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Date
Titre
Durée
13 Mar 2022
Lattices and Michigan Football with Chris Peikert
01:10:01
We're back! With an episode on lattice-based cryptography, with Professor Chris Peikert of the University of Michigan, David's alma mater. When we recorded this, Michigan football had just beaten Ohio for the first time in a bajillion years, so you get a nerdy coda on college football this time!
The US government released a memo about moving to a zero-trust network architecture. What does this mean? We have one of the authors, Eric Mill, on to explain it to us.
Side channels! Frequency scaling! Key encapsulation, oh my! We're talking about the new Hertzbleed paper, but also cryptography conferences, 'passkeys', and end-to-end encrypting yer twitter.com DMs.
Adam Langley (Google) comes on the podcast to talk about the evolution of WebAuthN and Passkeys!
David's audio was a little finicky in this one. Believe us, it sounded worse before we edited it. Also, we occasionally accidentally refer to U2F as UTF. That's because we just really love strings.
Are the isogenies kaput?! There's a new attack that breaks all the known parameter sets for SIDH/SIKE, so Steven Galbraith helps explain where the hell this came from, and where isogeny crypto goes from here.
Xbox 360 HMAC: https://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/Xbox_360_Timing_Attack
Google Keyczar HMAC bug (reported by Nate): https://rdist.root.org/2009/05/28/timing-attack-in-google-keyczar-library/
Errata
HMAC actually published in 1996, not 1997
"That was one of the first, I think hardware applications of DPA was, was, um, satellite TV cards." Not true, they first were able to break Mondex, a MasterCard smart card
We have Sarah Harvey (@worldwise001 on Twitter) to talk about SOC2, what it means, how to get it, and if it's important or not. The discussion centers around two blog posts written by Thomas:
No not the movie: the secure group messaging protocol! Or rather all the bugs and vulns that a team of researchers found when trying to formalize said protocol. Martin Albrecht and Dan Jones joined us to walk us through "Practically-exploitable Cryptographic Vulnerabilities in Matrix".
Other clients: https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39252 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39254 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39264
We talk to Kevin Riggle (@kevinriggle) about complexity and safety. We also talk about the Twitter acquisition. While recording, we discovered a new failure mode where Kevin couldn't hear Thomas, but David and Deirdre could, so there's not much Thomas this episode. If you ever need to get Thomas to voluntarily stop talking, simply mute him to half the audience!
David and Deirdre gab about some stuff we didn't get to or just recently happened, like Tailscale's new Tailnet Lock, the Okta breach, what the fuck CISOs are for anyway, Rust in Android and Chrome, passkeys support, and of course, SBF.
Threema with Kenny Paterson, Matteo Scarlata and Kien Tuong Truong
01:03:55
Another day, another ostensibly secure messenger that quails under the gaze of some intrepid cryptographers. This time, it's Threema, and the gaze belongs to Kenny Paterson, Matteo Scarlata, and Kien Tuong Truong from ETH Zurich. Get ready for some stunt cryptography, like 2 Fast 2 Furious stunts.
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) with Raphael Robert
00:55:02
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) 1.0 is (basically) here! We invited Raphael Robert, coauthor of the MLS specification to explain it to us and answer our annoying questions (read: why does this exist?)
WhatsApp Key Transparency with Jasleen Malvai and Kevin Lewi
00:55:43
WhatsApp has announced they’re rolling out key transparency! Doing this at WhatsApp-scale (aka billions and biiillions of keys) is a significant task, so we talked to Jasleen Malvai and Kevin Lewi about how it works.
Are Twitter’s new encrypted DMs unreadable even if you put a gun to Elon’s head? We invited Matthew Garrett on to do a deep decompiled dive into what kind of cryptography actually shipped.
Links: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/66791.html https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/encrypted-direct-messages https://www.techdirt.com/2023/05/11/twitter-launches-not-actually-encrypted-encrypted-dms/ BrokenKDF2BytesGenerator: https://github.com/bcgit/bc-java/blob/master/prov/src/main/java/org/bouncycastle/jce/provider/BrokenKDF2BytesGenerator.java#L70 Analysis from sweis: https://twitter.com/sweis/status/1657082478727933954?s=20 https://signal.org/docs/specifications/x3dh/ https://signal.org/docs/specifications/doubleratchet/ https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages Trail of Bits has not audited nor signed a contract yet, per Platformer: https://www.platformer.news/p/why-you-cant-trust-twitters-encrypted
Why do we think anything is secure, with Steve Weis
00:46:17
What does P vs NP have to do with cryptography? Why do people love and laugh about the random oracle model? What's an oracle? What do you mean factoring and discrete log don't have proofs of hardness? How does any of this cryptography stuff work, anyway? We trapped Steve Weis into answering our many questions.
Links: - The Random Oracle Methodology, Revisited: https://eprint.iacr.org/1998/011.pdf - Factoring integers with CADO-NFS: https://www.ens-lyon.fr/LIP/AriC/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/JDetrey-tutorial.pdf - On One-way Functions from NP-Complete Problems: https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/513.pdf - Seny Kamara's lecture notes on provable security: https://cs.brown.edu/~seny/2950-v/2-provablesecurity.pdf - How To Simulate It – A Tutorial on the Simulation Proof Technique: https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/046.pdf - A Survey of Leakage-Resilient Cryptography: https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/302 - A Decade of Lattice Cryptography: https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/939.pdf
We explore how the NIST curve parameter seeds were generated, as best we can, with returning champion Steve Weis!
“At the point where we find an intelligible English string that generates the NIST P-curve seeds, nobody serious is going to take the seed provenance concerns seriously anymore.”
Signal's Post-Quantum PQXDH, Same-Origin Policy, E2EE in the Browser Revisted
01:19:05
We're back! Signal rolled out a protocol change to be post-quantum resilient! Someone was caught intercepting Jabber TLS via certificate transparency! Was the same-origin policy in web browers just a dirty hack all along? Plus secure message format formalisms, and even more beating of the dead horse that is E2EE in the browser.
Attacking Lattice-based Cryptography with Martin Albrecht
00:57:20
Returning champion Martin Albrecht joins us to help explain how we measure the security of lattice-based cryptosystems like Kyber and Dilithium against attackers. QRAM, BKZ, LLL, oh my!
Encrypting Facebook Messenger with Jon Millican and Timothy Buck
00:59:35
Facebook Messenger has finally been end-to-end encrypted, a couple of years after Mark Zuckerberg announced it! Plus Instagram DMs are trialing ephemeral E2EE DMs too! We invited on Jon Millican and Timothy Buck from Meta to discuss this major cross-platform endeavor, and how David Bowie fits into their personal Labyrinth.
High-assurance Post-Quantum Crypto with Franziskus Kiefer and Karthik Bhargavan
00:56:13
We welcome Franziskus and Karthik from Cryspen to discuss their new high-assurance implementation of ML-KEM (the final form of Kyber), discussing how formal methods can both help provide correctness guarantees, security assurances, and performance wins for your crypto code!
Apple iMessage is getting a big upgrade! Not only are they rolling out ratcheting, but they’re going post-quantum, AND they’re doing post-quantum ratcheting! Douglas Stebila joined us to talk about his security analysis of the new PQ3 protocol update and not indulge our wild Apple speculations:
Links: - https://security.apple.com/blog/imessage-pq3/ - Security analysis of the iMessage PQ3 protocol https://security.apple.com/assets/files/A_Formal_Analysis_of_the_iMessage_PQ3_Messaging_Protocol_Basin_et_al.pdf - Ratcheting design: https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/220.pdf - When Messages are Keys: Is HMAC a dual-PRF?: https://eprint.iacr.org/2023/861.pdf - Real World Deniability in Messaging: https://eprint.iacr.org/2023/403.pdf - Padmé: https://www.petsymposium.org/2019/files/papers/issue4/popets-2019-0056.pdf - Max Headroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYdpOjletnc - Extended Canetti-Krawczyk model: https://iacr.org/archive/eurocrypt2001/20450451.pdf - Douglas Stebila: https://www.douglas.stebila.ca/
(NSFW) Three AI-generated guests rank cryptography things into a tier list. Play along at home and make your own tier list: https://tiermaker.com/create/cryptography-15683166
This episode is definitely not safe for work and definitely a parody. Do not base your decision in the 2024 election off of this podcast episode. No campaigns have endorsed this podcast.
Josh Brown and Paul Grubbs join us to describe how those damned spam calls work, and how STIR/SHAKEN is supposed to try to stop them, but have other privacy and security implications as well.
Links: - https://hovav.net/ucsd/dist/draft-shacham-tls-fasttrack-00.txt - https://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/fasttrack.pdf - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8446 - SoK: SCT Auditing in Certificate Transparency: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.01661 - A hard look at Certificate Transparency, Part I: Transparency Systems: https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/transparency-part-1/ - A hard look at Certificate Transparency: CT in Reality: https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/transparency-part-2/ - E2EE on the web: is the web really that bad? https://emilymstark.com/2024/02/09/e2ee-on-the-web-is-the-web-really-that-bad.html - Launching Default End-to-End Encryption on Messenger: https://about.fb.com/news/2023/12/default-end-to-end-encryption-on-messenger/ - ekr's newsletter: https://educatedguesswork.org - Over 25 years of ekr RFCs: https://www.rfc-editor.org/search/rfc_search_detail.php?sortkey=Date&sorting=DESC&page=All&author=rescorla&pubstatus[]=Any&pub_date_type=any
We have Mark Dowd on, founder of Aziumuth Security and one of the authors of The Art of Software Security Assessment, to talk about the market for zero day vulnerabilities, and how mitigations affect monetizing offensive security work.
Are you going to be in Vegas during BlackHat / DEF CON? We're hosting a mixer, sponsored by Observa! We have limited capacity, so please only register if you can actually come. Location details are in the confirmation email. Tickets will be released in batches, so if you get waitlisted, there's a good chance you still get in. Looking forward to seeing you in Vegas!
We finally have an excuse to tear down Telegram! Their CEO got arrested by the French, apparently not because the cryptography in Telegram is bad, but special guest Matt Green joined us to talk about how the cryptography is bad anyway, and you probably shouldn't use Telegram as a secure messenger of any kind!
- https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2024/08/25/telegram-is-not-really-an-encrypted-messaging-app/ - Lavabit / Ladar Levinson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit - Pavel Durov indictment statement from French authorities: https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files/2024-08/2024-08-28%20-%20CP%20TELEGRAM%20mise%20en%20examen.pdf - MTProto 2.0 protocol spec: https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end - https://words.filippo.io/dispatches/telegram-ecdh/ - MTProto 1.0 (old no longer used): - https://web.archive.org/web/20131220000537/https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end#key-generation - OTR: https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/otr-wpes.pdf - AES and sha2 used in ‘Infinite Garble Extension’ mode: https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1177.pdf - Four Attacks and a Proof for Telegram: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=9833666 - History of Telegram e2ee chats availability: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)#Architecture - https://securitycryptographywhatever.com/2023/01/27/threema/ - https://securitycryptographywhatever.com/2022/11/02/Matrix-with-Martin-Albrecht-Dan-Jones/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(protocol), introduced in September 2014
With the 2024 United States Presidential Election right around the corner, we talk to an unnamed guest who has worked on cybersecurity for political campaigns in the United States since 2004. We recorded this in late August, 2024.
A Little Bit of Rust Goes a Long Way with Android's Jeff Vander Stoep
01:13:55
You may not be rewriting the world in Rust, but if you follow the findings of the Android team and our guest Jeff Vander Stoep, you'll drive down your memory-unsafety vulnerabilities more than 2X below the industry average over time! 🎉
Nothing we have ever recorded on SCW has brought so much joy to David. However, at several points during the episode, we may have witnessed Matthew Green's soul leave his body.
Our esteemed guests Justin Schuh and Matt Green joined us to debate whether `Dual_EC_DRBG` was intentionally backdoored by the NSA or 'just' a major fuckup.
- Dicky George at InfiltrateCon 2014, 'Life at Both Ends of the Barrel - An NSA Targeting Retrospective': [https://youtu.be/qq-LCyRp6bU?si=MyTBKomkIVaxSy1Q](https://youtu.be/qq-LCyRp6bU?si=MyTBKomkIVaxSy1Q) - Dicky George: [https://www.nsa.gov/Press-Room/Digital-Media-Center/Biographies/Biography-View-Page/Article/3330261/richard-dickie-george/](https://www.nsa.gov/Press-Room/Digital-Media-Center/Biographies/Biography-View-Page/Article/3330261/richard-dickie-george/) - NYTimes on Sigint Enabling Project: [https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/05/us/documents-reveal-nsa-campaign-against-encryption.html](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/05/us/documents-reveal-nsa-campaign-against-encryption.html) - On the Practical Exploitability of Dual EC in TLS Implementations: [https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity14/sec14-paper-checkoway.pdf](https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity14/sec14-paper-checkoway.pdf) - Wired - Researchers Solve Juniper Backdoor Mystery; Signs Point to NSA [https://www.wired.com/2015/12/researchers-solve-the-juniper-mystery-and-they-say-its-partially-the-nsas-fault/](https://www.wired.com/2015/12/researchers-solve-the-juniper-mystery-and-they-say-its-partially-the-nsas-fault/) - ProPublica - Revealed: The NSA's Secret Campaign to Crack, Undermine Internet Security [https://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption) - DDoSecrets - Sigint Enabling Project: [https://data.ddosecrets.com/Snowden%20archive/sigint-enabling-project.pdf](https://data.ddosecrets.com/Snowden%20archive/sigint-enabling-project.pdf) - IAD: [https://www.iad.gov/](https://www.iad.gov/) - Ars Technica - “Unauthorized code” in Juniper firewalls decrypts encrypted VPN traffic: [https://web.archive.org/web/20151222023311/http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/12/unauthorized-code-in-juniper-firewalls-decrypts-encrypted-vpn-traffic/](https://web.archive.org/web/20151222023311/http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/12/unauthorized-code-in-juniper-firewalls-decrypts-encrypted-vpn-traffic/) - 2015 IMPORTANT JUNIPER SECURITY ANNOUNCEMENT: [https://web.archive.org/web/20151221171526/http://forums.juniper.net/t5/Security-Incident-Response/Important-Announcement-about-ScreenOS/ba-p/285554](https://web.archive.org/web/20151221171526/http://forums.juniper.net/t5/Security-Incident-Response/Important-Announcement-about-ScreenOS/ba-p/285554) - Extended Random Values for TLS: [https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rescorla-tls-extended-random-00](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rescorla-tls-extended-random-00) - The Art of Software Security Assessment: [https://www.amazon.com/Art-Software-Security-Assessment-Vulnerabilities/dp/0321444426](https://www.amazon.com/Art-Software-Security-Assessment-Vulnerabilities/dp/0321444426)
Quantum Willow with John Schanck and Samuel Jacques
00:53:36
THE QUANTUM COMPUTERS ARE COMING...right? We got Samuel Jacques and John Schanck at short notice to answer that question plus a bunch of other about error correcting codes, logical qubits, T-gates, and more about Google's new quantum computer Willow.
Just a few days before turning off the lights, the Biden administration dropped a huge cybersecurity executive order including a lot of good stuff, that hopefully [cross your fingers, knock wood, spin around three times and spit] will last into future administrations. We snagged some time with Carole House, outgoing Special Advisor and Acting Senior Director for Cybersecurity and Critical Infrastructure Policy, National Security Council in the Biden-Harris White House, to give us a brain dump.
And now due to popular demand, with video of our actual human¹ faces! https://youtu.be/Pqw0W2crQiM
'Let us model our large language model as a hash function—'
Sold.
Our special guest Nicholas Carlini joins us to discuss differential cryptanalysis on LLMs and other attacks, just as the ones that made OpenAI turn off some features, hehehehe.
Watch episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/vZ64xPI2Rc0
Apple Pulls Advanced Data Protection in the UK with Matt Green and Joe Hall
00:48:30
Apple has pulled the availability of their opt-in iCloud end-to-end encryption feature, called Advanced Data Protection, in the UK. This doesn't only affect UK Apple users, however.
To help us make sense of this surprising move from the fruit company, we got Matt Green, Associate Professor at Johns Hopkins, and Joe Hall, Distinguished Technologist at the Internet Society, on the horn.
Deirdre, Thomas and David talk about NSO group, Pegasus, whether iOS a burning trash fire, the zero-day market, and whether rewriting all of iOS in Swift is a viable strategy for reducing all these vulns.
The Great "Roll Your Own Crypto" Debate with Filippo Valsorda
01:00:48
Special guest Filippo Valsorda joins us to debate with Thomas on whether one should or should not "roll your own crypto", and how to produce better cryptography in general.
We did not run out of things to talk about: Chrome vs. Safari vs. Firefox. Rust vs. C++. Bug bounties vs. exploit development. The Peace Corps vs. The Marine Corps.
We're talking about Apple's new proposed client-side CSAM detection system. We weren't sure if we were going to cover this, and then we realized that not all of us have been paying super close attention to what the hell this thing is, and have a lot of questions about it. So we're talking about it, with our special guest Professor Matthew Green.
We cover how Apple's system works, what it does (and doesn't), where we have unanswered questions, and where some of the gaps are.
How to be a Certificate Authority with Ryan Sleevi
01:34:11
Not the hero the internet deserves, but the one we need: it's Ryan Sleevi!
We get into the weeds on becoming a certificate authority, auditing said authorities, DNSSEC, DANE, taking over country code top level domains, Luxembourg, X.509, ASN.1, CBOR, more JSON (!), ACME, Let's Encrypt, and more, on this extra lorge episode with the web PKI's Batman.
A conversation that started with PAKEs (password-authenticated key exchanges) and touched on some cool math things: PRFs, finite fields, elliptic curve groups, anonymity protocols, hashing to curve groups, prime order groups, and more.
Hey, a new episode! We had a fantastic conversation with Jason Donenfeld, creator of our favorite modern VPN protocol: WireGuard! We touched on kernel hacking, formal verification, post-quantum cryptography, developing with disassemblers, and more!
Happy New Year! Feliz Navidad! Merry Yule! Happy Hannukah! Pour one out for the log4j incident responders!
We did a call-in episode on Twitter Spaces and recorded it, so that's why the audio sounds different. We talked about BLOCKCHAIN/Web3 (blech), testing, post-quantum crypto, client certificates, ssh client certificates, threshold cryptography, U2F/WebAuthn, car fob attacks, geese, and more!
We recorded this months ago, and now it's finally up!
Colm MacCárthaigh joined us to chat about all things TLS, S2N, MTLS, SSH, fuzzing, formal verification, implementing state machines, and of course, DNSSEC.
Tailscale with Avery Pennarun and Brad Fitzpatrick
01:18:22
“Can I Tailscale my Chromecast?”
You love Tailscale, I love Tailscale, we loved talking to Avery Pennarun and Brad Fitzpatrick from Tailscale about, I dunno, Go generics. Oh, and TAILSCALE! And DNS. And WASM.
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