Graceful Atheist Podcast (David Ames)

This week’s show is a Deconversion not so Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Rachael Parsons Svendsen. Rachael is a Licensed Marriage and Family Counselor at RCPS Therapy. Rachael became a Christian at three years old. She went to Biola University and studied philosophy. Later in life, she experienced the effects of Religious Trauma: just setting foot in a Church she would break down in tears. Honesty is an important value for Rachael and part of what led her to deconversion. She talks about the difficulty of relationships with believers in her life while attempting to maintain honesty. Rachael and I investigate the experience of cognitive dissonance and religious trauma. We discuss the importance of the Easter story to Western thought, what is like to parent post-deconversion and the loss of the (false) sense of control after deconversion when difficult life events occur. Rachael points out that she does not have it all together post-deconversion. We agree we are all winging it. Links RCPS Therapy
https://rcpstherapy.com/ Small Words Big Stories
https://www.instagram.com/smallwords_bigstories/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap67Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/secular-grace/?gaid=gap67Adverse Religious Experiences
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/adverse-religious-experiences/?gaid=gap67 Promos Religion Shouldn’t Hurt
https://www.instagram.com/religion.shouldnt.hurt/Conference on Religious Trauma
https://pheedloop.com/CORT/site/home/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest today is Captain Cassidy. Cassidy blogs at Roll To Disbelieve on patheos.com. Her focus is on deconversion, counter-apologetics and generally describing the mind-warping nature of religion. Cassidy has an array of metaphors and analogies in her writing that make a vivid picture of what it is like to believe and then not to. Cassidy's "Extimony": She is a former Catholic, was briefly a baptist and then stayed a Pentecostal for a time. Until she realized the context of her faith mattered. While at a prayer group set in a normal university room “out of the context” of a church she realized it was all an act. She now describes herself as “a humanist, a skeptic, a freethinker and a passionate student of science, mythology, and history.” Join her “Commentariat,” a thriving community of commentators on her blog at https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/. Links Blog:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/ The Handbook for the Recently Deconverted
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/the-handbook/ The Unequally Yoked Club
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/the-uyc/ Newbie Guide
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/series-list-and-newbie-guide/ Pool of Faith
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2018/02/18/why-i-rejected-christianity-then-and-now/ Conservation of worship
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2016/06/03/christians-and-the-law-of-conservation-of-worship/ Doctrinal Yardstick
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2019/03/04/the-doctrinal-yardstick-illustrates-a-serious-problem-with-christianity-lsp-81/ Atrocity Apologetics
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2013/12/09/the-christians-guide-to-ex-christians-atrocity-apologetics/ Twitter:
https://twitter.com/casmadeherroll Cat Photos!
https://www.instagram.com/rolltodisbelieve/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

Today's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. Sassy Atheist is on the show. Sassy has a YouTube channel where she honestly describes her deconversion and her earnest desire to help others through the process. Hear her heart breaking story of a broken relationship with a loved one because of her deconversion.
Sassy's search for truth included Episcopalianism, Catholicism, Evangelicalism and eventually atheism. She also was on a search for community which she is now finding in the atheist community. Sassy exemplifies the themes of the podcast: deconversion, Secular Grace and self honesty. 
[To god] "Just do something to tell me that you are here and that you know that I am in pain."
-- Sassy Atheist
Links: Get in touch with Sassy Atheist:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SassyAtheist19
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf7XYBo2Lp54h4VU_lcfZXg Deconversion Anonymous episodes:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/
Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message
Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Jessica Moore, a life coach focusing on purity culture. Jessica grew up in a non-denominational Christian in Salt Lake City Utah surrounded by Mormons. She felt both the pressure to evangelize and be proselytized. Jessica went to an unaccredited Christian college where she first began to have doubts. She wound up traveling to Israel and seeing life on both sides of the Palestinian/Israeli border. She experienced the reverse culture shock coming back to the United States. Jessica put a lot of pressure on herself to be a “godly woman.” Purity culture had a damaging impact on her life. The focus of her work now is helping people recover from purity culture and religious abuse. Links Website
https://jessicamoorecoaching.com/ Series of Expansion blog
https://jessicamoorecoaching.com/blog Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/becomingyou.coaching/ Interact My appearance on the I Was A Teenage Fundamentalist podcast
https://pod.link/1558606464/episode/f8067a71cf74f38205420663954fceaf For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/11/27/jessica-moore-becoming-you/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Support the podcast on Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/gracefulatheistSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

CG grew up in strict religious home in Nigeria, where everything was banned except
Christian media. His family was heavily influenced by the Pentecostal Word-Of-
Faith/Prosperity movement. CG attended a tyrannical, authoritarian, and punitive college in Nigeria. CG, later on, moved to London, UK. In London, he saw that the world was bigger than
the Christian bubble that he had been raised in his whole life. He attended a popular
charismatic church where he met people from different cultures, beliefs, and denominations.
However, some of his friends challenged his Word-Of-Faith/Prosperity beliefs. He started
theological beliefs started changing as a result. CG, subsequently, moved to the USA to get a graduate degree at a Christian college. He
lived in the American south where, as an immigrant, he felt isolated and disconnected from the
Christian culture around him. This drove him to a personal intellectual journey, where he spent
hours reading books, listening to podcasts, and watching videos. After graduating with his master’s degree, CG came to the point where he could not
ignore the damage that Christianity was inflicting on his mental health and personal
development. He realised that he had to choose between completely losing his sanity &
freedom by remaining a slave to religion or abandoning his beliefs and accepting his
freedom/autonomy. A few days later, he became an Agnostic, and, subsequently, an Atheist. CG has been on the path of freedom, healing, and recovery ever since. He is
deconstructing sexual shame, self-hatred, misogyny, white supremacy, colonization, and
western imperialism (and other forms of injustice). He also seeks to heal the havoc that religion
has inflicted in Nigeria (and other African countries) through evangelism, cultural imperialism,
and colonization. Religion, significantly, contributes to the apathy and passivity of Nigerians,
which prevents them from fighting for their freedom and justice. CG is very passionate about humanism. He believes humanism is what our generation
needs to help make the world (especially Africa) a better place. He is an existential humanist, a
cosmopolitan humanist, and a planetary humanist. He believes that humanists need to have
freedom (autonomy), humility, compassion, hope, love for learning, curiosity, and open-
mindedness. Links African Polymath Blog
https://africanpolymath.wordpress.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/AfricanPolymath Reading list and resources
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/193EJcKRNIxAftLb6daW9f_blMaJ2QwrQ?usp=sharing Email
AfricanPolymath@gmail.com Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/deconversion/?gaid=gap61Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/secular-grace/?gaid=gap61Graceful Atheist Podcast
https://gracefulatheist.com/podcast/?gaid=gap61 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Janice Selbie. Janice is a Registered Professional Counselor (RPC) in Canada helping people through religious trauma syndrome. Janice is the director of the Conference on Religious Trauma. Janice’s personal story of fundamentalism, tragedy and eventual freedom is inspiringly and honestly told on the episode. Was it possible that everything I had believed had been wrong?
CORT2020 is sponsored by the Secular Therapy Project (a division of Recovering from Religion) and by Journey Free, which is Dr. Marlene Winell’s organization. Use the discount code GA036  for $60 off a standard ticket. Janice also provides a workshop called “Divorcing Religion” using the analogy of divorce to help people out of fundamentalist religion. It might take a tragedy (or more than one) to shake you lose from your cognitive dissonance.
This episode is another in the series of mental health professionals who specialize in religious trauma, religious abuse and the emerging term Adverse Religious Experiences. Links Conference on Religious Trauma
https://cort2020.com/ Twitter:
https://twitter.com/Wise_Counsellor
https://twitter.com/divorcereligion Secular Therapy Project
https://www.seculartherapy.org/ Journey Free
https://journeyfree.org/ Interact Series on Adverse Religious Experiences
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/adverse-religious-experiences/ Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Joel Berry, the podcast host of the Petty Prophet Podcast. Both his blog of the same name and the podcast are from the Christian believer and politically conservative perspectives. Joel is very much a believer. He had listened to the Graceful Atheist Podcast and was curious enough to initiate a conversation. [Due to fundamentalism] I think that I was teetering, when I was 19,
…, and I was deciding which direction to go with my life, teetering in my faith a little bit, and I joined the military, became a Marine Corps infantry man. Within a year I was in Fallujah.
[I was] a sheltered kid, [a] home schooled fundamentalist. I am taken out of the [United] States, out of my Christian bubble, and I spent a year in Iraq.
… I had a little Bible in my flak jacket that I read when I could.
Joel meets me in an honesty contest in which we both push each other but also take the time to listen to one another. I think it makes for a compelling conversation. What compels me about Christianity? I think the first thing was that, and this is experiential … ,
I was taken out of a Christian world …
and I open my Bible and I read the words of Jesus in the Gospel and the words of Jesus really drew me in, there was something about that man that seemed other worldly and amazing to me.
Joel experienced a deconstruction from a fundamentalist form of Christianity. He left the IFB. He left a fundamentalist Calvinist theology. But he maintains in his words “a childlike faith.” [I got into] aplogetics, the reasons to believe, the reasons for my faith, but all that stuff it’s all arguments, none of it is completely conclusive, and there is still an element of childlike faith involved.
This is a 20 Questions with a Believer episode. Joel and I take turns asking each other questions and then crucially allowing the other person to answer. Links Joel on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/JoelWBerry The Petty Prophet Blog:
https://thepettyprophet.com/ The Petty Prophet Podcast
https://thepettyprophet.com/homepage/petty-prophet-podcast/ Interact In the final thoughts section I make reference to this tweet: https://twitter.com/GracefulAtheist/status/1218199410682691594 Joel brings up several episodes he has listened to. Here are links to those episodes: Laura Anderson: Adverse Religious Experiences:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2019/10/31/laura-anderson-religious-abuse-and-religious-trauma/ Matthew Taylor: Confessions of a Young Earth Creationist:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2019/06/20/matthew-taylor-confessions-of-a-young-earth-creationist/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Sasha Sagan. Sasha has written a beautiful book called For Small Creatures Such As We: Rituals For Finding Meaning In Our Unlikely World. The book title comes from a quote in the book Contact: For small creatures such as we,
the vastness is bearable only through love.
Ann Druyan and Carl Sagan from Contact Sasha and the book she has written embodies Secular Grace and carries on the graceful life philosophies of her parents. Sasha has a galaxy spanning perspective on life that only the child of physicist can have. Sasha has an infectious joy about life. Listening to her or reading her work it is hard not to share in this joy. In her book, Sasha argues that we as human beings need ritual in our lives to mark the passage of time, to celebrate the momentous moments in our lives and to mourn the loss of loved ones. We discuss secular grief in the face of the loss of her father, Carl Sagan, when she was 14 years old. Sasha shares the wise parting words he had for her and the ongoing impact he has had on her and the world. Links Website
https://www.sashasagan.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/SashaSagan Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/sashasagan/ For Small Creature Such As We
https://www.amazon.com/Small-Creatures-Such-We-Unlikely-ebook/dp/B07N5JQXFK/ Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Luke J. Janssen, M.Sc., Ph.D., M.T.S., Professor Emeritus, Dept. Medicine, McMaster University, and co-host of the Recovering Evangelicals podcast. He is a scientist in medical research. During a faith crisis he began taking courses on theology which turned into an M.T.S degree. Luke tells his story in four 15 year phases: his early years as a nominal Reformed Christian, his young adulthood as a Pentecostal/Charismatic fundamentalist, a desconstruction phase, and where he is now, with a “small part of him that won’t let go” and a belief in a creative force. Luke and his co-host, Boyd Blundell, cover many aspects of desconstruction on the Recovering Evangelicals podcast. They discuss various apologetic and scientific arguments and honestly reveal what they do an do not believe now and why. Links Website
https://lukejjanssen.wordpress.com/ Recovering Evangelicals
https://lukejjanssen.wordpress.com/recovering-evangelicals/ Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/04/03/luke-janssen-recovering-evangelicals/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest today is Brian Peck. He is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW) who specializes in religious-based trauma in his private practice and who helps guide individuals through their deconversions with evidence-based practices online. His practice is called Room to thrive and Brian describes it as “secular therapy for human well being.” It is trauma-informed therapy and coaching. Brian has had a huge impact on me and my thinking. It was a great pleasure to get to pick his brain. You can hear me learning in real-time during our discussion. If you have survived trauma (of any sort), your nervous system did exactly what it needed to do to survive.
This episode is another in an ongoing series of mental health professionals who specialize in religious trauma, religious abuse and the emerging term Adverse Religious Experiences. We humans need community to survive.
Links Room To Thrive
https://www.roomtothrive.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/RoomToThrive Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/RoomToThrive/ Viral "Trauma is not your fault (period)" post
https://www.facebook.com/RoomToThrive/posts/2496151297329417 How and Why We Believe
https://lifeaftergod.org/059-how-and-why-we-believe-part-1/ Interact I quote Brian in my article on the Steps of Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Adverse Religious Experiences series:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/adverse-religious-experiences/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Jack Robertson. Jack is a returning guest and an integral part of the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group. Earlier this year, Jack’s youngest daughter, Emily, was in an accident, suffering severe burns on her body. Jack discusses how his online community and IRL friends stepped in to support his family. He also discusses the anger and hurt their family experience at the platitudes and cliches of the Christians in their lives. Emily’s clearheadedness, dark sense of humor and incredible resilience has brought her a long way in the healing process—mentally, physically and emotionally. Jack and the rest of their family are also healing in their own ways, supporting one another and seeking professional help. We are Human. We are social beings whose needs are not met by “a guy in the sky.” Our needs are met through our relationships with one another, especially those who are closest to us. Links Go Fund Me
https://gofund.me/bba4d01e Jack’s Deconversion episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/31/jack-robertson-deconversion-story/ Kenyetta and Jack Save the World
https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/kenyetta-jack-save-the-world-4099553
Graceful Atheist on Kenetta and Jack Save the World
https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/kenyetta-jack-save-the-world-4099553/episodes/the-abcs-of-grace-127398471 Musings of an ADD Mind
https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/musings-of-an-add-mind-2160439 Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/08/28/jack-emilys-story/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

AMA? Try AAA. Ask Arline Anything. This week’s guest is your community manager, Arline. Arline tells us what she has learned from managing the community and interviewing guests. She explains how her views have changed on Christianity and fundamentalism after deconversion. She let’s us know what makes her mad and what gives her hope. She reveals her love language(s). Join me in thanking Arline for all the work she does for the community and the podcast. Let her know she is appreciated. Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/12/11/ask-arline-anything-2022/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Support the podcast onPatreon
https://www.patreon.com/gracefulatheistSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Richard Swan. Richard grew up Catholic, became an Anglican and then moved on to Pentecostalism. He was a worship leader and an active member of the Christian music scene including touring as Graham Kendrick‘s choir director. He began to notice that regardless of his person life the people responded in worship under his leadership. This began his questioning which eventually led to his deconversion. Post-deconversion, Richard is now the director of London City Voices, a non-religious community choir. Richard has figured out how to use his passion for music to build a secular community. In our conversation, we talk about the power of music to bring people together, how it can be manipulated and what it takes to be a community builder.
Links Website
https://www.londoncityvoices.co.uk/ YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCE7166Y1HBO7_lh7_yjE4g Twitter
https://twitter.com/LondonCityVoice Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/412432238841455/ Interact Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Jimmy. As early as the beginning of 2020 Jimmy was still in the closet trying to determine how he would come out as an atheist and humanist. By mid February he had told his family and was bracing for his church to find out. Jimmy was a serious and dedicated Christian drawn to Calvinism by family and the intellectual rigor. As the years went by and his attempts at self-betterment were not realized he began to be drawn by the pragmatism of Stoicism. He eventually realized that counseling would be beneficial, though this had so far been off the table. Through these active measures he began to see some success at self-betterment. Jimmy’s chief concern was not damaging the relationships with his believing friends and family. He was very careful to show them he loved them and had no contempt for their faith. "It is one of these things where I think, this has got to be a band-aide I am ripping off and not a cancer I am injecting into my family. And I am going to do my darnedest to make sure that this works and that they know I love them." For the full show notes including Jimmy's book recommendations and quotes from jimmy:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2020/09/20/jimmy-deconversion-anonymous/ Interact Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Image Attribution "memento Mori, 'To This Favour' by William Michael Harnett" by Bob Ramsak is licensed with CC BY-NC-ND 2.0.
To view a copy of this license, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/ Audio Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is April Ajoy, viral Tiktok’r, youTuber and podcaster. She is a “recovering conservative humorously detoxing religion.” April had a unique childhood. She was homeschooled and spent half of each year in Pentacostal spaces and the other half traveling the US with her family, singing and evangelizing. Her parents were evangelists and her grandfather was a pastor of a megachurch, so even as a young person April had seen cracks in the traditions and beliefs. She didn’t see them as systemic, though, only random, separate incidents. Over the next decade, tragedy hits April’s family and God does not step in to thwart it, a family member comes out to her and she realizes she cannot continue believing much of what white Christianity has painted as “good news”. Today, much of April’s childhood beliefs have been dissected and thrown out, but she is loving others in a much deeper way. She still considers herself a Christian and is fighting injustices in her own creative way. “Humor is how I cope with trauma.” On social media, April tackles all the difficult subjects—white supremacy, misogyny, purity culture, the absurd things evangelicals post online and more! She brings levity and fun to serious topics in a way that will make you laugh out and that is good medicine. Links TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@aprilajoy Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/aprilajoy/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/aprilajoyr Evangelicalish on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/c/Evangelicalish Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/03/20/april-ajoy-evangelicalish/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Content Warning: Spiritual, physical and sexual abuse. Depression, post-partum depression, infertility and suicidal idealization. Arline guest hosts interviewing author and podcaster, Nicki Pappas. Nicki Pappas is a writer who critiques the evangelical establishment that shaped her. She’s the author of As Familiar as Family: Leaving the Toxic Religion I Was Groomed For. She’s also the host of the Broadening the Narrative podcast where she interviews guests who are broadening the narratives she was taught within white evangelicalism. She has three young children with Stephen Pappas, her steady partner in the chaos since 2010. Through her work, she desires to spark hope in the world around her and live out an embodied faith. Links Website
https://www.nickipappas.com/ Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/broadeningthenarrative/ Broadening the Narrative Podcast
http://broadeningthenarrative.blogspot.com/ #AmazonPaidLinks
As Familiar as Family: Leaving the Toxic Religion I Was Groomed For
https://amzn.to/3FlMRez Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/12/04/nicki-pappas-as-familiar-as-family/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Support the podcast onPatreon
https://www.patreon.com/gracefulatheistSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Robert Peoples of Affinis Humanity. Robert grew up in a Black Baptist church in New Jersey. When he was young, he enjoyed church but was an inquisitive child with many questions and no satisfying answers. As a teenager, Robert looked for answers outside the church—from Thomas Paine to Allah to the Buddha. By 18 years old, Robert could no longer believe in anything supernatural. His understanding of the world came from philosophy, history and science. This was incredibly difficult for his family, but they continued to faithfully love and support him. One frustration Robert has with the Black church community is that it works to change unjust systems but then uses phrases like, “We couldn’t have done this without God.” In recent years, Robert has been working with a political non-profit to ensure the “separation of state and church” and to change unjust policies. Human suffering is caused less by individuals “in need of heart change,” and more by systemic racism, homophobia, classism and other inequities. [Humanism] has increased my love for humanity exponentially.
I no longer love people with conditions. In the midst of all the work to be done, Robert is hopeful. He is effecting change in the world and reminding others that “being human is enough.” He stands in awe of the beauty of nature, his daughters and this short life. His story is one of world-changing secular grace. Links Affinis Humanity
https://www.affinishumanity.org/Secular Coalition for Arizona
https://secularaz.org/ Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/04/10/robert-peoples-affinis-humanity/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Our guest this week is Dave. Dave grew up in the Mennonite Brethren faith and followed all the rules until at age 50, a gift from his son made him begin to ask questions. Dave’s love for his family and a desire for truth are equally apparent in his story. He asked hard questions and was never given satisfying answers. Knowing he had to tell his wife about his waning faith, Dave feared the consequences. Fortunately, Dave and his family have chosen to turn toward one another in love. It has been a trying journey for Dave, but he knows that pursuing truth and loving the people around you give life purpose. Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/06/05/dave-gossen-agnostic-and-done/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Thomas. Thomas is a Missionary Kid. He was very close to his mother who passed away in her 40s when he was in middle school. Thomas went through real depression for years after losing his mother and losing his faith. We discuss the hardships of grieving a loved one without comforting beliefs. He went through bouts of self-medication including being immersed in the massively multiplayer online game, World of Warcraft. Thomas went on to become a professional scientist. The meditative nature of running was helpful. He also discovered actual meditation gave him peace. A rich and varied diet of podcasts also helped him along the way. He says he now experiences real joy that was only promised to him as a Christian. Interact Nominate and Vote for the Graceful Atheist Podcast on the Podcast Awards
https://www.podcastawards.com/app/nominations Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/07/11/thomas-deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap80 Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap80 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap80Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap80 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. This week’s guest is Anne. Anne grew up in a loving and happy Christian home in a large city where her father pastored a small reformed church. As a teen, her faith was very real to her, and a few years later, she attended a Christian college, but struggled mentally and physically. Anne left that school and attended a Bible college, but she quickly realized she would be excluded from most ministry opportunities because of her gender. After a short and sometimes insulting experience in children’s ministry and then a sickness that went on for man years, Anne felt like God had “benched” her, but she continued praying and hoping. Over the next many years, Anne’s family met one obstacle after another—toxic or cult-like churches, physical and mental illnesses, Christians backing Trump and even loved ones passing away. Finally, she couldn’t take any more. “I couldn’t hear from God…I couldn’t worship. I couldn’t hypnotize myself with the piano. I couldn’t do anything…[I was] done.” Then during the Pandemic, Anne read a single book that made her stop and think for a moment. Then, her questions started coming and couldn’t be stopped. From the outside, it may seem like Anne’s deconversion was quick, but she had given God plenty of time to reveal himself. Recommendations

• The Lasting Supper
• Deconversion Anonymous
• Harmonic Atheist
• MythVision
• Bart Ehrman
• Darkmatter2525
• Holy Koolaid

Books #AmazonPaidLinks
Jesus & John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez
https://amzn.to/388uqxl Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/05/08/anne-deconversion-anonymous/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Judah. Judah grew up “Church of God, Pentecostal adjacent,” where Judah’s father was convinced, “God is alive in these people.” By eight years old, Judah was speaking in tongues and absorbed into eschatology—the study of the end times. Around ten, at a more “separatist” church, the family started homeschooling. His church and family were convinced they were right and everyone else was wrong. Answers in Genesis was the science curriculum, but Judah was also exposed to science on public television. As a teen, another pillar began to crack. Judah believed his attraction to guys and girls was sinful. It felt like God was two opposing forces—one god you lean into for love and grace, the other shames and condemns you. Judah doubled down on young earth creationism and repressing his sexual attractions and dove deeper into eschatology. The family’s eschatology changed over time, but 2012 was the year the end of the world would come. Eventually 2012 comes and 2012 goes. This undid Judah. He spends the next three years learning what else was not true, debunking creationism, conspiracies and various theological matters. Judah was a more liberal Christian for a while but eventually science and logic led him to become an agnostic atheist. He came out with his beliefs to his family in dramatic fashion and hasn’t looked back. His future is in his own hands and whether his family takes responsibility for their beliefs and actions during his childhood is in theirs. He now lives a life true to himself and his own values and ethics. Links Judah’s blog
https://jmedic.medium.com/ Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group! Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Hannah Ramos. Hannah grew up in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist family, one of ten homeschooled children. Dissuaded from going to bible college, she waited for her Prince Charming. When Jose showed up to speak at her church, she knew he was “God’s choice” for her as a husband. Very early in their marriage, Jose took over as pastor of a Spanish speaking church. Everything seemed to be going according to God’s plan, until three years later when Jose admitted to Hannah that he no longer believed. Suddenly, she found herself in an unequally yoked relationship. For six years, Hannah focused on her own faith and raising their three children as believers, and they loved one other through this time. Jose supported Hannah’s faith, and Hannah had given up on changing Jose’s mind. Hannah had the space to begin to question her own faith. Her children innocently asked her to explain the Trinity, and they were not satisfied with her answers. She read through the Bible, asking, “But is this true?” She no longer could assume that it was. Finally the pat answers Hannah received no longer satisfied her, and she admitted to herself that she also no longer believed. To Jose’s amazement (and slight disbelief), Hannah revealed that she was no longer a Christian. Today, they are closer than ever, and their children are free to decide for themselves what they believe. Hannah has found a peace she did not think was possible. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/14/hannah-ramos-unequally-yoked-to-deconverted/ Lars and Christie episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/09/26/lars-and-christie-deconverted-family/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Stephanie, the host of the StephUp Podcast where she “delve[s] into different topics to learn more about the world and more about ourselves.” Stephanie had me on her podcast to delve into atheism. In this episode, Stephanie describes her journey of deconstruction of Christianity, politics and conservative culture. She is focused on caring for people and shedding racism, sexism and abusive behavior within and without the Church. Stephanie lives up to the honesty contest while describing: the burden of a “relationship with God,” purity culture and being single in the Church, and her disappointments with Church leadership. Ultimately, I believe Stephanie is an important voice of change within the Church. Links StephUp Podcast
https://stephuppodcast.com/ What should Dragon Do
https://www.stephanieannwebb.com/ Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/stephup_podcast/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/steph_ann_webb My interview on the StephUp podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lets-talk-about-atheism-with-the-graceful-atheist/id1527866039?i=1000530710497 Interact Jon Steingard interview
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/01/03/jon-steingard-the-wonder-and-the-mystery-of-being/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Content Warning: This week’s story includes references to physical and emotional abuse, mental illness and suicidal ideation. Listener discretion is advised. This week’s guest is Jan. Jan grew up in a strict fundamentalist household which made church safer, and that disconnect planted the first seeds of doubt. She went off to a Christian university where she was told to expect “signs and wonders”, but they didn’t happen. Becoming a missionary wife was supposed to satisfy her “need to serve God” but it didn’t happen. Again and again, as she pursued God, she was let down. Trauma, depression and unfulfilled promises slowly broke her, and even then, God didn’t show up. She had been doing it all on her own, and it would take a divorce and leaving the Church completely, for her to see that. After finding care and support in therapy and “spiritual but not religious” communities, Jan now supports others struggling with mental illness. She is living a life filled with grace both for herself and others. Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/08/21/jan-mental-health-and-deconstruction/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest today is the Counter Apologist AKA John Lopilato. John is active on Twitter as @CounterApologis. He has a YouTube channel called Counter Apologist. He is also one of the new co-hosts of the RealAtheology podcast. John has taught himself philosophy, apologetics and counter apologetics. In fact, he learned apologetics in a desperate attempt to keep his faith. Ultimately, he found the apologetics wanting. He became the Counter Apologist because he wanted there to be sophisticated answers to apologetic arguments that could not be easily dismissed. John can be found online interacting with apologists and discussing the relative merits and flaws of apologetic arguments. I appreciate John's approach. He is often more than fair to his interlocutors. In my conversation with him, he is very kind to my naive questioning. We discuss a wide range of topics including: debate culture, the burden of proof, lacktheism, the rationality of faith, values vs facts and how difficult it is to make a compelling argument when the two sides may have differing values and presuppositions. "I threw myself into apologetics to try and salvage my faith." Links: John's Blog:
http://counterapologist.blogspot.com/ John on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CounterApologis John on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CounterApologist
RealAtheology Podcast
https://twitter.com/RealAtheology/
https://www.facebook.com/RealAtheology/
For further study: Kalam Cosmological Argument:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalam_cosmological_argument Falsifiability:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability A and B Theory of Time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_series_and_B_series
Interact: Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest today is Dave Warnock. Dave was an Evangelical christian for almost 40 years. Many of those years were spent in ministry in one form or another. Dave decoverted around seven years ago. His deconstruction and deconversion cost him close family relationships. But he has found love, affection and support in the non-believing community. In early 2019 Dave was diagnosed with ALS (Lou Gehrig’s disease), which is terminal. Rather than be overcome with grief, Dave began to talk honestly about dying as an atheist and living your best moments while you can. This became what is now known as “Dying Out Loud”. Dave is on a “world” podcast tour spreading his message of secular strength and hope even in the face of dire circumstances. Quotes: “Dying out loud is really living out loud.” In regards to the fear of punishment and hell: “It ain’t real let it go.”
“Its gonna be OK, listener, it is gonna be OK.” “We don’t remember days we remember moments”
“Life is a collection of moments”
“Wait, goddammit, wait. This is a moment. Don’t miss it.” “Carpe the fucking diem!” “I am more interested in the quality of my life than the quantity of my days.” “The human connection is beautiful to me. It never ceases to amaze me how beautiful that is” Links: Dave on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/DaveWarnock.DyingOutLoud/ Dave’s Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/dyingoutloud Dave’s Dying Out Loud at First Unitarian Society of Minneapolis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLQu5A4h5Q Clergy Project:
http://clergyproject.org/
Interact Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message
Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Keke. Keke grew up a PK. Her family was in church, “running the show,” anytime the doors were open. Life at home was difficult for Keke, however, so the church provided a safe haven. But over time, domestic violence, mental health problems and other family secrets were too great a burden for her to carry. After high school, she joined the military, got married and even led her husband to Jesus. Then in 2017, as she was reading a most peculiar bible story to her daughter, she started on a deconstruction journey that she never saw coming. Keke now is learning everything she can about ancient mythologies, African American history and many other cultures. She’s also raising her children to be open to the world and its many cultures. She knows that human connection is truly what we need—whether with our ancestors through stories or with those around us today. Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/10/16/keke-deconversion-of-a-pk/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Suandria Hall. Suandria is a trauma informed counselor specializing in faith transitions. Her practice, My Choice My Power, is online and she offers mental health counseling to residents in Colorado and life coaching sessions online, by phone, and email for anyone. Suandria tells her story of being groomed for ministry in a very Charismatic community with rigorous honesty. In her early adulthood she began to question and eventually deconverted. She had a positive experience with a therapist who “held space” for her shifting faith positions. She then went on to become a secular counselor to help others through the same process. We talk about the power of parents to influence children. And the damage that can occur when parents pass that responsibility on to an invisible god. Her approach to counseling is trauma informed and acknowledges Adverse Religious Experiences and religious trauma. She helps people going through the process of deconstruction and deconversion while being open to all faith positions. Links Suandria’s Counseling Site
https://www.mychoicemypower.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/mychoicemypower Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/mychoicemypowercounseling/ Interact Adverse Religious Experiences series
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/adverse-religious-experiences/Steps of Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2020/10/18/suandria-hall-my-choice-my-power/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Meghan Crozier, the writer behind The Pursuing Life blog and co-host of Thereafter Podcast. Meghan grew up in an Evangelical Free church and she was all in. After high school, she went to a christian university, signing a pledge to become a missionary. Her life turned out differently, and though it took years to be okay with that, she is now extremely thankful she never became a missionary. At the beginning of the pandemic while so much was changing in everyone’s lives, she clung to her faith. She journaled, prayed for an hour and read her bible every morning. Since 2020, she began to see other aspects of her church that she could not unsee—homophobia, gaslighting, ableism. Then the January 6th insurrection happened. After her church’s response to this disturbing event, Meghan knew she had to reconsider almost everything her life. Meghan now holds her Christianity very loosely. She’s found community and connection online through Twitter, and through her blog and podcast. Meghan is an important voice in the deconstruction world, influencing people with the spoken and written word. Links Twitter
https://twitter.com/thepursuinglife
https://twitter.com/thereafterpod The Pursuing Life
https://www.thepursuinglife.com/ Thereafter Podcast
https://linktr.ee/thereafterpod Prog/Post Xian Deconstruction Coffee Hour
6 AM PST / 9 AM EST on Twitter Spaces Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/02/27/meghan-crozier-prog-post-christian-deconstruction/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is the Nigerian podcaster, The Ranting Atheist. He grew up in a strict Pentacostal church where his parents were ministers. At home, his parents were tough on him and his brothers, and made sure they attended Christian schools, even into university. While TRA was in university, following all the rules, his parents parents were rising in the ranks of their church. All was well until “church politics” got them. After that, his parents’ health began to decline, but TRA was still a believer. But as years passed and Nigeria suffered an economic recession, TRA’s faith in the Christian God started to wane. Between conversations about the Bible with a friend, Youtuber DarkMatter2525 and a false prophet in his church, many seeds of doubt were planted. As an atheist, TRA wanted to find a way to assist other Nigerian atheists. His podcast The Ranting Atheist has been the perfect tool. Every weekend a new episode is released “to let Nigerian atheists know that they are not crazy and they are not alone.” TRA is living out graceful atheism one podcast episode at a time. Links The Ranting Atheist Podcast
https://www.podpage.com/TRAtheist/ Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/tratheistpod/ Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group! Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Logan Thomas who blogs at Beyond Belief. Logan interned at St. Andrews, a famous church in the UK. He went on to Bible college and eventually perused a Master’s degree in theology where he studied biblical studies, biblical languages, history and textual criticism where he began to question. After discovering his sexuality, Logan came out during his internship at St. Andrews. He discusses coming out twice. He started with a more progressive view on homosexuality. But between the Church’s stances and the biblical texts, he realized these things could not be reconciled. We discuss the differences between UK and US churches handling of the LGBTQ community. Logan cares about the truth. As he was deconstructing what he believed about the bible based on what he was being taught at Bible college he came to a point where he could no longer believe. Logan tells his story with a great deal of honesty and self-reflection on his former faith. Now Logan has a social media presence where he blogs and creates videos asking questions about faith and doubt. Links Beyond Belief Blog
https://www.beyondbelief-blog.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/itsbeyondbelief Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/its_beyondbelief/ YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw-jiLmRFSpxKuSldp7bzEQ/ Interact Full Show Notes
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2021/01/24/logan-beyond-belief/ Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/A Humanist Podcast
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/podcast/ Rate and Review the Graceful Atheist Podcast
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/graceful-atheist-podcast-1136736 Attribution
"Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Bart Campolo. Bart is the host of the Humanize Me Podcast. He is the author of “Why I Left, Why I Stayed.” Along with his famous Evangelical father, Tony Campolo, Bart is the subject of John Wright’s documentary: Leaving my Father’s Faith. If that is not enough, Bart is also the Humanist Chaplain at the University of Cincinnati. Bart and I discuss graceful ways of talking with people with whom we disagree, having conversations that are difficult that touch on religion, race and politics and changing one’s mind. I point out that Bart has been particularly public with some of these conversations, including a book and documentary with his dad, Tony Campolo, a podcast episode with his son, Roman, where they disagree on the hope or lack thereof for our species and a recent podcast episode on race. In short, Bart wears his heart on his sleeve and lives his life out loud with humility, honesty and grace. We discuss humanism and the burden of being hopeful. Bart pushes back on my assertion that everyone needs awe, belonging and community. According to Bart different people need different amounts of each of those things. At the same time, Bart is facilitating a healthy secular community in Cincinnati providing just those things for the lucky few who attend. They put it this way:

• Commitment to loving relationships
• Making things better for other people
• Cultivating gratitude and wonder in life
• Worldview humility

I normally have a few quotes from the episode, but as I was writing them down it became a transcript. Bart is eminently quotable. Listen to the show to find out. I will leave you with just one which you will need to listen to the show to understand: Show your work!
Be sure to listen to the end for a funny story I tell that relates to Bart’s father, Tony Campolo, during my time at bible college. Links Website
https://bartcampolo.org/ Podcast
https://bartcampolo.org/humanizeme Documentary
https://campolofilm.com/ Book
https://bartcampolo.org/why-i-left-why-i-stayed Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Jessica Hagy. Jessica is the artistic and comedic genius behind the blog, Indexed. She has recently written a book titled, The Humanist Devotional. Jessica is an artist, an author, a comedian, and a marketing and social media guru. Get as humble as you can.
Jessica grew up secular and calls herself a humanist. It is not that she rejected the bible, but rather that there was so much more for her to learn. In the episode she uses the analogy of a library card as granting access to the world’s knowledge. Access that she took advantage of. Small talk can get big fast.
We walk through her 10 steps on how to be an interesting person and re-imagine them as how to find meaning and purpose as a humanist. Do something!
Links Blog
https://thisisindexed.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/jessicahagy Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jessica_hagy/ 10 Steps on how to be interesting
https://inkandescentwomen.com/the-women/author-jessica-hagy/ The Humanist Devotional
https://www.amazon.com/Humanists-Devotional-Meditations-Worlds-Greatest-ebook/dp/B07YCT8NNY/ How To Be Interesting
https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Interesting-Simple-Steps-ebook/dp/B00ANSW8MW/ Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Why I am a humanist
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/why-i-am-a-humanist/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

After years in the mission field and in pastoral ministry Paul is done. Paul is Deb's (last week's guest) husband. Deb's episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/06/26/deb-is-done/ Interact For quotes, recommendation and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/07/03/pual-is-done/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Joel Furches. Joel is a psychologist researching topics of religion. He has a BA in psychology an MA in education, and he is working on his PhD in Behavioral Analysis. He he has focused on conversions and deconversions and has written a well researched article entitled: Why Do Christians Become Atheists? A Case Study. Joel and I discuss his research and walk through his model of deconversion. We discuss the “Market place of ideas” and “The Christian Bubble.” We define the terms disaffiliation, deconstruction and deconversion. Joel’s advice for Christians who are seeing more deconversions: [What] I would say to Christians in general is that it is not their responsibility to re-covert [the deconvert].
They have not failed because this person deconverted and they will probably not succeed in re-converting them.
It is to respect the person who has deconverted, respect their experience. Give them the right that any other human being would have which is to defend their views. And interact or engage in those views as important.
Links Joel’s Website:
https://joelfurches.com/ Switching Sides
FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/416964269222311
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SidesSwitchingWhy Do Christians Become Atheists? A Case Study
https://hubpages.com/politics/Why-do-Christians-Become-Atheists-A-Case-StudyPerez, S. and Vallières, F., 2019. How Do Religious People Become Atheists? Applying a Grounded Theory Approach to Propose a Model of Deconversion.Secularism and Nonreligion
http://doi.org/10.5334/snr.108 Interact Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest today is the producer and subject of the podcast, Hiding in Plain Sight. Tom is a non-believer living in the UK. He decided to explore the hidden things that surround him that he has so far left unexplored. He takes on the task of a search for meaning within the Christian framework. The Hiding In Plain Sight podcast is very well produced, it has its own original music and it takes an honest and sincere look at Christianity in its first series. Ultimately, the podcast is about the search for meaning and the examination of one's life. Tom does this with humility and sincerity. It is a riveting story that you must hear. Tom's reason for doing the podcast: "For most of my adult life, I have spent a few hours a day on one of London's busy commuter trains. It has given me time to think. I have often stared out of the window and felt like I was missing something, some meaning. This podcast is a search for that meaning and in each series, we will explore something new, I will try on new ways of living and thinking like a new pair of shoes, and let you know how it feels, the comfortable and uncomfortable parts."
Links: Twitter:
https://twitter.com/Tomhipspodcast Hiding In Plain Sight
https://hipspodcast.com/ Original Music:
https://hipspodcast.com/the-soundtrack/
Recommendations: Henri Nouwen's Return of the Prodigal Son:
https://www.amazon.com/Return-Prodigal-Son-Story-Homecoming/dp/0385473079/ Les Miserables in the US on PBS:
https://www.pbs.org/show/les-miserables/episodes/season/2019/
Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Derek Webb, musician, song writer and public deconstructor. For 10 years, Derek was a member of the Christian rock band, Caedmon’s Call. He then went on to a solo career where he focused on self reflection in his art. During that time, Derek began to desconstruct. He did so publicly in his music and on social media. For Derek’s Fingers Crossed album, “the tale of two divorces,” Derek made himself available to his audience for criticism. He and his team turned this into the podcast, The Airing of Grief. What could have been a public expression of anger and hostility at Derek’s change of heart, wound up being people describing their own deconstruction. It was a poignant reminder that we are not alone in this process. Derek’s next album, Targets, is a joyous and rebellious rock celebration of deconstruction. Derek’s current project, The Jesus Hypothesis, takes a second look at his former theological beliefs. For this project, Derek has made himself even more available to his audience by live streaming the writing and recording process for his Patreon supporters. Derek is the perfect guest for the podcast as his art, music and personal style exemplify an both honesty contest and Secular Grace. Links Derek’s Website
https://www.derekwebb.com/ The Airing Of Grief
https://www.theairingofgrief.com/ Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/derekwebb/ Patreon
https://patreon.com/derekwebb Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/01/02/derek-webb-the-jesus-hypothesis/Is it just that I had the wrong image of god?
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/11/17/is-it-just-that-i-had-the-wrong-image-of-god/The Bubble
https://gracefulatheist.com/2018/01/15/the-bubble/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution Transition music by Derek Webb from the Fingers Crossed album "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is David. David is the son and grandson of pastors. He does has have good memories of growing up in the church and he credits his parents with restraint. As an adult, he became more fundamentalist. He was a Southern Baptist and went through a very strong Calvinist phase. David taught apologetics classes. He delved into apologetics to qualm his own questions. But teaching apologetics on topics like the Trinity led to more doubt not less. It was a re-read through the Bible where he began to recognize the god of the Bible is not a loving one. The full implications of Reformed theology began to have horrifying implications. Ultimately, David deconverted and now calls himself agnostic. Today David is the co-host of the That’s Questionable podcast Links Website
http://thatsquestionable.net/ Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thatsquestionablepodcast/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/thatsquestiona1 Interact Nominate and Vote for the Graceful Atheist Podcast on the Podcast Awards
https://www.podcastawards.com/app/nominations Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/07/25/david-thats-questionable/?gaid=gap82 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap82Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap82 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Jose Ramos, Hannah’s husband from her episode two weeks ago. Jose’s family converted to Independent Fundamentalist Baptist and his father became a pastor. They were taught that the IFB had the “pure word of God,” and it was their purpose to evangelize and change the world. Throughout his teens, Jose’s only rebellion was, “like a month partying with [his] brothers.” Later, he went to Bible College, and then started preaching. He met Hannah and took over his father’s Spanish speaking church. Studying the Bible for ministry, however, brought more questions and doubts. Over the next year, he continued preaching but knew he didn’t believe. He left the ministry and later told Hannah why. After another hard and depressive year, he knew he was agnostic. Jose gave Hannah the space to go on her own journey. They still attended church as a family, but he did not try to change her. Today, their stories can give comfort to other couples facing religious doubts and uncertainties. Jose’s honesty and vulnerability show the grace and goodness in his own human heart. No more looking forward to heaven or fearing hell, simply being present in each movement and looking for the beauty that’s found there. Recommendations Books #PaidLinks Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari
https://amzn.to/3xuaddv (Also available in graphic novel form)
https://amzn.to/319PbEF
https://amzn.to/3E93tV2 Homo Deus by Yuval Noah Harari
https://amzn.to/3CXUNiF Podcasts Sam Harris’ Making Sense
https://www.samharris.org/ Links Hannah’s episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/14/hannah-ramos-unequally-yoked-to-deconverted/ Clergy Project
https://clergyproject.org/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Doug. Doug became interested in church when he was in junior high, and when Doug is in, he’s all in. He was a believer throughout high school, college and into the military. But then books and magazines happened. Doug began reading more “skeptical literature,” and the questions began. Doug’s faith unraveled while he was “an atheist in a foxhole,” but faith in the supernatural was unnecessary. He needed his own strength, and the strength of the people around him. He has since been an atheist pastor, finding the human connection he and his wife needed, without changing their beliefs or forsaking their values. As Brene Brown says, “We are hardwired to connect with others,” and Christianity has no longer cornered the marked on community and belonging. Links Unitarian Universalist Church of Tullahoma
https://tullahomauu.org/index.html Doug’s Short story “The Faith I Left Behind” is in the book, The Sandbox: Dispatches from Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
https://amzn.to/3RYrHaZ Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/09/11/doug-traversa-atheist-minister/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is artist Ursula Schneider. As a child, neither her charismatic church nor her unstable home were safe for her. There was a lot of mental illness at home and Ursula often felt abandoned by the church. Their family was simply “too much.” Ursula grew up, married young and began going to church again. As an adult, she needed something real to her. She saw that something in the women at church, so she dove right in—daily prayer, bible studies, women’s retreats, all of it. But Ursula kept bumping up against a certain church doctrine: women cannot teach men. She was a gifted leader and teacher but church after church kept her out of the pulpit. At the last church she attended, Ursula faced the greatest challenge yet to her faith. Over the span of a few months, she and her husband went from being well-respected leaders to losing their entire community. Ursula went through a depressive state and cried out to God, but no answer came. Over the next few years, Ursula would make beautiful art, write for herself and continue to question her religious beliefs. Since leaving, Ursula has dabbled in other faiths, wondering if any will fit her. Nothing has yet, but she is learning and growing as a whole person. She no longer has to squash part of herself or silence her own curiosity. Ursula’s art and writing empower others to exist as their whole selves in the world and to see beauty and inspiration in the world around them. Ursula Schneider art exhibition through May 25th 2022, at D&R Art Gallery and Studio in Tucson, AZ. Links Website
https://www.ursulaschneider.art/ Personal FaceBook
https://www.facebook.com/ursula.d.schneider/ Business facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/ursulaschneiderart Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/ursula_schneider_art/ People can also email me at ursulaschneiderart@gmail.com Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/05/01/ursula-schneider/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Geoffrey Wallis, author of A Voice From Inside: Notes on Religious Trauma in a Captive Organization. Geoffrey is Physically In but Mentally Out (PIMO) of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. After recognizing the religious trauma and the cognitive dissonance he was experiencing he found help through therapy. He remains within the Watchtower organization because it is a “captive organization” which enforces shunning by family members and friends. Geoffrey’s book, A Voice From Inside: Notes on Religious Trauma in a Captive Organization, is an evenhanded look at life inside a High Demand Religious Group. Geoffrey shows Secular Grace in his documenting his personal experience. It is incredibly well written and interesting to read. Links A Voice From Inside: Notes on Religious Trauma in a Captive Organization
https://amzn.to/3BRvmjv Website
https://www.wallisbooks.com/ Interact Nominate and Vote for the Graceful Atheist Podcast on the Podcast Awards
https://www.podcastawards.com/app/nominationsDeconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap83Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap83 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

And what else would you want from life except to connect with other people … and to talk about things that matter and ask the big questions?
My guest this week is Marie D’Elephant the host of the Everyone’s Autonomous podcast. Marie has a powerful and unique voice in the secular community. She is passionate about her own autonomy and the autonomy of others. What is next? Since none of that is real, what is going on and how do I want to live?
Her new podcast jumps off where Everyone’s Agnostic leaves off. What to do now after a faith transition. The podcast “hosts conversations about reclaiming our autonomy and advocating for the autonomy of others through the lens of recovering from religion.” OK, I’ve been heard, I understood what happened, how do I resolve this, how do I move forward?
We discuss existential dread, the fear of aging and facing death. Marie talks about her work on Everyone’s Agnostic and taking on managing Dave Warnock‘s Dying Out Loud tour. Mostly we talk about autonomy and how you can discover yours. I love this autonomy and this is the life that I want to live!
Links Everyone’s Autonomous Podcast:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everyones-autonomous/id1485253552?mt=2&app=podcast Twitter:
https://twitter.com/s_autonomous Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/everyonesautonomous/ Interact Dave Warnock Episode:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2019/08/08/dave-warnock-dying-out-loud/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

Stay skeptical? This week’s guest is Thom Krystofiak. He’s the author of Tempted to Believe: The Seductive Power of Claims About “The Truth.” Thom grew up Catholic but as an adult began practicing TM, Transcendental Meditation. He followed gurus and groups for decades, even though he was never quite convinced of the more spectacular claims of TM. Thom shares about his experiences in the TM movement and what pushed him out. He also discusses important questions people, regardless of their belief or skepticism, could ask themselves: What do I mean by truth? How do I find the truth? And how much does truth really matter? Links Tempted to Believe: The Seductive Power of Claims about "The Truth"
https://amzn.to/3qKAa63 Thom’s personal site
https://krystofiak.com/ Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/09/18/thom-rystofiak-tempted-to-belive/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Jon Steingard, the lead singer and guitarist for Hawk Nelson. In late spring of 2020, Jon posted a gut-wrenching confession on Instagram that he no longer believed in God. He is one of the more prominent recent high profile deconverts. Jon risked more than most by publicly acknowledging his lack of faith as his career was tied to the Christian music world. This confession and the public discussion of his loss of faith has and will continue to have reverberations throughout the Christian community for some time. Jon has made himself widely available to honestly and vulnerably tell his story both to the Christian community and to the atheist humanist communities. It is Jon’s honest seeking after truth and his willingness to respectfully engage apologists and other prominent Christians that are having such a large impact. He has become a safe person for others in the Christian world to discuss their doubts. In my conversation with Jon, he describes a major turning point in his life when he saw poverty, starvation, and abandonment of the Batwa children and community in Uganda. This began a quite reasonable time of questioning: if God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and good, why are the Batwa suffering? In January of 2021, Jon started a podcast and YouTube channel called The Wonder and Mystery of Being. Links Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jonsteingard/
Confession of his lack of belief
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAbHm10lt7w/ The Wonder and The Mystery of Being podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUjFcPl10_QMxoevHL4jLXg Twitter
https://twitter.com/jonsteingard
Response to Brian Houston
https://twitter.com/jonsteingard/status/1313552919661342725 Interact Full show notes with quotes from the episode
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2021/01/03/jon-steingard-the-wonder-and-the-mystery-of-being/ Deconversion from Christianity
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Jennifer Michael Hecht’s Doubt: A History
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2019/05/16/jennifer-michael-hecht-doubt-a-history/Clergy Project
https://clergyproject.org/ Make audio snippet quotes of the podcast
Vurbl: https://vurbl.com/station/4hdO0KfiVRV/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Eli Fuhrmler-Wheeler. Eli grew up going to Awanas at an Evangelical Free church. Eventually, he attended an Assemblies of God church and spoke in tongues. His parents forbade him from going to that church and “of course I felt they were keeping me from the gates of heaven and pulling me into hell.” Eli’s childhood was traumatic in many ways. He experienced sexual abuse, neglect, his mom was very sick her whole life, her boyfriends were abusive, his father had an antisocial personality disorder, and he lived on and off in foster homes. Eli sought the comfort of drugs and alcohol. He discovered he was a lesbian. He was told he was going to hell by his family. As an adult, he began a relationship with his now-wife. At 30 he realized he was a man and began transition. Eli has faced rejection by family and some friends. However, his gracefulness through it all has won some of them over. Eli deconstructed from Christianity through the years. He has explored various world religions including Norse Heathenry and various mystic traditions. Transition and therapy have given Eli the wholeness he deserves. Eli and his wife show unconditional love for one another. This is the relationship that Eli has experienced grace for himself. Links Secular Therapy
https://www.seculartherapy.org/ Religious Trauma Institute
https://www.religioustraumainstitute.com/ Interact Thank you for nominating the podcast for the People’s Choice award in the Religion and Spirituality category
https://www.podcastawards.com/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap85Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap85 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest is Laura Anderson. We discuss religious abuse, religious trauma and the difference between them. Abuse is the thing that happened to you.
Trauma is the experience that your body or nervous system has as a response to the thing that happened to you.
Laura is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in the State of Tennessee, a Professor of Psychology and an Approved Supervisor through the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy (AAMFT). She has a Master of Arts in Marriage and Family Therapy and is in the final stages of completing my completing her Ph.D. in Mind-BodyMedicine at Saybrook University. Laura specializes in complex trauma, religious trauma, religious abuse, and purity culture. Laura has developed a manual for mental health professionals on Adverse Religious Experiences and Religious Trauma which is available on her website. This is a resource for both mental health professionals and those who have experienced adverse religious experiences themselves. Use the discount code: RELIGIOUSTRAUMA15 for $15 off the price of the manual. Links Website:
https://www.lauraandersontherapy.com/ Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ms_elleanderson Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/ms_elleanderson/ Interact On the show, I mention my writing on the steps of deconversion and “doubling down” that can be found here: https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Brette. Brette was so serious about her Christianity in junior high her goal was martyrdom. In her young adulthood, she followed her pastor’s advice and attended Master’s Commission, similar to a discipleship training program. Her experience there was nothing short of psychological torture. Her faith began breaking down as did her physical and psychological health at Master’s Commission. It included deliverance sessions and enumerating her demons. It wasn’t until she saw her younger brother being treated poorly that she began to question. She and her brother left: “leaving was the BEST feeling!” After a brief stint in “spiritual but not religious” land, she finally admitted she no longer believed in god. She let go of “trying to make it be true.” Brette has since discovered naturalistic and psychological explanations of her experiences that have given her more closure and comfort. Interact Sam (When Belief Dies) GoFundMe for a laptop
https://gofund.me/9bed67a7 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap72Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap72Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap72 Attribution Picture by Brette’s daughter A. "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

The Holidays: The Big White Elephant in the Room When one has deconverted, the holidays may look completely different, reexamining everything from family traditions to singing carols to dealing with those extended family members. On today’s episode, two returning guests, Arline and Lars and a new guest, Carlene, share how the holidays have and haven’t changed since deconversion. Lars and Arline go into what it’s like to be an unbelieving parent during the holidays, navigating the mythologies of Santa and Jesus. Children ask genuine questions, and they expect genuine answers. The group discusses what they have not given up, among other things, singing Christmas carols. Carols are different than singing religious songs at church, more cultural than sacred. For some, however, it takes a little self-discipline to sing along without critiquing the lyrics. The guests also examine what they have thrown in the trash bin completely, including, but not limited to, the phrase “Merry Christmas” and all those nativity scenes. Holidays spent with extended family can be especially challenging, regardless of religious beliefs. Each person is finding their own unique ways of making the most of their time with family, especially being grateful. Religion does not own the rights to thanksgiving. Lastly, Carlene, David, Lars and Arline consider some new traditions they’ve started or would like to start. Nature is the easiest place to experience awe and wonder, and everyone discussed ways to be in nature more this winter. Also, creating new traditions can be awkward and may not always turn out quite like we hope. It is a lovely conversation, full of hope and lots of humor. Book Recommendations #PaidLinks Small Creatures Such as We by Sasha Sagan
https://amzn.to/3dobtFO Grace Without God by Katherine Ozment
https://amzn.to/3oqmUmP Good Without God by Greg Epstein
https://amzn.to/3opdjwg Interact Send in a recorded AMA question
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/messageDeconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/ Photo by Thomas Bormans on Unsplash

Have you noticed on this side of faith, you cannot escape references to meditation? I have to admit I am a bit of a skeptic when it comes to mediation. So I decided to have my friend and colleague, Andrew McLeod, on the podcast to help me understand what the practice of insight meditation is all about. Andrew has been practicing meditation for 20 years, he has been on multiple silent retreats and he has had the unfortunate task of trying to teach me meditation. Andrew makes compelling arguments for the usefulness of mediation. It helps one become more accepting of oneself and not mired by emotional reactions. It encourages one to live in the moment. It helps jump start loving kindness for others. Links: Get in touch with Andrew on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/mcleodent Learn more about insight meditation:
Insight meditation society: https://www.dharma.org
Jack Kornfield: https://jackkornfield.com
Sharon Salzburg: https://www.sharonsalzberg.com Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Emily. Emily grew up in an Evangelical Free Church in the rural Midwest. She was on the Cubbies-Sparks-AWANA track. Around age 10, she became a pastor’s kid when her dad switched careers and went into ministry. Her early childhood experiences of church were fairly positive, but she struggled with severe fear of hell and the rapture from a young age. The youth group setting was horribly unsuited to a sensitive introvert like. She was miserable being forced to attend churches where she didn’t know anyone except her parents.This discomfort in Christian circles continued through college. After college, Emily spent a year in London doing a master’s degree. She immersed myself in the city’s amazing performing arts scene and met a lot of people with totally different backgrounds and beliefs to hers. That year really expanded her horizons, and when she moved back to the US, she pursued a career in performing arts administration. For the first few years after grad school, Emily wasn’t ready to reject everything and say that she didn’t believe in God, but she had no interest in going to church, praying, reading the Bible, etc. Then the 2016 election happened, and she watched with horror as Christians whom she loved and admired went all-in for Trump. At that point, her indifference turned to disgust, and she wanted nothing to do with Christianity at all. In the past 2-3 years Emily has really done the hard work of figuring out what she believes now and addressing the harm that her Christian background has caused. Emily has had to work through the baggage of purity culture as she is in her first long term relationship. Therapy with a focus on religious trauma has been helpful. Emily is discovering who she is, relish the arts and experiencing the joy of being a human being. Interact We are very excited to announce the new private Deconversion Anonymous Facebook Group. The group will be administered by Arline from episode 71. Please join us in building a community of graceful human beings. Deconversion Anonymous Facebook Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/17/emily-deconversion-anonymous/ Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/ Thanks to Logan Thomas for the new Graceful Atheist Podcast art work

My guest today is Bret Gallatin. Bret is a secular humanist activist. He is about to launch a new podcast covering secular matters and politics. What you believe affects everybody, it doesn’t just affect you.
Bret is a pastor’s kid. More than that he is a member of a multi-generational Evangelical family. He was expected to go into the family business. He was on track to do so, going to bible college and working at the church’s radio station ministry. The easiest place to hide being gay is in the purity culture.
Until questions about his faith and honesty about his sexuality led to his deconversion. On the path of grace, he began to question if his interpretation of the bible was correct. His coming out to his father who was also his pastor was a defining moment for Bret. https://twitter.com/BretG/status/1158427818130366464 At the end of the day, how do you know you are right?
How do you know your brand of Christianity is right?
Links Twitter:
https://twitter.com/bretg Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/radbret/ Recovery From Religion:
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Interact: Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Heather Wells, author of Trustworthy: A Journey from American Christianity to Freedom. Heather grew up in a happy Christian home, attending a variety of churches—from “Women cannot wear pants,” to “There are drums!” She married at eighteen and expected to have a similarly happy marriage as her parents, but no matter how hard she worked—both literally and metaphorically—that was not going to happen. Heather felt like a spectator, watching the men around her plan her life. It looks years of a one-sided marriage, churches refusing to help and zero answered prayers for Heather to realize she had to be her own savior. Once she had a well-paying job and more education, she no longer needed others to rescue her and her family. Heather now enjoys a life that is her own and no one else’s. She is the trustworthy one. She can look to herself—her own intuition, her own knowledge and education—for what is best for her. That is a sweet gift that no one can take from her.
#AmazonPaidLinks
Trustworthy: A Journey from American Christianity to Freedom
https://amzn.to/3heAKHA
Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/11/06/heather-wells-trustworthy/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My returning guest this week is Jimmy. Jimmy and I review Julia Galef’s book Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Things Clearly and Others Don’t. We explore the book from two lenses: Deconversion and Secular Grace. Jimmy brings an intense focus on humility, self-honesty and truth seeking to the conversation. The perfect complement to Julia’s book. Julia GalefThe best description of motivated reasoning I’ve ever seen comes from psychologist Tom Gilovich. When we want something to be true, he said, we ask ourselves, “Can I believe this?,” searching for an excuse to accept it. When we don’t want something to be true, we instead ask ourselves, “Must I believe this?,” searching for an excuse to reject it.
...
In contrast to directionally motivated reasoning, which evaluates ideas through the lenses of “Can I believe it?” and “Must I believe it?,” accuracy motivated reasoning evaluates ideas through the lens of “Is it true?” Links Jimmy’s first appearance on the podcast
https://gracefulatheist.com/2020/09/20/jimmy-deconversion-anonymous/ Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Things Clearly and Others Don’t
https://amzn.to/3nFCKd9 Soldiers and Scouts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfRC8ZgBXZw Why Buddhism is True
https://amzn.to/3nGnXyM Humanist Ten Commitments
https://americanhumanistcenterforeducation.org/ten-commitments

Daryl Davis, who attends KKK rallies and has helped many leave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/09/19/book-review-scout-mindset-with-jimmy/ Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This is the first "A Believer Interviews the Graceful Atheist" episode.  In these episodes, I will have believers on who I have grown to trust interview me. Rather than try to argue with them I’ll see if I can get them to understand why I no longer believe. The idea is to reverse the roles and have the believer in the skeptics seat asking the questions. As deconverts, we may find ourselves in the odd position of defending our former faith when believers want to suggest that we must never have been a "True Christian" or that our faith must not have been real. This episode was prompted by a discussion on Twitter on this topic and the genuine and open response from David Hellsten. In this episode, Reverend David Hellsten, a Baptist pastor from Milford on Sea in the UK, will be in the skeptics seat asking the questions. The Twitter conversation that prompted the show. In the show I mention the Clergy Project, which is a great resource for current and former religious professions who find themselves no longer believing. You can find them at: http://clergyproject.org/ "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Sarah. Sarah is a co-author of the book “Still Unbelievable!” She is a regular poster on the Unbelievable? discussion boards. Sarah has a unique blend of down to earth perspective and an intellectual rigor. Sarah grew up a Christian. She was a part of the Shepherding Movement which is now considered a cult. She has moved from the Anglican church, to (British) Baptist, and then to Charismatic Vineyard churches. Until she began to research her own faith. What she found was an utter lack of evidence and a confusing morass of conflicting information. She describes her search for validation as “going forensic” as she studied apologetics, philosophy, cosmology and evolution. Ultimately, she could not keep god on “life support” and she is now an agnostic. Links Reason Press and the Still Unbelievable! book
https://reasonpress.net/
“Sophie’s” Story
https://reasonpress.net/SU1E/Sophie1
https://reasonpress.net/SU1E/Sophie2 Skeptics and Seekers
https://skepticsandseekers.squarespace.com/blog/x-tians-part-one-what-christians-who-stay-need-to-know-about-the-christians-who-dont Justin Brierley’s Unbelievable? podcast
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Support the podcast here. Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

Today's show is a Deconversion (not so) Anonymous episode.  In these episodes, people like you who have gone through a faith transition can tell your story either anonymously or in all your glory. It is your choice. If you would like to tell your faith transition story anonymously or otherwise get in touch with me at gracefulatheist@gmail.com or @GracefulAtheist on Twitter. On today's episode, Amanda Holloway is on the show. Amanda is months into her deconversion. Things began to unravel watching the testimony of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings. This brought up her #MeToo past and she bravely reached out for help in a time of crisis. Ultimately this process led to her deconversion. She tells her story with exceptional honesty and forthrightness. She describes finally being accepted for who she is and continues to discover things about herself without the constraints of Christianity.  This episode deals with serious adult topics including sexual abuse, childhood neglect and thoughts of suicide. Please plan accordingly. Links: Get in touch with Amanda:
https://twitter.com/shesamandamanda Amanda's Blog:
http://www.amandamanda.blog/ Resources: If you need help, reach out.
1-800-273-8255
http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Recovering From Religion
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Deconversion: How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Shout outs for those working in the Deconversion space: Steve Hilliker and Voices of Deconversion Podcast
http://voicesofdeconversion.com/ @ExodusDoc
https://exodusdoc.com/ Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guests are podcasters, Nathan Alexander and Todd Tavares of Beyond Atheism. Nathan grew up Anglican and in his early twenties, he realized there were no good reasons to continue believing. Todd grew up Catholic—technically still confirmed—but even at ten years old, he was a skeptic, wanting to explore reality rather than make-believe. In this interview, Nathan and Todd discuss racism, humanism, community-building and what it means to live thoughtfully in a godless world. It’s a sharp conversion you don’t want to miss! Links Beyond Atheism
https://www.nathangalexander.com/podcast Race in a Godless World: Atheism, Race, and Civilization, 1850-1914
https://www.nathangalexander.com/book-race-in-a-godless-world
#AmazonPaidLinks
https://amzn.to/3hGdEtO Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/11/13/nathan-and-todd-beyond-atheism/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Treasure who is interviewed by Arline, the Deconversion Anonymous community manager. Treasure grew up in the Seventh Day Adventist tradition. Her whole family was focused on ministry. Treasure is a singer and she was continually asked to sing for every church she attended. She was focused on mental health issues and ministering to people in need. In 2020, Treasure began to quietly question her faith and began the slow painful process of deconstruction. Though she still loves hymns, even music, once a joy, has become “confusing” due to the obligation to perform for churches and feels like a “job”. Treasure has found spiritual and community fulfillment in her current spiritual practices of meditation, intentional journaling and yoga including sound bowl healing. She is also a participant in the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group where she says it is safe to vent. Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/10/02/arline-interviews-treasure/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Ian Redfearn. Ian deconverted over 12 years ago. Since then he has continued to obsess over his deconversion. He is still asking the why? and how? questions. Ian is concerned with the deep questions of life and continuing to find ways to make meaning. Ian has experienced the full force of the chaotic world we live in. His 24-year-old son has Cystic Fibrosis which is particularly frightening during an airborne pandemic. His father is experiencing Alzheimer’s Disease. All of this is happening during the time of Covid 19. In spite of the difficulties of life, Ian has a joy and a sense of purpose. He is a committed father, husband, son, and community member. He takes time to wonder at the beauty in the world. He recognizes that relationships are what give us our most valued meaning in life. He is now attending the Manchester Sunday Assembly and becoming an active member of the Secular community. Links Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ian.redfearn1/ Sunday Assembly Manchester
https://www.facebook.com/sunassemblymcr
Zoom 11 am (GMT) Sunday mornings  https://zoom.us/j/2472709402 What is your favorite #DeconversionSong? Music is important to Ian and it influenced his deconversion and how he talks and feels about it now. See the full show notes link below to find Ian's deconversion-related musical recommendations including Spotify and YouTube links. Use the hashtag #DeconversionSong to tell us your favorite deconversion song. Interact Full Show Notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/03/21/?gaid=gap65ian-redfearn-meaning-making/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap65Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap65 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Meir-Simchah. Meir-Simchah Panzer lives in Jerusalem with his wife and their four children. He co-hosts the podcasts Two Christians And A Jew, with Frank M. Taylor and Dr. Jennifer Brown Jones, where the team dives into how Christians and Jews read the Hebrew Scriptures differently and what difference it makes for our lives, and the Artifact Podcast with Nachliel Selavan where ordinary objects become portals into the history, ideas, and existential mystery behind them. Formerly, he co-hosted Holy Madness – The Show, with Tzvi Zucker. Meir-Simchah is a student of Rabbi Matis Weinberg. He is a co-founder and executive at Ohalecha Arts and Events Center; he writes essays, poems, and stories; and he teaches the Hebrew language and Hebrew Scriptures for individuals and groups. Meir and I discuss his work on Two Christians and Jew, how he interacts with the Christians, what he actually thinks about Jesus and the NT, and the influence of secular Judaism on secular humanism. Links Two Christians and a Jew
http://twochristiansandajew.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/MeirSimchah Facebook Two Christians and a Jew discussion group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/215152216739045Artifact page
https://www.facebook.com/ArtifactPodcastArtifact discussion group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/397213411493038 Email meirsimchah@gmail.com. Interact Full show notes and book recommendations
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/02/07/meir-simchah-on-orthodox-judaism/ Rate and Review the Graceful Atheist Podcast
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/graceful-atheist-podcast-1136736Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution “Waves” track written and produced by Makaih Beats
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike

My guest today is Alice Greczyn. Alice runs the Dare to Doubt website dedicated to millennials who are detaching from harmful belief systems. Alice tells her story growing up with purity culture, Christian Courtship and Alice's nearly arranged marriage. She describes being an atheist while surrounded by LA spirituality. She tells the story of cult-like acting classes. As a Christian she felt she had to fake spiritual experiences because others around her seemed to be having them but she never seemed to hear from god. Her honesty stopped her from claiming spiritual experiences she knew were not real. While watching the Jesus camp documentary, she asked herself, "how many of them are faking it?" Alice recognized that other spiritual paths still required faith. She could not accept them because she could no longer lie to herself. She had grown to recognize when she was trying to lie to herself to "make things real." "I became not so great at lying to myself, I recognized when I was trying to make something real." Dare to Doubt walks the tricky line to be welcoming to atheist and those just beginning to dip a toe outside of the belief waters. "I built the site that I wanted and that I needed that I wished I could have found when I was deconverting" Alice is interested in studying why there are not more out women atheists and what causes non-believing women to hesitate to identify as atheists. "1% of women identify as atheist, I need to come out of the closet." Alice recommends the Secular Therapy Project to find a therapist who will not push spirituality on you while you recover from your religious trauma. "I feel so much more love and so much more peace as an atheist than I ever felt as a Christian." Links: Alice's Social Media: https://twitter.com/alicefood
https://www.instagram.com/alicegreczyn/ Dare to Doubt: https://www.daretodoubt.org/
https://twitter.com/daretodoubt
https://www.instagram.com/DaretoDoubt/
Recovering From Religion
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Secular Therapy Project
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/the-secular-therapy
Alice's Book Recommendation: Dr. Marlene Winell
Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion
https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Former-Fundamentalists-Religion/dp/1933993235/
Interact: Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message
Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Sara. Sara is “a musician from a home of musicians.” She grew up in an Assemblies of God church in a “vibrantly faithful home.” She spent her teen years in a “cool” Southern Baptist Church. She then spent some time in Acts 29 churches and Reformed theology. To round things out she attended a Presbyterian (PCA) church. Sara started having doubts in college, but she was able to ignore them for some time. They eventually wore her down. Parenthood was the last straw. She realized she loved her son more than God loved anyone. God’s “hiddenness” was neglect that any parent could recognize. Sara had been a worship leader. This usefulness kept her in the church longer than she would have otherwise. It also contributed to her deconversion as she saw what church was like “back stage.” Now Sara writes on her blog, Former Protagonist, about her deconversion experience. She is also exploring Humanism and loving her family. Links Former Protagonist Blog
https://formerprotagonist.blogspot.com/ Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/09/12/sara-deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap88 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap88Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap88 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Daniel Kelly, the new co-host of When Belief Dies. Daniel began as a Charismatic Christian, moved to an Orthodox Christian church, and eventually was at a Bible church that preached through every verse in the bible. Daniel was a dedicated Christian working in a Christian non-profit helping those with disabilities. His mother had MS when he grew up so he was focused on helping his family through difficult times and did not always get to be a kid. Daniel’s feminism and belief in the humanity of the LGBTQ community led to moral objections to some of the harder Biblical passages that do not uphold the humanity and full autonomy of everyone. His serious investigations into theology and the Bible were some of the early seeds that led to deconversion. The grief Daniel experienced leaving the faith and the loss were profound. He lost his faith, his community, the health of his relationship and on top of that the pandemic hit. He was isolated and alone. He experienced “Hell Anxiety” and worried he was a “vessel of wrath.” The first year after deconversion was one of the most difficult of his life. He made it through and today he is the co-host of the When Belief Dies podcast. He is building healthy relationships and restoring family relations. He is experiencing the freedom to love people unconditionally. Links When Belief Dies Podcast
https://whenbeliefdies.com/ Recovering From Religion
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Secular Therapy
https://www.seculartherapy.org/ Interact Sam and Daniel interview me
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/05/23/sam-and-daniel-interview-david-ames-the-graceful-atheist/?gaid=gap81 Daniel and I interview Sam
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-belief-dies-bonus-inquisition-daniel-kelly-david/id1516058806?i=1000522850337 Tris Mamone’s Finding Faith in Secular Grace
https://www.splicetoday.com/writing/finding-faith-in-secular-graceDeconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap81Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap81 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Lisa: Secular Sobriety My guest today is Lisa. Lisa runs a YouTube channel where she shares from her life experience, recovery from substance abuse and humanistic values. Shortly after getting into recovery, Lisa also deconverted. We discuss what it was like to go through recovery and deconversion almost simultaneously. Lisa shares about secular alternatives to the 12 steps like SOS and SMART Recovery. We try to draw out the secular humanistic values that are embedded in the 12 steps while jettisoning the religious ones. In the final thoughts section at the end of the podcast, I share my personal story of being a family member in a drug and alcohol addicted family and how the 12 steps influenced both my Christianity and now my Secular Humanism.
Links: Lisa on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HPNCAnonymous
https://twitter.com/ionamoxie Youtube: How not to be an a**hole
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWEmS-qN-qkKgu3ifxzm7VA Video on Honesty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXynA-IAPeI Video on Secular perspective on 12 steps as they apply to life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmPdMDccMHw
Secular Alternatives to 12 Steps: Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS)
http://www.sossobriety.org/ SMART Recovery
https://www.smartrecovery.org/
Interact: Leave a voice mail
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message
Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Jenny McGrath. Jenny is a licensed mental health counselor, a somatic psychotherapist, and a movement educator specializing in religious trauma and sexual abuse. She believes “in the power of story and the wisdom of the body.” Jenny’s work stems partly from her evangelical upbringing in Colorado Springs. She was steeped in the world of purity culture. Her work also comes from a broad understanding of the history of purity culture—women’s disembodiment, trauma, gender erasure, systemic racism and more. Jenny guides and support others in their journeys to liberation and hope after years of harm and trauma. She is truly living out secular grace! Links Counseling website
https://www.indwellcounseling.com/ Embodied Sexuality Course
https://www.indwellmovement.com/embodied-sexuality Purity Culture Research Collective
https://puritycultureresearchcollective.com/ Recommendations Podcasts Straight White American Jesus podcast
https://straightwhiteamericanjesus.com/ Books #AmzonPaidLinks The Purity Myth by Jessica Valenti
https://amzn.to/3aWcvvf Virgin Nation by Sara Moslener
https://amzn.to/3zuiqB9 Shameless by Nadia Bolz Weber (progressive Christian perspective)
https://amzn.to/3RPCmW2 Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/07/24/jenny-mcgrath-embodied-sexuality/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is James. James is a former missionary to Haiti who was a part of the Pentecostal and Charismatic traditions. James took his Christianity very seriously and was sensitive to God speaking in his life. Through a series of realizations and life difficulties, James began to doubt what he had been taught about God matched reality. Later, exploring psychology he realized the cognitive biases and connotative dissonance he had lived under. James describes himself as more “emotional.” His story is an important one representing the way Christianity can play on emotions and “works” until real tragedy strikes. Special thanks to Mike T. for editing this episode. Links ExChristian Recovery
https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristianrecovery/ Secular Therapy Project
https://www.seculartherapy.org/ Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2021/01/10/james-deconversion-anonymous/ Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Rate and Review the Graceful Atheist Podcast
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/graceful-atheist-podcast-1136736
Make audio snippet quotes of the podcast
Vurbl: https://vurbl.com/station/4hdO0KfiVRV/A secular humanist podcast: Graceful Atheist Podcast
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/podcast/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

Ask Me Anything 2021. Questions from Sheila, Emily, Rick and Mark, Jimmy, Arline, Judah, and Matt. Links Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Still Unbelievable
https://anchor.fm/still-unbelievable/episodes/Episode-39—Deconstructing-a-Deconstruction-Deconstruction-els542
https://anchor.fm/still-unbelievable/episodes/Episode-64—Discussing-Sean-McDowell-and-John-Marriot-on-deconversion-part-1-e195h0h Paulogia on Babylon Bee’s ExVangelicals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMFQJPKYK28 Exvangelical on Evangelical response to Deconstruction
https://www.irreverent.fm/show/exvangelical-1/on-the-deconstruction-discourse/ Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Anthony Pinn
https://gracefulatheist.com/2020/08/23/dr-anthony-pinn-humanism-and-race/ Amy Rath
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/06/06/amy-rath-nonelife/ Bart campolo
https://gracefulatheist.com/2020/07/09/bart-campolo-humanize-me/ Why I am not an Anti-Theist
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/10/17/why-i-am-not-an-anti-theist/ My Deconversion Sotry
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/09/10/common-message/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Leah Helbling. Leah is the host of the Women Beyond Faith podcast and an incredibly important voice in the secular community. Leah has a long history of secular community building. Post-deconversion she started a chapter of Women Beyond Belief. She now is a team leader of Bart Campolo‘s Cincinnati Caravan. “Leah is often referred to as ‘The Great Connector‘” Leah and I discuss the gift of being present when someone tells their deconversion story. Leah shares her deconversion story which includes overcoming the purity culture and complementarianism of Evangelicalism. It also includes the unwelcoming atmosphere in the secular community for women and what she is doing about it. We talk about podcasting and what motivates us to do the work. Finally, we talk about building secular community. Links Women Beyond Faith
https://womenbeyondfaith.buzzsprout.com/ Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/womenbeyondfaith Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/womenbeyondfaith/ Cincinnati Caravan
https://www.cincinnaticaravan.org/ Recovering From Religion
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Search for secular community on meetup.com
https://www.meetup.com/ Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/03/14/leah-helbling-women-beyond-faith/?gaid=gap64Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap64Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap64 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Dr. Anthony Pinn. Dr. Pinn is the Agnes Cullen Arnold Professor of Humanities, the Professor of Religious Studies. the Founding Director of the Center for Engaged Research and Collaborative Learning Rice University, and the Director of Research of the Institute for Humanist Studies. Dr. Pinn has written a number of books on the intersection of humanism and race. In this episode, we discuss his book, When Colorblindness Isn’t the Answer. I learned quite a lot from Dr. Pinn. Both about humanism and the experience of black humanists. Ultimately I was challenged to change my behavior, to “do my homework,” and to understand that it will take dismantling of white supremacy in humanist communities in order to gain the great benefits that diversity brings. "We can do better." This sort of fundamental change this movement towards diversity and equity means giving up comfort.
You cannot request comfort and say you are interested in change
Throughout his book(s) and in the interview Dr. Pinn calls on our humanist values to be less ignorant, to include black and other historically disparaged voices, and to develop our own vocabulary and ways of experiencing awe without calling on theistic traditions. Links Website
https://www.anthonypinn.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/anthony_pinn Books
https://www.anthonypinn.com/books When Colorblindness Isn’t The Answer
https://www.amazon.com/When-Colorblindness-Isnt-Answer-Challenge-ebook/dp/B06XXM1MWR/ Interact Critique of Apologetics
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/critique-of-apologetics/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/deconversion/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Bob Barnes. Bob is an organizer with BAHA, Bluewater Atheists, Humanists & Agnostics. BAHA “is a non-profit organization dedicated to improving the image of Freethinkers and Atheists and to give back to our communities.” BAHA is hosting its annual conference, BAHACon, this year with speakers and events you won’t want to miss! August 26 – 28th, 2022 in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada. Links BAHACon
https://bahacon.comBluewater Atheists, Humanists and Agnostics
https://bluewateraha.com/ Promo Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbXUm4C_JDc Interact For quotes, recommendation and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/07/10/bob-barnes-bahacon-2022/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Drew. Drew grew up as a Missionary Kid and has traveled to nearly every continent and all across the United States. Drew spent years of his life evangelizing and serving others through construction, farming and carpentry. Drew has since left mainstream evangelicalism, with its exclusivity and supremacy culture, but he is using the tools he developed. He and his family serve their local community right in the Bible Belt with a market, concerts, a community center and so much more! Humans don’t need a supernatural being to come to our rescue. We need one another. We need each other’s abilities and companionship. Drew and his family are changing the future by building intentional community right where they are. Links NOTE: Not an endorsement The Perch
https://www.theperchcomer.com/ Rupert Spira Podcast Episode 47: The Weekend University
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rupert-spira-podcast/id1494564673?i=1000571203239 Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/08/07/drew-community-and-consciousness/Graceful Atheist YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/GracefulAtheist Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Humanist author and speaker, Joe Simonetta, grew up in a Catholic home with good values. He and his brothers “did well,” and he is thankful for the foundation his parents gave him. As a young man, affected by all the suffering in the world, he vowed to be part of the solution. He has lived a fascinating life, holding degrees from multiple universities, traveling extensively and enjoying all kinds of professions. His full bio is available here. Joe is hopeful about the future and has three basic rules that he believes can change the future for humanity: Be healthy. Be kind. Respect the environment. Links Website and books
https://joesimonetta.com/ Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/10/30/joe-simonetta-seven-words/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest today is Erik Carlson. Erik is a secular humanist and an atheist. His background in the sciences and biology led him to question his young Earth creationist and Calvinist faith tradition. Discovering his sexuality led him to question the morality of his John Piper inspired Christianity. All of which culminated in deconversion. Erik's humanism is evident in his focus on loving people over ideology. He is hopeful for his generation's ability to make positive change in the world from the secular, scientific and political perspectives. And he has good advice for those in the process of coming out: "Protect yourself, do it in your own timing."
Erik's book recommendation: Velvet Rage by Alan Downs
https://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/1611746450
Help for coming out: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help-now/ https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/
Just for fun: Erik mentions Lady Gaga's song Born This Way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1FrqwZyKw I mention Sam Smith's Lay Me Down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaMq2nn5ac0
Interact: Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Deconversion Anonymous episodes:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/
Attribution: "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. This week’s guest is Seth. Seth was the oldest child in a large homeschooling family who attended attended mostly non-denominational churches. He was always studious and had read through the Bible multiple times before adulthood. In high school, Seth made his faith his own and dove deeply into Youth Earth Creationism. He studied at a state university and a few years after graduation began work at The Creation Museum. While living near the museum, Seth was introduced to a fringe religious movement he describes as “Messianic Judaism meets evangelicalism meets conspiracy theories.” In the Hebrew Roots movement, Seth discovered teachings he’d not encountered before and some doubts began to creep in. Over the next year, Seth continued to experience conflicts between YEC and Hebrew Roots. The two ways of thinking were at odds—flat earth or round, scientific cosmology or the broken body of a leviathan? By 2020, Seth realized he was an atheist, no longer able to convince himself to believe again. Recommendations Books

• Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari

Youtube

• Paulogia
• Viced Rhino
• Godless Engineer
• AcapellaScience
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk
  

Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/05/15/seth-deconversion-anonymous/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is John Marriott. We are talking about deconversion from the Christian perspective. John is the Director of Global Learning and teaches in the department of Philosophy of Religion and Ethics at Biola University. John did his PhD dissertation focused on deconversion from Christianity to atheism. He has written a book on deconversion called “A Recipe For Disaster,” which is directed to the Church on the ways they are setting up believers to lose their faith. I define [faith] as having enough reasons for a hope worth acting on.
I think there enough reasons for me to act on this [faith].
I first came across John’s work in an interview he did with Randal Rauser. I was struck by the honesty and clarity that he had in describing deconversion. In particular this quote: Something similar underwrites a significant percentage of deconversions. The biblical narrative that once easily fit within their childlike understanding of reality began to get squeezed out as they matured in their understanding of reality. The stories in the Bible about miracles, witches, giants, demons, etc. began to feel as out of place as Santa. To resolve the problems they may seek answers that will allow them to continue to believe in such things as adults in the 21st century. This is the experience not just of those who deconvert but all educated, reflective Christians today. I suspect that even for those that do remain Christians, the cognitive dissonance never completely goes away, it just has been reduced to a level that allows them to continue to believe. For deconverts however, the cognitive dissonance is not sufficiently assuaged by apologetics. It grows despite their efforts and reaches a tipping point. As in the case with Santa, the only way to resolve the tension is to admit what they know is true. God does not exist.
John proved to be as honest in person as he is in his writing. He met me in an honesty contest and we found points of agreement on what it is like to deconvert. Even though we disagree on the conclusions we were able to have a vital conversation. Links Website
https://www.johnmarriott.org/ A Recipe For Disaster book
https://www.johnmarriott.org/a-recipe-for-disaster Randal Rauser interview
https://www.christianpost.com/voice/the-problem-of-christians-becoming-atheists.html Interact Deconversion and How to Deconvert
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/deconversion/
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My returning guest this week is Alice Greczyn. Alice has written a new memoir called Wayward: Spiritual Warfare & Sexual Purity. In it, Alice tells the harrowing story of growing up in an Evangelical family that attempted to live by faith. They moved from place to place believing the “Lord would provide.” Alice describes it as being “homeless.” Alice came of age under the oppressive sexual and purity mores of the “Kiss Dating Goodbye” era. She tells the story of being shamed while on a mission trip to India for being “flirty.” As an adult in her 20s, in a desperate but final act of faith, Alice tests God. God fails. And Alice begins the difficult process of letting go of faith. This is a dark time of panic attacks, depression, and self-harm. With the help of secular therapy and the discovery of the term, Religious Trauma Syndrome, Alice began her recovery process. She studied the science of faith, neurotheology, and began to understand herself and those around her who still believed. In this new freedom, she rebuilt her life reclaiming her autonomy and discovering what real love feels like. On top of being an author, Alice is an advocate for those questioning their faith. Her organization, Dare to Doubt, is a resource for those who are no longer satisfied with their faith tradition’s explanations and demands. Links Wayward: Spiritual Warfare & Sexual Purity Limited supply of signed copies
https://www.alicegreczyn.com/wayward-limited-signed-copy Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1632993546/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1632993546&linkCode=as2&tag=gracefula-20&linkId=cce5b264f1fe651344a691f03654a7f5 Dare To Doubt
https://www.daretodoubt.org/ Interact Alice’s first appearance on the Graceful Atheist Podcast
https://gracefulatheist.com/2019/07/25/alice-greczyn-dare-to-doubt/ Full Show Notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/01/31/alice-greczyn-wayward/ Rate and Review
https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/graceful-atheist-podcast-1136736 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. This week’s guest is Shannon. Shannon’ story delves into the emotional experience of deconversion. Shannon grew up in an Independent Fundamental Baptist church, where the teachings were pernicious. As a teen and into adulthood, Shannon knew her own beliefs and convictions did not always align with her church or family. She tried to be who they wanted her to be, but her decisions were never quite enough for them. Over the years, she slowly, like “mental velcro,” ripped out the only beliefs she had known. Where her family couldn’t hold space for her questions, her husband could. It was a hard journey, but she wasn’t on it alone. Today, Shannon misses the certainty she used to have, the path laid out in front of her with easy answers. But she is able to see the world with new eyes—the glory and majesty of nature, the wonders of scientific inquiry. It has changed her for the better, and she isn’t looking back. Recommendations Thought Experiments For Believers
https://gracefulatheist.com/2018/12/03/thought-experiments-for-believers/Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Review of Hell is the Absence of God
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/06/04/review-hell-is-the-absence-of-god/ After Life trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGGKSHMQOM The Invention of Lying trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhRnmyBjOLs Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/05/22/shannon-deconversion-anonymous/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guests this week are Lars, Christie, Teddy, Amy and Eleanor, a whole family who deconverted around the same time. Lars felt a sense of duty to be a Christian all his life because he believed it was true. Christie felt there was “good evidence” for parts of the Bible and accepted that the rest was true. This worked until both of them came to the conclusion there was not enough evidence to believe. During the pandemic with Church on screen rather than in person, both Lars and Christie began to feel the freedom from Church. They eventually admitted to each other that they no longer believed. A few months later they asked the kids, “do you notice anything we are not doing any longer?” To which they responded, “church.” None of them seemed to miss it too much other than friends and the snacks! Lars and Christie also share about Lars’ demi-sexuality and the difficult early conversations around sex when they were first getting married. This highlights the destructive aspects of purity culture on everyone. Today the whole family is feeling free, intellectually honest and relieved after admitting to themselves they no longer believe and stopped going to church. Links Answers To Answers In Genesis FB group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/answers2aig/ William Lane Craig admitting it is the witness of the holy spirit not evidence

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VWEFY4JuGk
• http://www.reasonablefaith.org/videos/other-videos/what-is-the-inner-witness-of-the-holy-spirit
• https://youtu.be/wRm3PFFg97I?t=128
• https://youtu.be/cYq-xNpokEs?t=37

Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap90Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap90 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Troy Moore-Heart. Troy grew up in an Evangelical family in Texas and described his childhood self as a “true-believing born-again Christian” who was baptized by his father at 6 in his grandmother’s church. Troy experienced religious trauma, the natural childhood fears given the purported reality of a spiritual realm all around him. Later in life, when he acknowledged his sexuality he “fervently believed [he] was going to hell.” When he eventually came out to his family he needed to put up healthy boundaries. Troy started to call himself an agnostic and not an atheist for fear of losing his relationship with his family. After marrying as an adult, he came to terms with his religious trauma and anti-queer shame. He discovered secular humanism as “an ideological and moral home.” Today, troy calls himself a progressive humanist, and he is focused on transformative justice. He is becoming a humanist celebrant. He supports projects like the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Y’all Means All and the Trevor Project. Troy also supports the thriving secular therapy community that is growing around trauma-informed therapy, including the Religious Trauma Institute and the Reclamation Collective. Troy requests that you consider signing the Southern Poverty Law Center’s “Y’all Means All” pledge. “It’s become a galvanizing slogan to promote LGBTQ inclusion and advocacy in rural Southern communities.” Links Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/troy.moore.heart/Y’all Means All
http://www.yallmeansall.comThe Trevor Project
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/Religious Trauma Institute
https://www.religioustraumainstitute.com/Reclamation Collective
https://www.reclamationcollective.com/American Humanist Association
https://americanhumanist.org/ Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/02/14/troy-moore-heart-yall-means-all/Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Sarah. Sarah says she may have one of the “longest deconstruction stories. She grew up in a fundamentalist Baptist church in an area where there were not that many Baptist churches. So she felt different from an early age. She was constantly attempting to live in the “will of God” but struggled to determine what that was. She knew from an early age that she was a doubter which equates to “backslider.” Sarah was never comfortable with the limited roles allowed for women in the Church. Fortunately, her mother encouraged her to do and become whatever she wanted. Sarah was smart and interested in science. Studying science and biology did not fit the Young Earth Creationism she was taught at church. Sarah and her husband were the one couple who were egalitarian while the young married couples group were all complementarian. Sarah was vocal about her thoughts on complemntarianism. Sarah spent a long time outside the United States. When she returned to the United States she was shocked by the Christian Nationalism she heard from the pulpit. Rachael Held Evens, Mike McHargue and David Hayward helped Sarah through her deconstruction. Today post-deconstruction she is interested in finding her “deconstructing friends” in real life. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/04/18/sarah-deconstruction-anonymous/?gaid=gap69 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap69Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap69Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap69 Promotions Conference on Religious Trauma
https://pheedloop.com/CORT/site/home/ #ReligionShouldntHurt
https://www.instagram.com/religion.shouldnt.hurt/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Ruby. Ruby is an author, blogger and YouTuber, living her journey out loud for the benefit of her followers. Lutheran to her core, Ruby spent her life committed to the institution of the Church. It took multiple heartbreaks and difficulties in life before she began to wonder, “Is any of this true? Is any of this real?” She threw out the formal church experience first. Then, through her impressive consumption of non-fiction books, she was able to be rid of the Bible and finally Jesus. Now, Ruby’s life is all about love and kindness toward her fellow human beings. As far as supernatural beliefs, she looks to “the flow,” of the Universe. She’s able to define god in her own terms and her life—and the lives around her—are better for it. Links Poetry
https://thepreciouspoet.blogspot.com/ What do I believe?
https://thepreciouspoet.blogspot.com/p/what-do-i-believe-may-7-2022.html Book blog and recommendations
https://rubygetsreal.blogspot.com/ Atheistic Lent
https://authenticlent.blogspot.com/ Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/06/19/ruby-gets-real/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionPost on satisfaction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/01/19/i-still-havent-found-what-im-looking-for/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Ben and Ang have been married for seventeen years. They met as tender homeschooled church-kids. They married young, and the church’s “formula” worked well for a while. They were mostly happy and went on to have kids of their own. But little things from childhood would pop up now and then—purity culture shame, fear of emotions, fear of the end of the world… In June of 2016, the shooting at Pulse nightclub “broke” Ang, and she knew she had to find a different way forward. By 2017, they both were out of church—Ben trying to save their marriage; Ang trying to save herself. Now, Ben and Ang are navigating a new and more intimate life together. They’re both agnostic, defining agnosticism a little differently from one another, but they both agree—this life is most important, and it must be lived to the fullest! Links Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/buildanadventure/ Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/11/20/arline-interviews-ben-and-ang/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

We throw around the term religious trauma but what exactly does the term actually mean? On today's show, my guest is Kathleen B. Shannon. Kathleen is a physiotherapist. She is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Washington state and a Listened Professional Counselor in North Carolina. I asked Kathleen to be on the show to talk about religious trauma from an expert's perspective. What does psychology have to say on the subject and what does she sees in her practice? We discuss Kathleen's experience in bible college, religious trauma, outrage exhaustion and what Kathleen calls equanimity. Kathleen's advice for those deconstructing: "Find a space that is safe to ask the questions, preferably one where they will not give you the answers." -- Kathleen B. Shannon
Links: Connect with Kathleen B. Shannon: http://kbshannon.com/http://spiritualtraumarecovery.com/https://www.facebook.com/spiritualtraumarecovery/
Shout outs: I want to give Mandy Nicole (@ThatMandyNicole) credit for coining the term "Prayer Reflex." Mandy coined the term after the recording of the show but it eloquently describes a feeling I was attempting to articulate in the episode. https://twitter.com/ThatMandyNicole/status/1123629084733349888 Ryan Bell (@ryanjbell) for pointing me to the A Great Big World's song, "Say Something," as perfectly describing the deconversion experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2U0Ivkn2Ds
RHE: The intro points out that we recorded the conversation with today's guest, Kathleen B. Shannon, before the passing of Rachel Held Evans on May 4th, 2019. The absence of mention of Rachel and her work would have felt awkward. So, I make a few statements about Rachel's impact on the world of progressive Christianity and I read a statement from Kathleen about Rachel's impact on her. Rachel Held Evans' family's Go Fund Me page: https://www.gofundme.com/supporting-rachel-held-evans

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Ray Gilford. Ray grew up more of a cultural Christian. His family believed but did not push him. In college, without community and looking for friendship predatory evangelism took advantage of him. Ray worked hard at being a Christian but wanted something deeper. He learned Hebrew and Greek in an effort to find “True Christianity.” He remained a Christian for 32 years. Eventually, he deconverted realizing that Christianity did not live up to its promise. Ray now says he practices Pagan, metaphysics and spiritualism. Though this is a different path than most of my guests what is interesting about Ray’s metaphysics is that id does not preclude miracles and yet Ray still found Christianity wanting. Interact Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/deconversion/Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This week’s guest is Marla Taviano, author of Unbelieve: Poems on the Journey to Becoming a Heretic. Marla grew up in Middle America and moved across the globe and back, searching for God’s will for her life. She grew up in a loving home and didn’t realize she was in a “white Christian bubble.” Her church was almost all-white, her hometown was almost completely white, and then after high school, Marla attended an even smaller completely white, conservative Christian college. Marla’s first inkling that something was missing came when she read the book, The Hole in Our Gospel. She had read the Bible many, many times over the years, and here was a new revelation—2,000+ verses about helping the poor? four-letter words
if you’ve never lived inside / the bubble of
evangelical Christianity it / might surprise you
to find that l-o-v-e / and p-o-o-r were new
and controversial subjects for me / at age 35 Less than a decade later, while she and her family were part of a multiethnic church plant, Marla began to see more “holes” in her Christianity, namely racism and white supremacy. Her eyes were slowly beginning to open. Since 2015, Marla has been back and forth to Cambodia, written a book of poetry, started an incredibly popular bookstagram, been through a painful divorce, connected tons of people to one another and is still sharing her knowledge and wisdom with her followers. In her search for truth, Marla asks often, “Is this loving to my neighbor?” She may not be certain what her beliefs are right now, but she does believe that love is what will change the world. Links Amazon Paid Links
Unbelieve: Poems on the Journey to Becoming a Heretic
https://amzn.to/3sLNpoR Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/marlataviano/
https://www.instagram.com/whitegirllearning/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/marlataviano Interact Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/03/06/marla-taviano-unbelieve/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Colin. Colin absorbed his mother’s Evangelical Christianity. He has mostly good memories of the people in church. He bounced from his mother’s to his father’s families never quite fitting in. He hung on to his Christianity long after he recognized it no longer brought him “positive results” out of fear of losing everything: salvation, community, and identity. My first and only real religion is inclusion.
Colin’s doubts began young with a dynamic Sunday school teacher who was not allowed to preach in church and a gay uncle he was not supposed to approve of. Colin recognized that love demands inclusion. He felt it was his moral obligation to be inclusive. In his late twenties, in therapy, he experienced true acceptance. Even while he was explaining to his therapist he was still a virgin, having been a part of the purity culture of the ’90s. Colin’s story takes a dramatic turn of self-discovery. He discovers himself and discovers his voice. He then experienced more acceptance telling his story of recovering from growing up Evangelical to non-christian audiences. Colin tells his story with rawness, honesty and a great deal of humor. Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/deconversion/ Colin mentions a post I wrote on apologetcis: What If I Grant That
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/what-if-i-grant-you-that/ Colin mentions my friend Bryce interviewing me
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2020/06/26/bryce-harrington-interviews-the-graceful-atheist/ Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2020/11/29/colin-deconversion-anonymous/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

"Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats https://makaihbeats.net/ "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/ This week’s episode is Matt Oxley. Matt has what he calls a “Bapti-costal” background—mainstream Southern Baptist with “some extra flair and drama.” At six, he was saved, by thirteen he was “hardcore about faith” and by high school, his beliefs were his whole world. However, when he was nineteen he left church over doctrinal issues, for a called it a “sabbatical” and took a few years to genuinely examine his convictions. He knew he had to believe the “cardinal doctrines,” if he was to accept all the other beliefs. But how much could he see was wrong and still ignore it? He was no longer one hundred percent sure he believed in God, much less Christianity, and it didn’t feel like God was doing anything to help him believe. Eventually he admitted to himself that he was an atheist. At first, he became an “anti-apologist,” spreading a different gospel, but over time he has found a balance. Now that eternal retribution is no longer a possibility, Matt holds his beliefs lightly. He is able to parlay with both Christians and humanists, asking hard questions and stirring up all kinds of discussion—Biblical history, Jesus versus Paul, fundamentalism, capitalism, sexuality, and more. Today, Matt’s gospel is love. He no longer believes in a god or in struct doctrines, but he is optimistic about the church’s future. He’s influencing it for the better, once kind and hard conversation at a time. Links Raging Rev
https://ragingrev.com/ Pastor With No Answers
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pastor-with-no-answers-and-friends-podcast/id1046402610 Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Daniel. Daniel is a social scientist with a master’s degree in psychology. He grew up in the United Church of Canada, but church wasn’t a huge part of his life until high school. He then went to bible college and worked in ministry. He tried to experience God like others were, but it just wouldn’t happen. He took on the “Office of Skeptic,” for himself. He hoped it would both help his faith and the church. He could articulate questions and doubts that others couldn’t. Were these miraculous stories true? Was God really even there? If so, what the hell was he doing? Unfortunately, this only kept him in the church longer than he needed. By 2020, he’d been an agnostic theist for years and was finally seeing the harm done in North America by White Christianity. Now Daniel writes and speaks, sharing his knowledge with those struggling with addictions and other mental health needs. He no longer looks to the supernatural for miracles but knows how much human connection is the true healer. Links Here’s How Religion Imprints Us — Even When We Walk Away
https://www.templeton.org/news/heres-how-religion-imprints-us-even-when-we-walk-away Religious Identity and Morality: Evidence for Religious Residue and Decay in Moral Foundations
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167220970814 Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/10/09/daniel-office-of-the-skeptic/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

Welcome to the Graceful Atheist Podcast My name is David and I am trying to be the Graceful Atheist. I am a humanist. And I believe that human connection is the most profound experience one can have. It is this human connection that will be the focus of the podcast. There are three main themes that I want to explore: Faith Transitions, Secular Grace and Self Honesty. Faith Transitions The first theme is faith transitions from doubt to deconstruction to deconversion. If you are anything like me, the process of deconversion feels lonely and one of the first things you want to do is tell your story. But who are you going to tell? It is possible that your friends and family are still believers and they will be unlikely to appreciate your story. Even the non-believers in your life may be non-pulsed if they have never gone through a deconversion experience. Telling your story is a cathartic part of the deconversion process. If you want to tell your story for the podcast, you can remain anonymous, use a pseudonym, or if you are out as a non-believer, you can tell the world. The message of the podcast is that if you are going through a faith transition, you are not alone. Secular Grace The second major theme is Secular Grace. Secular Grace is a proactive acceptance, love and caring for our fellow human beings person to person. Think of it as humanism plus. Where humanism has tended to focus on the rational for ethics and human rights, Secular Grace focuses on human connection, belonging, awe and love. Rather than be defined by what I don't believe. I want to be defined by what I do believe. I believe in people. Self Honesty The final theme, self honesty, will be an aspirational goal and the ethos of the podcast. One of the plans I am most excited about for the podcast is a role reversal interview called “A Believer Interviews the Graceful Atheist.” In these episodes, I will have friends of mine who are believers who I trust interview me. I’ll allow them to ask the hard questions and rather than try to argue with them I’ll see if I can get them to understand why I no longer believe. If, and only if, they are interested they can come back for a second episode where I will ask them some tough questions about their faith. Join me Please join me on this journey. If you want to tell your story about your faith transition, get in touch with me at gracefulatheist@gmail.com or @GracefulAtheist on Twitter. Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 

This week’s show is a Deconversion (not so) Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Stephen Barry. Stephen was a Seventh Day Adventist who deconverted while attending college studying theology. When he was exposed to other ideas and other people even within his own faith tradition, this small amount of scrutiny led to deconversion. After losing the community of the black church, Stephen has found secular community. Though he notes we have a long way to go to be more inclusive of people of color in the secular community. Stephen is a musician and a music critic. He blogs about this love of music with great insight on Tublr. We discuss explicitly spiritual music and how we interpret it post-deconversion. Stephen’s break down of the H.E.R. song, “Lord is Coming.”
https://barryorchestra.tumblr.com/post/190207895358/barryorchestra-presents-top-50-of-2019-26 Links Twitter
https://twitter.com/barryorchestra Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/barryorchestra Blog
https://barryorchestra.tumblr.com/ Music
https://barryorchestra.bandcamp.com/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Deconversion Anonymous episodes:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

My guest this week is Jack Robertson, host of the Musings of an ADD mind podcast. He grew up with a super Evangelical Southern Baptist mother and always went to church. As a teenager he became super religious himself until a confidant let the whole youth group know he was having sex with his girlfriend. Then he stopped going to church for a while. Then late in his 30s Jack got heavily involved in an Oklahoma City based megachurch. He read through the bible three times. But, jack always had questions. “In the Exodus story god is the bad guy, not Pharaoh. If man was created in god’s image then wicked pre-flood people that were so evil he needed to destroy the world would be a reflection of him.” Jack asks himself if he really believed or if it was his ADD hyper focus on Christianity that kept him in for so long. After a friend asked for prayer for a job interview it hit him, “how would god decide? Go with whoever had the most friends pray? The person who’s friends prayed the most? Use a prayer version of comment winner generator?” After a deep dive into Mesopotamian history he realized it was all just stories. The 2016 election and then his son coming out as bi-sexual finalized his decision. He no longer believes Links Musings of an ADD Mind
https://open.spotify.com/show/0ebZTxuf9YUOrT58H4TvRK?si=DpVTS3YwSU-BuyGTEyy5lw&utm_source=copy-link Website
https://www.podpage.com/musings-of-an-add-mind/ Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/musngsofanaddmind/ Interact Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionJon Steingard
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/01/03/jon-steingard-the-wonder-and-the-mystery-of-being/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s guest is Deb. Deb “asked Jesus into her heart” at six years old and remained a devoted follower of Jesus for decades. She married her high school sweetheart, started a family and found herself living the missionary life on the continent of Africa. As the years passed, Deb’s faith was tested—praying and watching children die on two continents, her husband pointlessly fired from their church, meeting different types of Christians and the reading of diverse books. Deb had more and more questions about her lifelong faith. Today, Deb’s spirituality is one that stays curious and open to new thing, no longer holding tightly to any one creed. Her story is a beautiful one filled with compassion and love and a desire to meet people wherever they are. She is truly living out secular grace. Interact For quotes, recommendation and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/06/26/deb-is-done/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week’s show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Carly. Carly shares her story with a great deal of vulnerability and emotion. Carly was a Christian Scientist. While studying philosophy and the Bible Carly was introduced to Christian Science. She was impressed with its logical arguments and internal consistency. Carly was more evangelistic than the church she attended. She wanted to use the Christian Science reading room during SXSW as an outreach. She was shot down. When she pointed out that prohibited alcohol would be consumed by renting the space out she was shot down again. The juxtaposition of what Christian Science promised and the reality of life led her to doubt. Carly eventually found what she was looking for in more secular matters like work, exercise and therapy. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/04/11/carly-christian-science-deconversion/?gaid=gap68 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap68Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap68Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap68 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

“Good afternoon. Good evening. And good night.” This week’s episode is a compelling discussion between David and past podcast guests Jimmy and Colin. They take a deep dive into how The Truman Show mirrors the long, painful journey of deconstruction—realizing the story you’ve been told isn’t quite what it seems, pushing back little by little, and then sometimes leaving completely, walking out the door and into the darkness. “You never had a camera in my head.” They consider it all:

• The trauma and fears induced
• Infantilization
• The constant gaslighting
• The creation and controlling of relationships
• And the lies, a completely fabricated life.

All done to “love him, protect him.” They each bring their own stories to the table, stories of courage and uncertainty and a desire for truth, stories that resonate with many people. Like Truman, we can lean in when what we’ve believed no longer lines up with what we’re experiencing. We can be curious, ask questions and see where that journey takes us. Links Where to stream The Truman Show
https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/the-truman-show Final scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn5kuDdeGzs Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/21/movie-review-the-truman-show/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

My guest this week is Erin. Erin is working toward her chaplaincy and her Master's degree in Practical Theology. She describes herself as “religious, but not spiritual.” Erin grew up in Northern Ireland. She was raised to respect all people. But when she was accepted by an Evangelical Presbyterian church she became in her words “the worst kind of fundamentalist.” This included deriding Catholics. At University she excelled and found herself attracted to more liberal theologies. She says she went from Evangelical to an Open Theist to a functional atheist (agnostic). Erin also happens to be on the Autism spectrum. This had an impact on her inability to accept things on faith. She needed logical consistency. But Erin still finds value in the Christian tradition. She plans to do good in the world as a chaplain. Links and recommendations Doubts and Loves by Richard Holloway
https://www.amazon.com/Doubts-Loves-What-Christianity-Canons/dp/1786893924/ Autism Faith Network
https://autismfaithnetwork.com Autism Pastor
https://autismpastor.com/ Interact Full Show Notes https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2021/01/17/erin-religious-but-not-spiritual/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Humanist Podcast
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/podcast/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Rate and Review the Graceful Atheist Podcast
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/graceful-atheist-podcast-1136736
Make audio snippet quotes of the podcast
Vurbl: https://vurbl.com/station/4hdO0KfiVRV/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

This is the first of the Deconversion Anonymous episodes. In these episodes, people who have gone through deconversion or faith transitions tell their stories. On this episode, Susan from Scotland tells us how she grew up Presbyterian but began to ask hard questions at a very early age. She felt empathy for those who were different from herself and recognized a lack of empathy in the church leaders. Ultimately, she deconverted in her twenties and now lives with intellectual honesty, empathy and compassion on the other side of faith. If you want to tell your story about your faith transition, get in touch with me at gracefulatheist@gmail.com or @GracefulAtheist on Twitter. "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 

My guest this week is Leighann Lord, comedian, author and podcast host. She has traveled the world doing comedy and has been on VH1, Comedy Central and HBO. She has co-hosted on Neil Degrasse Tyson’s Start Talk Radio and on CFI’s podcast, Point of Inquiry. She hosts her own podcast, People With Parents. She has written two books: Dict Jokes and Real Women Do It Standing Up. Leighann went to Catholic school growing up and is now a humanist activist. Leighann was awarded the 2019 Humanist Arts Award for her work as the New York City face of the African Americans for Humanism outreach campaign sponsored by the Center for Inquiry. We talk about humanism and what it can add to the conversation about race in America. Leighann handles my naivete with grace and elegance while still pointing out the world is a complicated place and racism is a persistent problem in America. "[This] is humanism.
Human beings trying to be better humans.
Actually doing the work."
Leighann’s podcast, People With Parents, deals with the role reversal of taking care of elderly parents. It is also a raw and real look at grieving the death of parent. We discuss secular grief and the need to be more public about grief as non-believers. We geek out about comedy and how it can let truth sneak past our defense mechanisms. Leighann shares her top five comedic influences. She talks about first seeing Marsha Warfield on stage, “I didn’t know we did this. Which tells you the power of role models.” Leighann’s comedy specials which are available on YouTube, Spotify, Pandora and Amazon Prime have much to say about living in 2020 though they were recorded a few years ago. They cover race, religion, sexism, sex, wealth disparity, and the lack of education in the current administration.
Links Website
http://www.VeryFunnyLady.com Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/leighannlord/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/leighannlord People With Parents Podcast
http://www.veryfunnylady.com/people-with-parents-podcast YouTube
http://youtube.com/c/LeighannLordComedy Books
http://tinyurl.com/LeighannsBooks
Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/
Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

On today's episode I am finally getting the opportunity to discuss the topic I am most interested in: Humanism or what I call Secular Grace. It is ultimately about answering the question, "how do we live life well post deconversion?" Rather than looking backwards, it is looking forward to learning to thrive as a human being. My guest today is Jim Palmer. Jim is an ordained minister, receiving his Master of Divinity degree from Trinity Divinity School in Chicago. After serving several years as the Senior Pastor of a non-denominational church, Jim left professional ministerial life on a quest for more authentic spirituality and has authored five books about his journey. In addition to writing, speaking and his spiritual direction practice, Jim is an adjunct professor in the areas of Ethics and Comparative Religion. He is the Co-Founder of the Nashville Humanist Association and is a certified Humanist Chaplain with the American Humanist Association.  Links:
Jim's Website http://www.jimpalmerauthor.com/
Jim's Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Jim-Palmer/e/B001JSBR04
Jim's Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/jimpalmercommunity/
Jim's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimpalmerauthor
Jim's Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jimpalmer_12/
Jim's Twitter  https://twitter.com/jimpalmer
Jim's Goodreads https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/6862801.Jim_Palmer Human beings having a human experience quote:
https://twitter.com/jimpalmer/status/1109421270444240897 Clergy Project
http://clergyproject.org/ The Humanist Society
https://www.thehumanistsociety.org/ "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike

This week’s guest is Adria. Adria is a sociologist working in international development. Adria grew up in various multiethnic churches but each one seemed to worship whiteness alongside Jesus. By the end of college, Adria was done with church. Years later, in atheist spaces, she would find racism to be just as prevalent. Her experience with the Christian missionaries showed her the inequity that must exist for missionary work to thrive. In the last decade she has since seen that Western nations continue missionary work; only as evangelists for “neoliberal economic systems” rather than the gospel. Adria’s understanding of supremacy culture’s effects on humanity is invaluable to any community—church, atheist or global—working toward a more equitable world. She truly is a model of graceful atheism. We discuss international development, missionary work, economics, equity, racism, atheism, black non-believers and much more. Interact For quotes, recommendations and more see the full episode show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2022/07/31/adria-racism-in-the-missionary-field/ Catch me on former guest, Robert People’s, Affinis Humanity, Instagram live Thursday August 4th at 5 PM EDT
https://www.instagram.com/affinishumanity/ Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionSecular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/ Photo By James Barry
http://www.treaty2u.govt.nz/images/impact-main-1.jpg, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=12666818