Pizza City with Steve Dolinsky (Steve Dolinsky)

Eytan Sugarman certainly has strong opinions about pizza. He grew up on the Upper West Side, eating slices all over the city. So when his friend suggested they open a place together, the research and development phase took on a life of its own. The result is Made in New York Pizza, which opened on the Upper West Side in 2018 and recently opened a second location in the West Village.

Tandy Wilson grew up in Nashville, went to culinary school and worked in Northern California, studying Mediterranean cooking, before exploring Italy's cuisine and culture for an immersive education. He returned to his hometown, opening City House, in the Germantown section of Nashville in 2008. His wood-fired pies are unique, mainly due to what Wilson puts on top of them.

Our first panel discussion at Pizza City Fest L.A. this year was "The Dough Whisperers," a panel including three of the leading dough experts in L.A. right now: Daniele Uditi (Pizzana), Andy Kadin (Bub & Grandma's; dough supplier for Nancy Silverton/Mozza) and Evan Funke (Funke, Felix Trattoria, Mother Wolf). Moderated by our friend Noel Brohner, this slightly edited version includes a few of the audience questions as well. You can watch the entire discussion on our YouTube channel as well.

Steve sits down with Paulie Gee, of the namesake wood-fired pizzeria in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, at his new slice joint just a couple of blocks away. Paulie talks about ditching his corporate I.T. job for a life in pizza. He has become a mentor to many young pizza makers in the country, and has even sprouted additional locations in three other cities.

Steve talks with Justin Bazdarich, the owner/founder of Speedy Romeo, with two locations in New York City. Justin is originally from Kansas, but his father was from St. Louis, so all of those visits to Imo’s over the years led to an appreciation of Provel cheese. Even though he has worked for chefs like Jean-Georges Vongerichten, opening several of his restaurants all over the world, he always loved pizza. When he opened his own place about seven years ago, he committed to making an artisan pie, which meant at least two days of fermentation, making all of his mozzarella in-house, grinding his sausage and pickling his chilies. His wood-burning oven creates Instagram-worthy corniciones with textbook leopard-spotting, but he hasn’t forgotten his Midwestern roots. One of his best-loved pies is a “St. Louie” with Provel, Italian sausage, pepperoni and pickled chilies.

Jason Vincent (Giant, Chef's Special) has worked in Chicago as a Chef for nearly 20 years. After stints at Lula and Nightwood, he struck out on his own and despite running two successful restaurants in town, decided to pursue pizza in a serious was during the pandemic. At Pizza Matta, he offers both an E. Coast-inspired thin as well as a Midwestern tavern style.

Luca Platania has had a tough road getting to where he is. A brain tumor scare followed his move from Italy to Finland (he followed his wife back home), where he had to learn the language. Now, he's got several locations of Forza in Finland, and Steve met up with him at his year-old space in Helsinki, where Luca showed off his two styles of pizza.

For 70 years, Denino's has been one of the most beloved pizzerias on Staten Island. Featured in Pete Davidson's film, "The King of Staten Island", the restaurant is a family affair, and owner Michael Burke practically grew up in it. He shares some of the pizzeria's secrets, and has some great advice for would-be pizzeria owners.

Victor Barry is a chef and restaurateur in Toronto who continues evolving. He’s got three Piano Pianos, a Piccolo Piano plus two shops dedicated to pizza, and now a slowly growing frozen business. I first had his pizza sitting at the restaurant’s bar about six years ago, and I still remember how much I enjoyed it. Very Neapolitan, and very dialed-in to the list of imported ingredients. But most important, he makes sure he has a pizzaiolo who knows how to work the oven.

Brett Nemec has worked his way up in the restaurant industry, and several years ago he decided to take the plunge into pizza. But not the tavern style thin, square-cut slices he grew up with in Chicago's western suburbs; rather, he decided to tackle New York slices, and has been improving ever since he opened in 2021. Zazas is one of several places to find great New York style slices these days in Chicago.

Peter Dorrance and Eric Ehler met while working at Mr. Jiu's, the Michelin-starred restaurant in San Francisco's Chinatown. They left to open Outta Sight, a NYC-style pizzeria in the Tenderloin. Convincing locals that it's OK to re-heat slices to-order took some getting used to!

John Notaro may have spent his early years in Brooklyn, but there's no denying pizza and baking are in his DNA. He spent years at Sbarro, then ran a bakery until he became partners at Famous Ben's, a SoHo landmark since 1979 (they celebrate 46 years in business this month). We talked about his "Palermo" which aficionados will recognize as a sfincione (sans anchovies).

We revisit this wonderful pizzeria from the Upper West Side of NYC, now that they have a second location downtown. Frank Tuttolomondo's square slices at Mama's TOO! are incredible.

Steve sits down with one half of the team behind Sofia Pizza Shoppe, on the East Side of Manhattan, just North of the United Nations. Tommy DeGrezia is the force behind the "Doughdici," as well as a number of creative slices at this tiny shop on 1st Avenue. Known for their ideal NYC triangles and Grandma-style squares, the shop also gets creative with vodka sauce and a spinach-artichoke flavor that initially went viral (in a good way).

Jeff Rogers grew up in Minneapolis, though his family is from the Iron Range in Northern Minnesota. His restaurant and bar experience in the Twin Cities led him to open his own place, Wrecktangle, which is certainly inspired by Detroit, but doesn't feel the need to adhere to those regional rules. Jeff creates unique flavors for a pie that is unique among its peers in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

For nearly 80 years, Rose Barraco George has been a part of legendary Vito & Nick's in Chicago. A true blue collar joint since it's inception as a bar in 1920, the bar/restaurant continues its tradition of making one of the finest tavern style pizzas in the city.

In this episode, Steve talks with Wes Pikula, the VP of Operations at Buddy’s, a Detroit institution, where “Detroit style” pizza was born in 1946. Pikula has been with the company since 1975; it has spawned dozens of imitators across the country. The rectangular pie - made in a deep pan the original cooks found via the local auto industry – picks up flavor from not only the well-seasoned pans, but also from the higher fat brick cheese and assertive pepperoni that are embedded into the dough the day before baking. Just two racing stripes of tomato sauce are draped across the top right before baking in a conveyor oven. The result is a softer middle with a crispy, cheesy edge and undercarriage.

All-Purpose is one of D.C.'s best pizza places, and the pies are a result of owner Mike Friedman's many experiences at restaurants along the Eastern Seaboard. Sourcing only the best flour, tomatoes and cheese, he has elevated the typical New York thin, deck oven baked pizza, by adding hydration and a solid three days of fermentation.

Connie Zotta is the 2nd generation to run Salerno's in Chicago's West Town neighborhood. The pizzeria has been around since 1966, when it opened in a near suburb of Chicago (Berwyn). Zotta's dad, Joe Salerno, founded the business with his brothers, but since he passed away recently, she has been tasked with keeping the tradition alive.

After a 19 month hiatus, the International Pizza Expo is back, somewhat diminished due to a raging Delta variant, but still, people from all over the country made their way to the desert to talk shop. I roamed the floor for Days 1 and 2 of the Expo, talking to all sorts of stakeholders about what they're working on these days.

Darby Aldaco got into some big trouble as a kid, stealing pizzas from stopped delivery cars. At 18, he was arrested for stealing a Domino’s pizza, subsequently losing his prom date. He wound his way through the L.A. bread scene, worked for Nancy Silverton at Triple Beam, then began commuting to Portland for a pizza project. The result is Pizza Thief (and the Bandit Bar next door). They make 18 inch pies and focus on sour dough and whole grains with high hydration. Like so many of their peers in Portland, they get all of their ingredients from local farms, markets and mills in the Northwest.

Thom and James Elliot fell hard for Neapolitan pizza, and decided to buy a small van and drive through Italy, discovering and learning all they could about pizza making. The result is "Pizza" a new book about their adventures, which include a few cities in the U.S. They now have 14 locations of their Pizza Pilgrims brand in the U.K., where you can even get pizza making kits for home (if you live in London).

Tony Gemignani has won multiple championships in Italy for his pizza making prowess, but he's also authored books on the subject, teaches would-be pizzaiolos how to make various styles (and certifies them) all while overseeing a pair of San Francisco pizzerias that produce upwards of 17 styles of regional pizza between them. Steve spent an afternoon talking (and eating) pizza with the man many refer to as the ultimate Pizza Ambassador.

During the two-day festival at the end of August, we always hold a series of educational and informational panel discussions. We have excerpts this week from "The Dough Whisperers" and the "3rd Wave Deep Dish/Pan" panels, held at The Salt Shed in Chicago.

We always have a couple of panel discussions and demos at Pizza City Fest, and a few weeks ago in L.A., we brought together three brilliant pizza makers who think visually as much as they do about the recipes. Justin De Leon (Apollonia's), Ines Glaser (Lupa Cotta) and Thomas McNaughton (Flour & Water Pizzeria, SF) join the LA Food Podcast's Luca Servodio to talk about their process.

Patti Tubbs literally grew up in the pizza business. Her grandfather started Italian Fiesta Pizzeria on the city's far South Side in the 1940s, and the recipe hasn't changed a bit. A young Michelle Obama (nee Robinson) grew up on the pizza, and turned her family onto it while they lived in Hyde Park. Patti talks with Steve about her family's history, then makes him a sausage-giardiniera pie.

Dan Kluger took a very different route to pizza making. A classically trained chef who has worked with NYC legends like Danny Meyer, Tom Colicchio, Floyd Cardoz and Jean-Georges Vongerichten, he started Washington Squares as an answer to COVID restrictions, when his restaurant - Loring Place - was shuttered. Now the grandma-style squares are available all of the time from the basement kitchen; even on Goldbelly for nationwide shipping.

Justin Smillie has worked for some of New York City's top chefs, including Jonathan Waxman. He's currently running the kitchen at Il Buco Alimentari in NoHo, where practically everything is made in-house. But the unique part of their pizza program is they par-bake the crusts, which allow for carryout orders to customize and do the finishing bakes at home.

A pair of Filipino cousins joined forces with their Mexican friend to open a unique pizzeria in the Pilsen neighborhood of Chicago. Novel Pizza Cafe combines both of the partners' cultures, but also thinks of itself as and all-day cafe. We took a closer look at how they make both a Chicago thin pie as well as a deep-pan.

A Chicago native who grew up on NYC slices, Don Hernandez traveled around the country, ending up in Nashville several years ago. He never intended to open a pizzeria, but he found that it was recession and pandemic-proof, and the community just outside of town, in Madison, was incredibly supportive. His NYC-inspired slices at Pinky Ring Pizza go a few steps further, employing not one but two all-natural starters.

Noah Sandoval has to be the only two-star Michelin chef currently making pizza. His fine dining restaurant - Oriole - was taking a break during the pandemic, so he and his business partners came up with a new take on Sicilian pizza, previously unseen in Chicago. With complete humility, he reached out to an expert in Las Vegas for guidance. The result? Pizza Friendly Pizza in the Ukrainian Village/Humboldt Park neighborhood.

There are several Umberto's locations on Long Island, but none more famous than the one in New Hyde Park, where generations of pizza lovers have visited over the years. It's there where the pizza cooks began making a thinner Sicilian, one of them dubbing it "Grandma style." Did they really invent it? Listen to Part 1 of our Umberto's saga. We'll also preview the NYC Pizza Festival (Home Edition) coming up April 24th and 25th.

Adam Kuban's dad always aspired to have his own pizza place. Maybe that's why the writer wound up becoming New York City's first writer dedicated to covering pizza. Tackling a subject as wide and deep (and occasionally controversial) as NYC pizza is no small feat. Kuban agreed to meet at Scarr's on the Lower East Side for a couple of slices, and to share some of his favorite slices around the city. This is incredibly important intel if you want to consider yourself an authoritative NYC pizza eater.

Chris Decker worked for 26 years under John Arena at Metro in Las Vegas, but now he's the guy in charge at Truly Pizza in Dana Point, CA. They offer two very distinct styles of pizza and both are incredible. Chris and his crew are going to be featured at Pizza City Fest LA this weekend, where they'll be showing off a very unique pie. He previews it for us on this week's show.

Chris Getchell is widely acknowledged as the founder, creator, mastermind at Descendant in Toronto. It’s in Leslieville, on Queen East, and it’s among the best Detroit style pizzas anywhere. Steve was back in Toronto a few weeks ago, and so when he set up the interview, expecting to meet Chris, he instead met Ike Tzakis, another partner and pizzamaker there. Ike’s going to break some news on today’s show, so if you’re at all interested in the Toronto pizza scene, listen carefully.

This year's International Pizza Expo was back in full force after a couple of years of limping along. The Las Vegas Convention Center was filled with all kinds of vendors and suppliers, as well as pizza fanatics. I lost my voice the day before the Expo started, so it was a challenge talking to people, but I managed to hear a number of voices from different perspectives in the industry.

Rick Rosenfield started his career with the Justice Department, going on to become a trial lawyer and prosecutor. But he and his business partner realized early on they wanted out of law, and into the restaurant business. They decided to create a pizza brand based on the California way of living - fresh produce, seasonal ingredients and unique (often misunderstood) flavors for 1980s America. The result was California Pizza Kitchen (CPK) a brand that has more than 200 locations worldwide. We talked about his origin story and how the brand developed its signature style of pizza.

Sarah Minnick knew she had to tackle bread making if she was ever going to improve her pizza crust. The quest for a better dough took her down a long path, and for the past 12 years, Lovely's Fifty Fifty has been one of the most well-regarded pizzerias - not just in the Pacific Northwest, but anywhere in the country. Sarah talks about her inspiration, her process, and how she decided to stop burning wood and made the transition to an electric oven.

Matthew Grogan loved the pizza from Grimaldi's (and later, Juliana's) so much, he quit his job in finance to help Patsy Grimaldi continue his vision. The New York native has seen Grimaldi through good and bad times, and feels the weight of carrying on that vision well into the 21st century. We discuss the complicated history of Grimaldi's and Juliana's, including the special challenges involved in running a coal-fired oven beneath the Brooklyn Bridge.

Jerry Benedetto really missed Chicago when he moved to Portland for his wife's job. But more than anything he missed the thin-and-crispy pizza that is a hallmark of his hometown. That passion and longing led to a Covid-fueled journey through flour, sauce, sausage and giardiniera that has led to a regular pop-up, and eventually, a pizza place. The story behind Jerry's Pizza is certainly inspiring for anyone who has ever dreamed of going into pizza full-time.

Steve travels to Montreal in the middle of winter, to taste one of the city's best pies at Pizzeria Gema. Chef/Owner Michele Forgione and his Pizzaiolo are making a true Canadian artisan style pizza, by making all of the toppings themselves and letting their dough ferment for at least 48 hours.

Steve talks with Gina Pianetto, the 3rd generation owner of Pat's Pizza in Chicago. The pizza the late film critic Roger Ebert dubbed his favorite, is still going strong, some 70 years after Nicholas "Pat" Pianetto started the joint in 1950. Known for their cracker-thin crust, which takes about six days to make, Steve argues this is the style of pizza most Chicagoans actually eat, rather than deep-dish.

Steve sits down with Mark Iacono, owner/founder of Lucali, one of New York City's most revered pizza joints. Iacono designed his Carroll Gardens restaurant to resemble a pizzeria from the 1940s. Everything may look old, but it's all new. His handmade, wood-fired oven is the star attraction - more curved than domed - and some of Brooklyn's most majestic pies emerge from its stone deck.

Steve sits down with Rich Aronson, the 2nd generation owner of My Pi, which his father Larry opened in 1971. Rich talks about how they were the first deep-dish outside of Illinois, then shrank back to just one location. His father's meticulousness - he was a 3rd generation baker - led to all sorts of tweaks on the original Uno's recipe. To this day, it's one of Steve's favorite versions of deep-dish, and it will be yours too, once you try it.

Steve talks with Frank Tuttolomondo, owner of Mama's Too! on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Frank's family has owned Mama's Pizza nearby for nearly 60 years, but his approach to pizza-making is far different. He experiments with hydration levels, baking technique and fermentation, but also offers a more artisan approach to Sicilian and classic wedges (baked in gas ovens).

Dan Richer is serious about his pizza. Time, temp and a laser-focused intensity about the quality of his ingredients all combine to make his artisan pies something to behold (and devour). Razza not only has a 3-star review from the New York Times, but was just named the best pizza in North America by the 50 Top Pizza group, based in Italy. Steve talks to Richer about his method and approach to making a stellar pie.

Steve talks to Anthony Falco, one of the founders of Roberta's, in Bushwick, Brooklyn, who, over the past three years, has become a pizzaiolo for-hire. He's set up new pizzerias all over the world, and continues to create new, artisan options for some pizza shops in the U.S. as well. They met at Upside Pizza, in Midtown Manhattan, one of Falco's recent clients.

Steve talks with Justin De Leon, a former professional photographer who has married his love of photography with his passion for pizza at Apollonia's in L.A. Having grown up with heavy pizza in Monterey Park, he has spent years developing his Sicilian squares which have enormous interior crumb and impossibly high cheese fricos around the lacy edges. The fact he knows how to photograph them makes them even more irresistible on Instagram.

Steve talks with Robert Garvey, an engineer-turned-playwright-turned-pizzaiolo who grew up in Queens with a slice-a-day habit. Moving to Chicago in 1993, he started tinkering with dough recipes and spent the next decade or so, tweaking his recipe until he got it right. He recently re-opened his namesake pizzeria in Chicago after being closed for nearly a year, and his memorable pies are better than ever.

This week, Steve talks to Chef Michael Schwartz, the owner of Michael's Genuine Food & Drink in Miami and Cleveland, and Genuine Pizza in Miami. Schwartz's new book, "Genuine Pizza: Better Pizza at Home" just came out, and Schwartz was in Chicago recently, doing a takeover of one of the ovens at Pacific Standard Time. He talks about some of the must-have tools for home pizza-making, but also discusses how he grew up on bad pizza in Philadelphia, then eventually opened Harry's Pizza in the Design District of Miami.

Steve talks to Chris Bianco - of Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix - about his new collaboration with Tartine Bakery's Chad Robertson and Elizabeth Prueitt, in The Manufactory in downtown L.A. He's focusing on flatbreads, rather than the wood-fired pies he's known for, but the scale of the operation is mighty impressive.

Steve talks with Steven Dilley, the owner of Bufalina and Bufalina Due in Austin, Texas. Dilley's parents are Italian and Taiwanese, so he has a unique perspective on food; his experience in the financial world in New York City, combined with some traveling and research in Naples, led to Bufalina in 2013 in East Austin. He talks about the city's pizza scene, and why he didn't bother trying to attain VPN certification for his thin and blistered pies.

Steve talks with Marc Malnati, the President of Lou Malnati's, Chicago's most prolific deep-dish purveyor. Opened in 1971 by his late father, they just opened a new store beneath Michigan Avenue this month; the company sells nearly six million pizzas a year, and are known as one of the original sources of authentic deep-dish in Chicago.

Steve travels to New Haven, CT, home to Yale, as well as some of the most revered pizza joints in the country. He meets up with Colin Caplan, the author of "Pizza in New Haven" and Owner of Taste of New Haven Tours. Steve (and a few lucky contest winners) learn about the city's unique pizza history, then taste the legendary pies at Frank Pepe's, Sally's and Modern.

Steve talks with Adam Sweet, an Arkansas native who ended up in Indiana. His first King Dough started on the campus of Indiana University, but he more recently opened in Indianapolis, directly across the street from Smoking Goose Meatery, a world-class producer of cured and smoked meats, and the collaboration has been a delicious one.

Steve talks with Chicago native Jared Leonard about his latest pizzeria - Grabowski's - located in the RiNo District of Denver. Leonard is bringing the pizza of his childhood (that means tavern-style, thin, square-cut pizzas) to his newly adopted home.

Leo Spizzirri is the driving force behind only the second North American branch of the famed Scuola Italiana Pizzaioli. This pizza school has a location in San Francisco, but Spizzirri now has an accredited program about 45 min. west of downtown Chicago. He talks about how he got into the business, fell in love with Italy's regional styles, then convinced Italian authorities to let him open a school in the Midwest. Some classes are for die-hards who want to open their own pizzerias, while others are just hobbyists who want to improve their pizza-making skills.

Steve talks with Vincent Rotolo, the driving force behind Good Pie in Las Vegas. Rotolo is a native New Yorker (grew up working at John's on Bleeker) who brought his love and passion for pizza to the desert. He is part of a growing roster of pizza makers there, raising the level of pizza quality in the city that hosts the International Pizza Summit every Spring.

Tucked into the first floor of the Urbanica Hotel in South Beach, a Brooklyn-style pizza awaits, topped with Bianco di Napoli tomatoes and Grande cheese. Yes, not all slice joints in S. Beach are equal! Editor Pizza is taking the beach pizza concept a few steps further, with a slight Argentinian twist.

Steve talks with Marc Malnati, the President of Lou Malnati's, Chicago's most prolific deep-dish purveyor. Opened on St. Patrick's Day, 1971, by his late father, they just opened a new store beneath Michigan Avenue and continue to slowly expand in Wisconsin. The company sells nearly six million pizzas a year, and are known as having a style of pizza based on the original source of authentic deep-dish in Chicago.

Danny Stoller and Mark Shechter finally opened Square Pie Guys after many months of doing pop-ups in San Francisco. Their pizzeria reflects their love of Detroit-style, but they definitely take some liberties, not adhering to all of the Detroit-style rules (no Wisconsin brick cheese, for example). The result is a unique pan pie that is both delicious to look at as well as eat.

Pete Ternes really just wanted to make beer. But when he and his partners opened Bungalow by Middle Brow, their sprawling space in Chicago's Logan Square, they realized they needed to offer something besides just drinks. Bread for sure, but why not pizza? It was an experience at Roberta's in Bushwick that really convinced Ternes he could create something unique in Chicago. The result is one of the best artisan pies in town, with an all-natural starter and a long fermentation.

From Israel, to New York City and then…Berlin of all places. John Margulies went from clubs and electronic music to pizza, deciding to open his own pizzeria - Magic John's - just days before the world shut down in 2020. Today, he’s on a path toward expanding his brand all over Germany with his unique take on New York style and Detroit style pies. One of the things that has served him well is his innate hustle, and his ability to pivot almost daily. You think you have supply issues? Imagine starting from scratch when it comes to flour sourcing, or cheese and sauce, when there is no such thing as Grande or Bacio or Stanislaus.

Rosanna D'Amato is the 3rd generation of her family to run the namesake bakery on the Near West Side of Chicago. Known for their coal-fired oven, D'Amato's produces some of the best sandwich bread and focaccia, but they also produce a Sicilian pan "bakery" pizza that is one-of-a-kind. Steve talks to Rosanna about how she grew up in the business and what makes their pizza so special.

Rony Stark grew up in Italy, with an appreciation for homemade pasta and pizza. But when he moved to Nashville several years ago, he saw an opportunity to create something no one had done before: Roman pinsas. At PennePazze he offers both handmade pasta and these light and airy pizzas, and is expanding the business.

Tony Scardino is a child of the Chicago suburbs. His memories are of thin and crispy tavern style pies, but over the years, as he made his way around the kitchens of some of Chicago's better restaurants, he got the pizza bug. The last few years have seen him and his Professor Pizza brand bouncing around Chicago, but always improving his craft. Today, his kitchen sits atop a building in the hot West Loop, where he makes three styles of pizza - and continues experimenting all of the time.

Andrew Bellucci has had a tough couple of years. After opening Bellucci Pizza with a business partner then having a falling out during the pandemic, he struck out on his own - just a half-mile away - opening Andrew Bellucci's Pizzeria. Now, in addition to a legal battle, he has to constantly remind guests of his new business, while striving to make the best pizza he can, by using only the best ingredients. His experience working in a pair of Michelin-starred restaurants in Alsace is certainly unique among his peers.

Neal DeNardi spent years working for various heavy hitters in San Francisco's pizza world: Pizza Hacker, Tony Gemignani, Del Popolo among them. His hard work led to the birth of his own place - Long Bridge Pizza - located in the Dogpatch neighborhood just south of downtown. If you miss the large, semi-greasy NYC-style slices from back East, you'll want to spend some time eating your way through his menu, which takes a more artisan approach to the standard slice.

Jenny Olbrich has had a multi-faceted career - from private chef to designer...eventually landing in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, at The Esters - a bar and restaurant with a tidy pizza program. She talked about her path, and how she managed to crank out hundreds of pies at a time in a kitchen the size of a walk-in closet.

This week, Steve takes the ferry from San Francisco's Ferry Building Market, for a peaceful 30-minute ride up to Larkspur, where Chef Mark Hopper has been working tirelessly on a pair of outstanding pizzas: one emerging from a wood-fired oven, the other a near perfect Sicilian square with lots of chew and crunch. Farmshop Marin is probably better known for their wood-fired pies, but you'd be a fool not to try the squares.

George Bumbaris has had more jobs than most pizza makers: home inspector, real estate broker, and professional cook after attending culinary school. But he tapped into his own Greek heritage to come up with a dough for a deep pan pizza unlike anything else in the country, at George's Deep-Dish. This is 3rd Wave deep-dish for sure, since Bumbaris is using an all-natural starter for his dough.

Four years ago, we had Thomas McNaughton on the show, talking about his new concept, Flour + Water Pizzeria in the Mission District in San Francisco. Since the pandemic, he and his co-Chef/Culinary Director, Ryan Pollnow, moved and expanded the operation, tweaking the recipe, and deciding to set up a commissary in the new store that will ultimately support additional stores. Meanwhile, they operate a sit-down pizzeria in front and a slice shop in the back. That’s where I met Pollnow, to talk about the evolution of their pizzeria, and how they nailed one of the best gluten free slices I’ve ever had.

The Mexico City pizza scene is still in its infancy. Most of the styles tend to follow the Neapolitan model - wood fired, high heat, etc. Ardente has two locations in CDMX and we visited their newest location in the Condessa neighborhood, where Alfonso Jarero has brought his expertise in gelato making and is now also making excellent pizzas.

When Nick Buckland and his partner got around to opening Yard Sale, on the outskirts of London, they were looking to try to improve upon delivery and take-out pizza (this was before Covid-19). Figuring that out has helped them succeed, as they now prepare to open their 8th Yard Sale Pizza. Steve talks to Nick about working with ingredients from nearby Italy, and how that may have shaped Londoner's thoughts about what pizza should be. He'll also talk about his unique take on a British pizza using a beloved ingredient.

Salvatore LoCascio has paid his dues. First in Italy, then in Chicago, working for the city’s best Neapolitan pizza makers. He’s now stationed at Coda di Volpe - one of only three VPN certified pizzerias in the city, where he’s adding a touch of his Sicilian heritage, and adding a new pizza to the traditional lineup.

Steve sits down with John Arena, a native New Yorker who moved to Las Vegas 40 years ago to make his name in pizza. What he learned along the way was invaluable, and he's taught a generation of young pizza makers how to navigate the business. As the owner of Metro Pizza, he's also overseen the growth of the industry in his adopted hometown, now host to the annual International Pizza Expo and the Las Vegas Pizza Festival.

Derrick Tung gave up med school, then a promising career in healthcare administration to pursue his love of pizza. He reached out Paulie Gee in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, seeking his advice, and it led to a partnership in Chicago. Tung has expanded beyond the store's usual wood-fired pies to include a remarkable Detroit-style that's winning awards.

Thomas McNaughton has had success with Flour + Water in San Francisco for more than a decade, but he wanted something more substantial than the delicate Neapolitan pies from that wood-burning oven. His latest - Flour + Water Pizzeria, in the Mission - emphasizes long fermentation, wet dough and electric ovens, to produce some glorious pizzas with exceptional crumb.

Katsuya Fukushima spent 15 years working for José Andrés in Washington D.C., and it allowed him to travel the world. But his upbringing in Hawaii also influenced his palate, and his Japanese heritage also plays a role on his menus. He now cooks Wafu - Japanese inspired Italian - at Tonari in D.C.'s Chinatown, where he and pastry chef Mary Mendoza have collaborated on a mentaiko corn Detroit style pizza that is just stunning.

Joe Quercia has worked hard his entire life. He started working at Freddy's Pizza in Cicero in 1968, at the age of 13, and never left. Quercia talks about his Neapolitan heritage, how he learned to speak English and then expand the offerings at his tiny store, while the neighborhood around him changed completely.

Ontario native Mike Lange was a graphic designer who happened to be backpacking in Australia when he met his girlfriend (a fellow Canadian). They decided to set up shop in her hometown of Calgary, where Noble Pie has been a hit almost since it opened. Demand these days is off the charts, for Lange's artisan thin pies, inspired by New York City pizza.

There is a lot of discussion in New York about where "Grandma style" pizza came from, but the truth is, this thin Sicilian style of pan pizza has been around for a hundred years. But a former cook from Umberto's came up with the official name while entering a contest while employed at King Umberto, a mile or so away. The rest is, well, a complicated history. Steve sits down with Giovanni Cesarano to talk Grandmas, traditional slices and a mind-bending Roman al Metro that we can't wait to get back and try again.

Ryan Baddeley is the owner of Pizzeria Badiali, a fantastic slice shop in Queen West, a hipster area in Toronto. We talked about the must-visit places in Toronto (sorry we didn't get to North of Brooklyn) but kudos to our friend Amy Rosen, who insisted we meet for a slice at Badiali. This is a unique pizza in a city full of Neapolitans.

When you're part of the Manresa group - a widely celebrated 3-star Michelin rated restaurant in Los Gatos, California - you focus on ingredients and technique. Avery Ruzicka has worked with Chef David Kinch for almost a decade, but over the past few years she's been focused on Manresa Bread, with three locations in Silicon Valley. At her Campbell, CA location, she does a "Pizza Night" on Wednesdays, selling an artisan Sicilian pan pizza; while it's on hiatus during the pandemic, she's hoping to bring it back at the end of June or in July. Steve Dolinsky spoke with her just before the lockdown.

Steve travels to Seattle to talk with former Chicagoan Dave Lichterman, a computer science engineer who worked for Amazon for about eight years before deciding to pursue his lifelong passion of pizza making. Dave has two businesses – Windy City Pie and Breezy Town Pizza – where he and his staff experiment with homemade giardiniera, cooked pineapple, sausage ground in-house and candied bacon as toppings, while also using all-natural sourdough starters and other artisan techniques to create their deep, pan pizzas.

Wylie Dufresne has spent his life and career in New York City. He worked for Jean Georges Vongerichten, ran notable restaurants like 71 Clinton Fresh Food and WD50, and was starting a doughnut business until the pandemic changed everything. Pizza saved him, and his creation - Stretch - has brought a new evolution to what "NYC Pizza" means.

Copeland Moore is the 4th generation at La Segunda Bakery, which was started by his great-grandfather in 1915 in Ybor City, near the port in Tampa Bay. It's here where Cubans, Spanish, Germans and Italians all settled together. The city was a huge cigar producer and gave birth to the Cuban Sandwich (but with the addition of Genoa Salami, which you don’t find in Miami). This melting pot really influenced the bread, the pastries and the pizza in the area. There are now a half dozen well-known bakeries in the area all offering slightly different versions of scachatta, but the OG is La Segunda.

We revisit L'industrie in NYC this week, after they came in 80th in the world from the 50 Top Pizza organization. We are revisiting this classic because they now have a second location in the West Village, but we spoke with owner Massimo Laviglia way back in 2020, when he was still finding his footing.

Mr. Mangieri is a two-time winner (#1 ranking) in the 50 Top Pizza list and is currently on the 6th iteration of hisUna Pizza Napoletana, now on New York's Lower East Side. He spent 9 years in San Francisco, with stints in New Jersey as well. But now Mangieri is firmly in control of his craft, limiting the offerings to just a half dozen each night with a few simple starters and a pair of desserts. It's truly a Neapolitan worth the journey.

Seaside, Florida is known for its pristine architecture and sandy beaches. "The Emerald Coast" - in Florida's Panhandle - sees a lot of tourists, especially between the towns of Destin and Panama City. But the team behind Bud & Alley's, a 35 year-old restaurant on the water, has also established a quaint pizza bar nearby. They sought help from a couple of Italian experts to create a Neo-Neapolitan pie amidst the ice cream shops and food trucks. Steve spoke with both the owner and the chef this week, about the challenges of creating these delicate, leopard-spotted pizzas, in a climate that can prove to be challenging yearround.

Steve talks with Arthur Bovino, the guy behind thepizzacowboy.com, @nycbestpizza and the driving force behind The Daily Meal's annual "101 Best Pizzas in America" list. They met at Leo in Williamsburg, to try some Roman pizza, and talk about the business of covering the pizza world in New York City.

Frank Pinello grew up in Brooklyn and Long Island, and aside from hearing it in his voice, you can tell how passionate he is about creating the best slices. His work with chefs like Nate Appleman and the opening team at Roberta's were seminal experiences, but it was when they handed him the reigns to Best Pizza in Williamsburg, that he really came into his own as a pizza maker.

Tim Semmler and his wife, Lydia, have been running Tinder Hearth Bakery from their home in rural Maine for the past 13 years. More recently, they've added pizza. Toppings depend on what their local farmer sells them. The flour is from Québéc and the starter is all-natural. If you're headed to Acadia National Forest, it's a must-stop.

The Federighis had successful careers in commercial production and modeling, but all of that changed during the pandemic, when they shifted more into their love of pizza making. Hopscotching around Chicago and the suburbs, making artisan, then Sicilian and finally Chicago thin (tavern style), they've opened one of the most in-demand pizzerias in the city - Pizz'Amici - which makes a textbook Old School Chicago thin pizza.

Brian Spangler has had a lot of jobs. Some in I.T., some in bread baking. But it's the four year period while working in rural Oregon that laid the foundation for what would become Apizza Scholls in Portland. We met Spangler in the hills of Montana - at The Resort at Paws Up - where he was tasked with recreating his long-fermented dough and baking pies in ovens he wasn't necessarily used to; no matter, he figured it all out and turned out some amazing pies.

Partners Hannah Ziskin and Aaron Lindell created two businesses during COVID: House of Gluten (Hannah) and Quarter Sheets Pizza Club (Aaron). Now the two have integrated both into a small shop in Echo Park, just off Sunset Boulevard, near Dodger Stadium in L.A. The pies are resplendent with soft crumb (made from various artisan flours) and sturdy crust, the result of an all-natural starter.

As a born-and-bred New Yorker (from Long Beach), Vito DeCandia was literally brought up in a pizzeria. He was stretching dough by the age of 12. His lifetime of baking eventually led him to the West Coast, where his wife was from. Two years ago he opened Angel City Pizza in Venice, where he continues to make what he knows: NYC style slices, squares, and even Grandmas! Vito will be one of 40 pizzerias participating at Pizza City Fest L.A. April 26-27. Get your tickets at pizzacityfest.com

Like several of Knoxville's best chefs and restaurants, owner Brian Strutz is an alum of Blackberry Farm's kitchens. A Dopo is an homage to a life-changing trip he took to Italy years ago, where all they had was an oven. Strutz still uses an all-natural starter and his staff pulls mozzarella curds each day. Serious Old School in Tennessee! NOTE: on this episode, we also mention Potchke, an Eastern European-inspired deli Strutz is involved in. His business partner Laurence Faber and wife Emily Williams are the creators of that concept.

Mike Keon and his business partner, Anthony Allen, founded Otto Pizza in 2009 in Portland, Maine. Over the past decade, they've expanded in New England, due in part to their creative take on toppings - including bacon, mashed potatoes and scallions, among others. Steve spoke with Mike just a few yards from the original store in downtown Portland.

There are several new books about pizza coming out - the Modernist Pizza series, most notably (and we'll have a separate show on that) - but Steve's latest work about Chicago history is also a must-have guide for any visitor. Meanwhile, Dan Richer (Razza, Jersey City, NJ) is about to launch his cookbook on Nov. 9. Steve talks Chicago tavern thin vs. deep-dish vs. stuffed, then he talks with Dan about how far down the rabbit hole he's gone on things like sauce matrices, calipers and cheese options.