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20 Jun 2018
133: Cider's Chemical Fingerprints
01:05:15
Attention Cider Makers! Understand Your Cider’s Chemical Fingerprints
John Edwards presented “Cider’s Chemical Fingerprints” at the United States Association of Cider Makers (now referred to as the American Cider Association) annual conference in Baltimore Maryland (CiderCon) in February 2018.
The full title of this workshop was The Complex Fingerprint Analysis of Cider and other Alcoholic Beverages by Quantitative NMR Spectroscopy.
Cider’s Chemical Fingerprints Power Point Sync with Audio
Watch the YouTube video of John’s presentation complete with power point.
What is NMR and how it is used with Cider’s Chemical Fingerprint
Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) spectroscopy is an analytical chemistry technique used in quality control and research for determining the content and purity of a sample as well as its molecular structure.
What can NMR Spectroscopy do for Cider?
Interested in nutritional labels?
Wonder what the cost is to do an analysis and get your own label?
Have a stuck fermentation?
Trying to set up a baseline for tracking terroir?
Need help analyzing cider or other beverages?
NMR can do all of the above, albeit not all of this is now being done with cider. However in the wine industry NMR is used to track vintages and terroir, so it is perhaps just a matter of time.
437: Parting Cheers with CEO Michelle McGrath of the ACA
00:54:05
After 8 Years at the helm Michelle McGrath is switching gears
Michell McGrath
Michelle McGrath, CEO of the American Cider Association (ACA), reflects on her impactful leadership, the growth of the cider industry, and her next chapter. In this episode, Michelle shares insights into her journey, upcoming transitions, and the exciting plans for CiderCon 2024 in Chicago.
Key Milestones at ACA
Membership Growth: ACA membership has significantly increased during Michelle’s tenure.
CiderCon Success: The premier U.S. cider conference continues to thrive, with growing attendance and international collaborations.
Sustainability Focus: Initiatives that support cider makers, orchardist/farmers and sustainability were central to ACA’s strategy.
What’s Next for Michelle
Michelle will be transitioning to Salmon Safe as Columbia Basin Program Director. This nonprofit focuses on land use practices that protect watershed health and salmon populations. Her passion for collaboration and supporting farmers continues to guide her work.
Up Coming Highlights for CiderCon 2025
Chilean cider tastings and sessions on the country’s apple heritage.
A session on soil health by Ashley Lindsay, a pomological expert from Oregon State University.
Tastings featuring Porter’s Perfection cider and quince cider varieties.
Networking opportunities and workshops for cider makers worldwide.
A Call to Action for the Cider Community
Michelle encourages more diversity and representation in cider leadership roles, especially for women. She invites anyone interested in joining the ACA board or participating in industry initiatives to step forward and work with the board of directors.
CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat
#xpromoteCider – Tips of the glass to the following brands! Do follow them on instagram!
376: Orchard & Cider Variety Research at WHNO | Vermont
01:01:26
Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard (WHNO) was created in 1997
This 22 acre farm with 8 acres of orchards on a hillside outside of Hardwick, Vermont in the town of Walden was founded by Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak. It is a sustainably managed and certified organic fruit orchard and nursery. In this chat, we speak with both founders as they share the history and current educational offerings at WHNO.
Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak (w/ frozen jug of apple juice) at WHNO
We also discuss how WHNO was awarded a SARE (Sustainable Agricultural Research and Educational Project) grant to study: The evaluations of apple cultivars for hard cider production in the Northeast. The goal of the project as Todd Parlo states it, is “To increase the pool of possibilities for a cider maker. And to get numbers on the constituents of juices of a variety of apple cultivars."
313 apple varieties from WHNO were tested during this project.
Todd in the Walden orchard
The study was completed and as of 2023 the results of the study can be reviewed via this link online.
Walk about the orchard with both Todd and Lori at WHNO and hear about just a few of the 600 apples varieties grown here.
Barrel aging cider is as old as time. Considering that, one would think that it should be pretty straight forward to pour fresh pressed apple juice into a barrel and create a delicious end product. Right? Wrong!
Barrels require preparation and maintenance to make sure that the end product is well balanced. In essence, you are not only managing the cider, but the wood too since both are alive with microorganisms.
In this chat we delve into reusing a barrel that was originally charred, then had whiskey added. Brooklyn Distillery the orginaial owner of the 25 gallon barrel sold it to Exhibit A Brewing Company. Matt Steinberg owner and brewer of Exhibit A put an Imperial Stout in the barrel.
I purchased the empty barrel from Matt for cider and share with you my long weekend of discovery on preparing the barrel for cider.
The goal is to keep the wood staves moist and swollen so once the cider is added it doesn't leak. In addition, funky bacterias like acetobacter and wild yeasts must be kept out so your barrel doesn't begin to smell like vinegar.
But How to Set up and Prepare a Used Barrel for Cider?
First a warning everyone should heed: If your barrel had spirits avoid using a sulfur stick as it can inflame the residual spirits and make that barrel explosive.
Some say add citric acid and SO2.
Matt said to rinse the barrel with warm water, empty it, and then wrap in in plastic wrap. I figured this would become an even more inviting environment for those funky bacterias that can really messed up your cider.
I decided to add water and SO2.
Fingers crossed, as I will be getting back to how the barrel rolls in follow up episodes of Cider Chat.
Cool words and Vocabulary you should know
Amphora - clay vessels used to hold wine. Made by potters and used by the Egyptions and Romans
Kveri - a larger version of the amphora that was placed in the ground and used to make wine. Listen to episode 011-Geoff Richardson | Castle Hill Cider, Virginia Castle Hill makes cider in their onsite Kveris! Too Cool!!!
Vinny Nail - Vinny Cilurzo of Russian River Brewing Company is the man behind the nail that brewers put into a barrel and use it to take samples.
Mentions in this chat!
Eve's Cidery special August deal for Cider Chat listeners
Haven't downloaded this chat yet? Here is is again.
04 Apr 2018
122: Cider Behind the Scene in Normandy, France
00:55:47
Find this episode with photos and show notes and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.
Cider enthusiast Michel Dargent hosted Ria at his home in September 2017. Monsieur Dargent is a cider aficionado, making the two night stay at his gîte (bed & breakfast) the perfect stop on Ria’s cider tour of Normandy.
Listen in on this intimate conversation as we discuss the ancient pear trees in the Domfront region, blood sausage and a very special cidermaker.
Monsieur Dargent made the evening dinner with all local products from a nearby farm and served each dish with a cider (cidre) and perry (poiré).
Régis Angot, the maker, will be one of the stops on the upcoming Totally Cider Tour to Normandy September 23 -29, 2018. Click here to for reservations.
Dan Schreffler had been home brewing and fermenting for many years before opening Spacetime Mead & Cider Works in 2018. He is a self proclaimed science nerd, which is part of the reason why he went with the name "Spacetime" (listen to the full story behind his fantastic branding in this episode).
After beating a cancer diagnosis in 2010, he began wondering what the new 2.0 model of Dan would be moving forward. He said there are 2 side effects from cancer. Patience and Perspective. He and his wife took a cross country trip and made many stops along the libations trail across the US and saw the happiness in people’s eye who were making mead and said to himself,
“I can do this!”
A bit of Mead, Wine and Cider at Spacetime
Spacetime is located right on the main drag going through the town of Dunmore, Pennsylvania. It is a lovely shop that has an amazing amount of Cider, Mead and Wine available on site. You can place an order ahead for pick up or have the product shipped to your door. The branding at Spacetime Mead and Ciderworks is spot on! There are cardboard cut outs of a bee and an astrounaut just cuz that is fun! The countertop for check out is made out of an old solar panel. Buy a horn to drink your mead out of or grab some tasty local cheese to pair with your to-go bottles. The 14x14 foot space is inviting and fun to peruse. The location is so easy to get to off of the highway that it would be a shame not to stop in for a selfie next to the astronaunt. But I digress, because it is really all about the what is in the bottles that count.
Dan pouring Earthbound Pear. Note the Astronaut in the left corner.
Expect Dry Meads, Wine and Cider at Spacetime
The Earthbound Pear made out of local culinary pears is delicious and the 2020 bottle won a Bronze Medal at GLINTCAP in 2021. Dan bottles this still "pear cider" in aluminum bottles. Note that this is a still and if he had canned the Earthbound the lack of bubbles would have made the can squishy so in the bottle it went making for a fun presentation of a very tasty libation!
Chaotic Good - a 2020 Pumpkin spiced cider (semi dry) featuring Northeastern Pennsylvania grown and fresh pressed apples 6.4% alcohol by volume (ABV) packaged in 750ml bottles
Gravityis a Dry Cyser - honey apple wine made with apples from the local Ritters Cider Mill, local wildflower honey and some oak aging 13.7% ABV in 750ml bottles
Lawful Good - Semi Dry Cider Apples from Pecora Farms in Sugarloaf PA. 2021 Bronze Great American Cider Competition. 6.3% ABV in 750ml bottles
Apple-O Mission 1 - Semi Dry Made from a fresh press of 9 NY state cider apples. Coarse filtered (6.4%) ABV 750ml bottles
Learn how to Make Mead
Get a Spacetime Mead horn to go! Notice more space branding in the background
In this episode Dan explains how to make mead. If you are vacationing in the area, or on a work trip or are lucky enough to live close by why not sign up and learn how to make Mead from Dan himself! This mead making experience includes:
• Mead Making 101 • Mead Making Demonstration • Mead & Honey Tasting • Certificate Topics • What is Mead • Equipment Needs • Recipe Formulation • Fermentation • Stabilization • Clarification • Bottling • Enjoying
What I love about Spacetime Mead and Cider Works is that there is something for every drink fan. Yes, there is even select beers to go and delicious local cheeses that Dan curated specifically for his products and YOU!
S. Martinelli & Company was founded by Stephen Martinelli in 1868.
The company is located, as it has always been, for the last 150 years in Watsonville, California.
The first cider made by Stephen was a 7.5% alcohol by volume sparkling cider.
This chat is with Stephen John Martinelli, the great grandson of the Founder and the current CEO and General Manager of this family owned business.
John’s first job as a teen was to clean the 125 gallon redwood fermenting tanks that were used at Martinelli’s to ferment apples juice to cider. You can still see the slats from the old tank today at the Company Store, where they flank the tasting bar.
In this chat, we discuss Martinelli’s new product “1868” which came out in August of 2018 to commemorate the 150th year. 1868 is a 5.7% cider that Martinelli is currently contracting with the Gordon Biersch brewing company to ferment.
The bulk of the apples are sourced from the Pacific Northwest.
1868 has the signature Martinelli juice profile, with a Newtown Pippin apple presence.
It is sold in 12 ounce bottles in 12-packs.
Costcos in California and the two Safeway stores in Santa Cruz are the only location currently selling this product. The 1868 is selling fast, as Martinelli loyalist buy sometimes up to 2-4 12-packs at a time.
Listen to and see the wordplayed by Hip Hop Artist Andy Mineo called: Martinelli's
September 22-28, 2019 - Normandy France - Reservation will begin in late January
Interested in these tours? Sign up for the eCiderNews and receive updates on tours.
February 4th-8th, 2019 CiderConThe United States Association of Cider Makers annual Trade Conference will be held in Chicago. Find out more and reserve today. Volunteer for CiderCon and have your registration fee waivered! Contact : Woodley email - pickcider@ciderassociation.org
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Killahora Orchards of County Cork is located on the southern tip of the Emerald Isle a.k.a. Ireland and was once the center of the world butter market. Historically it is also known as the “rebel city”. Today it is a thriving city with Michelin star restaurants and makers like Barry Walsh and Dave Watson of Killahora Orchards in Glounthaune.
Killahora Orchards began to be replanted in 2011.
Replanted because Killahora Orchards today, it was found, was also an orchard dating back as far as 1838. This was discovered on Ireland’s OS (Ordinance Survey) Maps. As such there are wilding apple trees on the fence line linked to the Malus sylvestris (this apple tree usually has thorns).
Barn on the hill at Killahora Orchards
In 2016 Killahora entered the commercial market as Johnny Fall Down cider, but as the brand evolves they are now making Johnny Fall Down a brand of cider under the Killahora Orchards label.
There are 130 varieties of apples and 30 different pears.
Dave Watson planted the orchard. His father Tim Watson tends it. Barry Walsh is Dave’s cousin. Barry is crowned the Booze Geek, while Dave is considered the Tree Geek.
Killahora Orchards Products
The Wild Apple Bouché won the Supreme International Championship for International Ciders at the Royal Bath and West cider competition in June 2018.
The Rare Apple Ice Wine which was made with Bitter Sweet and Bitter Sharp apples really set this Irish version of an ice cider apart.
Rare Apple Ice Wine made with bitter sweet and bitter sharp apples[/caption]
Pom'O is and Apple Port or what the French would call Pommeau.
At the end of this chat hear Barry Walsh sing a wee bit from the Irish Folk Drinking Song "Johnny Jump Up". Learn more about its history here.
Adam Levey aka The Alcohol Professor has now launched the www.nyicidercompetition.com which is the natural spinoff off the www.nyibeercompetition.com so cider winners will receive cider medals. Wanna enter two competitions? Commercial makers can send in their samples to the New Jersery receiving station, then the competition will ship their ciders for no extra cost to the Berlin Germany competition too. Go the link above to find more info.
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
084: The Elements of Cider | Sensory Analysis w/Charles McGonegal
00:30:42
Charles McGonegal has been teaches a workshop on Sensory Analysis for cider judges, makers, enthusiasts and at both CiderCon (the United States Association o Cider Makers annual conference) and GLINTCAP (Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition.
Charles calls this workshop The Element of Cider.
It provides a vocabulary check or what he considers the basics of cider from the sensory and the chemical perspectives.
He had 10 flights at the Chicago CiderCon - where he changed just one thing in each glass of cider. He is asking people to define the taste of the cider.
Enjoy this chat and if you like this chat and I expect you will!
Listen to the previous episode #83 with Charles as he discusses both his cidery, AEppelTreow in Wisconsin and making perry!
Enter the Giveaway for 2 tickets to Cider Circus August 26, 2017at Copper Mountain Ski Resort in Colorado http://cidercircus.com/ Enter by subscribing to eCiderNews and be automatically entered or become a Patron of Cider Chat and be entered automatically to all Cider Chat contests and giveaways.
Ask for the following 7 #CiderGoingUP Campaign cider supporters - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Ciderville.
Lees: When should we love them and when should we leave them? And what the heck is “lees” anyways?
The main chat in this episode begins around 10 minutes in and features Curt Sherrer presenting his workshop titled “All Lees Are Not Gross”. This was recorded at the 24th Annual Franklin County CiderDays in November of 2018.
Why rack off the lees?
Curt proposes that there are more advantages for aging the cider on the lees then removing the lees.
Sur Lie is leaving the lees in the vessel that you are conditioning the cider in is called:
What to expect from barrel aging and leaving the cider on the lees is the smell of H2S which smells like rotten eggs.
Curt recommends:
Using your nose and taste buds to keep track of what is going on when leaving the aging cider on the lees.
Taste every part of the fermentation
Instead of automatically dumping your lees our of the bottle - save your lees
add to your next cider
cook with the lees
make bread with lees
The process for either barrel or carboy:
After the rigours fermentation, stir lees for usually the next 6 weeks - sometimes 3 times per week. This technique is called Bâtonnage.
Use your nose and taste buds to decider upon the schedule best suited for your cider. Perhaps you will stir more often or not.
Lees can rest upon the bottom of your vessel for up to year for further.
This presentation will “lees” you with lots of food for thought and decisions to make for you own cider. Not a cider maker? - then seek out maker who do produce cider sur lie and see if you like this more wine like production.
I do and as such post this taping I began my own oak barrel sur lie cider.
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Elizabeth Ryan a Hudson Valley resident and owner of six historic farms, three of which are orchards.
Gregory Peck PhD is a renowned pomologist and professor at Cornell University.
Ian Merwin PhD is a lifetime farmer and cider maker who has been growing apples and making cider since 1985.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. The historic proliferation of apple varieties in North America and the influence of indigenous communities on the Hudson Valley's apple industry.
2. The remarkable trade of Newtown Pippins from the Hudson Valley in the 18th and 19th centuries, and the wealth it brought to the region.
3. The revival of historic apple varieties in the Hudson Valley, such as Esopus Spitzenburg, Jonathan, and Northern Spy, and the unique characteristics of each.
Time Stamps to zone into this episode
[00:11:59]
Feature presentation on The History, Pomage and Terroir of New York's Ciders featuring 3 premier apples:
Newtown Pippin
Northern Spy
Esopus Spitzenberg
Mentions in this Chat
Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers.
Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
Mary Bigham Owner and Publisher of Dishworks LLC, founded Cider Culture in 2014 which is an online publication that has weekly cider news post for newbie cider fans to commercial makers. Mary is a Pennsylvanian who also happens to live in the largest apple growing region of the state, Adams County. Cider Culture is her passion project and having recently partnered with the American Cider Association (ACA), a US based trade organization, all proceeds once bills are paid go directly to the ACA.
[caption id="attachment_6369" align="aligncenter" width="224"] Mary Bigham
Emily Kovach is the Editor of Cider Culture and also has been living in Pennsylvania since 2004. Along with her work as editor she is also the co-owner of Lunar Inn and Tiny Bottle Shop in Philadelphia.
Cleaning considerations for 3 different cider operations - DYI, Farm Winery and Production with Stormalong Cider.
(l-r) Ben Roberts-Sano, Bright McConnell, Shannon Edgar
DIY - Home Cidermaking
It is soak and scrub for the DIYers.
Soak
carboys
parts
nylon bags
airlocks
all threaded parts
Rinse with copious amounts of water thoroughly and sanitize. Boil with hot water, if possible.
Drainage and setup are a major consideration
Due to the common lack of pumps/ floor drains.
Effluent should not affect your septic, if you brew a batch or 2 per year.
Biggest maker hang ups
Using low quality materials which can't stand the cleaning
Not scrubbing enough
Not disassembling/boiling threaded or other non sanitary parts
Farm winery set up
Have some sort of floor drain, and some sort of pump capable of driving a spray ball.
Rinse by pumping into a spray ball
Drain to floor when rinsing tanks
Always pump the water from a fully clean and neutralized tank, to the tank being cleaned
Spray gross soils in the tanks out before starting to clean
Tanks must be vented during cleaning, and all parts should be removed. Any areas under manways or probes that might obstruct the spray must manually be scrubbed.
Take off and clean manway gaskets, and ensure sight lines are cleaned
Clean and sanitize throughly racking arms and carb stones for best results
Biggest hangups for Farm Winery
Not Enough hot water
Not having adequate drainage and wastewater handling
Some small cideries with no wastewater handling will skip all of this in lieu of a steam or hot water pressure washer. They spray the tanks to remove soils, then partially close them up and allow the metal to reach 170-180 degrees to sanitize, then purge out any air with nitrogen argon or CO2.
Commercial scale Set Up
Automation and verification, regular inspection and replacement of parts
Rubber parts and hoses that become cracked can no longer be adequately cleaned and must be thrown out. Even steel parts can become too scratched to be cleaned properly.
Chemicals are tested for potency to determine if they are depleted by cleaning, and to insure adequate rinsing
The inside of the tank may be tested for microbial action by plating or ATP test
Commercial Plants at this scale invest in better
Jet or rotating spray balls
Dedicated cleaning tanks / pumps, caustic recovery, re heat, and re use
More, and hotter water for cleaning
To sanitize commercial cider makers may use plant steam/ PAA with a dosatron or CLO2 to kill remaining microbes
In June 25, 2016 it reopened, after a bit of new construction, as the Musée du Poiré.
In this chat we discuss the Route du Poiré which can be followed along in this region of Normandy and trying to find the Musée du Poiré.
This adventure began when The Nose and I having only one day left in France, after our chat with Eric Bordelet, decided to head in the opposite direction of where we needed to go, so that we could visit the museum on all things Perry or Poiré, as it is said in French.
The museum has ample parking and is Free and open from April 1st to October 15th - Do double check as these dates might change.
It is closed on May 1st
Set up a guided tour for the minimal fee of 2.50 (euros)
The museum breaks down the historical path of apples and pears.
The information plaques along the accessible path into the orchard begin with the time when Dinosaurs became extinct around 40-60 million years ago
It was then that the first form of wild apples and pears began to grow in the forests of Kazakhstan - around 20,000 BC.....then,
Paleolithic times 300,000 -BC - 6000 BC - "the first fruit seduced the first nomads"
Neolithic 6000 - 2200 BC Persians transplanted and planted orchards
Antiquity 3000 BC - 5th century - This is the time of the Silk Road and the beginning of major trade routes.
The Romans are noted as being responsible for the apples arrival in what we know as Spain and then France and of course the UK
Middle Ages 5th century to 15th century - Apples are becoming identified and named by pomologists and they are also traveling out into the new worlds.
According to the museum it says that Apples can be traced back to 45 million years. Whereas with pears their history is a bit more of a mystery!
Fun tidbits found at the museum:
For a Perry to be worthy of the Domfront Designation the "must" needs to stay in the tanks for 6 weeks to guarantee well-developed aromas.
Cider and Perry was poured directly from the barrels during meals either into a pitcher, a ewer, or a jug.
At the start of each year the cider and perry was considered to be tasting mild and as each month passed the cider and perry would become stronger as fermentation continued on until the yeast settled down typically in Spring.
Cider and Perry were primarily consumed in place and thus they were not bottled.
Stablizing the bottle pressure has always been a concerned and it is not until the 1950s that bottling became more widespread, and thus helped cider and perry to be marketed more broadly.
Initial fermentation takes place in the barrel. The second fermentation takes place once the cider or perry is bottled and the presence of yeast, often wild yeast as is typical of France products occurs over a 2-4 month period at the temperature of 10C or 50 degrees F and at this next stage the cider and perry becomes sparkling.
Where does the word crab apple come from? Likely from the Old English word Crabbe meaning sour, bitter. Real name is Malus Sylvestris (forest apple)
They separate the pears as dessert pears, perry pears and culinary pears which are to be enjoyed on toast or sandwiches!
"Gadage" - the name of the crusher used to crush apples and pears. Imagine a large round granite on a pole that is rolled around in a vat of apples by a horse. Look at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel to see The Nose moving the Gadage! and all the other videos associated with this chat!
Need a place to stay near the museum or while on the Route du Poiré
Check in to the La Bouissonniere Gite follow them on Twitter @gemofagite
Ask for the following 4 #CiderGoingUP Campaign cider supporters when you next go out to purchase your cider or perry!- By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Ciderville.
Northern Spy is a short story that weaves the tale of the early grafting of the apple known as the Northern Spy, Quaker values, and the Underground Railroad. Read and written by Ryan Monkman, for the new Cider Chat segment titled "Stories in Ciderville".
For additional reading and inspiration look to the children's book An Apple for Harriet Tubman.
Northern Spy
by Ryan Monkman
About 200 years ago, somewhere in Upstate New York, a boy ran through the woods. He hid in a bush under a tree. Then, when no one found him, he stood up and grabbed an apple above him. He bit the apple then spat it out. It was horribly acidic.
The boy ran back to town and convinced a friend to take a bite of the “wonderful” apple. Soon it was a game: try the apple, spit it out.
But the boy’s father liked the acid. The two of them walked back to the forest and picked the tree clean. They put the apples in bins then put those bins in their root cellar. Everyday the father would have an apple with breakfast. Everyday the son would try to sucker a new friend.
After a few weeks in storage, the apples grew sweet. The father didn’t like them anymore and the son’s game grew boring. So the crates sat, untouched and unloved, next to the potatoes.
The boy’s mother found the apples in mid Spring. Somehow they still looked and tasted like apples after months underground. She took them to a church picnic.
There’s a tradition in Quaker communities; speak boldly when the Spirit calls you to. A neighbor spoke and the town listened. That summer they propagated the wild apple.
If you plant an apple seed, you’ll get an apple tree but the fruit will be different. With each generation the seeds morph and mutate. The apple changes. If you want to preserve the beauty of a varietal, you have to take a cutting of the original tree and plant the cutting. That’s what the town did.
They sent a team into the woods to collect small clippings of the wild tree. Each cut was only two inches long. Those cuttings were then slipped into a piece of root from another tree then the two were planted together. The bottom half rooted in the ground, the top half bearing identical fruit to the wild tree.
The grafted trees were divided throughout the town. Each family grew a handful of trees and the church planted an orchard. Eight years past. Then one day in May the town awoke to a bursting of pink flowers.
That Summer they saw their first fruit. That Fall they picked their first apples. The boy, now a man, loaded up a wagon and headed South. Then another wagon followed. And another. That Winter the town was empty.
The wagons would pull into a new town. The driver asked for the Station Master, dropped off a whack of apples, then left without another word. In each town the pattern repeated. When the wagon was empty the driver returned home, refilled, then hit the road again. By February the town was out of apples.
Traffic on the Underground Railroad surged that Spring. One of the first tastes of freedom was a piece of fruit that never seemed to rot.
Cloaked in secrecy, the apple earned a nickname; the Northern Spy.
by Ryan Monkman
Ryan lives in Prince Edward County, Ontario making and selling cider with his family and cider team at FieldBird Cider.
___________
Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?
Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to ria@ciderchat.com
08 Mar 2017
071: Jeppe Gents | Fejø Cider, Denmark
00:57:15
Jeppe Gents opened Fejø Cider in 1999. He calls himself a "cider farmer" having founded his cidery on an island 200 kilometers south of Copenhagen. You can take a 15-minute ride on a ferry to the island and visit this celebrated cidery.
Fejø is an orchard based cidery with 18 hectares or approximately 44 acres of bitter, bittersweet, culinary apples. With nearly 20 years of cidermaking knowledge Fejø cidery is established well enough that it is now Jeppe's full time work.
The cidery has won numerous awards and is currently exporting 60% of its products to such markets as Sweden, Germany, and now the US via the Shelton Brothers Importers.
The first two pallets of cider were shipped to the Shelton Brothers in November 2016. They were ordered for Claus Meyer, the Danish gastro-entrepreneur. Meyer opened the Agern restaurant plus The Great Northern Food Hall in New York Grand Central Terminal. The Agern restaurant has got its first Michelin star now only one year after its opening, and the Food Hall has 3500 daily customers.
Currently, Fejø Cider is producing 30,000 bottles of cider per year. Only cider apples grown at the orchard are used. Jeppe uses only the natural yeast and does not chaptalize his ciders. Expect a bottle conditioned cider with soft delicate bubbles that waft up from the bottom of the glass with a rich apple aroma.
The apples are collected by hand, stored for two weeks and they use a blend of
30% bitter
30% bittersweet
30% sweet
10% acid
He attributes the low nutrient juice from his apples to providing a slow fermentation and offering the sweet profile of his ciders.
Interested in an Apprenticeship atFejø Cider?
Contact Jeppe below as he takes apprentices from the 1st of September to the 1 of December every year.
346: Gnarly Pippins on Why Pomological Exhibits Matter
00:58:25
What is a pomological exhibition?
Orchardist Matt Kaminsky has hosted a Pomological Exhibition in Ashfield, Massachusetts for the past 3 years. In this talk recorded at the Cider Pop-UP as part of CiderDays 2.0 events on the weekend of November 4th-6th Matt talks about the history of Pomological Societies and why such exhibitions are so important.
How healthy are these wild apple trees?
In this talk Matt nods to the impact of global warming and climate change
What is causing more economic harm to apple growers
What species of apple trees can now be grown here and the spread of invasive insects?
At the Pomological Exhibition
Had 150 wild apples and pears on exhibit
Throughout the US and Canadian apples too.
Few repeat entries at this Public Tasting. The public was able to cast a vote in 5 different categories
417: Bittersweet Goodbye: The Closure of the New England Apple Association
00:49:38
Celebrating an Agricultural Legacy and the New England Apple Association
The New England Apple Association (NEAA), a venerable institution supporting apple growers across the New England states, will be closing its doors at the end of this fiscal year on June 30, 2024. This announcement, delivered by the NEAA's Executive Director, Russell Steven Powell, marks the end of an 89-year legacy dedicated to promoting and supporting the region’s apple industry. Hear Powell on Episode 245 present Apples of New England to the Amherst Historical society: a companion YouTube video of this informative presentation
The History of New England Apple Association
The NEAA, originally established in 1935 as the New York and New England Apple Institute, has played a pivotal role in the apple industry. The organization has evolved through the decades, reflecting changes in the industry and market dynamics. It became the Northeast Macintosh Growers Association in 1993 after New York established its own marketing organization and was eventually renamed the New England Apple Association.
Contributions and Challenges
Under the leadership of Russell Steven Powell, who has served as the Executive Director since 1997, the NEAA has been instrumental in various advocacy efforts, marketing campaigns, and educational initiatives aimed at supporting New England apple growers. Powell, an author of two acclaimed books on apples, “America’s Apple” and “Apples of New England,” has been a prominent figure in the organization, driving its mission forward.
Russell Stevens Powell
Despite its contributions, the NEAA has faced significant challenges in recent years. Changes in the New England apple industry, a shift from wholesale markets to retail orchards, and the rise of diversified attractions such as pick-your-own, bakeries, and tasting rooms have impacted the organization's traditional business model. This shift, while beneficial for many orchards, appears to have presented a challenge for the NEAA, ultimately leading to the decision to close.
The Impact and Future of Apples in New England
The closure of the NEAA is a significant loss for the New England apple community. The association has been a valuable resource for apple growers and enthusiasts, providing information on apple varieties, orchard locations, and industry developments. The NEAA's contributions to the agricultural heritage of New England will be remembered fondly.
As we reflect on this bittersweet moment, it is crucial to acknowledge the dedication and hard work of individuals like Russell Stevens Powell and the many volunteers who have supported the NEAA over the years. Their efforts have left an indelible mark on the apple industry in New England.
Supporting Local Agriculture
The closure of the NEAA underscores the importance of supporting local agricultural organizations and initiatives. As Al Sax, who joins Cider Chat Host Ria Windcaller in this episode and is a lifelong champion of apple cider making and education, highlights in this episode, the sustainability of local agriculture depends on active participation and support from the community. Organizations like the American Cider Association, state-level cider guilds, and other regional agricultural groups play a vital role in promoting and preserving our agricultural heritage.
Vote With Your Dollars
Al discussed how he makes his money count by, "voting with your dollars." This philosophy underscores the importance of using our financial choices to support the organizations and causes we believe in. By purchasing memberships, donating, and buying products from local orchards and agricultural associations, we can directly impact their sustainability and success. Al practices what he preaches, supporting CiderChat and other agricultural initiatives that align with his passion for apples and cider. His commitment serves as a reminder that our spending habits can make a meaningful difference in preserving and promoting the agricultural heritage and local businesses we cherish.
Contact Emails for the New England Apple Association
Cider pairs well with food, especially Ethiopian dishes that have spicy overtones.
In this chat, Phillip Kelm and I were both attending CiderCon2018 in Baltimore thus the opportunity to dine at Ebenezer’s Ethiopian Restaurant and chat cider.
This restaurant was chosen because it offered a Bring Your Own Bottle (BYOB) option. I wanted to be able to try Phillip’s bottle of Entropy while dining.
Phillip begins with a pour of the “wild ferment” Entrophy.
We delve into his early beginnings in fermentation science... He started fermenting when he was 16 saying, “I couldn’t buy beer, but could buy a beer kit.” .. something that Phillip learned in Mother Earth News.
He became a mechanical engineer and first worked in the nuclear industry before moving onto brewing.
For most of his career he has been setting up brewing systems around the world via his business Gitche Gumee Brewing Services, a worldwide brewery installation & engineering business.
He also managesthePalau Brewing Company, home of Red Rooster Beers. Currently he is working on a cidery in India and is a partner at the South Korean cidery, The Hand and Apple.
Our dinner was primarily focused around his cidery based in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula called Gitche Gumee Ciderworks, where he makes what he called “feral ciders”.
Apples used at Gitche Gumee
Foragers bring the apples to the cidery and Phillip in turns produces cider.
He pays .20/pound of apples. They are collecting apples by the ton.
Says Phillip, “There is no [apple] pedigree - they are wild chance seedlings.”
Cidermaking technique used for the Entropy
no sulfites
no water
no yeast
no sugar
Using French oak barrels.
The cider is left to do its own thing in the right environment.
Additional cider making notes
Select only the best fruit
Only the best skin
No maceration
Rack over the lees
By February the cider is out of stainless after it has been racked off the lees at least 2 times already
Leave the yeast behind to starve.
Managing Wild Fermentation
Make sure that the fruit is “solid and ripe”
Apples are matured for at least a few days or a week
Look for Cascadilla Falls (20’) within walking distance of downtown Ithaca
In this chat we begin with the origins of the Finger Lakes from Kendall Blizzard the Agriculinary Tourism Marketing Coordinator at Ithaca/Tompkins County Convention & Visitor's Bureaus .
Kendall and I rode about all week long taking in this magnificent cider region and I thank her for her steady driving and good cheer.
Then we meet Beth Duff, Visitor Experience Specialist at Taughannock Falls (215’ tall - taller than Niagara Falls).
Our final chat is with Deborah Cooper aDigital and Special Collections LibrarianCoordinator of Library Services to Cornell AgriTech, Geneva NY at theAlbert R. Mann Library, Cornell University
Here are some essential URLS for cider at Mann Library:
Biodiversity Heritage Library collection: Pomology: Apples and Cider
Yes, Maryland's Got Pommes and there is going to be some big time cider fun at CiderCon2018 in Baltimore! January 31- February 2, 2018.
But first a reminder on: The $900 Price Drop for the Totally Cider Tour to the UK in April 25 - May 2, 2018. Join Ria and other awesome cider friends on this tour of a life time. Go to https://form.jotform.com/73186243884970 and register now!
And overview of Maryland's Pomme History
Pear Pear chats "Perryville, Maryland" established 1620 and the origin of the surname Perry. PerryPear believes that it comes from the Middle English word 'perrie' which means pear tree.
And did you know that there is a town called Hereford, Maryland to the north west of Baltimore?
Lord Baltimore aka Cecil Calvert is referenced in Raphael Semmes book "Crimes and Punishment of Maryland" he told colonist coming to bring: kernels of apples and pears….
Who is attending CiderCon?
The following cider folk are just a few of the awesome people attending
BWI to Marriott Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport
12- before 1
6 min walk to the BWI Airport LT Rail
28 min ride - 11 stops.
Get off at Pratt St Light Rail station
walk 1 minute to Howard STreet
And take a Bus on the OrangeLine to Harbor East.
this is an 8 minutes route with 6 stops until you reach the section of Baltimore called Little Italy. Get off and walk throughout Little Italy for 4 minutes to the hotel.
February 11, 2018 - New York International Beer Competition (NYIBC) is accepting cider entries NOW! NYIBC is using the United States Association of Cider Makers new cider categories for this competition. The judges at this competition are in the trade of buying and selling cider and thus judge the cider on the merits of taste and price point.
Ask for the following 9#ciderGoingUP Campaignsponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat
008: Cider Team | Les Vergers de la Colline, Quebec
00:46:23
Les Vergers de la Colline, Quebec Now Cidrerie Milton
This epsiode was recorded in person with the team at that time of this Quebec based cidery.
Note: The name of this cidery has changed since the time of this recording. This was in part due to the the difficulty of pronouncing Les Vergers de la Colline. So the owners took on the town name and shorten it all to Ciderie Milton!
I, Ria, had the pleasure of interviewing four guys from Quebec who are passionate about cider making. Quebec is a french speaking province so were quite kind in helping each other and helping me understand what they are making at Les Vergers de la Colline. I know you will enjoy this Cider Chat!
Cider making Team Les Vergers de la Colline of Quebec Canada
Les Vergers de la Colline opened in 2003 and is now called Ciderie Milton
Ciderie Milton’s team
The team is headed by Marc -Antoine Lasnier, whose family owns this Quebec cidery. Marc’s family has been growing apples since 1926. They made cider during the Canada’s prohibition and it should be noted that in 1920 beer, wine, beer and all alcohol was legal. Only cider was prohibited. Not until the early 1970’s did cider become legal.
Marc -Antoine Lasner
You can listen to the story behind the prohibition of cider as Marc tells it.
Les Vergers de la Colline produces ciders that range all the way up to 11%. Below is a photo of the ice cider that we drank during this chat and discussed.
Celebrate with The Nose and I, as we chat on our fall trip to see cidermakers in the Netherlands and France and reflect over an amazing year of 52 podcasts promoting cider and perry around the world.
I've posted "semi" exact times within this episode for mini clips from specific episodes, so you can scroll forward for specific chat mentions.
AND....If you've enjoyed this episode, please Help Support Cider Chat's (Ria's) trip to the International Hall of Gala Ciders. I have a bunch of amazing chat's coming up for I am sure I won't have this trip paid off for a while and every little bit counts. Please donate today.
Social Media company mentioned in this chat
We Are Pr- helping small business manage social media
Haven't downloaded this chat yet? Here is is again.
10 May 2023
368: Who named this apple Northern Spy?
00:51:30
Spy Novels Step Aside for an Apple of a Tale
The Northern Spy is a delightful apple used both for baking and cidermaking! At one time it was a major export commodity due to its lack of bruising when packed in barrels. As far as apples go it is a winner for so many reasons, yet no one knows why it is named Northern Spy. there are certainly many hyposthesis on the subject. In episode 226: Northern Spy and the Underground Railroad Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider reads a fictional essay on the topic (do listen as it is grand).
Kerry Anne Wilkins
In this episode we hear from Apple Sleuth or self proclaimed "Malus Absurdum" Kerry Anne Wilkins who is on the trail of the Northern Spy. Professionally Kerry works as a hospice nurse, but her love of apples and set her on a journey to find the story behind the naming of the Northern Spy.
Herman Chapin is responsible for propagating the Northern Spy
In this Chat
Meeting the John Bunkers, a premier Apple Detective
What we know so far about the Northern Spy's history
Apple Sleuthing tips
Libraries
Oral History
Newspaper
Cemeteries
Land maps
Tracking the Northern Spy to East Bloomfield, New York
A Martha Steward faux pas that needed to be corrected
The Northern Spy marker in East Bloomfield
Herman Chapin and the Chapin family connection to the Northern Spy
] East Bloomfield road marker reads:
The original Northern Spy Apple Tree Stood about 14 Rods south of this spot in a seedling orchard. Planted by Herman Chapin about 1800 The Early Joe and Melon Apple also originated in this orchard.
The quest continues
Kerry is still on the quest to discover the history of the Northern Spy and hopefully the reason why this apple was named as such. If you have info please send it along her way. Recipes, book mentions, oral tales are all welcomed.
Who is John Bunker America's Apple Detective? There are many episodes with John feature. Begin with this one https://ciderchat.com/028-john-bunker-apple-identification/ and then google Cider Chat John Bunker for more from this American treasure of a man!
Bottles on My Desk - Listen to the latest episode at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel via playlist "bottles on my desk"
06 Jun 2018
131: Cider Barrels with a Cooper, a Maker & Thierry Lemaire
01:21:16
Cider Barrel Maintenance
The craft of making an oak barrel is called “cooperage” and the person who applies this craft is called a “cooper”. The skills of this trade have been passed down through the centuries. The tree and the wood chosen to become a barrel has to meet specific criteria, such as having a tight grain and flavor profiles that lend the tannin qualities often sought in a cider barrel.
From the classic wide belly barrels to oval shaped vessels, the shape of wooden barrels have changed very little over time. Quality control over the wood used and the intricacies of heat, stave bending, and maintenance of cider barrels continues to evolve.
This episode 131 was recorded in Saint Catharine, Ontario during a dinner chat with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Thierry Lemaire of Nuance Winery Supplies and Louis of Radoux, a cooperage based in Santa Rosa California and France.
All three men have extensive knowledge on barrel use with wine. As the cider market continues to grow and both the consumer’s and cidermakers interest in ciders fermented or stored in oak increases, barrel maintenance is undoubtedly a hot topic and a key market for these specialist in the art of oak barrel cooperage and fermentation.
As we enjoy a bottle of Ryan’s FieldBird cider over dinner the four of us discuss oak barrel selection and maintenance, which in short narrows down to the broader topic of Barrel Skills. Whereas the wine industry has been working with oak barrels for centuries, cidermakers particularly in the US and Canada, are only now gaining speed with cider post Prohibition.
Key topics in this chat:
Finding the right oak barrel for your cider
Barrel Maintenance:
Cleaning a barrel
Storing a barrel
- wet or dry storage
- burning a sulfur disk
Leaky barrels - mechanical (cooperage) or maker mismanagement?
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Like all episodes I like to begin with “News Out and About in Ciderville” reminding you to sign up now for the 2nd Annual New England Cider Tour rolling out of Greenfield Massachusetts on October 31, 2019. This cider tour helps kick off the 25th Annual Franklin County CiderDays on November 1-3, 2019.
Then two emails from Patrons of Cider Chat. Travis from Wisconsin and Jamie from Washington.
Featured in 193
Elizabeth Pimblett is the Cider Director at the Cider Museum in Herefordshire The museum was started in 1972 by Burchon Bulmer and Henry Weston of Weston, and Professor Hudson from the Long Ashton Research Station. The goal to capture the story of ciders at the time.
Elizabeth Pimblett of the Herefordshire Cider Museum
The museum opened in 1982. Elizabeth is from Herefordshire so taking on this job was a perfect fit for her. But what really inspired her was the art history already at the museum.
What is a cider flute?
A glass used to drink cider. Think a fluted glass classically used to drink champagne. The early flutes were very large.
Next up is a chat with Dick Witcombe of Manchester, England. He and wife Cath Potter are cider enthusiasts who twitter accounts I have been following for a while, for both inspiration and good cheer! It was a pleasure to finally meet them both. If only Alfie the dog didn’t howl so much during the chat, we could have heard more from Cath who just became a Pommelier! :)
"] Dick and Cath and Alfie the dog
Listen next to Gabe Cook, who authored a book in 2018 titled The Ciderologist as he tells the story and mythology behind May Hill.
The final feature is with two cider enthusiasts from Wales, Ed and Beck. They discovered Broome Farm where Ross Cider is located 10 years ago. Listen as they share a fun story of the Brockhampton Perry blend.
06 Mar 2024
403: Botanist and Barrel Eclectic Ferments | NC
00:58:33
Meet one half of the family team at Botanist and Barrel
Botanist and Barrel is a family owned and operated cidery. Kether Smith and brother Lyndon and their respective spouses Derick McGuffey and Amie Fields make the magic happen at this eclectic cidery. They began selling cider commercially in 2017 and they all enjoy making cider.
Lyndon Smith and Amie Fields
There are two tasting rooms. Production happens at the Cedar Grove Location and in Asheville you can visit the Botanist and Barrel Tasting Room.
In this Cider Chat
Lyndon and Amie were interviewed while attending CiderCon 2024 in Portland Oregon. They provide tips on how to approach their products when visiting the tasting room.
go to CiderChat.com to find over 400 episode with from makers around the world
04 Aug 2021
283: Cidercraft Magazine | Who is Cider's Media Part 2
00:47:41
Who is Cidercraft Magazine
Cidercraft Magazine was launched in 2014 and provides a wide array of articles on the topic of cider. Kristin Ackerman Bacon the Founder of Cidercraft is not a newbie to the publishing world having worked in the field for 20 years and this magazine is not her only publication. She along with her sister Melissa Ackerman Miller, started SIP Magazine which is geared towards wine enthusiasts in 2010.
Kristin credits James Coan of Wandering Aengus Cider (Oregon) who at the time was also the President of the United States Association of Cider Makers (now known as the American Cider Association) for encouraging her to start Cidercraft.
Kristin Ackerman Bacon
Cidercraft today
Initially Cidercraft had 2 print issues per year.
Today there is one hard copy issue sent out in January and 4 digital issues per year.
The January issue is meant to coincide with the ACA's annual trade conference CiderCon which is held in late January or early February each year.
Who is the Audience?
Unlike SIP which is 100% focused on wine lovers, Cidercraft is a blend of news for both cider fans and commerical makers or those in the trade. This stat alone is telling for the state of cider currently as the audience for all of the media outlets find themselves balancing articles and stories to a mix audience as this niche market continues to grow.
What to expect in each issue of Cidercraft?
Find profiles of cidermakers
Travel tips
Cider Reviews and Recommendations - Along with a buying guide!
Pairing cider with food
Cider Cocktails
Cider Competition
This annual competition is led by the team at Cidercraft, with the January issue focusing on select winners offering a ton of recommendations for readers.
Colin Davis is the lead ciderman at Shacksbury, a cidery based in northern Vermont in the town of Shoreham. Shacksbury was incorporated in 2013 and began selling ciders in 2014. Unlike many new startups that focus locally, the decision was made early on, to sell broadly.
The immediate success of Shacksbury can be credited to both Colin Davis and his business partner David Dolginow. They hit the road running by creating a formidable team with the likes of Simon Day from the UK's Once Upon a Tree and Ainara Otaño, a Basque cider maker from Petritegi .
The Basque collaboration with Ainara is now bottled in Spain. Shacksbury's Arlo, Farmhouse and Classic ciders are all blended with a Spanish base cider and their own Vermont cider.
There is also a base blend that is pre fermented in the UK and shipped to the US. Simon and Colin work with the Dragon Orchard in England, a 40 acre orchard and decide together what apples go in the base cider.
Don't be fooled into thinking that this is all imported cider. Sunrise Orchards is a local Vermont orchard that they work with, as well as, having planted their own trees with scion wood from the Poverty Lane Orchards.
Lost Apple Project, using local apples found on "feral trees" in the Vermont backwoods. As they find the perfect apple that taste just right they are trying to propagate new trees.
What is new for Shacksbury?
A tasting room in being built and should be ready for 2017.
A new selection of canned ciders is in the works for 2017
Pick Cider is the United States Association of Cider Makers campaign to get American to pick cider to have with their Thanksgiving meal. Stay tuned to what is sure to be a very fun and productive campaign.
307: Gary Flowers & Diane Flynt | CiderCon2022 Keynotes
00:50:29
Keynote Speakers of CiderCon 2022
Gary Flowers is a keynote speaker, radio host and the tour guide who leads the Jackson Ward history tour. The tour was one of a number of pre-conference tour offerings for CiderCon2022 attendees who had flocked to the city of Richmond, Virginia in the first week of February. The food and cider was abundantly delicious, with stops at the wildly popular restaurant MamaJ's and Cheddar Jackson. But it was Flowers who really stole the show and kept our small group riveted with fact after fact on the history of the Jackson Ward community.
Gary Flowers
In this episode hear the beginning of the tour with Gary Flowers.
Diane Flynt provides the opening keynote for CiderCon 2022 and encouraged the audience to embrace the story of Apples! Hear in this episode her full keynote address!
Diane Flynt
A bit about Diane Flynt via the American Cider Association website
"Diane began in 1997 when she founded Foggy Ridge Cider, the first licensed cidery in the South, by planting cider apples, including many southern varieties. From 2004-2018 Foggy Ridge Cider produced 5300 gallons a year of orchard-focused ciders that was distributed across 15 states.
Since its first production, Foggy Ridge Cider gained a national reputation for high quality cider. Foggy Ridge was featured on CBS Sunday Morning Show, and in publications including Gourmet, Imbibe, Saveur, Garden & Gun, Esquire and Martha Stewart Living. Food & Wine magazine named Foggy Ridge a “Small Batch Superstar” in 2010. MADE: In America awarded Foggy Ridge a 2012 American Treasurer’s Award, recognition for artisan producers. Foggy Ridge Cider received many “best of” awards, including a top rating from the New York Times for its Serious Cider blend.
Flynt herself was nominated for the James Beard Award for Outstanding Beverage Professional in 2015 and 2016, and was a finalist for this award in 2017 and 2018. She speaks on cider, farming and food culture in national and regional forums."
Neil MacDonald is a self described “man of the soil”. He co-launched Orchard Pig Cider in 2004. His specialty is apple growing and the primary process of the cidermaking at Orchard Pig Cider.
This recording was taped with Neil at CiderCon 2016 in Portland Oregon.
Neil MacDonald, Orchard Park Farms and Orchard Pig Cider
The Path to the Orchard Pig Cider
Neil was granted a scholarship from the Nuffield Farming Scholarship Trust which has helped him hone in on his apple growing passion and helped him travel around the world.
Neil uses what is a called a “Bush Orchard” in the UK, which works well with the mechanics of harvesting within high density orchards for a maximum harvest.
What is a bush tree?
Free standing root stock. A 111, 106, or M25. Neil’s farm is currently doing some trials with an A2, B118, P18 root stock. Anything smaller than a 111 or 106 are not strong enough to handle the mechanical harvesting.
The trees are growing 18 feet tall….And they join up like a high hedge.
The width of the row is 18 feet wide. If you limit the row size it will limit the use of mechanical harvesting.
The cost structure for maintaining this type of orchard Neil says, “Is considerably less than a high density orchard.”
Neil discusses what is required when putting in a 100 acres of apple trees per man with his system of orchard production.
1 man
1 tractor
1 sprayer
1 harvester
1 mechanical pruner
All this equals – extensive commodity producers!
The two main objectives for growing fruit
Price – the farmer receives in payment for the crop yield
Yield – the amount of fruit that can be grown.
From this vantage the orchardist looks at the consumer, which in this case is the cidermaker and meets exactly what the cidermaker looking for:
Apple juice quanity
Acid
Sugar
Tannin
Mechanical Harvesting in a nutshell
The process is broken down a bit in this chat as follows… but really Ciderville it is best to listen to Neil to get the full scope of what he is describing.)
Allow the fruit to fall on the ground, which insures that the fruit is fully ripe, the sugars are fully turned and the starches are gone are from it.
Allowing the apples to fall on the ground encourages the natural yeast for the first ferment.
Early fermentation comes from the yeast in the orchards.
The secondary from the fabric of the building where it is fermenting, rather than using cultured yeast.
Fun cider Facts discussed in this Cider Chat:
Only 1% of alcohol by volume and all pathogens are gone. So why not allow apples to drop on the ground and then harvest?
Neil chats: Rats in cider? And the not uncommon addition of a leg of mutton into a cider, for a short period of time.
Neil’s notes on cider makers here in the US?
They are coming from it as either a brewer or winemaker and as such approach it from 2 completely different paths.
Winemakers are very clean stylistically
Brewers approach it from the hop it up perspective.
US cidermakers have a lot to learn from our neighbors to the east and chats like this one with Neil MacDonald will certainly help us more forward to create a sustainable cider trade.
Apprenticeship at Orchard Park Farms go to 39:40 minutes in on this podcast to listen to the description of the intern position. It ends roughly at 41:30.
Qualities:
25 or older
Grafter
scientific background is a good quality to have
responsible for Orchard trials.
Neil quotes I loved from this chat:
Make a good quality apple cider. If it is good it will stay. If it is poor you will lose sales and it will fall away.
Quality and drinkability…I use quaffability a lot.
Every orchard is a permanent experiment.
Sponsor of this Cider Chat
Are you thirsty for some UK ciders? Check out Press Then Press for US shipping. Cider Cellars has now closed their on line shop. But at Cider Chat Central we will never forget their support for Cider Chat when it first launched! Thank you Cider Cellars for Sponsoring this episode with Neil MacDonald!
Mentions in this Cider Chat
For Sale: Mobile Juicing Trailer – this trailer is long gone since this episode was posted. Keep listening for more news from Ciderville!
28 Feb 2024
402: Michigan's Simply, Spectacular PIF Cider
01:03:59
Meet the Founders of Presque Isle Farm Cider a.k.a PIF
Molly and Dion Stepanski are the founders of of PIF Cider with an inviting Tasting Room located in Alpena, Michigan. They met in New Orleans where Dion was working as a Jazz muscian and Molly in a store. In 2014 they move to farm vegetables at Dion’s family farm in Posen, MI. There they planted a one acre orchard which Dion describes as high density, but not trellised. They sources their apples from Michigan’s TraverseCity area which is to the west of Alpena.
Dion and Molly
From the outset they wanted to make English Style Ciders and by all accounts they are hitting this target straight out producing delectable ciders that please the palate and made this cider podcast host swoon with delight.
In this Cider Chat with PIF Producers
The backstory of PIF and the Stepanski’s journey to cider
Cider making techniques at PIF
Native yeas
Barrel program
Blends and Single varietal
The cider fans of Presque Island and the surrounding area.
What can guests expect when visiting.
How to get PIF products!
PIF Cider Tasted
2022 Farmhouse 8.2%
Kingston Black
Bulmers Norman
Brown Snout
Northern Spy
Label by their son
Kingston Black and Bulmers 50/50
Made in Stainless
Single Varietal Spitzenberg 2021 12.5%
Aged for 2 years in Bourbon Barrel
Clean Ciders meaning pitched yeast
Golden Russet, Harrison blend 9% semi dry
Bulmers Norman and Coxs Orange Pippin
Farmhouse back sweeten with French Bittersweet concentrate
This is in a can and is a slight variation from the 750 ml bottles
Cider Chat Live brings you a tasting of a celebratory cider from Santa Cruz Cider Company paires with a what is called Basque Cheesecake!
Basque Cheesecake is much less dense than classic New York cheesecake. It is crustless, and has a golden, beautiful caramelized exterior. It also has a much lighter texture and flavor. The cheesecake is baked at a high temperature in order to get that burnt exterior and super creamy interior.
In this Live on Cheesecake and Cider from Santa Cruz!
This mini episode came about when Nicole Todd who cofounded Santa Cruz Cider Company in California with her sister Natalie. Nicole was traveling east to Maine with fellow book club members who she has been meeting monthly since covid kicked off in 2020.
They spent the evening with Ria, went for a swim to avoid the heat and drank copious amounts of cider and ended the evening with a special pairing of the 10 year anniversary cider with the Basque Cheesecake.
Hear about this anniversary cider and how it all started with foraged fruit in the Monterey Bay area of California. It is one part picking up fruit that turned into a relationship with an older orchardist in the Watsonville area of California.
387: American Cider Association CEO & CiderCon 2024
00:57:15
Catching up with Michelle McGrath CEO of the ACA
CiderCon 2024 takes place in Portland, Oregon, making it the perfect time to chat with the American Cider Association's CEO Michelle McGrath. The Northwest Cider Association is also involved helping with the cider tours on Monday and Tuesday and Oregon Cider Week!
Who is Michelle McGrath? Why did your job title change from Ex Dir to CEO? The latter, is a typical of a for-profit organization title. Was this new title part of signifying a greater change for the ACA moving forward?
What are the key services that the American Cider Association is providing to its membership?
Who can join the American Cider Association?
CEO Michelle’s must attend (do not miss) recommendation for CiderCon 2024
CiderCon 2024
What is CiderCon? How do the host cities get chosen?
This year it returns to Portland Oregon, for the first time since 2016. What can attendees expect with this site (physical overview) what is different from the downtown location in 2016.
Planning Tips for getting the most out of CiderCon (or why should a business send themselves or their staff).
Pre conference cider tours: Why arrive early and sign up for a cider tour?
First Timers, Networking & Traveling alone to CiderCon – “how to stay in the loop”
Learning Tracks at CiderCon
Doing Business Better
Making Amazing Cider
Selling More Cider
Growing bountiful Apples
Exploring Cider’s Flavor & Terroir
International Guest at CiderCon
There are a number of speakers from Sweden and Norway attending CiderCon 2024. Is this in keeping with highlighting a specific country or region as in past? Will there be any specific tasting sessions from the Nordic countries?
CiderCon has become the largest conference in the world for the cider industry and this year it appears to spotlight more international speakers than ever before, from both Scandinavia and the UK. How do you recommend members or attendees who are focused on their US market to interpret the state of cider in America, if the pool of speakers is dominated by international guests.
Is there a final closing toast that attendees can participate in, the Friday before heading home?
Contact info for American Cider Association and CEO
144: New England Cider Tour & Dinner | November 1, 2018
00:34:59
New England is comprised of 6 states, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut and is home to some of the United States' oldest commercial cideries. In what is known as western Massachusetts, the annual cider fest known as Franklin County CiderDays, takes place on the first weekend of November each year. This year is the 24th annual and takes place on November 2-4, 2018.
Cider Barrels outside at Farnum Hill, New Hampshire[/caption]
To kick off CiderDays and welcome so many travelers from around the globe, I am offering a cider tour to New Hampshire and Vermont on November 1st. Cuz - why not share my passion of all the amazing cider options in this region.
E.J Scott Orchard has apples for sale macs, cortlands, macoun, spencers, red and golden del, galas, honey crisps, jonagolds, fujis, empires, spys, mutsus, cameos, and greenings. Contact Colin Scott about the apples and for anyone interested in cold storage or just space. He has 19000 square ft in one room and 9000 square ft in the other that he will rent to one business not multiple.
Colin will be teaching grafting at CiderDays on Sunday November 4th.
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Hear what the ACA and the USA's regional associations are doing to help members while their businesses are shuttered during quarantine.
Cider Chat Live: Helping Cider in Covid Time w/ACA
Recorded March 19, 2020 with American Cider Association (ACA) Executive Director Michelle McGrath.
"If the airline industry is getting excise tax relief, then the beverage alcohol industry should also get relief."
Goals to Help Members:
Expanded Unemployment insurance
Suspension of Payroll Taxes
Federal Excise Tax Relief
no and low interest loan growth in the funding of the above programs
Industry Stabilization Funds
cash infusions
Maintaining an open commercial border
Suspension of beverage tariffs and their suppliers
Up to the end of April, the ACA encourages association members who were forced to layoff staff, to Michelle to have their former employees sign up for a free level 1 Certified Cider Professional exam so they can add to their resume during this down time.
9am - Wednesday March 25, 2020 The NYCA Town Hall to address issues surrounding the Covid-19 epidemic
New York Cider Association elected new Executive Director is Scott Ramsey. He will be holding a Digital Town Hall meeting with New York Cider Association
111: Cidernomics "Breaking Bad or Breaking Even" w/Eleanor Leger
01:03:06
Budgeting money effectively is critical whether you are managing a household or a commercial business such as a cidery. In this episode of Cider Chat I speak with Eleanor Leger of Eden Specialty Cider based Vermont now in it’s 10th year of business.
I was able to squeak in a mini episode before setting off to Chicago for the annual cider trade conference “CiderCon” hosted by the United States Association of Cider Makers.
I’ve been talking a lot about CiderCon leading up to this week of February 4-9, 2019. With 1000 people attending from all parts of the world, it is the Talk of the Town - for those of us who are hooked on all things cider.
Below is my schedule of recordings - I have a pretty simple set up to track who I will be speaking to and when. I am stoked that I will have more time at workshops recording, versus hidden away in a back room doing interviews. It’s not that I don’t like interviews, but when I heard last year that no one saw me for most of CiderCon in Baltimore - I realized that just ain’t right. So this CiderCon - I have set up an number on seminar and panel recordings.
Even as I am flying to Chicago right now - I am getting direct messages in Twitter from makers who are going to CiderCon and looking to chat. Luckily I have also learned to leave a few open slots for just these kind of meet ups.
Here is the recording schedule thus far -
Feb 5th Tuesday Arrive…get landed find half and half for morning coffee that me and my hotel mate Erica can use for the bad ass French press she is bringing (dang sure glad I agreed to room with Erica who also is one of the biggest, joyful cider enthusiasts around …my kind of cider person!)
Lee Reeve - InCider Japan 6-7pm
- note to self, bring the bottle of Calvados - must do a swig with Lee, whom I am stoked to meet.
Little Pomona - 7pm - I must catch up with Susanna and James Forbes - Already have my copy of The Cider Insider, that Susanna just wrote - and would love to talk to her about this awesome book! A must have - links to buy on the Cider Chat resource page
The Northman Cider Bar tonight…maybe or lay low and pace myself…we will see
Feb 6th amWednesday
9-10 Simon Day - Once Upon a Tree | UK - I am so excited to meet Simon and hear his tales and drink his cider!!!
1-3pm Pomme Boots Meeting - Krista Scruggs of ZAFA wines is speaking!!!
3-4pm Media - I think as media I get to go to the Cider Share early - weeeeeee
4-6:30pm Cider Share - Heaven on earth - walking about a room full of cider and the makers
7pm - James Creek Ciderhouse, North Carolina - a cider dinner and recording with Ann Marie and David Thornton???? “Yes - please”
Feb 7th Thursday
10:15am - Beginning Cidermaker panel - continental A - I get to moderate and introduce this powerhouse panel.
10:15am Dryness - Williford C - I will be recording this key presentation with folks from the New York Cider Association - Jen Smith is the Ex Director and I Heart Jen!
12 - 1pm Attorney Marc Sorini is speaking during lunch on the History of Alcohol! I had to coax Marc to allow me to record! Can’t wait to hear this presentation!!!
3-4:30pm oak - Ryan Monkman - Wiliford A-B - Ryan of Ontario - …based on Prince Edward County and maker of Field Bird Cider - If you haven’t listen to Barrels and Bàtonnage with Ryan - DO - he is amazing. and I adore him,
Feb 7th Thursday evening open - who knows where I will be once the sun goes down. One thing for sure, I will have a glass of cider in my hand.
Feb 8th Friday
10:15am Embracing & Encouraging Diversity - Continental C - yowza - this is a powerhouse panel
12:30am Michelle McGrath - lunch speaker - I want to record Michelle - she is the perfect fit for the USACM and the fact that she is doing all that she does and is pregnant to boot! Super Star!!!
Leaving Open - 1:30 - 4:30
Friday evening - Erica scored a ticket to the SpeakEasy Cider meet up - YeeHaw!
Feb 9th Saturday -
A full day at Chicago Cider Summit
Feb 10th Sunday
Fly home - Ya!
02 Oct 2024
427: Under 30 Startup Ingenuity | Heartland Cideworks, OR
00:53:47
Collaboration Meets Ingenuity at Heartland Ciderworks
This episode is packed with insights for anyone interested in the intersection of entrepreneurship and craft cider-making. In Episode 427 of Cider Chat, Eliseo Bell-Uribe shares his story as a young entrepreneur and how and why he founded Heartland Ciderworks.
Practical Advice for Cider Startups: Learning to Collaborate
Starting a cidery from scratch is no easy task. The Eliseo shares practical advice on how to navigate the hurdles of zoning issues, sourcing equipment, and finding the right partnerships. By collaborating with a local winery, Heartland was able to sidestep some of the common challenges faced by new cideries, such as acquiring expensive equipment and navigating complex regulations.
For budding cider makers, this episode offers a blueprint for how to creatively solve problems and make the most of available resources. Whether it’s building your own bottling setup or finding a winery willing to do custom crush, the key takeaway is to stay flexible and open to collaboration.
A Closer Look at Heartland’s Ciders
Heartland Ciderworks may be a young company, but their lineup of ciders is anything but ordinary. Here’s a quick look at the ciders discussed in the episode:
Avalon
Description: Heartland’s flagship cider that combines Foxwhelp, Golden Russet, Yarlington Mill, and Dabinett apples.
ABV: 7.7%
Notes: Features a beautiful orange hue with a balance of tannins and acidity.
Little Apple
Description: A low-alcohol cider kin made with rehydrated pomace and back-sweetened with Golden Russet and Foxwhelp.
ABV: 3.65%
Notes: Easy-drinking with a light and refreshing profile.
Cooper
Description: A bourbon barrel-aged cider made primarily from Sweet Alford apples.
ABV: 6.4%
Notes: Rich with subtle bourbon notes, this cider is a limited-edition favorite, but more Cooper is in the cue!
Heart of the Valley
Description: A community-foraged cider made with apples gathered from the Salem area, benefiting the local Boys and Girls Club.
ABV: 5.75%
Notes: A modern cider with a sweeter profile and a beautiful can design.
Olive Branch
Description: A Newtown Pippin cider aged on olive leaves, offering a unique bitterness similar to hops.
Notes: A one-of-a-kind cider with complex aromas and a distinctive flavor profile.
Rosé Cider (Upcoming Release)
Description: A co-ferment of red-fleshed apples with Pinot Noir grape skins, lightly oaked for added tannin.
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Cedar Hannan began selling his ciders branded as “Wildbranch” in 2020.
He both forages apples and has a small orchard planted that he planted four years ago on his farm based in Craftsbury, Vermont. The ciders are both wild ferments and occasionally have cultured yeasts too.
He sells locally at Vermont farmers markets and doesn’t have any immediate plans to increase his production which is currently at 900 gallons per year.
Cedar Hannan
The Low Carbon Footprint of Cider
Cedar was originally looking at brewing as a retirement goal, but (as he notes in this episode) there are already a fantastic number of breweries in the surrounding area. In addition, the carbon footprint of beer is a bit larger than that of making cider at a local scale. Thankfully for us all, Cedar went with his hunch and is making Wildbranch Cider his full time gig, having quit his IT job.
Each of the following is what Cedar looks for when foraging apples or pears for Wildbranch.
Flavor - aroma
Tannin
Acidity
Sugar content
Wildbranch Ciders tasted in the Episode
The Spiney - Flagship cider 6.8%
Try with cheddar cheese and grilled pork chop
Golden Russet 8.3%
Intense fruitiness, Little bit of cooked apple
Perry
Made with culinary pears - Barlett’s and Big Earl (a local variety)
130: Cider Voices from Grand Rapids & #2GLINTCAPorBUST
01:00:07
Cider Voices from Grand Rapids Cider Week and the Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition
On the evening of May 14th Joby Willson, Mark Gryska, Charlie Olchowski and William Grote and myself headed out in a big old van to Grand Rapids, thanks to Mike Beck who invited us and hosted us throughout the week. Beck who he is lovingly called by all manages GLINTCAP and hires a team of people to run the program. Look to the GLINTCAP link to see the whole team.
Once we arrived in Grand Rapids the guys stayed on one side of the river at their flat and I got to hang out with Michelle McGrath, Executive Director of the United States Association of Cider Makers, Michelle Pagona aka The Brew Babe and Darlene Hayes, author of Cider Cocktails; Another Bite of the Apple.
That evening we headed to Uncle Johns Hard Cider for dinner. Nicole Ward of Forgotten Ciders (listen to Nicole and Rafe Wards chat #74), Brian and Ambrosia from Chicago's cider bar The Northman, Helen Thomas "Weston" of Weston Cider, UK and Bob Chaplin both came over from the UK to judge. Helen is the Chairwoman for the National Cider Maker Association in the UK and Weston Ciders. Bob runs the Royal Bath and West Cider Competition. It was an amazing evening riding about the orchards and tasting ciders in their inviting tasting room. Mike and Dee are quite the hosts and I highly recommend you visit their cidery in Saint John's, Michigan.
Wednesday May 16th began with a Cider Tour of West Michigan Makers
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
This episode marks the 350th episode of this weekly podcast and the end of Season 7. The Nose and Ria sat down for a dinner chat and looked over the past season. The dinner was designed to be paired with a cider called Heirloom for an Austin cidery called Texas Keeper. In true Cider Chat style this delicious cider was one of many.
Download and listen to all past episodes mentions in this chat by going to the Cider Chat podcast page.
This epsiodes ends Season 7 of Cider Chat. Find all the Season's at the podcast page. There you will find also the show notes for each episode, links to the makers and featured guests and mentions made in each chat.
301: "Quality of Life" at the Water Wheel Cider Mill
00:51:52
Building a Water Wheel to Power a Cider Mill
Phil Watson grew up on an old farm with an old cider press that powered a water wheel. When a water wheel turns it produces a lot of force, so his mom back then had the old wheel taken down. That water wheel made a big impression on Phil so years later he built his own water wheel powered cider press on his 200 acre lot where he mills up lumber.
In this episode hear the full backstory of building the water wheel with one oak tree. The 3 story cider house is set up with the top floor designed to receive the apples and the old leaf mulcher now used to grind up the apples.
The second floor is where the press is set up and there is even a bike on that floor that can be used to also power the press.
The bottom floor is where the juice is received in an old milk tank.
Making Cider with the Water Wheel Powered Cider Mill
Water Wheel - 14 diameter
When the wheel is turning:
20 gallons pre pressing on a rack and cloth press that Phil also built. They can do 4-5 pressings an hour.
Phil's label for his bottles says Snake Cider Company with the logo, "Don't Eat the Apple. Drink the Snake"
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272: Blend Cider & Build an Orchestra | Ask Ryan 2021
00:43:36
Blend Cider is Like Building an Orchestra
Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider in Ontario has helped Ria sort through the process of getting cider that has been conditon for over two years into the bottle! Now that we have learned how to make sure the cider is completely fermented, know the exact amount of sugar remaining in the cider and have done the math to determine how much sugar and what kind of yeast to add at the time of bottling to produce sparkling cider it is time to blend or not?
Ryan and Nicole Monkman - FieldBird Cider
Ryan describes this stage as building an orchestra. Knowing what musicians go well with others is key to making the perfect tune. For cider it means:
Pulling samples from all your batches of cider and know that
Tannins and acid work well together
tannin though can mute aromatics
when pushing aromatic - acid helps as does high alcohol
Blending Taste Tips
When tasting a lot of either sweet, or acid forward ciders the more your palate will become accustom to either profile.
Tannin does the opposite, as the tannin begins to build up in your mouth.
So as you taste more a tannic product over time you may think it is becoming more tannic, but it is not. Your palate is just overloaded and tricking you mind to think that the cider is over the top, when it may be perfect!
Tannin bind with protein.
If you swirl and sip, you will notice there are a lot of globs in the spit. Yucky but true because the tannin has binded with the protein in your mouth
Refresh your mouth when Tasting for Blending
Add protein to your mouth is a good way to off set the tannin.
Cheese works, but if it is too strong of a cheese that can lead you donw a different rabbit hole of tastes.
Instead, do as Ryan does in the lab, and mix pectin with water!
The pectin will bind to the tannin and clear your palate.
Pectin is tasteless and will really help to refresh you palate.
Or leave the sample and come back to it a
Use pectin to clean your palate during a lot of tasting.
Pectin helps to clear the palate after a whole bunch of sips of sweet cider.
Bâtonnage, Nano Proteins and Perceptions of Sweetness
Bâtonnage is stirring the cider into the. lees over time the span of its life in a barrel.
Autolyis takes places, which is the breaking down of yeast cells in the cider during over time... usually 9 month into the process of bâtonnage. The human palate perceive the resulting nano proteins as sweetness. It can balance then acid and also add mid palate: which provides that full mouth feel that lingers.
Three guys and an endless supply of credit cards helped build what is today called Artisan Beverage Cooperative (ARTBEV) in Greenfield, Massachusetts. General Manager and co founder Garth Shandyfelt provides an overview on how ARTBEV grew plus;
working in a cooperative
getting capital to expand via a direct public offer of stock
what is mead
what is cyser
creating a sustainable model for growth
Started in 2010 making mead, ARTBEV's multi tiered business now produces a range of products to keep stock rolling out the door. Mead and Cyser, for instance, can take upwards to a year or longer to condition, whereas the Ginger Libation made by ARTBEV can be made in two weeks, much like beer.
What is Mead?
Fermented Water, Honey and Yeast or what Garth calls wine made with honey.
"It is a mead if you have more than 50% of your fermentable made with honey."
A Braggot is a beer made with honey and cider
What is Cyser or Cyzer (as ARTBEV calls it - go to 1 hour in on the podcast and find out why)
A cider made with some amount of cider during initial fermentation.
Some cider has honey added for sweetening, but may not be considered a cyser.
How much honey does ARTBEV use yearly?
Upwards to 6000 pounds of honey all delivered via 5 gallon buckets
How much honey do you need to make a 5-gallon batch of mead?
You will need upwards to 12-15 pounds of honey for a 5 gallon batch.
Garth was inspired by Dan Conlon is a key figure in New England working with bees at Warm Colors Apiary.
Eric Bordelet is both the maker and the brand atChateau de Hauteville in the southern edge of Normandy in the village of Châtaigne. The fact that he exports 80% of his ciders to markets around the world at a premium price worthy of a fine wine is just one of the reasons that the brand Eric Bordelet is so highly sought after by both wine and cider enthusiasts.
This episode is Part 1 of a two-part chat. Part 2 will follow as episode 058.
During this chat The Nose and I are having lunch with Eric at the Hôtel Gayot in the lovely and lively village Bagnoles de l'Orne. You will find Eric’s cider on tap at this hotels restaurant - though it might not say anything other than “cider” it is indeed Bordelet!There is also a shop where you can buy many of Eric’s cider’s and poires (perry) and calvados.
Listen to the background sounds of lunch time at as we discuss his path towards cider, beginning when he worked as a waiter, then a sommelier. Part of Eric's fame is that in Paris at the time his wine list was second to none...and for France not to mention Paris that is quite a feat.
With his parents retirement and the realization that one could not age into the role of a sommelier he decided to head back to the family farm and make cider.
Eric discusses how his interest in food and working with chefs, helped to hone his cider skills. And certainly the impact of his late friend and mentor Didier Daganeau.
In Part 2 we tour the rebuilding of the Chateau de Hauteville and the chay (the common phrase in this region for cidery).
Contact Eric Bordelet
Eric Bordelet Chateau de Hauteville 53250 Charchigné - France
The next day it was onto meet Jerome Dupont of the Domaine Dupont
The area surrounding Domaine Dupont is dotted with cideries everywhere. You can spend hours roaming around in search of the perfect glass or find yourself wanting for a rest at a cafe to enjoy the French country air. I however was on the quest for cider or as it is written in French cidre (sedar).
I made one more stop to meet with Stéphane et Lucile Grandval – Manoir de Grandouet before heading onto to the Domfront region of Normandy where pears are celebrated like no where else in the world.
Thursday was spent meeting with Phillipe who along with his wife open their farm to a festival of art called The Appel au Bois Normand - this is not an apple fest, but it sure is one heck of a festival.
Having stayed with my new friend Michel Dargent who owns the Airbnb that I stayed in while touring the Domfront region of Normandy, I learned of a local cidermaker whose Poire knock my socks off! I will speak about Roland as I roll out these episodes from France.
My last night in Normandy was spent having dinner with Eric Bordelet. We discussed the world affairs of cider as we drank a bottle of 2008 and 2014 Argellete, along with a bottle of red wine. To contrast the wine with the cider helped me understand and appreciate what Eric offers as a maker. His ciders are about terroir and that means the earth. When he walks in his orchards he looks to the ground and picks up the local stone - You can taste the earth in his cider. Yes they are dry, but they also yield the taste of stone or minerality that you feel on your teeth and in your mouth....imagine being in a rock quarry and having the stone dust coat your mouth. Bordelet ciders are dry and wet at the same time and of course delicious.
Next year in 2018, I will be offering to two trip to 20 people to come with me to the UK and then on to Normandy. Many of the people mentioned in this chat will be part of the Normandy tour, including Eric who will provide a seminar on how to taste cider.
Patrons of Cider Chat will be the first ones to be offered to come on the trip. If you would like to become a patron and help support this chat go to this link.
Next I will put out a mailing on the eCiderNews - you can subscribe via this link.
Suffice to say, it was a memorable experience in Normandy and the Netherlands - and I can't wait to return. Perhaps with you?
Paul Vander Heide opened Vander Mill a cidery based in Spring Lake Michigan in 2008. Some might think that 3000 square feet is a good size for a start up cidery and they would be right. But as Paul reminisces in this chat, they had to expand quickly when they had to move outdoors to continue production.
In 2016, a new location was open in Grand Rapids. Both locations have a Tap Room and Restaurant.
Vander Mill makes both modern ciders and Heritage ciders.
Go to 31:57 in the podcast to hear Paul discuss the question of what is a Heritage apple in the US.
At CiderCon2018 Paul was elected as the new President of the United States Association of Cider Makers. He is very optimistic about cider in America and speaks about embracing the diversity of makers in the US, which range from traditional, modern to a blend of both.
For Vander Mill the consumers informed this maker on the styles that they make, says Paul “ It was the consumer that drove our business into a wide range of styles for Vander Mill. The cidery makes both Heritage and Modern ciders.
And while the cider drinker’s palate slowly changes towards more subtle notes, Paul is not waiting on planting cider apple varieties. He credits Vander Mill’s partnership with a local grower who has put in a large block of cider apples for making the future look quite bright….or…er…full bodied and tannic. :)
Find Vander Mill ciders, distributed in:
Michigan
Wisconsin
Ohio
Indiana
Illinois
Draft accounts throughout Michigan and Chicago with a sprinkling of draft accounts throughout the other states
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Kertelreiter Cider is based in the village of Schefflenz in North Baden, Germany. The cidery came about when Irishman Barry Masterson fell in love with a German lass and moved to her homeland to raise a family. Though Barry's first love was beer, this full time land surveyor found himself eyeing and then eventually fermenting the ample supply of culinary apples in his area.
Barry Masterson and reworked cider presses
Kertelreiter is as Barry puts it is "tiny". Considering that in 2017 Kertelreiter produced close to 1000 liters (L) , about 220 gallons "tiny' is likely a good description, but it also lends the maker time to hone one's skills.
Says Barrys, "We’d doubled the orchard size in early 2019, and had been thinking about selling our cider. I had planned to step up to 2000 liters as a start. However, the harvest was really poor as a result of a combination of stress from drought the previous year and if I remember correctly a disagreeable frost. Because we had excess capacity due to the lack of apple, I went begging for Perry Pear trees to harvest from. In the end we managed just short of 1000L again allowing up to produce enough to make a start with selling."
To supplement the apple harvest, Perry Pears are used for both making Perry and to add structure such as tannins to the cider.
Anu, the dog, and a Perry Pear tree
Barry estimates that, "If the orchard at Kertelreiter carried a full load, we could easily make 5000L (1320 gallons) or more. But for the moment, I'm happy to stay small..."
Kertelreiter has a full line up of Ciders, Perry and Fruit Ciders, such as Out of the Sun, a cider with quince!
Harvest rights for orchards in Germany for Kertelreiter
Barry and his wife were concerned about the amount of fruit going to waste, especially as the local town hall stopped auctioning off harvest rights, so they have tried to fill this gap by creating a local fruit tree exchange. This means they try to connect people with trees that are not being used and people who would like fruit for making their own juice or cider. It's early days, but Barry is confident they can build a good catalog, and maybe combine it with teaching people to make their own cider to encourage use of fruit that would otherwise go to waste."
Providing structure in Kertelreiter ciders
Barry add Perry Pears to his cider to bring in some tannins and he also uses wood aging to add structure to some of his ciders. For instance using an ex Cabernet Sauvignon Barrique, and a really old German cider barrel that he says helps mature and soften the acids in his ciders. And he's been using oak chips and other kinds of wood to add other dimensions, while trying to keep the fruit to the fore".
Organic Tools apple picker upper - contact Barry for more info
Tip of the glass to the following sponsors of this episode 251
New York International Cider Competition- February 21, 2021 3rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now
Part 5 To Rack or Not To Rack is a must listen too because it brings you through the conditioning of your cider before bottling.
Now lets get into the basic of bottling cider at home!
When to bottle
When the Specific Gravity is at least 1.000 or lower.
What is Specific Gravity (SG)?
Specific Gravity is always discussed as a measurement of “relative density” between the water in solution and all else. Apple juice is primarily water and the rest I consider luscious apple sugars. Fermentation is the process of yeast converting the sugars into ethanol and carbon dioxide.
Tap water has a SG of 1.000.
Apple Juice, on average, before fermentation has begun has a SG of 1.040 to 1.065.
Apple Juice SG will vary depending upon the growing season that year, was it dry or wet year, are the apples fully ripe, the age of the apple tree, and the apple variety are some of the key factors affecting Specific Gravity.
You might not see the airlock bubbling away, but your cider may still be fermenting. To be safe and avoid bottling cider that is still off gassing CO2 - Check the SG!
How to measure SG?
Measure Specific Gravity with a Hydrometer. The Hydrometer typically comes with a plastic tube that can be filled at least 3/4 of the way with fresh pressed apple juice. Make sure that the temperature of the juice is no cooler than 60 degrees Fahrenheit or 15 degrees Celsius and no hotter than 70F or 21C.
What happens if I bottle my cider while it is still fermenting?
The bottle of cider can explode. Bottle bombs are very dangerous and can inflict serious injury to anyone nearby. When in doubt - check the SG.
During Bottling you get to choose whether you want:
Still
Bubbly
Dry
Semi Sweet
Sweet
How to make Still and/or Dry Cider?
Siphon the cider directly into your clean and sanitize bottles and cap!
How to make your cider “Bubbly” in the bottle is called Bottle Conditioning.
Options 1,2,3 In order of ease.
1. For beginner makers starting out, the safest and most tried and true method is to add both yeast and priming sugar at the time of bottling.
SG needs to be at or below 1.000
2. Pet Nat is bottling the cider before it has completely fermented and the yeast are still active, but not over active. Priming Sugar then added at the time of bottling helps reboot the remaining yeast and thus create delightful bubbles. Pet Nat best done after you have made a couple batches of cider and have the gist of bottling.
3. Méthode Champenoise is the classical way of adding bubbles and is a 2-step process.
Forced Carbonation is done when kegging cider to make it bubbly.
Making Semi Sweet or Sweet Cider requires adding a bit of sugar to the cider, which is called “Back Sweetening “
Back Sweetening is done right before you bottle. You get to chose how sweet you want your cider, by adding sugar and tasting! Tons of fun!!!
Any sugar will work. It is really a about your personal preferences, be it honey, store bought priming sugar, raw sugar, maple syrup. Experimenting and finding the right fit is part of the joy of Cidermaking.
How racking affects the amount of yeast in cider.
I usually rack my cider 3 times over the course of 7 months and then a day or two before bottling if I see Fine Lees on the bottom of the carboy. If you are bottling 3 months after primary fermentation has ended, chance are there will still be some yeast cells in the cider. Those cells will get kicked started when you add sugar to the cider right before you bottle. The key is to add the right amount of sugar so that you get s one bubbles, but not so much the cider froths over when you open a month later.
Equipment Needed to Bottle Cider - go to Shop tab and find links to purchase items below.
The 10th Annual American Cider Association trade conference CiderCon will be held in Oakland California, January 28th through to January 31, 2020. This episode provides an overview on the following topics:
Oakland weather in winter & What to wear
How to get to CiderCon via public transportation and using BART to get around Oakland and San Francisco
Where to find morning coffee and bagels
Madison Park’s morning Tai Chi session in Oakland
The Bay Area Cider Week
Oakland graffiti on the Marriott Hotel where CiderCon will take place
Oakland Marriott City Center where CiderCon is held
1 block from the 12 Street/City Center BART stop.
7 blocks (0.4 miles) to Crooked City Cider Tap House.
9 blocks (0.6 miles) to Jack London Square.
Oakland Weather in late January
Low 60s Fahrenheit, 15 Celsius
Dress in layers and always bring a cap to wear as it usually drops down to the 40s in the evening.
Transportation options BART or Ferry Service
Via BART - aka the metro line
Oakland Airport to CiderCon is 30 minutes - $2.60 one way
San Francisco Airport to CiderCon - expect an hour ride - $2.60 one way
Use Bart to San Francisco and to Redfield Cider Bar get off at theRockridge stop. Redfield is a 500 foot walk from the Rockridge stop.
16 min walk to Farleys Coffee Monday - Friday 7am-8pm, Saturday- Sunday 8am-8pm
Clear you cider palate with some bitters via craft beer
Along the way, 1/2 block off Broadway is The Trappist (Belgian & specialty beer cafe), Beer Revolution (bottle shop and tap house), Federation Brewing (brewery).
Chat with Michelle McGrath, the Executive Director of the American Cider Association
Michelle provides an overview of key speakers at CiderCon
If you have a car, take a drive to Almeida about 15 minutes from the Marriott and visit the USS Hornet. This is a fantastic place to catch the sunset with San Francisco in the background. The big battleships are quiet and you will find yourself right on the water with barely a person around.
USS Hornet museum in Almeida, California. San Francisco can be seen in the distance. This is a powerful spot to catch the sunset, but you will need a car to get to this little know battleship area. It is super cool and puts you right on the bay with spectacular views.
Kees Morsink and Margaret Van Helvoort have traveled the world as United Nations aid workers in Africa where they were fermenting everything from yogurt to mango and even doing some distilling. Cider isn’t new to these two enterprising Canadians. Kees had his first spontaneous ferment forty years ago when he put a gallon of cider in his school locker and the cider began to ferment.
Now-a-days they split their time traveling to India, Nepal, and Thailand making jewelry. This lifestlye provides them the ability to manage their own time which really helps with the seasonal demands of cider making.
Four years ago they began the process of starting up a commercial cider making operation at their home. The Tasting Room open in May 2018.
I visited with my Canadian host Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider in June of 2018. We sat down in the Kees and Margarets living room and then moved to the Tasting Room next door.
From May 31st to December 31st you can visit the Tasting Room on Saturday and Sundays from 11-6pm. There is a window that allows viewing into the cidery.
We tasted the full compliment of Kings Mill Ciders, which are all available via their online store. All the ciders made are 9% alcohol by volume (ABV), unless listed below
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider based in Prince Edward County provides an overview of Canada's response to the Covid-19 crisis gripping the world in this episode. Ryan's chat begins at approximately 11:49 minutes into this episode.
Ryan in the barrel room
Ryan has worked as an international consultant to winemakers, worked as a winemaker and has been an avid cider fan for years. More recently, he and his wife Nicole started FieldBird Cider based in Prince Edward County, Ontario in Canada.
257: Courthouse Creek "Garagistes" | Building a Cidery Part 3
00:36:58
We are Garagiste!
Liza and Eric Coffi - Courthouse Creek Garagistes
Liza and Eric Coffi jokingly call themselves 'Garagistes' of the cider world. Courthouse Creek is a family-run, small agri-business committed to respecting our land and our community. They grow apples and other fruits and vegetables using sustainable, low impact practices, and produce orchard-based cider by adhering to natural methods. Their cidery model is premised upon the small wine boutiques that they are familiar with from their time living in the Central Coast of California.
Liza Coffi at Courthouse Creek Tasting Room
Initial estimation of build out vs the actual time it took
In the orchard: "We planted our first section of the orchard in 2014, and the second section about six months later.. We knew it would take about four or so years to start seeing an appreciable yield for production purposes. It took six years. This past harvest, the 2020 harvest, was the first year where we had enough apples to produce a decent amount of cider. We ended up with three barrels – about 180 gallons."
In the cidery: "The plan was to launch our cidery as true garagistes — producing in our garage. After doing this and making sure there was a market for our product, the plan was to build a production barn and a separate tasting room on the farm by the second year, maybe third year."
Courthouse Creek outdoor tasting room
The Coffi's started producing some cider in the garage in 2014 (which is partly why they are called garagistes!) , but the real first year of production was 2015. That first and second year, 2015-2016, they produced 450 cases, or about 18 barrels. Says Eric, "Because our methods are low-fi (ie, no filtering, no fining, adhering to natural methods), this initial build-out was very basic.
[ The Coffi's had an oak barrel fermenting in their living room - and used the family's two car garage as the cidery. True Garagistes![/caption]
By 2016, they knew their plans had to change. Somewhere in the middle of building the production barn they realized that there was no way they could afford to build a separate tasting room. So, they converted the front third of the production barn into the tasting room. They opened the tasting room in March of 2017 and are currently expanding this tasting room to get to the square footage they anticipated having from inception.
Initial estimate of production (barrels) vs what the actual production is now or where you expect it to grow in next 5 years post covid
We initially planned to reach 3000 cases, or roughly 120 barrels, by year three (2018). Actual production has not hit our target:
In 2017 season 935 cases (750ml) and 1395 gals in kegged product = 60 barrels.
In 2018 season 1250 cases (750ml) and 1000 gals in kegged product = 65 barrels
In 2019 season 1250 cases (750ml) and 1000 gals in kegged product = 65 barrels
In 2020 season 1050 cases (750ml) and 850 gals in kegged product = 56 barrels
Initial projections included a split of about 75% tasting room sales, and 25% distribution.
Says Eric, "The reality for us is simple—the tasting room model works very well. Indeed, the silver lining of COVID has been a boon at the farm—we had the space in the orchard for people to properly social distance. Our new projections are more of an 85 to 90% tasting room, and the remainder targeted distribution at small, local bottle shops and high-end restaurants."
Equipment you would reconsider had you known then what you know now.
"For the orchard, we didn’t need to put in irrigation. We put in a drip line in the first section, but realized we don’t need it, we can successfully dry farm in Virginia."
Purchased a good pump straight away—and do not skimped on a cheaper model. The Coffi's use a pump from US-FIP
It is important to really map out your production flow so you can get a handle on what you need in regards to hoses, fittings, etc. It is a bit of pain to buy things piecemeal, or on the fly.
2-3 Tips for folks getting into this industry from the Garagistes!
Know "Your who and why?"
Who are you, and why do you want to start a cidery. This is critical for a few reasons. One is that if you know who you are and why you want to do it, it makes it easier to figure out the what—like, what kind of style cider you want to make, what kind of tasting room experience do you want, etc. Another, probably the most important, is that it makes marketing and advertising that much easier—it is far easier to market your own truth than to make up some story and brand after the fact.
Whatever size production space you think you need, double it.
After mapping out production flow and get an idea of the volume of cider you anticipate making, make sure you map out your tasting room.
IF you are going to rely mostly on tasting room for your stream of income, make sure the tasting room can actually sell your volume. How many seats can you fit in your tasting room? What is the projected average ticket per customer? How many times do you anticipate turning over a seat? If you don’t have the room to sell your volume, you won’t.
CiderCon2021 February 3-5, 2021 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association
New York International Cider Competition- February 21, 2021 3rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.
Kate and Toby Lovell are raising Shropshire Sheep and Friesian Sheep at Handcocks Meadow Farm The Shropshire Sheep don’t debark trees which make them excellent for use in orchards. They also have a flock of Friesian Sheep for cheese making.
This chat was recorded at the Ross Cider Fest, based in Ross on Wye, in Herefordshire in the United Kingdom. The fest took place August 30- September 1, 2019 and has been an annual fest for the past 20 years.
I was quite taken by all the volunteers who helped set up the festival and the vendors such as Handcocks Meadow Farms.
The first conversation in this episode was at the covered sheep trailer that was set up for serving Hancocks Meadow Farm smoked lamb. Meet Harriet, David, and Sullivan who were serving up smoked lamb.
Then we talk with Toby Lovell, who was manning the oak barrel smoker.
Toby Lovell with barrel
While the barrel is closed, it is perfect for holding glasses and bottles of cider...of course Ross Cider ;)
The set up is basic and yet the outcome is exotic - leaving me hungry for the next time I come across the Lovell’s and their perfectly smoked lamb.
Pauline, Kate’s mum, makes cheese from the milk of the herd of Friesains on the farm.
Pauline and Kate using a Dutch cheese knife
Cheese scale
The final mini chat is with Albert Johnson of Ross Cider with a little help from his border collie, Norman.
And, I read a mini letter from John the cider maker at Ross Cider, who also happens to have a very long name, but for now we will call him John Edwards.
Searching for Cider’s Universal Life Force a.k.a: Ki
Of course Cider has Ki , as it is related to the Japanese martial art Aikido. It all began when four words “Bravey, Wisdom, Love and Friendship” were spoken at New York Apple Camp in the summer of 2023. Apple Historian, author and well known apple detective John Bunker was the key note speaker at camp who also happened to be quoting from a book titled “The Art of Peace’.
The book was written by Morihei Ueshiba, the Founder of Aikido, and was translated into English by John Stevens who was a student of the Founder. And it was within that book that he found those four inspiring words “Bravey, Wisdom, Love and Friendship”.
The Founder , or Ōsensei as he was lovingly spoken often of Ki and its power. In short it is a universal life force that is present in all of us and all living things, including apple trees, orchards and cider.
Mentions is This Cider Chat
We first hear John Bunker discussing how “Bravery Wisdom, Love and Friendship” can be relatable to apples and attending camp.
Then an audio ad promotion for CiderCon 2024 being held in Portland, Oregon on January 16th – 19th, 2024.
Ria’s trip to pick up fresh press apple juice at Lull Farm
American Homebrewers Association’s (AHA) has a worldwide database of over 2,200 AHA-registered homebrew clubs.- search for home brew and fermenter clubs in your area
Cider’s Ki
Club cider/cyser at pick up
12 Mar 2025
450th Roger Wilkins - The Cider King
00:52:01
Looking back at Season 9 and Forward with Roger Wilkins
In this season ending episode we visit Roger Wilkins at his Lands End Farm.
Cider King – Roger Wilkins
Roger Wilkins, is known globally as the “Cider King,” and is a legendary figure in Somerset cider-making. He has been running Wilkins' Cider Farm in Mudgley since taking over from his grandfather in 1969. Renowned for his traditional methods, Roger ferments locally grown bittersweet apples in oak barrels, producing unfiltered, unsweetened farmhouse cider. His no-nonsense style and commitment to authenticity have made Wilkins' Cider Farm a pilgrimage site for cider enthusiasts world wide.
Though he has mentioned plans to scale down production, Roger was carrying buckets of apples into the cidery when Ria visited him in October of 2024. This episode features Roger discussing the difficulty for farmers and working with what he calls “Pen Floaters”.
Season 9 Recap
Throughout this episode you will hear guest from Season 9, which started with Episode #401. From Chile, the UK, France and Eastern Europe and throughout the U.S.A., Cider Chat has featured guests who both make cider, promote cider, provide leadership for cider and enjoy cider.
With this episode 450 of Cider Chat we are showcasing the oral history of cider in 2025.
So grab a glass and Join the Chat, as we ring out one season and prepare for the next!
Mentioned in this Cider Chat
Totally Cider Tours
Cider Chat Podcast Archives – Find over 450 episodes.
Use the search bar for up top and plug in a work or name to find an episode on that topic!
Join Ria (the Producer and Host of Cider Chat) and Totally Cider for a fantastic journey to the West Country in the United Kingdom. We will visit some of the best cideries and stay in lovely accommodations for our trip. Additional days pre- or post-tour can easily be arranged.
Space is limited for this unique opportunity, so don't wait! Please follow this link for registration and payments: Register Me!
Have all day Saturday to roam about in the City of Bath, visting the Roman Baths, a High Cider Tea at our hotel or the many English Pubs!
Accommodation:
1 night • Brooks Guest House, Bristol • 4 Star
1 nights • Castle Hotel, Taunton • 4 Star
2 night • Abbey Hotel, Bath • 4 Star
2 nights • Brooks Country House, Ross on Wye • 4 Star
1 night • Brooks Guest House, Bristol • 4 Star
Meals:
Breakfasts at the hotel each morning
Ultimate Cider Experience at The Stable Restaurant, Bristol
Lunch at the Railway Inn (Thatcher’s)
Three course dinner at the Castle Hotel Taunton (private room)
Lunch at the Three Horseshoes
Packed lunch/ Picnic from Apple County Cider
Light lunch at Brooks Country House Hotel
Three course dinner in Brooks Country House (private area of restaurant)
Packed lunch provided by Brooks Country House
Detailed itinerary and a few photos to give you a taste can be found below. The tour is round trip from Bristol.
Mentions in this Chat
February 11, 2018 - New York International Beer Competition (NYISC) is accepting cider entries NOW! NYISC is using the United States Association of Cider Makers new cider categories for this competition. The judges at this competition are in the trade of buying and selling cider and thus judge the cider on it merit of taste and price point.
Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat
In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Night Before the Holiday Pressing is more than just a story—it’s a celebration of all things pome, community, tradition, and the joy that comes with every glass of cider.
The cider house hums with anticipation as Ria, Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and the Medlars prepare the night before their annual pressing. But as every year before there is always magic in the air for Ciderville. With the Talking Pommes truly anything can happen and so it does!
With snow blanketed orchards, and just the right amount of “Believe” a sleigh pulled by apples glides through the starry sky.
Raise a glass and join us on this festive adventure—because in Ciderville, the magic is always just a sip away.
Meet the Stars of the Cider House
This holiday episode of Cider Chat brings together some of Ciderville’s most delightful characters:
Apple: The vibrant leader with a twinkle in their eye.
The Medlars: Sweet, quirky, and always ready with a witty remark.
Mr. Quince: The wise and slightly stern elder who keeps everyone on track.
Perry Pear: Full of charm and flair, a natural performer.
A Wide Assortment of Pommes: From Dabinett to Kingston Black, they bring their unique personalities to the mix.
The Gift of Holiday Cider Magic
This story is for anyone who cherishes the magic of the season. As Apple says, “Every glass of cider holds a story, and this one’s for you.”
From Cider Chat to all of Ciderville, we hope this episode brings joy to your holiday season. Raise a glass, gather ‘round, and join the Talking Pommes and Ria in Ciderville!
Mentions in this Cider Chat
CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat
- Thank you Nathan for becoming a patron of Cider Chat. Nathan is part of Harcourt Apples based in Australia approximately 11/2 hours outside of Melbourne.
Audio Snap Shots from the Totally Cider Tour Monterey Bay | California, that took place April 12th and 13th.
Extended versions of a few of these audio snap shots will be posted on the Cider Chat Patreon page. Become a patron and help keep ciderGoingUP and get these exclusive audios conversations from the Totally Cider Tour to Monterey Bay, California.
Cider Flight w: Tanuki & Santa Cruz Cider Co.
Jake Mann of Five Mile Orchard
Eric and Katie Rider of Rider Ranch Cider
]
Serventi Cider Tour and Tasting
Laura Everett - Soquel Cider
Debuting “We Like Cider” a new cider anthem to sing a long with on this episode.
Alvar Roosimaa turned towards cidermaking after deciding to move out of the capital of Estonia, Tallinn. He bought a country house approximately an hour and a half to the south Tallinn with his wife Veronika.
It was at this country house that the name of the cidery was found. Alvar tells the story of finding a copper tube, which is a typical container used by Estonians for holding documents, in a rubbish pile onsite. Inside this tube the original deed of the house was placed along with a colored map of the property. The farm's name was Jannihanso! When you look at the label, you will see that the name "JanniHanso" is using the original old world German handwriting for the name
The Jaanihanso cidery started commercial actives in 2013. In 2016, this Estonian cidery began working towards exporting.
This past year (2016) they pressed enough apples to have 60,000 litters (15,850 gallons) of apple juice.
Cider Tradition in Estonia?
Cider is very traditional. Locals call it "apple wine".
Every house has a small crusher and small press that has been handed down through the generations
Jaanihanso is the first commercial operation in Estonia
Since, Jaanihanso launched there are now 2-3 other commercial enterprises taking root, where they are making cider at another location versus being orchard based. Alvar used a fun term calling these ciders "gypsy cidermakers".
Alvar uses only wild yeast for the primary fermentation.
The champagne method is used during a secondary fermentation.
Alec Steinmetz, Will Correll and Matthew Meyer are sharing their story of starting an urban cidery. This is Part 1 of what will be an ongoing story of the start-up Buskey Cider of Richmond, Virginia.
The cidermaking tanks arrived in February 2016.
5 wine tanks
4 brewing tanks, which are conical
They pitched the yeast for Buskey's first cider on March 16, 2016
2 - 30 barrels tank pitched with one strain
4- 15 barrel tanks all have different strains
3- 4.2 barrel tanks for specialty ciders
Opening date is expect in late April when they hope to be serving the first cider to the public. They are working towards a 20-24 day production time.
In 2015, there was a windfall of apples in Russian. That moment helped to catapult "The Land of Antonovka" into the cider spotlight world wide.
Episode 216 Featured guest is Alexander Ionov of Rebel Apple Cider of Moscow, Russia. This chat begins at 21:00 minutes into the episode.
How did Alex get into cidermaking?
In 2015, that windfall of apples at Alex's Dacha (summer home) outside of Moscow was a turning point. One can make only so many apple pies, so Alex began researching how to make Apple Wine,. That quest led him to cider.
Since that time, he has traveled to the US to attend CiderCon and the United Kingdom. Tom Oliver of Hereford is one of the prominent makers who has really informed Alex's cidermaking styles.
Now five years later, Alex is at the final stage of opening his cidery Rebel Apple in Moscow, in an old military base on the outskirts of the city.
Alex originally built a rack and cloth press, but has since purchased a pneumatic press.
Rebel Apple Cider - 2 current ciders
Dickey Crest, 375cl
Bride, 750ml - a base of Antonovka, cultured yeast. A wonderful aromatic cider, that is very fruit forward with a touch of tannin.
Alex Ionov
Rebel Apple Cider Tasting Room
Expect the tasting room to be open to the public once the coronavirus quarantine ends. As of this writing Alex was still waiting for permission fromThe Russian Ministry of Alcohol Beverage Department- I will post once this cidery officially opens.
Gypsy Circus Cider Company founders and makers, Stephanie & Aaron Carson, are helping to put cider on the map in Tennessee. They have two facilities with one dedicated to barrel aging ciders and the main production site which is also the location for their Gypsy Circus Taproom.
The cidery opened for business in April of 2016 and has produced over 16 ciders each with whimsical names that connect to the backdrop of their gypsy lifestyle (the couple like to travel) and to the circus life.
Names like;
Whilring Deverish - a coffee cider make with Nashville based Frothy Monkey coffee took home a gold from GLINTCAP in 2017
Shadow Puppet - a barrel aged wild cider garnered a silver medal at GLINTCAP
The Carson's pay attention to detail not only with their ciders, but also their branding. Take a look at a can of their dry cider Raindancer and listen to Aaron talk about the hidden graphics that they put on the label.
Part of the couple's success is that they are keenly aware of how the beverage market works. Aaron Carson is the author of East Tennessee Beer, the executive director for Superfly Fabulous Events, founder of Tri-Cities Craft Beer Week and Tennessee Championship of Beers. Aaron co-founded the Brewly Noted Beer Trail and started the Tri-Cities Pro Brewers Guild.
Don't forget to enter the Giveaway for 2 tickets to Cider Circus August 26, 2017 at Copper Mountain Ski Resort in Colorado http://cidercircus.com/ Enter by subscribing to eCiderNews and be automatically entered or become a Patron of Cider Chat and be entered automatically to all Cider Chat contests and giveaways.
194: The Reason for Being | Ross on Wye Cider & Perry, UK
01:03:48
Episode 194: The Reason for Being | Ross on Wye Cider & Perry, UK
Mike Johnson grew up on Broome Farm picking up apples with his grandmother, in the rural country known as Herefordshire in the United Kingdom. Thirty Five years ago cider began being made and sold commercially at the farm. More recently Mike and son Albert, who came back to the farm after finishing university to help with their brand Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company, began working together to continue to build the family's cider profile up with a huge volume of dry ciders and perrys.
Mike seeing a smiling Talking Pomme looking back up at him.
And it should be mentioned that, Albert’s younger brother, Martin is in hospitality and it looks like there is a very good possibility that he also will become a full on member of the Ross Cider Team.
Herefordshire (a county) is one of the most sparsely populated regions in England. It is about 3 hours to the west of London. It also has the largest concentration of cider apples. A good many orchards were planted to supply cider giant Bulmers at one time, something that Mike feels benefited the whole region.
The Johnson’s are no longer selling their apples to Bulmers which is now owned by Heineken. Instead, they are full on making cider for their own brand. I first had a bottle of their cider in 2015 and fell madly in love with the quality of that single bottle. It has since been my mission to drink more Ross Cider :) and meet the team, which brings us to this recording which took place in August of 2019.
Thanks to the help and encouragement of Duckchicken Cider in London and Ross Cider, I was able to spontaneously make plans to attend the 2019 Ross Cider Fest held on August 30th to September 1st. I camped in the orchard for 3 nights at this cider and music fest.
The Ross Cider Fest was originally a one day event, starting over 20 years ago. At the time Albert was a young boy. Now 24 years of age, he is full on in the management of this widely popular fest.
Cider Chat Meeting the Makers at Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company
A couple years back, Mike bought the Yew Tree Pub which is located on the main road, next to Broome Farm. This venue is now selling more cider that beer! Which is unbelievably still a unique fact in the United Kingdom for most pubs.
In this chat we discuss:
The Ross Cider Fest - Mike likens the good feelings at the festival due to the serving of natural drinks, without all the chemicals.
The Bulmers Impact
The first orchards at Broome Farm were planted for Bulmers in 1978
Between now and 2001 there are 45 acres of bush orchards
10 acres of standard trees and perry pears.
Says Mike, “The great thing about Bulmers - they are responsible for so many trees [in the region] and research.”
Cider Styles being made by Ross Cider
Bottle condition
Still
Carbonated
Kegged
I particularly liked how Mike described the cider styles at Ross. Typically, makers separate their styles as sweet, semi sweet and dry. At Ross Cider they don't like sweet or sugary cider. They make their cider and perry dry. At any given time they might have 87 different kinds of cider to try. Some are blends, but most are single or two varieties of apples.
While I was there Albert said they had 18 single variety ciders. He says, “It might be less complex [a single variety cider] but, it takes you on a journey to discover what a cider apple can do.
Mike adds, “Grab a bunch of single varieties and open them all at once, with friends, and then start blending.”
Says Albert, “We’d be bored if we had to drink the same cider all year.”
This is the unique quality of these makers that makes this cidery so special. Each single variety cider allows you to truly discover the essence of that apple. It does take you on a journey and it is one that many cider drinkers have yet to discover.
If you can, do attend the Ross Cider Fest held every year at the end of the summer. And by the way, these makers won were awarded the BBC Food and Farming for 2019!
Contact Info for Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company
Ok, so maybe I'm not full on fishing this week, but if I get a chance you know where I will be - out on the water with my fishing pole...actually the heat is so high this week that maybe I will just take a floaty and leave the pole home. Cider Chat will return with another mini episode on July 7th.
Find out in this episode what I have been doing since episode 277 and where we will be going next!
Meanwhile down by the Fishing Hole
There are nearly 300 episodes for your listening pleasure at the Cider Chat archive pages https://ciderchat.com/podcast/
Cider won big at the 23rd Annual Home-brew Competition held in Boston and put on by the Wort Processors - a home-brew club. Tom Bell’s New World Cider won both Best in Show for cider and placed 3rd in the Best Overall in Show. This means that Tom’s winning cider was placed in the final competition for Best Overall with 37 winning beers.
Best of Show Winners Circle
1st Maurice Dalton’s - Gueze
2rd Matthew Border - German Pils
3rd Tom Bell - New World Cider
4th Brett Smith : Chocolate Raspberry Milk Stout
Honorable Mention - Peter Bowers: Specialty Wood Aged
Tom’s cidermaking tools & techniques for this cider
A garbage disposal for grinding up apples
Added Pectin Aid
Macerated the pressed apples for 24 hours
Pressed in a basket press
Wild yeast - then EC118 for the bottle fermentation
Initial gravity: 1.064
Racked every 10 point drop in the gravityand to separate the cider from the lees
Everything was going great until a Pectic Haze showed up
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
A sit down Cider Chat with the makers behind Worleys and Honey’s Cider!
Neil Worley was last on this podcast back in 2016 on episode 26! He and Ria met up at CiderCon which was being held that year in Portland Oregon. Neil’s episode on Keeving, a basic how-to, has been a perennical favorite for listeners. Kimberly Jones took over Honey’s Cider in 2019 for Bob Honey. Both makers are based in Somerset and each have their own unique style and approach to making Cider.
Neil and Kim
Craft Ciders Made at Worley and Honey’s
Worley Cider:
Special Reserve Keeved Cider – winner of the Golden Fork award
Neil and Kim have observed a shift in cider preferences, with still ciders flourishing outdoors. Neil’s experiments in keeving and controlled oxidation highlight the scientific precision he applies to cider making. Meanwhile, Kim is expanding Honey’s range with blends tailored to local heritage.
How to find Worleys and Honey’s Cider
Visit the Froome Independent Market from March to December on the first Sunday of each month for a chance to taste their creations.
CiderCon2025Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat
In Part 1 of "Cider Ignites NYC" we chat with New York Cidermakers and enthusiasts who are attending Hidden Stars, a cider fest held during NYC Cider Week 2017.
First up is Kyle Sherrer of Graft Cider in Newburgh New York known for making wild ferment “sour” ciders (that Sidra lovers adore) more accessible to fans of cider - read: packaging in cans.
Congratulations to Graft Cider for celebrating a 1 year anniversary on October 31, 2017.
Next we chat with Dylan who was pouring for Naked Flock Hard Cider Experience Dylan shares the fun, background story behind the naked goose on the label and an upcoming event!
Danielle von Scheiner, who was on Cider Chat episode 35, is the cidermaker and owner of Big Apple Hard Cider. Danielle shares with us how she is sending all the proceeds from her “Soho Cider” to Gods Love We Deliver a New York non profit with the mission ofimproving “the health and well-being of men, women and children living with HIV/AIDS, cancer and other serious illnesses by alleviating hunger and malnutrition. They prepare and deliver nutritious, high-quality meals to people who, because of their illness, are unable to provide or prepare meals for themselves. We also provide illness-specific nutrition education and counseling to our clients, families, care providers and other service organizations.”
Find Big Apple Hard Cider at The Ear Inn, NYC oldest continuously pub since 1817.
Then we get a to hear from Cider Enthusiasts attending Hidden Stars as they let us know about their cider drinking history and what exactly they would like to learn more about cider.
Mentions is this Chat
LA Amateur Wine Competition -http://cellarmastersla.org/ and the rules and info are all right on the homepage. The deadline says 11/11/17, but that will be extended as it gets closer. You can pay online or send a check with your entries. Let your cider club know as well!
331: Bodacious Ciders, Cookbook & Treats | Carr's Ciderhouse, MA
00:57:10
Nicole Blum of Carr's Ciderhouse will be one of 6 celebrated women in cider speaking at the November 5th Cider Dinner at Hawks and Reed Performing Arts Center. Tickets for the Cider Dinner go live on September 3, 2022. Sign up now for eCiderNews to get emailings to Early Ticket Release dates.
Wild & Tame Apples of Carr's Ciderhouse
Jonathan Carr and Nicole Blum
Nicole Blum and Jonathan Carr's first date was at a Creperie in San Franciso and as fate planned it, they drank cider. The two live in Ireland for a bit, where Jonathan was born for a spell and even planted a a few apple trees. Fate again had other plans and they found their way back to the states to settle in Hadley, Massachusetts. There they have both a working farm, what they call "Preservation Orchard" at Carr's Ciderhouse and a large rack and cloth press in the barn overlooking the Connecticut River Valley.
In this Chat with Nicole and Jonathan
Value added products at Carr's Ciderhouse
Cider Syrup
Shrubs
Switchel
Berries
Chestnut trees
Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)
Their Ciderhouse Cookbook: 127 Recipes That Celebrate the Sweet, Tart, Tangy Flavors of Apple Cider
268: Cider Canada | North America's Newest Association
00:37:47
Cider Canada / Cidre Canada
Barry Rooke knows that the Canadian cider market is growing and believes in it so much that he and his partner Wendy co-founded The Cider Crate, a website that hosts their blog, a map of cidermakers in Canada, a podcast. His full time work is as Executive Director - National Campus/Community Radio Association and he is also an accredited member of the Canadian Society of Association Executives!
Suffice to say, Barry has the tools at hand to help build an association from the ground up!
Building Cider Canada
Barry shares the baseline steps for building an association
Interim President and Board
Bylaws
Membership
Website and Social Media
By the Fall this burgeioning association hopes to hold its first of what should be an Annual General Meeting.
Cider Canada / Cidre Canada
This multi lingual country with the province of Quebec speaking predominantly French Canadian is why the association is choosing both spelling for the associaton on its logo.
Barry discusses 4 General Apple Regions to consider
Atlantic -soft and sweet profile.
Quebec - more tannic and acid forward
Ontario - Brighter, higher alcohol
Okanagan Valley, British Columbia - more minerality
Though we only discussed 4, I do believe there are more and as time goes on each province will hone into their regions terroir further.
398: Cider in Florida? Visit Green Bench Brewing, Mead & Cider
01:04:26
Saint Peterburg on Florida’s West Coast Welcomes Green Bench
Green Bench can boast being a microbrewery, meadery, and cidery in a region where palm trees rule! Despite that small inconvenience of no apples trees to speak of growing in Florida, maker Brian Wing has been rolling out the cider barrels since 2015. Green Bench itself has been producing select beers beginning in 2013.
Brian Wing
In this Cider Chat with Maker Brian Wing
Fermenting in Florida. Where is the production facility located. (Webb’s City Cellar?)
How did this all come about? Brewing begins in 2013 then 6 yrs later (2019) cider & mead.
Brian’s journey to cider
What are the challenges of cider making in FL (resourcing from…NY…)
Who are the cider fans in St. Peterburg and the surrounding area. Has this changed since you opened and if so, how.
Training of staff to pour and discuss cider – loved how you were planning for this on the tour
What can guest expect when visiting.
Is there a flagship cider that one should try first?
Malus is the Flagship cider – try this one first!
Cider styles and techniques
Fermenting with fruits from Florida for co-ferments
Florida honey ferments
Filtering using a centrifuge
Barrel program
Cider Tasted During this Interview
Chaconne
A dry cider made by Green Bench Brewing Company. It’s made with Wickson Crab, Yates, and Harrison apples, and has an ABV of 6.4%
428: Winchester Ciderworks: English Inspiration and Virginia Apples
00:45:26
From Suffolk to Virginia: Stephen Schuurman’s Cider Journey
In Episode 428 of Cider Chat, we meet Stephen Schuurman, owner and cider maker at Winchester Ciderworks in Winchester, Virginia. Originally from Suffolk, England, Stephen has brought his deep love of English cider to the northern portion of the Shenandoah Valley. What started as a passion project has grown into a successful business, blending English cider-making techniques with Virginia-grown apples.
Ciders tasted in this Episode
At Winchester Ciderworks, the focus is on producing hard ciders that are not overly sweet nor dry ciders. Expect a wide range of cider offerings and the option for a tasting flight at the Ciderhouse or go directly to the flagship cider, Malice.
Malice is a classic, off-dry cider with a clean, crisp finish and just the right amount of residual sugar. Made with a blend of Virginia apples. At 6.5% ABV, it’s sessionable and easy-drinking — perfect for enjoying with friends or pairing with a meal.
522, a cider infused with black currant. Named after the road where Winchester Ciderworks was originally located, this cider blends the tartness of black currants with the brightness of local Virginia apples. At 5.9% ABV
Support Cider Chat and Keep the Stories Flowing
If you’re a fan of learning about the stories behind great cider makers like Stephen Schuurman, consider supporting Cider Chat. Your donations help keep the podcast on the air, allowing us to continue sharing stories from the world of cider. To help us continue to bring you these amazing episodes, hit the donate button at CiderChat.com.
317: How a "Cyder" Teapot fueled the American Revolution
00:56:01
Cider’s back story behind the American Revolution
In the 1700s ceramic teapots were the political bumper stickers of the day! In this episode we hear about the Cyder Act teapot that the Museum of the American Revolution located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania has just acquired. The museum’s Curator of Collections, Mark Turdo, tells us how the British based uprisings against the over reaching Cyder Act played a pivotal role in the American Revolution – in that they help to teach American how to protest! Placing your dissent on teapots was an obvious protest and that is exactly what the Cyder Pot helped to teach!
In these modern time uprising against tyranny happens on a daily basis, but colonist in the New World were dedicated to the crown and it was unheard of to revolt…That is until they began seeing English cidermakers revolt against taxation when the Cyder Act was introduced.
These ceramic Cyder Act Pots were made in England and displayed in homes, but their symbolism was far reaching. Taxation’s heavy hand was being push back and that alone was monumental forward thinking!
right side of Liberty Teapot
The Stamp Act in America Gets Repealed
Great Britain was on the hunt for more revenue and the Stamp Act was their ticket in the New World. It was set up to stamp a duty (tax) on newspapers and legal and commercial documents. Thanks to the models of resistance displayed by the British cidermakers and their Cyder Act Teapots, Americans saw that they too could revolt against taxation!
The Stamp Act never gained footing and was repealed a year after it was introduced. This is all to say that the path to freedom and independence from tyranny is not always a straight forward path. The Cyder Act Pot is a perfect example of a monumental sidebar lesson that helped fuel the American Revolution!
InciderJapan– Japan’s first and only bilingual magazine dedicated to all things cider
13 Nov 2019
200 Cheers for #ciderGoingUP
00:58:50
#ciderGoingUP is a favored hashtag that I have been using since the first year of this podcast, so it was a natural title for this milestone episode number 200.
Some podcasters pod fade (end their shows quietly and never return), I on the other hand have plenty of episode cued up and ready to share - so this episode 200 is really just the beginning of more good cider cheer.
As usual the Talking Pommes add their two cents here and there and Cider Chat fans share their rendition of the cider song “We Like Cider”.
The featured chat is a conversation with The Nose begins at 18 minutes in and helped direct this conversation as we looked back over Season 4 and to the future in 2020.
Topics discussed with “The Nose”
How our palate changes. One day we may want sweet and then the next day we embrace a “barnyard” style.
Find t-shirt, hoodies, kids clothing and even smart phone cover cases with catchy cider sayings like:
Marie Tanaka atWine Styles Incwill share a summary of Cider Chat episodes in her blog, in Japanese on her blog. I will post the link once Marie’s posts go live!
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg. Look for the new Ice Cider "Meadow Orchard" made with a blend of Erbachhofer, Trierer Weinapfel, and Rambo apples
inCiderJapan, Japan’s only bilingual magazine for all things cider. Get a subscription!
Bartosz Gałka is one of three partner at the Polish cidery "Slow Flow Group". Along with Łukasz Sobór, Jakub Lorek and Jakub's father,Marcin Lorek, who makes wine and consults to this project they are helping to put Polish cider on the world map. The cidermaking tradition in Poland dates back to the 16th century, but is only recently gearing up once again..
Slow Flow Group has been making cider since 2011 and marketing it since 2014. It took 2 years to get permitted to sell cider in Poland.
I met up with Bartosz in Asturias, Spain in September of 2016 while we were both attending the International Hall of Gala Ciders.
Slow Flow Group is using apples from local orchards, with most of the trees being 70-80 years old. There is no sugar nor sulfites added to this company's ciders.
The primary Apples used by Slow Flow Group:
Grochówka
Kronselka
Szara - Złota Reneta
starking
Pepina
Malinówka
Pinowa
Antonówka
They press apples using a Hydraulic press called "Big Mama" which is a basket press
Polish terms in cider and spelling
Cider in Poland is spelled "Cydr" or Jabłecznik
Kupaż - to blend cider also written as "coupage"
The Polish Craft Cider Association is: Polskie Cydry Autorskie
Where to find Slow Flow Group's ciders:
Selling locally to wine bars and "good" restaurants, and
Czech Republic
Slovakia
and exploring Northern Spain
Bartosz says, that there "Is a Tasting Room" at the cidery.
Paul Zocco, of Zok’s Homebrewing and Winemaking, is a 12 time winner of the title “New England Cidermaker of the Year” and he is discussing cider recipes and trends in this episode.
Paul Zocco, New England Cidermaker of the Year with Ria
Paul has been running Zok’s Homebrewing and Winemaking Shop for the past 16 years. Over that time he has seen a growth of the homebrew shift from beer to cider grow exponentially.
In this episode, Paul chats...
Pasteurized versus not pasteurized apple juice
How to choose sweet cider from a cider mill
...Go to the cider mill and buy a pint of the fress pressed juice. Go out to the parking lot and try it. If it is good, go back and make a deal to buy 5 gallons. It is simple as that.
What does Paul uses to chop up his apples?
Answer: A machete
Paul chats about Angry Orchard, Woodchuck and their sweet ciders…and the benefit for new drinkers of cider.
Listen to Paul describe how to make classic New England Cider:
Utrecht cider importer Margot Sanderse brings in ciders from the UK and Wales via her mobile bar and online shop Het Ciderhuis. She is an entrepreneur who is touting cider to the Dutch and slowly helping transform their palate.
Margot Sanderse | Het Ciderhuis
Utrecht is between 30-40 minutes from Amsterdam, and is a bustling arts city.
Den Haag is best known for its International Court of Justice, and because of the presence of so many international embassies, it is also a hot spot for food and drinks.
Margot recommended in The Hague the following 2 bars serving cider.
The Club de Keet where this recording took place is no longer open – Massi is still in Amsterdam and the big hare that was this dive bars namesake: was named Keet
Cider Investment and Development through Excise Tax Reduction (CIDER) Act (H.R. 600) was introduced by Representatives Earl Blumenauer democratic and Chris Collins. a republican from New York state’s 27th congressional district and democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York who sponsored the CIDER Act (S. 1459).
Which goes to show you that Cider unites both major parties in the US. Woot woot! And we all know that a good chat is time well spent.
Do know that this is a Tax legislation thing – that business minded people work towards to help reduce the tax burden.
Prior to this Act cider that was carbonated by the cidermaker or naturally (as in bottle conditioned) could be taxed at the champagne rate of 3.30 or 3/40/gallon if the carbonation level was too high.
Yikes! Imagine being a small batch cidermaker and finding the most delicious cider that you have ever made is now going to be so expensive that only us nerd cider drinkers will buy it.
so the CIDER Act has increased the carbonation level for hard cider! woot woot
And it now includes pears in the definition of “hard cider”
I am not sure what the pears think about that – I think – apple trees and pear tree could give a hoot about our human taxations.
And now cider is has boosted it’s alcohol by volume (ABV) to surpass 7%. It now has the range of at least 1% and 8.5%. Lets just hope the big chemical companies don’t get involved and start making apple tree hybrids on steroids that boost sugar content.
In all it was a boom for cider in the US.
Personally, I like both still and sparkling cider. It is all good. And quite exciting.
It is now up to the cidermakers to run with this new Act and continue to grow as an industry overall And for cider consumers to let the cidermakers know what you want. I am sure as the new year and years to come we will be re-visiting his topic. In all it is a new playing field and quite exciting.
12 Feb 2020
212: Northeastern Cider Conference~Scoop!
00:42:44
The Northeastern Cider Conference will take place March 24, 25, 26, 2020 in Albany, NY.
Register now - Get group discount for Hotel now through February
Tuesday March 24th begins with a kick off with a opening toast and reception with a cider share.
Prevention & Correction of Sulfur-Off Odors in Cider Production was presented by Rebecca deKramer, cider specialist at Scott Laboratories at CiderCon2018.
Become an eCiderNews subscriber to download the Power Point Presentation that goes along with this presentation. Click download
This chat begins at approximately 9 minutes in.
Rebecca presents on the following topics
Defining Sulfur-Off Odors
Causes of Sulfur-Off Odors
Methodologies for preventing Sulfur-Off Odor formation
Methodologies for correcting Sulfur-Off Odors
What kind of strains of yeast to use
Temperature for fermentation
How much yeast to use?
Chemical Elements impacting cider
Sulfur - H2S (hydrogen sulfur)
mercaptans from by the break down of certain amino acids
if they oxidize, Dimethyl sulfide (DMS) or methylthiomethane is an organosulfur compound with the formula (CH3)2S can be produced. DMS is aromatic and can not easily be removed by copper - Rebekka speaks on the use of copper to remove specific odors
The first thing to do for off odor - sulfur
aireate
the most simplest technique to control off odors?
Rack cider off of the gross lees
If at the end of fermentation the cider is producing off odors, "simply stirring the gross lees into solution can help."
Most common factor contributing to sulfur off odors?
the yeast being stressed
Rebekka's recommendation - "Have happy yeast. If you have happy yeast, you will have a good fermentation. If you have unhappy yeast they will make your life hell."
Orchards that use a sulfur based spray for orchard control. Depending upon the timing of the spray it could leave residual copper on the apple, that can affect the cider.
Additional cider and cider yeast considerations
The more clarified or concentrated the juice will affect the fermentation as it will have less nutrients for the yeast.
Canning cider can make cider suspectible to oxygen
as can some screws caps
24:16 - Fermentation
Indigenous Fermentations or using wild yeast. Rebekka recommends management via nutrient control, because you do not know what yeast is in the driver seat. "It is a leap of faith"
Commercial Pitch - there are numerous options, but make sure to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
If you have no temperature control for fermentation, avoid yeast that require temperature control.
Do not under inoculate. The chances are high that you will have a stressed yeast if you do not follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
rehydrate dry yeast before pitching - to nurture a happy yeast environment
Treat as soon as you start smelling an off flavor
Use the Penny Test for finding H2S.
Drop a 1984 or earlier penny into a glass of cider and see if it removes the H2S.
will H2s or a mercaptan
It responds instantly.
If it doesn't respond Rebekka says that the cider is likely in a desulfite form treat with asorbic acid to reduce
John Edwards - Chemical Fingerprints in Cider presented at CiderCon2018 will be posted soon - Stay tuned. John's business: Process and Analytical NMR Services
Ask for the following cideries and businesses- By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
Enjoy this special talk with a tasting of select co-ferments from New York Apple Camp 2023. Hear the discussion on techniques, flavors, and challenges. This talk was hosted by:
Dan Pucci, author of "American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage" (2021)
Matt Sanford, head cider and wine maker at Rose Hill Farm, New York
Matt Sanford and Dan Pucci
Co-ferments in this tasting
All co-ferments where made in New York.
Blackduck CideryAronius: A unique co-ferment consisting of 92% apples and 8% Aronia berries, which lend a tannic profile to the glass.
Rose Hill CiderPomme Cerise 2020 & 2021 blend | 20% sweet and sour cherries and 80% apples, this blend showcases the layering of flavors over time.
Mentioned - Rose Hill CiderPearly Dewdrops' traditional fermented drink made of plums. Cuvée with carbonically macerated Shiro, Early Golden, Oblinaya and Satsuma plums, cherries and nectarines that are blended with apple cider. Dark, resinous fruit flavor buoyed by an invigorating sparkle, this is the stonefruit equivalent to a dry, rustic Lambrusco. Wild years fermentation, no filtering or fining, finished in bottle without additives.
Metalhouse CiderTazza: A co-ferment of cabernet Franc skins that resembles wine in smell and taste but lacks the body of wine. It exudes a piquette-like vibe, combining Macoun and Macintosh apple juice with the robustness of Cab Franc.
Rose Hill CiderChiffonner 9% ABV: Comprising 25% Roxybury Russet, 25% Ashmead's Kernel, and 50% Riesling. This unique blend sits in stainless for six months and another year in neutral oak. If it's not solely made of apples, Rose Hill labels it as wine.
When should a ferment be labeled cider vs. wine? Matt Sanford shares Rose Hill's approach.
- The debate continues: Are co-ferments undermining cider?
- Ultimately, co-ferments could serve as a gateway to the world of cider for many and with Matt making and other makers show casing what can be done, the future is bright for this category.
For a comprehensive dive into co-ferments and to expand your cider palate, tune in to Cider Chat's Episode 379.
046: Going to CiderDays | Insider Tips, Massachusetts
00:58:35
With a bit of history on the oldest Cider Fest in the US held the 1st weekend of November
CiderDays (yes it has always been spelled as one word) was founded in 1994, by Judith and Terry Maloney or West County Cider in Colrain, Massachusetts. Listen to their son West County's cidermaker in 001: Field Maloney | West County Cider, MA USA
CiderDays is always held on the first weekend of November. For many years, it was a one day event. It took a few years, but before we knew it CiderDays became a two days and then three days.
This podcast chat provides insider tips on traveling to CiderDays, places to stay, where to get cider and off beaten tips for this region. 047: Attending CiderDays provides info 2016's schedule, that chat goes live on September 21, 2016.
Where you can get supplies to make your own cider or buy cider to take home.
Tip: Place your order for cider supplies now - especially yeast!
Beerology this is a brand new store and it will be open by CiderDays 2016 (Northampton, MA)
Pine Hill Apple Orchard (Colrain, MA) also has a retail outlet with some cidermaking supplies and they sell bulk cider on CiderDays (usually 3-4 large cider blends so bring your carboys and barrels).
Let's begin with a bit of history;
The first CiderDays began as a one day event on the first saturday of November, the year was 1994. It has been held on the first weekend of November every year since.
Of course the Maloney's didn't do this all alone, but they were certainly the catalyst. Local orchards like Pine Hill, Clarkdale Fruit Farm, the now closed Greenwood Orchard in Northfield, which I regretfully say had one of the most amazing assortment of cider trees around along with a beautiful old press was sold after the owner just couldn't sustain the lack of interest in apples. Ug! Some of those trees are still there shrouded in vines. That orchard sold to folks who don't care about apples. It happens.
You can now stop in at so many more orchards to get a jug of cider or buy pear juice at Clarkdale for instance. Many sell fresh apples - pears and you can also enjoy a walk in the orchard.
One of the main source for CiderDays volunteers was Valley Fermenters, consider to be the oldest homebrew club in the US. I am a member and as such I gladly volunteered to go out to a cider house in the region and stand ready with carboy, airlock and sweet cider to provide a demo on cidermaking.
At the end of the day, we all congregated at the building next to Pine Hill which has since been turned into a residence. It was there that West County use to have a tasting room. A few of use showed up and Judith and Terry would provide a big round of cheese and we would all bring out our own bottles of cider. The chatter would grow louder and louder and eventually Judith would stand up on a chair and thank the group and do a toast. Little did we know that that after party would eventually turn in to the two session Cider Salon that is sold out every year.
In 1998, I was invited to the after after party/dinner at the Maloney's. Their home is tucked up high onCatamount Hill. A catamount is another name for a mountain lion. There are many sightings of these big cats and just as many denials by the Fish and Wildlife department in Massachusetts. Driving north of Pine Hill Orchard in Colrain, make sure to look to the right as you go down a long steep and I mean steep hill. You'll want to shift down and slow a bit, not only because of the hill but to see the beautiful life size metal shadow figure that is mounted on the side of the rocky hill that was cut in the form of a mountain lion. If you see it, you too can say that you saw a Catamount!
I certainly passed the lion on my way to the Maloneys, when I was invited to attend their special CiderDays after after dinner party with local apple farmers like Ben Clark of Clarkdale Orchard and Dave Shear of Pine Hill Orchard. Along with Paul Correnty who was the chef for many years at the Cider Dinner, up until the Maloney's and the other organizers realized that a larger community dinner made sense for CiderDays. Paul is quick to a smile and also the author of The Art of Cidermaking (1998).
Published in 1998, it was the first book I ever owned at the time on cidermaking and by the way he spelled cidermaking as one word.
In that book are photos taken of local orchards that are still to this day involved in CiderDays.
It was at that first dinner I attend, likely in 1998 cuz Paul was sitting next to me on a milk crate as there were no more chairs. We sat at a long table, with candles illuminating lots of cider smiles, bottles and jugs of cider and good conversation. It was then that I proclaimed out loud that I would really like to help promote apples and cider. And so I did, with many subsequent writes ups and features in Brewing News. I wrote the obituary for Terry Maloney when we lost him due to an industrial accident while working in his cidery in 2010. I had to really work hard to convince the editors to let me have space for cider in the well known beeriodical Brewing News, but they relented and now just this year all the writers for Yankee Brew News were told that they could put cider news in their regular beer column.
I'm not precise on the date, but soon I was the only person teaching cidermaking at CiderDays. For about two years in a row, I did a demo on saturday and sunday. I'm posting a photo of me taken at the saturday event that was held back when the old brick building in Colrain was used. I remember seeing Terry watching me and then saw Mike Beck standing way in the back…I think shaking his head.
I had brought along a big jug and bottles to share. I'm a bit of a rogue cidermaker and at the time didn't give a hoot about specific gravity or the science. Mike, probably thought I was crazy and he'd be right. But I also thought what up with this cidery from Michigan that is encasing their bottles is lime green? Of course that has changed, but back then - it was pretty wiggy branding for Uncle John's.
I taught cidermaking for the first 16 years of that event, but as my professional work as an international consultant in curriculum and crisis intervention became more demanding I had to pull back. Between 2008 and 2012 I was only able to do my demo at New Salem Preserves and that was about it. I barely had time to make my own cider, and as a result the quality in most recents years really declined. Which leads me to say,"Yes getting sweet cider to ferment is easy to do. The work of nurturing and paying attention to the cider once you get it rolling requires time and a bit of skill".
I suspect I will get back to it and certainly will make cider this year, but not the same volume that I use to make. My cider is now the voice of many around the world chatting about what you and I love to sip and savor.
There are more stories to tell and I plan on collecting those during this coming CiderDays, so if you have one, please don't be shy. I want to hear your tales if you have ever attend Ciderdays and would like to share a special moment for this amazing event - or leave me a message on this site via Speakpipe!
Overview of chat tips and mentions
Franklin County is located in Western Ma - which is 75 miles to the west of Bos.
Folks can fly into Logan airport, Manchester Airport in New Hampshire, the Providence Rhode Island airport and Bradley Field Airport in Ct.
Any of these airports will drop you into a region where you can plot your own map to CiderDays.
If you are traveling west on Route 2, pick up cidermaking supplies at NFG Home Brew Supply Shop. They are open thursday 3-8, friday 9-2 and saturday from 10 - 3.
I would recommend Bradley Field, mainly because it is the closest, super easy to get around, with lots of choices for local hotels - and some nearby Beer stops with tasting rooms - note there aren't that many cider hotspots.
Its an easy one hour drive up interstate 91 to Franklin county.
Or take Route 75 north and into Agawam and stop at Kaptain Jimmy's. They are part of the Opa Opa Brew Label (yes this is owned by two greek brothers who came to the US with nothing more than a blanket) and they have built up a big beer empire locally. I like this place because they have great food, big pours and a distillery on site. Easy stop, affordable and on you go.
Then pop on route 57 and it will take you back to Interstate 91 or go along the mighty Connecticut River and follow Route 5 all the way.
That will drop you right smack into Northampton Massachusetts, where Smith College is located. As you are entering town on Pleasant Street you will see to your right Beerology at 324 Pleasant. This is a new home brew supply store own by husband and wife team Mike Schilling and Jordana Starr.
I am going to record a Cider Chat at Beerology on Friday November 4th with Ellen Cavalli of Tilted Shed Cider in California and maybe Darlene Hayes too. They are both traveling together. You can listen to my chat with Darlene by going to episode 18.
Stop in and get your supplies at Beerology on the way in as they are really stoked to share their wealth of knowledge.
Northampton is a college town and a very eclectic city with excellent coffee shops, beer bars, like The Foundry, Dirty Truth, and Sierra Grille. The Sierra Grille has two dedicated cider taps. And I am talking with O'Brain Tomlin (who by the way is actor Susan Sarandon's brother - cool right) he is a great dude in his own right believe me and he loves to talk about food. I expect he will be doing a cider menu that weekend, so stay tuned for last minute tips as we get closer to CiderDays.
As you are rolling north on Route 5 out of Northampton you can stop in at Beer and Winemaking Supplies Inc - also a homebrew shop, incase you forgot some critical items like a carboy or a food grade plastic 5 gallon bucket to get some unpasteurized sweet juice that weekend.
Also, this stretch of road has a bunch of gas stations and further up on Route 5 you can hop back on Interstate 91 and sail north or if you decide to take the back way you will pass Big Y grocery store and then River Vally Market - which has a nice selection of food and a bit of cider.
From here you are about 20 minutes to Greenfield and Franklin County.
Franklin county spans both sides of the Connecticut River.
There is a spectacular view at Mount Sugarloaf which is a State Park. I don't think you will be able to drive up this late in the season, but there is a nice hike that would take an hour of your time to get up and down. Here they filmed a Mel Gibson motion picture a couple years back now. Whatever…and many folks travel here to view the Ct River. You can see all the way south to Springfield.
There is a great hike up the road, but I recommend taking the trail with its switchbacks and views along the way and then coming back down the road. Believe me it is worth it.
You can then drive north from Sugar Loaf and pass into South Deerfield. that will take you back to Route 5 and in no time you will be in Old Deerfield. There are two big attractions right in South Deerfield, Yankee Candle which is a trippy tourist area, but it has lots of restrooms and a restaurant and then also the Butterfly museum.
There is also a Red Roof Inn right off the highway here. This is not a bad location to land after a busy day, because you can fly right up the highway and manever about pretty easily from this spot. It is about a 10 minute drive up the road to downtown Greenfield.
Deerfield Academy is located in the Heart of Old Deerfield or Historic Deerfield as some prefer to call it. This is where a lot of events have taken place over the years for CiderDays at the White Church, where we also hold our monthly Valley Fermenters meeting on the second thursday of every month.
There is a ton of history here to see. A world class museum and the Deerfield Inn, if you have the bucks to stay here, they do have a very nice restaurant and the location is perfect for many CiderDays events.
If you are just driving through this town you will see a ton of old New England homes and the Sheldon Hatchet Door. It is the original door that was there when during a very bloody 1704 Raid on the town. Check the link provided to find more info.
Swing up north on Route 5 and soon you will be in Downtown Greenfield. Stop in at Seymour a beer bar, that I know will have cider on hand - I expect they will be having a bit of a cidercentric selection all weekend. I will be there on friday night post Darlene Hayes talk across the street. Watch for my tweets on last minute updates on events and meetups on my twitter feed @ciderchat
If you are looking for lodging during your stay check out Airbnb and also some of the fine Bnb's There are a bunch of selections.
There is also a Hampton Inn, a Days Inn in Greefield. You might be caught having to look south in Amherst and Hadley for lodging or even Northampton. But don't worry, it is all pretty darn drivable and as this is considered the 5 college area there are lots of cheap darn good eats to find too. I use Hotels.com to peruse the reviews and make the best selection and recommend the same to you.
As I said earlier Franklin County covers a very wide area. You will hear folks calling the hill towns of Colrain and Shelburne Falls " West County" and some think this is the Berkshires, but in the end it is all still Franklin County.
Do know there is lodging also in Shelburne Falls and out this way on Route 2, which is also called the Mohawk Trail. In Shelburne Falls, you have to see the Bridge of Flowers, which was an old trolley track that is now adorn with flowers and lovely to walk year round.
This town has also been used for filming major motion pictures like the Judge and Labor Day.
But I know it as a great place to walk about and get a good bite to eat, view the Pothole area south of the bridge that connects Shelburne Falls and Buckland across the river and get a cone of ice cream before heading home.
Recommended hike in Shelburne area: High Ledges (approximately 1 hour back and forth)
While you are up at High Ledges, you will pass by a sign that says Wheel-View Farm. This is also a cidery and has a Tasting Room. Check with their webpage to find timing.
Coming up from Northampton or Pittsfield, Ashfield's Elmer Store serves food and has wifi.
Help Support Cider Chat's (Ria's) trip to the International Hall of Gala Ciders. I am sure I won't have this trip paid off for a while and every little bit counts. Please donate today.
Donate to Cider Chat! Help keep the chat thriving!
10 Feb 2016
017: Got Juice? | Apple Juice Supplier, US to UK
00:54:30
Getting the right blend or single variety juice to make the perfect cider is part of every business plan for cideries both in the startup phase an ongoing. If you are not growing your own orchard, getting apple juice could be a real constraint – Thus these chats with two juice suppliers.
In this Cider Chat on Juice Merchants
At the 2016 CiderCon , two chats were recorded with global suppliers of juice. We wanted to find out what is happening both in the US and globally.
Are orchards seeing the current cider market vital enough to plant trees that produce cider apples?
What are the steps one would have to take to get juice from orchard to your cidery whether it is located in a tucked away island or in the middle of a city?
You may find the answers in this episode surprising. And may they charge you up enough to let your local orchards or large apple suppliers know that
“Yes we want cider apple juice!
What are the top 5-6 varieties grown in Washington State? or 85% of the market.
Vivian Lee of Luck Rabbit Snacks a gluten free snack option and Ria of Cider Chat
18 Oct 2017
099: Cider, Ètretat, & WWII | Normandy, France
00:56:54
Vincent Godefroy is one smart cidermaker located in Normandy France. He saw the opportunity to entice tourist visiting the nearby famous white cliffs of Ètretat to his cidery. Vincent and Marie-Clarie Godefroy have a full service cider destination offering lodging for two adults in a wooden barrel see photos at ciderchat.com
The Godefroy's welcome over 5000 visitors each year to an area that is dominated by flax and rye farms. They produce over 50,000 bottles of cider each year, selling half of those bottles at their gift shop and the other half within a 30 kilometer radius of their cidery.
What to pair with Vincent's ciders?
The blue label is an extra dry and is best served with seafood
The semi dry goes well with the local cheese Neufchâtel
Contact info for Ecomusee de la Pomme et du Cidre
Owners and Makers: Vincent et Marie-Claire Godefroy
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24 Oct 2018
151: The Sweet and Sour Side of Cider Podcasting
00:57:07
Dave Carr makes cider using wild yeast and oak barrels (primarily). Raging Cider and Mead is based in San Marcos, California, which is about 15 minutes in land from Oceanside and based in San Diego County, California.
Dave Carr
Raging is an urban cidery with an orchard based twist, which means Dave is bringing apples from the mountain region to the east and pressing it on site at the San Marcos location.
What can you expect from apples that are dry farmed? Read: no irrigation, hot weather, dry climate.
Expect a very high brixs, which relates to a dense amount of sugar lending a potential for a quite high alcohol by volume with the cider made.
Raging Cider in short
100% wild ferment
Dave does not rack the cider off its lees.
He leaves what would be called the gross lees in the barrel. Using the technique called Bâtonnage he will then work with the lees stirring it in through out the ferment and while it is conditioning and some of the barrels he leaves the cider to ferment in place on top of the lees.
What to expect at the Tasting Room
You will see a wall with around 24 barrels of cider
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
141: Cider Lunch at Heartwood Farm & Cidery | Ontario
01:10:43
Val Steinmann and Brent Klassen moved from the city to the 42 acre farm that is now called Heartwood Farm and Cidery in 2004. In the past 14 years, they created pasture and now have a herd of 20 cows each summer. They have planted an orchard and raised pigs, chickens and have two work horses.
Val inspired the family to worked towards a “regenerative farm” and in short order Brent got into orchard care with nut trees and maple trees and of course soon enough apples and cider making.
Kat Scott came on board in 2017 and is also on this chat.
This recording was made while I was touring Ontario cideries with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider. We recorded this conversation during lunch at the farmhouse - and it is an absolute pleasure to share a piece of that day on the farm with you Ciderville.
Apples Trees at Heartwood’s Orchard
Bulmers Normand
Kingston Black
Michelin
Dabinet
Harry Masters Jersey
Chisel Jersey
Heartwood Cider Production
Currently producing 15,000 liters (3,963 gallons)
Cidery
600 Square feet
There are 4 large tanks that are each 6000 liters (1585 gallons)
Tasting Room was built in the Summer of 2018. It is a well appointed room about 23’ X 14’ with custom wood tables and walls, and an outdoor sitting area.
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
John Bunker in this chat helps to trace the lineage in the US between cider apples and cidermakers. If you ever doubted whether you are on the right track with your cidermaking skills, Have no fear. Not only does John affirm even one’s most basic cidermaking skills, but our basic love of the apple.
When I asked John what he would give himself as a job titled, he thought for a moment and then said, “Friend of Apples.” That friendship is helping apples throughout the US find their rightful place in history as they get identified one apple at a time.
Cammy Watts and John Bunker
John Bunker on making your own cider
Take a clue from John when tasting your next cider or thinking about fermenting apple juice for the first time, “When it comes to my own cider, I’m just happy if I like it. Cuz it’s a long way till next year. All I want is to like it, I don’t care if you like it. I just want to like it.”
He authored of Not Far From the Tree and The Art of Apple Detection
We chat about Fedco’s early history with cider apples. How he met with Steve Wood of Farnum Hill Cider and Farnum Hills contribution to the cider tree nursery. It is a story of cider apple lineage in the US.
John discusses meeting with Steve Wood of Farnum Hill Cider and Terry Maloney of West County Cider.
You will crave a taste of West County Cider’s Redfield Cider after listening to John chat about the history of this apple variety and how Terry Maloney’s himself decided to experiment with the Redfield after a trip to Geneva.
John says, “The Redfield is not an heirloom apple. It originated in 1940 or so. Most of our traditional American varieties are seedlings of unknown parentage.”
What about American cidermakers and what he suspects is happening and will continue to happen? John says, “There are so many [US] cidermakers that don’t know about the English bitter sweets and may never know about them.”
That he considers is a good thing and not something a cidermaker should worry so much about.
108: The Alcohol Professor chats Cider Competitions & Judging
00:42:22
Adam Levy’s moniker is “The Alcohol Professor “. In this chat we are talking with this self professed beer freak about getting cider makers to enter their ciders into two competition that he runs in New York City and Berlin, Germany.
Adam Levy
Adam started the International Spirits Competition in 2008 followed by the International Wine Competition and then the International Beer Competition which is now in its 7th year.
February 11, 2018, the New York International Beer Competition's 7th judging will be takes place in NYC. Beside beer, this competition also judges ciders and meads.
The cider categories used in the competition come from the United States Association of Cider Makers which just this year (2017) introduced their 10 categories for cider styles. International ciders entering the competition will be judged based upon their country’s styles.
What makes this competition unique is the Judges! Instead of having Makers, Adam has Trade Buyers judge the cider based upon category and price point.
Adam says, “Most people buy based on price. These people are the buyers and distributors some who own craft beer bars and are ordering at restaurants.”
How does entering this competition benefit makers and cider?
-First off, who doesn’t love winning a medal!
-More importantly, Adams says that if he gets enough entries he is open to having a stand alone cider competition!!! And best yet, he is getting very close to the number of cider needed to make it so.
We also discuss:
How the Gold, Silver, Bronze and regional awards are determined
Use of digital images from the awards
Options available for showcasing their awards, such as promoting a win on a cider label.
The Deadline to send cider to the February 11, 2018 competition is February 4th.
Going to CiderCon? Bring your cider to Adam who will be at the vendor area at CiderCon with a table and save money on shipping! You can also enter your cider in the Berlin International Competition and save money on international shipping charges.
Dates to note for upcoming competitions.
New York International Beer Competition February 11, 2018 Deadline to enter February 4, 2018
Berlin International Competition - March 4, 2018 Deadline to enter February 4, 2018
012: Randall Grahm | Bonny Doon Vineyard, California
00:52:05
Who is Randall Grahm
Randall Grahm has been rocking the world of winemaking for over 30 years. He began commercially selling wine under the Bonny Doon Vineyard label in 1983 when he opened the winery’s tasting room in the hills north of Santa Cruz, California in the village of Boony Doon. He authored Been Doon So Long : A Randall Grahm Vinthology (2012), and has the title and responsibilities of being President for life of Bonny Doon Vineyard. He is a four time winner of the James Beard Award.
Randall Grahm
Randall’s accomplishments in the world of wine are as unique as the man himself.
• Aptly titled the Rhone Ranger of California for his work with Rhone varietals. • Pioneered the use of screw on caps on premium wines.
Read the most recent list of Randall Grahm’s accolades.
In this Cider Chat
While I have long enjoyed Bonny Doon wines, I was in Santa Cruz to chat with Randall about Bonny Doon cider • 2013 Querry – 750ml is made with pear, apple and quince • Winter Nélis Sparkling Perry
Both of the above product are a bit past their time, though a bottle here or there may show up. If so do expect it to be a bit oxidized by 2024.
A Grahm Update 2022
Grahm sold the Bonny Doon Brand in 2020.
Listen to the most interview with Randall Grahm with Cider Chat on Episode188 recorded in 2019 at his new endeavor Popeluchum
County Cider based in Prince Edward County in the Canadian Province of Ontario began selling cider in 1996. It was launched by Grant Howes a formidable man considered the Grandfather of Cider in Ontario. In 2000 Jenifer Dean who had studied winemaking joined up with County Cider. Her husband Grant passed away unexpectedly in January 2017 when he had a heart attack in his sleep.
Jenifer Dean tells the story of County Cider's past, present and future in this walkabout chat with Ria at the onsite location overlooking Prince Edward Bay in Ontario.
Historical Facts on Canadian cider
Ontario cider had a number of setbacks related to Prohibition, but also due to the Ontario government's “Pullout Program” paying farmers to pull out trees. Unfortunately they had no pay out program farmers to plant trees.
County Cider grows a number of cider varieties
Kingston Black
Dabinet
Michelin
Yarlington Mill
Bulmers Norman
Benet Rouge
Brown Snout
Frequin rogue
Ciders at County Cider
Modern ciders made in with Fruit essence, such as peach and pear cider.
Traditional ciders such as Tortured Path made with a blend of bitter sharp and bitter sweet.
Ice cider made by allowing the apples (Ida Red) to freeze on the tree.
Visiting County Cider
Tasting Room and Retail Store - Open May 12th through October 31st
10:30 a.m. - 6 p.m.
Patio Restaurant open 7 days a week 11 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Process and Analytical NMR Services- John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat
390: Renaissance Orchards Keeved & French Style Ciders | WA
01:10:21
Meet Chris Rylands of Renaissance Orchards
First there was Cider Supply and then Chris founded Renaissance Orchards with his wife Melinda. This move was a natural progression of a series of events that include resources needed for making a keeved cider and the thirst for a particular style of cider.
The orchards and the Rylands are based in Ferndale a town just south of the Canadian border in Washington state.
Chris Rylands
In this Cider Chat with Chris of Renaissance
What happened to Cider Supply?
Why French style ciders?
The orchards at Renaissance
number of apple varieties and pear
Products
cider
scion
Melinda
Spotlight on Single Varietal Ciders
Hear how Chris dug into 16 cider specific apples to understand the best blending practices for cidermaking. Each label shows:
a picture of the specific apple
charts that apple’s
tannin
aromatics
acidity
astringent
sweetness
phenolics
The origin of the apple, including location
How to use – best as a blender or as a single variety cider
John Bunker teaches us that identifying an apple tree doesn't
begin with the apple, it always goes back to the root of the
tree...unless it is one of the Eric Clapton apples, i.e., you
immediately recognize it as a variety that you all ready know. John
provides a great metaphor for recognizing apples that you have
learned to instantly know, much like you would a riff from your
favorite musician.
The core of the issue is your knowledge base of beginning to
recognize key attributes that stand out during the identification
process.
Where to start?
As John says it, Begin by learning at least 24
varieties.
Two to learn first:
Macintosh
Cortland
"You want to obsess over a Dingaling Sweet, not a Mac or
Cortland apple."
Is it a seedling tree?
How old it the tree?
I need to see the tree to determine if it is a seedling
You learn what are the attributes or the characteristics of the
tree
Even a hundred years later you can see the graft.
Determining the age
Trunk diameter.
Is it hollow. All old trees are hollow, so you can't do a core
sample. "
"They are coreless"
Is there a pattern?
Are they in rows?
Can you see how they were planted?
What was the distance between the trees?
When you are finally ready to look at the fruit you have
eliminated what it could be.
How do we then find out if what we have is a particular
apple?
John says, "You eliminated the pool, you are like
Sherlock Holmes"
Apples mentioned in this chat?
Go to the shownotes for episode 028: John Bunker | Apple
Identification
The Philadelphia Orchard Project (POP) was founded in 2007 and serves Philadelphia and it surrounding area. This nonprofit organization both plants and supports community orchards in the city of Philadelphia.
2019 Harvest Festival at Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden
This chat features a chat with Kim Jordan who has been with POP since its founding. In 2019, she became a full time employee of POP. And is most currently the Co-Executive Director.
About POP
Community orchards are set up in vacant lots to help build green spaces.
POP works with any groups regardless of need
All the fund raising requires POP to plan, Plant and help organize the maintenance of the orchard.
In the fall when the harvest is in there are harvest festivals, Like “Juneberry Joy” that take place in October.
POP Harvest Festivals take place in October
POP also offers curriculum for teachers and farm educators. Go to the POP resource page to see the full list of offerings.
POPHarvest event on the University of Pennsylvania campus from October 2018
Mentions in this Chat
Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to ria@ciderchat.com
Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?
Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to ria@ciderchat.com
306: Ciders for Every Season | Elegast Cidery, Netherlands
01:06:52
Elegast Cidery Beginnings
Arjen Meeusem shares his story of living in Portland, Oregon and how a stop at Reverend Nat's Hard Cider to taste the cider inspired him to find out more about this niche market and its viability to make cider in the Netherlands.
Arjen Meeuwsen outside the estate based cidery
Arjen and his business partners began their cidery in an old green house and then moved to their current location in a 250 square meter shed and utilize the outdoor space for storing their cider.
In 2022, the cidery is expanded with a new tasting room and expand production area just outside of Amsterdam set to be open in the summer.
Elegast's goal is to use the rising interest in cider to help steer consumers to drink cider to help the orchards aka Drink Cider ~ Save Orchards!
Elegast Ciders and Seasonal Offerings
Elegast's Saison Cider is a lovely frothy cider with a nod to Saison beers with a cider structure all its own.
The goal is to balance the acidity and boost the profile so that there is enough mouthfeel to entice the drinker despite the lack of tannins in the current apples now growing in the Netherlands.
The cidery has access to old estate orchards with trees dating back to 1939, which is actually an Unesco Heritage Site marking the demarcation line and trenches used during the World War I.
All of Elegast Ciders can be drunk year round, but some might find your palate requesting them during select months.
Barrel Aged Ciders - Elegast has a range of barrel aged ciders that can be drunk in the winter and equally enjoyed by fans on a chilly spring, summer or fall evening.
Fruit Cider Series - Whole fruits are co-fermented and macerated to incorporate the taste and color of the skin and fruit
And excellent cider for the Spring and Summer
Terroir Series - Apples from specific orchards and allowed to ferment with the ambient yeast or what is often referred to as spontaneous yeasts
Gary Flowers Richmond Virginia's Jackson Ward Tour Guide and multi media star and host of the Gary Flowers Show
Peariodic Table of Pome Fruit commissioned by Randal Grahm - Put your name into the drawing for Patrons of Cider Chat by becoming a Patron at the Cider Chat Patreon Page for members at the $5 and up level.
New York International Cider Competition- February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.
259: Artifact Cityscape | Building a Cidery - Part 5
00:47:46
Artifact Cider Project
Soham Bahatt and Jake Mazar co-founded Artifact Cider Project in 2014. The cidery was originally located in the city of Springfield, Massachusetts, then moved out towards Boston and eventually back to western Massachusetts. Today, Artifact has two locations, a Tasting Room and production facility in Florence and one in Cambridge.
Soham Bahatt at Artifact Tasting Room and cidery in Florence, Massachusetts
1. What kind of scale are we looking at [for the size of a cidery]?
2. What are our goals?
Artifact's Plan to Become a 100 year old Company
Soham looks at the question of "What does it take to grow a 100 year company?"
Make sure the cider is good
Make sure we are listening to our customers
Don't out grow our suppliers
Artifact Equipment Tips
Baseline equipment and strategy tips for a small scale cidery start up
Focus on sourcing your raw material, which for a cidery is apples
Equipment
IBC tanks are used widely in the industry for start ups and ongoing ferments
Tri clamps - don't cheap out on quality
Decent pump - all makers in this series stress the need to have a quality pump
Bottle by hand. Canning can come in later as it takes a bit of capital to get this jump started
Don't worry about a filter - use the luxury of time and let the cider settle to gain clarity
Equipment that Soham doesn’t like?
Filter - plate and frame is a pain in the butt
Artifact used a lenticular filter for a while and now has a Cross Flow Filter
The farmers of Monterey Bay California have been growing apples since the state constitution was first ratified in1849. The primary apple of the region is Newtown Pippin due partly to the demand for this apple by Martinelli’s, a 4th generation family run cider and apple juice producer.
If you speak to any orchardist in the area, there is a undeniable agreement that if not for Martinelli’s there would likely be no orchards in the area today.
This episode takes the listener along on my travels to the region to meet makers and plan for an up coming Totally Cider Tour” Monterey Bay. If you would like to get on the list for this tour now - do send an email to ria@ciderchat.com.
We begin with a song by Robbie Robertson of The Band “Christmas Must Be Tonight”, sung by my cousin Jay. Then we head out on the road to meet with makers for an evening of cider and chat surrounding the upcoming cider tour.
The 1st Annual New York International Cider Competition is Cider focused competition that is held in conjunction with the 6th Annual New York International Beer Competition.
Top Trade Buyers from the New York Metro Area including Cider Bars, Retail Stores, Distributors and Importers will be judging the cider by its category and actual price.
It is open to all commercially made cider from around the world. Your cider does not have to be sold and or imported into New York to be in the competition.
354: Preserving Historical Varieties of Apples & Pears
01:19:23
Are Historical Apple and Pears varieties at of becoming Extinct?
It appears it is not a question of if, when historical varieties are no longer with us as climate change and other mitigation factors such as land development and disease threaten prize pomes! This topic is discussed in this episode by a panel of well versed pome fans.
The Speakers on this Panel
Matt Kaminsky who is also known as Gnarly Pippins is the moderator.
Dan Newman hails from Palermo, Maine and has a keen interest in Pears from Maine. He is active in historical research that looks at records from county fairs. Each fair has the year and apple prized, and thus Dan can track what was grown where and when and by whom.
Dan Bussey has been growing heirloom apples for 42 years since 1980. He is the author of "The Illustrated History of Apples in the United States and Canada" It is a 7 volume encyclopedia on apples. The book is now on sale for $150 for the set. When released in 2016 it was $320.
John Bunker was last on Cider Chat in episode 352 & 353. He is the Founder of the Maine Heritage Orchard & FEDCO Trees, Author of numerous books on Apples and is a well known Apple Detective.
Chicago Cider Summit February 4, 2023 - Live Stream at Cider Chat YouTube Channel 1-2pm , 5:30-6:30pm CST.
Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
Subscribe to the Cider Chat newsletter : eCiderNews
Attorney Lindsey Zahn specializes in wine law, but there is no denying that her interest in cider and the laws governing it commerce...and yes these there is a difference between wine and cider!
Her wine Blog On Reserve has been selected as on of the top 100 wine law blogs by the American Bar Association Journal.
In this chat we discuss:
The differences between wine and cider.
Gray areas of cider law
What comes first the licensing, permitting or trademark of your new cidery?
Branding
Promotion
Certification of Label Approval (COLA)
Advertising
Social media and how they are subject to government regulation
27 CFR part 4 which is the Labeling and advertising of wine from The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB)
Tide House and how it affects regulations on alcohol
And, what can Cidermakers do in regards to labeling vintage on their cider?
Winners of the Giveaway for 2 tickets to Cider Circus August 26, 2017at Copper Mountain Ski Resort in Colorado http://cidercircus.com/ where announced on this chat. Go to minute 1:05:55
Ask for the following 7 #CiderGoingUP Campaign cider supporters - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Ciderville.
Haven't downloaded this chat yet? Here is is again.
19 Jul 2023
374: Bonus Episode! CCLive | NY Apple Camp News!
00:27:04
Bonus Cider Chat Live on NY Apple Camp
July 28th - 30th at the Ashokan Center in the Hudson River Valley (on the west side of river) is the first ever NY Apple Camp!
Elizabeth Ryan of Stone Ridge Orchard who is producing this event catches us up on the scheduled events and talks.
Special Kickoff tour
The weekend begins with an optional tour on Friday focusing on the life of Andrew Jackson Downing. The tour goes to the original site of the Downing Nursery and Downing Park. Then a 2 hour lunch with cider and off to Esopus - where the Esopus Spitzenberg originated from.
Hear about all the great happenings at NY Apple Camp
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