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23 Jul 2024
Leading with Authenticity - Nick Mehta - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #1
00:58:59
Joining the show on its debut week is a SaaS veteran and leader in the Customer Success industry. A person who believes in developing strong company values and the importance of building a community around your business. This leader is none other than the CEO of Gainsight, Nick Mehta.
Nick joins host David Politis to discuss the importance of company values. Nick reflects on how vital it was to establish values early, as well as the most important executive roles a company should hire. Discover his insights on the importance of building community, qualities that make an effective leader, and the benefits of investing in a good Executive Assistant.
Takeaways:
Building a community can be vital to establishing a strong and reciprocal relationship with customers. Communities and community events allow for direct customer interaction and a space to get honest feedback on the business.
The ability to manage up, down, across, and out are vital for strong management, as it ensures a manager is able to work with and be a positive influence on coworkers, stakeholders, customers, and direct reports.
Executive Assistants are not something to be thrifty or cheap about. An effective EA can make a world of difference for CEOs and should be well-supported to ensure retention. Sometimes they are more on top of things than the CEOs themselves.
Being CEO means you have to be yourself. Candor and authenticity are essential qualities for successful leadership, even if it means making tough decisions or telling employees that something is wrong.
Backchannel references are a great tool for ensuring you have a holistic view of a potential candidate. Asking a reference “what did others think of this person” instead of “what did you think of this person” is a strong strategy for getting an honest answer from them.
Actively reinforcing company values is an important step in getting your staff to truly live up to them in their day to day. Have your values be the focus of employee onboarding, discuss them in all-hands meetings, send out consistent emails reaffirming them, etc.
As a CEO, it’s impossible to be aware of everything as you scale. Anonymous surveys can provide valuable insights on leadership and day to day operations that a top down perspective might miss out on.
Quote of the Show:
“What I tell CEOs is the only way to have a good culture is make it something you truly care about.” - Nick Mehta
Hiring for Success - Nick Cromydas - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #8
01:05:38
Joining the show this week is a serial entrepreneur and angel investor that has invested in over 40 companies. He is one of the best when it comes to connecting people, this guest is none other than the Co-Founder and CEO of Hunt Club, Nick Cromydas.
Nick joins host David Politis to discuss his journey from a collegiate tennis player to a tech entrepreneur. Nick examines the importance of hiring curious and passionate people, as well as the importance of transparency. He delves into his innovative all-hands meetings and how they evolved over time.
Takeaways:
Entrepreneur from the start. Nick had been an entrepreneur his whole life. He started reselling tennis equipment as a kid, then built an online platform to connect college athletes and alumni, and now is a Co-Founder of one of the largest leadership search firms in the world.
A culture of asking questions. Hunt Club has been able to establish a monthly all-hands meeting dedicated to transparency, allowing the rest of the company to share their successes and perspectives, and open and honest communication within the company.
Leading with curiosity. Nick has found that many in the executive search industry don’t come from a solutions oriented background. When hiring for their team, they prefer to hire someone who is curious and willing to better understand the problem in front of them.
Having a passion outside of work. If an employee was ever passionate about something outside of their work, a good leader should work to recreate that passion for something in the business. Nick actively looks for passions when hiring new employees.
Bouncing back from rejection. The economic effects of the pandemic killed an acquisition deal of Hunt Club and caused an 80% loss in revenue shortly after. They were able to cut leadership compensation, cut costs, and capitalize on the new and unique deals to be exceeding goals a few months later.
Speed to resiliency. The time it takes to get over issues gets shorter as time goes on. What took weeks to get past when you start your business could take minutes to get over in the future.
Quote of the Show:
“If you don’t really build a culture where people are comfortable asking a really hard or direct question, or asking something that they don’t know, it’s impossible to actually close the gap on what you're trying to build together.” - Nick Cromydas
Building SaaS Giants - Alex Theuma - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #6
01:01:35
Joining the show this week is an entrepreneur with a work ethic that is second to none. Dedicating himself to helping SaaS companies grow and supporting founders, this guest is none other than the founder and CEO of SaaStock, Alex Theuma.
Alex joins host David Politis to discuss his journey building the largest SaaS community in the world. Alex examines the importance of having an executive coach, the benefits of growing your community, and the risks of a founder led business. He delves into the significance of hiring a mission-driven team and how SaaStock overcame Covid-19.
Takeaways:
The Impact of an executive coach. Alex spent much of his early time in SaaStock helping other entrepreneurs, but wasn’t helping himself in the same way. Having an executive coach allowed him to navigate the company through Covid-19 and grow to be a better leader.
Community building first. SaaStock started as a collection of blogs, podcasts, and chat groups dedicated to supporting founders. It wasn’t until he received overwhelming support and a desire for more that the conferences began and a business formed around it.
Growing into the future. In addition to the conference, SaaStock has begun expanding to better fill the needs of founders. This includes a membership to build a SaaS focused YPO and a fund to help support founders financially as well.
Risks of a founder led business. When a founder’s identity is closely attached to the business, the overall impact and growth potential of that business is at risk if the founder decides to step away.
Building a mission-driven team. The work that SaaStock does, especially in events, is both hard and rewarding. Having a team that is motivated by that reward and aligns with company values is crucial in building a successful team.
Overcoming Covid-19. Covid-19 brought in-person events to a halt and threatened the stability and cash flow of SaaStock. They were able to quickly pivot and became one of the first start-up events to hold a virtual conference, running for two days to capture the global community.
Quote of the Show:
“When you're there and you see the smiles on the faces and you see the value that people are getting from it, it does energize you.” - Alex Theuma
Transforming the Future of Customer Service - Dan Michaeli - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #10
00:57:20
How can predictable schedules, clear expectations, and a learning mindset boost company performance, strategic success, and leadership effectiveness? In this week’s episode, we dive in with the leading pioneer of unified interaction management, Dan Michaeli, Co-Founder and CEO of Glia, and explore his 12-year journey.
Michaeli emphasizes the importance of predictable schedules and clear expectations in driving company performance and executing strategic objectives. The discussion also covers his growth as a CEO, his approach to hiring and building an executive team, and lessons learned in sales and disrupting an industry. He shares personal insights on maintaining a learning mindset, staying sane amidst challenges, and the importance of continual adaptation in business.
Takeaways:
Fostering a Learning Mindset: Embrace a mindset that prioritizes identifying and filling knowledge gaps through diverse resources. Proficiency and situational awareness in various domains can significantly enhance leadership effectiveness.
Leverage Immediate Application for Learning: Utilize real-time opportunities to apply newly acquired knowledge. This experiential approach reinforces learning and builds proficiency.
Importance of Executive Search and Hiring Power: Consistently dedicate time and effort to personally source and recruit top talent. Engaging directly with candidates as a CEO can significantly boost response rates and attract high-caliber individuals.
Adapting and Rebranding for Growth: Be prepared for rebranding as part of your company's evolution. Rebranding, coupled with a strategic refocus and fundraising, can catalyze significant growth and redefine market positioning..
Communicating and Managing Change: Use established business rhythms to introduce and manage changes. Connecting change to regular and predictable events helps in gaining team buy-in and maintaining organizational agility and clarity.
Quote of the Show:
“The first step is really understanding what the gaps in your knowledge are, and then it's really driving to plug those gaps as effectively as possible.” - Dan Michaeli
The Journey of Scaling a Tech Company - Godard Abel - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #9
01:02:49
Joining the show this week is someone who’s been building and selling successful companies for 25 years. A well-known and widely respected name in the SaaS community, this guest is none other than the Co-Founder and CEO of G2, Godard Abel.
Godard joins host David Politis to discuss his journey building multiple successful businesses. Godard examines the importance of having the right co-founders, the benefits of a dialed-in team, as well as struggles when scaling a business. He delves into fundraising experiences and managing leadership transitions.
Takeaways:
The importance of trusted co-founders. Having co-founders that are equally committed to bringing the company vision to life helped motivate Godard to continue with G2’s mission.
Getting off the ground with reviews. After putting out G2’s alpha, Godard relied on receiving reviews at events like Dreamforce. They eventually started putting QR codes at the end of keynotes and handing out hoodies to gain thousands of new reviews.
Struggles with Silicon Valley. G2 struggled to gain investors initially, unsuccessfully pitching themselves to investors in California. It wasn’t until they focused on local Chicago opportunities that significant investments were made into G2.
Indirectly flooding Accel. Entrepreneur’s pitch Accel for fundraising started including G2 Grids in their decks en masse. This constant visibility got Accel to see the value in G2 and brought Godard back from Salesforce to scale the company.
Giving executives space to operate. While he still has consistent communication and 1 on 1s, Godard is a firm believer of giving executives freedom and responsibility within their roles.
Patience when hiring executives. David and Godard agree that rushing an executive hiring process is one of the easiest ways to hire the wrong person. Taking the time to find the right match, even if you have to wait for an individual, is worth the time.
Quote of the Show:
“I'm not like imposing my operating ideas on them, but I wait for them to come and ask. And then I try to be a good advisor, you know, but I let that be they pull… versus me pushing.” - Godard Abel
Changing Lives Through Tech - Jukay Hsu - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #7
00:42:35
Joining the show this week is an entrepreneur with a passion for getting people into the tech industry. With over a decade spent trying to improve the lives of low-income New Yorkers, this guest is none other than the Co-Founder and CEO of Pursuit, Jukay Hsu.
Jukay joins host David Politis to discuss his journey helping people get jobs in tech. Jukay examines the importance of having a mission-driven team, the challenges of going remote, and the importance of communal activity. He delves into adapting to change and how he sees AI affecting the workplace.
Takeaways:
Helping people earn more. Pursuit's fellowship program helps individuals transition from low-wage jobs to successful careers in tech, increasing the average income of their fellows from $18,000 before Pursuit to over $90,000 at their first job after Pursuit.
The impact of a mission-driven team. Pursuit’s mission is not one that can be achieved easily. Finding and hiring team members that share the same mission as Jukay helps keep his employees motivated and makes the payoff after successes even greater for all involved.
Ease and struggles of going remote. While many were able to easily transition into a remote environment during Covid-19, some fellows asked to remain in person as they do not have the ability to continue from home. Jukay highlights how important it is to understand how much access to technology their community has outside of Pursuit.
Technology changing industries. Jukay saw how technology was actively changing industries all over. He chose to focus his business on technology in order to make as big of an impact as he could.
The need to veto experts as CEO. CEOs will often get guidance or opinions from many stakeholders before making decisions. It is important to remember that a stakeholder’s expertise in one field won’t always translate to a similar field or situation.
People and AI. Jukay shares his thoughts on AI being introduced into the workplace. He points out that AI is just a tool and that people skills and problem solving in a business setting will be necessary no matter how much technology changes.
Quote of the Show:
“It doesn't feel like work. It just feels like things I'm interested in and care about, and solving things.” - Jukay Hsu
Innovation and Integrity - Loren Castle - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #4
00:58:56
Joining the show this week is an entrepreneur who is passionate about combining good taste and good for you ingredients. This leader in the good for you sweets industry is none other than Founder and CEO of Sweet Loren’s, Loren Castle.
Loren joins host David Politis to discuss their journey from surviving cancer in her early 20’s to being sold in over 25,000 supermarkets. Loren reflects on how her experiences led her to focus on creating sweets that tasted good, didn’t make you feel bad after eating them, and were available to those with gluten or other food allergies. Discover her insights for creating a strong core product, the importance of product quality, and the tactical brand impact of maintaining high standards.
Takeaways:
The impact of quality. Sweet Loren’s is an allergen free brand, so mitigating health and safety risks is their top priority. By investing in and maintaining the quality of their allergen free food, they built a trust with their customers.
Standing out in the crowd. Loren had to stand out among a sea of thousands of competing products. This drove her to focus heavily on conveying her products’ top selling points on their packaging design.
Make it easy for your customers. Customers in the modern market demand excellence, so it is important to both provide excellence and make it as easy for the customer as possible to implement your product into their lives.
Importance of standing by your brand. When a supplier sent a large order of contaminated flour, Loren made the decision to not compromise on her brand’s integrity and took a loss for not using any of that contaminated shipment.
The importance of mentorship. Sweet Loren’s took off from day 1 and she quickly realized how overwhelming it could be. Having business mentors allowed her to be vulnerable about herself and the business and get constructive feedback to boost her confidence.
Creating a strong core product first. Many in the food industry expand into new items within a few years, but Loren took 9 years to cement herself in the cookie dough market before exploring other product offerings.
Building a team. Having a second daughter made her realize how important having a capable team around her was. Hiring a president allowed her to focus on what she was good at and step away if needed to without impacting the day to day of the business.
Quote of the Show:
“Honestly the bigger our customer base gets, the more passion I get about it because the more we have people saying you've changed our lives.” - Loren Castle
Adapting with Integrity - Ryan Simonetti - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #14
01:06:42
In this insightful episode, we sit down with Ryan Simonetti, co-founder and CEO of Convene, as he shares the company’s inspiring 15-year journey. Known for its innovative meeting, event, and office spaces, Convene has expanded to nearly 40 locations across nine cities. Ryan discusses the vital role of core values established in 2011, which have guided the company through challenges, including the existential crisis brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Join us as Ryan emphasizes the importance of interviewing for core values, maintaining consistency in a high-growth environment, and promoting from within to nurture company culture. We also explore strategic vision, board dynamics, and the role of outsourcing in today’s workplaces. With reflections on his entrepreneurial influences and insights on leadership and parenting, Ryan offers valuable lessons for achieving long-term success and a hopeful outlook for the future. Don't miss this compelling conversation!
Takeaways:
Interviewing for Values: Evaluate candidates for alignment with your core values, using open-ended questions that reveal character and resilience.
Consistency Across Locations: Maintain consistent service and quality across locations to build customer trust and satisfaction, focusing on training and improvement.
Adapt and Stay Resilient: Stay adaptable and resilient during crises by maintaining hope, making quick decisions, and staying true to your core values.
Develop a Farm System: Promote from within to create a strong executive team by nurturing young talent and providing leadership opportunities.
Effective Board Management: Keep the board small for quicker decision-making and ensure regular communication through transparency.
Work-Life Integration: Involve your family in the business to instill a strong work ethic and understanding of the business world from an early age.
Quote of the Show:
“Everything's a trust trade… and part of my trust in you is that you can manage my expectations up or down, but please just don't surprise me.” - Ryan Simonetti
Marathon Mindset - John Fazzolari & Anthony Serina - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #3
01:06:45
Joining the show this week are two individuals who embody the idea of perseverance and grit, who’ve bootstrapped their way to become a leader in the electronic waste industry. This dynamic duo is none other than Co-Founders and Co-CEOs of Revivin, John Fazzolari and Anthony Serina.
John and Anthony join host David Politis to discuss their journey from storage unit offices to industry leaders. John and Anthony reflect on how their upbringings affected their entrepreneurial mindsets and their struggles to find product market fit. Discover their insights for creating a strong office culture, building and maintaining customer relationships, and the impact of staying bootstrapped throughout their growth.
Takeaways:
A company’s values evolve as the company continues to develop. You should have your values written down and communicated to everyone, but expect them to change over time.
Don’t let rejection slow you down. Instead, use it as motivation to keep going. John and Anthony faced plenty of rejection when starting out, but they persisted and found their place in the market without significant support.
Bootstrapping provides freedom to grow your company how you want. John and Anthony weren’t able to secure funding, and if given the chance they prefer the freedom that it provided as there are no boards to answer to when making big decisions.
Having a marathon mindset can be a great help to push through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. Building a business doesn’t always go exactly how you expect, so focus on your goal’s destination rather than how you get there.
Making Co-CEOs work isn’t for everyone. While most contemporaries have advised against it, John and Anthony have known each other for decades and were able to split duties while staying aligned on the same overall goal to become successful Co-CEOs.
When you’re starting out, go the extra mile to build relationships with your clients. Show them you care and that their feedback is valuable, as it can lead to customer loyalty.
Quote of the Show:
“Great companies have been built without capital, but not without people.” - John Fazzolari
“No matter how much we communicate something, we could always communicate more of it.” - Anthony Serina
From Family Business to 7x Google Cloud Partner of the Year - Tony Safoian - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #2
00:55:54
Joining the show this week is a technology visionary who’s been at the forefront of the cloud and SaaS space for almost 20 years. This individual turned his family’s small business into one of the world’s leading cloud consulting companies. This leader is none other than the CEO at SADA, Tony Safoian.
Tony joins host David Politis to discuss his journey turning a small managed service business into a freshly acquired top cloud consulting company. Tony reflects on how significant it was to choose a niche early and how it helped fuel his success. Discover his insights for understanding market needs, the benefits of joining YPO, and inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs.
Takeaways:
Establishing your business’ niche focus early is important for continued growth. When looking for a market niche, focus on underserved markets and provide a solution for that market that is scalable.
Not relying on external funding was a blessing for SADA’s growth as a company. Not being a venture-backed company forced SADA to be more disciplined with managing their portfolio and grow strategically within their market.
The art of strategic decision making is one that had to be mastered over the years. Being able to identify and say “no” to business streams that spread the company’s focus thin is a major factor in being able to effectively specialize.
Leaders must evolve with their company. It is crucial to be able to recognize environmental change and be willing to adapt to it. It is equally crucial to actively seek out growth opportunities that allow you to better align your knowledge with the market and clientele that your company is working with.
Meet new situations with enthusiasm. SADA’s acquisition by Insight marks a transition from operating as a private company to operating as a public company. It is important to be excited about the challenges and use them as growth opportunities.
A company’s early success can largely be attributed to the dedication of its employees and the culture that they work in. Focusing on hiring driven employees over experienced employees allowed them to grow with the company and become the experts that SADA needed.
Quote of the Show:
“Nothing is as bad as it seems and nothing is as good as it seems. So just make the most of every day.” - Tony Safoian
Strategies for Startup Success - Jeron Paul - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #5
01:04:18
Joining the show this week is an entrepreneur who embodies the entrepreneurial spirit through his journey of founding and selling four successful companies. This illustrious guest is none other than the founder and CEO of Spiff, and now Senior Vice President of Product at Salesforce, Jeron Paul.
Jeron joins host David Politis to discuss his extensive career, including selling his latest company to Salesforce. Jeron examines the importance of assembling a high-quality executive team, the benefits and challenges of using headhunting firms, and the vital role of maintaining close involvement with the product. He delves into the significance of engineers understanding their CEO’s expectations and the advantage of involving investors in key search processes.
Takeaways:
Build a strong executive team. It is crucial to have the right people in the right positions at the senior level. Leaders should focus on assembling and nurturing their executive team for overall company success.
Balance short-term necessity with long-term fit. While it can be tempting to rush hires out of necessity, it’s critical to find the right fit for long-term success. Investing time upfront saves future complications.
Get deeply involved in product development. Have a hands-on approach in the early stages of product development to ensure that the foundation is robust and scalable. Leaders should understand their products at a deep level to guide their teams effectively.
Navigate investor and acquirer relationships. Establishing early connections with potential investors and acquirers on your terms can position your company favorably for future exits or acquisitions.
Understand the importance of a partner in search firms. The success of using a search firm is often attributed more to the individual partner you work with than the firm itself. Leaders should seek firms with robust networks and partners who are highly regarded.
Ask for personal feedback. Leaders should be prepared for and open to constructive feedback, even when it’s tough. Developing self-awareness and humility is key to personal and professional growth.
Maintain work-life balance. Despite the challenges, leaders need to strive for a balanced approach to work and family life. Recognizing the need for presence at home can be just as important as business success.
Quote of the Show:
“Companies can be bought or sold. You want to be bought. You don't want to be sold.” - Jeron Paul
Leading with Vision and Determination - Kathryn Minshew - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #11
01:08:24
In this episode, we sit down with Kathryn Minshew, Co-Founder and former CEO of The Muse, to discuss her journey in the tech and entrepreneurship space. She shares her experiences from fundraising challenges and building a team to the crucial leadership lessons she learned along the way.
Kathryn emphasizes the importance of being comfortable with making unpopular decisions and the impact of integrating experienced executives into a growing company. She also delves into her recent adventures in advising companies, investing in Broadway shows, and potentially planning her next entrepreneurial venture.
Takeaways:
Accept That Not Everyone Will Support Your Choices: As a leader, you may have access to information that others don’t, which can lead to misunderstandings. Focus on acting with integrity and staying true to your values.
Encourage Open Dialogue but Know When to Decide: Foster a culture where team members feel comfortable expressing dissenting opinions. However, there comes a time when you must make the final decision and stand by it.
Continuously Reevaluate Leadership Approaches: Regularly assess and refine your leadership strategies. Engage with diverse perspectives through reading, mentoring, or coaching to enrich your approach.
Adopt a Collaborative Mindset: Effective leadership involves seeking advice and fostering collaboration. Welcoming external insights can enhance your decision-making and strengthen your team’s capabilities.
Learn from Setbacks: Challenges and failures can offer valuable lessons. Use feedback from rejections or setbacks to improve your methods and strategies for future success.
Quote of the Show:
“I think culturally we often still want women to be women. Really caring, really kind, really likable… but I also have to make hard calls to run a business. People punish women more when they perceive those things are in conflict.” - Kathryn Minshew
Creating Impact with Leadership and Growth - Ryan Westwood - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #12
01:02:28
This episode features Ryan Westwood, the Chairman and CEO of Fullcast, discussing his career and the strategies behind growing successful businesses. Ryan, who has been involved with nearly 100 companies, shares insights from his experience at Simplus, which he grew to over $650 million in revenue before its acquisition by Infosys.
He emphasizes understanding customer personas and the importance of one-on-one interactions in driving business success. Ryan also shares his approach to fundraising, building the right team, and navigating the challenges of scaling a business. He advocates for deep customer understanding, sticking to a defined ideal customer profile (ICP), and the strategic use of AI in RevOps.
Takeaways:
Jump Right In: Don't hesitate to dive into challenges head-on. Taking decisive action is often the first step toward finding effective solutions.
Identify High-Impact Areas: Focus on areas that have the biggest impact on your organization. It’s important to prioritize tasks and projects that drive the most significant results.
Value One-on-One Time: Prioritize precious one-on-one time with your team. Personalized attention can foster stronger relationships and address individual needs more effectively.
Deliver Consistently: Consistent delivery of work and results builds trust and reliability within your team and with stakeholders. Ensuring that you follow through on your commitments is a great way to build loyalty.
Communicate Often: Regular communication is key. Whether it's calling individual team members or holding regular meetings, keep the lines of communication open to ensure everyone is aligned.
Focus on Direction, Not Speed: While speed can be important, it's more crucial to ensure that your team is moving in the right direction. Align on goals and ensure everyone is headed toward the same objectives.
Quote of the Show:
“It's so important that as an entrepreneur, we're humble…And I think a lot of entrepreneurs lose precious years because they don't ask enough questions.” - Ryan Westwood
Crafting Success: The Path to Innovation - Nathan Rosenstock - Not Another CEO Podcast - Episode #13
01:01:28
This week we’re joined by Nathan Rosenstock, Co-founder and CEO of Crafty, as he shares his journey as a first-time founder in the food service management industry. Recognized by Forbes as one of America's best startups, Crafty provides a centralized platform for workplace needs and has expanded to 35 markets across five countries.
Nathan discusses the challenges he encountered, from navigating significant operational shifts during the pandemic to adapting business models and managing rapid growth. He emphasizes the importance of detail-oriented leadership, building empathy within teams, and how constraints can foster innovation. Additionally, Nathan highlights the value of continuous learning, the benefits of an executive coach, and the importance of a clear company identity when seeking investment.
Takeaways:
Know Your Business Inside and Out: Understanding every detail of your business fosters empathy and credibility, making it easier to connect with and lead your team effectively.
Be Ready to Adapt Your Business Model: When faced with challenges like the pandemic, pivoting from a market-by-market rollout to a platform model that integrates local operators was key to Crafty’s survival and growth.
Build Strong Client Relationships: Nurturing close relationships with clients, even as the company scales, provides valuable insights and fosters trust and loyalty.
Choose the Right Investors: It’s crucial to find investors who truly understand and align with your business model, rather than redefining your pitch for each and every investor. Being genuine to potential investors may not win them all, but it will help you get investors that truly understand your goals.
Embrace Constraints: Embracing constraints can drive innovation and sharpen focus. Working with limited resources often leads to more efficient and effective outcomes, rather than spreading too thin with excess resources.
Quote of the Show:
“If you're trying to bend your business to fit what an investor wants, that's a really slippery slope.” - Nathan Rosenstock
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