The Proof Point (UserEvidence)

The TL;DR

Overwhelmed by the constant push to be customer-obsessed?

Mark Organ (Influitive), Jill Rowley (Salesforce), and Evan Huck (UserEvidence) dive deep into what it means to truly focus on the customer without losing sight of what’s best for your business. This episode explores the delicate balance between meeting customer demands and maintaining a healthy company culture.

What’s working in B2B SaaS:

UNDERSTANDING CUSTOMER NEEDS

Instead of simply following customer requests, deeply understand and anticipate their needs to deliver truly valuable solutions. Aligning product and service offerings with genuine customer problems can lead to innovative breakthroughs and stronger customer loyalty.

What’s not working in B2B SaaS:

BLINDLY FOLLOWING CUSTOMER DEMANDS

Prioritizing every customer request without consideration can lead to unsustainable practices and burnout. A balanced approach that also considers employee well-being and strategic business goals is essential for long-term success.

The key takeaways

• Customer Obsession with Balance: While being customer-centric is vital, it’s equally important to know when to set boundaries. Effective go-to-market strategies involve understanding and anticipating customer needs rather than blindly following every request. This balanced approach fosters a sustainable relationship with customers and ensures business health.
• Innovative Pricing Strategies: Companies that innovate in pricing and packaging often see significant growth. By aligning pricing models with customer value and needs, businesses can remove barriers to adoption and drive scale. This approach also involves transferring some cost and risk from the customer to the company, ensuring a win-win situation.
• Real Customer Stories: Integrating real customer stories and evidence into the sales process is crucial. Prospects trust peer experiences more than sales pitches, making customer evidence a powerful tool for building credibility and trust. This method enhances the buying experience and increases conversion rates.
• Employee-Centric Culture: Ensuring a healthy work environment for employees can lead to better customer experiences. By investing in employee well-being and empowerment, companies create a positive feedback loop that benefits both employees and customers.
• Strategic Customer Relationships: Not all customer feedback should be implemented. Knowing when to say no and maintaining strategic focus helps companies avoid unnecessary complexity and ensures that they deliver the most value. This approach highlights the importance of strategic decision-making in maintaining a customer-centric yet sustainable business model.

The things to listen for:

(00:00) Intro

(01:28) Understanding customer needs instead of following requests blindly

(05:49) Balancing customer demands with strategic business goals

(08:06) The impact of employee well-being on customer experience

(11:16) Innovative pricing strategies for better customer alignment

(14:56) The power of real customer stories in building trust

(19:33) Knowing when to say no to customer feedback

(23:48) Aligning product development with genuine customer problems

(33:52) The importance of strategic decision-making in B2B SaaS

(39:20) How employee-centric cultures lead to better customer outcomes

(44:25) Creating a sustainable relationship with customers through balanced approaches

The TL;DR

Are you tired of battling churn and struggling to retain customers?

Today, Sy Pendergast (Goldcast), Lauren Alt Kishpaugh (Pendo), and Myles Bradwell (UserEvidence) get real about what actually causes customers to churn and break the myth that churn is just a Customer Success problem.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

COLLABORATIVE CUSTOMER SUCCESS STRATEGIES

Bridge the gap between Marketing and Customer Success. Discover how leveraging positive customer stories and refining your ICP can drastically reduce churn. Collaboration is key—unite your teams to drive real, impactful results.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

OPERATING IN SILOS

Ditch the isolated approach. It’s time to bring Marketing, Sales, and Customer Success together. When teams work in harmony, you understand customer needs better and provide value that keeps them coming back.

The key takeaways

• Align Marketing and Customer Success: Break down silos between Marketing and Customer Success to ensure a unified approach to customer retention and expansion. Collaboration drives better results and creates a better experience for the customer.
• Understand the real causes of churn: Churn isn't just a Customer Success issue. Factors like product fit, pricing, and timing play crucial roles. To minimize churn, make sure your product is the right fit at the right price and time.
• Focus on leading indicators: Regularly review leading indicators like weekly active users or assets produced to measure the effectiveness of your retention strategies. This helps identify issues early and allows for timely adjustments.
• Leverage positive customer stories: Use success stories from your current customers to build trust and credibility. Highlighting these stories can help you retain existing customers and attract new ones.
• Continuous feedback loop: Establish a continuous feedback loop between Sales, Marketing, and Customer Success. Regular communication helps identify and solve issues early, ensuring all teams are aligned and working towards common goals.

The things to listen for

[00:00] - Intro to churn and retention

[02:20] - Marketing and Customer Success misalignment issues

[08:19] - Causes of churn in the B2B SaaS world

[14:25] - Sales' role in preventing churn

[18:28] - Using Customer Success data for Marketing

[24:03] - Collaboration across departments

[31:48] - Importance of net retention rate (NRR)

[38:52] - Real-time customer feedback loop

[43:36] - Aligning Marketing with customer needs

[49:53] - The future of Marketing and Customer Success

Jen Allen-Knuth may have lost a few friends with this one.

Jen (DemandJen), Kaylee Edmondson (DemandLoops), and Jason Oakley (Productive PMM) share some of the biggest failings around creating, socializing, and iterating on GTM messaging that resonates.

What’s working for GTM messaging:

START WITH THE PROBLEM AND VALUE If you know your ICP, the problem you’re solving, and the value you’re bringing, your messaging will resonate. Period.

What’s not working for GTM messaging:
 CRAFTING IN A SILO Even if you’re your own ICP, don’t fall into the trap of not socializing your early messaging ideas and letting outside influence into your process

The key takeaways:

1. Trust and diagnosis in Sales: B2B marketers should empower prospects to self-diagnose their problems, thus fostering a trust-centered relationship. As Jen Allen-Knuth highlights, it is crucial to create an environment where customers can recognize and understand their pain points, rather than aggressively pushing products as solutions.
2. Internal alignment on messaging: Mark Huber stresses the importance of internal buy-in when it comes to new GTM messaging. Ensuring that influential figures, like the head of sales, are on board is crucial for consistent messaging adoption across the sales team, leading to a unified and effective market approach.
3. Data-driven Marketing strategies: Kaylee Edmonson's evolution in perspective on the value of product marketers underscores the necessity of good working relationships and the use of data in convincing teams of new strategies. Implementing any change, especially in messaging, should come with demonstrable results that support the strategy and help win over skeptics within the organization.
4. Targeting key Sales personnel: Jen's strategy of focusing on skeptics and top-performers to test new marketing approaches suggests that B2B marketers should identify and leverage internal influencers within the sales organization. These key individuals can provide valuable feedback and serve as advocates for the new messaging, aiding in wider team adoption.
5. The need for continuous feedback and adjustment: The discussion about the importance of ongoing feedback and adaptation, as echoed by all the guests, is a crucial takeaway for B2B marketers. Leveraging feedback from sales calls, involving marketing team members in the feedback loop, and adapting marketing strategies based on real-time sales experiences can significantly improve messaging relevance and impact.

Things to Listen for:

00:00 LinkedIn show featuring B2B SaaS experts & ideas. 
05:24 Logic-based journeys, client objections, and referrals. 
08:47 Avoid starting alone, in the dark, or mimicking competitors. 
12:57 Chili Piper's innovative product sold itself effectively. 
15:56 Balancing future vision with current challenges and sales. 
18:06 Exceptional marketers understand the value of persuasion. 
21:01 Inadequate context led to an unpleasant situation. 
23:28 Importance of aligning sales and marketing strategies. 
29:16 Jason fostered valuable work relationship, revealed industry insights. 
33:24 Teaching process for product launch and positioning. 
34:54 Feedback-driven approach improves sales messaging success. 
40:00 Enablement team and coaching improves sales effectiveness. 
41:47 Marketing team should listen to sales calls.

Kyle Coleman, CMO of Copy.ai, joins The Proof Point to share his refreshing take on the future of the SDR role and the impact of AI on go-to-market teams. Kyle, who began his career as an SDR, shares why so many companies get the SDR model wrong and how AI can be integrated without compromising the authenticity of customer evidence.

From "SDR AI sandwiches" to avoiding “spam cannons,” this episode shows how AI can enhance—not replace—the SDR role by providing actionable insights and trustworthy customer evidence that supports meaningful sales conversations.

Subscribe to Mark’s newsletter, Evidently

Learn more about the customer evidence platform that B2B teams at Gong, HackerOne, Sendoso, and more trust at userevidence.com.

Things to listen for:

(00:00) Introduction 

(00:28) Why proof, not opinions, drives go-to-market success

(02:20) Kyle’s role at Copy.ai – redefining sales tools

(04:33) Copy.ai’s workflow magic: podcasts to blog posts

(05:33) Tackling “go-to-market bloat” with streamlined solutions

(07:17) Bridging SDR skill gaps with AI efficiency

(09:39) Kyle’s wildest SDR fail – lessons learned

(10:05) AI SDRs? Why buyers want human connections

(11:27) The future SDR: more strategy, less spamming

(13:08) How Copy.ai helps execs meet strategic goals

Here’s what GTM teams are missing: Proof.

That’s what I think every morning when I fire up LinkedIn and scroll through boring manifestos and endless lukewarm takes.

Opinions are cheap. Proof is gold.

I’m Mark Huber, and this is The Proof Point, a show from UserEvidence that helps GTM teams find ideas, get frameworks, and swap tactics.

Each episode includes an unfiltered discussion with the biggest names in B2B SaaS to help find the proof points i’m in search of.

You’ll learn from sales, marketing, & customer success leaders in the trenches, where I ask them: seriously, what actually works for you?

One of our guests actually told me “This felt like we were having drinks at a bar and talking about work…without all the BS.”

That pretty much sums it up. And why I’m so excited for this new show.

Join us every other week for new episode. Hot takes always welcome.

The TL;DR

Hey B2B marketers, struggling to execute on the data you collect?

Peep Laja (Wynter), Victoria Sakal (Wonder), and Ryan Sorley (Klue) join the show to talk about how to transform customer insights into strategic actions.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

OWNERSHIP & QUICK DECISION-MAKING

Ditch the committee approach. Crown a leader who can make quick decisions and see your initiatives gain speed and precision.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

BROAD RESEARCH

Casting a wide net? Stop immediately. Focus on specific customer segments for feedback, making your research purposeful and actionable.

The key takeaways

• Invest in target customer insights: Understanding specific customer segments and gathering qualitative data can significantly impact customer willingness to pay, the efficiency of your sales funnel, and overall company growth. It’s crucial for B2B marketers to dedicate time and resources to obtaining these insights through targeted research methods like surveys and interviews.
• Focus on actionable insights: Knowing the difference between data and insights is key. Data is passive, collected through tools like surveys or desk research, while insights require context and interpretation to reveal the "so what" and "now what." Marketers should aim to extract actionable insights that can directly influence decision-making and business strategy.
• Ensure clear ownership: Peep Laja emphasizes the need for a clear owner or lead for managing insights and making decisions. Decisive leadership is vital. B2B marketers should assign accountable leads to ensure that insights are transformed into actionable strategies efficiently, rather than relying on committees.
• Adopt continuous and agile research: Embrace an always-on approach to research for continuous data and strategic flexibility. "Little r" research involves ongoing, smaller-scale studies to help maintain organizational alignment and adaptability.
• Customize findings for different roles: Research isn't always a team sport—different stakeholders have varying needs and perspectives. Present findings in ways that effectively influence different stakeholders. B2B marketers should contextualize and customize insights for different audiences to drive impactful business decisions.

Resources

How to select the right research methodology: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/victoriasakal_innovation-research-askbetterquestions-activity-7212486453430300673-VJ3p?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

The things to listen for

[00:00] Intro

[02:00] The benefits of regular customer research

[04:45] The perception of research costs

[06:05] What are target customer insights?

[12:00] Desk research

[21:30] Have a clear plan to act on research insights

The TL;DR

Today, we're all about research—audiences, customers, markets, you name it. No fluff, just the raw truth.

Amanda Natividad (SparkToro), MJ Smith (CoLab), and Evan Huck (UserEvidence) talk about research (or lack thereof) for many B2B companies.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

CREATIVITY + CUSTOMER INSIGHT

Research needs to validate creative ideas. Hear how these three avoid marketing myopia.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

INCONSISTENT RESEARCH Research isn’t a one-off activity. Don’t fall victim to the trap of institutional knowledge.

The key takeaways:

1. Understand the full scope of audience influences: B2B marketers should move beyond simple demography and firmographics to include the broader context of what influences their audience, including peers, competitors, and societal trends.
2. Blend creativity with customer insight: Although creativity is vital for differentiating your brand and marketing efforts, it needs to be backed by solid customer insights. B2B marketers should leverage research to validate creative ideas, ensuring they are addressing the real needs and challenges of their customers.
3. Utilize a mix of research methods: A combination of quantitative data and qualitative insights is crucial for a well-rounded understanding of your customers. Advances in technology are enabling richer qualitative insights at scale, but marketers must also look for the non-obvious insights that come from in-depth, tailored research conversations.
4. Consistent research is key: Research is a continuous process. B2B marketers need to stay on top of changes in customer behavior, industry trends, and underlying motivations by making research an ongoing practice.
5. Democratize access to customer feedback: In many organizations, customer feedback becomes siloed within certain departments. B2B marketers should advocate for democratized access to customer feedback across the organization to allow for diverse perspectives and to gain a broader understanding of customer needs and challenges.

The things to listen for:

00:00 Intro

05:27 Frequent research ensures institutional knowledge remains accurate

09:11 Audience research: interviews, surveys, content consumption

10:38 Balancing creative risk-taking in marketing

16:07 Be specific

19:22 B2B marketing relies on assumptions, which are often boring

20:15 Identify the correct target for potential sales

26:12 Use cross-functional customer engagement for better insights

27:14 Scarcity of customer feedback presents challenges for companies

34:20 AI-driven insights

37:35 Summarizing caller data to identify recurring pain points

42:10 Acquisition brought strategic MBAs, but lacked practicality

43:00 Closing

The TL;DR
Struggling to prove marketing’s impact?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence), Pranav Piyush (Paramark), Megan Boone (Redis), and Jason Widup (Fractional CMO) share their approaches for setting goals, measuring success, and getting leadership buy-in for strategies that aren’t always quantifiable. Find out how they strike the right balance between short-term wins and long-term growth.

What’s working in B2B marketing:
TRUST YOUR JUDGMENT, NOT JUST THE NUMBERS
Not every successful tactic can be neatly measured. Combining data with sound judgment builds the confidence needed for leadership buy-in.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:
OVER-RELIANCE ON METRICS
Focusing too much on data can miss the bigger picture. Not every effective strategy shows immediate returns, but building trust with leadership allows room for tactics that take longer to pay off.

The key takeaways:
1. Internal communication goes beyond sharing wins: It’s not just about delivering visible results. Consistent updates ensure leadership understands the marketing team’s ongoing efforts, even when the impact isn’t immediately obvious.
2. Growth isn’t just about the numbers: A successful strategy balances measurable goals with flexible initiatives. Both are needed to drive short-term gains and long-term progress.
3. Trust starts with early wins: Securing quick, measurable outcomes helps build the trust needed to pursue larger, more ambitious strategies that take longer to pay off.
4. Go beyond attribution with modeling: Attribution is important, but it’s not the only way to measure success. Modeling helps capture broader trends and gives a clearer picture of performance.
5. Set expectations early: This is more than hitting targets. Establishing realistic, achievable goals allows you to exceed targets and foster stronger relationships with leadership.

The things to listen for
(00:00) Intro
(01:17) The challenge of proving marketing’s impact
(02:25) Setting measurable goals vs. trusting your instincts
(05:49) Why internal marketing builds leadership trust
(09:33) Can everything be measured? 
(13:27) Using event marketing to drive pipeline
(17:28) Balancing data-driven decisions with intuition
(22:58) How small wins build momentum for your team
(29:03) Modeling success versus focusing on measurement
(36:24) Biggest mistakes and advice for new marketing leaders

The TL;DR

Feeling buried under LinkedIn fluff and competitive banter?

Andy McCotter-Bicknell (Apollo), Clara Smyth (Klue), and Alex Eaton (UserEvidence)— trailblazers in the world of competitive intelligence—share their wealth of experience on gathering actionable insights, understanding your competitors' strategies, and effectively positioning your product in a crowded market.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

INVESTING IN COMPETITIVE INTELLIGENCE

Knowing your competitors isn't optional—it's critical. Whether it's crafting that killer pitch or understanding your customer's pain points, competitive intelligence is your secret weapon to closing more deals.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

ONE-SIDED COMPETITIVE FOCUS

It's not all about the rivals. Forgetting the customer while obsessing over competitors? Major faux pas. There’s a balance to strike between competitive and customer intelligence.

The key takeaways

• Invest in competitive intelligence: Understanding your competitors' strategies and positioning helps your sales and marketing teams craft more effective narratives and enables sellers to close competitive deals.
• Use comparison pages: Create and maintain detailed comparison pages that highlight your strengths over competitors. Using mutual customer feedback to populate these pages adds credibility and authenticity. Keeping accurate and truthful comparisons publicly available can influence potential buyers decisively, even if it garners pushback from competitors.
• Understand the role of customer intelligence: A strong competitive intelligence program relies on understanding customer feedback and experiences. By aligning campaigns and product offerings with actual customer needs, marketers can shape effective strategies that drive product development and enhance customer satisfaction.
• Diversify your competitive intel sources: Gather competitive intelligence from various sources, including win/loss data, internal team feedback, release notes, Gong calls, and internal Slack posts. These sources provide valuable insights into competitors’ actions, market trends, and customer sentiments, helping refine marketing strategies.
• Focus on continuous improvement and collaboration: Make the CI process iterative, with regular updates and improvements. High-quality, up-to-date "battle cards" are essential for training new salespeople and retraining experienced ones. Collaborate with other teams to ensure that competitive intelligence is accurate and actionable, aligning the whole company toward common goals.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[05:15] Defining competitive intelligence

[07:53] Competitive Intelligence’s relationship with customer marketing

[11:50] Understanding the importance of Battle Cards

[17:02] Importance of competitor awareness for revenue protection and customer retention

[22:27] Evaluating competitor strategies and customer resonance

[27:59] Beyond battle cards: Creative forms of competitive intelligence content

[32:00] Balancing competitive intelligence with customer intelligence

The TL;DR

Struggling to show the real value of customer marketing?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence) is joined by Jane Menyo (Gong), Cache Walker (Trellix), and Leslie Barrett (Tipalti) to reveal how top B2B SaaS companies are finding proof points that matter.

What’s working in customer marketing:
THINK LIKE A CONSULTANT
Treat customer marketing as more than just a department. Act like a consultant—balance short-term wins with long-term impact by building solid relationships, both inside and outside your organization.

What’s not working in customer marketing:
LACK OF PROOF
Too many teams are operating without clear metrics. To show the real business value of customer marketing, you need data-driven results. This helps break the myth that it’s just a "feel-good" function.

Key takeaways: 

• Customer marketing goes beyond quick wins: It’s not about just driving immediate results or running feel-good advocacy programs. Think of it as a long-term, consultative approach—you're providing strategic guidance rather than just being another team member.
• Proof is everything: Real customer evidence is at the heart of credibility. In B2B, marketers are seeing the shift to data-backed customer feedback, much like how consumer reviews drive decisions in companies like Uber and Airbnb.
• Tracking engagement isn’t straightforward: It can be tricky for customer marketers to demonstrate the value they bring. Traditional metrics don’t always capture the relationship-building efforts. However, creating solid frameworks and using the right tools to track engagement helps bridge that gap.
• Scaling with creativity and AI: AI tools, like bots that learn from customer feedback and thoughtful multichannel campaigns, can streamline customer marketing. This not only saves manual effort but also leads to genuine, meaningful engagement.
• Getting executives on board: Engaging with top-level executives is one of the toughest aspects of customer marketing, but it’s vital. Identifying the right stakeholders and crafting specific initiatives for them can make all the difference.

The things to listen for:

(00:00) Intro 

(01:17) Why proof points are crucial for go-to-market teams

(02:07) Common mistakes in customer marketing

(03:01) Initial missteps in the field of marketing

(04:02) Why customer marketing is misunderstood 

(07:13) Why customer feedback is important

(09:55) Influences in customer marketing

(14:16) The challenges and pitfalls of customer marketing

(25:28) Leveraging technology and automation

(36:17) Measuring the impact and ROI of customer marketing efforts

If you’ve come to hear Devin Reed at his spiciest, you’ve come to the right place.

Devin (Clari), Anthony Kennada (AudiencePlus), and Morgan J. Ingram (AMP) join host Mark Huber to talk very blatantly about the state of B2B content in 2024.

What’s working in B2B content:

MEASURING + ADAPTING
All 3 of the guys share their actual metrics of success for great content, and how to keep content plans in check based on the cold hard facts.

What’s not working in B2B content: 
CREATING FOR ALGORITHMS 
”Steal my template, bro” bros…beware. You’re not safe in this convo.

Key Takeaways:

• Differentiate Your Content: In the age of plagiarism and content regurgitation, B2B marketers are urged to create unique video content that showcases individual delivery and experiences, making it more difficult to duplicate and helping brands stand out.
• Focus on Authenticity: Authenticity in content creation has never been more critical, as social media is rife with exaggerated and false claims. Customers crave truthful and charismatic communication, which in turn can build real relationships and drive business growth.
• Emphasize Subject Matter Experts: Amplifying subject matter experts is crucial for B2B success. Marketers should incorporate experts into their content strategy - including internal executives and customers - to establish credibility and trustworthiness.
• Prioritize Charisma, Credibility, and Character: When evaluating potential influencers or brand ambassadors, B2B marketers should look for individuals who not only possess expertise but also embody charisma and character that align with the brand's reputation.
• Create for Humans, Not Algorithms: Marketers are encouraged to produce valuable content tailored to human interests rather than solely focusing on SEO and algorithm-driven engagement. Building brand awareness and thought leadership is about winning mind share, which can eventually lead to winning market share.

Things to Listen for:

00:00 Helping companies become media companies, creating categories.

04:30 "People want to feel great, do nothing."

08:16 Unique challenges arising from international content theft.

13:08 Content marketing for SEO in B2B explained.

13:59 Creating valuable content captures authentic audience attention.

19:12 Diverse content formats can enhance audience reach.

21:25 Corporate marketing and thought leadership driving revenue.

25:32 Amplifying experts and building media strategy.

28:27 Risk, credibility, and character are crucial elements.

32:10 Agree, build true advisor board for feedback.

36:34 Past advisory agreements consisted of equity deals.

38:47 Influential voices validated new product launch success.

43:35 Evaluate audience and pipeline growth for credibility.

44:26 Growing following, gating content to monetize.

48:52 Avoid online toxicity, focus on respectful disagreement.

51:15 Closing

Bitly’s CMO, Tara Robertson, shares her customer-centric playbook for transforming Bitly from a link shortener to a full connections platform. From leveraging QR codes to merging physical and digital experiences to using customer evidence, Tara explains how Bitly’s retention-focused marketing impacts every user touchpoint. This episode shares insights on building authentic customer connections while highlighting the metrics that matter in the B2B landscape.

Things to listen for:

(00:00) Introduction 

(01:15) Tara’s journey from Sprout Social to Bitly

(03:02) Building a customer marketing playbook at Sprout

(04:27) Measuring retention and adoption with sub-KPIs

(06:37) Bitly’s new direction

(07:54) QR codes to 2D barcodes

(09:39) Expanding Bitly’s target market - SMBs to enterprise

(11:29) Showcasing use cases to support varied customers

(13:24) Using customer stories to build trust

(17:02) Overcoming challenges in gathering authentic evidence

Subscribe to Mark’s newsletter, Evidently: https://evidently.beehiiv.com/subscribe 

Learn more about the customer evidence platform that B2B teams at Gong, HackerOne, Sendoso, and more trust at userevidence.com 

The TL;DR

Feeling overwhelmed by outdated playbooks and rigid sales processes?

Kevin White (Common Room), Mac Reddin (Commsor), and Natalie Marcotullio (Navattic)—leaders in modern go-to-market strategies—dive deep into transforming your approach to align with today’s buyer expectations, leveraging cutting-edge signals, and fostering long-term relationships.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

ADOPTING A BUYER-FIRST APPROACH

Putting your buyer at the center isn’t just a trend—it’s a necessity. From understanding buyer signals to ensuring seamless experiences, aligning your sales process with buyer preferences can significantly boost engagement and conversions.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

RELYING SOLELY ON MQLs AND SHORT-TERM METRICS

Focusing only on marketing-qualified leads and short-term gains can be a pitfall. Prioritizing pipeline metrics and long-term relationship building over vanity metrics fosters sustainable growth and deeper connections with your audience.

The key takeaways

• Empathy is Essential: Truly understanding and empathizing with buyers is the cornerstone of effective go-to-market strategies. While AI may support this in the future, it can't replace the nuanced understanding human empathy provides. This approach allows sales and marketing teams to connect deeply with buyers, addressing their needs and concerns, and fostering authentic, trust-based relationships.
• Proof Over Opinions: In go-to-market efforts, tangible proof and data are far more compelling than opinions. Presenting concrete evidence and real-world results builds trust and credibility with buyers. This data-driven approach enhances marketing campaigns' persuasiveness and supports informed strategic decisions, demonstrating our commitment to honesty and transparency.
• Signal-Based Strategies: Utilizing various buyer signals, such as LinkedIn engagement, website visits, and job changes, can significantly boost marketing and sales effectiveness. By understanding and acting on these signals, companies can tailor outreach to be more personal and relevant, increasing engagement and conversion rates. This ensures we meet our audience where they are, with the right message at the right time.
• Buyer-First Approach: Aligning the sales process with buyers' preferences is crucial. By addressing their pain points and simplifying their experience, we create a seamless and enjoyable journey. This buyer-first mentality leads to better outcomes and stronger relationships, showing buyers they are understood and valued, aligning with our commitment to being a trusted guide.
• Balancing Metrics: While short-term sales metrics are important, a sole focus on them can be limiting. Prioritizing long-term relationship building and high-quality leads ensures sustainable success. By emphasizing pipeline growth and conversion rates over vanity metrics, we foster deeper connections and achieve lasting results. This balanced approach supports steady growth and adapts to evolving market conditions, reflecting our resourceful and confident approach.

The things to listen for

[00:00] Intro 
[01:28] CRM stages create an inorganic buying process; trust buyers more 
[05:49] Ownership of go-to-market varies with company maturity 
[08:06] Changes in buyer behavior and competition affect go-to-market 
[11:16] Signal-based go-to-market strategies 
[14:56] Effective signals and how to use them 
[19:33] Focus on long-term relationships, not short-term sales goals 
[23:48] Buyer-first go-to-market 
[33:52] Balance short-term results with long-term value 
[39:20] Focus on pipeline rather than vanity metrics 
[44:25] Balance quantitative and qualitative feedback

Adam Schoenfeld woke up and chose violence with his hot take on this one.

Adam (Keyplay) joins Trinity Nguyen (UserGems) and Jarod Greene (Vivun) to dig into some of the most common misconceptions around TAM, ICP, and ID’ing fit.

What’s working when defining your ICP:

LET DATA LEAD THE WAY Set it up in your CRM. Track your customers. What’s changed? Who’s churned? Why? Is our hypothesis for who’s a fit actually our best fit?

What’s not working when defining your ICP: OBSESSION OVER INTENT SIGNALS Fit > intent. For real.

Key Takeaways:

1. Importance of a Defined ICP: Precisely defining the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) is crucial. Adam Schoenfeld stresses the need to establish clear parameters around the ICP to ensure sales and marketing efforts are aligned and focused. Trinity Nguyen's approach of regularly revisiting the ICP at User Gems illustrates the dynamic nature of ICPs and how companies must adapt to shifts in customer fit and market trends.
2. Patience with Strategy Implementation: Give new strategies time to take effect before making changes. Trinity Nguyen points out that particularly in a commercial SaaS context, it's important to allow time for the market to absorb and react to advertising efforts. The pitfall of frequently changing ICPs can be counterproductive and may not provide sufficient data on what works and what doesn’t.
3. Utilization of Multi-Source Feedback: Utilize both wins and losses to refine your ICP. Jarod Greene's insights into Vivint's process of refining their ICP by considering various attributes signal the importance of using diverse feedback channels. This informs a more strategic and adaptable approach to targeting customers.
4. Alignment Across Teams: Ensure alignment across all teams regarding the ICP. The importance of keeping sales, marketing, product development, and customer success teams on the same page regarding the ICP cannot be overstated. This unity ensures a cohesive go-to-market strategy and ensures that all customer-facing teams are targeting and supporting the same customer profile.
5. Focus on Fit Over Intent: Fit should be a priority over intent signals. While intent data platforms can suggest potential customer interest, understanding whether a lead truly fits the ICP is more valuable. The episode discusses the tendency of B2B marketers to over-prioritize intent signals, yet the panel agrees that a deeper understanding of the customer—including their challenges and fit within the ICP—is essential for effective marketing strategies.

Things to Listen for:

00:00 Deeply understand customers for building ideal profiles. 
05:02 Focus on serving the best customers effectively. 
09:46 Tracking customer criteria, part of company DNA. 
12:48 Learning to navigate variance for business success. 
15:07 Set boundaries, focus on strategic growth mindset. 
17:26 Challenges in using limited historical data explained. 
20:36 No's and not nows provide valuable insight. 
25:25 Rely on accurate CRM data for sales. 
27:27 Listening to gong recordings for sales improvement. 
30:59 Implement strategy into operations, test and analyze. 
34:05 Companies expand product offerings due to complexity. 
38:23 Champion needs to handle objections, targeted messaging. 
42:17 Team enjoys memes, aims for brand recognition.

What's the secret sauce for a killer revenue game plan?

Join Mark and the squad—Emily Kramer (MKT1), Adam Goyette (Growth Union), and Jeff Ignacio (Regrow Ag)—as they spill the tea on crafting killer strategic revenue blueprints. They're not just talking shop; they're revolutionizing how we think about growth.

What’s working in revenue models:

ALIGNMENT IS KEY

Clear team goals aligned with company objectives create ownership. Big takeaway for revenue growth models - alignment is key.

What’s not working in revenue models:

POOR PLANNING PROCESSES

Planning meetings? More like blame games and snoozefests, where real strategy talk gets swapped for box-ticking. They're the reason solid plans and forecasts are MIA—everyone's too busy fighting over credit. It's a team effort, not a solo show.

The key takeaways:

• Align goals with team ownership: B2B marketers should set clear goals and ensure that each team member feels a sense of ownership toward those goals. Doing so aligns projects with the business's overall objectives and drives team members to work effectively towards common targets.
• Embrace full-funnel reporting: Marketers must adopt comprehensive planning and reporting practices, looking at the full marketing funnel rather than just top-level metrics. This full-funnel approach enables a better understanding of campaign effectiveness and customer journey, ultimately driving smarter investment decisions and growth.
• Practice realistic, detailed revenue forecasting: Instead of relying on optimistic assumptions or linear growth models, B2B marketers need to create detailed revenue models. These should include specific forecasts for various marketing channels and account for seasonality, market changes, and potential diminishing returns to set realistic growth expectations.
• Foster cross-functional collaboration: B2B marketing teams should work closely with sales, finance, product, and customer service teams to ensure alignment and consistent messaging. This collaboration is critical for setting honest and mutually beneficial goals, ensuring foundational reporting, and executing strategic plans successfully.
• Adapt to change with flexible planning: High turnover rates, unexpected market trends, and other challenges affect business operations. Marketers need to maintain flexibility in their revenue models and business plans, including ranges that allow for unexpected changes and continuous monitoring with feedback loops to make adjustments as necessary.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Focusing on driving revenue

[03:17] Frustration with unproductive and contentious work meetings

[07:40 The high-stakes game of hiring and budgets

[10:56] Revenue models require detailed channel forecasts and planning

[17:41] Plan early with the top-down and bottom-up approach

[21:13] Honesty & reporting are key for planning success

[31:04] Organized planning processes are vital for successful businesses

[34:49] Team ownership of goals, accountability, and responsibility

[36:44] Tying the project list back to your goal

[39:56] Grateful for learning and open to follow-up

The TL;DR

Struggling with "checkbox marketing" and creating content that actually connects with your audience?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence), Brendan Hufford (Growth Sprints),  Jess Cook (Island), and Brooklin Nash (Beam Content) break down building a content POV that resonates.

What’s working in B2B marketing:
PURPOSE-DRIVEN CONTENT
Creating a POV that focuses on solving real customer problems, not just pushing your product, builds lasting trust and engagement. Don’t create content that just pushes your product. 

What’s not working in B2B marketing:
STICKING TO A CONTENT CHECKLIST Relying on the same old content formats and routines without a clear, compelling POV is causing teams to miss out on real engagement. It’s time to move past "checkbox marketing" and create content that truly matters.

Key takeaways:

• Go beyond checkbox marketing: It's not about doing everything on the list. Instead, focus on creating purposeful content that solves real problems. Checking boxes won’t position your brand as a trusted partner, but creating content with intention will.
• Strong POVs drive engagement: When your POV is clear and speaks to your audience's challenges, it drives engagement and builds trust. Those long-term relationships then create more lasting value.
• Solve problems, not just pitch products: Your content shouldn’t always be about your product. When you lead with the problem your audience is facing, you open up more opportunities to build genuine connections.
• Leadership buy-in is critical: Getting leadership aligned with a content strategy that goes beyond metrics is crucial. When leadership trusts in the long-term vision, it’s easier to step away from safe, metrics-driven content.
• Listen to your audience first: The best content starts with understanding your audience. Whether through direct feedback or collaboration with internal teams, insights from your audience guide the way to more relevant and impactful content.

Things to listen for:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:10) Why B2B marketing teams play it safe
(03:06) The problem with checkbox marketing
(05:48) Developing a POV with clear imperatives
(11:34) How a focused message attracts the right audience
(13:24) Balancing high-level concepts and tactical insights
(17:49) Top-down vs. bottom-up approaches to content strategy
(34:16) Building your POV around customer insights
(37:22) Driving cross-team content with a unified strategy
(40:01) Breaking content into key themes and pillars
(46:37) Standing out in a crowded market with distinct messaging
(48:37) Final thoughts on crafting impactful content

The TL;DR

Features, benefits, or outcomes - where should your marketing strategy zoom in? With a sea of opinions out there, here's the lowdown from some folks who really know their stuff.

Anthony Pierri (FletchPMM), Emma Stratton (Punchy), and Chris Orlob (pclub.io) tell us where to shift our focus in messaging to B2B companies to be successful.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

CONVERSATIONAL, CRYSTAL CLEAR MESSAGING Speak plainly, or you might as well speak alien. Keep it simple, keep it straight, and watch visitors turn into leads.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

MIMICKING THE GIANTS

Find strength in your niche market. When it comes to start-ups; narrow & deep will outdo wide & shallow.

The key takeaways:

• Tailor your messaging to the audience's pain points: Understand and directly address the specific problems that your target audience is facing. Mirroring customers' pain in messaging helps build trust and understanding. Using visual aids and credible niche targeting to resonate with risk-averse buyers is extremely effective.
• Contextualize everything based on where your buyers are: This is the technology adoption lifecycle curve comes in handy. Messaging should be customized to appeal to different groups, from early adopters who might prefer customizable solutions to the late majority looking for pre-built, low-risk options.
• Humanize your message: The "barbecue exercise," a strategy to strip away jargon to create a human-oriented, relatable message can significantly differentiate a company from competitors who rely on dry, indistinct language.
• Balance outcome and feature-driven messaging: While many believe that leading with outcomes is the most effective, focusing on the "what" and "how" makes messaging more memorable and effective. Send a balanced message that appeals to the intelligence of sophisticated buyers yet remains specific and tangible.
• Niche-ing down can lead to bigger opportunities: Achieving relevance often means excluding a larger part of the market to focus on a specific niche. A focus on a niche market, like Tesla, led to significantly larger opportunities, a key strategy, especially for early-stage startups. This reinforces the power and potential of targeting and growing from a narrowly defined market.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[10:30] Be specific and differentiate in crowded markets

[15:35] People need a branding agency for tech

[18:24] Effective sales messaging focuses on customer pain

[25:09] Focusing on sales is challenging in this economic climate

[26:57] Product expansion leads to strategic complexity and stress

[30:37] Create content, target niche, reduce risks, and find success

[35:11] Startups can succeed by owning niche markets

[37:32] Use provocative messaging to engage pragmatist buyers

[45:19] Avoid dry business speak & write conversationally

[46:12] Encourage natural communication & simplify complex jargon

[49:43] Jargon's value in specific contexts

The TL;DR

Is your homepage sending the right message?

Robert Kaminski (Fletch) didn’t think so about Calendly and respectfully called them out on LinkedIn. Jeff Hardison, Calendly’s Head of Product Marketing, defended himself in the comment section. We invited them onto the show to continue the debate.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

MATCHING YOUR HOMEPAGE TO YOUR AUDIENCE

Let's be real—your homepage isn't just prime real estate; it's the front line of your marketing battlefield. In a world where most B2B SaaS homepages look alike, the ones hitting the mark are specifically tailored to an audience and what they’re looking for.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

SELLING THE BENEFITS

Marketers and salespeople, especially in B2B SaaS, are over-indexing on this concept of selling the outcomes. While it has a lot of merit, it might not be the right message. Instead, we're putting too much emphasis on what closes the deal and forgetting about why someone came to the homepage in the first place.

The key takeaways

• Messaging for business outcomes: Move beyond product features. Focus on the tangible impact on the business.
• Homepage strategy: Don’t be misleading. Make sure your homepage communicates clearly who you’re for, and how’ll they’ll benefit.
• Balancing PLG and Sales-led motions: Balance minimalism and compelling narratives to drive freemium adoption and bigger deals.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[05:12] Creating a separate storytelling mechanism for Calendly

[13:22] Motivating stakeholders and measuring success

[20:30] Balancing product-led and sales-led marketing

[34:42] Maintaining a product-led growth strategy

[40:58] Aligning marketing message with business goals

The TL;DR

Overwhelmed by the endless debate between brand awareness and demand creation?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence), Liam Moroney (Storybook Marketing), Sydney Sloan (G2), and Sam Kuehnle (Loxo) break down the real differences and why getting it right matters more than ever.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

FALLING IN LOVE WITH THE CUSTOMER
Understanding your audience isn’t enough. The best brands are fixated on solving customer problems, which drives authentic connection and loyalty.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

CONFUSING BRAND AWARENESS WITH DEMAND CREATION
Lumping brand awareness and demand creation together is a mistake. Knowing when and how to leverage each is crucial for driving both immediate results and long-term growth.

The key takeaways

• Customer-first focus: Fall in love with solving customer problems, not just promoting your product. This approach builds trust and positions your brand as a true partner in success.
• Clear, direct messaging: Clarity beats cleverness every time. Make sure your brand message isn’t lost in jargon—be straightforward about what you offer and why it matters.
• Evidence over opinions: In a market full of noise, hard proof stands out. Use data and real-world results to back up your claims, reinforcing trust with your audience.
• Targeted demand creation: Move beyond broad brand awareness. Create targeted, meaningful demand by showing why your solution is the best choice for specific problems.
• Long-term success: Don’t get lost chasing quick wins. Focus on building lasting relationships and sustainable growth by prioritizing high-quality engagement over vanity metrics.

The things to listen for
(00:00) Intro
(01:17) Why brand awareness and demand creation aren’t the same
(04:35) Love the problem more than the product
(07:22) How customer fixation drives successful marketing strategies
(11:08) The dangers of blurring brand and demand
(14:43) Why simplicity beats cleverness in messaging
(19:12) How data-driven marketing builds trust
(22:57) Targeting your ideal customer profile with demand creation
(27:36) Long-term growth strategies vs. chasing quick wins
(31:48) The role of evidence in building a trustworthy brand
(36:54) Key insights and final thoughts from the guests

The TL;DR

Are you struggling to build trust with your buyers? Allyson Havener (TrustRadius) and Mark Huber (UserEvidence) break down the B2B buying disconnect between buyers and marketing and sales efforts—including some helpful tips to apply to your own marketing strategy to help close that gap.

What’s working in B2B marketing:
DATA-BACKED PROOF
Original research and transparent data are key to building credibility and trust with skeptical buyers who are demanding upfront pricing and product claims before purchasing.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:
SUGAR-COATED "PROOF"
Focusing too much on traditional bottom-funnel tactics without addressing what buyers genuinely want reduces trust and transparency. Pushing overly optimistic marketing narratives without real proof causes buyer mistrust. (And can ultimately lead to decision-making paralysis.)

Grab TrustRadius’ original research report
Grab UserEvidence’s original research report The Evidence Gap

Key Takeaways:

• Address the disconnect between B2B buyers and sellers: There’s a significant gap between what buyers want and how sellers and marketers approach them. Buyers prioritize upfront pricing, peer reviews, and minimal sales pressure, while vendors often overlook these preferences.
• Trust is critical in the sales process: B2B buyers are skeptical, especially with the influx of tech options. Transparent communication, real customer evidence, and accurate ROI data is crucial to overcoming buyer hesitation.
• Original research fuels effective marketing strategies: Both TrustRadius and UserEvidence used their research reports as the cornerstone for content creation, social proof, and marketing messaging—illustrating how data-driven insights can shape a year’s worth of marketing materials.
• Brand trust is key in narrowing choices: Buyers typically start their search with 2-3 potential vendors and often stick with their original choice, underscoring the importance of establishing brand trust early in the buyer’s journey.
• Align marketing and sales for deal acceleration: In complex B2B sales, particularly with large enterprises, aligning sales and marketing strategies is essential to shorten the sales cycle and ensure consistent messaging across all touchpoints.

Things to listen for:
(00:00) Welcome to the show
(01:20) How data fuels marketing strategies
(06:22) The B2B brand trust crisis
(07:57) Disconnect between buyer expectations and vendors
(10:33) Buyers, sellers, marketers are not on same page
(12:20) Buyers’ demand for upfront pricing, not secrecy
(13:29) Buyer preference: Peer reviews over pushy sales
(23:13) Why do buyers stick with original vendor choice?

B2B buying has evolved almost overnight…so why is B2B selling still running the same plays?

Nate Nasralla (Fluint), Rachel Shi (Metadata), and Mark Kosoglow (Catalyst Software) share their theories on why the sales playbooks in 2024 are still lagging, and the ways they’re changing the game within their own organizations.

What’s working in B2B selling:

GOING BEYOND SALES TRAINING Kobe took tap dancing lessons to strengthen his ankles. Arnold Schwarzenegger took ballet lessons to learn how to pose onstage. Going outside of your discipline gives you a better perspective and helps break tired plays.

What’s not working in B2B selling TRADITIONAL DISCOVERY CALLS ”Hey, what are the 3 biggest problems you’re facing right now?” - ask that, and your prospect is already zoned out. It’s time to find new tactics that will engage and impress as a first impression.

Key Takeaways:

1. Tailor Your Training: Rachel Shi underscored the importance of moving away from a one-size-fits-all model of sales training to a more tailored approach that addresses the nuances of B2B SaaS. B2B marketers should assess the specific needs of their sales team and customize their training programs to improve effectiveness.
2. Speak Your Buyer's Language: Rachel, Nate Nasralla, and Mark Kosoglow emphasized the significance of understanding and using the buyer's language within business cases and sales conversations. Marketers should ensure that sales tools and materials resonate with their target audience by aligning them with the buyer's internal terminology and perspective.
3. The Power of Polarizing Questions: The guest panel discussed the strategic approach of using polarizing questions early in the sales process to identify qualified prospects and position solutions effectively. Marketers should consider developing materials that assist the sales team in deploying these questions to uncover key customer pain points and motivations.
4. Prioritizing Empathy and Relationships: Nate highlighted that empathic accuracy is imperative for building genuine sales relationships, but it's often lacking. Marketers must foster an empathetic understanding of their potential buyers to craft campaigns and messaging that resonate on a human level.
5. Embrace the Deeper Discovery: Nate and Mark discussed the importance of engaging buyers with deep, pattern-breaking questions. Marketers should go beyond surface-level insights and leverage storytelling and illustrative examples in their strategies to provoke thoughtful buyer engagement and uncover the true drivers of purchase decisions.

Resources:

• How to Know a Person by David Brooks
• Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

Things to Listen for:

00:00 Sales reps trained poorly in industrialized model. 
05:11 Building relationships requires understanding and empathic accuracy. 
08:58 Reps need mindset shift for effective sales. 
11:50 Rachel, do you do commission pieces? Summary: Discussion about sales and diversity in selling. 
15:24 Evaluating mental effort and fatigue throughout the day. 
18:38 System two thinking in complex deal dynamics. 
21:01 Engage individually, personalize outreach and follow-ups. 
26:13 Building business cases requires deep discovery conversations. 
29:59 Emphasize positioning, change, and asking effective questions. 
33:47 Clarify objections, redo role play to assess. 
36:45 Applicants share unique opinions and personal projects. 
40:32 Using written content helps shave sales time. 
41:26 Creating message together, internalized value in writing. 
45:26 Diving deep into buyer's language for solutions. 
48:29 Remember seeing Rachel's old business case. 
51:34 "Thanks for having us, of course."

The TL;DR

Are you sick of spinning average products into marketing magic? Do you feel like a “poo polisher” as April calls it?

Today, April Dunford (Ambient Strategy), Kyle Lacy (Jellyfish), and Marcus Andrews (Pendo.io) dive into storytelling and how to write stories your sales team will actually use.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

TAILOR-MADE, ENTHRALLING STORYTELLING

Draw in your prospects with a compelling narrative that screams relevance. Skip the generic fluff. Dive deep into the psyche of your customer. Make them the hero of your story.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

WRITING BY COMMITTEE

Chuck out the too-many-cooks approach. Embrace a dedicated "words person." Quality trumps quantity, always. When storytelling is focused and centralized, your message not only resonates—it reverberates.

The key takeaways:

• The importance of positioning: Effective marketing starts with strong positioning. Understanding your competition, unique value proposition, and ideal customer fit are crucial for creating compelling stories and pitches.
• Tailored storytelling: Craft customized, engaging stories that resonate with your audience. Skip the generic fluff and make your prospects the heroes.
• Adaptability and regular review: To stay relevant and effective, regularly revisit and update your positioning and storytelling based on market changes, competitor actions, and customer feedback.
• Internal alignment and buy-in: Ensure alignment across your organization, especially with sales leaders. Their buy-in is crucial for successful implementation and consistency in messaging. Engage executives early in the storytelling process to secure their support.
• Measuring effectiveness: Use both quantitative metrics (conversion rates, deal sizes) and qualitative feedback (customer reactions, sales team input) to measure the effectiveness of your storytelling.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[02:02] "Polishing the poo" in marketing

[05:23] Challenges of corporate messaging and writing by committee

[09:42] Value proposition and its importance in storytelling

[12:04] Who owns the story in B2B marketing?

[16:38] Importance of differentiated value

[19:56] Revisiting and regularly updating positioning

[24:48] Adapting messaging to market changes

[26:29] Getting internal buy-in on storytelling

[28:53] Testing and iterating on new pitches

[34:36] Aligning sales and marketing teams with effective messaging

[39:12] Measuring the effectiveness of your story