The Conversation (Ben and NiNi)

Queer truth is on back on the menu, just as we were starting to get FAMISHED. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Marahuyo Project and No One Cares For An Old Man's Underwear.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome 01:15 Introduction 08:40 Marahuyo Project: A Queer Activist's Story 20:24 Marahuyo Project: On Queerness 30:16 Marahuyo Project: Our Characters 42:09 Marahuyo Project: The Christina Story 48:52 Marahuyo Project: Parents and Children 54:54 Marahuyo Project: Final Thoughts and Ratings 59:48 Ossan no Pants 01:05:18 Ossan no Pants: Our Characters 01:26:30 Ossan no Pants: Key Character Arcs 01:36:49 Ossan no Pants: Furuike and That Fucking Guy 01:45:25 Ossan no Pants: Final Thoughts and Ratings 01:51:18 Importance of Variety in Media Consumption

Second chance romances, long-term pining, and their roles in queer narratives are our JAM, so we gotta talk about how two Japanese BLs should have been 10s but absolutely flopped for us. Ben, NiNi and Twig talk Love Is Better The Second Time Around and Living With Him. Join us to break down what it's like to watch a show fall apart in real time.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00:00 Welcome

00:01:15 Introduction

00:02:38 Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Worked

00:13:31 Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Didn't Work

00:23:32 Love Is Better The Second Time Around: Final Thoughts and Ratings

00:26:54 Living With Him: How It Started

00:36:33 Living With Him: Where It Went Wrong

00:44:40 Living With Him: Final Thoughts and Ratings

00:52:03 Why The Queerness Matters

Welcome to our fall series! We're doing something a little different this season…

Ben, NiNi and Shan discuss a weird year for QL and look ahead to 2025.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome

00:55 2024 Headlines: Industry Consolidation

06:49 2024 Headline: Self-Censorship

13:52 2024 Headlines: Vertical Format Micro-BLs and Other Shit We're Anti

20:14 Festivus Airing Of The Grievances

36:51 2024 Fan Awards

55:49 QL Resolutions

01:04:45 Affirmations and Hopes for the Future

School's in at GMMTV, but we gotta put two series in detention for not fulfilling the assignment. The actors were charming, but the finishes were...rough. Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk 23.5 and Only Boo, the merits of high school stories, and the specific challenges of telling stories about queer high schoolers.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00:00 Welcome

00:01:15 Introduction

00:02:18 23.5: Early Reactions

00:14:18 23.5: Supporting Characters

00:21:27 23.5: Frustration with the Writing and Execution

00:33:42 23.5: Final Arc and Ratings

00:38:42 Only Boo

00:48:06 Only Boo: Popping the Bubble

00:58:42 Only Boo: If You're Gonna Do An Idol Story, Commit

01:05:06 Only Boo: Final Thoughts and Ratings

01:08:45 Outro: High School Blues

It's been awhile since we checked in on Taiwan, and the latest offerings have really run the gamut in terms of quality. Ben, NiNi, and Shan sat down to discuss the state of Taiwanese BL via two recent shows, Anti Reset and Unknown. Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:11 Anti Reset and VBL 00:13:13 Unknown the Series 00:20:16 Unknown: The Pseudo Incest Trope 00:27:53 Unknown: San Pang, Li Li, and Family in the Narrative 00:35:48 Unknown: The Ending Stumble 00:43:32 Unknown: Adapting the Da Ge Novel 00:46:15 Unknown: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:51:53 Whither Taiwanese BL?

Summer didn’t give us a lot to say, but we ALWAYS got something to say. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk a highlight of the season, Twig reports from the field, and we award summer’s Girl Who Tried.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00:00 Welcome

00:01:15 Introduction

00:02:21 Twig’s Dispatch

00:14:24 Spotlight: Tadaima Okaeri

00:20:34 Girl, You Tried

00:27:08 Celebrating 50 Episodes

It’s our 3rd Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards and we’ve changed up our whole shit! Ben and NiNi talk the best things we watched all year.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome

00:55 Introduction: It's Awards Season Once More

02:09 Acting!

08:00 Ships Ahoy!

16:31 Immortal Technique

29:05 Top Tings

41:43 Special Class Awards

43:11 Special Class: Honourable Mentions

47:36 Special Class: Mark Pakin 6th Man Awards

51:13 Special Class: Standout Queer Narratives

01:06:00 Outro

We're back! Welcome to our spring series! We were well-fed this winter so we've got a LOT to talk about, and we're really excited to get to it, and here's a little tease for ya.

Transcription team takeover! Ginny and Shan pull back the curtain and talk some of their favourite outtakes from the past year of conversations in our holiday clip show special. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/737688506309165056/julies-greatest-hits-vol-1-the-holiday-clip?source=share] 00:20-Transcription Team Takeover 06:57-Goofing Off 14:45-Sex in BL 22:33-Industry Stuff 38:33-Gay Rants 51:46-Other Media 01:07:57-Gratuitous Mentions of What Did You Eat Yesterday? 01:15:11-Wrap-up

In our Summer Lagniappe, Ben, NiNi and a special guest discuss the ups and downs of the spring season and speculate on what we'll be talking about come the fall. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/724378470843645952/summer-2023-langiappe?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:15-Intro 03:14-Talk Nice to Us 13:11-Catch Up Corner 13:59-My Only 12% 22:52-Roommates of Poongduck 304 26:14-She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat 30:09-The Shipper 59:46-Next Watches 01:02:33-Me, My Husband, and My Husband's Boyfriend 01:15:53-Spring Roundup 01:39:34-Girl, You Tried 01:46:56-Looking Ahead

In the conclusion to our winter series, we award our Best In Class VIIB Awards (Very Important Internet BL Awards) 2022, and hand out Special Class awards to two very special shows. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/707198953402351616/the-viib-awards-part-3-best-in-class-by-ben-and?source=share] 00:00:21 Introduction 00:02:56 Girl, You Tried 00:22:01 Best GL 00:37:26 Best Small Market BL 00:45:57 Best K-BL 00:50:34 Best J-BL 00:55:51 Best Taiwanese BL 01:02:54 Best Thai BL 01:07:47 BL of the Year 01:12:46 Queer Narratives of the Year 02:04:29 Wrap Up

Ben, NiNi, Ginny and Shan look back at 2023 and ahead to 2024 in QL. Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:03:24 Question: Holding back takes for the podcast 00:05:39 Question: Under-discussed topics in the discourse 00:12:44 Question: The draw of Japanese BL 00:20:45 Question: Stories about older characters 00:25:22 Question: Cross-country adaptations 00:31:21 Question: Biggest wins and losses of the bl industry in 2023 00:36:38 Question: The next big BL trope wave 00:40:30 Question: Welcome back, Kotter and go home, Roger 00:46:45 Question: To all the lurkers 00:49:31 2023 Headlines 00:53:31 Best Boy and Best Girl 00:56:17 2024 QL Resolutions 01:01:43 The BGP! 01:11:05 The Year Ahead (GIVE US LESBIANS!) 01:24:58 Outro

So nice you gotta do it twice? These three shows went back to the well for a second outing, with mixed results. Ben and NiNi talk Cutie Pie 2 You, Utsukushii Kare 2 and Between Us.

Y'all, MAME gave us one. Nobody's more shocked than us. Ben and NiNi talk Wedding Plan. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/732261894841417728/in-your-lavender-the-wedding-plan-episode?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:16-Intro 03:00-MAME's previous crimes 15:18-Realities of the closet and fandom misunderstanding the show 29:23-Things we love and final ratings 37:26-And another thing! The Wedding Plan special

It's always time fuckery vs head fuckery when we head to the second chance romance well, and the fall was no different. Ben and NiNi talk Tokyo In April Is…and Be My Favourite. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/731991891180208128/on-time-and-memory?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:16-Intro 03:10-Tokyo In April Is... 11:01-TIAI: Comparisons with the manga 14:15-TIAI: Strength of execution 26:23-Be My Favorite 34:00-BMF: The time travel mechanic 44:47-BMF: Dings 52:57-BMF: Jittirain and Gawin and Krist 01:00:58-Outro

In our winter series, we hand out Ben and NiNi's Very Important Internet BL (VIIB) Awards for 2022 and discuss industry trends both artistic and commercial over the course of 3 episodes. In part 1, we award actors and ships, and Ben and NiNi go head to head over side ship of the year. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/707198785883947008/the-viib-awards-part-1-actors-and-ships-by-ben?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:16 Intro 00:08:40 Best Acted Scene 00:18:40 Best Cast  00:25:06 Best Acting Pair 00:34:30 Best Actor 00:47:05 Best Ghost Ship 00:57:19 Best OT3 01:04:40 Best Friendship 01:14:10 Best Side Ship 01:32:20 Best Main Ship 01:51:28 Wrap Up

Our winter series continues with more VIIB Awards (Very Important Internet BL Awards) 2022! Part 2 is our industry deep dive, where we award all things technical and look at where BL's been this year and where it's going next. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/707198870689611776/the-viib-awards-part-2-behind-the-scenes-by-ben?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:53 Best OST 00:11:42 Best Music 00:18:50 Best Production 00:32:34 Best Screenplay 00:50:25 Best Direction 01:06:59 Industry Talks 01:31:02 Queerness in BL

Japan is churning them out almost faster than we can keep up, so we dedicated a whole grab bag episode to give them the attention they're asking for. Ben, NiNi, Ginny and Shan talk what's working and what's not in Japanese BL as we discuss Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun, One Room Angel, Perfect Propose, Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro Ka, I Want To See Only You and I Became the Star of a BL Drama. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/751105923599204352/mixed-nuts-part-2-thoughts-on-yaoi?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Grab Bag Part 2: J-BL 00:02:22 Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun 00:11:29 One Room Angel  00:18:54 A Note on MBS Tunku Shower 00:26:01 Perfect Propose 00:49:27 Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro Ka 01:04:44 I Want To See Only You 01:10:55 I Became the Star of a BL Drama 01:26:16 Outro

Fall gave us a few absolute bangers and an assortment of fair-to-flops. We're ready to talk about them all with some very special guests, give out our VIIB Awards, and look back at 2023 one last time. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/738604275548192768/winter-2024-teaser?source=share]

Everything old is new again, in four shows that might make you consider calling up an ex…or not. Ben and NiNi talk The Warp Effect, The Director Who Buys Me Dinner, The End of the World With You and Individual Circumstances. TW: discussions of suicide 30:06-36:12

It was an uneven year for Tee Bundit, but he clearly saved his best for last. Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk the epic romanticism of I Feel You Linger In The Air. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/739243878275792896/swoon-the-i-feel-you-linger-in-the-air-episode?source=share] 01:20 I Feel You Linger in the Air: Big Damn Romance 21:35 Depictions of Intimacy 30:21 Head v. Heart 37:37 Beyond the Romance and Story Integration 49:15 Anticipating the Special (Or Not) 54:08 Final Thoughts

BL is really leaning into genre in a big way, and we're too big nerds to let that go uncommented upon. Ben, NiNi, Ginny and Shan talk some successes and failures in genre blending over the winter season in Playboyy, 7 Days Before Valentine, Dead Friend Forever and Love For Love's Sake. **TW for Dead Friend Forever: discussions of violence and gore** **TW for Love For Love's Sake: discussions of suicide and self-harm** Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/750570714469367808/spring-grab-bag-part-1-genre-shows?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows 00:02:37 Playboyy 00:18:42 7 Days Before Valentine 00:29:35 Dead Friend Forever 00:50:03 Love For Love's Sake 01:13:39 Outro

It's a mailbag episode! Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:10 Inbox: Surprises of the Season 00:07:07 Inbox: Does Categorization Matter? 00:11:42 Inbox: BL Fatigue? 00:15:51 Inbox: The BL Bubble 00:30:26 Inbox: Sex On Screen 00:41:07 Inbox: Fave Sex Scenes 00:51:24 Inbox: Worst Sex Scenes 01:04:24 Bonus Round: Best Sex in a Bad Show 01:06:54 Inbox: Critical Philosophy 01:18:31 Outro

These three shows are the stuff of HR nightmares, but we suppose the course of true love never did run smooth. Ben and NiNi talk GAP the Series, The New Employee, and HIStory 5: Love in the Future.

It's the Only Friends episode and David is back! Ben, NiNi and David start the year talking about six fucked up boys, and how frustrating fandom can be. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/738968288664731648/bottom-dementia-the-only-friends-episode?source=share] 00:00 Introduction 01:20 Only Friends and What We Liked 13:47 What We Wanted from the Show 26:40 Where the Story Breaks Down 38:40 Bottom Dementia™ 47:38 Do Not Take Only Friends Seriously 51:00 Final Thoughts (Two Months Later)

Yes, a whole goddamn episode. We've got a lot to say y'all, buckle in! Ben and NiNi talk Moonlight Chicken.

In our Fall Lagniappe, Ben and NiNi reflect on a relatively quiet season, discuss some old and new shows with Shan, and look ahead to the end of the year. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/732627173164335104/fall-2023-lagniappe?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 03:03-Letters 16:15-The Pornographer 29:20-Coffee Prince 43:05-Be Mine, SuperStar 49:40-Hidden Agenda 56:14-Minato's Laundromat 2 01:06:47-Why R U? (Korea) 01:09:51-Sing My Crush 01:20:43-Heartstopper 2 01:30:45-Girl, You Tried 01:40:23-Looking Ahead

We're kicking things off this season by looking at two wildly differing takes on high school romance. Ben and NiNi talk My School President, and Never Let Me Go.

Ben and NiNi talk The Eighth Sense, and Ben explains the whole Hedwig thing. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/722747117899251712/summer-2023-ep-2-the-eighth-sense?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:04-The Eighth Sense 18:00-The Relationships Between the Seniors and Juniors 27:45-The Hedwig Incident 36:32-Ae Ri 42:50-Ji Hyun and Jae Won 50:38-Joon Pyo and Boss Lady 56:28-Let's Talk About The Kissing (And Episode 6) 01:06:21-The Party Scene and Forgiveness 01:17:14-On a Possible Second Season 01:24:10-Checking in Two Months Later

In part 2 of our retrospective, NiNi leads a panel talk on I Promised You The Moon, and Ben and NiNi talk Last Twilight In Phuket. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/731625229802258432/the-itsay-anniversary-show-part-2?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:16-Intro 08:00-Panel introduction 08:45-How did you come to BL and ITSAY/IPTYM? 14:35-Expectations of IPYTM 22:40-Narrative structure 31:36-Teh and Oh's characters 37:57-Presence or absence of queer community 42:33-Relationship conflicts 47:05-That snake Jai 01:01:38-The ending and character development 01:15:23-Favorite scenes 01:23:51-Outro

The Second Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards are here! In Part 5, Ben and NiNi award standouts that didn't quite fit into the QL genre but were just too good to NOT award. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/740683579544256512/the-viib-awards-2024-special-class?source=share] 00:00 Welcome 01:23 Introduction 03:03 Interlude: The Beach - Moonlight (2016) 04:18 Honourable Mention: The Day I Loved You 10:26 Honourable Mention: Chen Yi and Ai Di - Kiseki: Dear To Me 15:44 Honourable Mention: Sasake and Miyano Graduation 21:41 6th Man: Mark Pakin Kuna-anuvit 31:33 Standout Queer Narrative: Moonlight Chicken 38:02 Standout Queer Narrative: The Warp Effect  41:30 Standout Queer Narrative: What Did You Eat Yesterday? 2 46:54 Outro

Another day, another Japanese sequel. Ben, NiNi and new friend of the pod Twig talk Ossan's Love, being influenced by fandom reactions and Old Man Yaoi. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/748486190269923328/dispatch-the-ossans-love-episode?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction and Some Context 00:06:25 Ossan's Love History and Summary 00:13:42 The Characters 00:28:23 Love or Dead and In The Sky 00:39:00 Ossan's Love Returns 00:45:33 Final thoughts and Ratings

LAGNIAPPE \LAN-yap\ noun: A French Creole word that means 'a little extra'. We discovered our two cultures have this word in common, so we absolutely had to use it for our bonus episodes! In our Winter Lagniappe, Ben and NiNi break down the shows we will be, won't be and may be watching in 2023. Will NiNi return to Taiwanese BL? Will Ben get his watchlist down under 50? Will this finally be the year Summerdaze comes out? Nobody knows what the future holds, but the speculation is always fun. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/707556852483915776/winter-lagniappe-by-ben-and-nini?source=share] 00:00:21 Introduction 00:02:33 What We're Watching 00:11:51 GMMTV Watch List 00:33:59 Domundi Watch List 00:38:56 DeeHup House Watch List 00:41:35 Be On Cloud Watch List 00:51:30 Thailand Watch List 00:54:31 Japan Watch List 00:57:09 Korea Watch List 00:59:53 Philippines Watch List 01:01:31 Catch Ups

A second season provided the perfect excuse for us to finally GEEK OUT about our very top show. Ben and NiNi talk all things What Did You Eat Yesterday? Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/739602595178594304/om-nom-nom-the-what-did-you-eat-yesterday?source=share] 01:15 What Did You Eat Yesterday?: The Granddaddy 12:08 Favorite Episodes 19:22 The Show that Keeps Coming Back 24:57 Season 2: Mortality, Family, and Hets 43:10 WDYEY? is So Gay and Found Family 50:54 Let's Talk About The Food 56:36 Final Thoughts (And A Moment to Drag Nobu)

2 hours, 8 specials...it's the Our Skyy 2 episode! Ben and NiNi break down and rank all 8 stories from worst to first, and talk a little bit about why sequels matter. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/723109825220919296/welcome-back-my-boyfriend?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:15-Intro 06:07-Vice Versa 14:23-Star In My Mind 19:20-Never Let Me Go 28:00-A Boss and A Babe 36:45-The Eclipse 49:50-My School President 01:00:24-Bad Buddy x A Tale of Thousand Stars 01:59:13-Overall Score for Our Skyy 2

The pulps are evolving in what seems like two distinct directions, and we have some thoughts on that. Ben, NiNi and friend of the pod Twig talk We Are and Knock Knock, Boys!

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome
01:15 Introduction
05:56 We Are: Branded Pair Background
14:37 We Are: A Rorschach Test of a Show
30:47 We Are: Final Thoughts and Ratings
38:21 Knock Knock, Boys!
48:39 Knock Knock, Boys!: Sex Positivity
55:51 Knock Knock, Boys!: Our Fab Four (and Jane)
01:09:58 Knock Knock, Boys!: Final Thoughts and Ratings
01:14:54 Importance of Pulps as Labs

Japan is leaning into its cosy heartwarming bona fides and we're (mostly) liking what it's giving. Ben and NiNi talk J-BLs Jack O'Frost, Our Dining Table and Naked Dining. Episode transcript available here. 00:00-Welcome 01:15-Intro 02:01-Jack O'Frost 23:40-Our Dining Table (Bokura no Shokutaku) 48:00-Naked Dining (Zenra Meshi) 01:02:50-The J-BL Victory Lap and the Food BL Flop

In our pre-show episode, fandom uncle and auntie Ben and NiNi talk about how we came to BL/GL/QL, why we wanted to do a podcast about it, and why we enjoy talking with each other about media. If you like what you hear, stay tuned for our winter series, the VIIB Awards 2022 (that's the Very Important Internet BL Awards), dropping soon!

Office romance is shaping up to be the trend of the year, with more shows this spring vying to put their stamp on the subgenre. In this episode, we pit former collaborators Cheewin Thanamin and New Siwaj against each other with their pretty much opposite takes on workplace romance. Ben and NiNi talk Bed Friend and A Boss and A Babe. TW: Bed Friend discussion 2:47-41:01 including discussions of physical, emotional and sexual abuse. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/723381383918157824/work-bitch?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:15-Intro and Trigger Heads Up 02:47-Bed Friend 41:01-A Boss and A Babe 01:25:16-Cheewin vs New

We haven't written this much meta since the Bad Buddy era! Thailand put out two brain-melters at the very end of the season and we added an entire episode just for them. Ben and NiNi talk Step By Step and La Pluie. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/724015787647680512/adult-swim?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:15-Intro 02:13-Step by Step  04:40-A Moment of Simping 08:40-Big Themes 16:52-The Romance 25:45-Story Execution 50:25-Where are we on Tee Bundit? 53:10-La Pluie 57:50-The Soulmate Myth 01:08:22-Lomfon is Rude! 01:13:30-Tai Also Deserves Some Smoke 01:18:26-Tai's Dad Read as Queer  01:20:48-The Romance 01:32:06-Male Anger 01:35:50-Nara 01:40:47-The Side Characters 01:44:02-Sequel Potential 01:46:02-Outro

In our Spring Lagniappe, Ben and NiNi look back at the winter season as a whole, catch up on some stuff we missed, and talk a little about what we're watching now, and what we plan to be watching over the next season.

In our Spring Lagniappe, Ben and NiNi and friend of the pod Twig answer some questions, drive-by some pulps, and award the season's 'Girl, You Tried'. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/751828830310760448/spring-2024-lagniappe?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Inbox: Comparing Cherry Magic Adaptations 00:10:17 Inbox: Remaking Het Romances into QL 00:16:04 Catch Up Corner: Young Royals season 3 00:21:23 Catch Up Corner: Man Suang 00:25:12 Catch Up Corner: DNA Says Love You 00:29:23 Twig's Dispatch 00:38:35 Winter Round Up 00:44:45 Girl, You Tried 00:47:35 Look Ahead

Thai BL has been suffering some...performance issues lately, so we're diving into why these shows can't seem to keep it up. Ben and NiNi talk Last Twilight and The Sign with friends of the pod Aiden and Captain Hands. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/749926703983443968/roses-thorns-and-buds-a-last-twilight-and-the?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:03:54 Last Twilight: Roses and Thorns 00:09:35 Last Twilight: Failed Expectations 00:15:54 Last Twilight: Ableism 00:22:02 Last Twilight: Buds 00:25:22 Last Twilight: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:29:26 Intermezzo 00:32:43 The Sign: Roses 00:39:32 The Sign: Thorns 00:48:43 The Sign: Buds 00:56:03 The Sign: WTFery 01:04:24 The Sign: Final thoughts and Ratings 01:10:02 Outro

The Second Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards are here! In Part 1, Ben and NiNi award the actors and actresses who stood out among a crowded field in 2023. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/740238151164067840/the-viib-awards-acting-by-ben-and-nini?source=share] 00:00 Welcome 01:23 Introduction 04:43 Interlude: Norma's ready for her close-up - Sunset Boulevard (1950) 05:29 Rising Star 08:59 Best Cast 12:49 Best Pair 17:03 Best Actor 19:57 Best Acted Scene 24:10 Best Delivered Line 28:43 Outro

The Second Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards are here! In Part 4, Ben and NiNi award 2023's Best of the Best. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/740530190357331968/the-viib-awards-2024-top-tings?source=share] 00:00 Welcome 01:23 Introduction 02:29 Interlude: The very best in nosy neighbours - Big Eden (2000) 03:02 Best GL 05:03 Best Genre Romance 10:18 Best Workplace Romance 16:02 Best Second Chance Romance 21:20 Best High School Romance 34:45 BL of the Year 40:09 Outro

Korea swung big at the end of the year and hit it out of the park on both the queer romance and queer life drama fronts. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo and Love In The Big City.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Introduction: Let's Talk Hallyu

06:01 Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo

12:36 Taekwondo: Themes and Patterns In Hwang Da Seul's Work

21:54 Taekwondo: The Separation

33:28 Taekwondo: The Reunion

38:22 Taekwondo: On Hyeon Ho

44:57 Taekwondo: Final Thoughts and Ratings

52:33 Love In The Big City

58:46 Love In The Big City Part 1: Mi Ae and the Film Adaptation

01:06:50 Love In The Big City Part 2: Umma and Young Soo

01:17:05 Love In The Big City Part 3: Gyu Ho and Kylie

01:28:31 Love In The Big City Part 4: Habibi and the T-aras

01:40:28 Love In The Big City: Final Thoughts and Ratings

01:48:25 Outro

It’s our holiday special (because it's a holiday somewhere in the world)! Ben, NiNi and assorted friends of the pod look back on 10 years of BL as a genre and talk 10 shows that define the genre for us.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome

00:55 Celebrating the BL Canon: A Retrospective

02:08 Blueming (2022) | KR | dir. Hwang Da Seul (Megan)

07:35 Dark Blue Kiss (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Shan)

13:59 He's Coming To Me (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Captain Hands)

17:00 His (2020) | JP | dir. Imaizumi Rikiya (Twig)

21:12 Light On Me (2021) | KR | dir. Lee Yoo Yeon (Kyra)

25:40 Make It Right (2017) | TH | dirs. New Siwaj Sawatmaneekul and Cheewin Thanamin Wongskulphat (Turtles)

33:29 The Miracle of Teddy Bear (2022) | TH | dir. Paajaew Yuthana Lorphanpaibul (Pluem)

39:52 Theory of Love (2019) | TH | dir. X Nuttapong Mongkolsawas (Bookworm)

46:15 The Untamed (2019) | CH | dirs. Steve Cheng and Chang Ka Lam (Shan)

51:42 We Best Love (2021) | TW | dir. Ray Jiang (Twig)

57:59 Ben and Nini's Drive-by Faves

We gotta clear the decks ahead of the VIIB Awards, so it's a grab bag episode! Ben, NiNi and Shan talk a bunch of shows that we couldn't NOT talk about, and award the fall's Girl You Tried. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/740060316509044737/tens-and-chops-vol-1-a-grab-bag-episode?source=share] 00:01:15 Tens and Chops 00:04:20 Kiseki: Dear To Me 00:12:20 Dangerous Romance 00:26:05 Love In Translation 00:41:14 I Cannot Reach You 00:54:43 My Personal Weatherman 01:07:01 If It's With You 01:15:38 Absolute Zero 01:21:05 My Dear Gangster Oppa 01:33:32 Middleman's Love 01:49:07 Final Thoughts, and Girl, You Tried

The Second Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards are here! In Part 2, Ben and NiNi award the 2023 ships with real wind in their sails. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/740330360977702912/the-viib-awards-2024-ships-ahoy?source=share] 00:00 Welcome 01:23 Introduction 02:19 Interlude: Mr. Darcy proposes - Pride and Prejudice (1995) 03:19 Best Ghost Ship 07:11 Best Friendship 12:10 Best SIde Ship 21:10 Best Main Ship 27:49 Outro

October marks the 3rd anniversary of the show that rewired the BL industry, and it felt like the right time for a retrospective. In part 1 Ben leads a panel talk on I Told Sunset About You. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/731368755449495552/the-itsay-anniversary-show-part-1?source=share] 00:00-Intro 04:16-How did you come to ITSAY? 11:31-Phuket as a setting 19:00-Style and genre 29:40-Characters 36:18-Teh and Oh's dynamic 50:07-Why do you care so much about ITSAY? 01:04:08-Outro

Welcome back, it's spring! Winter once again left us with a lot to ponder, and ponder we shall. Ben and NiNi tease what's in store this season. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/747218135483121664/ben-and-nini-spring-2024-teaser-spring-2024?source=share]

Korea cranked out a bunch of BLs in the spring, and we can't agree on any of them. Ben and NiNi talk All The Liquors, A Shoulder To Cry On, Our Dating Sim and Unintentional Love Story. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/722476492938985472/summer-2023-ep-1-round-1-fight?source=share] 00:00-Welcome 01:02-Intro 02:43-All the Liquors 13:20-A Shoulder to Cry On 31:54-Our Dating Sim 57:25-Unintentional Love Story 01:32:02-Conclusion

The Second Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards are here! In Part 3, Ben and NiNi get nerdy in the episode we look forward to most all year. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/740421559761747968/the-viib-awards-2024-immortal-technique?source=share] 00:00 Welcome 01:23 Introduction 02:34 Interlude: Making a movie, Eddie Mannix style - Hail, Caesar! (2016) 03:57 Best OST Song 10:03 Best Music 16:35 Best Production 22:13 Best Writing 27:17 Best Direction 34:19 Outro

Welcome to our summer series! Spring was a season of challenging and thought-provoking watches, and we're ready to get to talking about them. Here's a little tease of what's in store.

GMMTV's OGs came out to play! Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Cooking Crush, Cherry Magic Thailand and how a decade of experience makes a difference with Off/Gun and Tay/New. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/747834779623391232/the-pillars-the-return-of-offgun-and-taynew?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Intro 00:03:58 Cooking Crush: A surprisingly good romcom 00:08:02 CC: Comedy ain't easy 00:16:59 CC: Dynamite's queer writing and Ten as a rare romantic lead 00:32:08 CC: Final comments and ratings 00:41:14 Cherry Magic Thailand: Beating expectations and simping for Tay Tawan 00:54:13 CMT: Relationship development and the powers 01:02:15 CMT: Other characters 01:13:51 CMT: Ratings 01:19:34 Outro

More takes on the office romance, now with bonus miscommunication! Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk Ayaka Is In Love With Hiroko and At 25:00 In Akasaka.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome
01:16 Intro
02:52 Ayaka Is In Love With Hiroko
10:45 Ayaka: A Split Narrative
17:20 Ayaka: The Negatives
24:25 Ayaka: Final Thoughts and Ratings
29:08 At 25:00 in Akasaka
35:34 At 25:00 in Akasaka: It's the Characters for Us
43:18 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Hayama and Shirasaki
49:05 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Filmmaking and Production
53:25 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Final Thoughts and Ratings
58:45 The State of J-BL

Japan said it's GL time and we said YES. Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk Chaser Game W and She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat. Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/749112935687847936/lets-go-lesbians-a-japanese-gl-episode?source=share] 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:41 Chaser Game W: A Flop 00:18:31 She Loves To Cook, and She Loves To Eat 00:23:14 SLTCSLTE: The Women 00:34:18 SLTCSLTE: Yako and The New House 00:39:17 SLTCSLTE: The Food and Nagumo 00:43:02 SLTCSLTE: Depictions of Intimacy 00:50:53 Final thoughts and Ratings