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23 Sep 2021
Psychological Safety: The Secret Weapon of High-Performing Teams with Dr. Jessica Tonissen
00:48:56
This week, Pia and Dan discuss psychological safety with Dr Jessica Tonissen, leadership and wellbeing coach, Doctor of Psychology and Associate Director at InLightening in Melbourne.
Dr Tonissen dispels some of the myths and misunderstandings around the term, how psychological safety does not have to come at the expense of performance, and that there's a difference between safety and artificial harmony.
The conversation also touches on our ingrained fear of rejection, and how it stimulates our fight-or-flight response.
What can we learn from other animals? with Dr Beki Hooper
00:36:33
When Dr Beki Hooper began to study rhesus macaques, she found less-than-flattering similarities between monkey behaviour and human team structure.
In this fascinating discussion, Dr Beki takes us into the habitat of the rhesus macaque, giving us a first-hand glimpse into a hierarchy based on gender and tenure.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Many of us have experience in organisations that feel like they were governed in the same way as groups of macaques.
As humans, we should be able to break through these patriarchal, seniority-based structures.
Humans have behaviour equivalent to monkey grooming and preening.
Some of our relationships are built on who can advance us within our social structure.
Additionally, the bonds we build through grooming allow us to gain more information which we can use to advance our social standing, and to keep us safe.
We all carry our psychological histories on our backs, and the weight of those feelings can affect how we work within a team. We Not Me producer Mark Steadman began to understand this as he learned more about how his neurodivergence contributed to team dynamics.
Mark is a podcast producer, consultant, and coach. He works with individuals and small teams to help them access their potential to create impact, using their voice. He started his own community for changemakers and thought-leaders last year, fuelled by his love of connecting with other humans.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
We can examine our origin stories to understand how they inform our present.
We can try to see ourselves as evolving, rather than set in place.
Rather than wait for the messy parts of life to be over, be can be compassionate towards ourselves and be OK in notbeing OK right now.
If one member of a team isn’t working towards the common goal, they won’t succeed. Social entrepreneur David Burns sees that in the work he does to help strengthen teams, viewed through the prism of sport.
In his conversation with Pia and Dan, David highlights the importance of respecting and honouring people’s cultural values within teams, even at the risk of his work being misinterpreted r met with resistance.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
A challenge can be flipped from something you have to do, to something you get to do.
Legislating for a safe workplace - can it work? with Ian Bennett
00:40:50
How much responsibility do leaders have for the psychological safety of their teams? Aren’t psychological hazards an HR issue?
Recent changes in Australian law require employers to take steps to ensure not only the physical but also the psychological safety of their employees. This includes identifying and mitigating psychosocial hazards in the workplace, which can have a profound impact on employees' mental health. But what is “reasonable”?
This week's guest is Ian Bennett, a legal expert specialising in employment and safety law. He lends his expertise to discussions on workplace safety, specifically focusing on psychological safety and psychosocial hazards in the workplace.
Three reasons to listen
Understand new legislation that necessitates employers to ensure the physical and psychological safety of their employees, currently in place in Australia, but likely to spread
Learn about the implications of these laws for team leaders and what lessons can be drawn from this approach globally
Discover how to create healthy, productive workplaces where everyone still strives to do their best work
Episode highlights
[00:08:18] Expectations on employers to provide psychological safety
[00:13:40] How is new legislation being implemented?
[00:16:52] The Australian public's reaction
[00:20:29] What leaders should bear in mind
[00:24:57] What employees are entitled to
[00:27:06] Psychological safety in performance management
[00:30:15] The downsides of remote work and "always being on"
What happens when you grow a company from the ground up, and are then asked to leave? For entrepreneur Bart Foster, it meant reassessing his identity, and ultimately redefining himself.
After years spent as an intrapreneur within the corporate world, Bart founded his own health and wellness company and became an entrepreneur. Now he leads a company that helps teams think differently, get out of their comfort zones and into nature.
Key takeaways
Pay attention to the 70% of the bell curve in conversations.
We can make an intentional choice to pick the place we have for our conversations. It doesn’t always have to be in a meeting room.
What feels like a failure might just be a sign of us stretching our comfort zones.
Discomfort can be a good thing to seek.
The quality of the question drives the quality of the conversation.
Lessons in leadership from Fiji’s COVID response with Bernadette Welch
00:42:56
W\hen you’re managing a crises, you need well-structured governance and communication framework in place. This will ensure all stakeholders are on the same page and working towards the same goal. Empowering team members with knowledge and delegating tasks is key. But we also need to be willing to take charge and get things sorted out when resources or support are needed.
This week’s guest is Bernadette Welch, a retired public servant with a long career in Australia and Fiji. She coordinated Fiji's initial COVID response and organised the largest international meeting the country had ever hosted. She’s been the CEO 6,000-person organisation, and Permanent Secretary for Civil Service and Health in Fiji.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Well-structured governance and communications frameworks are essential when dealing with complex projects.
When you’re clear about your purpose and setup a climate of safety, people find it easier to work together because they can see and identify the boundaries.
“The discipline of the process creates freedom of choice.” – Solid structures allow for autonomy within individuals.
While effective leaders take responsibility, it’s important to strike a balance between protecting your team from distractions, and removing some of their potential agency.
When your business partner has a stroke with Gillian Coutts and Jenny Steadman
00:47:31
Life-altering events can reveal the strength and resilience of the human spirit, highlight the value of a supportive network, and reveal the power of compassion and understanding.
Both of this episode’s guests have had first-hand experience in this area. Returning to the podcast is Gillian Coutts, who suffered a stroke in 2022 and has been on a long road to recovery. By her side, along with Gillian’s husband Steve and her family, has been Gillian’s business partner, Jenny Steadman, who has dealt with her own serious health concerns.
This 100th episode is a testament to the power of the We Not Me spirit, and demonstrates what the combination of grit and grace can achieve.
Three reasons to listen
Hear a powerful story of resilience and recovery
Learn about the importance of teamwork and support networks during difficult times
Understand the impact of life-altering events on personal and professional relationships
Episode highlights
[00:10:37] Gill's life-changing moment
[00:18:08] What Gill experienced while in a coma
[00:20:20] Gill's journey of recovery
[00:27:03] The role of mindfulness in Gill's recovery
Harnessing the power of silence with Bastian Overgaard
00:44:21
Silence can have a profound impact on our relationships and productivity. By incorporating moments of silence into our interactions and meetings, we can create a sense of focus, concentration, and psychological safety.
Silence allows us to truly listen to each-other, deepen our understanding, and foster meaningful connections. It’s a powerful tool that can enhance team dynamics and promote effective communication.
This week's guest is Bastian Overgaard, author of the book Noise Free, consultant and teacher with a passion for promoting and facilitating silence in social interactions. Bastian believes that silence can enhance relationships, promote mindfulness, and create psychological safety. He conducts workshops and team-building exercises to help individuals and teams harness the power of silence for improved communication and collaboration.
Three reasons to listen
Discover the surprising benefits of incorporating silence into team dynamics and communication.
Learn how intentional moments of silence can enhance relationships, foster creativity, and improve decision-making.
Explore different types of silence, including restorative, relational, and reflective, and how to apply them in various settings.
Episode highlights
[00:09:07] Discovering the power of silence
[00:19:48] The danger of meetings without silence
[00:23:55] Equal speaking time
[00:29:14] Where and when to add silence to your meetings
[00:33:29] Where silence is being deployed right now
Actor Erik Thomson is no stranger to being part of a team, whether that be on the production set of a feature film or TV series. In his conversation with Dan and Pia, Erik discusses the importance of recognising everyone's role in a production, from lighting a scene to walking the red carpet at Cannes.
For Erik, building a solid working team is about breaking social barriers away from work. He emphasises the importance of clearing the eyeline so the actors can work distraction-free, and explores the role of psychological safety on set, especially when the action gets a bit more steamy.
Remote Leadership: Game-Changer or Pipe Dream? with Kevin Eikenberry
00:42:35
Effective leadership remains fundamentally the same regardless of location. It's the context that changes, not the core principles. The key is to think “leadership first, location second".
While the physical setting may vary, the essential aspects of human behaviour, interaction, and needs remain constant, making it crucial for leaders to maintain their foundational leadership skills while adapting to new working environments.
Kevin Eikenberry is an author, business owner, speaker, and podcaster. He co-wrote The Long Distance Leader and runs the Remote Leadership Institute. He’s been leading remote teams for about 15 years and specialises in remote and hybrid leadership training.
Three reasons to listen
Learn principles that remain relevant even as workplace dynamics continue evolving
Understand why many leaders push for return-to-office, through a compassionate lens
Discover how the pandemic transformed leadership practices, particularly in developing greater empathy and attention to individual team member circumstances
Episode highlights
[00:07:59] Writing The Long Distance Leader
[00:13:21] Why many leaders prefer to bring people back to the office
[00:18:05] Recapturing the magic
[00:21:57] The shifting social views of work in history
[00:24:35] Mindset and skillset for remote leadership
Organising teams for fast flow with Matthew Skelton
00:54:04
Organisational effectiveness isn't just about making team members more productive, but properly structuring teams and understanding how they work together.
Small teams with high trust can make decisions quickly and maintain better context of what they're building, while being mindful of the cognitive load placed on members.
Matthew Skelton is the author of Team Topologies. He developed patterns for team organisation and devops that were adopted by companies like Netflix and Accenture. His work focuses on how to structure teams effectively in organisations, particularly looking at concepts like team cognitive load and team interaction modes.
Three reasons to listen
Learn how small teams can achieve faster results and deliver value more effectively to users
Understand the principles behind Amazon's "two pizza team" approach, including how trust enables quick decision-making in small groups
Discover how organisations often lack self-awareness and how this becomes a major obstacle to their success
Episode highlights
[00:11:47] The road to Team Topologies
[00:17:18] Why collaboration is not the only answer
Sports teams have been evaluating their effectiveness for a long time, with the singular goal of improving performance. This week, Dan and Pia are joined by former Australian rugby player Owen Finegan, to look at the way businesses and not-for-profits can use data in the same way sport has for decades.
Owen played and coached professional rugby for 16 years before moving into the non-profit world, where he now sits as CEO of the Kids' Cancer Project. He took his learnings about honest – sometimes even brutal – feedback from the rugby pitch, and has adapted it to the way he leads teams, encouraging analysis combined with honesty and constructive feedback rather than criticism.
When we’re buried in our todo lists, we can lack the courage to take bolder choices. Amy Riley discovered this first-hand through her work helping leaders become more courageous.
Amy is an international best-selling author and keynote speaker who helps leaders fully step into their purpose. Her framework for courageous leaders is based on four pillars:
The courage to be authentically you
The courage to say what needs to be said
The courage to trust your leadership legacy
The courage to be bold and create the extraordinary
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Pressure and stress can drive us to isolate, when what we need to do is come together.
Burnout can lead us to find ways to distract ourselves from the fact we’re burned out.
Connecting and asking for help is difficult, so we tend to revert to more task-orientated work.
Team leaders need to use more active collaboration tools.
The Truth About Teams: A Candid Talk with Dan Hammond & Pia Lee
00:01:44
What makes a rockstar team? How can we work from anywhere? What part does connection play in today's world? Welcome to a brand new podcast, all about how humans connect and get stuff done together, presented by friends and colleagues Dan Hammond and Pia Lee.
Pia is the CEO of Squadify. She taught children and then wanted to find out what they did when they grew up, so became a leadership consultant.
After exploring engineering, Squadify Chief Product Officer Dan found analytical and people-focused joy in product management.
Subscribe now to hear new episodes of We Not Me, as soon as they're released.
27 Oct 2022
Building psychological safety: a how-to guide with Stephan Wiedner
00:43:29
Psychological safety is made up of a number of tiny interactions. Whether they be Slack messages, meetings, or emails, these forms of communication – and their responses – determine how likely someone is to speak up and share their ideas.
Stephan Wiedner is a psychological safety trainer, CEO, and volunteer firefighter. Stephan trains coaches to help create spaces where people feel free to speak up, with the confidence to know they’ll be heard.
Takeaways from Dan ad Pia
Attunement is about making sure everyone is on the right mental frequency, and not just assuming you’re on the “correct” setting and everyone else needs to adjust.
Focus on those micro moments of communication. Because without taking care of those micro interactions, problems can occur in the macro.
Effective dialogue is the one thing getting in the way of senior teams. Listening is a fundamental part of team communication, and it begins with curiosity. Without it, leadership can be a lonely pursuit with less diversity of thought.
Before heading up design and research at LIW, Andy Chevis was an HR director and a salesperson, and has taken his curiosity in how we communicate effectively through his career. In this episode, he shares some of the common – and very human – pitfalls we all fall prey to, and how we can bridge those gaps to hold space for fresh ideas.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Curiosity has a place at all levels in the System Team Self model.
Curiosity starts with us.
Ask yourself “what kind of person do you want to be?”
The jazz ensemble: the ultimate team? with Craig Scott
00:42:51
Professional double-bassist Craig Scott of the Sydney Conservatorium joins Dan and Pia to discuss the ultimate team: the jazz ensemble.
“There’s probably no better example of democracy than a jazz ensemble – individual freedom, but with responsibility to the group,” –Michelle Obama
Jazz improvisation follows a set of rules that enable creativity within a structure, so that out of a predictable pattern can come something different each time it’s performed.
Within an ensemble, each member might get their own moment to lead, by taking on the melody of the piece and expanding on it. The musician in the lead role can then signal, through their solo, that it’s time for another musician to take up that leadership role. This requires all members of the band to be listening, not just to the notes, but for other cues to lead or make space for others.
Building communities, the surreal way with Robin Hutchinson
00:44:02
“I don’t fit in”. It’s something everybody feels, at least at some point. We're all struggling to find our place. And if we let systems define us, we'll always be at odds with ourselves. But as Robin Hutchinson discovered, if we identify the situations where we feel more comfortable and can cope better, then we can take ownership of it all.
Robin describes himself as a very lucky person who has had opportunities come his way. His organisation, the Community Brain, creates playgrounds for adults that allow people to reconnect with joy and passion, and to have permission to be brilliant.
Robin believes that the joy of his imaginative events is taking people to a place of absurdity and allowing them to play, which changes their attitude towards where they live and brings communities closer together.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Engagement means that everyone involved is able to write a sentence for themselves in the story of the project at hand.
Robin’s organisation gives people “permission to be brilliant”.
He sets the bar for his team, but knows when to step aside when someone has a skill that can fill a gap.
We are bound together by the fact we all share different and unique challenges.
In any relationship, we must give 100% of ourselves. If we only give 50%, then the other person only gives 50%. We must contribute our whole selves.
Jackie Weaver became an Internet sensation in February 2022, when her handling of a parish council meeting – and the councillors’ reaction to it – went viral. But Jackie has decades of experience coaching teams of all sizes, which she shares with Dan and Pia.
Takeaways
It’s easy to overlook the amount of ground we share, when in disagreement.
Sometimes it takes a third party to help us see the common ground.
Experience can bring with it a degree of calmness when approaching difficult situations.
Jackie used her Internet fame as a platform to raise awareness of the work she and people like her do, across the country.
Effective teaming requires intentional design and can’t be achieved simply by putting people together on a project.
Teaming by Design emphasises the importance of embedding team effectiveness skills within the context of real work, rather than teaching it as a separate subject.
This approach recognises that valuable teaming skills are often developed through practical experience and reflection, rather than through theoretical instruction alone.
For this episode, Dan and Pia are joined in-person by Sara Beckman, who developed the concept of "teaming by design" while teaching MBA students. Sara works on integrating team effectiveness training into various courses, particularly in innovation, design, and new product development, and has conducted research on team dynamics, including studies at Hewlett Packard.
Three reasons to listen
To discover a unique approach to teaching teamwork called which embeds team effectiveness skills into project-based courses
To explore goal congruence and its critical role in team performance
To learn about the challenges of bringing about psychological safety in teams and how it relates to conflict management
Teams in adversity: lessons from war and politics with Senator Jim Milan
00:39:36
Jim Molan spent 40 years in the army from the age of 17. Since retiring from the army in 2008 as a Major General, he has written a book about his time in Iraq, co-authored policy on border-control, and consulted internationally. Jim is now a Senator for the Liberal Party in Australia.
When talking with Dan and Pia about how teams work together, Jim makes the observation that within the military, teams are formed and their work is rehearsed. He sets out his view on leadership within teams, and the importance of decision-making coupled with the ability to take criticism.
Move Fast, Adapt Faster: Agile in Action with Natalie Peters
00:35:58
Every member of a squad is of equal value, regardless of their department, seniority, or pay scale. It's important to check egos at the door when forming a squad and embarking on a new project. Those are some of the principles held by Natalie Peters, change and transformation lead at Australian bank NAB.
After 20 years working in HR, Natalie began exploring the world of agile project management and human-centred design. In this discussion with Pia and Dan, she debunks some of the common myths around agile, and runs through effective structures, which are typically flatter than more traditional or waterfall management styles.
Yes, Chef! Lessons from the professional kitchen with Simon Zatyrka
00:37:37
Kitchens – like any professional environment – need effective leadership. This means staying calm, promoting clear communication, and creating a learning environment where team members feel valued and motivated. Professional kitchens run well are the epitome of the We Not Me philosophy.
This week, Dan and Pia are joined by Simon Zatyrka, a former executive chef who’s spent most of his career in professional kitchens around the US. He’s the founder of the Culinary Mechanic, where he coaches chefs on leadership and building a positive culture in the kitchen, offering a mix of on-site and virtual consulting.
Three reasons to listen
To understand the importance of team building and development in high-pressure environments
To learn about the dynamics and leadership strategies used in professional kitchens
To discover how to create a productive and positive culture within a team
When you help people help, you help people hope. Gillian Coutts, Country Director at Potential Project discovered this when working within her community during Australia's border closing following the COVID outbreak. In her work, she saw teams come together in extraordinary ways, but she also shares findings from a UK study that has been replicated elsewhere, that show how we often see ourselves as having compassion, but not our neighbours.
In her discussion with Pia and Dan, Gillian explores the differences between empathy and compassion, and the importance of self-compassion to resilience.
What non-technical teams can learn from developers with Felipe Tabares
00:48:38
While there are plenty of stereotypes around software developers, the industry has innovated when it comes to teamwork and project management. Whether it’s methodologies like Agile or Lean, or simply recognising the competitive landscape employers are faced with, non-technical teams can learn a lot from how developers work together to get stuff done.
Felipe Tabares is the head of development at Squadify. He’s held various roles in innovation, engineering, project management, and people management, and teaches passionately from his own mistakes and learning experiences. In his discussion with Dan and Pia, he emphasises the need for teams to have a clear purpose, measurable goals, competent members, and a shared fate.
Three reasons to listen
To understand the challenges faced by development teams in a rapidly changing landscape
To learn about the importance of engagement and skill development in retaining talented developers
To discover strategies for fostering a culture of learning and knowledge sharing within teams
Episode highlights
[00:08:23] What makes development teams different
[00:16:01] How to move quickly in a fast-paced world of change
[00:21:46] Agile and Lean for non-development teams
[00:28:42] Developer to leader
[00:33:53] Creating a high-performing development team
Amid various models of team management, it’s important to remember that each of us is an individual player. We bring our own unique perspectives to our teams, and that sense of personal identity can bring tension when offset against the goal of the team.
James Prior, Global Head of Leadership Development at Gilead Pharmaceuticals, joins Dan and Pia to explore the symbiotic relationship between the individual and the team.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
If we’re open to diversity, we can build a richer understanding of how humans work.
Ambiguity needs to be addressed if it’s being ignored in pursuit of certainty.
When you don’t have a good work/life balance, you can begin to lose your identity outside of work. Joe Ryle discovered this during his work with the Labour Party, and it was partly this realisation that fuels his work today.
Joe Ryle is the Director of the 4 Day Week Campaign. He believes that a four-day working week provides positive benefits to society, wellbeing, and people’s mental health. And contrary to what many believe, it boosts productivity, rather than hindering it.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
There is a degree of privilege that should be acknowledged. Not everyone can afford to work a four-day week.
We need to break the mould of “x number of hours = y amount of productivity”.
The four-day week is a blunt instrument that can help us think less rigidly and more flexibly about how we use our time.
Boost team empathy & joy in the span of a lunch break with Mette Oscar Pedersen
00:29:33
What can you bring into the workplace that can significantly strengthen team bonds, enhance individual self-expression, and contribute to a healthier work environment?
Mette Oscar Pedersen is a facilitator who’s worked with communities, companies, and other groups to bring joy and connection to their work.
In this episode, you’ll
Learn how to increase connection and empathy in the workplace
Understand the benefits of incorporating joy into your daily routine
Discover ways to enhance your relationships with colleagues
Episode highlights
[00:07:36] Breaking down the fear of moving in public
[00:14:25] Strengthening community
[00:19:38] Long-lasting benefits with your colleagues
The world needs healthier models of masculinity. By incorporating diverse perspectives and acknowledging the impact of sociological, biological, and personal factors, we can work towards creating a more inclusive and compassionate understanding of masculinity. This can have a profound impact on the way teams work together.
Richie Hardcore is well known for his contributions to promoting healthier models of masculinity. Richie has a personal journey of healing and unpacking childhood trauma, which has shaped his work in understanding and addressing issues related to masculinity. He works as a speaker, mentor, and advocate, focusing on topics like consent, sexual and domestic violence, and mental health. Richie incorporates his background in combat sports to engage hard-to-reach audiences and facilitate conversations on healthy masculinity. He aims to challenge societal norms and encourage inclusive and compassionate understandings of masculinity.
Three reasons to listen
To understand the sociological, biological, and personal factors that shape our understanding of gender roles
To work towards a more inclusive and compassionate understanding of masculinity for healthier relationships
To learn about the challenges and work being done to address issues like violence against women and girls, mental health, and social dynamics related to masculinity
Episode highlights
[00:10:08] Why are men more prone to violence?
[00:15:57] Male aggression in team settings
[00:20:53] A new model of masculinity
[00:24:56] Multicultural attitudes towards masculinity
[00:28:18] The online push towards toxic masculinity
Rejoining the team after babies with Jessica Heagren
00:42:14
Workplaces need to provide better support and flexibility to parents coming back from having a child. And more needs to be done to redress the imbalance of working mums vs working dads.
Jessica Heagren is the founder of Careers After Babies, and an advocate for gender equality in the workplace, particularly for women coming back after maternity leave. Jess has conducted extensive research on the career impacts of having children and has published a report uncovering some surprising statistics that don’t all make for happy reading.
Three reasons to listen
Explore the challenges and solutions for women returning to work after maternity leave
Understand the impact of traditional gender roles on shared parental leave and workplace dynamics
Learn the importance of empathetic and inclusive line management in supporting working parents
Episode highlights
[00:10:54] The Careers After Babies report
[00:12:07] Gender pay gap
[00:13:57] Why only 15% of couples talk about who works
[00:16:25] The 7 themes from the report
[00:21:57] "Everyone's replaceable"
[00:25:51] What the next generation of parents holds for the worwkplace
Sales Teams, Listen Up: 3 Power Moves for Maximum Impact with Anna Britnor Guest
00:45:23
This week, Dan and Pia are joined by Anna Britnor Guest, who has over 30 years of technology sales experience and who now works to develop and coach salespeople within the SaaS industry.
They talk about whether sales "teams" are really teams and not just groups of people, pivoting the mantra of "don't lose alone" to "don't learn alone", and maintaining a common language around the sales process.
Anna also shares three key things teams can do right now to work more effectively to meet the customers' needs, and to meet their own needs.
Teams in disaster relief with Janet Boswell and Reid Boswell
00:33:13
Expertise can allow us to flourish in our comfort zones, but when thrust into a new environment, we have to rely on others. For Janet and Reid Boswell, what started as a parish-wide mission to bring aid to post-earthquake Haiti ended up as a mini industry, delivering medicine and dental care to the people of Haiti.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
The collaborative mindset was transferred from Haiti back home.
Reid had to let go of his need to control, in order to work within a team.
We need to journey outside of our comfort zones to discover what’s possible.
The Great Retention: how teams get people to stay with Suni Lobo
00:32:36
For Chief HR Officer Suni Lobo, psychological safety is key to teams feeling like they belong. It was put to the test during the pandemic, but her company’s ability to create a space where people felt able to do their best work, produced incredible results.
In her conversation with Dan and Pia, Suni discusses employee compensation and the minimal role it plays in job satisfaction when offset against a sense of belonging. Using concrete examples from Silicon Valley, Suni shares how organisations can build trust within teams, and underscores the importance of teammates having each-others’ backs.
Accident and emergency nursing involves managing and working with ever-shifting teams, with people joining temporarily who bring skill and knowledge, but aren’t familiar with the team’s inner workings. This is one of the challenges facing NHS nurse Andy Boocock.
Andy describes working, not only with his team in A&E, but when teams dovetail in emergency situations.
This conversation involves a discussion on and examples of gallows humour, involving stories of a medical nature.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
We can choose to help people or “mop around them”.
Fear of embarrassment should not stand in the way of us helping someone in need.
Building trust for when you really need it with Adam Verducci
00:36:36
Community policing runs on trust, no matter the location. That trust flows both ways, and can have its basis in something as simple as a common interest.
New Jersey police officer Adam Verducci and his squad are so well-connected that he knows when a situation is in progress just from the sound of a fellow officer’s voice on the radio. In his conversation with Dan and Pia, Adam walks us through a day in the life of a US police officer serving a relatively small town, where trust and connection come together to keep people safe.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Keeping a cool head can help keep a volatile situation from escalating.
The uniform denotes the job, but doesn’t give the wearer power.
What isn’t your team telling you? with Jeff Wetzler
00:37:54
There’s a wealth of untapped wisdom and information within our teams, but too much goes unspoken. By choosing curiosity, making it safe for others to share, and creating opportunities to ask and listen, we can access these insights, enrich our understanding, and improve our decision-making.
Jeff Wetzler is a human potential and learning expert with a background in business and education. His new book discusses how to tap into the expertise of those around us, and he joins Dan and Pia to share some of the key insights raised through his extensive research into team communication.
Three reasons to listen
Understand how the quality of your questions can impact the effectiveness of problem-solving within a group
Learn about ways to enhance communication and connection within teams
Discover how to tap into the hidden wisdom and expertise of people around you for unexpected breakthroughs
People often don't speak up in meetings out of fear, a sense of futility, a lack of confidence, or because they just can't be bothered. But active participation and speaking up can significantly advance visibility and career prospects. So leaders and participants alike need to take responsibility for making meetings meaningful and encouraging open communication.
Betina Szkudlarek is a professor in International Management at the University of Sydney Business School. Betina has conducted extensive research on why people often do not voice their opinions and what can be done to encourage people to speak up. In this episode, she shares findings from her research, and offers practical steps for both leaders and participants to ensure everyone’s voice is heard…not just the loudest.
Three reasons to listen
Understand the common reasons why people often refrain from speaking up in meetings and how it impacts team dynamics
Learn strategies to encourage active participation and meaningful discussions in meetings
Discover the importance of restructuring meeting formats to facilitate better engagement and contribution from all attendees
Episode highlights
[00:08:13] What Betina found in her research
[00:12:09] Common reasons people don't speak up
[00:15:34] Administrative bloat
[00:17:52] Disengagement in meetings
[00:22:16] Making space for introverts
[00:25:53] What participants can do in meetings
[00:29:55] How family dynamics play out in meetings
What will happen when AI joins your team? with Benjamin Dehant
00:34:03
AI has the potential to revolutionise collaboration and teamwork, but it has limitations and potential biases we need to watch out for.
Benjamin Dehant is a specialist with experience using AI in collaboration and teamwork settings. He believes that in the future, every team member will have their own AI assistant that will help us work faster and more efficiently. But with those tools come limitations, and he raises the question of whether we want AI to do everything for us – and make decisions in our best interests – or if we want to maintain the value of doing things ourselves.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Governments may not be adequately prepared for the impact of AI. We need proactive governance and preparedness.
We need to make a conscious choice when implementing AI, taking into consideration the potential benefits and risks, and regulating it in a way that benefits society as a whole.
A general AI that knows everything about an organisation can provide valuable insights and data, joining dots together quicker than humans can. This could fuel more efficient and effective collaboration within teams.
We must remain in charge of desired outcomes and not delegate responsibility to AI, especially given the potential for inaccuracies in AI-generated data.
AI is a useful tool for enhancing human decision-making, but we need to remain vigilant and responsible in the process.
How evolution affects groups of animals, including humans with Alex Thornton
00:40:47
The study of animal behaviour and evolution can provide a surprising insight into our own human behaviour and societal structures. By observing and understanding how animals interact with one another, we can learn more about the factors that shape the way we live and work together.
Alex Thornton is a Professor of cognitive evolution at Exeter University in the UK. He conducts experiments on animals – particularly birds of the crow family – to understand how behaviour and intelligence evolve. In his discussion with Dan and Pia, Alex draws some fascinating parallels between human behaviour and that of other animals, including evidence of democracy and compassion.
Three reasons to listen
To explore the evolutionary aspects of animal intelligence and the role of social interactions in shaping behaviour
To dive into research on crows and their complex societies, providing potential insights into human social dynamics
For a discussion on the impact of social media on human thinking and behaviour in the context of global conflicts
How to get more from your team conversations with Chris Ertel
00:52:22
Team conversations are more effective when there’s a safe space for open and honest communication. By creating an environment of trust, where team members feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and ideas, teams can have more productive and meaningful discussions. Building trust and promoting vulnerability are key factors in improving the quality of team conversations, but we have to go beyond lip service and recognise when people are holding back and keeping their true thoughts hidden.
This week, Dan and Pia are joined by Chris Ertel, a strategic conversation designer and a thought leader in how teams work. He has over 27 years of experience as a strategy and innovation consultant. He specialises in facilitating creative problem-solving sessions for teams, and is part of Deloitte Greenhouse, a specialised unit that focuses on designing and delivering strategic conversations.
Three reasons to listen
Learn how to create an environment that encourages team members to share their true thoughts and feelings during conversations
Understand the importance of building trust within teams to facilitate open and honest communication
Hear about the challenges teams face, along with strategies to overcome them in order to have more effective conversations
Episode highlights
[00:07:26] Observing team dynamics
[00:09:34] The importance of humour
[00:11:56] Holding a space for vulnerability
[00:14:43] The fundamentals of trust
[00:21:27] What else is there but teams?
[00:26:43] The four elements of teams
[00:28:02] Team Alchemy
[00:33:49] We all need coaching
[00:36:46] Improving team clarity
[00:41:52] Getting clarity on how a decision is made
What your team can learn from neurodiversity with Matthew Bellringer
00:37:04
Embracing neurodiversity can bring valuable perspectives, innovation, and organisational endurance to teams. By recognising the strengths that come with neurodivergent conditions, individuals and teams can benefit from a plurality of perspectives and explore new ways of thinking and working together.
Matthew Bellringer is a consultant, practitioner, speaker, and author who focuses on systems engineering, human systems, and ecosystems. They have a background in tech engineering but have always been interested in people more than technology. Matthew has ADHD and an adulthood autism diagnoses, and is a strong advocate for neurodiversity within teams. They are the chair of Neurodiverse IT, a group for neurodivergent IT professionals, and run their own community called Curious Being.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Team leaders must consider not only the individual benefits of diversity and inclusion, but also the significance of having diverse views within organisations. Organisations need to be adaptable and able to change and move with the times, rather than being brittle.
Time constraints can prevent meaningful conversations around neurodivergence from happening. By giving ourselves more time and space, more innovative ideas can be co-created. But in order to achieve this, we need to let go of our egos and be open to different viewpoints.
We can build a new team view from diverse perspectives in order to “go our own way together”. It's not just about having different opinions all the time; it's about using these perspectives to come to a better path as a team.
There may be those who, when under pressure, feel that the last thing they need is a “difficult person” coming up with alternative viewpoints. But those voices must be heard and engaged with.
We can also take the opportunity, and the time, to delve deeper into the assumptions underlying viewpoints, as it’s often at this level where we can resolve issues.
How to resolve workplace conflict with Tania Waters
00:45:45
Workplace conflicts can arise from the most unexpected things, and can have severe consequences. When conflicts arise, they need to be addressed quickly, with opportunities created for open communication and understanding.
Through effective mediation and a curiosity-driven approach, conflicts between team members can be resolved, ruptures can be repaired, and positive outcomes can be achieved.
This week, Dan and Pia are joined by workplace mediation and conflict resolution consultant, Tania Waters. Tania has extensive experience in helping organisations address workplace conflicts and facilitating mediations between parties.
She provides conflict management coaching, and specialises in creating safe spaces for open dialogue, understanding the perspectives and impacts of each party involved, and guiding them towards finding common ground.
Three reasons to listen
Understand the impact of workplace conflict on teams and their members, from passive-aggressive behaviour to the threat of physical violence
Learn about the importance of timely conflict resolution and the negative consequences of letting things simmer for too long
Discover the role of curiosity in the mediation process and how it can help to break down walls and challenge simplified narratives
A boarding school on the water – the unique team dynamics of yachting with Jens Lee
00:29:51
Whether you’re facing off against pirates or catering for celebrities, life on board a megayacht is about teamwork, reciprocity, and pulling your weight.
Jens Lee is a deck engineer who has spent the last five years working on various large vessels. Jens describes the adventure of a lifetime, including working on everything from small sailing bases to 100-metre megayachts, catering for world leaders and A-list Hollywood stars, and even meeting pirates. He explains that life on board is “like a floating boarding school”, with the captain acting as the headmaster and the crew living together and spending 24 hours in each other's company.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Bold choices can lead to exciting new paths.
Reciprocity is a key part of social capital within a team. This can be as simple as holding a door open for someone.
Corporations, small businesses, organisations, teams, even yacht crews face the same fundamental challenges of getting on and facing challenges together.
Why We Are Approaching Change All Wrong – And What to Do Instead
00:40:19
Most change initiatives fail because they focus solely on technical aspects like planning, roles, and measures, while neglecting the human element – particularly the need for people to understand why changes are happening and to feel heard throughout the process.
Jeffrey Wetherhold is a behavioral scientist who’s built his career around organisational change management. He transitioned from behavioural science to community health, and now runs his own change management consultancy.
This conversation will help you
Better understand why traditional technical change management approaches often fail
Recognise and address the most fundamental barrier to organisational change
Move beyond labels like "resistant" or "averse" and focus on different perspectives
Episode highlights
[00:07:46] Understanding change management
[00:11:21] When change feels weaponised
[00:13:04] Overcoming resistance to change
[00:15:05] Mmotivational interviewing.
[00:17:47] Where to begin having the change conversation
Keeping the peace when taking on a new leadership role with Jon Barnes
00:43:58
If you’re taking over as team leader, you need to have open and honest conversations about the change in dynamics. If you’ve previously enjoyed a friendly relationship and you’re transitioning from buddy to boss, or you’re filling someone else’s shoes, it’s time to show humility, honour the past, embrace an uncertain future, and accept feedback from your team.
This week, adaptive organisations consultant Jon Barnes rejoins the podcast. Jon helps organisations shift from rigid hierarchies or bureaucracies towards teams that manage themselves, promoting more autonomy. He’s a fan of working styles where individuals have more freedom but are also more accountable, and he focuses on helping groups collectively nurture the culture they want, together.
Three reasons to listen
Understand how to handle the "buddy to boss" transition by establishing a new social contract with your team
Explore ways to maintain mutual respect and equality in relationships, even when hierarchical structures are in place
Learn specific techniques for scheduling, giving and receiving feedback, in order to shape a constructive leadership style
Episode highlights
[00:07:42] The budy-to-boss problem
[00:18:38] The perils of bringing in an outside team whisperer
International assignments in business require careful preparation, adaptability, and a focus on making a positive impact rather than just “making your mark”.
Success in foreign assignments often comes from reinforcing and amplifying existing strengths within an organisation, rather than attempting to overhaul everything.
Kevin Asher is a leader, strategist, and innovator in healthcare. He’s worked primarily in the pharmaceutical industry, including medical communications, data generation, and patient group support. He’s a self-described problem-solver, and he joins Dan and Pia to discuss his recent assignment in Italy.
Three reasons to listen
To learn how to successfully navigate international assignments and make a positive impact
To understand the importance of effective communication and bridging gaps between global and local teams
For new approaches to add value quickly in new, challenging situations – even when facing language barriers or unfamiliar systems
Episode highlights
[00:09:10] Preparing to go on an assignment
[00:12:34] Making your mark
[00:14:36] Improving communication in a restructured team
[00:21:21] What Kevin would do differently
[00:23:07] Finding the right time to make a big decision
[00:25:15] Re-entry
[00:28:53] Kevin's advice for starting a new assignment
Transitioning to a senior leadership role with Iain Gauld
00:39:07
A successful transition to leadership calls for a significant shift in mindset. Not only do you need to enhance your existing skills, but also adopt new ones and let go of habits that may have earned you you success in the past.
A transitioning leader understands the importance of team dynamics, makes space for collaboration, evolves their leadership style, and embraces continuous learning.
This week, Dan and Pia are joined by Iain Gauld, the Chief Information Officer at Contact Energy in New Zealand. With a background in computer science, Iain started his career in tech with the intention of effecting change. Over time, he transitioned into team leadership and management roles, continuously learning and growing as he did so.
Three reasons to listen
To learn about the transformation process from a technical role to a leadership role in a team
To understand the dynamics of team building beyond technical skills
To discover how to apply principles of Agile approach to enhance leadership skills
Teams Unleashed: Thriving in a Work-From-Anywhere World with Michelle Zimany
00:35:59
Empathic leadership is what's needed in a globally-distributed workforce, and replacing water-cooler moments isn't as simple as organising more mandatory Zoom calls.
This week, Dan and Pia talk remote collaboration with Sydney-based Michelle Zimany, Human Resources leader for the pharmaceutical company Sanofi. They discuss the loss of spontaneity and serendipity in the age where people only meet on Zoom, and missing those moments to have a quick chat while getting a coffee.
Michelle shares some of the events she's running and participating in within her organisation, to help people feel more connected without a feeling of enforced fun. She, Pia and Dan discuss the change in attitudes to work attire, and how rigid corporate thinking has given way to understanding and tolerance, now that so many of us are sharing our homes virtually.
Generative leadership in teams with Kathleen Curran
00:47:12
There is a void of leadership following the pandemic, and everything feels uncertain. That uncertainty – precarity – is an area of study for generative leadership specialist Kathleen Curran.
Kathleen defines herself as an “explorer with purpose”, and helps people not only bring their whole self to work, but fully inhabit it. She is a co-author on a book about precarity, with her contribution focusing on the word of certainty and normalcy that opened in the wake of the global pandemic.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
The void in leadership opened by the pandemic is still in place today.
It’s sometimes necessary for those without traditional leadership positions to step up, to do the work that needs to be done.
There is a disconnect in the communication of our need for connection, between anecdotal conversations and data collected on teams.
Agile isn’t just for software teams – its principles can be effectively applied to HR and other business teams, offering a pragmatic approach to improving workflow and efficiency.
It goes beyond flexible working or nimble decision-making, representing a philosophy and set of principles for getting work done more effectively.
Nebel Crowhurst is the Chief People Officer at Reward Gateway, and has extensive experience in HR. She’s worked across a variety of industries, helping teams understand and transition to Agile.
Three reasons to listen
For a pragmatic approach to implementing Agile principles in HR and business teams
To discover how Agile can help teams prioritise work, reduce friction, and improve efficiency in meetings
To explore the benefits and potential challenges of applying Agile methodologies outside of traditional software development
Episode highlights
[00:08:46] Revisiting engagement surveys
[00:13:40] What Agile is and is not
[00:17:30] What Agile looks like in practice
[00:22:08] Handling Agile scepticism (including your own)
Autonomy: striking the right balance with Jon Barnes
00:45:36
A workplace with autonomy isn’t a utopia where everyone does whatever they want. Autonomy is a journey towards balancing freedom and choice with responsibility and accountability. It needs leaders to facilitate and coaches, and means adopting tools and processes that enable self-regulation.
Jon Barnes is a consultant who has devoted most of his professional life to autonomy and self-managed teams. He helps organisations move towards self-management by coaching teams and working one-on-one with CEOs. For Jon, autonomy is about empowering teams and individuals to make decisions and take ownership of their work while fostering a culture of trust and collaboration.
Three reasons to listen
Gain insights into the concept of autonomy and what it truly means in a workplace setting.
Understand the myths and misconceptions surrounding autonomy and self-management.
Learn about different decision-making processes and their effectiveness in organizations.
Episode highlights
[00:10:57] What is autonomy, and what is it not?
[00:14:18] Who benefits from autonomy?
[00:16:16] What decision-making processes realy work?
[00:19:23] Challenges for autonomous team leaders
[00:22:44] Challenges for autonomous team members
[00:32:50] How our need for agency changes over time
[00:37:27] Getting started with creating an autonomous team
Teams need to prioritise creating and maintaining clarity, especially during times of disruption and uncertainty. While purpose and shared goals have held steady in Squadify’s latest Team Tracker data, the importance and presence of more granular aspects like a clear plan and measures of success have dropped, creating a significant clarity gap.
Juliet Hammond joins Dan and Pia to discuss how teams need to focus on defining short-term priorities, experimenting, and reflecting in order to stay aligned and effective in a rapidly changing environment.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Teams can create a holistic map for their outcomes, by setting a clear purpose and strategy, along with interdependency and prioritisation choices.
By creating a shared purpose, organisation can bring their teams together and avoid burdening senior leaders with the responsibility of coordinating everything.
Most teams are merely groups of people, rather than coordinated units.
Flexibility is important when setting goals, and while clarity is key, goals should be held lightly and be subject to change while still ensuring that everyone knows what they’re working towards.
Being overwhelmed by ambiguity and finding it difficult to land on a goal is a natural human reaction. But it's important to seek clarity by focusing on what is undeniable and to make micro adjustments to avoid sailing down the wrong route for too long.
For civil engineering General Manager Lucy Hovanec, purpose can breathe life into teams, and in order to lead, self-knowledge is crucial.
In this discussion, Lucy shares with Dan and Pia her toolkit for working with teams across cultural divides and around the world, to help them wake up excited to come to work:
Asking questions to make sure everyone is aligned on the task at hand
Assessing the climate of a team and creating conditions for success
Using the Example, Impact, Change model of delivering feedback
Connecting together in 2023 with Amy Riley and Stephan Wiedner
00:41:23
Is the balance of power shifting from employee to employer? Is AI in danger of reducing our willingness to connect as humans, or could it give us more opportunities for expression?
Dan and Pia are joined by previous guests Amy Riley and Stephan Wiedner to share their predictions for 2023, and what we can all do to create spaces where people come together to get stuff done.
Predictions from 2023
From Pia: The social fabric of humanity to affect change will become more important.
From Amy: Employees are going to need and expect more flexibility in their environments. This will meet resistance but will shift to acceptance.
From Stephan: Recent tech redundancies will shift the power from the individual back to organisations, who’ll require more in-office work and a reduction in salaries.
From Dan: The shift from remote to in-office working will vary depending on sector, with different sectors having different needs and expectations of how people come together to work.
Tips for facing 2023
From Amy:
Every person in an organisation needs to be a keeper of the culture.
We all need to leverage each-other’s strengths: what people are good at and what they’re interested in.
From Stephan:
Psychological safety is how we make it easier to share, talk about, and learn from mistakes.
Become a bystander in team conversations so you can look at them from a distance and notice where the team is getting stuck.
Teams: Why They Make or Break Everything with Rob Metcalfe
00:41:55
Dan and Pia speak to Rob Metcalfe – a former commando now leadership consultant and team coach – about significant performance challenges, how groups of people need to work proactively together to solve them, and how important social capital can be in fostering team effectiveness.
When Becky Malby discovered that her local water provider was dumping raw sewage into the nearby river on a regular basis, she was outraged. So she helped setup a citizen science project to test the local water and found that it was full of dangerous pollutants, contradicting the study the water company had conducted which labeled the river water safe enough to drink.
Becky helps GPs within the NHS understand where the gaps are between those needing primary care and those who are making and getting appointments. As well as discussing bathing water status, Becky also outlines some of the systemic issues with primary care in the UK, and how she’s helping practises address them.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
If you approach a complex problem with a simple answer, you might end up worsening the situation.
Humans need to connect differently to work against decisions made for the pursuit of shareholder profits.
How to hybrid: tips from a long-distance team with Juliet Owen
00:38:00
For the first time in over a thousand days of Squadify and forty episodes of the podcast, Dan and Pia are in the same room, and are joined by Juliet Owen, to discuss findings from a recent analysis on Squadify data.
Squadify works by asking team members to fill in a survey at the start and end of a particular period. Participants rate the importance of a series of conditions for team success, and then later return to record the presence of those conditions.
Key findings
Teamwork is a more important condition for hybrid teams than it is for those that work face-to-face.
Hybrid teams tend to be more task and transaction focused.
Not being together is allowing us to become more easily distracted.
Hybrid team communication can sometimes lead to fear of missing out.
What hybrid teams should focus on
Creating psychological safety
Using the right technology to enable better communication and avoid distraction
Keeping communication clear, so that everyone shares the same understanding
What is the data telling us about psychological safety? with Juliet Owen
00:31:59
the latest dataset from Squadify reveals how teams rate psychological safety. Juliet Owen joins Dan and Pia to go through the numbers and add some context.
Carl Rogers defines psychological safety as an individual feeling unconditional worth. This forms the basis of the movement, continued on by Amy Edmondson who defines it as a shared belief held by team members that the team is safe for interpersonal risk-taking. Timothy Clark's model defines four stages of psychological safety: inclusion safety, learner safety, contributor safety, and challenger safety.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Team leaders should recognise that feeling psychologically safe may be biased towards individuals with high status. It's a common mistake to assume everyone can speak their minds freely.
We need to reimagine how to create personal connections within a hybrid environment, both virtually and face-to-face. If we don't, the foundation of psychological safety will be compromised.
Challenger safety might be seen as a momentum killer and a pain. However, it's important for leaders to take on challenges. The comfort levels of the team leader themselves play a big role in creating a sense of safety for their teams. And doing so without being controlling can be difficult.
Difference Makes the Difference: Sahera Sumar on Real Team Diversity
00:29:41
For global leadership consultant Sahera Sumar, "diversity is a fact, but inclusion is the mindset", and it's possible for teams to be diverse but not inclusive.
Sahera felt like she denied her heritage in order to feel accepted and fit in at work. Many organisations run programmes to try and combat unconscious bias, but this is only the start of the journey, and there's much more work to do to foster inclusivity within teams.
As part of her work as a leadership consultant, Sahera builds on the foundation of unconscious bias training, and helps move people from a space of judgement to awareness and understanding, and then onto acceptance.
From the frontline of firefighting with Sandy Quirinale
00:34:13
Pia and Dan are joined by former corporate worker and now voluntary firefighter Sandy Quirinale.
After her second son became interested in the fire service as a teenager, Sandy decided to sign up. She’s currently the only active female firefighter at her rural New Jersey station, and so brings her insight into diversity and teamwork within this highest-of-pressure situations.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Diversity allows for us to pick the right person for the job within a team.
That in turn helps people feel less like they need to hold on to a specific task.
Improvising and thinking outside of the box isn’t appropriate in every situation, and for every team. There is benefit to sticking with tried-and-tested methodologies.
Meet a psychologically safe, high-performing organisation with Lee Geary and Rebecca Pinkstone
00:53:45
Creating a psychologically safe and high-performing organisation means focusing on both performance and wellbeing. Organisations need to foster a culture of learning and development, building strong leadership capabilities, and prioritising psychological safety at all levels. By balancing the delivery of services and outcomes with the support and wellbeing of staff, organisations can make a tangible difference in the lives of their clients while maintaining a positive and productive work environment.
Rebecca Pinkstone is the CEO of Bridge Housing, a community housing provider in Australia. With a background in community development and a passion for providing safe and affordable homes, Beck leads the organisation in its mission to make a tangible difference in people's lives.
Lee Geary is the Executive Director of People, Culture and Brand at Bridge. With a career focused on capacity building and organisational development, Lee is responsible for cultivating a psychologically safe and high-performing culture within the organisation.
Through learning and development initiatives, data-driven decision-making, and leadership development, Bridge ensures that its employees have the skills and support needed to deliver quality services to their residents.
Three reasons to listen
For a refresher on psychological safety and to learn about its place within high-performance teams
For practical insights and strategies for building a psychologically safe work environment
To hear real-life examples and experiences from Beck and Lee on their journey of creating a psychologically safe and high-performing organisation
Episode highlights
[00:02:01] Meeting Rebecca & Lee
[00:11:39] The challenges of social housing
[00:14:26] How Bridge maintains a high sense of wellbeing
[00:18:25] Getting buy-in and engagement from across the team
[00:22:46] Setting values and aligned behaviours
[00:28:32] Legislation around psychosocial hazards
[00:32:02] Challenger safety
[00:37:04] The management operating system
[00:43:54] Practical steps to implementing Bridge's principles
Building the right team culture with Kevin Brownsey
00:41:29
Dan and Pia explore creating safe cultures for people to thrive, with consultant Kevin Brownsey.
Kevin is the CEO of Red Pill Consulting, a company that tries to help organisations change their culture. While some organisations strive for a “winning culture”, Kevin defines culture as the “beliefs that underpin the behaviours that drive the outcomes, not the outcomes themselves.”
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Think about how we set the tone as team members or leaders.
Are you standing by and letting things slip?
“We’re not innately evil, but we do take shortcuts”.
Don’t shy away from discussing questions of culture.
This applies to family as well as work.
Be prepared to make transformations yourself.
Cultural change looks simple, but takes courage.
15 Nov 2024
Helping tech rockstars lead rockstar teams at Cisco with Rob Dinsmore
00:37:41
Effective leadership in tech means crafting a collaborative culture where growth happens through real-world challenges and strong interpersonal connections – not individual technical accomplishments.
Rob Dinsmore has an extensive background in leadership and team development, particularly in technical organisations like Cisco. He built a highly regarded programme for top engineering talent, helping these specialists expand their leadership skills and integrate them across the company to produce meaningful, business-driven outcomes.
Three reasons to listen
To find out how to enable technical leaders to work effectively as a team
To learn why leadership for technical experts is as much about collaboration and influence as it is about technical proficiency
To hear how Cisco integrated senior technical leaders across departments, forming partnerships that transformed business initiatives
Hacking Team Development: The Insider’s Playbook with Jennifer Dulski
00:44:12
Most managers are unprepared for their roles, with 82% having no management training at all. Effective team leadership needs structured, accessible tools to help managers build psychological safety, connection, and engagement with their teams.
Jennifer Dulski is the founder and CEO of Rising Team, a software-guided interactive learning platform for managers to develop their teams. Rising Team helps leaders build insights and deeper connections with their teams through structured development kits and short sessions that can be conducted virtually or in-person.
Three reasons to listen
Learn how software is helping managers develop their teams more effectively
Understand how to measure and improve psychological safety, connection, engagement, and retention in teams
Discover practical tools for team development that work for both office teams and frontline workers
Episode highlights
[00:10:01] Rising Team
[00:21:26] The four Cs of developing leaders
[00:23:20] The increase in overwhelming challenges faced by managers
[00:26:50] "Can every manager really do it?
[00:29:50] Making space for different cognitive styles and skillsets
Pia and Dan are joined by Martin Bromiley OBE, airline captain, charity trustee, and public speaker whose story of loss has fuelled much of the work he does today.
In 2005, Martin’s wife Elaine was admitted to hospital following an emergency that occurred while she was under anaesthetic. During the investigation into her death, Martin identified that Elaine’s death was due to failures in the way the surgical staff operated as a cohesive team.
Now, using his experience within aviation, he works with organisations to help teams get things right in critical situations.
If your team can’t communicate across a hierarchy, you risk fragmentation.
If you can anticipate that there will be challenges, you can help calm your inner chimp.
Asking open questions help you to learn, not just those junior to you.
30 Mar 2023
Building a thriving culture from the outside in with Marcus Swalwell
00:45:14
When companies put the customer at the heart of their business and empower employees to improve the customer experience, they form stronger relationships with satisfied customers.
Marcus Swalwell and Tom Wedge worked together at a large optometry firm, owned by Novartis. They transformed the company by putting customers at the heart of the business, using a variety of methods from forming a virtual board of directors made up of customers, to encouraging employees to work in customers’ shops so they could see the business from their perspective.
By implementing these practices, they improved their customer relationships and become the supplier that customers most wanted to do business with.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Customer focus can galvanise an organisation from the outside in.
Involving everyone in crafting the vision can lead to a real sense of ownership and accountability.
Metrics can drive employees to achieve customer-centric goals.
A culture of positivity and customer centricity can improve climate.
Personal development can help create a common language and mindset without requiring excessive funding.
Employees are often let down by the conditions behind them, rather than their own competence.
Psychological safety: how are teams doing? with Juliet Hammond
00:35:02
Lots of teams are struggling when it comes to implementing psychological safety – particularly in areas like straight-talking, listening to each other, and challenger safety. Building psychological safety requires open and honest communication, a willingness to embrace conflict, and a shared understanding of how the team works together. Getting the right balance of healthy conflict and “just being nice” is core to building a safe team.
Joining Dan and Pia this week is Squadify business analyst Juliet Hammond, who breaks down the latest figures from Squadify’s data on team performance.
Three reasons to listen
To gain insights into the concept of psychological safety and how it impacts team performance.
To learn about the different levels of psychological safety and how they contribute to team dynamics.
To understand the importance of challenging and straight-talking within a psychologically safe team environment.
Episode highlights
[00:04:14] What is psychological safety?
[00:09:37] What Squadify measures
[00:11:37] What teams are recognising
[00:17:55] 44% of people experiencing stress
[00:22:12] A leader's role in fostering psychological safety
How do we create moments to reset? Just like a Formula 1 car pulling into a pitstop, slowing down and stopping completely in order to win a race – how can we create moments of mental and emotional rest during our working days?
Simon Shepard is the CEO of Optima-life. He helps teams understand themselves better as individuals, and the role their physiologies play in their performance. Simon shares his frameworks for helping people understand the messages their body might be sending them. One of them includes a way to measure the stresses of the last week, by scoring events on a scale of difficulty and multiplying them by the emotional impact they had.
Dan and Pia’s takeaways
A heart rate variability monitor may help you understand what affects your sleep patterns.
Taking a pitstop is more effective than trying to push on through burnout.
Real transformation comes from more than just money. Jim Goddard believes that investing time, talent, and treasure into community movements is the key to success. His leadership style reflects this philosophy and encourages volunteers to take an active role in making a difference.
Jim Goddard has dedicated two decades to leading volunteers, transitioning from engineering to purposeful living. He advises leaders and organizations on purposeful, sustainable leadership, focusing on communication, collaboration, and accountability. He works to create a culture of shared mission and purpose, essential for successful volunteer teams.
Content warning: This episode contains a brief mention of suicide.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Through stripping back ego and connecting with purpose, we can learn to lead teams of volunteers and do greater good.
Jim clarified purpose and vision for his team, and connected it to each member, inspiring them to work together.
People bring their own intrinsic reasons for wanting to volunteer, which may simply be about connecting with other humans.
Lightning Clarity: Turbocharging Teams with Todd Schroeder
00:44:47
Google iterates in 30-minute increments, which is part of why this massive company is able to innovate so quickly at scale. This involves making mistakes, but recovering and correcting quickly. The pace at Google is a far cry from the stereotypical image of people lying around on beanbags or playing foosball.
As Managing Director for Global Public Sector Strategy and Sales at Google, Todd Schroeder has to work across multiple teams who are serving markets at different stages along the maturity curve. This means the idea of clarity can change from a traditional sense of certainty into becoming clear that things are uncertain.
In the midst of a global pandemic, the job of leading multiple teams moved from knowing what to do, to finding out what to do.
Dan, Pia and Todd discuss the process a new Google employee (a "noogler") goes through to becoming a full-fledged Googler, and some of the challenges they face along the way.
25 Jul 2024
The 5 things every team should do to be more effective with Professor Peter Hawkins
00:32:28
Effective leadership means understanding the needs of all stakeholders, not just your team members. When teams broaden their thinking to their customer base, to the wider ecology, and even to future generations, they make more effective decisions.
Professor Peter Hawkins has a lifetime of experience working on systemic team coaching, leadership development, and organisational change. He’s a pioneer in integrating strategic and culture change along with leadership development, and he emphasises the importance of connecting personal, team, organisational, and ecological levels of change.
Three reasons to listen
Learn about systemic team coaching and how to effectively integrate stakeholder perspectives into team dynamics
Understand the importance of collective purpose in team development and how it drives effective collaboration and learning
Explore the concept of the pracademic, and the value they bring to team coaching environments
Episode highlights
[00:07:26] Finding the learning edge
[00:09:42] As practical as a good theory
[00:11:04] Minimum stakeholder map
[00:14:32] Leadership is a team sport
[00:16:21] The 5 disciplines of highly effective teams
[00:19:29] Where does psychological safety fit in?
[00:22:12] What can you uniquely do that the world of tomorrow needs?
[00:24:13] Reframing how we tackle problems and people
Season 3 review: head, heart and guts with Dan Meek
00:53:11
Leadership is equal parts head, heart, and guts. Joining Dan and Pia to look back on an inspirational third season of We Not Me is CEO of LIW, Dan Meek.
If you look after your employees, your customers will be happier, and you’ll make more money. That’s the hypothesis Matt Phelan took, inspired by Richard Branson. But with that hypothesis in place, where’s the data to back it up?
Before founding the Happiness Index, Matt began working with animals, then studied marketing, starting his own digital marketing agency just before the 2008 financial crash. As someone used to tracking the efficacy of digital campaigns, he began to explore how the assumption that happier employees meant more money could be proven.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Relationships are the primary driver of happiness.
Humans have set points – almost predetermined levels of happiness we return to, after a peak or a trough.
Bring a happy person into an unhappy team, and that person’s happiness will dip.
To build better relationships, we need to express our emotions.
Connecting to heal with Kristy Thomas and James Thomas
00:36:36
Husband-and-wife team Kristy and James Thomas have both suffered profound and untimely loss in their lives. But from that grief, they have been able to create a charity that impacts the lives of children all around Australia who are dealing with grief.
The Thomas’ charity Feel the Magic brings children to Disneyland and puts on regular Camp Magic events, providing much-needed respite from and support throughout the grieving process. Their camps focus on four core values of empathy, empowerment, growth, and connection – this last value being something they discovered as they witnessed how mentors not only changed kids’ lives, but vice versa.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
“Giving” means more than giving money. It may mean giving a piece of yourself, your time, and your energy.
The grieving experience is unique, making individual support all the more important.
The workplace needs a rebrand. Design lead Doug Shapiro asked himself “If we didn’t feel like we had to drag ourselves to an office, would we feel differently about it?”
Just like those pieces of broccoli our parents made us eat as kids – that most of us later realise is not only good for us, but tasty – a work space can be prepared or presented badly
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
A place can shape how we bring ourselves to work as individuals, and as members of a team.
Work is in a state of flux around place, with the balance of power shifting between employers and employees.
In order to flourish and get things done together, we need to look at our individual needs without becoming too individualistic in our thinking.
Imposter syndrome and its effect on teams with Clem Pickering
00:40:30
Imposter syndrome is a common psychological pattern many of us experience. It makes us doubt our achievements, or feel like we’re going to be exposed as a fraud. Imposter syndrome is usually only experienced by high performers, but there are techniques and mindset shifts that can help us, if not “cure” imposter syndrome, then at least manage it.
Clem Pickering is a coach and specialist in the area of imposter syndrome. He has a background in tech, and focuses on supporting leaders in the tech space enhance their people skills and increase their impact. Dan and Pia share their personal experiences with imposter syndrome, and together with Clem explore its prevalence, discuss the impact it has in the workplace, and uncover ways to manage it.
Three reasons to listen
Learn the differences between imposter syndrome and self-doubt
Understand how imposter syndrome affects high-performing people and its prevalence across genders
Discover coping mechanisms and strategies for dealing with imposter syndrome
Episode highlights
[00:08:15] What is imposter syndrome?
[00:13:10] Imposter syndrome vs self-doubt
[00:16:00] Imposter syndrome and gender
[00:18:23] Settling your imposter
[00:22:39] Normalising imposter syndrome within teams
Diversity and inclusion: lessons from West Africa with Sahera Sumar
00:36:03
Building a diverse and inclusive culture is a complex challenge, especially in a geographically and culturally diverse environment. It takes a common set of values and behaviours to be established across the organisation, as well as a focus on communication, respect, and empowerment.
But while diversity is invaluable, it doesn’t create equity and inclusion. Creating equity means addressing systemic issues and biases that may affect certain groups more than others. And support for people from less advantaged backgrounds needs to be in place to allow them to thrive.
Sahera Sumar is a leadership consultant who specialises in inclusive leadership and building inclusive cultures. She has worked in both the corporate and non-profit sectors and has a passion for understanding and unpacking leadership in different cultural contexts. She currently works with a steel company located in 10 different countries within Africa, where she focuses on diversity and inclusion and strengthening the leadership capacity of the organisation.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Rather than try and understand the myriad and minute differences between various cultures, stick to a simple code of conduct. “Instead of many rules, have one behaviour.”
Central to working with people from different backgrounds is appreciation and acceptance. These are two of Sahera’s five As.
Starting with shared values and behaviours can lead to a long-standing and collaborative team environment.
AI technology has the potential to enhance team dynamics and human relationships… if used thoughtfully. In this episode, Dan and Pia explore how AI can help with team communication and collaboration, while raising questions about finding the right balance between AI assistance and maintaining genuine human connection.
For this episode, Dan and Pia are joined by ChatGPT, using OpenAI's advanced voice technology to participate in the conversation and provide answers to questions. ChatGPT is assisted by Squadify’s Chief Technology Officer Ian Smith.
Three reasons to listen
Explore the challenges of hybrid teams and practical strategies for maintaining effective communication when team members work from different locations
Discover approaches for transforming groups from "Teams in name only" into truly collaborative teams that achieve shared goals
See where ChatGPT excels and falls down when answering questions (and how well it can maintain accents)
Episode highlights
[00:10:41] The challenges faced by hybrid teams
[00:12:42] Teams in name only
[00:15:11] Dealing with difficult team members
[00:19:38] The ideal size of a team
[00:21:07] Challenges faced by cross-functional teams
Disaster relief, community engagement and being an asset not a liability with Gaz Breen
00:45:37
In times of crisis, community collaboration can be a powerful force for relief efforts.
Gaz Breen's coordinated efforts during the 2022 Burringbar floods demonstrated the importance of identifying our strengths and assets to contribute to a larger effort. Pia witnessed the recovery efforts that Gaz organised, and in their conversation, they discussed the significance of being an asset rather than a liability when facing difficult situations.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
In a disaster, every team member's contribution is essential. By recognising and utilising individual strengths, the team can work together more effectively to achieve their goals.
It's essential to ruthlessly exclude anything that doesn't help, and prioritise effectively. By doing this, individual strengths can be recognised and utilised, allowing the team to work together more effectively towards.
All team members have an opportunity, and a responsibility, to match their own skills to the wider needs of the team.
If your higher intent is clear, what some might call disobedience, others would call innovation.
Diverse teams need integration and synergy, not simply combining different people together.
Putting differences aside to improve local democracy with Peter Macfadyen
00:55:00
Local activism and community engagement can lead to significant changes in local politics, but such change doesn’t come easy. A paucity of community engagement, a serious lack of trust, the need for diversity – these and many other issues can become barriers to change.
But this week’s guest, Peter Macfadyen, has proven that with perseverance, open communication, and a clear vision for positive change, these challenges can be overcome to create a more effective, participatory and community-driven local government.
Three reasons to listen
To gain insights into the power of local activism and community engagement in driving political change.
To discover the significance of grassroots movements, citizen empowerment, and challenging traditional political structures.
To learn about the transformative potential of creating a more democratic and effective local governance system.
Episode highlights
[00:07:41] British attitudes to death
[00:13:58] The story of Flatpack Democracy
[00:27:12] Mistakes made early on in the transition
[00:31:19] Establishing a lasting change
[00:37:10] Finding hope amid political division
[00:43:43] Bringing people together
[00:48:57] Don't improve the system - build a new one
What Simon Sinek could learn about irony in teams with Richard Claydon
00:51:35
There are plenty of leadership “gurus” who can simplify complex topics. But how often do we consider the accuracy of their statements? Lots has been written about the purpose movement, but there’s another approach: embracing the absurdity of our current situations, and holding up a mirror to them.
Irony in teams can give us an interesting perspective on performance and management, and can be a vital bonding agent within teams. Dr Richard Claydon has done extensive research on organisational irony and its role in leadership. He teaches leadership programmes and has developed facilitation techniques to help people learn and develop leadership skills in a practical way. And he challenges some of the received wisdom of “gurus” many hold in high esteem.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Not all of us can find purpose in our work, so we seek it elsewhere. And trying too hard to find purpose in your work – and not following your own intrinsic purpose – can lead to difficulties.
Richard challenges some of the claims and statements Simon Sinek makes – from an academic’s point of view – but the fact that it resonates with so many people can’t be ignored.
When faced with absurdity – or with things being taken too seriously – the key is to face it with a wry smile. Just don’t take it to the point of sarcasm.
There can be comfort in finding people who share your ironic take on things.
Leadership can be dark – it’s not always plain sailing.
Toxic workplaces can have a devastating impact on individuals' mental health and wellbeing. Leaders need to create positive and supportive work environments where employees feel valued, heard, and safe.
Building trust, fostering open communication, and addressing any signs of toxicity quickly are key to preventing the harmful effects of a toxic workplace. Empathy and active engagement are key in understanding team members’ needs and concerns. By prioritising the wellbeing of employees, organisations can cultivate a healthier and more productive work environment for everyone.
Glenn Akramoff works on improving toxic workplaces in the public sector in the US. With a background in public works and experience as a city manager, Glenn is passionate about addressing toxic work environments and supporting individuals who are affected by them.
In his conversation with Dan and Pia, Glenn describes how he focuses on building trust and rapport with team members, earning their respect, and creating a positive work culture. Through his work, he aims to heal organisations by helping individuals heal, and fostering a healthier and more productive work environment.
Three reasons to listen
To learn about the impact of toxic workplaces on individuals and the wider organisation
To understand the factors that contribute to the development of a toxic workplace
For practical approaches to healing and transforming toxic workplaces
Episode highlights
[00:08:44] The impact of toxic workplaces
[00:13:12] Unwritten rules
[00:16:54] Getting permission to lead
[00:23:32] Glenn's roadmap for turning toxic teams around
A team approach to health with Tim Arnold and Liz Dean
00:44:16
Teams need clarity in order to function. Without clear leadership or a shared goal, people can feel unheard and undervalued. This is all the more critical in a hospital setting where patients also need to be heard and valued.
Dr Tim Arnold is a family medicine physician in Northern Minnesota, with 22 years of experience delivering babies, providing care in the ICU, emergency room, clinic, and hospital.
Liz Dean worked for 20 years with Tim at the same organisation, focusing on business development and innovation. Now, she helps leaders in healthcare schools and businesses improve their skills and optimise for greater success.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Titles are intriguing but can create issues when they are used to create deferential ranks. Calling Tim by his first name removes a critical barrier without undermining the important work he does involving people's lives and sickness.
Removing rank can simplify things and lead to more authentic human relationships.
Organisations are flattening their structures and finding new approaches to work. Consequently, the fixation on titles is decreasing.
A title can be a form of acknowledgment for our work, but it doesn't necessarily indicate our leadership skills. Genuine leadership is more about relating to people and inspiring them to follow.
We don’t always have control over our environment. But we can control the way we relate to people and collectively think through problems.
When we don't know enough to understand the result of our actions, we end up with complexity and chaos. We must get multiple perspectives, and forget about finding a perfect answer.
Where do you go to half a fast-tracked career and make some quick cash? For Stephen Hunt, the answer turned out to be Internet advertising. But it was only ever a limited-time plan to create enough space for him to explore his real passion: music.
Steve is the co-founder and COO of Music Health, a company improving mental health through music. Inspired by a 2014 film about music’s impact on people with dementia, Steve and his business partner Nick began work on an app that would do for dementia what Headspace and Calm have done for meditation.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Rather than list a set of values on the wall, what are the practices that will lead to behaviours?
When trying to work against the failure statistics of startups, it makes sense to prioritise mental and physical health.
Those short-term health choices can lead to longer-term positive consequences.
The engagement crisis and what to do about it with Juliet Owen
00:37:55
Employee engagement is in crisis, with staggeringly low levels of engagement across the workforce, particularly among younger employees.
This lack of engagement is not only affecting workers' wellbeing, but also has significant economic impact, with an estimated $8.9 trillion lost annually in global GDP due to low engagement.
This week's guest is Juliet Owen, business analyst at Squadify. Juliet has a background in economics and works with a database of 2.5 million data points, analysing engagement and team dynamics.
Three reasons to listen
Discover alarming statistics about the current state of employee engagement, including how it has stalled and declined in recent years.
Learn about the significant financial impact of low engagement on global GDP and various business performance metrics.
Explore how the COVID-19 pandemic has affected leadership styles and workplace dynamics, leading to shifts in employee engagement.
Episode highlights
[00:08:48] What is an engagement survey?
[00:15:43] The desire for engagement vs its presence
Bringing teams together around human-centred design with Adam Billing
00:42:29
Innovation is a team sport and design thinking is a team activity. A great team involves multiple disciplines, diversity of perspectives, and a culture of permission to help guide each other towards good behaviours.
Adam Billing is the founder of Treehouse Innovation and Sprintbase, and an expert in how design thinking can be used to fuel innovation. In his conversation with Dan and Pia, he explains the principles of design thinking, which involves deeply understanding what the customer cares about, inviting diverse perspectives to generate ideas, and rapidly moving those ideas towards solutions that are grounded in customer insights.
Adam also talks about the importance of team dynamics and how a diverse team with individuals who have self-awareness, collaboration skills, and humility can make design thinking work effectively.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Design thinking is a team sport and meeds diverse perspectives to generate ideas.
It protects from leading with assumptions and quickly getting attached to ideas.
Design thinking is a slow process that requires psychological safety and co-creation.
Innovation requires letting go of expertise and dealing with your own internal workings to be open.
Curiosity is fundamental to design thinking and can be applied to life.
Don't spend too much time polishing the perfect thing before launching it.
Breaking out of the box – neurodiversity and connection with Ross Fraser
00:30:13
Undiagnosed autism can feel like a constant struggle to understand, and to be understood. For autism campaigner Ross Fraser, this led to him hiding away for decades to avoid continuing to feel like he was doing or saying the wrong thing, without ever being given rules that made sense.
The autism community in the UK includes approximately five million people, and yet in Ross’s experience, most people who live with autism say they’ve felt alone most of their lives.
In his conversation with Dan and Pia, Ross breaks down some of the key differences between neurotypical and neurodivergent minds, and talks openly and emotionally about the impact loneliness and isolation has, which is what fuels his advoacy.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Are we getting worse at connecting together as humans? If so, part of the work of connection means treating each-other as individuals.
Is anyone really “fully” neurotypical?
Any difference needs to be embraced with compassion, care, and curiosity.
If you can be compassionate, you can work with any human.
It’s time for a new approach to teamwork: one that minimises distractions, reduces time-blocking communication, prioritises mental health, and promotes independent and efficient work.
This management style can lead to more productive teams, with fewer managers and more individual contributors, with everyone focused on their core competencies.
Liam Martin is the author of a bestselling book and the founder of a conference focused on remote working, which he believes is crucial for scaling organisations. He advocates for a new management style for remote teams, emphasising the importance of communicating effectively without unnecessary interaction.
Three reasons to listen
Explore asynchronous management and its potential to revolutionise remote work practices
Discover the challenges organisations face when implementing asynchronous management and how to overcome them
Learn about the importance of documentation and effective information sharing in scaling remote teams
Episode highlights
[00:11:55] What is asynchronous management?
[00:17:51] Where companies fail to implement asynchronous management
Nearly 60% of women are worried about job losses due to AI, but only 22% are actively adopting it. This reflects a broader pattern of workplace inequality, where tech revolutions risk leaving women behind.
The solution lies in leadership, embracing vulnerability and authenticity, focusing on short-term clarity, and not pretending to have all the answers. But does it also lie in Sheryl Sandberg’s “lean in” philosophy, or does this encourage women to behave more like men in order to fit in?
This episode’s guest is Sheela Subramanian, who has had an extensive career in tech leadership, including roles at Google, Slack, and Salesforce. She's the co-author of How the Future Works, a bestselling book about flexible work and teams, focusing on how leaders can navigate change. She's a mother of two young daughters and balances multiple roles including being a wife, mother, daughter, and speaker.
Three reasons to listen
Learn about the gap in AI adoption between men and women
Understand how leaders can navigate workplace uncertainty by embracing vulnerability and acknowledging when they don't have all the answers
Discover perspectives on burnout in the modern workplace, particularly how it affects women trying to fit into systems that weren't built for them
Human beings are designed to connect. Lockdowns showed us how much we valued connection, but also how vital our habits were to helping us stabilise. But while habits include routine behaviours, they can also include thought patterns that lead to judgements of others.
Sue Langley equips people to be the best they can be. She does this by applying positive psychology, emotional intelligence, and neuroscience. In her conversation with Dan and Pia, she explores how principles applied of positive psychology can help teams get stuff done together.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Put your brain health first.
Build habits
Pay attention and attune to the things that will keep you on your game.
Disagreements can quickly escalate into a fight for survival, triggering a limbic response in the brain that can lead to destructive behaviour. But none of us has privileged access to the truth. We all have different perspectives, and so by engaging with the unpredictability and uncertainty of our environment, we can get to a more precise, accurate, and nuanced understanding.
To nurture a culture of healthy disagreement, we need to remember we don't know everything, and that assumptions can be challenged. This takes curiosity and a willingness to change our position and the position of others.
In this second and final part of Dan and Pia’s conversation with Matthew Bellringer, our guest explores ways we can start to disagree agreeably, by being clear about what we don't know, situating our perspective, and sharing why we think a certain way.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Considering other perspectives is essential for positive disagreement and progress, and bringing us further into the group, rather than risking the feeling of banishment.
Making assumptions harms our attention to detail and critical thinking. Truth is often complex, but we can tend to prioritise being right and looking for quick fixes.
If we feel threatened by a differing viewpoint, we can lose our ability to reason at a higher level, and can be compelled to make our point at all costs. We need to find ways to detach from emotions and try to understand our own responses.
Healthy debate should recognise the middle ground, and be able to see both sides. It’s a position of strength, not weakness.
How to clear an innovation roadblock with Tony Morgan
00:39:04
Teams that embrace challenges and are open to new ideas can develop better solutions and achieve greater success. Innovation is an iterative process that needs resilience and the ability to adapt to change, and students are learning the role of teamwork within innovation today.
Tony Morgan is a professor at Leeds University Business School, within the engineering and physical sciences faculty. He leads a cluster of innovation practice modules where teams of students from different areas across the university work on real-world innovation challenges.
In his conversation with Dan and Pia, he sets out the importance of embracing change and turning problems into opportunities.
Three reasons to listen
To discover the importance of resilience and adaptability in the innovation process through real-world examples and practical techniques
To understand the role of teamwork and effective communication in driving successful innovation projects
To learn how to navigate and embrace change, turning obstacles into opportunities for growth and creativity
Episode highlights
[00:17:25] Dynamics within student innovation teams
[00:19:30] Bringing the introverts into the conversation
[00:26:30] Putting diverging and converging into practice
If you want to build a community asset that promotes teamwork, communication, and resilience, focus on the positives, have a vision, and stick to your values. These are some of the things actuary Richard Giles discovered when taking up the position of Chairman at his local football club, Ilkley Town AFC.
Richard has a growth mindset and the courage to make changes when needed. He believes in promoting good examples and having flexibility in streaming players to achieve the best outcomes for each individual and the team.
Takeaways from Pia and Dan
Tricky calls must be made when coaches don't live by the values and purpose of the club.
Inclusivity and performance can be balanced with an "and" mindset.
Richard has effectively engaged with people and got them to take ownership of the club.
He’s driven by the purpose of promoting teamwork, communication, and resilience.
For mountain guide Tania Noakes, leadership isn’t about giving commands, but is about collaborating.
Tania is an adventurer and climber who works with teams to help them tackle some of nature’s biggest challenges. As a group guide, Tania has had to be something of a chameleon, adapting herself to what the team dynamic needs to reach their goal safely.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
A good leader adapts to the team, rather than expecting the team to adapt to them.
Tough times call for clear communication.
If you’re doing something, explain what you’re doing to your team.
To bring specialists into teams with different skill sets takes good communication and a knowledge of the history of the team you’re integrating. Doing this well means everyone can point their skills at solving problems.
Ash Winter is an experienced software tester who has a particular interest in how teams and organisations work. Ash has been a software tester for over 15 years, and has experience as a consultant, helping organisations improve their testing processes.
In his role he’s seen a wide range of team structures and sizes, and he’s particularly focused on the challenges and opportunities of being a specialist within a team.
Three reasons to listen
Understand the unique challenges and opportunities of being a specialist in a cross-functional team
Explore the impact of team history and dynamics on integrating new specialists
Learn about the evolving role of software testers and their influence in modern development teams
Episode highlights
[00:09:14] Testing teams
[00:14:29] The problem with "embedding" into a team
[00:16:30] The Spotify model
[00:19:48] Communities of practice
[00:22:57] Agile methodologies with multidisciplinary teams
[00:28:05] The benefits of a coaching qualification
We too often prioritise work over our own needs. This is compounded if you have a disability that might take you away from work for a time, if a new baby has entered your life, or if you’re grieving. Serena Savini lives with a chronic illness and had an accident at work that shed light on this realisation.
Serena is an HR expert, coach, and podcaster who believes that those re-entering work need to be supported in every way possible. For her, the most important thing is to create a comfortable environment where everyone is respected and able to be open and honest about their experiences and needs.
Takeaways from Dan and Pia
Changing over time requires conscious recognition of your identity. it's not just about build habits and ticking boxes.
We don't always know how to deal with change, even when we're aware of it. This can lead to what Serena called a "strange and awkward silence”.
Like the Chinese proverb says, we can't step in the same river twice. As we move on before coming back to a team, so the team itself has changed.
When the legal system in Italy let Serena down, it was her team that was able to provide support, even as the company itself let her down.
Although things have moved on, the price of the human we call an employee seems to be very low right now.
Contracts are so often focused on preparing for the worst, rather than setting up successful relationships. Effective contracts focus on establishing strong relationships, good communication, and problem-solving. Leading with these principles allows contracts to evolve from being blunt legal instruments to valuable tools for promoting collaboration and navigating uncertainties.
Sally Guyer is the global CEO of World CC and a professor at Durham University. She is passionate about improving the way contracts are structured and managed, focusing on creating successful relationships and driving desired outcomes. She believes that contracts should go beyond just addressing legal aspects and must provide a scaffolding for navigating uncertainty and fostering effective governance.
In her discussion with Dan and Pia, she advocates for a shift towards relational contracting and emphasises the importance of communication and an outcome-focused approach in contract management.
Three reasons to listen
To explore the importance of contracts in business and society, and how they can be improved to drive successful outcomes
To learn about relational contracting and the principles that support strong and effective relationships
To discover how contract management can contribute to the success of organisations
For over a year Chuck Anderson underwent a battery of tests to find out why he was feeling so physically unwell. After moving from the US to Sydney and still finding no answers, he was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and ADHD.
After cycles of depression and anxiety, Chuck was finally given information on mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR), which changed his life dramatically for the better.
Since then, Chuck has co-founded Living to Thrive with his partner, to help organisations build better overall resilience.
The Dark Side of Data: Avoiding Costly Pitfalls with Jenni McNeil
00:36:14
Engagement surveys and team data are tools for understanding and supporting teams, not targets to achieve or sticks to beat people with.
Simply gathering data for the sake of a good score is counterproductive and potentially disengaging. This information should be used to genuinely understand team dynamics, spot trends, and identify areas where support is needed to build authentic engagement and commitment to the organisation.
Jenni McNeil is the head of Information Security at Contact Energy in New Zealand. She leads a geographically diverse team focused on protecting the cyber resilience of the organisation. Jenni started in sales and became a manager at 25, switching to technology as an IT support technician before pivoting to cybersecurity.
Her current team includes a mix of experience levels, from recent graduates to industry veterans with 25 years of experience, spread across different locations.
Three reasons to listen
Learn how to effectively monitor team dynamics in a remote work environment through digital listening and virtual water-cooler spaces
Understand the true value of engagement surveys as tools for understanding workforce trends and identifying areas for support, not just scoring metrics
Discover strategies for managing geographically dispersed teams while maintaining connection without micromanaging
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