Platform Engineering Podcast (Cory O’Daniel, David Williams, and Chris Hill)

DevOps was conceived as a way to bring developers and operations together, but has it really worked? In this episode, Dave Williams sits down with Cory O’Daniel to discuss his controversial blog post “DevOps Is Bullshit.” Find out why Cory sees platform engineering as a solution. Discover its potential as an antidote to the unmet promises and inherent challenges within the current DevOps landscape. Tune in now!

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When organizations grow beyond using third-party platforms, they face a critical challenge: how to build internal platforms that enable teams to work efficiently while maintaining security and compliance. Abby Bangser, founding principal engineer at Syntasso, shares insights on creating real-world platforms that strike the right balance between standardization and flexibility.

Key Insights

• The shift from external platforms to internal ones often comes from specific business needs, like compliance requirements
• Successful platform engineering requires finding the right balance between prescriptive standards and flexible customization
• Platforms should offer multiple levels of abstraction - from simplified "paved paths" to advanced customization options
• Platform teams should watch how users interact with their services to identify emerging patterns and needs

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Testing smart TV applications presents unique challenges that traditional web testing approaches can't solve. Dave Lucia, CTO and co-founder of TV Labs, shares how his team built a platform that virtualizes televisions and set-top boxes to help media companies test their smart TV apps on physical devices.

Learn about TV Labs' innovative architecture and how they handle everything from camera-based testing systems to their custom Lua-based DSL for faster test execution. A key highlight is how choosing Elixir as their primary technology has enabled TV Labs to build a robust orchestration system. The language's built-in capabilities for fault tolerance, process isolation, and distributed computing make it particularly well-suited for managing concurrent connections and real-time state across multiple devices.

The discussion also explores practical insights about system architecture, including how TV Labs leverages Phoenix presence for real-time device state tracking and achieves microsecond-level performance for message broadcasting.

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Building infrastructure tooling doesn't require massive VC funding or a huge team - just ask Malcolm Matalka, co-founder of bootstrapped Terrateam. Malcolm shares his journey from real estate websites to investment banking to biotech, before landing in infrastructure automation.

Learn how Terrateam takes a unique "libraries over frameworks" approach to development, prioritizing simplicity and control by carefully selecting dependencies and building critical components in-house. Malcolm explains how this philosophy leads to more maintainable code and better security outcomes.

As an early participant in the OpenTofu fork, Malcolm provides insights into the community response and adoption challenges. He discusses how Terrateam helps teams streamline their infrastructure workflows by integrating directly with existing tools and processes rather than forcing new ones.

For platform engineers looking to simplify their infrastructure management, Malcolm describes the ideal Terrateam user as someone who wants infrastructure changes to flow naturally through their existing development process without added complexity.

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Is GitOps holding your team back? In this thought-provoking conversation with Massdriver co-founder Dave Williams, we challenge conventional wisdom around cloud infrastructure management and explore why traditional approaches to compliance and self-service may be creating more problems than they solve.

Discover how leading organizations are moving beyond ceremonial approval processes to create truly automated, self-service platforms that enhance developer productivity while maintaining security and control. Learn why treating infrastructure as code differently from application code could be the key to unlocking engineering velocity.

Key topics covered:

• Why compliance doesn't require manual GitOps workflows
• Creating meaningful abstractions that codify operations expertise
• The shift from reactive to proactive infrastructure governance
• How platform teams can become strategic enablers rather than bottlenecks

Whether you're a platform engineer, engineering leader, or developer frustrated with current infrastructure processes, this episode offers practical insights for evolving your approach to cloud operations.

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In this episode of the Platform Engineering Podcast, Cory O'Daniel sits down with Justin Berman, Vice President of Platform Engineering and Chief Information Security Officer at Thirty Madison. Justin shares his journey from software engineering to security leadership, discusses the challenges of building secure and scalable platforms, and offers insights into the future of platform engineering and security integration.

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Startups always bring refreshing perspectives and brand-new ideas to any space, and the platform engineering industry is no different. In this episode, Cory O'Daniel sits down with Colton Dempsey of Next47 to discuss the important role of startup ventures in the progress of platform engineering. He explains the five categories of startups, why many of them are building more diverse feature sets, and the most effective monetization approaches for open-source projects. Colton also delves into the rise of cloud-native technologies and Kubernetes, detailing how they influenced his investment strategies.

It’s episode four of the Platform Engineering Podcast’s special series on the Foundations of The Cloud! This time Cory O'Daniel sits down with Brian Grant, the original lead architect of Kubernetes, to dive deep into the history and evolution of Kubernetes in cloud operations. Brian shares his journey from working in supercomputing to joining Google and helping develop Kubernetes. He also provides insights on the importance of Kubernetes' declarative model, managing complexity in cloud native environments, and the extensive impact and future potential of Kubernetes. Tune in to learn more about the intricate details of platform engineering and the revolutionary developments in cloud native infrastructure.

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Join us as we learn about Stack Overflow's monumental shift from on-premises infrastructure to the cloud with Peter O'Connor, Director of Platform Engineering. Peter shares invaluable insights on navigating the complexities of migrating a beloved developer platform, balancing technical challenges with team dynamics, and fostering a culture of innovation. From the intricacies of lift-and-shift strategies to the nuances of adopting microservices, this episode offers a masterclass in modern platform engineering. Discover how Stack Overflow is revolutionizing its architecture while maintaining its core mission of serving developers worldwide.

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Jessica Kalinowski, VP of DevOps and Corporate IT at Connect RN, shares her journey from corporate IT to implementing DevOps and platform engineering in a startup environment. Jessica discusses the challenges and successes of applying tech strategies in healthcare.

The episode covers strategies for platform adoption, including early engineer engagement and flexible implementation. Jessica discusses how automation has enabled efficient management with a small team, benefiting the entire organization.

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In this episode Cory sits down with Adrian Cockroft, a pioneering technologist who played a crucial role in Netflix's transition to cloud computing and microservices architecture. Adrian shares insights from his impressive career, including his work at Netflix, AWS, and beyond. He discusses the evolution of DevOps practices, the rise of microservices, and the challenges of platform engineering in today's complex cloud environments. Adrian also delves into the pressing issue of sustainability in tech, offering valuable perspectives on the environmental impact of AI and machine learning workloads. Whether you're a seasoned DevOps professional or just starting your journey in cloud computing, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge from one of the industry's most influential figures.

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In this week's episode, Chris Hill gets Dave Williams to go deeper into how platform engineering is moving one step beyond DevOps. Listen in as they discuss the skill sets, principles, and mindset needed to enable this evolution in the field.

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In this episode Chris Hill asks Cory O’Daniel, CEO and co-founder of Massdriver, to explain the concept and benefits of hybrid cloud, including the use of multiple cloud providers and container services for scalability and flexibility. The discussion also addresses the security and networking challenges that using hybrid cloud implies. 

Why do 70% of organizations still struggle to adopt infrastructure as code? Sören Martius, CPO and co-founder of Terramate, joins Cory O'Daniel to tackle the challenges of modern infrastructure management and the delicate balance between vendor trust and lock-in.

The conversation explores practical solutions for common infrastructure challenges, from managing monolithic state files to orchestrating complex deployments. Martius shares insights on: 

• When to maintain a monolithic state file versus breaking it into smaller units
• How infrastructure needs evolve as engineering teams grow beyond 100 people
• Why anti-lock-in features build trust with operations teams
• The role of AI in detecting and remediating infrastructure misconfigurations

For teams wrestling with infrastructure complexity or evaluating new tools, this discussion offers practical perspectives on building scalable, maintainable infrastructure while avoiding common pitfalls around vendor lock-in and team adoption.

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In this episode of the Platform Engineering Podcast, Cory O’Daniel speaks with Amey Patil, Head of Platform Engineering at Google Ads and Google Analytics. They discuss the evolving landscape of platform engineering, the integration of AI and ML, and the human factors essential for leading successful platform teams. From managing legacy code migrations to fostering a culture of innovation, Amey shares insights and strategies that are vital for both seasoned professionals and newcomers to the field. Tune in to gain valuable knowledge and stay ahead in the dynamic world of platform engineering.

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For teams ingrained in DevOps practices, Platform Engineering ushers in a broader horizon, a fresh perspective on managing infrastructure. But what does Platform Engineering offer, especially for those adept in cloud operations? In this episode, Cory O’Daniel talks to Chris Hill about platform engineering from the perspective of a cloud operations engineer. From the importance of security and compliance and the challenges faced by developers to the impact of Massdriver to deliver infrastructure management to engineers, Chris shares insights from his decade-long experience. Tune in for an exploration of platform engineering's evolution!

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In this third episode of the Platform Engineering Podcast’s special series on the Foundations of The Cloud, host Corey O'Daniel interviews Mitchell Hashimoto, co-founder of HashiCorp and creator of Terraform, Vault, and Nomad. They discuss the intricacies of platform engineering, the history and evolution of Terraform, the advent of infrastructure as code, and the challenges accompanying it. Mitchell also shares insights on his new project, Ghostly, a high-performance terminal emulator, and delves into how generative AI will transform operations engineering. Listen to this episode to get valuable lessons for both industry veterans and newcomers.

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For teams ingrained in DevOps practices, this term ushers in a broader horizon, a fresh perspective on managing infrastructure and applications. But what does Platform Engineering offer?

In this episode, Cory talks to Dave Williams about platform engineering and why he sees this as the future of running applications in the cloud.

Are your platform teams constantly saying "no" to requests for new Kubernetes clusters? The traditional approach to Kubernetes multi-tenancy forces organizations to choose between cluster sprawl or restrictive namespaces - neither of which fully meets the needs of modern development teams.

Lukas Gentele, CEO and co-founder of Loft Labs, shares how vCluster is transforming the way organizations handle multi-tenancy in Kubernetes. By running virtual Kubernetes control planes inside namespaces, vCluster enables teams to experiment with different versions, operators, and configurations while maintaining efficient resource usage.

Key topics covered:

• How vCluster solves the limitations of namespace-based multi-tenancy
• Running multiple Kubernetes versions in the same cluster for testing and gradual upgrades
• Managing bare metal GPU resources efficiently for AI/ML workloads
• Balancing standardization with developer autonomy in platform engineering
• Using virtual clusters for cost-effective testing across multiple Kubernetes versions

Whether you're a platform engineer looking to say "yes" more often or a development team seeking greater autonomy within Kubernetes, this discussion offers practical insights into modern multi-tenancy approaches.

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In this episode, Solomon Hykes discusses the journey from Docker's inception to its widespread adoption, the challenges faced in open-source development, and his current work with Dagger. He explains how Dagger aims to revolutionize continuous integration by making pipelines more modular and efficient, addressing the "push and pray" problem in software development. Hykes also shares insights on the evolution of DevOps, the complexities of open-source business models, and his vision for the future of software development workflows.

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Technical expertise is undoubtedly important when it comes to implementing Platform Engineering but unless you are also paying close attention to the human factor and the cultural aspects of building an effective team it will be much harder to succeed.

Cory talks to Morteza Irdmousa, Head of Platform Engineering at Curative, about his experiences in Platform Engineering and DevOps. Join them as they explore the need for a holistic approach that considers both technical and cultural aspects of implementing Platform teams. Gain valuable insights and actionable takeaways as they discuss key issues such as team integration, psychological safety, team engagement, and messaging that truly conveys the business impact of platform engineering work.

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Navigating cloud migrations and building modern platforms is challenging in the best of circumstances. Alex Voorhees, VP of Cloud Engineering at 66 Degrees, shares valuable lessons from helping organizations as they take on these challenges.

Don’t miss his insights on:

• How to tackle the human and organizational challenges that come with cloud transformation
• Practical strategies for upskilling teams transitioning from traditional ops to cloud operations
• Key considerations when implementing platform engineering solutions across different organizational maturity levels
• Integrating AI capabilities into cloud architecture
• Common pitfalls to avoid when moving legacy applications to the cloud
• Approaches for balancing innovation with practical business needs during cloud migration

Whether you're leading a cloud migration, building a platform team, or interested in the future of cloud operations, this episode offers concrete takeaways for navigating the technical and organizational challenges of modern infrastructure.

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John Dietz, CEO and co-founder of Konstruct (formerly Kubefirst), joins us fresh from KubeCon North America to discuss the evolution of cloud-native platform adoption. John shares insights into Konstruct's mission to make Kubernetes and cloud-native technology more accessible, reducing the typical 18-month adoption timeline to minutes.

The conversation explores Konstruct's two main products: Kubefirst, an open-source GitOps platform, and Colony, their new solution for bare metal and data center deployments. John discusses the company's philosophy on open-source licensing, the importance of building trust in platform engineering, and their unique approach to commercialization while maintaining core platform accessibility.

Don’t miss our new segment: TrashOps!

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In this second episode of the Platform Engineering Podcast’s special series on the Foundations of The Cloud, Cory O’Daniel meets up with Adam Jacob, co-founder of Chef and System Initiative. They discuss his early interest in infrastructure and automation, the development and impact of Chef in the DevOps community, and his transition to becoming a CEO. The conversation emphasizes the community and technological advancements Chef brought to the industry and introduces the ambitious goals of his current project, System Initiative. Don't miss this insightful conversation—tune in now to discover the future of infrastructure and automation!

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Want your work to mean more?

In this inspiring episode of the Platform Engineering Podcast, we welcome Grace Huntley, Director of Engineering for DevOps, InfoSec, and Safety Net Innovation Lab at Code for America. Grace shares her unconventional journey from licensed plumber to civic tech leader, driven by personal experiences and a passion for solving societal challenges through technology. 

Discover how Code for America is revolutionizing government services, making them more accessible and efficient for those in need. Grace discusses the transition from private sector to civic tech, the challenges of working with government systems, and the exciting potential of AI in improving public services. 

This episode offers valuable insights into the intersection of technology, social impact, and the future of civic engagement.

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Feeling overwhelmed by the number of apps you need to manage while building developer trust, managing costs, and trying to create an extensible platform that teams actually want to use?

Joel Vasallo shares practical insights from scaling TAG's platform engineering initiatives across multiple healthcare organizations. Learn how his team transformed deployment times from weeks to minutes while maintaining security and compliance. Joel breaks down the journey from initial Kubernetes adoption to managing 70+ applications. 

Listeners will gain actionable strategies for:

- Starting small with platform initiatives and building organic buy-in

- Balancing standardization with team autonomy

- Managing cloud costs across multiple organizations

- Building trust through visibility and auditability

Whether you're in healthcare or any regulated industry, this conversation provides a practical roadmap for evolving your platform engineering practice.

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Chris Hill sits down with Cory O'Daniel to talk about how Infrastructure as Code can help with disaster recovery and business continuity. From the technology and personnel challenges to scenarios such as losing one of your regions and the importance of backup plans, learn how IaC can be used to help ensure data and operations are not affected.

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In this special episode of the Platform Engineering Podcast on Foundations of The Cloud, Cory O'Daniel chats with Mark Burgess, the creator of CFEngine and a pioneer in configuration management. They dive into Mark's journey from physics to computer science, the birth of CFEngine, and the dynamic world of system administration and DevOps. They also explore the evolution of IT operations, the challenges of managing modern infrastructures, and the future promises of AI and autonomous systems in tech. Join us for an insightful discussion filled with historical anecdotes, practical advice, and visionary ideas for the future of platform engineering.

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