It Gets Late Early: Ageism in the Workplace (Maureen Wiley Clough)

The fantastic Jen Saarbach and Kristen Kelly from “The Wall Street Skinny” podcast join me today for a candid and super fun crossover episode on the challenges women face breaking into and growing their careers in the male-dominated industries of Tech and Finance.

Jen and Kristen tell us how they started “The Wall Street Skinny” to democratize access to the world of high finance via their incredible podcast and lighthearted but value-packed social media posts. Turns out there’s more to the industry than we see in the movie The Wolf of Wall Street with Leo DiCaprio and Margot Robbie! Who knew?!

We all shared some of our career horror stories, including Jen’s (which she turned into a hilarious viral video) about how being a few minutes late to an interview can completely derail your shot at a big job. They also share that Wall Street is actually accessible to…English majors?!

But it's not just the hurdles of getting your foot in the door. Once you're in, we all face ageism (either levied against the young or the old, depending on the industry - we’ll reveal what we mean here!) and sexism through microaggressions, lack of mentorship opportunities, and assumptions. We dive into these realities and highlight the importance of age diversity in both industries.

We also discuss AI’s double-edged sword—its potential to both automate away jobs and also revolutionize fields like gene editing.

So whether you're well-established in your career or just getting started, our chat has you covered. Did I mention we had a lot of fun? Join us for our wide-ranging but impactful conversation.

"We have structured society so differently than it was historically so that you aren't hitting the same milestones. You aren't necessarily graduating from college at 22, going to business school at 25, getting married at 30, having kids by 35, retiring at 65. Those milestones have all shifted and are no longer fixed points." 

- Jen Saarbach

In This Episode:

-Challenges and opportunities for women in finance

-Ageism in the tech industry

-Women representation and role models in finance and tech

-The challenges of starting a career in the finance industry

-The apprenticeship model in finance and its impact on career paths

-Challenges of entering finance later in life

-The importance of age diversity in finance and tech

-The role of venture capitalists in guiding founders

-The impact of AI on career paths

And much more!

Learn Finance From The Wall Street Skinny:

-Website: https://www.thewallstreetskinny.com/

-Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-wall-street-skinny/id1680425507 

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewallstreetskinny/ 

-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thewallstreetskinny 

Connect with Jen Saarbach:

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifersaarbach/ 

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-saarbach-realtor 

Connect with Kristen...

Which working mom do you know who has it all together? I can't think of anyone. Oh wait…why don’t we ask the same question about dads? Why aren’t they called working dads?  

Being a parent is an incredibly fulfilling experience, but it comes with a heck of a lot of challenges, none of which you can ever be fully prepared to face. But the truth is working moms face different challenges, not just in their homes, but also, especially in the workplace. Gender bias, ageism, imposter syndrome, and psychological safety are just some of the issues we have to combat each day. What gives?

Fortunately, we have someone with me today to provide tips on navigating these complex issues. Sara Dean is a Mindset, Business, and Leadership Coach for Moms. She is the host of The Shameless Mom Academy Podcast. This podcast covers everything from overcoming mom overwhelm to being an advocate and ally in your community. And this episode is not just for moms, but any parent who works outside of the home.

Join us in this candid and energetic conversation. We might be having a good laugh while talking, but believe me, we are taking these mommy and daddy issues very seriously!

"You're breaking down trust when you say it's safe, and then you continually prove that it's not. Or you continually don't rise to the occasion to demonstrate what psychological safety is and the massive investment that it takes over time to actually create safety for every person."

- Sara Dean

In This Episode:

-The genesis of Sara's podcast and what she does today

-Who are the people in Sara's community?

-Does imposter syndrome affect primarily women or any gender?

-What do most people struggle with? 

-Where and how should we carve out the space to own our status as a parent in the workplace? 

-Testing the waters to know if you're walking into a psychologically safe environment

-Does your company support workers who need flexible work hours due to family responsibilities?

-How to overcome Mommy Tax in corporate and tech environments  

And much more

Connect with Sara Dean:

-Website: https://shamelessmom.com/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shamelessmomacademy

-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ShamelessMomAcademy/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saradeanspeaks/

-Podcast: https://shamelessmom.com/the-podcast/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website:

Ever wondered what it's like working on Wall Street? The allure of working in the finance realm endures. But why would a guy leave Wall Street to work in a tech startup or, specifically, a company all about fertility and family planning? 

Today, I have Anthony Franzese, who has embarked on an unlikely and interesting career path. He started his career on Wall Street and later landed in the tech space at Headspace. He now works as a Strategic Partnership Executive at Stork Club, a next-generation maternity and family benefits provider. He also is the creator and host of the Successful Working Parents podcast, having joined the ranks of working parents himself just six weeks ago with the birth of his child. 

Join us as we discuss his unusual career path, what it’s like being a working parent, experiencing ageism as a young employee (yes, ageism is not only experienced by older workers; it goes both ways), overcoming the challenges of the need to succeed early, and experiencing life based on the different stages in life. Learn how Anthony found the courage to leave the bro-centric world of Wall Street and head into mental health tech as a man. This conversation is a refreshing and fun one. 

If you're in that stage where you feel uncertain about your career because everyone else is younger than you, this episode might inspire you that there's hope for older workers to thrive in tech–just look at how Anthony started his tech career at the ripe age of 25 and has still found success. That’s right - Anthony felt behind his colleagues in tech because he came in at 25. That’s tech for you! But, as you’ll learn - Anthony’s take is that age shouldn’t matter, your results should. We’re with you there, Anthony!

"There is value in experience, but I think there's also just value in results, right? And so I think there should be more judgment based on what people are doing and less on how old they are and what they've done."

- Anthony Franzese

In This Episode:

-How Anthony went from working in Wall Street to tech and doing a podcast on parenting

-What’s it like for a guy to work in a fertility and maternity benefits company?

-Anthony shares how he overcame the hurdle of shifting from a male-dominated environment (Wall Street) to a female-centric industry (health & fertility space)

-Reverse Ageism: What’s it like being a young and new employee in a workplace dominated by an older workforce?

-How Anthony viewed older colleagues in tech who didn’t want to use the new tech tools at work - and the risks for older tech employees who don’t embrace the new tech

-Feeling the external pressure to succeed early (and possibly land on the Forbes 30 under 30 list)

-How do you view your life based on your chronological age compared to your current life stage (single, married, parent, caring for an elderly parent, etc.)?

-Does being a parent make you bolder to step into the role of mentor to the men and women in the workplace?

And much more.

Connect with Anthony Franzese:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-franzese-38b11317/

-Linktree - https://linktr.ee/successfulworkingparents

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram:

In our fast-paced, career-driven world, it's all too easy for friendships to take a backseat. But for many men, that dwindling social circle isn't just an occasional inconvenience - it's a harsh reality made worse by societal pressures and masculine stereotypes. 

My guest today is Max Dickins, speaker, comedian, and author of Billy No-Mates: How I Realised Men Have a Friendship Problem.

What’s his story? As Max was preparing to propose to his girlfriend, he had a startling realization - his circle of close male friends had dwindled to nearly nothing. He had no best man! Basically it was the real life version of the Paul Rudd and Jason Segal movie “I Love You, Man!” This experience sparked an exploration into the challenges men face in maintaining platonic bonds, especially as they get older.

From the isolating impacts of demanding work lives to the discomfort many men feel around vulnerability and emotional intimacy, we dive deep into the root causes of male loneliness and its impact on men’s health.  

But it's not all doom and gloom! Max offers practical strategies for breaking the cycle, such as being proactive in your social life, understanding your career's impact on relationships, and the concept of "repotting" friendships to build deeper connections.

Whether you're a guy struggling to keep your mates close or a partner wondering how to support the male relationships in your life, this episode is a must-listen, so tune in now!

"If we ran our social life with the same diligence, creativity, and structure that we ran our business life, everyone would have amazing social lives."

- Max Dickins

In This Episode:

-The story behind Max’s book “Billy No-Mates.”

-Why do men struggle to make and maintain friendships as they age?

-The impact of work on male friendships

-Why do men have more female friends than male friends?

-Tips on how to make new friends easily as a man

-How to build strong male friendships at work

-How women can support their partners in building their social circles

And much more.

Purchase Max Dickins’ Book:

-Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-to-kevin/max-dickins/9781838853518 

-Amazon: https://a.co/d/01zG7Dr

Connect with Max Dickins:

-LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/max-dickins-improv 

-Website: https://www.maxdickins.com/

-Instagram: http://instagram.com/maxdickinswrites

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

Becoming a manager through a promotion or receiving a job offer is a rewarding accomplishment for an employee. While these opportunities can prove exciting for both first-time and long-time managers, not everyone is innately gifted with the skills it takes to be a good manager. Ask just about anyone, and they’ll tell you about that bad boss (or 7) they’ve had across their corporate careers.

In today's episode, the relatable and sharp Ashley Herd of Manager Method and HR Besties and I explore what it means to be a manager and how new managers can adapt to their leadership positions. We discuss common workplace challenges managers face and tips on navigating those challenges.  

We also touch on this interesting concept called ikigai, which is the convergence of four areas of life: what you love, what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for.

Ashley worked as a lawyer in BigLaw (Ogletree Deakins) and leading companies (including McKinsey and Yum! Brands). She also served as General Counsel and Head of HR for the nation’s largest luxury media company (Modern Luxury). 

Ashley is a LinkedIn Learning instructor on people management and co-hosts the HR Besties podcast (a Top 10 Business Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify - and one of my personal favorites). She has been featured by CNN, Financial Times, HR Brew, and BuzzFeed. Ashley is an expert in providing a crucial skill set that will benefit your organization and redefine people leadership.

"I remember my husband's great-aunt, Norma, saying to me, "It's so good to have friendships of different generations." At that time, I didn't appreciate it. I didn't appreciate it until I was older, and I now have those different ones on different sides."

- Ashley Herd

In This Episode:

-Why Ashley created the Manager Method

-Who is this "Luke" that appears in Ashley's videos?

-How to communicate layoffs with humanity

-The legal consequences of passing on layoff decisions to managers

-Is aiming for promotion the only path to staying employed?

-How to manage intergenerational workforce politics

-Encouraging workplace diversity and mentoring across generations

-How the HR Besties podcast came about

And much more.

Resources:

-Radical Candor by Kim Scott - https://kimmalonescott.com/radical-candor

Connect with Ashley Herd:

-Website: https://www.managermethod.com/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/managermethod/

-HR Besties Podcast: https://www.hrbesties.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

The term "Silver Tsunami" has gained prominence in recent years, signifying a considerable demographic change with far-reaching impacts. This phenomenon refers to the rapid increase in the aging population, primarily due to the aging baby boomer generation. But we like “The Super Age” as a description better for obvious reasons.

A quarter of the U.S. labor force will be 55 or older by 2030. This presents new challenges for employers, with many boomers exiting the workforce and taking the knowledge, skills, and experience with them. Employers must embrace age diversity and introduce programs that benefit workers of any age if they want their business to thrive in this new period.

The Silver Tsunami or Super Age is reshaping our societies, economies, and healthcare systems. As the baby boomer generation retires, their demands for healthcare services, retirement options, and social programs are on the rise. This shift poses various challenges and opportunities, influencing multiple aspects of our lives, from healthcare to workforce dynamics.

In this episode, we dive deep into the realities and impacts of The Super Age with our expert guest, Bradley Schurman. We discuss the causes, consequences, and potential solutions to this demographic shift. As employers and society adapt to the evolving job market, understanding The Super Age era is crucial for planning a sustainable future.

Bradley is the Founder and CEO of Human Change, a global strategic research and advisory firm focusing on demographic strategy to help public and private-sector organizations navigate this period and improve organizational resilience through strategic foresight and inclusive design.

Join us as we ride into the waves of this new world!

"Ageism is a bias. It's not parallel to racism or homophobia or sexism, but it is a bias. And when a monolithic group, young men in particular, are building things, they're building their biases into things - including artificial intelligence."

- Bradley Schurman

In This Episode:

-What is the Super Age, and why should we all care about it?

-What will it take to shift how we perceive others?

-How can we encourage companies to focus on inculcating a mentorship program?

-What being smart in the new world of work looks like

-How are tech industries absorbing the Super Age message compared to other industries?

-How businesses can thrive in the new period

-What's on the table economically for the tech industry if they don't make the shift?

-Does tech rely on experience?

-What can we learn from Japan?

-How can people thrive in the workplace even as they grow older?

-What is inclusion design and its impact on society? 

And much more.

Resources:

-The Super Age by Bradley Schurman - https://www.thesuperage.com/book

Connect with Bradley Schurman:

-Website: https://behumanchange.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradleyschurman/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube:

Although stereotypes about older people proliferate in our culture, employers are not supposed to rely on them when making workplace decisions. Several state and federal laws prohibit employers from discriminating against employees based on age, gender, or race. Still, age and other forms of bias are prevalent in tech and other industries. What protection do older workers have? What exactly does the ADEA (Age Discrimination in Employment Act) say about age discrimination?

Today, I have Jennie Woltz and Benjamin Folkinshteyn from Woltz & Folkinshteyn, PC, and they are here to tell you all about the law. They explain the ever-changing labor and employment laws, especially those dealing with older workers in the tech industry. 

Join us as we discuss the legal rights of employees and applicants over 40 (or even younger). If you are wary about being subjected to age bias or have experienced discrimination because of age, gender, or race, you definitely want to know your rights and options.

"The best place to be old in tech is when you start your own company."

- Jennie Woltz

In This Episode:

-What are the protections for people over 40 in any industry in the US?

-What do you need for an age discrimination case to be successful?

-What do statistics show regarding age discrimination vs. race or gender discrimination cases? Why is there a higher burden of proof for age discrimination cases?

-What are the limitations of the ADEA?

-Exclusionary language in advertisements that discourages older applicants

-What does the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission report say about diversity in tech?

-What are the legal rights of employees over 40 worried about being laid off or recently laid off, possibly because of age?

-How would you handle a situation where you got laid off and saw someone markedly younger taking over your previous job? Can that be considered age discrimination?

-Does the law also apply to applicants? What rights do applicants have to protect themselves from age, gender, or race discrimination?

-What can people in tech over 40 do to protect themselves from age bias as they stay employed in their companies?

And much more.

Resources:

-The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 - https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/age-discrimination-employment-act-1967

-EEOC 2014 Diversity in High Tech report - https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech

Connect with Woltz & Folkinshteyn, PC:

-Website: https://wfpclaw.com/

-Jennie Woltz LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennie-woltz-6292471a/

-Benjamin Folkinshteyn LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-folkinshteyn-8b9731103/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube:

Today’s episode features a good friend and tech veteran, John Parisi, who is 63 and currently applying for tech jobs. Although he started working at practically the same age as everyone else, he woke up one day wondering, "When did I become the old man at these companies?"



A decade ago, I was THAT person who made fun of him for being the oldest guy in the workplace. Now, I join his ranks as an "old person" in tech. And that is what we call karma. So, now we wonder, “Is there hope for ‘olds’ seeking a tech career?"

Join us as we discuss what it's like to be interviewing for tech jobs as an “old person” and how it feels to get laid off, possibly in part due to your age (which HR and your boss would definitely not admit to). John candidly talks about the time a couple of months back when he got the dreaded calendar invite from his boss…something too many of us in tech can relate to at this time. He will share his recent experience competing in the job market (where the rest of the workers are not over 40) and how it has felt receiving those "Dear John" letters from companies.

He delivers all of this information with a healthy dose of humor and hope and shares his excitement about how older job seekers can leverage the AI landscape to stay relevant in today’s job market. He also delivers a message that tech companies should hear: older people want to give back to their younger colleagues as mentors. John has done just that for decades and has more value to give for a good long time from here on out!

"The skills I have today, they didn't come over a 12-month period. It took 20 - 30 years to learn all these skills."

- John Parisi

In This Episode:

-How life was before there was the Internet or Google 

-John talks about what's it like being an "old guy" in the workplace 

-Why interviews for older workers in tech are painful

-Getting laid off because of age or monetary considerations

-Competing in the job market when you're over 50

-Signs that a company is age-inclusive

-What millennials (the once sought-after workers) who are now approaching middle age think about what's happening in tech

-The value of mentorship and experience in the workplace

-Confidence and mindset among older employees

-Is there hope for older people seeking tech jobs right now?

-How older people can leverage AI tools to stay relevant in the workplace and the job market

-The steep decline of inbound outreach from recruiters when you hit 40 and above

And much more.

Resources:

-HBR Article - Research: How Bias Against Women Persists in Female-Dominated Workplaces: https://hbr.org/2022/03/research-how-bias-against-women-persists-in-female-dominated-workplaces

-Glass Walls by Amy Diehl and Leanne M. Dzubinski: https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Walls-Shattering-Barriers-Holding/dp/1538170965

Connect with John Parisi:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parisijohn/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Do you want to make a living doing more of what you love? Are you ready to discover the joy of solopreneurship and the freedom it brings? Have you been curious about whether you can take a side hustle into a primetime slot?

Today's episode features Larry Cornett, a Business Advisor and Leadership Coach. He works with frustrated employees who dream of leaving their 9-5 jobs and launching their own businesses someday.

Larry spent over two decades in the Silicon Valley tech industry at top players like Apple and eBay and raised millions of dollars launching new businesses, products, and services as an entrepreneur himself.

Over 12 years ago, he left his tech career to become a solopreneur so he could reclaim his freedom, health, and life - and he wants to help you do the same. 

It's time to design a life you love instead of spending your days dreading coming to work every day. Whether you want to make the most of your career or make a pivot into solopreneurship, there's so much you can learn from my conversation with Larry. Tune in for Larry’s story, as well as practical advice and tips on how you can get the most out of the path ahead.

"Who said that enjoyment in life has to come after retirement? Why are you delaying that?"

- Larry Cornett

In This Episode:

-The rising demand for Botox (aka “Brotox”) as older male workers compete in the job market

-Larry takes us through his career in tech and how he became an entrepreneur

-The difference between an entrepreneur and a solopreneur

-How Larry started his solopreneur journey and what he recommends for people  who want to do the same

- What Larry observed while working in Silicon Valley 

-The benefits of being an older entrepreneur

-Ageism is all around us, but why aren't we openly discussing it?

-How much of what Larry experienced regarding ageism influenced his decision to go out on his own?

-Is it advisable to venture into solopreneurship, given the massive tech layoffs?

-Larry's advice to those who may be thinking about taking the leap but haven't done it

And much more

Resources:

-‘Men don't do Botox, they do Brotox’ – https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/soma.2021.0338

-Leak Shopify memo - https://www.businessinsider.com/leak-shopify-ceo-discourages-employee-side-hustles-see-the-memo-2023-9

Connect with Larry Cornett:

-Website: https://invinciblesolopreneurs.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cornett/

-Podcast: Invincible Solopreneurs - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/invincible-solopreneurs-make-a-living-doing-more/id1654427894

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube:

Have you ever experienced any form of bullying or harassment in the workplace, which makes you wonder why you accepted that job in the first place? How exactly do you deal with workplace issues without sacrificing your future in the company?

Today's episode is a bit different from the norm: Attorney Ryan, aka The Labor Lawyer & Working Class podcast host, and I are joining forces to deliver a joint episode. We borrowed Working Class’s long-form, unfiltered interview style for this one, which was a lot of fun. We took turns discussing workplace issues we have experienced, and Ryan explained what the law says about them. 

Even though we both have some crazy stories from our past employment, I'm pretty sure many of you can relate to the things we go over. You might not feel safe discussing these things with others, but this episode will guide you in advocating for yourself when no one else will. We also get into some raw, funny, and vulnerable discussions about our past as well as the future of our country.

Join me as I speak with Attorney Ryan Stygar, a former firefighter for Cal Fire and San Diego County. He spent several seasons as a desert rescue specialist and wildland firefighter. Firefighter Ryan later left the fire department to earn a law degree and graduated Magna Cum Laude from California Western School of Law. Now well-known across social media as The Labor Lawyer, Ryan is the author of various books across several genres and hosts the Working Class podcast, where he breaks down the most outrageous, engaging, and sometimes hilarious workplace lawsuits. Ryan’s videos deliver insights on workers’ rights issues in plain terms, demystifying what will and won’t fly at work, and inspiring workers to self-advocate or find an attorney to fight on your behalf.

"Nothing you tick off on a resume, no job title is going to give you peace. It's not going to complete you. Yes, money will make you happier, it will give you peace of mind, but it will not fix that hole. And no job title is going to fix that hole if you're not sure who you are."

- Attorney Ryan

In This Episode:

-How old is too old for the tech industry?

-The pressure that comes with being around "smarter" people

-Invisible Labor: Could this be the root cause of burnout in working women?

-Can we cope with the current layoff situation in tech?

-Where venture capitalists should be betting their money 

-What does an age-diverse team look like, and why does it matter?

-What is psychological safety?

-What makes a good leader?

-What brought Attorney Ryan to Employment Law?

-What is institutional inertia?

-Is talking about your pay a terminable offense?

-What does a hostile work environment look like?

-Understanding the concept of allyship 

-How to advocate for yourself in the workplace

-Why it's hard for people to recognize when they have a privilege

And much more

Resources:

-Fair Play Life Documentary: https://www.fairplaylife.com/documentary

-HBR Research: The Average Age of a Successful Startup Founder Is 45: https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-successful-startup-founder-is-45

-Ryan Stygar Books:

Over the last year, top talent has flooded the market after a string of tech layoffs, making things more difficult for everyone from the unemployed to the unhappily employed. Given the headlines, it might come as a surprise to know that some people have been able to find and land not just any job, but fantastic jobs in tech…and today’s guests are here to tell us how we can do it too. Yes, even if you’re over 40 in the tech world.

Julie Chase and Mai Hoang of Dream Job Catcher are with me today. They've helped hundreds of clients, primarily candidates over 40, land their dream jobs. Yes, their clients are still getting amazing offers - right now.

In this episode, we're going to take a look behind the current gloomy layoff headlines, share a bit of hopeful news, discuss hiring trends, and empower you with practical tips to take some control over your career right now. You definitely want to learn from these two who have helped so many like you find success even in today’s job market. So sit tight for some real talk, actionable insights, and laughs, and get ready to be that much closer to landing a job you love.

"It's never too late to have a job that you love and thrive in."

- Julie Chase

"You deserve your dream job. You can have it, and it exists."

- Mai Hoang

In This Episode:

-How Julie and Mai came up with the idea for Dream Job Catcher

-Hiring trends, what candidates are seeing and feeling, and available jobs in today's tech landscape

-The difference between an organic career and an intentional career

-How to help older candidates get into the right mindset and believe in what they can offer to potential employers

-Advice for people who are pivoting from one area of expertise to another 

-Helping people land their dream jobs and some red flags to watch out for 

-What is the value of networking and sharing experiences when searching for your dream job?

-Actionable steps for more experienced people who are applying for jobs in the current job market

-Challenges experienced by older job seekers

-How do mature employees in non-managerial or lower management roles continue to thrive without fear of being "aged out" if they don't climb the corporate ladder?

-Mai and Julie's advice on how to have a long and fulfilling career in tech 

And more!

Resources:

-Dream Job by Julie Chase: https://thedreamjobcatchermethod.com/

-Give and Take by Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/book/give-and-take/

Connect with Julie Chase and Mai Hoang of Dream Job Catcher:

-Mai Hoang LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dreamjobmai/

-Julie Chase LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-chase/

-Website/Coaching: https://dreamjobcatcher.com/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Are you feeling stuck in your career and afraid to make a bold move? John Tarnoff, the career reinvention coach and founder of the Mid-Career Lab, will shake up everything you believe about mid-career shifts, especially if you're rocking that over-40 life!

Get ready to flip the script on job loss and retirement. John shows us that getting fired is not shameful or fatal, as we’ve been made to believe.

John's not just talking the talk – he's walked the walk! He's gone from getting the boot 39% of the time in the rollercoaster world of entertainment to becoming the go-to guru for career reinvention. Talk about a plot twist, right?

And if you think the 60-year career sounds like a snooze fest, you are right! John's challenging that notion. You’ll learn to differentiate yourself in a crowded job market at any age. Spoiler alert: It's all about unleashing your inner superhero (aka your 'superpower'), leveraging relationships, and becoming a thought leader in your zone of genius!

Oh, and did I mention you might want to have your LinkedIn profile open while listening? Trust me, after hearing John's take, that green "Open-To-Work" circle might be the next thing to go!

So, if you are itching for a career change in the ageist tech world or elsewhere, you’ll love this one! We’ve got you covered with all the actionable insights to sustain career growth in a competitive job market, so tune in!

"Find your superpower... That combination of results that you deliver, philosophies of life that you bring to the table, your personality, all of those unique factors. Define that value."

- John Tarnoff

In This Episode:

-Reframing job loss as an opportunity for growth

-How to identify and leverage your superpower

-Applying the 80/20 rule in building your community

-Utilizing platforms like LinkedIn to showcase your value

-The value of a multigenerational workforce 

-Combating ageism in the tech industry

-How to position yourself as a consultant instead of unemployed

-Approaching job interviews as networking opportunities and consultative engagements

-Cultivating a mindset of continuous value delivery and consultation 

-How introverts can overcome networking challenges

-Adopting a design-thinking approach to career development 

And much more!

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

-Answer John’s four ‘Ikigai’ questions: https://johntarnoff.com/

-Bill Burnett and Dave Evans’ book, “Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life:” https://a.co/d/95mGWsm

Connect with John Tarnoff:

-Website: https://midcareerlab.com/ 

-LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/johntarnoff

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

Not sure if your resume and interview skills are up to par to land you your next great role? Bryan’s courses will give you everything you need. Use coupon code "GETSLATEEARLY" for a 10% discount.

Imagine planning to buy a new house in the new city where you’ve moved for your new job, when, all of a sudden, you’re told you’re being let go. You thought you were being called into a regular meeting, and then they dropped the bomb. Losing a job is often a stressful and overwhelming experience, especially for people who are in the middle of building their lives. So, what do you do when you get laid off?

Today's guest has a lot to tell you, and he can help you strategize your next step and reclaim the power in your career. As a corporate recruiter, career coach, hiring manager, and HR professional working directly for companies like Amazon, Visteon (Ford Motors), Korn Ferry, FedEx, and more, Bryan Creely has interviewed and hired thousands of people in his career. He has also sat in countless intake calls and post-interview debriefs with hundreds of hiring managers and interview teams.

After being let go in 2020, Bryan bounced back and promoted himself to CEO of his career. He founded A Life After Layoff, where he teaches proven career strategies to prepare you for any interview, regardless of role, company, or industry.

Join us as we delve into the ultimate insider info on the recruitment process for many companies and the conversations behind closed doors. Bryan also shares some strategies to avoid getting fired, what to do if you get laid off, and, most importantly, how to be the CEO of your career. I think you're going to enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed speaking with Bryan. 

"You can actually create your own luck by being in the right place at the right time with the right skills, the right tools, and the right people and doing it purposefully. And that's not luck. That's called having a strategy in your career."

- Bryan Creely

In This Episode:

-What led Bryan from corporate recruitment to what he's doing today?

-Bryan shares his experience of being laid off and what he did after that 

-How to stop being a victim and reclaim control of your career 

-Ways to potentially look a bit younger to minimize age bias and get a shot at being interviewed 

-Subtle signs of age bias inside recruitment conversations (secrets behind closed doors)

-Is there a reality to the perception that people in their 40s become less desirable job candidates?

-How to avoid landing on the layoff list and what you can do to get back on your feet if you get laid off

-And much more.

Connect with Bryan Creely:

-Website: https://www.alifeafterlayoff.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryan-creely-a6b26713b/

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ALifeAfterLayoff

-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@alifeafterlayoff

-Twitter:...

Ever wondered what it's like to work at Amazon? I mean, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, just like New York, right? It feels like after you’ve done time at Amazon, your meal ticket is punched, and you’ll have a cascade of job offers and great opportunities thereafter. But would you give your soul in exchange for a career at Amazon?

In this episode, I have Kristi Coulter, a brilliant author who wrote the book Exit Interview. She's also a writing professor and an editorial coach, so she helps people get their books into the world.

Exit Interview is about Kristi's experience of 12 years at Amazon corporate. It is an incisive, hilarious book, and as a woman reading it, I felt it was so needed in the literary world. We needed someone to voice what was happening on the inside in corporate employment. 

We get into the sexism and double standards she faced, her tumultuous attempts to advance up the Amazon career ladder, her relationship with ambition, her sobriety journey, and how she has both learned - and proven - that it is never too late to change in life. She also recounts how Amazon - and specifically, Jeff Bezos - responded to the famous New York Times expose of Amazon by Jodi Kantor (who also broke the Harvey Weinstein abuse scandal). You definitely don’t want to miss that story.

And by the way, the brutal culture Kristi experienced at work is not unique to Amazon, but is something people from many in tech can relate to, so I found it cathartic to read.

So, if you’re wondering, "Oh, Amazon, what's it like there?" join us as we peel back the mystique and aura of Amazon. Don’t worry, we’ll get some solid and entertaining Jeff Bezos anecdotes up in there.

"I know there's this myth that people who make that kind of money aren't really working. But I could tell you, at Amazon, those people were working insanely hard. Like so hard that I would think, ‘you know, you're worth tens of millions of dollars, why are you answering emails on Sunday night? … Why don't you go on more vacations?’"

- Kristi Coulter

In This Episode:

-Why Kristi wrote her book 

-Climbing the corporate ladder at Amazon

-What was it like getting a job at Amazon as a 36-year-old woman?

-How do you react to a weird situation in the workplace?

-Living and working in a place where "drinking" is part of the culture

-Kristi's leadership example at a luxury retreat 

-One more humorous interlude 

-The New York Times article and the response from Jeff Bezos

-Does Jeff Bezos actually care about diversity and equity?

And much more.

Resources:

-Exit Interview: The Life and Death of My Ambitious Career by Kristi Coulter - https://www.amazon.com/Exit-Interview-Death-Ambitious-Career/dp/0374600902

-Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace - https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

-Jeff Bezos Responds To 'New York Times' Report On Amazon's Workplace -

Do you work in the tech industry and worry that you're considered old, even though you may not even be 40 yet? Do you feel like younger colleagues are getting all the opportunities and promotions while you are worrying about “aging out” of tech before you can even retire? If so, you're not alone.

Welcome to It Gets Late Early, a podcast about the experience of aging as an employee in the tech world. I'm your host, Maureen Wiley Clough, and I know what it's like to feel "old" for tech. 

Unfortunately, it seems like the tech industry has a youth-obsessed culture that can make it challenging for older employees to thrive. In this first episode, I talk about my experience as an older person in an industry that seems to prefer young talent. But is there really a cause for concern? 

Tune in to find out.

“Older does not mean worse. It's really critically important that we start thinking of people with experience in the workplace in tech as a good thing.” 

- Maureen Wiley Clough

In This Episode:

-How getting older is the one thing we all have in common, which is why we have to do something about age bias

-My personal story working in the tech industry (how a young Gen Z guy nicknamed me “Dino”) and my goal for creating this platform

-Some HUGE companies have gone on the record to share their preference for youth

Resources: 

-IBM Accused Of Ageism: Older Workers Are ‘Dinobabies’ Who Should Be Made An ‘Extinct Species’ - https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/02/12/ibm-accused-of-ageism-older-workers-are-dinobabies-who-should-be-made-an-extinct-species/?sh=60d37753129c

-EEOC Report on Diversity in Tech - https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech

Connect with Maureen Wiley Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/

-Facebook: It Gets Late Early -

It is a popular opinion among some people of the younger generations that baby boomers have gotten all the good stuff and left nothing but a broken system for future generations. But boomers, now in their older years, are facing something new and decidedly less good: ageism. 

Should we feel sorry for them? Should we advocate on their behalf, and on behalf of our future selves? Well, according to my guest today, the answer is a big, fat “nope!”

I’m joined by Chad Sowash, the co-host of “HR's Most Dangerous Podcast” – The Chad & Cheese Podcast. I had no clue how the episode would unfold, letting Chad take the reins…and what happened certainly surprised me.

Chad has worked in the HR, Talent Acquisition, and HR Tech space for over 20 years, consulting for hundreds of Fortune 500 companies like AT&T, Lockheed Martin, and The Ford Motor Company, to name a few.

Join us as we discuss controversial workforce issues. If you want to get insights into the darker, more challenging side of the multigenerational workforce – and also hopefully have a good laugh while pondering your opinion on these issues – today's episode won't disappoint! 

Fair warning, though: if you're uncomfortable with profanity, or offended by the suggestion that the boomers had it coming, this conversation might be too dangerous for you!

"When we start to see the boomers move out, 'cause they're a very large population, there's going to be that huge sucking sound that actually pulls us all UP! If we haven't been there, we're going to get pulled up into those positions, and companies aren't going to have a choice. Where they do have a choice, and they should be investing now, is in their future leadership and being able to get them up to speed so that on Day One, they don't have this huge skills gap."

- Chad Sowash

In This Episode:

-Why Chad says boomers need to get out of the workforce

-It’s five o’clock somewhere vibes

-Why should a listener care whether ageism exists or not?

-How long can an individual actually stay in the workforce?

-Whose responsibility is it to address the skills gap?

-Should we focus on ageism? 

-What happens when age intersects with other marginalized group status

-Why Chad believes we should put our energy elsewhere instead of fighting ageism

-Will the millennials (or any generation) be able to dismantle age stereotypes?

-Millennials vs. Gen Xers - the ultimate standoff 

-What's the real issue here, and how do we solve it?

And much more.

Resources:

-Research: How Bias Against Women Persists in Female-Dominated Workplaces by Amy Diehl, Amber L. Stephenson, and Leanne M. Dzubinski: https://hbr.org/2022/03/research-how-bias-against-women-persists-in-female-dominated-workplaces

Connect with Chad Sowash:

-Website: https://www.chadcheese.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadsowash/

-Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/the-chad-cheese-podcast/id1211760335

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Have you ever felt like you’re checking all the boxes in life to be considered a success, but you’re still left feeling unfulfilled? Do you ever think to yourself, well, as soon as I get this promotion, or as soon as I make some money, I’ll be happier…but then that thing happens, and you’re still feeling empty? Do you ever wonder whether the stress was worth it?

Stress is an ever-present challenge for us all in modern-day life, and rampant in the high-pressure tech world. No matter your industry or level of experience, managing stress levels is critical to achieve success and happiness in and out of work. Today, I have someone who has not only been there as an overworked and unfulfilled tech employee himself but also can help people prevent burnout and increase happiness at any age through his interesting coaching methodology.

Jason Komosa is a burnt-out tech executive turned Executive Coach. He started his career launching a small consumer internet company (Groupon - remember Groupon?!), then later found himself confused and unfulfilled. He had completed the 'Path-To-Happiness' checklist he had created as a teenager, hitting most of the items even before age 30. But rather than finding fulfillment after doing all the “right things,” he felt depressed.

Jason found himself seeking more out of life. Therapy wasn’t hitting the mark for him - he wanted more actionable advice. So he went through executive coaching, became an apprentice for his coach, and earned his Optimized® Mental Coaching Certification in 2019. Since then, he has helped others from organizations like Uber, Techstars, Wells Fargo, and more get out of their own way and step into the highest, most optimized version of themselves. Or, as Jason himself puts it, he helps you “upgrade your mental software.”

Join us for a thoughtful and personal discussion about how and when stress creeps into our lives, transforming the narratives we tell ourselves, mindset tips for overcoming burnout, how age and experience have impacted our lives, and discovering our true purpose in life - no matter how many years along you are in yours.

"When it comes to our minds and our souls, we’re running on Windows 95 on a dial-up modem."

- Jason Komosa

In This Episode:

-What attracted Jason to Groupon specifically and the tech industry generally?

-How does one become burned out at work? 

-Why I almost went to law school

-How early programming in childhood impacts our thoughts about our careers

-Why we view the world the way we do 

-Jason recounts his exodus from Groupon and tech

-Groupon’s college-like culture

-Find out the scariest thing Jason has ever done, and what he got out of it

-What kind of a coach is Jason, and what is it like working with him?

-How reframing how you view your situation helps you overcome it

-How has age affected Jason's coaching practice?

-And much more.

Connect with Jason Komosa:

-Website: https://jkcoach.me/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonkomosa/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube:

In raising the topic of the experience of aging in tech, a big question loomed for me: “What do experienced older workers bring to the table for their employers?” Today's guest has made answering this question his life’s work. 

Daniel Jolles, a one-time tech consultant, is a researcher in behavioral science at the London School of Economics (LSE), studying to get his Ph.D. in Psychology. Daniel’s studies apply behavioral science to age-diversity efforts and age inclusion in the workplace. His work at the LSE with the Inclusion Institute focuses on workplace generations and aging. 

In addition, Daniel supports research at the Age Equity Alliance, which focuses on age equity at work. So he is the perfect guest to discuss the topic at hand. Stick around to hear what the research says about persistent age bias in hiring and Daniel’s take on why companies should ensure they have a wide age range represented in their employee ranks.

“I do know from past data that when older workers are unemployed, they tend to spend longer being unemployed.” 

- Daniel Jolles

In This Episode:

-Learn a little bit about Daniel Jolles, what he does, his research, and his interest in the topic of age diversity and equity at work

-Daniel shares his thoughts on workers enjoying the world while they still can vs. waiting until retirement before doing what they really want to do in life

-Older Workers vs. Younger Workers - Breaking the Stereotypes and societal view on aging

-Does Daniel's research support the hypothesis about the lack of acknowledgment for older people now? 

-Daniel shares the results of a simulated hiring decision where we see older candidates less likely to be selected

-How do we show organizations what they're losing out on by not employing older workers and by not having an intergenerational workforce?

-A key takeaway and an action item for you from today's conversation

And more!

Connect with Daniel Jolles:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danieljolles/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/

-Facebook: It Gets Late Early - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100088694515585

In our hustle-obsessed society, the concept of "work-life balance" has become a twisted, unattainable ideal. From the dawn of our careers, we're fed narratives that glorify overachievement and self-sacrifice for the corporate grind.

But what if we've been sold a lie? What if the real keys to fulfillment lie in dismantling those deeply ingrained notions?

My guest today is Danielle Roberts, the bold anti-career coach. Danielle was well on her way to "having it all" - the prestigious job, the six-figure salary, the big promotion. But at what cost? She found herself drained, unfulfilled, and questioning the very purpose of her relentless grind. 

From debunking the "lazy millennial" myths to questioning if a four-day workweek goes far enough, we explore the systemic issues warping our relationship to work. Danielle shares candid insights on why the perpetual grind robs us of joy and how to start uncoupling your identity from your job title.

Whether you're questioning your own work-life balance, feeling the creep of burnout, or simply craving more purpose beyond the 9-to-5 grind, this conversation is a must-listen. Tune in as we dive into practical strategies for finding joy and fulfillment outside of your career.

“We talk about work-life balance as if work is something to be balanced against life, but we need it (work) to be coherent with life.” 

- Danielle Roberts

In This Episode:

-Danielle’s journey from corporate to anti-career coaching

-Why people are disenchanted with corporate employment

-The tech industry's broken promises, layoffs, and lies

-Navigating career uncertainty and embracing self-worth

-Redefining success and getting comfortable with "failure"

-A holistic approach to career coaching

-Generational differences in the workplace

-Quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs, and a four-day workweek

And much more.

Resources: 

-Buy “Already Enough: A Path to Self-Acceptance” by Lisa Olivera: https://amzn.eu/d/bJIt4PG  

Connect with Danielle Roberts:

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imdanielleroberts/

-Website: https://danielleroberts.co/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/

-Facebook:

Have you ever looked around the proverbial Zoom room at your tech company and found yourself to be among the oldest there, despite not being even close to “old?” Have you worried about “aging out” of tech if you don’t reach a certain title by a certain time?  What is “old,” anyway? Well, it turns out that in the tech sector…it gets late early. Really early. 

If you have had these thoughts, made similar observations, or harbored some fear about aging in the tech world, you’re far from alone. But there is also reason to shift your mindset towards celebration of your “seasoned” status. 

It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on aging in the tech world. We’ll explore individual experiences over the course of tech careers, at various companies of different sizes and maturities along the way. Some companies have excelled at creating a workplace that attracts and retains multiple generations of workers, and others have been…less successful. We’ll discuss how and why Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion efforts have largely ignored age as a factor, and explore the benefits of employing an age-diverse workforce. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll hear stories and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

In the last year alone, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) received nearly 81,000 charges of workplace discrimination. And here's a kicker – age discrimination made up a whopping 17.5% of those cases! This is not merely a fringe issue in our society.

In today’s episode, I sit down with Keith Sonderling, the EEOC commissioner, to explore the realities of workplace discrimination and the EEOC's role in safeguarding civil rights across the United States. Keith shares the EEOC's mission, which goes beyond enforcing anti-discrimination laws to educational initiatives that prevent discrimination and help employers and employees understand their rights and obligations. 

We're covering everything from the EEOC's birth during the Civil Rights Movement (talk about a dramatic origin story!) to the modern-day villains of age discrimination and AI bias in hiring. And trust me, some of these true stories from the workplace are pretty wild - and have resulted in some stiff penalties for the companies who got caught.

So whether you're the one signing the paychecks, the HR guru trying to keep everyone in line, or just someone who wants to know their rights, this episode is for you. Join us for a conversation that's equal parts enlightening and entertaining – because who said learning about our civil rights in the workplace can't be fun?

"If AI discriminates versus a human, the scale-ability of the discrimination is far greater than any one individual human can do. With just a few clicks, AI can eliminate millions of applications that the algorithm might identify as belonging to a protected class, amplifying bias on an unprecedented scale.”

- Keith Sonderling

In This Episode:

-The EEOC's role in preventing and remedying workplace discrimination

-Common misconceptions about the EEOC’s mission and operations

-Scope and statistics of legal cases on discrimination

-The rise of age discrimination cases: what qualifies as ageism

-The impact of AI on hiring practices and potential risks for discrimination

-Best practices for preventing age discrimination

-Practical advice for employees facing discrimination and the steps they can take

And much more!

Connect with Keith Sonderling:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-sonderling 

-Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/ksonderlingeeoc

-Website: https://www.eeoc.gov/keith-e-sonderling-commissioner

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn:

Looking for a job but realizing they seem to be looking for someone…younger?

In this episode, I sit down with “The Burnout Coach,” Lori Prutsman, who worked as a tech recruiter at multiple agencies, and within tech itself at both Amazon and Booking.com. She left tech after experiencing burnout - in part due to her own fears of ageism - and now coaches clients across all industries about how to avoid burnout and live well.

Lori shares what it felt like being an older employee at Amazon, what she witnessed as a recruiter for tech companies, and what candidates approaching their 40s can expect in today's landscape. She also confronts the elephant in the room: Amazon's employee hiring process.

If you're struggling with age bias in your career or job search, this episode is for you. 

“I didn't start Amazon until I was 40, and I was constantly trying to almost... disassociate from my age when I was there.” 

- Lori Prutsman



In This Episode:

-Working as a recruiter at Amazon

-Applying for a role in a tech company when you're in your 40s or older

-Observations in the hiring process for various tech companies

-How Lori started a conversation about age bias at Amazon 

-How Lori transitioned from a brilliant tech recruiter to “The Burnout Coach” 

Connect with Lori Prutsman:

-Website: https://www.loriprutsman.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theburnoutcoach

-Facebook: https://web.facebook.com/SeattleBurnoutCoach/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seattleburnoutcoach/

Connect with Maureen Wiley Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/

-Facebook: It Gets Late Early - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100088694515585

Ever feel like you're trying to navigate a corporate obstacle course while juggling flaming torches and keeping your cool? Like you're supposed to be "authentic" but also "professional," vulnerable but not too vulnerable? Well, today we're diving into the workplace circus with Hanan Harb Sahourieh, the brilliant mind behind Everybody Be Cool - a book that's basically your survival guide to the modern workplace.

Here's what's fascinating about Hanan: after getting laid off (yeah, we've all been there or feared being there), instead of diving into the usual "how to climb the corporate ladder" stuff, she wrote the book she wished she'd had - one for the regular folks trying to figure out how to show up as themselves. And this isn't your typical "lean in" narrative. This is real talk about what happens when five generations of workers try to coexist without driving each other crazy.

We get into some juicy territory, like what Hanan calls "spiritual business moments" (trust me, it's not what you think), and why being vulnerable at work isn't always the magic solution Brené Brown might have led us to believe. Speaking of which, wait until you hear Hanan's take on psychological safety - spoiler alert: your role might have more to do with it than your personality.

So, if you're tired of workplace advice that feels like it was written by AI (no offense to our robot friends), and you're ready for some real talk about power, authenticity, and staying human in the corporate jungle, this episode is for you. Don't worry, we'll throw in some cringe-worthy corporate culture stories too - because sometimes you just need to know you're not alone in this wild ride we call work life.

“We have power and control over how we show up, how we interact with our neighbors, our community, our family, and the people we work with. That's where we have the power to be who we want to be and be the change that we want to see.” 

~ Hanan Harb Sahourieh 

In This Episode:

-Why personal power matters in the workplace

-How to build a personal brand and its benefits

-The inspiration behind Hanan’s book Everybody Be Cool

-How to navigate generational differences in the workplace

-Why power skills are essential in today’s workplace

-Challenges of being vulnerable in the workplace

-How independent publishing empowers creators

-The value of a coaching culture in the workplace

-How to build resilience and adaptability in the rising gig economy

And much more!

Resource Mentioned in the Episode:

-Hanan’s book, Everybody Be Cool: https://a.co/d/h7SzNjE 

Connect with Hanan Harb Sahourieh:

-Website: https://www.everybody-be-cool.com/   

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hananharb

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

You may not consider yourself old at 40, but you begin to think about it when you see most of your co-workers in their 20s or 30s being commended for their youthful “energy,” “enthusiasm,” or “hunger.” Many employees strive for success in mid-life and beyond, but they also regularly struggle with varying degrees of ageism - and it’s especially bad at the workplace. 

If ageism is an issue in your organization, what can you do? How can you challenge stereotypes about aging and show that people of all ages are capable of making significant contributions to work and society in general? Whatever you might encounter, there is no reason to tolerate discrimination as you age. 

Today, I have Sandy Matus with me from Textio, a software company that helps organizations hire and retain diverse talent by removing bias from job descriptions and performance reviews. Sandy is the VP of People and has joined us to share Textio’s data on age in the workplace, talk about how age bias impacts your career, describe what she’s seen across the organizations where she’s worked, and tell you how to fight back. Sandy leads the team responsible for Textio’s world-class employee experience, driving talent strategy, people operations, performance management, Total Rewards, and learning and development programs.

With over 20 years of experience in Human Resources, Sandy is passionate about delivering a truly exceptional and inclusive employee experience. For the last decade, Sandy has focused on supporting tech startups in building the culture and infrastructure needed to scale.

Join us for an engaging and informative conversation. Whether you are an older employee, a younger employee thinking of your future self, a hiring manager, or a business leader, there are so many things you can learn from today's episode with Sandy. Here’s to a better future of work! 

"If an organization wants to be a good employer and wants to do well, they're going to be evaluating individuals for the contributions you make, not simply how energetic you look or what appearances you have."

- Sandy Matus

In This Episode:

-Who is Sandy Matus, and what does she do?

-What does Textio’s data say about age bias in the workplace?

-How do we get people to understand how damaging age bias and discrimination are when hiring people?

-How Textio can help companies identify biases in the workplace

-Why are we so far behind on age inclusion within diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) programs?

-What can organizations do to address age bias in the workplace?

-What does the latest research on Language Bias in Performance Feedback say, and where can people find a copy of the report?

-How Textio helps uplift individuals of all ages with the work that they do

-What can you do to thrive in the workplace, regardless of age?

And much more.

Resources:

-Language Bias in Performance Feedback - 2023 Data Analysis and Survey Results: https://textio.com/resources

-Leveraging the Value of an Age-Diverse Workforce: https://www.shrm.org/foundation/ourwork/initiatives/the-aging-workforce/Documents/Age-Diverse%20Workforce%20Executive%20Briefing.pdf

Connect with Sandy Matus:

-Website: https://textio.com/

-LinkedIn:

Today I've got Jamie Jackson, the brilliant mind behind 'Humorous Resources', 'Millennial Misery,' and 'Horrendous HR,' and the co-host of the HR Besties podcast. She's not just your average HR pro - she's like the standup comedian of the corporate world, using humor to keep us all from losing our minds in the 9-to-5 grind.

Jamie's hilarious social media accounts were born out of the pandemic chaos while working at a healthcare clinic. Talk about a pressure cooker situation! But instead of cracking, she turned to humor. It's like she found the secret sauce to surviving corporate America, and now she's sharing it with all of us poor souls who've felt the sting of a pink slip delivered with all the warmth of a robocall.

So, let’s talk about it! You know that feeling when you're called into a surprise meeting, and your stomach drops to your shoes? Well, Jamie has been on both sides of the table, even standing up to a company owner over a harassment claim. Spoiler alert: it cost her the job. But hey, who needs job security when you've got integrity, right?

Additionally, Jamie's got some juicy stories about being an "elder millennial" (is that even a thing?) and the double standards between older men and women. We also get into the wild world of content creation and how it's not all sunshine and rainbows for the ladies out there. Turns out, the glass ceiling isn't just in the office - it's all over social media too!

Join us for some solid anecdotes about aging, advocating for what's right, and staying true to yourself in a corporate world that sometimes feels like it's gone mad. 

"Layoffs, a lot of times, it’s really just a giant math equation. They may not even be looking at names; they’re looking at salaries. It’s not personal. You were just a part of the equation.” 

- Jamie Jackson

In This Episode:

-The inspiration behind Jamie’s humorous HR accounts

-Misconceptions about the HR role

-Why humanity and empathy are critical in corporate leadership

-The challenges HR faces when handling layoffs,

-The cost of standing up for employee’s rights in HR

-How organizations can navigate layoffs with empathy

-The rise of layoffs in tech and the loss of humanity

-Ageism in the workplace and its impact on career advancement

-Gender disparities in corporate settings

-Age perceptions and prejudices on social media

And much more!

Connect with Jamie Jackson:

-Humorous Resources: https://www.instagram.com/humorous_resources/?hl=en 

-Millennial Misery: https://www.instagram.com/millennial_misery/

-HR Besties Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hr-besties/id1712137225

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website:

Today’s episode features millennial comedian and tech sales icon Ross Pomerantz, also known as Corporate Bro, or, increasingly, Corp.

After selling SaaS solutions in Silicon Valley, Ross exited the full-time tech sales employee route in favor of focusing on, well, a lot of other stuff: comedy, filmmaking, advising, investing, speaking, acronyms, writing, and more… but, mostly, influencing (sorry Ross, had to). 

He also recently launched an impressive project, an eight-part comedy web series called Sales Are Dope (S.A.D.), all about working in sales at a Silicon Valley tech company, with plans for a second season. Ross, aka Corporate Bro, has garnered a massive social media following of about a million and growing across platforms like Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, and, yes, even TikTok. And Threads, too, I guess.

Ross has done enough jokes about getting old in tech both over the years in social reels and in his recent comedy series that I realized we needed to get his/Corporate Bro’s take on what it’s like in tech for anyone anywhere near 40 or older. He’ll take you through his own tech career journey and share more about how that professional experience has informed his comedy. Also, we discuss how Ross himself will also one day turn 40…or will he? We’ll get into some of his options.

If you aren’t into profanity (or are listening around kids), or are easily offended, fair warning: this episode is NOT for you, and we’ll catch you next time. 

It was a blast to sit down with Ross to bring some humor into the mix on a topic that can obviously be heavy and serious, and I hope you love listening as much as I loved recording.

"I do think leadership and experience are often underappreciated. It can be a huge difference-maker in tech in motivating people and giving them perspective and wise words, whatever it may be, but also even catharsis and therapy to the younger folks."

- Ross Pomerantz

In This Episode:

-Why Corp thinks tech companies are youth-dominated

-Where will Corporate Bro be in ten years? Hint: maybe drop the “Bro”

-How Ross’s humor plays differently with Gen Z vs. older people

-Ross’s feelings about facing ageism - his first “ism”  

-How Ross works well with both younger and older people alike 

-A new “ism” facing Corporate Bro and some of his fellow tech sales colleagues 

-Allusions to the Big Island of Hawaii, a place we both love

-What athletes and tech sales professionals share as they age

-Targeted advertisements for those over 40 and where they can go wrong

-His casting limitations for comedy skits and his hopes for more diverse representation in season two of Sales Are Dope (S.A.D.)

-Ross’s true feelings on influencers and TikTok

-Some colorful, out-there facts about some of Ross’s fellow San Francisco residents

-What Taylor Swift and Corp have in common

-How bicyclists feel about Corp

-How he handles people who recognize him as Corporate Bro in the street/at the bar

-What it feels like for him to get older

-What tech companies are sleeping on regarding the value of older employees 

And much more.

Make sure to follow Ross on socials, and above all, go watch Sales Are Dope! All the links are below.

Resources:

-Sales Are Dope (S.A.D.) Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3NoHBNSs00Y7I82f6h_6KyWM3b9pjmmQ

-Gavin DeGraw clip mentioned:

As more people live longer, consumer brands need to consider the needs of the older population. Companies that neglect senior consumers, especially the Baby Boomers, can end up missing a massive opportunity to attract and retain a growing market and make a ton of money along the way.

Older generations, those 50 and older, make up 51% of consumer spending. Despite the prevalence of youth in advertisements, older people spend way, way more money than younger generations (because they have more disposable income). Like young people, older folks also want to learn about brands to stay informed on new and significant trends. So, smart brands will soon wake up to the fact it is time to tap into the growing senior market and leverage the power of older consumers. The longevity economy, the largest and fastest-growing market in the world, is an opportunity marketers can't afford to ignore. 

My guest today is Brian Clark, a digital marketing and tech entrepreneur, proud Gen X’er, and author of Longevity Gains, a Substack newsletter about the longevity economy. Join us as we discuss the massive demographic shift that's about to happen, why people should actually be excited about getting older, and the need for intergenerational harmony. We have a lot of fun along the way, too. 

"You hit 50, and I'm telling you, I'm living proof you get happier. And the happiest decade of life is your 70s."

- Brian Clark

In This Episode:

-What is the longevity economy?

-Why are we now becoming more aware of ageism?

-Are marketers deliberately ignoring older consumers? Why or why not?

-Which companies are attracting and retaining older consumers?

-The need for intergenerational harmony

-Why many people are not excited about growing older

-Where can companies get insights on marketing to older consumers?

-Hope for the older generation and those who are getting there

And much more.

Resources:

-Further: Midlife Health, Wealth, and Personal Growth Newsletter: https://further.net/

-The Longevity Economy by Dr. Joseph Coughlin: https://longevityeconomy.com/

Connect with Brian Clark:

-Website: https://www.longevitygains.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thatbrianclark/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -

The world population is aging, and with 10,000 people turning 65 daily, new opportunities are emerging in the tech industry. So, today, we're exploring the AgeTech revolution with Cathy Minter, the CEO and co-founder of Wisdom.io. 

AgeTech? Yeah, it's a thing, and it's been quietly changing the game since 2016. But we're not talking about teaching your grandparents to code (although they definitely could…because we never stop learning new things, remember?). We're talking about everything from "I need to plan my will" apps to smart homes that won't let you forget your meds.

Now, Cathy's not just some tech guru who decided to cash in on the “silver tsunami,” aka demographic change. Nope, she's got skin in the game. Her journey into AgeTech is like a roller coaster ride through personal loss, family drama, and a "wait, why isn't there an app for that?" moment during the pandemic. You'll want to hear how being the baby of the family turned her towards tech founderdom.

Cathy's not just about keeping old folks "aging in place" (a term that has got to go, btw). She's all about living well independently as long as possible. And boy, does she have stories to tell about navigating the gender bias and ageism in the tech world. From trying to look older in her 30s (because apparently, corporate tech leadership and youth don't mix) to dealing with the subtle "oh, honey" vibes in her 50s, Cathy's seen it all.

So, if you're curious about how AgeTech is gearing up to make our golden years truly golden, or if you just want to hear some juicy tales from Silicon Valley, this episode's got you covered.

“I asked one of the older adults in our focus group about aging in place, and she said it’s just about living life to the fullest for the time that you have.” 

- Cathy Minter

In This Episode:

- Introduction to AgeTech and its ability to improve lives

-Cathy’s journey to founding Wisdom.io

-The sandwich generation and the future of age tech

-Navigating career growth and gender bias in the workplace

-Barriers to AgeTech adoption for older adults

-Redefining “aging in place”

-Ageism in the tech industry

-Innovation gaps in the tech sector for older adults

-The value of mentorship and intergenerational collaboration

And much more!

Connect with Cathy Minter:

-Website: https://www.mywisdom.io/ 

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyminter

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -

Note: Due to tech issues with my headphones and microphone, my audio on this show isn’t of the typical quality for It Gets Late Early. But Dan sounds great!

If you love comedy and work in tech, you must have watched HBO's Silicon Valley. If you haven't…fix that immediately, but it's a show about the struggles of Richard Hendricks, a Silicon Valley founder and engineer trying to build his own company, Pied Piper. The comedic genius of that show is straight-up legendary!

Today, I have Dan Lyons, a writer on HBO's Silicon Valley and author of the NYT bestseller "Disrupted: My Misadventure in the Start-Up Bubble," which the LA Times called "the best book about Silicon Valley today." He followed up this book with two more - “Lab Rats: How Silicon Valley Made Work Miserable for the Rest of Us,” and his most recent book, “STFU: The Power of Keeping Your Mouth Shut in an Endlessly Noisy World.” Dan also was the creator of the anonymously penned blog "The Secret Diary of Steve Jobs."

Dan regales us with a story about his first day working at a promising tech startup at the age of 52. He also walks us back to a time when his then-CEO was quoted in the New York Times saying, effectively, we don’t appreciate old employees. You’ll hear how Dan responded…and what he wishes he had done now with the benefit of hindsight.

But after all his (mis)adventures in a tech company that only wanted to hire young workers, Dan now works at a job he loves at DocuSign. In fact, Dan loves working at DocuSign so much, you might even call it his Twin Flame employer. What?! Tune in to find out what we mean.

Join us as we discuss his time working in a startup as the token-old guy, his experience as a writer on HBO's Silicon Valley, the concept of Twin Flames, horoscopes, and even my childhood crushes. And we will leave you with hope that you can find a job you love - at any age.

This is a kind of sillier, more entertaining episode - I hope you enjoy hearing some unfiltered banter between Dan and me. 

"So, having come from the journalism world, you're a little freer in that world to be kind of irreverent about your own institution or your boss. You can be a little obnoxious and get away with it."

- Dan Lyons

In This Episode:

-How does one transition from losing a journalism job to entering a tech startup?

-What is it like walking through the door on the first day as an older employee in a tech company?

-Dan recollects his days working for a company whose CEO told the New York Times that "gray hair and experience are really overrated"

-What was it like working at Newsweek?

-Experiencing the reality of midlife collision

-The call to work at HBO's Silicon Valley and Dan's big break as a writer

-How Dan wrote his bestselling book "Disrupted" and the events that led him to write two more books

-The Bozo Explosion explained

-It all comes down to the culture

-Horoscopes, Love Language, and Twin Flames

-How to find your twin flame employer

-Maureen's childhood crush(es) revealed

And much more.

Resources:

-Disrupted: My Misadventure in the Start-Up Bubble by Dan Lyons: https://danlyons.io/books

-STFU: The Power of Keeping Your Mouth Shut in an Endlessly Noisy World by Dan Lyons: https://danlyons.io/books

-Lab Rats: How Silicon Valley Made Work Miserable for the Rest of Us by Dan Lyons:

Today we have a special guest, Devin Moonbeam (a pseudonym, her choice!). She is an accomplished VP of Marketing in her 50s who has had a long career in the tech industry. Devin will share why getting older in tech is tough, especially for women. She points out the root causes of this issue and candidly shares what she has seen and experienced. But despite these challenges, she has had a killer career due to her talents, confidence, and mindset.

Devin will call out ways older applicants hurt themselves in the job search process and suggest tips to help older employees avoid pitfalls during job interviews and reduce bias. She’ll also reveal the one term that we need to retire from our vocabulary if we want to be taken seriously. She lays bare the risks and downsides employers face when they don't hire or value experienced workers. 

And don’t worry - there is good news too. Devin predicts that things will get a whole lot better for women and other diverse groups in tech over time. Finally, stay tuned to find out about our bold startup idea that will change the game for older tech employees forever. 

Worried about this crazy tech layoff boom? Need a mindset shift? Want a laugh? Tune in to hear Devin's candid take and walk away with some practical advice.

“Even in the most craptastic company, there is a lesson to be learned and to take away.” 

- Devin Moonbeam

In This Episode:

-Why you might want to “botox your resume”

-Examples of age and gender bias in tech recruitment and promotions, especially when the hiring manager is a male

-Tips to avoid pitfalls in the hiring process

-The future of age diversity in Tech: what older employees can expect

-Good news for more senior employees who are looking for companies where their experience will be valued

And more!

Connect with Maureen Wiley Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/

-Facebook: It Gets Late Early - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100088694515585

Imagine hitting all your KPIs at work, only to be told you're out—because they want someone younger. Well, that’s exactly what happened to today’s guest, the incredible Emilia D’Anzica. And trust me, her comeback story is one for the books!

Emilia is the founder of Growth Molecules, an author, and an all-around powerhouse. She takes us through her nuts experience of being pushed out of a tech company despite knocking it out of the park for 13 quarters straight. 

Emilia shares how she handled the blow (hint: with grace and a lot of courage), why fighting ageism in court is nearly impossible, and the advice she received from top lawyers. But this isn’t a downer episode! Emilia didn’t just take the hit – she flipped the script and used her MBA to launch her own successful consulting firm. 

We also talk about the rampant ageism in tech, the gender and racial pay gap, and how recruiters are still weirdly biased about hiring older talent (hello, 57 is not “too old” to hire!) If you’re over 40 and feeling it in your job search or career, Emilia’s story will inspire you to keep pushing forward. She’s living proof that there’s life – and success – after even the most unfair corporate rejection. 

So, don’t miss this conversation packed with insights and a story that will leave you both inspired and enraged.

“If you're a recruiter, you should have the courage to look past how that person looks. We shouldn't have to pay an 'age tax' to get a job.” 

- Emilia D’Anzica

In This Episode:

-Emilia’s shocking story of being replaced by a younger colleague despite consistent success

-Why age discrimination is so hard to prove in court (and the advice Emilia got)

-How Emilia turned a tough experience into a thriving business

-Recruiter bias against older workers and why we need to fix it

-McKinsey research insights on gender pay gaps 

-A peek into Emilia’s book Pressing On as a Tech Mom 

And much more!

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

-Emilia D’Anzica’s book, Pressing On as a Tech Mom: https://www.amazon.com/Pressing-Tech-Mom-Industry-Boundaries/dp/1956955194 

-Women in the Workplace 2024: The 10th-anniversary report: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/women-in-the-workplace 

Connect with Emilia D’Anzica:

-Website: https://growthmolecules.com/   

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emiliadanzica 

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emiliadanzica/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

Are you yearning for a more fulfilling midlife? Turning 40, 50, or 60 is a big deal, and a bit scary for many people. However, we can shift our mindset to view it as something hopeful: the beginning of our second adulthood. 

Instead of thinking of it as a period of decline, we can embrace this period and even begin to feel happier with each passing year. We can start redefining who we are beyond our bodies or personalities. Think of it as a transition period and a space for new beginnings.

Easier said than done? Well, I have someone with me today to show us what’s in store for people crossing the midlife mark. After listening to this episode, I'm certain that you will be more excited about what’s next in life. 

Join me in this meaningful conversation with MEA co-founder and poetic Chief Education Officer Jeff Hamaoui. He is a gentle and empathic facilitator, a business innovation veteran, and a community builder who has taught sustainability courses at Wharton, Berkeley, and Stanford.

MEA Wisdom (formerly known as Modern Elder Academy) is the world’s first midlife wisdom school. This special school helps you embrace change and thrive in times of transition, equips you with the tools to ignite your life with purpose, and unearth your wisdom, and unlock your hidden potential, all while embracing your second adulthood.

Jeff has opened my eyes to new possibilities, and I'm excited to head off sometime soon to Baja to join their in-person workshops and enjoy every moment on a sun-drenched stretch of the Pacific, far away from the usual day-to-day worries!

"Transitions is how we handle change. That's it. And the way we handle change in our lives determines whether we grow or shrink."

- Jeff Hamaoui

In This Episode:

-What is the Modern Elder Academy (MEA Wisdom)?

-What is a transition?

-The three key factors of healthy aging

-What is the experience like at MEA Wisdom?

-How Jeff met Chip Conley and discovered an idyllic home

-What is regeneration, and how does it apply to human beings?

-Finding your wisdom and purpose as you age

And much more.

Resources:

-Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wiser-than-me-with-julia-louis-dreyfus/id1678559416

-Life is in the Transitions by Bruce Feiler: https://www.brucefeiler.com/books-articles/life-is-in-the-transitions/

-Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones: https://media.netflix.com/en/only-on-netflix/81214929

-Regeneration by Paul Hawken: https://regeneration.org/the-book

Connect with Jeff Hamaoui:

-Website: https://www.meawisdom.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-hamaoui-a3318

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Did you know that menopause affects over half the population and costs companies billions in lost productivity each year? And yet, it's still one of the most overlooked issues in the workplace. Well, today’s episode focuses on the impact of menopause on the workforce.

I share my experience with a tech company's absurd mishandling of women’s health, where a session titled "Navigating the Uniqueness of the Female Body" (and no, I'm not kidding!) was beyond offensive. I’ll share some shocking statistics on menopause and its symptoms, which can last up to - get this - 20 years!

Additionally, my guest, Tamsen Fadal, a former journalist turned menopause advocate, recounts a personal story about collapsing in the newsroom due to her symptoms, which led her to focus on raising awareness about menopause. Tamsen is about to launch a documentary called The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, and continually advocates for better workplace education and support for women experiencing menopause.

Tamsen stresses the need for companies to address menopause and highlights organizations that are making progress in this area. She emphasizes that better education and treatment can improve both employee well-being and workplace productivity.

Whether you're experiencing menopause, know someone who is, or just want to create a more supportive work environment, this conversation is for you. Tune in to learn how you can be part of the change.

“As long as we know what to expect, and you’re not surprised or sideswiped by something, it just makes it a little bit easier—even if the symptoms are not.” 

-Tamsen Fadal

In This Episode:

-The definition of perimenopause, menopause, and its symptoms

-The impact of menopause symptoms on women and workplaces

-Menopause-related productivity losses and healthcare costs

-How companies benefit from addressing menopause

-Education and support for women experiencing menopause

-Why raising menopause awareness is crucial 

-How women should handle aging in the workplace

And much more!

Resource Used in the Episode:

-Economic Impact of Menopause: Individual and Collective Costs: https://www.aarp.org/pri/topics/work-finances-retirement/employers-workforce/menopause-workplace/ 

Connect with Tamsen Fadal:

-Website: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamsenfadal/ 

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website:

“Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly.” - Mae West



Do you feel like you're constantly running on the treadmill of life? Not sure how to pause and stop feeling like you always have to be doing something? Anyone else just tired…all the time?

In this ultra-modern world, we are encouraged to be busy, juggle tasks, and be as productive as humanly possible. It's not always easy to slow down when everyone around you is going fast, but it turns out that slowing down is exactly what we need to live longer, richer, and more productive lives. It's high time to embrace the slow revolution.

The Slow Movement, often referred to as the "slow living" movement, is a cultural and social phenomenon that emerged in response to the fast-paced, consumer-driven, and technology-saturated aspects of modern life. It encourages a more mindful and deliberate approach to various aspects of life, including food, work, and leisure.

Today's guest is Carl Honoré, a global keynote speaker (TED twice), age disruptor, the “Voice of the Slow Movement,” bestselling author (36 languages), and an expert on multigenerational working. He’s got some goodness to share with you that can help you leave your hectic and stressful life in the rearview mirror…or at least get you closer!

Join us as we delve into The Power of Slow. Tune in and get your slow fix!

"Slowness is a superpower in a fast world."

- Carl Honoré

In This Episode:

-What is the Slow Movement?

-How did we get hooked on living a fast-paced life?

-Taking on the cult of youth

-Has the fear of death contaminated our view of aging?

-The need to have a social network with a rich mix of different ages

-Tips on slowing down when life feels out of control

-Teaching people how you want to be treated 

-The impact of introducing the idea of slowness in companies

-How do you make a hard-charging boss embrace slowness?

And much more

Resources:

-Books by Carl Honoré: https://www.carlhonore.com/books/

-Forbes Magazine October-November 2023 Zuck Grows Up - https://www.magzter.com/US/Forbes/Forbes-US/Business/

Connect with Carl Honoré:

-Website: https://www.carlhonore.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-honor%C3%A9-81806ab3/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website:

When applying for a job, the hiring process can feel like a waiting game. But what's even worse than waiting for who knows how long or being ghosted altogether is blatantly experiencing age bias while in an interview with a recruitment officer. That's what today’s guest, Vern Six, experienced, which he shared in a LinkedIn post that resonated with many people. In fact, the post went beyond viral, getting millions of views and garnering national media attention.

What happened? Vern had a recruiter inform him that he's supposedly too old for a software developer role. He couldn’t believe that "a young whippersnapper" in his twenties had the nerve to condense his 37 years of experience into such a dismissive statement. 

Vern is an experienced Full-Stack Software Engineer and Project Manager with a demonstrated track record of leading technology projects to successful completion in diverse sectors. But he's over 50, and it turns out, that's a big issue for many recruiters.

Vern is here today to share the story behind his viral post, and the whirlwind that has happened since then. I'm sure many of you can relate to his encounter with a much younger interviewer and how their conversation ended.

Join us as we discuss the issue of ageism in tech and what we can do to spread awareness about the value that older workers bring to the workplace. 

"People just think that once you're kind of pigeonholed in a particular stack, that's the way you are, and you're not going to move away from it. It's just not true."

- Vern Six

In This Episode:

-The background behind the viral post and what's happened since then

-Vern's experience being an "old guy" in tech

-A deluge of love and hate for Vern's post

-Why is ageism prevalent in the tech industry?

-The value of older workers and their vast experience

-A difference in perception of age bias between technical roles and sales roles

-Vern shares his career path and current business venture

-When did Vern start feeling the fear of ageism? 

-The extent to which Vern discusses ageism beyond his viral post

And much more.

Resources:

-Vern's Viral Post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7167946832742928385/

-LinkedIn Group – Inclusive Futures: Combating Ageism & Discrimination https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14418151/

Connect with Vern Six:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vernsix/

-Website: https://purposebrewcoffee.com/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

Ever wonder what it takes to build and sell a tech company for millions without venture capital? Well, we've got the inside story straight from the source!

Today I'm chatting with Sharon Gillenwater, a trailblazing entrepreneur who did just that - she built and sold her tech company (Boardroom Insiders) for a cool $25 million, all without relying on VC funding! She is the author of Scaling with Soul, which chronicles how she built, scaled, and sold her company.

Sharon's not your typical tech founder - in fact, she didn't even have a technical background when she started her company. But she proved that you don't need to be a coder to succeed in the startup world. 

Sharon shares her unconventional entrepreneurial journey, the challenges she faced as a woman in tech, and the surprising advantage of being an "older" entrepreneur.

We'll also get the scoop on Sharon's viral TikTok fame, the truth about VC funding (hint: you don't always need it!), and her mission to democratize entrepreneurship and create more respectful workplaces.

Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or just curious about the wild world of tech startups, you don't want to miss this episode. Sharon's story is proof that you can absolutely make it big in this industry, even if you don't fit the mold, so tune in!

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"You don't have to be a Mark Zuckerberg to be an entrepreneur. Or a Sarah Blakely. You can be a Sharon Gillenwater and make all your retirement money and have a great retirement. And you don't have to take venture capital." 

- Sharon Gillenwater

In This Episode:

-How Sharon built and sold a $25m tech company without venture capital

-How to overcome self-doubt and insecurity as an entrepreneur

-Women’s experience in entrepreneurship in the 80s

-The downside of venture capital funding for founders

-How to identify business opportunities

-Employee care strategies and the importance of a positive work culture

-Employment challenges in the tech industry

-Sharon's TikTok fame and content creation journey

-Navigating business exits after venture capital funding

And much more!

Resources:

-Scaling With Soul: How I Built & Sold a $25 Million Tech Company Without Being an A**hole - https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Soul-Million-Company-Without/dp/1964377013 

Connect with Sharon Gillenwater:

-Website: https://www.sharonkgillenwater.com/ 

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sharonkgillenwater/

-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sharonkgillenwater 

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonkgillenwater/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

As we continue to explore what it’s like to get older in tech, we’ll get stories and insights from people who have seen and experienced it firsthand while working at a range of companies in many different cities and regions. Today’s show features a conversation with my friend, Matt Curtis. He is essentially a Silicon Valley native who started his career in tech 25 years ago. Matt is now 46 years old, and he reports widespread anxiety for older peers looking to interview in tech companies right now, especially in the Bay Area. 

In this episode, Matt takes us back to the glory days of the dot-com bubble and contrasts that period with the current tech landscape facing widespread layoffs. We discuss the difficult path of individual contributors who don't want that promotion in terms of their ability to stay in their careers. We also give some of our hypotheses to answer this question: “Why do tech employers disproportionately hire younger people?” In addition, we examine a trend in venture capital - the funding of a specific type of founder (the Sam Bankman-Fried, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg types).

If you're an experienced tech professional concerned about what the future holds for you, this episode will resonate.

“The hardest working people I know are those that have been there, been around.” 

- Matt Curtis

In This Episode:

-What Matt thinks about age diversity and inclusion in tech 

-Why is the issue of ageism in tech worse today than in the early days of tech?

-Are the more senior people in tech striving for higher positions as a means of self-preservation? How many worry about being seen as less desirable when they stay in the same role for some time?

-How can older people in the tech industry showcase their expertise?

-How can older people buffer against the reality that younger generations are inherently skilled in technology?

-How the pandemic impacted people in different ways

And more!

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/

-Facebook: It Gets Late Early - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100088694515585

We're bringing back some comic relief of the highest order by republishing one of the all-time most downloaded episodes of It Gets Late Early, featuring genius comedian Ross Pomerantz, aka Corporate Bro (or just Corp).

If you’re newer here, you probably haven’t heard Ross’s take on getting older in general or in the ageist tech industry…and trust me, you’re gonna wanna fix that. Like, now.

If you don’t know Ross, his persona of Corporate Bro is pretty much legendary in the tech world. After spending a few years in the tech sales trenches, he has been putting out comedic videos satirizing the world of sales and tech and has amassed a massive social media following. He currently partners with brands as huge as Salesforce and DocuSign, delivers keynotes, and advises tech companies.

Since we recorded this episode, Ross has also become a podcaster. He puts out the absolutely hilarious show “Demoted” alongside co-host comedian Corporate Natalie. Definitely check it out - it’s one of my favorites.

If you aren’t into profanity (or are listening around kids), don’t enjoy sarcasm or dark humor, or are easily offended, fair warning: this episode is NOT for you, and we’ll catch you next time.

So, thanks for letting me hit the easy button for a little summer break while also delivering to you an absolute gem of an episode - either for the first time or for another round.

"I do think leadership and experience are often underappreciated. It can be a huge difference-maker in tech in motivating people and giving them perspective and wise words, whatever it may be, but also even catharsis and therapy to the younger folks."

- Ross Pomerantz

In This Episode:

-Why Ross thinks tech companies are youth-dominated

-Where will Corporate Bro be in ten years? Hint: maybe drop the “Bro”

-How Ross’s humor plays differently with Gen Z vs. older people

-Ross’s feelings about facing ageism - and his first “ism”  

-How Ross works well with both younger and older people alike

-Ross’s experience in producing "Sales are Dope" (S.A.D.)

-Ross’s true feelings on influencers and TikTok

-What Taylor Swift and Ross have in common

-How Ross feels about getting older

-Where Ross thinks older employees bring value

-The grind of content creation

And much more!

Resources:

-Sales are Dope (S.A.D.) Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3NoHBNSs00Y7I82f6h_6KyWM3b9pjmmQ

-Gavin DeGraw clip mentioned: https://www.tiktok.com/@corporate.bro/video/7196785042696457518

Connect with Ross Pomerantz:

-Website: https://corporatebro.com/

-Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/demoted/id1725899994 

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corporatebro/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/corporate.bro/

-TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@corporate.bro

-Threads -

Many companies are aware of the importance of promoting DEIB in the workplace. It's where you implement measures to ensure your employees feel respected and are treated fairly in an inclusive environment where they can feel comfortable as themselves - and in so doing, create optimal business outcomes.

However, many companies fail miserably when it comes to implementing their so-called DEIB programs. Why is that so? Let's get insights from someone who understands exactly what it takes to finesse your DEIB recipe to get the best possible outcome. 

Today's episode features Amelia Ransom, Smartsheet's VP of DEI. Smartsheet recently achieved 100% on the Human Rights Campaign’s Corporate Equality Index, a survey that evaluates corporate policies and practices pertaining to LGBTQ+ workplace equality - but as you’ll hear, Amelia doesn’t think that means their work is done.

Join us as we discuss this topic of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in the workplace. You’ll learn the three-part framework Amelia thinks is optimal for sustained success, how we can reframe our thoughts about generational differences at work, and why Amelia has mixed feelings when it comes to the overall outlook for DEIB in the corporate realm. 

"Here's the challenge with DEI if we're being honest: DEI tends to experience a renaissance at the expense of life. So we tend to pay more attention to DEI when a tragedy occurs, when a war happens, when the police are violating the rights of black people, like, name it."

- Amelia Ransom

In This Episode:

-How Amelia got into DEI

-What are the current trends in DEI, and what exactly does DEI stand for?

-What does it take to build a genuinely inclusive culture?

-Why do most DEI initiatives neglect to include age?

-Smartsheet receives accolades for hitting the mark on DEIB 

-Amelia shares a fantastic analogy about how people can implement DEIB the right way

-What hope is there for the future of DEIB?

-How does Amelia set DEI goals organizationally?

-What are the red flags to watch out for when looking for work?

-When people say one thing, but they mean something else 

And much more

Resources:

-Corporate DEI strategies are too focused on hiring. Here’s what to do instead: https://www.fastcompany.com/90890663/corporate-dei-strategies-are-too-focused-on-hiring-heres-what-to-do-instead

-Leading with Pride: Smartsheet achieves 100% on the Human Rights Campaign’s Corporate Equality Index: https://www.smartsheet.com/content-center/inside-smartsheet/diversity-equity-inclusion/leading-with-pride?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=linkedin&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=

Connect with Amelia Ransom:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ameliaransom/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Do you love jewelry? I do! But more than the jewelry, I love how today's guest makes beautiful jewelry accessible to many people. 

Mariana Chambers founded Cut + Clarity, a premier destination for customizable, fine jewelry sustainably crafted in NYC. As an immigrant from Buenos Aires, Argentina, Mariana lives out passion and tradition in every aspect of her life.   

Over the last two decades, Mariana has created jewelry collections for world-class brands and retailers. In 2017, as her family grew, so did Mariana’s desire to leave her daughter with a legacy she could be proud of—one that showcases her immigrant roots and the value immigrants create in local economies and throughout the country.

Today, we talk about Mariana's journey through building a business anchored in her mission and vision to uphold artisanal craftsmanship while improving the lives of people in the community. 

And while she loves making handcrafted jewelry, Mariana knows she has to leverage technology to grow her business further. She found a way inside the tech space, proving that an immigrant woman with an indomitable spirit can achieve astronomical success.

Join me in wishing Mariana the best of luck for her Techstars demo day pitch on January 11, 2024. 

"I envision a world where the value that we place on goods has as much to do with the actual thing that we're buying but also has much to do with how our purchase affects our community."

- Mariana Chambers

In This Episode:

-How Mariana found her way into the tech industry

-A fantastic display of Mariana's indomitable spirit

-Mariana's biggest takeaway from the hackathon

-Cut + Clarity mission and vision

-The reason for Mariana's passion to create beautiful  jewelry

-Current status of funding for women founders

-Mariana's advice for people who want to pursue their dreams

-What is there to love about getting older?

And much more

Connect with Mariana Chambers:

-Website: https://cutandclarity.co/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cutandclarityco/

-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cutandclarityco

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariana-russo-chambers-she-her-174b72a/

-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cutandclarityco

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com -

In a recent study by Fortune, one in five Gen Z’s reported not having spoken to anyone over 50 in the workplace in the last year, while 40% of people over 55 said they hadn't talked to a Gen Z. How did we get here?

How do we bridge this generational divide? Are the five generations at work a challenge to overcome, or are they an overlooked source of strength? 

Today I host the brilliant Professor Megan Gerhardt, founder and author of Gentelligence. Megan challenges the lazy stereotypes that pit generations against each other. She advocates for understanding our differences as an opportunity for mutual growth and innovation. 

One concept that really resonated was Megan's vision for "mutual mentoring" – an approach that replaces traditional top-down mentorship with a reciprocal exchange of knowledge and perspectives. 

So, whether you're a tech titan grappling with a multi-generational workforce or simply seeking to bridge the gap with colleagues from different age groups, this conversation is for you. 

Tune in to learn how you can foster smarter intergenerational conversations to transform your workplace into an environment where every generation feels valued and empowered.

“I believe generations matter, but they certainly are not everything. They are the beginning of the conversation to me, not the end of the conversation.” 

- Megan Gerhardt

In This Episode:

-An introduction to the Gentelligence concept

-The importance of age in the DE&I conversations

-Intergenerational warfare and generational labels

-Practical tools for smarter intergenerational conversations

-How to leverage generational norms

-The impact of remote work on workplace engagement and identity

-How to build intergenerational friendships

-Why mutual mentorship is beneficial

And much more.

Resources: 

-Purchase Professor Megan's book “Gentelligence”: https://a.co/d/ckOhax9 

-Join Gentelligence Academy: https://gentelligenceacademy.com/ 

Connect with Professor Megan Gerhardt:

-Website: https://profgerhardt.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megangerhardt

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -

In this solo episode, I break down the recent controversy surrounding a career guide published by Indeed, the world’s largest job site, with 365 million daily users and over 3.5 million employers. Here’s a teaser: The guide labeled ages 45-55 as “late career” and 55-65 as “decline,” sparking an outcry over its ageist language.

I stumbled across the uproar late one night on LinkedIn and decided to post my thoughts, which quickly went viral. Indeed responded within hours, issuing an apology and removing the offensive content, but the damage was already done!

The guide perpetuated harmful stereotypes, like the idea that workers in their 40s and 50s should aim for less demanding roles and stop learning new skills. This couldn’t be further from the truth—many of us are thriving in our careers at this stage, with plenty of energy and ambition.

While I appreciate how quickly Indeed responded, I still question how the management allowed the guide to be published in the first place. It raises concerns about whether they truly support an age-inclusive work environment. But this situation has opened up an important conversation about ageism, and I’m hopeful it will lead to lasting change.

Can several viral posts on LinkedIn really change how a major corporation thinks about age? Join me as we explore how this Indeed debacle can serve as a catalyst for real change in tackling ageism in the workplace. Don't worry—we'll get some solid career advice and probably a few laughs too.

In This Episode:

-Introduction and overview of Indeed’s corporate values

-Personal experience with the career guide controversy

-Career stages in Indeed’s career guide

-Critique of the career guide's advice

-Raising a successor for your position

-Retirement in your forties: myth or reality?

-The "decline" era: what to expect

-The reality of ageism in the workplace

-Indeed's apology and future steps

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

-Indeed’s live webinar on November 7, 2024, titled “Success and Satisfaction in the Later Stages of Your Career”: https://www.linkedin.com/events/7237487552620843009/ 

-Indeed’s article, “Ageism in the Workplace: Its Impact and How to Prevent It”: https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/ageism-in-the-workplace 

-Indeed’s article, “ADEA: An Employer's Guide to the Age Discrimination in Employment Act”: https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/adea#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20the%20ADEA,ability%20when%20making%20those%20decisions. 

-Maureen’s LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/maureenwclough_are-you-over-55-indeed-as-in-the-one-that-activity-7235228512918388738-wIYC?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube:

My guests today are Elizabeth Aniskevich from the AARP Foundation and lawyer Peter Romer-Friedman, two powerhouses in the fight against age discrimination. They're here to shed light on this pervasive issue that's been hiding in plain sight (or, should we say, in plain algorithms?).

Remember when job listings could brazenly ask for "recent college grads" or specify a maximum age? Well, those days might be gone, but the discrimination just got sneakier! Elizabeth shares some stats from AARP's research: a whopping 64% of older adults have seen or felt the sting of age bias, with 40% experiencing it after hitting the big 4-0.

Additionally, Peter shares his experiences battling Silicon Valley giants and their questionable hiring practices. We dive into the world of AI and algorithms, exploring how these supposedly neutral tools might be perpetuating age bias without anyone even realizing it.

We're covering everything from sneaky job ad targeting on platforms like Meta to the subtle ways ageism creeps into workplace culture. And the best part? We're not just complaining – we're talking solutions.

So, whether you're a seasoned tech pro, a coding newbie, or just someone who believes in workplace fairness, this episode is for you. Join us for an eye-opening conversation about age, tech, and justice.

"When you're talking about recruiting people, it's very different than recruiting customers for soap or paper towels or a car. When you're recruiting for a job or a mortgage or insurance, there are laws that say you can't exclude people based on who they are, including their age.”

- Peter Romer-Friedman

In This Episode:

-AARP research findings on the prevalence of ageism and its impact

-Elizabeth's journey into civil rights litigation

-Peter’s public interest litigation work and experience 

-Age discrimination in Silicon Valley

-Intersectionality and cultural factors that compound ageism 

-How AI and algorithms perpetuate discriminatory job postings

-The burden of proof in age discrimination cases

-Workplace diversity and the value of older workers

-Positive signs and cultural shifts in ageism 

And much more!

Connect with Peter Romer-Friedman:

-Website: https://prf-law.com/ 

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-romer-friedman-7031576/ 

Connect with Elizabeth Aniskevich:

-Website: https://www.aarp.org/aarp-foundation/ 

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-aniskevich-b3690617

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website:

Have you ever questioned whether you're in the right company or on the right career path? Are you suffering from burnout or feeling trapped in a toxic work environment and need to talk to someone but have no one to turn to whom you can trust? Today, I have an HR expert turned content creator who knows precisely what that's like, and she's here to offer sound advice on how you can survive as an employee in Corporate America - in a hilarious, candid way.

Leigh Elena Henderson - who, despite rising to prominence on the youthful TikTok, calls herself a “geriatric millennial” - has 20 years of Corporate America experience supporting five Fortune 100 companies as a Human Resources (HR) executive and has completed a master's in both business and HR. But even in these world-class household name-type organizations, Leigh has experienced firsthand the effects of a toxic workplace. That’s why she started putting out the cathartic, comedic, and constructive content we know as HRManifesto. It’s also how she began coaching corporate employees and HR practitioners across industries to find their best footing at work. 

What I love most about Leigh’s content is that she is free to say what many of us are thinking but cannot utter out loud…if we want to stay employed, that is. Focused on tragic work realities and inspired storytelling, the goal of HRManifesto is to unify followers around the shared human experience of work and provide coaching on how to survive the workplace and maximize professional success. Leigh uses her corporate knowledge, education, experience, and expertise to help people get out of terrible situations and into fulfilling and joyful careers.

Join us as we talk candidly about the corporate employee experience - and how it starts from the moment you hand in your resume to when you actually become an employee. We discuss the warning signs of a toxic work environment, biases that exist in the workplace (including age bias), and what you can do to survive or get away from such an environment. While we laughed a ton during our conversation (and I think you will, too), many of the issues we touched on were really serious. You might even see yourself in the scenarios we discuss. So don't miss out on this episode of It Gets Late Early. 

"If you're not honest with how you're really feeling and what you're not receiving and how you're not thriving and the people around you that don't value you (and perhaps you don't value them back), if you're not honest about that and accepting of that reality, you will never be spurred into action. You will never take the actions required to get out of that workplace."

- Leigh Elena Henderson

In This Episode:

-How Leigh got into the world of content creation from her beginnings in Corporate America

-One big reason we all should be thanking Gen Z - especially older generations

-Indicators that you are in a toxic workplace and why people react the way they do

-How one person’s toxic is…another’s dream scenario?

-Age discrimination towards younger workers and why some companies don't have 24-year-old executives

-Why age inclusivity in DEIB (diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging) hasn’t even come on the radar yet at many companies

-How coded language cloaks ageism 

-How can organizations increase their age diversity and enhance their DEIB initiatives?

-Red flags in the interview process that indicate you could be walking into a toxic workplace

-Mindset shifts to empower yourself during the interview process

-How Leigh thinks Corporate Tech is the biggest offender in exploitative interview processes

-Why Leigh thinks companies should pay you to...