Shoot to the Top (Sam Hollis)

The Royal Photography Society
This week Marcus is doing the show solo, without Sam, and talking to Dr Michael Pritchard from the Royal Photography Society(RPS).  
Michael’s story

Photography has been something Michael has been involved in since he was 11  years old.  He started working as a Saturday boy in a professional studio in the late 70s. The studio did a wide range of different work from weddings, studio and commercial work. He also got to work in the black and white darkroom. This really sparked Michael’s passion for photography. They allowed him to do his own work there, using the professional dark room.

Michael went to university, but would always come back in the holidays and do more work and use the dark room. He started to develop a love of the history of photography and joined the RPS as a junior member as he wanted access to the historical group within the society. He used to go to the RPS’s London location in London and meet with the historical group.
Michael got a job at Christie’s as they knew of his historical knowledge of cameras and photographs. He was organising auctions at Christie’s. Michael learnt a huge amount about the history of photography through this work.  Michael still now has a small amount of historical cameras which he still uses from time to time. He worked in Christie’s for about 20 years. He then moved to do a Phd in the history of photography. While there he still did some work from Christie’s and for the British Library who had gained the Kodak library and needed help organising it.

Michael also did some teaching at DeMontford university on a module on the history of photography. Then in 2011 as he was finishing his Phd he was approached about applying for a role of the RPS as director general. Since then the role has been split in two and he then moved to the programs and education side of the role.

What does the RPS do for photographers?

The RPS is a registered charity and a membership organisation. There ultimate goal is member education, helping them become better photographers. Most members of the RPS are amateur, although some are professional. Some photographers get letters after their name showing their work has been recognised by the RPS. The RPS has a journal the has been going for over 150 years. The RPS do a lot of work with the local universities. The RPS has moved from Bath to Bristol. The Bristol location gives them a large exhibition space and an auditorium. Their exhibition changes every year, but some of the work can date back to the start of the RPS. The RPS is a community of people, about ten thousand members. Part of the RPS’s work is building that community. Michael also reminds us that photography should be fun and sometimes we can forget this.

Artificial intelligence

Marcus asked Michael about AI. The RPS has issued a statement about AI.
Generative AI is something the RPS is wrestling with. The RPS doesn’t see AI generated images as photography. There is also the use of AI in software. So the software in your smartphone, the software in photoshop all uses AI. The RPS is comfortable about most of that, be it autofocus, setting enhancement etc. But then this software is starting to go forward doing things like replacing the sky. That is then an issue as it is no longer really a photograph. The RPS is actively wrestling with these issues. A lot of photographers are already using AI in their practice and Michael thinks it is better to work with AI than fight against it, but within certain parameters. He sees no reason why photographers can’t embrace it into their practice, as they did with digital when that came out.

In this show we talk to Colin D Smith who is an expert in listening. A skill we have talked about many times in the show.

Listening makes people feel needed and valued. It is something that can be learnt either through coaching in group settings or 121. Even though most people think they are good listeners in reality very few people have the skills to do it well. And this is reflected in society with a rise in loneliness and sadly suicide rates.

Colin goes on to say the importance of using open ended questions

“how do you feel about that?”

“ interesting, what more do you want to say about that?”

Sam poses the question of how can we use this in our business, in particular networking.

Good listening can results in building trust and be more likeable. So when dealing with customers get them to open up with open questions, exploring different options. And if you become a better listener your clients will in turn listen closer to you. It's a win win!

Colin believes deeper listening can be learnt. Clear away distractions, go in to your discussions with a settled mind and be more in the present. Avoid interrupting, stop trying to fix things, don’t be an eighteen second manager.

Colin goes on to re-enforce the quality of being present. Think along the lines of becoming a listener as to doing it.  Take a three second pause after the other person has finished speaking, observe their body movements. Listen for key phrases

“I have never told this to someone before”

Marcus brings up non verbal conversations. Eye contact, facing people during conversations, equality of viewpoints all contribute to the effectiveness of listening.

In times where you have to get to know people quickly, head shots, for example, it is important to get yourself centered before and during the event. Keep a calm demeanor in spite of everything.

Good listening skills will make your clients feel that they have the right person on the job.

You can contact Marcus

colin.smith@dexteritysolutions.co.uk

https://dexteritysolutions.co.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/colindsmith1

07939-013651

Getting found on Google is important for most businesses. For many types of photography businesses, it can make the difference between a successful and failed business. For photographers moving up the Google ranking can be easier than for other businesses. You tend to be only competing on a local level with other photographers. There are no big regional and national players to complete with. As Sam says you only have to be better than the people around you.

We go through a few important things to think about for SEO.

1. What  words and phrases do you want to be found for and where do you want to be found for them? As we have discussed on other shows ( Ep 5 Generalise or Specialise) having a niche will help, as all your content will be focused on one area of photography.
2. Technically your website needs to be error free  and well setup with correct use of page titles, meta descriptions and other technical details. Google Search Console is a free platform that can help you with some of this.
3. Visitor numbers. It’s a bit of a Catch 22 but visitor numbers are a key metric Google uses when judging how useful your website is. If Google sees lots of engaged visit to your website, it’s thinks it must be useful. So, sends more people there. You need a plan to getting visitors to your site. Giveaways and great content on your site are you friends here. You then need a place to send them from social media, paid ads and an email list are great ways to do this.
4. Backlinks These are links from other websites to your website. These a great way of moving up the Google ranking, especially when the back linked sites are of a high quality/value. A great tip is to get a free listing on business directories. Also produce great content that others will want to link to.  
5. Content is key. If your site contains engaging, unique, useful content that’s really important. It engages visitors and tells Google what you do.  You can also create blogs specifically to help with SEO on specific search terms. Creating blogs that answer your potential clients questions is a good place to start. Sam has a great blog about blogging here.
6. Engagement or “bounce rate” is important so have a site that is rich in information, easy to navigate and engaging. Bounce rate is simply a measure of how many people leave your site without interacting with it. Don’t worry, lots of people do this. Some people are simply in the wrong place, and others simply wanted your phone number, so have no need to interact.

We go on to discuss the use of AI content engines such as Chat GPT and how this may effect your SEO.  Marcus’ dream where unique images on your websites will have a positive effect on SEO still seems a long way off!

SEO part III on site SEO

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠⁠⁠⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠01482 765871⁠

This follows SEO part one, which as about planning and SEO part two, which was about work external to your website. That leaves this show, SEO III on site SEO. The first thing to do is ensure you have competed part one and part two. So if you have not listened to those shows and planned your keywords then do that now.

Once you have done the planning and looked at your external SEO the next most important thing is creating content. Good engaging content. But initially Sam goes through some other areas of SEO.

• You need to make sure your site is fast, otherwise Google will suppress your search results. Use a speed test website to check this
• Ensure your site works and doesn’t contain broken links.
• Make sure you have meta-descriptions in place. These are simply descriptions of the page that Google uses.
• Have alt-tags for your images. These help visually impaired people and it helps Google understand your images.
• Have a site map. You need to submit this to Google Search Console.
• Organisation of pages and menus. These need to be organised into a clear structure. For example have different services as sub-pages to the main service page.

Marcus asked about websites using only images and not text. Sam said for SEO this is a really bad idea, These sites will not do well in the Google search.

Content

Use one key word or page on one page. That work better than having a single page trying to focus on several key words. When you focus on one word / phrase you can ensure that you include it in the text, in the title, in the meta-description and in the alt texts. But they need to be used sparingly. Google doesn’t like the keyword / phrase used too much within the text. Think about internal links, so can this content link to other content within your site. External links are important too.
Tools
If you have a WordPress site Yoast is a free tool that helps you with your SEO. It checks keyword density, content structure and assesses the complexity of content. You can also check your writing on the Hemmingway app. This helps keep your writing simple.

Structuring
Structuring your content really helps Google and people navigate your content easily. You can use paragraphs, bullet points, headers and more. Headers are number for importance from 1 to 6. Only use one H1 header per page.
Refocus your existing pages and blogs
Content doesn’t just need to be new. If you now have keywords you want to be found for you could adjust content you already have to help it focus on these keywords.

Data
Make sure you keep an eye on the data. Google Search Console and Google Analytics will help with this. Use this to see if your SEO work is increasing traffic to your website.

The first Shoot to the Top Webinar is on the 2nd of April and it’s all about getting higher value clients for your business. ⁠⁠⁠To find out more and book click here.⁠⁠⁠

After school, Andrew worked for an advertising agency. In2002, he bought a camera, having hardly taken a photo since he was young. That camera rekindled his interest. But he said that he still had a fear of taking photographs of people. And when he went to a local camera club recently, he found that was what they were afraid of too. He found a course by Annabel Williams and did a one-day course with her.  After that, he found out he had some clients, got a grant, and signed up for Annabel’s course for a year. Andrew says his pictures were images which people were a part of, rather than a photo of them. He loved Robert Dawson's work . And Willy Ronis. He likes the way they present people in a big scene.

Sam asks about repeat clients as he seems to have lots ofthem. He talks about a client where he keeps going back and doing portraits as the family grows. He went to the house recently and it was full of his pictures. Andrew says the main thing he likes is photographing people, for personal or commercial use.
Sam brings up that Andrew has several websites with different brands and asks how he manages this. Andrew says that he is found online regularly. He says this is because he provides relevant content to the relevant audience. He says that his specific websites only have relevant photos. He then also has landing pages for all of the relevant local towns. Andrew is also blogging a lot on all of his websites.
Andrew’s other routes to market are networking. He says that this is a slow burn, but he gets work because he gets customers who have a connection who know, like and trust Andrew. He also uses artisan makers as a route to market. Hesays customers at artisan makers markets have money to invest in things they like, which could include photography.

To get the Shoot to the Top Podcast in your inbox every week to ensure you don't miss an episode,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠click here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

You can connect with Andrew on LinkedIn here

"In today’s business world, a great headshot is essential for personal branding and making the right impression. My team of assistants, makeup artists, and stylists work with me toensure every client looks their best and feels confident in front of the camera." - Andrew Collier

Next week Sam will guide us through the journey of setting up a subscription service. He'll talk about the why, the how, and the marketing. Marcus and Sam will explain how it has worked for them in their business and how it can work for you.

Subscriptions are a great way of getting regular income.That means every month you know you have a certain amount that will land in your bank account, without fail, before you've lifted a finger. They ensure that you are constantly in your client’s mind, which is great for getting referrals. Subscription services are not that common in the photography industry, which means setting one up will make you stand out from the crowd.

From a client's point of view, subscriptions are a great way to make ensure their images are seasonal or topical. As a photographer you get to know your clients well and what they need. We discuss the practicalities of running a subscription service. Go Cardless is a nice simple way to setup direct debits. ⁠https://gocardless.com/⁠

News of the day, the Gen Z Shake, it's a thing!

⁠https://petapixel.com/2023/03/23/the-gen-z-shake-is-the-telltale-way-young-people-film-videos/⁠

Robin Thompson says he is an IT stress reliever working with small and medium-sized businesses helping ensure that their IT is not causing them stress. Sam and Robin have known each other for a long time having started their business at a similar time and having run a networking event together.

Robin’s journey into IT has been an interesting one. As a child of the 80s he has been using computers since he was a child. Robin spent ten years in financial services and then moved to working in higher education. He did do some first line IT support as part of his role. But also did things like exam timetables for the University of Hull. At one stage Robin was offered the opportunity to take voluntary redundancy from the University, At the same time Helen his wife and co-director was between jobs and so they decided to take the redundancy and setup the business.

Sam asks what photographers need to think about in terms of their IT. Robin says for those in creative industries you will need high spec equipment and lots of processing power. Backing up your data is an important thing to think about. But due to the file sizes that photographers deal with are very large so that cloud storage can start to get very expensive. Robin suggests one way of doing this is having project files on cloud storage, but use external hard drives to backup the raw photo files. Backblaze is  service that some photographers use as the storage is a lot cheaper than Google or Microsoft cloud storage.
In terms of security Robin says the built in security has got a lot better over the years on Windows computers. He also reminds us that Macs, contrary to popular opinion, can get viruses. They can also pass viruses onto Windows computer and it is not good for your business if you accidentally pass viruses onto customers, so ensure macs have 3rd party anti-virus software on them.
Robin says domains and emails are also important. Some small businesses use Gmail or Hotmail addresses for their business and this does not look very professional. Then have a professional email system around that, that will scan incoming and outgoing emails. Spoofing is a challenge at the moment (spoofing is someone pretending to be someone else). Good email scanning will deal with this. On top of this email marketing needs a domain based email address.
Because we do have problems like spoofing there are now systems in place to prevent this. But this does also mean it can be harder to deliver genuine email. When properly setup this isn’t a problem, but setting up email accounts correctly is correct.

Robin explains that backups are much more than photos. Emails, invoices, contact information and more, all needs backing up. If these aren’t backed up it could cost you your business.
Robin has used photography in his business and he says you can tell when photography has been done professionally. Robin had the opportunity to be in a magazine with a focus on his wife in the business. They got professional photography for that and thought the results were excellent. Although you can take photos with a phone, it is not the same.

Sam asked Robin to share his experience of using professional photographers. Robin thinks that initial conversation, before the photo shoot is very important. It’s a careful balance of  the photographer providing expertise and suggestions with listening. Also many people are very uncomfortable in front of the camera and so making people at their ease in front of the lens is important. He likes the idea of a retainer for photographers but doesn’t work on that basis with his photographer.

This week Sam and Marcus talk to Gemma Griffiths.

Gemma is a branding and family photographer based in South Wales. She has 16 years experience in the industry. She offers bespoke personal branding shoots, headshot shoots and family photoshoots in lots of fabulous locations around South Wales. Gemma also offers photography training for beginners and professional photographers too. You can book a one to one training session or join one of her group workshops

We take Gemma back to the start of her career when she started, as a travel photographer. She then switched into portraits and weddings. after taking some photography courses. It’s a full time job for her and now focusses her attention on branding photography.

Gemma was drawn to working with businesses due to the flexibility and more creative approach. Her practice has grown organically even during the Covid crisis. Generally working with solopreneurs she showcases services and products and really gets across the USP of every business.

Gemma works mainly on location and works closely with the client to build up the direction of the photoshoot she is very ”client led”. Showing personalities of the business owners as well as their skills.

Coming up with the concept is very appealing to Gemma and loves coming up with ideas as well as helping put into vision clients own ideas as well.

Having been one Linkedin for a couple of years Gemma is fascinated by ow her clients and others use photographic imagery on-line. Whether it be for testimonials and quotes, advertise their services and products.

Aiming to deliver 100-150 images per shoot, she encourages her clients to have multiple wardrobe changes to get maximum value. Sam goes on to discuss extra services that can be offered by photographers: banners, reels and so on. For Gemma her clients are quite savvy in doing this and Marcus does offer extra services to his subscription clients.

 Marcus asks how she manages her two different client groups business clients and personal clients. She does this by setting up different social media accounts and  splitting up her website accordingly. Linkedin for business and families on Facebook.

As we close the show we discuss camera equipment. Gemma shoots on a mirrorless Sony and usually uses 35mm and 85mm lenses, Lightroom for editing and Photoshop for deeper edits.

Marcus used film for fifteen years. He thinks using film will develop your technique. He says it is magical seeing your own photo being developed on a dark room. Film slows you down and makes you think. Also black and white film will make you appreciate black and white photography and help you with your digital black and white images.

If you want to buy a film camera they have got more expensive than they used to be as they are becoming popular with collectors. A film camera may be around £250. Marcus says films start at around £6 a roll. Marcus doesn’t see the point of using colour film for this. He thinks the key is using black and white and developing it yourself.
Marcus says that Nikon F-Mounts mean that you can use modern lenses on an old body. That isn’t the same with all manufacturers. To develop film you also need some equipment and you can get this quite cheaply on ebay.  
To develop an image the film needs to go into a light tight tank and have some chemicals added. After a few minutes the film will be developed. Marcus says this needs to be done in a light tight room or a bag. The rooms doesn’t have to be 100% dark. Marcus used to use his cupboard under the stairs at night.  After it’s developed the film is washed and then needs to be dried out. At this point the work can be done in light. Most of creativity is done when printing images, but there is some creative things you can do at this development stage.
The rest of the work needs a dark room, but you can have a red light bulb so you can see what you are doing. You can use a room in your house or clubs and local colleges may have dark rooms you can use. You do need an enlarger which is a more expensive piece of kit. But you can rent them and get them second hand on ebay.
Printing the image involves 3 trays, each with different chemicals in. Marcus used to do this on an ironing board. Once you start this process there is lots of things you can control, for example the contrast. There is then dodging and burning which is about making different parts of the image darker or lighter. You can actually add colour tints as well such as sepia. And then finally the paper choice itself makes a difference the end result. Marcus says the development process is an experience in itself which is worth doing. He says having to pay for every shot on the film makes you slow down and think carefully.

Nathan Pidd and Mike Robertson are VIP Creative. Together they run a video and photography business in Hull. Nathan had been doing photography as long as he can remember. He met Mike through a mutual friend and Mike helped on Nathan’s first wedding. In the business they have now, Nathan heads the photography side and Mike heads the video side. After three years of running the business alongside full time jobs, they decided to run the business full time. 

Nathan explains his training was through a fine art degree that then moved into lens media and really enjoyed using Photoshoot. After university he ended up opening up a print shop at the university and then also started teaching at the university.
Sam asked how they managed with running a business after all of the focus on creativity at university. Mike says the accounts and marketing is something they have always struggled with. So their marketing does takes a back seat. They do outsource some things like accounts.
Mike says when they started out they thought they would be able to finish early and work three days a week. But now he finds he works much longer hours than he ever has done before, but he enjoys it. Nathan says he was scared to be a photographer by himself, so having Mike alongside him make that move much easier for him. Nathan says it’s great as they both have different skills.
Sam asks if they have advice for others thinking of setting up a business as partners. Mike says they have creative differences and that can cause problems. You have to also make sure you get on really well as you will be tested on the way. Although you will have differences you have to agree on the core of the business. Mike also says think is this the person I can manage with when the going gets tough.
Marcus asks if they have a niche and they say no. They work with a variety of businesses across video and photography. With their time in the industry they have done a wide range of things. Mike thinks this helps to maintain their creativity.  Nathan says they also enjoy the challenge of doing different things from one day to the next.

Marcus asks about their setup. Nathan says he is a “lighting nut” and that’s the first thing he focusses in on set. They also use the lighting for their video work as well as the photography. They also work together, so most projects they do together as a team. On site they work together and tend to have specific roles that they automatically get on with. They say their knowledge of sound and lighting means that the videos they produce have very high production values.
Sam asks how they persuade people to use them and not their phone to make videos. Mike says the client needs to appreciate what they do, so they see the value. Mike also says they need to do both. Take photos and videos on your phone, but then also have the higher quality professional photos and videos too.
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Fabienne is a property stylist who works with Airbnb owners. She loves to create an original, playful property. She helps their AirBnb stand out online. She loves to go crazy with paint and then build on the “fluff” from there.
Fabienne has to think not just about the look of the property, but she also has to ensure it works. Once a visitor arrives it’s vital the property works for them. Fabienne is finding that AirBnb has got so competitive in the last year that property owners need to stand out much more than they needed to before. Even in the last year Liverpool Airbnb properties have more than doubled. Fabienne’s mission in life is to avoid the use of grey in these properties.
For Fabienne the photography of the property is vital as that is what is used to get the property on AirBnb. Choosing the right photographer for this work is essential. Just seeing which photographer is available is not the way to go. Property investors need to choose the right photographer for them. Without the right photographs most of Fabienne’s work is wasted. Fabienne thinks that lots of photographers want the photographs to look clean and fresh, while Fabienne usually wants photographs to make the property look warm and welcoming. Marcus explains this would mean using natural light and lights in the room, rather than using large bright flash lighting. Fabienne has had some poor experience with photographers. For example the colours in the room being altered or almost lost.

We discussed what is the best way for someone to choose a photographer in this case. She thinks a conversation with the photographer and being able to view their past work are key. She explains that also a great photographer amplified her work making it look amazing due to the photographers skill. Fabienne does have some clients using their phone not a professional photographer for the photographs, but this is quite unusual. Most do use a professional photographer.
Properties for sale often use very wide lenses to make rooms look large. Fabienne thinks this can also work in an AirBnb. But it needs to not make the room look too big, as it has to match the reality for when visitors arrived. But, Fabienne said she has never seen a negative review where a visitor complained about the size of a room compared to the image.
The wording used for the property is vital. The wording must include lots of feeling about the property.
Fabienne explains that there are many property investment groups on Facebook and these are a great place for property photographers to be. Fabienne has her own group which you can find here.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/propertystagingforinvestors

But don’t just sell on these groups. Add value and help people.  

You can connect with Fabienne here.

https://fabienne-interiors.co.uk/

fabienne@fabienne-interiors.co.uk
https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabienne-miler-%E2%98%80%EF%B8%8Fproperty-stylist-to-make-rooms-work-harder%E2%98%80%EF%B8%8F-0b35554/

Marcus and Sam are taking a look at the advantages and disadvantages of niching. How it looks to the client and how it helps in your own marketing.

We discuss the fear factor of possibly losing out on clients outside your niche, and how social media has opened up the market to a global one. However, being a generalist does have its advantages, especially when starting out  - it is a great way of broadening your skills. Learn product photography, location photography and studio photography.

Sam and Marcus go on to discuss the equipment required and how specialists can buy specialised equipment. Niching doesn’t mean you have to turn down work - you may just not publicise it.

 This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠01482 765871⁠

This week Sam is talking about using Google Business and Google maps for your business. Google maps is great for photographers, as most photographers want local clients. Google maps is the app we all know where you can find your nearest hairdresser, or photographer. Google maps gets it's information from Google business, or Google my business as it used to be known. Google business is a system that is free to use and easy to setup. It gives your business a pin on Google maps, information on Google maps and information about your business appears on the right hand side during a desktop Google search. For photographers that work all over the country Google maps isn’t that useful. But, for those wanting local clients it is very valuable and can get you a lot of local leads.
If you get your Google maps account setup correctly it can delivery a lot of leads.
Location

For most photographers the location for your business is their house. For a few it is a studio, but most are home based. If your home is in a large urban area, like Marcus here in Bristol, then your location really helps as you have lots of potential leads nearby. If you live out in the sticks it is more challenging for Google maps to deliver good results for you. If your location is in the middle of no where one option is to pay for a local virtual address in a local urban area. You can often pay co-working spaces or accountants for a virtual address service.
Name
If your business name has photographer in the name that really helps. Fancy names are a nice idea in theory, but if your business has photographer, or something like brand photographer in the name that will really help you getting found on maps.

Category
Google business gives you a choice primary and secondary categories and you need to think carefully before choosing these. If you are a general photographer then your main category is photographer. You can then add other sub-categories for the types of photography you offer.  But if you are a wedding photographer you may want wedding photographer as your main category. The key is plan this carefully. Also some types of photography, such as brand photography are not categories that exist.

Review
These are really important. Get customers to leave reviews for you on Google. This is very important for Google maps and SEO in general. Lots of reviews and recent reviews are really important.  Keep pestering your customers to give them reviews. Do not simply ask once and forget about it. Keep asking until they leave you one. If you search for ‘photographers’ in your area in Google maps, most of the photographers there will have lots of reviews.

Services
This is important. Get all of your services onto Google business. List as many as you can. And for every service use all the space that is available in the description. You can break your services down into sub services to add more.
Photographs
Adding photographs in Google maps as a photographer is essential. Add as many as you like.
Description

You get to add a large description of your business. Use all the space you have available. Think carefully about what you say.
Posts
You can post on Google maps. It seems odd and gets almost no interaction. But, it means when people find you on Google maps they can see recent content from you. It also helps you getting found.

Look at your competition

Look at the other photographers locally, see what their Google business account is like. Then work on your to make it better than theirs

Google search
Remember your entry in Google maps will show up in a standard Google search as well as Google maps search.

She helps people who have got to a point in mid life when they start ask who they are and what are they doing. Her job is about finding what really fires people up and she helps them identify that and helps them make the change towards doing what they want. “Life is an illusion of your own creation” How do you see your own life?
Marcus asks what she means by mid life. Sarah says it’s the forty to sixty age bracket officially, but it’s also about mind set and where we are. And Sam commented that this is linked to children leaving home. Sarah says this is a time when people can lose themselves. It is also important to let them go and find their own way in life. Hovering over the children and not letting them make mistakes and learn doesn’t help them.

Mid life is a time when many people set up their own business, be that photography or other businesses. Sarah went through a divorce at this time and a little later set up her own business as a recruitment consultant.  
Sam asked about what someone should do who is thinking about a move to setting up their own photography business. Sarah says the key is just get out their and do it. Find out what it is you like about photography and get out there and do that specific thing. Right now don’t worry about making money from it. Just get out there and work on what you love doing. And as you get known for this area of photography, you will start to find work. The key is find this area of photography that is your passion.

Sarah says also avoid the push to always grow the business, scale up and move to the next level. The key is to do what is right for you right now. If you wish to make money so you can travel the world, why not make money by taking photographs while travelling around the world. There are different ways of doing things. Make sure you know what you want your life to look like, and work out from there. And be creative in how you do it. Sarah says you should value yourself, but also don’t focus on the money. Focus on what you want.

Marcus asked Sarah some tips of how to get from A to B. Sarah says the first thing is define B and be specific. Where do you want to live, who do you want to spend time with, what do you want to do. And spend time thinking about this and getting it right. Without this clarity there is nothing you can do. Once you have this clarity then you can think about when opportunities come along, are these opportunities going to help me move towards B. Stepping into the role of where you are at B helps. Tell people who you are. Be present with the language you use with yourself and others. Know that B is where you want to be and talk about this in a positive way. Be yourself and follow your own path. Don’t compare yourself to others and let them bring you time. Just focus on what you want and getting to B. Surrounding yourself with the right people can really help with this.

You can reach Sarah at any of the places below

https://www.sarahjnaylor.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahjnaylor/

https://www.instagram.com/sjncoaching/

Andy has worked with cameras for many years. Initially, he was in the CCTV industry. This role was about sales and account management. He worked long hours, and got well paid, but eventually got disillusioned with it and decided to be a commercial photography. He started out within a Google Maps niche. At the time google was recruiting photographers to do 360 virtual tours of the inside of businesses.
This was very popular for several years. He also sold standard images to businesses while doing the virtual tour. He also used to upload images to stock photography. He doesn’t do this much any more, but still makes money from the images he has on there. He says the most mundane images are the ones that sell the best. Marcus mentions that we were chatting to Pete Coco about Spotify and how it’s effected the music industry, and we thought it was similar to how stock providers have effectaffecteded the photography industry.

Andy now mainly does self-hosted virtual tours, so he hosts them not Google. That means they can be much more sophisticated. Andy says this week is quite specialist and the shoot is quite rapid and quite technical. But then most of the work is done in editing. Andy has been doing this for ten years now. Long enough that he keeps being asked back to existing clients to re-shoot. He does a lot of work with independent and boarding schools.
Marcus asks how he markets himself. Before the pandemic, he did a lot of marketing, trade shows, emails, social etc. However, since then he has not needed to do much marketing. The amount of work he got shot up over the pandemic as schools needed to replace their school tours with something virtual. So during the pandemic, he had more work than he could manage. And due to that he has built up a relationship with many businesses that keep wanting him back. But he still does some marketing and outreach to ensure that he keeps getting some new business coming in.
Marcus asks how he stays creative. Andy says that doing the shoot for the virtual tour isn’t creative. But the creative work is in the post-production. He also says he prefers conventional stills photography as it is more creative.

Marcus asks Andy about AI and how he has been using it. Andy says AI is here and we may as well embrace it, it’s here to stay. He has played with the image creation side of AI. He has also been using things in photoshop like the generative AI fill. As an example, he sometimes has to remove items from a room for the tour and 9/10 AI does this well. But at the moment he says he thinks that the AI generative images is not something he can bring into his business.
Sam asks if his corporate life helped him when he had to run his own business. He says it really helped with the sales and marketing side of things as he was doing this in his corporate role. He says many photographers find this hard so it has helped him. He says one approach is to show them what their competitors have and they do not have.
Andy plans to carry on with the virtual tours for schools. He would prefer to do more stills and drone photography. But even his current clients do not know he offers this.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠01482 765871

Sam talks about who is your ideal client or customer. First Sam explains why you want to an ideal customers. If you think “anyone” is your client, your messages is bland and doesn’t land with people and so “nobody” listens. While if you have a specific audience in mind when you are writing your content it is much more engaging and interesting for that audience.
So the first thing to do is decide who your ideal client should be. A good place to start is to think about your current clients. Are some of those ideal clients? What makes them ideal? Then try and find out more about them, things like age, gender hobbies, etc. For Sam the two things that makes them ideal clients is that they are profitable and enjoyable to work with. Marcus also points out that the target market needs to be large enough. Marcus says at networking events he always said I work with coaches and motivational speakers. And they are the people he now works with and the people that gets referred to him. Sam points out that there are 120,000 photographers in the UK on Linkedin and many more photographers, so there are lots of them that you need to stand out from and having content targeted to your ideal client helps with that.

There are other things to think about with ideal clients like how easy are thy to reach an connect with. They also need to be definable. They are also a group which you can provide value to. Marcus brings up the idea of having a tribe and Sam points out that’s a big thing in Seth Godin’s books. Marcus says that for him and many businesses their ideal clients are people just like them.
Once you have decided who your target audience is you need to clearly define them with things like age, gender, hobbies, work, family. People then make avatars. So invent people that could be in your target audience. Give them a personality. Then when writing content aim it at one of your avatars. You also need to think where are you going to find this target audience, which social channels or print media.

Marcus says it’s clear that doing this exercise really helps you to get work.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠

⁠01482 765871⁠

There are several different models for how to decide on a price for your services. We talk about some of the main ones in the show.

1. Charge per hour.
With this approach you decide what you want to be paid per hour. Then work out how much time the whole process takes and work out a price accordingly.

2. Look at your competitors
Look at your competitors websites. If you are feeling a little cheeky, phone another photographer and pretend to be a lead and get a price
3. Value pricing
What is the value of your work? This is hard to define. You have to think what value are you providing to someone with your service. For example what is the value of someone having that wedding album for the rest of their life and having had an amazing experience on the day.

4. Cost of business model

For this approach out you work out for your business how much everything costs, including paying you the rate you want to be paid. Then work out how many jobs you will do a year. Then divide the total cost by the number of jobs and that is how much that photo-shoot costs.

Marcus mainly follows the value based system for his branding photography. But for event photography Marcus just charges on a per hour basis. And then on the rare occasion he does weddings he generally looks at others in the market and charges a similar amount.

New businesses almost always charge too little.

Almost all new businesses charge far too little for their services. Often new businesses can easily double their price and still have a good price. But when you do this you may initially lose customers as you move from the bottom end market into a higher level market. Sam suggests that almost everyone with a new business can increase their prices easily.
Should you display your pricing?

This is a big debate and everyone has a different view on this. Marcus uses the “My prices start from” approach. It is helpful that leads get a ballpark figure. Sam thinks if you have a subscription service these should always be clearly priced. He also suggests that having some packages and pricing them is a good idea. Just make sure your package is not really comparable to other photographers. That avoids direct price comparison.
Subtly showing pricing

The way your website and marketing look already gives subtle ideas about pricing. The customers shown the way it looks already gives leads an idea of how expensive you are.
Stick to your guns

If you give a price do not negotiate. Stick to the price you have offered. If it is too expensive for them offer them less for a lower price. But don’t just drop the price. If the price goes down what they get also needs to go down.
Working for free

Marcus suggests this is a good thing to do if there are specific things you need. For example you need photos for your portfolio if you have a new business. But ensure that if you do this you make it very clear what you want out of the process.

Jamie is passionate about sales strategy, LinkedIn, socialmedia, and sales training to help businesses improve their revenue and processes. Focusing on selling to different personalities! In this show, he talks about setting up an e-learning course, and we could do this as photographers. After being a podcast guest, the host asked Jamie if he wanted to make an e-learning course with him. They used software called Zenler for the course. Jamie provided the content.
When building a course, you need to think about who your target market is. And why do they need your course? You also need to think about the cost of the course.  But the real key is what the value and outcomes people are going to get from taking part in this course.

For Jamie’es e-learning course, each module contained amodule made into a video with Jamie talking over the presentation. Sam says that making the videos can put people off doing this. Jamie says to start with the end goal and think of recurring income to spur you on to create the resources. Butit does take time. Sam also suggests running some of the course modules as webinars and then recording them. These recordings can be used for the e-learning course.  This way, it’s part of your marketing.

Pricing is another challenge in working out what to charge.Introductory offers are good at the start, but then it’s also getting the affordable price. Jamie’s e-learning course also has an add-on option he sells where they can get some personal input at the end.

Sam asks what you need for an e-learning course. Jamie sayssome guides and workbooks would be good. Video, auditory and written resources for learning. It is also vital that your e-learning course is unique and different to whatever else is out there.

Jamie says creating the course is not enough. Promoting the course is a key part of the success of the course. The course will not sell itself. It’s essential to think about whether the people you already market to are the target market for your course or not.

You can find James on Linkedin here

The first Shoot to the Top Webinar is on the 2nd of April and it’s all about getting higher value clients for your business. Tofind out more and book click here.

To get the Shoot to the Top Podcast in your inbox every weekto ensure you don't miss an episode,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠clickhere ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shoot to the Top Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ group to meet fellowphotographers, guests and Sam and Marcus.

Creativity and Rest
Marcus takes us back to episode 12 and reminds us about the 5 Rs of creativity

• Rules
• Research
• Reflection
• Repetition
• Rest
  

Today Marcus is going to talk more about the subject of rest.

Marcus has been looking at the latest research into creativity. According to the research your brain works in two different modes

1.   “Default Mode Network”

When you are not really thinking about anything. When you do something by habit. Like having a shower in the morning, or driving your car and you arrived without knowing how you got there. It is when your thoughts are going inwards

2.    “Executive Control Network”

This is when you are really in the zone and doing focused activity.

It’s been discovered that the Default mode network is linked to creativity.
Taking the time

 When Marcus wants to think about ideas he sits down in the evening with a glass of wine. Sam suggests then that meditation should be part of this process, which Marcus agrees with. It’s important to find that quiet space, and think about nothing and let the ideas come to you. It’s crucial this is in a quite space with nothing else going on.

Notebook
Marcus recommends always having a notebook to hand to write down your ideas as they come to you. But also Marcus says as you get better at getting creative ideas you can also train your brain to remember these ideas.
How to start
For Marcus he says about 8pm he sits in quiet with a glass of wine and just sits, and thinks. And the more you try this the easier it becomes. There is lots of meditation help online, both in terms of techniques and calming sound tracks. Marcus recommends doing this every day. Finding that time can be very challenging. But it is worth that effort. For some people the day time is a better time, when the house is quiet. It’s important to try and schedule that quiet time into your day.

Long term

This is a long term process and it will take time to get better at this. There is a great Netflix documentary about this

Marcus guides us through the world of social media. It’s critical for photographers to have some sort of presence on one or more social media platform.

We talk about which platform is best for you and we discuss in depth which ones are best for commercial photographers -Linkedin, Twitter and Google My Business. These are primarily focuses on business to business.

As long term posters on Linkedin both of us are keen advocates of the platform, there are no restrictions on the type and size of media you post - unlike others.

There is a link for Google business below and it’s definitely something worth investigating.

As far as what to post it pays to be interesting and avoid being “salesy” at all costs. Set out to be seen as the authority and be consistent in your posting.

As a photographer we have lots of visual material to share but a few words to go with the photograph such as a short story will make the post even more popular. Don’t expect instant results it takes time to build a following but certainly, initially at least, focus on one or two platforms.

Of course it’s not a one way streak, comment on other peoples post and build up connections.

In summary:

Be consistent

Comment on other peoples posts

Find the platform that works for you

https://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/business/

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/

https://twitter.com/home

News of the day

https://petapixel.com/2023/04/25/amazing-collection-of-photos-that-chart-american-history-up-for-auction/

This is the 100th episode of the show with Jeff Brown, Zoe Hiljemark, Gillian Devine and Martin Hobby. All our guests have been on other shows and you can listen to them here:

• ⁠Using LinkedIn to its full potential as a photographer with Jeff Brown⁠

• ⁠Jeff Brown, Photography mentor⁠

• ⁠Guest Interview with Zoe Hiljemark⁠

• ⁠How to not leave “money on the table” with Gillian Devine⁠

• ⁠Guest Interview with Gillian Devine⁠

• ⁠Guest Interview with Martin Hobby⁠

Here are a few of the people you might want to check out, that our guests recommend:  

• ⁠Christian Huber ⁠ (Photographer)

• ⁠Denise Duffield Thomas, author of Get Rich Lucky Bitch⁠

• ⁠Jeff Brown’s travel book⁠

• ⁠Simon Marsden, Phantoms of the Isles,⁠

• ⁠I am Malala ⁠written by Malala Yousafzai

• ⁠Martin Parr ⁠

• ⁠Perrin Adams ⁠(podcast host)

• ⁠Uber Suggest ⁠(SEO tool)

• ⁠Elspeth Vincent ⁠ (photographer)

• Ella CRM

The show covered a wide range of topics including AI, and how it can help and cause problems for photographers.  

The guests also looked at the equipment and the directions for the entrance. Photographers needing to include video as part of branding photography was discussed.

Where marketing is going was another area that the guests investigated.

Investing into platforms you own such as your website and email list was seen as a growth area as getting reach on social media is getting more challenging.

Pricing was also a topic for discussion and the need to not have our price low. The group also discussed when to do a free photoshoot, and what to make sure you get out of it.

Marcus’s answer is… it depends!

The pros of working for free

If you are starting out as a photographer Marcus thinks there are some advantages to working for free.

One is getting experience. Marcus thinks that if you are working for free it allows you to try the client photographer relationship but without the client handing over any money.
Portfolio building is another reason to work for free. When you are starting out you need portfolio photographs for your website, social and to show people.
Experimentation. Marcus thinks this is another reason to work for free. You can be a bit more creative and experimental.
The cons of working for free
If you have worked for someone for free it can be hard to charge them if they come back and want further work.

People who get your work for free don’t value what you produce and don’t value your time. Sam and Marcus us the analogy of the supermarket, we value more the food we get from Waitrose than the food we get from Liddle.

Remember your time is valuable and does have a cost.

If you do work for free it is very important that you set clear expectations from the start of a free photo shoot what is the outcome. What will you deliver and how much input to they get in this.

Working for charities
Should you charge working for charities? Marcus initially never charged for working with charities. But now he has realised that the charities are full of people getting paid so why shouldn’t the photographer get paid to? Sam and Marcus discuss this could be variable depending on the charity, small local ones compared to large national ones. But do remember the accountant, marketing agency etc are all charging charities for their work.
Editorial photography
This means photography for magazines. This is not an area with much money in it. But it is a chance for your photographs to be seen by many people who would not normally see it. Marcus has never been paid for photos in a magazine, and it costs him time and money for the shoot. But Marcus feels the benefits of getting his photographs in the magazine out way the costs.
Personal projects
Marcus thinks all photographers should be doing personal projects. This portfolio can be shown to potential clients. Marcus says that this got him quickly to have a good job in photography.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠

⁠01482 765871⁠

In this episode Sam says we should talk much less about ourselves in our marketing. People are interested in themselves, not about you. So if your marketing is talking about you, the people receiving it are not very interested. They are more interested in themselves.

Social
Who was your last social post about? Was it about you? If so how interesting is that for other people?

Some people think that being on social media regularly means talking about yourself all the time. This is not engaging for other people.

So what can you post about?

• Helping others. By doing this you are helping people, but subtly showing them you are an expert.   
• Ask a question. Ask others for their ideas and opinions.
• Commenting on other peoples posts. This is helping to build a community not just talking about yourself.

Websites
Visitors come to your website because they have a problem and want to know if you can solve it. The general public don’t browse photographers websites for fun. They come to see if you can solve their problem. So are you talking about the visitor and their problems and how you can solve them.
The "I" test
Look at your website. How many times do you use the word "I"(or we) and how many times do you say the word "you". If you use "I", more than "you", then you need to re-focus your website to the visitor and away from "you".

About me page

You have to even make the about page not about you, but what you have done, how you have helped people, rather just your story from birth.
Blogs, videos and testimonials
These are a great way to show how great you are and how knowledgeable you are without you having to do it directly. Visitors reading your blogs will realise you are an expert over time as they read your blogs.

Networking
This also applies to meeting people in networking meetings. Let the person you are meeting talk as much as possible. You will build great relationships as people will see you are interested in them.

Newsletters
This principal again applies to the newsletter. A newsletter that just explains what happens in your office last week is not engaging. A newsletter should not be your news. It should be entertaining, informing and engaging.
Promoting yourself is not the same as talking about yourself. You want other people to be talking about you and your brand, you don’t want to be doing this yourself.

Pascalle Bergman is a person who puts this into practice perfectly. She is constantly helping people, not talking about herself. Find her here on LinkedIn

We talk to Nick about how he got into men's styling and how photographers can use a stylist on their shoots.

Marcus has been using three pieces of software for a long time in his career. Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture one. But initially Marcus goes back to the history of retouching, which started only a couple of years after photography was invited. So “photoshopping” has been around from well before photoshop.
Adobe photoshop was early photography software that started in the 1990s. Marcus remembers using this for the first time while he was at university. But back in those days it was slow to use due to the speed of the computers.  Marcus even had to do a photoshop exam at one stage and became an accredited expert!

Lightroom came out after Photoshop. It is a very easy to use intuitive piece of software. Lightroom and Photoshop are complimentary pieces of software both made by Adobe. The difference between Photoshop and Lightroom is that Photoshop is designed to work at one image at a time, while Lightroom can do bulk editing. You can chose to edit a photo in one way, then apply that editing to lots of other photos. The terminology used in light room was the terminology of the dark room so photographers easily understood it.

Photoshop also has many more uses than photography. Marcus uses it for all sorts of areas of his business such as making reels for Instagram or making posts for Linkedin. Photoshop has so much functionality that it can be overwhelming initially. Also it means it’s very easy to spend a long time on photoshop editing images. This can be a challenge for professional photographers, making sure they don’t spend too long using Photoshop.

Capture one is the third piece of software Marcus uses. Marcus uses it’s ability to tether. That means Marcus works with his camera plugged into his laptop and the people he photographs can see the photos as they are taken. Lightroom can also tether but Marcus thinks this works better on Capture one. But Capture one is not easy to pick up and use.

Marcus says the show was triggered by a client he had recently who wanted images cropped in a very specific way.
Back in the days of film Marcus says it was a lot simpler and to some photographers it was a badge of honour not to crop their images. There were of course a great deal of different film sized and ratios back then including:
35mm – which were a 2x3 ratio

6cmx6cm so a 1x1 ratio

6x7 ratio was also possible for magazine covers.

Large format 5x4 was also available

There also camera specifically for panoramic images that were a range of formats and sizes.

Back then once you had chosen your film that was about it. Now with websites and social media these is so more to think about and so many different sizes. And when shooting you need to think about what crop you will use at the end.
For example a website header might be a 2:1 ratio, quite cinematic, while an Instagram reel will be 16x9 in portrait mode, which is very challenging to shoot. Sam says when shooting for a website you need to remember that the images will be auto-croppped so it needs to cope with a range of crops. Marcus says when shooting a website banner think first about if there will be text over the image. If there will be ask for an overlay so you can work out where the text would go on the image. View finders allow you to have crop marks (like rule of thirds) and these can help you think about the final crop you will have.
There are lots of sizes needed for social. For example for a profile banner a really wide thin shot is needed. Because there is such a range of image sized needed it’s important to ask the client what the client is going to use the images for. It’s a great value add for the customers providing them with pre-cropped images for different platforms and uses. Doing this also ensure that your images are shown in their best light when used.

Marcus loved the square Instagram photograph format, but with the move to reels being more popular, then this is a move away from squares to 16x9 portrait. As he has said before this is a challenging format to shoot in.
When thinking about cropping you also need to think about file size. If you are going to heavily crop an image you need to ensure it is a large file size that can cope with the crop.

Marcus suggests another thing that can make you stand out from other photographers is making videos from still images and giving them to your client. Marcus suggests using Canva for this and Sam suggests using CapCut. Marcus says making gifs for clients is another thing you can do them.  

In this episode Sam is digging into “working the room” and how to successfully build your business network.

Some of the things we discuss in this weeks show

•  Why go to a business network meeting.

•  Don’t be “salesy”.

•  Building a network in a new town - both Sam and Marcus talk from personal experience.

• It’s not just about letting people know about you!

•  Know, like and trust.

•  Applying the 80/20 rule.

•  Listening is a skill.

•  How to use touchpoints to make sure you are remembered.

•  Using Linkedin to help build your network.

•  The importance of following up.

•  How to create a winning elevator pitch.

•  Extra benefits from networking.

•  Applying a sales funnel approach to networking

Marcus has been working in the studio since her started as a photographer. His hair and fashion work was both in home studios and in larger professional studios. But what he learnt from this experience is that a large studio isn’t really needed. Sam asks if it is worth a photographer hiring a studio to experience what it’s like to use a big studio. Marcus says it’s hard as they are so expensive. But he says you can do a lot at home.
Marcus’s home studio is 4m x 5m and is a spare room. He has shot up to 5 people in the room at the same time. He is going to break the show into three sections:
1. Backgrounds

2. Lighting  - See our other show on lighting here

3. Lenses – See our other show on lenses here
Backgrounds:
Paper backgrounds have been traditionally used by photographers. They are great if you have lots of space. Over time they get creased and damaged. In a big studio there is no problem as the subject can be a long way from the paper so the imperfections in the paper can’t be seen. But, this doesn’t work in a small studio. So instead Marcus has painted one wall a mid grey as an alternative backdrop.
As it’s a flat surface with matt paint he can get the subject really close to it. It is also easy to change the background to other colours using photoshop.
Marcus also paints a 6ft by 3ft board and paints it the brand colour of his client. He simply hooks it up against a wall. Marcus has a second wall that is great so he can use the corner in his shots.

Lighting:

Marcus recommends investing in a C-Stand. This is a heavy duty lighting stand with a boom arm attached. That means you can be much more flexible with where the light is placed. These stands fold away when not in place. In terms of lighting Marcus says it’s quite flexible. It depends what you are shooting, people, food, products or other things. But a single light is enough for a lot of situations.
You do need to think about the light bouncing off other walls. So ideally the other walls should be black (Marcus puts up black boards for this to avoid the room in his house having black walls).
Marcus says high ceilings are good (if you have a choice) as you can then put lighting above them. He deals with this by putting the subject on a chair.
Sam suggests the use of a local village hall as a large in-expensive studio space. Marcus says it’s a good idea, but the number of windows could be an issue.
Lenses
In a small space 100mm will be the largest lens that can be used. Marcus uses a 35mm lens a lot. He says if he is careful and aware of potential distortion it can work well. How far you are from the subject makes a big difference. Marcus likes to be close to his subjects when photographing them. Marcus has a white sit/stand desk with a white top which he says is great as a prop for subjects to lean against. Then it doubles up as a desk the rest of the time.
You can catch up Sam, Marcus, guests and other photographers on our Facebook Group.

You can sign up to the Shoot to the Top newsletter here to ensure the podcast arrives in your inbox every week.

To get the Shoot to the Top Podcast in your inbox every week to ensure you don't miss an episode,⁠⁠⁠⁠click here ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the⁠⁠⁠⁠Shoot to the Top Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ group to meet fellow photographers, guests and Sam and Marcus

Marcus says street photography is about capturing incidentshappening around you. He also says there is so much to learn from street photography that all photographers should be doing it. He says the need to work at the moment as you see things is perfect training for other types of photography.
Equipment
A street photographer needs to be mobile and discrete. So, no huge camera bags. A camera and a lens or two. He says the lens should be 50mm or wide angle, and the photographer then needs to be close and involved with their subjects. Somestreet photographers use flash for street photography.

Location

 Marcus says it needs to be where people gather. Otherwise, it’s landscape photography.Martin Parr photographs in gas stations, country fairs and other places. Tony Ray Jonesisanother street photographer. He photographed a lot of beach towns on the East coast of Yorkshire.
How

Marcus says you need to be invisible as a street photographer.Marcus says one approach is “shooting from the hip”. So, having the camera by your waist. Marcus also thinks pre-focussing also helps.  Marcus says misdirection is another approach. He says to get your camera out walk towards them, but photograph off to the side. But with a wide-angle lens, they are still in the shot, but it doesn’t look like you are photographing them. The third option is simply to ask people’s permission to photograph them. They will very often say yes. Sam asks about the issue of photographing people without their permission. Marcussays the law is on your side as a street photographer taking photographs.
Marcus’s final approach is called “pick a spot” This approach is to find a photographic location and wait there for people to go past.

What are you looking for?
To start with, take some photographs. It doesn’t matter what, just warm up. Then, you are looking for people interacting with each other. People interact with the background or environment.

To get the Shoot to the Top Podcast in your inbox every week to ensure you don't miss an episode,⁠⁠⁠⁠click here ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the⁠⁠⁠⁠Shoot to the Top Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ group to meet fellow photographers, guests and Sam and Marcus

Sam and Marcus are in the same room together and took this rare opportunity to quiz each other about their past! This episode is a little like being present as they chat about their past in the pub, pint in hand.

Sam started design websites n the 90’s working with HTML and hand coding in Notepad. And even though he had various jobs he was always designing websites in the background. As a keen white water kayaker he did a lot of traveling, visiting exotic places for his sport.

Designing websites with photographs had its problems early on as it meant relying on scanning negatives and transparencies. Then compressing files significantly so they could load quickly.

His dad was a wedding photographer and Sam built up a lot of knowledge assisting him on weddings. A valuable experience that helped him direct his focus on designing websites for photographers as well as an understanding what makes a great image.

Marcus found photography in his mid 30’s after a successful career as a session bass player. Prompted because he was looking for a new creative outlet and after purchasing a decent camera was drawn into the way he could “contain” the world through a viewfinder.

Quickly immersing himself into studying the subject at college and university he moved from his home in London to Brighton to partake in a BA in Editorial Photography. Then onto a role assisting a top advertising photographer for a few years helping out creating the image with flash lighting.

After branching out on his own shooting fashion he eventually starting working for the Hair and Beauty industry in his own studio in London as well as LA, NY and Paris. He also ran workshops for hairdressers on how to photograph their own work for magazines.

After 10 years Marcus was offered a post as a Senior Lecturer in Fashion and Advertising Photography at the University of South Wales moved to Bristol and after another eight years set up his current practice as a Brand Photographer.

SEO Part Two There are going to be three podcasts on SEO.

1. Planning
2. External SEO
3. Internal SEO

This episode is looking at External SEO.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠⁠

⁠⁠01482 765871

This week Sam is talking about external SEO. That means things you can do, external to your website, to help your SEO.

One of the most important things you can do is get a Google Business account. A Google business account gives you a pin (or area) in Google maps. It also gives a table of information within Google about your businesses within the Google search. It is worth spending time setting up a good Google maps account. If you work from home Sam suggests you set it up showing the area where you work, so it’s not a pin at your house.  Posting on Google business is useful, but don’t expect engagement from this. You can add products to your business account. If you don’t have any packages, come up with some. The most important thing you can do is get as many reviews as you can on. Lots of reviews and recent reviews are both really useful. As you always need fresh reviews you always have to stay on the ball with this. Marcus manages two business accounts promoting different sides of his business.
Social Media is another  vital part of your SEO. Google isn’t checking every post. But it is keeping an eye that you are active. To ensure this helps with SEO you need to make sure your social media profile shows your website. The one social media account you need to treat a little differently. That’s YouTube, that is owned by Google. Videos can be a great way to bypass the website search. When you search for a term Google will often put Google map entries and videos ahead of websites. So that’s one reason why having a good Google business profile is so important. It also means you can create videos to target specific search terms.

Back links. This means other websites linking to your website. Google thinks if other high quality websites are linking to your site then your website must be good. So trying to get links to your website is important. A simple way to do this is get on as many free business directories as possible. As a warning reciprocal links don’t really work. So don’t trade where two businesses link to each other. Guest blogging and guest podcasting are great ways to build backlinks. If you do a podcast or guest blog ensure you get links get back to your website. Links from high quality sites provide more kudos than links from low quality websites. Over time back links will build over time if you keep producing high quality engaging content.

On this week's show Sam discusses the case for photography case studies. He tells us how they can attract more visitors to your website and help attract your ideal client. He also talks about how they are best showcased for maximising a website’s SEO.

And then there are the regular features - News and Stat of the day!

This week the guest is Christine Saunders. Christine is an art buyer, producer and business coach for professional photographers. She helps photographers curate their websites to show their best works and ultimately get more work.

Sam asks what is Christine helping these photographers with and why are they coming to her? Christine says she helps photographers help them see themselves more as CEO of a business. Think about all of the departments the CEO of coca cola might have. Generally photographers are great at the creativity and often get help with the accounting side, but there is much more to business than this. Especially marketing. How to create a business plan a marketing plan where you are consistently reaching out to promote yourself. Christine says a marketing plan is a hugely important part of being seen and getting work. But she also works in all sorts of others areas of the business helping to develop this. So she isn’t an agent she is more like a business partner.

Sam asks about target audience and how to decide who your target audience is. Christine says she does a lot of brain storming this with clients starting from the sort of photography they do and the sort of clients they want to work with.

Christine doesn’t work with any particular genre of photographer, she more works with photographers filling gaps in their business. Christine says by the nature of being a creative photographers have sensitivities. Christine is asking them to reach out and be more visible, but many don’t feel happy doing that and so she supports them.

Marcus asks how the market has changed for photographer since the start of the century. Back then there was no digital photography, no smart phones and no global campaigns. before different areas would run different campaigns from different photographers now it's more global. Getty has come in which has been good and bad for photographers. Some have thrived from this while others felt it has done a lot of damage. Marcus thinks a third one is the amount of people who are commercial photographers. Christine agrees that the number who are coming into the industry is very large.

Sam asks if she helps photographers with pricing. She says that is something she helps with and she has stopped photographers not going in too low and to value themselves. Sometimes this means charging for extra things on top of the standard shoot fee. She says a lot of photographers do go in too low with price, but there is a balance here. She says it is also worth asking the client what budget they have. They won’t always tell you this and it can be challenging, but usually someone has a budget, but they won’t always share it with you.

Marcus brings up licensing, being paid for the use of your images. He says in the US licensing is standard while this isn’t the case except in the very top of the market in the UK. Christine seems less sure about this. She says that in much of the work she does then these recurring fees are collected. She also says if people want usage of the images included then that should be done under restrictions, such as a five year limit.

Sam asks how photographers who do hide behind the camera a little could start to come out of their shell. Christine says go to any industry events you can. Photo London has just been on. These are great places to get inspired. You can also often get a portfolio review at these events. Another thing they could do is send some emails to people they already know.

Marcus asks what photographers can do to aim for the top of their industry. She says she sees a lot of talent and it feels like she is the only one who sees it. She says step out there. Showing your work to the world even if it imperfect is a lot better than only you and your Mum seeing it. Also remember this is a business. It always needs to be looked at as a business, you need to step into those other roles.

Mark Kensett is a photographer and has worked in it for 40 years since he was 17. Mark started in a commercial studio when he was 17—then co-founded a studio for a while. He finally sold his share in that and then moved on to work for himself.

Mark says his early work was all done on large-format film cameras.  Sam asks if he can tell us about some of the clients he has worked with or shoots he has done over the years. Mark started as a food photographer and told us about a shoot he did with a food client who worked with the top chefs of the day. He did a commercial shoot during the day and presented a slide show by the end of the day, which was a lot of stress and work getting everything processed in time.

He says it was interesting moving from large format cameras to high-quality digital. And they very quickly moved to digital as they saw how good it was. The studio he worked from was an early adopter of digital.
Sam asks what he is working on now. Mark says he still works with food and some education customers. He also works with human rights charities. He should be going to Peru next month. Sam asks what he does about charity photography work. Mark says he has a sliding scale and tends to look at what something is worth beyond the financial. So is it good for his portfolio, does he believe in the cause etc? So he looks at these factors and where he will charge them on his sliding scale that goes from free to full corporate rate.

Marcus says Mark does a wide range of photography and has wondered if he has ever thought about moving into a niche. Mark says that his training in the studio was very broad. He doesn’t do portraits and weddings but still does a wide range of work. He also thinks that within London you could niche very tightly, but less so in the regions.

Mark talks about charging for clients. He says deciding a “day rate” is quite an art. It partly depends on what the market will take, his investment in the kit and other factors.

Sam asks about personal projects. He says he did a lot of dance photography. It started because his daughter was at a dance school. He did some photography for free for the dance school. He then worked with a designer on a book showing dance photography. This opened doors to commercial clients. Sam says that this is a similar story to Joe Giacomet whose personal project with football cards led to lots of work.

Marcus asks about photographers who inspire him. Mark says Yousef Karsh  has been there from day one. He was also inspired by his Uncle who was also a Karsh fan. Sebastian Selgado is another photographer he admires both in terms of his photography and what he does. Joey Lawrence is a young portrait photographer in New York.

Sam asks what words of advice he has for new photographers. Mark is helping to mentor some young photographers. Mark says those leaving education are creative but don’t often have the business and marketing skills. He says you have to do personal work. He thinks this is where you learn fastest. Getting out there and learning from your mistakes is so important.
Marcus says there is a film out about the photographer Lee Miller. Marcus asks if it’s still “cool” to be a photographer. He thinks maybe fashion photographers like Marcus are cool but not him.
Marcus asks what is happening next. Mark says he he off to Peru with Edukids. Mark says he is aware he is entering the third stage of his career. He tries to stay fit but realises it is a young man's game and he is conscious that he is getting older. So he is starting to develop a mentoring program for young photographers and helping them become visual storytellers.

Maureen helps elevate peoples Linkedin profile. She helps them create more opportunities and visibility. That creates more leads and more business.
Maureen tells her story. She started off in the world of sales and marketing. She went from telemarking to field sales. To then running sales teams working with tech startups. As a Sales and marketing director LinkedIn was always her go to platform. She has always known that it is such a great tool.
About 12 years ago Maureen had a son and wanted to work for herself. She started being a general marketing consultant. Before lockdown she was 50% marketing consultant 50% Linkedin work. During Lockdown this moved to being 95% LinkedIn marketing and only 5% marketing consultant. And this has stayed ever since.
Sam asks about LinkedIn recent restrictions for those not paying to use LinkedIn. LinkedIn are now heavily restricting the number of people you can follow. So Maureen says it is getting harder to use, but is still a great platform to use.
Marcus asks the difference between Brits and Americans using Linkedin. Maurenn thinks this just reflects the difference between US and UK culture and business culture. People are happier promoting themselves in the US than they are in the UK.
Sam says photographers do like to hide behind their camera and really need to come out from behind it. Maureen says this is very understandable, but photographers do need to try and get over it. Maureen says having packages can really help, so you can get out onto LinkedIn and sell your package rather than have to sell yourself, which is harder to do.

Maureen says Linkedin is used to give clients value and build a community. But she does do one sales post per week. It might be subtle but she always has one. Marcus said for a commercial photographer then LinkedIn is amazing as it is B2B. which Facebook and Instagram isn’t. Maureen says focussing on a sector really works well on Linkedin. Send out posts for your niche, use relevant hashtags. And connect to people in the right sector. She says with a connection message you should get 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 connections. But connection messages are being limited. But, you can still connect with more people without the message.

Maureen says that if you spend an hour a day on LinkedIn you can achieve a lot. Send time posting, making new connections and follow up messages.
Marcus says also that business people need photos for Linkedin for posts, headshot, banner images and more. So photography for people to use on Linkedin is a great area for photographers to work in.

Sam asks Maureen some top tips for their LinkedIn profile. She says a profile photograph is a must. She has 5 pillars of success on Linkedin and the profile is one of them. Look like the top dog that you are. Your LinkedIn profile needs to be generating work for you. It needs to have an amazing tag line. It needs to really shine. Your banner needs to be excellent. As a photographer you can feature things like images you have taken recently. The more visual your profile is the more you will stand out.

One of Maureen's other pillars is let the other steal the show. So tell stories about other people you have been working with. Maureen says she gets customers by giving out hints and tips and talking about people she’s been working with.

You can find Maureen on LinkedIn (big surprise) or at her website

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenlkane/
https://linkedinbreakfastclub.co.uk/

Meg is from San Deago, our first guest from the US.

Meg is a brand photographer, and has worked with over 300 entrepreneurs. She always wanted to work in an area she had passion in. Twenty seven jobs later she started to work it out. While teaching English in Taiwan she bought a camera and started a travel blog. On her return to the US she decided she really loved photography and so started a business. She started doing all types of photography. Then one day someone asked her to do some branding photographs and this converted her to brand photographer.

That business changing brand shoot was seven years ago. At that time photography was still a part time job. So then she started going to networking groups and meeting more business owners.
Meg describes brand photography as bring broken down into brand photography and personal brand photography. Brand photography is for a product or business. While the personal brand is for the solo entrepreneur, one man band or family business. The personal branding is what Meg really likes doing. In this age of social media these branding photographs are so important for businesses.
Meg now works less, adds more value and charges higher prices which allows her to spend time with her toddlers.  She enjoys the flexibility that a brand photographer can bring.  She enjoys the creativity of brand photography. If you want to get into brand photography then first of all spend some time getting to know how it works. A client will often have a bigger budget than a personal client. But you need to ensure you let them know what value they will get from your work. Meg also says the planning side of a brand shoot is essential and a key part of the this type of work. This is about finding out about their personality, brand , business and the end use for the photos.

Getting in front of as many ideal clients is really important. It’s a numbers game. The more people you can get in front of the more clients and the better clients you will gain. This is a part of the business photographers don’t necessarily enjoy but it is vital for a thriving business.

Marcus asks what makes a branding photograph different from a portrait. Meg says it tells a story. You want to try and capture the essence of what a business is through the use of photography. Meg says that although we say the photography market is saturated, this is not unique. Many other industries are the same and businesses in those industries need photography to make them stand out from the crowd.

Marcus and Meg agree that in branding the coffee cup and computer and overused, although they have both used them. They say that you need to get more creative than this. How could a brand photographer go beyond this? Props, location and wardrobe can help and make the photos more unique and interesting.

Jamie runs Circle networks and he used to be a reluctant networker. Back in 2013 he had to go networking to find customers for his social media business. At the time most businesses were not on social media, so he had to go and find them. But he fell in love with networking and it took him on a long journey. Jamie says the business was providing social media for businesses that weren’t using it at all. It was mainly Twitter.
When Jamie started business he wanted to be able to do the school run. On that basis he never did breakfast networking. One of Jamie’s clients pestered him for weeks and then he eventually went and enjoyed it and got some business. When he started networking he was offered training, which he thought he didn’t need. Then Jamie eventually did some networking training. Using the training he moved from getting £18k of work in a year from networking to £88k a year.

Jamie says we have all experienced just going networking and pottering along, but few of us think of training. His business also involved getting video testimonials which he enjoyed doing. That got busy and took him all over the country, which wasn’t what he wanted to do. And people started to approach him for networking training, He eventually moved his business to doing that. He says it is around understanding what it is you really want.

Jamie says before networking, he thought carefully about who he wanted to work with. He decided he wanted to work with a franchisee. His plan was to do excellent work with one franchisee, get referred to others. This worked well and in the end he also ended up working for the head office. All from doing a little planning before going networking.

Marcus thinks most people are just “winging it” in networking rather than planning. Jamie also says what you would wear to networking should be the same as what you would wear to meet a dream client. He says for Zoom meetings many people don’t make any effort at all.  He also talks about what people see on the background of your Zoom calls. Marcus has some lighting which shows exactly what he does. Marcus also says he has made Zoom backgrounds that were slide shows of his work and people loved it at the networking events.

Jamie’s top networking tips
1. Prepare. Don’t just jump from one call to another with no breaks and no planning.

2. Arrive early. You would never arrive late for an in person event so don’t online

3. Go networking with one thing in mind. It might be you are looking for support, a recommendation, an accountant or anything else,  but go with one aim in mind. If you are going for referrals. Have one in mind and be crystal clear. Treat it like a marketing campaign. You could do it as simple as explain who your latest client is or your ideal client is. You want people in the room to be able to filter all the people they know down to one, who they will introduce them to.

4. Be proactive with referrals. Go out and find people to refer, don’t just refer people you happen to come across. Jamie says for example while speaking to people he asked them if they had business insurance and then when it needed renewing. If the renewals were coming up he would pass them on to a connection who sold insurance.

Jamie has a photographer he works with on quarterly shoots. He says his face is his personal logo. Using photographs of ourselves is not showing off, it’s personal branding. He also says that as he’s used more professional photos he has found his social media reach expand.

Most people though don’t know the value they would get from professional photos. It is therefore important that photographers explain what value they deliver with a photoshoot. 

So while networking talk about your clients and then the follow up is really important. Jamie said he made a decision to pass more referrals than ever before. And as a result of that he has been passed more referrals than ever before.

This week Marcus and Sam talk about making that big jump to going pro. What are the key things to think about?

This episode is an interview with Fiona Scott a PR specialist.
To start Sam and Fiona discuss the difference between PR and marketing. Fiona says public relations encompasses every type of marketing as public relations is about any time your business contacts the public. Fiona says that means if someone says they can help you with all of your PR be very wary, that is a very wide field.
Fiona’s specialism is in press communications. Fiona suggests that when you are starting business, get some advice about marketing and PR. You probably can’t afford PR or marketing, but get advice to help you get through the first few years.
Marcus asks about the history of PR. Fiona said that Queen Elizabeth the first was one of the first people to control the images that went out of her. Marcus was thinking of Edward Burtynsky who took the ideas of Froid and applied them to PR.
Sam bring in the idea that images and photography are vital to PR. Fiona says she will only ever work with people who have photos that re renewed every 18 months at the most. Fiona has a retained photographer in her business as photography is so vital to PR. So PR could be a good source of work. And offering a retainer to regular clients can be a great way to get a regular income as a photographer. It’s important when working on a retainer that you make it very clear what is covered in the retainer deal and what is not.
Fiona says the best photographers she has worked with do a wide range of photography, portraits, weddings etc. She also says that photographers are often awful at getting their own headshots done. They need to ensure they keep their photographs up to date.
Marcus asks how photographers can get involved in PR. Fiona says start localm and get in touch with PR companies within your own communities. Call them up and ask to meet. Fiona says there can be issue with copyright and PR. PR businesses need to pass photos on to other businesses, like newspapers. Therefore the PR business needs the right to do that and so the copyright for the photograph. Fiona says that a PR business can send the photographers details with images sent to press. But, the press do not have to credit the photographer. But a photographer can of course share on social media when their work has been used in the press.

Marcus asks what makes a good PR photograph. Fiona said that if you want to work with the media your photographs need to be media friendly. No plain backgrounds.  The background needs to help tell the story. Landscape only, portrait is rarely used unless you are being used for the front page of the magazine.  Usually they want a 1 to 3 Mb jpg. High end lifestyle magazines may ask for higher quality. Having lots of photographs to hand that you can send at a moments notice can really help you get your photographs published.  Product photographs are a little different and do need a plain background.

Fiona suggests photographers should get out on strong weather days, snowy, windy etc. Get out there, get some images and then very quickly send them to newspapers, and other media in your community.

You can get hold of Fiona here

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/thefionascott

https://scottmedia.uk/

Zoe Hiljemark is a PR and marketing consultant who works just with photographers. She has spent twenty years in PR, ten of those working with photographers.  She leverages PR content and SEO to promote photographers.
Back when Zoe became a mother she wanted baby photographs. So she got a photoshoot with Karen Wiltshire. Zoe got on well with Karen and the ideas went from there. Zoe realised Karen’s work was amazing but could reach many more people. So Zoe started working with Karen and then moved on to working with other photographers. The business grew from there and Zoe ended up just working with photographers. Zoe now works with all sorts of different photographers which she enjoys. She has a niche now and recommends niches for other businesses.

Sam asks if Zoe is getting photographers photographs in the press, or them and their services in the press. Zoe says it’s largely about getting them and their business into the press. Marcus wonders if particular magazines are good for particular niches. Zoe says that it depends on the client and their niche. But it’s largely not about photography magazines, but magazines read by their ideal client. Sharing photos to be used in the press is also a great way to get your images seen.

 Sam and Zoe discuss how important it is to know your target audience. Without this it is hard to know where to put your PR efforts. It takes a lot of time and effort to get into the press, so ensure when you get this you use it. Keep sharing it on social media, feature it on your website and keep talking about it.

Marcus asks if this is about making the photographer the star. Some photographers are not very keen on this and like to hide behind the camera. But PR is about being visible. Zoe thinks that PR is under-used by photographers, but to use it you have to share something about yourself.
Zoe talks about how photographers could improve their websites sharing information about a photoshoot and the story behind it, not just share the images. All of the work the photographer has put into this photoshoot needs to be shared.

Marcus asks about the challenges working with photographers on PR. Zoe says first of all they need to be in the right mindset. Also they can respond quickly to opportunities. The press may need images or a story very quickly so if a photographer is not keeping an eye on messages then they might miss the opportunity. Having a press pack ready is really useful. That means a pre-written bio and some headshots and other images.  It’s essential that photographers have good headshots and lifestyle images of themselves. These can be done reciprocally with other photographers.

Zoe says PR is not spin, just being seen in the right light.
Sam brings back the topic of niches and the worry people have when niching as people feel that they are cutting off a major group of clients. But if you don’t niche you can easily confuse clients with your messaging. When you have a niche, marketing becomes easier as you know who you are speaking to. This makes it easier to create content and posts that engage with your audience.

Sam and Gillian Devine are running a workshop for Photographers to get more leads and customers from the website and email marketing. Join the event here

Jeff Brown is known for many things but especially encouraging photographers to use LinkedIn. Jeff Has a new version of his LinkedIn book “The Photographers missing link”. The first version of the book was written in January 2022, and the size of the book has doubled since then. Jeff says that many of his opportunities come from LinkedIn as well as customers.
Jeff says 41% of millionaires are on LinkedIn. The 26-34 age group is the biggest group on LinkedIn, so they a perfect age range for wedding and newborn photographers. 82% of B2B buyers prefer to buy from LinkedIn rather than doing a Google search. The average earnings are $82,000 a year. This is not Facebook marketplace with people wanting everything cut price. Only about 5% of people on LinkedIn post. Jeff says that LinkedIn is a comments based platform while Instagram is a vanity platform. He says constantly selling on Linkedin doesn’t work. He suggested mixing personal stories with business posts really helps with your engagement and helps your posts to be seen by more people. Jeff also says it’s comments that are important on LinkedIn, not likes. That is where relationships are built. Marcus like LinkedIn for posting images as there are no restrictions on what you display. Jeff says remember the image stops the scroll. A square image takes up more space than a portrait image so that works better. Above the image there is a snippet of the post that users see. Make sure that this is engaging and encourages people to stop and read your post.
Jeff then starts to talk about LinkedIn newsletters. This is a great way to get content out to followers and helping you to stand out as a specialist in your field. He says he is also using his newsletters to help him create a book, so the content is dual use. The newsletter should not be about what you have done this week. It needs to have a specific focus.
Sam asks how often to send newsletters; Jeff says that 2 weeks to a month is ideal. He said also that LinkedIn automatically recommends your newsletter to other LinkedIn users. Marcus asks Jeff about using LinkedIn’s AI to create or improve posts. Jeff tried this and was not impressed at all. It takes away the personal edge, it uses language you wouldn’t usually use. He also says AI comments are easy to spot and nothing to do with the original post.

Jeff says know your target audience and get into their networks. Photographers often start out working for free to build their portfolio. Jeff says avoid working for free for those with no network and are starting out. Instead approach people with a large following who could easily afford the work. Then make an agreement about what they will do for the work (such as 5* reviews and social posts). Also make it very clear how much the work would normally be and make them do some work to get the free photos.

As a quick win Jeff says niche your LinkedIn profile and connect with your target audience. And of course, read Jeff’s new book.
You can find Jeff on LinkedIn here.

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Sam explains that a marketing funnel is not complicated. It’s simply a way to move someone from being unknown to us to a lead and then a customer.

Instead of talking about this in theory, Sam will create a sales funnel. On that basis, Sam and Marcus will create a marketing funnel for a brand shoot.
What happens first? Let's say our target market is solicitors. I need to “get them into my funnel”. Sam says his go to place to find solicitors would be LinkedIn. A good start would be connecting with solicitors on LinkedIn. Sam says that you then need to know what you will talk to the solicitors about. So he suggests a free Webinar “How to make the most of your personal brand online.” So you now have a free event that you can talk to the solicitors about.

So then search for solicitors in a fixed area using a connection message. Make it clear in the connection message why you are connecting. This is a positive way to connect. Anyone who then connects to you is “in your funnel”. Some people will reply to the connection and you can start a conversation about the event. For those that connect but don’t respond you can start a conversation with them. During the conversation, the chat uses open questions and guides them to booking the event. This is “moving them down the funnel”. The further down the funnel you go the fewer people there are, but the more likely they are to become customers.
You then run the webinar. Once you have planned and done one it’s really easy to repeat it. Marcus said he did something very similar and ran a day teaching solicitors how to take their own brand photographs. He says it works well.
It's vital that you allow time in the webinar to talk about “what next”. What are you going to offer them to move them to becoming a customer? Sam suggests something small, like a slot at a headshot day. Something small, but, they have to pay. The other option is to offer another free event.
Those who take you up on the headshot are customers, but this isn’t really the end of the funnel as this isn’t really what you want to sell them. Then at the headshot or when the photos are delivered have a chat about the headshots they have, ask if that is going to be enough or if they could really do with a bigger bank of images. That’s when the main sale can happen.

Remember that all the people who didn’t drop down to the next stage of the funnel are still in the funnel. Some are still getting emails, many are connected on LinkedIn.

Make sure that you have put the effort into getting people on the mailing list that you are using the mailing list and sending out email newsletters.

Sam and Marcus discuss niching, and this funnel is niched. There is a show on niching.

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 This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

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Why would we use Google Ads?
You get instant results. As soon as you press go you get visitors to your website. But it means you have keep paying to keep those visitors coming. It can also be complex to setup.
When should you use ads
Sam says the first thing you need to do is do some research before running ads.
1. You need to know your conversion rate (how many customers do you get for every enquiry).

2. You need to know the average amount of money you get from a customer

3. Find the ad costs for the ads you want to run. You need to use keywords here and the SEO planning podcast talks about this in more detail.
You then need to work our the cost per click. The  you need to know for every website visitors how many calls you get. You then need to know how many calls it takes to get a customer. You need to use this to work out how much money you will need to spend to get one customer. That number needs to be low enough to make it worth you paying this much for a customer.

You also set  monthly ad budgets which Google breaks down into days. Once your daily ad allowance is spent Google will stop showing your ad for the rest of the day. Ads can work if the price is right, but it is also easy to lose money on ads.

Marcus said that people from Google Ads phone you to help with your ads setup. But remember their main job is to persuade you to increase your ad spend.
Once you have done the maths and know the ad is worth running you need to think about the three parts of the ad.
1. The words 2. The ad

3. The destination you send them to
The key is that the words, the ads and the destinations must all match up. The keywords should relate to the ad which should relate to the landing page. The landing page needs to be 100% focussed on the ad. Sending people from ads to your home page is a really bad idea. If these 3 parts don’t all match then visitors won’t convert into leads and Google may not show your ad. It is best to make a different landing page for every ad that you run that is dedicated to match that ad.

Marcus comments that it’s easy to spend a lot on ads. Sam says it’s important to constantly evaluate how the ads are working for you. Give them a few months to bed in. Once they have settled in and they are not working at all turn them off. If they are working well great. If they are a bit borderline then it is time  to tweak the ads and the landing page. But only ever change one thing at a time. Make a single change, evaluate the results, then make another change and do the same. Remember the changes could be to the ads, keywords or landing page. But always make one change at a time.

So remember get the flow from the words to the ads to the page and make sure it adds up financially.

Toby Lee
Toby is a headshot photographer in the UK. His business is called Headshot Toby. He has been a Headshot photographer for 7 years. He started out working with actors and those in the entertainment industry. He is now in Lincolnshire working more with businesses.

Toby started out as an actor and went to one of the top acting schools in the country. During his final year at acting school, it was essential to get a professional head shot. His headshot was done by Robin Savage. Toby felt he really enjoyed the process. He happened to have a DSLR he bought to make films. And he started to use it to take images of his friends on the course. He felt that friends were spending lots of money on headshots. He ended up taking lots of headshots of his friends on his course and got great feedback. Gradually he was spending more and more time on the photographer while nothing was really coming in on the acting front.  Eventually he decided that photography, not acting was the way to go.

This was Toby’s business for about six years. Covid put a stop to this work with actors not work. At that time Toby and her wife made a decision to relocate to Lincoln and Toby transitioned from photographing actors to working with people in business. Toby feels the styles he was using for acting headshots, he is now using in business headshots which means he has quite a unique style.

Marcus and Toby discussed that not that long ago a business headshot was a simple head and shoulder shot with a plain background. While now it has evolved into something much more. When Toby first started to work with businesses, while working with actors, he found it difficult trying to take those dull simple headshots. But now he does much more interesting ones for businesses.

Sam and Toby discuss the fact that people will make snap assumptions about you from your headshot. The headshot also becomes like a logo that people will recognise as they scroll through LinkedIn. Also this images needs to be updated and kept fresh from time to time. There is a balance in using these images between recognition and over exposure.
Marcus asks about the process. Toby says it’s all about the interaction with his clients and the photos are almost a bi-product of this. Toby has to build up the client to a point where the client will feel positive about the photos, but also positive enough so they feel able to use them on social media. He finds that on arrival customers tend to come with five minutes of “verbal vomit” where they make lots of negative comments about how they look. Toby lets them get this out but then starts to talk to them and build them up. Toby things it’s important to play for time. So gradually build them up let them get comfy in the space. He also spends more time than he needs faffing with equipment and getting “test shots”. During this time Toby is just building a relationship with them before he starts taking the photos. Then before long Toby can feel the trust has grown enough and he can start.
Sam and Marcus said this reminds them of the episode about listening with Colin D Smith where he said it was important to listen when people speak and relax into the space. Toby says when his clients leave they say they have had a great experience and are really looking forward to seeing their photographs.

Toby thinks he has lost some work to people using an AI app. But, Toby says he is not really concerned about this as the personal element in the headshot is so important. That building of confidence is so important. But Toby thinks also that AI will help with the post photoshoot work.
Toby said lots of photographers in the APHP helped him. Robin Savage, Nicolas Dawks, Gareth Bailey and Adam Hills. They let Toby come to sessions and assist on shoots, which really taught Toby an huge amount. He found these more inspirational than photographers he found online.

You can find Toby at

https://www.headshottoby.co.uk/

Sunjay Singh is this weeks guest. He is in the sales and marketing world. He has a video agency which he runs with his co-founder, live media UK and a small marketing company which provdes marketing managers for small businesses called Lambardar marketing.

Marcus asks how it started. Sunjay says Will (co-founder) and him had never had “proper jobs”. Sunjay said when he was 14 or 15 his Dad walked in told him he had to photograph a wedding and then left. Sunjay had never taken a picture before in his life. His Dad had always enjoyed photography, But he ended up working at British Aerospace. But his Dad  always had a side hustle and was doing two jobs. So for a while he did wedding video and photography and Sanjay was the photographer. The weddings were British Asian weddings which were a minimum of 3 day events. He said there were so many people, often 50 to 60 people in a 2 bedroom house in Cardiff. Each wedding day could be 14 hours. He could leave one day at 1am and be back the next day at 5am. He says he got better very quickly as he was talking so many pictures in such a short space of time.

They stopped doing British Indian weddings as the hours were so long and pay so low and moved onto British weddings.  But eventually he got fed up doing weddings, he had done too many. He was then getting more corporate work and they dropped weddings. But what that time gave him was a work ethic. Sunjay says if you want to get good at your craft, you have to do the reps. Do it again and again. It’s not just about working on one shot it’s about doing it again and again. If you are creative and not constantly developing your craft that is a dangerous place to be.

Now Sunjay is running a video agency using videographers who work for him. He also uses photographers in his agency. Sam asks how Sunjay decided which photographers to work with. Sanjay says that anyway running a business needs to wear many hats and possibly masks. When you are speaking to Sanjay and talking about logistics, don’t be a creative, at that point you need to be a business person. He says if it helps, where a tie when you do your emails. Get into the mindset of being a business person. When you are on the shoot, be creative. But be the reliable business person at other times, especially when discussing logistics. The other thing Sanjay looks for is composure. He needs them to be confident and composed. If the photographer doesn’t turn up composed and confident then that is hopeless. The photographers needs to stay calm no matter what the shoot throws at you.

Speed is another thing. Both getting the shot and getting the photographs back. Clients expect the photos back very quickly. They know it is digital and so expect the photographs very quickly.
Yous presentation is also important. Sanjay has seen too many scruffy photographers. By being scruffy you are showing don’t care about aesthetics. You are signalling that you don’t care about aesthetics which gives the wrong message.

Sam asks how a photographer can go about getting agency work. Sanjay says there is no clear answer, but the key thing is relationship building and being in the right place in the right time. For example Sanjay meets lots of photographers, but he doesn’t have a shoot that week and the photographers never get in touch again. They need to stay in touch.
Sanjay then says make a list of ten people you want to work with. Get in touch every month and then every other month arrange an in person meeting. Don’t chat work, or ask for work, just build a relationship and some of them will give you work.
 

Sanjay mentions a book The Creative Act, Rick Rubin. He says this is an amazing book.

You can connect with Sunjay on LinekdIn

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This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

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Marcus and Sam talk about what to do with a mailing list, once you have some people on it.

This week Marcus and Sam speak to Sonya Dove who is Wella’s Global Creative Director and Marcus’s big sister. Sonya has been with Wella for 40 years and hairdressing for 45 years. On a day to day basis Sonya travels around the US and Canada educating and mentoring hairdressers. She also does classes and photoshoots. Hairdressing has given her the opportunity to travel the world. She still travels at least two to three times per month.

Sonya says photoshoots can be for hairdressers, or for consumers. She used to work in a salon, but now with all her other work she does not have time for that. Sonya has had her work on the front of almost every hairdressing magazine. Sonya says it’s hard to find the right photographer for a hair photoshoot. Most photographers don’t focus on the hair in the right way. Lighting the hair right is really important. With darker hair colours this becomes harder. Getting the texture, colours and dimensions, especially with dark hair is very challenging. All other parts of the model and shot are extra. The hair is key. Sonya says she has done photoshoots where the detail of the hair is lost. However she realised that this was as much on her as the photographer as she hadn’t explained what she wants. As a solution to this she suggests mood boards are a great way to discuss this type of thing before the shoot.
Marcus says there is lots of work out there for hair and beauty photographers. If you think about all of the hair dressers and salons out there who need work, as well as manufacturers, the number of potential customers is huge. At the moment Sonya works with Richard Monsieurs. She has also worked with Marcus many times, Robert Lobetta and many more. Sonya says the personality of the photographer can make or break a photoshoot. They need to be calm, get on with everyone and really understand what is needed from the end result.

Sonya says there is huge amount of potential work as a hair photographer, even at a local level with all the salons.
Studio photography is safe as you can totally control the lighting and environment. But Sonya also says this can be very sterile as sets need to be build or use green screen. So these are great for some shoots, but she prefers location shoots for the atmosphere. But for the photographer there is less control. That background provides so much for the shot. But outside there can be issues with heat, rain, wind, etc. Sonya says she did a shot in the desert which was quite complex and the poor model started to get sun burnt.

Marcus asks if hair shoots are moving to more on location out of studio shoots. Sonya says yes. Campaigns are getting out of the studio and moving to more editorial, lifestyle of shoot and campaign. The idea is the campaigns try to look like getting great hair is simple and easy to do.
Marcus asks how a photographer could get into hair photography. Sonya says going to shows is great for building a network. The next thing is putting you out on social media as a hair photographer. Explain you are looking for hairdressers to help them show off their work. Competitions are great to enter and can help boost your visibility.  If you go to a brand they will want to see your portfolio and you’ll need at least twenty stunning shots. So the best thing is start with this and move on to brands once you have experience and a great portfolio.

Sonya explains that hair photography is lots of fun and a very lucrative area of photography. She has worked with a range of photographers with a lot of different approach to retouching. Some people she works with do very little retouching , but spend a lot of time getting the initial shot perfect. Other photographers do lots of retouching. And during a shoot the photographer needs to be talking to the team on a photoshoot to ensure everything goes as they want.

You can get hold of Sonya here

Insta

@thesonyadive

FB

SonyaDove

 Marcus talks through his customers' experience
Marcus’s customer journey

Marcus likes to respond initial enquiries quickly, ideally within an hour. He then moves on to trying to setup a Zoom call. As photography is visual, having a visual call is really important. That call is all about listening not selling. Zoom also means ideas can be shared visually.
After this Marcus will send out a quote, which is done automatically using his CRM. So Marcus doesn’t really talk much about pricing in that initial call, that comes in with the quote goes out.
If the job goes ahead Marcus sets up another Zoom call before the shoot. This is a very creative call, talking about clothes, props and locations. It’s also a great way to get clients used to working you before you even meet.
People don’t like being photographed.
Marcus think in the UK people would prefer to go to the dentist than have their photograph taken. That means photographers need lots of...

Techniques to relax people
Chatting to them
Ask them about what people do, what they did at the weekend etc. All the classic questions to try and engage people.
Get people involved in the process

Shooting tethered means subjects can see the results of the photographs on the screen. They can then engage much more actively with the photography.   Ask them about clothes, props and angles.

Things Marcus does
Observe

Marcus observes people intently. He is looking for things they naturally do and then asks them to do those in the photos. It might be a way they hold their head or a way they hold their hands.

Mirror

This is either you showing them something and ask them to follow it. Or even better if you can quickly build rapport you can get them to just automatically copy you. So for example if you cross your arms they do it to.
Direct

This is the classic of the photographer telling the subject what to do.

After the shoot

Initially Marcus narrows the photos down to about forty or fifty photos that he sends to the client via an online platform. He has found sending more than this just confuses the client. These photos have had a light edit, but not much more.  From then what happens depends on the client. Some keep all the images, some make a selection.

 This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠01482 765871
This week Sam talks about apps you can use in your business.

Accounting apps

This is a vital part of all of our businesses. This can be done on excel, but this doesn’t give you much business information. The app also makes your life easy in many ways. Once the template is set up sending invoices is quick and easy. The app also gives you key business information in the form of reports. It also makes paying VAT easy. Xero and Quickbooks are the biggest players in town. Zoho Books is an option and can integrate with other apps. There is also Wave which is much simpler than ⁠Xero⁠ and ⁠Quickbooks  but has some free features. The free  version is great but Sam doesn’t rate the premium version
Project / business management
These are effectively ways to organise your to do lists. We can get overloaded with post it notes, pieces of paper etc. These help us get more organised. They are great for repeating task lists that you can use for consistency with every customer. It also helps with tracking the day to day tasks you need to do.  The main apps here are Monday Asana and Trello. These do very similar things but in different ways. They all have free trials, so you can try them and see which one you like. For most photographers the free version of these will do the jobs you need.
CRM
This is a customer relationship management tool. Many CRMS do a wide range of tasks. But, at that core they track all of the people you speak to and every conversation you have had with them. You can click on someone and see all the email, phone call and other conversations you have had with this person. It also allows you to set reminders to help you get back to leads or customers at the right time.  Most CRMs also do many other things such as email marketing and landing pages. Marcus uses Studio Ninja which is photography specific. Sam says it’s easy to setup CRMs as as soon as anyone emails you they are entered automatically into the CRM.
There are lots of CRMS. Sam uses Hubspot free version and has done for 6 years. There is also Freshworks and of course Zoho. Sam says in terms of a CRM, a photography business is like any other so Sam doesn’t see how useful a photography specific CRM would be.

Book an appointment app
Marcus brings these up as useful apps. They all do a similar thing. They hook up to your diary and allow people to book appointments. They work well. Marcus uses Calendly and Sam uses Doodle. It does save a lot of time going back and forth organising appointments.

AI
Sam says AI like ChatGPT is really useful for all sorts of things. For example checking a contract you’ve written, changing a blog into a LinkedIn article, giving you blog ideas etc. Don’t use it for creating content though.
Communication Apps

WhatsApp Business is a great app. WhatsApp is a great way to communicate with customers and leads. It looks more professional that standard WhatsApp and is free. Slack is great if there are several people in your business. If there is just you it’s a waste of time. But if there is several of you it is a great way to organise the communication within your business.

The ten principals of Flash Photography

These apply to all types of light including natural light.
1. There are only two types of light, hard light and soft light. Hard light is the sort of light you would get at midday in a sunny place. Very contrasting light. The imagine it’s a cloudy day then the light becomes soft.

2. The closer the light is to the subject, the softer the light. And so the further away the light is to the subject the harder the light.

3 As you move the light source from the subject, the light intensity drops very quickly. If you double the distance the light is from the subject you quarter the amount of light that reaches the subject.

4. The harder the light is the more contrast you have. Contrast is highlights and shadows. The harder the light the further away from each other the highlights and shadows become. So in soft light the highlights and shadows are closer and have more variations in between.

5. A shadow will have a hard edge with high contrast from a hard light. It will have a soft edge and low contrast from a soft light

6. Light can be direct or indirect / bounced. A direct light comes straight from the light source. Indirect light is often bounced off something like a ceiling or reflector. By reflecting the light you are changing the size of the light source.

7. Light travels in straight lines, unless it meets an obstruction. So particles of light behave like snooker balls, they bounce off objects. Grids are objects that go over lights to channel the light to prevent it spreading out and as hard light is becoming more popular, so are these.

8. Light coming from the side of a subject will show more texture than a front on light. You can see this in landscape photography, when photographers tend to like early morning or late evening light, when the light is coming from the side, which gives more texture.

9. Flash light varies in speed. The speed of a flash is measured using it’s T number. If you are capturing moving subjects, like sports then you need very fast flashes so that you freeze the action

10. If using flash outside, especially on a sunny day you will need a much more powerful flash than you would indoors. So for indoor photography you don’t need that much power from your flash.

Suzanne has been working fo the last 16 years as a personal stylist. Once people find what clothes suit them and work for them, shopping and dressing becomes so much easier.

Suzanne was nurse for a while, but decided it wasn’t for her. She then studied fashion and worked for various high street brands. From there she had her own shop. After she closed that business she trained as a stylist and has been working as a stylist ever since. Suzanne’s shop was a ladies accessory shop with a café. Marcus points out that twenty years ago having a café in a shop has ahead of it’s time.

She trained and then worked with the House of Colour in Watford.

Suzanne says now she tends to work with 40 plus business people. And the proportion of men she is working with is gradually increasing. With lockdown and the use of Zoom men are spending a lot more time looking at themselves and either getting bored with what they see or deciding they want some help with styling. We have spoken to a male stylist Nick Hemms.
Suzanne works as a stylist with one photographer in particular, Suzanne Fells. She helps Suzanne's clients helping them find clothes that are appropriate before a photo shoot. This allows them to arrive at the photo shoot stress free, prepared and more in control.

Marcus has asked what Suzanne does if brand colours don’t suit a client going for a brand photoshoot. She says in that case she aims for neutral colours that fit them and the brand.
Sam asks how she goes about finding what colours work for people. Suzanne says its about skin tone. She starts with the primary colours, red, yellow and blue. Once she has looked at skin tone and the colours she works out which work best together. Marcus asks how she makes sure that the clothes people  where are authentic. Suzanne says it’s a lot about asking lots of questions about there current clothes and lifestyle. And asking lots of questions as people try different clothes.

Suzanne has regular photo shoots for her business with Suzanne Fells. Suzanne says that with all of the photos you can ensure you look authentic on social media while using all these new images.

Marcus asks Suzanne to share some hints for photographers. Suzanne know how many outfits a client is going to need. Talk to them about ensuring they are clean and ironed and take them I a bag that won’t crease them. Ensure the clients give themselves plenty of time before the shoot to sort their hair and make up. Marcus asks about colours. She says some colours are universal and work well for lots of people like teal and coral. Some light colours can look washed out in photos. Suzanne says dark colours, not necessarily black, give people authority. A jacket also tends to give authority. Suzanne also says those with brighter eyes tend to be able to wear brighter clothes.

Suzanne also advices women on make up and hair colour. Marcus points out that we had a whole show about hair colour with Sonya Dove. Changing hair colour can change what clothes and colours work for them.

Suzanne suggests that people get a style review every few years as skin tone and hair colour changes. Marcus asks about make up brands. Suzanne says she works with Colour me beautiful which is a colour based make up brand. She also no 7

recommends No 7. IN terms of make up for photo shoots, Suzanne says neutral is good, don’t go too bright. Chanel have a virtual lipstick app so you can try different colours of lipstick.  

Marcus says working with a clothing stylist is great for a photographer. Sam says although adding a stylist adds cost to the shoot, it does add a lot of value.Marcus asks if Suzanne could share a women and a man she would like to work with. Suzanne says she’d love to work with Mary Berry. She thinks she could work with Mary’s make up. Suzanne says she’d love to work on Boris Johnson and tidy him up.

Sam and Marcus have a cozy fireside Christmas chat about the podcast over the last year. Marcus refers back to our very first show Degree or disagree. Marcus loves this for the content of the show and for the pun. This is always a debate that stirs up a lot of emotion.

Sam refers back to the show on networking. As networking is such an important part of your marketing for photographers. Marcus thinks thinks networking in person will be a great place to focus for 2024. He is going to try to do more face to face networking next year. He touches on the idea that it can be better to have a small strong community than a wide shallow pool of connections.  
Marcus then talks about the show we did with Colin Smith the listening guy Marcus thinks that taking part in the show has made Sam and him better listeners and better podcasts hosts.
Sam talks about the show with Donna Green. That show stands out for Sam because she was so organised. She had all her processes and systems very well organised.

AI- Friend or Foe

On this weeks podcast Sam Hollis and Marcus Ahmad talk about AI. How long has it really been with us? How has it been utilised by photographers in the past and how much are you really using it already? Almost certainly since the onset of digital photography. Then we move onto the AI of today, ChatGPT and other tools. Are they a friend or foe and how could we make the best use of them to our advantage as photographers?

What surprises Marcus is the speed at which current AI technologies have improved so rapidly. And Sam is finding out how AI can help photographers transition from technicians to directors.

Along the way we chat about

The Yamaha DX7 keyboard

What’s an art director?

ChatGPT

The James Web Space Telescope

And you can always find us at the Shoot to the Top website.

 Today’s topic is creativity.

The 5 R’s of Creativity !

1. Rules

 •  Learn them

•  Break them

•  Make your own

We take a classic “rule” - the Rule of Thirds.

Initially learn the rule inside out so you don’t have to think about it - it’s internalised. Then you can move onto the next stage where you purposefully break the rule. In this case placing objects of interest say in the centre or dividing the frame into quarters.

Then the final stage is where your own rule is incorporated into your style. Think Hiroshi Sugimoto and his work entitled Seascapes. Where the horizon line is in the centre and he has done this over and over again.

2. Research

Though I take my lead from academia, research does not need to be “dry” ie dull and tedious. Though good research is not done via the internet! Far better to go took bookshops and go to the art department. The vast majority of established artists and photographers work is not available via the internet it is found in galleries and books.

Books are a more immersive experience - the touch, the smell, the weigh etc give a deeper learning experience. We discuss the classic book Robert Frank- Les Americains (1959)

Galleries are great places because you get to see the print up close and you can see the subtleties of the tones.

When studying these greats think of not HOW yet have taken the photographs but WHY- a far more interesting question! We go on to discuss movies as they can be a great source of inspiration - Wenders, Hitchcock and Kubrick as well as good quality documentaries.

3 Reflection

Give yourself time to really look at your work -what works well what doesn’t. Be critical (in a positive) Print your work out and that will help.

4 Repeat

Don’t be seduced into thinking you need to go to exotic locations to improve your photography. You will make greater improvements by going back to the same place over and over again. In this way you can build on your skills in a creative way.

5 Rest

This is different to reflection. It is about giving yourself time just to think and let the creative juices flow. Sometimes the best ideas come when you least expect

Links

https://www.sugimotohiroshi.com/seascapes-1

https://www.lensculture.com/articles/robert-frank-the-americans

The Genius of Photography - well worth a look,if you can find it!

Craig helps lots of people to enhance their presence on LinkedIn and generate leads and calls on LinkedIn. Craig used to work in recruitment after leaving the forces. His last employed job was working for Indeed.com. He was using LinkedIn to get leads as he hated making calls. He discovered a great way to get leads from LinkedIn. His boss noticed that Craig was getting lots of leads without making any calls and wanted to know why. Craig was asked to train the team. The Craig realised that he could sell this training to others. DuringCOVID, he lost his job as he was recruited into the hospitality sector, which was not needed.

Craig is going to talk about the use of direct messaging on LinkedIn. He thinks lots of people avoid this. And lots of people who do use DMs mis-use them. Lots of people send a huge sales message just after connecting. This approach is a highvolume, low conversion rate approach. Craig tries to help people to get the foundations right. It is important to get your profile optimised before you hit the DMs as your profile will affect your connection acceptance rate.

Then have a strategy for your connections. Build a report with people you are connecting with. Sending personalised connection messages is a good start. And complimenting them on things you have spotted on their profile or their content. Commenting on their comments on a post is another approach. Also he says be focused on who you connect with. Be laser focussed. Small numbers of high quality connections rather than bulk numbers of connections.
He says we then need to be building rapport with connections. But at the same time, find the pain points of individuals so you can guide them to becoming a customer. Craig says asking multiple choice questions can work well. It’s easy for them to respond and you can make the answers linked to the services you offer.
Marcus reviews the LinkedIn Shows we have had.
Gareth Wax – profiles

Jeff Brown – LinkedIn newsletterMartyn Slowman – slow sales

 Craig says it’s important to be making comments on someone's posts before chatting on DMs. Before connecting, like and comment on content and engage with them. It’s aboutbuilding trust. Also liking and commenting on content tends to be reciprocal. By the time you send a DM, you have already interacted several times.
He says there are 4 pillars in LinkedIn

1.     Profile that’s optimised for conversion

2.     You have to be creating content regularly

3.     Comments

4.     DMs
He says there are 4 key pillars to content

1.     Personal content – build likeability

2.     Sales content – positions your offer

3.     Authority content – educational content

4.     Opinion content – position yourself as a thoughtleader

You can find ⁠Craig on LinkedIn here

The first Shoot to the Top Webinar is on the 2nd of April and it’s all about getting higher value clients for your business. ⁠To find out more and book click here.⁠

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Martyn is a sales trainer; he is a non-pushy sales trainer. Everything he helps with is non-pushy selling. It’s all about helping, the opposite of the cheesy 1980s pushy salesman. Marcus asks what social selling means. This is around social media. If your customer is on a platform it makes sense to be on that platform and interact with them there. Martyn says his target market is LinkedIn so he is on there at least once a day. He says social media allows us to share what we do without being “shouty”. Marytn was either making a video a day or a blog a day to keep getting content out there.

Sam asks about moving people from social to being more firm leads and how to do that. Martyn says he is waiting for them to direct themselves to him, or refer people to him. Martyn says being in sales and not performing is a very difficult place to be as there is lots of pressure from home and work.
Martyn says he found Daniel Disney  was a game changer for him in terms of the way he approached social selling. Martyn recommends this book as a good place to start: The Ultimate Linkedin Sales Guide and the Ultimate Guide to Linkedin Messaging.

Marcus asks what makes a good salesman. He says the best salespeople are slightly introverted and great listeners. We have a past show about being a good listener

A desire to help and curiosity. Curiosity is really important. Great listening means great questions. If you are having problems in sales, questions can help you. What questions could you have asked to get a better result on a sales call?

These could be bold or challenging questions. This still isn’t pushing, it’s showing you are trying to help. Asking questions can mean you offer a solution to their problem that they hadn’t thought of. Martyn says you are trying to be an advisor, not a salesman looking for a close.

Sam asks after this gently, gently approach do you need to then apply a little pressure for a decision. Martyn says there are three things around this.

1.     People need to prepare better

2.     They need to ask better questions

3.     You need to agree on mutual actions during your current discussion.

So this final part says you have pre-determined what you will both do after the call. So this isn’t a hard close but it’s about asking if they want help with their problem. He also suggests sending the quote with a title that will get their attention. Maybe linked to something that they are trying to achieve. Also in your call make sure you book the next time you are going to speak, so you never lose track of the conversation.

You can find Martyn

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Martin is a general practice photographer based in Holmes Chapel in Cheshire in the UK. Martin has been shooting photos for 30 years. He started doing weddings with his Dad back in the 90s in the South East of England. They started shooting a friends wedding and it went from there.
Martin’s Dad then got the idea of dog photographs. They would go along to dog training classes, take photographs of the dogs and then sell them the next week for five pounds each.
Martin moved from the South East to Cheshire and so had to move his business. He said he didn’t plan this very well. Martin ended up for several years after the move, going back down to Kent taking photographs. Martin did join a networking group in Cheshire and that has really helped him move his business to Cheshire. Martin also says that the business networking got him as much family work (weddings etc) as commercial work. Martin also found the networking got him introduced to owners of wedding venues.  Just as Martin was building the business in Cheshire covid hit which effected his business. But he pivoted and moved to product photography and camper van photography. Martin says he shot his last pre-covid wedding in 2023 which shows how big a delay covid put on events like this.
Martin studies photography at school, but he only did this as the school wouldn’t let him do pottery. So he has a GCSE in photography. He then also followed this up with a btech in photography. He says he wasted his time there, not making use of all the amazing equipment that was available.
When the business started Martin’s dad was doing a  lot of the business side of the work. Martin unfortunately lost his Dad, who was also his business partner in the early two thousands. He hobbled on for a while after this before getting a job in a professional studio as a photographer. He moved up to running a studio and it taught him lots about running a business.  After working for the studio Martin, at the age of 30, in 2008 (time of the financial crisis) decided to go and work in a bank. Martin lasted nine months before realising that corporate life wasn’t for him.
While working at the bank Martin bought his first digital camera and had already been back doing photos at dog training. Martin then managed to break his foot, skateboarding when about to restart his photography business. This meant is as a dark time as he had no money coming in, but it gave him a chance to plan the business, rather than just jumping in. Martin decided he wanted to get into music photography so started to promote some local bands. He then ended up at bloodstock, a heavy metal festival. He won an award for one of his photographs. He also started to work for Q magazine.
As Martin got older had a son he decided he didn’t want to be out in the evenings so moved over for more corporate work. Marcus is really mainly focussed on head shot work now. He has various health conditions that mean he struggles now with weddings and long events. Martin says that he talks to other photographers who have health issues that effects their work. He thinks important that we are open about health issues and not hiding them away.
Marcus says other photographers are some of his main referrers. When he moved to Cheshire he initially joined a lot of Facebook groups and quickly got second shooter work. This then meant he got to know local photographers and soon they were referring work to him.
Martin’s one piece of advice for photographers starting out is to assist a top professional photographer. Learn from people at the top of their game.

https://www.martinhobby.co.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinhobby/

This is the Christmas show. Sam is going to share three things you need to do in the new year while Marcus is going to make some predictions for the next year.

Sam says the first thing to do is look at your marketing numbers for the year. Find out where your customers come from. Then look at the time (and this part will be an estimate) spent on different marketing activities. Then compare them. How much income has each marketing activity generated compared to the time you spent on it? Then evaluate. What marketing are you doing that is working and what do you need to stop doing? It will probably be following the 80/20 rule where 20% of your marketing activity generates 80% of your income. You just need to work out which 20% of your marketing activity that 20% is. Marcus suggests you could also do this with your camera equipment and work out what you use all of the time and might need a spare of and what you hardly ever use and so could possibly sell.

The number two thing to focus on for Sam is to build your mailing list. This is vital. Lots of people you speak to might be interested in your work, but not now. This is a great way to stay in touch with those leads. We have lots of shows talking about how to build your email list and what to do with your email list including these:

Email marketing part one

Email marketing part two

The third thing to focus on is LinkedIn. Both Jeff Brown and Gareth Wax have been on the show talking about LinkedIn recently. So Sam says to look at your LinkedIn profile over the new year. Listen to Jeff and Gareth’s shows and then review your profile. Review every part of it.

Marcus is going with three predictions. He thinks that there will be an increase in the popularity of film (35mm) cameras. He thinks this will just be for personal use. Pentax is making a new film camera and new film manufacturers are appearing on the market. You can see our show about the film here .

Marcus sees photography AI not catching on next year. He is referring to image creation. Marcus thinks that this will become unpopular. Sam counters this explaining that it will improve and so could grow.

Marcus’s third prediction is that there are going to be fewer weddings next year. Marcus says there is a COVID knock-on in that people didn’t get together during COVID-19 and so there are now, a few years later, fewer weddings. Marcus thinks the photography market is going to get more challenging next year. He thinks that some photographers who started during COVID may quit leaving fewer photographers overall.

Sam looks at the UK population data and says there are fewer people in the mid-20s age range which could affect weddings, and fewer babies being born, affecting newborn photography. But we can also use the data to see where the population bulges are and think what kind of photography they might need. There are peaks at 10, 11 12-year-olds another peak at 30 to 40-year-olds, but a dip in the mid-40s, and a bulge again at late 50s and early 60s.

It would be good to also look at the local population near you.

Marcus thinks there could be growth in some different areas, perhaps funeral photography. He also suggests divorce photography, but Sam isn’t sure about that one.

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There is an event for photographers about using website and email strategies for business success. This is run by Sam and Gillian Devine on the 27th November 2024.

You can get more details and book a free place by clicking here.

Sam and Marcus say that some photographers websites have no writing at all, which is terrible for SEO and getting business. Some things to think about before writing your website are:

• Make sure you know your target audience – See this show for details.
• What your call to actions are –see this show for details.
• Plan your site – see this show for details.

Once you have all of those things done you can start the writing.

While you are writing think constantly about your ideal client. What are their problems, why are they coming to you?

If your writing is too generic it doesn’t engage anyone.
Be concise. We all know our businesses too well and can give far too much detail. Avoid this. Be clear and concise. Too many options causes confusion.

When writing a page be very concise at the top of a page. So the first 5 sentences at the top of the page should cover everything needed for the page. But then further down the page go back to the different topics and dig into more detail. Then even further down the page circle back and give even more details about the same topics.
You need to think about keywords. You can listen to the SEO shows here about keywords. It’s important to use the keyword / phrase enough on a page, but without going mad and including it in every sentence.

Focus on feelings, outcomes and results. Don’t focus on the nuts and bolts of what is included in a package. Focus on what you will gain from working with you in a big picture way. How will they feel working with you? People buy with feelings and then justify their purchase with logic.Testimonials can help with this. Ask clients to mention feelings in testimonials.
Remember that no one will browse your website for no reason. They are coming to your website because they have a problem and they are wondering if you can solve it for them.
Sam does not recommend a testimonial pages. He recommends spreading testimonials across all of your pages, not all of them in one page.

Know what you readers care about.

About pages. Sam says please don’t tell the story of how you got a camera when you were 12 and fell in love with photography. Every photographers site says this. Remember that people care about themselves, and the problem they are trying to solve. So an about page works best if it’s about how you have helped people in the past with your photography. Some small snippets about your life is great, but that’s not the aim of the about page.
Structuring your pages using bullet points, numbers lists, sub-headings really helps make it easy to follow.

Marcus asks about the use of AI. Sam says AI is great for helping but not creating. So give it your writing and ask for ideas. But don’t use AI to create content.

Repetition. People do not read your website like a book. They jump from place to place and so you need to repeat lots to ensure all visitors get your key messages.

Allie used to lecture and the  decided to walk away when she had a photograph hanging in a gallery alongside work by Martin Parr. Allie started photography when she was 16 or 17 shooting black and white with film. But Allie had a difficult childhood and so felt she had to get a “sensible” degree so she did a degree in English literature. She then taught, until she felt she had been “bled dry”. When her daughter was in her teens Allie Crewe went to night school to study photography. Allie had already studied film and Italian at night school and loved learning.

Allie’s journey from night class to gallery was an interesting one. Her first tutor thought an image (you can see it here), the one hanging on Allie’s wall behind us as we record the podcast, had something about it. So her tutor sent it to a curator. wasn’t sure about it being sent, but her tutor sent it while Allie was taking a break in the loo. Her work was accepted and ended up in a gallery amongst lots of photographs by high calibre male photographers. She came home three mornings afterwards and decided that she would leave the security of teaching and move to being a photographer.

It changed her life. From that initial success Allie has quickly enjoyed a lot of success. She had an exhibition about domestic violence that was opened by Queen Camilla. And that bought a lot of press and publicity.

Allie is unsure as to whether she could have managed this work when she was younger. All the work has been about her in some way. She has started her work thinking about herself and then connected to a group and the work then becomes about the group. One example of this was her work with trans women. Allie’s work has appeared in many national papers including the Guardian, the Telegraph and the Sun. She enjoys the social conscience work and making work that is relevant to people who want change. And she enjoys being authentic and becoming part of the group she is working with.
Allie has won several awards including the BJP (British Journal of Photography) award. She got this with an image of Grace, a doctor. Allie feels that the award was a way of validating herself. Allie explained that this is a male dominated industry with a 40% pay gap. She felt this award made her feel validated and helped with imposter syndrome. But as well as the positives awards add pressure including pressure to get more. Allie also has an award from the RPS (Royal Photography Society).

Allie is currently studying for her masters at Ulster and in her first year her tutor was Ken Grant. He is now with Donovan Wylie. She was with ken at Martin Parr’s studio for a few days. It was there she got asked to enter the RPS award.
Sam and Allie discussed the idea that there are awards at every level that photographers can go for and these wards are great for your marketing. But equally this is not compulsory as a photographer. We can as photographers do work just for ourselves.
Allies Instagram references Chris Killip who is a photographer she is drawn to. She found his recent exhibition very emotional. Allie has been careful in her masters to only reference female photographers, but personally she likes all sorts of photographers.
Alessandra Sanguinetti has an amazing book called "Some say Ice". Alys Tomlinson is also an influence who Allie was looking at on the morning of our conversation.
Allie still shots film, 35mm and medium format. She loves her Mamiya camera.
Marcus asks Allie how people can get into shooting portraits for exhibitions magazines and books. Allie explains that for her she chose something than was personal and took it from there. She worked as an artist in residency with the help of her connections (ones she had worked hard to build). From that starting point she felt the artistic residency gave her the legitimacy she needed when showing her work or entering it for competitions.

The first Shoot to the Top Webinar is on the 2nd of April and it’s all about getting higher value clients for your business. ⁠⁠⁠⁠To find out more and book click here.⁠⁠⁠

Dan started as an engineer and then moved over to running a photography business. Dan got a studio early in his career. When he started, there was a group of local businesseswith a shared space where he started with a desk. Then, as others left, he took over more of the space to make it his studio.
Sam likes a few things on his website, especially the call to action “apply to work with us”.  Dan said he got the ideafrom the book “Booked Solid” by Paul J DiGrigoli

It gives the impression that he is so busy that you have to apply to work with him as he is so busy. Dan has upended his about page, making it entirely about the visitor, not about him.

Marcus asks about the video and Dan said he got into this due to demand rather than it being something he wanted to do. Dan outsources any work he gets in. So, he works as a creative director, but the sub-contractor films and edits the videos.he says there are lots of freelancers out there who can work with you. Dan says that estimating the edit time is one of the most challenging parts of a video quote.

Marcus asks Dan about his style and he says his style develops as you shoot rather than trying to force a style upon your work.
Sam asks Dan about his niching as his work is very niched. Dan says this is largely based on his background and who he knew when he was an engineer. Although initially he was very general, he then focused on a niche. Dan said he found that once he niched, everything became much easier in terms of marketing and getting referrals. Dan said the secret of niching is also that you don’t have to stick to your niche with your work, only in your marketing. Sam also discussed the idea that niching allows you to charge more as you are a specialist, not ageneralist.
Dan has a group he has put together called fathers of Focus. This is a group for photographers that he runs. Dan wants to help others. He finds that the business side of the business is something he enjoys and has lots of experience with. While many photographers don’t feel confident in this area. So the group is to bring photographers together and give them confidence in running their business. The group is aimed at family focused men. To find out more about the group, youcan visit them here.

Dan Barker is a former aerospace engineer who now runs a photography and video production business focused on helping manufacturers. 

After picking up a camera in 2012 to help with his wife's business, he realised how much he enjoyed photography. Making time to teach himself about photography and business while working full-time in aerospace engineering, he gradually began to pick up paying clients.

He has a successful business which supports his family and now he helps others do the same through his mastermind community Fathers of Focus.

To get the Shoot to the Top Podcast in your inbox every week to ensure you don't miss an episode,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠click here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

You can connect with Dan on LinkedIn here

Anthony is going to be talking about photography apprentices. He has been a photographer for many years but was recently approached to create a photography apprenticeship. He says he has a learner who, four months in, is taking amazing photographs.

Anthony explains what the apprenticeship looks like from the point of view of a photographer and apprentice.

For the photographer, you have a full-time member of staff.

The staff have training once per month online. They also get skills coach learning and that involves the photographer and the apprentice.

From the apprenticeship point of view, you are with “ real photographers” and learning from them. Sam asks if you are a photographer why do you want an apprentice. Anthony says it is pointless if you don’t have work for them and can’t afford them. Perfect for those with studios or perhaps wedding photographers who need multiple people taking shots at each wedding. The apprentice needs to be paid at least the apprentice minimum wage, which is around £7.40 an hour. Even if you take new staff on they always need training, even if they have a degree.

An apprenticeship is an 18-month course and so usually the apprentice is trying to prove themselves over those 18 months so will always be working hard. At the end of 18 months, a photographer has a choice between moving the apprentice to being an employee or letting them go and moving on.

Marcus asks what the difference is between an assistant and an apprentice. Anthony says it is basically the same, but there is a training framework and an end exam with the apprenticeship.

Anthony says apprenticeships now are much better than they used to be for both the learner and photographer.

Anthony works for the JGA group in his apprentice work.

If you want to move forward with an apprentice contact the JGA group here.

He says you can ask JGA to find an apprentice for you. But it often works better to find one yourself. His advice is to find a person who is passionate rather than qualified for this.

The 18 months is a commitment. There are ways out if there is a major difficulty but the business really needs to commit for the full 8 months.

Marcus asks how the apprenticeship works with portfolio building and if is there much cultural studies. Anthony says they have teamed up with the BIPP to help the apprentices build a portfolio. As part of the course, they must build a 20-photo portfolio. The portfolio also goes to the BIPP so that they can get an award there too.

Anthony says the cultural studies are not structured as they would be in university, but they end up being discussed as part of the learning days.

Sam asks what you should do if you want to become a photographer apprentice. He said to go to the government apprentice website you can find the documents available. You can also find employers that are looking for apprentices on indeed.com.

It is key for a new apprentice to find an employer to work with on the apprenticeship. He says one of the simplest things you can do is pick up the phone and call a photographer.

Marcus asks what photographers get paid once they have done an apprenticeship. Anthony says it varies. The apprentice minimum wage is £7.50 an hour. That is the minimum. Some are salaried at a higher rate. After 12 months an apprentice then needs to move up to the national minimum wage. Most photographers will then be paid £18 to £20k as a starting salary.

Sam asks if the apprentices are taught how to run a business as that is so important for so many photographers.

Paul Cooper has been a professional photographer for over 30 years. He is currently a commercial photographer. But, in the last 30 years he has shot most types of photography. His photography business Baily-Cooper Photography is run with his wife. They also have a photography education business called Master your Photography. Master your photography caters for everyone from someone who wants to buy a photographer and doesn’t know what to buy, to professional mentoring.
Before Paul was a professional photographer, he was an amateur photographer. His parents got him a camera when he was 18. Him and his wife married, and photography was still a hobby. Paul worked for ten years in IT working on the first PCs that came out. After ten years Paul took the leap and setup the business. As the business grew, they realised they needed a second photographer in the business, so Paul’s wife left her job and joined him. Paul then got his professional qualifications with the British Institute of Professional Photography and the Master Photography Association. This process was back in the days when the training available was through face-to-face meetings in the associations.

Marcus asks how Paul and his wife divide up the work. Paul says that Kate his wife tends to do babies, young children and families. He tends to do corporate work, and then they come together for big projects. But they can mix it around as they wish.
Sam asks why they are a limited company as many photographers don’t do this. Paul said they did this years ago on the advice of their accountant. He also thinks for larger jobs it can give more kudos.
They discuss style and developing a style and having a passion for it. Initially photographers tend to copy other photographers and then go on to use those influences to develop their own style. Paul says that many photographers don’t understand lighting and it is a very important factor. He says his business has spent more money and time on lighting than on cameras. There is another podcast about lighting here.

Sam asks Paul about the teaching side of the business. Paul says customers tend to come from the photography work they do anyone. For example, clients chat about a camera they have and don’t know how to use. He does offer videos etc. but many people want to come into the studio and lean how to use their camera face to face. They will also go into business and work with a group of people to help them do things like get their own PR shots.  Paul says that with just a little training people can take much better photographs. Paul’s main advice for students is just to go out and use your camera as much as you can.
Marcus asks Paul if he has any favourite photographers. Paul says Bob Carlos Clark. Bob gave Paul the inspiration to become a photographer. Later Paul went to his studio and Bob made him a frittata in his studio! He was a boudoir photographer before that was really a “thing”.

Marcus asks Paul to explain his roll with the Master Photographers Association. Paul has been on the qualifications side. Photographers can put a panel into the qualification panel for judging. Paul says the two reasons a photographer would want to get a qualification. Firstly, it pushes you creatively. Secondly, it’s good from a marketing perspective. You can shout out about the qualification, and it differentiates you from other photographers. The qualification process is that a photographer has to put together a “panel” of around twenty photographs. All of those should be photographs you have been commissioned to take. They can’t be from personal projects.

This show is about how to be seen as an expert in a particular topic without being seen as a poser and a know-it-all. How do we get that balance?
The relevance of building a position of authority is linked to the type of photography you do.
How can you build authority?
Posting authoritative content on Linkedin. Use your knowledge and experience to help people rather than explain things to them. And in helping them, you are building your authority. Engaging and commenting on other people's content also helps build your authority and give you a good reputation, as you are helping others get their content found too.

Blogging

This is again helping people, and people will realise you are an expert by reading your blogs. Having your blogs focussed on one area, linked to your area of expertise and focussing your blogs on this area
Webinars

These are a great way to show people you are an expert
Podcasts

Being a guest on a podcast can show you to be an expert inyour area. Our guest Toby Lee (listen to our interview with him here) is an expert at this. Another guest, Martin Hobby (listen to our interview with him here), is very good at building his authority
Offline

Speaking events: Speak at networking events or biggerevents. This shows you to be an expert. People presume you are an expert as you are on that stage.

TestimonialsThese are other people saying what an expert you are.

Avoid self-deprecationIn the UK, we often self-deprecate rather than promote ourselves. You can come across as an expert without being pushy or showy.

Denise Brady has been a food photographer for two and a half years. She is based on the East coast of the UK in Suffolk. Before this she was doing weddings and family photography, but Covid meant Denise had to pivot her business and moved to food photography. Denise’s photography journey began on her wedding day. When she got the images back from her wedding day she didn’t like them, and said she could have done better herself, which her husband laughed at. Denise had done photography in her youth but stopped. The next Christmas her husband bought her a Nikon digital camera. Later that year she was asked to photograph a wedding for a friend of her daughter. Denise tried to turn it down but her husband said no, this is your chance to show you can do better. So, Denise shot the wedding for free. The couple were pleased with the photos and paid Denise for them. It then built from there until Covid.

Marcus says in fashion the photographers are often not that interested in fashion. So he wondered if she liked food. Denise loves food and was as up with great home cooked food as a child. Marcus asks if Denise has read the book Toast by Nigel Slater. Denise says her cook book shelf is about a meter and a half long. She says if a food photo doesn’t make your mouth water and invoke a memory then it’s not doing it’s job.

Denise loves to use natural light. She can use lighting but uses natural light for all her photos. She will use bounce boards to get light into a shot and blackboards to take light out of a shot. She will use foils and scrims to block out and filter bright direct light on sunny days. On a flat light day her works becomes easier. The hardest days to work on are ones with sunshine and showers so the sun is constantly coming in and out. Denise likes to get the white balance right in shot rather than afterwards. There is a show all about lighting, the ten principles of flash photography.

Denise’s preference is to take dark and moody shots. Some clients need light and airy shots and she is. Sam asks how she found it finding clients with the move to food. This was very challenging at the start as Covid hit the entertainment industry so hard. Denise has found that she has to be flexible in her approach and work within a clients budget, which can be limited.
Denise’s son in law is a chef. He has been very helpful to her and means she has someone to go to, to ask questions when she doesn’t understand things within the industry. Denise says plating is important and changing all the time. Denise has a particular style. She tried other things like the floating burgers and stop motion, but she prefers to work in her style. Marcus refers back to the recent Joe Giacomet show  as he has been making the gif style stop motion food animations.
Marcus asks about working with food stylists. Denise often does the styling herself but she has worked with food stylists. Sam asks what food stylists do. The summary is that they move the peas around the plate and arrange the knife and fork tastefully and things like that. Denise also takes props with her for shoots. They also discuss planning and hot food. When hot food comes out it needs to be photographed very quickly. That means there needs to be lots of planning in place so that when the food comes out the photos are able to be done very quickly.

Denise’s influences include: Jonie – The Bite Shot

Sarah - Broma bakery

Her influences also comes from going to restaurants and looking at their photography. Her ambitions include working on a cook book and getting into a major food magazine. She has been published with other shots, but not food. Her ideal chef to make a cook book with would be Gordon Ramsey or a local chef Galston at Morston Hall.

Charlotte set up Shot by Char in 2019 and is a brand Photographer. Charlotte studied fine art photography at the University of Manchester. After university, she started working for photographic studios, selling portrait vouchers on the streets. From there, she also managed to secure work as a photographer in the studios. While working in a studio, she also started to build her own business. Eventually, she earned enough money to pay off her debt and started to travel. And while travelling she taught English and worked as a photographer. Gradually, the photography went well enough that she could drop the teaching. Eventually, she moved from shooting tourists to shooting brands. She noticed how there was a big disconnect between the photos the brands andpersonalities who are being photographed.
Marcus asks about the market in Thailand, and she says there is less money in Thailand. However, Charlotte says she is still changing her pricing and increasing her prices. Pricing is an area she is still working on. She lives in a relaxed rural area but is getting clients, both local and those passing through. But she also works in the capital, Bangkok, which is very different. She is also building customers in the UK.
Charlotte is opening a “creative space”. It has different floors, including a studio, podcasting space, headshot area and a lifestyle studio that you can also rent and stay in as an Airbnb. This is going to be available to photographers as well as businesses.

Charlotte Graham has over a decade of professional photography experience working with businesses and individuals across different backgrounds. Her end goal is to take pictures that help open up more opportunities for her clients. She works to capture beautiful photographs that showcase brands’ vision and their authentic vibe. Originally from the UK, Charlotte is currently based in Chiang Mai and covers the whole of southeast Asia.

You can find Charlotte on LinkedIn here

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This week, Sam and Marcus discussed keeping fit as a photographer. Many types of photography take a physical toll on the body, such as events where you can be moving quickly and carrying a lot of kit. The job also involves a lot of desk work, which can be bad for the body again, but in a different way.

There are three areas covered in the show

• Exercise and keeping fit
• Protecting yourself while on the job
• Best practice working at the desk
  

Marcus and Sam agree that with exercise and keeping fit, the important thing is finding something you enjoy. Sticking at it is also important. Clubs can help with this, as there is a fixed time each week, which enables you to make sure you make it. Things like the gym are harder as you need more self-discipline. It’s important to think about cardiovascular work, strength training and flexibility. Which means you might need to do different activities.
Marcus says he consistently does yoga in the morning and every night, just 10 minutes, but it has made a difference. He notices it particularly at events. Sam and Marcus discuss the idea of using a sit-stand desk. Sam also discusses that it’s good to have an activity that you always do standing up. For example, Zoom calls.

The final thing is being aware while shooting of what youare doing. Think carefully about what you are carrying with you. Do you need all of the equipment you are carrying around with you? Also be careful at the event, thinking about how you are carrying things. Look after yourself during the event. Marcus says that for larger events he employs an assistant who carries his bags.

In this show Marcus tells us about style, what it is and how it can be used in your business. Marcus says having a style means that if someone looks at your work they can tell it’s your due to the style. Marcus gives these photographers as examples of photographers with a very unique style.
Martin Schoeller
Madame Yevonde

What makes a style? It could be a technique, it could be using black and white, using flash or your viewpoint, Another example is Edward Burtynsky who is a landscape photographer and uses ariel shots.

The advantages of having a style

If you have a particular style then customers know what to expect when they book you. It can mean you can command higher fees as you can become an expert in that look. But that can mean that you need to reach a wider audience so the relevant people who like your style can find you and work with you.
Developing a style
How can you develop your own style? Marcus recommends printing out some portfolio pieces, maybe your 100 favourites. Then lay them all out on the floor and start to arrange them to find common themes. In this way you can discover your own style through exploration. Another approach is reflecting deeply on your work. Reflection is important in all areas of business, and in life. And it’s important to make time for that. Another approach to developing your style is showing your work to others and discuss it with them. There are events where you can do this, take along your portfolio and talk to someone about your work. Developing a style is not an overnight thing, thing is something you develop over time, and never stop working on.

Style versus brand
How do you get the balance between your style and the style of the brand? If your style is too fixed does it mean you cannot with some clients? There is a balance here between your style and the brands style and how much you can adapt your style and how much you are willing and able to do this. Remember you don’t have to show work that’s not in your style (apart from the client you did the work for).

Episode 15 Olga Gidane

Olga Geidane is a highly engaging and sought-after expert speaker on mindset transformation and change.

She shared her infectious energy and wisdom on self-leadership across five continents at conferences and personal development events of all kinds, both online and in-person.

She helps individuals to perform at their peak through her 5-step transformative mindset coaching as well as her courses and Olga is very passionate about helping couples to rebuild their relationships through her Stay Forever Together Relationship retreats.

A background in modelling has given Olga the confidence to really use photography to promote her personal brand and finds it easy to collaborate and communicate with photographers. And an important part of the process is having a strong two way dialogue with the photographer.

Marcus discussed Olga’s live as a model and though she remembers the time with fondness she notes that it was hard work and it really was 24/7. A great term that Olga discusses the notion of “camera ready” - to be on point.

Olga recommends seeking out a style and colour consultant before the shoot to really nail the look. A great tip for photographers if you see a client who has changed their say, hairstyle. Get  in touch with them to see if they need more photographs.

On the shoot itself Olga really suggests that the photographer visits the location to see if any extra lighting is needed. Sam discusses the importance of that pre-production form/chat to really dive deep into the details and needs. And on the shoot itself to allow time so that you are not rushed. And at the end of the shoot review what you have done - you may have missed something!

This is also a great time to go through, with the client, the story behind the shoot and make sure the images flow.

The mood board - a collection of images that can inspire the mood of the shoot.

Olga makes a great point about the best side of your face and make sure this faces the camera and is lit accordingly.

She goes on further to discuss how she has built her personal and how photography is crucial in that - choosing photographs that are authentic.

This has helped her living her dream as a digital nomad, living in lots of different locations and  having adventures with her husband.

 You can find more what she offers her clients here:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/olgageidane/

This week we are talking about Email Marketing, specifically how to grow your mailing list. Next week we will look at what to do with your mailing list. Sam thinks Email marketing is a no-brainer and explains why. There is no doubt about it you need a mailing list, it’s as simple as that!

Some of the many advantages that a mailing list will give you are numerous. It gives you direct contact with all your subscribers. Your followers want to hear from you, they already have expressed an interest as so are won't think of your emails as spam, but welcome information from a trusted source.

When setting up your Email Marketing, signing up to a reputable provider will help overcome GDPR issues, they are trusted sources and are set up to make sure your emails are being delivered. Some of the trusted providers we metioned in the show include

Mailchimp

Studio Ninja

Hubspot 

Keap

MooSend

Mailerlite

We discuss the legal basis for adding people to yuor mailing list including what “legitimate interest” really means and how you can and can't use it to add subscribers to your mailing list.

Sam guides us through the values of having something for people to download - a lead magnet. And a few trips and tricks to increase the number of subscribers, such as running companions, building communities and more.

In this episode Marcus refers to Net walking - and you can find out more about this here:

⁠https://naturalnetwalking.co.uk/⁠

Website planning
This week Sam and Marcus discuss website planning. An effective website needs planning carefully and Sam shares his knowledge and experience in this area.
Goals and Call to actions
It’s vital that a website has a goal. What is it that you want the visitors to your website to do? Do you want them to call you, buy a product or something different. Once you’ve decided this is essential to get this “Call to action” across in a tempting way. That call to action also needs to be repeated again and again across your website.
Landing pages
Sam and Marcus chat about the difference between a landing page and a website. A landing page is usually a focussing single page focussed on getting visitors to click on a focussed call to action. But both regular websites and landing page need tempting relevant call to actions.
Website structure
What is the classic way to organise a website is into service offerings. For example for a photographer a wedding page and a pet portraits page. But, Sam suggests organising the website by type of customer is also a good way to organise it. Although for photographers the service type and customer type can be the same. It’s then important to think about the customers journey through the website. It’s good to use the home page to give people little pieces of information and send them to the relevant pages for them.  Keep the menu simple. Ideally five or six items across maximum.
When you have blogs be careful about where you send visitors at the end of the blog. Some websites set up a loop where the main pages send visitors to the blog and the blog sends visitors to the main pages. This sends visitors in a loop. You need to ensure that either your main pages or your blogs have a final call to action and not direct visitors elsewhere.
Calendar booking
This can be a great place to direct people to from your website. It’s a way they can book a call easily. If your call to action says “book a call” then directing visitors to a form like this is perfect rather than a generic contact form.

 Key messages
Many people writing their own websites write way too much detail. Visitors need to know about the outcomes of your services. They don’t need endless detail about every part of your business. They need to know what it will feel like having worke3d with you and what they will have having worked with you. “You will have an amazing set of photos your business can use for social media for the next year” gives a good clear outcome. The number of images, format, image size and things like that aren’t really needed.
Images
Some websites reply just on images and nothing else. As we discussed this can work for photographers working with agents where the website is just for agents this can work. But this is very few photographers. For most the text is as vital, or more so than the photographs.

Gillian Devine is a photographer of 18 years. Gillian started with weddings and babies, but is now a brand photographer, business coach and marketing mentor to other photographers.
Gillian says she is where she is today as married the wrong man. She started in corporate marketing and then married a man called Phil Devine. His dad Vincent Devine was a professional photographer with 40 years experience. Gillian started to go to weddings with him. Vincent eventually mentored Gillian and helped her become a photographer. She then took over the family business. Sadly Vincent has passed away and Gillian is now longer married to Phil, but the photography continues.

Gillian went through a dark time during her divorce. Her business and confidence took a big knock and she was left in a lot of debt. But she then built the business and her life back up. Working hard to get where she is today. She now helps other photographers grow their business.
Sam and Gillian discuss how important being able to run a business is, and without these business and marketing skills it is hard to have a successful business. Marcus and Gillian think that back in the 90s or 2000s there were less photographers and less competition. So much less marketing was needed. A few local ads used to be enough back then. But Gillian says there is still plenty of work out there, but you need to market yourself well and get the work that is out there. Sam asks what a photographer should do who is struggling to get work. Gillian says it’s all down to your visibility, messaging and experience. Marketing is about building new connections and relationships. It’s a bit like the dating scene you have to meet a lot of people, getting visible, and then start conversations. You need to know who your ideal client is. And then you need to know where your clients hang out. As an example Gillian collaborated with a pregnancy yoga class when she was doing new born photography. Sam and Gillian discuss that first conversation and what it could be about. Gillian says advice and a free download is really great at this point. For example Gillian’s first lead magnet was a guide to what to pack into their bag for going to hospital. Nothing to do with photography. And the initial conversation is all about them. Ask lots of questions and get to know them. Gillian explains that the technical side of lead magnets does put people off. Email marketing apps are vital though, these must be used for email marketing and lead magnets.

Gillian and Marcus discuss brand photography. Gillian says that she loves it as it combines all of the elements of other areas of photography that she loves. For example the story of a wedding. Brand photography also ticks boxes to make Gillian’s life how she wants it. She has her weekends free, unlike being a wedding photographer.

Marcus asks what makes a good branding photograph. Gillian says it’s full of vibe and personality. It has to tell a story of who that person is. So the photos need to reflect the person who is being photographed. Gillian says it is also a suit of images that include storytelling elements. It isn’t just a portrait.
Gillian now lives in Spain. When she first though about moving in Spain she started marketing to people in Spain right away. And so when she arrived she already had quite a number of English speaking clients in Spain. For any photographer moving it’s important to plan ahead and start marketing into your new area.
Gillian and Marcus agree that branding photography is very new and has really only established itself in the Uk in the last couple of years. Gillian is excited about the future for brand photography with 5.5 million businesses in the UK and they all need brand photography.
You can get in touch with Gillan, she holds regular free marketing workshops and masterclasses which you can access below.

https://gilliandevine.com/masterclass

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillian-devine/

Straight talking and bags of experience makes this episode from Donna unmissable. She leaves nothing to chance with her work and marketing with detailed research, preparation and planned execution.

Donna adds pounds to the people she photographs - pounds as in money that is! Her niche is in branding photography and her practice is based in Edinburgh.

In this show we discuss the ins and outs of branding photography and in particular how she gets her clients to interact with their own customers. And no surprise this starts with research and planning. This leads to creating image that resonate with not only the end user but the people ie customers, who are viewing the product and services.

As Sam points out it is about creating an emotional connection and Donna certainly builds this into her shoots. Initially having planning meetings with the clients and filling in a workbook to identify - the ideal client, their values, USP etc.

Its all about adding value to the process. It’s not unusual for the branding photographer to turn into a business coach at this stage in the game. The end result is a library of digital assets that will be completely in line with the client’s business that are totally on-brand. Donna goes on further to offer a Pinterest board to the client to make sure they images completely meet their expectations, something that can easily be lost in translation!

The actual shoot is normally a few weeks after this process allowing time for purchase props or clothing. Donna tends to work on her own without hair and stylists - preferring a more natural look.

Marcus probes further and asks Donna where she finds her clients. And she goes on to talk about how the Covid lockdown had some positive aspects for her business. It gave her time to really nail her website’s SEO and rise up the Google rankings to get to No.1 in her area for her chosen keywords.  

A tip Donna shares is using keywords in social media posts and structuring her website to be SEO friendly.

One of Donna’s values is “Don’t be a dick!” And works with businesses that she likes and who like her. She also focuses on really spreading the word about her business, not just relying on others to do it for her. Making efforts, and going out of her comfort zone, to ensure her brand is well known. Thirdly she has a go get it attitude, instilled in her by her mother and evidenced by teenage years spent competing globally in bagpipe tournaments!

In short, decide what you want, think why you want it and never give up

We wrap up talking about following up with her clients and how a strategy call after delivery is beneficial and this is something she is working on.

This week Marcus takes us through the benefits of using flash (strobe to Americans) for your photoshoots.

Marcus is passionate about this subject and explains why it's an essential part of every photographer's toolkit. Plus we get an insight into a memorable Fosters advert from 'back in the day'.

Marcus explains how flash helps you create a visual narrative. you can get more information about that here. https://www.wearecognitive.com/blog/what-are-the-key-components-of-visual-storytelling

Marcus also explains that clients' availability can be limited so sometimes you need to turn day into night, or night into day using flash. There is some more information on this here. https://fstoppers.com/lighting/using-flash-change-your-photo-day-night-598896

We also discuss manufacturers, which to use and why it's best to choose wisely. When natural light is good it’s good use it, but, remember if you are in the UK, don't rely on it. Modifiers, speed lights, umbrellas and stands all come into the chat. And finally, how to find a good teacher and the workshops that are best avoided.  

Marcus referred to these photographers in the podcast.

Martin Parr - https://www.martinparr.com/

Gregory Crewdson - https://gagosian.com/artists/gregory-crewdson/

Elaine Constantine -https://elaineconstantine.com/

Zoe runs Ask Zoe and calls herself a consultant with a difference. She focusses not just on your business, but also on marketing. So she educates customers on what to do, when and how to help you grow. Sam and Zoe met four or five years ago pre-Covid when Zoe ran Fab Events. This business was setup in 2016. Zoe grew the business with 4N, the networking group Sam and Zoe were involved with at the time. The name Fab came because people kept saying “Zoe you are Fab”. Even in this business she was doing marketing as well as events.

When Zoe started Fab events, she said she could do all events, which she realises now probably wasn’t the best idea. While Zoe was running lots of events she spent a lot of time working with event photographers. She says if you are at an event you will usually need more than one photographer. There is usually too much going on for one person to capture. You can be the main photographer in the room, but you will need other photographers at other places, such as arrivals. That doesn’t mean as a single photographer you can’t do events like these. It means you just will need to collaborate with other photographers.

The reason Zoe called the business Ask Zoe is that she has built and kept relationships over a long time and those people who she is connected to will always Ask Zoe. Covid brought big changes to Zoe’s business and from a business point of view she sees it as a blessing. It gave her a chance to stop and reflect on what she had been doing and what she wanted to do going forwards. During Covid, Zoe was busy analysing the news and working out what would happen next and what she needed to do. As Covid was building in early 2020 events were already being effected before the UK population. This was due to early restrictions on imports. At this stage Zoe decided the best thing for her to do was focus on online events management.

What happened during this time Zoe’s business was doing well while many in the industry were fading. And so Zoe’s connections were asking what she was doing. She had been using a 7 step consultancy strategy that she had been trained in at Hilton and at University, and was using this in her business. But many people were feeling overwhelmed during Covid, so she stripped it down to a 4 step process.

Zoe then found that her business was only 5% events and 95% marketing and consultancy. She then talked to a lot of people including Collette Evans who does her branding photography to Clare Froggett who does Zoe’s branding and she developed Ask Zoe. So most of what she does is marketing and brand consultancy.

Sam asks if there is some common things that photographers could do to improve their business. Zoe says it really depends on the business and Zoe always starts with a call to see what help people need. But business owners tend to feel overwhelmed in terms of what they need to do to get to the next level they want to reach.

Zoe has worked with a few photographers and tends to find that they are very creative and tend to focus on this creativity, rather than what they need to grow their business. Creative people tend to be a little introverted and their creativity is their output. Zoe talks about getting KPIs (key performance indicators) in place in your business. These are just goals, nothing complicated. But things you need to focus on to get the end result. This is related to the show on business planning. Sam and Zoe discuss the types of KPIs photographers may have. For example it might be to do three weddings a week in the peak season, but have a month off in winter. But other photographers may simply to just do one wedding a weekend. The key is it’s relevant for you and your business. Zoe says a business a plan should be like a story, have a beginning a middle and an end. The middle is how you make it happen and how you join the dots.

Joe Giacomet mostly works in advertising. It’s an area that has allowed him to do what he wants. And has given the spare cash to be able to focus on personal projects from time to time. Marcus describes Joe’s style as photography on steroids. He says Joe is known for vibrant, quirky, comedic ideas. Joe has studies graphic design and worked with a lot of influential people and those have come together to get him where he is. His shots have a lot of humour in, but he says clients can sometimes reign this in.  Joe says when he goes into a shoot he likes to remind himself that he is there to have fun.

Joe studied graphic design initially and photography was a hobby. He then found he was enjoying the photography more than the graphic design. At university he studied photography, but also worked as a freelance graphic designer. He then moved to London, started assisting as a photographer and the graphic design work drifted away.
Joe worked as an assistant for Mark Denton and he has been very influential in Joe’s work. He assisted for Julia Fullerton-Batten  and she really pushed him develop, especially around lighting. Joe says it was fascinating assisting as he learnt so much from seeing how other people work.

Joe says what a lot of people don’t realise is how planned everything is for a shoot. Every detail is planned out in advance. He tries to leave space for creativity, but the planning needs to be in place. Working in advertising can be very prescriptive.
Joe did a personal project based on football cards with Mark Denton. This was a long running personal project making comedy football cards. This project brought Joe’s work to Marcus’s attention. They did the shoots for 6 days over a couple of years. The cards started as thirty portraits. They then invented the teams, got woven badges made, printed huge backdrops, and spent a long time on casting. They looked at over 5000 people to find the right people for the cards. Then post production was done over Covid. This was a huge amount of work that probably wouldn’t have got done without Covid. All of this was simply for a personal project. The time spent on it was certainly not commercially viable. Joe thinks he landed work at the Qatar world cup due to this project. But he says don’t always believe that personal projects will always turn into work.
Before the football cards Joe did a parody of a Tretchikoff painting, Chinese girl . A friend of Joe’s, Kate is Chinese and she needed a business card, so they decided to make a parody of this painting. This was just for fun, but ended up in the Royal academy, was on TV and Paloma Faith has a copy on her wall.

What comes across from these projects is Joe’s intense attention to detail. He says this is a great quality, but sometimes needs reigning in. If he does a job he always gives 110% he never gives half effort.
Joe’s style has allowed him to move into other genres, so his style comes across in whatever he does. Joe has a process for whatever he does and thinks he could apply this to projects outside photography.
Joe says he came to London in his twenty knowing no one. So all his contacts he now has in the advertising business have come through building a network over time. He has also found that as he has been in the industry for a good number of years now, his contacts have been moving up the corporate ladder. So, the people who were very junior when he first met them have started to become much higher up in the business. That means now he is able to get higher level work with the contacts he has. He has been nurturing these contacts over time and without this nurturing over time he would not have these contacts.

He did have a time a few years ago where he gave up photography for a month or so as he was making almost no money. He felt sometimes like he was banging his head against a wall trying to get work. But he then got a commission for 3M which took him forwards.

This week Sam and Marcus discuss the hotly debated topic of “Do you need a photography degree/qualification to be a commercial photographer” And what’s the alternative?

Marcus, no surprise, being an ex Senior Lecturer in photography comes down in favour! But for reasons that may not be obvious. Sam asks probing questions and has an alarming Stat of the Day.

This show is just perfect if you are trying to decide whether to spend your hard earned cash on going to university.

You can find more out about the show at

https://website4photographers.co.uk/podcast/

This show is about working with models but is also working with all sorts of different people on a shoot.
How do you find a fashion model for a test?

A test is a situation where everyone is working together for free to build images for their portfolio. It is a very typical way of starting the fashion world. Marcus says the first thing is what a fashion model looks like. Look at fashion magazines to get an idea for this. Marcus says that fashion models should look striking / unusual. Marcus says now there is a very positive change from everyone being very skinny to there being more body shapes seen in fashion. Although he says there is still a long way to go here.
A good place to go to find a model to do a test with is a local model agency and then you need to find the newest models on their books. The newer models will be the ones who also want images for their portfolio. Agencies may ask to see your portfolio before letting you shoot one of their models. This can be an issue if this is also your first step into the world of fashion photography. But don’t let this be a barrier to you, give it a try.
Street casting is another way to find a model. So approach people on the street who you think would be a great model. Having a portfolio to show as part of this is helpful.

There also online model agencies. Marcus thinks are not necessarily the best models for fashion shoots. But you can still approach them.
Sam says setting up this test means you have a group of people all starting out in fashion who can all help each other as a network.
Marcus now moves on to posing a model and this part of the podcast is also relevant to other areas of photography. Although he doesn’t like the word posing.
He has three ways to help get a model / subject to pose in a certain way. They are Mirroring, Role play, Observation
Mirroring

He got this idea from the photographer Richard Avedon. Basically you have to get “in tune” with the model and they will naturally mirror what you do without thinking about it. So if you cross your arms they do to.
Role Play
Marcus says he does this a lot in brand photography. Marcus suggests scenarios and then the subject acts them out
Observation

This is about looking deeply at the subject, spotting what they do naturally, remembering it and asking them to do it again.
He says there are many other ways but Marcus thinks these are the most effective. Marcus says one of the most important things on a shoot with a model, or anyone, is the “vibe” in the studio. Music is a good way to create a vibe, both using music the model like, but also the music can be used to effect the mood on the shoot.

Marcus’s final hint is that if you are going to put together fashion shoot make sure you know who it is going to be for as different magazines have different styles.

Lauren McWilliams is a Brand photographer and Strategist. Lauren works with ambitious service based entrepreneurs across the UK through photography and programmes.

With a keen eye for capturing the essence of brands through photography and a knack for strategic thinking, she’s the go-to for those looking to make a lasting impact in their market.

 Her passion for helping others can be seen and was recently recognised in the Great British Entrepreneur Awards 2022 as a finalist for Young Entrepreneur of the year. 

Lauren's business story

Lauren started her business in 2019 not long before the pandemic began. When she started she had no idea how to run a business. Photography had always been a passion, so when she burnt out from her 9 to 5 job, she setup a photography business. Lauren got lots of support from the local authority for her business.

Lauren started saying yes to any work that came along, like almost all of us do when we start a business. She quickly realised that what she enjoyed most was working with businesses. When the pandemic hit she had no work, as with most photographers. So, she decided to launch a challenge to help keep businesses telling their story.

After lockdown she was suddenly fully booked having run the challenge. As she worked more Lauren realised that customers didn’t know what to do with their photographs. Most of the photographs she gave to customers stayed hidden. So she started to learn more about marketing and then started to help her customers with this.

Lauren ended up with a contract as a consultant to support businesses in the same way as she had received support at the beginning of her business journey.

Where do Lauren's customers begin as photography or branding clients?

Lauren is known mainly as a photographer and so her clients tend to come in for photography, but then they move on to also become brand strategy clients once they have their photographs. Lauren works with businesses over a long period of time and builds up a long term relationship with them, which she really values. She tells us the story of a recruitment business that she has documented over time. Initially it was just the CEO of the business on her own. Now she has a team of 20 or 30 with a new office. Lauren has documented those changes.

What could photographers could do to add more value to clients.

Lauren suggests building more of a relationship with the client. Ensuring realty careful panning happens before the photo shoot. As an example for a corporate photo shoot you could involve the people having their photo taken from the planning stage. Ask them for ideas so that they can become involved in the process and start to own it and enjoy it.

Collaboration

Lauren thinks it is really important as photographers to collaborate and learn from each other. When she started off she found some local photographers saw her as a threat and wouldn’t answer her questions. Later she found more supportive photographers. She is now using her skills and knowledge to help other photographers. 

Shoot to the top Facebook Group

We have launched a Facebook group for the podcast. You can find it here. Lauren, Sam and Marcus are there and you can ask them questions. 

Sam asked Lauren how we can make content to show the person we are without making it to much “me,me,me”. She says the balance is that we show who we are but we balance that with sharing out networks and our clients success. Lauren suggests the simple things that photographers could do to improve their marketing is to practice what they preach. Photographers are usually telling clients to get out and be visible. But then many photographers then hide behind the camera and aren’t seen. You can contact Lauren here.

lauren@foryouphotographer.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-mcwilliams-brand-photographer/

https://laurenmcwilliams.co.uk/

Christian does many things. He runs a performance coaching program, does digital media and has a program in Mozambique. Christian was a refugee at the age of 4 and moved from Chile to Germany to Russia to Africa and back to Russia. He has seen a lot of civil unrest on the way including a military coup in Chile, a civil war in Mozambique the collapse of the Soviet Union. In 1993 he started a music career in Russia and he became a pop star in Russia for about ten years.
Christian says he moved from a communist household to being very anti-communist and having one of his hits Our generationbeing used as the anthem for Boris Yeltsin’s campaign as he came to power.

Sam asks Christian’s approach to balancing creativity and business. Christian says everyone is creativity which he says is the ability tovcreate something out of nothing. And he thinks this is important for everyone whether in a create industry or not. He thinks tapping into your deepest creative self is what leads to commercial success.
Marcus mentions we do have a show on creativity that you can listen to here.
Christian says he has developed a morning routine that really helps developbcreativity. He says it’s easy to get distracted by emails and to do lists and then you are in reactive not creative mode. He says you can delay those tasks and create a pattern in your day so you get the creative work done first. Christian uses the first half of the day to create and the second half to communicate. First thing in the morning he contemplates, journals and gets himself into a state of creativity through design of his day. This time is then a good time to do the photo editing and other creative tasks. He says everyone can manage about 3 hours of creative work a day. So if we setup our days and for three days set aside time for this focused creative work, it will change your life.
Marcus says this goes against the swallow the frog school of doing things where you should do the tasks you don’t want to in the morning. Christian says you are rested in the morning (as long as you went to bed at a sensible time) then that morning time is the best time for this creativity. And during this time you should not have distractions like emails. Christian says this creative time should be an empty space as in that empty space ideas arrive.

Sam then  asks Christian about Mozambique as it is where Sam lives and where Christian used to live. Christian moved to Mozambique aged 7 just a year after independence. It is a new culture and language for Christian. He went to a local school in Portuguese for the first year, before going to an English language international school. The civil war started not long after he had been there. But he said as a kid most of that went over his head. He would just roam the city unsupervised. He also got to travel all over Mozambique. He also picked up the rhythms and music of Mozambique and that influenced his later music. He also has an after school club that he runs in Maputo that supports children in Maputo.
Marcus asks what he is doing now. He is a motivational speaker and has a digital media company. So be spends most of his time doing creative work and content. He hasn’t done music for about 4 years. He would like to re-introduce it in the future.
Christian’s parting advice is aim high in whatever you do. It will be very hard to get there and will take time. But so many people are in the middle it’s crowded. It pays off to aim high.
You can get Christian’s contact details and newsletters here.
He says the other thing you can do is work out your starting point. You can use Christian’s quiz to do this. He says it’s a great tool to self assess where are you now and where do you want to go.

Sarah J Naylor is a lifestyle success coach and mentor. She helps people at crossroads in their life. Often a midlife point where you suddenly start asking questions about where you are and what you are doing. She works to help people understand what fires them up, how they want their life to looks and helps them work towards that. It is also about how you see your life and having the gratitude for what you have already.

Marcus asks Sarah to define mid-life. Sarah says it’s around 40 to 60, but age is just a number.  Sam says that kids leaving home could prompt that mid life re-assessment of who you are and what you do. Sam refers back to a recent podcast with Allie Crewe and she at that mid life, stopped teaching and became a photographer.

Sarah has had quite a journey coming through a divorce and becoming a single parent to setting up her own business during a recession. Sarah says when she was married she now feels her life was on hold.

Sam says there are people that are amateur photographers who would like to go pro, but aren’t sure about it and are worried about it. He asks what Sarah would say to people like that. Sarah has a client in a similar situation with a photography degree, but has lost her confidence in taking photographs. Sarah says the key is just do it. Do what you enjoy. Find the thing that fires you up and do it. Don’t worry about trying to get business from it, just do the type of photography you enjoy ad it fires you up. Sarah says you will then start to get work based on that work. Marcus totally agrees with this approach.

Sarah then talks about lifestyle, income and what you want. The key is work out what you want and aim towards that. It might be you want to travel the world, so in that case you could work on how can earn money while travelling, rather than working hard to be able to afford it. Don’t focus on the money, but equally do value yourself.

Sam points out that this is linked to business planning, working out where you want to be and getting there. You can listen to this show here. Sarah says also that small shifts in your life can make the biggest differences in your life. Leading on from this Marcus asks how you get from A to B. Sarah says the first thing is working out in detail what B looks like. Until you have this in place you can’t go anywhere. You then need to be mindful of your words, thoughts and actions. Step into the shoes of the person you want to be. Be positive. Be aware of the opportunities coming your way and take the ones that help you get to B. She says there is a balance here. Don’t fake it until you make it, but you do have to step into the shoes of the person you want to be. So say “I am a photographer” make it positive.

Marcus summarises Sarah’s approach into three steps

1.Be clear where you want to go

2. Step into those shoes and own it

3. Be the best version of yourself
Sarah loves this summary and says that covers it well. Be yourself and step into your own future. Don’t let others pull you down. Surround yourself with great people who support you.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠

⁠01482 765871⁠

In this episode Marcus and Sam discuss the different platforms available for building a website. Sam grouped into three different broad groups.
1. The self build platforms – Wix, SquareSpace, Shopify and others
2. Content management system platforms. This is dominated by WordPress, but there are other platforms here like Joomla

3. Custom coding. This means someone builds a site for you using code.
Self Build websites
These are easy to use drag and drop website platforms. These make it very easy to get a website online. With some use of templates, dragging and dropping you can make something that looks quite good, quite quickly. They are easy to use  and deal with maintenance, security and hosting for you. This means it’s one simple monthly or annual payment and it covers everything. Once you chose one of these platforms you are locked into it. So if they dramatically increase your prices your only choice is to give up on that website, or pay the higher price. The speed and SEO for these platforms has improved dramatically in the last ten years, however they are behind the other types of website in these areas. Speed effects visitors experience and can also push you down the Google rankings. These platforms also have limits as to what they can do. They have quite a good range of functionality.  But if you want to go beyond the functionality they provide, you have to start again with a different platform.
Sam explains there is a lot more to building a website than adding some text and images and making it look pretty. Take a listen to our back catalogue to get some ideas about this.
WordPress and other CMS platforms
They talk about Wordpress here as it’s the dominant force. Sam explains that Wordpress is quite a basic platform (a bit like a new phone) but you can then add plugins (like apps on your phone) that can do all sorts of things. Some are free, some premium, some freemium. There are different ways to build a WordPress website, but many now use a visual editor so you can see what you are doing. But they are not drag and drop builders like Wix.
When using WordPress you do need to think about your own security and updates. This isn’t that complicated, but does need thinking about. The most important thing is to keep all the software up to date.  Wordpress websites can move between website hosting. So if you have a problem with one web hosting service, you can move it to a different one.
The number of plugins for websites is huge so there is a wide range of flexibility in what WordPress can do. Because these plugins are used by a wide range of users the cost of writing them is shared across hundreds or thousands of users, which keeps the cost down.
Custom coded website
This means that a site is built just for you. There is no excess code here. It is a way to get a very fast efficient website. It can do a huge range of things. But it is very expensive as a coder writes it just for you. For a simple five page photography website, this would be very over the top. But if you want to do something more complex and you have the budget, it’s a great way to go.

Moving between platforms
Think carefully before committing to a website platform as to leave you have to abandon the website and start again. But also don’t be afraid to let an old website go. For example maybe you built a Website on SquareSpace two years ago and you want to greatly improve it. Think carefully about whether you would be better to over onto another platform and start again, rather than stick to what you have.

 
Image sizes
As a sideline Sam and Marcus started chatting about photographers getting images onto their websites. Sam explained it’s important that photographers don’t add huge images to their websites.

 Emma runs Natural Aspect. She creates images for her clients so they can market their brand with ease and confidence. And Sam said that is reflected in her social media where she is promoting herself with confidence. The name of the business has changed many times over the years. During her last rebrand she was in the mountains in Wales. She as looking for a name that reflected her style, capturing the natural look and the logo reflected the mountains.
Sam asked about TikTok and Emma said she was dragged onto it by a marketing coach. Emma says her ideal clients re not really there, but their kids might be. So TikTok is not a strong focus, but something she uses. LinkedIn is her main social media. Emma has been a photographer for seventeen or eighteen years. She has changed the focus of her business many times during this period. This is partly because she is a military family so has to move around a lot. Currently Emma works with businesses as this works with her and her family life.
Sam and Emma discussed the point that moving a photography business is hard. For Emma she was in Lincolnshire before the pandemic and is back now, so that has helped. Emma says niching has really worked for her and helped her with her marketing and messaging. She doesn’t work with any particular businesses.
Marcus asks what differentiates a brand photographer from any other sort of photographer. Emma says branding photography brings together skills from a wide range of photography genres. She spends a lot of time researching her clients, getting to know them. This way by the time it gets to the day of the shoot it’s all carefully planned. The customer knows what they need to do on the day, as does Emma. Emma really enjoys this side of her business. For example she worked with an accountant taking pictures of them tap dancing, which was their hobby.
Emma also does charity work with Remember My baby. They offer free remembrance photography for families that have had a loss before, during or after birth. It’s a tough subject and one that not many people talk about. She currently supports Lincolnshire hospitals with that. She goes into hospitals and take pictures of families. Every shoot is different, the mood, how much they want to talk, what they want and more.

Marcus asks about other charities and Emma in that case worked with families with children with life limiting conditions. That the Butterfly Wishes Network. Again Emma gave her time freely here and found the work very rewarding.
Marcus like to play devils advocate and asks what Emma thinks about working for charities for free. Emma says if she was going to provide marketing material for a charity she would charge. She sees that as different from being part of a charity which you are helping and feel emotionally attached to. This becomes a wider discussion between Sam and Marcus about getting paid for charity work.

Sam asks Emma what she would say to explain the cost of services. She said this could include added value to the package, it’s about promoting yourself and so having the reputation. It’s about being able to listen and also having the right kit for the job.

The discussion went onto the area of balancing listening and directing on a shoot. There is a podcast about listening, that is relevant here. Having a level of confidence is important here, to be able to do the direction well.
Emma has just returned from a family trip to China where her brother and family live. She had an amazing trip and recommends visiting.

Every episode has an extra bonus tip that we give only to newsletter subscribers. For the show about fashion Marcus’s tip as if you want to shoot fashion, don’t shoot fashion. And now Marcus has a whole show on this principal.

When Marcus was working in fashion lecturing, students would come up with great fashion work. But he would say remember editors commissioning this work see pictures all the time. So if you want to get noticed, do something different. Sam says this reminds him of the interview with Joe Giacomet. He spent ages making football cards as a personal project and it was almost these that made his name.
Marcus thinks that if you shoot fashion then getting out and doing street photography. This is so different to fashion. You have to be much quicker and be in a much less controlled environment. It will really improve your craft. It then means you have some photos to show to the fashion editors as well as your fashion work. This can help to get you noticed. Marcus spent a lot of time taking street photography which he really loved.

Richard Avedon was one of the first photographers to get the models out of thestudio and out into the streets of New York, which at the time was quite radical.
Marcus suggests that portrait photographers should think of trying still life as an alternative genre. Still life photography is all about the lighting, composition and attention to detail. The skills learnt here can then be applied to your portrait photography.
If you are product photographer perhaps try landscape photography. When you are in the studio with a product you can control everything, while you have no control over the environment, which makes it very different.
Marcus and Sam discuss that wedding photography has changed greatly over the last ten years with it becoming much more documentary style. Marcus suggests that wedding photographers should go and try fashion photography. Fashion photography is all about style and making the models looking great, which are perfect skills for wedding photographers.

Marcus’s other suggestions are:
Street photographers try portrait photography.

Landscape photographers could try art photography, the sort of thing in galleries and museums. Marcus suggests looking at Jem Southern, Beckers (Bernd and Hilda) John Davies, Edward Patinksky. These are people taking images with a political message.

Family photographers could try painting. Looking at them for ideas, styles and light.

Bel is part of Turpin Accounting Services a business setup by her Mum.
Bel she she fell into accounting. She started in retail management, but when her Mum’s business expanded she needed help. Bel started doing data entry on her days off, and then applied for a role when it became available. So she started on admin, then moved onto bookkeeping, then accounting and did all the training in those areas on the way. Now she works with clients on business development.

Marcus says he doesn’t have an accountant and asks why he should use one as a sole trader. Bel says it’s a lot about having someone to be able to ask the right questions. It’s not that the accounts are often wrong it’s just that as a business owner it’s hard to see the bigger picture from your numbers. So she could help Marcus make more money, make him more tax efficient and things like that.

What is the difference between bookkeeping and accountancy? Bookkeeping is the day to day data entry and organisation. An accountant does more advanced work such as end of year accounts or giving you advice. Sam asks as a photographer is it best to have an accountant or a bookkeeper. Bel says it depends what you want to get out of the business at the end of the day. Look at the time you are spending on accounts, is it worth handing that over to someone else? In terms of accounting it’s a question of whether you want to move the business forward.

Bel thinks there is education needed in terms of what things can be put through business expenses. Things like a home office, internet bills, gas, electricity and a percentage of the mortgage. Equipment can all go through as well as subscriptions like Adobe and CRM packages.
Bel highly recommends using accounting software as it makes life easier. As the government is moving to making tax digital it means that almost all businesses will need to be using the software before too long. It’s likely that will be for all businesses turning over more that £12k a year.

Sam asks if Bel has any thoughts on which accounting software is better for as small business. She thinks Xero gives a bit more analysis than Quick Books. But overall they are all very similar.
Marcus asks the advantages and advantages of being a limited company and being VAT registered. Bel says it’s about what your business wants to achieve. Some large clients will only work limited businesses. As a Limited company you have different ways to get money out of the business which aren’t available as a sole trader.
Being VAT registered is again linked to bigger clients and some may expect you to be VAT registered. It has big effects on buying equipment and claiming VAT back. Sam wonders why more photographers don’t become a limited company. Bel does warn that such a change tends to double your accountants costs.

Bel does free accounting clinics once a month which can be found on Eventbrite
Sam asks what a photographer does if he owns equipment and then starts a business. How you can account for this. Bel says you can, if you are a limited company you can sell the equipment to the business. So the business then owes you that money. Sam talks about equipment depreciating and accounting for that, but Bel says you will probably need an accountant to deal with this.
The discussion also goes onto the fact that accountants need brand photographers and videographers. So make sure you talk to your accountant to see if you can help them with their photography.

You can get in touch with Bel here
https://www.turpinaccounting.co.uk

bel@turpinaccounting.co.uk

Abi and Giles have a background in film and TV. Abi as a producer. They met while working on Jonathan Creek.  Abi says she does the organising side doing the paperwork, keeping the clients happy and getting the next client while Giles does the creative stuff.

Giles started doing stills photography as an assistant in the movie industry. He then moved into being a movie cameraman. Eventually, they both got tired of the long hours in the movie industry and set up their own business. They ran the company alongside their film careers for about five years.

They now do video. Having done just stills for a long time they are now doing some video. However, they are sticking to short videos and outsourcing to filmmakers for longer work.

Marcus and Giles talk a little about equipment. Marcus says he is quite a technical geek and loves focus-stacking. This also allows him to change the look of an image later on if the client wants it. He uses a Sony mirrorless camera now and thinks they are now good. He has moved from Canon to Nikon to Sony over the years.

Sam’s asks how they get clients. Abi says word of mouth has been key for a long time. There are a lot of connections and conversations with people. Their clients tend to stay with them for a long time. Their oldest clients have been with them for over fifteen years. Once they get new clients in the studio or on location they tend to keep them. Also, they work a lot with marketing agencies and they have a high staff turnover. This works well with them as staff they have built a relationship with in one agency move to another and then they get introduced as great photographers to the new agency.

Abi spent lots of time chatting to clients over lockdown as the clients were feeling low. Her day-to-day job is keeping those connections alive. They are also always suggesting new ideas to current clients. Giles likes to run new ideas with old clients and they really like that and like trying them.

Sam asks about their approach to AI. He says it’s here and they love it and want to embrace it, but also he is keeping the enemy close. Giles did do some talks on it but stopped due to the hate mail he was getting. Giles says the generative AI is so much better if you give long prompts giving lots of technical terms to do with the lighting and style of shoot. Giles says it’s great for generating ideas so you are not staring at a blank page. It helps spark ideas.

Marcus mentions Scott Choucino of Tin House Studio who does food photography. Marcus says due to AI he is going to make his photography more organic and doing things like shooting on film. Giles thinks it’s great to go back to film. You can listen to our show on film here. But Giles thinks commercially it’s essential to stick to digital.

As final advice, Giles says to stick to your rates and value your experience. He also recommends working out how much you need to charge hourly as a minimum to survive with the lifestyle you have.

Sam is running a “Capture Clients Workshop” with Gillian Devine. Gillian and Sam will be focussing on email marketing and website design and how you can use these to get more clients and grow your business. There will be lots of practical advice that you will be able to take away at the end of the day. To book on click here.

David Harrison was a Commercial Photographer and is now moving towards making his passion, wildlife photography, part of his business.  David had an Uncle in South Africa when he was young. When he was 21 he got to visit South Africa and go to the Kruger park. On his first day he saw a lion by the side of the road. David has been back to Africa many times since then.
David commercially has been working with a range of businesses doing all sorts of different work. But he now wants a change and he is still working out exactly how the wildlife photography will become part of his business. He is thinking about setting up retreats on safari in Africa.
David says on safari you are always living in the moment, even if you can’t see any animals at that time. He says it is very relaxing and helps people live in the moment. Marcus says that you can capture wildlife photography here in the UK. David agrees and says that you can create a wildlife haven in your garden by simply setting up a bird feeder. You can extend that more by having a log nearby so the birds use the log as a perch near the feeders, which can make for great shots. It is also easy just to get out on any day and see what wildlife you found. It could simply be some trees and other plants.

Sam suggests spending time photographing birds on the feeder will help photographers develop their skills at photographing animals. David fully agrees with this and says we should fully practice all the photography we do. He says he isn’t surprised that those that win Wildlife photographer of the year spend a very long time with the wildlife. Marcus points out that one winner of this was an image of a fox taken in the UK.
David explains that also with wildlife you need to work with what turns up, rather than what you planned. Wildlife doesn’t always do as you planned. Standing still and waiting is also good. Waiting and observing and then the great shots will often appear.

Marcus asks what it’s like to be on safari with David. He says it’s almost impossible to explain what it’s like to be on a safari vehicle in Africa first thing in the morning. The sunsets and sunrises are always amazing. There is then the experience of being out in the middle of no-where. There is also the not knowing what could be around the next corner. Then suddenly you see your first animal. Seeing the big cats it is so exciting in the wild. Sam says it’s also about the animals being so big and potentially so dangerous to you.
Sam points out that there are many budgets for safari and it doesn’t have to be really expensive. David says that’s true and the price often adds extra “bells and whistles”. He says the wildlife doesn’t go to the luxury lodge’s vehicle first!
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Pete is a New York headshot and portrait Photographer and musician.

Peter started photography and music at the same time as a teenager. As a musician Pete is a Jazz musician. And he spent lots of time learning the music of the Jazz masters. He spent time working out bass lines of great jazz music. As you do this over time you start to absorb their work into your style and then develop your own style. And Pete then took this approach to photography. First he started working with New York headshot and portrait Photographer and musicians

Peter started photography and music at the same time as a teenager. As a musician Pete is a Jazz musician. And he spent lots of time learning the music of the Jazz masters. He spent time working out bass lines of great jazz music. As you do this over time you start to absorb their work into your style and then develop your own style. And Pete then took this approach to photography. First he started working with Peter Hurley doing what Peter told him and absorbing his style. He then moved on to working with Ivan Weiss. Over time he has worked with others and used these to develop his own style.
Sam asks how you can learn from a photographer at a distance if you can’t speak to them. Pete says he did this with Dan Winters and he did work on replicating one of his photographs, from the composition to the lighting to every other element. He says you will learn so much more from this than looking at it in a book.

Marcus thinks that photographers don’t look at their history in the same way that musicians do. Pete says to be really good you need to go back and study the past masters before you can move forward with new style. He also says you can’t bypass this process. You can go back before photography and study art as well.

Pete says he came into photography through mentorship, no training. This has become easier with digital technology so you can work with photographers in different parts of the world. Pete now coaches photographers himself and he has a Facebook group associated with this.
They discuss the similarities between Spotify in music and stock libraries in photography. Pete thinks it’s best to avoid both as they are a very hard way to make money. Pete says professionalism is important both in music and photography. He has been at gigs where people turn up late, don’t dress appropriately and more. It’s important that you realise in both cases this is a business and you need to carefully think about that. He says some photographers don’t return peoples phone calls. That is bad practice, gives a bad impression and loses you work.
Marcus suggests that like musicians concerts are an experience, a photoshoot should be an experience. Sam takes us back to the discussion about Spotify and Shutter Stock and says whenever you use a platform go in with your eyes wide open as that will always be making money for the platform rather than you. Sometimes the platform is useful enough to make it worthwhile but be aware of that the platform are getting from that.
Marcus has a selection of Photographers who are musicians
Milt Hinton is one that Pete comes up with. He documented his life in images.

Marcus's are: Ansel Adams was a concert pianist as well as a photographer

Graham Nash from Crosby Stills and Nash is a photographer
Brian Adams also became a photographer.doing what Peter told him and absorbing his style. He then moved on to working with

This is Gillian’s second show with us. Gillian uses social media a lot as one of her marketing pillars. Today's show is about the extra ways we can make money, the extra money we are leaving on the table while working with our clients.

Sam and Gillian discuss the fact that in many cases our clients want the extra services we offer, but simply don’t know we offer them. Offering these does not need to be salesy or pushy. It can just be letting our clients know these extra services exist.

Gillian shares some real examples with us.

1.     Having a lower ticket offering

Gillian says we all should be offering premium luxury services. But there is always a space for a lower ticket offering. These will often be short photo shoots. Gillian says these are great for those who can’t afford your core offering. You don’t need to advertise this lower ticket offering. But you can personally offer it to some leads who clearly cannot afford or are not ready to go for your core offering. She says that nine times out of ten someone who turned down the higher ticket option goes for the lower ticket option. And in most cases, they also go on to become a customer of her other services. Gillian says she always makes it feel exclusive getting access to this lower ticket offering.

It's important to ensure that you make it very clear what the lower ticket offer includes. And only provide that.

2.     Add-ons and upgrades.
When someone has purchased a package with you is there anything else you can add on? Gillian says that when she was a newborn photographer she had a one-year photo shoot as an add-on for a newborn shoot. Wall art, books etc make great add-ons for a range of types of photography. You can ask about add-ons at the moment your new client comes on board or later on after the shoot. Explaining that “most other clients” go for an odd on makes clients much more interested in it. Never be afraid to ask if can I offer anything else.
Marcus asks about add-ons for branding. Gillian says she has sold wall art for an office, she has sold a branding book as an upgrade to branding clients. It could also be social media help or something a little different like this. Sam mentions that subscriptions leading to regular brand shoots are another way to upsell. Gillian says most of her subscription clients start on a standard brand shoot and then upgrade to regular brand shoots.

3.     Expansion – Where can you expand your service offering

What services can you expand into as well as photography? This could be video clips, audio, gifs made from images, accountability services, or social media marketing. There are all sorts of areas that you could expand into. A lot of these expansion services often provide extra recurring income.

Having aspirational packages is also a good idea. 10% of customers will want to go for the top package you offer, so having a high-value aspirational package is a great idea and a small percentage of clients will go for it.
Sam says it’s important to be quiet once you have made an offer. It’s very easy to just talk, but once you have made an offer be quiet and wait for the client to speak. Along these lines, Gillian said it’s also important to be super aware of what you are saying to clients. We often say things like “this is too expensive” about one of your services.
Gillian is going to the Societies Convention that is on as this show goes live. Gillian is hosting the business school at this event and a talk on brand photography.
Gillian has a five-day free mini-course coming up, which you can join. You can get hold of Gillian here.

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Join the ⁠Shoot to the Top Facebook⁠ group to meet fellow photographers, guests and Sam and Marcus

This week Marcus talks about building a portfolio as a photographer. He breaks this down into three areas, photographs, pace and presentation.

Marcus starts by taking about Robert Frank and his book 'The Americans', that was published in 1960. He took photos and made what he called about a visual poem out of them. Marcus encourages you to look at the book and focus on the fact that it is a series of images.
Sam asks why a photographer wants a portfolio. Marcus says there are two reasons. One is to get more work. The other is to present a body of work. Years ago a portfolio was leather bound and shown to people to show your work. Marcus still has some of these. Clearly now there are many more options. You could have pdfs, movies and more, but printed material still has it’s value. And printing out work and showing it to clients will make you stand out from the crowd. You can also make a slide show to go at the back of Zoom calls during networking meetings.  Marcus thinks 20 to 30 images in a portfolio is about right. Less is more. Sam says that on websites photographers usually add far too many images.

When you are putting together a portfolio the beginning and the end are really key. They are the parts people remember. The middle is almost a filler. The beginning and end does not need to be your best shot. It may be more your most impactful or alternative to get attention. Tweaking portfolios for the viewer is also really important.  Marcus says to look at your portfolio from the back forwards, remember some people flick through books this way (if it is physical).

Think about how the photographs are arranged. So colours for example, or work on themes. Working through a time frame can also work. The key is do not put them together randomly. Sam introduces the ides of adding humour in there and Marcus agrees this is a great idea.

Finally Marcus talks about pace. Allowing space and allowing your portfolio to breathe. Marcus gives examples of leaving blank pages or part pages.

Marcus explains that he offers online portfolio reviews that can be booked in via his website.

This week we talk to Christine about what it's like being in front of the lens and how she uses her photographs.

Christine, Marketing and Creative Start-Up Coach, founder of the Creative Start-Up Academy, author of multiple books, public speaker, podcaster and workshop facilitator. She has worked in marketing and advertising for more than 12 years before she decided to start her own business supporting start-ups. With her hands-on approach, she has helped hundreds of individuals validate their business idea and create a successful start-up as well as working with small businesses supporting them getting clarity and marketing their business. She sees entrepreneurship as a way of life and loves the passion that comes from working in that industry.

Christine regularly has photo shoots to get more images and is always using photographs on her website, in her marketing and on social media. For Christine, what separates different photographers is their attention to detail and the way they react and talk to the sitters. Preferring a natural look Michelle and Marcus discuss different styles and trends in headshot photography.

We discuss how the client needs to brief the photographer about where the images are going to be used and what look they want. But equally many clients need help expressing this and it's the photographers job to help them do this. Client using a range of clothing on a shoot helps to get a variety of shots, and that means it looks like they were shot on different days in different locations. Reminiscing on a shoot she did with her own photographer, Christine discusses how the client has to be clear in their aims but acknowledged that it is a two way process, as the photographer is the specialist. Christine feels very confident in front of the camera but still really believes spending time with the photographer before the shoot helps build the “bond”. We go on to discuss retouching in particular filters and how far you go with the retouch ie over-smoothing and loosing authenticity.

Christine works with a lot of start up creatives and offered up the following advice for those starting out in the business:

• Don’t be overwhelmed by the amount of competition.
• The importance of having a style
• Trust is very important and this needs to be combined with a strong connection
• Build an appropriate photographic portfolio
• Be clear with what you offer
• Network with other photographers. You will gain insights, gain friends and gain work. Photographers may need second shooters that they know and trust. And they may have referrals. Dates they can;t make or leads who are the wrong fit for them, but could be perfect for you.

You can find more about Christine here:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinethecoach/

https://www.creativestartupacademy.com/academy/

This week Marcus and Sam discuss the use of black and white photography.
Marcus did a poll on LinkedIn and found that (from the sample of people who responded) people preferred colour for a head shot, but like black and white photography in their homes.
William Eggleston a famous photographer did an exhibition in the Museum of modern art, New York in the mid 1970s and he used colour. At the time the critics said his use of colour was “vulgar”.
Marcus thinks that using actual film, black and white film, and developing it yourself will expand your understanding of black and white photography. Now the software we use for photography still uses many of the terms that come from those original dark room techniques. And they will make more sense once you have experienced developing actual film. There are photography clubs all over the country that have dark rooms you will be able to use.

Marcus also think photography books are also a great way to learn about black and white photography. Also go and look at photographic exhibitions and how those photographers use black and white photography.

Sam and Marcus then talk about the use of black and white commercially. Black and white is great for headshots. Also, for some businesses black and white can really match their brand. Some brands need some bright colours, but for others black and white can work really well for their brand. Barbara Kruger is a famous photographer who used red text against black and white photography which was a great look and could work really well for a brand.
At weddings black and white can be used. It’s used often when the weather is bad as it helps deal with poor light. But black and white can also be used for effect on any wedding. But as the shots will be digital these can be made black and white after the event.
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SEO Part one There are going to be three podcasts on SEO.

1. Planning
2. External SEO
3. Internal SEO

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠

⁠01482 765871

This episode is all about SEO Planning.
The first thing is not to do any SEO until you have done your planning. Until you know what words you want to be found for, how do you know what to do?
Lots of people love to tick boxes etc and feel they are doing SEO, but unless you are aiming towards something it is pointless.
What so you need to plan:
1. The key words / phrases you want to be found for
2. Geography – what geographic areas do you want to be discovered in?
It’s important to look at how difficult is it to be found for your keywords / phrases in different towns / areas.  It’s good to look at lots of combinations. It may be it’s a lot easier to be found as a wedding photographer in a town ten miles away, than it is in your local town. So you may be better aiming there instead of in your local town, where there is more competition.
Keywords
You need to put yourself in the minds of a potential client. What might they be searching for. This will be much more than simply portrait photographer. Google comes up with alternatives to searches. Answer The Public also gives you loads of alternative search phrases to help you find search terms people might be using.  Using these tools and your brain come up with a big list of keywords and phrases that you want to be found for.
Geography
Then think about what areas you want to be found in. Think about local towns and villages, but then also counties and regions. There are quite a variety and it may be that you focus different search terms in different areas.

Keyword data
You then need to get data on these keywords and areas. Most places charge for this, but some may let you access the information for free. Google data is available if you have an active Google Ads account. Data can be from places like Moz ahref, Google keyword planner.  These give you vital information:

1.     Search volume.
You can see here how many people are searching for a particular search term in a particular area per month. If the numbers are too low there is no point trying to rank for this word/ phrase as it won’t bring many visitors

2.     Competitiveness
This tells you how much competition there is to rank for this word / phrase. This gives you a clue as to how much work you need to do to be found for this phrase in this area.

3.     Domain score of other sites ranking
You can see the domain score of other sites ranking. You can compare this to your own domain score to see how close your site is to theirs.

You then need to look at the data for your keywords in different areas and see which are the best combinations to go for. You are looking to find keywords in certain areas with a good number of searches that is not too competitive.
Without this work further SEO work is a waste of time.

Domain score
This is a score from 0 to 100 that every domain has. For a small business 20 is a really good score, you will never get to 80. You can get your domain score here.

Your domain score looks at how good Google thinks your website is. It uses

1. Traffic

How busy is your website? If it does not have many visitors you need to improve this if you want to improve your domain score

2. Engagement How long are visitors staying on your website and engaging with it
3. Backlinks How many other websites are linking to your website?

Finally here are some useful tools that are free:

Google Analytics – To see your visitor numbers to judge how effective your SEO work is

Google Search Console – Gives you search term data

Gareth says his focus is the monetisation of this autism. One of his obsessions is LinkedIn. And he decided with his knowledge of LinkedIn he should help people get better with Linkedin. Gareth is also a percussionist. Marcus explains we do have a show about what we can learn from the music business.
Gareth has been on LinkedIn just a year after I began. He has been on it 14 or 15 years. LinkedIn has been owned by Microsoft for quite a long time. More recently Microsoft has been getting more involved and they have been pushing users into paying for the use of the platform. Gareth says that up until recently it’s been possible to use LinkedIn as a free user. And if you use Linkedin to find a job then you can still manage free. But if you are trying to grow your tribe and your business it is very hard now without premium. It effects now even how much your posts are seen. LinkedIn give you a score your SSI score which you can find here. Having premium effects that score.

Gareth says that connecting with people is important and he has an connection message he thinks you should use. Gareth says an initial message ensures you get a higher connection rate and you get more of a response after the connection, if you started with a connection message. He thinks now up to 20 touches are needed on LinkedIn before you can get someone to do something you have asked.
Gareth says commenting on other peoples stuff is really important. He also says posting about other peoples work and asking questions is a great way to go.  Gareth recommends having a camera in your LinkedIn profile photo. That enables connections to know what you do almost instantly.
Gareth says he works on the principal that he gives away 80% of what he does. He wants people to see him as an authority in this field. So he gives them stuff people can test him on. They use it and then they start to trust him.
Gareth then talks about the SSI. This is based on 4 different scores added together. Those four scores are different aspect of LinkedIn such as interacting and connecting. Posting regularly and commenting and liking other peoples content is another part.

Gareth also recommends resisting using AI to create content. But says it’s great for structure and helping to improve your content.
Top voice is the next topic. For anyone with over 1000 followers you get asked by LinkedIn to comment on some things. You can use this to become a “top voice”. To do this you have to answer and write comments on AI generated content. So Gareth recommends follow the link when you are asked to comment, but then within that topic do not comment and move up to the top level where you can chose topics. You can then see all the topics A-Z. Pick one that is close to you, then in that section pick a sub-section relevant to you. Then comment only on topic in this area. Gareth recommends in these area to be provocative and ruffle some feathers. That will get responses. You only get top voice if your comments get further comments and interaction.

Gareth’s final tip is ensure you have the odd spelling mistake in some things you do to show you are not AI. Also avoid “Z”s in your work, which shows that content has been made by AI using American spelling.

Andrew is a Sydney, Australia based photographer. He started an interview based podcast 12 years ago and now podcasting is what he spends most of his time doing, his wife runs the photography guests. In that time he has spoken to over 600 guests. He finds that the listeners get the most from listening to the average photographer working hard in their business. But he has spoken to some very famous photographers including Ben Chrisman, Gable Clintop, Gable Peterson, Sue Bryce.
Andrew says he used to be part of the AIPP going to conferences and learning a lot. He was also an avid podcast listener and wondered why there weren’t podcasts where you can learn the things you do at these conferences. So he set one up where you could.

Sam asks about the photography industry. Andrew says its very similar the world over. You get out what you put in. You can make a great living and a great life, but you have to put in the time and work to make this happen. Sam asks time and work doing what. Andrew says everything in the business. Accounts, marketing, HR sales. Marcus says that marketing is so much more important than it ever was. Andrew says most people focus too much on getting more leads rather then working more on educating and converting those leads. So Andrew says it is important to ensure that you focus on how you convert leads into customers. Andrew says he was talking to a dog photographer who generated 150 leads at a dog show, but he is struggling to convert them. Unless he gets that proves sorted then then the show will be a waste of time. Andrew says he needs to work on a script, that doesn’t sound scripted to talk through on the phone. To move them from a lead to a customer.
Marcus moves onto problems photographers have. Andrew says many photographers count themselves as natural light photographers. Andrew thinks photographers using natural light only are often under skilled and lead to learn more about lighting. There is a show about lighting which you can find here. Marcus says you have so much more confidence having a full understanding of lighting. Sam asks what photographers should do to learn more about lighting. Andrew says Youtube tutorials are the simplest place to start. But then people also like teaching in person and getting some tuition from a photographer who offers training. The other thing is to simply get some lights and get out there and try them.
Marcus asks about marginal gains that photographers could do in their business. Andrew says optimising your price list to allow your clients to spend more is a good thing to do. He talked to Sarah Louise Jackson a  photographer in Melbourne. Her pricing was setup to persuade customers to move up to the next level. Tony Tafe a headshot photographer in the US changed prices for headshot photographers in the US and made it easier for customers to spend more.

Sam asks if there is anything he has learnt from guests on his podcasts recently. He says he was talking to a family photographer who at the end of the season has an exhibition showing 1 shot from each photoshoot she has done. And everyone in the exhibition comes, brings their family and friends and she sells lots more photoshoots at the exhibition. He says for commercial photographers LinkedIn is very important and Jeff Brown is an expert on this, you can listen to the show with him here. Andrew says the technique Jeff uses on LinkedIn is to alternate business and personal posts. People interact with the personal post which then helps to boost his business posts.
You can find Andrew and his Podcast here.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠

⁠01482 765871⁠

This week Sam and Marcus discuss the “Call to Action". A key concept in marketing in general that is used a lot in websites.

What is a “call to action”?

In marketing it is the action you want someone to take. In the case of a website it is what you want the visitor to do before they leave the website.

When creating a call to action there are a few things to think about.
Tempting, a call to action needs to tempt your audience to follow it.
Relevant to your target audience, make it specific for your audience.

Time limited (optional), for example have an offer that finishes on a certain date.
Clear, make your call to action short and very clear.

It can be hard to get a key message into a very short call to action. But remember there can be text above the call to action giving a little explanation and context. But we understand that keeping those can to actions brief can be hard.
What are call to actions for?
1. The end point of the website. Often for a photographer this could be “call now” or “email now”.

2. Then call to actions to direct visitors around the website. Getting visitors to the pages or sections of the site relevant to them.

Repetition
Repetition is vital for call to actions. Your site should have a small number of call to actions, but they should be repeated throughout the site. You should also have a limited number of call to actions. Probably 2 or 3 for a small site. But these call to actions should be repeated throughout the site.

Placing call to actions
It’s important to have a clear call to action “above the fold” – on the part of the website people can see before they see.

Ideas for end point call to actions
Using calendly (or similar apps) can work well so visitors can book a call with you. If you are asking people to book a call then tempting them with an outcome can  work well. For example book a call to get "5 styling tips for your brand", if you are a brand photographer. Equally with offering “send an email” explaining what they will gain by dropping you an email is always good. The free give away is very popular as a call to action and can work well. You give a free give-away, often a pdf, and visitors give you their email address in return.

Do all websites need call to actions?
No. For some websites the sales process is elsewhere, not on the website. The website is simply there to say the right thing when the business is checked out by someone who is a potential customer. But for that potential customer the sales process is elsewhere. But for most of us, call to actions are essential.

Jeff Brown is a photographer and Photographer mentor. He works with photographers in twenty five different countries, he is an ambassador for Olympus cameras ,he is President of the BIPP and he has written four best selling photography business books. His fifth book is being written at the moment. He aims to help photographers get past the procrastination and get on with their business.

Jeff first came across the BIPP while he was in the military. The BIPP is the oldest professional association and was formed in 1901. At the time Jeff was training in the Royal Navy as a photographer and the BIPP certified his course. His course was 26 weeks with 26 exams, it was hard work. But Jeff passed, became certified and became a member.

Jeff has been president for the last year. He has realised that the association needs to appeal to younger and a more diverse membership. The BIPP is now open to anyone around the world. As it is so old it has a large archive of documents photographs and more. The head office of the BIPP is in Preston.

Jeff and Marcus then talk about what the BIPP do now. They have a monthly image competition. Photographers can add a single image for free and add more if they wish. It has brought members together commenting on each others work in a positive way and spurs people on to get involved. Jeff says some people ask what they get from the BIPP. He says the key is you get out what you put in. There is now a BIPP podcast, an active Facebook group a legal advice team, public liability insurance for members, a resources library (for your businesses) and more. The membership also gives you membership to the FEP which is the Federation of European Photographers and a membership of over 50,000 photographers. Being such a large organisation they have a strong voice.
There are two membership levels. Active membership and non-active membership. The non-active is for those who were in business, no longer work in photography or have retired, but want to remain part of the organisation.

Marcus asks where Jeff sees commercial photography at the moment, he says there are more professional photographers than there ever have been. But there is also more demand than there ever has been. Businesses no longer just get photographers in once or twice a year, they get them in much more regularly to feed the demand for social media images.
Most competition is at the bottom end of the market which is very price sensitive. These photographers are generalists. So Jeff says the best thing you can do as a photographer to get out of this, is to get a niche, become a specialist, build a brand and put your prices up. There are people out there willing to pay for photography. To get that work you need to niche, build your brand and look high end. So provide a first class service, understand your customers need. And the bottom end of the market isn’t going to get any easier with the likes of AI.

Jeff says there is huge amount of automation in many fields like car plants and farms. But there are still lots of people in these areas and it is the same with photography, it will always need people. Remember that taking the photographs is only one part of the story. We need to ensure we explain the rest of this story to potential clients to show the value we provide. Jeff says some images on social are clearly AI or AI altered and aren’t as realistic as proper photos and do not get as much engagement on social. For events like weddings a person will always be needed to capture the event.
Marcus thinks that a photographer selling ideas is the future, not just an image. Jeff says this is a great idea, providing videos and other extras with a photoshoot adds value. Jeff is very confident about the future of photography. But he says it’s important to remember to look at your business and remember that the image is only one part of the service you provide.

In this episode we discuss lenses. Types brands and uses. And Marcus takes us through the lenses he uses on an average photo shoot.

Jo wants to help people who don’t want an average vision. She asks them if the level of effort they are putting in reflects in their bank balance, but for most people that is not the case. Jo finds that most people don’t know how to sell or land business. Once she helps them with that they can afford her and move everything else forward. One of the things Jo shows people is that it doesn’t matter what you do, it’s how you present yourself that is important. And once they do that the work follows.
Jo says she helps people present themselves in the best possible way. But there is a problem. People can see her, and in many ways photography, as a luxury. So a photographer needs to show a potential customer what they are going to gain from the photography, and what losses will be avoided.
Marcus explains what she is saying follows a Japanese philosophy he follows Ikigai. It has four tenants. Jo has mentioned two of them. Getting paid for what you do and adding value.
Jo says if you don’t believe in yourself you are never going to get work. She also says the prices needed to reflect your value. And if you are very good at what you do, charge accordingly.  The conversation then moved onto mindset and Jo says the key is that it is simple. But that doesn’t mean it is easy. The first step is self awareness. Be able to see the  doubts and negativity in your mind. That awareness then flows onto to the changes being possible. They discuss the Jeff Olson book The Slight Edge that talks about this gradual change. In Marcus Galdwells Outliers he says you have to put 10,000 hours into something to become an expert. Jo says it is a journey and you need to enjoy that journey. Ask what a confident person would do and how would they behave.  Jo says awareness and little and often changes are really key.

That self awareness and confidence is vital to the process of photography. Jo says it’s important that this inner confidence is important. And that the work on improving ourselves is vital every day.  Not many people like their photograph being taken and so that confidence and calmness is essential.

Jo likens your self confidence to being on a perch. If you have self belief and self confidence then day to day issues won’t knock you off your perch. But if your confidence is not in place, you can easily be knocked off your perch.

Marcus brings up the idea of melancholia and getting creativity from the darker times. Jo says that everyone will go though these times but what’s vital is that when you go through this you are aware what is happening and being aware that “this too shall pass”. Working through it is more possible with strength and resilience.

Other book recommendations

Beyond positive thinking, Dr Robert Anthony

The courage to be disliked   

As a final thought Marcus brings up sods law, which he thinks he is effected by. Jo says here partly this is about letting go and saying what am I doing this day to make this day count. 

In this weeks episode we welcome our first guest Charlott McAnsh from See No Bounds

Charlott talks to us about how important it is to have brand photographs to promote your business. And how important it is get out from behind the camera and show your self!

Having recently had a branding photo shoot, and having been regularly photographed since her student days, when she was a model, Charlott knows what it is like to being in front of the lens. She loves receiving directions and natural posing tips. But she also realises that, this is her preference. And so listening and adapting tot he client is a key skill for photographers. The importance of a “discovery call” is discussed to make sure branding is on point and a relationship is established.

Charlott and See No Bounds recommend setting up a subscription service - it offers so many advantages to both client and photographer and you can listen more about this in our episode "Offering Subscriptions Services to your clients". It gives you the chance to get to know the client better and you can offer seasonal photo shoots. Offering a make up artist and stylist can really add value to your shoots, it’s all about the experience!

We go on to discuss the importance of story telling and research into the person you are photographing. It’s so important to listen to the client and adapt to their needs.

Of course we discuss the importance of networking and Charlott gave us some great tips on that too! And having a portfolio that is suited towards the job you are pitching for. Stories are so important when networking as they are more memorable than just a standard pitch.

Charlott McAnsh is the founder of See No Bounds, a network and business community that focus on connecting business owners, give exposure and a place where you will find support. Charlott has over 30 years of experience in events, hospitality, and customer service with a corporate background.

Having travelled all over the world she is a master connector, and her goal is to see businesses succeed. She has an understanding for business development and business growth and has created a platform that provides resources and support to the next generation of entrepreneurs. Charlott is an experienced mentor, having helped many young people develop their skills and launch their own businesses.

 Her work has enabled many to reach their full potential and succeed in their chosen field and years later she keeps connected with the teams she has worked with over the years.

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlott-mcansh-see-no-bounds/

See No Bounds is a Business Network and Community where all the necessary principles of advertisement, education, promotion, and interaction has come together in one place. With an interactive platform you can find more connections and engage with the network.

You can advertise your blogs, vlogs and podcast and get more exposure for you and your business.

 https://seenobounds.co.uk/

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