I Survived Theatre School (Jen Bosworth Ramirez and Gina Pulice)

Intro: predicting the future, oh look! another example of income inequality!, would you want to live in a tiny house?, Pioneer House, Colonial House, Sherlock, Clementine Dimmerswitch,  Fort Atkinson Wisconsin. Plus! Miles makes an appearance in his lumberjack cape!
Let Me Run This By You: cancel culture, reconciling the artist with the art, Louis CK, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Patrice O'Neal, can people be funny without being offensive?, Sarah Silverman, Amy Schumer, Bill Cosby, our comic sensibility is determined by the narrative that already exists.
Interview:  We talk to Bradley Walker about being a terrible student, auditioning on a lark, being the son of a flight attendant, navigating social life in college, sleight of hand, working at Six Flags Over Texas, magician meltdowns, Detective Story, Lou Contey, sick John Bridges burns, Merrily We Roll Along, Sisterly Feelings, crewing for Emerald City and Into the Woods, voiceover work, the importance of a good partner.

Intro: The cult(ure) of skiing. Shapewear.
Let Me Run This By You: What is your emotional age? A parent's biggest job.
Interview: We talk to Justen Ross about doing theatre school on zoom, being a multi-hyphenate, and forging a new path for Black students at TTS.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
(00:00:08):

I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? So I was good, but it was, you know, is, uh,

(00:00:37):

It's like the, the culture is very snooty and exclusive and that kind of stuff is tiresome.

(00:00:47):

Yeah. I there's the culture. Right? So the culture around skiing is it's pretty hoity toity. I mean, if you think about it, it's like people are choosing to put two strips of wood on one foot in each strip and go down and snow. It's very, it's something you definitely choose to. Do you know what I mean?

(00:01:08):

It's a choice. It's a choice. So w when you were, was it your I'm guessing it was your dad? That was a skier.

(00:01:14):

So, uh, we had family, friends that were like, and we only did. We only did cross country skiing, but okay. But like, and my sister now, and her family did, they do some downhill skiing, but it was, so it was more, it was the culture around downhill skiing is so different than cross-country is dorky and downhill is like, cool. Right. So, but we, but I know the schlepping of the gear and the, and the, this, but the culture is so different. Like, it's really sort of a ragtag group that cross country ski versus downhill skiing.

(00:01:47):

Uh, see, I could see myself doing the cross country cause it's kind of like hiking, but just on skis, right? Yeah.

(00:01:52):

It's a great workout. It's a great workout. And it's also, you get to see, see the forest and see, see places, but it's, it's definitely kids are like, no, we want to go down. Like, what are you talking about?

(00:02:05):

But did you want to do that when you were a kid?

(00:02:09):

I was dragged into skiing and then I grew to like cross country skiing and I never have been downhill skiing.

(00:02:16):

Okay. But, um, I'm just saying like, did, were you one of the people who said to your parents, like, can we try downhill?

(00:02:24):

I think my sister might have, she was cooler in that way. I just didn't want it. I think I wanted to go ice skating. I wanted to, I did not. I did not say, Hey, let's try cross country skiing, but I definitely liked, I like my friends that went to like Vale for spring break or Christmas break from Evanston, they went to Vail, they went to Aspen. They went to, you know, I was jealous of that scene, but I think I was scared shitless to downhill ski. It's hard as hell.

(00:02:52):

Yeah. It looks really hard. It looks really hard. So when I was in sixth grade, um, we moved to a place where I was going to be in a different zone for my school district. Um, and so I did sixth grade in a different school than I had done first or kindergarten through fifth, which meant that I, and all those kids had been at that same school since kindergarten was. So it just meant that I didn't know any of those kids. And it was a rich school and one day I just remember them being like, so next week there's no school because it's ski week. And I probably just thought, I don't know. I don't know what I thought. So I went home on Friday and I said to my mom, there's no school next week. And she said, it's not because it was February or March was, it was too early for spring break.

(00:03:54):

She was like, it's not spring break. I said, it's ski week. And she goes, no, that's not a thing, mom. That's what all the kids are in. They're all going skiing. And she said for a whole week, we just had this back and forth because of course she was a single mom, like to, had to make, had to like quick. Right? Yeah. Just one of the many things. And you know, when we were there at this place, um, there was many a nanny with the younger kids. So you know that they paid to bring the nap. It just, wow. It's just a whole thing. And I don't, I'm not knocking it because I think if you can afford it and you like it, I think that's great. But it's just, I guess it's sort of still weird to me that, that, that there's just these rarefied pockets. Yeah.

(00:04:47):

Nothing has. I think that the, um, yeah, the, it hasn't changed. Like we've changed in some ways, but then there are these pockets of real classes sort of, um, look like good people, downhill ski. I'm not saying that, but the culture is one of, um, you know, elite it's elite. It's like skiing is not a thing. Like, like we said before that you have to do like walk, you know, like hiking, uh, you have to kind of walk so you can have, anyone can kind of hike, but skiing is a whole, you have to buy a lot of apparatus and the lab equipment or rent. And I remember my sister saying she took her, I thi...

Intro: David Schwimmer, Zazie Beetz, Grace Gummer, and Joe Sikora teach us about sexual harassment,
Let Me Run This By You: I think a ghost is peeing in my basement. Fulling mills, alcoholics, Johnny Depp, Britney Spears.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

2 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (39s):
Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. This is Gina reporting to you on a beautiful spring day. I hope it is a beautiful spring day wherever you are, or if it's not, I hope it will be very soon. We are guests lists in this episode today, as I reported to a couple of weeks ago should happens. We had recorded a great episode with a lovely person and just their audio didn't record at all. You know, just one of those things like internet gremlins, bloody body boss. So we're going to re up with him at some point, but we do have coming down the pike, a few really great episodes, including Glen Davis, the <inaudible> director of Steppenwolf theater company and Trammel Tillman, the actor who plays Mr.

2 (1m 28s):
Mel chick and severance. And if you listen to this podcast, do you know how much I love severance? I'm really, really excited about that one also Sumia Taka Shima. So we've got some really fantastic interviews lined up. I hope you will be tuning in and the upcoming weeks. And just another note to say, thank you so much for your ongoing support and listenership. We really love doing this podcast. Love making it for you. So we love that you enjoy listening to it. And if you haven't already, you should check out our website, undeniable writers.com and our social media.

2 (2m 14s):
We're on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Do you think we should get off of Facebook? Well, do you think we should get on Facebook? Do you think we should get off Twitter? See, I really want to make the great break. I want to get away from social media, but I feel I'm trapped now. You know, because professionally and personally, it's a great way to connect with a lot of people that I otherwise wouldn't be able to connect with, but it's, it's just this equal parts, terrible and wonderful creation, and we're all completely addicted to it. So, you know, who knows what's who knows how this is gonna work out for us?

2 (2m 55s):
Honestly, it could go either way. We could figure out a way to manage this problem and get on top of it and figure out a way to have enjoyment, but not addiction to social media. Or we could all find ourselves waking up in the middle of a Handmaid's tale. I mean, we are kind of headed that way. It's really looking like people want us to live in Gilliad. And for whatever reason, I just don't feel like people who don't want to live in Gilliad are good at making it so that we don't live in Gilead, myself included. What am I doing? I'm donating money.

2 (3m 36s):
I mean, fat, lot of good. That really does so, wow. This is taking a bad turn. I don't mean for it to do that. I really want to express my love and appreciation for you all and my excitement about our upcoming episodes and my wish that you connect with us on social media, that's killing us all. And I hope you enjoy today's episode, which we are entitling. I'm going to have to accept that. I will always look like Dora the Explorer at some point, please enjoy Hey, sexual harassment training.

2 (4m 41s):
So in order for my son to get his work permit, you know, through, you have to go through this training and it said it would take an hour. And I was thinking like, is that really gonna take an hour? It's like one full hour because it's one of these, did you ever have to do it? Yeah. You can't go to the next slide until

1 (5m 2s):
No, no. They make sure your ass is there for an hour. Gina.

2 (5m 6s):
That's right. And you know, I do have to say it is something I really miss about California. People complain about the bureaucracy and the, you know, and in this training, you know, it's infantilizing in certain ways. But like, if you have to make things accessible to all people and it's like, if it's infantilizing to you or you already know it, consider yourself lucky. Well also about the people that don't already know, it like

1 (5m 37s):
Gina, the, the majority of our world, especially those who harass people are in like infants who need hand-holding. So we need to infantilize them because they're fucking infants and they need this shit from the ground. Like, dude, I love it. Like, I love the fact that they won't, that they won't like fast-forward until you wash them. Because you know, these motherfuckers, the people who really need to watch it would fast forward through the whole thing and think they don't need it.

2 (6m 9s):
Yeah. I mean, maybe we actually need to be infantilizing. I am often accused of, You know, expecting too much from people, you know, like I just, the number of times somebody says to me, yeah. But I just don't think most people will understand that or, you know, think about it that way. Anyway, I completed it. And it was so the one you saw did it have like David Schwimmer and Zazie Beetz and Gracie Gummer I guess that was so sweet. And Joseph Cora,

1 (6m 48s):
Cora Joseph. I actually watched it with miles when miles, my husband had to do it for his new job. And I was like, I know all the And they must pay so much. I mean, like I either they're doing it for free or,

2 (7m 4s):
Oh, I assume they were doing it for free. I assumed it was like, we're doing this well. Cause it was through rain, rain made the videos. So I would assume that

1 (7m 13s):
People

2 (7m 14s):
Aren't asking rain to pay them

1 (7m 16s):
Like a million dollar

2 (7m 18s):
Scale or whatever.

1 (7m 21s):
No, my fee is actually 1.3 million for this sexual harassment for

2 (7m 27s):
Video, the second video

1 (7m 28s):
And tire rape video. Yeah. You're going to pay me anyway.

2 (7m 33s):
Hey, how are you? I love your crushed blue velvet.

1 (7m 37s):
Thank you. I, yeah, my, my standard thing now is like, I literally have like 10 meetings a day, which is hilarious. So a lot of it is my students getting ready to launch. So a lot of it is really motivated and highly stressed, 22 year olds that are like, ha who? And I love it. And I love meeting with them and they also are, you know, just exactly where we were the same thing of like, and in fact, a lot of them, yeah. They're ahead of where we were, because at least they know there's a fucking problem,

2 (8m 18s):
Right? Yeah. There, they don't necessarily have their head all the way up inside of the crevice of their ass. Like I did. Exactly. Well. That's cool. Yeah.

1 (8m 29s):
So I'm doing that. And like, I don't know. There was something I thought if you, I feel like I haven't talked to you in so long.

2 (8m 36s):
I agree. Well, I think it's because you have so many meetings. You're busy all day long. Thank goodness you have your new fancy office. How's it working?

1 (8m 44s):
I do. It's working great. We haven't, I'm in the focus room now because we don't have our rug yet. And our rug will mask all the sound. And also, yeah, I didn't to be in a booth. So we have...

Intro: writing comedy, Joss Whedon, unproblematic men, putting public figures on a pedestal, the hierarchy vs. collaboration dialectic.
Let Me Run This By You: White coat hypertension, writing seminars, Boz's success story!, navigating systems for your own benefit.
Interview: We talk to Reduced Shakespeare Company's Austin Tichenor about UC Berkeley, Boston University, law school, surviving a directing MFA.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Sean rock is comedic, true crime, serial killer thrillers. I don't know what that means. Great. I'm getting my popcorn ready to be very specific.

1 (48s):
So, and yeah, so I think that that's, I'm sort of finding my way in terms of like what? So I, I, I felt like, okay, I need to bite the bullet because it's also 30 pages. So it's not a lot like compared to a 60 page. Oh my God. So it's half the, not half the work, but like you have half the real estate, which in some ways is harder in some ways. So anyway, I had this idea and I, I have a friend of mine. Who's a comedy writer and I, I, and we were talking about this idea of these two women, sort of a dumb and dumber, but for women. And so we started, yeah. And we have these conference rooms here and speaking of dumb and dumber. So we have these conference from here with glass walls.

1 (1m 30s):
Right. And there's like dry erase markers. And there's, you can see some kind of old writing on the glass walls. Well, so we're writing, I'm writing in my, you're not supposed to write it in the glass walls. It, in fact does not come off the glass, speaking of dumb and dumber. So then I'm like, so someone knocks on the door and is like, Hey, you guys know that you're not supposed to be writing on the glass walls. And literally I've written on the whole wall. And I'm like, oh my God. So it took me an hour to get off with scrubs and I had to use different rag. Anyway, it's the stupidest thing because there's no other place to write in the room and there's no whiteboards, so there's something wrong here. But so in, in step with, with sort of dumb and dumber, but anyway, so we're writing this like half hour comedy about just two women that are really dumb, but they're not really dumb.

1 (2m 24s):
Of course they're genius in their own way. But I liked the idea of like seeing women. Yeah. Just seeing women do really dumb shit like bridesmaids, you know, like you're like, yeah, like that kind of a thing. So I don't know how it's going to go. And we just started and we're like meeting, you know, once every couple of weeks, but like, it's good for me too. I also, there's a to study comedy. Like I'm never in my life, like I've done a lot of sort of study and research about drama and crime, but nothing on comedy. And there's a course, a million classes and stuff like that, which I'm not taking, but there's also like books and stuff that I always shied away from.

1 (3m 7s):
I think it was scared. Like, I don't know how you feel, but like, I feel like comedy is so hard to do right. That like, I just was scared of it.

2 (3m 16s):
Yeah. 90% of the comedy you see is terrible. I mean, and that's just talking about the stuff that gets made. So yeah, no, it's really a comedy is, as the saying goes, whatever it is, death, death is hard comedies. I forget. There's something about death. Something's harder. Writing comedy is harder than death, but that thing that you were saying about the toxic work environment, I've heard that too. And actually I was just reading the New York article about Josh Sweden.

1 (3m 50s):
Oh my God. Yes. And about the writers in the room and that, that one writer and he's reading or shit, and he's like making fun. I mean, he should be fucking, I mean, I shouldn't say that he should be hurt badly.

2 (4m 4s):
So for people who don't know, Josh Sweden was the showrunner of Buffy the vampire Slayer. And he was heralded as a feminist. I mean, icon practically. In fact, when I first heard that he was not who he appeared to be, I instantly flashed, I had this patient who had endured a lot in her life. Let's just say that. And she was extremely feminist and that was her favorite show. And he was her favorite person. And, and I distinctly remember her saying, he's like one of the only good guys in, in Hollywood, something like that, something to that effect.

2 (4m 53s):
And honestly, what the hell, I mean, please write a profile about unproblematic men. I it's gotten to the point where I'm like, is nobody

1 (5m 5s):
I'm doing the right thing. I just, I mean, you said a brilliant line, like which I'm going to steal and put in my script, which is in, in hold my calls, which is he's one of the Hollywood good guys or something like that. I think we all are. So looking for that, that when someone appears to be that we cling to them desperately in hopes that they will save all other men and it never works. Like they're all problematic. And I think of course we're all problematic all humans, but, but this is a special brand of problematic in Hollywood in creating art in, in showrunning land and also just Hollywood in general.

1 (5m 49s):
So like, this is a very specific type of toxic asshole man. And there are so many, so many. And so I agree, I need a profile about, but see, as soon as that comes out, there's going to be a woman that's like that dude. Fuck.

2 (6m 4s):
Oh, yeah. Right, right. Right. So remember when you were getting your MFA and you were had to watch all those old films and you said they were all written by women. What I never heard is when, why did that change and what was the,

1 (6m 20s):
So nobody, they, they ran out of men, journalists, writers to write the sort of storylines for the new, for new movies. Right. For the new art of cinema. So first they were silent. Right. And then, then there were titles, you know, let people wrote. And those were written by usually at the beginning, mostly journalist men. Right. And like newspaper, men like that, then they literally ran out. I think of men, people that could write. Right. So they, so women started submitting write some under fake names under, but a lot under their real names. And they didn't give a shit because they didn't get credit.

1 (7m 1s):
So nobody cared. They were women. Right. Cause it wasn't, they weren't on the screen. So as writers, so women really took over, like they, they, I think they just took over. Okay. So that was going great until I believe what happened was until the, the money men got involved from New York. Yeah. So it became a business. So then the money men financed the films, bankers and then women, I think like the first world war, right. Was what was, was, well, I don't know,

2 (7m 41s):
1917

1 (7m 43s):
Something like, I don't know. We're, we're, I'm dumb. So, but like around there the men had to go to war and the women had to take care of the kids. Right. So there was no one to there. They couldn't, it transitioned to more stereotypical gender roles and women stopped writing and then it just took over for

2 (8m 2s):
Yeah, I see. Okay. Well you're right. I mean, it's also like, it's fine for you to do all this work as long as you're not taking credit, but when it comes time for everybody to really recognize this as an art form...

Intro: Boz did not invent timezones, JetBlue, Gina makes an embarrassing mistake, Boz has to run her own job interview.
Let Me Run This By You: The world is coming to an end so do we still have to do yoga and stuff? Feminist Body Horror, Bros in Hollywood, Vincent Kartheiser, there's a FIGHT AT CO-WORKING!!
Interview: We talk to Dave Deveau about being a child actor, Are You Afraid of the Dark, D.J. McHale, the way we stigmatize the bodies of actors (incl. child actors), York University, the Toronto drag scene, Peach Cobblah, Zee Zee Theatre Company, and Carousel Theatre For Young People.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? How you doing? What's going on? Oh my God. I have a similar, I have a similar situation going, whatever that look was. Yeah, you go first. You go first. Okay girl. So, you know, I'm hustling, hustling, trying to get a job. And yesterday, so weird.

1 (49s):
I yesterday we finally miles and I finally figured out like, maybe I should just work at his company because there are good anyway, lovely people, whatever. So I just submit my resume and a cover letter for a job that I, that is supposedly open, write a great cover letter. Cause that's what I Excel at. I mean, anything else goes to shit, but I can really do a cover letter. So no, but so I sent it and then I get this call. Okay. So then I'm going to see in the car, our friend, Erica, our good friend, Erica. So I'm going to see her and we're going to take a walk and talk about this possible documentary. You know that you and I want to make whatever.

1 (1m 30s):
So I get five Ms. Calls from Miami and I'm like, what? I know no one in Miami, like Miami is like a place. I know no one. So I'm like, well, I'm not going to pick up. And finally I'm in, I'm in the drive through of the Starbucks and I make it a habit of not talking on the phone while I'm picking up my drink. So I'm like someone I'm like thinking someone's in trouble. You know? Like that's where I go. I'm like someone's in jail or my knee is whatever. So it's this woman. And she, you can tell, you know, like English is not her first language. That's fine. Like English is barely my first language anyways. So I'm talking, she's like, hi, we have an interview for you today at this company.

1 (2m 11s):
You know the company. And I'm like, oh, okay, well she's like, can you do it at 3:00 PM Eastern time? And I'm like 3:00 PM Eastern time to one to one that's that's noon. Right? Yeah. Noon. I, sorry. I had to do the thing. That's what you were saying. Oh no, no, no. It's noon. And I'm like any it's 1140 at the time or yeah, it's 1140 LA time. And I'm like, okay. So, so in 20 minutes she goes, no 3:00 PM. And I said, okay, just send me the invite. I'll cancel. So I canceled with Erica and then I'm waiting on the invite. And then I get the, I rushed back to put, throw some lipstick on and rush back to coworking to do the interview.

1 (2m 57s):
And I have like a, an invite from her that 5:00 PM LA time. Okay. So then I'm like, okay. So then I call this person and I'm like, Hey person. And then it is a comedy of mother. This is just like a tip of the iceberg of my day. Yesterday of motherfucking errors. She goes, no 3:00 PM. Your time is 5:00 PM. It became it. And then it was, it was so insane. And I'm like, listen, lady, am I supposed to jump on a call in five minutes? Do I click this in five?

1 (3m 37s):
Like at this point I'm shouting. I don't know what to do. And she's like, no, you're not letting me speak. I said, okay, go ahead. And she proceeds to say, I'm looking, I don't know what, she doesn't know that my husband works for the company. She goes, I'm looking at my boss's calendar and we have you. And then she starts talking about mountain time and I'm like, lady mountain time is an hour let later. And then she didn't understand. So I literally Gina, Gina, this is what I said I am. So I didn't know what else to do. It was like talking to a drunk, right. Or a person out of control or a crazy like, like I said, listen, ma'am ma'am I don't, I don't invent or make time zone.

1 (4m 26s):
I didn't know how else to. I said they are a thing that I cannot change. And she goes, what? And they said, here's the thing, like what you're saying? Is it actually making any it's not working? And I go, I don't, I didn't invent time zones. It's a real thing. And she just was quiet. And I said, okay. And I had her boss's email and I'm the kind of bad bitch now where I'm like, I'm just going to cut out. I can't do this. So I just don't have it in me. I'm old. And I'm, I'm just, I know my shit. So I'm like, thank you so much for your help. I got to go. And then I just emailed her boss and was like, listen, your assistant. And I are like having an epic comedy of errors, like time zone, garbage fire.

1 (5m 12s):
What do you want me to do? And she goes, oh, she wrote back and said, no, no, it's, it's one 30 your time, two 30 mountain time. And the other person on the call is in New York. It just, this is the working remotely different times, zones, English being a problem. And also like, I think that it's so interesting. I think the assistant was trying to be assertive and like hold boundaries and thought, I didn't understand that we actually had a fundamental problem about like math. Right, right, right. So then, and then this, and then I said, okay, so I got that settled. I said, I'm going to jump on this call in an hour then.

1 (5m 54s):
Yes. Okay. Then I get a call from the assistant again. And like, hi, she goes, I am so sorry. And I said, you know what it is. Okay. She goes, I, I said, don't even worry about it. I just, I couldn't. I literally said like, Gina, I couldn't take it anymore. Ma'am I had, I had to, I had to do something else.

2 (6m 16s):
Yeah. Yeah. I had to stop. It had though, we were just like Susan powder. We had to stop the insanity. It was just getting out of control. I had a similar comedy of errors with jet blue. Okay. Which is to say, go going back about, no, not even a month. Like actually it was only two and a half weeks ago. You know, we had this plan thing where Aaron was gonna take the boys to Utah and I was taking precedent for them. And I had a feeling that he never booked the tickets, but I didn't, I didn't put that fee.

2 (6m 57s):
It was one of those things. I didn't put it in the front of my brain. So we're sitting around and I go, what time do you leave on Saturday? He says, oh, I gotta look at my email. So he's looking, I could see the panic is going over his face. And long story short, he, he didn't book the tickets. And so I, I said I would do it, but the jet blue website was having a problem. So I would go, I would get everything all teed up. And then when I tried to book it, it would say there was a problem. Correct. So I did that four times.

1 (7m 27s):
They charged you four times. So

2 (7m 28s):
They charged my credit card. I mean like $15,000.

1 (7m 36s):
Yeah, sure, sure.

2 (7m 38s...

Toxic showrunners, giving feedback, halitosis, The Taking of Pelham 123, Victory Gardens Theatre, Autism Spectrum Disorder.

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Kalichi.

3 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

4 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

3 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (34s):
You're committed to that, Joe, how you doing pal

1 (41s):
For your big adventure?

2 (42s):
Getting ready for my Pee-wee's big adventure, by the way, I watched that movie again, not too long ago and I liked it even more. I

1 (53s):
Was so thrilled to hear.

2 (54s):
Yeah. I really, really liked that movie. I think it's so funny. The other thing I, oh, so you had texted me earlier about into the woods.

1 (1m 3s):
Oh yeah. I actually genuinely wanted to know cause is this w two in this episode, are we going to hear from C? Like, is this the,

2 (1m 12s):
He didn't make the cut. I'm sorry.

1 (1m 16s):
Are you kidding?

2 (1m 17s):
I'm not kidding. It just, it did. Well, it was,

1 (1m 21s):
Oh gee. I feel sad in my heart. What?

2 (1m 25s):
I'm sorry. It was just boring. It was just boring. You know, there's an age that kids reach. There's just a line. They go past a line. It's like, okay, you're not as

1 (1m 35s):
Sweet a minute. Wait a minute because it's

2 (1m 37s):
When they're not. So it's it's because she's no, she's self-aware

1 (1m 41s):
I like had the bus time.

2 (1m 43s):
I'm so glad and I'll forever treasure it in my heart as this beautiful, lovely conversation that I, and, and my family and you will love, but it was not giving me it was not giving me. Okay,

1 (1m 57s):
Great. Well, that's important. Like maybe it was a good, like,

2 (2m 2s):
It was a good experience. It was a good experience for her and, you know, and we had wanted to do it. And so when, when, when I did crew for, into the woods, you know, we had to listen

1 (2m 15s):
To that.

2 (2m 18s):
We had to listen to that song or that, that music constantly. And actually, I think that when you, when we were in crew, like we didn't get to see the show

1 (2m 29s):
Ever. Never, never knew

2 (2m 31s):
Listen to something only, and you don't get to take in the whole thing. It's just not the same. And so I had it in my mind that I really hated that show. And when the movie came out, my kids were really interested in seeing it. I kind of liked it. I at least understood the story. I was at least like, oh, this is what this is about. But seeing it on Broadway, I was like, okay, now I get it. I get it. I totally get why. And it's not just that it was on Broadway. Is that I understand what it's about now, because,

1 (3m 10s):
Well, I think, I also think it's so interesting about the theater school aspect, right? So when we were in theater school, we, I didn't have any capacity to understand about loss and love. Yeah,

2 (3m 28s):
Yeah, yeah. So it was great. So I loved to NPV. I loved so I've, I'm actually, I had wanted a lump for a long time to ask you, you told me about a few things that you've watched rewatch haven't hold held up, which we all have those things. It's like, oh, this is not nearly as good as I thought it was, or it's funny, but what has, have, has anything gotten better? Like you didn't appreciate it at the time. And then

1 (3m 55s):
Yeah. So all the like old political movies or movies that have a bent with social justice stuff like, so the taking of Pelham 1, 2, 3 is my favorite movie of all time.

2 (4m 11s):
I don't even know what that is.

1 (4m 13s):
You have to, they made a remake with Denzel Washington and John Travolta that's horrific, but the original is Walter Matthau and a bunch of other dope actors. And it's about, it's a train heist movie. It's about New York city and the train thunder, obviously the subway being taken over brilliant acting, brilliant writing, great social commentary about the haves and haves nots anyway. So that has held up and gotten better. But all of John Hughes movies should be burned in a heap,

2 (4m 53s):
Just trash.

1 (4m 54s):
What, what the fuck? What are we doing?

2 (4m 57s):
God, there's so much, we didn't know. There's just so much. We didn't know. And actually that's been kind of, my theme recently is like, you know how we always say, oh man, think about how many people before there was this acceptance around LGBTQ, think about how many people just died and you know, for him, for all of history up until that point, it was just horrible for those people. And I, so I've been wondering recently, well, okay, well, so what's our version of that. What's our thing that we don't know. We, we ascribe something to something that it's not, and that we'll understand later or, or not at all. And one example is autism.

2 (5m 42s):
I have recently learned that somebody I love is on the spectrum and it has really positively changed my perception. It's literally like a person does a behavior and you interpret it this one way and then you learn something. And then that same behavior no longer is interpreted that way.

1 (6m 13s):
Absolutely

2 (6m 14s):
Behavior that drove me crazy made me angry, riled me up. Now I'm like, oh, you have autism. Got it, got it. I'm so sorry. I didn't get it. And actually I'm looking back through my family tree and I'm going, oh, I bet my mom's mom had autism. And actually she had a therapist who said that to her at once. And when my mom told me that I'm like, what? She didn't have autism, but she was on the spectrum. Right. When rain man came out, it taught us that it made us think that all autism was that right.

1 (6m 49s):
Right. Was like savant or like, so on the other end of the spectrum, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. So autism. Yeah. That's so interesting. Well, you know, I, I think I've mentioned on the podcast that like, I use the word lame and my cousin called me on it and I called someone else on it recently. And that's how change is made. Like literally. And so there is, I'm like obsessed with the idea of how does real change get made? Like not in, just in words, but like, what is the alchemy that happens with change?

1 (7m 32s):
And I know the answer, but I'm doing a lot of research.

2 (7m 36s):
Well, the thing that you just mentioned about using that word reminds me of in medical school or medical training, it's they say, see one, do one, teach one. So when you're learning procedures, you watch it once you do it once and then you teach it, like, that's, that's the, that's the rate at which you're expected to absorb information, but actually that's exactly what you did with that word. You heard that you heard or saw that, that wasn't okay. You started to do the right thing yourself and then you taught somebody else. But that's how change happens.

1 (8m 18s):
Let me run this by you. <inaudible> with this highlight

2 (8m 32s):
Beachy wave, actually, that's funny because earlier today I was like, should I get my hair cut before

1 (8m 38s):
I love that? See what you want? So it change the way change gets made. Okay. I have a little story about a show about show running. Okay. I was talking to it. What I want to ask you. I was talking to a friend and she's dope and she's a new friend and she's fancy. Or, and then I am in terms of where she's at in her career as a writer. Okay, fine. Has this great idea for a series has a lit agent, lit agent says, Hey, every production company read this dope script and th...

Intro: buzzsaws and clean slates, rage, Where the Wild Things Are
Let Me Run This By You: Money
Interview: We talk to Carole Schweid about Juilliard, Phoebe Brand, John Lehne, Michael Brand, Midnight Cowboy, musical comedy performance, open dance calls, starring in the original cast of A Chorus Line, Bob Fosse, Pat Birch, Martha Graham, Minnie's Boys, Mervyn Nelson, playing Fastrada in the first national tour of Pippin, being a lone wolf in theatre, Lewis J. Stadlen, doing West Side Story at Bucks County Playhouse, Shelly Winters, Mary Hinkson, Nellie Forbush in South Pacific, playing Tzeitel in Fiddler on the Roof, Peppermint Lounge, Nick Dante, Michael Bennett, Marvin Hamlisch, Public Theater, Gerry Schoenfeld, The Shubert, the wish for a job vs. the real experience of working, Theda Bara & The Frontier Rabbi, Agnes de Mille, Play With Your Food, Staged Reading Magic, Albert Hague.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later,

2 (16s):
We're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense

1 (20s):
If at all we survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? As more space is actually a huge thing.

2 (36s):
Yeah. I have to apologize for the sound of buzz saws. What is going to be going the whole time I'm talking, doing well, you

1 (50s):
Took some trees down, right.

2 (53s):
You know, that's how it started. Yeah. It started with actually, you know, it all was a surprise to me, basically one we've been talking about taking down all the trees in the front of our house. And one day Aaron said, they're coming tomorrow to take down the trees. And I'm like, how much did that cost? Because you know, taking down trees is usually really expensive. And so he says, well, he's going to do everything in the front for whatever. It was $5,000.

1 (1m 22s):
Yeah. She was pretty good for more than one tree. Cause one tree we had removed was $5,000 at my mom's.

2 (1m 28s):
Well, and it's not like they have to extract the whole tree. It's just, you know, just chopping it down. Like it's not, I don't know if it's different when they have to take out the, yeah,

1 (1m 38s):
I think it is when they have to take the stump out the roots and all that.

2 (1m 43s):
So that was fine. Although I did think to myself, Hmm. We have $5,000 to spend and this is what we're spending it on.

1 (1m 54s):
I've been there. Oh, I've been there

2 (1m 56s):
So the morning, but I'm letting it go. And so the morning comes and he tells me to go outside so we can talk about the trees and, and, and I, anyway, we, we designate some trees and they're all in the lower part of the front of our house.

1 (2m 10s):
Yes. You, and by the way, for people that don't know, like you have a lot of land for, for, for, for not being in the super super country, you have a lot of courage. I mean, you got a lot of trees.

2 (2m 21s):
Well, yeah, we have an acre and it's a lot of trees and it's a lot of junk trees. What they call junk trees. Because the idea here is once upon a time, when everybody got their heat from wood, you had to have fast growing trees. So it's these skinny trees. Yeah. Anyway, so I thought we were sort of on the same page about what we were going down. This is where I'm getting with this. And I had a couple of meetings yesterday and I was hearing the sound pretty close, but it wasn't until I looked outside that I saw, they took everything out.

2 (3m 1s):
The, every living thing out in the, in the front, in front of our house, including the only tree I was really attached to was I have a beautiful lilac tree.

1 (3m 14s):
Okay. Oh shit. And everything out.

2 (3m 21s):
What's that? Why they

1 (3m 22s):
Take everything out? Is that the plant? I think,

2 (3m 25s):
I think what happened was for the first couple of days, the boss was here. And then I think yesterday, the boss was like, you guys just go and finish up. And I don't know that anyway, you know what, I'm just choosing it to be, I'm choosing to look at it like, okay, well we're getting to start over and it can be exactly how we want it to be. So yeah,

1 (3m 45s):
That is a great attitude because there's nothing you can do you really do about it? Absolutely. Zero. You can do about threes coming out.

2 (3m 53s):
The only bummer is that it sounds like buzz saws all day at my house and at my neighbor's house, I'm sure they're annoyed with us too. Well,

1 (4m 2s):
What are you going to put? It is. Okay. So, so, okay. The good, that's the sort of wonky news, but what the good news is, what are you going to put in? Like, is there going to be a whole new,

2 (4m 12s):
I think it's just going to GRA, I mean, I think it's just going to be grass, which is fine. I mean, my thing was actually, it does a little bit of a metaphor because when we first moved here, we loved how quiet and private and everything is. And part of why everything feels very private at our house is there's trees and bushes blocking our view of anything. I mean, all we can see is trees and bushes when we're laying on the front, which for a while seemed cozy. And then it started to seem like annoying that we could never see. And actually there's kind of a really beautiful view of the mountains behind us. So our mountains Hills.

1 (4m 51s):
Yeah. But I mean, small mountains, like small

2 (4m 53s):
Mountains. Yeah. So I realized that it does coincide with our psychological spelunking and trying to just be like more open about everything. Like totally. You know what I mean? Like this is just be open to people seeing our house. This is open to seeing out and let's have, and actually my kids were kind of like, oh, but it's just also open and we don't have any privacy. And I'm like, yeah, well you have your room and bathroom. I mean, there's, there's places to go if you don't want people to, to see you, but let's just be open.

1 (5m 31s):<...

Intro: Condragulations
Let Me Run This By You: The David Chase method 
Interview: We talk to Blake Hackler about surviving multiple theatre schools on both sides of the equation.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
And Jen Bosworth wrote me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? 

1 

00:00:28

Good morning. Did you quit your hair? No, 

0 

00:00:31

It's just dirty and crumpled up. 

1 

00:00:35

Let's see a shirt. This is my, I always wear this. My RuPaul can dry. Do you know what? I've never seen that shirt on you. Oh really? I've never seen that shirt. It's amazing. Oh yeah. RuPaul is just like, yeah, I I'd love to have, you know, the dinner party question. Who would you have? Let's say five, five people living or dead. Okay. Your dinner party. Well, Frida Kahlo. Yeah, of course. Maya Angelou. Oh yeah. Prince. Although he would be so weird, like he's a good point. Good point. He'd have to prefer, okay. Frida Kahlo, Maya Angelou, prince James Baldwin. 

1 

00:01:17

And I don't know who the fifth one is. You know, you should probably, I guess somebody kind of dumb in there because that's such a smart group that it might be. I would be intimidated at night group. Okay. Not that she's dumb, but I was thinking maybe she's not dumb, but she would, she would definitely add levity is Joan Rivers. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my God. That would be amazing. Might be the best answer to that question. I have <inaudible> let me run this by. You have to start over. 

1 

00:01:59

So, so I wrote an outline in two days, Monday and Tuesday was outline days. And then I had, and I, and I turned my outline into my mentor, who I love, but who, you know, because she's a mentor triggers me and I've had to work through like yesterday. I'll talk about what I had to work through with her, had nothing to do with her, of course, as we know nothing to do with her. So I wrote the outline in two days. So my outline was 11 pages and she wrote me back and said, you're in good shape, go to script. And I told you this yesterday, but she wrote back. And so she'll put notes on like a format, usually Adobe or Google docs. 

1 

00:02:39

There's one of those, but I didn't see the notes. So I thought I was in such good shape that I could take that I took none of her notes and just went to script. So it was a setback. So then I got, she wrote me and said, I feel like you didn't take any one of my notes. Is there a read? And I thought what notes it was a whole company situation. So then I wrote her and said, of course, Don, of course I would take your notes. I just didn't see them. And so then basically I had to start over and changed my outline and then re go back and do a second draft of the script. So I wrote, I've written two drafts in four days. 

1 

00:03:21

Yep. I mean, congratulations. That is quite a feat. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Thank you, beans. And I, my question to you is, and I talked a little bit about it yesterday, but I want to get into it. I, and it's kind of like what we talk about with the theater school of phew state or blacking out or not. I, I have a hard time in the thing being present in the moment, and I know I'm not alone, but like during the writing, it's almost like I have to access a different part of my brain that has to not be present in order to get the work done because my brain will judge the shit out of it so hard. 

1 

00:04:06

And I was thinking maybe at the theater school, we couldn't take in all the things that were coming at us. So we had to shut off the part of the brain that remembers everything could be. I mean, I, I tend to think about it as, because the theater school was so much about reflecting you back to yourself and if you weren't ready to see that it was too overwhelming to you, you had to shut that part out. But yeah, I think that, I think that old thing about, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher appears, I think that's really true. You have to be all the, all the factors have to conspire to make you in a place to be able to face something a hundred percent. 

1 

00:04:55

Like, I think that mostly we don't face anything at a hundred percent in our lives. That's too overwhelming. Some we're lucky to get like 50% or 60%. So yeah, the judgment monster inside of us takes up a lot of space and you probably have to do some gymnastics to get yourself to put that month. Maybe that you give that monster another task while you're trying to. Right. What I w yes, exactly. And so what I did was I thought, okay, well, I also was on a deadline because I had set myself up for a situation where, you know, I just needed to get it done without getting too much into it. 

1 

00:05:36

So I don't look like a total ass, but I, but it's a good thing. It's all good things. But I, and, and this, we talk about, we've talked about too, how in Hollywood people probably pitch things that they don't have the full draft written. And that makes me feel better because I was like, okay, so the bottom line is I, I pitched something that I didn't have a script for duh, but that's what I'm, that's what I did. So I think the, the thing that, the way that I got it done was because I thought about it and I thought, okay, well, even if people had deadlines, they could choose to not get it done. Right? Like, just because you have a deadline, doesn't mean, you know, but I'm such a rule follower that I'm like, oh, there's a deadline. I'll do it. That helped. But the other thing that helped me was literally the structure of the process, trust the structure of the process of the David Chase method. 

1 

00:06:26

That is the big, big, huge outline. Then you get your outline approved, and then you can take, you can though each of those slug line paragraphs can stand alone, right? So you can move it anywhere in the script. So you literally cut it and paste it. So what that means is nothing is set in stone, which I love. And everything's a work in progress, which I also love as a psychological tactic for like living life work in progress, not perfect. And then it gives me freedom. And so then when I sat down, when I had the outline in the, in the order that I felt for the moment was really good. 

1 

00:07:09

When you sit down to write the actual quote script, all you really doing is shortening your, your outline and adding dialogue. That sounds great, by the way, is that also the Matthew Weiner way? Cause I know he worked for this apprentice. Okay. I'm sure. I'm sure I bet you there. Exactly. Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense to me because one of the things I really love about the Sopranos is that it's, it tells t...

Intro: Do we have to be a mess? Representation matters. When you weren't there they day they told you how to pronounce cashew.
Let Me Run This By You: Are you afraid of death? 
Interview: We talk to Jen Ellison about not only surviving theatre school but going on to teach there too, the ethical quandaries that can arise when teaching ethics, differences between students at different schools, the handling of gender issues in the Gen X drama school world, Too Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind, Oliver, playing boys, Asheville, If You Don't Dance They Beat You.

Intro: Crypto bros, missing the great economic bubbles of the early 2000s. We may as well have cotton candy furniture, Severance on Apple TV, Bad Vegan.
Let Me Run This By You: Stage Moms, kindergarten theatre.
Interview: We talk to Joe Basile about Long Island accents, NYU Tisch, Bradley Walker, Ensemble Studio Theatre, Liz Lerman's Critical Response Process, Mary Zimmerman's Metamorphoses, the Neo-Futurists Too Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind (The Infinite Wrench), perfectionism,  Roundabout Theatre Company,  A Bright Room Called Day, Suzan Lori Parks, Go Humphrey, sock puppet Showgirls, keeping the thread of community after college ends.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
3 (10s):
And I'm Gina Kalichi.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (32s):
Okay. I'm getting, I'm getting it together. I, Yeah, I woke up with this really interesting idea that I wanted to run by you, which was, cause I was really tired when I woke up and I thought, okay, everyone's tired when they wake up. And then I thought, well, and they always say like, Americans, you know, never get enough sleep. We're always tired. But like nobody ever investigates why really? Why that is that our system is really fucked up. So like, I don't know. I just was like, yeah, we always do all these like expos A's on like sleep or wellness. Right? Like Americans are the fattest and the most unhealthy. And I'm only speaking about Americans because that's where we live. I don't know shit about Madrid.

2 (1m 13s):
You know, I'm sure they're they have their own plethora of fucking problems. But I'm just saying like, we don't actually do the work to like, figure out what is wrong. We're just like, Americans are, this Americans are that nobody's getting enough sleep. And like, there's all these, you know, sort of headlines. Right. And we're not just like, well, why is nobody getting enough sleep? Like what is actually happening? So that was my grand thought upon waking up was like, yeah, like, I don't know. We just never dig deep in this case. We're not big on digging.

4 (1m 46s):
Probably not. I mean, I think our lifestyle overall is pretty unhealthy and it's because of our economic model.

2 (1m 58s):
What I was gonna say, it all boils down to see the thing is the more you talk to people, the more I do the angrier I get, especially like in my office, like slash co-working, like I gravitate towards the ladies and a lot of ladies of color. And we end up sitting around talking about how like capitalism and systematic racism and sexism are all tied together and how, and by the end, we're just so angry. We're like, okay, what can we do? And we're like, okay, well we need to stop putting money in the pockets of this old white man who owns the coworking. But like we have nowhere else to go. So we're like, now we're screwed. So anyway, it's interesting. It's like it all, every conversation I have of meaning with you or with my cousin and it all boils down to the same thing.

2 (2m 43s):
And then you end up thinking, I ended up thinking the really, the only way is mass extinction and starting over with a new species, fresh slate, fresh or revolution, right. Or some kind of bloody revolution, it's going to be bloody because you know, the, the, the, the people in power aren't going to let go as we see. So like, we're not, it's not good is all, but I don't feel necessarily like, and maybe it's because I took MTMA, but like, I don't necessarily feel terrible about it. I feel just like, oh yeah, like we're, we're headed towards this way, unless something drastic happens. And I'm not sure that's a terrible thing. Now I don't have children.

2 (3m 23s):
So I might feel totally different about my children and my children's children and their children, but I just don't, that's not my frame of mind. So anyway, that's what I was thinking as I was so tired, waking up.

4 (3m 35s):
Is there any world in which you and the other women in coworking can just put your, just rent and office?

2 (3m 44s):
So we're starting to organize to like, be like, okay, you know, like who would want to go in on a lease, you know? But the thing is, it's so interesting. It's like, well, maybe it's LA, but it's also the world. Like, people don't really trust it. Like we don't really know each other that well yet. So we'd have to like do credit checks and thank God. My credit is good. Thank God. Now it was terrible. But all this to say is that like also LA so transitory that people are like in and out and, and like my, you know, travel. It's just so it's such a weird existence, but we are talking and there's a guy, a black dude. Who's also like my financial guru guy who like, who works at co-working.

2 (4m 28s):
I met here, he's a mortgage guy. And he's just been like, talking to me all about fucking crypto bros and like how the crypto bros are like, he's like, it is insane. Now, Gina, did you know, now I'm just learning about this world. And he's like, it's all, make-believe basically we live in the matrix and that fucking, there is something called the virtual real estate. Did you know this? Okay, you can purchase virtual squares of real estate, like Snoop Dogg's house, like, like, and people are doing it. And the people who are, it's like a status thing and it's expensive. And the people who are becoming billionaires are the people who run the apps.

2 (5m 9s):
Right. Are the people who created the fucking program. We are in the matrix. And I was like, wait, what? And he showed me the site where you can buy any town. If you looked into your town, people are doing it. It is, it is consumerism mixed with people are buying things that don't exist.

4 (5m 29s):
Okay. Yeah. I feel like this is what happens when people with an unchecked power and privilege, it's like, okay, well, like literally we're just making it up. Let's just have cotton candy, be our furniture now. Like it's. So I tried to get into Bitcoin.

2 (5m 50s):
Oh yeah.

4 (5m 51s):
Like about five years ago, somebody that I went to high school with is rich from Bitcoin. And, and she was like one of the founders of one of these companies. And so the first problem I have is you shouldn't invest in anything that you don't understand. Right. So I tried to read about it and I'm just like, but what, I just kept reading and being like, yeah, but what is it? Right. You know, what's an NFT.

2 (6m 20s):
Oh my God. The NFTs. Oh my God. And his name is Lamont and I love him. And he was trying to teach me about those. And I was like, Lamont. I have to take some kind of drug to understand what you're saying. I don't,

4 (6m 31s):
I have, I, you kn...

Intro: Death Valley, camping, San Pedro, LSD, rageaholics, serial killers
Let Me Run This By You: the perils of not letting you be you, codependency is like an MLM because there is no end user
Interview: We talk to Jen Kober, who says she was "NOT a happy camper" while at TTS. Getting cut, knowing yourself, being among the first fat girls accepted into the program, being taken "back to neutral", comedy, terrible casting, The Birds, Rob Chambers, the value of knowing yourself, TTS then vs now, Columbia College, Second City, Improv Olympic, The Purge, Marty deMaat, Clinton v. Bush, Betsy Hamilton, Sinbad, Phyllis Griffin, San Francisco Comedy Competition, and Vidzu.

Intro: Jen tells us about her Disney audition and a conversation about "getting discovered" myths ensues.
Let Me Run This By You: We talk home decor and what informs a person's personal style. Do you even know what your style is? When did you learn? Then we talk about decorating for the holidays and the potentially dangerous resentment trap that often comes along with it. Should we all just get Prince-themed Christmas decorations? Or what about a fully Anthropologie/Mexican Street Fair/Boho/Bruja vibe? Next: kids discovering the truth about Santa Claus, lazy parenting, and the pressures of creating a perfect childhood for your kids. Then Jen tells Gina a story she's never heard before about ruining an important surprise for a friend. Keeping a surprise is so much pressure! P.S. who gets married in a hot air balloon?
Interview: We talk to Shayna Ferm of The Pump and Dump show, Band of Mothers podcast, and Parentally Incorrect fame about getting into theatre school, audition competition power moves, Boy Gets Girl at the Goodman, Early Edition, Our Town, regrets about learning how to act as a teenager, musical theatre, Carnegie Mellon ballet auditions, Peter Pan, musicals at The Theatre School (wherein Gina erroneously states that TTS did musicals every year - it was actually every other year) The Grapes of Wrath, Michael Maggio, the importance of having a champion, sketch comedy at Invite Them Up, creating your own artistic opportunities, and the magic of The Theatre School relationships. 

Intro: We should all be paying more for food.
Let Me Run This By You: Who would you be if you were ONLY nature with no nurture. Also, Jack White, Fran Lebowitz, and introducing the flexapology.
Interview: We talk to Jonas Abry! Getting cut, Tisch, being a child actor, voiceovers, Joe Lieberman,  Mother Night, figuring out your identity with fedoras and pipes, Westchester Broadway Theatre, playing the Scarecrow, playing Peter Pan, being a blond-haired blue-eyed King of Siam, playing Michael Banks, Costal Disturbances with Annette Benning, Running on Empty, Slaves of New York, Dorcas Johnson, Police Story, Journey of the Fifth Horse, Meisner Studio, Stella Adler, pivoting to teaching, the performance energy of teaching 9th grade, being Mr. Abry, teacher and Jonas Abry, dad. Also, actor schmactors, Sidney Lumet, being treated like a little brother by River Phoenix, Christine Lahti, Judd Hirsch, Martha Plimpton, rent parties, Apartment 3, smoking cigarettes, and clashing with the Scene Study teacher. Jonas closes by talking about being happy with his choices, leaving acting behind, and embracing family life. 

Intro: Is Mercury in retrograde?, thought ideation,
Let Me Run This By You: holding the hope for someone else when you're not feeling it yourself
Interview: Centenary university, Cedar Point, dyslexia, Ed Graczyk, stage combat, John Jenkins, B.K.S. Iyengar yoga, Burn This, movement to music, therapy, improvisation, Sean Gunn, Lee Kirk, Johnna Adams, No End of Blame, Paul Holmquist, Ben Nye, Tisch, Hot l Baltimore, Sharon Gopfert, the Lyric Opera of Chicago, Les Liaisons Dangereuses at Shattered Globe theatre, demons, Susan Bennett, Agamemnon at European Repertory Theatre, Leonard Roberts, vanity, the Wolf Pack Production Company, Zach Helm, Bridget Quebodeaux, Jimmy McDermott, Rob Hess, Hunting Cockroaches, Paul Tei, cancer.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (31s):
Dumb ass. I'm sitting here for 10 minutes. I could have done all of this already. Hi friends. How are you?

1 (39s):
Oh, I don't know. Like I feel today, like just, I'm not feeling it, like, today's like, like shit keeps going wrong this morning. Like the dog woke up too early. Like, what are you doing up at three 15? Nobody likes that. Like go back to bed. So, and then I just, you know, it's interesting. I've seen a lot of people online lately talking about, and one of them was a scientist talking about how mercury in retrograde is not a thing it's like not a real thing and people blame it, but okay, fine. That's fine. But also we need something to blame Stefan. So I feel like blaming more Korea planet in retrograde is the least harmful thing we could do.

1 (1m 25s):
Absolutely. Like, fuck the planet. Like I'm going to blooper Korean record. Right. So anyway, I just really feel like if there is such a thing as we're curing Richard raid, I was feeling it this morning. Just like, like shit is not going, like my husband and I were not communicating right this morning. And like, I just over stupid stuff about him getting a burrito, breakfast burrito, like it doesn't matter. The point is like, I'm not, I just one of those days where I was like, okay, I gotta make sure, like before I came and talked to you, I was like, let me blow this candle out in the other room because it's one of those mornings where like I could see, I'm not going to set myself up for more, for more failure.

1 (2m 5s):
So that's how I feel. I feel like a little bit tired and, and PMSC, but I'm okay. I'm here. That's good.

2 (2m 15s):
That is a gift of being older. That when you can recognize you've just done it enough to be like, Hmm. When I start doing this, then it doesn't go too great for me. So I better do this other thing.

1 (2m 30s):
Right. It goes really badly if I, right. If I blame people instead of mercury in retrograde. And if I don't, don't make things easier on myself. So like today I have remind me, I just have to get off our call at night at eight fifty five, if that's okay. Can we end there not this one, but the next one, anyway, I have a thought, a thought ideation group. I told you how I do do I, did I tell you how to do these thought ideation groups? No, I've never heard of this whatsoever. Well, okay. So there's a company that hires creative thinkers to sort of join these, like those, you know, how you get tagged to do those marketing things and you get paid like, you know, like a focus group, right?

1 (3m 19s):
So we're like moles on the inside of the focus group that are hired to basically make the conversation more lively. Yeah. Wow. So, so, so it's me and a bunch of like, so, okay. It's a, it's a company in Chicago and my friend was like, you know, the, money's not, it's not steady, but it's good money when you do it, would you be interested in doing this thing called thought ideation? I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, but okay. So it was a company that, that they put together groups of creatives and then charge companies a lot of money to bring us in.

1 (4m 5s):
And we make some of the money to get their market research going on a certain product or item. And so a lot of times when you have those focus groups, like nobody talks, there's no, you know, average Joe and Betty Schmoe are there for the money. Of course they're not there. You know, th th th their jam is not thinking like that's not anyway. So they hire us to sort of go in and be the, and sometimes it's only create like ideators or whatever we're called. And sometimes we're mixed with the general consumer. And I don't know what that one is, what what's happening today, but you can't be like, oh, I'm special.

1 (4m 46s):
You know what I mean? So you have to sort of blend in, so you can just like performative Performante of performative, but you also have to like, sort of be engaging. It's interesting work. It's also right. As I get older, I'm like, oh, I want to be the people running the, the group. Like whenever I ran these groups, I look at the marketing cause it's the marketing department of whatever product. And I'm like, this, this is a cool job. I just missed my calling as one of these market research. Like people that are probably making more than I'm making, but I'm yet I haven't done that. So, so that's what I'm doing at nine, 9:00 AM on zoom. Now they're all on zoom for, you know, a couple hours, you make a couple hundred bucks.

1 (5m 26s):
Okay. What's the product today. It's the some kind of fitness situation talking about fitness equipment. So the questions for the panel is like, would you be likely to use this? Or like, how could you make this product better? It's usually like, how could this be better? Like what speaks to you? They're really into it's fascinating. Cause they're really into like story to like, what kind of story does this, this product tell? Or like, it's interesting. They're really looking at like ways to make things better are things practical and user-friendly and right.

1 (6m 10s):
And like what feelings do these evokes this candle evoke or whatever the thing is. And, and then there's also like these exercises you do sometimes that are just seemingly unrelated, but somehow tie back into products, whatever.

2 (6m 25s):
So you're just behaving as another person on the panel. You're just, you're answering the same questions as everybody else, but you're your liveliness has meant to be infectiou...

Intro: Screen-free Sunday, Planning ahead in projects, the charm of a child asking you for presents.
Let Me Run This By You: Mementos: Marie Kondo it or....be a hoarder? Holding on to stuff or holding on to stuff?
Interview: We talk to Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker about a special moment with F. Murray Abraham, finding friendship in a cutthroat environment, having substance abuse and authority issues, mind-f***ery, the cloistered nature of conservatories, using skills gained at TTS on set, taking an eclectic approach to acting, the tricky dance of teaching an art form, PR Casting, Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie, when William Burroughs discovered a copy of the Fledgling Press, a zine which Dave created.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:08):

I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez.

Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:10):

and I'm Gina Pulice.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:11):

We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:15):

20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:20):

We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:29):

So they concocted this plan to make A shelf in our library, like right above the door frame, that goes all the way around the room. So I am not kidding you. So, so

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:49):

Pictures, pictures, put them on the website. Okay.

Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:53):

Here's the deal though? My son, my, my middle child is so smart. He has never helped us with these type of projects before, because he doesn't really like, he traditionally hasn't really liked working with his hands, but this time he wanted to, it was really his idea. He wanted to do it. And he's such a math brain that he insisted on doing heavy. Pre-planning like he made us model, not a, he's calling it a model. It's not really a model. he's like got a piece of paper. He drew plans for it. He did all kinds of measurements. He used. Yeah, it was great. And he goes, listen, if we don't plan it out like this, then we get halfway through and we run into a snag and then we stop working on it, which is exactly what the oldest one. And I have done on a number of projects, including building a full-sized Playhouse on our back -Yes ma'am yes. Ma'am. I spent thousands of dollars on wood and nails and power tools so that we could have this joint project of building a Playhouse. And we didn't think it through one single bit. We, we found some plans on the internet and we went through and we made it. I got, we got all the way to the roof and the roof is what did us in? We couldn't, we couldn't get up high enough on the thing. We didn't have a high enough ladder and it's not in a great enough position. We couldn't put the roof on it, sat there for a year. And then it was time for the bar mitzvah, which we were having the party at our house. So we had to, and we had to take the whole thing down and we never finished it. So the other one goes, listen, we're I don't want to do that. I don't want to go through all this work and give it up. So he planned it and boy did he plan it with an inch of his life and it's going up and it's looking great. And I will send you pictures

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:44):

That is done. Oh my gosh. Merry Christmas. [inaudible] freaking Christmas. That's fantastic.

Dave Dastmalchian (00:02:51):

I have one other cute little story to tell you.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:55):

I took, well, I told her, um, I told C's, um, hummus story is Sasha and Chrissy and Tilly. Oh. Saw them from afar. Um, we saw them outside. Uh, they're amazing. And they laughed so hard. It was. Yeah. So it's for people that don't know. I mean, we've probably said, I'd probably made you tell it like four times, but you, but my version, this is how I tell it is that, um, your daughter says, mom, what, what kind of stuff do they have to eat in prison? Do they have like bad food? And you're like, yeah, it's probably not that great. She goes like hummus? They cracked up anyway.

Dave Dastmalchian (00:03:37):

She's she's hilarious. So, um, I was sick yesterday and she came home from the bus. Oh, earlier in the day she had -I was taking her to school and this little girl had these really cute boots on these little there's some, some, Ugg, type boots. She's like, Oh, I love those boots. And I S and she had said something to me about it before. And I said, yeah, you know, I looked for those, but I couldn't, I don't see where they are. I, I, you know, I can't, I can't find any of the information for it. So she comes home yesterday. Oh, this is so sweet. She brings me a plate with sliced up bananas, um, something else, and the little container of yogurt that she got in her lunch that she brought home. Cause this is kind of sugary yogurt that I never buy for her Trix yogurt. And she covered it in saran wrap. And she wrote me a note. I get, well, note, and it's a picture of the two of us. And it said, mom, get, well soon. I love you. And you, and it says at the bottom turnover, turnover, the...

Intro: parenting puppies and kids
Let Me Run This By You: Why don't I like The Matrix?
Interview: We talk to Mia McCullough
SEE TRANSCRIPT (unedited)

Intro: Boz celebrates an important milestone, hoping for the best and preparing for the worst, when your therapist doesn't talk, when your therapist falls asleep, approach avoidance.
Main Course: We don't believe in resolutions, Danish serial killers, The Chestnut Man, skiing, Elizabeth Holmes, The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Sante Fe New Mexico, Heder, control issues, Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Cobra Kai, reliably good chuckles.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina poli-sci.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

2 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense

1 (20s):
If at all we survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (35s):
Happy new year. Let's just for a moment for 20, 22. Do we need to

1 (42s):
Please, please? Just like, I mean sort of just like, can we just, I really do sympathize with like, or relate to people or like, don't make any sudden moves. Like, let's just, let's just see how it goes, but, you know, and my mom used to say like, expect the worst hope for the best expect the worst, which is so indicative of why my childhood was probably so confusing. But, but you, you, because really you can't do both. Like I was thinking that we cannot, as humans live in that that's crazy making, so it's sort of like we have to choose and I'm going to choose the hope, but I'm not going to be totally shocked if shit goes wrong.

2 (1m 29s):
Right, right. I mean, I think maybe like an adjustment to that would be, you know, your expectations can strangle you to death. So keep your expectations in check, like yeah. Maybe, you know, hope for the best and, and, and know that, you know, it's just a hope and, and it, and it's not a guarantee. And, you know, so when the shit hits the fan it's, or maybe the better thing is like, everything is as it should be in any given

1 (1m 60s):
The real deal, it's

2 (2m 1s):
The real deal. Which, you know, I I've said that to a few people in my life recently, who've been like, Hmm, no, that's, I'm not doing that. I'm not which I understand. And I relate to it and it's a new concept for me, but that's what I'm trying to do right now is I'm trying to say like, everything is as it should be. And

1 (2m 19s):
I mean, what, what 'cause, if, if, if not, like, I think it's interesting because when I, I remember when I got my master's in counseling psych and I went to this, you know, woo hippy dippy school, and one of the things was, yeah, everything is happening the way it's supposed to be happening. And I remember having this conversation with my sister who was like a real and still sort of is like a social justice warrior type and like, you know, equity type. And she was like, that is not true. Like my students who don't have anything, that's not how it is as it should be. And here's the thing, here's the thing. I don't think. I think that I need help in any way and be of service in the ways I feel I need to be of service.

1 (3m 4s):
And what is happening is fucking happening in the moment.

2 (3m 10s):
You could

1 (3m 11s):
Fucking pretend all you want, but if it's happening, then it's happening. Like that's how I feel. Yeah.

2 (3m 17s):
Yeah. And it actually, in some ways you're better equipped to help things get better when you start from the place that it's happening. I mean, cause even just starting from the place of like, it shouldn't be happening. Yeah. I relate to the impulse, but at the same time, it's a little bit of wasted steps. They're like, you just go right to, okay. Well, it's not really for me to decide if it's good or bad or indifferent, you know, it's, if I can do something about it, I should.

1 (3m 44s):
Yeah. And I feel like, yeah. And I also want to say, and thank you for talking after our interview as well to be, but I wanted to say like a year ago today I was in the hospital. So I feel really. Yeah. So that was just, oh my God, it's bringing up all this stuff about like I was talking in therapy yesterday. I like my therapist. It's interesting. She doesn't say a lot. And at first I'm like, you're not doing enough, but she's the first female older figure in my life who has allowed me the space to sort of just talk and then she does interject, but I am so used to wanting, it's not even so much approval, but someone to step in and, and tell me what to do or like more, just give me their feedback.

1 (4m 42s):
But I think that she's doing at first, I thought, is she like, literally she dumb or like what's happening here. But I think that she's doing it on purpose. Like I think there is a method to her madness or to her, whatever she's doing, because it's allowing me to, she's not giving me any answers. And I really look to that for someone to take charge because my, you know, my parents did it, but like I'm an adult and that's not her job is not to take charge of me as a therapist.

2 (5m 13s):
I will say that it's such a fine line because did I ever tell you about the analyst I had? Who fell asleep?

1 (5m 21s):
Yeah. That's not good.

2 (5m 23s):
I mean,

1 (5m 25s):
That's not good.

2 (5m 26s):
That was fascinating. And it wasn't, no, it wasn't good, but, but okay. Now I'm going to argue against my own point. But even then it was like, okay, he fell asleep, like apropos of like, okay, this is what it is. When are you going to do about it? Because the, what I did about it as I left treatment, instead of saying, what the fuck, man, I'm paying you $250 and you're asleep. Right? Like what's the matter with you? Because, because that could have helped him too. Like we could have all benefited, but I just ran away, which is the thing I have done my whole life. And then I'm really consciously trying to work against. And it's hard. It's hard to approach where you have wanted to avoid.

1 (6m 6s):
Yes. Yes. And I, so she, she's very, she's listening cause we're on zoom and she's like, but she doesn't, it's interesting. She doesn't see that much. And we talked about it and she's like, well, what would you want me to say? And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I'm not even sure that it's, that it's a bad or a negative thing. I'm just noticing. And she said, yeah, you know, you don't have a lot of experience with, with older mother type figures, just letting you have your space. And

2 (6m 37s):
I was like, just letting you be

1 (6m 40s):
Also it's $8 a session. Like my insurance covers a lot of it. So I'm grateful for that. And she's so anyway, but we were, I was probably talking about that in therapy. About a year ago today I was in the hospital and how life-changing, that was for me and how lucky I feel, not so much that it happened, but that the team that I had was so non shaming.

2 (7m 6s):
Yeah. Yeah. And your health has steadily improved and you're in such a better place now, thank God. Congrats to you. I'm grateful that you I'm grateful that you, you know, survived that and that you've persisted and, and really taken on. You've taken on the task of whatever it is you need to do to not be in.

1 (7m 25s):
Yeah. Thank you. Also, is that the sweatshirt I gave you? Yes.
...

Interview: Boz talks to Heather Gilbert about training and working as a lighting designer, the privilege of training in the same place you want to work, Carnegie Mellon, John Bridges, John Culbert, Theatre Communications Group, the NEA, Topdog/Underdog, Stacy Caballero, Keith Parham, analytical geometry, the alchemy of passions that compose lighting design, Trinity University,  Kendra Thulin, David Swayze, Manifest Arts Festival, The Big Funk, Steppenwolf, Suzan Lori Parks, Don Cheadle, Jeffrey Wright, Mos Def, storefront theatre, Buried Child, Everyman, The Libertine, Bar San Miguel, David Cromer, Miracle on 34th Street starring Tracy Letts, The Hypocrites, Sean Graney, The Adding Machine, Our Town, the magic of good artistic partnerships, Sam Rockwell, Sheldon Patinkin, Next to Normal at Writers Theatre, The Band's Visit on Broadway, Come Back Little Sheba at The Huntington,  Michael Halberstam, Adam Rapp's The Sound Inside at Williamstown , Studio 54, Franco Colavecchia, Nan Cibula, Bug by Tracy Letts, not apologizing, being process-oriented vs. product-oriented, Macbeth at the NY Shakespeare Festival, Angela Bassett, Alec Baldwin, Zach Braff, Liev Schreiber, Michael C. Hall, and Carrie Coon.

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 
Speaker 1 (0s): I'm Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous? Okay. Hello. Thank you so much for joining me. My 

Speaker 2 (32s): God. I'm so 

Speaker 1 (33s): Excited about it. So the first thing we always say is, congratulations, Heather Gilbert, you survived theater school. I did. I did. Okay. And you really survived it with, with a flourish. I would say you're kind of fancy and a big deal 

Speaker 2 (52s): Is a lighting designer ever really a big deal 

Speaker 1 (55s): In my view. So we have a lot, the thing that I love about reading about you, and also I know you teach and you're at, but is that there is a, I would say you're a master of your craft based on what I would say that based on what I've read about you and what I know about you and your successes, and also your trajectory during school. And post-school like, if there's a master of a lighting designer, crap, you've you're, you're it. 

So thank you. Yeah. It's amazing to lo to, to read about you. So one of the things and people also post what you can, for me, I can tell when someone is a bad-ass at what they do, because they don't actually have to promote themselves that other people around them will post till they'll say, oh my gosh, congratulations. So that is a sign that you're a bad ass is that other people are like, I'm shouting out your name without you having, you know what I mean? 

Like you don't do a lot of self-promotion, 

Speaker 2 (1m 60s): I'm terrible at it actually, 

Speaker 1 (2m 1s): Which is, which is amazing that you, that you're able to anyway, other people sing your praises, which I think is like really what we all want as artists, you know? So, yeah. So, okay. So why don't you tell me like how you ended up at the theater school, where you're from, like how that went down? 

Speaker 2 (2m 19s): So I I'm from I'm from Michigan. I'm also from Texas. I mostly grew up in Texas. Like the important years were there and I was working after, so I went to the theater school for grad school during this super brief period of time when there was a grad degree in design, I was the first lighting designer. I came in with someone else who only lasted the first quarter. He was like super unhappy. He kind of made me, I kind of glommed on to that. And I was like, oh, are we unhappy? I'll be unhappy. I, this 

Speaker 1 (2m 46s): Complained about everything. 

Speaker 2 (2m 48s): And then he, he left after first quarter and then it was awesome because they gave me all the things that he was supposed to do. But when I came in, I wasn't, I wasn't interested in the program. If I was going to be the very first person without a cohort, a word we did not use in 1994, there was no cohort. No, we just had classmates. Right. And yeah, he, so he, so, but I knew about him ...

Intro: Boz is getting an adorable dog, affairs and the ESPRIT outlet.
Let Me Run This By You: KNOW YOUR WORTH
Interview: We talk to Dawn Vanessa Brown about Syracuse, theatre outcasts, making it in New York City, and finding yourself in St. John.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Beautiful drawers. 

1 

00:00:34

I feel like it's still at the breeders. I forgot to tell you that. So they send us, they send us videos every week. We pick her up on the third. Yes. And you'll see her when you come, but she's pretty cute. So I have a dog. Everybody is, she's pretty cute. The thing is like, I, you know, I do have guilt about going through breeder. I do have guilt, but that's just the truth. I, my rescue dog, Peewee, Horton, bit me in the face. And, and, and, but my nephew and bit the mailman and was sick and it was a horrible experience. 

1 

00:01:14

Like, like I spent and also, you know, whatever money's money, but I spent a thousand dollars training him and it wasn't that it was that he had a tumor in his pancreas that was killing him and he was pissed off. So there you go, 

2 

00:01:28

Dog had cancer. I didn't realize the thing that, that he had cancer. You sends you all the cancer. 

1 

00:01:36

My husband had cancer, my mom the whole bit, the whole bit. How are you? What's going on on the east coast? How are you doing? 

2 

00:01:49

So it's not like in your twenties, it's a wild ride, right? It's like a rollercoaster it's twists and turns and your stomach hurts and you feel like there's elaborated and you felt it. Okay. It's in middle age. It's like a, like, you're just riding one of those trolleys kind of slow. And there are like in San Francisco and there's still Hills. And sometimes it is very beautiful, but a lot of times you're just slowly crawling towards your own death. Oh my God. I don't feel, I don't feel like, well, in terms of my own death, it's just that having to deal with death in my family, you know, just of course, makes me think about death and all, its various iterations that, and we don't know for certain cause autopsy is not finalized, but it does seem like she had a burgeoning medical condition that she did, not that she got maybe diagnosed for, but then didn't fill her prescriptions. 

2 

00:02:50

You know? And honestly like to me, this is how, the way, one of the many ways in which codependency is a killer, like she took care of everybody else. And she, she, there was somebody in her life that had had a stroke and she was taking care of that person and driving him around to make sure he got all of his medications and she didn't do her own. Then she didn't do her own thing. And, and like, it's, it's that, it's the stress of taking care of other people and not taking care of yourself. And it's also this thing that happens too. You know, one of the hallmarks of a traumatized child is that they're like hyper independent, independent to the point that it's not healthy. 

1 

00:03:34

No, that it's, it's super, actually super harmful and super debilitating and isolating. Yes. 

2 

00:03:42

And for a time in your life, especially when you're young, it's such a prized tendency, your parents love it about you. And you know, people are always are marveling. Like it's two things like, oh, you're so mature and you're so independent. And those are things that we both my sister and I were told for me, like I've made a very intentional choice to not, to become less independent, but to ask for help, which is, you know, hard for me to do or to, oh, I should say it's, it's not that I don't know how to ask for help. It's this. I don't know how to ask for it directly. I know how to, like, I know how to inspire other people's help, but not in a way that like me owning up to the fact that I need help. 

2 

00:04:26

And then being like, oh, sure, I'd love to help you. It's like me pretending, like I don't need help. And, and then, you know, basically making it such that the other person has to help me, then I never have to say I need help. So, so I'm trying to take it as a lesson. I'm trying to take it as, you know, like, even if you're not going a hundred miles an hour on the freeway with a motorcycle and no helmet, even if you're not doing drugs, even if you're not whatever, like you can still die from your inability to change. 

1 

00:04:58

Oh, that's very, very, very deep. I hear that loud E that is I believe. I mean, I believe that is what killed my father. I mean, he killed himself, but interpret that. That's what the root thing was. He could not change. And I it's very easy to like, it's I get it. Like, you know what? It changed sucks in a lot of ways. And it's scary as shit to be told. Here's the thing. If you don't do this, you're probably going to die. But doing this means changing your whole life and your whole paradigm and your whole belief system wants to do that. 

2 

00:05:39

Who wants to do that? And also there's this thing, this trope of like, you've changed as it's always something negative instead of. Yeah. Well of course you should definitely always be change. 

1 

00:05:51

Yeah, go ahead. No, no. I was gonna say you ha we it's changed your die. I mean like that and if you want me to die, like that's, it's interesting. Cause I have that no one in my life, because it's a pandemic and I don't see many people are like, oh, you don't eat Jack in the box anymore. And thank God I have a partner that's like, not like that, but I could see where people would be like, oh, come on, just come, come out to, you know, drink or come out to eat with us and you can do it. And I'm like, no, my heart will stop. Absolutely. 

2 

00:06:24

Absolutely. And another very close member of my family recently, you know, went to the doctor and got, you know, like a very young person, got a terrible report about cholesterol and triglycerides and psych, you know, you could be skinny and have high cholesterol. You could be fat and have local. I mean, it's just so, so you, you have to, we'll take care of it. And the 

1 

00:06:52

Thing is it's really, gosh, it's really hard to right. It's hard to say too. I was thinking like, okay, like you go to the doctor and they tell you, or you get any news, whether it's a psychiatrist or anyone saying, listen, this is a serious problem. You have. Okay. And they, and they tell you that it's scary and shocking. And, and I'm a bummer, a huge bummer. And like also pissed off. Like, can you imagine she took care of everybody. Else's stuff her whole life. And now they're like, PS, you've done it all wrong. Now you have to take care of you. 

1 

Intro: outlet malls
Let Me Run This By You: reimagining Ferris Bueller's Day Off
Interview: We talk to Susan Bennett

SEE FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited)

Intro: swiping left on the poor man's John Travolta, wilderness therapy for the 1%, Ashton Kutcher.
Let Me Run This By You: the thing that you're most afraid of is probably not what's gonna getcha.
Interview: We talk to actor Damian Thompson about immigrating from Jamaica, the University of Evansville, the Florida Theatre Conference, stuttering, PAVAC, North Carolina School of the Arts, asking for what you want, how letters of recommendation aren't always what they seem, gatekeeping, theatre school with no acting classes, Pericles, zoom theatre.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez,

2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

2 (15s):
20

3 (16s):
Years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of

1 (20s):
It all. We survive theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet In Chicago or New York? You can just get crazy, but anyway, go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead.

2 (38s):
No, no, no. So now that the poor man's John Travolta has purchased Twitter for $44 billion, will you be deleting your account?

1 (52s):
Yes. I'm getting off only because I, I, I actually, I just, I mean, I think that he is a, he's in many ways a genius. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fault him on that. There's, there's, but I don't trust what's gonna happen. Like I just don't wanna be a part of the great unraveling in that way. I don't know. It'll probably unravel then come back together and unravel before it finally goes in one direction or the other. Yeah. I'm gonna also, let's be honest, I'm gonna probably use this as an excuse to get off because nobody fucking retweets my shit anyway, so I'm just gonna use it as an excuse.

2 (1m 30s):
Yeah, yeah.

1 (1m 31s):
It just not working for me. I'm not Twitter famous. Nobody gives a fuck. So I'm gonna just shut it down and then maybe TikTok will be our new thing. Right?

2 (1m 40s):
There you go. By the way, 44 billion, I was like trying to, you know how humans really can't conceive of big numbers, and so I'm always trying to find these ways of like making it, you know, somewhat understandable. And it turns out this, a lot of people do this and, and I read an article about how, Oh, by the way, I used to, I realized apropo of this, I was relying on Twitter 100% for my news. Like I had stopped, I, I used to start with the New York Times and then go to Twitter, and then I stopped starting with the New York Times. I would, I would only go to it if there was a link to it in Twitter.

2 (2m 20s):
And so today I start, I did the times again. And, you know, there's a lot of bad things going on that I really didn't know about because I hadn't been, you know, I really hadn't been paying attention to the news, but, okay, so he, for ostensibly speaking, you could end world hunger with 6 billion. You could end United States houselessness with 20 billion and this is 44 billion. Now, when they say these things, like you could end it, I always think like, yeah, but really how? Right. That doesn't seem right because

1 (2m 59s):
They're, they're still, well, there's like, Right, And also you need, you need, you need systems put in place. It's not, but what, with the resources, I think it is important to know like that's how much resources financially it would cost, and it then it would take a whole fuck ton of work. But I do think it's interesting to, and also who comes up with these figures, That's hilarious to me. There's some person being like, You could end Jen, Jen Bosworth Ramirez as problems with, you know, $150. You know, like that kind of a thing. But, Well,

2 (3m 27s):
I think, I think in the case of the thing I was reading, it was like organization, non-governmental organizations who, their mission is to end world hunger or their

1 (3m 38s):
Mission. So they do. Yeah. My guess is the New York Times is really checking their shit out. So Yeah, of course. And they're talking to nonprofits that, that this is their mission, so they know these numbers. Okay. That is crazy as fuck. And he spent 44 billion,

2 (3m 53s):
He spent 44 billion. And that's the other thing about it, it is starting to seem like these, you know, mega billionaires are just kind of bored and looking for something novel. I mean, you know, him and Bezos are trying, trying to outspace each other and, and it's just like, there's no, you know, it's, it's the thing of like, there's no, there's nothing left to vanquish, so let's just, you know, come up with new things. And I think, you know, I wonder if any of them would be interested in like, having a perspective change. Like what if they had to live without a house for some period of time? What if they had to, you know, like, is there a way that we could mandate just sort of the experience of not being them?

1 (4m 43s):
What, Okay, what you're, what you're talking about is like a mix of like outward Bound meets tough love and like prisoner for a day, like reality show for billionaires. And I am also wilderness therapy. They need

2 (4m 57s):
Wilderness therapy.

1 (4m 58s):
Yeah. Well, I'm convinced that like, if you trapped me in an elevator with them for an hour, they might have a perspective change. Only because, or anyone, anyone that's not in their circle. It could be any, Well, it couldn't really be anyone. Cause like, can you imagine them getting trapped with like, I don't, I don't know my weird neighbor, that would not be good. But like, someone who is psychologically minded like that actually cares about the universe and stuff. If they were, if we, I always think of this, I don't know why, but like, let's say Osama Bin Laden was still alive and then he got trapped in an elevator with me and neither of us had weapons, right?

1 (5m 38s):
We just have our minds and our mouths and our hearts and all our bodies. Could we come to, could we change, Could anyone change anyone being trapped in the elevator for a couple hours? I don't know. But it would be interesting to find out. So this is along those same lines, like you put Elon Musk in the woods, but they have to have either a therapist or some kind of guide because left to their own devices, they're gonna fucking try to colonize the woods, right? They're gonna be like, ah, we could, you know, So they need a guide. Who would be their guide? Gina?

2 (6m 12s):
I think it should be you, frankly. No, I think the woods

1 (6m 15s):
Like, I'd be like's,

2 (6m 17s):
Maybe not in the woods. By the way, how long do you think it would take Osama Bin Laden to acknowledge your presence since you are

1 (6m 24s):
A woman? Oh, that's great. Together in an elevator. That is a really good, that is a really good question. Would he just pretend I wasn't there? And I would dance around? I mean,

2 (6m 36s):
I kind of think he would just pretend that you weren't there. Like, like

1 (6m 39s):
Well, that would even give more impetus to get in his space. I would be like, Oh, this is a game now. So then I would try to be like, you know what I would do? Cause I'm a people pleaser. I'd be like, I love your hair. Like, I would be like, Tell me how you got your hair to look. So whatever

2 (6m 56s):
Matter. Matter,

1 (6m 57s):
Right? Or like, I think you have great bone structure. Like I would just come up with the most because that's who I am. So it would either or he would just strangle me that that could be, he could just strike me.

2 (7m 11s):
That's possibility too. ...

Intro: The 90s are back and so is Gina on the Adam McKay train, Joe Vs. the Volcano, Dan Hedaya, absurdism, hating the planet, Don't Look Up, #whatdosingleasianwomendoafterwork 
Let Me Run This By You: putting yourself in a new and unfamiliar context, Michael Shannon's Red Orchid theatre, Wallace Shawn's Evening at the Talk House, asshole casting directors, wearing ear pieces, when Boz got a perm, Art and Science Hair Salon.
Interview: We talk to Jenna Ebersberger about growing up in LA, Columbia College, Second City, the Groundlings, Barbara Robertson, Wondery, My Favorite Murder

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Kalichi. We went to theater school

1 (12s):
Together. We survived it.

2 (14s):
He didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (22s):
And you will too. Are we famous yet? I mean, I think the bubble is going to burst a little bit, but I don't think it's going to pop all the way. Like, I don't think it's gonna be over over, but I just think that life is a series of bubbles popping. Right? It's like a series. I see. Everything is so cyclical. And the thing that actually funny enough made me see it truly is watching fashion styles. Right? So like the nineties are really in and I'm like cracking up at coworking and looking around. Cause a lot of my co-working cohort are wearing nineties clothes because they're young and I am just like, oh my God, I, I, it is unbelievable how the things that, and this happens to every generation.

1 (1m 15s):
I mean, we're, I'm not unique. I know this, but like, I'm like, oh, if you want to look at why things are, how things are cyclical, look at the fashion, like, look at what is happening. I make the huge, the mom jeans wide legs.

2 (1m 31s):
Right. But at the same time, how come like the forties haven't come back or the, or maybe they have, maybe they come back in little ways or the twenties I wanna, I want to, or the fifties, even you don't really here. You don't really see, I guess maybe the fifth, late fifties and early sixties had somewhat of a resurgence with mad men. And they did that whole co-branding with J crew. Oh wait, is J crew still a company?

1 (1m 53s):
Yeah, it is. I mean, I think they keep going bankrupt, but then they keep getting saved. So I know it's a company because I shop there at the outlets. So it's still around. I just don't know. They're always, and I think they're all owned by like the gap, right. Or like I had

2 (2m 10s):
UPMC.

1 (2m 12s):
So basically Michael Jackson's estate owns. Yeah.

2 (2m 15s):
Yes. Pretty much. I mean, I wouldn't be, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. Okay. That leads me to this thing. I wanted to give you an update about, which is that I finally finished watching. Don't look up. Oh,

1 (2m 28s):
The MCAT

2 (2m 29s):
I'm back on the Adam McKay train. I thought it was a great movie. I give it a, give it a thumbs up. I completely understand. I've never read specific criticisms of it, but I completely understand that some people don't like it and it had kind of a sensibility to me, it kind of, it absurd a sensibility that a lot of people just don't care for it because it just feels too outside. Like I like a lot of things that get really panned when you know, the flops, like I liked Joe versus the volcano was a total commercial flight. Love

1 (3m 8s):
That movie. I think that movie is fucking brilliant. And I so good. I realized that I get a lot of my language from that movie in terms of, I go, I'm like, oh my God, she's such a flibbertigibbet

2 (3m 19s):
She's such a flibbertigibbet I have a t-shirt that says I'm not arguing that with you. And as a picture of Dan Hidatsa sitting at his desk, I mean that God, I challenge you to find a better piece of solo performance and phone acting than Dan <em></em> in

1 (3m 38s):
Joe versus the

2 (3m 39s):
Brilliant. So good. Yeah. Go ahead. So, so, so don't look up. Yeah. It's well, it's absurd because it is absurd the way that we've completely trashed this planet in such a short period of time and also the way in which we're just, we, we both, we simultaneously know this and just keep doing all the same things that we've always done. Well, yeah. Even people who are climate warriors who are doing the most, I, I feel like it doesn't matter anymore. It's all over.

1 (4m 12s):
Yeah. I mean, I think that I just get this, this feeling that we're too late and maybe, and this is just always what I come down to. And I think it's easier for me because I, in some ways to say this, cause I don't have children, but like maybe this is supposed to be happening since it's happening. Like maybe we did this and then we have to face the consequences. Like we're always so used to being

2 (4m 44s):
Saved or having to face being

1 (4m 46s):
Saved by something or someone like, maybe this is it for us. And look, maybe there's another species that could come and do a better job. Like we, we can't be the only,

2 (5m 1s):
No girl, we cannot be the only ones. And what's funny about the, are you going to watch the movie? Don't look up? I don't want to spoil it for her. So yeah, the whole thing is about, there's a comment coming and the scientists are going to the president and they're trying to figure out how to spin it. And then what they finally come up with this, with this Steve jobs type character that the technology guy played to perfection by mark Rylance comes up with this technological solution to he's going to send these missiles. And they're going to attach themselves to the comment because, because, because the comment actually has this very precious metal that they need to, they need, of course.

2 (5m 41s):
So they it's like this thing where they send these 20 missile, drones, whatever they are that are supposed to attach themselves to the comment and then break it into pieces. It just lands in the ocean and doesn't hurt anybody. But of course it fails. And at the very last minute, Meryl Streep who plays president, her character gets into, she calls. She makes, she calls Leonardo DiCaprio's character and says, listen, we've got these eight pods and they fit four people a piece or something like that. And the idea is if you get in it, you know, it's something that's going to survive Armageddon. So he says, no thanks. And presumably it's just her.

2 (6m 22s):
And maybe this mark Rylance guy, the end of the movie shows 22,000 years later. And those pods land on the planet, I don't know, I guess it's earth, which has been repopulated with dinosaurs and all the pods land and everybody gets out and they they're all they're all girl. Yes. I would never have guessed that. But that's exactly what happened. But before that, what you notice is that everybody who gets out of the pods is all old white people. So that they're gonna, this is the people who are going to repopulate the really planet and then Meryl Streep's characte...

Intro: Imitrex, Ambien, night eating, the job of a Hollywood assistant, studio execs and hazing, performative equity.
Let Me Run This By You: Jen wants to get to the bottom of stage fright.
Interview: We talk to John Jenkins about the San Quentin Drama Workshop, Alexander Technique, Martin Esslin, Krapp's Last Tape in Berlin, Patti Rocks, Oleanna, Harmless by Brett Neveu at Timeline Theatre Company, The Doctor in Spite of Himself, Woyzeck, Waiting for Godot, Six Degrees of Separation, the magic of children's theatre, the diagnostic capacity of evaluating students' development, John tells Gina to "get a clue", demystifying the casting and cut processes, Nan Cibula Jenkins, and David Mamet. Also, we get John's perspective on Showcase and a great story about Kevin O'Connor. Plus, John shares two great Bella stories!
Didn't have time to discuss: Jackie and Me, The Boxcar Children, One, Two, You Know What to Do!, Still Life with Iris,  Jungalbook, The Secret Garden, The Death of Gaia Divine, Lizzie Bright and the Buckminster Boy, Holes, or Video Galaxy. 

Intro: Meet Snoball.
Let Me Run This By You: clothes from Walgreens, coffins from Costco, the infernal unbreathabililty of polyester, shopping at Forever 21 vs Chico's vs Flax vs Eileen Fisher, the promise of the premise with Anthropologie, Mod
Interview: We talk to Eric Slater - talks the life of a struggling actor, Jon Berry and Shake Your Groove Thing, Around the Coyote, (side note: Eric says the first show he did after college was one thing, but it was actually The Big Funk with JABOA Theatre), almost becoming a professional soccer player instead of an actor, Fifth of July, North Carolina, being intimidated by New York City, Lancelot Gobbo's speech from Merchant of Venice, going to drama school in a fugue state, acting as an "unteachable art", whether or not everyone got a warning (Gina was wrong on this - not everyone was warned), Misalliance, Merrily We Roll Along, The Glory of Living, Androcles and the Lion, The Visit, being confrontational, the cut system, counting tiles as an acting exercise, resilience, what he would say to his daughter if she told him she wanted to go to theatre school, and  Fargo.
We didn't get a chance to discuss Bridge to Terabithia or JABOA. Next time!

Intro: looking your best before death,
Let Me Run This By You: On the subject of grit.
Interview: We talk to P.J. Powers

FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Jen Bosworth Ramirez and Gina Pulice. We went to theatre school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? 

1 

00:00:29

We could do both at once. Yeah, exactly. Okay. That's what I need to hold out for. Just when I need a surgery for something that's. Can I just get the guy from plastics in here? Just give me a little, a little, a little lift. So my mom had this condition where she had her eyelids were drooping, you know, and it was like, and so did all my, all her sisters have the same thing. And so she wanted this surgery that was going to do that. You can't see on the podcast, but it's really funny. I looked insane, but the thing was my mom, and this is sad and funny when she was sort of dying of cancer, decided she wanted all these things done. It was so weird. And the doctors were like, like implants. 

1 

00:01:11

She got implants right before she died. Teeth implants. Oh, oh, whoops. Oh my God. Oh my God. That would be insane. That would be fantastic. Actually. I want to be the best looking on that fuckable Corp. Yeah, exactly. No boobs, but she wanted, she wanted, she got teeth. I mean, teeth is something you kind of need, so it's not, but I was like, mom, are you sure the ones in the back you need to be getting because you can't see them and you're going through chemo and this is insane, but she wanted it. So she had like 15 grand worth of teeth put in or 20 grand. And then she died two months later and I was like, can we get a refund two months? 

1 

00:01:51

It was rough. It was rough. But anyway, she wanted to meet St. Peter looking her best. And she wanted that eye surgery done. And they were like, listen, ma'am, you're like literally riddled with cancer. Like I not sure putting you under the knife to get your eyelids is, but she, she was in denial and she didn't want to, of course, who wants to really look at, oh yeah, all this is feudal. Cause I'm going to die soon. So she's like, okay. She was like trying to, she was buying the rebel. She was buying time. I know somebody who had that eyelid surgery done. And then they just look like their eyes are wide open. It's a little startling. It's a little startling. What's happening with your band. 

1 

00:02:32

So they're in Seattle playing some shows and I did not go with them clearly. And they're, they're doing fine. Their new single came out and they are they're okay. And, but meaning I want it to get into like, I'm really into the informational interview, even though I have to drag myself to go and I I'm the one who asked for it. I'm so dumb. But I went and she was, she was lovely. And gave me the ropes of like, this is what managers actually do. So I'm just educating myself because you know, I'm not going to grad school for music management. I'm not going to do that. And she was lovely. She's an amazing person. 

1 

00:03:13

And she's a friend of my cousins and she agreed to meet with me and yeah, nothing. I'm just in, I'm still, I guess all this to say, I'm still in the information gathering stage and I'm just seeing what's out there in the world. Jobs. People do like studs, Terkel. I'm just conducting your own research. Let Me Run This By <inaudible>. I really love, I just read grinning about grit. Oh, you did? What was it? I can't remember. Okay. Well, so my thing about grit is I think it's a glamorous kind of idea more often than not. 

1 

00:04:02

And, and it's kind of part of bootstraps culture and American blah, blah, blah. But I just looked up the definition to remind myself and it means courage and resolve strength of character. I feel like people when they talk about grit often mean, Hm, just muscling through something without, without acknowledging the complexity of it in any way, as opposed to what it really is, which is encourage has a lot to do with it. Oh, I find there's a real lack of courage. 

1 

00:04:45

I agree. I think that the, the epitome of grit to me is when I'm midway or three quarters of the way up the hill when I'm hiking. And I literally have to, while I'm gritting my teeth and I literally have to pull up from the depths of me, I do anything I can to hold on to just say, keep going up the hill because I want to turn around, like, everything in me wants to turn around. And the thing that keeps me going is encouragement from myself and others, like Gisa, my friend, even though I want to strangle her when she's doing it and a deep well of resolve that, I don't know where it comes from. 

1 

00:05:33

Like it is, it is, it is like when people talk about marathon running and they're like, I don't know that something kicks in and I, and I have this, it's this courage to just keep going. It is grit is excruciating. It is not like, you know, oh, just give it a try. It is like, it sounds, and I've obviously never, I mean, I've never given birth. So, but like that is to me when it sounds like when you're three quarters of the way pushing a baby out and you just want to die, but you, but you keep going because you have, that's where grit to me that's comes into play. You know, it's a more physiological thing that I think people realize, yes, I agree with you. 

1 

00:06:16

And also I think it is not so much taught, like explicitly taught behavior as it is people pick it up when other people are modeling it for them. Mostly I was talking to somebody recently who said, you know, I'm just not a soldier. Like this is one of my problems in life is I'm not, I'm not a soldier. And I thought about it and I thought, okay, well I am a soldier. I mean, I will just, I will keep going on, which is not. And it's not always great. No, but it just, that is, it doesn't occur to me a lot of the time to not do something. And I don't really question in the way that I feel like my kids, for example, question, why do I have to do that? 

1 

00:06:58

Or, you know, I'm back just as a side note, I recently started saying like, you know what, I don't have to give you a reason because I've gotten stuck in this thing of like rationalizing every decision because they, they I've shaped that behavior. And then they say, why, why, why do I have to do that? So if you're, if people in your life don't model grit for you, they don't model sticking things through to the end, having a career, adopting a courageous attitude and then strength of character. I don't know. I D I don't see a ton of it. I feel like represented just in our culture. And, but, or when it is, it's talked about in this like American military, it's a real sort of white dude, John Wayne kind of strengthened character. 

1 

00:07:52

Yes. A hundred percent. That's what it is. It's the John Wayne. It's the, it's the clinics. What thing? And sure. I ...

Intro: smush-faced dogs, sleep procrastination, Meyers-Briggs, Eneagram, Amazon, Oujia board conspiracies, the mystery of parenting.
Let Me Run This By You: Boz gets rained out of Disney and entered the Land of Forgotten Teslas.
Interview: We talk to playwright and professor Kristoffer Diaz about NYU, Gallatin, Tisch, John Leguizamo, growing up Nuyorican, being addicted to theatre, ambition, and the future of American Theatre.

Intro: bad news for Virgos, Are You My Mother?, when Forever Love goes too far
Let Me Run This By You: Influencer culture, Mr. Beast, 
Interview: We talk to Kevin Fox about his podcast, Studs Terkel, and Edinburgh Fringe.
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 0 (0s): And Jenn Bosworth Remi this and I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theatre school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand at 20 years later, we're digging deep re talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? And might be on board we might see. Might be and where it, yeah. Speaker 1 (35s): So Speaker 2 (36s): Anyway, I'm ha I, it was, it's a rough day for, I, I learned something very unsettling, which is that 30% of the most, the world's most notorious serial killers or Virgos, Speaker 1 (57s): You know, I kinda knew that because they always have these Facebook posts about what serial killers are. They're Virgos. Well, that's because they're perfectionist. Speaker 2 (1m 6s): Well, I'll say this I, on the one hand, I'm going to say, I'm doing great. Speaker 1 (1m 13s): That's you're not. And in Speaker 2 (1m 16s): Fact, I haven't even killed one person, much less multiple. And you know, like I was trying to bring myself to like, what is it? And I think maybe perfectionism, but really what I think it is. I sometimes just have this feeling of like, I can't access my empathy. Sometimes Speaker 1 (1m 39s): I actually have a similar thing. Speaker 2 (1m 41s): Okay. Sometimes I'm just like, this is objectively terrible with this, you know? And I feel nothing. I feel like I don't care at all. It's not co or maybe that that's always there, but I tend to my, I don't really know what, what, and I don't exactly know the mechanism of it. I just know that in my worst moments, I, I find it difficult to access my empathy. Speaker 1 (2m 10s): So I, I hear that. And, you know, in my worst moments, I take pleasure and other people's pain. And so it's a similar thing, but it's not a blank thing. It's more of a, it's more of an active aggression thing. So that's interesting. And people are gonna be listening and be like, you both need real help be locked up. But not that like, yeah, it's weird. I, I can, I can, I can totally relate to feeling like I should have empathy and I just can't and accesses, but here are the thing. Here's the thing too. I think if you have a childhood right. That where you are, I, or whoever is not allowed, doesn't get a lot of empathy then why are, how are we expected to learn, to be super empathetic to other people's shit? Like, it just doesn't make any sense. And we've tried, we've done a lot of work on ourselves to create that sort of, to, to work that muscle. But it's, it's hard. Also people are fucking annoying. Speaker 2 (3m 28s): Well, and I, there's another part of it too, which is that my instinct or my intuition about dishonesty is so way probably too finely tuned. So even if somebody is expressing a real pain, but they're amping it up for whatever reason, I, I feel that I immediately just can feel that. And therefore, I just don't have the like ch and my husband and, and two of my kids are such intense empaths. They're just constantly like, oh, this is terrible. And that, and they feel, but it's wonderful when they do it for each other, you know, they're really validating of each other's pain. Whereas me and the other one, who's kind of like me are sort of like, yeah. I mean, whatever you fell, you fell down big, like get up, which is a combination of, you know, how I was raised and just sort of fits with my temperament too. And my dad was a Virgo. Oh, Speaker 1 (4m 37s): That's right. Yeah. It's interesting to think about Dennis and Virgo. Speaker 2 (4m 41s): Yeah. Your blog Speaker 1 (4m 43s): Was so great beans. Oh, thank you. Everybody. Look at the blog. It's so good. It's so good. And it's, so your writing is, it's just getting it. I can see like leaps and bounds of like how much it's progressed and just how detailed it's really like detailed. Like, Speaker 2 (5m 6s): That's the thing. I like the most about things I write in things I read is that level of specificity specificity. Speaker 1 (5m 13s): That's it? Totes specificity. Yep. So, Speaker 2 (5m 17s): Anyway, what's going on with you? Well, Speaker 1 (5m 20s): So, you know, I'm, I'm reading about artists management, not just for my fantasy about my neighbor's, but, but more yes. And us as a, as a, because who knows what them, I mean, you know, God bless them. They're their kids. I'm not gonna, but I did get this book and it is teaching me, it's called, you know, it's literally called artists management for the music business, but it applies to any business. And it's just taught because it's like that quote, I think it speaks to me because it's like, I'm sick of waiting for someone else to manage me as a writer or to manage us as a writing duo and trying to hit people up. And so it's wait a second. Wait a second. I think it's comes from a place of trying to take back ownership as well of like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can manage myself. I can manage us as a duo. Like let me learn. There's some tricks and tips and things about business in there, but it's important. I think to take owner, I think this is for me a year of like taking ownership of all my shit and all the good stuff and all the wonky stuff and saying, no, man, I can, I can learn on my own. You're not going to help me. Okay. Well, I'm going to help myself. So that's what I'm doing. Speaker 2 (6m 32s): And as I've continued watching, keeping up with the Kardashians, I can say you, you and Chris Jenner have something in common and it's this perfect blend of being so, so, so connected and, and empathic and kind of, and savvy just really savvy and sort of shrewd. Right? So, Speaker 1 (6m 53s): So that's good as a manager. Well, I want to manage, thank you. I really, I really appreciate it. And I also hope that it, that it calms down the part of me that feels I need someone else to come in and save or fix me or help me in a way. And look, we all need help, but there is a there, and I had this as an actor at the theater school. It was like, if someone just discovered me, if someone just took me under their wing and made and championed me in a way. But when I say championed, the sort of underdeveloped part of me means be my mother. I mean, like, let's be honest. Like that's what I'm really talking about when it gets to that intense needy, grabby kind of feeling. That's what I'm looking for. And my mother never was able to do that. And she's dead now. And it's never good if your mom's your manager anyway, as an adult. So like, let's put that to right. But that's when it comes from. Speaker 2 (7m 50s): And since to me, just once and yeah, every, I mean that, that's the single hardest thing about having parents who aren't that mature is like, this need that you, what you have as a child is a real, very important need to be taken care of. You just never get t...

Intro: major life realizations, writing personally, people think you are what you tell them you are
Let Me Run This By You: FOMO
Interview: We talk to Bridget Quebodeaux about Feldenkrais, Cal Arts, anxiety, DEFT, the unique mental health challenges of people who choose a conservatory education, unresolved trauma, trying to figure out who you are through acting, avant garde theatre, John Sarno's work, using her own experiences in theatre school as a tool for doing the therapeutic work she does now.

Interview: We talk to Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker about a special moment with F. Murray Abraham, finding friendship in a cutthroat environment, having substance abuse and authority issues, mind-f***ery, the cloistered nature of conservatories, using skills gained at TTS on set, taking an eclectic approach to acting, the tricky dance of teaching an art form, PR Casting, Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie, when William Burroughs discovered a copy of the Fledgling Press, a zine which Dave created.

FULL TRANSCRIPT: (unedited):

1 (10s):
And I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school

2 (12s):
Together. We survived it.

1 (14s):
He didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

2 (21s):
I survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

1 (31s):
Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. What's up? How you doing? Please answer that question, even though I can't hear you. I like to imagine everyone checking in, even if it's just mentally, I for 1:00 AM surviving, but I did not want to come back from my vacation. I had a great vacation. I'll be talking all about it in the next episode, but I, I didn't want to come back and, you know, and it's because I went on vacation that we are not airing a brand new episode this week, but instead we were looking back at a previous episode, I'm going to say it's a hidden gem. Not that nobody listened to it, but that I don't know that it totally got the, quite the play that it should have.

1 (1m 19s):
It's a great conversation with two fantastic actors. The second reason is they both have so much going on right now, Dave in particular, you know, he just came off of dune and suicide squad. He's got a bunch of other things in production right now, including things that he's written. I don't know what is public knowledge or whatever. So I'll just leave it out. He's got a lot of stuff going on. And John is in every commercial I read, literally I feel he is in all of the commercials. So he's very busy with his life and his career. And also he was in dope sick, which if you haven't seen it, you really should.

1 (1m 60s):
It, it, it is both an excellent and well-made P piece of television as well as an important piece of television. Those Sackler people, man, fuck those guys. Disgusting. Anyway, they were delightful. We could have talked for two hours. Maybe one day we'll get a chance to do a part two, but I just thought it would be nice to take a look back. I am not including the first part of the episode, the, our usual intro. And let me run this by you because it's pretty old at this point. But if you want to listen to that, the original episode is still up as this.

1 (2m 43s):
Anyway, please enjoy our conversation with David, a small shin and John who can anchor.

3 (2m 49s):
You got to call her up again and ask her to do

1 (2m 53s):
All right. I'm going to make a note of that right now. Anyway. Congratulations, John and Dave, you survived theater school. No, not barely. You guys. I think you both had excellent theater school careers, but I'd like to hear it from you. Yeah.

4 (3m 16s):
I'm so glad that you're our first duo that we've had on today. The fancy friends. And I wanted to know about your experience like together as well as apart, but like my first question for you is did you love each other right away?

5 (3m 32s):
I don't, I don't know John did you?

3 (3m 36s):
Well,

5 (3m 39s):
I've known Gina the longest and by the way, so good to see you. It's only been 20 years like this. I mean, we've, we've messaged and emailed a lot, but Jesus, this is amazing. Oh my God. So I was roommates with Gina and we were very close and then I left school for a year. And so the school moves forward. Jen, you and Gina were in the same grade. You guys all moved forward. And when I came back, it was a whole new group of people to get to know. And John was one of the first people that I knew when I got back. So I felt very out of place and it was hard to come into cause it's such a competitive environment and it's such a intense environment and I was both competitive and intense.

5 (4m 26s):
So to jump into the fire with a whole new group of people, to kind of, it's hard because you're posturing, you're sizing up, but at the same time, you're looking for connection. You're looking for support and it's, it's such a conflict. And John, I'm not going to get emotional today. I swear to God, but it was like one of the first people that extended such a kind generous since he's got that, that, that inimitable, I'm a cuddler sincerity, which is what makes him such a brilliant actor. But he had that like, look me in the eyes in class and like, Hey, he has a little bit of a draw.

5 (5m 6s):
Like I'm really excited. You're here. And I want to get to know you and I hope we get to work together. And then we went and hung out at his apartment soon after that and maybe smoke something. This is recorded, sorry, John. And then we watched star wars stuff together and that was our bond. So that's my version of this story.

3 (5m 26s):
No, God, we, we had a lot of fun. I have old pictures of you and I, and I Aisha and a snuggling ghanaba you snuggling and which I'm going to send you guys, but yeah, we, jeez. I just remember, I remember Dave's it bullions from day one, his like drive in his, in his positive energy. And I think that is the thing that ha that has, that has been such a, such a driving in Dave's career is that he just never stops. It comes down to energy and positivity and he's constantly pumping that into the world.

3 (6m 8s):
And I think Dave has known for many, many years that it, you know, that that kind of stuff comes back to you. And I think I was drawn to that in Dave. Yeah. From the giddy-up

1 (6m 20s):
You also recognize somehow that he needed you to take on that, stare you in the eye and tell him you want to get to know him vibe. Did you know that he felt overwhelmed coming back?

3 (6m 32s):
I D I think from my perspective, the thing that drew Dave and I to one another was a sense that, you know, in the theater school at the time that we were all there was such a, there was, so it was a lot of mind fuckery going on. And there was a lot of, I think a lot of us in the acting track, especially I know this was the case throughout the school wanted positive reinforcement from teachers. And sometimes I think my perspective was that people were manufacturing emotions and things to achieve that positive reinforcement. And Dave just seemed to be Dave to me, which I really, really enjoyed and appreciated.

3 (7m 18s):
And yeah. And so I think that was, that was, it was, it was Dave's his, his sort of genuine vibe that I was

4 (7m 30s):
Both of you when I've run into you. I mean, you know, I don't, I live in California now, but I've seen you like at PR and Dave ag ran into you, one set of Starbucks in Chicago, the genuineness is unbelievable. So I, I think you're both fancy and I'm sort of sorry, star struck. I, but when I, but there is this sort of, both of you have this sort of face to face, like, look you in the eye, I'm going to have an actual conversation with you. And I think that makes you not only great, great actors, but what's more important to me is great human beings. And I, I don't know. I'm just so glad tha...

Intro: licking the ground to lose weight
Let Me Run This By You: spin class, check on your cheery friends, too
*IF YOU OR SOMEONE YOU LOVE IS STRUGGLING WITH ADDICTION, PLEASE CALL 1-800-662-HELP (4357) OR VISIT THE SAMHSA WEBSITE
Interview: We talk to Nik Whitcomb about Nebraska, the Rose Theatre, and working in a truly collaborative fashion.

Intro: Jen gets co-dependent with the Superbowl, Boz as a 7th grade alternate cheerleader, waitlists, Birkin bags, working at 2 donut shops, Gina has had 37 jobs, the top floor bar and restaurant at the San Francisco Hilton, the horrors of being a cocktail waitress, Lord Jones.
Let Me Run This By You: Safe spaces. Gina wonders about the origins of the quote "The arc of history..." and it turns out it was first spoken by Theodore Parker and was paraphrased by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Then Barack Obama quoted MLK.
Interview: We talk to John Bridges, Emeritus Assistant Dean and Director of Admission and Alumni Relations at TTS about the different iterations of TTS, why he got into the line of work he did, DePaul's fiscal conservatism, his experiences sitting in on auditions and showcases, the tribute video he made starring as the James Lipton character in an interview with Dr. Bella Itkin and Ric Murphy, Bella's book, how John learned from being in an environment that valued the individual and the ensemble, and how he started planning his retirement at age 13.

Intro: headshots, turning off my self-view, Emotional Brain Training,
Let Me Run This By You: Is Flakiness always hostile?
Interview: We talk to Season 2 of Severance's Stefano Carannante about going to theatre school in Italy

Intro: It's a loooooooooong con. Boz rocks it on #coverfly
Let Me Run This By You: Are #stans just modern day gladiator fans? Also, Bhutan.
Interview: We talk to Sean Gunn about

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I mean, nothing ever feel, I, sometimes I have the spotlight. I'm wonder if anybody ever 

1 

00:00:32

Feels just really chill. I think there are some people who they wake up and they're just like, yeah, I'm going to do this and this and this. And I'm going to, I just always feel like there's so much clamoring in the back of my brain for attention, you know, I guess it's really just anxiety. I guess that's what it is. I just have a lot of anxiety and I grew up having no idea about that. And I remember saying, you know, kind of early on in my relationship with Aaron like that, I didn't relate to anger and he just laughed and laughed. 

1 

00:01:12

He goes, are you kidding me? You were so anxious. I, it was news to me. I had no idea. And then it's like, oh yeah, that makes that's. That's why I do that. That makes sense. I don't know. Bottom line is I never feel chill, but sometimes I feel less anxious. I feel the same way. Like I don't ever feel, I think I, I think I'd have to be heavily drugged to feel really chill. And then it doesn't last. And also there's something to be said for like, you know, anxiety is a motivator too. So like yeah, all those things are motivators. 

1 

00:01:53

So I feel like my anxiety, it's so interesting when I've been like profoundly depressed. I would say twice, two episodes in my life. I've also been anxious and I'm sort of grateful for the anxiety because it course gets to going. I'm not a depressed person that stays in the bed. I may pay surround and look crazy, but I'm not someone who sleeps for 12 hours a day. And look, I'm not saying I'm, I just feel like my anxiety was a motivator it's course, me too. Like, it was so uncomfortable that I was like, okay, well I have to get help or get out of this house or get, do something different because this is intolerable, you know? 

1 

00:02:35

Yeah. You got to switch it up, but anyway, I'm so eager to hear about you. You made a brave, bold move and you set your amazing Nicholas stage. I don't think I said on this podcast, how much I love your pilot is so good. It's truly, it's so good. And, and what was especially fun for me considering that we are working on writing other things together is that I, I read it for the first time when the, that draft was already done. So I really got to experience it like an audience member the whole time. It was, it was such a page Turner anyway, so you sent it to Nicholas cage. 

1 

00:03:15

So, so, okay. So the, alright, I entered it. Okay. A long time ago, I entered it into this log line contest before it was written spoiler alert. And, and then they've said, we want to see a full script so that if you listen to the podcast, you know, like we may have put on here. Right. That I, anyway, I wrote the thing really short. And then I, I I've been working on subsequent drafts, like over and over with my mentor, Don. All right. So then that same company had a D a, a diversity initiative for women and people of color and all kinds of things to, to enter a script into you get like a free log line, class pitch class. 

1 

00:03:59

And if you win and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I love this company, roadmap, writers love them. I just find everyone I've met with has been amazing. And they're literally, their job is helping writers. And of course they have classes and stuff like that, but they actually seem to really give a shit, which is fantastic. So I entered hold my calls is my pilot into their contest. And by the time this airs it'll be common knowledge. So I got, I got second place. So they, I know, I know I so awesome out of a lot of scripts. And part of that is then I didn't realize any of this. So this is such a news. They start. And then I submitted through cover, fly to them, and then they rank your script. 

1 

00:04:44

I didn't know that. And so my script was in the top 9% out of 50,000 scripts on, on cover fly. Yeah. And I have to say it it's, it's, it's especially amazing because every contest does have, you know, there's so many writers out there who are just dying to, to be noticed. And, and there are so many opportunities for it, but a lot of them don't lead anywhere, but this was like a prestigious thing. And to be in the top 10, 9% is an unbelievable accomplishment. 

1 

00:05:26

Thank you. Thank you. And I feel like, what do I feel like? I feel like all it's a long con that's just what I keep saying. Like, people are like, people ask me too, and I've heard this before of other writers and people in the industry talking about this. People keep asking me that aren't in the industry, what's happening with your writing. And I'm like nothing. And a lot of things. And I, something like, I think in, we've said it on this podcast that I have to stop equating success with a paycheck because you need a paycheck to live. That is, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're not gonna, they don't go hand in hand. Like, it's not like I won prize money for this, but you win a further, like you said, noticing and further exposure and, and like, so that we can move forward in this industry. 

1 

00:06:17

And it, it doesn't always, it doesn't look like a paycheck. I just, yeah. And, and R I'll, I'll just put the caveat that I'm sure that there are lots of professions that this is true about, but I only know about this one. So in, in the artistic field, it's kind of, I mean, what's the norm for us would not be the norm for other fields that we could spend thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars in many years, investing in ourselves. And that's the whole concept of like the overnight success, because nobody's an overnight success. Everybody has already invested a lot of time, energy, money, et cetera into it. 

1 

00:07:00

And it's just that. And you know, and frankly, when people say actors get paid too much, I mean, sometimes I agree with it. And other times I'm like, yeah, but you don't know, you only see their successes. You don't see the 99% of the time that they're failing. I think it comes. That is exactly, exactly right on it. And I think even like influencer culture, look, those people have invested in. I'm not saying it's, if aliens come down and say, see, they're going to, it's going to make sense. What I'm saying is they have invested these, anytime you see someone who is in the public eye, or like doing something, someone who is being noticed for something, unless it's totally random has invested in what they're doing. 

1 

00:07:47

You may not agree with it. And you may not think it's art, but they look, I've never met someone who has found notoriety or gotten notice that hasn't put some am...

Intro: R.I.P. Michael K. Williams
Let Me Run This By You: Loyalty
Interview: We talk to Kelly McAdams
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? So that's the actual truth of the matter. So, but what it is bringing up is like these feelings and you must have, well, I don't know what I'm assuming you have these feelings when you're taking care of another being of like, I, especially a baby who can't talk. Right. I don't know what's wrong with you. There's something wrong with you. 

1 

00:00:50

You're not, something's off. You can't communicate to me because you don't have the language and doors can't communicate to me cause she's a dog. And, but I am responsible for you because you have no other person to guide you, my husband too, but he's like, you know, whatever, he doesn't know what's happening either. And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of like waiting and saying, okay, well, you know what, hopefully this doesn't kill you. You know what I mean? Like we're going to figure it out, but it, it is, it does bring up these, this issue of what to do in between the time. And this is what I experienced with my mom and tests and everything in tests. 

1 

00:01:33

And when you send a script off and you're waiting to hear what, how do I work with myself in the, in between times of not knowing of submitting the thing, whether it's a poop sample or right. Example and hearing the answer. Yeah. Well, so I hear you talking about two to at least two things. One being just the feeling that you get when you're taking care of somebody and there's something wrong. And what that usually raises for people is however, somebody treated them when there was something wrong with them and they were little. And my biggest flaw in that regard is I get scared. 

1 

00:02:14

And then that makes me angry. And I, and I want to be like, I want to invalidate it and say that there's nothing wrong with you or that the worst thing is wrong with you. And it just becomes this thing. And I think for us, it's been a lot that we don't have very much wiggle room in our system here. Like we sort of need everything to be functioning at all times because we don't have much of a safety net in terms of like people to help us or money to help us if there's a big problem. So we both really scared when there's a problem. We get scared of like, if it means somebody, you know, can't go to work or somebody, you know, is going to need a of our resource. 

1 

00:02:59

It just, it kind of triggers that. The other thing about waiting is also very painful. And I feel like there isn't any other way around it, but to say like, here I am waiting and here I am still waiting and are all like, you know, it w whatever will be, will be, and to try to have that sort of like not being attached to the outcome, which is hard. Yeah. And no, and knowing that, you know, for me, it's like, I've done what I w it's like, knowing did I do what I could do? Yes. I did all what we're doing. All that we can do, whether it's for this or that, the other thing. 

1 

00:03:40

And sometimes you, haven't done all you can do, and that makes the weighting worse. Cause you're like, I actually half-assed it. Or I, I fell short on this and we'll see, and then owning that part for me. And then you're right. There is absolutely nothing I can do. I can't, I can't fix this on my own. I am not a vet. And I am not a poop tech. I that's not in my skillset. And so I just have to boil the chicken and boil the right and make the rice and, and feed the dog. And she, her mood is fine. Everything is fine. It's just a shitty problem. It's a problem of shitting. 

1 

00:04:20

And, and I did not anticipate that's one of the things of having a puppy that I did not anticipate was the amount of fecal matter that I come in contact to on a daily basis. Right. And I'm coming in contact with, on a daily basis right now. And I couldn't have known that. And, and that it's so weird, but it does come back to writing in and everything. And that you can't know until, you know, and you, and, and my amazing mentor psychiatrist said to me, marriage, you cannot actually be that ready for marriage and childbearing and child rearing marriage makes you ready for marriage in some ways. And child rearing makes you ready for you. You cannot because I want it to be so prepared, like how to prepare, and you can do some of the work, but like you do, and writing. 

1 

00:05:09

So I talked to this amazing woman on Sunday who invited me to her house in Brentwood. I was like, oh, I'm getting fancy here. And she's a Chicago play Chicago playwright, who is a television writer. Oh, I'm I'm, my internet is funky too. But anyway, okay. So she's a Chicago playwright and I was in a play of hers in 1999. And now she writes big wig television, and she's about to be a show runner. And I just said, let me see if, yeah. And she's, she's always been lovely. And I said, let me see if we could just take a meeting and like, whatever. 

1 

00:05:51

And then she invited me to her house and, and she was just dropping so much wisdom. And I was like, soaking it all in. But she said the same thing, which is, cause I was like, okay, like, let's say, I, I, I get I into a writer's room. Like ho how do you, how do you do it? She goes, you just shit. Like anything else you just show up the first day and you try it out. And I was like, oh, like everything starts somewhere. Yeah. And, and actually everything is just a series of many, many steps. And like, that's the thing to do actually in both of these scenarios is like, okay, so, you know, what, what am I, what can I do right now? 

1 

00:06:34

What can't I do right now? What can I know right now? What can I not know right now? And developing some feeling that you're okay with the not knowing that's, that's the thing that I feel like gets triggered for people who are control freaks is just not knowing is really upsetting. And the pandemic is upsetting. And then not knowing with, you know, whatever you're gonna do with your career is upsetting. It's all. But it's really all unknowns because even something that you really know right now that you really feel too in your heart to be true, it may or may not continue in that vein. Right. Yeah. Right. In two seconds, like it is. 

1 

00:07:16

And I, you know, I was reflecting on the death of Michael K. Williams. You, you must be so sad about Omar. I burst into tears. And then I thought, if this is fucking an addiction, I'm going to cry. And it is, it was a heroin addiction. And I was like, wasn't he famously like in recovery during his, yeah, I think so. I think he, he had it's like, and, and it just, it's just so sad. And so I felt angry and like addiction, you know, it just triggers so much in my feeling about addiction, about suffering from a disease that we just don't understand or care enough to really look at as a, as a, as a national and international healt...

Intro: Even our lungs need a sense of purpose.
Let Me Run This By You: Boz is buying a house!
Interview: We talk to actor and documentary filmmaker Cullen Douglas about AMDA, Florida School of the Arts, Southeastern Theatre Conference, Tyne Daly, character actors, Jason Priestly, Patricia Crotty, Our Town, Lenny Bruce, Dick Van Dyke, investigative journalism, reusing caskets, David Carr,  Deadwood, playing Bilbo Baggins, being pen pals with Andrea McCardle, singing If I Were A Rich Man,  The Pirates of Penzance, Bye Bye Birdie, Robert Sean Leonard,  Billy Flanigan: The Happiest Man on Earth, Shonda Rhimes, Twin Peaks,  Grey's Anatomy ,  Barry, Bill Hader,  documentary filmmaking, The Humanitas Prize,  Private Practice.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (Unedited): 1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ruez.

2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Paci.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

2 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of

1 (20s):
It all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

3 (33s):
TikTok and I started looking at the videos and I was like, Ooh, I don't know about this. I think I need to start wearing wake up. So thank you. You

1 (43s):
Look gorgeous. How are

3 (43s):
You doing?

1 (44s):
Yeah, hi. I'm finally, Many things are happening. Many things are happening. So I finally, even though I'm coughing still little, I finally feel like I am, I like kicked the pneumonia bronchitis situation and little mostly thank you. I, yeah, I, we went away and then to Ventura and I slash Ojai and I really rested and I really, there was one day I worked, but I really mostly rested and I just really was like, okay, I need actual ass downtime. And yeah.

1 (1m 25s):
And then I started to heal and I was also on praise God for antibiotics. And then the thing that really helped me really kick it was I hadn't exercised my lungs in a really long time at all because I was so sick that I just was like, Who wants to like walk or, and, and it was 107 degrees, so it's like, who wants to exercise in that? So my cousin, my sister came in town, I, that's like a big eyebrow raise for, to drop my niece off to college. And we went on a hike to Griffith, but like a sloping hike, not a crazy hike. And I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do it.

1 (2m 5s):
And it actually helped my lungs to like feel like they were contributing to fucking something and me like Forgot I

3 (2m 16s):
Like a sense of purpose. Right,

1 (2m 17s):
Right. And also like to, yeah, to have a job. And they were like, like to be exercised and I was like, Oh, I forgot that. Like the lungs. And, and it's interesting in this whole covid situation, like the lungs need to work too. And I never understood in hospitals, cuz I spent quite a long time in them, why they have those breathing like tube things that you blow the ball and the ball floats up. You have to, I thought that was so dumb until I had bronchitis and pneumonia and I was like, Oh, they have to work. Like they have to be expanded. If you don't use them and work them, they get, it's not good when,

3 (2m 58s):
When my dad, you know, my dad had this really bad car accident when I was like nine years old and yeah, he rolled 40 times and he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, which saved his life because he was in a convertible. But of course the reason he got into the accident was because he was drinking anyway. He broke everything. Like he broke six ribs and he had one of, he had to spend one year lying on an egg crate mattress on the floor one year. And for the rest of his life, every time he sneezed or coughed it hurt his ribs. But he,

1 (3m 34s):
Oh, and he

3 (3m 36s):
Had one of of those things like you're talking about. And as a child I could not get it to the height that I was supposed to go. I shuder to think what it would be like right now. Yes. So you're, that was a good reminder to exercise our lungs. I make sure my breathing capacity is good

1 (3m 54s):
And, and, and even wait and, and it's like, I always literally thought, oh, you exercise to be skinny. That is the only, only reason no other, like, if you had asked me, I'd say, Oh, there's no other reason. What are you talking about? But now I'm like, oh, these parts of us need actual exercising. Literally lie. I just, it blew my mind.

3 (4m 19s):
I was lies

1 (4m 21s):
The lies.

3 (4m 22s):
It's endless. Yes.

1 (4m 27s):
Hey, let me run this by you. Oh, I think we're buying a house. What? This is the craziest Oh my not in, Yeah. Okay. This is what went down. So this is so crazy. Miles' job stuff has evened out in terms of like, there's just so much going on that I can't talk about, but which is makes for terrible radio, but podcasting. But anyway, the point is we're we're a little stable, so we went to Ventura and I was like, I fucking love this town. I love Ventura. It's an hour away. It's a weird like, think lost boys, right? Like Lost Boys. The movie is, is really Santa Cruzi, but like, that's what this town reminded of.

1 (5m 9s):
It's not, so it's Adventurer county, so it's like an hour northwest. It's on the beach. And I was like, I love this town. I I I love it here. There's so many brown folk. It's heavily, heavily you Latina. And it's like, so anyway, I was like, I love it, but I bet I can't afford it like anywhere in California. Well it turns out that Ventura is about 500,000 less on a house than la. So I was like, wait, what? So we saw this darling house that was, that is was small but like beautiful craftsman and you know, I'll just say I'll be totally transparent with $729,000, which is still a shit ton of money.

1 (5m 49s):
But I looked at the same exact property almost in, in, in Pasadena for 1.3 million for two bedroom, one bath. Yeah. Two bedroom, one bath got preapproved. I've never been preapproved for anything in my goddamn light. We got preapproved for a mortgage. I couldn't, Gina, I couldn't. But when we got the preapproval letter, like I literally, speaking of lies, I was like, oka...

Intro: Gina is unwell. The Staircase series and The Staircase dramatization, the impact of having to hide one's sexuality, 
Let Me Run This By You: Boz booked a national commercial! Jodi Sonenberg, Mickie Paskal, Tread documentary.
Interview: We talk to Sumie Takashima about the salvation that some people find in drama, The Hangar Theatre, Tisch, moms, hoarding, Chicago.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice

3 (12s):
The theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand

2 (15s):
It.

4 (16s):
Years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

3 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

1 (34s):
You know, what's going on? Oh, and you're in a new weight. You have a new thing in behind you.

2 (40s):
Yes, I am in my husband's office right now

1 (44s):
At his office away from the house

2 (47s):
I am.

1 (50s):
Oh my God. I bet. Do you want to tell everybody what's happening?

2 (55s):
Everybody's COVID in my house. Do you have

1 (57s):
COVID

2 (58s):
Well, I'm not testing positive for it, but I have symptoms. And when I tell you I didn't sleep one Wayne class night. I mean, like, I didn't, I, this is a level of tired that I haven't felt since I had a newborn baby. I, I, I think I took, I think I took one daytime cough medicine last night. Yeah. Well it said day or night.

1 (1m 24s):
There's usually a different,

2 (1m 26s):
Nobody had said day or night, like, but

1 (1m 31s):
Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense. Okay. Okay. Cause usually when they do that beans, they have

2 (1m 37s):
To keep you a little away.

1 (1m 38s):
They have two sets of pills. Is it, was it syrup or pills?

2 (1m 42s):
It was syrup. It was like a deli, right? Yeah.

1 (1m 47s):
No. They had some kind of crack cocaine in there.

2 (1m 50s):
Real surprise.

1 (1m 51s):
Was it that your family was keeping you up? It was that,

2 (1m 55s):
No, it was that. And I didn't cough, which was great, but I didn't sleep like not at all, but that's okay. Because I watched the staircase, the news,

1 (2m 8s):
Toni Collette. Yes. Yes. I think it's great. And it's way more interesting than the actual story. So I don't know, but like I've seen 40 million documentaries on the staircase and this one is creepier and more compelling than any of the dikes. I mean, she's just so good. And like,

2 (2m 32s):
She is so

1 (2m 33s):
Good. And

2 (2m 35s):
Tell me what you think about the whole story itself. Like where do you fall on the line of whether he was guilty or not?

1 (2m 42s):
You know, here's the thing before I saw this version, I for sure. Thought he was guilty for sure. And now I don't know. I don't know. I am. I am completely. I w I don't know. What do you think?

2 (2m 59s):
Well, it's, it's, it's the most, I don't have a word for it, but it's the most of this thing I'm about to describe it's the most. Oh, I definitely think it was not him. Oh, I definitely think it was him. Oh, I definitely think it was not

1 (3m 15s):
Because

2 (3m 15s):
Every little twist and turn that comes up, it's like really? I think it is. I think the reason it is so vexing and perplexing is because it is a one in one Google Plex chance that the same person would be there for altar. I really don't think he killed her,

1 (3m 41s):
But it's like, yeah, the lady in Europe and all that shit, it's like, wait a minute. He's so fucking unlucky. Or he's like evil. And he just draws evil near him.

2 (3m 54s):
I got to say, I mean, not like I know, but I don't get evil vibes from him. I really don't. I think he's like a nice guy.

1 (4m 2s):
And if you watch interviews of the guy, like, you know, he had some weirdness, but here's the thing. You fucking interview my ass after something like, you're gonna be like, lock her up. She's fucking bonkers. So like, you know what I mean? Like if they interviewed me and after something bad happened, like some God forbid something happened to miles, right. And they're interviewing me and they listened. They go back and listen to our fucking podcast. They're going to be like,

2 (4m 30s):
Oh, this is great. This is exactly. I totally wanted to ask you that we're

1 (4m 34s):
Going to jail. We're going to jail.

2 (4m 37s):
If you, for whatever reason, committed a heinous crime today. And we were watching the docu-series about you. What would be the things that the audience would be going to see? She totally did it. Like, what would be these,

1 (4m 50s):
The, the, the, well, I've just seen, like how I evaded the law with my student loans. And I was like, I have a lawyer, how we talk about how, like, basically you should get away with basically anything you can get away with because we're an end-stage capitalism. They're like, oh, she did it the way I talked shit about like my family. They're probably like, oh yeah, like she was, she had a traumatized childhood. So she's like getting re oh my God. It just never

2 (5m 17s):
Snap. She

1 (5m 18s):
Snapped. She couldn't take it.

2 (5m 21s):
Well, here's what people would say about me. Well, she was never very friendly. She was really pretty cold. Actually had people in my town would be like, I knew it. I knew there was something about her that I just didn't like,

1 (5m 38s):
That's the kind of, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because you have this way of coming off like that, even though it's not, it is not, it is not, I don't see it like that now. But when you talk about it, I'm like, oh yeah, I could kind of see. Yeah. But not really. I don't know.

2 (5m 54s):
It's that old thing of, you know, every, I used to always have the experience that people would say to me when I first met you, I thought you were a real bitch, but now, you know, now

1 (6m 4s):
Got it all. But I think I met you when you were really young.

2 (6m 7s):
We were really young and, and it just takes me a while to, to warm up to people. But anyway, yeah. Check it out. People, if you haven't seen the staircase series, I mean, I watched the documentary too, but the series is,

1 (6m 21s):
It's much more compelling and it's also just like art. It's like the story itself, the documentary is kind of boring. You're like, okay. And then this guy in his Vietnam history. Right. And that weirdness

2 (6m 33s):
Purple heart

1 (6m 34s):
Like that, maybe that, yeah. That's when I was like, oh, he's, nobody's just kind of a weird ego. He is, he's got us low self-esteem. He picks wives that are like, well, the second one, especially the high powered in some way,

2 (6m 49s):
I think too, we underestimate, especially now the impact of having to hide your sexual identity, that it I'll just say people who haven't done terrible things and have had to hide their sexual identity, deserve a purple heart because the aggression and the, and the

1 (7m 12s):
Self-loathing and the frustration and the, and the, it must feel torturous. Just torture us

2 (7m 19s):
Heartbreaks. Whenever I think about like the person, who's just like thi...

Jen and Gina pay a small tribute to a complicated man who had a profound impact on them both.

We talk to Noelle Rath
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand. 

2 

00:00:15

That's 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all 

1 

00:00:21

Theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet? 

2 

00:00:28

Hi, I haven't talked to you 10 years. Been 1000 years. How 

1 

00:00:35

They celebration? I mean, I know there wasn't a big celebration, but 

2 

00:00:39

It, it was great. It was a bit of a weekend though. Friday was great. I, yeah, I had a great day. We went out to dinner. We had a great Italian dinner and it was lovely and I got some nice presence and it was, it was great. And I, and I wrote a blog post about, 

1 

00:01:02

I just read it cause my friend left so good. I'm going to pimp it out today. 

2 

00:01:06

Oh, that's right. Your friend. Who's your friend that's there or was that 

1 

00:01:10

God gone? So that's something I want to run by you is like how to in our middle age to navigate friendships that I don't think she listens to this. So I don't, but that for me are very challenging and that's just the truth. So anyway, continue. Well, we'll talk about that. 

2 

00:01:29

Well, we'll get to that. Yeah. We'll get to that. So on Saturday I got the autopsy from my sister and she is no surprise. She died from alcohol intoxication. We already knew that or alcohol poisoning, but for some reason, my mom and I were both kind of fixated on like what her blood alcohol content was going to be. And I never really looked that much into it. You know, like I know 0.08 is the legal limit for driving, which I think ends up. Meaning like, even if you might even be in trouble, if you have one drink or two drinks 

1 

00:02:08

For most people's weight, but I don't. Right, 

2 

00:02:11

Right. Hers was 0.46. Yes. So I looked up on Wikipedia. Like there's actually a very handy little chart there that breaks down for you all the different levels and like what the impairments are and starting at 0.01. I mean, there's, there's observable differences, at least in terms of like, if you're hooked up to machines, I guess, and they're observing you, they may not be that noticeable to other people. But anyway, there's impairments that begin from drink one. 

2 

00:02:51

And by the time you get to 0.3 is complete blackout. And by the time you get to 0.4 it's onset of coma and respiratory failure, he was at 0.4, six. Yeah. And 0.5 is just death. Like no, no bones about it. If your alcohol is the blood in your alcoholic, if the alcohol in your blood gets to 0.5, you're definitely dead. So it was like surprisingly so upsetting. I don't mean it's surprising that I don't know what, what, I'm not totally sure what it was about that number that had me so rocked. 

2 

00:03:34

But I was talking to my mom and I was saying like, when I used to drink, when I was younger, I mean, I still drank. But like when I used to really drink for, for partying or whatever you wanna call it, if I got up to five drinks, I was definitely throwing up and I never measured my blood alcohol level. But I'm guessing it would have been, I mean, point, I don't know. I'm guessing it would have been up there. I don't know how you get, how you physically get don't you just start to throw up. And my mom said practice. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. It's tolerance and my blood turn cold when she said that just the chill went up my spine, like, okay. 

2 

00:04:22

So she had to have been drinking a lot for a long time. She did not have she had the beginnings of cirrhosis, but it wasn't even like, yeah, because it took my dad 11 years to die from, from alcoholism and he had hepatitis. So it was like, it wasn't making a sense to me. It must be. I, I don't, I really don't know how to understand it. Aaron says th I mean, this is suicide. This is not, not that she was intending. It necessarily all those, she might've been, but he was saying like, you have to he's does this hand gesture, you have to be glug, glug, glug, ING, basically to, to get to that blood alcohol level is not an easy thing to do. 

2 

00:05:12

And so here's what I want to say about it. She was the fifth person of my family to die from alcohol toxicity. And, you know, there was a member of my family that knew she was struggling with it knew she had gone to rehab and she went to rehab. I didn't know any of this. Oh yeah. She went to rehab. Yeah. And th and actually, until I told this family member that we got the, you know, cause of death, that person was telling me that person was not telling me that she was in rehab. That person was telling me that she went away for work. 

2 

00:05:55

Like she's dead. What's, what's the secret that you're hiding. And this person also hid in her bedroom was a book, the big book of alcoholics anonymous. And this person put, hid that. And, and, and the way they were saying it was like, and of course, should I put that away because that's nobody's business. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? First of all, I hope to God that her kids know that this is what she died from. 

1 

00:06:29

Not 

2 

00:06:30

One should know, 

1 

00:06:32

Oh one should know for so many reasons, if nothing else that, oh, this runs in our family and I should be really careful. 

2 

00:06:41

Exactly. 

1 

00:06:42

They don't. They might not know. I bet they don't know. 

2 

00:06:45

So this is the way that denial kills us, because we don't want to talk about what's really going on. And so, so, so that when somebody is suffering to the point that they want to drink that much, they assume that they're the only person who's suffering like that. They assume that there's no help. They assume that there's no hope for them. Which really, I mean, talking about this stuff only, ever in genders, hope in people, you know what I mean? Because you can't tame it until you name it. It's not the expression. Yeah. So like, how the fuck is anybody supposed to tame, you know, these sicknesses, these, unless they know what they are. 

1 

00:07:25

It's really, it's really unlike devastating to find out that like, you know, someone that you love. And even if you're, you know, whatever you're strange from them, it doesn't matter. It was suffering. That's the part I think right. Was suffering and felt alone. I mean, I think that's th...

Intro: modern hearing aids are wild, it's always helpful to rate, review, and subscribe.
Let Me Run This By You: Family Court
Interview: We talk to Gary Mills about: Pinnacle Performance Company, Fargo, Trollwood Performing Arts School, drama teachers, Death of a Salesman, Don Ilko, The Mouse That Roared, The King And I, Come Blow Your Horn, Lee Kirk, Ric Murphy, Neil Simon, Last of the Red Hot Lovers, Man And Superman, Sam Shepard, Curse of the Starving Class, John C Reilly, American Buffalo, Pump Up The Volume, Dave Koechner, Brian Dennehy, Dog Boys, Atlantic Theater Company, David Byrne, Vince Vaughn, Jim Ostholthoff, The Spotlight Exercise, A Lie of the Mind, Paul Oakley Stovall, the Queen of England.

Intro: The challenge of finishing things, Gina is finally facing herself, 20/20, Con Doctor Paolo Macchiarini WHOM JEN CALLS Pablo Macaroni, The Con Queen, sociopaths.
Let Me Run This By You: How you you cultivate and sustain your self confidence? Acceptance is the answer in so many cases. Seeing people in power as human and vulnerable when they accidentally drink sake and are also recovering alcoholics.
Interview: We talk to Jen Dede about being a shy kid, being an empath, and being on the Forensics team. Also, getting type cast, being a character actor, Warner Laughlin Studios, stepping into your own power.

Intro: Should we take offense that it's Women's History month? (history has not exactly honored women.) Gina had a rough re-entry from vacation, the Disney enchantment, the expense of having kids, the pleasures of one on one time, Junipero Serra was also a monster, Whitey Bulger, networking.
Let Me Run This By You: Is Drag Race sexist?, Sasha Velour, 
Interview: We talk to Rebecca Spence about Hendrix College, Phantom of the Opera with Linda Eder, Ricky Schroeder and Silver Spoons, Erin Gray, taking the Christmas pageant quite seriously, Syler Thomas, being the preacher's daughter, playing Adelaide in Guys and Dolls and the Stage Manager in Our Town, Tisch, Zelda Fichandler, Mary Beth Fisher, Carmen Roman, Deanna Dunagan, Ora Jones, Amy Morton, Steppenwolf, Goodman Theatre, Every Brilliant Thing, Cyrano at Milwaukee Rep, beauty privilege, aging as an actress, Linda Evangelista, how Rebecca sees herself in terms of the cultural shift in American theatre, the accessibility benefit of digital theatre.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school

1 (12s):
Together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

2 (15s):
And it's 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (22s):
And you will too. Are we famous yet? February one, one month behind my friend one month by,

2 (37s):
Well, it's March 1st happy women's history month.

1 (41s):
I didn't even know that's how bad of a woman I am.

2 (45s):
Oh, well I was just thinking like, should we take offense that it's, you know, black history and women's history, like it's all in the past, you know, like why with both of those groups of people, we don't really want to be in the past.

1 (1m 2s):
Oh. And in fact there is a t-shirt that says that people love that. I have the same thought that says the future. Wait, the future of film is female. And I'm like, what about the present of film?

2 (1m 17s):
Right, right. Write

1 (1m 19s):
About like, I don't have a lot of time. I'm 46. Like what are you talking about the future? I mean, I can't be talking about the future. So I, I think the more we can get things in the present, the better off we are,

2 (1m 33s):
The better off we are now you're back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I did not want to come back. I did not leave my vacation. I did not wanna leave 80 degree weather and no responsibilities and fun all day. And it was our, a free entry

1 (1m 53s):
Monday, really? For everybody, just

2 (1m 55s):
You or well, for everybody. But for my part, it was getting in on a very late plane, not getting home till one 30 in the morning. It's two inches of ice on my driveway. So I'm like doing slapstick, trying to get my luggage to my door. My daughter's asleep. Oh my, I took the wrong key. I didn't have the right. I didn't have my house key. I don't know what the key is that I took. And so luckily, I mean, I guess I, nobody knows my address, but luckily we have a door that we often leave unlocked and it was unlocked.

2 (2m 45s):
So we got in and I got my daughter upstairs and I said, just go to sleep. I'll take care of everything. And she was like, yeah, of course, of course. I'm like, I'm not taking care of anything right now. So I remembered that we had some snow melt. I smelled, I go get it. And of course, when I walked into this door, that's usually unlocked. I immediately locked it saying like, we really shouldn't be leaving this open all the time. Oh my God. I know what's coming. I think, keep going, keep going though. And then I get my little ice smell and I go to the back and I closed the door because it's 20 degrees. And I don't want to let all the more mare out. And I happily salt my steps and get the luggage and bring it back up.

2 (3m 30s):
And the door was locked because the door was locked and I still don't have a key. And that my daughter is fast asleep. And not only is she slowly, I've already turned on the white noise machine. So if I ring the doorbell, if I had any chance of her hearing me, which it's pretty scant. And in any case, because she's a heavy sleeper, I've now masked the sound and it's cold, it's cold. And you, I immediately would be like, I have to eat this ice melt. That's not sane. That did not occur to me. Here's what occurred to me. I'm wearing leggings a t-shirt and a thin sweatshirt because I was just in 80 degree weather and sneakers.

2 (4m 12s):
I have no hat. I have no code. I have no gloves. I don't even have a key to the car. That's in the driveway because it's my husband's car. And why would I have a key to that? And we do have a garage code that has been broken for like a year. So I guess I should fix that for next time. I'm in this situation. Yeah. And I just tried ringing the doorbell and I tried yelling her name, you know, from down to like I'm in Romeo and Juliet, just yelling up to her window to the family in Utah. They weren't back. Oh my God.

2 (4m 55s):
I'm like, what the hell am I going to do? Walk to my neighbors at two in the morning and, and do what use, oh, and I didn't mind my phone was inside of, oh my God. Even if I had my phone, what am I going to do? Call my daughter. She doesn't have a cellphone. So I was in a real quandary. I was, I was in a pickle. So here's what I'd come to. I'm going to throw a heavy Boulder through our glass door so that I could get in. And then I'm going to tape it up with cardboard because I must get inside of my house. And then I remembered that another security breach we have is that our window in our dining room that goes directly onto our porch is never locked and very easy to climb through.

2 (5m 43s):
So that's what I did. And I didn't get to sleep until 3:00 AM. And that's just, that was just like, that was just, of course that was my reentry. Like there could have been no other reentry because ending your vacation sucks, sucks,

1 (5m 60s):
Bad. It

2 (6m 0s):
Really sucks. The greatest period of time is like the two weeks before your vacation, when you're getting psyched and then your vacation. And then for me, about two days before it's over, I'm like, oh God, I have to go.

1 (6m 12s):
I, I, I mean, you know, we're, I am really bad at transitions. Like I remember as an actor being told that to like, and I remember thinking ...

Intro: It's a bad idea not to pay your student loans, The Odd Couple, Severance, chicken nugget bowls, 
Let Me Run This By You: Google is bullying Gina. What's your email archive strategy? We are all mostly old because the window of youth is shockingly short. Some of your dreams are NOT out of reach.
Interview: We talk to T.J. Harris about coming to acting later in life, having a background in business, having a close-knit cohort, Title IX investigations, being the victim of racial profiling while at school, the paradox of slightly shy kids being told they were shy so often that they become even more withdrawn, Our Lady of Kibeho, Neighborhood 3: Requisition of Doom, Sean Parris, Chris Anthony.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
3 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

4 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

4 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

1 (34s):
Anyway, so I had to like get him out of the house and like men are slow and I just, it's just, it's a really no win situation. So anyway. Hello. Hello Busy. I've been busy. We've all been busy.

2 (51s):
We have been doing the damn thing. Haven't we?

1 (55s):
Yeah.

2 (56s):
Yeah. I have spent the last, what feels like a week. Yeah. I think it's been a week simply reviewing every single dollar 20, 21, like literally and putting it in a spreadsheet, literally like can donuts, can you

1 (1m 18s):
Keep it because you can write off a lot

2 (1m 20s):
Of new machine. Yeah. That's yeah. That's, that's the point of it is to find everything that, that can be written off, but it's, you know, and I'm hunched and my back and my eyes strain, and it's just like, oh my God, Calgon, take me away.

1 (1m 38s):
Yeah. I mean, I think that taxes are one of those things where if you do them right, and legally it's a lot of work, right? It's like,

2 (1m 47s):
You want to skim and

1 (1m 48s):
Be shady, which I don't recommend, because guess what? The IRS is only job is to get your money. Like, that's their only job. They don't have any other purpose on the planet. So like, if you think that's not their job, you're wrong. But anyway, so if you do it right, like you are, it's a lot of freaking work and it also is painstaking.

2 (2m 12s):
And I, and, and it's painstaking. And I think, you know, to, to, to find a silver lining in it, like, I'm so glad I don't have a full-time job because this is the kind of thing that literally, I don't know how people, when it's, when everybody works, how they do it it's

1 (2m 35s):
Well, you can't. I mean, I think it's, that's why people end up in trouble. Like, that's why people end up trying to skin his scam or not doing them and being like, you know what, I'm going to pass on all this. I'm just going to hope for them. And like, that's what I did with my student loans, because I didn't want to, and that's not even as hard as taxes, but I just like, couldn't cope with the ins and outs of doing the work to defer or like make deals, or like get my payments lower. And thus, I had a sheriff show up at my apartment. Like that is where you're headed. You don't know that story. Oh, all right. So I thought, oh, it'd be really cool to not pay my student loans.

1 (3m 15s):
I mean, I didn't really have the money, but I also didn't realize that my student loans were private student loans. Oh boy. So when they're private, you're in big trouble, because guess what? It's a bank that wants their money. It's not the government who has a million other things to do. Right. So the bank is like, no, we want our money. And I did that. Know that the bank hires the Sheriff's department to serve papers when you are being sued for your private loans. So one day I am N in Rogers park at my thinking, you know, nothing of it. Like I, I owed 50 grand and I to like four different banks. Right. It's always, and they sell them to other people and it's a big scam.

1 (3m 56s):
Right. Okay. Fine. But I'm like going about my business thinking, but feeling bad, but like, feeling like, ah, fuck it. Like, who cares? Well, they care. Wait,

2 (4m 7s):
How long were you not paying them

1 (4m 9s):
For a couple of years? Maybe I just said, forget it in 15, 20, 15. I said, no more. And then in 27, 20 17, I'm literally, I kept getting calls. They started calling miles and I was just the guy just pay no attention. Miles, like pay no attention. And of course he's like so trusting. He was like, okay, I'll pay no attention. I'll compartmentalize. And okay. So one day there's a, our buzzer goes off and I'm like, hello. Cause no one ever. He's like, this is the Sheriff's department. Are you Jennifer Bosworth? And I was like, and then I realized, I really quickly, your mind goes, oh, what have I done wrong?

1 (4m 50s):
Right. And it focuses it on the thing. Cause you know what you've done right. Or what I've done wrong. And I'm like, oh, my here is the PA the Piper or the pied Piper or whoever is coming to collect chickens, home to roost all the things. And I was like, and I just said, I have a lawyer go away. And he goes, no, we just, we just want to give you these papers. Like we have to give you these papers. I'm like, no, I have a lawyer go away. Which is the wrong thing to do.

2 (5m 19s):
What also, what was your logic there? I have a lawyer. Okay.

1 (5m 23s):
There was no logic. I would say it was the opposite of logic is what's going on. So I see that they go away because, and so they're paid by the bank. So they just hire the Sheriff's department to serve people. I did not know that it's like, they, they you're there for hire basically the Sheriff's department. So they go and they serve people and they could not serve me. But then what it did was it was really actually a great kick in the pants because I was like, oh, I have a court date now. So no. So what I did was I said, okay, let me find it. So then I was like, I need a lawyer. So, and then on my 43rd birthday or 42nd, 42nd birthday.

1 (6m 10s):
Yeah. 42nd birthday. I went to the lawyer. I found this lawyer fucking brilliant. I can't remember her name right now. She was like legally blonde. She had these long pink nails and her only job was to get people off student loans and, and either file bankruptcy or figure out a way to talk. The loan people doubt. She was a bad-ass and I went there and I was like crying. And I was like, look. And she was like, oh, $50,000. That's nothing. And I was like, oh, she's like, I got people that I was, you know, 600,000 in medical school loans,

2 (6m 43s):
Medical school, that's

1 (6m 45s):
All. But also she goes, yeah, the private loans they ...

Intro: We're not doing well. What's the hustle for? W
Let Me Run This By You: Is there any such thing as an advocate?
Interview: We talk to Kristin Goodman about horses, One Flea Spare, I Got the Blues, David Dastmalchian, John Hoogenakker, New Mexico, Yellow Boat, performance anxiety, Chicago College of Performing Arts, Michael Maggio, gender differences in conservatory education.

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Kalichi.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later,

2 (16s):
We're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all

1 (21s):
Theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet? That was the big question. How are you? It's good to see your face.

2 (36s):
It's good to see you too. I am. Oh, I'm not, not great,

1 (41s):
But I am like faking it until I make it, but yeah, you can just start out there.

2 (46s):
Yeah. I didn't sleep. I had conflict in my house yesterday. I'm fighting with the freaking IRS again. And

1 (1m 0s):
Like that that's enough right there. Like that could be, you know what I mean?

2 (1m 5s):
The kid got sick in the night, horribly sick. It's just like,

1 (1m 14s):
It's the shit, the shit of life. You know, the shit of life.

2 (1m 18s):
Yeah. What's the for you.

1 (1m 19s):
Well, before I go on, I just want to say there was a, there was a friend that said that she had this visceral reaction to whenever she felt bad, she traced it back to this time at camp where she was in the cold. This is what you're, you're talking. Your check-in reminds me of, she was in her cold outhouse. This is so gross. But she said there's a visceral or like a bath, the camp bathrooms, not an outhouse, but basically the visceral reaction of a cold wet floor seeing here on the floor smelling.

2 (1m 56s):
Yeah, wait, that's what comes up for her when she's like,

1 (1m 60s):
When she has distressed, she remembers this visceral thing of cold, wet floor, disgusting cold wet floor, seeing smelling poop and seeing wet hair on the floor. That's what reminds me like they all go together for her. Yes. She's really in that. And when she's in that moment, I'm not friends with her anymore. But I remember her telling me this and thinking, oh my God, it's so apt. It's like, that is the thing. It's like this combination of things that come together that just make fucking tear, like not good, you know?

2 (2m 32s):
Good. And that I can really envision that floor. I feel like, I know, I feel like that was, I never went to camp, but I feel like,

1 (2m 42s):
Yeah,

2 (2m 43s):
It's not good. It's not good. And you know, like, I guess misery loves company because you know, I, a bunch of people that I talked to yesterday were like, yeah, it's not good.

1 (2m 55s):
It's similar. I have a similar vibe of like, what is it? You know, I'm S I feel, I mean, it's very strong to say purposeless. I mean, that's, I'm looking for, and I started therapy with this new therapist who I at first thought, oh my God, because she's, she's an older lady. And like, she did that thing of like on zoom. We, we meet on zoom and she did a thing where her camera was fucked up. So I only saw half her face. And I had to be like, Hey, pat, you gotta move the camera. Like I thought, oh, we're in for real. But she's Dr. Pat, Dr. Pat is, I won't say her last name on this in case I ever talked shit about her.

1 (3m 35s):
But anyway, she, she, she, she's turning out to be quite okay and eight and it's through my insurance covers it. So it's not, that's great. But you know, my bar was pretty low because my last therapist was an Orthodox Jewish guy who kept wanting me to have children. So she's better than that. But anyway, in therapy, I'm realizing that like, I'm really searching for what is it like, what is it I'm looking for in life? Not how do I make money? Not how do I get where I want to go? But like, what are the qualities in life that I am searching for?

1 (4m 18s):
I've never asked myself that question in my life. Wow. Okay. That's big. Yeah. Like, and, and there's all this shit going on. You know, my friend here, her, mom's got, Alzheimer's, I'm caring, helping care for her and her. Dad's on life support and it's a mess, but all that stuff is true and it's horrific. But I think that's all the stuff of life that's really shitty. But like the internal, when we've talked about this on the podcast, like my internal stuff is more painful usually than the external. Right. I mean, they, they, they really inform each other, but like the informed internal questions of what are the things, what am I looking for? Like if the, what is the hustle for, what is the, where am I going?

1 (5m 1s):
What the fuck, that's where I'm at. And it's super painful to know, to realize that, like, you know, I don't know the answer to that question. What am I looking for? I, I literally don't and my friend, I have a new friend who's also named Jennifer who said, she asked me this question. And she said, Hey, J boss. She calls me J boss, because someone asked her this as a writing exercise. And I'm going to ask our people this on, on Friday. Anyway. When did you feel when and where do you feel most at home?

1 (5m 45s):
And I'm like, oh, I w my first response was the coworking space. She's like, and, but it's because I feel like I belong here. Like there's a place to belong to. So that question got me on this. It got me really feeling like vulnerable. And, but like, I wanted to ask you that question, like, my answer was, holy shit. I have no idea. And then the true, if I told this to, and I told this to therapy last night, the true answer to that is in practical terms.

1 (6m 29s):
The first time I remember feeling at home was when I went to my partial hospitalization day program. Oh,

2 (6m 37s):
Wow. Oh,

1 (6m 38s):
Wow. And it was the feeling of after my dad died, you know, I was such a mess and had good insurance praise God. And I went there and I was ashamed and embarrassed, and I didn't want to be there, but I had no structure in my life because I'd left LA and had nothing, nothing to do. And I went there and I thought it was the first time in my life being sick. I felt like no one was pretending, not one person was pretending we had all reached the end of the line in the pretending the therapist. Like no one was pretending that we weren't where we were.

1 (7m 19s):
It was unbelievably like shocking, but it was also the biggest relief I've ever felt in my life. Well, that's,

2 (7m 28s):
That's the word I was going to say. I was going to say what it sounds like, what you really felt was relief that you were, I mean, because, and it makes sense that you would have spent your entire life up to that point, figuring out what you had to do to survive, which usually involves making other people happy and feeling responsible for other people's happiness. So the minute, you know, nobody was pretending to be happy. And even if they were, you, weren't in charge of whether or not they were happy that that would feel like a relief. And I, I mean, I haven't had that exact experience, but I do know that, and this is so...

Intro: Dinosaurs, collaboration, chickens:roost
Let Me Run This By You: Teal Swan
Interview: We talk to W. Earl Brown about Deadwood, A View From the Bridge, Kentucky, family trauma, Dr. Bella Itkin, Don DePallo, Chris Farley, Wes Craven, David Milch, Gretchen Rennell, Leo Burmester, There's Something About Mary, It's Cold in Them Thar Hills, Hamlet, The Imaginary Invalid, That Championship Season, Amy Pietz, George Czarnecki, transcendence in the theater, Waltz of the Toreadors, Stanislavski, depression, Scream, John C. Reilly.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

2 (15s):
At 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Oh my God. You get my name. Okay. So, okay. So

2 (37s):
Wait, wait, wait, hang on before you, I just want to say about dinosaurs. I have to give a shout out to somebody that I know. I, I, I know a man named Larry Greeley. Who's I'm not sure how old he is, but he's older than me by a lot. And he just decided one day that he was never going to stop keeping pace with technology because he did not want to be behind the times. And so he's one of these elderly people who you don't have to worry like, but do you have email? He stays on top of it. And also he stays on top of how the culture is changing and he, he adapts and that's like, I'm not saying that's easy to do, but it's so necessary.

2 (1m 22s):
And I'm

1 (1m 22s):
Grateful for people

2 (1m 24s):
Who, who don't become dinosaurs, but it go ahead.

1 (1m 27s):
No, that's exactly it. You, you choose and you and I talk about this all the time. Is it raining there?

2 (1m 36s):
No.

1 (1m 36s):
No. Oh, I hear, I hear tapping. Okay.

2 (1m 41s):
Hmm.

1 (1m 42s):
But it actually sounds really nice anyway.

2 (1m 45s):
Oh

1 (1m 45s):
Yeah. I kinda like it

2 (1m 46s):
Actually actually let me turn it off when I'm editing,

1 (1m 51s):
It sounds like the rain, but it's not, and you'll know, so, okay. And that'll know the shit out of you. Okay. So you said it and you know, to podcast listeners sometimes before the, the talking, we have a talk. And so I, we can say all the things in the names, but suffice it to say, we were just talking about how yes we do the work. It is hard work. It's hard when people call you on your shit. And when you, and when, or when I have to realize, oh, I am using terms that are offensive. And I am disconnecting from the people that I am are in my life. That is not okay with me. How do I adapt? It's very fucking hard. I've spent a lot of money and time in therapy, doing it for my own personal growth work about my family.

1 (2m 36s):
I've spent a lot of time with my husband doing it. It's not easy, but here's the thing. Like, I think it's the only way to live and to not feel obsolete and not feel left behind. So I like to say to like, you know, I know it's adapt or die, but for me, it's like collaborate or fucking die

2 (2m 56s):
A men speak on it. And I, I'm always so surprised that like in this field, which I just feel it's so obviously meant to be collaborative. Like I just don't know. What's the big surprise here. Y Y you know, I was saying to my husband, like why as the student, or as a school, go through all of the effort that it takes to go through this to ostensibly be able to snap into an ensemble, to a group, and then lead people to believe that they're alone in having graduated and not having success immediately or deciding, you know, you want to further refine what your idea is of being an artist.

2 (3m 43s):
I mean, there's absolutely, it's, it's, I'll go so far as to say it's unconscionable that the schools, would it set you up for that in such a way that you felt like you were because also PS, it's great PR for you as a school when everybody can say, oh, not only is it a great program, prestigious, whatever, but going there gives you entree into a community that's like robust and happening. And

1 (4m 10s):
Yeah. I mean, I think that what we have here is a re and we talk about this on the podcast, a reckoning, a forced reckoning, where you've got people saying, Hey, if you don't change you're out. But then the other part of that is how do we, or people in power positions or positions where they do sort of can implement change? How do you help people change? That is the, and you and I are therapists, former therapist. So we know the challenges of helping people change and we're fucking equipped.

1 (4m 51s):
And it's hard. So it is so hard because what they feel like is that they're going to die. If they have to change and a part of them will die, but, and it's really scary and nobody likes it. And I, you know, I will tell, and I've told this story before about my mom, you know, sitting with her, she could not access sadness. She could access anger, accessing sadness to her apparently was like admitting horrible things. Right. And that horrible things probably have been done to her and that she had done horrible things. So we're sitting at this restaurant crossroads on Chicago avenue after my dad died. And I just said to her, you look so sad and it no judgment.

1 (5m 34s):
I mean, I was sad. I was crying all the time. I said, you look so sad. I'm so sorry. And she slammed her glass down in front of everybody at the restaurant. And like almost broke. Thank God. It didn't break. She wouldn't hurt herself. And she said, I screamed almost. I think it was like almost a scream. I am not sad. I'm angry. And then walked out of the restaurant. And I thought, holy shit, this woman educated with it. Hip funny in therapy, all the things boats, right. To public, you know, like Democrat, like fucking, I cannot admit that. She said, how do we expect white, old men to admit that they are, that they need to change.

2 (6m 23s):
That, that at that time is over now and run a new time. I so appreciated what Dave does. Small Shan said in the video that you s...

Intro: Emceeing a memorial service
Let Me Run This By You: Fear and the paranormal
Interview: We talk to Tina Parker aka Francesca Liddy about SMU, Blake Hackler, Andre DeShields, Maria Irene Fornes' Mud, Kitchen Dog Theatre, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Robert Altman's Dr. T & the Women, Birdbath play, Perpetual Grace.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez

2 (10s):
This, and I'm Gina Pulice

1 (11s):
We went to theater

3 (12s):
School together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

4 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of

3 (20s):
It all. We survive theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (34s):
So what does mean, What does it mean to mc a memorial?

1 (40s):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to call it. I I people keep it host. I'm not hosting cuz the family's hosting. So what it means is that I'm trusted, I think to not, Well one, I've done this twice, you know, I've lost both my parents. So I like know the drill about how memorials go, but also I think I'm kind of a safe person in that I will step in if someone goes kaka cuckoo at the memorial and I also have some, you know, able like, presenting skills. Yes. Right. And I'm entrusted to like guide the ship if it, and if it goes off kilter, I will say to somebody, Hey, why don't you have a seat?

1 (1m 23s):
This is like, we'll have time for this later if you really wanna get crazy or whatever. But that's, and I think it's just sort of steering, steering the grief ship maybe. I don't know. Yeah, look, I don't know. I like that. It's gonna be

2 (1m 34s):
Interesting, dude, people, Oh, honestly, they should have that for, you know, in other cultures where they have like professional grievers and professional mourners, it, it sounds a little silly, but at the same time it's like, no, this is right. Because no, we don't, we never know how to do it. Unless you've lived in a really communal environment where you, you, you, you know, you attend the rights, the ceremonies or rituals of everybody in your village, then you really don't know until, usually until it's thrust upon you. And then it's like, well, you're supposed to be grieving and then like hosting a memorial service. It's such a weird thing. So this could be another career path for you. You could be a professional, you know, funeral mc, I actually, honestly, I hate, I don't hate it.

2 (2m 21s):
I love it. Well,

1 (2m 22s):
And also could be my thank you, my rap name funeral Mc instead of like young mc funeral mc, but no. Yeah, I, I have no, and it's so interesting when it's not my own family, right? Like these are family friends, but they're not, it's not my mother who died. I don't have the attachment to I people doing and saying certain things. I don't feel triggered. Like being, I grew up a lot in this house that I'm sitting in right now, but it's not my, it was not my house. So I don't have any attachment emotionally like appendages to the items in the house where the girls do.

1 (3m 2s):
So I'm able to be here and, and, and be like, this is, this is, I'm okay here. I don't feel overwhelmed. And I think that is a sign that I'm doing the right thing in terms of helping out in this way if I got here and I was like, Oh my God, it's too much. But I don't feel that. And I also think that like, one of the things that I did with Nancy and Dave over the last couple years is like, they were literally the only adults. Well, I'm an adult, only older adults my parents age who are like, Yes, go to California, you need to get out of here, get away from this. They were the, so I that made me trust them. And then we stayed, we had like weekly phone conversations, just like they would each be on a line.

1 (3m 46s):
It was hilarious. And we would talk for hours like maybe once every two weeks, a couple hours. And it was really like a parenting experience. So I feel very close to them and I, what I'm learning is that like, even if other people have different relationships with people, you can have your own. So I know that no one's perfect, but these were allowed, like, you're allowed Gina to have your own relationship with your mom and with your even dead people than other people have.

2 (4m 17s):
Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. Back to the plane for a minute. In these situations, what do the flight attendants do, if anything?

1 (4m 28s):
Oh, well I always talked to them before because I, so what I say, I always like to, because Dave, who's, who's a hypnotherapist and a psychologist, he said, Listen, you know, he used to be afraid. And he said his thing was talking to the flight attendants before and just saying like, Hey, I have a phobia. I'm a therapist. I'm working through it. Like just to make contact, right. I don't, I didn't say that exactly, but what I said was, Listen, I say, Hi, how are you? We struck up a strike up, a teeny conversation in that moment where I'm going to my seat and I say, Listen, I'm going to Chicago to like mc a memorial for like someone who's like my mom. So if you see me, so if you see me crying like it's normal. And they're like, Oh, thanks for telling me. And they're, they usually don't get freaked out.

1 (5m 11s):
I'm also not like intense about it. They do nothing. And you know what they, I think and, and she said, Thanks for telling me. I really appreciate it. Because I think they'd rather know what the fuck is going on with someone than thinking someone's about to hijack the goddamn plane.

2 (5m 29s):
Exactly. I was thinking that exact same thing. I was thinking like, especially right now, all they know is it's heightened emotion or it's not, you know, like they, they, they have no, they would have no way of differentiating, you know, what's, what's safe and what's dangerous. So I can't believe nobody's ever done this before. But we, another project that we could do is like airplane stories. I mean there is such, this is one of the few points of connection that humanity still has people that is who can afford to you fly a plane anywhere. But this thing of like, it sucks and it's dirty and it's growth and people, people's, you know, hygiene comes into question and if they're sitting next to you and it's uncomfortable and it's not the glamorous thing that it used to be even when we were kids.

2 (6m 21s):
So it's, it's one of those moments unless you have a private plane where you're sort of forced to reckon with like the same thing that everybody else in humanity has to reckon with. But even on a private plane, and I would argue even especially on a private plane, there is the fear of your imminent death. Like the, the, it doesn't matter if you're afraid of flying or not, it crosses your mind.

1 (6m 42s):
Well, yeah. And I, ...

Intro: 
Let Me Run This By You: 12 Strange Questions (TM) version 2.0
Interview: We talk to television star Nick Reynolds about West Virginia, Marshall University, Penn State, MFAs, waiting for 10 years to star on , Search Party, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, being an only child, and almost offending every single cast member of Law and Order SVU, and being a character actor.

Intro: Salad bars, Sizzler, vaccine aftermath, resentful giving,
Let Me Run This By You: Mentorship, boundaries
Interview: We talk to Ryan Kitley about teaching theatre, coming to the work with a beginner's mind, and manifesting going "offer only".

FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Jen Bosworth Ramirez and Gina Pulice. We 

1 

00:00:11

Went to theatre school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand 

2 

00:00:15

It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of 

1 

00:00:20

It all. We survived theater school and you will too, are we famous yet? 

2 

00:00:28

Probably. And very low profit margin on salads, but there used to be so many restaurants where it was that it was just like one enormous salad bar with everything you could possibly want and your sound and like really good little corn muffins. 

0 

00:00:44

You know, you know, I remember in the Midwest it was different because nobody eats salad really in the Midwest. I mean, when I was growing up, we didn't, and then there was a Sizzler salad bar and that mostly had like cheese Bleu, cheese, cheddar, cheese, and bacon and eggs, bacon bits crew times that was your salad and iceberg lettuce and some ice iceberg. If you're lucky and shredded carrots, like that was your salad. And I was just thinking of Sizzler. I actually really liked to Sizzler and go with my grandma and my great aunt and my freaking great aunt, Ruth, my grandma's sister would put popcorn shrimp in a napkin in her purse because it was all you can eat. 

0 

00:01:28

And she would take that shit home in a napkin, not even a Tupperware, not a napkin. She'd wrap all the popcorn shrimp in her bag. Oh my God. Bless her. That's awesome. And how you do it over there? 

2 

00:01:41

Well, I woke up in a fantastic mood. It's a beautiful sunny day. I think really that I, this is going to sound crazy, but I really think after my first vaccine, I think I was tired for one month because then I got my second one last week and I felt bad just for one day. And after that, I feel better than I have and like a month, I don't know what to make of that, but 

0 

00:02:07

I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I think that doesn't shock me. Like, I think you were probably fighting it off some form of the virus for 

2 

00:02:16

A month. Yeah, I think I was. And today's my mom's birthday, so yes, yes. Very cool. I'll I'll call her when we're done here. And yeah, so it was, everyone was coming up roses and then I got an email and, you know, I saw the email come through it and I thought I'm in a good mood. I don't want to read this email because I have a feeling it's going to take me off, but I'm trying to be better about responding to people in a timely fashion, because this is not a strength of mine. I mean, I'm the type of person I either get back to you the second I get your thing or like, it takes me six years. Okay. So I decided to be, I'll feel even better if I feel like I've just handled this. 

2 

00:03:00

And then of course I opened just this like Pandora's box of shit and Twinkies. It was terrible. And you know, that aside here's, here's where I'm at and my life. I'm trying to look at these S I'm, I'm trying to stop looking at these experiences and such a, like a micro fashion and think about like how this person is hurting my feelings or how their wrong and I'm right away. And instead I want to make it like a growing a learning moment, a teaching moment for myself about like what my tendencies are and why am I getting angry and resentful and keeping myself in check about like how I do things, which is good. And I mean, 

0 

00:03:40

That's the only way to stay sane. I think, I think 

2 

00:03:43

The only way to stay, stay. And so, and, and, and, you know, not that I never realized this before, but it's really hitting home. Like if you have clearly defined values and every decision you make is, is guided by that. I mean, not to say it's always so conscious. Mostly it's probably unconscious, but when there's a conflict or something like that, and somebody is questioning something that you did, if you check in with yourself and you say, wait, if I were in that person's shoes, like on the other side of this power dynamic, I think I would be fine with what I'm doing. I still think what I did is fine, but what happens? 

2 

00:04:24

The, the flip side of people pleasing is resentment. Totally because this per hangar support, okay, take one too. And because this person who's giving me a hard time, what they don't know is that I'm, I've poisoned them. And that I, that I anonymously provided financial support to them. Oh, okay. So here's the thing that, that, so that's an example of, of people-pleasing and resentment. I, I, it's not like I loved this person, but I knew that this person needed a little help. 

2 

00:05:09

And I found a way that I could do it anonymously that wasn't gonna be, make them feel ashamed. And so I did it. And, and now when I'm getting a hard time, my impulse is to say, I, after what I did after what I've done for you, and that's the phrase after what I've done for you, the miniature here that coming out of your mouth, no, you're doing something wrong. 

0 

00:05:35

Yes. I was just going to say, this is the epitome of how I, I spent probably most of my time until recently is saying like, I, my version of that is very similar to like I did so good. I tried so hard and you screwed me over. And mind borders goes then into feeling sorry for myself and resentful. But instead of it turns to like, I, this always happens to me. I always try and look what happened. So anyway, continue. So absolutely 

2 

00:06:09

Everything you just said. I totally relate to, those are also things that I have said to myself and it's no good. It poisons the well of my own good vibes. And, and, you know, I've said many times in here, I don't think the answer is to only have good vibes, but I also don't think the only answer is to, you know, be a swishing about like a plastic bag and the wind based on who, how if somebody is accepting or rejecting you at any given moment. So yeah. So I'm guess you do. So I wrote a response this has to do with this organization that I'm a part of. And I wrote a re I wrote, I drafted something that I sent to the other, my cohort, you know, the other leaders and the group to, you know, to get feedback about S w which is good, because I didn't just send it so smart, which is what I wanted to do. 

2 

00:07:06

Yeah. And, and the thing about, yeah, so I showed, this is what, this is all it is. I'm just meditating about my desire. And also it's all very...

Intro: teenage hackers
Let Me Run This By You: setting limits with Kanye
Interview: We talk to Josh Sobel about Cal Arts, Travis Preston, Yale School of Drama, Robert Brustein, Fig and the Wasp, Oberlin College, The O'Neill Theater Center, Michael Cadman, Royal Shakespeare Company, Chicago ensemble theatre, Strawdog Theatre Company, Ianesco's Rhinoceros, Rochester NY, Brighton High School, A Chorus Line, Cabaret, horizontal hierarchies, The Wooster Group, change talk vs. change action, Chris Ackerlind, Light in the Piazza, Paula Vogel's Indecent, Samantha Behr, Haven Chicago, The Den Theater, Rochester Philharmonic, Lorenzo Palomo, Ian Martin, Hal Prince, Dr. Seuss' The Sneetches, John de Lancie, Rochester Academy of Medicine, radiation oncology, The Xylophone West by Alex Lubischer, Isaac Gomez's The Displaced, Center Theatre Group, Jeremy O'Harris' Slave Play, Rashaad Hall, Chris Jones' review of Ms. Blakk for President.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
3 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (32s):
I think, I think my son has fig he's gotten into sort of like the hacking side of things and he always wants to get around all of the restrictions we put on him. Like we have content restrictions, we have time limits. And I think he's just made it his mission. I mean, this is like the theme of his life. He has made it his mission to subvert the paradigm as my husband would say. And it's exhausting because all I can do is try to be like 10 steps behind them and learn like what's a VPN. That's what I, I think what he did. I think he installed a VPN to bypass the internet control that I have.

2 (1m 20s):
Oh

1 (1m 20s):
My God.

2 (1m 22s):
And it somehow how that relates to, I can watch, I couldn't tell you. I can tell you that if I turn off the wifi, I can watch it on my cellular data.

4 (1m 33s):
It's insane.

2 (1m 35s):
Yeah. It's, it's beyond insane. I, and you know, I like, I'm always on this thing where I'm vacillating between letting it go and just trying harder to, you know, impose the limit. I mean, you, I wouldn't, before I had kids, I would not have imagined it was this hard to impose limits on people, you know, because you don't want them to not have what they want. Right.

4 (2m 6s):
Right.

2 (2m 7s):
And, and it's a real battle to like, make myself, give myself and my children limits. It's really hard.

4 (2m 17s):
My God. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I'm stuck on, it's like maybe there was okay. I think I'm like trying to figure out the thing, which is like, I know what I think I know what happened. So you have restrictions on content. Like, and I think a genius, the Kanye trilogy, like completely has all those triggers in it. Like all the things are in it. There's sex, suicide. There's, there's, it's all the things you, I wouldn't want a susceptible teenager to watch. Right. Like just for various reasons, not, not for anything other than triggers. Right. So like my nieces and nephew, the same thing, so, okay.

4 (2m 57s):
So then you set that right? And you're like, no, no, but then the kid or anyone can get a VPN, which then resets, I think the con, but I think you're still on the, you're still, you're still on the content warning site, which is blocking genius. You from watching genius. That is fucking, I mean, it's kind of genius in a way, but it's also so infuriating. It's like, come on, dude. I'm just trying to watch my fucking Kanye west bullshit.

2 (3m 26s):
It's literally just this race of like today I'm on top. And then the next day it's like, oh my God, they, they, they run the show. I'll never forget. There was a scene in the first season of the Sopranos where Tony and Carmel are having a problem with Anthony, or maybe it was with the daughter, a meadow and they're in their bedroom. And he goes, if she finds out, we have no power. We're screwed. And I laughed. It was the time I had watched it after I had teenagers. Yeah. Like that's what it is. We actually have no power. And yet the, the, the con that we're forced to do is pretend like we have all the power.

2 (4m 12s):
It's

4 (4m 13s):
Like

2 (4m 13s):
Covering

4 (4m 14s):
A metaphor also for life about like my mom's friend sent me something that said, you know, I forget it was like her friend had passed away and it's not fair and it's not fair. And I, and it isn't, and that's the thing. Like it, the truth is not fair. Like it sucks. But like, and, and we pretend that things are fair because if we don't, it's absolute chaos. Like if we didn't pretend really that red means stop and green means go, we'd have a real fucking problem. If we all rebelled and said, you know what, fuck you, green means go. And red means stop. And we all sent a mass media thing around.

4 (4m 56s):
There would be chaos. It would be

2 (5m 13s):
The bus. And I guess that's just the headline right there. That's like the headline in the story. Like you took the bus from LA to San Fran, Fran, because gas is so expensive.

4 (5m 22s):
Well, many things. Okay. So driving, it's really a grind on the five coming home, especially it's like, so rough, like, it can be a nine hour instead of five, six hours situation. It's crazy. Cause the five sucks. So, so that was the first like, and then gas. So I wasn't gonna drive cause I did the drive Thanksgiving and it was like, oh God. And then, so I was like, okay, well I'll, I'll just, I I...

Gina made a terrible lasagne. Boz debunks the myth of chicken. Carl Buddig beef bags, Doritos, smoked soup, Colombian food, HOKAs,
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

2 (15s):
And at 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (34s):
Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. It is. I Gina reporting to you live. I mean, it's live to me, but it's not live to you because you most definitely aren't hearing it in the exact moment. I'm saying it, but you get the idea. It's Monday night, I'm here at my house sitting in my room where I always record when I talked to boss and I'm I'm, I'm coming on here to tell you that. Hmm. Do you know that expression inside baseball?

2 (1m 15s):
I don't understand when people say, oh, that's too inside baseball. Because for me, all I care about is the inside of something. I don't even like baseball. I'd love to be inside baseball. You want to show me where they get the dirt off their cleats. Great. You want to show me what kind of savvy they have to use on their cracked hands from rubbing? Oh, that says this is going to sound sexual. I don't mean it that way, but from holding the bat. Yeah. I want to see that you want to, you want to tell me about contract negotiations? I mean, I want to hear that stuff. I want to hear that stuff more than I want to hear about, or, you know, like actually watch baseball anyway.

2 (1m 59s):
I'm, I'm bringing this phrase up because I've never understood why people, don't, what people think it's bad to be inside baseball. And also by way of telling you that today's episode is going to be a little inside baseball. We record every week. We interview people every week. And at the very beginning, we had so many interviews stacked up that it was months between when we would record somebody and when it actually aired. But once all of that stack got aired, now we pretty much go week to week and that's fine, unless, and until we have a cancellation or two, as the case is for us right now, we had two back-to-back cancellations.

2 (2m 52s):
So one time when we had this, I put, I repaired an old episode, which I thought was really a great episode. And I'm really glad I repaired it. And then a couple of times we've aired episodes with just BAAs and I talking with no interview. And the reason I like to put something up is because personally, when I listened to podcasts and people take a week off, I really hate that. I really hate when a podcast I'm really used to listening to, you know, coming out on a certain day and like, that's the day I'm gonna, Ooh, it's Tuesday. I get to whatever, walk my dog and listen to my favorite podcast.

2 (3m 33s):
I hate it when those people take a vacation, but that's what I did. I took a vacation last week and boss was going to record one solo, but her interview canceled. And then the person that we're supposed to speak to tomorrow canceled. So honestly, we're probably gonna have the same problem next week, unless something magical happens. And we're able to interview somebody else before this weekends and who I'm saying all this to say, we do have an episode today. It is not previously aired material. It is boss and I talking, but it is not an interview.

2 (4m 14s):
And if that's not your jam that I get it, you can, you can just skip this one. Maybe this is not, maybe this is not the one for you, but if you're like me and you are inside baseball and you like things that are inside baseball. And by the way, I mean, it's not like it's inside baseball in the sense that we're talking about, you know, like the platform that we're hosting our podcasts, it's not actually really inside baseball. It's just not, it's just not our typical episode. Anyway, I also want to take this opportunity to think we have actually kind of a surprising number of listeners in other countries.

2 (4m 54s):
And I have never done something that I've always wanted to do, which is acknowledge all of these wonderful listeners. And so I'm going to do that right now. First we have New Zealand and I happen to know the person who listens to us from New Zealand or at least one of the people. And he Sean Spratt. And he went to theater school with us. And one day we'll have him on the podcast, but thank you, Sean Spratt for your listenership. Very much appreciated. We have listeners in Spain, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Singapore, Russia. Although not for the last couple of months.

2 (5m 34s):
If you know what I mean. France, Jordan, Nepal, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Israel, Virgin islands, pork bowl, Rico, Mexico, Austria, Sweden, Palestine, the Netherlands, Morocco, South Korea, Japan, Finland. I heard Finland has great coffee. I'd like to go there someday. Bangladesh, Uganda, Slovakia, Poland, Ireland, Indonesia, and BA. Right? Thank you to all of you, whoever you are out there listening to our little podcast. I appreciate you.

2 (6m 15s):
I do. I appreciate you deeply. I am also going to take this opportunity to recognize some fabulous comments that people have left on apple podcasts in the form of reviews. Something. I also greatly appreciate Larkin and Ellis says what a fun show to listen to and to have communion with other theater folks. So many of us survived, thrived or crashed. That's true. Afterschool and hearing tales of everyone's experience brings such humanity to the process. Jen and Gina are delightful and treat each, each guest with such grace, highly recommend. Thank you, Larkin Ellis.

2 (6m 57s):
Next. We have Zoe incredibly warm, funny and fascinating. These hosts get the best out of their guests. If you are involved in any part of the acting business, this will be a fascinating podcast for you. If you went to any theater school, this could be an opportunity for immense healing and processing things you didn't even know needed more attention. I laughed so hard. I cried. It was bad. It was better than cats. Thank you, Sophie. All right, BJP. Oh, that's I know who this is. This is Brian Brian Polak, who has also a great podcast. I mean, he had an episode on ours, but he's the host of the subtext podcast, which is all about playwrights.

2 (7m 38s):
And very interesting. If you haven't listened to it, please do his latest urban. I don't know if it's his actual latest, but one of his most recent ones features Tracy Letts. So that's cool. Anyway, Brian says not only are the interviews always free range and fascinating, but the conversations between Jen and Gina that begin each episode are warm and fun. It's like catching up with old friends every new time. Every time a new episode comes out. Thank you. Brian Love that. Scott says this podcast is such a gift, exclamation point. Anyone who has dabbled in the fine arts can relate to the conversations that the hosts and guests are discussing. I would also go as far as to say, listening to this podcast is like having a free therapist, especially if you are embarking on a career in the performing arts.

2 (8m 25s):
Thank you, Scott. Lovely Scott. Oh, and then here's one I wrote for myself. Yes I did. This is an inside baseball moment. I wrote my own review because I feel at times very desperate to get reviews. So I wrote one for myself. Love the way it is to interrogate the psychological makeup of actors and others who pursue an education at a conservatory. Thank you, Gina....

Intro: Halter monitors, Boz moves back to LA
Let Me Run This By You: Philosophy. Do people who like to talk about philosophy also not like to talk about psychology?
Interview: We talk to Jimmy McDermott!

TRANSCRIPT
Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:00:08):

I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez.

Gina Pulice (00:00:10):

and I'm Gina Pulice.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:00:11):

We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

Gina Pulice (00:00:15):

20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:00:20):

We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

New Speaker (00:00:28):

Went from one to three. So I put it on three. I don't even know it does, but okay. I'll keep it on

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:00:34):

Three. That's good. That's for sure. I'm sorry about all that. It's not your fault. Apparently I have it on three. I don't even know what one, two and three mean weird. I.

New Speaker (00:00:50):

'm good. How are you?

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:00:53):

Um, iron man, uh, what is that? That's a heart monitor that the, my new, um, cardiologist was, wants me to wear for a week to make sure everything's fine. They used to call called a halter. It used to be a whole situation. Now they just give you the stick on thing. And then it's like sending messages to my doctor and you press a button if you feel anything. But I never, I don't feel anything weird. Thank God. So, um, you sleep with it on too, and you can shower it's the technology is crazy. So it used to be this whole halter, like you'd have to wear like a, like a shirt with a, and now it's just a stick of iron man. Stick on. So what a time I love my new cardiologists love her. She's so awesome. It was the best appointment. Like I said, I think I told you so it was like, it just she's so nice. She was not shaming about anything. She was like, this is a lot of genetics and this is also, and you're doing everything in your power right now to take care of your heart. We're going to follow you. I think it was a one-off. Um, but because your father had heart issues, we're going to follow you and we're going to keep you on certain medicines for a little while, but she wasn't hysterical. So like, when I went in there, my, um, my blood pressure is always really high at the doctor's office. It's, you know,

Gina Pulice (00:02:21):

white coat fever,?

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:02:22):

white coat, hypertension, that's white coat hypertension. And so it was like really high. And, and the nurse was like, Oh, you know, and the people that, you know, I told you about how this is a concierge service and you have to pay $600 just to get in. Did I tell you, Oh my God, it's very LA LA. It is the worst. So, so the thing about Los Angeles is it's crazy, but also, um, so my doctor in, in Chicago referred me to this doctor that he went to, he did his residency with Dr. Weinberg. So I call and another doctor. So I call the first doctor at Cedar Sinai. Cause I figured Cedar Cedars-Sinai and I that's fancy go there. They have like a nine month waiting list unless you're having a heart attack. And I was like, no. Then I called Dr. Weinberg's office. They're like, yeah, she is taking new patients. But have you ever heard of we're concierge service? And I'm like, what, what, what are you talking about? They're like, it's a club. So you pay, you know about this, you know about this from just, Oh my gosh. So, and I, I never heard of anything like this through like there's different levels, so you could pay. And I said, what's the lowest level I could pay and still see Dr. Weinberg, who I love. And they're like $600 a year, a year. So it's not like, Oh a year. Not every time. It's not every time. So for $600 a year, you get in and you even just get an appointment with doctor with the doc, one of the doctors at the Pacific heart Institute. And so I was like, fine, fine. I can't be waiting eight months. Fine. Well, let me tell you something. I mean, it's not always true. You pay for what you get and get for what you pay. But sometimes it is like, there was no waiting. There was no, there was no, everyone was so nice. They was like, on time, she was, and she's just hysterical and funny. And like, but yeah, this concierge thing I had never heard about it in my life.

Gina Pulice (00:04:12):

Yeah. It's, it's unfortunate because like, well, what we need is universal healthcare and it's ridiculous that we don't have it, but we don't have it. And so, yeah. So it's just like, anything else, if you have money, you can have great healthcare.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez (00:04:28):

It's so crazy. And it's so gross. And so a lot of my friends that I've told have been like, that's disgusting, dah, dah, dah. And I'm like, listen, you guys, I'm kind of in a hard place here because I need my heart tested. And I also happen to have the $600. So like, I'm going to do it. I'm not going to stand on principle and not get my heart treated because, because our is a racist classes, cesspool, I still need my heart to work. You know?

Gina Pulice (

Intro: Nightmare, revisited.
Let Me Run This By You: Gina's petty bullshit.
Interview: We talk to the co-Artistic Director of Steppenwolf Theatre, Glenn Davis, about the Stratford Festival, King James, You Got Older, The Christians, being a producer with Tarell Alvin McCraney, Anna D. Shapiro, Audrey Francis, Rajiv Joseph, Alana Arenas, coming from a political family, pay equity, DEI, Seagull, Downstate, regret.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Polizzi. We

1 (11s):
Went to theater all together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (16s):
Years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it

1 (20s):
All. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Yeah, because the Handmaid's tale came true since we last talk.

2 (36s):
Oh my God. I was just preparing to say to you my new favorite party question, not that I ever go to parties is what country are you going to move to when they ask you to be a handmade? Because I think the trick is the timing, you know, like there's going to be a point of no return,

1 (52s):
Right? You could

2 (54s):
Go to,

1 (54s):
Yeah, I guess I could, I feel like things might be worse there in some ways, but not eventually. Maybe not like now you're right. It's a timing thing, because right now it might be worse. But in about, within a couple of years, it could be better. So you're right. It's a timing thing. So maybe the idea is to like get passports. Well, the problem is when you get one passport, you have to turn in another, I think, unless you're a secret double agent and doing illegal things, like, I don't know that you can be a duel. Oh, I'm confused. We need, that's what we need a guest on that knows about passports.

2 (1m 32s):
Well, I don't know anything about passports, but I will say I, the reason that I would be allowed to have dual citizenship in Italy is because I can prove, you know, that my ancestors came from there. So I probably the same thing is true for you

1 (1m 50s):
Only

2 (1m 50s):
Have to go back one generation immigrants lady

1 (1m 54s):
Over here.

2 (1m 55s):
Right?

1 (1m 55s):
Right. Yeah. It's interesting. I, yeah, I, there are a lot of, I mean, this whole thing has been this whole overturning Roe vs. Wade has been, it has been horrific. And also because I've come from things from this and as you do too, like the psychological lens is trauma lens. I'm like, okay. The reactions, especially on social media have been wild. So what I'm noticing is it's even more hand Handmaid's tailie in that people then other women aren't then sort of policing other people's responses to this.

1 (2m 37s):
Meaning people are like, well, I don't know why you're shocked. So instead of saying, yes, you can have your reaction. People are mad that women are shocked. Other women are like, well, what did you think was going to happen? We, and I'm like, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is part of the deal. Like let people have their responses, let them, so I am not shocked, but that does not mean that it hurts any less or that it, it is my job to tell someone that their outrage is not justified or not appropriate.

2 (3m 15s):
I mean, that's like, that's like telling a little kid, well, your dad hits you every time he gets drunk. What's why are you so surprised? You know, it's like, well, that doesn't make it hurt any less. That doesn't make me any less fearful. The feeling that I have in my body right now is the feeling that I had on election night in 2016. You know, I don't know if I ever told you my story about that, but just like every other reasonable person in the world, I completely assumed Hillary Clinton would win. And I wore my little pants version of a pantsuit to vote. I came home and I had, I didn't invite anybody over, but I made, I had like snacks, like it was a super bowl. And I put up a big piece of paper like that paper we wrote on when we were doing our, our TV show and with a map and I was gonna, I was marking the electoral votes, teach my kids about the electoral college.

2 (4m 10s):
And it's like, and it's just starts going, okay, well, that's not, that's not too bad. And then, and pretty early on, I realized what was happening. And I became immediately exhausted. And I went up to my bed and I fell asleep. And in the middle of the night, I rolled over to check my phone and I saw the confirmed, the worst had happened. And now I have that feeling again. I have that feeling of like, there's no hope.

1 (4m 40s):
This

2 (4m 40s):
Is, this is all bad.

1 (4m 43s):
I, I, I totally hear you. I, miles is famous for saying that. I knew that Trump was gonna win. And I did not, of course, but what I knew was when I went to the polls, it was the weirdest thing. There was this old, weird white guy, and this was in Evanston still. And this old, weird white guy in Evanston, which is very, very, very democratic. But he was handing out these flyers that were like very pro-Trump and very like Trump is going to win and he should, anyway, I had this sinking feeling. I was like, oh wait, wait, wait, this is Evanston.

1 (5m 24s):
And this guy is like, really sure. And also he seems like kind of a crack pot, but kind of not. And I, there was the first time at the polls where I was like, oh no, oh no, no, no, no, no. I have a bad feeling about this. And then we went to a friend's house, big mistake for an election night situation. And as the returns started coming in, people started at the party getting drunker. And so getting sadder and getting crazier and saying things like, well that this is fine. Like I'll just move to Italy or I'll just move to. But like, it was like the, the, the denial and the alcohol mixing was really, really, really, really depressing.

1 (6m 8s):
And I was like, I got to get out of here. And so we left before it was called, of course. And, and we, and it was, but I did have this sinking feeling when, when that, when the dude at the, it wasn't at the polls, it was like, I had gone to whole foods afterwards. It's right. And this guy was like putting leaflets on everyone's car that was like, basically get ready for Trump. And I was like in a good way. And I was like, oh shit. If this is happening at Evanston, we've got a problem area. So I wasn't shocked either, but I was very dismayed. And the feeling I have now is that like, literally, I feel like, like I kind of have a migraine today and I feel like I've had a migraine since 1975. That's kind of the feeling I have.

1 (6m 49s):
Like every time something like this happens, I feel like, oh, this feeling again, I have this feeling that I am exhausted and my head hurts and yeah. And then online, it's just a c...

Intro: tracking the weather, gardening, unhelpful aphorisms.
Let Me Run This By You: memory
Interview: We talk to Paul Holmquist about making a difference through teaching, learning Laban Movement Analysis, and making career moves in theatre. Plus, a truly horrifying story. 

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1: (00:08)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? How are you?

Speaker 2: (00:32)
Good. How are you? I'm pretty good. I mean, yeah. I'm I'm the Midwest is going snow. Are you getting snow today? Oh, don't. Oh God. Don't tell me good Lord above. Oh, hell Jesus. Um, I mean, I can not let me put it out into the universe. I cannot handle that. I cannot. Yeah, we're just going to put it out there. Nope, Nope. Nope. It's a big part path. I feel, I feel, um, I feel interested. I'm interested in that. You can, you can be. Yes. You can have a curiosity, curiosity, but I'm not, but I don't want it for the East coast, but just the Midwest, like a lot of stuff. I don't know, like wintery mix is how they put it.

Speaker 2: (01:33)
Okay. You keep tabs on the weather in Chicago. Yeah, because I'm, I'm really, I have to like really pump myself up that I moved. Like, it helps me to feel like I made the right choice. That's interesting. And um, my people in my family do that people in my family, like every once in a while, every once in a while my mom would call and she'll be like, she'll tell me, she'll say like, is it snowing there? And I'm like, what? She, yeah, every morning my family is obsessed with the weather. Yes I can. My cousin Roxie, she gets all the radars and she's tracking and she knows exactly what's coming this way. I mean, she should be a meteorologist frankly. She totally should have her own show on YouTube. She's a she's. So on top of the weather and my whole family is like that.

Speaker 2: (02:23)
I think it might be. I mean, it makes sense like that, that would have been handed down if, if it were from farmers, you know, like that would, it wouldn't be a big deal to like being to the weather. I that's like my favorite. Um, the only thing, well, not the only thing, but there was, when I went to, after my dad died, I went to the partial hospitalization program, um, in Highland park hospital. And um, in that time I had a bunch of therapists and some of them were horrible. And what, but one this one young and now looking

Speaker 3: (03:00)
Back, they were young as hell. There were young therapists and they were probably like, what? In the, uh, anyway, this one therapist said it was a gloomy day. It was a spring gloom or like summer gloomy day. And everyone was like, Oh, this weather. And he said, you know, I just have this story. You know, whenever I, whenever I have the glooms and I feel like, and at the time I thought he was a P an idiot, but he said, when it's I had planned to go to the beach today after our therapy. Right. But now I can't go to the beach and I was just thinking, it reminds me like somewhere I'm, I'm off and depressed and somewhere there's a farmer. That's rejoicing because his life is saved. Oh,

Speaker 2: (03:44)
Wow. Oh, wow. And

Speaker 3: (03:46)
I was like, it's great

Speaker 2: (03:48)
Perspective later.

Speaker 3: (03:51)
I was like, Oh my God, that is so deep. And this farmer is like dancing because his farm is saved. And I'm like, but you know, and it's not to diminish anyone's pain, but it's also just perspective. Like you said, like perspective somewhere, someone is happy and falling in love for the first time or somewhere, you know, like,

Speaker 2: (04:10)
Absolutely. And for some reason that also just reminds me of maybe just because talking about Chicago when I was an intern, social work school intern at Northwestern, inpatient, psychiatric, the thick people who worked that, I mean, people who work in psych hospitals are so interesting. Especially if they've been working there for a really long time and this, uh, OT, occupational therapist, guy, Fred Mahaffey. If you're out there, Fred, I love you. You taught me so much. Um, he, he's the person who introduced me to DBT. Um, and I was sitting in his group and he came in and he said, I just got a very upsetting, or I got a very troubling phone call, but I couldn't get into it because I have this group. And so right now, the thing I'm going to practice is, I can't know until I know

Speaker 3: (05:06)
Fred, you're amazing.

Speaker 2: (05:08)
Right? I mean, I think about that all the time. You can't know until, you know, which is really so much about worry and anxiety. It's all this worry about the things that we don't know. And sometimes that's appropriate sometimes. Yeah. You should be worried because something terrible is going to happen. And other times you just waste all of the in-between and then it turns out to be nothing. And you've just been tied up in knots for no reason.

Speaker 3: (05:32)
I am. The more, the older I get, the more I'm I sort of, um, am drawn to, um, Tibetan, Buddhism. And I am reading, I read it every couple years. I read Pema childrens when things fall apart, heart advice for hard times or difficult times. It's brilliant. It's it's saving me in terms of, it go...

Intro: Gina is co-hostless and doing her best. PLEASE SUBSCRIBE, RATE, and REVIEW you beautiful Survivors!
Interview: SUNY Geneseo, Boston University, Tisch, Juilliard, Playwriting MFAs, competition in writing programs, Marsha Norman, Cry It Out, MAID on Netflix, Hollywood sea changes, female-centered shows, domestic violence, emotional abuse, Hulu, theatre is behind, denial, making mistakes, bad reviews.
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (10s):
And I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school

2 (12s):
Together. We survived it.

1 (14s):
We didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all

2 (21s):
Survived theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet?

1 (34s):
Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. This is Gina. This week. We are sons' cohost, just one host today. I'm missing my better half BAAs. His boss is actually attending to a friend who got terrible health news this week. And she is in her very boss like way being there for her friend and being the amazing person and friend that she is, which is why everybody loves buzz. Anyway, she'll be back next week if you're not. But today we have, honestly, you guys, this is the interview I have been waiting for.

1 (1m 19s):
Molly Smith. Metzler is a writer extraordinaire. You may have heard of her latest project made number three on Netflix entering its 28th day online, which has some very special meaning for Netflix that I hope to know more about one day and previous to me being the showrunner for maid, she also worked on shameless and several other successful television shows. And before that she was a playwright. And actually I got to know her work because I directed a play of hers called cry it out.

1 (1m 59s):
And it was a fantastic experience. And I started communicating with her over email when I was directing. And I was so impressed with the way that she responded to me. I mean, a that she responded to me at all that she was available to me at all. And not something you always get with a playwright and B that she really took her time with her responses and see that her responses ended up being pretty impactful for me, just not necessarily related to the play, but as a person. And I'm a little embarrassed that when I talked to her and I told her the way that she had impacted me, I just started seriously just crying, crying, crying.

1 (2m 45s):
And I was having this thought like, I, this is not a moment I want to be crying. And I'm generally in life. I, I welcomed here as, as a person who struggles to access their emotions. I do. I welcome a good cry, but it not want to be crying to Molly Smith Metzler in this great interview. But you know, it is what it is. If I'm going to be honest, I have to be honest. I can't be choicy about when I'm being myself. That's my, that's my mantra. Recently you have to be yourself in all the ways. Some of those ways are ugly and disgusting and you know, unsavory, and some of them are fine and some of them are be even beautiful.

1 (3m 31s):
So I'm working on embracing the, a mess that I am, but I really think you're going to enjoy this interview with Molly. She's fantastic. Even without the always wonderful presidents, presidents presence, maybe she should be president even without the always wonderful presence of BAAs. We still managed to have a great conversation and actually that whole experience of her at the last minute, not being able to do this and this being the first time we're doing this with one host, turns out to have been a good thing for us to go through, to learn that.

1 (4m 14s):
Yeah, sometimes we're not both going to be available and sometimes when I'm not available, she'll be doing an episode on her own. So, you know, whatever we're growing, changing learning, Hey, we're in 22 countries. Now, if you have a, not a subscribed to this podcast, please do. If you have not rated this podcast or given it a review, please, please, please, please, please, please do it seriously. Please do it, please. I'm begging you. Please do it, but okay. Anyway, here's Molly Smith message.

0 (4m 53s):
Well,

1 (5m 0s):
No problem whatsoever. Fortunately, my partner is Jen. Her very good friend just got diagnosed with cancer yesterday and she's with her right now helping. So she's not going to be able to join us. This is actually the first time we're doing an interview with just me. So we'll see how it goes.

3 (5m 23s):
Yeah,

1 (5m 24s):
It is. And she just, she has a lot of experience with, with cancer. So she's sort of like the first people, first person people call, which is like,

3 (5m 38s):
Yeah,

1 (5m 38s):
Exactly, exactly. But anyway, congratulations, Molly Smith. Metso you survived theater school and you're going to have to clarify for me because it looks like you went to four schools, but you didn't go to four theater schools. Did you?

3 (5m 52s):
I went to four schools. I did. They're not all theater schools, but I went to undergrad, SUNY Geneseo in Western New York and I was an English major. And then I went to Boston university and got a master's in creative writing with a concentration in playwriting. And then I went to Tisch and got an MFA in playwriting dramatic writing. And then I went to Juilliard, which is, you don't really get a degree there. It's called an artist diploma, but it's just finishing school basically.

1 (6m 20s):
Oh, okay. So the decision to, to do the MFA, were you thinking at that time that you, maybe you were going to be a teacher, I'm always curious about MFA's and writing because you know, if you learned what you needed to know and you know, why not just put yourself out there and be a writer?

3 (6m 40s):
I think it's very scary to take that jump. The thing about school that I got addicted to is that I'm actually way too social to be a writer. I like being around other writers and every, and every time you get a graduate program, you're with a bunch of writers and you have deadlines and you kind of, you know, it's a really public way to study writing versus alone in your apartment while way to say, you know, and I kept getting academic support to attend the programs. And so that was part of it. I'm not sure I would have gone deep into debt to get all those degrees, but I think giving me aid, I kept going. Yeah.

1 (7m 16s):
Okay, fantastic. And did you always know from day one that you, I mean, since you were in high school anyway, that you wanted to be a writer that you wanted to write dramatically?

3 (7m 26s):
I always loved writing. I had journals and I'm from a very young age. I love to write, but I had a sort of more academic feeling about it. I thought I was going to get a PhD in English and join the academy and be a professor. And I didn't know, I was creative in the sense of dramatic writing until my senior year of college. When I took a playwriting class, I didn't know I was a playwright. And I also didn't know. I was funny. Those two things emerged at the same time. Wow.

1 (7m 54s):
Oh, so you didn't have experience with theater before then?

3 (7m 58s):
Well, I grew up a ballerina, so I had a great sense of the stage and the relationship between an audience and someone onstage. I really like, I understood light and the power of an audience, but I, no, I didn't grow up a theater nerd at all. I grew up a nerd nerd, lik...

Interview: We talk to star of stage and screen Desmin Borges about The Theatre School,  Minneapolis Children's Theatre Company, Peter Brosius, improvising and workshopping new works at Teatro Vista, Dennis Začek Sandy Shinner,  Victory Gardens, phonetic pillows, Arthur Lessac's work, speaking creatively through rhythm instead of words, Ann Wakefield, Ric Murphy, John Leguizamo aka Johnny Legs, winning a preschool talent show televised on Telemundo with his rendition of La Bamba, growing up in a barber shop, losing his dad to cancer at age 15, Elaborate Entrance of Chad Deity by Kristoffer Diaz, The Buddy Holly Story musical with Janey Lauer, Barry Brunetti, Dominic and Eugene, The Room Upstaris, Stephen Belber's Tape, Tokoloshe, stereotyping of Latine actors, Brian Cox, Boleros for the Disenchanted, being #1 on the call sheet.

Intro: Nasty neighbors in the Great Unraveling, The Rest Movement
Let Me Run This By You: Rejection
Interview: We talk to Tina Huang about soap opera acting, LaGuardia High School, the Playwrights Horizon program at Tisch, breaking down barriers for Asian actors, Ammunition Theatre Company, Revenge Porn or the Story of a Body by Carla Ching, Bay Area Theatre, Pig Hunt, starting a fake management company,  Word for Word Performing Arts Company, Intersection for the Arts, Campo Santo, Amy Tan, 1:1 Productions, Karla Mosley, Jeanne Sakata.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez this, and I'm Gina Pulice.

2 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of

2 (20s):
It all. We survive theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

0 (34s):
You

2 (35s):
Part of the building.

1 (36s):
Okay,

2 (37s):
Great. I don't know how it's gonna go.

1 (41s):
I mean, nobody knows how it's gonna go. It's unknowable until we know it.

2 (45s):
That is true. Good morning.

1 (48s):
Good. Margie,

2 (50s):
Your makeup looks amazing.

1 (53s):
Thank you. I'm not doing well, so I'm acting opposite. You know that skill?

2 (59s):
Oh, I know. Oh, that's like, I would say like 90% of adulthood. Anyway. What's happening? What, what is, if you wanna get into it, like what's the overall arching shittiness,

1 (1m 10s):
The overarching thing is just, Well, my neighbor I told you about.

2 (1m 15s):
Okay. And I just wanna put it out there and we'll get into the story, but I wanna put it out there that I, we are in, and we've said this before on the podcast in what I would call, and others like Gina would call probably similar, the great unraveling of our society. So it's like Rome is falling and I, I don't even say it, it sounds so cavalier the way I'm saying it, but I literally every day see evidence of the great unraveling of the American sweater. You know what I mean? Like it's coming out. Yes. Yeah. And we, it's okay. And I think one of those things is terrible neighbors, right? Like, people who are terrible are just getting more terrible.

2 (1m 58s):
So Gina has a neighbor that is very terrible.

1 (2m 0s):
Yeah. People just over the last several years do seem to feel way more comfortable just being extremely hor. Horrible. Horrible. So what, So this is the same neighbor that I've talked about before. And basically the deal with her is it's like she's obsessed with us. And, and like, what she doesn't understand is that we just work very hard to avoid her, you know, avoid interacting with her at any cause. I realized yesterday after she screamed at me that she has screamed at three fifths of my family members.

1 (2m 40s):
She only hasn't screamed at the nine year old and the, and the 14 year old. It's so insane. She's the one who Aaron was walking the dog and he had a flashlight and the dog was really young and he was trying to train him. So he kept like stopping and starting screens out. It's very disconcerting to be sitting in my living room and seeing a flashing light in front of my house, house. Like, he's like, I'm walking the dog. And the same one who when she was walking her dogs and he was walking our dog, she's like, It's not a great time to be walking your dog because her dogs are out of control. And she's yelled at my son a few times. Anyway, so what happened was, I walked the dog, I picked up the poop, I had the little baggy. If it's anybody else's house, I feel comfortable putting it in their trash

2 (3m 23s):
Can. Yeah. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I hate to tell you people, but poop is trash. There's like nowhere else to put it. So if you, if you are like not okay with pooping in your trash in a bag tied up, then you don't need to live in a society where there are dogs or where there are trash. Cause that's what it

1 (3m 44s):
Is, Honestly. Honestly. And it's like, I feel like a big part of what's driving all this bad behavior is just like, so much entitlement. Like, I'm entitled to have only my trash in my trash can. And it's like, okay, you've never lived in New York City, right? Cause you don't understand anything about cooperative living. And anybody, whether they live in my neighborhood or not, is welcome to put their poop

2 (4m 6s):
Back. Yeah, dude.

1 (4m 7s):
So I'm walking by and I'm talking on the phone stuff, somewhat distracted, and I see this trash can, and I go, I like reach out ever So tentatively, not tentatively, but like, I had barely started to reach out, realized it was their house didn't. And within milliseconds, she is out of her house screaming at me. And I hadn't even, you know, put the poop in there. And I, I'm talking about misbehavior. I mean, I've, I don't think I've ever done this except for like having road rage in the car where the other person really can't hear me. Like I just screamed every obscenity Yes.

1 (4m 48s):
In the book. I, I hope nobody else, I'm sure somebody else heard, but nobody, nobody's contacted me. And, you know, I'll say this, I'm much better about taking a beat. Like, I really wanted to blast her. I really wanted to like write a horrible message to her. I really want, and I, and I don't, I'm not refined enough, well enough evolved enough to like get right to like, what's, what's the need of the matter? But I have figured out that I should probably just not say anything until, until I've thought about it. I had a good long think she messaged me on social

2 (5m 22s):
Media. What

1 (5m 23s):
She said, I'm sorry, I accused you of throwing trash in our trash can. And I just blocked her. I'm just like, you know, I, I, I wanted, what I wanted to say is like, you have no idea how much time we spend trying to avoid you. You are unwell. You have yelled at three fifths of my family, like, never speak to me or my children ever again. Forget I exist. Forget I live right across the street from you because that's what I'm trying to do about you. So

2 (5m 50s):
Instead you just blocked her. Well listen that, that, because when you told me this story yesterday that she, the the reach out on social media hadn't happened. So now I'm like, I think what, before you said that part, I was gonna say like, I think our only recourse is what people do, which is start videotaping the insanity. And I'm not sure that's a really a good solution. Like, I think that like, oh sure, people put it on social media and then there's a laugh, but then we're really laughing at sort of the horribleness and the, and the mental illness of others. And it's their person and who knows how that's gonna negatively affect them or their job or their family. So I don't, like, I understand the, the urge to videotape everything, but I'm not sure that's really the answer with, with non-criminal behavior.

2 (6m 40s):
If it's a crime, then i...

Intro: Boz didn't win Powerball
Let Me Run This By You: 10 Strange Questions
Interview: We talk to Kelley Curran about The Gilded Age, having career faith, Fordham at Lincoln Center, The Acting Company, 4.48 Psychosis, Heather Lind, Michaela McManus, Taylor Schilling, Betty Gilpin, Kate Burton, Lawrence Sacharow, Marian Seldes, Roger Reese, Cherry Jones, Fiona Shaw, Oregon Shakespeare, Shakespeare in the Park, Lady Percy in Henry IV, Davis McCallum, Carrie Coon, playing a villain, Telsey and Co., Angels in America, Downton Abbey, Julian Fellowes, Michael Engler, Tim Kubart, and doing a nude scene for millions.

Intro: SAG insurance, returning to normal, Cedar Point, Disneyland tours, the mundane casualties of covid, conspiracy theories, 5G radiation.
Let Me Run This By You: How good are you at saying you're wrong?
Interview: We talk to Syler Thomas about finding his faith while at TTS, Christian media, and finding performance everywhere.

We talk to star of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Yale School of Drama alum LeRoy McClain!
Intro: Aaron survived a heart attack! Marriage is hard.
Let Me Run This By You: Love Has Won and the tale of Mother God, Matthew Perry
Interview: We talk to star of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Yale School of Drama alum LeRoy McClain about being born in England, being a biracial boy with a British accent in Hawaii, studying at Loyola, seeing community in and discovering a passion for theatre, and the sometimes difficult path of getting an advanced degree at Yale.

*This episode was recorded on Election Day, 2020*
Intro: Gina bastardizes a beautiful e.e. cummings poem
Let Me Run This By You: Lack of acceptance, Japanese death philosophy, Unsolved Mysteries, tsunamis, personal responsibility, aggressively fearful flag waving, wearing your fear like a cloak of armor, more on NXVIM, channeling a lil' psychopathy, emotional felonies.
Interview: We talk to Tait Smith! Feldenkrais, feeling in over your head at TTS, Le Mars Iowa the Ice Cream Capital of the World, high school sweethearts, seeing Morgan Freeman and Q-Tip at the Michigan Avenue Bennigans, Brighton Beach Memoirs, crying in your dorm room, expanding your mind in college, smoking and wearing fedoras and pagers, the appearance of confidence, expectations of the college experience (football games and cutting class) as compared to the realities of conservatory life (classes all day and rehearsals or performances at night), viewing fellow alums as war buddies, clicking in Improv class, the fabled Apartment 3, waiting for your re-acceptance letter in the summer, work study, Lincoln Park Foods, Ed Debevic's, Lollapalooza 1994, the unreleased film "Stricken" starring Tait, Jamie Kennedy, Sean Gunn, and Judy Greer. Auditioning sucks. Finding a stage wherever you are and redefining performance and storytelling, life lessons from TTS, differing philosophies about rehearsal, wild improv moments with Peyton Myrick,  the subjective nature of art and the imposed judgment of it that happens in drama school, Epsom Downs, the politics of the cut system, big laughs and good times with Alex Skuby, artists looking for acceptance and validation, Charlie's Ale House in Chicago, having Thai food for the first time with Eric Slater leading the way, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to do yoga and Movement to Music, making enough money to say thanks to Mom and Dad, Antigone, the Adding Machine, Detective Story with Lou Contey, Merchant of Venice, Sisterly Feelings, and LSD. 

We talk to Kate McKiernan
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet In computer? Let me see your sweatshirt. Oh, it says don't now. Listen, I love it. It is not my mood of the day. Oh, usually I like to dress according to my mood. Okay. My mood is not don't because it's Virgo season and Friday, Friday.

1 (53s):
Yeah. Also Kelly McAdam's birthday and the same birthday. Same exact birthday. And Russell's is I think it's like on the 19th. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I love Virgos Libras and Virgos get along splendidly. Okay. Do you have any other Virgos in your life? My old boss used to be a Virgo that the one that I actually really liked at Lutheran social services and a lot of my work people have been Virgos just like coworkers and we get along really good. So Virgos to me are like, if Scorpios took their medication and Scorpios hate, I hate when, I mean like I've, I've gotten so much flack for like, I have such trouble with Scorpio women, such trouble.

1 (1m 45s):
I mean, doesn't everybody. Well, I don't know. Some people love them. A Scorpio. I Scorpio women are like, for me as if I would rather be trapped in an elevator with a monster than a Scorpio woman, you know what I'm saying? Like I just, my, my, my old roommate from way back was a Scorpio and she did some really crazy shit. Like the most aggressive shit I have ever seen in a human being in my life. And I was like, and then subsequently I've met Scorpio women who I'm like, oh, this is all the same.

1 (2m 30s):
You're all the same person. What is happening here? So like things that are just kryptonite to me and also things I need to work on, but like passive aggressiveness in terms of like dealing with a passive aggressive person, some people like don't take passive aggressive people. Seriously. They're able to be like, oh, that person's passive aggressive. I'm like, oh my God, they're gonna kill me. Yeah. Like I have to run for my life. And then their feedback is really hard for me to take. And yeah, I just, I have, I have a real fear and it's, and, and I remember I was in a play and we were talking about that and I said out loud, like, oh my God, I have not thinking someone.

1 (3m 17s):
Who's probably a Scorpio. I feel like I have such problem with Scorpio women. And this Scorpio woman goes, what's your problem? And I was like, oh, you're a Scorpio woman. This is, and I want it to be like, this is my problem. But I was just like, oh, I just, I really find you terrifying. She was like, what? Why? And I was like, well, there's the tone. That's the tone. That's what I'm talking about. So anyway, Virgos, not that. So Virgos have this for me. The same kind of, they're more okay. Like Scorpios, the control issue seems so great. And Ruggles, the control issue. They, in my, in my experience, they use the control issue to get organized rather than terrorize other people.

1 (4m 3s):
Right. So wait, was your mother? No, they were all my mom and dad were Aquarians and like, just know my mother might know, you would think my mother, she was maybe her rising or her moon was Scorpio because she was so Scorpio. She was not, they were neither of that. My dad was more of an Aquarian. But in any case, it's your birthday week? It's Virgo. It's Virgo season. It's my birthday week. The big four. Sick. Are you, are you? I always, I thought I've been for six. So there you go. What are you, are you going to do something, anything, a party like dinner with your family.

1 (4m 43s):
I'm going to do a party, but I'm sure we'll have dinner or something. I mean, Friday's a nice day and actually Aaron's taking the day off, so that'll be good. So we'll do something. I was going to ask you, how did your kiddos self-tape go? Oh, it went just fine. Yeah. Thank you for your help with that. Yeah. For those of you listening. Yeah. I called boss because we had to do a self-tape with no dialogue and not only no dialogue, he was supposed to be in a fist fight with a bunch of people. It just seems like really? I mean, my thing is like, why you could either just ask for a full body slate at which they did too, or have him read something else.

1 (5m 27s):
That's not for the part. I just don't understand. Like, everybody looks stupid punching the air. It's not, it you're so right. And I think all that is needed there. And this is just like my, you know, soap box about the industry. All that's needed is a little extra attention to detail. One sentence in there. Please give us a shot of facial reactions as if this person was watching or afraid or in a fight watching a fist fight. Because that's really what they're looking for is to, you said it a full body slate to see what their body looks like and their facial reactions. I mean, all that's needed is a sentence, like all that.

1 (6m 10s):
And I feel like that a lot about, I feel like I'm not an actor anymore, which is a whole nother, which is okay. But like, when I cause now talking about it, I'm like, I, I haven't had an audition a really long time, but like, I just, it's true. You have auditions all the time. Wow. I mean, you've had you had an audition couple of weeks ago, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I guess in my head, I sort of have like, I mean, when I talk to other actors, they're like, since the pandemic I've had too much. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, that's not my experience. Okay. So good perspective. Good perspective. But like, I, I, when I listened to, when I think about acting and casting and stuff like that, now I'm like, okay, like how can we make it easier for the actors?

1 (6m 54s):
And how can we, so when you and I are writing something that gets produced or when I'm doing something else, like, I don't know, writing in a writer's room or something, it's like, how can we make people's jobs easier and not harder and more, you know, because I guess what if you make anybody's job easier, everybody's job is easier, I think is so fundamentally true that we are just missing. And I think it's, end-stage capitalism again of like, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, if you, if, if you help one person, the whole, the whole team thrives, this is not what capitalism is, is based on.

1 (7m 35s):
So, so yeah. And, and miles was talking about, you know, my husband was talking about the like elections and things like that. And I, and, and global, we were talking about a global warming crisis. And I just said, you know, like, it always comes down to like, we tried, like some of us tried and some of us are trapped, but like humans on planet earth, especially in the west, gave it a shot. And maybe, maybe the, you know, the planet is kicking us off and we're how long can you stick around in a place and treat it so poorly on so many levels before you're kicked out of the club, you know, like we're getting kicked out of the club here. So, yeah.

1 (8m 14s):
Yeah. And this is the part of the whole Handmaid's tale story, which is so wild to think about because the premise, the conceit that they've adopted in the movie, which is not in the book or the television show, which is not in the book, is that all of this was done in part, in an effort to heal the planet. Like they did actually successfully reverse the impacts of climate change, at least from the Gilliad. Right. But at what cost, and I hope it's not trying to say, I hope it's trying to make that complicated and not say, Hey, if you want the climate to get better, everybody has to go into sexual servitude.

1 (9m 3s):
I don't think they're trying to say that, but I don't either, but it ends up feeling...

Intro: Gina and Jen make a list of embarrassing things and read them off in an attempt to reduce their unnecessary shame! Stories include John C. Reilly, Nicky Silver, and Norman Mailer.
Interview: We talk to Allison Zell about choosing directing over acting, Savage/Love, taking acting classes to overcome piano recital stage fright, Grotowski and Towards a Poor Theatre, casting from the vantage point of a directing student, Insignificance, Desdemona, Soul Monsters, Best plays of 1994, her one-woman show Come to Leave, James Urbaniak,  The Public, Joe's Pub, Suzan Lori Parks, She Keeps Time, running out of patience in the unpaid theatre scene, editing for film, Tribeca Film Festival,  user experience design, jewelry design,  Casey Childs, The Secret Rapture, Specter, Regarding Electra, Harvey, and reflecting on gender dynamics. 

Intro: Accountability, the power of speaking with certainty (i.e. Jen believed she was a different age because someone miswrote it on a medical report), false confessions.
Let Me Run This By You: We are always our essential selves, Soleil Moon Frye's new film Kid 90,
Interview: We talk to Sue O'Lear from The Strongly Worded Podcast about chafing in the theatre school environment, seeking art with a social justice bent, the little-discussed psychological trauma that can result in plumbing the depths of one's emotions for a character, and surviving with the help of the good people at Espial Bistro & Bar.

Intro: Mummies vs. Zombies, cancer doulas
Let Me Run This By You: Gina has projection issues.
Interview: We talk to Joe Mantegna about Morton College, The Goodman School of Drama, Arthur Lessac, starting his career with HAIR, Dr. Charles McGaw, The Shubert Theater, Morton West High School, André De Shields, Jonathan Banks, Carrie Snodgrass, his close relationship with Bella Itkin, Geraldine Page, Eugenie Leontovich, Patrick Henry, playing Judas in Godspell, Organic Theater,  the Grease premiere at Kingston Mines theater, Jack Wallace, Medusa Challenger,  Stuart Gordon, the sci-fi play Warp!, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Dennis Franz,  John Heard, Richard Gilliland, Meshach Taylor,  The Wonderful Ice Cream Suit, Esai Morales, Edward James Olmos,  Bleacher Bums, Robert Smigel, winning the Tony, Mandy Patinkin, his approach to ensemble acting, breaking news about  Criminal Minds!, House of Games, dealing with David Mamet's language, American Buffalo, Sexual Perversity in Chicago, A Life in the Theatre, William H. Macy, going up on his lines on opening night of Glengarry Glen Ross, Lindsay Crause, Nan Cibula-Jenkins, Vincent Gardenia, and why JOE MANTEGNA PREFERS TALKING TO US OVER THE NEW YORK TIMES! Hopefully, next time we'll get into the Jim Clemente of it all, about Southern Italian miners migrating to the American Southwest, and Wait Until Spring Bandini
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We

1 (13s):
Survived it, but we

2 (14s):
Didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We

1 (21s):
Survived theater school and you will

2 (23s):
Too. Are we famous yet? Which is the horrible,

1 (32s):
Where's their costume. What did she wear? Who was she?

2 (35s):
Zombie cheerleader.

1 (36s):
Love it. Love it. Especially since I'm I'm I'm watching glee. I'm I'm for the first time. And there's the, all about the cheerleaders there. Zombie cheerleader. Perfect. Okay.

2 (47s):
So she's walking around and she's holding these pom-poms out and I'm like, what is she doing? And then I realized she was doing a zombie walk. She's

1 (56s):
Smart. Why

2 (57s):
Do some bees hold their arms out in front of her?

1 (60s):
Oh, that's a great, great question. If there's any zombie experts in his zombie historians in our listener pool, please write to us and tell us why that's great. Like I think it started with mummy's.

2 (1m 16s):
Well, Frank. Okay. Okay. That's what I was going to ask next. I was going to say if there are any zombie historians, please tell us what the origin of it was. So mummies

1 (1m 25s):
It's first in the old movies, old, old movies, the mummies walked like that. So I think the zombies are stealing that look from the mommies, so,

2 (1m 35s):
Okay. And you do something around this time of year. It does get, like I forget about, there's a difference between a zombie and a mummy and then,

1 (1m 43s):
And they're slow zombies. There's fat, some bees, I mean, zombies is a whole genre of everything. Oh yeah. Like, like if you, if you read screenwriting stuff, they talk a lot about not, not all books, but a lot of books when they're talking about genre, it's like the, the, to get really specific. You can't just say zombie, it has to be, are they slow or fast on B? So like in what is it like a world war Z. They're fast Sotheby's but like, I believe in the original day of the dead, Romero's their slows on me. So it's a whole thing. And I know, I only know this because I had a friend that was like a zombie nuts, so,

2 (2m 24s):
Okay. So picture you and I are sitting on a park bench in the apocalypse and we're just still our same normal self. Somehow we've avoided getting effected by the apocalypse. And then this zombie just goes, zipping the thing past us. And we say, yeah,

1 (2m 44s):
The past sappy and then a slow one comes with that's a slow zombie.

2 (2m 49s):
Can you tell, I can see already that's going to be a real slow. What about a medium speed zombie? That's what I would probably be. I'd probably ride,

1 (2m 59s):
I think I'd be on the slower end, but, but I, I think with some training we could maybe get to be fast zombies if we wanted, if we wanted to. Yeah. So did you get your self care in? I did I feel, how do I feel? How to say? Yeah. So it's interesting. I, I am in amongst my group of peers and people, a little younger I've become sort of the, my cousin called it the cancer doula. So when the exact term, yeah. And so I had a friend who was diagnosed on Tuesday with breast cancer and I sort of helped her navigate until she could.

1 (3m 43s):
Cause t...

Intro: Boz loves LinkedIn. Will she emcee the next Beastie Boys event?
Interview: We talk to star of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel Cynthia Darlow about North Carolina School of the Arts,  performing for Tennessee Williams, the historic theatrical residence for young women called the Rehearsal Club, Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts, the Webster Apartments, getting the word out about their story through New York Times article, spending the entire day in line to audition at the cattle call for the touring company of Grease, Pat Birch, Vinnie Liff, having the same agent for 55 years, Tony Shaloub, American Repertory Theatre, Cherry Jones, getting furniture for her home made by Patrick Swayze, working with Michael Zegen, the play that got away, and whether or not people should go to theatre school.

Intro: rain in LA, Nine Perfect Strangers, we're worried about Nicole Kidman and Madonna, The Way Down documentary, The Plot Thickens podcast, Glee
Let Me Run This By You: antisemitism
Interview: Jen and Gina talk about survival, itself.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth wrote me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Yeah. Stay happy yesterday birthday. Was it a good day? It was a good day. You know, I think the coolest part of yesterday was we had crazy thunderstorms, like crazy for LA.

1 (50s):
Like I was like, is that thunder? What in the crazy thunderstorms, which we never obviously having the desert. So, or in LA the thing that's come, the episodes that's coming out today, you specifically referenced how there's never any vendor's derms in LA. That's really funny. So, yeah, so it was a very chill day. In a lot of ways. I spent a lot of time. My cousin came from San Francisco and she stays at the, she stayed at a Sheraton hotel and we, I woke up, I usually had Mondays, I take my, like a sunrise hike, but I just wasn't feeling it.

1 (1m 30s):
I was really tired. And so I just laid around and then I went to my favorite cafe that I recently discovered called superba. And then I like it. And then I hung out with my cousin and we literally like went to my favorite restaurant, which is tender greens. Do you guys have tender greens over there? No, it sounds, this sounds like a great salad place, salads and bowls. So my thing is like, I get really resentful. If I sometimes just eat a salad, I need like a grain to go with my salad. I'm like, I don't want just a salad. So they have these sort of grain and salad bowls with meat and say, or like salmon chicken or veggie or a steak.

1 (2m 18s):
And so I, it was delicious. It's like my favorite. So overpriced, it's so ridiculous for a fast food place, but whatever it's health, it's pretty healthy. And that was amazing. And then yeah, then around like four, the skies turned really dark and I was like, what is happening? I thought it was fires. And then it just burst out and I heard thunder and I was like, what? So it was a really good day. I got some really like lovely messages. And there was that huge Facebook outage. Right? Yeah. So it was interesting in blessing the blessing Facebook outage. So my cousin asked me, she's like, well, like how is it to have no Facebook messages on your birthday?

1 (3m 3s):
Cause that's when people really go for it. You know, it's an interesting thing. It is kind of like, oh, but then it's also like, oh, I'm missing out. But then it is also really interesting how, right? Like it's just like going to church on Christmas. Like you go one day a year and you're like, or some people do. And then you're like, oh, I'm good for them. And so that's the same with the like happy birthday, Facebook messages. So I thought, yeah, it's just a really good, interesting thing to like, not be able one to go on social media that we all probably experienced and then to not be able to get the fix of like happy birthday, happy, you know?

2 (3m 40s):
Yeah. Yeah.

1 (3m 41s):
It's an interesting psychological situation. So it was, it was, do they know why it went down?

2 (3m 48s):
Oh yes, girl. I read the most, I loved this. This is, I mean, I'm sorry to say it, but it's even psychological. This thing that happens. So face book now I I'm gonna say this in just the bleakest artful way. People like Bradley Walker are going to be listening to this being like, you're such a guy, but I'm going to say in a way that I would understand. So maybe other people understand too Facebook's infrastructure, their, their technological infrastructure and their servers or everything. It's all Facebook brand blitz say they don't interface really with other companies there.

2 (4m 31s):
They're what is that called vertical integration. It's like one stop shopping, everything that they do and produce and need and use it's all within Facebook. So that's fine, except for when there's a problem and the override. So the problem is also a Facebook entity and then the right. So they were even having the problem that they couldn't get into the server room because the key card that they needed to open the door to get into the server room was high.

1 (5m 7s):
Brilliant, brilliant. And it's, it does go to the same. It sort of speaks to the, the thing about pathology and addiction and stuff, which is you can't fix the problem with the same mind that created the problem or has the problem. And that's what they experienced. Oh my God.

2 (5m 27s):
You know, and it's like, don't be a closed loop. You know, like this is the problem with being a closed loop. I mean, I understand it like in an emotional way, I understand the desire to be a closed loop because you get into this thing of like, I can't rely on anybody else. You can only rely on myself and like, everybody else disappointed me. I'm that mark Zuckerberg has that written all over his face. Like he is such a hard on for the world. Like he has such a chip on his shoulder about like how everybody has wronged him. I feel, I mean, I don't know him, but that's just what it seems like. And so his desire to have everything be controlled by himself is understandable.

2 (6m 11s):
And it's, it is going to be the thing that leads to his downfall, whatever the case, whatever the downfall is, we can be sure that it has something to do with this desire to have everything, everything be within his control.

1 (6m 24s):
Yeah. And I think it is going to be his undoing. And I think it is like we saw yesterday and, and, and I mean, it just was such fodder for hilariousness. It was like, I literally saw a news headline that was, and I don't remember what it was some paper in London or something that said Facebook and Twitter and WhatsApp are down. Maybe you should take this opportunity to go down on someone else or something like that. It was like, <inaudible> like everything

2 (6m 56s):
Public library said for everybody's information. We're not down. We're still open. By the way. The thing about the storms, you can always tell, you can instantly know it's raining in LA because 1 million pictures of rain it's like ever, it's such an event. Everybody's Instagramming it,

1 (7m 16s):
Everyone. It's so interesting. It's like weather is so like basic, like people that were so affected by weather, even if we pretend not to be like, it's just great unifier. Yeah. And we're just, it's just an, I like it. Cause it's the great thing that like no one can control, right? Like speaking of control, like he'll, I mean, one day Elon Musk will probably figure out how to control the weather, but until then nobody can. And it's fantastic.

2 (7m 43s):
Speaking of Elon Musk, did you see that picture of Grimes reading? Like I'm going to spend a Festo. I read that if that should have been, that photograph should have been in the museum of camp. Like, so for people who don't know Grimes was, is this singer a woman? It's was he Elon Musk's girlfriend? And they broke up and then she's got this very, you know, obviously staged photo of herself in head to toe, whatever crazy leather with her long ass nails and her makeup reading, Karl Marx, ...

Intro: the coolest thing about crows, Bexley, fear of flying, Inattentive-type ADD
Let Me Run This By You: Avoidance, becoming conflict-curious
Interview: We talk to Jason Denuszek about Pinnacle Performance Company, theatrevolution, TimeLine Theatre, Grotowski and Poor Theatre, Woyzeck, Northwestern Cherubs, ComedySportz, Pirandello, Piven Theatre Workshop, Laughing Wild, Diary of Anne Frank, The Seagull, The Search for Delicious, Chicago Shakespeare, Rose Rage, The Actor's Gang, 

Intro: Image management, Glenn Davis, King James, Odd Mom Out, Hamilton, Abbott Elementary, The Method
Let Me Run This By You: Dads and pornography, Secrets of Playboy, The Girls Next Door, Stranger Things.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina <inaudible>.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (32s):
Yeah, it's it's it's up for debate. So you got to both interview and then see Glenn Davis in a play. So tell us about,

1 (43s):
So I will say that I haven't seen a play. I saw Hamilton in LA, which isn't a play to me. It's a musical and it's also a spectacle and like, I don't know.

2 (54s):
And a cultural and that like, did you ever see, wait, I'm sorry to give a little time out, but there used to be this show on Bravo called odd mom out. And I loved it because it was about a upper east side woman who like, just didn't relate and like clock in that well with mommy culture, which I can really relate

1 (1m 15s):
Over there.

2 (1m 16s):
And there's this scene where she's talking to some other moms or I don't know, just other women. And they were like, have you seen Hamilton? And she says, no. And it precipitates is like very, you know, heightened dramatic thing where like people's jobs are under hinges. Let's say like,

1 (1m 39s):
That's hilarious.

2 (1m 41s):
Yeah. So it's an event you have to, you have to have seen how.

1 (1m 44s):
And so I thought in life, right in pop culture and in, you know, whatever. So, yeah, exactly. So I saw that, but this was the first play I've seen now to be fair. It's also a spectacle in that the mark taper, like the center theater group situation downtown LA has like six theaters or seven theaters. I had not been to the mark taper theater since literally 2000 and I don't know, two and it's gorgeous and quite a deal. And wow, just the facilities. I mean, I'm so used to shithole storefront theater that I was like, oh, this is like, oh, this is fancy. Okay.

1 (2m 24s):
So I saw king James, which is a play. It was a two hander. I didn't know that it's two people on stage the whole time. And it's Glenn Davis and this other character. Who's one of the stars on a show that I love called Abbott elementary, which is hilarious about

2 (2m 39s):
Brunson. I have seen that show, but I heard it.

1 (2m 41s):
Yes. Oh, you would love it. It's high Lariat. And just so, so, so well-written okay. So this guy, Chris Paul, something I'm going to butcher his name. So I won't try is the other character plays the other character in the play and I didn't know what to expect. I love basketball if by basketball, you mean the bulls in the nineties basketball. That's where I stop. So

2 (3m 8s):
I'll do basketball.

1 (3m 10s):
Yeah. I'm into nostalgia. Exactly. That specifically relates to a very niche time in history. Okay. In Chicago. So, okay. So this is a play about LeBron James and it's set in Cleveland and it is set like in the, I want to say the arts and then it spans the time I believe of like 10 years, maybe a little more. And it's just these two characters. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know shit about the play, which is how I like to go in. But Glen gave me was kind enough to give me comps. And I went with two friends and I loved it. I loved it. I at first. Okay. It was so interesting.

1 (3m 50s):
Like I've been spending so much time doing writing and reading television that like, I was like, oh, this is a play. Oh, oh, this is a different thing. It's like super presentational on purpose.

2 (4m 5s):
Right.

1 (4m 6s):
So it's not a, it's not television. And these are like

2 (4m 10s):
Mumble core.

1 (4m 11s):
It's not mumble core. It's not, it's not, they they're they're they can hear us. If we say noises and things make noises and things. So I was like, oh, right, right. The seats were great. And you know, it was a lot of white people in the audience, but like that's who sees theater, right? Like that's who sees this kind of theater. I think, you know, tickets were probably very expensive anyways. So I loved, okay. So you could tell that they, they had to get warm. First of all, I was closing day. We didn't see the closing show. There's there like to show a day kind of people. And so we saw the first show at one and of the last day. And the first scene you could tell, like they had, they were like, just getting warmed up because that's how live theater is by the second scene.

1 (4m 56s):
I was like, oh, these are pros. Oh, these are pros. Meaning the language moves. Now, look, they've done two runs of the show, one in Chicago at Steppenwolf and one here. So they've been the same cast. So they've been working with this material. Right. So they, they know what's going on here, but they're just both like seamlessly like a basketball game or like any sporting event. Like the physicality was brilliant. I just was like, oh, these are pros. Oh, okay. There's no, this is not a stiff cause I'm also used to teaching students. Right. So these are not students of a young students. These are oppressed. And I was like, oh shit, okay.

1 (5m 38s):
This is some real top level acting here. You know,

2 (5m 42s):
I really appreciated when in his interview with you, he said that doing the play expanded his ideas about theater goer, since you mentioned, yes. Typically all theater goers are white and older because they have the time and the money. And because it's, for all of history it's been made for them, it's been made for that demographic. But he was saying, doing this play brought a bunch of people who were not theater people, but who were basketball, people who enjoyed it. And, and that gave me a thrill like, yes, that's what we need because the re the whole perpetuation of the cycle of like, why people don't appreciate or go into theater is because if they don't get exposed to it, you know, at, at a young age.

2 (6m 27s):
And so that just keeps perpetuating itself. And in order for that to change, you have to, you have to sell people on wanting to have more of it. You know what I'm saying?

1 (6m 38s):
Yes. And so I totally know what you're saying. And I, that leads me to this thing of I, so there is this position that opened up for 15 hours a week, being an artist in residence at San Diego state, in the theater department to create art with the theater department there, but also with the community at large. And I have to say to you, if I get it, I applied. And my idea is to do, because I love monologues. Like, that's my jam. So like, what if I want to create some kind of show? That's like a community-based show where people get to write and perform their own monologues in the community in San Diego, not just students, but like the store ...

Intro: checking in on Boz's heart, atrial fibrillation, going to the doctor.
Interview: We talk to Kat Phillips about fire pet rescue, being a Commissioner on Human Rights in Sonoma County, coming to Chicago for the first time from Indiana, competition vs lifting each other up, seeing life as an improv game, almost not getting the role and working with Mel Gibson on Payback, subverting the dominant paradigm by playing punk rock Juliet, the Hothouse, gibberish operatic improv, the upcoming director's cut of But I'm A Cheerleader, and the lovely surprise of finding all kinds of people you know on TV!

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1: (00:08)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I mean, you know, it's all good, right? It's all,

Speaker 2: (00:34)
It's fine. As long as my heart keeps beating, you know, I'm fine. I know when you wake up in the morning, do you have that, like one of your first thoughts? Like is my heart. Okay. Yeah. It's more, it's interesting. So [inaudible] happens more at night when you lay down. If you're going to have it at that's the time, because your heart usually sends your brain sensing most to your heart, we're going to sleep calm down. And if you have a fib, it doesn't calm down. So I'm always like, is it? But I am okay. And I'm on medicine to slow it down. So, um, I know I'm covered and the other thing, but yes, the answer is yes to that question, but I also then can calm myself down because they did so many tests on my heart while I was there. That I, they know it's fine.

Speaker 2: (01:16)
There's no sign of heart disease. So it's more like, um, yeah, it's just anxiety. That's what it is. It's it's hard anxiety. All right. Well, since we S we tend to do so many, um, you know, public service announcements for our adoring public, tell us what it is like to get your heart tested. Like what do they do? Okay. So it's really, it's quite crazy. Um, so first of all, they just take tons of blood and you realize that it's true. What they say, that you could fill up three bathtubs with your blood, or to ask Aaron, ask Erin, I couldn't make that up, but my nurse said that, but, you know, she said, I guess it depends on how big you are. But she said that she said that, um, I think she said two or three bathtubs of blood. If you emptied out a person.

Speaker 2: (02:03)
And I was like, uh, cause, cause they took 10 vials of blood over two days, like big vials. And I was like, am I gonna bleed my going to bleed to death? And she was like, no, honey, but she may have been using what hyperbole or whatever. I don't know. But the point is we have a lot of blood in there, but anyway, so first they did a battery of blood tests and everything was fine. So that didn't freak me out. But what is freaky is the echo-cardiogram. So the echocardiogram is where it's basically an ultrasound of your heart. However, they shoot you with dye so they can see it. And you have to lay in these weird positions and they're literally like moving your ribs out of the way, moving your organs out of the way to get to the heart on the outside.

Speaker 2: (02:50)
So they don't go inside anywhere. Um, but it's like late lean here in, and at that time I was and puking. So I was like, lady, I was like, can we she's like, you're really sweaty. I'm like, no I've been, I'm like having some kind of problem here. And she's like, Oh, but she doesn't care. Her job is to get the tests done. She right. He was funny since she was doing a heart test, but she was literally the most caring one. And I understand she's got to get these pictures of the heart. And at one point I made the mistake. I should've never done this, but I said, how's it looking?

Speaker 2: (03:32)
She goes, I can't tell you that it will be read by your cardiologist. I'm not allowed to say anything. And I said, Oh, I don't know why it just came out of my mouth because I was so nervous. And I was like, what does she see? Is she seeing well, I, my only, I think I can relate to it. That is when you go to get your ultrasound, when you're having a baby, you know, you are kind of trying to read the person's face, but they do say, I mean, just to be, they always say like, well, you know, obviously everything has to be interpreted by your doctor, but it's like, it's looking good. It's looking good to me just to say like, they're not like, wow. Well, she goes, she, she did. She helped me out because I was like, Oh my God, she's not going to say anything.

Speaker 2: (04:15)
But then she goes, but you know, she goes, I can't say anything, but at the same time, I'm not running out of here. Call getting ICU on the phone or whatever, or like the heart doctor on the phone. So that made me feel better. And I did know already that my heart was beating irregularly. So I thought, well, maybe she's just talking about that, that it, but I thought, Oh, what if she see something else? Cause that's where they can really see if there's heart disease. If there's, um, valve problems, clogged arteries, they can see that with the, with the ultrasound. Um, um, and they take, I always forget with, with ultrasounds and with MRIs, I didn't have an MRI this time, but it's, it takes forever. They, they, they, because they're measuring each function of the heart, but so basically half naked on your side, but then being told to contort and then being told to hold your breath, when you feel nauseous and have to puke and you're sweating just to hold your breath.

Speaker 2: (05:07)
And I was like, Oh, I'm going to, this is not going to end well, like we,...

Intro: Boz is buying a house!
Let Me Run This By You: 47 year old Gina saw 19 year old Gina doing accent work and Mark Rannin owes me an apology.
Interview: We talk to playwright, director, and USC alum Ryan Wagner about self-diagnosing as a bad actor, protecting your joy, Miguel Arteta, filmmaking, his short film Every Other Week, Growing Up Hip Hop, being a PA, and keeping a cohort of friends to make films with.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ruez.

2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Paci.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

2 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of

1 (20s):
It all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I'll be

2 (31s):
Recording this whole time by the way, if I just realized that

1 (40s):
La Tova motherfuckers. That's what I have to say. Okay.

2 (44s):
Universe, what is it that you're trying to tell us about why we can't do this

1 (47s):
Today? Okay, so what we will say is humans of the world, we had started, we thought we recorded 20 minutes ago and really we were just having a great conversation. So

2 (59s):
I guess you missed, you missed a great time. We'll, we'll do our best to recap, but honestly there's nothing like the energy in the moment and I'm not certain I can duplicate it.

1 (1m 10s):
Yes, let's not do that. So let's just, let's just say that I'm in the house buying process, but I also wanna say like, that was good to to to get out and just that, you know, it is really interesting, you know, mercurys and retrograde, all the things that people talk about. But what I'm noticing right this second in the, well, not right this second, like, you know, throughout the day, the last couple days, is that I keep tripping over my own feet. Like literally. And I keep thinking like in any shoes, any kind of, I'm tripping over myself and it's like, okay, what is the message there? And I think one of them is like slow down, but also it's okay if you stumble also.

1 (1m 55s):
Oh yeah. Things are kind of wonky right now. Also, you're buying a house, trying to buy a house, trying to close on the house and moving potentially. So there's a lot going on. But tripping if you find yourself, And the other thing is, I had, yeah, that really mean roommate I had here used to say like she would get super, super clumsy before like her period or during,

2 (2m 19s):
That's how I get. Yep.

1 (2m 21s):
And I'm in this weird menopause situation. So like, or prairie menopause I guess. So all the things are happening. So I'm just saying, and everyone's like, well you don't wanna buy a house during mercury and retrograde. And I'm also thinking, I know and I also think that, yeah, like the whole planet's dying and in retrograde so like, you know what I mean? Like are we really gonna pinpoint the blame Mercury for

2 (2m 44s):
Yeah, let's don't split hairs. The girl needs a house, she needs more space. Space. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I'm excited for you. I think that's gonna be great. I can't wait to buy you a housewarming present. You'll have to send me your Pinterest mood board about how you're gonna Oh,

1 (2m 59s):
The part about this, the best part about this, well, not the best, but one of the parts, and my cousin hates it when I say this, but I have, I'm gonna have a, she shed

2 (3m 8s):
Nice. Your cousin hates it. Yeah. Cuz it's like, is it not PC or something?

1 (3m 12s):
I don't know, it just, she, No, I, she said it sounds like something peeing going on, like there's some bodily function involved, but I think it may be because it's, maybe because it's gendered too. I don't know. But I love saying she she, because of that commercial Yeah, with the lady goes Richard, some, someone burned down a she shed or whatever that for the insurance company Anyway, so I, I am going to keep everyone updated on what's going on there. The other thing I wanted to ask you was, is it fall there? The most important question.

2 (3m 45s):
Yeah, it's great. I mean it's like the weather is getting, you know, cool but not cold and it's still sunny mostly and yeah, no, this is what listen intellectually, I understand exactly what people mean when they say when they live in California and they say, Oh, I missed the seasons. Like if they grew up on the East coast, I, I do really understand that and it is kind of nice to have a change, but I still think I'd be fine without that too. Yeah, I'd be fine if it was just summer, I'll, I'll all year long. Well

1 (4m 19s):
I think because, because for me it's actually not about the weather, it's the nostalgia, right? It's like, oh with the, the things that are conjured up to me Gilmore Girl's style when I think of the fall. Right. And it is, and a lot of that has to do for me with family and like it's around my birthday and I remember walking home from like elementary school and having, being excited that I could hear the leaves crunching and I knew at my house was waiting my grandma and all the amazing

2 (4m 50s):
Oh,

1 (4m 50s):
That's nice. Yeah. But she's dead and the whole thing went to shit and my parents, So I, when I, and it is beautiful, but I also know that for me a lot of the seasons is about memories, right? It's not actually

2 (5m 2s):
Yeah. And I don't have that, I don't have any nostalgia about fall and winter and, you know. Right. Yeah. So that makes, it

1 (5m 7s):
Totally depends on the divide. Hey, by,

2 (5m 20s):
I mean we, we as women have so many mountains to climb and as podcasters. Okay. So Bo and I have talked several times on the show about wishing we could have a camera to record or something that would've captured any of our time in the theater school, whether it was on stage or, or or otherwise. And I don't know about you, but I resigned myself to, It's never gonna happen and we're just always gonna wonder about it. Well, don't count out Ms. Allison Zel, who recorded all of her performance. She was a director, MFA director. So it makes sense to me that she would wanna make sure she had her performances on camera.

2 (6m 1s):
Now I wanna reach out to the other directors of my other workshops cuz you know, I did all the workshops. So Sean Plan again and David Mold, if you are listening and you have video of any of your shows from theater school, please let me know. Okay. So, okay.

1 (6m 19s):
Wait, wait, wait. I just have to say one thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'll mute again. This is fantastic. Also, of course Azel of course because she was like, she was so much more to in my mind, like more sophisticated and grown up and like New York City and all the things. Yeah. So it doesn't shock me, but it does shock me. So proceed.

2 (6m 37s):
Yeah. Yeah. She's the kind of person who probably started doing to-do list when she was like six years old, which is what my daughters like, and those people are forces to be reckoned with. But yeah, so I did, there's a Paula Vogel play called Des Doona, a play about a Hankerchief. And so it's a feminist take on Othello because it's from the right, The fellow is that? Yeah, Okay. I just, I just flashed on Wait, that's not the right place. Yeah. And so my, and I remembered it of course as soon as I saw it I had to do this crazy accent, this crazy dialect. It was like, o...

Intro: Titan(ic), Botox, Wegovy
Interview: We talk to star of Severance Sydney Cole Alexander about LaGuardia High School, SUNY Purchase, and Severance.

Intro: We are in the Great Unraveling - let's knit a new sweater

Let Me Run This By You: Thin is In, ETHS Drama teacher Bruce Siewerth's abuse of students, iCarly's creator Dan Schneider's abuse of actors

Interview: We talk to Hamilton's own George Washington - Paul Oakley Stovall about family, touring with Hamilton, being fearless, the magic of solving problems behind the scenes, early-age professionalism, quick changes, University of Illinois Urbana- Champaign, almost being a Chemical Engineer, Gary Mills, Don Ilko's quiet championship, Ric Murphy's vocal championship, when Jim Ostholthoff called Paul a supernova, Dr. Bella Itkin's career advice, playing John Proctor in The Crucible and Starbuck in 110 in the Shade, Working by Studs Terkel, Betsy Hamilton, being in Caryl Churchill's Serious Money with Gillian Anderson, Yolanda Androzzo, Minneapolis, playing Jason in Steven Carter's adaptation of Medea called Pecong, the X Files, getting shot in both legs, Matt Scharf, Amy Pietz, Monica Trombetta, performing in Frank Galati's Goodman Theatre's production of Good Person of Setzuan with Cherry Jones, Mary Zimmerman's The Notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, Journey to the West, working for the Obama Administration, when Phylicia Rashad directed Paul's play Immediate Family at the Goodman and then Mark Taper Forum, KernoForto Productions, Wolf in Waiting with Danilo Carrera, Frederick Douglass, and finding a second home in Ireland.

Full transcript (unedited):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez.

2 (10s):
And

3 (10s):
I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand

3 (15s):
It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

0 (32s):
Podcast situation.

1 (34s):
Cause I was talking to someone else that had the same thing where they were trying to use video and it's like not working. So it's like tech, it's like nothing ever works. Like that's the other name of my solo show. It's like just nothing ever really works. Like we're always like, well, all this to say too that I have come to the conclusion that we are in the time period of in history that I am now calling the great unraveling. Okay, so we've got the great unraveling going on. Now listen, I, I think it's sad, but also the good news is at the end of the unraveling, if humankind has still made it, we can build a new sweater.

1 (1m 15s):
Do you know what I mean? Like, we're gonna have to create a

2 (1m 17s):
Gonna say, yeah, you get, you go, you keep going on that sweater and you know that there's problems, but you're like, maybe it won't look that bad.

1 (1m 27s):
And no, you have to unravel the thing at,

2 (1m 29s):
At some point you say, and there's that term, the myth of invested co.

1 (1m 37s):
Yeah, I know what you mean

2 (1m 38s):
Is, but it's like when you build, when you buy into this idea, Well I've come this far, I might as well keep going and

1 (1m 45s):
Don't keep going. So

2 (1m 46s):
Time investment. Yeah, no, sometimes

1 (1m 48s):
There's like no, there's no telling like how good it can be to just call it, just call something and be like, I'm calling it, you know, like I'm calling it and, and, and there is a tipping point of like, and I think I've told this story about my drywall holes in my apartment. The first apartment I ever had. Did I tell this story? I don't think so. Okay. This is where we are in history. We are at this point where I was, after my dad died, I lived by myself for the first time ever and I got this little apartment and I decided I was gonna put up a quote floating shelf, right? So you need to put holes in the wall and then you put Molly bolts in, they expand.

1 (2m 32s):
Okay. So, but you, but thing number one, it was like a thousand degrees. No, call it. Okay. Could have called it there. Didn't, in my apartment, no air conditioning thousand degrees. Summer, call it, I did not call it. I proceeded two investigate what your motherfucking walls are made of before you do this. Because plaster does not, it does not work out. So I started to drill holes with my molly with my drill. And I'm like, Oh, oh, that's interesting. The holes just kind of gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And I'm like, Yeah, but I just have to keep going. So I kept going and by the end, and then I had holes about the size of a tennis ball in each, and I was like, Okay, but maybe it'll still work.

1 (3m 16s):
Okay, dude, I looked around and then I moved to the shelf around. So I had multiple holes thinking it was the spot in the wall that was the pr. Oh my God, I'm alone. I don't know what's happening. I have a drill. My dad, dad left me like, I don't know what's happening. So I look around and there are chi, I'm sweating. I'm on the verge of tears and there are literally tennis ball holes all over the walls of my studio apartment. And I just think, and I, I then I stopped and I was like, okay, this is, I don't know what made me stop, but I was like, okay, this is insanity. This is the definition of insanity. Because now, yeah, the whole thing is screwed and I have to patch it all.

1 (4m 0s):
It was the biggest lesson of my life of like, wait a second, investigate before you start a project. And it reminds me of your family's project about the trains. Like how one of your kids is really good about planning and out and stuff. I am not that way and I'm learning to be more that way. So anyway,

2 (4m 20s):
Yeah, that's a part that that is I think a big part of maturing. Like I, I have the same thing. I do a lot of little crafty things, sewing and stuff like that. And the, they always tell you, measure twice and cut once. And I've ne...

Intro: Should Boz become a band manager?
Let Me Run This By You: When you ASSUME.
Interview: We talk to Sarah Charipar about playing old ladies when you're barely an adult.

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1: (00:08)
I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez and I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

Before we begin this episode? Just a little note to say there were some audio problems with this. I did the best I could fixing it up. The content is still good, but you know, sometimes things work out that way. Mercury was in retrograde or something. I'm sure. Anyway, enjoy.

Speaker 2: (00:47)
Hi. How you doing? How you doing, babe?

I stayed up pretty late. You did. Okay. I have these neighbors. Do you know? Oh my God though, that gives me flashbacks. Um, no, no, I have these neighbors, right. I adore them. Okay. They are young, you know, mid, late twenties in a band that I adore and they're trying to get me to be their manager. I don't think that's a great idea just because I don't know how to manage bands. And I am trying to work on my own career, but, but I did give them some feedback, like about how to go about their there's a great band, great kids, you know, kids 20, 27. Yeah. But still kids to me. And, um, anyway, we stayed on the w we have balconies next to each other. So we just sat out there talking while miles, miles was as long asleep at like seven, but I stayed up until nine.

Speaker 2: (01:48)
So that's late for me. Oh my gosh. I thought all this was building up to like, you stayed up till three in the morning. You got two hours of 7:00 PM. 7:00 PM. Well, he gets up at four. So, um, he goes to bed. No, I shouldn't say last night he did go to bed a little earlier, but usually it's about eight 30, eight, eight 30. It's really quite does he get up at four? Because like, that's his natural body. He likes to do that. He does his burpees. He's Mr. Kind of healthy. He does all this workout stuff and I'm just jealous. That's the reason you didn't see it. But I did like a dismissive hand gestures only because I'm jealous. That's the only reason. So, so he, so anyway, his people were farmers that's. I mean, that's what they say. Like people who are night owls probably have ancestors who were on the night watch, you know, caveman style and people who just a mosquito and people who are early risers were, I mean, I've heard, Oh, I like that. Then that I like that. That means my dad was on the Nightwatch and, uh, or just very

Speaker 3: (03:00)
Depressed and couldn't go to sleep, but, or I'm going to choose the nightmare.

Speaker 4: (03:08)
Let me run this by you.

Speaker 5: (03:15)
I recently called to tell you about, uh, a experience I had with a friend of mine, who I felt like didn't like something I had suggested to them and wasn't responding to my text message and it's, I wasn't, uh, freaked out about it. That's a step forward. And I wasn't even very worried about it, but I thought, okay, well I suggested something to this person. They didn't write me back. My assumption was that they thought it was a terrible idea and didn't want to have any part of it. And I was completely wrong because I had another conversation with this person yesterday. And like, and of course they reason they didn't write me back was completely

Speaker 3: (03:56)
Had nothing to do logical. Right. And this is

Speaker 5: (03:59)
So lesson that I can't seem to grasp that. Like my first inclination is always to say, they're mad at me. I did something wrong.

Speaker 3: (04:13)
Sure. How do I get out of that? I don't know. It's the same. So I think I have the exact same thing. Mine goes mine. It's my first instinct. And I think it's practice of look, actually what I think it is is if you go to that first thing first, which you probably, I probably will, and you probably will, the rest of your life. It's just, just part of the DNA. All right. But the process of working through it right. And getting to the point of being like acceptance of, okay. So if they are mad, okay. So if they are, they hate my guts. Okay. What then, what am I going to, how am I going to take care of myself? If this person is upset or who doesn't want to be my friend or whatever, I think that's the real, um, when of the thing is working through, working with ourselves through that process is the process versus, you know what I'm saying? Like that's the reason it comes up is to, to be worked through and not necessarily that the first instinct will go away because I don't think it will. I just think that's the way we're wired. At least I know that's the way I'm wired. And I think I it's practice of working through so that it becomes less of a whole situation. Um, and more of a, Oh yeah, I did that thing again. Okay. Well, how can I work with myself? Okay. So let me talk it through with somebody, let me, but I, you know,

Speaker 5: (05:48)
Bernie in that, and I have, I guess now that we're talking about, I guess I have come some, what of a way? I mean, cause it used to just be that I would immediately respond to that person and say like, I'm sorry, I take it back. Or, or like, I know that I know you hate me now.

Speaker 3: (06:05)
Just start crying profusely, get on the phone and say, I'm sorry, I'm so terrible. Um, and please forgive me. Yeah. Like you said, it was a, be a whole play, a drama

Speaker 5: (06:18)
And then DBT, uh, I think it was i...

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand 

1 

00:00:15

It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense 

0 

00:00:20

Of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? 

1 

00:00:31

Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. This is Gina. Welcome to our 50th five zero F episode. Today. We're going to listen back to some of our favorite interviews, some highlights from conversations that we've just adored having. Thank you to all of you who have been supporting us along the way. And I hope you enjoy a look back at some great highlight these coasts. Oh, 

2 

00:01:06

How are you doing? You know, so it's not like in your twenties, it's a wild ride, right? It's like a roller coaster. It's twists and turns and your stomach hurts and you feel like there's a liberated and you felt it. Okay. It's in middle age. It's like a, like, you're just riding one of those trolleys kind of slow and there's are like in San Francisco and there's still Hills. And sometimes it is very beautiful, but a lot of times you're just slowly crawling towards your own day. Oh, the problem is, well, to preface this, to say, this is, this is, did I ever tell you the story about how I ruined someone's surprise wedding? 

2 

00:02:01

So I cannot keep a secret like that. Like when the secret stakes are high, I, I, if you're ever, if never, so my friend, this is crazy. So my friend, my friend's Fiat boyfriend called me and said, hi, I am surprising Sarah in a wedding. She knows we're going on an adventure. We're going on a hot air balloon ride. And we're getting married in the hot air balloon. Oh God, can you come and be the witness? And I was at, first of all, I'm scared of any height. I said, okay. I said, fine. 

2 

00:02:41

So he, this was so crazy. So I kept it. I was like, okay, here it comes. And I was like, seeing her and you know, we're not friends anymore. Shockingly. So I, I were okay. Beans. So I made it, she's supposed to dress up. She doesn't know happening, but the guy who does the hot air balloon is the minister. So he also serves as the minister. It's a whole thing. People do. Okay, fine. But you need a witness. And so I'm the witness. I'm like, this is, this is terrible. So we make it, she's in a dress, like a fancy dress. I'm in a fancy whatever outfit we have to drive to the desert. 

2 

00:03:20

Right. So we're in the car. And I S I literally said, we're going. I remember it's, it's hot, it's windy. And she's excited. Nobody, you know, I sat in the backseat of her fiance or boyfriend sat in the front seat. Cause I don't know why she wanted to talk or something. I don't remember why we're both in the backseat. And I just go, I can't believe you're about to get married to the hotter. And she looked like this and he, we don't know if he I'm sure he, it was really windy. So I'm not sure if he heard, but she heard. And she looked at me and I was like, well, what the, yeah. 

2 

00:04:13

People really still think that you could be sitting at Schwab's drinking phosphate going to say, oh wow, this girl's got talent. You can tell by your sweater. That's amazing. Yeah. And then he gets into his Studebaker drives down to Mayberry and yeah. You know, it's the biggest, I mean, when I found out that that Kylie Jenner made billions of dollars from selling ugly ass lipstick, I was like, wait, what? 

2 

00:04:57

What's what's what did I do wrong? I guess that was important Kardashians. No, you weren't born a Kardashian in Calabasas, wherever the hell they live. But the other thing is my niece wanted to contribute to her. GoFund me to make her a billionaire. And I said, if you contribute to her, go fund me to put her over the billionaire mark. I will no longer speak to you. Hope you had a go fund. Me, go fund me to make her the first billionaire teenager or whatever that heck it was. Yes. She had piece of wood started GoFund me to put her over the edge. Oh, not she didn't start it. 

2 

00:05:37

Somebody started for her. Some crazy teenage girl started it to try to get, make her belly. I mean, this is what we're dealing with here. This is the, this is what we're up against. This is what we're up against. So are you shocked that that Mitch McConnell and whoever Dicky addicted are trying to know we've got this, we've this going on? Gina. Wait, I asked, sorry. I don't have to go back to this. Go fund me. Okay. So did it make money? It work? Yes. It put her over the edge, but did it go to the girl who made the GoFundMe? No. It went to Kylie Jenner, but how, if I wanted to start a GoFundMe for someone or for Meryl Streep? 

2 

00:06:24

Normally, hopefully Meryl Streep would say, you know what, I'm going to pass at. I'm going to donate the money. But I think, and I am not, I am not a hundred percent. We'd have to do the fact checking on this. I think that it put her over the edge and I'm not sure she don't look, I don't want to get sued by the Kardashians. But all I'm saying is it was like this fad thing that caught on make Kylie Jenner a billionaire. Yeah. But okay. You're living in the essential thing and essential thing that I can't wrap my brain around. It's probably really obvious to everybody, but me, if I wanted to start a fund, GoFund me from Streep. 

2 

00:07:05

How on earth would I ever tell Meryl Streep or get the money to her? I'm not going to like go to the white pages and look up Meryl Streep, and then be like, Hey, I I'm raising a bunch of cash for you. Could I have your bank account number? Or what? I mean, I don't know how GoFund me works, but right, right. I think it's because it's going to this girl, maybe it was, and I kind of hope it was, but, but it, but I think it went to her company. I think they, they, like, I don't know. I know is that it was a huge social movement about, I would say five years ago, maybe four years ago. I don't know. 

2 

00:07:46

And my niece was like, I'm going to donate. And I was like, oh my God, no, you're not. I will lay my body down in this Watertower place. We were in the water tower place in Chicago shopping. And I said, I will lay down on this floor and not leave it in front of American girl until you promise me you're not going to donate what has happened. I'm like, well, we've learned two things here at least. Right. Number one, Kylie Jenner is a cult leader. Oh yeah. Yeah. The cult of beauty. The cult of personality. Yes, yes. Yeah. 

2 

00:08:25

Yes. It could really just be the Cole about her lips. Cause it does seem to be kind of all about her lips. It is. It's true. It's true. And additionally, I am now realizing that probably what happened with that GoFund me is that Kylie Jenner paid somebody to start that she says, I'll give you 10% of whatever you raise, because I've read things about those people that they don't, they don't pay their nannies or they, they stiff. ...

Intro: Gina is totally over it. Performing chores, repetition, BOREDOM, the promise of Clubhouse.
Let Me Run This By You: Have you ever committed a crime unintentionally?
Interview: We talk to Jason Peck about studying at not one but two theatre schools - USC and Florida State University. Jason helps us compare the different conservatory experiences. Also, the trope of "breaking you down to build you up", studying alongside the likes of Leonardo DiCaprio and Maggie Gyllenhaal at the Young Actors Space as a child actor, what Jason has learned about teaching the craft of acting. Then, we talk about Eric Bogosian and the rewrites of SubUrbia that Jason was a part of.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 1: (00:08)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Are you high going out?

Speaker 2: (00:33)
There's only so much playing in the snow you can do, right. I mean, there's,

Speaker 3: (00:37)
There's only so much playing in the snow. You can do. I think we're in the phase and maybe we've always been in or been at it for a while or we're returning to it. But the phase of the self isolation where it's like, we're all kind of low key, like nothing matters. There's no point to anything. This is all just, yes, this is all just like, like I'll be doing the dishes and I'll just think like, I'm just performing this dishes act, right. Just performing the trash act. I mean, it's all like, I'm not suggesting that it would be better if we just ignored that and lived in, uh, in squalor, but at the same time, right. It's just does feel like, what are we doing?

Speaker 2: (01:21)
Yeah, it is. It is, it does feel like it's never, um, for me, I just go back and forth to different houses that aren't my house. Uh, we just keep, we keep eating. We keep going, you know, to the bathroom, it's just the same. And it's just, it just there's, uh, we need a break. We all need a break and something fun to happen because this is, this is pretty, you know? Yes. It could be worse. Yes. We're healthy, relatively speaking. And, but it's real boring. I mean, I think what you're talking about is a real deep level border Bordeaux going on.

Speaker 3: (01:59)
One of the things, one of the States of being that I dislike the most is being bored, but ha but having a lot to do. Yeah. Like having a lot of tasks on my plate. Um, and I should say, I mean, I am finding things to keep me stimulated. I'm not entirely bored. I can say that there's was a good portion of my life since living here. Well, even, maybe before, uh, where I was extremely busy working really hard and just so bored because nothing was feeding me creatively, whatever intellectually. So thank God for this venture between us. Thank God for a clubhouse, which I'm addicted to.

Speaker 2: (02:56)
Okay. Close, cut. Cause everyone I'm seeing in all my forum, like all of the pages, I'm a part of online, like, right. Like I'm a part of some writer's groups. I'm a part of some women's Facebook thing. Everyone is going on clubhouse now. So I'm once our, after our interview today, I'm going to T-Mobile and get my, and get my iPhone. Good.

Speaker 4: (03:15)
Oh, I'm so excited for you. Yeah, you're gonna, I mean, it's like a blessing and a curse it's w if you're like me, you'll get on it and then it's hard to get, it's hard to get off of it. Um, but it's amazing because, and I've been saying this so much recently, but it's still true. It's amazing because it's talking about boring. Part of what's boring about social media is that you're just seeing so much of people's self curated self image, and you never know like what to believe about what the person is presenting to you. And in this case, I mean, I'm certain, there are ways that people can filter themselves on this app too. But for how it is for right now for me is it's only people's voices.

Speaker 4: (04:12)
So there's, to me, there's nothing to hide behind. I mean, you're hiding because you don't have to, we don't have to see your face, but, but to me, like the value of a person is not in their face, it's in their minds. And you know, not, not to say like they have to be intellectual or anything like that. I'm just saying like P people's perspective. People's thoughts about the world. That's, what's compelling to me about other people or not compelling to me about other people as the case may be and what you find on, on clubhouses people. And, and don't get me wrong. There's plenty of, I was saying to somebody last night, so far, I can identify a few different tiers or, or categories of people. And it's same thing as true on any other social media platform. But, um, there's the internet hustlers, the people who are trying to make a buck, the life coaches, the preneurs, the venture, you know, so there's that whole side of things. Then there's, you know, people who, and this may be a lot, a lot of, a lot of us people who are, have been so socially isolated, that they're just longing for human connection. Um, and I forgot where I was going.

Speaker 2: (05:25)
That's okay. But there's different tiers of people. So like, so there's different categories of like, who who's trying to do, what on there.

Speaker 4: (05:33)
Right. Who's trying to do what, and, and, and the, the, the category that I'm finding myself attracted to is something that I really have not done very much of in my life, which is trying to synthesize different worlds together. So like, there's a lot of tech people on t...

*program note: Unfortunately, we were unable to record the audio for this podcast in the usual way so you will notice diminished sound quality. Apologies for the annoyance.

Intro: Fenty, plastic surgery, self-acceptance, Wild Wild Country, Paris Hilton, the Donner Party, where do you stand on documentaries?, feeling trapped.
Let Me Run This By You: letting go of unnecessary shame
Interview: We talk to Lee Kirk. The power of TTS marketing department, not getting movement to music, juggling too many things mentally as an actor, being young and playing old, being stuck in your head, how Lee got into writing, writing teacher John Truby , John Cabrera and a certain Panasonic DVX, The Man Who Invented the Moon, the horrors of auditioning, writing his own showcase piece, Sean Gunn's The Dumbwaiter, learning life lessons at the Chopin Theatre, directing for film and TV, The Giant Mechanical Man, site-specific theatre, feeling the heat in Avcollie's class, Acting with a capital A, Black Box Academy, and well-intentioned G.O.D. Squad parties.

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1: (00:08)
And Jen Bosworth wrote me this and I'm Gina [inaudible]. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

Speaker 2: (00:36)
You know, I look at, I'm sure there's like rubbing alcohol in there and

Speaker 3: (00:40)
That's one of their tricks is they make everything look like it comes out of a doctor.

Speaker 2: (00:45)
So people are like, Ooh, I'm going to get no bow tie. You know, I was thinking like, my agents keeps sending me. They send everybody, it's not just me like injectable auditions, which I never take because I hate, I have these lines, you know, like right there. My uncle really has them too. And anyway, I got them from my mom and I was like, maybe a little Botox, but the problem with Botox is like anything it's addictive as hell. So like, clearly if you look at people, they start with one little thing. Right. And then they're like, Oh, Oh, but over here. Oh, but here. And then they ended up looking like that.

Speaker 3: (01:21)
You know what I, what I, I also think about that. Um, you do it. I think people do it because they, they want to look younger, whether it's injectables or fillers or, um, having surgery. I think what ends up happening even to people who profess that they really like that. Look in addition to the fact that people all start to look the same, um, P people stop looking like themselves. And it's very disconcerting to be interacting with somebody who you knew to look one way and now they don't look like themselves. So in a way, it doesn't matter how smooth your skin is or because if you don't look like you, then it hasn't worked. Right.

Speaker 2: (02:08)
Right. And then it, and then it's very hard to have normal interactions. I told you how my friend didn't recognize her own mother after. Oh my God. So my friend, my friend used to, she's not really my friend anymore, but anyway, and she, she went to her sister's wedding and her mother had, had so much, and she hadn't seen her mother in a year and her mother had, had so much plastic surgery. Then when her mother was walking her sister down the aisle, she didn't recognize she didn't, she couldn't tell if it was her own mother. Oh my God. Like, it's, it looks like, kind of like my mom, but can you imagine that I would have a panic attack and pass out if that, if I didn't recognize my own mother.

Speaker 3: (02:50)
Yeah. That's like invasion of the body snatcher.

Speaker 2: (02:53)
You said it was the me, I think that's my mom. Oh my God. That's horrible. We all really

Speaker 3: (03:00)
Just need to like work on self-acceptance. That's the most beautiful thing. I mean, not to sound cheesy, but like that, if you really, and this is true for me personally, if I feel good, I look good. If I don't feel good, I don't look good. It's very straightforward. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (03:16)
Yeah. And it's yeah. And it's, it's not, um, God, I think we are so it's so simple. And yet people, we, we, we loved like, like our guests, Shana was saying, we love to be a mess. We'd love to make things more complicated than they are. We'd love to really get in there. And it ha we have to be this huge ordeal instead of just saying, Oh, let me work on self-acceptance. Um, and that brings me to I've I just was watching wild, wild country.

Speaker 3: (03:46)
Yeah. Tell us. Okay.

Speaker 2: (03:48)
Okay. So I was trying to watch the Paris Hilton one, but I couldn't watch a skinny person. I just was like, I can't watch the skinny person. So let me watch.

Speaker 3: (

Intro: Jen has achieved nirvana: she looks like a serial killer! Farsightedness, migraines, deep work in therapy, all families need case management, Gina navigates an interpersonal conflict in a way that she wouldn't mind if anyone on Twitter read about it.
Let Me Run This By You: Is Adam McKay turning into Michael Moore? Don't Look Up, The Big Short, 
Interview: We talk to Joel Butler about stage management, Blue Man Group, and the benefits of saying no to the actor's life.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth Ramirez and I'm Gina Pulice . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I can see, I can see, which is so brilliant. You know, like that's important. I didn't realize like, oh my God, I can see you. And my glasses are the same glasses that Jeffrey Dahmer has like, and that wasn't an accident.

1 (49s):
I was gonna say, Dwight Schrute, very similar, a similar style. And I got blue blocker and the anti-glare. So like you, can't straight up just see the screens in my eyeballs, you know, that's good. I can see the most important thing. Like I realized I was living like this. And did you have a headache all the time? And the saddest thing happened at the, at the doctor's office. I mean, sorry. I'm rustling. Okay. The saddest thing happens that wasn't really sad, but so my doctor, my ophthalmologist was this lovely woman. She looked like she was about 12. Like literally, she was like the teeniest loveliest woman. Anyway, she was like, have you had headaches your whole life?

1 (1m 32s):
I'm like, yeah, migraines. And she goes, and I said, and she made this face. You can't our listeners can't see it. I said, what? She goes your period. She said your parents should have taken it. You've been, you've been farsighted for your whole life. You're kidding me. And did you ever go to the eye doctor? And I said, no. They always just relied on the school to see if I could see the Blackboard. And I can see far, I can't see close. She said those migraines may have been like 50% glass. You just needed glasses or you

2 (2m 3s):
Raged.

1 (2m 4s):
You know, it's been a lot of rage lately. And a lot of sadness I've been doing a lot of deep work in therapy and the sadness to the neglect it to the level of neglect. Then I, now I'm realizing that I experienced is, is quite something like, I was like, what? And she goes, she goes, how old are you? And I said, 46. And she goes, when did this? I said, I started having migraines at five. She goes, and they never took you to the eye doctor. And she's like, that is so sad. She was like, she could tell in her face, she was like, oh, that's abusive. Like, she was like, what did they give you for your headaches? I'm like nothing because ibuprofen didn't work. She goes, well, of course, it's not going to work.

1 (2m 45s):
If it's an eye problem, it's also not going to work. I'd be profaned. It's not going to hit.

2 (2m 50s):
Okay. I, I, I, I'm not, I really don't mean to make, make this about me. But when you're telling me this story, I'm imagining how I would feel as you. And I asked you if you felt rage. But then I realized the thing that I would be feeling is embarrassed. Like it was my fault. I was neglected. Okay. You didn't have

1 (3m 11s):
No, I don't have that feeling that it was my fault. I was neglected. I have the feeling of, oh, these like, it is rage. And it's like, oh, they should've probably been chastised. If not given like some kind of ticket, you know, like a ticket from the police saying,

2 (3m 27s):
And we need to have tickets for parents. I, I, back that Eve herself. I'd love to be fine. I'd love for somebody to say, oh, you sent in Oreos with lunch. That's a fine, that's a, that's just like a $3 fine, but still don't, don't send it in Oreos with lunch. I mean, I don't ever do that because I don't send in lunch because I pay for lunch. Right. But the idea being we need, I guess the reason I'm being cheeky, but I guess the reason I'm saying is like, everybody needs to be held accountable. And sometimes we need external means of being held accountable.

1 (3m 59s):
You know, I was talking with my therapist and I really, the feeling is like, someone should have stepped in and said, okay, this family needs help. Like you, you need help like you, but here's the thing. Like, we looked so good from the outside. In so many ways, we had an immigrant success story, right. We had a father who wasn't abusive. We had a, in, in physically abusive in any way or sexually, we had a mom who, you know, we had good-looking, you know, my sister was like really, really above average in all ways. So like, it's so hard. And I know, and I think this is what made the movie, this show addressed.

1 (4m 40s):
It's so hard when a package looks a certain way for us, same with serial killers for us to wrap our head around the fact that something very bad is going on. And we don't want to believe it because it looked so pretty or, or didn't look ugly. Let's just say that. And it's it's, it's it? That is the, the feeling that I've had in therapy recently. It's just that I just long for someone rationally, a rational human being, Tufts stepped in and said, okay, this family needs help. Like, how can we help this family? Like, she's not getting eyeglasses, whether it's, you know, a money thing or, or not wanting to spend the money, or if it's just a, like an oversight overwhelmed.

1 (5m 25s):
My mom was totally overwhelmed with my father was underperforming. Like let's get in there and really try to make a care plan. Or like we needed a case manager, you know, and most families do need some kind of case management in, even if it's light, you know,

2 (5m 43s):
All families do. Do they have that in countries where they have socialized medicine? I bet not. I bet that that's a bridge too far, but I mean a school counselor, I guess, theoretically is supposed to do that. But a school counselor has literally hundreds of students in there, and

1 (5m 58s):
They're not worried about worry about a kid that looks well fed. Isn't ha doesn't have bruises and just literally has headaches. Like that's not a real problem.

2 (6m 8s):
Another example of where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Like imagine literally I don't mean to be a whatever overblown about it, but imagine how different your life might've been.

1 (6m 20s):
Yeah. I mean, I was, I had migraines from five years old. I was barfing and like, no one. And I actually didn't actually go to the doctor for them. Cause I think my mom was like, no, that's not a real problem. Like I never went to the doctor until I was 21 for them. And then they did a brain scan and they, they said, no, your brain is fine. And then they just said, it's hormones, which they always say to women. And no one ever said, maybe you're having you need glasses. This is crazy. It's crazy to me. So I'm, I'm grateful. I have them. They're like, they're like changing my, my world in terms of, yeah. I mean, what the fuck? And I chose on purpose to get like the same thing.

1 (7m 2s):
Jeffrey Dahmer has

2 (7m 4s):
Works for you. It really works for, I dunno, maybe it's having to do with the shape of you...

Intro: Boz deserves a seat at the table, life coaches, let's be direct
Let Me Run This By You: Gina versus plots - is it just ADD?
Interview: We talk to Kate Dugan about living in Morocco, her playwriting program,  Sandy Shinner, Victory Gardens, shooting yourself in the foot, being ready or not to take advantage of opportunities, Outliers, regret, Sandra Delgado, the Bad Boyfriend years, Austin Film Festival, Ola Rotimi, Actor's Training Center, Meisner, Erica Daniels, Bikram yoga
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Not a whole hell of a lot. I mean, I'm, I feel I'm right. I just real, really excited to like level up my, my work life game. Like, it doesn't even mean that I, it just means that, like, I actually feel like an adult, like I just feel at 47 right now.

1 (55s):
I'm 47. I feel at 47. Like I'm ready. Oh girl. Wait, am I 40? No, I had a birthday. October four. Yeah. You turned 40 you're you're you're desperate to be older apparently. Oh, I've been telling people 47. Okay. So what year were you born? 75, but I'm terrible at math for 46 years. Okay. So what was I saying about being the wrong age? Oh, I just feel like at 46, right? That's my age at 46. I am finally ready to get a job, like, okay. I need a writing job, like a, B a real job, a real job of like, of like, I feel like I finally deserve, I just, I'm starting to feel like I finally deserve a seat at the table.

1 (1m 47s):
I love that. Yeah, I definitely do. Yeah. I mean, I just do deserve it, but like the world needs for you to have that seat at the table. Thank you. And I finally feel like that is a possibility, you know, it's interesting. And I was going to ask you about this. So there are all these Clem coaches in Los Angeles. Oh, that's funny. I was going to ask you if something about coaches, but go ahead. Okay, great. So, so God bless him and I can just see everyone is really trying to earn a living, right? So like, everyone I meet is trying to help. I know a lot of hustlers, right?

1 (2m 28s):
So coaches now have this language. It's fantastic. First time a coach uses language with me. I thought it was so cool. And I was so special. They all fucking use this language. Good ones, bad ones, whatever. Okay. So they get to the part. I had a free introductory session with a woman who was wonderful, nothing wrong with her. I'm talking about specific coaching language around payment and charging people talking about the fee. Okay. So therapists my in my, you know, the way it was, well, I also worked for a social service agency. So I could like just people please, my way out of it and say, well, the agency charges this, you know, all of this. Okay.

1 (3m 8s):
But for all the people I've seen as therapists, they're pretty straightforward. They're like, my fee is 180 an hour. This is how much your copay would. I looked up your insurance, whatever coaches have a whole nother situation where they say things like, I don't usually do this. This is what they say more than one coach say this to me. I don't usually do this, but I'm going to do something I don't normally do, which is I'm gonna let you set your fee. How much is this worth to you?

2 (3m 36s):
Oh God. Oh fuck you. What kind

1 (3m 39s):
Of invest?

2 (3m 40s):
$7 and 50 cents.

1 (3m 42s):
What kind of investment are you willing to make in your future? Whatever, whatever they get. And then

2 (3m 51s):
If you low ball it, it's like, well, I guess you're not recommend it to your future,

1 (3m 54s):
Right. Or, and you must not value. You must not yet. Right? You must not think that you're abundant enough to bring it the way. So the first time someone said this to me, I was like, this is brilliant. Like I totally, and I bought in and I was like, and I, and, and I didn't know. I was like, okay, you know, $80 a session. And then she later, and then we did that for a while later, she told me that she charges like $2,000 for, oh my God. Like a packet. And I was like, what? Okay, so right. Okay. This person did not do this the other day. I had a free introductory session. And she said that, you know, when she's a woman of color and I really adore her, but it was the same language.

1 (4m 38s):
And it's not, it's what they're trained to say. And so I just am, so I was so naive. I thought this was like such a cool thing. And now I'm like, wait, everyone's using the same thing, which is, I'm going to let you set your fee to tell me how much you are invested in yourself. And I'm like, wait, that's manipulative. Just set your fucking fee. And if I just said fan, and if I don't pay it, I don't pay it. And we don't work together because otherwise

2 (5m 7s):
You're setting up the road. I mean, setting up the dynamic where somebody is going to feel resentful, right? Like if, if you're the coach and you're not charging what you, what you think you're. I mean, what about that? Why wouldn't you turn it back on them and say like, well, I really rely upon providers to tell me what they think they're worth by having an established fee. I mean, this is, it's so crazy. It's, it's like saying actually I've had this before with, I can't think maybe babysitters, like how much you charge. Well, whatever you feel comfortable with, I don't know what to do with that. Like, I mean, I feel comfortable paying you nothing. Does that mean that's what you want to,

1 (5m 48s):
Right? This is what we get in trouble with when, whenever there's a barter situation as well. Like I remember, oh my God, my dad is a anyway. I remember a psychologist getting into huge trouble at a friend, my dad's friend for bartering with therapy.

2 (6m 7s):
Oh my God. Like, make me homemade tofu or something like

1 (6m 11s):
Similar, like out, like you do my yard work. I'll do. I mean, I mean, like you get into trouble. It leads to trouble. I think it's better to be out of vagueness, set your fee and not, and just say, this is my fee. And if someone wants to have a conversation about the fee and do you lower it, and then you have a further conversation, whether you decide to lower it or not is up to you. But like, yeah, I don't like this, this,

2 (6m 39s):
No. And let's just be direct. I mean, this is another problem that we have, like with just, I don't know, globally with communication. I just feel like people are so darn indirect and it doesn't help. I'm not, I'm not suggesting that like, I can't use more, you know, finesse or be half softer or whatever. But like at the end of the day, I just want to know what it is. You're trying to say to me, you know, and I don't want to guess about it because I'm going to guess wrong. And then you're going to feel a type of way about it. And it's unnecessary.

1 (7m 12s):
It's unnecessary. And I do, you know, as much as, as much as I, I always think back, I had a therapist at the, at Austin Riggs in Massachusetts and Stockbridge and Dr. Craig Pierce. Right. And he, it was interesting. I...

*program note: this episode was recorded two months ago and avid listeners of ISTS may note that we discuss things on the episode chronologically for the first time but that would be followed by subsequent conversations that are in episodes that have already aired* (whew that was a confusing sentence to write)
Intro: Biopics are not for the living.
Let Me Run This By You: Love languages and a pharmacy apparel update.
Interview: We talk to Mary Kay Cook about being a working child actor, not finding bliss in LA, helping Nick Bowling with his scenic project, Epsom Downs, The Roar of the Greasepaint the Smell of the Crowd, Desdemona, The Women, Macbeth, being the Tampax girl, Early Edition, Stir of Echoes, and making the transition to producing. 

Intro: Gina and Jen talk pitch decks, learning new skill sets, Circle of Confusion Fellowship, the conundrum of praise, query letters, literary management, and negging.
Let Me Run This By You: codependency, why is it always our job to protect assholes?, invalidation, fear of conflict. Also, Heaven's Gate, Wild Wild Country, post-pandemic travel plans, and LA Influencers.
Interview: We talk to Nick Bowling! Dreams of Gene Kelly, "determining your path", The Lesson, Free Will and Wanton Lust, Mother Courage and Her Children, Kevin Hagan, Tristan and Isolde, building an ice moon with hot burning plastic in a classroom filled with water directly above a computer lab, Mary Zimmerman, Timeline Theatre, The Killing Game, Glascott's, antiques, Pat Tiedemann, PJ Powers, Brock Goldberg. Juliet Hart, John Guare, playing head games as a director, mentorship, Conner Wilson, History Boys, Joe Slowik, and  Jim Ostholthoff.

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Sad for you that you're not in the neck. You're not in your little pod. No, I'm not saying, oh, you mean at the Al yeah. Co-working oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's a whole shit show. Like I, you know, it was interesting because I thought they're really lax about masks here.

1 (51s):
So, and I thought, you know, that's not going to go well, like the there's this thing in Pasedena where, and maybe I might be making all this up, but I think I'm right. That it's like a real sort of old school. Right. Wingy kind of a place. And like, and like, and like, it was a sundown town, so, which means, okay, so black people could not be out after sundown up until like 1960. That was literally a law. I I'm pretty sure there was a, like a law it's bad. So there's a lot of them, if you look it up online, there's a lot of these towns in, in the country, but like, yeah, yeah.

1 (1m 36s):
For, for, and they, of course, I'm sure they said it was for the safety of the black people. You know what I mean? Some garbage ass racist and they're not wrong, but it's only because the white people were killing them. I mean, like that's that's they were in danger. So anyway, anyway, that there's a trickle down effect, like yeah, for sure. And then I was like, oh, and I was talking in Spanish to the, to the woman who cleans. And I was like, you know, we were talking about it. And like, my Spanish is probably like at seven seven-year-old level, but I can glean what she was saying, which was her bosses told her not to wear a mask at the cleaning play, like while she was cleaning, because it made people uncomfortable.

1 (2m 25s):
And she was like, no way, because she almost, she lost, she said her husband and her kids all had COVID and she did two back in back a year ago. And so after that, she was like, I'm wearing a mask anyway. So now, so two people that had it reported, I mean, who knows what really went down, but two people upstairs in the w they were upstairs in like a suite, the people you can rent, like a legit office there. And so like, so it wasn't downstairs. I don't care. We share coffee, we share all the common areas. Okay. And then I started getting this massive headache and I was like, oh, like, but I always get migraine. So who knows? Right. And then my throat was hurting and I was like, oh, okay.

1 (3m 5s):
Oh my gosh. So I got a test, but here's the thing because of the surge, you it's, there's like, it's really hard to get a proper test, not a rapid test. I mean, you can get a rapid test for 25 bucks at Walgreens. The shit is like 50%, like right on. If you get a positive that's right on. But if you get a negative, it's a 50% chance with a rapid test. I was reading that it's that it's wrong. So that you think you're, you're negative and you're really positive. It's just like, we can't do anything. Right. Right. So it's like, so there's, so I did my PCR and I had to wait forever and that's okay in the car or whatever.

1 (3m 45s):
And then they were like, look, it's going to take a really long time to get your results because we basically, we thought we were done with this. And now I'm like, oh my God, they're having to scramble to get people and get people to read the labs. Yeah. Anyway, I'm negative. I don't have COVID praise Jesus. Hey. Cause I was like, yeah, but I don't think I told you this. My niece has COVID in Chicago. No, no, no. That's my cousin. Oh, your niece. Oh no. Mia. 17 year old Mia has COVID because kids at our school had it and got were, and she was, I think, got it from them.

1 (4m 26s):
And then now she has it. And she had, you know, it was scary. She's backs, but not boosted because there wasn't enough time between her vaccine. Okay. So she had a fever of 103.5 Bakst with this variant it's it's the variant. And they think, I think I remember telling me when you were in Chicago and, and she was hanging out with her friends and you were like, I can't really hang out inside with you because you've been just, they just teenagers and they don't, you know, they don't give a shit. Understandably. They're thinking about college and like, you know, she, she she's D anyway, it's not shocking that she got it.

1 (5m 10s):
Also Evanston, you know, my Alma mater Evanston township high school had 120 students in one day after Thanksgiving, get COVID test positive for COVID. Wow. So they're there. They're back online. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm just waiting for that to happen here. I'm sure it's going to happen at any point. All right. So I'm healthy. I'm healthy. I'm I'm relatively happy. I, yeah. So that's, what's going on with me. How are things over there on the east side of the world? Things are cold frigid, frosty, bitter, but we just, isn't going to get better.

1 (5m 55s):
Desolate today is somewhat of a good day because today is the shortest day of the year, which means after today, the days will begin to get longer, which I've just like, whew, thank goodness for that. For a lot of people, people were sad and not even people with sad that the solstice is like really important for a lot of press, but one of them is that there's more hope after today, a hundred percent. Speaking of that, you know, I also notice that this is the time of year where a lot of people die, you know, because I don't know why. I've just always noticed that like the end of December, a lot of people die and somebody that I was, I mean, we weren't close or anything, but I was friends with somebody who only in the summer, I wanna say, found out that she had bone, bone marrow cancer.

1 (6m 52s):
Is that leukemia. I mean, there's all kinds of blood cancers, but yeah. And anyway, she died yesterday and she has, so I don't know exactly. Maybe she was in her early sixties. So young, young, her, you know, she has anyway, she was a brilliant writer. And yeah, last night I was reflecting on the fact that I've said on this podcast, I'm not afraid of death. And recently I'm like, Hmm. Right. Rethinking this. And I, and I, but I did say at the time, I'm sure it's just because I haven't really had to deal that much with it.

1 (7m 33s):
You know, like my own before I own home. But then my sister died and she left no trace essentially minus her two beautiful children and people just start dying. I just re I remember in, you know, when I was in my twenties and people who are in their fifties and sixties were constantly going to funerals, I was just like, oh my God. You know? And I, somehow I chalked it up to that's you, you're weird. You're right. Instead of this is just what happens now. Right. I'm not ready for it. I'm not ready to just have a bunch of people die.

1 (8m 15s):
I'm going to say maybe that's what it is. I'm more afraid of other people dying. Like I, okay. Let's unpack this in the last month. I've been afraid of you dying three times and they're serious way. The first time was when you went to San Francisco and there was like this one period of time. I mean, it was probably like a couple of hours. Oh yeah. We were supposed to have a call. Well, are we actually, it's just that you normally text me back right away. And this time I didn't. And I just decided that you were, I decided that you went to San Francisco and somebody murdered you. Like, I, I couldn't be, I couldn't be shaken that.

1 (8m 56s):
Then when you told me you were sick, I was like, oh my gosh, she's going to get COVID and die. And then one other time, I can't remember the other time was, why am I, well, I mean, when my ovary, my ovary, when we thought I ...

Intro: Boz's brain hurts, Ozark, the ordinariness of crime, drug running in Tijuana, Molly, Jerry Harris and Season 2 of Cheer, unpleasant surprises
Let Me Run This By You: I didn't do anything wrong.
Interview: We talk to Carolyn Hoerdemann about Steppenwolf's From The Page to The Stage, John C. Reilly, tenacity, hyper-empaths, Oscar Wilde's fairy tales, Tarrell Alvin McCraney, feminist theatre, Pump Boys and Dinettes, Faith Wilding, Rob Chambers' Bagdad Cafe, Ominous Clam, Zak Orth, Good Person of Szechwan, European Repertory's production of Agamemnon, Danny Mastrogiorgio, Michael Moore's Roger & Me, Chicago Shakespeare Theater, the anti-memoir memoir, and Ann Dowd.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I have a place to go to do with, it's not my one bedroom with my dog and my husband, but it's still a lot of work, like an and so, and then on top of that, I mean, I just feel like literally, you know what, I texted you yesterday and you said you knew the feeling like my brain is hurting me, but not in a bad way.

1 (50s):
I don't have a headache. Like I don't, I just was, you know, telling our couple surface, like, I feel like I can literally hear my brain turning and growing and groaning and like working. I've never had that feeling before in my life, which is weird. But like that, that feeling of, oh, I'm doing or knowing that what it was, what it was like, I'm doing a lot of work, you know, like my brain is doing so ridiculous, but that's how I feel, but it's all like, it, it doesn't feel, you know, what it is. I'm used to doing a lot of physical work.

1 (1m 32s):
Like I'm used to my body doing a lot of work. Like whether it's, you know, like the jobs I've had, like even the jobs that I, when I was a therapist account, you know, a counselor at social services, like I spent a lot of my time, like moving cases of diet Coke and cause we were in like a halfway house. So like I did a lot of manual labor and lot and case management and case management management is a lot of manual labor, like taking clients to appointments. And like, so when using my brain now in this different way, like literally I wished I would have been a camera on me when I was redoing my resume and cover letter specifically for the ad industry, because it is like making something out of nothing and also using words to like basically, you know, trick people, not trick people, but you know, get them to think what you want them to think.

1 (2m 27s):
And you think, oh, well she's, you know, television writing. The thing about that is like, you can make up anything like television writing really. You can really say, and then pigs flew out of his asshole and then people are like, oh, that's a weird show. But when you're trying to sell yourself to a particular industry with a particular set of skills, trying to make your skills meld into the skills they want, I was like, I couldn't see. After a while I was like, I don't even know what this, like using words like in this space, you leave space is a big word now.

2 (2m 59s):
So Metta that you are selling yourself to an advertising

1 (3m 8s):
Up girl.

2 (3m 10s):
So the PR how I understand it is there is somebody affiliated with this that is an advocate of yours, a champion of yours. And she wants, she wants you in that industry.

1 (3m 23s):
Okay. Yes, you are understanding. And there's like multiple things here. So she's, she's a screenwriter that I met and she continued on with the master's program. But her big job is her. Her day job is she's like a creative director at an ad agency in the, in the copy department. Right? So she's a big wig and she edits, she's like, she's the big editor there right at this. And I guess they hop around from agency to agency. Look, I don't know how it works, but so she started this new job and she's like, I want you to come work in the copyright. She also gets a very large bonus for every person that comes on that she refers, which I good look, do what you need to do.

1 (4m 6s):
But I think it's like five grand per person that she brings. I that's what I'm led to believe from the website. So anyway, there's like a, and so she literally Gina. So I sent her my updated resume and cover letter letter looked great. And then she applied me for 30 jobs. So then I have two.

2 (4m 27s):
Wow.

1 (4m 29s):
So which sounds great, which is awesome. Copywriting, all different kinds of copywriting. But for each of those jobs, I have to fill out demographic form. So last night I literally was up after myself tapes one self-tape last night clicking. I am not a veteran. Yes, I am Latina. No, I'm not disabled

2 (4m 53s):
Online. I was going to say, why don't they have one form, but it's

1 (4m 58s):
Yeah. It's a different job number. Right? So like every time, oh my God. So then, and sign, you have to sign every, so I literally was like, by the time I went to that, my brain, I was like, what? I'm not a veteran. I'm not a veteran like that. I was like mumbling to myself. And so, so, but I have to say like, you know, it's a good skill to build for. Like, I think that thing about, we only use 5% of our brain. They they've like debunked that right. They've said like that. You can't, but I'm telling you my brain, just like the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day. My brain is like literally growing three side.

1 (5m 41s):
I don't know if it's three sizes, but it's, I can feel my, my, my like pathways changing in terms of the skills that I'm using. So that's great. You know,

2 (5m 51s):
I don't know. I mean, it can't be bad. Nothing. The good news is all of this work you're doing can't lead to anything bad to something. Yeah. Not illegal, You know, honestly, it's really saying something. I finally started watching Ozark. Oh God. And I, what strikes me about it is like, oh, this is not, it's not that this could happen to anybody, but you just think about like how ordinary crime really can be, you know, and how criminals aren't all in a layer or living in a way it's just, it's just moms and dads and, and pe...

Intro: NASA needs a producer, Copernicus, Don Knotts, Barney Fife, Monsters, Quentin Tarantino, Django Unchained, Shaft, 
Interview: We talk to Lennon Parham about growing up in Georgia, playing quirky characters, getting a taste for theater, soaking up all the non-performance aspects of theatre, improv, Upright Citizens Brigade, Pete Holmes, applying to Juilliard, doing Teach for America in Greenville Mississippi, auditioning for Veep with Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Armando Iannucci, callbacks, Playing House, Jack McBrayer, Jason Mantzoukas,  Betsy Capes, the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, Jessica St. Clair, Best Friends Forever, the undeniable draw of having fun.

Intro: Sometimes the little guy just doesn't cut it.
Let Me Run This By You: Time's a wastin' - giddyup, beggars and choosers.
Interview: We talk to star of Parks and Recreation, Easter Sunday, and Barry - Rodney To about Chicago, Marquette University, Lane Tech,  getting discovered while pursuing a Chemistry degree, The Blues Brothers, Dürrenmatt's The Physicists, playing children well into adulthood, interning at Milwaukee Rep, Lifeline Theatre, Steppenwolf, doing live industrials for Arthur Anderson, Asian American actors and their representation in the media, IAMA Theatre Company, Kate Burton, and faking a Singaporean accent.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth RAMIREZ

2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand

2 (15s):
It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (30s):
How's your, how's your eighties decor going for your

1 (35s):
New house? Okay, well we closed yesterday. Well,

2 (39s):
Congratulations.

1 (40s):
Thank you. House buying is so weird. Like we close, we funded yesterday, but we can't record till today because my lender like totally dropped the ball. So like, here's the thing. Sometimes when you wanna support like a small, I mean small, I don't know, like a small bank, like I really liked the guy who is the mortgage guy and he has his own bank and all these things. I don't even, how know how this shit works. It's like, but anyway, they were so like, it was a real debacle. It was a real, real Shannon situation about how they, anyway, my money was in the bank in escrow on Friday.

1 (1m 20s):
Their money that they're lending us, which we're paying in fucking fuck load of interest on is they couldn't get it together. And I was like, Oh no.

2 (1m 29s):
They're like, We have to look through the couch cushions,

1 (1m 31s):
Right? That's what it felt like, Gina. It felt like these motherfuckers were like, Oh shit, we didn't actually think this was gonna happen or something. And so I talked to escrow, my friend Fran and escrow, you know, I make friends with the, with the older ladies and, and she was like, I don't wanna talk bad about your lender, but like, whoa. And I was like, Fran, Fran, I had to really lay down the law yesterday and I needed my office mate, Eileen to be witness to when I did because I didn't really wanna get too crazy, but I also needed to get a little crazy. And I was like, Listen, what you're asking for, and it was true, does not exist. They needed one. It was, it was like being in the, in the show severance mixed with the show succession, mixed with, it was like all the shows where you're just like, No, no, what you're asking for doesn't exist and you wanna document to look a certain way.

1 (2m 25s):
And Chase Bank doesn't do a document that way. And she's like, Well she said, I don't CH bank at Chase, so I don't know. And I said, Listen, I don't care where you bank ma'am, I don't care. But this is Chase Bank. It happens to be a very popular bank. So I'm assuming other people have checking accounts that you deal with at Chase. What I'm telling, she wanted me to get up and go to Chase Bank in person and get a printout of a certain statement period with an http on the bottom. She didn't know what she was talking about. She didn't know what she was talking about. And she was like, 18, 18. And I said, Oh ma'am, if you could get this loan funded in the next, cuz we have to do it by 11, that would be really, really dope.

1 (3m 6s):
I'm gonna hang up now before I say something very bad. And then I hung up.

2 (3m 10s):
Right, Right. Yeah. Oh my God, I know. It's the worst kind of help. And regarding like wanting to support smaller businesses, I what, that is such a horrible sadness. There's, there's no sadness. Like the sadness of really investing in the little guy and having it. That was my experience. My big experience with that was going, having a midwife, you know, with my first child. And I really, I was in that whole thing of that, that time was like, oh, birth is too medicalized. And you know, even though my husband was a doctor, like fuck the fuck the medical establishment we're just, but but didn't wanna, like, I didn't wanna go, as my daughter would say, I didn't wanna be one of those people who, what did she say?

2 (3m 52s):
You know, one of those people who carry rocks to make them feel better.

1 (3m 57s):
That's amazing. Super.

2 (4m 0s):
So I didn't wanna go so far as to be one of those rock carrying people to have the birth at my house, but at the same time I really wanted to have this midwife and then there was a problem and she wasn't equipped to deal with it. And it was,

1 (4m 11s):
I was there,

2 (4m 13s):
Fyi. Yes, you were

1 (4m 15s):
The first one, right? For your first one.

2 (4m 16s):
The first one.

1 (4m 18s):
Here's the thing you're talking about this, I don't even remember her ass. What I, she, I don't remember nothing about her. If you had told me you didn't have one, I'd be like, Yeah, you didn't have one. I remember the problem and I remember them having to get the big, the big doctor and I remember a lot of blood and I remember thinking, Oh thank God there's this doctor they got from down the hall to come or wherever the hell they were and take care of this problem because this gene is gonna bleed out right here. And none of us know what to do.

2 (4m 50s):
Yes. I will never forget the look on your face. You and Erin looking at each other trying to do that thing where you're like, It's fine, it's fine. But you're such a bad liar that, that I could, I just took one look at you. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm gonna fucking bleed out right here. And Aaron's going, No, no, no, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool. And then of course he was born on July 25th and all residents start their residency on July 1st. So you know, you really don't wanna have a baby or have surgery in July cuz you're getting at a teaching hospital cuz you're getting a lot of residents. And this woman comes in as I'm bleeding and everything is going crazy and I haven't even had a chance to hold my baby yet. And she comes up to me and she says, Oh cuz the, the midwife ran out of lidocaine. There was no lidocaine.

2 (5m 30s):
That's right. They were trying to sew me up without lidocaine. And so this nurse comes in, she puts her hand on my shoulder, she says, Hi, I'm Dr. Woo and I'm, and I said, Dr. W do you have any lidocaine? I need some lidocaine stat right up in there. Gimme some lidocaine baby. A...

Intro: Gina ordered her theatre school transcripts
Let Me Run This By You: knowing when to let go, moments of clarity
Interview: We talk to Ammar Daraiseh about being an MFA, homesickness, Joe Slowik and Bella Itkin, Joe Mantegna, type casting, being a middle eastern actor, Sweet Smell of Success, film noir.
www.ammardaraiseh.com - there is where you can watch Ammar's acting reel and my short films he produced 

www.karenkanas.com - Ammar's wife's website

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school

1 (12s):
Together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later,

2 (16s):
We're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all

1 (21s):
Theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (34s):
Frog into my, my morning frog out of my throat yet. How you doing? I am. Wow. I have a lot to talk to you about, oh, I

1 (45s):
Half expected you to have red hair this morning.

2 (49s):
Oh, do you think I should. I okay. But like, did you see the picture? I put a run Lola run. I mean, that might be a little hard to maintain.

1 (59s):
It's super hard to make, like you'll, you'll have to be the salon and read six weeks at least, or four weeks for root touch-up. But I mean, I personally think the routes coming in would look cool, but wow. Yeah,

2 (1m 13s):
The whole rally thing. Well, I'll keep you posted cause I, I definitely want to do something different, much different what's going on. Okay. So first thing I'll just get out of the way is for fun, because we're always trying to remember our classes and who taught and what gear we did, everything I ordered my transcript, which unfortunately does not have the names of your professors. Just, yeah, it just has the name of the class and my grades were fair, not great. Like I had a 3.5 or something like that, which I would have, I thought in my memory that I got really good grades in college, but they were really just pretty average.

2 (2m 1s):
But guess what my lowest grade was in

1 (2m 8s):
Was it, was it, well, the easy choice is add Colleen,

2 (2m 13s):
My C my, my one and only see mine was an intro to psychology. I was talking to my husband about it and he goes, yeah, I got a low grade too. He's like, we were just basically saying, this is all too real. We're not ready yet. I think

1 (2m 40s):
That's a great observation by him.

2 (2m 44s):
See my whole areas. It's just hilarious. And then in other classes where I was sure, you know, I was hated like an alcohol use class in that I got A's so my God isn't that it's also subjective, like our, our experiences, something as subjective and then our memory about something totally changing. Only subjective as the years go by. Right.

1 (3m 7s):
It's not just subjective. It's yeah. It's very like mutating subjects, right? Yeah. That's crazy. Oh my God. So you ordered your transcript. Okay. Now you have a transcript

2 (3m 21s):
And guess what? Anybody can, it's 25 cents. Like if you have, if you haven't ordered, like you have a certain number, you can get in a certain period of time. And so your first one is 25 cents. You,

1 (3m 33s):
Anybody else want to have a transcript? You

2 (3m 36s):
Could relive your, your grades. Oh my gosh. Might find some surprises. Do you think you would find some surprises in your

1 (3m 42s):
I'm? Sure. I mean, I know for a fact that I, that I, I was supposed to drop a class, a, a non, obviously non theater school class, and I never dropped it. So if you don't drop it, you get an F. So I got an F in, like, I want to say it was like sociology or something like that. And I almost didn't graduate because they thought, yeah. And so you can't, I knew it was like, I remember my last year, my senior year, I had to like, do all kinds of regular role. And the other thing is that I didn't do was one year, one quarter or something you had to like re up your financial aid and I didn't do that.

1 (4m 24s):
So I didn't pay for like a quarter. And they were like, yeah, you're, I'm so shocked. I graduated. I don't know what was happening. They were like, yeah, you have to pay.

2 (4m 35s):
I had to do some real tap dancing to my parents graduate.

1 (4m 39s):
Yeah, I remember that, but I don't. Yeah. I I'm sort of scared to look at the grades. I don't.

2 (4m 46s):
Yeah. I mean, whatever, it's like a grade and acting school is just kind of funny. It should probably be, and maybe at some schools it is pass, fail. It just should be pass, fail. Like you either got it. Or you didn't get it. You either write forth effort or you didn't. Right. So that's kind of, wow. Okay. And update on surprises. Because last week I was saying like, I'm open to surprise. And it worked, which is to say, I think pretty much not that like some big surprise came falling out of the sky, like is what, the thing that I was really after. But instead I did, I took my own advice and like pursued, doing something differently.

2 (5m 27s):
And on Saturday we ended up, I just on Friday night when Aaron came home, I said, I want to have fun tomorrow, but I've got to get out of this house. I've got to get out of this town. And so he searched up like fun things to do. And he found something which actually was terrible, but it didn't matter because it was different. And we, it was a car. It was, it, it was promoting itself as some like amazing fall festival with all this kind of stuff. And it was literally a carnival, like the Carney trucks. It's amazing.

1 (6m 7s):
Like, yeah. Right. Oh, well they had some good marketing.

2 (6m 11s):
Yeah, they sure did. Cause it was listed as the number one thing to do in my state this weekend, the state and the state and the state. But even, maybe it was a slow weekend and we had fun. Anyway, we had fun. We went to a town we've never been to, we spent time together. You know, it, it was fine. It was good. And more importantly, I feel like it, it just doing something like that and genders like, okay, what else can you do? What else? You know? So I think that, that was the important thing is that it opened me up to

1 (6m 43s):
Novelty. Did anyone else, did anyone get hurt on a ride?

2 (6m 48s):
No, but the whole time I was like, I bet this is going to be one of those times where one, we're one of these things just going to go flying off into the, so if you really want to call it,

1 (6m 58s):
If you really want to go down a crazy dark rabbit hole, like, okay, well I'm obsessed with fail videos fails. You know, if you watch carnival fails. Oh my God. And most of them are deadly. Thank God. But they're just like, where thing flies off. Or like, like a lot of times what you have is cell phones going crazy or birds like birds attacking people on rollercoasters is one of my favorite things to watch. It's not that the bird is attacking. It's at the bird is just trying to fucking fly. And it runs smack into a person on rollercoaster, the best thing you've ever seen.

1 (7m 38s):
But the sad thing is 90% of the time the bird dies, you know? But like, because the velocity, the force is so great, but it's pretty freaking funny. People are filming themselves usually like right then all of a sudden, a huge pigeon like common. So carnival fails is, is one thing where like someone's standing there like videotaping their friend on t...

Intro: Having the experience of listening and not talking.
Let Me Run This By You: I want to stop doing comparisons.
Interview: We talk to Erikka Yancy about developing an eating disorder, facing the not so nice qualities of her younger self, cutthroat environments, becoming a documentary film producer, going to grad school at AFI, One Flea Spare, being one of only a very few students of color, unlikely hikers.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 1: (00:08)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina [inaudible]. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Multiple projects together? I, for some reason it just never hit me.

Speaker 2: (00:34)
We also had that same. I feel like it's because we never felt like, well, I'll speak for myself. I never felt like I fit in there. So, so if you, if I don't fit in somewhere, I'm not going to be like, Hey, so-and-so let's, but, but you're right. I mean, I think the, the resources and the, um, people available to us are the same people that were available to them. You're so right. I think it just, for me, it's psychology. It just comes down to not feeling worthy or, um, interesting or whatever enough to say to someone, Hey, let's do a project together or let's, you know? Absolutely. And it is sad. And, and I think I always it's through graduation, after graduate, I always had the feeling like I, it was a mistake that they let me stay there. It was a mistake that I was ever led in, in the first place I didn't really belong to, you know, so then you'd think, well, but everybody else did everybody, but me deserved to be there. And so they all get to reuse their cohorts. Right, right. Of, uh, of the school. I mean, I use their connections, reap the rewards. I definitely feel the same way. And I also, I also felt like, and I feel like this at grad school too, that I didn't fit in. And so I didn't use use my grad school connections when I was starting out as a therapist. Like, it's just, I didn't use any of my connections anywhere ever. I have never, I have never.

Speaker 1: (02:09)
Yeah. Even when I was a therapist too, Aaron would always be saying,

Speaker 2: (02:13)
Give me like, like an example was, this is a very, this is not related, but it's related. Ah, I remember when we were living in New York and he was in his residency and I needed a doctor's appointment or something like that. And I called and it, and I kind of needed to be seen urgently, but, um, they didn't have any appointments. And so I had to take one that was whatever, in two weeks, and I told them about it. And he was like, did you say that you were married to me? And I said, no, why, why would I do that? He's like, Gina, you have to say, you have to call back and say, I'm Dr. Krasner's wife. And it made me feel icky, but whatever it is, just the way it works, because sure enough, when I called back, they're like, Oh, why didn't you say something? Of course

Speaker 3: (03:03)
You can come in today.

Speaker 2: (03:06)
Just, I guess it just

Speaker 3: (03:09)
Really bothers me that that is the way that the world works. And, and I, and I have never been one to want to, I've never, I've really ushered like the whole schmoozy nature of this business, which is another one of my failings, like in terms of getting, getting what I wanted out of my career.

Speaker 2: (03:32)
Oh, I mean, I think I totally can relate to that. And I, all I can say is like, I totally relate. And also we're given a chance, thank gosh, now, to start over and to do it in a way that isn't smarmy, but it's also, it comes back to confidence, right? It's a confidence game of like, get in there and swing your Dick and, and own your. And so now I did something, um, like two, two weeks ago when I talked to somebody and I told you, you know, it was through a friend. And, but I did say my ask is that you would, I just to the person I just said, my ask is that you'd read my spec and then it's you. And then, and, and, and if you have any feedback on it, I would ask that you give it to me. And I would also ask that you read our original pilot. And if you have agents and managers in your world, that might like our, our work, please, if you would pass it along and no one was like, Oh my God, you know, she wasn't like, Oh, that's crazy. She was like, okay.

Speaker 3: (04:35)
Yeah. Right, right, exactly. Because everybody also knows before the conversation ever happens, if somebody is asking to chat with you, everybody already knows that there's going to be an ask in there. That that's how it works.

Speaker 2: (04:47)
The thing I was going to say is even when, so I was thinking about like, well, is it me? Is it still the common denominator? So I remember when, um, I had just moved to LA and actually someone said, Oh, I told my agent that there was a hot new Latina in town immediately. I felt terrible. Like, I didn't feel like I deserved that label. Right. Whatever the point is, she was trying to be super helpful. And she made an appointment with me, with her agent. And I went in beans and I bombed the meeting. I sabotaged myself, I sabotage the meeting. I downplayed all my, I had been on two TV shows at the time I downplayed the TV show. I ruined it. I ruined the meeting and I wasn't ready. I wasn't, I couldn't take it in. And now we're just starting to be able to be like, yeah, no, we want to do projects. We want to do this. We're worthy. But it took me to be 45. That's what it took.

Speaker 3: (05:45)
And it takes what it takes. I've been talking ab...

Intro: speaking up for yourself, sharing your wins, jealousy
Let Me Run This By You: Boz explains how she maintains having many close friendships, when Boz called an ex 89 times in 4 hours, What About Bob?
Interview: We talk to Brian James Polak (host of the Subtext Podcast!) about taking a circuitous route to playwriting, Marymount University, Keane, NH, opting for a philosophy major, do you need to be reflected by your parents?, being an RA, when his college guidance counselor told him to go to a trade school, early adulthood financial naïveté, Meisner, improv, Jeremy O. Harris, posthumous playwriting.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Hello? How are you today? Well, I'm better than yesterday in terms of my, I really spoke up for myself and with my friend and for podcast listeners. I think we did not record this cause we were just having a meeting, but we did record it, but not on a podcast format.

1 (49s):
Anyway, the point is I had a friend that had sort of tried to, or did set a boundary in a really messy way that I did not receive, but, and then I, I was proud of myself. I just called and I like, I it's interesting as I get older, I don't have a charge on things like I wasn't charged about it. I was like, listen, I mean, I was charged about it when I talked to you because that's what you do when you talk things out. But like I just listed, I totally appreciate that you have this issue and you don't want to hear me talk about certain things. Cause that was the whole thing is that she said, you know, it basically comes down to jealousy and envy and I get those things a hundred percent.

1 (1m 33s):
Believe me, if you listen to the podcast, you know, that like all of my theater school experience and until like maybe four years ago was spent basically living in one state of constant, less than feeling and envy. So I don't, but I'm trying not to do that anymore and I'm working on it. So anyway, I just said like, Hey, like here's the thing. If you need to set a boundary, which it sounds like you do to not hear about certain wins of mine, I just need you to know that that's gonna really affect our relationship. And also I've spent, and this is the core I whittled down. I'm trying lately to whittle down to the core issue. And so, because it just saves a lot of time in conversations.

1 (2m 15s):
Like literally it same with pitching, same with anybody like whittle it down. What are you really saying? And what I'm saying is I spent my whole life not feeling like I wasn't allowed to celebrate my wins, which started in my family of origin. I don't want to do that anymore. It's painful. It'll kill me. It lead to depression, anxiety. I'm not doing it anymore. So I said, if we need to take a break in general from chatting for, well, great. I'd much rather do that. Then, then me censor myself. I'm not, I'm not going to do that with people on my free time. Like, I feel like we have to do that in, in professional settings all the time. Or like as adults in, in the world.

1 (2m 56s):
Right. We can't go around saying, I mean, when you can't and you end up in an institution or a jail, so, so, and, and she was totally receptive and was like, oh yeah, I was shocked just because that's not been my experience with people, not her, but people and oh yeah. And myself. And so we're going to, we're going to give it a shot to, to try it again. And then I just said like, literally, I'm not going to look. I everyone's got to do what they need to do, but like, I, I, I L I am not willing to, yeah. Not share to, to hide from people I'm supposedly supposed to be close with.

1 (3m 37s):
Like, I just, it's just not working. It doesn't work out. If it worked out, I would have continued doing what I did my whole life. Well,

2 (3m 46s):
It works out if you're in a people pleasing relationship where all you can get out of it is the satisfaction in any given moment of telling the person exactly what they want to hear. But of course we've long discovered that that is not a great long-term solution because it leads to all of the aforementioned maladies. So good for you.

1 (4m 6s):
Thank you. And, and, and not only does it lead to, you know, certain inevitable death, really it, once you, once I know the, in my heart, it doesn't work. I can't in good faith, keep people pleasing because I don't have the evidence anymore that it actually does anything other than create depression. Like I have that visceral experience. So I, I, I'm not the kind of person, I don't think many people are sociopath aside or psychopaths that like, can pretend. So I I'm like not going to pretend anymore that I can function that way. It's just, it's just a waste of everybody.

2 (4m 45s):
Yeah. And I'm, I'm about to say the world's least profound thing, but it's been profound for me cause I'm just like really getting to it, which is the thing that you run out of steam for, with the people pleasing is just simply the fact that in the effort to please other people, you, you don't please yourself. And so it'd be like trying to fill your gas tank with like Daisy pedals, you know, because somebody wants you to fill it. And it's like, okay, well maybe it'll get somewhere for awhile. But at the end of the day, you still need gas. Like you still need to meet your own needs. You still need to be in charge of your own. I mean, that's it, you need to meet your own needs.

2 (5m 25s):
And so the, the thing that ends up always underneath the people pleasing is, oh, I haven't met my own needs. And funny thing, the needs didn't disappear just because I wasn't, you know, because I chose not to meet them. That's been my thing recently of like, I don't know how I was previously formulating my lack of willingness to take care of myself. I think I was formulating it as like being heroic in some way or being tough in some way, which it just completely isn't, it's just being afraid to like, engage with me and that's, Hey everybody, it's only you at the end.

2 (6m 9s):
So might as well get cozy with you now and figure out how to meet your needs now. So agree. And she received it well. So like, that's the best possible outcome.

1 (6m 21s):
Yeah. She totally received it. Well, we're going to give it a shot, you know, because I talked to you and then I talked to my other friend and my other friend, it just, everyone talks from where they're coming from. My other friend was like, oh, you need to just cut her off. Like you can't ever talk to her again. She's crazy. She's crazy. And like, you, you can't, you that's enough. And I was like, oh man, I could. But like,

2 (6m 45s):
And I can relate to that too. I mean, I can really, because of what that person is saying is like, it's so hurtful, you know? Right. Cause that that's an instinct. We sometimes have somebody hurt us. So they're dead.

1 (6m 56s):
Yeah. And they're crazy. Like write them off as bonkers and you don't have time for it. Here's the thing. I think it's all a wait and see situation. Like, you know, relationships evolve and change. And, and I don't want to like end the friendship right now. I mean, if this continued, of course, but like I give people a chance, you know? But like, yeah. It's so funny.

2 (7m 22s):
C...

Intro: Boz leaves her MFA program. We talk about the Midwest approach to "sticking it out", the perils of mentorship, consolidating power and amassing fortunes, 2021 as the Year of Big Asks, hiding out at institutions of higher learning,
Let Me Run This By You: choosing not to cater to White Fragility, "progressives" and their art, 2021 as the Year of Is This a Waste of My Time?,
Interview: We talk to Jess Hanna! Making your living in theatre in LA, Ithaca, Cornell Savoyards, Trial By Jury, Showboat, The Hangar Theatre, You Never Can Tell, Bob Moss, Playwrights Horizons, Bob Fosse, Delroy Lindo in Joe Turner's Come and Gone, Gregory Hines in Jelly's Last Jam, Sarafina, Hofstra, Burn This, Bootleg Theater, Aubrey Payne, making changes at TTS, cast list traditions, SITI, theatre in LA, the importance of making sure your unions are representing your best interests, the realities of making a living as an artist, the importance of early mentorship, and being "in the ring".

Let Me Run This By You: COVID, NXVIM, we are all in a cult because everything is a cult.
Interview: Jen and Gina unpack their own memories of and experience with The Theatre School.

CONTENT WARNING: Trauma, Suicide.
Intro: Do you know who your allies are? Boz is torqued. How big is the pie anyway?
Let Me Run This By You: Vulnerability on Clubhouse
Interview:  We talk to Rob Hess about making ice cream in Michigan, suffering a huge trauma in high school, getting cut in his second year, feeling safe with Phyllis Griffin, when Carey Peters saved Rob's life, living alone in a rural Michigan cabin, writing screenplays, making films, finding human connectivity through ice cream, finding healing through the podcast, being told he was the next John Malkovich, Don Ilko, Wallace Shawn, thought experiments.

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1: (00:08)
sworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? So I just

Speaker 2: (00:34)
Obsessed with this idea of like, who you think are going to be allies aren't allies and who you've made our allies, our allies. I am. So it is my own making in my head that certain people should be loyal and other people shouldn't be loyal. Right. So, but that's not how the world works. I'm realizing because I think someone should be my ally. Does it mean they give two about me or, or just because I think someone is snarky and maybe they hate me. Doesn't mean they're not going to be an ally. So, okay. So at this point in the conversation, boss tells a story that we really can't air on the podcast, unfortunately, but we had a conversation afterward that we thought was worthwhile to share. So you're just going to have to know that things are going to be a bit out of context. And I'm sorry for that, but I hope you enjoy the conversation that follows in any case.

Speaker 2: (01:36)
Okay. Okay. So what, one of the pervasive myths and I also suffer from the delusion of this myth. It's so it must just be hardwired. Okay. Is the pie is very small. There's very few pieces. Keep everybody out of your pie. Okay. Which yeah, if you just think about it, like completely in a base way. Yeah. There's only so many berries. There's only so much elk. I get it, but we're not foraging for berries and we're not hunting elk. We're talking about a multi-billion dollar business that has tons and tons and tons of opportunities in which is always looking for the next best thing. And a rising tide lifts all boats. And if you extend yourself to people who are lower than you on the food chain, it only helps you. It never hurts you. I agree. A hundred percent. And then on the base level, especially as former therapists, the is so transparent and we will keep all of this in the is so transparent that it's like, I, you are not, I want to always say to people and except it sounds like I'm being a huge narcissist, but it's like, I want to say to people, you are talking to someone who studied human brain and emotions for years and worked with some of the biggest sort of sociopath and gang members like weird.

Speaker 3: (03:00)
I know what's happening here. Let's cut the. Just say to me, I don't feel ready to share my resources. Now look, will that hurt my feelings? Absolutely. But will it make me insane? No. Right, right. Yeah. Just don't share resources. Just say, I'm not going to share my research. Don't say let's zoom.

Speaker 2: (03:21)
Hmm. Yeah. Well, okay. So then the next thing that occurs to me is like this whole thing about California versus, okay. So we left California for a variety of reasons, but one of the reasons that it's really sticks with me is we were so tired of this fakery around kumbaya, this fake kumbaya stuff. It was always like the, it was always the people who told you that they were pacifists that were like gonna definitely Shiv you.

Speaker 2: (03:57)
And it was always the people who preach, you know, inclusivity and whatever who were so judgmental. And it was just so disavowed where in other places, and it's not like, I believe in the whole thing of people tell you, like it is in New York and people don't tell you, it's not really binary like that. It's just that you do encounter people who are more willing to say, like giving the example of Bella. It can telling Eric later, I just didn't want you in my play. Like I could tell you something else I could tell you. Oh, it was really tough to make the decision. I could tell you, you know, you were really great, but somebody else, but that's the truth of it is, and you came to me for the truth. So I'm going to tell you the truth. I did not want you in my play. And I think it would be hard to say I'm not ready to share my resources, but it wouldn't be hard to say. I wish I had time to talk to you, but I don't.

Speaker 3: (04:51)
Oh,

Speaker 2: (04:53)
I, and I guess it's not entirely true that the pie is infinite. I guess that's not a good way to say it, but, uh, what is true is that if you, okay, so maybe there's only five spots for writers that are in her demographic, whatever that is. And so maybe she doesn't, she doesn't want you to get her spot. Okay. Right. But there's more than five spots for something else about you. There's, you know what I'm saying? Like what if she even said she, yeah. What if she had even said to you, well, I don't know if you're willing to do this, but there's a lot of, you know, writing assistant positions open right now in, uh, you know, San Diego someplace that you don't want to, you know, but like, Hey, if I heard about this one opportunity, it just would take so little. Right. It would just take so little.

Speaker 3: (05:49)
And I think the thing that, that hurt that is frustrating the most is it's transparent. But I think that I don't, I think that that comes from having a very unique set of circumstances, like being an emotionally neglected child and then being, um, someone who's co-dependent and then being a therapist, I'm like, dud...

Intro: Final Draft is conspiring against us, Beastie Boys' Adam Horowitz, Doris the dog loves the vet, Jim Croce, The Cure.
Let Me Run This By You: storytelling, Risk Podcast, The Moth
Interview: We talk to the creator and producer of You're Being Ridiculous, Jeremy Owens, about offending people, porn, Samantha Irby, Roosevelt University, University of Arkansas, The URTAs, King Lear, Greg Vinkler, Barbara Gaines, Plautus' The Rope, P.F. Changs, Kyogen, Threepenny Opera, Steppenwolf, Brene Brown, Marianne Williamson.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

3 (15s):
At 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (34s):
Yeah.

1 (35s):
It was one of these things where it's like, final draft will not let you restart your computer. I'm like, fuck you. Final draft. What did you ever do for me? Final draft writer, duet. They're all, they're all plotting against me,

2 (47s):
But what is, what is, what does final draft have to do with your camera working on this?

1 (53s):
So in order to, to be okay, the bottom line is I need a new computer. Okay. Let's start there second. Okay. That's the first level of problems. It's like the deepest level. And then we, if we go up a little bit into the level of problems, it is that final draft that I might camera in order to use my camera. Sometimes I have to restart my computer because it's so old. Right. So I need to restart,

2 (1m 19s):
You know, I want to do any one thing in the morning I got, are really rev my engine.

1 (1m 26s):
So like, I'm like, okay, well, in order to restart the computer, it's like not letting me restart it because final draft is this because probably final draft is so advanced and my computer is so Jack.

2 (1m 39s):
Totally. And that's how they get you mad. I feel like they all conspired to be like, okay, well let's make it. So this will work on this version. So then,

1 (1m 49s):
So anyway, I see you, you look great. I look like shit. So it's probably better my camera's up.

2 (1m 57s):
So a couple of things I keep forgetting to ask you on here, about how, how did it come to be that you were chatting in the parking lot with Adam Horowitz about your dogs, Volvo.

1 (2m 12s):
We never talked about that.

2 (2m 14s):
We did not.

1 (2m 15s):
Okay. So I rule up, so my dog, Doris, who everyone knows that listens to the podcast and by everyone, I mean, whoever listens to the podcast, you know what I mean? So hopefully it's growing and growing, listen and rate the podcast. Anyway, the point is I roll up to the vet, which I do oh about every other week, because my dog is a very high maintenance. And so she's just so she of course had an ear infection. Cause she has these huge ears that collect all this bacteria. So I roll up and there's an eye and because it's COVID and everything, you have to park outside and wait, but because it's LA all the windows are down and everyone's car and there's this dude sitting in his Kia has electric Kia.

1 (2m 59s):
Well,

2 (2m 59s):
My key.

1 (3m 0s):
Yeah, I know. I know. I did not recognize this human being. He looked like my husband, like fifties gray, maybe had glasses on.

2 (3m 13s):
Why would you like all our knowledge of them is when they were so, so young. Right,

1 (3m 18s):
Right. So young. And I like didn't, you know, keep up with the beast. So it was like, I had other things to do, you know? So I was doing other things. So I'm, I'm like trying to corral Doris out of the car. She's crazy. She's trying to get out. She loves the vet. The backdrop is my dog

2 (3m 35s):
Loves the,

1 (3m 36s):
Oh my God. She races towards the vet with a fury that is unmatched, loves it. I

2 (3m 43s):
Never once heard of this in my entire life. So

1 (3m 45s):
She's really, really excited about the bet. So she's an extra crazy. And I get her out of the carrier to let her sniff around in the parking lot. And I see this gentleman who is the interesting thing about him is that his leg is out the window. Like he's like resting his leg. And I'm like, well, that's kind of weird for like an older dude, but whatever, it's, it's LA like, you know

2 (4m 8s):
That sound's going to say, I imagine that kind of thing happens in LA.

1 (4m 11s):
Yeah. And plus he's probably weighed been waiting and waiting for his dog forever. And so, cause you, you have to wait out there, like they don't want you to leave in case they need you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, fine. So I, and I say, and he says, oh, a cute dog. And I'm like, oh, she's a pain in the ass. And then he's like, what's her name? And I'm like, oh, her name is Doris. And he's like, oh, that was my mom's name. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then we talked about the origin of Doris, cause it's from a Jim Croce song. And Jim Croce is someone, my husband adores the singer. The folks there yeah. Died when he was 29. Looked like he was about 60. When he died.

2 (4m 47s):
He was 29.

1 (4m 49s):
Yes. You know, he looks like David Abbott, Holly, if you ever look at me

2 (4m 56s):
Like a hole, I see it.

1 (4m 59s):
But just bringing it back to the old theater school. So, so yeah. And so he's like, we talked about Jim Croce and he's like, Jim Croce is the first person I remember dying. I had that album. And I said, yeah. And he said, that's in a Jim Croce song. And I said, yes, Leroy brown, Friday about a week ago, Leroy shooting dice. And at the end of the bar sat a girl named Doris and who that girl looked nice. And that's why we named Doris Doris. He was like, I don't remember Doris being in that song. So we get into that. Right. Okay. And then he's like, I'm like, oh, is your dog okay? And he's like, well, she, she, she got a cut on her neck and I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, is that

2 (5m 38s):
A knife fight in a bar?

1 (5m 39s):
I was like, how did that happen? And he goes, I don't know. But like, you know, since I'm not a doctor, I figured I'd take, bring her to the vet. I'm like good plan, my friend, good plan. So he's like, I'm waiting for him and waiting for her. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he said, what's wrong with your dog? And I said, oh my God, what? Isn't wrong with my dog? And I said, my dog has a dermatitis of the vulva and an ear infection. And he's like, wait, what? And I'm like, yes, she just she's out. She's got a l...

Opening: Jen and Gina discuss microphone woes, professional gamers, and taking pictures of the television.
Let Me Run This By You: Dolly Parton documentary, an idea for a new take on 9 to 5, and comforting watching in a pandemic.
Interview: Jeffrey Brown talks getting into The Theatre School, growing up in an elite musical family, inappropriate audition pieces, the pelvic clock, drumming, discipline, Ric Murphy, the legendary production of Frank Galati's The Grapes of Wrath at Steppenwolf in Chicago, learning acting anew with each project, True Blood, Henry Danger, playing at the Bop Shop, Blue Man Group, trusting yourself as an actor, fearing "getting cut" at theatre school, Don Ilko, and Camp Winnarainbow. We did not get a chance to discuss his film, Vicarious, or his inimitable turn on Doc McStuffins (plus so, so much more), so hopefully we'll have him back!

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jeff Brown: (00:10)
And I'm Gina, Pulice.

Jeff Brown: (00:11)
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

Jeff Brown: (00:15)
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

Jeff Brown: (00:20)
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

Jeff Brown: (00:38)
Real nook, like window. Cause not. So my chair is high now.

Jeff Brown: (00:45)
Okay. Then we both have a new thing. So, uh, I'm having, I've been having microphone problems and I went online yesterday to find, I tried to get my microphone fixed. Um, I tried to, I'd watched YouTube videos about how to fix it. I figured out what was wrong with it. And when I was watching the video about the guy who fixed it during the video, he, he, he he's using a, um, thought solder, soldering iron. And he, he just like completely melts the motherboard. Okay. So you don't know how to do this either.

Jeff Brown: (01:24)
Brilliant though. That's kind of brilliant.

Jeff Brown: (01:26)
So I go to best buy.

Jeff Brown: (01:29)
Oh no. I went there to try and fix my printer. Go ahead.

Jeff Brown: (01:33)
They had, you know, they're these microphones all sold out because everybody and their mother has started test last month. So, so the one that was left is world of Warcraft.

Jeff Brown: (01:48)
Oh my God. I love it.

Jeff Brown: (01:51)
Get gaming microphone. I love it. Why do you need to make her from here gamer? I don't know what. Yes. I don't see. This is you have to run. I don't know, dude. I don't know if you want to be anywhere in this life as a game, right? You better have good quality headphones, good quality microphone. Because you might be one of the people who gets a serious living. She's just recording yourself, playing video games and having a YouTube channel. Right. That other sit and watch you play a video game. It is the single strangest thing about this generation. It's like the only thing that I, that I don't go, Oh, I get that, you know?

Jeff Brown: (02:43)
Okay. So I'm trying to like equate it to anything that we, I don't think there is

Jeff Brown: (02:49)
The closest I could come to it and it's really not close at all. Like I just remember my mom looking at me when I was, when I would be taping radio. Oh, Oh,

Jeff Brown: (03:03)
Oh, that is yes. Yes. I taped her and I also okay. Okay. That we're getting somewhere now. We're getting somewhere. You know what I did took pictures of the television with my Kodak, Kodak. This camera when Michael Jackson was on that's similar. So cute. I took my disc, my disc Kodak, disc man, this maker, whatever. And just whatever and Kodak disc and that I got for Christmas and I wouldn't, my Michael Jackson was on at the, Grammy's doing his moonwalk. I was taking pictures. The pictures I still have. I found, I think I found one, one. You it's,

Jeff Brown: (03:39...

Intro: Lost Boys, Chapelle's Show, Dianne Wiest, Brian Cox, Hillary and Bill.
Let Me Run This By You: I need to KNOW what your major malfunction is. Compulsive liars, mushrooms.
Interview: We talk to Scott Torrence about raves, feelng famous as a club kid, and surviving Tulsa.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? And then we watched lost boys, which by the way, the lost boys is the lost boys, like from the eighties and that movie. It's hilarious. So in a real way, like there's some comedy gold in that movie that both Myles and I were like, like, look, it's a cheeseball eighties movie, but it holds up.

1 (53s):
There's not, there's no real. I'm trying to think of like, look the thing that Dave, there's no people of color in the movie that sucks. Yeah. But in terms of overtly racial, racist, or sexist, sexist jokes, not, and obviously it's creepy and it's a vampire flake, but it holds up, I was shocked. I thought this is going to be a piece of shit. So what is the thought, how did you arrive at watching this movie? So, okay. So that is such a great, that's a great question in that Myles and I never agree on what to watch ever, ever, ever, ever his idea of like, he wants to watch good things, right?

1 (1m 35s):
Like he wants to watch real stuff. I have to be in a very specific mood to watch real shit. I can't be triggered about anything in any way. I can't, it's really lame. Like I can't, so you're a delicate flower. Yeah. And I think it's also, I just am unwilling to use the brain power and the emotional wherewithal to focus on something that's like really good. So, okay. So which is why I thought lost boys. Right. Cause who cares? But it was so good, but Myles likes to watch, like he wanted me to watch the harder they fall, you know, the new sort of Western on I, I watched a little bit and it was, it was, I thought it was really, really well-written, but it was also Uber violent and Uber, like it was just too much.

1 (2m 23s):
So it didn't. Okay. Chappelle show. Interesting choice. We started watching the first season of Chappelle show. Wow. Wow. No, it is not a shocker that Mr. Chappelle is, is having the problems that he is having. Now, if you go back and watch the show, it's really interesting. And I, I don't know where I fall. I do think that if you kill affordable housing, I hate your guts because those were all of my former clients. And also, and just for humanity's sake. So I hate that. And we talked about that on the podcast. Right. And then, but anyway, so we stumbled upon and I was like, let's watch it pops up on my Netflix feed because why not?

1 (3m 6s):
And, and I was like, all right, let's watch it. And I'm expecting it to be so bad. First of all, Diane weest is a goddamn national treasure. She,

2 (3m 16s):
She really is. She really is. She's such a good,

1 (3m 20s):
Okay. So if I had to pick my, I always play this game, my new parents, my parents are going to be Brian Cox and Diane weest. Yes. I mean, it's, it's going to be very weird, but it, it, that if I quirky, I told you how I met Brian Cox and asked him to be my new dad. Excuse me. It's a lot before,

2 (3m 43s):
After all of the time I've spent talking to you about succession and reading Brian Cox's autobiography.

1 (3m 49s):
I just remembered it. I remembered it when I was talking, thinking about Diane, Diane weest lasted. It was before it was during adaptation that Nick cage made. And I like, I somehow it was, he, he was in a anyway. It doesn't matter. The point is I got to talking to him at a party and I was like, I want you to be my new dad. And at the time my dad was still alive. Right. So, oh, wow. Like, you know what his response was. I get that a lot. And he was serious. He said, people project all this shit onto me.

1 (4m 30s):
I believe

2 (4m 31s):
That makes a lot of sense. Oh, wow. Very interesting.

1 (4m 35s):
Yeah. This is like, before I knew anything about anything and right, right,

2 (4m 39s):
Right, right.

1 (4m 40s):
Oh my God. So we watched the lost boys, all this to say, and we just did it because it was something that we both could agree on that wasn't going to cause me weirdness because I'm weird and it wasn't going to four miles or what ends up happening because I, you know, I was watching about a Canadian cannibal the other night and he's like, I can't watch this before bed. Like, I can't under fair enough. Fair enough. But you know who, the stars of this movie are the true stars. Corey Feldman inquiry, aim pain. Yeah. And the other frog brother, they were Hulu like Cory Ames, Hames, his him, Hey right.

1 (5m 25s):
With age Corey Haim's delivery costumes. Oh my God. The clothing, like from the eighties and his delivery and his, his acting chops, his comedic acting chops are like fucking unparalleled. They're like on par with some deep shit. Anyway. So I that's my recommendation wash the lost boys. I wish there were people of color in it, of course, but

2 (5m 53s):
Maybe they'll do a remake, but that seems to be the way that they, they, you know, fix that well, not to brag, but at my dinner, my mellantine dinner last night, two other very special people were at our same restaurant. Whew. Hillary and bill Clinton. Yes. And it was so moving to see them. It was especially her, him. I'm like, I've changed my tune a little bit about him, but, and she is just as energetic and bubbly and, and kind of course, I didn't want to go up up to them.

2 (6m 36s):
I've never done that, but I've never gone up to a celebrity and said, can I whatever, say hello or take your picture with her. But on the way out, they were seated in such a way that you could sort of see in when, when you left. And I just didn't, you know, I just blew kisses at her and she just, you know, waved her hands and gave me a big smile. It was really, really nice. That is so awesome. We it's okay. We didn't deserve her honestly. Right. We would have, we would've ruined it in one way or another. And then juxtapose that with reading this morning. I don't know how I got on this topic. I start reading about what's happening with Kanye right now.

2 (7m 19s):
It's really sad.

1 (7m 20s):
It's

2 (7m 20s):
Really sad. And why are we still in this place where we, don't not enough of us to know that this is not something to joke about. This is not something to salivate over. Like this person really needs help. And the rich, the Oop, the ultra rich in some ways are in a similar position to the ultra poor when it comes to basic things like, you know, health care, we've talked about it a lot with respect to drugs and all the yes, yes. People that are in celebrities lives that ultimately I think lead to their death, but also the, this issue of mental health going, and I'm sorry, but Brittany Spears seems to be going off the rails too.

2 (8m 1s):
I, I'm not saying that it was right. That she was in that conservatorship, but I think she was on meds that she's not on now. And I'm sorry. I wish it weren't the case that really sick mentally ill people needed to take meds, but they do. They just do there's no, it's just the truth. There's no point in like, quibbling about it.

We talk to Wicked's own Elphaba, Jackie Burns!
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
0 (2s):
Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. How I've missed you. I've missed talking to you boss. And I took quite a number of weeks off. Well, I did. She, she actually continued to record for at least one week while I was gone. And she's got a great interview. We've got a great interview coming up. She talked to Jackie burns, little Jackie burns on Broadway, wicked playing Elphaba. No big deal. Actually. She has a big deal and she's great. And so were all of you. I am heartened because even though we've taken all this time off, we've continued to grow our listenership.

0 (47s):
So thank you to you for listening, for continuing to listen for being a first-time listener. If you are thank you for being here, it's a privilege actually, to be able to have a platform to speak one's mind is truly a privilege. And one, I hope we do right by. We're going to be right back into the swing of things with interviews, regular weekly interviews in the fall. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, please enjoy this interview with Jackie burns and I'm Gina Kalichi

3 (1m 34s):
To theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

0 (1m 38s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

3 (1m 43s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (1m 56s):
Here's the thing. Jackie burns. Congratulations. You survived theater school and you also survived this hellish trying to get you on. So squad quest squad cast, which we usually use is totally wonky this morning. And I was like, no, I, because I'm obsessed with you because I'd been researching you. I'm not a musical theater person, but I am one of these musical theater lovers that has so much reverie. And I think it is a sacred thing to sing and I don't really do it. And so I'm obsessed and you and I have the same birthday, October 4, 10, 4, buddy, ten four. So You're a little younger than me, five years, but that's okay.

2 (2m 41s):
I'm still, I'm super obsessed. And I also like I, when I watch, so I'm known for like going to high schools and middle schools and watching musical theater of people I'd have no connection to in what I was at when I was in Chicago, because I adore the art form and I don't do it, but I'm obsessed. So anyway, start, start from the beginning. You grew up in Connecticut. How, and then obviously you're a Broadway star. Are you back working in on Broadway? What's happening with you right now?

5 (3m 13s):
Oh my God. What is happening?

2 (3m 15s):
Yeah. I looked at your, I looked at all your profiles, but I want to hear it from you. Where are you post sort of pandemic. What is happening with your career? Tell us,

5 (3m 27s):
Oh God. Well like every musical theater theater,

2 (3m 31s):
Just say star, just say star, you are a star. You're a musical theater star. Like I understand for someone like I write for TV and I act sometimes, but like I musical theater people when I see them on stage, I'm like, I, the, the, the amount of brilliance it takes and dedication to, I have trouble on set, just moving my body and say, and you sing and move and dance and all the things. Okay. Okay. So what's happening with your career?

5 (4m 2s):
Oh my God. Well, first of all, Jen, I'm obsessed with you because I wish the rest of the world felt the same way about musical theater people because all of I'm most TV and film people are like, oh, you're not a real actor because you,

2 (4m 13s):
No, I would love to cast, listen, listen, what I mean? I would love to catch you and all your cohort when I do, because here's the thing. The body spatial awareness of musical theater folks, to know where they are in space translates onto set. So everyone listening, the 10,000 people that have downloaded this podcast that will continue to hire musical theater folks on television and film because they know bodies and bodies. It's not just a head people. So anyway, okay, go ahead. Sorry. I keep interrupting. I'm just like,

5 (4m 46s):
Nope. I love you. You're like making me feel so good about myself. But as every theater person, all we want to do is get on TV and film.

2 (4m 55s):
Oh, right. It's that's holds true for musical theater folks too. I assume that's where the dough is. Is that

5 (5m 1s):
That's where that money is. Because if you think about it, like once the theater show closes, we don't get a back end of it. So like, that's it. Your paycheck's done.

2 (5m 9s):
There's no residuals.

5 (5m 10s):
There's no residual.

2 (5m 12s):
Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So tell me what is happening now? You said you got your insurance back, which is

5 (5m 17s):
Paula that's hope. It's always helpful. I just did a new musical called a walk on the moon. That was based off the movie. No,

2 (5m 27s):
No,

5 (5m 29s):
No. I'll walk in the cloud. Like very similar. No,

2 (5m 33s):
She's dope. I like to

5 (5m 34s):
Have her with like Viggo, Mortensen, Schreiber. And when it was like back in the day, it's a good movie. Tony, Tony Goldwyn, like directed it and stuff. And he actually came and saw the musical. Did

2 (5m 47s):
He give you a compliment?

5 (5m 49s):
Yes, he was very nice. It was also like super handsome. You're like, hi,

2 (5m 52s):
I have heard. Yes.

5 (5m 54s):
You're just like, hello? Oh, you're married Ella and there's no, no, no, no, no. And my boyfriend's gonna listen to be like,

2 (6m 6s):
No, no, no. That's okay. That's okay.

5 (6m 8s):
No, he knows. He knows that I'm just joking. I'm just stroking on there. No. And then Pam gray wrote it. Who wrote the, who wrote the script as well? Yeah. And it's really good. And we just closed and they're hoping to bring it to Broadway. So fingers crossed. But the problem is, is that Broadway because it was closed for two years. All these shows have been trying to get theater. So that were like low man on the total whole cause it's like two years worth of shows trying to get to Broadway.

2 (6m 37s):
Correct.

5 (6m 37s):
So it's, and we're just like a little show rather than like a big show, so

2 (6m 43s):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But still worked. You have worked post pandemic, which is a huge thing. Okay. So tell me, were you a kid? Who did you grow up? You grew up in Connecticut. I'm assuming, were you a kid? Like you were five and you were like, just ho like you knew you could sing or what, how did that go? How does that, how do you discover that you can freaking sing?

5 (7m 6s):
You're so cute. I'm going to like put your pocket. Your energy is like seven. I'm going to be a best friend now.

2 (7m 13s):
And we'll together. We'll try to, we'll try to have a television show. That's like, I know they did it kind of with glee, but like Glebe, like less sassy and more earnest.

5 (7m 23s):
Yes. I am interested Jen, get

2 (7m 26s):
And throwing some murders because I, I write a lot of murder. Yeah.

5 (7m 29s):
Oh, I love that. That's what

2 (7m 31s):
Musical murders. Great. Okay. So you, you were a kid and how did this happen? That you were like, dude, I can be on stage and sing.

5 (7m 38s):
I just like always was obsessed with it. Like, so I started dancing when I was three and then, but like I used to get on like the little like Hutch, you know, like the fireplace such as my stage and sing, sing to like Michael Jackson's thriller. And I just like, yeah. And I used to, when I used to go to dance, like as I got older, we drove like 45 minutes. My mom drove me very sweet to dance class. And I used to sin...

Intro: we are all different fruits in the same blender.
Let Me Run This By You: writing a bunch of stories with the same ending, Murder on Middle Beach
Interview: We talk to Caroline Uy about stage management for opera, the relationship between engineering and creativity, and the University of Michigan
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth and I'm

2 (10s):
Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school

1 (12s):
Together. We survived it.

2 (14s):
I didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all

1 (21s):
Theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet? What is good in the hood? What is good in the HUD? Let's see what is happening to me. Wow. I'm okay. I'm hanging in and hanging out. You know what I, I realized this morning, I felt like, you know, I'm, I feel like I'm in trans transition, but like, I feel like we've, we've all been in transition for like five years, like five years or so,

2 (59s):
Honestly. It's like, when will the next part come?

1 (1m 2s):
I so like to say like, oh, I'm in transition. Just sounds kind of like, not really true at this point, but like it is, I do feel like I am in transition, but then the thing is, yeah, like when does the transition, how do you know when you're not in transition anymore? I guess is the thing.

2 (1m 22s):
Yeah. And honestly, I think everybody feels that way right now. I, I was in a meeting yesterday and somebody said, how are you doing? And I said, I mean, I'm fine question mark. Like it's every, and everybody's like, yeah, that's exactly how I feel like there's nothing wrong. Really. It's like, my life isn't even really that effected by the pandemic. And yet it feels completely affected by the pandemic. It's the weirdest thing. I just feel like everybody's holding their breath.

1 (1m 53s):
Yeah. I agree. And also like, right, we are looking, I am looking for milestones and markers that never come in a way like, oh, well there's a vaccine. Well, that didn't really work out to where we thought, oh, but now that you know, like the we're going to start recovering and we're going to be post pandemic, but that didn't really happen. Cause then Delta. So like what are we doing for the rest of our lives? Are we going to be like, oh, we're just kind of, and maybe so like maybe, maybe there's. Yeah. I don't know. I just feel like, because particularly like specifically, I'm like, okay, like I keep thinking, right.

1 (2m 35s):
I, I don't. I keep thinking like, okay, well maybe if I start to bring in income, like, that'll be like a mile marker. But like, I don't really think that is actually that true. I think that that'll just give me a sense of stability maybe, but really, I don't know. There is, there, there seems to be less and less stability, I guess, internally, but I am feeling like I'm sorry. Something just popped up said enjoying Microsoft word. Not at this moment and really not even Microsoft word. Does anyone say, oh, I really enjoy using that Microsoft.

1 (3m 18s):
I had a good Microsoft word session the other day. Brilliant. Anyways. So that's where I'm at. Where like, I'm like, okay, you know, I had this thing happen and we can cut out the specifics. Maybe here's, everything is a scam and everything's a cult, like even things that aren't a scam and a cult are a scam in a cult in my eyes now. And I just feel like, so what happened to me was, okay, so I won this thing I had this month of, of, of instruction, which, which was very helpful in some levels. Right. Okay. Fine. Then I said, well, okay.

1 (3m 59s):
I would like to know if you can help me get a rap. Like that's my, and that's their whole mission. Right. Okay. Fine. So then I talked to the head of the joint, right. And he said, okay, send me your script. Cause which means he didn't read it when it won the contest, which is interesting since he runs the joint. But okay. I think an intern Reddit. Okay. That that's okay. But an intern, I'm not sure an intern should be deciding contest results, but that's okay. I don't know that to be true for a fact, but okay. So then I sent it, I sent him the script and didn't hear hold my calls, which you know, is on draft 12.

1 (4m 39s):
Right. I didn't hear, I didn't hear. So I checked in and said, Hey, I just check it in. You said, you'd think about reps. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm eager to move forward. Also. I would like to know, like, what would your suggestions be for next steps with your company? Like in terms of what classes just curious, you know, never, he said, oh, I sent it to another of my colleagues to read and then we'll both compile our thoughts and get back to you. Well, okay. That didn't happen. So then yesterday though, I get an email from the colleague, lovely human, who I've met online briefly, who said your script is not ready for market.

1 (5m 20s):
It needs all these things. And, and I was like, okay, you know, Jen, you are not, your feedback thing is getting kicked up. So like, let's breathe. Let's not. So I said, okay. And all the things that he said, and here's how to fix them and no mention of like, if you fit, no, no, no message from the head of the place who originally said, he'd help me. Right. So from a colleague who said like, all these things need to be fixed and no mention of like, Hey, you know, if you fix these things, we'll help you find a right. Okay. So, no, like none of that, so that I said, whoa, what?

1 (6m 1s):
And one of them is like, glaring, typos. Now, listen, I I'm, I'm a human. Like everybody, 12 people have read this script and we found typos and found typos. If they're glaring, we're all fucking stupid and blind. Okay. So that was a little hard for me to I'm like, okay. So then I wrote and said, okay, thanks for the feedback. I don't have a lot of financial resources at this moment at my disposal to spend on classes, but what would you recommend next steps with roadmap? So what I was hoping, they would say, this is, this all comes down to Gina. The thing that I'm hoping that was said was not said, which is your script is great.

1 (6m 43s):
We'll help you find a rep. Okay. That is just the truth of what I was hoping. Okay. So when that didn't happen, I was bummed. Then I was hoping, I would say, Hey, what class? I don't have a resources. I was hoping they would say, we'll give you a discount or give you a free blahbity blah. That didn't happen. What he said was you should check out our free seminars. And I think you'd find, I think you'd find a formatting class, very insightful for 300 or $300 or whatever the class costs. I think it's like $200. I don't know what it's called. And then I was like, okay. So then I wrote the head and said, Hey, I just got so-and-so's notes. What are your thoughts? And he said, I think you should take the next step in the program, which is the,

2 (7m 31s):
Okay. So this is reminding me of is like, when you go to, you want to make a smoothie. And so you go to whole foods and you get the most beautiful organic produce and you get these beautiful bursting blue blueberries, and these Ruby red strawberries and these, and then you prepare them and you put them in the blender and then it's just one color. And then you just realize, actually everybody's just in the blender. Like we have this idea that there's, you know, oh, well this guy's a blueberry. And so he's got, I'm just a little lowly, whatever raspberry, but it's like, no, he also needs you for his next thing.

2 (8m 13s):
Like, that's the thing is that this level, everybody just needs to leverage whatever they have with everybody else to get to the next ...

Intro: Amtrak, you can't afford to live anywhere, where am I trying to go?, being of service, Legacy, Fresh and Fancy
Let Me Run This By You: We get feedback from Dave, talk about Jeff Garlin, NO ONE IS HIDING ANYTHING
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school

2 (12s):
Together. We survived it.

1 (14s):
You didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all

2 (21s):
Survived theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet?

1 (31s):
Hello survivors. It is Gina. Just wanted to let you know that today, boss and I are guest lists. We are without a guest and we instead had a conversation, just the two of us, chickens about a ton of things, including the fact that nothing is a secret. Even the things that we think are and talking about legacy. This is a topic that boss has been really interested in recently. And I guess I'm starting to get interested in it too. At some point in one's life, one starts to think, Hmm, did it matter that I was here? What did I do? What, what proof or evidence of is there? What I did, or maybe you don't think that way, maybe your legacy is just that you lived a contented and happy life and, and it doesn't matter if it is written in the stars in any way, either way.

1 (1m 22s):
It's fine with me. Just interesting to learn about what people's philosophies or the thoughts are about legacy. And as we come to this end of the year and we're reflecting on, wow, we're reflecting on, I guess these last two crazy years, hopefully everybody is entering this time of reflection with a lot more clarity. Maybe I think the pandemic has been clarifying among many other things. And so hopefully you're feeling, I don't know, clear, and hopefully you are enjoying this podcast.

1 (2m 4s):
And if you are enjoying it, you are hopefully subscribed. And if you're subscribed, hopefully you have left us a review. Honestly, I don't even care what the review says. I think just having reviews is the thing that helps us with the king algorithm. And that's important only because we want to be able to keep doing this podcast. We enjoy doing it. We, we get a lot out of it. And we've heard from people that people are getting a lot out of it in return. So it's a mutually great thing that we'll be able to continue. If you are able to put your love for our podcast, not just in your heart, but in the world, tell the public, shout it from the rooftops.

1 (2m 47s):
I'm not going to stop you from shouting it from the rooftops. I'll tell you that much right now. Anyway, that's all for that. Please enjoy.

3 (3m 10s):
I'm going to take it to all those places. Cause those are like some of my favorite places in Southern California. And I didn't know that. So I'm learning a lot. And so I took it to San Francisco to Oakland and my cousin picked me up. But what is fantastic and sad about Amtrak for people that don't know? Like nobody knows shit about Amtrak, but Amtrak is a government funded. So rail is government funded. It was supposed to be like the thing of the future. It was supposed to be just rail. We weren't like flying and, and, and, and train travel was supposed to be comparable like it was going to be, but it just like, it has a lot to do. Someone was telling me like w who I met on the Amtrak.

3 (3m 51s):
Cause you eat in community eating. So these two amazing women that I met told me that like something with world war two and trains, the trains all had to be used for, for like ammunition, like the war Fs. And so then it became less of a, a passenger situation. And then when flying really anyway. So, but it's gorgeous. So w and what you can do is, so I bought a coach ticket, which is literally like, you know, I don't know, 50 bucks, a hundred bucks round trip from, but then you can bid to upgrade your seat because Amtrak has no money.

3 (4m 32s):
So what you can do is say, okay, well, like I'm willing to pay. They give you a range I'm willing to pay. And I did the lowest $20 more to go to business class, which is like super much nicer. Right. So I bid, and then they said, of course they accepted my bid because it's not a full train. Nobody trained travels by train. And so business classes dope. And it is like, you get two seats. It, they reclined almost all the way. There's, it's just, it's quiet. Like coaches, coaches, loud as hell, where people are eating, like, you know, Funyuns and like Takis chips the whole time. And like, you know, a lot of people like down on their luck and stuff like that.

3 (5m 15s):
Okay. So, you know, I did business class on the way there and lovely. I mean, there's wifi. I mean, it's like dope. And the bathrooms were relative are clean. I don't in business class anyway. All right. So it literally goes up the coast. And so you, you, you're on the ocean. It's the weirdest thing you're like, this is I'm, I'm traveling right next to the ocean. It's a long time. The whole time. Almost long as hell though. Okay. So like, you know, the flight is 45 minutes from Burbank to, to, to San Francisco. And the train ride is 10 hours. Like, that's just how it is. Like, that's, if you are in a hurry, you do not take the Amtrak.

3 (5m 57s):
You know what I mean? So there is like, I do have some shame, like, people think I'm ridiculous a little bit. They're like, I'm like, where am I going? I, it's not like I have pressing meetings. I am not. Yeah.

1 (6m 9s):
And for, for the life, so many of us are living right now, which is working from home or working remotely or making your own schedule. Why shouldn't you it's much better for the environment to take the train. Yeah.

3 (6m 23s):
It is it, you take the airplane. Yes. So, so it was amazing. And then I had a wonderful, wonderful time in San Francisco. Like I never really liked San Francisco. I don't know what my problem was. Like, I never really got into San Francisco even though like people cause

1 (6m 41s):
Your mom left you a spree for, oh

3 (6m 43s):
My God. Yeah. If you listen to this podcast, you know that like, you know, my mom was having an affair and, and, and we went to San Francisco and she literally left my sister and I at the esprit outlet, which thank God, had a restaurant in the outlet for like what felt like forever. But it, it was a work day. It was a full work day at a spree. It was like eight hours. So I just really, in the last couple years have really grown to love the shit out of the bay area. Like I know the tech bros have taken over. I know that you can't afford to live there. Okay. All those things are true. I still, because maybe I'm not from there.

3 (7m 23s):
I know I'm not so butt hurt about that. Like I, you know, and my aunt and uncle this beautiful, beautiful condo in north beach and my cousin lives in the inner inner Richmond, I don't know. Anyway. So she's on Clement street and it's gorgeous. And I walked everywhere and we went hiking in Moran and we drove to Marin. So I would live there. I would live. I mean, I, you know, who can afford to live there, but here's the thing that I think a lot of us too are, are, are really looking at. Most of us in my circle are like, we, we really literally can't afford to live anywhere. Like the, the world is becoming unaffordable on a, so many ways. And so many levels that the thing of like, oh, it's so expensive in blank.

3 (8m 6s):
City becomes less sort of exciting or like less sensational because it's like, look around what, what are you talking about? You can't live anywhere. It's all, it's all terrible. So, so all this to say, like, it was, it was a great trip. And then on the way back, I got smart and I was like, okay, well, let me see if I c...

Intro: songwriting
Let Me Run This By You: The fatal weight of expectations, intentional mourning, Roadmap Writers,
Interview: We talk to Nasma Toukan

FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):

I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I figured. I feel like I don't know what day it is. I 

1 

00:00:32

Know I'm sure. I'm sure I don't know what I'm doing yet. 

2 

00:00:39

And part 

1 

00:00:39

Of what's made it even weird is that for whatever reason, I, when I was setting up my kids a day camps for 

2 

00:00:49

The summer, I 

1 

00:00:51

Failed to realize that this week two of them are in opposite directions each one hour away from my house. So I've been spending like six hours a day driving. 

3 

00:01:07

Oh my God. 

1 

00:01:10

Yeah. Now the good part, because I was like trying to take advantage to the best of my ability of the time is I started to write 

2 

00:01:22

Some songs. I've always 

1 

00:01:26

Really been interested in writing songs and I've written a few, but I don't play music. I don't know anything about like writing music. So I'm like, so I'm trying to work with my family who are mostly all musicians to get like, to, to, to collaborate. So 

3 

00:01:50

Are you all writing songs while you drive the kids or is that what's happening? 

1 

00:01:55

Yeah. Well, I am just sort of like thinking through themes and, and ideas and how, what I really love about good songwriting, modern good song writing is how it can vary up the cadence. My tendency is to be like, <inaudible>, you know, like the, the rhyme scheme is all very the same and I love how people can make B just unexpected and mix it up. So. 

2 

00:02:30

Awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's something new to try. 

3 

00:02:34

So speaking of songs, I went for the first time to a rock show in two years, yea. So Bexley was playing and I'm not managing them, which is good, which is good. They need, they need, I just think they need someone who knows and has a little bit more, well, one, they didn't really want me to, they were like, you're a, like, I am helping, I'm helping I'm being a helper, but, but anyways, so I went to their show and it was three bands and Bexley was playing last. 

3 

00:03:14

And so I haven't been out as past 10:00 PM in maybe, you know, out past 11 actually in like years. So anyway, we went to this venue and in LA, like the arts district kind of downtown and we help sell their t-shirts, which was really miles. My husband and I did, and which was really fun. But what I noticed was, you know, the amount of, I haven't performed in so long, so long. So I used to perform at like mostly reading my writing or in a play or whatever, like we know, but I haven't done that. So that was really interesting to watch. 

3 

00:03:54

I was like, oh, I missed that. I missed that. But the other thing, bringing it to the song stuff is that, like, I just have so much respect for artists that perform in front of other people that saying, and I mean, it is, I always, I forgot because I haven't because of the pandemic and I haven't seen it for so long and I haven't been to live music in so long, but I'm like, this is just like magic that this even can happen at all. That four people on a stage can, can come together, memorize play the same thing with a lot of energy it's loud, it's it was just really beautiful to watch, but it also was like, wow, this is I'm, I'm sort of become really interested in like, what does it take to, to have a good song, like, or a good writing or good whatever. 

3 

00:04:42

Like what makes, what is the magic that makes a song really work or a piece of writing really work, you know? And I don't know what that is, but I, you know, it when you see it, you know, it's undeniable 

1 

00:04:56

And my, my new barometer for everything is just based on this advice. I got, it was advice. I w it was not, if I, somebody was giving me advice, I absorbed somehow. Okay. Which is simply that I think I've said on the podcast before, if you have heard it before, then don't write that, 

2 

00:05:21

Write that thing that you 

1 

00:05:24

Haven't heard. Right. Because it's so easy, you've listened to 10 million songs in your life. It's so easy to sit down and be like, okay, well, songs usually go like this. I mean, I'm not talking about the structure. I just mean if it's, if it's, if there's too much, oh, this is like this song, this song, this song, and this song, then, then that means you don't really have something unique to say, and you, but there is something unique in there. You just have to figure out what it is. Well, 

3 

00:05:49

That's, I think you're right. I think that it is same with writing, right? It's like, what is your take on this theme? Like you were talking about themes. That is all, oh, and I was talking to someone else and saying like, why you, why now, why this? Right. So like, that's what really, what I'm asking myself about everything that I'm doing. And, and then when I talk to like younger people or people that I may be mentoring in some way, I'm like, we got to get really clear on why, why you, why now, why this piece, why this project, why this thing? And it's like, those are really important questions to ask. And I don't ask myself enough. 

1 

00:06:32

Yeah, for sure. It's yeah. It's hard because sometimes you just start writing something that means something to you personally, and something could be excellent Lee written and very personal to you. But if it's not providing something to the culture, then there may not be a place for it right 

3 

00:06:50

Now. Not right now, not right now. You know? And, and it's just interesting. Or, or take the, take the note too, for me of like really ho then honing it in. Why now? Why, what, and then tweaking it based on that. But then you, on the other hand, you have a lot of shit that gets made that shouldn't be made right now. So I, I mean, there's no steadfast rule, but I think, but I think when in doubt, ask those questions of myself and then it'll, it can only make, it can only make the thing better. Yeah, 

1...

Intro: Writing personally
Let Me Run This By You: What would you say to your inner child?
Interview: We talk to Ed Ryan about surviving two theatre schools, surviving 9/11, and interrupted grief.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? And I'm scared. Like, I think partially 

1 

00:00:34

This is this, the main character is based on me. Like all our character. I think every writer writes about themselves. I don't care what you say, aspects of themselves. So I'm like, man, would I do this stuff? Would I, how far would I go to people please? Like that? That is what I'm wrestling with. That is what is, is, how far do we go? And how far would I go to people please? Now I don't think I'd go that far, but people do go far. 

2 

00:00:59

People go far and feel like they're in a few state and feel like it wasn't them. That was making the choice. And, and I believe that I believe that that can happen. I also just think it's interesting in the lens of like, feeling, having felt for a long period of your life, that you weren't allowed to have certain emotions. It makes sense to me that you would be surprising yourself with where you can go in your imagination, but that would also lead to, you know, surprisingly like our, we had a conversation one time on here where I said, I don't feel like I've ever seen you angry. So, and you, you said you do get angry, but I just wonder if maybe there's just a lot of unexpressed anger and this is a great way to get it out. 

1 

00:01:42

Totally. And I, and I think you're right. I think you're right on. And so, and I also think, and I wonder how, you know, how you feel about the idea that writing, right? Somebody, I wonder if people write and I don't know how you write, but if people read, I mean, I know a little how you write, but if peop, if people can ever write fully devoid from their own person, you know, like, like where they don't put themselves in their characters or their, if they're writing, I guess maybe if you're writing non-fiction I don't know. But when you write, do you agree that like each part of you and every, oh yeah, 100%. 

2 

00:02:24

And I, I, in reading the Stephen King book about writing, you know, he, he realized like years after the fact about the way that he was writing himself in his stories, like, I guess famously and in misery, he is when he was at the height of drug addiction. And he, at the time he did not feel that he was writing the story about himself, but that's what it ended up being. Yeah. I mean, in part, just because like, how else would you do it? I mean, you only have your own as close as you can be to anybody else. What you really stuck with 24 7 is the ruminations in your own mind, the reactions to things, your worldview, your worldview is, is so people can recognize a lot of things about their worldview, but then there's all kinds of things about their own perspective that they would never think unless they had occasion to see it, contrast it with something else and say, oh, wow, I think about that really differently. 

2 

00:03:21

So anyway, I think it's cool. I think it's great that you're going there and I'm excited to see where it goes. 

1 

00:03:32

Let me run this by you. I started seeing, so I had a therapist that was this Orthodox Jewish man that I stopped seeing. It was just it. I always what I, you know, and it's so blatant at the time after, but during, during, I never see, like, I'm looking for like a father figure. And, and he started to say things that were, and it's all I'm on the phone, you know, but like he has six kids and he wanted to, he started saying things like, do you think that this is because you never had kids kind of like why my emotions? 

2 

00:04:13

And I said, you know, 

1 

00:04:15

I don't know it could be, but I, and you know, it was it's interesting. So I just had to say, you know what, I'm so-and-so, I think that I'm going to take a pause on this. I just don't feel that were, I was proud of myself. I said, I just don't feel like it's a good match right now for me, a good fit. I couldn't just say it's so funny. I have to qualify it. Like, I couldn't just say this isn't a good fit. I was like, not a fit right now for trying to soften that. Just ridiculous stuff, but that's how I did it. And yeah. And so I, I was like, okay, well, do I want to get another therapist? Or do I want to, so I do see like a coach, like, what do I want to do? 

1 

00:04:55

So I started seeing, I had a first session with a coach outside in a park. Who's a, she coaches, she does a lot of career coaching, but I just, like, I've known her for a while. And I liked her and we got to some interesting stuff like, you know, and you've said some stuff about like inner child stuff. Like I never really felt like I could connect with the idea of making peace or taking care of my inner child. And I couldn't understand why. And I think I got to the point where the reason I I'm afraid to things that my inner child will hurt me or that I will hurt it. 

2 

00:05:35

Her. Yeah. 

1 

00:05:37

So, so I thought I'd tell you about that. 

2 

00:05:41

Hurt you. Any idea what you mean by that? Like 

1 

00:05:44

Sabotage, like my inner child is so angry at the way that my parents, and then I have been treating her that she will fuck things up. Hm. 

2 

00:05:54

Yeah. By misbehaving. Yes. 

1 

00:05:57

Misbehaving sabotaging. So there's not a trust there. There's not a trust. And I wouldn't have ever, whenever I, in the various forms of therapy and schooling that I've done in this area, I always felt really, it's not even that I bristled with when we did inner child work. It's like, I thought, well, I don't even know this is weird. I don't even know what this is. 

2 

00:06:23

Yeah. I totally, I can totally relate. And I think I have had the same exact opinion, this very cynical sort of point of view. It all seems so I would just want to roll my eyes talking about inner child, but I think it's like that thing that I was telling you about when I did that thing on clubhouse and everybody was playing and I was just afraid of it. I think it's just that I think you learn to hide the parts of yourself that get you in trouble in the world for whatever reason. And then if there are parts of yourself that you first identify when you were very young, they're locked away. Good. They're locked away. Real good. And there's a real, I mean, just intense fear about going there. 

2 

00:07:07

<...

Intro: Gina and Jen talk peasant DNA, jobs, the specific experience of being employed by the Catholic Church and how that convinced Nicolas Cage to hire Jen, making the quarterfinals of the CineStory TV writing contest.
Let Me Run This By You: on the topic of Woo Woo culture, does one have to buy in to the whole culture or can they just adopt the tenets? Also, having a finely tuned bullshit meter, the allure of MLMs, spending $90k at the Bodhi Tree, The Power of Now, The Secret, Oprah's podcast,
Interview: We talk to Larry Bates! The agony of clashing with your Audition class teacher, wanting to attend a "prestigious-sounding" school, almost becoming an aeronautical engineer, almost auditioning in New Orleans with a monologue by a quadriplegic character, My Children! My Africa!, the various factors that might play into choosing a school in Chicago (proximity to the Bears among them), living in U Hall, Sanctuary, the bliss of ignorance, choosing to transition away from being the class clown, having to maintain an academic scholarship in a setting where you're being graded on your art, charming your teachers, Antigone, Diary of Anne Frank, A Raisin in the Sun, being pre-cast in Six Degrees of Separation, Peter Pan, The Mountaintop, when people with unrealized artistic dreams are teachers who project their inadequacies on to you.

TRANSCRIPT:
Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:08):

I'm Jen Bosworth-Ramirez.

Gina Pulice (00:00:09):

and I'm Gina Pulice.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:11):

We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

Gina Pulice (00:00:15):

20 years later, we're digging deep -talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:20):

We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

Gina Pulice (00:00:31):

Really? I actually, I started to write a blog post. I couldn't,

Gina Pulice (00:00:34):

I've been really like struggling to figure out what I would want a topic for a blog post to be. And, um, so I was looking through my notes folder, where I keep all my little ideas and, and I had always wanted to write an essay about how I've had 37 jobs. And I wanted to write about, yeah, I've had 37 jobs, but of course I don't want to just list all my jobs I have to, you know, and it has to be gearing up to a point, but it got me down a rabbit hole yesterday because I started the essay by talking about how my doing my own DNA revealed I'm 100% peasant. Like there is not one, you know, noble or even anybody living above the poverty line.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:01:24):

Really. Wow.

Gina Pulice (00:01:26):

And so it makes a lot of sense because when I have a big job, like Aaron is frequently commenting.

Gina Pulice (00:01:33):

Wow. You just, uh, you just keep working, you just, you know, put your head down and keep working. And I'm like, yeah, what's, what's the alternative. But in my family, I think I got my first official job. I mean, it was a babysitter, et cetera, but I think I got my first official job kind of late because I was 17 and my sister worked all the way through high school. She worked, started working at the dairy queen. I think she was just barely 14. And my dad started working early. And, uh, anyway, so it's like, work is like, the work ethic is really, that's the one thing I'll say about my, you know, my family that's unequivocally positive. Is that everybody works hard. Yeah. You know, I have no slackers in my family,

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:17):

No slackers. And I think, you know, I, the guy I used to date that then died, he used to say, he used to say, um, loopy. That was my nickname. He would say, loopy, you are a worker, a worker, and a doer. You come from peoples that are workers and doers. You're a real doer. And that can be great. And that can also be a trap. Right. So doing, doing, as we know is, but it's gotten me. I've probably had, I probably haven't had 37, but I've had a lot. And you know that you and I had the same job.

Gina Pulice (00:02:51):

I just, you got to tell everybody the story about the job we had.

Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:55):

Well, you had at first, so there was a church. Um, I won't name it because I don't know. I ...

Intro: when you don't feel your best, do the thing anyway, Fake Famous, H&M is 40 shades of putty, Stitch Fix, 
Let Me Run This By You: Selfie vacations, Paul Stuart, rent a fake jet, Tevas, we are old enough to accidentally wear cool clothes.
Interview: We talk to Mickey O'Sullivan about body image, sibling relationships, getting bullied, Illinois State University, The Wake, Henry Moore is Melting at The Athenaeum, addiction, Sophia Bush, Chicago PD, Casey Affleck.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina .

3 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

2 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

3 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (35s):
Isolation is a funny thing because it's both the thing that you feel drawn towards when you don't feel well. But it's also the thing that, you know, that makes it worse. And I saw another thing that said, the more comfortable you get with you and who you are, the less likely you're going to want to isolate because it does, you know, it it's effort to be who you are when you're, you know, not kind of sinked up. Yeah. That's all just to say that when my kids have their aches and pains and two of my kids are real vocal about every single sensation they ever have in their body at any given time. Like, I can't think of a time where these two leave the house where I haven't heard my foot hurts.

2 (1m 20s):
My shoulder hurts. I have a headache. My stomach hurts. It hurts when I do this. And I, I believe it all. And yet I'm like, yeah, but if you stay home, I'm not going to let you be on a screen. So you're just going to literally be staring at the wall, feeling that I wouldn't, you rather go to school. Right.

1 (1m 38s):
Interesting. But Gina, it has taken me to 46 to actually realize that. So they're like, literally like a year ago, I probably would've been like, you know what, I'm just gonna stay home. And like, I have a headache, but like now I realize like, oh no, I think it's also like, time is slipping by like, I'm getting older, we're marching towards death. Like I got to get outside

2 (2m 3s):
Dude. And

1 (2m 4s):
You know, so like, I, I think it takes some what it takes, but yeah, man, I know that this pandemic has created the sense that the outside world is dangerous because literally it was, so it is like a war in that we, I felt like we were in a war when, when this all started, it was two years ago this month. Right. So right. I came to visit and then all to you and then all hell broke loose. And it, yeah, it created this thing of like the danger is outside the home. And so now it's like so easy to, but I actually realize that I feel worse at home because not only then do I have a headache, I have to deal with my fucking dog.

1 (2m 52s):
Who's a pain in the ass and get triggered by my husband who I think should be doing his job differently. And I hear him because we're in a teeny house. So that's torture. That's worse.

2 (3m 3s):
That's terrible. That's no good. My corollary for that is just, I do spend all of my, I mean, I do my, everything I do is, is at my house. I take care of my house. I take care of my kids and then I write and, and work, work on, you know, artistic stuff when you're home and your office, maybe miles experiences this too. Like you don't, you're never not at work in a way. So you're, I gotta do some, I gotta do something to have more of a separation. Maybe I should just like, bro, did you, did you see what about Bob? When he, he worked from home, but he clocked in. I should know that.

1 (3m 42s):
Well, the other thing that I was thinking, so I, okay. I thought about this cause I was asked. Okay. So I, a friend of mine said, I have this free thing for stitch fix. Right. One of these bottles. Okay. Right. I've done those before I did DIA and co and whatever it lost, its luster, it's a waste of money. Eventually. It feels like, and it's ridiculous. Okay. But good, good news about stitch fix is that, or one of these services is that one. I love the jeans they sent me, but two, you have to leave the house to return the things you don't want or you pay for the things. Right. Okay. So that's a side benefit. And so that got me out of the house and three I'm wondering, I was like, oh, maybe I should send my code to Gina.

1 (4m 26s):
But then I'm like, Gina, doesn't like to shut up. Right. And Gina doesn't like, so they do the shopping, but you also don't strike me as someone who would want to dress up for our meetings.

2 (4m 36s):
Exactly. And I did stitch fix and did it for a while. And then I was like, well, what am I dress for? This is a big conundrum. I have just life in general. And we should tell our listeners that, you know, we're, we're contemplating recording, doing a video recorder recording of these podcasts, which will be great, but then it'll make me feel like I need to, but maybe, but maybe it's okay to feel that way. Maybe it would be actually really good for my mental health to be like, I have to get dressed for my day.

1 (5m 8s):
I think it helps me. I mean, look, I'm literally wearing a tank top and a bra, but like

2 (5m 14s):
No, that's huge. Yeah,

1 (5m 15s):
Yeah, yeah. Right. No, and pants without an elastic ways. So like, I think it helps me in that. And some days it's just a pain in the ass, but it also helps me to think that, yeah, at least I'm trying in some area of my life, which we're all trying in all areas, but I'm just saying it's a visual representation of the fact that like, oh, I'm trying, the other thing about coworking that I like is I get to see other people's outfits. And sometimes they're really cute. Sometimes they're fucking horrible. Like it there's a lot of like 20 year olds that are here at co-working because are 20, 25. I'm a little old. So I like age everyone down, but like a 25 year olds that cause you can rent big offices here too.

1 (5m 59s):
Like for companies like marketing companies. So I see the fashions of the 20 five-year-olds and I'm like, whoa, you are opening my eyes to a whole hell scape of fashion that I did not know existed.

2 (6m 14s):
It's all so bad. It's all so bad. By the wa...