Jim's Take (Jim Frawley, Bellwether)

Happy April!  I hope and trust that this post finds you well. Change has been the watchword of recent times; our ability to adapt has been strongly tested, and will continue to be tested in the coming weeks.  Today, I am continuing with my interviews of Irish Bellwethers. If you recall, my March podcasts were all set up to highlight Irish leaders in different industries, but then some kind of pandemic had to get in the middle of it, and I had to postpone two of the guests. I don’t know who to complain to about that, but once I figure it out I’m writing a strongly-worded letter. Fortunately for you, pandemics won’t stop me from highlighting this week’s Irish Bellwether, because one of her specialties is understanding the psychology of and adapting to change. It’s one of her specialties because not only can she teach it, she has experienced it as well.  Catherine Norris is an Irish entrepreneur and the Irish executive coach. She has a truly unique perspective, influenced by her background in the arts, law, education and tourism. She has done it all: Started a dance school. Studied Psychology. And she has studied Anthropology. And she reads academic journals for fun. She is, put simply, a person you want on your team.  I’ve now known Catherine for about six months, and conversations typically begin lightly (as in, how is your day?) and roller coaster to the end with her giving me a verbal dissertation on the neuroscience behind offering my daughter an extra cookie.  What I'm trying to say is that I learn something from Catherine every time I speak with her which, to a guy who likes to pretend he knows everything, is pretty damn impressive.  I loved the interview; she shared so much of what she has learned as an entrepreneur, educator and coach. One aspect that will ring true for many of you is her simple lesson: to be successful, you must continually articulate your vision.  As we deal with change, your vision will have to change with it. For organizations to survive, that vision will have to be created, articulated and communicated consistently.  Catherine is a rock star and one of the smartest people I’ve met. To learn more, you can reach out to her at catherine@bellwetherhub.com. Enjoy! Catherine and Jim at Gotham Podcast Studios

This week’s podcast highlights a Bellwether of Irish American origin. Patrick Flynn is playwright, actor, professor, host of the Original Cast Podcast and casual vexillologist (look it up), among many other things.  What fascinates me, and what I love, about playwrights, actors and musicians is the fact that they all have one thing in common: they expend their energy creating something new that leaves them vulnerable enough to be destroyed by strangers.  We all have a fear of rejection, of failure, of being disliked. And to follow a path of love to a place riddled with each is one journey that most people won’t dare to take. Those that do take the journey earn my legitimate and sincere respect.  Patrick is brilliant, in the truest sense of the word. Not only does he create fantastic and entertaining work, he is also brilliant in the way that he communicates with the people around him. He is a light; I sincerely believe that it is impossible to not like Patrick.  We all know at least one person like Patrick. Opinionated, but not obnoxious. Curious, but not overwhelming. Interesting, but not crazy. In essence - they are people you want around.  And the reason you want them around isn’t just because they make you feel good, but because they have a perspective and experience that resonates with us and we can learn from.  This episode is just the tip of the iceberg. He shares his thoughts on the line between confidence and arrogance, and how to deal with negative feedback. The dichotomy between “I’m not good enough” and “Yes, you should see my play.” It’s the push and pull that we all deal with in many walks of life. He even gave me what we call a “breakthrough moment” in my personal relationship with musicals. Yes, we are all going to fail. Yes, it’s going to hurt. But that’s life and it’s part of the journey. And when you love what you do - the opinion of others becomes secondary.  Fortunately for all of us, Patrick has found his spot on this planet. He’s doing great things, and I know you will enjoy him and his work.  You can learn more about Patrick at www.unknownpenguin.com The Original Cast Podcast is available wherever your lovely podcasts are obtained. You can follow on Twitter: @originalcastpod Patrick can be found on a number of social media platforms: @unknownpenguin The Unknown Penguin, aka Patrick Flynn

Isolation and solitude are the name of the game in a triathlon. That's never more evident than when you hit a "dark place" close to the finish.

https://youtu.be/B3IP3HCWg1o Last week I chatted about my dark place, and what I learned in dealing with it. I didn’t feel like I could really talk about my dark place, though, without talking about why I gave up drinking, so I’m covering that this week.  I’ve always admired people who could talk about their challenges “matter of factly.” I see a person with that ability as a person in control - of their emotions, their decisions, and their life. They have separated their value from the fact that they had some kind of difficulty. Everyone has a difficulty - a challenge - some kind of dark place, or demon, or insecurity that they are dealing with. Admitting it, embracing it, and recognizing it isn’t just powerful - it’s cathartic.  A few people have reached out to me over the past few weeks asking how I did it, and I’ve had some powerful conversations with people. Isolation and solitude is a challenge. Booze consumption is at record highs, and I understand why. We are bored, lonely, uncomfortable - what else is there to do BESIDES drink? I joke with my wife - I don’t know how I would be getting through all of this if I still did booze.  This isn’t an episode to tell you not to drink. Feel free. I would never presume to tell you that you need to be something other than you. Some people handle their booze well and are all good. My opinion on your life is irrelevant. I don’t welcome unsolicited advice from others; I hope you don’t either. This is simply my story of why I gave up booze - my motivations, what got me to finally do it, what I learned by doing it. Put simply, it’s on the short list of best decisions I have ever made. But it’s the best decision because it was the right decision for me at the right time.  The podcast has all the juicy details, so I won’t write them all out here. And if you know me, you know I was a good drinker. It was a core part of my identity, which is probably why I struggled with the desire to stop. If I wasn’t a drinker, then who was I? Filling in such a big gap, i.e. my life as a drinker, felt like a monumental task.  I’ve been fortunate - it wasn’t as difficult as I thought, and I attribute that to understanding why I wanted to stop drinking, understanding who I wanted to be, and understanding what really drove my desire to drink. I had and have support, and, possibly most importantly, I have the matter of fact perspective I mentioned above.  I don’t see myself ever being a drinker again. My life is better, my business tripled almost overnight after stopping, and I feel amazing. That, and if I did drink again, the hangover would probably last a fortnight. I am focused, and I’m ready. For those who question their own situation or want to chat more, I‘m here to listen - feel free to reach out. For those in more serious situations, there of course is Alcoholics Anonymous (I know people who have gone and recommend it), there is therapy, and there are additional resources. Non-judgmental help is all around you - but you have to ask for it. And in the words of the Reddit non-drinking group, “I will not drink with you today.” (IWNDWYT). Best wishes to your sanity, your health, and your hobbies throughout the corona time. Thanks for tuning in, and I look forward to sharing more in the coming weeks! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM33vFc8A9E&feature=youtu.be Happy Wednesday.  First - I want to thank everyone for the lovely notes and conversations over the past few weeks generated from the last two podcasts. They seem to have resonated with a lot of people, which is great. What I found in many of the conversations I had with people is that we all have different ways of looking at challenges. With that in mind, my focus on this week’s podcast is on problems vs. circumstances. We all hear that we should just “focus on what we can control” and everything will be fine. It’s a positive psychology-type of mentality that is helpful for some - but to just leave it at that leaves a lot out. We assume we know what we can control.  When I think about challenges, I put them into two buckets: problems and circumstances. Problems I can solve, circumstances I respond to. 99% of my (and your) challenges are from circumstances. Coronavirus is a circumstance. Having asthma is a circumstance. Job loss is a circumstance.  All three of those are facts and things to deal with. The reason they are circumstances is because you cannot stop whatever it is - you can only make choices based on how it hits you. If you lose your job, you have a number of choices to make as to your next step in how you respond. Same with isolation and corona, same with asthma. You have choices as to what your best next steps will be. The reason I like to bucket challenges this way is because it gives me guidelines for accountability and focus. If 99% of my challenges are circumstantial, then I am accountable for making good decisions. And that’s where it ends. If someone else has a problem, it’s not mine. I leave it alone (unless they ask for my help, of course). If it sounds simple, it’s because it generally is. However, it’s not easy. Oftentimes, the decisions we have to make will require us to sacrifice something in order to get it. That’s part of your decision making process. What are you willing to give up to get what you want?  The question for this week is whether or not you are where you want to be or thought you’d be, whether you are 30, 50, 70. If the answer is no, then it’s time to start thinking about what you would like to change. We have plenty of time to think right now, and good thinking generally leads to good decision making.  So happy thinking, enjoy the week and I look forward to seeing everyone soon!

It's always a good time to learn. Now, especially, is a great time to learn. Sean Froudist-Walsh is an Irish neuroscientist in New York who shares how to tap your brain to learn more effectively.

Now is a time of learning, with businesses, society, communities and our own identities facing questions and change.

As the tides of change come in, our ability to make effective decisions in a short time frame is becoming more important than ever.

My background in the financial industry has provided me some interesting insight and views on how to think about money. I wasn’t a financial advisor, however, which is why I haven’t brought up the financial discussion on this show. That ends today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itRWYxviWyE&feature=youtu.be Last week I interviewed Tom Rizzo on the show. Tom is a jazz guitarist turned financial advisor with a great story and a genuine concern to help freelancers find financial freedom. There was great advice in that show - I recommend, of course, that you listen to it.  But as I reflected on some of the conversations I’ve had with people who desired a financial tint to the show, I thought that maybe, despite its basic level, for some it was too advanced. And in the effort to get you as much tangible, actionable information as possible - I am giving you “the 3.”  Money is funny. We have to learn to treat it like the commodity it is, we can’t worship it, yet we need it; it drives our opportunities and prospects. Money isn’t “evil” in and of itself, but the “love” of money can be detrimental. Therefore, we need to have a healthy appreciation of it, and understanding of its “value,” and we need a strategy to get it.  Financial freedom is a long haul. But in order to get there, we need to know three numbers: 1. Our Net Worth, 2. Our Budget, 3. Our Goal. Another way is to think of it like a vacation - know where you are starting, what is your vehicle, and where are you going. Net Worth: Where You Are Starting.  You can’t create a map if you don’t know where the start is. Your net worth is a snapshot of what you have in case something happens. It’s your guide to see where you are on your journey. If your goal is to have $5 million, and your net worth is $4, you know you have a longer journey ahead of you. Or, perhaps, you have the money you need, and that realization that you no longer need to work is amazing.  Here is how you figure out your net worth. Take a sheet of paper or excel or whatever, and add up everything that has real monetary value: Your checking and savings accounts, any retirement or brokerage accounts, the value of your home. Then, subtract any obligations you have, otherwise known as debt: your credit cards, your mortgage payment, your car loan, student loans. Voila - that’s your net worth. Note on net worth: If it’s negative - that’s OK. Now you know. And if I learned anything from GI Joe - knowing is half the battle. You can then put together a plan to get it positive. Which brings us to budget.  Budget: How You Get There You need a vehicle to get where you are going. For some it’s a Corvette, others a Pinto. It’s all good - the Pinto gets there faster in this game.  Your budget is how you find the money to save and invest which will get you closer to your goal. I could write a book of names who make so much money yet live paycheck to paycheck. It’s your check and balance, and the consistent way to hit your goal. Treat your budget like you would a business. Money that comes in - your paycheck(s), is your revenue. Pay yourself. Money that goes out - i.e. bills - are your expenses. If you want to hit financial freedom, the revenue number has to be higher.  Here is how you create your budget: Take another sheet of paper or excel doc, and list out all of your expenses. ALL of them. Don’t just put in the grocery store and leave out the restaurants. It’s time to take a hard look at where your money is going. It’s either being spent on 1 of 3 areas: Needs (i.e. shelter and food), Wants (you don’t need a Snuggie) and You. “You” is where you pay yourself and set yourself up for whatever goal you want.  The budget exercise takes an hour or so but it’s worth it. It’s a hard look at all the crap you have been buying from Amazon; a recognition that $1,

Up this week: How to Advocate for Yourself. 

I recognize it’s not something we typically think about. We see change happening, we get frustrated, we look externally at what others have or have not done, we blame and move on. 

In addition, we are finding that more and more everything is done for us – technology makes everything easy. I speak to many groups who “defer to others,” i.e. wait for someone else to do things for us. 

The problem with this approach is multi-faceted – we can’t expect others to subscribe to our individual timelines and needs. Just because we find something important for us, others would see a different perspective more important to themselves. I think of people trying to buy houses today, frustrated that so many people have “bought the Airbnbs and jacked up the housing prices while lowering inventory.” 

It’s a problem vs. circumstance challenge: problems we can solve, circumstances we must respond to. And 99% of our “problems” are actually just circumstances. 

While there is a collective general sentiment and group need to accommodate a bigger picture, we still have an accountability to ourselves to ensure that we are doing what’s best for ourselves … and putting our best out there to get it. This requires us to be educated, be curious, do the work on what we believe, understand that beliefs don’t mean truths … and so much more. 

Advocating for yourself isn’t just screaming about what you want. It’s about asking good questions and making sure your questions are answered in a way that you can understand. We may not like the answers … but such is life. 

Lots to think about as we set ourselves up for success, but finding your voice is an important first step. 

Enjoy the week! 

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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast

3,2, 1. Welcome to Bellwether, episode 109, The topic today, How to advocate for yourself. And it’s a big topic, very pressing today. I feel like, you know, big picture, I’ll just jump right into it. I’m just gonna jump right into it today. Big picture, everything is done for us, and I think that’s dangerous and we don’t have to work for anything anymore. And one of the big tenants that I realize a little too late, or you hear it and you don’t internalize it too much, is that we are accountable.

0:46

We are accountable, period. But we’re accountable to ourselves above all others. And we have a responsibility for ourselves above all others. And, you know, we talk about ethical philosophy, do what’s best for others, and, and you become good yourself, and yada yada yada, and all that stuff. And that’s true. But I like to flip that. And it’s kind of what I wrote the book on. It’s what I, what I had talked about other times, uh, a lot of other times is, you know, I would argue that ethical philosophy has a backwards, where you have an obligation to focus on yourself so that you can be in service to other people.

1:23

So they’re getting your best. And part of that, uh, is, is advocating for yourself and making sure you are getting what you need and getting what’s what’s appropriate. And too often we defer to others and expect others to be doing what’s in our best interests. Now, this can quickly go down into a rabbit hole of <laugh>. What’s the appropriate limit of, uh, what’s best for me versus the, the bigger world? I’m looking at you anti-vaxxers.

1:57

Um, but, but we have to, we have to find that balance. We got a little spider here. Hello. Um, and so, you know, there are a few different angles to think about here. So when I think about everything’s being done for us and we expect things to be done for us, and I think that’s dangerous, and that gives us an expectation that things will be done for us in other types of, of scenarios, uh, to often we defer, Oh, that person’s an expert, so that’s okay.

2:28

Um, but we expect other people to subscribe to what we need, and we don’t necessarily question it. Um, oftentimes we’re told we’re supposed to be humble and just take what we’re given that’s wrong. Uh, which you’ve heard me talk about the humility. And, and I say it’s, it’s not wrong to be humble. I think a lot of people misinterpret humility and that causes them to have ineffective actions. Um, so it’s, I I would say it’s wrong to be a lot of these things.

2:55

So it requires us to, to just think differently, but it gives us an additional responsibility. And that’s what I want to talk about today. Um, because there is a, a much larger picture than ourselves. And so we can ask good questions. There’s an appropriate way to advocate for ourselves, but at the same time, we have a responsibility to the larger world around us. And how do we find that balance in a really appropriate way?

3:19

You know, the big news this week was this professor at Princeton who got fired, not at Princeton. He used to be at Princeton. Now he is at nyu. He retired from Princeton. Now he is a, a chemistry professor at nyu. And he got fired because there was a petition of about 80 kids in his organic chemistry class or something who said that the class was too hard. And he got fired. And there are two people on both sides of the camp.

3:46

And the people, you know, they advocated. They said, Look, people are getting zeros on these tests. It’s impossible to pass, and you’re ruining our medical careers valid, I suppose. But then there were the people who worked with the teachers saying, Look, we gave them all these resources. It’s more of a recent problem. It’s the same class that we’ve had before. These people never opened the resources that we gave them. And so, you know, they tried to make these adaptations that people didn’t adopt.

4:10

Other people were fine, who went through the extra stuff and did the extra work and, and kind of worked hard to do it. And so what’s that balance to advocate for this group? Uh, and making sure that people are getting what they needed to be successful. Um, so you have an obligation to do work. You have an obligation to adapt. You have an obligation to, to mold yourself into what a larger picture is doing.

4:32

But at the same time, you have to ask for help and do what you need in, in, in advocating for yourself. So first, what does that mean? Let’s, let’s talk about what advocating for ourselves really means. Because, um, advocating is a big word. It’s not just having, you know, complaining and having people do what you want. Um, it’s making sure that people are answering what you need and asking, answering your questions, asking really good questions to make sure that you’re getting what you, what you need.

5:00

This could be in the workplace, this could be medically, this could be, uh, educationally, it could be whatever, whatever you need. And when we, we talk about advocation, it’s not about dictating your will on other people. That’s not advocating for yourself, but it’s openly and publicly supporting ourselves, which is different, very, very different than just imposing your will on everyone else. Um, we need to speak up when something doesn’t jive and we can ask really good questions.

5:35

And, and we recognize there may be a general, general sentiment of what’s needed. May need a slight tweak for us. We need to make the tweak. That’s okay. Um, there is a betterment for the the bigger collective group, but we can’t assume that other people are thinking about us in the way that we think about us. So we have to advocate for ourselves within our structures. There are confines of the world that we live in.

6:00

Uh, we have a society and a responsibility to society within which we live a responsibility to the educational system within we, within which we live. That would be the NYU story. We have an allocation to, you know, have you just lowered the quality of education because this guy made it too hard, uh, and you fired him. Um, what are our own expectations of ourselves? And what are the expectations that we wanna hold for the people around us?

6:25

And these are questions we have to answer as individuals. Uh, when I think about it in the workplace, cause I always like to bring this to the workplace, to bring it to the workplace. Uh, when we think about we can’t assume what other people are thinking about us. We hear a lot of these things all the time. And I hear it, especially in coaching. You know, someone will notice if I work hard enough, work hard, put your head down and you’ll be rewarded.

6:49

Um, this person’s the team leader, so they must know what’s going on. Uh, we make a lot of these assumptions that are just wrong because we’ve heard these assumptions or we felt these assumptions over time. Maybe when we first got into the organization and we were young, we just assumed the manager knew what was going on, and we just did whatever it was. Uh, I was told since I was a little kid, work hard.

7:10

And people will notice. Um, yeah, they’ll notice, but you’re not gonna be rewarded for it. Uh, you’re gonna be taking advantage of. And so, or you could be taking advantage of, it’s not always true. You know, um, you know, you, you can work hard, but you also have to know how to navigate. It’s your responsibility to navigate. People aren’t necessarily taking advantage of you. You just haven’t navigated in the right kind of way.

7:31

And that was my problem. Um, do I, I certainly wouldn’t blame other people for that. Um, but it’s, it’s beyond the workplace as well. And when I think about, you know, how to take action, right? And this is ultimately what it comes down, we have an accountability to ourselves to take action in the best way for ourselves, right? So you can work really hard. Don’t wait for someone to tell you and recognize cuz people are busy thinking about themselves.

7:58

How do you speak up and ask questions? You know, am I on the right path? How do I get to that next job? This is the next thing that I want. And articulate that, articulate what’s best for you beyond work. I think a lot, and what really drove me to start thinking about this now that I’m like 10 minutes into the podcast is this constant discussion on housing. Um, nobody can buy a house right now for a lot of different reasons.

8:27

Uh, and so this is a big millennial problem, and I hate using the term millennial, but it’s true. They’re in their, you know, thirties and, and I guess they’re in their thirties. That’s the millennial age, the thirties. And this is when you buy houses, and this is when you start families and you do all that stuff. Pandemic hit everyone bought houses, prices weren’t skyrocketing. Now interest rates are crazy. Nobody can afford a house.

8:47

You’ve got hedge funds, uh, investing in houses as a safe kind of way to, to funnel money for a down economy. So they’re buying up all the, the houses. So the starter home is effectively gone. But the other thing, and you see people complaining about it, is a lot of millennials bought like seven houses and they’re using them for Airbnb and everything else. And, um, and people are saying, Look, this is why I can’t buy a house because you bought seven of ’em and you’re running out on Airbnb.

9:14

This is bullshit. But guess what? Life lesson, um, <laugh> you waited too long. Or, um, or I mean, to be fair, there’s also people aren’t making what they used to make. So that’s, that’s kind of a different story as well. But, you know, there is a, an accountability aspect of I can’t buy a house because you should not be doing something and or you should be doing something or, you know, we’re pointing our fingers.

9:40

And I hate it when somebody says, you should or I can’t because you, um, and there are two, two things to think about. There are problems and there are circumstances and problems you could solve. 99% of our problems are not problems. They’re circumstances. Okay? So problems you could solve, you can’t solve the fact that other people are buying Airbnbs and trying to rent them out, okay? That’s a circumstance in which you have to respond to problems, you could solve circumstances you respond to.

10:09

And so we can’t dictate what other people need to do so we can do something we need to adapt. And, and when we say advocating for ourselves, it’s not just speaking up, it’s taking action for ourselves. And so this is the big, this is the big rub in terms of accountability and advocating in all of these things. All these a words is, uh, we need to think hard about what actions we could take.

10:36

We’re gonna have to take some risks in terms of getting to where it is, getting to the next level at the workplace. Buying that house is buying house even, you know, this is, this gets into the fun philosophical stuff. Do you even really need to buy a house? Um, and how do you do it in really funky ways? Um, and this goes back to, you know, when I talk about belief systems and what do you really believe?

10:58

And can we question everything? What assumptions do we make? And can we do, you know, is a 5 29 really the best way to save for your kids when you’ve got such a narrow way to invest? If I were to put all this money away from my in a 5 29 for my kid, what’s college gonna be like in 20 years? Right? Is it even gonna be a college? Why don’t I just put it into a brokerage account And when they grow up, say, Hey, here’s$500,000.

11:22

Start a business, right? Would that be a better way to, to set my kids up for success? Is college really setting your kids up for success? What assumptions are built into all of these frameworks that are around us? You need to think about what’s best for you and your family. And it may not be all of these things that were set up for a general, you know, let’s do this for the collective.

11:46

Good, that’s fine. But you may need some tweaks and you may need to thumb your nose at some of those things that, you know, we have these assumptions on, on what it should be. So we have to take action and responsibility for getting ourselves up to success. Now, I will agree with you, the housing market’s a bunch of, uh, bs right now. Thank God we bought a house so long ago. Um, and so I feel that pain, right?

12:08

It’s, I’m not saying it’s, you know, it’s not your fault that you can’t buy a house completely, um, or in some cases at all, right? I mean, I know these people who, who made decisions and they’re paying off all these crazy student loans and they’re, they’re raising kids and they’re doing all of these things. And, and there are some people would say, Well, you shouldn’t have had kids and you shouldn’t have gotten to college.

12:28

And, um, I think that’s bogus. Don’t say you should or shouldn’t have people made decisions and, and you know, it’s where they are today, okay? So don’t tell someone what they should or shouldn’t do. Um, but what I would say is, you know, it’s now a response mechanism is how are you responding to the circumstance within which you find yourself? That’s where accountability really lies. And that’s where advocating for yourself really lies is past this past, okay, we’ve learned, right?

12:59

It’s a life lesson. We find ourselves in this current situation. What decisions can we make today to advocate for ourselves for success tomorrow? And that’s when, when we think about that is it comes down to a lot of questions. We have to ensure understanding of where we are. And we can’t make all of the assumptions that other people are doing, uh, stuff for us. Uh, nobody can do it for us. You have to take control and you have to take action in order to make it.

13:24

So a little bit of a ramble today, but I think it’s an important reminder, um, that life is, life gets easy with all this technology and things are done for us. You know, we get all our news just hand fed to us in the morning. We get all of our, you know, our refrigerator tweets us, um, or texts us when, um, we’re low on carrots. Uh, you know, everything is done for us and we forget that we have a responsibility to take action and think for ourselves.

13:51

And so advocating for ourselves, thinking for ourselves, and making choices for ourselves are, uh, an incredibly important part of life. And that is true at home, in the workplace, um, and our financial decisions and everything else. So with that, I’m happy to help you think through it. I love thinking about the assumptions we make and, and just blowing them up and getting philosophical on those, you know, why, why do you need to own a car?

14:17

Why do you need, you know, to all do all of these types of things? Some of them you just have to, right? We get it. And you could think through it, you know, you could question it and still come to the same realization that the way it’s set up is fine. That’s okay. Uh, but it’s a’s a good exercise to think through it. So advocate, think, think, think, think, challenge the way you’re thinking, uh, as winning the pool would say, think, think, think.

14:40

And um, yeah. Good luck. Have a great week. Enjoy your week. I’ll talk to you soon. Thanks.

A month ago, I published an article on HR.com regarding how we measure the value of coaches and hold them accountable. 

It’s been an ongoing discussion in the tiny world of coaching – this challenge of showing value and ROI on what are typically “soft skills” and items difficult to measure. 

But what’s rarely discussed is how we hold coaches accountable for the promises of development that they make. 

We’ve seen the news recently of layoffs and changes happening across numerous industries. And what I’m seeing based on this is an increase in individuals looking to pay for coaches out of their own pockets – either they are looking to better position themselves amid layoffs within a company, or are looking for a career coach to help them land their next gig. 

If you happen to be in this camp, or, if you work with coaches or a coaching program in your organization, I would encourage you to move beyond just the ROI conversation (it’s still needed!) and move the discussion to accountability as well. For any coaching engagement to be truly successful, all three parties need to be accountable: coach, client and organization. 

Vulnerable people often look for a guru, and there is no shortage of those in the coaching world. However, when everyone claims to be an expert or offers a promise to the yellow brick road, they should be held accountable for what they can and can’t deliver. 

As always – happy to chat about how Bellwether approaches this philosophically and realistically – we guarantee success in our coaching engagements. 

Thanks and have a great week!

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Click here for an unedited transcript of the podcast Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for joining this week. This is take, I think this is my fourth take doing this episode. So we’re just gonna run with it. And I don’t care if it just cuts off in the middle of it. One time my recorder turned off cause the battery died another time. Something I was, whatever. Here we’re talking about coaching, we’re talking about firing all the coaches. This is gonna be very relevant for you and it’s gonna be very relevant for your businesses. 0:25

And, um, and it’s an important topic because a lot of people need it. And it’s, it’s, you know, I’ll tell you why. Let me just tell you why the world is, is buckling and it’s a difficult place to be right now. And there are a lot of people, I’m having a lot of conversations from a developmental standpoint. Um, people are either looking to invest in themselves to paying outta pocket for coaches, uh, to make sure that they’re positioned well before layoffs happen. 0:53

It’s a little too late for that, but people are making that investment right now. How do I do it? Who do I talk to? I’m having a lot of, uh, conversations like that. They’re also people looking for career coaches who I don’t typically work with, but I, I’ll refer them if you’re looking for that. Um, who unfortunately were wrapped up in the layoffs, all kinds of layoffs. I get a lot of those phone calls as well. 1:13

Um, and so I, I recently wrote an article, um, I I, I called it Fire All the Coaches and they, they very prudently changed the name of it to questioning the ROI or, or something along those lines. Um, I’ll put a link to it under this on, on the Bellwether Hub site. Um, but basically it was the argument of, as we look at what everybody’s looking to do and needing a coach, and there are a lot of vulnerable people, and I’ve, I’ve harped on this a lot and I apologize, but it’s very important, and this aligns very much with the previous episode on advocating for yourself is, um, there are a lot of vulnerable people who are looking for gurus. 1:55

And we need to make sure that we’re holding these gurus accountable, right? For the promises of development that they’re making. There’s the old saying, if you can’t do something, you teach. And if you can’t teach, you coach. Um, and I remember when I first got started in coaching, people were like, Oh, really? You’re a coach? Okay.You know, my half idiot cousin, um, who didn’t graduate college became a coach. Uh, I’ve seen all kinds of coaches. 2:17

There’s, there’s career coaches, executive coaches, women’s empowerment coaches. I just saw a social security coach the other day, wellness coaches, retirement coaches. There is a coach for anything and everything that you could possibly need and that’s great <laugh>. But, but, but, and I see this a lot in organizations and I get a lot of blank faces and I can’t believe it hasn’t hit them yet. Um, and I will drive this home for you. 2:48

If you are looking to spend money on you to invest in a coach, you’re actually, it’s not an investment in a coach. It’s an investment in you. And that coach needs to deliver you an ROI that’s acceptable to you, you that warrants the amount of money that you’re paying them. If you want to pay someone a hundred bucks an hour to listen to your problems, to give you advice, that’s fine, but you’re getting a hundred dollars an hour kind of advice, right? 3:10

Good coaches are a lot more expensive than that. Um, but anyway, so that’s what what spawned this conversation is I was talking to the head of field development at a bank and they’re spending buku bucks on coaches. And I, I knew this guy from when I worked in corporate, he was very gracious with his time. I just wanted to hear his perspective. I wasn’t pitching on anything. It was purely a, a friendly conversation. 3:34

And um, and he told me he was firing all their coaches, all the coaches that, that this, this company had, had hired to get their people all set up. And I said, Good, tell me more. That’s great. Awesome. Fire. All the coaches, um, basically everyone that was going through coaching was doing worse than everyone who wasn’t doing coaching. And I said, That’s a good reason to fire the coaches, right? Um, not only are you losing the productivity because they’re going off to sit in these coaching sessions, but they’re also now doing worse. 4:04

So they’re actually doing damage, right? Whoever these coaches were, then he told me how much he was paying for the coaches, and I almost choked. I laughed at him a little bit, um, cuz I didn’t think he was serious. And then I realized he was serious. And then I tried to back it back a little bit and I think I kind of pissed him off. Um, I couldn’t believe the amount of money they were spending on coaches. 4:24

Um, and ultimately I told them in a very nice way, it’s your own fault, right? They were holding, there was no accountability on the coaches that they were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on for these coaches, for all these advisors and all these other people. Um, not one success metric was defined. Not one way that they knew that this was a good investment. And the only way they figured it out was that they decided to take a look and said, Oh, these people are actually doing worse. 4:50

Okay? There was no set goal for, for the engagement. And, and then it formed a lot for me as I was setting up my program, um, because I’ve had similar conversations over time. Is there are these promises of what we can do. And you say, Well, how do you measure and say, Oh, well you can’t really measure leadership. Well know when we see it. You know, they say all these things, but there is, you know, if we’re making an investment, especially individuals who are paying out of their own pocket right now, you are the one who’s responsible for dictating success and what you expect of the coach. 5:25

If you hire someone to fix your computer, you have an expectation that they’re going to fix your computer and you’re gonna know that it’s fixed and it’s very clearly defined. My computer now works. It’s a little more difficult when we’re dealing with these intangible types of things. And so you have to tie it to behavior and you have to tie it to all these different things. And there are ways to establish an ROI for these intangible things that you’re not able to really measure. 5:50

Um, so I put this out there for those in hr, those executives who are looking for coaches for their teams, those individuals looking for coaching for themselves. Um, I don’t take clients unless I know that you could be helped, that I can help you. Um, I have fired three clients because it didn’t work and I gave them the money back. Um, and, and again, this is, you know, we’re dealing with vulnerable people right now who need help. 6:20

And so I think it’s very important for you to go into any kind of coaching engagement. And this is an advocating conversation for you. And this is for beyond coaching, right? This is a metaphor. Everything I talk about could be a metaphor you can go into so many different things is you are spending money. How are you going to know that this was money well spent? And how are how are you going to measure this? 6:43

Coaching works? Coaching works, it works. Uh, and it’s very good and it’s necessary. Coaching is necessary right now because the world is changing so incredibly fast. Um, we need someone to push our boundaries. We need someone to challenge our thinking. We need someone to question our judgements. We need someone to teach us how to move up in an organization, how to communicate and behave at much senior level, uh, senior levels of the organization, how to think in more of an enterprise fashion versus the smaller teams that, that we’ve been working in. 7:15

Um, how to communicate at different levels. Uh, and so we need coaches, we need good coaches. And if you are thinking of getting a coach, if you are thinking of doing any other kind of investment in you, which I think more people are going to be doing, and I think people are gonna be smarter and a little more tighter with their purse strings. Um, we have to figure out a measurable way to know that your coach is good. 7:43

Uh, anybody could promise anything. And there are a lot of, of snake oil salesman out there. And so I would encourage you to ask for the guarantee, ask for them to guarantee success. Uh, we guarantee success. And if you don’t hit it, you get the money back. So what I told the guy at the bank who was so angry, I said, Here’s how you should have structured your, your coaching engagement. The organization’s paying the bill, so they’re being held accountable, The person being coached, you should hold accountable in some way because you’re investing in them to change some kind of behavior. 8:13

And the coach has to be held accountable. So what you do is you have the individual pay the coach half, and if the coaching individual can figure out and get to whatever they gotta do, then the organization comes in and pays them both back. That’s how you do it. Coach doesn’t get paid, uh, the full thing. If they don’t hit their goals, the individual gets their money back. So it actually is cost, it costs neutral to them, and then the bank gets the ROI because they’re changing the behaviors and getting the revenue and doing all that other stuff. 8:40

So, um, for those, I don’t wanna spend, I don’t wanna harp too much on that little philosophy, but if you are thinking about coaching and setting up a coaching program, I’m happy to go into a lot of details on that and the way that we structure our contracts and everything else. Um, but it’s the wild west out there and, and everyone’s capable of doing great things. We just need a little bit of push and hold people accountable for the promises of development that they’re making. 9:05

It’s the only thing I’m gonna say. And we, we need to hold everybody accountable for the things that they’re saying people aren’t really thinking. And, um,you know, if you’re gonna make a promise, you gotta deliver. And that’s what I’ll leave you with <laugh>. It’s a quick episode today. I hope this thing doesn’t die again. Um, it’s a little zoom recorder, but uh, have a great week. Um, think about your coaching, think about your development, and think about ways that you can invest in you and get a really big roi, whether it’s for you or for your company, for anybody else. 9:39

And I’m, as always, I’m happy to talk about it. So have a great week. Enjoy. Thank you for listening to my little rant. And next week I’ve got an interview, uh, with a very incredible individual who’s overcome some incredible stuff. Uh, Dan McQueen will be on the episode, uh, The Bellwether Hub Podcast, so more on that and more blog posts and everything else on bellwetherhub.com. As always, I’ll talk to you soon.

Sometimes you meet a person and know they have a story that should be shared. And that’s what happened with me and Dan MacQueen.

I hesitated to put resiliency in the title because the word has been almost ruined due to the hyperbolic nature of our click-bait world. Organizations preach “resiliency,” but it’s more of a “barrel forward” rather than a “be strong and bounce back” type of resiliency. Dan has real resilience.

We THINK we work hard. We THINK we have problems. We THINK our challenges are insurmountable and frustrating. But sometimes, when we hear a story like Dan’s, we recognize that we have things pretty good.

Dan’s got gems. From his commentary on accountability to “post-traumatic growth;” from constructive optimism to screaming, “Can’t you see I’m learning here!?” – there is much to think about and translate to your world after hearing his story.

This is more than just a change in mindset. I’d say it’s a change in being. Hopefully, the lessons you can pull from this episode can make change without having to go through trauma like Dan’s.

More from Dan MacQueen

Web www.macqueendan.com

Instagram @macqueendan

Twitter  @macqueedan

LinkedIn Daniel MacQueen

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Click here for an unedited transcript of the podcast. I’m Jim Frawley, and this is Bellwether. Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for joining us this week. This week we have a guest and I like to bring on guests. And I think if you look at all the guests that I have, they’re always extremely valuable guests because I vet them out for you. I know that they have something valuable to give to you, and this week is certainly no different. As we get into the holiday seasons, as we get into all of the, the craziness of the world and everyone’s very stressed and, and we hear about all the things we’re supposed to be at work, we hear about all of the things like resiliency and all these buzzwords. 1:00

Um, they bother me because I don’t feel like they have the proper context and, um, they don’t really hit the mark in the way that they should. And so this week’s guest is going to teach us in a very real way what resiliency is. And I think it’s gonna be a fantastic level of perspective and a lot to learn. I’ve had a, a couple quick conversations with him. I’ve learned a lot already. 1:24

I’m very happy to have here today, Dan McQueen. Dan, welcome to the Bellwether Hub Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So I want, Dan’s got a story, which is unlike stories you’ve heard before. So Dan, I want you to cue everything up. We’re gonna start with the story, share your story so that we can then pepper you with questions afterward. But we need that context because it’s, uh, it’s pretty wild ride. 1:49

So I’m gonna turn it over to you. Please tell your story. Thanks Jim. So, hello everyone. My name’s Dan McQueen. Uh, until recently I was living in London, Jolly old. I moved back in September, but the story kind of takes place in 2014. I was having these headaches that got worse over a few weeks. I went to Annie twice. For those of you don’t know, Annie is accident emergency in the uk. 2:13

You know, thinking these headaches were kind of serious. I should get them checked out. And I was told, Oh, no, no, they seem like they’re vertigo. We’ve gotten some tests, they don’t seem that serious. We’ll send you home. They gave me some pills and they sent me home for that. But they told me on the way out if my headaches continued to get them checked at an optometrist, she’s like, Okay, sure, whatever. 2:34

So the headaches persisted. They were getting real bad and I decided, You know what, I’m gonna get my eyes checked at an optometrist. Midway through the exam, he stopped it, which is not a casual move. He gave me a sealed envelope, also not a casual move, and told me to go directly to Morfield Hospital, which I did. Sort of, I stopped at home first to grab a book, Jack Richard book, actually by Lee Child. 3:00

Uh, my phone charger, some food I want somebody to eat and some supplies. But I was determinated to the bottom of what was happening with us. So Morefield Hospital turned into tear. Cross turned into, I was having brain surgery the next day because I had a non-cancerous cyst in my brain that needed to be operated on. So zero to 60 in, in a matter of hours, I’m deciding that I’m having brain tomorrow. 3:28

You know, I, I call my manager, message your friends, like, Hey, I’m having this tomorrow. Guess I won’t be in Monday. Messaged my mom and she just retired. So she was able to come to London. So on June 21st, 2014, I was on the operating table. My mom was in the air flying to London, Something went wrong and had a massive bleeding. The brain of brain hemorrhage. I think the cyst burst when they operated. 3:53

So my mom lands and finds them in critical condition. I was in a coma for four weeks. What was in and outta consciousness for months after that, when all was said and done, I was learning how to walk, talk, and smile again. So, needless to say, this kind of rocked my world and rocked my family’s world. Um, I remember waking up in the hospital with my brother, mom and dad around me, and, and I go, I can’t talk. 4:20

Cause I had a breathing tube removed and I couldn’t talk. And I go, Gimme a pen and paper. I write down, I point at my brother, I go, You point down. And I write down the pen and paper. I go, Get me out of here to my brother because I didn’t think I had any insurance for this stuff. And I was thinking, you know, he’ll bust me outta here. Let’s get outta here. 4:43

So needless to say he didn’t, and thank goodness he didn’t. Cause I was in the hospital for months after that. But that’s how things all kicked off for me, Jim, which is, so I could take this in many different directions. Um, one is the perspective on, obviously you didn’t plan for this and obviously this kind of jacked up whatever plans you had eight years ago, and that’s one, right? We never know when something like this could potentially happen. 5:16

But two is the recovery, right? I mean, uh, a bleeding in the brain, learning to walk, learning to talk, learning to smile again, and being able to then build a business, get back with your family, build a life, do all of these things after. I wanna talk about both of those. Um, where do you want <laugh>, where do you wanna start? Talk to me first about the recovery, because if you’re sitting in the hospital for months, um, obviously this is a, so you’re in a coma for a month in and outta consciousness for months. 5:50

Recovery has to be intense. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I was, my leg frozen at an angle in the icu, the intensive carry unit. So my left leg was essentially jacked up and I couldn’t use it. I couldn’t go ahead and walk. I was in a wheelchair, right? So getting in from the bed to the wheelchair took 30 minutes, then 25, then 20 and 15, then then 10, then seven and six and eight, then 10, then five. 6:20

Everything was difficult. Everything was hard. Earned wins. And it took forever to end that bloody wheelchair. But you keep chipping away at this. And then I was transferable to the Wilson Rehab Center. I remember telling my dad when this happened, you know, I made a few thoughts in my head, like strategies to how I’m gonna recover. And the first one was speed. And that was one that I identified earlier is like, this is crucial. 6:41

I need to go fast if I’m gonna go far. I told my dad, you know, you have to apply for these rehab centers. I go, Hey dad, make this happen. Thinking like, I don’t know, he’s gonna like grease the wheels. I make something happen. Like, get me in this rehab center asap. Cause I want to get after this rehab as clearly as I can. Now, I don’t think you did, but I got into Wilson Rehab Center, which is great. 7:05

Uh, but when I first got to Wilson Rehab Center, I couldn’t walk right? I know to walk in. So they were doing this experimental, I dunno if it’s experimental, but they were doing this, this rehab where they inject your, your muscle with Botox, like the stuff you put in your lips and face for women, it kinda relaxes the muscle and allow to stretch it back to normal. So they use this needle. 7:26

It was probably about, well it’s probably about this big to be honest, but it felt like it was a sword going in the back of your leg. And then they would give you this, um, I word this splint every night. Splint was like a cast, and now it was horrifically painful and I never whinged about anything in the hospital, but the splint, I would be like, Oh, this, this fucking splint. Um, I hated the splint because it was so bloody painful. 7:48

And I always say it’s painful. And everyone goes, Okay, sure dad. I’m like, No, no, no. You have no idea how painful this was. I’ll share a story with you now. Jim kind of talks about how painful the splint was. So the first time I wore the splint all the way through night, no issue, no stress, this will be easy. I thought this will be easy. I’m looking forward to, this will be great. 8:07

I’m stretching in the day and the nighttime, and then rehab during the day. The second night after 20 minutes, it was painful. After 30, it was dreadful. After 40 was unbearable, we took the splint off. But we decided to do one hour a night with the splint, because I wanted to walk, I wanted to get back to walking. And how I get back to walking was stretching the leg. So the third night they wrapped splint up, They gimme the clicker. 8:32

We set the time on the phone for one hour. Now the, the ward of the Wilson’s in L shape, so small on this side, long on this side, okay? And after 10 minutes, it’s painful. After 20, it’s dreadful. After 30, it’s unbearable. And I’m thinking, we’re doing this for an hour. This is insanity. What was I thinking? An hour. This is ridiculous. I start passing the clicker back and forth to distract myself from the pain. 8:58

Now I have double vision, which means I can’t see anything. I’m feeling this and I miss one of my tosses and it crashes on the floor. Shit. I look over the edge of the bed, I see the clicker on the floor, the solution to my problems on the floor. The only problem is I’m splinted up. I can’t move. And the floor is about three and a half feet on the ground. Help help by yell. 9:22

Wilson Rehab Centers, this and L Shape, they’re on the far side of the ward. They can’t hear me. No one’s coming. We’re 30 minutes on the board, which means they’re gonna come back and maybe, well, maybe 30, but maybe 40, maybe 50. They might have gone to heating for all I know, Jim, they might have gone forever. I don’t know where they’re gone. The solution to my problem’s right there. The only problem is it’s three and a half feet on the ground on the Oleum. 9:42

If I drop down under the bed, I, I, I did some quick mass in my mind, not my strong suit. I’ll be honest with you, Jim and I decided that it’s about a 50 50 chance, me breaking my arm, a 50 50 shot. So, but if I break my arm at least can click the clicker, get the splint off, and then they can fix my arm. If I don’t go for the clicker, I’m stuck here waiting for them to come back and hoping kinda like a metaphor for this whole thing. 10:08

You can’t wait for someone to come save you. So I decide to risk it and grab the clicker. I crash down in the heap, I flip the coin and the arm holds. I hammer the clicker click, expect them to come burst into the room to come to my rescue. Nay, they kind of strolled in five minutes later. What are you doing on the floor, Dan? Well, let’s not worry about that right now. 10:29

Let’s get the leg off, bleed the split off my leg and get me sorted out there. But I learned some lessons from this. Uh, the first being don’t pass the clicker back and forth with double vision. That’s a bad idea. That’s a good lesson, That’s a great lesson. Uh, I really recommend that. The second being do the splint up at the hip, not at the ankle so I could undo it. Should this happen again? 10:50

Luckily it never did. But like things like that, that you’re always kind of learning and iterating on this, just as in life, like you, you realize like, I failed at this process. Let’s do it better next time, better than yesterday is one thing that I always try to exhume or like to try and portray and like demonstrate. And this was a prime example of let’s, you know, let’s not make the same mistake twice or at least not three times, maybe twice sometimes. 11:18

But that’s to show you how painful display was. I was willing to risk breaking my arm, flipping a coin for the arm 50 50, shot a break of my arm to get the splint off my leg because it was so painful. But it was, it was very much a grueling rehab process. Like I moved from the splint to walking on the Zimmer frame, which is a four post thing that you kind of lurch forward on. 11:40

And every step you take, Jim, it reminds you you’re alive. I’ll tell you that much. I had a grim on my face. There’s a great photo I’ve got. I can pass it to your team afterwards. I’ve got this, like this, this scowl on my face where I’m just walking and trotting on. I moved up to the Ferrari, which is, um, a four wheeled walker that you kind of walk fast on, you can kind of waddle quickly on this. 12:04

And I moved up to Naked Walks. Now Naked Walk was walking without support, raids, just notice like gamification here. Like I’m kind of having fun while I’m doing this. And I kind of progressed the walking space, right? Like it was quite a, quite a progression there. But that should give us something to chat about there. Jim, is there anything that catches your eye? Well, yeah, it’s, so one, people forget about how long an hour is right. 12:30

An hour takes forever when you’re in an excruciating pain. And you know, I get annoyed when I have to sit and watch the kid for 10 minutes and they’re yelling. But this is, you know, this is kind of a different element. But what’s what I take away from that is, um, what you said, you can’t wait for someone else to help you, right? When you calculate, you have to know what you have to do there. 12:51

There’s a little bit about knowing what it’s gonna take to get what you need, but there is an efficacy and accountability aspect in terms of, you know, I’m ultimately responsible for my comfort or helping myself in this moment. I’m ultimately responsible for this and this is my current situation. And, and now it’s up to me to do this. Um, talk to me about how you’re almost going for, you know, it goes beyond that. 13:16

It goes beyond falling outta the bed. It goes into now up to the Ferrari kinda walker, and it goes into the naked walks. Ultimately, this is you and you had to gamify and come with it in your mind. Talk to me about your mind process a little bit. Yeah. So it’s not your fault, but it’s your responsibility. It’s not your fault, but it’s your responsibility. So it’s like, well, the drop from the record was probably my fault to be honest, but either way it’s my responsibility to fix the solution. 13:44

Like, I gotta kind of resolve this. And the mindset was so key because your mindset’s everything, right? Like, I’ll share another story with you, Jim, that I think you’re kind of, you’re, you’re teaming me up for. Here is something I call constructive optimism. And this is learning to walk and tune Broadway. This kinda goes to showcase the mindset that I’ve adopted this process soon to walk in tune Broadway, from the naked walks to the Zimmer frame, to the, to the naked walks, to walk in tune Broadway. 14:11

Now tuning Broadway, for those of you that don’t know is in South London who they call up and coming, which means it’s on the verge of like sketchiness. What kind of like sexing up that like developers can call it up and coming, which means like, like 10 years time will be popping, but it’s been up and coming for 10 years. So you never know. But needless to say, it’s a bit of a difficult place to learn to walk again. 14:34

I’m walking with a cane, I’m walking with an eye patch. I’m a unit out there while I’m Bambi Ice, to be honest, I turn the corner on Broadway the first time and get bumped and by someone pretty hard, stagger back and okay, cut off by someone else or someone bleeding on the sidewalk beside me. I’m like, this is wild place to how to walk. People kept bumping into me, crashing past me. 14:55

This is the worst place to learn to walk in the world. Can’t you see? I’m trying to learn here. Can you see, I’m trying to walk here like, gimme a freaking slack, man. I was so frustrated and dejected by this because I’m trying real hard here and you guys aren’t giving me any slack. But I was like, and I was like, this was days that I was dejecting, like,Oh, I gotta walk Broadway. 15:15

This place sucks. This is the worst place I’m gonna walk in the world. And then one day my perspective shifted. This isn’t the worst place to learn how to walk in the world. This is the best place. Because if I can walk here, I can walk anywhere, bumping me, crash past me, bring it on, I look forward to my walks, I look forward to that contact because that’s teaching me in the best place to how to walk in the world. 15:37

Now, tune Broadway didn’t change, right? It’s still tune Broadway, but it went from the worst to the best in my head. And my mood reflected that I began looking forward to my walks bumping into me, crash fasting, bringing on this is all I want. That’s like an example of like how my mindset adapted to this process. Like if I’m, if I think about it differently, the outcome will be different. And I knew that, like, I think how I came up with this mindset shift was how am I gonna think through this problem? 16:09

I’m frustrated by walking into Broadway. How can I make it less crap in my mind, this is the worst place started to walk in the world. I’m like, well, why is the worst? Cause it’s the most difficult. People bump into you, crash past you. Like, well, couldn’t that also be the best? Because that way you’re stress testing isn’t the best place to walk in the world. I was like, well, maybe it is. 16:28

And then I started bringing out that mindset. And when I did that, my whole world changed. Like I, I began looking forward to those walks and, and when you look forward to what you’re doing, it makes all the bloody difference. And I think that’s through this whole process, I began shifting my perspective on like, well is this the worst or is this the best? And like, don’t get me wrong, I’m not in delusions of this is like a good experience, but it’s the experience you’re in right now. 16:54

And like I said, it’s not your fault, but it’s your responsibility. So like I have the responsibility of learning to walk in and I can choose it for it to be the worst, or I can choose for it be the best, but I choose that and I want to choose it the best because then I can adapt this and take it on board. Hope that answers your question, Jim. Well it does. 17:13

Yeah. And it’s, you know, it goes back to the responsibility, right? It’s not your fault that you’re learning to walk there, but it’s your responsibility to do it. And you, I would say your mindset is part of that responsibility. We often talk about responsibility and accountability in terms of getting things done, but the way that we approach getting things done is also our responsibility as well. And you said something nice in there and you know, nobody would cut you slack. 17:38

And I also love where you say, Hey, I’m learning here, right? So if you were to take this out of the context and put it in anybody else’s context in terms of learning a new role or learning something new, it’s a vulnerable moment. It’s a difficult moment and say, Hey, I’m learning here. Nobody’s gonna cut you slack regardless. But it’s still your responsibility to learn. It’s still your responsibility to change that kind of mindset. 17:59

Do you have any, I mean, that sounds good. We hear people about positive mindset all the time and you just have to change the way you think. Um, any tips on what, you know, what made it easier for you to do that? Right? I like to give people the tangibles. Is it, you know, knowing that it’s gonna get easier or knowing that this is the hardest and you’re gonna find cooler places to go? 18:21

Or how do you find the way to enjoy something that you absolutely didn’t look forward to? Well, thank you Jim. That’s a great question. I think like I’m, I wouldn’t say I’m an like an academic at all, but like I do think about things quite a lot and quite in my own mind. And I thought about this like as I mentioned, like this is the worst. Well, why is it the worst? 18:44

Break it down for me. Why is this the worst place? And I mention those reasons, like, well, people bump into you, they crash past you, it’s crowded, it’s dirty, it’s busy, it’s hectic. I’m like, well, if you’re learning to walk again, wouldn’t you wanna learn to walk in the, in that kind of environment? Because that’s stress testing you in this difficult situation. You wanna be fed, spoon fed this stuff, You wanna be stress testing this in the worst environment in the world. 19:06

So in fact, it’s not the worst, it’s the best. I really made a conscious effort of thinking through this process and I knew that like, look, there’s been a number of peaks and valleys in this process, Jim. And, and I knew that like my mindset was gonna be so key for all this, the way I thought about it is so huge. Like, there’s a great quote from epics that I use quite a lot a through line in my talk. 19:26

As a matter of fact, it’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it in the matters. It’s not what happens to you, but how you react with the matters. And with the brain hemorrhage, that’s like a, a big blow. It’s like, okay, but it’s not a death blow. And how can you react? How can you learn from this? How can you like stress test yourself to like pick the stuff on board? 19:48

Um, I guess to answer your question, like how would you reframe this? Like when you’re lying in the hospital bed for hour than end and you got lots of time to think and I just thought about how can I beat this? How can I gamify this and make it more fun to, to accomplish these goals and walk? And like you mentioned, the Ferrari, the naked walks, like, I’m having fun here. Um, which is a big part of this process. 20:09

Like how can I make this fun to do? And I kind of reveling, like, I think like my friend introduced me to this, this concept of posttraumatic growth. I don’t mean to jump ahead here, but I’ll mention this briefly. And that’s like, you know, this posttraumatic stress, which is like when you are, let’s say you’re in Afghanistan or something, like a night like a bomb goes off and you’re, you carry that with you for years and, and it haunts you for years. 20:38

Posttraumatic growth kind when something bad happens, but you kind of raise up to the challenge and beyond that, so like now every time something bad happens, I raise up to it. So for instance, this past summer I got let go from my job at Hootsuite, which I was at for nine years. I got nothing but love for sweet, don’t get me wrong, but losing your job is never a good vibe. Right now the stages of grieving are like five stages. 21:04

I’ve managed to kind of condense this down to like feeling shitty acceptance. Went for a booie lunch that afternoon. I went to the Apple store, I got a new computer cuz the next day I was hammering the speaking gig. What a great opportunity is for me to get my speaking career, going to speak organizations and companies about my perspective and mindset, how you can use this to be better than yesterday. I gave myself a lunch to feel bad and down. 21:31

And then I was like, you know what? We’re getting afters tomorrow. We’re getting s today. Like I went to the Apple store that day and the stages agreed have been kind of been condensed to like feeling bad and acceptance is at the bottom. And I kind just fast forward to acceptance because you can wish something didn’t happen, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t move you forward. You can wish all you want, but wishings not gonna do anything. 21:53

Wishing the brain hemorrhage didn’t happen is not gonna do anything. Wishing the setback didn’t happen is not gonna do anything. Wishing the job loss isn’t gonna happen, isn’t gonna do anything. I could be wishing this for like a year and then at end of that year I’ll still be well at square one when I could have been taking steps to progress myself if you accept it and move forward, like everything’s, everything’s on me. 22:12

Everything’s my fault, or at least my responsibilities. I mentioned like, it’s not, my father lost my job, but it’s my responsibility to do something about it now and now I get to pursue my speaking career that afternoon. So it’s like the mindset’s so key for this because if you believe it in yourself and you believe it in your soul, like your body will follow. And I’m not saying this as like lip service of like, you should do this and you should have this positive mindset of great vibes. 22:42

Like no, it’s not, it’s not woo-hoo on you. It’s like this is how I live my life. This is how I progressed and navigated these situations. And they weren’t easy, but it was simple to kind of navigate it because once you made that mind up, it’s like, oh no, I’m not going right here. I’m going right around the corner. It’s right around the bend. You kinda understand the road, you can kind of see the map and showcase where you want to go. 23:08

That’s a rant and a half there, Jim. But I hope that gives you some context what I’m thinking about. No, it does and I love posttraumatic growth. It’s, um, and it almost goes hand in hand where it’s for anything, right? Whether it’s a new venture, whether it’s a job you hate, whether it’s going to a networking event, it’s how do I make this fun? How can I actually enjoy myself today? Because we’ve got to judge a mindset going into these things of misery and difficulty. 23:31

And, but logically it’s, you know, you are an individual that was before, now you are an individual that had a brain hemorrhage, so it doesn’t change anything. Um, but I almost feel like, you know, post-traumatic growth is almost like tolerance. The more you meet it, the more you’re able to handle and the more you do it, the more you’re able to, It’s part of growing and learning after it. Would you agree with something like that? 23:57

A hundred percent. And also it’s important to know the hardest thing you’ve ever been through is the hardest thing you’ve ever been through. So when I do my talk and it’s like, well, I’m not gonna have a brain hemorrhage, so like I don’t need to know your talk because that’s not it. It’s like, well sure, like a job loss and a brain hemorrhage is not the same thing, but the mindset you use to adapt to a brain hemorrhage can be used on someone who loses a job or loses a loved one or gets a diagnosis. 24:21

The adversity and resilience you need to fostering yourself to navigate this is the same, same steps. Like to understand what it is and to get that acceptance piece. Because the faster you can get to acceptance, the faster you can progress. Acceptance doesn’t mean it’s fair, doesn’t mean it’s even, doesn’t mean it is justified, but it means it is what it is. Don’t worry about what you can’t control. Control the controllables. It’s something that I always say. 24:45

And if you worry about stuff you can’t control, you’re not gonna get anywhere. You can just spin your tires forever and ever and ever. I just punt that if I can’t control it, I punt it. I give zero zero f’s about it. Like, I’m not worried about stuff I can’t control. Can I influence it? Yes. No. If no, zero zero f’s with that, if yes, then I worry about this and I and I take on more would I can do, um, I’ve lost track of your question now, Jim would hopefully that offers some perspective. 25:11

No, it does. Yeah. And it’s, you know, as, as we think about the responsibility you have, we’ve talked before this about, you know, feeling sorry for yourself, right? And I feel like that’s a step in between of situation happens. And then you’ve got the acceptance in between. There’s the feeling. Sorry. Do you eliminate that or how do you overcome that? I mean, it’s, it’s one thing to say, Oh, we’ll just have fun so I won’t feel sorry for myself, but people deal with, you know, traumatic events, which shouldn’t be skipped over. 25:41

I mean, what happened to you was a traumatic event and yet you’re not feeling sorry for yourself, right? You’re, you’re flipping this into an opportunity, so how do you, and that, that’s difficult. I guess everybody does it differently, but talk about feeling sorry for yourself I think would be something very relevant and you’d almost get the agency to do that where people would say, Yeah, I get it. Talk to me about, you know, feeling sorry for yourself. 26:03

Do you ever, and and how do you change that mindset? Well, I’ll give you like the example of the lowest I’ve ever been in my life, Jim, which is, so the setback happened, I got back to walk and got back to work, um, for two months and then I had a second setback that happened. I was found unconscious in my flap by my mom. The sh that’s in my brain had blocked leading to hydrocephalus or water on the brain. 26:30

It resulted in an ambulance ride, another bad haircut and a new medical alert bracelet. So I had traumatic brain surgery because the shunt blocked. And I woke up in the hospital for the second time here in the beeping of the, the, the heart rate monitors. Not the respirator this time, but the heart rate monitors is what, what happened? What happened? Like, well, Dan, you had a second setback, you need emergency brain surgeon. 26:53

Like what do you mean? He’s like, Well, you’re back in the hospital. This happened two days ago. You’re working on getting back to normal. Like, so this happened again. Yeah, it’s very rare. It happens less than 10% of case. And like, okay, and na was I low like all my progress, I just got back to work. And you’re telling me that’s ripped away from you. Like,like overnight I was, oh, talk about a pity party, man. 27:22

I was woes me for a couple days, couple of days of straw. Like, well this isn’t fair, this isn’t fair at all. Like, it’s not fair. You’re right. And where’s that thinking gonna get you? Like I could be woes me poopy pants the whole time or I could just, you know what, I know how to build back better. I know how to do this. I’ve done this once before, this time I can walk so I’m not in the same position I would before I can get back to work and progressively build back towards whatever I’m doing. 27:51

I already been through rehab, so I wasn’t entitled to go through rehab again, which is a big knock. I use all my own at home through like phone conferences or like in person meets at my home flat. Like that was tremendously low. And I gave myself a few days to feel bad and low, but I knew that at the end of the day, like I said, it’s not my fault, but it’s my responsibility. 28:13

No one, no one’s coming to save you. Like if you want to get outta this hole, you’re gonna have to chop wood carry water is what I say, which means like, get to work, like progressively get to work, chop wood, carry water, put the work in and get your perspective right to like build back up. Like it’s not, And that was like, that was pretty low, Jim, I’m not gonna lie to you. 28:36

That was like, everyone’s against me. Why is this, why is this happened to me? This isn’t fair. And that’s wrong, it’s not fair, but at the end of the day, it’s not gonna get you anywhere. I can say it’s not fair to the home. Right. Bless you. Doesn’t change anything. How about this, talk to me about, I didn’t know you before this, obviously. Yeah. Um, how has this entire experience, cha, I mean, we know it changed you, okay, Yes, obviously, but how does it change your belief system? 29:12

Has it solidified one in, in your mind? Do you feel like you have a new perspective on responsibility? I’m sure you do, but you know, would you say that you’re capable almost of more now than you were before based on mindset? Talk to me a little bit about your belief system and, and what’s changed over the last eight years now? Thanks Jim. That’s a good question. I think before this happened, I was really happy to go lucky guy. 29:38

I still am, but everything came easy to me, or at least I made it seem like it did. I kind of figured out a way to work things like with, with life, with work with girls. Like everything just kind of came easy to me. And then this brain hammer happenss and everything’s stripped away and nothing’s easy. You know, getting into a wheelchair takes 30 minutes and 25, then 20, then 15. Like, it’s like every ounce of me is going into this. 30:06

And like, I really made effort not to show that I was trying before this happened. And after it happened, I want show that I’m trying because I am trying, I’m trying my damage to make this happen. My perspective’s changed dramatically, Jim, it’s like everything on me now. I, I’ve read this book, um, Extreme Ownership by Jaco Will, I’m not sure if you’ve read that one. Essentially it goes everything on me. Everything’s my responsibility. 30:30

Everything’s my fault. Everything’s in my power to control and improve. And I’m kind of a self-help junkie. I, I love improving myself and, and finding little hacks to make things better and easier. So I’ve got a great morning routine. So I’ll, I’ll wake up early, go for exercise workout, go for a meditation, go for cold shower, like have these habits that I put in place to kind of make myself be better than yesterday. 31:00

So my perspective’s changed tremendously, Jim, and it’s been because of this experience, because I’ve had to navigate this, I’ve had to navigate this. If I didn’t, I would wouldn’t be here. I believe that I’m, I am where I am today because of the habits I put in place and I am where I am today because of the mindset I put in place to allow me those habits. Talk to me about your hacks. 31:21

Um, you talked a little bit about constructive optimism I think is probably a hack. You’ve got your morning routine and the habits, which is setting yourself up for success. Do you have any favorite hacks that you could share with people that you’d wanna, you know, is one of those your best or, or what would you wanna, what would you wanna share on that? I got one that I’ll share with you, Jim, and one that I mentioned earlier, I think, uh, is called ice icebreakers, icebreakers. 31:48

So when you’re walking with double vision and you’re like, fatigue is a big thing with me and I’m seeing two, like I see two of you right now, right? So my brain’s processing two and the mind the wheels are spinning. It’s a lot of bandwidth and energy to like do this. Any chance I can say bandwidth, I do that because it allows me to be better for longer. I say that like I’m walking around at 75% battery and I wake up every minute. 32:14

I wake up is like 74, 73, 72. When I get below 50, I’m a less pleasant. Below 30, I’m a bit of a prick. I need to meditate to recharge and refresh that. But icebreaker is one thing that I use to like walking in a busy city. So you’re from New York. I used to live in London. So the circuses in London are just out of bloody circus. Piccadilly Circus, Oxford Circus, Chaos. It’s madness. 32:41

I founded this hack called an icebreaker. So what you wanna do is find the fellow pedestrian walk in your direction and walk behind them in their slip stream. And they’re wake in their, in their ice break wake. If you would let them face the oncoming traffic and you walk behind them and that saves bandwidth because you’re not dealing with the frontal abrasive walking through, you’re getting the wake of their walking like an icebreaker would. 33:03

So like you just followed behind the icebreaker and this seems like a stupid hack and it is stupid, but like, it, it saves little bits of bandwidth and allows me to be better for longer. Because if I don’t do this, if I’m the guy breaking the ice, it just drains your battery more. And that battery’s so important to me now that I wanna protect it at all costs. And it’s a fun way of me to identify these when I’m walking through the surfaces in London, like a, um, a stroller or a pram, a great icebreaker because it takes a lot of space, like a couple walking root iceberg. 33:36

Think about space, you walk behind them and let them take the frontal impact. I’ve also got another one, Jim, that I’ll share with you is, um, timer on the phone. So, or alarm on the phone. Let’s say if you remember something you wanted to do, you set the alarm on your phone, let’s say, I don’t know, it’s 10 30 my time in Vancouver. So I set it for like three o’clock and writing on my phone saying, emailed Jim speaking assets. 34:01

That’s alarm three 30. And then I, when the alarm goes off at three 30, I check my phone to know that, oh, I gotta email Jim the speaking assets and I would’ve forgotten that otherwise, or timer on my phone if I’m, you know, scrolling Instagram or, or uh, YouTube at nighttime before bed. I’ll send my time for 10 minutes for 15 minutes when the timer goes off time to bed. Like I use the phone to help me be better and to remind me to keep on track. 34:31

So it’s a way that I’ve kind of hacked my life because I need those hacks now because things aren’t as easy as they used to be for me. A lot of work to keep this on the, on the tracks, right? And if I don’t do those things, things slip and I don’t wanna be slip. I’m trying to, trying to keep myself looking a certain way, presented a certain way, being a certain way. 34:52

Yeah, and it sounds, I mean if you were to take that metaphorically, it’s almost your icebreaker could be your social network, your, um, use of technology in a way to keep you focused rather than distract your focus. Um, and it’s just being intentional with all of the actions because right, we, everyone’s got a drain battery. Um, and it’s important to keep that focus and, and, and keep it at its max. What’s, um, so you said before speaking assets. 35:19

Talk to me a little bit about what’s next for you, How anything anyone could do to support you. I know you’re, you’re big on the speaking circuit now. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, thanks Jim. Uh, I’m going into speaking full bo like I’m, I’m trying to make a difference and share my perspective and change your team’s perspective. Like I’ve got like a whole treasure tro full of assets and hacks and mindsets and perspective that I can impart on your team to help ’em shift their perspective and, and shift how they view things. 35:52

I’ve identified a few problems that I can really help address regards to retention, helping your team understand, you know, what they’ve got, their perspective where they’re at and help save you retention. Also culture. Uh, I really think I can impart someone into culture and understand what they’ve got and just how do they view things differently. That perspective of like the worst to the best help you impart that. In the last one, I think it really pairs the sales training. 36:18

Uh, we’ve spent a lot of money on sales training these days. See these big booms after the sales training, but after, after a few months, it reverts back to medium and it dips down. What’s missing is the perspective and the mindset. You wire the house properly. Let me show you how to turn on the switch. If I can give your team the tools, the assets, the perspective needed to be better than yesterday, maybe that stays higher, longer, above the median. 36:42

But my passion speaking, Jim and I really wanna share the lessons learned because it would be a shame to leave these lessons learned on the sidelines of life. I paid for these in blood, sweat, and tears and I’ve fallen down seven times to get up eight and I’m busting my ass to make this happen. And I’ve, I’ve paid for these price, I’ve paid steep price for these and I paid them by touching the stove Nova Hot. 37:05

And sometimes I forget that it’s hot and I touched it. Again. Let me tell your team that, uh, I want to, you know, I’m really driven to do this because I wanna make a difference and I wanna make, impart the lessons I’ve learned with your team. I think that’s something I’d love for your audience, you know, feel, please feel free to reach out to me as a speaker. I’ve done a lot of online and in person speaking opportunities. 37:32

Uh, as I mentioned, the job loss this summer was a knock but not a death blow and a good opportunity for me to get the speaking going on, on as a full-time gig now. So that’s the best way I can imagine Reju and that’s, you know, best done over LinkedIn or websites can be uphold the next week. And that’s queen dan.com. Perfect. Very good. So McQueen dan.com, find ’em on LinkedIn. We, we usually wrap these up, Dan, with book recommendations. 38:02

Uh, I got two for you man, and I got two questions for you afterwards, if you don’t mind. Of course, you can ask away. I know you told me that before we started recording and I’m very nervous about what your questions are going to be. So I had two books for you. One fiction, one non-fiction. The first is a nonfiction. You heard of this one No Spark. So it’s like a Myers Briggs test, but it’s like a more modified version. 38:25

Help you identify what lights you up in work. So for instance, my work sparko type is the sage or the advisors, the my type and the sage is my shadow. And the essentialist is my anti type, which means like I get drained by doing like admins, but I get, I get really fired up by offering advice or, or listening and offering some perspective on both elements of that. So that’s my nonfiction, which is good that you’re getting into speaking now, by the way. 38:55

Very good. Exactly. Yep, exactly. It’s a good fit, right? Yep. And my fiction is actually a book my dad wrote. Oh, nice. Called Hero Haters. This came out recently. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a thrill book based on, um, a gripping tale of uh, an author who gets, you know, part of the hero medals. They start disappearing. There’s a big mystery around, this is his first book. He was a journalist for his whole career and his first publish book. 39:27

He is getting a lot of good reviews on this. You can buy this on Amazon or Good Reads or Indigo in Canada, but it’s called Hero Haters. And I really recommend this. I haven’t finished it myself. I’m working my way through it, but it’s a great book. I will read it. That’s perfect. Uh, Jim, can I ask you a few questions? Do it. You ready for this? You’ve been ready. Um, so question one, if you could go back in time, you go back in time and ask your younger self or tell your younger self some hacks or truths about podcasting before you started this, what would they be? 40:07

From what you know now, um, truths about podcasting you’ve learned about podcasting With what I’ve learned about one, number one is just get started because nobody’s gonna listen to it at the beginning. So you can always make your practice ones that if you don’t like it, you can delete it. But as long as you take the effort to put it in and you get the practice down, eventually you’ll put it out. 40:33

That’s one too. When you do put it out and people do listen to it, nobody’s gonna give you the negative feedback you thought you were gonna get. Right. And people are incredibly supportive and that’s great. Um, and so I guess if I were to wrap that up is do it. Take that risk and don’t worry what other people are doing because it’s not a race. Build your own. That would be my advice. 40:57

That’s a good question. See a pretty easy question. Pretty easy question. Second one. Yeah. Um, you’ve spoken to a wide variety of guests around a wide variety of subject matters. What are some lessons you’ve learned yourself from these interviews that you like hold dear to your heart and you kind of take on board with your, in your everyday life? Um, everyone on the planet has something interesting to share and it’s, um,you know, if you look at my guests, the majority of my guests, uh, are normal people in extraordinary circumstances or with really good just things that we don’t really focus on, right? 41:45

All the way back to my first episode on, uh, a guy who does lean, he’s a good friend of mine in a bank, how he implemented lean processes into his house to keep the family organized. I thought it was super awesome. Um, friends who are public speaking coaches giving their advice, people like you who have had incredible things happen to them and how they’re resilient in a real resiliency way and have come back and could share their wisdom. 42:09

Um, everybody on the planet has something excellent to share would be my my one thing to say to that. Um, and that’s probably what I take away from all my guests. Jim, that’s fantastic. I hope I answered them okay. No, those was a very good question. Thank you. Very good answers. Thank you. I think they’re really good to know because you’ve had the experience of speaking with so many people. I was really curious to see what Latin with you and what was a big takeaway. 42:34

That’s good to know. Everyone’s got something interested to say. I like their laugh. They do. Yeah. It’s, you know, they just don’t know to say it. Um, or they don’t necessarily have the opportunity. But Dan, you had the opportunity today and I appreciate it. This is, um, this is, you know, it’s an incredible story and it’s an amazing lesson. And as things go so quickly, if anything it’ll make someone hear this reevaluate what’s important, reevaluate their own particular situation, get some good perspective on, you know, the difficulties that, that we could be facing and everything else. 43:10

If I made Jim, Yeah, life happens for you, not to you. Mm-hmm.. And I believe that with all my heart. Like, I get up every day and I’m like, I get to do this. And you know, stuff can happen to you that kind of sets you back and it’s like, you know what, You get to do this, you get to navigate through this difficult time. And now I feel not invincible cause that’s the wrong word, but like, what are you gonna come at me with, man? 43:38

Like, what, what is the world gonna throw me that’s gonna be so shocking and, and perplexing for me not to navigate? It’s like, well, I’m losing my job this summer. Like, well that was a, that was a blow for sure. That’s a heart blow. But like, compared to what I’ve been through, that’s like a very minor blip on my radar. And like when you start addressing this difficult stuff, you start dealing able to realize that you can navigate this in a better way. 44:02

One hack, one more hack I wanna share with your team here. Jim, is cold showering? Yes. Sounds off putting. Sounds gross. I know I was a bit of an apprehensive guy myself back in the day. Now I shower and I had cold every day for two to three minutes and I had hyperventilate and I forced myself to go into a stressful state. And I get outta that shower and you’re still warm from the shower, but you get little, little sleeve of cold on and you just feel invigorated and, and take on the day. 44:34

But you’re making yourself go into that hardship every day on purpose. That one you face in real life. You can navigate this in a much more pragmatic and thoughtful way. I’m telling you this, try the cold shower, Jim, have you tried this cold shower before? I I do a cold shower every morning. Absolutely. You start I started it during the pandemic, I start warm and then at the end I turn it to cold.

There are lots of things to think about when picking an executive coach. Here are the things you should be looking for.

Does anyone remember the time where we didn’t know something and you had to be OK with it? 

Seems like ages ago, or maybe I’m feeling my age. But thanks to the advent and growth of technology, it’s easier than ever to obtain facts. The issue I have with this, is that we may be sacrificing wisdom for convenience. 

The more we know, ironically, drives anxiety. It lessens curiosity. It quashes our desire to learn. Quite frankly, it makes life boring. If we have all the facts available to us, what’s the point in asking questions? 

It’s one thing to know a fact. But you can get facts anywhere. What’s more important, I would argue, is how to think. Reasoning, logic, deduction, interpretation – these are the skill sets that will help us move past just repetition and boredom. 

It’s a focus that will translate well to the workplace. What I come across often in the coaching world is that most people have insecurity and anxiety, and many of them try to cover it by giving advice or spouting facts. But the fact of the matter is, those who embrace their insecurity, ask really good questions and learn to focus on their ability to continue to learn are the best leaders in an organization. 

Solutions will vary – but I’d say a good start is to begin by asking yourself questions, and going deeper beyond just the basic answer. Figuring out a belief system, why you believe things and understanding why others can believe the opposite, is a fun and productive philosophical exercise that will translate over into other areas of your life. 

It’s too strong to say facts are worthless, but without context and understanding, they don’t have multiple legs to stand on. It’s our understanding and interpretation that give facts meaning, and we only understand and interpret through questions. 

Happy week!

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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here this week. As always, I appreciate your attention and your time, and your listening, and your follows and all of that good stuff. Today we’re talking about the joy of not knowing. That’s right. The joy of not knowing. We don’t need to know all the answers to all of our questions. I was wistfully thinking the other day about how nice it was back in my, my fellow Gen X listeners. 0:28

I’m, I’m at the tail end of Gen X, but I identify with Gen X. I like my Gen X people. Gen X will remember this. Do you remember a time back where you just didn’t know the answer to something and you had to be okay with it? It was almost this freeing kind of <laugh>. It was, it was so nice to just not know. And we’re, we’re living now in a place where we’re inundated with information. 0:51

We’re inundated with facts. Everybody’s got a fact. Everybody wants to tell you what they know, and they can find the study or statistic that shows it. But without context, the facts are irrelevant. And I’d argue that we’re, we’re sacrificing wisdom and intelligence for the, the idea of just knowing facts that anybody can find when they Google something. And I would argue that the need for reasoning, logic, understanding context, being able to think is far more important as we move forward in the society than it is to just no facts. 1:31

Cause anybody can get facts anywhere. And that’s what I’m gonna talk about today. I’m gonna talk about how knowing everything like we do today, having information on our fingertips is actually driving more anxiety. Anxiety, um, it lessens our curiosity, it impacts our ability to be leaders. I’ll talk about workplace impact and then maybe at the end of this, if I remember, and if I have time, um, and I’m so inclined, I’ll give you some, some tidbits maybe that can help us get thinking about, um, how to think, thinking about how to think rather than, uh, just knowing facts. 2:02

So, um, like I said, I think my gen gen Xers will appreciate this and older, there was that time where, you know, you’d think of something and, and you would just never know it. And the only, you had to take a trip to the library, go through the Dewey decimal system to find some kind of book or an atlas or an encyclopedia to find it out. You actually had to do research. 2:22

And most of the time you’re like, I just don’t care enough to do that. And so it just went away. And that was nice. It was nice. You could focus on more things, more pertinent things, more impressive things, more relationship things. And you just, you didn’t know when your friends were gonna show up. You didn’t know when, uh, you know, your parents were gonna pick you up from the movie theater or anything else. 2:43

You could talk about it in general, uh, in in general context. But we, you know, there was a mystery to it. And there, there was a lot of fun to that. Um, now granted, having information on our fingertips has its benefits. I will say that. But, um, I, I would say we, we have this fake knowledge now of knowing facts. And you could find any fact online. Any fact that you wanna find, you could find it. 3:07

And there’s true facts, and there’s fake facts, and there’s half true facts. And there are, there are facts that are only facts when included with the proper context and <laugh>. So, so facts. The idea of a fact is, is almost subjective at this point. And so knowing facts, and, and you see this a lot in the coaching industry, um, people who try to present themselves as experts, everybody wants to be an expert. 3:35

Okay? We get this. Everybody wants to be an expert. Everybody wants to be wanted, everybody wants to be intelligent and seen as such. And that’s great. So they spit out knowledge to almost present themselves in this way that they are intelligent. But without context and understanding the context or making it real for people to know how to implement these facts, it’s almost irrelevant. The facts are pointless because it doesn’t change behavior or doesn’t drive home the message you’re trying to drive home. 4:03

It just, you know, it’s this false supporting of some BS statement so that we can present ourselves as experts in some particular type of way. And especially on, you know, you see this on TikTok all the time. I love the psychologists who come out and the psychiatrists and the neuroscientists who say, that’s not what that means, right? To, to correct all these people. Or just say, the hippocampus does this and you, that means you’re gonna do this. 4:27

And, um, it’s such a misinterpretation of, of knowledge, um, to the point where it’s damaging and it, it makes people change behavior in a very negative way. And, and you look ridiculous. I want you to know, you look ridiculous. <laugh>. Um, there is, ironically, I think the more knowledge we have, the more anxiety we have. Um, ignorance is bliss. I do believe that to a certain extent, there is, uh, a certain bliss of ignorance. 4:57

It’s why when people turn off social media, it’s a cathartic experience. It’s why when people turn off the news, it’s cathartic. Not knowing what’s going on and not being a hermit. I’m not talking about being a hermit, but there’s, there’s a scale of knowledge and information. We’re being inundated with constant ads and information and facts on, on why you need this medication that you didn’t even know you needed. And, uh, let me come in with this article and why you’re doing things wrong. 5:25

You’re shoveling your driveway wrong, and you’re like, what the hell are you talking about? This is ridiculous. So, so the more facts were given, uh, I would say it is impacting us in a very negative way. Um, even right on down to the weather. Do we need to know that the storm’s coming in a week when you’re know, start, say, ruins your week, right? Well, it’s gonna, you know, nice day. Yeah, but it’s gonna rain this weekend, right? 5:48

We can’t enjoy the moment we’re in because we have so much knowledge as to what’s coming down the pike, that, that we actually can’t be present and we can’t enjoy the people that are around us. And it drives this, this type of anxiety. And at the same time, it lessens our curiosity. And we need a sense, you know, I’ve said this before, multiple times. The reason kids are happy is because they’re learning. 6:11

They have this sense of wonder. There are things that are new to them. When we have all these facts, we lose that sense of wonder. We have to have the facts, we have to have the answers. We have to do all this stuff. It drives more anxiety, and we care less. We’re less curious. The last time you got really lost in something, it’s probably because you were curious about it and learning, and you wanted to know a new answer. 6:32

And that’s why we read things, and that’s why we get into things. And that’s why we, you know, I, I speak to so many Gen Z people and say, well, what are you reading right now? They’re like, oh, I, I don’t read books. I don’t read books. Because they have all the facts that they need at their fingertips and what they’re sacrificing. And this isn’t a Gen Z, this isn’t everybody challenge, okay? 6:52

I’m not, I’m not bashing Gen Z. Um, they don’t have to read, right? Because they have all their information. There is a benefit to learning and reading and being curious, and that’s your developing the capacity to think. And that’s what’s so important. We have to develop a capacity for reason. We have to develop a capacity for logic. We can’t just repeat facts. You see this very much in politics, right? Let me tell you why this is so important and why you’re wrong. 7:19

Facts are all about giving somebody, uh, i I bucket facts into this category of just giving advice and for coaches to be good. Again, I’m going back to my coaching. We never give advice. Good coaches never give advice, because advice is just an exercise of feeling superior to somebody else. Telling facts is just this false sense of superiority that we wish to have. And it’s trying to mask our own insecurities and our ability to ask questions. 7:46

We don’t want to be known as someone who doesn’t know, but yet, ironically, the most secure people we know and the most effective leaders we know are those very people who could say, I don’t know the answer to that. Tell me more. Ask me. You know, can I ask more questions? This is really good. Let’s get curious. Let’s dig more. Let’s learn about the logic, the reasoning, the interpretation of this. What can we deduce from all of these facts that we find? 8:10

And how do we make that relevant today? The ability to do, you know, do that cognitive exercise, to do that thinking. That’s what we need to really embrace and drive and, and really look for. And we can only do that when we don’t know. We only have that, that desire to do that. When we don’t know the facts, we don’t know the answers. We don’t stop at just knowing this ridiculous fact here. 8:36

And we say, all right, well, we did our job. We just told everyone how smart we were, and then we can move on. We need to deduce and make things real. Things evolve over time. Facts change over time. Facts change with context, right? You can make the same statement in two separate places. One time it’s true, another time it’s not. And depending on interpretation, that’s one of those big muscles that we really have to learn and drive. 9:01

And, and if we wanna bring this to the workplace, uh, that’s gonna separate the, the adults from the children, your ability to deduce. That’s how you bring value, right? I, I’ve gone through this exercise at a few places, um, depending on the size of your company, right? But I was working at a company or working with a company, had about a thousand employees. I said, if you wanted to get rid of everyone, 200 employees, what would they be doing? 9:30

And they know that they could survive with, you know, one fifth of their employees. They’d be thinking very differently. They’d be doing very different type of work, much more cognitive. And they know those 200 people, they would keep those people who could think, right? That’s gonna be, we’re, we’re not moving to a knowledge economy, right? Or maybe that’s what we’ve got. We’ve got a knowledge economy. A knowledge economy is irrelevant, right? 9:52

We need a thinking economy that’s very, very different, right? You have all the information you could want at your finger fingertips, but what makes you uniquely human is the ability to deduce and think and interpret, right? AI is gonna blow you outta the water of just pulling facts. It’s got mountains amount of facts and can make decisions and do all of these things very quickly based on fact and trends and everything else. 10:17

But to be uniquely humanist, to think and to be cognitive. And that comes from not knowing. That’s where we need to focus. That’s learning mindset, that’s asking really good questions. When we think about our best leaders and the most productive individuals, the people who are creating new things, the people who are bringing value to work, the people who are, uh, creating new processes. And those are the thinkers. They’re not just repeating the way we’ve always done things. 10:45

They’re not repeating, well, this is how it works. This is fact. They can interpret deduce question, ask really good questions, and be really, really curious. If you’ve worked with me. You know, I always talk about the, the question, does anybody know what a real question is? And most people don’t know what a real question is. A question is a request for information where you legitimately do not know the answer, and you want the answer. 11:11

Very, very important to make that distinction of, I’m really curious. Otherwise, it’s just a judgemental statement. And when we’re trying to mask anxiety, when we’re trying to spit facts, when we’re trying to just tell people why they’re wrong, why we’re trying to tell people, uh, advice and say, this is what you should do, and I think you should do that, and this is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s our own insecurity. 11:32

It’s, it’s trying to feel superior over other people. Everybody sat in a meeting where somebody asks someone for feedback, they’re very quick to say, well, we can’t do it because of X and we can’t do it because of y. Right? That’s their own insecurity. They never go first to Well, it’s possible, but right? They, they’re never open to that. That’s a stressor. They’re insecure. It’s the first thing that you notice about ineffective leadership is they always tell you why something can’t be done. 12:00

And so not knowing, um, is a blessing. It’s a blessing. I don’t fully appreciate, I I didn’t really fully appreciate the blessing until recently. And the more I’ve been talking about it with people, you know, I don’t watch television. Well, I do a little bit, but not, you know, in, in the other way. Um, it’s nice to not know what’s going on in general. You know, as a matter, I’m still engaged in my community. 12:24

I’ve got my people, I’ve got my clients, I’ve got my family. I, you know, I’m not a hermit, but I don’t need to know everything. Although I do love spitting facts. I do love the random facts. Everybody does. But the reason we love the random facts is because we’ve learned something, right? We say, oh, that’s shocking that I wouldn’t have thought of that. And oh, that’s very interesting. It’s a curiosity thing. 12:46

And we, we tap into our learning and that’s why, why we like to do it. So, um, a few episodes go, I would encourage you to do the believability episode. Listen to the believability episode. If you haven’t done it, that one resonated with a lot of people, because that’s a differentiator in the workplace as well. And that comes from not knowing believability. There’s an authenticity to believability. In order to be believable, you have to build this capacity to be believable. 13:12

It’s not just enough to be authentic, it’s not just enough to know things and how things work. We have to be believable. And we become believable by, by connecting with other people and asking really, really good questions. And then that gives us some credibility. It brings authenticity to say, oh, I don’t know everything, but I can deduce and bring more value to the fact that you actually know that’s real value. And that’s something that we should focus on. 13:37

So what are the solutions? How do we do this? How do we become a person who knows, but doesn’t know a person who is valuable, not knowing everything, but can ask really, really good questions. And that’s, you know, it’s odd. We, we wanna be curious. We wanna know facts are fun, right? I love spitting facts. I love it. Um, I should have prepared some random facts, right? But I’m not, uh, <laugh>, I didn’t do that for this episode, so I’m sorry. 14:02

But the first one, the way to start is, you know, we have to learn to become philosophical. That’s the first. And we have to, to work on our questions. And so I had asked, you know, what’s the most interesting question you could come up with? And I’m not talking about, you know, does a straw have one or two holes? Um, although those are fun little conversations to have with your people. But what are really, really good questions you could ask yourself about anything that’s going on in your world where you legitimately don’t know the answer and you want to know the answer. 14:33

And if there’s nothing that you want to know the answer to, we have a lot of thinking to do, right? Asking why, why do we do the things we do? That’s part of self discovery, it’s part of personal development, it’s part of everything. And that’s ultimately the meaning of life. The aim of life is self development. Uh, who said that the aim of life is self development. Dorian Gray, Oscar Wild said that Oscar Wild said, I think he did. 14:59

The aim of life is self development. Um, but, but how do we exercise reasoning and logic, our belief system, pure curiosity, just for the purpose of being curious. That is how we become a, a, a proponent of not knowing, not to just get to the end answer. Cuz there are no end answers, right? But how do we continue to exercise this muscle of being curious and asking questions? That’s, we don’t want to be the one who just knows all the answers. 15:28

That’s boring. It’s so boring. Life gets so incredibly boring when you have all the answers. So let’s go find something to be curious about. That’s my advice for the weekend. <laugh> my advice, I always give advice, um, which is the opposite of what you actually want to do. But that’s my thing when I go for a run, it’s always asking questions. My reasoning, my deducing, why do I think this? Well, if I think this, well what does that mean for this? 15:55

And if I think that, well, what does that mean for this? And what do I believe in all of these questions? It’s, it’s a very heavy exercise. It’s a very difficult one. Uh, but it’s a, it’s an awesome one. It makes life so, so interesting to not know. So let’s get a little exciting. Let’s get a little crazy. Let’s not know something this week and get a little curious. That’s just tons of fun. 16:15

So have a good week. I hope it was helpful. It’s my wistful kind of going back to the, um, I mean, I guess it was late eighties when I was just kind of running around with people and, um, just not knowing anything. Like mid, mid eighties, late eighties, just run around, doesn’t matter. Don’t know anything. Um, but you had a lot of fun and part of it was a maturity cause you’re a kid, right? 16:39

Um, but also it’s, there’s, there’s some credibility to it. So have a great week. Enjoy. Thank you for paying attention. Thank you for your time. And uh, with that, I’ll see you next week. Thanks.

There is lots of stress in this world right now: pandemics, politics, protests and more. It's manifesting into a dismissive anger that goes beyond just "frustration." I even got angry at spinach. Here's how I'm dealing.

Happy 2023.

We are tripping into this year with a bit of anxiety: 2022 wasn’t great for most of us, we are still in year 4 of the pandemic, uncertainty on the horizon and ChatGPT ruining our memories of writing high school papers.

There are very few things that make me think that 2023 is going to be a “good year.” And that’s because most of the time I’m looking externally for things to be good. One of the biggest changes I foresee is that many of our expectations and assumptions, especially in the US, are going to be massively disrupted. 

Yet fear not! There are ways to cope and attack. The world changing isn’t a problem – it’s a circumstance to respond to. Therefore, I’ve come up with the “Four I’s” of 2023 to help you manage along. 

First, Identity. When we must make change – whether it’s a resolution or forced change, we must identify with it for us to manage it well. Our end game and result has to become core to who we are. If your resolution is to lose weight, we have to make “skinny people decisions.” If we want to get a promotion, the identity of that role has to be core to our personality. 

The reason is must become core to our being is for when things get crazy and stressful, we default to our basic level. This is why resolutions fail. Our default choice must become the one that changes. And this default is going to be especially necessary as we anchor ourselves for the technological change being thrust upon us. 

Second, Intentionality. Presence is a big word. And so is intentionality. Without it, we are aimless. With things like OpenAI arriving and finally, fundamentally, changing the way things get done, we need to be intentional about how we use this technology to better ourselves. We can’t shortcut things anymore – for AI to work, we have to think in new ways and get better results because of it. Ironically, this is different than how we operate today. 

Finally, three and four: “Inquisitive Intellectuality.” We need a new way to learn through questions. Yes, we are capable of great things, but it’s going to require us to think in very new ways, with specificity and providing parameters to elevate our way of being. AI will help us in 2023 get there. 

Looking ahead, there is a lot more on the horizon. The people who will do well will be those accountable to themselves; those who take ownership and responsibility for their actions and are willing to have the uncomfortable conversations with themselves. Lots of excitement is around the bend – so let’s embrace it and enjoy the ride!

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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Bellwether. Happy 2023 Whole new Year. Uh, same old podcast, but it’s still gonna be really good stuff. Today’s episode, we’re gonna talk about 2023, the big plans for the year, what I think is gonna be, uh, incredibly influential for 2023 and what to look out for in 2023. I’ll do a quick recap of 2022 because that, uh, informs much of what I think about 2023, because this is an ongoing cycle and, uh, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be good. 0:34 Um, it’s gonna be hard, but it’s gonna be good. And this episode I think is really important and I’m really excited about it. Cause there’s really good things, uh, coming up for 2023. Um, let’s start with last year. Let’s start with 2022. It sucked. <laugh> 2022 sucked. And when we look at 2020, 2021, 20 22, we’re three years of pandemic. We’re entering our fourth year of the pandemic, and it’s probably going to suck as well. 1:04 And you know, I remember back at the beginning of the pandemic, people were talking about how it’s gonna be a 10 year challenge, and people laughed, but that was kind of prescient because we’re now entering, you know, the fourth year of a pandemic, which is crazy. And so, um, coming out the other end, we’re coming into a completely different world, and the amount of change that’s happening is immense. Um, 2022, the third year of the pandemic was a bunch of garbage, uh, war going on. 1:34 Um, this big stupid debate on remote versus hybrid work versus back to the office. Um, this ongoing fear of a recession, the economic downturn that started last year, it’s gonna really kick up, I think in 2023, although some people now are saying it won’t. Um, stupid sayings last year, like quiet quitting and quiet firing and, and all that other stuff. And, um, if you were to package all that up, I would almost say it was just this year of trying to find a place, trying to find relevancy, um, trying to figure out where we fit and come up with something that that would, would resonate. 2:16 And when we do that, it’s just a year of just unknown stress. I call it the fear of the unknown. We know something is coming, we just don’t know when, and we know the facts. We know what’s gonna happen, they just haven’t been realized yet. So it’s always what’s around the corner, what’s around the corner, what’s around the corner? And that’s really been, um, troublesome for a lot of people in 2022. 2:38 It’s gonna continue into 2023. And the challenge with that we have is that we forget about what’s happening today. It’s always what’s around the corner, what’s around the corner? What’s around the corner. So, um, the challenge is, I think general agreement 2022 sucked. Not many people would say, yeah, 2022 was a great year. Um, but mindset has shifted and I think it’s probably laid the groundwork almost like a pain threshold, right? 3:05 The more pain you experience, the the tougher you get. I feel like we have shifted, behaviors have started to change. Uh, mindset has changed. We’re seeing many of the things that we took for granted aren’t actually there. Like everything we took for granted, all the assumptions we had are, were really kept together by like chicken bones and band-aids. And, um, a lot of our expectations and assumptions are going to be disrupted in 2023. 3:33 And it’s not new normal, it’s stupid. Um, but we’re, we’re a little slow to get these new realizations and, and confusion. You know, you go through the grocery store and, and shelves are empty. Um, and, and different things as well. You know, just the things that we would normally have and, and we’re gonna be pinching pennies and, and everything else. And so, you know, is the age of abundance in America over is, is a philosophical question to ponder that I’ve been thinking a lot. 4:03 And what’s the cost of abundance? What have we paid to have everything so readily available, and are we prepared to change for that? And I think that’s a lot of the consumer behavior, it’s big for the US is going to change. It has to change. Um, we are a consumer nation. Uh, even Mr. Rogers used to talk about that. And, and that was his big thing like 40 years ago, was, you know, we’re raising little consumers, but we have to change that. 4:26 We have to change that mentality. And, you know, it’s a personal help of mine that we can kind of change this consumer fashion. But, um, so that’s 2022 that I think that’s the beginning of 2022. And what that means for us for this year, let’s talk about it because in addition to what the ongoing pandemic is going to teach us, um, we have some cool stuff that just came out that’s going to blow our socks off. 4:50 This AI is here, open AI chat, G P t, um, and more. It’s creating the stir. And that’s, um, they’re creating a stir, not for what they can do. Everyone’s talking about, ooh, they can, um, they can write high school kids news, uh, uh, reports and essays, and they can do, you know, they can make our, our meal schedule for the week. It’s more about what’s possible and what they’re going to do. 5:14 And it’s giving us this little glimpse. Uh, we’ve been talking about AI for 20 years and it’s now here, here, like here, here in tangible and, and accessible. And, uh, it’s incredibly unsettling. Uh, but it’s awesome. And so, um, people are scared about what it means and people are very afraid of it. And I’m here to say, don’t be afraid, uh, because it’s here. It’s not going away. So you may, you may as well embrace it. 5:45 Um, but we’re focused on the wrong things. You know, we’re not, I’m, I’m not terribly concerned that high school kids won’t have to write papers, right? We have to go beyond that. We have to say, you know, why do high school kids write papers? Is to show that, that they know how to think and that they understand, uh, concepts and that they can formulate thought. And so we just have to figure out a new way for them to express that. 6:05 And we have to figure out a new way to teach, and we have to figure out a new way, uh, to think. And that’s what’s really amazing about it. And that’s what is really unsettling, is that we have to teach ourselves a new way to think. And that’s what 2023 is gonna be all about. We’re gonna be teaching ourselves a new way to approach challenges. We have to think in terms of how to give instruction. 6:25 We have to think about, um, how to give parameters and how to make specific requests for what we want. And it’s the way we should have been thinking for a long time. When we think about management, we think about leadership. We have to think about specificity. And, and in order to get what you want, you have to be very specific in how you ask for it. And AI now is that way, and it’s almost kind of that little jolt that we needed. 6:50 Um, but we all have to create something now using AI as the backbone and where this evolves is fun to really think about. But that’s not relevant for today. You know, everyone’s gonna have their own AI and your own ai, your personal AI and all that other stuff, and that’s great. Um, and that’s cool. It’s, it’s scary as well. But, um, we have to now create and challenge in a new kind of way. 7:13 Like, when I think about work and what this means for work, yeah, it’s gonna make jobs irrelevant, but that doesn’t mean anything, right? We’ve been saying that forever. Um, it’s going to be uncomfortable to work. And you know, when we hear coaches and people talk about how you have to embrace discomfort and you have to embrace the challenges, this is almost, you know, this is the manifestation of that. And, you know, when we think about work, there’s comfort in the stupid busy work that we do because it’s easy. 7:45 We can turn our brains off, we can give them a rest, we’re good at it. You know, that little kind of shuffling papers and doing whatever. Um, and it allows us to procrastinate. We can just kind of go and do whatever. And, um, it’s our excuse as to why we’re not gonna get after it today. And we’ve been getting after it for so long that we’re just exhausted. Ai, that changes. Now, AI is gonna do your busy work and you know, we always talk about how we’re busy. 8:12 We always talk about all this work that we’re doing. We’re not really busy, we’re not doing smart work. Uh, some of us are, right? Some of us are, and sometimes we are. But AI now is going to eliminate a lot of that stupid procrastinating. There’s really no excuse to fill your time with this stuff that I used to love doing. Um, and it’s that busy work. And so how do we respond to that? 8:33 And how do we embrace that? And, and how do we use that? And what does that mean for us as individuals? And so when I think about 2023, I’m, I’m calling this, the year of four i’s the letter I, and I don’t know if it’s cuz my kid’s in Sesame Street right now. You right? The letter of the year is, I, um, and it just settled that way, whatever, it’s not, you know, it’s not like the, the stupid marketing kind of the four eyes of 2023. 8:58 Um, but here’s what it means for you as an how you as an individual can respond. So that’s all theory, that’s all theoretical, right? This is exciting and this is going to change things and it’s great and it’s here, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How do you respond? What’s important for you? That’s the important stuff. So let’s get to that. Number one. The first eye of 2023 is identity. Uh, we have not done the work. 9:21 Many of us have not done the work, uh, in term, uh, we haven’t done the work of who we are. We’ve scratched the surface a little bit. Um, we think about it, sometimes we reflect, but when we must make change, and that’s what this is, this is force change upon us. Um, but it’s the same. You, you wanna make resolutions, right? A New Year’s resolution, we’re at the beginning of the year. 9:40 New Year’s resolution is a request for change. And we’re trying to make this change, whether it’s a resolution, whether it’s force change, the only way it’s going to work for us is if we make it part of our identity. And so, for example, what do I mean by that? It, it’s gotta be core to who we are. If you, if your New Year’s resolution is to lose weight, your identity has to be, you now have to become at your core, a skinny person, and you have to make decisions that a skinny person would make, right? 10:10 Skinny people eat skinny things. Fat people eat fat things. And I know I’m making overly simplistic, and that’s not, you know, it, it’s, it sounds a little insensitive too. But ultimately that’s, that’s what you’re looking to do is what decisions are you making each day that would allow you to lose the 30 pounds you’re looking to lose? Um, and, and that’s fine. You could do that for a sustained period of time. 10:32 But resolutions, the reason they fail isn’t because we don’t have good discipline. It’s because we don’t, we haven’t made them core to our identity. When things get difficult, when things get stressful, we default back to our identity just to make quick decisions. And so how do you make your quick decisions that of a skinny person? Or if you wanna be a new executive, you wanna get a new job, you wanna get a promotion? 10:52 How are you making decisions as that person? You wanna be a chief marketing officer? What decisions do a chief marketing officer make at the organization? And how are you thinking like that so that when difficult things happen, you are elevating to that level so that it’s automatic and that’s part of your identity. And that’s, you know, that’s resolution stuff. But when change is being forced on who it is that you wish to be, um, we have to anchor ourselves to this identity because this change is being thrust upon us. 11:22 And so we have to figure out what is, and I’ve, I’ve beaten the dead horse on this so many times, but what is the belief system? What do you believe? Who are you as an individual? It goes beyond just simple resolutions. It goes beyond diet, it goes beyond, you know, I’m gonna resolve to go to sleep earlier. I’m gonna go to the gym every week. It’s, what do you believe that’s part of the identity that, that we as individuals are going to have to answer for ourselves. 11:46 And that’s one for 2023 because technology is going to disrupt it. It’s going to change who we are, are as an individual. And, and you know, for most people, their biggest part of our, their identity is their work and the busy work’s going away, and AI is about to disrupt it, and we fear that. And so we have to really think through and identify who it is that we are as an individual so that we are comfortable or at least more comfortable making this change. 12:12 So that’s one, that’s identity number two. The second eye of 2023 is intentionality. We now have to be incredibly intentional with what we’re doing day-to-day. And here’s what I mean by that. Presence is a big word. All right, we’re, we’re talking, that was the big word last, like maybe five to seven years, maybe 10 years about being present in the moment. Don’t worry about tomorrow, it hasn’t happened yet. Don’t worry about the past. 12:40 It’s the past. Be present on today. Um, and, and so presence is a big word, but someone’s intentionality. And, and without intentionality, someone once told me, without intentionality, you’re just spinning wheels. Um, and that’s true. But without intentionality, we’re not getting what we want. And I think about this through the lens of technology and ai. Um, the world is changing around us. So intentionality, we used to just hire someone to do something for us. 13:11 And that was great, right? We would say, Hey, go create this social media calendar. Go, um, do I dunno, put together this project plan, go do whatever. Um, and we assume that they know they, they knew what they were doing. And a lot of times, and I could tell you this, you know, I’ve hired marketing companies and they didn’t know what they were doing, right? They just blew a bunch of smoke. 13:33 And it’s probably the same with coaching and, and a lot of other things is do they know? Do people know what they’re actually, um, promising? Well, with ai, a lot of those things that people are selling, you can use AI for, but in order to use it appropriately, you have to be very intentional in what you ask. And it’s the same with management, it’s the same with outsourcing to other organizations. We have to be intentional with what is that end vision that we wish to see. 14:00 Um, I’ve trusted too many people to get work done, but my problem wasn’t that they weren’t good enough. My problem was that I wasn’t intentional in my request and I didn’t know how to do that and, and talk about what I wanted and how to elevate them. And so, um, once I’ve learned that with a, with ai, I’m going to be incredibly intentional and I’ve been incredibly intentional with the other people that I’ve, I’ve worked with. 14:23 I’m getting better results. And so intentionality, being specific in terms of what you want in terms of being successful is going to be very important this year. When you pair that with identity, it’s incredibly powerful. So let’s talk about numbers three and four. I, the the other eyes. Those were the two big ones. And then I was like, you can’t just have two eyes for 2023. So I came up with a third, but then it ended up being like three, four. 14:50 So it’s inquisitiveness, <laugh> and I, I go with an inquisitive intellectuality for three and four. Um, we have to learn a new way to learn through questions and we are capable of using AI and doing incredible things. Um, and we are very smart, but we have to ask really good questions. And we shouldn’t be fearing things like ai, we shouldn’t be fearing. I’m very heavy on AI this, this week. But, um, we need to embrace it and we need to ask questions and become familiar with it. 15:27 And that’s going to make us smarter. Uh, we can use AI to improve all of these other things. We can. We can see all of these things that are changing. We have to embrace it. There are people right now who are diving in so deep into this AI technology on a consumer level, on a day-to-day level that you’re being left behind. Uh, but we can learn from it. It’s not gonna like completely leave you, leave you behind, but your life is going to get better when you understand it more and can talk about it more. 15:55 Whether it’s something like crypto, whether it’s something like blockchain, whether it’s something like ai, these are the things that are, these are not going away. They’re not going away. And uh, they’re nerve wracking. Um, but when, you know, I don’t know if there is an I word for, for accountability, but, um, the people who do well in 2023, there’s a lot more on the horizon. Accountability. It’s up to you to answer those four eyes. 16:21 The identity, your identity, the intentionality, and being specific in what you want. And then being that curious, that intellectual, that inquisitive intellectuality, um, it’s on you. And the people who take ownership and responsibility for that, uh, are willing to have the uncomfortable conversations with themselves. Those are the ones that, that are gonna come out. Okay? Um, and that’s it. That’s 2023 in a nutshell. It’s, it’s a big one. This one’s, this is a big year and it go, time moves on, right? 16:55 I mean, time is just a concept. You could say it doesn’t exist if you want, but time will move on. And come June, you’re gonna be like, wow, I can’t believe half this year is over. And you’re still gonna be stressed out and you’re still gonna be worried. And, uh, new things will come out and new things to distract us. But if you want to be focused on you and, and making your world better, those are the areas that I’m talking to clients about. 17:18 Uh, when I’m working with executive leadership teams, those are the things we need executive leaders to be intentional. We need executive leaders to know who they are so that they can lead other people. Um, that’s, that’s the work in a nutshell. So have a great week. Have a great year. 2023 is it? We’re gonna do it. Uh, <laugh> co-team, go, uh, call me. I’m happy to help. Uh, more to come this year. 17:44 I’m, I’m kind of taking off the gloves on the podcast. I think the next one, one of the next one’s is gonna be what to do with all the white guys in the office, because there’s a lot of change there. That’s another big thing. So that, that might be next week or the week after. Um, so tune in for that and if you want anything you want me to cover anything, let’s talk about it. 18:03 It’s, uh, too much is going on to, to kind of dance around the flowers. Let’s just hit it head on. So have a great week. I’m looking forward to a lot of really good stuff this year and I’m always here to help. So thanks. Talk to you soon. Bye.

This week: I'm cheering you on. Let's chat unrealized dreams, the assumptions you make on why you can't do it, and how to get started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RET1kiAMXcw If you know me, you know my favorite holiday is St. Patrick’s Day. I don’t celebrate just a day - I call it “the season,” and the events and celebrations can last for over a month. As a proud Irish American, the opportunity to celebrate the culture of my forebears brings happiness, pride and nostalgia. Many of my happiest memories revolve around something Irish.  And they should. The Irish have one of the most outsized influences on the world of any group of people. From the arts; literature, poetry and music, straight through the amazing technology and business growth of the 21st century, having the Irish in our blood is certainly something to be celebrated.  But there is another aspect of the culture and reputation of the Irish that some would like to leave behind. Especially around the time of the St. Patrick’s day, there is a level of binge drinking and excess that occurs, to the point where even going into the city is fairly untenable. Now, some would argue it’s only those who are “only Irish on St. Patrick’s Day” that can’t hold their booze, there is no denying that a reputation as drinkers will persist for the Irish around the world.  My guest this week is Bill Reilly, who is on a mission to change perception. Bill is the Founder of the Sober St. Patrick’s Day Foundation, a movement whose focus is to “reclaim the day,” and provide an environment for people to celebrate Irish Heritage without obnoxious drunk teenagers binge drinking themselves all over your shoes. Bill doesn’t have a problem with drinking - it’s the excessive binge drinking that helped push his hand. I love to highlight people who not only “think differently,” but also take the steps to influence change, and Bill is a perfect example. The Sober St. Patrick’s Day movement has ballooned - going beyond New York City to events all around the world. It’s a great story, a great interview, and something to support if you love your Irish heritage as much as myself. So here we are, halfway to the big day, with a nice reminder to celebrate the best that the Irish culture has to offer.  Happy week! Bill Reilly (right), Founder of Sober St. Patrick's Day Sober St. Patrick’s Day® Foundation is proud to celebrate in 2021 a decade of changing the perception and experience of St. Patrick’s Day with family-friendly events and grand Irish hospitality. Join the celebration! Please visit www.soberstpatricksday.org Twitter @SoberStPatrick Email SSPD Founder/Chairman William Spencer Reilly: bill@soberstpatricksday.org

Welcome to the final 100 days of the year. Let's dive into accountability and what we can accomplish before the year is out.

Last week we chatted accountability; this week is about creating a filter to make decisions. All decisions I make are based on the filter of: will I have to worry about this later?

Humility and Humiliation go hand in hand and can both be detrimental to your success in the new economy.

This week - we’re covering the uncertainty aspect that 2020 has brought, and how tapping into the new favorite corporate buzzword: resiliency.

This week we cover the burnout that is driven by uncertainty, stages of workplace burnout, and the only way to beat it: recovery.

As we differentiate ourselves in the new economy, we have to ask ourselves: what are we creating that has value?

The first question to start your inner dialogue is, "What Do I Need Right Now?" - Your ultimate response to managing change.

While 2020 can be considered a dumpster fire, there are plenty of positive, important lessons to bring into the new year.

From the "purpose" question to "how do I get a job" ... here are the fundamentals to a career coach session.

From the office to the individual - adapting to change is the new skill set we can all use.

Recents events have shown me that we now have the platform to have more influence to build the community to make us better.

There will always be a debate on social media - the negatives and the positives - and that’s great; there should be. But at the end of the day, especially for entrepreneurs, the need for an effective social media presence is table stakes and won’t be going away.

As the workplace evolves, the stakes get higher on making sure we are able to influence the story that precedes us. Reputation, personal “brands,” and other stories impact our ability to move up in an organization, as well as build our community of people around us.

Much has been said about the “new economy” and where the world is going to go once the pandemic is over, but not enough around the vastly different ways that organizations are viewing their employees.

I get it - "leadership" as a topic is a bit basic. But moving beyond "how" a leader should act and into the emotional connection of leadership is a step not enough people take.

Getting to the C-Suite needs a different frame of mind - I explain how to get there.

I love metaphors and I love running. So, let's use running as a metaphor for any new thing you want to try.

There is an effective process to follow when communicating to the C Suite. Here are the steps.

Video is now table stakes for businesses and entrepreneurs. We chat with Anna Downes about the balance of time vs. ROI, and what makes good video.

Bestselling author and manufacturing executive Ben Lampron is part of the crew of people who recognize that things can be different for a lot of people if they just had the right bit of knowledge at the right time.

Chatting with Enda O'Doherty on real resilience, mental health, and why he is climbing mountains with a washing machine on his back.

Almost every coaching client I’ve worked with has asked for help creating an “organizational system;” one to help them better manage their time to be more productive, efficient, and effective. Dennis Wayland, Lean extraordinaire,

The old joke goes that people are more afraid of public speaking than dying - so they would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. Why are we so petrified of speaking in front of a group of people?

It’s not every day you get to sit across the table from a pro boxer. It’s exciting and fun and you just feel cool. And once you make sure that you are in no way offending them or opening them up to hitting you,

This week, we learn from Tricia Barger, owner of Poppy Tree Design and Yoga Instructor, on the benefits of simplicity, the beauty of silence and how empowering minimalism can be. The topic of wellness has been monetized to the point where it no lon...

The conundrum of the digital world is that we have all of this technology to make our lives easier, but what are we willing to sacrifice in order to use it? Stories abound of families glued to their smartphones around the dinner table and the impact of...

Defining wellness, and organizing what it actually means, is step one to figuring out what to work on. This outlines the details of physical, mental and social well being.

It’s always a risk for a white guy to cover the topic of equality in the workplace. So that’s why I’m thrilled to have Eileen Scully join me to provide her perspective and wisdom on the topic. Eileen is a consultant,

As promised in a previous post and podcast, I’ve decided to organize my thoughts on wellness. It’s such a massive topic, that it needs to be broken down into categories. Today, we focus on the physical aspect of wellness. Physical wellness,

Today we cover part three of my Wellness, Organized series: The Mental. For context, there is an overview post and podcast here and my focus on Physical Wellness here. This is Mental Health Awareness month.

Wrapping up Mental Health Awareness Month, I’m happy to offer up my third and final installment of my Wellness, Organized series: Social Wellness. As mentioned in previous podcasts and posts - I decided to organize my thoughts on what wellness means...

Wrapping up Mental Health Awareness Month, I’m happy to offer up my third and final installment of my Wellness, Organized series: Social Wellness. As mentioned in previous podcasts and posts - I decided to organize my thoughts on what wellness means...

Today the topic is self-development. When we think of self-development, we instantly think of self-improvement or self-help. Those terms and ideas bring with them a subconscious implication that we are failing at something where we shouldn’t.

It’s no secret that our childhood experiences have massive effect on who we are as individuals. But how about the way that we treat others? This week I learned about Adverse Childhood Experiences, otherwise known as ACEs.

In case you haven’t heard, or if you were wondering why flags everywhere have a rainbow, June is Pride month.  It’s a celebration of the history and contributions that have been made by the LGBTQ community. And this year,

In a week celebrating a country's independence, let's focus on your own independence, and how your assumptions can limit your choices.

When it comes to being more productive, everyone has an opinion.  Some people say get your work done in the morning, others get work done after lunch. Some say make a list. Others say to work in time blocks.  The advice is far reaching, it often conflicts, and is based on opinion. Everyone’s model of productivity works for them, and then they proceed to inform you how to be like them. The issue is, not everyone is the same.  Now, I love the tactical approach. Tips and tricks on how to operate, provided people can adjust and make them “their own,” can be very helpful. If nobody shared their learnings, then we wouldn’t learn. Simple as that.  But moving beyond the tactical approach is finding a rhythm. And when people come to me with productivity challenges, often times they are talking about their “rhythm.” They want a system - something to get them operating at a higher level; a silver productivity bullet. It may exist in Ithaca, NY. In this week’s podcast, I chat with Nathan Walz, founder of Journey to Optimal Health, about light. Yes, light.  Apparently, since I didn’t pay attention at all in my science classes growing up, light operates on a frequency that adjusts during the day. And your body responds to these frequencies as part of your circadian rhythm. Nathan chats about how tapping into your circadian rhythm (something we are all born with and is our natural way), can do wonders not just to productivity, but to mental health as well.  I will admit, I was skeptical going in. Typically when I hear about natural things, I discount it, simply because I chalk it up to “hippy theory” or pseudo-science or imagination.  Thing is, Nathan has the science to back this up. And it makes a lot of sense. In the morning, as the sun is rising, light enters at frequencies and they change throughout the day. This tells your body to be tired or awake.  We hear all the time about the dangers of technology and how it impacts our sleep. It’s because the blue light from our phones gives off the frequency of morning light - which screws up our circadian rhythm. LED lights do the same thing. And once he got rolling, I was learning about all kinds of things that affect my rhythm.  It’s an interesting area of focus that I haven’t heard much of before chatting with him: using your circadian rhythm to be more productive. I like it, and I’m going to explore it more.  But in the meantime, listen to the podcast and see what small changes you can make to eliminate “blue light” - from changing light bulbs to getting filtered glasses.  Most people don’t want to hear it, but the mornings are most productive for many people, and light could play a big part in that. And while I’m not one to tell people what to do, hearing Nathan say that the idea of night owls vs. morning larks is bullshit … well that just makes me smile.  So listen away, and tomorrow get up, watch the sun rise, and tackle the day! Nathan's website: https://journeytooptimalhealth.com/ His Top 9 "biohacks": http://bit.ly/mitochondriac  And his links to Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Instagram

Obviously, I’m a believer in the value of coaching. I’m also a believer in the fact that there is a lot to learn from all corners of this pebble we call Earth, and each person has a unique perspective to bring to any kind of relationship.  What makes that perspective unique is the culmination of our experiences over time.  Alan Goldstein isn’t young, but they say with age comes wisdom. And if there is an example of a person who has had perspective changes over the years, you won’t find a better one than his.  A self-described radicalized Vietnam Veteran, Alan is a retired dentist from the Bronx who now has a successful life coaching business. There is a lot in that sentence for you to take in.  Alan and I are both big on creating an inner dialogue and finding the questions you need to ask yourself to truly identify what it is that you believe. These beliefs then translate into actions. Change is uncomfortable - we know this. But creating a healthy internal conversation is just one specific, tangible aspect of managing and responding to change in the best way you can.  I’ve learned a lot from Alan, and I think you will, too. Alan Goldstein Alan's Website: http://www.coachingpractice.com/index.php

Ah yes, the dread of speaking in public. We are going to go there again - but not in the same way as before. I love getting feedback from listeners on what they want me to cover in a podcast - and advice on how to write a speech was interestingly a hot request. So let’s do it. I consider the speech process to have three “events” or “phases.”  The first phase is the fear of speaking; that gut wrench when someone asks you to give an update at a Town Hall. We all know it so well - it’s well documented, there is plenty of advice, the dead horse continues to be beaten. That’s something that takes work to overcome - and look back to this episode with speech coach Tony Figliola for some tremendous tips to help you overcome the fear.  Another phase is the actual delivery of the speech, which you want to be engaging, enthusiastic and impressive. We’ll cover that in the future. But in between is arguably the most important phase of the speech process: actually writing it.  Maybe there is a fourth phase - a relief when it’s finally over - but that’s for another time. Back to writing.  I think a big, underappreciated aspect of the fear of public speaking is the fear of the unknown. And part of the unknown is that we don’t know what to say. Finding the words to communicate what emotions or feelings we want to convey can be anxiety-inducing. It takes focus, practice and true, pen-to-paper work.  Most people focus on delivery. Enthusiasm and connecting with the audience is vital for success. But no matter how dynamic a speaker you are, without the proper words and messaging, you are going to fall flat.  Enter this week’s podcast guest Mike Greenly.  Mike has made words his life’s work. He joins us this week on the podcast to talk about how words have power. “They are oxygen,” says Mike. And that oxygen gives life to your presentations.  There is a lot to consider when writing a speech: Who is the audience? What do they need to hear? What do you *want* them to hear? What’s the medium? PowerPoint or no? Where in the hell do I even begin?  Mike takes us back to basics. The first step, and most important part of speech writing, is finding the “north star” - that main takeaway that you want to convey. Everything else can link back to that.  There are different types of speeches and occasions that require different writing styles and  presentations. A conference of 5,000 is very different from a board presentation of seven executives. Regardless of the situation, structuring a speech is telling a story. And how do your story and words bring your audience on a journey?  Listen to the podcast for more Mike’s tips - he has plenty of them. And reach out to him below to learn more about what he does … Mike Greenly, speech writer extraordinaire Website: http://www.mikegreenly.com/ His Medium article on speech writing is here. The state anthem of Virginia, which he wrote, can be heard here. His song "Common Ground" can be heard here.

How we choose to spend our time is what dictates everything about our situation today and in the future, so it's refreshing to remember that yes, time is a choice.

I have a theory. I believe that part of the reason adults are so miserable is that they have stopped learning.  There is something special about being a kid. The awe of new things, wonder and learning - I’d argue it’s what makes being a kid so special. It’s why young people are so happy and engaged and have desires to do new things. As we get older - we lose that. We have to meet the expectations of others. We have to present ourselves in certain ways to meet the needs of the Joneses and impress other people. We evolve from learning internally to showing externally. And that sucks. A client recently told me that his favorite part about coaching is that it helped him realize that “he likes learning.” I thought that was pretty wise and well said. After all, we never think about what we are learning day to day. And the reason for that is because we have our routines. When we get stuck - and by stuck I can mean any kind of rut - I tend to blame it on routine.  Routine takes away learning. It’s the same thing over and over again. That may comfort people from time to time, but it doesn’t quite help us grow.  The fun thing to note is that learning can take many forms. It’s not just learning a new language or a new skill - it could mean learning about yourself. What could be cooler or more important than that? I mean, come on … it’s you.  I give an example on the podcast about running. Everyone tries to run and almost everyone quits running. Because it’s miserable. But the reason people find it miserable is that nobody takes the time to “learn” how to run. They just go out and try to crush a distance and focus on how miserable they feel doing it.  Once I learned to run, it changed my whole perspective on it. Now I use running to help me think or de-stress - and I try to go every day.  We can identify the desire to try something new or to make a change. People do it all the time. If one more person tells me that they want to write a book, I may jump off a bridge. But I know they won’t, because they haven’t learned to write. And that takes practice. Once people learn how to do something, in their way, then they can learn how to love it.  I talk about inner dialogue often, and the power of choice. There is an endless possibility of everything in the world because there is an endless possibility of learning - not just books, but about yourself as well. Your values, your motivations. Why you say things you do, and why you are responding to things like you do. Examining and peeling back the onion on what gets you going is a learning journey in and of itself. So with that, I would encourage you to get out and learn something. Maybe learn about why you flipped off that guy in traffic. Maybe learn about why grapefruits are called grapefruits (it’s because they grow like grapes on trees). I can’t think of a better way to spend your time …  Enjoy!

Last week on the podcast I discussed the love of learning. But, as always, learning is one thing and practical application is something completely separate.  With that in mind, this week’s podcast is devoted to some practical examples on how to use learning to improve. True learning for whatever it is that we want to improve comes down to our ability to ask ourselves questions. To learn in the moment, we need to have a level of awareness and challenge ourselves with the difficult questions that are so easy to ignore.  For those not listening to the podcast, here are the three things I highlight:  First - Preparation.  I use running as the example on the podcast. But in order to get started, you have to prepare and that includes the “why.” If you want to start running - ask yourself the “why” question. Is it because of self image and you want to get in shape? Is it because you want to lose weight? Is it because you want to impress another person? All of these questions will impact your ability to take running (or anything other habit) on. You may find that running isn’t the right answer, after all. Second - Collect Data. Businesses use data to make big decisions - why aren’t you?  Data has to go through iterations. From data you have to garner information, which you have to turn into knowledge, which you then have to move to wisdom. It’s called the DIKW pyramid. For example, knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.  If you want to start a running regimen - track everything. Each day, write down your distance and time that you ran. Put some notes on what was good or not.  There are two types of data here - both have value. Objective data (time/distance) and subjective (feelings). Both of these provide value as to why you are or are not moving towards your goal. This is true for running, writing a book, launching a business. If you did not do what you wanted to today - ask yourself why. You may realize you don’t want to do it. Third - Learn in the Moment Use the data to make decisions in the moment. If you always end your run at a certain spot, maybe challenge yourself to go a different distance. If a distance isn’t challenging enough, maybe run for a certain amount of time. Each of these will change up the perspective and help keep it interesting.  If you find every Tuesday you go slower than the other days, maybe something is impacting that. If you find that you are only going twice a week, but want to go five, you can ask yourself the question of what’s impacting your ability to get it done.  We all have these amazing ideas and lists of things we want to accomplish. But if you aren’t focused on it daily, or weekly, then it will always just be an idea.  I hope the examples on the podcast were helpful! Enjoy the week!

If you work for a corporation, you are probably familiar with the annual Individual Development Plan, or IDP. But what about creating one just for you outside of work?

You know good, smart people. These good, smart people can help you in many different ways. Why not put them to use as you attempt something new?

Bouncing Back is a process - and one that takes focus. Here's how to improve your "BounceBackAbility"

Managing what you want people to see is fundamental to your success.

Sometimes it's not so complicated to find a purpose, hobby or passion. Scott shares how he found his spark, with plenty of sound advice on finding your own.

Susanne Tedrick, technology exec and author of “Women of Color in Tech” offers a blueprint for the leadership of any organization who wants to do the work to build a fair, equitable, diverse and inclusive workforce.

This week I’m continuing the theme of reputation, and I want to cover the idea of “personal branding.”  I hate the term - I feel like it’s a marketing gimmick designed to sell corporate workshops - but the idea of it is an extremely important one, especially as the economy and work structure are changing. And, since I don’t have a better term to replace “personal brand” - we’ll run with it.  Last week I wrote a bit about “presence” - and what people see of you in the moment. It’s an often-forgotten area of focus for people, especially as we get so busy in meetings and with delivering our work, yet it is a fundamental component of what makes our personal brand. It’s no secret that reputation is key to success. But reputation is only one aspect. Reputation, presence, personal brand - all of these fall under the same umbrella but have nuanced definitions that require different focus.  Presence is what people see in the moment. Reputation is what precedes you, and the story people tell. Your “personal brand” is a culmination of all of this.  While I think the term “personal brand” is ridiculous, the idea is a necessity in today’s world. Think about it - you have a story out there. And when you meet or hear about someone new - you instantly go online to look at them. And if you are like me, you judge them. Establishing and maintaining your personal brand is a great exercise to go through and to revisit a few times a year. To do so, there are three questions to answer regarding Character, Commitment and Story.  First, Character. The ever-present question of “Who are you?”  What do you bring to the table? Character, or personality or persona, is a combination of your inner drivers and what other people see. It encompasses your values, your motivations, your interests. It’s what you prioritize and find important. Your brand has to align with your character, otherwise we are pretending to be something we aren’t.  I won’t beat a dead horse on this - as it’s in a few previous posts - but doing the exercise of what words describe you and what people would use, is an excellent first step. Dos, Commitment. What do people experience when they interact with you? Think of a corporate brand that you recognize, like Starbucks. When you think of Starbucks, you know exactly what to expect every time you walk in that store. They have made a commitment to you: wifi, coffee, bathrooms.  What about you? When people interact with you - what expectations do they have? If they approach you for something at the office or in the community, what outcome do they foresee? The importance of this step can’t be understated. Expectations on how you will act impact the ways that people treat you, ask you questions or offer you assistance. Trois, Story.  What is the story you want people to tell about you? Taking pieces of your Character and Commitment - how do you stitch them together into a package so people will tell the story for you. This is the reputation that we want to harvest and nurture.  Day in and out, your presence will impact this story. Also, what other people say will impact the story. While we can’t completely control this, we can do everything in our power to impact it so that the story that goes ahead of us is one that will make our interactions more productive.  Whether going for a promotion, looking for a new job or simply getting a project done - your personal brand, when properly defined and working, will open many more doors. Happy branding!

This week - we are covering insecurity. My insecurity. Your insecurity. And the reason it’s one of the bigger impacts on what we can accomplish.

Imposter Syndrome: No matter how many times we tell ourselves we are capable, we continually have a nagging voice in the back of our head that makes us question things.

Your culture is driven by your communication; and knowing what makes healthy vs. destructive communication is one skill all leaders must learn.

Within the context of insecurity, we ask the question: Are we aiming too low?

Today I wrap the insecurity series up with a few minutes on how to have influence, without necessarily having authority tied to it.

At its most basic, Ted Lasso is a macro, meta-level fight between good and evil; a social commentary on acceptable and productive workplace behaviors.

David Jaques shares his mental health story and how we can start the conversation at work.

PSA: Just having a will isn't enough - Joanne shares what you need and how easy (and important) it is to get it done.

Scott keeps good company - the type that you learn from over and over again. Here's how to find a mentor.

There is a difference between "routine" and "rhythm," and each one affects progress differently.

In order to get someone to believe us, we have to show them, not tell them, what we are capable of.

Let's be proactive in preparing for the next downturn ... here's how.

I generally avoid motivation as a speaking topic because it’s often filled with clickbait headlines and arbitrary, context-free advice that isn’t relevant to anyone, anywhere. (I’m not angry). 

I do, however, find it frustrating to get good counsel when there are challenging things going on – especially when it comes to something as individualistic as motivation. Yes, everyone struggles with motivation from time to time, but everyone’s solution is going to be different. And that’s one of the difficult aspects of development, for me – finding a bespoke solution to a problem everyone is dealing with. Yet, it’s the only way that works. 

We all love motivation – we all want it, desire it, hope for it. We blame a lack of it for the reasons we don’t get what we want. It’s one of those intangibles that can be so elusive when we really need it. 

What I’ve found, though, in “re-finding” motivation to do things, is that it’s dynamic. I share some examples of triathlon, running and work on the podcast, but the things that motivated me before aren’t necessarily the things that would motivate me now. Those things might be the same or different – but regardless of that – I’m a different person with each new experience I encounter. 

Finding motivation to lace up shoes and go for a run is a metaphor for other things. While I recognize the benefit and joy of running (yes, I said joy) – there are just some days where it doesn’t click. And as we gear up for big change and big projects, motivation is at a premium and we don’t get many opportunities to “wait for it to show up.” 

So, I try to process it out. And for me, the two aspects that are generating the most motivation revolve around creativity and company. 

First, I need a “why” that impactful – and that comes from me being able to create something of value. This could be a program for work, it could be a training program for a race, it could be a new book or article. Creating value; something that’s generating a positive reaction and is helpful for other people, gets me jazzed and moving forward.

Second, though, is beyond me – it’s my ability to surround myself with other good, motivated individuals. While I can’t control what another person does, I can control who I surround myself with … and by surrounding myself with positive, motivated people, I’m inclined to circle back and get creative myself. 

More on the podcast, like how Eddie Vedder is making me motivated to do more triathlons … but finding out your people and your value are two of the fundamentals to true motivation. It’s not easy – it takes ongoing reflection and work – but the payoff will be big. 

Enjoy the week!

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Speaker 1 (00:00):3, 2, 1. Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for joining this week. We’re gonna talk about motivation. I’m talking to you about motivation today. I’m gonna keep it quick and short because I have a meeting in 12 minutes and we’ll see if I can get this recorded in time to do that. So I’m motivated to tell you about motivation in a very short and efficient time. Um, this week I talk about not just motivation. I want to talk about refining motivation. How do you get re-motivated? Because we all do things that we love. We all get jazzed about different types of things. We all get excited about, you know, new opportunities and new things. And, and we get older and we change and time goes on and, and we just kind of lose the spark as it were. And how do we find that spark again? And what do we have to do?

Speaker 1 (00:46):And what kind of reflective exercises do we have to figure out to say, is this still something I should be motivated on? Is this still something I want to do? You know, all of these types of things. So I generally avoid the topic of motivation. Uh, um, I mean, I talk about it in different ways. I don’t like using the term motivation because it’s such a, there’s so much BS advice about it. Uh, I Googled it right before I did this, just to see if there was anything I really wanted to, to drive home and all I wanna drive home is don’t Google it because it’s just a bunch of bogus, like Buzzfeed collect, bait, headlines, you know, focus on something you love and you’ll be motivated and you like, like, okay, pound sand, thank you. That’s just not helpful. Um, and so everybody thinks that they’re an expert on motivation.

Speaker 1 (01:29):They’re gonna tell you, oh, just go meditate and figure out what you love and, and follow your passion. And then they leave like they’re, you know, super coaches telling you what to do. And, uh, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean Jack. So, um, the focus on what you love, force yourself into a habit, um, it’s all BS. It’s just all garbage. And the reason it’s all garbage is because if you don’t wanna do something, you’re not gonna do it period. Right. That’s it. Right. So if you, whatever it is that you’re looking to do, and you’re trying to find motivation, uh, you’re probably looking in the wrong place. We’re probably focused on the wrong things. And I, I, I can relate to that pretty well. Um, and it was extremely relevant this weekend. So this weekend I was up, uh, it came a bit to a head.

Speaker 1 (02:16):I signed up for a 20 mile run, why I do these things, I don’t know, but I signed up for a 20 mile run up at Martha’s vineyard. And, um, some people sign up to do it as a relay. Some people sign up, do the full thing because they’re stupid. And, um, and a lot of us, we just didn’t wanna do it. Our heads weren’t in it. We were like 20 miles. It’s cold. It’s rainy. Like why, why we’re in our forties? We’re grown individuals. Why are we choosing to do these things? And the nice part about being an adult is that you could choose to not do something right. And I’m a big proponent of, you know what? I just don’t wanna do it today and I’m not going to, and I’m a grown man. And I could just tell you that I’m not gonna run 20 miles today.

Speaker 1 (02:55):So I ran 10 and that was fine. I still hated it, but I wasn’t, you know, and, and I was talking to my friend, Emily, who invited me up, she kind of coordinates this run with a bunch of her friends and she’s been gracious enough to, to invite me up. And, uh, her, her husband, Dennis, who’s been a friend of mine for over 20 years, um, is up. And we make like a big weekend out of it. And it’s a lot of fun and it’s great social interaction, but we were, were talking about, and she said, you should do a podcast on, on motivation. You know, it’s February Martha’s vineyard. It sounds like a cool idea. I don’t know when it does, but, um, but why aren’t we motivated to do this? We used to love it. We used to love this run. We used to be like RA RA, RA 20 miles.

Speaker 1 (03:34):Let’s do this. And now it’s like, eh, you know why? And, and it related to me because the same thing happened to me last year, I signed up for a triathlon with a buddy. We were doing a half Ironman up in upstate New York. And I woke up that morning. I’m like, it’s not gonna happen today. Like, I’m just not, I wasn’t in it. Like, it’s just, and I, and I left my bike there and I, I didn’t sign up to, I signed up to do the race, but I, I didn’t show up. I went up and saw him. I said, I’m not, I’m not going today called me a punk, but he did it. And you can’t take your bike out of a triathlon until it’s over. So I basically gotta sit there and watch all these triathletes do it. Um, which was awful. But so what I did was I sat and I reflected.

Speaker 1 (04:12):I’m like, why? Couldn’t like, I couldn’t get my head around doing a half Ironman that day. And I’d done a bunch of them before, and I reflected a lot on it. And why am I doing triathlon? And what’s the point in this? I’m spending all this money. I’m, I’m like, what’s why, why am I doing all of these things? And, and it was the same thing with the run this weekend. And, uh, my Tommy was actually pretty good. Cause I get triathlon magazine, triathlete magazine, one, whatever it’s called, they mail it to me. They still mail you a magazine, which is nice. And like, after I, two weeks after I had not done the triathlon, the headline article was, you know, if you can’t visualize yourself finishing a race, you probably shouldn’t do it cause you might hurt yourself. And I was like, all right, these people something’s going on in the triathlon world that other people aren’t motivated in the way that I’m motivated.

Speaker 1 (04:55):Um, and so it resonated with me and it was really important. And, and what I figured as I was doing the race, not doing the race, sitting, reflecting on why I wasn’t doing the race was I signed up for triathlon to see if I could do it. And that was my why. Right. And I, I started with a and started with a 10 K run and then I went to a tough mud. And then I went to a, I don’t know, a, a sprint triathlon, an Olympic triathlon. I did a half Ironman. And then last year I full ma a full Ironman, uh, or two years ago, whatever it was. And so I’ve done it, I’ve done it. And I was like, okay, so now I’ve got a half Ironman. I’m like, I’ve already did a full right. What, what’s the point? You know, like, you know, I, I needed something bigger.

Speaker 1 (05:38):Um, what’s next? And, and what I settled on is in this kind of clicked on me, cuz there were other things going on with, you know, why the business, you know, why I can help people. That’s great, but you know why? And we have to find these why’s in and out of it. And so, you know, what I had settled on was that I wanted to see if I could do it and I could do it. And there are a lot of things in my life that, that really motivated me up probably until I was like 40. Can I do it? Can I do a tough mother? Yes. Can I do an Ironman? Yes. Can I write a book? I did it right. All of these things. Right. Let me sign up for the craziest thing and people will. Why? Like I wanna see if I could do it and that was it and adventure time.

Speaker 1 (06:20):Right. And that’s good. Just try something. If you fail, at least you tried it, yada, yada, it’s not good enough for me now. And um, maybe it’s because I’ve hit the max kind of crazy. I want to hit, you know, I could just sit there and say, maybe I have to do a hundred mile run. Maybe I have to do that. But then at what point, like I’m gonna be 80 years old doing like 10 mile runs. It’s not, it’s not really sustainable to keep going that way. So what I got on was I’ve seen that I could do things I could do whatever I, whatever I set my mind to now I wanna get good at it. And that’s where I settle. Right. I wrote a book now I wanna write a really good book. I did a triathlon now I’m I’m, my life is dedicated to beating my friend, Larry at tri Athlon.

Speaker 1 (06:59):Um, I wanna get good at it to beat Larry. Um, so all of these things are, you know, we need something bigger. We need a why that’s bigger. And, and I I’m constantly brought back to when we talk about fitness and wellness and this is very fitness focused and I apologize for that. It’s only because it’s kind of relevant right now. But um, I always say, you know, it goes back to find something, to do, learn how to do it and then learn to love it. And I love it. I love triathlons and I love writing and I love these things, but sometimes that’s just not enough. Right? So finding something you love is not enough because there’s other things going on in our lives. And we make decisions based on because ultimately motivation is a decision you’re deciding to do something. And it’s based on the things we want to do at a certain time. That’s what motivation is. And as we continue to evolve our interest change and that’s okay, right. I’ve evolved. I I’m now I’m not a good triathlete, but I’m a athlete. Who’s done a full Ironman. So now my perspective’s different. I have to change what my motivation is going to be. I’m not an aspiring writer. I’ve actually written may not be good, but I wrote it and I published it and that’s fine. Right? So my perspective is different. Uh, I’ve had two conversations recently with friends about living in the city.

Speaker 1 (08:24):It’s awesome in your early thirties, late twenties, but they’re in their late forties, early fifties. And, and they’re like, look, the city’s changed. I’m like the city hasn’t changed. You’ve changed. City’s still fun if you’re 30 years old, but now we’re kind of like get off my lawn, right? Get the hell outta here. And, and people are turning their back. And that’s ultimately where motivation to kinda lies in this. We changing in the world’s changing, but certain things are staying the same and it’s different. And it’s all of this type of stuff. And, and you know, you may love running at a younger age or boxing or whatever. Uh, maybe something new sparks your interest and you wanna do yoga. That’s fine. There’s always something bigger than what we are talking about in the moment and tapping into that is, is where your motivation lies.

Speaker 1 (09:09):And, and so there are two things that I’ll leave you with that I wanna, for me, in terms of refining, motivation is not just about, you know, I decided to do this. So now I just have to get motivated to do it. Maybe you don’t. And so I would say two things for motivation. One is we all wanna feel valued. This is part one of motivation, right? When we feel, and when we know that we are bringing value, we are motivated. At least I am right. So I need to be bringing value. I get jazzed about doing cool stuff, L and D learning and development, adult learning, changing a corporation and the way they think about things and all of this stuff, uh, seeing an adult’s potential gets me jazzed, right? Like in crazy what ways? I just had a, a pre-call with someone who wants to be on the podcast and they’ve got this really cool creative idea.

Speaker 1 (10:02):And I’m like, this is, this is amazing. And they got jazzed and motivated. And, um, but, but in order to, to bring value, we have to create something, right. We can’t just be of value. We have to create something. We have to do something and, and it’s not just taking orders. We have to execute. We have to come up with a good way to do it. That’s where motivation is. We can’t just be an expert and wait for people to come to us. We have to create something that we can be proud of. And, and it goes back to what are you creating? And, and I think that’s why the, the Beatles documentary on, on Disney was so big with the get back 10 hours. Um, and I just listened to a podcast on the way home from this run, I was introduced to it by my friends, Dennis and Emily, um, the smartless podcast with Willette and, and Jason Batman, Sean Hayes, they were interviewing Eddie Vetter.

Speaker 1 (10:53):And, you know, today we’re at this point where we have just this unfettered access into how geniuses work and none of them are focused on what other people think. They’re only focused on creative process. If you watch the Beatles, get back, what, what you look at Paul McCartney, he wasn’t even there. When people were talking to him, he was thinking about something completely out there. He was committed to his work and the creative process and whatever it is. So we’re able to see the way these J genius is think, right? And the question struck me as I was driving home, listening to Eddie Vetter, talk about his, you know, why he makes the music he makes and all of this stuff like Eddie Vetter is one of the only rock stars that like true rock stars in the world. And so the question that came to me is what if Eddie Vetter showed up at my house, could I go toe to toe with Eddie Vetter?

Speaker 1 (11:44):And I would love to go toe to toe with Eddie Vetter, right? That would motivate the hell outta me. And, and the answer should be like, hell yeah, I would like Eddie Vetter. If you listen to this and you need a people strategy for Pearl jam ring, a ding, man, let’s do it. Let’s rock. And, and they asked him the question, who haven’t you worked with and who would you want to? And he danced around. He said, basically, basically what he said is I have right. He just danced around it. But what he talks about is he likes creating things with interesting people. So it’s not that he wants to identify one person to work with, with, he wants to create things with interesting people. So what are you doing to make Eddie better? Wanna create something with you? And so that’s motivating to me.

Speaker 1 (12:20):So that’s part of it. That’s a creative process is one, but the second part of it is social interaction. It’s gotta be social. It’s so much fun chatting with people this weekend. And we have to surround ourselves with people who are going to motivate us to be positive, upbeat, uh, it’s time to be selective to say, who’s going to help me get motivated about something else. The social component is so underutilized. That’s key is surrounding yourself with these type of people to get you to, to run the creative juices in, in your mind, and to challenge your way of thinking. And that sucks sometimes because if you like me, I don’t like interacting with a ton of people. I like sitting at home. So we have to be selective in finding these people. And it’s a real investment in yourself to find positive, motivated individuals.

Speaker 1 (13:07):Those people who are, are, are going to be additive to you, that will help your creative process, create a process, plus social and interaction. That’s what’s gonna make motivation. Good. That’s what’s gonna be motivating for you. And I, I find myself now getting motivated about triathlon again, because I’m getting creative and how I’m gonna train for it. And I just was chatting with all these people about the cool things that they’re doing, and I’m learning from them about how they train for it. And now I’m actually really excited. I’m gonna beat the hell outta Larry when, when he tries to compete. But the, this is my strategy going forward. This is my, this is gonna be my motivation strategy is, you know, I have to create something. I have to try it and I gotta find other people to bounce the idea off of. And if they’re not gonna be additive to me, if I don’t surround myself with Eddie vets or Paul McCartney’s, then I gotta find those people and I have to be the Eddie Vetter or Paul McCartney to them. And it’s all to me, up to me. It’s my decision. It’s my, you know, when we talk about accountability, we talk about all these things. We ultimately lie in the bed that we make and the same thing goes for motivation. So good luck with that. I’m little late for my meeting, but you know what? You’re more important. You’re always more important. So have fun. Thank you for listening. And I look forward to talking to you soon. Thanks.

As we roll up on 100 episodes, I want to revisit one particular area that constantly rears its ugly head: ongoing change and the need to respond to stress. 

For context, the world is crazy, definitely stressful, outrageously distracting – and it’s pulling away from the focus you need on getting to where you need to be. Russia/Ukraine, pandemic, great resignation – the list goes on. I feel it, you feel it – it’s like a broken record – there is always “something.” 

That said, we also know that the only way to deal with macro change is to focus on micro you. (Provided there aren’t tanks outside your house … I get that). 

Two years ago I did a podcast that organized my thoughts on wellness – and I did it because I was frustrated with the product and messaging that was thrown around in the corporate world: judgmental theory on what you were “supposed” to do, without context, the why or anything tangible on how to get started. 

I revisit it today, because in two years I, myself, have changed, and while the framework remains the same, my experiences in chatting with other people about it and how I respond has shifted enormously. None of us are the same person we were two years ago. 

Lots to discuss, from physical to mental to social … but it’s an ongoing dialogue that needs to be had for you. Long story, short: wellness is bespoke to you, and requires full accountability and responsibility on your part. Nobody can make you well but yourself. 

Enjoy the show – I’m here to chat about it … and look forward to seeing you soon!

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Speaker 1 (00:00):3, 2, 1. Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for joining this week, episode 98, we’re almost at the, the triple digits number 98, and we’re gonna keep going and, and do many more. But as we roll up close to the hundredth episode, that I’m, we’ll try to do something special. We’ll see what comes out. I wanted to revisit something in particular, because I think it’s relevant today. And you hear me talk about it all the time. I guess this is almost like my shtick. Now my thing is about the never ending change and ongoing stress that comes with change. And, you know, we’re, we’re in the middle of a very dynamic time, which might be an understatement with lots of, you know, pandemic challenges, Russia, Ukraine, um, workplace is changing great resignation and everything. And, and, and the con with context today, the context between why I wanted to revisit wellness, which is what we’re talking about today is the world is crazy, immensely, stressful to the point where it’s ridiculously distracting.

Speaker 1 (01:09):Um, and it’s all pulling you away from what’s important today and where you want to be. And this is relevant. You know, this is obviously relevant to myself, you know, I’m going through it, I’m seeing it. And the people I’m interacting with people aren’t as responsive as they usually are. Um, and, and I would say it’s because we’re, you know, we’re tuned in, we’re tuned into all of this crazy stuff going on in the world. And, and how is that relevant to what we need to do today? The spiral of this is distracting me. I can’t get this done tomorrow that wasn’t done and now the other thing’s not getting done. And it, it snowballs into bigger things, all types of worry. We’ve got families to take care of. And all of this is, is a challenge to our in particular wellness. And if you, if you look at my previous time, I’ve talked about wellness.

Speaker 1 (01:54):I’ve talked about wellness a lot. If you listen to the episode for two years ago, it’s a big topic. And the reason I wanted to tackle wellness and I, I called it wellness organized. I did this two years ago. Um, I was frustrated with, I guess, I’ll call it the wellness product and the messaging that was out there. I didn’t really appreciate, uh, the way that it was framed, especially in the corporate world, I’d come out of the corporate world and, you know, doing the coaching thing and everyone telling you just do yoga and meditation. And it was very, very judgemental. I thought the wellness product was very judgemental in the way that you’re, it was very disingenuous. It was telling you all the things that you were supposed to be, and it was never telling you how it was never telling you how to do this stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:39):And, uh, and that was the big fall down. And so I, I needed to come up with some kind of framework I needed to organize what I actually thought about wellness. What did I actually need in the moment? Where did I need to focus? And what did wellness actually mean for me? So wellness is a massive topic, right? You’ve got mental wellness, you’ve got physical wellness, we’ve got all these things. My thought process on this led me to down a rabbit hole, right? I wrote the book, uh, I did the podcast, lots of coaching engagements and, and everything came out of it. And so I wanna revisit it because it’s not a onetime solution. Wellness is not a onetime solution. Wellness is this ongoing challenge. It’s an ongoing struggle. It’s an ongoing focus, whatever, but it changes because we change. And so I, I mean, I didn’t even listen to it, what I talked about before.

Speaker 1 (03:27):I kind of know what I talked about in terms of what wellness means and, and how to structure it. And it’s my three categories. And, uh, you’ve got your, your physical and your mental and your, your social, it spiritual it’s social, spiritual falls under mental. I’ll talk about that in a minute. Um, but, but now it’s time to really make it real for people because, uh, being a hundred episodes in, we’re talking about things like, as I reflect and I’ll reflect more on the a hundred episode, but things like imposter syndrome, things like communicating to the C-suite things like interpersonal dynamic and relationships and everything else, I’m gonna kick off this next century of episodes with experts that are gonna tell you how I’ve got a nutritionist coming on the show. I’ve got, uh, this team that have made this incredible app, uh, that I don’t wanna give away the title of it yet, because they’re gonna be coming on.

Speaker 1 (04:14):And I want them to talk about it, but it’s really on a, a mental health and accountability aspect, uh, which doesn’t doesn’t even really do it justice. It’s just, it’s it’s, I I’m really Ja really jazzed about it. I’ve got, uh, too sweet, the, the, the professional boxers coming back to talk about resilience. He’s coming back from, from a, from an injury and, and how he’s going to rebuild and, uh, all of that good stuff. So wellness, what, what it is is it, it really evolves, okay, what wellness than what you need in the moment continually evolves. And, and my wellness today is very different than what it was two years ago. And right now, I mean, I’m in a very different place. What I need is very different right now, I would argue my biggest focus is on social wellness. Two years in the pandemic, haven’t really been interacting.

Speaker 1 (05:01):The, these levers go up and now the past two years has been purely focused on mental, my mental wellness. What’s my, what’s my, you know, self-love aspect. What’s my belief system. What do I really believe? What does self-care actually mean? And, and what I do with my clients, and what I wanna do on this podcast hopefully is I hope I get people to think. And, and, you know, I, I keep calling it wellness. I wish I could come up with another word. I don’t know what it is. It’s, it’s, you know, when we hear wellness, we think of yoga and drinking, shakes, eating healthy bowls and kale salads and meditating, and yada, yada yada. And that may be right. That’s, that’s not where the focus should lie. I would argue it’s some of these are come components and how people respond to their challenge of finding themselves to be well, which is great.

Speaker 1 (05:47):Good for them. It’s the needs that they have. Um, yes, physical wellness is important, but it’s one of the three yoga may not be your solution for that. Uh, tofu in terms of diet is, is never a solution I can ever, ever, ever. Um, and we have to go beyond what other people are doing in order to find wellness for ourselves. Just why we have fad diets, why we have, you know, all of these things. It’s, it’s, um, we have to fill out what it is for ourselves and what I know people who eat once a day. I know other people who eat small meals throughout the day. I know other people who do intermittent fasting. I know other people will say, absolutely not inter intermittent fasting doesn’t work. And that’s, that’s crazy. Um, and, and so as a refresh, I wanna talk today about, about wellness.

Speaker 1 (06:36):And I wanna talk about what you’re thinking about and how to think about wellness and how to almost, you know, whether it’s meditation, if you wanna call that, you can call it whatever you want. Uh, but I want you to, to think through a dialogue on, on what do you need in the moment and, and how to do it, the, the three categories, and I will stand by this spiritual is not one of them. It’s physical meant and social. Those are your three categories that it’s almost like this, you know, the cup game with the little marble underneath, and you’re moving things around. And those are the three, right? It’s a trick game where you’re saying this lever goes up, this one comes down. Where’s the, where’s the shiny ball for today. Those are the three. And I, I specifically leave out spiritual because that’s spirituality is a mental exercise.

Speaker 1 (07:22):So it falls under mental. Okay. So I don’t, I, I think we’ve often ignored the social aspect to our detriment and it’s, it, it actually takes work. At least for me, it takes work. So, so let’s talk first. We’re gonna talk about physical, which we always gloss over. We all know the answers. We always gloss over it. We’re like, yep, we got it. We know what we’re supposed to do. Diet fitness sleep. Um, I’m gonna eat, right. I’m gonna work out and I’m gonna get some sleep. And yet we never do it. Um, but what we need to know about it, and perhaps it’s more of a, a reasoning as to why we do it. And why it’s so important is that your, your physical activity, your physical wellness, what you eat impacts your ability to think impacts your, your social relationships, eating too much.

Speaker 1 (08:06):Your body’s metabolizing constantly. So you don’t have the energy to think properly at work, which is why you never have a big sandwich or lunchtime in the office. And you’re just dead in the afternoon. Um, your gut is this living organism. That’s got bacteria in here that actually leads to cognitive ability. So the food you are eating is affecting your ability to think which affects the way that you think about yourself, which affects the way that you interact with other people, which affects the yada yada yada yada yada fixes, fitness and exercise drives oxygen to the brain. Um, your ability to interact with other people somewhat say, and some research shows that the way we feel about our weight and what our weight goes, impacts the people that we interact with. So your social communities are impacting how much you eat. The people we surround ourselves with.

Speaker 1 (08:50):You know, they they’ve linked obesity to our social networks. If we’re surrounded fat people, we’re more likely to be fat ourselves, which is crazy. You’re surrounded by smokers. You’re more likely to smoke yourself. And, and so the social impact, the physical impact, the mental impact, a lot of this, they all interact in this ven diagram of, of, of crazy thought. So from there, I’m not gonna tell I’ve got a nutritionist coming on. She’s gonna tell you all about the stuff you’re is to eat and everything else. And, and, but the thing is, we know, we know we’re not supposed to eat cupcakes every day for dinner. We know pizza and hamburgers and everything is an extreme rarity that we should be eating. And shouldn’t be, you know, a once a week thing Friday night pizza night is not a good idea. I would argue it’s too often because we’re eating garbage the rest of the week.

Speaker 1 (09:33):We still do Friday night pizza night. I love pizza. What can I say? But we know we, there’s an accountability aspect to wellness. We know what we’re supposed to eat, what we’re supposed to do. We know we’re supposed to work out. We know that we’re supposed to go to bed at a, at a reasonable time in order to get up early in the morning and, and tackle the day we just don’t do it. And we just put up our hands. We say, okay, guess we’re not gonna say fine. Okay, good. Then you can’t complain when something else doesn’t work out. Right. And, and I think this is the, the, the crux of what I, I think I really wanna get to with the wellness thing is we’re accountable for our wellness. Okay? Nobody else, nobody else. There’s no fad diet. That’s going to, to tell you, uh, what is supposed to work for you and everything.

Speaker 1 (10:18):It’s your responsibility to fully, you wanna do intermit intermittent, fasting, fine. You can do it. There is a right and a very wrong way to do it. You wanna do a paleo diet, great. There’s a right and a very wrong way to do it. You want to do Mediterranean diet great. There’s a right and a very wrong way to do it. And there is no shortcut. And so what we wanna do is we don’t wanna take the time to educate ourselves on what the proper thing to eat is what we need in the moment and what our body needs, because that’s too much work. Who’s got time for that. So we take something off the shelf and we drink a shake, and then that’s supposed to be it. And it doesn’t work. And then we complain that we’re so tired. We complain that we’re not getting sleep.

Speaker 1 (10:54):And we complain that we’re not, we can’t get motivated to go to the gym and yada, yada, yada, uh, it’s our own fault. Can’t blame anybody else, it’s you, it’s your problem. It’s you, it’s your fault. So let’s talk, let’s talk mental, um, from there, from the physical aspect, okay. We’ve got, we’ve got your, your physical, we’re gonna eat, right? We’re gonna, we’re gonna sleep well. We’re gonna work out every day. Uh, we then go to mental and the mental, the three categories of mental similarly, uh, there are three are self-love self-care and belief system, and it sounds really soft, but ignore it at your peril. And this is the one that I’ve been dealing with a lot. You know, I, I talked about my dark place in the middle of the pandemic. There was an episode on that. I, I talked out, uh, my challenges with, with drinking and, and struggling and, and all of that.

Speaker 1 (11:48):Um, we could talk about mental toughness, you know, in the context of today. And resilience is a big word and mental toughness, everything, all of that comes from understanding yourself. Okay. Oh, I just gotta be tough. I gotta rally. I gotta do all of this stuff. Mental wellness. Everyone’s got judgment on what you’re supposed to do, right. Oh, just love yourself. And everything will be fine. Okay. It doesn’t make sense. Right? What does that mean? Doesn’t mean anything, whatever you do has to be bespoke to you. And so when we start with self love, cuz I guess this is, you know, this is probably fundamental to, to, to mental wellness and you probably have to start with loving yourself before you can take care of yourself before you can really understand what you really believe. The we’re so quote that I always share is how can anybody be satisfied in life?

Speaker 1 (12:34):If they are not satisfied with the one person they can never be separated from, and it’s this philosophical thing, but, but we have to embrace our imperfections. Nobody’s perfect. Nobody, nobody has their together. No matter how much they tell it, they could be sitting in, you know, oh, I live on this island and everything’s great. And I, I have an Instagram channel and I’m an influencer and yada it’s for of right behind the scenes. They’re miserable human beings, trying to present a lifestyle that they don’t actually have. And, and we live in this Instagram reality, we’re impacted by everything else. And um, we recognize that no matter what we’re dealing with, everybody else is dealing with something similar, similar, but different. If that makes sense. Um, and we get knocked off, we get rattled all the time. Everybody gets rattled, we get knocked off our horse and sometimes we’re back up in a day.

Speaker 1 (13:26):Sometimes it takes a month or two. Um, but what gets us back is figuring out our value for lack of a better term, right? We have to start this dialogue. It comes from an in inner inner dialogue. It’s this ongoing process of what value am I bringing? And how do I actually realize and recognize that value and believe that value. I’ve got these people from the forgiving app. I said it forgi they’re coming on the show, um, about how forgiveness is, is, is a mental exercise. Uh, we have to believe it ourselves in order for us to get back and recognize our value and all of these things and find what we could control and do all of this work. We’re gonna talk more to them about it, but that’s ultimately what self-love is, is embracing and perfection. It’s not physical, right? Sometimes we have judgmental stuff, embrace it.

Speaker 1 (14:19):Okay. Do you have judgments fine. If you don’t want them, then address them and change it and embrace the fact that maybe you’re doing something you don’t want to do. That’s bravery. That’s where confidence comes from admitting that you have flaws that is fundamental to, to, to becoming courageous is recognizing it, boxing it, address, seeing it and moving forward. And we’re always going to have it. Patience is not one of my finest virtues. And I know that and I have, I do a lot of apologizing and I’m trying to fix it. I’m trying to help it. But you know what? I also love the fact that I’m impatient because I get done. And so there are good and negative things to this. So self love, or I’ll explore more about that with the, with the forgive people. But, um, that’s something to, you know, think about what, what imperfections do you have that you can embrace that aren’t just physical.

Speaker 1 (15:14):We all have physical ones too, right? We all wanna look better with, without a t-shirt at the beach. Um, but you know what, who cares? Who cares? So from that, we go to self-care, uh, what we need in the moment. And that’s sometimes it’s a nap. Uh, sometimes it’s less social media. Sometimes we just need to cut out a work and read a book I’m guilty of that. Uh, but part of this dialogue, when we figure out self-love and understanding who we are is figuring out what we need in the moment it’s listening, it’s questioning, it’s understanding where our insecurities come from, where our stress comes from. Um, we have to put a name on it. There’s an exercise for, for this is identify the insecurity, given a name so you can address sit, and you could do all of these things works for some people and may not work for others, but what’s causing your insecurity.

Speaker 1 (15:58):The imposter syndrome, um, is a significant one. And, and a lot of this comes from, uh, addressing the mental wellness of self love, self care and belief system and security with yourself. Belief system is the biggest one for me. And this it’s my favorite one because it’s so big and it’s, and this is where spiritual falls into. And the fundamental question of what do you believe? And this is, this will impact your ability to take good care of yourself. This will impact your ability to love yourself, much of our insecurity and challenges come from the fact that we don’t know what we believe. We’re defending something we say, when we don’t fully understand what it is that we’re saying, and we don’t take the time to do that. And when we don’t know what we believe, we bounce just from one idea to the next.

Speaker 1 (16:43):Uh, and there’s just, we’re not grounded. There’s no grounding and bouncing from one idea to the next. And, and previously, when I chatted about belief system, it was more on the idea, uh, um, that it allowed us to have good discussions in a non defensive manner, right? Things like politics, religion. I think I came out with it. Maybe it was a presidential election year. I don’t know, but in, or obviously it’s, it’s still relevant here, right? How can you have a belief system if you don’t fully understand the other side, right. You wanna say, I believe in God. Well then you have to understand how someone could not believe in God or vice versa. Right. And that’s fine. Right. And all of a sudden, when you understand both sides, you say, okay, I understand why someone would do that because I’ve fully thought it through it, but I don’t actually, I haven’t bought in.

Speaker 1 (17:26):Right. I don’t buy that fine, man. That’s cool. That’s at a certain point, you know, we’ve got science that brings up to a certain point and then we’ve got everything else up to another one. Um, doesn’t allow you to ignore facts and reasoning. And, and so that’s one, but today I, I would move beyond the ability to have deeper discussions. And I would say having a belief system gives you grounding, right? It gives you, it, it’s a mental health, self care and self-love exercise. That’s what a belief system is. Uh, it grounds us into something to hold onto when the world is going crazy. And when we fully understand what we believe in that moment and understand that a belief system will constantly change. It’s dynamic, the hope point of learning. We talk about belief and learning and all of this stuff that, that we’re supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (18:15):That means your belief. System’s going to change as you get more factual knowledge and you learn, then all of a sudden you say, all right, what can I deduce based on all of the information that I have. And do I really believe that? And we’re not aligning to a group of people and following whoever, just tell you to do it. We’re actually able to say, you know what? This is, you know, I do believe that this is a, a, a viable solution to whatever it is that we’re doing. Um, the ments, the, the, the, the anger and the arguments and the, the frustrations that we see everywhere are driven. I would argue you by misguided information and insecurity, and both of those are solved when you figure out your belief system and fully understand it. All right. If you’re gonna have a belief system, you get all the facts, understand the facts, understand what facts are, and then you address what, what shortcomings you have or, or what insecurities you have with it.

Speaker 1 (19:13):Um, that’s it, I mean, that’s, that’s mental health one on one, and it takes a ton. You probably need help with that. Right? You might need a, a therapist. You certainly need a friend, uh, and, and find someone curious like you who can have these types of discussions where there’s no, almost like in a, this weird Socrates way where you just kind of have the discussion, not to come to, to a solution, but to hash out what it is. You know, why would I believe that versus this? Oh, that’s interesting. Okay. Let me go back and think about it. Okay, cool. Um, and that’s what I do on my runs. I do a lot of that kind of full, I have full Lincoln Douglas debates in my head while I run, because I’m, you know, I’m insane. And that, that’s just what I do. Uh, so that’s physical and mental.

Speaker 1 (19:59):Okay. And I’m going long, but, but this is, you know, I, it’s just important. Okay. Just from the people I’m talking to and what people are struggling with, um, it’s relevant and it’s, it’s, it’s very important. So the third aspect is social, and this is my most important right now, my mental is ongoing. My physical is ongoing. Right, right. I, I made focused attempts at that, uh, and continued to do it. Um, but social is, and, and I’m realizing how important social is now. You know, we talk about it, but coming outta the pandemic, I’m starting to see a lot more people I’m able to interact more. The, uh, we just did that, run up a Martha’s vineyard. And it was like a real shock to my system of how much fun we had. And, and so the, the social aspect has three categories as well.

Speaker 1 (20:46):You need a support system, micro interactions and new people. You have to meet newbies, you need new perspectives. And so when I think about social, the support systems, who are your people, and if you think about, if you had to name five people, and I’ve talked about your personal board of directors, and, and we could do that, sometimes it’s family, sometimes it’s, uh, friends and, and whatever. And sometimes it’s not, maybe it’s, you know, some other category completely, maybe it’s people on a team or whatever. Um, the, the, this helps mental as well, right? From a motivation perspective, from a venting perspective, to an accomplishment perspective, we talked before about, you know, our diets and while we’re eating, we we’re, we’re reflective of the people around us and we’re reflective of our support system. And it’s fundamental to our overall wellness, from a mental perspective, we’re able to vent, we’re able to be motivated.

Speaker 1 (21:42):We’re able to talk about our challenges. We’re able to articulate our belief system and question our belief system in a safe place. We all, uh, you know, we find these people have absolutely zero judgment. It’s a requirement to find a good support system. And that’s difficult for some people. And whether you’re introverted or not, it’s introversion is irrelevant. Right? We talk about introversion all the time. We get my energy from being alone and everything else, that’s fine. Right? I’m introverted. I get it. Sometimes I need to turn the world off. But at the same time, that doesn’t mean you can’t have social interaction some of the time. And, and when we figure out who our support system is, and, and who we’re socially surrounding ourselves with and who we’re, where we’re incorporating into that. Uh, and, and we get energy, we may get from being alone, but you also get energy from the people around you.

Speaker 1 (22:36):And that’s a lever. It’s a percentage thing. It’s a balanced thing. Some people like more of one versus the other, but you need both. You absolutely need both. You can be the most extroverted person in the world. Love a big crowd. Sometimes though you have to be by yourself. You have to answer the questions in your head. And a lot of extroverted people had real trouble with that. During the pandemic introvert, you have to get out, right. You can’t just live in your head. It’s a challenging place to be. It’s a long place to be, but we need those people who we can implicitly trust. We need those people who can give us good counsel. Uh, we need to be that person, you know, for other people as well, right? It goes two ways. And, and we get mental benefit and value out of that.

Speaker 1 (23:16):So you are part of a support system for somebody else as well. Doesn’t just go one way, right? We don’t just take it from other people and then just leave them to their, to their own devices. It’s a, it’s a give and take kind of relationship economic, uh, aspect. So, so no matter how you frame your social system, you do need a support system in a place from there. The other two, uh, are less involved, but just almost like a check the box one is we need to interact micro interactions. We need to feel part of a bigger world. And it’s the librarian. It’s the bus driver. It’s the people on the train. It’s, whatever it is. Um, we need to recognize that there are other people in this world and that we’re part of something bigger. And there is a perspective beyond us. Often times when things get stressful, we pull our mindset completely down into this really incredibly narrow focus, where we’re unable to see the forest for the trees and micro interactions pulls us out to recognize that there is something bigger than us in this world.

Speaker 1 (24:22):And that’s important. It’s important. It’s, it’s important for the perspective. It’s important for the mentality of this two shall pass there’s time. We’ve got everything. It may take us a week. It may take us a month, but there are other people in this world. The world will go on. We are on a pebble going through space. And you know what your inability to get a salad for lunch is really kind of irrelevant. Um, and most of our problems are, are extremely irrelevant. And, and this perspective on micro interactions and bigger people allows us to focus on what’s important. Okay? So that’s that the other one is we need new experiences and we need to meet new people, not from a micro interaction perspective, right? And this is one of the benefits going back to the office is to see people and, and do all of that.

Speaker 1 (25:04):Um, one of my struggles and this I started working for moment eight years ago, was no social interaction. And, and micro interactions were a big part of it. I had to go to the library to work. I had to go work outta the coffee shop. I had to force myself to go into the city. I’m doing that again. Now we also need new perspectives. How are you meeting new people? Because when you get into this echo chamber of the same people over and over, you can lose perspective. And so we need new ideas. We need different perspectives to challenge that belief system that we already have to challenge and question things with our support system to, to just learn fundamental fricking manners, to say that somebody has a different idea than I than I do. And how do I appropriately respond to that? We need new perspectives need to, to challenge our thinking all the time.

Speaker 1 (25:52):This is part of learning. I’ve said it always kids love life because kids are constantly learning. Adults are miserable, cuz they’re supposed to have all the answers. When you go around telling everybody you have all the answers. That’s why everyone’s so angry. Flip that around and start asking questions from the other side, be curious and say, wow, this is amazing. Now they may be, you know, know dumb asses, right? A lot of the people are, but, um, I get it. I understand it, but we still have to find, there are so many people in this world. Uh, it’s, it’s so important to get these different perspectives and to get you thinking about something different. So as, as we look to continue and develop in 2022, as I look to, uh, uh, another a hundred episodes, which I’ll do a real hundred hundredth episode one, um, to talk about it, but this is everything, no matter what’s going on in the world.

Speaker 1 (26:37):Now look, I, I get it right. A war comes to your front step. You’ve got some pretty impressive challenges, but I’m talking in part mostly to people in the United States, people in Ireland, those are my two biggest kind of listeners. Um, and so from the perspective of what we’re fortunate enough, fortunate enough to only be dealing with there is a world to status. We have to focus on what we can do in the moment. What are the decisions we can do in the moment to make sure that we are addressing everything that we can actually control. Okay. By focusing on you, by focusing on PHY physical, mental, social, these are the things that we can actually control. When we talk about what can you control and how do you relieve stress into all of that? Everything else will fall into place, work, ache, focus on you.

Speaker 1 (27:23):And what you can can do home is bed week at home, focus on you and what you can do. Maybe it’s a run. Maybe it’s some pushups, maybe it’s, you know, changing what you’re eating. Maybe it’s going to bed early. What I love all about this. And I, I said this a minute ago, we lie in the bed we make, okay, your wellness is up to you. There is an accountability aspect. There’s a responsibility aspect. You have to do this work. And when we’re so busy focusing attention on somebody else or some other challenge or some theoretical thing it’s taking away from what’s best for us. And the only way we can benefit the world, the only way we can actually impact the people around us in a positive is by focusing on making ourselves the best possible person we can be. We lie in the bed we make, and sometimes someone the bed, but then you, it’s up to you to clean your sheets and remake that bed.

Speaker 1 (28:20):It’s kind of a gross analogy, but it’s true, right? It’s up to us to make our bed and that’s it. And that’s, that’s what it comes down to for wellness. So thank you for listening. I hope this is helpful. I’m going to get into really tactical stuff over the next few, few episodes. Um, because I, I, I want this to be, to be real. And I want people to, to think about this and challenge it. And you know, there are exercises you could do. If you want free exercises, send me a note. I’ll send you some exercises to do, uh, give me a call and, and we can chat it through whatever it is. Uh, but it’s a stressful time and it’s not even an election year. Holy cow, this is gonna be like, it’s gonna be ugly in about a year. It’s gonna get really ugly. Um, and I, I, I mean that sincerely. So as we look ahead to the future, the time to focus on you is right now. So think about yourself, be well, uh, challenge yourself in really, really good ways. And as always, I’m here to help. So thank you for listening. I hope to talk to you soon. Bye.

Food, diet, and nutrition are always difficult topics to cover – because everyone appears to be an expert. What shocks me is that all of the experts have very different solutions to what ails us. Thanks to marketing and processing and plain old deliciousness of bad food – we all have an issue with what we consume. And I’m tired of conflicting information. 

So, this being National Nutrition Month, I decided to get a real expert. Not a person who reads an article and can repeat it; not a person who did it 40 years ago and hasn’t kept up with the times; but a person who lives and breathes it constantly. 

Marissa is a pro – and what I really appreciate about her work is that it’s more than just what nutrition is on your plate. Marissa is focused on the whole person – and what nutrition can mean beyond food, and brings a coaching mentality (others first!) to the table to make it really work. 

The idea of nutrition and food as self-care is fundamental – and far beyond what many others will preach. Often we separate the physical (our diet) from the mental (what we need for our mental wellbeing) – but they are intertwined far more than we realize (and science continues to uncover more). 

I want to say that Marissa cuts the BS out of it, which she does, but she does it in such a nice and caring way that BS is too strong a word. She takes the nonsense out of nutrition – and sets you up for a good way to approach what you need. I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed chatting with her!

For more information on Marissa: 

Contact information: mwinters358@gmail.com; marissa.winters@hmhn.orgLinkedin: Marissa Winters, MA RDN NBC-HWCHackensack Meridian Health: search “Integrative Health”The Center for Conscious CaregivingInstagram:@centerforconsciouscaregiving (TCFCC)Facebook: The Center for Conscious Caregiving

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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast

Okay. 3, 2, 1. Welcome to bellweather. Thank you for joining this week. We have a phenomenal guest. If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a long time, you know, that, you know, just last week I had the big shtick on wellness and we, we reorganize wellness. We talk about wellness all the time on this has these different components. One of the frustrating things I have with talking about wellness is there’s a lot about the, what needs to happen, less on the how. And I always like to bring in experts to talk about these types of things. And, and I do a lot of work in the background. You don’t necessarily see it, you see it when they come, but we find the really good people that are gonna give you really good, good knowledge. And that’s what we’re gonna do today. A lot of people, when we talk about physical wellness, you talk about your diet, your fitness, your sleep.

Speaker 1 (00:55):

And if you read the book, you know, we talked about how much, what you eat impacts your ability to think about things and, and your cognitive ability. And, and there’s this kind of big, whole circle of everything thing that, that we want to talk about today. I brought in, uh, an integrative nutritionist. She’s brilliant. She knows exactly everything, uh, that we want to learn because nutrition is such a big topic. And it’s so big. It’s so confusing. Everybody seems to be an expert when they’re not, they have little context as to what you need, and we get confused trying to find whatever the fad diet is, or I want a short term thing. And, and so let’s just cut the, cut the BS, and let’s get to, to an expert. And, and that’s why we have Marisa winter here. So Marisa, thank you for joining us on BAA, the hub. Please tell us about yourself and then let’s get right into it.

Speaker 2 (01:46):

Well, thank you so much for having me. I’m, uh, thrilled to be here. I am an integrative nutritionist. I’m a registered dietician nutritionist. I have a master’s in holistic health from Georgian court in good old Lakewood, New Jersey. Um, and I am also a certified board certified health and wellness coach right now. I’m working with Hackensack, Meridian, integrative health, and wellness. So I do have a clinical practice with that group, um, which is an amazing learning experience, terrific bunch of people, a wonderful team. And, um, I also do a lot of work with the center for conscious caregiving, which is more of the coaching end of it.

Speaker 1 (02:29):

Excellent. And so when we, now this being, I should have just said, we’re kicking this off a national nutrition month. So this is, you know, the perfect time to have this discussion. What I like about you and, and what we’ve talked about before, you know, before we actually recorded, this is there’s a balance between what’s factual, good information regarding Nutri, but then also the coaching people on how to get there. So talk to me a little bit about, you know, you say it’s ultimately about self-care, but give me a little bit of your philosophy on nutrition and how we should be thinking about nutrition and, and getting our, our heads in the right place before we really talk about the house and everything else.

Speaker 2 (03:09):

That’s, that’s a, it’s a great segue in, um, I think what has happened and where a lot of the noise and the confusion comes in is that over the last, I don’t know, 20 years, maybe probably a little bit longer, most of the nutrition research has focused on individual nutrients. It’s all about vitamin D or whatever the nutrient of the day is. Right. And the reality is that that re way of looking at things doesn’t necessarily serve us. It’s great for the science aspect, but we eat food. So we tend to think of things when we read about nutrition, 10 power foods that will change your life and all that stuff. And, and, you know, let’s face it, it tho that’s, it’s not that bowl, you are eating food and you’re putting it into a system. So I always look at it like, you know, the body, instead of being a, a mechanistic type of, uh, paradigm, right?

Speaker 2 (04:14):

So let’s just say like, I hurt my shoulders. So now I go get my shoulder repaired. I have clogged. Our are reason my heart. And so now I have a workaround. I can get a bypass, right? In reality, we’re not machines. We’re more like gardens. And, and that’s how I kind of propose it to a lot of my patients is you’ve gotta look at the whole thing. So you can’t just look at an individual nutrient and then target the foods that provide that nutrient. Because what we know also is that eating patterns are really the thing that create health and wellbeing in people. It’s not that, you know, your macros are aligned it’s that you are eating food that is nourishing, you’re eating, uh, a compliment, a variety, a balance. You know, you are giving yourself nutrients together because we know there’s a synergistic effect in nutrients, right? So if you eat something orange with something green, it’s gonna work better. So two plus two equals five. Um, so it’s, it’s shifting more into the mindset of how am I gonna take care of myself? And what’s the broader picture, like pull back the lens a little bit, versus focusing so much on the nuts and bolts and getting it right. And

Speaker 1 (05:37):

I like, and I don’t like the garden analogy. I like the garden analogy because well, people don’t eyes, is that a garden doesn’t just happen when you plant the seeds. It happens throughout the year, even in the off season and everything else. Right. What I don’t like about that analogy is I tried to do that with my daughter and it was an absolute disaster. So figuring out the garden is, uh, and maybe that’s my segue into the question is how much do we have to learn in terms of figuring out these things that pair well together? You said the orange and the green pairing well is really good. Figuring out the nutrients that we actually need. How much education is there? Is there a shortcut that people can take? Is there, you know, because when we, the macro thing is confusing for some people, right? What’s really a car versus, you know, you got your, your carbs, your proteins, you know, all of these different things. And I know you’re looking at your macros and people, then you’re, they’re counting their calories, but how do calories relate to macros? And so there’s a process to it and right. And it’s, it’s frustrating. So where do you begin to edgy yourself to find out what’s best for you?

Speaker 2 (06:41):

So first you stop trying so hard because there are a thousand ways to get it right. It’s really a matter of, of eating food. And this has become a very popular mantra. And I, and I really, um, like Michael pollen with his little mantra about eat food, not too much, mostly plants, those are really simple things. Um, the point with the garden is that it’s all interrelated and there are seasons. There are times where you are going to be craving salads, and there are gonna be times where you’re just done with salads and you want something warming. Okay. So Irish

Speaker 1 (07:22):

Stew. So that’s a good Irish stew,

Speaker 2 (07:24):

A good Irish Guinness stew. This is the month for it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and it’s acknowledging that and recognizing that because your body is giving you messages all the time, it’s just, we’re not really paying a whole lot of attention. We’re trying to whip it into submission or force it into doing something and deferring our own body’s wisdom and needs to some expert. Right. And so it really is quite simple, eat food, not a food like substance eat, something that looks the way it’s found in nature, or so an apple versus apple sauce versus apple chips. Right. Right. So there’s different levels of processing and not all of them are bad, but really it boils down to common sense to a large extent, too. Like, you know, that those potato chips are not the same as a potato. Come on, be honest, but they do taste, you

Speaker 1 (08:22):

Know, it, they do taste better.

Speaker 2 (08:23):

They taste, they taste good in certain circumstances. And there’s no reason why you can’t have them. Right. So again, it’s just, what do you wanna do with yourself? What are you, what are you feeding, I guess is really the, the key question. Are you feeding wellbeing? Are you feeding a heartbreak? Are you feeding a frustrating day? What are you feeding? And is it working right? So I guess there’s a ton of shortcuts. None of them are actually going to be sustainable.

Speaker 1 (08:55):

Well, it sounds, it sounds like a lot of it is, is more of a psychological, the way that you’ve just, you’ve just presented. It is, you know, what are you feeding? It’s almost, um, you know, why do you eat, right? What is nourishment? And some people think about it as fuel for, you know, your machine. Other people would say, it’s just nourishment so that you could do the things you want to do. Um, is this more of a learning process for people to, to reframe how they think about food? Which sounds kind of silly when you think about it, you know, why do you eat food? It’s not just to live, but there’s actually, it serves a purpose for you to do other things. Is this just, is that how we should be thinking about, about food and nutrition and nourish meant and all of the, the other good words.

Speaker 2 (09:38):

I honestly think that we have a lack of mindfulness right now, and there is a place for it in everything we do. And that doesn’t mean that you have to, you know, agonize over, what’s the best thing and, and chew your food 50 times and all that stuff. Um, but it is, I think, important. And I think it is serving to each person to figure out, yeah, what is it that I am trying to get? Cuz sometimes food is fuel. I mean, it’s always fuel. It’s also information. It tells your cells what to do. Right? Um, it, it has a whole gamut of potential. So if you are just grabbing something because you’re so hungry, you can’t even think straight, then you’re just filling the hole and you’re not gonna make a good decision. So you’re not gonna support your wellbeing. So I think it’s really important to start out at the beginning of the day, what is it that I need to accomplish?

Speaker 2 (10:38):

What is it that I am trying to get to? How do I wanna feel? It always boils down to how do I wanna feel? Because that’s what sets your intention. Okay. And so if I want, if I know that I have a day, that’s gonna go off the rails potentially because I have patients are stacked up and then I have home responsibilities and all that stuff. I have to be able to say, okay, I need to optimize what I’m giving myself. I need to build in the time. So that as I consume it, it’s being done, uh, digested in a way that is able to access the nutrients that I’m giving myself. Right? Because if we’re eating in the car and if we’re eating while we’re working, or if we’re eating while watching the news, if you are not eating in a relaxed state, you are not digesting that food. It is not being you the way you think it is because digestion is a, is a function of a relaxed state. So, and I, and this is kind of like taking this topic off in a little

Speaker 1 (11:48):

Bit. Yeah. But that’s, I mean, when I think about of a intentionality, um, is, is all about individual focus. It’s about the inner dialogue. It’s about what do I need now? It’s about being in control of yourself. And a lot of what we talk about on the podcast and everything else is you’re ultimately responsible for the bed you lion, right. Whatever it is. And, and that’s it. And right. And we need to sometimes re revisit the way we’re having these types of conversations with ourselves. What do I actually need? And, and why am I doing what I’m doing? And, um, where we’re going to be in six months is a result of the decisions we’re making today. And it’s right. And that’s all, you know, intentionally what nourishes me and that answer could be different for every, for anybody.

Speaker 2 (12:32):

Exactly. And at different times, you know, there’s a time where those potato chips, those are fine. That brownie, it’s fine very often, but it’s an 80, 20, or a 90 10. And that, but that’s where that question comes in. Then what am I feeding? Right. If I’m going for the brownie and I’m not paying attention to, I, I want this brownie, I just see it. And I want it because it’s been a really long day and you know, everything went wrong and that person yelled at me and I missed my deadline and blah, blah, blah, whatever that story is. And then you see that brownie and that brownie is like comfort Sweetness. It’s um, sweetness now. And then you eat the brownie and you’re doing it standing up over the sink or over the garbage PA. Right. I

Speaker 1 (13:20):

Feel like you’re in our kitchen watching me at like nine o’clock at night.

Speaker 2 (13:23):

I’m in, I’m in my kitchen. This is, this is not abnormal. This is, this is why I have job. So I mean, it really boils down to taking that pause and saying, okay, what am I feeding? Yeah. Am I, and if the brownie is what’s gonna nourish your soul right now, then put the thing on a plate, sit down and savor that brownie. And then you’re not gonna regret it. But if you are just stuffing your emotions, we call it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:55):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:56):

Right. So you’re just covering them over with food. That’s not gonna get you where you wanna go. That’s gonna start the whole, I can’t believe I did that. Why do I do that? I’m no, you know, and you start the whole story thing and you wind up shooting yourself in the foot. So being able to take a pause, being able to just take that moment, where am I right now? Am I in a stress state? Cuz if I’m eating in a stress state, that’s not gonna end well. So you know, it, it really is more complex and yet simple.

Speaker 1 (14:33):

So it’s it. But it’s also hard, right? So if we were to think about, yeah,

Speaker 2 (14:37):

It’s not easy,

Speaker 1 (14:37):

It’s not easy. It’s very simple, but it may not be,

Speaker 2 (14:39):

It’s simple, but it’s not easy. So

Speaker 1 (14:40):

How do you know, how do you do that? Right. Because you know what, in theory, as I look at that plate of brownies and say, you know what, I know I’m gonna eat brownies, right? There’s just no way I’m not gonna do it. I shouldn’t try to pretend it. And then I’m gonna regret and I’m gonna hate, you know, all of those things. So I love the idea of, you know, I’m gonna own this brownie, sit down at the table, I’m gonna eat this brown. I’m gonna enjoy this brownie. Um, is that, I mean, is that a strategy that works for people? Is there something else to, to kind of change the mentality? How, how, or you could just shove it in your mouth and be like, yeah, I, I ate the brownie, so it’s hard to be intentional sometimes, but maybe the question is when you’re in a stress state, it’s extremely difficult to be intentional, right? What it is beyond just food, your stress to work, is it to be intentional with just sending a proper email when you are stressed at home, it’s difficult to be intentional with the kids. It’s difficult to do all of these things. How do we coach people to be intentional when they’re in that stress moment, brownie in hand, on the precipice of, of regret, how do we get have people to just do that pause? Is there a strategy for that?

Speaker 2 (15:55):

There’s a bunch of strategies for it, but I, and I think part of it is the beauty of mindset and you’re, you actually hit on something perfectly because when you’re in that stress state, you know, you know that the frontal lobes go off that critical thinking goes off. That strategizing goes off and you are in a reactive state. One of the simplest ways to get yourself off or back away from the precipice is using breath. So I will tell my, my patients and I’ll tell my clients, if you can get yourself into a deep breath for round 1, 2, 3 minutes, right? If, if you can activate the vagus nerve, if you can bring yourself down off that edge, right. That can be very helpful in starting to shift that tide, then you can actually make a choice versus react to a situation. Right? The other thing, like there are a lot of little techniques.

Speaker 2 (16:52):

Um, we use emotional freedom technique, which is also known as tapping. Okay. That can be super helpful in bringing down the charge from the emotions in the body. Right. Um, so that can be helpful. Just I’ll teach people tapping. It’s super easy to learn right now. There’s a, a tapping world summit. You can find a lunch of, um, videos on YouTube for it. It’s got excellent, excellent research, backing it up, works quite well with taking people down off the edge. Um, but the thing that I’ll always stress to my patients and my clients is to get very, very clear on what you want because, and, and you never want what you think you want, right? You always want a feeling. We think that if I lose the 10 pounds or if I get the car or if I have the job or whatever it is, that’s, that’s, what’s, I want that I’ll feel better.

Speaker 2 (17:52):

My life will come into alignment. Right. And for, for me in the health and wellness field, a lot of it has to do with body image and weight. So if I have this weight or if I can, you know, get shreded or whatever, right. Then it, things are gonna be okay, that’s so you’re hooking your wagon to the wrong thing, because it’s not that external desire, that condition it’s really the feeling that you’re trying to get to. So I’m trying to feel comfortable in my clothes. I’m trying to feel energetic. I’m trying to feel worthy or attractive or whatever it takes work to get to that space. That’s deep stuff. But when we get there, when you have a very clear picture of the quality of life that you wanna embody, that becomes very motivating. And then it becomes much simpler to say, well, is this gonna bring me closer or is this going to pull me away?

Speaker 2 (18:56):

Right. And so I tell people, you know, do a vision board, write it down, get very clear on what you want and then smack it all over your house, stick it on your mirror, put it on your phone, stick it on the fridge. Slide happen on the pan of brownies, because that’s gonna give you a little bump and you’re gonna say like, okay, wait. Um, and when you’re really on the edge and you really, really, really need the brownie. My favorite trick is the three bite rule because research has shown that the first three bites of any food are the most pleasurable. So you’ve got like a diminishing marginal returns going down. Right? And so if that brownie is screaming, your name then have the brownie, but portion out three bites of it. And again, sit down, savor every bite and then have a nice drink of water. And, and you’re done cuz now you’ve maximized your pleasure. Three bites of anything. And you know, we’re talking like three bites. Well

Speaker 1 (20:00):

That’s what my head was going. Yeah. I take a good bite. Um,

Speaker 1 (20:06):

I like what you said there about, you know, a lot of these things and we’ll talk about weight loss. When, when you talk about nutrition, you have to talk about weight loss because I feel like that’s why most people would probably tune into this is, you know, I wanna lose a couple pounds here. I wanna do that. Can’t keep it off. Right. It’s this kind of cycle of ongoing and the question of why do you actually wanna lose the weight? Right. I wanna look better without a shirt at the beach. Well, that doesn’t actually matter because you’re dealing with, with an insecurity. So losing the weight, doesn’t actually address the internally, looking for external validation on something internally that you need to figure out, is this the same with nutrition? I mean, how do we get people to really they’re right out their vision board. And it’s all externally focused, intrinsically motivating, kind of, I want people to, uh, like me better or desire me more or whatever that is. But ultimately that’s your responsibility, right? And it’s not losing weight, but it’s, you know, how are you interacting with people? And it may not be your physical versioning of yourself, but how you actually treat people. How do you get people to think beyond? I just wanna lose weight into the why and what’s, what’s a good enough. Why?

Speaker 2 (21:17):

Well, the good enough, why is whatever’s really gonna motivate you, but, but that’s something that I do a lot with the coaching practice. And there’s a whole process that we use because it is not as easy as it one had done. You know, that we’re just built to self sabotage because we, we don’t like change. And once you start to initiate a change, everything starts to get in your way. Right? Um, the bottom line is what people really want is a quality of life. You’re not solving a problem. You are bringing a quality of life into your life. So you’re moving towards something you want, rather than moving away from something you don’t want. And this, this culture is very, very problem solving oriented. We can fix this, right. And it’s not so much about fixing it as it is about creating what you want.

Speaker 2 (22:13):

So yes, you wanna go to the beach and look good with your shirt off. Okay. Why? Because I wanna feel comfortable. I wanna feel confident, right? Just what you were saying. Once you start to define that, then the vision board does not become external. It becomes more supportive of that internal state of being. And, and one thing that, that I do that we do is continually bring people back to that, right? Because it needs to be a re a reminder all the time, right? Because problem solving is a default setting. And if all you’re doing is looking for problems to solve, you’re gonna find lots of problems to solve. That’s fine. But the quality of your life then is not going to improve for any long term sustainable way. So it’s emphasizing that quality and that quality is going to change over time. It’s not like, oh, I’m gonna be confident.

Speaker 2 (23:14):

And then, okay, now we’re static cuz we’re not static. We’re never static. So it will be doing those things that allow you to know yourself as a confident person. Okay. So maybe that means that I lift weights because I know that when I have nice muscle definition, I feel better about myself and that’s that enhances my confidence. Maybe I increase my hydration. Maybe I start to go to bed at a reasonable hour so that I have enough sleep so that I’m not dragging my tail, you know, three blocks behind the rest of me trying to get up to speed. So it’s defining that quality that you really, really want and choosing one, cuz we all have a bunch of ’em. So just choose one, got a

Speaker 1 (24:01):

Laundry list.

Speaker 2 (24:02):

What is it

Speaker 1 (24:03):

Got a laundry list,

Speaker 2 (24:05):

Right? But you don’t need to do it all at once. So pick one and then figure out what, what that’s gonna look like in your life.

Speaker 1 (24:17):

And, and you become a different person once you make that change and you’re gonna make different decisions at that point and everything else is that where most people you think go wrong. And when they’re trying to lose weight is they don’t really have the perspective on how either, how long it’s going to take or what lifestyle change really means or, or any of these. Because I feel like, again, it’s simple, it’s all simple. We know what we’re supposed to do yet. We just don’t do it. We know what we want, but we just don’t properly articulate it. Are these the know how do you commit to a lifestyle change and stay motivated in that lifestyle change? Because if you eat what you’re supposed to eat, you’re going to lose weight. Your body naturally figures it out. Right? So it’s not about this crash course thing, but it’s an ongoing time. How do you stay motivated to stick, to say this is the right lifestyle choice and change that I’ve made even though not seeing immediate results. How long does it take? And I don’t really, I mean, I guess it’s different for everybody, of course. But how do you, how do you, I guess keep perspective on a, on a lifestyle change?

Speaker 2 (25:20):

Well, I mean, that’s the beauty of mindset, right? So if you’ve decided that I want this quality, this is how I want my life to look. And it’s not just saying I wanna be more competent. It’s it’s really fleshing out what that looks like, how I’ll move through my day, what my relationships are going to con consist of. Right? Once that mindset’s there, then you’re going beyond the short term because, and that’s kind of, you’re in the phase of the garden, right? You’re starting to, and you may not see a result for a while. I have people all the times come in and you know, I’ve been doing this for two weeks. I’ve been doing, doing this for two weeks and I’ve only lost a pound. It’s like, dude, that’s exactly what you should be doing. That’s fine. That’s, that’s perfect. You know, because we really want that quick fix.

Speaker 2 (26:16):

And that’s telling that’s my signal that, okay, we need to really work on bringing you along. We need to work on, you know, where the resistance is, where the obstacle is, what’s getting in your way to shifting out of the problem solving because now you’re still in problem solving. You’ve just defaulted and it feels really comfortable. And you probably don’t even notice it because we’re so used to problem solving. But in order to do a lifestyle change and make it sustainable, it’s, it’s a longer vision. And it’s having that vision. This is what my life is going to look like. You know? So, so if you’re gonna climb Everest, you’re not just gonna, you know, sit there and look at the peak. You gotta look at what’s exactly in front of you and you’re gonna do each step. Right. And we have to address. Then what’s gonna get in the way of each step because there’s, there’s resistances that you’re going to put up.

Speaker 2 (27:14):

That we’re all gonna put up because it’s change. And we know that. So it’s being able to recognize it and strategize about it and figure out, well, this is where I’m, I’m tripping myself up, cuz it’s not about eating less and working out harder all the, all the time. Once you get to a certain point, it really isn’t about just eating less. I have some people who don’t understand why they’re losing, they’re not losing weight because they’re not eating enough. Right. And so that works to get you as well. And it becomes this panicky sense of I can’t get it. I can’t get it or I get it, but it, you know, it won’t stick. Right? And so it’s, it’s the mindset of the longer term. What’s the vision? What do you want for yourself? Where are you going?

Speaker 1 (28:01):

I like the, the framing of rather than moving away from something and moving towards something, right? I’m not moving away from being 300 pounds. I’m moving towards whatever it is that I’ve outlined that I actually want to go to when we do that, No matter our best intentions, no matter our vision board, we get five days in, we get two weeks in and we’ll sabot ourselves. Why do we do that? Or how do you not

Speaker 2 (28:31):

Do that is what we call. That’s what we call a resistance and something will come up because it is a change you are. But again, it’s a long term thing. So why are we doing it? Well, there’s probably a million reasons cuz there’s any number of possibilities. That’s your personal bugaboo, right? It’s recognizing it for what it is though. You know, maybe it’s unprocessed emotions. Maybe it’s terrible boundaries. Maybe it’s maybe it’s like, you really have a knowledge deficit about what you should be eating because that happens too. There is, as you mentioned in the, the very beginning, there’s a lot of information out there and everybody’s an expert, everybody’s an expert cuz everybody eats and everybody eats multiple times a day. Right. And food processors have healthified things and put little health halos on things and it’s marketed well and it sounds like it would make sense and it does taste good. And anyway, so the bottom line is though that being able to recognize where you’re hanging yourself up, where you’re undermining yourself, who is that little voice? That’s I mean, my favorite is the one that says, okay, now I’ve committed to make this change. I’ll do it on Monday. Right,

Speaker 2 (29:49):

Right. Because you feel really good about that. I’ve committed.

Speaker 1 (29:52):

I’ll do it later.

Speaker 2 (29:54):

Yeah. Right. Right. And then Monday is the following Monday and the following Monday. And, and I can’t even tell you how many Mondays have been before we started to make those changes. So I think part of what’s helpful with it is having somebody like a coach, like a, someone who can help you say, you know, you’re doing that thing you do. And maybe we ought, think about a different way. Look, look for a different path because if this isn’t working and that means that you’re going to have to make peace with the fact that you’re going to be uncomfortable for a while.

Speaker 1 (30:31):

Right. There’s no shortcut. It’s not necessarily in. Right.

Speaker 2 (30:34):

Yeah. Right. But that space is going to get you where you want to be and know where you wanna be because you put the time in to really clarify and define it and you’ve, you’ve made it something real. And now you’re taking that momentum. And when you hit those roadblock, it often means that you are moving forward. Cuz if you’re sitting still, you’re not banging into any road blocks, you’re not noticing the obstacles that are just waiting to get you right. That are waiting to be addressed. I should say, not get you. Okay. So, so that’s also a sign that you are making progress. It’s finding your best way. It

Speaker 1 (31:22):

Saying when I was studying to be a coach, when they said, if the client ain’t lifting the client, ain’t shifting. So if they’re not doing the work they’re not moving. And that

Speaker 2 (31:30):

Exactly. I love it. Love it. That’s great. Now

Speaker 1 (31:32):

Was here, you know, I guess people are gonna take this and they’re gonna say yes, because everything you’re saying is spot on. Right. Which we knew, which we knew was gonna happen. We, we knew that was gonna happen. And they’re going to be motivated to start with something and say, you know what, I’m gonna, maybe I’ll write my vision board this weekend or maybe I’ll do this. Sometimes it’s not about hearing the right things. It’s also knowing what to ignore. Right. And so, you know, they’re gonna leave this and then they’re gonna Google for other ideas and they’re gonna go down into a rabbit hole. What advice do you have for people that are swinging from FA to fad who wanna just get started, who are jumping through to say, you know what, I’ll drink this in the morning and then I’ll do this. And um, you know, how do they do they have to just kind of create their profile and say anything that doesn’t fit into this shed. It is there, you know, how do we know what to ignore and, and the context of so much noise?

Speaker 2 (32:28):

Well, obvious the first thing obviously is like, if it sounds really, really good and easy don’t don’t do, it’s not gonna just stop right there. There’s your red flag right there. Right. Um, there is a lot of noise. You’re absolutely right. I think all of us kind of have an, an understanding, a basic common sense, understanding. Um, I will tell you that one of our rules really, and we don’t have many rules per se, but if it, if it leaves out whole food groups just walk away. Okay. We always, always are going to push and I’m by we, I mean the nutrition community like train nutritionists are always gonna push whole foods. In other words, foods that look the way they’re found in nature, we’re gonna push plant forward eating. So the more plants on your plate, the better your health outcomes. Okay. So it really isn’t all that

Speaker 2 (33:36):

Specific for each person. I mean, there’s going there’s lot of research and a lot of emphasis now being spent on it’s called ne nutrigenomics and it’s like checking your DNA and you’re getting, we’re not there yet. We’re just not there yet. What we do know though, is that people who eat a whole lot of plants who eat, um, UN you know, mono and saturated fats, we eat healthy fats, not refined grains, not a whole lot of sugar, not a whole lot of things that have become quite popular in the last century. They have better health outcomes. So if you wanna do Mediterranean, if you wanna do dash, if you wanna do a mind, di the, the buy bottom line is more plants, less processed food. Start there.

Speaker 1 (34:28):

The, um, I’m gonna throw your curve ball. I don’t know if people ask you this. Okay. But we didn’t talk about it. Okay. If I’m eating more plants, do I go organic or not? It doesn’t matter.

Speaker 2 (34:41):

There’s an awesome website called environmental working group, which is ewg.org. And they publish a list every year of the dirty dozen and the clean 15 and the dirty dozen are those 12 fruits and vegetables that have the most amount of pesticide residue on them. Clean 15, have the least amount and a pesticide residue on them. So if you can, it’s in your interest to buy organic versions of the dirty dozen and save your money. I mean, because nobody can really, and I get this, I do get this, like I can’t shop at, you know, these premium grocery stores all the time. Like I don’t,

Speaker 1 (35:22):

When you’re picking your plans. Right. It sounds great to do all that. It could get pricey very, very quickly in terms of

Speaker 2 (35:28):

Very quickly

Speaker 1 (35:29):

The berries and the, the, the kale and the carrots and the, you know, do you do organic versus not? And you, you know, all that stuff, it’s difficult, but okay.

Speaker 2 (35:40):

It is. But ultimately I would always tell someone, even if you can’t do anything organic, you are always going to be better off health wise by using a plant forward eating pattern. So when you emphasize plants, even if they’re all conventionally raised, you’re still going to be in a better place, health wise and nutrition wise than if you just forgo it and eat a bunch of processed food or, you know, just right. So

Speaker 1 (36:15):

Organic lettuce is better than a dinner of Yos and Twinkies is what you’re telling them.

Speaker 2 (36:19):

Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Or chicken nuggets and French fries. Right, right. So, yep. Yep.

Speaker 1 (36:27):

And I guess it ultimately comes down to your we’re making decisions in the moment. I guess this goes back to making good decisions, despite your stress, but what’s the, sometimes you, your deciding, what’s the least bad thing I can eat right now, cuz that’s kind of the environment we’re in. We’ve got the idea of what we’d like to eat at home and everything else, but we’re on the road traveling or, you know, traveling for work or, or picking up the kids and you gotta do things fast and the kids have to eat and it’s very easy to do a drive through. And you know, what’s the least bad thing in this moment. And then you can rally again for the next meal, but is that kind of a, a way to think, I guess, well, that’s how I think about it anyway, but

Speaker 2 (37:06):

Well, part of the challenge, I think that a lot of people face is that they don’t think about eating until about 30 minutes before mealtime. And if you’re hungry or if you’re stressed, you’re not gonna make a good decision. You’re just not. So you can do damage control and it’s, there are gonna be situations where everybody needs to be in four different places in within 15 minutes and, and you just gotta punt and hope for the best. Right. But for a lot of people spending a little bit of time planning the week and incorporating the meals into it, right? So you’ll plan your, your week out, right. You know, when your meetings are and you know, when your calls are, and I know when my patients are and, and all that stuff, but I’m also needing to plan this day. Everybody needs to be in some other place. So maybe I prep some food ahead of time. Maybe I cook four extra portions or eight extra portions. Right. Cuz I’m Italian. So I can cook a whole bunch of stuff,

Speaker 1 (38:09):

Dozens of extra

Speaker 2 (38:10):

And prep packets. Right?

Speaker 1 (38:12):

You take some

Speaker 2 (38:13):

Home, that’s not extra. That’s just what we need, you know? Right. So, but being able to kind of participate, where is your biggest road bump? And that’s also part of addressing the resistances and the obstacles of getting you where you wanna be. Cuz I hear that a lot. You know, I’m just too busy. Well, it really is a reflection of where’s the priority more than I’m too busy. It’s just, this is either a priority or it’s not a priority if it’s not a priority and you just can’t pull it out to this week or this month or whatever, you know, be honest about it. This, I can’t do it right now. I need to send, spend my energy focused in this direction. I only have so much energy to spend, right. But there are apps that people can use. There are meal kits. If you wanna go down that route, like there are a number of ways to address meal prep, meal planning, and even being able to have the idea, have some thought of like, I’m gonna have this tonight. I’m gonna bring that tomorrow. It can just make your life significantly easier. It does decrease your stress and you can then make a choice rather than default to doing the least amount of damage. And I feel

Speaker 1 (39:31):

Like it taking the time to plan ends up buying you more to time later because you’re gonna be more productive based on even the, the better things than making the last minute decision and regretting the entire,

Speaker 3 (39:42):

You know, Italian hero that you ate. And then you’re just not doing anything in the afternoon. Whereas if you had

Speaker 1 (39:47):

Just done some planning now, all of a sudden, your afternoon’s much more productive because you ate something that is in tune with whatever it is that that you would actually need.

Speaker 2 (39:55):

And it saves you money. It saves a lot of money. We throw out a ridiculous amount of food and, and if you’re doing takeout frequently or, or doing fast food frequently stuff, ain’t cheap.

Speaker 1 (40:10):

Yeah. It adds up.

Speaker 2 (40:12):

It

Speaker 1 (40:12):

Does where, so this is amazing. This is very helpful. It’s always the questions we want to ask, but we never ask and we get frustrated when we’re trying to do something and it’s all of this, this kind of stuff. Um, so thank you. Thank you for everything you added. I’d like to end every episode with a book recommendation. I don’t know if you prepared a book recommendation or not, but do you have a book that you would recommend to people either on this topic, on any topic, a book you enjoy, what’s your favorite book? Doesn’t it doesn’t matter, but what is your recommendation for people on something to read?

Speaker 2 (40:47):

Uh, it’s hard to pick just one, but I think my latest kick has been Joe Dispenza. Um, he is not just because he’s a Rutgers alum goes scar at nights, but he has written a couple of books. His first one is called breaking the habit of being yourself. Yep. And it really is about a lot of what this conversation was. In other words, to siding on a quality of life and figuring out what matters and how you wanna move through the world and then taking those steps to bring yourself into that reality. And the beauty of him, he’s got a terrific story, but the, the beauty is that he marries science with that whole psychological concept because he, he runs these, uh, sessions. And, but he’s doing brain scans of people as they are making these changes. And so it’s, it’s really fast fascinat stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:53):

So I would, that’s my, my shout out as far as, um, a food one though, I’ll give you a bonus. There’s uh, a book called chasing cupcakes by Elizabeth Benton. And it is a really fascinating book. I love her approach to weight loss. Now she had disordered eating patterns. So it’s, it’s a little different, but her approach really is applicable to a lot of people. And she, um, does focus a lot on the underlying psychological things that get in your way. And it’s, it’s more of a coaching book than an actual weight loss book. But I, I recommend that one a lot to people because I think she, she really has some very, very good insights and

Speaker 1 (42:46):

Look who wouldn’t, if you had to chase something, it might as well be a cupcake. So that would be, it might be good cupcake course. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (42:51):

Three bites. Yes,

Speaker 1 (42:53):

That’s right. Uh, um, this is great. Everybody tune in, come to bellweather hub. I’m gonna have all Marisa’s information, reach out to Marisa. She’s got everything that you could possibly need, uh, in terms of this and her background and her website and her LinkedIn and all that good stuff. So reach out to her for, for anything. Marisa, a pleasure is always thank you for your work done

Speaker 2 (43:13):

Jim. It was my deep honor. Thank you so much. And

Speaker 1 (43:16):

Everybody listen, make changes, be intentional with your changes. And I look forward to seeing everybody. So thanks for paying attention.

Life lessons from a whirlwind journey to Belfast.

Milestone alert! This week I have published my 100th episode of the podcast – a milestone that has been a long time coming; with over three years of interviews and rambling, I hope that you have enjoyed it as much as I have.

I’ve learned a lot these past few years, and sometimes it’s fun to stick your head up, look around, and see where you are in relation to where you started and where you want to go. Starting with the great friends who did early interviews, through the pandemic, and now looking at new opportunities, it’s been a fantastic journey. 

That journey will continue! So on this week’s episode, I explore it a bit, get reflective, and look at a bigger picture. 

We all leave some kind of legacy. (I get it – the podcast isn’t really one). But we can bring the best out of ourselves and others … and I hope this little corner of the podcast world is one way that does that. 

Happy listening!

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Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for joining episode 100, I’ve hit the triple digits. We’re at episode 100 and, uh, it’s a bit of a milestone and it’s nice to hit milestones. And I, you know, I was just cranking along doing whatever. And I was saying, what am I gonna talk about this week? And I said, oh, holy cow, last week was episode 99. That means that this is episode a hundred, which is very exciting. And so when I think about what I’m gonna talk about today, it’s, I’m gonna talk me and that’s fun for me, right? Just once I’m gonna talk about me and, uh, and all that, I’ve learned doing a hundred podcasts and how I look forward to doing a hundred more. Um, it’s been a hundred, a hundred episodes slowly over a little over three years, three plus years, I guess it was around March and 20 you one of the years.

Speaker 1 (01:06):

Um, but I’ve been doing about 30 a year doing about 30 episodes a year. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned a lot about how to do a podcast. I’ve learned how to create something consistently. Um, learning is my thing. So I’ll talk to you a little bit about what I learned by doing that. Uh, but, but a hundred episodes, some have just me, some have been other people. I think if I look back over this, it’s, it’s a crazy time to just pause. Matter of perspective, where are we, where am I from when I first started it to doing, you know, what I’m doing now and how the podcast has changed and how my business has changed. And it’s, it’s just a fun exercise to pause and take a look around and get that, that momentary look in the mirror and, and that momentary bit of perspective, and, you know, take a look around, do you like where you are?

Speaker 1 (01:58):

Where do you wanna be? And where do you want to go? And that’s, you know, that’s my jam. That’s, that’s exactly what I like to do. So where have we landed and where are we going? So let’s chat, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t write down much for this. Um, I like to ramble sometimes. So that’s what I’m gonna do, but I, I I’m, I guess what I’ll talk about in, in three buckets is, is why I do the podcast, what I’ve learned, doing the podcast, and maybe what I think about, you know, how this will inform me going forward, I guess, and the way I, I think about things and, and I get nice compliments from time to time, not just on the podcast, but people like, um, or at least some people do like the way I think about things. And so I’ll tell you how I think about things a little bit in terms of the podcast and everything else.

Speaker 1 (02:41):

So, uh, why do I do the podcast? I get a lot of requests for info on how do I art a podcast and why do I do it and all, all of that stuff. So, um, I do it because it’s cathartic for me. And this was really, you know, for years I was just pining to get back into radio. I had a radio show years ago with a good friend. We did all kinds of stuff. And I, I did college radio, we did all kinds of fun stuff, and it was just like a cool thing to do. And now it’s just a little more accessible where I could just say, screw it, I’ll do a radio show. Why not? And that’s kind of what, what the podcast came out of. And if I look back at how it changed over time, it’s almost like I was, you know, when I think about it catharsis and, and getting things off my chest, but it’s also helping me articulate the way I think about things with my clients, the way I think about things with people, strategy and business and organizations and how they should be approaching, uh, uh, work and, and their people.

Speaker 1 (03:35):

And when you think about how quickly things change and what I wish I knew and all of those types of things, that’s, that’s really what it came down to. So, um, it, it helped me find my voice and my opinion. Uh, and if you read the book, you know, all about, I love the idea of a belief system and, and, and all of those things. And, um, I mean, it’s, it’s so cool to, to be able to have a, a valid opinion that you’ve thought through, because if it’s a feeling you have, or, and there’s logic to it, then it’s valid automatically. And that’s where, where most people skip over the validity aspect of other people’s opinions is they don’t necessarily give it that validity where if they just pause for a second figured out where validity could, could lie on that and then use that as a basis for discussion it’s, um, it it’s, you know, it’s, it’s the way should, the way people should be it’s the way people should be.

Speaker 1 (04:33):

I don’t know why more people don’t listen to me. Um, uh, but if I look back on the last three years, everything is the same, but different. And it’s, uh, you know, constant change. People are stressed. The world is changing. This was well before the pandemic, when I started this and the pandemic kind of, you know, changed the topics as it went on, you know, it’s fun to look back and, and think about all of the things that I’ve about. It’s almost like a timeline, um, which probably is more meaning to me than it would to, to any of you li any of you out there listening. But when I look back and see all the topics I had from, you know, I used my social network at the beginning, right. And, and when I think about, if you’re starting do a podcast and I, again, stepping back, it’s not just a podcast, it could be anything, it could be a book.

Speaker 1 (05:22):

It could be, you know, it could be, um, a side hustle. It could be whatever, you know, the first thing to do is just start it, right. Not everybody, it doesn’t matter. Who’s listening, cuz nobody’s listening. You know, when I first started the podcast, I had a great social network and my friends that came to do it, Dennis doing, talking about lean, uh, two sweet, who’s gonna come back on talking to pro boxer, uh, Deshaun two sweet, John’s talking about discipline and how do you get off the mat? And he’s gonna come back and talk about resiliency and those types of things. And, and so it doesn’t really matter. Who’s listening, it’s about finding your voice and what it is that you want to say and you don’t have to share it. And when people are looking for purpose, they’re looking for things to do.

Speaker 1 (06:02):

They’re looking for to make a change. One of the big fears that stops us from trying something new is what the other people will say or what if I fall flat on my face or whatever. Uh, but the nice, beautiful part about a podcast or any other things is nobody’s really paying attention. Cause nobody knows how to find you and unless you wanna put it out, otherwise you can just practice all of the time and you can do whatever you want. And it’s a fun exercise to go through and you could just test little types of behaviors. So, you know, when I, when I think about the social network at the beginning, um, Dennis, who I just saw recently, who’s super cool, too sweet Trish Trish came on and um, talked about five minutes of silence, which is, uh, phenomenal, you know, just these first like four to five to 10 interviews, Eileen Scully on her book about women in male dominated industries.

Speaker 1 (06:56):

Those were, those were just fun interviews. And that’s why, you know, I kicked it off and said, why the hell not? Um, but if I look at the timeline, you know, I got feedback after all those interviews to say, what about you? What is your opinion? So I started to have a little bit more of, of my thoughts on things. And so I started doing that, that balance between myself and the interviews and, and that was fun. And, and by doing that, you know, if I, you look at my topics that I wanted to talk about really tells a story of what either I was dealing with or, you know, the world is dealing with. Um, you know, my disdain with the wellness industry was right at the beginning and, and it helped me articulate my thoughts on what I actually thought about wellness. It wasn’t necessarily me preaching to everybody what wellness should be.

Speaker 1 (07:39):

Uh, well, I guess it kind of was, but it was almost telling myself, you know, I’m hearing all this noise from other people on what wellness should be, what am I supposed to do for myself? And so, so that’s really what that came. And then it turned into the book and everything else and learning, how do I wanna learn? And what did I learn becoming a coach. And by time I, 20 years of corporate my time at Columbia, my, you know, all of these things have, have manifested into really cool things. And when you pause, stick your head up and say, where am I now? And what am I doing? What’s my business offering. And what’s my, you know, my marketing and what’s my awareness. And, and what’s my message. And all of those things, uh, if you look back to the beginning, it was really in discovery phase of what I believed and what, what I wanted my, my voice to be.

Speaker 1 (08:24):

And, and then it transitioned, um, if you lose, I mean, all the episodes are on the thing transitioned into, you know, beyond me into helping others. How do you give feedback? How do you manage other people? And, and we had some interviews on that. And then, then the RO hit, we got the nice, the nice pandemic and we were all isolated. Um, so I went right into mental health because we were, you know, a lot of people weren’t ready to have those internal conversations. We had no social support. If you’ve got Corona, nobody could help you. Um, I don’t know. I still don’t know how single parents did it, where, you know, you’re, you’re petrified of your kids getting sick for sure. But if they did get sick and you had a job, like you couldn’t ask a neighbor to help or family to help because they, nobody knew what was going on.

Speaker 1 (09:06):

Um, and so, so there was a lot of, you know, a lot of people felt stranded. And, and so I talked about my child challenges from, from mental health, why I quit drinking the, the dark places that I deal with. Um, and I got great, great feedback from that where people just needed to hear it. Um, and they were thanking that they weren’t the only people feeling that way. And they didn’t know how to have were so focused externally. They didn’t know how to have the, the conversations inside, um, be because it was, uh, you know, it was a large connection with a lot of people, but we, um, we know our fears and our doubts and everything else. So, so it’s a different type of conversation than, than the false one we typically give to our colleagues at work or when we go out networking or, or, or any of that, I, I do believe there are very few people out there who have some close enough that they can trust to share everything with, which shocks me the amount of people I’ve talked to about that.

Speaker 1 (10:02):

And, and social network is such an important aspect to find someone you can implicitly trust, and it doesn’t have to be a spouse. Like it doesn’t have to be this crazy, um, thing. It doesn’t have to be family. It doesn’t have to, you know, I know so many people have close enough families, but they don’t, you use their family in that way. And, and they have to to figure that out and it’s difficult, very, very difficult to do so. Um, so that was that whole phase. And, and now we’re, we’re trying to come outta the pandemic. It’s the new economy. Uh, the book came out halfway through it. How do you prepare for this change that we don’t know is coming and how do you manage a virtual workforce and what are the new skill sets for the new economy and, uh, change management and what are companies doing from a people strategy perspective.

Speaker 1 (10:42):

And, and it’s really coming into, you know, really nice. It’s a nice little flow if you will, for anybody on a, a similar journey as myself, but it’s an exciting time because now what’s next is, you know, we just did a, a recent topic on insecurity and, and I have a nice little conversation going on with all of you who are listening on what you want me to talk about, because I feel like now it could be helpful for you. And, and, um, it’s certainly we have amazing interviews coming up, uh, with really interesting people. So, um, I do, I will work hard to find really interesting people, um, to get the good ones for you. So, uh, I keep notes on what you send to me and what you want me to cover. And, um, you know, as I sketched out notes for this for a hundred episodes on why I do the podcast and everything else, uh, I was reminded of a trip to Belfast and it was right before the pandemic, uh, um, and there was a Belfast homecoming event and it was a brilliant event in Belfast.

Speaker 1 (11:44):

One of the greatest places that you could visit had an event at city hall, like it was, it was really, really cool. And, and one of the things, they had a guy talking about how we are all ancestors and, um, and it was a, a marvelous moment of perspective that resonated very well with me is that, you know, we think back to what our ancestors did and we’re, we’re proud of them. And we have great pride in our history. And, uh, just recently we had St pat trite and Irish Americans love their history and, and the, the Irishness that comes with it. And we’re very proud of the people who came before us and they had challenges and they overcame those challenges. We are currently ancestors for those next generations. And what will they look back and be proud of you for doing, and we all want a legacy.

Speaker 1 (12:37):

I mean, the podcast, isn’t gonna be a legacy, but as you look at a hundred, whatever your milestone is, we can stop and look around and say, am I doing what I actually want to do? You know, whether it’s, you have kids, whether you don’t have kids, whether it’s, you know, you’re part of a community, uh, we all want to have of that legacy, be an ancestor, make makes some kind of a difference. And that difference doesn’t have to be out outrageously worldwide. Um, it could be local and, and it could be small, but, um, no matter the challenges going on in the world, uh, the bigger perspective is that we, we all are ancestors in some way. And so we all leave a legacy and, and we can bring out the best in, in ourselves so that we can bring out the best in other people. And, and hopefully this podcast is one little corner where, where I’m able to help do that. So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s it, uh, I got, I’m not crying if watching the video, I’m not crying. I actually just got something in my eye.

Speaker 1 (13:36):

Um, but that’s what this is all about. I mean, when we talk about self development, what’s the purpose of self development? The purpose of self development is, um, is making ourselves the best we could be. It’s the secret of life, right? The meaning of life is to make ourselves the best that we could possibly be so that we can be in service to the people around us. And, and, and that’s why I focus a lot of these podcasts on development, on what we can learn. What are the important things to focus on? Just what was it last week, two weeks ago, Marisa talking about what you should be eating, let’s cut the crap. Let’s focus on what’s best for you and how, what you eat can affect your brain and all that other stuff. Um, so those are the things that, that motivate me and get me going.

Speaker 1 (14:18):

And so hopefully you’ll, you’ll keep tuning in for the next a hundred episodes. Come be a guest on the podcast, I guess. I mean, why not? Well, why not? Why shouldn’t I have 500 podcasts? Let’s do it. All right. Tell me something interesting to talk about, and I’ll have you on the podcast. Um, because this is, uh, it’s just a fun, little way to, to when I first started my business, my tagline, not tagline, but it was, you know, my belief was that everyone has something interesting to share, no matter who it is, somebody somewhere has something very interesting to share. And I still believe that the, the challenge that most people have is they don’t know how to articulate it, or they don’t think it’s that big a deal, or they don’t, you know, whatever. They’re like, oh, it’s not that big a deal.

Speaker 1 (15:06):

I just do this. And people say, holy cow, you do that. That’s amazing. Everybody has something really cool to talk about. Uh, and everybody is a very interesting person. We just have to give them the space to talk about it. We have to be curious enough to find out about it. And that’s, you know, that’s, that’s what, that’s what I like to do with this. So with that, thank you for tuning in. If you’ve listened to all 100 or, you know, maybe just two or one, whatever, if this is your first one, go back and listen. They will live forever, live forever in, uh, into perpetuity maybe. Um, until I stop paying the bill, I guess. Uh, so thank you for listening. I appreciate it. A hundred episodes, much more to come. I’m very excited. And as always reach out, if I could do anything for you. Thanks.

This week I’m thrilled to have Dr. Veronica Ruelas and Denise Gaffney as my guests to chat Forgiveness. Veronica and Denise are the co-founders of Forgivity, an app designed to foster a habit of forgiveness.

To be fair, when I first heard about turning forgiveness into a habit, I was a bit hesitant. Forgiveness as a habit was nowhere near anything I would have considered. Throw on top of it a neuroscientific and psychological angle, and all of a sudden I’m becoming a big fan.

I love the concept, especially in the context of the workplace. We touch on it in the podcast, but ultimately it should lead to a broader conversation of those “soft” words and terms (think vulnerability, psychological safety) that are vital to a functioning and more productive workplace culture. Ironically, these words we attribute as “soft” are embraced by the strongest and bravest leaders we know. They work.

Beyond the workplace, there is an accountability aspect to forgiveness that I never gave much thought. It’s a personal power to be able to forgive, and is one more notch on the belt of what we ultimately have control over. In fact, it’s the lack of forgiveness that often prevents us from getting to where we need to go.

Lots more to come on forgiveness – and one topic I encourage you to explore for yourself and your teams. Listen to the interview – they are fantastic – and learn how forgiveness just may be the buzzword that makes a significant difference for you this year.

The Forgivity app is now available for download on iOS. For more information on the app, please visit www.forgivity.com.

For more on Veronica and Denise, please hit up their channels:

https://www.instagram.com/forgivity/

https://www.facebook.com/Forgivity

https://www.tiktok.com/@forgivity

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I’m Jim Frawley and this is bellwether. Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for being here this week. We have guests, multiple guests for the first time we’re doing, you know, we’ve got a trio going here and it’s gonna be very, very good. The topic is forgiveness, and I know it’s, you know, it’s forgiveness. We, we can all talk about forgive for some reason. It’s one of the hottest words in corporate right now. I’ve gotten multiple phone calls about it right now. Everybody wants to know about how do you bring forgiveness into the workplace and what does that actually mean? Uh, which took me a little by surprise and, and very fortunately, almost, you know, as the world and universe can kind of work at the same time, I was introduced to these two wonderful individuals who have a solution for forgiveness in the workplace, and they have the app. Everything is an app, and this is, uh, this is going to be a very, very cool app. So I wanna talk to you about forgiveness. I’m gonna talk about the forgive app and let me introduce our wonderful guest this week. I’m gonna start with, we have Denise and Vero Vero. Please introduce yourself.Hi, I’m I’m Dr. Veronica OS and I’m the co-founder and co CEO of forg.And I’m Denise Kaney, I’m the other co-founder and co CEO of forg. Um, I have 20 years on wall street. I’m a certified, uh, energy leadership coach, and now I’m an entrepreneur,Which is a wonderful journey to be on. And when I think about wall street, I don’t typically think of forgiveness unless you think about it in, you know, kind of government handouts, but we’ll, we’ll talk about, um, at, in a difficult corporate environment. Talk to me, we’ll get it right out of the way. Yeah. Talk to me about the forgiving app, what it does and why you created it.So, um, it’s, it’s an, we use, uh, clinical neuroscience methods to, um, make forgiveness a more intuitive behavior because it’s, it’s not something we’re, we’re all taught that forgiveness is important and it’s universal, but, uh, the, how is really missing from the equation. And so, um, yeah, so we, we infuse, uh, humor. It’s a multisensory program. There’s audio learning, there’s engaging digestible, uh, nuggets throughout and, and, uh, yeah, and it’s a, it’s a beautiful, uh, fresh clean platform.Yeah. And you got a lot of us on there. We, uh, Vero mentioned the audio. We had a great time bringing a different type of learning to the app. So you’ll hear our voices. We, we recorded these little snippets called pod drops, and we’ll introduce each of the steps of the program with, uh, a little warm invite from the two of us. And then you’ll hear us throughout the program, uh, either with a bit of information or a quote or, um, some personal experience because like, who wouldn’t wanna hear us, Jim? Right.Everybody wants to hear you cause why you’re here. It’s why I have everyone on the, the show. My goodness,Hear this. They’re gonna be like, let me at the app.<laugh> and you’ve, you’ll be in that too. You’re everywhere. Um, so forgiveness and science would never have paired the two together. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, you hear that you’re supposed to forgive people. It’s very much, um, you know, when we teach people how to forgive, uh, how does that even work? Right. When I think of forgiveness, I think of it externally, right? You had some wrong come to you and how do you let them, that person know that it’s okay. And, and talking to you, it’s not necessarily letting them know that what they did was okay. It’s about letting them know that you won’t let it bother you. Is that how do you define forgiveness and, and how do we really start that?So we, uh, um, we were a lot, all of us were taught the importance of forgiveness and, um, and it was either through culture, through our family, through our religious practice that we were born into. And so, uh, we are actually empowering the user to have forgiveness come from within them. Um, people can still use the ways that they learned, uh, how to forgive, but we F that a lot of, a lot of times we say we forgive, and then yet a little time further down the road, we think of the person that has quote, wronged us. Um, and we still have a physical reaction to it. So when you say the science, there’s, there’s a deep biological, chemical reaction that is happening when we live in this kind of quote unforgiveness. And so, uh, our heart rate can increase. We, um, uh, lose sleep. Uh, there’s a lot of different ways that it is affecting us. And so when we teach forgiveness, it’s really about how do we get to that fully, that full process of letting go and releasing it and knowing that it is that have the power within us to do that.So it’s, it’s not just, when you think about forgiveness, it’s not just a mental health thing, there’s physical attributes to it as well. And, and we talk about how the physical and the mental always, they go hand in hand, right? You know, what you eat can affect the way you think in all of those types of things, forgiveness is actually has a, a physical response. Is that what you’re saying?A hundred percent? What if, what if we broke it down to, um, what if we took the word forgiveness out and spoke about stress, everybody’s familiar with the effects that stress has on the body? Right. Well, the link between forgiveness and stress is unforgiveness and resentment and anger and irritation and grudge holding. So all of those things, right, that all of us do, um, contribute to the increased stress in our bodies. So does that feel like more of a linear type of, of thing to understand? Sure.And, and the resentment of, as we sit there, you know, we, when you think about coaching and what, and what everybody teaches people to do is focus on what you can’t control, right? You can’t control when somebody treats you like garbage, you can’t control when something wrong happens to you, you can’t, but you can’t control how you react much easier said than done. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So when we think about, it’s almost meditative, the way you’re doing it, it’s, it’s a stress relief of, you know, parasympathetic, nervous system, all of those types of things. And how do you turn off? But this is something that’s got to become habitual, I would imagine, right? Because this will constantly come back. Resentment will constantly come back. When other stressors come in, you can always fall back on the resentment that you had and, and you’re ultimately blaming other people. How does, you know, how do habits cut into this? How does accountability, uh, set into this? Because ultimately this is your responsibility for forgiveness, not necessarily, regardless of what somebody else does to you. Talk to me a little bit about that,Jim. I mean, um, you’re hired, do you want a board position? I mean, you nailed<laugh>, let’s do it. Yes. Seriously.You, I mean, you’re good. It’s Jim’s sandwich.It’s it’s <laugh> um, that’s exactly right. When we see it’s a neuroscience program, we’re talking about, uh, the neuroplasticity, uh, we re we talk about retraining brain. So that’s how we start to create habitual, uh, patterns. So that behaviors start to, um, uh, express themselves in sustainable ways. Right. So, um, we’ve used the analogy, right? It can’t like, uh, wake up one day and just run the marathon. Right? So we, it takes, it takes practice. It takes muscle memory. And so as we start to educate ourselves, I mean, these are things that we also needed to learn too. We’ve gone through 50 years of research. I mean, there has been so much in terms of cultural, culturally, how we forgive changes, um, our religious organizations. Uh, so it’s all there, but it’s so interesting. There’s all these little or caveats that like, you can forgive if it’s this, or you forgive on this day, or you forgive if you go to this person.And so, um, we respect and honor all of that. Uh, but there, but there’s still that kind of like, like you said, every day we can wake up and there’s new resentments. If any of us are in, um, partnership, we know that mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so every day a were given ample opportunity to be able to use this. And so we really believe that it’s just, as we just don’t know, we don’t know how damaging living in unforgiveness is. We don’t know the magic and miracles of forgiveness can bring in our lives. Once we excavate, uh, that resentment from us and, uh, start to really cut those chains that bind us what the possibilities are. And once we start to learn that through the program, because it is gently and lovingly reminding throughout, um, we start to lay down those new neural tracks so that when something happens, instead of safety of resentment, we have the confidence and the faith to now turn and go into a different direction of forgiveness.And if, if I could, um, piggyback on that, Jim, you mentioned coaching and, um, we can’t control the outside forces. We can only control how we react, right. Um, it’s the other person. We, if this, we teach forgiveness is innate. It’s the power we have within ourselves. The minute we start putting condition on what forgiveness looks like, we give the power away. We wanna keep that here. So no matter what happens from the smallest transgression to something horribly traumatic, that we know that, that we have a choice and it’s only about us. Otherwise we keep ourselves tied energetically to the very thing that’s causing the resentment, the pain, the trauma, who would wanna do that. If you, if you break it down into a real simplistic terms, it’s like, do you choose to be hurt? Or do you choose to be empoweredNow? Well, so some people are gluts for punishment.Yep.So let’s talk about those people who are looking to be wrong, right. Who are looking for those types of things who are looking for, you know, uh, is that just some kind of mental health issue? Is that something where, you know, they have to, when we think about forgiveness, how does it, because I’m, I’m eventually gonna tie this back to corporate, right. And that’s where I really wanna go with this because yes. You’ve said three things between the two of you. One is it’s never about the other person. So it’s individual accountability. What’s personal capability in bringing that in mm-hmm <affirmative>. And where does that tie into things? Like you said, Vero, you said the word safety, so psychological safety and the lack of forgiveness. I think a lot of what you’re talking about is not just forgiveness, but it’s more important is the lack of forgiveness that exists in the workplace. How do you, how do you measure other people on that? How do you teach that in a corporate environment? Talk to me a little bit about, you know, individual personal capability, teaching that within the context of psychological safety and, and the corporate environment.So, um, so in terms of, in terms of the individual, um, I’m, I’m sorry, I’m just trying, I’m trying, cuz I’m I’m on the, it wasA loaded question with like 17 built into it.IOgrapher can I, can you read that back to me please? CanWe get a read back? <laugh> yeah, let me break, let me ask it this way. Cuz I, I did ask seven questions in one we’ll start with psychological safety.Okay. Yeah. So psychological,How do you create an environment where forgiveness is accepted or that, that doesn’t reward? Lack of forgiveness.Okay. There was a, there was something about victim that was coming up when you were speaking in the, in the first time. Um, so how do we create a safe environment? And um, but I, I also want to, uh, validate and affirm that, uh, there’s some really heavy things that need to be forgiven. And uh, and so when we’re talking about forgiveness, it’s not like we’re putting ourselves up on a hierarchy. Oh, I have the power to forgive I’m bestowing forgiveness onto this. It’s not about that. Um, and we want to, and along the way, we really, when we wrote the program, kept in mind the people that, uh, really have some big trauma that need to be forgiven. So, um, holding onto a resentment feels like a boundary, a safe boundary that I’m, I’m keeping up between me and my transgressor and that, um, that feels very real.Um, and so what we’re, what we’re saying is by forgiving them, we’re not, um, putting our selves in harm’s way. We’re not putting ourselves in, in an, in an unsafe environment. It’s just that we’re releasing these binds that they have to us. Right. So we can forgive and never be in relationship with the other person. Again, we can forgive and never have to, um, let them into our lives. And so that’s a really important distinction to make because we, a lot of us have been taught, forgive and forget. Yeah. Or, um, forgiveness doesn’t mean that I condone what you did to me or that, um, you and I are ever gonna be friends again. Right. So that’s really important in terms of safety. Um, so I wanted to just, uh, put that in there. And then in terms of, uh, co company and culture, we Denise and I talk a lot about this because we offer forg, um, to, uh, businesses now for bulk subscription because, uh, there is, um, widespread, toxic company culture going on.And so how can we start to again, create that, um, retraining the brain to under standing that like one, something people are gonna fail us every single day that is we’re human, right. So, I mean, it’s just gonna happen. Um, I’m gonna fail my husband. He’s gonna fail me. Even those that we love our children, our children are gonna fail us. So in inside the, um, work environment, um, when that happens already having those tools and be being able to look at the person who has done something as an entire human being, right. Humanizing that person so that we’re not just, um, hyper focusing on what they did. Um, but we’re able to see, yes, they did that. And there are all these other things, right. They’re a good parent, they’re they have goodness in them. So it’s, it’s allowing, it’s allowing ourselves to, um, have the capacity to be able to, uh, not be, um, not see, uh, not see someone as their act alone. So that already starts to invite in, um, a more way of how we, uh, are in our, in our careers.Um, Denise,Do you wanna add to that?I, I would love to. Yeah. Um, we are working with a lot of corporations at the moment. And so this pitch is right on the tip of our tongues and I want to, um, bring it back to the safety of the corporate environment. Boundaries are hugely important. We teach, um, having good boundaries in the app because otherwise you leave the door open for, uh, transgressions to just keep coming in. Right. Um, and when we forgiveness fluency and we, and we get that muscle, that forgiveness muscle tight leadership is more effect teams work more coherently employees have better time management skills because they’re not sitting at their desk ruminating about the guy that stole their idea or, you know, screwed them out of a deal or whatever. Um, attendance is better. Productivity is better all because of forgiveness, because if I am a able to be, um, an empowered person with great boundaries and the ability to not let resentment live inside of me, I have all of this bandwidth for so many other things, creativity, um, you know, productivity, uh, just the things that a leader or a corporation will on an employee. They don’t,It’s amazing how much resentment just takes away from productivity and how much timeEvery, I mean, well, it starts with, you’re laying in bed at night. And you’re thinking about Joe Schmo, who, who got, who got your deal, who got your client or who, whatever who’s, you know, and then, so it starts with lack of sleep, everybody, what lack of sleep does right then it’s inflammation then it’s you, can’t, you’re tired. So you can’t concentrate. So now your time management’s screwed up and your resiliency layer is thin. So you’re irritable, you’re nasty. You’re not a good team player. You suck as a leader. If we could just draw the lines from, from all those things, it seems very like simple right now.And that be,Go ahead, Viro.I was gonna say, and that behavior’s contagious, right? Yes. So then all of a sudden now, um, now my, uh, colleague and my team members are gonna pick up on this anger bug that I have. And then now it’s just like, you know, and then that’s starts to have that you, um, effect. And so now if we came in to work in from the forgiving lens, from the compassionate lens, um, from having a tremendous amount of self-awareness and presence, let’s let that be the contagion contagious effect. Right?So in terms of that, and I, I have to ask this question because when I talk about psychological safety and I pitch it to clients, mm-hmm <affirmative>, they roll their eyes. Cause they don’t know what it is. And they think it sounds like a very weak word mm-hmm <affirmative>. And when I think back to becoming a coach and leaving corporate, also wall street words, like love never came out, right. It just don’t do it. Psychological safety sounds like something, you know, soft for millennials, forgiveness, compassion. This is a place of work. We don’t all need to be friends depending on which generation you’re from and everything else. We know that the science is there, that there’s validity to it. And once I explain to people what psychological safety is, they say, oh yeah, of course. It’s just, you know, that’s just a weak title. Um, of course we want that. We want everybody to talk and, and feel comfortable and everything. That’s what we want. How do we get people past the fact that it’s a weak word? When in actuality, we know that the bravest leaders are the ones who are able to do it. And, and it’s a very strong word. How do we convince people to sign on at the beginning to at least first filter is there’s validity to this and it’s not just kind of weakness. How would you answer that?Um, well I would say just asking the people, do you wanna live be life or do you wanna be angry all the time? Do you wanna feel sick and have lack of connection and control or do you want to have power and freedom? Um, because forgiveness may sound like a weak word, but it’s actually the bravest step we can take in our own freedom, our own power, um, independence. Right. Um, I hear what you’re saying, but 10 years ago people thought meditation was weak.Exactly. Right, right. And now you’ve got like whim off the Iceman breathing for, you know, whatever. Yeah. So,You know what you wanna be brave. You wanna be cutting edge, jump on the forgiveness wagon because that’s the brave way to go. Not sitting in the old story, in the feeling of, of unhealth and unforgiveness. That’s actually not brave. That’s the weak. That is the weaker choice.And I’m sure we could tie it down like psychological, safety’s tied to bottom line revenue forgiveness. I imagine very similarly. How much of this going back to what you said before, not leaving the door open for other additional transgressions. Right. And I think to Adam grants, uh, hello, kittycat Adam grants give her taker, um, you know, there are givers at work and there are takers at work and you’ll burn out. Yeah. How can you head it off at the pass? Can you stop transgressions before they come? And how much of forgiveness is done in advance where you’re communicating expectations of what’s acceptable and not?Um, I don’t know if, I don’t know if you can, you can stop transgressions at the door cause people are gonna be people, right. It’s almost like saying like I wanna lift li life without being triggered. Triggers are gonna happen. Right. Um, these, these, um, so I see a transgression, almost like a trigger. It’s an, it’s almost an opportunity for us to kind of, um, to go ahead and, uh, transcend what’s happening. And so, um, but, uh, when we have really clean and clear boundaries, that definitely makes it more difficult for other, other people. Like we’re already setting a precedence, this is my space. This is how I communicate. Um, and, uh, I’m loving with boundaries. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, uh, boundaries don’t mean that I, I have to be a jerk to anybody. Um, but it just means that I’m clean and clear. And so, uh, that start, that sends, definitely sends out a clear signal. And if we look at, from a place of energetics, um, you know, there’s that saying, like, if you choose the right environment, it’ll do the rest of the work for you. And so, um, so it’s really, really important. Um, the energy that, that we have within us, that we’re exuding out. That doesn’t mean that bad things aren’t still gonna happen. You know, mean bad things happen to good people all the time.And, and I think it goes back to building the muscle too. Like, um, the, if, if we are in a practice of something, it becomes intuitive. Um, and so with the, with forg, that’s actually what we’re teaching people. We’re, we’re reinforcing the practice. We’re retraining rain, we’re creating new neuro pathways. It then becomes an intuitive reflex so that the transgresion as zero said is always going to happen. But our response and our response time will change with time as that muscle gets really strong.Now, one of the words that keeps popping into my head is we talk is cons sequence, right? I know people who are not getting crossed at the workplace because people fear consequence. Right. I would never cross this individual because you know, it’s gonna burn me in the end. And there are other people where you feel like fine. You can forgive me all you want, I’m still gonna, you know, do that transgression and you have that power and whatever. Where does concert sequence fit in or is that too externally focused? You know, what, where does consequence fall into boundaries and, and what does that look like?Well, there, there, there should always still be, uh, justice, right? We’re not saying forgiveness doesn’t mean like, you know, you have car blanche to do here’s the other cheek. Okay. Here’s the, you know, okay, let me do it myself. I mean, it is, it’s about, um, yeah, I mean, if, if someone, if someone wrongs us, we should speak up, we should, uh, defend ourselves. Uh, that has, that is completely separate from forgiveness. And, and again, that’s, that’s so interesting. And I’m so happy you brought up this point, Jim, because that’s what people think mm-hmm, <affirmative>, I’ve, I, that’s what I thought. That’s why it’s seen as such a soft, uh, topic when it’s like, when, because it’s like, yeah, no, I’m not gonna leave myself open to, um, to people wronging me no way. And, um, and so that, that’s why having the resentment gives that illusion sense of safety. Um, but no, stand your ground, speak your voice. Um, we’re just saying don’t hold onto it.Right? Let itGo internally. Let it go. That’sThere’s something too. That’s coming up for me. And like I say, this, uh, a lot, this ain’t your mom’s forgiveness, Jim, this is the modern approach to what forgiveness means. This is non dogmatic. This is, um, nontraditional. This is, I choose to recognize that X, Y, and Z happened. This is how I feel about it. This is what I lost. This is what I learned. This is how a human, the other person. And then this is how I move on from the event. And that’s where all the power happens.So we’re separating it and it is a unique, right. We’re separating it from standing up for yourself. We’re self-respect and all of those types of things. And this is really, you know, a mental exercise are there. I I’ve been thinking about this since we first talked and I don’t know how to frame it. So gonna ask it who’s better at forgiving men or women.<laugh>Right. That’s a great question. So we, um, there, there’s been a lot of studies on this and, um, and they’ve even split up cultures to which cultures have more masculine traits and which cultures have more feminine traits. So women are better at forgiving. Men are better at forgetting. And so when we say, um, so when we say in terms of forgiveness, women are better at forgiving because we, uh, tend to, or, um, forgive more from the heart. It’s, it’s more of an emotional decision. Um, and when we do it, we’re doing it because it it’s for kind of, for the betterment of the tribe. So there’s a collective that’s part, that’s called a collectivistic culture. And so that tends to have more feminine traits. Um, I’m doing it for us and men will forgive, um, um, and forget more easily, which is, again, we don’t teach forgive and forget.Right. But, um, but is good, right? I mean, it’s like the definition of hap yeah. The Def definition of happiness is good health and a bad memory. Right. So we’re all about that too. Um, we’re not negating that. Um, but men will forgive more decisionally from their head, which is, um, more for self, which is, uh, part of what’s called the indivi individualistic it culture. So the United States is an individualistic culture. Um, and then we look at, you know, some, uh, uh, like, uh, some countries in south America are more, um, are more collectivistic. So it’s, it’s not so much in terms of like, who’s better at it. It’s just different ways of going at it. And, um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I bet women wish that they could forget more easily too. Um, but they, they, they seem to have they process it differently. That’s all.Um, if I might drop in a personal little story, um, Vero and I were talking about this and I, I was saying, how 20 years on a trading floor, I witnessed some really gross behavior, not just, you know, the, the stuff that you read about, you know, in, uh, the articles, but physical anger come out on the floor. I mean, pun hitting with a hard, you know, those big, old, black hard phones. I saw people beating each other and it’s primarily men. So I could say like, you know, everybody around me was, was basically male except for a few. And then they were just stop. And then it would be over because they needed the next deal. They were like, I’m beating somebody one minute and shaking hands the next minute, or having a, or having a beer after work because they need that guy for, for money in their pocket. So that was like a real, that, that was so obvious to me about how, I don’t know if it’s forgiveness, but it, it was definitely moving on from the, from the, from the event.Right. I, I feel like, you know, boys, growing up, you get into a fist fight and then it’s over. Mm. Whereas I think of, you know, the story of just girls growing up, never speak to each other again, because they wore the same outfit or something ridiculous. Um, but, but you’re right. You know, when I think of me, there are people wrong, me and they’re effectively dead to of me. Like, I just don’t think about them anymore and they’re not, you know, I would never, but I’m sure if I saw them, it would bring everything back where I’m like, I don’t like you. Um, but my wife on the other hand is fantastic about just addressing something and just clearing, clearing the air and, and getting rid of it. Um, is there a place for the forgive and forget, or is that just kind of irrelevant for this part of the, you know, do we need to teach more people how to address the, you know, yes. Logically I know I’m never gonna do anything with these people, and that’s how I forget, like logically you’re dead to me and that’s fine. Emotionally. I haven’t, is there a logic versus emotion component to this that that needs to be talked about?Yeah, well, we have to really be careful because I think that, uh, so there’s something called bypassing, right. So if I just is like, okay, you’re dead to me. I haven’t processed what’s happened. I haven’t really like honored. There was, there was something that was done and it hurt that I felt. And, um, I need to honor that. And what, and what is my lesson in that? Right. So, um, so we can just forget through a, by just bypassing, I’m just gonna skip over that part. And so, um, so there’s that, um, and, um, yeah, I mean, I just, so I, I just wanted to drop that in there because it’s really important. I don’t know if either is like more healthy than the other, the way the women do it, or the way that men are do it. Um, forgive and forget is amazing. If we can truly do it, mm-hmm <affirmative> right. That’s really like, I’m gonna forgive really forgive because I went through the entire process. I did digested everything. I alchemized it. And I transmuted it out into space. It’s done. And I’m able to forget every time I see you, my heart’s not gonna start racing. Right. That kind of having that kind of charge, um, really shows us that we haven’t really, we haven’t completed the process yet.Right. We haven’t addressedThat. You, you mentioned that with your own experience, Jim, right? Like if you see the person, all of a sudden you get jacked up again, it’s because you parked all that somewhere down deep so that you could be a productive member of society, but the truth is it’s still there. It’s like, you know, hanging out, down there, taking up space festering. I like to use the example. I may have said this to you in the past of, you know, when you’re, um, RS probably says like hearing this, but when you’re recycling the peanut butter jar, it’s the most annoying, difficult thing to get into the recycle bin because there’s that stuff at the bottom of the peanut butter jar that you gotta clean out somehow, that’s what real forgiveness is. It’s getting to the bottom of the thing. That’s bugging the crap out of you and, and real leasing it. And like Vero said, alchemizing it. And transmuting it. And then you’re, then you’re good. Then you can toss that thing in the, in the thing, in the,I mean, you could just throw it away anyway. <laugh> But it’s not the right thing. I hear what you’re saying.You’re right. But you’re firedFinal question off the board very quickly. That was a very quick, is there a limit, is there a limit to forgiveness? Is it possible to, to do things or, or, or, you know, where does, where does forgiveness actually end or the, the ability to forgive end?We, we really believe that everything is forgivable. And again, we wanna honor that there are huge things that people, uh, will feel called to forgive huge traumas that have happened, but we’ve got endless stories of, um, people who’ve ordinary people who are forgiven extraordinary things and the magic that has come into their lives, uh, the miracles that have come into their lives, the, the places they’ve gone to that they’ve elevated to, uh, is, is, I mean, it’s remarkable. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, yeah, everything, everything is forgivable. And I, and, you know, we, we ask that question in our podcast, like, what’s that thing that’s unforgivable, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, everyone, and everyone’s got an answer and it’s, it’s usually similar and of course has to do around children. And, and so, um, so, you know, again, honoring, honoring how painful and devastating that is, um, and just knowing that there are people out there that are able to forgive that. And, um, and, and yeah, I mean, that’s, that is, uh, and it’s just anyway, so I, yeah, so that, that’s our belief, but I’ll let Denise drop in on that too.Yeah. I would say that, um, prior to doing this deep, deep work unforgiveness, I would’ve said that certain things were unforgivable. Um, what I’ve learned in these beautiful that we are going to include, um, in forgi 2.0, they’re called, uh, catching miracles. Um, there are so many stories of people that went through horrific trauma and they made a choice to work through it. Of course, a lot of work through it. We’re huge proponents in therapy. And we understand mental health is, uh, it has to be addressed tremendous traumatic situations. Um, they did the work and they decided to do other things. Um, they have, that’s why I say, it’s not your mom’s for forgiveness. They forgave, they forgave even a way that, um, honored their loss and allowed them to move forward in a different capacity without being tied to that awful, awful thing that happened. And I, we look at them and say, if they can do it, anybody can do it. The human, the human heart and mind has the CAPA, this type of healing. And if one of us can do it, all of us can do it.Excellent. That’s a perfect way to, to wrap it. I love the idea. I love the topic of forgiveness. Um, the final things we always end on the book recommendation and how people can find you. So why don’t you tell me about how people can find you first, uh, more information be on bellweather hub.com, but how can people find you help support you? What’s next?I’m just gonna give VES, uh, cell phone number out so they can just start calling her<laugh>.Um, no, it’s, we’re really easy to find. So, um, if you wanna email us, um, I’m Denise D N is egi.com and VES at the same handle, Vero forgi com. You could also hop on our website, which, um, I will just drop in a little note. We are a little bit under construction, but live, so get your info on there. Um, we’d also, we’re also on IG, um, forgi we’re on Facebook for all you Facebook fans. Um, we’re on TikTok, check on, check out our talks. You’reEverywhere. My goodness,My God. We’re everywhere. And, uh, Vero you wanna share what our gift is?Uh, yeah, so our gift is, uh, anyone that is listening. Oh, we’d like to give the app away for free to them to download. So all they have to do is go on the website, um, put in their email address, uh, or actually, you know, they can just email us, right, Denise, and then we’ll send a free link out. Yeah. Either wayYou’ll quicker. If you email one of us, ifYou email us directly. Yeah. That’s true. And, um, yeah, we’ll send you the free link. Uh it’s uh, O only for I iOS iPhone users. Now we’re working on getting it available for Android. Um, yeah. And so favorite book recommendations. I love anything by David Seras, just because laughter is the best hum best medicine, and that’s why we use it. Uh, we use humor in the program. Um, and, um, and from, from a more personal, uh, uh, I used to read the Alchemist, every new year’s, uh, I reread that book and, um, I just, I just love the, uh, story of the journey and, um, really listening to how the universe is speaking to us and how we can really stay connected to flow. And so, um, yeah, that’s one of my all time favorites.That’s actually one of my all time favorites too. Um, I am, I brought a current read with me because I also thought this was tied into your audience gym. It’s called emotional currency. Um, and the, uh, the tag is a woman’s guide to building a ha a healthy relationship with money <affirmative> and it’s, um, money as energy. And that the re better the relationship is with one type of energy. The better the relationship is with every type of energy. So I’m in the process of reading that I’ll send my book review in to bellwether when I’m done.Yes. I want to know. Um,Also I just started re-reading untethered soul.Yep.Um, which, and I bought the journal to go along with it because though we’re teaching forgiveness, there’s always work to be done and there’s always, you know, good stuff when you go deeper. So that’sMy all part of the journey. That’s good.What’s your favorite book? Jim?My favorite book is the Kani crystal, but I love your out chemist. Um, but I prefer sidhartha if you’ve read SidharthOh, I love Herman. He, yeah, amazing. SoThat’s, that’s myAmazing, that’s a,Goodhart’s my journey. Sidhartha Walden Kani, Christo. Probably my top three. SoThose are, oh, I love thatAlso.Yeah. Well, thank you. Well, thank you both for doing in this forgi forgi app. Look at them everywhere. I’ll have their info contact info email address. You can get the app for free. If you have iOS better get on Android soon. Cause I’m an Android user. Um, but that’s gonna be out soon. Use it. Come on, apple. My goodness. 20, 22, we need,We can open it up on an iPad. If you have an iPad appFor why would I have it had <laugh>?I mean,My wife has one, so we’ll do it on that. Um, but forg is, is it, it is. I do honestly sincerely believe, you know, psychological safety is, is the buzzword of the day it’s taking over organizations. Forgiveness is gonna be a significant part of that and right behind it. So this is, this is huge from personal accountability to changing a corporate culture. Forgiveness is a, a fundamental aspect to that. So Denise Vero, thank you so much for beingOn theShow. Thanks Jim.I appreciate it. And I look forward to seeing everybody out there soon.Thanks.Thank you so much for listening. Now, do something for yourself. Bellweather is much more than just a podcast. Join us@bellweatherhub.com, where you can read riveting articles, view upcoming events and connect with other interesting people. I look forward to seeing you out there soon.

At Bellwether, we prefer to learn from the best.  And when it comes to mindfulness, focus and performing under pressure, you find the best on one of the most intimidating stages in the world: the New York Philharmonic. Richard Deane, Principal French Horn for the NY Phil, executes with graceful detail in front of one of the most fastidious and discriminating audiences that exist (classical music fans). And he does so with one of the most challenging instruments you can play. Getting to his seat is an arduous journey. Some would argue that staying in that seat is even more challenging.  It takes focus. It takes meditation and mindfulness. It takes humility and grace and all of those other really nice words we wish people used about us.  Richard shares his story - of what got him to where he is, and how he remains focused while playing exquisite music on a grand scale. Most importantly, and this was the question I could hardly wait to ask, is how to get your focus back after making a mistake. The metaphors are solid and the advice is tangible. I loved learning from Richard, and I know you will, too.  You can learn more about Richard on his website: www.richarddeane.com You can learn more about the New York Philharmonic here: www.nyphil.org

This week marks 6 years since my last official day in corporate. I remember the day well – I turned in my badge, walked to the water, looked out over the Hudson river and took a deep breath. It’s been a wild, fun and challenging ride – and I must say I’m a much better person for it.

That said, I feel it’s a good time to revisit why I left corporate, considering the amount of people looking to make the jump today, and also the many who made the jump and are thinking about going back. But it’s also a good time to chat about what I’ve learned since, and why I could consider going back to the cubicle, office and hallway world of bad free coffee and awkward “waiting for elevator” smirk/smiles.

Why I Left Corporate 

I always say I hated corporate – which isn’t exactly accurate. At the time, I couldn’t put my finger on exactly what I disliked about it, but ultimately I had no drive or desire to do more than what was required.

I did good work – but stopped when the work was done. In an Office Space kind of way, I didn’t think I had any incentive to go beyond the minimum expected. Leadership respected me and saw more in me than I did myself, but the idea of creating work and driving something bigger than myself forward just never occurred to me.

It sounds ridiculous, but I didn’t know *how* to work in a corporate setting. Yes, I was professional, my work was pristine, and I did what was expected of me. But when we talk about purpose, passion, etc. – it wasn’t there, and that’s what brings me to what I’ve learned.

What I’ve Learned

First and foremost – I learned that my issues with corporate were my own doing. I had more control over my work product and satisfaction than I allowed myself. It was easier to point fingers at culture or bosses or lack of feedback for reasons as to why I wasn’t getting to where I wanted to go. All of those are red herrings – we ultimately control our own development and next steps.

Many entrepreneurs will tell you that the passion, drive and more that they were looking for doesn’t necessarily come from the product that they deliver – it comes from the creation of something and the risk and reward that comes from it. This entrepreneurial mindset and psychology will do wonders in a corporate environment – we ultimately want to create something that we can own and be proud of. That can be done inside a company or outside – where it is will be up to you.

Why I Could Go Back

I have a different perspective today, and recognizing that there is an entrepreneurial aspect to navigating a corporation is a bit of a game changer for my clients. From accountability to efficacy – there is a merging of personal capability with business goals and culture that needs to happen. And we, as individuals, have more control over that than many of us give ourselves credit for.

Especially today, with the discussion on culture, hybrid work and going back into the office – it’s the people who understand this bigger picture who are making significant strides in embracing it and making it their own. Yes, flexibility has its place, but ultimately there is a larger picture than ourselves, and one we need to explore and make an impact on.

More on the podcast – but those are my thoughts today. Hope it’s helpful – and I’m always here to chat!

 

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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast

 welcome to bellwether episode 102. And I’m gonna talk about something very topical today. I’m gonna talk to you all about why I left corporate, uh, it’s top of mind for many, many people right now, whether it’s their thinking about the great resignation or I’m. So I hate my job more than anything. And the world is, you know, continually changing. We talk about that all the time work is making me come back to the office and I hate it. Do I actually leave now, do I take this time? Uh, a lot of people have moved, uh, out of corporate and are now looking to get back. They weren’t quite ready for the movie, even though they thought they were, and this week is a milestone for me because I’m recording this on a Wednesday. But this Friday of this week is my anniversary. Seven sixth year anniversary of the day I left corporate officially May 20th, 2016 was my last day within a corporate building with a badge with one of those little badge things.Um, so what I wanna talk about today, why I left, I’ve learned so much since you know, why as to why I left. I’ve learned so much about it just in my industry, what I do as a coach, working with people. And so I understand more of why I actually left corporate and what was going through my mind, even though I couldn’t articulate it at that time. I’ll talk to you a little bit about what I’ve learned since, and then I’ll, you know, I’ll tease it a little bit. Would I actually go back? Maybe I will, maybe I won’t cliff hanger to, to get you to stick around till the end, or you can just pass forward. It doesn’t matter. Um, <laugh> whatever works, but that’s what I wanna talk about today because I know it’s top of mind, I’m gonna keep this probably under 15 minutes.We’re all busy. We don’t have time for this. So I’m gonna tell you why I left corporate what I was thinking, what I’ve learned and, and why I would, or wouldn’t go back. So why I left? I tell people quickly why, when they ask me why I left corporate, I automatically, my response is I hated corporate and that’s not fully true. Um, I hated my position within corporate and it’s mostly because I didn’t feel like I fit in, in corporate. And you know, this’ bleed into a little bit of what I’ve learned is what I realize now is that I didn’t fully know how to operate in the corporate environment. Now I was very good in the corporate environment. So Ty put me in front of any group. It wasn’t, it wasn’t about the manners or anything. It was about dictating what it was that I wanted to do, finding that desire to do work and all of that type of work.So I love the people. I love the people I worked with. Um, but I can never put my finger on what exactly it was. I disliked at the time becoming a coach, taught me more, uh, which I’ll talk about, but, um, I had no drive. I had no desire to do more than the bare minimum. Um, you know, I could do my work very, very well. I could do it in a very short amount of time and that was good enough. And I had no inkling or inclination or, or desire to really create work, do more and whatever it was more you tell me what to do, I’ll do it fine. Just leave me alone. And that’s it. And I, I think if I were still in corporate during the pandemic with people trying to call me back, I’d probably fight going back to the office because I could probably mail it in.I was mailing it in back then. I was making, you know, six figures, good money. Um, and I was good enough to do that. And I probably would’ve, well, I not probably, I definitely would’ve made a lot more money if I put in the effort and everything else, I fully understood more if I had some kind of mentor or anything, you know, I could blame others, but I also just didn’t really wanna pay attention at that point. So going back would be, would be very different. What I also, um, learned is that I’m very hostile to authority. Um, and I learned that in, in becoming a coach and, and, you know, we give assessments to people and if you’re gonna give assessments, you have to take them yourselves. And the person who gave you my assessments, like you really hate authority. And that was kind of, uh, a good learning, uh, thing for me.So, so everything I didn’t like about corporate, what I’ve learned actually came from me yet. I was always look looking externally at who I can blame whether it was my boss or somebody else or, or whatever. I always had a really good view from leadership leadership respected me, peers respected me. They knew my value. Um, they saw it more than I did. I remember the president in one business coming to me and said, you have to tell me what you want to do. If you wanna run any business within this company, I will get you to run that business. And I just looked at him and said, okay, whatever. And, and it wasn’t, you know, it sounds so ridiculous, but I didn’t know how to articulate what it was I wanted to do where I wanted to fit in. And I didn’t really understand the value of good partnerships within the office.It was more about, you know, whatever. Um, none of the work was particularly challenging, which is nice. Uh, but I think that’s probably part of my problem and why, you know, I didn’t look for anything that was necessarily difficult and I didn’t really take any risk and I didn’t do any of that stuff. So that’s, you know, when I think about why I left, it’s really comes down to didn’t care, uh, which is my own fault. Uh, didn’t want to do more than the bare minimum, which is my own fault, but I also, you know, it’s my own fault because I didn’t understand. And I didn’t look to understand on what working in corporate actually entails and working in corporate and creating work and doing all of these things. We’re never taught that we just, you show up to the office, the boss tells you what to do and that’s it.And when you learn as you evolve and what the good, what the go getters learn and what the really good people in corporate learn is that they’re not just there to do work. You’re there to create work and create value for the organization. And that’s ultimately what they’re paying for. And as a business owner now completely changed my mentality. You know, before I went in and said, look, you gimme money. I’ll give you work. But if you flip it just a little bit and give it a little nuance, I’ll give you money. If you give me value, okay. And I’ll give you more money. If you give me more value and everything else. And that’s, that’s great. And, and so a lot of phone calls and now coming in from, from media and I’m, I’m doing these interviews on, you know, how do I quit my job and follow my path and my passion and my yada yada nonsense.Um, ultimately it comes down to, you know, your job could be your passion. If you just figured out how to do your work. I mean, that’s, that’s ultimately, you know, it sounds a little harsh. It’s a little too kind of pro corporate because I’m not pro corporate in that kind of way. So there’s this balance between what an individual understands on what they can bring and what they can do and how they can push the, the envelope in their way. Right? I mean, when we create something, we feel ownership and that’s, we have that responsibility to ourselves, not necessarily to the company, but to ourselves. That’s where our, our real value comes in. And now, by the way, this is how I’m getting into what I’ve learned. Corporate obviously wants you to do that because it’s good for their bottom line. And what’s fair and what’s not in terms of payment and everything else is, is to be hashed out.But you know what I see with now with people wanting to go back to the office, not wanting to go back to the office. Um, what I see is the people who are go-geters who understand what it means to work in corporate, the, the value of good relationships in person, the value of not just my work, but pushing the business forward. Those are the people that are excited to go back to the office because they recognize the value of being in the office. And there’s this entrepreneurial mindset that I’m trying to push. We’re not trying to push, but I’m, I’m talking to clients about pushing, because I think this is the future of, of, of work. Um, <affirmative> um, is if you put an entrepreneur in an office with a bunch of other people, that entrepreneur is going to be networking the hell outta that office, that entrepreneur is going to be creating work, coming up with ideas.They’re gonna be very energetic while they’re in front of people. They’re going to make that people time valuable. Whereas back my old corporate time, I would’ve gone in, plugged in the headphones, complained about having to get on a zoom call while I was at the office. And then I would’ve taken off as soon as possible. So when we think about going back to the office, there has to be value for you and going back into corporate and everything else. I never had that bigger view of me pushing the whole business forward until now. Um, or until, you know, the past couple years, this philosophical view of something bigger than myself, my team, right? We it’s, it was always about me and what I did and my little work and, you know, I can get my work done just fine and work it from home, whatever it is.Um, I hear that a lot and that’s great. Maybe you can, but just because you are getting your little bit of work done, there is a bigger picture. We need perspective. Are you pushing a business forward? And, and I was talking to one, uh, colleague of mine, who’s so happy to be back then office. He said, yeah, just ran into this other guy in the office. If I didn’t even run into him, we wouldn’t have come up with it. They created some new insurance product and they were doing all this stuff. And now it’s, you know, it’s blasting forward. He would not have gone down that path if he hadn’t seen that person in, in, in the office. So I understand why corporate wants people back in the office, at least some of the time it’s pushing the business forward, not necessarily just getting work done.And, and when we think about remote work, we think about leaving corporate, the desire of, you know, the frustration of the individual versus the business, kind of this meta philosophical, you know, I will give you what I want to give you and pay me money. And, you know, you can go into the whole labor discussion and, and theory and everything else. Some companies are set up really, really well for remote work most aren’t, but some really are, and that’s fine. Good for you. That’s great. They can make it work. There there’s a cultural aspect to it. There are communicating expectations of it. There are, you know, there are ways that it can work, but you as an individual have to fit into that, you have to create the work and do the work that’s going to align with that kind of work, virtual workforce and, and, and everything else.Um, otherwise there’s a social wellness aspect, right? I hate the term family, right? Companies of family, we’re family, yada yada, yada, uh, it’s a bunch of BS, but there is a, a social aspect to being in the office that should not be overlooked. There’s validity to that. Now, again, you have to understand how to use the network, how to use the social and all that, but that entrepreneurial mindset, that time of creating value, not just for the business, but for you. This is ultimately for you. When we think about creating value, it’s good for the business. That’s nice. And the people excited about going back into the office are positioning themselves to grow in that company and do more. Okay. But creating work, taking effort, ownership of risk, taking a risk and having it work out. This is when we talk about passion, when we talk about what I want, and I want this, you know, thing, and I want, you know, I want to know where I fit and I want this passion.I want this drive. I want, you know, whatever I’m looking for, something, I don’t find it here. It’s ultimately up to you to do that. And it’s not outside of the company because what’s gonna happen. You’re gonna leave that company. You’re gonna go, I’m gonna go leave corporate and go work for like a non-profit. And you’re gonna do the same amount of work for less money. And that’s great. Good for you. But you’re still gonna be frustrated because you’re not tapping into the risk effort, risk reward type of thing, in terms of creating something, right. Passion is about, you know, creating something. I wanna follow my passion, passion to be a musician, go ahead and be a musician, have your job fulfill whatever it is that you wanna do, it’s gonna pay for that. Okay. So you can do both. Uh, but ultimately when we talk about this passion, nonsense and everything else, it’s, I mean, it’s not nonsense.It’s about, what’s gonna get you outta bed in the morning. You’re creating something. And I, I miss that. And that’s what I’ve learned. I’ve learned that being an entrepreneur, being outside of corporate is, you know, if I were to go back to corporate today, I’d be creating the hell outta work, right? Not just doing a job, we’re creating work. We want something that we could be proud of. When we think about mentors that we had and the leadership of previous companies, those people created something. And the question I would leave you with today is, is what are you creating? And I’ve asked that a few times is, you know, the creation of work is, is ultimately what passion comes from and, and quitting corporate is we’re not creating something in corporate. Now we could blame others. We could blame my boss. Doesn’t give the visibility.I don’t get the feedback I need. I don’t get, you know, yada, yada, yada, whatever excuse you have, then get feedback another way, help your boss, give you the feedback that you want, articulate, where you want to go. I want, uh, a promotion in two years. Am I on that path? What do I need to change today? What do I need to change in, in two quarters, open up that conversation. Yes, your boss has an obligation to do more for you and to get you to where you want to go. But they’re also busy and they’re thinking about themselves, all right, you can’t blame your boss or your office or your culture for ultimately what you are responsible for, which is your development, your career, your growth, and everything else. It’s a tug, a pull, a push pull tug of war between the two that you have to be very involved in.Okay. So that’s what I did not know. And what I do know now about being in corporate about taking ownership, accountability, understanding, um, what it was I needed to do to, to get that passion, drive desire, to get the promotions, to get the recognition, to get all of those things that I claimed I wanted, but I didn’t want to do the work to get it. And work is, work. Work is hard. All right. To get those types of things. Now, the question, what would I go back to corporate? Corporate’s easy. Um, and so I always do this whole debate. Do I go back to corporate? Do I not go back to corporate? Do I go back to corporate? Do I not go back to corporate corporate? I can mail it in and it’s easy money. Um, but not anymore because now I have to create work.Am, am I actually going to get that value out of it? Corporate is easy, but it’s also frustrating, right? I’m hostile to authority. Apparently, according to my personality assessment, uh, am I going to fit in well with a boss and that’s gonna be difficult? Um, but there is a, a creativity, if I, I would consider going back knowing now what I know, but I, I would dictate what it was that I wanted to create. And it’s this understanding of, you know, how do you teach your teams to become philosophical? How do you teach them to think about the bigger picture of creating work of some kind of, you know, whatever it is that, that, you know, they, they can bring you’re hired for a reason at your company. And you hired these people on your team for a reason. And we say, we want to give them the, um, autonomy and the freedom to make these decisions and do that.This is, you know, it’s part, culture, it’s part boss, but it’s very much the individual. And are they able to, to do that? And are you giving them the, the capability to do that in your organization? So, yeah, I’d consider going back to corporate, if it were the right fit. Um, knowing now what I know, I really like the flexibility of having my own business. So I probably wouldn’t do it, but I’d consider it. I’d be open to it if the right thing came up, um, you never know, man, look, the world is, the world is evolving. But understanding if you’re thinking about leaving corporate, recognize that, you know, if you’re thinking about going the entrepreneurial route, it’s a lot of work that you have to create. You’re selling your business, you’re creating the business, you’re doing product for the business, whatever it is, whether it’s a service business or an actual product, you’re networking the hell out of everybody.You have to raise visibility, nobody’s paying attention, all of this stuff, you have to do it all. Okay. Very difficult. It’s fun. It’s rewarding, but it’s rewarding because you’re creating something. That’s why entrepreneurs love what they do. What are you creating in corporate? Right? It’s almost, you know, when we think about, I could be an entrepreneur today and I could run my business and put up my shingle and do all that stuff, which I do, or I could take it and be an entrepreneur within the confines of an organization, right. Where I get the computer system and the structure and everything else where it’s slightly different, but it’s within the context of something else. It’s the same mindset that we have to do. When I think about financial advisors, the way financial advisors work, they usually work for like a big company and I’ll use that example.Cause I used to work at finance, but financial advisors jump around and they pay whatever you pay a financial advisor, a portion that goes back to their company, right? So they pay like 40% of whatever they make to Morgan Stanley, UBS, JP Morgan, whatever it is, um, because advertising and everything else. And, and you’re part of that structure, right? So you’re giving up a percentage to go to that. Sometimes they go out independently and they take on all of those expenses and it’s slightly different. It’s a very different kind of model. It’s the same with you. You’re giving up, I don’t know, 40% of your freedom, X percent of your freedom to work within those confines, but you get additional structure, right? You get the, um, the days off that maybe you need, because you can’t really take a day off as an entrepreneur, cause people are gonna forget you.And, um, you know, do you get the leverage of a team and can you build something bigger? And it’s just a very different environment that you can, that you can work in. And what I encourage everyone to do is start thinking in that entrepreneur mindset of you are ultimately responsible and accountable for all of the work that you can create. And that’s why I, I quit corporate because I didn’t understand that. And now I do. And, uh, I hope that’s helpful for you as you’re thinking about what you are going to do over the next few years, with all the change in the world and everything that’sHappening. And, um, it’s certainly an exciting time. It’s crazy time. Um, but we have to recognize where our, our place is within, within the bigger confines of, of an organization or, you know, whatever it is. So, um, with that, that’s why I left corporate. That’s what I think about now. I hope that was helpful. I hope you have a fantastic week. Um, yeah, I’ll talk to you later. Have fun. Enjoy bye.

Today we are talking about culture and how it relates to what I call the “soft words” of corporate. I’ve touched on some of these before, but I’m coming at it from this angle because it continues to be relevant, clients are still talking about it on the daily, and, also, because I love this stuff.

I also find it amusing that I speak so much on these topics given my background in finance, where “love” or “vulnerability” were replaced with F bombs.

We’ve all heard that culture eats strategy for breakfast. And it appears to be a nugget that many organizations continue to struggle with addressing. There is a breakdown from a macro, values-driven charter in an organization and the micro, individual interactions that people have in their day to day work.

I’ll be direct – I recognize that at first blush, many often interpret soft words and terms like Forgiveness, Love, Vulnerability, Psychological Safety as weak. I get it – I see it in my client’s faces when I discuss it with them. However, after speaking through this with them, they very quickly see the strength and power that comes from adopting them.

Our insecurities, on an individual level, convince us that other people will see us as weak if we are vulnerable, if we forgive, or share some kind of “work-appropriate” emotional component at the office. We feel it would be a crack in our power armor, and one that impacts our ability to succeed.

However, when I think of leaders who are effective; those who impress me and I wish to emulate there is a consistent theme. It isn’t based on perceived power – it’s the fact that they appear comfortable in their shoes and are comfortable with themselves.

I often talk about my time in finance, especially working in communications during the financial crisis of 2007 (stress, anyone?). I see a lot of similarities then to what we are beginning to experience now. Those executives I worked with fifteen years ago that were most successful, and survived the “down economy” were the ones who had this figured out.

Why it matters

We spend crazy dollars to bring in expertise, and yet we don’t invest the same money and effort in creating and driving an environment in which they can be themselves. We don’t want to hire insecure people, yet there is some aspect of insecurity in all we do. I know it – because I’ve both dealt with it myself and have constant conversations about it with clients.

Recognizing that insecurity is a cost of doing business, we as leaders need to be the example in helping people learn how to articulate their challenges (many of which are emotional) and work through them in a logical and productive way.

How it manifests

You may have heard me drive home the “macro change requires a focus on micro you.” This is the same – there is a personal component. Since these words are driven by insecurity – we must teach individuals to address it.

In manifesting these words, philosophies and behaviors, we have to make them our own. We need to articulate what they mean to us, internalize and then test new behaviors that are authentic to us. And this is where most change management programs fail – we speak about the general values we want our employees to espouse, yet stop short of welcoming the testing phase of how people can make it about them.

This is an incredibly uncomfortable exercise and risk for us to take; after all, we are dealing with our personal insecurities. But the only way to differentiate and evolve is to address them head on. Pick your word, explore it, test it, practice it. You will appreciate it and it will pay dividends.

And that is ultimately what we are looking to teach and manifest in our employees. We want people who are secure in their decisions, abilities and questions. We all have challenges and problems; but if we want to teach people how to survive the new economy, “leaning into” individual security is where our focus, learning and development should lie.

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Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for joining this week. We, um, we’re gonna talk about soft words today. The soft words that every culture, an organization and individual says we need to have yet, nobody actually wants it to manifest in a realistic way. Uh, and it’s, um, it’s high time. We did it. It’s high time. We, we chatted about it. I’ve talked a little bit about previously on the podcast, psychological safety and how, when I mention it to clients, they roll their eyes and they say, that’s the weakest sounding thing in the face of the planet. But when you explain what it is, they say, well, yeah, of course that’s, that’s the culture we want. Of course we want that, uh, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, um, we had the people from the forgiving app talking about the word forgiveness and how they’re bringing forgiveness into the workplace, which is such also a soft word I asked ’em about that.It sounds like such a soft word. And, and they talked about how it’s such a strong word and how the people who can own it are the ones that are really the most productive and the strongest, uh, among us. So, uh, it was a really good perspective on that. I encourage you to listen to it. So I feel a little funny talking through this one, but these topics need to be said, these soft words, like forgiveness, love this love vulnerability, psychological safety. I’m having these conversations a lot right now with clients on an individual, on an individual basis, right? People aren’t really talking about it from a culture wide. They’re talking about what we need to do, but not how it manifests. The conversations I’m having are with individuals on how they can make it real for themselves. They don’t want to be perceived as weak.That’s the first response. When we talk about any of these words, I don’t want to be perceived as being weak. I’m giving up, uh, people are gonna walk all over me, right? The culture doesn’t allow for that. But what I, when I explain it to them and we talk through it, they realize that there’s a lot of power that comes with controlling these words and taking ownership of these words. Um, humility always comes through for some reason, humility. It’s okay for people to say humility. And, you know, I’m, I’m humble and trying to be humble, but I, I feel like that’s insecurity coming through where they’re just, it’s a roundabout way of saying I’m just too confident and I need to remain humble in some kind of BS, whatever, trying to, you know, it’s like one of those humble brags about how amazing and confident you are, and you’re just trying to temper yourself.So I don’t really include humility in this, even though though people say it, but the, the words and the reason I’m talking to people about this and the, and when we talk about culture, we talk about an organization. We talk about how they want to foster these cultures that have, and embrace these words. And I’m gonna talk about why they’re important and, and how to manifest it. But, um, these individual individuals have to make it real. Okay. And that’s one of the difficult macro micro things about organizational culture is, you know, when we talk about these,These philosophies that we want, and, and this is the culture that we want, and these are the values we have and all of these things, but it has to manifest on a micro individual way, right? An individual has to make it real. And why that’s the case is because these words, vulnerability, forgiveness, uh, love, right? All of these are the ones that are just top of mind right now, but there are so many others they’re driven by. And the reason people don’t embrace them is it’s insecurity, right? We’re afraid that people are going to perceive us as weak. It’s this imposter syndrome. We are not up to the task. We’re not an authoritative leader. Uh, we’re not dictating what it is. And, and there’s this, you know, manifest or, or this, just this bundle of, of garbage that comes around all of these words. And I attribute it to we’re being told what leadership is all of the time we’re being told what people are supposed to do.We’re being told all of these things on what a leader is. They’re authoritative they’re decision making. They lead people follow. Um, and that’s not right. It’s just not, you know, it’s, it, it doesn’t, it doesn’t, it doesn’t work. <laugh> it just doesn’t work. Now, these words, when I was talking to the forgiving people, um, these words I told ’em the story about when I was becoming a coach and I was studying to be a coach at Columbia, um, and great program top tiered individuals. Uh, and when I say top tier, like heads of HR and, and businesses at major brands, like these were people who in from Brazil, Australia, like it was, it was legit. It was a, a legit group of people. And I was learning just as much from them as I was from, from the actual program, but the word love was being thrown around so much.And I come from finance. Okay. You don’t use words like that. Like you use the F word in finance, that’s it like, that’s you, you drop the F bomb to accentuate what you’re trying to say, and you dictate and everybody goes and does what they’re supposed to do. So it was, it was a little odd, you know, I’m looking around like, you know, people using these words, but I, I started to embrace it throughout the few weeks that I was in this where it, it actually had real meaning. And what I had learned was, you know, my interpretation of these words and the way I thought other people would interpret it was wrong. Right. And it was amazing how productive the room was when people just matter of faculty use these terms. Like it was, you know, the love of each other and humankind and forgiveness and vulnerability.And what does that actually mean? And, um, when I think of leaders, the ones that I wish to emulate, the ones that I see are incredibly effective. Um, the ones that impress me, the consistent theme, isn’t power. I don’t see them as you know, I wouldn’t describe them as powerful because they don’t exude that crazy kind of, you know, misinterpretation of power, right? The way we think about power. Um, the thing that makes me admire good leaders and the, and these are the best leaders, they appear to be comfortable with themselves. They appear to be comfortable in their own shoes. And when we think about using these words, that’s what we’re talking about. They’re secure in their decisions. They’re secure in their abilities. They, they have challenges. They have problems, just like all of us. Uh, they recognize that nobody has their together at all.Like nobody’s got it. And so if you have to lean into something, lean into yourself and your capability and what you’re aware of and embracing the fact that you don’t have it, you leverage the people around you. If there’s something you don’t have somebody else does, and you partner with them to accomplish whatever it is that you need to do once you hit a certain level in an organization and people don’t tell you this. So I’ll tell it to you. It’s the ex your expertise gets you up to a certain point. But once you hit a certain level, it’s not about the expertise that you as an individual bring, it’s the expertise that the people around you bring and that you can leverage. And it’s what those people bring to the table. It’s your cohort that, that it’s the people you can get to rally.And we do this by recognizing our own limitations and then pushing through it in a unique way. So when we think about vulnerability love, and, and we’ll talk about the culture stuff, why they’re important, because there’s this internal, external thing on, you have to be secure enough with yourself to embrace those words and do those words and, and, um, recognize what vulnerability is, what forgiveness actually is. But then there’s also, how do you drive that culture in other people and get them to see it and recognize it for the powerful self control that it is the powerful, you know, you’ve explored yourself and you’re comfortable with who you are. You’re comfortable with being wrong. You’re comfortable with all of these things because you recognize your own individual value. So when we think about the soft words of corporate culture, it starts at the top comes all the way down, but how do you get people comfortable with embracing those types of words?So let’s talk a little bit about why they’re important. We spend in organizations, crazy amount of dollars to bring in expertise. You are paying so much money to bring in these people who are supposed to be experts. Uh, we want them, we want their perspectives. When we talk about diversity inclusion, all of these things, we want those perspectives. That’s the value of diversity and inclusion and equity in all of these things. It’s the right perspectives at the right decision making level to make your organization better, to make more robust decisions. That’s what people are talking about. It’s not a numbers game on how many people of this and how many people of that and everything else. It’s not, that’s not what it is. It’s often misinterpreted that way, but that’s not what it is when we bring in those people though, we get that perspective.And so we’re spending all of this money bringing in the expertise, but if we haven’t given them the opportunity, opportunity to voice that perspective, the opportunity to say they don’t know. I’m curious about that as well. That’s a great question rather than, you know, you have to be the expert and tell us, and if you’re not doing it, you know, that’s one of the big challenges that corporations have is we’re spending so much money. These people aren’t executing because we haven’t given them the opportunity to execute. We haven’t created this environment where they can express their new ideas, their thoughts, they have to follow whatever your particular format is. And it doesn’t necessarily always fit. And that’s a challenge. And, and a lot of people are aware of this. This isn’t a new idea. A lot of leaders are aware of it. A lot of HR programs are aware of it, learning and development is aware of it, but they’re kind of following the old script.They haven’t quite ripped the bandaid on this new economy, new way that we have to create a culture and learning and development in particular like learning and development, talent development is, needs to be completely reinvented. Okay. Call me by the way, call me, cuz I’ll tell you how to do it. Um, it’s not PowerPoint presentations. Um, it’s God, it’s not PowerPoint presentations. It’s not compliance training. It’s not this old way that, you know, but anyway, that’s a different topic for a different day. Um, but people follow example and they follow it at the top. And when I think about robust leaders, it’s not about sharing everything, right? It’s not about being vulnerable and, and all that. It’s about teaching people to find a way to express their feelings in a productive work way. Okay. So when we think about work, you got logic and emotion.We as individuals align our self worth with our work product. So when you attack our work product, because something wasn’t up to snuff or whatever we get defensive, right. Uh, and, and how do you get them to articulate? It’s not me that you’re attacking. It’s, it’s, you’re attacking the work and that’s great and I can make it better. And how do you make this a productive environment? So I can talk about whatever we have to train people, how to have these difficult conversations, where they’re comfortable with themselves, but separating themselves from the issue at hand.I don’t wanna hire someone who’s insecure. Okay. That’s it. I mean, that’s, when I think about the criteria of who I’m gonna hire in my organization insecurity, I could find that really quickly in my interviews. I could find that incredibly, incredibly quickly. And if you look back on some of my clients, I’ve blown up, uh, certain processes and, and things just because it just can’t. For some reason, I draw this out. People I draw in security, out of people and they get very defensive and uncomfortable, which is not always a good thing, but it’s very good for the business. Um, but I want them to be able to articulate those insecurities and challenges and work through them in a logical way. Okay. And I’ll work with people on that. People I hire, I will work with them on that a hundred percent. Right. Recognize it for what it is now.I’m not gonna sit there and call ’em insecure and everything, but we, we know it. So a lot of organizations are trying to embrace this thing called radical transparency. We want everyone to be open to say all of these things and that’s good. Uh, but it’s misinterpreted. It’s not really set up the right way in a lot of ways, uh, because there’s a civility and manners component that people don’t quite have people promoting radical transparency are a little too blunt. Um, they don’t quite have the civility aspect down to make that really productive. But when, when we think about why it’s important and, and creating this environment for people to articulate separate and articulate those emotions from logic, from how to talk through and giving them an avenue to talk through it and not in this like whiny way, but in a productive work way.So that people say, oh yeah, I dealt with that too. And here’s how I did it. And maybe here are a couple of ideas and, and making it okay to talk about these soft words, your organizational productivity is going to skyrocket it. Your cost of hiring new people will plummet because these people have figured out a way to work in your cultural environment. You’re not gonna have to, you’re not gonna have this turnover that always happens. So how do we manifest it? This is why it’s important is you don’t, you know, you want to, you’re investing in these people. People is an, it’s an expense, right? It’s an expense and you’re paying them for their time for some value out of that. Okay. And how do we create, uh, an environment to do that? And how does it manifest? And of course I said before, it starts at the top, uh, but it’s a macro challenge that has to focus on individuals.There’s a personal component because it’s driven by insecurity. So words like vulnerability love, um, you know, feelings, people just don’t even use the word feelings. Mental health is becoming this, you know, thing of just whatever it is. It’s not actually being dealt with in an appropriate way, because there’s an emotional component to it. So a leader in their own skin who’s comfortable in their own skin can do it. And so how are you taking your leadership team to learn how to articulate things like vulnerability and forgiveness and everything else, by the way, I have a program on that, call me <laugh>. But when people see you double down on your insecurities, they see how fragile you crack that already fragile vision, right? So when you, you’re, you’re driven by insur and you’re vulner. You’re not really embracing the vulnerability. And, and you’re trying to hide it by being loud, boisterous, whatever it is, we’ve got these stress mechanisms and, and we can identify them.We know what they are, and we, once people know what your insecure defense mechanisms are, your cracked window shatters, right. You’ve lost your authority. And so, um, and, and this is, this is a male and female problem. Okay. I want, I wanna know this. It’s not, you know, I, I talk about this macho BS, right. And people think about men right away and doing it. And it’s a real male problem, but it’s very much a female problem as well. So it’s both, um, when we think about these soft words, it’s funny, you think about the soft words and people have an image of women, which is crazy, right? Because they’re the strongest ones in the office. Typically, when we think about the macho BS that comes with, and, you know, not embracing your feelings, you’re like, oh, it’s the men, but it’s the same issue.We just have different visions based on the words that we use on who they are, it’s everybody. Okay. So in order to, to get it to manifest within your organization and to embrace it, you as a male, female, whatever, we have to define these words, we have to make them their own, our own. And then we have to teach people how to have conversations about it so they can make it their own. They have to put their personal stamps on it. So vulnerability, we’re defining it, not about sharing your, your home problems from the weekend, but, and, and all your weaknesses and everything else. But it’s about being open to the idea that you may be wrong. That’s how I define vulnerability. Okay. And how does that, how does that sit with you and how do you do that? And that’s a lot of the work we do as coaches is talking through these so that you can make it real for yourself.Love is love, right? And it’s okay to use that word. It’s about respect. Um, not in a creepy way. You don’t wanna use love in a creepy way. Of course, it’s a workplace, but you know, love for a fellow human type of work. Right. And it’s okay to say that. It’s okay to say that at work, you know, I have love for the people in this room and everything else. I would never have said that 15 years ago in finance, it sounds ridiculous. But when you say, and you open up that door, there is a human connection that we’re talking about. Forgiveness is power, recognizing what you can control and taking control of it, psychological safety, it’s this major focus for organizations defining what that is from an organization where people can talk and be open and give ideas without fear of repercussion or embarrassment or humility or humiliation, whatever it is.That’s the culture that you want when you understand what psychological safety really is. So in manifesting these, we have to take a little bit of risk as leaders, right? We have to test it out and it’s uncomfortable and it’s uncomfortable because we’re dealing with our own insecurities. But the only way to do it is to practice it. The only way to get past it is to practice it so that you’re comfortable with it. It’s the same with public speaking. It’s the same with anything else. So pick your word, vulnerability, love, whatever it is that test it and see how it is. See how it goes. If you’re leading a team, say you want to test it and have other people try it. You’ll appreciate it. It’ll pay dividends. So that’s how your soft words will pay dividends. If you start to embrace it, it takes a little bit of work. I encourage you to try it. Good luck. You want help on it? You need help on it. You want me to talk you through it? Gimme a buzz. I love this stuff. It’s uh, it’s a lot of fun, so good luck. Enjoy your week. And I’ll see everyone out there soon. Thanks.CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings.

There has been a lot of discussion going around about the similarities between now and 2007. This conversation is happening in the marketplace, but I’ve also been involved in similar discussions with leadership teams throughout a fair number of industries. Despite organizational differences, the conversations are strikingly similar.

While we can name similarities (marketplace pressures, expected downside to the economy and organizational distress), I’m more focused today on what tactical steps individuals can take in order to be in a better position when whatever challenges come. 

There are two aspects that are relevant. First, and I’ve said this many times before, I believe that organizations have an absolute obligation to help their employees prepare for the market downturn and correction that experts are calling for. Secondly, that while that’s nice in theory, the reality is that the responsibility for preparing still comes down to you, the individual. 

My time working in Executive Communications, Public Relations and Investor Relations during the financial crisis gave me a unique perspective and strong lessons in what good leadership and effective communication looked like during times of difficulty. It’s where I earned my “chops,” and these lessons inform my work today. 

This week’s podcast outlines what executives did and did not do well during that difficult time. The successful executives were able to name and understand their multiple audiences; articulate value in a contextual way, and maintain a larger perspective that allowed them to make short-term decisions towards a longer-term vision. It was a tall order, and those who couldn’t do it well became, what I call, “victims of a down economy.” 

Today, we see similar stresses, especially for individuals in corporate who are “feeling” the difficulty around the corner. They can read the news, yet are unsure or feel overwhelmed on where to begin. 

While we can’t control when or how the next crash is coming, we know that one is guaranteed. And our focus shouldn’t be on when or how it comes, but rather stacking our deck so that we are in a better position than the masses when needed. This means taking the time to strengthen our network today, before the rest of the industry scrambles to do so. It means taking a short time to go through the exercise of understanding and being able to articulate our value in a meaningful way, and also understanding who our audiences are going to be. 

More details on the podcast, and I encourage you to begin the work. Those who get started sooner will have a much easier transition through the next few years.

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Welcome to bellwether. We’re gonna talk about similarities and processes and cyclical stuff. It’s all kind of fun, but it’s very, very relevant. What I wanna talk about today and what I’m going to talk about today. I wanna talk about similarities between now and 2007, which I’ve talked a little bit about in the past. I’m gonna talk about it again because it’s extremely relevant and every single one, every single one of my clients, I’m having a conversation in some way about this and this isn’t just relevant today. It’s gonna be relevant later. Everything is cyclical. We know about that, but I wanna chat about, uh, similarities between now and 2007. And when I say 2007, for those who may not, um, who may, it may not trigger particular memories, the same memories that I have 2007 was the lead up to the financial crisis and, and the downturn and, and all of that negative, uh, difficult time that, that people reference.Um, now I don’t wanna talk about similarities today in terms of investing, because that’s where most of it goes. When we talk about economy, we talk about how people can invest in different ways and prepare for it that way. I don’t wanna talk about that because this isn’t the form for that. What I, I do wanna talk about similarities between now and then I want to talk about what I learned back then, because what you may not know about me and my corporate career, I was working in executive communications, PR investor relations, business strategy, all that stuff in the financial industry during the financial crash. So I had a lot of exposure to executives who did things well and not. So I’m gonna talk about that, what they did well, and didn’t, and then I wanna talk about you as an individual, how you can set yourself up for, um, whatever it is that’s coming.So I will say two things right at the right at the top. Well, maybe three things, one, um, we know that business is cyclical. We know that it’s a process. So when we look at challenges that are coming, we could find similarities to the past and we make good decisions based on that data. That’s what we do. We take examples from what happened before, what happened? How is that relevant today? Let’s reflect, okay. How do we make decisions going forward? That informs our decisions today. Some of these cycles are extremely long. Like if you read the Ray Dalio books, he’s looking at ’em over centuries and, and everything else, some of them are much shorter, like market corrections and everything are every what, 10 years or so give or take 10 to 15 years. And that’s where we’re looking at ourselves now. Um, so that’s that two, I don’t wanna talk again.I don’t want to get into, um, investing right now because that’s, I just don’t want to do that. Right? Whatever, invest how you wanna invest. I’m not gonna tell you what’s right or wrong, but I want to talk about how you’re getting yourself ready personally, individually for this, because there’s a bigger picture than just how you’re investing, um, and trying to time the market. I’m not looking to time the market. That’s also stupid. Number three, I will say you as an individual. Well, you know, before I get to you as an individual, I wanna start everything right at the top. I have a belief. This is my number three. I have a belief that I’m all organizations have an absolute I’ve said this before. I’m gonna keep saying it. They have an absolute obligation to prepare their people for whatever change is coming. I’m talking to boardrooms right now.And these conversations are happening in, in every executive team is discussing it. This isn’t filtering down to the people in your organization. Yet they hear the experts talking about what’s coming. It is just, it’s not expensive to do this. It’s about telling them, you know, giving them insight into the decisions that are being made, but also giving them the skillset or ability to prepare for this on an individual basis. Um, one is the right thing to do. Uh, and two, it, it, it will build a loyalty, um, and is revamping your people strategy. And it’s setting yourself up for success later. So I won’t dive into that, but that is a firm belief of mine. If you are running an organization and you have not been doing this call me because I can, this is I have the plan. And the, the thing that we could structure this out, it’s a cascade.Every client is talking about this, but let’s get into number four because this is what I want to talk about today. You as an individual, right? It’s nice to think that the organization would have this obligation and do those things for you and, and take care of you and do all that stuff. Um, but ultimately most of them aren’t gonna do it. And that’s, that’s just a reality, right? We could, we could talk about the organization is supposed to be preparing you for all kinds of stuff and two-way loyalty and all kind of nonsense. Right? It’s great. In theory, it doesn’t happen. In reality, you, as an individual are solely responsible for preparing yourself for whatever happens in the next 12 to 24 months. Okay. You could blame people for what happened. You can blame people for whatever, but ultimately it’s up to you. And I’m gonna talk to you about that today.So we’re gonna talk first about similarities between now and 2007. I’m gonna tell you what the executives did well, and didn’t do well in 2007. And then I’m gonna wrap this up by what can you, as an individual take responsibility for what steps can you take to set yourself up? Uh, so that relatively against your peers and everybody else, you’re in a, a much better position to, to execute on whatever it is. You have to execute when, when things go haywire. So, um, we don’t know when, so let’s talk about similarities, um, between now and 2007. Um, I won’t get into to how it happens, but, but if we were to take just a big picture, look at now versus then the cycle, okay. We’re, we’re looking at the, the economic cycle without getting to very broad strokes. Um, there’s a debt bubble. Okay. We got it.Housing crisis back then. It’s credit today. Um, when we take a look at the buy now pay later stuff and, and all of that. And amongst the other things, money is cheap. There’s tons of money out there. Um, firms are taking hits, significant hits the economy. Like people are pulling back, they’re starting to feel it. They’re not spending money. It was financial back then. We’re seeing it’s already in technology. Technology firms have already been laying people off. Um, so there’s a lot of organizational distress that’s happening. Um, that a lot of employees are talking to me about. We feel it. We don’t know what’s gonna happen. I’m nervous. Am I still gonna have a job? Right. It’s it’s. And on top of that, do I have to go back to the office and all kinds of other stress? It’s, it’s crazy. Um, there’s a false confidence in people’s money, and they’re starting to realize it, uh, because they don’t fully understand how it works.So before it was in, in buying houses for like crazy mortgage stuff that, that blew up and then investing in things with mortgages that didn’t, they didn’t fully understand the tech, the financial firms didn’t fully understand it. Now we see it with, um, especially with crypto, um, people don’t fully get it, and there’s gonna be a lot of people holding the bag, uh, and it’s gonna be empty. So there’s a, there’s a significant, and we’ve been saying this for a while. Um, it hasn’t happened yet. That’s fine. This isn’t about timing it. We just know most people will recognize there’s going to be a crash. Okay. Um, we don’t know when it’s gonna happen.We just know it is going to happen. And relatively soon, anybody who tells you exactly when is gonna happen is, is wrong, right. Or at least, you know, broker clock is right. Twice type of deal. Right. They can guess. Um, but it’s nothing more than a guess. And that’s why I’m not telling you about investments in how to invest. So, um, but we know it’s a guarantee that the market’s going to crash at some point how much it is. Nobody knows. Um, but as it collapses firms will collapse with it. They will stop spending money. They’re gonna lay off people and it’s the swift correction and layoffs, whether it’s the next 12 months, 24 months, who knows. Um, but it’s going to happen. So that’s the similarities between now and 2007 and the feeling you have, the uncertainty you have, there’s volatility. Things are getting a little crazy markets down a little bit.You’re looking around at your friends who might be getting laid off and you see the LinkedIn things more and more putting open to work. And, um, there’s just disruption everywhere. And so you just, you know, kind of like your, your spidey senses are up. So, um, it happened before in 2007, it happened before in 2000, it happened before, you know, we can look back in all of these shorter cycles, right? 10 to 15 years. We know it’s happened before, what can we learn from it? So what did I learn back in 2007? Um, here’s what I learnedIn 2007. Well, you don’t probably don’t know about me. I don’t talk much about my career, my corporate career. So I’m gonna talk about it just for a minute. The majority of my corporate career, 20 years, whatever, um, was spent in the financial industry doing before the financial industry, I did a lot of international training and, and corporate training and stuff like that. But I evolved into executive communications, public relations, investor relations, business strategy, like those four kind of things. And it, it evolved into different, different things. Um, whether it was preparing for earnings calls to writing speeches, to let’s put together the strategic plan for the next six months, 12 months, five years, like those were the, that was the type of work I was doing in 2007. I was doing public relations, investor relations, communications, work, executive communications work in the financial industry during the financial crisis.It was, it’s where I earn my chops, uh, burn myself out. Um, worst possible job at the worst possible time you could probably have. And fortunately for me, I was at a firm that had a very strong executive leadership team, and we were in a relatively good position compared to other financial organizations. So, um, that being said, it was a ho it wasn’t a horrible job, right? It was, it was a stressful, difficult job. Right. I worked with great people. They were wonderful people. Um, but, but my, my fortunate aspect of this, when I look back and think about it is that I, I learned so much from good executives, these men and women who were able to navigate it in such a good way, that it impacted everything else that I continu to continue to do in, in my career. So, um, I learned a lot, there were executives who did it well and executives who didn’t and the ones who did it well survived.Um, and the ones who didn’t, I mean, they’re still alive. They survived, but <laugh>, but they became victims. I call it victims of a down economy, right. They weren’t working there anymore. And, um, and that’s what I want to talk about today. Let’s talk about what those executives did well, because there’s a big difference between today and 2007. And the difference today with the next downturn is that companies have invested in technology. That’s going to backfill gaps. So it’s going to be a little more abrupt. Normally, when you got laid off, you just landed at another company within the same industry and doing the same kind of job, but whatever, right. Small industry, small world, whatever technology is not, not going to allow for that anymore. So let’s talk about what the executives did well, who survived. And this is translatable to any industry, has nothing to do, um, with your industry.It has nothing to do with your organization. It has nothing to do with any of those. It has to do with the individual as an executive C-suite MD, I would say director and above. These are the people who did extremely, extremely well. And if you’re below director level, right, middle management, and below translate this to articulate your value in the moment. We’re gonna talk about that in, in a, in a second, because it’s going to become survival time. And that survival time comes from starting now. So here’s what, what the executives did. Well, number one, uh, they understood their message and their audience, and the message was different by executive. But we had three audiences when we were talking during the financial crisis, we were talking to employees of the organization that, yes, we’re strong enough. You’re gonna be okay. We had clients, your money safe here.And we had investors. So, and, you know, please continue investing us. We’re we’re solid and everything else, same message, but nuanced based on the audience, now you can translate that. That was for just finance. You could translate into retail, you can translate that into, um, consumer goods. You could translate that into law. You could translate that into anything based on who your three audiences are. Okay. And I’m, I’m talking about it from an executive standpoint, but even a little bit below, right? Are your clients, people within the organization, are the people working for you? The people you’re reporting to like all of these are different types of audiences, what’s your message in terms of value in what you’re doing, uh, which leads me to number two, those executives understood their value, not on the work they did, but where they fit into the bigger picture.So there were two aspects. Yeah, you’re doing work day to day, but where do you fit into the bigger picture? And that’s what they, they were able to articulate that extremely, extremely well. In addition to that, they understood a larger cyclical vision and understood where they were in the context of the world with this smart kind of this two shall pass, right? They’re thinking ahead for five years, the world will be better. In five years, we have to make short term decisions to get us to there. So they were able to do this efficacy exercise, put their value on top of it, and then communicate it to three different audiences. That’s what they did. Well, those executives who were able to do that skyrocketed throughout the organization, throughout the industry and, and continue to be successful today. And I’m gonna talk about how you can, how you can translate that into yourself.But when we think about what you can do today and what those executives did, it really fundamentally comes down to what’s the big picture and having perspective, understanding where you fit in that bigger perspective, and then communicating to who it matters to communicate it to in a way that they will pick it up, understand and embrace honest and, and of course truthful and, and doing it, um, with sincerity and authenticity and all of that good stuff. Um, so that’s what the executives did. Well, the ones who survived any kind of, of down economy. So let’s talk about you, let’s talk, let’s talk about you as you sit on your run or riding in your car, as you listen to this and sit in traffic and play this in the background while you do work in multitask, um, let’s, let’s make it real. How can you prepare for the downturn so that it’s not as impactful to you as anybody else?And, and there’s a larger program, I suppose you could call it that I do a corporate that we can, it’s like a full day thing that we can get people really ready, but I’m gonna give you kind of a shortened version. I want you to, to do, um, three things and these are not difficult or, um, it’s just not difficult. Okay. It just takes a little bit of time. These are maybe, um, two 15 minute exercises and then a longer bigger one, but we’ll, we’ll talk about that. The longer, bigger one, I’m gonna start with first network. Um, we want to set ourselves up for success when that downturn happens. And that happens today. Okay. Oftentimes when the market crashes and there’s a downturn and people get laid off, everybody scrambles into the networking world to try and find a job and start networking. And it’s too little too late.The point of a network is for people to share their network with you when you need it. But you have to be tapped into that network already. Nobody’s gonna give it to anybody fly by night. Um, we don’t hit up our networks for sales or jobs or anything like that. Those people who already have meaningful relationships are then able to use their network for meaningful introductions that will put them at the head of the pack. So that is step number one, pull out the Rolodex and get in front of people today with no agenda, other than building a relationship. It’s a, a relationship economic thing that you can start today. Every day, pick three people or, or every week, pick three people, whatever, like it’s not, or every day, just send out one note, find one person, send a day, Hey, checking in. Hope you’re doing well.How about, uh, zoom call just to catch up or let’s grab coffee. I’m gonna be in your neighborhood, whatever it is it’s, it’s going to be, it’s, it’s a task item that you’re gonna have to do. And I highly recommend you do it immediately because your network is going to get stressed. There’s gonna be a stress test on your network as well. It’s not gonna be as strong as you think it is when the market collapses. So you need to really invest in that today. That’s number one, that’s gonna be the most amount of work that you’re gonna have to do, but you can do it, have fun with it, right? It’s not, you’re not selling anything. It’s literally checking in with people and saying, hello, number two, and meeting new people right there. There are ways to meet new people. Uh, number two, articulate your value.This is one of the 15 minute exercises, right? You could sit it down. We gotta talk about your message. And I’m not talking about a message in terms of your elevator pitch, it’s gonna be scripted and blah, blah, blah. You know, you’re gonna say it. Nobody really listens to it. And, and you know, we’ve completely bastardized, um, how we amp ourselves up for networking and, and everything else. Let’s just talk about what value you bring. It could be bullet points, but sit and do it so that you can articulate and think about what value you actually bring and recognize it. So you could talk about it in just a matter of fact, way, not a recitation of stuff that you do, but value and curiosity into to why you can bring value to your organization, because you may not be doing that right now. You may be able to articulate or bring a value that you are not doing based on the way that your job has evolved.So think through the value that you can actually bring and then think about how to message it, right? Not as a script, but it’s just, this is what I do. Well, this is what I enjoy doing. This is, you know, oh, this is whatever, right. Remember when I did this, as you’re talking about reviews, getting credit, taking, you know, taking credit for the value that you bring is going to be a very important aspect to, to the downturn. And you wanna be prepared to do that. You’re able to do that when you understand what value you bring, and then finally, number three, who’s your audience? Think about who your audience is, who do you need to be in front of 15 minute exercise? And when I think about not just individuals categorize them, right? I talked before in finance, we had shareholders and, um, uh, and employees and clients.What are your three buckets? And how does your message, the value that you’re articulating? What nuance goes in based on those three audiences. And that’s another quick 15 minute exercise. And once it’s done, you literally sit down. It’s 15 minutes. It can evolve over time. As you think about it, go for a run, think about it. You know what? Yeah, scratch that. I don’t wanna do it again. You’re going to have it and dust it off when you need it. It’s a one time, 15 minute exercise that could be dusted off later. It will put you miles ahead of any everybody who’s scrambling. When something happens in the next, I don’t know, 6, 12, 24 months, whenever it’, who knows when it’s gonna happen. Right. But it’s gonna be done. Do it this weekend. Why waste your time?You know what I mean? Why, wait, why, wait, why? Wait until it’s too late. That’s what I say. Um, <laugh> so that’s it. Lot of similarities, sorry. This went longer than I thought it would. 20 minutes. Um, a lot of similarities. I’m seeing it. I’m talking to clients, I’m talking to leadership teams. I’m talking to all of these people about how to save the business, but nobody’s, you know, well, some of them are right. We’re actually putting together people strategy items, and what’s the program that we can teach their people. And, um, how do we set them up for, you know, a three, four kind of session thing, just to get people thinking about what it is that’s coming and how are they preparing themselves in this type of work. And there’s, you know, plenty more that we could do. But, um, so organizations are, are talking about this, your responsibility, however, is going to be taking care of yourself.And so I encourage you to do that. I hope this was helpful. I hope you enjoy it. And good luck with everything as the world, as the world turns and evolves. I hope, uh, I hope this is meaningful and helpful and, and sets you up for much, much, much success. As we continue to navigate this crazy world as always I’m here. If I could be helpful, feel free to reach out. I look forward to seeing everybody at one of our events. We have some events coming up in person, virtually check out the website, bellweather hub.com for more and as always, I look forward to seeing you out there. Thanks.

Hey folks – this week I want to cover another one of those “skills for the new economy” that breaks things down a bit differently than normal leadership development. This time – it’s about believability.

I’m seeing a significantly higher desire from individuals to be recognized for their influence or authority, and in an effort to drive this perception, they are building up their “answers” to big challenges, support with facts and limited research.

While this may have worked in the past, the challenge is now elevated. For others to recognize this influence, we have a new level of focus, and that’s believability. Believability, as I dive into the podcast, is a pairing of influence, authority, credibility, reputation, trust and more. For those looking to move ahead at the workplace, it’s a game changer.

There is no shortage of information out there; facts that we can pull out at random times to seem like we know what we are talking about. But what we are learning is that facts require context, and understanding the implication of these facts in a broader context is a step too often not taken far enough.

Trust in our opinions and commentary is something that is earned over time, and we can take tangible steps in order to build this reputation and become more believable, and thus more valuable, to those around us.

We need to elevate our learning, understand our belief systems, ask really good questions and teach those around us the process of coming to a solution.

It’s no longer possible to just be an “idea person.” We have to become thinkers that elevate the group. Rather than just talking about what’s possible, we need to challenge ourselves and others to think philosophically and tangibly at the same time … it’s where the real value lies.

Good luck, and be believable!

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Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for being here today. Today on this episode, 105, I think 105. Yes, 105. Today. We’re gonna talk about believability, believability. I want to cover it, what it is, why it’s important. I’m going to tell you that believability is one of those skills that is not developed, but is going to need to be in the new economy. Uh, I had a client who was very big on believability, dove in deep into believability. How do you actually become believable as a human being? And he wanted it more for the people who are speaking up in the organization. How do you just build this credibility? Not even, but credibility is one aspect of it, but it’s not all of it. Uh, we’re gonna talk about all these, you know, authority and, and, and influence and credibility and, and all of these types of things that fall around to it.But the ability to be believable as an individual is becoming more and more important, uh, as we look to become valid members of the executive suite and, and bring real value to organizations. So if we think about broader, you know, you’ll hear me talk all the time on, on this podcast about what are the, what are the skills for the new economy, right? This isn’t 1990s, PowerPoint presentation, crap. What is the stuff that you actually should be focusing on that they’re not teaching you at work? They’re not investing on you in work. These are the things that are, that are actually valid, uh, and different things to get you to think about your capability, your influence, your credibility, your reputation, whatever it is in a different type of way. And believability is one of them. Uh, I’ve talked before about self-efficacy, that’s a huge one.Um, and there’s more and more and more ability to communicate, et cetera, etcetera, this falls under that, that kind of category. So I want to talk to you about believability, how to become believable and what does believability actually mean? And I wanna right at the front say, this is not about making a fact more believable. Okay. Um, or a story more believable or your belief more believable because that’s not you, it’s about making you more believable as an individual. Uh, and, and part of that obviously is there’s going to have to be an accuracy aspect. You can’t just kind of make crap up in order to just be believable because then it will eventually blow up in your face. But how do we make you believable as you sit around the senior leadership table, where people are saying, all right, what that person’s saying is valid, right.I don’t have to take it. You know, I could just take it as, as, as valid. There is this weird conundrum that we have, you know, we have this desire for things like authority and influence. And, and when we think about our development and our success and where we make it to in, in terms of our organization and our company and our business, and, and it’s why we want promotions, right? It’s this external validation that we’re all looking for, but our desire for these things versus what the organization organization sees. There’s a disconnect generally. And, and this disconnect presents challenges for some people. Okay. So our desire for authority and influence, but whether or not the organization sees it are to two things that need to be, to be married in some kind of way. And so more and more, this, this ability to have influence.Uh, and we see this, um, we, we think we need the answers for, for us to have influence. We think we need to go find out all this knowledge and spit back facts and, and do kind of, um, you know, it’s okay, I’m an authority. I know what this is because I watched TikTok video and, and stayed in the holiday in last night. And, and we think this gives us some kind of influence, um, or authority. And, and the challenge you have with that is that, uh, we’re constantly fighting misinformation on, on all sides, right? No matter who you want to go to. So, so if you sit and watch a TikTok video from authority, um, it’s wrong, right? And, and it’s constant half information where people take facts, but then it turns into misguided information. And, uh, for some, their hearts are in the right place, right.They just, they’re really trying really hard and they wanna be valid and they wanna, you know, they they’re looking for this influence and they want to do it. Um, others are just trying to get TikTok views, um, <laugh> or Instagram views or, or whatever. Uh, but at the end of the day, information is now flying at us faster than we could process, which we know. Uh, and one of the things we’re going to have to develop is our reputation as a believable, incredible individual, to help other people’s filters, as they’re filtering information, how do you become the one that they say, you know what? I could ignore this stuff because this individual is giving me trustworthy and accurate information. And I believe that, uh, that, that, that you are who, who you, you say you’re going to be. And so that’s why it’s not about making a fact more believable because the facts are out there.And we can, we can find that it’s about making you more believable, um, as an individual. So in, in order to do that, we have to elevate our education and we have to elevate our learning and our interpretation of data. And, and it needs to evolve with the time. So it was this great video I saw on TikTok <laugh>. Um, but I like the way the guy framed it out. And it was, you know, it was long, it was, um, longer than it should have been for a TikTok video. But basically his argument was we have information at our fingertips, um, and it’s easier than ever to know facts, right? So facts are everywhere. Pull up your phone, right? When was Tom petty born? You got it done, right? Whatever. Um, but the development of why they are relevant, these facts, why we need to be aware of them, uh, why, whatever we ignore the context that informs the fact, because we’re just repeating a fact.And when the context change, it makes the facts inaccurate. And it’s a problem with statistics. Whenever somebody starts quoting statistics, I instantly put them into the mode, like bucket. Um, because they’re, if you’re using statistics to D defend it, I’m instantly thinking that you’re being selective in the information that you’re choosing to do, um, or to use. So anyone can repeat facts. Uh, what I want you to do as an individual is, is wisdom goes far beyond just repeating facts, right? We know theory, um, but not reality. Uh, how do we, how do we translate these facts or ideas or beliefs or whatever it is into some kind of competence or action, uh, or steps to get something done. And when we think about the new economy providing value, uh, the transactional world of you give someone your time to create something for the business and the business pays you.It’s no longer enough to be an idea person. It’s no longer enough to just think stuff up. You have to understand the steps in order to get there. And that’s where real value comes in. And that’s where believability self-efficacy. These are the things that really go hand in hand. Um, and I, I see it very often. Maybe I’m overly sensitive to it, especially in the coaching world. Um, these people come out and said, oh, I took classes in leadership. So now I can lead a team. And you say, you’re not really a good leader until you actually lead people. You can’t be a, a leadership coach unless you’ve actually led a team, right. Because there’s a reality to it. How are you gonna be a business coach if you’ve never worked in a business? Okay. So we could talk about the theory all of the time, but we know that reality is, is a very different, very different puzzle to crack.Um, believability comes with expertise and expertise comes from experience and experience comes from not taking a class of reading a book or watching a TikTok video or anything else. It comes from actually exploring, asking questions and answering the questions that you could be purely curious about and figuring that out and figuring out your, your own typical types of solutions. It comes from learning in the moment comes from harsh, harsh lessons from making mistakes, owning up to them. Uh, a lot of the time I’m working with clients and they want their people to do something different. They want to change behavior. They want to do whatever. Um, and, and the harshest lessons are the best ones. If you have someone who has to own up to the fact that they made a mistake, they will not make that mistake again, if they have to articulate the mistake that they made, right?Because it’s extremely uncomfortable, right? There’s consequence for our actions and our own understanding that we missed. The mark is a life lesson. And when we’ve missed the mark before suddenly our credibility and believability go significantly up in the future, because we’ve actually experienced whatever the other people are trying to experience. Um, so believability, I mean, when we talk about that, what is it? Um, we talk about credibility is one of those words, um, influence authority. Trust is a big one. Uh, reputation is a big one. So all of these words really fill up, um, to do that. And, and what I would say is if I could wrap what it is before we talk about how to do it, how to build your believability, um, we have to create a reputation that we have a desire to find the right solution and not just be right.And there’s nuance in that. And that’s, um, easier said than done, of course, but we have to have a curiosity mindset where we’re asking questions and on wrapping it, and we could talk about all different sides of whatever it is that we’re looking to solve. So how do we do this? How do we become more believable? Uh, we have to be open to changing our thinking, okay. Which easier said than done. Right. And that doesn’t really mean anything, but it means something to me. So <laugh>, I’ll do that. Uh, and, and I wanna give you some notes on beliefs. I’ve spoken before on belief systems. And I did a full episode on belief systems. What do you actually believe? I say, it’s one of the three pillars of your mental health, um, mental health. We talk about self love, right? Loving yourself, self care, take care of yourself, but then what do you actually believe?And the reason I put that into mental health, um, is because it’s part of our self exploration and understanding, and we don’t have to defend things because we understand things at that point. It’s this kind of constant curiosity as to what we believe in questioning ourselves. And, uh, you go into a lot of rabbit holes and it’s a lot of fun and it’s unnerving, but the more you do it, the more comfortable you get with it. And it’s, it’s really exciting. So we tend to in life, we just repeat things. We’ve been told things our entire lives. Um, and the question is, do you actually believe them? And are they just ingrained assumptions that you’re operating on and, and using those and just repeating back, and you can’t really defend it. And we find ourselves trying to defend something we don’t actually believe. And then all of a sudden your believability is shot because you just start shouting and you get defensive and whatever.Um, when we start to explore why we do or do not believe anything, and this could be anything, um, it could be as big as do you believe in God, to what’s the best way to parent to, um, who’s the greatest baseball player of all time. It doesn’t matter. Uh, but when we think about that from what do you actually believe we learn, um, that in order to truly believe something, we have to fully understand the other side. And when you fully understand the other side, you’re having a very different type of conversation, because now you’re just curious about why people believe certain things. And it’s, um, more about exploring an idea rather than just telling people what’s right or wrong. Um, and if you think about the old stoic and, and all of that, they never came to solutions. They just, you know, talked about what if and why, and, and, and all that stuff.So, um, when you’re able to speak objectively about your beliefs, um, and expect and objectively express how you’ve heard the other side, you just have a whole different level of, of conversation. Um, and that’s great, but it goes beyond just what you believe. That’s just one step. It’s a process of figuring out what you believe, just like being, becoming believable as a process and figuring out whatever it is. You’re trying to be an authority on. Okay. Repeating facts does not make you an authority understanding why those facts exist, uh, makes you more believable and makes you more of an authority in understanding that. So, um, and so that’s it. So we want people to, to, to trust the process for influence authority, authority, credibility, whatever it is, believability, we can elevate our status within the organization by becoming more believable by becoming, having a reputation as a believable individual.And we do that by asking really, really good questions. We do this by elevating the group around us to become more philosophical. It <affirmative> it, uh, by elevating people’s thought process, by challenging the way that people think in a really productive way to come to solutions is, uh, a complete game changer in, in the new economy, complete game changer. And so, like I said, just a minute ago, it’s not enough to be an idea person. Um, it might be enough to be a thinker who can elevate the thinking of the group, uh, and rather than just talking about, what’s possible, we have to talk about how do we do this and what if we challenge things and what if we did it in this way, and what are those steps and what does that look like? And having those types of conversations, um, in both a philosophical and a tangible way, there is real, real value in that. And as we think about moving up in a development standpoint from an individual contributor to managing a team, to getting to the C-suite where it’s very philosophical, enterprisewide, let’s talk about theory. There is this full range of reality and theory that we have to mesh together and believability is, is one of those big key components that’s gonna help you get there. I hope that was helpful. It was quick, it’s more just kind of a ramble today. Um, but I’ve been wanting to talk about believabilityFor a while and, and I’m exploring it myself. And it’s something that’s helpful. I think, uh, I’m learning a lot and I hope you learned a lot too. So I would encourage you to think about what makes you believable. And it’s not just repeating <laugh>, it’s not just repeating TikTok videos, uh, as much as I love it, and talk’s a thing, but it’s Facebook posts, whatever social media is one, um, where you get your information is very, very important, um, and do it and explore and learn. And, and that’s tons of fun. So have fun, be believable challenge thinking, think about yourself and do well. And with that, I hope everyone has a wonderful week and I’ll talk to everyone soon. Thanks.

This week I cover generational differences, something consistently relevant but especially today. It’s a fun topic, mostly because we LOVE to hate on other generations. But the hate needs to be tempered – there’s lots of learning to be had.

We typically speak of generational differences in the context of work (Boomers vs. Millennials!), but the conversation needs to go significantly further than that. The differences have major impact on societal changes, political changes, community and home changes; and as we sit at major decision points, we have to be able to learn from different generations and incorporate the perspectives.

Here is why: context changes. The year 1985 was viewed very differently from people in their 20s, 40s and 60s. The same is true today.

Growing up at the tail end of Gen X, my perspective has been formed by the way we were treated by previous generations, as well as the context of our experiences and major events. Gen X was the “lazy generation,” and at a macro level, you can see that it’s left the generation as skeptical, yet capable, of doing important things.

Whether you find yourself in the Boomer set, Gen X, Millennial or Gen Z, we all have opinions on our own generation and others. But it’s important to remember that we each generation has validity of perspective; one that we can interpret and learn from, but those learnings and lessons must be adapted to today’s context.

The world will evolve in spite of each generation, and we will see each generation arc over to a struggle for relevance. It’s happened before and will continue to happen. No matter the decision you have to make – the learning mindset of approaching and understanding others will provide value and influence that is far bigger than the short term decision of today.

With that – have a good week, enjoy your learning.

“We look on past ages with condescension, as a mere preparation for us….but what if we are a mere after-glow of them?” – JG Farrell, The Siege of Krishnapur Your Title Goes Here

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Welcome to bellwether. Thank you for joining again. This week episode, 106. We’re gonna talk about the different generations. Very topical right now. I like to do topical things and we’re talking in a topical sense about the difference. The generational differences between boomers X, me is X millennials, Z, um, Y ABC, and every other letter. Uh, and I’ve talked about this before. Typically we talk about differing generations in the context of work boomers and millennials. It was like the, the battle of the century, the <laugh> right. They hate each other, um, the okay boomer and the, the ignorant millennials and the, you know, whatever it is that they want, but generationally, we there’s, there’s a lot of context by generation that really influences our, our worldview and our perspectives. And it’s kind of fascinating, the more you dive into it and the, the different generations that are out there and, and the way that they approach things.So this leads to beyond the workplace, things like societal changes, legal changes, political changes, uh, all very relevant today. And, and we can learn from these different generations as major decisions get made, or when we’re thinking about something relevant to ourselves. So for example, um, one time a while ago, I did a, uh, a podcast. I think I did a podcast on retirement and what baby boomers can learn from millennials in terms of the mindset of preparing the mentality of preparing for retirement. Now, we always talk about retirement in the context of financial decision, and do you have enough money to, to retire and go do whatever it is you want to do? Um, but there’s a psychological aspect too. And how do you approach it from an entrepreneurial standpoint to a keeping busy standpoint, to a side hustle standpoint, um, to a project based, you know, how do you keep yourself busy without doing the full grind kind of thing?And, uh, at the time, this was a few years ago, it was very, it was very topical from a millennial, uh, standpoint, um, point. Um, and just to be clear, uh, I’m not a millennial, I’m not a baby boomer, I’m at the tail end of generation X, which is the greatest generation. I will say that. Um, but I understand my wife’s a millennial and, and so I’m, I’m closer to that millennial so than I am to the boomers, but, um, but there was a time, you know, when the first baby boomer millennial kind of go at it, aspect of challenging each other, uh, I mean, it was probably at least a decade ago. Um, the millennials were probably what, late twenties, mid twenties. And so, um, you know, it was at that time when a generation was having fun, they should be having fun, um, and boomers resented it. And that kindOf led to the whole entire, um, difficulty, but, but the mindset and the way the millennials had approached work, thanks to the technology and context of everything that had happened was very different than the typical way that the boomers would’ve approached and even previous generations, because the world had changed completely. And, uh, you could kind of see the boomers resented the youth almost. And I mean, we and gen X dealt with it as well. We were the lazy generation, but, um, but so it’s interesting that generations hitting different times, you know, everyone’s gonna hate gen Z because they’re young <laugh>, but, but their, their world view is gonna be very different. So where this all came up from and why I wanted to talk about it. Uh, and, and really the point of this podcast is to just to get you to think about it.It’s not like you wanna solve problems with this thing, but, uh, I have a, a young lady who works for me, her name’s Leah. She has all my social media, um, because I hate social media. Um, I just hate doing it and I don’t do it. And, and it’s almost table stakes. You have to do it if you have a business. And so I’ve got Leah to do it for me, and she gives me a list of things to do, and I’ll do a quick video for whatever she asks and I put it out and, or I send it to her and she puts it out. Um, and there you go. Right. Uh, great, good, good, good, good. She does good work and, and I like it, but we were talking about stuff, but she wanted to, um, she said, can I repost something from Gary V for those who don’t know Gary Vayner, Chuck, he runs Vayner media.He did wine.com. He’s kind of a forward thinker, very popular, lots of followers. And I, I kind of jumped on the fence on that one. Uh, and it led to a longer discussion on why generation X really doesn’t care for Gary V um, from my, from where I sit and I’m, I’m probably, it’s not that I don’t care for him, but I, I, you know, the value is questionable and I’ve kind of ebbed and flowed on, on Gary V. And, um, it just led to a longer conversation on, on generational differences and, and she loves Gary V, um, which is great. And there’s a generation who loves Gary V and, and I, I think, you know, my initial response to her was the reason we don’t really care for Gary V is that generation X, if you could give us a word to define our generation, it would probably be skeptical.Uh, generation X is known to be very skeptical of everything. Um, and, uh, I, I think it’s a great, obviously I think it’s a great way to be, um, we tend to dive into, or at least I do sometimes I go into cynicism a little too much, but, you know, skepticism is, is kind of relevant. So, um, the value of what people are putting out, which is, um, we’re skeptical of it. And, uh, and it’s just based on our experiences and the way that we were raised. And, and, you know, we were constantly told we were the worst generation and the lazy generation and, um, with all of our grunge music and, and good stuff from the late eighties and early nineties, um, it was the first time that, that we had almost that scale. We could share information and, and boomers could share information.And, um, we’ve gone through more changes than, than some of the other generations and the younger generations are going through even more than that. So, um, so much of the discussion that we had, uh, with Leah was, you know, a lot of the discussion normally is between boomers and millennials, but there’s a gen X and gen Z one that’s going to, to shake out. Um, and it’s going to be driven by, or, or it’s going to result in something very different because gen X’s skepticism is very different than, uh, I think if you used the word to describe boomers, not being a boomer, uh, I think the, the non boomers would probably describe them as selfish. The non gen X would probably come up with other words besides skeptical that wouldn’t necessarily be positive. Um, millennials would come up with very different words to describe themselves than the other generations, um, as well as, as gen Z, because, you know, we’re, we think of ourselves as each generation thinks of ourselves is fantastic.But, um, when we think about Gary V back to the story, uh, the reason we’re skeptical of it, and, and I’ll, I can only talk about my perspective on it is when he first started making, uh, a ruckus, I guess, online, I was fairly dismissive of it only because it was just speaking of platitudes, right. There was no real value in it. Um, and, uh, and I said, that’s great, but it doesn’t mean anything. And, and then I started to come around and say, all right, some people can get value out of it. It hits people at the right time. Find maybe somebody gets value out of it. Um, but you know, what’s the message. And, and what’s really the point. And then I kind of went back to, you know, this whole NFT stuff, and yes, it’s valid. It’s gonna change the world and everything else.But, um, again, what’s the value and, and people, I think my issue with Gary V now is people blindly follow without fully understanding. Um, and so while Gary V has value, I would say gen X looks at it from a slightly different perspective. You know, some of us could hustle in multiple ways. You know, the big thing about Gary V was about hustling and, and there’s, there’s validity to that. And I think a lot of millennials and younger generations really were able to hustle, take the weekends to go do the garage sales and flip it and do all those types of things. And you’ll see that now. And, and I would attribute all of the, the COVID hustling, the people buying up all the properties and trying to turn them into Airbnbs and doing all of the stuff that comes down to hustle and side income and everything else, um, which is okay.Uh, gen X, we’re probably a little too late for that. Um, we have a different context, you know, money’s tied up in mortgages and kids and, and everything else. Um, so we’re at a different time in our lives, millennials who maybe in their late twenties, early thirties, haven’t quite made that yet are able to use some of this extra income to, to do these side hustles. And that’s great. And so that’s, that’s probably relative. Um, but my, my issue is, um, we need to take things like Gary V and interpret it based on where we are in that current moment. And, and each generation is in a different place at that current moment. Um, and, and I think the challenges with, with generations, I feel like boomers probably got the, the, the thing in the fifties and the sixties, right? They hated the different types of music and the older generations hated them from the late 18 hundreds.You know, the, you know, these crazy kids and calling young kids snowflakes it’s been around forever. Um, but there is a validity to the young generations, like gen Z. There is an idealism that comes from less exposure. It’s part of it’s naive naivety. However you pronounce that naivety naivety, um, and more exposure impacts our worldview. Um, we suddenly become more right and less of a learner. Um, and, uh, you know, we always joked in gen Z about being the worst class ever. We were told the worst class, this, we were the worst class the school has ever been. And I feel like that’s probably every, every grade that comes up. Um, but when we think about the context of different generations, the boomers growing up in just massive growth, it’s the end of world war II. It was so not typical. Every like the us was at the top of the world.Um, they didn’t really have to work the way that other people have to work. Other countries had to work, um, and that impacts their worldview now, whereas the us is on a slight decline, if not a precipitous decline, um, their perspective on how easy it was previously is not necessarily relevant today. And, um, you know, me thinking about being gen X, I didn’t have my first email address until I was in college. I didn’t have my first cell phone until I think I was a senior in college. Um, you know, we grew up before nine 11. I remember coming off planes and my parents meeting me at the plane. Um, we didn’t carry around the phone. There was a lot, you didn’t know everything about gen X is we just didn’t know. And if you wanted to learn something, you had to go to the library and actually look it up.Um, and we didn’t care to know it, and it was okay. And, and we had to figure things out and you know, now we have, now you look at the next generations who are growing up in this context where all the information is at their fingertips. And I spoke last week in last week’s podcast. I think it was, um, in terms of believability where information is constantly at our fingertips now. And how do you become a believable individual? Because just having knowledge doesn’t really do anything for you, just knowing facts. Doesn’t do anything for you. It’s how do you turn that into wisdom and interpret it into a, a different type of thing. So thingsLike Gary V promoting all this hustle stuff and, and everything else is fine. If you know how to interpret it for your particular situation. Um, and we do that through learning and we can learn from different perspectives. So I think the main point of today is I’ve been rambling for like 15 minutes is we can learn from other generations, but we have to apply their learnings and lessons to today’s context. Today’s context is very different than anything that came before us making rules in the 1980s or making decisions in the 1980s are fundamentally different than the decisions we’d be making today. Um, I see it a lot in the coaching world, senior coaches, the gray-haired coaches who are coming out, who were Titans of business in the eighties and nineties, who are trying to talk about what Jack Welch did is completely irrelevant today. It’s so outdated.And we find now that a lot of the things that were, you know, law of the land, the rules of, of how business operated and, and everything else from the eighties and nineties are really early, two thousands are irrelevant 20, 30 years. Right now, I just saw something. When I, I remember the early nineties, this movie came out called dazed and confused, and I loved it. It was, I’ve watched it hundreds of times. Um, and it was about this one day at this one high school in the 1970s, it was like 1975 or 76 or something. Basically it was 17 years before the movie was made. And if that movie was made today in 2022, it would be about 2005. And when I watched the movie in the early 1990s, the 1970s was a completely different world. Yes, I was born in the seventies, but you didn’t really get the seventies.Right. You just heard about it from before. And when you watch this movie in the early nineties, which was, you know, we were listening to Pearl jam in Nirvana and, and we were doing cool things and we could use computers, but, um, it just looked like a completely foreign place. If you look back now from 2022 to 2005, it seems like it was yesterday. And, uh, it feels like it was yesterday. So, so generations and context change abruptly right before our very eyes. And we need to do our best to try and keep up, but our context and our value and our relevance changes very quickly too. And if I were to think about the boomers and the X and the millennial and the Z, we all have defining moments, uh, defining economies, defining experiences, um, whether it was the challenger nine 11 or, or, um, any of the wars or whatever. Um, but the world is, is going to continue to evolve without us. And while each perspective has validity, the interpretation for its relevance todayIs, is consistently up for, for discussion. And if you look at where the, the different generations stand now, I mean, the boomers in a work context, especially are struggling for relevance. They’re trying to hold onto power. Um, but they are less and less relevant in the workplace. Um, and beyond I would say, right, I mean, they’re, they, they still are a juggernaut and they’re gonna be very expensive for the rest of us to take care of them and, and everything. And that’s just a fact, um, but they feel it too. And, and they feel they’re relevant slipping away. And gen X is just kind of in, in between, right. Um, you know, the bigger millennial group’s gonna come up after. And, and so, you know, our relevance is, is minimal in, in between these two larger generations, gen zer kids, but their perspective has validity, of course.And so the real struggle and challenge, I think if I were to, to wrap it in a nice little bow is relevance between generations generational differences are, are all about relevance and who’s relevant today. And when you feel your relevance slipping away, that’s a very difficult pill to take. And so the context of your relevance and how you create relevance is different. You don’t force it in, it just changes and, and that’s that’s work for you to do so. I just read a book, um, called the siege of Chris Nur. Uh, it was a fictional account of how the Brits kind of force themselves into India and India rose up. Um, but it was based in some reality. And, uh, they put this line in the book, J Farrow, uh, said, we look on past ages with condescension condescension. Um, we look on past ages with condescension as a mere preparation for us, but what if we are a mere after glow of them?And it was something that made me think, especially as I was thinking about the generational differences and everything else is we’re so condescending to other generations because they’re not us, but their perspectives have validity. And the light may be dimming a little bit. Um, but it’s not necessarily the cause of particular generations because the context of the world changes and we have to embrace that and we have to be open to that. And, uh, we have to respond to that in an appropriate way, um, because time will time will move on. So, uh, with that, I hope everyone has a wonderful week, something to think about generational differences and, and the older and the younger among us. And, um, yeah, I hope you think. Well, and I hope you have a wonderful week and as always, I’m, I’m happy to talk, chat with you soon. Thanks.

This past weekend I took the plunge and made the psychotic attempt to run an Ironman. I finished (over 14 hours later), and am thrilled that the anxiety of an unknown mountain is behind me. I’m happy I did it, more happy it's over, and further details on my experience are in the podcast (player below). That said, here are a few of the big learnings I took away from the weekend.  First, Anyone can do it. Training and preparing for an Ironman takes a ton of work, but anyone can do it. Completion takes commitment and desire; that’s it. I saw some people doing it with prosthetic legs; others were all kinds of ages and shapes and sizes. Everyone is different, and everyone has their own time.  But that’s part of the secret to finishing an Ironman - it’s “your” time, not anyone else’s. Focusing on you, and what you need to finish the race, is the only thing that matters as people whiz by you. Which brings me to learning number two.  It’s a mental event. People talk about the physical challenges of completing an Ironman, but it’s really a mental game, on two fronts. One, and this is fundamental, in order to complete an Ironman you have to believe that you can do it. You are drawing on your capability, your belief that you can put one more step in front of the other. That’s what you build on to complete the race Second, you have to stay in your lane. Once you believe you can do it, you have to block out everyone else. Everyone is running their own race in their own time. They have different backgrounds, did different training. One person may be on their first Ironman, another on their fiftieth. If someone blows by you on the bike, good for them. Recognizing what you need, and not anyone else, is what gets you to the finish line.  These mental items are the same for everything else, whether you are starting a business, writing a book, or trying out a new initiative. By focusing on you, and what you need, and recognizing that you are capable of great and crazy things, you are able to take the steps needed to accomplish anything.  It’s not a peak. Philosophically speaking, an Ironman isn’t “who you are,” it’s a step along the way. It’s a part of your evolution. We can all set crazy goals, accomplish them, and that becomes part of the person who moves on to the next item.  And when I think of Ironman like that, it’s now a part of me, and a part of the person who will try some other outrageous item (A book? New business? Who knows?). That, to me, is what’s most exciting.  We can all make crazy goals, but what’s thrilling and most astounding to me is that we are capable of reaching them. It’s an exciting prospect to challenge ourselves, fight through a bit of pain, and come out the other end as a finisher. I’ll be using this high to make the remainder of the year a bit more productive, and I hope to encourage you to challenge yourself in 2020! Note: If you are thinking of doing an Ironman (or other smaller event), feel free to reach out and I’m happy to share my training program, or just chat through the random questions people may have. With my buddy Larry at the end ...

Welcome to the holiday season. With Halloween behind us, and Costco selling Christmas trees, it’s important to think about doing something for yourself during the holidays: Networking. The holidays are the perfect time to network. There are plenty of opportunities for parties and meetups, uber amounts of people getting together in one place, and everyone feels generous and wants to help out. The table is set.  The challenge is that most people don’t like networking. They don’t like it because it tends to be anxiety-inducing and a massive chore. However, with a recession looming and the need for solid relationships growing, people can skip networking at their peril. What is refreshing, though, is that networking can be simple if we think about it in the right way.  People make two big mistakes when networking - which is what’s driving the anxiety. First, people wait to network until they need something. Second, they try to sell to the people standing in front of them.  Network on a High Your network is about relationships, and building good, long-term ones. To hold off networking until you need something doesn’t allow you to build the relationship equity you need in order to have someone help you. Those networking when it’s “too late,” (lost a job, need new clients) give off a desperation air that will make potential contacts uncomfortable. Much of the advice you get when trying to learn how to network is that you should do so with confidence. Much easier said than done. But when you think about it, we are most confident when things are going well. That makes it the perfect time to meet new people. It gives us the best reflection of ourselves, and gives other people the confidence to refer you for a job or new client. Don’t Sell to the People In Front of You The other big mistake people make is trying to sell to the people in front of them, or ignoring people that don’t fit their “sales mode.” It’s extremely short-sighted. If a sale comes up in the moment - that’s fine, great, added bonus. But the real focus of adding someone to your network is to meet the people that they know.  I met a liquor salesperson at a networking event once. We chatted briefly, and he cut it short because “he couldn’t sell to an executive coach” and went looking for a potential sale. But if we had continued the conversation, he would have known that I know more than a few bar owners, and have lots of friends and relatives in the liquor distribution business (that means bartender, FYI). I’m Irish in New York, for the sake of Pete. Everyone knows at least a thousand people. And for each person you add to your list, they know a thousand people. So if you met five new people at a networking event, they could potentially introduce you to five thousand people. Those are the people you want to meet and sell to, and it makes it much easier when you have an introduction.  We put too much pressure on ourselves when we network. I found it cathartic when all of this started to make sense - that I can now go into a networking event with no pressure; just the desire to meet new people and learn about what they are looking for. I’m happy to make introductions when I can, because what good is a network if you can’t use it to help other people? Next week I’ll be covering how to make an ask of your network … so I’ll put up more then! Have a great week! 

Last week we talked about the value and purpose of a network. The point of networking is to build a community; a group of people who best represent who you are and can help you grow as an individual.  Our network should be designed to motivate us, get us moving and help us be successful.  We all have a network in place. And a good network is powerful. Each person we know in turn knows many others. Each person in our network is in a position to recommend us to other people. They are our personal PR team - focused on laying the groundwork for a good introduction.  You’d be amazed at who your network knows. When I chat with my network, I learn that they know professional athletes, actors, senior business executives and entrepreneurs. Think for a moment about the most impressive people you know. Now think about how each of them can help each other.  Knowing people is “nice.” But what about when you need something? How do you leverage the expertise in your network to help you get to another level? The details are simple: focus on being both intentional and specific.  In order to make a request of anyone in our network, we have to be intentional in laying the “groundwork” for the ask. Leveraging any relationship requires equity. Don’t expect people to move mountains for you when you just meet them. There needs to be a mutual respect and understanding of how people can help you. We like to help people if they can help us as well.  When making your ask, be specific. Your network needs to understand how to help you. Have you properly articulated to others the details of what you are looking for? Your growth, and accomplishment, is significantly easier if other people can speak for you. Eliminate your acronyms, speak in plain detail, and most of your work will be done for you.  Finally, be open to new ways of thinking. Again - your network is a phenomenal representation of who you are. And you need people who think differently to challenge your best self. If your network isn’t getting you to think differently about your business, or who you are, then work needs to be done in finding those different perspectives. Why include anyone in your network that doesn’t challenge the way you think?  We are a result of the people closest to us. We want to help other people. Pick your network well, and they will make your life, business, choices and growth that much easier.  Happy week - enjoy it. For those in the States - have a tremendous Thanksgiving. And if there is anyone I can help network - just reach out!

I feel like a zen master with that title.  We are coming up on the end of the year; the time to be reflective, take stock of what we have accomplished, and plan for all that we hope to accomplish in the coming year. And in order to make this time truly effective, there is one primary area on which we should focus: the questions we are asking.  We don’t think about questions. They just exist - like nouns, verbs and Pauly Shore. When I ask my clients to define what a question is, they give a variety of answers that don’t quite ecompass the purpose of questioning. A question, to define it, is a request for information where you legitimately don’t know the answer. This year I’ve spoken often about the value of learning and entering situations with a “learning mindset.” It’s not my unique idea; there’s plenty of information out there on it. But, from what I have experienced over the years, there is no better way to get past any challenge that comes my way.  And in order to have a learning mindset, we need to eliminate assumptions. A tall order, for sure, but the way to do that is to ask a good question. I think back to corporate life and how often people were told to work on “listening skills.” That’s nice, but they are irrelevant if we are not asking the right questions. I think also of all the questions people did ask during meetings or over e-mail, dripping with sarcasm, agenda or snark. These aren’t questions - they are judgmental statements. We do it in our home life as well. Over time, we create assumptions. Due to the Principle of Least Effort, we know that our brains will take every opportunity to work as lightly as possible. So it jumps over details. Those details become assumptions, and in doing so, we fill the gaps with our own perspective, and that affects how we interact with people.  The questions we are asking ourselves are impactful to our own learning about ourselves. Over the next two weeks I’ll cover the questions to ask yourself to recap your year and to plan for the new year. Your capability, your growth, your levels of accomplishment and happiness and joy and sparkles are all a reflection of the questions you ask yourself.  No judgment, pure curiosity. You’ll be shocked at what you can learn about yourself. If I can recommend some books on the topic, I’d say the two best on questions that I have read are: Change Your Questions, Change Your Life by Marilee Adams and The Art of the Focused Conversation by The Institute of Cultural Affairs. Happy reading!

It’s almost time that we put a wrap on 2019, toss it into the memory bin and focus on going forward. We have evolved another year, which is long or short depending on how you look at it. At the end of a year, it’s a good pivot point to ask yourself the important questions of where you are and where you want to be on your journey. If we are lucky, we get about 80 or so of these pivot points, and considering that many of us are at least half way there, it’s important to take it seriously.  When we look back on the year, there are two buckets of questions that we should be asking. The first bucket is reflective (what did I do?) and the second bucket is forward looking (how do I build on this and go forward?).  Annual questions are big ones. They allow us to take bigger stock of what we are doing and accomplishing and separate the forest from the trees. How much have you evolved in the past year, when you think back to the person you were in January? The evolution gets bigger and bigger the more I think about it. When I started my list of things for 2019, I found I kept going back to it a week later to add more.  The reason is that we forget all that we do. And we forget the reasons why we didn’t do some of the things we set out to. It comes down to priority. And our priorities change. The person you are today is going to be making very different choices than the person you were a year ago. And that’s a good thing. My year was incredible - I turned 40, completed an Ironman, launched Bellwether and the podcast, gave up drinking, served with the Irish Business Organization, had my best business year and had great family moments (among many other things). I’m super proud of all of that. But behind the surface, there were a lot of  things that I didn’t accomplish this year that I had wanted to. I’m now in the process of reflecting on their priority and seeing if they should be on my list for 2020. The question of why they didn’t get done leads to important decision thoughts for later. Again, priorities. Here are just some of the questions I ask myself at the end of each year:  Was I the person I wanted to be? What did I accomplish that I set out to do? What didn’t I accomplish that I set out to do? How come?How do I build on both of these for next year?Is there any priority that comes off my list?What did I learn this year? What do I need to adjust going forward?How can I take all of this information and improve going forward?  It’s a lot of reflection. It’s a lot of work. But when you sit on the train, or commute to the office, or sit in the doctor’s office - noodle these around. You’ll be surprised with what you learned and how much you have changed in just 365 days. It’s exciting to think about. Next week, I’ll cover how to take what you learned and use them to prepare your 2020 goals (don’t make resolutions - they don’t work). More to come in the future … so stay tuned!

As we have put a wrap on 2019, it’s now time to focus on the possibility and opportunity that looms in 2020. Each December I set out to create my goals for the next year - and align my focus on what’s important to me and where I want to go over the next 365 days. It’s one of my favorite things to do - unbridled imagination of what’s possible and dreaming.  I’ve never been a fan of creating resolutions - simply because they don’t work. They live and die within a moment of hope, and when the rubber has to meet the road, we drop off. Gym memberships go unused, books unread, misaligned priorities failed. And the reason they fail is because they don’t align with our priorities and our values. If the resolutions were that important to us, we would be doing them already.  But that’s not to say a resolution doesn’t have value. Resolutions are generally a recognition that something needs to change. And when we are creating our goals for the next year, it could be a good place to start. Last week I talked about how we have changed over the past twelve months. The person you are today is not the person who kicked off the year. And it’s a good place to start as you plan your goals for twelve months from today. Who is the person you are looking to become?  Vision … Priority … Action Once we define our vision of who we want to be, it’s time to prioritize and take action. And that’s an important step to remember. An annual goal or resolution is ultimately a reflection of your priorities. Which priorities need adjustment? It’s an exercise in identifying what you can control and how you can implement the change you wish to see.  It takes levels of thought and reflection. Goals like hitting the gym or spending more time with family are nice, but you need to ask yourself why. What is the deeper desire driving it? How does it align with your values? How will these goals and priorities help you become the person you want to be come next December? Using Gratitude to Help The holidays are a busy time, for sure, but it’s also a time where people tend to be gracious, grateful, reflective and open. It’s a great time to meet new people and to effect change. There is a science to gratitude that shows a relationship between a “gratitude mindset” and goal setting. When we are in a “gratitude mindset,” it’s a time when our values and the things most meaningful to us are most prevalent.  So as I think forward to next year - I encourage you to challenge yourself with good questions on what’s possible. Think through those values and priorities that will help you get to where you want to be in a year. No matter how frivolous or odd your goals are - they are your goals.  Adversity will be there, but it’s easier to overcome when our goals and priorities are aligned with our values. You have the capability; you have the desire. Now you just need to prioritize.  And - bonus point - if you get this done early enough, you can share it with those people closest to you that you see around the holidays - their support will make it that much easier. Happy holidays, best wishes for a kick ass 2020, and I look forward to hearing about all you accomplish!

It’s the big day - a new year. It fascinates me that we are already at 2020.  For many people, I know the feeling they are having right now - the regret of making a New Year’s Resolution. It’s so easy to talk about doing so many things, and now it’s time to take action.  As I mentioned a few weeks ago in my podcast, a new year is just a pivot point - an opportunity to reflect on where you are on your journey and how you can take action to move forward. This is a decade of possibility. You have a month, a year, a decade to do whatever in the hell it is that you want. It will take work, but it’s your work.  Financial independence? It’s in your grasp. New career? Fit body? All in your grasp. It will take grunts, grit, and consistent focus - but it’s there, and it’s possible. The question to ask yourself is, what are you willing to sacrifice to get there?  I often hear at the end of a year people talking about how they need to “wash this year off and start a new one.” I used to like that phrase, until I realized it was the same people saying that every December. And when I thought more about it, many of those people aren’t willing to make the change they need to stop having to say that year after year.  In this decade of possibility, you have your choices. You don’t just have the time and opportunity to work towards something - you also have the accountability.  It’s a tough pill to swallow, but a cathartic one as well, to recognize that you are the one responsible for your choices. You are the one that dictates where you go each day, month and year. Yes, society and life throw circumstances your way - but you are the one ultimately responding.  You may not like some of the decisions you have to make, and they may be very difficult ones, especially in terms of relationships and who you spend your time with. But these are all decisions and reflections to be had as you sit and think about where it is that you want to be at the end of 2020, or on this day in 2030.  So remember - this is your decade. And the new rule is that there are no rules. When you take rules away, the possibilities are endless. It’s a slightly frightening notion for the new year, no? :)  Happy New Year!

This week I’m looking to be painfully blunt.  The majority of my job is to help organizations and people plan. One of my gifted skills is the ability to see many things that could go wrong, and in turn plan for them. Maybe it’s my way of becoming a superhero - get people to worry, and help them find a solution.  Getting you to worry Much has been made of technology, AI, and the future of work, especially in the past few years. While nobody can predict the future, we know that technology will impact the way we work. No, a robot won’t take your job in a corner office, but algorithms and AI will disrupt your industry and potentially cause significant consolidation (see Schwab buying TD Ameritrade). It’s time to think about how moves like this will impact you. Most of my corporate clients are preparing for a recession. Bonuses are being cut, hiring is being stalled, and there is a general feeling that a difficult period is around the bend. We can’t predict timing, but eventually it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - so you can expect it.  Here is why this is important. For the first time, we have enough technology in place to disrupt the white collar workers.  It happens all the time - companies merging or being acquired. Layoffs of “redundant personnel.” But this isn’t just the elimination of a company or a job - entire roles are going away.  Here is what traditionally happens in a recession: people lose their jobs, they spend time looking around for a new one, and they eventually get a similar job at another company. So … a bookseller at Borders might end up at Barnes and Noble. An accountant at Wells Fargo may end up at Bank of America. A business manager for Walgreens might go over to CVS.  Industry shuffles, network grows, life goes on.  What’s different today is that when this recession comes, the roles that are eliminated are being taken out across multiple companies. When Verizon eliminates operational role - that role is also being eliminated at Comcast, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint (by the way - they are merging).  And with the merger, they only need one management structure. You don’t need two managing directors of accounting. You don’t need two global CFOs. Your options have dwindled. And my fear for many people is that they are going to enter 2021 or 2022 in a situation where they haven’t prepared, aren’t positioned to navigate this new world. Finding your solution But fret not! I worry you and then I tell you the solution! It’s simple, but isn’t easy.  Your solution takes an investment of time and energy in you. Think of this as your 2020 project - how do you position yourself for a year from now?  It’s time to answer the questions on your skillset and your value. It’s time to learn how to articulate your skillset and value, because you may be transferring them from one industry to another. It’s time to build your network (they are your safety net). It’s time to take just those one or two steps that put you ahead of your peers. It’s not a lot of work - just an investment in time. The future is unpredictable, sure, but the fact that some kind of change is coming is not. We may not have all of the details, but we can do just the bare minimum that won’t leave us flat footed when the time comes. It’s uncomfortable, and we like to ignore the future for more pressing “in the moment” things, but this is one way to spend your time that will pay dividends in the future.  And, shameless plug, you may want to hire a coach for this type of work. Ahem.