Facilitation Stories (IAF England Wales)
Explorez tous les épisodes de Facilitation Stories
| Date | Titre | Durée | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 15 Sep 2020 | FS24 The Future of Facilitation Survey with Paolo Martinez | 00:40:33 | |
In this episode Pilar is joined from Italy by Paolo Martinez, an IAF Certified Professional Facilitator, Leader of the IAF Italy Chapter and Partner at “Futour” who empower people and organisations to design a just, sustainable and joyful future through the power of facilitation. They start by talking about how the Italian Chapter adapted to the early stages of COVID by organising a virtual Open Space every Saturday afternoon using Qiqochat. This “COVID free” meetup ran for 2 months usually with 4 facilitators supporting each week. The main focus of the conversation is a survey Paolo shared in June on the IAF Slack channel, which gained 116 responses from facilitators across the globe. The survey covers first people’s varied ideas on the foundations of facilitation but also their alignment on its theoretical foundations, broadly linked to the IAF Core Competencies. It then covers ideas, articles, books and theories that facilitators rely on including the IAF Methods Library. Paolo provides insights into how facilitators feel the profession and the World around us has changed both prior to and due to COVID. He has seen a greater a sense of being “one World”, acceleration in the use of technology and an openness and curiosity to different futures. A number of the facilitators who responded have felt refreshed by getting out of their comfort zones and have accepted the crisis as an opportunity to learn. Paolo has also seen a much greater focus on collaboration and facilitators supporting one another, particularly those with more virtual facilitation experience assisting those with less. In the face of complex challenges, respondents are recognising the value of facilitation can be increased by working together. From the final part of the survey, Paolo shares insights into the key skills needed in future facilitation including both facilitators and participants being more skilled at using digital tools; collecting evidence based case studies of the value of virtual facilitation; spending longer on storyboarding; giving clear instructions and running shorter sessions. Paolo’s concluding point reflecting on the survey is that facilitation and its principles have not changed but facilitators now need more skills and tools. The conversation shifts in its final part to a collaboration that Paolo has been involved in with Peter Lee, Founder of Video Facilitator who he also met through reference in the IAF Slack. Paolo is a licensed customer of Video Facilitator and has been providing user feedback to improve the product, including adjustments to the position and size of buttons, making improvements to security and allowing the facilitator to alter rooms “on the go”. Paolo can also now provide free support to new users of the tool. If you like what you heard and want to know more: To learn about Paolo’s work, take a look at the Futour website https://futour.it/english/, follow them on Twitter @futour or contact Paolo on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinezpaolo/ If you’re curious about the tools he mentions, take a look at Qiqochat https://qiqochat.com/about and Video Facilitator https://www.videofacilitator.com/ You can also follow Pilar on Twitter @PilarOrti To join the IAF conversation on Slack, follow the link https://join.slack.com/t/iaffacilitatorfriends/shared_invite/enQtODY4NDM0NDM4ODY4LTA0N2FlNWU4M2Y4NWZmZjM4OWRhZmM2N2Y2ZThmNmZjMjI4MzY2OWQ3ZjRiYzllZTYzNzY0MDllZTRiZGUxNzk . You can read up on the IAF Core Competencies here https://www.iaf-world.org/site/professional/core-competencies and the IAF Methods Library here https://www.iaf-world.org/site/pages/methods-library Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Or just tell us you're listening! Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast | |||
| 02 Mar 2020 | FS11 Getting started, Self-care and Fulfillment in Facilitation with Camilla Gordon | 00:29:15 | |
Camilla Gordon is a freelance facilitator trainer and consultant specialising in working with marginalised groups and communities. She talks to Helene about how she got into facilitation, how she “fell into it” and the links between theatre and facilitation. She talks about the type of facilitation she does and how she takes a create and playful approach to her work. She works a lot with young people that have voices that are not being heard enough and how she us able to use her facilitation skills to make sure people are listening. Camilla also does a lot of strategy work to help organisations take a bottom up approach. She talks about the differences and similarities working with adults and young people and how the approaches are the same but the delivery is slightly different. She uses Lego serious play quite a lot, but also how she likes to take what works from different methodologies and mix them with more creative approaches. Camilla has been working with the Refugee Youth Service in Calais and tells us a bit about what that work is and how she does it. She also says how important volunteering is for her. She then shares her thoughts on self care in some of the situations where people are working for certain causes in the voluntary sector, but also for facilitators in general. She discusses her thoughts in being relatively new to the facilitation field and how to support younger facilitators or newer facilitators. Camilla tells us about 2 pieces of work that have stood out for her and about the playful energy that she brings into her practise. You can get in touch with Camilla and find out more about her here: On twitter: Camilla: @CamillaGordon Helene: @helenejewell Other links: Please let us know your thoughts: And go mad on Twitter! @IAFenglandwales @Fac-stories @Helenejewell @pilarorti #IAFPodcast #IAFmeetup | |||
| 13 Jul 2021 | FS35 Facilitating Outdoors | 00:28:57 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Alex Williams Lead Trainer and Facilitator for nature-based learning at Muddy Feet. All Alex and her team’s facilitation is outside, taking groups of all ages out to urban and rural wild spaces encouraging nature connection. Helene asks why Alex chooses to work outdoors. This is largely as the focus of the work is linking people to their environment. It started when Alex did Voluntary Service Overseas (VSO) in the Philippines . There all planning and group work was outdoors. She then returned to do environmental projects in Manchester. This involved taking communities out to look at, and engage with their environment and think about how they could improve it. Helene recalls training before her own VSO, much of which was about using the natural environment, rather than using things that were inaccessible to people. Alex still uses all natural resources such as sticks, leaves and pebbles, although this can depend on the environment as sustainability is also important. They go on to talk about the benefits of facilitating outdoors. Alex explains the Mental Health benefits -being outside for 20 mins reduces cortisol, which reduces anxiety and enables people to connect in a more relaxing way. She finds that as it’s not a set up environment, they get more from people as they’re ready to engage and conversation flows. Helene then asks about the types of facilitation that Alex does. Alex explains that much of it is around nature connection - enabling people to connect effectively with their local environment, and to stop and notice what’s around them. They also tackle other issues for example working with children who are disengaged with school to help them to re-engage with education. They are also about to do a project with Home Start Volunteers to use nature to strengthen adult/ child relationships. They also deliver training in Forest School and outdoor learning including training teachers to take a facilitator role outdoors when delivering the curriculum. Alex then explains how they record outputs using a lot of observations, writing notes and having reflective time after each session. They also use natural art, for example using natural resources to make a representation which they can photograph and annotate after. She also adapts traditional indoor tools such as the “Jelly Baby tree” using representations of the Jelly Babies that people physically put in a tree to show and explain where they are at the beginning and end of sessions. She explains that practicalities drive the choice of methods for example using laminated paper and wipedown whiteboards. They then go on to discuss how to adapt for the weather: This includes preparing participants, dressing appropriately, and having a back up plan for shelter. They also do dynamic risk assessment and have a weather policy, to consider what conditions are safe to take groups out. Helene asks about accessibility. Like indoor facilitation, this is about knowing the needs of the participants and how to address them. They take time to identify suitable sites including those that are wheelchair accessible and do a recce beforehand with known issues in mind to consider if the site is truly accessible. In terms of where Alex and her team work, this is a mixture of public and private spaces. For private sites Alex advises seeking permission from the landowner and if working in parks and planning to use natural resources she suggests contacting the Council or responsible body to let them know you’ll be there and any possible environmental impact. Helene then asks about the impact of the pandemic. In early lockdown, they were prevented from working with groups but have been busy between lockdowns. As people have become more aware of outdoor space and things they can do this has led to more interest in Muddy Feet’s work. They have still needed to work within guidelines including reduced numbers and social distancing. Most difficult has been taking extra water out to allow for handwashing. They have also needed to ensure bubbles aren’t mixing with the public and have needed to rethink how they provide food which is an important part of what they do. Helene goes on to ask if anybody can facilitate outdoors and what are Alex’s top tips. She says that anyone can, but to learn to adapt and build confidence, she suggests going to a workshop or working with people who are experienced to see how it’s done. This might include how to put up a shelter outdoors, make yourself heard, give boundaries, adapt risk assessment processes, and safely use natural resources. There are skills to learn but don’t be afraid - start with small steps and smaller groups. Helene asks about a recommended activity and Alex describes the “journey stick” which she often uses when people first go out to help them get familiar with the space and as an icebreaker. Lots of their activities are similarly open-ended to allow participants to take activities to where they want to. She finishes by reflecting that coming out from the pandemic some people are nervous to go out and that being outdoors can be a supportive way to take part in a session without a lot of pressure, so this makes it more relaxed. Get in touch with Alex: Twitter: @feetmuddy Website: www.muddyfeettraining.co.uk And Helene: Twitter: @helenejewell | |||
| 09 Feb 2021 | FS29 Planning, Working and Leading Adventures Together | 00:33:02 | |
This episode features three initiatives from members of the IAF England and Wales Chapter. First, Nikki speaks to Mike Clargo about “Leading by Adventure”, a series of weekly adventures of around 15 minutes each, to offer people a different perspective. They talk about where the idea came from, and how Mike was struck with the thought that we need something to support us to engage with change as a game, having fun, while building skills for the future. Mike tells Nikki about some of the adventures so far, and what’s to come, revealing that having generated ideas from his network, he has two and a half years of weekly adventures ready to share! Mike explains how to find out more and get involved, simply by signing up at leadingbyadventure.com to begin receiving a weekly inbox adventure and to see the adventures that have already taken place. Next, Pilar reminds us about the range of meetups run by the IAF England and Wales Chapter, all currently online and open to Facilitators and Friends wherever you are. All of the details are on the England and Wales page of the IAF website. Then , Pilar moves on to talk to Productivity Coach Emma Cragg about the monthly Zoom-based planning sessions she’s been running. The 90 minute sessions on the last Friday of the month are designed to give people a space to plan for the month ahead. Emma tells Pilar that the idea emerged from a need she had, and the value she’s found in the sessions. They move on to talk about Emma’s wider coaching work, writing and focus on reflective routines. Emma describes some of her own daily practices and Pilar shares a little of what she’s also begun to do in terms of journaling and reflective routines. They finish the session looking back to Episode 3 when Emma first appeared on Facilitation Stories having only recently discovered the IAF England Wales Chapter at the conference in 2019. She shares details of her newsletter “Gathered Thoughts” and her blog, more details of which are available on her website ekcragg.co.uk In the final section, Pilar talks to England and Wales Chapter Board Member, Nicola Morris about a “Get it Done” day she hosted on Zoom at the end of 2020. This was a day where a group of facilitators came together, sharing what they wanted to achieve over the day and having regular check-ins to support and encourage each other with questions. The day offered both some social chat and accountability to help people to get things done and reduce the opportunity to get distracted. They found it helped them to make progress and break isolation and Nicola thinks it is likely there will be more in the future, details of which will be shared through the IAF Slack Channel and at meetups. Links: Mike Clargo – Leading by Adventure Website: www.leadingbyadventure.com Email: mc@leadingbyadventure.com Emma Cragg Website: www.ekcragg.co.uk Weekly Planning Sessions on Eventbrite: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/monthly-planning-sessions-tickets-137251820891?aff= Nicola Morris Twitter: @NicolaJMorris Get in touch: Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast and today’s hosts @PilarOrti @NiksClicks E-mail: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Find out more about us over at the https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales | |||
| 13 Dec 2022 | FS50 Wrapping Up the Year Reflecting on Our Meetups | 00:21:57 | |
We wrap up the year talking to three hosts of our Meetups to find out what's been going on in their regions: what common themes have emerged throughout the year and their plans for 2023. 01.41mins Helene Jewell tells Pilar Orti what’s been going on in the South West facilitators meetups. 12.38mins Megan Evans, co-host of the Wales/Cardiff meetup with Tanya Nash tells Nikki Wilson about what they’ve been up to. 15.46mins Adrian Ashton tells us all about what him and other facilitators have been up to in the "We are Northern" meetup - it involves plenty of zoom selfies that you can follow through #IAFMeetup. https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-evans-consultant/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanya-nash-7576b837/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianashton/ And follow Facilitation Stories on Twitter @fac_stories | |||
| 11 May 2020 | FS17 How Facilitators are Adapting to the Virtual Environment | 00:43:28 | |
In this episode Helene Jewell interviews Nicola Morris who together with Penny Walker conducted a survey to find out what facilitators feel they need at the moment, during the times of Covid 19. Participants of the IAF virtual coffee meet up in April 2020 reflect on what they got from the session, what is going on for them at the moment, facilitation with family members, the difficulty of building in the experiential element in virtual facilitation and “deep participation”. Also facilitation of community groups, the steep learning curves and feeling okay about not knowing how to do it all. The facilitators talking were:
Nicola Morris then talks to Helene about her journey into facilitation and how she has always used facilitation in some shape or form. Her current career was catalysed by early redundancy and is a mix of training and facilitation and sometimes being able to host more of an emergent session, and sometimes being more structured. She has always done a lot of work online but having to be totally responsible for it is something new. She talks about some things being easy to transfer online, going with what people want and helping them to take ownership of sessions. But then in adapting training sessions has taken a lot more thought in terms of gaining engagement. Responding to what people want and seeing the tools as the enabler is important. Nicola talks about how idea for the survey came from an IAF meet up and the realisation that as everyone is having to adapt at the moment,the IAF can help people by supporting people. There were a lot of ideas but it was also important to ask people what was needed and so a survey was created. There were 65 responses – circulated to IAF members and others via social media. Some things were about needing to know how to use tools, some people needed confidence, and also wanted to know how to sell these different ways of doing things to clients. The survey results were fed to the IAF meet up hosts and there were also plenty of offers of help from people who responded. This will be used as a pool of resources to draw on during the meetups, so that these are as powerful as possible. The meet ups allow people an opportunity to play and explore new tools in a safe space. Participants from the Online London May Coffee Meetup talked about some of their thoughts: Jonathan Bannister, Susannah Raffe and Gary Austin, led along by Martin Gilbraith They talked about how to using a microphone can help when working on line. Also how can facilitators help recover from this in a transformative way. And resilience both in terms of clients but also family and friends. There has been an explosion of tools and maybe it is possible for the IAF to stress test some of these. QiqoChat for example is a wrapper that goes around zoom and allows people to choose a room to move to. There was a discussion around how “deep” clients are wanting to go in their sessions at the moment and what that means for facilitators. And thinking about the after session support which is different now that it is not face to face. Get in touch: Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast @helenejewell @nicolajmorris
| |||
| 16 Jul 2024 | FS69 Social Presencing Theater with Rosie Cripps | 00:23:46 | |
FS69 Social Presencing Theater with Rosie Cripps
In this episode Nikki talks to Rosie Cripps, a facilitator and evaluator who helps build social movements and evaluate complex systems, about Social Presencing Theater. They talk about:
“with social presencing theater, you can get to the crux of the matter so quickly, and so, kind of precisely, and so clearly see what needs to change without barely exchanging any words at all.”
“Some people said it made them not just think differently, but feel differently”.
A full transcript is below. Links Today’s guest: Rosie Cripps on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosie-cripps/ Today’s subject Presencing Institute: https://presencinginstitute.org/ U School: https://www.u-school.org/ Arawana Hayashi Social Presencing Theater website: https://arawanahayashi.com/spt/ Social Presencing Theater The Art of Making a True Move (book), Arawana Hayashi
To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript N.W Hello, and welcome to facilitation stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Nikki Wilson (N.W), and my guest today is Rosie Cripps (R.C). So welcome Rosie.
R.C Hi, thank you for having me.
N.W So to start off with, could you tell us a little bit more about you and what you do?
R.C Yeah. So I'm a facilitator and an evaluator. I help build inclusive community-led movements and as part of this, so I've helped teach architecture students, Appreciative Inquiry, and I've been exploring the idea of universities as anchor organisations to help communities become resilient and self-sustaining. And I evaluate kind of complex, messy systems. And I usually do that using outcome harvesting, which uses lots of facilitation. So in summary, I kind of help build social movements and evaluate complex systems.
N.W Great. And so today, we're going to be talking about Social Presencing Theater. So for listeners who don't know what it is, Please, could you tell us a little bit more about it, and how a typical session might work?
R.C Okay, so this is very different from my day to day work. First of all, Social Presencing Theater uses mindfulness, movement, and reflection, to create quite dramatic shifts in perspective. So it can be used at an individual level, or with teams, with big organisations, or in quite complex systems around social justice issues, or climate change, or something like that. It was created by Arawana Hayashi, and she's a dance teacher. But it's mainly been applied across sectors by someone called Otto Scharmer. He's an academic at MIT and he basically coded what are the principles of innovation, and he turned them into a theory called ‘Theory U’. And that's all open source, because he wants as many people as possible to be tackling the complex issues of our time. But they together, Otto and Arawana, they co founded the Presencing Institute, and they use Social Presencing Theater as a means for helping people to progress past habitual thought patterns and into these principles of innovation in whatever context they're in. So I personally find Social Presencing powerful, because you can work through very kind of tricky issues where we might feel stuck or unable to move forward very quickly, sometimes taking you to a place of being more stuck. But at least you have different insight. But without having to reveal at any point, what the issue is or what the tricky situation is. And it can be also very bonding for the people who are doing it. So your group that you're working with, it's very bonding, even if you're working with a complete group of strangers.
N.W And so how might a typical session run?
R.C Yeah, a typical session. So this is tricky, because I'm new to it. And there's also lots of different methods that sit under it. Some individual based tools and techniques, and some are for very large groups. But they think the way that Otto Scharmer mainly uses it with kind of fortune 500 companies and big organisations is he uses something called 4D mapping, which was co created by I think Otto Scharmer, and Arawana. And people who also use organisational constellations, and people who use presencing more generally. And 4D mapping, basically, you map out a system using people. And then you sense together a different potential future for that system. So it allows you to see in kind of 3D what the system is currently looking like, and how it could potentially shift. And that can be really powerful. And systems mapping, because it's very malleable. I like traditionally in systems mapping, I would kind of draw out a system, and it's very fixed. Whereas in this situation, you're sensing together as a group, where are the opportunities for movement, and that can give a lot of insights into what should change.
N.W Okay. And so what would the role of the facilitator be in that environment? And how would that be different from other types of facilitation? Would you say?
R.C Yeah, I think, I think in that context, because you don't always know what the actual topic is, there's kind of two parts to it. So one is it's about making the situation safe, because I think generally, we're not used to moving as a society. We're not used to using movement and so the psychological safety is really important. And then the other aspect is you're going in blind. So you're kind of sensing the room as opposed to, in a normal situation, you can be kind of tracking the flow of the room by listening to people in their conversation them expressing what's, what's going on. Whereas in this context, it's much more about sensing what's happening in the room. And responding to that in that moment. So it's quite different actually supposed to be a lot more emotionally responsive to what they would normally be as a facilitator, I think.
N.W And, and as you've said, this is quite different to the kind of tools and techniques and facilitation work you'd normally do. So when did you first come across Social Presencing Theater? And what was it that interested you about it?
R.C So I was reflecting back recently about which of the workshops and where are the places in my life where I've had the biggest personal transformational shifts, and which have been the workshops that have made those shifts last, and they've all involved movement. And so there's two workshops I've been to in my life. The first was in my early 20s, which is kind of a week-long workshop which involved movement. And, again, involved no talking. And then I volunteered at the Never Done Before Festival, which is run by Myriam Hadnes’s community, and just stumbled across a Social Presencing Theater Workshop. And in that workshop, it was online, it was only like an hour, I think. It was people from all over the world who had never met before. And yet, even in that very short amount of time, we just did some small movements.You know, just sat at my desk, and then also some group movements just in breakout rooms, and it totally shifted my perspective. And I felt incredibly close to the people that I'd been working with, even though I'd never met them before and it was all through a computer. So it kind of made me think, Okay, I'm personally finding this stuff really powerful and interesting. But is that you know, other people's experiences. And before kind of, like throwing myself into that, I guess I really wanted to explore that further, and see if other people were getting these shifts and transformations as well. Which is why, and then I started talking to Megan Evans, he's been a kind of mentor to me, and to Ann Nkune, who I know, to a shared love of Appreciative Inquiry and time to think. So I just literally read Arawana's book, and then suggested to Ann that we run a session at the IAF Conference, which we did this year. So that's kind of how I came to it, it's not been a planned route. But I found it personally very powerful. And it's also linked in to actually, after I had children, I started dancing. And I had a complete shift really, again, in my perspective, when I just I think I lived so much in my mind, when I started dancing, I had this dance teacher who didn't teach us kind of choreographed moves, he just taught us how our body wanted to move. And I didn't know if you can actually even call it dance, it's probably just me moving around terribly, but I found it really powerful and healing, just getting out of my head and into my body. And I think that's a lot of what this is about. It's about just getting rid of those habitual thought patterns and kind of living in our minds all the time. And being in our bodies and noticing that our bodies have a lot of wisdom and knowledge that we just waste, we just waste. And the thing I found with social presencing, is we spend so much time talking especially you know, as in groups, as facilitators, we see so much talk and conversation. Whereas with social presencing theater, you can get to the crux of the matter so quickly, and so, kind of precisely, and so clearly see what needs to change without barely exchanging any words at all.
N.W Okay. And so you've mentioned that you ran a session at this year's IAF England and Wales conference,with Ann Nkune, and so could you tell us a little bit more about that?
R.C Yeah, so I mentioned earlier, there's, there's quite a lot of tools that sit under social presencing theater. So our IAF conference workshop focused around a method called ‘stuck’ and in that you take a situation where you're not moving or thriving or something's not moving forward, or maybe you're just kind of stuck in your comfort zone and you you're not really willing to step out. And you embody that situation in whatever form you want to take. You form a statue and you call that sculpture one and then you kind of sense in your body you let yourself move to a different future. that wants to emerge through you. You move to a second position, and then you call that sculpture two, and you give each sculpture a phrase. And that in itself sounds very bizarre, but is very powerful. So for instance, the other day, I had a situation where I had to report a huge amount of data to a group of people. And I was feeling incredibly overwhelmed. And so I put myself in this stuck position where I had my kind of arms up in front of my head, and was almost crouching down, and my word was overwhelmed. And then I moved into a second position, which gave me a lot of clarity. And I had another phrase, which was, they need to make sense of it. And so I in my head, I've been getting stuck over and over with trying to make sense of all these overwhelming amounts of data, when in actual fact, it kind of shift the perspective straight way for me in that I didn't need to be making sense, but I just needed to be presenting them with data. So that's just an example of where you might use stuck. So we use stuck. And then you start off working through your own stuck practices, even from sculpture one to sculpture two. And then you extend that out as a group. So in our workshop, and in most social presencing situations, we don't at any point, know what issue someone is working through. So you'll do your sculpture one to sculpture two on your own, and then you extend that out as a group without explaining what it is that you're working through. And the other people in our group will help extend out our stuck situation. So they become other players in the system. And they help enhance that feeling of stuck, and also give a different perspective on it. So So in my situation where I was stuck with feeling overwhelmed with all this data, I might have someone standing in front of me who's representing all the hundreds of interviews that I've done. And then I might have someone stood behind me, who is representing the people that I have to show all this data to. And then we would move together as a group, so they wouldn't know what this issue is about at all, but they might look at me and say, You look pained or, or I'm seeing confusion, something like that. And then we'd all move together with no idea where each other we're going to move or any sense of where we should move, we just move wherever feels right at the time. And then we'll move collectively together into a second sculpture. And then again, they'll give their perspective on the situation. So they might say, you know, you look freed or relieved or something like that. And the other people's insights can be just as valuable as your own. And I think for me, and our IAF session, that was what people found most powerful is working through something as a group, without anyone in the group knowing what it was about, except for that one individual. And even though as a group members, for example, I've done this a number of times, even in situations where I don't know what the person's going through, I can personally find it very moving as well. I think just by moving together as a group is very bonding in itself and illuminating. So we did that at the IAF conference, we did this stuck on our own and then stuck as a group. And then we use time to think, to reflect on what those processes felt like to the groups involved.
N.W Okay, and so you've mentioned, I think that this session was for you a bit of an exploration of how to use this. So what were your personal kind of takeaways from that session?
R.C I think there were a lot of takeaways, actually. I think the main thing was that it was something other people found powerful. So I went in thinking, okay, is this just me, in fact, I was there the night before in my hotel, and I was thinking, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? Because I'm going to a conference I've never been to before, co facilitating with someone I've never met before, on a subject that I've only read a book about. You know,I didn't know whether this is going to be something that anyone else would get anything from at all. So the main takeaway was, oh, wow, okay other people are finding this useful as well. And I think having spoken to a few people after the conference, they said, you know, it's one of the sessions where they were able to go deepest. And again, I think that's because they didn't have to talk about anything that they were kind of working through. So as a facilitator that's quite strange because you're kind of blind to all of that. But it's really nice to be able to create a space where people can work through some quite tricky personal issues. So yeah, there was that, that it was helpful. Some people said it made them not just think differently, but feel differently. And that, you know, someone else mentioned that there's something that they've been talking to people about for months and months and months, and just couldn't see a way out of this situation that then had done that, and then could instantly see a way through. So I was like, Okay, great. I feel like it's, it's a useful tool. So that was the main thing. I also noticed that maybe it isn't for everyone, and getting the context is going to be right. And I think for Ann and I, we both kind of felt that we recognise that it was probably more powerful, like using movement is more powerful than we originally expected. And thinking about how we prepare the room for the emotions, it can trigger as well, I think is quite important. But yeah, just the overwhelming thing I took away was the kind of desire to experiment with other people more, to try it out with other people more. And so then that evening, I think went back to my hotel room and signed up to a course in Berlin to properly train in it.
N.W Great. And so you've neatly led into my next question, really, about that course, and what happened on the course? And what did you learn there?
R.C Yeah, so the course was a two day course with Arawana Hayashi herself. So that was really exciting, because she kind of founded it all. And it was with 43 other people from all over the world, actually, but mainly from Europe. I think there were four people from the UK. And we went through all the different types of techniques, which she describes in her book called Social Presencing Theater. And yeah, it was, it was just incredibly insightful. There were lots of different techniques that we tried out, some, you know, just on our own, some as a whole group of 43 people, some in small groups, all that can be used in different contexts. And again, I think by the second day all of us were just feeling like, why would you bother talking anymore? It just seems like such a waste of time, when you can kind of get so much clarity and connection with others in silence, you know, just by moving together. But it's called Social Presencing Theater, but it's not about theater, it is just about moving and embodying. There's no acting element to it. There's nothing theatrical actually about it at all. It's just a way of using, thinking with our bodies as well as our minds. Yeah. So the training was fantastic, gave me loads of ideas and met loads of connections, lots of people who were also thinking about using it in all kinds of leadership scenarios. And actually some massive issues about, you know, tackling climate change and deforestation in the Amazon and all these different frameworks, people using it for and all of them finding it ,yeah, a really interesting method of breaking just habitual thought patterns and approaches to situations and thinking about things really differently.
N.W Okay. And so I know that you, you weren't on the course very long ago. So this might be a difficult question to answer. But what are your current thoughts on how you might take it forward and put it into practice? Yeah,
R.C Yeah, so I think main thing at the moment, which is very much just a thought process, to help serve this, but Ann and I are thinking about experimenting, doing another session at London Lab, which is linked to the London IAF group. So we're thinking about doing that in maybe September or October. And I'm personally thinking about how I built it into my work with systems thinking and systems mapping. So it's part of the evaluation work I do, we do a lot of systems thinking work. And I think using it in that context is really helpful, because it's a really malleable way of looking at how we can change and shift systems, but also even the stuck practice, which is just within individuals. You know, through all my systems based work, the one thing that stands out is that unless we change people, you know, we can't change systems. And the stuck practice itself is a way of really helping people shift their perspective on their role within a system and what they can do individually to change things. So yeah, I'm thinking about how I can build into my work. And I'm also just looking for as many people as possible to collaborate with who'd like to experiment with Ann and I on this.
N.W Great. And you mentioned earlier that in your IAF session, you combined this with time to think, are there other kinds of facilitation tools and techniques that you think could work well alongside social presencing theater if you're building this out into something you would use in other contexts?
R.C Yeah, I would say on that, that Ann and I used time to think at the end of the session, and we were also thinking about it from an Appreciative Inquiry perspective, because that's what both of us use primarily in our work. Having said that, at the training, it really shifted my perspective, because I think one of the things which they tried to focus on with social presencing is, is moving out of these habitual thought patterns. So they just focus on what did you do? What did you see? What did you feel? And so I think probably, I wouldn't use time to think with it anymore, possibly, or maybe use elements of time to think that not, not use exactly the same principles. And I think that also relates back to the psychological safety element as well, you're never really conceptualising with anyone, what it is you're working through, maybe not even yourself. And I think that's actually helpful, because we get so bogged down in our thought patterns. So I think keeping it very just in the moment in your body, like touching, not overthinking anything is quite important with the process. So yeah, what tools would I use it with is possibly Appreciative Inquiry, maybe as a precursor to that. And then systems mapping and any group work where you're working through individual challenges collectively as a group, maybe it's support groups or something like that.
N.W That's great. So if listeners would like to find out more about social presencing theater, where should they look?
R.C Okay, so there's a book by Arawana Hayashi called social presencing theater. I think it's called The Art of Making a True move. There's also a website. So Arawana has a social presencing theater website, which is really interesting. And then there's also this wider context of ‘Theory U’. So Otto Scharmer, and Arawana have a website called the U-school, literally the letter U hyphen school. And that gives a wider framework to the work as well, which is, they have loads of open source training as well, which is really interesting, if anyone was interested in that.
N.W Brilliant and how about if people want to get in touch with you after this? Particularly as you've got a call out there for collaborators and fellow experimenters as it were.
R.C Yeah, probably just LinkedIn is best for me.
N.W Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Rosie. That's been really interesting. And I hope to hear more about where you, where you take this forward. But thank you for sharing where you've got to today so far.
R.C Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And I look forward to hopefully hearing to some people who are interested in experimenting.
Outro
H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF England and Wales.
N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved all of the links on our website facilitationstories.com
H.J To make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use.
N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?
H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about N.W Then send us an email at podcast@IAF-EnglandWales.org
H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more facilitation stories.
N.W Until then, thank you for listening.
| |||
| 12 Jan 2021 | FS28 Exploring Metaphorum with Judy Rees | 00:20:09 | |
FS28 Exploring Metaphorum with Judy Rees – Show Notes Today’s episode starts with an overview of upcoming IAF meetups from Pilar, with a specific invitation to join a Networking and Learning Meetup at 9.30am GMT on 20th January, hosted by Helene Jewell and Sue Windley following up on a session Helene ran in International Facilitation Week on making online events accessible. We then move on to a conversation between Nikki Wilson and Judy Rees, reflecting on the fifth “Metaphorum”, a 13 hour virtual event focused on Clean Language and Metaphor which took place on 4th December. Judy has been running Metaphorum as it’s “benevolent dictator” annually, and she first explains to Nikki how the idea came about and moved from an idea into action. Judy reflects that her initial interest came from learning about “Open Space” and deciding to experiment with taking this online, with the global “Clean Language” community. The conversation moves on to considering the value of Metaphorum to participants which keeps Judy running it each year, but also the ways in which it has evolved over time. Nikki and Judy talk about the impact that COVID has had on enabling participants to feel more comfortable using Zoom and what this has meant for the structure of Metaphorum, particularly bringing in more Open Space elements, whilst acknowledging it is not “perfect” Open Space. Judy also talks about her gradual move away from having a “room” dedicated to “big name” speakers, allowing all content to be proposed by participants. As Qiqochat was used for the first time this year, Judy then tells Nikki about the opportunities and challenges that brought to arranging and delivering Metaphorum and the potential to run a similar event next year. Finally, they talk about Judy’s self-description as a “benevolent dictator” in the context of Metaphorum, how this enables decisions to be made effectively, but also what this means for an Open space format. Judy additionally reflects on how supporting teams with decision-making has also begun to feature more broadly in her work. Links To attend the Meetup on the 20th January book using this link: https://www.meetup.com/IAF-South-West-England-facilitators-and-friends/events/fpkdvrycccbrb/ To learn more about Judy and her work, you can use the following links: Website: www.reesmccann.com Twitter: @JudyRees LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judyrees/?originalSubdomain=uk And you can also access a host of information to learn more about Clean Language through her dedicated website and YouTube channels: Website: www.learncleanlanguage.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/XraylisteningJR/featured You can discover more about Qiqochat following this link: http://www.qiqochat.com You can follow Nikki on Twitter @NiksClicks To find out more about IAF England and Wales or to contact the Podcast team, you can use one of the following: E mail: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org | |||
| 14 Nov 2023 | FS61 Authentic Facilitation with Christine Bell | 00:34:03 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Christine Bell about a session they co-facilitated for Facilitation Week. They share some of the group’s thoughts on what authentic facilitation is as well as some of their own emerging questions on how to balance being authentic but remaining in control and whether authenticity can be learned or taught. They also reflect on their first experience of planning and facilitating together and how liberating it was to deliver a session with no required outputs and without using some of the “usual” facilitation tools. A full transcript is below. Links: Contact Christine by email: christinebell@centreforfacilitation.com Find Helene on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Listen to our podcasts: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ Connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories Email: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org
Nikki Wilson (NW) Hello, and welcome to Facilitation Stories brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. In today's episode, Helene Jewell speaks to Christine Bell.
Helene Jewell (HJ) So in today's podcast, I am going to be chatting to Christine Bell, Director of Centre for facilitation. Welcome, Christine.
Christine Bell (CB) Hi, Helene, nice to be with you again.
HJ And it wasn't actually that long ago that I saw Christine, because we did a session together for Facilitation Week all about Authentic Facilitation. And that's what we're going to be talking about in today's podcast. But before I lead into asking Christine, lots of questions about that and doing a bit of reflecting, I just want to ask Christine to tell us a little bit about her facilitation practice. So what kind of work do you do, Christine.
CB I mainly work with researchers and innovators and looking at different ways of doing things, different approaches, trying to get them to collaborate with each other and kind of break down some of the barriers and get to know each other so that they can start to find out interesting connections between different bits of research and then mash it together to come up with something new and interesting, that breaks through some of the challenges that we're facing, environmentally, socially, etc.
HJ Right. Okay. And we have never actually worked together, but I think it's fair to say we know each other through the IAF, or through the larger facilitation community. Yeah, yeah, we've probably, we've probably met quite a few times on the different online forums. And then at the conference, I think the Conference this year was first time we actually met in person. And then and then we met in Bristol, because I was working in Bristol.
HJ So yeah, so our paths have crossed a few times and then feed somehow, you have this great idea about doing a session in Facilitation Week, and you thought “Ah yes I’ll ask Helene”
Well, first of all, let's start with Facilitation Week, what is Facilitation Week?
CB Facilitation Week is a week of different activities designed for the facilitation community so that we can learn and develop from each other and explore different aspects of facilitation. And, and I was very conscious that my time is really quite limited, like, you know, with my time because of all the elderly care issues that are going on for me. So I give very little back to the community. So it felt like it would be quite a small thing for me to do and quite manageable to just offer to run a short session within Facilitation Week. So that was, that was the starting point. And then I learned because I also did that for the facilitation in person event in May. And I learned then because I got involved with another facilitator to run a session there, , actually, if you're going to do it, why not use it as a learning opportunity for myself to actually work with a peer that I don't usually work with, and just learn from that person kind of share best practice together, because then it's actually a developmental experience for me, and not just me doing a free bit of facilitation. And a free bit of, you know, I can facilitate and design facilitation all day long, and that's my job, but to actually to do it with a peer that I don't usually work with just makes that more, it’s more fun. And it's more developmental as well. So, yeah, so you came into my mind, because I thought, oh, yeah, I'd like to work with Helene. I think it would be fun.
HJ It was so nice, it was like “yes, of course”, like, and I think it's true that Facilitation Week is that there's loads of different sessions, and they're hosted by loads of different people all over the world. So in a way, there's that opportunity to explore and connect, and it's fairly low risk. It's a really nice way to sort of get to know people.
And yes, I remember your session that was for the May conference, I think,and so I was quite quite pleased. I thought, well, this is a nice opportunity, because we've connected a bit online. We've been to those meetups and the conference together. And yeah, I thought, Well, this sounds like a good idea. And I know originally, you kind of thought about two different things. I can't remember.
CB Yeah, I can't remember what the other one was. But you jumped on the authenticity and when, because I went “I’m vaguely thinking this authenticity”. And I think that was because I just finished my last piece of work for the summer, which had been avert a hybrid conference, and someone had commented about my style and approach and how different and distinctive it was to other online facilitator that they’d worked with. And I think I was reflecting on that and recognising actually, that is, one of my strengths is that I can be in the virtual environment, and I feel natural in that environment.
HJ So yeah, I remember you sending an email and thinking about these two different options. And the authenticity stuff really jumped out at me, I think, partly because a lot of the time when we talk about doing sessions, for you know, things like Facilitation Week, I think it's really easy to jump to sort of tools and techniques and sharing that kind of stuff. But I was really intrigued by this, because I thought it's something quite different. But also, I wasn't quite sure where it might go. And I'm quite, I'm always quite keen to try and explore things and see sort of what what could be. So I think when you suggested that, I thought, “Great, that's a good starting point. Let's, let's jump in there and and have a little go and see where it goes”. And it's probably fair to say that that was, that was the way our planning worked a little bit.
CB Yeah, it was, I think it was, it was a little chaotic. And then I think I had, I had a quiet period, it was just before the beginning of August. And so I started, I intellectualised about it, which is how I often go. So I did some research. And I started like pulling out all this stuff on authenticity. And it wasn't really, it kind of just made it feel quite sterile. And I thought that's not really it. That's not what I'm talking about here. Then my kind of as happens in the whole of this year, my mum went into hospital again. So I was back into a crisis period. So I didn't have much time to think about it. And so then when you got back from your holiday, we were kind of scrambling around going “right, what is it we're trying to do?” And that's when I came up with the title.
HJ It was, “Am I? Can I? Should I?, which I think actually intrigued people in itself. So I think that was great that it was such a sort of organic. That's nice. Yeah, but it just Yeah, did it just appear? Or did you spend a long time thinking?
CB No, no, I think it just I went for a bit of a walk. And I just, and it kind of came to me. And it was because this, the way of these things is you often have to come up with your title for the marketing before you've really thought what the session is going to be about. So I didn't want to kind of make it too prescriptive that we would then have to fit into. And I think as I was thinking about it was those dialogues, those kinds of things about what am I actually authentic? You know, is that what I'm coming across here? When people say to me about how I come across as a facilitator and how relaxed they feel with me, is that about authenticity? And then the kind of what is it I do to become authentic? So that's the kind of learning piece? And is it something that you intuitively do? Or is it something that you can actually learn to do? And then the “should” bit was because I think mainly because I was going through that crisis with my mum, as you know, and, you know, there are times when I've had to just put the face on. And you know, internally, I'm crying. And actually, I've got to kind of be out there being positive and engaged Whilst this is going on in the background. And I'm worrying about it. And so, you know, in some ways, is that true authenticity, if we're having to put a bit of a mask over to our feelings? But actually, should I really be truly authentic with a big group do 60 people need to know all my emote stuff that's going on? They just like me to get on with my job and facilitate.
H Yeah, and it's so intersting, because I know, when we were talking about, you know, what do we what is this session gonna be like, what do we need to put in there, we did have a lot of conversations about that kind of stuff. And I know for from my side, it has been suggested by a couple of people that, you know, like you perhaps I'm quite, I don't know, quite energetic, perhaps quite personable in my facilitation style, quite, maybe quite relaxed, but that sometimes I need to maybe dial down my energetic-ness, that kind of outward enthusiasm for a session, let's say, because that doesn't fit with the session, because the tone of the session needs to be different. And so for me, that was one of the questions that I know, I brought into our discussions about, well, when is it good to dial up or dial down your natural self? And when do we need to be a certain way? Um, so yeah, thinking about your example there, you know, you've got stuff going on. That's actually, you know, it's really affecting the way you do things and to have to put on that that face. How does that feel and how does that work? And I think we ended up having these really fascinating conversations between ourselves before we actually even got into the session.
And I almost think that it's the kind of conversation that's almost quite hard to put into a session, because it is very organic in a way that it can go, there's so many different elements to it, it can kind of go left or right or all over the place. You know, there's lots of different bits. And so, in a way, I think the way that we we did the session, it was quite open, and we sort of went with the flow, it felt quite right.
CB And some of that was kind of by default, wasn't it? Because originally, I was saying, “I could use this new, you know, I'm learning over the summer, I want to learn how to use this new tool. And maybe we could use that” and, and then because all of this stuff happened with my mum, I didn't have the headspace to deal with that. And actually, then we started talking about it, you and I, and we had so many conversations planning it we would just go off into kind of like, oh, this is a really, I knew then that the session was going to work because we just the pair of us could sustain an hour's conversation on authenticity, really, really easily. And so I think that's at that point, we went, why are we worrying about capturing this, we don't need any output. This is facilitation, we, it's a group of random strangers, we don't have to make any decisions, we don't have to come to any conclusions. We don't have to produce a bit of output for a client and so all the stuff that we usually do, we just stripped it right back, because we realised that we had a joyous time just talking about this. And so we worked on the assumption that our participants would come to this as facilitators, and would engage with it. And by stripping away all of the usual periphery stuff, we just made it feel quite natural, and therefore authentic.
And that's kind of a couple of them said something in their feedback about how we had made it right from the beginning, a really relaxed session so they could bring their authentic selves. And the conversations very quickly got to a quite a deep, authentic level with random strangers. And they were all going crazy at the end sending each other, you know, putting in the chat or the chat, I was going through the chat. And it's like, yeah, this is my email. This is my, who cares about data protection, here's my email, contact me, here's my LinkedIn details. And in a way, yeah, that that's not always usual in an online session.
HJ Yeah. And I think it's at that point about, they're not needing to be a particular output, I think is really important. But I think the other thing about working with somebody you haven't commonly worked with, there's that trust building, I guess, relationship building piece. And I feel like we inadvertently did a lot of that behind the scenes, which meant that perhaps, as a co facilitation team, that it worked really well on the day and that we were able to, to hold those conversations without having to worry too much about some of the logistics and all that kind of stuff, which I think sometimes you can worry about, I think it felt like we didn't have to worry too much. It felt like we had quite a strong team, I suppose.
CB Yeah. structure as well didn't we so I mean it was like, you know, I'm gonna do this bit, you're gonna do this bit, you're gonna organise the breakout groups in the background, and you're doing that bit and I was doing the breakout rooms. And it's like, so we kind of made sure that we knew we didn't, it didn't feel like we crossed, we kind of crossed over each other. It felt like we were holding this together.
HJ Yeah. So I don't, of course, don't want to give anybody the idea that we we didn't plan the session. I promise. We did we used session lab. We did have a nice plan. I think it was more about the way that we put that together. But going back to the session then and how many people did we actually have because one of the things that I was really pleased about and not surprised necessarily but but really pleased that it was actually quite a global audience was an audience, a global load of participants. But how many?
CB think we had about 14 in the end. So we restricted registration, because that was partly me just feeling like “I can't I've got too much going on” and the complexity of having a really big group when you want to have a plenary discussion, because we decided we wouldn't do everything as a feedback thing. We would have a lot of stuff in the groups and then our last session would be a plenary. And to have a really massive plenary, just I felt would have been more difficult for people to be themselves and to share stuff, so we had a much smaller group, so I limited the Zoom registration to I think 30, something like that. And yeah, and then we had about an you know, the usual attrition of people not turning up and someone turned up, I think 12 hours later, you know, the usual thing you someone didn't read the time zones. But we yeah, we did., we had people from Europe. And so we have someone from Greece, someone from Austria, and then we had a really nice clutch of people from India,
HJ It was really nice to see that truly sort of lots of people that, that I'd never seen before I didn't have a particular connection were very new to me. And a few sort of faces that I know as well. But it was a really nice group of people. And so reflecting back then, on what we actually did, I remember one of the things that you suggested we do right at the start of the session was to put people in trios, I think, and send them straight into breakout rooms. And that felt like people were able to have these conversations straight straight away before we launched into the session. So I really enjoyed that. And then we came back. And what did we do after that? I'm trying to remember what our first bit was.
CB I think we started very much about what is authenticity? What does it mean? What does authenticity mean? So we kind of almost used that structure. So we started off with the kind of me Yeah, am I authentic? And so what do I do that shows that authenticity? And what does that mean to me? And then we moved on more about into the can I be more authentic? So what can I consciously do? Because I think you talked about that. And particularly, what can I consciously do I remember, we were talking about the headsets. And like, you know, the first time you have to wear, well, the first time I had to wear a headset, because I had a very large group that I was facilitating, and the acoustics were bad. So I did that “I don't need a headset, I can and it's like, no, you can't be heard. It's not fair. And people who've got hearing difficulties that you kind of do this, it's not great for your voice. So just put the headset on and get on with it”. And I spent the whole session feeling a bit like Madonna or Kylie or a pop star with this kind of thing. It was one of those ones that had the kind of headphones thing. And it felt like I kept referring to it. And it got in the way of me being authentic. And we were just talking about yo know, how do you consciously manage in those situations where you're there is some kind of restraint or you're feeling you're not in your normal comfort zone, you've had to move out of that for some reason? And how do you consciously bring yourself back to that authentic self? So that was that was a really interesting conversation? Well, we think they were didn't we, Helen, because we didn't actually join, though, consciously decided to send people off into breakout groups, and not do that kind of, I'm going to be really nosy and drop into the breakout groups, because we felt that was going to affect the authenticity of the breakouts. And it serves no real purpose.
HJ Yeah. Really interesting having that conversation in our planning about, you know, the benefit of that and how or the risk or how that might work. And I know the feedback at the end suggested that people really appreciated having that time in breakout. So it was, the time was about them having those good conversations, rather than there being too much weight on having to share it or they're having to be an output particularly it was about them having those good conversations. And it really felt like that went down well, but yeah, we weren't, we weren't able to go in or we could have done but we decided not to go into the breakout groups and be nosy. But then we did do some plenary at the end, didn't we?
CB Yeah, that's right. Because we realised in our plan, like we looked at the session law, I remember looking at the session level going and we do that there's just not enough. It's like actually, we need more time to have a plenary with a whole group at the end. And so we just shifted things, we didn't have mini plenary and then big plenary, we just went bang straight from breakout groups into a large plenary, which wasn't that large because the size of the group. And I think that was really good because we had a good 20 minutes or so for the final plenary, though that was when we really got a sense of the growth that had gone on in the conversations and that's when we heard conversations that have gone on.
HJ And I was trying to remember what those conversations were what were some of the key highlights because I know you did a survey at the end as well so we asked people to to say what their highlights were and what they got from the session but what do you recall as being the key things that people said back from their conversations?
CB I've got a few things that were written in the because we used the chat quite a lot we encourage people to put stuff in the chat so I've got things like”Being authentic means letting your guard down or showing more about what's going on inside your head and gut and this can help others know it's okay to be vulnerable, doubtful, not know they're there with you not being this polished person, but someone who's real. And someone else has put something about authenticity means “being on yourself natural and focused, yet actually being in control”. So there was, I think we're all aware that there was that kind of, you can't be completely natural like “Actually I’m feeling really tired today, so let's just sack this off and go make a cup of tea, because you've got a job to do. So you're focused on the actual task, but it's about being as natural and relaxed as you can. And then there was a lovely quote from one of our participants from India of “authenticity is about, you've got the head stuff going on, which is your process. You've got your heart stuff going on, which is your being there and feeling for the group and wanting to the group to succeed. And then he was sharing about the hands Yeah, yeah. And it's like, and we all kind of went, Yeah, that's kind of it. Because in the virtual situation, like we're both on screen, in a way that isn't just our heads, we've consciously adapted our virtual environment. So it shows my hands are part of my facilitation, virtually, they add movement, and direction and things and, and when you're in the physical space, you're using your body in that way, as well. So it's, you're not this stiff person who's you know, those kind of guidance about how to present where they say, you should always hold your hands behind your back or in front of your body? And it's like, no, that's not gonna happen.
HJ And I really, I think that phrasing of how, you know, using our hands together with mind and hearts, or how I can't quite remember how he phrased it, but it when he said it, it really landed with people, I think he really kind of hit the nail on the head, and that idea, that you whatever's going on in your head, whatever you're thinking, and that feeling that and then the how you present yourself, I guess, how you you move around, and what your body does, and all that kind of stuff, that those three things happen together to be that authentic you and I, it really struck a chord, I think with with us and with most of the people there and found that really, really insightful. And it also made me think about it was something that somebody else said on the back of that think about, about us understanding what as facilitators, or as people, in fact, make us fearful or excited or pleased or worried or what, what situations we find ourselves in that make us feel like that, and about how we react? And then so how do we react to fear? How do we react to stress? And what do we do about it, then how do we change the way we are in those different situations? And I think that sort of led to this whole different train of thought, for me anyway, away from this just thinking about how I present as a person based on who I am. But actually, all those different situations. Yeah, lots of lots of different stuff to sort of think about.
CB And then we got into that very useful conversation about the, you know, other times when I cannot or should not be truly authentic. And we had a couple of comments about, you know, or maybe there's occasions that so one of the quotes here is there's occasions when being authentic, might not be helpful, for example, when working in different or across cultural contexts. And someone was saying, Yeah, I find that that's very true. When I'm facilitating workshops with government officials and the disadvantaged communities. And so there's kind of like that realisation that there is that moderation sometimes that you have to do have the authentic part of you.
HJ Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's so interesting that that piece about like, how do we actively or how much should we actively change who we are and what we do for the needs of it needs, the participants needs the client needs of the situation we're in and thinking about that alongside the, yeah, who we naturally are and how we respond. And anyway, there's just lots of lots and lots of really lovely stuff to think about think. OK so then thinking about what we learned, what were your sort of key learning points.
CB I think, in terms of process that keep it simple thing, it was really important, the fact that we just, we had an hour and a half, we didn't use any tools, we didn't use Jamboard, we didn’t use a whiteboard, we didn't use mural, we didn't use Menti. We didn't use any of the tools that we might usually use. We just used conversation and the chat and that was it and, and it worked.
It was quite liberating, I think, to have just that and that for this particular workshop, because we didn't need to bring it to a conclusion or produce output. It was enough just to say, we've had the conversation. That's it.
And I think sometimes I'm probably as guilty as anyone else of overcomplex, you know, making things more complex because you think the client is paying for you, but sometimes maybe simple is exactly what's needed. So I think that was yeah, that was a really good learning insight for me about the process. What about for you Helene?
HJ I really like you're putting people into breakout groups straightaway, actually, because I think it's something I haven't done before. I always start with a hello, welcome, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But actually, I think it's because it feels a bit of a risk. But actually, I think it's a really nice thing to do. So I really love that in terms of the process. And similarly, having a giving people a lot of space. And I think it feels like a bit of a luxury because as facilitators, as you say, normally you have to come out there's an output isn't there, there's a requirement to get to a certain point. And I think that, yeah, luxury of time to just explore and chat around a few simple questions. I think I really enjoyed that as well. Yeah. And also your, your survey, you did a survey at the end. And I thought you were going to you had a zoom poll. And it was a whole new learning thing for me that there was Zoom, zoom survey. So despite the fact we weren't actually doing a session, which was about learning tools, I learned a couple of things anyway, what about the authenticity, then what did you learn was there any learning for you around authenticity, or anything that you think you might take away, do differently?
CB I don't think it is doing anything differently, I think, continuing to be conscious about it. And I think as someone who is very senior, as the facilitator, I've got the responsibility to bring on newer facilitators, younger facilitators, less experienced facilitators. So I think for me, it's just trying to figure out, I know that I come across authentically, and the feedback from this workshop confirmed that, and the workshop that I was running in July also kind of highlighted actually, this is a distinctive thing that I do compared to other people's experiences of facilitators, but I'm not quite sure how I do it. So actually spending a bit of time just thinking about that as the skill set and thinking, Well, how do I get other facilitators that are working with me, who bring this trait in When it's something I can't I don't quite know how I do it?
And I think some of it's just the experience, I think some of it is the way I started on my facilitation when I was quite Junior in an organisation and I was having to kind of find a way of expressing my power as a facilitator, but without that status and power that I had, because of age, that I came at it in quite a relaxed way. And so how do I communicate that with to others? How do I teach others to be that authentic self in themselves? And I think so yeah, that's, I don't think I've come away going, right. And that's how I'm going to do it. But it's given me time and space, especially talking to you in the preparation. And during the actual session itself. It's just given me time and space to kind of think about, yeah, this is this is a trait. And it's actually probably one of the most important traits, that seems because if if participants feel we're being authentic, they trust in the process, they trust in us, they buy into it, they engage. And so the rest of it becomes a lot easier.
HJ Yeah. And I think it's really so I think a couple of things that stood out for me, just then, as you were talking, there's the seniority thing I think, the more you are used to facilitating and the more you have practised and you feel comfortable, I guess in knowing what you're doing, perhaps the less you are worried about how you are as well, you can think your focus is is very different. When you haven't done a lot of facilitation, there's so much to worry about. Whereas I think the more experienced you are perhaps you don't have to worry so much about whether you've got I don't know pink, post it or blue post it so you know all that stuff that when you first start out, you spend a lot of time really and really stressing about some things, I think and so perhaps that then gives you the space to be more authentic because you're not worrying about things that actually you know, they're quite important but but the later as you carry on in your career, I think they'd become less important perhaps and that Yeah, the other
The thing was this idea of can you teach authenticity? And I think something you said earlier about teaching people to walk or put your hands in a certain way and that kind of thing. I always find that way of talking about being, as a facilitator, quite, quite interesting, because actually, I'm not sure you can you can't, you know, one size doesn't fit all. You shouldn't, or put your hands in a certain way, because that means this or sit down stand up. I think it's all very dependent on the situation, isn't it? So? Think that's quite a question. Can you teach somebody to be more authentic? I'm sure there are people that do I'm sure you can. But how you go about that I think’s really fascinating.
And yeah, I think that you started off saying that you had you had perhaps come to this from a slightly more academic point of view. And it has made me think a bit, there's just loads and loads of literature out there to really explore this stuff. Because there is like a thread, isn't it? You pull up a thread, and you realise there's more and more and more, and the more we have these conversations, the more you realise there's so much depth to it. So such an interesting topic.
CB Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's what I came away with is like, actually, it's a fascinating subject. And let's have more conversations about it. Because it was, you know, really enjoyable to have a conversation on I think everyone who came, kind of, the feedback was just like, if this was really interesting, and really enjoyed these conversations. Yeah, hope we continue these conversations, it was really useful talking to the others. I learned a lot. You know, these are just all the things that people were just saying it's like, and someone said, I'd love to hear other facilitators, stories about these edgy situations, you know, the edge of when the authenticity is under attack, or when it when you feel you're having to make a shift in yourself to dial it down, like you said, or in my situation to mask some of the emotional turmoil that's going on? And it's like, where are those edgy stories will be quite fascinating about, yeah, facilitators on the edge of, of authenticity, and things like that.
HJ That sounds like a great blog, Christine, challenge for you.
CB I think one last thought that's popped into my head actually is the sort of cultural dimension of it, by which I mean, you know that how authenticity differs depending on where you're from, and I don't know what language you speak and your culture. So that that's an element that I think I'd love to explore further as well. So but you can only do so much in an hour and a half., so next time, authenticity part two.
Brilliant. Thank you so much, Christine, for joining me today. It's been really great to reflect on the session and to relive some of the you know, how we put it together the conversations that happened in the session and to think about kind of what next as well. How do we reach you if we want to get hold of you?
CB You simply contact christinebell@centreforfacilitation.com
HJ Fantastic, thanks and see you soon.
CB Bye.
PO And that's the end of today's episode of facilitation stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on whatever podcast app you use. And if you would like to contribute to the show, you can get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org Or you can get all the other links from our website facilitationstories.com.
There this has been Facilitation Stories brought to you by IAF England and Wales.
| |||
| 18 Nov 2019 | FS4 Lee Button and His Journey as a Certified Professional Facilitator | 00:23:40 | |
Lee Button is a freelance facilitator and Senior Partner at WeAreBPG. Lee tells us how he first came across facilitation, when he was part of a session run by someone who was leading a group process, enabling those present to create the content, and how that led to Lee taking his first steps in developing himself as a facilitator. Having some "stamp of approval" was important for Lee, so he describes how he went about his training, starting with The Patterson Centre in Chicago. On his return to the UK, Lee thought, "There must be others doing this here..." and he found the IAF. It's the joy of seeing others come alive to their own knowledge and solutions, even though he doesn't understand the context and content of what they're discussing, that drove Lee to pursue a career in facilitation. Lee explains how he sees where he sees the value of accreditation and how he sought the group where he could be part of the conversation and learn from his peers - guess what, his journey drove him to Martin Gilbraith, who led him to the IAF England Wales Meetups and network. Lee talks in detail about the certification process to become a Certified Professional Facilitator with IAF - and how the process continues to help him to develop. (For more on this process visit https://www.iaf-world.org/site/professional/cpf ) WeAreBPG is the company that Lee co-founded, in order to give as much value as possible to his clients, with his collaborators. They've taken a unified approach to their development and training, and formalise their facilitation route. On their website, WeAreBPG states that "We work with individuals and organisations who are seeking to create positive social value, those who hope to put back more than they take out." Lee explains what they look for in a client and what kind of clients they work with. He also mentions the Thinking Church podcast through which they help a wider pool, and their plans for launching a WeAreBPG podcast. Connect with Lee over at Twitter @LeeButton And https://www.linkedin.com/company/wearebpg/about/ and https://wearebpg.org/ Please let us know your thoughts: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org www.IAF-world.org And go mad on Twitter! @IAFenglandwales @Fac-stories @pilarorti #IAFPodcast | |||
| 28 Feb 2023 | FS52 Learning to let go, Shoop and the IAF conference 2023 | 00:22:45 | |
In today's episode, Helene talks to Catherine Wilks about her experience of running a session at last year's conference. They talk about The Shoopery, working on instinct and play, adapting the plan as you go along, the power of letting go and the plans for the April 2023 conference. Catherine was introduced to the IAF and the idea that she may actually be a facilitator by Cat Duncan Rees (IAF England and Wales Treasurer). She set up the Shoopery with Pip and Alfie. Having met at a Mental Health organisation and used mental health services themselves, they realised that there was the need for something to happen in between waiting for appointments. They developed lots of different ideas and workshops and realised they were good at helping people let go. Enter “the Shoop”. Everybody’s Shoop can be different – which Catherine describes as positive, upbeat, out of your comfort zone experiences. When people experience their shoop, they say that at the point of letting go they are comfortable with being themselves. People don’t just want to cope with life, but live. Through their sessions, Catherine and her colleagues help bring things out that may have been squashed for a while and this helps people know that they matter. At last year’s conference, everybody ended up talking about lemons. Catherine explains what the lemons were about, the “toy of the conference”, and she talks about wanting to make surprising things happen. Their session at the conference had 3 times more people attending than expected and so they ended up running it outside. The aim was to try out lots of different things and to get to the point when people start to bond and trust each other and learn to work as a group. Throughout the session, they had conversations about what letting go feels like, what gets in the way and what helps. The aim was to do something that you didn’t think you would do through little Shoop nudges. Catherine has learnt that actually she is a facilitator and that the conference is a really wonderful space to test things out. She felt everyone was really supportive and she now feels part of the community. She has volunteered to help organise this year’s conference which is at a Quaker House in Birmingham this April 2023. Tickets are already selling and lots of people are talking about it – the forms are also out now for submitting their session ideas. Catherine will be doing another session at this year’s conference about awakening instinct. She is excited about the conference themes around professional development and peer support and talks about how facilitation is such a diverse field that there are those who don’t call themselves facilitators, but are using facilitation in their work. Find out more about Catherine at https://www.theshoopery.com/ and on Twitter And connect with Helene via Twitter too. Find out more about the IAFEW conference in April and get tickets here: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/facilitate-2023-celebrating-and-sharing-the-diversity-of-facilitation-tickets-493851401837 And connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories or https://www.facilitationstories.com/ | |||
| 08 Nov 2022 | FS49 Two lenses on photography and facilitation | 00:44:10 | |
Today we have a treat for you: Nikki Wilson interviews two guests who use photography as part of their facilitation practice. Gianpietro Pucciariello and Chris Chinnock. Our first guest is Gianpietro Pucciariello, who returns to the show after appearing in episode 15. Gianpietro’s working life in the UK is divided into two: he’s a start up founder and a sole trader that covers many roles. He supports mission-drive individuals and communities to building social environmental impact communities and ecosystems. For this he uses creativity and innovation practices, coaching focus conversations and collective learning experiences. His last project is called From Lens to Self, through where he connects learning from different areas in his life. He’s developed for others a 3hours outdoor walking self-development journey, using photography for self-exploration. Participants can use their cameras or phones to take photographs to visualise their problems, using metaphors to connect to the problem, and help the problem surface. At the end of the workshop, individuals create a plan of action to take their learnings forward. In essence, photography here is a tool for self-discovery and research, in the present, within our present environment. This idea has its origins right back in Gianpietro’s childhood and adolescent. As an introverted child, he liked to observe in silence, and he used to spend a lot of time in the photography shop of his aunt and uncle. The passion for photography increased later on in life and it became a way of self-expression, especially during the time that his father’s neurological disease was worsening. Around 2013, Gianpietro joined a photo journalist course about telling stories through photography, and this turned out to be one of the best decisions of his life. Rediscovering photography led to him leaving a job he wasn’t happy in, and led him to become a facilitator and nurturer of others. Now he’s using photography as an organic processing for self-reflection and understanding the world around us. We need to be present in the moment, in a similar way to facilitation. He’s now looking at blending different practices, for example from the art of hosting, open space technology, embodiment and clean language. Gianpietro has been running these workshops and has had good feedback, so he knows that the process works for other people as well as himself. The workshop will run in the weekends as the weather is getting colder, but he’s looking to have longer events in the spring, a kind of “Lens to Self Plus”. He’s also looking into building a community around this practice, with follow up exercises; as well as a few interactive email-based course about creative leadership, mindfulness and problem solving, all starting using photography. There’s a lot to think about when you are in charge of a group, walking around a London area taking photographers, so Gianpietro has a list of things he does to make sure people are, and feel, safe under his care. The fact that the workshops take place in a group helps participants form their ideas through talking to others. To make sure Gianpietro keeps his instructions clear and precise, he makes sure when he communicates each task to the participants, he only uses five words to do so. You can find out more about From Lens to Self here: https://www.eventbrite.com/o/gianpietro-pucciariello-50327260933 ———— 27.06mins Nikki’s second guest on the show is Chris Chinnock, the Founder of the social enterprise Our Creative Connection, which uses photography as a tool for social change. Chris spent about five years exploring asset-based community development, travelling around the UK delivering training and attending events talking about the ways in which organisation and communities interact. His professional career has always had a thread of community development and creativity running through it. Alongside that, he’s also been interested in photography and has worked as a freelance photographer. During the pandemic he was thinking about, in essence, what he wanted to do with his life and re-evaluating the time he was spending outside vs inside the home. He’s now able to draw on a range of things that inspire him and which he thinks are important. The role of photography in community development, or a community context was one of the first thoughts around Our Creative Connection. “Photo voice” is a methodology applied mainly in academic research to get feedback in a visual time. Chris is now offering “photo voice” to explore how images and creating photographs can invite new conversations, without needing to start with words, or only use words. He’s also been taking portraits in people involved in an organisation celebrate its 10th anniversary, gathering their stories. He’s now opening the first dark room photography and printing workshop. What he’s taken from his previous roles as facilitator: the mindset of how you plan for workshops, when you’re creating the space for people to develop; he’s also been heavily influenced by Peter Block’s work around the impact they have on people depending on how they show up. Chris uses photography also to explain what he does, giving him a different starting point, a more open one. And of course, there’s not a right or wrong way to use photography in this way. Images are useful to start conversations. For example, Photo Voice is not a photography project, it’s more about “voice” than “photo”, it’s about finding your own story. Using an image to start a conversation also allows you to talk about subjects that are difficult to talk about. One of Chris’ future projects is going to involve embedding photography into the curriculum to help with learning outcomes. He’s also interested in how organisations can use images to communicate better and using art to shine a light on different subjects. You can find out more about Chris' work here: | |||
| 21 May 2024 | FS67 - Public Dialogue with Suzannah Lansdell | 00:26:32 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Suzannah Lansdell about Public Dialogue. Suzannah is a freelance facilitator who also advises organisations on how to do public and stakeholder dialogue, particularly in the science and technology sector for Sciencewise. They talk about
“this is this is not a Focus Group. It's not kind of top of mind views. It's digging behind that”
“one of the key things about Public Dialogue as you give people the time to kind of wrestle around the issue and think more deeply.”
A full transcript is below. Links Today’s guest: Suzannah Lansdell on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/suzannah-lansdell-ab23a78 Today’s subject Sciencewise: https://sciencewise.org.uk/ Involve Resources: https://involve.org.uk/resources/knowledge-base/resources Involve Methods: https://involve.org.uk/resources/methods
To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter: Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales
The Facilitation Stories Team: Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/
Transcript N.W Hello, and welcome to Facilitation Stories brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Nikki Wilson (NW) and today I'm going to be talking to Suzannah Lansdell (SL) about public dialogue. So welcome, Suzannah.
S.L Thanks, Nikki, lovely to be here.
N.W Okay, so to start off with, could you tell us a little bit more about you and what you do.
S.L So I'm a freelance facilitator, I've been doing that for about 15 years or so. I started, and so how I got into it just as a bit of context, as it sort of helps a bit with the public dialogue is, I started working for an environment charity back in the 90s. And I was doing a lot of work then with businesses, convincing them that there were commercial implications around environment sustainability issues. But one part of that the charity had was also about consensus building, about how do you get different organisations to approach environment sustainability issues, that at that time in the 90s, were very kind of adversarial in a more kind of consensus based approach. And absolutely core to that was facilitation, as a way to, to break through that more adversarial approach. So then I started working a lot on that and I kind of cut my teeth on some of the big issues of the day, things like nuclear waste, oil disposal, oil infrastructure disposal, biotechnology. So some really kind of big issues where people were on opposing sides and a facilitative approach helped people to kind of have more constructive conversations and find a way through. So that's kind of where I cut my teeth. And then moving on, what I'm much more doing now is that I advise and I support organisations on how they do public and stakeholder dialogue, and particularly around public dialogue work for an organisation called Science wise, that looks at public dialogue around science and technology. But I also do some kind of keeping my oar in on the practice in terms of facilitating citizens assemblies, and other kind of processes involved with the public. And then a little spattering of training in facilitation and a little bit of kind of charity away days, but most of my work at the moment is around the kind of public dialogue in science and technology.
N.W Okay, great. And that was a very neat segue into today's topic, which is about public dialogue. So for listeners that aren't familiar with this term, what do we mean by public dialogue?
S.L I suppose in its simplest terms, it's a process where you've got members of the public coming together with specialists and policymakers and other stakeholders to deliberate and have conversations about usually kind of complex or controversial topics. And they do that over several hours, so this is not a focus group, it's not kind of Top of Mind views. It's digging behind that. So you give people a lot of time to think about the issues and to have conversations with those specialists, but also fellow participants. So probably people are maybe deliberating over 10 hours or a couple of weekends. It can be online, it can be face to face, it can be a bit of a mix of both. The key purpose is to get those insights from the public to feed into kind of a decision whether that be a policy or whether that be a strategy. And some people might have heard of the term of mini Publics, so it sort of fits within that frame of mini Publics. And we could talk a bit more about who's the public in this. The key difference that I see with public dialogue is that unlike, for example, citizens juries or citizens assemblies, we don't usually ask people to come up with or vote on recommendations or come up with specific recommendations. It's much more that they're kind of invited to explore that issue and then there are insights that come from that, but it's not taking it to that kind of final this is what this group of people think and vote on.
N.W And so who would normally be the sort of Commissioner of the public dialogue who would bring those groups together?
S.L It would be a decision maker. So it'd be somebody that has some traction over that issue. It might be that they own the policy or that they own the strategy the public dialogue is feeding into. So that could be a government department, it could be a Research Council, it could be a regulator. So usually at that sort of level.
N.W And you touched on this a moment ago, but mini publics as it were, who normally would get involved in these, and how would they get involved?
S.L Yeah, so I think what's really important to know with public dialogue, or indeed any of those mini publics is that these are not public participants that choose to sign up, because they've seen it in their local paper or something, they are kind of randomly recruited to take part in this process. So what you're trying to do is to get a reflective group of the population to be part of these processes, and they're paid to attend. So you're getting over that slight bias that you might have, if you have a local meeting, for example, where just those people with the time and the inclination, and already with an interest in the topic turn up. So you're recruiting them kind of randomly, and that might be that they are approached on the street and it might be that they are approached through some kind of invitation. So usually, for example, on citizens assemblies, they're approached through a sortition approach, which is, you randomly receive an invitation through the post. Most public dialogues, it's recruited sort of on the street. And then you're looking for a kind of demographic, as I say, that kind of reflects the population, whether that be gender, whether that be where people are from, it might be things like whether the urban and rural split, it might be to do with the age profile, so that you've sort of got a little mini public in the room that you're having that conversation within.
N.W Have you got any examples of recent topics that you've seen covered in a public dialogue, just to bring that to life, I suppose.
S.L Well certainly. So the science wise work that I work on, it's, I mean, as you might expect, it's kind of around science and tech innovation, sorts of topics. So some of the recent ones have been things like embryo research, and where that goes in the future. Future flight technologies. So there's a whole new area of kind of innovation around future flight and what does the public think about where that might go? BioMed adaptation has been another one. Lots around kind of data, what do people think about data that is held on them or data that might be used? Where are the boundaries around that? And through things like genome editing in farmed animals, so a real range across that sort of science and tech space.
N.W So obviously, we've talked about the commissioners and the public involved in this, but this is facilitation stories. So what would you say the role of facilitators is in a public dialogue? And how, in your experience, is that different from other types of facilitation?
S.L So I suppose, obviously, there's the core basics of facilitation, that are the same, but I suppose, for me, the real the things that really stands out are that, absolutely, as with lots of other facilitation, your view on a topic has to really stand down you can't be seen to influence the process in one way or another. And when some of those topics they're very kind of emotive. Another thing is that because you've got a group of the public there, so I suppose those two things, you're likely to be part of a bigger team. So the number of participants involved in a public dialogue might be, it might be 30, but it may well be closer to sort of 100. So there's a team of facilitators, you've got a group on your table, say if you're just a table facilitator of seven or eight participants, and they're public participants who, it's not like if you were, say, working in with an organisation where you might have a bit of insight as to who's going to pop up on your table, you might have people there who are really not confident in speaking or, or who might have literacy challenges, or who might have English as a second language. So you've got to sort of adapt to that group of participants that you have, and work with them to build their confidence to express their views about the sorts of issues that are under consideration. And then I think this notion that you're part of a team of facilitators, you're all doing the sort of similar process on separate tables, and that is part of a bigger jigsaw piece. So you sort of got to manage how your group is responding to those questions and that plan that you've got, and knowing that you need to kind of get to an output for that specific section, because it fits together into the whole jigsaw piece of the whole process. So I think that that's an interesting dynamic. It's not like you're there and you're kind of controlling the whole space. Of course, I'm talking there about a table facilitator and then there's the kind of facilitator who's kind of orchestrating the whole piece as well. I mean it's fascinating working with the public, that's the bit that I just find so interesting is giving people the opportunity to have their voice heard in these issues and people love it. But as a facilitator kind of getting to the point where people are comfortable to do that is interesting.
N.W Yeah, I mean, I haven't mentioned as we've been talking, but I have facilitated in these environments. And I think one of the things that I always find so fascinating is that you can have a whole load of different groups essentially following the same framework and process and they will come out with completely different things, or they will respond to the materials in completely different ways. And you've got such a close comparison, because they're all in the room together with half an hour, or whatever it is, and I just find that fascinating, or I've done some where I've done the same process two nights in a row with different groups. And literally, it's nothing to do with how I facilitated it because I was the same person. But yeah, so interesting to see how different groups respond to the material.
S.L And sorry, I was just going to say. And also giving people the opportunity, because of course, you've got a mini public there. They, the participants themselves are meeting people that are from all sorts of different walks of life, and seeing how they reflect also on other people's contribution and how that adjusts their views. And again, that, for me, is one of the key things about public dialogue, as you give people the time to kind of wrestle around the issue and think more deeply.
N.W Yeah, absolutely. And again, I mean, we've touched on this a little bit, but obviously, this can often be about quite complex subject matter, you've given some examples at the beginning, and the participants will have varying degrees of prior knowledge. So obviously, giving them some information is one of the key things in this, what have you seen works particularly well, in how you present that information to people and perhaps not so well?
S.L So yeah, absolutely, you kind of have to give people enough information that they can deliberate on it, but not so much and that for me is the real critical point is that it's boiling it down into what is the appropriate level of detail, participants don't need to have a PhD in the topic. And they very quickly, participants really quickly kind of get to grips with what the topic is. So for me, the really crucial things is that you have to have specialists from a diversity of perspectives. So that participants can kind of reach into the corners of the issues and what the different kind of takes are on that. And I know most of the time it is done through some form of kind of presentation. But it's really important to pick your specialists well, that they can talk in an accessible way or brief them well to do that, and make sure that you know what it is that they're saying, that you get to look at their slides beforehand and make sure that it is accessible. It's not kind of reams and reams of really detailed stuff. But other ways in which the worst sorts of information imparting are where you have a really long, dense presentation. So that's designed out. You tend to give it in small bite sized, probably no more than 10 minute type of talks, you layer up the sort of information that you're giving to people so that they've got these sort of bite sized chunks, and they're hearing from different perspectives. But as well as hearing from different perspectives, you sometimes in public dialogues, you can also interview people before the dialogue and put that into provocation, kind of cards or animations or sort of pictorial scenarios so that people can access the information in different sorts of ways. What's really crucial is that they hear from different perspectives, they get a chance to sort of question and interrogate that, and it's not in a kind of overly complex way. So that's the real skill of who's designing the whole process, is making sure that we're hearing the right sort of information enough for participants to get to grips with it, but not so much that they're just listening to reams and reams of presentations, because that's not the point. The point is not to kind of come out with an educated public. The point is, is that we want to hear what participants kind of deliberations and insights on having known enough about the topic.
N.W yeah, and I suppose almost that instinctive reaction or whatever it is that they have picked out from a presentation that's most important for them is a valuable insight in the first place is that, actually what is it that they're taking away from all of the information they've been given?
S.L Yep. What's really nice is if you have the opportunity and the processes, which because they're run over a number of sessions you can often do this, is to ask participants also what might be missing or what they might have to revisit. And, again, if you've got a specialist sort of in the room, whether that's a virtual or real room, using them as a kind of resource to be able to pull on as well is really important.
N.W Yeah, I think that we perhaps haven't made that clear that quite often those experts will give a presentation but then they are still available to chip in, to answer questions, to clarify bits. So that's really interesting, too. Yeah. And again, so while it's not unique to public dialogue, I think something that a lot of the processes involve is a really kind of structured evaluation. So could you tell us a little bit more about that? And how it sort of fits in the overall process?
S.L Yeah, yeah and certainly for science wise public dialogue. So just actually, to really quickly scale back. So science wise supports government departments, research councils to do public dialogue and kind of mentor supports those organisations, but also provides some co-funding. So there's always an independent evaluation that sits alongside that public dialogue. And that both I think, quite uniquely, for this evaluation, it sits at the beginning, and it can give sort of formative input throughout the process as it's being designed. But also it produces a kind of summative evaluation at the end. So what is it that participants have felt? What is it that specialists have felt? So gathering all of that data like you might do, usually in a kind of evaluation. So it's more than just observing the sessions, doing a participant survey and reporting on that. And the other thing that I think is kind of really important is, again, certainly for science wise dialogues is that there's a sort of interim report when the dialogue report comes out. But then we go back or the evaluator goes back six months later, and says, right, what was the impact of this public dialogue? And that, to me, is really, really crucial so that you know where has it influenced? You said at the beginning, that this was going to be something that inputted into this policy, or that inputted into this strategy. Six months on what has happened? Have those impacts happened? Have other things happened that have been as a result of that public dialogue process?
N.W And I suppose with that in mind, have you got any examples of where you've seen really specific big changes that have come out of those that you can sort of share? So obviously, a lot of them are still in progress.
S.L Yeah, sure. Well, I suppose the one that quite often is, is quoted and this is going back a little way. I mean if you look at the science wise website, there's always the evaluation reports are up there as well. And they, certainly the more recent ones, kind of capture those impacts. So it might be that it's led to a whole raft of new social science research. But one of the ones particularly that's quoted is around something called mitochondrial transfer, and this was quite a controversial area of research. A public dialogue was held which helped inform. Then the recommendations of what was the human fertilisation embryology authority, the HFEA , who regulates all of that, and that then fed into changing the law on what was allowed in terms of this mitochondrial transfer. Whilst they would have done other stakeholder work, they would have listened to what experts thought about this, actually hearing about what the public thought, whether this was the right way to go, what were the sorts of limits? What were the red lines? What sort of conditions should be in place? Formed a really kind of core plank of then what that recommendation and ultimately, the kind of law change signifies. So it can have some big impacts and what I see a lot with public dialogue, and we'll kind of think about this into the future is, lots of government agencies, or any key decision making authority is really familiar with thinking about how they involve their kind of traditional stakeholders. But thinking about how they really hear from what the public thinks is a more tricky area for them to grapple with. So public dialogue provides one route in which they can really understand, what do the public think about this having had a bit more time to think about it. What drives their concerns or their hopes or their aspirations around this particular topic? And that, for me, is always the missing pieces, like, how are we hearing the public voice in this new development? Because it's not a given that that will always happen.
N.W And so, I suppose building on that then, are there particular trends or developments that you're seeing happening currently or on the horizon for public dialogue? Where do you think it could go?
S.L So I mean, I hope, and I think that there will be a move towards this. Rather than this being something that is a sort of almost optional add on, or specifically for some topics that are quite high profile, or kind of think that they might be controversial, but actually, it becomes a much more embedded part of both policy and strategy. So that rather than ‘Oh, crikey, we need to think about doing a public dialogue’, but it's something that's just automatically built into the policy strategy development process for those topics. So it's not saying that it should be used in every circumstance, but that it's much more kind of part of the normal suite of tools that policy makers will be thinking about, that there's that check. Oh, hang on a minute, how are we thinking about public voice? Do we need to do a public dialogue? Do we need to do some other kinds of, you know , how are we going to get that public insight into the development of our policies? Doing public dialogue is about making better decisions by getting public insight into that process. I think the other thing that I would just say is that I think increasingly, whilst the approach is about making better decisions, better policies, I think it will become more clearly linked with sort of a democratic process that ultimately, certainly, if we're talking about science and tech, whether we're talking about climate change with, for example, citizens assemblies, on climate change,that these are things that are affecting people, participant people day to day. If there's a new science or tech development, it's helping us and a lot of that research is funded by the public. So where's the sort of right, almost for the public to have a more considered, say, in the development of those areas?
N.W And I think what you say there is interesting as well, because obviously a lot of this is technical information. But in the main, there are ways that people find it does relate to their day to day life in some way. And I think that's another quite important tool potentially, is making it feel like something that people have a grounding in their daily life,even if they don't know all of the technical details, isn't it? So they can deliberate with their own perspective on that?.
S.L Absolutely, I mean, those examples I gave before, they're about the food that we eat, or about the impact of climate on our infrastructure. They're about what we think is right, or how far science should go. If we're looking at AI, or we're looking at these exciting, but also fast developments that are happening in science and tech, there has to be, and this is why I talk about quite often with the people thinking about commissioning, it's got to align with social values. If it's really out of step with that, I think we saw that a lot with GM in the early 2000s, then people start getting really concerned about it. So what's right? What's wrong? Or how should it go? Where are the sorts of red lines? What are the sorts of conditions under which this technology should develop? could develop? shouldn't develop? Understanding that for a policymaker, or for strategies is kind of gold dust really.
N.W Excellent, well, I mean, it's all so fascinating, we could probably talk all day about it, but
S.L Just scratched the surface .
N.W Exactly. And with that in mind, if listeners want to find out more about public dialogue, what would you say the best places to look?
S.L So I would say there's two. Obviously, I've talked quite a lot about science wise, and sciencewise.org.uk is the website,there's a lot there about public dialogue, but also lots of reports from previous public dialogues. And then the other place that I always kind of point people towards is the involve website. So if you just Google involve, and particularly, I think it's involve.org.uk .Particularly their methods and Resource Bank section. So the methods obviously covers lots of methods, but their resource section there is super useful and that will also touch on things which we haven't delved into as much here, sort of citizens assemblies, citizens juries and other sorts of, kind of public participation processes.
N.W Right. And we can put those links in the show notes as well. And, and if listeners would like to find out more specifically about your work or get in touch with you, what would you suggest?
S.L Look me up on LinkedIn as a start. Okay, that's probably the easiest, easiest place really.
N.W Well, we'll put that in the show notes too. So thank you so much, Suzannah, for your time and your contribution today. It's been really interesting to chat to you.
S.L Thank you, Nikki.
N.W Thank you again. Have a lovely day. Bye.
Outro
So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast, IAF England and Wales.
If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved all of the links on our website, facilitationstories.com. And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use?
We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about send us an email at podcast@IAF-EnglandWales.org
We hope you'll join us again soon for more Facilitation Stories. Until then, thank you for listening
| |||
| 17 Aug 2020 | FS23 Facilitating Meetings for Introverts | 00:34:39 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Jon Baker about introverts. They start off by discussing Jon’s passion for scuba diving! Jon talks about his work with leaders in organisations, who want to get more from their team, and about his survey where he discovered that about 1/3 of people say that they are not fully productive in business and that most of these are introverts. He describes the different ways that he works with people in businesses to help introverts. Helene asks Jon about statistics for introverts and extroverts and about what distinguishes people who identify as introverts. Jon talks about “people energy” and some of the neuroscience behind it which may mean that introverts get more exhausted by people energy than extroverts. He also talks about how introverts process internally and extroverts externally. From these two main features people often think things about introverts, for example that introverts are quiet. Helene asks what kinds of things facilitators need to look out for to include the introverts in the room: Being aware, holding back some of the talkative people, encouraging quieter people to speak, speaking to introverts by name, giving introverts the chance to speak, making sure contributions from introverts are valued. They discuss the importance of silent reflection and writing in brainstorming. Jon talks about the different types of introverts and extroverts, how to spot the introvert, and being careful not to label people. Helene asks Jon what the benefits of being an introvert are. He talks about introverts bringing a different perspective on thinking which helps in avoiding groupthink and the reason for having a group being the richness of thinking. Helene asks Jon about ice breakers. Jon talks about the importance of considering how happy introverts feel as part of a team and how giving introverts a role is useful, as is knowing the value or reason behind any kind of engagement activity. Knowing the benefits and structure of the session is important. Jon shares an example of an ice breaker that didn’t go down so well! Helene asks Jon about comfort zones and how it is best to “push” people outside their comfort zones or “stretch” comfort zones. The discussion then turns to the virtual world and Helene asks Jon about how introverts are coping with lockdown and doing more on line. Jon dispels a few myths about introverts liking to be alone and enjoying online meetings and suggests that actually introverts prefer meetings that have structure which is often more needed and more present in online meetings. However it is often harder for introverts to get their point across online. Get in touch through Twitter with Jon @divingjon and check out his website introvertinbusiness.co.uk Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Or just tell us you're listening! Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast | |||
| 18 Feb 2025 | FS 75 Race Ahead for Facilitators with Bianca Jones, Cat Duncan-Rees and Paul Brand | 00:43:51 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Bianca Jones - Award Winning Mental Health & Anti-Racism Training Provider, MHFA England Associate and Founder & Managing Director of EDP Training, Paul Brand- Facilitator and Management Consultant, Director at Risk Solutions and IAF England and Wales board member and Cat Duncan-Rees- Facilitator and founder of Curators of Change and also an IAF England and Wales board member. She starts by asking Bianca to talk a bit about the work she does and what led her to develop EDP and the Race Ahead training She asks Cat and Paul about what led the IAF England and Wales Leadership Team to ask Bianca to deliver this training course online in October and about their key takeaways. Cat and Paul talk about the RA4F special thread at the IAF England and Wales conference Facilitate 2025 this year and where the idea came from? Bianca shares some examples of specific impact or changes she's seen in a facilitator’s approach after attending Race Ahead Bianca gives some more details her session at the conference and the training course she is offering the day before. All the guests then talk about why a focus around racial equality at the conference is important and why active race awareness matters in facilitation and what anti-racism might look like for facilitators. The guests also talk about their hopes for longer term initiatives in teh facilitation communicty around anti-racism. To book onto the RA4F course on 24th April 2025: To book onto the Facilitate 2025 conference
To contact Bianca - bianca@edptraining.co.uk To contact Cat - cat@curatorsofchange.com To contact Paul - paul.brand@risksol.co.uk To contact Helee: Helene@jewellfacilitation.com
To contact the conference team: conference@iaf-englandwales.org
| |||
| 17 Nov 2020 | FS26 We Review the IAFEW Annual Conference - Online | 01:01:30 | |
In this episode Pilar talks to the rest of the podcast team (Vic Hopkins based on the Cambridge Suffolk border, Nikki Wilson in Danbury in Essex, Helene Jewell in Bristol and Cat based in the North West) as they celebrate and reflect on the IAF England and Wales on line facilitation conference. We also hear from Penny Walker, Chris Massey, Jamie Colston and Fiona McBride – it’s a great episode! The team start off with a big cheer for Susannah Raffe who lead the conference organising team. Then Helene talks a bit about the behind the scenes organising and how it all worked including using Basecamp for the team to communicate when planning, having a point person each day and using the Meetup platform to schedule the sessions. Cat commented on the variety in the week but also that she could identify a thread about what it means to be a facilitator going through the whole week. Vic noted that it felt like a “living breathing programme” as influences were taken from one session to the next. Nikki attended as a participant and particularly enjoyed the sense of community throughout the event and the different energy of both deep and more light hearted conversations. She also remarks on the value of what she learnt not just being for here and now, but for the future. Helene commented on how the fact it was virtual meant that the community was able to expand beyond England and Wales and there were people from many different countries. The Sessions Nikki talks more about some particular sessions; Vic’s Murder by Zoom, Helene’s accessibility session, a session on participation and inclusion and one on the Magic of Metaphor and Fiona Mcbride’s session about pausing. Fiona (freelance learning consultant and facilitator) shares some thoughts on how she has developed as a facilitator and discovered that her best facilitation is when she is “out of the way”. She explains how she is also a yoga teacher and see a crossover with facilitation and yoga and how she thinks pausing, silence and slowing down can be brought into other parts of life. She describes her thoughts in why she wanted to do a session at the conference and the interesting conversations that came out of it. See more here from Fiona: https://twitter.com/fionamcbride/status/1318600808703852544?s=09 Cat talks a bit more about the session she hosted with John Varney about upping the facilitation game in a time of crisis and other sessions that she felt drawn to. For example the I can't breathe session, Cari Hewer’s session when is a facilitator, not a facilitator and how the issue of neutrality came up in lots of sessions. Helene talked about some of the sessions that stuck out for her including Jamie Colston’s open space session, Fiona’s pausing session, Gwen Wilkie’s physical place to virtual space session and Penny’s session which she described in a bit more detail. She commented on how she was able to juggle sessions in a busy work week and how she liked the extra coffee and evening sessions too. Both Vic and Pilar talked about choosing not to go to some sessions to make sure they had space in their weeks. A bit about the Open Space session Pilar introduces a bit of audio from Chris Massey about joining the open space session and the calm way that it started. Helene then talks more in detail about the open space session and how it actually worked as an online session and how she was able to pop in and out of different rooms and join in different conversations.. Nikki also went to the session but had a slightly different experience, choosing to stay in one room. Vic talked about “steeling with pride” an idea from the open space session to use in a session later in in the week. Helene was able to talk to Jamie in the evening he hosted his open space session which is included next as an audio clip. Jamie shares his key take aways and advice for anyone wanting to do open space themselves. Being more pirate and making meetings accessible Cat shares her reflections on her be more pirate session with the rest of the podcast team which was about drawing inspiration from Golden Age pirates to bring about change. She describes the links in the conversations between her session on upping the facilitation game at the start of the week and this session at the end of the week and the interesting progression of events during the week. She also talks about the different energy need to run a session with kids in the background! She felt that there were lots of opportunities to get to know people throughout the week and a lot to hold people’s attention as well as the positives from connecting on Zoom. Pilar adds here experiences of working with teams adopting remote working and how some of this can be useful in a co-located space. Nikki and Cat add their thoughts on facilitating online. Helene then talks about her session – how can we make our online sessions more accessible? And about where the idea came from and what came up in the conversations during the session. She also says how one of the main things was to just start the conversation off and see where it went. Keeping it social Vic, Pilar and Nikki talk more about the differences in the types of sessions; how they were not all “tell”, some were about exploring and that there was a “collaborative ethos” and learning by participating. Vic tells the team more about her Murder Mystery session and how it started from a friend’s birthday party. She also describes her ability to work things out when she doesn’t initially know how! As the group start wrapping Pilar talks about Nicola Morris’ session about using the chat box in Zoom and Pinar Akkar’s wine tasting, Helene recalls a learning moment about standing up and everyone shares their final reflections. These include – how well organised it was, how well it worked online, being able to pick and choose things to go to, the generosity and community spirit.
@IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast @fac_stories (twitter account for this show) Pilar Orti @pilarorti Helene Jewell @helenejewell Cat Duncan Rees @CatDRees Vic Hopkins @UnanimityCC Nikki Wilson @NiksClicks Fiona McBride @fionamcbride Other links Penny Walker - https://www.penny-walker.co.uk/ Chris Massey https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjmassey/ Jamie Colston -www.iamweare.co.uk Fiona McBride https://fionamcbride.com/ | |||
| 11 Dec 2023 | FS62 - Chapter Chat with Tamara Zivadinovic | 00:19:47 | |
Today we’re introducing a new quarterly feature “Chapter Chat”. As many listeners know, the England and Wales chapter is just one of the many IAF volunteer-led chapters globally, all working within 6 regions across 65 countries. While all chapters are united under the IAF vision and operate in accordance to the IAF Code of Ethics they are all run in a slightly different way, and reflect the context they’re working within. So alongside our episodes capturing individual facilitators’ stories, each quarter we’re going to chat to people leading other chapters, about how they see the status of facilitation where they are, and the history, priorities, current projects and aspirations for their chapter. To kick us off, we have a special episode reflecting on a year of facilitation in the EME region, where Helene and Nikki talk to Tamara Zivadinovic Regional Director of the Europe and Middle East Region of the IAF. Tamara talks about her own facilitation practise, how she got involved in IAF and her her journey to becoming Regional Director. She explains to Helene and Nikki what are your main responsibilities are as regional Director and what has been happening in the Region over the last year. She talks about celebrating the many IAF volunteers and about her proudest moments as Regional Director. Tamara shares what is coming up in 2024, her hopes for the region and finishes up with an ask for the members of the region. You can contact Tamara on: rep.europe@iaf-world.org or find her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamara-zivadinovic-4975384/ | |||
| 11 Jan 2024 | FS63 Jamie Colston - Facilitating Systemic Constellations | 00:33:57 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Jamie Colston - father, facilitator, poet and systemic constellations practitioner about his work using Systemic Constellations, both Family Constellations and in organisations. He talks about how he got into the work in the first place, the training he has done and the practise he does and some of what he has coming up next. He shares some examples of how he uses it and in terms of facilitation he suggests it is most akin to Open Space Technology. You can find Jamie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiecolston/ Jamie Colston https://www.jamiecolston.com/ Centre for Systemic Constellations - https://www.thecsc.net/ The Whole Partnership - https://www.wholepartnership.com/
| |||
| 20 Jul 2020 | FS22 Voices from the Meetups | 00:12:07 | |
Today's episode is a short one, but with plenty of voices, from the June Virtual Coffee Meetup. podcast@iaf-englandwales.org This episode contains some reflections and even some tips from: Bímpe Odú Bimpe's channel: The Bee-Hive https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzvn_YxPVJg4z3poBTC_v3 John Ogier https://twitter.com/johnogier Martin Gilbraith https://twitter.com/martingilbraith Clare Pearce https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairealisonpearce/ Jonathan Bannister https://twitter.com/jlbLDN and your host for today, https://twitter.com/PilarOrti Find out more about us: Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast | |||
| 03 Feb 2020 | FS09 First Year as Freelance Facilitator with Hilary Topp | 00:27:03 | |
In this episode, Helene talks to Hilary Topp about one of her favourite facilitation methods, why (and how) she got into facilitation and her involvement with Citizens Assemblies. Hilary Topp is a facilitator and coach and host of the IAF meet ups in Midlands and the East of England and IAF England and Wales board member. She tells us how she first got into facilitation and that although she hasn’t yet done a whole year as a freelancer how much she is enjoying it. She uses a variety of facilitation methodologies but in particular likes using ORID from the ICA Technologies of Participation approach, and tells us a bit about how she puts in into practise. Although she enjoys all kinds of facilitation her favourite pieces of work are strategy reviews and she talks us through some of the ways that she does these. Hilary tells us a bit about citizens assemblies and a related participatory democracy process (a People’s Panel) she was involved in last year, and a bit about the role of the facilitator in these. Both Hilary and Helene attended a practitioners day in London that they both attended and discuss some of what they learnt. You can find out more about it here https://www.involve.org.uk/resources Hilary gives us some examples of pieces of work that she’s really enjoyed and tells us a bit about what she has coming up next. Hilary hosts the Birmingham coffee meet ups which happen the first Friday of every month, and afternoon learning and networking meet ups three times a year. You can get in touch with Hilary and find out more about her here: On twitter: Hilary: @HTFacilitation Helene: @helenejewell Pilar: @pilarorti Other links: ICA UK: Liberating Structures: http://www.liberatingstructures.com/ Involve UK The Democracy Society West Midlands and East of England Meet ups https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Midlands-East-of-England-facilitators-friends/
ICA strategic planning course https://www.ica-uk.org.uk/course/participatory-strategic-planning-17th-18th-march-2020-london/ Please let us know your thoughts: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org And go mad on Twitter! @IAFenglandwales @Fac-stories @Helenejewell @pilarorti #IAFPodcast #IAFmeetup | |||
| 13 Apr 2020 | FS15 Being Mentored as a Facilitator | 00:29:12 | |
In today's episode, Helene talks to Celeste Brito and Camilla Gordon about their experiences of being mentees as part of the IAF Global Mentorship Programme. In the introduction, Pilar mentions the next IAF Learning Online Meetup - you can register here: https://www.meetup.com/IAF-facilitators-and-friends/events/268954892/ You can find the links to all the IAF England Wales Meetup Groups here: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales To start with, we hear from Gianpietro Pucciariello | |||
| 25 May 2020 | FS18 Working in Different Languages | 00:54:39 | |
Sharing stories about working with different languages in the room. Helene Jewell, podcast co-host and freelance facilitator based in Bristol, Martin Gilbraith (CPF facilitator and trainer and consultant based in London – who also took part in Episode 7 on facilitation values), Simon Wilson has been running facilitation company for 20 years CPF working internationally and in the UK, based in the Peak District. The podcast starts with some examples of working with people who speak different languages. Simon shares a story about working with a UN agency 5 years ago doing a mix of facilitation and training over 20 sessions. Virtual sessions using Webex platform in English, French and Spanish and Simon co-facilitated all of these. He talks about his different levels of competence in these languages and the different dynamics and energy. He used Google Translate to help him and when he was speaking in English which was often not the native language for many participants he had to keep his language simple and avoid too many metaphors. Helene talks about her time in Nepal as a VSO volunteer Speech and Language Therapist where she delivered lots of different training sessions. She explains that although she had learnt Nepali she initially lacked the confidence to use it initially and how she got through that. And the difficulties of there being “side talk” in another language in the room (Newari). Martin talks about a Middle East regional gathering for a global NGO – 60 people over 3 days. Martin began his career as an international volunteer for ICA and learnt Arabic in Egypt so still enjoys joining in conversations when he can. He explains why even though he could speak Arabic he had to hold his tongue so as not to exclude the non- Arabic speakers. If there are any questions please ask at: e-mail: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org twitter: @IAFEnglandWales Working with interpreters Simon talks about how developing a relationship with interpreters is key a key part of facilitating and how he has a relatively relaxed attitude to losing nuances in translation. He describes how getting interpreters involved in the processes can be helpful and shares an example of a large event he facilitated in Istanbul with 7 different languages that involved interpreters and how it felt a but chaotic but ended up being very collaborative. Martin talks about whether the interpretation is needed for the facilitator or the participants. He describes a conference in Switzerland which had several different languages that often had interpreters in booths and mediated by technology. The parts that he facilitated were much more participatory and encouraged people to work together at tables, even if they didn’t understand each other’s languages. He notes how this allows communication and connection at a human level even without any language in common. Helene talks about her experience of being an interpreter with the ICRC for delegates during the conflict in Nepal. She talks about translating every single work (or not) and how as an interpreter it enabled her to concentrate on the spoken words and not get too emotional about the content. She also observed how much the delegates would begin to pick up for themselves even when they didn’t understand the language. Martin comments that in training facilitation, working with interpreters who don’t understand facilitation is problematic and conversely working with interpreters who are facilitators can sometimes give their own explanations which can also be problematic. Martin gibes a shout out to Mikael Rossus from Personal Image in Moscow is a facilitator and know the ICA’s Top really well and is really good at translating what is said and not giving his own interpretation. Simon comments on interpretation in virtual and how he has had experienced where it often looks like the participants aren’t there as they are sat to the side of the interpreter who is visible on the screen. He also talks about text translation closed caption text in Googlish which is “almost communication”. Martin talks about having ideas written in both languages and how you need to be careful in mistranslations when they are written down that they mean the same thing. Helene talks about working in Devanagari script and how writing and training and facilitating was not something she could efficiently do, so she involved participants to help her. Simon talks about co-facilitation and working with Jean from Formapart mainly in French and discovering new words in another language that might not be present in your own language. He has also brough the warmth he discovered from Anna in Peru to his English sessions – he has never net her but has developed a connection nonetheless. Martin recalls working in Russia and how certain phrases don’t mean what you want them to mean if you are not careful – “I want to break you into small groups” can sound painful! Simon talks about having good French but not having the facilitation words so bringing your language up to date is important. Pilar herself has learnt all her professional language in English but has been working recently in Spanish (her native language) but doesn’t necessarily have the words. Helene and Martin both gave examples of when words do not exist in different languages and how you might Pilar returns to Helene’s comments about working in groups where two languages were spoken and she only understood one (Nepali and Newari) and how she didn’t ever really resolve the difficulties they presented but somehow got around them. Martin talks about being quite relaxed about not understanding side conversations and that if he misses something he encourages participants to draw his attention to it. And the fact that a lot can be understood without being able to speak the language. He shares an example of working with ICA in Bosnia and how although he didn’t know the language he was able to work out what was going on as he was familiar with the materials and approaches. Simon recalls some early IAF conferences running facilitated development sessions with different language groups. and that checking with the group that everything is okay is often enough. But when the objective is developing a common understanding then different language groups can be a barrier and how it’s harder to push across language barriers but this is the role of the facilitator. Martin reminds us that the role of the facilitator anyway is to know when to step in and push people across their comfort zone and when is better to help people stay in their comfort zone. Helene comments on how even when people don’t share a common language they will usually find a way. Martin talks about helping a group of different language speakers to come up with a mission statement in English but that for it to make sense in different language (25/30 different languages in this case) they closed the session with coming up with versions in their own languages. What have these experiences taught us? Helene talks about how when everyone has to work hard to understand or help others understand a language there can be a feeling of being all in it together. And about confidence and getting on with it. Simon talks about how co-facilitation being a joy and how it reinforces and challenges his practise and that language barriers can usually be transcended. This is harder in the virtual world. Martin talks about the fact that there are joys and struggles with working in different languages, but that language and culture are just two different dimensions of diversity. As a facilitator our job is to accommodate diversity as best as we can all the time. You can get in touch with us on twitter@ Simon Wilson @wilsonsherriff Martin Gilbraith @martingilbraith Helene Jewell @Helenejewell Pilar Orti @pilrorti @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast
| |||
| 13 Apr 2021 | FS31 Clean Language & Metaphor | 00:37:08 | |
FS31 Clean Language and Metaphor In today’s episode, host Nikki Wilson takes a deep dive into clean language and metaphor, and talks to three guests about their uses of them in their facilitation practice. First Nikki talks to Judy Rees about how she discovered clean language and metaphor and how they feature in her work today. Judy started exploring the use of metaphor as a child, when her father was studying its use in education. Following reading the book “Metaphors We Live By” by George Lakoff and Mark Johnson as a teenager she then talks of her further exploration on metaphor and clean language during her career as a journalist. Judy talks of her experience of using clean language as a key part of her engagement with freelance facilitation clients. Using a combination of clean language and metaphor allows her clients to express their needs for their requirements, which in turn allows Judy to understand whether she is the right person for them. She also talks about how she uses clean principles in her training of facilitators to use clean language with groups and teams. Judy also shares examples of how clean language can help to tease out the distinctions between things that seem quite similar on the surface, but have subtle distinctions, and how this is valuable in avoiding misunderstanding that can be very, very costly. For facilitators looking to extend their knowledge of clean language for use with groups, Judy recommends reading “From Contempt to Curiosity” by Caitlin Walker. Those looking for more 1-2-1 applications can read “Clean Language: Revealing Metaphors and Opening Minds” by Wendy Sullivan and Judy Rees. Judy ends by speaking about she is current exploring how to not just get people excited by clean language and metaphor, but how to get those people to effectively transmit that enthusiasm, joy and excitement to other people as well. You can get in touch with Judy here: Twitter: @JudyRees Website: www.reesmccann.com Website: www.learncleanlanguage.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/XraylisteningJR/featured Blog: https://reesmccann.com/2016/05/03/metaphor-get-group-started/
Nikki gives a quick reminder of the IAF England & Wales regular meetups which in April 2021 are still happening online. You can find out more on the website: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales Nikki then goes on to speak to Robert Taylor and Kevin Watson who ran “The Magic of Metaphor” session at the IAF England & Wales conference in October 2020. When asked about where the magic comes from when they use metaphor, Kevin describes how the magic in their sessions is all about the relationship that the participant has with the metaphor, and how it helps people to accelerate their ability to see something they have not seen before. Also magical is people’s imagination and creativity and how that never ceases to amaze him. Kevin and Rob talk about their experiences of using metaphor in both facilitation and coaching sessions. They talk about the use of physical objects in sessions to explore metaphor, and how it is important that it's something that is outside of themselves and seemingly unrelated to the topic on their minds. They go on to explain that it is important to have elements which the participant can touch and interact with as part of the exercise to get a different perspective. They talk about the importance of the facilitator in letting go of the worries about how people will react to using metaphor in a session. The important thing is that you as the facilitator work with what people present to you, as that will be the right thing for them at that time. Both Kevin & Rob go on to talk about the need to trust the participant, that they will come up with something that you can work with, and that they will have the things they need to figure it out. Rob & Kevin end by talking about how they will continue to explore metaphor further in the future, including looking at how you can use metaphor online to give people experiences that they can learn from. Get in touch with Robert robert@youdevelop.co.uk Get in touch with Kevin: https://myown-coach.co.uk Or via the Facilitators Café: https://www.facebook.com/groups/facilitatorcafe
Get in touch: Twitter: @fac_stories and @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast and today’s host @NiksClicks E-mail: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Find out more about us over at the https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales Join us at the IAF Global Slack
| |||
| 16 Apr 2024 | FS 66 Facilitate 2024: Growing Together with Paul Brand | 00:24:47 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Paul Brand, Director of Risk Solutions and part of the IAF England and Wales Leadership Team, Board member and conference team member. They talk about
A full transcript is below. Links Today’s guest was Dr Paul Brand https://www.linkedin.com/in/drpaulbrand/ Today’s subject The Facilitate 2024 Conference https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/facilitate2024-growingtogether-tickets-733547288687?aff=oddtdtcreator To find out more about the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript Hello and welcome to facilitation stories brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Helene Jewell and today I'm talking to Paul Brand,a management consultant whose work focuses on public policy. He often works on long term engagements across entire sectors for multi organisation communities, and uses facilitation extensively in his work. He's also an IAF England Wales board member, certified professional facilitator and a member of the conference planning team. Welcome, Paul. Good morning. It is morning. It is morning. Good. It is morning. It is morning. So my first question is just to ask you, really to tell us a little bit more about you as a facilitator and your involvement in the IAF. So I came into facilitation like a lot of people, not quite realizing I was doing it, doing a lot of public policy consulting things, and needing somebody who would lead groups of people through discussions. And then that became a better understanding of what facilitation as a profession was all about. And that grew and grew over the years. I did a long piece of work in the about 2011 2012, working with a very senior IAF board member. We did a lot of events together, and during that time I understood what the IAF was about and realized I needed to actually make my facilitation skills part of my professional development formally. So I did the IAF certified professional facilitator thing in 2012, which was quite a developmental experience in itself, and I keep that up to this day. And then over the last four or five years, I've become more and more involved in the workings of IAF, in England and Wales particularly, and have also had the privilege of attending a couple of the european conferences in Paris and Milan, finding out how our colleagues across the channel do it. So it's been an arc of development. Yeah, an arc of development slowly, slowly coming further and further in. And obviously we're here today to talk about the about conference. So let's start off with the kind of, the basic stuff. So IAF England and Wales conference in April, I guess. What do we need to know? The dates, where it is, what is it all about? So it is Friday and Saturday, the 26th and 27 April. And for quite a few years now, we've done this Friday Saturday mix seems to balance that. Some of the people, depending on their work and professional lives, some of them can, you know, share those two days, rather than it being two days out mid week or two days at a weekend. It is in Birmingham it is at a venue called the Priory rooms, which is quite close to the middle of Birmingham. It's very easy to get to, and it's two full days, the Friday and the Saturday. It is quite broadly based. We had about 70 people last year. As of yesterday, we've got 100 people coming this year, and we're going to have to cap it at 120 for venue reasons, which is a really nice, really nice set of challenges to have. That is. That is. So there are a few more tickets. We are recording this a little bit before the conference, obviously, but there are, at the moment, a few tickets left. It's about 20 whole two day tickets left. We have to stop it at 120 because just moving that many people around the venue, because of the safe of it, becomes a limit on that. You can book single day tickets. So even after full tickets closed, there might be some one day tickets left. There's about ten or 15 people coming on one day or the other, but most people are there for the two days. Fantastic. And so obviously, a lot of work goes into organizing the conference. I know that we worked quite closely together doing the hybrid conference of years ago. Tell us a little bit about the organizing team. Who's on it? What do they do? How have you kind of made things work from behind the scenes? So the conference team is all volunteers. Obviously, everything in this group is. It is so two thirds people who are also on the England and Wales leadership group. So they have wider interest in the if group and some people who just do the conference. The core of it, of course, is the people who put the program together, which is a team of three or four people. And so this year, with this sort of numbers, we're running four parallel tracks during most of those two days. And there are four very, very broad sort of types of session. They're all interactive sessions. There's no big lectures at this conference, but there's a thread which is learning facilitation tools, techniques, skills, that kind of thing. There's a thread which are sessions which are about growing and personal development and reflection. There's a thread which is about work and business, professional development, everything from how to run a business, because quite a lot of people are freelancers in this thing, as opposed to working in house. And what the differences are there, even down to, you know, how do we think about charging for our time, depending on the context? And then we've got a fourth thread this year, which is actually on the whole area of diversity, inclusivity, lived experience, and what do we need to learn as facilitators in this generation about how we handle those issues, even if that's not the topic of the discussion. You might be doing a session on something very engineering or very management based, but how are you managing diversity, inclusion and dealing with people's lived experience in different areas? So there's quite a variety of stuff. There's four parallel tracks. There's no big lectures. There's some opening and closing sessions and any sense of how many. You probably do know this, I expect it's written down somewhere. But how many different sessions are there altogether? 30 ish, because we're running, apart from the opening and closing each day, we're running four tracks all the time from, like, from when we set off on the Friday morning until Saturday afternoon. And there's a closing plenary, so there's about 30 dishes to take from the buffet and you can go to about a quarter of those. If you. If you went to a session in every slot, you could go to about a quarter of that number. But then there'll be other ways of accessing some of that material and talking to other people and stuff. So it is a bit like a buffet and having taste of this and a taste of that. That sounds like there's so much to choose from and that's the important thing, isn't it? You're not sort of channeled in a particular direction. You can choose what you want to suit you. I would say what's quite interesting, because I was at a session this morning talking with some of the session leaders. We've got quite a few people who are not only coming for the conference for the first time, but they're jumping in the deep end and are doing a session and this is their first contact with IAF. So that's quite exciting and quite brave of them. It is. I was going to ask, actually, how many people doing sort of offering sessions have not done it before? Because some people do offer sessions sort of fairly regularly at the IAF conferences. We counted it up last year and we reckoned it split about a third. A third? A third. A third of the people were, you know, connected into IAF. They were probably members, they were involved in something, that kind of thing. There was about a third who we might count as IAF friends. They. This wasn't their first IAF event experience. They. Maybe they come to meetups or they'd been to a previous conference or they knew somebody. And about a third of the people last year, they had just heard of this conference, they just heard of IAF and they came along, and that was their first baptism of fire, if you like. So I don't know if the balance is the same yesterday, but there's certainly, there's that breadth coming that's really nice and really good that there's sort of some, I guess, old hands, if you like, that are sort of really familiar with. Very politely put, helen, very experienced facilitators who are coming back to share their wisdom again and some new faces. My really strong memory last year was a young woman who came from another country. We'll talk about that in a minute. She contacted us very hesitant, said, I'm not from the UK. I studied in the UK. I want to come over and see my university friends. I want to come to the conference. What do you think about me doing a session? Would it be okay? I'm not that experienced as a facilitator, and I'm really new to IAF, so we encouraged her to come over and go for it. She was really quite frightened when she turned up on the day. She was brilliant. It was a lovely session. It was really, really good, because one of the things that happens is everybody coming to this conference in the past, they realize that they've been on the other side of this. So there's a willingness to explore new ground with someone who's been trying to facilitate something and encourage them and go along with their process and their game or whatever it is. So it becomes a very positive place even to try something completely new, even if you're very nervous. And I'm sure that will happen again this year. We'll have someone doing that. And I know I've always felt, when I've gone to the conferences before, really felt that actually, that it's quite, the phrase is a little bit overused, safe space to actually explore and experiment and have a go. And it's a really supportive community, isn't it? So, you know, nobody's going to turn around and go, oh, no, I didn't like that. You know, there may be some reflective comments and all the rest of it, but it's all very, very supportive. So, yeah, if you are jumping in for the first time, and that's an intentional sort of cultural feel of the conference that I think we've tried to maintain certainly since, I mean, the first one I went to was 2019, and that feeling was already there, you know, and when you've got people who are everything from, you know, the kind of work I do in the public sector with being industry clients, but we've got people who are deeply involved in social. Social interaction, you know, social issues of mental health, all those kind of areas, or they're working with people in deprivation. You've got people working in the private sector, and there's an openness to say this is interesting. It's not the kind of work I do, but I really found what you did there really thoughtful, and maybe I can translate that back into my world. That's one of the things I love most about these two days. And I guess that's facilitation in general, isn't it, though? It's such a broad array of different, you know, there's so many different ways to look at it, different takes on it. So it's really nice that there's that appetite to kind of bring that huge range together in one place. Nice. Okay. And are you able to. I know you're doing a session, aren't you? I was just going to say, could you maybe give us one or two, a flavor of one or two of the sessions you think are coming up? Tell us about your session, maybe from the four tracks. I know there are people coming and teaching particular skills. I think we've got someone doing some of the ICA facilitation technique stuff and demonstrating some of that. There are people. There's one. One. Someone's going to do something on the thinking organization, which I'm pretty sure is based on the work of Nancy Klein. Go Google, Nancy Klein thinking organization. We're going to do one myself and one of my fellow resolutions, Helen and Amelia Wakeford, who's also in the IAF group, we have found as a little trio that a lot of what we're doing now could be put under the very, very broad umbrella of systems thinking. It's thinking about how different parts of an organization fit together to do something, getting people out of siloed organizations in local government or central government or charity, whatever. And it's a big focus in the public sector now, particularly from the chief scientific advisors. So we're going to do a session that looks at the breadth of what falls under that umbrella of system thinking, everything from rich pictures right the way through to people who actually put numbers and money and things into them. We'll have a little go and we'll probably go into the area of what if the system is complex, or we'll talk about wicked problems and stuff like that. How far can you go with this, especially? Maybe you've got limited time and energy and money and actually start to deal with the complexity in systems rather than simplifying it out and then ignoring it and then wondering why it doesn't work. Well, it's because you took all the complexity out of it. So that'll be a fun hands on session, and it's something we do a lot of. Brilliant. I think I quite like the look of your session, actually. The program is coming out for the conference very, very soon. It's being formed up now, so very soon it'll be on social media and everybody will be able to see what's going on. Great. Okay. What specifically are you looking forward to? I think you sort of mentioned a couple of minutes ago that, you know, that the whole sort of diversity of different, you know, seeing lots of different people doing different types of facilitation. But what else are you looking forward to from the conference? Probably don't say it being over and you not having to organize it anymore. No, that's not really a big thing. Everybody's tired on the Saturday night. Yes. Content side. I like the fact that over the weekend I can go to something intentionally that I think I know nothing about what they're going to do. It's going to be completely alien. Let's go and see. Let's go and play. Let's go and explore that. And whenever I do that, something completely different to what I do, I always come away with maybe two or three bullets. And I'm thinking, that's really interesting. I can use that in what I do. The second thing, and I'm going to give you three. Good to have threes. Second thing is I love watching other people do it. I know people at the conference, but then you go and watch them do a session, and there's always something to learn about it could be the style they do it, the way they talk about it. It could be the method. It could be this way. I love watching other people facilitate because we don't always get to do that. You know, so often you have to do your stuff and do your way, and watching anybody doing it the way they do it gives you some interesting things to learn. And then the last thing is, because of the nature of the conference that we've talked about, I'm just really enthused over two days to watch people eating and drinking, if you like. I don't mean the food, I mean the content of the process, the energy we put into organizing it. There is a lot of energy in putting the content together. But what really makes me happy about the whole thing, and inspired by it, is watching people enter into it and throw themselves into it. Watching them having conversations with people they've never met and would never meet and, and go away taking whatever it is they've taken from the conference. We will never know all the things, but I've really enjoyed over the three or four I've been involved in, watching the people go in, eat effectively, eat and drink the context of the experience, and then go away full and enthused. And then you watch the communications in the weeks afterwards on social media, on LinkedIn or whatever, you're in contact with them and how the buzz carries on. And, you know, last year we had 70 people. This year we've got 100. We haven't even announced the program yet. That is word of mouth. A lot of it is people who came last year or the year before and have said they're coming and have told somebody else, and now they're coming, too, which I think is brilliant. And that says quite a lot about us as a community. I think about how we kind of interact with each other and how we talk about all this stuff. And I do remember thinking about that, your sort of third thing you're looking forward to last year, certainly feeling that energy, and you're right, that buzz afterwards. And it is a very energizing and, you know, slightly exhausting as well. But there's always two sides of the same thing, but that sort of real energy, feeling very energized. And then, as you say, yeah, just talking about it for ages afterwards and meeting some amazing people, it's a really great space to do that. Okay. And thinking about the people then that are coming. I think this year we've also got quite a few people, or some people at least, who are coming from outside the UK, quite a long way outside the UK as well. We're, of course, immensely privileged in running a conference in English as our home language. And never forget that english people, how privileged you are about to have that in that. That means other people, if they've got English as a second language, can come and join in, which is more challenging. I would be really challenged this week at the conference in Italy because that's going to be in Italian. So we often had people, I remember people coming from Holland last year with Belgium and one of the others. This has been very interesting. There's someone coming from, if Italy, Tanzania, South Africa, Hong Kong. And we might have somebody coming from one of the Middle east chapters. We're not quite sure. These are people who've got to get visas to come to the UK. They can't just jump on a plane and come. Those are the four or five. I know about. There might be others because I haven't seen the full ticketing list. And these are people who want to come and get some of what we've been talking about before and take it home. So I talked to people last year from one or two other countries. One of their objectives of coming was to say, we've heard about the way this conference runs. We'd like to come and experience it and then maybe take a bit of that back and do that where we are. And one country particularly, I don't think it had a conference for some years, and this year in May, they're doing one day as a start, but they're going to do that. Another, they don't know they're doing conferences in their country, and they've taken bits of what we've done and said, oh, yeah, we could do a bit like that as well, mold it to their own culture and their own local needs. So that's a real privilege to have people coming in for those reasons. That's amazing and really good that those people and other people presumably see it, see this conference and see, you know, what's been happening over the last few years when we've been doing conferences as something that is, I don't know, maybe inspirational, maybe, you know, it's something that other people can take something from, as you say, which is really exciting. So it's not just the day or two days. It's got legs. It's, you know, reaching out a lot further. I went whatever year it was, I went to the european IAF conference, all the european chapters in Milan. And so because it was a european conference, they did it in English, not in Italian. Normally they do it in Italian, and it had a very similar feel in some ways. They were obviously tapping into some of the same things that we're seeing as valuable in terms of their choice of venue and the way they ran it and stuff. This very, very open approach to conference for facilitation, I think has some real payoffs, real benefits. And so I think this is about maybe the 7th or so England and Wales conference that we have put on, because I remember quite a few years ago there being sort of large meetups that have slowly, over the years, morphed into actual big conferences like this. And I know there have also been several IAF european conferences as you just sort of talked about. Obviously, they've grown. They've become, you know, it sounds like they've become definitely more of a, you know, people know about them a lot more. You know, what do you attribute this success to. Why do you think the, if England and Wales conferences are successful, have become successful, hopefully continue to be successful? There's probably a few things. One is it's easier to do this if you've got a single common language and a big pool you can draw on. So that's easy. There's been a series of leaders in IAF, England and Wales since way before my time, who have started to foster this idea of the conference. It's only one of the things IAF does, does the podcast and meetups, and this kind of thing being something that the local chapter in the country sees not as a gathering just for the members. It's not a club meeting. It's part of the expression of the IAF aim of promoting the power of facilitation and promoting professional development for facilitators. And so it's become very intentionally IAF England and Wales, and friends, and the friends are as important as the members in this, in terms of their contribution to the event. So it's a community, it's based around the IAF England and Wales chapter, but it's got a large open tent at the sides. The comparison I did, someone said a little, it's like going to a music festival. Go to Glastonbury, there's the people who are in the tent. If you go to the big tents of Glastonbury, there's always another 4000 people just around the tent, and they're enjoying the concert and taking part in it as well. And they're just as much a part of it, even though theyre not, or not yet perhaps members in that sense. But weve got people deeply involved in the conference programme who are not IAF members, but theyre deeply committed to the if England and Wales and friends community. And thats been an intentional principle, at least back to 2017, 1819, somewhere around there. And so its done from an attitude of generosity and giving, you know, as the eye of England and Wales, not as a, a club, and you must be a member. And all this kind of thing, which we love people becoming members, we love people using the professional development in IAF. I do it all, but it's a possession then to give, not to hold it all tight. So makes it a little bit messier, a little bit untidy, and I think all the better for it. But if we avoided all the messiness and untidiness, we'd never do anything. We'd have an association that was, you know, constantly trying to work out where its next ten members came from. And I think that always. It does feel like that's always been. Ever since I've been part of IAF, certainly the England and Wales chapter, there's always been quite an inclusive way of doing things. So all the meetups, you know, invite other people, you know, it's never been an only member's sort of way of doing things. And I think it's really nice because also, facilitation is huge, isn't it? It's got, as you say, where's the tent stop? That concept reflects the nature of the job we do in facilitation as well. And, you know, some of those people, if you think of it like an onion, people come in, some people come into the edge of it and come to a conference and they go away. We never see them again, or they come to a meetup. And some people get much closer in. Some people are very embedded in the if England and Wales and friends community, and some of those people become members. We also get people who become members of IAF and come to the community through that door. And one thing I always say to people about membership is come to receive and to learn, but come to give. If you look at the IAF competencies and principles, quite a few, quite a bit of it is about what you're giving to the profession of facilitation and encouraging other people, particularly, obviously, as you go on and perhaps gain more experience. And you never have a bigger shovel, as they say, when you start giving to a thing like this, you always get back more than you shuffled in. Definitely. No, it sounds really exciting. I'm really looking forward to coming, and I'm really looking forward to meeting some people I know and chatting about stuff that, you know, we know about. And also, I think, more importantly, meeting people that I don't know, hearing new stuff, hearing about new ways of doing things. I think it's great that there's, you know, there's four different tracks and four different options. I am going to struggle to decide what to put on my buffet plate because I always do. But, yeah, really looking forward to it. Thank you so much, Paul, for talking to me today. Any last plugs? Anything else we need to know about the conference before, before we wrap up? I think the big question we're having at the moment in the conference group is, what on earth do we do if more than 120 people want to come next year, what would we do? But that's a problem. For further down the line, the program is pretty much done. We're now getting into the stage of there's a list of small things that need to be done, like what do we need to print and all that kind of thing. But it's just been wonderful to see the people booking in and the variety of people. It's one of my most enjoyable weekends of the year. Yay. I'm really excited. Well, I look forward to seeing you there. Thank you so much. Thank you, Helen. Good to talk to.
| |||
| 07 Oct 2019 | FS1 Introducing Facilitation Stories and IAF England Wales Meetups | 00:26:28 | |
Get in touch! We’re @IAFEnglandWales on Twitter. In this first episode, we introduce the show and the IAF’s England and Wales Chapter. We also let you know you how you can get involved, because one of the aims of the show is also to help the community come together beyond the MeetUps, and for those of you who can't attend the Meetups, to find out what's going on in them! We talk about what do we mean by facilitation?
We hear the story one of our co-hosts. Helene's story, She started off as a Speech and Language Therapist then went overseas to work in Nepal training people in a very participatory style. She heard about facilitation and working in International Development, then for several charities and began to use and hone her facilitation skills more. After her second maternity leave she set up on her own as a freelancer. IAF England and Wales, how are facilitators connecting. There are different types of meet ups all over England and Wales aimed at sharing skills, supporting each other and creating a community of like minded people. The one hour coffee meet ups are in Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Newcastle, North Wales, Oxfordshire, Winchester, Cambridgeshire, Manchester and more evolving all the time. Then there are Learning and networking meet ups that last 4 hours in London, South West and The Midlands. And London has drinks meet ups. The up coming conference – 18th and 19th October in Birmingham. Eventbrite link There are a range of different sessions such as laughter yoga, Lego serious play, Pliar’s session on podcasting, an outdoors session with Jenny Archard and Alex Williams, a session on building in house facilitator networks…
https://www.meetup.com/IAF-South-West-England-facilitators-and-friends/events/wpsdcryznbmb/
https://www.meetup.com/IAF-South-West-England-facilitators-and-friends/events/gthbzqyznbtb/
Something to say about an IAF Meetup you've attended. And, we're looking for more volunteers from the IAF England and Wales chapter to join us to continue producing this podcast.
https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales
| |||
| 17 Oct 2022 | BONUS Incorporating asynchronous communication into team facilitation | 00:41:58 | |
Happy Facilitation Week everyone! To get in touch with the team behind Facilitation Stories, head over to https://facilitationstories.com/ | |||
| 21 Oct 2019 | FS02 Facilitation and Sustainability with Penny Walker | 00:31:47 | |
Get in touch! We’re @IAFEnglandWales or @Fac_stories on Twitter. Helene Jewell talks to Penny Walker Facilitator, Coach, Consultant and trainer in change for sustainable development. She's the author of two books and has contributed to a whole variety of other publications. Penny tells Helene about how she started working as a facilitator, through her work with Friends of the Earth, the environmental pressure group, as a campaigner and then moved across to managing the team of people who provide support to local Friends of the Earth support groups across England, Wales and Northern Ireland. These were mostly volunteers and many of them came from a community development background. It was them that first introduced her to facilitation – meetings that were pleasant and got somewhere. Penny became interested in the grey areas between people and organisations that were taking very positional attitudes towards different issues, disagreements between the organisations and the spokespeople representing the organisation and in what happens when you want to change something in an organisation from within, or when there are problems that need to be solved but there are a lots of different needs and concerned. Solving these problems took Penny towards facilitation. Penny learned through Environmental Resolve, consensus building with Andrew Acland and Pippa Hyam. She also took an ICA course and read Robert Chambers' book Participatory Workshops as well as The Complete Facilitators Handbook by John Herron. Facilitators have a role in holding complexity and allowing people to be braver, to talk about doubts, what they don’t know, enabling people to be a couple of layers more honest and to help us move towards the society we want to create. What Penny enjoys most about facilitation: it’s an adventure, it's contributing to a better future and she seems to be getting good feedback. Penny talks about two pieces of work: one she did recently with a multinational fast moving consumer goods company that has a leadership position in the sustainability sector and one with an organisation that has a sustainability mission but not specifically about climate change. Penny takes a very eclectic approach to facilitation: some of her work is more task focused creating plans, going through documents. For example how to protect communities and areas against increased risk of flooding is more technical – engineers and technical experts who know about modelling, future likely climatic patterns, and others who understand treasury rules about funding. And then members of the public trying to give their views. So there is a set of challenges about bring these different groups together, finding the right level of language. The conversation moves onto what is meant by sustainability. Penny cites the Bruntland definition Or Common Future report https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/5987our-common-future.pdf – meeting the needs of the present without undermining the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. Helene then asks the question, Penny addresses this in a range of ways, including that as an IAF member we can recommend people, being brave and imaginative about recommending colleagues who are local to where the event takes place we can cut down on our transport. Finally, Penny talks about a course run by Belina Raffy “Sustainable standup” https://www.maffick.com/ after which she did a stand up gig for friends and family so a supportive audience. It was a great experience and you can read about it here: https://www.penny-walker.co.uk/blog/2018/5/31/putting-on-my-clowns-trousers-with-sustainable-stand-up
Something to say about an IAF Meetup you've attended. And, we're looking for more volunteers from the IAF England and Wales chapter to join us to continue producing this podcast.
https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales
| |||
| 20 Aug 2024 | FS70 Journaling, Writing and Facilitation with Claire Pearce | 00:30:07 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Claire Pearce about Journaling and Writing. Claire is a writer and facilitator who runs journaling and writing workshops and she also has her own radio show. They talk about:
“Externalising the internal is probably my favourite expression to describe it”
“I think just start really small is my main bit of advice”
“ It's kind of like whatever people share they're ultimately sharing something about being human”
A full transcript is below. Links Today’s guest: To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter: Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team: Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/
N.W Hello, and welcome to facilitation stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Nikki Wilson and today I'm going to be talking to Claire Pearce. So welcome, Claire.
C.P Hello, Nikki, thank you for having me.
N.W No problem. So first of all, um, could you tell us a little bit more about you and what you do?
C.P Okay, so I do lots of things, which I've, I've begun to reconcile myself with. So in terms of journaling, and writing, I run journaling and writing workshops. One workshop I do is more about just writing for fun. And I call it writing for fun, even though it's sort of morphed out of journaling, I'm using prompts and things to get people just to write freely and have a bit of fun with it, and see where their pen goes, which is great for if people are sort of blocked or just want to have a bit of fun writing, heaven forbid. And then the other leg is more sort of self help, I suppose. So I do a monthly workshops that has a theme, like in January, I always do my, what's your theme workshop? So what's your theme for the year? So we reflect back and we look forward and sort of develop a theme or get to something near a theme. So it's that kind of thing. So there's the two different kinds. But yes, they are all with the idea of getting people writing because fundamentally, whether you write, journal or something in between, it's all good for you. At least it is for most people.
N.W And beyond that, obviously, I know you also as a facilitator. So is there anything else that you want to say about your facilitation?
C.P I guess, yeah, I do freelance research work. I really enjoy it. I love sort of learning about something completely new, kind of going, Oh, wow, this is interesting. And yeah, so I do that as well. And I do do an odd bit of coaching. And I do have my own radio show. But that is obviously a voluntary,not obviously. But it is a voluntary thing that I do, because I love it. What else Oh, and I write, I've written a few books, I'm writing a few more. And I'm just getting into copywriting. It's going to be another string to my bow, because I've realised I really enjoy it. So yes, lots of things, I'll probably be something else the next time I speak to you.
N.W I know that's that feeling Claire, don't worry. But today, we are going to be talking about journaling and writing.Both are something that facilitators might do on a personal level, also as an approach that we could use with groups. So thinking first of all about on an individual level, what is it that you feel makes journaling and writing so powerful?
C.P Externalising the internal is probably my favourite expression to describe it. And that's exactly what it does. And you know, I'm trying to find a way to capture that thing. You know, when people say a problem shared is a problem halved or whatever , there's something so true about that. And whilst it's not as powerful as speaking to a person, because that is the ultimate, you know, if you're struggling with something, or even if you just want to offload doing it with another person, there is something about the energy, I think, that passes out of you to somebody else that's different than if you write it down. But writing it down is the next best thing. And you can do it 24/7, because you've always got a pen and a piece of paper to hand. So you're not having to rely on it, I suppose it is a bit about self reliance, probably a part of my own personal journey with it. But yeah, just getting stuff out so that you can see it in a different way, you get a different perspective. And yeah, it just makes you feel better. And you can, you know, see things that you wouldn't have thought if you had just kept it in your head, you know, it stops the spin cycle. It helps you get a bit of respite, if you know if something is whizzing around in your head like that tumble dryer type effect. It gives you a bit of respite from that. And like I say, you look at it, and you get some different perspective. And just the energy of writing it, getting it out of you releases something, I think.
N.W Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. Listeners won't know but I'm a regular in your workshops, and really kind of learned the power of journaling over the past year and a half, two years. I think there's also something about the kinds of patterns spotting where I've probably identified things that come up again and again and again. And I have no idea that they were quite so regularly going to be coming up, you know, like, I knew that they'd been niggling away for a while. But when I look back, I think, oh, you know, how is that theme or things related to it continue to resurface, then there's a chance to kind of dig deeper into that.
C.P And also, depending on how you use journaling, and like you say, if you're the sort of person who will look back and reflect over a period of time, there's so much you can learn. You know, you can see you're likely to see themes and recurring patterns and recurring dynamics and start to see, oh, there's a one common thing here and that's me. So it's not saying everything's my fault, but it's starting to see that there's something about the way I'm reacting or creating something, you know, that is relevant. And yeah, but there's, there's so many benefits, we could spend probably hours talking about all the benefits.
N.W And so I mean, what's been your own journey with journaling? Have you always journaled or is it something that you've particularly found that has evolved over recent years?
C.P It's definitely evolved. I probably started journaling properly about, I'm gonna say 10 years ago, without overthinking it too much. But I was in therapy at the time. And my therapist recommended, it was called something like freeform writing for therapeutic something another at the Gestalt centre. I think she still runs it, actually. And I thought, Oh, she's just trying to get a course out of me. I was quite cynical, honestly, because I just thought, oh, writing is not my thing. Because my sister was always the writer and I was more sort of arty, whereas we've swapped which is really interesting over the years. So I went to this writing thing, thinking a bit, feeling a little bit. And I absolutely loved it. And I use some of what I experienced in that workshop as my inspiration for the way I run workshops, because there's a lot of pair work, and it's all about just getting stuff down and sharing it because we're all the same underneath. We've all got the same neuroses and anxieties, and, you know, hopes and dreams, you know, we're not as different as we think we are. And when you share with people, which is what I do in my workshops with the journaling, it's amazing how people connect, and it's almost like I can, I can see the relief sometimes with people where they're like, oh, it's not just me, you know, whatever it is. Sorry, back to my journey. So yeah, I did that a weekend and I just loved it. I made everybody I knew do writing with me, free writing, I suppose, essentially where you just let go into the pen and just keep going. And then I started the workshops. But yeah, so on a personal level, it was just that weekend, the stuff you know, and I always talk about stuff with a little asterisk, which is just all the pent up, unprocessed, unfelt, unacknowledged feelings, emotional responses, you know, all this stuff in me that had nowhere to go, I didn't even know it didn't have anywhere to go. But I realised during that weekend of writing, it's like oh wow there's stuff that needs to come out here. It was really dark. And there was a lot of swearing, and but it was all, you know, you could kind of just go for it. And I really got into it after that. So I'd say that was you know, I had a diary when I was a kid. But it was so dull. I kept one page of it just to remind me how dull it was. I had tea, I went to bed, went to school. It was so dull, I didn't get it. So yeah, and like you say, evolve it, you know, it has really evolved my journaling. And funnily enough, recently, I was reflecting, I haven't journaled anywhere near as much in the last year or so, but I've written a lot more. And I've sort of realised that my journaling has more evolved into writing. So I get the same, I think I get the same thing out of writing that I did out of journaling, it has definitely changed over time. Yeah.
N.W And so for any facilitators listening who haven't tried journaling before, or perhaps are doing it but aren't aware they're doing it, what would you suggest in terms of getting started, you know, just having a go?
C.P Well if they're doing it, and they're not aware they're doing it, then they don't need to do anything, I'd say. It doesn't really matter, I don't think what you call it. If you, if people haven't tried it, there's a few ways in, one of them is just to pick a, first of all, pick a time that works for you, don't try and do it, don't sort of fall into that, oh, I should be able to get up in the morning and at least do half an hour, you know, that never works. So find a time that works for you. It could be on the hoof, you know, it could be like five minutes at lunchtime if you have a lunchtime. So just a time that works for you, just pick you know, think tomorrow when is going to be a good time and pick that moment. And then just write for five minutes. Maybe just write about how the day has been so far. Just just to get started. I mean, a really good prompt is “I noticed” and Nikki, you would have heard me use that before in workshops. But it's a really interesting one because it's completely different. If you just write what did I do today, or it brings up completely different things I notice. So I noticed as a good prompt, I guess it depends what people want to get out of it. Because I'd say whilst ultimately just pick up a pen and write some stuff down. If you're wanting to journal in a way like you do, where you write over a period of time and then you review back and you're looking to learn about yourself or you know your habits, how you do things and learn about where you can make your life easier, really, I'm not going to say improved because I think we're all fine just as we are. But then that's a very different. You might want to be a bit more regular and a little bit more, I'm going to leave it for a month and then I'm going to look back and see what's there. Personally for me, the journaling I've done the most is what I call medicinal journaling, which is basically in the moment. So if you're feeling stressed or anxious or angry, anything that's a bit difficult. I mean some people find excitement difficult so let's throw that in there as well. You know that in the moment ,what's going on? Why am I feeling anxious? Sometimes we don't know. So that's when I am most likely to pick up my journal or get my phone out if I'm out and about and type, you know, just type it in and just describe it. You know, where is it in your body, how you feeling? What's going on? Just what's going on in your life because it can be so obvious sometimes, but you don't see it always. But when you start writing it down, it will pop up. And you'll go, Oh, yes, that's what this is about. So that's really helpful to know. Because then you can do something about it. So medicinal. But then, you know, I say that I started doing that after I had journaled more regularly. So maybe, maybe it's not easy to start with that? I don't know. But yeah, I think it does depend on what you want to journal for. But yeah, I think just start really small is my main bit of advice, because if I had a penny for everybody who said, I can do at least half an hour, and I can get up a bit earlier, that's not much to ask, well, but it's the same with any habit and you don't do it, you might do it for a few days, but then you'll stop. And then you'll feel bad because you've stopped and then you won't do it again. So start with a minute, you know, literally just go a minute in the morning and just go, how am I feeling today? Just name it.
N.W And I think there's definitely something powerful about getting started as well, actually finding the minute to put the pen to the page, sometimes it then becomes an hour and you hadn't realised, but you would never have intentionally carved out an hour to do it. It's just that once it starts Oh, I can't stop now, maybe that's just me, but.
C.P Yeah, no, that's absolutely what happens. But if you said, you said I'm going to do an hour, you'd be like, Oh, God, I don't want to do that. That's too much. I've got too much to do, blah, blah, blah.
N.W And so thinking more about our roles as Facilitators, and working with groups, I mean, obviously, you've you've mentioned pair work already. But often we're in a situation where we're trying to get people to talk to each other and to interact better. So with that in mind, why would you encourage Facilitators to consider bringing writing activities into a group situation?
C.P Well, I guess the most obvious place, I would think it would be a great thing would be in a sort of icebreaker context. Because I just think, you know, I've been on lots of workshops, and I've run lots of workshops. And you know, and, and so is everybody listening to this, and so have you, you know, and good ice breaking is so powerful, can change the whole session, whatever, whatever it is. And for me, when people turn up, one of my favourite exercises is what I call ‘The Whine Bar’, which I think you've done, which is just to have a good moan and a good whine about anything in your life, just get it all out. Because I think this is half the problem. We don't allow ourselves to be honest, even with ourselves. And I think journaling has really helped me with that actually going back to your earlier question. So really kind of just getting stuff out. So that's a nice thing to do. Because it just allows people, it's kind of going you're allowed to be human here, I think, I mean I didn't plan it. I didn't think about it before I did this exercise. But on reflection, I think that's part of it. So it's a real, you're allowed to be human, you're allowed to moan. Doesn't mean you're gonna dwell in it for the rest of the session or whatever, but you're just allowed to get it out. And then by putting people in pairs to share, and I always invite people to either share what they wrote, or just talk about how it was because not everybody wants to do that, obviously. And there's just, I think it's, there's just something magical that happens, because when people come back, and I see their faces in person as well, people have such an energy, most, you know, 99% of the time. And you can see they shared something with their fellow human being. Even I mean, I don't know, because I don't get to hear what people say to each other. But it's just that humaneness. It's kind of like whatever people share they're ultimately sharing something about being human, whether it's like, oh God, I felt like it was, like I say, so it's that whole it wasn't just me that, you know, is crazed about the election, or, you know, whatever, or that feels like I'm gonna lose my mind on a daily basis, or whatever it is. And that privacy of the pair, which again, I know, I don't need to tell this to this audience, because you'll all know about, you know, the individual, you know, if you put people in threes, they just won't share as much and somebody could still not talk. Whereas pairs, people have to say something, even if it's, I don't want to say anything. And there's something about that that's liberating. It's kind of like, Yeah, you don't have to fine. So I just, yeah, like I say, when I see those faces, when people come back, it's a beautiful thing. And, and they've just shared something more than, you know, knocking about an idea. And I don't think there's any context that is out of bounds for that, I guess, if you're dealing with people, maybe where people are struggling with mental health, for example, if you knew, if it's an explicit situation where that's being talked about or worked on, I guess you would kind of maybe approach it slightly differently. I probably still do the same kind of thing, but maybe in a slightly different way. But so I think it's really powerful for that and as we work through a workshop, you know,it just continues to do that same thing. People are seen and heard, you know, and people can go a whole year without being seen and heard and you know, immediately even if it's irrelevant to the topic, I think that's the thing as well. It's just the magic of that being seen and heard and listened to and witnessing somebody else, you know, you get to witness somebody else and realise, again, that we're all human and flawed, worried we're getting it wrong, desperate to get it right, all of that nonsense, you know, we realise that it's not just us.
N.W What is it you say about kind of starting that with some writing rather than just saying, you know, have a good whine to your partner, whatever? What is it about the writing part of it that you think particularly allows for those, that kind of opening up?
C.P Yeah, that's a good question. So I think when you write stuff down, you can just be much more honest than if you were speaking out loud. You know, if I asked you a question, and you gave me the answer, or I said to you write down what you think about, you're going to be much more, again, 99%, the time you're going to be, everyone's going to be much more honest, in what they write down on a piece of paper, because it's private, it's for them. And I always say to people, you know, write it for yourself, first decide afterwards, if you want to share any of it or not. So it is it's that honesty, it's that, you know, and I can still, I can still edit myself and journal. And I think we might have even had this conversation, but it's still possible to completely be editing yourself, but to suddenly realise I'm still editing what I think and what I'm allowed to say. And journaling does give you that freedom and just think you're gonna, you're going to be more honest. And then when you share it, you're more likely to sort of take a bit of a risk. And people are often quite surprised by what they write down, things that they haven't seen will come out. So people want to share that, they want to go Oh, God, I can't believe I wrote that. I can't believe that, I thought I dealt with that thing. But here it is. And it's, they want to share what surprised them, I think.
N.W And so you've talked about the wine bar,as a kind of opener activity. What other sort of favourite activities do you have that you use with groups?
C.P Well, as you well know, ‘what does the radiator think?’ is probably my favourite, which is where we use dialoguing, which is a journaling technique. It's so powerful and maybe you can say something about your experience. So let's say we've just written about, let's go to the New Year workshop, and you've just written about the year gone by and reflected on this that and the other. And then I'll invite you to sort of go pick an object, and I'm sitting here looking and there's, I'm at my friend's house, he's got lots of gold animals. That's a whole nother story. Anyway, there's a golden parrot sitting there on this lamp, you know, and I might choose, you know, you just pick an object that you kind of are drawn to. And then I'll say right now what does the parrot think about what you've just written. So now I write as if I'm the parrot having just observed me writing about what I've just written about. And it just you have to try it if you're listening, because it's just endlessly useful. And you could literally, every object in your room, every inanimate object in your room, a door, a lamp, ironing board, it doesn't matter what it is, but you'll get something different from each of those things. And a good example of that, is when people pick plants, or trees or flowers, they tend to have like a nurturing voice. So it accesses this nurturing part of them that is always there. Of course, it's always there, but they wouldn't have found that bit of them in another way. I mean, there probably are other ways to find that, but it's just a really quick and easy way. So people will be giving themselves this amazing advice that's going to help them from a plant sitting on their desk. And then they're kind of going oh yeah, I can do this for myself, you know, and it's, it's so powerful. And the perspectives that one gets, I mean, a really good example of this, and it might be a little bit personal, but it was so good that I just have to share it. So I have this whole fantasy family where and it's a really good thing to do for journaling actually where you just pick people who would be your ideal uncle or your ideal grandparents or whatever, cousin ,second cousin, I've got a whole load. And that's just a fun thing to do anyway, it's like a game I made up one Christmas I think just like fantasy family, who would they be? And then I've a few times I've used them in journaling as another dialoguing thing because obviously you don't know those people but you know if you've picked somebody you're familiar with. So Charles and Caroline from Little House on the Prairie are my fantasy parents, probably everybody's fantasy parents assuming people know who they are. So the other day I was really struggling, I've, you know, we've all got these situations where it's just there's no easy answer sometimes and you have to sort of accept there's nothing I can do about this right now. I just have to be within. So I wrote to Caroline and Charles. So what should I do, like what I didn't really say that much about the situation but what should I do? And they replied, and Caroline just went,the mother obviously, she just went go lie down dear, go upstairs and lie down for a bit. Just forget about it. And I was and I know that sounds so simple, because I've had much more complicated and fascinating dialogues with characters but it was exactly what I needed. I just needed to be told just stop, just stop. And that was the end of that conversation. I didn't need anything else. It was like, oh, yeah, and it was so, so useful. So it's just got so many potential uses from something, you know, like that to, to getting the radiator to say to you, you know, you're over worrying about this, just get a grip. Or, whatever it is, you know. And in fact, what was it the other day? Oh, it was something Yeah, it was the radiator. It was something about that the radiator was saying, you know, I'm stuck here on the wall, I can't do anything, I can't go anywhere, but you can, but you feel the same as me. And you know, something like that. It's just kind of like Oh god yeah, there's a real, it really helps to pin down that feeling. Obviously, you can relate that into whatever your session is about. You can play around with it. Let's say you're facilitating something about a strategy for a business, you know, you can ask the business what it thinks. So you could get everybody to talk about it, write about it, whatever about it, and then go right now think about the business, the product, what does the product think, and again, the stuff that can come out of that just can be amazing. So it's got no bounds, that exercise and I will never tire of talking about how fabulous it is.
N.W In fact, some listeners, if they were there, might remember the very first time I encountered that specific exercise was in an IAF conference workshop.
C.P Oh, yes.
N.W We were in the depths of lockdown.
C.P Yes, we were. N.W My lovely radiator was very kind to me and said, you know, that it could see me kind of struggling away being stuck on my own computer. And you know, all of the different things I was doing. And I mean, it sounds, it feels crazy to talk about it in this way. But I would say that it just gave that different perspective. And I think one of the things that I do more regularly, like one of the activities I would do in journaling, is more of a kind of dialoguing now, but it's even more like a conversation with myself. So I'm imagining there's somebody else there going, So why is that? You know, could you tell me a bit about that? You know, again, it sounds like talking to yourself, but
C.P It kind of is? Yeah, it kind of is really it's kind of, but it's a much more sort of constructive way to talk to yourself.
N.W Yeah and to work through things I think as well. Like it's progressive, isn't it, it helps me certainly get out of a loop. And I can imagine, as you said, in a business scenario, or you know, work scenario, you can get quite entrenched in your own role in something and actually pulling in that different perspective and going, you know, what does the customer think? What does the factory think? Whatever it is just kind of shakes that up a little bit. Okay. So then, I mean, we've talked quite a lot there about different things that a facilitator could do to introduce some writing into their workshops. Have you got any sort of thoughts or advice on how to convince clients that it's a good idea? You know, if you've got any suggestions for that?
C.P Do you mean in terms of a proposal for a workshop?
N.W Yeah, like giving an outline or getting people to buy into it once you're in, in that scenario?
C.P But well I think that I'm not sure I'm gonna cleanly answer this question. But I can tell you that if you're in the situation, and you're already there, it's kind of, I mean, again, I think the whole, you know, I've read quite a lot about sort of with mental health and writing and well being and that kind of thing. And you do have to be a bit more careful. But I think as long as you name everything, it's fine. But I did a team building workshop with some pharmaceutical sales reps who were not impressed when it was announced that I was there to do some writing journaling with them, there was lots of folded arms. And it was quite a scary looking room. But I thought, Well, I haven't got anything else so this is what we're doing. And when it just does the work for you, you know, even the first exercise I just said to them, just write about everything you've done to get here this morning. And they were literally all of them didn't stop the pen moving. And I think that's an interesting point, actually, that people who don't normally reflect or don't normally write either or tend to take to it easier, because there's nothing in their way. Whereas you'll find people who write, if you had a group of writers in the room, they'll struggle much more with it from my experience, because they're worried about how they write, they're thinking more about what they're writing and how they're writing it, versus just getting stuff out. So that's an interesting thing to think about. But I still think just sort of go for it. But yeah, they, you know, their reflections and of course, again, I put them in pairs and this was the first just the first thing I did after lockdown in person. And you know, just them getting together in person talking about, you can feel the energy in the room that they just you have to take a leap I think with it sometimes because you're not gonna get people's buy in and people aren't gonna go Oh, yes, please I'd love to do that. It's like, Just do it. And then see what happens. And yeah, there's no situation I dont think I wouldn't do it. And I realised I forgot what your question was.
N.W It was just more about convincing clients as well. Like if they give an outline, this is what we're going to be doing. How would you propose, particularly if they'd said we want everyone to talk to each other lots. And intuitively, you might assume that if say everyone's writing, they're not really interacting, but you know, we've discussed that a bit, but how?
C.P Well I guess it is that isn't it, it's like you're gonna get everybody's voice heard in the room guaranteed because you're gonna, A, like we were talking about earlier, they're going to be more honest, when they write stuff down, then when they share, they're going to probably say something slightly different, that's more connecting, not necessarily, but they might, and everybody's voice will be heard, you know, not necessarily by the whole room. But again, when I've done workshops, you know, with some very quiet people, what's brilliant is, is when you come back from a pair, I'm thinking particularly about zoom here, I guess, because I've done more of it in the last few years. And then people will speak for the other people, they'll say, oh, so and so wrote this really interesting thing about such and such, and that person would have never necessarily volunteered to have it. But that person then will share for them and, and you can see, they're quite happy for that to happen. I mean, I guess this could happen that somebody wasn't happy, but I've never seen that happen. So I think that guaranteed to get voices heard for people to open their mouths and speak words, you know, and be involved and get them involved, right from the get go to me would be, that's, that's the thing I would try and sell. But if I felt like they were going to be resistant, I probably just call it something else and not go into detail about what it was, you know, just call it something innocuous and then bust it out when you get there.
N.W And are there any sort of facilitation tools or frameworks that you think can particularly work well, with journaling and writing activities kind of built into them?
C.P Yeah, well, I think so I have done coaching and I've used journaling, slash writing with coaching and that you can you know, the GROW Model, obviously, the most straightforward of all the coaching models and people know that model, you can sort of follow that with a situation. So that's how I'm going to self coach myself, that's sort of my go to, apart from medicinal journaling I talked about earlier. So literally, with the GROW, so goal, you know, it's like, what, what's the situation you're in? What do you want to happen? write about that, then the reality bits really interesting, because you can look back at what you've written, and kind of go through and go, Well, what's actually real here? What's my assumption? What, what's my generalisation? What's my judgement I'm making, in what I've just written? And that again, you can see that much easier than if you try and just say it or think it, you know, you just can't separate it out in that way. And normally, by that point, to be honest, I know, in my experience, and I know other people's as well, you already know what you need to do before you've even got probably even sometimes to reality. So that model is quite good. And then of course, if you do carry on options, you can write about options, you can ask the radiator, or whatever it is you choose, in that moment. The problem itself, ask the problem itself, what it would do?, you know, again, using those sorts of things for the options, and then the what's next, obviously, you just have to pick that. But so I guess in a coaching way that model, but you can pretty much use it with any model, I think, to be honest, because you just instead of talking about or brainstorming or whatever, you can just insert the writing where you would put brainstorming or just getting down the facts of the situation, you know, that people are in so.
N.W Great well, thank you so much Claire . I think that's probably the sort of end of my questions, and I have to kind of curve myself otherwise, I could keep asking all day, which as you know, I'm quite prone to doing. But if anyone who's been listening would like to find out more about your work or get in touch with you, what's the best place that they can do that?
C.P ClairePearce.uk. So it's CLAIRE, and then Pearce is PEARCE .uk There's no code it is specifically just UK. I've got two names that need spelling out, which is unfortunate. I have thought about changing my name but.
N.W That would be extreme.
C.P Anyway, that's where you know, my email is and all of that stuff.
N.W And thank you again, it's been really great to chat to you today.
C.P No problem. It's been a pleasure. And I hope some of that was useful for people and I'm very happy to answer people's questions if they want to ask me anything about it.
Outro
H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF England and Wales.
N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved all of the links are on our website facilitationstories.com
H.J And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use.
N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?
H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about.
N.W Then send us an email at podcast@IAF-EnglandWales.org
H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more facilitation stories.
N.W Until then, thank you for listening. | |||
| 10 Aug 2021 | FS36 From Scottish Retreats to Unleashing Potential through Liberating Structures | 00:25:22 | |
We have two guests joining our host Nikki Wilson in this episode: Steve Yorkstone, talking about IAF Scotland and Ewen Le Borgne, who talks about process literacy with Liberating Structures. Steve and some of the other members of the chapter are coming up with many ideas about how to develop the chapter.Steve works in a university, facilitating as part of his job in process improvement, and so he's keen to hear from people who use facilitation in all sorts of ways. LINKS: Twitter @IafScotland Starting at 05.39, Nikki introduces someone who got in touch with the podcast team: Ewen Le Borgne (by the way, we love hearing from you podcast@iaf-englandwales.org) While facilitation constitutes a lot of his work, Ewen doesn’t consider himself a facilitator. He has a Knowledge Management and Communication background, helping people think about how they can use their information and combine it with others. As this involves a lot of collaboration, behaviour change and relationships, facilitation plays a part. Ewen first experienced Liberating Structures as part of a Community of Practice called Knowledge Management for Development, but his first proper experience was a few years later. Working at a research centre for Agricultural Issues in Developing Countries he and a colleague arranged an Agricultural Process Knowledge Share Fair; They invited one of the pioneers of Liberating Structures to co-design and facilitate the event which allowed him to go in at the deep end with Liberating Structures. It has since become an increasing part of his work. Ewen goes on to explain what Liberating Structures are. The terms and language can be confusing but people usually experience them first as a toolbox of facilitation formats. Some have been developed by the co-creators of Liberating Structures. Others are borrowed from other sources but have been broken down across 5 micro design elements present in all Liberating Structures. More than this, he sees them as a pattern library; for helping groups collaborate and allow them to do something magical together. They’ve been developed from complexity theory and they’re particularly apt for complex environments. Nikki asks how Ewen’s use of Liberating Structures has evolved and become more of a part of his work. This has been quite gradual. In the “Share Fair” Ewen interested in how Fisher Qua had been able to use the Liberating Structures in different combinations to create results.. As he began to use them, he moved more into thinking about the language and logic and the lenses within them, such as looking at things in a dynamic way, or recognising that whatever you are doing that’s not adding value needs to be removed to make way for things that do add value. He realised that Liberating Structures is about getting deep, fast and as they’re easy to use - they don’t need a lot of facilitation experience. Liberating Structures is an open source movement so one can make a business out of it as long as the creators are credited. He never used purely Liberating Structures but began planting them into his process design and then he got an opportunity to be a trainer on an Immersion Workshop which took his involvement to another level. Nikki asks Ewen about his observations in the Immersion Workshop of others experiencing Liberating Structures for the first time. It confirmed for him that others could see the depth and complexity quickly. He also observed that despite seeming “harmless” in fact you are confronting the group with deep questions that are sometimes uncomfortable. He began to see the impact of some of the design choices. For example the high pace of Liberating Structures is to encourage “quick draft”, agile thinking. If the structure hasn’t given enough the first time, then it’s repeated rather than extending the time as repetition is seen as another form of change. He noticed that when workshop participants began to consider their own contexts they could see lots of applications, including in personal life. Nikki asks how using Liberating Structures has changed the way Ewen views the facilitator’s role. He sees them as a way of giving a role to everyone. While he sees the value of a central facilitator in complex environments, the long game is not to have an external facilitator, but to allow people to find solutions for themselves. He works a lot around "process literacy", giving people some tools to be able to harness the power of the process and connect their energy to that of others. He considers Liberating Structures to be “process literacy in a box” allowing everyone to be part of the solution and also be a facilitator. If a whole group is familiar with Liberating Structures he sees that they can create their own collaboration processes without the need for an external facilitator. He then describes the opportunity to “string”, “nest” and “merge” Liberating Structures which means that while the repertoire is quite small, the possibilities are endless. Ewen has been exploring some of the lesser used Liberating Structures and would like to contribute more to the global LS community on Slack. He’d like to use Liberating Structures in France, his home country where he hasn’t worked very much. He sees there’s potential as the national culture is not collaborative and he feels that Liberating Structures is a natural repertoire to encourage it, particularly as one of the creators is French. He’s also working with established partners on Immersion Workshops, and they’ve decided they will begin to offer both a standardised workshop and some more creative immersion experiences. He’s also thinking about how to use the “Critical Uncertainties” structure to look at his consultancy business. Nikki asks for Ewen’s suggestions on how listeners can get a taster. Ewen suggests https://www.liberatingstructures.com as a good starting point, and he knows that there is an established community in the UK that listeners could contact and give them a try. He suggests reading and trying structures, starting with something like 1-2-4-All or Troika Consulting. As with a lot of facilitation it’s about giving it a try with a playful, curious and open mind. You can also use the LS community on Slack. http://bit.ly/lscommunityslack (Let them know you heard about it here!) And of course, you can get in touch with Ewen through: You can find Nikki on Twitter: @NiksClicks Get in touch with us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org Twitter @Fac_Stories www.facilitationstories.com | |||
| 15 Mar 2022 | FS42 Designing the Space for Others to Learn in Conferences | 00:42:32 | |
In this episode Pilar welcomes two guests. First she talks to Adrian Ashton. They start talking about Adrian’s relationship with facilitation and how over time he’s become more involved with the IAF and hosts the North of England meetup. He talks about some of the highlights of running the group. They’ve experimented a lot with location, themes, topics and guests. Adrian highlights the variety of people that join the meetups but that it’s always a safe and relaxed space to reflect together. Topics have ranged from dating to cows to spreadsheets to props. Adrian sometimes gathers notes on the themes discussed and shares them on social media. This amplifies and captures the learning for themselves and facilitators of the future. They go on to talk about Adrian’s awards. One with current pride of place is “non employee of the week” from a Facebook community “Being Freelance Friends”. Next Pilar and Adrian talk about the IAF Conference taking place in Birmingham, UK on 13th and 14th May. The Leadership Team recognised how important the conference is to facilitators and that many have been wanting to reconnect and spend time together physically. They also realised the facilitator profession has changed significantly in recent years and that hybrid is likely to become the norm so they decided to do the conference as a hybrid. Most of the sessions will be structured to be delivered in some model of hybrid to give people a chance to decide which methods to add to their ”toolbox”. They’re still putting the programme together and are open to proposals for running sessions. While some will be hybrid, some will be all in person/ all online and some audio only as this might be something facilitators need to work with in future, if people can’t get online. Adrian makes a parting offer to facilitators to have a conversation to share stories and ideas as he recognises how valuable that has been for him in the past. Next Pilar talks to Ana Neves about “Social Now”, a conference taking place in Lisbon. Ana is a Management Consultant and Founder of KnowMan and the host and author of KMOL. Social Now is in its 9th edition, taking place on 19th and 20th May 2022. The conference came about after Ana attended a conference in Paris about using social tools inside enterprises. After talking to another attendee Ana realised there was a need to run an event to help people understand the tools and how they can be a part of the way organisations work. The format is based on a fictitious global company that experiences the “pains'' of real companies . During the conference both vendors and consultants “advise” the fictitious company. Vendors do a live demo following strict rules including no slides and no sales pitches. Participants have flags that they can raise if they feel vendors are going into sales mode - two flags and they have to go off stage. Pilar observes how this brings real accountability to the audience. She next asks how the conference has evolved and how peer learning is facilitated. Ana reflects that as a consultant she focuses on making it a really good learning experience for participants. This starts with sitting at round tables, with lots of natural light. Ana feels much of the learning happens between speakers and during breaks so they take long coffee and lunch breaks, have good food and go out for dinner together at the end of day one. They also have a live “peer assist” where Ana poses as one of the employees in the fictitious company and asks peers to share their experiences and ideas for a project her character is starting. After this there is a table exercise to collect a list of dos and don’ts for the fictitious company which the participants can take back to their own companies. Pilar reflects that the fictitious company means there are no consequences of testing creative ideas and Ana acknowledges that the participants have fed back they have felt liberated as they were able to say things that they couldn’t have done in a different format. Links: You can find Adrian by searching online - he’s on most social media channels. You can book for the IAFEnglandWales conference here: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/re-facilitation-conference-2022-registration-254755770367 You can find Ana on Twitter @ananeves and Social Now @SocialNowEvent and you can book for Social Now here: https://socialnow.org/agenda/
| |||
| 19 Jul 2022 | FS45 What we've learned from running a hybrid conference | 00:26:15 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Helene about the recent “Re-Facilitation Conference”. This was a hybrid conference with around half of the participants meeting in person and half Zooming in. The conference had three streams - one fully in person, one fully virtual and one designed to be hybrid, joined by people in the room and those joining virtually. They start by talking about the evolving team including a core group of Hilary Topp, Camilla Gordon, Cat Duncan-Rees, Adrian Ashton, Paul Kelly and Paul Brand who helped with the tech, and some who helped at various points including Caroline Jessop, Nicola Morris, Gary Austin, Lee Button and Megan Evans. They then talk about the planning process and the fact that a combination of uncertainty due to COVID and a curiosity about trying it out, led to a decision around the end of 2021 that this would be a hybrid conference. One of the first things they thought about was the theme “Refacilitation” . The conference then evolved from there with facilitators invited to populate the outline timetable with sessions. Nikki then asks about what assumptions were used as a basis for the planning. There were a lot of unknowns but there was an underlying assumption that there would be a mix of in person and online and in reality the split worked out quite even. The team also assumed that the facilitation community would support and trust them. Nikki asks Helene about her hopes and fears before it started. Key hopes were that the tech worked, that people enjoyed it, that the team didn’t get lost in organising the event at the expense of the content and that it would be a learning opportunity. The biggest fear was that the tech wouldn’t work but also that there may not be enough people to do all of the things that needed to be done. They then talk about conundrums and how they were addressed. Alongside numbers and the tech a few extra things came up, which included that Ukrainian facilitators were offered places free of charge but it wasn’t possible to offer a translator. Also creating a balance of content on the timetable, particularly given the three streams. The main way to resolve these was through a lot of getting together and exchanging ideas. The people resources and many months of planning time were important. Helene then talks about her experience of the conference which was quite hectic. A key challenge was not being able to get into the room until the morning of the event. Paul Brand took the lead on the tech set up and meanwhile Cat set up the alternative room. She reflects that the event felt a bit of whirlwind. Nikki asks what Helene learned from the process. She says that with the time available and creativity, you don’t need to have an expensive tech company and a DIY route can work. The number of people needed is a key learning point as there are so many different roles to fill. Also, Helene acknowledges that sometimes it’s worth just going for it and taking a risk. Finally she reflects on the strength leadership team and the generosity and supportiveness of the facilitation community. Feedback has been largely positive aside from a couple of very specific points such as whether to spotlight speakers on Zoom (the jury’s out), and that some music for the people on Zoom while there were organising activities in the room. The shared WhatsApp group and Miro Board were positively received. Nikki reflects that the dedicated three stream approach made it feel balanced and that there was an even attention paid to each part of the audience. It was useful that two of the leadership team joined online and were able to provide reminders if the thinking was too much from an in person point of view. The only downside of the three streams was that participants couldn’t go to everything! Some of the “in person” participants deliberately joined online sessions to have the hybrid experience. Nikki then asks about future plans and if hybrid is the way forward. Helene reflects there will definitely be another conference but there hasn’t been a conversation as to whether it will be a hybrid. It may depend on the times we’re in and the confidence and preferences of the community but with the added consideration of the resource intensity, although there is now a “blueprint”. Helene’s closing thought is that leaving plenty of time to plan is the key learning. Links All of the detailed information on the IAF England and Wales chapter is at https://facilitationstories.com/ Follow the chapter on Twitter @IAFEnglandWales and connect with Helene and Nikki @HeleneJewell and @NiksClicks
| |||
| 08 Jun 2020 | FS19 From Facilitating through Theatre to the Online Space | 00:36:10 | |
Helene interviews Pilar Orti from Virtual not Distant, creator and co-host of this IAF E&W podcast, Facilitator and trainer specialising in online collaborative processes, podcaster, author and voiceover artist (she is the voice of Xuli on the Go Jetters). Pilar starts by recounting her facilitation journey which started with the theatre company that she ran for 10 years. She went to a conference where Toby Wiltshire (from the Trestle mask company) was talking about using theatre in corporate training. This eventually led her to do her first away day using theatre exercises as a facilitation tool. She eventually moved away from this, finding it hard to describe what she did and getting people to take the “drama” seriously and understand what it was really about. She describes how she started to look more into organisational behaviour theory and find out how she could run workshops on leadership and change. She started to work on-line as she was travelling a lot, initially running some webinars which she loved. She discovered a gap when talking about leadership in the virtual space. She talks about how if you have facilitation skills it is easy to transfer this on-line, it is just about changing medium and mindset. As her specialism is training managers of remote teams and helping teams communicate online her focus is about helping them learn about tools to communicate with each other in non- real time (rather than running online facilitated sessions). The tools she spends a lot of time working with are asynchronous tools for clients, rather than tools for online facilitation where she prefers to keep it simple (and talks about capturing ideas with Linoit and Google docs). She draws on her background in theatre to think about what can be done with an empty space, rather than necessarily relying on too many tools. She talks about the legacy of the way online meetings have been run in the past and how there is a feeling of the need to be entertaining people and the difference between entertaining people and engaging them. Pilar reminds us that collaboration doesn’t only happen in real time and that it is important to remember asynchronous communication too. Different teams will have preferences as to how much they communicate in real time and non- real time and this is an element to consider. She also reminds us that a lot of communication is text based but asynchronous audio or video is another option. As a starting point facilitators could acknowledge that there two modes (asynchronous and synchronous working), know where they can add most value and what they are most comfortable with. Embracing an asynchronous way of communicating will help facilitators to have more of a conversation with the client before the meeting or workshop and get closer to the participants before the event. Pilar describes and example of collaborative consultancy helping a small company of coaches and how she helped them set up asynchronous ways of communicating and create an ecosystem. This started with a real time meeting and involved a lot of role modelling. She used Retrium as a wrap up retrospective tool. Helene ends the conversation by asking Pilar about her role as the voice of Xuli in Gojetters and finds out that there is a link to facilitation there too. You can contact Pilar at Virtual not Distant or on Twitter on @pilarorti and Helene @helenejewell Let us know you're listening! Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; @Fac_stories use #iafpodcast Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio | |||
| 11 Jul 2023 | FS57 Open Source Facilitation with Perle Laouenan-Catchpole | 00:16:18 | |
In today's episode, Nikki talks to Perle Laouenan-Catchpole, an Amsterdam-based facilitator and experienced designer. Perle shares the origins of Perle's award-winning, open-source workshop that aids individuals in identifying their personal climate action. Perle discusses the importance of open source in facilitation work and the impact it has on personal growth, relationship-building and work perception. She firmly believes in the need for collaborative and shared resources in addressing pressing issues like climate change. T he discussion also touches on different platforms for sharing open-source material and how they can be leveraged by other facilitators. Links: Website https://helloperle.com/ Perle's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/perlelc/ Session Lab Template https://www.sessionlab.com/templates/find-your-climate-sweet-spot/ Nikki's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/
NIKKI Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Nikki Wilson and my guest today is Perle Laouenan-Catchpole. Welcome Perle. For listeners that don't know you, could you start by telling us a little bit more about you and your work? PERLE Yeah, absolutely. So, I am Perle. I'm a workshop facilitator, moderator, experienced designer and aspiring spoken word artist. It's something I have been pushing myself out of my comfort zone to do for a while now. And I'm based in Amsterdam. I was actually born and bred in Cornwall, so you'll notice a very British accent on me, and I've been living in Amsterdam for the past twelve years and have the great joy of co-parenting a five year old daughter. And yeah, that's about me. NIKKI Excellent. And so the inspiration for this episode came from a post you made on LinkedIn saying that you'd won a thing for a workshop you've designed. So, first of all, could you tell us a little bit more about what you won, and how that came about? PERLE Yeah, absolutely. Well, to give you a little bit more context about my work, so I went freelance in January and I was working as a full time facilitator before that. And over the past couple of years I really recognized that my skill as a facilitator is facilitating large groups online and that opportunity doesn't come along very often. So I started seeking out communities that could use my skills and landed on a community called Work on Climate, which is a 20,000 strong community of individuals trying to find climate work in climate or transition their roles into climate work. And I facilitated a workshop for them using Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson's Ven diagram. That basically similar to Ikigai, which is the Japanese concept for finding purpose, helps you identify your personal climate action. So that workshop, 200 and something people turned up for it and it was incredible. And the workshop design, I then submitted to a contest hosted by Session Lab, which is a facilitators platform, and then won in one of the categories. And I was just really happy to see that workshop then become an open source template for other people to use. So that's how I ended up writing a post on LinkedIn saying I want a thing. NIKKI Well, first of all, congratulations Perle, that's great news and you just touched on it there. But one of the things that had really caught my eye about that post was that you said that you'd made it into an open source template. So I wondered if you could tell us a bit more about how open source features in your facilitation work. PERLE Yeah, absolutely. And I'd say I kind of categorise it in two ways, because as a facilitator and experienced designer, I rely hugely on open source materials. I'm constantly seeking new ways of doing things, new concepts, new exercises. So I'm leaning on other people's open source material all the time - and then that then encourages me and it inspires me to do the same. And I actually believe that facilitation is an abundant skill set. We need more Facilitators in the world. We need it in our organizations, in our teams. And I fundamentally believe that if we can support one another to grow those tools, that mindset, that approach in our work, then the world is better for it. And yeah, I just believe there's enough work for all of us. So why keep my skills, my knowledge, my understanding of how to facilitate to myself, if we can kind of trigger other people to do more with their work too, especially when it comes to climate? NIKKI Excellent. You've talked a little bit about kind of drawing from other people's work as a key tool for yourself. But how did you first start working in a way where you were sharing more of this information? And how do you go about that? PERLE Yeah, I feel like that it kind of reinforces some of my key values as just a human being, where I aspire to be and try to be open and kind and authentic anyway. And then I have had the pleasure to work for many organisations and companies that do the same. So they either are open to partnering with lots of different partners to achieve their goals or providing services that increase access to global needs such as health care and education. So in a way, my value system makes me seek out organisations or types of work that allow me to be an open source minded person, I guess. NIKKI So thinking a bit more about what impact opening up and sharing your own work has had on you, could you tell us a little bit more about that? How has it affected how your work is perceived or the relationships you build, those kind of things? PERLE So I truly believe that if you're open with your work and your approach to work and you are authentic in that process, then you attract the same types of people and opportunities back. And I also have a fundamental belief that we are able to grow with each other. I'm not somebody who works very well individually. I really work better when someone else is able to spark my energy, grow my energy, add to my ideas, add to my body of work. And I know that I am valuable for other people in that way. So if we kind of can approach facilitation with that kind of mindset, then we only make it better for people receiving that facilitation. So yeah, it's just a belief system, I guess. And I'm feeling the benefits of it because I meet incredible people, I work with incredible people and I do a job I love. NIKKI And so, I mean, personally, I'm really a convert to the benefits of open. Now, I was before this conversation, but you've even convinced me more. But I think when I first started to become more aware of this way of working, it felt a bit counterintuitive. And you've said that you yourself have more recently gone freelance. And I think there was a sort of mindset around, if I give too much away, how will I justify charging for the things that I do want to? And also always being aware of things like risk of copyright and ownership. And for any listeners that are kind of grappling with some of those ideas, even if they've heard about the benefits from you, what would you say to them to kind of reassure them or convince them to give it a try? PERLE Yeah, I actually want to just first acknowledge that it's a very real feeling, right? Because it took me a second to press that button and submit my template to be open source, because in the end, well, anyway, that is a free workshop that I'm offering so a couple of hundred people could join it without any monetary benefit to me. So I was already making that choice for it to be open source. And yeah, it's a workshop that I could have monetized. But I also believe there's different types of level of my work that I can monetize and there's other types of work that I can open out to people to learn myself, learn what works, what doesn't, and test new concepts, test new ideas. And so I use often my free workshops or my open workshops as testing grounds. And that enables me to get stronger as a facilitator, hone my skills. So I won't provide all workshops open source or all templates open source, because in the end, I need to also grow my paid work, my clients, I also want to be able to provide my clients with tailored solutions that work for them. And some of it can work for other organisations, and I will share the bits that could. So in a way, it's not one or the other, it's about the gradient and just giving parts of you or parts of your thinking or your work out into the world so that you can spread a certain message or spread a certain need that the world needs. NIKKI Okay, and you mentioned that the workshop that you won this award for was shared on Sessionlab. So is that the main place that you might open out workshops and designs, or are there other places that you also share content? PERLE Yeah, Session Lab is the first. Honestly, there are a few different platforms that I'm looking at to expand my work. One of my main clients, Limelights, that I work for quite a lot as a freelance facilitator, they have a couple of Miro templates that are available really around Sprint methodology, but also using Kotter's Eight Steps for Change in sustainability teams. So in a way, there's many different avenues that work can be shared. And as facilitators, we should be looking for these platforms to put our ways of working out there. NIKKI And so if anyone is listening and they're interested in finding out more about open source and how it could apply to their facilitation, what would you recommend as kind of sources of information/first steps? PERLE Yeah, well, I feel like there's obvious spaces to look for. So in Miro, Mural, there's so much abundance of resources that are available for facilitators. And then, of course, Session Lab is my daily go to. It's a gold mine of resources. The library is free, it's open, it can be used by anyone NIKKI Okay. And for all those places that you mentioned, is it possible for other facilitators to share their work on those places as well? Just to confirm, apart from Chat GPT obviously. PERLE Yeah, of course. Yeah, Miro, for sure. And actually, it triggers me, Nikki, to talk about Slack because there are so many Slack communities, Leapers, which is a freelance network, and then Freelancers Get Done. And that actually is a Slack community that has a facilitation bench and facilitation skills channel. And those channels are really great sources of ideas, but also just going, hey, I have 100 people in this workshop, two days, any inspiration of how I could get them from A to B or working on this challenge? And there are so many incredible kind of minds within minutes jumping on your challenge and helping you to come up with ideas. NIKKI Okay, there's so many different suggestions there Perle, so hopefully everyone's got a notebook, but we’ll include them In the show notes as well. And so we had a quick sort of message exchange on LinkedIn after your post and you said that you felt that open source was where it's at, particularly around climate. And what is it specifically around climate that you think makes this a particularly important approach? PERLE The urgency, fundamentally the urgency. We need fundamental change and action and we need it fast. And the more we do things, do things together, open out... I got the workshop idea based on Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson's open Source Ven diagram that she created that helps people find their climate action. Based on that work, I am able to create a workshop on it. And based on that, 200 people joined. And that's how movements start, that's how movements spread, start, and fundamentally, when it comes to climate, we know that we have to keep acting and keep acting fast. So, yeah, fundamentally, open source is exactly where we should be, the kind of mindset we should be approaching with climate. And there's amazing case studies and examples of open source climate actions that are happening out there in the world and it's inspiring to see how many people are motivated to put their time and effort and their skills to solving world problems. NIKKI No, definitely with that in mind and all that we've talked about. I know myself that you're always working on things because I see them popping up, as I said, particularly through LinkedIn. But have you got anything in the pipeline that you're working on or that you want other listeners to know about that you know others are working on? Is there anything we should be looking out for? PERLE Yeah, so I'm working on quite a few open workshops with the Work on Climate community. So they're popping up every month or two and you can basically just follow me on LinkedIn and you will see the work. I feel like we've got summer approaching, things are a little bit quiet, so, yeah, I'm really focusing on testing concepts and doing that with communities like Work on Climate. NIKKI Great, well, I think it sounds like you're going to be keeping yourself busy in the slowdown over summer. So if any of the listeners want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that? PERLE For sure, LinkedIn, my name will be spelled out for you in the show notes. I'm sure it's not an easy one. And then I also have a website that you can drop me a line on which is And yeah, I'm very much looking forward to hearing from you. NIKKI Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Perle. It's been really good to talk to you this afternoon, and I hope you can keep spreading and sharing the open message and that some of the other facilitators listening kind of had their interest sparked in learning a bit more about this. Because I think totally agree with what you've said about kind of spreading the word, spreading the resources. It's so important. Thank you. PERLE Thank you, Nikki.
| |||
| 16 Dec 2019 | FS06 Learning from Your Network and the Unexpected with Gary Austin and friends | 00:29:08 | |
In this episode, Pilar talks to Gary Austin about what learning opportunities he's found during his 30 years as a facilitator. Susannah Raffe, @SusannahRaffe https://www.meetup.com/IAF-South-West-England-facilitators-and-friends/events/266488389/ Peter Nelson https://www.meetup.com/IAF-North-of-England-facilitators-and-friends/events/266488388/ Hilary Topp, @HTFacilitation https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Midlands-East-of-England-facilitators-friends/events/266488390/ Megan Evans @megan_evans1 https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Wales-facilitators-and-friends/events/266488391/ Also check out what some of our other friends are doing: https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Ireland-facilitators-and-friends/events/266488392/ https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Scotland-facilitators-and-friends/events/266488393/ Gary describes the different facilitator titles that he's earned (and might earn at some point) from the IAF. Link to full meeting. https://youtu.be/yWLIfIDp5_8 Conversation with Gary Austin
Gary has looked for those times when he can find out what other facilitators are doing, and attend those kinds of sessions that don't always seem relevant. He tells us about a couple of times that unexpectedly led to great learning experiences. Send your audio and feedback to #facilitation #IAFmeetup #iafpodcast
| |||
| 25 Mar 2025 | FS 76 Chapter Chat with Andrew Spiteri EME Regional Director | 00:39:18 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Andrew Spiteri, Regional Director of the IAF Europe and Middle East Region. Andrew tells Helene about himself as a facilitator, the kind of work he does and his background with IAF. He became regional director at the start of the year and shares a bit about the work he has been involved in so far, his roles and responsibilities as director, and what he would like to see in future for the region and beyond. He tells us about the regional conference in Romania in November 2025 and about what he most loves about facilitation. You can contact Andrew at: rep.europe@iaf-world.org And Helene at helene@jewellfacilitation.com To contact the podcast team: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org | |||
| 17 Jan 2023 | FS51 Exploring play in climate conversations with Lucy Hawthorne | 00:31:57 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Lucy Hawthorne who for the past year has been experimenting with bringing playfulness to conversations about climate. Lucy is a facilitator by trade and an environmental campaigner by background and has been exploring the link between playfulness and climate action for around five years. In the latter stages of her campaigning work, Lucy was at her most successful, including involvement in the ban on fracking in the UK, but was also at her most jaded. She was becoming adept at political maneuvering but not really shifting people’s hearts and minds, and began to think about how to engage people more deeply in this important subject. As she moved into facilitation she began to look for the antidote to the lack of deep engagement and realised that people were being scared into action, but crushed into apathy. Maybe plan was the antidote. Lucy has spent a lot of time thinking about what play means and how it is both a set of tools and a mindset. The project hasn’t developed in quite the way Lucy expected but the end point is roughly where she was expecting. Initially Lucy thought this might be like a research mission looking at different elements of play and climate, systematically interviewing people and writing up findings, and at the end of the year, she’d have a pseudo evidence-base on the benefits of play in climate action. But being playful and iterative about the process, Lucy has found other ways forward, asking the same questions but being less methodical about recording the evidence and dived quicker into action, prototyping and testing the concepts and principles out with people. Lucy uses Lego a lot in this work as it has a low barrier for entry. It’s familiar for people and Lucy describes it as the “trojan horse”, getting people in as they think it’s fun and whacky but then having conversations that are fun but also serious and at times quite profound. She is also interested in play more generally, and talks about techniques such as improv, drama and art as different mechanisms of playfulness. Lucy is particularly interested in how to get people involved in a conversation that they generally avoid, or avoid having as deeply as they could do. Lucy tries to use tools that make it easy to get started. Nikki asks Lucy what prompted her to put the ideas into action. Lucy feels this isn’t really a choice: climate action is urgent and theory isn’t very useful, there’s a need to give things a go and iterate to see what works. It’s also about Lucy embodying in her practice as a facilitator, the things she’s talking to other people about. For Lucy, playfulness is about curiosity, experimentation and going with the flow which is counter to her experience as a campaigner. She’s pushed herself to give things a go, to run events and have conversttions with people that previously would have terrified her- and counting that as playfulness. They move on to talk about how Lucy has used a prototyping approach. Her first event posed the question “How playful is the climate movement?”, and this helped set up different avenues of enquiry for Lucy, both on how people relate with climate change but also how they relate with play as adults. She’s found a network of people who’ve helped to “chew the process through”. She then started iterating workshops, online and in person, using Lego Serious Play for different audiences, and looking at different aspects such as emotions and blockers to action She’s also done in-house company events and lectures, talking about principles around play and how it might relate to climate action. Nikki asks about the challenges and opportunities of using a physical medium such as Lego both on- and off-line. Lucy has found the kinds of conversations people have had have been different. Face to face conversations have generally catalysed a sense of connection, but because online is slightly more independent, people have noted a high level of quiet reflection. Lucy also notes that with the online work has allowed the reach of the work to be much wider, involving participants globally. Lucy talks about some of the logistical challenges, using second hand lego as far as possible and finding ways to incentivise people to return it. It’s also a challenge to work on in 2023 as she’s keen to make this accessible to people whether or not they have Lego at home, wherever they are in the world. Lucy has enjoyed the online sessions but also feels there’s nothing like being in a room with a table full of toys. It’s been a rich year of learning for Lucy, mainly that there is “just something about play” and the word “play” that is different to parallel words. Lucy’s convinced that if she changed the wording it wouldn’t be as effective. She’s found it seems to appeal more to women and this is something she wants to unpick further. She’s also found these freeing, playful techniques are most effective when talking about the difficult emotions associated with climate change, and “moments of stuckness”. From this learning she now understands her mission to be how to make it safe, light and fun to talk about climate change, so that people can engage more deeply, honestly and creatively with the subject. Lucy and Nikki do a live demonstration of some mini Lego Serious Play exercises building on the metaphors that are the basis for Lego Serious Play. Lucy is curious to continue exploring her role in how to support people to make faster progress and move into more radical action. Lucy is ready to launch Climate Play as an organisation in its own right and will now be diving deeply into this work, particularly helping businesses to solve climate blockers and how to partner with other people working to the same ends and help them increase the impact of their work. There will be a full series of events, more in-house workshops and exploring the broader principles of what it means to have a playful mindset. Links: To find out more about the Climate Play project: https://www.climateplay.org/ To attend future events: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/o/lucy-hawthorne-founderfacilitator-climate-play-29888274577 LinkedIn for Lucy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucyhawthorne Nikki on Twitter: @NiksClicks | |||
| 15 Dec 2020 | FS27 Facilitation for Online Celebrations | 00:37:20 | |
Helene Jewell hosts this episode about the skill of online facilitation and the importance of Facilitation to make your celebrations go with (or without) a pop! We also have two voices from our virtual coffee meet-ups: Gordon Mullan and Jane Mitchell share their thoughts about online facilitation following the IAF conference in October. And Helene introduces the new England and Wales IAF Board, and thanks the outgoing Chair and Treasurer! Two Twitter handles for the coffee inserts: @gordonmullan and @janemitchcomms Helene’s first guest for this episode is Claire Mays. Claire has a background in facilitating health promotion and is has recently re-engaged with “the facilitator in her” during lockdown – lots of opportunity that wouldn’t have had if not for the pandemic! Since April – Claire has been part of an online facilitated programme that has engaged over 200 people as part of the Barts NHS Acute Trust shielding online programme. Barts Shielding Community was started to support those members of the Barts NHS Acute Trust who had to shield due to Covid 19 including Claire herself. Claire talks about the core group that helped to determine how to support shielders and reconnected with and updated her own facilitation skills to develop what was to become a lifeline to the many people defined as extremely clinically vulnerable. They used a liberating structures approach to create an online supportive community, with space for human-to-human connection that brought together, consultants, administrators, nurses, therapists and more. Their shared experience; all people who had to shield due to Covid19 and who worked at Barts. As we approach Christmas, a time of parties and celebration often with colleagues, Claire recognises the importance of creating an online holiday celebration, and the challenges of ensuring that it is inclusive and accessible to everyone who wants to participate, and how key the role of facilitation is in ensuring that this happens! Member of the Barts Shielding Community have a great experience to look forward to – that will include quizzes, costumes, cookie decorating and more. But they are not naïve to the challenge of working to achieve this online with such a diverse range of people, but feel what they have created with the support of expert facilitators will be an inclusive and memorable experience. Claire is also putting these skills to excellent use elsewhere and is helping to facilitate 2 further Christmas gatherings including an online Christmas menopause café using the ‘spaces for listening’ method. Claire’s Top Tips for people organising celebrations online keep it simple, fun and accessible, have a clear structure because it’s very easy for people to get lost online. Helene’s second guest Andre is the Cofounder of People Storming who specialise in facilitating and coaching organisational development. Helene first asks Andre about the challenge of organising a 2 day retreat online that would normally be a real retreat in Colorado involving snowboarding and other physical activities. Andre talks about the importance of getting to know the team and organisation and how they co-designed a structure for an online retreat including space for people to design their own personal retreat experience, and if that wasn’t challenging enough across a 3 hour timezone! Andre talks about how they built in structured time, a web platform to ensure an accessible and personalised experience, the range of asynchronous activities; using Mural, pre-recording stories and experiences that other people could walk through, worksheets and activities; that were included, and the importance of recognising that peoples lives were carrying on as normal around them, work, family etc. Andre outlines some of the challenges and advantages, the biggest challenge being the amount of time and energy the planning took to make the retreat run smoothly and seemingly effortlessly for participants, and the obvious advantage of cost including sending out cocktail kits and materials. One surprising advantage was how the online retreat felt more inclusive due to the active facilitation layer – as opposed to a more traditional retreat. Andre acknowledges that the skill of a good facilitator is to make what they do look effortless, something that is hugely undervalued generally! Online this went to a whole new level of active orchestration with detailed cue sheets and 3-4 times more time invested in planning that meant the time online was more than just hanging out together and was actually more productive than a real world retreat. Andres key learning points; while there is a cost advantage from a facilitated perspective it’s not a ‘cheap’ option in terms of time. And for this experience to work smoothly they invested in building a website specifically for the retreat to ensure accessibility! Helene ends by asking Andre what learning he will take from online back to face to face. Andre talks about the challenge of physical distance making everything less personal, and how finding space to be themselves as facilitators and immersing themselves into the team and their Slack space meant the relationships had formed prior to the event. A challenge to take forward is how to create the sense of being part of the team by the time we start real world events not by the time we finish! And finally Helene invites Andre to share his Top Tip; the rhythm of what you do is important – keep it moving! Trust your instinct to keep people engaged! Even if it’s 5 minutes of quiet time in the middle of a party! Pace and variation. Oh and did he mention the word party! Lots of space for connection and celebration! Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast | |||
| 17 Sep 2024 | FS71 Chapter Chat with Jan Lelie IAF Netherlands | 00:33:53 | |
This episode is one of our quarterly “Chapter Chats” where Helene and Nikki talk to a member of the leadership team from another IAF Chapter. Today’s guest is Jan Lelie, founder of IAF Netherlands. Outside their IAF role Jan is a facilitator with a background in experimental physics. Key topics from the conversation include:
“you have to practice what you preach. When I go to an IAF conference, I will do a workshop of myself and I also work with other facilitators to see and to learn from each other”
“ we wanted to have a certification process, and at that time, it was only in English… ” we were the first organization which offered certification in their mother tongue.”
“We wanted to know, where did you make the difference? What was the turning point?” “a suggestion of one of our facilitators that we should have a kind of year book”
A full transcript is below. Links Today’s Chapter https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/netherlands
Today’s guest: Contact Jan by email IAF-netherlands@kpnmail.nl
To find out more about the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript H.J Hello and welcome to facilitation stories, the community podcast brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. I'm Helene Jewell.
N.W And I'm Nikki Wilson.
H.J And this episode is one of our quarterly chapter chats, where we talk to people leading other chapters in the IAF global community. We ask them about how they see the status of facilitation where they are, and the history, priorities, current projects and aspirations for their chapter. Today, we will be talking to Jan Lelie, facilitator and founder of IAF Netherlands.
N.W So welcome Jan. So to start off with, could you tell us a little more about yourself and the work that you do Jan?
J.L Yes, of course. Well, I facilitate, and I said, I've always facilitated. I worked for six weeks as a consultant in 1984 and then decided that it was not for me, and that any situation requires all the participants to be in the same room, in the same place, and if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And find out actually what the problem is about. So I studied physics, experimental physics, and there I learned that the definition of the problem is part of the problem. So in most of the situations, people have a, how shall I say, the rudimentary idea of their problem, and then they start to implement a solution. And when the solution doesn't work, the solution actually becomes a problem. So you're asked to get a solution implemented which is not the solution to a problem, so it will never work. And I started out in IT, information technology and communications, and there, often IT is not a problem, it's a solution that doesn't work.
H.J And so you have been part of the IAF for nearly 30 years, I think. How have you seen the practice of facilitation and the role of facilitators change in that time?
J.L Well, first of all, I think that everybody facilitates. It's like everybody communicates. So facilitation, in my experience, is about making connections. It's how you connect with people, how your relationship works, and from there, and everybody connects with each other, only like with communication, nobody has been trained into effective communication and in effective facilitation. So most people work from an expert position, like a consultant or a trainer or even a moderator, and facilitation, in my opinion, is a different paradigm, a different way of dealing with relationships, and the only way to progress is to to learn from each other in working as a facilitator and facilitating. So that was one of the reasons I went to an IAF conference in London in the end of the 1990s which was organized by the IAF, and because we had a computerized brainstorming solution, we wanted to show and also I already had organized a group of what we call moderators, a network of moderators. And then I learned that what I was doing was called facilitation.
H.J It's interesting. I think a lot of people have said that, that they, they didn't necessarily call it facilitation, or call themselves facilitators. They sort of discovered by accident that there was a name for it.
J.L I studied biophysics, and I used to call it catalysation. And the catalysation is what most of all biological systems rely on, catalysation. And catalysation, strangely enough, means breaking the connection. So facilitation means making, to make. And Li is a very ancient word which we can recognize in the word line. And line of Li is connection. So catalysation is breaking the connection. And in my way of facilitation, I'm always being aware of how to end the relationship, how to stop the relationship. I always facilitate with the end in mind, and that's what the catalyst does. The catalyst takes one molecule and another molecule, and tries to connect them, and then steps out of it and unchanged.
N.W And how learned over that time, and if you, if you kind of recognize that that original conference, that what you were doing was, was facilitation, what kind of other things have you picked up through being engaged with other facilitators over that time?
J.L What I do is practice makes perfect. So you have to practice what you preach. When I go to an IAF conference, I will do a workshop of myself and I also work with other facilitators to see and to learn from each other. Nowadays, at the conference we took about a quarter of an hour after a session, during IAF conference, to reflect on the session itself. What went well? What did you do? What can you do differently? And I think that is basically how I work. So it's still, I'm still doing training and courses, and then also what we learn together. I always say I cannot teach you anything. I can only facilitate your learning. And that's how I approach facilitation. Also, I try to be a facilitator’s facilitator. This might sound strange, but I will say the universe is my teacher. So the universe is very kind, and they offer you lessons. And the problem is that you, as I said, you cannot see the lesson until it appears, and then it's always in the resistance. So when you feel resistance against something, it's probably something you need to learn. And that is also what makes facilitation for most people very, I shall say, difficult or awkward, is that you have to deal with the resistance of a group or the situation, and let it be, not try to solve anything, but just like to see how it works out. If you see what I mean. Like I said, the universe doesn't have an agenda. So sometimes the lesson comes too early. Then you learn something, and you think, okay, thank you. And then sometimes the lesson comes too late. So then after two or three years, you realize, okay, this session, I happen to speak to a colleague facilitator yesterday, and she has problem in managing her team. And she said, it's difficult. And then I asked, What kind of difficulty? Is it difficulty? And then we remember suddenly a session we did, like 4, 5 years ago, what was a very simple technique by a Korean facilitator who I've invited of making bracelets of your, of what you find difficulty, and then put them on your arms and on your legs, or wherever you feel the difficulties, and then sit with them for some times, and then have a conversation with others who are also sitting with their difficulties and dealing with that. And that's where I work. You know, you get this, this method or this tool, and then you think, okay, just the opportunity will arise.
N.W Oh, excellent. I love that idea of sort of collecting things that you might use in the future, but not necessarily knowing where they will, where the need for them will emerge. I think that's probably something that a lot of us do, but not always consciously. So that, I love that example. It's great.
H.J I just want to think a bit or ask a bit more about that, the whole sort of community element, I suppose. And thinking about IAF and the IAF Netherlands and ask a little bit more about that. So you're current and past chair of IAF Netherlands, but prior to that, you were IAF Benelux. Can you tell us a little bit about how the chapter was established?
J.L Yes, in the, well in 1990s I met John and Maureen Jenkins. And Maureen had been, or was, was becoming Chair of IAF world, and they happened to work in the Netherlands, and they organized a conference in Amersfoort here in the Netherlands, and I joined the conference together with some colleagues. And during the conference, we decided that we should have a Dutch network of facilitators, and we started to create a foundation called IAF Benelux. And it was in a time when IAF didn't have any chapters, it was just IAF world, and you became part of what, in my opinion, was an American organization, and then we, well, we founded this, this, this network, and we organized events. I think the most important thing is what we did is local events,and a yearly conference and also I went to the to European conferences. But the main thing for most Dutch people is they like to work in Dutch. And that is the other thing we organized from the IAF Benelux, we wanted to have a certification process, and at that time, it was only in English, but as that's been established by Dutchman, and there were some Dutch speaking assessors. We use the English process to have people certified in in Dutch and here in the Netherlands, we were the first organization which offered certification in their mother tongue.
H.J Um, and that's for the Certified Professional facilitator accreditation
J.L Yes, and I think we had about 100 or so certified facilitators here in the Netherlands at some time, because we did it together with the yearly conference, we had a certification event, and also we had separate certification event. At a certain time I think we had two every year. And beside that, we organized events, like I said, I like to meet other facilitators and to work together and to explore our way of working. And John and Maureen at that time, were very, as I said, supportive of the, of it. I think Maureen is one of the best facilitators in the world. He's one of a kind. So, and that's what worked for a couple of years, six or seven, eight years. And then IAF organized itself into chapter structures, and we had to become an association. So we, we terminated the foundation and became IAF Netherlands and for again, about, I think, 7,8,9 years. But the problem I always said with associations is that you have all these things about membership, and I think that association is not the best fit for a network of facilitators, because it creates expectations about what IAF does. So people usually ask me, okay, what is IAF going to do for me? And I said, Well, nothing. I'm not your mother. You have to facilitate yourself. We're here to facilitate you. But people kind of expect us to do things for them, and I was resisted that so, but I must say, I'm an exception. So most of my fellow board members, they were very kind, and they organized things, and they made memberships at everything. And I'm not that good in organizing things, you know.
H.J I guess that's true of lots of people, though, isn't it? So some people are natural organizers, and some people just want to go and do whatever the facilitation or the, you know, take part in things. And sounds like a, it's a good job that you have that mix in the chapter.
J.L Yeah, and I also said I'm the worst chair in the world, you know, because I facilitate, I don't share anything. So, but in the end, because the problem with a board is, in my opinion, that you shouldn't have people in the board for eternity. So we made the decision that you could only be two times three years in the board, and then you have to leave the board. So gradually the board of the IAF changed, and then many of the board members became frustrated, because when you organize a conference, not many people show up. I think that is only natural with facilitation, because it's the diversity of facilitators is too wide to have a common ground. That may sound strange, but in my opinion, we don't have a common ground. We don't have anything in common except that we call ourselves facilitators, and that is not enough to have a professional association. I personally always say a facilitation is not a profession, it's a calling.
N.W And so I mean, I suppose, bearing that in mind, despite some of the challenges of finding some common ground, you have hosted 12 conferences, I think, over the past sort of 30 years, while you've been involved. So what have been some of the topics or themes that the conferences have been about and that you've brought together people around?
J.L Well, usually, I collect a small group of people, and we have a conversation about, or a facilitated meeting about what, what could be the theme of the conference. So we did a conference of, do, do the nothing, or in, in the Dao, it's called the way Wu wei. So it's, it's like do nothing, and it's very difficult for facilitators not to intervene, but sometimes it's very important not to intervene, so be there and be aware of what happens, and notice that you should let things go as they were, and only wait until you are invited to intervene. So we did a conference about that. We did a conference of sedators carries on. So I think it's in England it's a set of movies, carry on movies.
N.W Yeah, quite a different facilitation, I think in my memory, but yes.
J.L No, but it's also what we do. You know, you just carry on.
N.W yeah, too true.
J.L and also like things that like, Oh, what do you do when you don't know what to do? This is also an interesting theme. And we also did a thing on facilitating with the brain in mind. So at that time, about 10, 15 years ago, a brain facilitation was coming up. So I just invited facili, we just invited facilitators to have a meeting together, so and bring the knowledge or the experience together. And then we also did something about like serious facilitation, which is also very funny, facilitation, seriously.
H.J It sounds like there's definitely a bit of a theme just listening to you talk around facilitators needing to sort of step back a bit and not get too stuck in. And I do recognize that that kind of feeling, that sometimes you feel as a facilitator, that you need to do something.
J.L The other issue with facilitation is that you always have to work from a perspective and a meet up perspective. You have to be aware of your awareness. So you have to be aware of the metaphor which is being used. So people talk in metaphors, but you have to take the metaphor literally and not figuratively, and that is, and that is very hard to do, to see yourself in a situation and be aware of your situation and at the same time, how should I say, control your behavior or or inhibit that's also a thing which is important, that you are inhibited. In my opinion, I will say that your timing is more important than your method. So we are also always focused on to methods and techniques which are important. You know, you I know about every method and technique in the world, but at the same time, the timing is more important so you can use the wrong method and still have the right timing and get the results. Where, if you have a good methods, but your timing is wrong, then it won't work. And then people start to think, Okay, I should know this method better, but now it's not in the method its in your timing. And in my interventions, I always try ,and then when we do is also about when we're training, to be late in your intervention, a bit laid back so you can see your intervention coming, at least I can do it, and then I say, Okay, let's wait for some time and see if I'm right. You have to be aware of your assumptions. Yeah, that's it. And that's also in physics, you know, that's what I'm mean, to be, to be aware of your assumptions about what is needed and first test your assumptions before you act on it. That's, I think, how you should define your meta perspective. So whatever happens in a group, you make an assumption, okay, I think they are stuck. And then you say, okay, What sign do I have that they are stuck? Okay, well, they're quarreling, yeah, but quarreling doesn't mean they are stuck. It can also be very constructive. You know, one of the times as an example, I was a co facilitator with a facilitator, and people only in a group were disagreeing with each other, and they asked me, What should we do? I said, Well, just let the disagreement continue. Disagreement is good, and only when you're called in to, to facilitate, then you come as a facilitator. And and this is very hard to do, because you want to keep, to care for the group. Do you want to people to be constructive and to have people sometimes they have to disagree with each other. And only when you're asked to intervene, you intervene.
N.W Yes, I think there's something really interesting there about, as you said, the timing, and kind of maybe leaving it a little bit longer than you'd be tempted to, just because sometimes then something more emerges that you might not have assumed would happen. And, yeah, really interesting.
H.J Okay, thinking of time and moving on, just so we make use of the time we have. I just, I wanted to ask a little bit about the book that you co wrote, co authored. And this was, I think, one of the initiatives of your chapter, the IAF Netherlands chapter, and it was called diverging conversations through facilitation. And I think it's got 24 different case studies from different facilitators. And I just really wanted to find out a little bit more about that.
J.L It was actually a suggestion of one of our facilitators that we should have a kind of year book. So every year a book about facilitation. And so I invited a group of facilitators to brainstorm about it, and I asked them to bring one of their favorite books, one book that inspired them. And then everybody introduces themselves using their book they brought. And then we looked at the qualities of the book, and then we make a list of the qualities about the book on facilitation, and then it was, they came off. So okay, we should have concrete cases about what you do as a facilitator, where you make the difference. It should have a strict format of four pages with two pictures, but not use the actual pictures, which make them into a line drawing, because you can read line drawings easier than pictures. And also they don't age. So pictures age, and then it should have a, shall I say, the preface, and a reflection on the on the book, and, and then we made this the chapters like, Okay, what did the client say? What was your situation? what was the core question? What did you do as a facilitator? And then away, actually, where did you make the difference as a facilitator? And then what was your result? And then a reflection on your session. And then we edited all the and then we asked people first of time in the Netherlands, we did the thing in the Netherlands, first called the book, was ‘Facilitation Made Easy’. And we just invited people who came to the conference or in our networks to submit cases and asked their clients if they were okay with that their case was used. And also we checked the actual cases, and then we edited them for for, how should I say it, that they all look the same. And also, when you ask a facilitator what they do, you get a long story about the I did this and this and then I did, but that was not interesting. We wanted to know, where did you make the difference? What was the turning point, or the the Blue Note way, what was, what was, what you did, the counterpoint in your session? And then we sent them back to them, and what do you think about it? And then when they agreed, we put them in the book. And then, and it was very clever. I think we made, we decided to print like 2000 copies, but you could have your own cover sheet. So you could buy 50 or 100 with your own organization on the front and on the back, with and, and these were the sponsors of the book. So they paid, actually, they paid the fixed cost for making a book, publishing the book, even before we had to sell it, because they have already and they got a very low price for the 50 or 100. So our company might at work, ordered 100 and there were several other organizations, most of them organization for facilitators who bought 50 or 100 copies in the pre-sales. And I had my book published by Helling here in the Netherlands about facilitation, which is actually a meta praxis. And then it was in the Netherlands it was a huge success, and I introduced it at an IAF Europe conference. And then we decided to create the international version, and we translated the 12 international cases from the Netherlands, because a lot of us work in other countries and than in the Netherlands, and we invited facilitators from England, from Germany, from Japan, from North Africa, to add their cases. And we use the same format, and we added a glossary of terms, because then suddenly you notice that when we use the same word, we are saying different things. And we published that book, and our basic idea at that time was to make it one yearly or two yearly event and use the cases from the IAF award, let's say, as a format. We proposed it to the board, but we never heard anything about our proposal, again. One of the other things a facilitator could only buy two copies. So you bought one for yourself, and want to give away.
H.J Nice. I think I have a copy actually. So yeah.
N.W And from all of those different global case studies, are there any sort of key themes or lessons that came out of those, or any particular case studies that stood out for you?
J.L Yes, several. I think the case from Maureen Jenkins is very interesting because he worked with a congregation of nuns in Roman and international organization, which is actually very huge, but they have to change their way of working, and since it is very natural. And also, I like the case by Marlin Moran from Sweden, because in that case it is actually, it's a very short case, which actually, which is very often the case in many problem situations that people have different, how should I said, meanings of the same word. So in this case, it's about teamwork, but and the teamwork didn't work because they, the CEO, didn't think they were a team. They were working as a team, and it just happened that they had different definitions of the way of teamwork, some thinks, okay, it's a month or the weekly meeting. And also now we should pull together as a team we should share those. And Marlin noticed that and then made that as an intervention. And so this is also the cases that you start out with a certain assumption about what is the case, and then suddenly notice that there's a completely different problem or situation which is not being discussed and which should be on the forefront of the meeting. And I think this is one of the red threads, the one of ,what they have in common, that you are able to change your assumptions on what is happening while in the meeting. So of course, it's very difficult because you have prepared your script and or if you have your agenda and you want to stick to the agenda, but actually your own, I will say, you only got your agenda to know where you differ from your agenda. Plans are nothing. Planning is everything. So you've got a plan. I'm very, almost very well prepared for my sessions, but most of the times, in the first quarter an hour or first half an hour, the plan goes out of the window.
H.J I really like that plan. Plans are nothing. Planning is everything. I think I might, I might take that as a quote.
J.L yeah, and you have to be able to replan your session during session, and that is why you have to. So only when you are well prepared you can improvise, because that gives you the certainty that you have thought this and and the ability to let go of your preparation when the need arises, when the situation asks you to. By the way, I learned it from a very good facilitator. She once came to my training. You did the brown
N.W and so thinking about, obviously, you've talked about the book and the conferences. What other ways do you sort of bring people together in IAF Netherlands? what other kinds of activities have you run? Or do you currently run?
J.L Well, strangely enough,we had to dissolve the association, so we are now kind of a kind of open network, which I run through meetup, and I only organize one meeting a year, and still the meetup starts to grow and grow and grow. So we go from 300 or under 300 to over 500 now. And I sometimes ask people, okay, what you want me to organize, to facilitate, and then I get no response. So I don't know, you know, let's see. I'm hoping to do something in September about facilitation.
H.J And do you have any particular you know, What do you think will happen in the future? So at the moment, it sounds like it's sort of loosely organized network of meetups. Or, as you say, you know, you put one meetup on a year. What are you hoping for the future?
J.L Well, what I've seen, what this happened, has happened in the Netherlands, is that there are several networks now, or facilitators, most of them are organized in a company and around a certain method or a certain tool, like Open space or Agile or Facilitation Academy. And in most of those, future center. And in most of those networks, people participate, who used to be in the IAF network. And I sometimes talk to them and say, why don't you come to the IAF meetings? And then say, well, we don't need an international association. So they are like local organizations for local meetings. And I think it's that's I think I see myself, like as a catalyst. And also in the IAF Meetup group, most of the participants are non Dutch speakers, but they work with consultancy agency or, yeah, or they are self employed in networks as a trainer or a consultant. They don't call themselves facilitators, and I expect that after some time, we will start doing more meetings or sessions on facilitation. But then, you know, this is just my way of organizing. So I don't organize much. I like just things. Things happen all by themselves. They don't need me to to happen and only when you when I'm asked to do something, I do something, that may seem strange, but I think that most of, actually all change processes happen by themselves through everything, even before open space, I thought everything that happens is the only thing that can happen and the people who come are always the right people. You know, I did sessions at an international IAF conference, and only one person showed up at my workshop. And, okay, let's have a one person workshop. And she's still very fond of it. Since I met her again, she's from Turkey. She still remembers that workshop that sometimes you know you your workshops are crowded to 40, 50 people. Okay, your framing creates your situation. So when you frame yourself as an association, you've got Association problems, and I can say blindly, which they are. You have to tend to take care of your members. The members expect you. You have to have a board, and your board will indefinitely expand. You have a certification events, and the certification will also proliferate. You get like a master certificate and a beginner certificate, I already predicted that this is a normal way of working. And as I said, facilitation is not a normal way of working. We are exceptional people ,work in an exceptional situation.
N.W Okay, well, I mean, I think there's a really lovely sort of emergent theme, kind of running through the conversation today, which I think it's more about, as you, you said earlier on, about the kind of ,the universe, I think, and how that shifts, and maybe that's how the future of the chapter might emerge and sort of respond. So I think we've had a really great conversation today, Jan thank you so much for your time. If listeners are in the Netherlands, where should they look? You mentioned the meetup, where can they find out more?
J.L Yeah, the IAF Netherlands meet up.
N.W Okay, so is there a website they need to look for?
J.L It's a Facilitator Meetup Netherlands facilitated by IAF Netherlands it's called.
N.W Okay
J.L And there are now 5579 members.
N.W Brilliant. And what about if people would like to get in touch with you directly. Where's the best place to find you?
J.L Well, you can use it through the facilitator meetup by IAF Netherlands, or send me an email. IAF-netherlands@kpnmail.nl
N.W Great. Thank you so much.
H.J Thank you so much. Jan, it's been really interesting talking to you, and I'd love to chat more, but for today's podcast, thank you very much.
J.L Thank you. Thank you for inviting me, lovely to talk with you.
| |||
| 21 Jan 2025 | FS74 Representation and Lego with Camilla Gordon | 00:21:37 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Camilla Gordon, a process facilitator , about representation in Lego and her new “Figiverse” project. They talk about
‘I had people of colour seeing these more representative Lego pieces and had really emotional reactions to it, because people have never seen themselves in these pieces’ ‘It has become so normalised that particular identities don't get represented in different spaces’
‘recognizing that these forms of representation shouldn't be separated from the more traditional Lego pieces, but actually should be a core part of those packs’
A full transcript is below.
Links: Today’s guest: To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter: Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team: Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales Chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name's Nikki Wilson, and today I'm going to be speaking to Camilla Gordon. So welcome, Camilla. To get us started would you like to tell us a little bit more about you and what you do.
C.G Sure. So I am a freelance facilitator, and I'm a process facilitator. So focused on getting groups from A to B, I am what I would call sector agnostic. So work across a range of different sectors with lots of different clients and groups from unaccompanied children, refugees and asylum seekers all the way through to corporate boards, and part of my approach in doing that work is trying to facilitate processes that are more inclusive, kind of recognizing power dynamics and hierarchies and rooms. I'm really clear that I'm not a D&I facilitator. For me, that's just the core part of how I work, rather than it being a kind of defined piece. And so, yeah, I do lots of kinds of work, lots of different places, lots of different processes.
N.W Great. And so the focus of today's conversation is Lego. So how and why do you use Lego in your work?
C.G So I'm a Lego Serious Play facilitator, or what I usually like to say, I'm trained in Lego Serious Play. I say that because I use elements of Lego Serious Play in my work. But I'm not wedded to it in a strict way, in relationship to the process and how it works. I like to take bits and pieces of different methods and tools to make it work for the group, and so use Lego in a range of different ways within the different processes that I run from using Lego Serious Play in its most formal sense, but also using Lego as a tool to explore different parts of conversations and in different ways.
N.W And so while you like to use some Lego, I believe you noticed there was something that you didn't like about it. So could you tell us a little bit more about that?
C.G Yeah, definitely. I started using Lego Serious Play about seven years ago, and one of the first things I noticed was the lack of representation within Lego. I saw lots of yellow faces, I saw lots of yellow hands, but I didn't see any representation of black and brown heads and hands. I didn't see any representation of disabled people. I didn't see representation in many ways, in the Lego that I was using.
Following on from that, I spent a lot of time looking for some of those pieces, looking for ways to bring representation into my kit, because the groups that I work with were because the groups that I work with are from a huge range of different backgrounds with a huge range of different identities. And on that journey, I realised part of the reason I didn't have that in my kit to begin with was because very little of it existed in the world. I ended up on Lego resale websites, talking to Lego dealers, and while there were a few representations of black and brown heads, a lot of them were double printed with happy and angry on either side. And I was very aware of the stereotypes and tropes that come along with racial stereotypes, and I didn't want to feature that in my kit. And in the end, I had to get them custom printed, so I bought a whole load of heads with the formal colour being reddish brown or medium Nougat, which is the term the colour definition from LEGO. I had to get them custom printed.
And obviously, recognizing representation isn't just about racial representation. I also spent a lot of time looking for other identities that could be represented. And looked at things like wheelchairs. They were also very hard to source and had only been released in one kit. And they were five pounds each for the ones that I could source and they were very hard to find. Looking for other forms of representation, things such as hijabs, different elements of different religions, different elements of different identities, they were virtually impossible to find. And so it became a bit of a mission for me to try and find more pieces like that. And I came across a statistic. These numbers are not the actual numbers but it was something along the lines of 8 to 10 times the number of yellow and white heads represented to the number of black and brown heads represented. So there was a huge disparity in relation to those pieces.
Part of the reason doing this was so important to me was there is a perception that yellow is a neutral colour and that yellow represents everyone. When I get asked this question, I usually respond by asking, there is an American cartoon, The Simpsons, and they are all yellow. What ethnicity would you say the Simpsons were? Usually I get a very clear answer back, if I don't, then I ask which of the characters in The Simpsons aren't yellow? And then we find characters like the shopkeeper Apu. And then it becomes even more clear that actually that isn't a neutral colour. And time after time after time in my workshops, I had people of colour seeing these more representative Lego pieces and at times, I've had, you know, really emotional reaction to it, because people have never seen themselves in these pieces. I've had young people in wheelchairs who have never seen themselves in these pieces, and I regularly hear things along the lines of, it's me, I've never seen this before, through to young people who have taken away models of themselves and keep them on their on their shelf, because they want to keep that in sight for them, because they have never seen it. And part of the reaction when I talk to people is less about seeing themselves, but the realization that they have never seen themselves because it has become so normalised that particular identities don't get represented in different spaces.
N.W Okay and so, I mean, obviously you were already taking some action within your own kit, but then you've now decided to actually take this forward and do something wider and bigger. How did you decide to do that and to do something more with the work that you'd already done?
C.G Well, this has been something that's been set on my mind for two years, but I was really keen that other people should have access to these sort of pieces, from the perspective of particularly Lego Serious Play facilitators, to broaden the representation within their kits. But beyond that, I use Lego mini figure pieces at the start of almost all my workshops, whether or not I'm using Lego Serious Play in order for people to be able to build representations of themselves. What has come out of that is the number of people requesting those pieces and asking where I got them from, because they want access to them. And so over a period of time, it became really clear that people did want these pieces. And so I decided that it was important for these pieces to be on offer, not just for Lego Serious Play facilitators, but for facilitators in general, and if and when individuals want them, for families, for people who are not facilitators, and for youth groups who work with a range of identities in their spaces. And it was hearing from individuals again and again that they wanted access to these pieces that was this sort of catalyst for me moving forward with this and trying to make it happen.
N.W And so how did you decide how you'd approach taking it wider, as it were? I mean, so you said that before you get custom printed figures in the designs that you want, how did you decide to kind of approach taking it wider?
C.G Well, something that has changed over the last few years is Lego has improved the range of pieces that they offer. While they don't always feature in their kits, you can order them directly.
N.W Right.
C.G And so in me being able to access more pieces, it meant there was an opportunity to pull a range of pieces together to make, to make a product, to make something that would be beneficial to groups of people recognizing that these forms of representation shouldn't be separated from the more traditional Lego pieces, but actually should be a core part of those packs. As I say, I don't think we should be adding things on, they should just be the norm. Yeah, and so that was part of how I went about it. I did a lot of research around what pieces were available, and a number of pieces are actually no longer available. I had a number, I have a number of heads, black heads that feature Vitiligo. I can no longer find those on the Lego website. I also came across a piece with a cochlear implant on the hair, I had to order those from a Lego dealer because I could no longer source them directly from Lego. And so there's been a lot of different moving parts, but for me, it was about the research piece and looking at how we could bring the different parts together into something that was accessible for people to be able to purchase, and also gave the opportunity to give kits to youth groups and organisations who potentially wouldn't be able to afford them otherwise.
N.W Okay and so what you're going to be offering is complete kits with this range of different pieces within them to people to purchase and potentially some to for people to get free if they're not able to afford them. Is that? Is that right?
C.G Yeah, so the the business is called Figiverse, and there are curated packs of different size, generally ranging from for groups of 6 to 8, for groups of 14 to 16, for groups of up to 30, that include a range of mini figures, a range of heads and hands, and also different accessories. Other products that are on the market generally offer per one mini figure, one accessory. But really for this to work as a product, you need more than that, because you want people to have the choice in how they represent themselves. And so generally the kit, so for our kit, for 14 to 16 people we have over 100 accessories in that pack so that people really can choose, and they are designed to be used by facilitators. And so they come with a set of base plates so people can present their models. And come, you know, in a carry bag, trying to think about these products from all different angles to make them as usable as possible, and a number of different use cases for facilitators to be able to to use them effectively from the get go.
N.W Okay, great. And so for listeners' benefit, we're actually speaking at the end of November in 2024 how and where have you got to so far with this project?
C.G Great question. Well, so hopefully today, I'll be launching the website, and, broadly speaking, seeing what, what the response is. Ideally we would see in the next few weeks, in the run up to Christmas, what sort of things are popular, and then doing a bigger launch for January, wanting to make sure that we're getting it right in terms of what people want, but also being really clear that these products aren't Perfect. All the elements that we would want represented aren't there, and so over time, keen to improve that range. So while right now in the product development, we have what we can get, we're actually very limited by those things. And I've tried to find ways right now to improve that. So creating flags, like pride flags, for example, to try and represent identities from a range of different perspectives and ways. So those are currently made by me using decal but hopefully moving forward, they would be more professionally developed. So at a very early stage in the whole thing, but trying to work with a good enough mentality to try and get out there.
N.W Okay, and so I was going to ask a bit about what's coming next. Well, obviously, just actually launching the website. And then you said that you've got a kind of bigger launch plans for January. Have you got any particular ideas of what you're going to do with that?
C.G Yeah, I think for me, I would like to really expand what can be offered, primarily because I want to get this into more spaces for more people to be able to access. Right now, you've got the core kits. Other options that I'm looking at are things like office parties, renting a kit, organisations are really keen to move away from alcohol based social events because they're not inclusive, and so using this is a bit of a tool for that, offering rental options. But also if people want to create their models and then keep them also offering things like guest books for weddings, where people want to build themselves as a wedding guest and keep a really wonderful part of their day for them. Also options for things like subscriptions, so facilitators can keep updating the kits that they have, and getting new accessories, and maybe going seasonal accessories. So I think there's a lot of different options that are quite exciting to think about, but again, trying to start with the basics to see, to see what happens really from here.
N.W And do you have any thoughts about how you will kind of prioritize what the next stages of development will be? Because obviously, you've said there's this whole range of options, and you're starting with that kind of good enough core where, how would you decide what to do next with each of those?
C.G Broadly, the next few weeks will dictate a lot of that, where the interest is. At the moment, I haven't gone for kits that are smaller than sort of 6 to 8 people. I've had a lot of interest from parents, from people who look after young people, and so potentially looking at an offer there, but a lot of it is dictated on capacity. At the moment, it's just me roping in a few friends when we can, and also keen to have a look at the sustainability side of things. At the moment, 20% of the kits, up to 20% of the kits are from, include pre-loved Lego pieces, and so we'd love to play around with that, but again, right now, it's seeing what happens now, what the interest level is, and then working with that to try and build products and offers that work for the audiences that we're talking to.
N.W And I guess what you're saying about pre-loved and sustainability part of the issue with that is that a lot of these things don't exist in the pre-loved market at the moment. And so you're, you've maybe got the core kits that are the more easily available pieces, and then I suppose the more that this grows, you've got more chance of being able to get pre-loved pieces. And so, I mean, you've probably hinted at this already, but what are your hopes for the project, and what help do you need to get there?
C.G I think my hopes are that one day, when I take a kit such as this into a group, there'll be no reaction to it, because people will have seen these pieces, they'll be used to seeing all of these pieces in every Lego kit, and that would be my ideal one day. That might be quite far away at this point. But also, I would love for this conversation to keep going, particularly with Lego, to see if there are opportunities to work together or to really look at the range of pieces that they have and how that can be expanded in relation to other forms of identity, particularly beyond racial identity, as I think there's a there is a huge focus on racial identity, but there are also plenty of other identities that aren't represented in lots and lots of different spaces. So having more access to pieces that represent that kind of wide range of identities is really important to me, and so I'd like to keep the conversation going. If people wanted to get involved, it'd be great to have those conversations. Get in touch, join the mailing list, but also, if you're a facilitator and you're looking for something you can bring into your workshops, do think about picking up a kit. They are great for things like introducing people, but also for opening conversations around diversity and representation. I have also used them for things such as building teams. What, how would you build your ideal team? What do each of these people need and look like? And so I think there's a range of things and as I said, representation is a core part of this product. But actually, the reason I developed the product is because it's a really, really great way to open conversations with people that aren't related to representation, and these pieces are just a part of that in the way that all of the other pieces are.
N.W Okay and so if listeners want to know more about this project or about you and your work how can they find you and find the project?
C.G So Figiverse has its own website, which is figiverse.co.uk . I'm also hoping by the time this goes out, that there will be some social media presence. We'll see about that. But you can also find me as an individual. My website's Camillagordon.co.uk , find me on LinkedIn, and would love to chat more and find out from people what they think about this as an idea.
N.W Brilliant. Well, I'm sure there'll be lots of people keen to get in touch and sort of know more about it. Sounds like a great project, and we'll put the links in the show notes as well so that they're easy to find. But thank you so much Camilla, it's been great to chat to you about this.
C.G Great thanks. Nikki. Really appreciate it and excited to be able to share a bit more and a bit further and wider about the project.
N.W Brilliant. We'll be looking forward to hearing more.
C.G Thanks
H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF, England and Wales.
N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved, all of the links are on our website. Facilitationstories.com
H.J And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use?
N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?
H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about?
N.W Send us an email at podcast@IAF-Englandwales.org .
H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more Facilitation Stories.
N.W Until then, thank you for listening.
| |||
| 18 Oct 2020 | FS25 Our Conference Has Gone Online and We're Being More Pirate! | 00:33:50 | |
In today's episode, Helene Jewell talks to TWO guests! EPISODE TRANSCRIPT My name is Helene Jewell, and I'm your host for this episode, which is going to focus on the October conference. And that's happening between the 19th and 23rd of October, and it's online. Today I'm joined first by Susannah Raffe, who is going to tell us a bit more about the conference itself and about herself hopefully, and then by Cat Duncan-Rees, who's going to talk a bit more about the session that she's leading at the conference. So first up we have Susannah. Susannah is a facilitator, compassion advocate and climate communicator who helps people to engage bravely with the big scary issues of our time, using the climate crisis as a starting point. She is a member of the IAF England and Wales leadership team and co host of the IAF London meetups. She's also bravely taken on heading up the conference planning this year. Welcome, Susannah. Susannah Raffe 1:11 Helene Jewell 1:12 Susannah Raffe 1:13 Helene Jewell 1:17 Susannah Raffe 1:32 Helene Jewell 2:55 Susannah Raffe 3:01 Helene Jewell 3:34 Susannah Raffe 3:48 Helene Jewell 3:53 Susannah Raffe 4:19 Helene Jewell 5:33 Susannah Raffe 5:46 Helene Jewell 7:00 Susannah Raffe 7:16 Helene Jewell 8:12 Susannah Raffe 8:31 Helene Jewell 8:44 Susannah Raffe 8:54 Helene Jewell 9:41 Susannah Raffe 9:52 Helene Jewell 10:26 Susannah Raffe 10:50 Helene Jewell 11:37 Susannah Raffe 11:39 Helene Jewell 12:11 Susannah Raffe 12:54 Helene Jewell 14:48 Susannah Raffe 15:51 Helene Jewell 15:59 Susannah Raffe 16:13 Helene Jewell 16:39 Next, I'm joined by Cat Duncan-Rees, curator of change, creative disrupter, co production advisor, pirate, wife, and mum Welcome Cat. How are you? Cat Duncan-Rees 17:12 Helene Jewell 17:21 Cat Duncan-Rees 17:51 Helene Jewell 18:39 Cat Duncan-Rees 18:46 Helene Jewell 19:27 Cat Duncan-Rees 19:50 So it's somewhere in the process, I randomly applied to do a session at the global summit. And that was accepted, obviously, that's not going ahead now, and then ended up in lockdown on zoom, going to some of the meetups went into a national meetup, met John, who John and I were in the last podcast that I did for you, in that session, and we have this very random conversation with Martin at the end of the session, which, which became a podcast. And that's kind of like, I think just the sense of interest that people showed in some of what we were talking about, and the sense of welcome that I felt from people and the connections and the meeting lots of different people through the kind of virtual sessions that the IAF have put on those regular monthly meetups regionally and nationally. And some of the other things that have been, have been a huge encouragement to me during lockdown. And, you know, when we, when I haven't been on the road as much and been out meeting people, I guess, we all feel a little bit of that. And, and, and then John, and I ended up on the Martins kind of encouragement, doing a session earlier in the year looking at what it means to facilitate the future that we want. We had another session last week, with another very interesting and deep discussion that degenerated into utter madness at the end, which was just brilliant, you know, that real humanity, I've actually let we're in this together, there's an element of depth to all this stuff. And but also, we're human, and it's alright, to have a bit fun with this. And, you know, Helene Jewell 22:32 Cat Duncan-Rees 23:05 Helene Jewell 23:58 Cat Duncan-Rees 24:16 Helene Jewell 24:20 Cat Duncan-Rees 24:26 Helene Jewell 25:26 Cat Duncan-Rees 25:28 Helene Jewell 25:48 Cat Duncan-Rees 25:48 Helene Jewell 26:03 Cat Duncan-Rees 26:03 Helene Jewell 27:40 Cat Duncan-Rees 27:51 Helene Jewell 28:14 Cat Duncan-Rees 28:54 Helene Jewell 31:30 Cat Duncan-Rees 32:03 Helene Jewell 32:25 Thank you so much Cat for joining me today. It's been lovely to talk to you. And I really look forward to seeing you at the conference. So that's the end of today's episode of facilitation stories. Make sure that you're subscribed to the show on whatever podcast app you use. And if you'd like to contribute to the show. Well, are you a facilitator? Have you got a story? Have you got something to say about an IAF meetup you've attended? If you have send us some text or even an mp3 audio and we'd love to know you're listening. You can get in touch with us on twitter @IAFEnglandWales you can use the hashtag IAF podcast we are on email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org where you can find out more about us over at the England Wales page on the IAF-world.org website if you want to get in touch with either of my guests today. They're both on twitter @CatDRees, or @SusannahRaffe and you can get in touch with me @HeleneJewell. This has been Facilitation Stories brought to you by The IAF England and Wales
| |||
| 11 May 2021 | FS32 Back to Facilitating Face to Face | 00:32:27 | |
In today’s episode, host Helene Jewell talks about returning back to face-to-face facilitation after a year spent moving facilitation online due to the pandemic. Helene first talks to Camilla Gordon, freelance facilitator, trainer and consultant, and a winner of an IAF Facilitation Impact Award, about her experiences about face-to-face facilitation in the past year. Camilla talks openly about her need to be with clients face to face, as she wasn’t built for an office job, or to be stuck behind her desk. She also talks about how ensuring people keep distanced in sessions goes against everything she believes in as a facilitator who is bringing people together. During their conversation Camilla talks about the practical steps that she took to ensure that the space was covid-secure. That included having the right materials for each person, as well as ensuring that the workshop was delivered in the most appropriate space. She also talks about the need to design the process around people who are distancing, for example you need to redesign your usual activities when you can’t have people huddled round a table writing things all together, but you still need to achieve a feeling of collaboration. Ideas that Camilla shares include having a line 2m from the flipcharts, so that whoever stepped into the area had a safe space to speak. Doing pair work seated to ensure the physical barrier helps to maintain the necessary distance. Taking people outside for group work. When it comes to responsibility Camilla talks about how this is shared between herself and the client. Her role was to ensure that she sets out the minimum expectations, and how she will direct the group to ensure they follow the rules. Whilst the client is responsible for ensuring that the group are comfortable coming back together in the room, and that they understand the need to follow Camilla’s direction whilst in the space. Camilla also makes sure that the group know that if they have concerns that they should bring them to her, and she will then make the necessary adjustments. Helene reflects that this is an extension of the usual role of the facilitator of making sure that you are keeping an eye out that everyone is psychologically safe and that they’re able to participate equally in the process. Helene asks Camilla what she has learnt, what she is bringing back from virtual facilitation to face-to-face and the advice that she would give other facilitators. Here's a summary of all those tips
Camilla has written a blog about her experiences, which you can read on her website: https://www.camillagordon.co.uk/blog/10-top-tips-for-post-lockdown-facilitation and you can connect with Camilla on Twitter
Next, we have an audio clip from Barb Pederson, a Certified Professional Facilitator from Canada, where she shares some of her experiences from the last year, along with her top tips. Barb speaks about her experiences in November 2020 of facilitating a mixture of face-to-face and hybrid events. In preparation for the events she read various articles with top tips for managing the space, but in Canadian winter they weren’t always options for her! Barb focuses on the steps that she took before the sessions. Firstly, she would recommend speaking directly with all the participants beforehand, to ensure they understand the covid protocols which will be followed during the session. Secondly, she developed a contract for her clients that identified each parties’ responsibilities when it came to all the required protocols. It is important to confirm these at the start of each day with your participants, as they can become relaxed during the sessions and need a reminder. Thirdly, she talks about the importance of ventilation and having windows and doors open where possible. Barb also talks about the need to be prepared for surprises when you do go to the venue and it isn’t as you expected. Finally, Barb talks about having visible signs to indicate the relevant distances, and that her group didn’t have any issues being heard through masks and at distance. You can connect with Barb on Twitter. Our co-host Pilar Orti pops in at the end to share a few pieces of information that we received when we asked our community to share their tips. Replying to our Facilitation Stories tweet Martin Gilbraith talks about being happy to keep his work online, so turning down face-to-face work. From the IAF Global Slack Pinar Akkaya talks about doing small group work with less than 6 people and following the guidelines issued by the venue which the sessions were held in. If you’d like to contribute to a future podcast, talk about one of the recent IAF Meetups then you can find all on contact information on our website: facilitationstories.com | |||
| 30 Mar 2020 | FS14 What Does it Mean to be Nimble in Facilitation? With Rebecca Sutherns | 00:33:08 | |
In this episode, Helene Jewell talks to Rebecca Sutherns, author of Nimble: A Coaching Guide for Responsive Facilitation about how she became a facilitator, and what she's learned through her practice about remaining nimble and responsive during sessions, when things don't go as expected. (Hint: it involves plenty of preparation!) | |||
| 12 Oct 2021 | FS38 David Bishop Introduces the New Ireland Chapter | 00:16:25 | |
Today’s host is Nikki Wilson, talking to guest David Bishop, bilingual trainer and facilitator, based in France. 3) Skills Exchange, where people lend a hand to others on an aspect of facilitation. A new chapter is born! So check out what they're up to. There’s already quite a few meetings planned and you can check out the schedule here: https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Ireland-facilitators-and-friends/
| |||
| 16 Mar 2020 | FS12 IAF Voices and Facilitating Hybrid Meetups | 00:36:24 | |
In this episode, we hear from three people who attended one of our last virtual meetups, and one of our co-hosts, Pilar Orti, talks to Judy Rees about their recent experiment organising a "hybrid" meetup. Find out when the next virtual meetups are happening: We also have some listener feedback from Anuschka who wanted to know how to join the IAF Slack. If you have something to say about a recent IAF meetup, or anything else we say on this podcast, do emails us over at podcast@iaf-englandwales.org Conversation with Judy Rees on Hybrid Meetups Can hybrid meetings work? That was the main question we were addressing. And Twitter @judyrees | |||
| 15 Feb 2020 | FS10 Thoughts and Reflections from Meetups and What's Coming Up | 00:35:38 | |
Step into this episode brought to you by IAF England and Wales, with co-hosts Helene Jewell and Pilar Orti, plus three other voices, in both text and audio. https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales At the latest Bristol meetup, Helene and others discussed does it matter what we call ourselves: coach, facilitator... is it linked to our identity, our marketing? What's Coming Up? https://www.meetup.com/IAF-facilitators-and-friends/events/26 And don't forget there are virtual meetups every month. Hear from Charo Lanao about why they are important to her. https://www.linkedin.com/in/charo-lanao/ Finally: Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Find out more about us over at the EnglandWales page on https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales
| |||
| 19 Nov 2024 | FS73 Reflections on being Chair of IAF England and Wales with Jane Clift | 00:36:27 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Jane Clift about her role as the Chair of IAF England and Wales. They talk about:
“the game changer for me was coming to my first IAF conference,I had never met so many people interested in facilitation”
“I think there's been a recognition in our chapter, in our community, we can all learn from each other.”
A full transcript is below. Links Today’s guest: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-clift/ Email: chair@iaf-englandwales.org To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter: Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team: Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript H.J Hello and welcome to facilitation stories brought to you by the England and Wales Chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Helen Jewell, and today I'm going to be talking to Jane Clift, consultant, coach and facilitator and Chair of IAF England and Wales. Welcome Jane.
J.C Thank you very much, Helen. I'm very happy to be here.
H.J So I've got lots of questions for you, mostly about your role as chair, but before we do that, it'd be really nice to hear a little bit more about you as a facilitator and the type of work that you do.
J.C Very good opening question there. So I have facilitated in quite a wide range of contexts, and I think I was doing it before I knew it was called facilitation. So I'm currently have my own business, but I've also worked a great deal for organisations, originally in sort of technology and consulting roles. So I think I was setting up and running workshops well before I knew that there was a term called facilitator, or that facilitation was a thing. So I would say that my practice started very, very organically, very organically. It's
H.J It's funny, if I listen back to all the different podcasts we've done, we've done, I would say that that kind of thing is a real thread through all of them that people have kind of come into facilitation accidentally, organically, or discovered that it is called facilitation after they began doing it in the first place.
J.C Exactly, yeah, something that I've also, I've always really loved stationery and stationery shops, like I really, really enjoy going into rymans and places like that. So obviously, when you're working as a facilitator, you have got the best reason in the world to be stocking up on colourful stationery craft materials. So there's something about that aspect of it that I don't know, just I've always really, really liked that idea of bringing, like, colourful stationery or objects into the workplace and having a reason to use them. And that reason is facilitation.
H.J I love it. That's a great reason. I am also a self confessed stationery nerd, so I totally, I'm totally on board with that. Is there a particular type of facilitation that you enjoy doing, or that you feel is your kind of forte?
J.C So I've done a lot of facilitation around agreeing, like a strategy or a road map, or like, identifying things that are getting in the way. So one of the areas that I've actually facilitated on quite a lot is risk management, which is really an important topic if you're doing large scale programs or projects, which I've done quite a lot of in my career. So I actually really like that as a topic, whether you do that in person or online. I have done quite a lot of those workshops where you end up with a room covered in pieces of paper, covered in sticky, you know, in post its and so forth. But during lockdown, like many people, I became very adept at online facilitation, and that's probably the space that I've worked in the most over the last few years, and I, I really, really like that, and I'm amazed that it works, because you're connecting up people that can be all over the world, and you're just in this virtual space, and yet you can, you can make magic happen if you can facilitate it well, and I find that an incredible and unexpected gift that came out of lockdown. Having said that, there is nothing like the energy of being in a room with people. I also absolutely love that I had the great pleasure of being facilitated myself recently, large scale workshop, 30 of us in a room, all talking about something, and it was just so much fun. So I'm not sure I've really got a niche. I'm quite a versatile person, but I tend to be better with topics that are a little bit more creative or future oriented, or that are kind of attached to something that's happening right now. Hence the interesting risk.
H.J Ah, interesting, okay, and it's, yeah, also good hearing about that adaptability, which I think also flows through a lot of facilitators, practice or facilitation, and yeah, that whole movement online. I think it is amazing sometimes, as you say, to think how people can be connected online, but somehow, well, it's not somehow the magic happens. It's because we're brilliant facilitators.
J.C It is because we're brilliant facilitators and we can create a safe and a fun space. It's, it is incredible, and it's also something that you almost don't realise that you have a gift for until you get that feedback. Oh, that was great workshop. Oh, we made, you know, we made progress, or I felt I could speak up. During the lockdown, I volunteered as a facilitator for action for happiness, and I ran a monthly session, and each month we get to, oh, I've got to do that session again. Oh, like an hour and a half, and I go into it, and I had a co facilitator, and we'd be part way through the session, and the magic would start to happen. And you could feel, because lockdown was a very tough time for many people, and you could feel the magic of facilitation happen. You could feel people relax, open up, and at the end of the session, we'd always do this check in, and everybody without exception, every single one of those sessions we ran, people said, Oh, I feel better. All my energy levels have lifted, or I feel relaxed. And I just thought, wow.
H.J Yeah. And you get that real kind of lovely feeling in your body where you think, oh, yeah, this, this is, this is good. This is why I do this. Okay. And so you talk about, you know, your work, and then sort of almost discovering, I guess, that you are a facilitator, or that that's the thing that you can call what you do. When did you get more involved in the kind of the facilitation community and the IAF in particular.
J.C So like many people who facilitate, I had been doing quite a lot of facilitation, without much formal training or orientation and without any awareness there was a facilitation community. So what kind of got me into the IAF was I, I'd been doing some team, like away day workshop, and I had, this is classic me, by the way, I kind of reinvented the wheel, not realising that there were lots of methods out there and and like ways of doing things. And after I did this workshop and probably kind of gave it far too much effort, I thought I actually need to get learn some technique here. I've got the interest, I've got the motivation, I've got the aptitude. I haven't got enough technique. So I went and did some training with ICA UK. I did, I think that their group facilitation skills course. And I think the trainer was Martin Gilbraith, who, at the time, I think, was very much a leading light in the IAF. And I joined the IAF, and then I kind of washed in and out of it a little bit. And when I started to get more involved was at one of the London meetups. That's, I think, when I started to become more actively involved. Realised it was a community. Realised that you could come gather, meet other people who facilitate and talk about facilitation. Wow, amazing, it's a thing.
H.J A big network of geeks where we get to talk about all of these tools and techniques and stuff and stationery, probably. And so you discovered, I guess then this community, what kind of drew you in more, what kept you going to, you know, maybe the London meetups or ?
J.C I really like, I like being part of communities. So even though I have my own business, I do like to collaborate with other people. I do like to be connected to other people. It's quite important for me. So there's quite a lot of community attached to coaching, which is another area I'm involved with. And I think once I identified there was community attached to facilitation, I was just interested in finding out more. And the meetups were definitely really good for that. And then the game changer for me was coming to my first IAF conference. I don't think I'd ever met, I had never met so many people interested in facilitation, all in one space. And also the diversity of practice was really, really, it was really inspirational for me. I had been toying with some more creative practices, not necessarily having the confidence to implement them. And at that conference, I saw people that were just going, you know, all in on their more creative facilitation practices. And I was like, wow. So I think it was that very first conference which really said, thought, these are my people, these are my tribes. We're all different from each other, and yet we've got this thing in common. And so it was the creative thing, a kind of curiosity about people, and I think another common thread was this desire to, desire to make an impact in the world, but in quite a practical way.
H.J It does, I recognize that feeling of finding your people and just feeling really comfortable in a space, whether that's a meetup or something bigger, like the conference, and just thinking, oh yeah, people get what I'm talking about. And, yeah, that, yeah, making a difference I think is, is part of that, isn't it? How can we spread the word a bit? How can we share our, share our inner geekery, our love with other people? Okay, so pulling you further in, then you've been chair for the last couple of years, since January 2022, I think. And so how did that happen?
J.C Well, I have to say I wanted to get more involved in the IAF, and I think I stood for the board, and I guess I didn't intend to be chair, but I'm one of those people who I think it's called situational leadership. I don't choose to be a leader unless I feel in a context I am the best person to be that leader. So so I don't have, I don't have a burning desire every day to lead, but when I'm in a situation where I think in this context, I'm the best person to lead in order for us to get a good result, that's when I get involved. So that's I think, in with that group, when I became, when I joined the board and joined the leadership team, I was, I felt I was the best person, or the one who had had the capacity and the willingness. There was plenty of other people who had the expertise to do it, but I had the capacity and the expertise and the motivation to be the chair. So that's why I became the Chair. And it's been incredible, incredibly interesting thing to have done.
H.J So that's interesting, that kind of sweet spot of having all those things come together at once, as you say, the capacity and the sort of, you know, the space and the skills to actually do that. And so thinking the responsibilities is quite a it's a big deal being the chair, especially of, you know, a group of people that are all volunteers all coming together, you know, all sort of, all having their own day jobs as well. What have been your main kind of responsibilities, I suppose, as a chair, knowing a little bit about having done the role already?
J.C So the responsibilities are quite varied. The way I've worked as the chair is, there's a lot of structuring of the leadership group so that we can work effectively. So I guess there's an administrative element to it, and there's also an aspect to it where you're trying to move things forward in what you feel is the general direction that the group is interested in, whilst being mindful of the fact that everybody is indeed volunteering their time, and that, you know, it's a volunteer organisation, with fairly sort of Slim, slim but stable financial capacity. So it's it's been, for me, about like moving us forward, taking us further away from that sort of post COVID environment, where I think many organisations, you know, they had to get back on their feet, and I think you had steered the leadership team beautifully through the incredible challenges of lockdown. And I think I've been able to pick up from where you left off, continue the great work. And I think move us into an even, you know, into a stronger position. And definitely, I feel we've fully recovered from lockdown now, and I think evolved somewhat as well in some really, like, great, sort of great directions.
And I think we've also, and I've done this quite frequently when I've been in leadership roles, is I've tried to sort of streamline. And so sometimes with all organisations, particularly ones where a lot of people are very ideasy, you can spread yourselves too thinly, you can chase hairs, you can have an inconsistent practice because you're trying to do too much because you've got so many ideas. So I think one of the responsibilities of the chair is to sort of say, yes, these are all brilliant ideas, but where, where do we feel we can really make the most difference? Where should we? Where should we focus our energies to have the greatest impact? So that's definitely one of the, one of the responsibilities of the Chair is to sort of provide that, that leadership to, but to, you know, to acknowledge all the great ideas, but just to say, right what are we actually capable of doing as a leadership team, as an organisation, given it's entirely volunteer led.
H.J And especially maybe with a group of facilitators, you know, we do tend to like ideas, don't we? We've got all sorts of, you know, things that we think should happen and could happen, and so I guess containing them then and making sure that, yeah, some are driven forward, some aren't lost, and people are still on board with with all of what's going on is definitely quite a challenge. And thinking, also back to my time as chair, it felt like that was a period of, as you say, in COVID, treading water, just making sure that things sort of carried on really but definitely your era has been much more of a moving forwards, progressing, improving things, I think. Thinking then about highlights, I suppose, things that have really stood out for you, things that have gone really well. What are those?
J.C The highlights for me, from my time as chair the sort of the red carpet event every year is our conference. It's so much fun. It is two days of learning, connecting, getting totally out of your comfort zone, talking about facilitation, meeting your community, making friends, being grateful, thanking everybody for all that they're doing. So the two conferences in the time that I've been chair, they've both been really, really wonderful events for me, and I am so grateful for being part of them, even though, as Chair, I'm actually quite second hand to the conference because it's organised by a different group. But when I'm there at the conference, I have felt this is such a celebration of facilitation, it really is. And I've also been really pleased I've brought new people to the conference and introduced people to the leadership team and so forth. So that's the red carpet events.
I've absolutely, also really loved our leadership away days. And in fact, can you just describe them different? Yes, we're calling them retreats now. I also love, yes, our leadership retreat. So they've been absolutely wonderful events as well. And I remember thinking, Oh, I'm going to be facilitating facilitators, uh oh. So I remember that was thinking that was quite the challenge. And yet, you know, I think we've, I think I've been involved now in three of the retreats, and I think they've all, they've all gone well, and I've learned a lot about facilitation from, from running those, from designing those sessions, and from also witnessing people in our leadership team facilitating sessions within the session. So they've been really wonderful as well. And I guess I do love the in person activities, like I do love being in a room or a space with other people, so any opportunity to do that has been great, and I think inspired by meetups that I went to in London, I'm now based in Sheffield, and I've also kicked off like a facilitate Sheffield group. I'm not sure I would have done that had I not had the experience of being a chair. I've just realised sometimes it's just like, shall we do this? Shall we try and get something moving? And that's been really interesting as well, that sometimes you've just got to have a go.
H.J Oh, that's interesting. That the Sheffield meetup sort of grew out of your position as Chair, if you like. It's interesting thinking about that facilitating, facilitators bits? I totally Yeah, that really makes sense to me. That whole, you know, you, it's really good to see other people and experience other people's facilitation, but at the same time, I think possibly we are the worst participants, but it is nice to kind of get together and have that, have that all sharing of how we do things as well. I think it's quite inspirational.
J.C It's really, really inspirational for me. I find the diversity of people's practice, of their life experiences, the fact that people come from different parts of the UK, and we've all converged, actually, I think it's been in Manchester or Birmingham. So we've kind of all come together. I find that very, very interesting. And everyone's paths into facilitation have been quite different. So so for me, I kind of find those sessions are very opening up, and afterwards I go away and I've learned something that's often quite significant for me and I've then carried forward with me. So I'm not going to those sessions and think I'm going to boss everyone around. It's been, they're very collaborative.
H.J Definitely. No, that's been my experience as well, that feeling of collaboration. So what's changed, you know, quite a lot, probably in your time as chair, from this period of, you know, COVID, where things weren't moving forwards very much perhaps. What are the main changes you think you've seen in the last couple of years with the IAF England and Wales leadership team and board, but maybe beyond that as well?
J.C So there's been quite a lot of changes. I think facilitation itself as a sort of professional and area of expertise is more understood, known, celebrated and in demand than it's ever been. That's quite interesting. I think in the time I've been chair, I'm, I have a tendency to want to structure things, so I probably have brought in some structure more, perhaps some more structure than there was previously. And I've, as I said, maybe done some of that streamlining activity. And I think everybody that I know in IAF England and Wales is really keen to, you know, expand our community, welcome more people in ,work on the diversity. I think that we are slowly becoming more diverse. We acknowledge that there's a lot more to do in that space, but there's a sort of appetite and a sort of momentum around that now, we're not just talking about it, we're doing something about it. So, for example, most of the leadership team have now taken part in anti racism training, which is, you know, really, really important. So I think perhaps we were a little bit more focused than we were.
The other thing that I think changed is, and I think you 100% laid the foundations for this. I think we are more tightly or better aligned with the EME region for IAF. So I've participated in our, the regional like leadership team meetings, and they've been very interesting. And I think there's been a recognition in our chapter, in our community, we can all learn from each other. And when we've had people come to the conference from other other chapters that survive other geographies that's been really, really interesting and inspirational. So we can, we can learn so much from each other. And we've also, I think also we as a chapter have been able to do a little bit of support for other chapters as well. So that's been really great, too. So I guess I'm just trying to summarise what's changed. So I think a little bit more structure and focus, and also, yes, totally recovered from COVID and the lockdown era, and I'm feeling we probably contracted a little bit during that time period, as many organisations did, I feel we're now expanding.
H.J It's really interesting that Europe and Middle East Regional link as well, because I personally really value that diversity and looking outside, you know, our chapter, and seeing what other chapters are do, are doing, and, yeah, forging those links is a really, really nice thing to be doing I think.
J.C It's a wonderful opportunity. One of the things when we hear, it's easy to look at the news and think, Oh, so many bad, bad, dark things happening in the world. What I find is when you connect with people from other geographies, other cultures, when you form those links, when you extend your community, it just makes all those bad news stories, they seem a little less important, because on a very practical, like, I don't know, day to day basis, or you kind of you're ignoring all that. You're reaching out and saying, no, there is, there are, It is worth doing this stuff. It is worth connecting. It is worth still believing that we can change things through our facilitation practice. You know, I just, I like the aspect of it. I find, actually find this, I find this idea of being part of a global community, I find it very optimistic and positive.
H.J It's almost quite, quite a skill, I think, to be able to find that optimism. Because, as you say, you know, there's a lot of doom and gloom around but I really like that way of thinking about things. Find the kind of the good stuff in, you know, all that's going on around us. Okay, and then flipping that on its head, however, with any role, with any you know group such as we are, there will have been challenges. What have been the main challenges? In a few minutes?
J.C So one of the challenges has been my own time. So I have my own business. Sometimes I'm working full time, and then I'm supporting this activity in my free time. So that's been a personal challenge for me. The other personal challenge for me is with my desire for structure and focus, I've had to really temper that, because I have had to learn, and it's been really, really good for me, that we've got to let the ideas flow. We, people need that space to let the ideas flow, to connect. We can't, I've got a tendency to go straight into right what are we all going to do? Action, action, action. And that doesn't work with this community, because that, they that's not how this community operates. So it's been, for me that's been a tremendous learning curve, and I am now much, much more respectful and aware of that need to sort of have a lot more flow before you sort of, so that's been, that's been, as I said, it's been that's been quite challenging for me. And. And then, equally, it's also challenging that with the best one in the world, we are all volunteers, and everybody's time, you know, time constrained, or they have things going on in their personal lives which may inhibit their ability to do things, even if they're highly motivated to do that. And we are trying to be smart about this now, work at how we can outsource some of the more rote activities to to, like virtual assistance, so that we can, almost, like, use our time in a more clever and a smart way. And what I'm thinking, what are the other challenges have been? Well, it's always, you know, I think this is something we all suffer from, is, and I'm the, I'm also guilty of it is, is trying to do too much.
H.J And it's, I think, that bit about us all being, you know, we're all all volunteers. We're all doing this in our own time. We're all doing it because we are invested in our community, and we want it to be better, and we want more things from it, and we want it to still be the fantastic thing it is. But actually, you know, there's only so many hours in a day, and and then finding that time to do that, and the energy, and then collaborating and coordinating, coordinating that with with a whole heap of other people all around the country is, you know, it's definitely not an easy task.
J.C It's not easy at all. And I think at one point I was trying to, sort of almost like fly solo too much, and doing too much on my own. And then this year I've been really busy. And I, it was actually, this is a kind of a sort of, you know, people make New Year's decisions. So one of my decisions for 2024 was whatever I'm trying to do in life, I want to do that in collaboration with others. So I've been a much more collaborative leader in 2024 for our chapter, and I think that's been really beneficial for the chapter. So rather than thinking, I can, I'll do all this stuff on my lonesome, I've actually asked people to come in with me, and I think that's been much more successful for the chapter and for me, and again, it's another sort of smart way of working and sort of not being that kind of lonely leader marching up the mountain on their own. It's much better if you are, if you're doing stuff in small groups or with a partner. So that's just been a personal learning for me and a decision and a change of a change, like a change of sort of operation.
H.J So it sounds like there's been quite a lot of learning, you know, over the last couple of years for you as chair and probably for all of us as the leadership team as well. Thinking then about, you know, all that hard work that goes into making this stuff happen, and the IAF leadership team and the, you know, England, Wales, and the wider community, what do you think that that we kind of bring to people, you know, what? What's, what do people get from it?
J.C I think the most important thing that we offer is community. I think, I think many people who work in the facilitation space, I don't know if it's solo entrepreneurs, you know, or small businesses, and I think creating a community that's actually really easy to connect to, you can be in our community, don't have to be a member. You know, many people aren't members. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that there's a community that you can be part of, and we offer different ways of connecting. We have our online meetups, we have in person meetups, we have our conference and then I think what I've I've seen happen which is a very beautiful thing to witness. I have seen people who I know have only met through the conference or through the community start to do collaborations together, which shows you that these relationships are really, really building and developing and supporting people professionally. So I think that community thing is, we never did anything else, that's that's, for me, is the most important thing.
But the second thing, I think, is really important, is sharing practice and acknowledging when we see good work and supporting practice. And it can be really something quite practical like, has anyone done this type of thing? Can you recommend an exercise to do this? How do you price something so, so it can be, like the very practical things, but it can also be, I mean, at the conference, quite a lot of people will showcase something that perhaps they're still working on, in terms of offering it out to clients. It's a place where you can do some experimentation. I think that's just, I feel we are very much a community of practice, and I just think that's another huge benefit to all of not just the paid up members, but everybody in our community that we can support each other to develop practice, and we can learn from each other's practices.
H.J And it feels like that community, or our community, is growing all the time, and the more it grows, the more you discover new things. And you think, Oh, I didn't realise that was a thing that's interesting. I want to know more about that. And like, it doesn't seem that there are any edges to facilitation most. It's like just a constantly changing picture, which for me is someone who's got a fairly short attention span, I think is great. Always like, Oh, I've found something new to do, to learn about. So what do you think, then, is next for IAF, England, Wales and the broader community, whether members or, you know, not members.
J.C We've done quite a lot of work on, like, quite futuristic visioning, and I think we slightly rode back from that, because it almost became something that was inhibiting our more immediate development and growth. So I quite like the fact that we've been a little bit more realistic about our capacity. And we've kind of, we're focusing on a few things we want to do really well. So one of them is this wonderful podcast that I'm on today.
H.J Of course.
J.C We want to support all of our meetups, online and in person. We want the conference to be a great success, I think, we, we obviously want to continuing offering this. It's very hard to sometimes crystallise it, but this informal kind of community support. I think, where I think there's potential is I think we could actually promote ourselves or promote the practice of facilitation more on social media, and perhaps be more structured about that. I would really like to use the, we have the IAF Global website, which is currently being updated. I would like to see that also used as a vehicle to promote, share, practice and support the community. I feel there's quite a lot of things we can do around diversity and also connecting up with our global community. So these are some of the things I find interesting and exciting, and I feel we could do more in these spaces, we could perhaps do more to support other chapters in our region as well. So there's some of the topics, I think, Oh, that's interesting. I feel my energy rising when I think about that. So there's quite a lot of opportunities. And it's just there's, again, there's so many opportunities and ideas, and there's only so much time and so much money at the bank. So so I think lots of opportunities, but we have to take a realistic perspective on it as well.
H.J Opportunities tempered with a bit of fear, bit of can we actually do this stuff? And your time as chair is coming to an end at the end of this year, I think. So what's next for you? What are you going to do with all those spare hours?
J.C So I have really, even though it's been very challenging and time consuming and sometimes frustrating, I've absolutely loved the opportunity to be a situational or servant leader for this chapter. It's been a wonderful opportunity for me. It's reconnected me with a lot of leadership practice that I hadn't really done for a little while. So so I'm really keen to stay involved with our chapter and stay on the leadership team and support a new chair, whoever that will be in 2025. I also want to continue developing my own facilitation practice. And I think the thing that's come out of it for me, there's two things, one more opportunity to do leadership in life, and I'm pretty confident I want to replace, replace, I'm definitely going to be pursuing, probably a trusteeship with another organisation as I think that's a really nice segue from from what I've done here, but a slightly different way of doing that. So I like to be busy, and I, I like to serve. I don't want to say be too idealistic and optimistic, but there is something wonderful about feeling that you are doing some good public service, or some good service for others without it being a huge strain on yourself. It's really good to know that you are committing some personal time to some activities, which we hope are going to do good in the world.
H.J Thank you so much for talking to me today. I've just got one last question, and that is, how can we get in touch with you? So if people want to talk more to you, what, how should we get in touch with you?
J.C The easiest way to get hold of me is via LinkedIn. I've got a LinkedIn profile and I'm on LinkedIn very frequently. That's guaranteed. And you can also reach me by the email address for the chair.
H.J We'll put any contact emails and your LinkedIn link in the show notes afterwards.
J.C Brilliant.
H.J Thank you so much, Jane, and I will see you soon.
J.C Thank you very much. What a wonderful opportunity to be interviewed by you. Thank you so much Helen.
H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF, England and Wales.
N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved, all of the links are on our website. Facilitationstories.com
H.J And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use?
N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?
H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about?
N.W Send us an email at podcast@IAF-Englandwales.org .
H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more facilitation stories.
N.W Until then, thank you for listening.
| |||
| 13 Jun 2023 | FS56 Facilitating a Multi-Faceted Project with 4 Facilitators | 00:53:02 | |
In this episode, Pilar talks to fellow podcast team members Helene and Nikki, along with Penny Walker and Shanaka Dias about a global, hybrid process they facilitated together, running over 4 days with multiple languages and timezones. They reflect on planning in advance, adapting in the moment and working well as a team. The full transcript is below. All of the team can be found on LinkedIn: Penny Walker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pennywalker/ Shanaka Dias https://www.linkedin.com/in/shanaka-dias-8765b51/ Helene Jewell https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Pilar Orti https://www.linkedin.com/in/pilarorti/
And you can find all of the links to IAF England and Wales on the Facilitation Stories website: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ SPEAKERS PO – Pilar Orti HJ – Helene Jewell NW – Nikki Wilson PW- Penny Walker SD – Shanaka Dias
PO 00:03 Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of facilitators also known as IAF. My name is Pilar Orti and I have the absolute pleasure of recording today with not one guest, not two, not three, but four. So first of all, let me introduce fellow co-hosts of the show Helene Jewell, hello, Helene.
HJ 00:26 Hello, nice to see you.
PO 00:30 Nikki Wilson. Hello, Nikki.
NW Hello.
PO 00:33 And I then like to welcome back to the show Penny Walker who first appeared in episode two of this show. So welcome back, Penny.
PW 00:40 Thanks very much. It's lovely to be here.
PO 00:43 And finally, first time guest and someone I've never chatted to before Shanaka Dias, welcome to the show.
SD 00:50 Thank you. Thank you for having me.
PO 00:52 So to have some proper introductions, I've asked each guest to prepare just two lines to introduce themselves. So we're going to say the same order in which I introduced you so that you'll know when it's coming. So Helene Jewell, we'd like to introduce yourself.
HJ 01:06 Hello,I'm Helene. I'm a freelance facilitator based in Bristol, and I work cross sector with all kinds of clients and Yeah, mostly team organisational development and strategy stuff.
PO 01:18 Excellent. Thanks, Helen and Nikki Wilson.
NW 01:21 Hello, I'm Nikki, I'm based in Essex and I run a social purpose business focusing on facilitation, research and strategic support. And as a facilitator, I particularly enjoy working on Deliberative Public Eengagement projects and Action Learning.
PO 01:39 Thank you. Thanks, Nikki and Penny Walker.
PW 01:42 Thanks, Pilar. I'm Penny. I'm an independent facilitator based in North London, and my specialism, I suppose is working with clients to have more effective conversations about tricky things. Maybe because they're complicated or there's conflict, or there's multiple parties. And those conversations are mainly about sustainable development topics. It might be climate change, it might be biodiversity loss. It might be I don't know social enterprises coming together. So those kinds of conversations. Yeah.
PO 02:14 Thanks, Penny, and Shanaka Dias.
02:17 Hello, I'm Shanaka. I'm based in London. I'm a freelancer. I work in the social sector with charities and foundations. And I guess my specialism is bringing people together to firstly have difficult conversations and to look at ways to come together around measure mission and vision and strategy.
PO 02:40 Thank you Shanaka. Thank you very much. Right. So the reason we have you all together for this very special episode, and we're really testing the platform as well, is that you all facilitated a trilingual hybrid session back in January 2023. Is that correct?
PW That's right. PO Yeah. So I'm going to be discovering what you did along with the listener and what your challenges were. So let's start with how did this collaboration start? And maybe Penny, you can kick us off?
PW 03:12 Thanks. Yes. So I'm trained to use a particular process called the Organisational Mapping Tool, which is something that is promoted by the Ford Foundation, a philanthropic funder based in the US, and one of the grantee organisations needed to use this tool as part of the grant conditions, and because I'm on the list, they came to me and they said, could you run this for us? And they said it’s a little bit complicated, because we're going to it's going to be hybrid, and we know this, and I was not very comfortable with that. And I said, “Well, that is you know, it's going to cost you more, we're going to need a bigger team. And you know”, they said y”es, that's fine, we're comfortable with hybrid£. And they said, “Oh, and by the way, we also need to do it in three languages. So and by the way, we would like to have other meetings going on, kind of with the people who are in the room together over the time”, so I knew that I needed a big team. Nikki has worked with me before using this particular process once so I thought that she would be my first kind of “go to” person and I know that Helene had a great time helping out make the IAF England and Wales conference hybrid a couple of years ago, so I thought, I wonder if Helene will be up for being on the team. And then I asked I asked them who else they knew who they thought might be up for it and Nikki recommended Shanaka so that was how we came to be working together.
PO 04:42 Nice. Oh, I love that because of the you some of you have worked together there was a new elements into the into the four so I love it. Excellent. Nice and who were their participants then? If one of you feels like giving us just an overview of who they Were where they were located. And just a little bit of the logistics around the event. Helene.
HJ 05:05 So the participants were the staff from this organisation. And they were based in several different countries. And I can't completely remember which countries they were based in, but we had probably, Penny may tell me, I'm wrong, half of them in the room, and another half in different countries over Zoom. And so yeah, it was bringing their different different staff members from within the organisation together.
PO 05:34 And the people who were online, were they in their other countries together and online or individually online,
NW 05:41 I think it was quite a mixture, mostly on their own. Some of them were in the same country, but not sitting in a location together.
PO 05:50 Okay, so at least you had that and Penny can you do remember the countries of the participants?
PW 05:59 So we had some, we were working across multiple time zones, which was another kind of design challenge. So we had some people in Sub Saharan Africa, we had some in South America. I'm not sure if the people who were in kind of Asia Pacific managed to join us. And the other interesting thing about it was that we had some people who started online, and then were able to join us in the room, and vice versa. So there was someone who tested positive for COVID, partway through who went from being in the room to online. So that changed, so we needed to have really good understanding of who our participants were. And each morning, we would sit down with our key kind of client liaison and find out who was going to be in the room and who was going to be online, and what languages they were comfortable speaking in so that we could think about how we might do breakout groups, I can see Helene is rubbing her eyes, even just at the memory of it.
HJ 06:58 It's funny, because on the one hand, I sort of I remember, you know, I loved the challenge of being kind of quite, you know, think on our feet and all the rest of it. On the other hand, when I recall some of the elements, I think so “how did we do that?”
PO 07:11 Wow. So over four days. So that's interesting. Before we go into maybe how you prepared for it? Does that mean that during the four days? Did that look like you ,were you meeting before each session together? How are you checking in with the client who wants to have a bash? Penny go for it.
PW 07:32 So we, it was over four days, but each day, we only worked on this particular event for half of the day. So the people who were in the room had other side meetings when they weren't in session. And that helped us overcome some of the timezone difficulties. And the other thing about it that people will be interested to hear is that three of our team were in the room, so Helene and Shanaka, and me were with the client and Nikki actually did all her work online. So our check-ins were over Zoom, so that we could make sure that that Nikki was there. And it also meant that Nikki was able to give us a really good insight as to what the online experience was like, because try as you might if you're in the room, that's that's the thing that pulls you. And it's very easy to neglect or not have a proper understanding of what the online experience is like.
NW 08:30 Yeah, I think sort of adding to that. The fact that I was purely online, and there was no temptation to even be in the room, I was in a completely different location made that a very pure experience as well. I think if we'd ended up swapping on and offline, it would have been, that would have been a bit more blurred. But it was very clear to me that I was experiencing it just as someone who was joining from anywhere else in the world apart from obviously, that English is my first language, so I didn't have that added layer, but I think that that really made it very focused on this is what the online experience is like.
PO 09:07 Yeah. And did you have interpreters as well? Is that right?
PW 09:11 Yeah. So the client tries to be, it's part of their push to be very inclusive and to make sure that they have for the work they're doing in country that it's with people who are from that country rather than, you know, white, Northern World kind of people parachuted in. So they they have quite a lot of experience of working in English, French and Spanish. And so they already had, not in-house, but they had interpreters who they have worked with a lot in the past and they taught us about Zoom’s interpretation channel, which I don't think any of us had used before, so that was quite exciting. And they also were very comfortable using a translation software called Deepl, which I had not come across before, but does seem to be a kind of a really good bit of automatic translation software. So they were quite used as an organisation to at least trying to make that work. And that was something that I definitely felt I learned from the experience.
PO 10:24 Wow very heavy tech. Helene, were you going to say something?
HJ 10:27 No, I was just saying I had used the interpretation, software on Zoom before, but never, not with three different languages going on. And most certainly not with hybrid. So I think that the challenge was the sort of the added, you know, added bonus of not just one logistical challenge, which is working in three languages, but obviously, the hybrid element and making those two things work together.
PO 10:51 So you had everything interpretation, timezones, online versus in person and, and going and people turning up switching, I've never come across that, like people switching between the two mediums. So let's talk a bit about how you prepared for it. Shanaka, I'm going to go to you. Because for me, it feels like you were the one that was coming into, these three people already knew each other, so how did the group preparation look like? And also, from your point of view, what are some of the things you remember from the beginning of the process?
SD 11:26 I'm thinking back to it. So um, we had a quiet, a really structured plan. So Penny put together a really structured plan. But at the same time, we sort of knew we would have to be adaptable to that. So we tried as much as we could to look at the languages that people spoke, put them into groups, we tried to think about how we could mix up the group so that the same people speaking the same languages weren't only speaking to each other all the time. So we also tried to look at who was multilingual and mix up those groups, that had varying levels of success. And we also wanted to try and make sure that it wasn't just the people online speaking to each other, that they would be able to speak to people in the room as well. And that had varying levels of success as well. So we a lot of planning went into it. But then we had to adapt on the fly as things turned up, because there were a lot of moving parts. And I think the one thing that really stood out was just how well we managed to work together around that. And part of that was down to, I think, having clear roles. So we really defined what we were doing. We swapped out Helene and I swapped on the day because we were both in the room. So on each day, we would swap out what we're doing, and have a turn at it, but at the same time, even though we had clearly defined roles, we were flexible enough to help each other when different things started to happen. And that worked really, really well. The client, were really surprised that this was the first time that we were working together we were we got some great compliments off the back of that.
PO 13:09 Nice. Anything else to add about that preparation?
PW 13:13 Well, I think I, I wasn't really sure how to bring us together as a team and how to how to prepare for it. And I think I fell back on just trusting that if we got to know each other a little bit, that would be a really helpful platform. So our first kind of planning meetings when when we first kind of talked about it. Think I invested a bit of time in getting people just to say, kind of talk about their work and what they were interested in and what they were comfortable doing and not comfortable doing. And out of that emerged a little bit of what would be appropriate roles. And I think the team, let me know that if we did it, not that we necessarily would want to because it was very challenging. But if we did something like this, again, that the lead facilitator role in the room could be shared out a bit more than we did. I think I held on to that because I was anxious about, the thing that maybe hasn't come across so much in this conversation yet is how prescriptive the process was that we needed to go through using this Organisational Mapping Tool, which was a survey a whole staff survey of maybe, actually when you count them up individually, over 80 questions, and we needed to present the data and then get the group to kind of come to consensus around what the group score was based on the data and to have conversations about it. And there were glitches with the, with the form that was provided. So actually, some of the questions didn't properly record the data that people that, the responses that people put in Shanaka spent a lot of time between sessions combing through that manually and and brought a lot to that, and then so there was a lot of prescription in the process. And I kind of felt that I needed to make sure that we got through that, perhaps at the expense of the more interesting, creative, flexible kind of conversations that you might want to have when you bring all your staff together for for that amount of time. So I definitely felt some tensions. And it came. One of the things I thought about was the different kinds of compromises that we might need to make as a team. You know, we know we've got a compromise to make here. Are we going to favour this or that in the design and so on?
PO 15:33 Helene did did want to add something go for it, Helene?
HJ 15:36 Yeah, no, it was just the in that planning phase. So because Penny and Nikki had use this tool before, and were familiar with it, I think that was that was a really kind of interesting, but helpful dynamic, that they could bring their experience of having used it before. And I think that obviously informed the plan. But in that process, and in that, sort of uncovering the prescriptiveness as Penny's just said, I realised, one of the things I realised was that Shanaka in particular, is very good detail and I myself find very not a detailed person. So that I think then informed how we sort of played to our strengths when it actually came to working together because of the glitches and as Penny said, in the form, and the various things sort of to do with that detail of getting the data weren't quite as we wanted, Shanaka was able to sort of jump in and help. And then actually, as we, we did move on our feet throughout the process, it was that detailed kind of what I call Excel spreadsheet, nightmare stuff, I really didn't want to run away from that, but I realised he was really good at so that helped, you know, helped us work together to find and focus on a bit that we knew we were, you know, we could add to more
PO 16:49 Thank you, Shanaka is there something you wanted to add?
SD 16:54 Yes, actually, I was, I was gonna say, we, the overall feeling for me is we each held our space really well. So I was comfortable that Nikki was holding the space for the online group, so that I could let that go. And I could focus on the some of the detail and fixes that were needed. I was comfortable that Penny was holding the space in terms of the whole thing and giving us the space to work on some of the issues that we were having. And I was comfortable that Helene would be looking after the sort of people elements of it, and sort of providing that creative boost and the energy that was really, really needed. So that gave me the headspace to focus on dealing with some of the issues that we were having. And that was a very comfortable space to be in, even though all these things are happening at the same time.
PO 17:46 Thank you, Nikki talking about the preparation, maybe that you had to do to be online? Do you feel there was anything that was different or similar? How was that how was preparing to be the person who was holding the online cohort?
NW 18:05 Well, it was, it's very interesting, because I don't consider myself a techy person in particular at all. So having that as my kind of responsibility was quite interesting. So yeah, so that was quite interesting, I think particularly thinking about the multilingual aspects, the fact that they were going to be the interpreters who were joining online as well, and that they were sort of part of my cohort. But they were also supporting people in the room occasionally, was quite interesting. I think, as a person, I really like to plan everything. And so the kind of weekend before I was there, trying to arrange, you know, who would be in what breakout and how I could, and I had all these spreadsheets and lists and things. Of course, when it got into the room that went completely out of the window. And I had a notebook and a pen, and I was scribbling names down going, “well, this person's here today and that person isn’t” and so I think, yeah, it was, it was probably quite a big lesson in thinking, well, you know, in many ways it does is not a use a good use of time to really spend lots of time preparing for those kinds of things. But I knew that for my own peace of mind, I needed to feel like I've done as much as I could to prepare for it. And then if I needed to wing it in the room, that was fine, because there was nothing more I could have done. So I think there was that aspect to it.
I suppose just thinking about how we made sure that there felt like there was a level of equal space for online and in the room people and I think that's that's an ongoing challenge with an event like this, because there is no way that those experiences are the same. And I had some people who were joining at sort of 4am in the morning, and for some of them, it was the middle of the night, you know, their energies were different at different times a day and I couldn't really have anticipated that but I think we was just trying to be as conscious as possible that there were these kinds of two parallel experiences and that we were going to need to learn as we went as to how that worked.
PO 20:11 Nice. Thank you. And just touching on that, I think, yeah, let's touch on that, on the, the experience of the people in the room and the online. So let's focus on the hybrid aspect. What were some of the things that you, you planned? And the ones that one were they what are some of the things that you did in order to, to keep it as one whole, like a feeling of sense of whole?
PW 20:37 Well, I think it'd be lovely to hear from everybody on this, because I think we'll have different perspectives. But there was one thing that we did, that was I think it's fair to say that I was quite uptight at the beginning of the process, and by the time we got to maybe the beginning of day three, I felt able to kind of make jokes I'd be, I'd be a bit more relaxed. But we did a kind of an icebreaker, where we knew we couldn't get everyone because a very large group, we knew we couldn't get everyone to speak. But I asked some questions that were a bit like the kind of “the sun shines on” kind of process. So I asked “who is currently the, or who has been the furthest north in the world?”. And we got a story from people who thought they probably had been the furthest north, and then who's been the furthest south, and we got stories from people who thought they'd been further south, and then “who's, who's nearest the equator now?”. And that was a way of making sure that we brought in at least, there was an opportunity for some of the people online who I knew would be geographically,we weren't very near the Equator in the UK, so there was that question and that worked quite well to, to bring in the people who were online, because we knew just by geography, that, that would be an opportunity for them to say something. We also asked about, who's got who thinks they've got the most unusual pet? And someone, actually, who was, who was joining online from their garden, picked up a tortoise and showed it to the camera. And we've got some other great kind of pet related stories. And then I also, at a different time, asked people to tell us about a local delicacy, that's a food that's special to your, to your kind of country or culture that you think other people won't have eaten. And we did get quite a good variety of, of stories. And I think that was the question that got the most engagement from people online. And also probably challenged the interpreters, poor things. But, but let's hear from some of the others ,
PO 22:36 That's great, for it, Helene.
HJ 22:38 Yeah, so from a technical point of view, rather than a process point of view, necessarily. I know, one thing that we got good feedback on was the fact we had a participant cam, which was, so they weren't unused to having hybrid meetings, , but the way that I think they commonly did them was just, you know, they had one camera, and it was kind of less, you couldn't see the room necessarily couldn't see individuals speaking and we had a tablet that Shanaka, I took turns in sort of running around the room, if you like, taking the camera, the tablet camera up to a participant, so you could speak directly into it. And apparently, that was really appreciated. So although it was a bit of, room space wasn't as easy as it might have been, there were a few things to kind of, logistical challenges of moving around it, let's say, but actually, I'm pleased that we managed to sort of do that quite often, you know, all the time to sort of help people to kind of actually, you know, show when they were speaking each time.
PO 23:39 And it's so nice when you have such a low tech process, like with an iPad, but that actually people see like you, you really are as a person making a genuine effort to include everyone. It's not just that you've got the best tech in the world, and you can do it. So anything else about what you did as a group, but also what you did personally maybe would be interesting. Nikki, Shanaka, if there is something so what else?
SD 24:04 I think just one additional thing that popped into my mind is we had to think about the translators as well. And we did get feedback, at one point that people were, they were finding it a bit difficult to translate at the speed that they were talking to. So we had regular reminders, once we had that feedback to get people to slow down, and I think we had a picture of a tortoise on the wall that we drew as a reminder for people to slow down as well. So we had to take that into consideration too.
PO 24:36 Wow, that dynamic you're trying to create all this energy and all this cohesion, but you've got to slow it down. That is like a real effort to keep the momentum while the speed can't go. Yeah, anything else
NW 24:51 As a team as well, that that kind of very set space where we reflect it together online as a team really It was beneficial that we, you know, we, we invested quite a bit of time in kind of a debrief for kind of how did it go? What can we do tomorrow kind of thing. So I didn't ever feel like through the team in the room although I was aware they were doing things that I was not party to, we were still always checking in so that we sort of had that grounding together each day. And that I felt like we'd had actually walked through what to expect rather than just being sent a plan by email that the others had all discussed, I think there was that important aspect of feeling like a hybrid team as much as creating a hybrid event for the participants as well, from my perspective, at least that that really was important to me, because I could easily have felt like I was just there to press buttons, really. So it's really important.
PO 25:52 Wow, from an inclusivity point of view, there's so many dimensions like you had okay, how do you feel as a team that you're all still together? How participants with the timezone aspect with the translators? Any anything about how you worked with the client, either anything you want to bring up either before, during, after Penny?
PW 26:13 Yeah, so the client had used the venue a lot before and was very confident that it would be fine. But I felt that I couldn't just rely on that. So I actually went to visit the venue, even though it was, it was a long way to go I took a whole day to go and visit the venue. But I think I might have even built that into my costing. So I think I knew when I did the costing, that would be important. And fortunately, it was quite close to where Helene’s based, so Helene was able to come along as well. So actually two of the team had been to visit the venue and we had a much better idea of its limitations. The room was very dark, for example. So that meant it was even more important that we make an effort with the participant cam so that people online could get some sense of who was there rather than everyone being in shadow. The venue also did have in theory, Wi Fi everywhere, but we we stumbled when we tried to set up a hybrid breakout group in one particular area of the venue where it just wasn't up to it. So that was that was a bit tricky.
PO 27:25 And think about the client who are working through Yes.
PW 27:29 Oh, sorry. Yes, that's that was the thing. So what that? Sorry, I forgot what your question was. So all of that was around, that meant that Helene, and I got to meet a couple of people from the client team, they were extremely responsive, and really, that lovely mixture that you sometimes get with a client of being really competent and capable, but also quite laid back and flexible. So I think that really helped us and we met with them, they came to help us set up a couple of hours before the first session. So we were doing things together, we were swapping out bits of equipment that belonged to the client organisation or that we had brought with us. And we also included them in different debriefs. And I think that worked. I think that worked really well. And there was a, there was a point at which which we might come on to a little bit later, where the group kind of told us that they didn't like the process. And I think that was that was a really useful thing for us to have already built a sense of trust with the with the kind of client team that actually we personally, I sometimes feel anxious that I you know, am I performing well enough for the client? Am I you know, am I giving good service? and that sometimes is an anxiety for me, which makes, which can lead to me being inflexible. But I think we've built up enough of a good relationship, that actually flexibility at that point didn't feel like an admission of failure, like, oh, I should have planned this better. It just felt like a really natural thing to do in response to the group.
PO 29:04 Yeah, well, we will pick up on on that. Helene, anything else to add about working with a client?
HJ 29:10 Yeah, I was just thinking about the fact that we went to visit the venue beforehand. And how we also looked at just because I think I had tech focus as my role, partly, one of the things we did was find out what equipment they commonly use, because they work internationally, having hybrid meetings is not something that is they're not used to. So I think, us finding out what they used and trying to work with it rather than coming along and saying, “No, we're not going to use that, we've got this special way of doing it, we're going to do it our way”. For me that felt quite important, that we built on what they had already, and tried to adapt it and add to it rather than just kind of you know, come in with our own system because I think then that helped make the setup a bit more a bit easier.
PO 29:58 Thank you. So we will already started to hear and listeners, they're all nodding at each other I have to tell you, it's like everyone's like,” yeah”. So, you've already started to, to mention some of the things that didn't quite work as well, maybe or, or that that could have worked better that you found out, you needed to adjust. So Shanaka, I'm gonna go back to you when you were talking about one of the challenges was about mixing people who were more comfortable with one language than another. You mentioned this earlier, that one of the ways in which you prepared to bring everyone together was by mixing people with different first languages and that, but you said it didn't go as well as? Or that there were some problems or I don't know how you phrased it. Can you tell us a little bit about that, how that looked like, and what were the issues that came up?
SD 30:48 Oh, I was more on the one of the responding party for this so there might be more detail coming from Nikki or Helen. Oh, great.
PO 30:56 So you were an observer?
SD 30:58 But yeah, yes, I think it was more. In particular, the one that comes to mind was when the Internet wasn't working properly. And we had a mixed group. And we'd planned how who would be in the groups, so we could swap them out. And we knew that we were quite careful to make sure that people could speak the right languages, and that people would feel supported both online and offline. But because the Internet didn't work, our groups weren't working. So they sort of came and ran to us and say, “This isn't working, we need to do something, can we like, join another group?”, which then threw our plans out of who was in what group. So then we were just having to respond to all of that. And we were able to, it was a bit touch and go. But yeah, the client had an idea of what they wanted to do, and to get around it. And we just supported them through that. But yeah, our original plan didn't work. So we just adapted around it. And then we needed to keep track of who was where. So a lot of moving parts. But the client seemed happy afterwards. So they were okay with it. We were just a little bit stressed and had a few more wrinkles
PO 32:07 Oh the internet. And how about, yes, Nikki, we're going to say something.
NW 32:12 There was this sort of this kind of mindset shift that we needed to do of kind of the ideal world of what a perfect hybrid would look like, and the reality of what was achievable, that what was practical and didn't involve so much kind of complication that it took away from the process, I think I was very conscious that there was one group that were online, who more or less work together throughout the same process. But that was partly because there are a number of people who only spoke French, so we couldn't swap them in and out. And although we could bring other people in, they needed to all be together all the time, because of the way that the translation interpretation worked. And the fact that they were all online, so we couldn't do this kind of hybrid with the room. So I think in the ideal world, we would have swapped them around. In reality, I'm not sure it really took away from the experience. And it was very clear that we planned differently, but that, you know, practical barriers were in the way. So I think even that ethos of kind of, we're gonna try our best to make this mixed and, you know, interactive, but at least if everybody has a discussion that they can participate in, and that we try our best to kind of bring people together in the plenary sessions to kind of interact, then, you know, it was that, as I say, it was that balance between pragmatism and the ideal world, really, that we needed to keep revisiting all the way through,
HJ 33:41 I was thinking about the groups and the way, we had to kind of really keep an eye on the groups. And we did try and set up some mixed hybrid online and in person groups. And then we had, as I said, the different language groups, and we tried to mix them up at a fair bit. But in doing that, also, we, the bit that wasn't apparent to anybody online is that this venue had a number of different buildings. It wasn't just, it wasn't a hotel, let's say we've got, you know, shiny breakout rooms, it was spread over a little bit of a, an area. So Shanika, and I between us did spend a fair amount of time walking between buildings to check in the groups as well. So there was an added dimension of us having to actually, you know, physically go between different places and also work out which corners and which buildings have the right, the best Wi Fi. So there was there was another added level, if you like, running around trying to sort that out.
PO 34:39 Yeah, go for it Penny.
PW 34:41 So I'm just thinking, I can't believe we've got this far into the conversation and not mentioned the fact that we had a Miro board it was a place where we displayed the data, so the results the kind of responses to each question. And it was also the place where we expected groups to take, to write their kind of notes about, you know, that whatever discussion they'd had about the, the area of the survey that they'd been allocated. And it was also the place where we took notes in plenary of the conversations. And I'm not sure if we would make a different decision about how, I think we definitely needed a virtual space of some kind for written material. Some people found it, they were very unfamiliar with it, very unconfident using it. And there were also some particular aspects of Miro to do with whether you can pin things down, how movable things are on the board, whether things get lost. And also, if you type too much before clicking, somehow your text gets, there was one session where we had to basically remember afterwards, what had happened in the session for the plenary notes, because because we hadn't realised that Miro has a character limit, and everything had been written, but it somehow wasn't there.
HJ 36:02 So yeah, so fess up, it was me who was typing merrily, So Shanaka, and I took it in turns to live type, plenary conversation. So there was, you know, great, groups were feeding back. Penny was facilitating Shanaka andI took it in turns to type up the notes. And so I was merrily typing in Miro, and then eventually realised that it wasn't, I was typing, but nothing was on the Miro board, because it does have this character limit. So we were really quickly able to recall what we needed to and put it in a Google Doc. And actually, I think it is a lesson that just choose something simple when you're doing something like that, like a Google Doc or whatever, to, you know, type all the stuff you need to and then we can put it back into the Miro board later, it would have been much less stressful. But that's yeah, lesson learned.
PO 36:50 Listeners, they're all throwing their hands to their heads and nodding and smiling, and you can just feel the pain looking at them, Nikki?
NW 36:59 Well, actually, I'm honestly not because I didn't know anything about that. So you've never told me that, which is really interesting. I had no idea it was all fixed by the morning. But we did it at the very end piece. We might be jumping ahead here. But we asked for a longer form bit of writing. And in the end, I think a number of them defaulted to doing a Google Doc or something and just sending it to us. And you know, at the end of the day, they were able to read out some of the things that they'd said, and we didn't actually need all of the detail on the Miro board then and there. And we were able to capture it in a different way. So again, there's that is always that balance, isn't it between something that if it worked perfectly would be the ideal tool. And then there's the practical aspects of people needing to use it other people with that kind of tech when they haven't got great internet access, when they're not all as familiar with technology. And but yes, I can't believe that there was that issue that I had no idea about? Because you obviously were fixing it, probably late into the night when I was tucked up in my bed. But yeah,
SD 38:08 I would say um, once again, that was that was in a way, that was a lovely moment as well, because I remember the stress of us realising the notes, were not there. A significant portion of notes were not there. And Penny, you just came in and held the space and said, Okay, let's prove, and let's look at what we can do. We've all worked, you know, we can start taking notes from what we remember. And then together, we sort of all brought it together. But it really helps having that calm space to do that, rather than everybody getting worried. So it worked quite well in the end. But it was a stressful moment.
PO 38:41 Yeah, for you. It's great when you can say how much you learned from it, and how well it was handled? Yes, plenty.
PW 38:50 So So I've experienced a funny sort of split personality at those sorts of moments, because I think about how terrible I would feel if if, if that were me, and and if I were about to get kind of told off for having made such a terrible mistake. And so I kind of feel that anxiety. And at the same time, I'm thinking like some other great facilitators who I've worked with where I've been part of the team and they've been the lead facilitator, you know, what would they have done at this moment, that would have been the perfect thing for me to be on the receiving end of and try to channel that. So being able to say, look, you know, nobody died. We can, we can only do what we can do, let's see what we remember, you know, we're all doing a fantastic job. And I felt it was really important to keep reminding myself and and the team I kind of felt that slight sense of team leader responsibility to remind us all of how great we were doing as it went along because different different ones of us had different moments. Whether it was beforehand, you know, Nikki's described worrying about what the grouping was going to be Like, or whether it was kind of partway through, you know, we can, we can do a better job if we're all just realising that we're already doing a great job, and that it's all fine. And that the whatever solution we come up with, you know, will be a good solution
PO Thanks, Nikki
NW 40:16 And I think this, this, again, might not be the right moment for this. But I think that, then what Penny said just had a particular resonance for me around this kind of team energy that actually having four of us in the team, that clearly this was a very intense process, it was quite tiring, even though I was sort of, I was really buzzing at the end, which is this, again, this weird kind of mix. But that we probably all had dips and peaks of energy at different times. And we were able to adapt to that and kind of carry each other through, you know, like somebody's having a difficult moment with something. And we were probably, even though we weren't all together, we were aware that someone was having to focus on fixing something or whatever, the rest of us could just go, alright, we'll deal with everything else. And it was sort of one of those things where probably we hadn't really engineered it, it just happened. And it was just really fortunate that as a group, we were able to work well in that way. Because we probably all have a slightly different energy about us, things that we bring to a space that the others don't. And so there was just this kind of really fortunate gelling of the team, which allowed us to kind of maintain a fairly consistent energy outwardly whilst having dips and peaks individually. So yeah.
PO 41:40 That's a really nice point. So before we, before we start to wrap up and just ask you, I'm going to just ask you individually for some reflections, don't we'll just go around the four of you. But I did want to come back. Just just to touch on. Penny, you mentioned that at some point, the participants or the group said that they were not liking the process. Is that right? So what happened?
PW 42:04 Well, there were two aspects of the process that people didn't like. One was how kind of laborious and time consuming going through the survey was. And I would say that they were right. It is boring and time consuming. And it's kind of a mandatory part of the process. And in a way, my strategy at that point was to was to be on their side and say, yeah, it is that but it's a funding requirement. So you know, let's, let's just make the let's make the best of it. The second bit was the bit where it got interesting from a participant conversation point of view was when they had been through the whole survey, and they had an opportunity to prioritise three aspects of all of the things that the survey covered it to look at it in more detail. And I proposed, I think, I think my proposal was that on day four, we would spend our time doing that deep dive using a kind of, I think I suggested a carrousel process. Or maybe we weren't divided into six groups to start with, do a kind of bit of a brainstorm on what good looks like for each of the three priorities. In fact, in the end, the group rebelled even more and had four priorities even though the process prescribes three. And that they would then I can't even remember what I proposed, it was either that they would do it as a carousel, or that they would just have to pick one. And just deep dive on that. And they said, “Actually, we don't want to do that we we want to give an opportunity for everybody talk about the thing that they're most interested in”. And I think because we had talked about it quite exhaustively as a team, because I was conscious that there wasn't actually a single perfect bit of process. We talked about, shall we do it this way? Shall we do it that way? Shall we carousel it? Shall we do it in three groups? Do people get to choose their groups? How important is it that all of the three priorities get kind of equal number of people talking about them? Because we had, because I changed my mind quite a lot and talked through some different options with the team. I felt like I was like, I had a kind of unwritten mandate from the rest of the team to basically say, okay, yeah, we there isn't a perfect process here. You know, I can see what the downsides are of your suggestion, which was that they divide into small groups and each group work on the one it's most interested in to start with, and then choose other ones and basically have an opportunity to work through up to four priorities. In the time that we had, I felt able to say, “ Okay, well, I can see that there are some downsides to this. And as long as you're happy to accept those potential downsides to accept those risks, then absolutely, you know, do it the way you want.” And we had a bit of conversation back and forth with the people in the room. I'm trying to remember whether anyone online actually got involved with that conversation. It's in my memory, it's very much an it was very much an in the room conversation. But I don't know whether anyone online got involved. Do you remember,
NW 45:23 I don't think particularly because it was quite fast moving and dynamic. Obviously, we hadn't planned that, the conversation to go that way. And it was sort of bouncing around the room. And I suppose on reflection, perhaps kind of advocating more for having a small discussion with the online group might have at least felt like they'd contributed, even though I don't think anybody objected to the way it went, if you see what I mean. I don't think anybody online did but at the same time, it was probably two or three people in the room actually, that proposde something kind of adapted it a bit together, and everyone went, “Okay, that sounds reasonable”. And, you know, we needed to make fairly rapid decision because we only had whatever it was an hour or so left of the day to kind of put people in groups and have this discussion. It’s important to note that this whole process is framed as a starting point, it's actually about opening up the discussion helping people to identify priorities, but it's never meant to kind of be conclusive. And that actually, we were just giving them space to” start teasing out some of the issues within those priorities. But making that clear, as well. And saying, Whatever you do now, is something that you can take away and build on,” we were able to let go of the kind of output of that discussion a little bit more and just go, you know, the value is the fact that this is an opportunity that you don't often have to all come together to discuss these things. And then what happens is your choosing really, so was that really, that helped, again, as well as the fact that Penny had some clear sort of options and parameters that we had considered to then say, you know, we can adapt to this, because we want the out output for you to be as valuable as it could be, you know, we're not hung up on what that looks like, necessarily. So
PW 47:15 I think the other thing about the client organisation, and the group that we were working with, is that compared to most groups, they were quite process literate. I think they probably used quite a lot of participatory conversations of different kinds in their actual work as an organisation. So there were people who had the language and you know, had quite clear rationale for the views that they were expressing about the process that they should use.
PO 47:47 Yeah, I suppose that's, I suppose that's quite unusual as well. Yeah. In such a big group as well. Great. Well, what a nice, I think this is a perfect place to to wrap up. So I'm going to just ask you for some quick reflections. Shanaka, we'll start with you. It could be something that you learned that you enjoy that you want to share with listeners, I'm just going to leave it open. So Shanaka some final words from you. Thank you,
SD 48:12 I've taken a lot of what we've done then actually into other facilitation work. So a lot of learnings and that is very much about letting go of the process. Sometimes even though you can prepare, you can let go of the process and trust the participants to be able to do something, as well as bringing in a bit of humour and icebreakers just to create that bonding. That has worked really well. So yeah, I've taken that into further jobs. And it was just such a lovely team to work with. And that balance of energy, as Nikki said, us holding the space and getting us through the ups and downs just worked amazingly. So it was a great experience. Helene
HJ 48:53 Yeah, I think like Shanaka that allowing for the process to go a little bit sideways. And and that sort of management of that, definitely, I've learnt from that. And I've actually had a client recently that I've, I've really been able to sort of take a step back with and let the participants say that actually, they don't want this. They want it to work a different way. And sort of reflecting on this experience thinking yeah, actually, that that's okay to do that. And I think the other thing is, is this sort of team dynamic as well, and Penny's kind of what I call gentle leadership, you know, we felt very much like a strong team. And I don't often, you know, I'll often facilitate with one other facilitator, but not a team like this and it was just such a rewarding and really positive experience.
NW 49:38 Having done the process twice as well, that was a really interesting reflection, that the previous time that Penny and I had worked through this process, it was all online with it, even though that one in theory was much simpler. I felt that this one was had a much more kind of dynamic energy about it. And I really enjoyed the second one a lot more I think, partly because we felt a bit more able to let go of some of the process. And so there was that comfort in kind of knowing where we were trying to get to, but thinking actually, you know, we can be a bit more flexible with it, it's a kind of constant reminder, really, there's only so much planning you can do. And that, whilst that might give me comfort to feel I've done it. And you know that I do need to do that to feel like when I do need to be flexible, it's fine. You know, like, actually, this is just what's happening in the moment. It's a really a constant personal learning to keep applying that there's a bit that's planning. And there's a bit that just goes, I've planned for the fact that I would know I will need to adapt to this. And I don't know what's going to happen. And actually, that's part of the fun. Having a team alongside you to adapt with makes all the difference, though, because dealing with all of the challenges coming at you on your own is a completely different kettle of fish, I think for me to, to use an unusual phrase, but yeah.
PO 51:00 Great, and Penny.
PW 51:03 Well, so I think my closing reflections are a bit of a, an advert for getting involved in the IAF, whether you're a member or not, because actually, it's not just knowing somebody or having somebody kind of recommended to join part of a team, the fact that that Helene and I had kind of seen each other in action, if you like, at if events and experimented together at events, the fact that Nikki and I had worked together on teams that other people had brought together, there's nothing like feeling Yes, I've worked with that person, you know, albeit not in a client context. I've worked with them, I know that they're, you know, that they can bring something to a team. So anyone out there who's thinking, I don't know how I would bring together a team of additional people to do a piece of work, actually, you know, get involved, whether it's online or in person at some of those events. And, and that way, you know, you'll just have a much broader pool of people who when you need to bring together a team, you can think actually, yeah, I know. I know who I want to ask for this.
PO 52:07 Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for that. It is a great resource. So remember, listeners, that Facilitation stories is brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of facilitators, also known as IAF. Well, thank you very, very much listeners for staying with us. Thank you so much to our guests, Helene Jewell, Nikki Wilson, Shanaka Dias and Penny Walker. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.
And that's the end of today's episode of Facilitation Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on whatever podcast app you use. And if you would like to contribute to the show, you can get in touch via email podcast at IAF-EnglandWales.org Or you can get all the other links from our website Facilitation Stories.com. This has been Facilitation Stories brought to you by IAF England and Wales. | |||
| 02 Jun 2021 | FS33 Changes to our Meetup Groups | 00:10:32 | |
This is a short, bonus episode to let you know about how we've changed the organisation of our Meetups over at Meetup.com. See below for more details. Tuesday, June 8, 2021 Midlands facilitators monthly online coffee meet-up Wednesday, June 9, 2021 South West facilitators monthly coffee meetup
UK & Ireland facilitators virtual coffee meetup https://www.meetup.com/IAF-facilitators-and-friends/events/sthkjsyccjbtb/ Friday, June 25, 2021 Ireland facilitators networking & learning meetup (from our friend group Ireland Facilitators and Friends) https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Ireland-facilitators-and-friends/events/278401212/ ----- We are glad to be able to share with you a change that will make finding and attending the various Meetups much simpler. What’s happening?All Meetups will be merging into the 'London and SE' Meetup group. The 'London and SE' group will be renamed 'IAF England and Wales' to reflect the broader reach.
The transition will start with renaming the group early in May and be complete by the end of May. Why it’s happeningSince Meetups went virtual only, many new connections have been made meaning that geography has been less important. We have also listened to feedback about how attendees actually find which Meetups they want to attend.
So whether you are visiting somewhere for the day, or want to share interests at a virtual gathering, everything will now be under one roof. How it will affect themThis move will put all Meetups in one place meaning that finding a group to attend will be easier than ever, and with fewer notifications and groups to manage. We could all do with a little less admin! | |||
| 22 Mar 2020 | FS13 Voices from our Virtual Meetup | 00:11:28 | |
These are challenging times for facilitators - in this bonus episode, we hear insights from Jonathan Bannister, Paolo Martinez, Koren Stark, Claudia, and Grant Cockerell. 1 April, IAF Global is organising a webinar, on Find out more about us over at the EnglandWales page on | |||
| 09 Aug 2022 | FS46 From Event Organiser to Facilitator of Facilitators | 00:39:02 | |
In today’s episode, Pilar talks to Myriam Hadnes, facilitator and host of the Workshops Work podcast and founder of the Never Done Before festival. Myriam first realised she was a facilitator after she read Priay Parker’s "The Art of Gathering". Her perception of facilitation has broadened since then: she now thinks more of having the mindset of a facilitator as she’s doing less and less pure facilitation, and more training and nurturing of facilitators.
For the next Never Been Done Before festival, it will be the community that organises the event, which feels strange to Myriam. She’s going through similar stages to giving birth and bringing up children, and it’s an emotional process. To hold a space safe enough for everyone to take risks and show unpolished work to other facilitators is Myriam’s main role now. 21.30mins They have two homes online: one for asynchronous communication, and they also have a community garden on Welo https://www.welo.space/. This space is open all the time, for people to hop in, meet others, and even run their own sessions. Creating the habit for people to use this space has been interesting. First they called it a co-working space, but very few people would drop in. It finally kicked off when they started to schedule sessions there, and rename it to and design it as a “community garden”. 28.00mins The results: at the beginning of the pandemic, many clients expected online events to be cheaper than in person, or even free - now this has changed, and the rates are more or less the same (sometimes online is more expensive). Geographically, the rates in the US are higher than everywhere else. Now that the world has woken up to the power of facilitation, and understands the value of a well facilitated workshops, the overall rates seem to have gone up. Value is a much better parameter to cost around than hours. Myriam believes you can actually go deeper when you run sessions in the online world, because breakout rooms are truly private spaces, rather than the group work done in person, where many groups still share the same physical space in practice. As facilitators, we need a mindset shift: clients don’t want a “workshop”, they want specific outputs. (And will these be achieved with one workshop?) Myriam hosts a show called “Workshops Work”, and she’s now past the 170 episodes. https://workshops.work/podcast/
The next Never Been Done Before festival will run on 18 Nov 2022. https://neverdonebefore.org/ | |||
| 20 Jan 2022 | A note to say we're still around and haven't podfaded... | 00:01:07 | |
Just saying hello, we'll be back with a proper episode soon. Let us know you're listening! | |||
| 14 Sep 2021 | FS37 The Power of Facilitation - a panel discussion | 00:58:08 | |
In this episode, Pilar talks to three of the co-authors of the book The Power of Facilitation, which was released this summer of 2021. Our conversation today is a little bit different, as it's an edited recording of the meetup that took place on 7 July 2021, a panel discussion with the authors, with contributions from the other attendees. Martin recalls being stood next to Kimberley at the Ottawa conference in 2018 talking about the book, and how he invited himself to add something he had been working on with Michael Ambjorn about the power of facilitation for communicators. Chitra talks about being introduced in 2018 to the IAF new Delhi circle and discovered that Kimberly was looking for people to illustrate the book and put in an application to do so. Pilar quotes the introduction to the book which is a complication of 10 chapter authors, 4 visual practitioners across 5 continents and 8 time zones. Hector talks about one of the first meetings being about the structure of the book as there needed to be a connection between the chapters. They started with the usual suspects – eg strategic planning and expanded from there. The group looked at who was an expert in what for example several ToP (Technologies of Participation) practitioners, some authors working on big transformation projects and it played to people’s strengths. Martin describes that from the beginning the intention was to have a diversity of authors, chapters and visuals. All continents except Africa are represented, and realised that there is a gap or an opportunity for volume 2 in that there is nothing about digital or online facilitation in the book! Pilar quotes from the book “the team has sought to model a facilitative approach the project throughout” and asks what else comes to mind in how you modelled this approach? Hector mentions how hard it is to facilitate facilitators, and that Kimberly kept everyone together. Martin describes how Kimberly was the driving force and how she took a facilitative approach, also the risks of facilitators all trying to be facilitative! He also talks about it being an experience of online facilitation, and the meetings were check ins and social with collaboration online in Basecamp and describes putting the book together as a “Basecamp memory”. Chitra talks about being a witness to a whole part of the process and how she felt she was one of the youngest and least experienced and it was great to learn and observe. Penny Pullan talks about having written books as solo projects as writing books with others and how editing a book with 27 contributors was much more fun. She asks what the process was like? Martin talks about there being 2,3 or 4 phases starting with the submission of an abstract. They agreed that Kimberly would write the introductory and concluding chapter and shared first drafts and gave feedback, then a second draft for feedback followed by several iterations. He talks about not realising how much there was to do and how the process slowed down as people got busy and then picked up again, with final relief when it was finished. Hector says they all had access to each others’ work but were each in charge of reviewing specific chapters, and everyone got feedback from the editor and at least 2 colleagues. And that as English was not the first language for many people this feedback was fundamental. They were also able to challenge ideas to make sure they were robust. Mike asks about the design and layout and whether this was done by the team. Chitra then talks about the development of the layout and the joint design and an open and inclusive environment. Martin added what a joy it was to discover the additional skills within the team on things like typesetting. Pilar asks about content: Martin talks about the idea for his chapter coming from a conversation with Michael when they were both chairs of the IAF and IABC and how they had started to discuss the interface between communication and facilitation and opportunities to collaborate and learn from each other. So the power of facilitation, communication and partnership which was something they had already been exploring, became the idea for the chapter. He describes how they went about it by interviewing people and the discovery of people who described themselves as hybrid professionals (communicators and facilitators). Martin talks more about what communication professionals do and how this was discussed at an IABC conference he attended and how each profession can add to each other and how he sees the two skill sets as being intertwined. Pilar asks is anyone wanted to add to what Martin has said. Michael says that whatever profession we are in, for example communicators have a lot of facilitator skills and go and talk to people. And a lot of facilitators who are good communicators. Pilar asks Chitra how she approached the visuals and how she captured this in one page: She describes how at first there was a conversation about the 4 visual practitioners aligning themselves on style and what does the book need in terms of stylisation. They were told that it was going to be black and white, and given the dimensions of the book. Everyone wanted the approach to be not as an illustrator but as a graphic facilitator. They were given the time to read it, interpret it and present it as a visual doodle/sketch. Then they shared a first draft with the authors before creating a second draft. Martin and Michael’s chapter is all about exchanging stories and the key idea of personifying what communication is and what facilitation is through representative avatars. She shared my learnings in the first draft and Martin loved the idea of the personas and trusted her first impressions. Trust and cross communication is important. Pilar asks how the process was was working with two authors of a chapter and Chitra giving her own interpretation, compared to working as a visual facilitator Chitra responds by saying with a live event you don’t have the possibility to go back and erase something that has already been captured but it can be edited afterwards by digitalising it. But in the room there is a great sense of trust, and the need to make sure they use the right language and be mindful of that. But even in a live session there is a chance to have interaction with the facilitator. For this work they had the luxury of time, to allow words to sink in, unlike a live session which is spontaneous. Pilar’s next question for Chirtra is when do you decide to use a graphic and when do you use words? She says this is something they do intuitively and explains a bit about where she might use words compared to visuals. Jane asks Martin about his comparison of a communicator facilitating and a facilitator communicating whether they applied the communicators brain in understanding the impact of the book and what you need people to do as a result of reading it? Martin responds by saying that a lot of words didn’t make it into the book, and some were added to the appendices. Michael introduced OASIS (communications planning tool) to clarify purpose of the book and what we they wanted people to be inspired to do. The goal was to promote, inspire and enthuse people about facilitation.
Pilar asks Hector how it was working with someone outing his stuff into a different format (working with Chitra) Hector talks about seeing how your own words are interpreted and how every person makes sense of the message in different ways, and has a mental image of the whole chapter. And that 10 different graphic facilitators may do this in different ways. Each chapter has a different style but all with valid interpretations. Martin says that it was an enjoyable process and recalls conversations looking over the drafts and how it was very collaborative and co-creative, and awars that Chitra was able to provide something that he wouldn’t be able to provide on his own so he didn’t want to interfere too much. He hasn’t been involved in a written process like this but has worked with visual practitioners in live sessions and has always marvelled at their extraordinary skill. Pilar looks at some of the other chapters Hector’s is about the power of facilitation for team development and asks for a brief summary The subject was recommended by Kimberley and Hector does a lot of team development type work. It took him a long time to get started and find a central idea, which was that facilitation can become part of team work for a group. Sometimes people are not aware that they can evolve as a group to become a team and facilitators accelerate the process of becoming a team. He describes this in a bit more detail. Pilar asks if anyone else has any comments about the aspiration of showing a group or a team what they can achieve? David talks about the objective of not needing you anymore and that the power of facilitation is getting people into the attitude of facilitation being where the real power lies. Pilar asks about the power of getting people to do things themselves and how this might look. David talks about facilitation being contagious and that it looks easy and how our responsibility as facilitators is sometimes to say this works and give someone the desire to go and learn. Martin talks about Trevor Durnford and Malin Moren’s Facilitating change and Transformation chapter when they talk about building capacity in large organisations and how the power of facilitation is much more powerful when it is more broadly dispersed and building capacity for others to facilitators which is the motivation for the book. Pilar says that many groups might be being facilitated but not aware what the person in front of them doing is facilitation. And that there is something around naming what we are doing as facilitators. Martin responds by saying that the vast majority of facilitation is done by people who don’t call themselves facilitators and that often they don’t realise that it is facilitation. He doesn’t want to suggest that everyone becomes professional facilitators or rely on professional facilitators. But the profession can help people understand what it is they are doing and provides a language and a framework. David says that facilitation is a mysterious thing and full of secrets. He recollects a conversation with a magician who said that magicians are not keeping secrets for ourselves but for spectators. Facilitation is the opposite - it is full of secrets that we have to give away and have a duty to give them away. Hector talks about a challenge in that more people are using facilitation in that one technique or framework is used for everything and that there is a richness to facilitation that you need to adapt. Many people use conversation structures but is not only the process but also the people.
Pilar has another question for Hector – in his chapter he describes how the facilitator becomes a repository of trust and she asks how do you go about earning that trust? Can we hold the trust? Hector says that the relationships in the groups can be stressed and without much trust. He suggests that we are in a position of power and the group gives you authority, then you have to earn it. You are allowing them to trust one another through you and through the process. By holding with the space – we are making a space for people to trust one another. Pilar asks for any further questions: Suzannah asks about version 2 and what topics they’d really like to cover? Martin – online virtual facilitation, something to do with social inclusion and social change (there is a special interest group in both of these things). Chitra –Something around being upfront when collaborating and the working out loud culture and something around how creative collaboration can work across domains and learning to work to each others’ strengths. Also understanding about the relationship between visual and a process facilitator works. Hector – change management and facilitating in change management or in political change. Suzannah follows on from Hector’s comment about working in the political space and says how she’d want to go into parliament and move around all the chairs! Chitra sums up by saying - The power is within the group.
| |||
| 15 Feb 2022 | FS41 Making Workshops Work with Penny Pullan | 00:31:12 | |
In this episode Pilar talks to Penny Pullan, Director of “Making Projects Work” and author of “Virtual Leadership: Practical Strategies for Success with Remote or Hybrid Work and Teams”, just out in its second edition, and in 2021, “Making Workshops Work: Creative Collaboration for Our Time”. Penny explains that Making Workshops Work was originally contracted and due to be published in 2016 but then the pandemic hit and she focused on writing the book to help people, not necessarily certified professional facilitators, who needed to collaborate. Penny talks about seeing her role as a catalyst for collaboration, making it easy for groups to do the best work they can do. They move on to talking about when Penny first called herself a facilitator. Penny explains that it began when she was running a session for a group where a Senior person said in front of everyone, they were going to leave at lunchtime if the session didn’t improve. Penny opted to give the group a break and admitted to this senior person that she felt out of her depth. They gave her some hints and tips that worked and Penny realised that there is such a thing as facilitation. Penny recalls that what changed in that workshop was that whereas she had always been in a position of giving her perspective as an expert, in facilitation the focus is always about the group and that’s where the spotlight is. The experience of that first workshop was helpful as she realised the importance of learning facilitation skills. They move on to talk about why Penny wrote “Making Workshops Work”. Penny explains that while she’s written other books, she realised that a book for those that come to her facilitation skills courses would be useful. Next they talk about how Penny got into virtual and hybrid facilitation. It began when Penny was working as a Global Programme Manager. The kick off meeting in her first programme was due to be in New York but then 9/11 happened, planes were grounded and the kick off moved to virtual. Penny had just been training in facilitation meaning that she could focus on how to apply the principles of facilitation virtually. Penny ended up writing guidelines on virtual facilitation in the company and then leaving to set up her own company including helping people work in virtual and hybrid ways. Pilar asks about the principles Penny focuses on most that can be applied in person, virtual and hybrid. Penny feels many of the principles are the same, what differs is thinking about the environment and technology. In any session, you need a clear purpose, shared understanding of the goals, a time plan, knowing the roles of the people taking part. In person but more so in virtual is knowing “how are we going to work together today?” and working out what’s right for that session. In hybrid the key challenge is that it’s not a level playing field and as a facilitator it's thinking about how to adjust to that. Pilar asks how Penny decided what to include in the book. Penny says that as she has worked with so many people over the years they helped her to understand the things that other people find tricky and the things they find most useful. She’s recognised the things that develop confidence as well as competence. They talk about real rather than fake confidence. Penny says she didn’t put facilitation in the title of her book as the people she works with are people who need to run workshops but don’t have training in facilitation. For them, building competence builds confidence. Pilar pulls out from the book a list of things great groups have. Penny explains she did some work with Dale Hunter’s company Zenergy in New Zealand. The list is in Dale Hunter’s book “Handling Groups in Action” (UK title). In it they bring out 16 qualities and Penny realised they are the things that great groups have. It starts with simple things like Purpose, Culture, Safety and Trust but then moves on to things that are present when a group is really working well. Pilar reflects on how the list is very specific and helps to think about how she can help and role model the behaviours. Penny highlights this is something that Hunter focuses on particularly in her book. Pilar asks Penny to share a favourite activity. Penny picks out using an affirmation. She asks everyone to take a sticky note for each person and share a great thing about that person. It can sound cheesy but it can help people feel really encouraged and this helps them to build confidence. They finish by talking about Penny’s journey. She now has the title “Master Facilitator” and is studying a Masters in Theological Studies. Pilar asks what the title means to Penny and why she’s doing the MA. Master Facilitator came from when Penny put in for her CPF renewal she needed to resubmit it and the Master Facilitator option had opened up and she decided to go for it. The Masters degree is because Penny has been doing some training with her Church and she wanted to really understand some of the subject matter. She’s studying ethics at the moment and her next assignment is on comparing the ethics of COVID responses in the UK and New Zealand. Penny is also learning Greek of 2000 years ago so she can read the Bible in its original language, and is about to start an anthropology module. She is sure that some of the thinking particularly around ethics, will feed back into her facilitation. Penny will be sharing some of her thinking. To connect with Penny: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pennypullan Website: https://makingprojectswork.co.uk/ Her book is “Making Project Work Creative Collaboration for Our Time”.
| |||
| 13 Sep 2022 | FS47 Facilitators and the Sustainable Development Goals with Tanya Nash | 00:27:36 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Tanya Nash. Tanya is the Founder of Future Clarity. She is a facilitator, coach, trainer and researcher and works with people in the sustainability field or organisations looking to make sustainability one of their core organising principles.
Tanya is also one of the hosts of the IAF Wales and Cardiff meetup. Her and Nikki reflect on a discussion that took place at one of these meetups, focusing on the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).
The 17 SDGs form part of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development - a commitment made by the United Nations in 2015 to Peace and Prosperity for People and Planet. Tanya highlights in particular the 16th - focusing on peace, justice and strong institutions - and the 17th - recognising that none of the goals can be achieved without working in partnership. They are a common set of goals that all countries which have committed to them can work towards and measure themselves against.
Tanya explains the significance of the SDGs in Wales where Sustainable Development is the central organising principle at the core of the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act for Welsh Public Bodies It’s the only Act in the World that legislates for the SDGs and they inform 7 Wellbeing Goals for Wales.
Nikki wants to know how the SDGs feature in Tanya’s work. A few years ago she was seconded to work for the Welsh Government coordinating the Voluntary National Review of Progress Towards the SDGs. Through this she worked cross sector and got to understand more about the work happening in Wales. Now in her own work Tanya focuses on supporting people and organisations to make a difference towards the SDGs.
Common opportunities to contribute include decarbonisation and climate change and efforts to make positive impact on poverty, gender issues, discrimination and inequality.
Nikki and Tanya think back to some of the ideas that came up in the Meetup discussion about ways facilitators could include the SDGs in their work. Suggestions included using the goals in how we describe ourselves, mentioning them on our websites or considering how they connect with our personal values. We have an opportunity to raise awareness of the SDGs, promote what they are and what they are trying to achieve.
The Inner Development Goals (IDGs) is a newer framework, developed in recognition that it’s not just institutional and structural goals that we need, but that within organisations people need a framework of transformative skills to work towards the SDGs. The IDGs include 5 Dimensions seen to be important in allowing us to work together towards the SDGs. These are: Being, Thinking, Relating, Collaborating, and Acting. The Framework allows individuals and organisations to consider what they need to do to maximise their contribution towards the SDGs.
Tanya is hearing a lot of conversations within facilitation and coaching spaces about how practitioners are integrating the IDGs in their theories of change and also using them to reflect on their own work and the areas they need to grow and develop. Tanya is also seeing them come up at organisational level in terms of values and ways of working.
Tanya is building the IDGs into programmes she’s developing and as a conversation starter with clients around the human side of the SDGs. She’s also reflecting on them herself and how they relate to her business planning.
The episode ends with a discussion on how the IAF could link the SDGs more strongly to its work. Tanya feels they could be used as a framework to consider behaviours as an association; or mapping work being done at an organisational level towards the SDGs and IDGs and showing a public commitment to them, as is happening in other professions. Actions could include thinking about the IDGs and their role in building facilitators’ skills to have an impact on the goals, as well as considering who the IAF is collaborating with, and how this could build a movement to support the SDGs. Finally,as an international network the IAF could think about the potential positive and negative difference it could make towards the SDGs. If this episode left you wanting to find out more you can look up the Sustainable Development Goals and Inner Development Goals following these links: To discover the IAF meetups (and join us!) head over to https://www.meetup.com/IAF-facilitators-and-friends/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanya-nash-7576b837/ And today's host Nikki : https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ | |||
| 06 Jan 2020 | FS07 The Importance of Values in Facilitation | 00:36:40 | |
Martin Gilbraith is a facilitato, trainer and consultant, and Chair of the IAF England and Wales board. He started hosting IAF meet ups about 5 years ago and has been facilitating since 1986. He is an IAF Certified Professional Facilitator (CPF), an ICA Certified ToP Facilitator (CTF) and experienced lead trainer and licensed provider of ‘ICA’s ‘ToP’ facilitation training and a Certified Scrum Master (CSM). Martin talks about the importance of values – both personal and IAF values which talk about the collective wisdom of the group. He says that what you believe has an enormous impact on the group. Martin talks about defining values and how the IAF values resonate with him and his involvement with developing the ICA UK values. Values are what is important to people and what drives them, and are important to be able to define what is meaningful and important to them. He told us about taking decisions not to do work that conflicted with his values, mostly around contracting with the client. We discussed the set up for sessions and how to deal with it if it is not what you want, particularly thinking about hybrid meetings. Sometimes even if the result is not perfect there are reasons why you might want to take a piece of work; in this example where the team was used to working in a distributed way on line and the group is used to the constraints and the client is known to the facilitator. Client contracts always come with constraints and it is the facilitators responsibility to work within these constraints. Sometimes the parameters are really complex and you just have to do the best you can. Sometimes things that’s people do unconsciously turn out to be core values. Martin talked about his involvement in the ICA UK and how the values were developed. One of the ways this was done was through using the ORID methodology to ask questions to members and stakeholders followed by a consensus building process at a workshop. Facilitators often facilitate sessions to help organisations come up with their own values. It’s important to start with real life experiences and something that is important and meaningful to people to help them define their values. Martin started working with ICA as a volunteer and his first workshop involved creating a personal timeline as a personal reflection tool. He talked about a book by John and Maureen Jenkins (founder members of IAF) - 9 disciplines of a facilitator – leading groups by transforming yourself. All about understanding your own values. A phrase from Maureen that resonated with Martin “however good a facilitator you are […] your most powerful tool as a facilitator is your own interior condition” Martin explains a bit further what ORID is and how it is his universal principle of facilitator. He finally shared a quote from Groucho Marx: “These are my principles, and if you don’t like them….well, I have others.” You can get in touch with Martin and find out more about him here: https://martingilbraith.com/about-me/ On twitter: Martin @martingilbraith Helene @helenejewell Pilar @pilarorti Other links: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/professional/iaf-code-of-ethics https://martingilbraith.com/2014/07/24/facilitation-ethics-and-values-where-do-you-draw-a-line/ https://www.ica-uk.org.uk/about-ica/ Slack channel: iaffacilitatorfriends.slack.com Please let us know your thoughts: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org www.IAF-world.org And go mad on Twitter! @IAFenglandwales
| |||
| 11 Apr 2023 | FS54 Falling Back in Love with Appreciative Inquiry with Ann Nkune | 00:27:34 | |
In today’s episode Nikki talks to Ann Nkune about her rediscovery of Appreciative Inquiry. Ann is a facilitator working with charities, social enterprises and the public sector helping people to increase their impact and be sustainable. Her work over the last 10 years has been parent friendly start up and career development programmes for women operate in the environmental and social impact sector. Ann describes a Linked In post that she recently wrote about Appreciative Inquiry (AI) where she was able to connect with other AI enthusiasts to talk to about it, help her work through the complexities and challenges and think about what more she could do when facilitating. And how she had fallen back in love with it having not used it for a while. Ann talks about the premise of AI and how most theories of change are about identifying a problem or risk. Whereas AI says that change is much more likely to happen when people understand where their strengths and the strengths of an organisation are, and can have a level of enthusiasm and optimism that change is possible. So AI increases the positive energy that comes from a group even when there are tricky things so they can see their way through the difficulties. She describes some examples of AI and the process which starts with a topic and going through 4 stages; DISCOVEREY (proud/pivotal moments and skills and qualities), DREAM (allows people to step back and see the big picture and how she encourages people to be creative) - Ann shares an example of creating playdough toilets! DESIGN (what is the reality and what are the options) and DELIVERY (commitment to action and major projects that are required to get to the dream stage). Ann tells Nikki how she had rediscovered AI in lockdown when doing goal setting online. She remembered how she first started to use it several decades ago and how she was initially quite cynical about it, but that AI gave the people she was working with a new perspective. She shares her observations and different uses; for individual discussion e.g. mums of young children as a way of capturing their strengths, bringing together people in teams to build relationships in new ways. She describes how energising it is in a group and to be visionary even if they don’t think they are. Nikki asks how her thinking about it has evolved....Ann says she has a recognition that where situations are complex and there is anxiety or conflict that there needs to be a pre-briefing, something that happens pre-process so that people have an opportunity to vent and get things off their chest, and process so they can decide what is crucial to bring in and what can be left out, and to understand what is going to happen in the process. She also describes how she discovered Time to Think by Nancy Klein and the thinking environment and how this requires a particular type of listening and questioning. Operating the AI process using thinking environment principles really improves it. She also considers conflict and Non Violent Communication as a potentially something to use before AI. She is also a fan of mindfulness as a way of preparing for these conversations. Nikki asks about the preparation and getting to know the context when using AI . Ann says she doesn’t do this as much as she used to when she felt she needed lots of facts. But now she needs to know that people are in the right frame of mind to do the process. She prepares well but doesn’t get too bogged down in the details. Ann shares some examples of using AI – individual work with women who have taken the leap from prevaricating to putting something in place and taking practical steps (using AI and the Lean Canvas). In terms of organisations she has done quite a few team building sessions, building relationships between board members and staff, allowing them to work more effectively. To connect with Ann Nkune on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ann-nkune-6a08b211/?originalSubdomain=uk or Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bloomsburybeginnings/?hl=en and her webasite is: https://bloomsburybeginnings.org/ You can connect with Nikki Wilson on Twitter @NiksClicks Listen to our podcasts: And connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories
| |||
| 08 Aug 2023 | FS58 Facilitating Dialogue Spaces with Jindy Mann | 00:28:30 | |
Welcome to Facilitation Stories, brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. In today’s episode Pilar Orti talks about running circles (spaces for dialogue) with Jindi Mann, founder and facilitator of Leader Brother Son and coach and organizational consultant at The Selfish Leader. Jindy recently ran the Men at Work survey as part of his work with Leader Brother Son, where he works with groups of men. The work has the potential of benefiting mental health and diversity. The Men at Work survey in particular, was a way for them to gather some insights into the male experience at work. In particular, it highlighed what men find hardest to talk about at work and what can help them show up more fully at work. To explain the roots of his work, Jindy talks about his early life, growing up in a British Indian family, his two business degrees and masculine cultures in the business world. He came to realize that he had an opportunity to work with this, as he was seeing the same thing repeatedly: the idea of taking up this role of "man" without interrogating what that means. Alongside some other coaches, Jindy started offering free online groups two and a half years ago. They’ll be starting their 10th group in early August. There is a short application process for joining the groups. Intersted participants first make As the work comes from a personal space for Jindy, he often feels the tension between leading or guiding the group and just allowing the space to be what it is. Jindy and the other facilitators are not the ones who have the answers, they are not defining what a man should be or what Masculinity is, but they are holding the space by contributing and holding the principles and the shape of the conversation, rather than telling it where to go. Throughout this work, Jindy still feels that tension of when to take some sort of action as a facilitator or when to contribute or when to say anything. He uses the coaching acronym WAIT – why am I talking? Jindy has started to refer to himself more explicitly as a "facilitator" when starting doing this work with men, but he has used facilitation in different ways in his consulting career. As to how the work with the circles and his co-facilitation have evolved, Jendy shares that when the groups started they introduced specific topics for discussion, but soon they started to invite the group to say what it wanted to explore. He shares some of the theories and practises that have influenced him including the idea from Wilfred Bion of that there are thoughts present in the group, but they haven't yet found a thinker. It can sound almost mystical, but the unconscious is always present, is always active in a group. And collectively things can emerge in a group. (For more on this read any of Jung or Freud’s work and Experiences in Groups by Wilfred Bion.) Jiindy has trained as a facilitator with Way of Council and in the conversation he shares his experience there and its overlap with psychodynamic theory. Jindy talks about his co-facilitators Aaron, Mark and Russell and how they met, and how they all bring something slightly different and have different influences. But that they have an important chemistry between them. The team are not taking their work into organisations. The work here will be different as the dynamics in organisations will be different than in an open group. People there will have assumptions about each other, and there will already be a sense of status and hierarchy. Jindy shares the pros and cons of doing these groups in person and online and about AI in coaching and wraps up with a couple of broad reflections: firstly, the conversation about men and masculinity is growing. Secondly, there is an increasing need for great dialogue and for great facilitated spaces for all of the things we're facing as a society. If you want to find out more about Jindy's work, you can go to Leaderbrotherson.com. And also you can also check out his other organization called The Selfish Leader. He is on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jindymann/ Men at Work Survey https://www.leaderbrotherson.com/resource/men-at-work-2023-survey Leader Brother Son https://www.leaderbrotherson.com/about You can connect with Pilar Orti on LinkedIn. https://www.linkedin.com/in/pilarorti/ Listen to our podcasts: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ And connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories | |||
| 19 Mar 2024 | FS65 Chapter Chat with Bogdan Grigore IAF Romania | 00:35:35 | |
In epsode Bogdan tells us about himself as a facilitator and trainer, what it means to be a playful facilitator and his journey into facilitation. He tells Nikki and Helene about how IAF Romania and how it all began, from joining IAF in 2018 to getting intouch with other facilitatrors in Romania. With the start of the pandemic 2 years later and everyone had more time he found out what was needed to start a chapter, and started IAF Romania with Bogdan as the Chair. Since 2020 the chaoter has grown to 27 members, with more facilitators wanting to be a part of the community. The growth has happened in terms of quality of events as well as numbers. Facilitation is not well known in Romania and not well known in organisations. Bogdan talks about engaging new people to the world of facilitation, organising events and enabling people to make connections and talks in more detail about some of the events they have hosted for example Open Space in HR. They also have a group mentoring programme and how that works. They have two types of approaches - one for the community and one for the IAF Romania members. Most events are co-facilitated so there is a lot of learning. Some examples of the events are: Training about having impact in online facilitation - Nelson from Portugal. Pop up sharing around a particular topic. Facilitators Studio - where someone can bring a new design to try out. Facilitator Lab - helping two facilitators to create something together. An example of this is AI and facilitation. The core members of 10/12 come up with the ideas for all the events and build the ideas together. They plan to have their first in person event - a facilitation festival in the autumn. Bogdan talks about collaborations with other IAF Chapters and explains how these have worked: Twin Chapters with IAF Italy Facilitation Lightening Talks, some of which were with IAF Ireland and IAF Italy He talks extensively about the collaboration with IAF Japan and the 9 or 10 meetings that were needed to set this up and the cultural learning points. Helene asks Bogdan to talk about his role in IAF Europe and Middle East as part of the share and learn team and the benefits of bringing together different cultures and facilitation experience. Bogdan talks about what next for IAF Romania - elections, continued focus on mentoring, sending chapters from the Power of Facilitation book out in their newsletter which they have translated into Romanian. Bogdan lastly talks about his hope for the future and the facilitation festival. To contact Bogdan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bogdangrigore82/ IAF Romania: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/romania The Power of Facilition: https://facpower.org/2021/06/01/what-is-the-power-of-facilitation-and-why-is-it-important/ Lightening Talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcOrr9Sj17U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tluzc03l4sM Celebrating Diversity with IAF Japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FctxQou8F9w Find Helene on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Find Nikki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Listen to our podcasts: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ Email: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org
| |||
| 08 Jun 2021 | FS34 Facilitation Worldwide with Vinay Kumar | 00:41:15 | |
In today’s episode, Pilar and Helene both join a conversation with Vinay Kumar. Vinay is Chair of IAF Global, based in Bangalore, India. He is a Certified Professional Facilitator, Coach, Organisational Development Consultant, Founder of C2C and host of podcast “Shiny Happy People”. They start by discussing how in 2006 Vinay began calling himself a Facilitator and became interested in the IAF. They talk about what changed in his practice as a result of starting to call himself a Facilitator. He explains how he began to learn and design more for the human dynamics of facilitation, creating a safe environment and then using methods that enable equity for everyone to participate. He also believes he became a better observer. They then explore the impact of hierarchy and what Vinay puts in place to allow everyone to be involved. Vinay talks about how he adapts the tools to the context, for example being very explicit that senior stakeholders speak last in brainstorming and reinforcing this through actions. They talk about the role of the expert. Vinay notes that there are 3 kinds of expert in a facilitation: process, content and context and that when working with clients he explains that he is the process and context expert. They then move on to explore how, as a “global nomad”, Vinay adapts his approach according to cultural nuances. He notes that from a human dynamic perspective, there are lots of similarities, even if certain adjustments are needed. In the case of hierarchy this can be stronger in some places than others but it’s rarely intentionally negative. Vinay also shares a story which reminded him that humour doesn’t always translate. Helene asks Vinay what he feels Facilitators working globally need to have front of mind. Vinay advises never to portray oneself as a cultural expert in any culture and going into each environment from a space of learning, directly asking for feedback from the group on any cultural mistakes. Vinay explains that he’s often the only English-speaking person in a room and how he finds himself more at ease asking participants to write post-its in any language they’re comfortable with, meaning that he can’t understand what they’ve written and doesn’t get pulled into being the content expert and is purely the process expert. Pilar then shares a similar experience working in Spain. The conversation moves to talking about the Facilitator community in India. Vinay says there’s an increasing understanding of what pure facilitation is, which he believes is behind the IAF India chapter being the largest in Asia, and growing. He observes there’s a huge learning mindset, increase in CPFs and an increased client understanding of the difference between process and content experts but that the market is still maturing and Facilitators are still educating the market. Next, they talk about how, given the size and spread of the IAF community in India, they can all connect. There is a single chapter but with City Hubs, smaller communities of 30-40 people, supported with 2 WhatsApp groups. The active community meets through a blend of national and local events and meetups which continued almost weekly online throughout 2020. Pilar asks Vinay if he’s observed other areas of the world where an interest in Facilitation is really growing. Vinay feels that it’s happening everywhere including new chapters and special interest groups. The pandemic has meant that people have wanted community connections and broken up the concept of country chapters meaning that the “international” in IAF has never been truer. Vinay then talks about his love of being part of the IAF and its Board. He highlights the giving nature of the community and its international nature meaning that he can connect with people wherever he is working in the world. Helene asks Vinay about the variations he notices across different chapters. One thing he finds surprising is that in some areas volunteers pick up the mantle and run with it whereas in others, people are less keen to organise things. He notes that if people don’t put in the energy they don’t get as much out of it. He also describes how in parts of India and Malaysia small charges have been introduced to events in order that people recognise the value and the “energy contribution”. Pilar next goes on to ask if there’s anything Vinay is experimenting with or thinking of trying in his Facilitation. Vinay explains that pre pandemic he was beginning to experiment more with movement based facilitation within a room, but since moving online he’s now beginning to try not using slides and breakouts but trying drawing, standing up and using different backgrounds. He also tells the story of how he accidentally discovered “facilitation by absence” which he’s now beginning to use virtually. Helene poses the issue of digital poverty and how Facilitators working globally have been working around it. Vinay suggests that Facilitators need to be particularly sensitive to bandwidths and digital “savviness”. He recounts an example where he ideated with another Facilitator in India around using WhatsApp in parallel to Zoom, knowing that the audience was more confident with that platform. He has also heard anecdotally of Facilitators working in an audio-based format using WhatsApp for sharing. Vinay wraps up by thanking all IAF Members, encouraging non-members to join and giving a call to action to keep promoting the power of Facilitation worldwide. Connect with Vinay, Helene and Pilar on Twitter: @vincekumar @HeleneJewell @PilarOrti | |||
| 09 Nov 2021 | FS39 Growing as a Facilitator through the CPF Certification Process | 00:26:20 | |
In this episode, Pilar interviews Helene Jewell CPF about her experience of going through the CPF Certification Process as someone already experienced in facilitation. Helene has been working for 7/8 years as a freelancer, with a background in international development and Speech and Language Therapy where she started doing training and working with groups. Pilar asks Helene what she did to develop and continue learning before becoming certified. Helene talks about the ICA UK training courses and other training courses she has been on, networking with other facilitators, IAF meet ups and conferences (Helene is the Chair of the IAF England and Wales board), structured learning and finding out from others and watching other facilitators. Helene talks about a growing awareness of what CPF is, that initially cost put her off and that being around others who have done it have nudged her forwards. She was encouraged by Simon Wilson, and Trevor Durnford (who mentored her through the IAF mentoring scheme). She also talks about her growing confidence that she would be able to do it and initially being scared she wouldn’t pass. Pilar asks what Helene's commitment to the process was. Helene explains how she didn't have an accreditation as quite a generalist facilitator - while this wasn’t something clients had ever asked about, she felt more and more like she needed to “get on with it”. Helene explains the online certification process. She went through it in July 2021. The process included pre-work before the assessment day, forms to fill in and detailed reflections on past pieces of work. The process helped Helene to think about things she could’ve done better, and about tackling things that had gone wrong and how she dealt with it. She also talks about having to focus on the IAF competencies and what they all mean and working through them to understand them better. Pilar asks about the other aspects of the assessment Helene talks about the dedicated assessor acting as a client doing an interview and then the practical assessment and the further interviews on the day. There were participants who were CPFs from all around the world which was one of the benefits of it being online. A few months on, has anything changed? Helene talks about sharing the fact she is a CPF with people, the feeling of responsibility of doing a good job, the recertification in 4 years and monitoring herself against the formal framework. She has recently done some work with Lee Button CPF and they both gave each other feedback with this in mind. To wrap up, Helene talks about co-facilitation and doing more co-facilitation and collaborating with other facilitators in the last 18 months being online, and how this is important for developing facilitation practise. Pilar suggests that in future Facilitation Stories could do an episode on co-facilitation - what do you think, dear listener/reader? You can find Helene at helene@jewellfacilitation OR jewellfacilitation.com Contact Facilitation stories on Twitter: @Fac_stories or visit our website: Facilitationstories.com You can find Pilar on twitter @PilarOrti | |||
| 18 Jun 2024 | FS68 Chapter Chat with Sara Tremi Proietti and Andrea Panzavolta from IAF Italy | 00:42:49 | |
This episode is one of our quarterly “Chapter Chats” where the team talks to leaders of other IAF Chapters. In this episode Helene and Nikki chat to Sara Tremmi Proietti and Andrea Panzavolta from IAF Italy. They talk about
“Our jobs are a little bit different. So it's very interesting because we see things from very different perspectives. And this is also always very, very rich, and something that I really, really recommend” (Sara on co-leading with Giacamo)
“we would like the chapter to be a point of reference at the national level for organisations who are seeking facilitator facilitation services or just want to learn something more about it” A full transcript is below. Links Today’s guests: Sara Tremmi Proietti: saratremmiproetti@gmail.com IAF Italy website: https://iaf-italy.org/ IAF Italy email: italy@iaf-world.org
Today’s subject LinkedIn Article about Co Leadership by Andrea and Deborah: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stepping-leadership-iaf-story-deborah-rim-moiso-fmdwf/
To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/
Transcript
H.J Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, the community podcast brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. I'm Helene Jewell (HJ) and
N.W I'm Nikki Wilson (NW)
H.J And this episode is one of our quarterly Chapter Chats, where we talk to people leading other chapters in the IAF global community. We ask them about how they see the status of facilitation, where they are, and the history, priorities, current projects and aspirations of the chapter. Today, we're joined by Andrea Panzavolta (AP) and Sara Tremmi Proietti (SP), co chairs of IAF Italy, welcome.
S.P Thank you, Helene.
A.P Thank you so much for the invitation and also for your perfect pronunciation.
H.J Thank you so welcome to you both. And to start off with, we would like to know a little bit more about both of you and about the kind of work you do. So if you could tell us a bit about yourselves, that would be great.
S.P Thank you Helene. Okay, so my name is Sara, and I live in Rome, which is in centre of Italy. I have been working in public administration for over 10 years now, and for the past three years, I've been drawn to the world of facilitation, first attending a course and then starting to work also in in this field, public administration, I focused initially on economic programming, but then I turned more on teams like innovation and process optimization. So that's how I met facilitation, because during an office reorganisation attempt, we met a lot of conflicts and resistances and difficulties with our team. And so I understood that I needed to, you know, to discover and to learn something more about people, about relation, about group working. So that's how I met it and how I am.
A.P So may I introduce myself, and first of all, thank you for the invitation and for this amazing initiative, because I also listened to the past podcast and were very, very, very well done. I'm not the actual chapter leader. I was the past chapter leader with Deborah Rim Moiso. So thank you also, Sarah, who invited me to join you. And I'm an urban planner and the facilitator, of course, our 20 years that I practise as a facilitator. I'm a founder of the formative collective, that is a project that focuses on the team of non violent communication. And of course, we use the participatory techniques, methods. And I was awarded with the Platinum Award 2020 by the International Association of Facilitator. So I'm very proud about this, in a project that I follow it by region Emilia-Romagna, that is my region in the north of Italy, and the team was about the Community of Practice on participatory policy making. So that's all for me.
H.J Thank you. Really interesting to hear how you both got into facilitation and congratulations on your award too, Andrea.
A.P Thanks so much. It's a past award.
N.W Great. So today we're going to be talking about IAF Italy, which we know had its 10 year anniversary last year. So what can you tell us about how it started and how the chapters developed over that 10 year period?
A.P Yeah, thank you for the question Nikki .The Italian chapter born in 2013 on the initiative by Giancarlo Manzone and Gerardo de Luzengerger that I imagine you know very well. And from 2019 to 2021 was coordinated by Paola Martinez. That is another IAF member, very active. And since May 2021, has been coordinated by me and Deborah Rim Moiso. And now the coordinators are Sara Tremmi Proietti and Giacomo Petitti. And the chapter started to create collaboration between facilitators, and mainly to explain what the facilitator do. At that time nobody in Italy know the term, the word facilitator. And I was scared to present me as a facilitator, because nobody, nobody could understand what I did. So this is our first mission in that time.
H.J Thank you. Really interesting. Sorry, Sara, did you have something to add?
S.P Yeah, I would like to, just to add that the professional facilitator now it's spreading a little bit more in Italy, but still, we have a lot of resistance among organisations. And there is a great concentration of facilitators in the north of the country. So we are our initiative now is also to bring facilitation to the southern regions of the country. And we are quite pleased about an initiative that came from our members, which is a small initiative, because they just decided to have a WhatsApp chat called like facilitators from the South. And the nice thing is that this initiative came from a Canadian girl, who is a member who lives now in the south of Italy, and but, and she's a member of IAF Italy, and she formed this WhatsApp chat, and we are quite proud of this, even if this is a small step, but it does mean something for us.
H.J Wow, that's so interesting. And also that kind of organic movement of yeah, people starting up their own, yeah? Well, WhatsApp chat
S.P Exactly, exactly, yeah.
H.J And I think what's interesting actually for us is, the more we do these Chapter Chats, we hear a bit of a consistent theme, actually, in this people don't really know what facilitation is. That certainly, when we spoke to Bogdan from IAF Romania, that was one of the things he was talking about as well. So it's definitely and in the UK. So it's definitely not, uh, not something, uh, specific to where we are, which is interesting. Okay, so, um, thinking then, uh, well building a bit on what you were saying, Sara about, you know, you've got some new initiatives. Can you tell us a bit more about the chapter as it is today?
S.P Yeah, sure. So the chapter today has about 30 to 35 members, as I was saying before, with the predominance in the north of Italy. So it's like 20 to 22, members in the north, and four of them are certified facilitators. So now we still have two co-leader, a co-leadership. It's me and Giacomo Petitti. We have been holding this role for a year now, so it's midterm kind of. And what we do is we basically carried on the work, the job that was began by Andrea and Deborah, because we hold monthly meetings. So it's pretty regularly. It's like the third Monday of each month we meet. And we also provided IAF Italy with a Zoom account so that we can, we could, uh, ensure you know this regularity. And this is a place, this is a moment of the month where people can meet and discuss and also participate in building and nourishing the community and to identify together goals and activities. So we wanted to be a participated chapter, no. So since we are kind of scattered among, you know, along the country, across the country, we cannot hold, like in person events so frequently. So we have our national event, which is held in Milan every year. So we keep it, you know, online, mainly. And then we we have, like, some activities, like, you know, things that we participate in, in events with other association for the promotion of the participation, or for the promotion of facilitation as well. Like, we went to an event last September in Bologna. So we travel a little bit, me and Giacomo sometimes. And then to, you know, to keep up with members, we have this WhatsApp chat, and then we have a sort of newsletter. We can call it like monthly, where we give, we keep them updated to with the international events and initiatives that are going on into the IAF Ward and yeah and that, that's pretty much it. And then we have, you know, like a specific also, activities that we were following, but maybe Andrea will tell you more later about it.
N.W And you touched on the kind of Co-leadership model that you follow. What do you, have you found works well in making that work when you're co leading?
A.P Yes, before the 2021 the chapter had always been led by an individual, but when Gerardo asked me to became the chapter leader, I was very scared. And in that period I had less time to dedicate to the association. So I asked to Deborah Rim Moiso to help me, and she joined, and she was very happy to join this experience. And we together were inspired by experiments in Co-leadership adopted by the global ecovillage network and and we not, we're not sure, but they may have too been inspired by the Kurdish democratic and federalism practices. So this was our approach, and it's very simple. Our co-leadership started, I don't know if now work at the same, but I think it's very similar. And any leadership position is taken at the same time by two people of different genders. So we suggest different genders, both are leader together. And you know, as IAF you need to have only one reference, one the chapter leader, but I was the person who did the senior tour. But for me and Deborah, we have the same power. And for me, was very important to share the season and to share also that after the meeting with the IAF International. And was very, very useful also to define the future strategy, also to when we decided to engage more members from the south of Italy, we decided together this and we decided to to have regular meetings with us, with me and Deborah. We call the coffee time meeting, or the beer meeting, the beer time meeting. So every week, we had a short meeting of half an hour to share ideas and also to share information that we took from from different meetings that we participate. So we shared also the duties you know about, to be a chapter leader. And so was a very good experience, and we suggested this managed model to all the chapters.
H.J Nice, and for you Sara, does that, is it a model that feels nice working alongside somebody else?
S.P Yeah, very much. I really appreciated this initiative. And when Andrea proposed me to take the role and told me that Giacomo was in as well, I was really relieved. I was like, Okay, now, now I know that I can do it like this. You know, in pairs. Yeah, I think it's very interesting to be together. And also you can, you know, divide activities, such as the previous one I was talking about, when you have to travel around. And also you can, you know, share meetings where you have to, that you have to attend, but mostly you can discuss and share fears and projects for the future. And also Giacomo and I have very different backgrounds. How are you know, we live in different places, in different type of communities, our jobs are a little bit different. So it's very interesting because we see things from very different perspectives and this is also always very, very rich, and something that I really, really recommend. So I'm really, really enjoying this. And also the nice thing was that at the last general conference, we kind of hosted the conference, which is organised by Gerardo every year. But also we decided to have a session together for a session. So we brought a workshop so we could test, you know, our Co-leadership in person and during work. So that's nice.
H.J So it sounds great from sort of lots of different perspectives. And yeah, interesting thinking about that diversity perspective that you both bring two sort of different mindsets or different ways of facilitating to your leadership. And I can absolutely, having been passed England and Wales chapter chair, I can absolutely relate to that being a bit scared of doing it by yourself. So if you've got somebody to work alongside with that must feel really good. So the other thing you you've just mentioned again, leading us nicely onto, my next question is about your annual conference. It would be really nice to hear a bit more about about the how that works, about your plans and past conferences as well. You tell us a bit more.
A.P Yeah, maybe I could introduce some themes related to the past conferences. And what I could say a lot of subjects. We started with ‘the collaboration era’ was the title of the first Italian conference. Was the first conference to make know better the professional facilitator, and to start also the collaboration with different professional you know. At the time, each facilitator was very jealous about his work ,his profession, because it was, was something very precious, so we decided to start collaboration to share experience methods and what what we know. In our conference, everyone bring his or her experience and the share methods could offer a free workshop so you have to share something of your professional experience also. And another theme that I loved, it was “where the donkey falls”. So when you are a facilitator, you do everything very well, but when you start to converge to the, to take the decision, here come the problems. So how we could take good decision, how we could go in the conversing way and respect our participants or the group's members. And after that was very good for me, the covid free editions conference, because we shared all we learned in these months of pandemic situation also about the online. But were moment to share those feelings as professional, as individual, as a member of a family, and what does. Also the last conference we organised were about the facilitate in a few words, so no verbal facilitation. How to use the body, arms? You know, we are Italian. We could was very, very well para verbal. But you never stop to study. You have to improve your skills. So we decide to face this team. And the last in the in 2024 the team was neutrality in facilitation. I mean, it's possible to be really neutral as a facilitator in a group, how you can do to be natural, what methods, what you have to do before the groups works before the workshop or after, to be more neutral. And at the end, one of the most nice for me experience of the conference was the agile and facilitation conference that was there during the European Middle East, original conference of the IAF, so was a very, was an international conference. We mainly, not mainly, all the conference has been organised in Italian language. This was the only conference can I organise in English. Always in Milan was dedicated to Agile. So to work with an agile methods, and also to go in deep in the Agile methods that it's not only for person that work with computer and engineers but it's also good for design thinking, the facilitator. And I don't know if Sara wants to add something more about this experience?
S.P Yes, thank you Andrea, it was very exhaustive. Yeah, what I would like to add is more like a personal, maybe, point of view for in a way, because I, as I said before, I met facilitation three years ago. So I just attended a couple of conferences the last two. So the first one was, yeah, the one like facilitating in a few words, and that, for me, was really amazing, because I just met facilitation and I had no idea, like not no idea, but I was very young in facilitation. So experiencing facilitation through the body and through paraverbal was very enriching for me, because I could learn a lot and experiment on myself a lot. And the second one, and the very nice thing for me was that I was asked by Andrea, I think by Andrea, or by Delfino, I don't remember, to to facilitate the open space technology that we always have during the conference. And it was the first time for me, and that was absolutely amazing experience. And in general, the great thing about the conference is that it brings together very different people, and you get to know that, other words, you know, exist in facilitation. And this is something that being new. It's always you know, something to discover. So it's very interesting. And another thing that I would like to add is that in the this year, last conference, which was held in March, the one about neutrality, was organised in a slightly different way, because there was like a preparation path conference. And people were, are kind of supported and not tutored, but supported in their planning and designing of the workshops that they wanted to to offer. And these, and they were like, they were like feedback, attentions, so that people could improve and take care of, you know, details supported by by a team of, you know, facilitators, and these ensured great quality of of workshops during the conference. It was really, really, really high quality. And I believe that it helped also young facilitators to, you know, to offer workshops with less anxiety. I don't know how to say that, you know, so, yeah, that was really, really nice. I think
A.P If I put up just a very practical thing that is not obvious, the conference is all organised by volunteers, and this is a choice, because the fee is very low, so it's about 180 or 150 euros. It depends about the year. So we want to be very open also to person that are not facilitator, are curious about facilitators or facilitation methods and stories, and that's all.
H.J Sounds kind of similar to the conference that we put on in England and Wales, actually there's, yeah, definite similarities. Nice. Thank you.
N.W Brilliant. And so I suppose building again on that kind of peer led nature of the work the chapter often builds collaborations and partnerships, both within Italy and beyond. So if we just start off with Italy, could you share some examples of some recent and current collaborations that you're involved with?
A.P Yeah, thank you, Nikki for the question. Yes. When I became chapter leader, together with Deborah, we decide to enforce relation with National Association, because we understood that we have to grow, and to grow we have to enforce the relation to know more association that are interested in the same subjects. So mainly we did intervention to explain what I effectively do and what are the core competencies, support, facilitator, and, you know, just to present ourselves and to explain what a facilitator is. We invite all the members of different association to share information and objectives, to find common ground. So we work, in particular with IP two, that is an association in Italy that work on public participation. And if the members are more academic, are more are not professional facilitator, but like to work in the field of facilitator and the public democratic choices. So they are very engaged about what IAF is. And also, we decide to start collaboration with Association like Facilit Ambiente, that is an association, a private association that is offered by the Chamber of Commerce of Milan Monza Brianza Lodi. And it's a sort of service offered for preventing environmental conflicts through facilitation. So they trust in facilitation. They want to support and promote the facilitations approaches and also IAF approaches and the core competencies. So also we work with the open gulf consultation, that is the national consultation, that aim to engage citizens, normal citizens, in the decision related to the government. And there is a national platform, online platform, and you can vote, you know, like this deal, but it's a national platform. So very, very hard to participate because you need, you need to use a lot of personal data to vote before, but for us, was a must. As an international association, as a national association of facilitation, we have to speak also with the Italian government about these, these subjects.
H.J Thank you. Sara, was there anything to add from you?
S.P Yeah, just that this, we are with the associate association that Andrea mentioned, the Association for Public Participation. We are now reviewing the Participation Charter, which was elaborated, created 10 years ago. So after 10 years, this charter has been reviewed. And the Charter is a document promoted by IAF Italy, and this AIP through association with other associations that establishes principles and objectives and guidelines for promoting public participation in decision making processes and the process of reviewing this charter just ended. So we will present this work at the Festival of the Participation, which would be held soon in Italy. So we are quite, quite proud of this. And yes, in general, we try to connect with the associate Association in order to spread facilitation, and also to promote the recognition of the facilitator, facilitator profession in Italy, because this profession is not yet recognised here.
H.J Amazing, Wow. Sounds like you've got lots and lots of Yeah, lots of work that you're doing, and perhaps lots more to do, just thinking about collaborations, but more specifically about the twinning that you've been doing with other chapters. I wanted to ask you a bit more about that. So we spoke to Bogdan, as I said before, from IAF Romania in a previous Chapter Chat and we know that you've twinned with IAF Romania, and you have started, I think, to twin with IAF Syria. And I just wondered if you could tell us a bit more about that.
S.P Yeah, yeah. We, Giacomo and I, decided to carry on this, this initiative that was started by Andrea and Deborah with the Romania when but we did with this training with Syria. And it was a very, very enriching experience for us, because it could help us expand our horizon, you know, also beyond, beyond the Western culture. And so we had a series of virtual workshop, online workshop with with Syrian, in order to share knowledge, resources and best practices between our chapters. We had four meetings about the first one was like, like, the role of facilitation in post disaster recovery. And this was really interesting, because we exchange different stories, and we could see how different it was to, for example, recover after natural disaster. Like it was like in Italy, because we have, we had a few earthquakes in the last few years that and then we had to rebuild, you know, buildings and communities. Whereas in Syria, they had to rebuild after war, and then also after earthquakes. So we could share this experience, and we would see the differences and the great job that they did, and that we also tried to do here in Italy. And also it was very nice because each, each each meeting, the other meetings, were about the conflict management and cultural diversity. So it was, it was very nice to because there are, there might be great differences, you know, in culture, especially when you, when you compare Italy to Syria. So it really makes you think and reflect even out of the session. You know, you have to think about cultural diversity at the basis of the relation. I don't know how to explain it better. And it was nice because we had the chance to co facilitate. So it was an Italian and a Syrian facilitator. And so it was really enriching and but what I saw and what I really liked is that, because I did facilitate one of these meetings, and it was the openness and the human connection that we could find and share when doing something that we really liked. So it was something that went beyond cultural diversity and went beyond the barrier, also the language barrier that you can meet when you go facilitate. You know, maybe Andrea wants to tell us a few more about the Romanian experience.
A.P But, yeah, sure. Just something to add about the idea, the idea, when we decide, with Deborah to propose this twinning during a meeting of the European chapter, we decide to propose a twinning that was composed about three, four meetings, thematic meetings. And of course, that will not take more than two years twinning, because, from our idea, also the Chapter must be in charge for two years. And every two years we want to change chapter leaders and as well, co chapter leaders. And so the twinning at this time about the Romania was amazing because was the first twinning so we decided together, also with bogdan and his and their colleagues, we decided also to share how it's different the professional facilitator in Romania and Italy. So starting from, what are your clients? What are your fees? And something very, very practical, but also if you work more in the private or public sector and what you did, what are your institution? So the line was to enrich each other with methods, but also take inspiration how to work in a different way with different clients that together are not you don't know. And so was very fun also to understand that we are in the same boat, so everything is the same in your nation. So a very good experience that I suggest to each chapter to start.
H.J Thank you. So then thinking about, actually, I just wanted to pick up on one thing you were talking about there, the language, which obviously we as native English speakers have as the kind of luxury, if you like that, when things are in a shared language, they are often in English, which is quite easy for us. How does that, How hard or easy is that to for example, work with Romania, work with Syria and have to use for both of you to be using a language that isn't your own.
S.P Well, actually, I mean, I do really like languages so and I think it's fun to when you meet someone who is not a native English speaker, to find your own vocabulary, like you build up your own vocabulary, which maybe it's not even English, it's not Italian, it's not Syrian, it's not Romanian, but somehow you understand each other, and that's fun. But I have to say that sometimes it can be a barrier, because, like maybe not all the, not all our members felt confident to facilitate in English. So, yeah, so you really need to encourage them that you will find a way to build up your vocab, vocabulary. And also, I think that during the sessions, there is this, at least for me, like, kind of worried that I may not understand well what people are saying, and maybe I my facilitation could be, you know, so and so. And so, you really need to trust yourself, I think, a little bit more, but also, and that's why I really like facilitation, you can always rely on your co facilitator, so if you or make a joke about it, so if you are two, if it's two, you know facilitators not speaking English as a native language, I think it's a lot easier to to manage that.
A.P If I could share, I remember my first online meeting with the monthly meeting with the European Middle East, and I was so scared about the language, because I never studied English, so I learned by myself. So I was so scared or what, what I could say with these facilitators, so professional facilitator. And there was, I met Andrew Spiteri, you know, in a breakout room, and he was so polite, so friendly, that I was very relaxed. And after that meeting, I said myself, everything will be okay. Don't, don't, don't be scared. Don't worry about the English. And you can also use para verbal and don't speak.
H.J Yeah,that's always a fall back, isn't it? Wow, yes, I've delivered training in a different language. Anyway, moving on. So yeah, looking ahead, what's happening in the near future in IAF Italy and yeah, how would you like to see things develop over the next few years?
S.P Okay, so looking ahead, so our focus, I think, remain on strengthening the culture of participation and participation in general. For sure, public participation is, you know, something that is important for us. And also, yeah, having this thing that I mentioned before that having the professional facilitator formally recognised. So something, yeah, it's like to we would like, yeah, this profession to be seen and understood and recognised at a, you know, an institutional level. This is the general, you know, the frame. So in the near future, of course, there is the next general conference. I know it's we are a year ahead, but it takes a lot of work. And of course, the conference is organised by Gerardo, but it's in collaboration with the Chapter. So we are working on improving the model, the new method that we experimented last year. And so we want to see where it goes if we keep working on that. So with this preparation path, and try to trying to scout a little bit new facilitators and see if they want to put themselves to the test, you know. So that it can be the annual conference, can be a place where people, even less experienced facilitators, can can try it, can grow, can know facilitation better and know themselves better as facilitators. This is Yeah, in the near future. In the long term, I think we would like to, the Chapter to transform into a proper, real, like community, where facilitators can share, can support each other, can network and also create work opportunities together. We what we would like is that people feel free to ask each other for help, for support, if they are short of ideas or about a session or a method or something like that. Then we want people to rely on each other, and we want to facilitate this trust building process, I don't know. And also, we would like the chapter to be a point of reference at the national level for organisations who are seeking facilitator facilitation services or just want to learn something more about it. So we would like to be Yeah, like a subject, someone people facilitators and organisation can rely on and can go and ask for help or information.
H.J Great. Anything else from you Andrea? Any other thoughts on the future?
A.P Of course, you know, I'm not now the chapter leader, but I absolutely have some ideas. And Sara had said something very important for me, so support the facilitator and to give them visibility. Organise moment to present facilitator to clients, to to factories, to person that don't know facilitator, and have to know and have to use facilitator because it's better. And when you try facilitator, you ask to yourself, why I didn't do it before. So I want to that IAF Italy support also the professional part of the individual facilitator and for me, it's very important, because in Italy, we need to grow with numbers. And I mean, also in Europe, but in our case, we have to make grow the knowledge of facilitators.
S.P I would just like to add that, I mean, my personal dream is also, of course, since I work in public administration, to bring facilitation in public administration, you know. So this is something that I try to do, you know, very, very small things in my everyday life, at work, but this is, it's more a personal dream this, but I would like to mention that as well, because I think we really need that. We do have, I think that facilitation is kind of entering institutions at a small, at the municipal level, so, you know, town hall level. But in the bigger institution which I belong to, I don't see that much, and I think we really, really, really need that. And also I think that for the for the chapter, something that we should try to, should invest on is young facilitators, of course, and this is also a campaign that IAF global is carrying on. We know that some of our members did join initiatives that have been carried on at the global level. And we are very happy about that. And I also, I would like to maybe this is also a personal, a personal dream. But I really like the share and learn idea, you know, the series that we have at the global level. And I would like that to have that maybe at a chapter level, maybe Italian, maybe even in a more structured way, maybe easier. So something that not felt like kind of overwhelming by people, but that can be, you know, a way to to exchange between peers,
N.W Great, well, lots of big plans and you've got a big work agenda ahead of you, but it sounds like some, some great ambitions there, and really interesting different things that you're getting involved in. So just before we wrap up then, where should we go if we want to find out more about you and the IAF Italy Chapter?
S.P We have a website, and then we also you can reach us, reach us at our email. So the website is, of course, www.Iaf-italy.org , and the email Italy@IAF-word.org so you can always write to us, we always answer and see, check our emails. And you can also write to me. My email is s.tremmiproietti@gmail.com and yeah, this is, this is our contact.
H.J Thank you so much. So I think it just leaves us to say thank you for joining us today, Sara and Andrea. It has been really fascinating talking to you and hearing all about IAF Italy, past, present and future. And hopefully we'll get a chance to speak to you again soon.
S.P Thank you. Thank you Helene and Nikki for the invitation. It was my first experience, and I'm really happy about it.
A.P Thank you so much for the invitation.
H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of Facilitation Stories, the community podcast for IAF, England and Wales.
N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved, all of the links are on our website, facilitationstories.com
H.J And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use
N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?
H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about.
N.W Send us an email at podcast@IAF-EnglandWales.org
H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more Facilitation Stories.
N.W Until then, thank you for listening.
| |||
| 10 Oct 2023 | FS60 Exploring Philosophical Inquiry with Rosie Carnall | 00:26:50 | |
In this episode Nikki talks to Rosie Carnall about Philosophical Inquiry. It’s a way of engaging in a conversation explorating into philosophical questions. Rosie has used Philosophical Inquiry in a range of situations, from Art Galleries, to pubs, to workplaces. Nikki and Rosie talk about how to choose stimuli for discussions and learning from a specific example of when Rosie ran the same session back to back, online and in person for a hybrid team. The full transcript is below. Links: Rosie’s website: www.rosiecarnall.co.uk Nikki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Listen to our podcasts: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ Connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories Email: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org
NW Hello and welcome to facilitation stories brought to you by the England and Wales Chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Nikki Wilson and my guest today is Rosie Carnall. So welcome, Rosie. So to start off with, could you tell the listeners a little more about you and what you do?
RC Thanks, Nikki. So my name is Rosie Carnall, and I'm a Freelance Creative Facilitator. My background’s in mediation and conflict resolution and from that, I learned quite a lot about facilitation and developed that as an interest, and I've also worked in things like Project management. And then, more recently, in my work, I've been able to focus more on facilitation, and in particular, using both creative methods of facilitation to get people thinking and talking, but also facilitating creative sessions. So I typically work with creative writing and the creative field but I'm also really interested in art -based work. So quite a broad range of interests, but at the core of it all, is facilitating interesting and engaged conversations.
NW Fantastic. And we're going to dig in a little bit more about that, in this episode. So you and I met at the IMF conference, and I discovered that you include philosophy for communities in your practice. So I had a really positive experience as a participant in the past, and I was really keen to, to find out a bit more about how you use it. So for listeners that aren't familiar with P4C, could you tell us a bit more about it?
RC Yeah, that's great that you had a positive experience. I'd love to hear more about that another time. So Philosophy for Communities is a method of holding a Philosophical Inquiry. And Philosophical Inquiry is kind of what it sounds like, it's a way of engaging in a conversation that takes forward questioning and exploration into philosophical questions. And philosophical questions are all around us in life. And P4C, Philosophy for Communities is a way of, it's a method to enable people who aren't academic philosophers who don't wouldn't consider themselves to be philosophical necessarily, to discover big questions, and discuss them together. NW Okay. And so, when did you first encounter P4C and what appealed to you about it? RC The first ever time I encountered P4C was when my son took part in it in a P4C inquiry as part of a youth group. And I was just a parent on the edge kind of thing. I wasn't participating. And they, they had in any P4C inquiry, you would have a stimulus, so that's the starting point for whatever the discussion is going to be. But the stimulus always has quite a lot of different ways to go. And the stimulus on this occasion was a children's story, Michael Morpurgo story. And it was the one about the Christmas Truce, the story where in the First World War, there was a truce called on Christmas Day, and the English and German soldiers played football together. And then the young people, including my son, read the story. And then they asked questions, and then they discuss the questions they came up with. And then they went on to create a Christmas play, to put on arising from their discussion. And the thing that really struck me was how they engaged in such depth with what the story meant. So when they put on the play, they weren't rehearsing lines, they were conveying meaning. And it just felt such a rich form of learning that I thought, well, I really need to find out more about this. So and that, that brings up the the idea that P4C also stands for Philosophy for Children, and it's used in a lot of schools in Britain. It's an international movement. It's a way of teaching thinking skills and critical thinking. And it's also a way of engaging children in kind of social learning, and how to disagree agreeably. And Philosophy for Communities is the exact same thing. It's just with adults in community rather than children. NW Yeah, excellent. I mean, I, as I said, I encountered it as an adult first of all, but hearing that it had been, you know, the stem of it was from, from kind of school based learning, I just thought I wish that we'd done this at school, it would have been so valuable, I think to, to kind of build those skills, as you said that that whole idea of being able to discuss and sit alongside other people and kind of draw out that meaning. And so how did you I mean, obviously, you you learned about it as an observer, how did you first come to try facilitating it in practice? RC Well, Ijust, I was already doing facilitation. And I was interested in using it at that time, I was working as manager of a team and a national organisation and I started trying using a bit in that kind of team context. And I also used it in community, I'm a Quaker, as it happens, and so at our Quaker meeting, we offered a couple of P4C inquiries, and I was lucky that I had a friend who's very skilled and knowledgeable about P4C, and the thing that happens straight away, in that classic learning journey is that soon as you start trying to actually do something, you learn so much more about what you don't know about doing it, You know, it looks so easy, “Well, I'm going to give that a go”, and really quickly I was like I need to do some training in this if I want to get really good at this, or even, you know, even as a starting point. I began to understand and for example, in facilitating a group to come up with questions, I just needed to do a much more deep dive into like, “What is a question? And how do we get to good questions?” So I did some training with an organisation locally, who, who mainly trained teachers in Philosophy for Children, but I came along and said, “Well, I actually don’t work in a school I'm going to, I'm going to use it with adults, mainly. So that was how I did the training. NW Excellent. And so since then, obviously, you trialled it in practice, and then kind of did this bit of training. But where have you used it since then? Are there any contexts where you feel it particularly works well? RC Yeah, so I've used it, I've used it a lot with Quakers, for interest and for kind of, not teaching so much as learning. So getting a group together and inquiring into a shared question, it means that people are sharing their knowledge and their ideas and their thinking, and that fits really well in that context. So that kind of community learning together. And I've used it in pubs. So I set up and run a Philosophy in Pubs group in Sheffield, that's been going, coming up for five years, in fact, and that's just an open access group, anyone who's interested can come along, and each month, it’s a monthly group, and I bring a different stimulus, and we'll see where that goes. And during the pandemic, I moved that online. so I've used it online as well as in real life, so to speak. And I've used it as part of a more creative focus or cultural focus, as part of the Sheffield Year of Reading, which was a whole year the library set up, of getting people into reading and thinking. And for that we used different excerpts from books or a poem. I've used it as, I do creative writing, and Creative Writing facilitation. So I use it as a way into creative writing, but also as a way of people engaging with each other's writing to critique. So something I call creative critique. So we use people's passages of writing as the stimulus for the inquiry, and it means they get a sense of whether what they're writing is actually landing with the listener. And I now also offer P4C sessions in a local art gallery and a few art galleries and I call that “Philosophy in the Gallery”, and so then in that case, it's again, it's an open access session where people would come and we look at an artwork together, and then evolve our thinking arising from looking at the art, so not so much a focus on learning about art, art history, or even the kind of painterly strokes, but what does it mean to us? So always it's about what does it mean to us? And then I've also done some work with organisations. So then right back to the beginning, in a way of working with a team and using it as a way of bringing a team or colleagues together to think about questions and issues together. NW So kind of building on that, where do you look for the stimuli that you would use in these sessions?, RC Ah that's an interesting question. I look for them everywhere. So in the Art Gallery, my job is easy, because I go into the Art Gallery, and then I can have a look and choose one. For the sessions in the pub, I try and have a really varied range. So, in fact, I did a session on Tuesday this week and our stimulus was an excerpt from a book called Bright New World, which is about climate change, and what we know about how to manage and mitigate climate change. It's a very positive book. And there was a section about trave and I just thought, “Oh, that's interesting. It's got lots of different thinking in it”. and then the group came up with their question they wanted to ask. And I use poems, I use short videos, I used a Hey Duggee episode, which is a children's cartoon, and they had I use it there is in fact, I Hey Duggee on philosophy, but I use the one on collecting, and so thinking about what does it mean that humans collect things. And I might also use something from a philosophy book, but I'm not an academic philosopher. So I don't tend to get you know, I'm interested in people's own philosophising, rather than, you know, I'm not bringing that into the room, we're finding out where that comes from. And with the teams or an organisation or community group who have a particular theme they want to explore, then I will be thinking about “how can I, what can I find that would open up questions on that theme without being didactic?” So it definitely needs to be something that's open ended and isn't arriving with a moral opinion into the room. Although, if there is you know, maybe it's hard to get totally away from morality, but people need to have the sense that they can disagree as well as agree. NW Yeah. And that there's presumably that there's sufficient scope within that stimulus to go in lots of different directions and kind of take it their own way. RC Yes, exactly. And that is a very common experience. And, you know, in fact, what's quite common, is that I think “Oh, that's really interesting”. And whatever it is, that's interested me, in the passage I choose, or the artwork I choose, it turns out, you know, no one else finds that interesting, you know, that people will come up with these really different questions, and not what I was expecting at all. And that's one of the glorious things about the process. NW But I suppose with that in mind, though, are there situations where you'd hesitate to use this kind of technique? RC I think it's a tricky question, isn't it? Because in one way, I want to say “no, it can be used everywhere. You know, it's such a rich possibility. And it's so open”, and with my background, in mediation and conflict resolution, you know, it's one of the reasons why I got interested in Philosophy for Communities. But I think, as a mediator, I became a bit frustrated with the idea that people thought, “oh, you know, we need a mediator”. And they typically thought that a lot further on into a conflict, when they may be, you know, if you're going to have a mediator get one early, but also that there's, there's a desire within the idea of having a mediator for a solution and an answer and someone an expert to come in. And so what I'm really interested in as well, maybe if we could all talk to each other more and disagree agreeably, and be able to accept that someone has a different opinion than us, and that's okay, it's just interesting rather than threatening, then that might, it's kind of the groundwork of conflict resolution in a way. So it's almost like the antithesis of social media where people get into these terrible conflicts because they're, they're just getting reactive and up against each other, where P4C or Philosophical Inquiry is about staying alongside each other without having to agree. And so perhaps that means that I'm a little bit more willing to take risks. Because I think, I think a lot of people are really alarmed by the idea of conflict or alarmed by the idea that people you know, people might get upset. I don't want to upset anyone, but neither do I want to quash emotion, because emotion is part of our human experience. And emotion is part of how we know what we think about something. You know, that's a really clear route, if you hear some information, and it invokes a strong emotional response in you, then, you know, that's telling you something about what you think about that information. For me, that's part of the rich potential for Philosophical Inquiry. That said, in terms of my responsibility, as a facilitator, I would always want to be sure that I could create a safe space, or a brave space or an appropriate space for sharing within any community. So I would want to do a dynamic risk assessment of you know, you know, what's appropriate, and thinking back, I suppose, partly to my mediation, training or thinking about power imbalance. And if, if power imbalance can't be managed within the group, then it's not going to have the ethos that I would want. So I would be looking to manage that process but so far, no one's asked me to do a Philosophical Inquiry in a situation where I've said, “No, that's not going to work”. And in fact, family Christmas a couple of years ago, we were just sitting talking, and then we kind of got into a question and really, I was facilitating an inquiry, you know, it was just an area of interest for the five of us, you know, that's possibly quite a bold move, to introduce it completely socially. I mean, there wasn't such a structured thing there. And I always say that in in terms of this practice, that I feel like I've really developed my own thinking, you know, we talk about teaching children thinking skills, but I definitely feel that my own thinking has improved, and that it's doing P4C has made me better at arguing with my husband. I don't know whether he appreciates that or not, but I feel very strongly that, you know, it's I'm, I'm able to think more clearly and to understand more about how I'm feeling and you know, what is the actual question I want to discuss? NW Right and so, with all of those different directions that you've taken it, including into the domestic environment, this might be a difficult question to ask, but where would you like to go next with it? RC And well, I'm really excited about my work with Art Galleries and Museums, and opening those spaces out to more people. And particularly with Art Galleries, I have this strong aspect to my practice, where it's really important to me that you don't need to know anything about art to experience art, and so the Philosophical Inquiry, I think, can really help. I know, it does help people to, to open that up to like, “Oh, my ideas and thoughts are the same and different as other people's, and that that's an equal process. And we're just going to look at the art, and then respond to it.” So that's a really exciting area of interest for me. And in getting people, it can be quite social in that way, in that way, can help with reducing loneliness and isolation. As a social, I always say, “Do you like meeting new people, but you don't really do small talk? You know, P4C is for you”. So I'm interested in that community based work, and particularly with Art Galleries and Museums, and I'm also really interested in the workplace, and teams and colleagues, and bringing people together to think together about what underpins their work. So I think often in the workplace, you can be so focused on action, and practical steps and getting things done, that it can be really helpful to take that step back and think about, well, “why am I doing this? What you know, what is it that brings us together? What are our shared interests and concerns and opening up those bigger questions about the ethos and value of the area of work?” And thinking that through in the background, I think that's very interesting how that works. NW Okay. So I mean, obviously, quite different contexts there, I suppose showing that kind of breadth of where P4C can apply and equally have value, and so I suppose thinking or drawing that right back to a very specific example, when we had our initial call about this podcast, you were just about to run the same P4C inquiry twice with a morning online and an afternoon in person. So I'm kind of curious as to how that went. RC Yeah, that was a great day it was, was for a national organisation who are now of course, much more dispersed than they were before. So that change into a lot of people working from home and coming back to the office, and how does that workplace community function in those ways. And so that was the reason why we had an online session, as well as an in person session, and using the same stimulus and the same session plan, but of course, getting different thinking. So that, in fact, the stimulus or use that was a short film, about how trees communicate. So there's this thing the Wood Wide Web, that trees, you might see trees as individual trees, but in fact, they communicate through their roots and through the soil system, and they can create complex communication. So we had that as a stimulus on each occasion, and then looked at what the concepts were that were coming up, and how that related to the idea of a community of colleagues, and particularly colleagues who now don't necessarily see each other so often. It was a great day, that some of what I noticed about it was the difference between online and in person. And in particular, I've got an interest in the fact that in online sessions, especially in a group, is quite difficult to laugh, and to have humour. Because just purely because of, if someone's speaking, someone else can't be speaking, you know, you get that kind of disjunct between and timelag, you know, whereas in the room, it's much more easy to have that kind of humour and laughter happening. Not that people online, didn't make jokes or enjoy, but there's something different in that in how that works. And it was interesting as well, because when we were looking at what concepts people drew out, that's the kind of starting point they watch the stimulus together, and then think about what are the important concepts here., and there were a lot of commonalities between the morning and the afternoon, but there were differences as well. And so then that led to different questions being asked, and a slightly different focus to the sessions, at the same time as having, you know, a lot of common interest as well. NW It sounds fascinating to have that that opportunity, really, to actually get that real close comparison of the two, the two sessions so close together. So thinking back then, what was your key learning that came out of that that session? RC I think what was was really interesting about having two sessions together, was in future, I would want to bring them back together more. So that it was able it's a very effective process for being able to pull out some learning that's de-personalised. So because you're taking this philosophical approach. And it's asking big questions about the nature of, of life and thinking and attitudes and values, then it does actually really effectively bring out ideas and thinking rather than comments and opinions. And that felt really helpful to me that for in a work, colleagues situation. And often what you're wanting to find out is that thinking that's behind someone's opinion. So that was really useful and in the future, I would want to develop a clearer way to bring that back round together and to share it between the two groups. I was able to do it, but it was, you know, as you learn that process, It's having some shared learning that's coming out of it together. And I suppose ideally, would be to, in some way, bring everyone together at the end. NW Okay, so lots of big thinking to take away then Rosie and no small challenge of kind of working out how to draw all those things together when people are so dispersed, as you said, I think that's, that can be quite a challenge when you know, some people are in the room, and some aren't as well on that whole hybrid way of working. RC Yeah. And I think as well, because of the, there's a stage and an inquiry process where groups come up with questions, and those questions often and then you choose one question to focus, a conversation, the kind of dialogue part of the inquiry. And often, you know, if you've got four or five, six questions, they can sometimes they're all really great questions, and in fact, what you really want to do is take them away and create a curriculum. So that there's something about that the questions that come up can be a really important part of what the learning is, and offering them back in to future team meetings or discussion groups or, you know, staff conference or an intranet piece, I think that there's something about the questions that come up can be, this can be really mind for a lot of interest. NW Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Rosie. It's been really interesting to hear a bit more about it as I said, I had this one idea of what it was going to be like from my perspective, but so many different avenues that you've taken it ,so I'm sure we could talkl all afternoon or evening about it. But then, thank you so much again. And so if listeners are interested to find out more about you or to connect him with you house, what's the best way for them to do that? RC So I have a website, www.rosiecarnall.co.uk . That's probably the easiest way to get in touch with me or to find out a bit more. NW Excellent. Well, thank you, Rosie. It's been great to talk to you bye for now. RC Thank you very much. Thank you. And that's the end of today's episode of Facilitation Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on whatever podcast app you use. And if you would like to contribute to the show, you can get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org Or you can get all the other links from our website facilitationstories.com. This has been Facilitation Stories brought to you by IAF England and Wales.
| |||
| 02 Dec 2019 | FS05 Discovering the Joys of Facilitation with Megan Evans | 00:29:21 | |
Megan Evans is a consultant, facilitator and trainer and host of the IAF meet ups in Wales. Megan describes how she first got into facilitation quite a few years ago, experiencing it as a participant and then being “roped in”. She was inspired by being asked what she and other people thought, and not just being told. Fascinated by the skills and style and started to get more and more involved in doing it herself. She worked for Participation Cymru – the aim of which was to spread participative and facilitative techniques across Wales throughout different organisations. Megan uses a lot of facilitative methods to ensure everyone’s voices can be heard. She talks about it being stressful “in a good way” and what she loves about facilitation, particularly when the group is engaged and don’t notice the facilitator anymore. She describes the best learning as coming from others and how important it is to watch others facilitate. She also goes on training, reads books and does a lot of learning by doing. She also hosts the IAF meet ups in Cardiff where there is a lot of learning and sharing. Learning from others is really important. Although she’s never had a facilitation mentor she would recommend people do. She has a number of colleagues that she co-facilitate with, thereby sharing the load. Over the years she has learnt to recognise that planning is the most important thing and although is more comfortable in her own shoes it still raises her blood pressure a bit! A recent ToP training (ICA) she went on demonstrated the importance of asking questions and Megan tells us a bit more about her involvement with the ICA and the training she does for them. We talk more about an experience that stood out for Megan (an Open Space Technology Session for 130 people) and some of the challenges she has come across. Two of Megan’s favourite methodologies are Open Space Technology and The ICA’s consensus building approach. The next Wales meet up is on 3rd December (3pm – 6pm at the Little Man Café in Cardiff) which will be a 3 hour session and Megan described what they will be doing in that session. You can get in touch with Megan via email (in the episode) Wales Meet up https://www.meetup.com/IAF-Wales-facilitators-and-friends/events/fvmxcryzqbfb/ ICA UK training https://www.ica-uk.org.uk/courses/ Let us know your thoughts: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org And go mad on Twitter! @IAFenglandwales @Fac-stories @Helenejewell #IAFPodcast | |||
| 14 Mar 2023 | FS53 A Co-facilitation story with Paul Kelly and Caroline Jessop | 00:25:35 | |
In this episode Pilar talks to Paul Kelly and Caroline Jessop about co-facilitation. Caroline is a facilitator based just outside Winchester. She describes herself as a creative facilitator and enjoys the things that leave people upbeat and energised. Paul is the founder of Pandek Group which is a Facilitation, Training and Coaching business based in the South West specialising in bridging the disconnect within organisations. He uses Lego Serious Play as one of his facilitation tools. Paul and Caroline have recently worked together on an away day that focused on the disconnect within teams in a professional organisation. They had already had a conversation about wanting to do some work together when this piece of work came up. Caroline describes herself as a born collaborator and how she and Paul have similar expertise but different styles. She felt this piece of work was quite serendipitous and had space in her diary to explore the “gritty” brief. It was also a learning opportunity for them each to experience someone else working and their different techniques. Challenging, questioning, evaluating and rationalising, and reflecting on their own practise. An example of this was in writing the plan and the level of detail, the order of the process. Paul’s way of thinking about co-facilitation is that:
You need to have an open and honest conversation about whose brand you are going under in the first place. Paul and Caroline’s collaboration followed the following stages
Prior to this piece of work, they were both on the IAF England and Wales conference planning team together and Paul also worked as part of a team of facilitators when Caroline brought in several facilitators for a piece of work. Caroline has co-created sessions with a number of people and says this broadens your perspective, and the diversity of experience teaches you things you didn’t know that you didn’t know. Creating the outline for them was okay but the client needed more detail and several iterations of the plan. It helped that two people were listening and gave clarity and confidence in what they were proposing. Caroline and Paul were on WhatsApp, behind the scenes during the meeting with their client and this created a good flow of conversation between them. Being listened to by multiple people by the client is always a good thing. They did the budget conversation live online with the client and they were able to use Whatsapp to do this. They had had a previous conversation about budgets and knew the suggested rate in advance. Throughout this project, Caroline and Paul learned that:
Because of the complexity of the piece of work it was important for them to have had a chance to recharge and share what they did and to discuss when it got really tricky. Here's some advice for someone who is going to co-facilitate or work with another facilitator for the first time:
Connect with Paul Kelly: Info@pandek.org - https://pandek.org/ Connect with Caroline Jessop: Caroline@clearmeetings.co.uk - https://clearmeetings.co.uk/ | |||
| 30 Nov 2021 | FS40 The Endorsed Facilitator programme and the Challenges of Inclusivity | 00:25:42 | |
In this episode, Pilar talks to Anish Hindocha, who has recently taken the IAF Endorsed Facilitator assessment process. They talk about Anish’s experience through the process and then move on to talk about the challenges of being truly inclusive.
| |||
| 15 Oct 2024 | FS 72 Working as an Internal Facilitator with Cath Brooks from the Environment Agency | 00:34:55 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Cath about her role as Senior Engagement Advisor and internal facilitator with the Environment Agency (EA) Cath tells Helene a bit about the EA and the type of work they do. She explains how her role as Engagement Advisor includes facilitation and also how she works an an independent internal facilitator for other projects withing the EA. Cath gives some examples of what she really enjoys about her role as a faciliator including working with the public on a climate adaptation project and working alongside external independent facilitators that the EA also use. She explains that external faciliatators are often used when more complex conversations need to be had, or where there has been a breakdown of trust and someone independent is needed. She shares some insights as to how the internal facilitators network of aroudn 200 facilitators was set up and how she balances her work as Senior Engagement Advisor and facilitator. She tells Helene about a role play technique that really made a difference and about how asking good questions are crucial to her work as a faciliator. Cath also talks about how she keeps her faciliation skills up including attending the IAF England and Wales conferences, and local IAF meetups and EA facilitator learning days. She also shares some advice for other internal facilitators. A full transcript is below. Today's Guest Environment Agency - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) facilitationnetworkmailbox@environment-agency.gov.uk
To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team H.J Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Helen Jewell, and my guest today is Cath Brooks, senior engagement advisor with the Environment Agency. Welcome, Cath C.B Hi, yeah. Hi. How are you doing? Alright? H.J I'm good. How are you? C.B Yeah, good. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for inviting me. I'm Looking forward to it. H.J It's really good to have you on the podcast. Okay, so I have a whole load of questions to ask you, starting with the Environment Agency. I just wondered if you could tell us a little bit more about what the Environment Agency does and what your role is? C.B Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I hope that it'll inspire people. I've worked at the Environment Agency for almost 20 years, and I still absolutely love it. It's a great organisation. So we're a public sector organisation, and we aim, quite simply, to protect and improve the environment. We employ about 12,000 people, and some people work nationally across England, and then some people work in area offices. We've got 14 different area offices across England, so you either work on national issues or you work on local issues in one of our area offices. And I guess to create places for people and wildlife, we work on quite a lot of topics that people are deeply concerned about, and finding ways forward can be difficult on some of the issues, people have strong opinions about the environment and how we should be managing the environment quite rightly. So Facilitation skills are really important in that context, with some of the really difficult issues that we're managing. So some of those topics are things like managing major industry, making sure they're not polluting the environment, and waste, dealing with contaminated land, making sure water quality of our rivers and we've got enough water so water resources as well, working on fisheries, conservation and ecology, and my area that I work on is management of flood risk. So those sorts of issues are really interesting, and people have strong opinions about how we should be managing those issues. So there can be quite a lot of conflict, I guess, which is why facilitation is so important. H.J And so then, obviously that's quite a broad even under the umbrella of the environment, that's quite a broad range of different areas, and in your particular area then, in your role as senior engagement advisor, what does that actually involve? Sort of before, obviously, I guess facilitation is part of that, but I know you also do it sort of separately as well. What does your main role? What does your main role involve? C.B Yeah, so we've got engagement advisors. Obviously, the organisation's quite technical organisation, quite science and engineering led, but we also have engagement and communications experts within the Environment Agency, and I'm one of those. So I work alongside quite technical teams, and at the moment I'm working, I've worked in lots of different parts of the organisation, but at the moment I'm working in flood risk management, supporting our teams. I work nationally, and so supporting our national teams with big projects where there's, they're difficult topics, where people have strong opinions. And my job, my main job, is engagement planning. So we're whatever the project is thinking about what are our engagement aims? Why do we want to work with our stakeholders? Why do they want to work with us, making sure we're not just thinking from the perspective of the Environment Agency, my job is to help our staff to think about the impact it's going to have on on a range of stakeholders, and plan the best methods that we can for that particular project to work out, how can we get the best from our stakeholders? How can they get the best of us? How can we find solutions that work for all of us, not just for the Environment Agency? So we try to avoid taking what we've called in the past the ‘decide, announce, defend approach’. My job is to help staff to be more, to sort of take a more ‘engage, deliberate, decide’, so to help have quality conversations about these difficult issues, really listen to our stakeholders, designing the right methods, really to help create that space for those quality conversations about what can be really difficult issues. And that's my job, is designing those sorts of engagement methods, if you like, and then facilitation sits really nicely alongside that. H.J And so when you do that facilitation, I as far as I understand, you're part of an internal facilitators network. How, how did that kind of come about? When was that set up? C.B Yeah, that's right. So when I joined the Environment Agency, back in 1996 we didn't have many people who worked in engagement roles or facilitation network. So we started really by setting up the engagement roles and setting up training for staff around comms and engagement and how to do that engagement planning like I've just talked about. And very quickly we realised actually there's another set of skills that that we need to develop as well, which is facilitation. So when you are designing methods that involve dialog, you know having facilitation skills, having skills to be able to design those interactive sessions in a way that you're making the most of that time when you've got your stakeholders in the room is really important. And it's quite a different skill, actually, than just engagement planning, being able to design a face to face or an online session where you've got people in the room making the very best of that time. So we're all really busy. Our staff are busy, our stakeholders are busy. So making the most of those opportunities, that's why we developed the facilitation skills courses. So first of all, we started off by getting some expert engagement professionals in to help us design facilitation courses that were for in-house facilitators. And then very quickly, and within about 18 months, we realised that people were going on the training, really enjoying the training, but then struggling to apply the training in their day jobs, because, you know, you could go a couple of months and not use it. And we very quickly realised that if you're going to facilitate, and you have to do it quickly, you have to do it very often, and you need, you need to support each other. So we set the network up to give people safe space to be able to facilitate internally. So to develop people's skills and create opportunities to be able to facilitate not in your day job. So that's why the network was set up, was to, so people could put forward a facilitation request and get someone who wasn't their day job, they went and practised their skill outside their day job, which, which means you can facilitate in a more pure way which was, which has been fantastic. It's, it's worked really well. H.J And I want to ask a little bit more about that, actually. But before I do, I just wanted to pick up on the differences between engagement and facilitation, and where you see the differences being? C.B yeah, I do think they're quite different skills. So I think being able to do good engagement planning across a project, you think we've got big projects that might go on for years, and they're quite technical. You need to understand the, you know, the technical context of that bit of work, what the business objectives are, what the engagement objectives are, what best methods we can apply, you know, to help people to engage with us, and for that to have an impact on on the decision making, that's quite different. You could do that, and then you can realise in that process, there's usually going to have to be some kind of series of face to face events. But the person doing that engagement planning might not necessarily have this skill to be able to run that face to face content, and sometimes actually, we do need a completely independent facilitator. So there might be a topic where we might have lost trust with some of our stakeholders, where it's not appropriate for the Environment Agency to facilitate those conversations and we do need an independent facilitator. And that is whether it's an in-house facilitator and an independent facilitator, being able to design that's more in depth, designing how to make the most of the conversation, how to create a space where people feel safe, to be able to air their concerns and feel listened to. I guess it's like engagement planning, but it's really specifically thinking about that particular conversation and what you want to get out of that conversation. So it's micro design, I guess, within a particular moment in time, and you might use that facilitator, or you might use a facilitator that then exits the process, whereas the engagement person stays throughout and they use the results of that conversation, and they kind of have to carry on, whereas a facilitator might just come in for that particular moment, then they might not be involved again. So they are quite different skills. H.J And so what determines how you choose a particular facilitator, be it an in-house one or an external facilitator. How does that process work? C.B Yeah, so we'd use an in-house facilitator for a process where, so quite often the engagement person needs to be, needs to participate in the conversation. And if the engagement person involved in that bit of work needs to be involved in the conversation, then they'd use an in-house facilitator to help make sure that, you know, they just come in, offer the service, create the space so that everyone in the team can participate. And often there's other people outside the team, you know, other stakeholders and things. And if the topic is not too controversial, it's all to do with positionality and trust and the way the Environment Agency is viewed. If there's good trust and good relationships between all the people, then an in-house facilitator can do that role. When I'm doing that, I upfront say, I work for the Environment Agency, but I'm not here today as someone who works in the Environment Agency, I'm here to facilitate and make sure you're heard. I'd work with all the different stakeholders before to make sure that the design was taken their, you know, that their needs into account. I wouldn't just turn up on the day, so do all the things that an independent facilitator. Obviously, we're a public sector organisation, so it has to make the most out of me as a facilitator and engagement expert. So I try and do that as much as possible. I'd only use an independent facilitator, which obviously costs us money as an organisation. We’d only do that in a situation where we genuinely needed that independence, and lots of reasons for that, but normally it's to do with trust and transparency and making sure that, you know, there might be awkward situations where things might have gone wrong in the past, and stakeholders would feel more comfortable if someone independent is facilitating, even just for a small period of time, just to help us through that. H.J And how many facilitators have you got as part of your network then? C.B Yeah, I knew you were going to ask, I think there's about 200 at the moment on the facilitation network. H.J Wow. Okay, and how do you manage that kind of balance of work in your, let's say, day job, versus facilitating for a different, a different project that you're not part of then? C.B Yeah so for me, I mean, we all do it differently. So we're allowed 11 development days a year. And so I use those Development Days aren't just, you just, don't just go on training courses and things. I use my Development Days to do independent facilitation for other people within the environment agency. So each quarter I have a maybe do one event per quarter for someone else, if it's a chunky event, because you need to do the planning for them, you need to facilitate and then help them with the results. So I think we all do that. We view it as part of our development, and we, you know, discuss it with our line managers and carve out time to go and do it. It's completely up to each individual facilitator to decide, and we have peaks and troughs in our work. If you're working on a project that had a lot of facilitation within that project, then you might not do any facilitation for anyone else in that quarter. But yeah, generally, people use their development time. H.J Okay. And what kind of facilitation do you particularly enjoy? C.B My favourite thing I've done in the last 12 months was when we were at the River Severn, when we did, when I have opportunities to facilitate with members of the public who are not part of the Environment Agency. And I was really fortunate, we were sort of testing a new methodology on the River Severn about adaptation pathways, they're called, so thinking about climate change and the impact of climate change, and we did something called Community panels, where we got members of the community. So an independent facilitator designed the process and needed some sort of support facilitators, and I acted as a support facilitator, and that was really, really fun. It's just a real privilege to be able to hear from members of the public who don't know anything about what the Environment Agency does, and yeah, to help them to have conversations about the environment and flood risk management, and their ideas were absolutely brilliant and really refreshing to hear. And that was, that was great, because most of my work is either internal or with partners that know the Environment Agency well. So that was something that was different for me and really stretched me as a facilitator, bringing together people that didn't know each other. We were doing it online, and, you know, I didn't know them, and it was, yeah, it was helping them to feel relaxed very quickly and heard, that was, that was really good. It was good for me as a facilitator. Good stretch. H.J Nice and how often, I guess, do you get to do something a little bit stretchy? Let's say that you actually learn from rather than, let's say a bit more day to day type stuff? C.B Probably only a couple of times a year, because it did take up quite a lot of time. It was four evenings and a whole day on a Saturday. So that's quite unique. But again, very much supported by the organisation, and was viewed as part of my development. And it was, it was a brilliant part of my development. It really blew the cobwebs off in terms of my facilitation skills. Took me out of my comfort zone, and it was really good. And I guess it would be easy not to do things like that, and it would be, you know, easier just to kind of do the day job. But where's the fun in that? You know, it really, it really helped me, and I took a lot from it back to the day job, and it reminded me about the importance of making sure people are comfortable and active listening. And it was good for me to hear how people view the Environment Agency, who don't know much about what we do. And so, you know, they came up with these brilliant ideas. Like, as an engagement person, I was able to come back in and sort of talk to people about so. But realistically, yeah, time wise, probably once or twice a year. H.J And how easy is it for you then to kind of just thinking about that there's different hats that you wear. How easy is it to be sort of, you know, independent facilitator versus engagement professional, and, you know, to kind of remember which hat you're wearing, I guess? C.B Yeah, it can be hard. I think when you're, we get quite embedded in the projects that we're working on. So I'm working on one really big project at the moment, and, you know, you have weekly calls within the technical team, and you become part of that technical team, and that's where it becomes hard to add value I think. When you're fresh and you go into a team, that's when you know you can sort of challenge in a really constructive way. So I think we just, yeah, I just I do, I need to have reflective conversations with people on a regular basis. So my manager is brilliant for that. She's quite sharp, she's really useful for me and sort of challenging me and making sure that I am still doing the job and not sort of just blending into that technical team.Because facilitators and consultants, the benefit of using independent facilitators is that they challenge on our cultural assumptions, and we have got a lot of cultural assumptions, and we do make a lot of decisions, which means that we probably sometimes can push engagement down the track a bit further than we should. So yeah, so that's it's difficult, but yeah, using, using my manager and and also independent facilitators, that's where they can really add value. I think when we're using them on projects, it's really having really useful conversations with independent facilitators about what I'm working on, and they can give really good advice and just keep you remembering about how to challenge teams in a constructive way. But it is quite tiring. I'm not part of that team. I am there to challenge constructively, and it, yeah, can be tiring, but it's, you do get a lot of rewards as well from it, but you're not part of that team. And that's, I guess that's a bit like what it's like as a consultant, is that you're not, you're not fully part of that team. You're there to kind of help them as a team, to work well together, but not necessarily be embedded within that team. H.J Which definitely has its pros and cons. So thinking about then, the kind of the learning, the development, the support that you have to work as a facilitator, what kind of opportunities? I know you said you have your development days, and that you use those to do facilitation. But what else are you able to do to kind of keep your skills up and to learn more? C.B So we get together as a network, so we have network learning days. So we've got one next Monday, so we run those about every six months where we get the whole network together face to face. We have network days more locally, like we, me and you run one in Bristol, which is really good. And the thing I love about the Bristol one that we do with the International Association of Facilitators is it's so refreshing for the Environment Agency, half the people that come are from the Environment Agency, and half the people that come are just independent facilitators doing all sorts of facilitation across all sorts of sectors, charity sectors, you know, finance sectors all around the world. You know, some of them work in Africa and all sorts of different places. And it's really exciting meeting, and really, really good for us to to be challenged and meet people that are doing facilitation in other places, and they you know that those days are brilliant, and although only a couple of hours, probably learn more in a couple of hours than you could learn, you know, in a whole day online and things and just little conversations and testimonials and, you know, different methods that people are testing out and what's gone wrong and what's worked well. That works really well. And the two day conference that the IAF run in April. So I went to the, I went to that for the first time two years ago, and I went last year as well. And then every year I'm bringing more and more people from the Environment Agency, because that's when I learn the most in the year is just immersing yourself in two days of just learning sessions and being exposed to people that are facilitating in really different contexts. But there's so much that we can learn from each other. So yeah, and just techniques that you just wouldn't even dream of, I just techniques that I wouldn't even dream of, you know, like last time I went, there was an amazing session about using your body and not talking, but just how you can just facilitate using movement and using your body and help with conflict resolution and different difficult conversations with people just using your body. It sounds really strange, but it was really amazing. It's really interesting. H.J I guess it's the same for for any of us that facilitate, we tend to do our particular thing, or even if you're an external independent facilitator, and even if you work across different sectors, you can get a little bit stuck in your own, you know, you have your preferred tools and techniques, and you use them again and again. And so any of those kind of days, you know, for me, definitely I learned so much and been to so many sessions where I think, oh, yeah, that's a thing, I've never thought about doing that. So it's definitely not just internal facilitators that have that, because I think the rest of us do as well. C.B Yeah, yeah, it's great, isn't it? It's amazing. Yeah. H.J It's really nice, the Bristol meetups you mentioned, I think that is a really nice mix of, I think it's about 50-50 split, internal and external. And I'm always amazed myself at the breadth of different types of facilitation, and the more you, you know, you talk about facilitation and what you can facilitate, you know, it's actually quite a huge array. The edges are very fuzzy, but it's really nice to see all those different methods and different conversations that we have together. C.B Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. H.J So thinking about the actual tools and techniques and all that kind of stuff, what's the one thing that you really, really love? I know you've talked about working with the public, what's the one methodology, perhaps, or tool that you really love using? Is there one or a few? Perhaps? C.B So I worked on a research project called ‘adapting to a changing climate flooding coast’. It's like in difficult situations where flood defence is not the answer for lots of different reasons, but there's not a straightforward, this is how we're going to manage the problem. It was a really good opportunity to take ourselves out of our comfort zones and think, what methods within, with these communities could work? Because we've not got all the answers, actually. And so we developed some more conversation based techniques. And so we did role play simulation. I think when people say role play, everybody's like, Oh, but it's a 90 minute role play simulation where everybody gets a chance to hear different perspectives. And so that was a real privilege being involved in testing that and very emotional. So things like role play simulation and those sorts of techniques that support better quality conversations. I sort of we experienced a situation where people have been working together for years and years, like the local flood Action Group and local planners, our members of staff, and people got to the point where they didn't want to go to the meetings anymore, but because it was redesigned around this role play simulation, and they all went along and took on someone else's role for 90 minutes. At the end they, it was quite emotional, and people, I think, were able to empathise and stand in the shoes of I didn't realise I was making you feel like that. And it was a building block for completely redesigning how the different stakeholders then worked together, and then they got together after the role play simulation, said, What does this mean for the way we're going to work together in the future? And it was just, it was very powerful. It wasn't very long. It's only 90 minutes, like I said, but it was just the fact that it was like a key I suppose that sort of opened up people's eyes to realise that they'd all been exhibiting behaviours that were really unhelpful if they did genuinely want to find a way forward with each other and help each other out to find solutions. And also, everyone went to the pub afterwards, which I think also just really helped for them to see each other as human beings and to realise that it's not easy for people to just work in a professional role and take their hat off. We are all people and we, you know, we do really need to respect each other within conversations. And it was a yes, it was quite a simple technique. And in the past, I would have been one of those people as soon as you say role play simulation, I would have been one of those people that's really sceptical, but it's really changed my view on the power of standing in someone else's shoes and pretending you're that person and doing that in a safe space. So that in the last few years has probably been the technique that I think has been most powerful in helping people that are really stuck in positions and the meetings have become very adversarial and difficult, and where our staff don't want to go, the stakeholders don't want to come. You know, it's the worst situation that you sort of as a facilitator and engagement expert that you bump into more often than you'd like to. And it's trying to help people reset their relationships. And it was a really powerful technique. H.J Wow, it's good I guess that you have such a technique that you know definitely works in a given situation. And it sounds like those perhaps conflicting, difficult conversations do come up a bit, I guess, with the very nature of the work that you do. C.B Yeah, absolutely, yeah. H.J And do you get to kind of play around much with different tools and techniques? Because I presume you've got quite a lot of time pressure to actually do the facilitation and do all the rest of the work that you need to do. Do you often fall back on tried and tested things? C.B Yeah, absolutely, we absolutely do fall back on tried and tested things, especially when we're doing things in-house. I think if we were, if there was a situation like that, we would use an independent facilitator to come in and help us. Even if I was doing some of the design work, I would be working alongside an independent facilitator. Yeah, I haven't done any roleplay simulation without an independent facilitator. And I think that is really worth it, and it can make a massive difference. So yes, it's recognizing those situations, I think, where something's become unproductive and difficult, mental health wise, for everybody involved, and it is worth then the investment of we need to do something different here. So we do support those situations.Most of the time,yeah, we're just using run of the mill techniques, like we love online since covid, you know, lots of online workshops, mural boards, or, you know, whiteboards that sort of thing is our go to run of the mill. What we would use all the time, slido polls, things like that. Yeah, that's just the everyday stuff that we're doing. Although, like having to be very wary about not making assumptions about people's sort of not everybody's comfortable with using those, those sorts of techniques, you know. So having to remember that you do need, you do need to give people space to understand how to use the mural board. And I think people, yeah, so the mural boards and concept boards, whatever you use, they're brilliant, but you do have to always remember to do a little intro. It sounds really obvious, but otherwise, I think it can be a real barrier for people. Some people just don't know how to move the bits and bobs around, and just not getting too comfortable with whatever technique you're using, I think is really helpful. There's loads and loads of techniques, and I think one of my favourite ones that I learned at the last International Association of Facilitators is like the role play simulation is a difficult technique, like, as in, difficult to design, and you need to do loads of prep. But the really quick technique that I learned was called, ‘I wonder if’, and that was a really good technique, and it's just a different way of framing things so and that can be used at any moment with even within a meeting, you know, and that thinking about how you frame questions is maybe the, maybe the use of questions and how you frame questions is the most powerful tool that we've got as facilitators, in terms of, even within a session, that can make a real difference and turn a conversation around. H.J And I guess, particularly when you know you can't necessarily redesign a whole session each time for every piece of work you do, and sometimes, if it's about, perhaps just making those small changes, by asking those powerful questions then, and they get you the results, much easier to focus on doing something like that than thinking about sort of grand redesign and using all sorts of different tools and all the rest of it, which is nice, and I think does keep us kind of interested. But actually, there's a question about, I suppose, who are we doing that for? Are we doing that for us as facilitators, because it's interesting, or are we doing it for the participants? C.B Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I love a new technique. H.J I was gonna just a sort of extra question, really, about that online versus in person? What's the kind of balance? C.B Oh, yeah, like 95% online now, I would say. We've always been really careful, I think, as an organisation in when we get people together because of the carbon footprint. So, you know, ever since I joined the Environment Agency, there's, there's always, quite rightly, does this have to be face to face? Yeah, and we obviously use the trains and things like that. And, yeah, now is, since covid, I think it's, I guess, you know, we've realised the potential of online and invested in, you know, the government, just generally, I think, has invested more in sort of tools and techniques to help us as as people working for the government that to use those sorts of tools and techniques to have more effective online meetings. So the vast majority of the comms engagement work I do on projects is online workshops, rather than bringing people face to face. And that's a big change in the last five years, because when I was working on the National Flood and coastal risk management strategy four or five years ago, we did bring stakeholders together, at key points for face to face meetings. I think if we were doing that now, a lot of that would be online, so you still have, you still have meetings with people, but you know, they're virtual, which brings its opportunities and challenges. It's more inclusive for some people, because they don't have to travel. And, yeah, it's, but it's, there's something magical about having people in a room, and that's the bit you miss. H.J Yeah, definitely. I was going to just pick up on the challenges bit. So I've asked you about what you enjoy about facilitation, and you know, nice, all the nice stuff, but what are the main challenges of being an internal facilitator? C.B I think the main challenge is, I'm working on a project where, you know, where I'm always, whatever I'm working on, when you're working on the project, and you're part of the project team and you're the engagement advisor on it, how independent can you be? And that's a challenge. And so identifying when I need to bring in another in-house facilitator, or when I need to bring in an independent facilitator is really important, and I do, I do have to do that often on the big projects I work on. So, yeah, so that's that's a challenge, is recognizing when you need that and being able to see that far enough in advance so you know, so you can plan for that. And the other challenge, I think, is it's easy to get really busy on your day job and on your projects and that they are it is busy, and there is a lot to do,making space for me to go and be an independent facilitator for someone else, when you're really busy making space to do that as often as I can. Otherwise, I don't keep my skills fresh, and six months can go by and I realise I haven't gone and done something. I've done lots of facilitation, but I've not done anything for someone else that's completely independent of my day job. And so that's what I have to check myself on, is making sure that I am, I am still doing that, and when I do it, it's so brilliant. And that's when, like I said earlier, that's when you get taken out of your comfort zone of facilitator, which is what sharpens us up, I think. Because facilitation is hard, it is it's exhausting, but it's brilliant as well, when you have those magic moments, when people have understood, you know, understood each other better, and you've helped, by the way, you've designed that meeting and created that space. You've helped people to move forward more in a more positive way, and that's worth it. H.J Definitely. That's a definite similarity. I think, you know, as external facilitators, exactly the same. Well, certainly for me, you know, it's that feeling, I guess when you've you've done something right, you know it's gone well. And you know that people have come to a good place at the end, it's like, yes. Nice, big glow. C.B Yeah, ready for my Mars bar at the end. H.J Yeah. And so, I guess, last question really is, what advice would you give to anybody else that is working as an internal facilitator. Any words of wisdom? C.B Yes, I would say, keep taking opportunities for training, because I think formal training has its place. And I think going and doing more formal training, it's easy to sort of just do your training initially and then never do any more formal training. I think formal training has its place as facilitators. So going and regularly doing formal training. Definitely mixing with other facilitators who are not part of your organisation. So the International Association of Facilitators provides that perfect opportunity in April. It's you know, and so if you're able to go along, even if it's just for a day, not the whole thing, I think that's really helpful. And then the last thing is, as often as you possibly can, is to facilitate outside of your day job. And I know that's difficult, it's difficult to make the time, but that is, I think, where you'll build your confidence as an independent facilitator. And getting, you know, getting feedback, I guess, is the last bit that links to that other one. So yeah, that's the things I would encourage people to do. H.J Brilliant. Thank you. It's been brilliant to talk to you today, and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and bits and pieces about all of your experience and all the stuff you love about facilitation. C.B Thank you too. H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF, England and Wales N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved, all of the links are on our website. Facilitationstories.com H.J And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use? N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to? H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about? N.W Send us an email at podcast@IAF-Englandwales.org . H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more facilitation stories. N.W Until then, thank you for listening. | |||
| 06 Jul 2020 | FS21 How the Faciliation Profession is Changing with Trevor Durnford | 00:26:17 | |
In today's episode, Helene talks to Trevor Durnford Co-Founder at Facil Profundo, Certified professional facilitator and until January of this year Chair of the International Association of Facilitators. He is based in Uruguay. Get in touch through Twitter with Trevor @tdurnford and check out his website www.facilprofundo.com Connect with @helenejewell on Twitter Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Or just tell us you're listening! Twitter: @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast Find out more about us over at the EnglandWales page on https://www.iaf-world.org | |||
| 11 Oct 2022 | FS48 How to have a conversation with clients about whether a workshop should be in person or online - with John Monks | 00:35:20 | |
For this episode, Pilar is joined by John Monks to talk about how to have a conversation with a client about whether your event or workshop should be in person or online. John is a facilitator, and partner of Curve. He coaches CEOs, and has digested his practice of many years into the book Closer Apart: How to Design and Facilitate Brilliant Workshops Online, which he's co-written with Lizzie Shupak. https://www.closerapartbook.com/ John’s always been passionate about helping people connect with each other in order to collaborate and solve problems, and this drives much of his work. Through facilitation and training facilitators, he looks for “where the edges are” and new ways of helping people to collaborate. Using technology is part of looking at new ways of working. John started as a consultant - freelancing and in a large firm, where there were many opportunities to develop his skills in how to run meetings and help people collaborate. In parallel, he trained as an exec coach, helping people to come up with new solutions. His pivotal moment in his career was attending a course at the THNK School of Creative Leadership – www.thnk.org The whole syllabus was delivered through workshops and coaching. It’s the first time he realised that facilitation could be at the heart of a process and that there were ways in which you could become better at it. Following this, he trained as a team coach - helping individuals develop together as a team can be very powerful. John founded Curve with Lizzie Shupak in 2017, to train people to facilitate - he found the right partner for the right need in marketing and advertising agencies, another sector John worked in. Much of the coaching through Curve for the beginning was done online (e.g. via Skype) as they were working with global clients and teams. At the same time, they were observing the disruption and fatigue that having to travel across the world to attend workshops caused individuals. To investigate how to do this differently, they created the Remote Workshop in 2018, to help individuals and organisations save carbon and save money. Surely everyone would be ready to jump on it? Well, no. Nobody wanted it. But by 2020, everybody wanted it. It was great to be able to show people what was possible in the online space. The evolution of people’s comfort with technology has changed a lot since 2019, and even those who said they were “tech dinosaurs” became very adaptable online. This has allowed John to try new things. He’s also more aware that there is an expectation of having high production values when you are speaking online. And, he’s curious to see what facilitation in true virtual reality will look like… Back to the present, now 2022, when in person workshops have come back. John finds that how much clients want to stay online varies - due to company culture, individual preferences and the experience they’ve had online with workshops. He’s found that many people have kept their workshops online. John refers to the Fast Company article "This strategy can impact an entire organization" which highlights that Virtual training sessions seem to be more effective than in person workshops. https://www.fastcompany.com/90740874/this-strategy-can-impact-an-entire-organization-fast John reckons this is to do with the attention you get when the workshop is online (and we’re talking about well-designed courses), people feel more present. There could also be something around the flexibility of attending an online course, as there’s no travel involved. (These are John’s guesses, based on his experience - but do let us know if you have any other thoughts/facts about why this might be happening, and if this is your experience.) Why do we run workshops? John puts his answer in four buckets: We run workshops to (1) learn and to (2) create/build something new, and the online space gives us the benefit of accessing people from different locations. It’s also easier to access digital tools to help with idea creation etc if you are behind a computer, than if you are in a room together. John believes human beings can be just as creative in the online space, if not more, because we can access more diversity. John reckons that the reason why we hear so much that people are more creative when they are co-located points to the third bucket, which is to (3) build teams (building trust and connection). But John knows this can also be done online - “everything you can do in person, you can do online”. The assumption that there are some things you can only do in person comes from limiting beliefs that haven’t been challenged, or because these are not things that have been experienced directly. But John is not discounting the joy that comes from being physically together with others. Which brings him to bucket (4) building human connections, which is easier to do in the colocated (physically together) space, which removes much of the friction. We need to be specific about why we want to choose one medium over another - it’s not all about being more “creative”, it could be about feeling physically closer to each other, and using all (or most of!) our five senses together. 22.10mins When looking at team-away days, John’s final question of the brief with a client is “What’s the one thing you want to achieve through this workshop?” If the answer is “team cohesion”, then John suggests they do the work together online first, then get together physically and focus the sessions on trust building, empathy, etc. (He covers this in the book too!) With all the options available to clients now, John finds about 50% of people will prefer to run workshops online - even those where team members are in the same geographical location, as some now have different schedules - practically, it’s becoming more difficult to get people together in the same physical space, at the same time. John suggests that training is done online, for co-creation, he suggests 1) online 2) in same physical space 3) hybrid. John does most facilitation in real-time and uses asynchronous processes when there is benefit to having some work done ahead of the event. Now, why did John write a book? During lockdown, his company was inundated with requests, as there are many professions where bringing people to create together is at the core of their work. The only way to help everyone who needed help was to write a book. Their main challenge was to make the book feel as much as a workshop as possible. The team managed to come up with a format to the book which encourages people to go through the material, reflect and put it into action, as well as giving them supporting materials. John realises that his way of writing this book had nothing to do with all the writing methods he was coming across. He worked with a fantastic coach, who helped him and Lizzie to map out the journey of the reader. Then John locked himself away in a hotel room and wrote for a weekend. He did this three times. There is now an online course available called Facilitating Workshops Online. It’s a self-paced course for Facilitators, and anyone who needs to facilitate a workshop every now and then. We have a heavy discount for listeners! Please use the code facilitationstories with this link: https://curvecreative.thinkific.com/courses/facilitating-workshops-online If you have any insights to share about running your own workshops, do get in touch with John through his website: https://www.curve.cc/ (and if you want to know what the .cc stands for, make sure you have a listen!) You can find John on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmonkscurve/ And Pilar would love to connect with you on Twitter @PilarOrti You can follow the podcast through @Fac_Stories on Twitter. | |||
| 20 Sep 2023 | FS59 - A new Chapter | 00:45:16 | |
After over 100 episodes spanning 4 years, Pilar Orti is stepping down from her role as co-host on the Facilitation Stories podcast. In this special episode, Pilar joins regular co-hosts Helene Jewell and Nikki Wilson to reflect on her time on the show and what comes next.
How It All Began
The idea for Facilitation Stories emerged organically at an in-person meetup hosted by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators (IAF) back in 2019. Pilar had given a talk on using podcasting to build community and connection in remote teams. Afterwards, some attendees suggested starting a podcast for the chapter. Pilar agreed to help get it off the ground.
Along with Martin Gilbraith's support, Pilar worked with Helene and another co-host to produce the first 4 episodes and establish a regular cadence. After some early experimentation, they settled into releasing 1 episode per month. The organic, unstructured nature of those early days established the podcast's informal, conversational tone that continues today.
Why Listeners Connect
A big part of the podcast's appeal is its sense of community. As Pilar says, it feels like "listening to your friends." Most facilitation podcasts focus on tips, tutorials, and sales pitches. Facilitation Stories stands out for spotlighting members of the IAF England and Wales community sharing stories and learning from real life experiences.
The hosts' genuine enthusiasm, warmth, and enjoyment comes across in every episode. According to Pilar, her favorite episodes are the unscripted conversations between two or more co-hosts. The rapport and natural interactions make listeners feel like they're right there in the room.
Evolution of Facilitation During the Pandemic
Pilar, Helene, and Nikki reflected on how facilitation has changed over the past few years, accelerated by the pandemic. Virtual facilitation has become more ubiquitous and accepted. More organizations recognize the need for facilitators to help guide productive online meetings and events. Hybrid events also present new challenges facilitators must adapt to.
On a skills level, facilitators have had to expand their digital literacy and learn to facilitate exclusively through a screen. Soft skills like reading the virtual room, fostering connections, and keeping energy levels up become even more crucial.
Co-facilitation partnerships have also blossomed as the complexity and demand increases. Facilitators increasingly team up with those outside the profession who bring complementary expertise.
Key Takeaways
A few key themes emerge from Pilar's time on Facilitation Stories:
Start simple - When launching a new podcast, focus on consistent execution over production value. Get the first 10 episodes done to build momentum.
Rotate roles - Swap hosting and production duties between team members. It keeps things dynamic while building everyone's skills.
Personality matters - Let your authentic style and personality come through. This attracts the right listeners who connect with the content.
Find your niche - Targeting a specific community makes it easier to grow an engaged audience, as demonstrated by the show's IAF focus.
Value enjoyment - Do it because you find joy in the process and camaraderie. Passion shines through and makes it worthwhile.
What Comes Next
While sad to say goodbye to Facilitation Stories, Pilar is embarking on an exciting new chapter. She shared some of the creative pursuits and professional projects she'll be focusing on:
Developing an audio course on asynchronous communication
Exploring the comics medium and using visual storytelling
Continuing fiction writing and other literary projects
Building her podcasting expertise through new shows and helping others level up their podcasts
Authoring books on topics like co-hosting or using Trello for podcast production
After years of client work, training, and teaching, Pilar is ready to put more energy into generating original content and productions. She remains as passionate as ever about podcasting and plans to start new shows in addition to advising others.
When asked if she had any parting wisdom, Pilar expressed full confidence that Helene and Nikki will continue taking the podcast to new heights. She may no longer be there, but the strong community built on Facilitation Stories will carry on
| |||
| 12 Apr 2022 | FS43 Facilitation in the Agricultural Sector | 00:32:40 | |
In this episode of Facilitation Stores, host Helene Jewell is joined by guest Lisa Morgans Lisa is a vet, researcher and facilitator. She is Head of Livestock at Innovation for Agriculture – an independent knowledge exchange charity based in England that works to bridge the science-practice gap and support farmers as they transition to a more sustainable, resilient and productive farming system. Lisa has a PhD in participatory action research and before that worked as a veterinary surgeon in a mixed veterinary practice in Cornwall. Lisa talks about the variety in her role, from project management to facilitating knowledge exchange activities and translating policy into information for farmers. Also, part of her role is training vets in facilitation skills as they are such good skills to have. Over this episode Helene and Lisa discuss the methods used in Lisa’s workshops, which follow the principles of participatory action research and farmer led innovation. They discuss the similarities between Lisa and Helene’s sessions, which although Lisa’s can often take place in the farm itself often have the same type of activities and approaches. Lisa’s methods are often quite visual, and she uses different methods to engage farmers, like the use of ping pong balls for ranking. Lisa talks about the change in communication skills training for vets, and the use of different methods to inspire their clients to change. Vets are looking at different ways in which they can use their skills, and so can see the benefit of facilitation to help with that. Helene asks Lisa how the facilitation community can help the veterinary community. Lisa talks about working with both the professional bodies in the sector, as well as individual vet practices to understand their needs, and how facilitation can help. Helene and Lisa talked about the need in the veterinary sector for accreditation and professional bodies, and how that is different with the IAF who are encouraging more people to promote themselves as facilitators, to raise the profile and understanding of the role. Lisa shared the challenge of moving to online with the projects that she was supporting at the start of the pandemic, as often they were focused on bringing whole farm teams together with other teams from across the country, or even other countries. However, Lisa was surprised at how quickly the farming community adapted to online tools. More recently, engagement has been more difficult as some people had become comfortable with online and so have struggled to come back to face-to-face sessions. Helene reflected on the same challenges, and how this has led to the IAF England & Wales conference in May 2022 being all about hybrid facilitation. Lisa wraps up by talking about the opportunity for facilitation in the farming community, especially as farmers are coming together to work at a landscape scale to make changes, they want to learn from each other and there aren’t enough independent facilitators working in the industry. So if you’re interested, you can work in a fast paced environment with lots of policy changes and an engaged group. Links: | |||
| 20 Feb 2024 | FS64 State of Facilitation Survey and Report with Deborah Rim Moiso | 00:38:54 | |
In this episode Helene talks to Deborah Deborah Rim Moiso from SessionLab about their recent survey and report. Deborah shares her experience as a freelance facilitator and discusses her mentoring program with IAF and her passion for facilitating multistakeholder projects on nature conservation, climate change, and youth training. She talks about how in 2022, the first global survey of facilitators was conducted by Session Lab, gathering data on who facilitators are, where they are, and their age. It was initiated by Session Lab to address the lack of data on facilitators, despite reports existing for other professions like UX design. This survey looks at Facilitation trends and insights from a global survey. Facilitators were surveyed globally, with 1000 responses from diverse regions, including Japan. The report was well-received, with new questions added to better understand learning pathways to facilitation, and feedback from contributors and experts. Deborah talks about the role of expert commentators and how they condensed the data and provided insights, asking questions and challenging assumptions to open discussions and conversations. Deborah describes some of the key findings from the report including Facilitation industry trends and AI adoption. One standout reflection from the report is the generosity of the facilitation community in providing answers, despite the lengthy survey process. Deborah discusses some of the other insights from the report including:
Find Helene on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Listen to our podcasts: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ Connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories Email: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org | |||
| 20 Jan 2020 | FS08 Voices and Stories from our Facilitation Meetups | 00:36:58 | |
If you haven't yet done so, please take a few minutes now to complete our survey - to help to make IAF England & Wales and our facilitation meetups more valuable to you and to others in the coming year: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/T9MSZZJ In this episode, we hear from our IAF England & Wales Meetup organisers, and attendees! Plus, an impromptu conversation with a new-ish IAF England & Wales member. We end with a 12 minute conversation with Anish Hindocha, who's recently set up jigsawconsulting.co.uk and even more recently joined Twitter as @hindocha_anish! Connect also on twitter with @NicolaJMorris, @MartinGilbraith, @AdrianAshton2, @FacilitateThis (Amanda Stott), @JoyceMatthews_, @Penny_Walker_SD. Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org - Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio! Find out more about us over at the EnglandWales page on https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales | |||
| 23 May 2023 | FS55 From Working for the European Commission to Independent Facilitator with Sue Bird | 00:27:49 | |
In this episode of Facilitation Stories Pilar is joined by Sue Bird, who is a European public affairs specialist and facilitator. Sue ran a session on facilitating for government at the recent IAF conference. She talks about how pleased she was to be able to attend the IAF England and Wales conference in Birmingham recently, and how it was great to be able to meet fellow facilitators and understand how they're running their business, how they do facilitation. She talks about how she does both European Public Affairs consultancy work AND facilitation. Sue reflects on a session she attended at IAF England and Wales about structuring your facilitation business. She set up her own business a year ago, following her 30 years work for the European Commission in a number of different policy areas, and in funding programme management. She wanted to set up a business that would play on these strengths and use the training she has received in the Art of Hosting and Participatory Leadership with the European Commission. She used this in her job to help in team building process, strategy development and other areas while employed with the Commission. She still helps them out in this way still as an “Active Senior”. On the topic of how well embedded facilitation is into the European Commission, Sue mentions that the tools they use at the European Commission are well known tools, such as the World Café. She thinks that facilitation is about marrying passion and profession. Sue talks about the very generous training offers in the European Commission and how she was attracted to facilitated meetings and realised that this was something she really wanted to get trained in. The Commission trained people to a good enough point to try them out as internal facilitators. Her facilitation work was in addition to her ordinary 40 hour week. Sue describes the different types of work that she is able to offer now and how facilitation links into the public affairs she gets involved in. Pilar asks how facilitation in government might be different to other sectors. Sue explains that there are political processes that affect these different organisations and that being involved in politics is a very human experience. She talks about how uncertainty can arise and how there is often pressure on public officials. She also talks about when there are changes in the working environment and how reorganisation of services can happen every now and then. When change is in the air, there is quite a bit of uncertainty and, as in all large organisations, people’s opportunity to influence what they do is limited. All of this will affect how people show up to facilitated sessions and how a facilitator needs to manage this. Pilar asks whether when working with people in government, people might not be able to be as open. Sue says that there would probably be a minimum amount of openness but that it will be up to the procurer of the service to set the scene. The facilitator will need to build up a trusting relationship with the client. On the subject of working as a facilitator in an institution with people of different nationalities, Sue mentions the possible challenge of language. She will be soon facilitating a session in French, and although she is fluent, this will be harder work. International organizations tend to create a culture of their own, and there's a certain understanding that broadly facilitators need to accept that and work with it. Sue shares a little about her role with the IAF Belgum chapter and their 24 members. They have two different types of meeting each month. The focus of one of them is on sharing tools that educate, while the other is called a “Facilitators Studio”, where people can experiment. One recent topic has been different decision-making tools. To connect with Sue Bird on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sue-bird-037311129/ You can connect with Pilar Orti on Twitter https://twitter.com/PilarOrti Listen to our podcasts: https://www.facilitationstories.com/ And connect with us on Twitter: @fac_stories
| |||
| 04 Nov 2019 | FS3 What We Learned at the IAF Mega Meetup in Birmingham | 00:40:45 | |
Helene Jewell and Pilar Orti discuss The IAF conference (18th/19th October 2019 in Birmingham) 2 days and an evening which included: Human map, Client Panel Interviewing, Parallel Sessions, Open Space (inspired), Dine Around We hear from James at Session Lab @notjamessmart talking about the sessions he attended. Some of Helene’s and Pilar’s highlights: The panel interview – 3 clients from 3 different organisations, interviewed by Gary Austin with additional questions from the audience. It was great to hear from the panel and question them live. Lots of different aspects were discussed including not underselling the whole package of facilitation and the benefits of the pre and post work. The panel discussion was useful in terms of helping everyone to understand how to explain to clients who “don’t get it”. They were advocates for the profession. They also talked about co-creation by using an external and internal facilitator together. The human map – organised by Hilary Topp. A great way to show where participants at the conference came from and a good warm up exercise. The session from Paul Brand and Andrew Chilvers– emphasising the facilitation skills you bring before the facilitation event and the importance of co-creation with the client. Justine Marchant’s session on internal dialogue and the discussions around the importance of understanding ourselves and the fact that imposter syndrome can still be present even if you are very experienced. Mary Robson’s session on co-facilitation – talking about viewing co-facilitation as a part of the process and not an add-on and how it can be included as an integral part of facilitation. In between the sessions the conversations there were lots of great conversations to be had. During these, Emma Cragg (personal development coach) @ekcragg , suggested she could send a “microcast” , which you can listen to in this episode. Camilla Gordon’s session on her work with refugees in Calais. One of the things she discussed was about what a facilitator brings in and leaves behind in a session, and being a bit more conscious of this QUESTION TO LISTENERS: What do you bring into the session, what do you leave there and what do you take with you as a facilitator? Pilar ran Podcasting for Advocacy and Self Development – started the session with something similar to the human map to gauge people’s experience and interest in podcasting. The session focused quite a bit on the podcasting process. Something to try out – taking notes by repeating what participants were saying by speaking into a phone that had a Google doc open. You can do this by using the microphone button instead of typing. Good to think about with respect to multi generational groups. Open space inspired (run by Penny Walker)– really energising and full of generosity from people wanting to do different sessions. Different people got different things from the sessions. Open space is about having the conversations people need to have there and then. It was also a good time to not have conversations if that is what you needed and take some time out. The sessions were written up on a Pinpoint pinboard (brought along by Keith from Pinpoint Facilitation) The Wall of Wonder – put up by Gary Austin for participants to write up ideas, key phrases from the conference. At the end of the first day Helene and Kim Jones lead a wrap up session using iDeeter – asking people for their key learning and best moments. It was a nice quiet reflective time. A genius moment at the end was the Dine Around organised by Lee Button. Lee chose 6 or so restaurants and booked tables in them so everyone could sign up to go to one of them. Organising the conference – the planning started in January and from this a gentle trickle of work. It felt quite organic and everyone seemed really invested in it, stepped into doing what was needed. The energy of working in a team was great and it was easy to tap into the meet up networks to find out who wanted to do sessions. The content was created by the community so everyone was sharing what they could put into it rather than focus on what they could get out of it. Please let us know your thoughts: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org www.IAF-world.org And go mad on Twitter! @IAFenglandwales @Fac-stories @helenejewell @pilarorti #IAFPodcast | |||
| 09 Mar 2021 | FS30 The IAF's CPF Certification Process and How It Has Been Adapted Online | 00:42:35 | |
In today's episode, Helene Jewell talks to Lindsay Sumner and Simon Wilson about the IAF's Certified Professional Facilitator (CPF) assessment process and how it has moved online. | |||
| 22 Jun 2020 | FS20 Various Voices: Climate Hub, Creating Space to Reflect, Working with Interpreters and Async Facilitation | 00:30:17 | |
In this episode we bring you a variety of different voices from different facilitators on a range of different topics. The Evening Learning and Networking meet up on 24th June which is all about “Selling you and your work” https://www.meetup.com/IAF-facilitators-and-friends/events/268955074/ this link will also take you to some of the other meet ups going on too. The first of the voices in this episode is Susannah Raffe who tells us about the first IAF England and Wales Hub (the Climate Hub), followed Rachel Phillips, who attended the Hub launch meetup and talks about how much she enjoyed meeting other facilitators and how helpful this was. This Hub is about sharing knowledge, stories and insights into facilitator’s roles in tackling the climate crisis. The launch of the hub recently included neutrality vs advocacy and consider the role of the planet as the client.
There is an IAF Slack and one of the channels is #iaf-ew-climate-crisis https://www.meetup.com/IAF-facilitators-and-friends/members/200777848/profile/ Cat talks about how her role is to create spaces for people to pause and considers how relationships can be reset and redefined for example between community and state. As well as between ourselves and each other. She talks about how change really takes hold when people feel it so it makes sense to them. John talks about the softer and more sensitive side to life and the idea of a movement to a saner existence. Cat talks about her work in helping people connect with their job and role in life in a different way and about not losing the human connection.
Roseanna’s twitter handle: @rosanna_acf Simon describes some work over 4 synchronous sessions a week apart and work in between those sessions. He talks about how the participants from 8 different organisations had been split into 2 groups and how in the last session they had diverged in their ideas in the asynchronous work, which made it difficult to achieve consensus in the synchronous session. He talks about the perspective of facilitators in asynchronous and what he things are important to think about: Do the group understand what they need to be doing in asynchronous work? Do they have the time and energy to do asynchronous work? To what extent is the activity accessible? The facilitator to decide whether they are part of the group or not and to consider levels of check in and involvement with the group? How do facilitators get paid for checking in with clients in between workshops when it is usual to get paid for the workshop? How to facilitators get satisfaction from asynchronous work when often energy comes from the group? Pilar shares her own thoughts and Simon describes how he tends to take a step back as a facilitator rather than get involved in between sessions. But that observation is useful and so the group inviting the facilitator into the asynchronous space is important. And on twitter @IAFEnglandWales; use #iafpodcast Pilar Orti @PilarOrti
| |||
| 27 Apr 2020 | FS16 Training Internal Facilitators with Pinar Akkaya | 00:34:50 | |
In today’s episode, Pilar talks to Pinar Akkaya about how she supports organisations by training their internal facilitators. Pilar met Pinar for the first time at an IAF conference a couple of years ago and has since done some work with her. The next IAF conference is on 16th and 17th October – get in touch if you are interested in offering a session. At present this is still going ahead but is being closely monitored in relation to Covid-19.
Pinar first talks about her facilitation journey. She started off assisting her professor when she was a student in his strategy workshops and then worked alongside him after she graduated. She then went on to work in Human Resources and continued facilitating before starting out working for herself. She now works as an international trainer, teaches at the European School of Economics in London and works as a facilitator. She mainly works with big multinationals across Europe. She is also a part of the APM (Association of Progress of Management) international network of French speaking managers and CEOs and facilitates the club’s monthly meetings. http://www.apm.fr/ She talks about her two types of clients - some that embed facilitation into their day to day and want to have a pool of internal facilitators, and Pinar works with them to do this. Whereas some clients are just discovering it and she often encourages them to train a group of employees as internal facilitators. She describes how clients who have a participative culture and are willing to listen to the voice of the employee and embrace facilitation more easily. Pinar has two different hats - as a facilitator, and as a trainer and describes what she sees at the difference between them – she suggests watching an IIFAC video that explains facilitation. https://youtu.be/UDLGjKBHSXg She has separated her training and facilitation services and has two different brands – Signature (about training) and Collaï which focuses on facilitation. Her work cross culturally spans these two. She has a very structured approach to in-house facilitation training and talks about the steps that she follows. She uses IAF competencies as guidelines. She talks about the importance of the willingness of the person to be an internal facilitator, the role of continued practise and her role as a coach in the process, and the creation of a facilitator community within a company. She talks about some of the differences in being an internal and external facilitator and the importance of building an identity as an internal facilitator and the role of the facilitation co-ordinator. She also explains how there is a need for ambassadors within the company and how critical these are for success, and the importance of branding and launching the internal facilitators within the company. Pinar always keeps in touch with her clients, so she is able to keep up to date with how they are getting on and is able to see the positive impact of facilitation. She describes how the selection process is often something to pay particular attention to, and then the challenge is often about managing the demand for the in- house facilitators within the company. Pinar also has her own podcast about wine Juliette'in Kadehi (in Turkish).
Get in touch via email podcast@iaf-englandwales.org Send us some text, or even an mp3 audio https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales Twitter Pinar Akkaya @PINARAKKAYA and Pilar Orti @PilarOrti | |||
| 10 May 2022 | FS44 Understanding How Neurodiversity Affects Workshop Participants' Experience | 00:25:09 | |
In today’s episode Pilar talks to facilitator Paul Kelly. He’s going to be running two sessions at the IAFEW Re-Facilitation conference on 13th-14th May 2022 in Birmingham and online. His first session will be on “Collaborative Consensus”and the second will be a facilitated discussion around neurodiversity. Paul first talks about how he got into facilitation and then about his interest in Neurodiversity. "Neurodivergent" is used to describe a variety of conditions and Paul emphasises that having conversations with people, allows sessions to be more inclusive. Paul shares some of the ways that people might engage differently from the starting point is that we all have different ways to interact with the world. When facilitating, sometimes simple things can make a difference. This can include thinking about how to reduce anxiety for example by sending a photograph of yourself or the venue in advance so people know what to expect. With slides using off-white slides and using straightforward fonts and thinking “less is more”. Asking one question at a time is important and thinking about sensory overload including what you’re wearing, both clothing and fragrance. Sometimes it’s about talking to someone about the adaptations they use to allow them to work the way they want to work. Paul always asks in advance if there is anything that can be done in to make a session more accessible and allows more than one way of working. Paul talks about the approach to his session at the conference and the link between neurodiversity and social dynamics. Paul describes that some people see it as their superpower, for others they may term it as an inhibitor, for example being in distracting environments or experiencing challenges with social cues. When it comes to employment, employers need to understand the value of having people who think differently in an organisation. Pilar asks Paul how facilitators can address the topic with direct clients. This can depend on the relationship but Paul suggests not assuming a client will understand neurodivergence. In which case starting with open questions and saying it’s OK not to know and to ask about the right terminology. He also talks about having conversations with clients but respecting confidentiality. Paul suggests offering an advance conversation with participants but then also observing the room and any adjustments once working with a group. Paul closes with a reminder that it’s not possible to get everything 100% right for everyone but it’s about being willing to listen, adjust and sometimes to risk getting it wrong. Links:
If you’d like to attend the conference on 13th and 14th May you can register here: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/re-facilitation-conference-2022-registration-254755770367 Details of the programme are here: You can find out more about Paul Kelly through his website https://pandek.org/ Connect with Pilar on Twitter: @PilarOrti | |||