Out Of Line (Explorations Early Learning)

Annie Friday and Candis Ogilvie share the story of how they began to push back on the conventional school system by opening an Agile Learning Center to support self-directed learners. In doing so, Annie and Candis have given families a space for stepping out of line. This is the backstory of the collaboration and preparation that led to the creation of a supportive learning environment focused on unschooling. They also share about the opening days of trying to find their footing as a new schoolish setting and the collective deschooling process of unschooling in community. Learn more about Agile Learning Centers: https://agilelearningcenters.org/ and specifically Blue Bridge Agile Learning Center: https://bluebridgeschool.com/

Unschooling, self-directed learning, deschooling, and more! Annie and Candis try to define some of the lingo that is used in the conversations around unschooling and self-directed education. By having a foundation of the vernacular, they hope you can more confidently speak to and inquire about the ideas and concepts that bring self-directed learning into practice. In the episode they reference experts from the Alliance of Self-Directed Education: https://www.self-directed.org/ and other experts on unschooling including Akilah Richards who can be found at https://raisingfreepeople.com/ ; Bayo Akomolafe found at https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/ ; and Zakiyya Ismail found at https://www.growingminds.co.za/ 

Candis and Annie discuss the motivations to walk away from the school system and begin to work toward something new. This work begins with deschooling, the ongoing deprogramming process to shed the expectations and beliefs internalized through being part of the school system. As we set out on this experience of letting go of our schoolish ways, we share the raw and vulnerable steps we'll encounter along the way. We mention many of the wise guides who have already helped us along the way. Here are some of them along with their Instagram accounts: Dr. Rema @drrema; Akilah Richards @fareofthefreechild; Iris Chen @untigering; Maleka Diggs @eclecticlearningnetwork; Fran Liberatore @bigmothering; Agile Learning Center @alc_network.

Annie and Candis take a closer look through the lens of Akilah Richards' definition of deschooling: "shedding the programming and habits that resulted from other people's agency over our time, body, thoughts, and actions." They discuss what it really means to stop behaving in the ways society wants you to behave in when you throw away the framework of school. Find more from Akilah through her podcast, Fare of the Free Child, and her book titled Raising Free People. 

Annie and Candis dive into the balance of actively deschooling while creating a consent-based, student-centered, self-directed learning space. Practices like seeking collaborative solutions, sharing mutual respect, and focusing on relationships are a few of the ways education spaces can find more "yes spaces" for young people. Referenced in this episode are "yes space" thought leaders Jeff Johnson, Lisa Murphy @ooeygooeylady, and Kristen Peterson @kristen.rb.peterson.

Candis and Annie explore what happens when we turn every interest our children have into a heavy set of expectations, a trap that many educators and parents fall into. The jumping off point for this chat is Psychology Today article titled Relieving Our Children of Their Potential.

Annie and Candis giggle as they talk out what professional clothes look like for the hands-on, play-based educator. Do you really want to break the bank on leather pants when they could limit the activities you're able to engage in? Is it cute leather pants or standardized tests keeping finger painting out of the kindergarten classroom? Spoiler alert: wear what works for you! Heather Bernt-Santy of That Early Childhood Nerd is referenced in this episode as a resource on finding less restrictive dress codes for educators. 

In this episode, Candis and Annie are joined by Karla the Unschooling Mama. Karla shares her secrets that have come from over 10 years of unschooling with her family. As a parent to 6 unschooling teenagers, Karla talks about what has worked and what has flopped for them. Karla will let us in on her strategy of finding the right pace for her own family. Hint: there is no right or wrong. Nobody else can tell you what will work for you and your family. Listen along to hear Karla's tips on low or no-cost options to find the passions of your young person. Find more directly from Karla on social media through her handle @KarlaTheUnschoolingMama

Annie and Candis dig into some common practices in discipline of young people in schools these days. Education professionals often turn developmental issues into moral ones. Young people face double jeopardy of being punished at school and home for the same infraction. Public shaming tools like behavior charts, naughty tables, and timeouts have become normalized. This is skewing expectations and challenging children's ability to "suceed." Listen to Annie and Candis explore the idea of turning relationship-based learning into the norm.

Maria Montessori created a system of schooling that centered the child and pushed back against oppressive, reward-based systems that focused on testing and grading. It was meant to be accessed by the general public and yet somehow it seems to have landed in the laps of society's more privileged set. Ashley Jefferson joins Annie and Candis as they reflect on self-directed, play-based learning as well as the effects of the drill-and-kill approach of many elementary schools today. This episode starts with Montessori, takes a few loops around youth liberation, and then ends back at the topic of how we support families in our community today. One recurring theme: How can we extend the high quality early learning that is steeped in enriching play and exploration up into the later years of schooling too?

Annie and Candis discuss how children get labeled the "bad kid" sometimes even before they ever start school. Inappropriate expectations, testing, and the pushdown of academics have all contributed to public shaming and calling out those kids who may not be the perfectly still, quiet, attentive students. We challenge all educators in conventional school, progressive school, and self-directed learning environments to really pay attention and ditch the labels by asking yourself: could a stranger listening in identify your challenging one? Center the child, follow their interests, create the yes space for them to flourish.

Guest Ashley Jefferson joins Annie Friday and Candis Ogilvie once again. This time they're talking about the work it takes to root into relationships and provide high quality support for self-directed learners. This episode covers the obstacles that educators are up against when walking away from the conventional ed system. The challenges range from the personal work of shifting away from power and control; wearing multiple hats to support the business; and even supporting our own kids alongside other people's children.

One of the most daunting pieces of unschooling for many is figuring out how your kids will learn. Karla the Unschooling Mama joins Annie and Candis once again. This time they are exploring how to engage in activities along the path to self-directed learning in order to find the interests of your children. Karla tells the story about how a birthday outing to an Air Zoo to look at planes turned into a field of study and now career for one of her oldest. 10 years into unschooling with now 6 teenagers, Karla is full of ideas to spark learning and build community along the way.

Annie and Candis are joined once again by Ashley Jefferson. This is the first part of a multi-episode series on Weapon and Power Play. Ashley shares more about the values of her Pan-African Program in Georgia and her way of supporting healthy gun play. Keys include establishing consent, finding a yes space, supporting difficult conversations, and recognizing that children are fully capable of understanding the difference between play and reality. In light of recent events of gun violence in our country, we wanted to highlight the importance of young people discovering power dynamics safely through play. 

Annie and Candis continue the conversation on power and weapon play. This time they are joined by Samuel Broaden of Honoring Childhood who shares his views on the importance of consent and collaboration when engaging in weapon-based play. Samuel also highlights some of the benefits that come along with this type of power play. 

Annie and Candis are back after a summer of rest and reflection. They share with you some of their inward explorations; talk briefly about the move of their business that helps support unschoolers; and dive into some of the feelings associated with not sending kids back to school for the first time. 

Annie and Candis share their background story of how they met and connected over the realization that the system wasn't working. They delve into the risk involved with leaving a crumbling system behind. They share the fears and insights that came along with leaning into the world of unschooling. They discuss some of the work that has gotten them to this point, walking through deschooling steps they've taken to allow them to dive in head first. 

In this episode Annie and Candis talk Childism and Adultism in parenting, society, and SDE environments with special guest Iris Chen of Untigering. What is adultism? How does it present in society? And how can we support our children through adultist situations?

Carol Kohl joins Annie and Candis this week to talk about how stepping away from schoolish, productivity-based mindsets, we can learn how to balance out our natural need for rest. As adults going through a deschooling process, we can have a hard time remembering to allow for those slower moments, days, periods of our lives. Together they explore how to make more space for noticing when rest is needed. 

There is a pervasive myth that homeschoolers don't socialize outside of their home. Annie and Candis are once again joined by Carol Kohl to bust that myth. Together they talk about the authentic socialization opportunities that can be such a beautiful - and essential - part of the unschooling experience. 

The system of schooling in the US is failing not just students, but also teachers.Teacher shortages are high, morale is low. According to the Washington Post, K-12 education lost more than 21,000 workers in September. Teachers, parents, school administrators, politicians are all pointing fingers at each other. Could this be a sign that it's time for a bigger shift?

Troy Salazar, founder, director and facilitator of Liberty Self Directed Learning Center in Des Moines, Iowa, shares with us about his experience leaving his 22-year public school career behind. Liberty opened this fall to create a space that centers children, consent, and fun in learning. Troy shares some of the excitement and challenges of opening a center. Troy's experience of growing in his comfort as he begins to deschool mirrors closely to Annie and Candis' own experiences of shedding the programming of school.

Troy Salazar joins again to troubleshoot some sticky areas in his first few months of running a self-directed learning space. Annie, Candis, and Troy talk out the schoolish need to be constantly improving and doing better and how to release that. Bringing awareness to the deschooling process within your community can be a main guiding force as you settle into new routines and rhythms. 

Raquel Knack joins Annie this week to share how after raising two children in conventional schooling, she took a different route for the second time around with her youngest child. Raquel shares how she was a rebel parent in the schools opting out of parent-teacher conferences and PTA meetings. In raising all three of her children, she honored and centered their humanity first. Raquels shares that the subject of math is what nearly broke her and led her into her unschooling experience. 

Sometimes self-directed learning seems like something for the privileged who have nothing but time on their hands to wander through the woods and slowly cook meals together in the family kitchen with freshly foraged ingredients. Raquel Knack returns to talk to Annie about how her family made specific choices to allow them to find an alternative to conventional schools. Self-directed learning will be a unique experience for every family. The one commonality is that it places the power of choice in the hands of the learner rather than some pre-determined set of information uniformly applied to young people based on age.

Ben and Genevieve are two unschooling teenagers who are setting out on a new project dedicated to youth liberation. The two will embark on a journey to explore various styles of unschooling and self-directed education. Ben and Genevieve plan to start at Not Back to School Camp in Oregon this summer and then hit the road to cross the country gather stories along the way on the many lifestyles that families are living without school. They'll then turn their findings into a multi-episode documentary series that explores the themes and stories of Learning and Liberation. Find out more and donate to their crowdsourcing: https://seedandspark.com/fund/learning-and-liberation#story 

Host Annie Friday invites her 92-year-old grandmother-in-law to join the show and share some golden nuggets of parenting. "Adventure Grandma" - as she is known for always promoting play and adventure - tells us about how she centered core values while her children were young to serve as a guide to raising kids. Not worrying about being permissive allowed Grandma to see each child's individuals needs and give them each what they needed when possible. The biggest piece of advice is the simplest - listen to your kids.

Kisa Marx of Kid Crew Adventures joins the show to talk about what's normal and what's not normal about after school overwhelm and what has come to be known as "after-school restraint collapse." For many young people these days, they are simply happy to be reunited with their safe people at the end of a long day although they express that relief in the form of big shows of emotions. It can be frustrating to be the parent receiving those big emotions. Just how normal is this kind of experience? What questions can we ask as parents to support our young people? What actions can we take as educators to reduce the pressure on kids in school? Hear this and so much more from Kisa!

Kisa Marx is back to talk more about moving her program from a playful space to a genuine space. Relying on her intuition, experience, and awareness, Kisa leaned into the deprogramming she had to do within herself and her program to truly center children. In deconstructing and reconstructing, Kisa has now made space for all humans in her program to show each other authenticity and genuine emotions. Find more from Kisa at Kid Crew Adventures.

Candis Ogilvie and Annie Friday are joined this week by Dan and Kai from the Unschooling with Kai podcast. Dan and Kai share about some of their favorite video games to play. They also dive into the various ways they to learn to play - using YouTube, playing along with friends, and finding their intersecting interests. To parents and caregivers who have a hard time understanding what all the screen time is about, this is a great listen. You'll learn about ways to connect with the young people in your life even if you yourself aren't a gamer. 

Karla Marie Williams is back joining Annie Friday and Candis Ogilvie once again to bust some of the myths and traps commonly surrounding unschooling. There are seven common pitfalls that Karla the Unschooling Mama reminds us look out for in our practice with young people. Sometimes the grownups in the unschooling relationship can forget who and what it is all about. Allowing your young person's experiences to unfold without adding your expectations, hopes, and dreams to the mix is key to finding the right way for you to unschool.

Latoya Nelson joins Annie Friday this week to talk about how her classroom management strategies have shifted over the years. By centering the humans in her classroom, Latoya creates authentic relationships that steer the community created in her space. Ditching conventional strategies and leaning into relationships has had impactful results for the young people and their families in Latoya's care.

Annie Friday is joined by Ashley Jefferson to talk about some of the disparities in who is playing outside despite knowing nature is essential to our mental and physical healthy. Ashley shares some of the programs she has developed to encourage Black families to get outside and enjoying the benefits of fresh air and nature. Ashley offers some reminders on heading out: simply by being human, we are nature; feeling safe and having fun are critical elements; and there's no requirement to be a nature expert tin order o enjoy the benefits of it.

Ashley Jefferson and Kisa Marx join Annie to bring their wisdom and experience with racial and cultural equity and inclusion in the natural world. As Black women and educators rooted in play and nature, they share their personal experiences as well as the historical context to understanding more on the topic of justice in the great outdoors. Ashley also discusses her new book out with Little Feminist Book Club depicting real images of authentic play in nature. This is a worthy listen for anyone in the fields of early childhood, nature and forest schools, or self-directed education.

Often times, educators are told to center relationships but not necessarily given the tools or time to figure out what that looks like in practice. Latoya Nelson joins Annie Friday once again to explain how she transitioned from conventional teaching methods using punitive measures to attempt to manage her classroom toward a relationship-based classroom. Now that she has recalibrated toward the most important part of the learning environment - the young people - Latoya finds teaching more fulfilling and maybe even easier than ever before.

Candis Ogilvie and Annie Friday take a brief look back on their third year of stepping out of line with conventional education. Together they continue to look at their de-schooling experience as they moved through new aspects of it 3 years out. Centering relationships and honoring young people as fully human has shifted more than just their relationship to school and learning. Listen along as they share more about how it has affected their worlds.

Annie Friday and Candis Ogilvie share a bit on their shared purpose, obstacles to it, and what first brought them together in their journey into the world of Self-Directed Education or SDE. They also spend some time reflecting on what they have been learning from their podcast guests so far this season. Highlights include the special time shared with Adventure Grandma and learning from incredible young people like Ben and Genevieve who are currently kicking off their cross-country unschooling road trip.

Nikolai Pizarro joins Annie and Candis in this episode to talk more about why her program Raising Readers is reclaiming literacy instruction as something to do in the home. Her literacy course called Home As Epicenter is equipping parents and caregivers on how to help their young people decode language. Nikolai encourages parents and caregivers to learn the science of reading so they may extend the work of the schools into community at home. 

Sarah from Simplifying Play is joining Annie Friday on this episode to talk about why less is more in play - fewer toys, less adult interference, more uninterrupted time.. Sarah shares 4 components of play that have helped the young people she works with and plays with to be able to dive deeper into their own play.

Annie and Candis are joined this week by Rachael, a parent and social worker, who shares personal experience and her perspective of working with youth who identify as LGBTQ+. Together they talk about the numbers, the bright spots, and the dangers of ignoring the needs of young people who don't fit neatly into the binary. Being supportive to a young person in need has been shown to shift the trajectory and can offer young people a sense of belonging. 

Annie and Candis go straight to the source in this episode as they are joined by Bria Bloom, Executive Director of the Alliance for Self-Directed Education. Bria breaks down the term self-directed education, more commonly known as SDE. The conversation covers the nuances of language around this type of alternative education that includes unschooling, independent learning, and sometimes even conventional school life. Together we explore the idea of what life could look like with a completely different attitude toward schooling in this country. Find more information and tons of resources from the Alliance for Self-Directed Education here.

Therapist Rachael Koeson joins Annie Friday once again to talk about ways we can support our youth, expecially those who identify as LGBTQ+. Rachael supports families as they navigate the specific challenges that come up in this realm. One pitfall parents and caregivers can stumble into is limiting how children show up in the world. Sometimes parents think by tamping down aspects of their child's identity or personality, they are protecting them from the outside world. Instead, when we try to turn down the volume on young people's identity, they can end up feeling like there's something wrong with them. It can reduce confidence and resiliency in young people to feel like they have to edit who they are to fit the comfort of those around them. The very existence of queer young people can be dependent on finding supportive adults to see them as who they are as they grow and develop. Support for youth and families can come from many different places including The Trevor Project, ACLU, GLSEN, Stand with Trans, the Family Acceptance Project, and the Integrative Empowerment Group. If you'd like to brush up on your vocabulary, find a glossary of terms at the PFLAG LGBTQ+ Glossary. Using books and literature to wade into these topics can be helpful too. Find a list of book recommendations here. Setting aside adult comfort for youth safety is an extremely important aspect of these conversations. Rachael and Annie cover much of these topics in this episode. 

Joining Annie Friday this week are Sifu Terrell of Lion Martial Arts Academy and Latoya Nelson of the Attuned Learning Community School. Annie, Terrell and Latoya discuss why children deserve to experience a soft life and in particular why it's even more critical that Black children are able to enjoy a soft life. There are lots of different terms for the more supportive approach to parenting that centers relationship - gentle parenting, conscious parenting, partnership parenting, etc. However you call it, gentle parenting is not just for children of privilege. Sharing from their own lived personal experiences, they talk about the possibility of turning our homes into a pocket of love for our children. Together they answer the question: Can we find spaces that allow young people in our world to exist without the pressures of the harsh outside world? 

On this episode of Out of Line, Amanda Diekman joins Annie Friday and Candis Ogilvie to talk about living in a low demand household. Amanda's new book Low Demand Parenting: Dropping Demands, Restoring Calm, and Finding Connection with Your Uniquely Wired Child came out this summer. It was an autism burnout, a term new to their family, that finally set them on a path toward this low-demand lifestyle that worked for them. With new diagnosis of neurodivergency in multiple family members, Amanda and family could reflect on each member's individual needs for flourishing. Redefining their family dynamics has given them new freedom, peace, and belonging. If you feel like you can't see yourself or your family in the conventional parenting books, Amanda's story may resonate. This is a good listen for anyone with pathological demand avoidance, autism, ADHD, or anyone feeling stuck in a cycle of push-pull parenting dependent on power dynamics and adultism.

Annie Friday is joined by Renee, an unschooling mom whose child is starting his second year back in conventional school. Renee talks about the busy rush, new milestones, and complicated feelings that come up with this return to school. We laugh about the silly school objectives and supposed child-set goals that don't exactly feel like they were set by a young person. Renee also wonders aloud about what it takes for her child's class to lose their Fun Fridays and other rewards-based systems used to manipulate children's behavior in school settings. This is part one in a three-part series on the back-to-school season from various angles of self-directed education. 

Carol Kohl joins Annie this week to talk about the madness of back-to-school season from the perspective of an unschooling homeschool parent. As a former educator, Carol has a unique perspective on how this season affects those who aren't in conventional school systems. Schoolishness and the systems of schooling are so embedded within our society that this time of year there is a pervasive aspect that creeps into even the lives of unschoolers and those engaged in self-directed education. This is part 2 in a 3-part series on this time of year from the perspective of those out of line with the mainstream systems.

Latoya Nelson returns to talk to Annie about her perspective as an educator freshly leaving the conventional school system behind. Latoya shares more about what the back-to-school season looks like in her homeschool community learning space. Focused on relationships and needs first has reshaped the whole game of school and education for Latoya. Latoya's learning community, The Attuned Community, is reshaping childhood for all in attendance. It's a unique program centering unschooling and self-directed education in a community way. For Latoya, tending to the emotional needs of the community takes precedent over any kind of learning goal or objective.

Annie and Candis examine the topic of after-school restraint collapse. They wonder out loud together why we are normalizing this restraint as an essential component of back-to-school season and beyond. Do schools ask too much of young people? Are kids required to hold themselves together in inappropriate ways? What we are asking and expecting of young children is wildly out of line with all the science of human development and neuroscience. How can we all be better advocates for our kids in our homes and classrooms? 

Annie Friday is joined by Michelle Zagardo of Food Bodies Families and host of The Body Competence podcast. Michelle is on a mission to raise what she calls "body competent humans." In this episode, Michelle and Annie discuss the concept of food neutrality with young people. Often food gets moralized into binaries like good and bad or healthy and unhealthy. This conversation challenges adults to remain neutral in the presentation of new foods. Allowing young people to explore foods and how it relates to their own body can help them know what foods feel good to them. Through healthy, supportive relationships with caregivers, kids can learn to set their own boundaries with food and nutrition. Along the way, however, it can be activating to the caregivers who have their own views on and experiences with food and eating. Michelle shares about how to navigate this type of exploration, honoring autonomy and independence while also instilling values and family culture to our children through food. 

Ashley Jefferson of Nguzo Babies joins Annie Friday on today's episode talking all about Kwanzaa. Ashley briefly explains what Kwanzaa is and why you may want to learn more about it. Often times, children's books, toys, and shows can provide windows into the lives of others and mirrors where children can see their own image reflected back. Ms. Ashley has created a whole set of resources to serve as windows and mirrors for children on the topic of Kwanzaa.These resources are centered on play and creativity. This episode is a must-listen for parents coming from all different backgrounds who want to raise culturally aware and competent young people. Learn more about Ms. Ashley through her Early Childhood Enthusiast page or find the Nguzo Babies video channel on YouTube.

It seems like more than ever before, kids are making their way to middle and secondary school without basic reading, writing, and math skills. Teachers and schools are pointing fingers at parents and parents are pointing fingers at schools with very little empathy for each other. On this episode of Out of Line, Annie Friday is joined by Latoya Nelson to reflect on the tenuous relationship that has been pitting families and schools against each other. With so many real life constraints in today's hustle culture, can families make home the epicenter of learning as Nikolai Pizarro of Raising Readers suggest? This is one of the many questions that Annie and Latoya strive to answer. Find more about Latoya and her work at The Attuned Community School or on Instagram @Raising__Resilience.

Could the concept of the Other Mother replace the more forced, less authentic systems of teaching social and emotional learning in schools? Latoya Nelson joins Annie Friday this week to discuss the topic of her dissertation. This concept of the Other Mother dates back to the time when enslaved peoples in the US had to become surrogate parents of sort to young children. This community-based approach to care could help children feel nurtured in the educational environments in which they're learning. Social-emotional concepts would be learned through authentic relationships in the communities where kids are spending most of their time. Learn more about Latoya Nelson at the Attuned Community School and find more from Annie Friday at anniefriday.com

This week on Out of Line, Susanne Benton joins Annie Friday to talk about her experience with helping kids and grown-ups fall asleep. Over the last several years, Susanne has used her parenting and teaching wisdom to design a calming nighttime routine that centers on connection and nervous system support. Susanne's Mind Body Bedtime program provides lots of resources, rooted in play and imagination, in order to implement strong connections at a time when most parents are feeling the exhaustion of the day. Susanne's newest program called The Peaceful Parent is meant to further help parents find their calm so that they can better co-regulate with their kids, leaving them with skills to last a lifetime. Find free resources like bedtime stories, games, and meditations on Susanne's website Mind Body Bedtime or directly on the Insight Timer app.

Annie Friday is joined this week by Renee, a mom from Michigan, to talk about how their family has found healthy sleep routines that work for them. Renee has a unique perspective as she talk about her 8-year-old son attending public school while also remaining true to her unschooling commitment. By creating supportive routines that honor the needs of all family members as much as possible, Renee feels like she has been able to continue living a self-directed lifestyle. With another baby on the way soon, Renee and family are preparing for yet another shift in sleep patterns. Listen in as Annie and Renee talk unschooling, parent exhaustion, and boundaries.

This episode of Out of Line features Latoya Nelson of Raising Resilience and the Attuned Community along with Kisa Marx of The Play Lab Foundation and a conversation with Annie Friday on the concept of respect. Often adults will talk about the expectation of respect without necessarily extending the same level of respect toward the young people in their lives. Respect is a word that is hard to define because it means something different to each person. Kisa, Latoya, and Annie share a little about how they define and model respect with the young people they're engaged with. Creating a village and being another mother to the kids in their care and their families is an essential element to this work. Listen in and hear more!

Adele Cleaver joins Annie Friday this week on Out of Line. Adele is a Playworker and the founder of Big Blue Play, a pop-up playspace in England. Adele shares all about her knowledge and passion for the field of playwork. Playworkers protect and provide space for play as well as engage in research, advocacy, and education efforts to help others realize the value in free authentic play. Adele explains how she looks for nuanced cues and relies on reflective practices to ensure she is optimizing her role as a playworker. Adele also shares her journey as a parent trying to live a life that reflects her values and allows for play, boredom, and free time.  You can find more from Adele on Instagram @adeleplayworker or @bigblueplay or buy her book Children Don't Dissolve in the Rain; Find out more about Playwork through The Playwork Foundation or Playwork Wales

Dr. Gina Riley joins Annie Friday this week to discuss Self-Determination Theory and intrinsic motivation. Together, they discuss what types of environments, activities, and parameters can encourage young people to find their intrinsic drive. Intrinsic motivation relies on competence, autonomy, and relatedness. While it is not developed exclusively in homeschool or unschool settings, there are certain factors typically found within those settings that make it easier to access intrinsic motivation than in conventional school settings. Dr. Riley shares with Annie some antecdotes from her own atypical homeschool experience as a single working parent and how this has played out in the long term for her family. Dr. Riley works in the College of Education at Hunter College - CUNY. You may find her books on homeschooling ; her scholarly research work ; and her social media presence all to bring you helpful information and reassuring comfort throughout your family's school years. 

Host Annie Friday is joined this week by Aiyana Goodfellow, self-described writer, liberator, and delinquent. Much of Aiyana's current work centers on inviting others to dig into their own implicit or explicit anti-child ageism. Aiyana has classes called Why You Hate Kids, 101, 102, and a self-paced intensive that can be found at her website aiyanagoodfellow.com as well as a published book titled Innocence and Corruption: An abolitionist understanding of youth oppression. Aiyana encourages adults to use self-reflection and intentionality in order to  create change by shifting out of the model of having power over young people and rather share power with young people. In this conversation, we discuss the discomfort of childhood, child abuse, freedom, power, and systems like schooling that keep children in an oppressed group. It sounds pretty radical but when you hear Aiyana talk on the topic, you will hear just how grounded and sensible the work of dismantling childhood oppression really is. 

Emma Tempest, AKA the Play Coach, joins Annie Friday today to talk about perfectionism, the good, the bad, and the really, really unhelpful aspects of it. Many adults have learned perfectionism through school and the constant measuring that can leave humans of all ages, but particularly children, feeling like they aren't good enough. While perfectionism can protect the ego, too much of it can be limiting and even downright toxic. Emma shares her thoughts on how to deschool, or deprogram, perfectionism when it is no longer serving a purpose. Annie and Emma also discuss strategies and methods to try to guide young people through childhood without leaving them paralyzed by perfectionism. Find more from Emma and check out her work as a positive psychology coach where she can help get you out of black-and-white thinking and into a full spectrum rainbow of thoughts to support your emotional growth.

In this episode, Annie Friday tries to answer some questions that new parent and early childhood educator and caregiver, Brett Sanstrom, has about unschooling. Brett shares that as a play-based professional, she is starting to see how misaligned school norms and practices are with neuroscience and child development. Brett and Annie discuss how many teachers turn to the practice of unschooling with their own family because they have seen firsthand the scars that school can leave. There's also a growing population of educators leaving the field of conventional education to open alternatives to school like group self-directed education communities and homeschool co-ops. Annie shares some of the resources that were most helpful as her own family became homeschoolers in a most unlikely way. 

Jenn and Claire of Blazing Star School join Annie Friday this week to talk about the process of opening an alternative to school with a center for self-directed education (SDE) in community. Blazing Star School is located in Chicago and serves children ages 4 to 12. Sharing a background in various roles in the education field led Jenn and Claire to realize that they were looking for something that would better support their own kids' development and growth while serving as a place for other youth needing an alternative to school. Blazing Star aims to provide authentic child-led, interest-based, natural learning that centers the relationships of those in their community. Jenn and Claire share vivid stories about moments of incredible growth and learning happening at Blazing Star without coercion, punishment, and evaluation. They share some of the resources that have been most helpful as they have developed their community and programming including other programs in Chicago like the Chicago Free School and Tallgrass Sudbury School as well as the guidance received from Liberated Learners and Ken Danford. 

Samuel Broaden of Honoring Childhood joins Annie Friday this week to talk about his new book, Gender Expression and Inclusivity in Early Childhood: A Teacher's Guide to Queering the Classroom. Samuel shares the challenges of releasing a book on this topic with the current political strikes against the LGBTQIA+ community as well as the challenges he has personally faced in the classroom and with families. The hateful reactions that came with the book's release only affirmed the need for a book on this topic. Children and families benefit by seeing all sorts of diverse representation of humanness in their spaces. Samuel's book serves as a workbook to create self-reflection and introspection for all, regardless of personal views. Annie and Samuel discuss the beautiful side of wondering aloud with children that comes with the role of caregiver. Additionally, Samuel shares more about his next exciting project - a book on weapon play that he is co-authoring with Kisa Marx to be released in June!

Annie Friday is joined this week by Maile Munson, Director of Advocacy, Outreach and Public Awareness for Lives in the Balance. Lives in the Balance is a non-profit organization dedicated to creating a shift away from punitive, exclusionary discipline practices on a systemic and personal level. The organization was founded by Dr. Ross Greene, a clinical psychologist who was on the faculty at Harvard Medical school; is a New York Times best-selling author; and a practitioner who has worked with children and families for over 30 years. Through his work, Dr. Greene has developed a program called Collaborative and Proactive Solutions (CPS). Maile provides an overview of the CPS program explaining that it's a model that can be used in home or school settings to help adults be in relationship with young people in order to solve problems before they turn into challenging behaviors. This work is intended to help us get out of crisis mode by creating more supportive partnerships and reducing harmful practices like seclusion or corporal punishment. Lives in the Balance has even recently expanded the conversation to include our youngest children with a new program called "Never Too Early" centered on the most effective practices to support even infants and toddlers in this collaborative and proactive model.  Lives in the Balance hosts a free and accessible virtual summit annually where you can find out even more. Listen in on this episode and learn more about how you can be trained to use the model or become an advocator for young people.

Annie Friday is joined by Playworker Adele Cleaver to talk about the newly declared International Day of Play that will take place on June 11 annually. The United Nations adopted this official day after play advocates and global partners proved the need for it through surveys, research, and data that showed children around the world don't believe adults take play seriously enough. Not only can play ignite and enhance learning experiences, play can help humans process emotions, sort through traumatic events, and make new discoveries about themselves and the world around them. Adele offers tips on how to talk to your learning institutions and other play stakeholders in raising awareness regarding the benefits of play. Adele also shares some of her recent favorite play memories with inspiration from the Orleans House Gallery, the GLUE Collective, Suzanne Axelsson of Interaction Imagination, Penny Wilson of Assemble Play, and of course The Playwork Foundation.The reality is that UNICEF estimates that about 160 million children globally are working rather than playing and learning. By declaring June 11 as International Day of Play, advocates hope that adults and decision-makers will be able to invest in, provide for, protect, respect, and support play. Play is not only essential to childhood, but rather essential to humanity. Find more info on Adele Cleaver at Big Blue Play or on social media as @AdelePlayworker

Karla Marie Williams joins Annie Friday on this episode to share about what graduation has looked like for her 5 graduated unschoolers. Similar to the process of an unschooling version of homeschooling, graduation has been crafted for each individual young person based on their choice, their interest, and their unique pathway. Karla shares how she has chosen to be responsive to her 1 still unschooling and 5 already-graduated unschooled young people. Each of her 6 has had a different indicator that they are ready to move on to the next step and launch themselves beyond their family-partnership based version of unschooling. Karla also covers what the transition from Karla the Unschooling Mama to Simply Karla Marie has meant for her. For those out there curious about what a self-directed path could look like for your family, check our Karla's starter book called Homeschool Gone Wild. Karla also has many other books, journals, and resources with more specific target audiences including moms, teens, travelers, and even control freaks. Find Karla on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook as Simply Karla Marie. To learn more about Karla or book her for a speaking engagement, find everything at her website KarlaMarieWilliams.com. As always, thanks for listening!

It's time to reprogram the way we're talking about screen time in our homes and education settings. Annie Friday is joined this week by Ash Brandin, also known as The Gamer Educator. Ash brings a practical approach to conversations about screens knowing this nuanced topic is more than just about screens are bad or good. This episode touches on the role that screens actually play in our lives. Screen time and digital supports are tools of the culture that aren't going away. It's important to guide our young people into responsible digital citizenship as we examine that same responsibility for ourselves as well. Ash share three guiding principles that drive their work which are: 1) screens fill systemic gaps; 2) screens can benefit the whole family; and 3) screens can be a functional part of our lives. Learn more directly from Ash at thegamereducator.com/

Latoya Nelson is back with Annie Friday after her first year of stepping out of line and opening a learning center for self-directed young people looking for an alternative to school. Latoya shares some of the challenges that come with her personal work of detoxing the school system within her as an educator - the pay, the hours, the workplace norms. We also discuss the authenticity that comes for participants at any age in a self-directed community. We talk about public schools, how they work and don't work for some. We talk about social emotional learning and how it can be weaponized and steeped in whiteness assuming that the cultural norms for white America can be broadly applied to all students. Latoya shares that photos, community observations, and intentional reflection have helped her see how much they really did accomplish this year. Listen in as we celebrate Latoya and The Attuned Community learning community for finishing their first year out of the system and raising resilience! Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Annie Friday is joined this week by Samuel Broaden of Honoring Childhood and Kisa Marx of The Play Lab Foundation to discuss their newly released book titled Rethinking Weapon Play in Early Childhood: How to Encourage Imagination, Kindness, and Consent in Your Classroom. Right away, Kisa and Samuel dive into the reality that many adults feel activated, challenged, or triggered by this type of power play. They offer strategies for reflection and growth for the adults in play spaces while also explaining the benefits of this category of play. In a world filled with violence and a country full gun violence, the fears are valid, and yet as adults it is our moral imperative to face those fears. In that process, we need to decide how we can share our concerns and shift those into boundaries that honor consent and safety. This episode does include references to violence and real life examples of when gun play has turned to tragedy. The Tamir Rice Foundation led by Samaria Rice and Rebuild Foundation led by Theaster Gates are two important organizations preserving the memory of Tamir Rice and uplifting the power and potential of community through ensuring the existence of  safe and culturally-rich spaces specifically for Black children and families. Here 4 The Kids is another organization focused on ending gun violence in the US and hosts weekly community chats every Thursday at 12:00 pm ET. Curious how we can hold space for both the fears around violence and the need for kids to engage in power play? Listen in as Kisa and Samuel share how our feelings toward gun violence are tied to and also separate from the benefits of weapon play.  Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Author, educator, and activist Eloise Rickman joins Annie Friday this week to discuss her new book It's Not Fair!: Why it's time for a grown-up conversation about how adults treat children. Eloise's work and writings center on the rights of childhood and the discrimination and oppression that is created by adultism. While there are many who question whether children are truly oppressed and needing liberation, Eloise believes children arrive capable and ready... even to vote. Eloise challenges the notions of mainstream adult-child relations that are typically found in schools, homes, and modern day parenting. Not all doom and gloom, Eloise also shares her hope and optimism for a future end to childhood oppression. You can find more from Eloise and her newsletter on Substack under Small Places and on Instagram under MightyMother_ Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Annie Friday is joined this week by Kristen Peterson (soon to be Kristen Day), play advocate, educator, trainer, speaker, author, and a true play queen! Kristen shares how discovering play changed her trajectory forever. Play was also the catalyst for her family's decision to re-prioritize how they were spending their time. By living in attunement with her kids' needs and her own passions, Kristen has developed a lifestyle of lifelong learning in her family. This has included homeschooling, unschooling, and conventional schooling. Kristen shares how this type of interest-based learning breaks the school mold and allows for critical thinking and deep engagement. Kristen aims to reach parents, educators, and caregivers with the message that school should not juts be something to survive. By creating access to true, authentic play, kids and adults can shine in their own individual strengths.Keep your eye out for Kristen's content-rich resources, workshops, classes, and new book coming out soon called I'm Not Getting Them Ready for Kindergarten: Breaking tradition in early childhood education  Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Iris Chen joins Annie Friday this week to share more about how choosing to unschool opened her up in surprising and radical ways to begin imagining the world without punitive, oppressive systems. Through her work as a parent educator, coach, and collaborator,  Iris helps others find connection and community as they bring more consciousness into their family life. While Iris' coaching is available to all, she has tailored some of her programming to meet the specific needs of Asian femmes who are working out a unique type of generational healing. These are humans who may have grown up with the stereotypical tiger parenting style first brought to public attention by Amy Chua in her book back in 2011. Iris, along with Yunzhe Zhou, will be presenting a new offering called Untiger Your Self so that others may find strength and connection as they un-tiger their self-knowledge, self-compassion, and self-advocacy in order to re-pattern ways of being in relationship with family.Learn more about Iris Chen and her work as an author, coach, and visionary on Instagram @Untigering or head to her website by the same name where you can find her books and more on her coaching services and workshops. Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Author, mother, healthcare aid, and former SDE facilitator Meaza Love joins Annie Friday to discuss how the American Dream has come to affect US schooling. Meaza talks about the limits to creativity, originality, and divergent thinking as schools push young people to one right answer, one career pathway, one specific end point that maybe doesn't even exist. This conversations touches on the original intent of the term American Dream which was first coined during the Great Depression in 1931 by James Truslow Adams, historian and author. Adams thought believed in a dream that would allow every American to achieve their fullest capabilities "regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position," according to Wikipedia. Meaza shares recent discoveries for her regarding unschooling and the lifestyle of self-directed education (SDE). She sees SDE as a pathway alternative to school that would potentially help preserve her own child's unique and creative ways of being in the world. While the world has been shifting greatly since the model of schooling was put in place, schools themselves have not changed much. Together, Annie and Meaza dream aloud about how the system of schooling could shift to adapt to the lifestyles of today by centering relationship skills, critical thinking, and creative processes. These days, with AI and robots, we no longer need to train students to be good factory line workers. By adapting schools to honor individuality and personhood, could we shift back to that original intent of the American dream? Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Adrienne Miller joins Annie Friday this week to discuss her unschooling family life. Adrienne shares on the logistics of the choices, privileges and sacrifices that shape her family's path. By leading with relationships, opting for a slower lifestyle, and centering community, Adrienne lives out her values with intention. Adrienne explains more on how she sees unschooling as a pathway to collective liberation by reimagining what learning and life can look like for all families. Find homeschooling and unschooling resources and coaching options by Adrienne on her website, Instagram account, and through her new podcast all at TheseReveries.com or @these_reveries. Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Cassidy Younghans runs Wild Roots Learning Community in North Texas and shares with Annie Friday more about her experiences in self-directed education and building learning communities. Through some moments of failure, overwhelm, and leaving the school system, Cassidy realized that building a strong network of supportive community must come first when building a new school. Authentic community takes time creating trust, aligning values, appreciating differences. Cassidy talks about the realities and challenges that inherently come with opening a learning center. Cassidy has offerings for parents, facilitators, and young people on her website CassidyYounghans.com Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Annie Friday is joined this week by Megg Thompson, Behavior Consultant, Coach, Speaker, and Youth Advocate. Megg shares the importance of behavioral support that is centered on caring, playful, and respectful relationships in order to affirm all neurotypes. Megg has seen firsthand Positive Behavioral Interventions and Support (PBIS) fail many young people leaving them to feel like they are a problem. PBIS is a program used by thousands of schools across the US. While employing reward-based intervention strategies can show positive results for some kids, many others are left out of the "fun." Even those who may be considered successful in PBIS, long-term damage of pressure, anxiety, and perfectionism can build over time. Seeing young people repeatedly broken down by school behavior plans, Megg centers her own work on supporting and empowering young people and families through education, information, and hands-on support.  Find more about Megg with 2 Gs at MeggThompson.com where she has more information and resources for young people, their families, and educators in both convention and unconventional learning environments. Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

This episode brings youth rights advocates, Flying Squad facilitators, and unschooling parents Bria Bloom, Alex Khost, and Annie Friday together in conversation about what a self-directed lifestyle can look like in a child's earliest stages of life. Bria was raised in a life without school and is currently unschooling in partnership with a teenager and toddler at home. Alex has been unschooling with four kids for the last 18+ years, currently covering ages spanning from teenagers to toddler. The conversation explores how as adults guiding the lives of young people, we can intentionally include them in our family life, safeguard their rights, and support their curiosities. They discuss the work of the adult which includes bringing awareness to your own inner monologue, anxieties, and pace of life in order to communicate vales and culture to your children. Alex and Bria share personal stories of real life struggles that come up and how they navigate those moments while honoring the personhood and humanity of their child. Find more on Alex Khost and Bria Bloom through the FlyingSquads.org website and the Alliance for Self-Directed Education at self-directed.org Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Annie Friday is back to share more of her family's personal unschooling experience. In this episode, Annie catches listeners up on where she has been the last six months or so. She touches on some of what is to come in this season including burnout, the state of education system, some personal narratives from other unschoolers including youth voices. Annie also explains that while the title of the podcast originally stood for the literal experience of getting out of line by leaving the school system, a major focus of the show has become all the many ways parents, educators, and caregivers have expectations of young people that are really out of line with what we know to be neurologically and developmentally supportive for them. This short episode tees up all that is to come in this next season of Out of Line. Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Neuro-affirming Behavior Consultant and Life Coach Megg Thompson joins Annie Friday this week to share more about her experiences working with young people. Megg brings her humor and candor to this conversation on the feedback she received when sharing about a child who had a meltdown in the classroom. Spoiler alert: the feedback was harsh, exclusive, and not neuro-affirming and the hardest part was that so much of it came from inside the classroom. Megg and Annie share why it is so critical for our schools, classrooms, and learning centers to make space for all learners and all brains. Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram

Annie Friday is joined by Latoya Nelson of Raising Resilience this week in a very candid conversation about what school choice - and really just a wider array of options for education could look like - can mean for families undervalued by the conventional public school system. Latoya shares more specifically on the opportunities that school choice can create for some Black families. This episode was recorded back in October 2024 and is part 1 of a two-part conversation on the radical vision of what education can look like without schools as we know them today.  Thanks for listening! Links Share a comment or ask a questionSupport the show (and save 10%) when you shop early learning trainings at Explorations Early LearningVisit the show archives to browse and search all episodesMore AnnieMore CandisVisit Blue Bridge School's website or Instagram