The Message-Market Fit Podcast (Chris Silvestri)

We explore Tamara’s journey from working at Markup, a Chrome extension for design feedback, to launching her own consultancy. She discusses her approach to creating customer personas based on intent rather than traditional demographics, and how she leverages user interviews and sales team insights to uncover valuable messaging opportunities.

Tamara also shares her framework for understanding buyer roles and objections, emphasizing the importance of addressing psychological biases in marketing messages. We delve into her experimentation process and how she balances confidence with humility when proposing new marketing initiatives.

Whether you’re a SaaS founder, marketer, or product manager, this episode offers practical strategies and psychological insights to elevate your marketing game and drive growth.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH TAMARA

• Tamara on LinkedIn
• Practical Marketer website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:20 Tamara’s Experience at Markup and Reaching 400k Users
• 06:46 Creating Intent-Based Personas vs Traditional ICPs
• 15:00 Leveraging Customer Interviews for Messaging Insights
• 21:28 Tamara’s Experimentation Framework
• 26:46 Addressing Buyer Objections and Perceived Value
• 32:16 Uncovering Customer Insights Through Various Channels
• 38:12 Message Testing Strategies for B2B SaaS
• 43:54 Transitioning from In-House to Consulting
• 45:32 Upcoming Book and Newsletter Launch
• 46:08 Recommended Resources for Neuroscience in Marketing
• 49:00 Gaming Lessons Applied to Marketing

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Ryan's unique approach to customer interviews, focusing on buyer processes rather than demographics. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the larger context in which businesses operate and make decisions, rather than relying solely on job titles or company size.

Ryan walks us through his methodology for crafting effective interview questions, managing biases, and extracting valuable insights. He shares tips on how to get busy executives to participate in research and discusses the ideal number of interviews needed to reach insight saturation.

Whether you're a B2B marketer, product manager, or founder looking to better understand your customers, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you conduct customer interviews that truly move the needle for your business.

Enjoy!

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Marc's early adventures in journalism set the stage for a career built on out-of-the-box thinking and a willingness to challenge the status quo. His stories of DIY culture, punk rock ethos, and the lessons learned from a failed startup illuminate the importance of deeply understanding and relating to your audience. Marc shares his insights on leveraging cultural references to create meaningful connections with customers and the transformative power of stepping outside standard marketing playbooks.

Join us and learn how you can apply these lessons to your own marketing strategies for better engagement and growth.

CONNECT WITH MARC

• Marc on LinkedIn
• Marc's website (Positive Human)
• Marc's RINse & Repeat framework
• Podia's website

SHOW NOTES

• 03:01 Marc's Journey: From Journalism to Founding a Startup
• 07:53 The Importance of Culture in Marketing
• 11:15 The Fear of Failure in Founders
• 20:55 The Value of Experience and Empathy in Growth Marketing
• 27:00 Understanding Early Stage Companies
• 27:13 Positioning Strategies and Messaging Patterns
• 28:27 The Importance of Customer Understanding in Positioning
• 29:11 The Neglected Aspect of Positioning
• 31:34 The Role of Customer Research in Business Growth
• 32:57 The Fear of Change and the Danger of Standard Playbooks
• 34:04 The Power of Unique Insights and Customer Research
• 34:41 The Rinse and Repeat Anti-Playbook
• 42:24 The Power of Narrative in Marketing
• 46:22 The Use of AI in Marketing
• 52:36 The Impact of Innovative Marketing Approaches
• 54:14 Conclusion: The Future of Marketing

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Natália's transition into product marketing and her experience as a solo marketer at a startup. She discusses the importance of balancing strategic thinking with operational tasks and growing expertise in channels that bring the most users.

Natália takes us through Ranking Raccoon's journey, from its inception as a solution to the founders' own link-building struggles to its current position in the market. We discuss the challenges of positioning and messaging for different user segments, including in-house marketers and agency professionals.

We delve into Ranking Raccoon's approach to user research and testing, exploring various methodologies from user interviews to surveys and product launch platforms. Natália shares insights on how they test messaging across different channels and adapt their tone of voice based on user feedback.

Finally, we touch upon content marketing strategies and the balancing act between SEO and messaging goals in blog writing. Natália also shares her go-to resources for staying up-to-date in the product marketing field.

Whether you're a startup founder, an aspiring product marketer, or simply interested in the challenges of early-stage SaaS marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice to help you navigate the complexities of product positioning and messaging.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH NATALIA

• Natália on LinkedIn
• Ranking Raccoon's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:40 Natália's Journey into Product Marketing
• 05:14 Challenges as a Solo Marketer at a Startup
• 10:54 Ranking Raccoon's Origin and Target Audience
• 14:18 Value Proposition and Positioning Strategy
• 17:52 User Research Methodologies
• 21:27 Messaging Testing and Insights
• 26:48 Tone of Voice and Brand Personality
• 30:26 Challenges in Product-Market Fit and Messaging
• 38:51 Content Marketing and SEO Strategy
• 43:25 Resources for Product Marketing Learning

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Brendan emphasizes the importance of staying close to customers, sharing practical tips for marketers to engage with their audience and uncover valuable insights. He discusses the power of frameworks like "hook, story, offer" in creating compelling content and the significance of understanding how customers think, not just what they say.

Brendan also explores the role of AI in modern marketing, showcasing how tools like generative AI can help marketers draft content, extract insights from customer interviews, and streamline their workflows. However, he cautions against over-reliance on any single tool, stressing the importance of human creativity and judgment in the marketing process.

Get ready to learn from a master marketer who has honed his skills across multiple disciplines and is passionate about helping others achieve their marketing goals!

CONNECT WITH BRENDAN

• Brendan on LinkedIn
• Growth Sprints' website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:33 The Art of Education in Marketing
• 08:39 Embracing Challenges and Building for Yourself
• 09:14 Navigating Imposter Syndrome and Self-Perception
• 11:40 Finding Purpose in Work and Life
• 14:14 Transitioning to Tactical SEO Insights
• 16:06 The Power of Hook, Story, Offer in Content
• 19:36 Crafting Engaging Content on LinkedIn
• 26:26 Unlocking the Power of Visual Content
• 27:03 The Importance of Reach vs. Resonance in Content
• 27:27 Innovative Demand Generation Strategies
• 27:45 Creating Content IP and Naming Solutions
• 30:27 The Challenge of Checkbox Marketing
• 37:28 Deep Customer Insights and the Role of AI
• 46:14 Navigating the Future of Marketing and Personal Challenges

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We dive into the importance of product positioning, finding the right language for your target audience, and creating email campaigns that engage users and drive product adoption. Jane also shares her thoughts on leveraging behavioral data for personalization and finding the balance between automation and human touch.

As the host of two popular podcasts, UI Breakfast and Better Done Than Perfect, Jane discusses how these shows have helped her build relationships and gain industry insights. Finally, we explore how Jane balances her family, passions and hobbies with the demands of running a SaaS company and being a mom.

Whether you're a SaaS founder, marketer, or email enthusiast, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you elevate your email marketing game.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH JANE

• Jane on LinkedIn
• Userlist's website
• UI Breakfast podcast
• Better Done Than Perfect podcast

SHOW NOTES

• 01:44 Jane's Journey: From Creative Director to SaaS Founder
• 03:51 Building Userlist: Challenges and Learnings
• 06:46 The Importance of Positioning and Messaging
• 21:28 Effective Email Marketing Strategies for SaaS
• 26:03 Effective Pricing Models and Visual Guides
• 26:46 Behavior-Based vs. Time-Based Emails
• 27:46 Tailoring Messaging for Different Personas
• 29:50 Challenges in Consistent Messaging
• 31:08 Overcoming Email Marketing Obstacles
• 32:18 The Role of Podcasting in Marketing
• 36:46 Researching and Preparing for Podcast Guests
• 43:54 Balancing Personal Interests with Professional Life
• 45:54 Conclusion and Where to Find More

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Adam emphasizes the importance of having a unique angle and differentiating your messaging in saturated markets. He discusses the crucial role of intimately understanding your buyer persona and how it can be a significant competitive advantage in crafting compelling campaigns.

Adam also explores the value of working with skilled conversion copywriters, who can elevate your marketing efforts and drive growth. He shares his thoughts on the impact of AI on marketing, stating that only bad marketing is at risk, and highlights the importance of asking questions and being curious as a marketer.

Additionally, Adam dives into the key areas companies should focus on before implementing growth tactics, including aligning on target personas, product positioning, and growth models. He also shares his hiring philosophy, emphasizing the importance of curiosity, creativity, and a strong grasp of metrics when building a marketing team.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH ADAM

• Adam on LinkedIn
• Growth Union's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:15 The Art of Differentiation and Understanding Your Buyer
• 04:07 The Power of Conversion Copywriting and Team Collaboration
• 08:33 Leveraging AI in Marketing: Opportunities and Limitations
• 13:50 Strategic Alignment: Positioning, Messaging, and Growth
• 19:17 Collaboration and Conflict Resolution in Marketing
• 20:59 The Pitfalls of Premature Scaling and the Importance of Foundations
• 23:38 Decoding Marketing Attribution for Early Stage Companies
• 24:31 The Pitfalls of Overengineering Marketing Attribution
• 25:05 Embracing 'Close Enough' in Marketing Strategies
• 27:58 Navigating the Challenges of Marketing Research and Buy-In
• 30:21 The Power of Creativity Over Pure Data in Marketing
• 32:49 Hiring for Marketing Success: Data vs. Creativity
• 33:47 Unlocking Growth with Effective Hiring Strategies
• 38:38 Choosing the Right Agency or Freelancer for Your Marketing Needs
• 40:35 Innovating Growth Strategies with Growth Union
• 44:31 Overcoming Operational Challenges in Agency Scaling
• 46:20 Final Thoughts on Communication and Growth

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Carolyn's approach to creating hybrid one-reader messaging for multiple audiences, the importance of Jobs to Be Done research in copywriting, and strategies for effective B2B messaging and testing. Carolyn also discusses her thoughts on using AI in copywriting and the value of human creativity in the process.

Whether you're a copywriter, marketer, or founder looking to improve your messaging, this episode offers valuable insights into the art and science of conversion copywriting.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH CAROLYN

• Carolyn on LinkedIn
• Boxcar Agency website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:12 Carolyn's journey from classical musician to copywriter
• 05:55 Lessons learned from Copyhackers and balancing data with intuition
• 09:04 Boxcar Agency's focus and value proposition
• 11:55 Creating hybrid one-reader messaging for multiple audiences
• 19:24 The importance of Jobs to Be Done research in copywriting
• 24:42 Effective interview techniques for customer research
• 30:34 Testing methodologies for B2B messaging
• 36:49 Buyer modalities and decision-maker styles in copywriting
• 41:03 Common challenges in messaging and copy for clients
• 42:57 Using AI in copywriting and its limitations

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Josh emphasizes the importance of deep customer research and how it can be a game-changer in crafting copy that resonates with your target audience. He discusses his approach to helping clients uncover their unique differentiators and lean into them to create a strong category story.

Josh also shares his thoughts on the evolution of SaaS copywriting, from the early days of focusing on product features to the current landscape where companies need to go beyond the "why us" story and create a compelling narrative that sets them apart from competitors.

We explore the challenges of message testing in B2B and how Josh approaches this crucial aspect of copywriting. He also shares his perspective on the impact of AI on the industry, highlighting the importance of human intuition and the ability to extract insights from messy qualitative data.

Whether you're a SaaS marketer, copywriter, or founder, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice to help you elevate your copywriting game and stand out in a crowded market.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH JOSH

• Josh on LinkedIn
• Sway Copy's website
• Category Story newsletter

SHOW NOTES

• 02:12 Josh's Journey into Copywriting
• 02:27 The Early Days and Breakthroughs in Copywriting
• 04:35 Choosing a Niche and the Rise of SaaS Copywriting
• 05:56 Lessons Learned and Advice for New Copywriters
• 09:59 The Importance of Niching Down in Copywriting
• 11:22 Key Business Lessons from Years of Experience
• 15:14 The Power of Customer Research in Copywriting
• 20:25 Effective Strategies for Engaging with Customers
• 25:17 Unlocking Customer Feedback: The Hidden Value of Copywriting
• 25:46 Decoding the Category Story in SaaS Evolution
• 27:50 Crafting a Distinct Category Story in a Crowded Market
• 30:00 Finding Your Unique Category Story: A Strategy for Differentiation
• 34:02 Message Testing in B2B: Challenges and Strategies
• 37:17 Navigating AI in Copywriting: Insights and Concerns
• 42:29 Learning and Life Lessons: From Client Work to Personal Growth

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore the challenges product marketers face in gaining buy-in from executive teams and how to overcome them. Gab provides insights on aligning sales and marketing teams, crafting effective messaging strategies, and the importance of market segmentation for startups.

Gab also discusses his approach to podcasting, including how to differentiate in a crowded space and create meaningful conversations with guests. We touch on the concept of "message market fit" and why it's crucial for startups to focus on this before product market fit.

Whether you're a product marketer looking to elevate your role, a founder aiming to refine your messaging strategy, or simply interested in the evolving landscape of B2B marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH GAB

• Gab on LinkedIn
• We're Not Marketers podcast

SHOW NOTES

• 02:23 Gab's Journey into Product Marketing
• 04:09 Why Product Marketers Are Not Marketers
• 08:14 Qualities of a Great Product Marketer
• 10:54 Aligning Sales and Marketing Teams
• 18:33 Defining Message Market Fit
• 24:12 Challenges in B2B Marketing Jargon
• 32:18 The Role of Podcasting in B2B Marketing
• 37:14 The Importance of Market Segmentation for Startups
• 42:25 Gab's Go-to-Market Audit Process
• 47:21 Learning Resources for B2B Marketers

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Kevin discusses the unique challenges of B2B advertising compared to B2C, emphasizing the importance of audience qualification and dealing with abstract products. He explains his agency's approach to creating effective ad variations, focusing on visual headlines and leveraging the SUCCESS framework for brainstorming compelling ad ideas.

We explore the power law phenomenon in digital advertising and how it impacts ad performance and budget allocation. Kevin also shares valuable tips on working with enterprise clients, balancing creativity with data-driven decisions, and adapting messaging for different personas and decision-makers.

Whether you're a B2B marketer looking to improve your advertising ROI or a founder seeking to scale your business through paid channels, this episode offers actionable insights to elevate your advertising game.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH KEVIN

• Kevin on LinkedIn
• Right Percent's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:13 Kevin's journey into B2B advertising
• 03:21 Key differences between B2B and B2C advertising
• 05:21 The concept of performance marketing in B2B
• 10:06 How modern advertising works on power laws
• 11:57 Creating effective ad variations for B2B
• 15:54 Top lessons from working with big companies
• 19:09 Using the SUCCESS framework for ad creation
• 22:15 Balancing creativity and data in ad messaging
• 27:16 Favorite ways of testing messaging
• 31:11 Speaking to different personas and decision-makers
• 33:54 The debate between lead gen and demand gen
• 36:30 Current trends in B2B advertising for 2024
• 38:32 Using personality typing in team management

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

In this episode, Foti shares his journey of validating the idea for GrowthMentor through real conversations instead of just consuming content, how he ensures quality by interviewing every mentor, the power of reciprocity in convincing experts to offer their time for free, categorizing user research to inform FAQs and messaging, and how genuine giving creates a environment for authentic relationships.

Foti also dives into using friction as a filter, the importance of founder intuition, his counterintuitive launch strategy, and a unique “heavy metal” productivity hack. Whether you’re a founder, marketer, or just looking for mentorship, this episode is brimming with insights on entrepreneurship, growth, and the rewards of building a business centered on giving.

Please enjoy!

CONNECT WITH FOTI

• Foti on LinkedIn
• Growth Mentor’s website
• Get a copywriting mentoring session with me 😉

SHOW NOTES

• 02:03 The Genesis of Growth Mentor: A Unique Solution for Marketers
• 06:07 Foti’s Journey: From Finance to Growth Marketing
• 07:46 Understanding Growth Mentor’s Core Mission
• 10:59 Building Relationships and Learning from Conversations
• 15:30 The Power of Reciprocity and Mentorship
• 24:20 Adding Friction for Better Engagement
• 25:10 Harnessing Friction in Onboarding for Better Customer Experience
• 25:44 The Power of Personalized Onboarding Questions
• 26:25 Setting Expectations and Utilizing Microcopy
• 27:16 Leveraging FAQs and User Feedback for Improvement
• 31:10 Incorporating AI for Enhanced Product Features
• 32:33 Building a Community: The Friend Factory Concept
• 35:11 Learning from Mentor Experiences and Product Launch Insights
• 39:25 Navigating Messaging Challenges with Diverse Audiences
• 42:59 Productivity Hacks and Closing Thoughts

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

In this episode, we explore Melanie's unique career path, her passion for working with developers, and how she uses her technical background to bridge the gap between product and marketing. We also delve into her approach to customer-led growth, the challenges of scaling without losing a company's soul, and her strategies for staying ahead of the curve in the ever-evolving world of developer tools.

CONNECT WITH MELANIE

• Melanie on LinkedIn
• Warp's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:41 Melanie's Journey from Support to Product Marketing
• 05:20 The Role of a Technical Product Marketing Manager
• 06:57 Developing Technical Skills and Empathy for Developers
• 08:16 Introducing Warp: A Modern Terminal Application
• 10:44 The Passion for Working with Developers
• 12:02 Using Personal Insights for Effective Messaging
• 14:27 Staying in Touch with the Developer Community
• 16:02 Scaling Without Losing the Company's Soul
• 18:02 Advocating for the Customer Experience
• 20:22 Melanie's UX Design Skills and Their Impact
• 22:56 Evolving Warp's Website and Brand
• 25:01 Exploring the Impact of Interactive Demos vs. Direct Product Experience
• 25:59 The Power of Product Simplicity and User Onboarding
• 26:29 Tailoring Marketing Strategies to Audience Sophistication
• 28:04 Navigating the Customer Journey: From Awareness to Activation
• 29:46 Leveraging User Feedback and Assumptions in Marketing
• 32:21 The Challenges and Strategies of Messaging and Website Redesign
• 41:14 Continuous Learning and Networking in Marketing
• 47:00 Vision Boards and Personal Growth
• 48:24 Wrapping Up and Where to Find More

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Jimmy, an ex-engineer turned successful SaaS entrepreneur, takes us through his fascinating journey in the tech and software world. From his early days in the AdSense gold rush era to founding a web design agency, and eventually transitioning to a SaaS model with Content Snare, Jimmy’s story is a tale of constant learning, adaptation, and problem-solving.

In this insightful conversation, Jimmy shares his experiences, the highs and lows of entrepreneurship, and how he found his niche in the software industry. Jimmy’s entrepreneurial journey is a masterclass in adapting to market needs, understanding customer pain points, and the importance of constant iteration and feedback in product development. His journey from a web design agency to a thriving SaaS business is not just inspiring but also full of practical insights for aspiring entrepreneurs and software developers.

Please enjoy this insightful conversation with Jimmy!

Want to hear more episodes about entrepreneurship and software innovation? Check out our conversation with Amar Ghose, co-founder of Zen Maid on how he goes about understanding customers and solving problems for them.

What was your favorite insight or lesson from this episode? Share your thoughts in the comments below.

CONNECT WITH JIMMY

• LinkedIn
• Content Snare Website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:16 Jimmy’s Entrepreneurial Journey
• 03:07 The Evolution of Content Snare
• 03:52 Identifying the Problem and Building a Business
• 05:41 The Importance of Customer Feedback and Iteration
• 07:02 The Power of Open-Ended Questions
• 08:05 Understanding Your Customers’ Perspective
• 14:32 The Journey to Targeting the Accounting Industry
• 19:55 Balancing Product Features for Different Industries
• 21:58 Standing Out in a Competitive Market
• 25:38 The Struggles of Building a Multi-Functional Product
• 26:09 Finding Product-Market Fit in the Accounting Industry
• 26:41 The Journey from Web Design to Accounting
• 29:27 The Importance of Customer Feedback in Product Development
• 30:17 The Challenges of Launching New Features
• 31:47 The Role of Messaging in Reducing Churn
• 32:25 The Concept of Message-Market Fit
• 35:28 The Transition from Automation Consultancy to SaaS
• 39:33 The Power of Storytelling in Understanding Your Audience
• 41:31 The Challenge of Communicating a Unique Product Offering
• 45:22 The Joy of Trying New Beers
• 46:32 Closing Remarks and Appreciation

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout the episode, we learn what Andrew garnered from orchestrating massive digital advertising campaigns for giants like Disney, the necessary strategic mindset adjustments for B2B SaaS excellence, and the importance of deeply understanding customer needs through "jobs to be done." We also discuss the critical role of mentorship in career progression, the indispensable value of user testing in both product development and marketing, and the complexities businesses face when trying to strike a balance between product-led growth and sales-driven strategies in today's competitive market.

Please enjoy!

CONNECT WITH ANDREW

• Andrew on LinkedIn
• Andrew's Delivering Value podcast
• Delivering Value's website

SHOW NOTES

• 01:51 From Big Brands to B2B SaaS: Andrew Kaplan's Career Evolution
• 13:04 Unlocking Customer Insights: The Power of Jobs to Be Done
• 16:37 Navigating Growth Challenges: Strategies and Insights
• 18:26 The Art of Connecting Research to Actionable Steps
• 21:16 Leveraging Usability Testing for Informed Decision Making
• 25:44 The Controversy of Website Tear Downs
• 27:48 The Evolution of Expertise and Confidence
• 29:20 Navigating Career Growth and Mastery
• 31:27 The Art of Delivering Value in Consulting
• 33:40 Finding and Formalizing Mentorship
• 37:07 The Impact of Investment in Mentorship
• 44:42 Choosing Solopreneurship Over Agency Building
• 47:40 The Power of a Trophy File

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Amar Ghose, founder of ZenMaid, joins us to share his journey from starting a maid service to creating a niche B2B software in an industry not typically associated with high-tech solutions. His philosophy of targeting specific, 'boring' niches with sophisticated software solutions has driven the success of ZenMaid since its inception in 2013.

A Silicon Valley native, Amar discusses his transition from sales to entrepreneurship, the nuances of building a business in a specialized niche, and the importance of focusing on solving problems rather than being driven solely by passion for the industry. His approach of "cultivating passion" over time is a fresh perspective on how to find fulfillment in business.

Please enjoy this insightful conversation with Amar Ghose!

CONNECT WITH AMAR

• https://twitter.com/itsjustamar
• Zen Maid: http://zenmaid.com
• The Amarican Dream Blog: http://theamaricandream.com/start-here

SHOW NOTES

• 02:39 Amar's Journey into B2B and Niche Selection
• 03:20 The Birth of ZenMaid
• 04:51 Understanding the ZenMaid Customer
• 05:52 The Role of Passion in Business
• 06:55 The ZenMaid Service Explained
• 08:36 The Evolution of ZenMaid
• 13:28 Understanding the ZenMaid Ideal Customer Profile
• 17:36 Overcoming Investment Barriers
• 19:42 The Competitive Landscape
• 20:22 The Importance of Updating Copy and Messaging
• 21:46 The Importance of A/B Testing and Updating Messaging
• 22:15 Reconsidering Positioning and Adapting to Market Changes
• 23:23 The Value of Customer Engagement and Research
• 24:12 Staying Connected with Customers through Social Media
• 26:12 The Human Aspect of Business and Customer Relationships
• 29:02 The Role of Team Members in Messaging and Alignment
• 33:09 The Dual Identity of a Media and Product Company
• 36:11 The Importance of Learning and Personal Growth
• 38:53 The Dream of Owning a Football Club
• 39:57 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Talia’s unique approach to conversion optimization, which focuses on understanding customers’ emotional drivers before analyzing website data. She explains how this customer-first methodology leads to more impactful hypotheses and test ideas.

Talia breaks down the concept of emotional targeting in B2B, discussing why it’s often underestimated and how companies can effectively incorporate it into their messaging and design. We also delve into her process for conducting customer research, creating effective value propositions, and testing messaging across various channels.

Whether you’re a B2B marketer, CRO specialist, or founder looking to improve your conversion rates, this episode offers valuable insights on how to connect with your audience on an emotional level and drive sustainable growth.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH TALIA

• Talia on LinkedIn
• Talia on Twitter
• Getuplift’s website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:46 Talia’s journey from social media to CRO
• 06:26 The power of emotional targeting in B2B
• 11:42 Conducting effective customer research
• 16:28 Creating value propositions that resonate
• 21:28 Testing messaging across different channels
• 26:03 Balancing features and emotional benefits
• 31:08 Overcoming challenges in B2B messaging
• 36:27 Talia’s approach to continuous learning
• 41:37 Upcoming book on emotion in B2B marketing

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Andreea emphasizes the importance of understanding the human element in marketing, even in the face of data-driven decision-making. She shares her strategies for fostering a transparent and communicative company culture, enabling cross-functional collaboration, and leveraging customer insights to inform messaging and content creation.

Andreea also goes into her data-driven approach to marketing, discussing how she uses analytics to identify opportunities, optimize campaigns, and measure success. She highlights the significance of testing and iteration in refining messaging and the role of AI in augmenting marketing efforts while maintaining the essential human touch.

Get ready to be inspired!

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Sahil emphasizes the importance of data-driven decision-making in marketing and provides practical tips for implementing A/B tests that drive real results. He shares three key strategies that consistently perform well in B2B SaaS:

1. Showcasing product visuals on websites

2. Using bold, quantitative headlines

3. Creating easily skimmable content

We also discuss the nuances of crafting effective calls-to-action, balancing visual elements like product screenshots and videos, and the "Hook, Mirror, Ladder" framework for optimizing landing pages.

Sahil offers insights on:

- The importance of credibility in quantitative claims

- Balancing skimmability with in-depth content for different audience segments

- The role of AI in A/B testing and copywriting

- Best practices for CTAs and landing page optimization

Whether you're a SaaS marketer, growth specialist, or founder, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you improve your conversion rates and drive business growth.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH SAHIL

• Sahil on LinkedIn
• Spiralyze website

SHOW NOTES

• 01:50 Sahil's Journey to Spiralize
• 03:48 Understanding A/B Testing
• 07:10 Effective A/B Testing Strategies for B2B SaaS
• 07:48 The Power of Visuals in Conversion
• 11:12 The Role of Bold Claims and Quantitative Headlines
• 14:26 Importance of Skimmable Content
• 16:41 Interactive Demos vs. Videos
• 24:08 Optimizing Your Homepage for High Intent Audiences
• 24:30 The Power of Static Images Over Videos
• 25:07 Effective Use of Videos Below the Fold
• 26:53 Choosing the Right Data Points for Headlines
• 32:06 Balancing Skimmability and Depth in B2B Copywriting
• 35:07 The Hook, Mirror, Ladder Framework for Landing Pages
• 41:27 AI in A/B Testing and Copywriting
• 43:29 Conclusion and Where to Find More Content

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Nizam emphasizes the importance of deep customer understanding and empathy. He shares his insights on conducting effective research, building buyer personas, and leveraging tools like the Value Proposition Canvas to align product offerings with customer desires.

Nizam also sheds light on his strategic approach to messaging, advocating for value-driven communication that resonates with the target audience. He discusses the role of AI in augmenting product marketing efforts, highlighting the importance of using tools like ChatGPT responsibly and ethically.

Whether you're a product marketing professional, a content creator, or simply interested in understanding how to effectively communicate the value of your product, this episode is packed with actionable insights and practical advice.

CONNECT WITH NIZAM

• Nizam on Linkedin
• Ocelot's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:16 The Evolution of a Marketer: Nizam's Career Path
• 04:58 Adapting Titles for Audience Trust: A Marketer's Strategy
• 07:17 Content vs. Copy: Understanding the Distinction
• 09:48 Bridging Product Marketing and Content Creation
• 14:59 The Role of External Copywriters in Marketing Strategy
• 18:51 Achieving Message Market Fit: A Comprehensive Guide
• 24:18 Exploring Buyer and User Personas in Marketing
• 25:17 The Art of Collecting Valuable Customer Insights
• 27:24 Leveraging Internal Teams for Richer Customer Understanding
• 28:30 Navigating Research Budgets and Strategies
• 31:22 Embracing AI for Enhanced Product Marketing
• 37:34 Continuous Learning and Improvement in Product Marketing
• 41:57 The Power of Introversion in Product Marketing
• 45:10 Connecting and Growing in Product Marketing

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore the importance of operationalizing customer research across teams, the pitfalls of misinterpreting customer data, and how to effectively leverage customer insights for sustainable growth. Gia also discusses the challenges companies face in understanding their ideal customers and the dangers of investing in growth without a solid foundation of customer knowledge.

As an advocate for responsible AI use in marketing and research, Gia offers her perspective on the potential benefits and risks of AI in customer analysis. She emphasizes the irreplaceable value of human insight in understanding customer motivations and needs.

Whether you're a SaaS founder, marketer, or product manager, this episode offers valuable insights on how to truly understand your customers and build a growth strategy that aligns with their needs and your business goals.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH GIA

• Gia on LinkedIn
• Forget the Funnel's website
• Forget the Funnel book

SHOW NOTES

• 02:01 Gia's Journey: From Digital Marketing to Customer-Led Growth
• 04:18 Why Companies Should Move Beyond the Traditional Funnel
• 09:08 The Importance of Operationalizing Customer Research
• 13:51 Identifying and Prioritizing Ideal Customers
• 21:28 Creating a Customer Experience Map
• 27:46 From Experience Map to Messaging Strategy
• 32:17 Prioritizing Jobs to Be Done
• 43:38 Responsible Use of AI in Customer Research
• 47:13 Continuous Learning in the AI Era

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Jonathan emphasizes the importance of in-depth customer research, explaining how it enables marketers to develop messaging that resonates with their target audience. He discusses the differences between B2B and B2C marketing, highlighting the need for a thorough understanding of customer pain points, goals, and decision-making processes in the B2B space.

Jonathan also digs into the role of company culture in shaping customer interactions, sharing how Happeo redefined its core values to prioritize exceeding customer expectations. He offers practical advice on crafting concrete company values that guide decision-making and align with the organization's goals.

Additionally, Jonathan shares his favorite testing methods, including preference tests and A/B tests, to optimize messaging and improve conversion rates. He also discusses the importance of balancing quantitative and qualitative data to gain a comprehensive understanding of customers.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH JONATHAN

• Jonathan on LinkedIn
• Happeo's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:40 Jonathan's Journey: Lessons Learned and Career Evolution
• 16:28 The Power of Company Culture in Customer Communication
• 22:10 Repositioning Strategy: Navigating B2B Messaging
• 26:04 Deep Dive into Target Market Segmentation
• 26:45 Adjusting Strategy for Market Fit
• 28:09 The Power of Research in Marketing
• 31:46 Leveraging Internal Tools for External Success
• 34:22 Balancing Quantitative and Qualitative Data
• 38:23 Innovative Customer Uses of Appio
• 39:38 Authenticity in Digital Communication
• 43:24 Personal Insights: Learning from Twins

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

In this episode, we dive into Natalie's journey from growth hacker to head of growth, her strategies for gaining customer insights, the importance of infusing story into product demos, and the latest trends in leveraging interactive demos to skyrocket conversion rates.

Please enjoy!

CONNECT WITH NATALIE

• Natalie on LinkedIn
• Natalie's "Revenue on the rocks" podcast
• Navattic's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:10 Natalie Marcotulio's Journey from Growth Hacker to Head of Growth
• 04:21 Cross-Functional Collaboration and Messaging Strategies
• 08:13 Leveraging Interactive Demos for Enhanced Customer Engagement
• 09:33 The Power of Storytelling in Product Demos
• 12:20 Optimizing Interactive Demos for Maximum Impact
• 15:16 Aligning Website and UX Copy for Cohesive Messaging
• 16:32 Interactive Demos vs. Traditional Marketing Channels: A Comparative Analysis
• 18:57 The Role of Videos in B2B SaaS Marketing
• 20:33 Interactive Demos in Product-Led vs. Sales-Led Companies
• 21:27 Maximizing Team Alignment with Interactive Demos
• 22:17 Tailoring Interactive Demos for Sales Success
• 23:03 Evolving Website Messaging for Enhanced Customer Experience
• 24:56 Leveraging Customer Feedback for Website Messaging
• 27:05 The Power of Research in Crafting Effective Messaging
• 34:02 Innovative Use Cases for Interactive Demos
• 35:07 Utilizing AI for Efficient Demo Storyboarding
• 36:14 Continuous Learning and Innovation in Marketing
• 38:03 Navigating Messaging Challenges in a Competitive Market
• 39:00 Closing Remarks and Additional Resources

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Michele's transition from B2C to B2B marketing, discussing the similarities and differences in strategies and the crucial role of creativity and emotional connection in both domains. Michele shares his insights on effectively positioning against competitors as an enterprise SaaS company and the significance of simplifying messaging to resonate with target audiences.

As a mentor at Growth Mentor, Michele discusses what makes a great mentor-mentee relationship and the value of giving back to the marketing community. We also delve into his approach to skill-based hiring for marketing roles and the key attributes she looks for in candidates.

Finally, we touch upon the exciting world of generative AI and its potential impact on marketing. Michele shares his thoughts on embracing change and leveraging AI to enhance creativity and efficiency in marketing processes.

Whether you're a seasoned B2B marketer, a startup founder, or simply passionate about the future of marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable takeaways to help you navigate the ever-evolving landscape of B2B SaaS marketing.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH MICHELE

• Michele on Linkedin
• YunoJuno's website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:29 Career Journey: From Media to Marketing
• 06:55 Transitioning from B2C to B2B Marketing
• 15:00 Effective Sales and Marketing Collaboration
• 19:14 Positioning and Messaging Strategies
• 27:34 Challenges and Solutions in Enterprise Marketing
• 32:17 Hiring for Marketing Teams
• 36:27 Future Trends in B2B SaaS Marketing

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Kasia Bargielowski-Foster, an experienced Product Marketing Manager at Capsule, joins us to share her insights and journey in the world of B2B SaaS marketing. With a rich background that spans from running a successful music blog to leading roles in digital and content marketing, Kasia brings a unique perspective on understanding customer needs and crafting effective messaging.

In this episode, Kasia delves into the importance of aligning content with customer interests, the transition from content to digital marketing, and the pivotal role of product marketing in shaping business strategies. She also discusses the challenges of aligning messaging across various departments and offers advice to those aspiring to excel in SaaS product marketing.

Interested in more stories about understanding your audience at a deep level? Don't miss our conversation with Amar Ghose, co-founder at ZenMaid, where we explore how as a leader he keeps in touch with their customers' needs and motivations.

We'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Share your favorite insights in the comments.

CONNECT WITH KASIA

LinkedIn

Capsule

SHOW NOTES

• 00:00 Introduction to the Journey of a Content Executive
• 00:47 Welcome to the Message Market Bit Podcast
• 01:33 Guest Introduction: Kasia Bergilowski Foster
• 02:33 Kasia's Journey into B2B SaaS
• 02:49 The Impact of Running a Music Blog
• 03:50 Transition from Content Creation to Strategic Marketing
• 05:57 The Importance of Understanding Your Audience
• 08:12 Career Evolution: Content Executive to Digital Marketing Lead
• 08:28 The Role of Product Marketing Manager
• 14:48 Challenges of Aligning Content, Product, and Sales
• 20:18 Joining Capsule as a Product Marketing Manager
• 20:27 The Importance of Understanding Your Customers
• 27:49 Revalidating Personas and ICP
• 37:28 Advice for Aspiring B2B SaaS Product Marketers
• 41:42 Conclusion and Contact Information

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Yuval's transition from graphic design to UX writing, discussing how his sales background informs his approach to UX and the importance of delivering value before making a sale. Yuval shares his perspectives on the critical role of UX writing in reducing churn, increasing retention, and ultimately driving revenue for businesses.

As the founder of UX Writing Hub, Yuval discusses the challenges of creating consistent copy across different touchpoints and the innovative ways his team is leveraging AI to maintain brand voice across large organizations. We also delve into the future of UX writing, exploring how AI and emerging technologies are shaping the field.

Whether you're a UX writer, content designer, or simply interested in the intersection of design and communication, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice to help you elevate your UX writing game.

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH YUVAL

• Yuval on LinkedIn
• UX Writing Hub website
• Writers in Tech podcast

SHOW NOTES

01:50 Yuval's journey from graphic design to UX writing

05:56 The value of sales experience in UX writing

09:07 UX Writing Hub: Training and agency services

15:16 Linking UX writing to revenue and conversions

20:24 Balancing persuasion and usability in product copy

28:58 Creating consistent copy across touchpoints

31:52 Using AI to maintain content style guides

37:52 Exploring AI agents for UX writing processes

41:59 The future of UX writing with AI and voice interfaces

47:17 Upcoming projects and where to find Yuval

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Have you ever wondered what it takes to transition from the world of luxury hotel brands and Italian foods to pioneering digital identity solutions in the tech space? Or how lessons from crafting compelling ad campaigns can transform the way we approach B2B marketing in the SaaS industry? Eliana opens up about the skills and insights she gained from her advertising days and how they've become invaluable assets in her tech ventures.

But this episode isn't just about transitions; it's a deep dive into the art and science of understanding human psychology to influence and engage. Eliana shares her perspective on why being a marketer is akin to being a bit of a psychologist, especially when navigating the complex web of B2B relationships and sales cycles.

So, if you're curious about how storytelling, creativity, and a deep understanding of consumer behavior can revolutionize B2B marketing, you're in the right place. Join us as Eliana shares how to blend the best of advertising's creative flair with the strategic focus required for success in the tech world. Whether you're a marketer, a business leader, or just fascinated by the power of effective communication, this episode could change the way you think about marketing and innovation.

Please enjoy this insightful conversation with Eliana!

Want to hear more episodes about human psychology and behavior? Check out our conversation with Kasia Foster, PMM at Capsule on how she turned her experience in content writing into insights on understanding customers for her product role.

CONNECT WITH ELIANA

• LinkedIn
• ShareID's website

SHOW NOTES

• 00:58 Eliana's Journey from Advertising to Tech
• 02:35 Insights from the Advertising World
• 06:18 Transition to B2B Marketing and SaaS
• 11:06 Understanding Share ID's Solution
• 14:14 Marketing Strategies and Challenges in B2B SaaS
• 19:43 Expanding Share ID to Different Markets
• 21:47 Challenges of Selling in the US Market
• 22:24 The Unique Approach of Share ID
• 23:13 Behind the Scenes: Recording Interruption
• 23:24 The Advantage of Share ID's Verification Process
• 25:23 Balancing User Research and Conversion Optimization
• 25:53 The Role of Design in Messaging
• 29:15 The Importance of LinkedIn in B2B Marketing
• 35:04 The Challenge of Lead Generation
• 35:59 Learning Resources for Marketing and Messaging
• 38:24 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

Get the full shownotes here https://christophersilvestri.com/podcast/tmmf004-eliana-daboul

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout the conversation, Matt shares his insights on the importance of deeply understanding your target audience, going beyond surface-level interactions to uncover their true needs, desires, and pain points. He emphasizes the power of empathy and authenticity in building lasting relationships with customers, particularly in industries where trust and personal connection are critical.

From crafting non-linear marketing campaigns that break through the noise to leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT for efficient content creation, Matt offers a glimpse into his innovative approach to marketing. He also touches on the significance of cross-functional alignment within an organization and the need to meet customers where they are in their technology adoption journey. Whether you're a seasoned marketer or just starting out, this episode is packed with valuable lessons and actionable takeaways that will help you build stronger connections with your audience and boost your marketing efforts.

Please enjoy!

CONNECT WITH MATT

• Matt on LinkedIn
• ServiceCore's website

SHOW NOTES

• 01:21 Deep Dive with Matt: Marketing in Blue-Collar Industries
• 04:16 Matt's Marketing Philosophy: From Curiosity to Strategy
• 07:42 Service Corps: Revolutionizing Portable Sanitation with SaaS
• 11:25 Building a Marketing Foundation at Service Corps
• 13:50 Customer-Centric Marketing: Inside Out Approach
• 19:29 Creative Strategies for Overcoming Software Skepticism
• 22:08 Harnessing Facebook Groups for Industry Insights
• 22:24 Exploring Non-Linear Marketing Strategies
• 23:12 Leveraging Viral Moments for Brand Engagement
• 24:32 The Power of Authenticity in Marketing
• 28:25 Innovating with SEO and Messaging for Market Fit
• 30:05 Utilizing AI for Content Creation and Strategy
• 32:54 Adapting Messaging for Different Market Segments
• 35:28 Ensuring Cross-Departmental Alignment in Strategy
• 37:15 Achieving Message Market Fit: A Dynamic Process
• 39:36 Personal Insights: Patience and Consistency in Growth
• 42:15 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Us

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

In this episode, we dive deep into the “Jobs to Be Done” methodology with Derik Sutton and Kyle Bazzy. Derik is CMO and Kyle is SVP of Customer Success at Autobooks. The guys are seasoned professionals in B2B SaaS marketing, sales, and the fintech industry. We dive into their personal journeys that led them to SaaS, and walk you through the (often unconventional) strategies you can use to deeply understand and speak to your customers.

Kyle shares his unconventional entry into the sales world, and how a passion for entrepreneurship and technology led him to co-found a successful SaaS platform during his college days. Derik, takes us through his transition from traditional sales roles into the fintech space, emphasizing the critical role of product love and marketing in driving innovation.

We also discuss their collaboration with Chris Spiek and Bob Moesta at the Rewired Group, exploring the profound impact of the “Jobs to Be Done” framework on product adoption, retention, and overall business strategy. They shed light on the importance of aligning sales, marketing, and product development around a common language — the customer’s needs.

Please enjoy this deep dive into the transformational power of customer-centric methodologies with Derik and Kyle.

CONNECT WITH DERIK & KYLE

• Derik on LinkedIn
• Kyle on LinkedIn
• Autobooks’ website

SHOW NOTES

• 02:32 Getting to Know the Guests: Background and Journey
• 03:25 The Intersection of Sales, Marketing, and Product
• 04:28 The Impact of Customer-Centric Approach
• 11:43 The Role of Surveys and Customer Interviews
• 18:09 The Power of Questions in Sales and Marketing
• 20:45 The Conference Experience: A New Approach
• 27:59 Understanding the Sales Perspective
• 28:24 The Importance of Aligning Goals
• 28:33 The Power of Asking the Right Questions
• 29:18 The Role of Marketing in Sales
• 29:41 The Art of Crafting Effective Presentations
• 30:26 The Impact of Personal Commitment in Sales
• 30:46 The Importance of Understanding Customer Progress
• 31:43 The Power of Messaging in Sales
• 32:03 Understanding the Customer’s Career Progress
• 32:58 The Role of Trust in Building Customer Relationships
• 37:32 The Impact of Empathy in Sales and Marketing
• 42:06 The Importance of Research in Understanding Customers
• 49:27 The Challenge of Connecting and Speaking to Customers
• 53:26 Conclusion: The Power of Customer-Centric Approach

Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/

Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy