Don't Say Content (Devin Bramhall & Margaret Kelsey)

We're even less filtered than normal in our Season 3 finale, so buckle up: we’re talking about our challenges with gender inequity, patterns of entrenched misogyny, societal expectations, unhealthy boundaries, and reflections on how our careers are viewed by others in the industry.

Big life changes and challenges bring big reflections and feelings. They also spotlight challenges we’ve accepted and taken for granted, bringing a strikingly clear question to the fore: Why are we so afraid?

[NOTE: We’re continuing this convo and starting others during the holiday break on Substack. Follow along and participate: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/]

We’re afraid telling the truth will piss people off. We’re afraid of becoming a pariah: getting fired, being “unhireable”, and alienating our friends and colleagues. 

When faced with the opportunity to address interpersonal challenges that are rooted in systemic prejudice, inequity, and unfairness, a lot of us (yes, us too!!), we begin to doubt our experience is real and rationalize to avoid ruffling feathers. 

Nothing has actually changed, we’re sorry to say. The same misogyny, inequity, and bad behavior still exist, they’re just hidden in a black hole. Not behind or cloaked in something, they are an active part of our current societal galaxy, studied, written about, analyzed, and discussed. 

None of that has led to meaningful change. Worse: it’s given us the belief that change has happened, making us feel accomplished and comfortable, such that we accept a daily reality that still really sucks. 

What would happen if we stopped being afraid and angry and started approaching change with curiosity, bravery, compassion, and love? What if we had shared language around our challenges, including with the people who we are challenged by? 

It still won’t be easy. People will still get mad. Unfair things will still happen. But if all that’s happening already and nothing is changing, isn’t it time to step outside our comfort zone and try something new? 

Tune in for a heartfelt and vulnerable discussion around the real human issues we face today–as women, and as people. We hope to leave you with something to think about, and maybe a bit more shared language around these experiences.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this replay, we're talking about one of those tough moments in leadership. You’re ready to hire marketing talent (either your first hire or a head of marketing), but you don’t have a background in marketing.

What background do you look for? How do you set them up for success?

We’ve seen the downward spiral of failure: your VCs/board giving bad advice, a lack of shared language around marketing roles and responsibilities, an over-indexing on tactics and copy edits— and they all lead to a revolving door of bad-fit marketers coming in and out of your organization. 

Devin and Margaret explore how to successfully hire for and manage a role that you’re not an expert in—on this episode of Don’t Say Content.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this episode, Devin Bramhall joins Ashley McGovern and Melissa Moody on their show, 2 Pizza Marketing.

Like what you hear? Check out their show here: https://www.2pizzamarketing.com/

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Marketing is really just relationship-building at scale. But within that "scale" are activities that aren't 100% programmable. That's what a successful marketing mix looks like. But explaining that to stakeholders isn't always easy. As marketers we have to be both business strategists, human connectors and creatives. Today we're talking with Rachel Elsts Downey, founder/CEO of Share Your Genius, about the growth strategies available in tight economic climates and how no aspects of marketing are, in fact, dead.

Resources:
Connect with Rachel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelstsdowney/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

What if community wasn't a strategy? What if a community was part of your business model? What if it was just part of doing business?

Community isn’t just about building a customer feedback loop or customer support center. And more importantly, it’s not a place to spread your message like a megaphone to your audience. Many founders get this wrong because their head is stuck in scale mode. 

B2B marketing execs Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at Openview, Director of Brand and Creative at Invision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) discuss how community and what we can glean from it as we head into 2023 and beyond. 

Resources:

Nassim Taleb Article: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15#.hr22nda85

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

When times are changin' the rigidity of prescriptive playbooks simply don't work. Instead, companies need adaptive strategies that enable them to capitalize on timely opportunities (the term "growth hacks" comes to mind - with shame), and experiment constantly all while making progress towards their growth goals. Is this the marketing utopia we've all been waiting for? Who knows, but we're excited to hear more about this new, more flexible approach from founder/CEO of Minuttia & GrowthWaves, George Chasiotis.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Nobody wants to think outside the box anymore, and it is so boring! 

While creators and solopreneurs have incorporated video, AI, newsletters, partnerships and more to diversify their product offerings and growth strategy, executives in B2B continue cowering behind old growth tactics. 

While these execs complain about diminishing returns from SEO, social and paid channels, brave and curious brands are empowering their marketing teams to experiment. They welcome community-forward tactics with qualitative impact measurements.

They understand that exponential growth often comes from the intangible, so confining their  creative and critical thinkers the same old linear marketing activities will only achieve the predictable.  

According to Semafor’s business reporter, Liz Hoffman, “A world that’s more fractured, risky, and dynamic affords the opportunity to zig where others zag.”

Time to learn some new dance moves. 

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/ 

No one taught us the new skills we needed when we became heads of marketing/VPs of marketing. 

All of a sudden, the majority of our work wasn't marketing itself. Not the external stuff. The majority of our work was executive alignment around the priorities and budget of marketing. And to do so in an exec team that - for the most part - didn't have a marketing background. 

Daily to-do's changed, and it was painful. It felt like we were doing work that "didn't matter" because it wasn't seen externally. Even more painful? Having to learn how to delegate enough work that you have time for these new to-do’s. 

In this episode, we explore the overlap of executive alignment, delegation, and motivation. Giddy-up y’all. It’s a good one. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Is the marketing industry better or worse off in today’s day and age based on the fact that we have access to more data than we could ever possibly report on?

They share stories of the good and bad ways they’ve seen data used to adjust marketing programs, the power of data in marketing experimentation, and share hot takes they gathered from their friends in the industry.

Since we have so many data points across platforms and initiatives, there’s so much to interpret and use to make decisions. The themes of this podcast can also be summed up in a few questions to help you think about data in your marketing execution:

• Are you using reporting to tell an effective story?
• Can you categorize your marketing goals and results into vital and experimental categories?
• Are you using your data to inform what programs you’re keeping and cutting?

So press play to hear Devin and Margaret dive into the relationship between data and marketing success.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this replay episode, we revisit the stories our CEO & founder friends shared with us last year about what topics are keeping them up at night. While they've probably moved on from these problems, they're still problems that plague many a founder and marketing department in our industry. We channel their full consultative skills and reference their experience in similar situations and roles to answer these three main questions:

How do you build a marketing team that buys into your bigger mission and vision? Not spammy tactics. 
How do you combat analysis paralysis in a small marketing department? 
How can you embrace and maximize the messiness of the marketplace right now? 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/
Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Subscribe to Devin's new newsletter, Ta Gueule: https://www.devinbramhall.com/newsletter

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Have you ever had one of those days where you just don't feel like doing anything? Or maybe a deadline is looming, but it's not quite here yet, so you're putting it off? You just can’t seem to make your brain do what it needs to?

Devin and Margaret jump into their shared insights into what motivates them and how they tackle obstacles to rise above the pernicious "shoulds" in their life. The act of inventory-ing the “shoulds” and deciding what is actually key to forward progress is crucial. We call this ruthless prioritization (or as we’ve called it in the past, killing your darlings). Identifying the 20% of work that delivers 80% of the results is essential and cutting out anything that aligns differently from your priorities. 

Get their personal stories on how leadership can craft a more helpful work structure to maximize motivation and the importance of building trust with your leaders to make that happen. Devin shares a hysterical college story about procrastinating until she had a spark of inspiration. You won’t want to miss this one.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

The market has rapidly evolved over the last few years. What worked 5 years ago isn’t working as well as it used to, and we’re seeing signs of more “traditional marketing” fading into the background in the B2B space. So what can we do to increase our chances of success? Where is the future of content headed?

Our hosts, Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey dive into their thoughts on what is working currently, how we can all capitalize on technology and existing marketing tactics, and where the future of content is going.

Here’s a quick hit of their takeaways:

• Focus on personal brands and insights attached to lived experiences. Create authentic and relatable content that speaks to the experiences of your target audience. Use your own personal story and expertise to add value. 
• Future-proof your ideas and solutions. Create content that will continue to be relevant even as the market changes. Use a media-first strategy to publish your content on a variety of platforms through a variety of people. 
• Now is the time to experiment. We’re moving away from an owned audience approach—lean into building out channel-specific content to really connect with your audience on their chosen platform.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ 

When left unresolved, fear keeps us from being productive, connecting with others, and ultimately from personal and career growth. It also never goes away and in fact, can become an even bigger obstacle as you progress in your career.

Whether you work for yourself, run a team or a company, fear surfaces over and over to present unique challenges. But when you learn how to work with fear, it can lead to a kind of bravery and curiosity that transforms your creativity and careers.

In this episode, Devin and Margaret invite fear to the table for a little chat. Listen as they share their experiences navigating fear professionally and personally, publicly and privately, alongside each other and their most trusted community (including some top-tier advice from Momma Bramhall).

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

To submit an executive thrashing or marketing nightmare story for the podcast, record your story (2 min. or less) here: https://www.speakpipe.com/dontsaycontent

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius:

https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

This replay episode might be one of our favorites of all time.

Audacity - or as the kids call it: delulu.  You need more of it in your life.

In this episode, we explore our own relationship with audacity, how to cultivate it, why it’s so elusive to maintain, and why it’s so important at this (and any point) in your career.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Times of chaos can be huge opportunities for companies who are open to thinking outside the playbooks and frameworks they’re familiar with. 

Leaders who approach current industry and economic challenges with curiosity and bravery will find themselves uniquely positioned to win. It’s time to get scrappy!

This includes how marketing leaders plan for growth on limited budgets and even more scrutiny from investors, CFOs, and CEOs. These days, a good marketing strategy looks a lot more like a business strategy, and that’s a good thing. 

How come? 

• The same old tactics aren’t as effective based on a cultural shift in focus to individuals over brands
• We’re living in a decentralized online social era, which is ultimately a good thing for brands, but short-term means a more hands-on approach and recalibration of how companies measure ROI
• Marketing talent is mediocre and they likely won’t be competitive until after they go through operating in a tough economy  

What companies need most right now is a strategic growth plan optimized for short-term impact, flexibility, and efficiency. That’s where outsourced marketing partners shine a much-needed bright light on dark times. 

 Join your hosts, Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey, as they explore the untapped potential outside of the traditional in-house marketing setup. 

Jump into the conversation:

(10:30) The Freelancer Takeover

(15:30) Understanding Leaders’ Challenges

(18:45) Burnt out? Move on.

(25:00) Our Consultant Recipe

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Is marketing a creative or business role?

We believe that marketing should be heavily involved in business strategy - not just creative strategy. But oftentimes, the marketing teams are positioned to support business growth rather than craft the strategy itself.

In this episode, we explore how founders/CEOs can deploy their marketing function to focus more on business strategy, and what comes first (no, no - not the chicken or the egg, the business strategy or the go-to-market strategy). 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Experimentation is the Queen of Marketing Strategy these days as Martech continues to evolve, GenAI content becomes the new keyword stuffing and Google follows their hearts on SERPs in what seems like a midlife crisis-induced mushroom trip. No one knows what’s going to happen, so the best marketing strategy today involves testing & play to determine the best tactical mix for your business. Ned MacPherson, Chief Growth Officer of Power Digital is here this week to share what trends he’s noticing in CRO right now and his thoughts on the future of marketing strategy.

Resources:

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Bonus episode time! Before season 4 drops, enjoy this bonus episode where Margaret joined Ramli John's Marketing Powerups podcast to talk about her strategic brand flywheel.

Like what you hear? Check out Ramli's podcast here: https://marketingpowerups.com/podcast/

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this replay episode, we look back at a discussion we had in Q4 last year around the problems our CEO and founder friends face. Since many of their problems felt, at the time, like nothing new, you can see how we wanted to revisit these again this year. Because even if the problem isn't a new one, that doesn’t mean they aren’t any easier to handle. So we hope our discussion will help bring you back to reality, center your actions around progress, and give you jumping-off points for solving these common problems among your leadership teams.

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Q4 has begun, and the year is coming to a close. But you’re in overwhelm—from setting new goals for next year, setting the big vision for your strategy, and oh yeah—finishing out this year strong. But that overwhelm and busyness is not new to the B2B tech world.

Some of the problems that rear their heads in times like these are just that: nothing new. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t any easier to handle. Where do you find the right marketers to take your team to the next level? Where do you find creative, strategic ideas when you’re overwhelmed with the day-to-day? How do I enable my teams to act on our bigger mission and vision?

To help cut through the noise and overwhelm, Devin and Margaret asked their CEO & founder friends about what topics are keeping them up at night. Their answers will help bring you back to reality, center your actions around progress, and give you jumping-off points for solving these common problems.

Devin and Margaret channel their full consultative skills and reference their experience in similar situations and roles to answer these three main questions:

• How do you build a marketing team that buys into your bigger mission and vision? Not spammy tactics.
• How do you combat analysis paralysis in a small marketing department?
• How can you embrace and maximize the messiness of the marketplace right now? 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Did you attend this year’s HubSpot Inbound conference?

Whether you did or not, Devin and Margaret are here to break down the highlights of everyone's favorite marketing conference. What did they take away? What was their favorite part? (And maybe even spill a little tea about where they leave room for improvement, too.)

From juicy behind-the-scenes details of being a speaker at one of the top marketing conferences to tried-and-true conference strategies, this episode will have you both laughing and learning as Devin and Margaret reflect on their time at Inbound together.

In this episode, we’ll explore:

The power of thinking outside the booth: Devin and Margaret dish on why getting a booth might not be the best move for your event marketing strategy. Discover out-of-the-box ideas that will raise eyebrows and set you apart from the sea of sponsors.

Throw your own party: Who needs a boring sponsored event when you can throw a bar takeover?! Learn how brands grabbed attention, engaged marketers, and made lasting connections (with free drinks—you love to see it). 

Secrets from the green room: Devin and Margaret talk VIP experience for speakers and conference attendees alike, while also discussing some of their favorite backstage marketing efforts they’ve seen and executed—including a backstage video series at Appcues, where they tapped into the adrenaline-fueled minds of speakers post-presentation.

Jump into the conversation:

03:10 VIP vs. Regular Ticket

05:30 Community Over Everything

10:45 Best & Worst Conference Event Marketing Strategies

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Welcome back to Don't Say Content! While we gear up for season 5, we are re-releasing a timely episode on marketing attribution, AI in content strategy, and the evolution of SEO and brand awareness. To get even more specific, we dive into the ongoing debate over the relevance of attribution models, the necessity of integrating quality relationship-building content, and the balance between human-centric and algorithmic approaches. Enjoy!

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We’re back! With a quick bonus episode before season 5 kicks off in January 2025. We’re keeping the feed rolling until then with some replays and bonus episodes to keep you company, and in this bonus episode, we’re catching you up on what we’ve been up to lately. Hope you enjoy, and see you in January!

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/
Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Subscribe to Devin's new newsletter, Ta Gueule: https://www.devinbramhall.com/newsletter

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

It’s 5 pm, do you know how your CMO is doing? You probably do, because they are anxiously wading through the same muck wondering how they are going to deliver consistent results while the foundation of their industry and macro environment are in tumult. 

The average day of a CMO right involves trying to strategically plan growth when even demand gen playbooks aren’t functioning like they used to, buyers are taking longer at every stage of the journey, budgets are both reduced and less consistent QoQ, and no one wtf is going to happen with interest rates, search, AI, the election, wars, etc will impact their companies, campaigns, day-to-day lives. 

So yeah, CMOs are feeling it, too, and we talked to a few for this episode as a kind of group hug and reminder: You’re not alone!

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Over the past 5 years—and especially in 2023—hiring in every industry has been turned upside down.

Marketers want to know what has changed, and what has stayed the same. What goes on behind the scenes of hiring the best marketers? How do marketing execs evaluate cover letters and resumes? What are they thinking about and evaluating during various phases of the interview process? 

Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at Openview, Director of Brand and Creative at Invision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) share their hiring secrets. 

• Revealing how marketing execs are thinking about total compensation and benefits 
• How marketers’ skills are evaluated, from experience, KPIs, and the ever-controversial marketing project 
• How to research and negotiate the best salary
• What hiring teams, marketing managers, and execs are looking for in cover letters and resumes

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ 

It’s a tough moment: You’re ready to hire marketing talent (either your first hire or a head of marketing), but you don’t have a background in marketing. 

What background do you look for? How do you set them up for success?

We’ve seen the downward spiral of failure: your VCs/board giving bad advice, a lack of shared language around marketing roles and responsibilities, an over-indexing on tactics and copy edits— and they all lead to a revolving door of bad-fit marketers coming in and out of your organization.  

Devin and Margaret explore how to successfully hire for and manage a role that you’re not an expert in—on this episode of Don’t Say Content.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Newsflash: your lifeboat has a hole in it. Oh, and that life vest you’re wearing—lol. It doesn’t help when you’re sinking into an ocean of lava. 

No, we’re not talking about the apocalypse, we’re talking about what it takes to make your company survive in 2024 and beyond. If you’re reaching for familiar growth tactics, you’re putting your company at risk and missing the opportunities embedded in times of uncertainty and change. 

Here’s the deal: the only reason your playbooks worked before is because everything worked up until a year ago.

Smart business leaders see business strategy in chaos. They experiment and take risks to uncover unique opportunities to get ahead and they need their marketing and growth teams to support

From tactics to team-building, Devin and Margaret share insights on real-life examples and strategies to leave you reevaluating how (and if) you’ll pick up a playbook again.

Jump into the conversation:

(01:00) Oi with the playbooks already

(11:00) Should you future-proof?

(18:00) Playbooks & Building Teams

(30:30) Wrapped in a bow?

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We talked about it way back in season 1. Today, what we’re interested in is: What personal brand currently does for individuals, particularly in a world where there's waning trust among institutions and executives? 

Personal branding is reputation. As tech moves faster, channels change more rapidly, you have to  harness your reputation. Yes, even if you’re B2B. Actually, ESPECIALLY if you’re B2B. 

You have a personal brand, regardless if you’re activating it through social channels. Even if you don’t want to be an “influencer”, this episode is for you. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

For all the hype around marketing right now, very little is actually happening besides Google solidifying its dictatorship over businesses trying to use the internet for some free marketing. 

Nothing is free anymore it seems, except the public displays of insanity by humans on the internet. It’s basically become an adult children’s book of attempted quips gone wrong, and we love it. It’s a stage for guileless dopes fighting for fame in small, dark corners and megaphone platforms alike. 

This week, instead of trying to flip nothing burgers into $50 wagyu appetizers topped with fake truffle oil, we’re using the internet for the thing it’s best at: free fun. Gather round, children, it’s storytime, and all your favorite characters are here. 

Links from the show:

• Chocolate Meditation Collection: https://www.vosgeschocolate.com/products/chocolate-meditation-collection
• Heike Young's Video: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/heikeyoung_if-i-talked-to-my-kids-like-some-brands-talk-ugcPost-7196524826096730112-DES-
• Clark Barron's post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/clarkbarron_if-i-see-another-marketing-post-on-linkedin-ugcPost-7197237317206425600-zI8x

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We had just recorded an episode about CMOs being anxious when Devin attended AudienePlus’s Golden Hour conference, where the IRL of stressed-out and disillusioned marketers was not only the prevailing topic but also the mood of attendees. This one-day event was a cathartic gathering of senior marketers eager to get their feelings out (then drink them away) amidst the golden strangeness of fake paparazzi, Lindsey Sterling’s eating disorder, and a decadent setting that didn’t quite convince any of us that everything is going to be OK—but did show us that we’re not alone. And that felt pretty good. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Just like Content Marketing, growing an audience (organically) takes consistent investment and patience. How much time depends on your resources, strategy and - perhaps most importantly - how broad of a community you're trying to build. Plus a whole bunch of other questions and factors within those areas. We've learned a lot while building Don't Say Content with Share Your Genius, so today we're going to share all the things we tried, what really happens, and how we view audience-building strategy after 2 years of building our own.

In this episode, we're exploring how the evolution of personal brand in B2B is changing everything from strategy to roles to team structure. Plus Margaret and Devin share their very different personal brand experiences.

Plus, Futurist Astrologer, Jenn Hirsch, shares her take on personal branding in 2023 in light of a more recent trend, the mycelium network. 

To submit a marketing nightmare story for the podcast, record your story (2 min. or less) here: https://www.speakpipe.com/dontsaycontent

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Soulful Wealth: https://soulfulwealth.co/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius.

https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We’re back with a bonus episode to hold you over until season 3 drops in September of 2023!

What are your guesses for how many times our hosts Devin and Margaret said the word “content” during season 2? Hint, it’s over 50. 🤯

Devin and Margaret reveal the total number and more in this episode, including teasing what’s coming up for season 3, reflecting on the original premise of Don’t Say Content, and sharing a few times where saying the word “content” was actually warranted (that might also double as a shame reel).

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

As you ascend to higher levels in your career, your most valuable skill becomes navigating internal politics, policy, and process. It's not just about managing up when you work for large companies, it's about managing many senior stakeholders and the dynamics they bring with them. Competency goes a long way  to getting the opportunities you want, the budgets you need and support for your initiatives. 

We're going live with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian, to learn her strategies for navigating the corporate maze to elevate your influence and efficacy.

Connect with Ashley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyfaus/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this replay episode, Devin and Margaret share stories from their experiences working with founders/CEOs in-house and agency-side over the last decade to discuss the issues at play in the CEO/founder and marketing leader relationship. 

Some bigger themes they cover are the importance of shared language and understanding of metrics, how communication and trust impact the CEO/head of marketing relationship, and the balance between brand and funnel, and why CEOs and founders should step back from leading marketing departments. Plus Devin shares what she learned from being CEO and working with her marketing team, as well as anonymous stories from their clients.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Remember when you felt like your boss just “didn’t get it”? They didn’t understand your constraints, your blockers, how much you are doing? It turns out, when YOU then become a boss, despite your best intentions, it’s easy to make those same mistakes. How come? One contributor is that you’re confronted with an equation you never anticipated before you were in your boss’ shoes. And that repeats as you move from manager to director and onwards. In this week’s episode, Devin and Margaret are talking about one leadership blindspot in particular: the feeling vs fact of company structure constraints.

To submit an executive thrashing or marketing nightmare story for the podcast, record your story (2 min. or less) here: https://www.speakpipe.com/dontsaycontent

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius.

Control and creativity don’t always play nice together—especially when you’re leading a team. Knowing when to hold tight to your vision and when to let go is a balancing act that even the best struggle with. Some leaders micromanage every detail, others delegate so freely they lose sight of the bigger picture. And somewhere in between? That’s where the magic happens.

So how do you trust someone else to take the reins without losing the essence of what makes the work great? And how do you know when it’s time to step back versus step in?

In this episode, Devin and Margaret explore the messy reality of creative control, why it’s so easy to cling too tightly, and how data can help cut through your own bias. Because good leadership means making yourself less necessary.
 
Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Audacity - or as the kids call it: delulu. 

You need more of it in your life. 

In this episode, we explore our own relationship with audacity, how to cultivate it, why it’s so elusive to maintain, and why it’s so important at this (and any point) in your career. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this bonus episode, Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey sit down with Rachel Downey, CEO and Founder of Share Your Genius (their production company) to reflect back on how the podcast came to be, how transformative it has been for themselves and their personal brands, and how this podcast has helped move them past their fear.

And don’t worry, there are some solid asides too. You won’t want to miss hearing about the episode that got cut. 😉Press play for a look back and a look forward in the world of Don’t Say Content and B2B podcasting.

Connect with Rachel Downey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelstsdowney/

Listen to her podcast, Voicemails with Rachel: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/voicemails-with-rachel/id1648953137

 Check out Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

It's bonus episode time!

Our host, Devin Bramhall joined David Khim, Co-Founder of Omniscent Digital, on Onmiscent's podcast, The Long Game. They discuss Devin's rise from content manager to CEO, the future of AI, content marketing, and leadership lessons, where Devin reflects on lessons learned from mistakes she's made along the way.

Listen to The Long Game: https://beomniscient.com/blog/category/the-long-game/

Connect with David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidlykhim/

Getting behind the mic and discussing industry trends, professional (and personal) growth, and sharing their stories has led to a lot of learnings and even more growth for our hosts, Devin and Margaret. 

In this episode, they reflect on what they’ve learned and where this podcast journey has taken us. We’re bringing season 1 to a close with humor, wit, and a peek behind the curtain at the podcast process.  (But don’t worry, we’ll be back before you know it.) 

Stay with us to the end for a special reading from Jenn Hirsh, futurist and astrologer, and former Ernst and Young Head of Startups and Futurist. And check out Soulful Wealth here: https://soulfulwealth.co/

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this replay episode, we're revisiting lessons we've learned around failure.

Did you just get fired? Spend a bunch of money on a marketing project or campaign that didn’t work? 

It can feel like marketing failures are happening today at a higher rate than ever before. Markets are changing; buyer’s processes, decision-making, and budgets are in flux; and companies are switching up their marketing organizations and leadership. 

Devin and Margaret explore our own relationship with failure—and what you can do next—on this episode of Don’t Say Content. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

What does personal branding actually do for individuals today—especially in a world where trust in institutions and executives is fading?

Personal branding is your reputation. As tech evolves and channels shift, your reputation is your leverage. Yes, even in B2B. Actually, especially in B2B.

Like it or not, you already have a personal brand—even if you’re not actively building it on social. And no, you don’t need to be an “influencer” for this to matter.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Confusion. Miscommunication. Misunderstandings.  That’s what happens when marketers and business leaders use too many buzzwords. 

YET WE ALL KEEP USING THEM (us, too). Chaos agents disguised as trendy trifles that we claim to aid in communicating our marketing plans and getting buy-in from CEOs, clients, and teams. Poppycock! 

Don’t use buzzwords, say what you mean, otherwise, you’re just perpetuating a broken system where:

• The C-suite doesn’t trust marketers
• Marketers struggle to get buy-in from C-suite
• Lots of money is wasted on team overhauls, constant changes in strategy
• Progress stalls because you keep going in circles

Join Devin and Margaret as they dissect the problems that buzzwords create and the threats they pose to businesses. 

• how leadership latches on to trends, 
• how to incorporate these “strategies” into business goals, 
• lack of alignment and mutual understanding that founders, CEOs, and heads of marketing alike experience as a result of buzzword salads

Plus some bonus advice may or may not be helpful, but it came out in the convo, so we’re sharing it with you anyway.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Welcome to Don’t Say Content, a new podcast hosted by Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey.

Are you a:

—a leader of people?

—creative-minded individual?

—someone who enjoys a good spicy take?

Every Tuesday Devin and Margaret say what’s really on their minds about the marketing industry. After over 10 years in the industry, they are bored with the current state of marketing. So they made a podcast to inspire themselves and fellow marketing leaders who feel the same. They aren’t sharing tactics, playbooks or guides. They aren’t interviewing smart people (or anyone) about marketing. They are talking to each other about why they are annoyed with marketing and what they think needs to change to make it better. 

Plus, get weekly predictions from futurist astrologer, Jenn Hirsch, founder of Soulful Wealth.

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Follow Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Follow Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Follow Jenn: https://soulfulwealth.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius.

Follow Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Follow Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius.

Here's a bonus episode from Devin's conversation with Joei Chan on her post, Good Boss, Bad Boss. It's a meaty one where she share lots of secrets about being a good and bad boss, and stories from her time as the boss of all bosses (CEO).

Also, season 4 is dropping soon! We're kicking off season 4 on 2/6 with a live show on YouTube. You won't want to miss it. (And if it's past 2/6/24—press play already.)

Listen to Good Boss Bad Boss on Apple, on Spotify, or on YouTube (or wherever you get your podcasts).

Connect with Joei: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeichan/

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius

In this replay episode, we take a look back on the content strategies of the past, and of the past/present when this was recorded (in 2023). Where is content marketing headed? Where has it been? What can we take with us into 2025? Things we discuss include personal branding, relatable content, and value-additive content—which never go out of style. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/
Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Subscribe to Devin's new newsletter, Ta Gueule: https://www.devinbramhall.com/newsletter

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Why can founders and CEOs let marketers do their jobs? From cutting marketing projects mid-flight, to not clearly defining goals or changing KPIs on a whim, founders and CEOs continue to mettle in marketing. Why does this keep happening?

Last season we talked about what’s wrong with marketers and the marketing industry. It’s time we flipped the script and put the spotlight on founders and CEOs.

B2B marketing execs Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at OpenView, Director of Brand and Creative at InVision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) break down all the pitfalls they’ve seen in the marketer-founder relationship. Listen in to hear their stories and helpful strategies (like a shared decision-making framework) to help you navigate the founder-marketer relationship. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

We’ve got a sweet treat for you this week: a deep dive into Halloween candy, horror movies, and a deep analysis into how much Margaret pumpkin spice lattes in the fall vs summer months. 

…And we continue our convo about the marketing gig economy and how fear-based decisions are causing marketers and leaders to miss the huge opportunity in front of them: Chaos.

No more social “town square”; folks have scattered to small communities across platforms. For now, marketing budgets are anemic and it is taking longer to close deals. But, within these and other realities are opportunities for marketing freelancers AND companies. 

• Freelancers are in demand because companies are afraid to commit due to lack of certainty in the market
• Companies can make the most of their budget by creating hyper-focused plans and hiring freelancers to serve only those immediate needs 

Forget the headline hype. Pull a Jennifer Connolly and flick away those inaccurate categorizations of the current moment, think for yourself, and tell that hairy fear monster: “You have no power over me.”

When you’re done, have yourself some candy corns, watch The Monster Squad, drink a pumpkin spice latte, and you’ll see: when the playbook stops working and nothing is as it used to be, you’re in the best place possible to level up your career and company. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

B2B buyers used to be wowed by a sleek product demo and a well-placed buzzword. Now? They’re rolling their eyes at your AI-powered, next-gen whatever.

The reality: your buyers have changed. They’re more diverse, more skeptical, and they don’t care about your shiny tech unless it actually solves a problem. They grew up with software, they expect it to just work, and they see through the fluff. So why are so many marketers still selling like it’s 2015?

In this episode, Devin and Margaret get into what’s actually shifting—generational shifts, demographic changes, the great wealth transfer—and why this is the biggest opportunity since SEO became a thing. If you want to keep up (or at least not get left behind), it’s time to rethink your playbook.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/ Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Instead of frameworks and playbooks, let’s talk about how culture, brand, content, and community intertwine to create a successful marketing strategy. In this episode, Devin and Margaret remind us that marketing isn’t always about numbers and tactics. What really makes marketing departments successful? What fuels recruitment and retention of employees while also building a community around the brand? 

To submit an executive thrashing or marketing nightmare story for the podcast, record your story (2 min. or less) here: https://www.speakpipe.com/dontsaycontent

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius:

https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

This is the best episode we’ve ever recorded. 

Is it because we get into an in-depth spicy conversation (cough, argument, cough) about why everyone and their mother are measuring awareness and affinity marketing programs totally wrong? Is it because Margaret gets so heated that she drops f-bombs, and eventually Devin says something she RARELY ever says? Is it because we put CFOs completely on blast for ruining marketing metrics?

You decide! 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Are websites still pulling their weight in B2B marketing, or are we all just clinging to the past?

In this episode, we’re throwing a little shade at outdated digital strategies and breaking down the chaos marketers face today—think shifting customer behaviors, the AI takeover, and the sneaky lies your web metrics might be telling you.

We’ll get into what’s actually working (spoiler: word-of-mouth is still the GOAT) and what’s long overdue for a refresh. Plus, we’re answering listener questions and serving up no-BS takes on where to focus your energy.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your website is a hero or a money pit, this convo will make you look at your digital playbook in a whole new way.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/ 

Quality content is a north star for companies, founders, CEOs and marketers alike. But few agree on what “quality” means. Those who do have a definition are often missing important criteria that can lead to ineffective marketing content that flops despite following their “quality” rules. 

Quality as it relates to content and marketing is relative because it isn't just about the perfection of what you are creating in your marketing strategy. Quality in marketing is also determined by how effective the content you’re producing is impacting company growth. 

Listen to top B2B marketing execs, Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at Openview, Director of Brand and Creative at Invision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) set the record straight on what quality means and how to achieve it.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

In this replay episode, we dive into fear and what it can do when left unresolved. And spoiler alert, it keeps us from being productive, connecting with others, and ultimately from personal and career growth. It also never goes away and in fact, can become an even bigger obstacle as you progress in your career. Whether you work for yourself, run a team or a company, fear surfaces over and over to present unique challenges. But when you learn how to work with fear, it can lead to a kind of bravery and curiosity that transforms your creativity and career. So we invited fear to the table for a little chat. Listen as we share our experiences navigating fear professionally and personally, publicly and privately, alongside each other and their most trusted community (including some top-tier advice from Momma Bramhall).

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

All marketers have heard absurd statements from bosses and co-workers.

In this episode, we’re sharing stories from marketers about the hilarious and downright baffling requests, feedback and mandates they’ve gotten from on high: bosses and others in the C-suite, clients, know-it-all VCs and the beloved tech teams who think they can do marketing better. 

From unrealistic expectations to bizarre feedback (like, “make it more magical”), we take a look at the moments that will make you lift a brow.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/ 

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this replay episode, we summarized the "state of marketing" and what we were looking forward to in the future. Are we there yet? You decide. But we can tell you we’re (still) looking forward to some genuine human connection and fostering authentic content creation in the coming year more than we are into slangin’ the same old worries we’ve been talking about (idk, marketing/exec alignment, AI takeovers, and old school marketing strategies, to name a few).

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Most of us used the wrong criteria when we evaluated job opportunities at some point in our careers. 

You know what they are: reactive, emotion-driven departures. Being lured by pay without evaluating the health of the company. Taking a lateral move at a company based on a promise that - if we were looking at the situation objectively we’d know—never results in the upward motion or promotion we were promised. 

The list is long. 

Then comes this point where you not only see the whole game board, but you stop judging it, which frees up your headspace for objective evaluation and strategic career planning. And that’s when things really take off. 

Today we’re tackling a listener question: how do you know when it’s time to leave your job? 

Join Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey as they examine their own career trajectories to extract the decisions that helped them move up to senior-level marketing roles, CEO and then to successful consulting careers.

• Short-term versus long-term—what choices will get you closer to your career objectives? 
• Do you even know what you want? 
• Strategic mindset: aligning your career objectives with the organization to accelerate your progress.
• The crucial role that discomfort plays in your career and how to make it your strategic advantage.

Jump into the conversation:

04:00 Title vs. salary: what matters more?

13:00 Values Influence Leadership Decisions

25:30 When Margaret Almost Missed an Opportunity

The TL;DR? Devin and Margaret want to urge you to analyze opportunities based on personal goals and values, advocating for a more logical and data-driven approach to job decisions rather than simply complaining about current situations. So join us for a discussion that will leave you encouraged to reflect on your career choices, embrace change, and pursue your goals with confidence and clarity.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

The People-First movement in workplace culture has risen in popularity over the past several years and ushered in the concept of bringing your “whole self” to work. It aims to prioritize the well-being and satisfaction of employees. But does bringing your whole self to work truly benefit you and your colleagues? And do you truly want *everyone* to bring their whole self? Your boss, your CEO, etc - does it make you feel more safe knowing every part of everyone at the company? 

Several challenges arise when whole self to work:

1. Unrealistic expectations
2. Increased entitlement
3. Lack of accountability
4. Inequity and division
5. Decision-making challenges

As our hosts Margaret Kelsey and Devin Bramhall dive into the people-first movement, they explore what policies actually put employees first, what amount of transparency is too much, how leaders influence the people-first movement, and how all of this is impacted by the remote and hybrid work environments that are much more common today. 

One thing they know for sure? Choosing to bring your best self to work each day is your best bet for your career growth. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

Ever feel like content marketing comes with way too much drama? Same, bestie.

In this episode, we’re taking a closer look at those so-called “emergencies”—typos, broken links, chaotic launches—and letting you in on a secret. It’s never life or death.

We’re going to share relatable stories of missteps, embarrassing moments, and the occasional PR hiccup. Because let’s be real—most “emergencies” are just overreactions to everyday challenges.

Content marketing has its chaotic moments, but most of what we call crises are just opportunities to regroup, rethink, and laugh about it later.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com

We meant to record an episode on influence vs fame, but instead we had it out about life in general right now and what we’re doing to thrive and cope. We know other folks are experiencing their own deluge of circumstance, so as per usual, we’re broadcasting our own closet monsters in the hopes that ya’ll might benefit. 

Expect stories about giving up perfection, letting go of the need to control, and why it’s not about doing more—it’s about doing what feels true to you. (It could also be about doing absolutely nothing at all, which Devin has been leaning into lately.)

We’re breaking down the chaotic moments that come with trying to “have it all”—satisfaction, stability, and - maybe a little more often - a sense of peace. From setting boundaries to creating our individual definitions of “success”, we’re going into 2025 skeletons out and ready to face the big hairy monsters head-on.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/ 

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Moments of chaos are moments of opportunity. That is your marketing mantra heading into 2024. 

In this conversation, Devin and Margaret cut through the chaos that is the present-day marketing landscape to offer marketing leaders a bit of clarity. The key to your company’s strategic growth may not be as complicated as you think. It isn’t another tool in your tech stack, there’s no AI hack, and it’s not something you can gather pixel data on.

Are you ready for this? The answer is… your network. It’s your community and like-minded human beings who may be interested in your brand or product.

Especially in the rat race atmosphere of the VC-backed B2B startup, pressure to achieve meteoric growth at all costs blinds marketers, founders, and the rest of the c-suite to sane, sustainable goals—solutions to growth that don’t require endless budget and a dizzying mix of marketing channels paving the halls of your sales funnel. Lazy girl marketing, if you will.

Jump into the conversation:

(03:00) Why We’re Talking About Community

(13:00) Referral Partnerships for the Win

(24:00) VC’s Missed Opportunity

(36:00) Time to Experiment

(42:00) Stop Measuring by Channel

If you’re ready to take a breather, get back to basics, and create your own job security, tune in to this episode for some real talk and reassurance.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

The world of creativity is multifaceted. How do you tap into it? How do you use it effectively? And how do you enjoy it?

B2B marketing execs Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at OpenView, Director of Brand and Creative at InVision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) explore the multidimensional nature of creativity and how it can be unlocked through various means. From taking breaks and pursuing fun activities to pushing through exhaustion with set goals and rewards, they detail their creative journey and the many strategies they use to generate ideas. 

From reading fiction to Jane Fonda, Devin and Margaret talk about the different pathways that have inspired their own creativity, ultimately leading to deeper insights into human emotion and complexity. They also touch on the human tendency to seek neat conclusions and how leaving things open-ended can improve memory retention.

Dive in for a creativity ride—the many ways of creative experimentation and exploration will leave you wanting to get your hands dirty.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

We’re not outspoken; we’re speaking…the truth. Our culture doesn’t support women in the workplace effectively (or in some cases, at all), and it doesn’t support the men who are trying to operate and lead equitably, either. But let’s give the bulk of the credit where it’s due: there’s a significant number of  men and women who don’t support change either, often in ways that are subtle and thus difficult to identify, let alone fix.  

As a follow up to “Let’s Just Say the Things We’re Most Terrified of Talking About: We’ll Go First”, we’re getting even more vulnerable as we continue the discussion about the impact our still misogynist work culture is having on us personally, our friends, the industry, and society as a whole. And the biggest question on our mind: what happens if women simply opt out of the workforce altogether? 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

On this bonus episode, you'll hear our own Devin Bramhall in conversation with Alex Kracov from Dock on his show, Grow and Tell. They talk about how startups should be thinking about content, how she scaled Animalz, and how she grew our podcast, Don't Say Content.

Check out Grow and Tell here: https://www.dock.us/grow-and-tell

😱WHAT. A GUEST?! 😱 We said we weren’t doing an interview show, but we did need a hand with this week’s topic: how do visual mediums help achieve business growth, and what role do executives and team members outside the marketing team play in modern marketing strategy?

Rachel Downey, CEO and founder of Share Your Genius joins the show today to break down what companies actually want to do: create content that moves your company toward your growth goals and outcomes. 

Marketing is about influencing human behavior. Sharing stories from a business and human perspective helps brands connect with current and potential buyers through the experiences shared by folks across the team, including the executive suite. Visual media can increase the pace of connection by showing the humans behind it sharing their ideas, perspectives, answers, tips, or just joining a conversation. 

This should be music to the ears of executives and investors alike: media-led, community-focused approach to B2B sales and marketing removes the paradigm of “scale” and introduces a self-perpetuating cycle of high-converting, WOM-driven growth that costs less and sustains longer.

Take your hand off the wheel: self-driving marketing is here, and it looks nothing like the programmatic, scheduled, templatized content marketing of the past. 

Jump into the conversation:

(01:00) We’ve got a guest?!

(03:50) What’s up with creating a media brand?

(20:00) Nearbound 🤢Community 👍

(24:00) Setting the foundation of your story for max connection + growth

And we know you’re wondering—are we going to continue to have guests? Probably not. Are we going to have Rachel back on to talk about this topic some more? Probably. Stay tuned. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

The relationship between Founders/CEOs and their heads of marketing is broken. 

The Boss doesn’t understand how marketing works, so they micromanage their marketing leaders into poor performance. Marketing leaders struggle to communicate value because much of their work isn’t tied directly to revenue and they don’t always know how to speak to the business metrics and challenges that matter to The Boss. 

This tension at the executive level leads to wasted money, slowed company growth, and more recently: record CMO turnover in 2023 and a stagnation in B2B Marketing strategy (and efficacy) due to a hamster wheel of starting from scratch. 

In this episode, Devin and Margaret share stories from their experiences working with founders/CEOs in-house and agency-side over the last decade. Some bigger themes they cover are:

• The importance of shared language and understanding of metrics
• How communication and trust impact the CEO/head of marketing relationship
• The balance between brand and funnel-building initiatives
• Why CEOs and founders should step back from leading marketing departments

Plus Devin shares what she learned from being CEO and working with her marketing team, as well as anonymous stories from their clients (you know it’s juicy when Devin and Margaret aren’t sharing names). 

The spicy takes are abundant in this one—proceed with caution. 😉We’re sending off season 2 with a bang. We’ll be back in September 2023!

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

What if we started looking at marketing as a business growth strategy instead of a promotional department? 

Devin and Margaret discuss the role Marketing plays in fundraising and investor board meetings. They explore how the current startup investing structure only widens the trust gap between CEOs and Marketing, including understanding the chasm and how that leads to wrong solutions that are often avoidable. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

What makes a marketing function successful today? 

There are new trends and old playbooks, but what marketers do startups really need? And what about bigger companies? 

We talk structure, success, and our big dreams for what it looks like in the future. 

Join us as we chat through what types of marketers we see rising to the top now, and how marketing can best align and structure itself to grow into the future.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Did your content marketing achieve its intended outcomes? If YES, then it’s quality. If NO, then it’s not quality. 

B2B marketers are obsessed with “quality” content. Some are obsessed with The Style Guide and are incensed by a missing comma (especially if it’s Oxford). Many are obsessed because they are stuck in an unofficial yet ongoing companywide debate about what makes High Quality Content and can’t get anything out the door. 

Ultimately, defining quality content marketing should be as simple as: did it work?

In this episode, we’re exploring the messy truths about quality, style, and why perfection isn’t always the goal. Because let’s face it—success is about being effective, unique, and embracing the beautiful chaos. Not perfection.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/ 

Killing your darlings. Creative constraints. Narrowing scope. In this episode, Devin and Margaret face the challenge of focus—how to create focus for your team without stifling creativity? How do you relinquish control to your direct reports and peers so you can focus on the bigger picture? High performers at any level crave nuance and challenge, and sometimes that means killing your darling idea to focus on something else. Tune in to hear Devin and Margaret share their own experiences navigating this through their careers.Plus, Futurist Astrologer Jenn Hirsch levels with  Devin and Margaret about the chaos in store over the next three years. Giddy up.

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

To submit an executive thrashing or marketing nightmare story for the podcast, record your story (2 min. or less) here: https://www.speakpipe.com/dontsaycontent

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius:

https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We’re back for season 3 with a topic sent in by a listener: the relationship between sales and marketing.

Fraught relationship or not, there is so much opportunity and growth when these teams are aligned. So why is it so hard to make that happen?

Devin and Margaret challenge leaders to bridge the communication gap with their sales counterparts, and challenge marketers to gain an understanding of how to extract crucial customer information from sales conversations, build exclusive content offers that drive engagement, and collaborate effectively to achieve growth objectives.

With thought-provoking discussions on the evolving landscape of account-based marketing, event strategies, and the importance of aligning goals and responsibilities, this episode leaves marketing leaders with plenty to ponder, including:

• Why marketing + sales have to be aligned from the top down
• The power of effective marketing (dangling carrots) that sales can actually use
• Ideas for how marketing + sales can work together for real impact

Subscribe to our newsletter for bonus content: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius

An award-winning podcast production company working with the largest B2B brands to drive engagement,and retention: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Amplified by Casted

Podcast and video marketing platform for B2B brands to grow their audience and impact the bottom line: https://www.casted.us/

Marketing by Kristina Carson

Digital marketing and social media expert. https://www.kristinacarson.com/

Stealing ideas is as old as time, but in the age of AI and content overload, the lines between inspiration and straight-up plagiarism blur. Some folks remix, some give credit where it’s due, and some? They copy-paste, cross their fingers, and hope no one notices.

When someone lifts your words, runs them through ChatGPT, and then presents them as their own—without even a casual nod in your direction—it begs the question: where do we draw the line? And more importantly, why is it so damn hard for some people to just own up to it?

In this episode, Devin and Margaret get into a wild story of a LinkedIn post gone rogue and the frustrating reality of getting credit for your work (especially as a woman). They also dig into the emotional labor of thought leadership, the myth of originality, and why sometimes the best response is just… not showing up to the fight.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Are we really at peak content? 

An IG story is an IG story. A TikTok is…well, a TikTok. Calling everything content isn’t exactly strategic. It’s time to move away from lumping everything into one pile and treat our creations with more intention. 

When you stop thinking about just creating “content” and start thinking about the message, medium and outcome, you realize there’s still room to create something unique that your customers and community have never seen before - and find valuable.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/ 

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Ideas Are Scary commercial: https://youtu.be/LG2oaGh0jmk?si=3YgVH4ln0OAMy0E7 

Have you missed us?! Don’t Say Content season 4 is coming back on February 6th, and we’d love for you join us—here on the feed or live, on Youtube.

We’re starting the season off on YouTube live on February 6th at noon ET. But don’t worry, we’ll drop the live show on the podcast feed if you can’t make it.

Wanna join us live? Check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=danFfrLz5XQ

(And set your notifications so you don’t forget!)

Otherwise, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the new episodes.

We asked, you answered. What are your least favorite marketing jargon terms?

Sourced from our loyal community on LinkedIn, hosts Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey discuss some of the most used marketing terms in the industry today, challenging marketers and executives to move beyond “strategic” and “evergreen” as descriptors of your efforts. And in Devin’s own words, “Say what you actually mean.”

But don’t worry, Devin and Margaret know they aren’t exempt from this industry-wide communication plague. Margaret offers up some of her most-used buzzwords, and they work together to break down what she’s trying to convey when she says “sexy” in a business strategy context. They also dive into why content is their top do-not-say word and how these words become almost meaningless. 

Listen in for:

• Ways to communicate beyond overused buzzwords
• Why prioritizing people-first content moves us away from buzzword trends and into a more authentic marketing industry
• Hot takes and listener submissions to make you laugh about the terms we’ve come to hear too often

Subscribe to our newsletter for bonus content: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius

An award-winning podcast production company working with the largest B2B brands to drive engagement, and retention: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Amplified by Casted

Podcast and video marketing platform for B2B brands to grow their audience and impact the bottom line: https://www.casted.us/

Marketing by Kristina Carson

Digital marketing and social media expert. https://www.kristinacarson.com/

Building a community isn’t as simple as posting content and hoping for the best. It’s about real connections, authentic conversations, and making people feel like they’re part of something bigger than just your brand.

In this episode, Devin and Margaret explore what it really takes to build a community-driven brand, the challenges that come with it, and why it’s way more than just the “marketing tactics” you read about. They break down how to foster genuine relationships and why understanding your audience is the key to it all.

Because in the end, real community is about showing up, being human, and letting people be part of something meaningful.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Did you just get fired? Spend a bunch of money on a marketing project or campaign that didn’t work? 

It can feel like marketing failures are happening today at a higher rate than ever before. Markets are changing; buyer’s processes, decision-making, and budgets are in flux; and companies are switching up their marketing organizations and leadership. 

Devin and Margaret explore our own relationship with failure—and what you can do next—on this episode of Don’t Say Content. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Has your latest challenge reshaped your definition of success? If yes, you’ve likely unlocked a deeper level of growth. If not, it might be time to consider a new perspective.In a society fixated on constant achievement and proving our worth, what if the toughest moments—like surviving cancer twice—are the ones that teach us to embrace imperfection, laugh more freely, and trust the process?

In this bonus episode from the podcast 1,000 Routes with host Nick Bennett, Devin opens up about making bold career pivots and how her battle with cancer transformed her outlook on work and life. She also shares lessons on building a career that aligns with personal values, advocating for yourself in challenging times, and staying motivated through life’s toughest seasons.

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Subscribe to the 1,000 Routes Newsletter: https://1000routes.com/
Full Stack Solopreneur Roadmap https://fullstacksoloroadmap.com/ 

Ok, ok. So, we’ve all been wrapping our heads around how to use AI in our content marketing production and distribution for a bit now. It’s time we talk about it. 

In this episode, we dive into some bigger questions. How should you think about AI? How will it affect quality? What does AI change? And what will always remain? 

If you’re using AI, or if you’re too overwhelmed to even know where to start, this one’s for you. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this episode, Devin and Margaret discuss the wet blanket trend of marketers complaining about work. From quiet quitting to rage applying, they are totally bored by this macro passive-aggressive trend and can’t wait for marketers to start creating again. Devin and Margaret look back on the early days of their careers in marketing, and what the industry looks like for current and future marketing leaders.

Plus, Futurist Astrologer, Jenn Hirsch, shares her take on hiring and firing and the opportunity it presents for creatives.

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius.

Here’s a bonus episode where our host, Margaret Kelsey, joined Exit Five, hosted by Dave Gerhardt. 

Layoffs, budget cuts, slower sales cycles, and a lack of urgency to buy your product right now. That's become normal in B2B SaaS over the last two quarters. But what does it mean for marketer? Do nothing? Just play defense? Yeah right. Marketers are being asked to do more with less, and if you're one of those marketers this is a session you don't want to miss. Dave is joined by Margaret Kelsey (Founder of TatCo, Marketing Advisor), Jason Widup (VP Marketing, Metadata), and Shauntle Barley (Director of Marketing, Demandwell) to talk about the state of B2B marketing in Q2 2023 and helpful ideas for driving growth in a down economy. 

Listen to Exit Five: https://www.exitfive.com/podcast

Follow Dave: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davegerhardt/

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to the Don’t Say Content newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

The Year is 2014. The article title is 7 Tips For Cooking The Perfect Marry-Me Chicken. You wade past the thick veil of misogyny, but the stench of grifting just won’t go away. The first tip is to Check Your Local Grocery Store For Sales, with an affiliate link listing nearby sale produce.

Flash forward to 2023. You’re scrolling through LinkedIn and belligerent posts about AI flood your feed. You search for the earnest, meaningful comment furthering the conversation, but all you see are grifters masquerading as “thought leaders”, piling onto the conversation like those zombies climbing over the wall in World War Z.

In the early 2010s, the listicle had a chokehold on the way we wrote content for the Internet. Add all the keywords, the affiliate links, and make them spend MORE time on page.

Today, in the era of trending audios and runaway LinkedIn virality, it seems like the Internet not only wants but NEEDS your griftiest ideas. But even at the mercy of The Algorithm, there’s an authenticity that you can see and feel in good writers and creators even while executing the trendiest of trends. We’re not really sure how you’ll like this episode, but we hope it starts an honest conversation.

See you on LinkedIn?

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ 

Fame is a rat race both to reach and then maintain. It’s not for everyone. But these days, folks who want to support themselves as content creators or “influencers” kinda have play the fame game. Only instead of hiring a PR team to stay in the zeitgeist, they have to become constant content machines and algorithm strategists to earn the popularity badge of engagement and make money.

But what if you want to be seen and known and involved without living your whole life “on stage”?

Influence - the real kind - is a middle ground, and it’s how Don’t Say Content became popular and sustainable and fun for us. It’s an asset of value to our listeners, to sponsors, and to us as a creative outlet. Having an influential podcast means we can be consistent, not constant. And that feels pretty good.

In this episode, we’re breaking down why chasing constant visibility isn’t the only way to build a brand and how you can achieve still influence without having to be everywhere all the time constantly forever. Because let’s be real—sometimes the most powerful move is knowing when to say “best of luck on your future endeavors.”

Resources:
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We’ve talked about a lot of things the past 17 episodes—so where have we landed among the strategies and thoughts and endless fodder around the “state of marketing” at the end of this season? Well, we can tell you we’re looking forward to some genuine human connection and fostering authentic content creation in the coming months more than we are into slangin’ the same old worries we’ve been talking about (idk, marketing/exec alignment, AI takeovers, and old school marketing strategies, to name a few). 

So tune in for a snorkel (not a deep dive) through the topics we’ve covered in season 4, and we hope you’ll stay tuned in for some bonus content to come before season 5 drops this fall. Catch ya later, you jerks. 😉

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/