Specialty Matcha Podcast (Sanko Matcha Products)

If you’re new to matcha, welcome!

If you are already a tea person, we hope you find this article novel in answering the question “what is matcha?”

The following perspectives are based on over two decades of cumulative experience from the team: studying at the Tea Institute at Penn State, hundreds of conversations with experts, travel to origin, and working in product development in the food and beverage industry. So, what is matcha?

https://sanko-cha.com/blogs/third-wave-matcha/what-is-matcha

In this episode, Ryan and Zongjun interview Cole from My Matcha Addiction (IG: @mymatchaaddiction). They discuss the growing matcha community on Instagram, the increase in matcha options, and Cole's journey in creating a matcha-themed Instagram page. The conversation covers the challenges of finding reliable matcha information, surprises from visiting Japanese matcha shops, and topics like matcha cultivation, production, freshness, and the differences between traditional and modern matcha. They also explore experiences with matcha in Japan and the U.S., single origin and single cultivar preferences, and industry challenges and opportunities, including new milling technologies and the need for standardized vocabulary and consumer education.

This conversation explores the current debate about consumers buying scarce matcha powder and mixing it with milk. On one side of the spectrum "let consumers do what they want" and on the other side "consumers are destroying the subtly and nuance that makes high quality matcha incredibly unique". The hosts discuss the ongoing matcha shortage, the implications of the 'ceremonial grade' label, and the evolving landscape of matcha culture as it becomes more mainstream.

Special thanks to Monique from Matcha Moments based in the Philippines, Marc from Ooika based in the US, Cole from My Matcha Addiction based in the US, and Bryan from Matsu Matcha based in Singapore for their perspectives in this episode.

Ceremonial grade matcha is a made-up marketing term and is basically meaningless. The quality variability is enormous from vendor-to-vendor and the terms are completely unregulated. Anyone can use these terms and tea ceremony practitioners are definitely not the gate-keepers of quality that the name implies.

Washing products in a “ceremonial grade” label makes it much more difficult for consumers to differentiate between high and low quality products. Ultimately the classification of “ceremonial grade” commodifies products.

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan Ahn and Zongjun discuss the complexities of matcha product positioning, emphasizing the need for transparency and consumer education. They explore the challenges of top-down positioning in the matcha industry, where consumers often lack the knowledge to make informed decisions. The hosts advocate for a shift towards a more transparent approach that allows consumers to understand the quality and flavor profiles of matcha products, ultimately leading to a more educated consumer base and a healthier market.

The ideas and the products being served at specialty “coffee” cafes is changing. They do not have to be a place where coffee is at the center of the celebration. Tea, in particular matcha, is sharing more and more of the spotlight.

A new generation of suppliers is creating a new set of tools unified by a recognizable design language to signal quality and intention in a matcha program.

In this episode, Ryan and Zongjun explore how a brand influences the perceived quality of matcha. They also outline key criteria that can be used to evaluate matcha quality based on the information provided on its label.

Ryan and Zongjun discuss the very open ended question of "what is high quality matcha?" and the roles of subjective preferences, expert consensus, how quality standards have changed in different industries, and how important consistency is in creating a high quality product.

Ryan and Zongjun discuss the launch of Obsidian, the One-Dimensional Matcha Whicking Bowl as well as questions they have on their matcha learning journey.

In this conversation, Ryan and Sam explore the evolving landscape of fresh-milled matcha, discussing its rise in popularity, the technology behind its milling, and the various consumer perspectives on its quality and flavor. They delve into critiques of fresh-milled matcha, the challenges of maintaining quality, and the future of specialty matcha as an inclusive industry that embraces innovation while respecting tradition.

On this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan and Zongjun interview Marc from Ooika. We discuss sourcing tencha in Japan, milling matcha in the US, and the new wave of single origin and single cultivar matcha companies. Check out Ooika: https://ooika.co/ For more products and content from Sanko check out: www.sankomatcha.com

Ryan and Zongjun talk to friend and former colleague Dr. Yizhou Ma, assistant professor of food process engineering at Wageningen University in the Netherlands. In this episode they discuss matcha from a food science perspective including matcha milling, particle analysis, particle size distributions, morphology, suspensions, and foam formation.

Check out Yizhou's podcast Hood in the Hood:

https://open.spotify.com/show/04rulokx6auswo5gnhOqu9

Ryan and Zongjun discuss techniques for tasting matcha, tea competitions, and the terminology used to describe different flavor profiles.

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan and Sam interview Tom Greese, co-founder of Chaseki, a matcha-focused business in Thailand. Tom shares his journey from the hospitality industry to launching Chaseki, the challenges faced during the COVID-19 pandemic, and the evolution of the matcha market in Thailand. The conversation delves into the importance of educating consumers about matcha cultivars, the growing specialty coffee scene's relationship with matcha, and future plans for Chaseki, including expansion into the US market.

Tom emphasizes the need for a community around matcha and the importance of making quality matcha accessible to everyone.

A technical deep dive into water chemistry and how it forms the foundation of tea flavor and flavor extraction with Founder of Empirical Water, Arby Avanesian.

If you're interested in learning more about water chemistry optimization for tea, check out Empirical Water: https://empiricalwater.com/

How can you trust what's a label? In this episode Ryan and Zongjun attempt to unpack how objective truths are labeled in matcha, gray areas in matcha labeling, and the use of subjective claims that can adorn matcha labels.

Ryan and Zongjun discuss the Specialty Matcha renaissance happening in Thailand. If you're visiting Thailand and would like a list of recommendations please shoot us an email at hello@sanko-cha.com

Ryan and Zongjun talk to John O'Connor, founder if Johnny Matcha. We discuss John's experience working in Major League Baseball, his path to founding Johnny Matcha, building direct relationships with Japanese farmers, and his philosophy of "know the source".

Special thanks to future guest on the Specialty Matcha Podcast Pau from Tea Nursery, and former guests Ian from Yunomi and Cole from My Matcha Addiction.

Marukyu Koyamaen's Announcement:

https://www.marukyu-koyamaen.co.jp/information/apology-and-notice-regarding-to-quantity-limit-restriction-on-matcha-products-and-the-current-situation/

https://www.teanursery.com/

https://yunomi.life/

https://mymatchaaddiction.com/

Matcha labeling is confusing, perhaps more confusing than any other specialty product. Pick any two random matcha powders from most Japanese or western vendors and it will be very difficult to differentiate them. They’ll use vague language, poetic names, and unclearly specified product details.

In this episode, Ryan and Zongjun deep dive into a multi-part series discussion about matcha labeling.

Ryan and Zongjun discuss the fact that when a consumer or a business purchases matcha, it's still an unfinished product. Preparation skill and care are the last mile in determining resulting matcha quality.

Apologies for the spotty audio quality, we had some technical difficulties when recording. You can find a full video version of this podcast with correct subtitles on Youtube.

In this episode, we're excited to welcome Jev from MTCH, a contemporary matcha bar in Bangkok, Thailand. MTCH has played a pivotal role in our matcha journey on the Specialty Matcha Podcast and has been a major source of inspiration for our broader company, Sanko Matcha Products.

Ryan and Zongjun welcome Monique from Matcha Moments. Monique shares insights into the growing matcha culture in the Philippines, her Urasenke practice, educating consumers about high-quality matcha, and the importance of local cafes in promoting specialty matcha.

Instagram: @matchamoments.ph

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan and Zongjun explore their recent experiences in Tokyo, focusing on the cultural significance of kissaten coffee shops and their influence on the specialty coffee movement, in particular at Blue Bottle. They discuss the parallels between coffee and matcha, emphasizing the importance of hospitality, intentionality, and consumer experience. The conversation highlights lessons that the matcha industry can learn from the evolution of specialty coffee, as well as the potential for innovation in both fields.

On this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, hosts Ryan and Zongjun talk to Jacque from Jacque and Matcha based in Manila, the Philippines. We discuss pop ups, the rise of specialty matcha, Filipino matcha preferences and the launch of her new brand.

Ryan and Zongjun discuss designing and manufacturing, Obsidian, the one-dimensional matcha whisking bowl, as well as other products on their roadmap.

In his book “Crossing the Chasm”, Geoffrey A. Moore lays out a framework whereby mainstream consumers adopt new technologies. He segments buyers into “visionaries” and “pragmatists”, between which resides “the chasm” of adoption that all products must cross before fully entering the mainstream.

Matcha visionaries went out of their way to source and prepare matcha. They tolerated inconveniences and lack of transparency, and paid the price for what is now considered an inferior quality product, after innovation in the mainstream worked its magic to make matcha better, cheaper, and easier to source and prepare.

Matcha pragmatists come in many flavors. They’re everyday consumers who don’t like the taste of coffee and want another caffeinated beverage option. They’re people who are more sensitive to the crash or jitters of caffeine and are looking for the functional benefits matcha offers. They’re people who are looking to introduce better-for-you products. They’re people that are really into tea.

Ryan and Zongjun discuss founding Sanko Matcha Products and their origin story.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7406592/

Ryan and Zongjun recorded this episode in Japan and shared their experiences buying matcha retail in Kyoto and Uji. They dive into product positioning, how information is communicated to consumers, and compare the flavor profile of the cheapest and most expensive matcha they could find.

Episode Summary:
Ryan Ahn and Zongjun (Sam) Li explore how specialty matcha can go mainstream, drawing lessons from specialty coffee. They discuss the role of major brands, the need for consumer education, quality standards, and innovative preparation methods to grow the global matcha community.

Hosts Ryan and Zongjun interview matcha product developer and food scientist, Patrick Penny. The scope of this wide-ranging interview covers matcha as a specialty product, the perception of matcha by Japanese consumers, and the importance of freshness.

We're officially 25 episodes in and we're calling that the end of Season 1! The entire team at Sanko matcha products reflects on season 1. Stay tuned for Season 2 starting next week!

https://sankomatcha.com/

In this episode, Ryan Ahn and Zongjun (Sam) Li explore the concept of authenticity, particularly in the context of matcha and tea culture. They discuss how the term 'authenticity' can be problematic, often used as a weapon to police others' practices, and how it creates a fear of judgment that stifles innovation. The conversation delves into the contradictions between tradition and modernity, the implications of cultural appropriation, and the double standards faced by different cultural practices. Ultimately, they advocate for a more personal and subjective understanding of authenticity, encouraging listeners to focus on their own preferences and experiences rather than external judgments.

In this episode, cohosts Ryan and Zongjun record directly in Uji after visiting several family owned and operated multi-generational tea farms. We share our notes and reactions from everything we learned and experienced. Topics range from the distinction between Uji Matcha vs Matcha from Uji, tencha fertilization practices, and industry power dynamics.

In this episode Ryan and Zongjun had the opportunity to interview Bryan Ong, the Founder of Matsu Matcha based in Singapore. The conversation spanned across many topics including the current matcha landscape in Singapore, building a matcha brand, matcha evaluation techniques and even digital advertising strategies.

https://www.instagram.com/matsu_matcha/

https://matsumatcha.com/

This conversation delves into the intricate science of matcha whisking, exploring its cultural significance, preparation methods, and the sensory experience it offers. Hosts Ryan and Zongjun discuss the unique properties of matcha as a suspension, the challenges of achieving the perfect foam, and the evolution of matcha consumption from traditional ceremonies to modern-day practices. They also touch on the subjective nature of quality in matcha and the need for innovation in its preparation.

Knowledge structures are the scaffolding where we interpret new information, make judgments learn to ask questions. How much information is necessary to fully learn and appreciate something? How do most new matcha consumers construct their own knowledge structures?

https://sanko-cha.com/blogs/third-wave-matcha/knowledge-structures

Welcome to Season 2 of the Specialty Matcha Podcast!

We have a very special guest and friend Aislynn van Clief to talk about tea ceremony and Japanese philosophy.

https://www.fudo-an.com/

Matcha is a suspension of microscopic particles, usually with a thick head of froth. Left to time, the particles sink to the bottom and the foam disappears. The rate of decline is determined by the whisking skill and the quality of the tea.

https://sanko-cha.com/blogs/third-wave-matcha/the-science-of-whisking-matcha

The future of matcha is specialty. Matcha isn’t matcha isn’t matcha—there will be a future where consumers from Dubai to Paris and from Bangkok to LA will have acquired preferences for Uji vs. Yame matcha, or Asahi vs. Yabukita cultivar, or fresh vs. preground matcha. As the mystery and mastery of producing matcha becomes better understood by mainstream non-Japanese markets, demand for specialty products will follow.

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan Ahn and Zongjun Li interview Jules Reyes, a seasoned matcha expert with over a decade of experience. Jules shares her journey into the matcha industry, her role in building community events, and her experience scaling the Jade Leaf Matcha. The conversation delves into the importance of customer connection and the evolving landscape of matcha education. Jules emphasizes the need for transparency in the industry and offers advice for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to enter the matcha market.

Jules is the creator if Instagram pages @matcha.sf @matcha.la @matcha.nyc

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan Ahn and Zongjun (Sam) Li delve into the complexities and confusions surrounding poetic matcha names. They discuss how these names can mislead consumers, the cultural context of matcha consumption, and the need for transparency in the industry. The conversation highlights the potential harm to consumers and farmers alike, as well as the importance of evolving the naming conventions to better serve a modern audience. The hosts advocate for a shift towards more descriptive and transparent labeling to enhance consumer understanding and appreciation of matcha.

https://kyotojournal.org/tea-food-2/much-ado-about-matcha/

Modern advancements in farming, breeding, and production reveal that matcha is far from being a relic of the past—it is a dynamic and evolving tradition. Although the matcha enjoyed today differs from what earlier generations experienced, it maintains a lineage of ongoing development. These changes arise from the interplay of industry, market forces, and culture, creating a vibrant and interconnected community that continually influences and redefines itself.

This adaptability is what defines matcha’s authenticity. Authenticity isn’t about freezing traditions in time but about a culture’s capacity to evolve, grow, and stay relevant. Matcha’s true authenticity lies in its transformation, not in clinging to a fixed, idealized version of the past.

https://omsom.com/blogs/second-menu/how-calling-for-authenticity-can-be-a-burden?srsltid=AfmBOop7WVHOrUMzY6UuV2vxfxnIIm6DcROU60Mjn1Pw7ADtqJZW4-Ux

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3dGSrCp4Y8RVzqL96MBkNp?si=b77ed26e223e43b6

Ryan and Zongjun recorded this podcast episode during their sourcing trip to Japan and share there notes and experiences.

Ryan and Zongjun recorded this episode "in the field" during their tencha sourcing trip in Japan. In this episode they discuss differences between Uji and Yame as tea production areas. Some topics discussed are: honzu shading, ishi usu vs ball milling, hika aroma ("fire" or "roasted" aroma), hoshino yame matcha, and technology in tencha processing.

If you're interested in the Fukuoka tea tourism map, please reach out to us directly on Instagram or on our website.

Ryan and Zongjun, cofounders of Sanko Matcha Products, discuss the rise of specialty matcha and the consumer journey of acquiring new preferences.

Ryan and Zongjun talk to Ian Chun from Yunomi.life to discuss his journey in the tea industry and the work he does to support Japanese tea farmers. He shares the challenges faced by small-scale farmers and the impact of the global market on the tea industry. The conversation also touches on the quality and preferences of matcha, the shift towards ready-made drinks, and the decline of tea culture in Japan.

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, hosts Ryan Ahn and Zongjun Li reflect on their journey in the matcha industry, discussing their startup vision, the cultural significance of matcha, and the challenges faced in the market, particularly the ongoing matcha shortage. They emphasize the importance of community engagement, feedback, and the need for innovation in the matcha supply chain. The episode also highlights goals for the future and a call for anyone interested in becoming an early adaptor of our fresh ground matcha mill.

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan and Zongjun interview David Lavecchia, co-founder of Tezumi, a company specializing in specialty Japanese tea and teaware.

They discuss the founding of Tezumi, the challenges of sourcing, and the importance of transparency in the tea industry. The conversation also explores the complexities and heritage of zairai (seed-grown tea), the evolution matcha milling, the role of the chashi (tea blenders), lost matcha production methods, the sen-Senke, samurai warrior class schools including David's school Ueda Sōko-ryū, and Tezumi's content creation process.

https://www.tezumi.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@tezumitea

Ryan and Zongjun interview Ricardo from My Japanese Green Tea. They discuss the mission behind the My Japanese Green Tea blog and podcast, which is to get more people interested in Japanese tea. They also talk about the rise of matcha and the transformation happening in the matcha industry, with more vendors offering single origin and single cultivar matcha.

https://www.myjapanesegreentea.com/

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan and Zongjun welcome Pau from Tea Nursery to discuss his journey as a tea farmer in Wazuka, the intricacies of tea farming, and the importance of cultivars. Paul shares insights from his experiences in Japan, detailing the seasonal challenges of tea farming and the significance of cultivar development. The conversation also touches on the role of geography in tea cultivation and the complexities of cultivar registration system in Japan.

The following cultivars were mentioned but not by name in this episode:

Yumesumika ゆめすみか

Shizuyutaka しずゆたか

https://www.teanursery.com/

In this conversation, Ryan and Nicole from Tea for Me Please discuss the evolution of matcha in the US, the impact of influencer culture on tea, and the importance of building relationships within the tea community. They explore the challenges of maintaining consumer interest in tea, the role of online communities, and the future trends in the matcha landscape, including the growing demand for transparency and quality in matcha products.

https://www.teaformeplease.com/

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan Ahn and ZongjunLi explore the rich history and cultural significance of matcha . They discuss the origins of tea, the evolution of matcha production, and the impact of historical events on its consumption. The conversation delves into the mythical stories surrounding tea, the development of the Japanese tea ceremony, and contemporary critiques of its practice. They also address the globalization of matcha, the specialty matcha movement, and the complexities of cultural appropriation in today's society. The episode concludes with reflections on the future of matcha as both a traditional and innovative product.

This episode references the book Making Tea, Making Japan by Kristin Surak.

https://www.sup.org/books/asian-studies/making-tea-making-japan

Ryan and Zongjun discuss the concept of a specialty product. They explore the ambiguity of terms and the variance of answers when it comes to defining specialty products - with no surprises, there is no "right answer."

They also discuss the evolution of specialty products and how they have transitioned from niche categories to mainstream products. This episode touches on the role of storytelling, sustainability, and direct communication between farmers and consumers in the specialty product movement.

In this episode of the Specialty Matcha Podcast, Ryan and Zongjun delve into the often-overlooked tensions between the values that shape how matcha is sourced and marketed. They argue that it’s in the compromises vendors make—whether in pursuit of tradition, product quality, or prestige—that their core values are most clearly revealed. This conversation unpacks the friction between consumer preferences, product quality, sustainability, support for Japanese tea farms, reverence for tea ceremony traditions, and matcha’s reputation as a health product. What happens when these priorities collide? And what does it say about the choices we make as producers, sellers, and drinkers of matcha?

In this episode, Ryan and Zongjun (Sam) Li share their experiences and insights from their recent trip to Uji, Izumo City, and Yame. They discuss the unique practices of tea farmers, the intricacies of tea processing, and the differences between artisanal and industrial matcha production. The conversation also touches on the impact of matcha's growing popularity, the challenges faced by small farmers, and the future of matcha sourcing and innovation.