Workplace Stories by RedThread Research (Stacia Garr & Dani Johnson)

This episode sets the tone for this season, with podcast hosts Stacia Garr, Dani Johnson, and Chris Pirie discussing why skills are so important now, how leaders should think about using them, and the challenges facing us all as we adapt to the future of work.

“What I introduce [my students] to are the kinds of skills that allow them to navigate ambiguity.” If that seems like urgently-needed capability you or your team to have you’re in luck, as you’re about to find out a whole lot more about why you’d need such a thing… and why you won’t find it, alas, in today’s conventional curriculum (including corporate L&D). In the first full episode of our new RedThread podcast—our deep dive into what we’re calling capitalism’s focus on ‘The Skills Obsession’—we meet passionate educator, innovator and bestselling author Lisa Kay Solomon. Designer in Residence at the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design (‘the d.school’) at Stanford University, Lisa presents in her dialog with Stacia, Dani and Chris something of a masterclass in what thinking about the future actually needs to consist of—and how that feeds into her conviction that, “learning is the currency of possibility.”

“When software releases went from Microsoft releasing once every other year to releasing 16 times a week, you know, like all that started to happen; our ability to keep up with the world around us really started to decline.” Whatever else he is (and he is many good things), Guild Education’s Matthew Daniel is genuinely passionate about skills. Scrub that: he’s agonized about them—and he’s even more agonized about the trouble we’re storing up for ourselves as a society around them. As we find out in our hour together, he fears we’re wasting a lot of time and missing a lot of opportunity chasing the wrong metrics about them, ignoring vast swathes of the ones our workforces (especially our frontline teams) have. But his agony does lead to positivity, and we think you’ll agree with him when he says the original purpose that got so many of us into L&D will help us win through.

“I think that in the future, what will be really necessary in terms of skills are people that talk different languages of skills… talking different languages of different skill sets will be something really, really important.” Why is it significant that become more expert seems so fused with speaking restricted languages? And what does it mean to have ‘intentionality’ about skills? How do you start to really understand the skills needs of an organization you join in COVID? This week, these and many other thorny but critical issues get exposed via our debate with long-time friend and highly accomplished CLO and talent leader Nuno Gonçalves, who is now starting to do at global confectionary, food and pet care giant Mars what he did at European life sciences player UCB: implement a cross-company, future-focused skills strategy. It’s an excellent conversation with a truly passionate learning ninja who’s thought deeply about these problems; we think you’re going to love it.

“I think we have to help organizations get out of the way and let people unleash and unlock their capabilities in ways that does not require the organization to be at the center.” Sounds pretty optimistic? No surprise as whatever else he is, our guest this week, Greg Pryor, is an optimist—and we are too, given the power of the examples and the strength of the conviction he gave us in this hour of debate over the future of HR. Greg, People & Performance Evangelist at Workday, a tech firm that is shaking up the world of enterprise software and which we’re grateful to have as sponsor of this whole Workplace Stories first season, shares many fascinating insights into what he sees as a totally new age for human capital management that the pandemic has tipped us all into. These cover the gamut from bleeding-edge academic research on the future of work to the life lessons kids are teaching their parents out of playing Fortnite, and keep Stacia and fellow interviewer Chris engaged and often delighted. It’s a great conversation: use it to level up your thinking about skills. We certainly did.

Dr Madhura Chakrabarti is one of our favorite HR thinkers and doers, so we jumped at the chance to hear of the genuinely pioneering work she’s doing for the 29,000 people who work for her employer Syngenta, a leading Swiss-headquartered science-based agtech company that helps millions of farmers round the world grow safe and nutritious food, while taking care of the planet. Despite COVID, in early December Madhura and her small L&D team launched an innovative cross-company skills framework supported by a new learning platform implementation. This episode is a great chance to hear about the real practical challenges of creating such a framework and how hard it can be to find the right partner to help, as well as the importance of people analytics in general: you’re really going to hear from the HR data and skills coal face here. Making this experience even better: Madhura’s charm, professionalism and fierce intellect. Truly, some great Workplace Stories this week!

For some reason, we don’t listen enough to what our peers in the non-profit world can tell us about skills. But when a practitioner there says something like, “We see anybody joining us as an empty vessel: a bit like in Men in Black, someone wipes your brain out at Reception, you come through and then we up-skill you. That means we forget you come with a commodity of a vast array of skills; that’s why we hired you, that's why you're supporting us—all of those things that we so much want, but we don’t have a way of actually capturing that and supporting that as a network,” we think a lot of ears will prick up in corporate L&D! If you agree, check out this deep dive into everything from skills frameworks (their seductions and their perils) to credentialling with Satnam Sagoo. Satnam works at British Red Cross, where she’s accountable for developing and delivering the organization’s learning and organisation development strategy—creating an L&D offer that meets the need of all 5,000 permanent staff but also what can be at times of crisis 100,000 temporary and external volunteers. Is this the most heart-felt of all our looks at The Skills Obsession? We’ll leave you to judge—it certainly moved (and inspired) all of us.

Truism 1: McDonald’s employs a lot of people. Truism 2: it doesn’t care that much about those people, so long as they flip the burgers OK, right? That second one is totally wrong, as we find out in our great conversation with the giant company’s former CLO, the very engaging Rob Lauber. In fact, with its pioneering Archways Program, thousands of entry-level staff get amazing on-the-job training, but also money and support for up-skilling—upskilling that the corporation is perfectly OK with them using to move on, often to full-time education or valuable social careers like healthcare. Even more interesting: for every $1 put in the Archways Program, McDonald's directly benefits $3 back. Skills and what they mean (including some refreshing scepticism from Rob about what the robots really will take off us) has been Rob’s own ‘obsession’ over a storied career, so tune in for more on running training at mass scale—including some fascinating advise on what CLOs can do now, today, in terms of available company data. It’s enough to make you hungry.

What actually happens when your boss tells you one day he’d like you to teach a few people new digital skills… say, 25 million or so? You’re going to find out this week, because that really did happen to our great guest, Microsoft Global General Manager, Talent and Learning Experiences and Workforce of the Future Karen Kocher, who is leading the huge-scale Microsoft-LinkedIn global Skills Initiative. But important as that large-scale L&D experiment is, it’s far from all Karen wanted to talk to us about; think of the Skills program as an appetiser for a Learning and Skills banquet that includes life/career and pay advise, as well as useful notes on credentialing and what transitioning to a ‘learn-it-all’ culture entails at company street level. Quite a woman. Quite a conversation. And quite a Workplace Story.

Are we kidding ourselves when it comes to Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging (DEIB)? There’s been a LOT of talk about it, after all: is it being matched by any real action? Is the action that’s happening even being driven by leadership, or is it somehow something we’re getting ground-level folks to do, kind of for free, along with everything else we need off them in the COVID crisis? Are there any numbers, what do they tell us—and are they any good? What does DEIB success look like… and what can I do to move the needle here? These are good, maybe even critical questions, for society in 2021. But we don’t know the answers—which is why we’re inviting you to come along with us on a journey to find them together. Welcome to Season 2 of ‘Workplace Stories’ from RedThread Research, which we have entitled, with some optimism, perhaps, ‘Integrating Inclusion:’ a series of conversations on this core HR and HR tech issue. And like Season 1, along the way we think we’re going to be hearing maybe just one or two stories from people on the DEIB front line that will inspire, inform and energize you, too, including from amazing guests like PTC’s Hallie Bregman and S&P Global’s Rachel Fichter. Because DEIB really is everyone’s problem—and everyone’s job.

We love data, and we think it needs to be at the heart of all HR, especially in DEIB. But like this week’s guest, global talent strategy and analytics leader Hallie Bregman, we also know that data really only comes alive if it is part of a narrative. “I’m not going to give you data,” Hallie tells her colleagues at major Boston-based IT firm, PTC. “I am totally driven by data, I eat, sleep and breathe it all day long. But I'm going to tell you a story, and then I'm going to help you build a strategy around that story.” Such a smart way to put it—and this is one smart lady with so much to say that’s useful about DEIB, people analytics, ONA, NLP and so much more. We knew Hallie would be a hugely important contributor to this first official episode of the new Season of ‘Workplace Stories;’ hope you agree—and find a way to use her insights to make your own DEIB ‘story’ a success too.

Are there three sets of people in Inclusion: the folks doing the ground-level work on DEIB, maybe the researchers way off in the academic stratosphere, and then the people actually affected by these issues on a day-to-day level in the workplace? If so, could we simplify this and remove a layer? If you think that’s a good idea, then listen today to someone who is doing all she can to fuse the first two roles there—Rachel Fichter, a PhD who also works for a Wall St financial analytics firm, S&P Global… but who sees herself in a fascinating new kind of role in HR and analytics: DEIB scholar-practitioner, helping her firm Integrate Inclusion while also diving into the literature on Belonging in the Columbia U stacks. So: quite a woman. And quite a DEIB thinker. You’re going to like this Workplace Story.

Sometimes you feel you’re in the eye of the hurricane: so much is happening in terms of our wider society in terms of changing expectations, changing ways of working, changing life choices. Add the potentially explosive compound called ‘Diversity’ into all this, and it can start to feel a little hot in here. But, advises this week’s special guest and DEIB and L&D expert practitioner Jesse Jackson, CLO for JPMorgan Chase with a special focus on the Wall St’s giant’s consumer community banking business: when it comes to getting DEIB right, it’s not heat you want: it’s light. This is a really fascinating chance to find out from a person deep in the midst of all the changes we’re talking about, but also deep in a blue-chip financial services firm that always has to see things in terms of achievable ROI. We’ll let you decide if you agree that’s what Jesse’s achieving: us, we’re hunkering down in the place where it’s always the most interesting… that hurricane’s eye. Because that's where change happens.

What’s it feel like when your identity is all about promoting Belonging and a global pandemic comes along that for a time completely wipes out your market, forcing you to lay off hundreds of valued colleagues? Perhaps more importantly: how do you navigate that crisis in a way that’s faithful to your purpose and DEIB commitments? The answer we hear today: with some vulnerability, authenticity, courage, transparency, compassion, empathy—and a dash of curiosity. Welcome to the world of Airbnb’s Director of Learning, Kate Shaw, who shares with us some fascinating insights into how DEIB’s being made to not just work but thrive at her company. Kate’s one of our favorite people, and we think she’ll soon be yours, too: after all, she’s someone fully dedicated to a mission of making work better for everybody. And if that isn’t what you need to make Belonging work… what would?

What if the ways you’re trying to measure the ground-level impact of all your DEIB work in your workplace environment are incomplete? That’s the possibly concerning warning from academic and author Professor Rob Cross--our guest this week, and the co-author this Summer of what we believe to be a highly important intervention that flags the importance of ONA, organizational network analysis, for any serious attempt to understand what the team feels and does day-to-day. But we got a lot more from our dialog than that, insightful as it was. We also hear some interesting findings about the growing strain on us all from the natural human desire to be helpful, which Rob warns translates into insane workloads. We must do something about this and design our work better to accommodate it, he believes, as collaboration is addictive, something we need to acknowledge—as well as figure out how the people, of all backgrounds, who are thriving are negotiating our new world of microstresses and DEIB opportunity. Heady stuff: you’re going to want to turn off Twitter for this one.

“Honestly, in order to make this a reality I believe HR needs more technologists and analytics professionals as a whole.” Now you might expect a RedThread-head to come out with a sentence like that--but it’s in fact from our awesome guest this week, Phil Willburn, Vice President, People Analytics, at HR tech firm Workday. But Phil also believes, as you’ll hear in this fascinating three-way chat between Stacia, Chris and Phil, that data, while absolutely the key ingredient to making DEIB real, isn’t the only thing you need to make the cake come out right; you also need to be able to tell a compelling story—and be able to listen to the stories of others. Maybe listen, really, for the first time ever. But, as Phil reminds us so well in this episode of ‘Integrating Inclusion’… you do have to start.

For ten tough years, the king of Ithaca tried to find his way back home from the war--and along the way, he had quite a few obstacles to face down. The good news is he got there in the end: and in a similar way, we think many HR practitioners out there also feel they are on a long journey, full of perils and set-backs and detours, but driven by a similar mission to get ‘home,’ when it comes to really making Skills a tractable thing for their organization’s own ‘Odyssey’ into the future. Hence the driving design principle for this, our third season of Workplace Stories, and the second dive we’ve taken into the wine-dark sea of Skills: that we can help our fellow voyagers by sharing the stories of adventurers, explorers and ambitious navigators just a few leagues ahead of us all in the water. To set sail, in this boat-side chat between Red Thread’s chief petty officers Stacia and Dani and our faithful Ship’s Carpenter Chris, we dip our figurative oars in the Mediterranean and set some possible destinations. Listen, at least Odysseus’ faithful dog Argos recognized him, even if no-one else did, when he finally got home; we are sure there’s a great pooch ready to jump on your lap when you make it, too. And her name’s Success.

Is today’s guest the epitome of a people analytics scholar practitioner? Well, let’s do the math: relevant PhD? Check. Six years figuring out how to interest Silicon Valley engineers to come work for an industrial firm by drawing up a whole new company-wide Skills matrix that actually reflected what needed to be done? Check. And working in academic contexts persuading quants that while data and machine learning are great, it’s those human skills that will actually help them most—as well as (and how awesome is this!), working out how to use data to build a more just world? Check! We’re so happy to finally get self-styled People Data Enthusiast Heather Whiteman on the show, now she’s at last fully unpacked in her new Seattle base (we tried for the first Skills season): and it was for sure worth the wait, as we get not just detail on practical ways to make Skills frameworks deliver, but also the message that people analytics aren’t to predict the future—they’re to change it. Monkey psychology’s loss definitely our gain, then.

A lot of people we talk to are hesitant about starting their Skills Odyssey. They’ve got a good reason: they feel there’s just too much ocean out there between them and getting to the good place of Ithaca/success. But if you don’t start somewhere, you won’t get anywhere, so you kind of have to dive in. That’s the view, at least, from our guest today, Tim Dickinson, Global Head of Learning Systems & Innovation at European life sciences firm Novartis, a global healthcare company based in Switzerland that provides solutions to address the evolving needs of patients worldwide—and which, fascinatingly, has made ‘Curiosity’ a core corporate value. A key clue on how to do that jumping: decide if you want to focus on ‘Skills’ in general or the ones the organization sees as critical right now. As Tim says himself, his job is all about improving learning and improve knowledge sharing through technology, and then driving that knowledge-sharing and Skills-building throughout the organization. Don’t know about you, but that sounds like a job we’d really want: and we think you do, too.

In L&D, we talk a lot about creating the conditions for learning: isn’t that kind of definitional about what we do? Well, maybe we need to tear up the rule book and start thinking a bit harder about what that means in a much more digital, much more automating, much more diverse, and much more unstable world than maybe we all got comfortable with. That’s certainly our read on what Vidya Krishnan, one of RedThread’s favorite learning thinkers and practitioners, is doing over at Scandinavian telco giant Ericsson. And, you’ll be relieved to learn, while Skills is absolutely the key she’s using to unlock some big doors there, marked things like ‘Future’ and ‘Becoming Your Own Career CEO,’ and data the rocket fuel, she says, maybe like you do, that it’s a journey she’s on… maybe, indeed, an Odyssey. But it’s one we can all start, she reassures us in this, one of our best conversations for a long time. Oh, one last thing: you might be wanting pizza near the end. Don’t worry, you can tell the boss it’s for Skills research.

Setting up this week’s conversation, Dani promises that this one’s a “must-listen for anyone who's trying to figure out how to make Skills work in their organization.” Bold claim? Not when you realize we’re talking about what a 200,000 person, multi-billion-dollar financial services leader is trying to do with Skills both operationally--and with the help of tech from HR system market leaders like Degreed and Workday. That’s the project as far as our guest, Christopher Funk, Senior Vice President - Talent and Performance Management Platforms over at Citi, is concerned, for sure. It’s a very honest, very detailed, and very open conversation from someone already a way across the seas of The Skills Odyssey; we invite you guys to decide if all that really does make it a “must-listen.” As Dani also says, we’ve all been in too many conversations where 45 minutes is spent arguing over if Skills are a skill or a competency or a capability or a trait or a characteristic; Mike’s got a useful answer for that one, too. So overall, we’re pretty sure Mike cashes the check.

Today’s guest, Mike Groesser, is not just a VP at his employer, Fidelity Investments. He’s also something called a Learning Squad Leader—terminology that may clue at least some of you that we’re dealing with an organization that’s embraced Agile pretty hard. But this isn’t a conversation about that interesting development methodology. It’s actually one (with many rewarding twists and turns) more about the main topic of the Season: Skills—and more specifically, what it looks like when you decide to pay its people more if they can prove they’ve built them, what that looks like at ground level, and most intriguingly, if they build in a non-linear fashion or not. Mike’s an excellent guest, deeply passionate but also very honest about what he’s seeing; definitely one for both the Skills thinker and the Skills practitioner. So: you.

“How you are able, as an organization, to reconfigure resources like Skills and have the ability to allocate the right talents in your organization at the right time-- I think it's also a competitive advantage.” So says our guest this week, Patrick Coolen, Global Head of People Analytics, HR intelligence & Organizational Design, and we don’t think many people would disagree with him. But how to allocate? Based in Amsterdam, Patrick is leading the charge on Skills at ABN AMRO, a large Dutch-headquartered bank, to do just that—make Skills a competitive resource for his enterprise—so he has some ideas and experience to share on what he and his team see as the answer. The result is one of our most interesting traveller’s tales so far on the Skills Odyssey, encompassing everything from pragmatics on how to start with people analytics, the usefulness of Emsi data, a good deal of Dutch common sense and a rather beguiling metaphor on, er, soup. Trust us: you’re going to go with it!

Well… we’re still not home. The fabled Ithaca of Skills nirvana is still somewhere in the distance. This journey we’re on—this Skills Odyssey—continues. But we still are getting help on the voyage from Dani, Stacia and Chris Pirie from The Learning Futures Group, who are going to share another set of conversations with metaphorical sailors, explorers and other mythical characters also trying to work out how to avoid the workplace Sirens, tired Cyclops ideas and unhelpful Circe tech that might not help us. This week, dive in yourself to get set up with what the trio of plucky HR and workplace practice thinkers see as the main themes of this, our second look at all things Skills as sponsored (again! Thank you!) by our friends as Visier and Degreed. We also get a catch-up on how RedThread as a business is building capability and acquiring momentum, as well as reflections on previous ‘Workplace Stories’ seasons. Delightfully, we also get some terrific business and life development book recommendations from all three. It’ll be nice to have some reading matter down here below deck.

“We really just almost assume that, self-evidently, Skills matter--and then went to try to build a Skills library. It is only then that we start to think… what for?” Talk for any length of time with this week’s ‘Skills Odyssey II’ guest, Sun Life’s Robert (Rob) Carlyle, and these kind of zingers just keep on coming through… along with solid thinking about why doing anything with Skills that isn’t ‘wholesale’ (think, ‘big’) and at scale is a waste of everyone’s time, why it really doesn’t matter if you want to say ‘competency’ versus ‘Skill,’ and many others. You get all this in this week’s in-depth conversation with a real Skills practitioner striving at enterprise level, as well as, heck, a book report on Homer as Tarantino and what the Odyssey actually can teach us all about careers and acquiring knowledge. Don’t say we never spoil you.

This week, it’s all about numbers, scale, and achievement. In terms of numbers, how about a Skills-based, AI-enhanced framework that is keeping 250,000 employees happy and appropriately paid? And which saves the company an estimated $100m per year, money avoided by avoiding expensive churn and not paying beyond market rate—even for scare capability? And as for the achievement, the spotlight in this episode is on Anshul Sheopuri, Vice President & CTO, Data & AI At ‘IBM Workforce,’ Big Blue’s immense global HR function, where he’s led the work on using Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, and lots of data to improve hiring, compensation and even DEIB policies across the company. So important is this idea of ‘Skills-for-pay’ and ‘Skills as currency’ that he sees it as a ‘silver thread’ unifying people processes and practices… which of course we soon correct to a ‘red thread’! We’ve been looking to meet with Anshul for a long while, and we’re glad we hung on in there, as this is an excellent conversation with a true subject matter expert who’s using tech to really make a bunch of positive change for his colleagues. A really interesting piece of best practice you could start looking at right away is using employee digital footprint to see what their Skills really are. Sadly, Stacia never got the AI help with tonight’s dinner she thought she’d get, but hey—you can’t have it all.

Manisha Singh is a leading voice in everything from HR technology to people analytics, AI ethics to doing practical work on the future of work. And as someone who built what may well have been one of the very first ever talent marketplaces during her years at global energy equipment giant Schneider Electric, she’s also got incredible street cred for any Skills discussion. If that wasn’t enough, her years moving through the HR ranks at places like Tata and AXA would also mark her out as someone worth a conversation with… but now she’s capping all of her achievements so far with impressive work at British-Swedish multinational pharmaceutical and biotechnology brand AstraZeneca. Where, among other things, she is quietly working away on doing her bit to design ‘a future that loves us all.’ A brilliant phrase, for sure. But what’s great about Manisha, who we’ve been wanting to compare Skills Odyssey notes with for soooo long, is that’s not just epic, Homeric poetry: she’s actually doing the steering and the navigating. Oh, and just for good measure, you’ll also hear why she thinks Skills could be the way we solve The Great Resignation. Oh yeah.

We came off this recording session thinking, Have we just literally seen the future of work? A world where how Skills has become the core to everything, and instead of performance management, we do performance enablement? And where the employee is the one that triggers the conversation, and salary is never just based on what I did last year but for the future of what I can do for you? And where the very praxis of making stuff is not about one company’s team coming together, but many actors and partners and even ‘employees,’ but in a very different sense of what that means now? You can tell we’re feeling it; you might even say we’ve been drinking some of the heady wines Odysseus plied the monstrous Cyclops with to enable he and his companions to escape its clutches. But like proper Greek heroes, we never let these spirits overpower us. Instead, we want to focus on the insights and best practice of what today’s guest, Guillermo Miranda, Digital Transformation Executive and CLO at Boeing, tells us about the future. A future that he and his team are building right now… and which, charmingly, perfectly, and hard-nosed business fittingly, involves cake decorators. We always knew we needed them: boy, how little we knew.

Deloitte is different. It’s different for, of course, its unique approach to solving customer problems, as well as its sheer size and scale. But in the context of a Skills Odyssey, it’s also pretty unique for having a) an ‘agency’ structure that makes it peculiarly receptive to new ways of organizing around Skills, and b) an openness to try new things. It’s also full, of course, of very smart people… we’d know, as both Stacia and Dani are alumni! But today’s guest, Chief Learning Officer of Deloitte’s US operation, Eric Dingler, isn’t interested in the past. In fact, he’s pretty critical about what Deloitte (and the rest of us in L&D) didn’t get right historically (“a talent/career model-level role hasn't allowed us to be as agile as we need to be and enable our organization to be as agile”) around career development. Instead, he’s very, very much about the future. In our discussion, you’ll see that for yourself as we cover a wide range of topics, from what it’s like to be in the CLO cockpit for a 145,000 person end of a half million-strong people organization, the central importance of agility as the lens Deloitte wants to see things through going forward, the role of data and analytics—even how he knows what L&D does really can touch so many people, making a better world for us all. We’re really glad we spoke to this fellow Skills Odyssey voyager; we suspect you will be, too.

Something’s happened to this week’s guest, Meredith Wellard. And it’s actually something quite wonderful; you can hear it in her voice, animating and energizing her. It’s a mix of excitement at possibility--and almost relief that a lot of checks she’s been trying to cash all her years in HR, L&D and talent management can finally be honored. Her secret? It’s the immediate impact on her organization, Deutsche Post DHL Group (she’s an Australian living and working in Bonn, Germany), she’s getting from a new machine learning and data analytics-powered approach to Skills. She and her team—as you’ll learn over the sound of Homer’s ‘wine-dark sea’ and your oars ,as you race ahead on this leg of our almost-concluded Skills Odyssey—have used that tech to create a unique career marketplace. You’ll soon know why she wants to call it that instead of a ‘Skills’ one) that will eventually be the friendly, automated, and incredibly well-informed training and new job (or even new career path) digital assistant for all of its half million global workforce. No wonder she’s inspired: and we think you soon will be as well.

In the Ancient Greece of Homeric times and mores, the concept of gifting, or gift-friendship, ξενία (‘xenia’) was central. Assuming your fellow Greeks would observe xenia allowed you to travel in the hope you’d be good for food and shelter for the night from strangers on your Odyssey; in exchange, travelers would leave a parting gift in thanks. At many points in The Odyssey, we see xenia in action, like when Eumaeus the Swineherd shows it to the disguised Odysseus, noting guests always come under the protection of Zeus. Well, we’ve reached the end of our own Skills Odyssey here, and so we thought it appropriate to give you, our fellow travellers, some xenia back: and it’s in the delightful shape of this bonus episode with our great final conversation with a CLO making experiments and achieving early results with a new approach to Skills, GE Healthcare’s very honest and informed David Sperl. It’s a conversation that covers his use of machine learning and analytics—again, underlining how key these practices are now in serious HR—as well as how dealing with challenges like replacing a zoo of older HR IT with one new global replacement just as is his division is being divested by its parent. He does a great job sharing learnings and best practice; it’s a bit of xenia in its own right—as Dani says in the episode, “That's one of the things that I really like about HR: if once you solve the problem, you can share that with other people, because it's going to work different in their organizations anyway.” And as she goes on to say, in this Odyssey we've seen tons of people being very honest and transparent with us about what they're doing—which is xenia all of us can treasure. Please also note we have yet another gift to close the Season, though, which you will hear about right at the beginning. Now it’s time to head back to shore--but we’ll be back very soon with more things to inform, help and challenge you.

We've completed one sort of Odyssey (at least for now). Now, it's time for an Adventure. That's the message from our customary opening new Workplace Stories from RedThread Research Season scene-setter this week, where the guys reveal that our next set of engagements and learning from experts and practitioners in the world of HR and the future of work is the current supernova-hot topic of Hybrid Work.

If you really are just out of your COVID bunker, we refer, of course, to the idea of how we might re-orient ourselves to a workplace where employee expectations about ‘presenteeism’ have changed a lot… whether they have that much really for employers, well—let's see. Also covered: how RedThread's working with its team and clients to make our own changes to support Hybrid.

To set us up, a review of how powerful employees are right now on their side of their see-saw (for how long), some Intriguing guest names get dropped, starting with this week’s co-dropping Episode 1, well-known HR Scholar and author John Boudreau, how this Season links surprisingly quickly with previous Workplace Stories surveys, and expected recurrent themes like the role both human diversity tech will play in all this as it unfolds.

There's even a gag or two (you're going to love the one about printers), all putting us in the perfect mindset for the John episode deep Hybrid Work conceptual dive. Warning: the episode contains shocking information about certification. Still not sure Chris has recovered.

Is it time to retire the concept of a job? Is it holding us all back—especially if we really want to make Hybrid Work a success? That’s a new, and we think highly useful, concept from today’s guest, author, academic and futurist John Boudreau. In the episode, John tells us how we want to move away from thinking about work as one job and job holder at a time and one degree at a time, to a system that allows the parts to freely connect, so tasks and projects can connect to atomized or deconstructed worker capabilities like Skills, which can be gained through an atomized set of things like experiences, partial degrees or credentials. John—a well-known HR scholar who’s Professor Emeritus of Management and Organization and a Senior Research Scientist with the Center for Effective Organizations at the Marshall School of Business, University of Southern California—says his thinking here is that we’ve been using the wrong unit of analysis in ‘the job,’ and that a new operating system of work is needed that should be instead be based on deconstructed elements of a role in terms of tasks rather than being based primarily on the job as the atomic unit of HR analysis. As you’re about to find, this is all set forth in his new book with fellow researcher Ravin Jesuthasan, Work Without Jobs, whose top concepts we try and explore, like what it might be like to ‘melt’ a job down to see what it’s made of and who could do bits of it instead, as well as a very new way of thinking about ice cubes. We’re so honored John agreed to be our lead-off guest for the Season, as we think it identifies many key themes and frees up some real opportunities for fresh Hybrid Work thinking we’ll all find useful. Just be careful you don’t melt while listening.

Today, we hear from an HR leader at the absolute heart of the Hybrid evolution, Dawn Klinghoffer, Vice President of the HR Business Insights team at Microsoft. Dawn’s really helping set the agenda of what gets called in the show the ‘Pandora’s Box’ of workplace change the pandemic is sparking--which she sees, not as a source of trouble and confusion, as in the Greek myth, but as a way to get energy, meaning and empowerment placed at the center of every employee’s experience. Pandora-like, though, the changes Dawn wants to see can spark fear and disruption--fears which she discusses frankly and openly, and which she also so brilliantly encapsulated in a recent landmark HBR piece. We also hear about her fresh thinking on people analytics, data, and the employee-manager relationship, as well as practical tips on making Hybrid start working in your environment. To us—and, we think, by the end of this 56-plus minutes—Dawn's work here is a great example of HR is really for: to help us all be the best humans we can be. Worth your time.

If there’s one word that sums up this week’s episode, it’s conscious listening. Yes, that’s two. But it’s actually the on-ramp to the real word we mean, and which is fast emerging as the theme of this Season 5 of Workplace Stories as it evolves: intentionality. That’s because our guest--RJ Milnor, Global Head of People Analytics and Chief People Data Officer at Uber--says it was conscious listening and thinking by he and his team about the WHY of his company was asking people to work for them, as opposed to where, that helped him craft a working Hybrid Work policy that works. Which, of course, is also another way of describing being intentional about RTO. We love RJ’s deep-thinking approach to these big questions--his commitment to listening to the people he’s trying to help, his rigor around tools and data, his willingness to experiment and flex. And we think you will too--plus get some clues about how to start the road to unlocking the Hybrid Work puzzle box from today. Hint: get conscious listening… and then get intentional.

This week’s guest is Michael Arena, who brings the unique perspective of leading talent development and management for not just major New Economy global brands like Amazon Web Services, but also stalwart Old Economy blue chips like General Motors and Bank of America. Along the way, he’s also done serious research and training in network analysis and the power of social science to truly understand what’s happening with today’s corporations. That combination of frontline management and crisis response and a lens for viewing all our recent challenges in people practices, gives him, we’d argue, the right to be heard on what he thinks is really happening out there for both individuals (and especially a voice often left out of the Future of Work conversation, the leader) and teams as we progress through what he jokes is both, Dickens-wise, ‘the best and the worst’ times to be in work right now. If you’re still sceptical, a few minutes on his evidence of bridging and bonding social capital and its impact on the Hybrid Workspace we’re seeing evolve around us will change your mind: and we say that as Data ‘Til I Die! converts. Social capital is a tool, we predict, that you’ll soon be using as much as Michael is in his new role in Connected Commons.

In February last year, this week’s guest, Phil Rhodes, Head of Learning & Leadership Development at WM--which you may now better as Waste Management, and who are the very helpful people who handled your garbage all the way through Lockdown—was not long in post when his suggestion of a coaching program was met with the observation, ‘Phil, trash companies don’t do coaching.’ Well, maybe they should all start, as the first rollout got a 96% approval rating with either ‘life-changing’ or ‘valuable’ level ratings. And as you’ll discover on this episode, mentoring and coaching, at multiple levels, for both truck driver and regional manager, emerged as a transformational tool for the company. Was it just a way to get through the pandemic, or perhaps the key way Hybrid can be made to land for everyone? We’ll make you listen to the episode to get the answer—but you’ll not hate us for that, as along the way you’ll get so much great insight on everything from the history of Southern Africa to new ways of thinking about effective frontline worker support. Warning: no, they didn’t train new folks how to drive the big vehicles online. At least… tune in to find out more!

In this, our final episode for the Adventures in Hybrid Work Season, we end strong with a great sit-down with people analytics innovator and Head of Talent Analytics & Transformation at Panasonic USA, Lydia Wu. It’s the right last conversation for now on this important topic, we think, as Lydia gives us so much frontline reporting on the key issues we’ve identified in our conversations, like the importance of data and really listening to what your workforce actually wants in terms of return to office instead of what you think they want, which we’ve heard from others—but also topics we maybe didn’t get so much on, like the importance of the DEIB factor in Hybrid, and what we should be doing for managers in all this, not just the main employee base. The fact that Panasonic—which really isn’t just ‘the microwave people’—has such a wide spread of job roles, both desked and deskless, is also really important to think about. It all matters—and as Dani says in the episode, maybe it’s time to stop saying ‘Hybrid Work,’ because now it’s all now just… what Work is?

We start our new S6 of Workplace Stories with an overview of the theme of the Season, how it links to the previous five, then talk to Liz Wiseman, CEO of the Wiseman Group and author of New York Times bestseller about how leaders can build connections to and between people, and more broadly to the organization, 'Multipliers.' As we hear, Liz’s purpose is to make work better for everyone by creating organizations where great leaders multiply intelligence, rather than draining it from the organization. What inspires Liz is working with and watching senior leaders to learn what good leadership looks like, and how anyone can be a smart leader that doesn’t shut down smarts of others. We then hear her views on how at present, many organizations are in the process of trying to recover from a period of enormous disconnection. Now, in a world of Hybrid and Remote Working, what must leaders do to build and facilitate connection? This is essential in creating a sense of purpose and community, both in and out of the organization, and to help leaders need to provide context for people’s work. For Liz, this has to be about explaining what the impact of work is, and how it connects with wider purpose, as without this, people can’t feel a sense of fulfilment in their work. She also shares her view on how people don’t want to be managed in general, they want to be led. Rather than doing a job, leaders are people who see what needs to be done. This is important in the context of the Great Resignation – employees must feel connected and a sense of purpose even if removed from their workplace and work friends. Finally, she offers practical ways to start The Great Reconnection.

For our second conversation about The Great Reconnection, we sat down with Matt Gosney, Vice President, Organizational Development at UCHealth, a major Denver-based healthcare provider that’s grown rapidly in the past few years. To make that growth work, the organization has been consciously doing as much as it can to enable connection and growth. We wanted to know more, so got Matt on to hear why connection and growth are now seen as critical to UC Health's employment value proposition, and also a significantly contributor to recruiting and retention. We also talk about how some of UC Health's previous talent processes, especially performance management, weren’t really helping on the connection part, and what Matt and his team did about it. A powerful new concept that’s proving really helpful is supporting managers to have what UCHealth calls ‘career conversations’ with every single employee has unleashed a tidal wave of connection, engagement, and contribution. An unintended but very welcome consequences of that work have been a dramatic improvement in talent pipeline diversity and a more organic (and thus, successful) approach to DEIB. We conclude with a story about lifetime-long transferrable skills that nearly wraps one of our most fun yet also thoughtful conversations for a while. The one key quote? “Connection is a baseline antecedent to progress and delivery of results.” Sounds bang on to us.

Based out of San Francisco, Airtable is a fast-growing software product company with a mission to democratize software creation. It says it’s doing that by enabling anyone to build the tools that meet their needs, but is that focus on openness and collaboration talk or walk?

In this next debate on how to make reconnecting real, we find out from a great conversation with the company’s Global Talent Development Leader, Jessica Amortegui, who has a lot to say about walking the walk—from the way her company is really taking on the problem of connection at the individual, human level, but also how to better facilitate connecting with others on a one-on-one, team, and entire organizational level.

Even more interestingly; that happens on both the virtual (90% of her fellow ‘Airtablets’ joined during the pandemic) but also on the physical level—and as you’ll also hear, gets instantiated with well-thought-out and battle-tested role tools and exercises, which we’re delighted to say some of which Jess has shared with listeners. She also has some very useful things to say about the demonstrable value of all this even the most results-focused managers and connection ‘skeptics’ find persuasive.

Finally, we loved her persuading us about the importance of connection in the flow of one's day-to-day work—making connecting not some special thing that you do in parallel but can be structured to be part of any meeting if you want it to be. All in all, so many great soundbites—but if you want just one, how about, “The thing I would love to switch about our workplaces is how many of us end the day exhausted and feeling de-energized. Why does it have to be that way?” Abso-tootle!

This week we sat down with Gretchen Murphy, CHRO of data center services specialist Service Express, to hear how only ever adding people who fit your culture but then constantly supporting them through conscious Reconnecting techniques really delivers.

With a unique combination of experience across the worlds of the military, non-profit, government and commercial sector, mobile health entrepreneur Michael Madon shares what years of trying to make connection happen in organizations has taught him.

It’s our special pleasure to share a conversation with renowned HR strategist Dave Ulrich around the importance of Connection and the practical steps leaders need to be making now to make it happen.

In this episode, CLO at online education leader Udemy Melissa Daimler—who recently published a new book on making workplace reconnection work, ‘ReCulturing’—sits down with Chris and Stacia to detail practical steps on making our new complex workplaces human once again.

For leadership expert and author Ashley Goodall, we get the employee experience consistently wrong because we just don’t want to look at the way humans really are out-of-the-box. Is he right?

A scene-setter for our latest set of Workplace Stories—a deep dive into where we really are with EX right now.

For Vice President of Learning and Leadership at Walmart Brandon Carson, the systems we put in place ARE the employee experience. And if we want to change that, we need to help not just the cognitive worker, but that often-neglected other constituency in the EX debate—their physical worker equivalents.

Former Goldman CPO Dane Holmes wants to remind us all of a huge truth: processes may end—but people don’t (you don’t stop learning once you’ve completed your module). So why don’t we look at Employee Experience that way?

If Meta wants us all to work at least some of the time in a Metaverse, it probably wants to figure out what the right Employee Experience is to get there. Kelly Monahan's making sure that happens.

Jessica Lee, SVP of Global Talent Development at Marriott International & The Ritz-Carlton Leadership Center, shares her insights into how to create a consistent and supportive EX across the hotel giant’s 30-plus brands.

Phil Willburn—our Season Sponsor Workday’s Vice President, People Analytics—makes a very welcome second appearance on ‘Workplace Stories,’ where he shares genuinely useful EX best practice. Does he have the definitive answer to our question, Evolution or Revolution? Listen to decide.

A scene-setter for our latest set of Workplace Stories—listen as we focus on what it actually means to be a manager in 2023.

Learn more

End-of-Season Webinar

Don't miss our season recap, where we will summarize key themes, share critical insights and anecdotes, and identify our questions on how to make managing more manageable.

Register today

Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK – Creating Meaningful Change by Clint Kofford

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Want full access to the episode's transcript? Try our RTR membership with a 7-day trial. Listen to our top episodes, explore cutting-edge research, attend exclusive member-only events, and share with a top-notch cohort community of industry leaders and peers. Take it for a spin!

Clint Kofford, the Vice President of Talent with National Veterinary Associates, has a unique perspective on what it means to be a leader in today’s changing landscape. With extensive experience in numerous multinational companies, Clint is a thought leader in this space. His fascinating viewpoints caused us both to stop and think and even changed our minds about certain issues. Press play to hear what they are and to see if his views might broaden your perspective.

Learn more

End-of-Season Webinar

Don't miss our season recap, where we will summarize key themes, share critical insights and anecdotes, and identify our questions on how to make managing more manageable.

Register today


Connect with Clint Kofford

• Connect with Clint on LinkedIn
• BOOK - Creating Meaningful Change by Clint Kofford

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Want full access to the episode's transcript? Try our RTR membership with a 7-day trial. Listen to our top episodes, explore cutting-edge research, attend exclusive member-only events, and share with a top-notch cohort community of industry leaders and peers. Take it for a spin!

Mary brings years of experience to Morningstar and on this episode of Workplace Stories, she explains how the manager and employee experiences are tied together. As you listen, you’ll be fascinated by the way that Morningstar conducted research to identify and define concrete sentiments that would improve the employee experience.

Learn More

End-of-Season Webinar

Don't miss our season recap, where we will summarize key themes, share critical insights and anecdotes, and identify our questions on how to make managing more manageable.

Register today


Connect with Mary Slaughter

• Mary on LinkedIn
• Morningstar

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

In this conversation, we speak to Sara Reed, Vice President of People and Talent at Western Governors University. We discuss what struck her about what senior leadership is doing to support managers within her organization, how building connections and community actually helps to support accountability, and why it is important to analyze the reasons that people choose to lead.

Learn more

End-of-Season Webinar

Don't miss our season recap, where we will summarize key themes, share critical insights and anecdotes, and identify our questions on how to make managing more manageable.

Register today

Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK - The Waymakers Tara J. Frank
• BOOK - Dear Work: Something Has to Change by Sara Ross
• BOOK - Practical Magic by Alice Hoffman
• BOOK SERIES - The Outlanders by Diana Gabaldon
• Brene Brown

Connect with Sara Reed

• Sara Reed on LinkedIn
• Western Governors University

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Want full access to the episode's transcript? Try our RTR membership with a 7-day trial. Listen to our top episodes, explore cutting-edge research, attend exclusive member-only events, and share with a top-notch cohort community of industry leaders and peers. Take it for a spin!

On this episode of Workplace Stories, Affirm’s Feedback and Development Lead, Kaitlyn Mathews, describes how her organization uses its data to drive changes within the company. Kaitlyn also touches on their delivery systems, the HR relationship with managers, using tech to strategize, and how she uses her role to help others realize their capabilities.

Learn more

End-of-Season Webinar

Don't miss our season recap, where we will summarize key themes, share critical insights and anecdotes, and identify our questions on how to make managing more manageable.

Register today


Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK - Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink

Connect with Kaitlyn Mathews

• Kaitlyn Mathews on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Want full access to the episode's transcript? Try our RTR membership with a 7-day trial. Listen to our top episodes, explore cutting-edge research, attend exclusive member-only events, and share with a top-notch cohort community of industry leaders and peers. Take it for a spin!

In this episode of Workplace Stories we talked to Moderna’s Noah Rabinowitz and Nkiruka Ogbuchiekwe. We explore ways that managers and other leaders can question conventionality by recognizing and thinking through false dichotomies. Listen in to hear how Moderna is building its systems by putting its company culture first and by constantly questioning traditional ways of doing things.


Learn more


End-of-Season Webinar

Don't miss our season recap, where we will summarize key themes, share critical insights and anecdotes, and identify our questions on how to make managing more manageable.

Register today


Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK - Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
• BOOK - Night by Elie Wiesel
• BOOK - Professionalizing Leadership by Barbara Kellerman
• Check out season 0 - Is Purpose Working?
• RedThread's Purpose Research

Connect with Noah Rabinowitz and Nkiruka Ogbuchiekwe

• Noah on LinkedIn
• Nkiruka on LinkedIn
• Moderna

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Want full access to the episode's transcript? Try our RTR membership with a 7-day trial. Listen to our top episodes, explore cutting-edge research, attend exclusive member-only events, and share with a top-notch cohort community of industry leaders and peers. Take it for a spin!

A lot has changed for managers and organizations over the last three years. So, what can be done to successfully navigate those changes so that managers can be successful and organizations can continue to thrive?

The American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) is designing a new framework for their managers to help them better understand what they can be doing to intentionally lead their staff.

This inspiring conversation with Paula Matthews from AAFP is a fantastic way to wrap up our Making Managing Manageable series.

If you are just wrapping up season eight, now is a great time to subscribe to the podcast. You can get even more RedThread content by joining our membership community. Try it out for free for seven days to see what we’re all about!You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• The rapid-fire questions [5:32]
• Paula’s role at AAFP [9:17]
• What has changed for managers over the last three years [10:10]
• What managers will return to [14:00]
• What sets good managers and not-so-good managers apart [15:40]
• Why managers are struggling today [18:24]
• AAFP’s new manager framework [20:20]
• How they implement their training framework [26:25]
• How to empower employees to take control of their tasks [27:33]
• The lightning round questions [34:19]
• The role of leadership development [35:45]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Season 0 - Is Purpose Working?

Connect with Paula Matthews

• AAFP

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Welcome back to our ninth season! We are excited about these upcoming episodes. In this season, Stacia and I focus on the frontline by discussing frontline workers with thought leaders from many organizations across various industries.

Frontline workers have typically been a part of the workforce that has been swept under the rug, but during the pandemic, they were thrust to the forefront of people’s minds.

In this season, we’ll discuss how to define a frontline worker, how to lead them, how to engage with them, and how to help them plan their career path.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Why we chose this topic for our 9th season [2:32]
• What frontline workers are [3:38]
• What has shifted for frontline workers [8:10]
• Themes of this season [10:10]
• What we’re looking forward to learning [13:12]
• How this season aligns with our research [16:26]

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Frontline workers can have an outsized influence on the success of an organization. They are often the only interface our customers have with a brand. At RedThread Research, we have been diving into how to support frontline workers more holistically which is why this season we are focusing on the unique challenges that frontline workers face. We’ll also explore the changes organizations are making to empower them, as well as the good things happening on the frontline and how organizations can adapt those practices more broadly.In this episode, we welcome Steve Hunt from SAP. Steve has a unique perspective based on his work as an organizational psychologist in the technology space. This discussion was a fantastic way to open the conversation and sets the bar high for the rest of the season. Don’t miss it; press play now to listen.

Connect with Steve Hunt

• Steve on LinkedIn
• BOOK - Talent Tectonics by Steve Hunt

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Frontline workers face unique challenges so organizations are making changes to empower them. On this season of Workplace Stories, we’re exploring the unique challenges and positive situations happening on the frontline.

On this episode, we chat with Tabatha Cronin to learn how Cargill is supporting its massive frontline labor force. Listen in to learn how Cargill dug in to understand the motivations driving their employees. You won’t want to miss how this changed the way the company approached its solutions.


Resources & People Mentioned

• ReThinking - Adam Grant’s podcast
• BOOK - Think Again by Adam Grant
• BOOK - Never Waste a Crisis by Anne Harbison

Connect with Tabatha Cronin

• Tabatha on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Improving the employee experience starts with data. Rotana’s Andrew Wolhunter understands that and uses Rotana’s qualitative data to retain frontline workers in a competitive market.

Andrew has an enthusiasm and infectious energy that he not only shares with his coworkers at Rotana, but he also shares this excitement with us on today’s episode. Listen in to learn how Andrew is using data to lead the change in the employee experience at Rotana.


Connect with Andrew Wolhunter

• Andrew on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

We’re all humans, so the needs of workers are similar across the board. John Brothers has learned this from his time as VP of Talent at Acuity.

On today’s episode of Workplace Stories, John recounts his experience working through Acuity’s cultural and business mindset shift and how that has affected the frontline workforce and beyond.


Connect with John Brothers

• John on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

What happens when a mechanical engineer tackles an L&D problem? A completely redesigned learning environment.

On this episode of Workplace Stories, we interview General Mills’ Valerie Digman. Valerie describes how she helped solve a frontline training problem and improved efficiency by 5%.

If you’re interested in improving efficiency and rethinking traditional training methods, you won’t want to miss this interview. Press play to learn from Valerie’s experience at General Mills.
You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• The work she does [4:32]
• The difference between [6:15]
• Problem-solving [9:48]
• Process of problem-solving [15:28]
• Lightning round [21:06]
• Strategy to gain 5% in efficiency [23:03]
• What they learned [29:38]
• Their biggest challenges [30:48]
• How to apply more broadly [32:52]
• Working with union vs nonunion [36:46]
• What’s next [39:25]
• Resources for senior leaders [41;50]
• Valerie’s biggest learning experience [43:48]
• Why Valerie does what she does [45:10]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Axonify

Connect with Valerie Digman

• Valerie Digman on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Peter Tulumello is changing the culture at one of Canada’s largest grocery retailers. As a grocery chain, Sobeys has a large segment of frontline workers and with it, their own unique pain points.

To understand the problems that the frontline faces, Peter recognized that he needed to get into the stores to understand frontline workers’ day-to-day roles. Listen to this interview to hear how Peter identified major problems and came up with valuable solutions.


Connect with Peter Tulumello

• Peter on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

The importance of creating skills-based organizations is no longer a theoretical discussion: it’s now a practical reality. To ensure that businesses reach their desired outcomes, it is necessary to ensure that their workforce has the skills needed to get the job done.

Brian Richardson and Brian Hackett are deeply entrenched in helping business leaders discuss and develop the skills initiatives needed to improve their organizations’ metrics.

In this in-the-weeds discussion, we learn from both Brians’ breadth of experience to hear what it takes for businesses to bring skill building to the forefront.
Connect with Brian Hackett and Brian Richardson

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

The world of skills is evolving rapidly thanks to technology and data which is why we are devoting yet another season to the skills odyssey. In these opening arguments, you’ll hear how we’ll shape the season, why we’re focusing on skills again, who you can expect to listen to, and what we are most looking forward to. Press play to start a new season of Workplace Stories.

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Megan Bickle is the Director of Culture, Employee Engagement and Employee Listening at Western Digital. In Megan’s experience, roles can be viewed as a collection of skills. Viewing roles this way allows organizations to be more responsive to the evolving needs of the business in terms of the skills needed for development and hiring. Megan believes that job architecture is essential to becoming a skills-based organization. Skills were a part of their overall integrated talent management strategy, infused throughout the organization. Capability models and job structures were built in tandem. In this conversation, Megan shares her experience building a skills-based organization as the Global Talent Management and Organizational Development Leader at GE Digital.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Learning more about Megan Bickle [4:45]
• What a skills-based organization is [6:03]
• Why job architecture is important in skills-based organizations [9:04]
• How a capabilities-based architecture works in practice [18:06]
• Accounting for the evolution of the skills themselves [22:13]
• How learning/development dovetails into talent practices [24:34]
• Managing the ownership of the architecture [28:19]
• The lightning round [33:07]
• How the skills effort evolves over time/lessons learned [36:48]
• How people analytics were involved in the process [39:30]
• The strategy for assessing employee skills [42:37]
• Why Megan does the work she does [48:32]

Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK - Good to Great by Jim Collins

Connect with Megan Bickle

• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Shannon Custard—the Global Competence Development Manager at Ingka Group—is responsible for leading their global learning organization consisting of over 177,000 workers across 30+ countries globally.

As they began the transition from a competence-based to a skills-based organization, Shannon wanted to focus first and foremost on frontline populations. They believe that frontline population learning equity is important and often neglected. So they focused on solving the skills problems for the frontline employees to then extrapolate to the corporate population.

Through the process, they almost completely scrapped and redesigned their onboarding process to make sure the frontline team members had the skills necessary to be successful. When you help people reach success soon, it makes an impact.

In this conversation, Shannon shares more about the process of transitioning to a skills-based organization, why the Ingka Group believes it’s important, and the impact it’s making on their frontline population.

Resources & People Mentioned

• The Future of Jobs Report 2023
• IKEA

Connect with Shannon Custard

• Ingka Group
• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Transitioning a large company like Hewlett Packard Enterprise (HPE) to a skills-based organization could be a daunting task. That’s why focusing on scope and purpose was an important place to start for Vandana Bhagtani and Kaye Slay. In this conversation, Vandana—The Director of Technical Talent Management—and Kaye—The User Experience and Adoption Lead for Talent and Learning Systems—share how they’ve worked together to develop a strategy for transitioning HPE to a skills-based organization. They also share why they chose to focus on a particular group and narrowed their scope further to talent acquisition and people development (all the while leveraging technology and AI). They’re at the start of their journey and will evolve and develop as they transition to a skills-based organization.



Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

According to Yelena Mammadova, Ed.D—the Associate Director of Learning, Skills Transformation Initiative at McKinsey—McKinsey seeks to bring impact to clients and create an organization where they attract, excite, and retain exceptional people. The primary goal of her department is to accelerate talent development. Yelena strives to connect human development and technology in her role. She is one our first guests who’s talked about generative AI and how it’s embedded into their skills effort. They’re using AI to connect and map skills information.

Secondly, they’re integrating skills with their people analytics teams. They’re starting small and experimenting. Most organizations build skills models around the job architecture currently in place. McKinsey is taking a different approach. They’re developing assessments for skills so they know how to organize the people around the work they have.

Learn more about their unique approach and their utilization of generative AI to father and efficiently utilize skills data in this conversation.

Jennifer Rogers is the Executive Officer in the Learning Technology Standards Committee at the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), which has 427,000+ members in over 190 countries. The IEEE is the world’s largest trade organization and the professional home for engineering and technology communities worldwide. Jennifer is an unrelenting advocate for the potential that exists in others, which is why she’s a perfect fit at IEEE. IEEE is working together to figure out skills across an industry. They’re also focused on skills development and education at all levels through college and a professional career. In this conversation, Jennifer shares what a skills-based organization looks like, how they organize and validate skills, and how their approach focuses on both the present and future.

Welcome to the newest season of Workplace Stories. It will come as no surprise that we’re devoting season 11 to continuing our conversation around skills. Why? Because there are still questions to be answered. In these opening arguments, we’ll share the questions we’re being asked, what we’re looking forward to, and we’ll give you a sneak-peak of some of the amazing guests we’ll be having conversations with.



Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

According to Gina Jeneroux, company culture sets the foundation for skills readiness. If a company culture isn’t supportive of innovation and creativity, is it ready to support an initiative to focus on skills? Skills should be infused into everything you do in your organization and supported from the top down. Gina has spent almost 40 years in the financial services and learning industries. She spent the last few years running BMO’s corporate university and serving as Chief Learning Officer. In this conversation, she shares why a focus on skills is necessary, why company culture plays an important role, and how to get buy-in from company leadership.You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

When Oliver (Ollie) Drury joined Booking.com, they dove into digital transformation by simplifying their tech stack—and reducing variables—using a middleware to stitch everything together. That enabled them to have a simpler set of variables from which to create their skills ecosystem. Their driving goal was to solve skills for the entire organization. In this conversation, Ollie shares how they’re working to accomplish a skills-based transformation by first focusing on digital transformation.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Join the RedThread Research Community [5:01]
• Learn more about Ollie Drury and his work [5:59]
• Why they’re creating a skills-based organization [7:09]
• Why they focused on digital transformation first [8:00]
• How they’re building for reversibility [18:04]
• Major obstacles they’ve overcome [24:08]
• How they’re measuring effectiveness [26:08]
• The lightning round [27:58]
• Who leads skills at Booking.com? [34:29]
• Why employees own the skills data [38:05]
• How culture impacts the journey to skills [42:38]
• Steering away from the reward use case [47:53]
• The biggest thing Ollie’s learned [49:35]
• Why Ollie is passionate about this work [50:22]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Join the RedThread Research Community
• MuleSoft
• Tech Off
• Workday
• Gloat
• Neilsoft
• Crunchr
• BOOK: Work without Jobs
• BOOK: Inspired
• BOOK: Hidden Potential
• BOOK: The Technology Fallacy

Connect with Oliver Drury

• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

GSK is a global biopharma company with a purpose to unite science, technology, and talent to get ahead of disease together. They aim to positively impact the health of 2.5 billion people by the end of 2030.

In her role as the VP of People Data & Analytics, Angela is responsible for generating value from their people data. She has the opportunity to shape thinking and inform strategy. Her job is to translate skills so that everyone can do what they need to with the data.

She shares more about GSK’s scientific approach, how they’re using AI to gather information, and how skills verification ties in. Don’t miss this fascinating conversation.

Sandra Loughlin is the Chief Learning Officer and the Global Head of Talent Enablement and Transformation at EPAM, a software engineering and consulting firm. Unlike many of the organizations we’ve spoken about, EPAM has been on a skills journey since its inception over 30 years ago. Building a skills-based organization has been the backbone of everything they do. In this conversation, Sandra shares why the juice is indeed “Worth the squeeze.”

How do we define work and the skills needed to do the work? The way we view and assess skills is often through assessing and appraising someone’s output. But the problem is that most organizations aren’t capturing the right data and using it to gain insight.

According to Matt Donovan—the Chief Learning and Innovation Officer at GP Strategies—Job descriptions and skills in general describe the baseline. They are not what makes someone great at what they do. 

So how do we define the work and the skills needed to do the work? How can we capture a high-performer’s secret sauce? What are they doing that’s making it a successful experience versus what’s written in the job description?

We dive into a fascinating conversation about where we are now, how AI is going to both help and disrupt organizations, and what the future of skills assessment could look like. 

“Skills are like oxygen, invisible but necessary.” 

This mindset shift is the brainchild of Vidya Krishnan, the Chief Learning Officer, and Peter Sheppard, the Head of the Global L&D Ecosystem at Ericsson.

Much of their job is identifying the oxygen and making it visible so they can do something with it. To do this, they’re taking a top-down and bottom-up approach. They’ve worked with senior leadership to define seven key skills they think everyone in the organization needs. They also work with the job leaders who own the skills to make sure their skills taxonomy is continuously updated.

Vidya and Peter are passionate about what they do. They’re working tirelessly to systemize learning to take care of and serve the individual. Because, ultimately, systems-first means people-first.

The mission of Microsoft is to empower every person in every organization to achieve more. An enterprise-wide skills focus is one way they’re fulfilling their mission.

It’s about moving beyond job titles and fixed roles to give freedom and flexibility to apply skills and expertise where they matter the most. And it’s all in service of creating an environment where growing one’s career is the top reason to join and stay at Microsoft.

They’re using human verification to give the individual control over the data that’s included, who it’s shared with, and how it’s shared.

Shweta Srivastava and John Mighell share how Microsoft is implementing skills on a large scale in this fascinating conversation.

Ashley Goodall has spent 20 years in various roles in HR, covering everything from performance management to leadership. He spent six years at Cisco as the SVP of HR. He left Cisco to write his book, “The Problem with Change,” which was just released. In it, he addresses the problems that accompany change. 

To write his book, Ashley interviewed people around the world, asking them to tell their stories of organizational change. Many people told miserable stories, stories of unending change propelled by mergers, new leadership, new strategies, and much more—much of it unnecessary. What was the result?

People were struggling to do their jobs because of the constant change. Yet organizations are rewarding leaders to do things that make it hard for their employees to do their work! That’s a problem, right? So, what should we do instead?

We have to understand the conditions of human performance to understand how we can “do” change better. Ashley begins to dissect that complicated yet fascinating topic in this episode of Workplace Stories.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Join the RedThread Community [1:34]
• Why you should listen to Ashley Goodall [4:49] 
• What is the problem with change? [7:09]
• Why Ashley wrote another book about change [10:34]
• The problems that accompany change [12:45] 
• Looking at meaning and purpose differently [18:53] 
• The story of Alexander the Great [23:38] 
• The connection between meaning and ritual [25:29] 
• We need to stop treating humans like “SKUmans” [29:10]
• The lightning round [33:08]
• Getting good at stability management [36:38] 
• What we can learn from “the pistols” [39:59]
• How to create belonging on your team [44:21]
• Focusing on your teams to create stability [45:43] 
• Learning how to radicalize HR [48:53] 
• Ashley’s biggest takeaway from writing a book [53:11] 

The problems that accompany change 

Ashley addresses five core problem areas that accompany change: 

1. Uncertainty
2. Lack of control 
3. Lack of belonging 
4. Displacement
5. Loss of meaning

The feeling of belonging is intuitive. Humans form social groups. Those groups are massively important to psychological health, sense of identity, and cognitive processes. The way we think is socially mediated. A team gives you a sense of belonging. It’s a source of massive stability.

 Teammates complement each other so together they can meet a goal that couldn’t be achieved alone. When reorganization happens, all of the social groups at work are upended. In his book, Ashley also dove into the science of “place attachment.” People get attached to places. Place is a thing strongly tied to work. But there’s also a connection between ritual and place.

Our habits are a mechanism by which we grow attached to a place. Habits and rituals tied to place have people saying “It’s where I do this” or “It’s where we do this.” When offices are changed or people are moved, you disrupt the rituals attached to that place.

Those places are a source of stability. And for people to do their best work, they need stability. All of these facets of a human—certainty, control, social groups, sense of place, ritual—are the foundation of showing up at work and being useful. Everyone wants to be useful. How we design the workplace hinges on these things.

Ashley is clear: “Sooner or later you have to ask people what they want and listen to what they tell you.”

How Ashley looks at meaning differently

Ashley points out that the world around us must make sense. You can’t be uplifted by the mission of an organization if you can’t figure out what the mission is. Science tells us that the coherence of our world is so important that when it’s taken away in one place, we find it in another.

There are two ingredients to meaning:

1. Things have to make sense (which is shredded when things are changed)
2. You need to find your own purpose. Someone can’t tell you what your purpose is 

We encounter the world and question, “Do I understand what’s going on here? Is this something that speaks to me?” If it does and someone asks if your work has meaning, you’ll say “yes.” Unfortunately, people think everyone around them has to have the same meaning. It doesn’t work like that. As much as they dislike it, employers aren’t massively important to someone’s purpose.

We need to stop treating humans like “SKUmans”

What characteristics of humans do we capture in our technology at work? How does that inform how we think about people at work? We track the “cogs in a machine” stuff. We record names, date of birth, someone’s role, their certifications and experience, etc. but we don’t record what amuses someone, what makes them smile, and the weird things they love to do. Maybe they’re always late for meetings, love to bake, or love creating spreadsheets.

If you think humans are interchangeable and emotionless beings, how would you describe them? As a “SKU” number. SKUs are stock-keeping units. They track what something costs, where it is in the store, what the margin is, etc. We’ve been doing the same to humans. And that’s massively inhuman. We can’t capture human work this way. How might we capture a human at work?

Ashley argues for getting better at understanding what people are like at work. It’s about asking questions like, “How are you offering your best to other humans? Why did you show up today?”

Now that we’ve covered the problems with change, how do we address them? Ashley shares how stability management just might be the key (and how to navigate it) in this episode.

Resources & People Mentioned

• Join the RedThread Community!

Connect with Ashley Goodall

• The Problem with Change: And the Essential Nature of Human Performance
• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Matthew Daniel—the Senior Principal for Talent Strategy and Mobility at Guild Education—believes that, in a workplace context, skills are the things we know, can do, and the ways of thinking that help us deliver on business strategy. They are rich, deep, complex, and meaningful.Matthew believes that the “Half-life” statistic that’s been perpetuated about workplace skills is garbage. In this conversation, he details exactly why the half-life of a skill being 2 ½ to 5 years is faulty logic and how we should view skills differently. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• How to join the RedThread Research community [3:16]
• Learn more about Matthew Daniel [3:52] 
• The half-life of a workplace skill [6:57] 
• The history of the false statistic [13:20] 
• How this statistic has influenced decisions [20:29] 
• The importance of critical thinking [24:18] 
• The lightning round [31:15] 
• How Matthew talks about skills [34:23] 
• Durable versus perishable skills [38:27]
• Skills as an equalizer in organizations [40:55] 
• The big takeaway from Matthew’s research [43:28] 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Join the RedThread Research community!
• Matthew’s article: Let’s not obsess about disappearing skills; we need to plan for the ones that’ll stay
• On the Obsolescence and Retraining of Engineering Personnel

Connect with Matthew Daniel

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Guild Education

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Generative AI is taking the world by storm, and the realm of HR is no exception. The use of AI will change a business and it will impact teams. That’s why Angela Cheng-Cimini seeks to answer the question, “How do you make sure your teams are positively impacted by AI?”A lot of the conversation starts with mitigating the fear that surrounds AI. Angela believes one of the ways you can get people to run toward generative AI is to create a safe environment where they can play with it and be amazed by its capabilities. Then, they’ll want to integrate it into their work. In this conversation, Angela shares how—as the CHRO—she’s operationalizing AI experimentation at Harvard Business Publishing. Because, ultimately, “AI is not going to replace humans. But humans will be replaced by humans who use AI.”

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Learn more about Angela Cheng-Cimini and her role [3:31] 
• The issues Angela is facing in her organization [5:49] 
• Using AI to help with the employee experience [9:51] 
• The Gen AI experiment that Angela ran [13:27] 
• The impact of Gen AI on recruiting[16:06] 
• How to take advantage of AI [18:59] 
• How to justify the expense of AI [22:30] 
• The ethical use of AI in organizations [24:16] 
• Influencing broader AI enablement strategy [26:37] 
• The lightning round [28:19] 
• HR’s role in integrating AI into the workforce [31:11] 
• How to operationalize experimentation [34:00] 
• Angela’s advice to leaders using Gen AI [36:00]
• Angela’s biggest takeaway from the AI journey [40:34]
• Why is Angela passionate about HR? [41:28] 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Generative AI for Everyone

Connect with Angela Cheng-Cimini

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Harvard Business Publishing 

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Skills data can be used to raise the bar in talent acquisition, implement data-driven learning, make strategic workforce planning decisions, help employees reach career aspirations, and much more. Too many organizations are so glued to the idea of perfection that they won’t implement imperfect programs to gather skills data. Dan Weiss and Emily Hacker believe that this mindset is useless.Your skills data won’t be perfect—but it can still be useful and helpful to employees. They share exactly why in this episode of Workplace Stories. 

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Join the RedThread Research Community! [2:53] 
• Learning more about Dan Weiss and Emily Hacker [3:35] 
• Transforming culture before building infrastructure [9:07] 
• How the MetLife culture championed the process [13:23] 
• Their current pilot and the vision for the future [16:40] 
• The lightning round [25:46] 
• How to get buy-in from leadership [30:09]
• The critical role data plays in skills development [33:09] 
• Their data sources and how they’re using them [36:43] 
• Where does the data live? [40:43] 
• The biggest thing Emily and Dan have learned [43:35] 
• Why Emily and Dan do the work they do [44:26] 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Join the RedThread Research Community! 
• Employee Benefits Trends Study 

Connect with Emily Hacker and Dan Weiss

• Connect with Emily on LinkedIn
• Connect with Dan on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Jeremy Shapiro, AVP of Human Resources and Workforce Analytics, and Chris Shultz, Director of HR Intelligent Automation and Gen AI at Merck join us in this forward-thinking conversation. Learn how (and why) Merck is embracing AI to streamline HR processes, support innovation, and maintain ethical considerations. This was hugely educational for us and we hope you get a glimpse into the future of HR tech.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• What does the future of HR look like in an AI-driven world? [1:17]
• How can AI serve as a translator and guide for HR professionals? [7:47]
• How Merck ensures AI is implemented responsibly [8:51]
• How Merck leveraging AI for massive efficiency gains in HR [12:45]
• How Merck determines what AI solutions to build internally [16:54]
• Can HR keep pushing the efficiency frontier with AI, or is there a limit? [19:19] 
• How organizations can support the mental well-being of AI engineers [25:16]
• How ethics play a crucial role in the development of AI [31:12]
• What key strategies should HR leaders focus on in the next six months? [37:03]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Keith McNulty’s (McKinsey & Company) post about the bias of LLMs
• BCG’s Research on AI in the workplace
• Glint (HR tool)
• Workday (HR tool)

Connect with our Guests

• Jeremy Shapiro
• Chris Shultz

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

How do you turn a skeptical organization into a believer in the power of Learning & Development? We interviewed Mitchel MacNair, Director of Talent Development and Learning at Crown Castle to find out. Mitchel takes us on a journey from his unconventional background in nuclear engineering and the Navy to leading transformational change in L&D. He tells us how he reshaped Crown Castle’s learning function by aligning it with business strategy, building credibility through data-driven results, and elevating its impact across the organization. 

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• How Mitchel’s background in the Navy prepared him for L&D leadership [4:35]
• Handling the loss of 50% of the L&D team within Mitchel’s first six months [6:20]
• How organizational chaos impacts strategic L&D changes at Crown Castle [9:29]
• Transforming L&D from "order takers" to strategic business partners [10:58]
• The role of the principal designer in Crown Castle’s L&D success [13:20]
• Collaborating with other functions to focus on outcomes [15:10]
• Why obtaining business performance data early is critical for L&D success [18:17]
• Demonstrating a 192% increase in services sold through L&D programs [23:00]
• How Crown Castle developed their AI policies [35:10]
• L&D’s role in Crown Castle's skills strategy and future talent planning [41:00]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Is Your Genius at Work by Dick Richards
• Nick Shackleton-Jones (LinkedIn Thought Leader)

Connect with Mitchel MacNair

• Mitchel MacNair on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

What if your L&D team could shift from merely delivering training to truly driving your company’s strategic goals? In this conversation, we talk with Lisa Christensen, McKinsey’s Director of Learning and Innovation. Lisa takes a refreshingly strategic approach, asking not just how L&D can support learning but “To what end?” She shares how her focus on outcomes over output has reshaped McKinsey’s approach to everything from people analytics to building a strong feedback culture.

We also talk about why L&D should embrace experimentation, moving far beyond traditional course delivery to tackle big organizational challenges. Lisa makes the case for L&D to collaborate closely with People Analytics and Legal to ensure that learning initiatives aren’t just reactive but strategically positioned for future growth. Her “no regrets” actions offer useful, bold steps for L&D leaders, inspiring us to see the function as a driver of both human and organizational transformation.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Why McKinsey's L&D team always starts with the question, "To what end?" [1:00]
• The risk of L&D focusing only on short-term skill needs [15:00]
• Collaboration with People Analytics transforming L&D's impact [18:00]
• L&D teams losing their value by sticking to outdated metrics [20:00]
• What it means for L&D to have an experimental mindset [31:00]
• How L&D leaders can ensure their department's stability and credibility [37:00]
• The “no regrets” actions every L&D team should consider right now [43:00]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Oliver Wyman Report on Workforce Future
• McKinsey’s Learning & Innovation Center of Excellence

Connect with Lisa Christensen

• Connect with Lisa Christensen on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Could your network be the key to your career success and organizational growth? In this episode of Workplace Stories, we chat with Greg Pryor, author of the upcoming book, “The Social Capital Imperative.” 

Greg explains how social capital—our connections and relationships—drives business outcomes, sparks innovation, and boosts career growth. With the pandemic reshaping work, he argues that shifting from internal networks to open, cross-functional ones is crucial for success today.Greg shares practical strategies for making network-building accessible to individuals, teams, and organizations.

He highlights how AI and technology can help unlock the potential of networks, focusing on measurable outcomes. His passion for helping organizations harness the power of social networks makes a strong case for why networks matter in the modern workplace.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• How focusing on people and networks—not just technology—drives workplace results [1:00]
• Nine key use cases for network analysis, ranging from career growth to cultural change [2:40]
• How Post Malone’s collaborations illustrate the power of networks in boosting success [9:00]
• How “energizing influencers” like Dolly Parton can spark organizational transformation [14:00]
• How the pandemic shifted networks from open to closed, impacting innovation [29:00]
• Building networks for career growth, even without organizational support [39:20]
• How AI can make network analysis more accessible and actionable [44:18]

Resources & People Mentioned

• The Social Capital Imperative
• Organizational Network Analysis (ONA)
• Amy Edmondson’s work on Psychological Safety
• Rob Cross - network analysis expert
• John Boudreau

Connect with Greg Pryor

• Greg Pryor on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Cole Napper, FedEx’s Global Head of People Analytics, joined us to explore the real versus ideal roles of AI in HR and people analytics, focusing on practical application and real-world impact. Cole highlighted AI’s current limitations, especially the problem of “anti-productive work,” where technology demands extra effort rather than reducing it. His perspective emphasizes the need for critical thinking in analytics to ensure AI truly serves organizational goals.

Cole also talked about the structural improvements required to enhance data quality and discussed how people analytics teams need to evolve for AI to make a meaningful difference. His pragmatic vision challenges the hype surrounding AI and reframes it as a tool to support strategic decision-making rather than an all-encompassing solution.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Introducing our conversation with Cole Napper of FedEx [00:22] 
• Why AI should focus on productive work [02:10] 
• How specialized agents could reshape HR technology and analytics workflows [03:10] 
• Whether we are expecting too much from AI too soon in people analytics [07:00] 
• The disconnect between vendors’ AI promises and actual user experience [08:20] 
• Whether AI is driving value within organizations or merely adding costs [14:00] 
• Why critical thinking is a core skill for leveraging AI in people analytics [17:10] 
• The "Inquisitor and Change Agent" model and how it improves analytics impact [21:10] 
• How AI can evolve from repetitive data tasks to strategic roles [22:00] 
• Whether modular tools and specialized AI agents could be the future [41:30] 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Directionally Correct podcast by Cole Napper and Scott Hines
• "The Alchemist" by Paulo Coelho
• Nvidia

Connect with Cole Napper

• Cole Napper on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

What happens when AI moves faster than the people who implement it? 

Christopher Lind, executive advisor and industry expert, shares stories of organizations that got it wrong—sometimes with devastating consequences.

From replacing entire teams with AI to accelerating broken processes, the conversation reveals how quickly things can unravel when technology outpaces understanding. At the same time, there’s tremendous opportunity if AI is handled with care.

We explored what it takes to keep humans at the center of the work while letting AI handle repetitive tasks. This isn’t about avoiding AI—it’s about understanding how to use it in a way that aligns with our goals, values, and the irreplaceable need for human relationships.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Why AI experts are often the most skeptical [0:56]
• How generative AI can quickly magnify problems [1:30]
• Whether AI should serve us or the other way around [2:00]
• Why measuring AI’s true cost is so tricky [3:20]
• How you might unknowingly rely on AI daily [8:42]
• Preparing for the changes AI will bring to jobs [15:00]
• What happens when automation goes wrong [35:17]
• How one company’s overuse of AI caused failure [39:10]
• Whether AI’s logic is misunderstood or alien [44:00]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Podcast: Future Focused with Christopher Lind
• Radiolab’s "Shell Game" Episode

Connect with Christopher Lind

• LinkedIn: Christopher Lind

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

We had an incredible conversation with Don Taylor and Eglė Vinauskaitė about their report, AI and L&D: Intention and Reality. Their research goes deep into how AI is reshaping learning and development, from streamlining tasks like content creation to enabling strategic integration across organizations. 

Don and Eglė talked about the fact that AI’s potential goes far beyond efficiency—it’s about solving meaningful business challenges and driving innovation through smarter decision-making.

A standout idea was their “immaturity model,” which challenges the notion of linear AI adoption. They explained that success relies on factors like leadership mindset, organizational readiness, and strong cross-functional relationships, rather than following a predictable path.

Their advice to start with clear business problems was especially impactful, offering a practical way to cut through AI hype and focus on real value. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone navigating AI in L&D.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• The critical need for L&D to look beyond silos [0:45]
• What the "immaturity model" says about AI adoption [1:10]
• How Don and Eglė’s perspectives shape AI in L&D [3:40]
• Why organizations are stuck in AI’s efficiency phase [7:39]
• How historical mindsets limit L&D’s potential with AI [13:20]
• Why AI adoption isn’t a linear progression [16:26]
• The real barriers to embracing AI in L&D [27:10]
• Starting with the right problem: Key to AI success [35:00]
• Balancing experimentation with efficiency in AI adoption [44:47]

Resources & People Mentioned

• AI and L&D: Intention and Reality by Don Taylor and Eglė Vinauskaitė
• Heather Stefanski, CLO of McKinsey
• AI and L&D: From Talk to Action (Previous report)

Connect with Don Taylor and Eglė Vinauskaitė

• Donald H. Taylor’s website
• Eglė Vinauskaitė’s LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

We had an incredible conversation with Nick Hudgell, Global Head of People Insights at Sanofi, about the transformative power of data governance and AI in HR. Nick shared how his team has built an infrastructure that connects disparate systems, improves data quality, and uses machine learning to unlock insights that genuinely improve employee experiences. 

From rethinking engagement surveys to launching AI-powered tools like the Sanofi Concierge, Nick made the case for why data is the backbone of innovation in people management.Nick also shared thought-provoking stories about breaking down resistance to change, balancing data privacy with innovation, and navigating the challenges of working in complex, multinational environments.

We learned how his team collaborates across functions to streamline data, standardize definitions, and ensure technology is implemented in ways that actually work for employees. The practical examples he provided, from engagement programs to job architecture improvements, highlight the tangible results of getting the data right.

We couldn’t have been more energized by Nick’s passion for making data governance approachable and impactful.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Why data governance is crucial for successful AI [1:10]
• Using the house metaphor to explain strong data foundations [2:36]
• Nick’s path from psychology student to HR leader [6:00]
• How Sanofi integrates data governance with HR tech [10:24]
• Steps to build an effective data governance framework [14:40]
• Handling siloed HR tech and aligning it with company goals [18:20]
• Measuring employee engagement program success with data [25:10]
• What data-as-a-service means for HR's future [31:00]
• Sanofi’s use of AI to analyze and act on employee feedback [47:00]
• Why data governance is key to AI and growth [54:20]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Sanofi Concierge – AI-powered internal assistant tool supporting employees with personalized guidance.

Connect with Nick Hudgell

• Nick Hudgell on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

What happens to an organization when learning and development disappears? It’s a question more leaders are facing as L&D teams shrink or are deprioritized, even as the demand for a skilled workforce grows. 

Michelle Kay, Head of Learning and Development at Albertsons, has a clear answer: the unique expertise of L&D is irreplaceable. Managing learning for over 355,000 associates across one of the nation’s largest grocery chains, Michelle demonstrates how L&D can be a driving force behind business success, even in the face of change and uncertainty.

Michelle’s perspective blends optimism and realism as she tackles pressing challenges like AI integration, burnout, and evolving workforce expectations. She explores how L&D functions as a critical link between talent development and business needs, offering tools for long-term growth and innovation.

Through her candid insights and stories, she shows how learning teams can remain relevant, impactful, and future-focused—despite the shifting dynamics of the workplace.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• How L&D can remain relevant in shrinking organizations [2:10]
• How generative AI might reduce burnout and simplify work [12:00]
• Balancing alignment and innovation in L&D leadership [17:22]
• Why curiosity is key for navigating rapid change [21:00]
• The unique skills L&D professionals bring to the table [25:55]
• How to approach AI experimentation in a low-risk way [30:10]
• What happens when L&D teams partner with AI for growth [33:30]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Generative AI tools (e.g., ChatGPT, AI voice generators):
  Explore ChatGPT | AI Voice Generators like ElevenLabs
• Malcolm Gladwell’s Revenge of the Tipping Point audiobook

Connect with Michelle Kay

• Michelle Kay on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Cari Bohley, Vice President of Talent Management at Peraton, talks about solving real workplace problems by focusing on skills. From finding highly specialized talent in competitive markets to helping employees see clear career paths, Cari explains how tools like AI are changing the game. She shares what it takes to turn skills into a practical solution for hiring, retention, and engagement—especially in an industry where the stakes are high. Her story offers actionable insights for tackling challenges in hiring and L&D while proving the value of these efforts to leadership. 

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Cari’s role at Peraton and its mission-critical focus [0:00]
• Metrics that make leadership care about skills [1:20]
• How timing impacts a business case [2:00]
• Using AI to hire in niche markets [7:07]
• Boosting retention with clear career paths [13:10]
• Skills as the foundation for hiring and growth [16:10]
• Tailoring a business case for leadership buy-in [32:30]
• What success looks like with skills tools [35:00]
• Lessons from implementing too quickly [39:06]
• Why Cari enjoys the “fun” side of HR [40:20]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Peraton
• SeekOut
• Constellation Research Supernova Awards

Connect with Cari Bohley

• Cari Bohley on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Most organizations waste money on L&D technology because they don’t think like investors. We sat down with Kimberly Williams, CEO of Absorb Software, to talk about her unique perspective on learning and development technology. As someone with a private equity background, Kimberly offers a fresh take on how investment thinking can shape smarter decisions in the L&D space.Our conversation covered everything from AI’s role in upskilling to trends driving workforce productivity. Kimberly shared practical advice for leaders making tech investments and gave us a behind-the-scenes look at how organizations can align learning tools with real business outcomes.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• How Kimberly’s Background Ties L&D to Investments [2:41]
• Major Trends Shaping People Tech [3:54]
• AI’s Role in Upskilling and L&D Tech [6:07]
• AI Integrating Learning Into Work [8:30]
• If L&D Is Becoming More Strategic [10:20]
• Corporate L&D as a Consultative Role [13:10]
• Creating Measurable Value in L&D [15:20]
• Exciting Investments in People Tech [28:00]
• Evaluating Vendors’ Stability and Growth [34:40]
• Lessons From Mistakes Were Made [42:52]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Absorb Software
• Harvard Business Review – Article that touches on the “half-life of skills”.
• "Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me)" by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson
• Coach Mike Krzyzewski (Coach K)

Connect with Kimberly Williams 

• Find Kimberly Williams on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

In 2025, the HR landscape is already transforming–quickly. With AI moving from hype to reality, workforce cultures evolving, and organizations pausing to get their data and systems in order, leaders face both big opportunities and bigger decisions. 

To truly make sense of it all, we sat down with Stacey Harris, Chief Research Officer at Sapient Insights Group, whose decades of experience as both a practitioner and industry analyst give her a grounded, data-backed perspective on what HR teams need to focus on right now.

From the rise of personalization and the cultural barriers blocking internal mobility to the critical role of managers and why workforce planning is finally having its moment, Stacey gave us a clear-eyed view of where HR is heading—and what’s holding it back.

She challenged us to think differently about what “engagement” truly means, the limitations of current AI applications, and why a company’s culture—not its tech—might be the biggest obstacle to success in 2025.

If you’re ready to make sense of this rapidly changing landscape and get practical advice on how to navigate the year ahead, Stacey’s insights are the perfect guide.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Intro [0:00]
• Meeting Stacey Harris [4:26]
• 2025 Trends in HR Tech [7:08]
• AI in HR: Hype vs. Reality [9:06]
• The Data Problem and Internal Mobility Challenges [12:47]
• Managers as Barriers and the Role of AI [18:00]
• Rethinking Engagement and Personalization [23:54]
• Workforce Planning’s Evolution [38:20]
• Final Thoughts and Why Stacey Does the Work She Does [42:00]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Sapient Insights Group – Sapient Insights Group Website
• Sierra-Cedar HR Systems Survey 
• Lightcast

Connect with Stacey Harris

• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

We sat down with Tapaswee Chandele, Senior Vice President of Global Talent Development and System Partnerships at Coca-Cola, to talk about what it really takes to help managers succeed. 

She’s direct, transparent, and refreshingly honest about the challenges leaders face today—and what companies need to do to make things simpler. From setting clear expectations to measuring what matters, Tapaswee breaks down the way Coca-Cola supports managers without overcomplicating the process.

One of the huge takeaways for us was the idea of prioritization: cutting through the noise and focusing on just a few key things that actually move the needle. Tapaswee also shared some thought-provoking perspectives on culture, manager accountability, and why companies need to be intentional about the kind of leaders they develop and reward.

Oh, and we got into how AI could be a game-changer for taking boring admin work off managers’ plates so they can spend more time on what actually matters—like leading their teams.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Intro [0:00]
• How Coca-Cola Defines Manager Effectiveness [4:45]
• Embedding Leadership into Culture and Processes [10:10]
• Why Manager Effectiveness Is Declining [15:00]
• Supporting Managers with Data and Feedback [21:00]
• Using AI to Simplify Managerial Work [30:10]
• Rethinking Leadership Roles and Rewards [38:00]
• Measuring Manager Effectiveness at Coca-Cola [43:10]

Resources & People Mentioned

• Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• BetterUp – A coaching platform focused on leadership and professional growth
• Future of Jobs Report 2023 by the World Economic Forum

Connect with Tapaswee Chandele

• Tapaswee Chandele on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

In this episode of Workplace Stories, we sit down with Heather Bussing, a California employment lawyer, to break down the recent executive orders on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DE&I).

Heather brings her sharp legal perspective, offering clarity on what these orders actually mean for businesses—especially those in the private sector—and how employers can navigate this complex landscape without overreacting.

Heather is direct, no-nonsense, and refreshingly calm in the face of the confusion swirling around DE&I today. We dive into the details of the executive orders, what they really say (and what they don’t), and what companies can do to stay on the right side of the law while building a more inclusive workplace.

One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is the importance of staying focused on fairness and merit. Heather stresses that while the executive orders might stir up public debates, the real work for companies is about being transparent and fair in their practices, especially around hiring, promotions, and performance assessments.

She also talks about the growing need to rethink the way organizations measure success in their DE&I efforts, focusing on meaningful change rather than just checking boxes.

If you’re a leader or HR professional feeling the pressure to adjust your DE&I strategy, this episode is for you. Heather offers clear, actionable advice that will help you move forward with confidence.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) Introduction to Heather Bussing (and Why You Should Listen to Her)
• (6:24) What Is an Executive Order?
• (8:51) The DE&I Executive Orders and Their Focus on Federal Contractors
• (15:03) Legal Impact vs. Cultural Backlash on DE&I Programs
• (22:29) Why Fairness Should Still Be the Focus of DE&I Efforts
• (26:48) Lightening the Mood with the Lightning Round
• (30:48) Why You Should Do What You’re Already Doing 
• (35:20) Moving Forward: Maintaining DE&I Programs Amidst Change

Connect with Heather Bussing

• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES

Boston Scientific is looking at workforce planning in an entirely new way. We got the rare chance to hear all about it from Brenda Kowske, their Senior Director of Talent Analytics and Workforce Planning.

With 50,000 employees worldwide and a rapidly growing footprint, they’re navigating big challenges with fresh approaches.We talked with Brenda about how her team is breaking down traditional HR silos, integrating workforce planning into business decisions, and staying ahead of the curve with AI and skills-based planning.

She’s been in this space for over a decade and brings a sharp perspective on what works—and what doesn’t.From creating global talent pods to using unexpected data like happiness indexes, Brenda walked us through how Boston Scientific is balancing data, technology, and strategy to make workforce planning a true competitive advantage.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• Intro [0:00]
• How AI is changing jobs, skills, and how teams are truly built [1:44]
• Using location and happiness data to make better workforce choices [2:29]
• The challenge of moving from job-based to skill-based planning [7:00]
• How to keep workforce data private while still using it smartly [21:00]
• Why Boston Scientific keeps workforce planning “always on” [24:30]
• How AI could make it easier to help employees grow their skills [33:20]

Resources & People Mentioned

• GDPR – General Data Protection Regulation Overview
• Corporate Social Responsibility Directive (CSRD) – CSRD Information (European Commission)
• Anaplan – Anaplan Official Website

Connect with Brenda Kowske

• Brenda Kowske on LinkedIn

Connect With Red Thread Research

• Website: Red Thread Research
• On LinkedIn
• On Facebook
• On Twitter

Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES