The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools & Strategies (Hugh Ballou)

Clergy Leadership Challenges with Hugh Ballou In this short "T-Talk" (Transformation Talk) in the faith leader empowerment series, Hugh Ballou addresses the 5 top leadership challenges for clergy and all faith leaders: Self-Management Conflict Management Clarity of Vision Over Functioning Emotional Control Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture as a whole. In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model. Register for the Faith Leader Empowerment Series at http://iRecharge.live Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Working “ON” Your Business and not just “IN” Your Business with Mark Dobosz Business and Strategic Planning As a Routine Part of Your Business/Organization Mark Dobosz serves as Executive Director of the Western Sports Foundation. WSF provides health and wellness programs and financial assistance to western sports athletes in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Australia. Mark has spent over 35 years working in a variety of leadership roles and areas for not-for-profit organizations including development, marketing, public relations, community, and government relations operations and teaching. He has served in organizations that address community needs in the areas of education, health care, small business development, disabilities, and community development. Some of these include the SCORE Foundation, Out-of-Door Academy, the Mercy Health Care System, Easter Seals, Friends School in Detroit, and other independent schools. In the area of fundraising, Mark has been responsible for starting a foundation from the ground-level, multi-million-dollar campaigns, developing new fundraising programs, sponsorship programs, as well as expanding several annual giving, planned giving, and special events programs. Mark has helped raise more than $30 million for the organizations he has served. Mark has spoken extensively throughout his career on non-profit management, leadership and fundraising at various local, regional, and national conferences. He is a member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, ASAE – The Center for Association Leadership, and the American Bar Association. He is one of the contributing authors of the book “Do Your Giving While You’re Living” by Edie Fraser and Robyn Spizman, as well as the Editor and contributing author of – Business Planning Tools for Non-Profit Organizations – First and Second Editions. Mark recently served as Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors of The Office Depot Foundation and has served on the boards of several professional and non-profit organizations. He is a recipient of the CASE (Council for the Advancement and Support of Education) Circle of Excellence in Fundraising Award – the Council’s highest award, as well as, a 2010 recipient of the Listen Learn and Care Award from The Office Depot Foundation for his contributions to the not-for-profit sector. In addition to an undergraduate degree from St. Mary’s College, Mark holds Executive Certificates in Nonprofit Leadership and Management and, Transformational Nonprofit Leadership, from the Mendoza College of Business at the University of Notre Dame. About the interview in Mark’s words: One of my favorite reminders that I have repeatedly shared with entrepreneurs over the years is to remember to spend time working ON your business and not just IN your business. Being a small business owner puts you square in the crosshairs of finding yourself doing everything on any given day in order to make your business run successfully. So much so, that it has the ability to become all-consuming – either out of necessity to survive or just plain unplanned success. In both cases, seeing the forest for the trees often takes a back seat to sustaining your business and the chances for long-term success can be compromised. So how do you know when it’s time to take a step back? What are five (5) warning signs that you may be working too much IN your business and not enough ON your business? 1. You aren’t questioning enough anymore. You are just in a “move from project to project” mode and it’s all about just getting the work done and no time for anything else. 2. You aren’t listening enough anymore. You stop relying on those who are working with you or for you for insights and ideas and you think you need to have all of the answers to every problem that surfaces. 3. You think you have to control everything including the outcomes. You keep telling yourself that if you just do this and just do that you will get the desired results without recognizing which variables are in your control and which are not in your control. 4. You either lose the ability to admit you were wrong, or become so attached to your honest but naive loyalty to your ideas, or your strong sense of perseverance won’t stop and becomes unrealistic. In either situation, the result is ultimately the same outcome. You lose sight of the big picture, and you escalate your commitment to following a path that is leading you in circles instead of moving you forward. 5. You have used the phrase more than once in the past two weeks – “I just don’t have the time to do anything else!” Once you begin to rationalize NOT taking the time is a clear sign that you have started down a path of potential misfires and bad decisions. If you find that you have experienced one or more of these warning signs recently, do yourself and your business a favor and STOP. Take a half-day for yourself and get out of your own way and go to spend time away from your office and business and think about where you want your business to be in 3 months, 6 months a year. Dust off that business plan and see how close you are to the plan with your current state of affairs. Remember, Albert Einstein, said it best – “Insanity is best defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Hero's Journey: Interview with Robert Althuis We typically believe "intelligence" only resides in our mind; however, as the HearthMath Institute has scientifically proven our heart is actually also a center of intelligence including a vast network of neurons. In fact, there's more data going from our heart to our mind than the other way around. The intelligence of our heart is of a different quality though. Whereas our mind's intelligence resides in logic and linear thinking which all comes from our neocortex, our heart is the portal to our higher knowing or the intelligence of life itself. We access this intelligence through mastery of the language of the heart which is feeling, sensing, knowing (vs thinking), and intuiting. When our heart becomes the master and our mind an instrument in service to the master we come to a new level of understanding, insight, and solutions which makes us more awakened leaders. Robert Althuis is the Founder of the Sacred Wealth Institute, a mindfulness organization that provides coaching, strategies, tools, and techniques to help private clients and businesses embody their full potential. In addition, Mr. Althuis is the founder of Wayfare Holdings, a boutique impact investment firm for his personal real estate and entrepreneurial interests. Mr. Althuis is also a Venture Partner at Keen Growth Capital, an impact investment private equity firm based in Orlando, and serves as an Advisory Board Member for Bulltick’s alternative investments real estate fund. In 2021, Mr. Althuis published his first book titled Never Enoughitis. Mr. Althuis launched Wayfare in early 2009 with the acquisition of a 50% ownership position in Lynxs, a leading international transportation infrastructure development firm based in Austin, Texas. Prior to acquiring an ownership position in Lynxs, Mr. Althuis was a Senior Vice President in the Airport Infrastructure group of GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS). At GECAS, Mr. Althuis served as the lead originator for the Americas Region of the Airport Infrastructure group and was instrumental in structuring Global Infrastructure Partners, a then $6 billion infrastructure investment fund sponsored by GE and Credit Suisse as well as the acquisition of numerous operating companies and real assets on behalf of GECAS where he also served as a board member on behalf of GE. Mr. Althuis started his career at GE Capital in an executive management program in 2002 and joined GECAS on a full-time basis in 2003 and was promoted to GE’s executive band in 2006. In his initial role in GECAS, as a member of the structured finance team, Mr. Althuis closed in excess of $1.5 billion of aviation-related debt and equity financings. Mr. Althuis, who has dual nationality from The Netherlands and the United States, holds a B.B.A., summa cum laude, with a major in Real Estate from Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia, and an M.B.A., with distinction, with a major in Finance & Management from Columbia Business School in New York City. In addition, Mr. Althuis is a certified member of the CCIM Institute and a licensed real estate broker in three states. Mr. Althuis began his career in commercial real estate acquisition and development in 1995; his last position before joining GE was Vice President and Division Manager of the commercial real estate activities of a diversified real estate firm in Atlanta, Georgia. Mr. Althuis resides in Coral Gables, Florida, and is a father, artist, avid yogi (RYT-200), kite surfer, crossfit athlete, and an active dive volunteer with the Coral Restoration Foundation in the Florida Keys where he previously served as a Board Member. For more information about Robert Althuis and his work, go to https://www.robertalthuis.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Barriers to High Performing Teams: How Great Leaders Clear the Path Your sole objective is to fulfill the mission for which your organization was created within financial resource constraints, quickly, efficiently, with high quality, and high customer satisfaction. Great leaders access the inherent intrinsic motivation people bring to work creating high engagement, performance, and meaning in the work. Kevin Herring is the founder of Ascent Management Consulting and a recognized expert in team and business unit turnarounds. He is the creator of the 90-day Turnaround, a unique program for building great leaders and transforming any workgroup into a highly engaged, high-performing team in just 90 days. Kevin is a consultant, executive coach, published author, and keynote speaker. He has been published and quoted in Forbes, CFO, Talent Management, Workforce, and HR Executive among others. More information about Kevin Herring at - https://ascentmgt.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why Every Nonprofit Needs to Incorporate Business Structures NOW with Joseph Imbriano Joseph Imbriano is the founder and CEO of OmniKai, a transformational coaching agency that helps leaders around the world overcome crises, build sustainable organizations that shape a better tomorrow.. ​​ OmniKai helps social impact companies, non profit organization, small businesses and startups, simplify, systemize, hire the right teams, and communicate their vision so that they can turn their vision into real sustainable impact. Joseph has been helping leaders in crisis since 2003, working all over the work, in China, Africa, Australia, Latin America, and here in the USA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rod Brooks has served as CEO of Rise Against Hunger since July 2006. He provides leadership and direction toward the achievement of the organization’s mission to end world hunger, focusing on service programs, fundraising, financial and administrative management. Rod has spent nearly twenty years working in the non-profit sector. Prior to directing Rise Against Hunger, Rod worked for 16 years creating Exploris (now titled Marbles Kid’s Museum), an interactive museum about the world, ultimately serving as Vice President for Administration. Rise Against Hunger is driven by the vision of a world without hunger. Our mission is to end hunger in our lifetime by providing food and life-changing aid to the world’s most vulnerable and creating a global commitment to mobilize the necessary resources. Driving Rise Against Hunger’s work is the recognition that ending hunger is more than just feeding people, which led Rise Against Hunger to focus its feeding programs in areas where we can have a real impact and expand its hunger-fighting programs beyond meal packaging and distribution. Our organization’s approach to ending hunger centers on mobilizing a global network of hunger champions. Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made. Our third approach to eradicating hunger centers around grassroots community empowerment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chuck Wisner, author of "The Art of Conscious Conversation." Chuck shared his fascinating journey from being a trained percussionist and architect to becoming a thought leader in the realm of communication and conversation transformation. We delved into the importance of listening, a skill often underutilized in leadership. Chuck emphasized that true listening requires us to manage our inner dialogue and judgments, allowing us to be fully present and absorb different perspectives. He highlighted that self-reflection is crucial for developing emotional intelligence, which in turn enhances our ability to listen with empathy and compassion. Chuck's book is structured around four archetypal types of conversations: storytelling, collaborative conversations, creative conversations, and commitment conversations. Each type serves as a building block for effective communication, enabling us to better understand ourselves and others. He provided practical insights on how to navigate conflicts by focusing on shared desires and principles, rather than getting caught up in disagreements. As we wrapped up, Chuck encouraged listeners to embrace the power of questions over answers, fostering a mindset of curiosity and openness. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to improve their communication skills, especially nonprofit leaders who face unique challenges in their work. For more information, you can visit Chuck's website at chuckwisner.com, where you can find resources related to his book and articles on leadership and communication. Thank you for joining us for this enlightening conversation! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Cautionary Tale – Corporate Lessons applied to Entrepreneurship: How to Identify and Avoid Future Disasters Interview with Dan Goodwin Have you ever had a time when there was a nagging doubt about a certain person or situation? Ever wonder how confidential information is being handled and protected within your organization? Do you know if your employees/volunteers understand the parameters of your mission, passion, and vision? These three items: people, processes, and communication all directly impact your ability to lead and encompass what is needed to be protected at all costs. Primarily, your reputation. When bad things happen, it impacts the organization, not just the person who committed the wrongdoing. While having a great reactive response plan, it has better results with you invest proactively to eliminate those future nasty surprises. Let me share some of my experiences and observations spanning both corporate and entrepreneurial experiences. Dan Goodwin Dan Goodwin completed his lengthy corporate career in 2007 as an internal investigator and transitioned into a business owner, coach, mentor, consultant, and teacher. Dan uses his unique talents and training of interview and interrogation techniques to assist entrepreneurs as they prepare and/or revise their business plans. Dan’s interactive style makes him unique in his ability to communicate to the complete range of business contacts, whether that be solo entrepreneurs or C-level executives. In addition to in-person appearances, Dan leverages technology and uses video and webinar training as a part of his follow-up sessions. Dan brings a large network of contacts and is fiercely loyal to those whom he endorses. When considering a business coach, conference keynote speaker, or simply want to explore a new business idea, you can reach Dan at Dan@CYAConsulting.Services Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fool-Proof Facilitation Practices You can trust the experience and wisdom of any group using tried and true facilitation methods. They will surprise you, and themselves when given a solid, reliable process and a neutral facilitator. As President of Vital Clarity, Kathleen Osta designs and facilitates participatory meetings that help organizations fulfill their purpose. She has mastery of consensus facilitation methods that articulate and build alignment within groups. With 30 years of experience applying these methods in a wide range of settings and fields, her intent is always to draw out the best thinking and creativity from all participants. She specializes in organizational and personal strategic planning, and change management and has experience as a trainer of facilitation methods. She says, “My professional career began in human services in 1972 when I held positions such as manager, public relations professional, and development director. I dedicated 12 years to programs that serve families with young and adult children with cognitive and physical challenges. Since 1989 I have focused on leading groups to develop and implement realistic strategic plans. Equipped to work within many professional arenas, I have a depth of experience in the local government and private sectors, the disability field, social services, health care, nonprofit mergers, education, collaborations, and marketing. I have a B.A. in Sociology from Nazareth College of Rochester, N.Y., and 30+ years of management and consulting experience. I am a charter member of the Arizona Organization Development Network, a member of the Technology of Participation (ToP) Trainers Network, and the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce. As a mentor trainer of the Institute of Cultural Affairs’ “Technology of Participation® and Facilitation Methods” course, I have equipped hundreds of leaders with the tools and benefits of facilitative leadership. I am also certified to conduct “The Power Within Change” program developed by ChangeWorks Global. I founded and led AshevilleConnects for three years, a community initiative dedicated to information and resource sharing across a wide range of community sectors. Through candid dialogues and speed-dating style information-sharing sessions, delightful coincidences and collaborations were hatched and community members made good use of previously untapped resources. For more information go to https://www.vitalclarity.com/ I am committed to designing and offering experiences that entice individuals and groups to move beyond their previous limits. #KathleenOsta #HughBallou #TheNonprofitExchange #TeamMeetings #BoardMeetings https://SynerVisionLeadership.org  http://TheNonprofitExchange.org  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't Let Your Emotions Hijack your Success: Emotional Intelligence in Leadership Leadership is more than just organizational, technical and tactical skills; it involves relational skills. Emotional intelligence allows all types of leaders to navigate the relational, behavioral, and cultural aspects of leading an organization. In order to succeed, one must master the skills of managing his/her own emotions and navigating the emotions of others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fostering and Supporting Emerging Leaders: Interview with Dorien Porter A Senior at Liberty studying Politics from Georgia. Dorien Porter has served our community in many different facets. First at Liberty within its SGA and now as the Executive President of our area’s Rotaract Club. Dorien is the outcome of Generational service above self-believers through military service fighting for the United States.  Dorien Brings countless invaluable leadership experiences and religion to the political table with grace and truth, to lay the foundation for the upcoming generations. As FDR once said, we cannot always build the future for our youth but we can make our youth for the future, and Dorien is heading the four fronts here in our community to bring the future young professionals together here in the Lynchburg Area Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pioneering Leadership: The New Frontier for Leaders There is a lot being asked of Leaders, especially at this time of human evolution. There is so much uncertainty where old paradigms are just not enough for the changing times. It’s an exciting time to explore what is needed for our future and what legacy we will leave in the following generations. Linda Conyard is Australia's leading pioneer advocating for socio-political trauma-sensitive change and informed responsiveness to UNnecessary trauma in the Health, Education, Justice, Government, and Private sectors. She recognizes the transgenerational effect collective trauma has on our current society and is at the leading edge of healing and transformation in this field. Linda’s daughter's trauma at the very young age of 6 months was from a diagnosis of rare childhood cancer that affects the retina in the eye (she survived and was left totally blind by the age of 3) and the unfolding recognition of her own significant and long term childhood trauma from living in hidden domestic violence led her to her studies and subsequently her own trauma recovery. She became the therapist she wished she could have found. She is determined to change the trajectory of trauma on a collective, cultural, community, family, and individual level and eliminate all UNnecessary trauma through education and training in trauma sensitivity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Collaboration and Authenticity in Nonprofit t Leadership Transcript of the Interview with Joe Homs Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. This guest today is a connection through the co-host, Russell David Dennis. And Russell, you met this guy a few years ago, right? Russell Dennis: A few years ago, yes. They were doing an interesting project that helped you expand your mind. Since that time, he has gone light years ahead of that. Don’t let that youthful appearance that you’re about to see fool you. This man is loaded. He’s got lots of learning, brings lots of experience to the table. He’s doing things to help people be more authentic, and he is all about collaboration. That’s our language. I’ve got a bio here that’s just to brag him up, but I’ll let him tell you about himself. Go for it, young Joe Homes. Joe Homes:  All right. So hi, everybody. My name is Joe. Last name is Homes. And, I’m now a partner at a company called Your Charisma Coach. And we teach people how to charismatically influence people to just kind of be a force for good in the world, to really connect and to share your own humanity with someone else and really to just again be a force for good in the world. We teach people through seminars, products, things like that. For myself, I came up a backwards way in industry, in jobs or whatever. My first job was at a venture capital firm, which most people don’t start out with; they usually are successful entrepreneurs or something like that, and then they take all their money and invest there. I started there and was just the jack of all trades and worked my way up. I eventually became the entrepreneur in residence role. I got exposed to a lot of different companies, a lot of different industries, a lot of different things. Then I went to college, so I started doing that job when I was like 17. It was ridiculous. Then went to college, finished out that fund, and became a management consultant. Traveled around the world, did all kinds of stuff there. My job essentially ever since has been going into organizations, and make people act quickly, get in contact with them, know them, sometimes better than they know themselves, and help them fix problems and collaborate and do that kind of thing. I met some friends a few years ago, and we were at a seminar together. All of us are doing our own different things. These other two gentlemen are very successful in their own right. We all decided to come together and create something amazing. I just joined this company as a new partner. We are just so happy to basically connect the world because we see, at least I see the world going in a couple of different ways. One is where technology, software is eating the world. That was my old world. I have a degree in computer science. Software is doing amazing, cool technological things. The other way that the world I see is going is we are in a connection economy. We are in that place where you reach out on Facebook: Who is the best plumber in my neighborhood? You reach out to a connection that you met years ago, like I reached out to you Russell because I saw something go by on LinkedIn. I haven’t spoken to him in a while; let me see how I can connect. I ended up being here on your podcast. This is great, of course, but it’s just a wonderful thing where you can just go up and connect with people. We saw those two things happening, where technology and psychology are diverging. We wanted to bring them back together and give people a chance to connect with their fellow human beings and show people how to do that. Charisma is a skill. It’s something you can learn. It’s something you can always get better at. It’s an interesting thing. I hope that suffices to say who I am and what I do. Russell: It does to a degree, but man, there is so much more there that is phenomenal. You talk about the word “charisma.” A lot of people think that charisma, they look at a figure that is out there, that everybody knows, somebody like a Les Brown or a Dave Austin or a Dan Car? That is full of energy, high profile, extroverted, but that’s not who everybody is. When it comes to nonprofits or for-purpose businesses, that is what they really are, relationships are everything. I think we went through a period in our society of extreme narcissism, and now people are starting to understand that no matter what you do, relationships are at the center of that. A lot of people probably feel like they’re in the dark. You either have all of this juice and charisma. You’re either open or you’re not. That is not necessarily the case because everybody’s a little bit different. My first question is: Is there a natural tendency for people to step away from their authentic selves in order to try to make an impression on others? Joe: Absolutely. And you’re correct that not everybody is Oprah. I would posit that you don’t need to be. We already have Oprah. She is great at being Oprah. I personally am not Oprah. I don’t want to be. My business partner is completely different from me. Russ, you’re different. Hugh, you’re different. We are all different. That’s what makes us that much more valuable. There is definitely a natural tendency for people to step away from their own greatness. They look at those very charismatic people who are out there showing the world who they really are. The natural tendency for people to step away sadly happens to most of us in the Western world for various reasons, social circles telling us we’re not good enough, the media giving us unrealistic expectations of who we should be or what life should be like. You’ve got to realize that most people are afraid to express who they are. That natural tendency is definitely there, but I look at people who eventually get to a point in their lives. It’s usually someone who is a little older, and they realize basically no one else cares, so why should they? You look at someone who is old enough, experienced enough, and they just don’t care anymore. They’re truly who they are. They’re themselves. They just go, “You know what? I’m just gonna be me.” Those people are the most interesting people to meet, to talk to, to work with because they’re just being themselves. I’d say that yes, there is a natural tendency to step away from being their authentic selves, mostly because there is fear there. If there is, it’s hard for you to be silent with another person, if it’s hard for you to go out there and express yourself, if you’re constantly having to say, “I’m going to fake it until I make it,” an authentic person doesn’t have to fake it. They’re going to say, “This is me.” Look to reducing that fear for yourself to help yourself there. Russell: I prefer “Act as if,” to “Fake it ‘til you make it” because you’re not putting up a façade or trying to be something you’re not. I think that throws people out of their greatness because really the further we move away from our authentic selves, the less greatness we have. You work with business leaders from Fortune 100 companies. You work with nonprofit leaders. You work with government entities, a little bit of everybody. People interact. It’s all about relationships. How might the idea that people think they have to put up a certain impression, how could that hamper them in their role as a nonprofit leader or business leader or government leader? Joe: The important word there is “leader.” In business, in life, in government, in for-purpose businesses or nonprofits, however you want to call it, you’re there to lead for a change. If you’re going to step away from your greatness, that is going to hamper your ability to actually lead. An invisible magnet sit sin between people. It’s called trust. We have huge sections of our brain that are dedicated, hard-wired to figure out congruency, trusting people. As human beings, we have to evolve over many thousands of years to learn: Is this person taking advantage? Is this person contributing to the group? We’re very good at sensing any incongruence. When you have an incongruence, you don’t trust that person. If you don’t trust that person- Think about it. If you didn’t trust someone, could you really be influenced by them? If someone is holding a gun to your head, you can’t really trust them. They might influence you in that moment to get what they want done, right? But if the external threat is removed, you don’t trust that person. You can’t rely on their word. You can’t rely on them to say what they’re going to do. If I say, “I’m going to take this left turn, and I go right,” that erodes some trust. Sure, there are different things in life where you say you’re going to do one thing and circumstances make you have to do another. That’s fine. Again, if you’re the kind of person who says, “You know what? I promised you this; this happened. Here is how I’m going to make it right,” an apology makes all the difference. We make mistakes. We all screw up somehow in our lives. It’s the way we get back into trusting relationships with the people around us that really matters. If you are going to step away from being your authentic self, people will see an incongruence. They may not necessarily know what it is. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but they will say, “I don’t know. I don’t know about that person. I don’t know if I can trust them.” So it will hamper your ability to be a leader in the world, to get the change that you’re looking for in the world. If you’re not going to be your authentic self, whomever that is- There are people out there who are, as far as I would be concerned, super weird. I’m not just gonna connect with that person. But they are totally authentic. And their audience is massive and exploding because the people who love them are there with them. The people who don’t, mostly it’s just like, “I don’t care. I won’t pay attention.” Being authentic creates trust. It creates relationship. If you step away from that, you’re only hurting yourself and your cause. Russell: I think one of the important qualities that leaders in nonprofits recognize is this need to influence people. You have to influence people to serve on your board. You have to influence people to give to your cause. You have to influence people to use your services. Probably a lot like other businesses, this notion of influence makes people very uncomfortable. One of the troubles that I have seen leaders have in all types of organizations is this need to be a Superman or a Superwoman, where the buck stops here and they get it all done. How much of that have you run into? What are some of the problems you’ve seen that people have created for themselves as far as being able to build good collaborative connections that serve both parties? Joe: This is a multi-part question. In terms of people being a little bit worried about influencing and leadership, the right kind of leadership that you want is the kind where you go first, where you’re the one out ahead, forging the path, doing the thing that you, creating the world that you want to see. If you’re doing that the right way, people will follow you. The very definition of being a leader. If you are having to convince someone and cajole someone and force someone into a position, you’re not really leading. You’re forcing. And the idea of force versus influence is an important distinction. I could force lots of things to happen in my company, in my relationships, in my life. But force requires constant attention. It requires you to always be there forcing the issue. Eventually, force tends to backfire. The idea of physics: If you are pushing on something, whatever force you have, an action has an equal and opposite reaction. You want to be leading someone. You want to be pulling them along rather than pushing them along. That’s first. That’s what true influence and authenticity is about. You’re saying, “Look, this is the world that I’m creating. Do you want to help me create it? Let’s go! However you want to join is going to be up to you, of course.” The second part of: How do people go wrong? How do they get trapped in this? They will have several complexes. One is that savior complex of, “I’m the one who has to do this.” They feel that if they are not the one to do it, they somehow won’t get credit. They won’t feel good at the end of the day. But you look at massive organizations that tends to have to be a way—human beings, we set this up—is what business doesn’t have one or two leaders at the top? Do they get all the work done in these massive organizations? Absolutely not. What they’ve done and their real contribution is systems, to delegate, to make this kind of thing happen. Stories that I hear where people do well by themselves in this is companies like Toyota. Massive corporations. They didn’t use to be as massive as they are now ,but still pretty big. They’re making cars for the American market. Long story short, any worker at Toyota could just stop the line. They had a little pull chain. You pull it like this, and this entire lane of cars, hundreds of cars in a row on the assembly line, just stops. Everyone rushes over and realizes there is a problem here that they have to fix. We have to fix it for good, not just fix it today. If someone collapses, that’s obviously not good. But that is a system you have to put in place. Why did that person collapse? The idea of the five Why’s comes out there. You’re asking Why? five times in a row. You get to the root cause of the issue there. You can read about that kind of stuff. The other stories I remember of this guy I know is named Derek Sivers. He had a company called CD Baby for a long time. He sold it in an interesting way. He created a nonprofit that pays him while he is living. When he is gone, it is going to go toward music education. Very interesting  guy. If you ever need to look him up, I believe it’s Sivers.org. Really cool guy. What he did when he realized he was the bottleneck of his company is he did the same thing. He would get a question from one of his employees. He would stop and say we would create a system that solves this problem for the company. I never want to have to deal with this again. For the first few weeks, it was hell. I don’t want to have to do this. He took the initiative. He led, and then he showed his team, “This is the way that I think. This is where the idea of culture comes in. Let me show you how I think about this kind of thing. Then you guys get to go and do this.” Eventually he said, “You guys come up with your own systems and your own things.” Eventually, he was able to exit the company because he had created this massive set of systems that let the company run and become its own organization and make its own way. Russell: And that is the work that SynerVision does. We teach people- Joe: Absolutely. Russell: How to implement systems that serve them and move them forward. Through creation of systems, co-creation of systems, everything comes together. In order to make an impression on people, good leaders need charisma. We talked about charisma. Marcus on Facebook asks, “What is your favorite book on charisma?” Joe: Ooh. Marcus, it’s funny, is one of my partners. He is trolling me a bit. Let’s see. Russell: He wants to make sure you are not sleeping in the board meeting. Joe: One of my favorite books on charisma is a book. I’m going to have to look up the name here. Give me a second. One of my favorite books is, there is a book called The Way of the Superior Man. I like this book because it’s got a few really good insights in it. For me, I read this book about once a year just because I find it so interesting. Don’t let the title scare you away if you’re a woman. In fact, if you’re a woman, you should read this because it’ll help you understand the men in your life to a greater extent than I think a lot of self-help and development stuff might show you otherwise. We talked earlier about being authentic is one of the best ways of being charismatic. Without that authenticity, people aren’t going to trust you. They’re going to wonder are you for real? This book at least for me broke down what it’s like to be a man in modern society, what you need to know, and helped me figure out. I remember there is a chapter in the book that says, Pretend your father is gone, that he’s dead, that he has no more influence on you. What are you going to do now? I had to sit with that one for a while because my dad is one of my heroes. He is an important figure in my life. We also go about life in different ways. When I read that chapter, I remember going like, “You know, I’m going to choose this path for my life rather than another one.” It’s an important book, I think, that people may not consider to be a leadership and influence book, but it helps you to discover yourself a bit more, especially as a man, but also again as a woman to understand yourself, too. We also have masculine and feminine parts of ourselves. Identities that we play into. Really good book. I would recommend that one to people. Hugh: Can I punctuate that, Russ? Joe, what generation are you in? Russell and I, we’re both boomers, aren’t we? Russell: Yep. We are crusty. We have been around for a long time. I plan to be around for a lot longer. Hugh: Crusty. So which generation are you in, Joe? Joe: I believe it’s X. And maybe on the cusp of millennial. Hugh: Russell and I are champions of transformational leadership. You’re anchored in your authenticity. You model, you practice what you preach. You model what you want to see. As a musical conductor, that comes back to me instantly. Your culture is what they see in you. Authenticity is a real key. When you talk about millennials, that is a key factor. It’s a key factor, I think, more than any other generation. They don’t want to put up with the BS they have seen us boomers create. We are on our way out of some corporate jobs and church jobs and nonprofit jobs. They come in with a whole different sense. There is a similar set of values. When you’re looking at this community of collaborative thinking, how does this authenticity-? That is a really interesting book. I am hearing you talk about reading it again. I want to probe that authenticity as far as generations, how does that affect collaborations? As you read the book, tell me if you see different things every time you look at it. Joe: I’ll answer the last question first. I see different things out of it every time I read it because I am a different person every time I read it. That is not the only book I read. My viewpoints change. My life changes. My circumstances change. I had a son a few years ago. When I- before having him and after having him, my life drastically changed in terms of the things I was doing, the businesses I had, and all kinds of stuff. But some of my risk tolerances changed for instance, like I used to go skydiving and motorcycle riding. You name an extreme or dangerous sport. I was there. Kite surfing. You name it. After I had my son, I said, “You know what? I’m going to hold off on that for a while.” I know there are people who would agree with that. I know there are people who would disagree. A bunch of the people I used to do things with were like, “What? Just because you have a kid, that doesn’t change.” But honestly it changed for me. What’s most important to me is going to be less important perhaps to someone else. To me, some of my most important values are family and freedom. I like to spend time with my family. I like to be the man around the house that’s fixing my house. I fix stuff around here all the time. My life changed, and so in reading that book again, I got the one chapter I talked about, imagine your father is dead, I imagined myself as being dead and what I would want my son to know. I wrote some stuff down in a letter. It’s in a fireproof safe or whatever. If I was ever gone prematurely, my son could get hopefully some of my wisdom passed along to him in some way. The book doesn’t change, but I change enough that I notice different things in the book. It makes all the difference. That’s why I read it about once a year. In terms of your other question, authenticity between generations, I don’t think people are less authentic or more authentic between these generations. I think that technology has made certain things a bit more magnified than they were in the past. You look at stuff like: We’re on Facebook live right now. Potentially thousands of people could be seeing this at the moment, whereas right now we are talking as this is a personal conversation between us three. These kinds of things have changed the social dynamics of where we’re at generationally but also just as human beings. Normally, this would just be between us, and we’d get a good impression of each other. Maybe we’d learn some things, and we’d go off to our separate activities. Now this is recorded. People can watch this over and over. Hundreds of people are watching this outside of just us three. We have a different take. Human beings, when we know we are being recorded, when we know someone else can listen to this later, we edit our speech. We do these things commonly. I have gotten to the point in my life where it’s like this is me. This is who I am. I’m going to express myself in the best way that I know how. Like I said, I’m not Oprah, nor do I want to be. I’m Joe. Nice to meet you. If one of my business partners Marcus was on here, he’d be joking with you guys a bit more. He’s the more funny guy of our little group, and we love him for it. Marcus exudes this charisma in his own special way. Another partner of mine, Johnny, he’s the hard-charging, intense guy that if you ever want something done, ask Johnny because he will just get it done until it’s done. I am more the reserved type, but it works for all of us. If there is much of a generational gap, it’s just because people have different values. They have different ideas of what they think life should be like, how they should conduct themselves. If you just look at the other person and look at what they care about the most, what they value, you’ll find you have a lot more in connection than you think. You guys have probably seen the movie The Breakfast Club for instance. There is the stoner kid. There is the outcast. There is the jock. There is the whatever. Ostensibly, we all went through that kind of high school experience. Many of these groups don’t really come together. All of these kids had detention on the weekend. It sucks. They’re there, but they’re all different. What they come to realize of course is that they’re all very similar. They all have the same struggles in life. They all have hard things going on. They all realize they can support each other. It’s a great movie, a great metaphor for how I think different social groups and generations can come together and realize we are all human beings. We are all here to live our lives. We are all here to connect with people. We are all here to collaborate, communicate, do all those good things. When you realize that powerful things can happen. Russell: These are the types of tools I use working with people. These are the tools we use with SynerVision: try to look at how all these different pieces and parts put together. The strength comes in the variety and diversity across different areas of knowledge, different skills, different personalities. The more you have, to find that common ground is phenomenal. This is what collaboration is about. I think a lot of people are afraid to look at collaborating because they feel that there is a piece of something that they’re going to lose out on if they collaborate with other people. It’s a scarcity mindset. Have you found that in business in general? I know we find it in nonprofits. What are some of the things you do to help people get comfortable with that and back up and understand how the differences that people have aren’t as scary as they think they are? Joe: Yeah. You’re totally right. The differences that people have are actually their strengths. An example I use when I talk about collaboration is when I was running a team in Atlanta, great city if you’re ever there or want to go there, it’s awesome—I was working for this really large corporation. Being a management consultant, I am staying in a hotel all week and living out of a suitcase. The hotel gives these little soaps and shampoos. I don’t have a lot of hair. It’s not long. I only need very little. Russell: It could be worse. Joe: It could be worse, right? But hey, I don’t need a lot of shampoo. I definitely don’t need all the lotion they give you. It’s hot and humid down there. I’m good. I would often just look at these and leave them in the room or throw them away. One day, I went, “There’s got to be something I can do with these.” I set up a box. I had about 40 employees working for me at the time. I set up this box in our team room. 40 people in their hotel rooms at the end of the week would throw their extra shampoos and conditioners and the hotel stuff that the hotel was going to throw away anyway because they can’t really use this stuff. They put this all in a box. I went and took this box once it was full, it was just 100 pounds of stuff, I took it down to a local shelter and said, “Hey, this is for you guys.” They’re like, “Whoa, what’s this?” They got very excited because people need this hygiene stuff. “It’s here for you. Take it.” That could have been the end of it. But I decided to- At Your Charisma Coach, we say, “Find your edge.” I went, “You know, this isn’t enough. I gotta go one step further.” What I did was I said, “I am going to come next time with another box of this. Would you mind when I do this if I called up a news producer here in Atlanta, and we’ll do a little news segment on your work here? I don’t want this to be about me. I want this to be about you. But that will use what I’m doing as the in because it’s news-worthy to do this.” They said, “Yeah, absolutely.” In the next month or so, I got enough of these bottles again and called up a news producer and said, “I am going to go down to this thing. I am donating 100 pounds of shampoo, conditioner, all that stuff. I think it would be interesting if you talked to these people, interviewed them, talked about why this was important to them, how it is going to help, and everything else.” The news producer said, “Absolutely, this is great. I’ll meet you down there.” I met them down there, and I had the nonprofit do a quick interview about why this helps, what we were doing. I got on screen for a few minutes, not even a few minutes, like 30 seconds, and said, “Hi, I am a local guy doing this. I think it’s important to support our local communities.” That kind of stuff. Through that news story, a ton of the hotels around have consultants there. They all started their own programs to be able to do this. It got to the point where this particular organization couldn’t handle any more of the donations, so they started sending them out to other organizations in the city. The word got back to my corporate headquarters. They started doing this in every other city that they were in. This consulting company was all around the world. Around the world, people unlocked this potential. What’s the key takeaway there? I looked at this as abundant thinking. I have this resource. I’m not using it. Maybe someone else can. The news media needs a story for the day. Great. I helped them create a story. That story helped influence a ton of people to say, “I could do that, too,” and they started doing that. Everyone in the community got to raise up. I couldn’t have done that on my own. I couldn’t be buying thousands of dollars of shampoo and donating it. Sure, I could do that. That would be where it stops. Instead of forcing myself to do that or forcing my employees to do that, I said, “Guys, I’m going to do this first If you want to join me, great. Then I will have other people get involved with their unique skills, gifts, abilities, and talents. We are all going to collaborate together.” When I look at companies and they say, “I don’t know how to communicate or collaborate. They’ll take my clients or my customers away,” I’d say, “Look to find someone who you can partner with. Look for someone to collaborate with who can do something you can’t.” You guys together, one’s chocolate, one’s peanut butter, together, you’re even better. Why not look at life that way where it’s a positive sum game? The more that you put in and collaborate with people, the more you will get out than you would individually. Russell: Abundant thinking. That sounds like a quality that leaders should have, especially nonprofit leaders. How do you help them tap into the notion of abundant thinking? Put that into practice. Joe: Oh boy. That would take perhaps a little while longer than we have here, but I’ll give the short answer. When you are collaborating with people, one of the best ways to do that is to listen to them, to find out what they actually need and want. When I want to collaborate more with people, individuals or businesses, for instance, a friend of mine was looking for a job. She has a decent one already. She just didn’t like where she’s at. She feels she is stagnating there; she wants to grow. I took it upon myself without her asking- A couple friends of mine are looking to hire in the same kind of role she is in. I sent them a message that said, “Hey, you need to reach out to this person because this person is great. They can do really good work. They are kind of looking for a move, but they don’t know where to go yet. Can you reach out to them for 10 minutes and talk to them?” Fast forward a week later. I get this call, like, “I just got this offer from apparently a friend of yours? What did you do?” We say this at Your Charisma Coach as well. We try to put rabbits in hats. The other phrase is we put treasure in a chest. She didn’t ask me to do this. I didn’t have to do this. I look for opportunities to say, “How can I serve this person? How can I make it so that they’ll get to shine in their own lives?” In a five-minute, ten-minute call from me to a couple of friends of mine, I got her a great job. She loves where she’s at. My friends as well who had the company are ecstatic because they have someone who wasn’t really even on the market. They didn’t even know they were looking for her. They got a great fit. That was my gift essentially to all of them. I looked at it as like, Could I have gotten a fee for doing that? I recruited her. Sure. But the best way to collaborate with people is that you just give to them. You don’t have a need to collaborate with them. I don’t really want to collaborate with people. I’m not going to say, “Will you please collaborate with me?” It’s more like I am out there doing cool stuff in the world. I want to make it so people are knocking down my door to collaborate with me. Do something interesting. Going back, be authentic. Be the organization, the person that you are in life, in the world, and people then kind of show up. At Your Charisma Coach, we have people emailing us, “How can I work for you? How can we intern for you? I will do unpaid work. I don’t care what it is. I just want to be around you and absorb whatever it is that you have and maybe some of it will rub off on me.” We don’t actually go out and look for most of these things. People show up because we are being who we are. That is so interesting to people. It’s so, for lack of a better word, charismatic to people that they will want to collaborate with you. If you are having trouble collaborating with someone, look to yourself, be someone who you would want to collaborate with, and you’ll find people starting to come out of the woodwork. Then all it takes is a dose of creativity. The example I gave before is, I had something that was going to waste. I guarantee you there is waste in your organization in some other way that it’s something you’re doing, or something like this, a conversation between high-level business people that would normally just be between them, record it, send it to an audience. Some people will like that. Other people won’t. That’s okay. But you will find people who resonate with those kinds of things you’re doing. They will want to contribute and collaborate. There will always be people who want to compete and tear things down. I don’t really pay attention to them. I look for the people who want to create more in life, to make something better in the world. I go, “You’re doing that. Great.” There is a charity in the UK. It’s called The Loneliness Project. We are looking to do some collaborations with them as well. We’re not going to be like, “Please collaborate with us.” We are going, “Hey, we’re helping people be more charismatic. Your message and our message are closely aligned. If you’d like to work with us, great. If you wouldn’t, great. We will still support you anyway. We hope to send some people and some attention your way.” We’re there to give. We’re there to give all the time. We are not looking to force anyone into some interaction with us, but just to have fun. Hugh: Joe, speaking of drilling down on nonprofits, charities, for-purpose organizations, there is not really experience and knowledge on collaboration. We’re duplicating efforts with multiple charities in the community. They are competing for donor dollars. What do you think is the bridge to help similar charities that are even local or around the country, what is the barrier that charities, leaders in nonprofits need to consider to break through to- Russell and I see collaboration as opening up a vault to a lot more success. What is the biggest barrier, and what is the antidote to that? Joe: The biggest barrier to collaboration? I’d say the biggest barrier to collaboration is value misalignment. If you value one thing and I value another, then it’s gonna be difficult for us to collaborate. I would say don’t partner with those kinds of people. Don’t collaborate with them. You just won’t have a good time. You could make it work. You could force things to happen. But again, that is force versus influence. But if you both want the same thing, if you both have the same kind of mission, then it’s easy for you to say, “You know what? There is more than enough donor dollars to go around.” Believe me, there is. There is so much cash available in the world; it’s just finding it and creating it in some cases that becomes the interesting challenge. Hugh: Sometimes the people who have the closest alignment, the most similar values, the most overlapping missions, see each other as competitors. Besides if they are aligned, what are some more barriers to thinking collaboratively from a leadership standpoint? Joe:  That scarcity mindset of there is so many donor dollars to go around. That is just a belief. It’s not true. I haven’t seen that to be true in my experience. That is one of the biggest things that stops people from collaborating. They think that they do that. I think also another example is that many people don’t have examples of how to do this. They don’t know. It just doesn’t occur to them that it might be possible to collaborate with another organization that maybe has a very similar mission or a very different one. They just don’t do it. It’s like saying, “Well, I didn’t consider that I could use my car to drive to the store, but I drive to work every day.” It’s the same stuff. You’re just going to a different kind of destination. With organizations, often I tell them, “You can look outside of the nonprofit sphere for people you can connect with and collaborate with if that is where you want to start.” One way that is really great is something that I’ve done in the past with nonprofits and with larger corporations. This is a model that comes from a guy named Brendan Brouchard. What he does is similar to my hotel story where if you’re some kind of a business or creator or someone that has a product or service that a nonprofit would be interested in, or if you’re the nonprofit and you’re interested in someone’s services- Let’s say Tony Robbins has some special seminar that you’d love all your people to attend, but Tony Robbins’ stuff is high-end, it’s expensive, so maybe you don’t have the money to pay for that out of donations, or maybe your donors wouldn’t like that. So what can you do? Add a third party. Let’s say the Red Cross. Or scale this up and down to the size of your organization and who you can access. Let’s use some well-known examples. If you’re the Red Cross and you say, “I want to send 10,000 people to a Tony Robbins event,” great. How do we pay for this? How do we get this done? Tony needs to make some money to put this on at the very least. We need to get people excited and invited. But let’s add in a third party. Let’s call up Coca-Cola who really cares about people being able to buy Coca-Cola around the world. They have millions and millions of advertising budget for instance. Bigger corporations like Coca-Cola literally have entire teams whose job it is to help put funds in the right place to nonprofits. If you don’t know that, go research it. It’s pretty interesting. What a nonprofit or company who wants to offer this service can do is go out to the nonprofit or vice versa and say, “Can we use your name?” If Tony Robbins said, “Can I use your name, Red Cross, to go to Coca-Cola and say, ‘I want to put on this cool event.’” I did this for a local charity in LA. We created an event where we got a bunch of local businesses around LA to bring a lot of their employees and to donate some money to an event. This event was teaching charisma, soft skills, those kinds of things to the particular people who were 18-25-year-olds. They are called the transition age youth. They have aged out of foster care. They are technically adults. After 18 and up until 25 is this age range. They are in a very vulnerable age when you come from a disadvantaged home, life. These people are looking for jobs. They are looking to get out there in the work force. They are good kids. They want to do things right. What we did is we said, “We are going to bring these kids. They are going to come for free.” These businesses around LA, we said, “Please either sponsor the event, and we will put in a small advertisement in a flyer, or pay for a ticket and have your people come. It’s still useful, great information for your employees, for your leaders to get in on.” Fast forward to the event. We had what amounted to a training event. At this training event, everyone got to learn greater skills on how to communicate better, how to collaborate better, how to connect with their fellow human beings. These kids got to learn a ton of stuff they wouldn’t have learned otherwise. These companies got access to young, fresh employees who are great people. They wouldn’t have known about each other otherwise. We put them together in a mentoring relationship during this weekend. The more seasoned employees got to sponsor and mentor a younger kid. Everyone really loved it. It’s now an event that runs every year and has continually grown. We took this spirit of collaboration. We said, “This nonprofit can ask for donors. That’s great. This company can try to advertise to these people. That’s great. I as a businessperson can try and get into these groups and maybe partner with them. That’s great. But all three of us together can do so much more.” Once this started going, they now understand this model, so they have taken it out. I know one of their executives left the organization and is now at another one, doing the same thing in another city. These ideas, these means start to spread out into the world. If you are looking to collaborate, look beyond just your local experience. Go out into the world and say, “Who has what I want?” Your problem I guarantee you is someone else’s solution. You’ll be able to find someone who wants to contribute to you in a meaningful way. Hugh: Russell, this last seven minutes has been a capsule of possibilities. I don’t know what you’re thinking, but I’m thinking we need to get on the phone with Joe Homes and see if there is a collaboration with SynerVision that we can pop out of a bubble and put some of these things to work. Joe: I’ll show you how. Hugh: Joe, I have to be the hard nose guy here. We have come up to the end of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour. It is fascinating. We could talk to you all day. Russell, thank you for inviting him here. I think we are going to try to get you to write for Nonprofit Performance Magazine. I think there’s a story brewin’. What do you think, Russell? Russell: Oh yes. He’s done a lot with that. We talked at some length a little while back when I bounced the idea to him about the podcast. We talked about a number of different projects and the power of collaboration. The time has come for that. It’s really time for all of us to point our thinking in that direction. The business networks I’m in do that. The organizations I’ve been working with do the same thing. Hugh: For those listening, go to info@synervisionleadership.org. Send us an email if you are interested in having a conversation. Our new website will be up soon. SynerVisionLeadership.org is up now just as a placeholder. But we have a lot more in our community for community builders. Before Russell closes us out, Joe, what would you like to leave our listeners with? Joe: Given that we are talking about community and leadership, a lot of leaders and organizations think they have to be really impressive to make an impression out there, to get donor dollars. I would say if you are going down the impression route, you’re going to run into most likely the fact that it’s going to be inauthentic in some way. People are going to lose the congruence that you have. Instead, look to express yourself in the world. Don’t worry about what other people think. Don’t worry about how you’re going to be judged. Just be you. Be that person in the senior living home that is like, “I don’t even care. I am just going to show you what I’ve got. This is me. Take it or leave it.” Think about all the most interesting people you know from celebrities like Oprah to even just the guy next door that you think is fascinating. Every one of them does not care what you think about them. They’re just out there expressing themselves. I would say if you are going to be a leader in your organization, go first. Express yourself. Be who you really are. I know that is the best worst advice ever. Just be yourself, right? The reason people say that is because you are enough. You are everything you need. Express that in the world, and look to be the most relaxed, easy person in any conversation you’re in. You will be more charismatic than you think. If I can leave you guys with that, that is what I would leave you with. Russell: Great stuff. It’s been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I am looking forward to talking with you some more because I have some tools we want to provide to these nonprofit leaders out here. Thank you out there, all of you, who got out of bed this morning with the thought of how you can do something to make other people’s lives better. What and why are you doing your job today? How is none of your business. Trust. Trust and move forward. Pick up the tools, and you’ll have it. This is Russell Dennis signing off. Joe Homes, thanking him again. My good-looking colleague, Hugh Ballou. There was a point in time where he was jealous of my naturally curly hair. Once he got over that, he decided he’d like to have me hang out with him and be here with all of you great folks every week. Keep doing what you’re doing. The world is becoming a better place every day, every day that you’re out here, swinging and going out here and doing a service and being you. This is Russ Dennis signing off. We will see you right here next week.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rock Against Trafficking: Saving Lives Through the Power of Music with Gary Miller Rock Against Trafficking is a non-profit 501c3 charity driven by seasoned music industry veterans who are taking action to end human trafficking on a global scale. With growing awareness and support from the media and public officials, we continue to see an increase in anti-trafficking task force initiatives worldwide — many businesses are providing training to their employees to help identify traffickers and victims in their tracks. With over 600 rescues so far this year, our network of affiliates is hard at work but we need your help! Gary Miller is a British Pop and Rock music producer, songwriter, composer, and guitarist. Gary worked for the London production house Stock Aitken Waterman as producer and songwriter and was later part of the Metrophonic team. He is best known for his work with David Bowie for the album Heathen, Katy Perry, Donna Summer, Lionel Richie, Kylie Minogue, Bananarama, and Simply Red. Miller started his music career during the 1980s as a guitarist, touring with Sir Elton John and Nik Kershaw all across Europe and the US. In 1989, Miller was Musical Director for Deon Estus on George Michael's Faith Tour. During his long-spanning career, he was also MD and guitarist for the 30-year reunion tour for British Pop duo Bros, twin brothers Matt and Luke Goss, in 2017. The Bros Live 2017 Tour filled The O2 arena in London two nights in a row. Miller additionally founded the Rock Against Trafficking foundation which records and releases album projects to raise money and awareness to fight human trafficking. The first Rock Against Trafficking album "Set Them Free", which was produced by Miller, features Police and Sting covers performed by various well-known artists, such as the rock band Journey, Heart, Carlos Santana, Slash, Julian Lennon, Ellis Hall, and En Vogue. Most recently Gary has achieved a #1 record across several UK charts with Rozalla’s “I Feel It Slipping Away”. More about Rock Against Trafficking at https://rockagainsttrafficking.org    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

COVID-19’s Silver Lining: The Chance to Reinvent the Workplace with Alise Cortez Dr. Alise Cortez is affectionately referred to as “The Anti-Undertaker” as she catalyzes the often otherwise “walking dead” to discover and grow their passion, inspiration, and purpose in life and at work. She is a Chief Purpose Officer, Management Consultant, Inspirational Speaker, Author, Radio Host, and Social Scientist based in Dallas, Texas. Having developed her expertise within the Human Capital / Organizational Excellence industry over the last 20 years, today she is focused on enabling organizations to lead from purpose and create cultures of meaning that inspire impassioned performance, meaningful engagement and fulfillment, while encouraging a devoted stay within the organization. For individuals, she also facilitates an online Catch Fire global community and various retreats to enable people hungry for a more meaningful and purposeful life to discover and create it for themselves. The forced reboot that has come with sheltering in place and working remotely has opened a space to reconsider everything that has been assumed about work and your staff’s relationship to it. Low levels of employee engagement has been an issue requiring leadership’s focus for decades. And yet the workplace, especially inside non profit organizations that are so often cause driven, holds such promise for fulfillment in the lives of employees. The pause in workplace “normal” ushers in the opportunity to take serious stock of operational practices that have likely evolved to a level of bureaucracy which dehumanizes the workplace, preventing employees to bring their very best. The workplace interruption that has accompanied the pandemic containment is a perfect opportunity to reevaluate traditional human capital and operational practices and redesign the workplace more optimally for increased engagement, fulfillment, and productivity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Making Your Organization Attractive for Cause Marketing Collaborations Sheryl Green is a writer, speaker, and animal rescuer. She is the author of four books including her most recent, Do Good to Do Better: The Small Business Guide to Growing your Business by Helping Nonprofits. Sheryl also serves as the Director of Communications and Cuddling for Hearts Alive Village Animal Rescue in Las Vegas. There's a way to position yourself so that businesses want to work with you and help you raise money.     Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Happy first of the year! It’s 2020 when we’re recording this. Russell is in Denver. I’m in central western Virginia, the commonwealth of Virginia. Sheryl is in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Sheryl, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little about what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. Sheryl Green: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited. The why I’m doing it I think is the most important to start with. In 2008, I went through a very difficult divorce and moved out to Las Vegas for a fresh start. Went through horrible divorce, horrible bankruptcy. Did not know anybody here besides my parents. Ended up in a pretty serious depression. At that point, my step-mom dragged me off the bathroom floor, where I was curled up hysterically crying, and she said, “Go do something for someone else.” And it was the best personal advice, and it turned out to be the best business advice that I’d ever gotten. I found my way to animal rescue. I started out doing small adoption events, and eventually I worked my way up to creating 5,000-person events. I put on a festival and started as the director of communications (and cuddling) for Hearts Alive Village Las Vegas. Even though this has been a volunteer role pretty much the entire time, and I’ve been on the board, but it started to dawn on me just how difficult the nonprofit world is. Anybody that has spent any time in there, you have spent half of your life with your hand out, begging for money and begging for help. It took a while to put that together. I started my own business with speaking and writing and things like that and realized that if a nonprofit could actually connect with a business, and even more importantly in my world, a small nonprofit could connect with a small business, we could make some real differences in our communities. That is what got me on this path. Hugh: Whoa. What a novel concept. I have worked with nonprofit leaders for 32 years. Russell has a whole history in various forms of working in nonprofits. It spans more years than that. I am in the saddle as the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra. Doing stuff inside of an organization is different. I developed my methodology working inside of organizations. I have been working outside for so many years. It’s good to go back inside and see both sides of this. I’m pleased that all the systems we created actually work. There is a funny relationship that organizations have with businesses. Businesses don’t understand basically why it’s good for business to be active and to support nonprofits. When you first have a conversation, do you start with a nonprofit or a business? Sheryl: It depends on the situation. I was going to say that I start with the nonprofit, but you know what? Now I am starting to work closely with small businesses, showing them, going beyond the obvious “Yes, you should help, and we should change the world together,” going beyond that and showing them the benefits to their business of helping, getting in front of a new audience, attracting those who believe in the same things as you and really branding yourself as someone who cares about more than just money. Hugh: Triple bottom line. Sheryl: Yes. Hugh: People, the planet, and the profit. Sheryl: I like that. Hugh: It is. There is books behind you. Are any of those books created by you? Sheryl: Those books are all by me. I’ve been writing. I started out with fiction back in 2009. I have a degree in forensic psychology. I never actually got to hunt down serial killers, which is what I wanted to do. Instead, I decided to write about them. Those books have not yet seen the light of day, but they will. I moved into writing nonfiction probably about four years ago now. And started out with a personal development book about my own experiences. Then moved onto how can I help businesses and nonprofits improve their organizations. Hugh: Wow. I’m sure we can find those on Amazon. I will put them on the interview. SherylGreenSpeaks.com is your main website. I believe it’s on the page we set up for this interview. A little more. How does the book connect you in the world? Does the book have a functional reason? Is it just you telling your story? Sheryl: That’s a longer story. My journey in speaking has been circuitous. I started out not knowing what I was an expert in because in the speaking world, you’re not a speaker, you’re an expert who speaks. I realized after my divorce and the hard knocks I’ve taken that I was really good at getting kicked and getting back up stronger and being that resilient, learning how to teach resilience. I started out on that path. It took a little while to realize that wasn’t necessarily where my heart was. I moved into realizing I’d been writing content for businesses and nonprofits for a couple of years at that point, and I realized that I’m a storyteller. It started out when I wrote fiction and moved onto when I was actually writing for businesses. I realized I could teach businesses and nonprofits how to communicate what they do and how to share that story so that they can really better serve their clients and donors. One of the stories I wish I could tell you exactly where I came across the term “cause marketing.” I don’t remember. I suspect there were angels in a bright light. When I realized that there was actually something in place for nonprofits and businesses to work together, that became one of the stories that I recommend we tell. You’ve got your why story, which most people talk about their origin. You have success stories, and that you’re actually doing what you say you do. The cause marketing story goes beyond that for me. I like to call it selling warm fuzzies instead of widgets because for the business, it becomes less about what they actually do and what they sell and more about who they are and what they stand for. It evolved from there. I started studying cause marketing and learned more about it. I realized it could make a huge impact in how nonprofits and businesses operate and in the cesspool of disaster that our country is in. I’m sorry. That wasn’t positive, was it? Hugh: It’s realistic. You didn’t blame anybody. Sheryl: No, no. It’s just a mess. We won’t go into that. Hugh: Fascinated by going back to ancient stuff. Going back to the Bible, in Ecclesiastes, he says, “There is nothing new under the sun.” Back when they wrote those books, they are dealing with the same kind of stuff we have right now. It seems like in all these years, we could have progressed civilization. Sheryl: Just a lot less social media back then, so it wasn’t as painful. Hugh: People had a way of getting things out. There are several points of connection that come to my mind. One of our guests gave us a different word, for-profit and for-purpose. Nonprofit is a dumb word because you have to make a profit, but it does identify the segment. The business can be a donor to the nonprofit, which is philanthropy. The business can be a sponsor, which is their marketing money. The business can provide in-kind support. It could be printing, volunteers. People in the company might want to be of service. If it’s a food bank or a free clinic, they could go down and serve on a regular occasion. We have donors, sponsors, in-kind contributions. Those are very different. And then there’s making space available. Sometimes companies have meeting rooms or event spaces and planning and implementing skills. There are those kinds of connections. Are there others? Do you want to talk about those and how they benefit both sides? Sheryl: While I use the term “cause marketing,” I want to give this brief statement that it’s not just cause marketing. That term has been pigeonholed for the buy one/get one, the pin-ups in stores, where it’s transaction-based. While that is wonderful and definitely one of the approaches that you can take, I think there is a lot more that we can do, from the small business standpoint, in terms of standing for a cause. So that it’s not just if you buy this, I will donate, which is great, and you should do it. But there is also spreading awareness, sharing your audience with that nonprofit. Creating awareness around the cause. A lot of people don’t even know what issues are out there. I don’t know how this is even the case, but I was at a fundraising workshop a few months ago, and she said that some people don’t donate because they’re not asked. Hugh: That’s right. Sheryl: They’re clearly not on my Facebook page because I am asking for donations all the time for the rescue. Creating that collaboration, and I will not say partnership, gives you the ability to bring your customers into that world, into that cause, and gives them an easy way to support it. The reason I say that is because there are so many different things. You touched on a bunch of them. The easiest way to look at that is time, talent, and treasure. You can donate some of your time or your employees if there is a specific job that needs to be done, and treasure, your money, your in-kind services. You mentioned real estate, giving space. The large organizations, the large businesses, they know this. They have got this down. A lot of my examples will be from the animal rescue. PetSmart donates space all the time for local rescue groups to come in. It’s no skin off their back because they have the space anyway. They are getting more people into the store. They have a higher footprint in there. If you get a dog or cat in PetSmart, chances are you will buy some supplies in there. You won’t turn around and go to Petco. Again, they get that benefit, the halo effect of we’re just not about making money, we want to find those pets homes. We know that our audience, our customers care about that cause. It’s something that the larger businesses have known for years. I think the larger nonprofits have known for years. But when it comes to the small businesses and the small nonprofits, who I think get left out of the conversation because they don’t have that staff. It’s just a bunch of dedicated people who are giving up their weekends and spare bedroom to work for a cause. Hugh: There’s another channel, which I did leave out, which is board members. People in the company can serve as board members. I’m thinking as you talk about cause marketing, it’s because marketing. It’s because it provides value to humankind. Because it’s good for business. Because, because, because. Sheryl: That was almost the title of the book. Hugh: Was it? I want to toss the interview to Russell, who has some thoughtful questions. This is very helpful, Sheryl. Thank you for sharing today. Russell, what are you thinking? Russell Dennis: I’m thinking I love her approach. When you get a good idea, write a book. That way people know about it. It creates accountability for yourself because you publicly went out and said things. Large organizations do have a little bit more bandwidth on the marketing front. You have businesses of all sizes. Some of the larger ones may have in-depth plans. Talk a little bit about ways that small nonprofits can get on the business’s radar screen. On the flip side, talk about some ways businesses can identify some of these smaller organizations that are doing work that is In line with their corporate social responsibility programs. Sheryl: I think first, from the nonprofit standpoint, even the small ones, you are building a business. The small ones that survive and eventually grow larger, they understand this. The ones that are just a bunch of gung-ho people who have huge hearts and really want to change the world, they’re wonderful and amazing, but they’re going to burn out. If you don’t look at it as a business and creating a sustainable organization, you will fall flat. One of the biggest things that I’ve seen—of course there is the whole debate on overhead—a nonprofit that turns around and waves a flag proudly, saying, “We don’t pay anybody. Everything goes into our programs 100%,” it’s fantastic for the first three to six months. After that, it’s not sustainable. Thinking about it as a business is that first step. The second one is building that brand. Realizing just like a business, you need to be raising awareness constantly. You need to be building your social media footprint and your email list and making yourself attractive so that somebody would want to come and say, “Yeah, I want to work with you. You have 10,000 followers. You have an email list of a couple thousand people I would love to get in front of.” From the nonprofit standpoint, it’s being able to communicate what you do very clearly. What is the benefit you bring to the marketplace? Even though it’s for purpose, you’re still in a marketplace. Communicating that and raising that awareness constantly. For lack of a better term, keeping your nose clean. Keeping that reputation up. News travels fast. It really does. There are great quotes out there, none of which are coming to mind right now. A reputation can be destroyed in one Facebook post, one conversation, one argument that you have, or one bad-mouthing of another organization. Making yourself attractive is about you have to look good before you can attract someone. That sounds so bad. Building up your group, your brand. Being easy to work with. I talked about this in my book. We had an e-cig company that reached out to us and wanted to do some fundraising for us. I asked her what she needed. How can we help? Logos, promotion. What can we do? She said, “No, you’re fine. We’ll tell you when we have the check.” They brought the comically large check, and we did the photos and everything. She thanked me for being easy to work with. And it blew my mind because they want to give you money. Why are you making it difficult? If it’s a good match, do what you can, and I understand. We’re understaffed. Some are not staffed at all. Find that person who is willing to be that point of contact. Sometimes they don’t want to do what the rescue or the organization does. I don’t go into the shelters. I don’t pull animals out. I can’t do it. It hurts my heart. But I can do this. Find those people. Find the people who want to be the go-between, the media, the connection. Did that help? Russell: When you’re talking about getting people involved, I love time, talent, and treasure, that’s what I talk about, it’s hard to confuse it. People who give you one will generally give you the others if you ask. It’s astounding how many people don’t ask. There is something about asking, which speaks to a concept of value, I think. Value is a word that gets a different angle placed upon it by a business. What you’re doing when you’re trying to create or grow something, you’re actually providing value. When it comes to looking at a nonprofit, and you talked a little about overhead, people don’t think of the value of those types of things when it comes to a nonprofit. Businesses are rewarded by higher-end marketing geniuses coming up with campaigns and investing in making their people better so they can provide better service. There is some sort of resistance when it comes to charity work to the idea of having a nonprofit invest in these things. How do you flip that conversation around in the minds of people who write a check? As far as having the infrastructure to actually deliver value. Sheryl: The first thing that I do, I’m a huge fan of Dan Pallotta. His TED Talks should be mandatory watching material for every human being. In my book, and I took a smart-ass approach to it because that’s how I am, I invited business owners, and I did about three pages on this. I said, “Hey, I have this great opportunity for you. I would love for you to come work seven days a week, ten hours a day, and I’m not going to pay you. I want you to bring all of your employees with you. We’re not going to have a roof over our head. It will be cold while we’re working. But it will be okay because you will have that inner feeling that you’re changing the world. Don’t worry when your bills come, when your mortgage arrives in the mail. You just write, ‘I’m changing the world’ on it, and they will zero out your balance.” I went for about three pages. One of my beta readers stopped in the middle and didn’t like it. She got to the end and was like, “Nope, you needed every single bit of this.” It was about changing the mindset from both the business’s point of view and the nonprofit point of view. My founder actually waited to file the paperwork for the nonprofit because she didn’t want to spend that money on paperwork and business when she could be saving a life with it. We all have that attitude going in. You have to realize that it’s not self-sustaining. You’re not going to get far ahead. As Dan Pallotta talks about putting a marketing flyer on the laundromat wall for a bake sale, and you bring in $200, and everyone is doing a Snoopy dance, but when you actually put money into this intelligently and properly and not just throwing money around like many businesses probably do, but you actually invest in improving and in growing and in spreading that awareness. I think it’s just a mindset shift that businesses need to make, but nonprofits need to make first so they can help them. Russell: It definitely is when you start talking about value. If you get someone who is working for a human services agency, they can talk a great deal about how they sit in front of people and how it’s important to move people from where they are to a better place, which is what an organization is set up for. When it comes to talking about value, that is something I think that nonprofit leaders need to have- That’s the other mind shift. They have to be able to talk about that and couch that in terms that are valuable to their supporters. It’s about finding out the right language to use. There is a process for each of them to get connected with one another. It’s a little different. Talk a little bit about the process the business goes to find a good project. Same thing for the nonprofit, and where you see the most common disconnects for each one of them when trying to get connected to the right people. Sheryl: I want to speak about value for a second. Then I will jump to that. There is that value that you need to communicate to the community, what we do for the community. There is also the value you inherently have as an organization to communicate to the business. We have these people following us. We have this space. When it comes to finding that partner, the best thing I have seen is once you’ve identified what you care about, there is a couple different ways that businesses can go about this. This is what I care about as the founder or CEO because I have this history with it. There is let me find out what my employees care about. There is also what makes sense for my business, my industry. If you are a restaurant, you might want to work with a food bank. If you’re a home builder, you might want to work with someone who provides housing for less fortunate people. There is always that match-up. That can go horribly wrong. Choose wisely. But then when it comes to choosing the actual nonprofit, this is why reputation is so important. There are people who will go out there and look at IRS records. You can spend half your life reviewing different nonprofits and seeing what their score is. Or you can just put it out to your people and say, “Hey, we are going to be supporting a nonprofit. Which ones do you like?” I think that’s honestly for me the best way to 1) spread the word early that you will be supporting a nonprofit, even before you start, so it gets the word out and gets people excited about it. 2) It gets people involved. They now have a say in what you’re going to do. You’re way more likely to go along with something if you have a say in it. 3) Learning that reputation. Who is actually good out there? Who is doing what they say? Who is messing around and not going to be around for very long? I think that’s the best way for a business to look. What was the other part of that question actually? Russell: How should that nonprofit look? What is the disconnect? What is the most common thing they overlook in their efforts to identify the best partners in the business world to work with? Sheryl: From the nonprofit standpoint, your reputation as we’ve said is important before. Your reputation is important after. Collaborating with a business that has some shady practices, maybe they’re in an industry you don’t want to be associated with. We get so excited. We need the money. We need the funding. You will give us some money! Thank goodness. We don’t care who it comes from. But when you do create that collaboration, when you do work with a business, you are taking on their garbage. Let’s put that nicely. Really realizing what are those values that you want to continue upholding as an organization? What businesses fit those values, fit the industry, make sense, because the halo effect, that business is going to get something from you. You want to make sure that what you get from them isn’t just money and then damages your reputation. Russell: One of the toughest sentences for a business or nonprofit to digest is “No.” That word is a full sentence. I don’t think a lot of people wrap their mind around that. There are times when that is the appropriate response. When you’re talking to either a business or a nonprofit, and that word comes up when you get that match, somebody says, “No,” how do you help people look at that? How do you help them have the proper perspective on that in these situations? Sometimes people shut down when they hear that word. Sheryl: You have to think about it like dating. Everybody that you go out with is not the right person for you. That’s okay. It doesn’t speak badly about you. Most of the time, it doesn’t speak badly about them. It’s just not a good fit. In the nonprofit world, we are so passionate about what we do, and we care so deeply about our cause that many of us will do it for free. However, not everybody cares about your cause. It’s hard to hear, but when I was just hitting the street asking for small donations from businesses, I started out my conversations after a while with, “Hey, are you an animal lover?” I’m not going to waste the next 10 minutes and my breath in the whole spiel of why we’re amazing and saving animals if you don’t care. Figuring out is that their cause, is that something that matters to them. If not, it’s going to be okay. You have to pick yourself up and move onto the next one. Same with the business aspect. Realizing that nonprofits are not just crawling around begging. They are building their own brand and reputation. Depending on what you do, it might be an industry they’re not wanting to connect with. Or it could be something you’re doing. It could even be what you’re offering. That’s one of the most difficult things that we run into from the nonprofit side is businesses approach us and say, “We want to give you this.” That is awesome, but we don’t need that. They want to bring 60 people down to have a wonderful volunteer event. That’s amazing, thank you. We literally with fire code can’t have 60 people in there. So it comes down to is it a good fit culture-wise, values-wise, but is it also a good fit? Do they want what you have? Do they need what you’re offering? If not, it’s nothing against you. It’s not just a good fit. It’s all in the mindset of can you accept that and move to the next organization? If not, you have to fix things on your end. Hugh: You’re singing the song that Russell sings. He has this point of clarity that we never really find out by listening what people are interested in and what their passion is, whether it’s board members or donors or corporate collaborations. I’m wondering, talk about the responsibilities on both sides. We get a sponsor. Great, boom. There is some responsibility because that is marketing money. We have to be careful when we make a pitch in nonprofits. The call to action has to go to a home page. There are some requirements there. A good example I refer to a lot is Viking Cruises on public television, Sunday nights with Masterpiece Theatre. They show a sizzle for more information. That is a clear demonstration of how sponsorship works for both sides. Sheryl: This was something I learned on the journey of writing the book. I had no idea. I was as guilty as organizations putting out, “Hey, go buy this because we will get something out of it.” It’s actually funny. I was reading Cause Marketing for Dummies. They mentioned an attorney in Las Vegas who specialized in cause marketing. One of my best friends is an attorney. After I got over the why would you need an attorney fantasy world, I reached out and actually was connected with him within a week. We sat down, and he told me all about this responsibility, which I don’t think small nonprofits understand. You cannot act as an advertiser for these businesses unless you want to kick off an UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Task). I’m not an attorney. I’m not a tax accountant. By all means, please find someone who knows more than I do. But it is realizing that you can’t be that advertising firm for a business no matter what they’re doing for you. I like how you put that, you can’t have the call to action. Hugh: When you do a call to action, it kicks in that dynamic. Russell knows more about it from the IRS. There are complete guidelines. You do present the brand, and they resonate. Viking Cruises is a great example. They are in the hour where when the people who can go on cruises are on TV. They show the boats and the great stuff, people having fun. There is some clear guidelines there. It shows that this business is supporting really high-quality entertainment on television and this nonprofit. To me, there is a win-win. Just as we’re talking, I thought of a fifth connection. There is what is called earned income, like an Amazon Smile account, or a grocery store that gives 5% to charities when you shop. Most companies have a residual, where they take money and make a donation to the charity. There is ways you can register. That is generated income. All of these have very strict rules around them. There are lots of reasons to have conversations in business. Why don’t charities have a conversation with business about any of these topics? Sheryl: Honestly, I think it comes down to the perceived value of the nonprofit and their own perceived value, not thinking they have anything to offer. I go through all the different ways to do an inventory on your business and your nonprofit to see what you have to give, all of the things you mentioned and more. When you realize that value, you’re more likely to approach, to say, “Hey, we would like to work with a business. We know we can offer them” the brand, the audience, and even just saying, this is where those rules kick in, just saying, “Hey, thank you for the support to XYZ business. Check out their website and see how they’re helping us.” Putting that out there. Great, you gave us money, and moving on with your day. When you talk about responsibility of the nonprofit, I believe that one of the biggest responsibilities the nonprofit has is to educate the business. When you see these pin-up campaigns, the point of sale at a register, you go in, and if it’s active, the cashier is actually saying something to you, it’s like, “Would you like to support childhood cancer?” They’re dead. They’ve said it 4,000 times that day. They have no idea what the organization does. Instead of saying, “Oh, cool, you want to raise money for us? Great, go ahead. There is information on our website,” if you could take the time to, if you have a facility, give a tour. If you do not have a facility, talk to the employees and explain what it is you do, why it’s so important to the community you serve, and what their donation does so that they can have the conversation with a customer if they ask. But they can be excited about it. It’s not just Day of the Walking Dead there with zombies spouting out that same line time and time again. There is passion behind it. “You know what? If you do this, we get to help kids with cancer!” How cool is that? They have that fire in them. Turning it into not a partnership, but the attorney made it very clear that he can’t call it a partnership, or he pops out from somewhere and yells at you. When you collaborate with someone, you make it that true collaboration. Here’s what we do. Here’s how you get involved. Here’s why you’re important. Hugh: It’s a win-win situation. Russell It is important. It is valuable to have that common language. The point of overwhelm for both sides is, Ok, we have to come up with this type of thing. We want to save X dollars on taxes. We want to raise X dollars. Then it’s throwing something against the wall to see what sticks. How important is it for them to be focused? What kind of steps can they take to identify organizations that are a better fit so that when they start prospecting, they are actually in a better position to get a Yes because they’ve done a little bit of homework? Sheryl: I think one is identifying exactly what you need. If it’s $6 million, you’re either going to go to a lot of small businesses or shoot for a larger organization. If it is maybe just some donations that you need or some help, you need an accountant to come in, really identifying what it is you need before you approach anyone else. That’s a huge part. Respecting their guidelines. I learned this unfortunately very early. Some of the larger casinos and corporations don’t see the value in animals. They do wonderful things in the community, but they are strictly focused on human services and things that affect humans directly, like food, home issues. When I walked in there all excited to explain how animals are the best thing ever and rescuing them is amazing and how that impacts humans—anyone who has had an animal understands that—but it’s not within their guidelines. So if it is a larger organization, realizing that they might just not be focused on you. Beyond that, if they do have guidelines, checking those out. Also finding out where they have donated in the past. What do they care about? Where do they put their money? What do they expect in return? Is this a true collaboration where they are expecting marketing help? I almost want to back out of that statement. What are they expecting out of this pairing? That’s important. One of the other things, and this is why I focused on small businesses and small nonprofits with the book, is if you are a small nonprofit and you reach out to the largest business, the huge corporations, you’re not even on their radar. Unfortunately, they want to work with the large nonprofit. We see that even at the local level where they are the biggest nonprofit in town. They are who the businesses want to work with. Go with the small guys. If you’re a small guy, it’s okay to work with a small guy. It means more to both of you. I did one interview where she just kept saying, “If you want to go to the big corporation, who do you contact?” I was like, “You don’t want to do this.” Start out with a small business. Start out at the grassroots community level. You will get more attention, more help, and more funding for your time invested. Russell: It is. What are some things that a small nonprofit needs to look out for? On the flip side, what are some things that a business needs to look out for when they are considering doing these types of collaborations? Sheryl: Once you have done all of your homework, once you have researched their reputation in the community—and I can’t say that enough just how important it is to know who you’re dealing with and whether they are an amazing organization, nonprofit and for-profit organization, do other people see them that way? Unfortunately, it comes down to you can be the best organization on the planet, but if someone decided you weren’t and smeared your name, do you want to add that danger to the situation? Once you’ve done your homework and watched out for all those earning signs, trust your gut. It sounds trite to really rely on your emotions here. I know everybody is so numbers-focused. When you are getting into a situation, either as an individual or as an organization that you are not supposed to be getting into, when you look back on it six months, a year, six years later, you can go, “That didn’t feel right. The hair on the back of my neck was standing up.” You go that icky gut feeling, that feels professional. Look for the icky gut feeling. Pay attention. I think, and I’ve gotten into some situations like this in my business. When I look back and think about that first meeting and those first conversations, “That wasn’t good from day one.” You ignored it because you were excited about money coming your way. Do your homework, and trust your gut. Hugh: We tend to forget, especially in the nonprofit side, the touchpoints that are so important, not only with sponsorships, but donors. You want to update them with messages telling them what is happening. Like you talked about earlier, we are going around with our hand out all about the money. Well, it’s not. It’s about the impact of the results of our work. Everybody shares in that. Putting together a win-win, but also having somebody in the organization who is dedicated to that messaging, any of those types of connections. You want to stay in touch. Sheryl: I think that it’s something that a lot of organizations struggle with. Having somebody handle that, but also remembering. Saying “Thank you” is easy. Being grateful is very easy. Looking at this is how many lives were saved, these many children got shoes, and these many homeless people were fed or served. Whatever that may be, whatever that impact is, it’s not just the appreciation that keeps donors and businesses coming back to help over and over again. It’s knowing that they’ve actually made an impact. That’s a great point. I don’t even know if I addressed that in the book. It’s going in the second edition, courtesy of you. Hugh: Also, you want to continue to focus on the value, and you want to keep that thread going. I was touched that you said that. It seems natural. We’re winding down this thoughtful interview. You mentioned Dan Pallotta. He has some good paradigm shifts. We tend to dumb down. His TED Talk is “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.” *Sponsor message from SynerVision’s online community for community builders* Sheryl, what is your final thought? Is there a particular challenge or tip or thought that you would like to leave people with? Russell will close out this helpful interview. Sheryl: Final thought. I think that working together, there is nothing that we can’t do. Without getting into any government stuff, there are a lot of problems out there that the government is not fixing. It’s up to the nonprofits and the for-profits to get together and find a way to make this world a better place. It might sound cheesy to put it that way, but we all have that responsibility. When we lean on each other and work together to make it better for everybody, that’s better for everybody. Oh, and spay and neuter your pets. Russell: I think Skittles will enjoy this interview. It is important. Thank you so much, Sheryl, for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. Do Good to Do Better: A Small Business Guide to Growing Your Business by Helping Nonprofits.This book will go on our list. 2020, we are going to have lists of books that nonprofit leaders should read that we will be highlighting. This book is one of them. There are other books. Another one is Asking Rights by Tom Ralser. These are books that can help get that conversation going so that we can collaborate to do more good in the community. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why Rotary International Has Provided Four Billion In Grants To Date: Interview with Rotary Club President Martin Mongiello Be sure to link up with Rotarians as we have 46,000 clubs on earth, 1.4 million members, handed out $160 million per year recently, are 100 out of 100 ranked on CharityNavigator, and have a four-star ranking. Martin Mongiello holds two Master's degrees because he views himself as a real "Learn it All." As a polymath, Marti has been to the North Pole, was a nuclear submariner for over 20 years, became a White House Chef and Manager of the Camp David Resort and Conference Center, rode white Arabian horses in the desert as well as camels and served in the jungle of the DMZ in Korea to the sands of Arabia in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. He makes over ten kids of creme brulee and does an awesome Bill Clinton accent. As the President of the Rotary Club of Global Impact, having lived in Europe and Asia for over five years helps global deals work and jump hurdles few may be experienced enough with. Marti has a Rolodex from the White House to Buckingham Place and beyond that just won't quit bringing integrity to the workplace, ethics, and fairness. As the Chairperson of the Board for the United States Presidential Service Center - he guides their global investment portfolio as part of a $1.6 billion dollar program with Kiva. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here are the #nonprofitchat questions for the interview: What is Extreme Leadership? Why is love important in business and leadership? What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received? Are leaders born or made? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danna Olivo is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals. A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally. Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle. What You will learn in this session: What do Sponsors/Donors Expect How to Build an Infrastructure to support the Donor Experience The 7 steps for creating a lasting Donor Experience   Here's the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Our guest today is Danna Olivo. First day with the new teeth. Danna and I have been colleagues for a while, and I have grown to appreciate her work more each time I hear her present. We are talking about sponsors and donors and how to really keep that relationship at the highest level because it’s good for them, it’s good for us. We just need to know how to do the talking and create a system around that. I am not going to waste any more time. I like for guests to introduce themselves, so tell us a wee bit, a couple of minutes, about your background and what prepared you for being able to do this powerful work on this topic. Before you finish, talk about why you chose this. What is your passion for this? Danna Olivo: Oh goodness. As Hugh said, my name is Danna Olivo. I like to call myself the Business Birthing Specialist. The reason that I go by that title is because I like working with early-stage and emerging entrepreneurs, whether they are nonprofit or for-profit. They are still in that birthing stage of their company. I am a business growth strategist at heart. That is backed up with more than 40 years in marketing, business development, and sales. That is where we get around to the experience that we are talking about: creating donor and sponsor experience. I work with for-profits and nonprofits to basically teach them how to build an infrastructure that attracts customers to their door and ultimately create an experience where they come out as advocates on the back end. That is where my background is. Hugh: You have taught at my live leadership empowerment symposium events. You and I are cooking up an event. We will do that again in Florida. We come to Florida on a regular basis. We are going to tag onto it a funding conference. Some of the stuff we are talking about will specifically be talking about fund sourcing and activation and maintenance for those running charities. It could be a church, synagogue, a membership organization, a cause-based charity. Any people doing, and really these are social entrepreneurs. That is still your sweet spot. Danna: Whether you are dealing with for-profit companies, nonprofit companies, churches, the thing to keep in mind is we are still dealing with a business. We are still dealing with entrepreneurs. We have to also keep in mind we are still dealing with customers. Whether they be sponsors or donors or customers or parishioners, they are customers. We have to keep that mindset when we are thinking about it. Hugh: You are so spot-on. We tend to think things are going to happen because we have a charitable cause. Not really. We are not really good at defining why it’s important and the impact of our work. We don’t really attract the money we deserve to attract because we are doing good work. We have a lot of different themes that we deal with in this episode. This podcast has been going on for three years. We have interviewed specialists like you who have brought some really good content. You are in good company as are they today. Danna, let’s set the stage a little bit. What is your passion for helping early-stage entrepreneurs get their head around this really important topic of donor/sponsorship? Danna: My passion stems from failures in the past. That is where a lot of my passion comes from. The mistakes learned and wanting to teach others how to avoid those mistakes. Working with small businesses, whether nonprofit or for-profit, but we are going to focus on nonprofit. When you start a business, a nonprofit business, it is cause-based generally. Cause-based businesses are emotional. You are tapping into the emotion. That is what you’re trying to do. Well, therefore, going after those customers, those sponsors and donors, you need to match that emotion to those sponsors and donors in order to get them to buy into your cause, right? Where my purpose is is teaching early-stage entrepreneurs there is a sequence to this. There is a sequence behind the research that has to go in to target those individuals that are more likely to emotionally buy into your cause, but also to understand what that messaging is that needs to be developed in order to reach those people. Not only on the sponsor/donor side, but what about on the other side? The people who are coming in that need your services, need your social platform. They need what you are providing through your platform. Hugh: In business, whether it is a nonprofit, you’re right. We need to install sound business practices in the charities or religious institutions we run. It is a business with more rules than a for-profit business. We are regulated with good reason. The people can give us money and write it off on their taxes for good reason, or sponsors can give us marketing money because we create value for everyone. There is a little different nuance for sponsors and donors. Let’s take the donor piece first. We ask people to donate and support a cause. This is what’s going to happen. Then they fall off by the wayside and they don’t donate again, or they don’t tell other people. What is the biggest problem you see, the gap that hasn’t been filled with people running an organization and managing these donor relations? Danna: Their structure. The structure that they put in place. It’s one thing to get those donors, to get those sponsors to the door. But if you cannot create that experience that I talk about, which involves the structure of the organization, then you are not going to be able to carry them through and create that experience that will turn them into advocates afterwards. Ultimately, that is what we want to do. We want to create our own sales team or our own promotional team on the back end because of the experiences that they had while working with our program. Hugh: Okay. I get that. That is theory. Turn it into practice. What does that structure look like? If somebody is listening to this and goes, “Wow, I need to maintain this relationship, but I don’t know where to start.” What does that structure look like? Danna: Oh goodness. You can start so many different places. First of all, you have to put yourself in the mindset of the sponsor or the donor. What are they looking for? What are their expectations? They are expecting to get out of this relationship that they are with you on. On the sponsor side, are there expectations to really create a brand out there in the marketplace by helping you in creating more of a brand recognition on the social side? On the donor side, are they really- Do they want to feel empowered by helping something they are really emotional about? What is it that they are expecting? Most of the time, what you are going to be looking at is they want to be appreciated. If they are not shown appreciation, or they want to see transparency, and especially on the nonprofit side because if they don’t feel as though their money is being utilized the way it should be utilized, and as promised, chances are you won’t get them back again. That’s what we want. We want these donors and sponsors to come back again and again, especially when we have to depend on federal dollars as well. Those federal dollars can be pulled at any time. Hugh: It’s really hard to get donors. We are competing with all these other charities out there. We want to have a process of maintaining that relationship. We don’t think about the donors until it’s time to donate again, and then we send a panicked letter saying, “We need your donation for next year,” but we haven’t talked to them all year. Danna: That is it. That is what I am talking about. They want to feel as though they are appreciated. They want and expect you to keep them in the loop. How are their dollars doing? What’s happening? Show them the results. Give them the statistics. Hugh: Say that again. Danna: You need to consistently be communicating with them. You need to show them what their dollars are doing as far as your cause. What are those statistics? How many of those lives are you affecting? How many people are you helping with the dollars they are giving you? Hugh: Why are those important? Danna: First of all, consider the fact that they are giving because they are passionate about their giving. They want to make sure that you are using their money to make a difference. That is one reason. They are passionate. This is their way of contributing. If you are not being transparent about it, they will go somewhere else that is doing the same thing in hopes they will be doing better. Hugh: I think it’s probably gratifying for a donor to see I gave this money, and you say, “This is what we were able to do with your money.” Danna: A perfect example is my husband and I like contributing to the Smile Organization, primarily because we had relatives in the past that have had cleft lips. There is an organization out there that helped those who have deformed lips, cleft lips, that create these smiles. These are children. It really means a lot to us when we see one of these children being able to smile again and feeling good about what has happened after one of these surgeries. These surgeries don’t cost a lot in these foreign countries. Hugh: That is such a great example. Several times in my life, I ran with the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society and pledged to raise a few thousand for leukemia and lymphoma research. At the race, I was connected to a particular patient with a wristband. It had their name, age, and condition on it. I was running for one person, but also for others, and I felt really purposed. Going back to the people who donated for me to run, they were betting on whether I would finish or not I’m sure, but they donated that few thousand and I did the running. We’ve been joined by the good-looking Russell Dennis in Denver, Colorado, and he just snuck in. He has experience in the funding seat for 11 years. Is that right, Russ? Russell Dennis: It is good to see you, Danna and Hugh. Danna: Haven’t seen you since the last time we were on together. Russell: That’s been far too long. With donors, one thing I find with people is that there is something magic about face-to-face contact. If you can have some non-ask events where you are not asking for money, just bringing them in to meet some of the people who are benefiting from your dollars, have them tour your facility, talk to other people, show them the exciting things their money is doing, and keeping them in the loop. Some people are going to want to be contacted more than others. It’s having a system to keep track of people and keep those connections. It is really something that if you can, you should have a single person try to keep the flow going. A director will do a lot of the face to face, but you want somebody to keep that communication loop open. Danna: That’s what I’m saying. You need to communicate with them. Involve them in the process, show them how their dollars are working, and help them be involved in it, as far as that’s concerned. First of all, the donors aren’t mind-readers. If you are not communicating with them, they are going to assume, and you don’t want them assuming. You want them to feel comfortable with where their dollars are being spent, and that they are making a difference. Am I right, Russell? Russell: Spot on. At least, you can survey. It is just asking how are we doing, what would you like to see more of. They won’t know what they want to see more of if they don’t know what you’re doing. Keeping them in the loop is important. Surveying them- Danna: Serving on one of the boards of a local nonprofit here, one of the biggest things that nonprofits do run into is the budget cuts with federal dollars. I was sitting in on the board of Hope and Help, which is HIV/AIDS awareness. One of the biggest struggles we had was the fact that the other agencies like ours were fighting for these federal dollars. We didn’t really have in place any kind of public in-flow, or what we did have was very little. All we had was one major annual event that we did. That event only happened once a year. The dollars that we have to spend on expenses happen every month. That is where these sponsored dollars and donor dollars come in. Why should we have to rely only on federal money, which constantly is being cut back, and we never know we are going to have it year to year because there are other agencies fighting for it? How do we build those relationships with donors that we can count on every year? That is where we are going with this. Through transparency and by creating that donor experience that we can count on every year because we are meeting each other’s needs on both sides, that is where we are going to be able to overcome that issue of the gap between the dollars we need and the dollars that are coming in. Hugh: That is the consistency. There is a rhythm to the communication. What is the mechanism you suggest people stay in touch? I think sending an email occasionally is not the answer, is it? Danna: First of all, because we are talking about relationships and creating an experience, it all boils down to service. That is what it’s all about. Servicing your donors. I use that as an acronym, and I built seven guidelines using the word “service.” The first is S, which is scalable. What I mean by the S in service is deliver an awesome donor experience that scales as your company grows. This involves knowing your donor. How do you make their giving decisions? How do they make their giving decisions, and understanding that? This is where this research comes in. Why would they donate? The E is for Essential. What that is, today there is no shortage of tools available for gathering predictive data on sponsors and donors. The problem is getting that data is not enough. You need to understand and know what is happening in the background. What is the chatter going on in the background that really speaks to what is really important? Most of your research is built around the dollars that are given. Most of your primary research is based on dollars given in this event. There is chatter that happens out in the ether. What we call is deep data mining. We need to understand that and monitor that and combine that. R is for Relatable. What relatable is is when you are in the fundraising mode, it’s important to listen and understand what motivates your donors. What is important to them? V is for Valuable. Intuitively, most people recognize the value of great customer service or donor service, but what are the causes? Causes that deliver value are ones that the sponsors will want to interact with. We want to create engagement. They will become more loyal as long as they can become engaged. This is where we get back to what we were talking about before as long as communicate with them, get them involved, invite them in, hold events that you’re not trying to gather their money but are bringing awareness. A perfect example is I have a 30-year-old niece who has Down syndrome. Because of this, I find myself being drawn to organizations that are committed to creating healthy independent living spaces/environments for individuals with Down syndrome. Some of those, what they do is provide a lifestyle where these individuals are creating and giving back to society. Those are the kinds of organizations I get involved with because they are close to my heart. It’s important for us to be able to relate to why the donor is giving. I is for Involvement. The donor experience involves a top-down approach. This is key. When the donor gives, they want to know that they are giving to the organization, and that it’s being recognized from the very top, not just from the people who are the representatives. They want to feel as though they are recognized from the top, from the directors of these organizations. Does that make sense? C is for Credible. This is a given. Trust is the backbone to credibility. It’s important that you do what you say you are going to do and when you say you are going to do it. Be consistent in your promises. Be transparent and communicative with sponsors. All of this is a given. We have known this all along. This is what comes with credibility. Finally, E is for what’s Expected. Deliver what they expect. We talked about that earlier. Did you make them feel valued? Did you treat them like they are important? Did you anticipate their needs for giving? Did you make them? Make it easy for them to engage. This is another thing. If you don’t make it easy for them to donate, they won’t jump through hoops. Did you show them that you cared? Did they feel loved? These are all important. These are the seven steps that I see that need to be built into the structure that will develop that donor relationship that will keep them coming back time and time again. Hugh: I remember that model. Give us the acronym again and the words. Danna: SERVICE. S is for Scalable. E is for Essential. R is for Relatable. V is for Valuable. I is for Involvement. C is for Credible. E is for Expected. Hugh: This sounds like she’s got a page out of your playbook, Russell. Russell: She has her own playbook, and it’s wonderful. That is one of the beauties of talking to brilliant people like Danna. I learn more all the time. You can never learn too much. It is creating that experience and value. That is seen to be a dirty word around charities. Nobody would use the word “value,” but you are in the value creation business. That is what it’s all about. Danna: Like I said, it doesn’t matter if you are nonprofit, for-profit, whatever. Ultimately we are not here to make money because that is not generally what a nonprofit is all about. A nonprofit is creating an environment that helps others, whatever it is, but it takes money to do that. Therefore, you have to find that money. Russell: We get stuck with so many bottom lines because you have funding agencies, foundations, individual donors who come in all shapes and sizes. You have regulators, media, clients. You have all these bottom lines, and everybody has a different thing that is most important to them. It’s juggling all of that is at the center of relationship building. It’s asking questions. It’s talking to people, keeping them informed, asking them what they want to see more of, what they like, what we should keep doing, what we should stop doing. It’s just constant contact, which is the name of the game. Danna: Most nonprofits get so wrapped up in the cause that they don’t worry about the business side of things. I wouldn’t say they don’t worry, but they don’t think they need the business side of things because they are so wrapped up in the cause that they think putting the cause out there is going to attract. That is not necessarily the case. You have to treat it just like a business. You have a message you have to put out there. You have research you have to do to find out who is most likely to contribute financially to the growth of this cause, of this nonprofit. Who are the organizations that we can count on as sponsorships to support us when we need it? All of those- There is a science behind it. There is a science behind growing nonprofits as well as for-profits. Hugh: Before we switch over to the sponsor track, Russ, he is the one that asks the real hard questions, Danna. Have you got a question or comment for her besides what you have already said? Russell: I was thinking about sponsors versus donors but we are getting ready to roll into that. The one thought I did have was with starting a nonprofit or socially responsible business, it’s our baby, and we love it. We birthed it, we throw it over our shoulder, we burp it, and we can really get lost because the important thing is what other people who are impacted by the organization value is not necessarily what I think is valuable. It’s what the people I want to try to serve think is valuable. There are so many different ones; that’s where it gets complicated. Danna: It is very complicated. I think Hugh will agree with me: You can’t rely on just one source. You have to integrate the levels. It’s almost like having different revenue streams. Even in the for-profit side, I tell my clients not to rely on just one revenue stream. You don't rely only on funding grants. You don’t rely only on certain things because what you will find is those grants will be yanked, and you won’t have it coming in anymore. You have people to pay, clients that are yours that you promised services, and now you can’t afford to deliver. You have to develop a diversified approach to bringing money into a nonprofit, from the donor side, from the sponsor side, even legacy. Look at legacies. Get people involved enough to where they are so passionate about it that they will leave you mentioned in their wills. Those kinds of things. Hugh: Absolutely. Russell: What makes it more challenging is it’s important to have those multiple streams, but only as many as you can manage well. It’s the phased and systematic growth with first things first that takes all of the planning and building of the right structure, the strategy so that you don’t get overwhelmed and you grow to all of these different sources. You need as many as you can, but only as you can manage well. Danna: You’re right. The other thing to keep in mind though when you are setting up your revenue streams, how you will bring your money in, you also need to be looking at what are your monthly expenses, what is it you need to have every month so that you can plan this? Even in a nonprofit, you have to have a cash flow analysis, a cash flow statement, because you can’t go on a wing and prayer. You still have expenses. You have services you have to deliver. It costs money. My son, I love him dearly, and he is extremely intelligent. All his life, he has wanted to live off the land. He does not want to rely on anything. Growing up, I always told him, “Sweetheart, I appreciate that. That’s great. How are you going to get the land? You need money. How are you going to get the seeds to grow your vegetables? You need money.” There is a science to it. You have to plan this stuff. Hugh: That is the anchor of this foundation underneath all of this. If you all are ready, let’s pivot over to the sponsor side of things. The donors are making a philanthropic gift. Their return on investment is a return on life that we give people in this sector, ROL. They want to see something happen. You’ve done a very good job of describing staying in touch with them, letting them know what the results are from their money. Sponsors are not making donations; they are spending marketing money because they want their brand associated with your brand. There are challenges with sponsorship. Talk about that channel a little bit and how to get top-of-mind with those sponsors and how to stay there. Danna: First of all, sponsorship dollars, when someone is sponsoring a nonprofit, they are doing it for a couple of reasons. First, the credibility, the connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring. Secondly, definitely for tax purposes. All of this other stuff. More importantly than anything, they are looking for a direct connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring and that brand that comes with it. The credibility, the recognition that comes with that sponsorship. To get those sponsors though comes that data we are talking about, the statistics. Most sponsors want to see that data of what your cause or what your platform has done. There has to be some kind of history there for them to feel good enough to be able to sponsor. Hugh: There is a negative brand reputation if your brand isn’t good enough. They want to verify it will give them a positive spin on their brand. Danna: As much as they can be connected to any messaging, marketing, whatever is going out, the better. If you have got a nonprofit and you’re developing videos and doing things like that, they want to be involved in that in one way or another as a sponsor. Hugh: There is a lot of similarities. Sponsorship is sponsorship. They want to see how many eyeballs, they want to create energy coming back to their business. In addition to what you have with the for-profit sponsorships, there is an affinity. Sponsors come on with something they have a passion for, or they want to see what happens or there is a philanthropic piece to the sponsorship. It’s still their marketing dollars, but they have an emotional piece. There is some rules around sponsorship, like we can’t do a direct call to action for a nonprofit. There is that IRS category of unrelated business income that then becomes taxable. There is a different protocol on the back end, but we are still representing the brand and the brand value and the brand promise and the brand identity to the sponsor. Continue. This is helpful. Danna: One of the other things that most nonprofits don’t realize is it’s most known for the for-profits sponsoring nonprofits. The nonprofits are looking for the for-profits to bring money in. What they are not taking into consideration is they can bring going out. For instance, with our funding conference that you’re a sponsor of, Hugh, SynerVision Leadership, in order for me and my company to be able to go out for community dollars, I needed a nonprofit arm. That is where that value can come in with a nonprofit, and there is another income stream that can come in by doing that, by partnering synergistically, strategically partnering. Hugh: We have some relations in how the money flows, but that is why you have good accountants to help you set up those systems. Money is a value exchange. We are not really good at describing the value. I see a lot of charities get sponsors, and they put up a banner, put their name in the program, and mention them. There is not a lot of value received for a sponsor, and there is no checking expectations, how this fits into your overall marketing plan. Give us more ideas as to how we can create that lasting relationship with sponsors. Danna: That is where we go right back to what we are talking about on the donor side. We need to understand what their expectations are. What do they expect out of this sponsorship? Are they looking to participate? Are they looking to just have their brand brought in? We have to look at what their expectations are. What are their needs? They may have specific needs they are looking at with their sponsorship. Are they looking to bring into an environment that may need their services, either legally or financially or whatever? They may be sponsoring because it will introduce them to a different market that they could bring in as clients. We have to look at, and we have to understand what their expectations are in order for them to keep coming back. Hugh: Russ, I bet you are liking that one. Russell: It’s true. What we are talking about here is a value for value exchange. With the nonprofit, money is very important, but it’s not everything. It’s the reason that the nonprofit is set up for. What is that value you can exchange? What is the sponsor looking for? Do you have a synergy where your values are concerned? Are you going to expose them to new customers? This is a metric we are talking about. How much media exposure are they going to get? We are talking about good will. We are talking about more bang for the buck. If they run out of sponsorship money, if they like what you’ve got, they will dip into some marketing dollars because you could actually get them a lot more bang for their buck. You have to understand as you approach a sponsor if you can do that. There is an art to it. You have to have a conversation with them. Is it possible that you can have a multi-year agreement? If you are going to go in and talk to them, you might as swell swing for the fence instead of having a one and done. Try to build that relationship and see what makes sense. Put some markers in there so that you can grow it. You want to keep these folks coming back. There is a difference. A lot of people mistake sponsorship for donations. They will go out and talk to businesses. We have this event, we’d like some auction items and these types of things. You have donations on one hand and sponsorship on the other. A donation is something they just give you. If they are looking for a value-for-value exchange in a pure sponsorship, they will look at who else has sponsored you. One question they will have in their minds is: Let’s take Apple and Google. You go to Apple and say, “I have this event.” It could be an event where you try to bring in people, and you want Apple to be a sponsor. One question they are going to have is if we don’t do this, will Amazon do it, or Microsoft, or Google? They may want some exclusivity. You never know. That would be a darn good problem to have. Danna: Yes, it would. Definitely it would. But you are right. Understanding what their expectations are, they get hit by nonprofits all the time. They have to weigh the value that is coming out of their sponsorship dollars if they are going to be giving away. How will that benefit me? Am I going to be fighting against competition? Am I going to be fighting against my morals, my culture? Does it match? Us as a nonprofit have to be looking at that before we even approach them because those are the questions they are going to ask. If we are not prepared to answer them ,chances are we will lose them. Russell: From what I have learned from other people who have been successful at getting sponsorships, some of what they do is approach people. They do their homework, a lot of research, and they try to approach the right people. They ask questions. People approach grant funders in this same manner. Building the relationships, looking at who might be a fit, and actually reviewing their website, reviewing whatever medium/material you have available, and calling a program officer, calling the appropriate person at the headquarters to ask them for a short informational interview. Do your homework so that you are not asking them stuff that is readily available. That will put a dent in your credibility off the bat. You ask questions to find out what is not between the lines. What is not written to get a feel for what sort of stuff they look for, what they are proud of, what did you do that worked, and ask what events they sponsored before. If it looks like you can deliver something that might be important to them, ask them if you can send them a proposal. You’re not sending something blind. Doing that with private foundations saves you a lot of time, especially if you don’t have a lot of resources or grant writers to go do it. Having those conversations, they remember you. You might have to make some adjustments in your language. You don’t want to shift who you are and what you’re about and what you’re doing, but you may need to adjust the language to put it in the proposal to persuade them to fund you. Danna: One thing I have run into in the past if you are starting a new nonprofit or are in the early stages, oftentimes you will find that some nonprofits will try to beef things up in their proposals over and above what they are. It needs to be understood that you are going to be vetted. It’s important that you are credible and transparent in everything that you do. Otherwise, you’re going to lose those sponsorships, those donors, anything that you are going after. This is what a lot of nonprofits run into sometimes; they are not able to back up, whether with social proof or data, they are not able to back up what they are all about. I have started a nonprofit, and that’s it. This is where you run into issues sometimes when you are trying to raise money for a nonprofit. It’s tough. Just like with a for-profit business. In the beginning, you are doing it out of pocket. You are self-funding quite a bit. Hugh: You want to stop that though. What you are hitting around is that we need to be professionals at running the organization. Danna: Like a business. Hugh: A lot of cause-based charities, people have expertise or passion about the cause and zero ability to run a business. I encourage those people to get an admin or an executive director. What I have started suggesting that organizations do is create a position called a funds strategist. They look at your road map, your strategic plan, your solution map that says where you are going to be and how you are going to get there. Then we have targeted budget items for those one or two years out. Danna: This is where a cash flow statement comes in. A cash flow statement, when you think about it, is you are breaking down your revenue streams two years, three years. What you are doing is breaking it down on a monthly basis so that you know what your goals are to meet your expenses. Hugh: We don’t do that. What we do sometimes is a cash flow analysis, which is the rearview mirror. What we need is the cash flow forecast, the headlights. We don’t think about that a lot. We get this lump of money. We raised some money at an event. What you are talking about is we talk about when it’s going to run out. When we are making presentations, we want to talk about use of funds, what the impact is going to be. We measure that. If you’re good at it, and Russell talked about the value exchange, we are going to attract more money if we are really good at attracting the first money. There is a skill in learning how to make the presentations and attract the money. We don’t give equal time to that. It’s like we build a car. We build this great thing, and we fill the seats with our team members, but we don’t learn to drive the car and we haven’t put the gas in it, which is the money. Danna: The other thing to keep in mind, especially on the cash flow side, is the reason we deal with it is a lot of nonprofits depend on donors. They get donor promises. Those promises don’t come in right away. It’s important to understand on a cash flow statement those donor promises are not going to pay the bills until those checks come in. That is where I talk about let’s make it easy for them to donate as opposed to making a promise, and then we have to keep chasing them for the dollars. Let’s make the process easier until we get those donation dollars or sponsorship dollars in. Hugh: When they do a pledge week at NPR, they say, “Give us your card, and you can do a recurring donation.” You will give every month. They go for the monthly recurring smaller donations rather than bigger lump sums. Danna: I think that’s probably better in a way. You know what’s coming in every single month. Hugh: It doesn’t mean we ignore them. We may need to create the program you’re talking about of staying in touch. A funds strategist will create funding programs to support the strategic plan, your targets and budgets for each state of your development, and then your cash flow statement projects how long the money that you raise is going to last. You will run dry if you don’t have that recurring revenue. Sponsors are unique. We will do a whole show on sponsors here soon. It’s a very unique pathway. You talked about multiple streams of revenue. There are eight, not counting real estate. Donors and sponsors are right at the top. Those are dependable, regular. Typically, grants are for special purposes. If you do a good job with a sponsor, you have asked what they want, and you create results for them, then there is no reason for them to stop. This service piece that you are talking about is actually essential for regular recurring revenue, isn’t it? Danna: When you think about the number of nonprofits fighting for the same sponsors, it’s not as if they don’t have enough organizations wanting their sponsorship dollars. How are you going to keep yourself at top of mind as far as these sponsors are concerned? This is where meeting their expectations and understanding that is how you are going to keep them with you. They are going to turn around and convince others to come in as sponsors. That is what the sponsorship service, the relationship you are developing, that is what the end goal is: keep them in the pipeline and have them turn into your own advocates on the back end to create more sponsors for you. Hugh: That is so well-put. Do you have any questions or comments for Danna, Russell? Russell: One of the things that I would ask or that people talk about in the question I get—I don’t always have a good answer for it. Very new nonprofits, what is the best way for them to approach obtaining sponsorship? On what scale should they aim for? Hugh: Told you he had the hard questions. Danna: I have dealt with a few very early nonprofits as far as that is concerned. Oh goodness. What is the best approach? Relationships by far. You have to have those relationships. You can’t just go in and say, “Look, I have started a nonprofit. This is it. Are you willing to donate or sponsor me?” Those relationships are critical. The other thing is really look at what your needs are from the sponsors. Match up those sponsors first before you approach them. Start to develop those relationships. If you need media, printing, marketing, all of that, look at what your needs are because if you are very early-on and you try going to an Amazon, chances are you won’t get it. Go with your local companies. Go with the people that network with you. Go out there and network. Do some events, some free events, like walk-a-thons or something to that effect where you can get people involved and bring donations in that way. Through that, then the sponsors are going to be more apt to donate some dollars because they are branding themselves. Hugh: Wow. That is a lot of good stuff, Danna. You have hit on some really important topics today. Really rich content. What do you want to leave people with? A tip, a thought, a challenge? What do you want to leave people with? Danna: The biggest challenge I want to leave people with is one of the biggest challenges I fight all the time with my clients: think before you jump. Think before you jump. Think about the process. Think about the sequence. Think about the strategy behind what you are doing before you jump. When you are dealing with limited dollars, you don’t have dollars to waste. You want to make sure that those dollars go as far and as efficiently as you can make them go. The only way you will do that is to think about what you are spending those dollars on. Hugh: Very sage advice. Russell, thanks for joining us. Danna, thank you for the wonderful, useful content today. Danna: You’re welcome. Thank you. Nice talking to you again, Russell. Russell: Always a pleasure. Keep on keepin’ on. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Secrets for Safe Money and a Fabulous Future, Create Income You Will Never Outlive with Kris Miller Kris Miller's message for nonprofit leaders and clergy regarding estate planning is to remember the importance of planning for the future. Estate planning is not only about ensuring that your assets are distributed according to your wishes, but also about making sure that your mission and values continue to be carried out after you are gone. It is important to work with an estate planning attorney to ensure that your assets are protected, your beneficiaries are taken care of, and your nonprofit or religious organization is provided for in the future. Consider including charitable giving in your estate plan as a way to ensure that your legacy lives on and continues to make a difference in the world. Kris Miller is a Legacy Wealth Strategist. Her clients learn how to change their families’ financial realities and create incomes they will never outlive. Not one person has lost a single dime on her watch. She's an engaging speaker and has spoken extensively on personal finance, retirement & estate planning, living trusts and asset protection at live events and for radio, TV and digital media. Kris is a highly sought-after speaker & trainer for organizations and businesses including Citibank, Keller Williams Realty, the American Payroll Association and the U.S. Government Financial Officers Association. She’s helped over 6,000 families avoid financial disaster by strategically planning for their futures. Kris is the author of the #1 bestseller “Ready for PREtirement: 3 Secrets for Safe Money and a F Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Breaking Down Barriers and Bias for Women in Leadership In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we had the privilege of hosting Linda Fisk, a thought leader in women's leadership and the founder of LeadHership Global. Linda shared her journey of creating a community of extraordinary women in leadership, focused on unleashing their full potential and creating personal and professional breakthroughs. The discussion delved into the concept of the glass ceiling, which represents the barriers preventing women and minorities from reaching top leadership positions. Linda highlighted the staggering statistics showing the underrepresentation of women in the C-suite and the persistent gender inequality in the workplace. Moreover, the conversation expanded to address biases and stereotypes that hinder women's progress in leadership roles. Linda emphasized the importance of awareness of implicit biases and the need for regular bias and stereotype training in organizations. Furthermore, the episode explored proactive strategies to break down barriers and bias for women in leadership. Linda suggested setting diversity hiring goals, establishing anti-discrimination policies, and conducting blind screenings in recruitment processes. She also emphasized the significance of networking, mentorship, and seeking alternative funding sources for women entrepreneurs. The episode concluded with a call to action for individuals to stand up against inequities in the workplace, speak out about unfair practices, and seek support from HR and organizational leaders to ensure equal opportunities for all. Overall, the episode provided valuable insights and actionable steps to address gender inequality and empower women in leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of creating inclusive and diverse work environments for the advancement of all individuals Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. We’re back. This is a bonus session of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are recording a series of interviews about partnerships and collaborations. Recording some thought leaders in the place where SynerVision is located in Lynchburg, Virginia. It’s central western Virginia, about halfway up in the commonwealth on the side almost in West Virginia. Bill Varner: Almost. Hugh: Almost. And my guest today is a new friend. I have only been here a year, and we met shortly after. People kept saying, “You need to meet Bill Varner.” Give us a little background, Bill, on who you are. You came from corporate America to run a nonprofit. Bill: I did. The last 30 years, I have spent in health services and hospital administration. The last 17 of those were with Centra as their vice president for strategic planning, marketing, business development, communications, and PR. All of that has been in new business development, evaluating communities and determining what their needs are and putting plans and processes in place to meet those needs. One thing that’s interesting about the health system environment is while there is often one single plan for the organization, there are numerous subcomponents to the organization, too. You might have a focus on cardiovascular services, a focus on women’s and children’s services. There can be strategic plans at each of those levels as well, but they all have to work together toward one single ambition. I have the responsibility for that. I did that for the last 17 years at Centra, headquartered in Lynchburg, and covered all the geographies that organization covers. About a year and a half ago, the opportunity presented itself to run United Way. They were looking for a different skill mix for their incoming executive director, no longer just someone who was comfortable with raising funds, but someone who could say this is an organization that needs to adapt to the future and the current state. What type of skills and experience do we want in the role? Bottom line, they were looking for somebody with more of a strategic planning/vision-setting, tracking incomes type of person. That not only fit very well in my wheelhouse, but I was also very interested in doing something that actually put me a little bit closer to the people that benefited from the work we do. Centra is a great organization, but I am obviously not a physician or nurse or clinician. More and more in my life, I found that I really wanted to be closer to those who were having an impact in the community and to see who we serve. United Way is an ideal fit for me. Hugh: In my world of empowering organizations and leaders, the centrality of it is starting with your vision, mission, and strategy. Being a musical conductor, we have to have the chart in front of us so we know what we have to do. It’s a really important foundation for any organization. Coming from corporate America into this philanthropic work for a for-purpose organization—we like to call them that because nonprofit is such a crazy word. When you and I first met, give me an idea. Let’s talk about how many other organizations you support. Bill: We support 26 agencies, 38 programs in those agencies. We actually fund those programs. Several of our agencies have more than one program. 26 organizations, 38 programs. Hugh: What makes your work different than Community Foundation? Bill: Community Foundation and we overlap in some respects. Much of what the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation does focuses on social needs and community needs. They have a broader focus in that they may have benefactors that have funded foundations within their structure who have a very dedicated focus outside social services. We are strictly focused on social services. But we recognize that because we have a shared purpose in the community, we talk. That’s a monthly get-together we have. We have included the Centra Foundation. There may be others we want to include in that. We are all to some degree doing the same thing. Let’s at least make sure we’re coordinated. If we are asking agencies and other nonprofits to collaborate and coordinate, we need to hold ourselves to the same standard. So let’s get together and talk. Not sure exactly what is going to come from it. We don’t have a hard deadline as to when we will have certain deliverables, but we are starting to see that there will be opportunities for us to communicate and make sure we are all rowing in the same direction around certain needs in the community. I may be getting off your question a little bit, but that’s why we recognized early on we needed a single direction. I started to talk about this idea of why don’t we do a single community needs assessment? In the past, each nonprofit we support in various times in their planning cycle would do a needs assessment. They each didn’t necessarily coordinate with one another. I thought if we could do one needs assessment for the community, not only would we save the time and effort of having everybody do it separately, but we could all participate in that one process, get input into it, and see the same results. We would then ideally be all rowing in the same direction. Here are the three or four biggest issues in the community. Let’s make sure we exert most of our time, resources, and effort on those areas. We have the data and feedback to support those are priority areas. We are doing much more than if somebody comes and asks for a grant, we fund them. We’re really looking strategically at if this is addressing a community need. Bill at the Community Foundation and I are trying to stay very coordinated in that effort. Hugh: At the heart of collaborations and partnerships, there is defining the need and defining the vision and your philosophy of how you will proceed. How has the work of part of the conversation has been with the city, with the arts center, and with a group called Unity in the Community who are purposefully pulling people together and having projects they can work on together. The theatre is opening up, and there is a whole program centered around the arts. Unity in the Community is centered around religious and service programs. You sit around that table. Thinking about partnerships and/or collaborations, they are slightly different, you can collaborate without being in a partnership, how has your work specifically and your work through United Way created a catalyst or been a facilitator of those things? Bill: Let me answer that by going one step back. I think it’s important to understand a place like Lynchburg in central Virginia. One thing I have noticed here, and I have been here 17 years, and I have been in positions myself where we needed help for health issues or other things. This is a community that steps up. This community does not sit around. You just gave an example of your request for people to participate in a choir, and 100 people are there. You don’t know if they’re all singers, but there is a lot of interest. This is a community when it sees a need, it does not hesitate to rally a group together and try to address that need. Now there is good and bad with that. The good is that you have people who are there who are ready to go, symbolically speaking, they are not thinking all the same. What you also get is multiple efforts that may be duplicated with an existing effort or somehow are running counter to an existing effort. But at the very least, you have multiple organizations who have not yet communicated with one another, who may not even know the other exists. Now you have two different organizational structures. You may have two actual nonprofits who are registered, who have to create a board and have an executive director. They each go into their own direction and suddenly you have fragmentation. I will say a lot of what makes this a unique and wonderful community to live, that good heart that is willing to step up and engage, the unintended consequence of that is there is often too many people who have not yet coordinated. We are replete with organizations who are fragmented and could benefit from coordinating. We have identified that as an issue in our strategic plan. We feel like we have a role in being a catalyst to bring those organizations together. One, because we work with multiple organizations, we may be the first place to see that you are doing the same thing as this organization is doing. Why don’t we get you together and talk? Our funding could go a lot further if we could support a consolidated and coordinated effort than it would if we were trying to support two separate organizations. By those way, those two organizations, and in some cases it is six, seven, eight organizations who overlap, are each out in the community asking for funding. My experience with donors is by the third time a person comes and asks for money for the same need, they suddenly realize this isn’t coordinated. I won’t give my money to this. I think there is a benefit that can come to those who do coordinate in that the ability to “sell themselves” to a donor and to sell their potential impact to a donor is greatly heightened. We are in a unique spot to see maybe for the first time where there are points of fragmentation. It’s not always just a duplication or a fragmentation. There are some cases where the work of one organization could feed the work of another organization. Two places should be working together because they are taking care of people at different points in their life. Make sure they are doing a hand-off from one organization to the next. We feel like because we are in that unique spot that sees a lot of this, and we are in the position to be able to fund, and we track outcomes, that is an important role for us. Not just as a fundraiser to give money to those organizations, but to help those organizations operate more efficiently between one another. We are also doing some things to help them operate more efficiently within each organization. Hugh: That’s promising. Bill: We are in the very early stages of that. I don’t want to oversell accomplishments on that. We are starting to recognize where those overlaps are and are trying to bring groups together and see some of the challenges in that. It’s tough for groups, at the end of the day, if you are going to coordinate and collaborate, what you are also going to do is compromise. It means that if I am going to coordinate with another organization, I have to go in with the spirit of compromise, and I have to go in it saying there is a purpose we are coming together for that supersedes my personal self-interest in this. It may in fact require me to give something away for the greater good of the community. I think as long as we are willing to do that and take self-interest and self-preservation out of the equation, I think we will do good things. As long as self-interest, self-preservation, egos, turfism stay in the discussion, it will be hard to move the needle. But I think the purpose of focusing on the community is a much more noble cause than the purpose of focusing on organization and organizational growth. We just need to be all prepared and recognize we will have to compromise. Hugh: I remember reading a story about one of the larger foundations in southern California in the LA area telling their organizations they funded. They pulled them all together and said, “We are not going to fund you anymore unless you work on collaborative efforts. We’re leaving the room. You come back to us with a collaboration, and then we will revisit the conversation.” There was a funder stepping up and setting a boundary. We are not duplicating funding anymore. Part of what came to my mind as you were describing that situation was that we create an unintended consequence of leadership: a competitive situation. We have a need, so we will service that need. There is too much of when we didn’t adequately do our research about what was available. In business, we look at our competition. What is our unique value proposition? Is it being served? A lot of people come to me when they want to start a nonprofit. I say why don’t you work under another one as a project? Do it for a year, and see if there is really a need for this. Then you don’t have to go through all that paperwork. Bill: That’s music to my ears. That’s exactly what we are asking organizations to do. Before you start a nonprofit, pump the brakes. Let’s take a look and see if there is somebody else out there not necessarily doing the same thing, but addressing the same need. If there is, talk to them first. It’s much more exciting to get your own organization started and create your own logo and website. That stuff is sexy and exciting, and people get caught up in that. You need to let that go. If my real purpose is to serve the community, not just create an organization, let me find out if there is a moving train I can hop onto now, somebody else who is already doing this. In fact, we had an example of that this last year. An organization came to us and wanted to start a new nonprofit. We think you are more appropriately aligned with an existing organization. Long story short, they are now a program under that organization. At least for now, that makes the most sense for them. Now they don’t have to go find a separate board. They have not created costly infrastructure. They will share the overheads of the other organization. If anything, that helps spread that organization’s overhead out, so that’s a win-win. We’ll say we have stopped short. We do recognize that as a funder, we have some leverage to say we will withhold some funding until you collaborate. We have stopped short of saying we will not fund you. In our view, that is punishing the wrong person. We’re not punishing the organization; we are punishing the people who benefit from that organization. I’m not going to tell for example if there are two backpack programs in the community that provide food to kids on Friday and they are not collaborating, I am not going to say I am cutting your funding until you collaborate because I am not hurting those organizations, I am taking food out of the mouths of the kids on Friday. While it feels like an important knob to turn, to me, it’s being a little reckless with money as a motivator. It’s not targeted enough to actually motivate the right people. It just hurts the community. But we have said our funding is going to put strong preference on those organizations that collaborate. Hugh: That’s true of a lot of private foundations that do fund nonprofit projects. They look favorably at collaborations and partnerships. Going into ways- I want to talk about two things. Going into these joint venture things, what are the deficits? People don’t think about writing agreements for certain things. I want to talk about that. And then what are the resources that you and your organization bring to foster those conversations? Bill: It’s interesting. I will talk a little bit out of both sides of my mouth. One, I will say I think those organizations who come together to collaborate should not set too high of an expectation early on. I think it’s okay to say, “Let’s get in a room and talk and see where things go.” If we put a lofty expectation in there meeting one, we may scare each other off, and we may not really know what we’re trying to do yet. Don’t set super high expectations right out of the gate. Don’t be too rigid with saying we have to have an outcome by December. However, at some point, you have to switch the conversation from the stream of consciousness rambling, which some of these can be, which can be ultimately beneficial. At some point, you have to get people on a map. We have talked now for a few meetings; what are some of the things we think we share? Hugh: It’s kind of like dating, isn’t it? I didn’t ask my wife to marry me on the first date. Did some relationship- Bill: That might have been a little presumptuous. Hugh: A little. Bill: It’s very much like that. Once you know a little bit more about each other, you can say is there something more here? Is there a common purpose that we share? Is there a common goal that we should work on? If so, let’s articulate that as clearly as possible. Maybe that’s just one goal. If so, we make part of our work to focus on that goal, and let’s keep having this open conversation about other areas you might benefit from or other people you want to bring to the table. But I think ultimately, if work is to get done and accomplishments are to be made and we are going to have positive, sustainable impact on the community, you have to get a plan together. You have to have the basic rudiments that a lot of people think are NBA 101, so people don’t do them. They think they have to hold this in their head. You have to have a vision statement that is meaningful, clear, concise, and not have vague language, not be marketing fluff. You need to have a meaningful vision statement. Then you have to talk about the strategy that will get you there. That strategy has to be goals, objectives, tactics, 90-day plans, 30-day plans, who is accountable for it, when is it going to be done, and how do we measure whether or not it was done. If you have that line of sight between that vision and what you need to have done Monday morning, that is a recipe for doing good things. I do think those early collaborative efforts need to be loose on the front end, but gradually get more focused as topics bubble out of those areas. I am in several of those meetings right now. A couple of them, we are in those early stages where we are just talking. We leave the room. The type A in you leaves the room says, “We did a lot of talking, but I don’t know what we accomplished.” The more patient side of you should say, “We have done a lot of talking, but we have not talked before. That’s good. That’s progress. No real hard outcome just yet, but we will get there. Maybe the next meeting or the meeting after that, we will plant a stake in the ground and say that we all want to do this. We all focus on food, clothing, and shelter. Let’s pin that up on the wall and say what can we do differently together to do this?” That can be scary to organizations because that does ultimately mean you are going to somebody in the room, probably everybody in the room will have to compromise a bit. You just need to know that going in. If you are going in saying, “I am not doing anything that is going to take something away from me or that causes me to lose influence or control over a certain area of my life,” if you go in there with that attitude, you might as well not be in the room. You have to go in saying, “This is not about me. This is about the community.” If there are points along the road here where I may be doing something that affects something we are measuring at United Way, maybe I need to let it go. If it’s better for the community, if what I lose is more than made up for by what the community gains, I should let it go. I will give you a good example. We run a backpack program right now. We fund several backpack programs, but we run a couple different schools out of the United Way. We get revenue for that. That revenue is included in our total pledges that we report at the end of the year. Ultimately, all those backpack programs need to coordinate and consolidate a little bit better. That probably will mean our backpack program could move to a more centralized program somewhere that might be able to do it more efficiently and effectively than us. If I move that backpack program out, that is probably the right thing to do to get it in a more efficient program. But I have also taken X thousands of dollars worth of revenue that had been associated with that program outside of my organization. Somebody looking at our dollars might say you just went from $100 to $75. You’re losing ground. Not really. I know where that program went. I know it’s doing better where it is now. It made more sense for it to be operated there. If I am collecting $25 less than I used to collect, that’s okay. That’s not a failure. In fact, that’s evidence we collaborated on something. If my only interest is in growing our revenue, I would never do that. That’s why you have to let that interest go. There is room for all of us. At some point, organizations may need to consolidate and think about shared purposes. Right now, we are in the earlier coordination and cooperation stage. Hugh: One of the things I am clearly hearing is that you’re a catalyst for people to think differently. Bill: We are trying to be, and trying to facilitate conversations like that. and help them see that we are doing this, too. We are not some expert coming in and saying that we want you to do this and it’s going to be hard on you and easy for us. We are holding ourselves to that same standard. We can be the voice of experience and say, “Here is what we had to learn about ourselves and our behavior in order to do this effectively.” We want to share our experience with you and see if you could see there is a different way to think about things that might be more advantageous for the community. Hugh: You’re the champion of fostering new thinking, but you’re also bringing some skills, history, tools, and leadership to this. You re bringing business expertise into tax-exempt business models, which a lot of nonprofits don’t think of themselves that way. We have to generate revenue. Otherwise, we will go under. The unintended consequences are people want to go too fast, so you are encouraging people to take a deep breath. Bill: Before starting a new organization out of the ground. Hugh: Or even two organizations- we spoke of one before we went live, which we won’t talk about here. We have two coming together who have had some history who had not talked about the philosophies and processes and values moving forward. They got to get to work. There is a self-imposed urgency sometimes. Are we in the long haul compromising our work by going too fast? Bill: Absolutely. Hugh: There is something we could do now. Part of what United Way brings to the table in the community, you are not only working in Lynchburg, Virginia, but you are working in central Virginia. Bill: Amherst, Bedford, Campbell, and Lynchburg. Hugh: That’s pretty much the footprint of the greater area. Bill: That is, yep. Hugh: With the impact having more than just funding the programs. You’re a funding agency; however, you’re fostering this creative thinking about how to work together and how to go to the top a step at a time. Bill: We’re doing that not only around collaborative efforts, but we are also trying to establish a program that we are casually referring to now as beyond funding. Many people know us as a organization that does work to improve the community through fundraising that supports nonprofits. In the course of visiting all these nonprofits over the past year and getting familiar with how they operate, it’s become clear to me, and I’m sure you feel the same way, that they don’t have the marketing department and a finance department and a social media department and an HR department. In many cases, they have an executive director who might be a volunteer, certainly I daresay most are overworked and underpaid. They are in it because their heart is in it and they want to do the right thing. Our money we give them each year is important. They have ample needs beyond that. We survey our membership at the end of last year and asked, “Other than the money, what else could we be helping you with?” About 20 things that we thought they might answer to give them some prompts. We left it open-ended, too. We heard a lot of things. Most said we need help with grant writing, marketing, social media. Many said we need help with board development and board selection or coaching or performance reviews or my building. Our organization can help with some of those things directly. We have someone who writes grants. My background is strategic planning and business development, communications. Aside from our having to fulfill every one of those needs, what we want to do is serve as a broker between those organizations who have their needs and people in the community who can help you address those needs. Right now, one of our agencies who we had a meeting with last week, they need help with their finances. We connected them with somebody from a local employer who says they think they can help them out. We’re in the middle. We brokered the relationship. We will stay in touch with it and see if this organization can improve its financial situation. There are several who want grant writing help; we can probably provide that directly for them. We are trying to break the mold of us just being an annual check-writer. You all need help in various areas. Don’t be shy asking for help. Tell us, and we will work to get through it. Hugh: That’s great. That’s a great model. People who are listening and reading the article are looking for ideas. How do we up our game? This will live on in its form as a podcast. As we do a wrap here, parts of this article are some of the other entities in the city, in the arts community and the church community. How do you interface with any of those in your work? Do you? Bill: In some cases, we are taking a sit back and wait and see posture. In many cases, we are directly at the table. Some of these efforts have just gotten started. We have United Way, Centra Foundation, Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, and that is one group. We have another group that Nat Marshall has pulled together that is us, Salvation Army, Goodwill, Interfaith Outreach, and a couple others. We are in those very early stages of just talking. Poverty to Progress has its combined effort with Bridges out of Poverty. We are in some of the sub-committees of that. We are not sure exactly what our bigger role in that could be, but we probably need to spend some time with the leaders in that effort, Treney and Hugh, to understand what is a better place for us to plug in. Is there some place we can be more effective in that? Given that is one of our big focus areas—we focus on health, education, income, and basic human needs—under income, poverty is one of the biggest issues that we could possibly talk about addressing. We have things that we’re doing right now that are not yet looped into the Poverty to Progress initiative. We have more to do to build lines of communication there. Again, that is another one we are sitting back and waiting to see where is the best place for us to plug in. It’s broken down into eight or nine groups now. We think we need to try to figure out how to take these lofty conversations and turn those into actionable plans. That is where that effort is now and we may have a role there. Hugh: It’s a shame there’s only one door. You have covered a lot of turf. Bill: You’re the only person who has said that. Hugh: I’m getting tired thinking about it. There are a lot of sub-conversations in there. As we close this out, what thoughts would you share with other leaders who want to move into a partnership or collaborative relationship with their community? What thoughts would you have for them to go forward with? Bill: I’ll take a step back on that question, too. One thing I learned early on when I got into this role, and a certain experience in my life from my past made this role very compelling to me, made me be in a position to help people. As I have met executive directors in all the organizations that we support and other organizations, they tend to have a story. They have some reason they are in that type of work. Nobody gets into nonprofit work because of the glory, fame, and riches; you get into it because you care about it. That to me makes this an incredibly exciting sector to work in. The people that you work with are invigorated because they genuinely care. When you get caught up in operating an organization, you can turn down the light on that part of your brain and your heart and get obsessed with what you have to do today. My thought is when you go into a collaborative effort, remember what brought you there. What brought you there is you wanted to help people, not that you wanted to build an organization. If you can keep the light shining on that, the collaboration falls naturally behind. You have to be willing to let some personal interest go so that the benefit accrues to the community, not necessarily to you or your organization. Hugh: Bill Varner, visionary leader for United Way in central Virginia. Thank you for sharing your wisdom today. Bill: Thank you for your time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How to Use Technology to Stay Audit Ready and Streamline Accounting Interview with CFO Expert Tosha Anderson Tosha Anderson is the founder of The Charity CFO, an organization offering accounting and thought leadership skills to nonprofit agencies. Tosha created The Charity CFO after realizing the need for specialized skills in non-profits with limited financial resources and increasing pressure to keep costs low despite mounting compliance and financial reporting needs. With nonprofit experience as an auditor, a CFO, a board member, a volunteer and a consultant, Tosha works with non-profits with on-going accounting needs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn Why Your Social Media Content Strategy Isn’t Working Interview with Social Media Strategist, Sarah Olea Sarah Olea has had the opportunity of working in customer service, sales, public relations, and marketing. With my experience in these different fields, I have created a marketing agency that encompasses all these areas. I have had the pleasure of working with a variety of clients and help ignite the careers of artists, authors, medical professions, and more. I have worked with small to large brands and have executed creative marketing campaigns to capture engaged audiences. I have a passion for building Social Media strategies and growing my clients’ following. I love collaborating with my team and clients to create engaging viral content. I am a fact-checker and google is my best friend. More about Sarah Olea and her work at https://www.sociallightllc.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cracking the Focus Code to Prevent Chaos James is Author, Speaker, Business Planning Strategist and Business Management Consultant, providing real and permanent solutions to business planning challenges through programs creating radical focus and accountability   Transcript of the Interview with James Burgess Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you today? Russell Dennis:Greetings and salutations. It’s a beautiful day here out in the mountain west. Hugh: And in Virginia, it’s lovely. Our guest is from the Toronto, Canada area. Lovely place. I just love Toronto. It’s like a clean New York City. It’s got all of the great stuff, and it’s clean. It’s got great people there. I love going north of the border. Russell, why don’t you tell people who our guest is and what his sweet spot is? He is going to introduce himself. Russell: Greetings. Today, we have a real treat. We have imported some brilliance from our neighbors to the north up in Canada. We have James Burgess, founder of Focus 31. He is a master business strategist who works with small companies, from start-ups to under $25 million in revenue, who tries to help them get out of their own way by focusing on the right things, creating the right systems. He has done all sorts of work with both businesses, profit-making businesses, not-for-profit entities and is well known throughout the Canada. Many associations he has made presentations to. James, welcome. Why don’t you tell our friends on Facebook a little bit about yourself? James: Thank you, gentlemen. It is absolutely delightful to be with you this afternoon or this morning, depending on how far west your audience reaches. I would like to start before I introduce myself to dispel rumors that Canadians all live in igloos. It is equally gorgeous without the thin air that Denver has. It is about 77 degrees, clear, blue skies, and we are headed probably for about 82 by the weekend. Yes, I live in a house as you can see by the walls behind me. I say that all in fun. But every time I get to educate on what Canada is all about, I take the opportunity. It’s a pleasure to meet all of your listeners, virtually of course. My name is James Burgess. I am a speaker. I am the author of the international best-selling book Chaos: How Business Leaders Can Master the Power of Focus. I’ll give everyone an opportunity to get a free copy of this book at the end of the podcast, so stay on. I am the founder of Focus 31, a business that sells a service that no business owner wants, and yet we do it extremely successfully. Every business owner I sit down with or passes the table where my book is sitting says, “Yep, this is me. My business is in chaos, and I need focus.” Whenever they say “focus,” I know what they also need to be saying is I need accountability. That is entirely what Focus 31 does. I act, or my team acts as virtual CEOs for small businesses, as you indicated, from start-up to up to $25 million in revenue. In the past, we have worked often with not-for-profits to get them understanding just what it is they want to do, where they want to get to, how they are going to get there, and hold their feet to the fire, not in Tony Robbins’ way, but holding their feet to the fire to ensure they in fact act and implement their game plan that will get them to that new platform of success. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Community Groups Can Be Accountable Why community organizations struggle with accounting and what we can do about it Interview with Suzanne Smith Suzanne Smith has lived and worked abroad for over 20 years. Her focus is on training and capacity building. She began as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Niger, working at a rural clinic and focusing on child survival. She went on to work in Bangladesh and then Mozambique, where she managed a microcredit program. She then turned her focus to working with community groups, village health workers and nurses, to strengthen outreach and organizational capacity in the midst of the HIV/AIDS pandemic. Suzanne has worked in Afghanistan, where she helped design and then implemented a life and work skills training for female high school teachers as part of USAID’s PROMOTE. She likes to distill complicated processes to their essence and create systems that are simple and easy to understand. Her trainings are accessible, fun, engaging, and most importantly she makes sure people leave feeling good about themselves and confident in their ability to learn new things Suzanne founded Accountable Partners to make sure community based organizations have the systems, skills and support they need to account for donor funds accurately and transparently, to the last dollar spent. Oftentimes small partners simply do not know how to fulfill a donor’s accounting requirements. More and more, International Donors and NGOs are partnering with small community organizations to achieve their development goals. While programs are being funded and progress is being made, too often these small partners fail to satisfy their donor’s accounting requirements – requirements that are necessary to a fulfill donor’s fiduciary responsibility. Without clear and accurate financial reports from their partners, donors hesitate to disburse the larger funds necessary to scale up activities, and sometimes small partners may lose their funding entirely. Accountable Partners developed a simplified accounting system specifically for small community organizations. We then created The Accountable Partners Academy so we could teach it. The Academy provides NGO/donor field staff with the knowledge, skills, and tools they need to train their small partners in simplified accounting. We know that simple is transparent, simple is accessible and simple is sustainable. The result of our Academy is accurate and transparent financial reports from small partners to their donors. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Success Looks Like For Your Leadership Style: Interview with Leadership Expert Robert Jordan Robert Jordan is the CEO of InterimExecs, which matches top executives with companies around the world. Based on research with thousands of leaders and companies, he and Olivia Wagner wrote "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company," and have launched the FABS Leadership Assessment, a free assessment at RightLeader.com designed to help leaders and organizations perform better. Jordan also authored "How They Did It: Billion Dollar Insights from the Heart of America," and helped publish "Start With No," Jim Camp’s bestseller on negotiation. Robert's work with many nonprofit organizations, in addition to public and private companies, prompted the discovery of four distinct styles of leadership among exceptional executives, and directly led to writing "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company" and developing the FABS Leadership Assessment. Coming to understand and embrace your highest and best use in leadership is a recipe for enhanced success in career, as well as better collaboration with teammates and colleagues. For more information, go to https://interimexecs.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Why Behind Our Businesseswith Vintro’s Founder Noor Sugrue Noor Sugrue, Founder of Vintro, combines her studies at The University of Chicago, studying Economics and Art History, with her role in leading her first business venture. Growing up in an entrepreneurial family, she was always encouraged to go the extra mile and achieve success in whatever she was doing. It is an ethos that has remained with her throughout her education and, more recently, in the creation of Vintro. In 2018, while Noor was still at school, she came up with the original concept for Vintro after watching Shark Tank on TV and realizing how much it takes to get a business idea in front of the right people. Noor recognized that even the best business ideas need support to grow, and too many entrepreneurs and creators don’t know the right person or can’t get the right advice. Vintro changes that. This democratization of access to the influential spurred her to her mission, to let no idea get left behind, and the creation of Vintro for Volunteers within the core Vintro offering. This allows those without the financial resources to access Vintro leaders by using charitable service hours to purchase decision-makers. There is a way to do business and to do good. In today’s world, it is a must that businesses are built with soul and purpose and with a mission. For more information about Vintro go to https://beta.myvintro.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Listen To The Whispers - How to Be, Do, and Have More Without Giving Up The Success That Got You Here You know about The Whispers, but are you really listening or are you still putting them off for "someday," a day that isn't on the calendar? Pursuing what you're feeling pulled to do puts you in your purpose. Then, when you live aligned in that, you become a leader people can trust because they know what you stand for. From there, listening to those you're supporting, those following you, that's the start of Creating a Culture of Caring. Dr. Wayne Pernell, the President of DynamicLeader, Inc. and recognized as the Exponential Success Coach, holds a doctoral degree in clinical psychology and specializes in executive coaching and leadership development across diverse organizations. He is an esteemed international speaker, a number-one best-selling author, and a highly sought elite mindstate coach. https://www.WaynePernell.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Why horses are perfect PTSD co-therapists......Join together in advocating for effective trauma therapy with Michele Fisher Michele Fisher is a Univ. of Michigan educated ( early childhood development) and 16-year CASA volunteer advocating in court and in life for traumatized children in our foster care system. Ms. Fisher has made it her mission in life to connect changemakers with effective mental health offerings, to compromised populations. The impact of this groundbreaking work speaks to otherwise unattainable joy and functionality in the lives of traumatized Americans. The unconventional, yet proven effective, use of the horse as an active participant in the therapeutic process make this modality an unusual yet compelling area for exploration.     Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have interviews with thought leaders every week. Russell, this is somebody you found today. How are you today, Russell? Russell Dennis: Greetings, salutations from sunny Aurora, Colorado, not far from Boulder, where our guest is today. My friend Michele Fisher, who runs a nonprofit that supports people through equine therapy. She is unique in that she raises money for herself, and she funds other projects. We’re going to find out a lot about her secrets and how she is able to juggle both hats and wear both hats and what she looks for, and to talk about how equine therapy is helping veterans and children all over Colorado. Hugh: Let’s jump into this. Michele, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about yourself. Michele Fisher: Thank you, Hugh. Thank you so much, Russ. I am a graduate of the University of Michigan, and my degree is in early childhood development. I am a teacher and have been a teacher and lover of education from the get-go. I decided at a very early age that I wanted to try to help children in a different way, not just through traditional education means by being a teacher. I became a CASA worker. It’s an acronym for Court Appointed Special Advocate. We are volunteers that are trained to work with foster children who have been abused and/or neglected. We help them in life. We actually become life coaches and advocates in court and in their family life for them. This showed me how there were many more opportunities to help not only one child at a time or one classroom at a time, but entire families and entire communities that were compromised or otherwise had survived some sort of trauma. When I lived in Lake Tahoe, I became certified in what was then called the NAHRA program, the North American Handicapped Riders’ Association. Today, it’s called PATH. It’s a particular version or modality of equine therapy that primarily addresses the needs of humans on the autism spectrum and also people who have cerebral palsy. As I married my two new loves, my equine therapy and my CASA work and education work with children, I realized that if there was enough money available for veterans that have PTSD and children who have been traumatized, we would be able to have a permanent impact upon the mental health in our society. As I became more and more involved in the mental health arena through my CASA work and also through the equine therapy work, I was struck and dumbfounded by how remarkably effective working with the horses was with people who were frankly quite emotionally ravaged and even physically ravaged in their lives. This became almost an obsession with me to find out why this connection was so different from other forms of traditional modalities and therapies when we are trying to help victims of trauma of all sorts try to live normal lives. I say “normal” knowing there is nothing normal. Joy-filled lives, trying to live lives with fulfillment and with absence of emotional and mental pain. I started to volunteer as a horse handler at various equine therapy barns around my area in Boulder, Longmont, Lafayette, Lewisville, Colorado. I learned there is an entire tribe of incredibly skilled, passionate, knowledgeable people who are doing this work, not only here in Colorado, which happens to be a hotbed of equine therapy, I’ve learned, but also all over the country and in eastern Europe as well. I started The Healing Hoof in order to raise money for people who couldn’t afford equine therapy in order to get the benefit of it. In that, I’ve also learned how to find the vibe of my tribe, which I think is a really important learning for executive directors and other individuals involved in nonprofit work. Whether you are awarding grants, receiving grants, or doing some mix of both, or whether you are not even involved in the grant world, but maybe you are accepting donations or sponsorships, no matter what means you are using to generate energy and create a new life for your nonprofit, I think it’s incredibly important to make sure that you find the right people. That is what I mean by find the vibe of your tribe. I’ll tell you a short story, an anecdote. I was a director of business development for a nonprofit in Lakewood for a while before I immersed myself fully into my own nonprofit. During that time, one of the very large mega oil producers in Weld County approached us and asked if they could partner with us in order to gain positive PR. Their philosophy was that because many folks in Colorado are opposed to fracking, and they work here and have to work with us—gee, did I just say something about my political opinions?—they have a hard time really getting community buy-in to what they’re doing. What they came to us for was to spend a lot of money in several communities on the I-25 corridor in the heart of Weld County, where the bulk of their operations exist, to build things like rec centers or community places where the community could come, and they would name it after themselves so that the community could see them as a more friendly player. At that company, we thought that was a great idea, and they were willing to pay us a great amount of money to do it. Fast forward to now marketing this nonprofit. I am speaking to all thought leaders in the nonprofit sector. As a marketer and a business development person, my mind went to, Wow, how many veterans and kids could I help with their checkbook? Maybe I should approach them to become a sponsor. I did my research, and I looked at the websites, and I dug deeper and deeper into their fiscal plans and all of the information I could garner from each of seven or eight of the larger to mid-size operators. What I found was that they are not my tribe. The reason they’re not my tribe is because of who they really are intrinsically and the way that they choose to present themselves to the community. I’m not saying this is true for all of the operators, but these large ones I did research on. What I found was deception. What I found was that they promised to show certain things or reveal certain things they really didn’t. Even though I probably could’ve gone down that path and gotten significant sponsorship dollars for my foundation, I decided not to because in the end, the only real support that we will get for our individual passions and for our work that we’re doing is from the people who are authentically attached to it passionately and in their hearts and souls, not just as a job each day. I tell that story because I think that as businesspeople and as responsible executive directors and volunteers and different kinds of people that work to make this world better on many different planes, sometimes we get lost in trying to raise money and making that the goal because it is paramount not only to our success but to our survival. Of course, we must keep our eye on that ball. But I ask for us today to open some space to consider being a little bit more selective and taking a long-term view in exchange for a shorter-term relationship that may end up working out for the short run, may get you some bad press or not. In the end, if it’s not really part of your vision and your mission and your heart, then I don’t believe it’s worth pursuing, even if it glitters a lot. Hugh: Michele, how long have you been doing The Healing Hoof foundation?   Michele: We started in 2013. We have really just begun to become vibrant and active. Life got in the way a little bit with me between then and now, which prevented me from really going full force into this. Now, I am able to do that. We’re having our first event this summer, August 11 in Longmont. We are going to have a really fun event with a very well-known a capella rock band called Face Vocal Band, which will be our headline entertainment there. We are looking to make a splash into the Denver market with lots of great grant funding and lots of opportunity for veterans and kids and people who need to address issues relative to their trauma. Hugh: Russell, you’ve been carefully paying attention. I’m sure you have some questions for Michele. Russell: We met fairly recently, and we have been working together to move things forward. The ability to build relationships that help you raise money and fund projects takes a bit of juggling. What I wanted to ask Michele is what are three things that you look for in collaborative partners, whether you are getting them to write you a check or you are writing them a check? Michele: The first thing I look for is authenticity. Are they really who they purport to be? Are they really doing the work they say they’re doing? Are they passionate? Are they involved? Are they engaged? That is the most important thing: their dedication from inside to the work that they’re doing. Then I look for their wherewithal. Are they emotionally balanced? Are they able to carry forward this work? Are they able to do the work they set out to do and accomplish their goals? Are they well balanced and able to be a leader? The third thing would be for whom are they the sphere of influence? When I start to gather my tribe of those I want to help and those I would like to help me help them, I want to make sure that we have the same spirit of moving money. I’m dedicated to moving the money that I receive so that it can work. Whereas I appreciate people who make a lot of money and have a lot of resources. If they are not willing to move these resources and allow them to be a part of the commerce of healing and making our world better, then they are not a good partner for me. And they need to smile. Russell: You don’t smile very much. Michele: Not much. Russell: With that said, looking for these things in the collaborative partners, there are things that you do that make you successful. What would you say are the three key ingredients to your success, both before and after you started this project and this journey? Michele: #1, I am willing to say no. That is a difficult thing, especially for those of us in this world who have inherently large hearts and say yes too often around the table and then cry on the way home trying to figure out how to fulfill that promise. I think the ability to draw boundaries when it’s appropriate, to say no to the opportunities that are not good for everyone, and to recognize what is really a win-win for all of the people and animals involved. For example, one of our strong tenements is to fund barns and equine therapists who take excellent care of their horses, who don’t overuse the land, who try to use organic products and not a lot of chemicals. It’s not just the mental health of the child or the adult that we’re concerned about. We want to make sure that our horses are happy and healthy. They are co-therapists. They are important to us. They are sentient beings who we respect a great deal. That is part of what is very important to us, too. That does set us apart. There are some people who will do some equine therapy. Just come and pet my horse. Get on my horse and ride. There is a certain kind of therapy or equine experience associated with that, but we are pretty picky about who we fund. We fund therapists that are licensed and have experience. Depending on what you come to us with, what your maladies are, whether they’re physical, emotional, mental, or some combination will depend on which barns we might recommend for you or what type of equine therapy we suggest might be the most impactful for your particular issues you’re dealing with or way of life or concerns or experiences. Everything is individual. Russell: That is one of the hallmarks of effective collaboration when people come to you. Having that network of people and being willing to share the wealth so to speak. I know people who do certain types of therapies for certain types of people. We’re well aware of both strategy and collaboration here at SynerVision. One of the things that Beth Cantor, who is an expert at nonprofit social media, she wrote a book called The Healthy, Happy Nonprofit. She talks about the importance of taking care of yourself, which you emphasized here. How important is it for nonprofit leaders to take care of themselves in order to be effective at actually serving others? What would you say are the three most important things a nonprofit leader could do to take care of themselves so they are effective at helping other people? Michele: Russ, it’s not only important, it’s critical. One cannot be effective if they are not well cared for. There is a reason that the flight attendants tell us to put the oxygen masks on ourselves first. If we are not fully present, and our cup isn’t full, then we are not able to give to others fully, authentically, and give everything they truly need. I believe in two-hour massages. Not one-hour massages. After one hour, I’m just getting relaxed, and the Jello is just setting. Two-hour massages. Yes, it will cost a little more money, but it will go a lot further. Massages. Happiness. To do what really brings you joy, whether it’s dancing or singing or drinking a cup of coffee at six o’clock in the morning and watching the sun rise or climbing up on my horses at midnight when I can’t sleep or breathing or yoga or taking a walk or a bath or having a good argument or discussion or reading a book or knitting or sports. Whatever it is. Find out, like my good friend Cody Qualls from Face Vocal Band says, “What’s your jam?” Get your jam on. Your jam. I think that’s a really important thing to know about ourselves, and to give us permission to indulge in. If you have children, if you are involved in your work or extracurricular activities, or taking care of parents, we all need to fill ourselves up. There are some schools of thought that will have us believe that is a selfish act, or that it is not giving to take care of yourself first. We all have to negotiate that particular conversation and value amongst ourselves and the people we engage with. But there is nothing wrong with meeting your own needs. Eating healthy, great food. I have had people say to me, “I can’t afford to eat organic,” and they have the latest version of the newest iPhone. It depends on what you value. If you value your longevity, if you value what you have to give, you will be able to give it for a long time and to give much more quality in terms of your knowledge, wisdom, offering, service, or products if you take care of yourself. That is one thing. Get massages. Engage with people. Find your own personal tribe. Laugh with people. Cry with people. Engage. For me, this might not be for everyone, engage with animals. That to me is a big part of my own personal well-being. I know it’s not for everybody. But if you are a meow or a bark or a neigh, go do your neigh neigh. Find your neigh neigh. It might not be a horse. Russell: I can’t be of service to others unless I’m at my best. You are by trade a teacher from the University of Michigan. As a lifelong fan of the Ohio State Buckeyes, I never thought in a thousand years I would meet a Michigan Wolverine I like as much as I like you. We just connected and clicked on so many levels. You started your career. You have been working very closely for a long time with children. You chose to serve children. As a Court Appointed Special Advocate in three counties, you still are serving children at a high level. Talk a little bit about the therapy work that you’ve done with children and why horses are perfect for helping children through any challenges they have. Michele: Why children? Because children are our future. Children are our hope. Children represent the continuity of our very being and species. They are so magically delightful that when they honor me by allowing me to pick them up or care for them or laugh with them, it just touches my heart deeply. I find them to be so varied and open. They teach me so much. I learn so much from kids that adults are just kind of a little bit jaded or dead sometimes. It keeps me alive. It keeps me willing to be a little different and think of things in a different way. It also allows me to see the world literally from a different point of view. When you look at the world from a three-year-old’s view, and you are looking at mostly table legs or humans’ knees, it’s a very different way of looking at the world, and it gives me compassion for needing to work harder to look into people’s eyes and to be able to meet them on a deep level. Children allow me to do that and foster that for me. I think they bring life and honesty and joyfulness to most situations. That is what draws me to children. It makes me feel so great when I am still in touch with an 18-year-old child who I got as a CASA child when she was 18 months old out of a horrific situation, and today she is a pediatrician. Russell: That sense of possibility is impossible among children. They’re small. Talk a little bit about how being a Court Appointed Special Advocate played into you starting your own foundation. What we are talking about with PTSD is trauma at the highest level. Michele: So when I first became a CASA member, a lot of people would respond to the news by saying, “Oh my God, how could you do that work? I could never do that work. I love children so much, and I’m so sensitive to them.” I’m here to tell you that I can do the work because I love children so much. It hurts me to see what people do to children. Every single time, it breaks my heart. Even after 18 years—she’s not a pediatrician yet, she’s in school—after 18 years, I still cry. I still feel very deeply, but never in court, never in front of them. It gives me power, it empowers me because if a child can stand up and put one foot in front of the other after what they’ve experienced with so little resources and so little support, then who am I, this privileged white woman, to say that I can’t go out and raise money and help people and do what I know I can do? I find that strength in those cases. I find my wherewithal. I find that I can take on a tougher family. I can take on a gang member. I can work with these people. I’m not afraid anymore. What they have taught me is how to grit my teeth and get what I want. It was a message that my father taught me that they are reinforcing that has been valuable. Even when it looks like there is nothing, I don’t know if you know who David Pelzer is. A Boy Named It was the book he wrote; he was the spokesperson for CASA, as are Dr. Phil and his wife, Robin. But what they show us is how the human spirit knows no bounds and that if we will just reach out a little bit and give just a finger up, a hand up, an arm up, whatever we can afford to spread around, what blooms is so much greater than the small seed that we once planted. Now many of these children are leading productive, contributatory lives in society. I’m not going to say it; it would not be deserving to say just because of me. But I did play a role in their self-confidence, in bringing them hope, that there is an adult who will listen, and in learning to use resources. That keeps my engine going. There are plenty more children and people who are suffering that I can help through using my education, experience, mind, resources, and wherewithal to bring awareness to what they need. There are people who will help. We just have to ask the right people. Russell: This work is taking place with small children, with teenagers. Some have been in gangs, but they have experienced all of this trauma. City kids. Connectedness is important as far as reaching children. I’m sure a lot of our nonprofit leaders who watch here work with youth and children. Equine therapy is a unique, out-of-the-box, fairly new way of approaching working with these kids. Horses are very large animals.   Michele: Most of them. Russell: The sight of a horse, even for an adult, you look up and see this huge animal, they have experienced all of this trauma, and there is probably some fear going on around that. How do you ease the children and these young people you work with- Same thing could be with veterans that you work with. When people have experienced this trauma, there is a fear factor going on. How do you bridge that and let these folks know you’re safe here so that they can ease into actually building the relationship with the animal? Michele: Great question. I use the principles of an author by the name of Gavin de Becker. He protects one of the presidents. I don’t know if it’s the current president or Obama. He is also an author. He wrote the book The Gift of Fear. The principle is that fear is useful. Fear exists in us for a reason. It is to be paid attention to, not to be overridden, ignored, or otherwise bulldozed through. Your question is so wonderful. Why horses? How do we mitigate fear? Horses help us to mitigate fear. Not only by virtue of their size and maybe other people’s experiences or what people have heard about horses, they not only induce fear, but they also help us to bring our fears out and put them on the table. For example, no matter who the herd of horses that I pick, if I bring a client that has a boundaries problem, one of those horses is going to get up into her face and make that client deal with her boundaries. They know. They just know that what you’re feeling inside. Why fear? We use the fear as a therapeutic form to become aware of, to understand that these are feelings to name what that really is that you’re feeling, and to be able to talk about it and why. Where else in your life do you feel fear? How is this like other fearful situations? How is it different? There is a plethora of conversations that then ensue because we use trained therapists who not only take advantage of these situations, but they foster the discussion. They’re talented and skillful enough to recognize when a person is feeling fearful or trepidation, and move in and relieve it and talk about it, so that processing occurs. Once processing occurs, then healing can start to live there. You can plant a seed of healing. Horses are remarkable beings. They are extremely intuitive. That old adage: horses know you’re afraid, so pretend you’re not. The first half is true, and the second half just doesn’t work. If you’re afraid, the horse knows you’re afraid, so you might as well just stand there and say, “I’m scared,” or “Hey, it’s okay, buddy.” If you walk in with a lot of bravado and pretend you know what’s going on and go into the horse’s space, he/she will let you know. They won’t hurt you. But they will somehow recognize who you are and find a way to let you know that’s not okay. As we get managed in our behavior by the herd, there are lots of opportunities for us to talk about our own personal herds. Who are our relationships? We let our clients watch the herd interact. There they are in their families. Every single one of them can find their mother, father, boyfriend, little brother, someone to bring up issues that are yet not dealt with and still wreaking havoc with their joy. Horses do that. They have a very large nervous system. Just being around them will calm you. Some people just want to stand near them. Some people just take chairs and go in the stalls and breathe with them or listen to them eat. It’s very relaxing. There is a whole gamut of why horses work for certain people. The theme is that they do. Not every horse wants to be a therapy horse by the way. You can’t just pull over by the side of the road, jump into a corral, and make yourself feel better. It may work. But not every horse wants to engage. Not every horse wants to engage with people who are triggered, or triggered easily, or on medication, or going through withdrawal, or having some of the human experiences that we do. Bu the ones that are are all there. Often, they’ve had professional lives being competitive horses, hunters, jumpers, Western, reining horses, English, equitation on the flat. Many of them were very successful. They don’t have anything to prove. Now they’re like we are. They are in the time of their life when they are settled and ready to give back. Russell: Just looking out, there hasn’t been a lot of data collection on equine therapy and studies on how that helps people. You and I went to see some folks at the United Veterans’ Committee of Colorado. When you introduced yourself, people gravitated to you right away because the first words out of their mouths were, “This works.” Talk about some of what people who are exposed to this and who take on equine therapy, talk about some of the benefits and results you have been able to give people. Michele: Sure, thank you. One of the things that really stands out in my mind is their ability to cope. They have a toolbox now that they didn’t have before. I’m not saying it’s the only toolbox they have. It is one that they will always have and one that works every time. Because of that, they are more grounded. They are happier. They are easier to get along with. The children represent less behavior problems in school. They get along with their parents, foster parents, stepsiblings, and siblings much better than they used to. They are able to be more proactive in their own lives. They found a way to not just blow up. They have found coping mechanisms. They found the ability to recognize when they are having trouble. The ability to recognize and having a toolbox are two things that can really change people’s lives. Those are the kinds of things that we impart into their world, into their ability, their resources to be able to go to. Russell: One of the things, going back to our meeting with the veterans here in Colorado at UVC, that they spoke to, was the epidemic of veteran suicides. This has become a national issue. Although there has been a lot of awareness over the last four or five years certainly, the mental health profession has not really been able to make a significant dent in it. As a matter of fact, the first time I started hearing statistics seven or eight years ago, there were 18-20 veterans a day committing suicide. That is up to about 23 a day now. I know a lot of mental health resources have been put into that. A lot of people are doing work toward it. But we haven’t made a dent in it. With equine therapy being new, people might say, “I’ve tried some other things.” What would you talk to them about as far as: Are you a candidate? Are you someone who would benefit from equine therapy? Who does equine therapy help? Who is predisposed to getting better results? How would you handle that type of conversation? What are some of the things you would say to those folks who may be on the fence about trying it?   Michele: I would say jump over that fence and come on over. I don’t know if you know this, but I have a personal story with suicide. My husband committed suicide in 1999. My personal experience with it is part of what motivates me to really be involved with the veterans. The fact that I see it escalating and not decreasing is even more motivation to do it quickly and in a large way and to try and get involved from a legislative perspective and try to get equine therapy involved and try to get these men and women into groups that are where they belong and where the rubber meets the road in terms of what they’re dealing with and how we can help them to have less of it. I’m not saying we’re the panacea, but it is the best kind of therapy that I’ve ever been exposed to in terms of impact and the amount of joy that it allows people to feel in their lives for a longer period of time and in a deeper, meaningful, lasting way. Yes, suicide prevention is something that is very much part of our work. We take it very seriously. We have some people in our network who are specialists. Not only are they veterans, but they are also equine specialists. We feel like we’re a really good resource for the veterans. We really want to make an impact and help to reduce that number down to nothing, or at least single digits, in the next year or two if we can. Hugh: It’s an alarming number. I’ve seen it escalate. When we started out, I thought maybe she had a green screen image like me, but it kept moving. The horse that is grazing is right in the picture. This is from the ranch. I’m wondering, you’re really articulate. You’re really focused. You’re passionate about what you’re doing. What do you do for self-care as a leader? It’s not a straight line developing an organization. You’ve been through some life trauma yourself. How do you keep yourself not only on the cutting edge of what you’re doing, but balanced—you’ve set some boundaries as you mentioned—and growing as a leader? How do you care for yourself? Michele: I like to do workshops. I like to look for leaders who I admire and whom I would like to adopt some of their means of work. I go to different places and do workshops and educate myself. I further myself mentally and spiritually. I take time to expand, not only in terms of mental health and how we can help veterans and children, but also where I need to grow. I do therapy for myself. I invest in relationships and get a lot of feedback from people and take their advice. I actually ask people what areas need to be improved. As far as leadership, I like to go away with people. I like to go on things that are kind of like retreats or weekends and just focus on, or even have a lunch or spend time with other thought leaders in a relaxing atmosphere to really just share ideas and not pursue the agenda so that we can expand ourselves and be more elastic instead of just doing our work every single day. That is expected of us. How can we get bigger? How can we have new ideas and see things in different ways? I like to be involved with people in all different kinds of ways. Hugh: That’s a great answer. What do you think, Russell? That is a balanced approach to staying centered as a leader. Russell: A podcaster James Altucher, whose books I’ve been reading, talks about that. He talks about improving 1% a day. I don’t remember where he got that, but he said improving 1% a day helps him to get better. One of the things he does is write down 10 ideas every day. He says it’s the ideas that move people. Ideas move things forward. He writes down ideas. Not all 10 of them may be good. But getting into the practice of doing that helps you expand, helps you grow and shift into who you are. We’re big fans here at SynerVision of learning. We’re building toolkits all the time for people to come into the community and take advantage of. Leaders are readers. That might be a green screen, but Hugh reads a lot of books. He’s written some. Soon, we’re going to be talking about some of the books that are out there that we’ve read that some of our guests have written, and talk about some of the lessons we learned from them and some things we can apply to put to work for ourselves. Along that line, talk to us about some things that you’ve written and read that have been helpful to you on your journey in making a difference in the lives of other people. Michele: I think my go-to resource is the book by Dr. Charles Whitfield on boundaries. He might not even be with us anymore. He was in his 90s a while ago. It is a go-to place for me because no matter what walk of life you choose, and no matter what kind of people you surround yourself with, it’s important to be able to recognize what their boundaries are in order to maintain respectful relationships and boundaries that go deep and get intimate. It also talks from a psychological point of view why we need to be able to understand what our own personal boundaries are because it gives us room for our own mental health and our space to be able to stay emotionally fluid and healthy and available to be able to function and contribute as a human on the planet instead of taking away. I’m not saying people who are needy are taking away. I’m saying people who impose upon others and strip us of our dignity and our respective selves. That is one of the most important books I really like. Another great book is by the daughter of either H or R Block. Her name escapes me right now. Prince Charming Isn’t Coming. It’s a lovely book. I see you’re chuckling. It’s true. By the way, Prince Charming isn’t coming. I love that book because it really reinforces that we are responsible for ourselves, and that we can take responsibility no matter what our learnings previously or understandings have been. We can move on at whatever age to know who we are and to take care of our own needs. I love that message in that book. Another one would be Judith Durek, Circle of Stones. You could read this book in an hour. It’s a book about what your life would have been like if you had been offered all of the support from your tribe that you needed at every step of the way. If you were in the sweat lodge with all of your tribe members, and your elders were teaching you about how it is to be a man or a woman, instead of the kind of life that you led, what would that be like for you? It’s a wonderful springboard into what if. It allows us to fantasize about what we still could be. I really love that. She presents it in an easy-to-read, lightly anecdotal format. I think those would be the three go-to places. Another author I must talk about is Andrew Sam Newman. You must listen to his TED Talk. He writes children’s books. They are the best children’s books I’ve ever read. I majored in kiddie lit. I read a lot of children’s books. The reason they’re so good and so meaningful is because of the values that they impart and because of the way they set up reading time and the way they foster intimacy and create joy and love around reading. He writes just the greatest books. Whether you have children or not, you must familiarize yourself with him. He has a delightful soul. Hugh: You have a little sparkle in your eye when you talk about that. Michele, as we wrap up this good interview, lots of useful information, we like for people to tell their own stories because it’s encouragement for those who are starting out or for those who are stuck. You can make a pathway if you are determined to do it, but if you have a strategy and a team around you and a clear way of talking about your vision and why you should support it. We will give you a chance to share a closing thought, tip, or challenge. We have great leaders, but they need help to get them to where they need to be with it. You get to have the last word. Russell closes us out and says sayonara at the end. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* We close out this interview with you giving the last word to people. What thought do you want to leave people with? Michele: There are two things I would like to ask. First, I would like to say thank you for all of the work that you’re doing. The two things I’d like to ask are these. Today. I’d like to ask you to do two things today. 1) Ask for something you have previously been afraid to ask for. 2) Spontaneously help someone. I want to thank you so much for listening today. I want to let you know we appreciate all of the work you’re doing. Hope to see you August 11 in Lafayette. We’re at TheHealingHoof.org. Russell: Thank you, Michele. This has been a really great interview. It’s a pleasure working with you. I’m looking forward to continuing and making that impact here on the front range with the wonderful program you have. A lot of people out there. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why Use a Benefit Auctioneer: Interview with Dean Crownover Why hire a professional for the fundraising (it’s so much cheaper to do it on our own)!? Hey – valid question. What a lot of people don’t realize is that auctioneers need to be licensed in many states – like Georgia, North Carolina and Alabama. There are legalities around selling items, even for charity, and you need to be covered. Make sure you know the rules for your state. What’s even more important for your nonprofit, though, is that a professional auctioneer can maximize the revenue you generate at your event. After all, why put in all the time and effort of hosting a gala NOT to generate the most money you possibly can to support your mission? And if you ARE hiring a professional, check out Chapter 7 of my book to learn how to hire a benefit auctioneer for your event. You’ll want to know some important details like… How much experience do they have being a profit consultant? How much funds have they helped raise? Who else have they worked with (and were their clients happy)? An auctioneer can boost the price of your auction items and (hopefully) keep your audience entertained, but are they holistically looking at your whole event and identifying ways to increase funds and revenue? This is my FAVORITE part of what I do. As a Profit Consultant I look for all areas and opportunities to cover your event costs, increase the amount people give and new ways to create more revenue even before or after the event is over. Then, at your event, I auction-tain your donors from stage to open their wallets and give generously! Dean Crownover, My Benefit Auctioneer, is a Profit Consultant and author, with a track record of raising millions of fundraising dollars for his nonprofit clients. Jane Fonda said “Dean Crownover is a dynamic auctioneer with the fast-talking pizzazz needed to rake it in!” He is the author of PADDLES UP! My Benefit Auctioneer Reveals Post-2020 Gala Fundraiser Secrets. The book shares proven fundraising strategies, including those that emerged from virtual events during the pandemic, and how they can be incorporated for live events. More about Dean Crownover at https://www.MyBenefitAuctioneer.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Engaging Volunteers to Advance Your Mission Volunteers aren't free, but if you invest in them wisely, through good training and strong leadership, they will provide you with a return on investment for your mission that is unmatched by any other investment you could make. Karen Knight is a consultant, volunteer leadership expert, and dynamic and engaging speaker. Karen has used her 25 years of experience as a leader and mentor in the social impact sector and her extensive research in the field to create a proprietary framework for turning volunteers into an enthusiastic, reliable, and committed team. More at https://karenknight.ca/ http://TheNonprofitExchange https://SynerVisionLeadership.org #KarenKnight #HughBallou #volunteers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ed Bogle is a Strategic Planning Consultant that serves as a mentor, coach and consultant to entrepreneurs and non-profit executives. In the case of non-profits, Ed specializes in developing and implementing innovative solutions in defining their strategic value to those they serve and building a "brand" that moves beyond scarcity to a level of abundance.  His firm ideationEDGE works with their clients to understand their "value" creation and "revenue" production. He has worked with and served as a coach and mentor to several non-profits and two of Inc Magazine's Entrepreneur of the Year regional winners. He developed a deep passion for non-profits through a frustration from serving on boards and seeing great visionary work die due to funding shortages and donor fatigue.  Understanding revenues and creating abundance comes from carefully crafted strategies driven from a long-term vision and a constancy of purpose. Some questions to ponder: What is strategy and why is it important to the charity I lead? Does a written strategic plan limit my creativity? Why and how should me board be involved in the planning? How does anyone predict the future with any success? Here's the Transcript Nonprofit Chat – Ed Bogle – 7/18/17 Hugh Ballou: Welcome. It’s another session of the Nonprofit Chat live. We’re going to talk about some important stuff tonight. Russell Dennis has been my co-host on this series. Russell, how are you doing tonight? Russell Dennis: It’s another fine night here in the mountain west. Beautiful skies and life is good. Hugh: You are always good. We are in the old mountains. I am in southwest Virginia, and it’s a lovely evening. We have a mutual friend on here tonight. Besides that, we know he is a very skilled professional. We know he works with business leaders on all levels. He has a special niche of helping entrepreneurs get clarity on what their vision is, on what their market is, and how we get there. We call that strategy. He has done some amazing projects with some specific nonprofits, and there have been some that have really done well. Ed understands the nonprofit space. He understands what the challenges are, and how to come around and address those challenges. Ed, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight. Ed: Thanks, Hugh. I am privileged to be here. I have a great passion for the nonprofit world. We need them to do their jobs and live their vision and mission so we can make it a better world. I will do what I can to help. Hugh: Somebody once taught me that the work of nonprofits is more important now than ever before in history, and there are fewer resources. We have to do really well at describing the impact we are going to have in people’s lives. I think it was a guy named Ed Bogle who told that to me. Ed: I had a good idea about some of that stuff now, didn’t I? Well, you know, so many nonprofits, and even our churches, come from a position of scarcity so often. That clarity of vision and that clarity of the persona, the branding, you talked a couple sessions ago about the branding world, it is what gets people excited to your brand. It has a business flavor to it. When we do that, we find some pretty magnanimous results. We really like to carry into the nonprofit a lot of the business sector stuff and hopefully do it better. Hugh: Our friend David Corbin talked about brand slaughter. We illuminated a few things in that session, as you might expect. Everybody has a uniqueness to share about this. As I understand strategy, it is the framework that is going to help us engage our stakeholders. Otherwise, people are hunting for what to do. It’s the clarity of the sequence. It’s the railroad tracks to get you from where you are to where you want to be. Before we get into the strategy world, let’s talk about the Bogle world. It’s not the wine Bogle world; it’s the Ed Bogle world. Ed: I drink a lot of that. Nah, I’m kidding. Hugh: But your people bring it over and you have a whole closetful. Ed: At one time, we had 45 bottles of Bogle wine in our house. Hugh: I know what to ask for next time I’m there. Let’s talk about Ed Bogle. Who is Ed Bogle, and what is your background in strategy, and why is that important to you? We’ll talk about you first, and then we’ll talk about it for others. Ed: Basically, my undergraduate was in marketing, and my graduate degree was in strategy. But I was trained as an investment banker and commercial lender until that bank brought in a new president and said, “We want you to be the marketing and strategy guy because you have the educational background for it. You just finished our year-long management and development program, so you can do that.” I took that on, and the long and short of that story is that we grew the bank from $250 million to $1.6 billion in less than four years without an acquisition. It was all organic growth because he gave me carte blanche to focus on what was changing in the marketplace and how we related to our customers. That early on lesson was all about getting not only outside of the box, but it was innovating. We did some innovating stuff. Some of you may have heard of a little piece of equipment called an ATM. We put the first remote automated teller system in the country out. We put 12 units out all at once and promoted the living daylights out of it. That was 1975. The importance of that lesson is to look for the innovation, to look for the change. We so far exceeded our own expectations of what that would do. After I left the banking industry, I went to work for a little firm called Ernst and Young, then one of the big eight. I was part of a team of seven that built their strategy process over about a year long. Then I was leading a team of three to adopt that to the entrepreneurial services world. It was in my days at Ernst and Young that I had my first brushes with the nonprofit world. I saw a lot of people running around with a lot of tasks and people holding out their hats begging for the same donors every year. That is where I learned a term called donor fatigue, which all of us are familiar with. We wear them out. While I was at Ernst and Young, we created a process called focus strategic framework. Our plans end up on one page, and we have used it in the nonprofit sector as well as the church sector. It’s all about change. One of the great lessons of strategy that I learned through that course of effort is one of the only constants is change. If you agree that the world is going to change, and you agree it is pretty unpredictable. Back when I used to speak and lecture, I asked, “How many people believe the conditions under which your business exist today will be the same three years from now?” I have never had anybody raise their hands. I would suspect that would be true in the nonprofit world. The way you conduct your business won’t be the same three years from now. You get that clarity of vision, that clarity of purpose, that engagement culture that really goes with this. People ride for the brand. That is the critical part of the integration of the framework process. We have a new vision, mission, brand strategy. We have set objectives and all of that, and we know that is going to change, so we like to get people on a horizon of 5-7 years out, then concentrate what we are going to do the next 12-18 months. Then build such a culture internally that people are engaged in change. They have their antennae out. It’s not solely the responsibility of the leadership of any organization; it’s a responsibility of everybody. I don’t know if the brand guys talk to this, but if I can get anybody in my organization riding for the brand—they defend the brand, understand the brand, have clarity on vision, mission, purpose of the organization—their role in fulfilling the brand, and I am not talking about their job description. If I get that, then I will have the ability to change and integrate and build a culture that will be successful. Then if I study the marketplace, it starts and stops with a customer or somebody that you are engaging in your organization. It starts with your constituents, your stakeholders. How are we creating value for them, and how do we create that value over time? If I pick on the churches for just a second, why is it that all the big churches out there now seem to be these rock ’n’ roll churches? The non-traditional churches are having trouble getting people in their pews, yet the churches like- There is one here that has 26 locations around the country called Life Church. They have four locations in Tulsa. That place is packed. They have six services on Sunday, and all six of them are packed. Where is that coming from? It’s all about understanding your target market and how you serve them. I’ll quit there; otherwise, it will start to feel like I am teaching class. Hugh: That is part of what it is. Russ, does that pique some interest for you? Russell: It all makes perfect sense. These are some of the things that I have been trying to convey to people in creating a framework when I work with nonprofits. It’s getting to that mission and understanding who you are at your core. Knowing people at your very core is important. Those churches with the music, what they are going to find is they have a younger audience. You’re going out there and really talking to markets. It almost seems like dirty language to some in the nonprofit world, but what we have are customers; we just have different segments. Donors are one segment. The people who get your services are the other. If you don’t understand what they need, the people that you put programs together to serve, nobody will access your services. I have had talks with people who say, “I don’t get it. Nobody is coming.” We went through and talked about what some of those needs for those clients were. There is definitely a need, but they decided they are going to operate out of a location that was not accessible to the people they wanted to serve. Hugh: The church world is not very different than some of the other worlds. I was on a chamber webinar today with one of the chambers in Florida. Engagement, and especially engagement with millennials, but they said the other organizations in the neighborhood, the rotaries and other service clubs, have had sidebar with the chamber saying that they are having trouble growing their membership. They are having trouble engaging people. It was a whole session about board empowerment today. I suggested with a lack of strategy, people don’t know where to be engaged or what to do. They aren’t really clear what the endgame is. Furthermore, if they weren’t part of the initial planning process, or at last a revision or upgrading, and doing tactics for the long-term objectives, they really aren’t engaged at all. There is a trend for boards not to be effective. Let’s go back to the centrality of strategy. As you know, I approach the world with the left and right brain. As a musician, we have a very specific framework. In music, it’s the sheet music itself, the musical score. All the players have their parts. The analogy I make is that it’s their strategy, and everybody on the team has their own piece of the action plan. They know when to play, how loud to play, how fast to play, and we direct the process rather than try to do it all. There is the heavy lifting on the front to put that together. Respond to some of that long dialogue about strategy. I am an Ed Bogle strategy fan. You strategize your life as well as everyone else. Ed: My wife also told me that that didn’t work very well in strategizing your life and the raising of your children. With the latter, I would totally agree. It’s impossible to strategize raising children, so give it up if you are trying it. I tried it, and it didn’t work. In response to what you were talking about, Hugh, the whole thing is you want everybody in your organization to be bought into the mission and vision of what you are doing. Therefore, they need to be a part of it. That doesn’t mean they need to sit through long planning meetings, but they need to be a part of the development of that strategy. In particular, one of the things we do oftentimes is we have people in the organization that have different roles or employees, in the case of some of them, that they write their description of their role. Not their job description, not their daily task, but what is their role in completing or living to that vision and mission of that organization? It’s stunning what we come up with. If we attach them to this one-page framework, or any framework you use, what happens is they now have ownership. Russell mentioned common sense earlier, and the old adage is that it’s not so common. What in particular that gives organizations sustainability, stickability, is the engagement of cultures. I want people internally riding for the brand. That means they are bought into that constant collaboration and innovation. They don’t have silos of jobs. They are wrapped around what is our value, our brand promise is to our constituents. What is our brand position? How do they attach to that? What is their role in doing that? We use a few tools to do that. Hugh, I know you have a few things you do with organizations to bring them to that level. Gosh, if they’ve got this framework down and they understand it. If you give them vision, if you have a one-page framework that links from mission to vision, values, purposes, grand strategy all the way out to long-term objectives, competencies, capabilities, long-term objectives, short-term objectives, strategies, and action plan, it’s a big one page. At the end of the day, I have had clients blow up wall-size versions of this framework, and we would do training sessions where they would work with their division, their people, for themselves individually as to how I am attached to that framework, that strategy. Then they would all autograph it. There is one client I started working with nearly 30 years ago that still does that stuff. They are running out of places for people to sign. It’s amazing the difference it makes when you bring that level of consciousness up for their connection to the organization, vision and mission, as opposed to a set of tasks, a job task. It’s critically important. I don’t care if you’re a charity, church, or for-profit. In today’s world, if the only constant is change, how do you change? You have to have the people going with you. In fact, if you really look deeply at innovation in organizations, it usually comes from the lowest level, who are the people closest to our constituents or customers. Am I making any sense? Hugh: You are. Addressing the needs of the world. When you teach, usually when I am with you, you are teaching me. You don’t know it, but I am listening. The describing the impact, especially for charities. If we are going to attract people who want to be engaged with us, as you know, in SynerVision, we are encouraging people to use other words than “volunteer.” We want servant leaders, we want community leaders, and in churches, we want members of ministry. There is another term that indicates they are active and are doing something meaningful. Volunteer means it’s laidback and I will do what I have to do until I go home. We are about changing paradigms, and we get stuck in the activity mode rather than the results mode. Part of what I value about your teaching is we define the end result, we look at what we are going toward, so then we get people looking in the same direction. I heard you say a couple things here, and then I want to come back and ask you about the significance. One is about the one page. One was I’ve met your children and I think you did a fine job. They are fine human beings. Ed: My wife did. Hugh: That’s usually the case. Ed: Credit where credit is due, please. Hugh: We overcame our shortages. What is the significance of being able to have it on one page? Ed: There are a couple of points about that. One is it’s easy to digest and look at it. There are a lot of supporting documents sometimes. You can go to an electronic file on Mission, and there will be tons of documents and videos for people who want to understand and learn about those parts of it. We call it an agenda for leadership because it links everything together. The leaders of the organization now have the ability to go out and say, “Hey, here is our framework.” When most of our clients do quarterly reviews, including the nonprofits, they go in and do what we call the rearview mirror in the windshield. Rearview mirror is what has happened to us and why. Then you have the windshield, which is bigger. That is the proportionate amount of time you spend on that. The rearview mirror, what happened to you, you can’t do anything about it, but you can take a little bit of the lessons learned. Some organizations now aren’t even doing any rearview mirror. The Twitter CEO said a few years ago, “We don’t even look in the rearview mirror anymore. It’s all forward.” It’s a little bit of creating processes internally. What you do is you look in the rearview mirror, you look out your windshield, and you bring it back into that framework and see if you need to change strategies. Is it something we need to do now? Do we need to reallocate resources? That one-page framework becomes a document from which you can make decision and assess changes in your organizations and make things happen. Hugh: There is some synergy in what you said and what David Corbin said. Everybody brings a little bit of extra perspective to the topics that people think they know a lot about but we really don’t. I like that. Russell, do you have a comment or question brewing? He needs a hard question. Russell: You can’t stump a man with as much experience as he has. He has been at a few rodeos. A lot of what he is talking about are things I try to incorporate. Having everybody participate in it is important. That seems to be a little bit of a problem spot from what I am seeing. You get a few people. You might even have a power driver or some really strong personality in the group, and they just take over. People don’t have that buy-in if you don’t bring everybody together to formulate. I see that again and again. Ed: That doesn’t mean you have to drive people through lots of meetings. Especially in the corporate world, we have a lot of meetings. A client of mine refers to a staff meeting as a staff infection, which is what they affectionately call it. We could get into too many meetings. There are all sorts of tools and techniques to use to increase participation. It’s not top-down. It’s top-down, bottom’s up, continuous flow of thought and conversation about strategy. Strategy is not the annual perfunctory enema that we go through to come up with a budget, which is what most corporations do. It is a process that should be integrated in and be a part of your management systems. It is not an outlier that occurs once a year. Create a plan and a budget. Hugh loves this phrase, but most of those plans end up as credenzaware. They go through this process. Any of you who worked in corporate America know what I’m talking about. They go through this annual ballyhoo of our assumptions and our plan. They hit the first of the financial projections, and expenses are too high, incomes and revenues too low, so they go back and redo it and redo it and redo it. Finally in December, the managers say, “What the heck is the number you want me to get?” Each department comes up with a way to hit their numbers. Now what do they have? We have a set of numbers not driven by a strategy. That spills over into the nonprofit world, too. A lot of the nonprofit world makes a lot of assumptions about what they cannot do. I don’t know about you guys personally, but when I work with the nonprofit world, there is a lot of, “Well, we can’t do that.” I worked with the Housing Authority of the city of Tulsa. One of the board members called the director an excuse bag. We’re not funded. We can’t be funded. We don’t have enough funding. We can’t raise that kind of money. They’d get into these circles of spiral downs. I have done it and seen it done elsewhere to where we can bring a level of excitement. Some of these nonprofits, it might take two decades to get to a certain point, but think about in the context of a corporation like Apple. It took them years to get to where they are. Did they have a road map to end up at the iPhone and iPad and all the services they provide now? No. They evolved to that. Any leader of any organization is the leader of change. It’s not my job to come up with a five-year plan that we are going to stick to, live through, and file through. Go over the top with our energy levels and our dedication to that? No. It’s the doctrine that may drive you. The purposes, the value systems are really important. Values can be a competency incidentally as a side note. What’s important to me is the people are bought into that, including your constituents. Where a lot of organizations make the mistake is in raising money or attracting people to volunteer, they don’t get them excited about it. Most of those organizations are about as exciting as- They have been doing the same thing for 24 years. I worked with one organization that is probably in its 30th year of the same annual fundraiser. It raises about the same annual amount of money. They just switch faces once a while because donors pass away or get fatigued. Where is the excitement? They have to get connected with your purpose, your why. A lot of folks forget about that. We have to go out and be very creative about how we craft and raise those funds and the funding. Hugh: To your point, there are two videos that are helpful. One is “Begin with Why” the Simon Sinek Ted Talk. “The Way We Think of Charity is Dead Wrong” by Dan Pallotta. He talks about how we have this perception that we can’t do it, that we can’t spend money on salaries or marketing. There is this fictitious percentage of overhead. Is your overhead too high? If you have to spend money on marketing and on bodies so you can serve the constituency and actually get traction to the vision you have articulated, I think busting those old perceptions- That is what I am all about: helping people shift their paradigm. I want to talk about the military part of tactics and transformational leadership because there is a synergy that occurred to me we have never talked about. We will expose it out here in public. But when you talk about strategy, I have actually had nonprofit leaders say, “No, no. I don’t want to write anything down. It will limit my creativity,” to which I come back and say, “This is a solution map.” You’ve seen the SynerVision solution map, and you say that it’s strategy, Hugh. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? I want you to respond this. My answer is that the strategy, the system, is the container for creativity. You can now be creative because you know how to be creative. You know where you’re going, and you get the energy. Part of this is looking at your phases as you grow, so you are always keeping fresh. Talk about how that limits creativity and how you keep it fresh, your process of migrating it over time. Ed: The limitations on creativity is because we, corporations especially, everybody looks to the management for the answers, right? Creativity comes from the top, and that is totally 100% false. That is not generally where it’s going to come from. The creativity or the future of any organization comes from within the people themselves and an examination on a periodic basis of that external environment is changing, both for opportunity and threat. Did Corbin talk about SWOT analysis? Hugh: He did not. Ed: He and I both abhor them, not because it’s a bad tool, but the way we implement it. Everyone has the tendency to want to talk about what? Their strengths and their opportunities. They sweep the rest of the stuff, the weaknesses and the threats, under the carpet. If you have two of them, you have a SO-SO strategy because you are only focused on opportunities and strengths. You build an organization in response to people and constituents and how they are changing over time. One of my great frustrations when I run planning sessions is that I know I have young people in the room, and I know they are creative as hell and they have great ideas and thoughts. They don’t want to embarrass themselves and bring that out. The leadership doesn’t necessarily bring that out. In fact, in my early career, when I facilitated some of those meetings, it became a dialogue between myself and the CEO of the company. Boy was that meaningful. Not. We were limiting the creativity. We shift around, and we invite that creativity in. In fact, I encourage my CEOs of both nonprofit and for-profit organizations not to lay out scenarios. Let’s come up with the scenarios. Let’s put the antennae up. To me, one of the signs of great success in an organization is when I get compulsive innovation and collaboration. People talk around the water cooler, so to speak, although there aren’t many of those anymore, about what’s going on, what the future is, what the organization is. We do periodic methodologies where we check in with people and find out what is changing about our constituents. For example, if you want to get millennials involved with your organization today, they won’t touch you with a ten-foot pole unless you can identify your why, your mission, your purpose, and how they have a role in fulfilling that. It’s a whole different ball game. The limiting behaviors come because we have a tendency as leaders to bring people down the path we believe are important. That becomes trickier in the church world because they have doctrine. I also find doctrine personally as an excuse not to address what our members need. Hugh: Oh yeah. Ed: That’s a fact based upon my experience. What was the second half you wanted me to talk about? Hugh: Actually to that point, that is one of the things limiting the church. The Methodist church is losing 1,200 members a week. That is not unique among mainline dominations. We have not made it relevant. We don’t have a strategy. The Methodist church globally says that their mission is to make disciples. They need a strategist to help them develop a mission. What do you do after you develop disciples? We could talk about that all the time. Having someone who understands how strategy drives results. It’s not inside. It’s somebody external. The other part is your multi-phase growth plan and migrating it over time. Ed: What we do is bring in an organization into a three- or four-phase growth plan. That will cover a 5-7-year horizon. We don’t have much detail, nor are we doing resourcing on phase three or four. We are resourcing that next phase because we are then using our quarterly meetings and our interchanges about what is changing and the opportunity, the rearview mirror, and the windshield to determine how we are going to change it. We continually update the phase growth plan. Even in the financial arena, we do a rolling horizon set of financials. Every quarter, we update that plan literally. It takes less than half a day to do it. But what a great investment. You are always revising that plan. Once you start down that path or mode, and you have people engaged in doing that, it changes the whole dynamics of the organization and its growth. I have seen it. I have done it in nonprofits. My favorite thing, the Life Senior Services here in Tulsa where I reside, that is such a dynamic organization. My latest one down in Houston, Texas called Reasoning Minds is a nonprofit all about math education. The bottom line is they are sitting right now on $25 million a year of revenues and income streams because of how they have structured. We got them out of scarcity mode and into a phase growth plan. They know where they want to be five years from now, and they had to bite the bullet and do some things differently, coming out of our strategy, getting rid of some things that were skeletons that hung in a closet forever, like committees. They were wasting time because nothing was attached to a framework; it was just commotion to commotion. Don’t we all hate committees? When I was in the corporate world, they had committee meetings. You know how I treat committee meetings? I say, “Okay, you can form a committee as long as you write the epitaph of a committee.” What day are they going to die, and what is going to be the epitaph that says what is going to be accomplished? Hugh: What is your definition of a committee? It’s a place where good ideas… Ed: …Die. No, they have a tendency to become- We have this committee and that committee, but they are not attached to a strategy. They become functional because they are supposed to do things. I’m not saying you kill committees. I am just saying to change the dynamics of what they are attached to. What is their contribution in the overall strategic plan? In the objectives? How do they contribute to that? Get the committee to identify that, and then you migrate it over time. Hugh: I don’t know about this killing thing. I have spoken to a few people about team execution, and they got really excited because they thought they were going to get to shoot people. Ed: They though execution was a firing squad, huh? Hugh: I shouldn’t joke like that. This is a lot of really good tactical stuff. Let’s look at the grand strategy as a model of you have an objective, and then you define the tactics for that objective. Transformational leadership was birthed out of the military model, where you have to have a high-performing team that you cannot micro-manage when you are in combat. I have reframed that to be an orchestra model, and in a concert, you can’t be telling people what to do. You have to have rehearsed. It’s the integration of what’s written into performance. We have to make it come alive. The grand strategy comes out of this world. Speak a little bit about objectives. We see a lot of people doing this, that, and the other. We are talking to social entrepreneurs who might be running a church, charity, or business. Nonprofit executives are entrepreneurs because we are not doing the corporate thing. People ask me if all entrepreneurs suffer from insanity. I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.” Ed: Well said. Hugh: This military model of laying down this track, speak a little bit about the genesis of strategy and how that relates. Work in the leadership piece if you will. Ed: The whole thing, just to expound on what you are saying there. Strategy has its birth. When I became a student of strategy, there was a gentleman who wrote a book called Ongoing Strategist by Michael David. The book was published in the early ‘80s. He was the mentor who Arthur Young hired to supervise us seven young renegades on how to put this process together to sell it to our clients. He made us read Napoleon’s Maxim on War, Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War, whose basic premise was nobody understood the mission was; therefore, how could you ever win? It was pretty well borne out in the Vietnam War sadly. Some of the Middle East Wars had that flavor to them. It’s hard for them to react in the field to what they are supposed to be doing. If you go deep into the military axioms, one word you never hear said is goals. Whenever you hear me use the word objective, they are interchangeable. Goals have the tendency to be softer, fluffier, not with a sharp edge. Military people are like they are going to take Mt. Sarabachi by next Tuesday. We want that kind of sharpness in our objectives in our organization so that the departments can break it down into pieces. The other thing that you learn about military stuff when you dive deeper is mass scale and superiority of defense. Charities don’t have to work in these terms, but if you think about it, our nonprofits out there are competing for dollars, volunteers, and people. There is a thing about building a defensible position. The military world and its leadership, as you were talking about, if you get those troops out there, they are brought into the mission. They know we are going to win this war. The mission is to complete this war. They understand the mission. Their attachment to that becomes how they behave in the marketplaces, they execute your strategies and deploy your resources. It all ties back to that mission and that set of objectives. With real clarity of objectives. We let our business units and our subdivisions of our organization come back and say, “No, no, no, your long-term objectives are wrong. We need to change those.” Oftentimes they are not shooting high enough. A lot of the military stuff involves leadership, but it involves it to the point where people are doing what I talked about earlier, which was almost compulsive innovation and collaboration can make things occur. Work across departmental lines. It’s not selfish. That’s a lot of the problem with corporations. There are too many people competing with each other to rise to the top. Inside of those charity organizations, I think it is more critical maybe that we have that clarity of vision and mission and the attachment to purpose. The leadership has got to help embellish that and get people to buy into that, not just tell them what it is, but to buy into it. Why should they buy into it? How does it impact their daily work life when they are working with the organization? I don’t know if I have successfully done the consultant bit and avoided answering your question, or if I was going where you thought I was going to go with that. Hugh: Russell, why don’t you weigh in on that? Russell: I think you answered quite a bit there, why it’s important for nonprofit leaders to buy into these types of things. I think that thinking is a lot softer in these nonprofit circles. With today’s climate, we have to be firmer in our thinking because you are in business, you are providing value, and people need to see that value. We are in a place where there is a lot of noise out there, and people have a lot to choose from. If you don’t give people good, firm calls to action, they will look to somebody else to solve the problem. With some of the problems we are facing, you have to be tenacious to get the resources and make a real difference in people’s lives. The climate has changed in terms of what is out here, what is available. The government is looking to do less and less. They don’t necessarily do everything. Ed: Sometimes it appears that way. Sometimes it doesn’t. I don’t know. If you figure out what direction our government is currently heading in, please send me a memo. I need to understand. I’m confused. Russell: I was just thinking about that remark that you made about the consultant not answering your question thing. You are going to have to get a lot better in the doubletalk to run . Ed: I would never succeed as a politician. I have been told I am excessively blunt in declaring the truth. Guess you can’t do that as a politician. The importance of our charities, too, one comment came into my mind. We have a lot of people who are downtrodden and in poverty. We have a lot of bigotry in this country, let’s face it. We have a lot of issues that are social issues. When the people get engaged and involved, that is when they get solved. Government does not have a great track record of solving social issues. Nor did our forefathers ever frame it to do that. We need our charities to step up and succeed. The good part about it is there is an awful lot of money and wealth out there that want to get involved into charities. Businesses, for-profit corporations, will not survive another decade without a purpose-driven agenda. If they don’t stand for something for the greater good, their bottom line, their stock-holders, will not exist. The millennials don’t buy into that. My youngest son got invited to General Motors up in Michigan. I had happy feet because we had just dropped $140,000 on his education. I thought that he would get this great job. He came back and said, “I can’t work there. I don’t like the way they do what I’m asked to do. I don’t like anything about their values or systems. It’s all about the profits. Their processes are bad. I will fail if I try to do that.” I did the standard dad bit and said, “Just get it on your resume for a little while.” Coming back full circle to that, the public/private partnership is only going to get bigger. You see more and more organizations working with nonprofits and dedicating some resources. We have a lot of billionaires out there who are looking for something. I got involved in a deal on a big project, and if you took the five wealthiest families in the country, three of the five were involved in this project. They want to get their money back out in circulation for meaningful things. There is an opportunity to do that, but they just don’t want to hand their money to another charity that will fizzle and have a low-end impact. They want the exciting stuff. If you are a purpose-driven business—I am not talking about building a foundation and handing out money, I am talking about truly getting involved and adopting and working with these charities to really make things happen. That is where the leadership comes in. A quick side-note to Hugh in the leadership world: When we so succeeded with the Life Senior Services group and built such a powerful, responsive, well-thought-out organization where people fly in from all over the country to see, their question is, “How the hell did you guys do that?” We have around 36 board members. People will think that is a bit unwieldy. People are looking at it from the aspect of the board supervising and overseeing. That board is there to work with smaller groups and truly get involved in the execution of the strategy. We have attracted some business leaders out of the community, and a few of them provide money and help us raise additional money. I like a self-sustaining revenue model if I can get to it. The whole leadership thing is critically important, but you have to do it in a context of something people get excited about. Hugh: That brings us to the third question I posted earlier. The third one to ponder is about the board being engaged in the planning process. To your point, Ed, the integration of strategy and performance, you see people that write a strategy and it becomes credenzaware. It never gets integrated into the culture. We see people doing leadership and teams in the absence of a strategy. That is why I have created this nonconsulting position of the transformational leadership strategist. You can’t separate leadership and strategy in my world. Ed: I agree. Hugh: The third point to ponder was about the board’s engagement. We have spoken about it in this conversation. We are on the down-end of this hour. I want to hit some of the highlights about integrating the board into the process. In my experience of 31 years, the planners and the doers are the same. Otherwise, they will never be engaged. Talk about that a little bit. We are going to talk about how we predict the future as we wrap this up. Talk about how we engage the board and that process. Ed: The way we do that is because we use the focus framework process, which we developed in the hallowed halls of Ernst & Young years ago. I have tweaked it a lot since then and adapted it to the nonprofit world. We typically do is the board level talks of discussion, we set up with the boards that works really well, Hugh, and I think you do some of this also. One of the reasons we have 34 board members on Life Senior Services is we have mentoring and masterminds going on. I call it the M&Ms and the As. We build mentors. We use our board to mentor some of these people and help them build plans. We help them sit with the departmental people and build plans and facilitate. It makes a huge difference. The Masterminds is us masterminding the future. Everyone has inputs and portals to all of the things going on externally to our organization that might impact us in the future. We have masterminds going on, so people plug in and out of those. The leadership wants to monitor what is going on there. You know me, Hugh. I am an alliance partnership freak. I think one of the ways you get things done. One reason that Life Senior Services is successful and the Housing Authority is successful is because we built alliances with the people we needed to to execute our strategies. The leadership has got to in the planning process meet- There are two pieces to it. There is the overall purpose of the organization. What are our longer-term visions and objectives? There needs to be some clear definition there as to how you see that so we can at least get a scope of what we are trying to accomplish. The other part of that is the lower pieces of the organization flow that information back up, they react to that direction, some of them have been involved in mentoring and masterminding processes and have now created some departmental and divisional plans. Now we have a total integration between the board and the lower levels. That is not possible in every organization, but it works well for most. Did I successfully avoid your question? Hugh: There is not one right answer here. Ed: It does depend on the personality of the organization. One quick comment because I don’t want to miss it in our last few minutes is that people who volunteer and get involved in boards flat-out need to be excited about what it is you’re doing. Too many of these organizations don’t look to their future in how it’s really exciting. Back in the day when we were forming what was Tulsa Senior Services and now Life Senior Services formulated and moving forward, that organization was not exciting. It was mamby-pamby, oh they need a hotline, they need to find services, they need information, they need access to housing, caregivers. It is more of the perfunctory things these people need. We transformed the organization through the leadership. Man, when we start talking about the impact and the why of the organization, people bought into that. Then we transformed that out into the action. We did it pieces at a time. When we got that level of excitement up, then we attracted the funding. Hugh: That’s the key. How can you say, “Give us money” when we haven’t really done the preparation on the front end? Ed: They don’t know what your brand is. I don’t know if you got into talking about brand, but people don’t buy into a brand today unless they connect to it emotionally. Hugh: One of the things that came up with both David Dunworth and David Corbin was that everybody in the organization represents the brand. Part of the engagement of the board is to understand what the brand promise, brand identity, and the brand pieces really are. How do they fairly represent the organization? It’s not done that way in most of the charities that I’ve seen. I don’t know about you, but there is a real connection of who you are and who you represent. Look at dragging off an airplane and you have Ann Coulter out of her seat. Ann Coulter missed a great opportunity. Delta was able to make it about her rather than their poor customer service. We won’t mention the airline, sorry. You can take a pic. Those are brand slaughter. It does damage organizationally. All of this works together. It seems like it is an endless process with a lot of work. It is some heavy lifting and intense thinking. It is probably not as hard as most people make it. Ed: No, when you do it as an evolution, it’s like raising your children. You won’t open things up to them overnight and have them understand all of their possibilities. It is an evolution, and that is why we go through a phase growth plan and have them continually update that. It keeps the vision fresh. Back to the brand one more time. It’s the brand emotion. All brands emote. It took me years to convince software developers that their brands had emotion, but I finally won those battles in most of those organizations. Even in your charities and nonprofits, what is your brand? What is exciting about your brand? Why would I want to get attached? One thing about millennials is they coincidentally by 2020 will be 40% of the work force. By 2025, they will be north of 55 or 60%. We will be dealing with the people that are millennials. They have to understand the purpose, the emotion of your brand to get connected to it. I am not saying categorically, but maybe that is the problem with your churches. They are not connecting their brand emotionally. Hugh: It is. Millennials will not substitute anything for integrity and authenticity. The boomers have done some disingenuous things, and millennials don’t want anything to do with it. Actually, my article in my magazine Nonprofit Professional Performance 360 is about the similarities between the boomers and the millennials. We are going to wrap up here. Russ, I would like you to do a wrap-up on what you’ve heard. Russ has been taking notes on Ed Bogle sound bites. Then I will ask you, Ed, for your closing thoughts. Russell Dennis, what do you have to say on the end of this interview? Russell: This has all been good information. It’s very important to have a strategy; everything starts with strategy. You get nowhere if you don’t know what you’re doing. It’s critical to have younger people engaged. Some of these issues I have seen as a veteran, going to veteran events and organizations, there are no veterans under 25 at any of these events. In my mind, that’s a problem. We see this across the spectrum. Your work has to mean something, or it does mean something. It means something to people out there. It’s getting connected to the people that the work means something to that is the challenge. That takes work. There is a lot of work that has to be done internally, and you constantly have to have an improvement system and constantly measure and monitor what you’re doing. You have to be excited about it because if you’re not excited about it, who will write you a check? They will not be excited about your work if you are not excited about it either. It’s really important. When it comes to masterminds and mentoring, I like the idea of reverse mentoring: getting some of these millennials in to teach older guys like us about these processes and new things. There is an opportunity inside an organization to do reverse mentoring because we have to bridge that generation gap if you are going to be relevant down the road. Hugh: Once again, Russell one-ups me. Ed, take us out. What are some closing thoughts for people? Thank you, Russ. Ed: Strategy is the discipline. It’s part of your management process. It starts with your constituents and how you are going to serve them and how you are going to migrate it over time. Clearly understanding your brand and your emotion for them. That is where it all starts and stops. There was a brilliant guy, Theodore Leavitt, who was one of the founders of the real-marketing strategy world, who said a business, or even an organization for that matter, is all about finding and keeping a customer. You better take your constituents and understand them and your brand and what it represents to them. Hugh: Great words. Ed, thank you for sharing lots of really useful stuff tonight. Ed: Anybody that wants any further information on this, I am happy to share templates and stuff. Hugh: Thanks, Ed, for being with us. Ed: Thank you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Managing Your Brain for Fundraising Success: 80% of the challenge of fundraising is all in your mind Rhea Wong helps nonprofits raise more money. Though she has deep experience with institutional, corporate and event fund-raising, she is passionate about major individual donors and helping organizations to establish individual giving programs. She has raised millions of dollars in private philanthropy and is passionate about building the next generation of fundraising leaders. She has become a leader in the New York nonprofit community and is a frequent educational commentator in the media. She has been recognized with the SmartCEO Brava Award in 2015 and NY Nonprofit Media’s 40 under 40 in 2017. For more information about Rhea, please see her LinkedIn Profile here. Rhea lives in Brooklyn with her husband. When she is not raising money for causes she loves, she can be found hosting her podcast Nonprofit Lowdown, promoting her newest book Get that Money, Honey! or onstage as a newbie stand-up comedian in downtown Brooklyn. For more information, check out rheawong.com Find her on the socials at: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram More information at https://www.rheawong.com/# Get your free Money Quiz - https://go.rheawong.com/money-quiz  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How Nonprofit Organizations Can Grow Interview with Jennifer Katrulya Jennifer Katrulya is a Partner at Citrin Cooperman and is considered a pioneer of the outsourced/virtual CFO, advisory, and accounting services space. She has spent the last 20+ years helping clients create and execute the strategic and operational plans needed to scale quickly, secure funding, provide critical reporting and communications to company stakeholders, increase market share, and position for a successful exit. Jennifer helps companies leverage Citrin Cooperman’s rapidly growing BPO services group of exceptional controllers, bookkeepers, and technology specialists. The team at Citrin Cooperman takes on the day-to-day accounting functions for clients, allowing them to focus on growing the company. Jennifer has often been called a “power connector,” based on her proven track record of bringing the right people and companies together to help drive business growth and success, both in specific business deals and in the formation of winning strategic alliances. Her experience ranges from bringing early-stage companies and funding sources together, to connecting C-Level executives in Fortune 500 companies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Empower Us! From Crisis to Strategic Harmony with Dr. Ira Kaufman Ira Kaufman, Ph.D. is a Transformation Strategist, CEO, Social Entrepreneur, and Educator. Ira’s 45 years of management experience spans three worlds: business, nonprofit, and education. He challenges leaders, entrepreneurs, and students to reflect on their assumptions and resistances to discover new sustainable solutions and fuel purposeful action. His company, Entwine Digital, works with mid-size organizations and multinationals to design values-based Transformation strategies and train World-Class Leaders. His Transformation Academy provides a framework for managing continuous change and developing transformative business models. As a co-founder of the Global Transformation Corps, he redirects entrepreneurship to a stake- holder-centric model with sustainable impacts. Drawing upon the strengths of Rising Voices of the Future, he created the Catalyzer—a leader that transforms Love of Purpose into a Power that catalyzes the impact of organizations and businesses. At the University of Lynchburg College of Business, he designed and implemented the Transformative Leadership Lab and Transformative Leadership in the Digital Age curricula. He co-authored Digital Marketing with Purpose (now in 2nd edition). More about Dr. Kaufman's work at https://empowerus.world Dr. Kaufman's Transformation Declaration Transformation Declaration The New Normal has become politics without principles, business without morality, science without humanity, technology without ethics, and knowledge without character. We are surrounded with inequality and mistrust for our leaders and institutions. We have become tribal in our many battles for personal gain. Our governing values are compromised by money, corruption, and greed. If you are frustrated with the world as is, we challenge you to see the world as it could be and join us to transform it. WE PROPOSE: Strategic Harmony bridging the heart and the mind, values, and emerging technologies, generating the sustainable future that serves all. WE THINK US: Where ME replaces US Where TEST Values (Trust, Empathy, Sustainability, Transparency) are accountable and the gold standard Where Love augments purpose… Purpose empowers our future Where equity transcends ideas; it lives in policy While technology accelerates planetary responsibility, driving sustainable impact. WE THINK CATALYTIC: Where trust is the currency for transformation Where organizations thrive on happiness, authenticity, and innovation Where governance is built on humility and empathy Where economics reflects Value for all stakeholders Where Catalyzers realize The New Harmony. WE CALL TO ACTION: Rising Voices (Next Generation, Women, Marginalized) and human-centered leaders to radically collaborate to reinvent an inclusive and sustainable planet. WE EMPOWER US... on a journey to STRATEGIC HARMONY! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Can LinkedIn Do for Nonprofits? Interview with LinkedIn Specialist, Carol Kaemmerer LinkedIn is THE place where business professionals such as your prospective Board members, volunteers, and donors can be found -- so it behooves every nonprofit leader to have a solid presence there as well. Having a company page for the nonprofit is important too, because it gives your nonprofit added credibility and helps staff, Board members, and volunteers proudly list their affiliation with the organization. And then, there is the opportunity to share your nonprofit's photos and stories of beneficiaries online to share the message with people who don't spend their time on Facebook. It's free to use and is a powerful tool. Join this session to hear how you can leverage this powerful business tool for your nonprofit. Carol Kaemmerer is an internationally recognized personal branding expert, professional speaker, and author of the award-winning book LinkedIn for the Savvy Executive, now available in its Second Edition. Prior to her focus on LinkedIn and personal branding, she was a marketing communications consultant for 20 years with a Fortune 500 medical device company.  Since 2011, Carol has focused her communications expertise on helping C-suite executives and senior leaders use LinkedIn powerfully, creating positioning and messaging that reflects their business passion with authenticity. Pairing her flair for communicating with her deep knowledge of the ever-changing LinkedIn platform, she optimizes her clients’ ability to be found on this essential social medium to increase their visibility and influence, attract high-performing talent and steer their careers. As a professional member of the National Speakers Association, Certified Virtual Presenter, and Advisor to the C-Suite Network, Carol is a popular speaker and corporate trainer. More about Carol and her work, go to https://carolkaemmerer.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's So Scary About Asking For Money? Interview with Susan Kahan Fundraising is a necessary part of any nonprofit organization. There is an art and a science to it, and at the end of the day, it is about building relationships with your donors and giving them an opportunity to support the cause you all care so much about With more than a decade of working in the nonprofit sector, Susan Kahan is passionate about the power of philanthropy and helping organizations meet and exceed their goals to fulfill their missions. Based in Chicago, Susan has experience working with major gifts, mid-level donors, planned giving, capital campaigns, and creating and executing fundraising strategies and events. Beyond Chicago, Susan has worked across the Midwest, New England, and the Mid-Atlantic, and she brings her knowledge and expertise from these special communities to each of her current projects and clients. A relationship builder and people connector, Susan was also involved in grassroots political mobilizations and encouraging citizens to get involved in the political process with their voice and their financial support. Prior to founding Sapphire Fundraising Specialists, Susan held fundraising and management roles at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Susan graduated from the George Washington University in Washington, DC with a major in Communication and a double minor in Political Science and Business Administration. More information at https://www.sapphirefundraisingspecialists.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There’s Never Been A Time Like This Interview with B1G1 Founder, Paul Dunn Paul Dunn is a 4-time TEDx speaker and is a Senior Fellow in one of the World’s Leading Think Tanks and consults to and mentors leading-edge businesses around the world. He was honored as a Social Innovation Fellow in his new home of Singapore; something he shares with film-star and philanthropist Jet Li and Walmart Chairman, Rob Walton. He was one of the first 10 people in Hewlett Packard in Australia. He then created one of Australia’s first computer companies and then The Results Corporation where he helped develop and grow 23,000 small and medium scale business enterprises. His programs are used by an estimated 226,000 companies around the world and he continues to push the boundaries. He featured in Forbes Magazine alongside Sir Richard Branson in a global piece on ‘disrupters’ in business. He is the co-founder of Accountants for Good and B1G1: Business for Good, the Global Giving Initiative that’s already enabled businesses to create over 220 Million giving impacts globally. For more information go to https://www.b1g1.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

5 Leadership Strategies to Maximize Personality for Performance: Developing the Leaders Around You Interview with Pat Tamakloe Leaders are uniquely qualified by their inherent ability to "see" things that most or the typical eye may not pick up on. With that comes their personalities and how that fits into the environment and people they lead. Whether this is a church setting between pastors, priests, or deacons with their parishioners, a board of directors among their members, or a facility that provides services for the underprivileged. In all these cases, one's personality or behavior can be overbearing, overly passive, or dismissive when interacting with others. Therefore, understanding how one's own personality or tendencies affect others and how to employ those behavioral tendencies to be effective in leadership is imperative. Knowing strategies that enhance performance, by knowing what each leader's behavioral profile is, can pay dividends in knowing how effective or how well, one is leading to be impactful in all outcomes. Pat A. Tamakloe, Ph.D. (“Dr. PAT”) is the President/Chief Executive Officer of GLOBAL REACH Leadership Institute, a Leadership Strategy Consulting and Training firm, and the founder of Tamakloe & Co, LLC, a leadership literature enterprise based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. As an organizational leadership expert, he has worked with a myriad of leaders and corporate executives, from startups and small businesses to a franchise organization in the United States (US) and abroad. He is a leadership strategy consultant, certified speaker, executive coach, team- trainer, author, and C-Suite Network Advisor. He also co-pastors in the Norfolk, Virginia congregation of an International Church, and he is on the adjunct faculty of a local university. His work has included speaking internationally to non-profit/for-profit organizations, international radio shows, international schools, as well as business executive teams nationally and abroad. Dr. PAT’s 23-year US naval service before he retired from the enlisted to officer ranks included leading in various US and overseas capacities. His vast executive acumen and broad expertise in multi-national strategic, tactical, and leadership training for organizational leadership and personal growth make him an emerging leadership authority and change agent on the global leadership front. His passion for mentorship and leadership development across all leadership continuums has earned him influential positions on various local and international Boards of Directors. He currently lives in Virginia Beach, VA, with his family. For more information, go to https://globalreachleaders.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Unlock Your Potential, Achieve Greatness and Make An Impact Affordably It is so important to build proper business relationships no matter how small or how large your organisation is. Your potential biggest client, sponsor, or donation for you and your organization is out there. Do not miss the opportunity to meet those connections at networking events or Masterclass Sessions Steve Gaston says, "You have to learn more to Earn more, and every part of the group of businesses that I own or involved in has that purpose at its core. We believe that we value our client's business as much as our own and therefore feel we try to be as competitive in all the services we provide. My Passion is to continually grow and add products and services that can make a difference worldwide by Launching UK & overseas projects that help business owners build better relationships, develop themselves as business owners, and make more profit." More Information at https://themasterclasssessions.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn to love the Donor.... they will love your cause with their wallet Sending love out daily without regard of it coming back will build a fountain of giving that will last beyond your life. Paul Zolman The author of love is God. In His wisdom, He placed us in various circumstances that require us to find our way back to His pure love. So, what qualifies Paul Zolman to speak about love? His childhood experience of the opposite of love. From that austere beginning, and the distaste it formed inside him, he searched for and eventually created a method that transformed his life from anger to loving everyone. Growing up in a family of abuse, physical touch became his preferred love style, only because of the regularity. He could almost count on it. It was consistent. He came to think that was the way to express love. But deep inside, he knew that was a twisted belief. He wanted a better life for himself, so he created a paradigm shift that works. In this book, you’ll find what helped Paul Zolman move from a childhood boot camp of abuse to being a person who loves everyone and can find good about anyone in any circumstance. This is truly the role of love. https://www.roleoflove.com    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Nonprofit is a Businesswith Alan Harrison [caption id="attachment_1275" align="alignleft" width="200"]     Alan Harrison, CDCF[/caption] Alan Harrisonis a nonprofit executive with over 25 years of for-profit and nonprofit experience in a diverse set of roles. Born in Pennsylvania, Harrison holds a B.S. degree in Biology from Geneva College and an M.S. degree in Biology (specializing in Ecology) from Lehigh University. There is a pervading view that nonprofits are somehow less serious than for-profits. I have run across this several times in many situations. Some people think that somehow the money just rolls in and work is a big party every day. There is also a view that everyone works for a pittance and you couldn’t really support yourself or a family working for a nonprofit. These views could not be further from the truth. After many years of experience in nonprofit I have learned that a nonprofit is a business, just a different kind of business. For-profit businesses make goods or services in pursuit of money for shareholders or owners. This is the “profit” piece. Nonprofit businesses also make goods or services. The difference is that the nonprofit business is not in it to make money for an owner or shareholder, they are there to make good of some sort for a group of people that will benefit from the good or service. In simplified terms I like to think of nonprofits as business that make good not money. Nonprofits businesses are not a party. Everyone who works at a nonprofit goes to work every day and works just like anyone else. If you do your job you keep it and succeed, if you don’t do it you get disciplined and eventually lose it. Nonprofit businesses have all the same functions as for-profit businesses. There are finance, HR and IT people. Someone cleans the offices and takes out the trash. Any function you can associate with a for-profit business is there with a nonprofit business. It may look a little different, but it is there. The fundraisers are analogous to the sales people in a for-profit business. Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. It’s kind of an interesting day here in central western Virginia. We’re expecting some snow tonight and a storm on the weekend. How is it in the Rocky Mountain high of Colorado? Russell Dennis: Well, it’s actually sunny today. It’s a bit chilly, but it’s very sunny. We’re just going through a typical Colorado winter. I don’t worry about it. If I don’t like it, it will be different in five or ten minutes. Hugh: It may make people feel cool because they might be listening to this podcast in the heat of summer. Think about how cool it is. I got a little hair standing up here. Russell, you don’t have that problem. You can’t see him on the podcast, but he’s a smart man – he doesn’t waste any energy growing hair. Russell: I haven’t had a bad hair day in a long time. Hugh: I’m thinking you haven’t had a bad day. It’s always a good day with Russell David Dennis. We have a person who is in the space of philosophy and practice that we are, Russell. It’s Alan Harrison. We met on LinkedIn and had some conversations. He said he’d like to share his wisdom with nonprofit leaders. Alan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Alan Harrison: Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russell for having me here. I’m very excited to be here and looking forward to today. Hugh: Tell people a little bit about who Alan Harrison is. Alan: I’ve been in the nonprofit space for over 15 years now. Before that, I was in the for-profit space for almost that long. I spent a lot of time in the water treatment industry. I have a Masters degree in biology. Toward the end of that part of my career, I wanted to make a change and moved into the nonprofit space. I moved from technology into operations. Most of my nonprofit career has been spent in administration, HR. I have been vice president of administration. I have been CEO of a small nonprofit, running things from an administrative and financial standpoint as opposed to technology. That was a big change for me, but I have never looked back. I enjoy it and really love the nonprofit space. Hugh: We are talking about good sound business principles today. You’ve come from the business world. We use the funny terms “for-profit” and “nonprofit.” Right there is where we set up a false premise with the word “nonprofit.” We have had guests who talk about it being a social benefit or a tax-exempt charity. One guest gave us the title “for-purpose” organization. You and I spoke a little bit last week. You’re very passionate about the principles that you teach and bring to this tax-exempt world of charities that are really cause-based. We’re working to improve people’s lives. The bottom line is ROL, Return on Life, the impact that we have in people’s lives. Let’s start from why do you think it’s important that these kinds of organizations, which we will use the word “nonprofit” because that is the sector we’re talking to—we’re talking to clergy, leaders of associations that are tax-exempt like a chamber of commerce, or cause-based community nonprofits, all over. Why is it important for us as leaders in this sector to understand business principles? Alan: The first point that I would make is that a nonprofit is a business. I like the term “not for profit” because we can make a profit. There is nothing wrong with making money. Certainly we raise money. Nonprofits offer goods and services, and they charge for those things. There is nothing wrong with that. The difference is that they take that profit not to make money; they take that profit to make good. There is a principle they are trying to advance, whether that is feeding people who are hungry, trying to make people healthy, global health, or just the health clinic in your local community. It doesn’t matter. They are taking that money, whether it’s a profit or a donation, and using it to make good in that community. The reason we need to keep business principles in mind is because it is a business. All the things that a business does, a nonprofit does. We have finance people, and administrators. We sign contracts. We have buildings we need to upkeep. We have employees. We have HR departments. Everything that a business does, a nonprofit has to do as well. You might say they don’t have sales, but they really do. Fundraisers are analogous to sales. Every function you find in a business or a nonprofit you would find in the opposite organization. Hugh: We set ourselves up for failure when we minimize those things you just talked about. We expect it’s going to happen. Even at the detriment, we say we can’t make a profit, or we can’t charge too much money for that, or we have to dumb down. What are some of the scripts people tell themselves and others that make some of those things you talked about difficult? Alan: First off, when you talk to people about a nonprofit, they think somehow the money just comes. One of the biggest errors I see people make in politics and the nonprofit world is they assume that if they do good or the right thing, somebody will support that. That’s not the case anymore. There was a time a lot of years ago where you could go to a donor and say, “Hey, I’m doing really great work. You need to support what I’m doing.” The donor would say, “You are doing good work. I do want to support what you’re doing.” It’s not that way anymore. We’re well past that. We are in a time where it’s an exchange of value. Just like if I buy a pair of pants from a clothier near me, I want to give him money. That is the value he gets; the value I get is a nice pair of pants. It’s no different for a nonprofit. If I am going to a donor, I need to explain to them the value proposition: what they are getting for the dollars they are giving to me. It may be marketing. It may be publicity. It may be something that encourages their employees because employees are interested in social enterprises and organizations that make a difference. Whatever that value proposition is, I need to go to my donors with. A lot of people don’t realize that. They think if they are doing a good thing, they will give me money. The great nonprofits, the ones that are really successful, understand that. Hugh: Those in business build a strategy. At least, some of them do. At SynerVision, we consider the strategy to be central. As you know, I’m a musical conductor. If we don’t have a musical score, nobody knows what to play. We go into our space with all our volunteers and board members and staff and say, “Go,” and they don’t know where to go. There is a lack of understanding where they can be engaged and what they are supposed to do. Part of that is understanding what our brand is and what our unique value proposition is. You just spoke about value propositions when you are making a presentation. I don’t think we’re very good at either defining it or expressing it. What do you say about how we get there? Alan: You mentioned brand, which is important for a nonprofit. As a nonprofit, you have your reputation and your brand. People need to be crystal clear on what that brand is. When you think of a good nonprofit, the Nature Conservancys, and the CAREs, and the American Cancer Society, people know what those organizations are about. They know exactly what the American Cancer Society is. They know exactly what CARE does. They understand that brand identity. Those organizations understand their brand identity is what is out there. It’s no different than Google. People know Google’s brand identity and Microsoft’s brand identity. It’s the same kind of an idea. It needs to be marketed the same way as those organizations would. One thing I always recommend to a nonprofit is get your values. Know what your values are. Understand what they are. Put them first and foremost on your webpage. If you go to the really successful organizations, one of the first things you will see on their webpages is what their values are. Lead with those values. Lead with that brand. Lead with that understanding. That is what a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t have a 30-second elevator speech where they can distill their brand down into a few short sentences that make people go, “Oh, I’ll get that.” That will allow you to understand whether you can connect with that person. Some people won’t be interested in what your mission is, and that’s fine. But it will allow you to connect with those who are interested in your mission and find out who those people are pretty quickly into the conversation. You don’t want to spend six months or a year cultivating a donor who really isn’t interested in your mission. You want someone who will be clued into what you’re doing. Hugh: Russell, that’s one of the messages you bring up very often with board members and donors. Find out what they’re interested in. Do you want to chime in and come up with another question for him? Russell: Everyone has a different motivation. When you’re talking about value, which is a word that is rarely used in nonprofit circles, the value is in the mind of the supporter. You’re going to be talking to multiple audiences. You have a message for volunteers. You have a message for donors. You have a message for people in the community. Really what we’re talking about is profit. With nonprofits, there is a profit. There is a social profit. There is a monetary profit. The discussion that Alan started with values, that is very important because when you look at where it is that you see yourself fitting, where you want people to go as a result of being exposed to your services and products, what is it that you ultimately want them to have? What is the experience they’re going to get? You almost have to set the table for your own measures in a sense by explaining where people start and where they end up. That is something that you measure. Everything doesn’t fit in a pivot table. There is a place for where Berny calls the dolphin story and the results. People want results. Donors are very sophisticated now. Are you delivering results? What do those results look like? As a business, it’s really important to run a business like a business. It’s about good stewardship. Alan is kind of like me. You had a different career, and then you transitioned into this career. What would you say was the biggest surprise when you got when you moved out of your old career into the nonprofit space? What was the one thing that was the biggest shock to you? Alan: I think for me, when I moved from the for-profit to the nonprofit world, I remember I was moving into the Nature Conservancy. Someone there called my old boss and said, “Can Alan do this job?” He said, “Of course he can. It’s an NGO.” That’s what surprised me. I have never been anywhere where people work harder or where people were more talented than the nonprofits I work in. People have this view that it’s kind of a party or money somehow comes rolling in or we don’t really work; we just lay around all day. That to me was the biggest surprise. When I went to the CDC Foundation, it was during the ebola crisis in Africa. I have never seen people more dedicated, work harder, more talented, than anywhere I have been in my life. This idea that people aren’t working or people don’t work hard really was a surprise to me. I was taken aback. I have become a nonprofit evangelist when I talk to people. We have analogous to sales. We have finance. We have HR. We have IT. Every function you can think of, people are working hard. You have to do your job just like anywhere else. If you don’t do your job, you lose your job. There is this view that somehow it’s not serious. Hugh: What Russell and I do as a resource for leadership and strategy and performance, it’s harder in this sector. I served inside the church for 40 years. There is a really good case of dumbing down and not having the standards you’re talking about. It’s the same as any other generic nonprofit, except churches think people will walk in the door. We have lost in the mainline denominations our relevance. I still believe in it. I’m a critic of it to help it. But it’s the mindset that we develop that is a scarcity mindset. With scarcity thinking, the mindset ought to be abundance. God has given you abundance, but you have to be a good steward of it. The piece that Russell brought in, one of our colleagues, Berny Dohrmann, runs a business growth conference for 25 years. It attracts entrepreneurs. They come in from the business side and the nonprofit side. There are characteristics that are the same. The dolphin thing he was referring to is “Here is my sweet little dolphin,” but there is no substance to your ask. You just are petting your dolphin, and you want everyone else to pet it. The point you’re making is there is a quantifiable value you bring. Instead of talking about ROI, we talk about ROl, Return on Impact. It’s really bottom line impact. We take your values. We have to be clear on what we value. As we do strategy, we take core values to another level. People write these words that they don’t understand. We develop guiding principles. How do you make decisions based on these concepts? Being a principle-based organization, what we’re now teaching nonprofits is how to develop your strategy and develop the principles. You will take that strategy and integrate it into performance, which is as you probably have experienced is a big gap. We have a lot of well-intended, passionate, dedicated people who are low on the performance scale. Really, these people want to do more. In many circumstances, they work harder here than they do in their day jobs. Do you want to come back at us with some other thoughts? Alan: I would agree that people work hard in nonprofits. Some of the people I have talked to who transitioned from for-profits to nonprofits are saying they work harder now than they ever did in the for-profit world. You have to wear a lot of hats. Money is scarce. There is a lot of challenges. Another challenge for nonprofits you touched on is the impact and measuring the impact. Donors want to hear about impact. That can be a challenge for nonprofit. In a for-profit, you can look at your balance sheet and your P&L sheet for the quarter. You can say you sold 27,000 widgets. I made this kind of gross margin and net profit. It’s fairly simple. But for a nonprofit, if you are a single cause nonprofit, you feed hungry families for example, or you feed homeless people, you have one number to work with. But a lot of nonprofits do multiple things. It becomes extremely challenging to measure impact. I have been in nonprofits that had up to 80 or 100 active projects. How do you measure impact across 100 active projects? That becomes difficult. You start to focus on ones that are most important or most impactful. There is no question that you don’t just have a number. We did 27% this year. Our gross margin is 12%. That is not how a nonprofit works. When you look at your impact, you have to break it down by project, by population you serve, by the areas you serve. It’s a huge challenge for a nonprofit. Russell: I think the place people have to begin at is- I was looking at a book, The Social Profit Handbook by David Grant. A lot of times, when we think of having programs evaluated or people coming in and assessing, we look at it like other people assessing us. The model that we teach at SynerVision and where people bring to is look at how can we do what we’re doing better once we decide what it is that we’re doing. If we don’t make a decision or try to measure what we’re doing, other people will do that for us. The purpose of evaluation is not to get a grade to give a better check. The purpose of evaluating and benchmarking is to get better at what you’re doing, deliver more impact, and find new ways to collect that information so people can understand that value. It’s having the people you’re working with talk about how being affiliated with your organization has made a difference. There is a lot that goes into storytelling. It captures that information that won’t fit neatly on the pivot table that helps us connect with people emotionally that helps define some of that impact. That ROI is return on impact, or return on influence, these types of things. The thought pattern that people have around nonprofits really needs to change. You addressed that very well, Alan: how people seem to think it’s quick and easy. There are a lot of people who are reluctant to write a check because they say, “I’m not interested in paying your rent. I want to make sure every dollar I give you goes into the program.” If you don’t have an infrastructure to deliver it, you don’t have a program. How do we create a shift in that focus with people? What are some things you’ve done to help shift that thinking around? Alan: I think your point about overhead is important. No one goes to Google and says, “You shouldn’t have a finance department. Those should be all volunteers. You shouldn’t have an IT department. Those all should be volunteers.” You know what you get with volunteers. You have very dedicated people who have little time, and they can’t necessarily put in the time you need them to put in. Just like any other business, you have to pay for what you need. Imagine a large nonprofit depending on a volunteer CFO. It will be a mess. Or a volunteer IT department. It will be a mess. You have to have a well-oiled, well-run organization. You’re competing in the same talent pool. There is a subset of people who want to be in nonprofit. They love the nonprofit, they love the mission, and I honestly believe the employees who stick around in nonprofits are the ones who love the mission. You’re still competing for the same talent pool. If I need to hire a CFO, that CFO could go to another organization or for-profit. The idea that we shouldn’t be paying for overhead, or whatever that number is, doesn’t make a lot of sense. The finances need to be transparent. They need to be reasonable. You shouldn’t be spending 90% on overhead obviously. But you have to have enough of a spending to hire people who have families and car payments and house payments and those kinds of things. I think we need to have honest conversations with the foundations, the corporations, and the other donors who seem to have this mindset that this should all be for free. It’s not. They want a good product. They want excellent services to the population that we serve, or the cause that we serve, so they have to understand that comes with a cost. You have to have good people to have a good product. You have to have good people to offer a good service. You have to pay those people so they can live; they have to send their kids to school and pay their car payments. Russell: The flip side of that is there are some nonprofits who think, “Hey, we’re doing worthy work. Why aren’t people coming? Why won’t they write us a check?” There is that other piece where from the side of the nonprofit, they don’t always understand what people are looking for, what motivates them to support a cause. How do you have that conversation with nonprofit leaders to get them to understand the sort of things that will motivate people to lend that support? Alan: You touched on it when you talked about value. It’s an exchange of value. There is some value that that donor has to be getting from the nonprofit, whether it’s a demonstration to their employee base that they are making a difference in the world and they are a socially conscious organization, whether it’s a marketing campaign that they can build around the work they’re doing with an organization, whether it’s something that makes them feel good. It doesn’t matter what that value is. What you have to do as a nonprofit is understand what value they’re interested in and determine if you can supply that value. If you can’t supply that value a particular donor is looking for, stop talking to that donor. You’re wasting your time, and you’re wasting their time. Find a different donor that would be interested in the value you offer. If I sell suits and somebody is not looking for a suit, I probably don’t need to talk to that person, and they probably don’t need to talk to me. It’s the same thing. Russell: Is there a point where you say a lot of nonprofit leaders hanging on beyond where they probably should simply say ‘Next”? Is it a common problem for nonprofit leaders to continue to try to implement strategies to attract donors that they might just not be the right fit for? Alan: I think it’s harder for a nonprofit leader to say that. As nonprofit leaders, we care so much about what we do. We care so much about our cause that it’s hard to imagine someone else wouldn’t care about that. It’s hard to see maybe that someone doesn’t care about that. We’ll keep pushing a value that maybe that other person isn’t interested in. But there is somebody who is interested. Your time is better spent finding that person who is interested. Hugh: It’s a good match. People have a philanthropic side. They want to volunteer. But really, they don’t want to volunteer for everything. We sometimes talk people into volunteering when they really don’t want to. Then they don’t perform. We blame them when it’s really our fault. We have a vision of what they ought to be interested in instead of having a conversation. That also goes with putting people on boards and putting them in slots, like a treasurer, secretary, communications. We put people in the wrong place. Going back to what you were saying about the misconceptions, I am not sure if you have seen the TED talk by Dan Pallotta, “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.” Have you seen that video? Alan: I haven’t. Hugh: Look it up. It’s the stuff you guys were talking about. We think we can’t spend money on marketing. We think we can’t take risks. We lose a few hundred dollars, and people will go insane. Disney has a $200 million flop on a movie or more than that today; that’s just the cost of doing business. The other one is this overhead thing. It’s a fallacy. You’re paying people. We can’t pay decent salaries. You’re going to give up this big corporate job and work for less money, and we expect you to do the job of three people for a third of the pay. There are some really unreasonable expectations we have. Those are the biggest myths, which are totally wrong in my book. What do you think? Alan: I agree. I have seen people on boards that clearly weren’t interested. They don’t do anything. Six months later, they resign. It doesn’t make sense. You have to understand what drives that person. You have to take the time. The myth that you can’t spend money or take risks, one of my favorite quotes is from Samuel Johnson, who was one of the Founding Fathers of the country. He said, “If all danger must be removed, then nothing will ever be accomplished.” The idea is that if you reduce the risk to zero, you won’t accomplish anything. That is an absolute fallacy that we can’t have any risk in a nonprofit organization. All risks have to be considered. They have to be logical. You have to have reasons behind them. When things fail, you have to learn from them. I had a boss years ago who said, “Fail faster.” I thought that was crazy until I realized what he was saying was there is going to be failures in life. Accept them when you get to them, move past them, and get on to something else. Things are going to fail. You will try a program that won’t work. You will try to serve a new population that doesn’t work. You have to accept that risk you took in trying to serve that new population isn’t working and get on to something where you really can have an impact. Hugh: Underneath of what you were talking about, this conversation of embracing good, sound operational principles, they are the same for a for-profit or a not-for-profit organization. But there are some subtle differences that actually we have a lot more regulations in the nonprofit arena. We have to be careful with how money is used. Especially if there is designated gifts. If people give us money for a certain thing. There is a public persona. You mentioned American Cancer Society, which is a curious organization to me. We are talking about overhead. But they raise tons of money. Only 12% goes to research. That is a classic example of exorbitant salaries and overbenefiting the employees. Every little goes to the end result. However, people look past that somehow and there is a lot of money donated to that organization. There is a persona, a marketing piece that is evidently very strong. But on the other side, we feel defeated because other organizations are taking all the money. Last time I checked, money is a renewable resource. Part of our thinking, it’s fundamentally, where I’m headed with this, sorry to ramble, underneath this is leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. The organization is the reflection of the leader. There are organizations that do a very good job like American Cancer Society of presenting themselves in marketing, but there are other organizations who probably have 10% overhead and make a lot of impact, but they are vastly compromised by their lack of effective board and lack of revenue. What do you think of leadership as being an anchor for what we’re talking about? Alan: There is no question that you need a leader who understands that all of these things are important. If you have a leader in a nonprofit who only focuses on providing the service or whatever good the nonprofit is doing and doesn’t get out there and talk about the organization and market the organization, recognize how important branding and marketing is, you are not going to go very far. Another item that you touched on is accountability. It’s holding people accountable. A lot of people in nonprofits think we need to be nice. I would argue that we do need to be nice and treat people with dignity. But treating people with dignity and being nice to them does not mean not holding them accountable. Accountability is a big piece in nonprofits that can be a challenge because everybody wants to be nice. Sometimes you have to say this person isn’t working out, this project isn’t working out, this department isn’t working out, and make a change. You can do that in a kind way. You can do that in a way that preserves people’s dignity. But if you just let it slide, like I have seen happen, then you get mediocrity. Every organization is as strong as its weakest link. Every chain is as strong as its weakest link. It breathes down the whole organization. I would argue that leaders need to be focused on that accountability that sometimes is an issue in the nonprofit world. Hugh: We cause some of those problems. We put the wrong person in the wrong place, and then we are nice to them. They’re trying. They are bringing down your culture. They are representing your brand in a negative way. It’s damage control at that point. Alan: The brand has to come first. The mission has to come first. Everything that you do in the nonprofit has to be focused toward advancing the mission and advancing the brand. You always as a leader need to be asking yourself the question: Does this advance the mission in the best way? Does this advance the brand in the best way? I think a good leader can recognize, this isn’t working. We need to make a change. We brought this person on our board who isn’t interested. I need to have a conversation with that person. It takes some assertiveness and guts, but the leader has to be willing to make those kinds of changes and have those kinds of conversations in an organization. For some reason, they are more timid in nonprofit organizations than people are typically in for-profit organizations because it’s perceived as not being nice. Hugh: It’s being honest though. We want to be honest with people. Alan: That’s right. Hugh: Russell, it’s back to you. Russell: I think that honesty goes a long way, but honesty without compassion is brutality. It’s all in how you go about putting things out there. As we look at this environment today, there is the realization that business principles are so critical to being effective stewards of things that are entrusted to nonprofits. I think there is a whole lot of confusion, but there are still some very subtle and distinct differences between the nonprofit or social profit and the purely profit entity. What do you see as the most important distinctions to make between the for-profit and the social profit entity? Alan: It’s obvious that in the for-profit world, you are in it for the profit. You are trying to enrich shareholders. You are trying to enrich management. You are trying to have quarterly profits that increase every quarter. Anybody in the for-profit world is familiar with that. I have been there. We can’t forget what our mission is in a nonprofit. That ‘s the difference. You talked about having compassion. The nonprofit world is about manifesting that compassion in the larger world. That is really what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to take that compassion we have and manifest it in the larger world. I would argue that while we can learn from the for-profit, the for-profit can also learn from us. That compassion for employees, for the larger world, that goes a long way. I always use the word “dignity.” I think we need to treat people in a way that preserves their dignity, in a way that doesn’t threaten their dignity as a person. I think that the for-profit world would learn from a lot in some places. I would never say that all for-profits don’t treat people with dignity. But it’s much more common in that world. I think they would learn a lot from what nonprofits do in terms of treating people with compassion and dignity. Russell: Where do you think that you see more of a collaborative type of leadership? Another question I would ask is do you see some pathways to create more collaboration in both worlds? We are in a society today where people are really getting locked into their differences. I think we are suffering from it. How can collaboration as a way of life in both types of entities help us with our larger conversations with how we approach each other as people? Alan: I think nonprofits and for-profits should be collaborating with each other. One thing I like about the millennial generation is they really want to make a difference in the world. They have a lot of passion for recognizing what is wrong with the world, and wanting to make a difference. That becomes important just to have a work force in the for-profit world. As nonprofits, we can bring them opportunities to engage their employees in causes that are important to them, whether that is environmental things, whether it’s feeding the homeless, those sorts of things. We can give them direct volunteer opportunities. UPS has a goal to have 20 million hours of nonprofit volunteer time with their employees. Nonprofits need to step up and talk to all the organizations out there about the kind of opportunities we can offer them to engage their employees. In those kinds of volunteer efforts. Those things go a long way for both organizations. The nonprofit gets exposure and marketing. People come away saying, “Wow, this is great. I got to do this or do that.” The for-profit gets an engaged work force that says, “I work for a great company. They let me take a day off and go plant trees for this tree planting organization, or go feed people in the soup kitchen that didn’t have anything to eat that day.” I think those kinds of collaborations, which happen but probably don’t happen nearly as much as they should. Russell: If you get somebody that comes out of university, it was a little bit different when the three of us attended, but now you are looking at a situation where somebody comes out, particularly if they have done any graduate work, they have this massive debt that they have to deal with. You have career opportunities and private enterprise that are driven by stock prices. How would you make a case to get somebody who is very talented to choose a career in the social profit field knowing they are leaving all of these other things on the table, and they have this debt? How do you make a case that it’s really worthwhile to go into the nonprofit sector? Hugh: One thing I noticed with people who are coming out of university now is they don’t expect to work for the same company for 25 or 30 or 40 years and retire from that company. A lot of people in the millennial generation go into a job knowing I want to be here for two or three years. I want this to be a resume-builder. I want this to be a skill-builder. I want this to be an opportunity. Then I am going off to the next thing. I think as nonprofits, we have to accept that, not try to change it, not try to talk people into working somewhere for 30 years, but go into talking to them about what this opportunity is. This is an opportunity to build your resume, this is an opportunity to wear a lot of hats and gain a bunch of skills, this is an opportunity to be exposed to donors, some of whom are people you may want to work for someday. If we go into it with the idea that we understand what these people want, we understand what this particular market or employee wants, and offer them that, then you’re going to get more people saying, “I could go there for three years. That would be awesome to work with these big companies who are their donors and have volunteers. Then I can go onto the next thing.” I think accepting that approach of how they want to live their lives, they will be more interested in talking to us. Hugh: There is a lot of comments in this interview about money. I find the common perception is nonprofit leaders say, “If we just had the money, we could do more.” I come back with, “Can we see your strategy?” “I don’t have one.” “How do you define the board’s engagement on a scale of 1-10?” I get a 4.5. That’s the reason you don’t have money. If you had money, you probably wouldn’t get the results you want. Do you experience that as a definition of what is missing? Do you have a different take on what they need to do to earn it or attract it? Alan: I certainly agree with you that money is not the be all end all. An organization needs to be in a position to effectively use any money they get. If you have a board that is engaged at a 4, you’re right. I serve on a board, and it’s an extremely engaged board. The organization is doing very well financially. That is because the board is engaged, and the organization recognizes they need to do marketing and branding, and they need to measure impact, and they need to do all of the things that are important. It comes back to those principles. You have to be willing to accept things just won’t come rolling in. You will have to work for it. You will have to understand your audience. Pick the right audience. Execute. And demonstrate you have executed. It’s no different than a for-profit business in that way. There are a lot of differences about what we do and what we’re trying to accomplish. In terms of execution, there are a lot of similarities there. Hugh: Sometimes people get excited when I talk about team execution. They think they are going to shoot people. Alan: Let’s hope not. That’s not a good nonprofit. Hugh: We do it to ourselves. We bring in people because we have a perception they ought to be doing something rather than what Russell’s vestige is, is find out what they are interested in first. I talked about ROL, return on life. We have a mission. That is our intellectual property. We’re doing this. This is the value we bring. We want to get the money. We have this middle capital. This value capital. We want money capital, financial capital. But in the middle is relationship capital. We don’t invest in that. Part of what businesses do is they are really, the ones who are successful, building relationships with their customers. In our customers in the nonprofit world are our supporters, stakeholders, donors, board members, volunteers. We don’t do a good job of nurturing them, do we? Alan: No. Some organizations do a very good job of that, but others, again, don’t take the time, like you said, to really understand what they are. You need to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be. You need to be willing to invest the time and effort in really understanding what people are looking for. Then you have to ask yourself the honest question of whether you can give them that. If you can’t, you walk away. It’s not the right fit. I think that because we love what we do so much, we project our love for what we’re doing onto other people. That is a little bit of a pitfall for people in nonprofits. Hugh: It’s common, isn’t it? That’s a common scenario, isn’t it? Alan: Yeah, it’s very common. I don’t think it’s any different than any other world. People tend to project their own loves and desires and interests on other people. But when you are running a business, it’s dangerous, and it can be devastating. Hugh: I want to get one more thing on the table here before I go to the sponsor message. Russell and I serve leaders as an advisor. We don’t customarily use the word “consultant” or “coach” because there is so much gray around what that means. 90% of those people who say they are consultants give us a bad name. We have gone from consulting to insulting to advising. We have a paradigm in SynerVision that is a WayFinder. We partner and have some strategies to guide the process. But our job is to help leaders step up their own game. I find that the people struggling are the ones who want to figure it out for themselves. I find by and large the successful leaders have someone like one of us as an advisor, whatever they call them. Why do you think people are reluctant to pay for somebody to help them learn, help them be accountable, give them a process, connect them in different ways? Why do you think there is a reluctance for people to do that? Alan: I think there is a little bit of a stigma attached to having a coach. There is some view that if we have to get this guy a coach, there must be something wrong. He’s not doing his job. He’s not performing. My view is that one of the greatest gifts that an organization can offer an employee is coaching, to help them get better on what they do, to help them understand how to get through the challenges they are facing. I think that’s a huge gift an organization can offer an employee, whether it’s a senior executive or a manager, to help them get better at their job. That is a stigma of we had to get this guy a coach, or we had to get this woman a coach, she must not be doing a good job. People will look down at that. I think we have to be very clear that coaching is a positive. Support is a positive. None of us are an island. None of us can completely be effective at everything on our own. Everything has strengths and weaknesses, things they will be good at and not. Giving someone support is a greatest gift an organization can give an employee. Hugh: That’s a great answer. Russell, what do you think? Russell: I think having a trusted advisor is getting somebody that is outside of the scope of what you’re doing and not so attached to it that they may have blind spots. I have discovered that for me. When I work with other people, they have what I call a superpower. We can’t always define our superpowers. They are things that each of us do that are so easy for us that we tend to minimize it or blow it off. Or we may not even recognize it. When you talk to people around you and they say, “Oh, you did something,” and they will point out something you did. Having a system in place where you recognize everybody’s superpowers and you recognize one another’s superpowers is very important. Everybody’s working to their strengths that way. It’s honoring that. It’s honoring what you’re good at and having an outside perspective is how you can pull that genius that is right there in house. I find that when I’m working with organizations, they don’t know how much they don’t know. On the flip side of that, they don’t know how much they already know. Having somebody to help them channel all of that genius is valuable. They will get more out of it. Taking that time over the long haul to really get better at what you do and to define what you do and to find the right people to collaborate with, to serve, to have pay for their services, taking that time is critical. If you don’t take that time, you are serving the wrong people or reaching for the wrong people, you burn a lot of energy. Hugh: Alan, we have laid a lot of themes on the table today for people. You obviously have a lot of wisdom to share, a lot more than we can cover in this limited time. You have a lot of experience. You’re taking some time off for family. You will go for your next venture next year. I’m curious to say where you end up. Whomever gets you will be lucky because you bring a whole lot of value and wisdom to their organization. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* As we close out this really helpful podcast, Alan, what tip or thought do you want to leave with people before Russell closes us out? Alan: I think to boil everything down into a 15-second piece is that if you use business principles in a nonprofit and don’t forget the compassion and the mission, you will be successful. You will maximize your chance for success. I hope people can take that away and cogitate on that a bit and apply that to what they do in the nonprofit world. Russell: Alan Harrison, it has been a joy to sit and speak with you. What is the best way for people to reach you? Alan: If they find me on LinkedIn and try to send me a connection request, I think that’s probably the best way. I’m active on there. I would certainly love to make some new connections there. I want to thank both of you for today. This has been fun and stimulating for me. I always get my best ideas in conversation with other people who understand the subject. This was rewarding for me, and I hope it was rewarding for others as well. Russell: This is definitely rewarding work for us. That’s why we do it. If you can’t have any fun at it, why do it?   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Podcast Notes:   Balance…or Not! I’m writing a new book. I’m thinking of calling it Adrenaline as a Way of Life. Or maybe I’ll try Time: There Will Never be Enough of It, So Squander What You’ve Got. Here’s a sneak peak at my chapter outline. Chapter One: E-mergency Answer all emails at once. Do not delay. Stop whatever you are doing and answer that baby. Chapter Two: Adrenaline is My Motivator Save tasks that are “due today” until the last hour, better yet, the last half hour of your workday so you will have the added energy boost of adrenaline to help you complete your tasks. Chapter Three: Be a Hog Hog the copier. Put off using office machines until the last possible minute, never mind if your colleagues need them. Chapter Four: Under-prepare for Meetings/Rehearsals That way you’ll find out what you’re really made of. Can you fly by the seat of your pants? Are you great at improvisation? Can you fake it in front of a group? Chapter Five: Don’t Bother Planning Ahead, Wait Until the Last Minute Careful planning is over rated! Panic provides lots of energy for a task. It’s contagious too, so if you can get other people panicked about a mutual project, just think of all the energy! Chapter Six: Don’t organize your stuff. That last minute search for materials provides a great panic push just when you need an extra shot of adrenaline. Chapter Seven: Run Don’t walk, run. Run to the workroom, to the bathroom, to your car. Run yellow lights. Heck, run red ones. That gets everyone excited! Chapter Eight: Do One More Thing Do one more thing before you leave. That will insure being late. Chapter Nine: Shallow Breathing Be sure to keep your breath short and rapid. Mimic panic in your breathing at all times. Remember, you don’t have time to take a deep breath. Chapter Ten: Run Late Show up at the last minute, or better yet, arrive late. Increase every one’s anxiety level! Chapter Eleven: Yell Yell at everyone when you are running late. If there is no one there, yell at the empty house. Yell at other cars, yell under your breath or right out loud at anyone or anything that gets in your way. Chapter Twelve: Fast Eat in the car. Even better, don’t eat at all. Being hungry increases your discomfort level and decreases your functioning level which will force your adrenaline to kick in and do it’s magic. When you do eat, gorge on foods that are bad for you. Chapter Thirteen: Blame Blame other people, blame your life situation, blame the traffic, blame the stoplights, blame your mother. Blame anything or anyone you can think of for anything and everything. Chapter Fourteen: Calendar, Schmalandar Don’t bother double-checking your calendar for appointments. Better yet, don’t write them down in the first place. If they really need you, they’ll call you. I wrote this as a joke in a particularly busy season in my life and shared it at a staff meeting as a way of apologizing to my colleagues for my hyper-anxious state of being at work. I wish I could say those things are exaggerations, but they are based on the truth of how out of balance my life was at that time. This winter, as I enter a very busy season once again, I’m attempting to do things differently. Like taking time daily for prayer, exercise, good nutrition, and Sabbath rest. As an experiment, I’m going to take one workday a month out of the office to be still and pray. It’s already making me nervous but I’m determined to do it to break the habits I wrote about in my “book”. As I attempt to regain balance in my work schedule, I hope you’ll be encouraged to do the same. May God bless us on our journey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Managing a nonprofit is a very noble move, but materializing it can be a daunting process even when you have billions of cash waiting to be used for a wonderful cause. In this episode, we learn from the knowledge bank of Christian LeFer who is the CEO and Founder of InstantNonprofit.com as he walks us through the steps of starting a nonprofit, including dealing with the IRS and lawyers. He also presents how he and his team can help anyone aiming to start a foundation or charity and presents them their 501(c)(3) package. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Q1 We have an anger epidemic In our society ...how does that effect nonprofits and my leadership? Q2 How can I tell when anger is damaging my leadership or my team? Q3 How do I step in without creating further escalation of anger or damage? Q4 With the anger epidemic, why do we need more than anger management or stress management.   “Feelings are never buried dead, they are only buried alive.”   Pure Anger - No or ouch! (Boundaries)   Authentic Fear - Pay Attention (Cuing Mechanism)   Healthy I Language for Dealing With These Conflicts - Offline one-on-one if fed by shame. Authentic Curiosity in other cases, don’t judge the anger, be centered what is underneath the agitation?   Shadow - everything about ourselves we conceal or justify inappropriate behavior   "Only pure anger is justifiable."   Reactive Limbic Behavior - escalation, flooding and looping   When someone is flooded - Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Faint   Anger Management only works with escalation by doing a U-turn   When Flooded - Stress chemicals in brain turn off thinking part and throw limbic system into overdrive. No conversation during this time; 15 to 20 minutes before discussion works   How you can tell if someone is Flooded - Fight or flight response to calm rational question.   Forgiveness - Behaving in the present as though I am no longer harmed by the unacceptable in the past.     Q3 Answer - Understand the three flavors of anger, first are they flooded? If not, ask question following statement I can see you are passionate, what concern are you trying to draw our attention to that we have not addressed? What intention are you trying to address? If flooded go one on one instead!     When You Are Unexpectedly Confronted with This Type of Behavior - Take a moment, take a breath, move into authentic curiosity. Do not assume I know. Level 2 “I notice I am starting to feel uncentered. I am wondering if I am the only one. Level three - I am not in a place to facilitate this discussion in a forward moving way. I am committed to resolving this.   The Pleaser - Avoids confrontation at all cost. Storyline revolves around core assumption I am not enough. Intervention - Honest appraisal of what we experienced when people were emotionally honest with us.   "Managing Anger is no substitute for Anger Prevention."     Recycling Anger has to be handled by completion   Parting Thought - Anger is your friend as long as we know how to recognize the four flavors, and the proper clarity and response for each of them. Great discoveries are possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jay Frost brings together people, ideas, and resources to fuel positive change in the world. He has worked with hundreds of organizations to identify and pursue billions in fundraising opportunities around the world. He has been recognized as one of America's Top 10 Fundraising Experts by Philanthropy Media, one of the Top Eight Fundraising Influencers by Elevation Media, one of the Top Thirteen Excellent Fundraising Consultants by Double the Donation, and one of the Top 100 Charity Influencers by Onalytica. A successful fundraising program is within the reach of any charitable organization. But it often takes a shift of perspective and One of the greatest challenges for every nonprofit is attracting individuals with the capacity to give a major gift. In "Power Prospecting,"Jay explores how to find the top wealth holders within your constituency, throughout your community, across the country and around the world. Whether you are embarking on a capital campaign or just trying to expand your private philanthropic support, this workshop will prepare you to identify people who can make your mission possible. More about Jay Frost at https://www.frostonfundraising.com/meet-jay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

RiverLogic: Tools to Transform Resistance: Interview with Denise Blanc We have the capacity to soften resistance and support more ease in our communication with anyone- but we will need intention, courage, and willingness to build more vital skills. How Denise Blanc describes herself – I believe that outstanding leadership requires courage – the courage to be authentic, not always to know the answer, and the courage to speak the truth. It also requires the ability to manage relationships, navigate social networks, influence, and inspire others. This understanding is rooted in over two decades of working in Organization Development as a leadership/team coach, facilitator, mediator, and internal senior leader. Whether coaching CEOs, executive directors, engineers, physician leaders, or their teams, I provide practical tools to tackle tough conversations, harness a growth mindset, and create high trust/high-performing cultures. Consulting in both healthcare, high education, and business industries, my key areas of focus include leadership/team development, emotional intelligence, equity & positive change, and conflict transformation. Over my career, I have been the chief architect of three leadership academies (serving 800+ leaders) from Supervisor through C-Suite, all providing a shared language and the skillset to lead across multiple sites and disciplines. While at the St. Joseph Health System, I was the recipient of several awards for leadership design, “best practice for developing future leaders” and “The International Spirt at Work Award.” I hold a BA in Psychology from the University of Colorado, and an MA in Health Education from JFK University. My background includes certifications in Conflict Resolution and as an Emotional Intelligence Coach through Six Seconds at the ACC level. I have advanced skills interpreting various industry-recognized assessment instruments including Six Seconds Emotional Intelligence tests for leaders and organizations, DiSC, Enneagram, Gallup Strengthsfinder, The TKI Conflict Assessment, and numerous 360 feedback assessments. I have trained extensively with the program “Crucial Conversations.” For the past five years, I have taught programs on social justice and race identity for both healthcare and within Shambhala, a global Tibetan Buddhist organization. I am the author of Riverlogic: Tools to Transform Resistance and Create Flow in all our Relationships. More about Denise at https://www.riverlogictools.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How Speakers And Experts Can Write And Publish A Book For Social Impact Interview with Jeremy Jones Jeremy C. Jones, a proud military veteran, is also a family man and entrepreneur who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. His accomplishments include being a four-time #1 Best-Selling Author on Amazon, hosting the popular podcast “Ideas & Impact,” and founding and serving as CEO at Jones Media Publishing.     Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. This little interview will be packed with some ideas we hope will be useful to you. Today, we have Jeremy Jones, who comes to us from north Scottsdale, Arizona. Jeremy, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell folks a little bit about you, why you’re doing this, and your passion. Jeremy Jones: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction. I appreciate it. A little bit about my background. I grew up in southern California and went into the military at the age of 18. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for four years. Just to give your audience a reference of time, when I was getting ready to get out of the military was during the September 11 attack, 2001. I was a part of Operation Enduring Freedom. I was in the military during that time and shortly got out after, which was March of 2002. I moved here to Arizona, where I have been living and working of about 17 years now. Over time, I got my Bachelor of Arts degree. I started working of a company, working for myself. At the point where I had transitioned to fully working for myself, I was looking to get an edge on not only just the competition, but to set myself apart because I felt like I was really good at what I did. I authored a book and saw how it helped open up doors for me to get speaking engagements. I helped one of our clients be able to publish a book as well. That is where I developed a specialty of what we do with book publishing. Right now, I currently have that program. It’s all we do. It’s my primary business. Jones Media Publishing is the top rated book publisher for coaches, consultants, speakers, and experts to help them publish a book that can be used as a tool to get speaking engagements and new clients. I am so passionate about this because a book can be a tool to help an expert share their message that is impactful, share the story of the charity, nonprofit, or organization, to share the reason why they do what they do and the principles behind it, to help them reach an audience that are outside of their sphere of influence. Hugh: That’s really great. I published my first book in 2007. It’s called Moving Spirits, Building Lives. It’s a church musician as a transformational leader. It’s how I pivoted from being a conductor into organizational leadership. The conductor takes a bunch of singers and transforms them into a choir, transforms the choir into an ensemble, transforms people’s lives. In church work, in the orchestra, it’s the same kind of thing. I teach people how to build high-performing teams. I self-published and went to a church music conference. Nobody knew me. I had a bunch of books. There were 600 people there, and I sold 100 books. All of a sudden, people were quoting me, and I was a celebrity because I was an authority on a topic. Now, it took me 40 years to write the book, 30 days to put it on paper. So I sent myself a daily regimen and outlined it and wrote it. Miscellaneous chapters. I wrote the ones that flowed easily. The fist chapter I wrote was “Managing Time.” I wrote about it, so I have to do it. I can tell you that was a business card. The book was an open-door business card. People are really impressed that you have a book. I have had several other people quote my books in other books on the topic. That was my basic premise on transformational leadership. I have done other books and courses. It was really me putting on paper. The process was clarifying for me. What do you find is most helpful? We’re talking to clergy and nonprofit leaders and their teams. I do experience they have lots of stories to tell, but they don’t know how to get them out there. We think we published a book and it’s a bestseller, so we’re going to be filthy rich. That’s not exactly the purpose, is it? Jeremy: No, not necessarily. So we always start with the foundation. A lot of times, when someone is referred to us, they come to us for three primary reasons. One is for contribution. They have a message that is important to them; they want to get it out to as many people as possible. The second reason is to have it be a tool to get clients for their business or speaking engagements, which furthers the message about what they do. The third reason is for credibility and authority. The book serves as a purpose to position you as an authority, a specialized expert at what you do. Whenever someone comes to us and says, “I have a book, but I feel like I’m stuck,” which is common, we start with the main purpose of the book. What is the purpose of the book for you? The whole structure and the outline of the book can be determined to serve that purpose if we know the reason why the author is writing the book, and who they are writing it for. You’d be surprised how many people don’t think through that process. That’s what we’re very good at. That’s what we work with each of our authors on. We develop a profile of who the book is for, what we need to cover within the book. We help them structure and outline their book properly. I will give you an example here based on your question. We had one author who wanted to be a public speaker. Inside of her book, she didn’t mention anything about her having the ability to speak, or that she has even spoken. And she had spoken. What I recommended to her, because she was pretty far along, is within the book, rather than telling a bunch of random stories, she told a very specific story how she went to go speak somewhere, what she said impacted the people in the audience, and what happened as a result. A real quick story. Doesn’t need to be very long. Only needs to be a couple of paragraphs. Because she told that story, it illustrated the point that she is a professional speaker. It demonstrates that she speaks, and people get a positive response by her speaking. Guess what a meeting organizer wants when they want you to speak? A good response from the audience, and for the audience to do something with what they learned. They want their speaker to perform to their audience and bring value to their audience. There are certain things we can do with the outline based on the purpose. You asked your question about stories. Depending on the purpose, depending on the structure and outline also depends how much of those stories or what stories even to make sense to include. Hugh: Before people melt down and say that’s too much work, let me unpack a couple things. I found it very empowering laying it out in writing. I had cleared a month to write my first book. Those other books were written piecemeal through blog posts or other things I had put together. You have to be careful if you do it randomly so it has continuity. Having a good editor. The thing that occurs to me is a lot of churches and nonprofits don’t consider branding. What you’re talking about is your branding. Who are you? Who is your audience? How do you show up with that audience? What is your brand image? I had a brander publish a book called Twist. Her publicist contacted me and wanted an interview on my business podcast. During the interview, I had her book out. We were talking about putting a twist on your brand. I asked her, “How did you find me?” She said, “Your brand really stood out: the conductor that teaches leadership. That sets you out above everybody else.” If you’re having trouble in your charity raising money, getting volunteers, maybe your brand isn’t clear. If people aren’t coming to your church or synagogue, there may not be a clear brand image on what they can expect or who you’re marketing to. What are they going to experience when they get there? Why should they come? Any of those things, do you help people sort that out? Or do they need to come in with a brand ready? Do you help them decide who they are and how they want to show up in the world? Jeremy: That’s what we help each of our authors and clients with. It starts with the structure and outline of the book first. Determining what is included in all of the chapters. We do a lot of research on book titles. The title is an important component of the book because that is the first thing that potential readers or audience members at an event see. When they see you’re the author of X book, that’s a determining factor to represent who you are. If you have a book about purpose, like Purpose-Driven Life, you know that’s what the author is representing and talking about in their book. If you have a book called Family History Secrets, they are all about the secrets of their family. The title of the book does represent the message and what the author is all about. All of those things need to be considered with the end in mind. That’s why I reference quite a bit with our members, because we coach our members through the entire process, from a blank Word document to published book, is we always do what Stephen Covey said in his famous book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, is begin with the end in mind. We always look at the end in mind for the purpose and the title. Hugh: It sounds awfully hard. I did everything myself. I went and found a printer. Actually, I had pitched my first book. Instead of making a dollar, it cost me a dollar, and I made $13 selling the book. They said clergy wouldn’t buy it, but most people had clergy. I put music notes on my cover. My name was big on the cover. I don’t know if I would redo it. If I feel like I want to do that, I would redo another type of book. All of that stuff. I am looking back and thinking, I wish I’d had somebody like Jeremy Jones guide me through the process. It was difficult. I had somebody proof it who didn’t do a good job. My first printing was full of typos. That is a credibility issue. Jeremy: It is. What we do is we have the entire process outlined in three phases. That’s how we are basically a guide, guiding people through the process so it doesn’t ever feel overwhelming. We have divided our unique publishing process into three primary phases. Phase one is what we call the create or foundation phase. That’s everything related to who the book is for, the purpose of the book for you, getting the book structured and outlined properly in a simple and systematic way, getting the book written in a time-effective manner because we know most of our authors or members are not writing the book three hours a day. They have a certain window of time they can allot outside of their business or profession. We are sensitive to that. We realize it does take an amount of time, but we want it to be as efficient as possible for each of our members. We have some programs in order to do that to help keep the writing efficient, providing editing along the way to provide feedback and insight for the author. That’s all phase one. Then it goes to our team of editors to edit it properly so that the author doesn’t have to deal with any of what you just mentioned. Where we have had people come to us and say, “I tried to do this myself. It’s full of typos. I need to get it done right.” Our model is that traditional publishing house level of quality, but each of our authors retains full rights to their book. Everything I just mentioned is in phase one. Phase two is everything related to what we call packaging it. Packaging it as a product. Professional book cover design. The layout for the paperback book. Amazon and Kindle ebook formatting. Those are the primary three book formats. The third phase is the book release. When we first start our authors and they are thinking about their release, what we do is help guide them. Let’s do phase one first. Then we move to phase two, then phase three. That’s what we do is help facilitate each of those steps along the way so there is never any guesswork. Hugh: That’s important. My clients in launching and growing an organization, people don’t know what to do next. They do things randomly, which is not productive. It sounds like what could be a complicated process, you have streamlined what to do next. Is there a lot of I think what holds up a lot of people is they say I have to carve out time to do all this writing. I’ll do that next year. It’s the I’m going to wait until the perfect time. I will do it when… the famous excuse. Why should people wait? Can they get started? Is there a different way to put words on paper? Can they dictate them and have someone transcribe them? Are there options? Jeremy: There definitely are options. When we are in the writing phase, if the author wants to dictate what they have written, we have a unique process around doing that. It all starts with making sure everything is organized properly. If we have a book structure in place, if we have the outline in place, when the author is dictating something, it’s not random. What creates a high expense for editing, the editing process completely multiplies itself and becomes expensive, when the editor has to go in and restructure and rewrite the developmental edit of everything. What we recommend is to do it in bite-sized chunks. Chapter one is typically broken into about three or five subparts. If the author is going to speak their book and transcribe it, they only focus on chapter one, point one. Then chapter one, point two. Then chapter one, point three. They are only talking about this one thing for a short period of time. That can be transcribed and cleaned up because it’s focused, and it doesn’t need this entire reworking. That piece dramatically deceases the time. Another thing is the reason that most people take a lot of time to write their book is because they don’t have everything structured from the beginning. What a lot of our authors do is prior to them working with us, is they get an idea and are excited about turning it into a book. They get committed to it. They are on fire about it. They see the impact. They grab their laptop and start pounding away at the keyboard, writing that story and this story. It’s a bunch of stuff they are typing out. Then they get to the point where they go, “Wait a minute. Should I include this in chapter one or four? Maybe this should be later in the book and this should be earlier.” They find themselves for five hours taking this and moving it here, taking this and moving that there, and rewording it. That process is frustrating and time-consuming. Our unique process we have developed is to help the author develop a proper structure for a book based on industry publishing standards to get it all structured first and then fill in the gaps. The way I like to illustrate this is when you think about a sculptor that is sculpting a big heavy sculpture. If it’s big and heavy, they don’t take a giant glob of clay, plop it there, and start doing fine detail. That’s what people do with writing a book. They don’t write it immediately in fine detail. What a sculptor does is they develop a wire frame of the body of the sculpture, and then they build the mesh. The mesh represents the body of it. Then they put on the clay, which forms the fine detail. If you do the same process when writing a book, first you look at the structure, which makes up all the chapters. Then you look at the chapters, which makes up each of those components for a properly published book. But you get to the writing once that is developed. You are cutting your writing time by a fifth; you will have a fifth of the time it takes to write in my experience. Hugh: There is always this fear of the unknown. I’ve had people tell me that they have done a series of blog posts and written the book and build excitement as they launch the book. People have read the blog and still buy the book because it’s all in one place instead of strung out into a series of articles. That sounds like a good way to lay it out and think through it and get some real-time response. Do you have a reading on that? Jeremy: Sure, we’ve had authors who have done that. We’ve had authors who have done that with writing. If your style is you’re more comfortable with writing, that’s a great way to do that. Get to the exercise of writing and putting out blog posts and getting feedback. That’s a great way to start. We have had another author as well who does it through audio forums, the course of a podcast. We’ll have a chapter he wants to talk about, stories he wants to share, through the course of the podcast verbally. He is talking through the content that he wants to include in the book. That is a great exercise as well to speak out the story. Then you relisten to yourself telling the story, and you can very easily type it out, have it transcribed and cleaned up. Sure. Doing that process is a great exercise because you can get some feedback from people. See the response, the engagement, who leaves a comment. That’s a helpful way to do that. Hugh: One thing I notice is you talk about the title. The title makes me stop when I go in the bookstore. All these books. What first catches my attention is the title. Not only the words in the title, but how it’s laid out. Then I pick up the book, and I look for an index and the contents. If it’s just a bunch of boring copy, that’s a downer for me. I respect books that are laid out with some highlights, some images. I had mine with some little breakout highlighted paragraphs with tips throughout. I look for specific things that say to me it will be an interesting journey when I read this book. The titling is wordsmithing, but the rest of it, the cover appearance, the appearance of the title, and the book, what are the factors that encourage people- I’m talking about a physical book now. What are some of the things that make the book attractive so a person would want to pick it up and buy it? Jeremy: That’s a great question. The first thing is the book title. The primary title, and the subtitle. I always encourage authors to create a compelling subtitle. The primary title should basically encompass the main thing the book is about. The subtitle should give the readers some additional information to help clarify what the book is all about. That’s the first thing. The image of the book should be simple. Some of the best-selling books are simply all typography. Typography means it’s all text. The title of the book should be clear and easy to read. In most cases, no script. Real scripted fonts are a bad idea because of readability. You want it at first glance to be easily read. Then the cover has pleasing design. The very next thing, you imagine if you are in a bookstore, is you flip the book open. The book should have a well-written book description on the back of the book, which teases or creates curiosity for the potential reader to let them know what’s inside the book. That’s on the physical book. On the Amazon book listing, we recommend to most of our authors who want to include it is you want to tease to the potential reader what’s potentially in a variety of chapters in your book. Topic #1 would be chapter one. You would let them know what they would get out of each chapter in some bullet points. Giving those bullet points to that potential reader is giving them some insight as to what is in the book. The nice thing about Amazon as well is they have the ability if you are getting the book online to do a Look Inside and see the table of contents. What we find in most cases is the first line of defense is the book cover. Then it’s the back, which is the description on the back of the book or in the Amazon book listing description. Then once when they are inside the book, it’s the table of contents. That right there also lets you know you need to have a well-written table of contents that also informs the reader as to what is in the chapter. Those should also be well-written. They are almost like many titles of your book. They are titles of your chapters. That’s what I recommend. Hugh: I threw up a cover. This is my fourth book. It was one of the imprints for the United Methodist Publishing House, which has since closed. They did this attractive cover. It was an anthology, so I had famous people on the front and endorsements from the back from two authors of Chicken Soup. We made it to the second print. What was a mistake was the cover doesn’t have the subtitle. It was Stories of Transformation by Leaders. I didn’t realize until after I had released it that it didn’t have it there. That was a liability. To your point, it looked interesting. They had an artist do it, so I went with it. I do find that I look for what it’s really about. The other thing is picking the right categories. With Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it’s #2 in the transformational leadership category. I don’t know how it got there because that was mostly by accident. I tried intentionally to get this one to bestseller. Just wanted to say I did it. I didn’t make a lot of money, especially if you go through a regular publisher, you don’t get paid until you get that advance back. Speak more about the artistry of design and how, this subliminal message and attraction thing that goes on to entice them to grab it. Once they grab it, that’s half the battle, wouldn’t you say? Jeremy: I would say so, yeah. Grabbing their attention first, yes. Once you have their attention, then it’s the book description that takes them to the next piece. The title leads to the subtitle leads to the description leads to the table of contents, which leads them into the book. If they feel like the book would bring them value, that’s when they make the decision to buy the book. Nonfiction books, the value in most cases is something they would learn to improve their life. About 80% of the books we publish are nonfiction. The value to the reader for fiction books is entertainment. Getting them outside of their own reality and their mind to imagine this outside world as entertainment. That is the value you bring to them. A lot of fiction authors don’t consider that, but they have to market it that way when they are looking at writing their book description. How can you paint the picture of the value you will bring to this reader, which is capturing their mind and imagination? Hugh: I’m positioning a book as part of the overall marketing program for a nonprofit. Is that okay? It’s a marketing tool. There are lots of reasons, but for the purposes of where I’m going with this. It’s part of the awareness. It doesn’t differ for an entrepreneur running a business. Like leadership, the principles are the same. I’m a speaker, too. Speaking itself is not a sustainable revenue source. You get paid, and it’s gone. What we want to do is have back of the room material. You want to have books, courses, and other things you can offer people, which is a secondary flow of revenue. A lot of nonprofits have a lot of resources, their own and those of others who provide value in the space they are operating. Talk a minute about how a 501(c)3 can use a book to monetize, to bring in revenue. Jeremy: That is a great question. To answer your question, the way we have seen this work best, because of our model, we have a traditional publishing house level of quality. The author retains full rights, and they earn 100% of the royalties, minus the printing cost of the book. In that situation, where we’ve had two paths here, number one is the expert or influencer would write the book from their perspective, teaching something, sharing a message, and the nonprofit is mentioned within the book. The sale of the books would go to raise funds for a 501(c)3. You could sell a bundle of books to a company. When they buy books, the profit of books goes to the nonprofit. That is one way. Another way we have seen several of our authors do is the author runs a business themselves, or they are a speaker. But the nonprofit is the sponsor of the book. The nonprofit is mentioned on the back of the book. A portion of the proceeds go from the sale of the books toward the nonprofit. When the author is promoting the book, they can say, “A portion of the proceeds are going toward this nonprofit.” People like to contribute to causes or businesses that contribute to causes. There is a lot of joint venture opportunities that could come from that as well. The 501(c)3 could have donor lists. A list of all people who have donated. They could send a message to the donors saying, “We have partnered with this author. The proceeds are going back to our nonprofit. We think our audience would love this book. If you buy this book, proceeds go.” There are different types of things you could do within the marketing to split the proceeds or all of the proceeds because the author gets paid to speak or a back-end to the book where they are not so concerned about the profits of the book. This can be good. But they get paid on coaching clients, business services, things like that. Hugh: I have also said there are purpose books that teach people about particular things, how to get out of poverty, topics like that that explain to constituents. I live in Lynchburg, Virginia, where we have a high poverty rate. There are lots of initiatives about poverty. Getting them food, housing, and clothing does not raise them out of poverty. It’s the mindset. The mindset takes us to a very different place. My material is helping people reframe their thinking. I spend a lot of time reframing the thinking for nonprofit leaders. I have seen occasions where a sponsor buys the back page. It’s a helpful book for a certain segment or purpose. They give it away. But it has the sponsor message. They will buy 10,000 books. The company itself uses it for a marketing tool, and there is a mass distribution. Is that a scenario you see much? Does it really work? Jeremy: To a degree. I would say the most important thing is the sponsor, or the one representing, is in complete alignment with the audience or the reader and the values of the company. With your example, we publish quite a few books for health and wellness professionals or health coaches. I would never recommend they have a big soda company for obvious reasons because they can’t condone drinking soda. Hugh: Different brands. Jeremy: And the purpose of the product as well. Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, they are not bad companies. It’s just a drink. But it’s not ever recommended by that particular person. If a health and fitness trainer wrote a book and they wanted to have a dietary supplement be a sponsor, perfect alignment. The supplement provider could email or promote or Facebook ads, whatever they choose to do, to promote the book, and it also tells them in the book how to take the supplement, which the trainer recommends. There is consistency happening there. I always recommend looking at, in most cases, there is, there is some sort of consistency you could create, and there is a company out there that would see that as alignment for their brand. Hugh: It’s the principle I was trying to illuminate there. If their brand is compatible with your brand, and there is value for both brands. Jeremy: I’d say so. Hugh: It’s not magical finding someone who wants to do that. Jeremy: On that note, I also do recommend to not make obvious blatant advertisements on the book. When someone normally gets a book, you wouldn’t see a blatant advertisement. But marketing is something that we’re very focused on with the book. We help with the launch. We are focused on joint ventures. There are easily things you can do to give the reader more value and subtly promote the other company. Using the example of the fitness trainer. Within the book, the fitness trainer talks about using this particular protein supplement. The company is mentioned several times. The author could mention a guide that talks about 50 smoothie recipes to use this supplement with, and they download this guide with these recipes. That company is mentioned, and there is a link you can go to to order this supplement. There are things you can do to not make it an advertisement, but an added value for the reader. Hugh: It’s only fair. You have several books. Book Publishing on Demand, Power Authority, and Lead Flow. Those are on Amazon? Jeremy: Yeah. Hugh: You can also find them on JonesMediaPublishing.com. Then you have a podcast. AskJeremyJones.com/Podcast. What kind of things do you talk about on your podcast? Jeremy: The podcast is a lot of fun. We just published our 169th episode. The show is called Ideas and Impact. We interview authors, speakers, and subject matter experts about three big ideas you feel could be really impactful for people if they applied them into their lives, either on the personal side or on the business side. We have interviewed people about relationships, marriage, parenting on the personal side. On the wealth side of things, business growth, marketing, sales, things like that. And on the health side, we have talked about health and fitness, weight loss, all things. It’s similar to like a TED Talk. You go there to listen for something insightful that you can immediately put into action with your life. It’s been a lot of fun. Hugh: I am sorry I didn’t know about your podcast, but I do now. Is there anybody on the horizon that will be exciting? Jeremy: John Nemo is on the line-up. He is a LinkedIn expert. Teaches people how to optimize their LinkedIn profile. We mention John David Mann, who is the co-author of The Go-Giver and also Bob Berg, who co-authored it. We interviewed Ivan Meisner from BNI, the largest business organization in the world. That was an incredible interview as well. We’ve had a few high-level celebrity-type people. We have Hugh up and coming. That’s a given, Hugh. Hugh: I have been having back problems, but I had a shot today, so I’m a new man. Which new man I am. I am eager to find out more. I am going to listen to it. Jeremy: You can get all the episodes at AskJeremyJones.com. Hugh: Jeremy Jones, you are a real wealth of information. We had an author last week, Scott S. Smith, who has written 1,800 leadership articles for Investors Business Daily of all places. Leaders want to know about leaders. It was a powerful interview. I look forward to sharing some things with your audience. This has been helpful. I am reliving my journey of writing a book. I will say to people I spent 40 years in church music ministry. One time, I did a pivot and said, “I am a transformational leader.” I repositioned myself. I went from having my back to the audience as a conductor to facing the audience as a speaker. That was a physical 180-degree transformation. The book was a way for me to be clear on my message. Once I started writing, I found out I knew a whole lot of stuff that was valuable to people. We are in the third printing. To keep the price down, I bought a whole bunch. You can have a print book, but you can do it on demand. You can print a few. You can print a bunch. What are some of the options when you publish a book? Jeremy: We recommend to start with the print on demand option to get the process going until the author has enough established where they can hold some books on hand, which is a good idea to have some on hand. In most cases, because we run a printing and distribution facility, we can print on demand pretty quickly for our authors. We have one author just recently about a week and a half ago did an event with 200 people. She let us know, “Hey, I am doing an event with 200 people. I am going to need 200 books at this address.” We print them, package them up, ship them to her event. Within about five business days, they can be printed. We can fulfill and do that on demand. For higher quantities of books, make sure there is a good reason to have a higher quantity. You can get some price breaks. We can do that as well. Typically, what we do is start with the paperback. That’s established. The author knows their printing pricing. We can work with that as well. Then we have the e-book version. There is no hard cost there. Once we finalize the paperback and do the release, a few of our authors like to have a hardback version. We do have printing facility capabilities to do that version with a dust jacket, which looks really nice. The printing cost is a little bit higher, but we have worked it out where we can do it on fairly low quantities. We can do a couple hundred books for a reasonable cost. Hugh: Good to know. There is the paperback, the hardback, the e-book, and the Kindle book. What about audiobooks? Are those valuable? Jeremy: Those are valuable. We provide some training and resources of how to get that up and going. We don’t provide the services to do that. There is three options. Some of the authors want to speak the book themselves, which we usually recommend as the best option. But they have to have capability to go to a studio, record the audios, and have it cut properly for Amazon ACX, which is Audible’s program for audiobooks. The second option is you can hire a voice actor and pay them up front. You still retain your side of the rights, and you get the royalties from Amazon directly. The third option is you can hire a voice recording artist and split the royalties with them. That’s all built into there. You can choose the royalty option you want. We provide some resources. If the author wants to do an audiobook, we guide them on what is the best option and how it works. Hugh: That was the audiobook from Barefoot Winery. They were our guest a few weeks ago. They had a whole drama team that did the book. It was stunning. They didn’t spare any cost. They sold the winery. They are marketing experts who accidentally got into the winery business. I never thought about getting a drama team to produce the book. It was a story. That was powerful. They helped nonprofits raise money through their activity with the winery. The book was out there to say this is an idea for you. It’s been a bestseller for quite a while. Jeremy: I like that. It makes sense. Hugh: A lot of people do creative things. Books are not dead. I was talking to somebody the other day about how good leaders read. People at the top of their game read. There is no variance to that. They read the same books again over time and mark it with a different color marker because you will see different things when you go back. On my bookshelf, I have a lot of Kindle books, too. Somebody was telling me a physical book, you absorb better. Do you have an opinion on that, whether physical books are better than e-books? Jeremy: I am of the view that everybody learns differently. When some people learn something new or when they relax, they like to look at the words on a physical paper. I like to do that, too. I like to look and jot notes in the margins or write things down as I’m going. Total focus. If I have a book I want to totally focus on, I will get a paperback. I find that’s the case with most people. When you just want to take a book with you, I have a Kindle app as well on all my devices, I like to have e-books as well to have books I can reference. E-books are great for that, to have a library of books you can carry around with you everywhere. Audiobooks are popular right now. We are starting to get more involved with that, with our clients. That’s a great medium for when people are busy. A lot of business owners listen to audiobooks now. When you’re driving and commuting places, you can listen to audiobooks. You can’t read while you’re driving until we all have self-driving Teslas, which I don’t know how many years that’s out. For right now, we’re not reading while we’re driving, so audiobooks are a great option for that. I think it depends on how you consume information. I agree with you. I don’t think paperbacks, even though we have all these capabilities in different mediums, I really don’t think that they’re going anywhere. Hugh: I agree. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Jeremy Jones, what do you want to leave people with? Jeremy: For anyone watching or listening, if you have had a dream and a desire to write a book, we have many people say, “I just wanted to write something, to inspire people, to share a message with people.” A lot of people think that contacting a publisher too early in the process. I need to get further along. I need to write out my ideas. I need to get to some point before I explore that with anyone. I think the earlier, the better. That’s what we’re here for. On the foundational process, of making sure all the things work together to meet your objectives for a book. Some people, I say, “Hey, I think this is a great idea for a book, but not now. With where you’re at and what you’re doing, wait until you have this set up or this timing is better.” A lot of it is timing. That’s what we do. We do a free book strategy session with anyone who would like to explore the idea of a book, how it can integrate with your organization, how that could work. We’d be happy to explore that. Also, I run a free Facebook group for the podcast called Ideas and Impact. If you go to AskJeremyJones.com, there is a Facebook icon at the top. Click on that, and you can join our free group. I am happy to answer any questions you have or explore the idea with you. Hugh: Jeremy Jones, this has been a delight. I have published lots of books, but I have learned a lot of new stuff today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Increase Your Reach and Donations: Learn About How to Get $10K in Free Adwords [caption id="attachment_1523" align="alignleft" width="150"] Pip Patton[/caption] Pip Patton and John Zentmeyer will share secrets about how to get $10K in free Google AdWords monthly and how to drive more traffic to your website for more engagement and more publicity. Their company,  Search Intelligence LLC, based in Tampa Florida, is a digital marketing agency. 'We believe that marketing in today's digital age should not be confusing to utilize and benefit from.' We help you accomplish this by offering digital marketing services that are easy to understand and implement. Our services start with SEO and include optimized website design, social media management, video marketing and traffic analysis so you can make informed decisions about your marketing strategy. We also work with non-profits by helping them apply for and obtain a Google Grant. A Google Grant is a grant of $10,000 in AdWords advertising each month for your non-profit. You can use the grant to promote your non-profit and gain more exposure online; increase awareness, recruit volunteers, promote special events, etc. Notes from the Interview   Why do we care if people come to our websites? Need for visibility brings more of people you want to see, online is where people are looking. Not ranking on Google is like being 100 miles off the highway with no lights turned on. No one can find you! You can’t get the word out on your work if no one can find you. How do you figure out who to attract to your website?   Extensive interview with client, create keywords and Adwords to drive traffic, find out what people are searching for through online research, very few people aware of what prospects are searching for and tax status is not a factor. Online is where more search for info takes place! 1. What is a Google Grant and How Do I Apply? Google’s way to give back to the community; $10,000 month available to 501(c)3; keyword bids restricted to $2 or less; must find enough keywords to use all of the funds. Qualifications - verify status as charity; apply online; campaign (Adwords) must be ready to go when launching  2. What is SEO and why do I need it for my charity or church?  Paid v. Organic Search priority given to paid; Ranking based on most relevant to search according to Google who cater to their own customers; can use best keywords when they are paid for; Google rates the information you provide, you have to build authority; organic search provides 5 times amount of results as paid search; you have to build credibility through your results; good information adds to your authority! Facebook uses pixels attached to your website to build a “smart dat profile.” Google does not do this for you. LinkedIn relation to Google - optimized profiles are critical to building authority, it helps develop authority Organic Reach - Basics Clarity around what you do needs to be clear to Google tech; links back to high authority sites on subject helps (on page SEO) must be relevant and valuable; Google grades authority based on links from other sites, social media, or blog posts that are shared or other shared information. This all takes time using SEO. Only 18% to 20% of traffic comes from paid search. The rest is organic! The top 3 get the lion’s share! Analytics tell you what people type in to find you. Free tutorials available from Google. One-third of searches on monthly basis are different from anything they’ve ever seen before! QUUU.com Buffer and QUUU work together How do people learn how to do SEO in a way that helps them?  Creating a presence on the main social media sites use tools like Buffer (link posts to other sites); Quuu - (Aggregator of articles and information for curation); make sure you include some original content that increases engagement Basic Visibility Enhancers - get more than one account (the Big 5; Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google+, and Instagram); have accurate info on all sites; hire  someone who has expertise because everything changes frequently Algorithms for mobile and desktop differ, mobile friendly search is more important all the time; by 2018 it will dominate rankings; far more searches on mobile than desktop! Closing Thoughts - (John) Go through strategy form to provide the types of information they need to provide good service; stay in your wheelhouse and focus on what you know, let your SEO experts to help you get where you need to be; search terms most relevant to you Closing thoughts - (Pipp) - Take time to analyze your site and other information; video is a great tool for conversion, less than 2 minutes is best when it is engaging, speak like you are having a conversation with a single person; video drives up conversion considerably. Contact Information Search Intelligence, LLC 1520 W Cleveland St Tampa, FL 33606 (813) 321-3390 http://www.si-5.com   The Interview Transcript NPC Interview with Pipp Patton & John Zentmeyer Hugh Ballou: Welcome, everyone. We are talking nonprofit language. Our guests tonight are two distinguished-looking gentlemen, Pipp Patton and John Zentmeyer. They are in Florida on the Gulf Coast and in central Florida. They have a very defined expertise. I met Pipp on a couple trips in Orlando doing some interaction with CEOs. You must be a CEO if you are in that group. This company you have, tell me what the name of it is, what inspired you to launch this company, and a little bit about your history and expertise that you bring to this very specialized space. Pipp Patton: Thank you for having us on. My background: Over 20 years ago, I was actually in the yellow pages business. I used to work with small businesses, helping them promote themselves and growing through the vehicle of yellow pages back when the yellow page directory was the search engine of choice. Then that changed about 10 years ago. At that time, I was transitioning out of yellow pages. I enjoyed working with business owners, and the technology and the digital arena was of great interest to me. I studied it and tried to learn it. I have been now working about seven years or so in that arena with an agency model, where I help businesses be found in Google search primarily. Hugh: I used to buy yellow page ads when I had a camera shop. It was the go-to place to find out who to hire and who to solve your problems. That was a unique spot. You transitioned from that space? Was that a direct transition to the digital marketing that you do? Pipp: Yeah, pretty much. At that particular time, I left yellow pages because the company I worked for got bought out by someone else, and they didn’t treat their new acquisition people real well. So it was a good opportunity for me to leave there. At that time, my mom needed some attention and care, so I decided to stay home and take care of her. Shortly thereafter, I had been studying digital marketing and had a couple of people that I met that really needed help in that arena. I helped them, and the business evolved from there. Hugh: Awesome. To fall into that. John, you are part of this team. Talk about that. What brought you to this place? John Zentmeyer: Directly, Pipp brought me to the place. Pipp and I have done business together off and on, many different ventures, always been good buddies, and always enjoyed bouncing business ideas off each other for over 30 years now. Last year, I was making a transition, and I have owned several businesses. At the time, I was working with a group that I thought I would be at for the rest of my career, but that doesn’t always happen. But Pipp and I had always talked a lot about what he was doing and what was happening in the SEO world. All my career, I have looked for ways to bring large ROIs to companies or to my clients. SEO is a great way to do that. I have always been in the technology world, mostly automation, but this has been a lot of fun, and we have enjoyed working closer together. Hugh: Russell Dennis has been stalking you, so Russell, what did you find out about them online? Russell Dennis: John said wonderful things about Pipp online. It’s a glowing testimony. There are a number of things. There is this track record of years where you have been getting premium results. Coming from the yellow page world, I saw yellow page ads in my sophomore year of college. I made a truckload of money that summer. This was back in 1995 of course. Pipp: That was a good time to be in yellow pages. John: It probably wouldn’t work as well this summer. Russell: Probably not. I would probably go hungry over the summer. You see things like Yelp, but everything is a known directory. The only real power in that stuff is in the testimonials and getting credibility. Hugh: Awesome. That is back when a truckload really meant something. A truckload of money was worth something. Russell: That was before the exchange rates went to pot. Hugh: Oh gosh, yeah. Guys, we sent out an email today and one just a few minutes ago to tell people they could get $10,000 of free AdWords. We are going to talk about that. These are people who are in what we call social benefit work. They are running a membership organization. It has a tax-exempt status. They are running a church or synagogue, a community foundation, a cause-based charity. There are lots of people who are in education or government organizations, like down the road from me, we have an agency on aging, my peer group. We have a lot of people doing really good work. Why should we care that people come to our website? We want to direct traffic, but let’s talk about why people come. Who do we want to attract? Let’s take it sequentially. Why do we care, and then who do we want to bring to our website? Pipp: Whether it’s a nonprofit or a regular for-profit business, you need more customers, more exposure, more people to know who you are and what you do. Whether they have an interest in perhaps volunteering or donating or being involved in special events that you have, taking advantage of what you may teach, all of those things are there, so having a higher profile online will bring more of those eyeballs and ears to you. If people want information about anything, they are online. John: Take it one step further. Having a website online and not being ranked in Google anywhere is like having your nonprofit or for-profit business ministry, whatever you’re doing, out in the middle of a very dark desert with no lights. So you cannot be found. If you are providing a service for somebody in a nonprofit arena, then the idea is you want people who are looking for that service to be able to find you. That is the biggest reason that you want to expose yourself on that side. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing. If you’re doing for-profit, you want people to be able to find you. Hugh: There are lots of really good organizations doing really fine work that nobody is aware of. It would occur to me that PR is one good reason. I know people will support the cause they believe in. If they can go to somebody’s website and see the impact of the work of the charity—who are we serving, what problem are we solving—how do we figure out which people to attract to the website? That matters a lot, doesn’t it? Pipp: It definitely does. In our world, what John and I do, generally when we work with an organization, they are telling us what people are searching for to find them, or at least the basic concept. We will build campaigns around that. If we are doing SEO, then we are going to work to make their site visible for certain keywords, as an example. In the AdWords arena, it’s the same thing. You are bidding on keywords to become visible in a search. If somebody is new to an area and is looking for a specific type of denomination, they may go online to see what’s around them. If you’re not visible, you just missed out on a new member perhaps. Hugh: There are a lot of choices in life today, aren’t there? Pipp: There sure are. Most businesses, or organizations if you will, today I find aren’t really aware of how many searches there actually are online for their service or product. It’s the single largest pool that exists of prospective new customers, clients. Those are interchangeable words, even in the nonprofit world. It equates to the same thing. If you have a business or an organization, and you are working in a certain arena, there is more search for that information about that online than there is anywhere else. Hugh: Awesome. John: Hugh, you can relate to this. What happened when you got a yellow page ad? Hugh: People would call me up and say, “I see you have this.” John: They found you. Hugh: That was the go-to place. We actually went to the yellow pages last week to look for some resources for moving. We put out a line that people get $10,000 in AdWords. Talk about that program. I have one of these grants, and I don’t know how in the world I got it. Somebody helped me get it. I am still learning how to work it, but I am spending $10,000 a month. Talk about that program. How do people acquire that grant? Pipp: It’s a terrific program by Google. This is their way of giving back to the community at large here in the United States .it may be available overseas, too; I’m not sure of that. It’s a grant that they offer to any 501(c)3 for $10,000 a month to use any way the organization sees fit. The determination of the success of any advertising campaign is totally up to you. Google is providing that. The only restriction they put on it is that you can’t bid on a keyword that is more than $2. Now depending on the area you live in, larger areas, certain keywords that might fit your organization might be highly competitive, and they would be well in excess of $2. But just as you found, Hugh, if you work with somebody who understands how to dig out the keywords that still fit the proper niche that you are going after, you can find enough keywords to bid on to utilize those dollars. Hugh: I think I have 24,000 keywords in all of the things that are related to us, and we have an average position of 2.5 on a search. Pipp: That is terrific. That is very good. And you are working on a national level, correct? Hugh: I’m working with anybody who speaks English. We got Philippines, Australia, New Zealand. Pipp: There are many organizations who would be able to take the same approach. If it was a local church or synagogue, an organization like that, they might be more defined by a geographic area. But still, the exposure that they can gain from that is just fabulous, and it is a really terrific program that Google has put out there and made available to all the 501(c)3s. Hugh: How do you get it? How do you qualify for it? Pipp: It’s an application process. They just have to verify you are truly a legitimate 501(c)3. Doesn’t matter what you are promoting or what you’re about. We actually offer that service to nonprofits where we will do the application process for them. We don’t charge for that. We are pretty successful. We haven’t had anything not approved so far. Along with that application process, you have to have a campaign that is ready to go. Google sees there is a campaign in place that you are ready to turn on the minute they say yes. John: An AdWords campaign. Pipp: Yes, an AdWords campaign Hugh: You can register for that for free. If you do it on your own, you pay per click. Russell, they just slipped something in there. Did you hear what I hear? He said they do it for free. Pipp: Maybe we shouldn’t have said that, John. What do you think? John: It’s a little too late now, Pipp. You can’t put that one back in the bag. Pipp: I will say this. We don’t manage campaigns for free. I found a lot of people- The application process can be confusing to them. You can’t even begin until you get approved. We have at least been able to figure that out and are willing to do that for anybody. They can manage their own campaigns. When you get into the nitty-gritty of it, as you found, Hugh, you need somebody to help you because it would be difficult for you on your own to find 24,000 keywords. Hugh: Oh my word. And to put them in the right ads in the right places to direct them to the right page to do what we call conversions. Pipp: You have to have landing pages and ad groups and campaigns and this stuff that needs to be done to optimize it. One of the reasons you have 24,000 keywords is you want to utilize all that money and are limited to $2 a click. You have to find a keyword that might only get five searches a month, but you want to make sure you are found when those five people are searching. Hugh: It’s the misspelling of the words, too. People who spell leader wrong just as a typo. Laeder. John, you were going to say something? John: I just said the maximum is $2. It’s not that they are all $2. Hugh: I adjust them down, and sometimes I get the mileage. There is also a quality score. I have some that are 7’s and 8’s, which I understand is pretty hard to do. They rate you on the quality of the word as to where you are driving it. There are some sophisticated tools out there to watch what you’re doing. It’s just amazing. Where do people contact you to let you help them do that and start that conversation? Pipp: They can call me. Our phone number is 813-321-3390. That is our main line here in Tampa. They can go to our website. On the website you can get contact information. The phone number is there of course, and there is an email link to send us an email if you want. They can reach me via email if they like at pipp@si-5.com. Hugh: Si-5.com is the website. That is a very generous offer. It’s not a lot of work. I want to talk about the juxtaposition of SEO and the ads. Those two need to have some synergy. John, you were talking about that if you did the SEO, it would get you more mileage for less money with the AdWords. I’m surprised they didn’t cancel me. I had the grant. It had five or six campaigns going. Now I have several thousand campaigns or ad groups going. Four campaigns. But I found that no matter what I tried, I could not spend more than $300 a month. That is the maximum you spend a day, $332 or $333. I spend that every day now. But I couldn’t figure that out. So I had to get somebody to help me. That is a for-hire thing you can do. I got frustrated because I shouldn’t have been doing this in the first place. I do leadership and culture and strategy really well. I suck at that. Suck is halfway to success. Talk about why you need this if you do SEO. Pipp: It’s the difference between paid search and organic search. Whenever you do a Google search, you bring up a search result page. At the very top, the first three or four listings are going to be the paid ads. The next ten listings below that are what they call the organic or non-paid listings. Each of these listings, paid or unpaid, are the listings that Google believes are the most relevant to the search you have done. John: They are catering to their own customer. I as a Google searcher am a Google customer. They want to try to provide me the most relevant and best options possible so I am happy. Pipp: You are happy and continue to use Google. John: That’s right. Pipp: Why don’t you go ahead and talk about the percentages of where the clicks go, John? John: That is important. if I launch a campaign today, I can bid on an AdWord today, and I can get that AdWord and I can be found for that word today. Organic is a little bit different. That takes a little bit more time, authority, optimization. Google is not going to make that change quickly because again they want to make sure you actually do have good information to provide their customer when they search for a given keyword. That is why it takes time to build that authority for the organic search. What is very interesting is that the difference between the paid search and the organic search is there is about five times more volume for the organic search. That is a big deal. If you are buying AdWords and you are getting traffic, that is great because I can do it today. That is a way to get to the organic search. You can start to get traffic today but realize that over time you will have a lot more to choose from if you are getting the organic search. It just takes time. Hugh: Does Google learn, or does the effectiveness grow over time? I have listened to people talk about how they do Facebook ads. Over the weeks and months, the Facebook ads build a knowledge base and becomes more effective over time. That may or may not be the accurate description, but is there something like that with AdWords? John: The parallel would be- I guess it would be the authority that you gain by having good information and making it available so Google can read it, understand it. Your page is optimized. The information you are providing is relevant. Google will look at all of that. If I have a new page and someone finds me but my information is not very relevant, Google’s customer, the searcher, will leave. Google doesn’t like that. Pipp: I understand your question also relates to Facebook. Facebook has what they call a pixel. They want you to put that pixel on your website. Facebook learns. Facebook’s algorithm learns who clicks on your ads and who your ideal customer is, and they get smarter and smarter at putting your ad in front of people that fit a profile that is more likely to click. AdWords, I don’t believe does that. To be honest with you, my business partner is more knowledgeable than I am on the running of the AdWords campaigns. John: You should clarify that as your other business partner. Pipp: Yes, sorry. My other business partner, who is on vacation with her children right now and her husband. But I don’t believe that the AdWords does that. It’s pretty much up to us as the buyer of AdWords to optimize the campaigns and figure out what is working best. Hugh: My colleague Russell is very active on LinkedIn. I have heard you guys other times talk about authority. Russ does a lot of good stuff on LinkedIn. He has articles, and his description of who he is is very valuable. How does that play into the picture with the Google SEO and the AdWords and the whole package? Pipp: Having an optimized profile on LinkedIn, as well as other social media properties, is all important. Every one of those provides a description of you and your business, a link back to your website from a site that Google sees as high authority. When you can get a link back from a high authority site, some of that authority transfers back, and it helps you build the authority of your website. Those are all part of the mix. They don’t really have much of an effect on your AdWords, but from an SEO standpoint, those are very important elements. Hugh: Russ, did that bring up any questions or comments on your side? Russell: Keywords are important. This program for grants is something I have seen because who couldn’t use $10,000. When I read the language, there is a certain amount of traffic you have to drive. If you don’t do that, they pass it on to people who can use it. The idea of them looking at keeping their own credibility high by giving their users what they need makes perfect sense. Unless somebody has a lot of expertise in that, and I don’t think you have that on your typical nonprofit staff, is it’s a wonderful opportunity, but you have to be able to drive the traffic to keep it going. Pipp: That is correct. Google AdWords is much more complicated to optimize, and it takes some time to optimize a campaign. Usually when you are working with AdWords, you will figure the first three or four months is what you will put in to tweak and figure it out. We are managing a campaign for a chiropractor client. It’s not a big campaign or a huge amount of money, but we took it over because the people who were handling it for them were unhappy with the results they were getting. We have taken it over. We have had it about two months, and it will be another month or two before we get it fine-tuned. I was in my office just now building landing pages because they were sending all this paid traffic to their homepage. In their particular case, if you were looking for a chiropractic solution for back pain, the homepage mentions it, but it doesn’t really talk about it in depth. So it’s less likely to create a conversion or getting a phone call for an appointment than if they were landing on a page that spoke to that particular problem directly. I am in the process of building them landing pages that will help their conversion, and the better conversion you get helps your quality score. Hugh is obviously doing that well if he has some 7’s and 8’s in quality scores. Hugh: I’m not getting the conversions I want, but it has gone up dramatically in the past two months. I am starting to fine-tune it. I had some AdWords that weren’t relevant, which were bringing in some people who weren’t the right people. I wanted to come back to that piece. We want to bring the people that can find words, and we can trick them into coming, but if it’s not what they want, they will leave within a second or two. So we just wasted the money. Pipp: Then Google dings you and realizes that ad is not working. Regardless of what you are bidding, they drop you down in position. With AdWords, even if there are three or four ads at the top of the page, even if they are all bidding the same thing, if they all have the same quality score, Google rotates those around. As time goes by and one or two gain more traction because they have a higher quality score—they are getting a better click rate, even though it’s the same price or a little lower price—Google will show them ahead of the other ads. They want people to have a good experience so they keep using them. Like John said, the person doing the searching is the customer that Google is trying to please. Hugh: That’s a really important area to understand. I’m a pretty smart guy, but it’s taken me a while to wrap my head around this. I am learning it so I can bring on somebody and have them manage it. There are lots of charities doing social media, and they don’t do themselves any favors. There are lots of charities who put up pretty websites. Propeller Head makes them something nice. They say you have all these hits. I think I shared this with you, but it’s said that hits are how idiots attract success. It really doesn’t matter who comes. Hits is every time you download an image or a page or something, so you can have a lot of hits with nothing. It’s really coming back to this what do people do, the conversions, that matters. Let’s go into some of the things you know people need to learn. When you put up a webpage or site, Google looks at everything. How does this organic SEO work? John: That’s where it starts. The very first thing is that Google is a computer. It needs to make sense to Google. You can’t infer things. It has to be written and optimized such that Google can read it and understand exactly what you do, what you’re promoting, what information you’re providing. We want to make sure you have optimized it so Google can understand it. Then you want to start to look for ways to continue to build that authority. We mentioned having links back from high authority sites so Google realizes, “Oh, okay. This site thinks that they are providing the right information about this given subject.” But the big thing is it does start on the page. We call it on-page SEO. It needs to have the right information in the right format and make sense for Google. Hugh: Go back to this authority site thing. Talk a little bit more about that. Pipp: The sites that you see in organic search on the results page—those are the sites that Google feels are the most relevant, which to them means they feel they have the highest authority on that subject. Authority is predominantly gained in a number of ways, but one of the biggest is links from other sites. It might be social media sites you have. It might be other people linking to your information. Maybe you wrote an article or a blog post, and other people pick up that blog post and repost it on their Facebook page or their own blog. Through that, there is a link back to your site from another site that has relevant information. It takes time. That is why John was talking about how SEO takes time. You can buy a paid ad and be at the top of the search for a given keyword tomorrow. But with SEO, it takes time to build that authority, and it takes time for Google to trust your site. A brand new site comes up, and no matter how good your information is, it can take months for those links to build and for Google to gain the confidence and trust that you are the right one to show for search results for that given keyword. Hugh: How do these two work together, the organic SEO and the AdWords? Is there a negative dynamic we can create that cancels each other out? Pipp: No, there is nothing negative about it. The numbers are interesting. Paid search gets about 18-20% of clicks on a page. Organic gets the rest. Hugh: Whoa. 18% is paid search? Pipp: 18-20. It can be different in different niches, but that is the average. Of all the ads out there, somebody searches for a new plumber. They say “My toilet is leaking and I need a plumber,” so they search for that. There will be ads at the top of the page. Those ads will get 18 out of 100 clicks. The organic listings will get the rest with the top three getting the lion’s share. That is what SEO is. Our job is to build that authority and get an organization’s site ranked into those top three to five positions. The reason I say three to five is in many niches, there are directory-type sites that will get into that top five, and they are not direct links. Customers will avoid those and go directly to a business because they want a solution to their problem. Hugh: Yeah. People are looking for things. You can go to Analytics and other tools like that to figure out what people are putting in, can’t you? Pipp: Analytics will tell you what someone typed in in order to find you. That is certainly a great tool. Anyone who has a website should sign up and get Google Analytics. It’s a free service from Google. They offer great tutorials on learning how to digest the data. Hugh: That would be a good way to research what people are looking for, is that true? Pipp: It would be, except you don’t really have access. Google has a Keyword tool built into AdWords where you can type in a keyword and they will give you a range of how much search there is for those. Or they might come back and show no search even if there is some. It may be low, but there is some. I have a friend who often says, “It’s great how much money I’ve made from search terms that Google shows there is no search for.” Anyway. But there are new searches all the time. Google says a third of the searches they see every month are searches done in a particular manner that they have never seen before. That is constantly changing. Hugh: Give me that statistic again. Pipp: A third of all the searches that Google sees every month are done a little differently than they have ever seen before. Hugh: I thought that’s what you said. That’s remarkable. Pipp: It is. I know. John: We can’t use another term like that. I don’t think Hugh can stand it. We can’t bring him a new statistic that is blowing his mind. Hugh: That’s amazing. Russell: At this rate, his hair will start turning gray. John: It will light on fire. Russell: You have to ease up on him. Hugh: At least I got hair. Ha! Russell: This is the secret to not having any gray. You cut it all off. Hugh: Last week, we had an interview with Les Brown, and Les talks about using the mascara on his gray. He said his gray hair doesn’t last very long. He keeps looking fresh with that look. Guys, this is fascinating stuff. People put up websites, and they wonder why nobody comes. They really do stupid things on social media. It’s really social. How do people learn about this? I think we should create an academy and have a membership for people who are in charitable work to learn how to do these things. Like Russ said, they have a small staff and not a lot of money. If they started getting traffic and people found them and they raised the donor base- and actually if donors know what you’re doing, the impact you’re having, they will continue to be donors and spread the word. There is no negative aspect to tooting your horn and letting people know about it. Come back to some of my crazy ideas here. Pipp: That’s right. What you and I have talked about before is how do you create more of a presence in social media? You have the main social media sites, like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, maybe Pinterest, Google+. How do you put out information on a regular basis? There are a couple of tools that make it easier for you to do that. One is Buffer. Buffer has the ability to post and link articles to the various social media accounts you have. There is another company called Quuu. They are an aggregator of online articles. You will probably find articles in almost any niche or subject you can think of. You can get an account for free for both of these. On the free account, you are limited to how many posts you can do and how many social media accounts you can link to, but you can link Buffer with Quuu and pick like four or five different subjects and link two articles a day to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Every single day. Those are what they call curated content. Somebody else wrote it, it’s in your niche, and you post it as interesting information for people who are interested in your niche and what you do. But I also recommend to people they need to be doing some original content of their own. If you have these other services, you don’t have to write something every day or two to three times a week. You can do something original a couple times a month, but there is still a flow of information coming out. That creates engagement. You will build Twitter Followers, Facebook likes, and additional connections on LinkedIn all from having information that flows. John: You asked one other question, Hugh. Pipp and I spend a lot of time figuring this out. This is way full-time. There are some basic things that can be done to give your site more visibility, just some real basic things. The biggest thing Pipp said is make sure that you have a LinkedIn account, a Facebook business account or an account that is to your ministry or 501(c)3, a Twitter account, and an Instagram account, and have those connected to your website. That will sure help. You want to make sure that you have accurate information on all those places. You don’t want to confuse Google because that’s not good. You want to make sure information is accurate across platforms. Then when you want to get really serious on one of these areas, it’s probably a good idea to hire somebody who spends a lot of time trying to figure it out. It changes all the time. We use the phrase that Google has all the gold and they make all the rules. We just have to live with those. Hugh: The golden rule. John: To have an academy would be a great thing. It wouldn’t be a free academy, and it wouldn’t be part-time. Hugh: No. I was throwing out an idea. If anybody is listening and interested, we could play with it. John: It’s a great idea. Hugh: We could do the same thing with a group of people and make it a more level playing field and impact more people and have greater results. Talk about how Google changes things. They are sneaky about it. A logarithm, is that what it is? Pipp: Their algorithm, yeah. They have made a lot of changes just in the past couple of years. They have two search algorithms. One is for desktop search, and one is for mobile search. They are separate. They announced about a year and a half ago, or maybe two years ago, that they were going to put more priority on mobile search algorithm, meaning that if you were ranking on page one but your site wasn’t mobile-friendly, because it wasn’t, the mobile-friendly aspect was going to become much more important to the mobile-search algorithm, and you could lose ranking on a mobile search even if you are ranked highly on a desktop search. That was a couple years ago. Then a few months back, they announced that the mobile search algorithm in 2018 was going to be the predominant factor to ranking in the search engines period. John: And the reason for that? Pipp: Well more than half of all search is mobile. That is mostly Smartphones, but that also includes tablets. Hugh: Amazing. Russ, you have been taking this in. I think we should come up with a hard question for these guys. Let’s stump our guests. Russell: How do you stop these guys from making all of these changes? John: No, it’s a great question. But it goes back to that you have to look at it from their standpoint. They are trying to provide the best product for you and I, the guy who is searching. They are going to work really hard to get into our brains and to put that into their brain to give us the searcher the best result. What we have to be doing as SEO experts is understanding Google and where they are going and then making sure that our clients are providing relevant information for those search terms. It has to be. Otherwise, we are going to mistakenly send somebody to a client’s site, and the Google customer is not going to be happy, which is going to drop them in ranking. Russell: This is how they made Yahoo and other people disappear in the first place. John: They worked really hard at it to provide the best quality product for their client. Pipp: And they make changes all the time. They make changes to their algorithm all the time. The nice part of it is we are actually members of a very large SEO mastermind group that is worldwide in scope. Some of our peers are really smart, and they- actually before Google makes changes, they file patents. They get copies of the new patents that are filed and waiting to be approved and read it. We generally have a pretty good idea of where things are headed. Google does their best to obfuscate that, but they have to have the information in there so the guys in the patent office can say okay. We have some smart colleagues that read that stuff, figure that out, and give us a good idea of where Google is going six months or a year from now. Hugh: Part of this change is necessary. People used to pack in the keywords. Then people used to go out and do these fictitious sites with all these backlinks. There were thousands of them, and Google got smart to that. Pipp: No matter what the rules that Google comes up with, there will always be somebody who figures out a way around it. Once they figure that out, Google will figure out that they did that, and they will change the rules again. But there are some basic things. We ourselves in our company follow industry-best practice. We don’t do any blackhat. In the SEO world, blackhat is things you know you shouldn’t do, but you do them anyway hoping for a good result and hoping not to get caught. That was standard practice, even five years ago. But the things that a lot of people did and we were doing five years ago, if we did them today, they would get us penalized. Still one of the biggest things I see for people who try to do SEO on their own is they over-optimize their websites in terms of keywords. Let’s say they have 600 words of content on their homepage. They will put a keyword in there like 40 times. Google needs it there once or twice and they know what you’re about. When you start putting it in 20-40 times, you get over-optimized. You may see yourself move up in the ranking. You may even get to the bottom or middle of page two, but you won’t get further. Hugh: Wow. Pipp: it’s almost like they give you hope. I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, and boom, you hit the ceiling. You’re on page two where nobody can find you. Hugh: When you get penalized, do you stay there, or is there any way to get out of that? Pipp: You can change it. I have had a client this last year who after I had done some SEO work and were moving up nicely, he went in on his own and decided to rewrite one of the pages he wanted to rank for, and he put the keyword in there like 42 times. Then we started dropping back. I was trying to figure out why, and he happened to mention to me that he went in and changed that page. I went in and copied all the information and highlighted all the places he had done that, saying, “This needs to get fixed.” I fixed it. And we shot right back up to page one. It took a little while. When I say “shot right up,” that might have taken two or three months, but that is something that still a lot of people do. I find particularly those who try to do SEO on their own, they are looking at old information and don’t really have the resources to stay abreast of what is working today and what current best practices are. Hugh: Russ, did you have more to that question? Russell: It gets back to that notion of working within your wheelhouse and not trying to do things that you’re not good at. I definitely don’t know a lot about SEO, but I do write. What I have started doing is looking at the principles of copywriting and studying that because that is what I can do on my own. I definitely need to hire someone- I have a guy working on my website who knows a lot more of this stuff than I do. He is reoptimizing the site, but in order to help myself, I have started looking at copywriting. I put together a series on donors that talks about the information you have to have. You have to know your audience in order to get some traction. That is important. What your content contains is where the keywords are probably going to be found. Hugh: Absolutely. Good points. We are on the downside of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour because that’s a lot of time and people want to get some good content. Think about some stuff we haven’t talked about, guys. What is a thought or challenge or tip you want to leave with people? Let’s go back to the electronic media. If all of this stuff, Russ and I work with organizations to build out their strategy. We are trying to hunt and peck in the dark rather than having a synergistic plan. I wouldn’t dare get in front of an orchestra or a choir and try to direct without having a piece of music because people are all over the place. We have to have some glue to hold us together, and then people can become engaged. With that, we are very clear on what it is we offer, who it is we offer it to, the value of our service, and the impact. That gives you guys something to work around and to use your magic to bring that constituency to the site and actually do something. If I have heard you correctly, part of it is identifying the trends, finding what it is people are looking for, but also attracting the right people. On the other side, you slipped right by this, you are creating a landing page, and the landing page has to convert. It has something interesting so people don’t leave in .2 seconds, so they engage with you and learn something and want to be part of your tribe, donate, or be a part of your volunteer pool. There is a whole synergy in this thing. Let me throw it to you. Like the last time we talked, my brain is firing on many cylinders that I’m not doing right. I can’t handle much more of this, but I have a list of things to do. You will be getting a call from me about my new site. Let me throw it to John and then Pipp. As a departing thought and comment, sum up the things you wish people would do, and remind them of where they can go to find out. You have a survey or something on the site, so talk about that, too. John: We have a form that they can go through. What is the name of that form, Pipp? Pipp: Strategy form. John: We have a strategy form they can go through on the site. It leads them to give us information so we can get back to them with some knowledge of what they are trying to do. I am going to step back and go back to what Russell said. Stand in your wheelhouse. Companies that come to us, we are going to have to make the assumption that they are good at what they do. Pipp and I have a really wide range of backgrounds. Pipp has owned several businesses; I have owned several businesses. Sometimes we get more involved than we should in the whole process. But what we look to do is be the SEO expert. What we look for is our clients to bring to us “This is what I do, this is who searches for us, and this is how they search for us. Put me on page one for these three key search terms.” That is what we do. We go after those search terms. Sometimes we get deeper into the weeds than that. That is what we primarily do. Pipp: Once they have filled out our strategy form, we then produce an eight-minute video analysis where we look at their website, we look at the competition, the strength of the competition, and then tell them the opportunity that is there. If you rank for this, this is how many searches there are, this is a conservative estimate you could expect as far as visitors, and based upon a conservative conversion rate, how much that traffic would be worth to you. We like to show them how big the opportunity they are missing out on is. The other thing I was going to say in closing is something you and I have talked about before, Hugh. We touched a little bit on conversions, and we haven’t talked about video on this call. Video can be a good way to help conversions on your site, on your landing pages. If you can do a short video that deals with your business, that topic of the landing page, usually less than two minutes on your page can be a tremendous help. People like to know who they are potentially going to get involved with. You do a video that is engaging, you look at the person who is watching, you talk to them directly. You want to talk to that single person. You can do that. As I told you once before, I have an attorney client that we had ranked, and he was getting clicks to this website but not getting the conversion. We put a short video on his site, and overnight, that video tripled or quadrupled his phone calls in a week for his business. It was unbelievable how much of a difference it made. Hugh: You guys aren’t a one-trick pony. You have a whole lot of different programs and knowledge base and wisdom. That is quite remarkable. Pipp: I think that’s one of our strengths. We have gray hair, too. At least I do. I’m not sure John does. We have done a lot of things. We generally have the ability to understand what they’re doing fairly quickly and obviously work within our expertise, which is SEO and digital media. Oftentimes, we can make suggestions to other things you could be doing that could be helpful. Hugh: Thank you for jumping in at the last minute and being so gracious to share all of this information (we had a cancellation tonight). You do a lot of upfront service to people. That is a gift. Russell, thank you for being here again and asking really good questions. Russell has made some notes of the profound statements that came out of your mouth. Russell: There is one thing I’d like to sneak in before we leave. The service these guys provide is superior, premium. The thing I like about what I see in their website is when they go in there, they define some parameters. If your business or organization is at a certain point, we can help you. If you’re not at that place, then we don’t want to offer you something that will not benefit you. That is integrity on steroids, and I love it. Hugh: Russ listens and observes and comes up with some profound statements. John Zentmeyer and Pipp Patten, thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience tonight. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 1 2020 Hugh Ballou d Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months. Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.     Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nonprofit Marketing with Geo Ropert Interview Transcript   Hugh Ballou: This is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis co-hosting this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Hello, Russ. Russell Dennis: Good happy Halloween. Good to see you both. Hugh: As we are recording this, it is Halloween in 2017. You might be listening to this in another century. We are creating episodes for posterity. Russ, we have been on this journey for quite a while. Thank you for hanging in there and being my co-host. Russell: It’s a pleasure. I meet so many interesting people, like Geo, who is here to talk to us today about marketing. And a lot of nonprofits don’t think they have to do that, but you have to get your message out. Hugh: You spoiled the surprise. We were going to surprise them. Geo Ropert: I might as well hang up now. Hugh: Geo Ropert, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Geo: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. I am certainly honored that you asked me to join you, and I am really looking forward to this today. Hugh: I looked at your resume, and you have been holding out on me. You haven’t told me all that good stuff. We generally start out asking people to talk about themselves. In a little snapshot, the things that are related to PR and marketing. Then after you talk about yourself, what’s your background in this really complicated, for those of us who don’t know it, what’s your background and what’s gotten you here? After you do that, distinguish between PR and marketing. I know people confuse marketing and sales, but they also confuse PR and marketing. They don’t know where sales fits. If you can sort that out. But first, give us a snapshot about Geo. Geo: I have 20+ years in the public relations and integrated marketing community. We’ll talk about that as you had asked. I am accredited in public relations, which means I hold a national certification that less than 10% of PR professionals throughout the country have. I have won awards for my work, and I have been- It really is my passion. I love to communicate. I love to help businesses and organizations share their message across platforms, everything from traditional to new digital and social. I work especially with businesses and nonprofits to really help them be able to tell their story and for them to be the ones that people pay attention to when they speak, when they produce content, when they get out there to their audiences. I have worked in the nonprofit field. I have probably a little more than 10 years working exclusively for nonprofits, both 501(c)3 and 501(c)6 organizations, so I’ve spent a lot of time really in the trenches with those communities and have learned a lot and have really been able to translate that knowledge to help out organizations, especially nonprofits. That is where my passion lies: helping those folks be able to engage their audiences and gain the support and the resources they need so that they can do the good work that they do. If you want to talk about public relations and marketing, while they are similar, they are very different in the sense that public relations really has to deal with the side of a business that is the brand. It’s the storytelling, it’s the reputation-building, it’s the work that is done to create buzz, if you will, to create information and knowledge. It’s meant to educate and inform audiences so that they can understand what a business is, what they stand for, their mission, their vision, their values, their culture—all those things are public relations. Marketing, on the other side, is a staff function that is really about the promotion of products and services that the company has. If you are talking about selling widgets or if you are talking about having your organization that helps feed hungry children or protects kids from danger, these are the things that marketing does. It’s getting out the word on those products and services. They work together intimately, but in most cases, people see that as different. I’ve been working in the realm where my belief is the industry has been changing to more or less meld those two together because it really is about communication, and the way we communicate today really blurs the lines sometimes. It is effective in both of its aspects. Hugh: Actually, you need to have a good public image or your marketing won’t be helpful. Geo: If your reputation is shot, you could have the best products in the world, but nobody will buy them. Hugh: People also confuse sales and marketing. Sales is another animal. Do you want to give us a sound bite about what’s different about sales? Geo: Sales is the process that marketing is geared to do, to make people aware of what those products and services are, the benefits they have for them. Then sales is the close. That is where all the process of engaging interesting, getting clients to pay attention and come to your website or make that phone call to your business, everything then is left to the folks in sales to close that deal. Hugh: We are going to focus on the marketing piece. We have had other experts on this series over the years. Cheryl Snapp Conner owns a large PR agency in Salt Lake City; she was here several months ago and is very eloquent about her field of PR, doing press releases and getting that image out there. The niche that is marketing, that’s moving people toward understanding why they need goods and services—charities aren’t in business for selling things. I’m using the word “charity” instead of “nonprofit” for this conversation. Why would a charity need even think about marketing? Geo: Because there are—let’s see how many there are—over a million public charities in the United States alone. Those are a lot of voices out there, each vying for the attention. Hugh: Four million. 501 somethings. Churches and government. There are a lot of variances. Geo: I’m sorry. I had a million public charities. You’re right about the four million. Everyone is clamoring for the attention, the pocketbooks of folks who can support their causes. As much as each of them are involved in very important and very worthwhile endeavors, there is a limited pie out there of funds and resources that are available. The ones who can tell their story the best, who can communicate what their audience is most effectively, are the ones who are going to succeed and be able to advance their causes where the others are basically struggling. I think we see more of the majority struggling than those we do being successful. Hugh: Absolutely. There is a fallacy out there, and it is exposed in Dan Pallotta’s TED Talk, The way we think about charity is dead wrong, and he has a book to follow that up. The TED Talk says the fallacy is that nonprofits, he says charities, cannot spend money on marketing. That is taboo. I believe- Russell, we don’t agree with that, do we? Russell: I disagree completely because a lot of people in nonprofits, especially if you are talking about a social worker or teacher, have difficulty talking about the value that their organization provides. It’s a value proposition. A lot of people look at it as bragging when in fact it’s just telling people that you are doing good work. Marketing is important. A thought just crossed my mind. I came up with a question because I know that reputation management and getting the word out there about what you’re doing are separate but melded together. I was wondering what Geo thought is the right balance between PR and marketing. Geo: I think if you are looking for a balance, you really want to integrate them both effectively. I don’t think you put one on top of the other in the sense that of course you have to have your brand identity established and visible and strong. People need to recognize it and know what you do, who you are, what you stand for, and what you do to benefit the community. That really is the telling of the story if you want to in PR. In marketing, it’s telling people exactly what you do, why it’s important that they support your cause. You say, “Well, we don’t have products or services.” Most do. They have some type of service. They provide some type, whether that be support or education or advocacy. All of those things really fall into the marketing side of it. What a lot of nonprofits- You’re right. They talk about marketing and PR and spending money on it as a taboo thing, that it’s not something they should do. I agree. It is completely the wrong idea to have because unless you are spending money on your voice and getting your message across to people, you are going to be one of the majority that are having a huge amount of trouble keeping your funding sources alive, keeping your organization alive. That is one of the problems I see. What I also see is that many nonprofits- I can’t tell you how many times a month I get approached by organizations that want to get support, but they are not able or willing to pay for it. They expect to have it for free, pro bono services. While I do believe in helping my community and I support an organization that I work with every year, sometimes intensely, unfortunately I have bills to pay. I have to be able to afford to keep the business running. Getting them to understand the value of PR and marketing, and marketing especially, is sometimes the hardest thing to do. Once they can really grasp that, and it comes from the leadership down, the executives, the board of directors, once they can understand that you put money into marketing is going to have a return on that investment and is going to grow the donor base, it’s going to grow the support base, and they can see that, then it starts to make sense to them, and they are more willing to invest in actual professional services and, if not, investing in the tools and software that are able to accomplish that. Hugh: Geo, what’s an appropriate amount as far as a percentage? Is there any kind of benchmark? You mention something that triggered this. We use the word “nonprofit,” and we go into this scarcity thinking that we can’t pay for anything. We can’t pay good salaries, we can’t pay for services, we can’t allot money to marketing, we can’t spend money talking about the goods and services, the good that we do, the impact. That is what is going to drive sales. Sales is donations. Sales is for churches, synagogues, it’s evangelism. It’s growing your numbers in the 501(c)6s, the membership organizations. Why is it important? What is the impact of our work? We are telling a story. Go back to this. You started exploring about stories a while ago. Where does that fit? There is two questions in here. How do you figure out what’s an appropriate amount to designate in your budget to marketing? What kind of information do you- You can’t tell people everything, so you have a limited budget. If you grow the revenue, then you can grow that marketing budget in tandem with that. How do you decide what to market? How much to spend, and what is the story you are going to tell? Geo: According to the numbers I’ve seen out there, there was almost $400 billion given to charities last year alone. Of that, we would expect, as a business does, to spend a minimum of 10% at least on the marketing efforts. You could figure that is about $39 billion that would go out to help communicate that story, that message. That can fluctuate anywhere from on the low end to 5% on the high end to- Some of them are spending up to 15% if you look at charitable organizations and the nonprofit organizations, the 501(c)6s. What they do, the good ones, is they tell a consistent story that resonates. They have a mission. They focus on the mission in their campaigns, in their public relations and in their marketing campaigns, with a singular, strong message. You could have an organization. Maybe you do three or four different things, but your main mission needs to be conveyed and clear. What happens is oftentimes people say, Well, we do this, we do that, we help these folks, we help those folks. It confuses the message. There are millions of messages going out every day that we are being bombarded with. If a message from an organization comes across in three or four different ways, how are we going to be able to focus on that? It takes a minimum of seven times for somebody to see your name to recognize it, to see your message and recognize it. Unless they see that message seven times, maybe in a slightly altered way but still the same consistent message, the chances of traction are slim to none. Hugh: I have to think about that. What do you think, Russ? Russell: In terms of income, if people are spending money, they are going to want to know what I am getting back for this. How important is it to show a return on generating income? Is there a typical amount for nonprofits in terms of looking at return on investment with those dollars that they invest? Geo: I think what you do is you look at the 5-15% of your annual revenue as a baseline maybe to say, Okay, this is where we are going to start. What happens in nonprofits is they base their marketing revenue on those numbers, and if the numbers go down, so do their marketing efforts. Where I believe that you need to be consistent and strong and you have to have a budget set aside. It’s not overhead to me. It really isn’t considered an overhead expense like executive salaries and rent and those kinds of things. It is an expense that helps to generate revenue. If revenues start to decline and you cut way back on your marketing dollars, you might as well just expect those numbers continue to decline. Whereas I think good marketers and executives who understand their value of effective marketing are more apt to say, Okay, let’s put in a substantial and usable amount of revenue into our marketing efforts. If we continue to do that and our mission continues to be strong and delivered across the right platforms, we are going to grow our revenue, we are going to grow our support, we are going to get the things we need to get. Hugh: I saw some evidence—Russ, that’s a good question—during the last so-called recession that businesses cut way back on their marketing budgets, but the few that didn’t kept market share and actually increased market share during that recession. Russ, I’m sorry, I interrupted you there. Russell: Just in your reply there, you hit on what I call the magic dirty buzz word, and that is overhead. People are in the frame of mind that anything that you spend beyond the actual delivery of those services is overhead and that you got to put the squeeze on that. You can’t have a huge overhead. Marketing and PR is important. When a corporation goes out and spends money on that, they applaud them. They go out and hire superstar marketing people and superstar executives to run the organization. They pay them good salaries, but they draw in huge amounts of money. Nobody ever questions that because they can see that value. When a nonprofit or social profit tries to do that, it becomes taboo. It leads to what they call overhead. I don’t think they are doing this, that marketing and PR among other things and fundraising are bad ways to spend that money. You have to have a good structure to have a good solid program. When it comes to marketing and PR with nonprofits, what are the biggest challenges that you see nonprofits having when it comes to actually taking it up, doing it, and doing it well? Geo: The thing I see is the lack of knowledge, the lack of experience, to do that job. Oftentimes, a lot of nonprofits will say, You are the reception today, and this afternoon, you are going to be our chief marketing officer. Very little knowledge of what it entails. This is a profession. This is something that people go to school for to get educated. Some of us have spent many hours a week, let alone throughout the year, honing our skills, growing our education to do that. That is one of the things. Another standing is the available vehicles to us for marketing. There are so many, but they have to be selectively chosen based on the type of audience that you have, the type of response that you want to get, and also basically the areas that you want to focus your attentions on. It’s one of those things where so often I see, and people have sat down with some folks in the last couple of weeks and they said, “Well, we want to market our agency. We want to market our organization.” I said, “What’s your budget?” “We don’t have one.” “Good luck.” As much as you can get something, you can get free press donated. Media is great about supporting causes, local newspapers, publications, digital sites that will do that, but you still got to pay for things like Facebook advertising, social media advertising. You have to pay for websites and development and maintenance of those. There are costs to the things that you print and your direct mail costs. If everybody would give it away, it’s wonderful, but I am also reminded that you get what you pay for. If you think you are going to get something free from these people, they will get it to you when they get it to you. They may not be there. They are probably not as deeply invested as somebody whom you pay, even if it is a modicum of money to at least value their services, their expertise. That is what I try to push people to understand. Spend a little money, and you can make a lot of money. Hugh: It’s not really cost; it’s an investment. Geo: Absolutely. Hugh: Going back to Russ’s question on ROI, we have the old- There is another way that comes up here: advertising. Is advertising part of marketing? Geo: Yes, advertising is one of the vehicles we use to market. If you are going to spend money on advertising, that is part of your marketing budget. Return on investment, that is something that you want to set up with the organization. I think that’s part of the goal-setting strategy for any organization is: Okay, what are your revenue or support goals that we want to have this year? Then back those numbers out and say, Okay, we believe that we’re going to raise $3 million this year. We are going to spend $300,000 of that in marketing and PR services and software and vehicles and print and digital and creative costs and those kinds of things. It’s very clear. An organization that has a track record can easily look at their data and say, Okay, we spent this amount of money on Facebook this year, and that got us the best return on our investment. We went over to Instagram or YouTube, and those didn’t necessarily perform as well. We will allocate our resources where they work best. There are so many tools out there right now to be able to gauge what your efforts are doing. They are very measurable. We rely on them now. We can’t just walk into a client and say, “We have an ad or an article in your paper. It has a circulation of 200,000. We multiply that by 1.5, and that is your average viewer.” No, now we can actually measure who sees the ad, who responds to it, who interacts with it, and we can trace them all the way from initial interest through that final check being written or that volunteer sign-up being taken care of. Hugh: That’s really good. One of our sponsors at SynerVision is the company that prints our magazine Nonprofit Professional Performance, Wordsprint. Bill Gilmer has been on this show and on a panel that we had on PR a while back. His research is in the area of direct mail because he is a print house and a mail house. His statistics are very profound about when people get something in their hand. His research says it’s 30% the message, 30% the person, 30% a regular rhythm, and only 10% the appearance. He has years of documentation. The donations don’t only remain consistent with the donors, but they go up because people understand the impact of their money, the return on life, ROL. Their return on their investment is the return on people’s lives, the impact. He calls that top of mind marketing. What does that term mean to you? He backs it up with an email. Joe, you got a magazine yesterday, did you look on page four? That doubles the open rate. His research almost without exception is that the donors remain engaged and remain donors because we have done more than ask for money. We have told them the impact of the work. That is part of your message in PR and marketing. Go back to top of mind marketing. Are there other ways besides this really valuable way? That is Wordsprint.com. For more information, you can go there. Geo, top of mind marketing, what is that, and what are other ways you can do that? Geo: Hugh, you mentioned one of the key things. People say direct mail and print advertising is dead. It is not. It is still one of the most effective ways to communicate, especially in the fundraising side for charitable organizations. Everybody has to go to their mailbox. Mail arrives every day. They look at that mail, and when that mail catches their eye, it is more likely to stay on the counter or on the table. It’s whereas our digital information that we share comes and goes in the blink of an eye. Unless you’re consistently putting that message out across the platforms that are available, they are great, and they do an enormously good job getting attention. Again, it’s fleeting. I am a big believer, especially in getting messages across that people will read the direct mail, look at it, remember it. It’s that visual imprint. It is great. What I always look at is a mix of marketing materials and methods in order to get the point across and to enforce it. If you see in the mail, and the next thing you know you have it on your website or you are looking on Facebook or one of your other social media sites and you see that message repeated again, that’s seven times. How many times do you see it before it finally clicks and you say to yourself, “That is an organization I want to support?” You are absolutely right on sharing the value of their investment. What is that return to them? You can do it visually so much more easily than any way, shape, or form when you have it right there in front of you. You have pictures and stories and words that convey that mission and vision. Hugh: I am going to toss it to Russ. He is the one who asks the really hard questions. Russ’s area, one of his areas of brilliance, is helping charities think about their funding options, how they get funded. Russ, relate it to what he was just bringing up and what we have been talking about. There is a relationship to getting more donors, keeping donors, raising donations through what we are talking about. I am going to toss it to you for some comments and questions if you will. Russell: I think this is part of what comes in when it comes to the fear of how much you spend. There are so many different channels out there that people are focused about which ones to use. The answer to that is it really depends on where your audience is. At my age, they like getting stuff in the mail; they can hold onto it. But if you are reaching out to younger people, they may be in social media, they may be on websites, they could be anywhere. I think if you tailored a channel to where your donors are coming from, you meet them where they are. It takes a little bit of homework to figure that out, but at that point, you can really target your dollars to where you want them to go. That is where people get overwhelmed. I think they should be working from their strengths and whatever works best. That may be direct mail and Facebook for some organizations; it may be Instagram and email if they have a younger audience. Talk a little bit about how you gauge that and how you help nonprofits figure out what the best mediums are for them. Geo: There is a lot of data out there on the demographics of every person on Earth right now. I like to say that with the analytics and data we have, we know what coffee you drink, when you wake up in the morning, what color pajamas you have, and what car you are driving to work. It’s all there. We have become a very sharing society that we basically give it away and let people know who we are, what we do, what we like, and what we don’t like. You were asking about what works. There is a 2016 Content Marketing Institute report on the nonprofits in America. Believe it or not, in-person events are still the largest and most effective way for nonprofits to get their message across and to gain supporters. That personal one-on-one touch-and-feel that people have in a personal interaction is still the most important, followed by illustrations and photos, e-newsletters, videos, social media content (interesting that it only ranks fifth out of the most effective tactics) followed up by case studies and those kinds of things, a lot of data and information and background information that people look for. It really is imperative that you have someone who understands how to read demographics, how to interpret those, and be able to take those and say, Okay, our group from 35-54 is mainly on this type of media or reads this type of publication or attends these functions. All of those have to be wrapped up. You have to get a real good understanding of who your audience is. That is the only way you are going to effectively market and spend your money. Again, you can throw that wide net out and put it out in a newspaper. It may have a circulation of 200,000, but only less than 1% of those people could be target audiences for you. You just wasted 99% of your budget right there to reach the 1% that is actually going to care. Russell: There is a lot of data out there on that. It is really easy to get lost in the weeds. What would you say are the most effective marketing strategies organizations can use to grow their share of that donor base or other supporters like volunteers or board members or advisors? Geo: Understand your market. Know what appeals to them. Know what their hot buttons are. Where do they have their most care? In business, we talk about the citizen brand, where you create the culture and a mission and a vision that reflects your audience. That is becoming an interesting thing to follow in the way that all organizations are operating is to say to their people: What is important to you? That is important to us. It really helps to create a stronger bond because people today want to know what is in it for me. How are you going to make my world better through your work? Even in a charitable organization, they are still saying that. How are you going to save the animals or save the rainforest, or how are you going to protect abused and neglected children? What is your culture going to do that is going to get me to want to write that check or volunteer my time and efforts? Russell: Those are brilliant reasons for reaching out repeatedly because you don’t always have to have an ask. You can ask questions and find out what is important to them. You can take that language and recycle it and return it back to them in their solution. Geo: Exactly. The three important things to do when you are communicating, especially in the public relations realm, is to inform, educate, and entertain. You are able to do all of those things even with a charitable organization because you inform them of your mission, you educate them and show them what their results are of their support, and it is okay to entertain, too, because not every message has to be, We are in a terrible situation. Our clients are destitute. Our planet is falling apart, whatever that may be. It’s also okay to take a lighter side, show how the organization reaches out in the community, show what some of the folks do in their daily lives, show behind the scenes of what this organization does in their daily work. Create that. Again, you want to create that personal feeling. You want the person who you are targeting to feel like those are the same people that I am, and I want to be with them. All three of those, if they are done properly and in the right percentages, you have an extremely effective message platform that works. Russell: Live videos from your events where you see people having a good time. What could be more fun? People can say, “Hey, I want to go to the next party these guys throw.” Geo: Video is hands-down the most important thing that people see nowadays. It has the largest effect. As I am sure is well-known, we have less of an attention span than a goldfish of less than eight seconds. Text doesn’t do it. Photos are okay. But you put something on video, and that’s why Instagram is growing and Facebook is such a volume. Facebook Live is the go-to platform for people to put their messages out there and all the video capabilities that Facebook and YouTube and Vimeo and theses platforms have. They have realized the importance that video has in marketing and public relations efforts. Hugh: So there is a lot of dynamics that come to mind. Russ, we have interviewed several people on this topic. It’s like the quote Williams said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to only one person.” We can take marketing/PR and substitute it in there. I am hearing some different things. What about you, Russ? Russell: Every time I talk to somebody about this, I learn new stuff. There is a lot to grasp. There is a lot of approaches. Like anything else, different people resonate with different people at a different level. Hugh: I am sorry to interrupt you, but there is so much to cover that we can’t just cover it in one podcast. The other people had really valuable stuff; you’re not just contradicting them. You are filling in some of the cracks that we don’t have time to deal with. Russ asked earlier how we measure the effectiveness of your campaign. I had somebody we’re talking about. I wanted to introduce them to Bill Gilmer for this direct mail piece, which he is so successful at. They said, “Oh, I tried that last year, and it didn’t work.” I said, “You went to the gym one day and that didn’t work, either?” I stole that from Bill. Bill says flat-out, “You have to do this for two years four times a year in order to see tangible results.” We get in there and want to see success overnight. That is not reasonable, isn’t it? Geo: No, it isn’t. When we sit down with a client, I tell them that it’s going to take us six months to be able to honestly make an impact in what we’re going to be doing for you. We need six months’ minimum. A year is what we really like. Those efforts are going to take time to gather steam. Developing and distributing content takes time to get it out there, to use it in all its various forms. We are very clear. We can measure on a daily, weekly basis everything that you want to know. We can tell you what’s happening, but we can’t tell trends until we are able to see some data come in. I just started with a client, and we are doing Google AdWords. I think we’re going to have a great return. Can you tell us what we’re going to be doing as we go every week or so? Yes, we can, but we are going to be testing various messages. We are going to find out if that message resonated or if we changed a few phrases, that one worked better. Then we are going to work on that and test another one. Eventually, after a while, you have got the data to back up and say, “These key words work. These key phrases are what are getting people’s attention and are causing them to react and take action.” Anybody who wants it overnight is not going to get it. You really need to understand that because otherwise you are just spinning your wheels. You are throwing money at the next thing the next day. If one doesn’t work, we’ll put money here. No, let’s refine what we are doing here because this is the platform that our audience is on. Let’s make sure we work to create the messaging that is going to be effective. Hugh: You spoke about live video as a platform. You have spoken about direct mail. That’s a platform. Speak about some of the choices for platforms on digital marketing. Geo: Digital is like the wild, wild West. There are over 242 social media sites, and those don’t include the dating sites. Just in social media alone, you have a plethora. Those are general social media, industry-specific, interest-specific, all kinds of platforms. Right now, the digital platforms that nonprofits and charitable organizations are using and that have the most effect is Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, Google+, and Pinterest, in descending order. Those are the platforms that are available in a social media sense. You also have your website, which should be the hub of all of your marketing materials. All of your social media should direct back to your website. That has to be a very fluid and dynamic piece of work that is easy to navigate, easy to understand, clearly defines messaging, benefits, features, all of those things that any business and organization is going to want to put in front of folks. Then you have your digital platforms, your blogs and digital publications and those areas where you can use your message to get out articles, white papers. You can place ads within most digital publications that are attuned to your audience. They are all out there right now. As I said, you can really focus your marketing dollars where it’s going to be best and you will get the phrase return because the data on each of those platforms is very clear. You don’t have to guess about what’s going to happen once you’re there, as long as you understand that it’s the place that you’re supposed to be. Hugh: When I work with charities of all kinds, I suggest they have someone internal that has the communications hat on. When they hire a person like you to build out their marketing campaign or their donor management correspondence, there needs to be somebody that is focused on bringing in all the data to one point. Somebody like you can be more effective in helping the organization. I find so many people working in charities that are underfunded are overworked and stretched. Imagine without the right data you can’t be fully effective, can you? Geo: No, not at all. Nor would you expect to be. I wouldn’t want to walk in and be thrown into a situation where I wasn’t given the tools or data. If you are the receptionist in the morning and you are the marketing person in the afternoon, I consider that a waste of money. You might as well just break me a nice check and let me go play golf because that is about what you’re going to get out of that person. It’s nothing against them; it’s just they don’t know how to do it. When my firm comes in and works with a nonprofit, I bring a team of folks. I have the web designers, the writers, the social media experts, the AdWords experts, the graphic designers, whatever that organization is going to need. I am able to put the team together and only for what they’re going to ned. I am not keeping a full staff and having to pay salaries for people who aren’t working on that particular project to keep the company running, which I believe helps the nonprofits out because they get exactly what they need. It’s on time, great time, great service. That is what I think makes a difference. We get in there, and as I always look at it as a partnership, business or charitable organization. I call them partners. It’s not only for the partners I work with to produce, but it’s also the folks I work with because I want to be their partners in marketing and public relations and be a part of their success and help them to reach their goals. When I am doing that, I am as intimately involved in their organization as they are. I learn everything about it. I get data, I get history, I get nuances and rumors and innuendos and anything else they want to share that can help me to better understand how to operate so I can help them do what they really want to do, which is grow, succeed, and serve their communities. Hugh: Russ, we are in the last part of our interview. I am going to toss it back to you for some comments and questions, if you will. Russell: One thing that came to mind is that you do have a lot of these smaller shops that don’t have the staffing or funding. What kind of tools could someone like Hugh or I give to an organization that is in this situation that would empower them enough to gather enough information that you would actually be helpful to them? Geo: There are a lot of free and very inexpensive software platforms that you can use for data analysis, data gathering. Google Analytics is #1. You can go to your website and once you set up your Analytics code, you can see exactly what kind of traffic you are getting to your website, where it’s coming from, how long they’re there, what kind of pages they visit, so you can determine your strengths in messaging. Facebook Insights is another one where if you are putting out Facebook campaigns, you are getting data back on the users. There is plenty of remarketing and other tools that Facebook has that don’t cost you anything. It’s just the cost you are paying for placing your ads. A customer relationship management software program is critical for every organization, especially when you are talking about data and analytics. A couple that are great that I’ve used is HubSpot. There is a free version of it, which is not as robust as their full system, but it allows you to be able to capture names and email addresses and then also to share that with your email system, like MailChimp or Constant Contact. You have CRMs like SalesForce or Zoho. All have a cost to them, which you have to consider when you are putting your marketing budget together. The software platforms you are going to use to analyze your data. You have to keep all of these things in check and in mind and find the one that is going to work best for you. There are a ton of fundraising management tools that are online that can help you out. SalesForce, Raisers Edge, Donor Perfect. I like Salsa. It’s a really robust system that is fairly inexpensive, but it gives you the opportunity to manage your donors online and your messaging to them. A couple of free ones that I’ve seen work but have not tried yet are Donor Manager, Metrics, Donor Box, and Civic RM. Those are all free. They have different capabilities. You go online and can pull up a web search and say “Free fundraising software.” You will get a list of all of those that are there. There are a lot of great resources that compare them and show the pluses and minuses. Russell: One of the things that comes to mind because a lot of it is sofware-driven. If you are a nonprofit charity, you can register on the Tech Soup platform, and you can get licenses for commercial software at a reduced rate. That is an important thing for nonprofits to do because you can spend a ton of money on software. Geo: Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Companies do, but they are bringing in millions and millions of dollars, and that software is their life blood. I’s critical now. You can’t do business without knowing where your information is coming from and where your customers are coming from. Hugh: Amazing. There is a lot to know about this topic. I think we are going to wrap up here. Geo, we have covered a lot of the topics that we had thought about covering. Is there an area we haven’t asked you about that you want to give us some data in before we do a wrap? Geo: One of the things that we work on as we are working with clients is: What is important to you? The results are interesting. This comes back to, and I have to agree with what happened in the Content Marketing Institute survey in 2016. Engagement, brand awareness, and developing client loyalty are the top three things that content marketing and marketing efforts are going to do or the goal of those for an organization. They want to get their base engaged, they want to raise that brand awareness, and they want those folks to take that action, to join that organization, to be there not just for that one check, but to be there for five to ten years down the road. Look at when you are setting up your PR and marketing efforts, make sure you establish some very clear goals as to what you want to achieve from them. Getting your name out is great, but what happens when you do that? What then do you want to happen? How do you want in sequence your efforts to move forward? If you start with the brand exposure, how do you then make sure that that becomes an engagement effort, and then how does that translate to getting the folks to say, “You know what? I am going to find out more about the organization and write a check and sign up to help out.” Hugh: That’s awesome. That sounds like a good summary statement. What do you think, Russ? Russell: Absolutely. What do we want people to know, feel, and do? It just comes back in so many ways, but that can’t be overemphasized because that is the whole kit and caboodle. If you’re not there, you will never reach the people you want to get to. Geo: Never. It’s easy to miss them if you don’t know what you’re looking for. Hugh: Geo Ropert, Ropert and Partners is your company. Thank you for sharing this information. I have learned a lot today. Russ, it’s given me some ideas for us to move SynerVision in another direction. Russell: There is a lot of information people need so they can be good clients. There is a bit of an art and science in the pro bono. Like Geo pointed out, it’s not for something you need yesterday. You have to be clear on what it is that you want out of that engagement. Even as a pro bono client, you have to in some ways behave like a paying client. That is another discussion. Geo, thanks for all the brilliant information you have provided. There is so much out there to take into consideration. But the main thought I want to leave people with is that you can’t afford not to talk about what you’re doing. You can do the best work in the world, but if nobody knows about it, nobody sends you a check. Geo: No. No, they do not. If you know any nonprofits that need some help in PR or marketing, give me a call. I can help out. Hugh: You will give them a free consultation, won’t you? Geo: Absolutely. The consultation is free. The work isn’t. Hugh: We’ll put your link in the notes. Geo, thank you so much. Geo: Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russ. It was great to be here. Russell: Thank you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Training in the Hybrid World Interview with Heather Burright Many nonprofits were forced to move their staff and volunteer training to the virtual environment in 2020. Now, almost two years later, we have an opportunity to reassess what we created and truly leverage the technology to ensure our staff and volunteers have the skills they need to deliver on our mission - even in our hybrid environment. I will walk through a process to help you create more engagement in the virtual room and build momentum with your staff development efforts. Leveraging 15 years of professional experience, Heather Burright, founder, and CEO of Skill Masters Market, specializes in creating dynamic, people-centric solutions that drive business goals. With her comes expertise in strategies for diversity, equity, and inclusion; instructional design; and change management. She’s dedicated to identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and to creating the learning strategies and solutions needed to develop those competencies. Most recently, Heather managed a proprietary competency model for YMCA of the USA. She spent countless hours educating and influencing HR leaders across the country, deepening their knowledge of why and how to implement the model. Prior to her work in a nonprofit, Heather led the way in innovative training design in industries such as for-profit higher education and government agencies. Heather earned an advanced degree from Jacksonville State University in Alabama. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Ordinary to Extra Ordinary. Oh yes you can! In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Pattie Dale Tye, a remarkable individual who has transitioned from a successful corporate career to becoming an author and mentor. We explored the theme of her book, "From Ordinary to Extraordinary," which emphasizes how anyone can achieve remarkable success through passion, purpose, and preparation. Pattie shared her inspiring journey, starting from her humble beginnings in a small town in North Florida to holding significant leadership roles in major corporations like AT&T and Humana. She discussed the importance of gratitude and giving back, dedicating her book to her parents and husband, who have been instrumental in her life. We delved into the challenges leaders face today and the necessity of reconnecting with our core values and principles. Patty highlighted the significance of self-discovery, encouraging listeners to identify their unique strengths and passions. She also emphasized the importance of mentoring others and lifting them as we climb the ladder of success. Throughout our conversation, Patty provided valuable insights on embracing discomfort, understanding our potential, and the importance of continuous growth. She reminded us that career journeys are marathons, not sprints, and that we should be patient and persistent in our pursuits. As we wrapped up, Pattie encouraged everyone to believe in themselves and not to be discouraged by the curated images often seen on social media. Her message was clear: if she can achieve extraordinary success, so can anyone else. Join us for this enlightening discussion that is sure to inspire and motivate you on your own journey from ordinary to extraordinary! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Leader Effectiveness: Closing The Confidence Gap Interview with Robbie Walls Today, there is a particular crisis for women—a vast confidence gap that separates the sexes. Compared with men, women don’t consider themselves as ready for promotions, they predict they’ll do worse on tests, and they generally underestimate their abilities across the board. A growing body of evidence shows just how devastating this lack of confidence can be. In fact, it turns out that confidence predicts success much more than competence. No wonder that women, despite all our progress, are still woefully underrepresented at the highest levels. Overqualified and overprepared, too many women still hold back on seeking opportunities. Women feel confident only when they are perfect. Or practically perfect. The good news is that with work, confidence can be acquired. This means that the confidence gap, in turn, can be closed. [caption id="attachment_6283" align="alignleft" width="300"]Robbie Walls [/caption] Robbie Walls is the founder of The Walls Speak, author of 180* Momentum, and co-author in The Power of the Platform. She is the host of Bold Girl Biz Podcast, a teacher by profession and entrepreneur by heart! Robbie draws out talent in female entrepreneurs so that their inner brilliance and voice is Alive. This brilliance is an expression of who they are becoming personally and professionally through confidence and leadership development. The Walls Speak delivers high-caliber group and 1:1 mentor coaching that results in significant self-confidence and more free time. More information at https://boldgirlbiz.thewallsspeak.com/ Get Robbie's Free Guide, "The Essential Guide to Resilience" at https://mailchi.mp/47ac02169cbd/a-guide-to-resilience   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nonprofit Money, You Don’t Manage it Alone with Chyla Graham   Remembering the Enron and Worldcom scandals, Chyla Graham never wants to see a nonprofit in their place. She’s adamant that financial transparency is vital to a healthy organizations and serves nonprofits so they understand what’s happening with their money, feel more confidently speaking about money, and can ask for the support they need. Managing the finances isn’t just the job of the finance team. It’s a team effort from the board to the staff and volunteers. How successful it is starts at the top. With an engaged treasurer who sees the mission and is willing and able to go the distance and push your organization to do better, your organization is stronger and communicates more effectively with your donors. For More Information go HERE     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Traits of The Gracious Leader: The Power Five®️ Interview with Gracious Coach Doris Young Boyer Doris Young Boyer is a sought-after keynote speaker, leadership advisor, and podcast host. She has insight, expertise, and experience about the behaviors that create a powerful presence, that create and sustain relationships, and produce bottom-line results. Doris has more than 25 years of domestic and international business experience. With more than 25 years of domestic and international corporate and business experience, Doris is the go-to expert on global protocol, business etiquette, and leadership behaviors. She has firsthand knowledge of the communication and leadership issues executives face on a regular basis as well as the diplomacy, conflict resolution skill, and protocol savvy needed to address these issues. She gives her clients winning formulas to be confident and successful in business and social situations.  Doris equips her clients to avoid unintentional and preventable blunders, such as taboo gestures. As a result of her coaching and professional development seminars, her clients reduce their learning curve, increase their influence and profitability, resolve conflict with grace and skill, maintain strong global relationships, create an effective workplace culture, motivate a team and achieve the goals that are important to them and positively impact the success of others and make better decisions. They implement the behaviors of a leader. Leaders will sidestep costly mistakes that can; derail a business meeting or an interview, demotivate a team or negatively impact the workplace culture. In a situation where a derailment has occurred, Doris will problem-solve with you to get back on track. She is a thought leader on Gracious Powerful Leadership which she describes as the result of intentionally choosing and using relationship-focused behaviors as the default in leading others. She brings experience and expertise working with individuals and organizations domestically and internationally. During her tenure as a human resources professional for a major corporation, Doris traveled extensively in Europe representing the corporation to its many divisions. She planned and executed conferences, briefings, and retreats in Europe aimed at increasing the effectiveness of executives. Doris has a BA and MA in behavioral and social sciences and post-graduate training in finance and strategy development. She is an experienced International Protocol and Corporate Etiquette Consultant, trained and certified by the founder of the Protocol School of Washington. Known as a problem solver who values relationships and results, Doris is trained in mediation, meeting facilitation, and innovative problem-solving. She facilitates workshops, meetings, leadership retreats, and strategy sessions. She helps clients perform things faster, easier, and more effectively. She makes your path smoother.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's Your Value...and Do You Know What It Is? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The New Leadership Playbook - Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results: Interview with Andrew Bryant Do we need a New Leadership Playbook, hasn't it all been said before? You can't lead others unless you first lead yourself (self-leadership is the first principle) To get results you need a leadership framework ( expectations X mindset and motivation X Right Behaviors Leadership is a series of conversations with people (These conversations are like 'plays' in sports) We need to master synchronous and asynchronous leadership in a digital world Kids understand the power of ownership (responsibility), so there's no excuse A global expert and author on self-leadership and leadership, Andrew Bryant has just published his fourth book. ‘New Leadership Playbook – Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results. This is a book for managers and leaders to lead in the times effectively, we now live in. For nearly 25 years Andrew has been crafting & delivering valuable & memorable experiences for diverse audiences. From Singapore to Silicon Valley, he has inspired, informed & ignited audiences to take ownership & responsibility – to be more creative & collaborative – to be more human in a digitally disruptive world. Andrew is the founder of Self Leadership International, a C-Suite Advisor, and a coach to Executive Leadership Teams. He is a Certified Speaking Professional (CSP), TEDx Speaker, Former President of Asia Professional Speakers Singapore, and current President of PSA Spain. For all this, Andrew is most proud of the work he has done building self-esteem and confidence for disadvantaged teenagers. Andrew now lives in Portugal, but he is British by Birth, Australian by Passport, and Brazilian by Wife! More information at - https://www.selfleadership.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Life is the Only Thing That Can Defeat Cancer You have to start somewhere when you have a passion project! Deb Krier is a coalition builder and warrior who is rewriting the playbook on how to L.I.V.E. with cancer. Diagnosed with Stage 4 Triple Positive Breast Cancer in 2015, she has seen what happens when cancer has people and is on a mission to ensure that we are no longer “fine” with cancer by energizing our voices and expanding our choices. As an unlikely cancer survivor, she's experienced the disconnection and despair of a system where cancer is the star of the show while people with cancer are watching silently from the sidelines. Now, she is using her experience and expertise to kill cancer with honesty, communication, and collaboration. She imagines a day when people dealing with cancer from all sides no longer fight their own battles and instead create coalitions that honor each other, with selflessness and society. More information at https://tryingnottodie.live/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Making Grant Management Practical with Grant and Contract Management Expert Ansley Fender Grant management costs an average of 20% of grant funding, which means that a pretty significant amount of funding is going to overhead rather than programs and services. A lot of nonprofits end up having to hire more people just to manage their grants, which further cuts into the funding. This is crazy considering how much of a public good nonprofits provide to society. COVID, for example, highlighted the fact that when the private sector is shutting down and the public sector can't move fast enough, the nonprofit sector steps it up. Because grant management software like Blackbaud is so expensive, a lot of grant managers have tried to force accounting software like Quickbooks to do grant management, which it was never intended to do. The result is messy books that are moderately ok for grant management but terrible for internal and Board management. The other option is spreadsheets, which require so much additional work and are shockingly easy to break. Atlas' mission is to support the mission of grant-funded and grant-seeking nonprofits by streamlining and automating their grant management so they can recapture the 20% lost to traditional grant management. We exist because they do. Ansley Fender's entrepreneurial journey began when she was pregnant with her second child. Despite being at a critical juncture in her life, she took a leap of faith and quit her job to start her own business. The concept for Atlas was born while Ansley was doing bookkeeping for nonprofits. She saw that as much as 30% of grant funding was going into administrative costs. Not only that, but the assistants handling those duties were being overworked. Atlas’ software helps lighten the load by scouring databases to match funders with funding recipients. On the days that being a startup founder is especially difficult, Ansley gets inspiration from her two fearless little girls. More about Ansley's work at https://www.getatlassolutions.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sales Leadership In Not for Profits: “Selling” Donations so You and the Donor Feel Good Steve Brossman is a 9 times Amazon Best Selling Author in Marketing and Sales. He has 20 years TV and Video experience including hosting his own Network TV Show and has been an Executive Producer for Warner Bros. He has created several 6 and 7 figure multi-national businesses of his own, including inventing and marketing an environmental product selling 4 million units into 26 Countries. Steve has spoken in 15 countries and trained over 65,000 Entrepreneurs, Professionals and Business Owners to Stand out in their market. Today Steve is going to show you how to attract more clients and boost your sales conversions without being pushy with the most powerful secret weapon …. BUYING ENERGY. More about Steve Brossman at https://steve@stevebrossman.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At Super Brand Publishing, we are experts at helping you become the world authority you always knew you could be. You know it. We know it. And this is how the rest of the world catches up. Confidence, passion, and a strong vision of her potential have all contributed to Juliet Clark's incredible success as a woman entrepreneur. Juliet Clark founded Winsome Media Group in November 2009. Within 90 days of opening her coaching and publishing company, she had filled her coaching schedule and established herself as an expert helping people build their digital footprint to sell more books, products, and services. Juliet's ability to help other fast track their success has made her extraordinarily successful. She assists her clients in all facets of publishing, and book and business marketing. Juliet is passionate about helping authors achieve their dreams. In addition to personal coaching, Juliet is also known as a motivational speaker and teacher through her Author Success Academy and the Entrepreneur Success Academy. She also is the host of a podcast called Ask Juliet, which answers author's questions and features successful authors and speakers who have effectively build platforms. Specialities: Professional speaker, motivational speaker, business webinars, author business bootcamps Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Greetings to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. Each week, we review techniques, strategies, skills, and culture development. We review all those things that are missing in the organizations that we lead. We bring in people who are successful in business, and they share their business strategies, their business skills, their framework for what they do. They have a specific area of expertise. Russell and I co-host this each week, and we encourage leaders in charities, all kinds, to install sound business principles into the organizations that they lead. Russell, welcome. Russell Dennis: Happy Tuesday. Welcome again, everybody. It’s good to be here. Thank you, Juliet, for joining this. It’s a beautiful sunny day in Denver, Colorado, and we are finally north of 30 degrees. Hugh: I am in Virginia, the south central part of Virginia, and it is in the mid-60s. It is top down weather from the convertible. Our guest today, as you already let out of the bag, is Juliet Clark. Juliet, where are you coming in from? Juliet Clark: I am coming in from Draper, Utah, where we actually broke 30 today as well. It’s sunny. The snow is thawing. But more snow tomorrow from what I hear. Hugh: Your company is Super Brand Publishing. There is also this Winsome Media group. I will let you talk about your background. Basically, what is the background that has given you the expertise to talk about what you are going to talk about today? The title of what we are talking about is How Community Building and Assessment Marketing Helped You Build Relationships. At the bottom of leadership, at the bottom of communication, at the bottom of attracting funding would be relationship. Juliet, welcome, and tell us a little bit about yourself. Juliet: Well, thank you for having me on, Russell and Hugh. I actually started out in the traditional publishing world and went on to advertising. I worked on the Nissan account, and then I moved on to Mattel to work on some of their products. Around 2008, I decided to write my first book, and I thought it would be a no-brainer getting it published. Self-publishing was brand new, and I went out and took my fiction novel, which—by the way I will tell you guys a little secret—I was going through a divorce. I wrote a mystery novel, and I killed my ex-husband. I was very anxious to get that published because it was either that or wear felony orange for the rest of my life. I am blonde, so not my color. To move on from there, I published my first book. I found a lot of inadequacies in the self-publishing world, things that I thought were super unethical. I created my own publishing company, so that is where my expertise began. By my third book, I had built my own platform and sold over 25,000 copies of that one. I was out of family members to kill, so that sold a lot more than my previous novels. I moved on from there. After that happened, my friends came and wanted me to help build their platforms. The company just morphed throughout the years. We were noticing entrepreneurs were writing books. When they brought them to us, we got a sense right away that this was not going to be the breakthrough product that their writing coaches had told them it would be. It was probably going to be another in a long line of failed products because they didn’t have a platform. That is where we are today. We have Winsome Media Group, where we focus primarily on building platforms for companies, coaches, authors, speakers, small businesses. Super Brand Publishing, where if you are really serious about that book needs to be a bestseller, we go back and we build ROI on those failed products and services that you have in the past and position that book as the icing on the cake instead of the main event. We are a fix-it crew that goes back and fixes all that other stuff that wasn’t done correctly and starts bringing ROI into your business. If I had to sum it up, I would say we are a marketing company disguised as a publishing company for the most part. Hugh: That’s key. To wrap around the relevance for the charities, it’s that we don’t know how to build this engagement model that you are talking about that is so important, building relationships. Before I go further, would you describe what you mean by “platform?” Juliet: A platform is where you build your audience, your fan base. In the fiction world, it was a little bit harder because you had characters you had to build that around. In the nonfiction world, it is building those people who are engaged in your business. I think there is a big gap out there between the digital world and the old networking ways that we used to work. There are people who are my age, probably 45 and older—not that I’m 45, but I will just pretend I’m down there— that they are really experts at being able to build relationships one on one. That is what we grew up with. But they don’t know how to bring in that digital space that they need. We teach them how to build relationships online because you can’t sell online unless you have relationships built. People don’t know you, like you, and trust you. Then we have this other group out there who are the younger generation, who are really invested in that digital platform, but they are not really great at building one on one relationships the way our generation is. We bring all of that together. We combine that personal and that digital to actually build relationships with people before you sell to them online. Hugh: That is amazing. I have 250,0000 in various platforms, following on mostly Twitter. I am driving a large fast-growing platform on LinkedIn. But Facebook is my least favorite. That is your most favorite. All in all, social media is in fact social. I am amazed at how many people don’t treat it. Hey, I’m George, buy my stuff. It’s really disappointing to get those things all the time. I would say 95% of what I get is a very awkward approach. It’s like me inviting a girl out and saying, “Let’s kiss first.” Juliet: Exactly. Hugh: Wait a minute. Why should I kiss you? There is this building a trusted relationship before people even want to consider anything that you’ve got. Let’s talk about the two pillars that were in the title. One is building a community. Talk about the context of what that means and why that’s important. The other piece is the assessment piece. Can you talk about those? Describe them, and talk about why they’re important. Juliet: Absolutely. Community building has recently become even more important than it was in the past. It used to be that you opened your business or your book page on Facebook. Because social media, and this is very important, social media is not yours, it belongs to the person who owns the platform. For Facebook, I may have several pages or communities, but they don’t belong to me. They belong to Mark Zuckerberg. At the end of the day, that’s his monetization platform. Now all of a sudden, business pages have become obsolete because he wants to monetize. That’s capitalism. So he has lowered visibility on those pages down to about 4-7% of the content that you produce people actually see. Inside of a community, which is a group on Facebook, people see 100% of what’s in there. 100% of what you post to 100% of the people who are in that community. Where the assessment marketing comes in is that once you have a community, and this is the old thinking of it, is that you build this community, you draw people in with Facebook ads, you put people in to that group, and then you find out what they want afterwards. The way that we do it is completely different because we use the assessment marketing to make sure we have our ideal client, our target market in that group. That’s how we use the assessment. Finding out where their skill levels are at, what kind of content do they need that will be valuable to them and create value to them. What skill level are they at? We use microcommitments within those. Are we speaking to beginners? Are we speaking to seasoned experts who would like to bump up where they are at in the world? We use that assessment marketing to create the engagement within the group. What questions do we ask them? How do we keep this going? What kind of content do they need to begin building trust with me? That is where we like to use those two together to make sure that we have not just a big group of people in there because that is all about ego, but the right people in there that we actually can serve. Hugh: Be careful of that ego thing. You have three males on the line here. Juliet: I don’t get a flavor that you’re really egocentric men. Hugh: Okay, thank you. Let’s frame this in a couple subsections. We are talking to charities who don’t commonly publish a book. Let’s rethink that. They really don’t tell their story, so there is another track that maybe they haven’t thought of and they can even get a sponsor to put their name on it and pay for the whole thing. There is that track. There is also the track of building the platform so that we have people in community, which is people together with a common philosophy, a common passion, things like that so that community is where people relate to and talk to each other. The most important thing I believe in online community isn’t content; it’s relationship. Would you agree or disagree? Juliet: I think that’s the most important thing, but content plays a big part of that. In order to be able to show people your expertise, you need to be able to communicate value to them. That is where the content really comes in. I like to liken it to when you have a book. There is that concept that most writers don’t get, which is show, not tell. A community does the same thing through content. You are showing people that you are really an expert at what you do. You re showing them value instead of them saying, “Me over here, I’m a great guru. Buy from me.” You are laying out the trust factor there. People are getting to know you. You are giving them actionable tips so that they see that you really know what you’re doing and you are creating that value for them. When they are ready, the assessment marketing can drive them easily into a strategy session or more nurturing. It’s a nurturing sequence. I like to liken it to dating, sort of like you did. If I go out on a date with you and you say on the first date, “Juliet, would you marry me?” It is icky. Not that I feel icky with you, but you get it. I’m like looking around to see where the bathroom is and where that is positioned to the back door so I can call a cab and sneak out of there because it was too much, too soon, and it feels really icky. That is what all of this is about. I’m showing you that I have value and nurturing you. Hugh: Let’s bring this back. These are really sound business principles for marketing. This is an area that charities are blind to: marketing and creating relationships and people who buy are donors. People who buy are sponsors. People who buy are grant makers. People who buy are board members who donate but they give their time. People who buy are volunteers. We take it for granted that people just want to show up because we have a passion. Being able to communicate a message, build a relationship, and show people why it’s important, I think it’s a missing skillset. What do you think about that repositioning of what you said? Juliet: I think it absolutely is as well. A lot of people don’t do it because it’s time-consuming. It takes a lot to communicate, to sit down and write something up, or do a video. I think it’s definitely something that’s missing. The more that you can communicate with that crowd, the donor crowd, when you can show them a video, when you can speak to what the needs are, the better you are able to bring those people in because just you and me having a conversation, you may be passionate about it, but I will forget about that passion ten minutes later. Hugh: The passion needs to be internalized with whomever you are talking to. Juliet: It needs to be presented in a way they will remember. For some people, that is visual. For some people, that is reading about it, but yes, something they can go back and digest later as well. You mentioned a book. I actually did a really great book Blue Laguna for a nonprofit called Blue Laguna. They sell that book, and it’s something that you take home and put on your coffee table. People joined. We sold the book out because people were so enthralled by yes, I need to have that passion for cleaning up the ocean. Look at these beautiful animals. Things like that where people have a real takeaway and get a real sense of how far you are willing to go with your passion. Hugh: I just know so many charities that have such good stories and they never tell them, except in little circles. This idea of why don’t we do a book, and I’m sure you have ways to help people take the ideas and put them on paper. I am going to call on my colleague in the pink shirt. He says he has the perfect head; I think I have hair. We have to debate that. I think it takes a real man to wear pink, don’t you, Juliet? Juliet: I love it when men wear pink. Hugh: We are of course recording this for the podcast so people can’t see us. They can only imagine what Russell looks like wearing pink. Russell, you in a number of these sessions have made a really good point about when we are approaching board members or donors or sponsors to find out what they are interested in. What kind of thread do you see in that coming from what Juliet is talking about and building the community, building a platform, and engaging people in a meaningful conversation? Russell: It’s just like any verbal language. Everybody has their language. You pointed out those five personas that are actually customers of ours. In the material I have put together for people, I have a customer profile that has turned up in both of my courses. You have to have a separate one for each group that you are talking to. We have technology that we are beholden to. You need the technology, but the old relationship building process and skills are still relevant and important. You have to take time to nurture these relationships on one hand, and on the other hand, you have to be where all the people you want to reach are. That puts you in the space where you have to do a little bit of everything. And that is what building the community is about. I talked with Rick Feeney, another publisher, at one point about having a nonprofit write a book because it is something for them to tell their story with. But Juliet has actually worked with some nonprofits. When you approach a nonprofit or you talk with an organization, what is the biggest hurdle that you have seen charities have to overcome to embrace this idea of building a community? Juliet: That’s a great question. A lot of times, it’s the organization within the nonprofit. There is a lot of who is going to run this? We are spread so thin. Do we really have time to do the assessment? Do we have the avenue? Do I feel comfortable? Who is going to go out there and ask somebody to do platformbuilding.com or whatever yours is and see how this serves you, see where you’re at with this? There is a lot of resistance behind who is going to do it, mostly. When it comes to the book, it’s we don’t have money. We don’t have money to invest in something like this. Or even marketing. They don’t have money to invest in marketing. It’s usually one or two people who are really passionate about it, and they are out there trying to spend all their time raising money, and the administrative isn’t there to facilitate this. Would you guys agree? Hugh: It’s part of what we encourage people to move away- Even though we call this The Nonprofit Exchange, it’s a channel that people understand, but we try to encourage people inside the organizations. Russell used the word “charity.” It’s a tax-exempt charity, a social capital organization. We mistakenly go into this nonprofit as a philosophy and not a tax classification. There is a resetting of your thinking. A lot of organizations think they can’t afford it when in fact they should afford it because it will make a huge difference in their outcomes. Also, I do think there is a channel here if they came up with a really good proposal for what they are doing, why it’s important, what the impact is going to be. I think they can find somebody to fund it for them. They think about we can only fund it out of our budget instead of tapping into the people who are passionate about the mission and asking one of them to fund it or a combination of them funding it or do a crowdfunding campaign around the initiative. Guys, David has joined us. David Dunworth. Are you in Florida today, sir? David Dunworth: Yeah, I’m in Florida. I had to go to Chicago for a couple of days. Hugh: You came back to thaw out. You and Russell, you are following this really neat thread. Coming from ostensive marketing background and knowing charities, what question do you have for Juliet? David: I literally don’t have any questions, but the comment on the book authorship is something that I have been talking with a couple of nonprofit people that I am presently working with that I think is one of the best vehicles to tell their story and unify their message, which not only works internally, but also externally. Like you said, Juliet, the coffee table book or whatever you want to call it, it’s the world’s greatest business card. I think that is an idea that really needs to propel itself forward. A great way to do things. Juliet: I didn’t mention there, one of the things we did inside the book as well was we had QR codes in there. You could actually take your phone and click on it and go to video, which I think was super powerful as well. The author of the book had Go Pro video out in the middle of a plot of orcas he was paddle boarding in. Blue whales and things like that. They were astounding. That was a huge part of bringing people in. His group has over, I think last time I checked, a million people at his business page over on Facebook because people grasp into what he was talking about with the ocean ecology. Hugh: It’s fascinating to try to go backwards to figure out what makes something go viral like that and catch on in a big way. Juliet, you spoke about you don’t really own the community in Facebook. Why would you do Facebook rather than setting up your own independent community? Juliet: Here is what we do with it. We really encourage that through the assessment marketing, before someone can get the results, they have to give you an email address so they can get them. One of the things that we do very well from past experience is we transition as soon as we can people from Facebook into our email list. Ultimately, our email list is that tool that no one can take away from us. I would imagine for charities, it’s a huge way to build relationships with the donors as well. Look what we’re doing. See how we’re doing it. That’s one of the first things that we work on with the assessment: being able to have people get it, take it before they come into the group, and it’s a criterion to get into the Facebook community. We are immediately transitioning people so that we can contact them in the event something does happen and Facebook goes away. All of that came from a really bad experience one of my friends had over on MySpace where she had an online newsletter that got over 300,000 hits a month, and she was making money from sponsorships. When MySpace went away, she didn’t have a list. She lost all those people. That is part of what we do with the Facebook community. Have that group of people there, but we also work very hard to get them into our list as well. Hugh: When you are reaching out and creating relationship with people, why Facebook instead of LinkedIn or Twitter? Juliet: I never thought Twitter was a great relationship building tool. I stay away from it. For me, it’s content curation instead of putting your own out there. It’s so wild. It’s a little like being on reality TV some days. I stay away from Twitter. LinkedIn is primarily used- If you look at the statistics, people jump on, they stay on for a few minutes, they look at what they need to look at, and they get off. Facebook is some place where people go to relax. They are clicking around, they stay on it a lot longer, it’s easier to build relationships and friendships over there than it is on those other platforms. Hugh: I find that people- Sorry? Juliet: More social. Hugh: It is. Social media. I find that people on Facebook are my B2B contacts and they are serious about the conversations and are not looking at other things. They are looking for something meaningful. The most important relationships I have are people I met on Twitter, the highest-level thought leaders, the editor of our magazine for example. I met him on Twitter. He has a Ph. D in organizational leadership. We have been working together for years. We met on Twitter. He said, “I will come visit you.” We ultimately met in person. I have gotten a lot of traction on Twitter. You’re right. It can be like reality TV. Right now, it’s exploding. There is this weird thing going on in Facebook and Twitter especially that they are censoring things and deleting accounts. One day, I will wake up with 100 Twitter followers gone. It jumps around radically. I can just only figure that there weren’t 100 people who got up and hated me one day. 100 people lost their accounts. I can see censors. I don’t know anybody who has lost a Facebook account, but I have read things about Facebook doing similar things. To your point of making sure that you have something you own where you have those relationships like an email list. Russell, you’re moving around like you have a really good- Russell asks the hard questions. What’s brewing in that mind? Russell: I was just thinking maybe if I could put some tweets out there to convince people that I am stable in my following. Juliet: Are you unstable? Russell: All those communities have a different audience and a different purpose. I just jumped out there initially because I thought, Well, I need to try to be everywhere and understand what these different platforms offer. I try to post stuff in all of them. As far as engagement goes, I probably have a little bit more interactivity on LinkedIn just for myself. What Juliet is talking about is really important to understand where your tribe is because the people that you’re trying to attract, if you have a diverse group age-wise, they will be all over the place. You may need to spend more time using one platform more than the other, but the key is in your donor database. Those names and the information that you collect. How strong a case do you have to make to get people to actually endeavor to build the list because the money is in the list? If they can build a donor database. How many people do you run across that don’t actually have a list? Is it difficult to make a case for them to do that? Juliet: That’s a great question. We actually put polls inside of our community because we have a platform-building community. I do want to mention in order to get into our community, you have to fill out an assessment and some questions because we don’t take everyone. You have to be our ideal client. That is such a huge point because if you have a huge mishmash of people who aren’t interested, you destroy the energy of your group. Getting people to build a list is very difficult. They don’t, especially for book people because making a bestseller list has become so difficult. You can’t just have a bunch of sales on Amazon now. You need them over several platforms, which means you need to be talking to those people in your list before presale and finding out where they read. It’s really hard to communicate that to people, that that list is where all their money is at. If I send something out to my list, I know what percentage will open, and I pretty much can guess what percentage will purchase from there. If you just have a group of 1,300 people on Facebook and you have a small list, chances are they are not going to buy there. But if you have a large list, you can start looking at those analytics and find out how much you can actually bring in. It’s super important. We do a list purge every year. We are about to get ready to do it now. We say, “Hey, if you’re not interested anymore, please unsubscribe yourself. If we don’t hear from you, we will unsubscribe you in 30 days.” We like to keep it super clean and make sure it’s our ideal client. But it’s difficult to communicate that to people. Russell: One of the things that happens to people, I have an email inbox. I have several accounts. It’s almost out of control. You go and get information, and there are some people that email you to buy things you already purchased. That might be the experience of somebody. Are you running into people that say, “I don’t want to be that person that relentlessly emails three times a day all day every day?” Is that a barrier to getting people to accept the idea of building a list? Juliet: It is in some sense. We let people know when they opt in that we send out a piece of content a week. Unless we are running a campaign, we usually don’t overemail our list. Once a week is enough to say, “Hi, I’m here, I’m providing value” without being obnoxious. With what we teach, we don’t constantly hammer for sales. We are building trust and bringing in people through the assessments and talking to them one on one, which is the best way to build a relationship. Hugh: That’s amazing. Russell: We should talk a little bit about the assessment process. I think I’ve seen some platforms that talk about creating assessments, but what are some of the things that you typically want to put in there? How do you actually talk to people about how to tailor those, how to use them? How do you use them yourself? I know that you talked about making sure you only had the right people in the community. What is the process for crafting the types of questions that are going to make sure you have the right people? Juliet: For us, first of all, we use the Smart Biz Quiz. I think it’s the best tool out there. It does collect the email, and it gives you a lot of information. It also has a commitment section, which puts together an auto-responder. It has its own auto-responder with it. The process we usually go through is what are the things you need to know most about your consumer? For you, you have five different consumers. You would have to go off in different directions with five different assessments. For platform building, first we want to find out if they know who their audience is. We go through that with them. On a scale of 1-10, we ask a couple questions. What we find out a lot of times is they don’t even know who their ideal client is. That may be something you guys need as well. Then we jump into what are your social media skills? Several questions. We usually try to keep it to three to four minutes’ worth of questions because we don’t want people to go away because they are bogged down. From social media, we go into list building. Then our last section is usually about building a funnel because we want to know if you have a funnel built or if you are starting from scratch. It’s basically what do you need to know about your consumer, and what is it your consumer needs to know about themselves? When you are looking at that- I love Jane Deuber who created this system. She positions it best because she talks about taking the view off of you and putting it on them. Let’s take the spotlight off me and put it on you and see where you are really at with all this. The last part of it is the commitment section. There you put your three biggest objections. On a scale of 1-10, you ask people for me it’s time, money, and do I want to fix the problem? We ask those questions, and then based on those answers, the auto-responder will put out an appropriate offer. On a 1-30 scale in the commitment level, if you come in between 20 and 30, we want to talk to you. We offer you a free strategy session. If you come in between 10 and 20, we have a medium range; we offer you an application. If you fill out that application, we want to talk to you. If you can’t be bothered, you go back in the nurture pile. With a 0-10, we give you something free. You’re probably not willing to fix the problem or invest in yourself, time or money-wise. That is what we look at because we want to be talking to people who are ready to purchase today. We are delegating our time, and we are keeping tabs on where people are at in the process. Hugh: Russell, how do you see that applying to getting donors, getting board members, getting volunteers? Russell: That is a great system. I have never heard anything. As you can see, I was writing furiously. That is brilliant. That is why I asked how you actually go about it. That makes perfect sense because right now, it is a numbers game. You are better off spending time around the people who are more engaged than trying to convince people and make a case. There is already a tribe out there. Get to the tribe. Get to the people who are ready. They come glass in hand and say, “I want my portion of the Kool-Aid.” That is where they are plugged in. Other people you can bring along. Because of the constraints on resources, nonprofit leaders just don’t have that kind of time to chase people who may or may not have an affinity. I think that is really great. I am going to check out this Smart Biz Quiz tool. I looked at another one, and to be honest, I haven’t gone back because they take something that is simple and make it a process. The important thing is to ask the best questions. It’s not the people who have all the answers; the questions need to change. Asking the best questions that positions you to be more helpful. Hugh: Juliet, are you familiar with a book by Ryan Levesque called Ask? Juliet: Yes, I am. A lot of this is right out of this. What’s interesting is before his book came out, I was already working with Jane Deuber’s tool because she created it before that book came out, I believe. What she does is brilliant with it. You’re always going to have those looky-loos, but you don’t want to spend time with them. I think this process really helps with that. Hugh: Looky-loos. She is not talking about- Russell is still writing. She is not talking about good-looking dudes like us. I am coming up with a paradigm shift here. We chase people. We beg them to come on board. We tell them there is not much work, and they know we’re lying. Turning the tables on this, we are looking for a few skilled volunteers. We are looking for a few committed board members. Russell, we deal with this low-performing culture. Charity leaders are reluctant to ask people to do things when the data shows that the more you ask of people, the more they are going to do. They find a reason to do it, and it’s connecting to their passion. Russell, am I making sense? Is there a paradigm shift here? As we are saying we are building a board here, here is an assessment, we want to check to make sure it’s a good fit. What are you thinking about that? Russell: When people write you a check, or even more importantly they have agreed to roll up their sleeves and spend some time with you, you have them. They are committed to what you’re doing. Asking a little bit more of them honors their commitment. If they have time constraints, they will be hesitant. It makes sense to ask these people who are already supporting you to help ramp up those efforts. Who do you know? Who else do you know that could come in and contribute time, talent, or treasure? Hugh: That’s right. We have people show up. We haven’t really segmented them. These are the tactical people. Here is the visionary people. Here are the introverts. Here are the extroverts. Here are the people who like to do phone follow-up work. Here are the people who hate to make phone calls. Sitting down in Clearwater, Florida, David, anything coming to your mind about how this assessment can help pre-qualify volunteers, board members, advisors, people like that? David: That is one of the primary methods. Through Juliet’s assignment process, you are funneling into the basins for where your clients want to be. The people who are responding into that survey, you are being able to automatically segment them through that sophistication. I listened to a podcast a couple weeks ago, and it was a marketing expert who was talking about how he restaffed his disc jockey wedding music business to the point where he utilized automation to hire people. He did precisely what Juliet has just described. He took them through a series of assessments and exercises first of all to see if they can follow directions. It’d be surprising how many people will read the email and respond when the email says, “Just send me the highlights of your career,” and somebody sends you the full resume. Things like that. I see the value in that assessment filter system to utilize a process for the nonprofit from board members to volunteers. Those board members who are- Every organization has them. I sat on several boards, and a lot of people would talk to me about how to get on a board. I want to get on a board. Those are the people that you really want to stay away from because they are looking more or less for something to hang on the far end of their name as opposed to somebody who wants to share their passion and their gifts and their time with the mission that the organization is based on. I think that filter system sounds great. Hugh: Juliet, we have used the word “funnel” a few times. There may be people who are listening who don’t understand that. It sounds like we pour them into a drain. How are you meaning put them into a funnel? Juliet: Depends on which bucket they went into. Some we might pour down the drain. When I talk about a funnel, I mean actually having a marketing campaign set up. I use the funneling assessment and the community as the head of my funnel. People who come into there, then we get them into our list. We also have campaigns that are behind that. It’s bringing them from social media into our world into social media into our list and then being able to sell them. You are taking this big crowd. It doesn’t look like this on the inside. It looks more like a spider web when you do it right. Let’s say you speak in front of a room and you invite people to come over and take your assessment. There will be a certain number of people who will actually do that. The rest will go away. From that assessment, you will invite people into your community. There are going to be people who took that assessment who may not want to be a part of your community. Then you get people inside who transition to the list. Not all of those people are going to go. You are narrowing down from a bigger group who a little interest, more interest, a lot of interest, we’re in. That is what you are really doing with all that, giving them baby steps and opportunities to come in. If they take them, great. If they don’t, let’s get it down to people who want the opportunity. Hugh: Ryan Levesque says in his book that people don’t like to do surveys, but they like to give their opinion. What have you found? Juliet: The way our system is set up, you’re not really giving an opinion. I bet if you did this for something like politics, everybody has an opinion. I think he’s right in that sense. But here’s the thing that entices them to take the assessment. When you position it in a way to find out where your skill level is really at, people are curious about that. I wonder if I am as good as I think I am. I wonder if I am as bad as I think I am. That is where the curiosity is getting in and finding out more about let’s look at you instead of let’s look at me. When you are down the line and selling something, it makes it much easier to sell whatever you’re selling when their defenses are down. If I have to go into a strategy session and say, “Your social media isn’t up to par,” your social media may not be up to par, but your immediate reaction is, “No, it’s not.” That wall goes up, and it makes it more difficult for me to close. When you are able to come into a webinar or a strategy session or a selling situation and you already know that you need the help, you’re much more open to the suggestion. You are much more open to me telling you that this is where you’re at and this is where your vision is and now let’s fill that gap. In a lot of ways, it has to be that curiosity about where they are as an individual on the topic. Hugh: There is a lot of nuances to this. I’ve ignored the primary piece that you were talking about, which is thinking how we engage people as volunteers, board members, servant leaders in the organization. There is one of the eight streams of revenue that we teach people how to create is earned income. It is selling things that are related to what you’re doing: books, events, doing trainings. There are business streams of earned income that are relevant to what the charity is doing. Utilizing a lot of these and then the idea of telling your story in a book, maybe even having an anthology where you have your tribe write a chapter or tell the story so that you have an anthology, which ups the investment of people investing in the books so they want to share it. Thinking about creating revenue streams by there is lots of books we can sell or programs we can sell. We could even sign on for affiliate programs. We teach charities to think about signing up at Walmart and getting a number so when people buy, they give your number, and Walmart takes a percentage and donates it to your charities. Grocery stores have the cards they use to donate to charities. We talked about how we interview people for meaningful volunteer work. Going back to creating the funnel, where can people go to learn about what you do and how you teach? Do you have webinars or self-studies? Or is it only working with Juliet? Juliet: We have seen a shift in the marketplace lately where people aren’t dying to work on self-studies anymore. Most of our programs are either one on one or group programs. The group program, I work one on one with you and build your first assessment, your community, and the editorial within it. Go to winsomemediagroup.com. There are a couple programs over there. The one where we build the community and the assessment is JulietClark.com/rdsm. You can find out more about that program. And we have a group over on Facebook, a platform building group. It’s Facebook.com/groups/platformbuilders. Hugh: Michael Hyatt has a book called Platform. Juliet: He does. Hugh: Any similarities in what he teaches and what you’re teaching? Juliet: I think if I had done the book back when he did, yes, there would be. But I think there has been so much change that has occurred since he wrote the first book. I’d love to see him come out with an updated version. I think there has been a shift in the marketplace that that book is very basic now. Our consumer has gotten much more savvy. I would love to see him write a more updated book in that sense. He’s got the basics. Hugh: Using that, he created quite a substantial tribe and a large footprint. We are on the final stretch of our interview. I‘m going to give Russell and David a chance to ask another question, and then I will do a wrap with Juliet. David? Russell? Who wants to go first? David: Russell is first. Russell: There is lots there. For those who were wondering what we’re talking about, I have not read the book yet, but I came across this, and I have forgotten that I downloaded it. It has remarkable charts on there. But I am going to go back and take it a step further because this is a wonderful valuable product that he just added and didn’t charge any money for. There is lots of information out there. But people don’t need more information. They need somebody to help them make more sense of it. Juliet, I am going to go to your community and sign in and learn a little bit more about how you employ these tools. It’s one thing to read it and another thing to see somebody actually take it and apply it. Remarkable stuff. I love this. You can never learn too much. It’s important. The last question I have on getting nonprofits or anybody on that matter, because you probably deal with small businesses and other people, too: What are the three most common objections you have to somebody embarking on the process? Juliet: Oh, that’s so easy. Time. I don’t have time to fix the problem. Platform building does take time. I don’t care what you see out there. Six figures in six months. 100,000 in 90 days. It’s a process. You don’t build a relationship in five minutes, and you don’t build a platform in five minutes. It is truly an integral process that takes I would say at least a good six months to a year when you build it organically. The second is money. There are a lot of books out there that tell people how to do it, but the biggest problem I see is that people are reading books. By the time they read the books, the information is outdated, and they are now bringing outdated platform pieces together and integrate them. The third is, I don’t need to do it; I will be discovered. A lot of people think that it’s as easy as I am going to put my stuff out there and some influencer will discover me and I will be on my way. That is about as likely as the next supermodel being found at age 12 in a store in Milwaukee. Hugh: That’s so real. As you know, entrepreneurs and most charities think because they have something worthy, people will beat a pathway to their door, and money will follow in their pockets, which is so far from true. There are ditches filled with people who didn’t make it. They fell off the road. David, in Clearwater. David: I don’t have any questions. I am sitting here aghast and amazed at the process. Like Russell, I am heading over to your spot to see just how bad I am. Juliet: How good you are. Position it nicely. Position it positively. David: I am trying to pick up on something you said earlier in the day. Yeah, you’re right. I am looking forward to finding out more about the process. Thank you. Juliet: Cool, thank you. Hugh: Juliet, what would you like to leave people with? Juliet: Start building your community the minute you have the idea. Whether it’s a book, a product, a service, validate it there before you spend a whole lot of money finding out that it’s not valid, that it doesn’t have a market, that it doesn’t have the purpose you think. Take all of that feedback that that community gives you, and figure out a way to make it all work if it’s a viable product. Don’t do it the other way around. Hugh: Juliet Clark, thank you very much. This has been priceless information today. Juliet: Thank you for having me. Hugh: Absolutely. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zero to $1 Million in 60 minutes with Cashflow Cookbook Author, Gordon Stein There is tremendous focus on Wellness today. Your members are stressed out like never before and as their leader, they need your help. Many organizations focus on providing programs around mental health and stress reduction including yoga, counseling, and meditation. But wouldn't it make sense to help people with their number 1 stress directly? Money.It impacts every aspect of their lives. It is the principle issue in 41% of divorces and 85% of Americans say that their financial stress affects their work. 65% of Americans with children live paycheck to paycheck. 50% of calls to Employee Assistance Programs are about financial issues. And 64% of Americans retire with less than $10,000. Those are all stresses that your members live every day. What can you do to help? Gordon Stein wrote a book that shows exactly how to free up cash flow to pay down debt in a household to ease the pain. Or apply those freed-up funds to enable a bright financial future, give more to a charity or fund a college education. Simple, practical ideas that anyone can use, with nothing else to buy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AI Risk and the AI Trust Council: The Geeks Are Getting Out of Hand Rather than AI this is our time to show our HI, or Human Intelligence. We are in a position to help heal the world and push forward toward an amazing future. The responsibility for how our collective future goes depends on each one of us acting responsibly during this time of massive change. It's the people's time to help shape the pro-human future that we can enjoy. The AI Trust Council welcomes a pro-human future led by humans. CEO/ Founder of TheAITC.com Established the first-ever AI Trust Council in the United States, recruiting Emergency services personnel, Firefighters, Commercial Pilots, Air Traffic Controllers, and Humanitarians to help steer AI in a pro-human direction. 25 years of military experience: Apache attack helicopter pilot, contractor, and former enlisted soldier. 10 years as a Longbow Apache instructor for UAE, Kuwait, and Saudi militaries. Combat missions as Air Mission Commander in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring More information at - https://theaitc.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Effective Brand Strategies for Nonprofits It’s more important than ever to be able to stand out from the crowd, distinguish your organization, and be meaningful to your audiences. Understanding the relevance of your brand and how your organization meshes with people’s values and world perspective and meets people’s needs is crucial in today’s world. Howard Levy is a brand strategist, award-winning creative director, marketing, and fundraising expert with a 30-year track record of helping organizations revitalize their brands, engage their audiences, and raise more money. Notes: Nonprofit branding expert Howard Levy has helped hundreds of organizations overcome their inertia, wake up their brands, and reach a higher level of success. Recognizing the need for nonprofits to tell their stories more effectively to drive awareness, he founded one of the first marketing agencies focused specifically on the needs of the nonprofit sector 30 years ago. As President of Red Rooster Group, he’s partnered with organizations across a range of causes, revitalizing their brands to remain relevant. He has helped nonprofits to update their missions to meet the moment, change their names without losing their history, reframe their stories to expand nationally or internationally, and create cohesive visual identities to connect fractured chapters.  More at - https://redroostergroup.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Interview with Marketer David Dunworth About Branding and Leadership Discover How You and Your Teams Represent Your Brand Learn how nonprofit leaders, boards and staff create negative brand recognition.   David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is http://marketingpartnersllc.com     Read the Transcript for the Interview Hugh: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. My special guest tonight is David Dunworth. My co-host Russell Dennis is also here. Russell has been on this journey with me many times. I appreciate your being here, Russ. David, he will interject some questions along with me. We pose the topic tonight of “Profit is not a dirty word.” Whoa. Before we get into that, I am going to ask you to tell people maybe three or four sentences about your background and why you should be talking about this topic so they can get some context on who David Dunworth is. I know you, and you have a lot of gifts to share. We are doing a snippet of those tonight. You and I have talked about how I encourage people to go away from the word “nonprofit” even though we understand that to describe the sector. It puts this in this scarcity thinking mode that we can’t make a profit. Speak a little bit. I am going more toward social benefit or social enterprise or tax-exempt charity. There are ways to describe us by not saying what we are not. What are we? David Dunworth, welcome to this interview. Say a little bit about your background, especially on this topic on branding and profit. David: Sure. Thank you, Hugh. Thanks, Russell. Glad to be here. My name is David Dunworth. Like Hugh said, I have a few things I am aware of based on my history. After the Vietnam War was over, I went to the public sector in the private club business. From 1971 to 1997, I was in the private club business. I ran officers’ clubs and NCO clubs. When I got out, I stayed in the private club business. During that time, I worked with the board of directors for the Michigan Cancer Foundation, the Leukemia Society of America, the North Carolina Health Center, a few others. I am not a foreigner to what I like to call social enterprises, but the bulk of my experience is marketing. I work with some nonprofits. In fact, I work with one in Fort Collins, Colorado, and another one in Florida. We talk about profit. We have to talk about profit in the charity business because that is where sustainability comes from. You can’t constantly be fundraising and burning it all up. You have to make enough revenue to build some reserves so that you have money that you can count on in those lean times. As you know, it gets leaner and leaner and tougher and tougher as more and more charities and social enterprises come to life. Everybody is fighting for similar dollars. Marketing and the word “profit” have to go hand in hand. To give you an idea, up until five or ten years ago, most of the large national social enterprises were relying on their “brand”, their label, their logo to be their representative. A couple of the big ones, the American Heart Association and others, started building some directives and policies around their brand control and brand messaging. The key to the whole thing in my opinion is that most of today’s charities don’t really understand the word brand. Brand is a lot more than just the logo or the picture or whatever it is they believe they stand for. It looks like you want to interject something. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NPE SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium Hugh Ballou: Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. This is the Nonprofit Exchange. We have a special episode today. I have some friends on here, and maybe some more who will come during the time. We are talking about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. We have done them all over the country, and I have some friends here who have attended and who have been presenters. I wanted to get some first-hand testimonies about what they have experienced and what we are going to experience. Let me introduce the panelists today. First, my co-host Russell Dennis. Welcome, Russell. Russell Dennis: It’s December 19th, and we are rolling closer to the big day. It’s been a very good year. Hugh: It’s been a very good year for you. Russell: Yeah. It’s been a good year in a lot of ways. I have had some challenges. But when you focus on the good, you don’t give into the challenges. Hugh: You’re an inspiration. I should call you every day to get inspiration. You always have good inspiration. One of your neighbors and our mutual friends is Flo Lattery. She is also in Denver, Colorado, the Mile High City. Flo, welcome. Flo Lattery: Thank you, Hugh. Good to be here. Hugh: Down in Clearwater, Florida, we have the one and only David Dunworth. Marketing Partners is your company. David Dunworth: That’s correct. Marketing Partners. Glad to be here with all of you and all of our viewers. Looking forward to a great interview session today. Hugh: Super. We are going to talk about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. First, we don’t give dates on the podcast. We’ll send people to the page, and you can find the dates because people might be listening to this podcast a year from now. We do 12 a year, 12 of these one-day events somewhere in the country, everywhere from southern California to New York City to Chicago to Florida. I have done two in Melbourne and two in Vero. Those are repeat locations for us. David, we might want to consider the other coast, St. Pete, Clearwater, Tampa, somewhere on that side. David: I think it would be valuable to spread our wings across the state because there are a lot of people I think might be able to use our message. Hugh: Absolutely. We are uppin’ the format of it. I have upped the game as I have gone through the process for the last 18 months to two years. There is a handout/workbook that you are all familiar with. In the workbook, I have started out with what I have learned in 31 years of doing this. When I have had David be a presenter and Russell twice, I have learned there are other people who have had really good content. I have had some good presenters in Winston-Salem and Vero and Melbourne. I also had Shannon Gronich; she couldn’t be here as she is on another live event right now with the Chamber down in Palm Bay. We are going to have more presenters. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Beverly D. Burgess – Grant Writer, Grant Teacher, and “The Grant Guru” Former State of Florida Executive Administrator, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, State of Florida Grant Writer and Federal Grant Writer, Bureau of Apprenticeship Former State of Florida Partnerships with NASA, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida CO-Programs Developer, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida Students Recording Certification Specialist, Bureau of Apprenticeship Beverly D. Burgess brings over forty-two years to the table, in the grant writing arena. She worked for the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship Division, for over twelve years.  Ms Burgess also trained as an expert corporate grant writer by the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship, she has built relationships and partnerships with many world’s corporate CEO’s their companies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Nonprofit Exchange Book Reviews Watch the Episode [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kcnaut1Sb4[/embed] Read the Episode Hugh Ballou: Greetings, we’re back with The Nonprofit Exchange. This time, Russell and I have been wrestling with this for a while. We have had so many great guests that it’s hard for us to find a spot to do this. We wanted to, at least once or twice a year, highlight some great books. Some are from our guests, and some are not. We have six books for you today. The top five, and a bonus book. Greetings, Russell. I will say hi first. Russell Dennis: Greetings. Welcome, all of our friends out there on Facebook and everywhere. Thank you for joining us. It’s a great day. I am just moved by all the birthday messages that have come in for me today. Hugh: Today? Russell: Today is the day. I wanted to give a shout-out to all the people—business associates, family, friends. Thank you very much. It’s been a great journey, but it’s better because of you. And all the people who join us every week to support The Nonprofit Exchange. Hugh: Congratulations. We’ll try not to embarrass you today. So you have three books, and I have three books. We will share a bit about each book in a brief synopsis. It’s not meant to be a thorough book review. It’s Hugh and Russ lifting out reasons why you should read this book. While we are queuing up, we are talking about leaders reading. Do you want to say more about that? Russell: That is part of a growing organization and transformational leaders always evolve. They set the table so that people who are in the organizations can evolve. Personal development is one of the reasons that people might volunteer with you or serve on your board because you’re either growing or going backward. Some would go as far as to say you’re either growing or dying. It’s important to increase that knowledge base. What I’ve discovered as I grow is that I don’t know more every day, but that’s perfectly all right. We want to bring you these resources. We’d like to make it a regular segment. Many of our guests have come on with books. We want to talk to them. Oprah Winfrey did it well with her book club. Maybe some of these people we can bring back to talk about their books because there is so much fascinating literature out there. We have six pretty good picks to talk about today, don’t we, Hugh? Hugh: We do. The other part about leaders read is I listen to a lot of podcasts. Our friend Ken Courtright has one called Grow Your Business Today. He says he reads a book with a highlighter. When he goes back and reads it again, he uses a different color highlighter. He highlights different things because he is ready to learn the next thing. I find that to be so very true. There are a lot of challenges. We will highlight six. Maybe in a few months, depending on comments from our listeners, we will highlight a few more. Let’s list the books to get our listeners’ interests up. What are your three? Then I will share my three. Russell: I have three great ones. The first one is Asking Rights by Tom Ralser. He wrote a book before that called Return on Investment for Nonprofits. The second book is The Guide to Proposal Writing from The Foundation Center. It is a classic. It is a staple. It is the book on writing grants. There are a lot out there, but this one is pretty powerful. And because everyone loves numbers so much, I have a wonderful book by Mark Mullen called The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit. Everyone just loves those numbers so much. Hugh: That is awesome. Mine are more generic. We teach nonprofit leaders to install really good business practices in their organization. The first one is Twist by Julie Cottineau, who we had as a guest a while back. That’s about who we are, our identity, and our promise to people. It’s good for nonprofits to think about that. I don’t guess many do that I have ever known. The second one is a good book by my leadership coach who has been our guest, Roberta Gilbert. The whole leadership methodology by psychiatrist Murray Bowen, M.D. It’s called Extraordinary Relationships. It’s the anchor for us knowing ourselves. The third one, and I live in Virginia, and up the road from me is where Napoleon Hill grew up. The Napoleon Hill Foundation. A couple years ago, we had Don Green, who is the executive director of the Napoleon Hill Foundation. I don’t know about you Russell, but I find over and over again that nonprofit leaders have not heard of the work of Napoleon Hill, who interviewed 500 of the top leaders in the world and created this methodology. Those are the three. Which one do you want to start with? Pick one of those awesome books. Russell: I am going to jump right into Asking Rights by Tom Ralsin. One of the questions that people should answer in that: Why should I give you money? It was posed to him early in his career. It’s that view of how do you view the people that fund you? Tom’s premise is that what you really have are investors. I know a lot of people think of donors. Donors are investors. They are partnering with you to make an impact. When you look at monies that people contribute to you, or talent—there is time, talent, and treasure—when people contribute one of these three things or a combination of them, they are making an investment in you and betting on your team. What can you do? You have different groups of investors. Donors are just one type of investor. You have different funders. It could be pure investors or people funding you through grants or sponsors or memberships. Those are people who invest in you. When it comes to funding a nonprofit, what matters is not what the nonprofit themselves thinks. It’s what it is that people are getting. What do the people who are writing the checks think about what it is that you’re doing? They’re investing in you. What are people who are getting the services think? It’s not about us. We always have to have an eye toward whether we are making a profit. I know profit sounds like a dirty word, but Tom talks of it as a return on investment. That’s what people who are banking on us are looking at. They are looking at the return. They contribute to help us keep our doors open as nonprofits. This book is about more how to successfully fund a nonprofit. He is talking about a lot of different areas. He is talking about sustainable funding. It’s important to capture the ideas of what value means to the different audiences that you have. From this perspective, it’s about the people who invest in you. How do you sustain that? What are different funding pathways? What are you open to in terms of learning, in terms of growing, and thinking about what’s important to the people who are writing these checks? Look at the view from the other side of the desk. It doesn’t matter if it’s a corporation or a foundation. Everyone has their motivations. It’s looking at that to figure out what’s important. He spent a lot of time doing this. When he wrote ROI for Nonprofits, he looked at a lot of these areas. But from the point he wrote that book to the point he wrote this one, he made some other discoveries along the way in terms of what makes people fundraising-ready. He had criteria. He is a nonprofit consultant who helps people raise more money. He has a 20-question list of criteria he uses to determine if an organization is ready. If they can’t check off on all 20 areas, he won’t take their money. He will talk about which areas need to be shored up and go back to doing that. This book talks about those 20 areas, which are important to fundraisers and establishing that value that you bring. This is a very good book to read. I think when we sit down, we look at the value that we give people who are constituents of ours as a nonprofit. You have the people who directly get the benefits; you have those who write the checks to pay for them. That could be corporations, foundations, government entities, social entrepreneurs, donors. Each of these different groups have a different set of values or perspectives on what’s important. What he is talking about here is understanding that and not changing who you are, but explaining in your own language how you are bringing value and incorporating what matters to them. It’s not necessarily about us if we are doing services for people. This is a very good book. Take a few hours to read. This is one you get the highlighter for. There are lots of things to think about and consider. And periodically go back to it and look at some of these things to remind yourself what are some of the questions we should be asking. Are we going to the people that make sense? If someone says, “What gives you the right to ask us for money?” if you have the building blocks in place, it will be pretty clear. This book gives you loads of building blocks. Hugh: Russell is the funding guru. He asks the questions that other people don’t ask. Some of what your methodology is is coming out through what you have picked out of this book. What do potential funders want to see? You take it to the board. What do board members want to get out of this? That is important. Share with us some of your disciplines for reading books. You have an extensive library. When I talk to you, you often quote books, even in these interviews. What is your discipline? Do you read every day, or a certain time a week? Russell: I don’t know if you remember back when our auto industry started having hiccups. They were talking about the concept of just-in-time learning. I found all sorts of fascinating stuff on interest areas. I get a number of services. I’m always looking at books because it’s really important to be open to learning on the fly. Increasing my knowledge base on nonprofits has always been important. New developments take place. Thinking shifts. I continue to collect books. I have library cards in two counties. Public libraries are the best investment running for our tax dollars. I am always on the lookout for new articles, new information, new books. A cross-pollination of ideas across different publications and books. I have run across great TED Talks. There is so much out there. The world is our oyster now thanks to technology, which is aggravating when it doesn’t work, but a thing of beauty when it does. I am constantly learning. Readers lead, and I have my nose in a book. I can highlight on a computer. I read with pens and highlighters. A lot of notes in the margins of my hard copies. Some of them are a little dog-eared. I like to read a lot of books on learning. Those are some I can highlight, too. As we go along and we are building a resource area, we’d love to hear about what some of you folks out there who tune in are reading. All of you in the community, what are you reading? What do you want to know more about? We’re always open to that, and finding new resources. That is what the community is all about. Sharing that knowledge base and all those wonderful resources that are all out there. Now there is so much information flying at us from all directions. Where do we start? People don’t need new information. They need somebody to help us carve out the most important pieces and assemble it in a way that will help them get to where they need to go. That is one thing I pride myself on being able to do: a possibility engineer. Hugh: The possibility engineer. The podcast is supported by sponsors. The sponsor today is SynerVision’s online community for community builders. *Sponsor message* We have interviewed Julie Cottineau. Her book is Twist. She is a branding specialist. She was in charge of North American branding for Virgin Airlines and a number of other big deals. Now she does her own brand. Her book is available on Amazon. The full name is Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. She has this color theme that goes throughout it. Twist is mentioned on about every page of her book. Lots of color throughout. I asked her what are the top three branding mistakes that people make? She said it’s hard to keep it to three. She said the mistakes that nonprofits are making. We talked about not really understanding what a brand is. Confusing your brand with your marketing. That’s a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, and your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? If we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. She develops this concept in the book. I couldn’t put it down when I got it. You could build my nonprofit twist. That’s what you want to do. If I only had 10 times the budget, people say. That’s a big mistake. Stop saying that. I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what is different about you, then it’s a waste of money. She goes on to say that your brand is not your logo. Your brand is your fundamental story. So many nonprofits will show me this logo as their brand. That is a representation of your brand. Your brand is represented by your logo. That is one way. But most importantly, your brand is your brand promise. Julie has what she calls Brand School. People go through her school, which is a live event, where you do the nuts and bolts of branding. On her website, BrandTwist.com, she has the Nike logo. It’s not about sneakers. It’s about their story. On the interview on the podcast, we talk about her points about branding. It’s really a course on branding. When you go to her website, she offers you an evaluation of her brand. It’s called BrandTwist.com. She will do an evaluation. But the book, it helped me understand all that stuff I was doing wrong, Russell. I have a good logo, but that’s not my brand. The other part of brand we work with is the culture and leadership. Everyone on your board, everyone in your organization, represents your brand. We have heard of airlines dragging people off seats. That one event by one person did enormous brand damage, as our guest David Corbin said. That was brand slaughter. Next time, we will review his book. It’s out there, makes you think about it seriously. Brand slaughter is when people misbehave or act out of brand promise. They have damaged your brand. I recommend Twist. Russell, back to you. Russell: She said that twist is your most important tool. There is a lot in there. The questionnaire is brilliant. That is a great book to look at. The second book I was looking at was The Foundation Center’s Guide to Proposal Writing. It’s a staple for anybody that writes grants. They wrote the book on that. They are probably the best source bar none for information on foundations and corporate programs that are out there and what they are doing. They talk you through some strategies for working on your proposal and some activities outside of the proposal itself, things that you need to consider while you are putting these proposals together. The meat and potatoes of what they offer, and there are loads of examples of successful proposals that have been submitted, where they show you these particular areas of the proposal they are talking about. For grants, you want to make sure you have all of the parts. You want to have your credible programs. There are elements to show you are ready for funding that they address. You have the correct structures in place; you are clear on your mission, vision, and values. They roll into the various parts of the proposal, one being the executive summary. The executive summary is the highlight reel for your proposal. It’s the piece that you would want to write last because it really drills down into what it is that you’re doing, so you want to be clear on that. But it has different pieces in it. What you are looking at in the executive summary, you want to highlight the whole enchilada. What is the problem you are solving? Then describe your solution. How much you need, your organization’s key assets and people. You write this last. That is the first piece. The statement of need comes next. It should be short and persuasive. As short and persuasive as you can make it without taking anything away from what you are trying to do. You provide information that supports your cause, your business case, any relevant information like business stats. You collect the best sources of information in that statement of need. What will help you make that case? What information are you gathering? Are you focused on numerical and quantitative stuff, or are you focused on qualitative? For building that need statement, find the most authoritative and recent sources of information you can find so that it adds strength to your proposal. The project description will be the longest piece of it. It is your approach to what you are going to do. What you keep in the project description is your objectives. What are the measurable targets you are trying to reach? What are the methods you are going to use to get there? What do you need in terms of staffing and administration? The next piece is evaluation. How do you know what you’re doing is successful? Are you getting the work done? Finally, you address the sustainability piece. Is this going to be an ongoing project, or how are we going to be able to keep this project rolling after the funding piece is gone? The next piece is the evaluation. That really gets an area all to itself because this is where measures are important. The view that a lot of people take on the evaluation piece of the puzzle is that we have to check these boxes just to make the funder happy. It’s a necessary evil. But the proper view in my estimation is to think of it as a way to figure out what is working, what is not working, how we can get better at what we do, what’s going on out there, what have we learned based on research that has been done, and can we create our own measures? If you don’t create your own, other people will create them for you. In being unique and doing something unique, the measures that you have in mind may not fit exactly. The other thing to keep in mind is can my people use them? Can we employ them in the field? Will they be useful in the field for people who are delivering services? That is a good place to collect information, if it makes sense. The key is it all depends on the funder. When you read a request for a proposal—this is the funding agency’s description of what they want to accomplish with their investments—they set some standards and criteria. You want to see if it’s in alignment with what you do. You determine a level and type of valuation that is needed. You determine whether the evaluation is on the project you create. Maybe you create a product or program that moves people to a different place. Or maybe it’s a process. You have to decide if you are evaluating a program, process ,or both. Then there is quantitative data, numerical-based data. We have qualitative data that may be based on people through third-party evaluations or questionnaires. There should be linear when you talk about evaluation from start of the project to end of the project. The evaluation should take place all the way through. When you start off, you should have a vision for where you want people to go. The professional term is the theory of change. What is going to happen when people take advantage of this program we are offering? Where is it going to move them to? It’s a question of funder preferences. You can do this evaluation in-house, or maybe you bring a third party on. A lot of things make sense. They also talk about the budget. Of course, your budget ought to be aligned with your objectives. It should be reasonable based on the work you do. There are a lot of expenses. You want to measure those expenses, whether they are new costs or ongoing costs, whether they are direct or indirect. What revenue sources do you have? Here, they talk more about other things because the proposal is to get revenue. When you make a budget, you want to think about revenue. Not only will you be addressing the budget for the project, but most of the time, when you write a proposal, they want to see the budget for the entire organization so they can see how your project fits in with the overall budget. Are they going to be the only people contributing money? How does the money that you’re requesting fit in with the rest of your projects and programs and overall strategy? It’s all about tying the strategy pieces together. That is critical. This is probably the only book you will ever need. Me being me, I read all sorts of things on this. But you would be hard-pressed to find a book better than this one that explains to you the process of writing grants. Hugh: Awesome. That is your sweet spot, your area of expertise, and experience. I teach transformational leadership, as I’m sure you do. There are two fundamental methodologies that we rally around at SynerVision. Transformational leadership is the culture of an orchestra or choir. It functions at a higher level. In order for that to happen, the leader must function up. The orchestra is a reflection of the conductor. The board and the organization we lead is a reflection of our leadership as a leader. Oftentimes, leaders complain about their boards not functioning in the matter they would expect them to, or how the board functions itself to function. I typically ask what is your role in that? People look at me like I’m crazy. No, you look in the mirror. If the conductor doesn’t get the sound they want, they start looking at themselves. What they see is what I get. They respond to me as a conductor. To be an effective transformational leader, there are other books we can review by authors who are long dead, so we can’t interview them. We will talk about Bowen systems. My coach is Roberta Gilbert. She has a number of books on Bowen systems. She is a psychiatrist and has written books about Bowen methodologies. It’s called Bowen Family Systems, and there is a Bowen Institute at Georgetown University. It’s a methodology still unfolding. People write papers and study it. Transformational leadership is dependent on the leader stepping up. Bowen systems is how leaders step up. Those systems are compatible. After 12 years, I still work with Roberta as my personal coach. I continue to read her books over and over. My wife and I have been through this together, and we share things and learn from each other. We learn from experiences. Learning something and living with it for a period of time has maximum impact. I would say if you are leading a church or nonprofit, you can’t do it without this book, without this methodology. You cannot be the leader you were created to be without knowing yourself. It’s studying ourselves from our family of origin. In the book, she talks about Bowen’s heritage, what led him from family therapy to this leadership research. She talks about herself and her journey and her work as a colleague of Murray Bowen. Now she is a purist. She teaches exact Bowen theory. There are other people who have rewritten it for their purposes in their books. That’s okay. I have rewritten transformational leadership in my books as a conductor. Ultimately, leaders transform cultures, transform themes. It begins with self-transformation. Extraordinary leadership helps you understand yourself. When I first started this, I had written my books, defined my methodology. Everything is working well. Why do I need to study something else? My wife said, “I’m going.” I guess I better go. Just find out what it’s about. It took me a whole year to wrap my head around this. I am a slow learner, but I was too blind with what I was already doing. All of a sudden, it dawned on me that I would be a better leader if I would embrace this. I would be able to transform myself in a more appropriate and direct way. This is more permanent. Over time, we continue to learn. In her book, she talks about the eight concepts of Bowen systems. She starts out with triangles, the basic building block of human relationships of three people. They are neither bad nor good; they’re neutral. If anxiety is present, it goes around the triangle. If there is a power play, one person takes a power position in the triangle. When you start seeing things out of balance, look at where the triangles are, and the overlapping triangles. The second one is differentiation of self. Who are we? Have we defined our principles for decision-making? Our principles define how we’re going to make decisions. If I am in the face of conflict, I stay calm and approach the conflict open and directly. Stick to the facts. Before this, I avoided conflict, and it got worse. Basic self is adhering to our fundamental guiding principles. Pseudo-self is when we make a decision to please somebody, which is not a good choice. They are never pleased. It tends to irritate them and everybody else when you cave into what other people are pushing you to do. Differentiation of self is how we are not fused with our spouse, our best friend, our parents, our dead parents. We cease to be an individual. Fusion is how we act in a matter that we think the other person wants us to act, and we can’t break out of that. There is the multi-generational transmission process. I am the son of a CPA who is the son of a CPA. I broke the thread. It’s very linear: good/bad, left/right. Mom was not linear. What am I? I am a mixture of both. Rigid structure, got to be creative without breaking the rules. Multi-general transmission process. What happens at the graveyard in the little town my mom was in when I was born. The McPhersons, which is my middle name. I heard the stories of multiple generations, and I learned about myself. It’s not bad or good. Just learning about self. There is the family generation process. There is a number of principles, concepts that Bowen identifies. He teaches the concepts. The last one is societal degeneration. We are seeing that one play out. He didn’t finish writing that one. Sibling position. I am the oldest brother of brothers. He didn’t start this, but he did more research on how we know ourselves based on our family of origins. There is the family generation process, and there is the differentiation of self, which is basically what it’s all about. Who are we? How do we show up? We really show up like we did in our family of origin. So does everybody else. This helps us understand people. We don’t correct other people. We don’t type them. We don’t categorize them. We try to understand them, and we observe behaviors. That helps us observe without getting it on you. A couple of Bowen quotes: “That which is created in a relationship can be fixed in a relationship.” “You have inherited a lifetime of tribulation. Everybody has inherited it. Take it over. Take the most of it. When you have decided that you know the right way, do the best you can with it.” I said the basic overfunctioning. I meet leaders that say here are the goals, here is how you get there, go to work. They tell people what to do. That is a form of overfunctioning. Never do what someone else can do for themselves. Oh, I always ought to be willing to do stuff that I ask other people to do. The key word is “willing.” Every time you do something, you rob a volunteer of an opportunity to do something they want to do. Back to Russell’s premise earlier. Find out what people want. Let them do it. This is the antithesis of Freud. If you see a Freud therapist, he/she says, “How does that make you feel?” Bowen says, “It’s okay to have empathy, but get out of it quickly.” Feeling decisions are faulty decisions. Thinking decisions are well-grounded, principle-based decisions. The goal is to rise up out of the emotional together to find what gathers us all. We need to calm down, be in control of ourselves, and be calm and present. He says, “In the history of calming down, has anyone ever calmed down by being told to calm down?” There is a lot of little gems. She quotes Bowen in every chapter. I have given you some concepts and some quotes. I think it is an essential book for leaders who want to step up their game and become a much better leader. Russell, what do you think of that? Russell: That is an essential part. I went through the transformational leadership program on my journey to becoming a WayFinder. I had never heard of Murray Bowen. When I read this book, it was an eye-opener. The idea that all of these inputs from the family and positioning, it was completely foreign to me. I had no idea. These are things that were driving behavior under the surface. Transformational leadership is an area, a course in itself. There are five types of behaviors and standards that transformational leaders set as attributes. They are charismatic in their behaviors; inspirational; intellectually stimulating, they love to teach and help people grow; considerate of individuals; and are real. Very authentic. Authenticity is that fifth piece. This is something that would be great for you to read. It will help you up your leadership game. Leading with influence. Leaders are influencers. They don’t necessarily do everything, but they make sure that things get done. Hugh: What is your next book? Russell: Knowing as I said before how much people love numbers, the next book is The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit by Mark Mullen. He wrote this book a few years ago. It talks about how to build the budget. What are some of the things you need to consider? It’s not just about expenses. You have revenues. You have different types of budgets. It can be confusing to put together a budget for a nonprofit. A lot of people don’t always understand what their costs are. This book will help walk you through the purpose of a budget, a great overview. Talk about the types of budgets. You can have a traditional or a zero-base budget. Zero-base will come from not having any history. They talk about the different categories of funding. You have discretionary, non-discretionary. You have restricted incomes, and others that are unrestricted. Every year, you will be looking at the process of budgeting. If you have a rolling budget, which is tied to your goals and your objectives, it helps build accountability. You’re not just looking at the other things you are evaluating, but money comes into play, too. It shows people what they are getting for their investment. Sometimes, in a perfect world, you do the budget, and it stays the same. But sometimes things happen. So you have to revise it on the ground. The key is to have a process for working the budget. This book is very good at giving you a process for doing that. It will also talk about some of the work you need to do up front. If you have a good accountant. A lot of things are driven out of your chart of accounts. Your chart of accounts defines everything that comes in and goes out. Your chart of accounts is where you do this. They talk about general accounts. The types of accounts. Asset, liability, income, equity, and expense. There is a little bit of accounting around it. They talk about accounting methods and advantages and disadvantages of them. If you have an accountant on staff, that’s great. But there are full-charge bookkeepers from CPAs to others that you can engage. Fractional CFOs. There are other ways to help you measure. It’s important to keep track of everything. What is recommended in here is what we call a rolling budget. You have a projection for what you will have come in and the timing. Then there is what actually comes in and goes out. By building this history of what you project and what actually comes in and goes out, you start getting better. You start recognizing what can drive costs and revenue. You can start to assess your program performance. It’s all about how you do it. There are a number of different types of revenue that go in to a nonprofit. Your programs, you have a block of programs. Some are profitable, and others are not. They talk about how to classify them. That’s important. You have an operational budget, which is your forecast for your services and your operating expenses, your fundraising budget, and your budget statement of financial activities. Then you have the financial budget, which has your cash flow, debt service, investments, and budgeted statement of financial position, your balance sheet. These are the working pieces. This is a really good product because it explains briefly but in good detail what all of these items are, and how they fit into what you’re doing. It also talks to you about how to create budgets for specific things. I built some of the models out of here into a fundraising course I put together. Having a good budget process is important. Having people on your board and on staff that understand budgeting is good. One of the items in here that people may have issue with is an operating reserve fund. It’s a cash reserve. The common term for it is surplus. It’s having money left over at the end of the year. This is a no-brainer for people that are running businesses. Nonprofit circles don’t think about that. The business term for it is profit. It’s great to have that. You need that rainy day fund. You want to try to work that in because things can shift, particularly if you are dealing with government funding. Even with corporate funding, the economy can change. You want to be prepared for any shifts that might take place and have some revenue to operate in in any unforseen circumstances. One that we have seen a lot is over the last couple of years is weather. You have a weather event that throws everything in your community off. How are you going to be able to reopen your doors? Having a surplus is important. What about long-term things? You may need to replace furniture equipment, vehicles. All of these things wear out. You want to have a capital budget for any large purchases that you’re going to make, or repairs to your building. Getting equipment. You never know what sort of things you’re going to need. This particular publication walks you through all of that. You prepare a master budget and program budgets. Everything needs to be tied into your strategic plan, so you have operating and financial budgets. This is a wonderful book because there are a lot of graphics in it. You have charts. Show, don’t tell. You can see the flow. All of the information is easy to understand. If you have a financial professional accountant to help you through this process, that is even better. Your budget should be tied to all of your activities. Hugh: Wise words indeed. I find lots of deficits. We have a perfect amount of time for the last book. Here is the bonus book. We did interview Don Green at the Napoleon Hill Center. He is published some of Napoleon Hill’s unpublished writings. There are quite a few of them. You and I have been at CEO Space where leadership guru Bob Proctor carries the book out and reads it every day. It’s staying in tune with the philosophy. Jim Rohn said you have to have three books in the library: Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh, and The Bible. Collections of wisdom. Napoleon Hill is Think and Grow Rich. It’s a collection of his philosophies of achievement, his laws of success. He lists the attributes of wealth, and money is the last one. I think there are 13 attributes because he said it’s the least important. We put down money. We think of it as not necessary in the nonprofit world because of the word “nonprofit.” It’s like trying to run a car with no gas. My analogy is the money is the gas for the car. We’re not getting rich. We’re building assets that are the backbone of our stability and our legacy. We’re doing something that will last after we’re gone. You read chapter two with the attributes for success: have a definite purpose; do something good that brings value to humankind; keep a positive mental attitude; and surround yourself with successful people. I find there are many people in the work of charities who have never heard of Napoleon Hill and his writings. He did a radio show for many years, and there is a book called Napoleon Hill on the Air that has recently been released. But you can get it on Audible, the audio recordings of him doing things. It is a transcription of his interviews. He is talking about the laws of success and giving him examples. The interviewer asked him pointed questions. Think and Grow Rich is chock-full of things. He met Andrew Carnegie, who gave him lessons of introduction to all of his successful friends like Ford, Wanamaker, Woolworth, five presidents, JP Morgan. There were lots and lots of people that Napoleon went in and interviewed. He developed these laws of success. He has some quotes throughout the book that are so important. “Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice. Never a result of selfishness.” “Desire is the starting point of all achievement. Not a hope, not a wish, but a keen, pulsating desire which transcends everything.” We worry about failing. He said, “Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit.” As you were talking about strategy, “First comes thought. Then the organization of that thought into ideas and plans. Then the transformation of those plans into the reality. The beginning as you observe is in your imagination.” Sometimes that is where we stop. Here is the famous one, “What the mind of a person can conceive and believe, it can achieve.” It all starts with a belief system. That’s where it starts. That is one percent inspiration, 99% perspiration. We leverage with other people. I find people start out and don’t have a team around them. That is so key. Definite purpose, very clear plan, like you said. Bring something that is valuable to the world. Have a positive mental attitude. Failure is not an option. Surround yourself with people better than you. What my friend Russell Dennis says is if you’re the best person on the team, you better run because you are not going anywhere. Russell, you’ve given some great insights. These are great books. We’ll list the books on the webpage. We encourage people to read them. There are a few pennies that benefit SynerVision if you buy on our portal through our Amazon Affiliate Program. Russell, thank you for pulling these books up and sharing some great wisdom today. Russell: Yes, it’s been fun. We’ve been kicking this around. I’m glad we got it done. We’d love to hear more about what you’re reading, what’s important to you, what you’ve learned from these books. Think and Grow Rich is where the concept of the mastermind came from, by surrounding yourself with people that are very wise. If I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run and get into another room. I am in the wrong room. Thank you for joining us. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Philanthropy Misunderstood by Bob Hopkins The word PHILANTHROPY isn’t new, but many think being a philanthropist is about money. In Bob Hopkins’ new book, he assures us it IS NOT. He and 100 of his friends define, by way of their good deeds, that philanthropy is about LOVE OF MANKIND. Philanthropy Misunderstood is a 256-page coffee- table book that will surely entertain and inform you. You won’t want to put it down. It is colorful and exciting. “Bob Hopkins Introduces us to 100 plus new best friends…people like you and me who give of themselves who actually LOVE others. What a joyful time Bob shares with us. Optimism and hope emerge from every page. Each person’s story sparkles. Each one makes us prouder to be fellow ‘homo-sapiens’.” Dr. Claire Gaudiani, philanthropist, author and international lecturer. Bob recalls his first experience with his mother when he was five years old in Garden City, Kansas as they delivered groceries to a poor family during the holidays. He remembers the pat on the back he received from someone for doing good. “Maybe it was God,” he recalled. For more information, go to Philanthropy Misunderstood.   Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Wow. This is going to open your mind to a whole new world. I just met Bob Hopkins recently on a recent trip to Dallas. Some of our previous guests that started Barefoot Winery said, “You have to meet Bob.” When I was in Dallas, I rang him up, and we met. They had shared his book with me called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I thought it was a nice book. When I started digging into the stories and what Bob knew about philanthropy, I said, “We have to share this with other people.” Bob, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about you and your passion. Bob Hopkins: Thank you, Hugh. I am so honored to be invited to be here with you as your guest today. I am glad to know that there are some other people in the book in your audience today. I am an older person. I have been around for a long time. Every 20 years, I ask myself, “What am I doing, and where am I going?” I have divided myself into four different segments of my life. I am on the last 18 years. I give myself another 18 years to live. I am trying to figure out what to do, so I am probably going to go to a seminar called PSI in June to find out what I’m going to do next. But, Hugh, I have been involved with this word “philanthropy” for the last 45-50 years. I learn more about what it means all the time. Then I became confused and realized that what I thought philanthropy was is not. Or maybe it is part of, but that’s why I had to dig into it and tell stories of 108 people who actually do philanthropic things for other people. That’s what this book is about. Hugh: How long have you been engaged in the nonprofit arena with leaders and different kinds of organizations? Bob: I came to Dallas in 1984. I had just been involved as the director of development on the National Council of Alcoholism and learned all about this word called “fundraising” and philanthropy. Found out that the two of them are together as one word and one meaning, and they are also separate things. Some people get them mixed up. They think that fundraising is about money, but so is philanthropy. I have learned that philanthropy can be about money, but largely not. Instead, it’s doing good things for others. That’s how I got involved with this. I have been in Dallas for 38 years, and I have been working in raising money and now writing a book. I did a magazine called Philanthropy in Texas for a while. Every decade, I learned a little bit more about what that word means. Hugh: Bob, you and I are in our mid-70s, we’ll say. We could be sitting back, chilling, and not doing anything. But you and I have a passion for being engaged. Why aren’t you sitting around? You’re teaching classes, and the stuff that you’re asking your students is really profound. You’re active with some local charities still. Why is this important to you? Bob: I don’t know. I do it because I don’t know what else to do. I do play tennis, and I do ride horses. Those are two of my hobbies. I do spend time doing those two things every week, so it’s not like I’m constantly thinking about philanthropy, even though I have a horse named Philanthropy. I watch the USTA, and did you know the USTA is a nonprofit organization? They wouldn’t survive if they didn’t get contributions from people. They do good for others. I guess I’m involved with philanthropy pretty much all the time, even though it’s my joy. I love doing it. I like talking about it. I like telling people about it. I like finding people who are doing different new things. I have found so many people over my 40 years that I decided to put them in a book. That’s where Philanthropy Misunderstood came from. Hugh: I’ve had the joy of visiting a couple. The whole family does this water project. I won’t get into it, but I want you to tell people. You called them up and said, “You have to meet Hugh.” I went over there, and it was an amazing visit with the whole family. I met the couple. I didn’t meet the kids, but I have heard about them and their involvement. How about highlighting some of the stories? Let’s talk about this one first; they will be guests on the show in June. It’s folding paper. How does that help people? Bob: This is a crazy story, and it’s a fabulous story. It’s been so fabulous that it’s been on Good Morning America. Neiman Marcus actually helped these girls sell these ornaments that are called origami that they make. Their church and schools make them with them. They have volunteers of hundreds of people who do nothing but help make origami, and they sell the origami for $50-$75 a piece. To date, they have raised over $2 million building water wells to actually give water around the world. 170 different water wells in 17 or 18 different countries. These girls are 15, 13, and 10 years old. They started it when they were 4, 5, and 6 because Daddy is part Japanese. He said, “We need to do some origami.” One thing led to the other. I’m not sure what the other is and how detailed you have to get in to find out what the thinking was of the parents, about involving their children in making these origami. That’s their life. It is now their life. These girls are so smart because they are in a business. The 15-year-old is the president of the foundation. It’s a cool thing. Hugh: I went to visit the whole house and the project. These volunteers come in to do the folding. It’s engaged people in a focus. I don’t know if the people come in and do that right now, but maybe the family can do more while the kids are out of school. There is another story in here that has a big picture, and it’s Bonnie and Michael with Barefoot Winery. They were guests a couple months ago, and they were the ones who connected us. Tell the story about how you got connected and their story in the book. Bob: It’s so interesting because Eric is actually the one who introduced me to Bonnie and Michael. He was the marketing director of Barefoot Wine. What Bonnie and Michael did, when they couldn’t sell the wine, because nobody wanted to buy it because there was no place to buy it, and liquor stores didn’t want to buy it because nobody was asking for it. They started giving it away to charities on the beach in beach towns, mainly starting in Florida. He would give it to them for free, and he said, “If you like it, go to your grocery stores and tell them to buy it.” Long story short, over 15 years, it became the #1 wine in America. Bonnie and Michael did it through giving wine away to charitable causes. I know that they had a marketing plan here. They said, “This is cause-related marketing,” which are words we used to use. They didn’t really know it was philanthropy because they really wanted to sell wine. But it also made them feel good, too. I have taken Bonnie and Michael on a philanthropy trip to Mexico. So I got to watch them in action. It didn’t have to do with wine; it had to do with building schools and painting houses for people in Mexico. It’s a great story. They are in the book, and they should be. Hugh: The book is what you would call a coffee table book. It is hardbound. It’s a $45 book. The quality of printing and the quality of the stories and an amazing layout and design. It should be $100. It’s one of these treasures. My fourth book, which you have a copy of, Transforming Power, I teach people how to do things. I got to a point where I said, “Hmm, people want to be inspired by stories.” That’s one of the premises behind this show is for people to tell their stories. There are people out there in the trenches who are struggling to make ends meet, to pull people together, to rally volunteers, to rally their boards, to rally their funders. Let’s talk a bit about this title and what’s behind it. What is the biggest misunderstanding on both sides, the funder and people seeking funding? Bob: It started with me. I was always told that philanthropy was about money. I started a magazine in Texas all about people who had money and gave it away. I would come into my staff and say, “I think we need to do Boone Pickens on the cover of the magazine. And the first question was, “How much money does he give away?” That was the common question. That was whether or not we were going to put him in the book on how much money they gave away. Finally, after a while, I realized, You know what? I know a lot of people who do so much more than writing a check. They’re never recognized. I have this incredible woman from Houston named Carolyn Farb who spends 26 hours a day helping people learn how to raise money, but also build a hospital, and do all kinds of things. She is not known to be a huge giver, even though she is a giver; therefore, her picture would not be on the front cover of anything because of money. But it would be because of the word “philanthropy.” I realized, because of Carolyn, that I was talking to the wrong people. I needed to be talking to people who were in the book. The people in the book probably give money as well, but that wasn’t what I wanted the focus on. I wanted them to tell me why they do what they do. Why do they build origami and build water wells around the world? They don’t get any money for it, and they don’t give any money. They give things. Well, they do give money because they raise money in their case. Bonnie and Michael, they give money, too. Instead, they gave wine. Chip Richey gives his time and effort and expertise in filmmaking. He’s made lots of films about the Indians and Oklahoma. He did things for me for my philanthropy courses. There is Jordie Turk who was a student of mine, who volunteered on his own dime to come to Dallas and video my launch party. His name is not even on the piece. But he did it. He loved it. He is happy about it. I think that’s what philanthropy does, moreso than what money does, is gives you joy. That’s what everybody says. I get so much more out of what I did than what I gave. Hugh: Philanthropy is both. We have to run the organization. It’s like having a car. You have to put gas in it. But there is a bigger piece to this. It’s not money alone. Sometimes, people want to give money to save their conscience. They want to be doing something, and they’re not really involved with it. So they want to buy a place. but buying a place and stepping up and working. Talk about the synergy of the two of those together. Bob: I’m a giver. But nobody would ever recognize me as a financial giver because I give $100 or $200 or $25 or $50 or whatever. I’m involved with a lot of organizations. I give not necessarily because I love the organization, but I love the person who is asking me. So I write a check in order to continue this relationship I have with this person as a friend or as a person who works with me. But when I actually take on a project and get my feet dirty and hands wet, and I go out and build something, or I paint, I come back tired, but for some reason, I give myself this secret pat on my shoulder and say, “You did good today, Bobby.” That’s what happened to me when I was five years old. My mother and I went to give groceries in a trailer park in Garden City, Kansas. We walked away, and I felt this hand on my shoulder. It was patting my shoulder, and it said, “You did good today, Bobby.” I looked around, and there was nobody there. That is the feeling I have gotten because of giving my time and efforts, as opposed to writing a check to get you off my back to say, “Go. I put my name someplace.” They go, “Oh wow, $100. Thank you so much.” Then they come back the next year and do the same thing. There is just a real difference between the people who are in the trenches and the people who aren’t. Hugh: I think it’s important to give at any level. You say that you won’t get recognized for $25 or $50. But if we get a lot of people who support us with their time, talent, and money—you give your time, talent, and money. There is a triage there that are all magnified by each other. If you have the synergy, if you have one person who gives $25, great. If you have 1,000 people who give $25, then you are paying salary and rent and some operating costs. Then you can rev up the engines and focus on your mission. I do find a lot of charities are compromised in many ways, but as you know, the story of SynerVision is we want to empower leaders to step up to the level that they can take the organization. I noticed some of your students are here from the class, and I want to talk about them as well. There is a synergy in those three. We spend time teaching leaders how to raise the bar on their performance so we know how to engage people who are philanthropic-minded. There is a whole lot of stuff there. Jeff, “Bob has given many of us the gift of learning to give, and it is life-changing.” What a quote that is. Talk about your students. I got to sit in on three classes last week. You’re doing this Zoom group session education, which is quite remarkable. Your gracious spirit with them, and you see what’s inside them, and you see potential that maybe some of them don’t see in themselves. You said to me you challenged them to think about writing a eulogy, but you also mentioned doing some research on a nonprofit organization. There was a need for you to have to explain what that meant. What is a nonprofit organization? Talk a little bit about the class. Bob: I taught at a university here. I was teaching business and professional speaking. I decided I wanted to bring in my love and passion to the course. How am I going to bring my love and passion into the course when philanthropy is not in the syllabus? I included philanthropy in the syllabus. When you talk about business, you are going to talk about nonprofit businesses. They had never heard of a nonprofit business, even though they had. They knew what the Salvation Army and the Red Cross was. They knew what the Boys and Girls Club and Boy Scouts are. But they didn’t know they were nonprofit organizations. They didn’t know there were two million of them in the United States. They didn’t know that half of the things that are positive about our country is philanthropy. I said, “Okay, let’s have you all look at a nonprofit you are connected with.” They had no idea they were even connected with one. Landon is a new student this semester in my class right now. You asked him a question and asked him to talk when you were in my class. He did. He has a passion. You can feel it when he talks, about the things he does or can do and wants to do to serve people in our community. What I’m doing is there is maybe a small fire underneath them already, and I’m turning up the heat. They get passionate about it, and I empower them to do something about it once they learn about the fact that they can do it. They can do something on their own. Landon is one of those. He has several physical problems, and one of them is with his eyes. He picked a nonprofit organization that had to do with sight. He loves being involved with something he can connect with and understand. We all do. We all can. I am attention-deficit. There is a nonprofit organization and a school that has to do with children teaching children about dyslexia and Attention Deficit Disorders. There is something I can do. There is something everybody can do because we all have something that we are connected with, and we just didn’t know it. Hugh: I was going to come in and say hello, and I stayed the whole class for two of them. We are recording this in the middle of being sequestered home. It’s a time of refreshing, renewal, revising, and thinking about how when we go back to work, how we are going to define the new normal. We are leaders. We will reset the bar. I don’t think we’re going to go back to what we did before. Most of the people in the book didn’t do things in ordinary ways; that’s why they are in the book. These stories will inspire others not just to do the same old thing that they always had observed, but to think about what they bring to the table that’s really special. What is the new opportunity? Bob, let’s dig into some more of these stories. The book is divided into sections. Talk a little bit about why that is and why that’s important. Bob: I had some great people working with me. Tom Dolphins from Kansas City designed the book. The book is so attractive that people want to find out what it is. It’s not just the words, but it’s the design. And Ann Vigola from Lawrence, Kansas started out as my editor. She happened to be a student of mine prior to that. Ann spent a lot of time figuring out how to organize this book because as being an attention-deficit person, I have all this information up here. I didn’t know how to organize it. It was organized starting out with topics. We did One Day at a Time because I am a recovering alcoholic, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that topic. One Day at a Time also had to do with the AIDS epidemic. I had a brother who died of AIDS, and I wanted to focus on that. Every person in here has had something to do in my life. People would say, “You didn’t do so-and-so. They are such a great person.” I said, “I know, but I didn’t work with them.” All of these people, I worked with. All the stories in here, many of them, I had something to do with. Chip got me involved in the Phoenix Project, or maybe I got him involved, which was helping warriors coming home from war, connecting them with their spouses on retreats with horses and massages. Chip actually put together a video about this whole thing. I was involved with that. I went to the sweat lodges with these warriors and watched them connect and relate to each other. They are all stories I have been involved with in one way or another, and that’s one story I like a lot. Jordie worked with me with the poorest of the poor kids in Mexico in Guanajuato, Mexico, Leon. We would go to the poorest school, and I would tell the teachers, “I want to take your kids for just an hour once a week and bring in 20 of my students. We will teach them philanthropy.” We watched children change because of a handshake. Jordie was able to volunteer his time, even though he was a student of mine, to put this fabulous piece together that is on YouTube. These are all stories we were able to capture. I wish I’d had these two men together with me for all of the stories because somebody’s contacted me and said, “We need to make a movie here with these short stories.” Some of them still have long-lasting things. One of the people in Mexico said, “Just teaching a child to do a handshake and watch her change as a person week after week after week has changed me as a person,” she said. It does. When you do philanthropy, it changes you. Hugh: That’s a great sound bite. Serving churches in music ministry for 40 years, I took many mission trips. We went to give them, but we came back having received a lot more than we tried to give away. There is a reciprocity to giving. You’re a giver, but you’re blessed by your giving. You’re enriched by your giving. You give stuff away, but it really impacts you. When I am with you, you’re just full of energy. You’re this most passionate energized person purposeful person. What more about the book? Was there a story here delving into their story for the book, that really moved you more than any other story?   Bob: Yeah. We took a vote in our little group who put this book together, Ann, Tom, and I. There is one called “Bridging the Gap.” It is written by Morgan Herm. He is a schoolteacher. He talks about a bridge that is in Pennsylvania, where he lives. He would go and meditate there. On this bridge, he noticed that somebody had put in a letter between the planks. He opened the letter, and it was a letter that a person had written about them being able to become at peace with themselves because of meditating on this bridge. He put the letter back. Then there was a collection of letters that people would put in about how this bridge had brought them peace. It helped them through their divorce, or it helped them through their domestic violence. Morgan finally built a mailbox so people could put their letters in the mailbox. They could read each other’s letters. That’s philanthropy. That bridge serves as a philanthropic metaphor or example of peace and love. That’s one of my favorites, and it’s written so well because Morgan is an English teacher and writer. Hugh: Each contributor wrote their own story. Bob: They wrote their own stories. There was a couple of them that I wrote. There was a woman named Ruth Altschuter in Dallas who died last year. I wanted her in the book. So I went to her husband and said, “Would you write this for me?” He said, “No, I can’t write anymore. I don’t write.” I said, “Let me write Ruth’s story, and you approve it.” He said okay. But most people wrote their own stories. One lady wrote a story that I told her should be 1,000 words. It was 5,000 words. I read it and realized I couldn’t cut anything out. It’s the history of Swiss Avenue, which is one of the oldest historic districts in the United States. She called it, “Philanthropy Built Her Neighborhood.” It’s about how the mansions and big houses on Swiss Avenue became run-down in the ‘30s, ‘40s, and ‘50s. You could buy a piece of property here for $10 or 25,000, which are now going for $2 million, back in the old days. She wanted to tell the story about how it became a fabulous neighborhood that is looked upon as one of the premier places in the United States. It ended up being 10 pages, and I left the 5,000 words. It is the longest story. It wasn’t meant to be that way, but it’s really well done, so I didn’t cut it out. Hugh: You said here. Is it in Dallas? Bob: Yes. I live in that district. I live in the Swiss Avenue historic district. Hugh: Wow, that’s fascinating. Landon has a question. Landon, you’re live, so if you have your mic on, do you want to talk to us? Landon Shepherd: My question is, let’s say I have an idea for a nonprofit I would like to start. But I don’t really know exactly how or where to start it, or who to talk to about getting started with what I want to do. What would be your advice to some of the students who may have these ideas, but don’t know how to work out these ideas? Hugh: That question is for your professor? Landon: Either one of you guys. Hugh: We’ll tag-team on it. Go ahead, Bob. Bob: He’s a student of mine, and I will definitely have a talk about that. But we have in Dallas and in Fort Worth and every major city in the United States a center for nonprofit management. The centers for nonprofit management in each of the major cities are where people can go learn about giving and learn how to start an organization, a 501(c)3, the who, what, when, where, why. They have seminars all the time. You can go to the Community Foundation of Texas. You can go to the Dallas Foundation. These are other avenues of where people are experts in this. Yes, there is a way to do that. Landon, I will tell you who to contact here in Dallas. Hugh: There are centers like that in every city. There is also a universal presence called SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a blue button at the top of our page labeled, “Join.” We have this community with all kinds of resources. Sometimes, we find how to do strategy or how to do leadership or how to do fundraising or how to do a brand or marketing. We put it in one contiguous process so you don’t have to look around. You can look at our site and see if that suits you. Combine working in person with one of these centers Bob is talking about. That would give you a leg up. Bob, I know half of the nonprofits started each year will close ultimately. My take on it is they haven’t done a good job of looking at the market to make sure it’s not being duplicated, and they haven’t really activated their board and set themselves up for success. What is your idea of why some of those close? Bob: You’re right. They usually are started by people who don’t have any information. They have a passion, which you have to have for the topic. People who have cancer, they want to start a nonprofit organization that has to do with cancer and raise money in the name of somebody. The Susan G. Komen Foundation was started by Nancy Brinker here in Dallas because her sister Susan G. Komen had breast cancer. She told her before she died, “I am going to find you a cure for this.” What Nancy did was she surrounded herself with experts who knew how to put together a nonprofit. Now, it is the best one in the world. I can tell you five or six right off the top of my head that didn’t last for more than a year because they didn’t have a board of directors, they didn’t know how to do their paperwork, they started raising money without knowing how to be a fundraiser. Let me tell Landon and everybody this. There is an association called the Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP) in the United States. 35,000 professional fundraising people. I was a member of this group for most of my years as the president here in Dallas, and went to all the major conferences. There are conferences every year with AFP. There is a luncheon in most major cities every month that bring together all the people who raise money for the nonprofits in any city. There is a program with a speaker. It is a time to network, the people who have been there and done it before. That’s how you do it. Hugh: Building a network around you. There is a peer-to-peer network, which is great, but you want to have a network of people who are even better than you. In my case, it’s not hard to do. But hang around people who have been there, done that, and are experts. We have Jeffrey Fulgham watching who has a question. I want to allow you to talk. Jeffrey has been a member of that and is a certified fundraiser. Why is it important for you? You went through the certification process and studied development for so many years. Do you want to comment on the organization and why it’s so important for people to understand now? Jeffrey Fulgham: I have always looked at it as a cliché of the good housekeeping seal of approval. I think this gets more important every day. This needs to be a profession, and it needs to be professional, not just in fundraisers but in nonprofits. There has to be some standard. We hope it’s a standard of excellence, but there has to be some standard by which people can look and say, “Okay, this is an organization, or an individual, who is committed to certain principles, certain basic values, that transcend whatever it is that that organization is involved in.” Obviously, there are certain organizations whose values are going to be different than another one. But those values are related to the mission, not the operating strategy or the integrity of the entity or the integrity of the individuals working within it. What it allows us to do is create that standard. When someone looks at an organization, they have Guidestar to go to and the other metric organizations. But they also have a way to look and say, “Hey, this is what these organizations support. These are the values they support. This organization belongs to them and subscribes to these values. They subscribe to certain values. They set the standard.” Of course, the CFRE sets the standard as well. I think it’s important for people who are giving, but also for people who want to get involved as volunteers, who want to go work somewhere. Do you want to work for an organization who subscribes to certain values and has that level of integrity? That’s the main reason why I think it’s all important. Hugh: Great. Before I let you go back into your listening mode, do you have a question for our guest today about philanthropy or about his book? Jeffrey: You know, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this book. I’m definitely going to have to get a copy of it. I think it’s really interesting that you mentioned that philanthropy is not necessarily about money. I always tell people that fundraising is not about money; it usually ends in money, but it’s about relationships and about creating relationships that are long-lasting. Those relationships should transcend the money in that just because in a bad year, and we’re having one by the way, where people are not going to make gifts to organizations they care about because they have to take care of their families and their friends. They will give more money to their church. They will make hard decisions about who they are giving to. If that person doesn’t make a gift to my organization but they have been supporting me for 20 years, do I abandon them and ignore them because they are not giving money through our fundraising? No. Because I have a relationship with them that transcends their financial giving, or possibly their volunteerism. It becomes a different thing. Philanthropy is definitely a mindset beyond money, and I love that you are bringing that to the surface so people can understand what it’s about. Hugh: I’m glad you asked me where to get the book. There is a website called PhilanthropyMisunderstood.org. You can find out how to get the book there. Bob: Thank you, Jeffrey. I want to know more about you as well. I am a member of AFP and of CFRE as well. There are a couple of people in the book who are CFRE, Scott Staub and Alfonse Brown. They have great stories in there not about fundraising. As you say, it was about relationship-building and the volunteerism they participated in as well. Hugh: Not everybody wrote a story in there. There is a story about a horse. Who wrote that? Bob: I wrote that one. It’s my best story. I wanted Philanthropy to be on my front cover, and Philanthropy happens to be my horse. This woman by the name of Tracy Carruth, who is a big philanthropist in Dallas, breeds horses. I happen to have an Arabian horse. She breeds Arabian horses. Napatoff, who is her most beautiful world champion horse, was retiring. Before he died, or left the breeding ring, she wanted to make sure that I got an offspring from Napatoff. She gave me the semen from Napatoff to go into Sherry Rochesta, who was my Arabian. Through that, we got a beautiful horse that I named Philanthropy. I wanted to start that as my first story. My editor didn’t like it, so we put it into the back. I am there with Tracy Carruth and our horses. That’s the story. Hugh: The standards for everything, the quality of the writing and the photographs, the design of the book, all of these sections in the book. You start out with Circle of Influence. Jeffrey headed us that way. It’s not about money; it’s about relationship. When you and I had lunch recently, we talked about relationship. You now have a relationship with all these people, and they wanted to be in your book. Why is relationship important to our work? Relationship in our teaching at SynerVision, it’s the underpinning of leadership and ministry, and it’s the support for communications. Funding and philanthropy happens as a result of relationship. Say a little more about relationship and how it’s important. Bob: Debbie Mrazek, who is one of the writers, wrote a part in the book called “Your Circle of Influence.” Who are all those people who will take care of you, who will take you to the airport and lend you sugar and tell you where to get the plumber? I had my students write down 100 people they know, wheedle it down to 25, and then 15 who will be in their circle of influence. I teach networking. It’s not what you know; it’s who you know. That’s the first thing and last thing I say in my classes. My students, I say, “How many people do you know?” They didn’t know 100 people. One of them knew seven. My family members. No, I don’t want to meet anybody. No, I don’t need people. I said to the class, “I’m going to take students to Nepal. It will cost $1,500. How many of you can raise the money to make it happen?” I went to this girl who said she knew seven people, and she didn’t want to know any more people. She said, “I don’t know anybody. I don’t want to know anybody. I guess I’m not going to Nepal.” I said, “I guess you’re not.” We took people to Nepal because my students most of the time realize that they have a great number of people around them who care about them, but there is a methodology of how to influence people and how to cultivate people and how to get them to be your friends, and more than friends, how to be a good friend, how to help people, and actually go around hunting for things to do for people. That’s what I want my students to become. I don’t think that we get anywhere in life without others. That’s one of the key principles that I teach in my communication classes. Hugh: Your class that I sat in on is really about communications. You’re really promoting good thinking skills. Communication to me is based on relationship. We can send a whole bunch of emails that nobody reads. It’s not about data. Bob: No. I send emails, and I pick up the phone. We used to send faxes. We used to go knock on their door. We used to drive by. I think that this time right now, we’re trying to figure out how to continue life in solitude since we are told to stay home, and stay home alone. I think we’re finding this television and this computer even more important than ever since this is how we’re able to stay in touch, through this cell phone we love so much and this computer. However, I can go next door and knock on the door and take them a cake and say, “I was thinking of you and realize you may not have any desserts at your house today.” Sometimes, I’ll have my lawnmower man come out and next door, they don’t mow their lawn very much. “Go mow their lawn. I’ll pay you.” The people come home and say, “I can’t believe you had somebody mow my lawn.” It was a philanthropic idea I had, was to love mankind and do something for the person next door. Hugh: Bob is an inspiration. My ideas are popping. You have 100 creative ideas every six seconds. You’re prolific. In these stories, 100+ stories from people who helped change the world. We are all doing our part. It’s not one person. But one person can start a movement. My friend in Lynchburg, he was the person who founded Stop Hunger Now, which is now Rise Against Hunger. Before we had a setback with coronavirus, they were on target to package 750 million meals. Their vision is to end hunger in our lifetime. It’s not just about packaging the meals; it’s about a lot more than that. One person thought of that and founded it, and it’s now a major movement that will exist long past his lifetime, which is what he wanted. It’s a legacy. What are the legacy possibilities for any of us who say, “I want to do something for humankind and have it keep going?” Are there possibilities for all of us? Bob: I always say, “What are you doing for the person who just passed away in your life? What will you do for your mother? What will you do for your father?” I got involved with building schools in Nepal with Don Wilkes. Let me tell you about Don Lueke since he is here. Don Lueke is from Kansas City; he and I met probably 30 years ago because he taught children at his school about giving. It’s the Junior Leadership. It’s similar to my PAVE program (Philanthropy and Volunteers Education). For the last 15-20 years, he and a man by the name of Steve O’Neill, who are businesspeople in Kansas City, take time out of their week every week to teach children at the Catholic school where their children go about giving back. This has become so sophisticated that this last year, I was a part of a seminar they had at the University of Missouri in Kansas City, where all of his students, maybe 30 or 40 of them, came and gave presentations on nonprofit organizations they had helped in the community. He does similar things to me: empower young people to get involved in the community. There is a double page about him and this group he is doing it with. Don Wilkes in Nepal for example. What can you do to honor somebody? He said, “If you can make a contribution of a couple thousand dollars, we will put someone’s name on a classroom in a school we are building in Nepal.” I called my brother and sister and said, “For $2,000, we can put our mother’s name on a classroom in Nepal.” My brother says, “I want to see a video of what it looks like.” I sent him the video, and he called me back immediately and said, “Let’s do it.” My sister said, “Sight unseen, let’s do it. We want to honor our mother.” For $2,000, our mother’s name is on a school’s room in Nepal. I know because I went to Nepal to see it. I had to go see my mother’s name. When I got out of the car, and the children were clapping for me because I was amongst them, because I gave a simple $2,000 and put my mother’s name on the deal, gave me such joy that we decided to do it again. I put my cousin’s name and my aunt’s name in another classroom on another school they are building in Nepal. That is a way you can provide not necessarily for yourself, but for somebody else that meant a lot in this society. Everybody we run around with meant a lot in this society. They did something in their lives that changed the world. Hugh: Absolutely. That’s an inspiration. Are you willing to entertain questions if I open everybody’s mic? Bob: Absolutely. Eric Groover: Bob, this is Eric Groover from the University of North Texas. How are you doing, Bob? Bob: Hi, Eric. It’s good to see you again. Eric: Hugh, I just want to say thank you for hosting Bob. Bob and I are new acquaintances through some of our students at the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science here at the University of North Texas in Denton. Just north of the DFW metroplex. Bob was actually scheduled to come speak to some students on our campus last week, and unfortunately we had to cancel that. Bob was gracious enough to bring up some of the books that we purchased for our students and faculty and staff. We spent a few minutes violating the university’s shelter-in-place order, visiting in my office for 20-30 minutes. I just wanted to say, Bob, that it’s been lovely watching you today and hearing your stories again. Just a huge thank-you to Hugh for hosting this event. He does you credit, and I’m glad for that. Thank you very much. Hugh: Thank you, Eric. Blessings. Nancy Hopkins: This is Nancy Carol Hopkins. Yes, I am Bob’s sister. I am watching from Tucson, Arizona. Obviously, Bob has been an influence in a lot of people’s lives, including mine and our younger brother. I wanted to make a comment on the volunteerism point. First of all, Bob gets asked frequently how come he stays so young and is so active at his age and has so much energy. If you look up and do some research on volunteerism, there is a lot of research that shows that volunteerism actually helps you medically, emotionally, physically, keeps you young literally. It does. There is medical research to prove that. If anybody wants to know how Bob stays so young and energetic, it has nothing to do with vitamins and pills he is taking. It has everything to do with the work that he does. Hugh: Very helpful, Nancy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing that. Nancy: You’re welcome. Hugh: You don’t have to take tonic if you hang around Bob Hopkins. Nancy: That’s right. You don’t. Hugh: That’s so rich. By the way, our governor slapped a stay-at-home order on us until June 10. The exception is volunteerism. If you volunteer for a charity, you can get out and do it. That was a good thing, I thought. Penny Rambacker: Hi, this is Penny Rambacker. How are you doing, Bob? Bob: They said Penny. I was hoping it was you. Penny: I’d like to make another comment about the idea of having purpose. I think Bob has a purpose, as many of us philanthropists have. I have been reading a book recently that said two of the things you can do to be the happiest in life are 1) to have a purpose and to feel needed, and that keeps you young and alive, and 2) is to be grateful. Those of us that practice gratitude and appreciate what we have are oftentimes people who are giving because they have seen other people with greater needs than their own. They become grateful for all of the things they have in their life. I had a huge gratitude lesson back when I first got into this. That was when I visited the garbage dump in Guatemala City. I saw children living there. It really touched my heart, and I had to do something about it. I found my purpose, and I felt grateful for the life I have. Two good things to think about when you are doing philanthropy. Yep, that’s me and my kids. Hugh: What page is that on, Bob? Bob: Pages 48-49. Hugh: Love it. Great stories. Penny, where are you? Penny: I am in Naples, Florida. We work in Guatemala. My charity has built 57 schools in the mountains of Guatemala. We also sell handicrafts. We just sent an e-newsletter telling people to visit our store online. It’s virus-free. You can go shopping for a greater good. If you want to go shopping, we have great things at Store.MiraclesInAction.org. Hugh: Good for you. I have been to Guatemala, and people are very poor. They have lots of wonderful natural resources. They do wonderful clothes with all these designs that are brilliant. What are you showing, Bob? Bob: This is Don Lueke’s page. He is on pages 82-83. Hugh: Don, do you want to comment? Don Lueke: This is a great opportunity to showcase your work, Bob, and the work of everybody in that book. I appreciate the efforts on your part. Just want to add. We talk about having a purpose. I think that is what makes us get up every day, or at least get up quicker. I don’t know if I have a lot more to add. I’m humbled by everybody’s story in the book, so I think I am just one of many. Hugh: Thank you for sharing. I am humbled being part of Bob’s network. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Bob, what is a parting thought you’d like to leave people with today? Bob: I am going to do another book called Philanthropy Understood. It’s going to be new people. Some of the old people we want to expand upon, too. I’d like to do something with TAMS. I think TAMS is a great program that Eric Groover has been a part of before. There are so many people that I have been thinking about. That’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s why so many people are here who are in the book because I sent them a memo telling them all that we are needing to stay together on a monthly basis. We did have a man pass away yesterday in the book, Charles Lowe. He has spent 45 years working with the disease called neurofibromatosis, and I worked for them for eight years. I was able to tell all of the people in the book about his passing. So many people responded who didn’t even know Charles, but did know his article in the book. I think the more we create this circle of influence around ourselves, the richer our lives are going to be. Also, the kinds of people we depend upon, I always try to find people who are smarter than you who have more things going on for them because they will lift me up instead of running around with people who will pull me down. My challenge to everyone is to continue these kinds of groups, and continue doing good together. That is the real fun about philanthropy and being volunteers. It’s a togetherness thing. I did go with Penny to Guatemala, and I loved the experience. She is in the book. I went with her 20 years ago. I included her in the book because that experience changed my life 20 years ago. It’s one of those many things that make up a person. It’s so much fun going back in my history, in my family. My sister is the greatest philanthropist of our family. She is doing more than me even. I think that’s the joy. I don’t even say it’s happy anymore; it’s a joy to walk out on my front porch and say, “God, take me. What is my next step? What do I have to do next?” You know what. Somebody picks me up and takes me. I think that’s the lesson I have learned more than anything: you have to be willing and tell people. Hugh: Bob Hopkins, you are a gift to humankind. Thank you so much for being our guest today. Bob: Thank you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Engaging Local Communities and Driving Civic Engagement  How nonprofits can engage local communities to help make a positive change and increase civic engagement Nonprofit leaders are able to go out and engage communities in ways that can help galvanize the public into improving their city or town. Nonprofits can dedicate their time to fighting for a cause that the local population is passionate about and ultimately bring about positive change in their communities. In the case of the Center for Election Science, the organization engaged with the community in Fargo and St. Louis and helped them improve their local democratic process through approval voting, which can make the local population feel more involved. Aaron Hamlin is the Executive Director and Co-Founder of the Center for Election Science, a non-profit organization that works to get the approved voting system implemented in cities across the United States. Since 2018, Aaron and his team have engaged voters in both Fargo, North Dakota, and St. Louis, Missouri to get approval voting passed and empower citizens with a stronger democracy. More about the Center for Election Science - https://electionscience.org For nonprofit leadership resources - https://www.aaronhamlin.com   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Burnout Is Not The Only Problem—Three Ways To Retain And Unleash Talent: Interview with Irent Shih Keeping volunteers engaged and committed takes time and effort, but it’s within our power as leaders to create a culture that makes people feel important, connected, and needed. Creating that culture is a worthwhile investment that will most certainly make an organization stronger over the long run. Irene Shih joined Minds Matter Bay Area (MMBay) as its first full-time CEO in March 2019, returning to her hometown roots in the Bay Area. For 18 years, Irene has served students in low-income communities — previously as a middle and high school classroom teacher in Arizona, a strategic advisor to superintendents in large urban school districts like Boston Public Schools, and a thought leader on state-level education policy in Massachusetts and Connecticut. Irene is a corps member alumna of Teach For America, holds an M.P.P. in Social & Urban Policy from Harvard Kennedy School, and completed a B.A. in English Literature and Women's Studies from U.C. Berkeley. As the CEO of Minds Matter Bay Area, Irene has led the organization and its 300-student and 300-volunteer-strong community through the adversity of a global pandemic, through changing cultural attitudes about remote work and work-life balance, toward unprecedented levels of communal, operational, and programmatic growth. Above all, Irene and her incredible leadership team are focused on the culture and values of MMBay, fostering a world-class educational environment that nurtures generational impact on its students by cultivating transformational relationships between students and an ecosystem of volunteer mentors. More about Irene Shih at www.mindsmatterbay.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Food for Families https://www.parkviewcommunitymission.org/food-for-families Interview Transcript   Hugh Ballou: Greetings to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have two guests today. They both work in the same charity. It’s called Food for Families. I was down there yesterday hearing some stories. There was a lunch gathering for a bunch of charities that work out of the same building. I have been talking to these guys for a while and said that we needed to tell their story because people have a lot of ideas, and putting some traction to ideas is pretty important. I learn from people who have lessons to teach, but I also learn from people who have life lessons to teach through stories. I am going to ask these two gentlemen to introduce themselves, a little bit about their background, and then we will circle around and talk about their foundation. Ray Booth, who are you? Ray Booth: I’m one of the rare breeds. I was born here, and I’ll die here. I’ll never live anywhere else. Hugh: We are in Lynchburg, Virginia by the way. Ray: It’s a great place. Come join us. I felt a calling early in my life to be an engineer, and I was a simple engineer graduate. After I got out of college, I felt called to ministry and considered that quite a bit. I think I’d do best in public service. I spent my whole working life in public service, first with the state government, then 25 years with the city as Director of Public Works. I have impacted this community. Everywhere I drive, I see my impacts and construction all the time. After I retired, I went to work with my construction company. I did more private/public partnerships here in Virginia in many of the cities and counties throughout Virginia. I retired from that, and now I am a consultant and real estate broker and am still trying to impact the community for the better. Hugh: Gordy Harper, tell us who you are. Gordy Harper: I am the director of Food for Families. Previously I was a real estate broker. Before that, a Harley Davidson dealer in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Hugh: We are across the state from the commonwealth. That is four or five hours away the other way. Gordy: Virginia Beach? Hugh: Yeah. Gordy: Four hours, at least. Hugh: It’s real flat over there. Gordy: Yes, it is. Hugh: I ran a half-marathon there. Part of the reason I chose it was because it was flat. The other part was because Yuengling served beer at the water stops. Food for Families, this is a nonprofit here. Let me set the context. We live in Lynchburg, Virginia. Lynchburg has one of the largest populations of those that live below the poverty line. I think 24% of the population. Food for Families is sort of geographically located where a lot of that population is. When was Food for Families started, and why was it started? Ray: Many years ago, Food for Families is located in a church that currently is in a poorest area in the city. Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, it was the heartbeat of the city. The first shopping center was there. This was the in place to be. It grew exponentially and was one of the wealthier cities and churches in the city. As time moved on and the new shopping mall was built in the suburbs and all the retail people in that part of the city left and went to the new mall and the development moved there, this area became more of a transient location. Over time, the poorest people in the city moved into this area. Lynchburg in the early 1900’s was one of the six wealthiest cities in the nation. A lot of wealth here, and they built huge homes. We have a lot of beautiful inner city homes. They were turned into apartments in the ’50s and ‘60s. Once the people started to come and appreciate the architecture, they bought all of those homes and moved the poor people out. The poor people gathered around the Parkview Community Church. That is now the poorest area west of Richmond in the whole state of Virginia. The church was flourishing. As retail moved out, it started going downhill. They started having a Wednesday night meal every week. Back in 1996, a street person came in, and they fed him. The next week, he brought two of his friends. And more and more of the street people came in. More of the congregation left. They continued to feed the poor, and that number grew and grew. Still to this day, 21 years later, there is still a Wednesday night meal. We feed 125-150 people on Wednesday nights. The church started food boxes in 2007 because they saw all of these poor people on Wednesday night needing food. In 2008, the church was closed, and the food pantry survived another year or two until the guy who ran it died. It was closed for three or four months. Through a grant, we reopened the food pantry in 2011 as a client choice facility, the first one west of Richmond and one of the few- Hugh: Tell us what client choice means. Ray: Client choice means the neighbors come in and get a grocery cart and actually go back through the pantry and pick up the items their family will eat. Pick a produce, meat, dairy, bread, so forth. They only shop like you would shop in a grocery store or anywhere else and pick up the items their family will eat. That was very successful and still is to this day. There has been a number of changes over the years. In 2012, a gentleman who has never been married, very poor, never owned a car died and left $225,000 for the benefit of youth in Lynchburg and to be used by the district superintendent. They developed a partnership with UMFS, which houses foster care and adopting. They agreed to put a regional office there. They used a third of the money to run the space. After they came, the district office moved there. We divided expenses three ways and utilities, and the Lord has continued to bless over the years. It has really taken off, and now we have 13 different nonprofits in the building. Many of those are very complementary to Food for Families and the neighbors, and today we serve 25% of the poor people in Lynchburg with food. That’s 3,000 individuals. We have had as much as 80,000 pounds of food going through the facility. Hugh: 80,000 pounds. I have been by there on a Saturday. There is people waiting. Ray, when did you join this organization? Ray: I joined in 2010. Hugh: 2010. This is 2017 when we are making this recording. People may be listening to this in some other year or universe. Gordy, when did you join this organization? Gordy: 2016. Hugh: 2016. Year and a half. Ray is the chairman of the board, and you are? Gordy: The director. Hugh: What other data would you like to share? What I’m hearing is there are people who were doing something that was meaningful and they stayed with it. There is people listening to this who’ve had an idea and tried it, but haven’t really stayed with it long-term. I’ve also heard because of the value of the people staying with it, you attracted some funding and some other synergies with some other organizations. What other things do you want to share about what you know from the history and what the history is from 2016 going forward? Gordy: As I came in, what we tried to focus on was changing the culture. I would sit in meetings in the city and hear people talking about how they didn’t feel respected when they went into those places. A lady said a culture of respect, and that locked into my brain. I went back and we tried to change the culture and help people see our neighbors, our clients who we call neighbors, not clients. Our focus was on changing the culture. A lot of that is in developing relationships because what I was hearing was people needed to help them come from where they are. I just knew from my own life that if you wanted to help me come from where I was, you were going to have to have a relationship with me, to be able to sit with me and share with me and listen and take it to heart. It mattered the things you said to me. The first year I was there, I was trying to build relationships and trying to bring down the walls that people build up around themselves because of where they are. We tried to show the love of Christ to people. Hugh: Russell, they said a couple magic words. Relationships. They said culture. Do you have some comments or questions for these gentlemen? Russell: Culture is more than just a cereal. It’s supposed to be good. It’s wonderful because what you are talking about, and I have dealt with it a lot, is basic human dignity. Sometimes it’s hard for people to reach out for help because they are in a circumstance through no fault of their own, and it’s important to treat people with that basic dignity. I commend you for making the effort to do that and connecting with these people that you’re serving. I was also excited to hear that you are co-located with a number of different agencies. If you could, talk about some of the things you have been able to do with some of those other folks that are partnered with you to provide a more holistic service to those people you are serving. Gordy: We have a free clinic. We have tried to build relationships actually with all the different partners in the building. But we have a welcome center. Our welcome center is like a resource center, and I have set them up a satellite in our office. We are in the lower level of the building. Everything else is in the upper levels of our building. We have tried to establish ways to draw them down to where the neighbors are. But we have set a lady up in our office that can actually one-on-one with the neighbors. They are actually in the room waiting for hours at times. Some days I am there at 7:30, and there is a 2:00 distribution with people waiting already. We try to capture those morning hours where people are waiting to be able to shop and draw people in that can lead them to resources. The free clinic, we have an establishing relationship. There is a nurse practitioner in there that is going to come down and meet with the neighbors, announce what services are available, and what she has actually talked about is coming to the Wednesday night community meals and establishing relationships by sitting with the neighbors and letting them know what’s available. We are trying to get flu shots. There are little things we talk about just from what we hear with the neighbors and try to see what needs they have. We have a relationship with the local bank and a lady that is vice president there who is coming in and teaching personal finance classes, basic computing classes, reading, math skills, different things that will help people be in a better position to get employment. Ray: There is a nutritionist that has been there several years that is teaching cooking classes. While the neighbors are waiting, she is up there showing them how to cook. We also have a counseling service there. This facility started even before everybody else moved in with a facility bin there. We met there for over seven years. As a result of that synergy that came around that facility and those people being there, you have 50-60 people there every day at lunchtime for an AA meeting. As some of those people were able to overcome their addiction, one of them started a telecommunications company that is in the building that provides low-cost Internet and phone within a one-and-a-half-mile radius of the building. Two others actually formed a counseling service using the peer group model that is now extremely successful. They have contracts with all of the local school systems and hospitals, so if a student gets caught with drugs and alcohol, instead of being suspended, they are sent there. They have nine counselors now. They have a lot of people whose lives have turned around as a result of that. The UMFS has foster care and adopting services for the entire region. They have contracts with all the schools as well. We have three churches that meet there. One on Saturday that is in a growth of the AA group. A lot of the people at the church service are across the spectrum. We have doctors, lawyers, all types of people there that through prescription drugs and other things, you read about it so much today, that were cured or came off the addiction that didn’t feel comfortable in their own churches or places. They come there with brothers and sisters who shared the same war and are helping each other. After the worship service, they have a meal together. That’s every Saturday night. We have a Sunday morning church, and then we have a Sunday afternoon church. They are now getting more involved in the mission. Most recently, we have had one of the larger churches move their church office into the building because they want to be close to the neighbors and be more involved in administering to the poor. We have a number of different things there. We are continuing to try to expand more services as we get there. It’s continuing to grow. Hugh: Russell is one of the first people. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. I have trademarked that name. We like the word charity because nonprofit is a stupid word. You have to make some profit if you are going to do any good. We like the word charity a little better. It is a tax-exempt social benefit organization or social capital. Lots of ways to describe it. People think of nonprofit as a philosophy, not a tax classification. I don’t hear any of that thinking from what I hear today. Russell and I have reinvented the consultant model. I went from being a consultant to an insultant to a resultant. Now we partner with them to help them find the way, so we are WayFinders. We created a whole different paradigm because 98% of the consultants out there give the rest of us a bad name. Maybe they give answers, maybe they don’t. It’s the stock answer. Our calling is to give people information, free or at a price they can afford, so they can improve their culture, their service, and therefore improve their funding. I wanted to talk about two other pieces here. We teach leaders that you don’t push, you influence. I am hearing some of that in your dialogue. You have been steady. You have worked out these collaborations with these other organizations with some synergistic work. I am gathering you were the first one on board and the others have come on board since then. Because of the impact of your work, I want to shift, and a lot of charities do that, but I know since I’ve heard your stories. There is measurable, profound impact from the work you do. That is part of the position of influence. Your operational guidelines, your high standards of integrity, the value you give people: those are all really strong principles. Those are part of who you attract, both in the collaborations and in the funding side. If that influence piece makes some sense, you talked about improving the culture, redefining the culture. I’m not sure what word you used, but it was working on the culture. I watched you yesterday where you had most of those organizations represented at lunch. It was a lunch to share stories and be together. You were a servant leader there. You were handing out plates and checking on people. I don’t know if you were official, but you were an unofficial hospitality person yesterday. It gave me some insights into your leadership, sir. Culture is so important; that’s part of the work you do. Leadership is a culture. It’s not just a person, it’s the culture. What’s been your journey of helping them—I like the word transform rather than change—transform their whole idea of culture? Give us a snapshot of what that journey has been like. Gordy: It goes back probably. For this journey, when I was seeing it, people don’t really mean some of the things you see sometimes. It’s just more the nature of people as a whole unfortunately. I was watching. I would hear certain things and watch certain responses. It just wasn’t the outcome I was hoping for. I want more of a warm and comfortable- The way I have tried to sell it is the people we are serving don’t really get experiences. If I want to take my kids to Disneyworld or my grandkids, we are going to go. They don’t really get to do the same thing. We have tried to help people see that we want to create an experience where you look forward to coming back. I know it’s just shopping to some people, but to our neighbors, when you see that they will come, some come at six in the morning. I have had people tell me- We start at eight, so I come around 7:30. There can be 10-15 people waiting. It just makes me understand the value. I know it’s free groceries. But they get to come once a month. I would like over that month’s gap for them to really look forward to it. We try to take everything, implement everything we can to make it an ice experience. We want to do it like the nice stores do, like Walmart. You want it to be. We need vests to say, “How can I help?” We want it to be clean, well-stocked, and with customer experience. We have to put it in the mindset that an average person would be thinking. When you walk through the grocery stores, what do you see? What is happening around you? Everything is neat and in order. The only difference is that we bring our pallets right through the front door. We set them right in the middle of our produce room and start picking through it to be able to distribute the food. It’s harder to keep it clean. We don’t have people come in the middle of the night to stock us to be ready for opening tomorrow. We have certain challenges that Walmart has mastered because of finances and the help they were able to bring in. if you think of it as creating a wonderful experience and not just feeding people- Hugh: I love it. It’s the visual of people waiting in line for the new iPhone. They are excited. Gordy: It’s hard because my family does what everyone else does when they want to do it. We have been very blessed. But I realize these folks don’t. Hugh: It’s hard to realize that. Russell, we were born into white privilege. It’s not a disease, but there is a cure for it. I was in a room yesterday, and I said to Leigh Anne, “It’s nice to be in a room where everybody doesn’t look like me.” Because if everybody were to look like me, that would be scary. We had a cross-section of Lynchburg in that room. Age demographic, educational background, race, some of us better-looking than others, but not me. The culture thing is something that we work with charities and churches on because we have inherited a culture. We don’t realize that people aren’t responding to us because we are doing the things the same way. I started a workshop Saturday with church leaders, and I said, “Who knows the seven last words of a church?” Nobody knew. “We have never done it that way before.” I said a lot of us come to meetings with that written on our foreheads. How about stripping it off? Let’s start with an open brain. You came in 18 months ago. Ray, what sort of transformation has happened during his tenure so far? Ray: Obviously his approach is very positive and very much like what we were all looking for. Our previous people took it more- In fact, he was a retired military person and was more for giving orders and this is the way we do it type of approach. That doesn’t create the same level of respect. You have to have a heart that you want to share and relate to these people rather than treat them as something to go through the door. Gordy has brought the heart into it. As a result of his faith, he has ben able to share that heart and love with the people. That is something I strongly believe in and something I try to do. I grew up very poor, not white privilege. I relate to these people really well. It’s all by the grace of God. It could be any of us. It’s been wonderful to see Gordy there and the way he has transformed the people there. The other thing that has been such a huge benefit is the tremendous amount of volunteers we have. We have only a couple part-time people. Gordy is part-time. It takes at least 30 volunteers to run a distribution day. We have brought hundreds of volunteers in and hundreds of volunteer hours. If it wasn’t for the volunteers, we couldn’t survive. It’s important for the volunteers to have a good experience as it is for the neighbors. If they don’t appreciate and we don’t appreciate them and what they do, they wouldn’t be coming back. We have a tremendous amount of volunteers repeat on a continuous basis. Also, Wednesday nights, we have numerous groups that cook the food, serve the food, provide music devotions, and relate to the people. That is probably 30 different groups over the years. That creates an experience of love and a relationship that carries forward into the volunteers on Thursday and Saturday and Wednesdays. Hugh: This is what Gordy’s brought to the table. We like to teach that culture is a reflection of the leader. We want to criticize other people and take the blame off of ourselves. I want to ask some stories. Russell, what questions are you hearing, and do you want to throw some questions on the table? Russell: What we are talking about is critically important. There is reasons why people want to support you. A nonprofit that is effective creates win-win-win scenarios: wins for the people who are working, wins for the people they serve, and wins for their supporters, whether they are giving time, talent, or treasure. Having the connection with people. When you go into a community, particularly if you look different, there is a bit of a level of suspicion you have to overcome. That has been my experience. People get to know you and see you as genuine. You go in and ask a lot of questions; you don’t walk in with a lot of answers. People respond to that, and it’s a constant dialogue. How can we make this better? How can we serve you best? What is something that we can do that we’re not doing? These are all things to be critical. It’s having these conversations. You have hundreds of volunteers. I am seeing people like Travis Smith, who has spread impact locally to 11 cities now. He has been successful at leveraging large numbers of volunteers. The question that I have is: What are you learning as you ask the people who volunteer for you why they keep coming back, why they enjoy serving, what makes them want to work with you? Gordy: That’s a tough one to figure out. We do get responses and things from people. I haven’t really done a lot of research on it as much as it seems almost a standard amongst, especially the students. I see the students come in, and they start, they don’t know where to plug in. Some of them require hours and things like that, community service hours. You can start to see develop within them a heart for service. I think most of the young people nowadays really want to do something. They have something inside them that is stirring to give back. It’s interesting because I know one of the local colleges, they get 20 hours they are required to serve in their community. Over and over, I get comments of, “I had to do it up until then. I want to do it now.” It’s just something stirs within them to make them come back and want to do it. I think any of us, they will actually step outside of our comfort zone and go into these places and start to invest your time and energy, it’s in us. Ray: All of us want to do things and please people. When we serve people, these people appreciate it and show their appreciation verbally, nonverbally, and so forth. Everything you do is appreciated. That warms people’s hearts, and they want to continue to be able to help the people. It’s all about being able to help and se that immediate impact and the smile on the face. That is what brings them back, and that is why if they get past that first hurdle and get comfortable, at least talk to people, then they can develop a dialogue. Particularly for young people, they don’t have the boxes that older people do as it relates to race, culture, etc. They more quickly join in if you will than the older people. They have a harder struggle sometimes getting past that barrier. One of the big things that has been in Lynchburg the last five, six, seven years is Bridges over Poverty. We have gone through lots of training on that. Just a local pastor recently shared with me that he had the white privilege, if you will, to serve in larger churches. He really didn’t know how to talk to the poor. He went into one of these Bridges programs and came back and tried some different things. All of a sudden, they responded, and all of a sudden, he comes back every week because he’s retired and he sees how he can bring a smile to these people’s faces and how they can all of a sudden smile rather than sit there frowning. Hugh: We bought this house recently. I said to the realtor and the mover, “You do this all the time, but we felt like we were your only clients. We move once in a great while. You move somebody every day. You sell a house every day.” These people, it’s a unique experience for them. You’re doing it all the time. What I am hearing about the culture it is a profound experience for everybody. You have created a win-win for everybody. Parts of white privilege don’t have to do with money. Just because we’re old white guys, there is a lot of dimensions to that. What I am hearing is you have evened the playing field in that people are people. I’d like to hear a couple of stories that you can share. We have some time here. Is there a story of impact? Either one of you can start. Is there a story that you’d like to share that warms your heart or really made a difference in somebody’s life? Gordy: Recently, we had two ladies come in. it was an off-time in our schedule. They were homeless. The way it hit me was it was impactful because of the pieces that came together. We are sitting in the office. We were able to draw the lady from the welcome center. She was in there. We were able to see them get their housing that evening. By establishing the housing, we were able to establish their food. She was able to get them bus passes. All the pieces, we stood in the office, and we talked it all through. All the pieces in a matter of 15 minutes came together. We stood there, we all held hands together, prayed together. We said, “Wouldn’t it be something if six months from now, we talked about, Remember when we all gathered here and figured out all the pieces?” In two weeks, they came in and both had jobs. It was powerful for them to come in and share and for us to remember all the different resources aligned at that moment. It’s a powerful image of us remembering to draw the resources. You have to keep a pool of everybody together. They wanted me to understand all of our resources there and make sure what’s happening and get everybody everything they need and understand that the other partners in our mission are in as well. We have come to find out they are in as well, and they were actually doing some things that I hadn’t even realized. The counseling, I sat with one of them and said, “I really want to figure out what we can do together.” They’re like, “Did you not realize Steve has been sending people up for a long time?” I’m like, “I did not realize.” Steve is the face you see first when you come into the office. Steve has been directing people to the resources they needed. Ray: There are so many stories that happen all the time. We had a guy come in the office, and we had been getting money from somebody that gave us $100 a month for a long time. We didn’t know who it really was. One day, this guy comes through the door and says he didn’t have a car or anything. He rode the bus. “One month, I didn’t have the money to give you, and I got on the bus. Somebody got on with a bag of groceries, and I said they need it more than me.” He came back and gave us that $100. That guy has since come back numerous times, and he had Gordy go with him to the bank. The bank is sending us a check for $100 every month from his account. He had money when he first came to Lynchburg, and he has donated most of it. He has enough just to live. He really has the heart to help people. You look at him, and he has a long beard, long hair, but he has a heart. You never underestimate people. Don’t judge a book by its cover. Hugh: That’s a remarkable story. What do you think, Russ? Russell: I think that’s great. That’s probably typical of the work you’re doing there. It’s all about people. As you bring people in, they come through the front door, and it’s almost like having them slide into your funnel as it were. When I worked for a tribe, people walked through the door. My programs were about jobs and business, but I was familiar with all of the other programs around me within the tribe. When somebody walked into my office, they could start anywhere in that office, and they would be walked around from one end to the other, or across the street to the health clinic. When they walked in, they left with what they needed. Nobody took time to say, “This is not quite my job.” They would take the time. As a program director, we take time to walk people from one office to the other and make sure they are getting what they need before we hand them off. It’s a team effort. I looked at it as I worked for the community. I had a boss, I had the tribal chief and the tribal council, but I worked for the community. I am on display with everybody I serve. It is important for them to have satisfaction. It is important for people writing the checks to be satisfied. It is important to have good relations with the community. All of that is important. Everybody has to feel like they are winning here. I commend you for setting up that type of environment. Asking people what they like and why they serve is critical because once you find out what it is they like, you can do more of it. Even if they have to do a certain number of hours, they can do those hours with any nonprofit in Lynchburg, but they choose you. That is because of what you have been doing. That is your work on the culture. Find out a little bit more. I am in the frame of mind you can never ask too many questions to find out what makes people tick and to be there and to be that solution and have that heart of service that people need. As we are coming up on this holiday, this is a great time to remember a lot of these things we are grateful for. Are you going to see some people over the next few days? I know the holiday is coming. There are a lot of meals to be served. What is on the agenda for the rest of this week? And Giving Tuesday is coming up. What is on the agenda? What do folks need to know so they can help support the work you’re doing because you serve a lot of people in need there? Hugh: We are recording this prior to Thanksgiving in 2017, to put in context for people listening to the podcast. We are approaching a holiday where a lot of us eat a lot of food and celebrate with family that other people don’t have that option. What I have learned is when you are down and out, the society doesn’t help you most of the time. You guys are giving a hand up. This is so encouraging. To relay Russ’s question, what particular reflection do you have this season of the year? How do you interact with people that is different? Or is it different? Gordy: I don’t see it as different. Hugh: A lot of places shut down. It’s a trick question. Gordy: I don’t understand the question, haha. Hugh: A lot of places shut down, Russell. Oh, it’s a holiday. We are going to take time off. A lot of them close today and open again on Monday. Gordy: We have our Wednesday night dinner. It will be a sit-down, serve you at the table. Hugh: Who comes to that? Gordy: Everybody in the community is allowed to come. It’s an open-door policy. We don’t even know who will be there yet. But the expectation—I reached out today to get more tables and chairs because we are expecting a huge crowd. Hugh: Just to go back to the lineage and history of this that we heard, this was a very active large Methodist church. It dwindled down in membership, and it was no longer viable. The building is owned by the Methodist church. It reverted back to the district office who had to maintain it. Through the wisdom of the district superintendent, they started using it. It had a rebirth. Not just one church worships there, but there are at least three. Plus you have 13 different organizations. The ministry has sorted- It’s not all under the umbrella of the church. They are still ministries, I think. Go ahead. Ray: It’s a building that originally started in 1857 on that site. It has grown until now, where it is 26,000 square feet. Then it died, and it’s now been reborn and rebirthed in even a greater sense. It’s how the people use the facilities. What makes this site so unique is that it is in the very heart of the very poorest area. Two blocks away is the Salvation Army and the Center of Hope. Across the street is the public health department. Another block is a recreation center. There are ten Methodist churches within a two-mile radius of this. There is probably another 30 or 40 storefront churches and others around this. We have now partnered with another church, where a bus picks up people in the neighborhood. We give out so much food. We average 30 pounds of food for an individual in the family. A family of four will get over 100 pounds of food. The biggest problem they have is getting it home. They can’t get on the bus with that much. They all have to get taxis and share. It is a tremendous undertaking to take 80,000 pounds and distribute it in over two days. This past week leading up to Thanksgiving, we had over 300 families that went through there. Hugh: Say those numbers again. You just slid those in here. How many pounds of food? Ray: 80,000 pounds a month. Hugh: 80,000 pounds of food per month. That other figure. Ray: This past week, we had the most families we’ve ever had of 320-something families on Thursday and Saturday, just those two days. Hugh: Over 300 families. That’s a lot of people. Ray: Over 2,000 individuals. Hugh: Wow. On Saturday? Ray: Thursday and Saturday. Hugh: Thursday and Saturday. That is just one week in this month. The impact of your work is pretty huge. We find that helping charities define their impact in quantifiable terms helps them attract regular, recurring funding. Talk a bit about how you sustain this, how you continue to make sure there is operational money, food in place, and you pay the light bill. How do you attract the funding? How many sources does it come from? I’m sure there is some in-kind, but there is some cash in there, too, isn’t there? Ray: We have been tracking the cash. It comes from different areas. We get from churches, we get from organizations, we get a lot from grants. A lot of individual donations. If you donate $10, it will feed a family of four for one month. That is based on the supply of 100 pounds of food. We are able to present it that way. A lot of people respond to that because they want to help. It’s individuals, churches, organizations, and grants. Our biggest supporter by far is Walmart. Over that 80,000 pounds of food, a third of that comes from Walmart. We pick up from three Walmarts, a Little Caesars, a Panera Bread every week. Walmart supplies are tremendous. 30-40,000 pounds a month comes from Walmart. They have given us grants. We have had a $55,000 grant to widen the entrance so we can get food in easier. Last week, we got another $55,000 grant from Walmart to buy a refrigerated truck so we can keep the produce fresh longer and pick it up and keep it fresh. They give community service grants as well. The people here are just so supportive of what we do. This community is very supportive. Hugh: We qualify for that by showing the impact of your work. I want to point out to any businesspeople listening to this. You heard three brands mentioned here: Walmart, Panera, and Little Caesars. Those companies support you. You don’t have to toot their horn about their brand. It’s good for business to do this. This is the Walmart Foundation. It is philanthropic, but you have also had support from local stores, which is another source of funding. What I heard you say is you have individual and company donations. You have in-kind donations, which is the food. You do get grants, so that’s three. We teach charities there is eight streams of revenue. We have money, which we call partner money. It comes from a rotary foundation or a church. They have designated funds for particular projects. It’s not really a grant or a donation, so it’s partnering. They have the funds and aggregate and take a bunch of churches or a groups like a rotary foundation. Each rotary has their own foundation. They can purpose special gifts. For charities to think about partnering with churches, synagogues, and other community organizations that want to give you a little bit of money, and you multiply it by 10 or 20 organizations, then you have some sustainable revenue to help you sustain your work. Are there other sources of revenue? I heard those. Ray: I think you hit most of them there. You just never know when the Lord is going to bring something. Recently, last year, we got a big donation from an individual we have never heard of before, from another city. They just happened to have a family member that heard about it, and the foundation wrote us a check. We had to find out where it came from. You just never know how the Lord is going to provide and how the money is going to come. You never know. Hugh: Russell, we are on the final wrap here. We are going to run over time. Any closing comments from you or a parting question? Russell: I’d like to thank you for the fine work that you’re doing down there. You have some marvelous opportunities to leverage all the work you’re doing. I could say the same thing about the business. Find out what it is they like that makes them support you so you can just keep doing more of that and bring in more people through the door and keep talking to people. Those relationships are important. Keep working on culture because that is where it starts. This is what draws all of these gifts. When you have the right culture, you create the type of energy field, and the synergy to bring all this stuff about. Keep up what you’re doing. Blessings to you. Enjoy the holiday. I don’t know if you planned anything special for Giving Tuesday, but that is an opportunity to reach out and talk to people. Go on your Facebook feed and talk about the work you’re doing. Remind people that Giving Tuesday is an opportunity to support you. Hugh: I want you to think about a parting comment. There are people out there struggling who have not been able to get traction. What encouragement would you give them if they are thinking about starting or they have tried to start and haven’t got traction? As we are signing off here, which one of you wants to give a challenge, tip, or thought for somebody who wants to up their game? Ray: Never give up. Just keep trying. Gordy: Love the people you are doing it for. Hugh: Love the people you are doing it for. And I heard with. You do all of that. I watched you in action. You can’t hide. Thank you so much for sharing. Russell, we are three guys having coffee in my kitchen. This is a kickback. Russell: I am having coffee with you guys. It’s great. I noticed that I am drinking more coffee than you guys. Hugh: We don’t subscribe to whether it’s half full or half empty because we think it’s all refillable. Russell: It is. Hugh: Blessings to everyone. Thank you for great stories on this podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How Much More Money Does Your Nonprofit Need to Bring In? With Debbie Mrazek Debbie Mrazek coaches and consults with Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, entrepreneurs, non-profit organizations, business startups, and family businesses, helping her clients to identify their toughest business challenges and guiding them through the process of developing and devising a clear, concise plan; a road map to achieving their vision and exponentially growing by working “smarter not harder”. She is passionate about bringing the “fun” back to selling -raising money. Additionally, Debbie is the author of “The Field Guide to Sales” and is a prolific writer and speaker sharing her wealth of experiences and sales growth expertise to numerous organizations and publications. Also, recently recognized by DCEO Magazine as one of the 2021 Dallas 500 - the most powerful business leaders in Dallas-Fort Worth. Also, honored by Dallas Business Journal -Women In Business Award Winner and Tech Titan Community Hero. Currently, Debbie is serving as • Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses Faculty - Sales/Marketing • TeXchange Board of Directors. For more information: www.The-Sales-Company.com linkedin.com/in/debbiemrazek Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why Your Authenticity Is Needed In The World Now More Than Ever Interview with Sandra Dee Robinson   True authenticity as a leader takes courage, but only initially.  Once achieved the results show an exponential increase. Decision-making is more clear. For those who feel a higher calling ( not only clergy) remembering the authentic self provides an ROI that sometimes cannot even be measured.  Peace of mind and a stronger sense of self in your Design can magnetize others to you and your purpose. There are three things that create the environment for this to happen: Your CORE, your actions, and your language. Let's take a look at what the alignment of these can create in the world that you experience. Sandra Dee Robinson’s mission is to help move people from where they are, to where they are Designed to be. She is a known television actress (former soap opera star), author, international speaker, TV and radio host, and a trusted advisor to gifted leaders and influencers who feel pulled to create an impact in the world. Sandra Dee founded Charisma on Camera Performance Coaching in 2010 and Horsepowered Consulting featuring her exclusive equine-assisted coaching retreats, in 2018.    She is master certified in NLP, Hypnosis, Speaker Stage mastery as well as trained in Natural Lifemanship, EAGALA, and is a Certified Success and Soul Business Coach.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Greg Stewart, a multifaceted leader with a rich background in ministry, counseling, and organizational leadership. We delved into the concept of I3Q, which stands for Information, Interpretation, and Intensity, and how it relates to our inner strength and the management of negative emotions. Dr. Stewart shared his journey from being called into ministry to becoming a licensed counselor and executive coach. He emphasized the importance of understanding our negative emotions and how they can serve as a source of energy for personal growth and transformation. His new book, "Unlocking the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions," is a culmination of his experiences and insights over the past decade, particularly following a personal crisis that led him to explore his own emotional landscape. We discussed the critical need for leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector, to model emotional intelligence and transformational leadership. Dr. Stewart highlighted the balance between grace and truth in leadership, stressing that effective communication requires both empathy and accountability. He provided practical advice on how to navigate difficult conversations and the importance of self-reflection in understanding our emotional responses. As we wrapped up, Dr. Stewart encouraged listeners to ask themselves, "What is being exposed in me?" when faced with negative emotions. This introspective approach can lead to healing, emotional resilience, and a deeper understanding of oneself. Overall, this episode is a valuable resource for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their emotional intelligence and leadership skills. Dr. Stewart's insights remind us that our emotional challenges can be transformed into opportunities for growth and connection. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  Mark S A Smith is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.   A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing. For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability.   What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization   How to Get the Most Out of 2018 Tapping into the top five trends to grow your nonprofit: Omnichannel – allow members to consume you anywhere and every way How the growing economy creates monetary opportunities The impact of higher unemployment on your volunteer force and how to pivot to get all you need New leadership demands: what’s changing and how to stay out front Turning unrest into peace: how to divorce your organization from the media’s promotion of outrage Interview Transcript   Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis on this version of The Nonprofit Exchange. A dear friend who I see too rarely, we have been talking virtually but now we are together. I said, Why don’t we talk about some things that are on your radar?” Mark S. A. Smith, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Mark S. A. Smith: Such a delight to be here. Thank you, Hugh. Hello, Russell. Hello, friends on Facebook. Welcome. We have a lot of interesting things to talk about because 2018 is going to be an astounding year. You might be listening to this in 2020 or 2024. But you know something? What we are talking about today will probably still be issues even in the next five to ten years. Or opportunities, as the case may be. Hugh: We record messages that are timeless. But you’re right. We are turning the page into 2018 as we are recording this. If you are a regular listener, you know you can go to thenonprofitexchange.org and see the video versions of these. But you can go to iTunes and download the audio there. Mark, you are in a series of really powerful interviews we have done over three years. We are starting our fourth year of these great interviews. What we endeavor to do more often than not is find people that have business expertise. Let’s install that particular business expertise into the charity. It might be a church, a synagogue, a membership organization, or a community foundation, but it’s some sort of philanthropic work that we’re doing. Before we get into the subject matter, which I’m going to hold off in giving people a title, tell people a little bit about Mark Smith and why you are able to talk about this topic today. Mark: I help people sell complex, expensive, high-consideration things as fast as humanly possible. I am an electrical engineer; therefore, I am a systems thinker. I have recovered. I don’t sell or do engineering very much, but I do help people sell complex things. That is where you have multiple people involved in making the decision. Each person has a different view of what creates value and what we need to do. Sounds an awful lot like this nation, doesn’t it? Hugh: Yeah. Mark: How do you round up consensus? How do you have people go the same way? Just like when you’re working with nonprofits, herding cats is what we have to do. It’s the same thing when you have to sell expensive technology. What I’m doing here is applying all the things I have learned about selling very expensive things to the world of nonprofits. It’s absolutely identical. I, too, do work with a nonprofit. I am on a board here in Las Vegas where I live. I’ve been involved in nonprofits throughout my life. I understand, and I am delighted to share with you my business acumen. What I like to tell people is a nonprofit is not a business plan; it’s a tax status. Hugh: That’s not a philosophy, no. You’re very active on social media, especially Twitter. You put out little short memes with a few words on it. I gotta tell you, they are very thought-provoking. They help me focus on what’s important. Mark: I am honored that that happens. Thank you. Hugh: There has been this coincidence of you tweeting on the things we are actually talking about. Sometimes simultaneously. I find that to be fascinating. Mark: The issues are the same. Whether it’s nonprofits or the for-profit world, the issues we face are frankly identical. Hugh: I laugh when business leaders say, “That might work in the church.” Mark: Or the other side is that the religious leaders say, “That might work in business, but it won’t work in the church.” Hugh: If it’s true anywhere, it’s true everywhere. Mark: We’re humans working with humans. Hugh: I think we’ve stalled long enough in telling people what the topic is. What is the topic? Russell wants to know. Mark: All right, Russell. You’re ready? Today’s topic is how to get the most out of this year, which happens to be 2018. We are going to talk about five trends that are going on that you need to know about as the leader of your nonprofit to stay ahead of the game, to grow, and to prosper heading forward. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, and some of the things we are going to talk about are psychology. Hugh: Say that last sentence again. That caught me off guard. Mark: Don’t you know I do that to you? And you do the same to me when you’re speaking. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, understanding the technology that nonprofits have to be embracing and keeping track of and staying up with. Some of it happens to be psychology, what is happening in the general zeitgeist of the world and how they impact nonprofits. Whether you think they do or not, they do. Your constituents, your members, your flock all are impacted by what they see in the news and what they experience with retail and what happens in the business world. They carry those attitudes and insights into your organization, whether you want them to or not. We have to manage that. We have to deal with it. We have to capitalize whenever possible or perhaps even neutralize it in some cases. That is what I mean by psychology. Hugh: Absolutely. I think we’re guilty in any discipline. I know in the church, I have had people say to somebody, “You’re so heavily minded you’re no earthly good.” We all live in the reality of today. I can say that I served the church for 40 years and probably got to that space myself. I put in very carefully numbered bullet points. I noticed that I numbered them wrong. Our first one is, Omnichannel. Speak about that. Tell us what that means. Mark: Listener, have you ever had the situation where you were multi-tasking, perhaps watching television and checking your telephone for messages or tweets, or maybe even reading the news story you are watching on TV simultaneously to see what if you were seeing on TV made sense to other news channels? That’s omnichannels, my friend. The reality is we are multi-screening. You are getting information from multiple locations at all times in all ways. What this means to nonprofits is you have to be able to bring your message, bring your service to your constituents in every way that they consume information. Just by a show of hands, who here has for your organization—I see ten fingers there, well, eight fingers and two thumbs. Sometimes I am just all thumbs. Do you have an app? Do you have the opportunity of having your constituents consume your services, your podcasts, your sermons via a dedicated app that would alert them when something new becomes available? Are you using the technology to your benefit? Now if you’re doing that, fantastic. Just stay with it. You have to understand we live in an omnichannel world. We are consuming many things in many different ways. Mobile apps, partner locations, maybe figuring out other locations for people to access your services. Where do your constituents go that you can have a kiosk or a corner or something like that where people can plug in, enjoy, take advantage of, be reminded of, contribute to, consume whatever it is you are bringing to the marketplace? Since I don’t know what your nonprofit is, we are spraying and hoping you will catch a couple of ideas here. The concept here is you need to be everywhere that your people are every time you possibly can be. The reality is if you are a church, people are carrying around a sermon in a box in their mobile device. Chunk things up into five-minute pieces to give them a chance to remind, refresh, and renew. If you are supplying educational elements, keep pushing out opportunities for people to learn and to refresh. If you’re supplying the opportunity for people to volunteer, if they are standing in line or waiting at a traffic light and they can pull out their mobile device and contribute something in some sort of thought-provoking way, let them do so. That is what we mean by omnichannel. Take advantage of that any way you possibly can. Hugh: You said something about five-minute segments. Remind, refresh, and renew. Talk more about that. Mark: What I am finding is short segments of content that provoke people. Just like when you read something from me on Twitter, you’re telling me that I am inspiring you, I am provoking some thoughts, I am causing you to think about new things, maybe connect some new dots. The bulk of those tweets are 140 characters. There are some that run a little bit longer thanks to Twitter’s new length limits, but it’s a very short little boom. It’s a little thought bomb that goes off in your brain. As a nonprofit, most of us are in business to inspire, to have people live a better life, to improve their condition, to stay on target, to stay on task, to stay on the straight and narrow. That requires constant reminders. Another thing to keep in mind is if you are a church or an organization where people come to see you once a week or once a month, it’s not enough. They are bombarded by all these other messages and all these other counter-messages that they may not wish to consume. Our job is to remind them there is another way of thinking. There is another opportunity. There is better potential for them that they have already volunteered to be a part of. If we can chunk our messages from a text standpoint, an audio standpoint, or a short video standpoint to refresh, renew, and remind themselves there is a reason why those of us who have a spiritual practice, it’s a daily practice if not hourly. Hugh: Yes. Oh yes. That is so important. I think the biggest flaw I see in organizations is when people say, “They should know better because we told them that,” but they told them that in 1903, and you have repeated it since then. Mark: Here’s the problem, friends. You may have told them that, but the other side has told them their viewpoint a thousand times since the last time you said it. Hugh: Omnichannel. When I first saw that, I thought it was a piece of software. Mark: It’s a concept. Hugh: Russell is taking good notes. Do you want to weigh in on this omnichannel touchpoint? Mark, what you’re doing is top of mind marketing, isn’t it? Mark: Yes. Let’s just keep reminding them what they have asked us to remind them of. Hugh: Russell? He’s been very polite. Mark: He’s been quiet. He’s been smiling. He is giving me thumbs up. He is also muted. Russell Dennis: Not anymore. We can quickly fix that. Greetings and salutations, Mark. Good to see you again. It’s been a while. I was just typing that when you’re out there in multiple places, where your people are, and that’s the important thing to figure out is where your people are and getting out there and getting in front of them. We are in a short attention span society. If you’re not out there online, you’re left behind. It’s not a fad. It’s not a trend. It’s here to stay. Hugh: I think it’s also in person. Where do your people hang out? I am hearing omnichannel as virtual as well as live. Mark: Absolutely. Physical, too. It has to do with digital signage for example. Digital signage is omnichannel. Most of us have digital signage in our houses of worship. As I pointed out, as we talked about, where are they? Let’s see if we can put a digital sign in the places our people hang out to remind them of the messages they have agreed to consume. Hugh: Great. We are sitting at the top of 2018. Our market has been growing. There are over 100 companies that announced employee dividends and financial expansion of programs since the tax bill passed at the end of 2017. There are all kinds of energy and economy. Talk about how that benefits the nonprofit sector. Mark: We are sitting at the highest consumer satisfaction index of all time. I think it’s for a number of reasons. One is that a lot of people are feeling good about themselves again. A lot of them have hope for the future. A lot of them feel that in spite of the noise we hear on the mainstream news on a regular basis, locally, the communities are doing well. More people have jobs. More people are feeling good about what’s possible. Certainly my business has been substantially increased. As you pointed out, yours has, too. A big part of it is that my customers are looking forward to growth and therefore investing in opportunities to grow. As a nonprofit, you can plug into this feeling of goodness and growth, asking for more than you could ask for in the past. Requesting more. Asking people to donate more for perhaps more time, for perhaps a higher level of investment of themselves into the organization. When people are feeling good, they say yes to opportunities because it doesn’t feel like it’s so heavy. Doesn’t feel like it’s such a burden. When we feel depressed, it’s very hard for people to feel good about themselves. Hugh: What makes people say yes? I still have lots of- Mark: What a great question! I’m so glad you asked it. What makes people say yes is because your request is in alignment with their personal identity. Hugh: Whoa. Whoa. Hey, Russ. What does that trigger with you? Russell: It’s everything. Everything revolves around relationships now. People are starting to figure that out. It doesn’t matter what business you’re in. Now you have to build relationships. In the old days, you could just blurt out at people. There were very few places for them to get a message. They were fed by three big networks messages. Think about Henry Ford when he talked about the Model T. They can have any car they want as long as it’s black. Now people have choices. They have different avenues for expression, and they have short attention spans, so you have to resonate with people because they will look for another cause if they feel like they’re not being romanced, so to say. You have to keep that connection some type of way, keep thanking them, showing the impact they are making, and staying with it. People change. There are so many different causes that they can get involved with now. It’s like anything else to maintain that brand loyalty as it were. You have to connect with your tribe. People want a sense of connection and a sense of accomplishment. Younger people coming into the work force want to do work that matters. Hugh: Mark, I pinged Russell because many times in the interviews, he helps us remember that whether you are creating board members or talking to donors, we have to think about what it is they want, what they are interested in, what they want to achieve. There is a messaging piece that I was honing in on here. How do we form our message so that we do connect with that like-minded person? Mark: Let’s get back to the concept of personal identity. People buy things to support their identity or they buy things or engage in things to help them transform their identity into a new place that they desire to be. It’s a really important concept because all sales, all marketing, all recruiting, all conversion happens when a person sees their identity as that which you are offering as a nonprofit. That transformation for a lot of people is where we’re heading. As people grow, they transform. As young people go from high school to college, they are transforming. As they go from college into the workforce, they are transforming. That personal identity, how you view yourself and how you want to be viewed by—Russell, you said it right on—tribe, we choose our tribe, and the choices that we make determine our tribe. In a model I generated, those tribe decisions are mission-critical. The reason why is because if you make the wrong choices, the people who you might like may just stop calling you back. They may quit inviting you out. They might leave you on your own. That is where that personal identity comes into play. Identity happens way more than people realize. A great example of that is sports. Russell, do you consider yourself a sports fan? Russell: I love it. Mark: Do you have a team? Russell: Believe it or not, I root for the Cleveland Browns. Mark: Why the hell would an intelligent man like you root for such a losing team when a logical person would pick a winning team to root for? Russell: I grew up there. Mark: That’s it. Yes! Russell: I haven’t lived there in almost 40 years, but home is home. Mark: It’s part of your core identity. It is so deeply ingrained in your core identity that I couldn’t get you to wear a piece of the opposing team’s clothing even if I paid you. That’s the power of identity. When you as a nonprofit can tap into that identity, that is where you really get that brand experience where people refuse to go anywhere else. But you have to keep reinforcing that identity. You have to make sure that the identity you’re offering continues to shift in the proper direction over time. In a growing economy, people have the opportunity of transforming that identity. That is really where we’re going with this #2 point. It gives you a chance to perhaps recruit people, to bring people in that you haven’t been able to before because they couldn’t afford it, they didn’t have the bandwidth or the money. Now they do. Get very clear. A definitive passionate, audience that wants to be recognized or grow their identity can help you as an organization grow. Get really clear. Get really sharp about this. It will have a massive impact for you in 2018. Cool? Hugh: Absolutely. You talked about unemployment. The numbers show the unemployment figures at the end of 2017 were the lowest they’ve been in forever. But there are still people who are underemployed. They are not unemployed. Mark: In fact, those underemployed people are the ones who are perfect for volunteers. The reason why is as humans, we like to feel we are making a difference. Russell, you pointed that out in your last comments. We really want to feel we are doing good, like we are making a difference. When we are underemployed, we don’t have that feeling that we are living up to our potential. People in that environment can be invited to fulfill that in a nonprofit volunteer situation. Whether it’s an executive who has moved to a lower position, who needs to give back and still provide that strategic input, that is the perfect person to capture for example. Or perhaps the stay at home mom who went back to work because her kids are out of the house, and as she enters back in, she doesn’t go back in at the top level where she started. She comes in at a lower level, and she needs to fill that gap of feeling good about herself until she can be promoted up to that new level. That is the opportunity that you as a nonprofit can fill. Hugh: You spoke earlier about working with a local nonprofit in Las Vegas where you live. Why did you say yes to that? Mark: For two reasons. One is that I have an expertise that the association can use. I can benefit the association in quite a few different ways because of my deep history in business and as a professional. And that association also allows me, it feeds me in that I get to be with other people whose future is my history. And so I get a chance to give back because if I rewind my life back 30 years, I was the person who is being served by the mentor who I get to be today. Hugh: So your input is important to shaping the future of their work. Mark: And they have a desire to have a similar experience that I had. When we are looking for a mentor—this is probably one of the best pieces of advice I’ve had in my life—look for somebody whose history is your future. They can help you plot the path. While your paths will be slightly different, the fundamentals won’t be that far off. Hugh: Russell, did you capture that last comment? Russell: I did not. I was in the process of typing that. I don’t type very quickly. This is interesting because what we are talking about, there are three things that a nonprofit needs: time, talent, and treasure. We get obsessed with the money and forget about time and talent. Especially with people who are underemployed, people have different motivations for joining you. When you are clear about what it is you are trying to do and you have inventoried all of your assets, which include time, talent, skills, knowledge, abilities, those are all assets to the nonprofit. When you can leverage that and get other people, it’s like money in the bank because you go out, build relationships, get sponsors for media, cash sponsors, you go out and get people to contribute pro bono services, you bring students in, you bring professional firms. There is a number of different ways to approach getting pro bono talent. When you are clear on who you are and what you need, you can offer these folks some time. Maybe they need to build their portfolio. Maybe they are tried and just want to give back. Maybe they are entering the workforce. Maybe they are underemployed and want to have some projects and creations of their own. You can set that table. When you are clear on what it is that people want, then they will come support you and always keep evaluating, putting challenges out there for them to stretch and grow and invest in their learning. They have reasons to stick with you in that case. Mark: Right on. I think if you get the time and talent right, the treasure follows automatically. The reason why is what is money? It is a reward for doing what others want. It’s canned labor. That’s another way of looking at it. Russell: Canned labor, but meaningful labor. It’s not standing at a copy machine all day or making coffee. It’s actually creating things. Building your social media strategy, writing policies, it’s endless the number of things you can find volunteers to do that they can help support the organization with. Yes, even fundraising. The sky’s the limit. It’s up to your own creativity and finding out what moves people. If you don’t have any money, you probably have time and talent. Mark: They probably know people. There is also ways of converting some of that talent and some of that time into treasure. If you think about it, that’s what a business does. It converts time and talent into treasure. As a nonprofit, you can do exactly the same thing. Your tax status permits that to happen. Hugh: Money is also reward for providing value. Russell: Another way to keep score. Mark: That’s universally agreed upon. Hugh: Back to where we were talking at the beginning of this interview about installing sound business principles into the charity. I am using charity purposefully here. Sometimes we use the word “nonprofit,” which spins us into this scarcity thinking that we can’t generate a profit. But the profit is what pays for the philanthropic work of the organization. Like you said, it’s not a business plan. It’s not a philosophy. It’s a tax classification. It’s really tax exempt work. We are getting a lot of useful content today about leveraging what is around us instead of getting stuck in our hole, our silo. You ready to move to the next one? Mark: Let’s do it. I think we have beaten that topic up a little bit. I like it. Hugh: #3 is New Leadership Demands. What is changing, and how do we stay out front? I remember years ago people were hiring the motivational speaker. Give me rah, rah. Then people left the room, and it was over. People aren’t hiring motivational speakers. They are hiring people with solid, executable content. What has changed in the leadership segment? What are you thinking about? Mark: What I see is the informational speaker and the inspirational speaker versus motivational speaker. Let’s talk about that, and then we will go on to the topic of what’s changing with leadership. The difference between a motivational speaker and an inspirational speaker is very simple. If we go back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which I see as a fundamental to everything we do, both within the charitable sector as well as the business sector, those two lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy is physical needs and then security. Within those two levels, you can motivate people. It’s basically a pain-based motivation. Once we get to that next level, where you have love and self-esteem and move up to self-actualization, that is where inspiration comes into play. If people are in pain, you have to motivate them. If people are out of pain, then you can inspire them. Don’t try to be inspirational when people are hungry and tired and scared. That doesn’t work. It’s just frustrating. They will nod their heads and do what they need to do to get the hell out of your view so they can go get some food or drink or get warm or whatever. We have to help people to the third level of Maslow because we can start to inspire them. With that in mind, from a leadership standpoint, understanding your leadership is 100% contextual on the state of the person and ultimately the team you are working with. That is not a blinding flash of the obvious to most of you, but we have to be reminded of that because a lot of the traditional leadership mantras that we hear are being offered from the top of Maslow’s hierarchy. But a lot of the people we are leading are way down the hierarchy, and we have to remember that sometimes it’s just giving them a shoulder to cry on and taking them out to lunch or buying them a cup of coffee. Sometimes that’s all the leadership they need in that moment. Hugh: Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. What are you thinking there, Russ? You’re smiling. Russell: The thought came to mind that great leaders always have a pulse on where their people are because no two people are in the same place. Cookie cutter leadership doesn’t work. It may have worked back at the turn of the 20th century. Mark: It didn’t work then either, Russell. I hate to tell you, pal. It was just misreported. Russell: They pushed it as, “Get in line or go work somewhere else.” That doesn’t work. Good leaders build other leaders around them because that is what makes a great leader look good. We have people who can execute or delegate, and she is doing high level functions. Sometimes you have high performance individuals, and it is really hard- When they have been driving the train for a long time, it’s really difficult for them to take a step back because they have their vision and it’s their baby. They have a hard time taking a step back. This is a way that leaders have to grow in. If people in the work force today aren’t getting work that means something. They move on. Do yourself a favor and let other people help you. Mark: I think some of the things we have to take a look at from a change standpoint is that our millennial culture, I raised five millennial children. None of them live at home. I consider myself to be a success. They don’t put up with ultimatums. They’ll just raise their middle finger and wave you goodbye. The reality is that leadership is now voluntary. It was always voluntary, but it is now absolutely voluntary. People accept leadership voluntarily, and a charitable organization has always been voluntary. We have to become a whole lot more about what it is you are looking for. How can I help you grow? Where do you want to go? What do you need to help you get there? Can we help you get there? It’s a lot more of the let’s figure out where our tribe needs to go and bring that to them. I think that’s a big component of that. We raised our children to question authority. The boomer generation just shakes their head at, “I am a boomer.” Friends, I raise that generation. I raised them to be what I wanted to be when I was their age, which was to have the freedom to ask questions and to push back and to say, “That’s really stupid. Why do you make that?” When I was a kid, that earned a slap across the face, so I learned to shut up very quickly. I let my kids ask those questions. They were hard questions. They made me a better man. That also means that military-style, authoritarian leadership will no longer work. It has to be collaborative leadership. But how do we do collaborative leadership? It’s simple. You just ask people. You ultimately, as the leader of your organization, get to make the decision. But you also have to have that collaboration of how we arrive at the destination. You are responsible for the destination. Then we collaborate on how we get there. That is what I see as being a major shift. Hugh: That is especially true in nonprofits because we do attract some capable people. We think we have to do it as a leader because we don’t want to bother them because they are volunteers and are busy in their real life. Mark: But wait a minute. That’s why they showed up. Hugh: You got it. I set that one up good. You are really interfering with what somebody has come to do. That seems like a logical step. That is a huge problem. Bowen leadership systems, Murray Bowen as a psychiatrist created this whole leadership methodology. He talks about that as overfunctioning, and the reciprocity to overfunctioning is underfunctioning. Especially when you have a boomer, me, and you are talking to millennials, like the editor of our magazine, Todd, he says, “Tell me where you want to be, and let me get there.” Nobody likes being told the steps or micromanaged. Millennials like it the least of any particular segment. You raised five millennials, and I don’t see any wounds on your body. Mark: I’m a much better man. Before I raised my five millennial kids, I was a jerk. Hugh: Really? Mark: Yeah. I knew everything. I knew exactly how to do it, and I could prove it. If you didn’t believe me, I’d write a book about it. Hugh: Wow. Russell: I just sense that pleasure. Here’s the thing, Mark. They’ll be back. They will bring more with them. Mark: It gets better and better and more disruptive and more delicious. Hugh: There is a story of this conductor, who are known to have healthy egos. This conductor walks into a restaurant with a whole bunch of musicians. One person stood up on one side and said, “All conductors are jerks.” Whoa, it got back like this. On the other side, somebody stood up and said, “I resent that comment.” The conductor looked at him and said, “Hey, are you a conductor, too?” He says, “No, I’m a jerk.” I love it. That is a reframed lawyer joke. Mark: The way I like to talk about conductors is conductors are highly skilled. They can play every instrument in the orchestra. They can. But not well enough to make a living. At the end of the show- Russell: [hard to hear] tickets on the train, either. Hugh: The model you are talking about is the conductor doesn’t tell them step by step what they do. The conductor says to the oboe player, the violinist, whatever, “This is the effect I want. This is the result I want.” They guide the process. I wanted to segue into that as a model for what you’re talking about. That has been a consistent model over the decades. If we look at that in today’s world, leadership as a profound influence and not the micro that you are talking about, do this, do this, do this. It’s a nuance of engaging people and empowering people to raise the bar. That is the essence of transformational leadership really: building a culture of high performers that respond to you. So we are looking at what has changed, but also we are looking at- Earlier, you talked about transformation. There is a transformation in ourselves before we can be effective. How does that link with what you’re talking about? Mark: Everybody that I know is going through some form of transformation. They are trying to add a new skill. They are trying to let go of an old habit they see as not serving their life any further. They may be going through a spiritual revolution where they are going from less spiritual to more spiritual. It may be that they are looking for a physical transformation, losing weight, adding muscle, adding health. Those transformations always trigger help because if we could do it on our own, we already would have. We need either skills or encouragement or motivation or a tribe to travel with. Let’s talk about transformation for just a minute. Let’s have some fun with this. I know that we bumped into this idea with me before, Hugh, and let’s talk about it. I think we have enough time. It’s fairly simple. There is fundamentally a seven-step process in transformation, plus a step zero and a step minus one. Hugh: Ooh, do tell. Mark: The first half is about belief. The second half is about knowledge. The difference between belief and knowledge is a manifestation in the physical world. Step minus one is where they want to go. The transformation they want to enjoy is invisible. They can’t even see it. It’s not even within their awareness. It’s not even possible. They hadn’t even thought of it. If you as a charitable organization want to find new people, part of your job is to message the outcome that you deliver so that we can take people who don’t even see that as an opportunity into something that is within their awareness. Then step zero, going from invisible to impossible. That is the step zero. “Oh, that’s impossible. I could never do that. I don’t see how that’s possible.” That’s step zero. The transformation starts when they go from the impossible to, “Hmm, that could be possible. You have 1,000 people in this community that has made this transformation? Wow. You’ve helped that many people? It is possible.” Then the next step is to probable. “I could probably do this. I don’t have all the answers. I may not know my path yet, but this is probable. I could do this.” Then the third step moves to inevitable. “This is going to happen. Oh yeah. Let’s make this happen. Yeah.” Hugh: Minus one is where- Mark: Minus one is invisible. Don’t even know it is possible. Hugh: Invisible, okay. Mark: Step zero is impossible. Hugh: Okay. One is possible. Mark: Possible. Hugh: Two is probable. Mark: Two is probable. Hugh: And three is? Mark: Inevitable. Hugh: Inevitable. Mark: This is going to happen! I know how to do this. Whoo-hoo. Help me! Hugh: Russell is scribing these. He is capturing the brilliance. Mark: That is all based on increasing belief because the transformation has not yet become physical. It is still nonphysical. It is thought and that is about it. Now we cross over from the nonphysical to the physical, from the belief to the real. Step four is real. We go from inevitable to real. From real to sustainable. I did it! Okay, let’s do it again. I can do this any time I want. That is sustainable. Then we go from sustainable, step five, to step six, which is normal. “I do this all the time. Sure, of course. This is just part of my life.” To step seven, which is historical. “I have always done it this way.” If we are working people through a transformational process—invisible, impossible, possible, probable, inevitable, real, sustainable, normal, historical—if we can run people through that process, we can help them through their transformation. But here is the most important aspect. You can’t take somebody from impossible to inevitable in one step. That is the psychology of leadership. We have to help them move from impossible to probable. We have to help them move from probable to inevitable. We have to help them move from inevitable to real. Each one of those is a step, as we are crossing this chasm, let’s call it a river, from impossible to historical, going from one side to the other. Every step is a slippery rock that as they reach out with their foot, it may feel like, “I don’t know if I can do this.” Our job as leaders is to hold their finger, hold their hand. When I was raising my kids, we would do- Kids were going across the rocks, and I would give them a finger. All they had to do was hang onto my finger. That was enough to give them the confidence to take the step. My kids would grab that finger, and we could move them. You did this, right? Russell, you’ve done this with your kids? Just give them a little bit. We don’t need to hold them in an airman’s grip. We just have to give them a finger to hang onto. Russell: If you don’t want to carry them, you just give them that finger. It’s just enough. Less is more. Mark: That’s right. Russell: More, and they step into that power. That’s what it’s about. Whatever the mind can conceive and make itself believe, it can achieve. That is a process. Mark: You just summarized those seven plus two steps in three words. Hugh: Thank you, Mr. Hill. Mark: Yes indeed. Hugh: That is a profound statement. I was really small, walking with my father, and I would hold a finger. One day, he put a stick there. I kept going because I thought I had his hand. All I had was a stick. When I grew up, I repeated that dirty trick with my kids. Russell: Interesting. That brings a story to mind. I don’t know how old I was. I may have been two or three. My mother used to carry me upstairs at night. One night, my mother and sister brought me upstairs, stood me in front of the crib, and said, “Okay. Climb in.” I was baffled. I didn’t do anything. So they said, “Okay, well, you will climb in or you will stand there all night.” I don’t know how long I stood there. It turns out they were there watching. It wasn’t very long. I climbed up in that crib. Oh, okay, I got to do this or it’s not going to happen. I never forgot that. I don’t remember much that happened before five. As five gets further away, it’s harder to remember. But that was something I never forgot. A lot of life is like that. Hugh: That’s a great story. That’s a big leadership example. The last one of your five topics for the year is Turning Unrest into Peace: How to Divorce Your Organization from the Media’s Promotion of Outrage. What ever are you talking about? Mark: I’ll be delighted to share with you. With the broad spread availability of Internet and mobile devices, the media got out of the news business. The reason why is the news was available any time I chose to pick up my mobile device and read the news from dozens of news sources. The fundamental TV news made a wholesale pivot from news to opinion and entertainment. You watch any of the mainstream news, and they are not delivering news. They are delivering opinion, not even fact. Opinion. It’s the mot hilarious thing. I watch the news now and laugh. I just see it like reality TV. It is completely scripted. Whatever side they are trying to spin, that is what it is. What is truth? I have no idea anymore. The challenge is to get people to watch opinion, you have to generate outreach. You have to go to them and say, “Isn’t this awful? Isn’t this unfair? This is just horrible. I can’t see how we can even stand doing this anymore.” That outrage allows you to sit through the commercials for pharmaceutical products that help you fix the outrage. You laugh because it’s true. Russell: Okay. I’m going to give up on MSNBC and Fox Noise because- Mark: It is noise. I can watch Hannity once a week. It’s the same story every night. Here’s the thing. First of all, you have to realize that the news business is really to do one thing. It’s not to inform you. It’s to sell advertising. Pure and simple. Their job is to create a community that wants to be outraged a specific way and to promote that outrage so people feel like something is going on. They feel like something is important, but the reality my friends, in the world of charitable organizations, we are offering another way of thinking, another way of feeling. We are offering perhaps a better feeling. I feel way better after going to church than I do after watching the evening news. That circles back to our #1 point today, which is omnichannel. We have to keep providing our message on a regular basis daily, hourly, morning, evening to counter all of the outrage that people are being fed from a commercial stream. Go ahead. Carry on. What do you have in mind there, Hugh? Hugh: Wow. Wow. Where people are getting into an emotional state, not a factual thinking leadership functioning state. We are going into this- Mark: Facts don’t matter anymore when it comes to mainstream news. Hugh: We are in a post-truth culture. Mark: We are. It’s really interesting. Hugh: When we hear comments like “The media lies,” I watched purposefully for several weeks reports on CNN, CBN, PBS, and FOX. They were all different. Mark: Yes. Hugh: Which one is lying? Or are they all lying? Mark: None of them are lying. They are presenting their vision of what they want you to believe. Facts have nothing to do with anything. They believe It’s true. They look you square in the eye through the camera and make you believe they believe it. And they do. Otherwise they couldn’t deliver that. Let’s circle back to the facts that matter to us and to constituents of our organization. That is what we need to focus on. Hugh: We have eight minutes. We are wrapping up here. That is a perfect segue, thank you. Go ahead. Mark: The whole point is we need to make sure our message and our leadership and our direction and our transformation is absolutely clear. We have to supply at last some rational thinking. When people say, “Did you hear what the news was?” and the answer is, “Do you believe it?” Let’s focus on something you can believe. So help pivot people away from buying into something that we keep illustrating over and over again is patently not in alignment with the belief and the worldview that we wish. We have to substitute the worldview that our tribe wishes to see. Personally, I see humanity as growing, expanding, being bigger-hearted than ever before. The people in my environment, the people I bump into, including the folks on the street that ask me for help, are doing better than ever before. My job is to elevate, not to outrage. I think that there are way more people that have that desire than ever before, and perhaps that is why Cartoon Network has a higher rating than CNN. It’s because we want to feel good. We don’t want to feel bad. As a charitable organization, bringing that good news to people and giving them things they can do to feel better about themselves and to improve humanity and their tribe is probably the ultimate thing we can bring to our constituents. Russell: To piggyback on what you are saying, out of my own experience, I was an advertising salesman for WGAM TV while I was in college. Our most expensive segment was the news slots. That supports that, and that has been the case for quite some time now. That was a few years ago. The other thing is people are looking to raise their level of consciousness. The media likes to exacerbate this idea of taking sides. One thing that happened to me as a result of my experience working with the Native American tribe is I became nonpartisan here. The people who were going to help you may be on other sides of the aisle. I was literally more interested in what was going to benefit my tribe than what fit their politics. What we are talking about really is raising our level of consciousness. Me, for the most part, I am tuned out on those things. I can’t watch that stuff. If I do happen to catch glimpses of it, nobody lives out in the middle of nowhere. There are a few people off the grid, but you will be exposed to some of the noise. Does that noise matter? We are trying to raise our level of consciousness, and there are people who need our help. When that is the driving thing, you learn how to play nice with others, but you don’t always have to agree on everything, except who is it you want to help and how can you get there. You leave all of the ego and crap on the doorstep and come together to perform missions. I’m glad you haven’t said anything that made me so angry I have to go put a nasty tweet out. I have a Twitter account, and I don’t want to use it. Mark: Personally, I have a positive posting policy. If I can’t say something nice, I write them a letter and burn it. Russell: As long as you don’t mail it. That could get you in a lot of trouble. Mark: If you are writing a letter to somebody or emailing, don’t ever put their address in there as you write it. Otherwise you might by accident send it. Guilty as charged. Russell: It’s good to write letters every once in a while. Us old guys write letters. You can write letters. Younger folks out there, it’s a dying art. It’s fun. Mark: It’s great fun. I wrote myself a letter on New Year’s Eve. It’s part of our ritual: to write ourselves letters. Just to wrap up this segment, an important component is what is your core principle as a leader? Focus on activities that will provide you and your tribe with those core principles. My core principle is freedom. Everything I do needs to lead me to freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of action, freedom of life. From that freedom, I can serve people. I can’t serve people when I am not free, from a thought standpoint, a physical standpoint, a monetary standpoint. I use that personally as my filter. If I am going to do something, say something, act in some way, the question is: Does this bring me closer to more freedom, or does this take freedom away from me? It could be anything else. It could be oneness. It could be joy. It could be love. It doesn’t really matter. All of them boil down to the same situation anyway. Just that word resonates with me. I think ultimately that is what we need to do to bring peace to our tribe. Hugh: Our strategy is Russell and I encourage people to be very clear on their vision while they are doing something. As charities, we have to be very good at defining the impact of our work. What difference will it make? We achieve all of that through setting powerful goals. You have given us a whole lot of ideas for goals. Russell mentioned him before, and he is looking behind you there. Behind you is Henry Ford. Mark: Actually that is Edison. Carry on. Hugh: They lived next door to each other down in Fort Myers. Mark: They did. Hugh: Edison said he never failed; he just found 9,999 things that didn’t work before he invented the light bulb. Ford said obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off your goals. They are both dedicated to excellence. They were both in tune with the culture and trends of their day. Mark Smith, I don’t know a lot of people with two middle initials. Mark S. A. Smith. You stand out from all those other Mark Smiths. Mark: That is the reason why. That way you can find me on Google. Hugh: They are impostors. Mark: No, they are not impostors. They are just hiding. Hugh: This is really rich in content. Russell, do you have a closing comment you want to leave here? Russell: There we are. I’d like to thank Mark for the thoughts he dropped. You are preaching to the choir. It’s about who you are. That’s a message that has to ring true. Who are you? Who are you, and that way you can connect with the people that you are aligned with. I love the alignment. Great comments. Notes in the SynerVision Leadership webinar notebook. I have the notes, Hugh. It will also be out there for folks to look at. It’s a great day here. Hugh: Super. Mark, thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with us. Mark: Delightful to be here. Thank you for the invitation to do so. We have plenty more in 2018. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ending Human Trafficking Through Increasing Community Awareness & Prevention Education (CAPE) Organization: Rotary Action Group Against Slavery Every leader has a network they have built over their lifetime. I firmly believe God is calling His church to end human trafficking by mobilizing them where they are to learn more about human trafficking and help elevate Community Awareness and activate the networks God has given them to help implement Prevention Education thereby starting a CAPE plan for their community. This is done through leveraging networks, creating stakeholder partnerships, and helping them achieve their mission. I see this happening through churches and community organizations such as Rotary International. With an estimated <1% of trafficking cases properly reported and tracked, an aware community, empowered and equipped with the tools to report cases will increase opportunities to root out this evil and help the victims. A community with Prevention Education in the schools will also be less of a target for traffickers when they are scouting for potential victims. The combination of Community Awareness & Prevention Education is key to preventing human trafficking. It is not the end, but the beginning of the end. Amelia J. Stansell Amelia Stansell, DGND District 7610, President-Elect of the Rotary Club of Warrenton, a mother, and a Senior Commercial Loan Officer with UVA Community Credit Union. In 2017 Amelia attended the Atlanta Rotary International Convention where Human Trafficking was a major topic. In 2017 Amelia felt the call to invite a speaker to her Rotary Club to talk about Sex Trafficking. Little did she know then, that was just the beginning of her journey with the topic. On that August day, with the support of her Rotary Club, she formed the Fauquier Anti Sex Trafficking Alliance (FASTA). The FASTA mission is “to inoculate our community through awareness and prevention education, and supporting survivors and their families when we fail. [They] are an alliance of community organizations, agencies, and individuals working toward this common goal.” Through this group, she works to create community awareness through a series of Community Conversations with partners such as Anti-Trafficking International, Reset 180, Fauquier County Sheriff’s Office, Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI. These forums are held in middle schools and churches since 2018. Amelia joined the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery after speaking at the 2019 Rotary International Convention in Hamburg, Germany. She serves as the State Coordinator for Virginia. In 2021 she had the opportunity to facilitate the RAGAS Community Awareness & Prevention Education (CAPE) Strategic Action Plan and has spent the past year sharing it with clubs and districts around the world. We are honored to have her here today as she shares about Human Trafficking Globally, nationally as well as locally, and how we as Rotarians can unleash our inner superpowers to be superheroes in their community by starting a Community Awareness & Prevention Education project through the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery. Outside of Rotary Amelia enjoys gardening, volunteering, and traveling. She and her husband are on a mission in 50 countries and 50 states before the age of 50. She is currently in 30 countries and 46 states and has 6 years to go if you want to do the math on her age. They live in Warrenton with their daughters Amelia Grace and Bitsy and their crazy orange tabby cat, Butchie. For more information about the Rotary initiative, go to - https://ragas.online Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Media Power for Nonprofit Organizations: Connecting to Supporters in a Very Influential, Impactful, and Inspirational Way Scott Murray, the co-founder of Murray Media, has served as the Chairman/CEO since its inception. For three decades, he was the Sports Director/Anchor on the local NBC nightly news in both Dallas/Fort Worth and Washington, DC. In addition, he served as a television host of countless TV specials, radio host of several programs, master of ceremonies at thousands of live events and charity galas, as well as both keynote speaker and moderator at hundreds of corporate conferences and industrial conventions. Scott remains a sought-after keynote speaker as well as a published author of two books, Whatever It Takes and Bring Out the BEST. Scott’s lifetime love and commitment to philanthropic endeavors resulted in the creation of The Scott Murray Foundation, “Lifting Spirits… Building Dreams” to benefit both sick children and those in need. He was also a founding partner of Edgington/ Murray Philanthropic Advisors, an innovative team of experienced fundraising and nonprofit consultants where the culture is one of “aspire philanthropy… inspire humanity.” For decades, Scott has remained very active in the north Texas community while serving on the board/advisory boards of countless children’s, civic, charitable, nonprofit, and professional organizations, which he has assisted in raising both great awareness and millions of dollars in revenue in both Texas and across the nation. Scott’s commitment to community has resulted in his being honored with a number of prestigious awards as well. More about Scott Murray and his work on the following links: Leadership America - https://leadershipamerica.net Murray Media - https://www.murraymedia.net Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How Fundraising Really Works: How to Secure the Best Talent Interview With Jason Lewis Jason Lewisis a CFRE & AFP Master Trainer who provides the sector with an often needed contrarian voice, willing to question deeply ingrained beliefs and assumptions of how effective fundraising really works. Whether writing or speaking, Jason challenges the prevailing wisdom about effective fundraising practices, hiring decisions, and donor behavior. Jason’s first book, The War for Fundraising Talent, is an honest yet hopeful critique of professional fundraising, intended especially for small shops that find it difficult to consistently achieve their fundraising goals. Jason is the host of The Fundraising Talent Podcast. Every week, Jason and his guest have an honest conversation about what it means to be a fundraising professional. The podcast provides listeners with a better understanding of what it means to be in one of the sector’s critically important yet least understood roles. Jason is the creator of The Fundraising Toolbox, introduced in the conclusion ofThe War for Fundraising Talent, which consists of four planning models designed to ensure that nonprofit organizations can align their board, professional staff and volunteers around a shared understanding of how effective fundraising really works. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Collaborate to Innovate: Unlocking Success in Nonprofit Partnerships Michelle Shumate is the founder and owner of Social Impact Network Consulting (SINC). Through SINC, she helps social impact leaders find nuanced solutions through coaching and consulting. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Her work has been featured in Stanford Social Innovation Review, Nonprofit Quarterly, and Youth Today. Michelle is the founding director of Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact (NNSI), the Delaney Family University Research Professor, and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University. She is also spouse to Michael, mom to Oliver and Alex, and an avid backyard birdwatcher. Sustained Collaboration is a powerful strategic tool for nonprofit leaders to build resilience and increase their social impact. I'd like nonprofit leaders and clergy to: 1. Learn about the types of sustained collaboration available, including mergers, asset transfers, shared service arrangements, shared projects, and alliances. 2. Consider these types of collaborations as strategic tools to (a) embark on a strategic transformation, (b) establish new programs or improve and expand existing programs, (c) develop new efficiencies through shared assets, (d) create policy wins, (e) encourage innovation, and (f) produce better quality outcomes for clients and the community. More information at the following sites: https://sustainedcollab.org  https://michelleshumate.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tips to Becoming an Exceptional Board Member with Jeb Banner As the CEO and a Founder of Boardable, Jeb Banner is passionate about community nonprofits, entrepreneurship, and more. He also founded SmallBox, a creative agency for mission-driven organizations, and is co-founder of The Speak Easy and founder of Musical Family Tree, both 501(c)(3) nonprofits.   Interview Transcript Jeb Banner: More and more. I was running another business at the time, which worked mostly with nonprofits called SmallBox, a creative agency here in Indy. As we raised some money and as the business turned off, I shifted from SmallBox to Boardable in the course of 2017. I went full-time in 2018. My wife actually took over the agency and runs that now. We are all in the same building in Indianapolis here in the old library. We still get to work together, but different floors. Hugh Ballou: Awesome. Jeb, we write a plan, set some goals, and we give it to the board. It’s all a done deal. The board embraces it. What is your experience with boards? Jeb: Boards are busy. Boards are over-committed. Board members are often serving on multiple boards. They are spread thin. This is one of the challenges we want to solve in the product, eventually building out a talent marketplace on Boardable’s platform to give boards access to a wider pool of talent. This is a real challenge. These great people who serve on boards often get called to serve on other boards. When they show up, they’re often reading the material at the Stop sign, on the drive in, in the parking lot, during the meeting. They’re not always prepared. Board members, as much as they really want to give everything they can, they don’t really have the time to do it because they’re spread so thin. Nonprofits struggle to hold board members accountable because they don’t feel comfortable asking them to follow through in a way they should sometimes, or really do the role they need to do in the organization because they’re volunteers. It’s hard to make demands of a volunteer. A lot of what we’re trying to do is build into the product ways for those board members to be nudged toward the right behaviors. Hugh: Well, this is fascinating. Russell, you worked with a nonprofit Indian reservation for many years. Are you hearing some things jump out about boards that you’d like to probe? Russell Dennis: Communication is probably the biggest challenge that board leaders and boards have. We had the challenge up there where I was working of geography working against us. Our board members were scattered over an area that was about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined in a county called Aroostook. Our council members, the government body, or board if you will, would travel from long distances, 60-65 miles some of them, to attend the meeting. We had bi-weekly meetings. In northern Maine, weather is an issue. Being able to communicate is pretty tough. There is more technology available for that. There is challenges in conducting board meetings and staying in touch. Yes, I agree that getting things done can be tough. It can be pretty tricky. A lot of times, when folks like you, entrepreneurs and consultants, people have problems that drive them bananas, that keep them awake. What were some of the key things that were driving you crazy that you thought you had to fix, that motivated you and inspired you to develop a platform to help board members operate an organization more smoothly? Jeb: I think the #1 thing is communication. What you just said there is true. Keeping up that communication between meetings. Doing it in a way that meets people where they are. Everybody has their own style. Some people like to text, some like to email, and some like phone calls. You have people at different technology levels, too. The boards I was running had less of that challenge. Boards I sit on now, that is one of the challenges they have. The #1 headache I experienced as a board chair was centralizing everything. So much was going into my inbox, like the bylaws would be attached to an email from two years ago. Where was the bylaws? There is no central repository. If somebody rolled off the board, their inbox rolled off the board with them. All that communication, all those documents they may have been working on just vanishes. That is a real problem with boards. There is no continuity if you are using those kinds of tools. They are not built for that. They are built for immediacy. That centralization was pain point #1. After that comes the communication pain point. Having a place where everything flows. If you start a discussion in Boardable, it goes into their inbox and phones. It responds, and it goes back in. It’s always back in the system. That is a real headache. The third thing we thought about was it has to be super easy to use. It has to be simple. If you give a board member a tool they can’t use, if they can’t log in, if they can’t make sense of it, it’s worthless. It can do all the things in the world, but it’s worthless. As we have gotten into it further, we think about it a lot more around engagement. We have different dimensions of engagement we think about as well. We can chat about that later. The initial problems were centralization, communication, and simplification. Hugh: Boardable.com. That’s quite an impressive site. We have a couple folks I want to shout out to. Don Ward, who is in Orlando, Florida. He is the president of the CEO clubs in central Florida. Has groups that talk about leadership, business development, and nonprofits. He said, “Board members need to be trained. They think their input and power is far more than it was ever supposed to be. What if…” How would you respond to that, Jeb? Jeb: I think setting and managing expectations with a board member, and that is part of that training, around what their role and responsibility is on the board. Different boards have different levels of responsibility to the organization. Some boards really do have a high level. Fiduciary responsibility in most cases. There are real consequences to their decisions. They often don’t understand that. They don’t understand they are playing with fire, if you will. This is not a practice. Other boards are more advisory, where they are just giving input. Defining that role, and saying to the board member, “Hey, this is what we expect of you. This is your lane.” And being clear about that up front through board training, onboarding, mentorship—giving them a mentor to work with on the board—is a missed opportunity. Based on our research, two thirds to three fourths fail to do any onboarding or training. Then you have a board member that doesn’t know what is expected of them, so they run wild. I agree with that comment. I think board members, not maliciously, they don’t just know their role, so they do what they think they need to do. Hugh: You’re so right. Without clear expectations, leaders are actually setting up conflict. People don’t know where to- They can’t color inside the lines because they don’t know where the lines are. Jeb: That’s right. I think a lot of times, leaders are timid about this. They are uncomfortable having that conversation. They are uncomfortable telling that powerful donor that has joined the board, “Don’t do this.” They have trouble giving them those lines because they are writing checks in some cases, or they are influential. They struggle with that accountability and that clarity. Hugh: That’s a big deal. I hear leaders say, “I can’t correct them because they are volunteers. They’re giving their time.” I served megachurches for 40 years. I had plenty of opportunities to fire volunteers. Sometimes they were happy about it. Most of the time, they were happy about it because they knew it wasn’t a good fit. Actually, I got to a place where we eliminated the word “volunteer” because a lot of the language, like “nonprofit,” which is a lie, and “volunteer,” which is dumbing down, some of the language we use actually contributes to the lower functioning. In the church, we created members of the ministry. It was a leadership position. In my symphony, I am the president of the symphony here, we are on the road to creating a servant leader model, where people have a track, and they lead in the model here. There is a whole lot of things that we set up that we unintentionally set up problems. Talk about this- There is a fear of conflict. People want to step away from it, which fosters it. Making course corrections doesn’t mean you have to tell people they are wrong. Talk about that interaction. That is a big deal, I think. Jeb: I often think- Are you familiar with Patrick Lencioni, the author? Hugh: Five Dysfunctions… Jeb: Five Dysfunctions of a Team. You look at that pyramid. You have to have that trust in order to have conflict, which gets into commitment, which leads to accountability to reinforce it, which outputs results. To have that alignment there, you have to start with trust. Making sure that board member is part- Trust is being part of a team, feeling like they are safe to step up. They can talk about their concerns. They feel they are in a safe space to speak their mind. It’s very hard to engender that without some of that teambuilding work that you need to do with boards. There is some socialization to that. I use a design thinking framework when I work with boards to do small group activities to push conversations and connections so that people feel like they know each other and there is a foundation of trust so they can start to move in that conflict. Conflict is critical. You need to have conflict on a board. Healthy, productive conflict. Not political drama-based conflict, but real conflict where people really care about things. Hugh: it’s a sign of energy, isn’t it? Jeb: It’s a sign of life. If you don’t have it, you have a problem. If everybody is sitting there going, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” you have a dysfunctional board. It may not look like it, but it’s dysfunctional. Hugh: The only place I have seen where there is no conflict is a cemetery. Jeb: There is conflict in the earth between the body and the ground, I’ll tell you that much. Hugh: Oh man. Another watching on Facebook is Don Green, who is in Wise, Virginia. Don Green is the executive director of a nonprofit called The Napoleon Hill Foundation. Don is sending his thank you because this is useful information. Russell, do you want to weigh in on this leader making course corrections? I think this is a bigger topic than most people realize. Russell: Running a nonprofit or an organization is just like flying a plane. When you get into a plane, your pilot takes off, and they are flying along. They are off course the vast majority of the time. They spend the whole time course-correcting. You know where you’re leaving from, and you know where you’re going, but you make a lot of adjustments along the way. Running an organization is a lot like that. That is the thing. I had somebody say to me one time. I was attending a church many years ago back home. These guys are all nice. One of the deacons said, “If you like everybody you’ve met here, you haven’t been to enough services.” There is going to be that conflict from time to time. It’s important to be able to come back together at the end of that day and agree on the common goal. How you get there could be an interesting dynamic. If everybody was the same, people would get bored and walk away. That dynamic tension is what makes the work exciting. Jeb: Absolutely. Hugh: You don’t want a bunch of yes people, do you? Russell: No, it would be very dull. Hugh: Also, we create a culture that is the opposite, where people are afraid of standing out and saying their mind. The real meeting happens in the parking lot. “So yeah, I knew what was going on in there, but here is what I think.” Triangling going on. Jeb, let’s forecast. What does a really great board look like? We were talking about the exceptional board member. Either the board as a whole or a board member. Tell us what that looks like from your perspective. Jeb: I think there are a few dimensions to this. You have the composition of the board itself. The board should be somewhat reflective, not entirely one-to-one of the people it’s serving, but somewhat reflective so there is an empathetic connection to the service being provided. Then I think there should be diversity of age, race, gender. It needs to bring in different perspectives. I don’t have an exact formula for that, but a healthy board has a level of diversity there. Getting into the roles of the board. You look at that. We need someone who has a legal background, depending on the organization, a finance background, a marketing background. It’s important to have that composition as well. Then you look at the actual activity of the board. That’s where I think about engagement. I think about seven dimensions of engagement. Preparation for a board meeting. Are they preparing? Are they reading the materials? Are they showing up to the meetings? Are they following through on what they said they would do? Are they volunteering, getting involved in the organization so they feel the impact of the work? Are they advocating on behalf of the organization? Are they fundraising? Helping raise money. Are they donating? Writing the checks. Looking across those seven dimensions, and then looking at those other areas, I think that then you need leadership. That is the last ingredient. To make sure you have that foundation of safety and trust for conflict, which leads to a healthy dialogue and the ability of that board to really, truly govern the organization. Russell: Our friend Dr. David Gruder develops a lot of tools around that for people to talk to one another. There are some other resources out there like Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone and Bruce Patten. It’s important to be able to do that. What it boils down to is being genuine and authentic. You’re communicating in respectable ways. What are some of the tools you have provided to help board members do that in organizations you work with? Jeb: I’m familiar with Crucial Conversations. Is that a similar framework to what you’re talking about? Russell: Yes, they are different. Jeb: Crucial Conversations is wonderful training. I have done that a couple times. I think that’s great training. It’s a little extensive for a full board to go through. In my experience, I have a background in design thinking. It’s a framework that people-centered. It’s empathy-based. It’s all about starting with the problem. Trying to create a consensus around what the problem is, not what the solution is. There is a lot of different exercises that come from that, different ways that you can facilitate whole and small group exercises. You can do research. There is a whole toolkit that my previous company SmallBox used in our work with nonprofits and boards. For instance, organizational values, which is a part of what the board needs to do. They need to be a part of that values conversation. Mission, vision, those conversations as well. Then you get into strategic planning. There are tools around that from the design thinking background that are helpful for that. Working with the United Way board here in town, we recently redesigned their entire board governance approach. It started with working in small groups to bring in ideas and socialize ideas with the larger board to then refine those, and take those back to leadership, and put them into a plan. I follow that approach, which is more organic. I do think there is good tools out there. My background and training is more in that design thinking framework, which is more custom to the situation. Russell: Custom solution is different. Everyone is different. Everyone on the board is different. What are some challenges in making a board run efficiently that you’ve seen across various types of organizations, some of the universal ones? Jeb: Meetings. Time management. Managing the agenda, managing the conversations, making sure that people are staying on topic. You don’t have people grandstanding. Every board has someone who loves to hear themselves talk. There have been times where it’s been me. I love to hear myself talk. But having the chair or the executive director, it’s best when it’s the chair, be an active facilitator and have some facilitation training, so they learn how to bring in others, make sure everyone has that safe space to be heard. I think that’s critical in a productive board experience. Everything about the board is that meeting. Like you said, the parking lot conversations, that starts to happen a lot when the dysfunction of that meeting deepens. All of that stuff ripples out. You have phone calls and emails. It cascades when that meeting is ineffective. Hugh: I’m a conductor. Especially the better they are, every ensemble rehearses for every performance. We don’t rehearse. Some of the stuff you’re talking about is how we get better at what we do. In a sense, rehearsals, I’d like to share with you sometime later. Meetings are the #1 killer of teams. I have a whole piece that says the agenda is the killer of productivity. Agendas don’t use agendas for rehearsals; we use deliverables. We can accomplish. Goals for the session. We focus on outcomes. That is a reframing. I see everything as a rehearsal. I’m sorry. Jeb: Sure, I can relate to that. Hugh: There are so many things you’ve hit on that are big-deal things that we have to be selective here. I want to go back to this board governance. Russell, he threw a zinger in there that had fire in the name. Did you hear that? About governance and board members. Jeb: Playing with fire. Russell: Playing with fire, yeah. Hugh: Expand on that a little bit. Not having ONC insurance, DNC insurance, Arizona missions not having- Russell: Directors and offices liability insurance policies. It’s critical to protect yourself and to keep the structures separate. Compliance is a big deal when it comes to running these organizations. There is a lot of documentation that is required. Have you found that boards warm up to the challenge of keeping all of that in order? Jeb: Absolutely. I just recently joined a board. A week later, the board resigned, not because I joined the board, but because of issues in the organization. I was the last board member standing. This was an experience. Part of it was because the insurance had not been taken care of. There were other issues and lapse that were not being brought to the board’s attention. It was a two-way street. The leadership in the organization wasn’t doing its job, but neither was the board. The board needs to push to get clarity on those things. Part of why that happened is they did push. It was a bit of a mess. I found myself moving into a chair role when I expected to be a board member, and having to help the organization, and still now, get back up on its feet. It’s been a crash course in a lot of the things we’re talking about. When I’m talking about playing with fire, I am speaking from experience. That’s fire. You’re talking about vehicle insurance and transporting kids. You have to think about that stuff. The board is on the hook. The buck stops with the board. The board is the boss. I don’t think board members really get that when they sign up. I don’t think they really get that. I think they would take their jobs more seriously if they understood the consequences of not doing their jobs. I think that’s a real failure in leadership because they’re too timid about that conversation. Russell: That baptism by fire when I worked with the Micmac nation is the same baptism by fire you’re talking about. In terms of documentation, there are so many things that have to be kept in one place. Does your platform help with that? Does it help to deal with governing documents and creating a space where people can collaborate and have these conversations? That is another common problem. I have my favorite tools I use to work with. I have different clients who like different tools, some of which I’m not crazy about. It’s about getting things done, so I have learned to use a number of different things. That’s not always conducive to good communication and keeping things working. Talk about if you could address the importance of organizing all of your compliance documents and processes. Jeb: That is what Boardable does. Thanks for the pitch there. The problem that we see with a lot of boards is that nothing is one place. When a new board member rolls on, they’re forwarding them emails. The mess grows and expands. Having all documents, everything that you’re doing in one place so that no matter what, you’ve got it right here on the app. You have your directory, your documents. You can call someone from here. You have your groups, agendas, minutes, and voting, everything you need in one place, your notifications, tasks, follow-up items. And you integrate with all those other tools. That is the key here. You have to integrate with Google Docs and Dropbox and Microsoft and calendars and emails because people won’t stop using those tools. They shouldn’t. They work. We have to meet them where they are. A lot of what we focus on is accepting the board experience as it is and coming alongside and bringing value and augmenting what they’re doing. Hugh: What you don’t know is the guy who comes knocking at the door from the IRS was Russell. He knows about compliance. He wants to see your corporate record book. I find many, if any, executives who understand what the function of the record book is and what should be in there. Is that part of your program as well? Jeb: Yes, it automatically organizes all those documents into folders. You can lock and control them depending on committee access. All those meetings are automatically archived historically. Who was in attendance? Who wasn’t? You create a report that shows everything that happened. When the IRS does knock at the door, you can show them exactly what you did, how you voted. There is the agenda from that meeting, whatever you need to show them. Fortunately, I have not been audited yet. Hopefully that doesn’t happen here soon. But when Russell does knock at my door, I’m confident at least with the organizations I’m involved with and our customers they’ll be ready. Hugh: You’re audit-ready. Jeb: I hope so. I’ll ask my CFO and see if he has the answers. Hugh: Russell is on a good track here with compliance. I do think most are blind to this. That’s why you got us on here. This sounds like valuable stuff, doesn’t it, Russ? Russell: It is. As far as having processes, a lot of the problems revolve around people using a different language in addition the tools they think differently. There are certain things that have to be in place. if you can create a way where people have that common understanding and can access stuff. Brendan Burchard talks about creating different products, courses, approaching consulting, and he talks about tools. One of the things he says is if it’s not easy to access, understand, and use, people aren’t going to bother with it. Meetings get complicated. A tool like that, Hugh’s publication on conducting a successful meeting, because it really breaks things down and makes it manageable. Jeb: Absolutely. If you can’t use the tool, if you can’t log in, if it’s frustrating or confusing, give it 10, 15, maybe 30 seconds, and at that point, you are going back to what you know. This is where things get hard. The organization often caters to the board. They want the board to be taken care of. If the board says this isn’t working for me, whatever it is, they will print out the packet. They will do whatever they need to do to help the board. It’s good and bad. It’s good to take care of your board. The board needs that information. I think it’s also good sometimes that organization needs to push the board more than they do. Too often, they cater and capitulate to the board instead of pushing the board to do best practices in terms of how they want to communicate. They have to give them tools that are easy to use. That is super critical. Hugh: Jeb, let’s take a case study. Is that okay? A real, live situation. I am the president of the board, the board chair, of the Lynchburg Symphony. We have 24 board members. A third rotate each year. It’s a three-year gig. We have a moving and family situation, so we have 10 new members coming in. A week and a half from now, we are doing our strategy, some people would call it a retreat, but we are going to charge. We are not retreating. It’s a work session, which is different from a board meeting. We have a planning session. I have highly skilled board members that are committee chairs of development, finance, events, and concert programs. We are mapping the future. Our proprietary strategy is called a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? it’s the basic rubric of a strategic plan, but more nonprofit-friendly. We are doing our planning session. I already met with all the chairs and the new conductor. We are starting a new era with a new conductor. I am succeeding a president who put a lot of systems in place. I am inheriting a sound board and a sound organization, financially and structurally, and we are moving it up. What do you think is the most important things that I should do with incoming board members as we strategize on our work and integrating our work together as we plan for the next five years, and specifically the next year? Jeb: I think that the onboarding piece is critical. We talked about that earlier. Making sure they know what is expected of them and what their role is. I think that’s important. Assigning them a board mentor is important as well if that is something you can do. That can give them navigational help on a peer level. The third thing is getting them a committee assignment as soon as possible. They need to feel like they have a role on the board. The board meeting, they will feel they are observers for a while. They may ask some questions, but they may not feel they have a really defined role. That onboarding, setting roles and responsibilities, getting them a mentor, getting them on a committee are three initial things you can do that will increase their engagement and make them feel like they are a part of something. That is the initial phase. Hugh: Russell, I did all of those. Jeb: Good job! Russell: Yes, you did. Building a board book. When people go through our leadership symposium, it’s a board book. It lays out a big-picture overview of some things you do. He has other materials he’s built that could actually take leaders through a reflective process. Having what we call a board book has the information that people need. Setting up some training around that and having them go through that, as well as having a mentor, is great. As you are bringing somebody on board, you want to find out what lights their fire. What is something they just can’t wait to get out of bed to do? They are going to have some ownership around that. They will have ideas around that. Good leaders build better leaders. You set the parameters for success, and you turn them loose and let them run with it. Jeb: That’s a great point. Tapping into what they’re passionate about is critical. That is often a conversation before they join the board, but it can be an ongoing conversation of what is the why. What is the why here? There has to be some alignment between their why and the organization’s why. If that is missing, they’re not going to be engaged. There will be misalignment. That leads to dysfunction, which can be challenging. Hugh: I like that word, “dysfunction.” Russell: Especially if they are effective and highly visible, everyone accepts Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is running after them to get them on their board of directors. That’s fine if they have the bandwidth to do it. What I have seen on occasion is they are not clear with what they want to do or accomplish. They’re not sure what they want from the board members. Typically, they find people who they love and adore, who they’re good friends with, who support them. They don’t always take that inventory of exactly what they need, and can’t always define that commitment. What are some of the things you have seen? How have you been able to address those types of issues? Jeb: In terms of aligning their commitment? Russell: And crafting a set of expectations. Jeb: To be honest, I haven’t done that as much as I should have. The previous time, I was chairing two nonprofits I co-founded, and they were like start-ups. It was a bootstraps situation, where the founders became the board members. We added from there. With the board I am rejuvenating right now, we are in triage mode. We are trying to get up and running. With the larger board I serve on, the United Way board, they are much more intentional about this experience. It’s been good to watch from that perspective. I have a financial commitment to the board I’m making, which is important. A lot of boards have that. The more mature and functional board, which this one certainly is, they know what they’re doing, they’re intentional. They have a full-time administrator working with the board. There are clear commitments. I sign things every year. They talk about it a lot. They have one-on-one sessions with me every year to talk about my giving, where I’m going with my life. How is United Way going to be a part of that? I have seen that be effective. I see it more with my customers, but I am speaking from my own experience. I have been more on the start-up side of boards. When a board is starting up, the start-up phase is different. You have the start-up, the growth, and the cruise. The cruise control one is where United Way is. It’s healthy, big, knows what it’s doing. Different dynamics, different needs. It changes as the board changes. Russell: A lot of tools we put together here at SynerVision address organizations at different stages. What I love about the model Hugh has created is it’s perfect for somebody who is starting. If you can structure everything right, which isn’t always the case, you’re going to have fewer problems later. Hugh: Thank you for highlighting that. What I see, Jeb, is we do the people part of this. What’s missing is all the stuff you highlighted. The plethora of emails that is a cancer. I remember when we didn’t have email, when we didn’t have the Internet, we didn’t have cell phones or texting. We keep adding things, but we never take anything away. People are just bombarded. Sometimes they don’t read anything. You’ve covered so many important topics here. Russell, you never saw this happen, but I have seen this happen. Board members come unprepared to a meeting. Russell: That happens? Jeb: I’ve never seen that happen. Russell: When did that start? Jeb: Shocking. Hugh: They’re busy people. They leave a board meeting and get sucked into the vortex of life. The next thing they know, there is another meeting coming up at 6:00. What was I supposed to do? It’s the engagement piece that keeps people tuned in between meetings. One of my missions in meetings is we teach people that we don’t work at meetings, we work in between meetings. We check in. it’s an accountability system. A planning session is different. A regular board meeting, we report on what we’ve done, and we define what we’re going to do and look for those points of collaboration and collision that we want to work on. Speak about those topics. Jeb: You’re totally right. It’s the in-between that is so important. Board members think of their board services as simply the meeting. Here I am, I’m in the meeting. There are some boards where that is truly their role. That goes back to defining roles and responsibilities. If all they are doing is being advisory, or simply sitting there to listen and decide, that is one thing. A healthy board has projects and activities running in between meetings. To do that, there is a lot of management. You have to set that expectation up front of what kind of hours you are committing a month when you join this board. Very few boards have that conversation. They talk about the board meetings. They talk maybe about committees. Talking about the hours you will commit and spend. This is two or three hours a week, we expect you to come in for a meeting, etc. We redesigned the committees at United Way, and it has been a fascinating experience. We are moving more toward work groups. More ad hoc. Is this getting you excited? Hugh: Oh yeah. There is the old adage that committees are a place where good ideas go to die. Jeb: I respect that committees are still the primary vehicle for a lot of organizations and our customers. I think there are healthy committees. The idea of being more ad hoc subject matter experts that come together as needed around a problem to solve that problem. Those are being formed as needed. During board meetings, between board meetings. They are reporting back. You have a platform, whether it’s Boardable or something else, where they are able to collaborate, share content documents. That creates visibility to others in the organization so that work is not entirely happening in a silo. That makes the work more effective. It multiplies that work. That move is a good one. It gives people something to do. I hate sitting in a committee meeting and feeling like I have nothing to do with what’s being talked about. I want to feel like I have some skin in the game. Hugh: Absolutely. Russell, this is music to our ears, isn’t it? Russell: This is great stuff. Solution sessions are great because you got to get in there, got to get it done. You don’t have time to goof around. Having people with the right information. Understanding the roles and how everybody fits is communication. That is where things slip through the cracks, when somebody says, “I thought you were going to take care of that.” “Didn’t we agree you would?” You end up in this back and forth. You definitely want to stay out of that. You want to stay out of finger-pointing as well. What you’re doing is too important. Finger-pointing solves no problems. It keeps you away from course-correcting. Hugh: I love it. My meetings always end with an action plan. Who is going to do it? What is the action? To do what? Who is the champion? What is the deadline? It ends up with a communication board. What is the specific message somebody that is not here needs to know? Who was going to tell them? We don’t think of those things. We sit around and talk about things to do. Everyone assumes the facilitator will do them. Man, it’s been a lot of very helpful content here. What are board ambassadors? I want to ask you two questions. What are board ambassadors? There are groups, governance and financial oversight, which is your board of directors. The symphony has an advisory council. They are just what you said. We ask their advice. And we have advisors at large, people we call from time to time to give us advice. Those are the three sets of people we have connected. But the board of directors is fitting in to the role you are talking about, the group that is responsible for this organization. Are there other entities, besides committees or work groups or project teams, you find are helpful? Jeb: You have YP boards. They are good to create a feeder system for the main board. Young professional boards. They are that group of younger people in their career, in their 20s often, who are rising in their careers. We see that happening more and more with nonprofits. They have YP boards. They can pick from their boards as you see leadership emerge. I like that system. You see who shows up. You see who gets things done. That also gets that age diversity issue, which I think is a real problem with boards. A lot of boards struggle to get those younger board members. It’s two things. The younger board members don’t have awareness around the opportunity, and I think they are intimidated by it as well. The YP board is a good piece for that. Board ambassadors. That could be more on the emeritus side. Folks who have been on the board for a while, who are no longer in an active role but are still really important connectors in the community, and you want to keep them involved. That is one way to think about it. Perhaps you have a different thought on that term. I’m curious what you’re thinking. Hugh: I love that. That’s a vacuum in my thinking. We do see a lot of old white guys. We see way too much of that. I have changed the symphony board so far. The 11 days I’m in, it’s already a different board. I had a good board to build on, so I’m not saying it was bad before. We are adding some of those elements of diversity. Russell, we have about three minutes for a short question before we go into our sponsor message and give Jeb his last word. Russell: We’re talking about bringing youth in. I like the idea of what I call reverse mentoring, where there is this knowledge exchange between generations. I went to a United Veterans Committee Colorado meeting this morning. Lots of gray hair. Yes, the brown guys get gray hair, too. This whole notion of diversity, I had a marvelous week last week helping Carol Carter with GlobalMinded at Be the Solution conference here in Denver. The whole event was about diversity and inclusion. If people don’t feel like they are a part of something, they won’t participate. That is a serious topic. We have covered that. It might be time for us to do another diversity and inclusion panel, Hugh. That is very important. I am curious as to, and you have been on several boards, what has the composition of your board looked like? What did you need to do to help that along, or make any adjustments to make sure you had the bandwidth of ideas and energy? Jeb: Each board has been unique in this aspect. The Speakeasy was founded by a bunch of white guys. We had to be intentional about diversifying the member base. People who were members of the co-working space, along with the board. Not in a check the box way, but in a legitimate, how do we get real perspectives into this? How do we get women into this? I am proud of where the board is now. It’s had three female executive directors in a row. It’s had a diverse board consistently. In terms of the board I’m working with now, it’s diverse as well. There is a lot of opportunity to improve here. It’s tricky because I think that there aren’t natural pathways for people in different demographics to explore board service. I think this is a real challenge, especially in certain populations in Indianapolis. There is no awareness around it whatsoever. We have a three-phase road map: board management, which is the logistical side of it; board engagement, which gets into all the things we talked about in terms of nudging behavior to people saying what they said they will do; and board talent, really trying to give a tool to boards to get that talent, a matrix to see what diversity they have now, what skills they have now. And a marketplace for them to connect with people. We market that marketplace to populations that don’t currently think of board service. That is where we are taking the product. This speaks to my desire to create more opportunity for others. I feel like this system is rigged. There is an opportunity to use technology and marketing and content to bring others into it. A board role can be transformative in the life of a person. It can broaden their network and connections. It can open doors that wouldn’t have been opened. It can lead to careers and opportunities that were not available to them before that role. To bring more of those roles to people of different backgrounds, not just of my background, but all kinds of backgrounds. I am a privileged person. I grew up with parents who volunteered with nonprofits. This is the culture I came from. It’s what I know. To give this experience to others is where we see the company going. Hugh: Thank you on behalf of nonprofits for doing this. This work is so important. We will be having more conversations. Russell, I can smell some cross-support here, maybe more conversations about our alignment. We have things and you have things that would be better together. *Sponsored by Wordsprint* Jeb, give us the top traits of an effective board member. What thought do you want to leave us with? Then Russell will close us out. Jeb: The seven things I discussed earlier: 1) A board member is prepared for meetings. 2) They are showing up. 3) They are following through. 4) They’re volunteering in the organization. 5) They’re advocating on behalf of the organization. That ambassador piece. 6) They’re helping with fundraising. 7) They’re donating, writing a check themselves. Those are the seven dimensions that we look at to measure in our product. What was the other question? Hugh: What tip do you have for people? Jeb: I think my #1 tip to board leaders is if you are not comfortable having hard conversations, whether it’s the difficult or crucial conversations, take some time to do some training. Learn how to have those conversations in a way that is productive. I believe the difference between a good and a great organization is a lot of hard conversations. That skillset is important to build as a leader. Russell: Jeb Banner, it’s been a remarkable hour. Thank you so much for coming to share your wisdom with us. 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Madison Avenue, Wally’s Gas Station, and a Box of Cereal with Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Ph. D., D. D. Transforming our world through Radical Loving and Awesome HolinessRABBI DR. WAYNE DOSICK, Ph.D., D.D. is the founder and spiritual guide of The Elijah Minyan — bringing Spiritual Judaism and Jewish Renewal to San Diego. Rabbi Dosick is a dynamic, inspiring, and loving educator, writer, spiritual guide and healer, who teaches and counsels about faith and spirit, ethical values, life tansformations, and evolving human consciousness. He is well-known for quality scholarship and sacred spirit, his reading of traditional texts for their sense of prophetic social justice, his abiding commitment to utmost dignity and decency for every human being, and his lifetime of guiding people to a deep, personal, intimate relationship with the Divine. He has been described as a “rational intellect with the soul of a mystic,” and he has been called “one of the most gifted teachers of our generation, who understands the mindset, needs, and yearnings of people, and responds to this intellectual and inner searching in peerless fashion. ”Recently, he has been called, “a spiritual master of our time.” More about Rabbi Wayne Dosick at https://elijahminyan.com/rabbi-wayne Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sponsorship for Non Profits - How collaboration, creativity, and relationships can lead to YES with Charmaine Hammond Charmaine Hammond has worked with hundreds of nonprofit organizations (as a facilitator, speaker, and trainer), she was an executive director of a family crisis society, has her own charity, and now in her business Raise a Dream she helps nonprofits learn how collaboration and sponsorship revenue can help them thrive, and make a bigger impact in the world. Like you, we're on a mission to make a big impact in the world. We’ve learned that through the power of collective influence, nonprofits are able to deepen their impact on the world. Through training, collaboration with partners, and services focused on sustainability, we help you reshape the way you operate your organization. Questions Addressed in this Interview: 1) What is sponsorship and how can it help nonprofits? 2) What mistakes are nonprofits making and what could they do instead to stand out, be remembered, and get more yeses? 3) Can you share some case studies of how nonprofits have collaborated or/and secured sponsorship? 4) You said you have a 7 step model to help nonprofits, can you share what that is? For more information on Raise a Dream go here http://www.raiseadream.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Will College Ever Be Free??? Interview with Chris Bryant Christopher Bryant is the Vice President of Institutional Advancement at Central Virginia Community College in Lynchburg, Virginia. He oversees all fundraising and philanthropy, marketing, public relations, and scholarship management. Also, in this role, Chris is the Executive Director of the CVCC Education Foundation. Mr. Bryant began his career as a District Executive for the Blue Ridge Mountains Council in 1999. After working ten years professionally with the BSA, he left the program as a District Director to expand his career in philanthropy and marketing. Chris then served in the development offices of Presbyterian Homes & Family Services (now HumanKind) in Lynchburg, Capital Caring (Hospice) in Falls Church, and Goodwin House (Senior Living Community) in Alexandria. Chris has served five nonprofits professionally, and as a board member and volunteer with United Way, National D-Day Memorial, National Powwow, Native American Jump Start, Kiwanis Club of Lynchburg, Churches for Urban Ministry, Capital District Kiwanis, Blue Ridge Mountains Council – BSA, Boy Scouts of America (nationally), Central Virginia Agency for Nonprofit Excellence, Lynchburg Covenant Fellowship, and Rotary Club of Bailey’s Crossroads.] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pipp I Pattonis the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice. Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé. Pip says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production." More about Pip HERE Email Pip HERE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sharing Your Story can Change the World:  How to tell your np story that will open pocketbooksInterview with Erin Loman Jeck Erin Loman Jeck is CEO of Transformational Speakers Agency, Executive Speaking Coach, TEDx Speaking Coach, and the Creator of Speakers Success Summit. This highly sought after business coach, transitioned to opening her own Speakers Agency and she is the leading authority on assisting thriving purpose-driven entrepreneurs in how to monetize their message, make an impact, influence change, and inspire action in others. Erin’s approach to speaking is unique and powerful, she utilizes the Psychology of Connection to illustrate how you can unlock any audience’s trust and rapport, which leaves them feeling better about themselves and are challenged to adopt your new idea or perspective. Leaders seek her out to learn how to be more powerful in their influence, especially in the C-Suite of organizations. If you are looking for a proven professional who is an impactful and influential trainer to lead your team, organization, executives to learn her techniques- look no further. Erin’s clients rave about the powerful impact she has made on them and her ability to help then find the subtle nuances that can take your influence and speaking to the next level. Audiences have left feeling refreshed, energized and eager to get started with their newfound strategies in their compelling communication. I teach NP leaders how to communicate the needs and the stories of the success in a way that is compelling and has donors opening their wallets and giving more. I teach them how to speak in the language of the donors so they really get conversions from their events, conversations, and publicity. I have sat on 5 NP boards over the past 10 years, and speak business and NP, I have been a translator many times at the board table, because I have worked as a social worker and board member- I understand both sides. Most of the time they are saying the same things, but using different language, so they think the other side doesn’t understand what they are talking about.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Termites Destroying Your Board? Problem:  Non-Profit Boards are filled with well-meaning volunteer leaders, whose various reasons for joining are unfortunately, more competing and less collaborative than everyone may realize. Far too many Boards fail to invest in the simple, yet proven and powerful strategies that the most successful and thriving Non-Profit Boards live by every day. Therefore, meetings are dysfunctional, true consensus decisions are almost impossible to achieve, volunteerism and Board involvement declines and staying focused on the most important mission and results of the Non-Profit becomes exceedingly difficult and exhausting. Good News:  It doesn’t have to be this way. There are simple, proven powerful strategies, when used effectively and consistently, which eradicate much of the dysfunction, build trust amongst the Board Leaders and enable Leaders to make better decisions, save time and achieve better results, with less stress and drama. Question 1: Steven, as a change management consultant, and after 20 years of serving on Boards and helping Non-Profit Boards become more effective, what do you see as the overarching challenge when Board Leaders are struggling? Fail to Live in Community with Authenticity, Transparency, Humility and Collaboration Definition of Success for the Organization is Not Crystal Clear The Board Leaders Do Not Adequately Understand the “Why” Behind Each Board Leader’s Reason for Joining and Staying Involved Question 2: With the long list of challenges that any Board Leadership can struggle with, are there patterns or distinctions that stand out for you? Most are People Issues—Communication and Interpersonal Relations, especially when the Board Chair or President lacks adequate leadership skills to address these people issues Culturally, not just in the US, we suffer far too much Political Correctness and our cultural norm of avoiding conflict and difficult conversations makes it all the harder for people to wiggle their spinal cords and practice Managerial Courage Organizationally, meetings are run poorly, authority and decision making is not clear, and standards in a variety of ways are simply lacking or non-existent Question 3: What are some examples of a successful use of Standards in Board Leadership? Definition of Success for Organization and Board Leadership Behavior Standards are Clear and Consequences for Failing to Adhere to Them are Real and Crystal Clear—No Triangulation, Carry Your Weight, Humility, Managerial Courage, Failing Forward, Mission First When Dealing with Me—Strengths; Behavioral Styles Question 4: Thinking of the Cultural Challenges you mentioned earlier, what are some proven strategies that you have seen work within Board Leadership and what improvements are made because of them? Mad, Glad, Sad/Stop, Start, Continue If You Could Change Any One Thing Immediately About __________________, With No Limit on Resources, What Would You Change? Understanding Behavioral Styles  (DiSC, Platinum Rule, True Colors, Myers-Briggs, etc.) Everyone understands what each other’s greatest needs are and what drives their thinking and thus their behaviors Difficult Conversations are far more easily surfaced because everyone understands the importance of honoring others’ behavioral style Question 5: What are some of your best strategies for Board Leaders running better meetings and making better decisions? Understanding Strengths  (Gallup and Strengthsscope) Meetings—Discovery, Distribution and Decisions; AHA Sheet; 2 Commitments Saying No—Standing up and “Saying No” to things that we don’t need to be doing right now, is oftentimes even more powerful than “Saying Yes” to doing the right things Urgency—What happens if we do nothing and keep the status quo?  What are the benefits or quick wins when we address this issue and no longer settle for status quo? Finding, Harvesting and Celebrating Quick Wins Along with Establishing and Fully Understanding the URGENCY of the Need for Change is the Most Powerful First Step that Board Leadership Must Identify, Communicate and Keep Communicating THE CHALLENGE? Everyone is volunteering/investing their time, energy and contributions for the Mission of the organization. Building trust, getting everyone on the same page with crystal clear understanding, and living and leading based upon behavior standards, behavioral styles and strengths, takes work and serious commitment to the long-term success of Board Leadership. Sadly, far too often, Board Leaders quit mid-stream, after only implementing a few of these proven building blocks. Tragically, the cancer of “see I told you nothing would change” rears its ugly head far too often, resulting in Board Leader turnover, disengagement and festering dysfunction. However, when Board Leaders embrace these strategies with humility and a spirit of servant leadership, and implement and practice them consistently, the changes, improvements and results are often transformational for the organization and everyone involved. Keep Our Why’s, Definition of Success, Behavior Standards and the URGENCY of Change at the forefront of everything we do! For our people, honor behavioral styles and strengths, remember “When Dealing with Me”  And in daily practice, maintain, Asking Better Questions (Stop, Start, Continue); Running Better Meetings; Allowing “Failing Forward”; and, Committing to Make Better Consensus Decisions and Owning Our Decisions   Steven Rowell is a Change Management Consultant, serial entrepreneur and executive coach who is obsessed with leadership effectiveness that drives business growth and profitability, leads organizational change and creates a company culture of legendary service. Steven’s unique combination of leadership experiences with The Walt Disney World Co., Compass Group and building his own companies translates to powerful and practical consulting, training and speaking services for his clients just like you. Steven’s HCAHPS Patient Satisfaction program is now in use by more than 1100 hospitals nationwide. For the past 25 years Steven has worked with contract management, hospitality and service management companies in facilities management, healthcare, home services, theme parks, casinos and resorts. Key areas of expertise include leadership effectiveness, building effective teams, accountability, managerial courage, leading change, conflict resolution, strategic planning, personal effectiveness, and delivering legendary service. Steven has delivered more than 1100 keynote speeches since 1995, andhas facilitated more than 130 multi-day conferences for his Clients. Steven is the author of The Five Minute Secret (2017); Jumpstart Your Creativity (Sept 2013); Success from the Inside Out (2010-295,000 copies sold); Connections™ Orientation in Action for Real Results and Retention(Abundance Publishing, Fall 2007); and Clean Is Not Enough! : Revolutionizing Environmental Services (October 2004). The Transcript Nonprofit Chat with Stephen Rowell Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. We are doing a live recording as we do on Tuesday nights for the Nonprofit Chat. We have an energy-filled evening for you. We are going to talk until we’re done, which is usually an hour or less. But the man on this call tonight is Stephen Rowell. Russell Dennis is back with me as co-host, and we will interview Stephen. He and I have been acquainted through a mutual friend, and we have a lot of synergies in what we believe in and what we do and our experience. Stephen, tell us about this experience with Mickey Mouse and that part of your history, and take it forward and tell us what you do today. Stephen Rowell: Sure, thank you so much for having me. First thing, I thought about the title for today’s talk to be “Mickey Mouse and the Boardroom” or “What would be different if Disney ran your board?” sort of like the book What if Disney Ran Your Hospital. Basically, I spent almost eight years at Walt Disney World in Orlando. I spent five years working in sales, at Disney University, the training division, human resources, and really fell in love with organizational development. I ended my career in the organizational development group, which ran Disney University and Disney Institute. I come from an operations background; I am a serial entrepreneur. But what is really exciting about tonight is- My father was an assistant dean of a very nice university in Texas, and my mother was a schoolteacher, believe it or not. They were so civically minded my whole life. I grew up as the norm with the notion that Mom and Dad were always gone in the evenings at board meetings and volunteering and whatnot. I think that is where it all started for me. When I left Disney, I had a few more entrepreneurial successes and worked in corporate life. Over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been drawn to organizations in South Africa, three of them specifically. They all do different things. One is sustainable support for an entire village. The others are helping orphans in South Africa. I really come tonight with not only a spirit for nonprofits, but also as a change management consultant, what I am also doing is not only serving on boards myself and participating in what we would call trainwreck meetings and seeing some of the most dysfunctional groups, but I have also been privileged, both in terms of small nonprofits and huge big-name organizations, to see what works, and that is what I am excited to share. It’s not about me, but what I have seen that really works around the country. Hugh: Russell and I are what we call in the SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3, WayFinders. We are coming full circle from the consultant answer-man to the WayFinder, who is a partner who asks questions to empower and enable people. Part of our methodology is running power-packed meetings. As a conductor, you never saw a conductor use an agenda for a rehearsal. We do away with words like “agenda” and focus on deliverables. You and I are going to have some lively conversation. We have moved away from the consultant model. I went through a phase where I decided a consultant would be an insultant, and then I moved to resultant. But really, in my persona, it’s about the integration of strategy and performance. You spent some really good years with Disney. Was that in California or Florida? Stephen: It was in Florida, and then I ended up in the Northeast. Hugh: Uh huh. And you’re in Pennsylvania now? Stephen: Yes. I was going to come here for three years, do grad school, and leave. Now I have been married 15 years. I have a 13-year-old boy and a Goldendoodle and a Corgi, and the rest is history, as they say. Hugh: Life goes zoom. Anything else you want to say about yourself before we get into some of the hard content? I have interrupted you there. Stephen: No. I am just excited to be here and answer questions and serve in any way I can. Hugh: I took your title verbatim: “Termites Destroying Your Board? How to Exterminate Board Dysfunction Once and for All.” We are talking about getting more done in less time. You are singing my song so to speak. Bigger impact and lasting results. You said you have participated in nonprofit boards for quite a while. Part of the expertise Russ and I have is working with boards and helping them build a culture of high performance. What is your experience? Do you work externally with boards, or have you just sat on boards as a boardperson? Stephen: I have sat on boards, and then as a consultant, I helped a couple of the nonprofits in South Africa, which are both 501(c)3s and American-based as well as South African-based. I helped them from the ground up get crystal clear about their mission, what they were going to focus on, and what they were not going to focus on. That brings up one of the key points for me, which is so often I see people struggle with saying no, and they wonder why their board is sitting there with 17 items on their strategic plan. I was trying to help those two organizations benefit from the beginning. I am excited to share that one of those organizations is now 14 years old and has 25 homes for orphans in South Africa, which is exciting. Hugh: That is very exciting. You said in passing the term “change management consultant.” What does that mean? Stephen: For us, change management consulting is coming alongside senior leaders, organizations, nonprofits, CEOS, C-suite groups, and helping them in a few different ways. One is: What are the best practices to get adoption and people to embrace the change, not be afraid of it, push through their fear, but really how to implement change that is not so painful through the first year of the introduction, and what also sticks and lasts and what really makes it work. We focus on three different parts. There is the larger organization, there is the group component, and there is the individual and the leadership piece. What I would say is where we spend most of our time with nonprofit boards is acknowledging the cultural norms and realities of what they are dealing with. I am talking about what the cultural norm is as it relates to leaders and what they are bringing into their room—call it bias or cultural norm—and then there is organizationally what the organization wants to do, and then there is the people stuff. We really work on the triangle of the organization, the group, and the leader. We try as best we can to get people to start from a place of humility, which is we don’t know what we don’t know. We really try to start from a very humble place. Hugh: The triangle is the organization, the people, and I forgot the other one. Stephen: The culture. Hugh: The culture. Stephen: I will give you an example. What South African colleges and universities consider a graduate degree skilled proficient educator or teacher would barely be equal to an undergraduate American professional in education. Hugh: Oh my goodness. Stephen: There is a great example going globally. South Africans will talk about the challenges they have and why their teachers are struggling. When you bring Americans or Europeans over to help, they are aghast and saying, “Wait. You’re talking about basic issues like Teacher 101.” What we have learned on the global stage, and why we really struggle with the humility piece, is what we have experienced on the African continent—and we are about 15 years through this journey—and not to offend anybody, is this notion of white, American, faith-based organizations landing in Africa and saying, “We have the solution.” Friends of ours have spent the past 11 years starting their own nonprofit organizations in Africa. They have discovered the notion of let’s show up as first-world human beings and ask, “What do you need?” instead of saying, “We have all the solutions.” The organizations in sub-Saharan Africa that are European- or American-based that have done that have found far greater success and far less challenge upfront. Hugh: That is so spot-on with our SynerVision philosophy. What do you think, Russ? Russell Dennis: I think that’s marvelous and that is my philosophy when I go into work. I ask a lot of questions. Something I picked up as an IRS agent is that it’s like Colombo. You ask questions like a second grader until it gets clear. The more you can get people to talk about themselves, they often give themselves their own answer because they talk it through. My whole gig is to pull the genius out of people that is already there. Stephen: Russ, you had a great conversation with my consulting partner Dennis who has dedicated his life to being the drama-free guy. He really focuses a lot of his time on how to ask better questions. Hugh: That is the secret of the coaching of what we do as WayFinders. You mentioned books. Stephen is prolific and has written a lot of books. He has written The Five-Minute Secret: How to Connect with Anyone Anywhere at Any Time. You have Success from the Inside Out. Clean is Not Enough. You’re a good title guy. You have co-authored a book called Jumpstart Your Creativity. Some people are boring with titles, but you got it down. You know how to do an interesting title. I am excited about the synergy. By the way, I named our company SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. There is so much resonance of what you are talking about in what we stand for. Let’s talk about boards. As this change management consultant—I think I heard you say you have had experience with nonprofits for 20 years—I know you helped them be effective at what they are trying to do. What do you see as the overarching challenge when board members and nonprofit leaders are struggling? Stephen: To start off with the big umbrella, it’s just the synthesis of my life journey, this doesn’t mean anything I am about to say is right or wrong, but from a change management perspective and having had two teachers as parents, with a father as a Socratic teacher who asked me questions constantly, from that lens, what I would say is it starts with this: Boards that struggle, no matter how big or small or complex or simple that is, tend to fail in what I call the overarching idea of living community. What I mean by that is within that notion of living in a mission-based, volunteer world to make a bigger impact, the notion of authentic genuine, open communication, having the trust and the managerial courage to deal with tough issues, failing forward, a lot of that safety and trust is absent in the boards that struggle with community. I know you all know this, as you are experts far better than me in how to help boards with the vast experience you have all had, but I think you would agree. You have one meeting with a board, and halfway through or a third of the way through the meeting, you have a sense of what the culture is as it relates to community. One of the most powerful examples, and I am sharing this simply hoping that someone will think about themselves. As you are listening to this, think about who you are and how you show up. But I will share this. There is an organization I have worked with that is 20 years old and just recently a big, big name has joined the organization. Because of the absence of the tools that I am going to talk about tonight, or the effective managerial courage and leadership to drive it, guess what has happened in the last year and a half? The organization has made massive strategic shifts, not because the group wanted to with consensus, but because the billion-dollar family wanted to do it. They have now expanded. As an example, using operational financials, 50% of their entire annual fund is now deployed in new strategies. Why? Because it happens to be near where the homes and the properties are that are owned by the billion-dollar family. All of a sudden, you have this massive dysfunction of one family comes in, and because they are billionaires and so powerful, the cultural norms of avoiding difficult conflicts and conversations. So what has happened is as big-hearted and well-meaning as this family is, it has become dysfunctional, and now you are seeing donations go down. They just did an Indiegogo campaign that was not as successful as the past ones. You have seen volunteerism go down, as rated by the number of days people are volunteering with the organization on a routine basis go down. And they have lost three people who were members of the board, drumroll, who were involved with the board for ten years and have exited in the last four months. One of my passions is helping the original founder of the nonprofit and the chairman/president be skilled enough so that when the train is coming down the track, they can at least have better skills than most. When they see that train coming, they can assess and determine if that train is going to run us over or pick us up and take us somewhere really special. I think that’s the secret. Hugh: I’ll let Russ weigh in here a minute, but in my 31 years of experience, I see very few boards, if any, function up to the expectations of the leader or even to their own expectations. You take really good people who are successful in their lives and put them on a nonprofit board, and you duct tape their mouth and tie their hands, so to speak. The system itself does not promote all the good stuff that you just articulated. The culture is so key. I’d like you to comment on a couple of the methodologies we use at SynerVision. We have people weigh in on the board covenant. What is it they promise to each other? It’s interesting what people come up with. It’s their commitment to each other as peer-to-peer accountability. Too often, the leader feels they have to hold everybody accountable, whether it’s the board chair or the executive director. They think it all revolves around them making things happen. But really, if the culture creates the standards, they are going to enforce them. The other piece we go into is what we call guiding principles. I don’t know this, but experiencing Disney from the outside, it’s really clear that their principles for employees is very clear, how they make decisions. We are the guest. They are always going to help us. Ask somebody sweeping the streets a question, and they can take you there and answer that question. Southwest Airlines is the hospitality company. Companies like that have a very clear set of guiding principles so they know how they are supposed to function. I don’t find either, the covenant or the operating guide of how we are going to function as a team or how we are going to make decisions as a team with your guiding principles. Stephen: Bingo. That last one, how we are going to make decisions and the authority and all that, is gigantic. That is where the failure comes because of the absence of all of this. What I would share with you very quickly is this. The Disney version of that is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. It’s in that order. Van Nam was a consultant that worked with Walt Disney in the 1950’s to figure all of this out before Disneyland opened in 1955 in California. The concept was that safety is first because without safety, you don’t have anything if it’s going to be a theme park. Safety, courtesy, show, we’re all a part of the magic. And the last one is efficiency. You have to get 1,800 guests an hour through the attraction of the Haunted Mansion. Let’s say we had 19 guests in the last hour that were in wheelchairs, so we had to slow down that conveyor belt because the Haunted Mansion is loaded with a conveyor belt. All of a sudden, you look at the numbers in the control center and you see you are not going to make your 1,800 count. The fourth value is efficiency, not the first. So here is the secret. To your point, hourly cast members were raised- I used to teach perditions, the first three days of orientation at Disney University. What I would teach is you can never go out of order: safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. So you could never be rude to guests or hold back people that needed assistance to enter that attraction because you are going to get your number. That hierarchy of thinking is exactly what you are talking about. Sixteen-year-old kids who sit at home and never say anything to Mom and Dad at the dinner table, all of a sudden, if that same kid is now at Disneyworld and he understands safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, then we sell happiness is what we train all the new hires to understand. Backstage, we sell happiness. The way we do that is we create magic. The standard, which is the covenant, as an example using the covenant language, one of the standards is consistently seek out guest contact. Those words were all very definitive and intentional. Consistently (not just when you want to) seek out (don’t just let the guest walk over you, you seek them out, make eye contact) guest contact. To wrap all of that up, what I would share with you—and this has carried over into my consulting and my own life as a parent and husband—I have thought about what are those standards I want to live by and behaviors I want to commit to. Here is how powerful this is. You have this 16-year-old who sits at home and never looks up from their phone, but you put them in the culture at Disneyworld, and what happens? They see a father in the Magic Kingdom walking with an Epcot Center guidebook, and the same kid walks up and goes, “Oh hi, are you headed over to Epcot Center later this evening to see Illuminations, the fireworks show?” They say, “Yes, how did you know?” Well, that’s the secret, the magic. This guest doesn’t realize that this kid has been taught that if you are in the Magic Kingdom in front of the castle and you see a father or mother with an Epcot Center guidebook, that is an opportunity for magic. So what the kid says is, “Would you like to know the secret best place to go inside the world showcase to see the fireworks?” “Sure, that’d be great.” What happens then to wrap all of that up—I still get goosebumps telling you this—you can take the person out of Disney, but you can’t take the Disney out of the person—but what I would share with you is absolutely part of the secret of Disney is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, we sell happiness, we create magic, and then there is the standard of consistently seek out guest contact. Here is the big one. We also then teach the why to the cast member to understand why you’re doing this. Do you know what magic is? The last piece for me on this on the Disney benchmark is then showing them ways they can make magic. So you see a family walking through the park with a camera. You will see teenage cast members run up to that family and say, “Sir, can I take that picture for you so you can be in it?” Well, why is that such a treasured thing to do working at Disneyworld? Because, when you are a new hire, we would tell story after story that the Christmas card is going to be the picture of the family, and in the old days, this will date me, but it used to be that American families spent 36 rolls of film in one trip at Disneyworld. Hugh: Oh my goodness. Stephen: They would get home, and the average for most families is there would be three pictures of the entire family in the 36 rolls of film. To wrap all this up, what we do is teach that the holiday card is going to be that picture of the whole family at Disneyworld. The one that is huge today is when you go to a funeral, and Grandpa has passed away, the tradition in America at least is you go to the funeral and what do they have? Pictures up on an easel. At the time, we had 81,000 guest letters of people writing in saying, “Four months after we were at Disneyworld, my grandfather died. I want you to know the picture at the memorial service was the picture in front of Splash Mountain. I wanted to say thank you to the kid Skip who took that picture.” The magic was then to go back as a company and find Skip and say, “You made magic.” Hugh: That’s lovely. What if we had that same mindset? We use the word “nonprofit” because we gotta make profit, and we start dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. But what if we were able to, and we settle for less than excellence, less than efficient, less than safety. What gift do you have to inspire board members? I think it’s up to the board members to step up and say I want to do better. Stephen: Great question. One of the ways that I think you can really help these volunteer board members as well as leaders, whether it is a member of a committee or the chairman, is to make it personal. Here is what I mean. 1,100 hospitals have licensed my Patient Satisfaction Program, and one of the things that both Quint Stuter and the Stuter Group and myself really made famous in hospitals is behavior standards. One of the things I would give you as an example is imagine your covenants. Go back to what you said, Hugh. Imagine if you had these covenants for these board members you were speaking to. We are talking about how to maintain excellence and inspire them to that. What if the standard was no triangulation? If the banker is upset with the CPA who is upset with the multi-millionaire retired business owner who is upset with the schoolteacher, and you have all the baggage and crap that goes with those labels in our society, no, no, no. It doesn’t matter who you are. The issue is no triangulation. What does that mean? If you have an issue with anybody, you go to them. You don’t run to me. Or the chairman says, “If you do have an issue, come to me and check in. That’s fine. I can help you navigate this.” That is where your WayFinding is so brilliant in terms of what you are teaching because you can help them navigate a constructive conversation. That is one. Another is take 100% responsibility for everything you do and say. Take 100% responsibility. That is a success principle that Jack Canfield has really focused on. Another one is keep your agreements. Hugh: Oh my. Stephen: What is really neat is if you think about language, so be humble at all times. Remember we don’t know what we don’t know, the humility piece. Managerial courage is caring enough about the other person to say something, to not cower away. Embracing failing forward. The big one that is always so cliché is mission first. What does that mean? That is what I would do. If you don’t care about triangulation, then you won’t achieve excellence. If you don’t care about taking 100% responsibility… It could be as simple as the person in the role of secretary is supposed to have the notes at the meeting sent out by the next morning because we are all busy people. But everybody talks for years now that the secretary gets them out the Thursday after the week after the week after the meeting is over. Now what I have opened up, Hugh, is what do you do then when those types of behaviors fester, which is against the standard of excellence? That is where I think boards fail and struggle in the moments of difficulty and failure. But you have to start with the standards. You have to have the language. You have to start somewhere. You have to wiggle your spinal cord. Hugh: Yeah, we are in the same place. A lot of it the leader lets happen. We think it’s going to go away. I have an e-book out on Amazon called Creating Healthy Teams. It’s all about this intervention piece of managing conflict. Russ, in your work with the Indian reservation and some of the charities, what do you tag here in the brilliant stuff he is giving us tonight? Russell: This is all really excellent stuff. He is preaching to the choir here. I know in my case, I have worked some insane hours. You get a few drivers that are dedicated, and they don’t take care of themselves. They burn out as a result. You have to have an open communication where you can have those tough conversations with the board or course-correct. When something is not going well with a project, folks don’t want to talk about it because they want to look “good” for the funding sources. It’s best that if you have some sort of problem, you have to be transparent and talk about it as quick as you can. Even if it’s just discomfort, you need to go to your leader and express that instead of sweeping it under the rug. A lot of this is having those conversations. That is a culture piece. If you don’t have that culture in place where you can do that, you will have some difficulties. Also what you were talking about is what I would call the solid foundation, which is step one of the four steps of building a high-performance nonprofit. That is the process I will work with people in corporations through that I am still fine-tuning. Building that foundation is looking at what you have and what you need and being able to establish that communication, culture, and ground rules. It’s easier when you start. But you are probably used to going in and finding stuff in every state of operation, being a change management consultant. It’s tricky, and it’s a lot of fun when you ask a lot of questions and you generally bring people to a place where they figure out they don’t know what they don’t know. Nobody likes to be told there is something wrong with them. But I ask enough questions that people after a while are dropping these gems on themselves. Once they come to that point, you can continue that conversation and move forward. But it’s tough to get there sometimes. There is a lot of conflict. When you walk into some situations, you are going to find a massive amount of conflict because things have gone the way they have gone. How do you start off when you walk into these situations where you have some strong personalities and a lot bubbling under the surface because you have let this strong personality dominate? Stephen: There are a couple things. There is a soft approach. It’s all about winning the war, not the battle, right? We all know that. One principle that guides us is people don’t argue with their own data. The magic of what you all are teaching with asking the better questions is you are helping people realize that when they make it their own and identify it, they solve their own problems, as we talked about earlier. I do behavioral styles training. For years, I have been using Tony Alexander’s Platinum Rule. There are four quadrants. It’s a simpler, cleaner version of Myers Briggs. The concept is I start with understanding: Did you know there are four statistically proven, research-based styles? Did you know those four styles each have a deep driving need, a way they see the world and what they value in that world, and the one thing that is the risk or the weakness? The real principle for me there is teaching people any strength taken too far can become a weakness. The overuse of a strength, as this group Strength Scope, which is a brilliant group, they are taking what Gallop did with Strengths Finder- The concept is that the overuse of a strength is the overuse of a skill. That is the soft approach. If I were to leave this fine earth tomorrow, what I am about to say is the tool I hope people would embrace. There is a very simple one, and there is a complex one that has a process that is not that complex. All these tools are in the book Success from the Inside Out, which I’d like to offer your group access to the PDF version as a way to give back. It was written as an action guide format. There is a chapter called “What Makes the Disney Difference?” There is a chapter talking about behavioral standards. And there is this chapter that I am talking about here. Very quickly, this is the concept. This is the single most powerful exercise I have ever done. If I need to level an organization, or if a CEO hires me and says, “I need to reach into the belly of this beast and wake my executives up,” this is what we do. You get people together, get an outside facilitator, and collect feedback in writing, not public discussion, but individually on pieces of paper, and what they are doing is opening up their head and heart and answering the questions: What are you mad about? What are you sad about? What are you glad about? Working here as part of this board. When you think about coming here every month, with the way this board works, what are you mad about? Or what are you mad about with the way the chairman interacts with us? Or what are you mad about, sad about, or glad about? You make them think about those things. What you do is have them all write it down on a piece of paper. The outside person collects all those pieces of paper, types it all up, and looks at the trends. The concept is no one else sees the handwriting of the participants. It’s anonymous. Mad, glad, and sad is only the emotional side, but it’s the way to start. It’s what opens the door. Here is where the $150,000 of free consulting comes in. When you ask the people these questions, “We can identify the things that frustrate us, but now let’s talk about solutions.” You have them take out another piece of paper, and write down when you think about the chairman of the board or the committee leaders or all of us as a group collectively, what do we as mature, grown adult members of this board need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? The brain science magic on this is when you ask a human being who has now emotively unloaded and are feeling good about getting that off their chest… By the way, about 10% of the data you gather from the sad/mad/glad will be surprises to the chairman. If they are really an ostrich with their head buried in the sand, 25% of the data will be a surprise to them. They will say, “I didn’t know that they were that upset.” We have only been talking about that every single meeting when we wait until you leave and get in your car and then complain about it behind your back. Russell: Break room, yes. Stephen: Stop/start/continue is where you transform the organization, to answer your question, Russ. If you could simply get organizations, even if it was just the C-suite group, the top senior leaders, to simply sit twice a year and go, “What do you and I start doing, stop doing, and continue doing to make this a better place?” If you want to go and really transform the nonprofit organization, go ask your volunteers, “What do the leaders of this nonprofit need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? They are not going to see your handwriting. They are not going to see your name. Just tell us.” When that data comes pouring in and you look at it, what I do is type it up into PowerPoint slides. You can see that 18/34 said, “We don’t start meetings on time.” 27/34 people said, “There is no accountability here, and there are three people who have so much favoritism and nepotism that they get away with murder.” Okay. Now you have people surfacing a difficult issue. Just like anything, as you talked about with process, you need a safety net. You don’t want people to get hurt and stir up and trigger events. There is a best practice on how to do it. Here is where I am going with this. Anybody listening, if you could do this in your marriage, what do I need to stop doing, start doing, or continue doing to be a better husband? What do I need to stop doing or start doing this summer to be a better father to my 13-year-old boy who is really thriving and doing exceptionally well with tae-kwon-do? How can I better support him? I need to start making more time to go to tae-kwon-do practices with him. I need to start more consistently practicing with him at home. Great example. The other day, I bought a 70-pound body bag to hang from the ceiling. How many months do you think I have ben thinking about buying that body bag for my son? When you do stop/start, that is where you get off your duff, drive your car to Target, and buy the bag. The interesting thing is that today, body bags are only $60 now. How many times do boards complain about how expensive it is… I am using this as a metaphor. You go to your local Goodwill store, and somebody will have already donated their body bag back to the local Goodwill store. It will be hanging in a corner. You ask Goodwill if you can buy it for $10. One of the principles I try to help organizations with is there is always a way. The other thing is that N-O = O-N. No=On. When you say no to things, it keeps what matters most on. You stay focused on the things that matter. The one thing is the one thing is a great principle. I am going back to both of your questions. Safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency was a way of trying to figure out the language, which everybody is picking up now. A lot of what you are hearing from me tonight is about language. I know this is huge for the two of you as well. It’s really about language. Hugh: It is. Underneath communications is relationships. You have covered a lot of territory here, and you have answered the questions we posted. Except I’d like to hear on this meeting thing. There is a fifth unposted question out there. I like this mad/glad/sad/stop/start/continue. This is similar to tools we use, but it is distinctively different. Pretty brilliant. Will you give us the link for that free book? Stephen: Go to talkwithstephen.com, and what they can do is go in as if they were scheduling an appointment, and put in the comment box they would like a copy of the book and I will send them the books of Jumpstart Your Creativity and Success from the Inside Out. They won’t be enrolled in any email list or any autoresponder messages from me. I don’t do that. I don’t even have opt-in boxes on my websites. Just go to talkwithstephen.com. Book the appointment, we can cancel it later. Simply make a note that they want the book. If they want to ask a question, that’s great. I will get back to them. But they can also just say, “Send me the book,” and I will send those two. Hugh: This last one is a real zinger. I wish you lived closer so we could have coffee and talk more. There is this thing about meetings and making decisions together. One of my e-books out there is Conducting Power Impact Meetings. I approach it like a conductor builds ensemble, so meetings in my world are the number one killer of high-functioning teams. But they are the number one empowerment vehicle for high-performing teams. We can go either way. The difference is how the leader builds the culture through the DNA of rehearsal together. We rehearse for excellence, or we rehearse for mediocrity or even less. Give us the Stephen snapshot of decision-making. What are some of the things that are important in meetings to you? Stephen: Delivering a promise I made a minute ago: If mad/sad/glad/stop/start/continue is a process piece, the one I want to give everybody as a gift that you can share with your loved ones but also with yourself is a mini version. Hugh, let me ask you a question. If you could change any one thing immediately about the way you are spending your private time—say you used to have a hobby but no longer—what would you change? That question is a really powerful question. I use that to answer your question because one of the best practices in meetings for me is being able to facilitatively know when to ask that question. “Okay, I hear everybody complaining about the payroll system and the clocking in system and that you are frustrated about the accuracy of paychecks. If we could change any one thing immediately, what would we change?” That is an example of a powerful facilitative question. Number two: I believe that standing meetings, no chairs, no food, and no meetings longer than an hour unless justified by the seniors. There are some process pieces, too. But the one I would share that is critically important—this is my life work and John Connor’s life work, the Harvard professor—he wrote a book called Urgency—John Connor is one of the really sage experts in change management. In his original books around change, he identified the nine key principles that you have to press in order to have lasting successful change. People don’t argue with their own data. When you ask great questions, and when you ask that above question, now you start to get a group moving forward. What are the secret tools in the toolbox? If your group does not have a crystal clear understanding of the urgency of addressing this issue or the urgency of the need for change, if they do not understand the pain of continuing to do the status quo, then you are, according to John Connor’s life work—and I have experienced it myself after 20 years of change management—missing the single most powerful lever for success that is research-based and proven. If the leaders do not establish amongst themselves the urgency, the why is it so urgent we have to fix the payroll system, why is it that paychecks have to get mailed out on time. If they cannot get together about the urgency and the why behind that urgency, they are missing the fundamental, most powerful lever you can start with to effectively drive change. I will wrap up with this. In meetings, one of the most powerful tools I have come across over the years is the three D’s. I want to hear your thoughts on this, too because you all have dedicated time to this. One little tool is three D’s. It could be a part of a meeting, the first twenty minutes, and the last forty minutes is another topic. Or you could have one meeting with just one D. There are Discovery meetings, which is where last month, seven different people left with topics to research. They come back and you will dedicate 20 minutes. Each person will have two minutes to discover or talk about what they discovered out there in the universe. Another example would be Distribution, which is okay, you went out and gathered this, but now let’s distribute amongst ourselves what we need to do, leveraging the experts in the room, to take all the discovery information, distribute amongst ourselves to move this forward, to get to what, a decision. What I have found is whether it’s for profit or a nonprofit, I believe personally the reason meetings suck is nobody wants to make a decision because if we don’t make a decision, then I don’t have to be held accountable for any expectation after the meeting is over. If we can subconsciously keep this ball bouncing… I know we are doing dinner next month with the board, but what I would like to have you do is come in 20 minutes early and have a meeting about the meeting we had last time and then we will talk about what meeting we need to book for that meeting because nobody wants to make a decision. So discovery, you focus everybody. What do you all know? What do we need to distribute amongst each other now that we have done that discovery process? The last one is time to make a Decision. The decision piece hopefully is not the first time the group is bringing up the urgency conversation. To help everybody with a concrete technique, what happens if we do nothing? I love this question. If you want to see silence in a board room, they will surface an issue and are fuming, ask them that. What you will see in that moment is people will either come fighting for their cause or people will look back and say honestly,” I think we have bigger fish to fry. Rome is burning. I don’t think we need to worry about that. You are talking about golf course issues and the grass on the green.” Boom. Thank you. By simply asking that one question, if we do nothing, what happens? It helps people stop and pause. People don’t let boards sit and quiet. Hugh: You hit that a minute ago. The silence piece. It’s powerful. Russell: I am a big fan of silence. It’s part of my meditative routine in the morning. Instead of using something guided, it’s silence a lot of times. It’s really powerful. I have sat in meetings, and silence makes people uncomfortable. They are not used to being. They are used to doing. They feel like they have to do something. I consider silence a power tool. There is one question, and I think you may have covered it. David Dunworth posed a question. He said, “We used a similar process with employees in large organizations we call the 360-degree feedback system.” He posed a question about a smaller organization, and he says, “How can smaller social enterprises instill that spirit you are discussing into a tiny nonprofit that is struggling to find effective board members?” Stephen: The first part of that question is how they can instill which spirit? Which piece of it are they talking about? Russell: We were talking about motivating board members. That was at the point we were talking about motivating board members. Stephen: Okay. What I would do is do you know the why? If you look at your most successful, invigorated, excited people who are supporting you, whether it’s donors, community leaders, influencers, or board members, do you know the why for each of them, and are you looking for the distinctions of the patterns? Here is what it could sound like. If they do that homework as a small nonprofit, they could say, if you are at lunch with someone and you want to plug someone in: “You might find it interesting that 40% of our raving fans, the people most committed to this organization, the thing they are really drawn by is what we are doing with policy-makers to change the healthcare code as it relates to geriatric patients. That is what is driving them.” The fact that you know 40% of the people who are most engaged are most excited about this one thing, at least you are now putting a voice, safety, concern, show, efficiency, you are putting a language to those fundamental building blocks. Number two, quickly off the cuff on that, is do you have your own story clear enough? This is the piece I would talk about. I’ll do it this way. I will do two things simultaneously quickly here. Imagine if at the beginning of our talk today, instead of me talking about my past and what I did with Disney and all of that, imagine if we had started this talk tonight this way. “Stephen, where are you headed, and what are you most passionate about when it comes to nonprofit boards?” Well now I will share with you what Dennis, the drama-free teams expert, would say: He is on a mission between now and 2020 to create 10,000 drama-free teams in healthcare in hospitals. He is about to launch drama-free nursing, and he wants to help nurses, the largest department in hospitals, eliminate their drama. What I would share is this. Imagine if we could focus on where we are headed. What is the goal? What are we trying to do? What is the result? Bring that story forward along with consistently seeking out guest contact, safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. Now we have something more compelling, and you are drawing people to it. One other thing I want to take a moment to say is that “imagine” is a very powerful word. It’s called an imagine statement. Imagine in just three short years we eradicate polio from the continent. Think about that. Everybody uses the JFK example of going to the moon. Why was that so profound? He cast a vision that was so profound it almost… How are we going to do that? I used to run mastermind groups for small business owners in home services, plumbing, electrical, and maid services. I need everybody to hear this. I am not selling this service. I am not doing that. This is an Imagine statement. People would say, “Stephen, what do you do? I understand you work with small business owners.” I am translating what I am about to say as a framework for you. You are a small business owner, and I respond, “Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed. Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed.” Here is what happened. I interviewed 1,700 business owners in plumbing, electrical, and maid service in 2004, and what I discovered was that they worked hard but didn’t make any money, they worked hard but didn’t have a growing company, they wanted to retire, they wanted to turn over their business to their kids. If you translate that into what you are trying to do in the future and figure out what your imagine statement is… Think about the Gates foundation with mosquitoes and mosquito nets. Imagine eradicating malaria by 2020. The other thing I have modeled for everybody was the power of a pause. That is that moment for leaders. Next time you run a meeting, folks, let me ask you a question. *pause* All you do is sit at that board table, look down, and break eye contact with them. If you could change what we are doing immediately about this golf tournament, is this really the best way for us to make money this year? Is there another way? If we could change anything immediately about how we are raising money for this organization this year, what would it be? All of a sudden, you will have the audience in the palm of your hand. I turn it over to you, Hugh. I’d love to get your reaction to some of this. Hugh: This is profound stuff. We could talk the rest of the night. I want to do a wrap here. I will come back to you in the end, Stephen. I was trying to capture that. That is one of the most useful things you said all night. That one is an eye-opener. I want to let you think for a minute as a parting wish, thought, tip for people. Russ, do you have any closing comments you want to make? I want to make a couple announcements. Russell: No, I don’t have anything to add, except my thanks. I want to make sure we get his question. I took copious notes. I have learned a lot from you. I look forward to talking with you again in the future. It has been marvelous. Thank you so much. Stephen: Thank you. An honor. Hugh: It’s a gift to have you with us, Stephen. Russ shows me up all the time. I have to be careful. He has taken really good notes here. He has a way of summarizing key points and putting them in. David Dunworth who asked the question was on this series a while back, and he had one of our great interviews as well. Thank you for being on here, David, and others. What parting thought would you like to leave with people? Stephen: Folks, life is short. I just turned 50 years old, and I have a 13-year-old son, an 8-year-old dog, a puppy, and a 52-year-old wife. What I would invite everybody to think about beyond all the clichés of why we are here, what we are doing, what is the meaning of life, beyond all of that, I would make it a little bit simpler. It’s 2017. In 2027, ten years from now, summer of 2027, if you are still with us here on this earth, God willing, as true as day, you will be standing there. You will be alive and living your life. Here is my simple question. Between now and then, how do you want to spend it? How do you want to spend it? Do you want to spend it as the person who gets consumed by all the things in the media, the news, and the press, with everything that is wrong with the country and the world? Or do you want to be that light of hope and be a role model for others? Even beyond that, live the best life you can live? My question for you is: Between now and next summer, one year from now, how do you want to spend it? Hugh will have this podcast next June, and you will be here next June after a year’s worth of podcasts. Give yourself the gift today or tomorrow and simply think about how do you want to spend it? If you do that, that is time well worth spending. Hugh: Good words, sir.   Learn more about your ad choices. 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