The Immortal Life of Agencies (Co:definery)

In seven short years, Uncommon Creative Studio has gone from launch to the very top of the advertising world. Alongside the reputation, the awards and of course the work, their deal with Havas now gives them the scale to go truly global. 

So how can a newly minted agency achieve so much success so quickly? To find out, we sat down with one of Uncommon’s founders, Natalie Graeme. 

Starting with Uncommon’s origin story, Natalie unpacks just how deliberately she, Lucy and Nils have authored the agency’s story - from why it exists, who they aspire to work with, and how this impacts the kinds of briefs their clients bring them. 

She also speaks to what made her want to start a different kind of agency; one with a broader skill-set than many ‘advertising’ agencies, and the freedom to protect talent from the kind of unimaginative briefs that lead to uninspiring work. 

If you run an agency that aspires to work with open-minded clients on consistently interesting briefs, then there’s a lot to learn here. 

HIGHLIGHTS 

[02.15] Uncommon’s origin story. 

[06.10] Understanding your agency’s place in the world. 

[08.40] There’s more than one way to answer a business problem. 

[14.35] Being upfront with clients about fit. 

[19.55] How brands can cut-through in today’s world.

[25.00] Valuing talent by cutting out the ‘faff fat’. 

[28.45] AI, creativity and justifying a premium.

[34.00] How agency founders can cultivate innovation. 

MORE ABOUT NATALIE:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/natalie-graeme-93608b4/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/nattergraeme

Website - uncommon.studio/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

Today’s guest is James Townsend — CEO EMEA at Stagwell and also CEO of their Brand Performance Network. Stagwell is now a multi-billion dollar challenger to the established agency HoldCo.s, so how are they approaching growth differently to their competitors? 

In a word: adaptation — by embracing the evolving needs of modern clients. James describes how Stagwell’s digital-first structure aims to be the ‘Goldilocks’ of holding companies — that ‘just right’ size between up-scale indies and the more established HoldCo.s. 

He talks about combining creatives, strategists and over 1,500 engineers to focus on solving real-world client problems. And he’s got strong views on why some agencies get stuck in the past and how to avoid it.

James also shares how Stagwell approached performance-based pricing, what he’s learnt from rivals like Publicis and Accenture, as well as how they cultivate their entrepreneurial spirit while scaling globally.

HIGHLIGHTS 

[01:55] Building a ‘just-right’ sized agency

[06:30] Choosing your clients 

[08:06] Listening to the market 

[11:21] Learning from mistakes 

[16:49] Changing how agencies get paid

[21:44] Client-centricity in practice

[22:37] The importance of traditional account handling

[24:11] Learning from the big players

[26:23] Focusing on business outcomes 

[30:48] Reasons to be optimistic

MORE ABOUT JAMES:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-townsend-7329076/

Website: stagwellglobal.com

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: 

Project Spring: wfanet.org/leadership/project-spring

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

This episode features Omid Farhang, co-founder and CEO of Majority - Adweek's newly crowned Multicultural Agency of the Year. This is a fascinating insight into how one man very consciously transitioned from insecurity to market leadership. 

From starting a podcast that became his personal 'business school curriculum', to purposefully connecting with the CMOs he most admired, Omid shares how Majority has redefined ‘multicultural’ from marginal to mainstream. As he puts it, "Beyoncé doesn’t make a different album for black people and white people. Why do agencies?"

He also describes why it’s so important to dismantle formality in client relationships and why he encourages his team to have a very specific kind of 'bad meeting'. 

Omid also beautifully fulfils the show’s promise of optimism - seeing creative problem solvers as his ultimate source of positivity, and how independent agencies are raising the creative bar for everyone, including network shops. 

HIGHLIGHTS: 

[03:26] The difference between being ‘multicultural’ and ‘for the culture’

[06:51] How a podcast became Omid’s business school

[10:56] Cracking the CMO code

[12:07] How formality harms clients relationships

[14:44] When fear is justified 

[16:52] The two kinds of bad meetings

[19:19] Breaking out of the multicultural niche

[22:38] Diversity isn’t a risk management strategy 

[26:22] Why small agencies are thriving right now

[29:00] How bureaucracy gets in the way

[31:56] The hopefulness of creativity

MORE ABOUT OMID:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/omid-farhang

Website: majorityagency.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

How clear are you on what clients REALLY want from agencies? And what if you could ask someone with a unique perspective on how agencies do great work? 

Our guest on this episode is David Meikle. The classic ‘poacher turned gamekeeper’, he was previously an agency leader, working for Grey and latterly running Ogilvy in Russia, and now he’s a search consultant. David’s also a compassionate, innovative and rigorous thinker about the advertising and marketing industry, which you’ll know if you’ve read his books. 

This far-reaching conversation covers commerciality and profit, the risks of productising your offer, and how to strike a fairer deal with procurement. We also explore why agencies are poor negotiators and a surprising truth about how less exciting clients often get better work. 

David also offers a new way to think about agency differentiation - one that clients are taking increasingly seriously.

CHAPTERS:

2.26 The difference between finance and commerciality

5.04 What agencies don't understand about profit conversion

11.07 How agencies enable Procurement to dominate them

15.10 The risks of productising agency services

24.20 Why agency marketing is like car insurance

27.15 The role of the agency's employer brand

31.30 Distinctiveness vs uniqueness

40.10 How conservative clients can get better work

42.01 Agency failures in negotiation

43.40 The concept of 'buyer's profit'

46.25 Opportunities for your employer brand

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-meikle-6194405/

DAVID'S BOOKS:

https://www.amazon.com/stores/David-Meikle/author/B071NLVJBW

LINKS:

Why Work Sucks and What to do About it - https://www.amazon.com/Why-Work-Sucks-How-Joke/dp/1591842034/

The No Asshole Rule - https://www.amazon.com/Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace-Surviving/dp/0446698202

This episode features Katie Lee - former CEO of Lucky Generals and now Chief Operating Officer of Wavemaker, the WPP media agency. Together, we explore the differences between healthy and unhealthy growth.

As a case in point, Katie shares her experience of how agencies often confuse growth with strategy, which in turn leads to unhelpful - and unhealthy - places. So if you recognise her definition of the ‘danger zone’ that this creates, then consider her wisdom a wake-up call.

We also delve deeper into the importance of role modelling and how that enables future leaders to feel empowered. And if you’ve lost your new-business mojo, Katie shares her view on how to get it back. 

Finally, this being The Immortal Life of Agencies, no episode would be complete without a clear view on how to make our industry a more joyful place to be. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[04.29] The confusion of growth and strategy.

[07.57] What matters in maintaining client relationships.

[12.35] What prevents future leaders from feeling empowered.

[15.57] Ways to regain your new-business mojo.

[20.44] Pitching to different types of audiences. 

[23.33] How growth changes when you’re the CEO.

[26.57] Two different layers of feedback. 

[30.17] The culture-building power of new-business. 

GUEST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/katie-lee-37185321/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Ruud Wanck, CEO of Candid - who describe themselves as ‘next generation holding company’. Candid’s offering has been specifically designed to address the defining challenge for modern clients - the twin needs for specialisation and integration. 

Ruud shares how he’s consolidated his group into three core offerings - brand, communications and media. And by removing so much complexity, Candid claims to be the first player to truly break down the silos in our industry.

His clarity is compelling. While so many agency groups are wrestling with their strategy, Ruud has a very specific take on what his agency CEOs remain responsible for and what is handled centrally. 

He also explores the importance of maintaining each agency's culture and independence, as well as how his growth strategy is driven purely by client needs. 

And yes, for fans of British humour, we DO talk about his name. 

HIGHLIGHTS: 

[02:14] Ricky Gervais and THAT Tweet

[03:21] Where specialisation meets integration

[09:59] Empowering CEOs to lead

[13:30] Maintaining cultures across a holding company

[17:16] Making agency mergers simpler 

[20:14] Expanding Candid’s reach 

[23:22] Avoiding the hard sell

[27:26] Driving growth via client needs

[29:49] Celebrating opportunity

MORE ABOUT RUUD:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/rudiger-wanck

Website: candidplatform.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

Having touched on the omnipresent topic that is AI in pretty much every episode, this time we dive right in. Our guest is Chris Johnson, Founder and CEO of the AI consultancy, TomorrowToday. 

And wow, does he give value for money. While much of the industry discourse around AI centres on creative tools and ideation speed, Chris is focused on commercial application. 

Our conversation starts with him sharing detailed advice on how agencies can reinvent their pitch process using commonly available AI tools. From simple efficiencies, to the creation of synthetic target audiences - and even synthetic clients! - he describes how you can proactively improve not just your ideas, but also how well they land. 

Chris also shares his experience of the challenges associated with getting agency teams on board with wholesale adoption of new tools and technologies. 

We wrap the episode by looking forward - exploring how AI will inevitably impact the way that agencies sell, price and make money. 

This is such a valuable conversation. As well as honesty, humour and pragmatism, Chris brings plenty of clarity - not least on what AI can’t do, as well as how these emerging tools can help you generate real commercial impact. 

HIGHLIGHTS

[01:41] How Chris first blew my mind

[02:51] Reinventing your pitch process with AI

[05:50] How synthetic audiences can improve your ideas

[10:00] Creating an AI version of what your clients care about

[15.30] Creating commercial value with AI tools

[18.25] How agency adoption dramatically varies 

[20.15] The mindsets that help agencies use AI effectively 

[25.20] How AI will redefine the agency business model 

[27.25] AI, value-based selling and why differentiation is essential 

[32.35] Can agencies really price on deliverables? 

[35:50] Advice for agency leaders on driving AI adoption

MORE ABOUT CHRIS:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsonchris/

Website - https://tomorrowtoday.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

Today’s guest is Toby Southgate, newly appointed Global CEO of We Are Social, and this episode is a real treat. Few leaders advocate so vocally for our industry as a whole, or - as you’ll hear - have such a refreshing perspective on their competitive set. 

Toby shares his perspective on what agencies are getting wrong when it comes to differentiation - from bloated service offerings and overused buzzwords, to why ‘the work’ isn’t what wins clients’ hearts and minds. 

He also describes how optimism and empowerment are critical ingredients for successful agency leaders - especially given the fragility of creative cultures and the constraints of the modern marketplace. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[01:52] Defining a ‘creative’ business

[03:30] How to make the whole industry stronger

[07:12] Why the agency market isn’t oversupplied

[11:43] Building a meaningful value proposition

[14:41] How leadership can energise agency teams

[21:22] Balancing change and stability

[24:57] Getting the right people on board

[32:10] Letting people do what they do best

[38:46] Keeping talent happy and engaged

MORE ABOUT TOBY:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/toby-southgate

Website: www.wearesocial.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

Just over a year ago, Common Interest burst onto the scene with the acquisition of former Coke and Airbnb CMO Jonathan Mildenhall’s fabled branding agency, TwentyFirstCenturyBrand. It was one hell of an entrance into the global agency space.

Today’s guest is Anthony Freedman, Common Interest’s CEO and Founder. Together we unpack how he’s building a new kind of holding company. 

Of course, we’ve all heard ‘new kind of…’ rhetoric before, but Anthony is unusually clear on how he’s looking to do it - in this case, to accelerate brand and business growth through creativity in popular culture. Check out his response when I challenged him on his ‘brands in culture’ proposition. He’s definitely serious about being different. 

There are so many learnings on offer here. From why specialisation matters and how risk aversion hampers innovation at scale, to unhelpful agency conditioning and how to avoid like-for-like comparison with your competitive set. 

For Anthony, being different is a commercial imperative. So if you want your own agency to create lasting standout, then you’re going to love this episode. 

HIGHLIGHTS: 

[02:32] What makes Common Interest different.

[05:48] Why CMOs struggle with cultural relevance.

[08:48] Redefining the concept of holding companies.

[13:05] A new model for cultural relevance.

[19:56] The distinction between agency positionings and value propositions.

[21:33] Why so few agencies are genuinely different.

[25:05] Avoiding the race to the bottom.

[29:01] His inspiration to be different. 

[36:30] Being right for some clients and wrong for others.

[38:20] The power of being the only choice for your target audience. 

MORE ABOUT ANTHONY:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/anthonyfreedman

Website - commoninterest.co

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

Today’s episode is powerful. It's a conversation with Rob Campbell, Chief Strategy Officer at Colenso BBDO in Auckland. The topic is diversity in agencies - and how those of us with privilege can and should be doing more.

Rob brings humanity and curiosity to his experience of diversity from beyond the shiny Western boardrooms of Soho and Madison Avenue, openly discussing what he got wrong in living and working in the US, China, Singapore, Japan and New Zealand (to name a few) as well as sharing practical advice on what he learned agency leaders can do better.

This is a rare opportunity to hear a privileged white man - one who’s at the very top of our industry - speak so candidly about his own learning journey, including a transformative experience watching the movie ‘Get Out’ with three women from the black community. 

If you believe that diversity makes agencies and creativity stronger and you aspire to be a more inclusive leader, then there’s a lot here for you.

CHAPTERS:

4.25 Becoming militant about DEI responsibility

06.53 Travelling the world based on curiosity

09.50 How knowledge of history is essential for innovation

13.30 How to bring diverse truths into the workplace

16.05 Western privilege in Black Lives Matter

21.55 What privileged white men can do differently

25.30 How to stop worrying about saying the wrong thing

32.45 Proactively creating the conditions for others to thrive

35.15 Getting past white fragility

36.12 Practical advice for agency leaders

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-campbell-723593/

Twitter - https://twitter.com/Robertc1970

From President to Presidency, Conrad shares his journey - from chasing Barack Obama around Virginia, to taking the reins at Grey London. 

He describes the importance of balancing intuition with evidence - an essential skill when balancing change with heritage at Grey over the last 12 months. 

We dive into value propositions and what makes them succeed, particularly how they become insular and indulgent if they lack jeopardy or anything meaningful for clients to buy into. 

Conrad also explores the stagnation of the agency business model, strongly advocating for a change in how agencies show-up for clients; to better assert value by redefining what it is we mean when we talk about creativity.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:09] Chasing Barack Obama around rural Virginia 

[07:06] How to make make better decisions

[11:50] Why vision really matters

[15:17] Acting on hunches

[20:32] What ‘Famously Effective’ really means for Grey

[25:14] Making agency propositions feel real

[27:39] The problem with agency pricing

[29:13] AI and demonstrating value

[33:06] The impact of creativity on business 

MORE ABOUT CONRAD:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/conrad-persons

Website: grey.com

How AI Will Disrupt Agency Compensation Models:

www.mxpiq.com/how-ai-will-disrupt-agency-compensation-models/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

More and more ‘mini-networks’ are seeking to beat the holding companies at their own game.

These often PE-backed groups of agencies can play the agile indie card, and they can also club together to service global clients. Unsurprisingly, each group claims its own point of difference vs the traditional holding company model. 

Meet The People is one such emerging network. And our guest today is Tim Ringel, their Global CEO. MTP is three years old and already home to 800 people. Which isn’t a surprise when you consider that this isn’t Tim’s first start-up rodeo. As a career-long entrepreneur, he knows a thing or two about scaling agency businesses. 

Tim is very clear on what he’s trying to do - in particular, how MTP is designed to combine the best of both worlds when it comes to indies and network agencies, and how he’s adapting to evolving client needs. 

He also shares a strong point of view on one of the biggest questions facing a mini-network - whether they should trade as a single ‘branded house’ or more of a ‘house of brands’. 

Most importantly, at a time when so many agencies lack commerciality, Tim talks passionately about how to sustain growth - and an entrepreneurial culture - as an agency scales. 

If you’re leading, launching or competing with any of these mid-sized agency groups, or even if you’d just like your own shop to be more entrepreneurial, then you’re going to really enjoy the conversation.

HIGHLIGHTS: 

[03.10] Why Tim started Meet the People. 

[07.45] How MTP offers safety to the agencies it acquires.

[10.24] Solving common commercial issues.

[11.45] Splitting clients by size and behaviour.

[15.05] Why ‘branded house vs house of brands’ is the wrong question.

[18.00] Tim’s aspiration for MTP.

[22.16] The limitations of a short-term focus. 

[27.26] Maintaining an entrepreneurial culture at scale.

[33.40] Creating psychological safety. 

[37.26] Being fearless despite market volatility. 

MORE ABOUT TIM:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/tim-ringel/ 

Website - meet-the-people.com/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

“Creativity is our ‘special sauce’”. Really, though - is it? 

This is the episode I’ve wanted to record for ages. I finally get to address my bemusement at agency leaders claiming that ‘creativity’ is their agency’s point of difference, and then delivering conference keynotes where they also say it’s the whole industry’s USP. 

Thankfully, here’s Jo Wallace - the always eloquent Global ECD at Jellyfish and founder of Good Girls Eat Dinner. Her experience and wisdom - gleaned from her fascinating career path - helps shed some light on what ‘creativity’ actually does. 

Jo explores how her job is to provide robust solutions for clients, especially when her agency is invited into the right conversations. She also talks about the consistency of client challenges and the opportunities that new tools offer everyone in the creative industry. 

This takes us onto the subject of diversity, in all its forms - particularly diversity of thought. Jo unpack where the best ideas come from and how different lenses make all the difference. 

Finally we explore the importance of taking a position on societal issues - whether that’s creatives, agencies or brands - and how we can all take responsibility for building a better world. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03.45] Why agencies are poor at selling themselves 

[07.00] Seeking new tools to address client problems

[11.50] How Jellyfish’s differences land with clients 

[14.50] Defining ‘creativity’ more broadly 

[16.45] The myths and misinformation around equality 

[20.19] How inequality hurts the economy 

[24.20] Why advancement of one group doesn’t mean another is being held back

[26.35] Should agencies be doing more to promote societal change

[29.35] Whether brands willing to stand on the right side of history

MORE ABOUT JO:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/wallacejo/ 

Website - jellyfish.com/ 

Good Girls Eat Dinner - goodgirlseatdinner.com/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter - twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

In this episode, Robin is joined by acclaimed advertising guru Rory Sutherland.

Known for his innovative thinking, particularly in applying principles of behavioural economics to advertising and consumer behaviour, he and Robin explore the barriers to innovation in modern agencies. 

From accidental innovations like Viagra, to the value of inefficiency, as well as the alignment of briefs to organisational needs, rather than those of the consumer, this far-reaching conversation offers a wealth of inspiration for having a different kind of conversation with your clients. 

They also share ideas on commercial innovation - like why agencies don’t adopt models from other industries, and how to avoid being hampered by a default to convention. 

Rory also shares a powerful observation about annual reports that you can never unhear. 

This is a fascinating perspective on the future of agencies and the cultural shifts required for meaningful progress. 

CHAPTERS:

02.18 Why advertising is like the 1920s fashion industry.

04.20 We only solve the problems we’re asked to solve.

06.08 Innovation happens in reverse.

06.52 Proactive creativity is seen as a cost. 

09.54 The danger of AI in creative thinking. 

13.38 Most problems aren’t clear until we try to solve them. 

18:12 Why Cannes should be about buying ads not awarding them. 

21.10 Most of the wealth of creativity is stolen by the advertising bureaucracy. 

24.05 Agencies sell like bad estate agents.

26.10 We can’t innovate when we’re paid by the hour. 

35.20 How media and creative agencies differ on entrepreneurialism. 

38.25 Improving profit through ‘network effects’. 

45.52 Reinventing incentives for innovation. 

47.36 Why annual reports hamper Marketers.

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland

Twitter - https://twitter.com/rorysutherland 

Rory's Publications:  

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Rory-Sutherland/author/B07L3WRSWM

Wavemaker’s Chris Peters’ newsletter ‘B2B Excellence’:

https://www.b2bexcellence.co/

DESCRIPTION

For all the talk in agencies about change, transformation and - kill me now - ‘agility’, what exactly do these words mean in practice? And is blundering through ‘change’ causing more harm than good? 

To shine a light on all this, today’s guest is Neil Perkin - the founder of Only Dead Fish, a consultancy sitting at the intersection of digital strategy, transformation and agility. He wrote the IPA’s ‘Partnering for Growth’ report, which unpacked how agencies can create long-term, mutually sustainable client relationships. He’s also a three-time author and the host of the acclaimed Google Firestarters series.

So he knows a thing or two about how agencies successfully change - from evolving your client offer, to full reinvention. 

The conversation starts with four fundamental building blocks for mutual gain with clients. We also unpack where optimization becomes transformation, and how to tell the difference between the two - including the importance of understanding the challenge before choosing your methodology for change. 

Neil also speaks to practicality - from the importance of better ways of working, to when organisations focus too much on efficiency. 

All in all, he offers us a masterclass in fast-paced change. 

HIGHLIGHTS: 

[04.40] Foundations of strong client/agency relationships

[07.25] Optimization vs transformation 

[10.55] Defining your approach to change

[16.50] Solving the right problem

[21.40] Approaching disruption like AI

[27.45] Assessing ease vs impact of change

[28.50] Balancing customer and organisational value

[32.20] The value of a brand in digital transformation

[35.10] Learning through ‘polarity of knowledge’ 

[36.20] Advice for agency leaders

MORE ABOUT NEIL:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/neilperkin/ 

Website - onlydeadfish.co.uk/ 

Neil’s books - https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Neil-Perkin/author/B06XF94WVJ 

Google Firestarters - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNBdIP33wJ3rZLkH1iR_Xjy0TznS1Ii_3 

IPA ‘Partnering for Growth’ - https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/publications-reports/partnering-for-growth (free download)

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

Ruth Mortimer is the Global President of Advertising Week, so it’s fair to say that she has an unusually broad perspective on our industry, on clients and of course on agencies. 

In this episode, you can really feel her breadth of knowledge - as well as her passion for creativity - as she compares and contrasts different markets. In particular, Ruth unpacks what’s holding back the UK market, as well as what agencies can do about it. 

She also shares her very personal perspectives on AI - not least how it can democratise creativity by bringing voices and innovations into the industry. 

Ruth’s optimism is infectious and her examples are inspiring. So if that sounds like a good way to invest half an hour, then you’ll definitely enjoy this episode.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03.39] Creativity from a global perspective and how the industry can be different in different places.

[08.43] What causes the lack of creative business problem-solving in the UK? 

[13.31] The right government can open new possibilities to the UK advertising industry.

[16.00] How can we remedy the lack of hope and optimism in the industry? 

[23.39] The impact AI brings to the creative web. 

[28.14] How AI could be a great tool to introduce new voices to the creative industry.

[31.38] Diversity and its impact on a successful business

[35.57] Practical advice for industry leaders.

GUEST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/ruthmortimer/ 

Website - advertisingweek.com/

STUFF WE MENTION:

Advertising Associations 'Ad Pays' research - https://adassoc.org.uk/advertising-pays/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

In this episode, Robin is joined by author, thinker and Genius Steals Co-Founder, Faris Yakob. Famed for his ‘digital nomad’ lifestyle as much as his insights, a LOT of agency people ask him about how to go freelance. 

So he and Robin explore why agency life sucks for a lot of people and what agency leaders can do to avoid great talent choosing to be independent consultants instead. 

Unpacking his own ‘accidental’ journey to becoming a consultant, Faris shares what he sees as the limitations and constraints of working in a traditional agency role. He and Robin also explore the business model inefficiencies that contribute to the pressures that agency CEOs face. 

If you’re interested in Faris’ recipe for how ‘unkillable’ agencies can thrive in an era of increased competition, then don’t miss this episode. 

CHAPTERS:

02.20 Why agency life sucks

07.35 How Faris’ nomadic life outside agencies came about 

12.20 What people look for from their jobs 

14.20 How our business model puts agencies in opposition to clients

17.40 Learnings from the world of management consultancy 

21.30 Advice for agency leaders to help them keep top talent

25.20 What makes agencies ‘unkillable’ 

29.30 The quest for new models 

32.20 How creativity can inform every level of the agency business

35.40 Kellogg’s long-term thinking for agencies from 1989

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/farisyakob/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/faris 

More on JWT and Kellogg’s

https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/opinion/clients-arent-just-for-christmas/6494

This episode features Nils Leonard, Co-Founder of Uncommon Creative Studio – one of the world’s most influential creative forces right now.

It’s a searingly honest conversation about what it means to matter - as an individual, a creative, an agency, and as a citizen of the world.

Nils unpacks why many agencies have a broken relationship with success - and why even for a high-profile creative, it’s really not about the work. From an industry perspective, he argues that there’s an even bigger prize to focus on.

We also explore Nils’ perspective on the role of conviction and guiding beliefs, not least how they improve the likelihood that your agency will be a success. As he puts it, every moment is a chance to do something different, to believe in yourself and to achieve great things.

If you want your agency to really stand for something, this one’s for you.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:12] Launching an agency with nothing but belief

[04:40] Becoming a reference point

[09:00] Don’t let the work do all the talking

[12:55] Winning briefs that actually matter

[18:16] Your work evidences your beliefs

[24:30] Why AI is a gift for creativity

[27:41] How creatives are building their own brands

[29:39] Choosing to make things that matter

[35:13] Every moment is a chance

MORE ABOUT NILS:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/nils-leonard

Website: uncommon.studio/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

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In this episode, Robin chats with Michael Farmer - Chairman and CEO of Michael Farmer and Co. and an influential author on agency transformation. They discuss the commercial challenges and opportunities facing agencies and explore the need for a radical change in the business model. 

Michael highlights the stagnation in client growth, the impact of AI on agency profitability and the historical focus on cost reduction over client performance. They also explore the idea of agencies taking a more consultative approach, productising solutions and charging for scopes of work instead of selling time. 

Micheal and Robin close the episode on a strong note of optimism - sharing examples of leaders (on the client side, as well as agency side) who are affecting genuine change. 

If you’re keen to evolve your agency’s business model but aren’t certain that it’s possible, then this is the episode for you.

CHAPTERS:

04:15 The lack of profitability within agencies.

10:03 The loss of AOR status. 

14:50 The lack of knowledge sharing within agencies.

22:42 AI will reduce at least 20% of billable hours.

32:42 Having the confidence to step outside the brief.

37:40 Focusing on impactful work and lasting growth for clients.

41:39 AstraZeneca’s Agency Partnership Certification program.

43:20 Procurement leaders advocating for positive change.

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer/

Michael's books:

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Michael-Farmer/author/B06X9PZB4D

“The best way to win the game is by not playing the game.” 

How’s that for a hot take on the agency business? 

It’s from Mischief’s fascinating and thoughtful Chief Creative Officer, Greg Hahn. In this episode, we unpack just how pervasive fear has become in the agency business - including where it shows up and what to do about it. 

In a world where agencies have become so meek, he’s even heard clients say that their agencies are afraid of them. Clearly this is not the path to good work.

This leads to what Greg calls ‘malicious obedience’ - where fearful agencies prioritize clients’ immediate wants over their long-term needs. 

Since co-founding Mischief just four years ago, no wonder he’s worked hard to create a culture of safety. That goes a long way to explaining how they’ve created such impressive results in such a short time. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:05] Client Needs vs. Client Wants 

[04:40] How the Pandemic changed Client/Agency Dynamics

[08:07] Freedom and Responsibility

[13:03] Building a Culture of Safety 

[16:06] Charging Clients and Valuing Senior Talent 

[27:20] Fear in the Creative Process 

[30:45] Advice for Young Creatives

[32:06] Balancing Work and Life 

[38:19] The Future of Agencies

MORE ABOUT GREG:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/greghahn

Website: mischiefusa.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter - twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

When it comes to advertising agencies, they don’t come much more prestigious than Omnicom’s DDB. Whenever any of us needs a quote of substance, Bill Bernbach - the B in DDB - is always a rich source of wisdom. 

So what a treat to sit down with their global CEO, Alex Lubar, to find out what makes DDB successful. Alex speaks to what he sees as the two driving forces of agency culture - momentum and optimism - and how they’re an essential foundation for innovation. 

We also cover how quality drives differentiation in a marketplace that’s often seen as oversupplied. And Alex shares his perspective on creating shared goals with clients, as well as how to maintain the trust and transparency required to ensure success. 

Alex has an ease in the way he approaches his work, whether that’s dealing with difficult clients or handling the natural ups and downs of agency life. So regardless of whether you’re also in a big global role, this conversation is a valuable masterclass in optimism and positivity.

HIGHLIGHTS 

[04.07] The two driving forces of agency culture.

[05.39] How supportive environments help solve problems.

[07.07] Maintaining the highest standard of behaviour in the workplace. 

[09.57] Talent management and self-improvement.

[15.16] Insights from younger generations. 

[19.45] Trends in client behaviour. 

[22.30] Building an honest relationship between clients and your team. 

[29.00] Perceived oversupply in the agency market.

[30.25] Differentiation comes through the lens of quality. 

[32.48] How clients choose agencies. 

MORE ABOUT ALEX:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/alex-lubar-292b744/ 

Website - ddb.com/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

“Running an agency is like doing a jigsaw with some of the pieces missing.”

How’s that for candour from GroupM’s EMEA’s CEO Josh Krichefski? This conversation unpacks the joys and challenges of running an agency of international scale - from the inevitable cycle of client wins and client losses, to the increasingly transformational needs of modern clients. 

Josh also offers his perspective on the trends reshaping the industry, including how AI is enhancing efficiency, redefining agency operations and emphasising the importance of human creativity and intelligence. 

In his other role, as President of the IPA, Josh has made mental health central to his agenda. He shares his perspective on therapy, resilience and open communication. In particular, he explains how agency differentiation and new technologies can positively impact wellbeing as the industry evolves.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:16] How the industry is in fast-forward

[06:30] Why AI is only part of the solution to pressure on agencies

[08:59] The impact of AI on the billable hour 

[09:50] Becoming more client-driven at group level

[15:05] The impact of losing long-term clients 

[16:40] What clients are increasingly demanding from agencies

[20:20] Differentiating on people vs data

[24:02] What agencies still need to figure out on wellbeing 

[28:35] Connecting differentiation, winning and mental health

[30:34] Taking the pain out of agency life

MORE ABOUT JOSH:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/josh-krichefski

Website: groupm.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

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Our guest today is the wonderful Harjot Singh - Global Chief Strategy Officer at McCann & McCann Worldgroup. This is a rich and personal conversation about the impact of people being different in our industry. 

Harjot has a real way with words and he shares some lovely thoughts, not least on the critical difference between discipline and dogma when it comes to great work. He also beautifully captures what he calls the ‘dance’ that occurs between agencies and their clients as we strike a balance between offering certainty and possibility. 

Harjot also speaks candidly about there not being a playbook to follow as he progressed through the ranks. And his perspective on imposter syndrome is particularly powerful; using his own doubts as a prompt to search for more information and greater insight. 

I really love the groundedness that Harjot brings to the conversation. If you’re looking for an example of how to stay present, really listen and offer genuine answers, there’s a lot to learn here. He talks the talk on being yourself and he certainly walks the walk too. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[05.38] Balancing certainty and possibility.

[07.36] The art of persuasion and positive outcomes.

[12.13] Why observation and attention is so important.

[19.00] Listening to your mind and processing what you hear.

[24.22] Why good people make good leaders. 

[30.07] You can't do different if you're not different.

[34.32] Advice for agency leaders.

MORE ABOT HARJOT:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/harjot-singh-30a33b2/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/iamharjsingh 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

Burnout is everywhere. And let’s be honest – agency life isn’t helping. The pressure’s relentless, deadlines never stop and somehow you're just supposed to keep going. So how can you avoid running yourself and your team into the ground?

Bianca Best is the Global Growth Officer at Performics – the performance marketing arm of Publicis Media. She’s also the founder of The Burnout Business and the author of Big Impact Without Burnout (out March 11). 

In this episode of The Immortal Life of Agencies, Bianca lifts the lid on why burnout is hitting our industry so hard – and more importantly, how to stop it in its tracks. As well as shocking stats (63% of us are thinking about quitting), she offers practical advice to help you keep your energy up and your stress levels down.

From spotting the warning signs to calling out toxic work cultures, Bianca focuses on the things that leaders and individuals can actually change. Because let’s face it – offering your team a free meditation app isn’t going to fix this mess. 

HIGHLIGHTS: 

[02:52] From startup life to agency leadership

[08:38] Why agency burnout keeps getting worse

[10:31] The shocking burnout stats you need to know

[12:56] Why young people don’t want to become leaders

[14:33] How burnout skews towards women

[16:07] Corporate responsibility vs. individual responsibility

[21:11] Why ‘doing it all’ isn’t the goal

[24:59] How to spot burnout before it’s too late

[31:19] Helping junior talent avoid burnout

[36:21] How leaders can change the conversation about wellbeing 

MORE ABOUT BIANCA

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/biancabest

More on ‘Big Impact Without Burnout’: biancabest.com

(Use code BIWB25 for 25% off via Watkins - UK only, sorry!)

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

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Sue Unerman is the Chief Transformation Officer of EssenceMediacomX. And having spent 34 years with Mediacom in its various incarnations, it’s fair to say that ‘transformation’ is a subject that Sue knows a thing or two about. 

Unpacking her personal journey across five decades (sorry, Sue!), this far-reaching conversation explores how to build an agency career amidst constant change and increasing uncertainty. 

From playing to your strengths, to the impact of having great bosses, Sue shares her typically thoughtful observations on how to thrive as an introvert, particularly if your skills don’t conform to the norms. 

We also address the resilience of the patriarchy, in particular how gender influences career progression and why men progress faster than equally capable women. 

Sue also advocates strongly for fairness and straight talking, as well as how agency leaders can foster a sense of belonging - especially for young talent as they make their way in the industry. 

HIGHLIGHTS

[02.10] Sue’s career journey.

[04.48] The importance of collaboration. 

[08.22] What it takes to play to your strengths. 

[12.30] The two ways of building a career in agencies.

[16.11] Different approaches for introverts and extroverts.

[20.34] The value of fairness and straight talking.

[23.50] Levelling the playing field for women in agencies.

[30.21] Glass-slipper syndrome and what makes a ‘job’ a job.

MORE ABOUT SUE: 

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/sue-unerman-7945058/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/SueU 

Sue’s books -  https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Sue-Unerman/author/B007STF5DS 

Sue's blog - sueunerman.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter - twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

www.codefinery.com

Have you ever attached a 270-foot dragon to the top of the Empire State Building? No, me neither. 

And how do your most audacious ideas make it into the world - especially if your agency doesn’t offer clients the reassurance of a readymade creative reputation? 

To explore that question, today’s guest on The Immortal Life of Agencies is Trevor Guthrie, co-founder of US-based independent, Giant Spoon. 

Now, of course these days Giant Spoon do have that stellar reputation - as evidenced by their work for the likes of HP, Netflix and Google, not to mention their hatful of awards. But Trevor and his co-founders didn’t launch their business with that kind of track record. 

He shares how his background in media and technology, as well as his commitment to collaboration and curiosity have propelled Giant Spoon’s success. 

As Trevor’s insights show, you don’t need to have a storied career and a stack of Cannes Lions to get to the top of the creative tree. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[04:41] How to put a dragon on the Empire State Building

[07:30] Thinking big and breaking boundaries

[13:23] Earning your chair at the table

[17:40] Offering clients multiple front doors

[18:36] How media and creative work together

[19:30] Winning trust through creativity

[20:32] Collaboration over competition

[27:15] Specialists vs. generalists

[29:54] Maintaining curiosity as a secret weapon

MORE ABOUT TREVOR:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/trevor-guthrie

Website: giantspoon.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

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