Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper at spacecyber.com

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Tom's resume. He spent a few decades rising through the ranks and eventually served as president of Northrop Grumman’s aerospace unit before he moved into startupland.
• What he can talk about from his Northrop days (ie, what's been declassified) vs. what still requires a security clearance
• Air and space are the proving ground for autonomy technologies
• Why did the space company spin out of Sierra Nevada Corp. last year?
• Sierra Space's cap table and fortifying the balance sheet before a market downtown
• The space platform play...Dream Chaser is the transportation, Orbital Reef is the destination, and then there's all the space applications
• What's the best historical precedent or analogy for where the space industry is at in this moment in time?
• Tom's visions for the future, with a constellation of private space stations and thousands living and working in space
• Sierra's growth from 1,000 employees at the end of 2021 to 1,800+ now
• For All Mankind
• When is Tom going to space?

The two parts of the bio we discuss: 
1) "It is amazing to me that today we are flying at the same speed we were in 1958 when the Boeing 707 was introduced. In general aviation, the speed of the aircraft has only improved by 10% over 50 years."
2) "We will enable humanity to live, work, explore, and vacation in Space!"

...and more. There's plenty of mind-boggling bits baked into this conversation, from manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum to peering back in time with JWST to Tom's concept for an Asian fusion restaurant in low-Earth orbit.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro 

2:00 - Tom’s résumé

4:15 - Most guidance systems rely heavily on air and space

8:30 - Sierra Space spins out from Sierra Nevada 

9:50  - A **massive** $1.4B Series A

12:45 - Being a unique space and technology company

15:25 - Still bringing people back from space the same way we did in the ‘60s 

18:35 - Capturing Apple’s platform play 

20:10 - Sierra is building a value ecosystem 

22:05 - What makes the period of time we’re currently in so profound?

26:00 - Is “early internet age” the right analogy for space? 

28:29 - Low-cost transportation lowers barriers to LEO 

32:50 - Making low earth orbit (LEO) accessible and affordable 

37:15 - There’s something extraordinary about the Pale Blue Dot

40:10 - Understanding the significance of Earth

41:50 - ‘For All Mankind’ 

43:53 - When is Tom going to space?

*SHOW NOTES*

Tom's LinkedIn bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomvice/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

It’s not every day you get to hear space industry perspectives from a former Hollywood talent agent turned investor. Today we're joined by Mike Palank, General Partner at MaC Venture Capital, who shares his career path and insights into the world of VC. Mike, with a background in the entertainment industry, including working at WME as a talent agent, with Will Smith and co-founding MaC Venture Capital, brings a unique perspective on identifying talent and investing in innovative startups.

MaC Venture Capital, founded in 2019, focuses on early-stage investments, emphasizing diversity and unique backgrounds among its partners and portfolio. Our conversation delves into Mike's strategic vision and track record. We also explore:

• The transition from talent agent to venture capitalist and the skills that overlap
• Key investment areas within aerospace, defense, and diverse tech sectors
• The importance of diversity in the venture capital industry and how it impacts investment decisions
• What’s next in space investing

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:56 - Mike's background

07:23 - From talent agency to VC

11:07 - Spotting talent

13:33 - MaC's structure, investment thesis, and thoughts about space

26:00 - How to get up to speed on new industries and the state of startups in the current market as an investor

33:07 - Notable investments

44:02 - Common founder mistakes

51:24 - Mike's view on diversity in the space industry

57:22 - Hyped and overhyped sectors in the market

• Show notes •

MaC Venture Capital website — https://macventurecapital.com/

Mike’s socials — https://twitter.com/mpalank101

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today, Pathfinder turns the complexity up a notch by simultaneously welcoming two speakers onto the show. 

Matt Weinzierl and Brendan Rosseau research, write, and develop coursework at the intersection of space and economics. They teach MBA students at a business school just outside of Boston (why yes, we are indeed referring to Harvard Business School). 

Today’s episode is brought to you by Altek Space, which provides custom manufacturing of essential parts and components for rockets and satellites, including smallsats. Find out more at https://www.altek-inc.com/space

Why is HBS so invested in space?

As Matt and Brendan wrote in a widely read Harvard Business Review essay, ”Your Company Needs a Space Strategy. Now.” The two join Ryan today to discuss the thinking behind this theory, along with: 

• Space-for-space vs. space-for-Earth
• What types of students study space at HBS?
• The most encouraging signs of “innovism” on orbit
• Why we’re living through an inflection point in space
• Should we prioritize human spaceflight or automation?
• The chicken and egg problem facing space station developers
• Could the commercial space market be in the middle of a bubble?

…and more! Ryan quizzes the two on how their “space strategy” framework would apply to sectors ranging from semiconductors to consumer packaged goods, and probes for areas where the two disagree. 

You don’t want to miss this convo—it’s bound to shape how you think about the economics of space. 

Chapters

00:00 – Intro 

02:54 — Matt + Brendan bios

03:50 — how’d you land here?

08:59 — why HBS is teaching about space

12:28 — professionalization of the space industry 

14:18 — who’s taking space courses at HBS 

17:36 — space hiring from Big Tech? 

21:30 — the industry is at an inflection point

25:18 — “Your Company Needs a Space Strategy. Now.” 

29:43 — Applying that theory to e-commerce…

31:03  …consumer packaged goods, and…

32:37 …semiconductors

34:23 — So…what’s HBS’s space strategy?!

35:45 — Data, capabilities, resources, and markets

37:04 — Space-for-space vs. space-for-Earth

41:36 — Private vs. public players 

43:44 — What in the world is innovism? 

47:39 — KPIs for commercial success in space 

55:32 — Thoughts on the launch market 

1:02:35 — Commercial space bubble?

1:05:06 — Lightning round

About us

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning 2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings 3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons. 

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com.

For his first Pathfinder podcast of 2023, Ryan took a field trip to San Francisco to visit the 120,000-square foot digs of Astranis.

Today's episode is brought to you by Altek Space, a custom manufacturer of essential parts and components for rockets and satellites.

*SNEAK PEEK*

For the uninitiated, Astranis aims to build small, cost-effective GEO satellites that will beam targeted chunks of broadband service down to under- or unconnected parts of Earth.

The company got its start in 2016 and graduated from Y Combinator’s winter batch the very same year. Two years later, Andreessen Horowitz (or a16z) wrote its first check to a space startup when it led Astranis’s Series A. The space internet startup would later go on to raise $250M from the likes of BlackRock, Baillie Gifford, and Fidelity (i.e., blue-chip growth investors).

In the coming weeks, the satellite unicorn is preparing to launch its first MicroGEO satellite into a geostationary orbit roughly 22,000 miles above our head. That first MicroGEO bird will provide Alaskans with a significant connectivity boost.

The company has a lot more cooking, Astranis CEO and cofounder John Gedmark tells us on today’s episode.

Along with Arcturus, its Alaskan satellite, Astranis plans to launch four more on a Falcon 9 later this year. As we saw firsthand, Astranis is ramping up production and satellite testing at its sprawling facilities, which have housed World War II ship makers, Uber’s Advanced Technologies Group, and now, software-defined satellite makers

During our Pathfinder recording, Gedmark also broke some news about a key executive that Astranis recently hired. Read on for more. What else did we discuss? The value of GEO vs. LEO, bringing connectivity to Machu Picchu, buying an entire Falcon 9 rocket, use cases for space-based internet, geopolitics…and plenty more. Before we let him go, John also shared his personal 2023 goal, an under-the-radar sci-fi rec, and a very fun fact with us.

*CHAPTERS*

1:10 - Guest intro
2:01 - Astranis HQ
4:58 - Vocab
7:52 - Why GEO?
13:01 - Applying to YC
17:31 - The best Demo Day story you’ll ever hear
21:43 - Tech stack
27:13 - Engineering tradeoffs
29:50 - Business model
35:48 - Launching with SpaceX
40:40 - A big new hire
46:52 - Threat surface in GEO
55:13 - Who is the competition?

*SHOW NOTES*

John’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/gedmark 

Astranis’ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Astranis 

Astranis: https://www.astranis.com/ 

Payload’s Astranis coverage: https://payloadspace.com/astranis-microgeo-testing-complete/ / https://payloadspace.com/astranis-arcturus-qa/ / https://payloadspace.com/astranis-and-telesat-strike-90m-deal-to-expand-connectivity-in-peru/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 12,000+ decision-makers across commercial, civil, and military space. Payload began as a weekly newsletter sent to a handful of friends and colleagues. Today, we have three media properties and publish across multiple platforms. Our team is distributed across four time zones and two continents. We aim to inform but also educate and entertain, and we serve a highly concentrated audience of decision-makers in the commercial, civil, and military space sectors.

While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning https://payloadspace.com/

2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings

3) Parallax, our weekly science newsletter for the space industry, on Thursday afternoons https://parallax.beehiiv.com/

In this week's episode, and our second dispatch from back-to-back space conferences in Paris, Ryan sits down with Redwire CEO and Chairman Peter Cannito, followed by an interview with Al Tadros, Redwire's chief technology officer. Redwire is a full-stack space infrastructure company based in Jacksonville, Florida, and publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange ($RDW).

The first half of the podcast features our conversation with Peter, who is also an operating partner at AE Industrial Partners. The space-focused private equity player has more than $3 billion in assets under management and hatched Redwire in late 2020 by merging Adcole Space and Deep Space Systems, and has also backed Firefly, Sierra, and other big space names. With Peter, we discuss Redwire's M&A strategy, business roadmap, growth markets, investing in space, AE's central role in the space ecosystem, and the geopolitics of space. Peter has spent 25+ years in the defense, tech, and government contracting sectors, and was formerly the CEO of Polaris Alpha. He holds a bachelor's from U Delaware, an MBA from Maryland, and served as an officer in the US Marines.

The second half of today's episode features our conversation with Al, who makes strategic investments that support Redwire’s customer base, advance technology development, and further commercialization. Al has nearly three decades of experience as an aerospace executive and has straddled both business and technical leadership functions, which makes his perspective particularly unique and valuable. Prior to being named as CTO of Redwire earlier this year, Al was the company's chief growth officer and executive vice president of space infrastructure. Before Redwire, Al was VP of space infrastructure and and civil space at Maxar Technologies. Al holds a bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering and a master’s in mechanical engineering from MIT.

Today's episode of Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out SpiderOak’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro 
2:30 - Show begins with Peter
4:49 - International expansion 
7:08 - Square footage...correlated with company success? 
9:07 - Operator + investor experience in space
14:30 - Space macro discussion 
17:44 - Taking Redwire public via SPAC, and why not all space SPACs are created equal 
22:02 - Peter’s take on geopolitical trends shaping space, and a modern-day space race with China
26:27 - Al joins + tells us about the Redwire CTO role 
27:10 - His journey at Redwire and rising up the ranks 
33:00 - Redwire's technology portfolio 
35:07 - Robotics in space 
38:47 - Flight-proven hardware, structures on the ISS, etc. 
42:01 - Where is the European space sector headed?
45:00 - The space industry always has room for more fresh talent, including folks in non-technical roles

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish Payload, our flagship newsletter, from Monday to Friday; Pathfinder, and Parallax. Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry.

Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

You can subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at payloadspace.com

In this week’s Pathfinder pod, we bring in Karthik Gollapudi, CEO, and Austin Spiegel, CTO, of Sift, as they dive into the company's mission to build software tools for complex machines, with a focus on telemetry solutions. Sift’s platform enables end-to-end data ingestion, real-time analysis, and visualization, helping companies streamline the testing and operation of intricate hardware systems, such as spacecraft and rockets.

Karthik and Austin share the story behind Sift’s founding and highlight the key role telemetry plays in improving safety and efficiency for hardware engineers. 

We also cover:

• How SIFT automates data review and reduces testing time
• The challenges of managing large data volumes in aerospace and beyond
• How the company helps engineers identify anomalies and prevent failures
• The importance of real-time insights for complex hardware systems
• Their recent funding round led by Google Ventures

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:31 - What is Sift building?

04:18 - Origins

07:30 - Austin at Riot Games

10:52 - Product walkthrough

13:19 - Why is data ingestion so difficult?

19:30 - What is a company doing if they're not using Sift?

22:05 - How do you make sure that there's no data loss?

24:50 - What does a user experience look like?

27:44 - What does the demand look like for real-time telemetry?

28:57 - Competition

29:43 - Revenue model

31:56 - How Sift's tools help their customers

36:46 - What's next for Sift?

39:04 - What keeps you up at night?

44:56 - Long-term view

45:54 - Companies to be excited for

• Show notes •

Sift’s website — siftstack.com/

Sift’s socials — https://x.com/SiftStack

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Sid Dixit, former CTO of Maxar and a seasoned leader in the space industry. Sid's career spans pivotal roles at Planet, Amazon, and Maxar, where he has been at the forefront of satellite technology, artificial intelligence, and geospatial data platforms.

Our discussion delves into the transformative impact of generative AI and large language models on satellite imagery analysis, the evolving landscape of commercial and government demand for Earth observation data, and the potential commoditization of satellite imagery. We also explore:

– The role of SpaceX and its impact on the LEO market
– Challenges and opportunities for Earth observation startups
– The future of satellite imagery quality and its market needs
– Investment strategies within the industry
– Promising Earth observation startups
This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, a cloud-based platform that supports a wide range of operational procedures requiring extreme efficiency and control. Innovative teams at NASA, Blue Origin, Redwire, and Firefly Aerospace use it to plan, execute, and automate their most complex workflows. • Chapters • • Show notes • Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & Epsilon Ad

01:24 Sid's journey from Planet, Amazon, and Maxar

04:57 Sid's robotics work at Amazon

07:24 How Sid got back into Earth observation

08:21 Maxar's acquisition

11:11 Advent and BCI's end goal

13:20 State of Earth observation

18:50 SpaceX's potential impact on LEO

23:04 If SpaceX goes after remote sensing, what will happen to all the companies operating in LEO?

25:37 Commercial demand

28:31 Do you see imaging tech as improving marginally or step-wise?

34:14 Will AI help open up the commercial market?

41:05 Who's the winner when it comes to the use of models in EO?

45:07 Will satellite imagery become commoditized?

46:48 At what point will imaging quality improvements be enough?

49:03 If you were managing $1m, how much of it would go to EO?

51:20 EO startups to look out for

52:54 Overview

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome back Matt Gialich, cofounder and CEO of AstroForge, to discuss the company’s plans to mine platinum group metals from near-Earth asteroids and its recent Series A funding. 

In this episode, Matt provides updates on AstroForge’s upcoming missions, the challenges of developing a cost-effective method for extracting and refining space resources, and how the company is addressing the technical complexities of deep space exploration. He also delves into the specifics of the $40 million Series A round, which will support AstroForge's next two missions, and how the company is balancing risk with innovation to lower costs.

In addition, we cover:

• AstroForge’s approach to refining metals in space and their proprietary low-power refinery
• The economics of the asteroid mining market
• Lessons learned from previous mining efforts
• The importance of scalability and mission flexibility
• The regulatory landscape and its evolution as the industry grows

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:48 - Matt's background and AstroForge

01:52 - Platinum group metals and why we need to mine them

04:14 - Beyond just platinum mining

08:27 - Bird scooters to JPL

11:40 - What makes space mining companies fail and who are AstroForge's current competitors?

15:37 - How large is the PGM market today?

18:34 - Developments at AstroForge since July 2023

21:46 - Plan for Mission 2

23:32 - How do you choose (and image) an asteroid?

27:19 - What does the architecture of the end system look like

28:13 - Materials processing

28:51 - Technical challenges

31:08 - Cost vs Risk

36:32 - State of space mining regulation and how it will evolve

38:25 - How other countries are viewing space mining

44:18 - Plans with Series A proceeds

45:03 - Common investor misconceptions

48:53 - Government contracts

50:10 - Long- term vision

51:20 - Are we ready for a killer asteroid?

53:49 - Who's playing Matt in the movie about AstroForge?
 

• Show notes •

AstroForge’s website — https://www.astroforge.com/

Matt’s socials — https://twitter.com/MattGialich

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder features Colin Doughan, CEO of Gravitics, a Seattle-based startup that specializes in the development of modular space infrastructure to support the expansion of stations and orbital platforms. Their primary product is the StarMax module, which can be customized in various sizes to accommodate different launch vehicles and mission requirements.

Colin shares his journey into the aerospace industry and his vision for building real estate platforms in space. With a background that includes nearly 20 years at Lockheed Martin and founding Altius Space Machines (acquired by Voyager), Colin brings a considerable amount of experience in infrastructure development.

We explore:

• The approach Gravitics takes in developing scalable station modules
• The market potential for free-flying stations and the impact of new launch vehicle capabilities
• Operator vs builder model in space stations
• Challenges in scaling manufacturing and testing for space environments
• The future of artificial gravity and its importance for long-term space habitation

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & Epsilon ad

02:04 - Colin's background

03:23 - Colin's first business venture

04:02 - Why start a space station business?

05:25 - Evolution of the Gravitics's vision

06:57 - Zero G modules

07:36 - Business model

08:26 - Why not operate modules?

10:04 - How do you perceive the market opportunity for free-flying space stations?

18:19 - Design decisions

22:25 - Turning a competitor into a customer

25:02 - Gravitics's approach vs existing providers

26:14 - Is there enough capital and investors to sustain this market?

30:26 - Countries creating their own launch capabilities

33:24 - StarMax

35:44 - Insourcing vs outsourcing

36:52 - Scaling manufacturing

40:05 - Testing

42:50 - Technical challengers that keep Colin up at night

44:42 - Commercial and government traction

48:34 - Long-term view

50:09 - ETA for Elysium?

50:35 - Who's going to play Colin in the future movie about Gravitics?

• Show notes •

Gravitic’s website — https://www.gravitics.com/

Gravitic’s socials — https://twitter.com/graviticsinc

Colin’s socials — https://twitter.com/colindoughan

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Our guest this week not only has a PhD in theoretical astrophysics but is also a pilot, musician, entrepreneur, language enthusiast, and a thought leader on how humanity can create a better future for itself.  No, we’re not constructing a dating profile, but describing Casey Handmer, the founder of Terraform Industries, a startup focused on scaling technologies to produce cheap natural gas with sunlight and air. 

Today, Casey joins us not to talk shop about his company's innovations but to share his vast knowledge on a subject he's deeply passionate about—Starship, Starlink, and the future of space exploration. Casey has been a prolific writer on these topics, sharing his insights and analyses on his blog since first discussing Starship in 2019. He has a very clear message: the industry significantly underestimates what Starship is capable of and the impact it will have on society at large.

Additionally, Mo and Casey chat:

• The Artemis program and NASA’s future
• The role of Starlink in society
• Mars exploration and humanity’s future
• Energy production beyond fossil fuels
• The future of science fiction

And much, much more…this is one of the most special discussions we've had, so don't miss it.

This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, software for complex engineering, testing, and operational procedures. Learn more at https://www.epsilon3.io/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & Epsilon3 Ad

02:45 - Career arc and Terraform Industries

06:33 - Humanity will move beyond fossil fuels by 2040

09:33 - Everyone must read Casey’s blog

10:13 - Is Starship still misunderstood?

16:12 - In what ways does Starship challenge traditional design philosophies

19:33 - Launch capacity

22:25 - $10m launch costs

25:14 - Epsilon3 Ad Break

25:43 - HLS & why Artemis hasn't been redesigned

28:24 - Thoughts on Blue Moon

29:43 - Why does a non-Starship Artemis program not move the needle?

34:18 - Mars & NASA

36:47 - Is Mars a business?

37:55 - Startups building in this new regime

41:09 - Starship IFTs

42:36 - When will we see the first payload deploying Starship launch?

43:18 - Does the Starlink model work without Starship?

44:28 - Is the Falcon enough to replenish Starlink satellites?

45:24 - Will there be political support for a future with Starship?

52:05 - How will Starship affect the science fiction genre?

• Show notes •

Casey’s blog — https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/

Terraform’s website — https://terraformindustries.com/

Casey’s socials — https://twitter.com/CJHandmer

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s guest is Bill Perkins, a hedge fund manager, film producer, high-stakes poker player, and author of Die with Zero. If he wasn’t in those lines of work, Bill tells Ryan he’d be a farmer.

More importantly for our purposes, Bill is the founder of SkyFi. The startup doesn’t fly its own satellites, and is instead tackling what it sees as a software problem.

SkyFi is developing a clean, consumerized experience for buying satellite imagery through a web browser or smartphone app. Behind the scenes, SkyFi’s platform pulls from 70+ satellites and leverages partnerships with more than a dozen EO partners. The app is in beta, with a global launch slated for next year. The marketplace supports (or will support) high-res satellite imagery, night, hyperspectral, satellite video, SAR, and stereo. Prices start at $20 for an existing image and $175 for a new one.

This convo was a fun one that you won’t want to miss. Just don’t listen to this episode at 2X speed.

*CHAPTERS*

(02:39) Bill voted early

(05:17) Die with Zero

(08:12) Life as an energy trader, what types of data funds are buying to gain an investing edge, and how it all ties into the origin story of SkyFi

(15:02) Bill’s frustrations buying millions in satellite imagery—and the industry status quo in sales cycles, target customers, and user experience

(30:36) Is SkyFi a consumer-focused venture? Who will use the product? Why would anyone use it?

(33:20) Bringing on Luke Fischer and handing him the reins as CEO, raising venture money, and recruiting from non-traditional space backgrounds

(45:30) The pitch to partners and how SkyFi signs on satellite operators

(36:25) Putting satellite imagery, data, and analytics into the hands of the geniuses of the world will help us solve “intractable problems,” like pollution, deforestation, and illegal fishing

(50:04) Sci-fi, wakeboarding, aliens, and the answer to: “Why are you building an Android app?” (Editor’s note/trigger warning: Both Bill and Ryan use Androids.)

*SHOW NOTES*

SkyFi website: https://www.skyfi.com/

Bill's Twitter: https://twitter.com/bp22

SkyFi's socials: https://twitter.com/SkyfiApp | https://www.linkedin.com/company/skyfi-imaging/ | https://www.instagram.com/skyfi.app/

Die With Zero: https://www.diewithzerobook.com/welcome

Ryan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy

Payload SkyFi coverage: https://payloadspace.com/exclusive-skyfi-raises-7-15m/ | https://payloadspace.com/skyfi-beta-app/

Apply to be a SkyFi beta tester: https://r66ka677lo0.typeform.com/to/n1mWYCjZ

*ABOUT PATHFINDER*

Pathfinder is powered Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish:

1) 🚀 Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning
2) 🧑🏼‍🚀 Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings
3) 🌌 ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons.

Parallax is our new-ish weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

Kevin joined Planet last April to accelerate software and data product development (or help the company move “up the stack”). Before he worked in commercial space, Kevin held leadership roles at Silicon Valley mainstays that have become household names, like Twitter and Instagram. He managed products with hundreds of millions of daily active users.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity.

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Kevin’s journey from studying particle physics to Silicon Valley startups and quickly shipping code
• Twitter’s leadership taking a chance on Kevin and how he grew with the company from 2009 to 2016
• Working at an autonomous Instagram and eventually cofounding Meta’s cryptocurrency project
• What convinced Kevin to jump ship to the new space industry?
• How much of Kevin’s experience was transferable from the consumer social world to product at Planet?
• Selling to governments vs. commercial users
• The “one-to-many” model and what Planet does differently than competitors
• Going public via SPAC and the pressures of being publicly traded
• “Our growth is accelerating” and “we have a proven business model”
• Acquiring VanderSat and launching Planetary Variables
• Planet imagery shaping the general public’s understanding of the Ukraine war
• “Bringing transparency is a massive positive, even if sometimes that means you capture some of the bad things that happen in the world.”
• How does Planet prevent abuse or misuse of its data and imagery?
• What does Kevin wish he could change overnight in the EO industry?

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro 

2:00 - Rundown of Kevin’s résumé, from studying particle physics to quickly shipping code at startups and eventually running product at consumer apps that became household names 

4:19 - Joining Twitter in ‘09…and growing with the company until he departed in ‘16 

5:07 - Running product at Instagram, while the Facebook division was still relatively autonomous 

7:07 - What convinced Kevin to jump ship to the new space industry? 

9:11 - Launching what into space?! Unpacking the tech tailwinds powering the cubesat and smallsat revolutions

11:51 - A simple walkthrough of what Planet’s constellation does daily

13:30 -  the Silicon Valley-style startup product management playbook…What cringe “best practices,” if any, did Kevin take from consumer social to Planet? 

15:07 - Where is the EO (Earth observation) industry at today, in terms of maturity and adoption? 

18:01 - On selling to both governments and commercial users…and when the “flippening,” as Ryan calls it, may happen 

21:26 - Expanding on Planet’s “one-to-many” model 

24:20 - The trials and tribulations of being a publicly traded company

27:50 - Will SPAC turbulence have a lasting impact on future funding? 

30:00 - How Planet processes their data 

33:00 - Case study: VanderSat acquisition and Planetary Variables

35:23 - Switching gears to Ukraine, and Planet imagery’s role in shaping the world’s understanding of what’s happening on the ground 

36:40 - The value of the daily Earth-imaging scans, as it relates to Ukraine and Russian aggression

37:55 - The geopolitical value of unclassified commercial satellite imagery for governments, who can point to the data and say: “This happened. You don’t have to take our word for it.”

41:55 - Buzzfeed researchers noticing pixelated map tiles on Baidu, digging in to Planet data, and making an ugly discovery

43:45 - Mental health and content moderation

46:15 - What safeguards Planet puts in place to prevent abuse or misuse of its data 

48:30 - Genie in a bottle question…What’s one thing that Kevin wishes could change overnight in the EO industry? 

52:30 - Will more engineers follow in Kevin’s footsteps, and move from Big Tech companies to commercial space? 

1:00:06- Worlds colliding question…Will Elon end up owning Twitter?

*SHOW NOTES*

Kevin's Twitter handle: twitter.com/kevinweil
Check out Planet’s Snapshots newsletter: learn.planet.com/Snapshots_newsletter_Subscription.html
Via Planet CEO Will Marshall, announcing Kevin's hiring last March: planet.com/pulse/preparing-to-scale-planet-welcomes-kevin-weil-as-president-product-and-business/ - "It’s a delight that our business increasingly looks like that of a software company, with product features driven by software advances that deliver value on top of our satellite data. As Planet accelerates as a data and analytics company, we’re bringing on top Silicon Valley software talent to add to Planet’s team. Which brings me to Kevin.

Kevin is a proven leader with a track record of leading software and data product organizations through hyper-growth, and delivering market-making customer solutions — a mindset and body of experience that aligns perfectly with Planet’s high-growth business objectives.

Kevin has built and scaled teams and products at the world’s fastest growing and most consequential companies. Kevin was one of Twitter’s first 50 employees and ultimately became its SVP of Product, leading its consumer, developer, and monetization products as the company went public and scaled to over $2bn in revenue."

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

This week's Pathfinder podcast features Nate Hamet, cofounder and CEO of Quindar, a startup attempting to dramatically change satellite operations. Quindar's software suite simplifies satellite command and control, enhancing health, security, and connectivity management. 

With a rich background in satellite operations at notable companies like OneWeb and Orbital Effects, Nate's team uses their expertise to reduce human intervention and increase efficiency in satellite constellations. In addition, we discuss:

• Quindar’s origin story
• How mission management software simplifies satellite operations
• Fully autonomous satellite solutions
• The importance of space cybersecurity

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:22 - What is Quindar and what are you building?

03:14 - What is satellite command and control?

05:47 - Nate's background and how he started Quindar

10:04 - Why is cyber security important?

11:34 - How does the Mission Management Software simplify the operation of satellite constellations?

19:55 - Managing data

21:34 - How far away are we from fully autonomous solutions?

23:30 - How does Quindar make money?

25:08 - Use cases beyond space?

25:57 - Commercial and government traction

27:37 - What is Quindar's ideal customer?

29:14 - The onboarding experience

33:01 - Location and team

35:51 - KSAT integration

38:11 - Quindar's plan from recent funding

39:59 - What to look out for in the future

40:57 - The Star Trek vision

41:46 - What is Nate doing when he's not building Quindar?

• Show notes •

Quindar’s website — https://www.quindar.space/

Nate’ socials — https://twitter.com/NateHamet

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Last Friday, Payload moderated the “Beyond LEO” panel at the MIT Sloan New Space Age Conference in Cambridge. Joining us were: Will Hovik, engineering lead @ Honeybee Robotics; Kevin Duda, senior space systems manager @ Draper Laboratory; Forrest Meyen, cofounder and CSO of Lunar Outpost; and Blair DeWitt, the founder and CEO of Lunar Station.

Today's Pathfinder is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. Find out more at https://kepler.space/

• A sneak peek •

This discussion couldn’t have come at a better time. On Monday, ispace said its HAKUTO-R Mission 1 lander has entered orbit around the moon. And more “ships,” i.e., landers and rovers, are set to depart for the Moon in the coming months. Our Beyond LEO discussion centered around what comes next on, near, and around the Moon: robotic explorers, habitation modules, crewed missions, energy, lunar infrastructure, and in-situ resource utilization.

What follows are some takeaways from the panel.

$$$: Funding models changed drastically between Apollo and Artemis, and VCs can often miscalculate risk with lunar ventures. Duda estimated that NASA is paying an average of ~$1M per kilogram of payloads delivered to the lunar surface.

The new approach: Embrace failure, iterate rapidly, and buy down risk by sending multiple ships.

CLPS: The Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program is an on-ramp for NASA to support commercial players without taking over the mission. In theory this support could spur more innovation and commercial growth.

NASA: The agency is undergoing an organizational change, as it shifts from being a fully integrated operator to a customer.

Humans and machines: It’s not either-or. Striking a balance between automation and human presence is key as we return to the Moon, with robots carrying out preliminary groundwork and humans making high-level decisions and performing experiments on the surface.

Beyond LEO and lunar: Mars remains the ultimate goal of space exploration, with the Moon serving as a stepping stone to deeper space missions.

While our sights were set beyond LEO, the last decade in low Earth orbit offers lessons, both good and bad, for cislunar aspirants. LEO applications, such as satcom services or environmental monitoring, have thrived due to their direct impact on everyday life. NASA and cislunar players, it follows, should go to extra lengths to make the Moon relevant to the general public and explain how lunar exploration will benefit us back on Earth. “We don't really know what the lunar towns are gonna find,” DeWitt said, “but [they’ll] find something and it's gonna participate in helping us here on Earth."

• Chapters •

0:00 Intro & Kepler Ad 
2:11 Panel Intro 
7:36 Fundraising, capital formation, and partnerships 
12:44 How important that those first ships are successful? 
17:18 Role of NASA as a partner 
22:01 What are some pivotal technologies that are going to be used on the lunar surface? 
27:30 Automation vs crew exploration
32:15 What are the priorities for future Artemis crews? 
35:09 Positive takeaways from LEO 
37:24 Kepler Ad break 
38:12 Q&A

• Show notes •

MIT New Space Age — http://newspaceage.org/ 
Honeybee — https://www.honeybeerobotics.com/ 
Draper — https://www.draper.com/ 
Lunar Outpost — https://lunaroutpost.com/ 
Lunar Station — https://lunarstation.space/ 
CLPS — https://payloadspace.com/whos-who-lunar-landers-and-rovers/ 
Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/ 
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 
Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6
Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. 

We publish three properties:
1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 
2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 
3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Find out more about us at http://payloadspace.com/

Astra's first launch of NASA’s TROPICS satellites ended in failure this summer. Shortly thereafter, Astra scrapped all flights for 2022 and accelerated its pivot to a larger, more capable launcher. As it moves customer payloads to the Rocket 4.0 manifest, Astra says it will launch scientific spacecraft for NASA that are comparable to TROPICS payloads.

All the while, shares of Astra have been in free-fall: $ASTR is -90% YTD. Chris still sounded a confident tone, saying the company has the cash to get to Rocket 4.0. Plus, “we have a tremendous number of assets sitting behind me that we've been using our balance sheet to fund,” Chris told us.

*CHAPTERS* 

0:00 - Intro 
5:40 - Astra's garage origins and what's changed in the last five years 
9:43 - Falcon 9 → Falcon 9 .... and how Astra is responding to market demand in launch 
12:40 - What’s the delta in "the three Cs" as Astra moves from 3.0 to 4.0? 
16:39 - Chris dives into what’s needed for launching 4.0 
19:10 - How has Astra’s willingness to fail early and iterate helped them get to where they are today? 
26:10 - An evolving approach to manufacturing, production, and launch operations 
28:18 - The customer profile and civil, commercial, and military space split for Rocket 4.0 
31:47 - Take the Payload/SpiderOak space cyber survey 
33:38 - IR with institutions and retail investors 
37:46 - Ryan shares a Payload reader’s question (and concerns) about Astra's future 
40:27 - Could a sale be in the cards? 
44:32 - Where will Astra be 12 months from now? 
49:43 - Hottest take, or most contrarian view, on space

*SHOW NOTES* 

Astra’s website: https://astra.com/ 

Chris’ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kemp 

Astra’s investor updates: https://investor.astra.com/static-files/6492bebb-0313-4b4b-a52a-da29428239d9 | https://investor.astra.com/news-releases/news-release-details/astra-announces-spacecraft-engine-contract-airbus-oneweb 

Astra’s Keynote Day: https://astra.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Astra-Spacetech-Day-Keynote-2022.pdf 

*ABOUT US* 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons. 

Parallax is our new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more at www.payloadspace.com

Relativity Space CEO Tim Ellis knows what went wrong during Terran 1’s first flight—and he shared with Payload why he is confident the same thing won’t happen to the startup’s Terran R rocket.

What’s next: After the March flight, Relativity announced that it was scrapping Terran 1 development to focus solely on its larger Terran R vehicle.

Ellis emphasized that this shift is not merely about scaling size, but also better aligning with market demands ($1.8B Terran R pipeline) and the broader vision of the company.

Overall R&D costs should be in the ballpark of ~$1B, Ellis estimated, adding that it is designed to be reusable from the start and carry 23,500 kg to LEO.

Brand awareness: In an industry dealing with expensive, long-term projects (i.e., space), it's crucial to inspire and motivate people by focusing on high-effort, creative presentations, Ellis said. The aim is to make Relativity not just a rocket company but a brand that resonates with a broader audience. And music—particularly electronic music—plays a role in the brand's energy, reflecting Ellis's personal tastes.

Listen to Pathfinder #0071 for more on Relativity’s future on Mars, whether there’s a rocket larger than Terran R in Relativity’s future, the long-term strategy for 3D printing, and much more.

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

01:09 - The night of the Terran 1 launch

05:11 - What went wrong?

10:11 - Why not launch Terran 1 again?

15:18 - Are investors okay pushing out an orbital proof point?

20:38 - Terran R tech specs

29:05 - SpiderOak Ad break

29:52 - Milestones for Terran R

34:31 - Terran R's manufacturing cadence at scale

37:46 - Terran R R&D costs (vs Falcon 9)

46:13 - 3D printing the Terran R

51:34 - The future of 3D printing

58:32 - Relativity's marketing strategy

01:09:53 - Heavier than Terran R

01:14:48 - Relativity & Mars

01:15:22 - Tim's favorite musical artists

• Show notes •

Relativity's website — https://www.relativityspace.com/

Relativity's socials — https://twitter.com/relativityspace

Tim's socials — https://twitter.com/thetimellis

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today, the Pathfinder podcast brings you a conversation with Kirk Konert, a partner at AE Industrial Partners (AEI) focusing primarily on space and defense. Kirk joined AEI in 2014 just as the firm was institutionalizing and scaling its investment offering. Before AEI, Kirk worked at Sun Capital Partners, a private equity firm specializing in leveraged buyouts, and at Wells Fargo’s Industrials Group.

AE Industrial Partners is a FL-based PE firm that focuses on aerospace, defense and government services. It launched its first fund in 2014 and has since grown to over $5.5B of assets under management (AUM).

Kirk joins us on the show today to discuss:

• The history of AEI and the evolution of its strategy
• Why private equity is a compelling tool in this market
• What AEI looks for in an investment
• Portfolio company synergies
• Fundraising predictions for the industry
• And much more…

Today’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters •

00:00 An introduction to Kirk and private equity

03:22 History of AE and its evolution/strategy

05:47 Kirk's career arc through joining AE

09:41 AE's different investment strategies and how they interrelate

13:20 Categorizing the space industry as an investment

15:52 What do you look for in an investment?

26:13 What drives success and failure of management teams

29:56 SpiderOak Ad Break

30:47 Fundraising prediction for the aerospace industry

34:22 How does a founder with 12 months of runway navigate the market?

35:59 Predicting when the market for IPOs will recover

41:52 Geopolitical tailwinds for space companies

45:16 Advice for a new investor looking to generate the most alpha

47:38 What drive's AE's success?

49:48 Starship prediction?

• Show notes •

AE Industrial Partners - https://www.aeroequity.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. 

Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

The clock is ticking on Voyager’s aspirations in LEO.

In 2021, the Denver-based space exploration company announced its goal to launch a commercial space station by 2028, three years ahead of the ISS retirement. Clay Mowry, the chief revenue officer of Voyager Space and one of the driving forces behind that vision, joins Pathfinder this week to dive into the company’s plans to build infrastructure in Earth orbit. 

The LEO significance: With the ISS bowing out, LEO-based ventures like Voyager’s Starlab are poised to fill a gap in LEO, though they aren’t the only ones chasing that goal. Other companies like Axiom, Sierra Space, and Northrop are working in partnership with NASA to capture the billions of dollars spent on the ISS every year. 

The focus of Starlab, which is partially funded by a $160M space act agreement with NASA, will be on research applications, rather than tourism. The station is designed to fit on a single launch, outfitted on the ground with all the research equipment needed for its customers. It’s expected to be able to hold four people and will be used to conduct scientific research.

The company recently announced a collaboration with Airbus Defense and Space. The international joint venture will be based out of the US, but features a European arm focused on serving the European Space Agency (ESA) and its member space agencies.

A sneak peak…

Before taking up the role of CRO in January 2022, Mowry made instrumental contributions at Blue Origin and oversaw operations at Arianespace, Inc. Beyond Voyager, Mowry's influence extends to the International Astronautical Federation, an international non-governmental organization (NGO) that was founded in 1951 to promote the peaceful use of space. In addition to Voyager’s future, we chat:

• Clay’s time at Arianespace and Blue Origin
• Why Starlab is critical to our future in space
• The partnership with Airbus
• Cultural changes in the space industry
• The IAF and its mission
• And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

02:19 - Clay's background and interest in space

07:20 - From Arianespace to Blue Origin

11:27 - The first New Shepard Auction

14:08 - Role as CRO at Voyager

16:08 - Is Voyager a holding company?

16:48 - Brief background on Dylan Taylor

18:45 - Who convinced Clay to join Voyager?

20:08 - What is Starlab?

28:20 - Partnership with Airbus

31:21 - SpiderOak Ad

32:09 - The case for private space stations

40:19 - How heavy launch will change mass and design constraints for the industry

43:06 - Competitive landscape

46:06 - What is the IAF?

49:33 - Biggest cultural changes in space

51:17 - When do you think New Glenn will fly?

• Show notes • 

Voyager's website — https://voyagerspace.com/

Clay's socials — https://twitter.com/claymowry

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Pathfinder is shaking things up for the next two weeks with a special pod series on the State of the Space Industry. In each episode, you’ll hear from two members of Payload’s editorial staff on key trends, exclusive interviews, and insights shaping the industry. 

This week? Launch & OSAM, featuring Payload’s Managing Editor Jacqueline Feldscher and Senior Space Reporter Tim Fernholz. Highlights from the discussion include:

Launch

• Launch cadence + increasing demand
• Role of launch providers and competition
• Challenges including space debris and regulation
• Advancements in reusability

OSAM

• The OSAM chicken-and-egg problem
• The role of government partnerships and regulations
• Key technologies required for OSAM
• Recent developments and upcoming missions, including Northrop Grumman's MRV mission, Astroscale's ADRAS-J mission, and SpaceX's Starship refueling demonstrations

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). Be sure to check out the Italian Pavilion  in South Hall (Booth 603) during Space Symposium!

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & ITA Ad

01:35 - The state of launch in 2023

04:14 - Peter Beck & Rocket Lab

06:31 - Tory Bruno & ULA

11:43 - Tim Ellis & Relativity Space

14:09 - Make or break in launch

15:27 - Government’s perspective on launch outside SpaceX

17:46 - What Jacqueline is excited for in 2024

19:07 - Blue Origin & ULA

21:41 - Tim Fernholz!

22:28 - OSAM. What is it and what companies fall underneath the OSAM umbrella?

24:22 - Core capabilities

25:19 - OSAM market in 2023

25:59 - Challenges of building

27:10 - Gaps in technology

29:53 - Should startups be investing in OSAM technology?

32:21 - How integral is the government in developing OSAM?

34:13 - Who is setting standards?

35:42 - OSAM 1

37:56 - What Tim is excited for in 2024

• Show notes •

Jacqueline’s socials — https://twitter.com/jacqfeldscher

Tim’s socials — https://twitter.com/TimFernholz

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

San Francisco-based venture capital firm, Bessemer Venture Partners, is diving into defense technology, with Payload securing the first interview to discuss the firm's new strategy with Partner Tess Hatch. Despite the firm's historical successes with space companies such as Terra Bella (formerly Skybox), Spire, and Rocket Lab, they are cautiously awaiting a new technological catalyst before making further industry investments.

Meanwhile, Tess has turned her attention to the defense sector highlighted in the firm’s recent Bessemer's defense tech roadmap. She highlights AI/ML solutions and autonomous systems as critical investment areas, aiming to influence the future of national security significantly.

Tess joins us to recount her transition from an aspiring astronaut to a deep tech investor. In addition, Mo and Tess discuss:

• Bessemer’s early space thesis
• A breakdown of defense tech
• The concept of “dual use”
• Tech shaping the future of national security
• Challenges to defense investing

And much, much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

02:15 - Tess's career arc

04:06 - Tess’s transition from engineer to investor

06:27 - High capex in deep tech investing

09:04 - BVP’s investment strategy

15:59 - Space industry today and future predictions

18:37 - New investors in the space industry

21:07 - A third catalyst?

23:41 - Bessemer's defense tech roadmap

26:28 - How does Bessemer differentiate itself

28:11 - How do you define defense tech?

30:43 - Concept of dual use

32:21 - Reality of dual use

35:12 - Challenges of defense tech investing

38:41 - Future opportunity in national security

40:53 - Liquidity in defense tech

42:48 - Who should partner with Bessemer?

45:08 - Favorite war movie/book

• Show notes •

BVP’s Defense Tech Roadmap — https://www.bvp.com/atlas/roadmap-defense-tech

BVP’s socials — https://twitter.com/BessemerVP

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

This week’s Pathfinder podcast features Chris Kemp, the founder and CEO of Astra, the publicly-traded launch company based out of Alameda, CA that went public via SPAC in the summer 2021. 

Since then, Astra's valuation has seen a dramatic decline, plummeting from a peak of approximately $4B to a mere $67M today. Chris paints a vivid picture of two contrasting narratives. On one hand, there's a satellite propulsion business, acquired through the purchase of startup Apollo Fusion, with a 278-engine backlog valued between $70M and $83M (based on an average selling price of $250-300K). This business has a distant, yet potential opportunity to secure contracts that could significantly change its trajectory. In contrast, the launch business is in jeopardy as capital evaporates. Astra's Rocket 4 must not only launch successfully but also prove its consistency to secure significant commercial deals. 

Many of our listeners are well-acquainted with Astra's struggles, given the numerous reports on the company's launch failures and recent wave of departures. Today, our conversation with Chris primarily focused on the future of Astra and how to think about what upside case may remain for the business. We chat: 

• Rocket 3 vs Rocket 4: why Rocket 3 failed and the lessons applied to Rocket 4
• The status of commercial and government contracts 
• The state of financing for launch companies 
• Valuing Astra’s satellite propulsion business 
• Key lessons learned as CEO 
• What does the future hold for Astra? 

And much more… 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Introduction 

00:56 - Current state of Astra 

03:04 - Origins of the business model 

07:26 - Key challenges today 

11:49 - Rocket 4's specs 

16:13 - Contracts with NASA/Space Force 

17:09 - Improving reliability from Rocket 3 to 4 

21:30 - Rocket 4 engines 

24:24 - Importance of strategic partnerships 

29:07 - Astra's manufacturing facility 

30:03 - What would you have done differently? 

33:25 - Bull-case for the prop business 

39:15 - Current financial health 

41:27 - Team construction and retention 

44:10 - What is the investment case for Astra today? 

47:03 - Lessons learned as CEO 

49:57 - Conclusion

• Show notes •

Astra website — https://astra.com/

Chris’s socials — https://twitter.com/kemp

John Walker's "A Rocket a Day Keeps the High Costs Away" — http://www.astronautix.com/a/arocketadayhighcostsaway.html

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

On today’s episode of Pathfinder, we’re joined by Tim Ellis, the CEO and cofounder of Relativity Space. Tim was in his twenties when he started Relativity Space with cofounder Jordan Noone six and a half years ago.

Fast forward to today. Relativity’s 3D-printed Terran 1 rocket is at the pad in Cape Canaveral and an orbital launch is “weeks away,” Tim tells us.

Relativity also recently announced that it’s secured more than $1.2B+ worth of launch agreements for the forthcoming, fully reusable Terran R rocket. There are more customer contract announcements to come, Tim says. In fact, just since we recorded 12 days ago, Relativity announced a highly ambitious commercial Mars mission with Impulse Space.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity.

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Tim’s non-linear path into aerospace at USC, where he was part of the first student group to launch a rocket to space and interned back-to-back-to-back at Blue Origin
• Then, Tim and Jordan would go on to get accepted into Y Combinator, cold-email Mark Cuban, and successfully pitch their pre-revenue, pre-product startup to other big investors.
• Relativity is scaling headcount quickly. Relativity had 100 employees before Covid; it now has 850 and expects to hit 1,000 soon.
• The company is also ramping up production, having expanded into a 1M square foot facility in Long Beach, CA. “Our momentum towards Terran R is significant,” Tim says.
• We walk through the unique parts of Relativity’s rocket-making stack, from propulsion to reusability to additive manufacturing.
• 3D printing is “the holy grail of automation technologies for aerospace,” Tim opines, and Relativity’s 3D printing efforts span a few hundred employees. Eventually, the company’s 3D printers may be useful in other industries.
• We ask Tim how he’s navigating market turbulence and whether Relativity A) has taken a valuation haircut, B) will need to raise again soon, or C) if it ever considered going public via SPAC.
• Tim shares his thoughts on the economics of launch and where the market is saturated vs. undersupplied.

…and much more. Over the course of an hour, our conversation took us from writing novels and Fight Club to interplanetary travel and chilling on Mars with a Corona. We hope you’ll learn as much as we did.

*CHAPTERS*

00:00 - Intro

1:23 - Settling Tim's age, once and for all

5:03 - A non-linear path into aerospace and Tim's passion for screenwriting and cinema

9:51 - Joining USC Rocket Lab

11:20 - Interning at Blue Origin back-to-back-to-back

12:48 - What % of Relativity's employee base previously worked at SpaceX or Blue Origin?

14:02 - "Several hundred person effort" working just on 3D printing ... and @ 15:43 the perks of 3D printing, "the holy grail of automation technologies for aerospace" 

17:32 -  How the hell did you get Y Combinator to accept a rocket company? 

18:36 - Incorporating, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, Relativity's Y Combinator cohort, and the YC Mob 🙃

21:07 - How does a pre-revenue, pre-product rocket startup sell investors and what does it point to as a sign of progress or traction?

23:23 - Setting the scene for Relativity's first orbital launch attempt with the Terran 1 rocket from Cape Canaveral 

28:40 - Relativity's tech stack 

36:25 - Would Relativity consider selling 3D printers or making other large 3D-printed structures? 

38:25 - Surveying the launch landscape...Tim shares his thoughts on where the launch market is still undersupplied

43:43 - Relativity's $1.2 billion Terran R backlog is growing, with more commercial contracts to be announced 

48:07 - How is Relativity navigating market turbulence and a potential R-word (recession)?

52:35 - Tim's testimony to Congress & recruiting for the commercial space industry and building mission-driven teams 

54:08 - The cast of characters attracted by making life multiplanetary 

58:07 - What's that behind Tim? 

58:44 - How does Tim use Twitter? 

Relativity is scaling headcount quickly. Relativity had 100 employees before Covid; it now has 850 and expects to hit 1,000 soon. 

1:00:00 - Getting swole like Jeff Bezos and staying in touch with his former boss

1:01:06 - Does Tim have plans to travel to the Red Planet one day himself?

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Nuclear technology is having its moment, according to Zeno Power cofounder and CEO Tyler Bernstein.

NASA has used radioisotope tech since the 1960s, but the systems have historically been too expensive and heavy to be widely used. Zeno Power, which develops radioisotope power systems (RPS) that are lighter, more efficient, and more cost-effective than legacy systems, is trying to change that.

How it works? Zeno Power's RPS works by converting the heat from decaying radioisotopes into electricity. Its initial system uses Strontium-90 (Sr-90), an abundant and affordable fuel that has been used in thousands of legacy RPSs. The core innovation is in the fuel design and shielding technology, a key issue given Sr-90’s radioactive properties.

The company has had a recent string of commercial successes, including a number of unannounced contracts, but some of the public wins are:

• A $30M STRATFI contract awarded in May to build a radioisotope-powered satellite for the U.S. Air Force by 2025.
• A $15M NASA Tipping Point award to develop an Americium-241 (Am-241) radioisotope Stirling generator (RSG) for long-duration lunar missions.

This week’s Pathfinder episode features Tyler Bernstein, Zeno Power’s CEO. The company was founded in 2018 by Tyler and two other Vanderbilt undergrads after working on a project to design a nuclear reactor for a Boeing 777. 

Today, Mo and Tyler discuss:

• Zeno Power’s origin story
• A brief history of nuclear power in space
• The benefits of using radioisotope power systems
• The future of fission and fusion
• And much more…

This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, software for complex engineering, testing, and operational procedures. Learn more at https://www.epsilon3.io/

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and Ad Break

01:46 - Who is Tyler Bernstein and what is Zeno Power?

02:53 - Nuclear powered 777

05:42 - How are nuclear reactors used today?

11:42 - A history of nuclear in space

14:04 - Nuclear regulations

17:48 - Zeno's core product and customer

21:33 - Disposal and containment during development

22:44 - Cost effectiveness vs traditional power systems

24:43 - Epsilon3 Ad Break

25:12 - Future of nuclear in space

28:37 - Customer targets outside of space

29:41 - Zeno's competitors

31:56 - Building a team around nuclear

38:05 - Zeno's products in 10 years

39:55 - State of nuclear energy today and its regulations

43:57 - Fusion vs Fission

46:19 - Other exciting space companies?

• Show notes • 

Zeno Power's website — https://www.zenopower.com/

Zeno Power's socials — https://twitter.com/zeno_power

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

The US manufacturing industry needs a major overhaul and companies like Machina Labs are helping drive that change. Today’s Pathfinder episode features Ed Mehr, cofounder and CEO of Machina Labs, a startup integrating the latest advancements in robotics and AI to construct next-generation factories. Mehr's prior experience at Relativity includes overseeing the development of Stargate, which was the world’s largest 3D printer at the time.

Machina is focused on creating flexible manufacturing systems, where design and material changes can be made seamlessly without the need for extensive hardware alterations. This flexibility is primarily enabled by advanced robotics and AI, encapsulating Mehr's vision of an agile, responsive manufacturing environment. Machina’s flagship product, the "Robotic Craftsman," epitomizes this concept, combining the dexterity of human craftsmen with sophisticated machine learning algorithms.

The conversation today delves into the challenges of traditional manufacturing and explores the impact of Machina’s innovations on the space industry. In addition, Ed and Mo discuss:

• Machina’s origin story
• The state of the US manufacturing industry
• Common startup mistakes when building factories
• Elon’s manufacturing algorithm

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad 

02:02 - What is Machina Labs? 

03:07 - The Falcon 9 issue 

05:26 - Key product offerings 

08:05 - Origin of roboforming 

09:16 - Machina’s roboforming 

14:24 - Importance of manufacturing in the US 

18:06 - Keynote of the business 

20:10 - Industries of focus 

24:57 - The business model 

28:28 - SpiderOak Ad Break 

29:15 - Measuring the market size 

31:44 - The Machina team 

33:12 - Partnership with Nvidia 

34:49 - Common manufacturing mistakes 

37:48 - Machina’s competition 

41:23 - Machina Labs's place in the market 20 years from now 

44:02 - Evolution of aerospace manufacturing in the next decade 

45:37 - Favorite new manufacturing technologies

• Show notes •

Machina Lab's website — https://machinalabs.ai/ 

Machina Lab's socials — https://twitter.com/MachinaLabs_ 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Welcome to Pathfinder, a new weekly show where Payload Managing Editor Ryan Duffy sits down with the shot-callers in space to discuss all the top news and trends beyond Earth. 

In Pathfinder #0002, Ryan sits down with Rob Meyerson, the founder and CEO of Delalune Space and former president of Blue Origin.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space cybersecurity white paper here.

*ABOUT ROB MEYERSON*

While at Blue Origin, Rob reported directly to Jeff Bezos, oversaw Blue’s growth from 10 to 1,500 employees, and managed development of New Shepard, among many other programs. Rob has also worked at NASA and Kistler Aerospace.

Delalune is a management consulting firm serving the aerospace, mobility, technology, and financial services sectors. At Delalune, which literally means “of the moon,” Rob backs and advises leading aerospace startups, including Axiom Space.

While he spends plenty of time in the private markets, Rob also sits at the junction of space and public capital markets. He is the CEO of C5 Acquisition Corp., a blank-check company seeking a SPAC merger “at the leading edge of national security innovation in space, cybersecurity, and energy transition.” Early on in the discussion, Rob shares his thoughts on why investors would be ill-advised to avoid investing in space during our current market downturn.

Later on, Rob and Ryan drill down on the products and services NASA is looking to buy rather than build or operate itself. Rob also surveys the technologies we’ll need to build, buy, deploy, and launch to ensure an expeditious return to the Moon and sustained presence on the lunar surface.

We touch on building out the lunar economy, then consider all the other puzzle pieces that humanity will need to assemble to not only go back to the Moon, but also set the stage for a lasting multiplanetary future.

*CHAPTERS*

1:53 - The NS-21 crewed spaceflight mission 

4:00 - Joining Blue Origin at the tail end of its think tank stage 

4:24 - Reporting directly to Jeff Bezos, Rob's expansive portfolio of duties, and scaling headcount from 10 to 1,500

7:14 - Blue in stealth mode 

9:00 - After Beal Aerospace shut down, "the most recent story about commercial space was a negative one."

11:27 - Pockets of talent density in commercial space across the US

15:55 - Why we'd be ill-advised to stop investing in space during a potential market pullback

19:08 - Defense/aerospace industrial base discussion 

22:32 - Space market assessment, data, and NASA procurement opportunities for startups

27:45 - What's the killer app for low-Earth orbit? 

30:15 - The need for reentry vehicles from low-Earth orbit and return services to Earth 

31:38 - Cost-plus contracting 

35:02 - NASA planting a flag on the moon, and staying, and what that might mean for commercial space entrepreneurs

36:11 - Lunar services and businesses that excite Rob

38:49 - Overhyped/underhyped aspects of space 

41:06 - Rob's advice for students looking to break into the space industry

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Tony Frazier, LeoLab’s newly appointed CEO, to discuss the critical role the company plays in building a living map of orbital activity for space operations. With over $120M of private capital raised, LeoLabs has continued to expand its global network of ground-based radars, currently cataloging over 22,000 objects in LEO. Tony shares his journey from a 13-year career at Maxar to joining LeoLabs, driven by his belief in the company's mission to enhance space safety and security.

We explore Tony's background, including his experience managing billion-dollar P&L operations at Maxar and his involvement with Iridium, which shaped his understanding of the risks posed by debris. We also discuss:

• The founding story of LeoLabs
• The unique advantages of ground-based radar network compared to other tracking methods
• The exponential growth in orbital objects
• Scaling a radar system to meet the demands of a rapidly proliferating LEO environment
• The future of space traffic management and the impact of regulation

And much, much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:33 - What is LeoLabs?

01:34 - Where is LeoLabs based and how long have they been around?

02:42 - How did Tony end up at Leo Labs?

04:26 - The mission

08:04 - Why LeoLabs hired Tony?

09:55 - How important is debris and traffic management?

13:52 - The Kessler Syndrome

15:48 - LeoLabs' architecture

23:08 - Competitor differentiation

25:29 - Advantages of a space-based architecture

28:14 - Scaling

30:09 - 3rd-party data integration

32:12 - Current demand for situational awareness and future predictions

35:06 - Market catalysts

39:38 - How LeoLabs makes money

41:41 - Data tracking for the lowest tier subscription

44:26 - Government vs commercial bookings

44:59 - What makes LeoLabs attractive to investors?

48:16 - Is the goal to become a public company?

49:26 - Killer asteroids

50:07 - Favorite space-related media

• Show notes •

LeoLab’s website — https://leolabs.space/

LeoLab’s socials — https://twitter.com/LeoLabs_Space

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Leon Alkalai, former Technical Fellow of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and now the founder of Mandala Space Ventures. Having spent 32 years at JPL, we dive into his leadership roles for the GRAIL mission in 2007, which mapped the Moon's gravitational field and the Insight Lander in 2012, a first of its kind mission aimed at exploring Mars' deep interior. Leon now runs Mandala, a combination of space venture studio meets venture fund. 

In addition to all this, Mo and Leon discuss: 

• The history of NASA JPL 
• Commercializing JPL technologies 
• The venture studio approach to space 

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak 

01:20 - Leon's PhD 

01:49 - How did Leon end up at JPL 

04:08 - Freshly minted PhD. What's next? 

07:55 - JPL & NASA 

11:51 - Missions at JPL Leon is most proud of 

17:34 - Recovering the gravity of the Moon 

21:39 - SpiderOak Ad 

27:52 - Mandala Space Ventures 

32:08 - The venture studio model 

35:15 - Most value added to businesses 

37:13 - How to view the industry 

39:48 - What you look for in a company and what are some red flags? 

41:21 - How does Leon build a team 

43:59 - Technology that excites Leon 

48:42 - A Starship future 

• Show notes • 

Mandala's website — https://mandalaspaceventures.com/

Leon's socials — https://twitter.com/DrLeonAlkalai 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

On today’s episode, we sit down with AJ Piplica, cofounder and CEO of Hermeus Corporation. The Atlanta startup aims to make hypersonic air travel a reality before the decade is out. AJ dialed into Pathfinder straight from the belly of the beast, i.e., Hermeus’s factory in Atlanta, which was abuzz with employees and machines whirling in the background. 

Today’s episode is brought to you by Altek Space.

What is Hermeus up to?

The Hermeus team is focused on shrinking the globe by developing the world’s fastest passenger aircraft. The timeline for that = 2029. In the meantime,  Hermeus recently selected Pratt & Whitney’s F100 turbofan for integration into its hypersonic engine, a move that the company claims will save it billions in R&D costs and years of schedule. 

Also in recent memory, Hermeus successfully demonstrated a turbojet to ramjet transition with its Chimera engine. Finally, Hermeus raised a $100M Series B last March to develop Quarterhorse and Darkhorse, its first and second hypersonic vehicles.

Among other things, AJ and Ryan covered:
— The startup’s origin story
— The roadmap: Chimera → Quarterhorse → Darkhorse → Halcyon
— What’s the state of hypersonics today?
— How the Halcyon passenger aircraft will be designed
— Derisking the business plan through iterative development and buying off the shelf
— Lowering the cost of aircraft certification
— Building in public and investing in marketing early on
— Atlanta’s talent density and Hermeus’s recruiting efforts

Chapters

02:40 – Welcome, AJ 
06:02 – Hermeus's beginnings 
10:49 – Rockets and ICBMs fly at hypersonic speeds...what's new here? (+ nice pun)
14:24 – Why do planes fly slower today than decades ago?
 20:14 – Chimera engine and commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) parts
 21:31 – Watch Chimera go turbojet –> ramjet 🔥🔥🔥
24:28 – AJ's take on a hypersonics gap between the US and near-peer adversaries
32:00 – How'd do you get VCs to bet on you so early on? 
37:11  – Chimera → Quarterhorse → Darkhorse → Halcyon
47:29 – UX for hypersonic airliners 
49:03 – How do you back into your estimate that hypersonics could add $4T in GDP?!
51:46 – All-in costs of bringing Halcyon to market
54:05 – Outmaneuvering commercial competitors / defense primes
57:19 – Status quo in government procurement 
59:10 – Why build in public and invest in marketing so early on?  
1:02:42 – Talent density in Atlanta  

About us

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning 2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings 3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons. 

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com.

This week on Pathfinder, we are joined by Chris Morales, Partner at Point72 Ventures, for a discussion on venture capital’s role in shaping the space and defense technology landscape. 

In this episode, Chris provides a detailed overview of Point72 Ventures’ strategic approach to investing, drawing on his background as a former naval officer and his experience in venture capital. The conversation covers key trends and challenges facing the space and defense sectors, with a focus on how startups can navigate this evolving ecosystem.

In addition, we discuss:

• Point72 Ventures’ investment framework and focus on emerging technologies critical to national security
• The growth of the space economy, from the adoption of proliferated LEO architectures to in-space mobility innovations
• Evaluating companies across different stages of maturity
• The role of government programs and non-dilutive funding
• SpaceX’s impact on market dynamics and its broader implications for venture-backed companies
• Structural and financial barriers that space and defense startups face, and how investors can help address them

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:02 - Chris's Thanksgiving must-haves

02:15 - Point72 Ventures overview

05:35 - History with space

06:42 - Why did Point72 Ventures first get into space?

09:00 - Chris's thesis about the space industry

10:49 - Proliferated LEO

12:11 - Predictive work and investments

13:02 - At what stage in a company is Point72 Ventures looking to invest?

13:53 - How does space fit into the investment strategy?

15:51 - What happens when a portfolio company isn't hitting their milestones?

17:12 - The process

18:39 - How Point72 Ventures separates itself and what it provides beyond capital

20:31 - Public and private sides of the firm

21:13 - Market dynamics

24:05 - Is there enough government funding for startups, and are they winning enough contracts?

27:29 - Does SpaceX's valuation make sense?

29:47 - Starship vs. Starlink business prediction

32:42 - Is SpaceX a monopoly?

33:26 - Is SpaceX a concern when it comes to investing in the industry?

35:04 - Biggest issues facing startups today and how can investors help

39:04 - Over and under-hyped areas of the market

40:36 - Space ventures in the next decade

42:25 - Gaps in the market

43:37 - Advice to founders looking to start a space company

45:00 - Mars

47:00 - What does Chris do for fun?

• Show notes •

Point72 Ventures’ website — https://p72.vc/

Point 72 Ventures’ socials — https://x.com/p72vc

Chris’ socials — https://x.com/MrChrisMorales

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays
 

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week, we bring you our second installment of Pathfinder’s special podcast series on the State of the Space Industry. As a reminder, you’ll hear from two members of Payload’s editorial staff on key trends, exclusive interviews, and insights shaping the industry.

Today’s episode explores EO & SatCom, featuring Payload’s Research Director, Jack Kuhr, and Lead Reporter, Rachael Zisk. Highlights from the discussion include:

EO

• EO market dynamics in 2023
• Public EO companies’ trajectory
• VC inclinations and startup viability in EO
• Speculating on SpaceX's emerging EO ambitions
• The realities of commercial demand

SatCom

• The SatCom market in 2023
• The impact of the Ukraine war
• Exploration of direct to cell innovations
• SpaceX’s strategic moves
• Investor sentiment and edge computing in SatCom

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). Be sure to check out the Italian Pavilion  in South Hall (Booth 603) during Space Symposium!
 

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

01:22 Jack's background

02:21 Earth Observation market in 2023

04:41 State of the public EO

06:23 Major fundraisers in 2023

07:51 EO startups securing venture capital

14:20 Spire and BlackSky

16:19 SpaceX and EO

18:59 Consolidation in the EO market

22:37 Rachel’s background

23:30 Satcom in 2023

24:51 Ukraine & SatCom

26:45 Direct to cell technology

28:51 Starlink’s impact

33:22 Edge computing

35:30 Investing in SatCom

39:47 FCC and regulations

42:17 Predictions for SatCom in 2024

• Show notes •

Jack’s socials — https://twitter.com/JackKuhr

Rachael’s socials — https://twitter.com/RachaelZisk

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

What if you could cut the time for data to be relayed from space to Earth from half an hour to milliseconds? That’s the vision of Hedron. Formerly known as Analytical Space, Hedron is developing a network of data relay satellites that it says “will connect space to Earth in real-time.”

Hedron raised a nearly $18M Series A last year and brought on a new management team, including now-COO Katherine Monson. She’s the former CEO of KSAT Inc., the American division of Kongsberg Satellite Services. Before that, she was an early employee of Spire Global ($SPIR).

Katherine joins us today on the Pathfinder podcast to discuss Hedron’s go-to-market strategy, the company’s technology, the space industry, the three rules of building networks, and more. Hedron has played its cards relatively close to the vest this year, so it was quite an honor to dig into the startup’s technology, strategy, and outlook for the next few years.

SPONSOR : Today’s episode is brought to you by Altek Inc., a leading custom injection molding and precision machining manufacturer of key parts and components for rockets and satellites. Find out more at https://www.altek-inc.com/

*CHAPTERS*

00:00: Intro
04:30 Dreaming of being SecDef
6:49 International cooperation work at Pentagon
8:12 High-stakes negotiating and high capital-intensity industries
9:00 Entering aerospace world
13:00 The importance of trust in business
14:30 Changes at Hedron (formerly Analytical Space)
19:13 “Today, that's measured in minutes and we need to be moving into milliseconds”
21:20 The three rules of building networks
28:00 Technology stack, network architecture, and inter-satellite links
34:30 What needs to be done in-house and what doesn’t (aka buy vs. build)
37:30 Target users and applications…why do firefighters need this technology?
50:35 Other industries space can learn from

*SHOW NOTES*

Website: https://www.hedron.space/
Rebrand/Series A https://payloadspace.com/hedron-rebrands-raises-series-a/
Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherinedmonson
KSAT: https://www.ksat.no/
Spire: https://spire.com/
Pathfinder’s 2022 Spotify Wrapped: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/rfduffy_pathfinders-spotify-wrapped-weve-been-activity-7007133134081191936-4UvR
Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 12,000+ decision-makers across commercial, civil, and military space.We aim to inform but also educate and entertain.

In this week’s Pathfinder pod, Chiara Manfletti, CEO of Neuraspace and former President of the Portuguese National Space Agency, discusses the growing importance of space situational awareness (SSA) and space traffic management. Neuraspace is a Portuguese startup that is developing a software platform that provides satellite operators with risk assessments, maneuvering advice, and insights on space debris.

Chiara explains Neuraspace’s mission to tackle the challenges of space debris and why it's essential to develop better tools for managing space traffic. She also shares the story behind Neurospace’s founding, the company’s growth, and their innovative approach to automating satellite operations.

We also discuss:

• The threat of space debris and its long-term implications
• How Neuraspace integrates multiple data sources
• The role of space situational awareness in the future of autonomous spacecraft
• Differences in commercial and government customer needs
• The long-term vision for making space a safer, more sustainable place for satellites and other assets

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:58 - What is Neuraspace?

02:14 - The founding vision

04:07 - Is space debris an issue?

08:18 - Unnecessary maneuvers

09:40 - Neuraspace's ecosystem

11:17 - Neuraspace's ground-based hardware

12:36 - Challenges acquiring the right data amidst competition

14:17 - Value chain of space situational awareness

15:26 - Benefits of having a company focused on intelligence

17:40 - How Neuraspace predicts collision events

20:22 - Challenges integrating different sources of data

22:00 - Automation and level of control satellite operators

24:37 - Scaling

26:39 - Catalysts for satellite threat detection

28:24 - Primary customers

28:53 - Expectations of governments vs. commercial clients

30:05 - State of orbital debris globally and how Chiara thinks it'll change

31:12 - Competitors today

32:25 - Revenue model

33:36 - Work Neuraspace does with regulatory bodies

34:20 - Funding

36:07 - Long-term vision for Neuraspace

• Show notes •

Neuraspace’s website — https://www.neuraspace.com/

Neuraspace’s socials — https://x.com/neuraspace

Chiara’s socials — https://x.com/chiaramanfletti

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.
 

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Since stints at Airbus and ArianeGroup, Hélène Huby has shifted her focus to developing the Nyx spacecraft, Europe’s first privately funded cargo and crew capsule - a significant step for ESA’s future in the global space race. As of now, Europe does not have its own operational cargo or crew capsule and has relied on the capabilities of the US and Russia.

Huby has already made significant progress securing the largest Series A financing for a European space startup - a €40.5 million round in February of 2023. In addition to The Exploration Company’s origin story, Mo and Helene discuss:

• The first launch in 2024
• Nyx vs. Starliner vs. Crew Dragon
• Capsule design challenges
• Why Europe does not have a capsule

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

01:50 - Helene's background and how she started The Exploration Company

04:12 - Lack of government funded capsules in Europe

08:58 - Why build crew capsules?

13:15 - The Nyx capsule

16:26 - Fuel selection

18:37 - Nyx vs. Starliner vs. Crew Dragon

21:11 - Design challenges shifting from cargo to human

24:43 - The product roadmap

28:23 - SpiderOak Ad break

29:10 - The business model

31:23 - Is there a market for a space station?

37:17 - Building and R&D for a space station with and without government aid

41:49 - Commercial traction

44:20 - Being the first privately funded crew capsule

48:28 - The long-term vision

• Show notes •

The Exploration Company's website — https://www.exploration.space/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Two weeks ago, we launched Payload Research, a new division within Payload dedicated to providing incisive, insight-driven analysis tailored for industry leaders and investors. Today, we welcome Jack Kuhr, the esteemed Research Director of Payload, to go under the hood of our new venture. We explore the motivations behind its inception and offer a glimpse into what the future holds. In addition, they discuss:

• The Starship Report: This is Payload Research's inaugural publication, offering comprehensive insights into SpaceX’s heavy lift launch vehicle
• SpaceX’s 2023 Financial Overview: An in-depth analysis of SpaceX's financial performance in 2023, including a detailed breakdown of its revenue and the methodology employed by our team

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:36 - Jack's history with Payload

04:14 - Why are we building Payload Research?

10:34 - The Starship Report

15:58 - When will we see Starship commercial payloads?

20:12 - Starship cost-analysis

27:35 - What is Starbase like?

30:13 - SpaceX’s 2023 financials

33:18 - Launch assumptions

34:52 - Starlink assumptions

39:38 - SpaceX’s Other revenue

42:44 - Payload's next research newsletter

43:18 - What should people expect from future Payload research editions?

44:50 - What is Jack looking forward to covering the most this year?

46:18 - How to sign up

• Show notes •

The Starship Report — https://payloadspace.com/starship-report/

Payload Research’s website — https://www.payloadspace.com/research

Jack’s socials —https://twitter.com/JackKuhr

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

In this episode, Daniel Faber, CEO of Orbit Fab, a US-based company that is pioneering in-space refueling infrastructure, shares his journey from Tasmania to becoming a leader in the space economy's refueling efforts. Additionally, we delve into:

• Orbit Fab’s mission and services
• The need for refueling capabilities
• The economics of fuel depots
• Viability of asteroid mining

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:35 - Gas stations in space

01:44 - Daniel's background

05:49 - Origins of Orbit Fab

10:46 - Initial customer base

11:48 - The demo mission

13:05 - How does Orbit Fab make money today?

14:26 - Working with launch providers

15:25 - Structuring contracts

20:25 - Do small satellites need refueling?

23:02 - Contracting with the DoD

24:11 - Partnership with Astroscale

26:27 - Findings from the demo mission

27:54 - RAFTI standardization

29:10 - The inflection point for refueling

34:30 - The competition

35:57 - Fundraising environment

39:07 - Milestones investors should watch for

39:58 - Viability of asteroid mining

44:53 - What Daniel would be building if he wasn't building Orbit Fab

46:06 - Companies that excite Daniel

• Show notes •

Orbit Fab's website — https://www.orbitfab.com/

Orbit Fab's socials — https://twitter.com/OrbitFab

Daniel's socials — https://twitter.com/_DanielFaber_

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

On today's episode of the Pathfinder podcast, we’re tackling the topic of space junk. We’re very fortunate to have Dr. Moriba Jah, one of the world’s foremost authorities on this topic, joining us this week.

Moriba is an astrodynamicist, space environmentalist, and associate professor of aerospace engineering and engineering mechanics at UT Austin (obligatory 'hook em' from Ryan). Moriba is also the chief scientist and cofounder of Privateer, with Alex Fielding and Steve “Woz” Wozniak. Privateer, which stayed highly secretive until relatively recently, bills itself as “a data and intelligence platform empowering the future of space sustainability.”

Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (www.spideroak-ms.com), an industry leader in cybersecurity.

In the simplest of terms, Moriba specializes in studying and predicting the motion of objects in space. It’s a hot topic at the moment, given recent uncontrolled spacecraft reentries, the growing pile of junk in LEO, and the rising importance of space domain awareness (SDA) and space traffic management (STM).

*SNEAK PEEK*

Moriba walks us through his framework for thinking about the orbital commons. Among other things, we discuss…

• The perception of risk and uncertainty
• The criticality of accurate measurements
• How, when, and where national governments are responsible and liable for debris build-up and the downstream consequences
• The geopolitical calculus of maintaining the orbital commons, and the challenges of multilateral coordination
• Moriba’s efforts to “recruit empathy” for space environmentalism and reach a wide swath of the general public
• A tragedy of the orbital commons…but also, reasons to be optimistic

In the back half of the episode, we focus on Privateer and work through the following questions:

• Where does the startup get its data and how could the wisdom of crowds come into play?
• What does the tech stack look like?
• How is Privateer thinking about its own orbital assets and hosted payloads? Where will it buy vs. build?
• What types of organizations will be the power users of Privateer’s platform and the Wayfinder product, if the startup succeeds in its goal?

Come for Moriba’s insightful takes on the serious matters at hand; stay for the dog cameo, keto detour, and wearable technology talk.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro

3:09 - Moriba’s résumé … from hook ‘em to science committees to disarmament and advising the Scottish government  

5:19 - Explain it like I’m five: what’s astrodynamics? … and @ 7:11, same question but for space environmentalism. Moriba coined the term so he’s a good person to ask.  

8:06 - Space may be an abundant and limitless expanse, but from a resource consumption POV, especially in LEO, it is quite finite

9:44 - How do you feel about the influx of attention to orbital debris and LEO congestion in recent years?

11:42 - Are there parallels, theoretically speaking, between the Kessler Syndrome and planetary feedback loops that could be induced by runaway climate change? 

14:36 - Risk assessment, forecasting, pattern-matching, structured vs. unstructured data, building models, and “epistemic uncertainty” … and @ 18:00, “You can’t know something better than its inherent randomness” 

19:49 - Overseeing our orbital commons is the quintessential international relations problem. With regards to taking ownership and cleaning up the mess, does the buck stop with national governments? 

24:59 - Is there a new co-host of Pathfinder??? 🐶🐶🐶

26:08 - What does reaching our carrying capacity of LEO look like? How many objects can be up there at once? Is it possible to even answer these questions? 

28:28 - The dangers of mucking up key orbits 

30:52 - Privateer intro. Privateer was cofounded by the three amigos: Moriba, entrepreneur and Privateer CEO Alex Fielding, and Apple cofounder Steve “Woz” Wozniak 

33:45 - You have a near-real-time, open-access feed of objects around Earth on your website. Where are you pulling this data from? As it relates to your Wayfinder product, what’s unique about Privateer’s tech stack? In what ways is this an aggregation play? Are you making this data interoperable? 

39:24 - Operationalizing and productizing Moriba’s life work through Privateer’s platform 

40:47 - Privateer will operate its own on-orbit assets

46:42 - You’d have all the reasons in the world to be a jaded realist. Why aren’t you one? How do you stay optimistic? 

50:20 - If you weren’t working in astrodynamics and aerospace, what would you be doing? And finally…favorite taco spot(s) in Austin?

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com

*SNEAK PEEK*

For starters, we get a status report on what Aquarian’s been up to over the last six months. But there’s plenty more on tap, such as: 

• How Kelly landed at Aquarian, with a serial entrepreneur background and non-space resume
• NASA’s Deep Space Network (DSN) and new opportunities with today’s technology
• Going to market with CLPS (Commercial Lunar Payload Services) rovers and landers
• What a lunar Wi-Fi network will look like and its first applications
• The capital required for the initial network buildout
• Is Kelly worried about aliens free-loading on Aquarian’s Wi-Fi?

…and more! Come for the above topics, stay for ever-so-brief discussions of yoga and astrology (Ryan’s totally unbiased opinion: Aquarians rule).

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Introduction
2:32 - Kelly’s love for space began when she grew up on a farm and was able to look up at the stars
6:49 - “Farm girl turned yoga entrepreneur turned space CEO.” The transformation that brought Kelly to the space industry
11:08 - Kelly’s take on joining Aquarian
13:24 - What problems is Aquarian setting out to solve? How are they approaching these issues?
18:14 - Aquarian’s launch strategy for their communications networks and the growing lunar economy
24:36 - What will Aquarian’s constellation look like? Kelly discusses the need to bring reliable service to Aquarian’s customers
29:11 - Eating the humble pie: how Kelly went about fundraising and pitching in the first round
34:46 - Space camps and mentorship
37:42 - Are there common backgrounds in the technical team at Aquarian?
41:33 - The logistics of being a space startup distributed across the US
45:14 - Kelly’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, of space
46:40 - Who are Kelly’s role models in the space industry? Will Kelly go to space one day?
51:33 - The concern for extraterrestrial life and having advanced network systems in space

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Jed McCaleb, Founder, and Max Haot, CEO, the leaders behind Vast, a company pioneering the development of commercial space stations. Jed, a seasoned software entrepreneur, and Max, a veteran in space and internet ventures, bring their unique expertise to the ambitious goal of advancing human habitation in space.

Our conversation covers the critical aspects of creating economically viable space stations, the strategic role of life support systems, and the significance of reducing transportation costs. We also explore:

• Space station economics, pros/cons of competition
• Military opportunities and sensitivities in space station use
• Integration of Launcher post-acquisition
• Challenges and excitement of Haven One's launch
• Vast’s product roadmap

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

00:53 Jed's career path and creating Vast

02:57 Balancing aspirations and making money

04:57 Max's history building business and how he came to Vast

08:49 Max's primary objective at Vast

11:22 Jed's experience building a hardware company

12:31 Market opportunity for a free flying space station

15:20 Haven 1

19:17 Building components in house

21:07 Materials use and construction safety

23:03 Vast's approach vs competitors

29:45 Importance of being first in the market

31:41 Is the market large enough to sustain multiple station providers?

33:25 Common misconceptions of space station investment

38:02 Vast x SpaceX partnership

40:55 Product roadmap

43:22 Coinciding with Starship timelines

45:06 Will Starship be converted into a space station?

46:10 Fundraising

47:09 Economics around Haven 1

51:37 Military applications

53:30 Utilization after acquisition

54:13 What excites you and keeps you up at night?

• Show notes •

Max’s socials — https://twitter.com/maxhaot

Jed’s socials — https://twitter.com/JedMcCaleb

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Vast’s website — https://www.vastspace.com/

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Axiom is a Houston-based space startup unicorn. Axiom is building a space station, brokering private spaceflight missions with SpaceX, and even has a slot at the International Space Station (ISS) with its name on it. If you can't tell, we love saying the word space.

Suffredini is one of the world’s foremost authorities on building and operating space stations. He spent three decades at NASA and 10 years as the ISS program manager, before hanging up his space agency cleats and starting Axiom with Kam Ghaffarian.

In April, Axiom clinched a world, or maybe intergalactic, first. Together with SpaceX, Axiom launched Ax-1, the first all-private mission to the ISS. In our conversation, recorded in early May, Suffredini shares plenty with us on Ax-1, Axiom's business model, his time at NASA, Tom Cruise's LEO movie, in-space manufacturing, and much more.

Pathfinder's first episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - intro

1:33 - Ax-1 mission introduction 

3:07 - Staying busy after the mission concluded

4:17 - Looking back at the launch, what surprised Mike the most?

6:50 - Mike’s departure from NASA, fateful convos with eventual Axiom cofounder Dr. Kam Ghaffarian, and the decision to start Axiom 

9:40 - “He called me back probably the next day and said: 'Okay, I'm in. Let's go build a space station.'”

11:54 - How could a commercial station improve upon what’s been started with the ISS? What’s different between public and private stations? 

13:21 - Spacewalks are expensive and time-consuming, but necessary to repair American components outside the International Space Station

14:13 - At the ISS, “we transitioned to a laptop you could buy online.” Axiom is taking this approach to a whole new level.

14:40 - UX (user experience) space stations - a niche but important discipline

15:29 - Fixing issues in flight without calling the ground and using automated onboard hardware

15:50 - Cost comparisons between public and private stations 

16:10 - Buy vs. build

18:07 - Vertical integration 

19:56 - Axiom’s roadmap: Phase #1 @ 20:04, Phase #2 @ 21:45, and Phase #3 @ 22:46

23:46 - Later this century, Axiom has sci-fi visions of creating rotating space cities in low-Earth orbit

26:24 - NASA shifting from owning/operating a station to being one customer on it 

31:04 - Axiom’s target markets, from applied research to in-space manufacturing

33:16 - “The big thing that’s really ‘gonna change our lives”...

33:12 - The killer app for space stations?

36:01 - Internet analogy … and Amazon comparison @ 40:07

37:20 - Inspiring kids to start thinking about microgravity and building products/businesses suited to the conditions of microgravity

42:52 - “The movie flight is the worst-kept secret in the industry” (👀Tom Cruise👀)

43:53 - Closing out the show with a bunch of Texas questions

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Dan Wright is no typical founder. With a formidable background at software powerhouses like AppDynamics and DataRobot, Dan has shifted his focus towards bridging the technological gap in edge computing with his latest venture, Armada. As the world’s first full-stack edge computing platform, Armada integrates computing and AI capabilities directly where data is generated.

Dan started Armada after recognizing a significant shift in data generation to the edge and the inadequate response of centralized clouds to the demands of heavy data producers in sectors like oil and gas and manufacturing.

In today’s episode, Dan discusses the origin story of Armada and its strategic partnership with Starlink, which allows it to extend its edge computing capabilities to remote locations. We also discuss:

• The impact of edge computing
• Armada’s product suite and roadmap
• Bridging the digital divide
• Building a business with SpaceX

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA).

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

01:11 What is Armada and why did you start the company?

02:33 Adding hardware capabilities

04:34 What is edge computing?

07:00 75% of all data will be generated at the edge

10:12 Serving remote corners of the world

11:22 What kind of efficiency will edge computing be able to make?

14:06 Armada x Starlink

16:59 How did Armada build their relationship with Starlink?

18:51 How did you convince SpaceX to work with you?

20:30 Without Starlink, can Armada still be successful?

22:11 Armada’s product suite

25:41 Creating demand for 3rd parties in the marketplace

28:11 The Galleon

30:44 Customer traction, targeting, and product in the field

32:58 Armada's smallest but still relevant customer

34:18 The competitive landscape

36:13 Extreme testing for Galleon

38:45 Capital raising

41:38 What keeps Dan up at night

43:17 Galleons but in space?

44:47 10 year vision

46:04 Dan's opinion on Starship's next flight test

50:40 What does Dan do for fun?
 

• Show notes •

Armada’s website — www.armada.ai

Dan’s socials — https://twitter.com/danwrightSF

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays
 

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today's episode of Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out SpiderOak’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

*CHAPTERS*

00:00 — Intro
01:46 — The pre-Quilty Analytics days ... Caleb's winding journey from political science and astronomy to space reporting
08:27 — What do space analysts do for a living?
12:01 — SpaceX and T-Mobile teaming up and satellite-to-smartphone connectivity
21:23 — Tracking newly SPAC'd or IPO'd space companies, vs. established mid/big-cap A&D stocks with large and $$$ space divisions
28:22 — A shout-out to AST SpaceMobile's online fans and r/ASTSpaceMobile ... "Hi, Reddit and AST SpaceMobile subreddit, we're reading you."
30:00 — Caleb's 🐐 description for what supports the satellite industry ... the-three legged stool
36:59 — And don't forget the invisible stool ... cybersecurity, space situational awareness (SSA), and spectrum authorization
47:22 — What was it like moderating the Amazon Project Kuiper announcement, aka the largest commercial launch procurement in history? Caleb interviewed CEOs of Blue Origin, Arianespace, and United Launch Alliance (ULA)
48:33 — Where is the market tapped out? And where is there room to grow? 
52:18 — The long-lasting effects of the Russia-Ukraine conflict on the space industry. With the two space powerhouses at odds, "the split is literally tearing rockets in half and tearing satellites in half."

*SHOW NOTES*

Caleb's Twitter — https://twitter.com/CHenry_QA
Caleb's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebahenry/
Ryan's Twitter — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy
Quilty — https://www.quiltyanalytics.com/
Research/reports ($) — https://www.quiltyanalytics.com/research/industry-research/
Diagrams — https://payloadspace.com/pathfinder-0016-featuring-caleb-henry/ 
Parallax —parallax.beehiiv.com

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish Payload, our flagship newsletter, from Monday to Friday; Pathfinder, and Parallax. 

Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

You can subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at payloadspace.com

There aren’t many dedicated space economists out there, but today we’re lucky enough to be joined by one. This week’s Pathfinder guest is Pierre Lionnet, Research and Managing Director at Eurospace, who shares his critical and thought-provoking insights into the space economy. Pierre, with a background in engineering and finance, has spent 30 years analyzing and providing data-driven perspectives for the space industry. He’s also not afraid to ruffle feathers or challenge conventional thinking with his views.

Eurospace, a non-profit trade association, focuses on delivering analytics and independent assessments to its members. Our conversation delves into Pierre's critical perspective on the space economy and the industry's current dynamics. We also explore:

• Forecasting the economy over the last decade and potential overestimations
• Impact of increased mass in orbit 
• General misconceptions about the industry 
• Sustainability of the current startup environment
• Future of private investment and commercialization in space

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:38 - The Space Economist

02:50 - Space industry over 30 years

04:56 - What sparked Pierre's passion for space economics

07:39 - Previous economists before Pierre

10:43 - Pierre's team at Eurospace

11:15 - Common misconceptions about the industry

13:36 - Concerning and interesting trends in the industry

18:53 - How big is the industry today?

21:43 - Gaps in estimates

25:46 - Negative effects of inaccurate estimates

28:26 - Current view on the startup market and future predictions

34:28 - US vs European startup ecosystem

35:32 - How Pierre would invest his capital

38:35 - Challenges of commercialization and launch costs

44:45 - Is there a viable business model around Starlink?

48:14 - Business case for the Moon

50:31 - What causes a break in interest and passion in investors?

55:27 - Overlooked or undervalued areas of the market

58:08 - What startup would Pierre work at if he had to choose one?

01:00:57 - Space leaders that Pierre follows

01:04:02 - Advice for making sure the space economy continues to grow in the right way

01:06:41 - What does Pierre do for fun?

• Show notes •

Eurospace website — https://eurospace.org/

Pierre’s socials — https://twitter.com/LionnetPierre

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms.
1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today, we’re bringing you a live podcast from South by Southwest that was recorded Tuesday at the SkyFi Summit. 

Pathfinder #0039 is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space—find out more at www.kepler.space

Bear in mind that four guests at once is a new format for us, but the convo that follows is funny, fast-moving, and definitely worth your while. On-stage and speaking alongside Ryan were:  

• Luke Fischer, CEO of SkyFi,
• Gabe Dominocielo, cofounder and president of Umbra,
• Katie Betts, head of BD at Albedo,
• Will Edwards, CEO of Firehawk Aerospace

First, some news: This week, SkyFi said it has officially onboarded Umbra and Satellogic as imagery providers on its platform.

A sneak peek

We chatted all things Earth observation: pain points, market potential, SAR, the sales process, regulation, analytics, and more. Ryan asked each exec whether the "smartest people in the room" cast aside their business idea as "impossible," and what proving them wrong looks like.  

• Gabe opened up for the first time about Umbra’s bootstrapped origins and harped on the end-all, be-all in EO: unit economics.
• Luke highlighted SkyFi’s recent momentum with both imagery providers and consumers/end users of its platform, and spoke about the primacy of UX (user experience) for his company.
• Will brought 3D-printed rocket fuel as a prop, showed the audience Firehawk’s recent hot-fire test; and provided a state-of-play on rocket propulsion in the US.
• Katie shared more color on Albedo’s backstory, along with its go-to-market plan, and delivered the quote of the day: "We will be able to detect adult pigs from space, but not baby pigs.”

Chapters

00:00:00—Intro and Kepler Ad    

00:02:07—Live panel begins     

00:03:22—Will, his prop, and Firehawk's hot fire    

00:04:40—Albedo

00:05:55—Umbra

00:07:13—SkyFi 

00:08:39—The status quo in EO

00:17:30—The smartest people in the room say it's impossible...chips on shoulders and proving the haters wrong    

00:28:15—A word from Kepler 

00:29:05—How do you decide who to partner with?  

00:39:04—Predicting future products and capabilities    

00:46:53—Q from social media: Could you product have found Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?    

00:48:44—Audience Q: What are you doing around supplier diversity programs?    

00:50:43—When will we get satellite imagery that's high-res and granular enough to see Bill Perkins wakesurfing on Lake Travis?

00:52:34—Close of show 

• Show notes •

Firehawk hot-fire: https://twitter.com/FirehawkAero/status/1630999186282872843?s=20

SkyFi partnership with Umbra: https://twitter.com/SkyfiApp/status/1635692914821955584?s=20

...and Satellogic: https://www.skyfi.com/blog/skyfi-announces-integration-with-satellogic-to-expand-earth-observation#main

SkyFi: https://www.skyfi.com/

Umbra: https://umbra.space/

Albedo: https://albedo.com/

FIrehawk: https://firehawkaerospace.com/

Payload: http://payloadspace.com/

There’s a growing demand for streamlined communication and collaboration tools in the space industry. Integrate Space, based in Seattle, is tackling this challenge head-on. Co-founded by John Conafay, a veteran with ties to the USAF, ABL, Spaceflight, and Astranis, the startup aims to modernize program management, offering digital solutions to track development schedules, coordinate missions, and improve vendor collaboration. 

John believes that a platform like Integrate needs to be part of every industry building complex hardware. With newly acquired funding and two new contracts with the USSF and Firefly Aerospace, the company is expanding its team and moving into a new office in Seattle. Though space was where Integrate started, the company with the help of its new investors intends to expand into the biotech and cybersecurity industries. 

A sneak peek… 

In today’s episode, Mo and John chat: 

– The landscape of digital tools in the industry 

– Integrate’s business model and core value proposition 

– Raising capital in the current market 

– Digital solution platforms at scale 

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro 

00:28 - SpiderOak Ad 

01:05 - Integrate introduction 

03:32 - How would you describe what Integrate does to your 5-year-old cousin? 

05:34 - John's history with the new space industry 

13:51 - Is Integrate's solution a nice to have or integral to solving huge inefficiencies? 

16:14 - Integrate's core offering 

17:31 - Initial target/customer base 

18:36 - Integrate's business model 

19:28 - How large is Integrate's team today? 

20:23 - Integrate's branding origin 

22:41 - SpiderOak Ad 

23:28 - Recent contract wins 

27:07 - Integrate's use case for the government 

29:08 - How does Integrate fit in the competitive landscape? 

31:15 - Does Integrate compete against internal builds from larger companies? 

32:59 - Digital tools at scale 

34:04 - Round construction 

37:13 - Growth areas for Integrate 

39:45 - Integrate beyond space 

40:59 - Advice for founders looking to raise pre-seed funding 

43:07 - Tech that John is a big fan of 

47:28 - Favorite space book/show 

49:03 - How to get invited to an Integrate party/get connected as a customer 

• Show notes • 

Integrate's website — https://integrate.space/ 

Integrate's socials — https://twitter.com/Integrate_hrdwr 

John's socials — https://twitter.com/JConafay 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s episode takes us to the bleeding edge of Earth observation, where one startup aims to bring what it claims is a step change in multispectral data to the commercial markets.

Our guest, Awais Ahmed, is the CEO and cofounder of Pixxel. The Indian-American startup, which is building a health monitor for Earth, has raised $32M+ to build a 36-satellite constellation of hyperspectral imaging satellites.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Spaced Ventures, which recently launched an effort to open an investment round into SpaceX. The space investment portal has received over $38M million in pledges from 2,200 investors.

*SNEAK PEEK*

• What prompted Awais and co-founder/CTO Kshitij Khandelwal to start the company (hint: the origin story is a running theme in recent Pathfinder episodes)
• Comparisons between multispectral and hyperspectral data collection
• Capturing 200+ bands at five-meter resolution and a 24-hour revisit rate
• “It’s early days” for space commercialization in India, but the sector has a bright future
• The tech tailwinds powering the startup, along with its key initial use cases and market verticals
• The startup’s views on launch and how Pixxel selects rockets for its satellites’ trips to space
• We unpack Pixxel’s long-term vision for mapping the solar system

*CHAPTERS*

(03:16) What are you putting on orbit?

(06:48) Hyperspectral introduction

(10:55) Space products for companies

(12:26) Origin story of Pixxel

(18:46) The stresses of launching a payload

(24:25) How India is a competitive advantage for Pixxel

(28:07) Technology tailwinds + Pixxel’s tech stack

(39:08) End users + use cases for this technology

(43:12) Hyperspectral vs. synthetic aperture radar

(46:52) A *massively* high concentration of commercial, rather than government, customers

(49:09) How to pick a launch provider + getting to final destination, space tugs, etc.

(52:10) Pixxel’s long-term vision for mapping the solar system

*SHOW NOTES*

Pixxel website: https://www.pixxel.space/

Awais’ Twitter: https://twitter.com/awaisahmedna

Payload’s Pixxel coverage: https://payloadspace.com/pixxel-series-a/

Pixxel’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pixxelspace/

https://www.pixxel.space/vision

https://www.pixxel.space/technology

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 

1) 🚀 Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning
2) 🧑🏼‍🚀 Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings
3) 🌌 ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons.

Parallax is our new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

Today, Pathfinder unveils an industry exclusive. An influential trio – Major General (Ret.) Kim Crider, Eddie Papczun, and Mike Dickey – veterans of A&D, have come together to launch Elara Nova, a consulting firm meticulously crafted to cater to the ever-expanding space industry. With illustrious careers under their belts, these three have held distinguished positions in the Air Force and Space Force (Kim was the Chief Technology Innovation Officer and Mike was Chief Architect) and later ventured into space and defense consulting.

Recognizing a critical void in the market not being met by major consulting organizations, Crider, Papczun, and Dickey have forged a comprehensive and cohesive consulting powerhouse. Their vision: bolster the space industry, fortify national security, and aid companies in cultivating international alliances.

Kim and Eddie join us to discuss:

• The origins of Elara Nova
• Why a space-focused consultancy?
• Range of services and target clients
• Importance of data for a company’s space strategy
• Navigating private vs government funding
• “A pacing threat in China”
• And much more…

And much more…

Our episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters •

00:00 Introduction and SpiderOak Ad

01:32 Introducing Kim & Eddie

01:50 The start of a new business venture

05:32 Origins of Elara Nova

06:20 The Avengers of the Space Industry

11:19 Why Elara Nova and why now?

22:42 Kim's background as Chief Technology Innovation Officer of the USSF

27:02 How important is data to a company's space strategy?

35:20 SpiderOak Ad Break

36:08 Focusing on government vs commercial customers

40:10 How should startups navigate funding and government capital?

45:10 DoD vs NASA space budget

48:50 US lead vs China

53:54 NASA prediction

54:55 Elon prediction

55:57 The first to the Moon

59:10 How to get in touch with Elara Nova

• Show notes •

Elara Nova — https://elaranova.com/

Kim's Email: kim@elaranova.com

Eddie's Email: eddie@elaranova.com

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. 

Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Ian Cinnamon is the CEO and Co-founder of Apex Space, a startup manufacturing satellite buses in the 100-kilogram class that can support ~100 kgs of payload. It aims to sell Aries, its first product, into the commercial space market and support EO and communications missions. Apex says Aries will be available as an off-the-shelf platform that can be configured with specific subsystems to support certain customer needs.

Ian previously was an Investor and Entrepreneur in Residence at Village Global. Prior to Village, Ian founded Synapse Technology, an AI security startup that exited to Palantir. Max Benassi, Apex’s other cofounder, formerly built vehicles at SpaceX and served as Astra’s director of engineering

Today’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. 

• A sneak peek •

Ian and Mo talk about Apex’s origin story, the complexities of satellite bus manufacturing, and the size of Apex’s target market. They also discuss:

• The long-awaited history behind the Cinnamon family name
• Why the Apex team is best suited to tackle the satellite bus market
• How to successfully work with commercial vs. government customers
• The importance of the SpaceX Transporter-10 mission
• The geopolitical tailwinds supporting the space industry
• And much more…

• Chapters •

• 00:00:00 Intro + SpiderOak Ad 
• 01:11:00 The Origin of the Cinnamons 
• 03:31:06 Introduction to Apex 
• 07:57:11 Difficulties of in-house bus development 
• 09:52:02 Apex vs. Terran Orbital vs. York Space 
• 13:19:19 Working with the government customer 
• 18:08:16 Quantifying the satellite bus market 
• 21:47:09 Refueling in LEO, is there a market? 
• 25:31:11 Capital flows in launch vs bus manufacturing 
• 28:32:04 Difficulties of bus manufacturing 
• 30:38:01 SpiderOak Ad 
• 31:17:03 SpaceX Transporter 10 Mission 
• 32:21:16 The Apex Team 
• 38:38:02 Ian’s background as an investor and operator 
• 43:18:06 Geopolitics as a tailwind 
• 46:23:09 Rapid Fire! (Mentors/figures, startups Ian is excited about, how to spend free time) 
• 49:43:14 Outro

• Show notes •

Apex - https://www.apexspace.com/
Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL\_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6
Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. 

We publish three properties:

1. Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)
2. Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)
3. Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Find out more about us at http://payloadspace.com/

When he was a senior Pentagon official, Charles (or Chuck) Beames and his fellow military planners would speak forebodingly about “a day without space.” The nightmare scenario would involve a wide-ranging attack, kinetic or otherwise, on space systems, which could produce cascading communications and navigation failures for the armed forces (and wreak havoc on civilian technology systems as well). 

While that scenario hopefully never comes to pass, space is no longer a sanctuary nor uncontested higher ground. And securing civil, commercial, and military spacecraft is the order of the day. 

Today's episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. To learn more about Kepler and how they are modernizing space communications, visit https://kepler.space/

• Sneak peek •

On Pathfinder #0035, Chuck joins Ryan for a conversation on reconnaissance, security, and the growing cyber threat in space. Among other things, Chuck is the executive chairman of SpiderOak, a startup focused on shoring up the digital defenses of satellites, space networks, and the ground segment. The company recently raised a $16.4M Series C to develop, test, and fly OrbitSecure 2.0. SpiderOak employs two novel security approaches—zero-trust encryption and distributed ledger technology (DLT)—to secure space assets, along with the creation, communication, and management of data. OrbitSecure wraps up the company’s design philosophy and latest defensive techniques into one offering. The product securely compartmentalizes data for complex, interconnected space infrastructure. That’s important, per SpiderOak, because “today, the horizontal integration of ground stations, spacecraft, and payloads means you’re trusting third parties with mission-critical data.” 

Rest of the resume: Chuck is also the executive chairman of York Space Systems, a satellite manufacturer, and cofounder/chairman of the SmallSat alliance. In a past life, Chuck held executive positions in the Pentagon and served as the president of Vulcan Aerospace, where he oversaw $1B of AUM invested in space and tech initiatives and directed the Stratolaunch project. In one of his government posts, Chuck oversaw a $90B annual acquisition budget mostly focused on remote sensing, space-based communications, and orbital launch services. Lastly, Chuck served 23 years on active duty as an Air Force space and intelligence officer, and retired as a colonel. 

• Chapters •

02:30 Chuck joins show 
03:18 SpiderOak mission + raise 
07:29 Waking up to cyber threat from peer/near-peer adversaries 
09:14 Thoughts on the Chinese spy balloon? 
12:10 Balance of offensive vs. defensive capabilities on orbit 
15:44 Cybersecurity and the gray zone 
17:22 Vulnerabilities of space systems 
19:37 Should space have its own critical infrastructure designation? 
21:12 A day wthout space 
27:15 SpiderOak using COTS 
32:09 The zero trust security framework 
37:10 What's unique about cybersecurity in space (vis-a-vis terrestrial applications) 
45:36 Max Q 
49:01 Staying focused while dealing with diverse mission needs across military, commercial, and civil space 
53:24 Chuck's hobby 

• Show notes •

Chuck's Twitter — https://twitter.com/ChuckBeames
Bio — https://spideroak.com/executive-chairman/
Recent TV appearance — https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6319232902112#sp=show-clips
OrbitSecure — https://spideroak.com/orbitsecure/
Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL\_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6
Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

In today’s episode of the Pathfinder podcast, we’re talking all about a gentler type of suborbital space tourism. In Pathfinder #0026, we sit down with Jane Poynter, the co-CEO and cofounder of Space Perspective. Today’s episode is brought to you by Altek Space (https://www.altek-inc.com/space).

Jane was a member of the Biosphere 2 experiment, spending two years inside a closed ecosystem. She also cofounded Paragon Space Development Corp., which creates life support systems for spacecraft and stations.

Now, she’s working on Space Perspective. The startup has raised nearly $70M to date, is closing in on 100 employees, and aims to launch commercial service in 2024. Space Perspective is selling tickets for $125,000 a pop and its capsule is designed to take a crew of eight (and one pilot) nearly 100,000 ft. above Earth.

*SNEAK PEEK*

This was a fun episode that runs the gamut from controlled environment experiments to breaking the world’s record for highest jump to what one would do if a customer was overserved on a space balloon. Here’s a sample of what we discussed over the course of an hour. We also discuss: 

• Spaceship Neptune’s interior and exterior design 
• Ticket sales; pricing power; and supply and demand 
• The in-cabin amenities and cuisine 
• Recruiting and fundraising 
• Voyager, Space Perspective’s new ship, and how the startup is thinking about spaceport strategy

…plus a whole lot more. You won’t want to miss this wide-ranging conversation.

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning 
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings 
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons.

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

This week’s Pathfinder podcast features  Dr. Ellen Stofan, the Under Secretary of Science and Research at the Smithsonian. She oversees its science research centers and the National Air and Space Museum, National Museum of Natural History and the National Zoo.

Dr. Ellen Stofan is an American geologist and former NASA scientist who specialized in the geology of Venus, Mars, and Saturn's moon Titan. Ellen has held several key positions at NASA, including Chief Scientist from 2013 to 2016. During her tenure as Chief Scientist, she was instrumental in the development of a long-term plan to get humans to Mars and worked on strategies for NASA's science programs and science-related strategic goals and objectives.

Ellen is now the Under Secretary for Science and Research at the Smithsonian. She oversees its science research centers and the National Air and Space Museum, National Museum of Natural History and the National Zoo.

Today, Mo, Rachael and Ellen discuss:

• Ellen’s work at NASA and the Smithsonian
• NASA’s approach to collaboration with commercial space
• The privatization of the ISS
• NASA’s strategy around Mars and Starship
• Governance structure for off-planet habitation
• And much more…

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro

01:03 - Ellen as Chief Scientist of NASA

06:11 - Were you destined to work at NASA?

07:51 - Changes in the space industry since Ellen's tenure at NASA

10:39 - Ellen's career post-NASA

13:59 - Managing expectations of the public

16:09 - Marrying the goals of NASA and the commercial space industry

26:56 - How has NASA's Mars strategy changed?

29:39 - How do you gauge the public's interest in space projects?

31:26 - What technical problems remain for a crewed Mars mission?

33:21 - Impact of Starship on Mars?

34:54 - Will Starship change mass and design decision for science missions?

38:17 - Other noteworthy innovations from commercial space?

39:45 - Most interesting place for humans to visit outside of Mars?

41:33 - If we colonize Mars, what type of government should be instituted?

43:22 - "For All Mankind" and Space Race 2.0

46:11 - Favorite piece/installation from the Smithsonian

47:33 - Where  would you go in the Solar System and what ship  would you take?

48:20 - Will we find evidence that there is life on Mars?

• Show notes • 

Smithsonian's socials — https://twitter.com/smithsonian

Rachael's socials — https://twitter.com/RachaelZisk

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Right on the heels of their $90M funding round, this week’s Pathfinder spotlights Varda and its cofounders, Will Bruey (CEO) and Delian Asparouhov (President). The LA-based startup harnesses microgravity for pharmaceutical development and manufacturing. In its latest mission, the company successfully processed ritonavir, a crucial antiviral drug utilized in HIV/AIDS treatment.

In addition to Varda’s origin story and the Series B fundraise, Mo, Will, and Delian discuss:

• Varda’s commercialization strategy
• The business case for in-space manufacturing
• The significance of the W-1 mission
• Adapting to the regulatory environment
• Microgravity formulation optimization

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA).

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

01:21 Varda’s origin

05:40 What are you building?

08:17 What does space have to offer for manufacturing?

12:00 The business case for space manufacturing

18:02 What drugs have been improved in space?

19:13 What happened to ZBLAN?

20:54 R&D for manufacturing in space

22:34 The W-1 mission

29:05 Customer traction

30:38 Where does Varda's business risk lie?

38:22 Competitive landscape

39:49 Potential partnerships

42:48 Regulatory learnings

45:30 The Series B

46:57 Use cases beyond pharma

48:19 Space stations

55:35 Other companies Will is excited about

57:22 Where would Delian invest his last space investment?
 

• Show notes •

Varda’s website — https://www.varda.com/

The Return of Ritonavir Paper: https://www.varda.com/papers/1711063046-return-of-the-ritonavir-a-study-on-the-stability-of-pharmaceuticals-processed-in-orbit-and-returned-to-earth.pdf

Will’s socials — https://twitter.com/WillBruey

Delian’s socials — https://twitter.com/zebulgar

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

A Payload on Payload interview? It’s like the Spiderman pointing at another Spiderman meme. Jokes aside, Ryan invited Mo on to discuss a presentation he prepared for the Payload team at their recent off-site meeting. This week’s episode focuses on an adapted version of the deck and what’s happening within the macroeconomy.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper at spacecyber.com.

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Mo’s Wall Street background
• Starting Payload
• Inflation, a possible recession, and the global food crisis
• How it’s all connected to the space industry
• Consumer credit, COVID-19, and a “systemic failure in the crypto industry”
• Aerospace and defense (A&D) outperformance over other indices
• Tech valuation compressions
• A record year for space investing
• The next chapter of the space industry
• Is Starship priced in?

...and much more! It's a great conversation and we're super excited for you to hear it. Thanks to Mo for coming on Pathfinder!

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Show intro

1:17 - Introduction of the founder of Payload, Mo Islam

2:13 - Mo’s résumé

4:32 - Filling the big gap in media coverage within the space economy 

10:52 - America’s current struggle with inflation 

13:41 - We are facing a global food crisis

16:00 - Mo’s take on a potential technical recession

21:30 - Mo’s favorite topic….. Crypto! 

24:40 - Aerospace & Defense (A&D) was the top traded sub sector in Q2 

29:30 - The Fed is deliberately bursting the bubble on purpose, lowering asset prices on purpose…. “this is different than the global financial crisis”

33:10 - 2021 was a record year for government space investment, leading to increased future budget requests 

34:21 - Russia-Ukraine conflict’s effect on the race for space dominance 

38:20 - “It’s important to remember how quickly the macro can flip” 

43:31 - The end of the first chapter of new space is closing 

49:50 - Unicorn companies typically start in the period following a downturn 

51:40 - Mo’s opinion on the new space race

58:37 - Mo’s hobbies.. He’s a DJ?!

1:01:10 - Will we get boots on the moon in the next decade?

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Today, the Pathfinder podcast brings on its first married cofounder duo. Pathfinder #0036 is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. Find out more at https://kepler.space/

Our guests today are Seyka and Brian Mejeur, the cofounders of AdAstra, an executive and technical headhunting firm primarily for space technology startups. 

Seyka, AdAstra’s CEO, draws on a long resume of recruiting gigs. Brian, the firm’s COO and CTO, worked mainly as a SpaceX propulsion engineer for seven years before AdAstra. The two have worked with Varda, Ursa Major, and other leading startups to place space talent (but their full customer list is confidential).

By virtue of so many former SpaceX’ers matriculating into the climate tech world, Ad Astra also helps clean technology startups with talent acquisition. For all, think not entry-level but execs and founding teams. In fact, the recruiter duo even helped place a cofounder at a seed-stage startup. 

• A sneak peek •

In today’s episode, Ryan, Seyka, and Brian also discuss: 

• Where the space headhunters often focus their recruiting efforts
• A space hiring slowdown that coincided with funding dip in Q3 and Q4, with some seasonality-induced slowness mixed in
• How and why hiring is ticking back up in 2023
• SpaceX’s “culture of extreme ownership and rapid iteration,” as Brian put it
• Seyka’s concept of a space talent funnel
• The draws of being a mission-driven company and why excellent storytelling helps space startups attract top-flight talent
• Equity literacy (or lack thereof) with engineers looking to make the jump from a big company to a startup

• Chapters •

02:13 Guest intro and backgrounds
09:06 Types of people you work with from both sides of the table 
10:43 Passive vs active search for talent 
13:10 Post & Pray 
14:56 What do you look for in clients that you work with? 
22:35 What have you observed recently about company creation and hiring trends 
25:22 How do you convince talent to join your company? 
29:32 Kepler ad break 
30:20 Did the slowdown in funding for space reflect in hiring? 
33:34 Hiring advice for CEOs and founders 
35:27 Are there enough aerospace engineers in the workforce? 
37:13 Funnel for this industry 
42:21 Equity and comp discussion
48:34 Is there a cut off for clients that are too big? 
50:44 SpaceX mafia matriculating into climatetech 
52:56 Predictions 
55:56 Lightning round

• Show notes •

AdAstra — https://adastra.us/
Seyka's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/seyka 
Brian's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-mejeur/
Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL\_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6
Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

Today’s Pathfinder episode brings in Bill Weber, CEO of Firefly Aerospace, hot on the heels of the U.S. Space Force’s VICTUS NOX mission success. Bill shares insights on the prep work that propelled the mission, with a nod to his past life helming a public company. The discussion offers a glimpse into the meticulous planning and execution required in modern space missions. 

In addition, Mo and Bill chat: 

• Firefly's next-generation launch vehicle
• Working with Northrop Grumman
• Supply/demand dynamics of the launch market
• How hard it is to reach orbit

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Introduction

01:47 - Bill's background and how he got into the industry

08:12 - What is Firefly?

10:05 - Why is Firefly focusing on end-to-end transportation?

14:53 - Metrics of the Alpha launch vehicle

17:38 - Customer traction

20:19 - How hard is it to reach orbit?

22:30 - Being consistent on the easy stuff

26:12 - SpiderOak Ad

26:59 - The Victus Nox Mission

33:25 - Working with Northrop Grumman

36:50 - Reusability in the MLV

38:54 - Raising a Series C in today's market

41:44 - A PE-backed company

45:08 - Will Firefly go public?

47:52 - Is the launch market crowded?

47:59 - What is happening to public aerospace stocks?

48:27 - When do you think space companies will be ready for IPOs?

49:22 - Areas of the market that are overhyped and underhyped

50:22 - Breakthrough technology to pay attention to

51:05 - Company outside of Firefly that you're rooting for

• Show notes • 

Firefly's website — https://fireflyspace.com/ 

Firefly's socials — https://twitter.com/Firefly_Space 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

This week’s Pathfinder podcast features the CEO of the XPRIZE Foundation, Anousheh Ansari – our first guest who’s actually been to space (it’s shocking to us too that it’s taken this long). After immigrating to the United States from Iran as a teenager, she co-founded Telecom Technologies, a telecommunication company that integrated voice and data. In 2006, she became the first first-privately funded female and Iranian-American to travel to space and the International Space Station.

Catch up: The $10 million purse, sponsored by the Ansari family, set forth a competition to stimulate innovation in private spaceflight. It challenged private entities to design a reusable crewed spacecraft capable of two flights within a two-week period. In 2004, the Mojave Aerospace Ventures team's SpaceShipOne clinched the prize, catalyzing a paradigm shift in the realm of commercial spaceflight. Virgin Galactic eventually licensed the technology for its SpaceShipTwo vehicle.

In addition to Anousheh’s background, we discuss:

• The origins of the XPRIZE Foundation
• How to focus on the right global challenge
• The future of commercial spaceflight
• Structuring the incentives to promote innovation
• XPRIZE Wildfire
• And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:02 - Moving from Iran to the US

07:45 - Going to space

10:09 - Becoming the first Iranian-American astronaut

13:47 - The Overview Effect

17:18 - Introduction to XPRIZE

27:28 - The XPRIZE Brain Trust

33:00 - Equity ownership at XPRIZE?

38:21 - Wildfire detection & suppression

39:45 - XPRIZE & Crowdsourcing

41:58 - How has the experience of space flight changed?

46:41 - Regulations in the commercial space flight industry

51:37 - Game changing technology for humanity

55:12 - What does Anousheh do for fun?

56:15 - Favorite sci-fi movies?

56:42 - How to get involved with the X Prize Foundation

• Show notes •

XPRIZE website — https://www.xprize.org/

Anousheh’s socials — https://twitter.com/anoushehansari

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

When Shey Sabripour moved to Austin, TX, more than a decade ago, he was immediately struck by the city's laid-back lifestyle and impressive talent pool (we imagine the Tex Mex didn’t hurt either). After spending a few years as CTO of local Texas startup Firefly Aerospace, Shey couldn’t resist the entrepreneurial itch any longer. Instead of following the commercial space industry flock to Los Angeles, Shey saw something special in Austin and decided it was the perfect breeding ground for his new company, CesiumAstro. 

For the uninitiated, Cesium builds high-throughput, software-defined phased array communication systems for airborne and in-space platforms. Today's Pathfinder podcast invites CEO Shey Sabripour to break down how phased array antennas work—and why they’re a game changer for satellites and spacecraft trying to communicate with each other and the ground. 

Shey joins us on the show to discuss: 

• Cesium’s origin story 
• A primer on phased array technology 
• Why phased array antennas are the holy grail for satellites 
• The importance of product design 
• Why build in Austin, TX 

And much more…

Today’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro and SpiderOak Ad 

01:09 - Shey's beginnings with the space industry 

03:50 - Cesium and its mission 

10:50 - A layman explaining phased array technology 

16:47 - Use cases for phased arrays 

20:33 - Shift in cost curve 

22:37 - "Phase array antennas are satellites' holy grail" 

23:47 - Cesium's core product offering 

27:05 - Initial customer base 

28:48 - Ad break 

29:40 - Why start Cesium? 

33:24 - The importance of phased array antennas 

35:14 - Learnings from startups and aerospace primes 

38:06 - Why build in Austin? 

40:10 - How can founders building highly technical companies tell their story? 

45:26 - Focusing on product design 

47:58 - What else would you be building if not Cesium? 

49:48 - What startup are you most excited about? 

51:40 - An (unknown) underlying trend in space

• Show notes •

CesiumAstro — https://www.cesiumastro.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. 

Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

The first single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) space plane? That's exactly what we're discussing on this week’s Pathfinder podcast. We interview Livingston Holder, cofounder and CTO of Radian Aerospace, which is developing a fully reusable space plane designed for horizontal launch and landing.

SSTO? Essentially, SSTO vehicles are designed to reach orbit using a single stage without discarding any hardware.

We explore Livingston’s background as a former USAF astronaut as well as the Seattle-based startup’s roadmap to build the world’s first SSTO space transport vehicle. In addition, we cover:

• Radian’s technology advantage
• Cultural and operational shifts in space missions
• Market positioning of SSTO
• Future applications and impact on space ops

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA).

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro & ITA Ad

02:12 Why space?

04:45 The astronaut program

06:06 Culture of NASA vs AF astronauts

07:29 Life after the program

09:24 Livingston's path to Radian

12:39 What is Radian building?

16:05 Unique take off

18:17 Who designed the sled?

19:36 Single-Stage-to-Orbit

23:26 Nozzle extensions

25:10 Why now?

29:12 How Livingston met his cofounder

33:19 Where is Radian today?

38:19 First flight test projection

39:23 Capabilities and market positioning

43:19 Hypersonic travel

47:32 Government and commercial traction

49:41 Direct competitors

52:15 How expensive is it to build Radian's spaceplanes?

54:43 What does Livingston do for fun?

• Show notes •

Radian's website — https://www.radianaerospace.com/

Radian's socials — https://twitter.com/RadianSpace

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

About Epsilon3: The startup has developed an operating system (OS) for space missions. The streamlined software tool helps space companies keep tabs on complex engineering, testing, and operational procedures. Epsilon3’s customers include Inversion, Orbit Fab, Virgin Galactic, Firefly, Stoke, Stratolaunch, and Privateer, among other companies.

And more about our guest : Laura began her space career at Northrop Grumman, before moving on to SpaceX, where she helped put the US back in the human spaceflight biz. She worked on the Dragon ops team and was on the console for the spacecraft’s first flight, its first mission to the ISS, and subsequent commercial crew programs. She also worked on the F9 and Dragon Recovery teams.

*CHAPTERS* 

0:00 — Intro 
3:06 — Putting the US back in the human spaceflight business 
5:12 — Other highlights from Laura's time as a SpaceX'er 
7:43 — The state of play in space mission management 
10:07 — Why are space missions managed and tracked on pen, paper, Word, and Excel? 
15:23 — Quantifying Epsilon3's effectiveness 
19:16 — Building industry tools that everybody needs 
21:53 — The beauty of elegant software tools 
25:13 — When you got started, was it a non-obvious or counterintuitive bet to think the space industry was big enough to support its own software startup? 28:28 — A discussion of Epsilon3's customer base 
31:36 — Meme cameo 
35:12 — Going through Y Combinator 
38:43 — Growing with current users and acquiring new customers 
49:15 — Where the Epsilon3 name cames from

*SHOW NOTES*

Epsilon3’s Website: https://www.epsilon3.io/

Laura's Twitter: https://twitter.com/llcrabbie

Epsilon3’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/epsilon3inc/

Ryan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning 
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings 
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons.

Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

This week on Pathfinder, we sit down with Lindsay Kaldon, NASA’s Fission Surface Power Project Manager, to explore NASA's plans for deploying small nuclear reactors on the Moon and Mars as part of the Artemis missions. Before her current role at NASA, Lindsay spent over a decade in the DoD, where she worked as an Air Force officer specializing in electronic warfare, keeping pilots safe at extreme altitudes. With a background in both electrical and nuclear engineering, Lindsay’s experience spans high-altitude spy planes, drones, and EMP defenses for Navy ships, giving her a unique perspective on technology in extreme environments.

In this episode, Lindsay walks us through NASA's efforts to deploy small nuclear reactors on the Moon as part of the Artemis missions and beyond. She also explains how her defense background prepared her for managing the technical and regulatory complexities of space nuclear power.

In addition, we cover:

• The history of nuclear systems in space, from SNAP-10 to today's advancements
• NASA's collaboration with industry partners
• The role of nuclear power in supporting long-term lunar and Martian missions
• The technical challenges of fission in space
• The potential future of nuclear propulsion and energy solutions for space exploration

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:28 - Lindsey's role at NASA

01:07 - Power reactors in space and when the project started

08:05 - Highly enriched uranium

10:21 - Importance of NASA's long-term nuclear goals

13:53 - RPS vs FSP

16:44 - Lindsey's background

24:14 - Why not work in a nuclear sub?

29:54 - How does the team evolve in the next 5 years?

35:26 - Why should a company bid for phase 1 of NASA's plan to return to the Moon?

38:01 - Overall architecture of NASA's FSP needs

40:43 - Supply chain problems

44:12 - Technical challenges of nuclear in space

50:16 - Who regulates space nuclear?

52:11 - DOD & NASA

57:33 - Milestones to look out for

01:00:21 - The state of nuclear on Earth

• Show notes •

NASA FSP website — https://www.nasa.gov/tdm/fission-surface-power/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Welcome to Pathfinder #0025, brought to you by Spaced Ventures, the planet’s first public space investment portal.

Today, we’ll be talking about what in the world Amazon is up to in space, with someone who can speak to this probably better than almost anyone else on the planet. Clint Crosier served in the US Air Force and Space Force for 33 years, and helped stand up the latter branch. After retiring as a major general, Amazon recruited Clint to lead AWS’s Aerospace and Satellites division.

AWS is short for Amazon Web Services, which you’ll hear a lot in this conversation. For the uninitiated, AWS is the world’s leading cloud computing vendor by market share and revenue. In the last calendar year, Amazon’s cloud unit made $62 billion, representing a 37% year over year increase over 2020. And it posted an $18 billion operating profit.

AWS’s Aerospace & Satellites group announced today that it had achieved a first, by running artificial intelligence/machine learning algorithms on a real-life, orbiting satellite. Clint and Ryan unpack the announcement, and also discuss what his team’s building, who they’re working with, how cloud and space fit together, and a whole lot more.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro 

5:54 - Clint’s résumé and life before AWS 

7:43 - 33 years of “flying satellites and launching rockets” … and the highlight of his career: standing up the US Space Force

13:10 - After leaving the military, career space folks were asking Clint: “Why are you at AWS and what are you trying to accomplish over there?” … and his “light bulb” moment

16:07 - Why is AWS getting into the space industry? … and why cloud penetration within the space industry still in the early innings

23:04 - “The AWS for space is AWS Space” 

25:06 - As it sets up everything from ground segment services to geospatial analytics products, where has the learning curve been steepest for AWS Aerospace & Satellites? (plus…the tyranny of SWAP: size, weight, and power)

27:55 - AWS’s compute + machine-learning experiment on orbit

29:10 - Bringing cloud capabilities to solve real-world space data relay challenges for NASA

36:45 - Processing data on Earth vs processing data in-orbit

41:01 - Cloud and lunar colonization?

44:06 - Case studies: "When I was a young captain flying communications satellites, we would have 20 people on a particular shift flying eight satellites. Today, companies like Capella have two or three people operating 15 satellites.” Lunar Outpost did 100% of its design for a lunar mission using digital AWS tools, and LeoLabs uses the AWS cloud to run very sophisticated collision detection models 

45:15 - SSA and why we need to understand where objects are and what they’re doing on orbit

50:40- Clint’s career role model and his most contrarian view on the future of space

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 12,000+ decision-makers across commercial, civil, and military space. Payload began as a weekly newsletter sent to a handful of friends and colleagues. Today, we have three media properties and publish across multiple platforms. Our team is distributed across four time zones and two continents. We aim to inform but also educate and entertain, and we serve a highly concentrated audience of decision-makers in the commercial, civil, and military space sectors.

And while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons. 

Parallax is our new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

In this week’s pod, we dive into the world of space-based solar power with Baiju Bhatt, co-founder of Robinhood and now founder of Aetherflux, a new startup aiming to change how we think about energy from space. Baiju takes us on his personal journey from building a public company to tackling one of the most ambitious ideas in the space industry. Drawing on a lifelong passion for space—rooted in his father's work at NASA—Baiju reveals how Aetherflux plans to bring to life a 1970s sci-fi vision: harnessing solar power from space to solve Earth’s most pressing energy challenges.

Baiju shares the challenges and excitement of launching Aetherflux, and how his team is taking a modern approach to an old concept by using advanced laser technology and modular satellite networks. We also discuss:

• How Aetherflux is developing the first practical demonstration of space-based solar power
• The major potential applications, from powering forward-deployed military bases to remote mining sites
• How his experience at Robinhood shaped his entrepreneurial philosophy for solving massive challenges like global energy
• Aetherflux’s ambitious timeline for a demo mission in 2026

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:44 - Robinhood to space

03:51 - A father's influence

06:54 - Why Aetherflux?

11:15 - Natural resources in space

12:18 - Why do we need solar power in space?

13:53 - Market and applications for space solar

19:53 - Lasers for power transmission

23:02 - Efficiency gain / loss with space solar

26:06 - Real time power delivery

29:21 - Why not nuclear?

31:37 - Space-based solar for space

32:28 - Safety and regulation

34:37 - Economics of space solar

38:06 - Constellations at scale

39:06 - Early revenue model

40:09 - Competitors

41:05 - Funding

44:05 - An Apple moment

48:19 - Aetherflux team, growth, and goals

49:26 - Space startups that Baiju is excited about

51:20 - Who would Baiju choose to play him in a movie?

• Show notes •

Aetherflux’s website — https://www.aetherflux.com/

Aetherflux’s socials — https://twitter.com/AetherfluxUSA

Baiju’s socials — https://twitter.com/BaijuBhatt

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

VLEO is a term that you don’t hear everyday in the space industry. It refers to “Very Low Earth Orbit,” a region of space that’s roughly twice as close to Earth’s surface as the commonly-used LEO, or “Low Earth Orbit,” where most companies are building their satellite constellations. 

But not Albedo. 

The Austin, TX- and Denver, CO-based startup is changing the architecture of Earth Observation (EO) by operating satellites at an orbital regime in which no other commercial provider is successfully operating.

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Albedo cofounder and CEO Topher Haddad. Haddad spent the initial years of his career at Lockheed Martin, where he developed passive and active remote sensing systems before jumping into the famed startup accelerator Y Combinator to start Albedo.

Why VLEO? Albedo is pushing the boundaries of EO by offering aerial-quality imagery (optical and thermal to start) from space. In Dec. 2021, the company obtained the first commercial NOAA license to sell 10-cm satellite imagery—much higher-res than the 30-cm imagery that was allowed previously. Operating in VLEO enables 10-cm resolution at substantially lower cost than existing government satellites as long as you can solve the propulsion and positioning problem (more on that in the pod!).

Albedo is targeting early 2025 for its first satellite launch with a second launch later that year and several more in 2026. The initial constellation of six satellites is expected to achieve daily revisit, and the full constellation of 24 is intended to eventually reach five revisits per day.

A sneak peek…

Mo and Topher chat about the early days of Albedo, learnings from Lockheed, and building across Austin and Denver. In addition: 

• VLEO: why, what, how?
• A satellite resolution primer
• Albedo product roadmap
• Artificial intelligence in EO
• Market for high-resolution imagery

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and SpiderOak Ad

01:38 - What is Albedo?

03:45 - How did Topher got into EO?

06:32 - The infamous classified tweet

09:19 - Satellite resolution primer

12:11 - Operating in VLEO

14:16 - Technological innovations for VLEO

18:22 - Current product roadmap

20:49 - Why start with optical and thermal?

22:55 - Higher resolution offerings and NOAA license

26:32 - How you approach the government vs commercial customer?

29:59 - SpiderOak Ad break

30:47 - From space to server in under an hour

34:42 - Competitor landscape

36:43 - AI within the EO market

39:42 - Resolution vs revisits?

41:44 - Building the Albedo team

44:43 - Austin vs Denver offices

46:17 - Distributed teams, centralized culture

48:56 - Life at YC

51:39 - Lessons learned at Lockheed

53:09 - What will a VLEO platform enable you to do in the long run?

56:28 - What other companies are you excited about?

57:35 - Albedo's investors: Breakthrough Energy & Shield Capital

• Show notes • 

Albedo's website — https://albedo.com/

Albedo's socials — https://twitter.com/Albedo

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

The startup is promising the world, and then some, with two products to its name: Spacetime & Tightbeam. We bring Aalyria CTO Brian Barritt on the show this week to dig into the startup's vision.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 — Live intro
0:34 — Aalyria has just emerged from stealth
4:17 — Brian's background
9:03 — Spacetime & Tightbeam
14:00 — Demoing the laser
18:41 — Air to ground, space to ground, ground to ground
20:15 — Acquiring Alphabet's tech & going independent 
24:14 — Why now? 
30:31 — Potential deep space applications 
33:35 — What's derisked? And what's not?
38:40 — Commercial viability 
43:29 — End of show Qs ... including the one we've all been dying to know Is Aalyria worried about aliens piggybacking off of its laser beams?

*SHOW NOTES*

Brian's Twitter: https://twitter.com/brianbarritt?lang=en

Aalyria's Twitter: https://twitter.com/AalyriaTech

Company website: https://www.aalyria.com/ (head here for more on Spacetime & Tightbeam)

Ryan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy

*DESCRIPTIONS*

Spacetime description: "Spacetime is a software platform for orchestrating networks of ground stations, aircraft, satellites, ships, and urban meshes. It optimizes and continually evolves the antenna link scheduling, network traffic routing, and spectrum resources — responding in realtime to changing network requirements. Spacetime operates networks across land, sea, air, and space, at any altitude or orbit type, supports all radio frequency bands and optical wavelengths, and it is designed for interoperability with legacy, hybrid space, 5G NTN and FutureG network architectures."

Tightbeam description: "Tightbeam is the world's most advanced coherent light free space optics technology. At rates faster than any other solutions available today and covering greater distances than previously imagined, it moves data intact through the atmosphere and weather, and offers connectivity where no supporting infrastructure exists. Tightbeam radically improves satellite communications, Wi-Fi on planes and ships, and cellular connectivity everywhere."

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons.

Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

And subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Chris Celtruda, CEO of Valence Surface Technologies and Operating Executive at ATL Partners. With over 30 years of leadership experience, Chris offers a masterclass on scaling aerospace & defense businesses and implementing successful management styles.

In addition, Mo and Chris chat: 

• Chris' experience building multiple A&D businesses
• ATL Partners’ new focus on space
• The current investment landscape
• Raising capital in today's market

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

02:10 - How did you get into the space industry?

04:48 - Has the industry changed in El Segundo, CA?

06:30 - What is ATL?

10:10 - What made ATL focus on space?

11:42 - How is ATL different?

13:42 - Chris's management style

17:14 - Selling your vision to an investor

20:32 - Advice for new founders

25:18 - Investing strategies

34:13 - Launch market

37:08 - Is satellite broadband a viable business model?

41:14 - Public space stocks

45:46 - M&A outlook

47:46 - IPO outlook

48:58 - What technology excites you and how would you invest your capital today?

• Show notes • 

ATL's website — https://www.atlpartners.com/

Valence's socials — https://twitter.com/ValenceST

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

By the end of 2023, Satellogic hopes to have 60+ satellites in orbit (and 200+ by 2025). The company made $4.2 million in 2021, the year it began selling and delivering imagery to customers.

Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (https://spideroak-ms.com/), an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro
2:05 - Satellogic’s presence all over the world, from Buenos Aires to the Netherlands
4:35 - What does operating a multinational satellite company look like during a global pandemic? 
6:34 - Emiliano has had the entrepreneurial bug from a young age, since he was programming computers as a 9 year old 
10:42 - The inception story of Satellogic, building a more efficient way to observe Earth and remap the planet, all the way up until 2020
14:49 - What characteristics set Satellogic apart from other smallsat constellations? 
20:22 - Sub meter resolution optical cameras and multispectral cameras being used in object identification and classification in Earth observation (EO)
24:53 - What role do sales and marketing play in reaching new customers in commercial markets?
31:01 - Emiliano’s list of technology and financial trends that made his business possible, from the canonical drop in launch costs to the standardization of launch interfaces and more
37:03 - What are your biggest bottlenecks or constraints: resolution limits or government regulations? 
43:45 - What is a DSC, or dedicated satellite constellation? How does it tie in with space-as-a-service? And why might national governments want to tap DSCs? 
46:33 - Satellogic’s operations over Ukraine and their efforts to aid the country and other NATO members 
50:11 - Being a non-US company listed in the United States, and the positives and negatives of the decision to go public via SPAC (special purpose acquisition company) merger
55:12 - Emiliano’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, on the space industry…His answer The future of the space economy will match the economy on Planet Earth
56:27 - Will Emiliano’s daughter go on to work in the space industry? 
57:26 - Advice for students, especially from the Global South, who are looking to break into the space industry

*SHOW NOTES*

Satellogic's website: https://satellogic.com/ 
Emiliano's Twitter: https://twitter.com/earlkman?lang=en
Emiliano's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekargieman/?originalSubdomain=ar 
Payload's first Q+A with Emiliano: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-interview/
Satellogic and Astraea Ukraine imagery collaboration: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-and-astraea-create-platform-for-ukraine-imagery/
Satellogic launches new satellites on SpaceX's Transporter-4 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-4/
SpaceX's Transporter-5 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-5/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

In today’s Pathfinder podcast, host Mo Islam chats with cofounder and CEO of True Anomaly, Even Rogers. Before founding True Anomaly, Even held a number of different space jobs, including Air Force space operations officer, where he helped lay the foundation for the establishment of the Space Force. While serving, he witnessed a shift within the space community from focusing on counterinsurgency operations to addressing vulnerabilities and threats in space systems amid the rise of China. 

True Anomaly develops spacecraft and software solutions to make space a protected harbor for the US and its allies. They are focusing on offering: operational testing, responsive operations, and space domain awareness. 

Even and Mo talk about the story behind True Anomaly, deterrence in space, and transitioning from the military to Silicon Valley. They also discuss: 

• True Anomaly’s product suite 
• Striking the right balance of former military personnel and engineers 
• Jackal’s demo mission this fall 
• Why VC investors are backing defense companies 
• Security and data integrity in space 

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and ad 

01:50 - Even's journey from the military to Silicon Valley 

08:48 - True Anomaly overview 

12:12 - How did you pick your initial team? 

13:34 - Product overview and roadmap 

16:18 - Upcoming demo mission 

19:07 - Current and future clients 

21:43 - Key metric: cost per maneuver 

25:24 - Autonomy and AI 

28:20 - Security and data integrity 

30:00 - SpiderOak ad break 

30:48 - DoD's focus: "tactical and responsive" 

33:36 - Vertical integration of True Anomaly 

34:23 - Team construction and bridging skill gaps 

38:25 - What has changed in the VC market for space startups? 

44:37 - Deterrence theory in space 

48:52 - Other veteran owned space companies 

49:56 - Why Denver? 

• Show notes • 

True Anomaly's website — https://www.trueanomaly.space/

True Anomaly's socials — https://twitter.com/The_TrueAnomaly 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Welcome to the fifth episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.

Per Escaping Gravity’s cover description, “from inside the space agency, Garver collaborated with key players such as Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and President Obama to usher in a more peaceful, inclusive and meaningful space age.” Lori led the NASA transition team for then-President-elect Barack Obama and would eventually go on to be the second-in-command at the US space agency. During her tenure, Lori was widely credited for ushering in a new era of competition in commercial space.

Now, Lori is a Senior Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, an Executive in Residence at Bessemer Venture Partners, and a member of the Board of Directors for Hydrosat. Garver founded Earthrise Alliance, a philanthropic organization utilizing satellite data to address climate change, and cofounded the Brooke Owens Fellowship, an internship and mentorship program for collegiate women.

Thanks to Lori for coming on Pathfinder, and for being our third video interview! And thanks to SpiderOak Mission Systems for their continued support.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper here.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Show intro 

1:21 - Lori’s résumé

5:09 - Her view of American space exploration with “a very unique window on a very important time in our history” 

6:20 - Looking beyond space to how the nation grapples with complex threats,  COVID-19, and the military industrial complex 

8:44 - SpaceX and the first crewed launch, “it was a relief that it was happening” 

10:34 - Are we in a paradigm shift?  

11:55 - Pushback within NASA and walking the line…“it’s very hard to make meaningful change in government”

14:02 - Dealing with adversity within NASA and justifying the need for spaceflight programs 

18:17 - Former head of NASA proposing to transfer the commercial crew budget and move it to the rocket program, “embedded a conflict between the private sector…. And SLS & Orion” 

19:48 - NASA’s purposes include commercial space development

23:10 - What are cup boys?!

25:09 - Transferring from NASA to industry, aka the revolving door, is “a cycle that’s unhealthy for our nation’s space program” 

28:05 - What are Lori’s key performance indicators (KPIs)

33:20 - Lori on the difficulties of leaving NASA

37:04 - Unpacking “Political science can often be more complicated than rocket science”

41:30 - You don't need a technical background to get into the space industry!

45:29 - Who are the space pirates and space elites now? 

49:04 - Convergence between space and tech industries, and how/whether the two are competing for talent

53:00 - Lori’s thoughts on diversifying the space industry and how thinking differently can drive positive change 

56:16 - Are we going to have an animal metric system for measuring asteroids?

59:05 - Lori’s experience training for space, singing John Denver to help her stay calm during the spinning chair

1:02:40- When will Lori go to space?

*SHOW NOTES*

If you’d like to order a copy of Escaping Gravity, you can find one from a range of retailers at www.lorigarver.com.

For a signed copy, reach out to East City Books at www.eastcitybookshop.com/pre-orders/lori-garver-escaping-gravity

Lori’s socials: @Lori_Garver

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Space's unique environment holds vast potential for biotech advancements, Mark Kugel, co-CEO and cofounder of German space biotech company Yuri, told Payload.

Why space? In this week’s Pathfinder podcast, Mark says that space changes biological systems in commercially valuable ways:

– Complex Cell Development: Enhanced growth results in superior organoids, optimizing drug testing and tissue engineering.

– Crystal Quality and Size: Space improves the formation of protein crystals, bolstering drug discovery and delivery processes.

– Human Aging Effects: Studying space's impact on aging could illuminate early-stage drug solutions for age-driven diseases, such as cancer.

– Microbial Evolution: Space prompts unique microbial adaptations, potentially producing advanced strains and enzymes beneficial for the pharma, food, and agritech sectors.

Yuri’s core innovations:

– Space-ready Bioreactors: Yuri's modular bioreactor system offers a novel approach for cultivating biological materials in space. Compact and transport-friendly, it's tailored for expeditions, including the ISS.

– Ground-Based Space Simulation: Prior to committing to space-bound projects, researchers can utilize Yuri's simulator to anticipate the effects of microgravity on their experiments.

Yuri's partners range from pharmaceutical giants and government agencies to academic institutions. The company has worked with the likes of NASA, ESA, and GSK, the British multinational pharma and biotech company.

A sneak peek…

Before Yuri, Mark Kugel supported the digital transformation of Rolls-Royce Power Systems and built an "Airbnb for consumer products" called Usely. In today’s episode, we chat:

– Yuri’s origin story

– A history of biotech in space

– The initial focus on synbio and drug discovery

– Why space biotech is ready for commercialization

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

01:42 - What does Yuri do?

02:35 - How did Mark get into bio tech and start working at Yuri?

06:06 - Is this industry starting to inflect?

09:31 - What does microgravity enable in biotech?

15:51 - Bacteria in space

18:37 - Space biotech industry now vs. the future

24:23 - Yuri's business model

32:00 - Yuri's team

35:05 - Synbio from the context of space

38:59 - From R&D in space to Earth at scale

41:20 - Milestones at Yuri

42:44 - Yuri's competitors

44:07 - Why is Germany the right place to build?

46:03 - Government use case

47:10 - Yuri in 10-20 years

48:33 - Space tech that Mark is excited about

49:26 - When is Yuri's next project launching?

• Show notes •

Yuri's website — https://yurigravity.com/

Yuri' socials — https://twitter.com/yurigravity

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Phantom Space cofounder and CEO Jim Cantrell. The Tucson-based space transportation company is focused on the mass production of rockets. Jim began his career at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Lab and the French Space Agency (CNES), working on Mars exploration technologies and a joint French-Soviet Mars program​​. He was a founding member of SpaceX, serving as its first VP of business development. He later co-founded Moon Express, a company focused on commercial lunar robotic transportation​ and Vector Space, a micro-launch vehicle company​.

Phantom primer: Phantom's strategy focuses around a central idea: mass production of rockets. Instead of going all-in on vertical integration, Cantrell's choosing to leverage the expertise of outside specialists for key technology—for example, propulsion company Ursa Major is fueling Phantom's rocket engines. By providing some but not all the R&D, the company can operate with a substantially leaner core staff. 

The thought is that this mass-produced, “Henry Ford”-like development and production approach will substantially lower costs and increase efficiency. Cantrell says that Phantom’s price tag to get to space will be roughly $100M, substantially lower than competitors. The company’s product roadmap includes:

• The Daytona, which is a two-stage rocket designed to deliver payloads up to 450 kgs to LEO, is​ expected to first launch in late 2024/early 2025.
• Its larger sibling, Laguna, has a planned lift capacity of 1,200 kgs to LEO with the first launch expected in 2027. The Laguna will have both an expendable and reusable configuration for its first stage similar to SpaceX's Falcon 9.

In addition to Phantom’s early days, Mo and Jim discuss: 

• The infamous Elon and Russian ICBM story
• Learnings from Vector
• The evolution of venture capitalists and space
• Pros/cons of vertical integration
• Team construction

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and SpiderOak Ad

01:30 - Jim, Elon, and Russia

07:05 - Why did Elon reach out to you at the time?

09:48 - What is Phantom Space?

15:32 - Relying on an external supply chain

17:38 - To vertically integrate, or not to vertically integrate?

21:17 - Development timelines

26:07 - Other products outside of launch

28:08 - Team construction

34:52 - SpiderOak Ad break

35:40 - Vector: What went well and what were the key challengers?

42:16 - Space VCs: then vs now

49:55 - What company are you most excited about?

51:29 - Alternative methods to reach orbit

53:43 - Is it harder to build a new launch vehicle or a winning Formula 1 car?

• Show notes • 

Phantom's website — https://www.phantomspace.com/

Phantom's socials — https://twitter.com/PhantomSpaceC

Jim's socials — https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Space travel is about to get a lot more accessible. At least, that’s what Space Perspective cofounders and co-CEOs Taber MacCallum and Jane Poynter are saying. The company’s aim is to provide the quintessential astronaut experience to as many people as possible, focusing not on the rocket ride or microgravity, but on the view of Earth from space.

In today’s Pathfinder podcast, Mo chats with both Taber and Jane from Space Perspective’s HQ near Cape Canaveral, FL. They discuss:

• Taber and Jane’s life’s work supporting crewed spacecraft
• The origins of Space Perspective
• The importance of seeing Earth from above
• The advantages of balloon-based tourism
• Space Perspective vs. competitors
• The future of space tourism
• And much more…

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and SpiderOak Ad 

01:15 - Space Perspective overview

08:22 - Taber & Jane's background

16:53 - The conceptual beginnings of Space Perspective

21:05 - Safety systems

25:24 - SpiderOak Ad Break

26:30 - Pricing, target market, target customer

30:50 - First commercial flight?

32:02 - The feeling of weightlessness

33:20 - Handling anxious clients

36:02 - Launch logistics

39:40 - Advantages of launching from a ship

41:00- Regulatory considerations

43:10 - The long-term vision

44:30 - A pioneer in the space industry

48:15 - StratEx launch

54:45 - Who are you taking to space?

• Show notes • 

Space Perspective's website — https://spaceperspective.com/

Space Perspective's socials — https://twitter.com/SpacePerspectiv

Dr. Robert Zubrin on "Why Mars?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S6k2LBJhac

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Every quarter, Lux Capital, a leading venture capital firm known for investing in hard science and deep tech startups, publishes their investor letter offering a unique opportunity to gain insight into the firm's investment thesis and strategy. The firm has been an early supporter of the space industry with early bets in companies like Relativity Space, Epsilon3, Impulse Space, Astranis, Kymeta, Varda, Planet, and Hadrian.

This week’s Pathfinder features a deep dive on the firm’s latest Q3 letter with General Partner Shahin Farshchi. In addition to Shahin’s own background, the conversation covers:

• Lux’s fundraise success having recently closed Lux 8, a $1.15B venture fund
• The firm’s investment thesis emphasizing the importance of non-consensus hypotheses
• Geopolitical shifts and how they’re impacting long-term investing
• The role of media and the importance of informative and nuanced reporting

And much more…

Lux's Q3 Investor Letter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s5xiwjG9psi6xRQPsAcI-I7-g6k5Pe--/view

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Guest Intro & SpiderOak Ad

01:18 - The Lux 8 fundraise

02:33 - Shahin's background

06:38 - How was Lux started

10:10 - The firm’s structure

11:48 - A&D over the next decade

15:30 - Investment highlights

17:35 - Geopolitical shifts

19:57 - A look at American Dynamism

23:41 - Do you need to be a scientist to be a deep tech investor?

27:03 - A thesis-driven strategy

33:05 - Advice for emerging managers

39:11 - The role of media

42:33 - Starship launch predictions

43:17 - The second most valuable space company

• Show notes •

Lux's website — https://www.luxcapital.com/

Lux's socials — https://twitter.com/Lux_Capital

Shahin's socials — https://twitter.com/Farshchi

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Our guest this week, Tim Kienberger, has been at the forefront of the industry's evolution from large-scale satellite buses to the small satellite revolution. As the current CEO of LeoStella, a joint venture between Thales Alenia Space and BlackSky, he is helping the company redefine small satellite manufacturing.

In today's episode, Tim reveals insights into the production of small satellites and the unique challenges of managing a joint venture. In addition, we discuss:

• LeoStella’s origin story
• Cislunar spacecraft needs
• The impact of Starship on small satellites
• Scaling challenges of small sat startups

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Introduction

00:22 - Tim's career overview

02:40 - Thales/Blacksky JV

06:56 - Core offerings and customer makeup

09:01 - Current demand

12:19 - Product roadmap

14:03 - Capability needs from LEO to cislunar

17:53 - Government customers

19:50 - Balancing customization vs standardization

23:18 - Production hurdles

26:16 - Competitive landscape

27:36 - Challenges for new startups

31:32 - Impact of Starship on the small sat market

40:18 - Long-term funding needs

42:19 - What would Tim be doing if he wasn't in the space industry

• Show notes •

LeoStella's website — https://leostella.com/

LeoStella's socials — https://twitter.com/LeoStellaLLC

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Brian D’Erario, the man who keeps the lights on at Payload as the Director of Client Partnerships. Brian’s role is to bring in all the revenue that makes everything at Payload possible (no pressure, Brian!).  With experience working with over 97 partners, Brian has been instrumental in shaping Payload's approach to brand awareness and lead generation.

Brian shares his journey from selling B2B hardware and software to government contractors, to his time at Morning Brew, and finally joining Payload to drive partnerships in the space sector. We explore Brian's background, including his work with various industries and his insights into the unique challenges of marketing within the space industry. We also discuss:

• The marketing strategies that space companies often overlook
• The importance of brand awareness even during the R&D phase
• How startups can compete with the primes
• The role of content in engaging B2B audiences
• Effective conference strategies for maximizing impact

And much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:04 - What does Brian do at Payload?

01:51 - Brian's background

04:33 - Morning Brew

08:09 - Initial assessment of space marketing strategies

10:39 - Do space companies market themselves well?

12:27 - Marketing your product before you start selling

19:46 - Brand awareness vs lead generation

27:40 - When does it make sense for a startup to spend money on marketing?

31:44 - How can a startup develop a marketing plan for a product that competes against a prime competitor?

34:46 - Creating engaging B2B content

41:31 - Agency vs in-house

43:39 - Conference strategies

47:44 - The Marketing Playbook

52:53 - Brian’s publication

55:11 - Partnerships consultant

57:15 - From hockey to pickleball

• Show notes •

Brian’s Marketing Newsletter — https://payloadspace.com/marketing-deep-tech-newsletter/

Brian’s socials — https://twitter.com/derariob

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Let's talk about geodesic dome habitats, concert halls in microgravity, space cathedrals, and a real-life Starfleet Academy. Our guest, Ariel Ekblaw, has been thinking about these topics and actively prototyping these ideas for a long time. Ultimately, she leads a number of initiatives focused on preparing humanity to become a thriving space-faring species. 

Bio in brief: Ariel is director of the MIT Space Exploration Initiative (SEI), as well as the cofounder and CEO of the Aurelia Institute. Situated within the MIT Media Lab, SEI supports 40+ research projects and includes a team of 50+ students, staff, and faculty. 

As for the Aurelia Institute, which is Ariel’s quote-unquote “new thing”...well, it’s a nonprofit space architecture R&D lab, education & outreach center, and policy hub. Ariel tells Ryan a bit more about what the institute has cooking for 2023.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a new sponsor. Kepler is bringing the internet to space, and developing the infrastructure to support out-of-this-world communications. Find out more at https://kepler.space/

Chapters

00:00 Pathfinder’s new music 

02:13 Welcome, Ariel 

04:58 Media Lab’s mission 

05:59 MIT Space Exploration Initiative 

08:37 Engineers, artists, and scientists working together 

10:39 Parabolic, suborbital, and orbital flights 

11:44 What sci-fi works does Ariel draw inspiration from? 

14:18 Taking an idea from conception to launch 

17:26 The Aurelia Institute’s three main pillars 

20:40 TESSERAE + self-assembling space architecture 

24:27 New technology that pairs nicely with TESSERAE

27:30 Swarm technology 

28:57 Biomimicry 

31:00 How would you use Starship or another next-generation launcher? 

32:24 Anthropomorphic technology for space 

35:56 The AI Age + space 

41:34 Democratization…“Let’s take back the [redacted] word”...and expanding accessibility in space 

44:37 The gateway drug to space exploration 

49:21 Advice for young listeners looking to make a dent in the universe 

Links

Aurelia – https://www.aureliainstitute.org/

Aurelia Part 2 — https://payloadspace.com/a-conversation-with-ariel-ekblaw/

Ariel’s Twitter — https://twitter.com/ariel_ekblaw

Bio — https://www.media.mit.edu/people/aekblaw/overview/

TESSERAE — https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/tesserae-self-assembling-space-architecture/overview/

Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6 // Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

About us

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. 

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Andy is the CEO and cofounder of Stoke Space, a startup that aims to build 100% reusable rockets. The startup raised a $9.1M seed round in 2020, graduated from Y Combinator's Winter 2021 batch, and then announced a $65M Series A in December. All the while, Stoke has been moving quickly to build a completely new kind of rocket.

Today’s episode is sponsored by Spaced Ventures, which recently launched an effort to open an investment round into SpaceX. The space investment portal has received over $38M million in pledges from 2,150+ investors. Find out more at https://www.spacedventures.com/

*CHAPTERS* 

01:57 — Andy's resume, from Cornell to Blue Origin and beyond 
06:54 — Leaving Blue and thinking through what's next 
08:36 — Thesis, team, & track record 
12:06 — An engineering challenge, not a science problem 
15:52 — Escaping Earth's gravity well is no small feat 
18:36 — $$$ 
22:18 — Analogy from the high seas and 200 years ago 
24:02 — What Stoke is doing differently ... and @ 24:55 the unsolved problem 
28:38 — The most novel part to Stoke's approach 
33:24 — Speed, vertical integration, and tightly coupled systems 
37:21 — The test stand in Moses Lake, Washington 
39:44 — Fundraising, from the seed round to a $65M Series A 
40:15 — Sustainability 
52:45 — Testing + developing a reusable second stage 
1:00:49 — Stoke in a post-Starship world 
1:04:05 — Who will the customers be?

*SHOW NOTES* 

Stoke Space’s website: https://www.stokespace.com/ 
Stoke Space’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/stoke_space 
Andy’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/AndyLapsa 
Ryan’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy
Payload’s Stoke Space coverage: https://payloadspace.com/stoke-series-a/ 

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings 
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons.

Parallax is our new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about us at https://payloadspace.com/

In the final Pathfinder episode of the year, Mo brings Payload’s editorial staff into the hot seat(s) to discuss the most significant stories of 2023 and share predictions for 2024!

In addition to each team member’s trajectory to Payload, we discuss:

• The shortage in launch supply
• Starship and the mainstream media’s reaction
• The Chandrayaan-3 lunar landing (and other Moon-related news)
• The state of space companies in public markets
• Orbital debris and the evolution of policy
• The evolution of DoD vs NASA budgets

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

01:31 - Rachael + Payload

04:24 - Jacqueline + Payload

05:56 - Jack + Payload

09:19 - Jack's Top Story of the Year

10:29 - Jacqueline's Top Story of the Year

13:28 - Rachael's Top Story of the Year

15:01 - Why is it still so hard on the Moon?

17:42 - The launch shortage

22:21 - Media coverage around Starship

29:30 - Is the market spot on with Where Space Companies Should Be Trading?

32:20 - Jack's analysis on companies' cash flow

34:00 - SpiderOak Ad Break

34:47 - Jacqueline's policy stories

38:07 - Orbital debris

40:56 - Space tugging and de-orbiting market

44:14 - The Kessler Syndrome

46:35 - Why does the Space Force have a bigger budget than NASA?

50:01 - Jacqueline's predictions

52:11 - Why Jacqueline believes 2024 is the year for debris

53:13 - Rachael's predictions

54:46 - Timing of the first commercial Moon landing

55:48 - Moon vs Mars

58:03 - Jack's predictions

59:29 - ULA buyers

01:01:58 - Jack's favorite space TV show/book

01:03:01 - Rachael's favorite space TV show/book

01:03:29 - Jacqueline's favorite space TV show/book

• Show notes •

Jacqueline's socials — https://twitter.com/jacqfeldscher

Rachael's socials — https://twitter.com/RachaelZisk

Jack's socials — https://twitter.com/JackKuhr

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

This week on Pathfinder, we explore the world of satellite deployment and launch services with Robert Sproles, CEO of Exolaunch. Exolaunch is a leader in satellite integration, offering launch services and deployment solutions for commercial and government clients.

We explore how Exolaunch has built a cashflow-positive business with a remarkable track record of reliability, all without external funding. In addition, we discuss:

• Exolaunch's founding story and its bootstrapped growth from a university project in Berlin to a $100M revenue company
• How Exolaunch navigates partnerships with major launch providers like SpaceX, Rocket Lab, and Ariane
• Robert’s insights on the demand for satellite launches and the need for diversity in orbital access
• Exolaunch's plans for the future, including scaling to support larger satellites and expanding their U.S. operations
• The broader ecosystem of launch services and how larger rockets like Starship and New Glenn fit into the market

And much more...

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:30 - Robert's background

08:13 - What is Exolaunch and the products offered?

10:02 - Founding of Exolaunch and building a company without the need for raising capital

14:09 - Bootstrap from day one and future funding plans

16:35 - From Arkansas to Germany

19:02 - Robert transitioning to CEO

21:16 - Current market for rideshare, deployment, and mission management

23:45 - What is different about Exolaunch?

25:48 - Are more launch companies good for Exolaunch and is SpaceX a monopoly?

27:02 - Are transporter missions anti-competitive to other launch companies?

30:13 - Future satellite trends

31:42 - How larger launch vehicles affect Exolaunch

33:33 - Is the launch market supplier demand constrained?

35:35 - How do non-American operators feel about using American launch providers?

37:39 - What does reliability look like?

40:08 - Exolaunch's agility

43:34 - Missions that pushed the boundaries of Exolaunch's capabilities

45:36 - Exolaunch headcount and future plans

46:32 - Growth areas

47:37 - 10+ year outlook

49:07 - What does Robert do outside of Exolaunch?

52:26 - Places to eat in Little Rock, Arkansas

• Show notes •

Exolaunch’s website — https://exolaunch.com/

Freeform’s socials — https://twitter.com/Exolaunch

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today’s Pathfinder episode features AstroForge cofounder and CEO Matt Gialich. The CA-based startup is developing technology to mine asteroids for platinum group metals. The company plans to use an uncrewed spacecraft to extract and refine the metals directly on the asteroid before returning to Earth with a sellable metal.

Why platinum? The platinum group metals have unique physical and chemical properties that make them critical to everything from catalytic converters to electronics. According to Gialich, the US has a dwindling supply of platinum group ore reserves, and Russia and China control a significant supply of global stocks. But there’s hope in the heavens: a single one-kilometer-diameter M-type (primarily composed of metallic iron and nickel) asteroid could contain more platinum than has been mined in the history of humanity, Gialich said.

So far…AstroForge launched a refinery demo this spring and plans to launch a prospecting mission in October where they will physically go to an asteroid to map and monitor the surface. Future missions will include excavation and finally mining.

A sneak peek…Mo and Matt discuss:

• The history of landing on asteroids
• The basics of asteroid mining
• The economics of mining off-planet
• Legal and regulatory considerations

And much more… 

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and SpiderOak ad

02:07 - The early days of AstroForge

02:51 - Why asteroid mining today?

06:58 - Cofounder backgrounds

08:14 - Asteroid mining 101

11:48 - Platinum group metals

13:10 - Historical asteroid missions

17:23 - Refining materials on an asteroid

20:51 - Upcoming mission

22:33 - How unique is AstroForge's technology?

24:48 - Mission risks

27:32 - SpiderOak ad break

28:19 - Economics of asteroid mining

33:59 - AstroForge's first mission

34:31 - Outlook for the next few missions

34:55 - Scaling plans after a successful first mission

37:22 - Capital intensity of the venture

39:42 - Team construction

41:12 - Competition

42:13 - Legal & regulatory considerations of mining

46:30 - 10-year vision

49:28 - Future technologies for easier asteroid mining

51:27 - Favorite space companies

• Show notes • 

AstroForge's website — https://www.astroforge.io/

AstroForge's socials — https://twitter.com/astroforge

Matt's socials — https://twitter.com/MattGialich

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

ABL Space is heading back to the pad after a power failure prevented its maiden launch attempt from reaching orbit last January. The company, known for its innovative approach to ground infrastructure by containerizing its launch system, aims to launch its RS1 rocket by the year's end.

This week's Pathfinder podcast features Dan Piemont, the cofounder, President, and CFO of the LA-based launch startup. Mo and Dan delve into the lessons learned from the company's initial launch attempt and the improvements made to the RS1 and GS0 ground system. In addition, they discuss:

• How ABL differentiates itself in the market
• Current supply/demand dynamics of launch
• Rideshare packaging efficiency
• Plans after Flight 2

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad

01:56 - Dan’s background

02:34 - History of ABL

05:05 - What differentiates ABL?

08:23 - Regulation surrounding mobile launch systems

10:08 - Flight 1, what happened?

13:56 - Key improvements on Flight 2

18:12 - Risks of diving into Block 2

20:53 - Plans after Flight 2

21:29 - Increasing launch cadence

24:52 - Traction between government and commercial customers

26:43 - Is heavier launch in ABL’s future?

28:20 - SpiderOak Ad

29:07 - Supply and demand dynamics

32:56 - Rideshare packaging efficiency

42:51 - Lack of high cadence in the industry

44:30 - What are investors currently looking for in the market?

48:12 - Creating momentum after Flight 1

• Show notes • 

ABL's website — https://ablspacesystems.com/

ABL's socials — https://twitter.com/ablspacesystems

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

The cost to build a mass scale propellant production system on the Moon? Much less than $100M according to Starpath cofounder and CEO Saurav Shroff. The LA-based startup is developing the infrastructure for lunar resource extraction—including a power plant, a fleet of rovers, and a processing plant.

In this episode, Saurav breaks down Starpath's approach to off-planet fuel production and how it can enable cost-effective and reusable space travel. He also shares his thoughts on the future of lunar and Martian colonization and how propellant production plays a pivotal role in making interplanetary travel economically viable.

We also discuss:

• The technical hurdles of producing propellant on the Moon and Mars
• The impact of propellant production on reducing the cost of space travel
• The potential customers and business models
• How Starpath’s approach complements the vision of companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin
• The long-term vision for a human presence on the Moon and Mars, and what it will take to get there

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:25 - What is Startpath?

04:11 - How was Starpath founded?

07:28 - The team

08:55 - Starpath with and without SpaceX

13:20 - Mega scale propellant production

16:30 - What type of propellant is Starpath making?

20:15 - What is Starpath building?

24:56 - Why build this power system yourself and why not nuclear?

28:56 - Plant & Rover

35:35 - Plan for success

39:59 - Speculation on SpaceX's propellant production

43:49 - Who else is a potential customer?

45:49 - Revenue model

48:27 - Investors and common misconceptions

50:26 - Capital needs

51:43 - Competitors? China?

54:37 - First fuel production prediction

56:03 - 10-year vision

58:16 - Other businesses Saurav is excited about

1:00:17 - Which celebrity will play Saurav?
 

• Show notes •

Starpath’s website — https://starpath.space/

Starpath’s socials — https://twitter.com/StarpathSpace

Sarah’s socials — https://twitter.com/SauravShroff5

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today is Opposite Day at Pathfinder. Rather than interview someone, Ryan himself is sitting down in the hot seat to take an hour’s worth of questions. Our guest host is cofounder Mo Islam. Though he’s Ryan’s coworker, he’s also his boss and a fair, unsparing interviewer.

Pathfinder #0021 is brought to you by Spaced Ventures, the planet’s first space investment portal. Spaced Ventures recently launched an effort to open an investment round into SpaceX, and as of this writing, has received $36.6M+ in pledges from more than 2,050 investors.

Okay, here we go…Today’s guest is Ryan Duffy, the managing editor of Payload and host of Pathfinder. Our discussion with Ryan peels back the curtain to offer an inside look into how the ever-growing Payload newsroom operates.

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Launching the daily Payload newsletter and what we’ve learned one year in
• Ryan’s experience creating Morning Brew’s second product
• Digital media startups and newsletter-first distribution models
• Evolving from curation to original reporting and analysis
• Popular narratives vs. what’s actually happening in the space industry
• Who we write for at Payload and how we see our audience
• Ryan launders the best insights and talking points from previous Pathfinder alumni
• Hype cycles in space and other emerging technology-dominant industries
• What’s next for Payload 👀👀👀

…there’s plenty of range in this conversation, from running a mile every day for 1,000+ days in a row, to getting hit by a car, to wanting to be a garbage man rather than an astronaut as a child (hence the thumbnail). We hope you enjoy the convo and learn something new about Payload.

*SHOW NOTES*

Mo's Twitter: https://twitter.com/itsmoislam
Ryan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand, and while we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish: 

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, every Monday to Friday morning 
2) Pathfinder, this podcast, on Tuesday mornings 
3) ...and 💫Parallax!💫 on Thursday afternoons. 

Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

Subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at www.payloadspace.com

What’s it like running a $11 billion dollar space business at a publicly traded company and managing a team of nearly 22,000? Or what about building the Orion spacecraft that just finished a 25-day trip around the Moon, and will carry astronauts on its next mission? In Pathfinder #0028, we'll get the answers to those questions and a whole lot more with Robert Lightfoot, the executive vice president of Lockheed Martin Space and former acting NASA administrator.

Today's episode is brought by Altek Space, which provides custom manufacturing of essential parts and components for rockets and satellites (including SmallSats). Find out more at https://www.altek-inc.com/space

Robert leads the LM Space business, which is one of the four major divisions of its parent company. The $11 billion business line builds space technology systems for defense, civil, and commercial space customers. Its portfolio ranges from integrated systems for satellites to space-based missile defense capabilities to space observatories to interplanetary robotic spacecraft.

Robert became EVP of LM Space on Jan. 1, 2022, so he’s coming up on his one-year anniversary. Prior to Lockheed, Robert spent 29 years at NASA, holding a variety of leadership roles and rising up the ranks to become associate administrator, the highest ranking civil service position at the agency. He served as the 11th director of NASA Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama.

*SNEAK PEEK*

Though Robert is from Alabama, went to Bama, and led one of NASA’s key centers in the state, somehow we didn’t cover college football at all. But we did cover: 

• An Artemis I postmortem and Orion’s performance during the mission 
• Leading large organizations, first in the government and then at a Fortune 500 company
• “Protect, connect, and explore” as organizational guideposts 
• Building space hardware at scale 
• Recruiting and the importance of talent

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 intro
3:51 Starting in space
10:25 Engineer to leader
19:30 Artemis I and Orion
31:52 LM Space's portfolio..."protect, connect, and explore"
41:05 Being part of a public company 
46:19 Cost-plus vs. fixed-price contracts
49:00 Future projects you're excited about
54:32 Lightning round

*SHOW NOTES*

Full bio: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/leadership-governance/robert-lightfoot.html

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-lightfoot-lm-space

Website: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space.html

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/LMSpace

NDSA explainer: https://payloadspace.com/ndsa-explainer/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 12,000+ decision-makers across commercial, civil, and military space. Payload began as a weekly newsletter sent to a handful of friends and colleagues. Today, we have three media properties and publish across multiple platforms. Our team is distributed across four time zones and two continents. We aim to inform but also educate and entertain, and we serve a highly concentrated audience of decision-makers in the commercial, civil, and military space sectors.

Today's episode is sponsored by Altek Space, which provides custom manufacturing of essential parts and components for rockets and satellites (including SmallSats). Find out more at https://www.altek-inc.com/space

Our guest host is Tess Hatch, a former aerospace engineer and current partner at Bessemer Venture Partners, where she invests in all things deep tech with a particular focus on the space industry. She’s backed industry-leading space companies like Spire Global ($SPIR) and Rocket Lab ($RKLB). Today, Tess is coming for Ryan’s job at the helm of Pathfinder.

The interviewee: Payload’s own Rachael Zisk. Rachael joined the Payload team as our fourth employee in the early days of the daily newsletter and has been working to shape our coverage of the space industry ever since. She’s also the author of Parallax, Payload’s weekly newsletter covering all things space science.

This week’s episode runs the gamut from the inner workings of Payload to musings on the future of the space industry. 

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Rachael’s roots in storytelling 
• The duck boat photographer to science writer pipeline 
• Joining Payload as employee #4 
• The highs and lows of the daily newsletter biz 
• Two key ways to determine the success of a Payload story 
• Plus: who Rachael would bring to space, the rocket she would take, and what her next Payload deep dive might cover.

*CHAPTERS*

01:12 Intro 
03:05 Origin story...also, what's a duckboat? 
04:23 Path to becoming a space reporter 
07:06 How'd you end up at Payload? 
10:40 Best part of the job, and where there's room for improvement 
15:19 Day in the life 
18:26 What makes Payload stand out to its readers? 
21:13 The orbital debris dilemma 
26:35 Why isn't MEO popular? (MEO = medium Earth orbit) 
26:59 Rachael's next deep dive topic 
33:05 Predictions for 2023 
36:32 Tess's thoughts about 2023 
41:34 Common misconception about Payload 
43:43 Rapid fire questions 

*SHOW NOTES*

Parallax: https://parallax.payloadspace.com/subscribe 

Rachael’s socials: https://twitter.com/rachaelzisk / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachaelzisk/ 

Tess’ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tesshatch/ / https://www.bvp.com/team/tess-hatch 

Rachael’s Payload profile: https://payloadspace.com/author/rachael-zisk/ 

Ada Ride’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ada_ride/?hl=en

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 12,000+ decision-makers across commercial, civil, and military space. Payload began as a weekly newsletter sent to a handful of friends and colleagues. Today, we have three media properties and publish across multiple platforms. Our team is distributed across four time zones and two continents. We aim to inform but also educate and entertain, and we serve a highly concentrated audience of decision-makers in the commercial, civil, and military space sectors.

Fresh off of a $95M Series B funding round, this week we bring back Ian Cinnamon, CEO of Apex, on to the show. Ian, along with his co-founder Max Benassi, started Apex to address the bottleneck in satellite bus manufacturing. Apex is revolutionizing the small satellite bus market with its productized approach and rapid manufacturing capabilities. 

Our conversation explores Ian’s journey from concept to scaling production, including:

• The Series B funding round and its implications
• Apex's mission to become the leading supplier of satellite buses
• Challenges and strategies in scaling production
• Importance of maintaining a product-focused model
• Insights into the evolving satellite bus market
• The future vision for Apex

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro & 100th episode!

02:42 - Apex origin story

03:59 - Changes between funding rounds

05:12 - Key factors in raising $95m

06:40 - Financing needs of Apex

07:35 - Current fundraising environment

09:07 - Market opportunity of satellite buses

10:55 - Is there serious demand for buses if you take out Starlink?

16:05 - Winning niche for contracts

17:53 - How Apex separates itself from competitors

19:27 - SpaceX's bus building capabilities

21:04 - Plans beyond LEO

22:06 - Apex naming scheme

23:49 - Mission 1

28:23 - First expectations for Mission 1

30:10 - Mission 1 timeline

32:24 - Combatting the unreliability of the current state of launch

37:03 - Balancing Apex's needs and the government's

40:42 - Impending government contract win?

41:53 - Why Apex built an e-commerce workflow

44:22 - Scaling

48:09 - Team size and expansion goals at Apex

49:34 - What kind of capital would Apex need to be self-sustainable

51:56 - Advice for prospective founders

53:15 - Long-term vision, 10 years out

55:53 - Who is playing Ian in the movie about Apex?

• Show notes •

Apex’s website — https://www.apexspace.com/

Apex’s socials — https://twitter.com/ApexSpacecraft

Ian’s socials — https://twitter.com/IanCinnamon

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Jim served as the 13th administrator of NASA and spearheaded the launch of the Artemis program. During Jim’s watch, the US also returned to launching its own astronauts to orbit from US soil (with SpaceX). Jim’s bio will be familiar to most space buffs in Payload and Pathfinder’s audience, so in our convo, we dig a bit deeper on his backstory, get a status report on Artemis, and take a closer look at his current roles in the commercial space ecosystem.

Today's episode is brought to you by Altek Space, a custom manufacturer of essential parts and components for rockets and satellites.

*SNEAK PEEK*

• Serving as a US Navy aviator; landing on aircraft carriers; and TOP GUN…real life vs. the movie
• Jim’s involvement in the Rocket Racing League and his time at the helm of the Tulsa Air and Space Museum and Planetarium
• Serving in the US House as a representative of the 1st District of Oklahoma (and his HASC and SST committee membership)
• Working with an office of “space knuckleheads”—Jim uses that term endearingly—and honing his aerospace policy chops while on Capitol Hill
• Why going to the Moon vs. going to Mars was once an either-or, partisan debate on the Hill
• Jim’s time leading NASA, architecting the Artemis program, and
• His post-NASA space involvement (which includes advisory or trustee roles with Voyager, Viasat, Phase Four, The Aerospace Corporation, Firefly, and Acorn Growth Companies)

This is our longest show to date and for good reason. We had a lot of ground to cover, and yet we still didn’t get to Pathfinder’s planned segment about boots on Mars. Check out the episode and let us know what you’d want to hear in a Part 2.

*CHAPTERS*

02:54 Guest intro
03:11 Jim's office photos
03:37 Top Gun inspiration
04:50 Does it surprise you the Navy wouldn't let Tom Cruise fly a jet?
06:29 Journey into aviation, experience in the military, and using space assets in combat
13:41 Rocket Racing League
22:07 Trying to bring one of the Space Shuttles to Tulsa
24:55 Time as an elected official
31:51 American Space Renaissance Act
37:05 Difference between approving NASA funding and running it
42:48 Moon vs. Mars - why was it either-or and at times partisan?
45:23 Why we should outsource some space functions to the private sector
48:26 Artemis vs. Apollo
54:32 Artemis I splashdown
56:29 Advising space companies and organizations
1:06:00 2022's biggest space story
1:09:36 Worried about a shakeout in space markets?

*SHOW NOTES*

NASA's Artemis program: https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/
American Space Renaissance Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4945/text
Firefly: https://payloadspace.com/firefly-production-ramp/
Phase Four: https://payloadspace.com/phase-four-production/
Rocket Racing League: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket\_Racing\_League
US return to space: https://payloadspace.com/netflix-releases-return-to-space/
Ryan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy — & LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/
Payload's Twitter: https://twitter.com/payloadspace — & LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 12,000+ decision-makers across commercial, civil, and military space.

Today’s guest is Jordan Noone, the cofounder and founding CTO of Relativity Space. Noone now holds the same titles at Embedded Ventures, a self-described deeptech VC “skunkworks” that Noone runs with cofounder Jenna Bryant. Embedded Ventures has partnered with the US Space Force on R&D, and backed early-stage startups like Slingshot Aerospace and Inversion. Jordan is also the cofounder and CEO of KittyCAD, which aims to reinvent how engineers and companies create hardware products. 

On the Relativity front, Jordan helped scale up the company’s additive manufacturing capabilities and hone the rest of the startup’s tech stack. Today, Relativity’s Terran 1 is vertical on the pad in Florida for final tests, before the company conducts an orbital launch attempt this summer. Terran 1 is a 110-foot-tall expendable rocket, and according to Relativity, the largest 3D printed object to exist and to attempt orbital flight. Relativity’s first Terran 1 is 85% 3D printed by mass.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, (http://www.spideroak-ms.com) an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space whitepaper at spacecyber.com

 *SNEAK PEEK*

And now without further ado, here’s a glimpse into the range of discussion topics in today’s episode:

• Background in brief
• Jordan’s rebellious streaks as a student and his take on medieval history
• Heading up USC’s Rocket Propulsion Lab, a finishing school for rocket junkies
• Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX
• Meeting cofounder Tim Ellis (who was on Pathfinder #0009)
• Becoming the youngest person to get an FAA license to launch a rocket to space
• Getting accepted into and graduating from Y Combinator (YC W16, to be exact)
• The advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts
• All the other aspects of Relativity’s tech stack that differentiate it from other rocket makers
• Why Jordan left Relativity after roughly five years
• Bringing the design and product ethos of Silicon Valley to the world of defense
• Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor
• Market conditions and what Jordan’s seeing with pricing rounds, startup valuations, etc.
• The downstream effects of space SPACs on future industry financing
• Conflicted cap tables and the geopolitical aspects of venture capital
• Leading KittyCAD, which brings software automation to the hardware world
• Building the Stripe of the hardware world

…and much more! This was a long one, and there’s plenty of other great nuggets and stories buried in the full episode. We’ll leave it to you to discover them yourselves.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Intro and Jordan’s background in brief

02:05 - Rundown of Jordan’s résumé left of starting Relativity, from rebellious streaks as a student to his take on medieval history

06:15 - How did the USC administration react to a group of students trying to do something that few other countries, let alone college students, had ever done? 

09:59 - Meeting Tim Ellis, Relativity’s cofounder and current CEO (and a Pathfinder alum…Tim joined us on episode #0009)

11:15 - Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX … and how SpaceX gives its early-stage employees an impressive amount of substantive projects. 

13:50 - Jordan was the first student to receive what?!  

14:04 - One does not simply launch a rocket into space. We give a glimpse into the hoops that you need to jump through, from calling NORAD to filling out reams of legal paperwork, to launch a rocket into space

19:10 - Starting a multi-billion dollar company at 22, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, and going through Y Combinator (Relativity was in the YC W16 batch)

23:41 - Taking a deeper look into the positives and negatives of 3D printing. What are the technical advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts? 

28:22 - Transitioning from Relativity back to the earliest stages of company formation … “I was very hungry to go back to an earlier stage”

31:50 - The genesis story of Embedded Ventures, how Jordan linked up with Embedded cofounder Jenna Bryant, and her backstory

34:52 - A look at the all-mighty CFIUS (the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States)

36:04 - Jordan frequently uses the term “clean capital.” What does he mean by that? 

44:20 - Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor and first-time fund manager

52:31 - Leading KittyCAD, which aims to brings software automation and manufacturing digitalization to the hardware world 

55:30 - Are the founders of KittyCAD cat people?

59:50 - “If you can explain it to your grandmother, a venture capitalist will understand it”

1:04:04 - Hot takes (or most contrarian views) on the space industry … spoiler alert: “we’re in the worst spot for encouraging national security entrance” 

1:10:05 - Jordan’s advice for students who want to break into the commercial space industry

*ABOUT US*

Today’s episode is Pathfinder #0010, which means we’ve made it into the double digits. So far, so good. We’ll see you soon at Pathfinder #0100.

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand that also publishes newsletters and hosts events around the US. Subscribe to our industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

See you back here next week!

In today’s episode, we welcome on Joel Spark, cofounder and chief satellite architect at Spire. The “space-to-cloud” data and analytics provider flys a proprietary constellation of 100+ nanosatellites to collect and analyze data from Earth. The data spans weather forecasting, maritime domain awareness, aviation, and more. Spire is publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange, and currently has a market cap of ~$150M. 

Today’s episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. 

A sneak peek 

The back half of our conversation focuses on Spire’s “Space Services” play, and the concept of space-as-a-service. Before that, though, we explore Joel’s journey into the industry and how he was “spacepilled,” and unpack the mind-blowing fact that Spire began as a KickStarter crowdfunding campaign. 

Here’s what else you can expect in Pathfinder #0037: 

• The 80/20 principle of building complex hardware systems
• The primacy of vertical integration and agile development
• Spire’s Scottish roots and nanosat factory in Glasgow, Scotland
• AIS, ADS-B, and identifying planes and ships at scale
• Why pulling analytics and insights from that data is often more important than the data itself: “Where is the ship going?” “Is the plane flying off course?”)
• Applying the tech platform analogy to Spire Space Services
• Our Max Q questions: What happens if a customer goes belly up? How big is the market, really, for hosted payloads?

…there’s a whole lot more where that came from! After tuning in Pathfinder #0037, we’re confident you’ll come away with a comprehensive understanding of technical tailwinds, operational ethos, and management philosophy that drive Spire. 

• Chapters •

00:01—Intro

01:32—Sponsor

02:09—Guest Intro

03:43—How Joel was spacepilled…

05:07—Spire's origins as a Kickstarter campaign 

09:19—Reliability, uptime, and the 80/20 principle of being 

12:04—How many satellites does Spire currently operate in space today?

16:56—Agile development, vertical integration, operational tempo, and company culture

18:55—AIS and ADS-B definitions 

21:25—Can global identification of planes and ships only be done at scale from space? 

23:33—Ukraine airspace closing + visuals of airspace data

24:11—Are services like that Elon Jet tracker using Spire data? 

26:56—Kepler Ad Break

27:45—Spire as a “space to cloud” analytics provider

30:25—How does Earth intelligence fit into all of this?

33:01—The business model of “space as a service”

37:10—Conceptualizing Spire as a tech platform

40:32—What are your customers doing in space?

43:48—Customers looking to launch constellations

46:11—What happens if a Space Services customer goes belly up? 

47:10—Do you and the team pay attention to your stock prices every day or phase it out?

49:37—What’s the TAM of people, theoretically, of people trying to fly payloads on satellites? 

52:42—Anything else before lightning round?

54:07—Rapid fire questions + close of show 

• Show notes •

Spire — https://spire.com/

Spire Twitter — https://twitter.com/spireglobal

Recent earnings — https://payloadspace.com/spire-q4-2022/

Space Services — https://payloadspace.com/spire-q4-2022/

ADS-B data in leadup to Russia's invasion of Ukraine — https://payloadspace.com/six-months-ukraine-war/

Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6

Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

Ever wanted to hear the firsthand experience of a New Shepard astronaut? Well, today we're joined by Mason Angel, General Partner at Industrious Ventures, who was on Blue Origin’s most recent flight to space. Mason, with a background deeply rooted in industrial sectors like GE and Linde through his family, shares his unique journey and insights into investing in legacy industries, focusing on aerospace and defense.

Industrious Ventures, founded over four years ago, aims to revitalize these often-overlooked sectors by leveraging innovative technologies and substantial expertise. Our conversation delves into Mason's strategic vision and track record. We also explore:

• The impact of a spaceflight experience and a renewed perspective on space tourism and the commercial space industry
• Key investment areas within legacy industries
• Future missions and the commercial potential of space

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:38 - Mason and Industrious Ventures

01:37 - Family expertise

02:33 - What is a legacy industry?

04:11 - Being a crew member of Blue Origin's Shepard

06:35 - Experience vs expectation of going into space

07:45 - What's the moment where you are not allowed to get off anymore?

09:04 - Training

11:28 - Weightlessness

13:37 - How does Industrious differ from other firms?

15:43 - State of space investment

18:45 - Why is there room for multiple launch companies?

19:54 - Investing in Stoke & Ursa Major

21:53 - Starship's economic impact

23:14 - Why is interest in the Moon increasing and is Mason thinking about investing in those companies?

24:57 - AstroForge

26:15 - Resources beyond He3

27:16 - Space stations today

31:40 - How has going to space affected Mason's perspective on the business of space?

33:00 - Investing beyond space

35:30 - Areas of the market that are underhyped

36:43 - Technologies that don't exist today that will in 10 years

38:24 - Prediction: Starship's first commercial launch

40:35 - What are LPs looking for from GPs today?

42:37 - If Mason wasn't doing space, what else would he be doing

• Show notes •

Industrious Ventures website — https://www.industrious.vc/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Did you ever think that solar power generation in space could be 10x cheaper, 20% more efficient, and extend operational life to over 50 years? Well, that’s what the Arizona-based startup Solestial believes it can achieve with its silicon cell technology. We bring in CEO and cofounder Stan Herasimenka for his first-ever podcast to discuss the unique challenges and differences between terrestrial and space solar cells, and the technological advancements his company is making to produce radiation-hardened, thin, and flexible solar cells for space use.

Stan and Mo also cover:

• Market potential for solar technology
• Reengineering long-established technology
• Solestial’s business model and scaling plans
• Future trends in space solar

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:36 - What are you building?

00:59 - What prompted Stan to start Solestial?

01:57 - Terrestrial vs extraterrestrial solar cells

05:10 - How long would a terrestrial solar cell last in space?

08:27 - Who are the main players?

11:02 - What is III-V?

12:25 - Supply/demand gap

16:03 - Core product offering

18:26 - What is the reason not to have a turnkey solution?

19:53 - Cost of activeness vs COTS

23:40 - Target cost of cells

24:30 - Why would a customer pay more for a premium solar cell?

27:37 - Self-curing radiation damage

30:52 - Perovskite cells

33:20 - Manufacturing and scaling

36:18 - Where is Solestial based?

37:01 - Customer traction

38:39 - Team makeup

40:18 - Financing plans?

41:51 - When will Solestial have their first array in space?

43:13 - What does Stan do when he's not talking about solar cells?

44:09 - Other companies Stan is excited about

• Show notes •

Solestial’s website — https://solestial.com/

Stan’s socials — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stan-herasimenka-5932561b/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Giuseppe is president at Red Cat Holdings ($RCAT) and founder of Skypersonic, which builds drones that can inspect and survey sites in high-risk, confined, or GPS-denied locations. Skypersonic's product enables remote operators to fly drones indoors 100% remotely and over the internet.

Previously, Giuseppe was responsible for the development of projects on behalf of the European Space Agency at Thales Alenia Space, and has been involved in development of space systems used at NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA). He studied Astronautical Engineering at the University “La Sapienza di Roma” and he achieved the Master of Science in Mechanical Engineering (MSME) at Engineering Faculty of Catania.

What's the space angle? Skypersonic just recently completed a 15-day set of testing its drone at Mt. Etna, an Italian volcano with Martian-esque terrain. Pilots in Houston flew Skypersonic's drones to demonstrate the feasibility of the technology in a Mars-like environment. In 2021, NASA awarded Skypersonic a five-year contract to provide drone and rover software, hardware, and services/support for the US space agency's simulated Mars mission.

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Introduction
4:27 - Giuseppe got into space at a very young age. Also, Ryan asks the question we’ve all been dying to know… Star Trek or Star Wars?
6:34 - The Italian space sector and working at Thales Alenia
11:24 - Starting simple…how’d Giuseppe come up with the name “Skypersonic”?
13:13 - The startup’s backstory and the art of the pivot
14:08 - 99% of all drones use GPS to fly – Skypersonic is building for the 1% share, and high-risk, highly complex situations and GPS-denied environments.
18:15 - “the pilot is important”
18:46 - A walkthrough of how drones connect to remote operation centers across the world. “Hopefully I can explain in a simple way, even if it’s super complex.”
26:32 - Spillovers from technology developed for space, now being used every day down here on Earth
30:57 - Skypersonic’s testing of its drones and remote operations at Mount Etna (an Italian volcano with a Martian-esque environment)
39:00 - Potential hiccups with using electrical propulsion systems on Mars. Also, spoiler alert, you can’t pilot helicopters on Mars from Earth
41:31 - Getting acquired by Red Cat Holdings, and what it’s like being on the management team of a publicly traded deeptech company
46:56 - Does Giuseppe have any advice for the space SPACs that are trying to tough it out in the public markets right now?
49:51 - Just a normal light question on this Tuesday morning: “Are we alone in the universe?” Giuseppe has worked on space telescopes searching for extraterrestrial planets, so we feel he’s qualified to answer this question.
52:04 - A once-in-a-generation renaissance and technological revival for space
53:40 - Giuseppe’s favorite off-the-radar Italian city

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Welcome to the fourth episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.

Katherine is a prolific writer and deep thinker on aerospace and defense, the US national interest, dual-use technology, and the relationship between Silicon Valley and Washington. As you can see below, we had a wide-ranging conversation on Pathfinder 0004.

Prior to a16z, Katherine was a partner at General Catalyst, and before that, cut her VC teeth at Founders Fund. She was also a general assignment reporter for the Washington Post before moving out to Silicon Valley and started her investing career.

Disclaimer, via a16z: "The content here is for informational purposes only and should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund."

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space cybersecurity white paper at www.spacecyber.com

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - intro

2:35 - From pre-Bezos WaPo to B-school to venture investing

3:42 - Culture shock of Silicon Valley and trying to “figure out the story I saw in front of me”

5:40 - Joining a16z and defining the American Dynamism thesis 

8:00 - No more tyranny of geography (Katherine is in Miami!)

10:15 - VC + Silicon Valley exports to the world

13:10 - “It is our goal that every firm has an American Dynamism practice”

15:00 - The false dichotomy of atoms & bits  (not mutually exclusive) … and @ 15:15, Palmer Luckey (founder of Oculus & Anduril) as case study  

15:45 - a16z Cofounder Marc Andreessen’s canonical pieces - “Software is eating the world” in 2011 and “it’s time to build” in 2020 - converging 

18:00 - Building in digital vs. physical worlds 

20:05 - Space is no longer a niche specialized area of investment

21:45 - VCs enabling commercial space sector and government/DoD serving as key initial first customers to help startups get through the “valley of death” 

22:40 - Governments as customers vs. competitors 

23:10 - You can sell to government and move into enterprise, but you can also build a large enough business just selling to “US government and her allies” 

24:43 - Dual-use technology, Silicon Valley working with the Pentagon, and Russia-Ukraine war as a catalyst for more cooperation? 

27:30 - Defense as bipartisan issue then…to national security as ESG 

30:00 - How can A&D startups compete with Big Tech for talent? 

34:20 - Hardware-software hybrids, standing up new A&D company models, and sharing the playbook by “building in public” … talent not only going to Big Tech or academia, but into companies like SpaceX, Anduril, and Hadrian, and then starting companies of their own

35:30 - The role of storytelling in startup success … and @ 36:35, having “an extraordinary storyteller at the helm” … @37:30, motivating teams through common missions and authentic storytelling 

38:00 - Hadrian investment. Tackling issues in the US defense industrial base, supply chains, and fragmented machining/parts manufacturing industry … and 40:45, where Hadrian makes the biggest impact first 

41:00 - Legacy industries serving USG often lack quality software or customer support … consumerization of B2G products 

42:30 - CS PhDs working with machinists and people who resonate with the mission

43:45 - Key under-discussed questions: Who is the team? How did you meet the team? And how are you going to recruit the team? 

48:20 - Criticism of space exploration has been a constant since the inception of the US’s space program … but @ 49:00, space is cool again! We’ve moved to a world where people see space as cool again. 

50:08 - Katherine’s predictions on the future of space exploration … “I don’t think people realize how fast it’s going to be here.”

51:30 - Family conversations on leaving Earth?!

52:45 - Does a16z have a full-time chief meme officer yet?

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Our guest is Barry Matsumori, a space industry veteran who’s held exec roles at SpaceX, Virgin Orbit, and most recently, was CEO of BridgeComm. Barry’s now the COO of Impulse Space, which was started by SpaceX founding team member Tom Mueller.

Impulse is just a year old and it has only ~40 employees, making it all the more surprising when Impulse and Relativity said they’d partner to launch the first commercial Mars mission in the next available window (late 2024). We grill Barry on the specifics of the mission, and though it feels highly ambitious, it’s safe to say that you don’t want to bet against these teams.

Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com

*CHAPTERS*

0:00 - Introduction
2:43 -Explaining what it was like to work for Qualcomm, a semiconductor company specializing in silicon chips used in mobile phones
5:20 - Barry’s unorthodox approach to higher education, starting with an undergraduate business degree and then pursuing a postgrad degree in engineering
9:05 - Defining new space
11:20 - The bread and butter of Impulse Space… finding ways to build infrastructure that allows space to become an enterprise
13:37 - Impulse Space aims to be a “last-mile” space transportation player. What does that mean and what does it look like?
17:56 - Discussion of Imulse’s development cycles and vertical integration
19:35 - Where does the startup recruit from? What does its headcount look like?
20:35 - Relativity and Space are working together to do what?!
25:10 - What still needs to happen or fall into place to make the Mars window in 2024?
31:16 - Orbital infrastructure is a prerequisite for more space commercialization (materials processing, pharma development, semiconductor manufacturing, etc.)
36:20 - How using LEO as a parking could usher in a more sustainable phase of space exploration (and return trips to Earth)
40:28 - Pulling in fresh talent from other industries versus recruiting from space competitors
44:07 - Pools of talent density around the US… From LA to Boston, and far beyond
47:26 - If all goes to plan, what will Impulse look like in 2024? What other missions will it be working on?
48:41 - Close of show … Star Wars or Star Trek? Are we alone? Will Barry go to space?

*SHOW NOTES*

Video referenced in episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuL7iYUNg6o&feature=emb_title

Impulse's website: https://www.impulsespace.com/

Barry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-matsumori-35676/

Mars mission details: https://www.impulsespace.com/mars

Q+A with partner Relativity: https://payloadspace.com/qa-with-tim-ellis-on-relativitys-mars-mission/

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

This week’s Pathfinder features Lori Garver, a pioneering force in the space industry known for her instrumental role in propelling NASA into the modern era of commercial spaceflight. The former Deputy Administrator of NASA joins us today to discuss how partnerships with private space firms helped to shift the landscape from government-dominated missions to a thriving commercial space sector. 

In addition, Lori and Mo discuss:

• NASA’s budget and priorities
• Timing of Artemis and Mars
• NASA as a Cold War instrument
• Much needed policy changes

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Introduction

01:00 - Commercial partnerships during Lori's tenure

05:55 - Why did you write your book?

08:29 - The COTs program

10:42 - Support for the Constellation program

12:44 - Is the SLS part of the future of Artemis?

15:40 - Feasibility of NASA's Artemis plan

19:00 - NASA’s CLPS program

22:40 - View on SpaceX's launch dominance

25:52 - Future of human spaceflight

27:05 - Does NASA risk losing relevance?

29:25 - How does great power competition affect NASA?

32:48 - Policies Lori is championing

34:14 - What prompted Lori to work in the industry?

38:40 - What Lori is working on today

45:33 - Viability of asteroid mining

49:18 - Lori's bets on next Moon/Mars landing

50:52 - What does Lori do for fun?

• Show notes •

Lori's book — https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Gravity-Quest-Transform-Launch/dp/1635767709

Lori’s socials — https://twitter.com/lori_garver

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday

4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 

5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Joe Laurienti is the CEO and cofounder of Ursa Major, a company that builds and sells propulsion products for A) launch, B) hypersonics, and C) in-space transportation. 

Joe cut his teeth at SpaceX and Blue Origin before setting out on his own and starting Ursa Major in 2015. The Colorado company raised $85M in December 2021 and started ramping engine production last year. It has two bigger, badder beasts in the works: Ripley, Hadley’s bigger sister, is 10X more powerful. Arroway, which is further out, is a 200,000-pound thrust, liquid oxygen and methane staged combustion engine. 

On today’s show, Joe and Ryan talk about the startup’s primary products; its origin story; and how big of a market Ursa Major believes it’s going after.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. 

• Sneak peek •

Joe joins Pathfinder with a surprise, and a space scoop: Ursa Major has struck a deal to supply Vector Launch with “several” propulsion systems, he tells Pathfinder. Ursa’s Hadley engines will power the main stage of the Vector-R launch vehicle in future demonstration missions. Vector is a seven-year-old startup that's raised more than $180M to date but had to declare bankruptcy in 2020. The thought-to-be-dead rocket developer is in fact not dead, and last October, tweeted a photo of its Vector-R, with strong “rumors of my demise were greatly exaggerated” vibes. 

• Chapters •

• 00:00:00 Intro and Ad
• 00:02:02 Guest Intro
• 00:03:30 What were you working on at SpaceX and Blue Origin?
• 00:04:53 USC Rocket Propulsion Lab
• 00:06:13 Origin story into entrepreneurship
• 00:09:41 Story of the name Ursa Major
• 00:11:36 Space SEO + skincare products
• 00:12:12 How have your numbers changed in a year in terms of production?
• 00:14:03 Hadley, Ripley, and Arroway
• 00:15:00 Your engines, how they fit together, and their capabilities
• 00:19:25 First methane fuled rocket?
• 00:20:40 Technology stacks/methods driving your production
• 00:23:51 Reason for existence
• 00:30:05 Vector and Vector-R annoucnement
• 00:32:15 Your contribution to the partnership
• 00:33:52 How did the partnership start and where do you see it going?
• 00:35:34 Commercial partnership with Phantom
• 00:37:16 Other partners
• 00:38:37 Recruitment from the big 2 and other recruiting targets
• 00:42:24 Raising funds vs revenue generation
• 00:44:22 Max Q: What reasons are there to be bullish on small launch?
• 00:45:49 How many launch companies can have viable business models?
• 00:47:25 how do you view the Aerojet Rocketdyne acquisition and what does it mean for Ursa? Is $4.7B a ceiling for a company building engines? How do you see Ursa becoming more valuable?
• 00:49:18 Rapid fire q

• Show notes •

Landing page — https://www.ursamajor.com/
Jobs — https://www.ursamajor.com/careers
Culture — https://www.ursamajor.com/culture
Arroway — https://payloadspace.com/ursa-major-unveils-arroway/
April 2022 interview — https://payloadspace.com/ursa-major-scales/
Twitter — https://twitter.com/ursamajortech
LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/company/ursamajortech/
Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6
Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• More info •

This info is provided by Ursa Major. Find out more at ursamajor.com/engines. 

"Our engines are optimized to offer high performance, diverse capability, and unwavering reliability — all at a competitive price." The engines feature: 

• Staged Combustion: High-performing engine cycle in a compact design, innovating technology to its limit
• Reusability: Single engines capable of multi-mission use and extended duration applications
• Thrust Vector Control: Precise gimbal maneuvering and control
• Active throttle range: Allows for Max-Q throttling, g-limit throttling and mission-specific thrust profiles
• Single-mission restarts: Allows for efficient orbit-changing burns, de-orbit burns, and Stage 1 recovery
• Custom burn duration: Allows for flexibility in mission planning and total impulse

Hadley, Ursa Major's engine that's currently in production, has 5,000 lbf of thrust @ sea level, runs on lox and kerosene, and is designed for low Earth orbit, geostationary orbit, in-space propulsion, and hypersonics systems. 

Ripley, which is in development, has 50,000 lbf of thrust @ sea level, also runs on lox and kerosene, and is designed for LEO and GEO. Arroway, which is earlier in the R&D phase, has 200,000 lbf of thrust; runs on lox and methane; and is designed for medium and heavy boost launch vehicles.

Back in the Pathfinder hot seat is Caleb Henry, Director of Research at Quilty Space. We were privileged to have Caleb join us over a year ago on one of the initial Pathfinder episodes, where he shed light on industry consolidation and the T-Mobile partnership with SpaceX. 

Today, he rejoins us to delve into a variety of pertinent topics, including: 

• SpaceX vs everyone else
• Remote sensing business models
• LEO vs GEO broadband operators
• Capacity shortages across operators
• Effective telecom regulation 

And much more…

This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad 

01:56 - Caleb’s origin story 

04:00 - Transitioning from journalist to research writer 

10:08 - How does Quilty choose what to focus on 

13:44 - Is SpaceX a monopoly? 

18:24 - Supply/demand dynamics of launch 

20:39 - Market for small and medium lift launch vehicles 

24:42 - SpiderOak Ad break 

25:29 - The commercial remote sensing market 

30:53 - A commercial remote sensing market big enough for multibillion businesses? 

33:57 - Will Starlink make GEO operators obsolete? 

40:03 - A shortage of capacity? 

42:56 - Would you rather be a LEO or GEO operator? 

45:42 - Where should there should be more regulation? 

49:56 - What would you be doing if you weren’t in the space industry?

• Show notes • 

Caleb's socials — https://twitter.com/ChenrySpace

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Welcome to the third episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.

Joining us this week is Lauren Lyons, a space industry consultant, startup advisor, and STEM evangelist. Lauren is working on a new venture, but most recently, was COO of Firefly Aerospace.

Before that, Lauren held senior engineering roles at Blue Origin and SpaceX. While at Blue, Lauren worked on the company’s lunar lander and Orbital Reef programs.

At SpaceX, Lauren worked on the development/certification of Crew Dragon; the launch of Starlink; chief engineering and mission assurance for Falcon 9 and Dragon; and Falcon 9 mission management. Rather casually, she also hosted launch livestreams for a variety of missions, including the Emmy-winning Demo 1. She makes a cameo on Return to Space, the Netflix documentary that aired in April. Lauren estimates these streams were just 5% of her time/duties…so needless to say, she kept busy.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space cybersecurity white paper at www.spacecyber.com

*SNEAK PEEK*

In Pathfinder #0003, Lauren and Ryan discuss:

• Her winding career path through time and space
• How working as a medical device R&D engineer helped prepare Lauren for SpaceX
• Seeing friends on social media celebrate launching their spacecraft on Transporter missions
• Operational efficiency and seeing SpaceX hit its stride
• Launching Starlink
• HLS, Orbital Reef work @ Blue Origin
• Team Space is "super mission-oriented and mission-driven"
• Competing with Big Tech for talent
• The role of company culture in shipping space products successfully
• Lean startup operations during downturns
• Life after SpaceX, for Lauren and her coworkers
• Reducing the barriers to entry for space entrepreneurs
• The SpaceX mafia and new deeptech startups/verticals
• What the general public gets wrong about the space sector
• Lauren & Ryan's shared love for the Supernatural VR fitness app 
• Moving past "space is hard"

…and more!

*ABOUT US*

Pathfinder is powered by Payload, a modern space media brand. Subscribe to our industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com. Thanks again to SpiderOak Mission Systems for supporting Pathfinder.

Finally, as Ryan mentioned in the conversation before the break, here’s the thread from Payload Director of Operations Jess Lis about investing in deeptech during downturns: https://twitter.com/jessicaxlis/status/1530262449139724290

Today, the Pathfinder podcast brings on its first sibling/cofounder duo. Before founding K2, CEO Karan spent a decade at Boston Consulting Group and helped lead Text IQ, an artificial intelligence company, through to a nine-figure exit. CTO Neel spent 6 years at SpaceX developing avionics systems for the Dragon spacecraft and then went on to become a senior electrical systems engineer at electric aircraft company Kittyhawk. 

Mo, Neel and Karan discuss K2's origin story, optimizing for mass-scale, a post-Starship world, and much more... 

Today’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ 

• Chapters • 

00:00 Intro 

00:30 SpiderOak Ad 

01:15 K2 Space overview 

05:00 The problem K2 is looking to solve 

06:34 A mass constraint vs mass abundant world 

10:56 Other manufacturers optimizing for mass scale? 

12:48 How the cost of JWST skyrocketed because of mass constraints 

18:12 How is K2 going to drop costs? 

22:04 Learnings from SpaceX 

23:44 Sizing the demand-side of large-scale buses 

26:03 SpiderOak Ad 

26:51 Defense, commercial, and scientific use-cases 

30:22 Customer traction 

32:15 The future of large-scale buses in LEO 

34:00 The K2 advisory board & team 

38:45 Predicting the success of the first Starship launch 

46:50 Starship launch costs 

48:30 Where does the K2 name come from? 

49:37 Favorite sci-fi book or movie? 

51:55 Another space startup that really excites you 

53:15 When do you think we'll land on Mars? 

• Show notes • 

K2 Space - https://www.k2space.com/ 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. 

Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Picture a world where you can complete your 6-month engineering project in just 6 weeks by removing typical bottlenecks in your workflows. That’s what cofounder and CEO of Prewitt Ridge Steve Massey believes his company can help both government and commercial stakeholders of the space industry achieve.

Enter Prewitt Ridge: Prewitt Ridge is a software company that helps engineers manage engineering requirements in complex projects. The company's software, Verve, captures and manages engineering requirements inside the tools where they originate and across complex datasets.

Said differently…Prewitt Ridge's software helps engineers to be more organized and efficient, which can lead to faster, cheaper and more reliable product development. 

A sneak peek…

Steve held roles at Slingshot Aerospace and SpaceX before teaming up with fellow cofounder and CTO Zeke Brechtel to start Prewitt Ridge. Today, Mo and Steve discuss:

• Prewitt Ridge’s value-add to the space industry
• NASA’s expertise in systems engineering
• The future of automation in aerospace
• Working on Hyperloop technology
• And much more…

This episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, software for complex engineering, testing, and operational procedures. Learn more at https://www.epsilon3.io/

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Intro and Epsilon3 Ad

03:03 - What is Prewitt Ridge?

04:46 - Keeping all stakeholders coordinated

06:21 - What inspired you to build the company?

10:51 - Common mistakes for space founders

12:45 - Automatic vs manual systems

15:40 - Is systems engineering just an exercise in paperwork?

19:29 - Quantifying losses from not having proper processes

21:47 - NASA's approach to systems engineering

26:44 - What products are you building today?

28:58 - Epsilon Ad break

29:27 - Current customer traction

31:05 - The ideal commercial customer

33:03 - Team size today

33:27 - Prewitt's competitors

36:14 - What is a digital thread?

37:34 - The Techstars Space Accelerator

40:25 - What is Hyperloop and how did you start working on it? 

45:27 - Where do you see automation spreading in the space industry?

52:13 - Where does the name Prewitt come from?

52:57 - What do you do in your free time?

• Show notes • 

Prewitt Ridge's website — https://www.prewittridge.com/

Prewitt Ridge's socials — https://twitter.com/prewittridge

Steve's socials — https://twitter.com/thesteve

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

This week on Pathfinder, we feature Kate Kelly, Director of Space and Emerging Programs at BWXT, an 8,000-person firm that specializes in delivering nuclear reactors and components for the Navy, commercial nuclear industry, and advanced technologies. 

Kate shares her journey into the nuclear and space industry, providing insights into the advancements and challenges faced by BWXT. With a background in chemical engineering, Kate has been with BWXT for over a decade, contributing to significant projects like small modular reactors and space nuclear propulsion systems.

Our conversation with Kate covers the world of space nuclear technology and BWXT's role in it. We also discuss:

• Kate's unconventional path into the nuclear industry and BWXT
• The significance of the DARPA Draco Phase 2 Award and its impact on space nuclear propulsion
• The role of nuclear thermal propulsion in future exploration
• Challenges and milestones in developing nuclear technology for space
• Regulatory processes and safety considerations for nuclear systems

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:25 - How Kate ended up at BWXT and pursuing nuclear

03:47 - Quick rundown on BWXT

04:34 - What has made Kate stay at BWXT for her whole career?

06:50 - Director of space and emerging programs

08:02 - For All Mankind and how nuclear propulsion works

11:29 - First spacecraft to use nuclear propulsion

12:51 - Milestones

14:33 - What does nuclear propulsion solve?

16:25 - What kind of work is BWXT doing on the power side when it comes to space?

19:46 - Possible scenarios for nuclear power solutions on Earth

21:38 - Long-term value behind BWXT's tech

23:19 - The size of Kate's division

24:45 - How does regulation work for nuclear technologies in space?

27:40 - State of nuclear today and how long until it becomes commercialized

30:38 - BWXT post successful demonstration prediction

32:03 - Safety and combatting public perception on nuclear

34:54 - How BWXT tests their propulsion systems

37:24 - Competitors

38:57 - How does BWXT compete against faster and more agile startups?

41:34 - Nuclear for space in 10 years

43:16 - What Kate does with her free time
 

• Show notes •

BWXT’s website — https://www.bwxt.com/what-we-do/advanced-technologies/

BWXT’s socials — https://twitter.com/BWXT

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

What do a baseball enthusiast, a craft beer podcast host, and a space journalist have in common? A role at Payload! Today's Pathfinder podcast features a very special guest: Payload’s very own Managing Editor, Jacqueline Feldscher. 

Fresh out of college, Jacqueline aspired to become a sports reporter, but D.C. soon drew her into the worlds of policy, national security, and, fortuitously for us, space. After stints at renowned media organizations such as Politico and Defense One, she felt the irresistible pull of the startup world. Answering that call, she took the leap and joined Payload as a Senior Reporter to only quickly be promoted to Managing Editor. 

A sneak peek… 

Jacqueline joins Mo today to discuss a variety of key policy trends that will shape the space industry over the next few years including: 

• The Upcoming Presidential Election 
• Space Debris Regulation
• Commercial Spaceflight Regulations
• The Artemis Accords
• The Future of Space Command HQ 

Be sure to check out more of Jacqueline’s work by signing up for her weekly newsletter, Polaris.

• Chapters • 

00:00 - Introduction 

00:34 - Who is Jacqueline and what do you do at Payload? 

02:20 - What drove your interest in journalism? 

03:38 - From sports to government & national security 

06:14 - Your background prior to Payload 

08:57 - Why go from established media to a fledgling startup? 

10:24 - Insight into your craft 

12:50 - Role of media in the space industry 

14:22 - What is Polaris? 

16:14 - Trends shaping space policy 

18:36 - Debris removal regulation roadblocks 

22:57 - Artemis Accords, more bark than bite? 

26:00 - What happens if SpaceX lands on Mars? 

28:15 - Commercial spaceflight moratorium 

31:48 - 2024 Presidential Elections 

37:08 - Do you think the battle for Huntsville is over? 

38:22 - Aliens?! 

39:27 - Investigative journalism in the industry 

41:20 - Challenges transitioning from a senior writer to an editor of a publication? 

43:14 - Favorite space topic to cover? 

44:23 - Views on the Kessler Syndrome 

45:35 - What do you enjoy most about Payload? 

46:24 - Who's the bigger baby? 

46:56 - Jacqueline's beer podcast 

48:34 - Advice for aspiring space journalists 

• Show notes • 

Sign up for Polaris! — https://polaris.payloadspace.com/ 

Jacqueline's socials — https://twitter.com/zeno_power 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam 

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace 

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes 

• About us • 

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. 

Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)