Pop Fiction Women (Carinn & Kate)

NO SPOILERS in our conversation with Reese Witherspoon Book Club author Christie Tate discussing her refreshingly original debut memoir, Group: How One Therapist and a Circle of Strangers Saved My Life. We begin by talking about how Christie, having just been named the top student in her law school class, found herself in a deep depression with suicidal thoughts and turned to group therapy to change her life. ** We ask Christie whether you can be a person who has secrets and doesn’t want to burden others with your problems, but also be vulnerable and intimate in your relationships?  We loved hearing her explain how finding a witness and a way to place your burdens on another is a way of forming trust and intimacy. (04:48) ** Christie reminds us that the road to recovery is not linear and we need to make space for back steps, to see them as just another step along the path. (09:34) ** In group therapy, Christie’s goal is to find romantic love, to score her smooth, unattached heart. But can you be a complicated woman and still yearn for and need the love of a romantic partner? We doubt you’ll dub her a “bad feminist” after reading Group and listening to her response. (12:20) ** When women write memoir, critics call them “brave”... we ask Christie whether she thinks the term is condescending or whether it is just a fact that writing your pure truth for all the world is actually an act of courage? Her thoughtful response about how she has come full circle on this question and how context matters has us reeling. (19:29) ** Let’s play a game! Christie asks us to share which famous people we would each want in our own ideal group therapy session. We had so much fun with this exercise! Christie even made us our own personal Pop Fiction Women group made up of fictional characters! (24:10) ** Three over-achieving lawyers (Christie, Carinn and Kate) discuss the mask of perfectionism, aka we engage in group therapy. (35:32) ** Of course we discuss astrology, but this time Christie actually let Carinn run her birth chart. We knew she was a Cancer, but her chart was full of additional surprises! She is super fiery even among two fire signs! (37:24) ** Speaking of things destined in the stars, Carinn and Christie share what they recall about how they met and how their friendship has grown over the years. It all began with a blog post about motherhood and Chilean miners. Whaaaat? (41:00) ** We return to a favorite theme of fate vs free will and Christie shares how the vision for Group just popped into her head while trying to write fiction and how the universe intervened in helping her on her road to publication. (45:40) ** Christie shares what she is loving right now in books, TV, movies and music. (50:56) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We welcome Lisa Taddeo, author of the #1 New York Times bestseller and international phenomenon Three Women, to discuss her new novel. Animal is a depiction of female rage at its rawest, and a visceral exploration of the fallout from a male-dominated society. ** We start by talking to Lisa about how she is feeling given the magnitude of her fiction debut, following the phenomenon that was Three Women.  (01:20) ** Joan, the depraved protagonist of Animal, will be deemed unlikable by some. We loved Lisa’s answer about this label and how her goal was to write a story where Joan could be completely honest and say everything she wanted. (03:04) ** In both Three Women and Animal Lisa explores the loneliness of the mistress and her thoughts on loneliness being the most vulnerable thing any of us can experience blew us away. (06:12) ** Animal pushes the envelope in terms of depicting the cycle of trauma. Listen to Lisa discuss how trauma marks us and becomes a magnet for other traumas. (10:17) ** Animal explores motherhood and the parent-child relationship and how that affects the rest of our lives. Things get deep when we talk “mommy issues” and how Lisa’s raw writing from her wounds opened up our own as readers. (14:00) **  We talk about grief, and the anger that flows from it. Does society let women express their rage in the way men are permitted to? Definitely not. (19:48). ** Lisa and Carinn bond over how American mothers’ martyrdom syndrome stems from masked fear and anxiety. Kate has a true lightbulb moment listening to them and finally understands their point of view! (24:20) ** Carinn asks her burning question about Big Sky and whether there is any hope for Joan and him to live out their “warped fairy tale” someday.  (29:37) ** Joan and Alice really “see” each other and Lisa shares how much she values the platonic relationships she has with other women in her own life.  (32:02) ** We talk astrology with Lisa, a true Capricorn, and she boldly declares that the world is divided between those who believe in astrology and those who don’t. You know which side we’re all on! (35:00). ** We share our casting dreams for Joan and get the update on her upcoming Showtime adaptation of Three Women. (39:30) ** Lisa has plans to deliver a reported memoir on grief but the possibility of another novel has us freaking out with excitement. (43:00) ** Lisa shares the books she’s loving right now. (44:47) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. Join Patreon to hear a bonus extended version of our interview with Lisa where we discuss who Joan is writing to throughout the novel -- and we get into that ending. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome Colleen McKeegan to discuss her debut novel, The Wild One, which is now out in paperback! The Wild One is a coming of age mystery that explores the ways trauma and societal expectations shape the women we become. We chat with Colleen about what it really feels like to publish a book; the “origin story” of this book and how it morphed from a middle grade novel inspired by the movie “Stand By Me” into what it is today – something she herself wanted to read; the importance of the summer camp setting of the story and what it means to her personally; the sometimes messy and darker nature of female friendship, particularly when coming of age; and her serendipitous path to publication. The Wild One is out now in paperback! Buy it, read it, share it and listen to our spoiler-free interview wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carinn and Kate are joined by special guest and friend, Caro Burke, a writer whose MFA thesis examined the portrayal of both target and perpetrator of sexual assault in contemporary literature. We are thrilled to have her with us to discuss this game-changer of a movie.   ** Bait and switch? We start by discussing what our expectations were for this movie from the trailer vs the final product. (03:15) ** Complicated Woman: Cassie. Even the character’s name, Cassandra, is a nod to Greek mythology with a deeper meaning you need to know. (07:58) ** Scenes. We discuss so many of our favorite scenes: (1) the opening sequence where Cassie ominously announces - “I said what are you doing?” (09:36); (2) the two scenes involving Alison Brie and Connie Briton that reveal so much about Cassie’s character, but also about how other women are complicit (14:43); (3) the falling in love sequence with Bo Burnham that is straight out of a romcom (23:22); (4) the soliloquy at the end that made Carey Mulligan want to do this movie in the first place and that shocking ending (33:50). ** What’s Your Damage, Heather? We discuss Cassie as an addict, which was a surprising element of her damage straight from creator Emerald Fennell. (45:02) ** What She said - Emerald Fennell. We deep dive into this multi-talented, Oscar-winning actress, screenwriter, director and producer for some amazing quotes and things to think about. Are women allowed to imagine things? (47:47) ** Who Won The Movie? For us, it’s the aesthetics, hands down: the set design, the wardrobe, the music, in other words, the beautifully wrapped candy that is this movie. (55:10) ** Takeaways - The Burke Test. We put Promising Young Woman through the factors of the “Burke Test,” which is a test Caro defined for exploring depictions of sexual violence in contemporary literature. Move over Bechdel test, we’ve got the Burke Test for you! (59:22)  ** For Carinn’s takeaway she raises the villain aspect … the nuanced portrayals of villains and “bad guys” in this movie. There are no clear answers, which adds to the brilliance of the film. (77:22) ** For her takeaway, Kate returns to a favorite theme...female friendship and how this movie is a love letter from Cassie to Nina. (84:35) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deborah Vance, played so brilliantly by the great Jean Smart, ends this first episode bloodied, clawing her way over whatever obstacles she faces. Now an underdog, Deborah is leaving Las Vegas, the city she once ruled, to hit the road and reinvent herself with Ava (precariously) by her side. There will be blood, as the title of this first episode foretells, but there is also going to be vulnerability and humor and self-discovery. The amazingly funny supporting cast is all back to add laughs, as well as touching emotional beats to this rich story. The writing team of Lucia Aniello (who also directs this episode), Paul Downs, and Jen Statsky are still at the top of their game and we can’t wait to see where they take us this season. We are ALL in! Hop on the tour bus with us and listen to our recap now. And remember what Kiki tells us: “Do not fuck with Deborah Vance!” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we chat with Genevieve Wheeler about her debut novel ADELAIDE. Listen to our spoiler-free episode while you wait for your copy to arrive!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we are thrilled to welcome back Lisa Taddeo, the author of the #1 New York Times bestseller Three Women, which she is adapting as a dramatic series at Showtime, and the novel Animal. Her short stories have not only been nominated for, but won the Pushcart Prize -- twice. Both of those stories are included in her new collection, GHOST LOVER, which is out now! ** We discuss the complicated relationships that complicated women have with one another, and why Lisa continues to explore and expose the darker side of how women treat other women. Listen to hear why Lisa feels a kinship with Taylor Swift! (01:24) ** But if there’s a ray of hope in the darkness that sometimes shrouds relationships between women, this collection shows that women can be both the greatest source of our pain but also be our deepest source of healing. (05:38) ** Continuing with the dynamics among women, we praise Lisa for nailing the scathing internal self-criticism and loathing that often consume women. Lisa gives us advice on how to embrace the things that make us feel good and to change the narrative around youth, thinness and the ideal of physical perfection. (13:18) ** We get the scoop on the upcoming Showtime adaptation of Three Women. (25:00) ** Lisa explains how focusing on the female gaze was a priority for her in the adaptation, showcasing how the sex feels for the woman. (27:26) ** We find out what’s next for Lisa…there are lots of projects in the works! (29:42) ** In our final minutes, we turn back to Ghost Lover to discuss the armor women build around grief and pain (for which we are harshly judged), and the vulnerability infused in Lisa’s writing. She says we SEE her and GET her, but the feeling is completely mutual. (31:21) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode we welcome Daisy Alpert Florin to discuss her incredible debut, My Last Innocent Year. Listen to our spoiler-free episode while you wait for your copy to arrive! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome Emily Habeck to discuss her stunning debut, Shark Heart, a love story that begins with newlyweds Wren and her husband, Lewis—a man who, over the course of nine months, transforms into a great white shark. This is a truly original and lyrical novel unlike anything we’ve ever read that explores grief, metamorphosis, intergenerational trauma, motherhood, loneliness and how we create a meaningful life. Our conversation with Emily is just as beautiful, unique and interesting thanks to her thoughtfulness and generosity.  Shark Heart is out now and it’s been selected as #1 on the Indie Next list for August and is a Book Of The Month pick too - believe the hype! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat with Emily wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today’s episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome Hazel Hayes to discuss her new novel, Better By Far, a genre-bending story about love and loss, hope and heartbreak, and the healing to be found in life’s little limbos, those in-between spaces where you’re no longer who you were and not yet the person you will be. We chat with Hazel about the concept of liminality and the importance of sitting with and processing grief; the connection between horror and love, and how both genres explore the human condition; the idea of soulmates and having an abundance mindset around love and connection; writing and the idea of leaving a piece of oneself on the page; and the role of astrology and spirituality as a way of finding meaning in cycles and community. Better By Far is out now! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat wherever you get your podcasts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In our series, Debut Discussions, we're asking debut authors to tell us their story -- not only the story in the novel they wrote -- but the journey they took to hold that book in their hands. On today's episode we're chatting with Yulin Kuang about her contemporary romance debut, How To End A Love Story, an emotional enemies-to-lovers story about two writers with a complicated history that end up working on the same TV show and trying to write themselves a new ending. Yulin, who is also a screenwriter and director, shares incredible examples of her early love of reading and storytelling, the role fanfiction played in her journey, how it feels to be adapting Emily Henry’s Beach Read and People We Meet On Vacation, the role of the Enneagram in her writing, and so much more! How To End A Love Story is out now -- buy it, read it, and share it (in other words, make a debut author’s dreams come true!). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carinn sighs with relief as the show hits its stride and Kate wonders what took her so long. We are both in the flow with Marianne and Connell, the tension between what they say and don't say, the yin and yang of their own personalities and the push and pull of their dynamic. It's everything. Episodes 3-5 have a nice little arc from the end of their relationship in high school, to the re-establishment of their connection at Trinity, to their OMFG sex reunion. *** Episode 3 starts off strong by bringing us back to high school as we watch Marianne and Connell navigate a nightclub scene and the aftermath of Marianne being groped. (4:40) *** Carinn and Kate both love the scene in bed when Marianne asks “who is that obvious to?” when Connell suggests his feelings for her are obvious. But this scene had more nuance in the book for us. (9:24) *** Connell’s panic attack is a new scene and it’s working so well for us in terms of insights into Connell and his actions thereafter. (12:48) *** We love Connell’s mother, Lorraine, even more than in the book (and we already loved her). She puts Connell in his place and calls him on his behavior, but is comforting Marianne a little much? (16:29) *** The “Debs” is a rough night for Connell and by the end we feel his torture deeply. (21:20) *** Episode 4 starts slow setting the scene for Connell at Trinity. Connell is struggling while Marianne is thriving so the tables are clearly turned. We also meet the cast of friends characters, which Kate thinks come to life better on the screen and Carinn preferred in the book. (23:45) *** Marianne and Connell are reunited at a party for one of our favorite scenes, but it's a mixed bag for us in the series vs the book. We agree, however, that it is definitely a moment. (29:30) *** Carinn loves the scene where Marianne and her friend discuss wanting a normal life, which reveals Marianne’s constant inner conflict. Kate is starting to want to actually hang out with Marianne. (35:50) *** Episode 5 begins and ends in the bedroom. Marianne reaches out to Connell because she wants him back in her life and Connell’s relief and happiness is written all over Paul Mescal’s beautiful face. (40:47) *** We love when Connell opens up to Marianne about his insecurity and inability to connect his college life with home and how to make it all fit. He finally apologizes to Marianne and she forgives him. The honesty and vulnerability hits us hard. (43:20) *** Marianne breaks up with Gareth, who Kate saw as a roadblock to Connell and Carinn always knew never stood a chance with Marianne. But it leads to one of our favorites scenes at the party where she gets drunk and high and hits on Connell. (49:46) *** Carinn has more thoughts on time and music choices, including a fun segment of what movie is the final moments of this show evoking with this song? She's trying to make light of something she does not understand, while Kate still doesn't care (61:04) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com Stay Complicated!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

WARNING - WHITE LOTUS S2 spoiler. Skip ahead 30 seconds at 12:30 then you can safely resume. Kate grows out of her comfort zone seeing the Broadway play And Juliet, while Carinn tries to break free from stale routine pertaining to a certain interview question. We discuss two unexpected Golden Globes moments: Andrew Garfield's knowledge of astrology and the reactions to Jennifer Coolidge's acceptance speech line "you make people want to live longer -- and I didn't." Kate's reading self-help and Carinn is RE-reading -- both new developments for us. Finally, we're watching Yellowjackets Season 1 in preparation for Season 2. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, we’re back to discuss the rest of Hacks season 3 (episodes 3-9), a show that continues to shine with the stellar writing of Lucia Aniello, Paul Downs, and Jen Statsky and the incredible cast lead by Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder (complemented by this season’s standout guest actors like J. Smith Cameron, Christina Hendricks, Helen Hunt, Tony Goldwyn, Deidre Hall, and Christopher Lloyd).  Everything in this show is layered and never just one thing - from Deborah’s quest to fulfill her lifelong dream of hosting late night TV to Ava’s pursuit to gain respect as she rises in the ranks while trying not to lose her own beliefs. We discuss that (surprising!?) ending and what it says about where Deborah and Ava are in their own journeys, our favorite moments from the season, and what we’re looking forward to next season. We know we will definitely be back! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We missed you so much Logan Roy. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Both Carinn and Kate are not happy with these episodes. Kate is frustrated watching Connell and Marianne not communicating and not connecting, while Carinn is upset with the way Marianne's character is being diluted and made more generic from the book. Lots to discuss here in episodes 6, 7 and 8. *** Episode 6 starts with a suggestion for a threesome and gets even more awkward from there. Marianne and Connell’s inability to communicate kicks into high gear, which makes this tough to watch. (3:05) *** Marianne’s damage is on full display during a difficult trip home to Sligo for a family dinner. (8:35) *** Marianne and Connell’s relationship starts to crack and Carinn sees a parallel with Jessica Simpson and John Mayer (for real?). (12:20) *** Episode 7 has a vibe like “The Affair”, showing different points of view and perspectives on the break up. Whose idea was it anyway? They both hear different things. Kate & Carinn really like the way this plays out on screen. (19:46) *** But they are definitely not happy with the cafe scene. Carinn reads from the novel to show how much we’re losing of Marianne’s inner life when this scene hits the screen. But it does support Carinn's crystal ball prediction from our original episode on Sally Rooney's novel. (21:42) *** The scene where Connell gets mugged and shows up bloody to Marianne’s flat is a mixed bag for us. Kate loves the moment of realization at the end when Marianne and Connell finally talk about their break up and say the things we wanted them to say all along. (34:05) *** Episode 8 takes us to Italy, and despite the beautiful scenery, we can’t get past Jamie’s one-dimensional ugliness. (41:32) *** Jamie and Marianne’s final fight leads to another scene with Connell and Marianne in bed, but this one gets heavy. Carinn and Kate discuss whether Connell can only initiate connection with Marianne when she’s damaged and vulnerable. (47:48) *** Um, what year is it again? Why did they start giving us month title cards without ever including the year? (58:29) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com Stay Complicated!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Please do us a favor and rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! (if we're not five stars to you, skip it) Follow @popfictionwomen on Instagram. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s Complicated Conversations we welcome back Becky Chalsen to discuss her new novel, Serendipity, a big-hearted, page-turner that delves deep into a complicated friend group as they navigate one messy yet magical midtwenties summer in a Fire Island share house.  We had so much fun chatting with Becky about how she turned her lifelong love of reading into the unimaginable dream of published author; the personal (sisterly) inspiration for her two main characters; the dynamics of friendship; the importance of living life to gather material for future books; the unpredictability of the future, and the value of observation and openness. Such incredible wisdom! Serendipity is out now. Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat with Becky wherever you get your podcasts.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're recapping the Prime adaptation of Daisy Jones & The Six, Episode 1 and it's giving us mixed emotions. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NO SPOILERS in this conversation with debut author and friend of the pod Rebecca Baum discussing her novel Lifelike Creatures *** Lifelike Creatures, set in rural Louisiana, is anchored around 13-year-old Tara and her mother Joan, who is an addict. One day there is an industrial disaster on their property and Joan becomes the accidental hero of the town, the face of a class action lawsuit and the community at large. Tara sees her mother with new eyes. As they get closer to a settlement, Joan collapses under the pressure and has a spectacular fall and Tara must decide if she will pick up her mother or shape her own fate. (02:26) *** We focus on complicated women in this podcast so Rebecca tells us more about both narrators -- mother and daughter -- and what challenges she encountered in shaping these two female protagonists. We loved hearing how these two characters evolved from some feedback in a writing workshop and how Rebecca surrendered and went with it. (04:35) *** Mommy issues are an emerging theme on the podcast and Tara and Joan’s relationship is complicated. Rebecca shared how she felt changing their relationship as she wrote, allowing a pressure that had built up on its own and letting the story inform her. (09:15) *** Rebecca tells us how she feels about Tara and Joan now and whether these deeply entrenched familial relationships can change. (14:20) *** This book is dedicated to Rebecca’s mother and she shares the profound ways in which she helped Rebecca cherish creativity and the arts. (17:54) *** Rebecca and Carinn have history...Rebecca shares her version of how they met. (21:07) *** Rebecca discusses when she knew she wanted to be a writer, but also when she decided to take it seriously. We loved hearing about how Rebecca was able to be more daring in her 40s and how this novel is debuting on her 50th birthday. Here’s to second acts! (22:35) *** Carinn talks process and gets into the details of when and where Rebecca writes. Carinn and Rebecca get deep about their writing and how it helps them make sense of things. (28:37) *** As always, we talk astrology...Rebecca is a Virgo who actually shared her birth chart with Carinn! She shares how her Virgo perfectionism seeps into her writing and revision. (35:29) *** Rebecca talks about how circumstances -- particularly ones as BIG as a pandemic -- can affect how we feel, think, act, and write. (40:28) *** We loved hearing about what else Rebecca is watching, reading or following right now, besides I May Destroy You and Pop Fiction Women of course! (46:45)   Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Holiday movies; the huge books of 2022 that we missed the boat on; end of year reflections. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we chat with Veronica Roth, the New York Times best-selling author of the #1 bestselling Divergent series, the Carve the Mark duology, Chosen Ones, and the short story collection The End and Other Beginnings. We discuss her latest novel, POSTER GIRL, a dystopian mystery with so many relatable themes. We chat with Veronica about her protagonist, Sonya, and why she veered from writing about the hero to someone who is guilty instead; how her books are always about the theme of freedom vs. duty, which is the essential struggle of every woman because we are taught not to not listen to ourselves or our wants in any profound way; what nickname she calls herself when she needs to be reminded to be her strongest self; Veronica’s obsession with voluntary mass surveillance and how the reward system in her novel has eerie parallels to social media; why she keeps writing even when every professional goal she initially set has been hit; how she knows what ideas to follow; and how her astrological chart confirms that she is in fact the very best writer! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There are so many incredible women on this show and we can't wait to see what trouble they get themselves in -- and out of -- in the final season. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome Emma Noyes to discuss her adult debut, Guy's Girl, a fevered-dream of a read about true love, self-love, and growing up. Born from her own struggles with disordered eating and reeling from a breakup, Emma shares how she wrote the book she wished she could read during her own pain and recovery. We discuss her development of her protagonist Ginny and where the lines of fact and fiction blur; what it means to be a “guy's girl” and our relationship to femininity; why she wanted to explore an emotionally unavailable male character; manipulation disguised as love; writing her own happily ever after into existence; and how control and vulnerability don’t necessarily mix.  Guy's Girl is out now! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re back with what we’re calling “the middle and the miscommunications” in our “Sally Sundays”. We have your read-along recap of pages 147-247 of Beautiful World, Where Are You. **  Speaking of miscommunication, we start by discussing Simon & Eileen’s will they or won’t they saga. We play armchair psychologists and analyze Eileen’s daddy issues and how it impacts her relationship with Simon. These two continue to confound us. (01:00) ** Eileen keeps insisting she just wants to be friends with Simon, whereas he is trying to be direct. We discuss why Eileen puts up her barriers to vulnerability and whether we think these two can ever be happy without her knowing what she truly wants.  (09:11)  ** Carinn declares that Sally Rooney shatters the very foundation on which she stands on by making her dig deep into what the “hate” means in the thin line of love and hate. (26:27) ** We move on to “Alix”, aka Alice & Felix.  What kind of miscommunication do we love? On the miscommunication spectrum of EIleen & Simon, Alice & Felix and Marianne & Connell, we each pick which ones we love and which we can’t stand. We discuss the antagonistic communication style of Alice & Felix and then put Carinn on the couch to discuss how she is really Alice. (31:27) ** Felix’s night out without Alice creates a lot of tension, and when he “gives in” and goes to Alice, Carinn thinks his cruelty is just a way for him to not feel he’s falling in love. We debate whether they are in love yet, when we each mark two people as being “in love”, and what that feels like. Does love come before a relationship or does a relationship come before love? (45:03) ** We go deep into how power dynamics between two people factor into miscommunications. Carinn blows Kate’s mind by suggesting that Eileen is the one with the power over Simon, and how her feeling of “powerlessness” is her giving away her power to avoid having to do the work of figuring out herself. (59:20) ** The emails in this section are not working for us like the prior ones, but we discuss those bits that did speak to us...her musings on what great novels do to us as readers and how Alice has had to re-think what love means. (71:46) ** We end with a discussion about desire and, as usual, Sally Rooney gives words to something Carinn has long felt. She presses us to examine…what are you really desiring? (80:45) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome back international bestselling author, Jo Piazza, to discuss her new novel, The Sicilian Inheritance. The Sicilian Inheritance is a must read … a dual timeline, dual POV novel that is part murder-mystery, part historical fiction, all parts women being badasses and finding their way in the world! We chat with Jo about the personal inspiration for this story that had her traveling to Sicily and investigating her great-grandmother’s murder; reclaiming womens’ narratives; motherhood and identity; women helping women, and the true crime podcast she’s created to accompany this novel. Jo is a total force who pursues all her passions fiercely - we are in awe! The Sicilian Inheritance is out now! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time to get complicated! We’re thrilled to be chatting with Mai Al-Nakib about her new novel, An Unlasting Home, a multigenerational saga that traces the lives of five formidable women across multiple countries and continents. ** After Mai describes that this is a story of inherited trauma, loss, migratory passages, and looking for home, we discuss the complicated women of this novel and the ways Mai connected them in the writing process. (03:50) ** The theme of mothers and daughters runs through this novel. We loved Mai’s explanation of her desire to explore the unspoken and unmarked inheritances that get passed down and shape each generation. (08:32) ** We discuss Maria and why Mai wanted to tell the story of the caretakers that care for the children of other women. (11:54) **  Mai explains how she figured out the form and narrative structure of this polyphonic complex novel. (16:05) ** Mai shares the meaning behind the title, the birds on the book cover and what it all has to do with James Joyce. (20:48) ** Our minds expand with some big questions about ethics vs morality and the question of how we live an ethical life. (24:38) ** Mai lets us in on what she is loving right now and the interesting seeds for her next novel. (30:11) You can contact Mai at: www.maialnakib.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fleabag Season Two & Phoebe Waller-Bridge: complicated in love **Complicated Woman: Fleabag. Our most complicated woman is back and we're unpacking the differences in Fleabag between the two seasons. Carinn and Kate surprisingly disagree on which version of Fleabag was closest to irredeemable. (01:59) and more at (48:56) **We check on Fleabag's relationship growth from season one. Godmother (08:24), Father, (11:04), Claire (16:11) **Meet the Priest. Every scene between Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Andrew Scott is electric, but we discuss a few of the most significant in Season Two. (26:33) **Feelings and the fox. Kate believes the most pivotal scene between Fleabag and Priest is in Episode 3. The fox seems to be a stand in for the priest conflicted feelings about celibacy and for Fleabag. When Fleabag turns to speak to the camera in her classic breaking of the fourth wall, the priest calls her out on it. He is literally the first person to actually SEE her. (27:25) **The Confessional Scene. Oh. My... you know the rest. (36:09) **The Wedding/Homily. The fox, the Alabama Shakes song, the sly and sad waive Fleabag gives to the camera: perfection. Love feels like hope. (44:40) **Things get heated. Between the Priest and Fleabag -- and Carinn and Kate!!! -- as they debate alcoholism, whether the end justifies the means and who had more responsibility in the bad choices that lead to the one fateful night between Priest and Fleabag. (48:56) **We play arm-chair therapist in What’s Your Damage, Heather? An homage to the iconic line in Winona Rider’s Heathers. Has Fleabag evolved from a “girl with no friends and an empty heart” to a woman in love? Can she ever learn to kneel? (63:47) **We tell you What She Said, the segment where we share some of our favorite first person quotes from Phoebe Waller-Bridge. **Kate shares a startling quote about how Phoebe-Waller Bridge wrote the part of Fleabag so she wouldn’t actually become her. (75:10) **Carinn shares a quote about Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s process, her enviable ability to throw it all away and the various places she finds inspiration that can unlock it all. (78:08) **Takeaways. Fleabag tells us at the outset that this is a love story, but there are so many including those of self-love. (87:50) Stay Complicated! Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Debut Discussions, we’re chatting with Lori Brand about her debut novel, Bodies To Die For, a psychological thriller that will have you wondering whether the perfect body really is worth dying for. Lori shares her journey to becoming a writer and the inspiration behind her book, which includes fangirling Gillian Flynn and Jillian Michaels and the controversy surrounding body positivity; the development of her main characters, Gemma and Ashley, and their issues with body image, self-acceptance, and shame; and the themes of the book around societal beauty standards and the importance of strength over thinness.  Lori has crafted a thriller with a relatable and timely message! Listen now to Lori’s story wherever you get your podcasts. Bodies To Die For is out now -- buy it, read it, and share it (in other words, make a debut author’s dreams come true!). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

**Major Season 2 spoilers, but NO Season 3 spoilers** Sera Gamble is a television writer, showrunner and producer, best known for her work on the Netflix series You, the Syfy series The Magicians and The CW series Supernatural. YOU is one of the most watched shows ever on Netflix and has just been renewed for Season Four! ** Sera shares what she saw in the very first pages of the novel by Caroline Kepnes that immediately told her this would make a great TV show. (01:48) ** We discuss the adaptation process of book to screen and Sera gives us the inside scoop on how it all works. (03:30) ** Let’s talk about complicated Love, Love Quinn that is. Our heroine will do anything it takes for the people she loves, even if what it takes is murder. Sera reveals how making a character do such extreme, morally reprehensible things actually provides the freedom to explore her full self in an honest and real way. (05:00)  ** When Joe finds out that Love is like him, he freaks out. It takes him some time and convincing to accept things in her that he does himself -- and that ingrained instinct for double standard is something we spend a lot of time picking apart on this podcast so we loved hearing Sera’s perspective on this! (07:21) ** We are always talking about being seen with a capital S and Joe and Love at times really SEE each other, but also see a fantasy. We had to ask Sera whether these two are a match made in heaven or a complete ticking time bomb? Maybe it’s both? And that whole being seen thing...well, let’s just say we’re on the same page as Sera on this one (hint: it’s complicated)! (09:25) ** Both Love and Joe learned how to love in Season Two, really love. But neither of them know how to trust. Season 3 has them trying, how successful are they? (13:17) ** Sera is a master of creating shows that subvert genres, while also staying true to the core parts that matter. We loved hearing how she does that and after talking to her maybe we need to add some more horror movies to our watch list. (15:04) ** Love is pregnant and baby Henry arrives for Season Three so we confirmed that mommy issues are coming our way...yes please! (17:36) ** Season Three is taking Joe and Love to the ‘burbs and Sera explains the built in tension the setting provides, just as much as LA did for Season Two and NYC for Season One. (20:47) ** Kate and Sera discuss their mutual connection with unicorns (yes you read that right). (25:36) ** Not to be left out, Carinn and Sera talk witches and of course astrology. (29:32) ** Sera is a generous writer who consistently shares her advice with aspiring writers. We loved hearing her explain why that is so important to her to do that and to normalize rejection. (32:44) **  Sera shares what she’s loving right now, what provides her inspiration, and how the pandemic is going to seep into content in all genres. (38:49) ** We just had to return to astrology and Sera reveals the question she could ask of anyone who works with her. (40:46) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Please do us a favor and rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! (if we're not five stars to you, skip it) Follow @popfictionwomen on Instagram. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @ carinn-jade. Thank you and enjoy the show!! MAJOR SPOILERS as Kate and Carinn discuss I May Destroy You Episodes 1 & 2, the brain child of Libra creator, Michaela Coel. *** We were stunned and surprised by the brilliance of Michaela Coel and the originality of I May Destroy You so naturally we had to discuss comparisons to Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Fleabag. Both shows remind us that “Art should disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed.” (3:15) *** Carinn & Kate agree that the story is so relatable and that as viewers we felt that Arabella’s story could be anyone’s story. (7:35) *** Episode One sets up Arabella’s life, her career, her ride or die friends, and that boyfriend in Italy. Speaking of which, do we like him? (11:20) *** Faced with a looming deadline for her second book, Arabella plans to pull an all-nighter, which Carinn totally relates to, but makes Kate totally nervous. (14:30) *** Simon & Kat are meeting their threesome candidate, Allisa, but something isn’t right here -- proving Carinn & Kate’s point that all relationships have drama.(16:54) *** Arabella heads out on the town to party with Simon, who is secretly hooking up with Allisa behind Kat’s back, and the night turns from the high of partying, doing shots, and dancing to the low of Arabella stumbling, falling and leaving the bar in a haze. (23:18) *** Just when we thought Arabella had pulled herself together back at the office and finished her manuscript, we realize something is painfully wrong with her and it’s more than just a cut on her forehead. (27:14) *** Things get wild from there as Arabella wanders home, touches the doorknob and has a vision that will change her life. She may not be ready to accept it, but we all realize in that moment that she was sexually assaulted the night before. (28:59)  *** Episode Two starts with Arabella and Terry talking about the night before, and while Terry is being a bit judgmental, it is also clear that she is also a good friend. Terry plays Watson to Arabella’s Sherlock and the two try to piece together more clues from the night’s events. (31:38)  *** Meanwhile Terry has an audition for a beauty brand commercial. The entire scene is painful to watch and is another example of an original, nuanced and complicated exploration of race, consent and privilege. (36:33)   *** Arabella goes to Simon’s apartment hoping for answers and leaves with an Uber-receipt trail taking her straight to Allisa’s door. The conversation goes off the rails, but Arabella confirms the painful truth that her drink was “spiked.” (39:41)   *** The entire scene at the police station is a real stand out -- watching Arabella go from denial to devastation as the realization of what has happened to her sinks in. The rape kit scene hits Carinn & Kate in different ways, further proving the nuanced nature of the writing. (41:35) *** The end has us wondering what happened to Terry on her trip to Italy with Arabella and discussing the bigger question of who is responsible for who. Also, what DOES the title of this series mean anyway? (50:44) *** We deep dive into Michaela Coel and Carinn wonders why all the truly brilliant female creators we love aren’t on social media. And of course we checked her astrological sign! (56:45) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We've launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @ carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fleishman Is In Trouble Recap Ep 5: This Is Our Fight Song. We were sobbing, how about you? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode, we have a lot to catch up on! With the release of Taylor Swift’s version of 1989 we’re wondering why no one ships Taylor Swift and Harry Styles? We covered Fingernails recently, a movie now streaming on AppleTV, and we still can’t stop thinking about what it means to say love is a choice. Carinn is celebrating and sharing the small, but amazing, moments of her publishing journey with us (blurbs from her fellow authors and idols, oh my!). We are also reading of course! Mentioned in this episode: Nightwatching by Tracy Sierra A Novel Obsession by Caitlin Barasch I'm Not Done With You Yet by Jesse Q Sutanto Expiration Dates by Rebecca Serle Love, Me by Jessica Saunders Please do us a favor and rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! (if we're not five stars to you, skip it) Follow @popfictionwomen on Instagram. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our fourth and final installment of our read-along recaps covers pages 247 through the end of Beautiful World, Where Are You. We’re so sad to say goodbye to our Sally Sundays and the conversations her novel prompts for us!  ** We’ve both turned the corner on Simon & Eileen. We start with Lola’s wedding, in what Kate declares as her favorite chapter in the entire novel. It reads like a cinematic montage of the deep history of these two friends and lovers and provides clues to the dynamics of their relationship that will play out through-out the rest of the novel. (03:09) ** Our four main characters come together and we’re a bit torn on how we feel about the change in structure. We learn why Eileen has been protecting herself and why - Kate totally relates whereas Carinn channels Simon and Alice in her interpretation. (14:48) ** Eileen & Simon finally come together and have the communication we’ve been craving. It has us thinking big thoughts about how people love and how that looks different for each of them. Kate brings in astrology, declaring that Simon’s Venus in Pisces -- stay tuned for what that means! (25:52) ** Carinn relates strongly to Simon and gets on the couch to discuss how she loves and connects. She makes room for Kate on there too because the way she connects is so very different. We debate the question: how do we remain true to ourselves but also be open for growth? (34:00) ** Felix stirs the pot a lot in these pages, pushing the others and sharing astute observations. He and Alice are a dramatic, fiery pair, but we love the way they come together. (47:25) ** We discuss our views on the happy but ambiguous ending. (53:10) ** What She Said. We can’t finish our recaps without deep diving into first person quotes from Sally herself. She gives us a gem about unlikeable characters that we will hold onto forever! (61:03) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladybird & Greta Gerwig *** Complicated Woman Rating - Lady Bird. Ladybird is a perfectly imperfect depiction of a young woman coming of age: complicated, unique, excitable, impossible to control, dramatic, angsty and totally relatable. (1:47) *** Complicated Woman Rating - Marion. Lady Bird’s mother has a tough exterior, a biting wit, and the weight of her family’s struggles on her shoulders. She has a softer side for everyone it seems but Lady Bird. Kate thinks the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree for Lady Bird and Marion, but Carinn thinks the two are different at their core.  (5:45) *** Scenes - We both love any scene with Lady Bird and her mother, but the opening one is a real standout and tells the viewer everything you need to know about these women and their complex relationship (11:38); Carinn highlights the scenes showing good heart pounding intimacy between first kiss and sex, reminding us that this is a coming of age story for sure, but it is also a journey through Lady Bird’s sexuality (and praise for the forgotten art of dry humping!) (15:58); Kate brings us back to the mother-daughter drama and discusses the painful, yet so relatable, prom dress shopping scene between Lady Bird and Marion, which leads both Kate and Carinn to get personal and talk about their own mothers (21:55); Carinn brings it home with a look at the final scene when Ladybird leaves for college, returns to her given name -- Christine -- and realizes that paying attention is the most generous form of love. She has truly come of age and grown. (28:05) *** What’s your damage, Heather? Carinn finds it hard to discuss Ladybird’s damage because it hits too close to home for her. Kate makes her feel better when she tells her she doesn’t think Ladybird is damaged at all, just a young woman trying to escape, longing for something more and trying to fit in. Basically teenage Carinn is Lady Bird and teenage Kate is teenage Greta Gerwig. (34:35) *** What She Said. Carinn admires the paradoxical nature of Greta Gerwig and her refusal to be put in a box when it comes to her filmmaking. Only Greta could have us talking about period piece movies, Barbies and a link to Sally Rooney! But it’s Greta’s take on deviations from the path that really hits home.  Kate’s quote reminds us of why we need more female writers and directors interested in telling complicated and nuanced womens’ stories. Of course we manage to discuss astrology too and how Gerwig, a fellow fire sign, had her birth chart compared to that of her literary hero, Louisa May Alcott. (41:33) *** Crystal Ball. For the future, Kate envisions a sad, yet poignant, Terms of Endearment inspired mother-daughter story, where Ladybird is fighting for her mother instead of with her. Carinn hits it out of the park, as usual, essentially writing an Oscar-worthy version of LadyBird Part 2, tentatively titled “Christine.” Greta should seriously contact Carinn to develop this script unless we write it first!  (51:40) *** Takeaways. Greta Gerwig says she wrote this movie as a love letter to her hometown of Sacramento. Kate, who lives in her hometown, gets personal and discusses how no matter where you go, where you grow up is always a part of you. Carinn brings it back to Dave Matthews Band and reminds us that you gotta love what you love. (65:40) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NO FUTURE EPISODE SPOILERS. We recap as we watch. The Queen's Gambit Episode 2-4 Recap, Her Mother's Arc Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We debate whether this is a great love story album, discuss the short films she's released, we vilify and defend Jake G, we give TSwift credit for her boss lady movies, and of course we talk astrology. But first, we fan girl over TSwift's lyrics.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome Nina Simon to discuss her debut novel, Mother-Daughter Murder Night, a family drama involving three generations of women and a murder mystery. Think: Gilmore Girls, but with murder. Our conversation with Nina was like a therapy session for us (massive compliment). We discussed so many deep questions: what does it mean to be a strong woman? Are there different ways to be strong? Can interdependence and care be seen as strength? Can an imperfect family be a source of love and hope? What does it look like when you have a group of women who are alphas and how can they negotiate how to work together (helloo team sports)? How do you build a new professional identity and shed an old one? This book has such a personal inspiration behind it, providing a comforting escape for Nina and her mother who was diagnosed with cancer, and it will be a joy to all of you! Nina had “the audacity to create something out of nothing” and we all get to reap the rewards. Mother-Daughter Murder Night is out now! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat with Nina wherever you get your podcasts! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ve got your recap of episode one of the new Hulu series, Tell Me Lies, and it comes out of the gate HOT. Based on the novel by Carola Lovering, and adapted for television of Meaghan Oppenheimer, Tell Me Lies follows a tumultuous but intoxicating relationship as it unfolds over the course of 8 years, from college to young adulthood. Episode one has Carinn peering with one eye open at her younger self, looking back on toxic relationships, while Kate wonders if maybe she just kept her emotions so far in check that she didn’t even realize what was happening inside herself. The heat and connection between Lucy Albright (Grace Van Patten) and Stephen DeMarco (Jackson White) is palpable and we can’t wait to see the nuanced portrayal of obsession, passion and addictive love play out as the series continues because, as the show’s tagline reminds us, “You never forget your worst.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we chat with Megan Miranda about her new novel, The Last To Vanish. * After Megan shares a little bit about The Last To Vanish, we discuss her intriguing protagonist Abby and her relationship with Cutter’s Pass, how she fits in, and how she holds the keys to unravel its secrets. (04:14) * We discuss Cory and Celeste, and discuss Megan’s love for creating antagonists. Relationships are key! (07:38) * Megan shares her journey from YA author to adult fiction. (14:09) * Megan has had successes that every aspiring writer dreams of, but she shares that it’s not all roses and rainbows. (17:42) * Megan’s books are a master class in how to write setting. The Last To Vanish is no exception. We discuss why place matters so much to her. (23:52) * Megan's core theme in her writing is: the past always returns. Hear more about what that means to us. (28:04) * We learn how Megan reconciles her science, biotech background with her creative passions. (31:10) * The duality in Megan shines through so clearly that we of course guess that she is a Gemini! (33:09) * Megan shares what she is loving right now. Hint: it's a show we've been fawning over for months. (36:04) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In our new series, Debut Discussions, we're asking debut authors to tell us their story -- not only the story in the novel they wrote -- but the journey they took to hold that book in their hands. On today's episode we're chatting with Anna Bliss about her debut novel, Bonfire Night, a gripping and emotional WWII novel of star-crossed lovers.  We chat with Anna about her early love of reading, writing in the historical romance genre, the inciting incident in her writing journey, and her path to publication, from writing retreats to landing an agent.  Listen now to Anna's story wherever you get your podcasts. And Bonfire Night is out now - buy it, read it, and share it! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We come out hot, talking about what made us cover this Netflix phenomenon, what this show did to us, how it divided us, and the one thing we can both agree on: Rege-Jean Page stole the show as Simon, The Duke of Hastings! ** Complicated Woman - Daphne Bridgerton. While we see Daphne’s inner conflict in the first few episodes, the limited circumstances of her time, and her ambition in trying to steer her marriage, ultimately we ask whether she is complicated in ways that are harmful for the innovation of women characters. (07:38) ** Complicated Supporting Women. Bridgerton presents a group of women who demonstrate that there is no one correct way to be a strong female character, but did they do enough with these supporting women? We examine Lady Danbury, the Queen, Eloise Bridgerton, Penelope Featherington, Lady Whistledown and Siena. (14:25) ** Favorite Scenes. It’s no surprise that many of our scenes involve the Duke...Simon’s backstory (23:45), that infamous and sexy spoon scene that has Twitter buzzing as much as Connell’s necklace in Normal People (27:04), and the Duke’s big speech to the Queen about his friendship and love for Daphne (28:37). We then turn up the heat and discuss that “I burn for you” scene between Simon and Daphne on their honeymoon that has inspired TikTok musicals (32:53), Siena generating her own heat on stage and with Anthony (35:05), and Daphne’s big speech to the Duke in the finale has one of us swooning and the other one rolling their eyes (41:04).  ** Controversial Scenes. Bridgerton is not without controversy. We discuss the sex scene that raises serious issues of consent and the scene where Lady Danbury explains how race was intentionally worked into this, but was it enough? (46:05)  ** What’s Your Damage, Heather? Phoebe Waller-Bridge set the standard for damage and Bridgerton left us wanting more vulnerability from Daphne. (56:44) ** What She Said - Julia Quinn. An Ivy League educated, incredibly prolific Capricorn, Julia Quinn has written 18 consecutive NYT bestsellers and we’re inspired by the moment she is having right now! Kate discusses Julia’s real life romantic marriage and Carinn shares a quote about how far the conversations around women, consent and power have come in the twenty years since she wrote the first book in the Bridgerton series. (57:40) ** Who Won The Show? We both are all about the look and sound of this visually stunning show! (64:29) ** Takeaways. Kate’s takeaway is that Shonda Rhimes is a genius for knowing what sells, for knowing what will be a hit, and in this particular case, for knowing that love and romance sell. Carinn faces her obsession with Daphne and realizes that no character has provoked such a reaction in her since Amy Dunne from Gone Girl. Their discussion explores the concepts of heroes and villains, true love and being trapped, and turns them upside down. MAJOR SPOILERS for Gone Girl. (66:30) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NO SPOILERS as we give our take on the complicated women of UTOPIA: characters Samantha, Becky, and Jessica, along with executive producer Jessica Rhoades and creator Gillian Flynn. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome the brilliant creator of our favorite psycho, Joe Goldberg. This installment of 'you' finds Joe at Harvard as a serious writing student. Will he write his Great American Novel, or will he be distracted? Read YOU AND ONLY YOU to find out! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's something between Daisy and Billy that is undeniable. But is it love? We deeply, sometimes inarticulately (there were a lot of hand gestures you can't see), break it down. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time for another Sidebar conversation – a cheeky reference to the fact that we’re both lawyers and love to have conversations incidental to our main topics and episodes – where we let you in on our lives and what we’re obsessing over in pop culture. In today’s episode, Kate’s high school reunion weekend leads to a discussion of being seen vs bearing witness and extroverts vs introverts; what interviews with Karin Slaughter and Laura Dave taught us about late-career breakthroughs; Maren Morris’ newly released EP following her divorce and, yes, that OTHER divorce news (could this really be our last Sidebar discussing Bennifer 2.0 and what went wrong!?). All Rise! The PFW Sidebar is now in session! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The wait is over and it does not disappoint.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Please do us a favor and rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! (if we're not five stars to you, skip it) Follow @popfictionwomen on Instagram. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time for another Sidebar conversation – a cheeky reference to the fact that we’re both lawyers and love to have conversations incidental to our main topics and episodes – where we let you in on our lives and what we’re obsessing over in pop culture. In today’s episode - the last one of Leo season for Kate and the last one from LA for Carinn - we discuss live events (music and authors!), what makes us liars, summer bucket lists, movies and TV, former President Obama’s summer reading and playlist, and finally, the current state of reality TV shows. Listen to hear Carinn lament the offerings this summer and please watch Kate’s (always) clueless, yet intrigued, facial expressions in response!  The PFW Sidebar is now in session! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The golden weekend of drama on TV, books about ambivalent mothers and dangerous children, and astrology.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re back with our Friday Preview of what we’re reading, watching, and listening to this weekend. We discuss Selena Gomez’s documentary, My Mind & Me; the announcement of Ashley Audrain’s new book, The Whispers; Kennedy Ryan’s soon to be released novel, Before I Let Go, that had Kate up past her bedtime; Julia’s Whelan’s first novel, My Oxford Year; Carinn’s obsession with the the song “Mastermind” from Taylor Swift’s album Midnights, and our feelings on marathon runners! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we are doubly thrilled to welcome sisters Tembi and Attica Locke about their new Netflix series, From Scratch, which is based on Tembi’s New York Times bestselling memoir of the same name. We didn’t think our hearts could be any more full after watching this beautiful, epic story of love and loss, but discussing it with Tembi and Attica brought us to even higher emotional highs!  We chatted with them about how adapting it for the screen made for a deeper exploration of motherhood and mothering in all its complicated glory; how Tembi bearing witness to her grief allows others to be seen, but also translates the full embodiment of grief for those who haven’t walked that path yet; the realistic and mature depiction of love and partnership in the series, going well beyond the “meet and cute” and giving us the sticky middle of a relationship; how Attica’s intuition guided her choices for the writers room and the collective sisterhood that brought this book to the screen; what a “from scratch” moment can look like in all of our lives; and the ways Tembi and Attica’s astrological signs make them the perfect team! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Complicated Conversations we chat with Liz Moore, the author of the New York Times bestselling novel Long Bright River, which was a Good Morning America Book Club pick and one of Barack Obama’s favorite books of 2020. Her beautiful and complex new novel, The God Of The Woods, follows a wealthy American family who build an estate in the Adirondack Mountains. Their daughter, Barbara, goes missing from the summer camp they built, and the mystery of her disappearance is intertwined with the disappearance of their son years earlier.  We chat with Liz about the ambitious structure of the novel, which is told from multiple perspectives and written in dual timelines; her exploration of the themes of self-reliance, power dynamics, gender, class, and duality in the novel; the use of words with multiple meanings; the interconnectedness of characters and the power of belief; her process of finding the title; and, of course, her very fitting astrological sign.   The God Of The Woods is out now and you should believe all the hype! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Coffee and perfectionism. We discuss The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler; Georgie, All Along by Kate Clayborn; and the Daisy Jones & The Six trailer. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re stopping at the midpoint to assess what is happening here and how a show about road rage is really an investigation into how to live life, motherhood, higher powers, the binds of family, career, vulnerability, and so much more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome award-winning novelist, Rebecca Makkai. Her fifth novel, I Have Some Questions For You, is out now. "A successful film professor and podcaster, Bodie Kane is content to forget her past—the family tragedy that marred her adolescence, her four largely miserable years at a New Hampshire boarding school, and the murder of her former roommate, Thalia Keith, in the spring of their senior year. Though the circumstances surrounding Thalia’s death and the conviction of the school’s athletic trainer, Omar Evans, are hotly debated online, Bodie prefers—needs—to let sleeping dogs lie. But when the Granby School invites her back to teach a course, Bodie is inexorably drawn to the case and its increasingly apparent flaws. In their rush to convict Omar, did the school and the police overlook other suspects? Is the real killer still out there? As she falls down the very rabbit hole she was so determined to avoid, Bodie begins to wonder if she wasn’t as much of an outsider at Granby as she’d thought—if, perhaps, back in 1995, she knew something that might have held the key to solving the case. Timely, hypnotic, and populated with a cast of unforgettable characters, I Have Some Questions for You is at once a compulsive page-turner and a literary triumph." Listen to our spoiler-free episode while you wait for your copy today! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yellowjackets Season 1, Episodes 6-8 recap: we have so many questions. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we are joined by Dr. LaToya Watkins. Her debut novel, PERISH, is a sprawling story about a Black Texan family that explores the effects of inherited trauma and intergenerational violence as the family comes together to say goodbye to their matriarch on her deathbed. We chat with LaToya about the pivotal opening scene of the novel and how it sets the tone for the rest of the story as well as the development of Helen Jean, the complicated matriarch; what lessons LaToya learned creating all of these strong, complex female characters; the strong sense of place and setting and how LaToya found that it is the women who carry on the stories of generations; how the antidote to intergenerational shame and silence is truth; and what healing looks like in all its complexity.  We got very emotional on this one, but we learned so much: “truth is beautiful” and loving “people where they are” just might be the answer.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The fourth and final part of our series about how to pivot from lawyering to writing is out now and we’re once again joined by New York Times bestselling author, Christie Tate! In this episode we dive deep into the existential crisis of identity. We discuss the progression of how you self-identify and how much of it is tied up in societal expectations. When do you call yourself a “writer”? And how do you transition from a career in the law with a clear track and objective metrics to a career in writing, which is rife with uncertainty? So many questions!   Listen now to our new installment! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome New York Times bestselling author, Emiko Jean, to discuss her debut adult thriller, The Return of Ellie Black. The novel follows Chelsey Calhoun, a Japanese American police detective, as she investigates the mysterious reappearance of Ellie Black, a missing teenager. We chat with Emiko about the ways this novel delves into the experiences of women in a world with violent men, the complexities of mother-daughter relationships, the impact of trauma on individuals and families, and the societal expectations placed on girls and women. She also shares insights into her writing process, why she moves between genres, and how her astrological sign clearly suits her! The Return of Ellie Black is out now! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler free chat wherever you get your podcasts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Succession Recap Season 4, Ep 2-3: How We React In Shock See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome #1 New York Times bestselling author Nita Prose to discuss The Mystery Guest, her follow-up to The Maid, which sold over one million copies worldwide! Molly Gray is back again in The Mystery Guest and we chat with Nita about where we find Molly now and how the structure of the novel allows us to learn about Molly’s past and get a deeper understanding of who she is in the present. We also talk about the personal inspiration for Molly’s beloved Gran and her words of wisdom and the way Carinn personally benefited from Nita’s wisdom on her publishing journey. The Mystery Guest is out now! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In our new series, Debut Discussions, we're asking debut authors to tell us their story -- not only the story in the novel they wrote -- but the journey they took to hold that book in their hands. On today's episode we welcome Sophie Wan to discuss her debut, Women of Good Fortune, a story about three women, one daring plan, and a wedding heist to remember. In this conversation, Sophie shares her journey as a reader and writer, and how she came up with the idea for the book. Set against a high-society Shanghai wedding, the novel follows three women, Lulu, Rena, and Jane, as they plan a heist on Lulu's own wedding. Sophie chats with us about each of these women, their unique struggles and desires, and why she wanted to explore themes of friendship, identity, and societal expectations. We also discuss her path to becoming a published author - one that involves perseverance while also pursuing other careers and interests. Ultimately, Sophie knows she is debuting with the right book at the right time for her and we love that!  Listen now to @thesophiewan’s story wherever you get your podcasts. Women of Good Fortune is out now -- buy it, read it, and share it (in other words, make a debut author’s dreams come true!) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In our series Debut Discussions, we're asking debut authors to tell us their story -- not only the story in the novel they wrote -- but the journey they took to hold that book in their hands. On today's episode we welcome Sarah-Jane Collins to discuss her debut, Radiant Heat, a slow-burn, atmospheric story about a catastrophic wildfire and the mysterious connection between two apparent strangers. Sarah-Jane shares her early reading habits and the strong influence of her family's love for books; the inspiration behind Radiant Heat and the themes she wanted to explore; how being a journalist informed the story; her decision to pursue writing and enroll in an MFA program; the process of finding an agent; and the incredibly permanent way Sarah-Jane embraced astrology! We were impressed! Listen now to Sarah-Jane Collins’ story wherever you get your podcasts. Radiant Heat is out now -- buy it, read it, and share it (in other words, make a debut author’s dreams come true!). See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Debut Discussions we’re chatting with Jaclyn Westlake about her debut novel, Dear Dotty, which follows the chaotic year in the life of Rosie Benson, a 24-year-old whose life unravels after the sudden passing of her free-spirited great aunt, Dotty. In a bid to feel close to Dotty again, Rosie reaches out to all of Dotty’s contacts via email and starts learning about her life through the eyes of her many friends, while also finding out who she really wants to be herself.  Jaclyn chats with us about Rosie’s journey of self-discovery, sibling dynamics, the writing process, finding an agent, the career advice she gave to herself, and a preview of book two! Listen now to Jaclyn’s story wherever you get your podcasts. Dear Dotty is out now -- buy it, read it, and share it (in other words, make a debut author’s dreams come true!). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re back with a sidebar -- this time we’re talking about another female singer and songwriter -- the one and only, ADELE. While sidebars are billed as conversations incidental to our main content of books, movies and TV shows, Adele’s 30 reminds us that these sidebars are really all part of the same ongoing conversation and exploration of the same themes we love to delve into on our regular episodes! ** Divorce, Baby. Adele has dubbed this her divorce album and we start by discussing how happy we are that Adele and other women are expanding the conversation around these very relatable experiences. (02:49) ** The Shuffle Controversy. Adele asked Spotify to turn off the shuffle feature and, of course, Carinn and I have different approaches on how to listen to an album. (07:07) ** What’s Your Damage, Adele? You can’t talk about this album without discussing the greater context of Adele’s damage and what was happening to her personally. (13:40) ** Songs. We dive into the tracks that we love the most and discuss which ones we find relatable and why. (29:48) ** Gateway To The Cosmos. All hail the new captain of our astrology ship -- Adele. We chat about Adele’s very public discussion of her Saturn’s Return, the tumult and the transformation that comes with that, and how much the stars have factored into this rebirth of Adele. (50:26) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Behind the scenes at PFW, we're gushing about RHOBH, The White Lotus, Two Nights In Lisbon, Physical with Rose Byrne, Part of Your World, and Poster Girl. NO SPOILERS. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luckiest Girl Alive, The Perfect Find, Southern Charm reunion, Good Inside by Dr. Becky, We Can Do Hard Things discuss HELP. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Little Fires Everywhere & Celeste Ng: Complicated Dueling Matriarchs **The Matriarchs — Mrs. Richardson and Mia Warren — could not be more opposite, one lives by her rules and regulations and the other is a free spirited artist living a nomadic life. (Starts at :40).  **Carinn relates to both of them and how they made her analyze the difference between power and control while Kate admits (sadly) she relates to Mrs. Richardson’s need to for order. (9:38)  **Are they complicated? Kate is frustrated by the lack of inner conflict and growth, but Carinn sees small changes and reflections that are significant given Mrs. Richardson's starting point. In the end, Kate did not feel either matriarch was that complicated but Carinn is focused on all the conflict and change in the story as a whole, something bigger than these two women. (17:07) **The Adoption Mess— the matriarchs, along with the entire town, takes sides between Bebe Chow and Mrs. McCullough. We weigh in on where we think the baby belongs. (34:25) **Scenes: Mia and Izzy’s connection ignites (45:17); Pearl falls under the spell of the Richardson’s and Kate and Carinn get heated over Pearl and her relationships with Tripp and Moody (49:25) **Mrs. Richardson calls out Mia Warren and Mia comes back swinging—we can’t wait to see Reese Witherspoon and Kerry Washington bring this to life in the TV adaptation (58:18) **The ending leaves Kate wanting more, but Carinn feels like it perfectly suits the story (1:04:48) **What She Said (1:10:44). Carinn is an enormous fan of Celeste Ng and shares the fascinating backstory of her connection with fire. (1:13:20) Kate loves her 2008 essay in defense of fiction. (1:16:40)  **Crystal Ball. Carinn went with more drama while Kate wanted a love story. Kate envisions Mia finding Joseph Ryan (Pearl's biological father) and falling in love with. Carinn had Pearl finding her father, realizing the life she could have had and turning against her mother. (1:22:27) **Takeaways. Kate takes away how important it is when writing for characters to experience deeply and to grow in such a way that readers can feel that too. Carinn’s takeaway retells a story about Celeste's father, his job and explosions. (1:27:48) Stay Complicated! Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We never thought we’d cover poetry on this podcast, but poetry is really having a moment! Amanda Gorman stole the inauguration spotlight then made history as the first poet at the Super Bowl. And Instapoets Kate Baer and Rupi Kaur have been garnering millions of followers on social media and breaking records on the New York Times bestseller lists for years. We may be late to the party, but we’re so glad we came! ** Poems. We pick some of our favorite poems and discuss how they spoke to us. These poems have us talking about what it means to be a complicated woman, the double standard women face, the inherent conflict in motherhood (Note: the poem entitled 'first' is by Nayyirah Waheed and in her collection, Salt), and fate vs free will. (09:18) ** What’s You’re Theme (Damage), Heather? The poems in these books all expose the damage and vulnerability of being a woman. What kinds of poems are we each drawn to? The answers tell us a lot about our own damage. Patterns certainly emerged! Kate discusses poems that touch on body image, love and self-love. Carinn discusses how motherhood and parenting changed her and brought her back into her body, the mind-body connection, and feeling in extremes. (24:11) ** What She Said: Kate Baer & Rupi Kaur. We deep dive into first person quotes from Kate and Rupi that inspire us. We remember what we love about poetry listening to Kate and marvel at how Rupi sits at the intersection of craft and business. Serious goals! (46:46) ** Crystal Ball. In our most ambitious crystal balls to date, we each take a poem and imagine the story of the woman behind the words. Who is she? Where will she be? We let poetry inspire us to write our own stories! You don’t want to miss these. (56:41) ** Takeaways. The big takeaway here is how two people who thought they had no real connection to poetry can totally admit when they are wrong. Kate also concedes that she may have duped Carinn, realizing that she forgot about not just how she used to write poetry, but how much she studied it in college as well. It’s all coming back to her now! Regardless, they are both now hooked! (76:37) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we are thrilled to chat with Carola Lovering, bestselling author of the novels Tell Me Lies and Too Good to Be True, about her new novel, Can’t Look Away, a story of young love, second chances, and the choices we make. ** After Carola gives us the overview of her romantic suspense novel, we discuss her protagonist Molly who is caught between two phases of her life.  Carola shares the personal inspiration for this character and the challenges she faced writing her in the third person. (06:15)  ** There’s another complicated woman in this book, the darker voice of Sabrina, Molly’s new friend. Listen to hear what Joe Goldberg from You has to do with this creepy character! (10:36) ** Can’t Look Away explores some of Kate’s favorite things – the theme of the one that got away and dreamy singer-songwriters! (13:33)  ** The novel also explores one of Carinn’s favorite themes – the complicated nature of mother-daughter relationships. (19:58) ** We discuss an article Carola wrote for Marie Claire in which she shares what she has learned (the hard way) about ambition and juggling the demands of writing and being a mother. We get personal and discuss our struggles with learning to say no, prioritizing and delegating. (26:05) ** Carola shares how writing and revising while pregnant or parenting small children has evolved and changed from her single writer days, but how the themes in her writing have stayed the same.  (33:18) ** We get the scoop on her adaptation of Tell Me Lies. (39:47) ** We talk astrology and Carola shares that she fully identifies as a Cancer. (44:44) ** Carola tells us what she’s loving and - shocker - we have the same taste. (50:15) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are OBSESSED with this show. Please listen even if you haven't watched -- spoiler, they go on a second date. *** We are so IN love with Foodie Love. Whether you like subtitles or not it won’t matter, this series is so visually stunning and the beauty of the language, the food porn, and the chemistry between the two leads will draw you in. It makes us think of Normal People, where almost nothing happens, but everything happens. (01:35) *** In Episode One, the two leads meet for coffee after connecting on the app, Foodie Love. We immediately get to see their different expectations going into the first date, learn about each of them, and find that in this show food is a metaphor for life and love. Carinn and Kate already know who they relate to more! (06:15) *** They go for coffee and the original and fresh format of the show -- talking into the camera, comment bubbles, cartoons -- help us to know what they're really thinking. We learn that she is hiding a past and just how crazy she is (aren't we all?), while he declares himself a magnet for unstable women. (13:18)  *** The date proceeds to a second cup, and in a great moment of gender reversal, she checks out his ass and makes him paranoid that maybe she ditched him midway through the date. His insecurities creep in and we realize both these people have been burned before. (17:54) *** Despite all this, it is a truly exceptional first date, filled with real conversation and moments of connection. We see his romantic side when he ponders the relationship between the barista and the waitress, but he gets there only with her pushing. Of course this has us talking about being SEEN with a capital S and what that really means. (21:48) *** Why don’t we know the main characters' names and will we ever learn them? We embark on a mini “what she said” tangent about creator and director Isabel Coixet, a superstar in Spain, on why she couldn’t name the characters, whether there will be more seasons, and how she is our first Aries creator! (28:28) *** Episode Two, “Breakfast in Kentucky”, is a real standout. The supporting characters shine as much as the two main characters. The bar owner and the married woman at the bar have their own arcs and bring such complexity and depth to the episode. (31:27) *** We return to our two leads who meet for a drink at the bar. He is there early, savoring the moments of expectation, getting wasted. Kate relates to him, Carinn of course relates to her. They get to know each other more and we get to witness effortless banter and phenomenal dialogue. (42:30) *** How do you feel about gin & tonics? Our favorite bartender tells us they bring lucidity, but Kate thinks they bring anger, at least to everyone she knows who imbibes them. Carinn has her own history with the cocktail to share! He ends up puking, which somehow stirs tender feelings in her. We can’t wait to see where the two take it from here! (50:25)  Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Debut Discussions, we’re chatting with Jessie Rosen about her debut novel, The Heirloom, a story about a woman who lives by the rule that you should never ever accept a marriage proposal that comes with an heirloom ring. When her boyfriend proposes with one she sets out on a globe-trotting mission to ensure the ring contains forever energy. Jessie shares her the personal inspiration behind the main character Shay's superstition about vintage engagement rings; the significance of the locations featured in the book, including Italy, Portugal, Boston, New York, and LA; and why she wanted to explore the themes of grief, personal growth, superstition, and the limitations of control. The conversation also includes a sneak peak of Jessie’s next novel, which deals with astrology and we obviously cannot wait for that one! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can you stop a murder after it's already happened? That is the question we explore on this episode of Complicated Conversations. We are joined by Gillian McAllister to discuss the premise of her seventh novel, Wrong Place Wrong Time. * After we gush about how much we loved this book, we discuss Jen, the lawyer, wife, mother, who must save her son from the unthinkable. (03:15) * This book is undoubtedly a page-turning thriller, but it has so much heart. We had to know how Gillian managed to nail the emotional truths of motherhood so well. (05:52) * We ask Gillian about the “big swing” she took with this novel by delving into time loops and the supernatural. We loved hearing about how her belief in this story from the start was unwavering and what Russian Doll has to do with it! (11:22) * On a deeper level, this book explores fate vs free will. It's not a spoiler to say that there are things that can be changed by going back in time, but there are some things that cannot, things that are meant to be one way or another. (17:05) * Gillian, Kate and Carinn are ALL lawyers so of course we had to ask about how she reconciles these parts of herself and when she decided to make the leap to full time author based on a question from a friend. (19:26) * Gillian’s career is marked by success after success, but it wasn’t always easy. (25:14) * We talk about The Honest Author’s podcast, which Gillian co-hosts with a fellow author. (27:58) * We of course discuss astrology and then we get into tarot cards and the fascinating way that Gillian uses them. She has us ready to try! (30:11) * Gillian shares what she is loving right now. (33:49) Pick up this mind-bending, heart-stopping, tear-jerking novel today! WRONG PLACE WRONG TIME by Gillian McAllister. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen or Twitter @pop_women For a deep dive go to www.popfictionwomen.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

'Life & Beth' Recap Episodes 1 and 2: Amy Schumer Impresses See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are so excited to be chatting (again) with Erica Katz to discuss her second novel, FAKE. ** Complicated Woman: Emma. Erica tells us about her development of Emma, a woman with a secret and a past she'd like to forget who is struggling to figure out life in the art world. (03:27) ** Erica shares how a passage from Fake that we love –  “Life is complicated. That’s why we have art. To help us make sense of it” – was actually written following our prior conversation with her! We died upon hearing that. (05:19) ** As lawyers we were familiar with the BigLaw setting of The Boys Club, but we were fascinated by the art world and what research Erica did to make us feel immersed in it for Fake. (08:28) ** Fake may not be set in a law firm, but it is still structured around deposition transcript excerpts. Erica explains why this is one aspect of her writing that is here to stay. (12:10) ** “Emma Caan is a fake.” We discuss this line from the novel, but more generally the exploration of perception vs reality. (14:12) ** In her acknowledgements for Fake, Erica wrote: "To everybody who reached out to say they saw bits of their own lives in The Boys’ Club—I wrote this for you." We loved hearing what Erica meant by this — doubters, listen up! (18:47) ** Writing a sophomore novel isn’t easy! Erica shares how her writing process and expectations  have changed for her second novel. (22:48) ** Erica tells us her favorite thing about writing and her favorite thing about being an author. (25:25) ** In our last interview we learned Erica is a Gemini. The company Emma works for in Fake is called Gemini. Coincidence? (30:35) ** Erica discusses the exciting news in her personal live… she recently got engaged! (32:56) ** Erica tells us what she’s loving right now in terms of books, movies and TV shows. (35:27) ** We get the scoop on book three! (39:51) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week we chat about the new batch of romcoms this weekend, Kate's very special starry plans, an emotional milestone for Carinn, and of course, the typerwriter tea wisdom showed up with a message of love. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Quick Cap #4: The Affair's Real Life Dual Narratives, Christina Tosi and PFW's first live event! The theme of this episode is “adaptation”. We’re talking about a number of news items involving novels being adapted for the big and small screen and how we personally adapted to do our first Pop Fiction Women live event (at :28) The Affair. We discuss the explosive story around conflicting accounts from show creator Sarah Treem and star Ruth Wilson about whether a toxic work environment existed on set at The Affair. The two articles (linked below) read like an episode of the show with different points of view and the complete lack of an objective truth. (at 1:30) The Woman in The Window Trailer is out. The movie looks creepy and so is A.J. Finn’s sketchy recitation of his personal past. It stars Amy Adams and Julianne Moore, who are amazing, but we’re not sure if they are enough of a draw to get us into the theatre for this one. (At 14:30) Megan Abbott’s TV adaptation of Dare Me is a bonanza of women in front of the camera and behind the scenes. Women are in total control of this story and we are so here for it. (At 18:14) Christina Tosi, the brilliant baker and founder of MilkBar, has us totally inspired, not just by her delicious creations, but more importantly by her hustle, determination and ability to adapt. She is most comfortable when she is uncomfortable and we couldn’t agree more! (At 22:08) Pop Fiction Women had our first live event! Talk about adapting, on very short notice, we hosted a screening of Love Actually at the Wing in NYC. We talked about the movie, the podcast, and most importantly, we survived our first live chat to tell you all about it (31:00) Stay Complicated! Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com LINKS: Ruth Wilson and The Hollywood Reporter Sarah Treem on Deadline Megan Abbott Wants You To Feel Everything Christina Tosi Uses Her Whole Brain https://www.christinatosi.com/ https://open.spotify.com/episode/0ih8KMhitDGfb2Pog1kOtU See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode was recorded in April of 2022 and mysteriously disappeared, only to resurface today, when Kate and Carinn really needed to hear it.  Please do us a favor and rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! (if we're not five stars to you, skip it) Follow @popfictionwomen on Instagram. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We need therapy after this interrogation. * We start by discussing our relationship with goal setting generally. Kate declares Carinn to be the captain of the varsity goal setting team. (02:24) * Kate is a totally terrified newbie at goal setting and she is starting to realize why. It’s time to get on the couch, folks. (07:43) * After our self-examination, we actually get into discussing our goals. Carinn thinks big, looking out a decade! We also assess how we’re doing on the pod. (17:56) * We each share our absolute dream guest for the podcast and how we would react if that dream actually became a reality. (39:10) * We move beyond the podcast goals and discuss our writing aspirations. Kate reminds Carinn of what her astrologer told her about her career in 2022 … what are we birthing!?? (46:40) * How do we find the time to meet these goals? (57:26) * We finish by talking about personal goals (and yes we get back on the couch). (69:00) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. For a one time contribution to support this episode, use venmo @ carinn-jade. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show!! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome six-time New York Times best selling author Denene Millner to discuss her new novel, One Blood, a sprawling multigenerational story of three women connected by adoption, secrets, love and hope.  Inspired by her own adoption story, One Blood beautifully explores the complexity of a mother’s love – whether it be the woman who carries a child, the one who gives the child away, or the one who raises and holds the child through-out life.  The novel asks what does blood mean? Do you have to carry someone’s blood in your body to be family or can family be chosen and created? We chat with Denene about these themes; about the divine power of women to give life, to heal, to see and intuit; and the ways we can not just break cycles of trauma, but build something more beautiful in its place.  There are a lot of tears in this interview – the healing kind. Denene reminds us to find moments of love and recognize those moments when they present themselves and just thinking about this book and our chat may make us cry all over again! One Blood is out now. Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat with Denene wherever you get your podcasts!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

YOU Season 4, Part 2 is out now! We chatted with Sera about Joe's journey, Season 4, Part 1, and the mystery around Love Quinn's appearance in the Part 2 trailer. Listen now before you binge! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome Lauren Nossett, author of THE RESEMBLANCE.  We chat with Lauren about how this story started with the voice of her protagonist, Marlitt; why she wanted to explore the complicated nature of the mother-daughter relationship; the polarizing nature of Greek life on university campuses and the real life examples that infused her fiction; why Lauren wanted to set this dark academia novel at a large southern university; the fascinating backstory behind the title of this book; Lauren’s path to publication and the inspiring ways she persisted; her writing process; and her dreamy, head-in-the-clouds astrological sign.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

**WARNING: Sex/Life spoilers** Stacy Rukeyser is the creator, showrunner and executive producer of Sex/Life on Netflix which in its first two weeks was in the top 10 list in 80+ countries. Prior to SexLife, Stacy was showrunner on UnReal, which received an Emmy nomination for outstanding writing in a drama series. Stacy’s previous writing credits include Without a Trace, Crash, One Tree Hill, Greek, The Lying Game, and many others. ** Stacy shares how she has consistently pushed for female-forward shows that are noisy and risky and start conversations -- just like Sex/Life did for us. (02:20) ** Billie is a complicated woman who makes choices many people won’t agree with, or gasp, may find “unlikeable.”  Stacy shared how important it was to infuse Billie with vulnerability, which in turn makes her inner conflict all the more relatable. (05:47) ** Stacy calls herself a “late bloomer” and shares how she went from being an actress, to a TV writer, and now a series creator and showrunner. (12:56) ** Sex/Life is a show about female desire and we loved hearing how Stacy tapped into an empowered female point of view to tell this erotic story and how she ensured the female gaze was utilized in the show. (21:59) ** Stacy is a champion of the “unlikeable” female protagonist and all the women in this show are complicated, flawed, humans who sometimes make bad choices but grow from them. That includes Billie, Cooper’s boss Francesca, suburban mom Trina, and one of our favorites, Sasha, Billie’s best friend. We loved hearing why Stacy is drawn to complicated female characters just like us! (29:36) ** We have to talk about THAT divisive, TV rule-breaking ending and whether Billie ultimately gets to “have it all”. Stacy reminds us that it’s ok for women to have desire -- appetite is good! (34:02) ** Stacy is a hardworking Capricorn, who’s feet are firmly planted on the ground while she always keeps dreaming. (39:02) ** Stacy teases the possibilities for Season Two of Sex/Life -- and thanks Pop Fiction Women for celebrating complicated, real women. The love and goals are mutual!! (42:43) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time for another Sidebar conversation – a cheeky reference to the fact that we’re both lawyers and love to have conversations incidental to our main topics and episodes – where we let you in on our lives and what we’re obsessing over in pop culture. In today’s episode we talk about how sometimes real life is better than Instagram, the joyful status of Kate's summer bucket list, Carinn’s obsession with Chappell Roan, and whether Jennifer Lopez is the new Elizabeth Taylor. Listen to hear how the writer’s subconscious has manifested itself as Carinn has been discussing The Astrology House in interviews! The PFW Sidebar is now in session! Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today’s episode we’re examining the Netflix adaptation of Rumaan Alam’s novel, “Leave The World Behind.” Directed by Sam Esmail and starring Julia Roberts, Ethan Hawke, Mahershala Ali and Myha’La, Leave The World Behind is an apocalyptic thriller about a seemingly idyllic family vacation on Long Island that gets interrupted by two strangers bearing news of a blackout. As the threat grows, both families must decide how best to survive the potential crisis, all while grappling with their own place in a collapsing world. The movie had us questioning what our own reactions would be in similar circumstances and how we all live every day dancing the fine line between disaster and hope.  Carinn is a super-fan of Alam’s novel so we also chat about what she loved in the original source material and the differences between the novel and the movie. Kate may have had an exciting meltdown about a scene featuring a certain 90’s hip hop song that has Julia Roberts dancing like Elaine from Seinfeld.  If you’re a fan of the book or the movie, listen now to our discussion wherever you get your podcasts. Please do us a favor and rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! (if we're not five stars to you, skip it) Follow @popfictionwomen on Instagram. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome Christie Tate. Her debut memoir, Group, published in October 2020 was a Reese’s Book Club Pick and New York Times bestseller. Her new book, B.F.F. A Memoir Of Friendship Lost and Found is out now. Listen to our chat before your copy of B.F.F. arrives! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are thrilled to be joined by #1 NY Times bestselling author, and friend of the pod, Emily Giffin. She is here for a “Sidebar” chat, which is a cheeky reference to the fact that we’re both lawyers and love to have conversations incidental to our main topics and episodes. Our tagline is: two lawyers, one topic, and a whole lot to say! We’re excited to add a third lawyer (Emily) to today’s sidebar to talk about something we’re fascinated by … celebrity author book clubs. Emily recently announced the creation of her very own, EG Bookclub! ** We start by getting the skinny on what inspired Emily to start her own bookclub. (01:01) ** Emily shares what informs her book selections, but there are no rules other than to love the story and have fun! (06:12) **We share our love of spoilers and how much we all want to talk about those twists and turns and endings …the EG BookClub let’s it all come out! (09:49) ** We ask Emily the tough question: if she was forming a bookclub made up of the fictional female characters from her novels -- and she could only pick a few -- who would she invite and why. (16:21) ** Emily shares a sneak peak of book #11 coming out June 2022 and we are the FIRST ones to have the scoop! (22:19) ** Speaking of inside info, Emily fills us in on the latest updates regarding her book to screen adaptations of Something Blue and The Lies That Bind. (26:13) **Emily shares her own children’s views on her books, which led us into a fun discussion about the unlikeable female protagonist. (32:36) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do soulmates have an expiration date? We welcome back Tia Williams to discuss this burning question presented by her new novel, Seven Days in June -- a witty, romantic, and sexy-as-hell story of two writers and their second chance at love. ** We start by discussing Eva, who is strong, but also struggling to keep it all together. She underestimates herself, but also overextends herself so that she doesn’t have the capacity to go deep into those places that scare her, like love, and like her family history. Turns out Tia didn’t have to look too far beyond her own life for inspiration. Eva is not your quirky heroine -- she’s got real pain, trauma and a bury past -- and we love her darker layers!  (03:00) ** We read an amazing passage from the novel that gets us talking about the idea that women, when we embrace our contradictions and our pain, we can use that as a way to fight back. Tia talks about the double-standards between men and women -- how women don’t get to be bad boys. (07:16) ** We love a one-that-got-away story so we discussed what drew Tia to this concept of second chances (hint it has something to do with Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo & Juliet starring Leo and Claire!). (10:35) ** Listen to hear how the one that really got away is Eva. Shane is a conduit, helping her unlock her true self and force her to reckon with her past, but this is really about how the one Eva was missing and needed to meet again is herself. We love that! (13:35)  ** In talking about how Shane SEES Eva with a capital “S”, Carinn realizes that the flipside of that is how the good stuff comes in the scenes where Eva SHOWS her messy vulnerable side to him with a capital “S”! We all spend so much time trying to hide our vulnerabilities, to pretend they don’t even exist, but we loved discussing how as women we are all masters of this. (17:32) ** This book is HOT. It’s sexy and steamy and delicious -- the perfect balm for the new post-pandemic world. We chat with Tia about how Eva is not the only one shedding her skin right now and the timeliness of her novel.  (23:12). ** There is a scene in the novel where Eva is on a panel of other black writers and it is a master class in building escalation. The panel talks about the dominance of Black tropes, black suffering being more marketable than black joy, and the void of black characters in fantasy or paranormal stories. It’s so on point and so good on so many levels -- we loved hearing how easy it was for Tia to write. (25:46) ** There are a lot of references to astrology in this book and since we’ve already talked all things fire signs with Tia on our prior interview we decided to share a little bit about her real life romantic connection with her husband based on their signs. Tia then blew our minds with an amazing story about a Leo necklace that her husband gave to her. (30:56). ** This is a hot love story, but we were equally impressed with the multi-generational complexity of mothers and daughters layered into this book. Tia shares why she is so drawn to stories about families. (35:47) ** Tia updates us on the upcoming Netflix adaptation of The Perfect Find with Gabrielle Union. (41:33) ** Tia is a pop culture junkie, so we have to ask her if there is anything she is currently obsessing over. Listen for her suggestions. (42:33) Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.com. Stay Complicated! We’ve launched a platform at patreon.com/popfictionwomen to keep making the podcast you love -- and to make it even better.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we are thrilled to welcome back one of our favorites, Jessica Knoll! Jessica is the New York Times best-selling author of The Favorite Sister and Luckiest Girl Alive, which she adapted and executive produced for the screen. Jessica’s highly-anticipated new novel, Bright Young Woman, is a fictional reimagining of the final murderous spree of our country’s most famous serial killer.  We chat with Jessica about how this book is the result of a “rage epiphany” and proposes a new narrative – that the so-called brilliant and charismatic man behind these acts was actually incredibly average – and that it was the women whose lives were cut short who were the exceptional ones. Jessica discusses the bright young women of her novel – which one helped her work through issues within herself; how these women leaned on each other and saved one another; the ways in which victims are always blamed; and how important it was for her to make clear that women were never fooled by this man. We also talk about grief and finding purpose from loss. We couldn’t let Jessica go without also covering some Bravo content too! Bright Young Women is out now and it’s amazing! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat with Jessica wherever you get your podcasts.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome back Carola Lovering, bestselling author of Tell Me Lies, to discuss her new novel, Bye Baby, a story that explores the complicated friendship between two women and a dark secret that binds them together.  We chat with Carola about the premise for this novel; trauma bonds; writing suspenseful chapters that make you want to keep turning pages; the meaning behind the epigraph in her book; her obsession with obsession as a writing theme; and the surreal experience of seeing the Hulu adaptation of Tell Me Lies!  Bye, Baby is out now! Buy it, read it, share it, and listen to our spoiler-free chat with Carola wherever you get your podcasts! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations, we welcome Kirthana Ramisetti. Her debut novel, Dava Shastri’s Last Day, was a Good Morning America book club pick and is currently in development with HBO Max. We chat with her about her second novel, Advika and the Hollywood Wives, which is out now.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Reese and Tom Brady? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A DOUBLE EPISODE: Fleabag One Woman Show and Recap of Vicky Jones’ Premiere of Run *** Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s original one woman stage show of Fleabag was released to the public for the first time on streaming services to support COVID relief organizations! Talk about silver linings!!! *** Kate and Carinn compare and contrast the TV series and the play, then tie it together with the premiere of Run, Vicky Jones’ new show on HBO. (1:47) *** There are a lot of similarities between the Fleabag one woman stage show and the TV series. (3:14) *** What stood out for us, though, were the differences. The play was very British, seemed tonally crueler, sadder, and heavier and there were some characters and storylines we missed. Do you know what bap is???(5:54) *** The stripped down one woman show also produces some vulnerable, dramatic moments that we don’t get in the TV series. Sometimes theatre produces a different kind of magic. (15:06)  *** The ending of the one woman show is one notable place where it diverges from the TV show and we are conflicted on the fate of Hillary the guinea pig and what that says about Fleabag. (19:20) *** The play was groundbreaking at the time it premiered in 2013, for sure. But would we have found Fleabag to have been too unlikeable? (24:55) *** What did we take away from watching this? Carinn is so impressed with the evolution of Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s work and the fact that the re-imagining of Fleabag was a long haul. Kate is impressed with Phoebe’s acting chops. (28:07) *** We transition to introducing Run, Vicky Jones’ brand new “rom-dram” for HBO. Carinn loves the theme of running away together and Kate loves it for the theme of the one that got away (36:25) *** Carinn worries about the joke from Vicky that last year Phoebe "became famous and I became a mother." She hopes Jenny Robins is making this a threesome rather than a love triangle for our favorite creative partners and besties (42:32) *** Run recap. Listen to our initial feelings on the premiere of Run and whether we’re in for the season. (hint: YES). (47:18) *** Kate insists we need a pact like RUN, but Carinn suggests they already have one: everytime she texts Kate, "I have an idea," and Kate texts back, "I'm in!" See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we are joined by Charlotte Stoudt. Charlotte is the showrunner, executive producer, and creator of Netflix’s Pieces of Her. An Emmy-nominated television industry veteran, she has been involved in such hits as Fosse/Verdon, Homeland, and House of Cards. She will soon assume the role of showrunner on Season Three of The Morning Show starring Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston on Apple TV+.  * We learn how reading Pieces of Her by Karin Slaughter in one sitting — and relating so personally to it — immediately drew her into getting involved in this adaptation. (01:25) * Charlotte shares how she wooed Karin with bacon, a milkshake and a shared astrological sign! (04:24) * We discuss the next frontier in the unlikeable female protagonist — mothers— but how showing their humanity is the great equalizer. (06:10) * Charlotte tells us about her first time acting as a showrunner. (Hint: it is terrifying). (09:58) * We love Charlotte’s advice on how to survive the “no’s” in Hollywood, but more importantly, in life.  (13:50) * We discuss the collaboration between Charlotte and director, Minkie Spiro (who we’ve also interviewed!) (16:25) * Charlotte’s big break came playing an “armchair” lawyer, which of course we had to ask her about! She also shares what people can take away from her model of breaking in and succeeding in the business.  (19:40) * We get the scoop on The Morning Show, her role as showrunner of season three, and how it feels to be part of powerful female dream teams. (22:10) * Astrology comes up multiple times in this interview, but we also talk mysticism and karma. (28:06) * Charlotte tells us what she’s loving. (37:40) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Complicated Conversations we welcome Pernille Hughes to discuss Ten Years, her haters to lovers romance novel about how two people are brought together to complete the bucket list of their recently deceased loved one. We chat with Pernille about her main characters and the ways grief affects them and their personal growth; whether you can have more than one True Love; the freedom to write characters who push each other's buttons; fate vs free will and conspiring with the Universe. We also talk about creating the birthday you want, astrology and how her beliefs on it are impacted by having two very different identical twin children - so fun! Ten Years is out now in paperback in the US. Buy it, read it, and share it! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices