Before The Light Goes Out (kathryn williams)

a weekly guest talk show about sleep with kathryn williams

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Michele Stodart .

Michele is the bass player and co writer with her brother Romeo in the band The Magic Numbers.

She has two solo albums and a third on the way. She has toured and collaborated with many artists over the years as well as appearing in films such as Yesterday and the Harry Hill movie. Early this year Michele won instrumentalist of the year at the Americana awards.

Michele was my first ever guest for the podcast and was gentle and kind with my lack of solid questions. I like a beginning to feel that way. We hear about her love of all things fluffy and cuddly.

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Tom McRae

Tom is a British singer songwriter. His debut self titled album was released in 2000. He has made many albums since and has sell out tours in the uk, Europe and America. Recently Tom released a collaborative album with Lowri Evans of co written and co performed songs.

Tom has always given me great advice on podcasts and radio shows and in this episode we hear how he can sleep like a bird on one leg in the queue at the post office.

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Chris Difford

Chris is a founding member and songwriter of the band Squeeze. He has written lyrics for Elton John, Elvis Costello, Jools holland and Marti Pellow. His autobiography “Some fantastic place” was published in 2017. Chris has a podcast which supports and is supported by help musicians. The episode kicks off rather saucily and has me all a flutter, but Chris is an assured story teller and I love sitting back and listening to him recall the past.

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Polly Paulusma

Polly is a British singer songwriter signed to One little Independent. She is known for her unusual guitar tunings and poetic lyrics. She has toured supporting Jamie Callum, Coldplay, Bob Dylan and Marianne Faithful to name a few. She has run her own record label with artists including Maz O Connor, Dan Wilde and Stylus boy. Her latest album “Invisible Music” is a group of folk songs that influenced Angela Carter. In this episode, Polly talks about the creative times she has found in the mornings, how sleep has been a big struggle over the years and the right etiquette to the bed.

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David Ford

David is a British singer songwriter and multi instrumentalist. He’s toured the world with KT Tunstall, Gomez, Elvis Costello and Ray Lamontagne. his latest album got record of the week in The Times and the Independent . He has a French grammy for his song 20 years performed by Jonny Halliday. In this episode David talks about how he wants to feel annihilated by work when he gets into bed and how he’s thinking of inventing a podcast about imaginary games.

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Kirsty Logan .

Kirsty is a Scottish novelist, poet, performer, literary editor, mentor, book reviewer. She’s presented shows on BBC Radio 4. Her novels have been described as dark fairy tales and magic realism akin to Angela Carter and Emma Donaghue.

In this episode kirsty tells the horrors of an air B and B stay and why her dream is a Premier Inn now.

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Kit Green

Kit is an Olivier award winning performer and writer. Their work covers comedy, cabaret, theatre and live art. They are best known for characters Tina C and Ida Barr and their work on BBC Radio 4. In this episode kit recalls a teddy that played a tune from his tummy and their Grandmother’s fur coat, as well as learning to take up the whole bed when they became single.

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Paul smith

Paul is the front man and songwriter of band Maximo Park their latest album reached number 2 in the charts resulting in a sell out tour. Paul also has released three solo albums and a collaborative record with Field music’s Peter Brewis. In this episode Paul talks extensively about an eye injury, how sleep and lack of can result in great songs and the experiences of sleeping on the road.

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Ed Harcourt

Ed is a mercury music prize nominated songwriter, multi instrumentalist and producer. As well as his solo career he has written and produced Sophie Elis Bextor, Paloma Faith and Marianne Faithful. He’s supported many artists including The Afghan Wigs and most recently with Patti Smith at the Royal Albert Hall. He works now mostly from his Wolf Cabin Studios. In this episode Ed talks about sleeping in rubbish on the floor of a bus and how working through the night on songs has changed over the years. He also lets us into his mad imagination and making up bedtime stories.

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Rachel Unthank

Rachel is the founding member of folk group The Unthanks with her sister Becky, they have made over 10 albums all to critical acclaim, lauded as the queens of British folk for their harmonies and acapella performances. In this episode Rachel talks about sharing the vocal booth with various appliances and shoes, how tractors can mess up a take and the traditions of singing at bedtime.

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Ben Christophers

Ben is a singer songwriter, multi instrumentalist and record producer. He’s written and collaborated with Francois Hardy, supported Tori Amos and Imogen Heap and produced Bat For Lashes and Guy Garvey. In this episode Ben talks about a near miss with death when a tour bus hit a bridge, the peace and quiet of the countryside and the secret to a good cup of tea.

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Withered Hand (Dan Wilson )

Dan Wilson is the lead singer and songwriter in the Scottish based band Withered Hand. His first album good news was released in 2009. It has become a rare underground classic album, that has many fans in music pouring accolades, from Justin Currie from Del Amitri, to Marc Riley of bbc 6 music citing the band as one of his all time favourites.

In this episode, dan pumps an air bed, talks about walking past a big window like Liam Gallagher to scare no one and a long lost memory of a childhood book read by his dad.

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Ann Cleeves

Ann is a best selling crime writer best known for her books Vera, Shetland and Matthew Venn. She’s written over 30 books and won countless awards. She lives in Whitley Bay in the north east. This episode was recorded upstairs at her local book shop The Bound which was quite an echoing room. Ann talks about the loss of her husband, his love of birds and the amazing places she has fallen asleep and woken up in. 

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Boo Hewerdine

Boo is an Ivor Novello award nominated singer songwriter, best known for his work with Eddie Reader who made his song “Patience of Angels” an international hit. His career started as front man in 80’s band “The Bible”. He’s written for and with Sia, KDLang, Kris Drever and Chris Difford. In this episode he talks about the many hotels, b and b’s and houses he’s stayed in over the years on tour. How his resting position is angry starfish and the many times that trip advisor was right.

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Clare Shaw

Clare is a British poet whose three collections are published by Bloodaxe books. She has won The Northern writers award and is co director of Kendal poetry festival. She tutors at Arvon and the Wordsworth poetry school in Grassmere. In this episode Clare talks openly about her struggle with sleep and how grief has affected that. She talks with joy about sleeper train adventures and her new found joy of simple pleasures.

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Emmy the Great

Emma Lee Moss is an English singer songwriter who sings in English, Cantonese and Mandarin. Born in Hong Kong and raised in the UK, Emmy is in the process of writing a book on Canto pop.

This episode was recorded back stage at a show at the Barbican that we were both performing at, so you can hear the bustle of musical instruments now and again, and the echo of a small dressing room. She talks about the importance of dreams and how she keeps a dream diary. 

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Matt is a singer songwriter. He was the front man of band Mother Earth , has played guitar for Paul Weller and Oasis. Most recently a Sky documentary tells of his career, life and how he’s the best kept secret in the music industry.

This episode was recorded back stage at the Barbican at a show we were both playing that night. The same room in fact that I interviewed Emmy the Great. You may hear the echo of the room and musicians bobbing past now and again. Matt talks about his love of podcasts and when a podcaster does the adverts themselves. He also talks about his love of all things spooktacular and ghostly and the many experiences he’s had of hauntings.

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Sam Parton

Sam is one of the founding members of Canadian alt folk rock group The Be Good Tanyas. She has made most recently, an album with Jolie Holland called “Wildflower Blues”, that they co wrote and performed. In this episode Sam tells us about two car crashes, one of which saved her life, how she has had to adjust after brain surgery. Our conversation swerves straight into talking pre birth and post death.

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The Anchoress

Catherine Ann Davies is a songwriter, author and multi instrumentalist. She has supported and duetted with the Manic Street Preachers and toured with Simple Minds, Ed Harcourt and Martha wainwright. Her album “The Art Of Losing’, was named amongst the best albums of 2021 by the Sunday Times, Record Collector and Classic Rock. 

In this episode, Catherine talks about how the things that are supposed to get you to sleep don’t really work for her, the rules of tour buses, being autistic and the luxury of a huge hotel bed.

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Lisa Knapp is an English folk singer, musician and songwriter.

Her singing voice has been described as crystal clear and reminiscent of Anne Briggs. She can be heard singing on the closing credits of the film Living starring bill Nighy. she’s touring in March 2023 with Marry Waterson and Nathanial Mann going under the name Hack Poets Guild. She has released three solo albums and one of my very favourite things in lockdown was her singing the weather on you tube, where she would improv a song of the day's weather forecast accompanied on harmonium.

In this episode Lisa talks about identity, illness, circadian rhythms and even sings us a lullaby.

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Leo Abrahams is an English musician, composer and producer.

He attended The Royal Academy of Music before starting his music as the lead guitarist with Imogen Heap. He has collaborated with Brian Eno, Katie Melua, Ed Harcourt, Jarvis Cocker, Chris Difford, Carl Barat, Regina Spektor, John Hopkins and Paul Simon to name a few.

He has released five studio albums which are ambient soundscapes with complex arrangements. He has co-written and arranged film soundtracks including Peter Jackson's The Lovely Bones and Steve McQueen's Hunger. To be honest, I could name another hundred artists and projects but lets just say he can play piano, guitar, guitarette, bass, hurdy gurdy, omnichord and something called the guitorgan?

In this episode, Leo is happy to be tired and frustrated in order to have something to talk about. Stories include his younger self sleeping on a 45 degree angle ramp outside a flat he couldn't get into, and his big affection for hotel beds.

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Kathryn Joseph is a Scottish singer, songwriter and musician. Her debut album “Bones You Have Thrown Me And Blood I Have Spilt” won the 2015 SAY (Scottish Album of the Year) award. Her second album “From When I Wake The Want Is” was also shortlisted. Her third album “ For You Who Are Wronged” is out this year.

Kathryn's version of “Land O The Liel” and “Scots Wah Hey” were included in the film “ Outlaw King”.

She has collaborated with Cora Bissett on a stage version of Emma Donaghue’s book “Room”, and also with The Twilight Sad’s James Graham on a project that ended as an album called “Conflats”.

Her live performances are electric and powerful with joy sorrow and heart pouring off the stage.

In this episode we learn that Kathryn can sleep very easily, does not want a wooden nose protector to stop her dog biting it off and knows who ate the big block of cheese!

Find Kathryn Joseph here

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Romeo Stodart is the lead singer/songwriter for The Magic Numbers. The band have released five critically acclaimed albums thus far including the self-titled Mercury Music Prize nominated, million selling debut, the follow up Those The Brokes, 2010's The Runaway, 2014’s Alias and their most recent album, 2018’s Outsiders. He is also a producer and songwriter for artists as varied as Ren Harvieu, Billy Bragg and Natalie Imbruglia.

He has toured with the magic numbers world wide and supported artists such as Neil Young, the Flaming Lips, Rufus Wainwright.

in this episode he talks about how his granny got him into music and creating and how he makes up magical far out bedtime stories for his son.

Find Romeo here

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Salena Godden FRSL is an award-winning author, poet and broadcaster of Jamaican-mixed heritage based in London. In 2021 Canongate published her highly acclaimed debut novel Mrs Death Misses Death. It won The Indie Book Award for fiction and was the winner of The Peoples Book Prize 2022. It was also shortlisted for The British Book Awards; The Bad Form Magazine Book Of The Year shortlist and The Gordon Burn Prize. Film and TV rights to this debut novel have been taken by Idris Elba and Green Door Pictures. Currently Godden is working on three new books for Canongate: a memoir, a poetry collection and an eagerly anticipated second novel set in the Mrs Death Misses Death universe - all three books are due for publication in 2024 and 2025.

A new edition of Pessimism is for Lightweights - 30 Pieces of Courage and Resistance was published by Rough Trade Books in February 2023. This hardback edition features revised and new material, an introduction by John Higgs, an Old English translation of the title poem by Emily Cotman and design and artwork by Craig Oldham. 

Salena Godden's work has been widely anthologised and broadcast on BBC radio, TV and film. Her many credits include her contribution to the BAFTA award-winning Life and Rhymes hosted by Benjamin Zephaniah and co-starring in award-winning indie anti-rom-com movie Brakes. She also regularly co-hosts an arts and culture radio show Roaring 20’s Radio for Soho Radio with art journalist Amah Rose Abrams and poet Matt Abbott. 

Her essay Shade was published in groundbreaking anthology The Good Immigrant (Unbound). A short-story Blue Cornflowers was shortlisted for the 4th Estate and Guardian short story prize. Godden has had several volumes of poetry published including Under The Pier (Nasty Little Press) Fishing in the Aftermath: Poems 1994-2014 (Burning Eye Books) Pessimism is for Lightweights - 13 Pieces of Courage and Resistance (Rough Trade Books) plus also a literary childhood memoir,  Springfield Road (Unbound). She has produced four studio albums to date - her solo poetry album LIVEwire (Nymphs and Thugs) was shortlisted for The Ted Hughes Prize. Her poem Pessimism is for Lightweights is on permanent display at The Peoples History Museum, Manchester. The Royal Society of Literature elected Godden as fellow FRSL in November 2020, she was inducted in July 2022. 

In this episode she talks about working in the early morning and seeing the sunrise, having little naps under pool tables and other nooks in nightclubs and then carrying on her night. she also eloquently discusses the magic time between sleep and wake and how those blurrings form a special place to create from.

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Kate St John is an English composer, arranger, producer and multi-instumentalist.

Classically trained on oboe, she gained a music degree at City University London. Her first band was The Ravishing Beauties with Virginia Astley and Nicky Holland. The trio joined The Teardrop Explodes in Liverpool during the winter of 1981 for a series of dates at small clubs and a UK tour in early 1982. During the 1980s and early 1990s, she was a member of The Dream Academy with Nick Laird-Clowes and Gilbert Gabriel. In 1985 they had a worldwide hit with "Life In A Northern Town" and produced three albums: The Dream Academy (1985), Remembrance Days (1987) and A Different Kind Of Weather (1990). In the 1990s St. John was a member of Van Morrison's live band playing oboe and saxophone. She played on five Van Morrison albums. In 1994 she co-wrote and sang on 4 tracks with Roger Eno on the album The Familiar on the All Saints Label. This led to the formation of Channel Light Vessel, a band with Kate, Roger Eno, Bill Nelson, Laraaji and Mayumi Tachibana. St John has released two solo albums: Indescribable Night (1995) and Second Sight (1997).

I met Kate when she was musical director for a Barbican show of the songs of Nick Drake. She has gone on to MD many other multi-artist shows. She has worked with Hal Wilner, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, Kate and Anna McGarrigle, to name just a few.

In this episode she talks about working with Van Morrison, a love of books and libraries, wordle and how sleep comes even when she is stressed.

Find Kate here

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Neill MacColl is the eldest son of folk pioneers Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger and the half brother of Kirsty MacColl. He is also a musician, songwriter and producer in his own right.

He has produced albums for many artists including Bombay Bicycle Club, where Neill eldest son Jamie is the guitarist, and toured as a seasoned session guitarist with artists such as David Gary, David Gilmour, Jesse Buckley and Nadine Shah. He has composed for film and TV, films such as Fever Pitch, 24/7, Far From The Madding Crowd and My Cousin Rachel. He also wrote and recorded an amazing album with me called Two, as well as writing songs such as Heart Shaped Stone for the Crown Electric album and the song Me For You on my latest record Night Drives.

In this episode he gets quite vehement about cushions, and talks of being in the wilderness as his most at home place. 

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Marry Waterson, is a singer, songwriter and visual artist.

A member of the Waterson-Knight-Carthy folk music family, Waterson is described as having "thrived on communal music making while developing highly original and distinctly English performance styles of [her] own".

She has made 7 albums on One Little Independent Records and she has collaborated with Emily Barker, Adem, David Jaycocks and Olly knight. She has toured with Richard Hawley and Jarvis Cocker and has made music videos for countless artist with her unique blend of illustrative found pieces and old film

In this episode Marry talks of spending her honeymoon in a car with waves lapping at the wheels.

Find Marry here

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Jude Rogers has been a journalist for twenty years this year, writing about music, books, the arts, culture, people and lots more besides for The Guardian, the Observer, Word Magazine and lots of other places.

She makes radio programmes and also published a book, The Sound of Being Human: How Music Shapes Our Lives last year, which dug deep into how music moves us, and how music shaped her own life from her earliest memories to her her life now in her mid-forties.

She lives in Wales with her husband Dan, son Evan and cats Mildred and Maud - named by Evan after the Worst Witch witches - and she first met a certain singer songwriter on a job in Ullapool FIFTEEN years ago where they and last week's guest Niall MacColl stayed up in a hotel honesty bar until 4am.

In this episode she talks about The Arcade Fire interviews, sleeping on a scout hut floor and how Mark Hollis dying was a catalyst for her book.

Find Jude here

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Muriel Teodori is a french psychoanalyst, writer, songwriter, film director and producer.

Her first film “ Sans Plomb” premiered at the Carbourg film fest in 2000. She has written as a journalist for Elle magazine under a pseudonym Jean Giselle. She wrote the libretto Welcome To The Voice with her husband Steve Nieve. She held a masterclass at the Cannes film festival all about the unconscious of TV characters. She has written books on philosophy and Dior.

In this episode she talks movingly about being isolated as a child, dreams and singing to her father.

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Steve Nieve is an English musician and composer. In a career spanning more than 40 years, Nieve has been a member of Elvis Costello’s backing bands, The Attractions The Imposters and also Madness. He has also experienced success as a prolific session musician featured on a wide array of other artists' recordings.

In 2003, he was inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of fame as a member of Elvis Costello and the Attractions. 

Nieve has released several solo albums. Keyboard Jungle (1983) was his first, a combination of classical and ersatz film scores delivered from his beloved Steinway piano. His second album, Playboy (1987), consisted of solo acoustic piano renditions of rock songs. His other solo albums It's Raining Somewhere (1996), Mumu (2001) and Windows(2004) all confirmed his status as an artist in his own right. His classical opera," Welcome To The Voice",was a  collaboration with his partner, Muriel Teodori and was released in May 2007. It was interpreted by Sting, Robert Wyatt, Elvis Costello, Amanda Roocroft, Nathalie Manfrino and Barbera Bonney.. Nieve also composed the score to Téodori's film Sans Plomb.

In this episode Steve talks of time on the road and the creative process true love and theories of sleep. 

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Laura Barnett is a best selling author, journalist, theatre critic and teacher.

Her first novel Versions of us was a Times best seller and was translated into 25 different languages. Her second novel Greatest Hits was a collaboration with songwriter Kathryn Williams. She has written a third novel Gifts and has just released another titled This Beating Heart which tackles IVF. She lives in an Oast house with her husband, son and cat and teaches at manchester university.

In this episode she talks of trying to sleep in a tree and waking to a man with NO pants on doing some Shakespeare! She talks about writing, being a mother and really gets into the conscious and sub consciousness of creativity.

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