YOU CAN Make a Living In The Music Industry Podcast (John Martin Keith)

This week I’m talking with writer, producer and composer Brian Steckler in CA. Brian has made a successful career for himself producing albums, composing for sync and library production music with NBC, CBS, Netflix and more. Brian has won a Clio award for helping create the audio and star in one of the most famous Super Bowl ads of all time as a certain frog who liked to say “er!” We are discussing working for a jingle company and creating world famous ads, writing production library music used on countless shows, finding your niche to work in a field of music that only you can provide and how you need to decide what success looks like for you.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *Working for Hummingbird Productions in Nashville. *What a jingle company does. *Creating the voices of the Budweiser Frogs commercial soundtrack. *The difference in studio budgets from the 1980s and today. *Working in sync music. *Writing library production music. *Writing to briefs on a deadline. *Writing for a children’s preschool curriculum program. *Making the right connections. *Having a breadth of knowledge to do many things. *Writing custom cues for Netflix. *Putting favorite sounds into a template for speed. *Align yourself with people who are good at things you aren’t. *It’s a long term numbers game. *Send it, forget it. *Tear tracks apart to learn how to create them. *Making your first instinct sound good. *https://www.briansteckler.com/ *@briansteckler on IG.

BIO:

I have made a career of creating music in a wide variety of forms and genres. The scope of my experience includes collaborations with directors, editors, and ad agencies for commercial musical purposes as well as working with individual artists, and bands to create and hone unique musical styles.This range of experience has given me a broad musical basis to draw from. I enjoy learning what people want and need musically, and then bringing even more than they expect to both the process and the result.

After receiving my BFA (piano performance) from Western Michigan University in 1993, I moved to Nashville and began my career at Hummingbird Productions, one of the leading jingle houses on Music Row at the time. It was there I co-produced the audio and lent my voice to one of the most recognized, Clio-winning Super Bowl commercials of all time: Budweiser “Frogs.” I wrote and produced national, regional, and local spots during my years at Hummingbird and it was there that I learned how to deliver great sounding audio on very tight deadlines.

I moved to Los Angeles in 1997 in order to pursue songwriting and production and began working with artists and bands crafting songs, producing tracks, and mixing my own work, as well as other producer’s songs. I wrote songs for Sony ATV Music Publishing, including co-writing with Billy Porter, Gary Barlow (Take That), Paul Stanley (KISS), 2Gether (an MTV boy band spoof series), and many others. With artist Angela Via, I co-wrote and produced a song that landed in Pokemon: The Movie and on the multi-platinum selling soundtrack album. It was also during this time I had my first taste of film scoring, working closely with Keith Forsey (Billy Idol’s long-time record producer) to create the score for Wisegirls, a film starring Mira Sorvino and Mariah Carey. 

As the record industry underwent significant changes during the Napster era, my wife and I chose to move our young family to Northern California. While maintaining my relationships in LA, I was able to work with independent artists and bands, as well as grow my skills and experience scoring, working for Universal Pictures on trailers and promos, as well as regularly placing cues in TV shows. 

Recently, I’ve written the score for the Netflix series The Day I Met El Chapo, provided the bulk of the music, including the Main Title theme for a number of other series: Hunted (CBS), S.T.R.O.N.G. (NBC), Ultimate Beastmaster, Awake, Cooked with Cannabis (Netflix). I also had the opportunity to score the award winning documentary Hand Rolled: A Film About Cigars, as well as Sun, Soil & Water, which is currently being screened at a number of film festivals.   My wife and I live in Granite Bay, CA  which is situated between Folsom and Roseville, about 30 minutes from downtown Sacramento, and 90 minutes from Lake Tahoe. Living somewhere beautiful, outside the “rat race,” certainly helps my creative flow. I work in my well sound-proofed custom recording studio called “The Stickhouse,” which is an ideal place for creating and mixing music. My studio is built around the Slate Digital VRS8 system, running Pro Tools Ultimate and Logic Pro, depending on the functionality I need for each project. I have a substantial library of Virtual Instruments and samples which cover any genre, from orchestral to hip-hop.

This week I’m talking with my friend Jordan Childs who is an amazing musician and producer. He tours professionally as a drummer, produces and composes music for indie films and tv and also plays drums and keys for America’s Got Talent. We are discussing the beauty of “retainer gigs,” building genuine relationships, focusing on your character and values and the importance of being disciplined.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Grew up playing in church since the age of 9 as the main drummer.

*I was expected to play at a high level.

*Started to expand my musical library learning jazz fusion at 11.

*There is value in combining private lessons and learning on your own.

*Went to Berklee and got a degree in composition and production.

*I did music directing at my dad’s church after Berklee.

*When I moved to L.A. I got plugged in quickly by getting a music directing job at a church because of my experience back home.

*A family friend who has lived in L.A. for over 20 years helped me get my first touring gig here.

*I did a lot of wedding gigs back home before I moved to L.A. so within the first month or so of moving to CA. I was able to get some wedding gigs because a friend from Berklee needed me to sub for him.

*Within the first year and a half in L.A. I met a guy who had gone to Berklee and he changed my life because two weeks after meeting him he posted an audition for a British artist and I got the gig and was on retainer for over a year.

*A retainer gig is when you agree on a certain amount to get paid per month usually and they get priority of my schedule. If I have anything else going on and something comes up with that artist, then since I am on retainer I agree to drop whatever else I am doing to focus on that artist.

*Some musicians that have retainer gigs are not allowed to do other work.

*I started working on production projects during that time and scoring indie films, etc.

*I play drums and keys for different contestants on the tv show America’s Got Talent.

*I got that gig because I got a random email from one of the people who staff the band asking if I would like to be on America’s Got Talent in the band.

*Once I started posting online about it, a friend reached out and said he told them about me and was glad I got the gig. I met him at my dad’s friend’s 70th birthday party. That guy was also a Berklee grad so we hit it off. He’s actually the music director for The Jonas Brothers now.

*Be open to have conversations. You never know who you are talking to. You never know what a conversation can lead to.

*Every opportunity I’ve gotten in L.A. has come through a connection with somebody.

*The book 7 Habits of Highly Effective People says there is primary greatness and secondary greatness.

*Personality ethic is the ability to be persuasive and eloquent in your speech, charismatic.

*Character ethic is who you are and the breadth of investment you made into the things that are virtues and values and your congruence to those things.

*Networking as a skill has value. To me it seems like a secondary greatness type of thing where I’m learning how to speak to people or market myself or position myself.

*The thing for me that has been more impactful has been building genuine relationships with people and interests in what they are doing and trying to figure what I can do to serve you at the time of meeting you.

*Put others before yourself.

*I write for commercials and tv projects through a company in Canada called Premium Beat.

*They pay you per track and you get to keep your writers share.

*If someone is doing what you want to do and you have the ability to reach out to them and tell them you love what they do, ask them if you can meet them and ask them 3 specific questions and buy them a cup of coffee, you never know what can come from that.

*If you do that kind of thing on a consistent basis, it can change your career.

*Decide who you want to be before you decide what you want to do.

*Focus on your character, your values, then as you approach what you do allow that to be a natural expression.

*Be disciplined.

*In order for me to do anything great in life it will require discipline.

*Ultimately people will want to hire you because of your character.

*Following Jesus is what has made my life better and me better at life.

*www.jordanchilds.com

*Instagram - @jordancchilds

Jordan is a producer, composer, arranger, music director, multi-instrumentalist and thinker. Born and raised in Kingston, NY, Jordan is a self-described analytical creative and curator of vibrations. Jordan graduated from the prestigious Berklee College of Music in 2012 with a degree in Electronic Production in Sound Design. Now based in the Los Angeles area, Jordan has had the privilege of touring as the drummer for international pop star Bipolar Sunshine. Jordan has also had the opportunity to play drums for the Voice finalist, Chris Mann, and Glee star, Cheyenne Jackson. Jordan is also the keyboardist for ROK mobile artist, Maisy Kay, and recently returned from touring in Japan on keys with J-Pop superstar, Che’Nelle. In 2017, Jordan worked with filmmaker Scott Bahler to produce the score for a short-film entitled How To Be Lonely and Depressed which is set to be featured in festivals worldwide.

This week I’m talking with my friend, co-writer, co-producer and fellow worship pastor Chris Clayton. Chris is one of the top worship music producers in Nashville. His track record includes some of my favorite artists including Shane and Shane, Big Daddy Weave and Phillips, Craig and Dean and his songs have been featured in Lifeway, Word and Integrity Music. We are discussing the differences you will find as a producer starting out compared to the bar that Nashville sets for you to rise to and what it takes to hit that bar. Plus, we discuss the differences in recording a live album vs. a studio album and what the role of a producer should play in an artists life.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Song Capture Podcast - www.songcapture.com *Do a great job so artists will spread the word about you. *The Nashville Bar. *Learn to track, edit and pocket a vocal the best you can. *Training your ear to tune vocals properly. *The big picture of production. *Produce masters, not demos. *Produce the demo so well, the label will want you to produce the album. *Differences between recording a live album vs. a studio album. *The Process of recording a live album. *Capturing a moment from the audience. *Costs of having a song produced.


*What true producers are looking for. *The hardest part for producers working with artists. *The biggest investment you can do for your music is bring in a producer. *Artists: surround yourself with people better than you and find a producer who’s the right fit for you. *As a producer: just start and just do. *Serve the people you’re given. *www.chrisclaytonmusic.com

BIO: Chris Clayton is an award-nominated Worship/CCM producer, songwriter and mix engineer. He has worked on projects with a variety of independent artists and churches as well as national artists like Big Daddy Weave, Phillips, Craig, and Dean, Shane and Shane, Christine D'Clario, Kristene DiMarco (Bethel Music) and Prestonwood Worship just to name a few. As a songwriter, his songs have been featured by many artists and organizations including Worship Leader Magazine, LifeWay Worship, Word Music and Integrity Music.  

“Burn Bright,” co-written and produced by Clayton, and recorded by Will Walker, was nominated for the 2018 GMA Canada Covenant Award for Pop Song of the Year. Clayton’s heart is for the Church and the artists he works with. Serving also as the worship pastor at Gateway Church in Franklin, Tennessee, he credits his grounding in the local church as one of the keys to his success. After all, it’s not just about the music.

“It's about investing in the artist as a person,” he says. “It truly drives everything I do.” Those relationships shine through the music, creating a lyrical and musical landscape out of intimate conversations and trust.”

Chris resides in the Nashville, TN area with his beautiful and amazing wife Kara and their five awesome kids.

This week I talking with my friend Dave Cleveland who is one of the top session and touring guitar players in Nashville. He’s played on over 30,000 songs throughout his career for artists like Little Big Town, Steven Curtis Chapman and Miley Cyrus. We are discussing the importance of learning parts correctly when playing for artists, ear training, being a “parts player” not an “everything player." Plus, why you have to play for the song, not for yourself.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I started playing guitar when I was 12 or 13 and by 14 I knew that was all I wanted to do.

*I learned to read music when I was in the school jazz band in high school.

*I was diligent and self motivated in practicing because I knew that to get to the point I wanted to get to and play like the people I was listening to, it took a lot of work.

*I wanted to play with orchestras and symphonies so I had to learn to read notation.

*I went to Florida after high school and studied jazz guitar for about a year and learned more about theory and chord voicing, etc.

*I got a call from the owner and director of the band TRUTH to be their guitar player and that was my college degree. I got that gig because a guy from a church named Joe Hogue that I met and wrote music with had become the keyboard player and he recommended me.

*I was into rock music with the “more is more” attitude and walked into this situation was there was no room for that kind of playing. After the first couple of shows, I thought I was doing a great job until the drummer came to me and told me to listen to the parts again that are on the album because I was playing way too much.

*That was the best thing in my life for me to learn and affected my whole career.

*You have to play for the song.

*When you play on an artist’s record, you have to listen to everything around you. You have to know where your spots are to add and you have to know where to not play.

*Being in TRUTH for 3 years helped fine tune that idea of being a “parts player” as opposed to an “everything player.”

*Always have a good attitude and treat whatever you’re working as the most important thing you’ve ever done.

*Always do your best.

*After TRUTH I took a break from playing professionally.

*A friend of mine asked me to come check out Nashville, so we came down and hung out with him while he was tracking an album and asked me to overdub a guitar part.

*That was the moment that we realized that we should move to Nashville and start playing guitar again professionally.

*Within a year I got called by Twila Paris to play for her because a guy that did lights for TRUTH referred me and I got an audition for her and got the gig.

*When you have to take other work that is not music related, you are being prepared for something.

*When you have down time, don’t neglect your practice time because that is essential for when you show up the next time.

*Never waste your down time. If you have down time, there’s a reason and you should dig in and whatever you feel you’re weak in musically you should strengthen that.

*After Twila Paris, Steven Curtis Chapman called me to play for him on tour because he saw me play with Twila and liked what I did.

*When your touring with high level players, the caliber of musicianship is so amazing and you have to get up to that level.

*When you touring with big artists you’re expected to play the parts EXACTLY like the record, unless the artist gives you permission to take a little liberty.

*If you audition for a band or artist, you should know not only your guitar part but all the other guitar parts note for note. Be so aware of all the other instrument parts so when you go into the audition, you are over prepared and try to have the exact sound or as close as you can get.

*Don’t go into debt, so put money aside now so when you need certain gear for a gig you can get it.

*We would rehearse 3-4 weeks before a tour started so we could have the show down so the audience isn’t getting a rehearsal on the first show.

*I took what I learned from SCC and went back to Twila Paris’ band and worked it out with her management to rehearse the band for 2 weeks before we even saw Twila so when she walks in it’s like she’s playing along to her album.

*There’s nothing more frustrating for an artist than sitting there while players are mumbling through there parts if they don’t have them down.

*In today’s world, the band guys need to take it upon themselves to really rehearse before working with the artist because they don’t have the luxury to rehearse for 2 weeks all together before a tour.

*Some artists I’ve played with are Steven Curtis Chapman, Twila Paris, TRUTH, Susan Ashton, Amy Grant, Martina McBride, Avalon, Point of Grace and Phillips, Craig and Dean.

*I’ve also done studio work because my name started to get out after working with Twila.

*People say you can’t be a studio player and a touring player and be successful.

*The touring musician has to be the guy who re-creates the parts.

*The session musician has to be the creator of the parts.

*I’ve been able to do both so it’s allowed me to be successful in ways that others haven’t.

*I try to get myself in the mindset each day like I’m just picking up the guitar for the first time and it’s the first song I’ve ever played on so that gets me excited.

*Doing both is not as hard today because of technology. You can be on the road touring and track a part on your computer and email it where it needs to go.

*You have to know how to record yourself.

*You have to be skilled.

*If you’re lacking in some area, get better at that.

*If your ear is not well adapted to picking up lines in songs, get some ear training.

*I have an online guitar teaching course: www.davecleveland.com

Dave Cleveland is a first call session guitar player in Nashville, Tennessee. He has played on a multitude of Grammy and Dove Award winning projects with artists including Steven Curtis Chapman and The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir. Over his 26 years in Nashville, Dave has played on over 30,000 songs for artists like Miley Cyrus, Little Big Town, Stephen stills, Russ Taff and many more. His movie credits include The Apostle, Jimmy Neutron, and Courageous. He is a member of The Sam’s Place house band at the Ryman Auditorium which is hosted by Steven Cutis Chapman. On that stage, he has had the privilege of performing with Ronnie Milsap, Ray Stevens, Hillary Scott, Chris Tomlin, Amy Grant and many more. Just recently he was honored to play at two of the Presidential events at the White House: The Liberty Ball and the Candlelight Dinner. Dave was also invited to play at the White House for President George Bush by Michael Omartian during President Bush’s administration. In a constant pursuit of creativity, Dave has amassed quite a large library of songs used consistently on TV shows, commercials, and movies worldwide. With over 1500 original compositions in rotation, he is constantly heard on shows like 20/20, The Chew, Undercover Boss and many more including the 2017 Pepsi Lemon Lemon commercial. But above all of this, Dave is a follower of Jesus Christ and a dedicated father of Olivia, Catherine, and Joshua, and husband to his amazing wife, Tammy, of 32 years.

Photo by: @kathryntbyrd

This week I’m talking with my friend a fellow guitarist Jason Brooks. We met while working on the tv show Nashville together a few years ago. Jason has toured all over the world and played on multiple talk shows as a guitar player for some of today’s most popular country artists including Cassadee Pope, Danielle Bradbery, Maddie & Tae, Mickey Guyton and more. We are discussing how to play to the strength of your amp, how to go about getting an endorsement deal and the importance of being available in order to get gigs.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Know when to grab an opportunity. *Availability is essential. *When you find success, continue to grow it. *Don’t oversell yourself. *If you’re not keeping up with people in your network, you’re actually removing them from it. *3 main types of amps to work from. *Play to the strength of the amp. *Understand your voice on your instrument. *Endorsement deals. *Pursue a deal from a smaller company first. *How busy you are and where you are in your career help determine endorsements you get. *Establish a relationship with endorsement people. *Tag companies you want endorsements with on social media as you use their gear. *Venues vs. TV. *Create your own success vs. just being an employee. *Saving your money and have emergency funds. *Charts vs. memorizing. *Always learn the music. *Make sure your instruments are well maintained.

BIO: Jason Brooks is a Nashville based guitarist. Born in South Korea, Jason grew up just outside Washington DC in Herndon Virginia. At 20, Jason made the move to Nashville to pursue a degree in Music Business at Belmont University. 
Since moving to Nashville Jason has had several high profile performances on The Today Show, The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon, The Late Show feat David Letterman, Today with Megyn Kelly, The Kelly Clarkson Show, ABC/CMT drama Nashville, CMT, CMC Australia, CMA Fest Nissan Stadium. 
When not touring with The Voice Season 3 winner Cassadee Pope, Jason splits his time between other major label acts and local Nashville gigs. Additionally Jason owns a small production company which specializes in remote tracking sessions and end to end production for commercial compositions which have been featured on Spotify, Tidal, and Apple Music.

Jason has worked with Grammy nominated artist Cassadee Pope, Grammy nominated artist Ashley Monroe, Season 4 The Voice Winner Danielle Bradbery, Gone West feat. Colbie Caillat, Maddie & Tae, Mickey Guyton, Jana Kramer, Lainey Wilson, Chord Overstreet and many others.

Jason is endorsed by Gibson Brands, Fender Musical Instrument Company, Daddario Strings, and Lollar Pickups. You can connect with Jason on his Instagram at @iisjasonbrooks.

This week I am talking with my friend James Shotwell. James works with the company Haulix where he focuses on digital music distribution and their music industry job board which is an ever-growing list of music industry job openings all over the country.  If you are looking for a job in the music industry, this is a great place to start! 

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

This week we talk about:

*Working for the company Haulix doing digital music distribution. *Writing for music publications, Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, etc. *Radio promotions. *Working with major labels and artists as well as indie artist. *Haulix can be used as press kit to connect with labels and managers. *Come across like you know what you’re doing. *Finding music jobs for free on The Music Industry Job Board. www.haulixdaily.com. *Doing concert promotions as a teenager in the local town and how you can do that. *How to get money from your local town to promote concerts. *Creating and selling your own blog/website. *Building relationships with publicists for artists to write for publications. *Side hustles. *How you can work VIP packages at concerts. *www.cidentertainment.com or www.vipnation.com *Look for ways to solve problems for people. *Create solutions for people. *Only chase the things you are passionate about. *Contact James on twitter at @jamesdshotwell, You tube at music biz,  podcast - Inside Music, podcast - High Notes, www.haulix.com

BIO:

There are a million stories about people from the Midwest rising above their humble beginnings to leave a mark on the world, but this one is mine. A childhood spent in a Southwest Michigan farming town under the guidance of parents who loved the arts as much as one another led me to appreciate all forms of creative expression from an early age. The only thing I ever wanted to do was connect people with great entertainment, but it took a while to find my calling. I successfully petitioned my hometown for funding to open a music venue at fifteen, and by seventeen I was traveling the countryside performing songs I wrote. College brought an opportunity to study the entertainment while moonlighting as a radio DJ and blossoming critic. It was during that time that I created a music blog known as Under The Gun Review, which I later sold to a media company shortly after graduation.   The choice to build a career on the merit of my skills led to industry recognition and bylines at some of the biggest publications on the planet, including Rolling Stone and Alternative Press. It also led to marketing work at a music startup, tour management with artists on Van’s Warped Tour, the launch of a record label, and my current role as Director Of Customer Engagement at Haulix.  Throughout my journey, the power that entertainment possesses has been a focus of my work. The right words, images, and music can transform someone’s life and make them see things from a fresh perspective. My goal is to help creative people reach new fans and better engage with their audience. The world needs great art now more than ever, and together, we can help people find the next thing that changes their life.

This week I’m talking with Pam Lewis of PLA Media in Nashville. PLA is a Public Relations company that gets their clients in front of audiences and consumers through public appearances on tv and in print.  Pam has an amazing history of being one of the people who launched MTV in the early 80s and also helped launch the careers of Garth Brooks and Tricia Yearwood. We are discussing the abilities you need to have to work for a PR firm as well as what it takes to start your own PR company. 

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*A publicist (Public Relations) is the glue that holds it all together. *Helping launch MTV. *A publicist’s job is to listen to the artist, hear your dreams and take them to the next level and make you a household name. *Publicists do press releases, promote concerts, booking events, finding endorsements, etc. *Publicists have to go through more levels of bureaucracy with major label artists. *Helping launch Garth Brooks and Trisha Yearwood’s careers. *Starting an independent PR company called PLA Media.
*A good publicist helps connect the dots. *Looking for unique opportunities for clients, not the obvious ones. *Be Tenacious. *First thing to ask a publication is if they’re on deadline. If they are don’t bother them. *Find common ground with whoever is on the phone with you. *Our job is to create a buzz. *Rates to hire PLA Media start at $2000-2500 a month and go up from there. *It’s best to do at least 3 months with PR to do as much as possible. *What it takes to start your own PR company. *Can you provide a valuable service to clients? *You have to have boundaries. *Learn how to work a room. *Be a good listener. *Learn how to talk on the phone. *www.plamedia.com

BIO: Pamela Lewis, a native of upstate New York, is an entrepreneur, preservationist, philanthropist and author. A graduate of Wells College with a B.A. in Economics/Marketing and a minor in French and Communications. Lewis spent a year in Paris studying at COUP (Center of Overseas Undergraduate Program) affiliated with The Sorbonne University. In New York City, she did additional graduate course work at Fordham University, The New York School for Social Research, The Publicity Club of New York and Scarritt Bennett. Lewis is also a graduate of University of Tennessee’s Institute of Public Service Local Government Leadership Program (third level), of the Belmont University College of Business Administration’s Scarlett Leadership Institute Mini Executive MBA program, of Leadership Music, of the Citizen’s Police Academy and of the Leadership Middle Tennessee 2020 program.

From 1980 to 1984, Lewis was part of the original publicity/marketing team of WASEC (Warner Amex Satellite Entertainment Company), a joint venture of Warner Communications and American Express, that launched MTV to the world. She also worked with MTV’s sister cable channels Nickelodeon, The Movie Channel, and the Arts & Entertainment Network (A&E). Lewis was relocated to Nashville from New York City to accept the position of National Media Director at RCA Records helping to shape the careers of top country stars such as Dolly Parton, Kenny Rogers, The Judds, and Alabama.

In 1985, Lewis opened her own PR firm, Pam Lewis and Associates (which later became PLA Media). In 1987, she formed award-winning Doyle/Lewis Management with partner Bob Doyle. The first client Lewis agreed to represent was an unknown Oklahoma crooner named Garth Brooks, who she worked with until 1994. Lewis also managed Trisha Yearwood‘s early career, landing her a record deal at MCA Records. Under Lewis’ guidance, Yearwood released her debut self-titled album in 1991, becoming the first female country musician to sell one million records off her first single “She’s In Love With The Boy.” The album went on to be certified double platinum, and Yearwood went on to win the Academy of Country Music award for Top Female Vocalist later that year. The two enjoyed a successful partnership which broke new ground in music winning all of the following: Performance Magazine’s “Country Music Managers of the Year” two consecutive years ’92 and ’93, Pollstar Award “Personal Manager of the Year ’92, Country Music Association’s “Artist Manager of the Year”, SRO Award ’01 (The first female executive to win this award), Nashville Business Journal’s 40 Under 40 listing in ’95 & ’96, Who’s Who in Executives, International Society of Poets Distinguished Member, Franklin Police Department Order of Excellence ’15 & Tennessee Association of Museums Award in recognition of superlative achievement for publications PR kit. Eventually, Doyle and Lewis parted ways, and Pam turned her focus solely to PLA Media. In 2003, Lewis made her first foray into the world of politics running for office of alderman-at-large in Franklin, Tennessee. She won a four-year term, and was the only female on the board for two years. She also served as Vice Mayor for one year, and was elected to the Franklin Planning Commission and Historic Zoning Commission. In 2016, she was voted as a one of the top Female Entrepreneur by Your Williamson Magazine, and was invited to be part of the 2017-2018 class of Leadership Franklin.

Lewis has served on or chaired multiple committees, including: The Tennessee State Museum, Tennessee First Lady Andrea Conte’s You Have The Power, BRIDGES Domestic Violence Center, Sister Cities of Franklin, Battlefield Commission, mayor-appointed Franklin Housing Commission, Nashville Historic Commission, Historic Cemetery Commission, ARC Board and the Tennessee Preservation Trust.

Her other community outreach efforts include historic preservation and green space causes, women and children’s advocacy, educational scholarships, fair housing and environmental and animal rights protection. Since its inception, the Pam Lewis Foundation has given away a million dollars to numerous charities. She has been recognized for her business success/entrepreneurship, community outreach and preservation efforts by the Metro Nashville Historic Commission, Franklin Tennessee Heritage Foundation, African American Heritage Foundation, Tennessee State Museum and Tennessee Preservation Trust. In 2017, she produced a documentary of African American remembrances and contributions and was honored to give the commencement address at her alma mater Wells College, Aurora, New York in May 2017. She is a 2020 graduate of Leadership Middle Tennessee.

This week I’m talking with my friend Chad Segura who is the Vice President of Publishing at Centricity Music in Franklin, TN. He’s been a publisher in the Christian music, country music and sync licensing markets for two decades. We are discussing the differences between marketing and publicity, details about what music publishing is and what Centricity Music Publishing is looking for when they sign new staff writers to their roster. Plus, the importance of internships if you are wanting to work for a publishing company and the baseline component to be successful in any area of the music industry.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*VP of Music Publishing for Centricity Music.

*I Played music growing up and went to Belmont as a vocal performance major and realized during orientation week that I didn’t like the technical aspect of what that would require so I transferred to the music business program.

*I went from performance focused to business focused which turned out to be the perfect fit for me.

*I did an internship in publishing and an internship in marketing for a label.

*The publishing internship was not great for me. I did the work that needed to be done but really didn’t learn a lot.

*The people at the record label internship let me speak into ideas and giving me a voice into marketing campaigns and including me in business lunches when it made sense.

*You should always be learning and getting new experiences in an internship. Not only getting to work on projects and have input but also getting to interact with people.

*After college I transitioned from the internship into a full time position at Sparrow Records which had been bought by EMI Christian Music Group.

*My first job was in publicity which is promoting those artists to outside entities that can let the consumer know about them. Magazines, blogs, social media, etc.

*After a year my boss moved to marketing and allowed me to move with her which was letting the consumer know about the product. CDs, tapes, streaming, etc.

*EMI was creating a publishing role called “catalog development manager” that I got hired for which was getting into the song catalog and figuring out ways to monetize that.

*I’m passionate about great songs and songwriters and helping their songs find homes and outlets and streams of revenue.

*At Centricity Publishing we work with two distinct groups of writers: Staff writers that write for other people and artist writers that write for their own artistry.

*My role is to head up the publishing company and oversee all aspects of the business.

*Publishing is broken up into two parts: The creative side and the administrative side.

*The creative side is everything with the writers and songs finding opportunities for them and generating revenue, etc.

*The administrative side is all the details that have to happen in order for this to not just be a hobby.

*If nobody’s tracking it, registering it, licensing it, collecting revenue, etc. then we don’t have a business.

*We are trying to find talent, find songs.

*We have writers that are signed to us (staff or artist), but we also do single song agreements where we identify a song that we think we can help it find a place.

*Regarding single songs contracts we sign that song because we usually become aware of it

*We don’t take songs that people randomly send us mainly for legal reasons. It can be dangerous to accept unsolicited music which is something we didn’t ask for directly from someone.

*Most likely you know someone that knows a publisher, so have them listen to it and see if they can send it for you if they believe in it.

*It’s way better for us to get it from a trusted source where they can vet it.

*Be affiliated with a PRO - BMI, ASCAP or SESAC

*They are people that publishers trust and can be an advocate for you and they can send to us if they think it is a good song. They are putting their reputation on the line.

*Sometimes we do a sync writers event where we invite unsigned writers along with our staff writers and some music supervisors to work on sync songs together with the understanding that if they do it, then it will be under a single song contract during the event.

*We also do the same thing for worship retreats.

*Finding staff writers is similar in the sense that we hear somebody is good. Sometimes its a person we known for years and they are coming out of a publishing deal and we see an opportunity to work with them exclusively. But, more often than not, we decide to work with someone exclusively after we have done a few single song contracts. Or we keep hearing about a writer from other people or our writers keep writing with a certain person and anything they do together seems great.

*Artist writers are their own thing. They are writing almost exclusively for their own artistry and that’s it’s own very specific thing.

*Staff writers each have specific skill sets and leanings towards different genres or strengths so for us we are very intentional about that. Knowing how many producer/writers we need and are they different enough from each other to where they are not stepping on each other.

*In some cases you need multiple’s of one thing because there isn’t enough to go around.

*How many great lyricists do we have and people who are great at concepts or melodically strong.

*It’s knowing that balance of how much can we physically work with and also do they fit our roster.

*Most importantly for me is do I love this person. I want to see them win. Do they fit what we do and our culture and our work style and we think we can enhance what they do.

*They are plenty of people I love but either we don’t have room or they don’t fit what we do.

*It’s very relational for us.

*The bar though is amazing talent. That’s the baseline.

*We wouldn’t be talking if we didn’t think there was something here in it’s rawest form was pretty special.

*Then we have to figure if and how they fit into what we do and do we fit them.

*I’m not quick to rush into longterm deals with anybody.

*When we enter into a deal with somebody, whatever the term is, my hope is always when the end of that term is done we are trying to figure out how to do the next one.

*the hope is that it will be a long term thing for years and years and everyone will be better for having partnered together.

*Some writers we pay a salary upfront and some we don’t. They all need to be bi-vocational.

*Writers are paid advances on their future royalties which they have to pay back if they song makes money.

*It’s the best loan you’ll ever get because you don’t have to pay it back if they song never makes money.

*Advances are much less than they used to be. Getting an advance or not is negotiable. Some writers want one and some don’t.

*If you get paid an advance for a long time and something big happens and you get cut and generates a decent amount of money, when that comes in you’ve basically already gotten that money so you’re just digging out of the whole that you have. Sometimes that is not as satisfying for people because it feels like your catching up to where I am now and you’ve already spent that money.

*Some people need that upfront, regular payment for budgeting purposes, etc.

*A lot of our writers are doing other things as well. Some are producer for major labels and independently, some are teachers, etc. to create multiple streams of income.

*If you want to work for a publishing company, it’s to be in the cities where they are doing that.

*You need to be willing to learn and try to get your foot in the door.

*If you’re not enrolled in school, it’s harder to get internships especially at the bigger companies because of how they are set up.

*Smaller companies like ours you do not have to be school in to get an internship, so find places to learn and pour in and get a job so you can pay for life while you are trying to do that.

*Internships are one of the best ways to learn the thing and get your foot in the door and let people know who you are.

*As a writer - write!

*If you want to be professional writer, you need to already be a writer. Develop that craft, hone it, know how to write on your own and with others.

*Always try to write with people who are better than you.

*The way you get on our radar is by delivering great music through a trusted source if you don’t know us directly and if you do, building that relationship.

*Be excellent at what you’re doing.

*I am always looking for people that are phenomenal talent.

*Work ethic and ability to do what needs to be done and have a great attitude.

*Be teachable.

*www.centricitymusic.com

Chad Segura began his career at Sparrow Records in 1996, after graduating from Belmont University, in Nashville, TN. His first role was in the publicity department, followed by a stint on the artist development team. And while he enjoyed aspects of both, it wasn’t until 1998 when he joined the publishing team at EMI Christian Music Publishing (now Capitol CMG Publishing), that he found his true passion for working with songs and songwriters.  After several years, at EMI, he then went on to head the publishing division of competitor, Word Entertainment, for several more, before starting and running his own publishing company, Meld Music, in partnership with Fair Trade Services. In the summer of 2015, Chad made the move to Centricity Music, where he currently heads up their publishing division. Over the course of his career, he has had the pleasure of working with a “who’s who” list of Christian recording artists, and songwriters, and he’s still as passionate as ever about the work that he gets to do.

This week we are wrapping up season 1 of the YOU CAN Make A Living In The Music Industry Podcast! I am saying “thank you” to all of my listeners and asking for some interaction from you about this season as we prepare for season 2.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Thank you all for listening and supporting this podcast and it’s mission! I hope you are encouraged by it and now have some hard evidence to know that YOU CAN make a living in the music industry.

I want to thank all of my season 1 guests: Gordon Kennedy, Mark Irwin, Elizabeth Chan, Jared DePasquale, Doug DeAngelis, Keith Everette Smith, Jeremy Quarles, Hope Thal, Eric Kalver, Nate Sousa, Philip Peters, Lauren Lucas, Brent Milligan, Ben Phillips, Blaine Barcus, Jordan Childs, Eric Horner, Chad Segura, Eric Hurt, Jared Ribble, Wes Cole, Dave Cleveland, Bobby Rymer and my wife Keely Brooke Keith for helping me with the pilot episode!

I want you to interact with me by commenting on this episode through one of my Facebook pages: YOU CAN Make A Living In The Music Industry, Edenbrooke Music, John Martin Keith or Marty Keith, on instagram OR email me at contact@johnmartinkeith.com regarding the following:

Tell me your 3 favorite guests/episodes.

*1 thing you learned from that guest.

*What is 1 episode you have not listened to yet but are looking forward to checking out?

*I look forward to your answers!

*Let me know if you have certain guests you would like to hear from or certain topics you would like to know more about for season 2.

*Season 2 is well underway and will release before too long. I will post on all of my pages before it releases so you can be ready.

*Thank you all again for listening, learning and supporting this podcast! I am forever grateful.

This week I am talking with one of my favorite producers in music!  Brent Milligan currently produces and plays bass for Steven Curtis Chapman. He's also worked with Michael W. Smith, Charlie Peacock, The Backstreet Boys and more. We are discussing his journey as a producer, a touring musician and A&R rep as well as the importance of taking advice from the people you look up to and putting it into practice in your career by becoming really good at one thing as a time.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I grew up taking bass and cello lessons.

*I knew a couple of guys who went to Belmont University who were starting to have some success as musicians in Nashville playing for people that I had heard of and it got me thinking I could do it too.

*I got to Nashville because a mutual friend knew the artist/producer Charlie Peacock who was my favorite artist.

*I got a voicemail from Charlie Peacock saying he needed a bass player for a festival and he felt like he was supposed to call me.

*I had auditioned for Margaret Becker’s band previously and she referred me to Charlie.

*I met Charlie at his studio and played through some songs and got to know him, then we flew to Sunshine Fest in Minnesota and that was my first real gig.

*Charlie asked to hear my songs and decided to teach me songwriting and producing and use me as a bass player from time to time.

*I had an open invitation to sit on his studio couch and say nothing and just be invisible. Just listen and watch which I was going to do at every opportunity.

*He let me use his studio whenever he was not using it and I would go in and work and learn from his engineer Craig Hanson.

*Charlie taught me to not cross pollinate musical styles when recording. Don’t do jazz licks on a pop record, etc.

*He taught me a lot about being a family man and be a musician.

*It’s okay to be faithful to your wife, faithful to a church, not doing crazy stuff.

*I met Brent Bourgeois through Charlie and had done some work together and he called me and asked if I wanted to play bass for Michael W. Smith because he just got hired to be his band leader.

*I played for Michael W. Smith for 7 years. At the same time, I was also writing and recording demos and a band wanted to record one of my songs. The A&R guy asked who they wanted to produced their album and they liked my work. The A&R guy was Eddie DeGarmo who I had played bass for on his band DeGarmo and Key’s tour. He knew I produced the demo and wanted to get me work producing and asked them if they wanted me to produce their album.

*Everyone I’ve worked with so far has been by referrals and relationships.

*Start building competencies .

*Charlie said that If you establish a competency as a producer or bass player, then people will be more likely to interested in your production. As opposed to just walking up to them and saying I want to produce.

*If you establish competency as a songwriter or musician, people will take you way more serious when you say you want to produce records.

*After playing for Michael W. Smith, I got asked to do A&R at a label and got off the road for 2 1/2 years.

*Then I got a call to start working for Steven Curtis Chapman. I had subbed in for his bass player over the years so we had a relationship. He heard a record I produced and asked if I would produce his next record Beauty Will Rise.

*Even when you’ve been successful, there is still that voice inside that says you’re not good enough.

*When producing with Steven Curtis Chapman, he usually brings in a voice memo and I have him track a guitar to a click track, then I will make a sketch of what I think might work by building tracks and a sound around his scratch track, then I send him an mp3 to see what he thinks and getting adjustments from him.

*Then he either thinks it great and keep going with it or he likes certain parts about it but maybe wants other parts to go in a different direction. I’m trying to get guidance from him, then once we get the course set, then I’ll start getting live instruments tracked.

*Then he’ll come in and sing and do bgv’s.

*Picking players and mixing engineers for an album is usually a collaboration between me and the artist.

*I became the head of A&R at Forefront Records because their guy left and they asked Charlie Peacock to be their interim A&R and he had to find his replacement and thought I would be good for the position.

*An A&R person does project management by helping the artist think through direction musically and think through song selection, producer choices, making sure there are songs that work for radio.

*You’re helping the artist turn in an album that’s going to help them with their career the most.

*You’re the go between for the artist and the label.

*Start with developing one competency.

*If you want to be a producer, start producing tracks. Learn to play your laptop like an instrument.

*Start doing whatever you aspire to do at whatever level you’re able to do it.

*Start putting up videos of you playing your instrument on You Tube and make a presence for yourself.

*If you have content that people can see what you do, that let’s people know your talent level and can open opportunities for you.

*You can make videos everyday and get your name out there.

*If you reach out to someone and ask them for coffee, they will usually meet with you and give you advice.

*It comes back to relationships.

*Be interested in people.

Brent Milligan is a Nashville based producer and musician. Originally from Baton Rouge Louisiana, he has lived in Nashville for many years with his wife Sarah and three kids, and has toured with or worked on albums by Michael W Smith, Steven Curtis Chapman, The Backstreet Boys, Toby Mac, DC talk, Paul Baloche, and many others. He can usually be found in his studio, spending time with his family, playing tennis, or making chocolate chip cookies.

This week I am talking with my friend Lauren Light who is a fellow singer-songwriter and sync artist. We are talking about booking for festivals, fairs and conventions and the importance of working with The Association of Festivals and Events to get in that market as well as touring in the college market and what you need to do to be successful in that area.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about: 

*Co-owning the sync licensing agency Two Oh Six Music. *Booking for bands and artists. *Booking for festivals, fairs and conventions. *Buyers come to conventions once a year in different states to buy acts. *The Association of Festivals and Events. *When you’re booking, calling the venue is the most effective. *Working multiple streams of income in music. *Touring in the college market. *The importance of showcasing to book shows in the college market. *Have an agent already if you want to be successful in the college market. *www.naca.org *Conventions for booking house concerts. *Artist age range to perform in the college market.
*Networking is key. *www.twoohsix.com *Lauren’s podcast called http://theenlightenedmusician.com *www.laurenlight.com

Bio:  Pop Singer-Songwriter, Lauren Light is a force to be Reckoned with.  The Berklee grad has played over 800 shows, in over 30 states across the US.  Playing a mix of Festivals, Colleges, music venues, and many more.  On stage, she artfully crafts the perfect blend of pop, rock, and powerfully soulful vocals.
 After a trip to CA in 2018, she co-founded a successful Sync Licensing company based in Los Angeles specializing in custom music for placement in TV, Film, Trailers, and Advertisements. You can hear her music on a range of projects from a roller coaster in TN to the newest episode of Marvels hit show “Runaways”.   The company also likes to give back to the music community hosting bi-yearly workshops in LA to teach others how to get started in the Sync world and pair producers/writers and artists together.   

In her free time, you’ll see Lauren drinking insane amounts of coffee in NC, co-writing as much as possible and releasing content on her Music Business Podcast “The Enlightened Musician.”

This week, I am talking with Natasha Owens in front of a live audience at Lifest music festival in Osh Kosh, WI. as she shares how her first ever concert she performed was opening for Michael W. Smith as well as touring and learning life lessons from Jason Crabb. We discuss what is like to tour with a full band and the costs and challenges of owning your own production and tour bus and paying a large crew on the road. Plus, when doing music ministry, God does not call the equipped, He equips who He calls.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Working through depression and anxiety.  *Overcoming adversity. *The reality of touring on a bus. *How to find venues to perform for. *The importance of having a website. *Having your own band and crew on the road. *The cost of putting on a show.  *The bus driver’s schedule. *Having sponsors for a tour. *Have music recorded to show people. *Have video to sell yourself to venues. *Record labels sign artists based on their You Tube and social media.

BIO: “There’s something intrinsic about humanity and a survival instinct. Most of us will do whatever we can to keep our head above water, to take one more breath in and out…to keep breathing and keep our heart beating. But God’s intent for His children, His creation, wasn’t limited to survival. He intends for us to thrive. “I have come that you may have life to the full.” (John 10:10).

For Natasha Owens that verse isn’t merely a comfort or a pick-me-up… It’s a decree. A mantra for life…and it is the very thing that has turned her darkest days into a light that is too bright not to share.

“Life is hard and heartache, tragedy and loss aren’t selective or rare. But for many people, as soon as they make it through the given crisis, they stop there. They stagnate,” she says, reflecting on her own season of loss and the dark days when all she could do was breathe in and out. A few years ago, Natasha’s father, 58 at the time, was doing a simple task he’d done hundreds of times before. There was no drama. There was no build up. There was no warning. While cleaning his guns one day, one misfired, placing a bullet in his chest. He died soon thereafter.

“After the shock wore off, the depression set in,” she shares. “For some reason, our pastor came to me and said he thought I should be the music minister at the church.”

After a lot of time in prayer, alongside her husband, Natasha accepted the position. Soon, the music, the mission and the ministry captivated her heart. It stole away the listlessness and confusion and hopelessness. Week after week, as she poured herself into the music of the church, thereby pouring herself into the lives of all who comprised that church body, the Holy Spirit poured into her a peace, a reassurance and a drive to take this opportunity even further than she could have imagined.

Unbeknownst to Natasha at the time, those songs lent more than strength. They laid the foundation for what would become the next chapter in her heart, her healing and her ministry. Vacillating between the church platform and a writer’s room, Natasha soon had another collection of songs; songs of restoration, hope and peace. At the prompting of a friend she took her music into the recording studio and created her first full-length project. It didn’t take long for the album to circulate within the music industry, opening doors left and right. The brand-new recording artist landed an opening slot for CCM icon, Michael W. Smith and she was invited to tour with Dove Award Artist of the Year recipient, Jason Crabb.

With each new opportunity came another chance for Natasha to share her heart, her message and her hero. The songs that had been her healing, her comfort and her restoration were becoming that very thing to people around the world.  Following the success of her last project, industry heavyweight and iconic producer Ed Cash agreed to produce her next project and was as excited as Natasha about the message that was about to emerge.

Each track, while beautifully unique in their own right, illuminated the idea of rising. With lyrics that are inviting, melodies that are compelling and delivery that drives home the truth within, these songs allow listeners to be honest and vulnerable in the most challenging and intimidating circumstances.

“He doesn’t call the equipped. He equips who He calls,” she says with stalwart conviction. “That has stuck with me and given me the courage to do what He’s called me to. If God is with me, I can do all things. I can do more than survive. I can thrive. If others can see the power of God to do such a work in my life and then translate it to their own…to really believe that they can do more than just get by, I’ve done my job.”

Show Notes:

Today I am talking with my buddy Nate "The Sooze" Sousa. He is the music director at Fellowship Bible Church in Brentwood, TN and he is also one of the founders of the guitar amp profiling company Tone Junkie which records and captures amp sounds for digital amplifiers that guitar players can buy online. Our conversation covers what is needed when you want to work as a worship leader or music director in a church of any size.  Plus, we talk about the ever present need for strong relationships in ministry as well as how putting together multiple jobs in music can allow you to make a great living without the need to feel like you have to be famous to do so.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Nate is the music director at Fellowship Bible Church in Brentwood, TN.

*My dad helped start a band called The Motowns which later became Tower of Power.

*Dad became a worship leader and I was raised in a musical household. I became the drummer for my dad at church when I was in 5th grade.

*I realized my dad did this for a living and I saw that you can make a living doing music.

*I went to college at Azusa Pacific University and majored in music and took theory and arranging and hymnology (the study of hymns) which was a great overview of old church music.

*I decided to change majors from music to theology because I liked the church history part of it. I wanted to be musically proficient and know how theory worked but I also needed to know the Bible and needed a solid foundation for Truth.

*Then I went to Fuller Theological Seminary and studied Theology (The Study of God) and Art and put my two passions together that I wanted to be doing with my life.

*How did you transition from college into the workforce with what you studied? I started looking for churches to work for as a worship pastor or music director.

*Music Director - someone who helps lead the band, creates charts, makes backing tracks using Ableton, arranging, running point on recordings if you can record new songs, etc. It’s a lot of behind the scenes, a lot of prep work. It’s still pastoring people and meeting with people and having those relationships. It doesn’t include that upfront singing and speaking leadership to the congregation.

*My first job was as a worship leader at a small church and even though that particular environment wasn’t my sweet spot I knew it was something I should do.

*Start saying “yes” when something comes along in the realm of what you would like to do, maybe just give a try.

*When you’re just starting out and looking for work it doesn’t help to be super picky at that point necessarily.

*Sometimes it does if your making sure that you are theologically on base with what you know to be true and that the church is also teaching that also because there can be miscommunication and issues if those things don’t line up.

*Make sure your beliefs line up with the church’s beliefs.

*Besides that, you should take any opportunity you can get when you are first starting out.

*I worked as worship leader at that church for six months, then there was a built in check up time with the pastor to see how things were going.

*I learned that singing and leading was not my strong suit so I left that position.

*I learned what I’m good at and not so good at and what I have passion around and don’t have passion around.

*One of the outcomes of being a “yes man” is saying I got experience.

*I started to hone in on becoming a music director and helping worship leaders to take details off their plate.

*Music directors are used mainly in larger churches. Smaller churches don’t need one, they need a worship pastor/music director all in one.

*Wanting a music director position at a church means the number of opportunities goes down exponentially because most churches are smaller and don’t need that position separated from the worship pastor position.

*I got invited by a friend to play at Friend's Church in CA. for a young adults group on Thursday nights which paid a little bit.

*During that time I was finishing school and waiting tables.

*Then they asked me to play on Sundays. I saw a gap that needed to be filled there.

*I built great relationships there. I met the music director there and realized this guy had the job I wanted.

*Find people that are doing what you want to be doing and draft them and follow along what they are doing.

*I would hang out with him all the time and ask lots of questions and go to his office and learn things from him and he basically started mentoring me.

*He showed me Sibelius Notation Software for creating music charts.

*Over time he would ask me to fill in for him to lead the band when he was out of town to the point it became a part time music director assistant position.

*Be valuable to people.

*Go above and beyond.

*After me being involved for about six years, the music director ended up leaving and I was asked to step into that role full time.

*Aaron Blanton from Nashville moved to Friend’s Church to be the one of the worship pastors and we became great friends and worked together to bring the church into a new era musically.

*What does it take to be a music director at a church?

*Best case scenario is handing musicians information they can trust. It’s the skill to chart out music that players can understand.

*Using Planning Center to make sure people have all the resources they need for a Sunday service.

*Make sure mp3 songs are in the right key for rehearsing at home.

*It’s a lot of administration work.

*It’s very relationship based as well.

*I’m the most direct contact with the band people.

*I pastor the worship team differently than the worship leaders would because I have more contact with them because I’m their first point of contact.

*Aaron Blanton moved back to Nashville and became the worship pastor here at Fellowship. He called me and said there was an opening for a music director at Fellowship and my wife and I prayed about it and I came out to interview and felt this was a great place to be.

*The relationship with Aaron was a huge reason to be able to make the move.

*Part of my life in music has been piecing together multiple streams of income.

*While being church music director in California, I became a guitar teacher which allowed me to become a better player.

*I played for a country cover band in Southern California because of a relationship where a friend asked me to play in his band.

*Those things allowed me to do music full time and quit the jobs that were not music related.

*I decided if I was going to be away from my family working then I would like it to be in my wheelhouse.

*I wanted jobs that would all be connected using my skill as a musician to earn money for my family.

*When I moved to Tennessee in addition to music directing at Fellowship I started working with a company called Tone Junkie because of a relationship with the owner John Sullivan.

*We bonded over music gear and got together a couple of times a month and eventually started recording the sessions for people who might enjoy hearing us play and talk about gear.

*We started getting some listeners and subscribers but it took off when John bought a Kemper digital guitar amp which captures the sound of an amp and puts it in the Kemper.

*We started profiling (recording) our amps into the Kemper and offering them for sale online and we sold thousands of our profiles all over the world over the past couple of years.

*We have a website, www.tonejunkiestore.com and podcast.

*You Tube Channel

*Aaron Blanton moved to work for Integrity Music and they needed someone to make worship charts for their company and he asked me to chart music and be a “Song Setter” for that company so I work for them part time.

*A “Song Setter” uses computer programs like Finale or Sibelius where you can input music into charts using just slashes to making scores for movies.

*It’s having the ability to hear music and write it out for musicians to play in churches.

*Integrity Music wants multiple versions with different parts like guitar, piano, vocals etc. so I turn in ten files for each song.

*What is some advice you would give to people wanting to get into playing worship music?

*Don’t be afraid to do jobs that are not 100% what you want.

*Ask what are the reasons to say "yes" and give a job a chance.

*Get the experience. If you wait and wait you still don’t have experience, so jump in with people that are willing to give you a chance.

*Large churches or organizations are not going to hire you to lead thousands of people without experience. Start in smaller churches or venues and get experience leading people and work your way up from there.

*I was not in big bands or anything where everyone knew my name. I found joy in playing church music and it didn’t have to be a stepping stone for something else.

*But if you get invited to go play for someone or do session work or something and that is what you are trying to do, go do it.

*Whatever you are wanting to do, find people who are already doing it and ask them if you can get with them and ask them questions.

*Don’t have an entitlement mentality and assume that you deserve something. That works against you.

*Be humble and generous and have gratitude.

*Pay attention to how you come across to people because people can sense that and it is written all over your face.

www.fellowshipbiblechurch.org to watch live or recorded services.

www.weareworship.com is where you can get charts I create for Integrity Music.

Nate Sousa grew up playing music from an early age, being taught by his father. After studying music in college, he went on to teach private lessons, direct music in churches, play on the road for several years, and do the weekend warrior band thing. Piecing together music gigs has been Nate’s bread and butter for the last 15 years. He is currently the Director of Music at Fellowship Bible church in Brentwood, TN; while also helping to create content for Tone Junkie TV and We Are Worship.  

This week I’m talking with Rehya Stevens. Rehya is a very successful indie pop artist who also makes a great living in the sync world. She’s had placements on Lifetime, Peacock, Disney +, ABC, Hallmark and more, plus, multiple commercial ads. We are discussing filling a hole needed in the sync industry with Christmas music, how to reach out to outlets who review music and how to take the next best step when things don’t work out the way you hope.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *Making Christmas music for sync. *Learn what you need to learn, then throw it away. *Find a way to marry your artist self with your crafting self. *Keep making music you believe in. *Being a priority on someones list. *How to be your own PR agent as an artist. *Bloom where you are planted. *https://www.submithub.com/ *How to reach out to outlets who review music. *What’s the next best step when things don’t work out? *Be genuine and do your research in sync. *Not hearing anything, doesn’t mean something’s not happening. *Show appreciation for your team. *Don’t abandon your authenticity. *https://rehyastevens.com/

BIO: Rehya Stevens is not only a gifted and highly praised singer-songwriter, she's also an insightful observer when it comes to a vast spectrum of human emotions. Granted, it’s a rare artist who can fully plough through the tangled web of feelings and experiences encountered during the often confounding journey that encompasses life’s entirety, but Rehya has been given the gift of not only perception, but also sensitivity, and with that - the ability to make music that is readily relatable to everyone fortunate enough to find it. 

Rehya is especially adept at writing music that enhances the joys of the holiday season - and in so doing, rekindles the sentiment and kinship that’s so integral to that precious time of year. It’s especially important now, given the distancing, distrust and trepidation that have become so commonplace of late. Thankfully, Rehya’s music provides a formidable space to reinforce the bonds of brotherhood and fellowship that are so essential, not only at Christmas, but every day of the year.

This week I’m talking with Mike Gowen, president of Milestone Publicity in Nashville. Milestone teams with clients to generate awareness in the media to effectively promote their brands, singles, albums, tours and much more. We are discussing educating potential customers, how to deal with nightmare situations with clients and the difference in repping an emerging artist vs. an icon.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Scouting for talent. *A scout for PR is similar as A&R for a label.  *Finding what type of artists are getting coverage and how we can fill those slots for our company. *You are educating potential customers. *PR assistant is watches PR campaigns. You are supporting the publicist.  *Working with Kiefer Sutherland, Billy Idol, Tommy Emmanuel, Dave Stewart of the Eurythmics and more. *The difference in repping an emerging artist vs. an Icon. *Working with emerging artists you are trying to get them more exposure. You’re a cheerleader. *Working with Icons you are trying to manage exposure. You’re a security guard. *How to deal with nightmare situations with clients. *You pitch interviews for magazines 4-5 months before. *PR introduces new potential fans to emerging artists. *Booking late night tv is similar to pitching for a magazine article. *Say “yes” to every opportunity. *https://www.milestonepublicity.com

Milestone Publicity—founded by industry professional Mike Gowen and now headquartered in Nashville—is a full-service public relations firm built to represent the needs of our music and lifestyle clients in the modern age of media. We team with clients to generate awareness in the media to effectively promote their brands, singles, albums, tours and much more. With a combined 25 years of experience, Milestone Publicity delivers well-executed campaigns in the current media landscape for its eclectic roster of clients. Every campaign is built around client goals and Milestone has the experience, relationships and tools to attain those goals. 

BIO: Already possessing a prior decade of earned experience in the music industry, with a bulk of that time specializing in public relations and identifying the key elements to successful promotion, Mike founded Milestone Publicity in 2019. Specifically, he has worked with icons such as: Aerosmith’s Joe Perry, Andy Grammer, Billy Idol, Brian Setzer, Dada Life, Dream Theater, Dwight Yoakam, Godsmack, Heart, Jerry Douglas, John Fogerty, Kiefer Sutherland, LIVE, Michael Franti & Spearhead, Sex Pistols’ Steve Jones, System of a Down’s John Dolmayan, The Smashing Pumpkins, Tommy Emmanuel and Wynonna Judd, to name a few. Utilizing his close relationships with the full-spectrum of media, Mike strategically designs campaigns to deliver results and meet client goals. Whether he’s consulting or spearheading a national press campaign on behalf of a client, Mike’s vision at Milestone is to ensure that every client feels a wealth of value is being provided.

This week I am talking with Richard Casper of CreatiVets in Nashville, TN. Richard is a military veteran that suffered a brain injury in the war and has since found healing through music. He co-founded the non-profit CreatiVets to help other veterans write songs with hit songwriters that help them communicate their thoughts and feelings to start the healing process. Richard also co-founded the songwriting app We Should Write Sometime that allows writers from all over to connect with other songwriters.  We are discussing learning to write music to cope with trauma, starting multiple music related companies, changing the way music is accessible and how your anxieties and depression have to be outweighed by your excitement when writing.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *Being in the military and guarding the President. *Losing friends in combat and suffering a brain injury. *Taking art and creative writing in college to help with the brain injury. *Learning to write music to cope. *Connecting with Nashville writers at a songwriter’s round in Chicago. *Meeting and writing with songwriter Mark Irwin and how that began the healing process. *Bringing vets to Nashville to write with pro writers who can help them communicate their thoughts and feelings to help the start healing. *Bring in people around you to be successful. *Starting the non-profit CreatiVets. *CreatiVets helps wounded veterans heal through arts and music. *The importance of networking with people in the industry. *Creating a partnership with Big Machine Records to release music. *Starting We Should Write Sometime app. *Changing the way music is accessible. *We Should Write Your Song - custom songs for people. *weshouldwritesometime.com *How writers can write for We Should Write Sometime or We Should Write Your Song. *CreatiVets’ goal is trying to end veteran suicide. *Your anxieties and depression have to be outweighed by your excitement. *www.creativets.org *You need to be in a music town to do this professionally. *Have one person who will champion you. *https://creativets.org/

BIO: RICHARD CASPER | Co-Founder & Executive Director Richard co-founded CreatiVets and currently serves as the CreatiVets organization’s executive director.  Richard served four years as an infantryman in the United States Marine Corps, with a combat deployment in Fallujah, Iraq.  During his deployment, he was hit by four IEDs in just four short months, causing him to suffer from a traumatic brain injury.  Upon returning home, Richard found it hard to adjust and suffered from PTS until he discovered the healing power of music and art.  After experiencing firsthand the impact music and art had on his own recovery, Richard co-founded CreatiVets to help other veterans who are suffering. CreatiVets’ goal is to offer opportunities for relief and healing for the men and women who have sacrificed so much for our country.  Our purpose is to use various forms of art, including songwriting, visual arts, music, and creative writing, to help disabled veterans cope with service-related trauma (i.e., post-traumatic stress, or PTS) by fostering self-expression in a way that allows them to transform their stories of trauma and struggle into an art form that can inspire and motivate continued healing. Through compassion, we are helping veterans live again. Veterans suffering from PTS re-experience traumatic events years and even decades later, reliving the helplessness, fear, and horror associated with their traumatic event. Such strong, negative reactions often lead to anxiety, sadness, anger, depression, guilt, shame, irritability, behavior changes, and thoughts of suicide. These feelings can cause the individual to avoid environments that trigger reminders of the trauma, resulting in isolation and withdrawal from society and often leading to marital problems, difficulty in parenting, job instability, drug and alcohol abuse, violence, and even suicide. CreatiVets has served veterans from 49 states!   According to the Department of Defense, one in five veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are diagnosed with PTS – over 300,000 veterans by the end of 2012. The social and economic costs of PTS are immense, and a study posted by the Military Times in 2015 found that the veteran suicide rate in the United States is 20 suicides per day and 14 of those don’t seek help from the VA. Veterans now account for 20% of suicides in the United States. Creative art forms like those offered by the CreatiVets’ programs have shown tremendous effectiveness in reducing PTS symptoms, reducing the severity of depression that often accompanies PTS, and improving the quality of life for veterans and their family members. Over the last two decades, researchers and clinicians have found the relief and healing provided by expressive writing, music and art is possible because these forms of expression do not necessitate exposure to the facts of the trauma, and also allow the individual to avoid the stigma of receiving mental health treatment. In modeling the CreatiVets programming, we have structured our sessions in a way that allows the participating veterans to express their thoughts and feelings without having to verbalize or directly confront the trauma. Our artistic outlets focus on creating an environment in which the veteran feels safe, providing an expressive medium that does not threaten that feeling of safety and helping veterans live again in turn.

This week I am talking with my long time friend John Dougherty who is the director of Lifest Music Festival in Osh Kosh, WI and Nashville, TN. We are talking about his rise through the ranks from a stage hand to the man in charge of one of the largest Christian Music Festivals in the country.  Also, we are discussing the importance of being kind to festival workers when you are an artist performing at a festival and the steps you can take if you are interested in working at a festival.

PLUS: Lifest is back in business this summer after having to take 2020 off.  I will be performing, hosting a stage, interviewing artists and hosting a LIVE version of the podcast and you can be there! WI - July 8-11, 2021 and TN - July 29-31, 2021. you can get a $5 discount on Adult Full Event Tickets by using the coupon code: JMK at checkout. Go to www.lifest.com for details. I hope to see you there and meet you in person!

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Being the director of Lifest Music Festival, one of the largest Christian music festivals in the country. *The Christian Festival Association.  *The importance of becoming a member of the CFA if you run a festival. *Owning your own gear, lighting and sound system so you can run shows for you and other bands. *Having a business mindset even as a teenager. *Reinvesting in your gear to build a better set up. *Working your way up the ladder working at a festival. *www.lifepromotions.org *The job description of a stage manager at a festival. *What a production manager does. *What “buying” production means. *Making sure the attendee gets the best experience. *Check your ego at the door. *Keep your attendee in mind. *You can make a living outside of a major music city as an artist, producer and/or festival. *The promoter books bands to play the main stage.  You won’t get a main stage slot by sending an email. *Personal connections are so important. *Promoters are checking out your social media to see if you are talking positive or negative about your previous venues. *Be positively engaging your audience. *How you get paid to play a music festival. *What determines if you get to play again the following year. *Stage managers are the gate keepers. *The importance of being kind to lower level workers. *Everything you do can make or break you. *If you want to work a festival, take any job that is offered to you. *How to get a job working at a festival. *www.lifest.com

BIO John Dougherty grew up in Appleton Wisconsin and has stayed a home town boy. He has played drums most of his life and has toured with various bands around the region while building his production company, Welcome Place Productions, which offers sound and lighting for bands and other shows.  He also works for Life! Promotions which envisions a place where youth can express and celebrate their faith in a positive and safe environment. John is the director of Lifest, an outdoor music festival, which allows the entire family to come together for worship, fellowship and teaching with more than 100 Christian artists and speakers. Lifest is one of the largest Christian music festivals in the nation. 

This week I’m talking with five-time GRAMMY Nominated and platinum-selling songwriter and recording artist Dante Bowe at Lifest 2022. Dante made history as the first artist to have the greatest number of simultaneous GRAMMY nominations in both Gospel & Christian genres with 3 solo and 2 group award nominations for the 64th Annual GRAMMY Awards. We are discussing why hearing “no” repeatedly helps to perfect your songwriting, the process of putting a live show together and that if you don’t have a vision for yourself as an artist, your label will give you one.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Getting “no” helps to perfect songwriting. *What it’s like to co-write. *The process of putting a live show together. *Pros and cons of being a solo artist vs. being part of a group. *How to keep a label happy. *Know who you are. *If you don’t have a vision, they will give you one. *Know your core values. *https://www.dantebowe.com/

BIO:

Dante Bowe is a five-time GRAMMY Nominated and platinum-selling songwriter and recording artist from Rockingham, NC, now based in Nashville, TN. 

Known for his distinctive raspy vocals, Dante made history as the first artist to have the greatest number of simultaneous GRAMMY nominations in both Gospel & Christian genres with 3 solo and 2 group award nominations for the 64th GRAMMY Awards including Best Gospel Performance/Song twice for “Voice of God” and "joyful,” Best Gospel Performance/Song for “Wait on You” with Elevation Worship & Maverick City Music; Best 5 Gospel Album with Maverick City Music for Jubilee: Juneteenth Edition, and Best Contemporary Christian Music Album with Elevation Worship & Maverick City Music.

Dante's independent debut Son of a Father (2017), rose to No. 21 on the Billboard Charts establishing a sound that was uniquely Dante - an infectious mix of soul, gospel, and R&B. In 2018, after spending time on the road as a backing vocalist, Dante left the security of steady employment to take center stage--His star was on the rise. He was a co-writer on the platinum-selling track “In Spite of Me [feat. Ciara]” for Tasha Cobbs Leonard, and Maverick City Music’s biggest hit to date, “Promises."  

With his familial roots in his heart, and an optimistic future in his sights, Dante released his sophomore album and Bethel Music label debut circles earlier last year. circles debuted at No. 7 on the Billboard Top Gospel Albums chart, and the chart-topping GRAMMY Nominated single, ‘joyful,' debuted No. 1 on the Billboard’s Gospel Chart, and No. 3 on Hot Gospel Songs. The introspective album which reflects on the death of his grandfather and the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020, debuted at No. 7 on the Billboard Top Gospel Albums chart, making it the highest solo charting position of Bowe's career. He closed out the season with top ten placements on three different Billboard Year End Charts, hailed as the Top New Gospel Artist of 2021--No. 9 overall for Top Gospel Artist, No. 4 for Top Male Gospel Artist, and No. 4 on Top New Christian Artists. Last year, Bowe won his first Dove Award at the 52nd GMA Dove Awards for Contemporary Gospel Recorded Song of the Year for “joyful." The award-winning songwriter made history with “joyful” again and became the first artist to have his song chart on both the Billboard's Gospel Airplay and Christian Song charts, bridging the gap between Gospel and CCM formats. 

In June 2019, Bowe joined the Bethel Music Collective as a worship leader and songwriter, and also appears on Maverick City Music Volumes I & II as a songwriter. Dante believes that raising the level of authenticity in worship will cause cultures, generations, and denominations to unite in a worship movement by merging gaps and removing all boundaries.

The chart-topping artist has been featured on the Tamron Hall Show, Variety, Billboard, Entertainment Tonight, Vogue.com, and BET. Bowe is set to embark on his first Spring 2022 tour, ‘What Are We Waiting For? – The Tour," as a solo artist with four-time Grammy award winners & Pop Sensations, For King + Country. Dante Bowe's dominance in both the fashion and music industry is just beginning, and he is unstoppable.

This week I’m talking with my dear friend Carl Cartee who is the worship pastor at my home church Fellowship Bible Church in Brentwood, TN. We are talking about the importance of being discipled by a mentor when you are starting out as a worship leader and how you are a communicator using music as a means to encourage people.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about: *Being a worship pastor. *The importance of being discipled by a mentor when you’re a young worship leader. *Learning to transition from song to song. *Using communication and language to earn trust and build bridges. *People mirror what they see happening on stage. *If you’re not having a good time, they’re not having a good time. *You are a communicator using music as a means to encourage people. *Hustle beats talent every day. *To sign a pub or label deal nowadays you have to have a strong social media presence. *Relationships. *Most songs that get cut now have the artist involved as a writer as well. *Be a great track producer. *Fellowship Worship Residency - http://fellowshipworshipresidency.org/

BIO

Carl Cartee is a Dove Award and Covenant Award winning songwriter and recording artist. His songs have appeared on records across a broad spectrum of music from The Oak Ridge Boys to Elevation Worship. Carl is the Pastor of Worship And Arts at Fellowship Bible Church in Brentwood, TN where he directs the team that leads worship and releases music for the church as Fellowship Songs. Carl is married to Heather and they have four sons, Oak, Ezra, Abe and Ike.

This week I’m talking with my friend Mark Miller from the company Brave Enough which does concert booking for the college market.  We are discussing what it takes to get booked at colleges across the country and the importance of showcasing at either NACA or APCA which are the campus activities associations you have to use to get into this market.  Plus, we talk about the best music genres for the college markets.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Being an artist touring in the college market. *NACA - National Association of Campus Activities is main way to get booked for colleges. *You must submit audio or video samples to get a showcase. *Audio submissions have no chance of getting a showcase. *Student activities boards from all colleges come to NACA to book artists. *Create an atmosphere to set yourself apart from other acts. *How to help your sponsors make money. *Creating the booking agency Brave Enough for the college market. *Learning how to showcase for the college market through NACA. *Your submission video needs to be of cover songs that have been released in the last 5 years. *There are more opportunities for solo or duo acts on college campuses than bands. *Bands, duos and solo artists pay basically the same. *Standard base rate is $1250 + travel for the college market. *Rate can go up to $2500 once you’ve been around a while. *APCA - is similar but a for profit company. *If you’re not creating new content, you’re falling off the map. *You have to have some investment cash to get going. *You have to think of yourself as a business. *You have to be invested in yourself. *What Brave Enough is looking for when signing artists. *You have to be relevant to 18-24 year olds. *The best practices when booking shows with venues. *Be strategic in building your fanbase. *Don’t take any shortcuts. *The best music genres for college markets. *www.braveenough.com

BIO:

Mark Miller is the lucky guy married 10 years to Heather Miller, and proud dad of Rockwell and Juliette.  He also has the honor of serving over 400 colleges and universities and more than 50 artists and speakers through the two companies he founded and directs, Brave Enough Entertainment and Taikai Esports.  Prior to starting Brave Enough, Mark was a touring artist for more than a decade (half of that with Heather as the duo So Long Solo.) 

This week I’m talking with Glory Reinstein who is the owner of the sync licensing agency Song and Film which I am honored to work with.  We are talking about the day to day aspects of running a sync licensing agency, what to know when starting your own sync agency and the importance of the music needing to enhance, not distract from the story.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Being the owner of Song and Film sync licensing Agency.


*You need great production. *I look for great Americana music and great hip hop artists. *Music Supervisors want songs to breathe, not too wordy.   *Supes want stems as well as instrumental. *I work non-exclusively. *Licensing fee percentages. *Different genres of Christmas music that are requested. *The amount of briefs sent. *The song has to fit like a glove in a scene.  *The process of songs getting placed.


*Building trust with supervisors. *Day to day aspects of running a sync licensing agency. *Starting your own sync licensing agency. *The e-book “Thinking in Sync” by Amanda Kreig Thomas on Amazon. *Knowing what Music Supervisors really want. *www.songandfilm.com *“How To Make It In The New Music Business” by Ari Herstand on Amazon. *“Making Music Make Money” by Eric Beall *“All You Need To Know About The Music Business” by Donald S. Passman on Amazon. *Sync music needs to enhance, not distract from the story.

BIO

Glory Reinstein received her B.S. in Music Education at the University of Vermont and her M.S. at Central Connecticut State University. She taught music at the high school level in three different high schools over the course of 38 years. While teaching, she was a guest conductor for a few high school music festivals and served as President for one term for the Vermont Chapter of the American Choral Director’s Association as well as President for one term for the Vermont chapter of the Music Educators Association. Ms. Reinstein garnered four awards during her teaching career including Vermont Music Educator of the Year.  As a result of her son pursuing a singer/songwriter career, Glory got interested and involved in not only helping him with promotion and publicity, but also other local artists. After taking online courses at Berklee College of Music (Boston), she started her own business, Malletts Bay Music, and ran it while still teaching. In 2015, when she retired from teaching, she began working with the founder of Song And Film and eventually took over the business. Since then she has signed many new artists and has licensed several songs on their behalf. 

This week I’m talking with Chris Bragg and Travis Michaud of Ghostwriter Music here in Nashville and in L.A. Ghostwriter is one of the most sought after companies that creates exciting and emotional music put to the trailers we love to watch when anticipating the release of a new tv show or movie coming to theaters. Their music has been used in trailers for Thor: Love and Thunder, Sonic The Hedgehog, She-Hulk, Star Wars: Andor and so much more! We are discussing when Ghostwriter gets involved to write music for a trailer, how you get paid when creating music for trailers and the number 1 rule of writing music for trailers. These guys should know, they are some of the best in the business!

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *Prepping audio for trailer mixes. *What kinds of sounds to stay away from when adding sound design. *Practical effects vs. sound design. *When Ghostwriter gets involved to write music for a movie trailer. *Trailerizing Music. *Trailers get cut to the music, not the music to the trailer. *The Three act progression. *How many versions of songs can be used in a series of movie trailers. *Levels of approval needed. *When you get paid for making music for trailer. *You’re competing against multiple vendors for the same project. *How long it takes to complete a track for trailer. *Have pre-made templates ready in your DAW. *Save versions every time you make changes. *Print stems for every version to be safe. *Be consistent and organized. *The dark side of the trailer industry. *You’re on call 24/7. *Matching projects to composers. *How you get paid when creating music for trailers. *What Ghostwriter is looking for in composers. *Why you can’t always talk about the trailers you make music for. *The number 1 rule of writing music for trailers. *Never end a cue feeling satisfaction. *www.ghostwritermusic.com

BIO: Ghostwriter, since its inception has been an industry innovator and to some of our fiercest competitors, a disruptor. We strive to bring audio excellence to all our clients, big and small. The music we make is what separates us from our competition and the music you choose is what will make your project stick out from the rest. Whether you’re working on one of the most anticipated film campaigns, advertisements, video games, and TV promos, we are ready to work with you, so let’s make something special. Ghostwriter is, as the name suggests, the ones working behind the scenes to elevate a project to the next level.

photo by jasonwaitephotography.com

This week, I’m talking with Ben McDonald of the band Sidewalk Prophets in my first ever live recording with an audience at Lifest music festival in Osh Kosh, WI. With three major studio albums, five #1 hits, and eight top 5 songs under their belt, Sidewalk Prophets has solidified their place among the elite artists in Christian music. As a founding member, Ben has been one of the leading songwriters and guitar players in the band. We are discussing how to handle to hardships and successes of getting a band off the ground as well and the ever changing involvement Ben has in the band as he has recently stepped off of stage but continues to be a driving force behind the bands songwriting, creativity and success as the band’s manager.  Plus, we talk about the importance of being resilient in this industry to be successful.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*You have to write a lot of bad songs to find the good ones. *The importance of choosing a band name. *When starting out, play where you can as much as you can. *It’s a long term commitment. *How to contact artists to play your venue. *Working your way up the rung in the industry. *Resilience. *When things are hard, you can choose to quit or choose to go forward. *Practice your craft. *Write with people who are better than you. *Learn how to take criticism.

BIO:

Sidewalk Prophets is more than just music, and more than just entertainment we are family.  The band has a strong desire to make everyone feel loved and valued and the goal of this new on-line store is to make sure each person feels special. Dave Frey and Ben McDonald had no idea what was in store for them when their paths crossed at Anderson University years ago, but one listen to their hugely anticipated major label debut, These Simple Truths, confirms the band's undeniable talent. The fact that they have been on the road for 150+ dates per year for the years and show no signs of slowing down attests to their tenacious work ethic. 

But while there are tons of bands with talent and tenacity who never progress beyond the garage, Sidewalk Prophets insist it is the ever-present hand of the Lord that has lifted them to the next level of their career. 

With three major studio albums, five #1 hits, and eight top 5 songs under their belt Sidewalk Prophets has solidified their place among the elite artists in Christian music.  Their goal is simple: Authentically sharing Christ. Creatively inspiring Hope. Joyfully making everyone feel like someone.

This week I am talking with my friend Kristina Benson of the sync licensing agency Sweet On Top who I have the privilege of writing for. We are talking about what she does as a sync agent, what it takes to start your own sync agency and making sure you understand how the business works before you reach out to get an agent.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*The Four word secret to the music industry. *Right place, right time. *Recommending not going into music journalism.  Go into PR and do similar work. *How and why she started her own company. *Seeking out and negotiating opportunities for artists to license their music for placement in audio/visual media and the details of doing that. *Keeping in contact with your agent every 3-4 months to see how things are going and ask if there is anything they need specifically. *DO NOT ask your agent if there is any feedback from music supervisors. They don’t give it. *How pay rates work on Netflix and Facebook shows. *Sweet On Top is looking for any music that is produced well and easily cleared. *Sweet On Top needs happy songs about “home” or “time passing.” *What you need to know to start your own sync licensing agency. *Signing with an agent as an artist and making sure you educate yourself about sync music and how the business works. *www.sweetontop.com

BIO: Sweet on Top was founded by Kristina Benson, a lifelong music professional who began her career with a degree in opera from UCI and piano lessons in her spare time under Miles Davis sideman Kei Akagi. After stints as a promoter and DJ, she segued into a role as a branding specialist for DoStuffMedia, where she spearheaded engagement initiatives for brands such as Goose Island, Grey Goose and Pabst Blue Ribbon, working closely with local influencers produce interactive brand experiences. She went from there to acting as Music Director for Lip Sync, where she managed all day to day operations, including creative pitches, clearance, and custom music, working closely with top flight talent such as the Violent Femmes, Charles Bradley, Lindsey Stirling, Hanni el Khatib, and Steve Aoki. Custom music she has produced (and written!) in her role as Director were successfully integrated in national campaigns for brands including Coach and Bridgestone Tires, and placed on primetime shows such as Pitch, Orphan Black, and Bones.  She also was directly involved in placing music in national campaigns with brands like Bulova, Michael Kors, Acura, and on shows that include  Vampire Diaries, Sneaky Pete, the Blacklist, Riverdale, Cameron Crowe’s Roadies, and more. After many successful placements and two wonderful years at Lip Sync, she decided the time had come to start her own agency, and she uses her years of experience in the industry to find the perfect song for any project.

This week I’m talking with Scott Dudley of the sync music house Push.Audio. We are discussing developing your sound and being yourself when creating music for sync. Plus, the importance of creating songs with a similar “vibe” as the reference track, but not “sound a likes” when it comes to sync music as well as being able to write and be creative under a deadline.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*His sync music house Push.Audio. *Connecting with music supervisors. *Working with Hip Hop music for sync. *Music being a commodity. *Taking feedback with a grain of salt. *Developing your sound. *Being yourself. *Creating songs with a similar “vibe” as the reference track, not a “sound a like.” *Push.Audio is a creative house, one stop shop. *Creating music for ads, tv and trailers. *Having a 24-48 hour turnaround to turn sync music in. *Be able to write and be creative under a deadline. *This is a numbers game. *No song is wasted. *Exclusive vs. non-exclusive agencies. *Push.Audio looking for outside artists to work with. *submissions@push.audio *www.push.audio *Having metadata correct. *Making sure your song is mastered. *Have session files available. *Networking. *Keeping it professional.

BIO: Scott Dudley is the Creative Director @ PUSH.audio. PUSH.audio is a full Post Audio Agency with offices in Los Angeles, California and Roanoke, Virginia. Notable clients include Apple, Nike, Universal Pictures, etc. Scott Dudley is also a writer/producer who adapts the artist-driven company mindset to all creative operations @ PUSH.audio.

This week I am talking with digital strategist Michael Sloane who works musicians, management, labels, and entertainment brands, building successful and profitable relationships. His company Streaming Promotions helps grow audiences for artists on Streaming playlists. We are talking about how to connect with streaming services and get your music in front of the people who can get you in front of an expanding audience. And we talk about coming up with a strategy to reach your audience and demographic.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Streaming Promotions which helps grow audiences for artists on Streaming playlists. *Make sure your artist profile is up to date on Spotify. *connecting with over 3000 curators to get your songs on playlists. *Matching music to appropriate playlists. *Networking and building relationships with people in the industry. *Find out who works behind the scenes and make connections. *Be solution driven. *Project management for Zac Brown Band and Taylor Swift in the digital market. *Social media marketing. *The importance of being a great hang. *What the audience wants. *What demographic are you trying to reach? *What is your strategy to reach your audience? *How are you telling your story? *www.streamingpromotions.com  contact  -  slone@streamingpromotions.com

BIO:

Michael Sloane is an executive leader and digital strategist with a proven ability to develop and increase revenues while building a loyal consumer base in the ever-changing digital space.   As a digital strategist he has worked with Musicians, Management, Labels, and Entertainment brands, building successful and profitable relationships.  After pursuing a finance degree from the University of Kentucky, and an MBA in Music Business and Negotiation from Belmont University, he cut his teeth in entertainment with echomusic (later acquired by Ticketmaster) and later Live Nation Artists.  In these roles he saw the digital revolution unfold for artist such as The Rolling Stones, Kanye West, John Mayer, Zac Brown Band, Keith Urban, Mariah Carey, and Brooks & Dunn, among many others.  He later focused on digital strategy and ecommerce optimization with Taylor Swift (13 Management) followed by a jump to a record label, as Director of Digital Marketing for Big Machine Label Group (Taylor Swift, Florida Georgia Line, Tim McGraw, etc.)  He is currently the owner and CEO of Streaming Promotions, focused on growing audience for artists on Spotify.  While also acting as VP of Operations for Wonderful Union specializing in fan club and VIP ticketing.   Over the last 8 years he has acted as an adjunct professor at Belmont University teaching digital strategy and marketing.  Through the management of software development, client management, ecommerce optimization and digital strategy, Sloane has been able to build and grow the digital footprint of some of the largest entertainment brands in the world. 

This week I am talking with Doug Gould of Worship MD. Doug is tech consultant who works with venues all over the country, helping train them in running their sound equipment and getting the best sound out of their gear and room. He specializes in working with houses of worship and getting sound teams and worship teams to work together and create the best environment for people coming to worship services. Doug is also the artist relations rep for different musical companies. We are discussing training volunteers to run sound in churches, what a Worship MD weekend training event looks like and the difference in communicating with people in various types of venues.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Show Notes: In this episode we discuss: *Training volunteers to run sound in churches. *Being the artist relations rep for different musical companies. *Supply products to award shows. *The difference in communicating with people in various types of venues. *Moving from teaching for other companies to becoming an independent marketing specialist. *Worship MD refers to. *Logos and branding. *Consulting for retail music stores. *What a Worship MD weekend training event looks like. *Live mix vs broadcast streaming mix. *The cost for Worship MD to do a training event. *www.worshipmd.com *Artist and musician endorsement deals. *Get networked. *Be a servant.

BIO: Doug has been a veteran of the Pro Audio and Music Technology Industry for nearly 30 years, serving in management roles at Shure, Tascam and E-Mu Systems and also serves as a worship leader, musician and tech at various churches throughout his esteemed career.

Over the last twelve years Doug has been a very effective presenter at hundreds of worship conferences all over North America and beyond, focusing his experience to consult and teach others.

This week we are wrapping up season 5 with two amazing guests! I’m talking with Eric Knight & Ritch Esra of MUBUTV (Music Business Television) in Los Angeles, CA. These guys have a combined goldmine of knowledge and advice that covers the whole gambit of the music industry. Ritch worked at two record labels; A&M in radio promotion and Arista in A&R where he had the privilege of working with the legendary Clive Davis who has signed some of the biggest artists in the world including Whitney Houston and Kelly Clarkson. Eric has opened for such acts as KISS, Dave Matthews Band, Aerosmith and Kid Rock. He started his own artist management company Persistent Management™ not only for his own career as an artist but also to create a vehicle for other artists to achieve their artistic vision and integrity. Their MUBUTV Insider Series and Insider podcast is similar to my YOU CAN Make A Living In The Music Industry podcast as they have guests from all over the industry sharing knowledge that will help you make a living in music no matter what area you are pursuing. We are a companion series to each other and I can’t recommend them enough to check out (after you listen to this episode of course!) We are discussing the importance of being educated about your chosen career path. Why you no longer need a record deal to be successful. Why you have to be a jack of all trades AND a master of all. Plus, learning who your audience is, finding where they are, then going after them. And we discuss how MUBUTV’s goal is to educate, empower and engage your music career.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *The importance of internships. *The Music Business Registry. *Become educated about your chosen career path. *MUBUTV (Music Business Television) is a companion type podcast to YOU CAN Make A Living In The Music Industry. *How to listen to songs for A&R. *The criteria of the kind of artists today has changed because of a copy model (CDs, tapes, etc.) to an access model (streaming for free). *Artists signings today are not just about who is successful or about their music. Today its about who they are, where are they from, what do they represent? What are their values?  *You no longer need a record deal to be successful. *The real challenge today is the ability to get someone’s attention. *You must find an audience for your music before A&R or labels will put time, energy and effort   into you. *We are no longer just artists. We are business leaders. *A&R was a faith based business. That model changed with technology. *Today technology allows us to ask if there is a market for my music without A&R. *Who is my audience? *If you don’t know who your audience is at the beginning of your career, start making a serious commitment to learning who they are. *Being an artist who has been signed to a label and also an indie. *Find where your niche is, that narrow world where you can build your career. *Major labels are amplifiers to a career. *Adapting is the key. *A booking agent won’t sign you as an indie unless you can sell at least 300-500 seats on your own. *You have to be a jack of all trades and a master of all. *Learning who your audience is, finding where they are and going after them. *The more you know, the more valuable you become to companies. *MUBUTV’s goal is to educate, empower and engage your music career. *Study the lives of other successful people in the industry. *www.mubutv.com *www.youtube.com/mubutv

BIO:

Ritch Esra | Co-Founder

I started my career in 1978 at Record World, a leading trade magazine and have spent my entire career in this industry.  From 1980 - 1987 I worked at two record labels; A&M in radio promotion and Arista in A&R where I had the privilege of working with the legendary Clive Davis. In 1986, I began teaching several music business courses at various schools including Trebas Institute of Recording Arts, UCLA Extension, SAE (School for Audio Engineering) and Musicians Institute where I continue to teach today. In 1992 I formed the Music Business Registry with my business partner Stephen Trumbull. For the last twenty years, we have published the music industries leading contact directories for personnel in A&R, Music Publishing, Film/Television Music, Music Law and Artist Management. MUBUTV™is a blend of my passion for music as well as educating artists and others who have a strong curiosity about music, technology and the new emerging models within the business.

Eric Knight | Co-Founder

As an independent recording artist, I have taken the contemporarily appropriate “do-it-yourself” attitude to a whole new level; Having opened for such acts as KISS, Dave Matthews Band, Aerosmith and Kid Rock, I have worked tirelessly to introduce my original music to the masses. Throughout my career, I have worked on both the performing and business sides of the music industry. Besides being an accomplished musician with a strong D.I.Y. work ethic, I started my own artist management company Persistent Management™ not only for my own career as an artist but also to create a vehicle for other artists to achieve their artistic vision and integrity. My band Rock act Disciples of Babylon has put everything I've learned throughout my career to the test in order to build a self sustaining career that is totally autonomous and completely independent.   My current and most ambitious project, Symbiotic Nation™ is a new entertainment company startup with a mission to reinvent the entertainment industry completely. “Think Google of the new entertainment industry.” I am a voting member to the National Academy of Recording Arts & Science [NARAS] and The Latin Recording Academy [LARAS] Grammy Awards. I’ve always had a strong passion for teaching and sharing my experience with other aspiring artists, musicians and industry professionals. As a result, I have lectured and conducted several workshops over the years with students at the Berklee School of Music in Boston as well as my alma mater Musicians Institute [MI] in Los Angeles. MUBUTV™ is the ultimate vehicle where I feel there is a genuine opportunity for artists and musicians like myself to empower themselves in order to survive as well as thrive in this new era.

This week I’m talking with producer and engineer Gary Gray in L.A. Gary was mentored by music legends Quincy Jones, Jermaine Jackson and Phil Collins. He’s also become an in demand producer for Disney and 20th Century Fox. We are discussing the importance of networking and being a professional producer out of your home studio and Gary also shares a some tips and tricks to get your music to sound like the hits you hear on radio from his online teaching course The Lucrative Home Studio.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Being mentored by heavyweight Motown players as a kid. *Anything you can do to enhance the human factor of your career by dealing with other people face to face is a good thing. *Playing drums for Motown with Barry Gordy and Suzanne de Passe. *working for Music Connection Magazine selling advertising. *Protocol is communication and coordination. *Don’t open your mouth unless you know what you’re talking about or have researched. *Believe in people. *Prepare yourself and know what you’re talking about. *You’re either networking or not working. *Go above and beyond for another human being. *Being mentored by Quincy Jones, Phil Collins, Chick Corea, Jermaine Jackson and more. *Working with Disney as a one stop shop. *Producing from a home studio. *Disney connected me with 20th Century Fox. *1/3 of the formula is quantity, but 2/3’s of the formula is quality. *Being a mentor and teacher to. *The Lucrative Home Studio course - www.newartistmodel.com/lucrative-home-studio/ *https://youtu.be/73XN0jhx6oE  music composed for a commerical. *Checkerboard A/B ing. *Use a reference track to compare with from the beginning in your DAW to create radio quality recordings. *Mix your track while comparing to a mastered track. *Shave a little bit of the low and the high end and pull the volume of that reference track down to the volume of your mix. Now you’ve reverse engineered that master recording pretty close to what the mix sounded like before it was mastered. Now compare it by ear to your mix. *You’re comparing, not matching. *Writing articles for Tune Core. *The quality of work is the most important thing. www.howtolicenseyourmusic.com  *Licensing is a marathon race. *Use your ear, not your gear when you mix and master. *Balance your life. *Styles and genres being asked for by music supervisors. *www.aboveandbeyondmusic.net for music briefs.

BIO:

Gary Gray is an award winning composer, producer and engineer. He’s produced multiple projects for 20th Century Fox, Disney, Hollywood Records, A&E, EMI, CBS and many others all in a home studio that cost him less than $2,000 to build. Gary grew up in Cleveland, Ohio as a prodigy drummer and was raised on symphonic classical music, R&B, rock and roll and big band jazz. Gary’s first job was playing drums for Berry Gordy at Motown Records in Los Angeles. Gary himself has been mentored by Phil Ramone, Quincy Jones, Jermaine Jackson and Phil Collins. Gary honed his marketing savvy as the advertising and promotions manager for Music Connection Magazine. He has always enjoyed “both sides of the desk” in the music business. Having taught music since the age of 16, Gary not only walks the walk, he is also widely regarded as an exceptional mentor for composers, songwriters, musicians, producers, vocalists, and engineers. Gary brings you real solutions to real problems that home studio owners all over the world have benefited from.

This week I’m talking with Julie Klinger who is the executive director of the Christian Festival Association. Julie oversees 25 festivals around the country. We are discussing what the CFA does, the importance of volunteers to make music festivals of any genre successful, how to start your own local festival and what artists who want to perform at music festivals need to do to make sure they are invited back.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *Honoring volunteers. *Volunteers make festivals happen. *What an executive director does for a festival association. *Maintain and support the efforts of all the festivals. *Putting showcases together to listen to new talent for the festivals. *Networking and education. *Working with national sponsors to bring into different festivals. *Every festival needs to engage in the community. *Getting the local community involved to make your festival successful. *Festivals should find partners to have mission trips through the year or local shows to keep people engaged and serving. *How to get involved working as a volunteer at a festival. *How to work your way up in a festival. *How artists and speakers get booked at festivals. *Have a servant heart. *Give a festival 3 years to even get noticed. *How to start a local festival. *As an artist, don’t ignore your promoter.  *Engage with the festival fans and promote the festival to your fans. *Bad attitude artists usually won’t get invited back. *Honor who has brought you there. *www.christianfestivalassociation.com

BIO:

Julie began her career in Christian music as a volunteer for a small start-up free festival called LifeLight in Sioux Falls, SD.  While volunteering, she worked full-time as an adoption social worker receiving her Master's Degree in Social Work in 2005.  She then became the Adoption Program and Grants Director.  Over her nine years as a volunteer, the festival grew from a small one-day festival on a church lawn to the largest free outdoor Christian Music Festival in the nation.  Julie left her career in social work in 2007 and joined the LifeLight staff full-time as the Festival Director.  Eventually, Julie was promoted to the Vice President of Events and Operations at LifeLight.  

During her time at LifeLight she became an at-large board member for the Christian Festival Association (CFA) and eventually became the Vice President of the CFA Board. After leaving LifeLight in 2016, Julie returned to nonprofit management work.  Julie was offered and accepted the position as Executive Director of the CFA in January of 2019, while also continuing her nonprofit work.  Julie started her own consulting firm, The Tricycle Group, in August of 2021 and currently works full-time for various organizations helping them accelerate their momentum in the areas of program development, grant management and strategic planning.  Julie's vision for the CFA is to see the love of God spread across the country and globe through Christian music festivals and to inspire festival attendees to get involved in serving others in their communities.

The Christian Festival Association was formed in 2006 and is comprised of North America’s largest Christian music festivals united by a common goal: to bring glory to God.  We meet regularly via conference calls and at an annual meeting in Nashville to discuss matters such as talent development, spiritual content, event production and marketing, national sponsorship acquisition and much more.

The mission of the Christian Festival Association is to promote positive communication and synergies between the nation's top Christian festivals.

Our goal is to see these member organizations grow both spiritually and fiscally so that more lives can be changed for glory of God.

Our vision is to provide and facilitate an open communications environment to link Christian festival organizers together for: encouragement, shared information and resources, and addressing common business circumstances and goals, all for the purpose of increasing the success and professionalism of participating festivals so that the Gospel of Jesus Christ may be advanced and glory brought to Jesus Christ, our Lord.

This week I’m talking with my buddy Brent Barcus. Brent is one of my favorite guitar players that I have followed for many years. He’s toured with Shania Twain, Steven Curtis Chapman and DC Talk just to name a few. We are discussing the importance of getting the same sounds as the artists you want to play for and having a humble confidence when going in for an audition. Plus, we talk about his new company, I-65 Music where he creates custom commercial music for ad agencies and tv promos for various networks.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Ups and downs of being a guitar tech for touring artists. *Playing guitar for Cindy Morgan, DC Talk, Steven Curtis Chapman, Michael W. Smith, Kenny Loggins and Shania Twain. *The importance of getting the same sounds as the artists you want to play for. *Take something from every artist you play with. *The audition process for major label artists. *Learn the music inside and out. *Know the sounds of the instruments you are trying to emulate. *Have a humble confidence. *Research the artist to know their style. *Look the part. *Have a simple setup for auditions. *creating custom commercial music for ad agencies. *Using Linked In for connecting with companies. *Work flow of mixing tv promos for Viacom (CBS, CMT, MTV, VH1, etc.) *Engross yourself in the music community. *Open your mind and learn the skills. *Connect with Brent at www.i65music.com

BIO: Brent Barcus is an Audio Producer, Content Creator, Immersive Mixer & Sound Designer with a depth of music expertise, networking, and over 20 years producing commercial media for all platforms including podcasts, publishers, songwriters, labels, radio, TV, mobile and social media. 

He has worked with ViacomCBS, Volvo, Sony, AT&T, Nashville Predators, Purina Brands, Philips Healthcare, Republican National Convention, Warner Chappell, Griffin Technologies, Nashville Wine Auction, Permobil, Hex Bug Toys and Variety the Children’s Charity of St. Louis.

Brent has been a touring and studio producer and musician for artists such as Shania Twain, Kenny Loggins, Elton John, dcTalk & Steven Curtis Chapman performing on David Letterman, Oprah Winfrey & The Tonight Show starring Jay Leno. Brent has performed on the Super Bowl Halftime show and The Grammy Awards.

This week I’m talking with Peder Eide from Lifest 2022. Peder has been the main stage host at Lifest for over 20 years as well as a successful independent artist. We are discussing what it takes to be a host/emcee for music festivals, how to interact with an audience and having venues to trust you to bring what they need. 

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Opportunities come because of relationships. *Having a successful career as an indie artist. *Being a product of great people. *Venues trusting you to bring what they need. *Be willing to do whatever the venue needs you to do. *Serving the event. *Being a host/emcee for music festivals. *Getting into the festival circuit as a host/emcee. *What it takes to be a host/emcee for music festivals. *Let people know you’re paying attention to them. *Be available. *Surround yourself with great people.

BIO:

Peder Eide - Peder has spent the last 25 plus years as a singer/songwriter, speaker, worship leader, trainer and an advocate for orphans and children in poverty. His deep passion for the life-changing power of The Father’s love can be heard throughout the music of the songs and records he has written and recorded. Peder also has heart for helping youth and families draw closer to God and closer together through music and experiential worship. Peder’s critically acclaimed music has been described as playful yet spiritually challenging and it puts the fun back into contemporary Christian music…straightforward and relevant…, The creator of Taste Worship, a family connection event, Peder’s music and ministry has been highlighted by such groups as USA TODAY, Focus on the Family, Christianity Today and Worship Leader Magazine.  Peder was selected as a “Top Ten Young Minnesotan” by the MN Jaycees and in 2013 was honored by his high school, Oak Grove Lutheran High School with its most prestigious award, Living The Mission award.

More recently Peder has been using his years of experience to serve churches and ministries as a consultant for their Sunday worship experience. He helps worship leaders and their teams to connect and engage their congregation by equipping them with some unique creative skills that go beyond just the music.

Peder and his wife Sherri live in Farmington MN.  They have 5 children, Taylor, Allison, Ethan, Makenzie and Teshome.

This week I’m talking with my old friend Eric Horner. We are both from Paducah, KY and grew up learning to play guitar at Chapman Music. Eric has worked with country music legends Lee Greenwood, Brad Paisley, Wynonna Judd and Shania Twain. He is now in full time music ministry and we discuss the behind the scenes aspects of landing gigs, what is expected of you as a session player, immersing yourself in the music scene you want to part of and the importance of you guessed it…relationships!

Show notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*The whole key to this business is relationships.

*Go to a music city and be a part of the grape vine. Build friendships.

*Very seldom do artists have what’s called an “open cattle call” audition. Somebody knows somebody and they get the private audition because you’ve had a relationship.

*Steven Curtis Chapman and I grew up together and he taught me to play guitar. We were in a band together in college. When he moved to Nashville and worked at Opryland Theme Park, he worked with some girls who had gotten record deals and had some hits and they needed a bass player and he called me asking if I wanted to audition and I got the gig. They ended up opening for Lee Greenwood and when I heard through the grapevine that he had an opening coming up in his band, I was able to go to him because I made friends with his crew and band and they took me to him and he gave me an audition.

*Hanging out with people that are in bands is a good way to hear about opportunities.

*You need to come immerse yourself and go to any event that puts you in front of people.

*I’ve known Brad Paisley since he was 12 years old. He played guitar at smaller version of the Grand Ole Opry in Virginia. We would play there once or twice a year and we got to be buddies. He would come to the bus and we play songs together.

*He called me out of the blue and said he got a record deal on Arista Records and they were going to introduce him at Fan Fair (CMA Fest) and he asked if I would be in his band.

*I sang with Shania Twain on tv because her drummer used to be my drummer when I was pursuing a solo career. He gave them my name and they called me. There was no audition at all. I just showed up to rehearsal and did it.

*Be able to recognize people’s abilities because if you recommend someone, you’re neck is on the line.

*I pursued a solo career and had written some songs and Lee Greenwood signed me to a publishing deal and began pitching me as an artist.

*I toured with a band but never landed a big record deal.

*I started a production company called Makin’ Tracks Productions and we worked around the clock for years. Having built relationships with great players, we would use them on sessions for people who had been ripped off by other companies previously.

*Larry Rogers who owned Studio 19 and produced hit records for many country artists took me under his wing and told me to go into his studio and learn. All of those tools were at my disposal. He taught me what to do and not to do in making a record.

*Whatever you do, get up out of bed everyday and do something for your career. Regardless if it’s booking a date, writing a song, getting in the studio, etc.

*As an indie artist, you have to create your own niche.

*I became a session player because I was ready to get off the road. There is a stigma that road players can’t be a session player and vice versa. You can do it, it’s a matter of conditioning and thinking differently.

*On the road you can get away with a lot. You might be taking a 5 piece band and trying to make them sound like an 8 piece band. You can’t do that in the studio. In the studio you have to stay out of the way.

*The most important things in the studio: Time and Taste.

*You have to know when to play and when not to play. What you play has to mean something.

*It used to be you could not be on the road and be a session player. That has changed with technology. Some of the best session players around are out on the road touring now as well.

*With Makin’ Tracks Productions I got of a lot of business from NSAI because I built a good reputation and word gets around quickly.

*Now I’m a Gospel Music artist full time and work with the military.

*I got a record deal with a Gospel Music record label and since I had already recorded two new albums, I was in a unique position that they did not sink a lot of money into me. Instead they leased the albums from me but I retained ownership.

*Things did not work and the label was going under so I asked for what’s called a “peaceful release” and I purchased all of my product from them and got out without any legal problems.

*Whatever music market you’re in, get to where the music is.

*Immerse yourself, go to every writer’s night you can, meet band members and make friends with them.

*Become part of the fabric of whatever music town you’re in.

*The key to surviving the music business is relationships.

*The internet has leveled the playing field so a lot of people can have a career that couldn’t before.

*Don’t ever think you’ve got to get a major record label deal or you can’t do music. You most certainly can.

*www.erichorner.com

*Facebook - Eric Horner Ministries, Operation Tank Full of Love , His Tunes Studios

Music has always been a major part of Eric Horner's life. With Steven Curtis Chapman as his first guitar teacher, Eric grew up with a guitar in his hands playing and singing Gospel music all over Western KY near their hometown of Paducah. 

Eric moved to Nashville TN at the age of 19 to pursue his dream of becoming a professional songwriter and musician. It didn't take long for the doors to open and over the next 17 years Eric toured the world playing and singing backup with such artists as Lee Greenwood, Shania Twain, Wynonna Judd and Brad Paisley.

In 2002, all of that changed. Eric began to feel a call on his life to return to his Gospel music roots and to use his talents for a higher purpose. He surrendered to full time music ministry in the Fall of that year and hasn't looked back since. Eric and his wife Debby spend over 200 days a year on the road ministering in churches and military bases all across America.

God has given them the unique opportunity to encourage and minister to the newest members of our military as they go through basic training. Eric places a big emphasis on Faith, Family and Freedom along with a call to evangelism in his worship presentations. “With the division we are now seeing in America, there’s never been a more important time for the church to go out and shine His light and be the hands and feet of Jesus in our communities”.

This week I'm talking with my friend Philip Peters who is part of the True Artist Management team for artists TobyMac, Mandisa and DC Talk.  We discuss how to get into artist management, the day to day tasks of that position and how important it is to know all of parts of the music industry when trying to get a job in artist management.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I went to Anderson University in Indiana and got a lot exposure going to concerts at the school.

*DC Talk was my favorite band and saw them several times.

*The Gaither Vocal Band, Sandi Patty, Steven Curtis Chapman and Sidewalk Prophets all came out of Anderson University.

*I was in the music business program at Anderson University as a freshman but it was very music heavy and that was not what I wanted to focus one so I moved to a marketing program.

*The marketing degree has shaped what I do heavily now because we do digital marketing and always having to post photos and videos on Facebook and Google ads everyday and be creative which is incorporated with the touring elements I work with.

*I did get a music business minor which helped me in music business law, etc.

*I learned there is more to music than just the band on stage.

*I started working as the student manager at the school auditorium. I’m good with organizing people, etc. so I would interact with artist managers and road managers.

*In that position I would get the artist/band rider and make sure to fill the dressing room with what they needed, make sure there were people to help set up the stage or drive the band and crew around.

*That got me thinking I could do that on the road for artists making sure it was getting done as a road manager.

*I was getting the degree and learning in the classroom, but also practical experience when artists would come to the school.

*I was doing everything I could to load gear, run the spotlight, learn all facets of the industry.

*My first job out of college was here at True Artist Management.

* “Settling Shows” - knowing how much money came in for the shows from selling tickets, making sure everyone gets paid correctly.

*The promoter and road manager and the venue manager typically take care of that so someone from each party is involved.

*Working at True Artist Management I work with DC Talk, Toby Mac and Mandisa.

*How persistent do you have to be when trying to get a job in artist management? You have to know your stuff. Know the music industry, listen to a podcast, read the book, know what you’re talking about.

*Don’t just come in and say “I’ve always wanted to work with so and so artist.”

*Talk about always wanting to tour, be a part of album making, or serve the artist well.

*Artist management can be one of the coolest jobs ever and it can also be a difficult job that no one is there to do so I have to do it.

*Management is everything from an airport run to label meetings, but know that stuff and be educated in that world.

*I came in my first day on the job knowing what artists were with which agencies and labels so that so when someone says they need to talk to so and so, I know who that is.

*Be very prepared so you don’t have to be taught everything.

*Some of the hardest parts of being an artist manager is knowing the artist works nights and weekends on tour, so you’re working office hours during the day, but if a flight goes wrong or the is a problem at a show you may be working the night as well.

*You also have to be spinning lots of plates and when they are all spinning, no one notices. But if one falls everyone notices.

*You can kind of live in the area that no one is ever happy.

*The best part of being an artist manager is seeing tours come together and be successful.

*What are some practical steps for someone wanting to get into artist management?

*Make sure you know what you are good at.

*If the artist is the center, the manager is the nucleus around that and the spokes of digital team, merch, publishing, label, etc.

*The manager is trusted by the artist to make decisions for them, the right hand man.

*Make sure you are good at multi-tasking and don’t get overwhelmed easily.

*Don’t be easily stressed because you are going to live at a level of stress because you’re going to be working on the future while executing things in the present.

*I hear 2 things from people for why they want a manager: 1.) The workload is too much and 2.) I (the artist) don’t like to be the bad guy.

*There are many ways to get into artist management: working at a venue, promoting a show, etc.

*What does it take for an artist to approach a manager and ask them to represent them?

*Usually they are already signed to a label when they come to a manager.

*If you are playing x amount of shows a year and making x amount of money and you have a strong following on your own need help with marketing or crafting some songs, etc. then that might be different.

*For us, most artists sign to label then the label will connect them to management and booking agents.

*http://trueartist.org/

Philip Peters works for True Artist Management where he is a Management Associate for Christian music artists DC Talk, TobyMac, and Mandisa. Additionally, Peters served as the youth pastor at his church in Franklin, TN. from 2008-2014 and is also the founder of Restore Haiti, a service organization serving Jacmel, Haiti.

Philip founded Restore Haiti in 2005 which supports over 60 schools with supplies and tuition as well as drilling wells for clean water in communities. He attends the Gate Community Church in Franklin, TN. and is a member of the Alumni Council at Anderson University in Indiana.

Philip and his wife Laura Beth live in Franklin, TN and have one son, Jacob, who is 2 years old. 

This week I’m talking with my friend Bobby Rymer who owns the publishing company Writer’s Den Music Group in Nashville. He’s worked his way from the bottom to the top of record labels and publishing companies in the music industry and has a career that has spanned over 35 years. We are discussing the process of working your way up the ladder at publishing companies and record labels, the importance of knowing the history of the music industry, what publishers are looking for when signing new writers and the best venues to play in Nashville to get noticed by industry insiders.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I own Writer’s Den Music Group. As a publisher I have a day gig and a night gig.

*During the day I pitch songs and have meetings, etc. At night I go to showcases and meet writers and artists.

*Spend money smartly.

*Look over your options at what you want to accomplish and how.

*You don’t have to have an office anymore if you have a laptop and a phone you can do most of your work that way.

*I was doing social work and realized it was not my passion and I decided to go back to school to get a degree in the music business.

*My friend got a job at Capitol Records in the mail room and called and asked if I would be interested in his old job at a record store. Then 9 months later he called saying he got promoted and asked if I wanted my name put in for the mail room job at Capitol.

*The mail room at a record label is the bottom of the totem pole which is where most people have to start.

*Get in anyway you can and prove your worth.

*Ask yourself “how bad do you want it?”

*Internships and a course called "Copyright Law" are worth their weight in gold.

*You really don’t start to understand how the music industry works until you’re in it working everyday and making relationships and learning how things are done.

*I got to sit in on meetings and learn how you find talent and find songs.

*If you can, try to work out a smaller company because you will stand out more as opposed to a larger company that just churns interns out every semester.

*After about a year and a half an opening came up in A&R and I was able to move up because the label looked within before looking out.

*My main job in A&R was to go out and find songs for the artists on the label by meeting with the publishers in town.

*If you want to consider the music business for a career, you better know your history.

*When looking for songs for artists, I would sit with the label heads after they talked with the artists to know what they were looking for.

*You go out and find songs you’re passionate about and the come back and see if there’s a home for it on the label.

*You have to listen to songs and see if they are checking off the boxes of things you are looking for to fit an artist.

*When you are reaching out to labels or publishers, you better know who they are and the history of people they’ve worked with and what they’ve done and you better know who they are working for now.

*Get Billboard Magazine and make sure you know every artist, label, producer and writer and study the charts so it becomes second nature. That is where you start. You shouldn’t have to pause when someone asks who produced or wrote the latest hit is.

*Before you knock on a door or make a phone call to a company, understand who you are talking to because if you don’t they will quickly realize that you don’t want this bad enough or you haven’t done your homework.

*I was A&R for about 4 years at Capitol, then there was a regime change and lost that job.

*Opportunity is not going to knock on your door, you have to go out and meet it.

*I kept having meetings and eventually bumped into a publisher I knew who used to play me songs and he offered me a job as a tape copier at the music publisher Almo-Irving.

*Even though it was a step back from where I had been, I wanted to stay in the industry and I got the job as the tape copy, which is the ground floor at a publishing company.

*A tape copy made copies of 8-10 songs on a tape and put together lyrics and a label for publishers to take to pitch meetings.

*The tape copy is the best place to start at a publishing company because that’s where you learn the catalog and the songs and writers.

*The writers would come down with new songs and you would put the songs in the system so you get to spend time with the writers and build relationships.

*I was tape copy for about 3 years learning until a vacancy came open and I naturally moved up to song plugger.

*I realized that publishing is all I ever want to do because I get to work creators who make things out of thin air and I get to help find a home for it.

*A song plugger is being aware of the labels in town, the artists in town and your job is to find a home for these songs. sometimes it’s find new writers and bringing them in to the company.

*As a songwriter show up and do the work and always have your antenna up because you never know where a song idea will come from.

*Some songs in a publishing catalog don’t see the light of day after a while because they have a time stamp on them using certain language and melodies from the time it was written and the language and melodies maybe different now than they were then and those things change.

*Maybe the song is there but the demo is dated and will turn someone off even if it’s a great song.

*If the song will take it, I like demos with acoustic instruments. Don’t go crazy with reverb. Maybe do a glorified work tape and the demo has the chance of having a longer shelf life because they aren’t dating it with certain tones and sounds.

*The guitar/piano vocal demo is great because that’s the way I hear it when the writer plays it for me and there is nothing getting in the way of the lyric and the melody.

*If you bring a fully produced demo and the producer knows they aren’t going produce it that way, then they have to sit with the artist and start subtracting what they don’t want and that is hard for artists to hear sometimes because they are hearing it one way and being told they are going to do it a completely different way. If you have a guitar/piano vocal and say I’m going to start adding this, they get it.

*Some producers need to hear the full demo as it would be on the record.

*The song will dictate what it needs as a demo ultimately.

*resumes mean nothing in this business. It’s all relationship based.

*I worked for Almo-Irving for 14 years and eventually ran the Nashville office. It got bought out by Universal Music Group so after a year off I started a publishing company called Writer’s Den Music Group.

*Write what you know. Your story’s already been written. Tell it!

*People say “no” to songs I think are hits because this is an art, not a science and everyone has their own opinion. Find people who have similar tastes to you and send them songs that fit you similar personalities. If people have different tastes than you, find out what they are.

*This business is an educated guessing game.

*You have to be careful to not create demos that are too much like an artist because if they pass on it and you pitch elsewhere, those artists or labels think it sounds like that particular artist and once they find out the previous artist passed on it, they think something is wrong with the song and it will not get cut.

*Don’t pitch what they’ve done, pitch what they might be doing.

*Write what’s familiar to all of us but unique to you.

*It’s the music business, not the music I’ll do whatever I want and hope it works.

*For tv/film sync music you have to stand out and offer something that no one else is.

*We need the first you, not the second anybody else.

*It’s about creating a mood.

*Everything is negotiable.

*Music supervisors only want songs that are pre cleared so they don’t have to wait 3-4 days to to get an answer from a publisher if they want to license a song.

*As a publisher when I want to sign a new writer I’m looking for songs that have a good lyric and melody. If I can whistle it, I’m in.

*I’m not looking the next whoever, I’m looking for the first you.

*Great writers have a thumbprint like great singers do and you know within the first few seconds who wrote the song.

*I’m looking for someone who can write a song told a thousand different times, told from a different angle.

*If someone is reaching out to me wanting to get signed to a publishing deal, the best thing is to meet me at workshops and conferences where we can meet in person. That’s what I’m there for. Most of the time it’s by word of mouth from people I know or at songwriter nights when I go to listen to new writers.

*I close my eyes when I listen to songs because I want to see the movie you’ve created. If I don’t like a song it’s because I’m seeing it and feeling it.

*Maybe I’m not crazy about the song, but there are a couple of lines that are new and fresh and that will make me want to talk to the writer because that might be the tip of the iceberg for something greater.

*I’m looking for potential.

*Hone your craft so that when someone listens to it, there is nothing they can suggest to make it better.

*You can’t control God given talent, but you can control work ethic.

*I prefer to sign writers to long term contracts, not single songs because I want to build a relationship. I like to court a writer for period of time to get to know each other before I sign them.

*I’m looking for a certain amount of talent and a work ethic.

*Find people who will give you a leg up you do the same for others.

*If we don’t see you, if we don’t hear you, you don’t exist.

*Be out and play out. You need to play out 1 night and be out 4 or more. *You never know who you’re going to be standing next to or see on stage that you can develop a relationship with.

*Play out so people can see you.

*There are venues for tourists and venues for industry people. Play the venues such as The Local, Belcourt Taps, Douglas Corner, 3rd and Lindsley and The Bluebird where the industry people attend.

*If you’re playing at these venues, you’re going to find your “class” of people to rise up with at that is usually at the earlier shows from 5-7pm. You want to be hanging around those people.

*It’s about making smart decisions, hanging out at the right places at the right times, giving yourself opportunities and letting people see you are out and about and proactive. Eventually someone will take notice and you’re going to get invited to the next level.

Bobby Rymer is the owner and general manager of the Nashville based music publishing company Writer’s Den Music Group.

Writer’s Den was originally started in 2007 with Rymer at the helm. Among the cuts secured are multiple songs by Alan Jackson (including the 2013 Grammy nominated song, “So You Don’t Have To Love Me Anymore”), Lindsay Ell, Alabama, Chris Stapleton, Kesha, The Steeldrivers, Lee Ann Womack, Plumb, Ricky Skaggs, Olivia Newton-John, Trace Adkins, Randy Owen and Joe Nichols as well as several cuts by Bonnie Raitt. In addition, the company has landed a number of film/TV placements including numerous songs in the TV show, Nashville. They have also secured cuts in Canada, Europe, South America and Australia.

Currently signed to the roster are Brennen Leigh, Noel McKay and Gordon Kennedy.

Prior to Writer’s Den, Rymer was VP/GM of the Nashville office of Almo/Irving/Rondor Music, a company that was founded by Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss of A&M records fame. Some of the writers he was privileged to work with during that time were Bekka Bramlett, Peter Frampton, Patti Griffin, Nanci Griffith, Emmylou Harris, Paul Kennerley, Mark Knopfler, Kent Robbins, Annie Roboff, Anthony Smith, Marty Stuart, Gillian Welch and Craig Wiseman. Before joining the publishing side of the business, Rymer was at Capitol Records/ Nashville from 1985 to 1990. Initially starting in the mailroom and then moving to the A&R Dept., he worked with Garth Brooks, Barbara Mandrell, New Grass Revival, Marie Osmond, Kenny Rogers, Dan Seals and Tanya Tucker among others.

He is an Alumnus of Leadership Music, class of 2002.

This week I am talking with music industry icon Jason Davis. Jason is an entertainment industry executive with a broad range of titles including award winning songwriter and author, independent record label president, executive TV producer, entertainment consultant, former Senior VP of A&R for Dolly Parton's CTK management company and more. We are discussing when and why to hire an entertainment lawyer, the difference in managing a producer vs. an artist and what happens when you reach the top of the music industry and are still empty. 

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Once you make a human connection, if you keep the bar high, that relationship is always there. *When and why to hire an entertainment lawyer. *The amount it costs to hire an entertainment lawyer. *Learning how to develop an artist. *Learning how to coach artists well. *Find the treasure in an artist. *Finding an artist’s sound. *the difference in managing a producer vs. an artist. *How to get people’s attention as a writer. *Listening for tone of voice. *Having shared vision with an artist. *Have real love and care for people. *What can I bring to someone to help them along. *Honor your agreements. *Sandcastle empires. *What happens when you reach the top and are still empty.

Websites:  - http://www.noble-management.com/  - https://oneone7.com/  - https://www.higherlevelagency.org/jasondavismasterclass.html

BIO

Jason Davis has spent his entire two decade career in the music industry and worked with many worldwide stars, including Boyz ll Men, Sugar Ray, P. Diddy, Alabama, Lonestar, Dolly Parton, among many others before working in Christian music. 

Davis is an entertainment industry executive with a broad range of titles including award winning songwriter, award winning author, independent record label president, executive TV producer, entertainment consultant, former Senior VP of A&R for Dolly Parton's management company CTK management and a serial entrepreneur. 

He has also secured record deal offers with CEO's from the largest music companies in the world, including Capitol Records, Sony, Interscope, Island / Def Jam, Epic, Atlantic, RCA, and J Records. 

Traveling between New York, London, Los Angeles, Miami and Nashville, he built a reputation working with the top songwriters, producers, and recording artists in the entertainment industry on a global level. 

Over the span of his career, he has not only pioneered new approaches to the signing and development of some of the world most successful recording artists and songwriters such as Anne Wilson who recently was nominated for Christian song of the year in the 2022 Billboard Awards. He has consistently championed innovative business models and partnerships with a wide range of companies around the world. 

His career began as a songwriter when he was discovered by Grant Cunningham, the former VP of A&R for Sparrow Records. Davis went on to write a #1 Billboard hit, received several ASCAP songwriting and publishing awards, and was nominated for a Latin music award. 

Davis has also co-founded other cutting edge entertainment companies such as: One One 7, Noble Management, and Awaken Records. He is also co-president and partner of Christian booking agency Higher Level Agency.

This week I’m talking with Centricity Music Publishing songwriter and producer Justin Morgan.  Justin shares his experience going from a struggling indie band to charting on Billboard all without a label. Plus, we talk about what it’s like signing your first publishing deal and what the first year will probably be like for most newcomers. 

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Taking the initiative to connect with industry people. *Don’t be scared to ask but you can’t be annoying.  *Don’t be afraid to send a couple of songs to a publisher. Don’t send them 50 though. *There’s persistence and there’s over persistence. *Persistence is key to obtaining any level of success in the music industry, over persistence will kill any level of success in the music industry. *Anytime an indie artist starts getting Billboard traction, labels started noticing and we were playing showcases in Nashville. *Exploit your contacts and ask people to meet and get coffee and ask questions, etc. *Ask people to a breakfast meeting. *You’re not going to get signed from your first meeting.  *If you’re a good hang, they will listen to your songs. *When you sign a pub deal, you will spend the first year writing with everyone they can put you with. They have to figure out who you work well with and what you do best. *Be a sponge and learn as much about co-writing as you can from seasoned writers for that first year. *You can be a great writer and a horrible co-writer. *If you’re going to email a producer or publisher, etc., find out what they’re excited about and working on and who they’re working with. *When you approach a publishing company you want to work with, try to find a mutual friend who is working with them already.  That’s the best way. * www.pearlsnapstudios.com

BIO:

Justin Morgan is a producer, writer, and artist from Nashville TN. Justin grew up in the great state of Texas and feasted on a diverse selection of music from Glenn Miller to George Strait and The Eagles to The Wallflowers and everything in-between. That may be the reason Justin can't sit still in one genre for long. As a songwriter and producer Justin has had cuts in Country, Christian, Rock, and Pop and has had over 50 songs placed in TV and Film. As an artist, Justin has had over 10 million streams across his various artist projects and streaming platforms. 

This week I'm talking with country music artist Lauren Lucas.  Lauren has been signed to Warner Brothers and has also been an independent artist. We discuss the pros and cons of a signed vs. unsigned artist as well as publishing and touring as an indie artist.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Knowing multiple instruments will get you more work.

*You can’t be an island in this business.

*Start building a foundation locally and get out playing shows.

*A family friend knew a guy in Nashville that came to check me out and ending up signing me to an artist development and publishing deal in Nashville.

*The development deal eventually fell through but while in college I got cast as a main character in the Broadway version of Urban Cowboy in New York.

*I ended up writing a song that was used in that Broadway show and was my first major placement.

*A professor connected me with a producer in town who ended up putting me with different co-writers all the time and we were recording demos.

*He pitched the songs to Warner Brothers Records and I went in to audition and got my first record deal that way.

*They released my first single and I went on a radio tour and also got to open for Rascal Flatts, Blake Shelton, Lone Star and others.

*The order of events can work differently depending on the situation. For some people, once you sign a record deal, then you have team put around you such as a booking agent, management, publisher, promotion, etc.

*For some, if you have label mates, then you can get put on a tour opening for others on your roster.

*Doors open up to have these companies be on your team because they see a label putting money behind you so that helps them to believe in what you are doing especially if you are successful because there is a lot of money to be earned.

*You’re lessening the risk for yourself when you can align with a company like that.

*When you sign a record deal and start working with a publisher, they are going to tell you to keep bringing them songs.

*Once the album was halfway finished, publishers who didn’t like my songs before now wanted to sign me based off the same songs.

*That caused me to have a chip on shoulder and I didn’t sign with them.

*Because of that and when I lost my record deal, then I was an island and I didn’t have a team around me to help pitch me to other labels and help me get back on my feet.

*There are so many artists that are signed to major label record deals that have albums that have never seen the light of day or have been signed and let go before anything ever happened with them.

*The guy who helped get me signed was temporarily running the label and he got replaced when I released my first single and the new guy had a different vision and my album never came out.

*When you’re trying to get a record deal and you’re the new kid with little success, you don’t have negotiating power for your contract, the label does.

*The other route some people go is focusing on songwriting and getting hits with other artists, then you have more leverage to negotiate because of that success.

*I transitioned into songwriting and released a couple of independent EPs.

*There is value into taking your destiny into your own hands and working hard and making bold decisions.

*There is also value in building a team around you and gaining credibility before making those bold decisions.

*It feels like when you’re waiting on other people that it’s taking forever.

*My expectations were skewed and I thought it was all supposed to happen right away.

*Once you sign a record deal it can take 5 or 6 years for anything to really take off and that’s after signing a deal.

*For those us that never give up, we’re the ones that end up being successful.

*After my label deal ended, I was able to sign a publishing deal with Jewel Coburn of Ten Ten Music who had Alan Jackson, Keith Urban and Mark Irwin writing for them at different times. She started a new company called Eleven Eleven Music and I wrote for that company.

*So many great songs end up in a drawer because there is only so much room for songs to get cut.

*I’ve written for Danielle Peck and had a song used on Shark Tank that she recorded. I had a song placed in a movie as the end credits song with Dakota Johnson. I also had a song placed in a movie called Americanizing Shelly.

*I own my publishing now because I am focusing more on tv/film music.

*I was in the band Farewell Angelina and they recorded some of my songs as well.

*It’s a big deal when you get songs cut with major label or indie artists because when they get sales or radio play you get paid, even little by little it adds up.

*Also as a performer with music services like Muzak, you get checks every quarter.

*Farewell Angelina got to open for The Bacon Brothers for the past couple of years and I knew a guy in the industry who is a talent buyer and needed a band to open for them at a show and asked if we wanted to come.

*We hit it off with them and have been able to continue working with them and even starting writing music with them.

*Now I get to open for The Bacon Brothers as a solo artist and I am doing my career on my terms.

*I am making my best music now. You make different decisions depending on what your priorities are.

*In my 20’s I just wanted to be famous and I made desperate choices.

*Looking back now it wasn’t about the music.

*Now I just want to make great music and I don’t want to be on the road unless that’s what I want to do.

*I’m happier and freer and I think it’s coming across in the music.

*If you are married and wanting to be a touring artist, make sure you have a good foundation of what your dreams are and what you intend to do so that’s clear up front and the other person knows this is a really big part of who you are and what you want to do and gives the a chance to decide if they want to be a part of that lifestyle if you’re not married yet.

*Always have consistent home based check ins and keep them in the top of your mind and communicate with them when you’re apart.

*There are no office hours. You’re potentially working all the time because even after a show the people bringing you in may want to go out and you feel obligated to do that.

*You kind of always have to be “on.”

*When I do my own booking I develop a form email of what I want to say (and personalize it for each person) and I’ll make a dropbox folder of head shot, a link to music or video that will help sell the package and put a link for them to download.

*So many venues want you to submit and pitch to them in a specific way. Either call between certain hours or email them with a very specific subject line in the subject heading, or they don’t want a link but they want attachments.

*So a lot of time is spent looking up where you want to go and what’s a good routing and then finding a venues that fit your style of music and finding out how they want you to contact them.

*It’s extremely time consuming and tedious.

*If a large booking agency signs you and you are a new act without much of a track record, they’re not always able to get you amazing gigs.

*Your success begets more success.

*They depend on that before they can get you major touring opportunities.

*There are smaller booking agencies that will get you into small towns but are consistent gigs and will help route tours for you.

*If you look up booking agents that work with wedding or cover bands, many of them have other departments that focus on different types of artists.

*Make emails as enticing and as brief as possible.

*Mark on your calendar a time to follow up.

*www.laurenlucas.com

Nashville singer/songwriter, Lauren Lucas, knows first-hand the familiar story of a small town, Carolina girl moving to a music city, only to have her dream locked away in the vault of a major label. Once she was free to release music in her own way, Lauren partnered with Grammy- winning engineer, Chad Carlson, for her critically acclaimed EP, If I Was Your Girl. With Lucas' engaging melodies and soulful voice, the project caught the attention of Lady Antebellum's Charles Kelley, who requested to hear the title track in an on-air radio interview with Hall-Of- Fame DJ, Gerry House.

In 2011, armed with another project titled, On with the Show, Lucas explored new points of view, both lyrically and musically. She blended her rootsy-soul with more pop-tinged melodies, reminiscent of her influences, such as Jonatha Brooke, Bonnie Raitt, John Mayer, and Norah Jones. The Academy of Country Music and Tony Award nominee shows depth and maturity with her new single, “Go Home Paul.” This is the singer/songwriter’s fifth studio release and it finds her in new territory showcasing her musicianship on guitar and intimate vocals. Written by Lucas and Grammy nominated hit songwriter, Jay Knowles (Harry Connick, Jr., George Strait), the story of, “Go Home Paul,” makes the listener feel as though they’re keeping a secret or eavesdropping on a private conversation.

The track features noteworthy studio veterans including Park Chisolm (Kevin Costner & the Modern West, Aubrey Sellers) on arrangement and additional guitars, Alex McCollough (John Prine, Jim Lauderdale) of True East Mastering, and a long-overdue reunion with Pat McMakin (Ray Charles, Dolly Parton) leading the helm with production and mixing.

Lauren said, “‘Go Home Paul’ has been one of my favorite songs that I’ve been a part of as a songwriter. I’ve had both women and men come up to me after shows and tell me they relate to the story, so I’m thrilled to finally have it recorded and released into the world! Some of my favorite songs to listen to as a fan evoke emotion in me because they cut right to the truth. I hope we wrote this song personal enough that it feels universal to the listener.” This is only the first of a string of new music releases planned for the remainder of the year and into 2020. In addition to her own music, you’ve heard Lauren’s work As a songwriter and composer on Broadway, on other artist’s projects, in films and on television, including ABC’s hit reality show, Shark Tank. As a touring artist, Lauren has shared stages with Kenny Chesney, Old Dominion, Blake Shelton, Billy Currington, Maroon 5, Gabe Dixon, Maia Sharp, and The Bacon Brothers (Kevin and Michael), to name a few. Lauren spent nearly three years touring with an all-female harmony band called, Farewell Angelina and penned several songs on their latest record. You can catch Lauren on the road as she teams up again with the Bacon Brothers in support of her new music.

This week I’m talking with Adam Taylor, president of APM Music. APM is the world's leading creative music house and production music library. With placements in network tv, Netflix and Disney +  to tons of blockbuster films, it’s no wonder APM is at the forefront of the sync and music production library world. Crazy thing about Adam, he has no musical bones in his body, yet he runs the largest music production library in the world! We are discussing how someone with no musical background can become the leader of music related company, the key to the music library business and what APM looks for when hiring new staff members.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss: *Leading a music company with no music background. *Going beyond the job description. *The mission of APM. *Understanding what people are looking for. *wanting artists and composers who have their own style. *Having your own voice. *What APM looks for in new writers and producers. *Representing 3rd party libraries. *Success is based on the quality of music. *Indie artist centric. *Genres that are not used often in sync. *The more popular the music style, the shorter the shelf life may be. *Exclusive vs. non-exclusive representation. *The key to the music library business. *How APM pays artists and songwriters. *Come prepared. *Understand how you might want to fit into a company. *What APM looks for when hiring new staff members. *Be open to new ideas and ways of thinking. *www.apmmusic.com *https://form.apmmusic.com/composer-submission/

  BIO:

For over two decades, Adam Taylor has been helping intellectual property companies, organizations and individuals manage and extract value from their copyrights, trademarks and patents. As president of APM, Adam continues to reinforce the company's standing as an innovative creative house and production music library with one of the most diverse collections of original music for every type of media.  Prior to taking the helm at APM, Adam was president of Taylor/Fox Enterprises, where he partnered with doctors, scientists and inventors to direct market and deliver their unique, patent-protected inventions to consumers. Before that, as founding partner of Goldman/Taylor Entertainment, he developed numerous properties including the television series "Confessions of Crime" for Lifetime Network, and the PBS series "Joseph Campbell - Mythos" hosted by Academy Award® winner Susan Sarandon in partnership with the Joseph Campbell Foundation.  Adam began his career at Caswell-Massey, the oldest chemists and perfumers in the U.S. established in 1752, where he served a ten-year post as president and CEO.  Adam currently serves on the Board of Advisors for the Santa Monica College Academy of Entertainment and Technology, the Board of Directors for CreatiVets, a not-for-profit that uses music and the arts to help veterans heal, the advisory board of the Zelikow School of Jewish Non-Profit Management and the advisory board of Creative Community for Peace.

This week I’m talking with my friend and co-writer Ross King. Ross is a hit songwriter with Centricity Music in Franklin, TN with cuts by Jordan Feliz, Newsboys, JJ Heller and more. In addition to writing songs for himself and other artists, Ross is a successful sync music writer with multiple placements on tv. We are discussing the value of building a loyal fan base, the pros and cons of having a publishing deal as a songwriter and three things that will help you be successful in music.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Be part of a musical organization that people are coming to hear to help learn your craft. *Writing for artists from American Idol, etc. *True fans who tell others about is more important than Spotify streams. *Artist vs. Songwriter. *Establish a tribe of true fans. *Understanding what publishing is. *Understanding what a PRO is. *The reasons for changing publishing companies. *Payout from deep album cuts vs. sync cuts. *What do you want from your career? *Does a pub deal accomplish what you want?  *3 ways to be successful in the music business. *Make relationships with the people in the middle. *“Tools Not Rules” Songwriting curriculum on www.rosskingmusic.com. *Creating awareness and authority. *Collaboration and critique are everything.

BIO: Since 1995, Ross King has been a full-time songwriter, worship leader, performer and and producer. Many of the songs he’s written have been recorded by Jordan Feliz, Newsboys, We Are Messengers, JJ Heller, North Point Worship, Jason Gray, Jonny Diaz, Carrollton, Micah Tyler, Coby James, Joel Vaughn, Cade Thompson, Jimmy Needham, Michael English, and many others. In addition to writing CCM and worship, Ross crafts songs for the film/tv world. His songs have been heard on an NBC promo for the Today show, a SEC Football promo and a SmileDirectClub commercial. Outside of primarily writing for others, Ross has recorded several independent albums of his own music throughout the years. In addition to all of that, Ross spends a decent amount of time teaching other songwriters and creatives how to grow in their confidence and in their craft.

This week I'm talking with my friend Blaine Barcus who is VP of A&R at Provident Label Group where he works with artists Zach Williams, Third Day, Matthew West and more.  We discuss some of the best ways to get your foot in the door to work for a record label, management company or publisher through road managing, merchandise managing and internships.  Also, the importance of having a professional attitude with everything you do.

Show notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I’m the Vice President of A&R for Provident Label Group.

*A&R stands for “Artist and Repertoire” which is basically artists and songs.

*I equate the roll as kind of an account executive.

2 parts to my job: 1) I manage artists signed to our label and it’s my job to be the main creative person that interacts with the artists on behalf of all their content especially on the audio side. It’s my job to the help develop the artist if they are a new artist, find people to co write with them, figure out their sound if they don’t quite know yet. Basically helping them find songs and producers for their projects. It’s a part business, part creative. 2) I’m also a talent scout, going out to shows, listening to demos, looking for artists to potentially sign to our label.

*I played drums growing up.

*I went to college and majored in communications.

*I worked in marketing and sales after college.

*My younger brother was at Belmont in Nashville so I followed him to town. He ended up going on tour with big artists and it was through my brother’s network of friends and associates that I was able to plug in.

*My first job in the music business was tour manager for a new band in Atlanta called Third Day. Since I had strong business skills from college, their manager hired me.

*After about 6 months I transitioned inside their management company and became their day to day manager at Creative Trust which is where I started working with Steven Curtis Chapman overseeing some of his live events along with several other artists.

*I did that for about 3 years, then went back on the road and drummed and road managed Mark Shultz for about a year.

*Then I got hired at Word Records to do A&R where I worked for 3 years then I transitioned here to Provident for the past 15 years.

*If you want to get into road managing, some skills required to be a good road manager are: You have to have organizational skills and juggle a lot of balls at one time. As a road manager you interact with almost every facet of the music industry i.e. artists, concert promoters, booking agents, artist managers, record labels, publicists, transportation companies, production companies (audio, lighting, sound engineers, crew).

*You can start by road managing an indie artist.

*A great way is to start out as a merchandise manager on a tour because management is always looking people that can go out an be responsible and organized to sell and manage merch on the road.

*If it’s a signed artist, I would go to the manager and let them know who you are and what your skill level is and what you’ve done. A lot of times it doesn’t take a lot of past experience to do that job but you have to prove that you have good people skills and that you’re organized and that you’re good with money.

*Good people skills because you’re going to interact with the artist, road manager and local sales people at each venue, and the audience.

*A merch manager is representing the artist at the table so if you’re not a pleasant person or you have bad people skills, that’s a reflection of the artist and they’re not going to keep you around very long. You’re a sales person for the artist.

*If you can be really good at that, usually other people on the road are going to notice your skills and your abilities and I think there are a lot of transferable skills to then grow into an assistant tour manager on a larger tour or a tour manager on a smaller tour and work your way up.

*I had never had an A&R position before but people knew my work in the industry and when the position came open, my boss at Creative Trust spoke with the person at Word Records and had a relationship with him and put my name in the hat and recommended me.

*There are A&R skills required to be a good manager too and they believed I had the skills to do the job.

*A couple of bands I signed at Word Records were Building 429 and Stellar Kart.

*When I moved to Provident I got work with Third Day again so it became a full circle moment.

*DSP - Digital Service Provider - Spotify, Pandora, etc.

*Your social skills, people skills and general disposition is 100% as important as your playing ability.

*Bring a level of professionalism to whatever you do or someone will be waiting to take your job.

*Most artists I sign come to me through people I know in the industry.

*I look for artists that have a heart for ministry and encouraging and loving people. Also I have to determine if this artist has the talent to be successful on a national or worldwide level.

*You don’t need a label to have a career as an artist.

*A record label is like an engine that can help pour gas on what an artist is already doing.

*The artist has to be the driving force and the label can be champions to come around that artist and hopefully take it to the masses.

*I have to sign artists that will be financially profitable for this company.

*I think if you’re trying to be an artist full time, you have to engaged and involved on social media. At the end of the day however, it’s not a make or break for me to sign an artist based on how many followers they have or don’t have.

*I believe if the talent is great, if the songs are great, they’re going to find followers.

*If you want to work for a record label, a lot of times a bachelor’s degree of any kind is used to weed out who is serious and who isn’t.

*You can look for entry level jobs keeping track of people’s calendars, assisting a marketing director or supporting the head of radio, etc. Those usually come from college internships.

*Go on the road as a merch manager and be excellent on the road, then transition to a tour manager or label position.

*If you have any skills in video editing or directing, there are opportunities at labels.

*Just be great at what you do, do it with excellence.

*If you’re an intern, you will get the first shot at moving up to a higher position when they become available.

*You don’t have to have a music business degree to work in the music business. You can get a regular business degree and get your music experience outside of the classroom by interning or promoting shows in your area, etc.

Music has been a constant in Blaine Barcus’ life for as long as he can remember. He began listening to his parents’ Beatles records before he started kindergarten. At 10 he began taking drums lessons, joined his first rock band at 15. He earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Communication from the University of Missouri and in 1996 moved to Nashville to pursue his dream of working in the music business. Since then, he has been fortunate to work in almost every facet of the industry as a tour manager, touring drummer, artist manager, and record label executive.

Over the span of his music career, Blaine has worked directly on albums that have sold or streamed over 10 million copies. Three of those albums received Grammy Awards with 13 other albums or songs receiving Grammy nominations. He has been fortunate to work with many talented artists including Third Day, Steven Curtis Chapman, Zach Williams, Matthew West, Matt Maher, Building 429, I Am They and many others. Currently, Blaine is the Vice President of A&R for the Provident Label Group, a division of Sony Music Entertainment. He is married to his best friend, Beth, with whom he has three children. In his free time he enjoys cardio kickboxing, college football, high school baseball and collecting vintage drums.

This week I’m talking with my friends Ben and Lauren Johnson. We are talking about the pros and cons of being married and both working as professional musicians in different aspects of the industry. As well as discussing how connecting with the right people in the industry who can mentor you can help launch your career and open doors that might now otherwise. Plus, the benefits of having an good online presence.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Being a married couple in the music industry.  *Multiple streams of income. *Learning to improvise.  *The importance of learning to transcribe music at an early age. *Reach for “unattainable things.” *The benefits of being on X Factor and similar shows. *Always be learning. *Every setback is just a setup for a comeback. *The real music industry vs. reality tv talent shows. *Creating a sound and identity as an artist. *Learn to be happy for other people’s success. *Having a good online presence. *Instagram is the new business card. *Post consistently so you show up in Instagram’s algorithms. *Post things you care about. *Showcase what you do in a consistent way so people quickly know who you are, what you care about and what you do. *Lauren’s instagram for consulting is @lalalauren678. *If you can make tracks you are more valuable in co-writes. *The value of having a mentor who is already successful. *To be competitive as a writer: write more songs, find a great mentor, take constructive criticism, find great titles, co-write, study songs and find out why they are successful. *Write with the artist to have a better chance of getting songs cut. Just write parts of the song and ask the artist to write another section to make it their own. *Being married and both in the industry works because of not competing with each other. *Having goals planned out before getting married. *Supporting your spouse’s career and being intentional with each other. *Take time for yourself, remember to have fun, it’s okay to say “no.” *Love you what you do. *Contact Ben at @theonlybenjohnson2 or @track45. *Contact Lauren at www.laurenconklin.com or @lalalauren678.

BIO:

Ben Johnson is a songwriter and producer living in Nashville, TN. He is signed to a worldwide co-publishing deal with Tape Room Music (Nashville) and Artist Publishing Group (Los Angeles), and has written songs for artists such as Charlie Puth, Thomas Rhett, Kane Brown, Ava Max, Lee Brice, Meek Mill, Justin Timberlake, Lauren Alaina, and more.  Originally from Meridian, Mississippi, Johnson grew up surrounded by music. He is a classically trained pianist and cellist, and grew up performing in orchestras as well as in bluegrass groups. From a young age, Johnson has written and produced music with his two sisters in their band Track45 (now managed by Missi Gallimore and Gary Borman, and in the process of completing their first label deal).  In 2012, Johnson moved to Nashville to attend Belmont University on a cello scholarship, and it was at this time that he began co-writing. Johnson also made many connections in the country world singing BGVs for the CMA Awards each year- heʼs had the opportunity to perform with artists like Dolly Parton, Alan Jackson, George Strait, Reba, and many more. Johnson met Ashley Gorley of Taperoom Music through a co-writer and they began working together, leading to Johnsonʼs eventual signing at Tape Room Music in 2018.  His first major cut was “Patient” with multi-platinum pop artist Charlie Puth on his 2018 album “Voicenotes”. Since then, heʼs had dozens of cuts in both the pop and country worlds, as well as success as a producer, notably with artists Hunter Phelps and co-producing Kylie Morgan with Shane Macanally.  Currently, Ben spends most of his time writing and producing at his studio on Music Row, and working with his band Track45 on new music set to be released later this year. 

Lauren BIO Lauren is a composer and multi-instrumentalist living and working in Nashville, TN. She began her musical career as a fiddle player, and has performed on stages from the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville to the Royal Albert Concert Hall in London and has worked with artists and productions such as Miley Cyrus, Lonestar, Florida Georgia Line, ABC/CMTʼs Nashville, The CMT Awards, Jools Holland, Montgomery Gentry, Josh Thompson, Kix Brooks, Little Big Town, Andra Day, Lee  Ann Womack, as the featured artist for Bonafonteʼs international advertising campaign, HighRoad, Matt Maher, and many others.  Lauren is a graduate of Belmont University with a degree in Commercial Music. Her background in bluegrass and Celtic music lends a unique sound to her compositions and recordings. Her sound is full of lush strings, cinematic world- music inspired percussion, and draws musical elements from her time traveling and performing in Scandinavia, the Middle East, and Latin America. She recently released her second solo EP, “Water Music Part II”, available now on all digital streaming platforms.  Currently, Lauren lives in Nashville, TN, where she works as a composer, recording artist, and touring musician. In her free time, Lauren loves to paint, read books, and play with her Bernedoodle, JuJu. 

This week I am talking with my friend Steven Scharf from Rhode Island. His company, Steven Scharf Entertainment, works with independent artists and producers to get their music licensed in tv and film projects. Steven also served as Senior V.P. Creative for the publishing company Carlin America,  and oversaw the licensing of songwriters and artists like AC/DC, The Turtles and James Brown. Plus, he has worked in the studio with The Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin and Lynyrd Skynyrd and you are going to hear some amazing stories of how he was able to step into that world in the first place.  We are discussing the importance of networking, having a special “voice” in your writing and making sure you know who the people are that you are trying to reach out to and what their companies are all about before contacting them.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Getting to watch legendary rock & roll and R&B studio sessions recorded live. *Always go with your gut instinct. *Honing your craft. *Networking is the biggest part of everything. *It’s about the songs. *You’ve got to have great songs. *New composers need to work with young film makers. *Finding internships to work in the industry. *Take every opportunity that comes your way. *Find people that can help you grow. *Building deep, long lasting relationships with good people. *Composers need to have a special “voice” in their writing. *Producers need to have a vision when making a record. *Exclusive vs. non-exclusive deals *Never sign to a licensing company that asks you to pay them to pitch your music. *Networking at conferences. *How to send the right kind of emails to agents and supervisors. *Make sure you know who people are, what they do and what their companies are about. *http://www.stevenscharf.com/

BIO:

Steven Scharf Entertainment was formed in 1991 to manage and develop the careers of independent record producers and recording artists. At that time, Steven aligned himself in a joint partnership with Freddy and Caroline Bienstock of Carlin America, Inc. - one of the most prestigious independent music publishers in the world. Today, Steven Scharf currently serves as Senior V.P. Creative for Carlin America, and oversees the licensing of well established songwriters and artists such as AC/DC, Jim Steinman (Meat Loaf), The Lovin' Spoonful, The Turtles, James Brown, Bobby Darin, and Billie Holiday. Prior to the creation of Steven Scharf Entertainment, Steven Scharf spent nearly  30 years working in the recording industry as a record producer, head of A&R, and talent manager. His career began in 1969, when he was privileged to apprentice at the famed Muscle Shoals studio in Sheffield. Alabama. While there he worked with legendary artists as The Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin, Boz Scaggs, Lynyrd Skynyrd, R.B. Greaves, and with such producers and engineers as Ahmet Ertegun, Jerry Wexler, Tom Dowd and Steve Smith.   As his career progressed, Steve moved on to work at GSF Records in the early 70's and held a staff editorial position at Cashbox Magazine.  In 1976 Larry Uttal tapped him to become Head of A&R at Private Stock Records, where he oversaw A&R for such artists as The Mighty Pope, Blondie, Robert Gordon & Link Wray, Benny Mardones, Rupert Holmes, The Dirty Angels and Samantha Sang.  Steve produced many artists during the late 70's, early 80's such as Robin Lane and the Chartbusters, Bob Halligan and Duke Jupiter (Motown). In recent years Steven Scharf Entertainment has become an LLC, and evolved to include the film and television licensing of many new independent artists. Following the trend of major television shows which prefer "one-stop shopping", Steven began representing a diverse range of artists who control their own publishing and masters. This approach created an advantage with music supervisors who require music on short deadlines; removing the need to negotiate at length with publishing companies and record labels. 

This week I am talking with Daryl Berg who is the music supervisor for Crown Media which owns The Hallmark Channel and Hallmark Movies and Mysteries.  He has also worked with Fremantle Media as head of music and worked on various game shows. We are talking about the kind of music Hallmark is looking for and the kind of music composers need to create if they want to get into game show music. Plus, the importance of knowing who your audience is when creating music for tv.

Show Notes:    Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Doing music supervision for Crown Media: The Hallmark Channel, etc. *Music for game shows should be short, sharp and shocked. *Game show music composers should make friends with production company people. *The kind of music needed for Hallmark movies and shows. *Budgets decide if the music used is major label or indie artist. *Being on a music supervisors list is a privilege. *Don’t call me, email me. *You have to understand what your audience is. *Find an agent who works with Crown Media to rep your music. *Be polite. *Follow up once a month, not once a week.

BIO:

Daryl Berg currently is the Vice President, Music Strategies and Licensing for Crown Media; parent company of Hallmark Channel and Hallmark Movies and Mysteries where he overseas all music strategy and supervision.  Prior to that he re-launched Sound Canyon in Fall of 2015 after serving as Vice President, Head of Music for FremantleMedia North America, where he handled music supervision and licensing, oversaw and grew their publishing assets, and worked with both television and digital departments on the developmental sides. Prior to that he served as Vice President of Music for Shine America from 2011 to 2013, where he was responsible for Shine America's music strategy, expanding the company's music portfolio, helping to develop music-based productions and building licensing properties across scripted, unscripted and digital productions.

Prior to joining Shine America, Berg served as Director of Music for FUEL TV, where he spearheaded the overall music strategy for the network. His responsibilities at FUEL ranged from music supervision to licensing and booking bands to overseeing the network's music marketing campaigns.

Before FUEL TV, Berg was Director, Business Development for EMI Music, developing business opportunities for the company and creating new media licensing proposals, including digital music subscriptions, internet radio, online video and set-top box content deals. Previously, Berg co-created Crusty Old Timer, Inc., a music supervision and placement company based in Los Angeles. He also formerly served as founder/Vice President, Strategic Planning for The Orchard, an independent music and video distribution company.  He’s a graduate of University at Albany and Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law and lives in Los Angeles with his wife Nina and their daughter Lennox.

This week I am talking with one of my oldest and best friends in Nashville, Jared Ribble. He is one of the best drummers I've ever known and worked with.  He is owns a great recording studio and production company and is the drummer for the band Denver and the Mile High Orchestra.  They have been on multiple tv shows and made it to the finale of the Next Great American Band. We discuss the “reality” (get it) of being on reality shows like American Idol, The Voice, AGT, etc., finding your peer group and helping each other out. Plus, diving in to what makes you unique.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com

Talking Points -

*I started playing drums when I was a kid.

*My dad did concert promotion in Wisconsin and he would bring big bands to our area and I got to know the drummers.

*Will Denton who played drums for DC Talk and Steven Curtis Chapman would come to town and hang out with me and encourage me and I’ve tried to pay that forward as well.

*Be that person of encouragement to someone else.

*Reach out to your heroes on social media and see if they will give you advice.

*I went to Belmont University to be in the Belmont Big Band. I never got that position but ended up in a touring band called Denver and the Mile High Orchestra and have been the drummer for them for the past 20 years.

*I was never passionate about big band music even though I wanted to be in that Belmont big band. But, I was being prepared for something else.

*Through Denver’s band is how I ended up playing on different tv shows.

*Dive in to what makes you unique.

*When you understand what makes you unique, you get less offended when you don’t get a job or gig or when you get let go from a gig because someone else has the uniqueness they’re looking for and what makes you special is not what’s helping them.

*DMHO was on a show called The Next Great American Band which was put out by the same people as American Idol.

*Denver and MHO on Next Great American Band Finale

*All of those shows are scripted reality shows. They are writing a story for the whole season and finding ways to fit the performers into the story.

*We made it to the top 3 and I realized I loved playing on tv. I enjoyed the pressure and excitement of playing live.

*I have been the house band drummer for various award shows so when you play on tv you have to come in prepared, ready to go and get it right immediately.

*If you want to get on a tv show competition, go for it! But, watch those shows carefully. From the start of a season to the end of season ask yourself “what story were the producers trying to craft?” Because at this point you are an actor and a performer that is performing and acting out their story that they are trying to tell.

*If you have a unique story that tugs on the heartstrings of America, you have a better chance of getting on the show.

*It’s a lesson in “craft your story.” Figure out what your story is, craft it and tell it well because that is what those shows want, then they will infuse that into their bigger story they are trying to tell.

*That’s why some of the best singers on the show don’t go as far as they should, because their story isn’t as exciting and compelling to America.

*Reality tv is about drama so you have to remember they may craft some drama around you and you have to be willing to put up with what they are trying to put you in.

*Be aware that you are stepping into a bigger story.

*You sign a contract saying they can use your likeness anyway they want, positive or negative, for the show.

*All of that said, it does launch careers and if you want to do it, go for it!

*When it comes to me playing in house bands on award shows, etc., tv producers would see DMHO and think we would be a great house band and invite us to work on various shows. Once you get into that world, you continue to get hired for other similar shows.

*Then I got called to play in the show Nashville which you and I played on together.

*I got called by Sherrie Cunningham Gibson to play on the show because she knew the band Sixwire who were playing the band for another character on the show and they referred my to her when she was asking for more players.

*Playing on that type of tv show is very different because now you are actually an actor.

*We are playing along to music that is already recorded. We get the tracks maybe 24 hours before filming and have to learn and copy the parts exactly as the recording because if I hit a cymbal and there is no cymbal hit in the recording, it won’t match up and I won’t get called again.

*Because it is a show about music, they had a music director on set that would make sure we did everything correctly.

*The Musicians Union is who tracks shows with musicians on them to make sure we get paid.

*Not every tv show will run through the Union and if doesn’t you won’t get paid when re runs air.

*Starting a recording studio does not come overnight.

*Start with what you can afford and start making music.

*Take the tools you can get your hands on and don’t go into debt buy the fanciest gear.

*My partner and I started Advantage Music Production.

*I own 745 Recording Studio.

*Once you have done it for 20+ years touring becomes more about having new experiences than it does about the music.

*I started a record label called Reel Loud Records with my dad and DMHO was the first band we signed which actually generated 7 figures of revenue.

*Tons of exposure on tv doesn’t mean you are going to make a lot of money from downloads.

*If you want to be a professional musician, seek after your uniqueness, practice hard and be as good as you can be for that moment, find a group of people you mesh well with.

*You get jobs by running in a circle of people that are your friends that are already doing it and sticking with them as you all move up the ladder of the music industry. That is what will help grow your career.

*Stick with your peer group, be friends, help each other out.

*www.jaredribble.com

Jared Ribble has drummed for 20+ Grammy, Dove, AMA, CMA, and other such award-winning artists, and has appeared drumming over 50 times on national television networks. He is co-owner of Advantage Music Production and operates his recording studio 745 Recording.  Jared has engineered and mixed records for The Voice finalist Johnny Hayes, and iTunes best-selling jazz vocalist, Jaimee Paul.  In addition to music, Jared spends time mentoring college students and young adults and is actively involved with adoption advocacy work.  He lives in Nashville, TN with his wife and three young boys.  You can read more about Jared at his website www.JaredRibble.com.

This week I’m talking with my old friend Eric Hurt who has spent over 20 year as a song plugger, publisher and A&R rep working with some of Nashville’s biggest music companies and songwriters. We are discussing what it takes to work as a song plugger and publisher. Setting yourself apart so that people find value in who you are and will want to work with you. The importance of showing up and giving your all so that industry people will start noticing you. Plus, two of the most important ingredients to be successful in the music industry.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*The people who are most successful are the ones who don’t give up.

*Find ways around “no.”

*Went to Belmont University for composition and arranging. Although I wasn’t required to have an internship with my degree, I realized the importance of having one so I could network and get to know people.

*I got an internship at a publishing company called Almo/Irving which is the best thing I have done in my career to set up me for success.

*Laws have changed and it has become more difficult to get an internship if you aren’t in school.

*You can still get an internship without going to college and going through an internship program, but you will probably work with a small company instead of one of the larger companies.

*I ended up at Forefront Records for a while, but stayed in touch with the people at Almo/Irving and they recommended me for a position as a song plugger for producer Joe Scaife at Cal 4 Entertainment. That happened because I maintained my relationships with people at Almo/Irving.

*Be patient, not pushy.

*A song plugger is someone who maintains relationships with all the labels and A&R teams. They also build relationships with all the publishers. You keep up with all the artists in town that are working on records and the kind of material they are looking to record and when your client (songwriter) has a song you feel works for that artist’s project, then you take that song to the record label or producer or artist and play it for them to try to get them to record it on their album. You try to get the songs into as many hands as possible.

*A song plugger also sets up co-writes with other writers or artists.

*Song pluggers can work for a company or independently.

*Liz Morin and Ronna Reeves are great independent song pluggers. But they don’t work with just anybody. It has to be artists they feel like has a home somewhere.

*If you hire an independent song plugger, make sure they have good relationships with the people in the industry.

*If you want to be a song plugger, you have to be very outgoing, social and love meeting new people. Be comfortable in a lot of different scenarios, one-on-one or with a room full of people. You need to look for companies that have success because they are going to help set up initial meetings for you as a song plugger so you can get to know the high up people at labels and publishers, etc.

*After a while I decided to go back to making music and stepped away from the business side, but after a few years I realized I preferred the business side of music.

*I came back and worked at Brentwood Benson Publishing as creative director basically doing the same thing I had done as a song plugger with the other companies, but on a larger scale.

*Whether you’re an artist or want to be on the business side there are 2 things that there are no substitutes for: Patience and hard work.

*Don’t compare your journey to someone else’s.

*For the past few years I worked for Black River Entertainment doing publishing and setting up co-writes, looking for songs, etc. I signed an artist named Willie Jones to a publishing deal which led me to working with my current company EMPIRE.

*If you are in a creative position at a publishing company, you are setting up co-writes, pitching songs, dealing with A&R on signing new talent to pub deals, etc.

*Most people think of A&R as being only on the record label side, but there is that same element when signing writers to a publishing deal.

*I’ve been diligent learning multiple sides of the industry, broadening my web of contacts so that I can move in different areas and genres and pivot as needed which has created value over time and led to multiple opportunities so that people are always reaching out to me for a position, not me seeking out new positions for myself.

*When I sign a writer for EMPIRE I look for people that already have a team around them and they have some momentum at what they are doing currently.

*At Black River Entertainment it could be a brand new writer that had no cuts but was could at tracking and producing.

*Sometimes it’s knowing when to sign new young writers and knowing when to sign anchor writers that have had hits over their career.

*At EMPIRE I am the VP of A&R launching the Nashville division. They’ve had lots of success in the urban space including Kendrick Lamar, Cardi B, Snoop Dogg, etc.

*They wanted to get into country music so I am spearheading that by offering something with an urban philosophy and mindset on how we partner with artists and put music out.

*When you’re married you have to have a supportive and understanding spouse. It’s a lot of odd hours. You have to have a balance and make sure you have family time. When your off, be off.

*Learn the power of “no.”

*If you learn when to say “no” that can make you more valuable and more respected to people.

*If you want to work for a label, publisher, etc. or get signed to one as an artist or writer, you need to move to a music town that does those things and immerse yourself in the genre and the side of the business you want to be on.

*Find out where things are happening, where the influencers are, where people in the music community hang out so you can show up be around it.

*In Nashville every Monday is Whiskey Jam where a lot of artists perform and every Tuesday is Tin Roof Revival. Show up and be there because industry people go to those events and you can rub a lot of elbows and start building relationships in a really authentic way.

*Don’t be pushy or try to rush anything.

*Find people you connect with.

*Just show up in everything you do.

*Show up to the city you want to be in, the events you want to be at, to work, your co-writing session on time and early and people will start noticing.

With over 20 years experience in Nashville's music industry, Eric Hurt is the first official team member of EMPIRE Nashville as their VP of A&R, spearheading EMPIRE's Country initiative around Willie Jones with one of his first EMPIRE signings being iHeart Media podcast & soundtrack Bear and a Banjo; produced by T Bone Burnett, narrated by actor Dennis Quaid, and written by Grammy winning producer/writer Jason Boyd aka Poo-Bear and Jared Gudstadt. The project features Zac Brown as well as a song co-written with Bob Dylan. Previously, he was Sr. Director of Creative at Black River Publishing in Nashville representing 5x #1 hit writer/producer Josh Kerr, Black River artist Abby Anderson, producer Bobby Huff, among many others. 

This week I’m talking with banjo picker extraordinare Matt Menefee who has worked with Ricky Skaggs, Mumford and Sons and Bruce Hornsby as well as other artists from all genres of music.  We discuss the importance of being around the people you want to work with and making your presence known. Plus, how the internet can be your best tool as an indie artist or musician.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Working with Ricky Skaggs, Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys, Meatloaf, Big and Rich,  Bruce Hornsby, Mumford and Sons, Steven Curtis Chapman and more. *Go to industry parties, etc. and meet people that are plugged in. That is how you get work. *You have to be in the scene to be seen. *The internet is your biggest and best tool.  *Procure as much of as a presence as you can.   *If you’re going to live somewhere else you need to focus on content for the internet. *Attending jam sessions and writer’s rounds, etc is the best way to plugged in. *Learn to record music and get around in a DAW if you want to keep up with everyone else. *Be present in the moment. * Contact Matt at https://www.facebook.com/matt.menefee.79

BIO: Matt is one of the freshest and most interesting voices on any instrument I’ve heard in a long time. What a blast listening to him and playing music together. - Warren Haynes, The Allman Brothers Band, Gov't Mule Matt,

TheBanjoPlayer’s name might be simple but the music of the man that wears the moniker is anything but. Rare is the musician that possesses such a strange ability to blend and intersect the complicated nuances of the head with the passionate sways of the heart. And somehow incorporate them with subtlety and power. Transforming an age old instrument into something more like a five string version of Doc Brown’s time-traveling Delorean. Seamlessly dancing back and forth between traditional sounds and future-seeking modern motifs. Lauded by Grammy award-winning banjo player Winston Marshall of Mumford and Sons as his ‘‘biggest inspiration on the banjo'“, MATT’s other-worldly banjo playing has received praise from all corners of the musical universe. 

His unique approach to the 5-string has led him to record and perform with such luminaries as Béla Fleck, Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys, Ricky Skaggs, Jerry Douglas, and Mumford And Sons; just to name a few.  

First introduced to the banjo through his grandpas love for bluegrass music, Matt connected quickly with the instrument. And at 17 his coming out party included winning the prestigious Winfield National Banjo Championship. From there he co-founded two  critically acclaimed bluegrass-acoustic super groups Cadillac Sky and Chess Boxer and circled the planet with his banjo in hand.  Around the same time that Matt was studying the works of Earl Scruggs and Béla Fleck, Matt was also falling in love with the music in video games. Before long Shuckin’ the Corn was cross breeding with Sonic the Hedgehog and in 2018 he decided to combine his most powerful musical influences - video game music and bluegrass - and recorded a record under the name The Hit Points of which Higher Plain Music called The Hit Points debut the ‘Biggest surprise of 2018 to date’ and Gamasutra recognized that The Hit Points gave listeners ‘the album they never knew they needed’.  As FiveSpeedbanjo.com put it, ‘Clark Kent climbs into a phone booth and transforms into The Man of Steel, Matt Menefee climbs into a banjo case and becomes MATT, TheBanjoPlayer.’  Whether it’s carving out sonic spaces within genres as diverse as hip hop, rock, EDM, Jazz, or classical music, or colluding with former C-Sky bandmate Bryan Simpson to create the Alt-bluegrass sounds of The Golden Age or continuing to integrate the compositions of video games with the sounds of bluegrass, MATT, TheBanjoPlayer is just beginning to come into his own. Whether it’s as MATT, TheBanjoPlayer or MATT, TheBanjoPlayer Plays Video Games he is changing the colors and sounds that have for so long ear-marked the banjo. Be on the lookout for MATT, TheBanjoPlayer.

Matt is technically one of the best musicians I have ever worked with. Yes, he is very gifted, but also he works non-stop at his craft. - John Cowan, founding member of New Grass Revival

This week I’m talking with my good friend Christian Sancho. Christian is a professional touring bass player who is currently working with country artist Ashley McBryde. We are discussing the dos and dont's when auditioning to be in a band for a major label artist plus, the differences in playing small venues vs. large arenas and late night talk shows.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*The difference in playing for academic purposes vs. playing with people. *What the audition process is like for a major touring band. *Making sure to learn songs note for note when auditioning for a tour and being prepared. *the touring band usually knows who they want to audition to be in the band. *looking the part. *Touring with country artist Ashley McBryde. *Playing late night talk shows.  *Self editing. *The differences in opening for an artist and headlining your own show. *Tricks for playing in dark venues. *In ears vs. wedge monitors *Do your homework. *Where you spend your time networking is hopefully where you end up working. *Have a clear picture of what you want to do. *Be open to learning. *Pay scale for playing on different tours. *being the star of an Eric Church music video -   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_CksCHnooM *https://www.ashleymcbryde.com

BIO:

Christian Sancho is a professional touring bass player. Originally from Milwaukee WI, Christian has worked with country acts such as Hailey Whitters, Maddie and Tae and Ashley McBryde. He grew up playing in church and came to Nashville to study at Belmont University. He has toured ever since with cover bands as well as working with various churches until 2017 when he started touring with country artist Ashley McBryde full time. 

This week I’m talking with Alex Whiten of The Stable Collective in Franklin, TN. Alex is on the team that handles artist management and brand development for Steven Curtis Chapman, Mary Beth Chapman and Jillian Edwards.  We are discussing how living where you want to work and making yourself known to people will help you when opportunities become available. Plus, how the look and feel of a project, website and social media should be intertwined and cohesive. And we talk about the importance of having skills that are transferable to a lot of different roles in the industry.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Be in the community and someone people think of when jobs become available. *You need to live the town where you want to work. *Works for the artist management company The Stable Collective. *Artist Management is where you wear a lot of different hats. *Marketing, social media, brand identity, project management. *Being a manager is like bike wheel with the artist at the center. *Branding is looking at the bigger picture of what you want the audience to feel. *Everything should be intertwined and cohesive - the look, sound, feel of a project, website, tour, etc. *Knowing how to cater to the audience of an artist with very different styles. *Having a strong vision for how to reach different audiences. *Everyday in management is very different. *Be relational. *Be someone people enjoy spending time with. *Be diligent. *Have skills that are transferable to a lot of different roles. *Road manager is a great place to start.

BIO: A 28 year old Phoenix native currently living in Nashville, TN, Alex is an artist manager with roots in photography, design, and social media marketing. He was inspired at a young age to serve and grow the careers of musicians and artists who are passionate about the art they feel called to create. After studying music business in 2012, he joined forces with Mark Mattingly and Steven Curtis Chapman to launch management company The Stable Collective in February of 2017.

Social links:  alexwhiten.com Instagram and Twitter at @alexwhiten

This week I am kicking off season 4 talking with my hero, mentor and dear friend Steve Curtis Chapman. Steven is celebrating 35 years in the music industry this year and is celebrating by releasing a brand new album called “Still.” He is the most awarded artist in Christian music history with 49 No. 1 singles, 59 GMA Dove Awards, multiple GRAMMYs and much more. He’s also one of the most down-to-earth people you will ever meet. We are discussing our history together, both being from Paducah, KY and his dad Herb Chapman being our guitar teacher and the impact he’s had on our lives, following where the music takes you in the songwriting process and struggling to put out new music and feeling relevant in today’s culture and his new album “Still” being the result of that struggle.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*SCC’s autobiography “Between Heaven and the Real World." *The impact that Herb Chapman had on Steven’s career as a guitar teacher. *Teaching his son’s how to navigate into the music industry. *Follow where the music takes you in the songwriting process. *Deciding which songs will end up on an album. *SCC’s brand new album “STILL.” *Struggling to put out new music and feeling relevant in today’s culture. *Writing music from a new perspective. *Bloom where you’re planted. *www.stevencurtischapman.com

BIO: Steven Curtis Chapman has spent the last 35 years writing and performing genre-defining songs that shaped a generation. With a staggering 49 No. 1 singles in his catalog, he is the most awarded artist in Christian music history, winning 59 GMA Dove Awards, five GRAMMY Awards, an American Music Award, and selling more than eleven million albums with ten RIAA-Certified Gold or Platinum albums. In short, he is synonymous with contemporary Christian music. After so much success, some might think recording a new album would be second nature. But for Chapman, starting a new chapter wasn’t so easy.

The ever-present inner critic whispering “can he do it again?” made him question whether making new music was the right move. He says, “It’s a two-edged sword. At some point, you walk in with a bunch of new songs hoping people are ready to hear something new. The hard part is people don’t always want that. They want to hear the hits.” But he found he still had stories left to tell. “I finally gave myself permission to say, don’t question if this is relevant or where it’s gonna fit or will it work in the current landscape of Christian music. I had to silence the voices, sit down with my guitar, and write whatever was stirring in me, let it come out however it came out.”

It’s Chapman back to his glory days, recalling mega-hits like “The Great Adventure,” “Dive,” and “More To This Life,” but don’t mistake familiarity as a re-hash....Still is filled with entirely fresh, life-giving songs for the masses. His gift for writing tear-stained lyrics about serving a God he doesn’t always understand but always, always trusts is on full display. Chapman holds nothing back, his full-voiced cries of praise echoing God’s faithfulness in days gone by and trust in His mercy for the days ahead. “That’s what I’m trying to do with this project,” Chapman says, “remember where I’ve been and where I’m going.” With lead track “Still,” to “Don’t Lose Heart,” “I’m Alive,” “Kindness,” and “A Desperate Benediction (Peace On Earth),” Chapman’s willingness to shine a light on his pain, struggles, and faith, but also his joy, redemption, and hope infuses Still with universal goodness. 

This week I’m talking with Songtradr CEO Paul Wiltshire. Paul founded Songtradr which is the largest online sync agency platform in the world. We are discussing how Songtradr works if you are looking for an agency to rep your music, the benefits of being on their playlists, why it is essential to upload WAV files and the necessity of having instrumental versions of your songs on Songtradr’s platform.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Founder and CEO of Songtradr *The difference in American and Australian music. *How Songtradr works. *How cover songs work on Songtradr’s platform. *The benefits of being on a Songtradr playlist. *Metadata issues. *You MUST upload WAV files. *You will not get a license with an MP3 file. *The best ways to get your music noticed on Songtradr. *The value of creating momentum. *The quality of production. *The importance of uploading instrumental files, stems and lyrics. *Ways to improve your chances of getting your music heard on Songtradr. *Make sure there’s an instrumental version. *www.songtradr.com

BIO

Paul is a music and technology entrepreneur with over 30 years experience across the music and media industries. An award winning record producer and songwriter having produced and/or composed music with sales in excess of 15,000,000 records including twelve number #1 albums and singles.  Paul founded Songtradr in 2014 and after 2 years of development, the Songtadr platform officially launched in March 2016 and has since rapidly grown to service 250,000+ artists and music creators around the globe, licensing music to advertisers, brands, films, TV and other media. Extremely passionate about democratizing the music industry for all creatives, Paul works tirelessly on providing the tools, opportunity and access for the Songtradr community of artists, songwriters and composers.

This week I'm talking with my friend Ben Phillips who has done pretty much everything there is to do in the music industry.  We are discussing road vs session drumming, relationships, producing, mixing, editing, demos vs. master recordings and how exploiting your strengths can give you an advantage at making a living in the music industry.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Started playing drums at nine years old.

*Found ways to be around music anyway I could growing up.

*Went to Belmont University and studied studio engineering.

*I changed to session drumming as my focus.

*I would take any gig learning to play in all situations.

*Right out of college I had my first road gig with a signed artist from an audition.

*It was a stepping stone for me getting that experience.

*That led to a gig with a signed country artist because of relationship I had with a friend of mine who worked for the producer Dan Huff told him to put an band together for the tour and he called and asked if I was interested.

*It took 4 or 5 years of being in town and building relationships before I got that opportunity.

*The friendship I had with a bass player in college led to most of my gigs in the early days.

*New drummers wanting to do studio work should work on listening to everybody else, really listening to the vocal and going back and listening to how what you play affects the other parts.

*It’s good to understand production and know that there is going to be more stuff added later.

*You’re there to serve the producer and the artist, not yourself.

*Some people I have drummed for on records are Matthew West, Rush of Fools, Steven Curtis Chapman, Michael W. Smith, Blake Shelton, Chase Rice, Chris Jansen and more.

*When I was tracking drums in sessions I got be around a lot of great studio engineers and I got to ask them questions and learn a lot that way.

*I went through a period where it was hard to find good paying gigs and I quit for about 2 years.

*I moved away from Nashville and when I came back I decided to put a studio in my house, so I started reconnecting with and building relationships with friends from Belmont while meeting new people.

*It was slow for a few months while trying to reconnect and get work.

*I got a call from a college friend who needed me to play drums on session for CCM producer Pete Kipley at a studio on Music Row.

*Pete had a friend producing a song for Rebecca St. James for the Narnia soundtrack and asked if I would play drums on that.

*That led to a lot of work on different projects which set me on the path I’m on now.

*All of these relationships led from one thing to a bunch of things.

*I never know where the next lead or next step is going to come from.

*When it came to getting good drum sounds, I didn’t like how others were doing it so I learned to do it myself.

*I was one of the first people in Nashville to have a home studio before it became the norm.

*I got married so I moved the studio to another house in a different part of town.

*Because of another relationship I met a guitar player named Ilya Toshinskiy and he got me a lot of work doing country demos at my studio.

*Country writers were coming in all the time so I got to do a lot of work tracking and mixing for Shane MacAnally from the show Songland, Old Dominion, Sam Hunt, Kacey Musgraves and more before their careers took off.

*When you’re mixing a song with a writer there, you get more time to sit and talk with them and build relationships with them.

*A “demo” is a demonstration recording to show the label or manager how the song could go.

*Chris Jansen’s radio single “Buy Me Boat” is the demo that I recorded and mixed.

*A country or CCM demo average cost is $800 - 1000 for a full demo per song.

*A major label Country album recording can cost $20,000 per song on average.

*A Contemporary Christian Music label song is on average $2,000-4,000 per song.

*I can do a demo in about 4-5 hours per song, which is very fast.

*Musicians make about $60 an hour and usually do 3 songs in 3 hours at a time for $180 to record a demo if you’re with the Musician’s Union.

*On a master scale recording that ends up on an album the musician will make up to $750 for 3 hours an average.

*On a demo you only get paid for the work recording the demo.

*Recording on a album cut you can get royalties on the back end as well.

*A studio can be $2000 per day.

*If there is a bigger budget, everything is going to cost more just because you can charge it.

*They only charge $1000 per demo because they have to pay for multiple demos to then choose which songs to use on the album and re record those demos, so the demo budget per song is lower.

*Engineers and mixers only get paid for the initial work on the song, no back end royalties, so they charge more up front.

*A friend asked if he could do some guitar overdubs at my studio with producer Scott Hendricks and we hit it off and that got me working with him doing editing for major albums like Blake Shelton and more.

*Editing is cleaning up the recordings and making sure that everything is lined up and any pops and clicks, etc. are gone.

*Slow down and listen.

*I’m still striving for the next thing, still pushing for how to improve and get better, how to get to the next level.

*There is no finish line.

*I’m still learning how to play the game.

*What is the game? Music business, politics and relationships.

*What I want to put out in the music business is my reputation, cause if I don’t have a good reputation, I don’t have anything.

*I sold my studio and started renting space at Sea Gayle Publishing to focus on mixing and to be able to go to other studios to work.

*I had to change people’s perspective of being the guy drummed and could mix to being the mixer or the producer, so I sold my studio.

*There’s really no difference between and demo and a master recording. It just depends on if the demo gets placed on album or not. It still needs to be done at the highest level possible.

“Phase” is timing so when you put a plugin on something and there’s delay compensation and it’s not compensated correctly, it’s going to be out of phase from what you originally tracked it from depending on what plugin you put on it.

“Phase” is not a technical decision, it’s a creative decision.

*I can do a complete demo of a song from start to finish in 5-6 hours.

*A lot of people will send me a demo they had done somewhere else and ask me to fix it and make it better using the existing tracks.

*Production is managing expectations.

*Exploit your strengths.

*Go to where they’re making music you want to be a part of.

*The studio world and the live world do not generally mingle in Nashville.

*If you don’t want to play live, don’t start.

*It’s a paradox because when you start out you have to take any gig that will come along and a lot of times that’s a road gig.

*I didn’t really start working until I realized this is a business first.

*I am in the service industry of giving my clients what they want.

*Have integrity and be fair to everybody and have a good attitude.

*Marriage relationships are more important they your musical job so make decisions based on that.

*There are 100x more people making a living in the music business that are not famous than those that are famous.

*You never know what an opportunity will lead to, so say yes when you can.

*Work begets work.

*Make a decision and if doesn’t work, make a different decision.

*Most people want me to send an mp3 attachment, not a link.

*Give the client what they want.

*Send links that do not expire.

Ben Phillips started playing drums at the age of 9 in Atlanta, Ga. At age 14 he began engineering at his church and school. He continued this tag team with different bands until he got to college at Belmont University in Nashville, Tn. There he started focusing on recording and playing in the studio. When he graduated in 1997 he began touring with signed country artist SheDaisy, and a variety of local bands, while also recording with various christian and independent artists. In 2005 he started a studio in house and later moved to a dedicated studio spot in Berry Hill, Tn. He would play drums, record, mix, engineer and produce for a variety of artists. Some of the artists he’s worked with include: Blake Shelton, Chris Janson, Brett Eldridge, Building 429, Francesca Battistelli, Big Daddy Weave, Dustin Lynch, Steven Curtis Chapman and Old Dominion as well as songs for the tv show Nashville. In 2019 he sold the studio to concentrate on mixing and producing and now has a mix room off of Music Row in Nashville.

This week I’m talking with Rebecca St. James at Lifest 2022. Rebecca is a GRAMMY®-winning singer/songwriter, best-selling author, speaker and among the most defining artists in Christian music history. She also comes from a family that is firmly rooted in the music business, with a father who is a successful manager and brothers who make up the duo for KING & COUNTRY. We are discussing being part of musical family that works together in the industry, the role of a producer and a label and not letting yourself buy into what people say about you.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Mentoring artists. *The co-writing process. *The role of a producer and a label. *Structuring songs. *Don’t buy into what people say about you. *Being part of musical family that works together in the industry. *Bloom where God plants you. *Be faithful with the little things. *Practice your art. *Rebecca St. James: Friends and Family Podcast. *https://www.accessmore.com/pd/Rebecca-St-James-Friends-and-Family *www.rebeccastjames.com

BIO:

Among the most defining artists in Christian music history, GRAMMY®-winning singer/songwriter, best-selling author, speaker and actress Rebecca St. James rocketed into the global spotlight following the release of her self-titled ForeFront Records debut in 1994. The Australian native’s modern pop sensibilities and uncompromising lyrics set a benchmark in Christian music, leading a new generation of artistry in the genre.     St. James has earned multiple Dove Awards, nine #1 Christian radio singles and two GOLD®-certified recordings, and her discography includes such iconic albums as Pray, God and Transform. Author of the best-selling titles Wait For Me (Thomas Nelson) and Pure (Hachette/Faithwords), among others, she starred in the 2009 film Sarah’s Choice; portrayed Mary Magdalene in the groundbreaking rock opera !Hero; and voiced "Hope, The Angel" in VeggieTales’ best-selling DVD The Easter Carol, in addition to other diverse roles. An award-winning songwriter, St. James co-penned multiple selections on for KING & COUNTRY’s blockbuster 2019 recording, Burn the Ships, and she is also the host of Rebecca St. James Friends & Family, a new weekly podcast on marriage and parenting available on K-LOVE Radio’s Accessmore platform.

This week I am talking with Wes Cole who works for sync licensing agency Brewhouse Music in L.A. where he helps musicians by partnering with them and getting their music placed and heard on tv/film projects and commercial ads. We are discussing what it takes to work for sync licensing agencies and custom music houses and also what artists need to do in order to pitch their music successfully to agencies for sync placement. Plus, metadata, metadata, metadata.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking points:

*I went to California State University Northridge for the music industry program.

*I had a business law class and ended up getting an internship because the substitute teacher was a rep for a sync company called Position Music.

*I learned about metadata, metadata, metadata.

*I learned how to take a song from just the artistic view and make it commercially viable.

*The more chances you get to do internships the more chances you have of growing.

*Metadata is the most essential aspect of sync music because you are tagging the song with information like: artist, genre, mood, contact info, keywords, etc.

*Have the ear for what makes a track syncable.

*When a song sounds like it was written for sync, that can actually hurt you. You want it to be an authentic artist piece that incorporates the elements that work for sync (stomps, claps, call and response vocals, etc).

*Remain persistent.

*I moved on to intern at Human Worldwide which focused on advertising music.

*Be willing to stay late and do extra work where you build trust so you can move up in a company.

*The machine room is a team of people that work behind the scenes pulling tracks from the catalog and editing them to picture and cleaning them up and cleaning up videos sent in by clients and making sure the voice overs are attached, etc.

*If you want to do something in a company you have to ask for it. You can’t expect them to give you the opportunity.

*I wanted to start writing music for the briefs coming in so I got that opportunity and it started open so many doors for me because I got first hand feedback from their creative team to tell me ways to improve my song and get the right mix and listening to the reference track and using the right tempo, etc.

*Sometimes you get to write to picture and sometimes you have to make it up in your head so you have to work off a reference.

*I got hired at Massive Music which is an international music house.

*I learned how to do business development with them which is important to know as as freelance composer you don’t have a sales rep working for you. This teaches you how to interact with agencies, copywriter, art directors, etc.

*There is a certain etiquette to interacting with these people.

*When trying to reach out to people you want to license your music, be direct. Say who you are, what you’re doing a give a downloadable link to your music.

*I will know quickly whether or not we will be able to work together.

*Be short and sweet, but have enough intrigue to catch someone’s attention.

*Only reach out when you have music that fits what that person/company is working on.

*If you can, add a life antidote that connects with what you saw on the spot that company worked on and how it impacted you or how you enjoy some aspect of the the spot. That personal connection can be huge.

*Brands have a certain sound.

*Tape delay is one of the most essential tools in sprucing up your sound.

*Make songs that are not too busy so they don’t distract from what’s on the screen.

*I currently work for Brewhouse Music as the Producer focusing on business development, focusing on brands and creatives, while managing our catalog and signing artists and making sure everything gets done on time, etc.

*We are always being asked for music that sounds like hip hop, vintage sounding beats, holiday music and women empowerment.

*We get asked for custom music vs. artist music about 50/50.

*There are huge benefits to have unreleased music that you can put out once it gets placed so they the client can “break” the artist.

*But, if you’re trying to build a following and be out touring etc, I wouldn’t wait because it can take a while for songs to get placed.

*I’m looking for artists that have top quality production value.

*Submit the absolute best quality music.

*Ad music is very specific, not too many genres.

*When creating custom music we use our in house team and outside artists.

*When writing custom music you get paid a demo fee of around $300.

*A sting may pay a demo of around $150.

*If you win the spot, commercial usage pays from around $3000-10,000 for digital online use, not broadcast use. Broadcast can grow exponentially depending on usage.

*If you want to be an artist pitching music for sync, don’t base your music off what you think is going to be syncable. Always write what comes natural to you, then figure out how to add syncable elements that will help boost its commercial appeal.

*Write what is authentic to you because we’ll know whether its something you wrote because you thought it would sound good in a commercial. That’s not going to do as well as an authentic piece which is what the agencies are looking for.

Write as many songs as possible in your own vein and produce them as well as you possibly can and take a chance and throw it out there and see what happen. You would be surprised at the opportunities that can come.

*If you want to work for a sync licensing agency, start taking as many opportunities as possible whether interning, reaching out to sync houses in your area and seeing if you can shadow someone or getting a phone call with someone so they know your name and you can show you interest. It never hurts to ask to see if they are looking for someone to help out.

*You may have to do a lot for a little to get in the door.

*Be willing to put in extra hours.

*Network you head off.

www.brewhousemusic.com

Weslee Cole is an independent artist/producer from Simi Valley, CA.  Having worked within the Music Industry in several fields such as composition, sync licensing, and live events he holds a wide understanding of the business and how it works. Wes currently deals with artists, composers, and clients at BrewHouse Music a custom, sync licensing company located in Los Feliz. (@brewhousemusic) His goal is to help musicians reach the next big step in their careers through partnering with them and getting their music placed and heard.

This week I’m talking with Korey Hicks from Visible Music College. Korey Hicks is the Head of both the Music Theory and Guitar Divisions globally at Visible Music College, one of the premier Christian institutions of higher learning in the country. In addition to being a professor and guitar teacher, Korey spent years playing in the House Band at Billy Bob's Texas (aka, the World's Largest Honkytonk) and has opened for Willie Nelson, REO Speedwagon, Dwight Yoakam, John Fogerty and dozens of other big artists. We are discussing what it’s like to teach 70 guitar students a week, the difficulty of auditioning for large scale music venues as a house band musician and learning to love the process of practicing on a regular basis.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*What it’s like to teach 70 guitar students a week. *Journaling your practicing regiment. *Cycle 4 ( the Circle of Fifths backwards). *How to learn 600 songs in a month. *Using the mind, the ear and the hand. *A musician is only as good as the number of songs they can play. *The difficulty of auditioning for large scale music venues as a house band musician. *Think like an arranger, not a guitar player. *If you want to make music for a living, you have to work at like a full time job. *Working for Visible Music College. *Be efficient. *Perfect pitch vs. relative pitch. *The Performance Gap. *What students learn from Korey at Visible College. *Be fearless, say yes to as many gigs as possible. *Play music you don’t particularly like. *Work on your ear training. *Learn to love the process of practice. *Use a practicing journal. *Cover bands make more money that artists who write original music as a whole. *https://visible.edu/

BIO:

Korey Hicks is the Head of both the Music Theory and Guitar Divisions globally at Visible Music College, one of the premier Christian institutions of higher learning in the country.

On his way to creating a sustainable career in the music industry, Korey has played over 4000 live performances in the last 25 years and has been blessed to share the stage with some of the biggest names in contemporary music. A stylistic chameleon, he has played in a wide variety of genres, including Country, Worship, Pop, Rock, Jazz and Blues on some of the most iconic stages in the country. Venues include playing for years in the House Band at Billy Bob's Texas (aka, the World's Largest Honkytonk), and opening for Willie Nelson, REO Speedwagon, Dwight Yoakam, John Fogerty and dozens of other big artists.

He is an Alumnus of Berklee College of Music, and graduated Magna Cum Laude from McNally Smith College of Music with a Bachelor's Degree in Guitar Performance. 

This week we end season 4 with recording artist, producer, and songwriter Galen Crew in Nashville, TN. Galen’s music is known for its dream-like quality which often features deep yet whimsical themes and seems to emanate from a different world. He is a huge fan of Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and other fantasy writers and if you imagine the mysterious Grimm Brothers fairy tale collections being somehow transformed into modern pop songs - you’ll start to get idea of the imagery, depth and layers within Galen’s music. Although an American artist, Galen’s music went viral in China and he has become a major pop star in that country. We are discussing writing music more like fairytales than mainstream music, working with legendary songwriter Roger Cook and building a huge fanbase and touring in China as an independent artist.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Working with legendary songwriter Roger Cook. *Writing music more like fairytales than mainstream music. *Going viral in China. *Building a fanbase and being able to tour exclusively in China. *Touring with and producing music for Phil Joel from Newsboys. *Authenticity. *Value relationships.


*Having integrity as a producer. *Demo and master recording rates. *Have identity and security in yourself, not the industry. *Diversification of skillset. *www.galencrew.com *www.music.163.com in China.

BIO: Galen Crew is an American recording artist, producer, and songwriter from Nashville, Tennessee. His music is known for its dream-like quality which often features deep yet whimsical themes and seems to emanate from a different world. At his core, Galen is a storyteller. He crafts stories that pull from various art forms….citing fantasy authors such as Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, and Herman Hesse as having inspired him just as much as the Beatles, Coldplay, and John Mayer. Imagine if the mysterious Grimm Brothers fairy tale collections were somehow transformed into modern pop songs – and you’ll start to get idea of the imagery, depth, and layers within Galen’s music.

Having played in various bands throughout his life, Galen had always been primarily the songwriter and guitarist. But at age 19, he began writing unique material that didn’t fit with any of the bands he was playing with, and he tentatively stepped out as a vocalist himself. The first few demos he recorded as a solo artist immediately caught the attention of Roger Cook, legendary British songwriter (“I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing”; “Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress”). Galen and Roger have now written over 100 songs together. One of them, titled “Sleepyhead” – a unique story song that is something of a medieval myth or fairy tale – organically went viral in China. Upon discovering that his music was gaining millions upon millions of streams on Chinese music platforms, Galen toured the country twice – and found that although he had never been to Asia before, his fans knew the words to his songs in every city he performed in. Galen describes the experience as being simultaneously surreal and inspiring. In fall 2016 he teamed up with Hover Coalition Music.

This week I am talking with Benjamin and Kassie Wilson of the Americana duo Goldpine. Formerly called My One and Only, Goldpine is cathartic, moody, raucous, and relevant all wrapped into one package as they tour the U.S. playing for audiences large and small. We are discussing changing band names and how it affects you, starting over from an audience perspective and The process of booking shows as an indie artist.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Changing band names and how it affects you. *Starting over from an audience perspective. *Starting from zero. *The benefits of going to school for audio engineering. *The process of booking shows as an indie artist. *How to create a great booking email. *Being persistent in booking. *Make an excel spreadsheet to keep track of booking. *How far out to book a tour. *Getting into the house concert circuit. *How to play downtown Broadway in Nashville and use it to your advantage. *Don’t let “NO” control you. *www.goldpinemusic.com

BIO: Americana act Goldpine was built by married couple Benjamin and Kassie Wilson (formerly called “My One and Only”).  From festivals like 30A Songwriting Festival and Bristol Rhythm & Roots Reunion to listening rooms throughout the United States, Goldpine has been offering their own brand of raw Americana to audiences large and small.  Finalists in the Kerrville Folk Fest 2021 New Folk Competition, the duo’s bold harmonies are clearly a channel for their highly charged songwriting.  Exposing the pains of severed relationships and unearthing the pursuits of love and purpose, Goldpine is cathartic, moody, raucous, and relevant all wrapped into one. Touring since 2015, they have been lessening the gap between music and the audience by disclosing their stories behind the lyrics at every venue along the way. 

This week I’m talk with Matt Roberts and Joe Piver from Jeff Roberts & Associates in Nashville, TN. JRA is a booking agency that works with some of the biggest names in Christian music including We The Kingdom, For King and Country and Skillet as well as breakout artists Anne Wilson, Katy Nicole, CAIN and many more. We are discussing the process of booking an artist into different types of venues, the cost of touring and the differences in booking new artists vs. established artists.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*What a booking agency does. *The process of booking an artist for a venue. *What the vision of the artist is for the year. *The process for booking new artists vs. established artists. *The long range goals for touring artists. *Investing in people. *The cost of touring and taking care of your team in the road. *The price range of bringing artists into venues. *Every artist is a small business owner. *The benefits of internships with different music business companies. *https://jeffroberts.com/

BIO: Matt Roberts - General Manager Originally born in Lansing, MI, Matt has lived in Nashville since Jeff moved the family in 1983. While pursuing a childhood passion to compete in stock car racing, Matt was afforded a unique experience to learn about corporate sponsorship acquisition. This interest evolved into a Bachelor's degree in Marketing from Western Kentucky University. After graduating, Matt felt called to be involved more deeply with the family business and transition his passion for business to JRA. He has now been involved with JRA for over 20 years, representing the rock bands of the early 2000’s, to the artists of today. He finds one of the most rewarding experiences to be the relationships created through the support of so many artists touring careers. Matt enjoys spending time with his wife Heather, their two French Bulldogs, mountain biking, and what little time is remaining, dabbling in automotive projects in his shop.

Joe Piver - Senior Agent Originally from Southeast North Carolina, Joe has spent over 25 years in the music business. He has toured as an artist, worked as an agent and manager, promoted dozens of shows and artists, and even started a festival. He has a degree in percussion performance from Wingate University and a Masters in Religion from Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary in Boston. For the past 10 years, he’s served as an adjunct professor at Trevecca Nazarene University in Nashville. He is currently in his 16th year at JRA. Joe has been married for 16 years to his wife Amanda and they have one son named August. They currently reside in Hendersonville Tennessee. In the spare time he has, he loves to travel and spend time with his family. You will almost never see Joe not wearing his Red Sox cap.

This week I’m talking with Christian music artist Tom Golly. Tom is a successful independent artist who has had a lot of success touring and working the festival circuit on his own initiative. We are discussing how to reach out to churches and music festivals as an indie artist when booking tours and how to have the best chance to make it on the main stage of festivals. Plus, the importance of hiring band members who will become like family to you, not just employees.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*The state of the Christian music scene. *You’re only as good as the people you surround yourself with. *the process of hiring players to tour with you. *Have a servant’s heart. *Dealing with other’s limitations. *Treat your players better than you treat yourself. *Give your musicians the space to do what they are great at. *Build a family, not employees. *Booking festivals as an indie artist. *Learn how to craft an email for booking shows. *Beware of scammers who claim they can get you gigs. *How to make a booking agent want to hear more. *Perspective is everything. *The Tom Golly Official podcast on You Tube.

BIO: Tom Golly is a Christian singer/songwriter from Nashville Tennessee. Born and raised in Long Island New York. Since 2010, Tom has immersed himself in music and has never looked back.  Following his move to Nashville, TN he recorded his first EP "Not Going Back".  The project was written with Jake Jones and Justin Forshaw of As We Ascend at RMS Studios. Much of the music reflects Tom’s life experiences and journey through of faith.

Tom’s music is a unique energetic blend of Christian Contemporary Pop & Worship with a little bit of rock edge that has seen much success on streaming platforms .His last 3 releases have done well on Spotify seeing his music added to major playlists and has had as much as 40,000 monthly listeners.

His first radio single " Let Your Heart Be Found " made it to the Billboard  " Most Added " Charts. Tom has found much success touring nationally and sharing the stage with some of Christian music’s biggest acts such as, Matthew West, Mandisa, Matt Maher, Tauren Wells, NEWSBOYS, Matthew West,  Francesca Battistelli, For King & Country, Danny Gokey, JJ Weeks, Zealand, Chris August, Jordan Feliz, Zach Williams, We Are Messengers, Carrolton & many more.  In May of 2019 Tom released a new single " KEEP FIGHTING " which has rocketed to over 150,000 Spotify streams in less than 4 months.

Following the success of the single, Tom has since launched The " Keep Fighting Movement " Which is not only a website aimed to be a place for those in need of prayer and encouragement, but a resource page for those seeking help.

In this welcome episode, host John Martin Keith sits down with his wife, Keely Brooke Keith, to discuss the purpose of this podcast and why it is important for people are who wanting to or are actively trying to make a living in the music industry. 

Episode 0 Show Notes:

This episode is brought to you by Edenbrooke Productions. We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com or use the contact form.

Talking points: * Today’s special guest is musician and novelist Keely Brooke Keith. Not only is Keely a successful creative, she is Marty’s wife and business partner. * Who is John Martin Keith "Marty", what is his background in the music industry, and why is he starting this podcast? * If you’re interested in making a living in music or are trying to increase your music income, this podcast is for you. * No matter how much you already know, there is always something new to learn from the professionals who will be our guests on the podcast.

* It's determination and a lot of a lot of hard work and connections. * It takes multiple streams of income which is true in any creative profession right now. * For those that are married, you have to be able to take care of your family no matter what. * You have to have a spouse that is supportive of you and believes in what you're doing. * There are several things you could be doing to get your income to where bills are not an issue and that pressure within a relationship, if you're in a     family situation, is no longer an issue. * We get one life time, let's spend it doing something that we're passionate about. * During the 2008 recession while the economy was falling apart, I built a guitar teaching business during that time. * There are multiple, endless ways to make a living in music. It's not always creative. * There's still nuggets that I'm learning or re-remembering from the guests on the show. * It doesn't matter how good you are at anything. There's always something to learn. * It's relationships. * Technology has changed so much that you can do so much out of your home now. * If you're going to do music for a living you really need to be in a music city. * Success is different for everyone. * For me to be successful is to be able to support my family. * There’s room for everybody. * There are small steps you can start taking wherever you live to build a music career.

Links: * Podcast website: www.youcanmakealivinginthemusicindustry.podbean.com * Podcast facebook page: www.facebook.com/YouCanMakeALivingInTheMusicIndustry/

* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnmartinkeith/

Studio products Marty uses: * Marty’s favorite interface is the Universal Audio Apollo Twin.  * A good starter interface, which Marty still uses for the road is the Focusrite 2i2. * Ativa USB 4-port hub. https://amzn.to/31tDlji * To connect an older Mac to newer tv screens, thunderbolt, USBs, and everything, get a Startech TB2DOCK4KDHL docking station. * An electronic height adjustable desk that holds all of Marty’s equipment is the Realspace Magellan Performance Collection. * Marty uses the Apple Magic keyboard so he can keep his laptop closed and focus on the big screen. * And the beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohm headphones sound great and feel comfortable to Marty.

Some of these links are affiliate links. This means the company we link to may pay us a few pennies for sending you to them. We only link to products we truly recommend.

Gordon Kennedy - Episode 1 Show Notes:

I sat down with hit songwriter, producer and musician Gordon Kennedy to discuss his successful career, the ups and downs of the music business and how taking a series of one steps can lead to a great career in the music industry.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

Gordon Kennedy’s social media links: www.gordonkennedymusic.com

www.facebook.com/gordonkennedymusic

Talking Points:

* I think we're supposed to pray about and do our due diligence and get a peace about what's the next one step to take. Then when you take the one step, guess what you do? We do the same thing again. * Just one step is all that matters and don't get too bent out of shape over long-term plan. * Gordon has been building industry relationships since high school. * “Change The World” took years to write in small amounts between multiple writers. Once it became a single for the soundtrack, then that event caused   me and Wayne [Kirkpatrick] and Tommy [Sims] to start getting calls from people about "would you write us a song?" "Would you do one for Bonnie Raitt?", etc. * For some it doesn't make sense to do a publishing deal these days because publishing companies can't really pay. In fact they're embarrassed to offer what they're able to offer these days to a seasoned writer. * If people don't buy music, then you see the these draws (advances) that publishing companies give writers diminish to the point where they'd rather not offer a deal than offer the kind of deal they can these days. * Income streams for songwriters and publishers in performance royalties is still there. * Mechanical royalties (CD sales, etc) has pretty much vanished. * You have an advantage if you're an artist because a publisher can see an artist as being somebody that is going to bring them recorded songs rather than songs they have to go hit the sidewalks to pitch to try to get recorded. * Single steps lead to these other things. * Advantages of a publishing deal - someone to connect your songs to major artists. * Advantages of being self published - getting more money when a song is cut. * Tip Sheet - an industry form for publishers and song pluggers that list artists going in the studio and types of songs they are looking for. * Gordon has been a live player, a session player, a producer, a published writer, a self-published writer. * This is a calling that is on my life. * God doesn't call the equipped, God equips the called.

* I’ve tried the best I can to let priorities shape my goals rather than the other way around. A lot of times if your goal is to be a star, then your priorities can suffer as far as how you're going to be a husband, how you're going to be a father. They have to get in line behind these priorities, otherwise I'm not interested in that particular goal if I have to leave my family for weeks and weeks on end and be gone to achieve this goal, I'm not interested in that goal anymore. * If you're getting called a bunch for something, pay attention to what that might be and maybe that's something you should investigate. * Ricky Skaggs talks about God wanting us to study on and think about what the next one step is. Pray about that and when you get a peace about it, take that one step and then do the same thing again. * You’re writing your personal story right now. Be aware of that. Do the work now, don't put it off.

Links: * Podcast Facebook

* Podcast You Tube

* John Martin Keith Instagram

* John Martin Keith Twitter

Gordon Kennedy - BIO

Gordon Kennedy is a multi-Grammy Award winning songwriter and record producer, a virtuoso guitarist, and a music industry visionary in Nashville. With his love for storytelling, vintage guitars and his deep knowledge of music history, he has emerged as one of Music City’s most beloved Ambassadors. Kennedy’s live shows are a treasure trove of colorful backstories and outstanding performances that one only as talented and immersed in rich experiences can truly deliver. He came by it honestly as the son of legendary guitarist, Jerry Kennedy.

Kennedy sites his guitar pickin’, record producing dad and his singing mom, Linda Brannon, as his biggest musical influences. “While other families might gather around the TV to enjoy time together,” Kennedy recalls, “we gathered around a tape machine. My dad would come home every night and bring us new music that he had just recorded. My brothers Bryan, Shelby and I couldn’t wait to hear from Roger Miller, Bob Dylan, Roy Orbison, The Statler Brothers or Jerry Lee Lewis.” The Meet the Beatles album his dad gave him when he was five, and more records from his father’s days as an executive of the Mercury Records office of Nashville, provided him with a diverse diet of music. This, along with a basement full of his father’s guitars, a jukebox and a piano, nourished and inspired him as he became one of music’s finest songwriters, producers and players.

Kennedy’s most successful composition is the international hit song Change The World recorded by Eric Clapton for which Kennedy and his co-writers received a Grammy Award for Song of the Year in 1996. The song won Record of the Year for Eric Clapton, and spent a record breaking 81 weeks on the top of the charts. In 2007 Kennedy also received a Grammy Award for Best Pop Instrumental Album, co-producing, composing and performing on Peter Frampton’s Fingerprints album.  Bluegrass Legend Ricky Skaggs’s Grammy nominated Mosaic, released in 2010, was produced and co-written mostly by Kennedy. It was a career bending recording that was a departure from Skaggs’s bluegrass records. Skaggs called in Kennedy to produce after hearing his song demos. He wanted to recreate the Beatle-esqe musicality that Kennedy captures on the record.

In his early career, Kennedy was a member of the Christian Rock band White Heart for six years in the 1980s. His substituting on a few shows for high school friend Dan Huff ultimately led to a permanent position as the band’s lead guitar player and songwriter. Huff became a successful record producer and would later hire Kennedy to play on many records that became gold and platinum recordings. Kennedy played on Reba McEntire’s first #1 hit, Can’t Even Get The Blues in 1975 while a young student at Belmont University. Kennedy recalls that songwriting began to click for him in 1991 when he began co-writing with his friend, Wayne Kirkpatrick. Dogs of Peace formed in 1995. Their first album, Speak, was released in 1996. Twenty years later, in 2016, Kennedy, Jimmie Sloas, Blair Masters, John Hammond and Jeff Balding reunited for a second album called Heel. Kennedy, Kirkpatrick and Tommy Sims would later join forces in co-writing one of the biggest chart topping hits of their generation, Change The World. Kennedy not only received a Grammy for Song of the Year in 1996, but in 2002 a plaque on the Record Walk of Fame. In June 1997, the Southern Songwriters Guild inducted Gordon into the Songwriters Hall Of Fame in a ceremony in Louisiana.

As a songwriter, Kennedy has written 15 songs recorded by Garth Brooks. Kennedy co-wrote You Move Me recorded by Garth Brooks which reached #2 on the Billboard Country Airplay Chart in 1998. Brooks subsequently recorded ten more of Kennedy's songs on his alter-ego album, The Life of Chris Gaines, which reached No. 2 on the Billboard 200 chart. Kennedy will join Garth Brooks 2019 Stadium Tour on guitar. “Garth and I have been friends for many years. It’s a great honor to be asked to tour with him and the other fine musicians that will be a part of the band.” It’s a feather in the cap of a successful career for Kennedy to accompany his friend Garth on this legendary tour. “It’s not just anyone I’d leave my family, the comfort of my home and my studio to hit the road with, but Garth’s an exception.”

Bonnie Raitt has said that Gordon Kennedy is “one of her favorite songwriters.” It’s no surprise then, that four of her five recent singles have been Kennedy compositions. Kennedy's songs have also been recorded by artists including Alison Krauss, Stevie Nicks, Faith Hill, Don Henley, Tim McGraw, and Carrie Underwood. His compositions have been heard in the film soundtracks of Tin Cup, Phenomenon, For the Love of the Game, Where the Heart Is, Almost Famous, Summer Catch, Someone Like You, The Banger Sisters, Instant Family, and Disney’s The Fox & the Hound 2.

He has lent his talents as a player to Don Henley, Kenny Loggins, Reba McEntire, Michael McDonald, Leanne Rimes, Bruce Hornsby, Little Big Town and Shedaisy, among others. Seals and Crofts 2, the Beatles cover band Mystery Trip, and Tom Petty cover band The Petty Junkies are current projects Kennedy enjoys. He recently produced Shifting Gears, the new solo project of his longtime friend Larry Stewart of Restless Heart.

As a Belmont University alumnus, Gordon has been recognized as a Morris Family Mentor & Lecture Series, Curb College Distinguished Lecturer, and in 2014 received the Curb College’s Robert E. Mulloy Award of Excellence. Kennedy currently serves on the Belmont University Advisory Board, and has served on the Board of Governors for the Nashville’s National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences.

Kennedy has continually given to Belmont and its students for years. He has spoken at seminars, hosted events (including Belmont’s Homecoming concert, Homecoming in the Round), is an adjunct professor, and a student mentor.  Gordon is the fifth and final recipient of the Distinguished Lecturer, an honor given to industry professionals who inspire others through their work in the entertainment and music industry. In addition, Gordon served on Brentwood Academy’s Board of Trustees from 2007-2010 where he and his two children are graduates and remain active alumni.

In part 2 of my conversation with Jeremy Quarles, we focus on road managing different bands and artists including his current position with Grammy and Dove Award winner Steven Curtis Chapman as well as the ins and outs of running live sound for shows.

Show notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*What steps did you take to let people know that you wanted to transition into road managing?

*I learned a lot about road managing from Francesca Battistelli’s road manager Greg Lee. I watched him road manage her while I was doing production.

*When your road managing, there’s nobody to learn from because you’re doing the job. So that time was really instrumental to me because I was able to learn how to best do it.

*Greg Lee also worked for Streamlined Event Agency who’s main task is producing tours and they put road managers out on various tours. He was able to offer me a job road managing for some tours, short runs and one offs that the company produced.

*I also contacted other road managers that I knew and told them that I was moving into road managing and just letting people know that’s the direction I was heading.

*You can’t be afraid to let people know those things and ask for those things.

*I took about a year and a half to make the transition completely from a production guy who could road manage to a road manager who could do production.

*It’s uncomfortable and it’s hard work.

*If you can do anything and be satisfied with your life, then you should probably do something else. But if you can’t, then you know the music industry is for you.

*Some artists I’ve worked with: Love and the Outcome, Brandon Heath, Sidewalk Prophets, Mandisa, Aaron Shust, Anthem Lights, Selah, Hawk Nelson.

*What does “advancing a show” mean? It’s everything you do leading up to a show. Being in constant contact with the venue. Making sure they’re going to have food for the artists and dressing rooms, green rooms and private restrooms for the band, especially in churches which are not set up to be event venues. And helping the promoter prepare for the artist coming in.

*It can also be providing the most updated stage plots and backline rider so they can be as ready as they can be for the band coming in with no surprises.

*Then as road manager, I go on the road with the artist to make sure all of those things are actually getting done.

*My goal when I’m on the road is to have nothing to do because everything is already done. It’s just managing and making sure the day happens as we have it set up. That way if something comes up, you have the capacity to handle it instead of doing things that should have already been done in advance.

*As road manager I am responsible for getting the payment check and making sure it is correct.

*I usually email the promoter the week before they are cutting checks to remind them of the amount we agreed to.

*A cash buyout is when the promoter gives money to each band and crew member so they can eat out somewhere instead of catering the event. The amount is usually around $15-20 for lunch and $25-30 for dinner per person.

*Once a tour was over and I needed more work, I would connect with artist managers and artists I knew which opened doors.

*Front of House (FOH) Engineering means running sound for the what the audience hears and you’re out with the audience at a mixing console.

*Monitor engineering means running sound for what the band hears on stage either in-ears or floor monitors and you’re working side stage from the band.

*What’s the difference in FOH and monitor engineering? For me, I can make 6 people happy easier than 6,000 people. Running monitors is mixing the levels of instruments for each band member in their ears or floor wedges. It’s about making the musician as comfortable as possible so they can play the best they can.

*For monitor engineers, simplicity is best. There is a baseline of how things sound good, but if you’re at that baseline, take it simple.

*I now work for Steven Curtis Chapman as road manager and production manager.

*I got that job after working on a Jason Gray tour and met one of the artists named Lindsay McCaul. Lindsay’s husband Mark Mattingly came to visit who worked for Creative Trust who managed SCC and he did their live events at the time. Over time we started attending Fellowship Bible Church where Lindsay is a worship leader and was able to reconnect with her and Mark. I did some road managing for Mark with other artists as well. Mark is now SCC’s manager and was looking for a dedicated road manger for SCC and Mark called me to see if I would be interested and I said yes.

*You meet all of these people along the way and God directs your paths in the way you’re supposed to go.

*Day to day tasks as road manager for Steven Curtis Chapman - Advancing shows, communicating with promoters about 4-6 weeks ahead of a show. Looking at the calendar and staying on top of travel, booking flights and making sure we get to where we need to go. Taking care of meal buyouts. Lot’s of communication with the promoters to get ready for the show.

*I’m also mixing FOH and monitors for SCC since it’s only him performing on this tour.

*I make sure the venue has all the production we need at the venue so it is a smooth day.

*When it comes to the sound system at a church, the booking agent will send out a rider that has minimum requirements and they have to sign off on it saying their system meets these requirements or they are planning on bring in an external sound company.

*Advice for getting into live audio production or road managing -

*Don’t be afraid to say no to things that aren’t going to move you forward to where you want to be.

*For audio engineering - contacting local companies if you want to do live sound. They are all over the country and do concerts and all kinds of events that need a sound system. Contact them and tell them you want to work and learn.

*Have the spirit to want to learn because you need to learn the business and you need to be the best at it so you can to be able to succeed.

*For road managing - Foster relationships and be willing to learn and put yourself out there.

*Peach and Pine Home.com - Interior design company my wife and I run. I am the project manager and director of content.

*Love Where You Live Podcast - home tip and tricks

Jeremy grew up just north of Atlanta, GA and has always had a love for music and an entrepreneurial spirit. In 2008, Jeremy moved from Atlanta to Nashville, where he attended Belmont University to study Audio Engineering and Music. Though many in the program were drawn to the studio, he found himself being drawn toward the road.

While finishing school, Jeremy began to work at a local audio company in Nashville, where he started working live events both in Nashville and abroad. Upon graduating, Jeremy worked his way up as an audio contractor working various tours and conferences and eventually started to work for artists mixing FOH and Monitors. While his passion for the music industry was strong, Jeremy’s passion for the production side of live events started to wane. This led to a time of self-discovery, in which he found a new passion – road managing.

Over a period of two years, Jeremy began to intentionally transition his focus from being an audio engineer who could road manage to being a road manager who could also mix. In addition to going on the road as a road manager, Jeremy also began advancing for artists he didn’t travel with as an “Advance Manager.” Since starting to work as a Road/Advance Manager, Jeremy has worked for many of the biggest names in Christian music, including: Steven Curtis Chapman (current) Third Day Francesca Battistelli Brandon Heath Mandisa Love & The Outcome Sidewalk Prophets The Afters Christy Nockels Meredith Andrews Jason Gray Aaron Shust Anthem Lights Selah Hawk Nelson

Since late 2017, Jeremy has been the Road / Production Manager for Steven Curtis Chapman, which is his current position. They just completed over 100 shows on the “SCC Solo Tour.” When Jeremy isn’t on the road, he is working as Project Manager and Director of Content at Peach and Pine Home, the interior design firm he and his wife, Chandler, own and operate. Their newest project is a podcast called “Love Where You Live,” a podcast about all-things interior design and home renovation. Golf is his favorite hobby, and his ideal afternoon includes a round of golf on a mostly sunny, 65 degree day and hanging out with his wife and close friends.

This week I am talking with my friend and co-writer Hope Thal who lives in L.A.  She is a great film composer who has worked on multiple indie projects and is now on staff at Joy Music House which offers music preparation, orchestrating, and everything else that goes into creating a great score. Hope is also currently working behind the scenes on a top secret t.v. show for Dreamworks. We met when she was a guest speaker for a course I was taking and I reached out to her about writing together for tv and film projects. Thankfully she said yes and now we get to talk about her journey that has led her to this moment.  I know you will be encouraged by her story!

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Make sure you’re always doing something that you like and that you’re good at when you’re trying to become a professional musician.

*It helps to be able to say I did this ten episode web series, people don’t even have to see it to already feel like “Oh because you’re doing something, I feel that if somebody hired you then there’s more hope to hire you than if I hadn’t done anything."

*Relationships are a skill you have to develop.

*Having boldness and a tasteful manner is very important.

*It says a lot when you’re just willing to put yourself out there.

*Be persistent.

*It’s okay to keep asking when things are getting rescheduled, they’re not trying to avoid you.

*Check out Catch The Moon Music.

*Never say "no." You’ll figure it out as you go.

“Spotting Session” - Sitting with the executive producer to watch the show and talk about the score. When is the music in and out, deciding if the temp music works or if it needs to replaced.

*My job is to take notes during the session and make the time code and make sure I’ve gotten everything they’ve talked about so that composers can just engage with the director or executive producer without having to write anything down.

*After the composers create the music, I add all the music into Logic and do a Quicktime movie for pass number one, then send it over for review, get notes and keep going back and forth until it’s where they want it.

*Occasionally I get to be the one doing the music editing.

*I do all the printing of the stems which is taking the entire episode and separating all the tracks for the mixing stage.

*I create lead sheets for the music which is writing out the melody line and chord chart from the audio.

*What I’m doing now will produce fruit later if I’m just patient and be the best that I can at everything I’m doing.

*What is some practical advice for scoring or composing or admin work?

*Get involved in the community of whatever you are doing.

*Most work has been through word of mouth, relationships, school, AWFC, Society of Composers and Lyricists.

*The work you’re doing may not pay bills now, but it will lead to opportunities in the future. Small steps.

*It takes an incredible amount of patience and trust that those are the results you’re going to get.

*Your talent is important but you have to put time and energy into making sure people know you exist.

*Patience and persistence!

*It takes time to build that career.

H.B. Thal website

Hope Bartimioli Thal (H.B. Thal) is a composer, songwriter and vocalist based out of Los Angeles. She studied classical voice at Grand Canyon University in Arizona before moving to LA to study Film Scoring at UCLA Extension. Since graduating in 2017 she has been writing on various independent projects including 2018 LA Live Festival Best Short film winner: Cat’s Outta the Bag.

She is a composer at Joy Music House, a score production company started by composer Catherine Joy which offers services including music preparation, orchestrating, and everything else that goes into creating a great score. In March, 2019 H.B. released a self titled 4 song EP on all platforms showcasing her skills as a songwriter as well as joining the administrative team of The AWFC (The Alliance for Women Film Composers), as the Director of Communications.

Hope has a passion for story telling through score and songwriting. Whether it is assisting other composers or working with filmmakers she loves to collaborate and be a part of bringing stories to life.

This week I'm talking with music supervisor, composer and drummer Eric Kalver.  Eric is in L.A. and stays extremely busy currently working for the video game publisher Activision. When he's not finding cool songs to put into video games, he is either composing music or playing drums in a bunch of different bands around L.A. He took time out to talk with me about his journey from being a magician's assistant (yes, you read that correctly) to being one of the top music supervisors in L.A.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Eric grew up in a family of magicians.

*Check out The Amazing Eric and Bozo on You Tube.

*I went to Berklee School of Music for drumming and began taking arranging classes.

*I realized by doing arranging that would help me stick out of the crowd.

*A “lead sheet” is a music chart that is condensed so that it’s easy to read and on just a page or two so the whole band can read off the same sheet.

*I moved to L.A. sooner than I planned because people told me that the jobs would be gone if I waited.

*My first job in L.A. came because my father knew someone who produced the Daytime Emmy Awards and got me a job as a production assistant, moving chairs and sets and getting people where they needed to be.

*That got me work doing other entertainments jobs through the same company for about 3 months while I looked for music jobs.

*I was able to email and connect with a person from Berklee who lived in L.A. and eventually got me work as a copyist.

“Copyist work” has to do with the sheet music that is being played by an orchestra or player.

*I would take the master score the orchestrator was working with and I would extract the parts from the master score using a computer program called Finale.

*In Finale I would go into each instrument part and “clean it up" once it was extracted from the main score.

“Clean it up” meaning the spacing of the notes, making sure the notes make sense when you read them, cleaning up the dynamics, making sure things aren’t all over the place.

*A “copyist” is like a proof reader for a book editor.

*Having a network of like minded people who do the same kind of work as you who, if you get along with them and they trust your work ethic, then you can be recommended for jobs in the future.

*When networking, instead of offering my card to someone, it’s best if I get a person’s business card so they are the top of my mind and I can follow up with them because I may not be on the top of their mind.

*It’s better not to talk about the thing you want to network about until the other person brings it up.

*It’s all about “the hang.”

*Because of my Berklee connections I found a composer looking for an assistant. I got hired by Brian Tyler who worked on the Fast and Furious movies and Avengers: Age of Ultron.

*I didn’t study composing in college but I needed a job and was willing to learn and since Hollywood is a film scoring town, I applied for the job and I got it.

*When you’re an assistant to a composer, it’s not necessarily a job where you’re doing music the whole time.

*My job was more of an administrative job when I started. I was picking up laundry and lunch and running errands. That’s part of the job. They don’t tell you in school how to arrange the food and do hospitality, how to treat clients who are coming into the studio, etc.

*Attention to detail is important.

*Taking care of these details can prove to your boss that you can handle bigger tasks later on.

*Now, if I’m hiring a musician and they aren’t easy to hang out with it’s just not going to work.

*I got to do some orchestrating on the movies Fast Five and Skyline.

*As an orchestrator I was taking instrument parts and deciding how to split up chords that the composer created with the instrument.

*I eventually moved on and got a job at Alfred Music Publishing which is one of the main music education sheet music publishers.

*I got that job because of another connection from Berklee.

*I was the Choral Production Editor which meant I would take sheet music and proof read it for grammatical and musical errors.

*It’s another administrative job. I was helping organize the releases of choral music and helping create the covers with InDesign and editing the text.

*Through building relationships with the editors at Alfred Music Publishing and them learning what I went to school for, I got some percussion ensemble arrangements published through Alfred for Star Wars music.

*I did a Star Wars Themes Medley and Star Wars Cantina band for xylophone, marimbas, drums, bass, bells, mallets, etc.

*Then I learned about music supervision and applied to jobs and got hired as a music coordinator for a one stop shop.

* “One Stop Shop” means the company represents both “the master recording” and “the publishing” of a song. So the clearance process is very easy where I just reach out to one company who can approve both sides and it’s a relatively fast clearance process.

*I got that job at Heavy Hitters Music, not because of my musical background but from my administrative background at Alfred Music Publishing and for film composers doing copyist work and orchestrating.

*When I first started working for Heavy Hitters I was pitching music for the library to music supervisors, doing searches, guiding the company’s writers to help them know what we needed written.

*I then found a job at Activision through a referral. Now I was on the choosing side where before I was on the pitching side.

*Now I’m looking at budgets and terms, researching songs to find out where the ownership splits are.

*It’s like detective work.

*I then worked at Music and Strategy which is a company this is hired by ad agencies or specific brands as a hired music department to help with song clearance, creative ideas, negotiations, etc.

*I was working with big ad agencies creatively as well as clearance.

*Ad agency work is around the clock.

*I recently went back to Activision as a music supervisor and now I handle the music for the trailers, in game uses, internal uses, anything music related for the company.

*The music supervisor is the gate keeper to get your music in the door at a company but is not the final say. There are multiple people like directors and producers, etc. above me that have to like the music too.

*When you send an email to people like me you have to keep it short and sweet. Get to the point and tell me what you do. We are busy and don’t have time to read long emails.

*If you’re going to pitch music, you need to understand what the product is.

*What are some tips and advice for getting your foot in the door in the types of jobs you’ve had?

*Getting administrative skills down is very important to become a music coordinator. Knowing how to use Microsoft Word, Excel, knowing how to write an email and spell words correctly.

*You have to be able to do these things clearly because you’re writing to people requesting music rights, etc. so you have to be organized and have templates and spreadsheets with the status of where you are in the process.

*It comes back to networking and being a valid person that someone will vouch for you to get into these positions.

*When you’re trying to get into the music industry, you will have to do jobs that are not music related and that’s okay.

*It takes time. It’s hard work and stuff you didn’t expect to do but it all means something and can lead to something in the future

*www.erickalver.com

Raised by a family of magicians (seriously), Eric already had stage, TV, and radio experience by age 5. At age 11, the discovery of The Beatles and the movie "That Thing You Do" inspired him to become a drummer. 20 years later, he still gets to live the dream of working in music.

Eric wears multiple hats in the industry. He's the Music Supervisor at Activision Blizzard, working on games such as Call of Duty, Overwatch, Spyro, and Guitar Hero. He is a published arranger, a composer, and a regularly gigging drummer playing in multiple groups that perform all around the Los Angeles area.

You can regularly see Eric playing drums for Baby Wants Candy at Upright Citizens Brigade, weddings and corporate events with Business Time Entertainment, live band karaoke with The Moon Units,, and on the Netflix comedy special, Todd Glass: Act Happy.

I recently spent time with my friend and songwriting partner Mark Irwin.  Mark is a hit country music songwriter in Nashville. He co-wrote Alan Jackson’s Here In The Real World which was nominated twice for Song of the Year by he Country Music Association. Mark also wrote the hit song Highway Don’t Care for Tim McGraw featuring Taylor Swift and Keith Urban among many others. Mark has been signed to multiple publishing deals throughout his songwriting career. Today we are talking about how to network and make a name for yourself and how to make connections as a songwriter in a music town.  We also talk about music publishers and the process of getting your foot in the door to get your songs heard so you can land a publishing deal if that is what you are looking for.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

Mark Irwin - Show Notes

Networked by getting a job in a music venue and building relationships.

I knew the songwriting business was in Nashville so I packed up and moved here.

NSAI - Nashville Songwriter's Association International. They help connect songwriters with people in the industry.

Networking and going to writer's shows and meeting people who are doing what you're doing is important.

It takes time of focusing and writing everyday to build up the writing muscle.

This is a relationship driven business. You find out about a lot of opportunities by building relationships with people.

People blow opportunities and relationships because of ego or arrogance

The process of connecting with a publisher:

Some people say take your best 2 or 3 songs and make elaborate demos. I think if you make a really good clean guitar or piano / vocal, then the song will sell itself. Then call places on your own. Find publishers willing to listen to outside (unsolicited) songs. Publishers will connect you with other writers and artists to write with and that helps build connections and is how I met Alan Jackson and co- wrote his first hit song "Here In The Real World." It takes a while to build this up, it's not overnight.

You still have to work a job even if you get signed to a publisher at least for a while.

Discipline yourself to make sure you are writing everyday and know why you moved to town to do music.

I was still working when my first hit single was out.

What's the purpose of moving from one publisher to another?

Some publishers don't have the kind of money that is needed to support a writer where they can stop working a normal job. Having a song that is a hit helps open doors to meet with other publishers. Bigger publishers can sometimes pay a draw against future royalties that you can live on while you write for that publisher.

When the person who signs you to a deal leaves and new people take over and you don't have a cut for a while then you get dropped from the roster. It's still a business.

Usually when you're at a publisher and you have a decent relationship with them, you're going to stay as long as you can because it's hard to talk away from a catalog (Collection of songs you've written for the publisher). Usually if you leave a publisher it's because you got dropped.

How long are you typically contracted to be with a publisher?

They can be different but my first one was 18 months, then the company has the option to pick you up for another year or dropping you. Usually after that it's every year. They look at what they are paying you and any money coming in and decide if they want to keep going.

How many songs do you have to write per year?

Average is 12 songs by yourself or 24 if it's a 2 way co-write. But if your doing it every day you're going to write more than that.

A publisher will usually give you 2 or 2 1/2 years to get something going.

These days it's more writing with artists. It's harder to get outside songs cut meaning a song that the artist hasn't written. If you're aligned with an artist before they sign a deal you can get a publishing deal because you are writing with them when they sign a record deal.

Putting a song "on hold" means an artist is seriously considering recording it and they ask you not to pitch it to anyone else during that time.

What do you tell new songwriters that are coming into town trying to get their feet wet?

Coming into town cold is a tough hill to climb but there's a lot of opportunities and people here willing to steer you. NSAI is a great organization for new artists. They set up meetings to play your songs for publishers. Join a (PRO) Performing Rights Organization - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC and meet songwriters at workshops, etc.

Don't have a meeting with a publisher and present yourself until you have your best. You only have one chance to make a first impression. It really help if you have someone recommend you to get connected with a publisher.

Someone at ASCAP made a couple of calls on my (Mark’s) behalf years ago and got me in to meet a publisher and I got a publishing deal because of that.

There are a lot of ways to find champions in this town. Again it's about relationships.

Taking meetings with a PRO helps and going to writer's rounds and try to get up there and play as much as possible and if you see somebody doing something that really gets to you, try to start up a relationship and ask about writing.

No one's going to knock on your door and ask if you want to be a hit songwriter. You have to go out and make it happen. You have to be proactive.

There are still opportunities and everyone wants to discover the next great songwriter.

What happens to your song catalog when you leave one publisher and go to a new one?

I still have the option to pitch the songs and the old publisher can as well. Or, if you can negotiate to own a portion of your publishing, then you can sell off you portion.

When first starting out you will not get to co-own your publishing. They pay you a monthly draw to live on and the way you get paid if you have a single is through the PRO for performance (radio, tv, etc.) There is also mechanical (sales). Usually a publisher will re coup that draw through the mechanical (sales) and leave your PRO alone. At that point they own 100% of your publishing and you own 100% of your writer's share. So you split it 50/50.

If you have hits and are doing well you can renegotiate and sign a new deal. You have the clout to ask for a co-pub deal, not just your writer's share. That has real value and another publisher will want to purchase that from you.

It was 22 years between my (Mark’s) first number one and my second number one song.Then it was 5 weeks between my second and my third.

It's in a publisher's best interests to keep pitching your catalog even if you're gone. But when they sign a new writer, that is their focus and it's hard to look back even if they're sitting on a great catalog of songs.

You can hire an independent song plugger to pitch your songs for you and you pay them a percentage of your share of the song or you can pay them out of pocket.

I (Mark) would rather give them a percentage (maybe 10% of the publishing and a cash bonus for every song you get cut.)

The song plugger might ask for an upfront draw to go out an pitch on your behalf. Each one is different but you can negotiate the deal, especially if they really believe in your songs.

Even if you're an independent writer and don't have a publishing deal and you own your publishing, you can hire somebody to pitch it. But you do need to register with a PRO (BMI, ASCAP or SESAC) because they are the ones collecting the money for you if you have a single out or on tv or performing live, etc.

These days it's hard to get an outside song cut. There are a few writers still doing it but most of what you're hearing on country radio, the artist or the producer is connected to the song in some way.

Sony Music Publishing has the clout to hook me up with young artists who are either signed to labels or they believe will be signed and trying to develop those relationships.

Large publishers have more access to artists that are on a label than some smaller publishers do.

Advice for writers:

Don't get discouraged.

Write and much as you can.

The more you write, the better you get at it.

Find an hour a day to write. Even to come up with a couple of lines.

Wait until you really feel like you have something special before you take a meeting, especially with a publisher.

You only have one chance to make a first impression.

Don't just pitch one song. Anybody can get lucky with one song.

For someone just starting out, you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on elaborate demos. A clean guitar/vocal or piano/vocal is enough if you can perform it well.

If you write more pop music where the track has to do with the feel, that's different.

Listen and try to meet as many people possible who are writing. Inspiration comes from being impressed with somebody else's work.

Get someone who is a great singer who is going to sell the song to record your demo and sound like the genre you’re in.

As long the melody and lyric can be heard, I think that's the most important part.

Don't be afraid to ask people if they want to write or if you can come in and play them songs because if you want to get things out of this world, you have to ask for them.

No one’s going to give it to you. You have to ask.

Don't be shy, make your presence known.

I sat down with my friend Elizabeth Chan who is a professional touring/session drummer and road manager. She has played for some of the biggest names in country and Christian music including: Carrie Underwood, Keith Urban, Lauren Daigle and Moriah Peters. On this weeks episode we spend time talking about how Elizabeth found her way to Nashville and the immediate doors that opened which allowed her to quickly work her way into position as an in-demand drummer and tour manager on the road.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

Talking Points:

*I sent a bunch of emails to different management companies I had contacts with from years ago. One manager actually needed a drummer for an artist. He said most emails get deleted automatically, but he felt like he should open the email.

*It was God’s grace that pulled all of that together.

*First artist to play for was CCM artist Moriah Peters at Disney World.

*The show at Disney had industry people there that I connected with.

*Blaine Barcus was Moriah’s A&R person and we connected and built a relationship and I got to know him and his wife. I wanted to learn more about his story, not for business.

*Be willing to be curious about people’s lives and know them for who they are, not what they do.

*That can lead to other opportunities because you add value to the person.

*Building relationships is key.

*There are amazing musicians everywhere, but the one thing that makes us all different is the character you bring to the gig.

*You spend most of your time with people on the road more than on the stage.

*Keep yourself healthy.

*If you’re not easy to work with or be around, no one wants to be with you.

*Likability is more important than talent.

*Create an outlet for working with something you believe in.

*Don’t sign up for something you don’t believe in.

*Don’t create a life where you only go 50%.

*How did you get gigs after playing for Mariah Peters?  A person connected to an artist I was playing for would see me play and reach out and it would lead from one thing to another.

*A lot of times you get called for one show but then it leads to more work with that artist.

*How did you land a gig with Carrie Underwood on the CMA awards? I was filling in playing at a church along with a keys player who ended up playing for Carrie Underwood. 3 or 4 years later Carrie’s music director called me with a reference from Carrie’s keyboard player to play the CMA awards.

*Don’t fake it. Just show up as your authentic self.

*When I have time off, I fill up my time just listening to the music genre I am working in to be more familiar with it.

*Be very intentional at breaking a part grooves to learn how different genres work.

Elizabeth Chan is a touring and session drummer from New York City, currently based in Nashville, TN. She has worked with a variety of artists, including seven-time GRAMMY Award winner Carrie Underwood, country music legend Darius Rucker (of Hootie and The Blowfish), multi-platinum artist Keith Urban, powerhouse country trio Lady Antebellum, The Voice Australia finalist Ben Hazlewood, Billboard AC/CHR chart topper Hollyn, and 2014 GMA Dove Award “New Artist of the Year” Ellie Holcomb. Whether playing to anthemic rock and country melodies or accompanying folk and pop ballads, one this is consistently evident: There is never a lack of passion in what Elizabeth does.

Music has long been a part of Elizabeth Chan’s life. Growing up in Brooklyn, New York, Elizabeth became highly involved in the rich local music scene of New York City. Under the direction of drum teachers Paul Two and Phil Bloom, Elizabeth began diving into genres from rock to R&B, jazz to hip hop, and gospel to latin.

By the age of 17, Elizabeth was offered a full-tuition music scholarship to attend Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, and travel as a drummer with their touring music teams. By the end of her college career, Elizabeth had graduated summa cum laude, played more than 270 shows across the United States, participated in 7 tours, garnered multiple endorsements and worked with a number of notable artists and songwriters.

Elizabeth now resides in Nashville, TN. where she serves as a touring/session musician and tour manager for numerous pop, country and CCM acts.

Artists Elizabeth has worked with: Carrie Underwood, Darius Rucker, Keith Urban, Lady Antebellum, Eric Church, Hollyn, Lauren Daigle, Mandisa, Rachel Wammack, Sara Groves, Ellie Holcomb, Christy Nockels, Love & The Outcome, Ben Hazlewood, Sandra McCracken, JJ Heller, Jonathan Thulin, Moriah Peters, Lindsay McCaul, Charles Billingsley (of NewSong), Elias Dummer (of The City Harmonic), Jason Germain (of Downhere), Hannah Kerr.

This is part 2 of my interview with session/touring drummer and tour manager Elizabeth Chan.  This week we continue our conversation about being a professional drummer and also focus more on being a road manager for different artist and what it takes to be success in that role.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

Talking Points:

*Mariah Peters’ road manager moved on and her management asked me to step in an take over.

*I had to learn what a road manager did by watching her road manager for 4 months.

*What does a road manager do? It begins about 4-6 weeks out by reaching out to the promotor and working through details for the show - backline gear, hotel, travel, ground transportation, etc. All of this needs to worked out so when the band gets to the gig it is all sorted out.

*Being the drummer and the road manager, the advancing of the show is even more important.

*“Advancing a show” - After the show is booked, having all the travel sorted, having the schedule for the show, making sure dressing rooms are set, etc.

*It’s important to stay in touch with promoters and management when travel issues come up and make sure everyone is in communication.

*The job of tour manager is in direct partnership with artist management.

*I want to have a great relationship with the managers just as much as with the artists because I’m making decisive calls with them.

*When a problem arises on the road, you have about 30 minutes to come up with a solution.

*To be a tour manager you have to have: good communication skills, a good personality, be able to problem solve and troubleshoot on the spot, good relationships.

*As a musician, know your stuff.

*Some artists Elizabeth has tour managed: Ellie Holcomb, Hollyn, Abby Anderson.

*Know when to set limits and boundaries.

*Advice for Drummers and tour managers:

*Get to a music city where the work is. You have to be able to get to a call.

*You have to be smart with finances.

*Chase down the right fit for getting an income while also creating flexibility for yourself.

*As your income increases, allow your savings to exponentially increase.

*As a musician work is not steady so put yourself on a salary by saving your money.

*Get out of debt.

*Dave Ramsey's book The Total Money Makeover

*It’s important to evaluate when it’s time to let go of extra work even within music so you can focus on what you really want.

*Take time for the things you love.

Elizabeth’s contact for people wanting a drummer or road manager: www.echanmusic.com or email info@echanmusic.com

Elizabeth Chan on facebook and instagram

Some of these links are affiliate links. This means the company we link to may pay us a few pennies for sending you to them. We only link to products we truly recommend.

Elizabeth Chan is a touring and session drummer from New York City, based in Nashville, 

Tennessee. She has worked with a variety of artists, including seven-time GRAMMY Award winner Carrie Underwood, country music legend Darius Rucker (of Hootie & The Blowfish), multi-platinum artist Keith Urban, powerhouse country trio Lady Antebellum, The Voice Australia finalist Ben Hazlewood, Billboard AC/CHR chart topper Hollyn, and 2014 GMA Dove Award "New Artist of the Year" Ellie Holcomb. Whether playing to anthemic rock and country melodies or accompanying folk and pop ballads, one thing is consistently evident: There is never a lack of passion in what Elizabeth does.

Music has long been a part of Elizabeth's life. Growing up in Brooklyn, New York, Elizabeth became highly involved in the rich local music scene of New York City. Under the direction of drum teachers Paul Tso and Phil Bloom, Elizabeth began diving into genres from rock to R&B, jazz to hip hop, and gospel to latin.

By the age of 17, Elizabeth was offered a full-tuition music scholarship to attend Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, and travel as a drummer with their touring music teams. By the end of her college career, Elizabeth had graduated summa cum laude, played more than 270 shows across the United States, participated in 7 tours, garnered multiple endorsements, and worked with a number of notable artists and songwriters.

Elizabeth now resides in Nashville, Tennessee, where she serves as a touring/session musician and tour manager for numerous pop, country, and CCM acts. For further information, please email info@echanmusic.com.

I recently met up with my friend Jared DePasquale who is a phenomenal at scoring, arranging and orchestrating music for audio dramas and tv productions.  He has won multiple awards for his work and was kind enough to talk with me about his musical journey and give insight for you to put into practice if you want to create music for media.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*John Williams who scored Star Wars and Indiana Jones made me fall in love with music.

*Determination beats talent any day of the week.

*I wanted to tell a story through music.

*Tenacity and ability to take risks allowed me to transition from college into the real world more than talent did.

*I applied for grants for USC Film School but missed the deadline. The person I talked with said he had a friend doing what I wanted to do and connected me with composer Joseph LoDuca. He hired me to do some work to reprogram a synthesizer. I worked hard and he kept giving me more responsibility until it turned into a full time assistant job.

*Most of the time relationships are going to be what get you the work.

*I worked on the tv show Hercules: The legendary Journeys assisting Joe.

*A one hour tv show will include about 30 minutes of score and you have a week at most to get it done and move on to the next episode for 22 episodes.

*I was a jack of all trades for him on that show. I did temp tracks, programming, played on some sessions, I helped do some orchestration, etc.

*When you are an assistant or apprentice to an orchestrator, you have to learn how to think like that person and what their tendencies are.

*I also worked on a lot of commercials. The boss sets the tone and is guiding you the whole way and you execute it and he will give you changes to make until it’s where he wants it.

*For commercials you usually only get a few hours to create something and turn it in.

*You have to learn to go with your instinct and choose a direction and go with it.

*The biggest drawback of working for another composer is that it’s hard to find your own voice.

*Finding your own voice is a life long journey.

*I now score audio dramas.

* I hired an agent to pitch my demo reel and it took about 2 years to get work after I left working for Joe.

*My first composer job on my own was scoring an indie horror film and I had 3 weeks to complete it.

*They liked my work and I kept getting hired to do those kinds of films.

*My agent pitched me to do work on audio dramas for Focus On The Family.

*I got hired to work on a project and I was able to conduct an orchestra and have since worked on lots of audio dramas for Focus On The Family and other companies.

*A 3 hour score for Robin Hood took 6 months to write.

*What is the difference between an audio drama and a book on tape?

*An audio drama is a fully emersive story like a movie without the visual. It’s professional actors, sound design, music and production crew.

*You can stream them through sites like Audible.

*Books on tape essentially use canned music that hit transition points from chapter to chapter.

*Audio dramas that are 30 minutes will have 15 minutes of custom score.

*The old style of scoring is called “The Light Motif” which is: Characters have themes. It’s thematic driven.

*Modern scores are very “anti-theme.” Very Static, atmospheric and vibey.

*People love a melody.

*Audio dramas are looking for big time melodies because characters have melodies.

*Not having a visual has made me better as a composer because it has made me think of what the character is thinking about and his motivation. Or what it means when there is a mountain in front of you and you have to make it feel huge because even though you can’t see it, you can feel it.

*There’s no such thing as a bad day making music.

*I don’t give the word “inspiration” a lot of validity.

*If you’re going to write music for a client with a deadline, you have to learn how to write music.

*It’s a balance of discipline and understanding your craft and techniques and doing all the hard work that will internalize and come out.

*I wrote 50 themes for Robin Hood before it got approved.

*If you don’t feel inspired or don’t feel like writing music, go write music.

*Keep at it and you will find what you are trying create.

*It’s not glamorous and it’s hard work, but it is fun.

*You’ll never get there if you don’t do the hard work.

*Advice for getting into scoring :

*If you’re going to create music for any kind of media, love the story telling process more than you love music.

*They are hiring you to understand the story, go deep and emote.

*You have to love working with people.

*Music for media is a collaborative process.

*Starting out as a new composer you might have to work for free on low level entry projects with student film makers.

*Connect with your peers that are trying to do their first projects and get experience. That can lead to more work down the road.

*Build relationships.

*It’s a slow build.

*There is always something to learn.

*What’s the difference between composing and ghost writing?

*Shows require a lot of music in a short period of time. The composer will have a team helping create music but typically only the composer is getting credit for the work, so the other people are called ghost writers.

*They do not get credit for making the music and they don’t get paid the same as the composer. You’re basically an independent contractor that is getting paid to do work for hire. You’re signing away all your rights to the music so you get paid one time to create it but no back end royalties.

*Jared’s website is www.jareddepasquale.com

*Jared’s You Tube Channel

Jared is a storyteller.  Music is his language.

For over twenty five years Jared has composed the musical scores for some of Western culture’s most celebrated stories and iconic characters. The recipient of numerous awards and critical acclaim, his work is widely recognized for its ability to musically capture complex characters amidst stories that are rich in texture and meaning.

Jared has contributed music to over a thousand different projects including scores to The Legends of Robin Hood (Gwilym Lee of Bohemian Rhapsody), The Secret Garden (Dame Joan Plowright of Driving Miss Daisy),  Little Women (Gemma Jones from the Harry Potter series), Les Miserables (Brian Blessed of Star Wars Episode 1), The Trials of Saint Patrick (John Rhys-Davies of Lord of the Rings), Ode to Saint Cecilia (Hayley Atwell of The Avengers series), and Brother Francis (Owen Teale of Game of Thrones).

Early in his career, Jared apprenticed under Emmy and ASCAP Award winning composer Joseph LoDuca. With LoDuca, Jared learned the business of composing for A-list projects including the globally syndicated television shows Xena: The Warrior Princess and Hercules: The Legendary Journeys.  Immediately following his apprenticeship, Jared was recognized by Music from the Movies as one of the three most promising and interesting talents among film composers today. He has won or been nominated for multiple awards over the years for his contribution to audio dramas.

2018: The Adventum, Volume 1, Wise King Media: WON for “Best Score for an Audio Drama” Audio Theatre Central Seneca Awards 2018: David & Absalom: Adventures in Odyssey, Focus on the Family: Nominated for “Best Score for an Audio Drama” Audio Theatre Central Seneca Awards 2018: Operation Mosul: The Brinkman Adventures, Season 7, Beachglass Ministries: Nominated for “Best Score for an Audio Drama” Audio Theatre Central Seneca Awards 2017: The Trials of Saint Patrick, AIR Theater: WON for “Best Score for an Audio Drama” Audio Theatre Central Seneca Awards 2017: Brother Francis, The Barefoot Saint of Assisi, AIR Theater: WON for “Audio Drama of the Year” by the Audio Publisher’s Association (Audie Awards) 2017: The Trials of Saint Patrick, AIR Theater: Nominated for “Audio Drama of the Year / Historical Non-Fiction” Category by the Audio Publisher’s Association (Audie Awards) 2017: Les Miserables, Focus on the Family: Placed in the Top 5 for “Best Score, New Archival (Digital) Release” by REEL MUSIC 2016: Brother Francis, The Barefoot Saint of Assisi, AIR Theater: WON, “Best Score for an Audio Drama” by Audio Theatre Central 2015: The Hiding Place, Focus on the Family: WON, “Best Score – Other Media” by REEL MUSIC. 2006: At the Back of the North Wind, Focus on the Family: WON, “Achievement in Production” by the Audio Publisher’s Association (Audie Awards). This award encompasses music score, sound design, and sound mixing 2006: The Hiding Place, Focus on the Family: Nominated for “Audio Drama of the Year” by the Audio Publisher’s Association (Audie Awards) 2006: The Hiding Place, Focus on the Family: Nominated for “Achievement in Production” by the Audio Publisher’s Association (Audie Awards) 2005: Little Women, Focus on the Family: Nominated for “Achievement in Production” by the Audio Publisher’s Association (Audie Awards)

I met Doug DeAngelis at a Music Supervision event in Nashville recently and was intrigued because he has been a pioneer in what we know as dance, pop and rock music. His unique work as a music director and supervisor for award shows got my attention and I knew I wanted him on the show. In part 1 of our conversation Doug and I discuss his time producing the biggest names in pop music, being a composer for hit television shows and what it takes to be a music director for live t.v.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I programmed analog synthesizers in the early days before MIDI and went to Berklee College of Music to study music synthesis.

*I saw music in colors and textures and layers.

*Enthusiasm is the single best ingredient in professional musicianship. Nothing beats enthusiasm.

*I started working at Syncro Sound studios owned by The Cars.

*It had one of the first MIDI rooms in the country and I worked programming.

*My first big project to work on was the debut album of Nine Inch Nails.

*Then went on tour with the band Inner City, one of the first pop/house (Detroit Techno/Club) music bands.

*Doug is a pioneer in Dance/Club music.

*Moved to New York to work for David Franken McMurphy and that was my start with working on all the big artists in pop music.

*When re-mixing an album, the record label picks the DJ and the DJ picks the producer to do the re-mix.

*Moved to L.A. to work on more records and ended up working in T.V. by accident. I got a call to be the music director for a live talent show called Next Big Star with Ed McMahon, a precursor to American Idol. I ended up becoming the music supervisor as well not knowing what that even meant.

*What does “clearing a song” mean for use on t.v. and film? It means identifying who the rights holders are for both the physical recording (the master) and the copyright (the publishing). Learning what cost is for all the different types of usages in t.v. or film. Learning how to do the paperwork and going out and getting the rights to license the songs to be used and have them signed off on before the show airs.

*Don’t say no to an opportunity. Say yes! Figure it out and do it.

*If you don’t take the opportunity when it comes your way, there are hundreds people waiting to take it from you.

*You have to be more enthusiastic than ALL the people you’re working with. More than your bosses, the contestants, the artists your producing music for, the songwriters you’re cutting demos for. That’s what people need. That’s the job.

*When you are making music for t.v. where you are on the clock, sometimes you are working for hours on a song and find out you can’t clear the rights to use it and you have to scrap it and start over knowing you have a lot more songs still do. Even then you have to stay enthusiastic. That’s the job.

*Don’t leave a project until you know you have made your client happy based off what you know you are capable of accomplishing.

*If you don’t impose your talent level on the client, you’re not finished yet. That’s enthusiasm.

*Elevate everyone around you.

*People who are great take everybody with them.

*If you want to work professionally as a musician, producer, songwriter, composer, music supervisor, etc. , make “that’s great” the base line for what you do and go beyond that until the client says “that’s the greatest thing I’ve ever heard.”

*Big things are easy to get right. It’s the little things that matter.

*How did you transition from Music Directing on live t.v. shows and music supervising to be a composer for t.v. shows?

*After multiple t.v. talent shows I produced a record for the group Love and Rockets and the singer and I started making music together that landed on some projects. We signed with CAA talent agency and pitched our reel to producer Michael Mann and landed the job scoring Robbery Homicide. That was my first job scoring a t.v. show.

*Why sign with an agency like CAA? my partner Kevin already had a connection with them because of his band Love and Rockets and we had an advantage of getting our music heard.

*When a new show is coming out, the studios will go to the big agents and say so and so has a new show and he is looking for a certain kind of music. Then everybody sends in their reels and the producer picks what they like.

*t.v producers and music supervisors, etc. go to licensing agencies and talent agencies for music and composers because they can vet you and your work to make sure your music is good and you can handle the pressure of the schedule, the pace, etc. which is very taxing.

*Scoring a drama is a 6 or 7 day turnaround which means 3 or 4 days to write the score because you have to have time for the producers and directors to hear it and make notes, then you revise the score and have it to stage the day before they mix the show.

*All of that is for about 35 minutes of score in an 60 minute show.

*What does a 24 hour day look like when you are scoring a show?

*Realistically you work 18-19 hours a day and sleep 5-6 hours.

* “Spot the episode” - meaning the composer, music supervisor, editor, director and the sound effects group meet together to watch a cut of the episode and you walk through it beat by beat, top to bottom of the showing making notes of what should be score, where there should be a song, where they want only sound design, end score, etc.

*Then you have to remember what you talked about and create score and songs around that because there are no sound effects, etc. actually there yet.

*When you’re scoring, understand that the better the film, the better your experience getting started at scoring is going to be.

*It’s very hard to score to picture that is not good. Film, dialogue, story, cinematography, etc. make everything roll easier.

*Music is all about you. When you’re scoring music for picture, it’s not about you anymore.

*You always have to keep in mind that the episode started as a script about a year and a half ago going through a bunch or re-writes and back and forth with the studio getting rejections. Then they shot it and re-shot it because the acting wasn’t great, etc.

*By the time it gets to you, It is what they want. So you have to be aware of that and score music that is subservient to the dialogue and the story that’s being told and it has to move with it.

*The real job of a composer is to make each emotional turn and twist moment by moment with the dialogue and to tell the stories that the director is having a hard time telling.

*You have to guide the audience to things that are important and away from things that are important with a score.

*You’re also fixing things that aren’t working in the picture. Bad acting, a script that someone is unhappy with, or even subtle things like a beat is too long, etc.

*You’re also fixing things as a music supervisor. The job is not just to polish something that was already great.

*A lot of times a scene is over done and you need to downplay with the score.

*You learn the banter between the executive producers and what they like and dislike so you can know how to fix problems in a scene with a score.

*Comedy is the hardest genre to put music to.

*The craft of a sitcom is to move from one scene that has a joke to a new scene in 3-5 seconds with a girl crying and getting from a chord that feels great with the joke to a heartbreak in two chords and it not feel horrible.

*Every genre is a different craft.

Check out Doug's website

Doug DeAngelis is a composer/producer/musical director and music supervisor. He began his professional career at age 18 at SyncroSound Recording Studio in Boston while attending Berklee College of Music for music synthesis.

At age nineteen, he recorded the Nine Inch Nails hit “Head Like A Hole” with Trent Reznor and world-renowned producer Flood. In 1989, DeAngelis left Boston on a world tour with the Detroit Techno crossover dance artist Inner City. After the tour, he moved to New York City where he amassed over 300 album & remix credits including 31 #1 Billboard Chart singles. Album credits include New Order, Michael Jackson, Queen Latifa, Chaka Khan, Love and Rockets, Alicia Keys, and No Doubt.

Doug's career then shifted to Los Angeles where his music was embraced by Hollywood producer Michael Mann as the score for his CBS crime drama series Robbery Homicide Division.  His music has since appeared in over 100 television shows including CSI, Baby Daddy, The Evidence, The Nine Lives Of Chloe King, Bones, Alias, Cold Case, CSI Miami, ER, as well as dozens of reality television programs. He has written main title themes for Chelsea Lately, CNN Heroes, E! True Hollywood Stories Investigates, The NASCAR franchise, and co-written the main title songs to the film Blades Of Glory starring Will Ferrell, and The American Country Awards.

Recently, Doug won a BMI Music Award for his underscore to the FOX series 'Lie To Me', and composed the score for an Academy Award nominated feature documentary film entitled 'The Garden'.    Outside of the studio, Doug is the Conference Chair and Co-Founder of A3E, The Advanced Audio & Applications Exchange. A3E is a leading industry resource dedicated to the future of new music technologies. A3E is an educational partner to NAMM, The National Association Of Music Merchants. 

This week I continue my conversation with hit producer, composer and music supervisor Doug DeAngelis. In part 2 of our interview we focus on working as a music director and supervisor for award shows such as The Billboard Music Awards and Teen Choice Awards. We also talk about what it takes to be a music supervisor for t.v. shows, the relationship a supervisor should have with an artist as well as the importance of knowing the music editor for a series. Plus, practical steps you can take to get into this line of work in the music industry.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I do music supervision and music direction at the same time for award shows.

*How did you get into working on award shows? I did talent performance shows and along the way I got called to work on a sci-fi award show for Spike T.V. then she started calling me to do Teen Choice Awards and shows like that and people get to know you and start calling you for others.

*It takes about 2 months to put an award show.

*A “Dub Stage” is where you mix a t.v. show.

*Don Mischer Productions does award shows.

*I am either editing library music or writing music for the award shows.

*Label and management decide what music they want played when their artists come on stage for award shows and I have to work with them to put that together.

*Award shows are giant marketing events for artists, films, shows, etc.

*When actors or models come on stage to be presenters, I have to figure out what their brand is and create music that fits who they are. Then their managers have to approve it most of the time.

*The stress in award shows comes when they don’t tell you who the artists or presenters are until about a week before the show. So you’re doing stuff blind and chasing a lot of rumors and sometimes do work for no reason.

*You’re going to do a lot of work for nothing, but that’s part of the job.

*I do pop culture award shows, not academy awards, etc.

*You only get about 48 hours to turn a song for t.v. shows.

*I rarely have time as a music supervisor to reach out and ask licensing agents for songs to put in a show. I have reached out directly to artists and had them send me music that I needed right at that moment.

*A music supervisor’s sentiment for putting an artist’s music in a show should be “thank you,” not “you’re welcome, I just got you exposure on social media.” That is devaluing you as an artist.

*We have devalued music for the past 25 years.

*Music supervisors should appreciate the artists and thank them for making the show successful.

*Music supervisors should always be respectful of the musician’s art making their show better.

*I would love to see the business of music stop accepting less all the time and try to be innovative and get back to more with innovation.

*I moved to Nashville with the goal of saying “how can we break the mold entirely and start over again with a new model that will actually generate real revenue for artists and not just take whatever we’ve left them by giving away things all the time."

*I have a company called Black Sleeve Media to create a new medium for music that can be experiential like the video gaming world where people will find value in and spend money on.

*We’ve built technology for mobile devices that can play back multiple multi-tracks all at one time to gamify the experience of music and tie it all to different social experiences and communication experiences and festivals, and tie to brands, etc. and make it so you’re actually participating in music. It’s all virtual currency based so you’re not buying music but unlocking features and things they can do with music that will pay the artist the same way that the sale of CD would pay.

*It’s mostly on mobile platforms working with artists and festivals to connect with the users.

*Advice for getting into this world?

*Do a lot of different things. They all have their own life and they all tie together so be free in not saying I only do one thing.

*Someone taught me a technical skill to match my mental skill so I could express myself.

*If you want to get into music supervision, there is a tremendous amount of value in technical skills. In being able to present your ideas to directors and producers they you hear them in your mind.

*Learn how to edit music. Learn how to marry that music to Quicktime so you can take a show and put the scenes and music together edited the way you want.

*The difference between being able to present yourself and your creative ideas as a music supervisor to picture, edited the way you hear them so it’s artistically doing what you’re hearing in your head, compared to just telling people your a music supervisor is huge.

*Show them you have a clever, creative style.

*You can’t show style without being able to present yourself.

*Music supervision is a very hard world to get into now.

*Learn how to program and do everything. It’s a job.

*You don’t have to do it all at once, just get on the path. It’s a long journey.

*It’s your presentation.

*How do you approach a production company to show them a demo reel so you can become a music supervisor or composer?

*You can get an agent like CAA or First Artist Management. There are multiple talent agents you can look up.

*If you can show them something, they’ll watch it. You are competing against a bunch of people who have nothing to show for themselves.

*Make something to show for yourself.

*You don’t have to be signed with an agent to be a music supervisor, but it sure helps.

*What is a talent agent going to do for you? If you’re new, they will connect you with indie films and small projects that nobody on the roster wants to do because it pays a smaller amount. They can offer that to you and if you follow through with it and do it well it will lead to bigger things, but you will only get the job is you SHOW them you can do the job, not tell them you can do the job.

*Telling people you can do this job doesn’t help you. Showing them you can do this job helps you.

*You can research “music supervision agency” or “composer agency.”

*Music editors are critical because they are the pass-through in between the composer and the music supervisor and the show.

*Music editors are critical people to get to know and send music to and work with.

*Music editors are your first line people to get music to as an independent artist because they have to add temp music to picture. Give them music and ask them just to temp with it. It will most likely get replaced but it means that your music is getting shown to directors and you might be able to get a copy back and use it as a demo reel.

*You’re just trying to show people what you can do to start and it will come from there.

*Nobody is getting music in front of directors and producers more than a music editor with their own music because they have the knife and a picture with no music that needs temp music.

*The music editor is the one who shapes the sound of t.v. show pilot more than anyone.

*Music editing companies hire music editors. They don’t need an agent.

*This is all one big job. Learn how to dive in and edit your music.

*Pick 10 different shows and try the same song in all different environments and you’ll find out where it works best. That will teach you a lot about your music.

*Comedy is the hardest to thing to put music to. If you can do that well you can jump to the front of the line because it is a very niche thing in Hollywood.

*Don’t try to be something. Be you and try you in a lot of different things.

*Learn what you’re good at by applying it to all different things.

*Doug’s website

Doug DeAngelis is a composer/producer/musical director and music supervisor. He began his professional career at age 18 at SyncroSound Recording Studio in Boston while attending Berklee College of Music for music synthesis.

At age nineteen, he recorded the Nine Inch Nails hit “Head Like A Hole” with Trent Reznor and world-renowned producer Flood. In 1989, DeAngelis left Boston on a world tour with the Detroit Techno crossover dance artist Inner City. After the tour, he moved to New York City where he amassed over 300 album & remix credits including 31 #1 Billboard Chart singles. Album credits include New Order, Michael Jackson, Queen Latifa, Chaka Khan, Love and Rockets, Alicia Keys, and No Doubt.

Doug's career then shifted to Los Angeles where his music was embraced by Hollywood producer Michael Mann as the score for his CBS crime drama series Robbery Homicide Division.  His music has since appeared in over 100 television shows including CSI, Baby Daddy, The Evidence, The Nine Lives Of Chloe King, Bones, Alias, Cold Case, CSI Miami, ER, as well as dozens of reality television programs. He has written main title themes for Chelsea Lately, CNN Heroes, E! True Hollywood Stories Investigates, The NASCAR franchise, and co-written the main title songs to the film Blades Of Glory starring Will Ferrell, and The American Country Awards.

Recently, Doug won a BMI Music Award for his underscore to the FOX series 'Lie To Me', and composed the score for an Academy Award nominated feature documentary film entitled 'The Garden'.    Outside of the studio, Doug is the Conference Chair and Co-Founder of A3E, The Advanced Audio & Applications Exchange. A3E is a leading industry resource dedicated to the future of new music technologies. A3E is an educational partner to NAMM, The National Association Of Music Merchants. 

My friend Keith Everette Smith and I sat down together recently to discuss his rise through the ranks of the music industry to create his own path to success as a producer, artist developer, session player and touring musician working with some of the biggest names in all of music.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*Keith plays trumpet, piano, drums, guitar and bass. He also produces music and does artist development.

*I started out learning trumpet and drums as a small child and added other instruments along the way.

*I started producing music in high school and college for friend’s bands by reading articles in magazines.

*Enthusiasm has always led what I’ve done.

*I produced an album and did some road managing for college friend Meredith Andrews who is now a well known worship artist.

ARTIST DEVLOPMENT

*I Enjoyed the aspect Artist Development and helping build a career from the ground up.

*I was invited to be on staff as Instrumental Director at Saddleback Church in CA because of a relationship.

*I produced the boy band Anthem Lights while at Saddleback Church.

*I began artist development for Anthem Lights and got them signed to Provident Music in Nashville. That was my door in to Nashville. Plus, I had already produced other albums independently.

*I did not expect to play trumpet when moving to Nashville. I came to Nashville to be a producer.

*What does it mean to do Artist Development? Developing your gut, your ability to evaluate talent and people of good character. It’s a very gut level thing in terms of finding people to develop.

*The non-negotiable thing for me is finding people with great character.

*Fame is a really dangerous thing.

*I consider it a great responsibility to make sure I’m helping good people steward success well.

*It’s an exercise in taking something great and making it even greater by exaggerating it and making it stand out even more than it already does.

*Most people spend their artistic life trying to fit in.

*You have to figure out how to join the ranks of those you respect, then how to stand out from them.

*The way you win at artist development is exaggerate what makes them great.

*Sometimes you can take a negative thing about an artist and turn it into a positive.

*Limitations are wonderful breeding grounds for opportunity and success.

*Comparison can be very important or detrimental.

*What are day to day attributes of being an artist developer? It’s making sure the music is great, making sure the artist is on social media and streaming services, helping an artist figure out who they are and what makes them unique, who they are as a person.

*Keith’s wife Tasha Layton is an artist and vocal coach and she says “you grow as a singer as you grow as a person.”

*What do you (artist) care about? Are you believable? Is your message trustworthy. That’s why an audience will listen to you.

*I am looking for inconsistencies in the message all day long.

*There is much about artist development and producing an artist that is simply psychology.

*Labels want to know: Can I sell it? Do people want it? Can I make money off of it?

*You have to be careful with your own artistic integrity.

*I’m trying to develop the artist into something that is appealing and consistent enough to be a good investment for the record label.

*You are doing whatever it take to be able to present the artist the way they need to be presented to labels, publishers, managers, etc.

*Social Proofing - building an artists career enough to prove to the labels that they are worth signing and investing in because other people have already proven that they like this artist. So you can trust that if you decide to sign this artist, it’s worth it because the masses already like it.

PLAYING FOR, PRODUCING AND ARRANGING FOR ARTISTS

*For most of us, doing multiple things in music is what let’s us make a living at it.

*You can’t be average. You have to be exceptional at 2 or 3 things and let what your average at fill in the gaps when there is time.

*My career has consisted of producing, songwriting, horn playing, arranging, vocal editing for big producers and artists.

*My horn playing and arranging is what gets me in the room with the biggest clients.

*Have something unique to bring.

*Your consistency is so important.

*Showing up everyday, being easy to work with, doing a great job, meeting people who are working on small projects and build those relationships so as they build up to bigger projects, you can be someone they call on.

*A friend I knew when I was on staff at Saddleback Church in CA worked on Disney projects and called me to work on The Jonas Brothers.

*I ran into a friend on the street in Nashville who knew I played horns and he asked if I could play horns on a project and it turned out to be Jack White.

*If people think you are trying to use them to make the next connection, they will stiff arm that and not want to work with you.

*Be eager but it let it come to you.

*You are always serving people. Go beyond their expectations. Don’t ask for anything in return.

*Don’t do anything for free. That devalues you.

*Develop a strategy of how you tell people how much you are worth.

*Get to know about the local Musicians Union and find out what the standard rates are for recording.

*Spend the money on a great vocal mic.

PLAYING FOR TOBY MAC

*A horn player I used to play with in the band Denver and Mile High Orchestra was playing for Toby’s albums and he called me to play on a song. That guy moved away and he referred Toby to call me for the next album.

*Then Toby asked me about playing other instruments and asked me to come play in the road as a utility player (multiple instruments).

*You have to run the business of your career.

*Know the realm of the business you are working in.

*Practical advice for people getting into this business:

*Ask someone you trust what you are doing wrong.

*Ask for help to make weaknesses strong.

*Not everyone’s supposed to do this the way they thought. Maybe you need to be in a different part of the industry.

*It’s not worth sacrificing your family.

*If you don’t love it, do something else. If you do love it, follow the paths that open up.

*Enjoy it!

*Keith’s social media @producerkeith1 on Instagram

*You can contact Keith at www.keitheverettesmith.com

*Toby Mac’s song Keith played on that Keith suggests: “Everything” on the Elements record.

Keith Everette Smith is a Multi-Grammy and Dove Award winning producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and a member of TobyMac's Diverse City Band.  If there’s one thread that comes through everything he does, it’s that he’s good at seeing potential, envisioning where to go and helping lead people there. He is an activator. Smith is a lifelong trumpet player whose understanding of music, recording and performer development positions him as a sought after session player and arranger.   As a producer, Keith has a track record of success both within and outside of the church.  He has worked with artist like Jack White, The Jonas Brothers, TobyMac, Plumb, Dave Barnes, MercyMe, Amy Grant, Marc Broussard and many others.  He has also played on soundtracks and scores for movies and television including “The Lone Ranger”, “The Jersey Boys”, "Degrassi", commercials for SoBe, and produced music for the 2016 People's Choice Awards. Keith has served on staff at churches like Fellowship Bible Church in Brentwood, TN and Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA and is formerly the network manager for Ascension Worship in Nashville.

My good friend Jeremy Quarles and I visited recently to discuss his work in the music industry working with a sound company as a professional live sound engineer and also as a road manager and production manager for different artists and festivals.  In part 1 of our conversation we discuss how to go about getting a job working for production companies, the pros and cons being an independent contractor, building relationships that open doors for bigger opportunities and learning how to say "no" to things that distract from your true goals.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

Talking Points:

*I was classically trained on piano starting at 4 years old.

*I went to Belmont University and focused in audio engineering.

*During senior year of college I gravitated toward live sound and reached out to Spectrum Sound and worked part time prepping gear and learning what the live concert industry was.

*I offered to work for free just to learn.

*I became a contract worker after a short period of time and they would use me for shows when needed.

*What did you do at a show starting out? I was at the bottom loading and unloading, doing low level audio engineer jobs like making sure the cables are connected properly and signals are getting to all the consoles, etc.

*It takes a lot of organization and forethought knowing how the whole system works which is why it’s an entry level position. Because you are having to learn how everything works and getting that general overview of how the system works before you get into specializing into one thing.

*Contract work has advantages - Flexibility to pursue other interest and jobs when work is slow. You’re not tied down to one particular company or job.

*Contract work disadvantages - You’re not getting healthcare benefits, you don’t have a minimum salary so your budgeting is up in the air when shows are inconsistent.

*You can move up the ranks quickly from loading and unloading trucks to running sound for events as long as you pick up on it because there is always a lot of work with concerts and events especially in Nashville.

*I was doing different jobs from the patch where you’re coordinating all the inputs and outputs, to system tuning where you hang the P.A. and tune it for the front of house engineers coming in whether the band was bring someone in to run sound or if it was someone from Spectrum Sound. I was a stage tech helping the mix engineer for festivals, then I moved into mixing monitors and front of house for my own festival stage.

*I was making connections along the way with the tours and the bands I was working with.

*I was on the Rock and Worship Tour with Mercy Me and Jeremy Camp and some others and when you’re on the road for a long time, you get to know people and make connections.

*You’re not doing it to make connections but you’re always in each others mind when things come up in the future.

*The music industry is a small pocket of people.

*I had a friend who was a sound engineer and road manager who asked me to fill in for a couple of shows for Christy Nockels which was great because I wanted to get away from the technical side and more into the personal side working with artists and artist management. So this was a good opportunity to give it a try and see how it went.

*That is what turned my thinking into road managing.

*In Christian music a lot of people do more than one job on the road. A very common job for one person is front of house engineer and road manager.

*My first full time gig as road manager / FOH engineer was Francesca Battistelli.

*At that artist level she needed a dedicated road manager and a dedicated production manager.

*I became production managing and running front of house taking care of everything production related.

*What is a Production Manager responsible for? Taking care of audio, lighting and video. Working with artist management to find out what they want on the tour, what kind of elements are needed. Being in charge of the lighting director, video director, audio crew.

*Also if management wants a light show for the tour, I would go to different vendors and hire them to do the design and come out on the tour.

*I started with Francesca as a production guy who could road manage and realized I wanted to be a road manager who could do production.

*That transition means turning down some work.

*It’s a scary position to be in because you have to say no to things that aren’t going to take you where you want to go in the future in order to get to where you want to go in the future because if you don’t, you won’t have time to do the things that are going to propel you forward.

Jeremy grew up just north of Atlanta, GA and has always had a love for music and an entrepreneurial spirit. In 2008, Jeremy moved from Atlanta to Nashville, where he attended Belmont University to study Audio Engineering and Music. Though many in the program were drawn to the studio, he found himself being drawn toward the road.

While finishing school, Jeremy began to work at a local audio company in Nashville, where he started working live events both in Nashville and abroad. Upon graduating, Jeremy worked his way up as an audio contractor working various tours and conferences and eventually started to work for artists mixing FOH and Monitors. While his passion for the music industry was strong, Jeremy’s passion for the production side of live events started to wane. This led to a time of self-discovery, in which he found a new passion – road managing.

Over a period of two years, Jeremy began to intentionally transition his focus from being an audio engineer who could road manage to being a road manager who could also mix. In addition to going on the road as a road manager, Jeremy also began advancing for artists he didn’t travel with as an “Advance Manager.” Since starting to work as a Road/Advance Manager, Jeremy has worked for many of the biggest names in Christian music, including: Steven Curtis Chapman (current) Third Day Francesca Battistelli Brandon Heath Mandisa Love & The Outcome Sidewalk Prophets The Afters Christy Nockels Meredith Andrews Jason Gray Aaron Shust Anthem Lights Selah Hawk Nelson

Since late 2017, Jeremy has been the Road / Production Manager for Steven Curtis Chapman, which is his current position. They just completed over 100 shows on the “SCC Solo Tour.” When Jeremy isn’t on the road, he is working as Project Manager and Director of Content at Peach and Pine Home, the interior design firm he and his wife, Chandler, own and operate. Their newest project is a podcast called “Love Where You Live,” a podcast about all-things interior design and home renovation. Golf is his favorite hobby, and his ideal afternoon includes a round of golf on a mostly sunny, 65 degree day and hanging out with his wife and close friends. 

This week I’m talking with a live audience at Lifest in Osh Kosh, WI sharing my story and answering questions from the audience about the music industry. We are discussing the pros and cons of streaming platforms, the importance of having other writers critique your songwriting and what I believe is the definition of success for anyone pursuing a career in the music industry.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*Building a touring schedule on your own as a new artist. *How to build relationships with people in order to writing songs professionally. *Recording albums with today’s technology. *The pros and cons of streaming platforms. *What record companies look for in signing artists in today’s climate. *How to hone your songwriting skills. *Have 3 other writers to give you honest feedback about your songs. *How to find venues that play your style of music. *The pros and cons of going to college for music vs. bypassing college. *When others quit, you keep going. *The definition of success. *www.johnmartinkeith.com *www.edenbrookeproductions.com

BIO:


John Martin Keith is a singer-songwriter with Edenbrooke Music in Nashville, Tennessee. He is passionate about God and music and has over 20 years of experience in the music industry. John Martin, better known as Marty, has performed in front of thousands from the stage along with artists including Steven Curtis Chapman, Jaci Velasquez, and NewSong, among others.

Originally from Paducah, Kentucky, Marty began learning to play the guitar at the age of four from Herb Chapman Sr., father of GRAMMY and Dove award winning artist Steven Curtis Chapman. Throughout his early life, Marty played talent shows and county fairs in Kentucky, sharpening his skills and preparing for the day he moved to Nashville, Tennessee to pursue his dream of a music career. During his college years in Kansas and Missouri, he shifted into music ministry, working with youth camps, which shaped his style of music into what it is today.

In 2006, Marty became an ordained worship pastor and was dubbed a “musicianary” by one of his pastors. Since then, he has spent years touring the country, sharing the gospel of Jesus through his music in churches, camps, youth conferences/retreats, and colleges. “When I lead worship, my goal is not to become the focus, but to turn the focus to the throne of God. I want worshipers to look inside themselves and at their relationship with Jesus. To understand that apart from Christ there is no hope in the world and through Christ alone can salvation, peace, and joy be found,” says Marty. He adds, “These songs fit into every category of life. They are about real life, real joy, real love, real struggle. Being a Christian does not mean we won’t have struggles. Christ told his disciples, ‘in this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.’ (John 16:33) Even in the struggles, there should be worship. Everything we do in life should be an act of worship to the Lord.” Marty’s music strives to be a reflection of that.

As a songwriter, Marty writes multiple genres, including Pop, Country, Praise & Worship, Americana, Rock, and Dance with some of the top hit makers in Nashville including Mark Irwin (Garth Brooks, Tim McGraw), Nicole Witt (George Strait, Lee Brice), Brady Seals (Little Texas, Hot Apple Pie), Lindsay McCaul, Farewell Angelina, Luke Brown (American Idol), and Shay Watson (Sidewalk Prophets, The Young and the Restless). Marty also writes and produces songs for tv/film and ads with artists from all over the world.  He currently has music placed on CBS, FOX Sports, Discovery Channel, History Channel, The Smithsonian Channel and more.

Marty takes every opportunity given to him to create great music with the hope of enriching peoples live through it. In upbeat songs of praise to our Creator, heartfelt love songs for his wife, or heartbreaking stories of despair he has personally encountered, everyone can find something they are looking for in John Martin Keith’s music.

Marty is the owner of Edenbrooke Music. Edenbrooke Music strives to improve the quality of musical entertainment by improving talent though teaching, by improving sound through production, and by improving the career of the musician through performance and recording opportunity. Edenbrooke Music offers guitar lessons, live sound for special events, booking for touring artists and music production services. Learn more at www.edenbrookemusic.com.

This week I’m talking with my friend Tony Wood who is one of the most successful songwriters in music, period. He currently has 34 #1 songs across multiple genres and over 900 songs recorded by various artists like: Michael W. Smith, Zach Williams, Reba McEntire, for KING & COUNTRY,  Oak Ridge Boys, Ricky Skaggs, Scott Krippayne and Bill Gaither and so many more. We are discussing how to know if you are ready to approach a publisher about a songwriting deal, writing with people who are better than you and the importance of the radio single vs. full albums in today’s market.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*The hardest meeting to get with a publisher is the second meeting, not the first. *How to know if you’re ready to approach a publisher. *Working temp jobs while building your career. *There’s no guarantee of sustaining success once you have it. *Do it for the love of it. *The single is everything now. *You need to find a relationship with an artist to write with. *Aspire to write with people ahead of you. *Write songs that can become your calling card. *Getting through the terror. *Finding ways to connect. *It’s never been a level playing field. *Be mindful of the marketplace when writing. *Work on your theology.

BIO: Tony Wood is a staff writer for CURB/Word Music in Nashville, TN. He has won multiple Dove Awards over his career. Currently, Tony has written 34 #1 songs and has over 900 songs recorded  by artists across multiple genres like: Michael W. Smith, Zach Williams, Reba McEntire, for KING & COUNTRY, Steven Curtis Chapman, CAIN, PASSION, Oak Ridge Boys, Ricky Skaggs, Scott Krippayne, Jessica Simpson, Bill Gaither and many more.

This week I am talking with recording artist Mac Powell live from Lifest Music City just outside of Nashville, TN. Mac is best known as the frontman for the Christian rock band Third Day who released 13 albums in 21 years and received 4 Grammy Awards and 25 Dove Awards. He has been building his solo career over the past few years and is not shy to talk about starting over as a solo artist after being in a successful band for many years. We are discussing being stuck in a contract you want out of, the difference in being on an indie label vs. major label and not being afraid to play in front of smaller audiences.  

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we discuss:

*Being stuck in a contract you want out of. *Major labels buying out an indie label contract. *The difference in being on an indie label vs. major label. *More doors open up when being on a major label. *Starting over as a solo artist after being in a successful band. *Don’t be afraid to play in front of small audiences. *Enjoy where you are but have this dissatisfied contentment. *www.macpowell.com

BIO: Mac Powell grew up in a small town in Alabama. His love for music began at an early age as both of his parents would sing and play guitar around the house. Mac soon began to sing in the local country church by day, and listen to his Dad's record collection by night. When Mac was a sophomore in high school, he moved to Atlanta, GA where his passion for music and faith found an outlet in the band THIRD DAY. Over the past 25 years THIRD DAY has helped transform Christian music and built a devoted fan base while traveling the world many times over, selling 10 million albums, earning 4 Grammy awards, 1 American Music Award, 24 Dove Awards, and by being inducted into the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. Since Third Day’s farewell tour in 2018 Mac released a country album “Back Again” under the banner “Mac Powell And The Family Reunion” and he has just released his debut solo Christian album “New Creation.” Mac is on staff at Church of the Apostles in Atlanta, GA where he lives with his wife Aimee and their five children.

This week I am talking with hit songwriter, composer and producer Alex Geringas from the company Rare Behavior. His songs have been recorded by Snoop Dogg, Jessie J and Cher to name a few and his music is used in multiple movies including Pitch Perfect 3 and The Lego Ninjago Movie and the tv shows Beat Shazam and Trollstopia. We are talking about what it’s like to produce major artists who are recording your songs, the differences in scoring music for film vs. tv and the reality of professionals having to prove themselves with every new project even when you have a list of successes in the business.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Composing for tv shows and movies. *Working with artists in the studio as a producer. *Scoring film is completely different from a tv show. *The hardest genre to score is the one that is not yours. *The difference between scoring music for live action vs. animated shows. *Learning what the producers and directors want. *Building relationships. *The best way to network. *Keep yourself updated and learning. *You have to invest in yourself. *How music is created for tv shows. *How to get your foot in the door working for a composer. *Professionals have to prove themselves with every project. *Focus on one goal. *www.rarebehavior.com

BIO:

Multi-award-winning Songwriter / Composer Alex Geringas has garnered international acclaim for both his songs and scores.  His music has earned him awards and recognition on several continents including a Grammy award, BMI Awards,Emmy and Annie nominations for his Scores and two Echo awards (the German equivalent to a Grammy). In 2019 Alex was nominated to be a Judge at the Annie Awards. Before Geringas relocated from Hamburg,Germany to Los Angeles in 2011 he had eighteen #1 Hits worldwide, as Songwriter including eleven # 1 hits in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, six #1 hits in Japan, two #1 in South Korea.His songs were performed by music icons including Snoop Dogg, Jessie J, Timbaland, Cher, Kelly Clarkson, Ben Schwartz, Dove Cameron and many more. Also Alex scored some of the most successful films in Germany in the last years “I’m Off Then” for Universal Germany and the highly acclaimed Family Trilogy “Hanni & Nanni 1-3” for Warner Bros. Germany. Alex has currently 12 Theme Songs on TV with Disney, Dreamworks, Henson and Nickelodeon. For example FAST AND FURIOUS : SPY RACERS, WORD PARTY, RAINBOW RANGERS and VOLTRON, LEGENDARY DEFENDER and the upcoming Shows TROLLSTOPIA and THE CHICKEN SQUAD. Additionally, he contributed songs for the PBS Show SPLASH AND BUBBLES, SUPERMONSTERS and many more. In the Game Show Category, Geringas has written themes for BEAT SHAZAM (FOX) , SING YOUR FACE OFF (ABC) and most recently he did all the Music for CHRISSY'S COURT on Quibi. Alex Geringas Music for the big screen includes end title songs for ICE AGE 5, THE NUT JOB 2, WOODY WOODPECKER (theme and all songs) and for THE LEGO NINJAGO MOVIE where he also contributed additional music. Other original song contributions include the TV series’ THE MUPPETS (ABC), TRAINING DAY (CBS) and CSI (CBS).  Alex also contributed additional music for PITCH PERFECT 3 and UNCLE DREW. He also contributed Original Songs for the Robert De Niro and Uma Thurman film THE WAR WITH GRANDPA (D : Timothy Hill) and wrote Additional Music for the Melissa McCarthy film HAPPYTIME MURDERS. Besides that he just worked with Hans Zimmer and with Director Timothy Hill on the upcoming THE SPONGE BOB MOVIE : SPONGE ON THE RUN for Paramount Pictures. After completing the score for TROLLS THE BEAT GOES ON for DWA/Netflix in 2020, Alex is currently scoring the new Trolls TV Show TROLLSTOPIA and the Disney Jr. Show CHUGGINGTON (Season 6).  He has teamed up with Mike Himelstein as the Episodic Songwriter of the upcoming Disney Jr. Show THE CHICKEN SQUAD.  He also is scoring and writing all songs for an upcoming Netflix Animation TV Show.  Additionally, Alex is scoring two unannounced projects, a Netflix Animated Feature and a Nickelodeon Animated Feature.

This week I am talking with composer Catherine Joy.  Catherine is the founder and CEO of Joy Music House, which is a full service score production company in L.A.. She is also the Vice President for the Alliance for Women Film Composers. Her music has been featured on projects for Netflix, Amazon and HBO to name a few.  Today we are talking about the importance of having a mentor when starting your career, the difference between, composing, arranging and orchestrating a project and the importance of how you represent yourself when connecting with clients and other composers you want to work with.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com.

In this episode we talk about:

*Networking with composers. *Joining different composer organizations to meet people in your field. *You have to become a part of that community. *Mentors get you in the door but you have to be able to do the work. *Ask mentors to help open doors for you. *Joy Music House is her production company that does score producing for tv/film. *Orchestrating means taking someone’s midi string files and breaking them out to make sure every note is arranged correctly for a live orchestra. *Composing means creating your own arrangements. *Arranging means taking a concept or music and adding elements or changing things around to complement the picture. *How production companies get to know our work. *How to market yourself on social media. *If you cold call anyone, be thoughtful about how you reach out.  Do your research. *Be careful how you represent yourself. *Ask “how can I help you?” *If you’re good, you’re going to find work. *Get someone to check your work. *When you make mistakes, take ownership and say “I’m sorry.” *Be persistent but polite. *https://www.joymusichouse.com/

Catherine Joy - Music For Media

With a passion for music and collaboration, Catherine Joy is a composer for film, media and live performance. She won Best Documentary Score for the uplifting feature documentary Gold Balls. She recently scored the multi-award winning documentary The Augmentation of Douglas Engelbart (now streaming on Amazon Prime), the supernatural thriller The Parish and documentary Naughty Books which features narration by Aisha Tyler and Allison Tolman and premieres at Cinequest Film festival, March 2020. 

Catherine is the founder and CEO of Joy Music House, a full service score production company. She is also the Vice President for the Alliance for Women Film Composers.

Catherine has scored a number of series, starting with Capitol Hill which began on youtube and is now televised throughout Canada and Europe. More recently she scored the sci-fi dramady Abby and Tabby Alone in the Desert (now streaming on Seed and Spark) the documentary series Women of the Island, and No Matter What, which released on youtube September 2019. She contributed additional arrangements on the Emmy-award-winning Netflix doc series Wild Wild Country. Most recently Catherine worked on the History Channel 3 night miniseries event WASHINGTON, premiering Feb 16, 2020. Catherine also lead Joy Music House team in score producing Homecoming Season 2. 

Catherine is currently scoring the video games The Endless Mission and Beyond Blue. She is also working on a Ballet in collaboration with choreographer Rival Tribe which will premiere end of 2020.

Catherine & Joy Music House worked on notable feature projects. Catherine score supervised and orchestrated on Minari which one the Grand Jury and Audience award at Sundance 2020 along with the emmy-nominated scores RBG and Love, Gilda. She also score supervised the HBO documentary At The Heart of Gold and the feature Son of The South executive produced by Spike Lee and directed by his long-time editor Barry Alexander Brown. Catherine was also the orchestrator on the animated series High Guardian Spice, set for release in 2020. 

She graduated Summa Cum Laude with a Bachelor of Music at Cornish College of the Arts. She then completed her Masters of Music from Boston University and also went through the Pacific Northwest Film Scoring program in 2011.Catherine is from Tasmania, Australia. She moved to the United States in 1998 to pursue a career in music and plays many instruments including violin, piano, and guitar.

This week I’m talking with John Clinebell of Sync It! Music and Licensing Basecamp which teaches artists and producers to get their songs and production up to standard for sync pitching. John has tons of sync placements including Fox, Disney/ABC, CBS, Starbucks and more. We are discussing the best ways to approach making music and pitching music in the sync world, plus what genres of music are being asked for currently in sync.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions - We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at contact@johnmartinkeith.com. 

In this episode we talk about:

*A music supervisor is tasked with the creative and legal aspects of putting music to picture in tv or film within the budget they are given to work with. *Sync It Music and Licensing base camp teaching people to get the songs and production up to standard for pitching, providing encouragement and accountability and strategies for success with different workshops by bringing in experts in different areas and providing pitching opportunities as well. *Sync It Music partners with different licensing agents so the clients can pitch their music and hopefully get signed by the agent for representation. *Things to consider between exclusive and non-exclusive deals. *If it’s confusing who reps your music, you can lose deals. *Follow music supervisors on social media to see what they are posting about types of music they are pitching for. *Genres needed for sync currently. *Your music needs to be soulful in a fun way for ads. *Most agencies want to support actual artists, not made up artists just for sync. *Music that works great for sync, but also fits what you do as an artist is best. *Create alt endings to your songs that ring out the the last chord instead of a sting ending. *Control Camp is a great place to learn what is needed in licensing. *Be polite to the people you want to work with. *Ask for what you want but do it in a way that is respectful. *Go through proper channels when pitching to supervisors. *www.johnclinebell.com *www.syncitmusic.com

BIO: John is originally from the mid west, was based in Los Angeles for 15 years, and moved to Nashville in 2022.  John has placements with Fox, Disney/ABC, CBS, BET, ESPN, MTV, Nick jr, Lifetime, Netflix, Hulu, Oxygen, USA networks, Facebook/Instagram corporate, Starbucks commercials, CBBC, Microsoft corporate, Ring training and promo videos, CBC’s q radio, Sky, Spotify playlists, in-store at major UK retailers and many other places. music repped by Sky, 411, Lyric House, So Stereo, Koze Music, Protunes, Think Music, Crucial, Atrium, Heavy Hitters, Song & Film, Imaginary Friends and other sync partners.

John has pro studio locations in Nashville, Tennessee and Los Angeles (Koreatown). He and production partner / manager Billy Lefler produce together under the name Bacon Shake.

John is the founder of make moves in music, a community for music entrepreneurs and also a podcast. Also co-founder of sync it! music with Sonnet Simmons. They have an exclusive sync licensing education community called Licensing Basecamp where they give indie artists, songwriters and producers the encouragement, accountability and success strategies they need to start earning money licensing their music to tv, film and ads.

From 2019-2021 John served as director of music at catch the moon music, a music licensing education company founded by Cathy Heller. They mentored talented indie artists, songwriters and producers on how to go about getting their songs onto tv shows, films, ads, video games, in-store and into music production libraries and helped connect the dots between students/alumni and decision makers in the industry.