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Warfare of Art & Law Podcast (Stephanie Drawdy)

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Pub. DateTitleDuration
15 May 2022Arté Util: Dr. Hemma Medina and Alessandra Saviotti on Collaborative Art Projects, the Public as Users in a Museum Context and Why Art Should Be Used to Address Social Issues01:09:42

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Please visit the website for Arté Util to learn more.

SHOW NOTES:

0:02:20 overview of Arté Util

0:08:00 projects prior to Arté Util

0:14:00 Arté Util archive and museum

0:24:00 museum 3.0 

0:24:30 vocabulary created for Arté Util

0:32:00 ‘expert culture’ term to be retired

0:36:00 the work of Dr. Jemma Medina and Alessandra Saviotti under the lens of usership

0:46:00 project applications

0:51:00 Please Love Austria project and Foreigners Out film 

0:57:45 Alternative Energy Argentinian project

1:01:45 why art should be put into useful aspect

1:04:15 how Arté Util facilitates justice through its collaborative aspect

1:06:00 U.S. prisoners photo project


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

10 Jul 2022David de Jong on his book Nazi Billionaires and his call for Historical Transparency from Families that control brands like BMW, Porsche, Volkswagen, Dr. Oetker, Bahlsen, Allianz and Munich Re00:57:04

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To learn more, please visit David de Jong's website.

Show Notes:

3:30 overview of Nazi Billionaires

5:15 families included in Nazi Billionaires control companies like BMW and Porche whitewashing patriarchs’ legacies

6:15 moral and historical reconstruction – acknowledging what’s transpired in history

9:00 Quandt dynasty and BMW Group

10:00 Flick dynasty and Daimler-Benz

11:10: Von Finck and Allianz and Munich Re 

11:45 Porsche-Piëch - Volkswagen, Porsche, Bentley                                                       

13:40 Oetkers - baking powder, cake mixes, Germany’s largest beer brewery, one of Europe’s largest sparkling wine manufacturers, luxury hotels

14:00 Flick’s conviction of war crimes and post-war business success

19:20 Flick released on good behavior and saw himself as wrongfully convicted

20:30 Ferry Porsche’s autobiography We At Porsche

22:30 Rosenberger’s post-war settlement with Porsche

23:30 Porsche Sales & Marketing Representative Joachim Peiper’s death sentence commuted for the Malmedy Massacre of U.S. Army POWs

24:45 English version of We At Porsche

25:30 German version of We At Porsche

26:00 Porsche AG spokesperson and head of Porsche Foundation Dr. Sebastian Rudolph 

28:30 research for Nazi Billionaires for 4 years starting in 2017 

29:00 archive availability and Fold 3 access

30:30 German academic reporting of Nazi family histories

32:00 breadth and depth of families’ collaboration with Third Reich

33:00 Reimann family emerge in 2019 as Germany’s second wealthiest family 

36:50 Reimann family’s Alfred Landecker Foundation 

38:20 German family Bahlsen’s study expected summer 2023

39:20 ignorant remarks by Verena Bahlsen

41:00 how current ignorance and historical distortion are related to overlooking war crimes

41:50 dynasties’ lean on notion of collective guilt

46:00 de Jong’s family experience 

47:00 Artist Max van Dam

49:30 his family experience makes him mindful of history 

51:00 his motivation to get these stories out

51:50 plans for a second book about dynasties that shaped the U.S. and the Netherlands 

52:50 evolution of his definition of justice over the course of writing Nazi Billionaires


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

31 Jul 2022Glance at Culture - Dr. Jennnifer Mass, President of Scientific Analysis of Fine Art, On Cultural Heritage Science, Modigliani's Palette, Creating Scientific Literacy and More00:49:34

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To learn more, please visit the website for Scientific Analysis of Fine Art, LLC.

Show Notes:

0:01 scientific methods in London/Berlin to understand/preserve cultural heritage since 19th Century 

2:30 history of cultural heritage science 

4:00 founding Scientific Analysis of Fine Art LLC (SAFA) 

5:40 Yves Tanguy’s Fraud in the Garden

5:50 catalogue raisonné by art historians Charles Stuckey/Stephen Mack

6:10 fascist attack at screening of Luis Bunuel’s satiric “L’Age d’Oro” 

7:00 use of multi-spectral imaging on Fraud in the Garden - ultraviolet light and infrared radiation, x-rays to view slash pattern on painting

7:45 restorations on Fraud in the Garden dated through pigments/paint binders

9:00 value of artwork as historical documents v. restoration  

9:45 cultural heritage as historical documents example of Victoria & Albert Museum

10:45 display of Rothko Murals at Harvard 

11:45 analysis for attribution questions varies between antiquities, paintings, decorative art objects

13:20 non-destructive drive for protocols for elemental and molecular analysis

14:00 changes to work by Van Gogh and Met’s Irises and Roses

14:30 geranium lake known as Eosin red

15:00 paints like cadmium/chromium yellows from Industrial Revolution are also very sensitive to light and relative humidity

15:15 changes in Matisse’s 4 versions of Joy of Life – yellows fading to ivory white

15:30 mechanism of degradation 

16:20 Picasso's 1901 The Blue Room 

17:30 Cezanne

18:15 analysis of over 900 paint tubes from Munch

19:30 paints standardized in 1920s 

21:00 flaking of zinc white: reaction of zinc oxide with oil creates crystalized molecules - zinc soaps

21:25 titanium white 

23:00 heavy metal pigment paints strongly absorb x-rays like lead white/vermillion (a mercury sulfide red) prevent seeing underpainting

24:45 head of scientific vetting committee for TEFAF New York 

27:15 Court of Arbitration for Art 

28:35 trusting science for due diligence 

30:30 stigma  attached to use of science 

33:00 Bard Graduate Center

34:00 wooden polychrome sculpture analysis: dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating

36:00  dirty dozen paint list

36:45 mixing drying linseed with non-drying oil paint (sunflower)

37:50 Eosin red, emerald green, cadmium yellow, chromium yellow, vermillion, copper blues  

38:50 favorite paintings 

39:10 Modigliani  at the Barnes 

39:45 Modigliani’s palette 

40:35 The Burlington Magazine 

41:10  Klimt’s Faculty Paintings 

42:30 computational technologies 

43:00  justice

43:45 invention of photography enabled Jacob Riis to document New York slums 

44:00 20th Century photographer and sociologist Lewis Hine

44:20 BLM 

44:30 environmental justice  

45:40 recommendations 

46:55 legacy to create scientific literacy for art conservators and historians


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

29 May 2022Glance at Culture - Author, Illustrator & Educator Marisabina Russo on How Her Heritage Informs Her Work, the Importance of Historical Justice, and Her Legacy as a Bridge Between Generations00:58:17

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To learn more, please visit Marisabina Russo's website
 
Show Notes:

2:00 A Visit With Oma

2:45 A House of Sports

3:30 Always Remember Me

3:45 I Will Come Back For You

4:00 Why Is Everybody Yelling? Growing Up In My Immigrant Family

5:00 Graphic memoir about cancer

7:00 Research at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC

7:40 Steven Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation 

8:00 Research in Italy

8:25 Her brother’s identification of his murdered father

10:30 Immigration experience and being a child of divorced parents

12:30 Jewish Book Council Review 

15:30 Sainthood

17:25 German and Yiddish included in graphic novel

18:30 Bengasi 1942 Italian war film directed by Augusto Genina 

22:30 Cats of Krasinski Square by Karen Hesse

22:35 Nicky & Vera by Peter Sís 

22:50 No Pretty Pictures by Anita Lobel 

24:45 German program for Holocaust victims to visit Germany

25:20 Visit to Leipzig, Germany

25:45 Gewandhaus - opera and classical music venue in Leipzig, Germany

27:30 how her books work towards historical justice 

29:00 Why books dealing with war are important for young readers

31:15 New York City’s Tenement Museum

32:10 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire

32:45 how Ms. Russo’s definition of justice has evolved; that justice is for all

33:30 Quote from James Baldwin “It is certain in any case that ignorance allied with power is the most ferocious enemy justice can have.”

34:50 The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson

35:25 After Such Knowledge: Memory, History and the Legacy of the Holocaust by Eva Hoffman 

36:00 The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck

36:40 Maus by Art Spiegelman

37:40 Can We Talk About Something More Pleasant by New Yorker cartoonist Roz Chast 

38:00 Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic by American cartoonist Alison Bechdel 

38:05 Persepolis: The Story of a Childhood by Marjane Satrapi

38:15 Linda Barry’s books

38:30 Her recent appearance on comic creator panels in NYC 

39:30 El Deafo by CeCe Bell 

40:00 Spiegelman’s comments on not doing another Maus book

42:20 current book dummy project  

42:30 Fiber Artist Liz Albert Fay collaboration for ‘Extraordinary Women’ project viewable on Instagram

45:15 her first book The Line Up Book 

45:35 House of Sports was a turn from picture books 

46:05 Always Remember Me was her first time addressing the Holocaust in a book

48:00 the passing of her Tante Annie 

50:45 Tante’s response about prayer during her time in Auschwitz 

53:30 The legacy of her work: to act as a bridge from the former generation to the next generations 

55:10 two letters her mother received from employer who was forced to fire her that evidence the reality of the Holocaust era


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

13 Mar 2022Center for Art Law: Irina Tarsis on Pursuing Art Law, Founding the Center & Creating Community00:43:50

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The interview with Irina Tarsis took place before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Irina is a Russian-speaking American, with Ukrainian and Jewish roots. The events we are witnessing now in connection with the war in Ukraine are heartbreaking. Glory and Peace to Ukraine and Forgiveness and Awakening to Russia.

Cover art: photograph taken in Kyiv art gallery/store circa 2020 by Irina Tarsis.

To support the Center for Art Law’s mission and to learn more about its offerings, please visit the Center for Art Law’s website

SHOW NOTES:

0:00  Irina Tarsis’ decision to attend law school to study art law

1:42  Tarsis’ reasons for pursuing art law

3:05 her work with Soviet nationalizations in the context of law libraries

4:15 Tarsis began studing art history 

4:34  Founding Center for Art Law 

5:17  Center’s growth 

7:20  Center’s Judith Bresler Fellowship 

9:24  Center’s legacy and estate planning clinic 

12:51  clinic’s artists feature series. 

13:42  Artist Molly Dougenis 

14:16  Dougenis’ estate planning

15:00  next clinic about artists dealer relationships with a focus on New York law and will include resale royalty.

16:44  recent NFT case filed in Southern District of New York that involves the Guernica of India 

17:30  many contracts include reference to all future media now known or to be to be invented down the line 

18:00 suit involving Quentin Tarantin’s attempt to mint NFTs 

18:48 future cases in art law 

20:33 teaching at Sotheby's and FIT

23:09  Tarsis’ work with the European Shoah Legacy Institute

24:15  provenance research 

26:50 Portrait of Wally 

28:00  Center’s future mission

30:16 Knoedler Gallery story 

31:45  idea for a Knoedler award 

33:03  creation of a community of artists, art fans, art aficionados, and collectors and attorneys

34:30 fundraising efforts

36:13  career positions in art law


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

26 Jun 2022Glance at Culture - Author Menachem Kaiser on His Book Plunder, His Research and Property Claim in Poland, the Vilna Ghetto and the Frustrating Design of Judicial Systems00:59:22

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Cover photo of Menachem Kaiser by Beowulf Sheehan.

To learn more, please visit the website for Menacham Kaiser and Plunder.

Show Notes:

2:00 genesis of Plunder: A Memoir of family property and Nazi treasure

4:00 the memoir by Abraham Kajser

6:45 Kajser’s experience as a forced laborer during WWII in underground camp structures in Poland that were given the code name Project Riese 

7:30 Polish version and Hebrew version of Kajser’s memoir

8:45 political decisions in what stories are given attention

10:30 the writer’s mandate to create work that’s honest

11:20 he went on a Fulbright to Lithuania

11:50 his unexpected research on the Vilna Ghetto

12:30 lessons missed in Holocaust education

13:00 his revelation of how morally and historically complicated and interesting the Holocaust is

14:00 Jews’ self-governance in ghettos included trials and hangings

15:00 How the ‘politics memory’ differs in countries like Lithuania and Poland

17:00 The arc of his thoughts on the moral and ethical questions raised by his inheritance claim for his grandfather’s building

21:00 status of his inheritance claim for his grandfather’s building

22:00 move by mayor of Sosnowiec to claim his grandfather’s building

25:30 Nationalist shift in Poland, resulting in failed/dismissed property claims

27:00 response to Plunder in Poland

28:30 KARTA publisher of Plunder in Poland 

30:00 the challenges he dealt with in researching the book 

31:50 research into forced displacement of Germans after WWII

34:30 myth-soaked Silesia became a character in the book

36:30 archive from Vilnius, Lithuania

38:00 David Fishman’s The Book Smugglers

40:00 value of archives in digitized form versus physical form

41:00 Vilnius archive re-surfaced in the late 1980s/early 1990s 

43:00 arts programs in the Vilna ghetto during WWII

43:30 Artist Samuel Bak

44:00 Poet Abraham Sutzkever

44:15 Protest songs by poet, musician, writer and activist Szmerke Kaczerginski

44:40 civil war rumblings in Vilna ghetto

46:50 Jacob Gens, head of the Vilna ghetto government

47:45 death of Itzik Wittenberg, Hero of the Vilna Ghetto / leader of the Resistance

49:30 anti-Semitism in Poland

50:30 his thoughts on how the justice system is designed to frustrate efforts 

52:15 his thoughts on how his legacy is being shaped as a writer

57:00 his current project related to an ongoing story in Montreal that involves allegations of hiding 4B in Nazi gold.


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

07 Aug 20222ND Saturday Art + Justice Bonus: Emily Gould on the Colston 4 Trial and Acquittal00:10:02

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Show notes:

1:00 evidence at trial from historian David Olusoga regarding Colston's ownership of more slaves than any other Brit in history, one of the earliest, biggest slave traders 

1:30 Colston died circa 1720 

1:45 statue of Colston erected by Victorian dignitaries in Bristol

2:10 half of the schools, streets and whatever in Bristol are named after Colston

2:20 circa 1990s, true history of Colston revealed

3:25 in the wake of the killing of George Floyd, the Black Lives Matter protests group pushed Colston statue into the harbor 

3:45 restorative justice by others with community penalty

3:55 Colston 4 jury trial over prosecution of four individuals involved in toppling Colston statute

4:05 Elected for a Crown Court jury trial and were acquitted

5:20 Conservatives and those in the government, including the cabinet, expressed surprise at the verdict

6:10 UK Attorney General considered whether to send the case to the appeal court to consider whether there was an error of law in the direction of the jury

7:50 bill going through Parliament with a provision to increase the potential sentence for criminal damage against a public monument

8:15 proposed bill to change threshold that currently exists for criminal damage against a memorial or public monument with value under 5000 pounds, maximum sentence magistrates that could  impose was three months in prison

8:50 proposed bill is to remove financial threshold and make maximum sentence 10 years


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

10 Apr 2022Historical & Political Dramas: Writer and Director Jonathan Myerson on the First Nuremberg Trial, Raising Awareness About and Giving Context to History and His View of Justice00:45:08

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The following are links to Nuremberg: The Trial of Nazi War Criminals, 4AM Kyiv Is Bombed, Mueller: Trump Tower Moscow and Reykjavik.

Show Notes:

0:42 war crimes in Ukraine and disappointment that America is not a member of the ICC.

3:00 Jonathan Myerson’s reasons for writing Nuremberg: the Trial of Nazi War Criminals

5:00 issues that almost kept Nuremberg trial from happening, including Winston Churchill’s disinterest in having a trial

7:45 Soviet Judgment at Nuremberg by Dr. Francine Hirsch 

9:45 indictment of the wrong Krupp. 

10:20 speed of the trial after VE Day in May 1945

11:35 one structural point for the Nuremberg podcast was to show the trial from the ground up

12:50 another structural point for the Nuremberg podcast was to focus on what the defendants caused in Europe not about the defendants 

14:30 how witnesses were selected to include in the podcast

15:00 Episodes 5 and 6 include what it was like to hear from witnesses about the mass killing concentration camps for the first time 

18:30 British bureaucratic coping in collection of evidence 

20:00 Hadassah Binco, mother of Belsen – use of her testimony from the Belsen trial

21:30 Hermann Graebe’s testimony about witnessing mass shooting site in Ukraine

22:30 closing by British Chief Prosecutor Lord Hartley William Shawcross 

24:45 feedback from Nuremberg podcast

27:00 This Is Your country Too podcast - seven plays about child refugees

29:00 Britian’s poor approach to accepting immigrants from Ukraine now and during WWII, Kindertransport

30:20 Lebanon, the Syrian army, Civil War 

31:45 Ukraine podcast play, 4AM Kyiv is Bombed

33:30 Lviv otherwise known as Lemberg, otherwise known as Lvov

34:30 Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder

35:30 Ukrainian National Police Facebook page

37:30 his work serves to remind us about historical events

38:30 Payback about the 1973 Yom Kippur War and US’s decision to re-arm Israel

40:00 Reykjavik podcast - meeting between Reagan and Gorbachev 

40:45 Francis Fukuyama's End of History

41:30 Star Wars program

42:00 a wider understanding of justice 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

12 Jun 2022Dr. Joanna Sliwa On Holocaust Distortion, Poland's ‘Politics of Memory’, Jewish Childhood in Kraków, an Undercover Jewess Who Negotiated with the Nazis, and a Legacy to Inspire Future Scholars of All Genocide01:05:14

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To learn more, please visit the website for Ms. Sliwa.

Show Notes:

2:45 inspiration for her career as a historian of the Holocaust and Polish Jewish history

4:30 American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (JDC)

6:50 Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany (the Claims Conference)

8:00 Claims Conference’s work on behalf of elderly survivors

10:00 current issues blocking claims that she’s encountered and how they differ between countries

12:00 history of the plunder and anti-restitution approach/laws in Poland

16:00 definition of who is a survivor for restitution purposes, e.g., exclusion of Jews who were in hiding during WWII from receiving pensions

17:45 lack of understanding and education about the gravity of the theft and restitution issues from WWII

19:00 claims like Menachem Kaiser 

20:20 attitudes and behaviors towards Holocaust survivors and why claims are still ongoing

23:00 heirless property

24:00 JUST Act report’s findings on Poland about archives 

26:00 It Is Still Night authors Historian Jan Grabowski and Professor Barbara Engelking

30:00 pursuit of the ‘Politics of Memory’ by the current government in Poland, Law and Justice as a distortion of Holocaust history

35:00 example of how Holocaust history is distorted: Poland’s commemoration of a Polish railway worker who is said to have given water to Jews in boxcars en route to Treblinka versus acknowledging Poles who robbed Jews in boxcars in exchange for water

41:00 Jewish Childhood in Kraków: A Microhistory of the Holocaust

43:45 historical drama film Schindler’s List

45:45 Children With a Star: Jewish Youth in Nazi Europe by Deborah Dwork

47:00 Counterfeit Countess: The Jewish Mathematician Who Rescued Poles during the Holocaust co-authored with Dr. Elizabeth (Barry) White, expert on Majdanek Concentration Camp

52:00 genealogy methods supplemented research for Counterfeit Countess

56:15 The Beginning of the Holocaust in Poland 1939-1941? Other upcoming projects?

59:15 how Dr. Sliwa defines justice and how she sees her work facilitating justice 

1:30:00 Dr. Sliwa’s hope for her legacy: to educate and inspire future scholars of all genocide


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

25 Sep 2022Glance at Culture - Ella Nowicki on Incarceration, Art and Defining Justice in Terms of Accountability01:02:44

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Please visit the following links to learn more:
Shahn’s sketches for Rikers Island;
Correctional History discussion of Shahn;
Lucienne Bloch, Cycle of a Woman’s Life: Childhood:
Shahn’s photo of an incarcerated painter at Blackwell’s Island;
Larry Cook, The Visiting Room and Urban Landscapes;
Groundswell murals at Rikers;
Handwritten survey responses in the Shahn Papers at the Archives of American Art.

SHOW NOTES:
2:00 Ben Shahn’s and Lou Block’s proposed Rikers Island Penitentiary murals for the New Deal 

4:45 West wall’s mural representing prison reform

6:05 East wall’s mural of prisons in need of reform

8:20 New York’s Municipal Art Commission rejects murals as psychologically unfit for prisoners and as anti-social propaganda 

9:00 1935 survey of Blackwell Island prisoners about murals

11:35 one incarcerated man likened Shahn’s murals to Diego Rivera’s Rockefeller Center mural

12:40 concerns about making incarcerated life a spectacle

14:10 responses by Ben Shahn and Lou Block to survey

17:20 utility of survey for art historians

19:10 survey archive

21:30 Ben Shahn’s New Deal Murals: Jewish Identity in the American Scene by Diana Linden

22:10 Ben Shahn’s New York by Harvard Art Musuems

22:50 Art for the Millions: Essays from the 1930s by artists and administrators of the WPA Project by Francis O’Connor includes material from Lucienne Bloch

23:10 Bloch’s “Cycle of a Woman’s Life” accepted for WPA Project in 1935

23:50 Bloch’s primary sources quote from letters by incarcerated females 

29:30 Harold Lehman’s Man’s Daily Bread erected at Rikers and later removed

35:20 Faith Ringgold’s 1971 For the Women’s House

37:00 Reception to Ringgold’s For the Women’s House by male incarcerated population 

38:45 2012 Prison Landscapes by Alyse Emdur

42:10 Antoine Ealy’s opinion of prison landscapes

43:20 utility of murals in correctional institutions

44:15 Nicole Fleetwood’s book and exhibition Marking Time: Art in the Age of Mass Incarceration

45:00 Shahn’s photograph of incarcerated man painting portrait at Blackwell’s Island 

47:30 Utility of art as a direct and didactic tool 

51:00 how a focus on art in correction facilities aids in facilitating justice 

56:00 Marking Time includes incarcerated and non-incarcerated artists

56:20 Artist Larry Cook

 57:30 Groundswell NYC

58:20 How Nowocki defines justice 

59:20 Mariame Kaba’s view of justice in terms of accountability as compared with punishment

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

11 Sep 2022ASU Art Museum Director Miki Garcia On Art's Power to Address Inherited Notions About Mass Incarceration, the Undoing Time Exhibition, and Justice As Public Love00:43:04

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Cover photo of Miki Garcia by Alonso Parra.

Please visit the website for Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration at ASU's Art Museum and at Berkeley Art Museum to learn more.

1:30 ASU Art Museum’s mission as a learning institution that centers art and artists in the service of social good and community well-being

2:40 inspiration for Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration exhibition as a cultural mark in time for ASU Art Museum 

6:40 effort to address all dimensions of an exhibition on mass incarceration and its impact on viewers

8:00 Art for Justice Fund’s involvement in exhibition 

9:05 prior exhibition with artist Gregory Sale who worked with incarcerated populations

9:15 Contemporary Art Museum Houston and Nicole Fleetwood’s work with the Walls Turned Sideways: Artists Confront the Justice System exhibition 

10:20 Undoing Time’s focus began with a survey of how incarceration has been portrayed through images from the 18th Century Code of Hammurabi forward

11:30 12 artists invited to create commissions for Undoing Time, including Mario Ybarra, Jr. who created a pizza parlor vignette that dealt with Ybarra’s childhood friend Richard who later was incarcerated on a murder charge

13:20 rehabilitation was shown in Ybarra’s work that’s not shown in historical images of incarceration 

13:55 Stephanie Syjuco’s commission abstracted images of black and brown incarcerated population

15:10 Juan Brenner’s commission about the Guatemalan Highlands and how the U.S. West Coast prison system gang culture was exported to Central America

16:10 destruction of Guatemalan Highlands’ residence due to erection of prison that houses Mara Salvatrucha gang

17:25 architecture of prisons, e.g, the panopticon, the fortress

18:00 Indigenous artists Raven Chacon and Cannupa Hanska Luger 

19:15 Luger’s commission focus on the relationship of land to mass incarceration

19:25 Mass Liberation Arizona’s mission of people over property

21:00 Theater maker and Playwright Michael Rohd choreographed going through the exhibition 

22:55 Raven Chacon’s musical composition about a juvenile detention center

24:10 Rohd’s positing of questions and cards for viewer feedback 

26:45 Art for Justice Fund to ASU poet Natalie Diaz and the Center for Imagination in the Borderlands

30:00 undergoing critique of the purpose and operation of museums 

33:30 museums are civic institutions of dialogue, engagement and storytelling and should be responsible to the communities they serve

35:30 art’s power to challenge inherited narratives about incarceration 

37:15 how she sees her legacy to eliminate as many boundaries as possible and uphold all kinds of art forms and include more voices and to open up what a museum can be and who it’s actually for

39:20 evolution of her definition of justice 

40:45 justice has to be fought for 

40:55 justice as public love


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

27 Feb 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Dr. Eugenie Schwarzwald, Ukrainian-Born Educator & Philanthropist00:03:13

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The following are links used in preparation of this episode:

https://forbiddenmusic.org/2014/06/23/the-woman-who-educated-vienna-eugenie-schwarzwald-1872-1940/

https://www.encyclopedia.com/women/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/schwarzwald-eugenie-1872-1940

To view rewards for supporting the podcast, please visit Warfare's Patreon page.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast, please call 1.929.260.4942 or email Stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. 

© Stephanie Drawdy [2022]

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

03 Mar 20222ND Saturday *Alert* Bonus Response to War In Ukraine00:01:42

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

06 Mar 20222ND Saturday Art + Justice Bonus - Artist & Attorney Andrew Smith on the Meaning of Justice and the Purity of Art00:01:48

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The featured image is titled My Mississippi Morning, Andrew Smith. Image: © and TM Andrew Smith. All rights reserved.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

17 Apr 2022Scriviner's Gazette Bonus - Austrian Artist Broncia Koller-Pinell00:02:32

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The following are links used to prepare this episode:

https://thehistoryofpaintingrevisited.weebly.com/broncia-koller-pinell.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U49KvXAM-IY

https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/koller-pinell-broncia


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

20 Mar 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Ukrainian Artist Maria Prymachenko00:02:31

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The following are links used in preparation of this episode:
https://www.ladbible.com/news/expert-explains-how-to-properly-pronounce-ukrainian-capital-city-kyiv-20220312

https://adamovskiy.foundation/en/works/prymachenko-mariya/

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/maria-prymachenko-paintings-ukraine-peace-symbol/index.html

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/ukraine/articles/the-most-inspiring-women-in-ukrainian-history/

https://findatwiki.com/Maria_Prymachenko

https://www.messynessychic.com/2022/03/04/she-was-ukraines-folk-art-heroine/


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

27 Mar 2022Glance at Culture - Ukrainian-American Artist Mira Hnatyshyn on Ukrainian History & Heritage, Art as Protest and Creating a Community of Empathy00:29:52

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Cover Image: Freedom Holding Bread, Mira Hnatyshyn (2022)

To learn more, please visit Mira Hnatyshyn's website.

SHOW NOTES

2:15 Hnatyshyn’s work focused on identity, gender roles and cultural constructs 

3:00 influence of her Ukrainian culture and history

4:00 travels to Ukraine inspired The Braid Basket 

4:40 Revolution of Dignity

8:00 Orange Revolution

10:00 work in reaction to Russia’s recent invasion of Ukraine

11:30 Ukrainian flag’s meaning

12:45 Pieta inspired Freedom Holding Bread

13:45 Fatal Run-Kyiv

15:40 abstract painting Red

17:15 military exercises preceded invasion

18:30 Mariupol theatre bombing of children, діти

20:50 message with paintings of empathy, knowledge, truth and justice

22:10 feedback from paintings 

22:40 painting titled Orange Revolution aka Invasion

24:30 art during war / potential for using art as protest

26:15 justice as a principle of fairness

26:45 hope for her work to facilitate justice and/or addressing injustice by not silencing empathy or truth 

27:45 artists creating a community of empathy with their work

28:35 her message to those impacted by war and atrocity


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

03 Apr 20222ND Saturday Art + Justice Bonus - Institute of Art & Law's Assistant Director Emily Gould on Art, Propaganda and Russia's Invasion of Ukraine00:02:56

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

24 Mar 2022Artists At Risk *Alert* Bonus - Ukrainian Theater Director Oleksandr Kniga00:03:10

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For more information, please visit the Artists at Risk website.

The following is a link to an article about the Russian military's taking of Oleksandr Kniga by the Washington Times.

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

28 Mar 2022BBC Drama: 4AM Kyiv Is Bombed *Alert*00:02:00

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The following is the link to 4AM KYIV IS BOMBED.


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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

24 Apr 2022Glance at Culture - The Art Unit Founder Mariia Kashchenko on Making Art Accessible, Ukraine's Culture & Heritage, and Art In Times of War00:38:09

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To learn more, please visit The Art Unit's website.

SHOW NOTES:         

1:40 reason for founding The Art Unit to make art more accessible for collectors and creatives

4:45 Ukrainian artist Nataliia Verbova based in Germany

5:00 Ukrainian artist Margo Sarkisova fled Eastern Ukraine in 2014 and recently fled Kharkiv

5:30 Ukrainian artist Bohdan Svyrydov

7:00 Ukrainian artist Sergiy Kondratiuk and his series of Soviet porcelain figurines

10:15 Challenges Ukrainians face with misappropriation of culture

12:50 The Gates of Europe by Ukrainian historian Serhii Plokhy 

13:40 Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko

14:15 weaponization of culture and history

14:45 works by Ukrainian artist Maria Prymachenko damaged by Russian war

16:00 oppression of Ukrainian culture and history

17:20 Homeward by directed by Nariman Aliev and Crimean Tartars

18:35 Importance of art in times of war

19:20 Ukrainian artist Olena Shtepura

19:50 Ukrainian artist Polina Shcherbyna 

20:15 Charcoal swirl mother and child

20:25 Artists acting as a conscience for society

21:20 Ukrainian artist Margo Sarkisova’s war diary – works on paper employing symbolic imagery

22:40 utility of art versus photography 

24:00 war photographer Maksim Levin

24:40 Timur Dzhafarov aka John Object’s war diary on Instagram

26:00 The Art Unit’s impact on culture by helping to raise the voices of emerging artists

28:00 Change in her definition of justice

30:00 Russian propaganda that war is only targeting military bases 

31:10 art addressing war by Olena Shtepura

31:20 art addressing war by Polina Shcherbyna with real & surreal imagery

32:00 works to come that will interprete the war as the war will continue to be a main topic

33:00 multiple generations of Ukrainians have experienced war

33:20 art creating the language to go forward with Russia as the neighbor after the war 

35:45 looting during the war

36:15 how to deal with the destruction of Ukraine when she returns



Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

22 May 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Artist Sofie Korner and Art Historian Dr. Stella Kramrisch00:04:22

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The following are links used to prepare this episode, including the research of Dr. Elizabeth Otto:

https://artsandculture.google.com/story/cAXBuNF0R1tPNw

https://www.frauenkunst.at/de/maler/korner/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_Kramrisch

https://www.hatjecantz.de/the-bauhaus-in-calcutta-5790-1.html

https://www.hindustantimes.com/kolkata/at-home-with-the-bauhaus/story-kLwp69R1IBUxCS806vfyEM.html


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

28 Aug 2022Glance at Culture - Dr. Henry Greenspan On Listening to Holocaust Survivors, Memory, Psychology, the Warsaw Ghetto and Minimalist Theatre01:00:10

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Please visit Dr. Greenspan's website to learn more.

Show Notes:

00:00 impression of survivor about Greenspan’s representation of their story 

03:00 1970s interview for psychologist 

04:20 depth rather than breadth of his interviews with Holocaust survivors

6:25 collaborative meetings with survivors

7:00 Agi Rubin described good interviews as learning together

9:00 Process of creating courses, books, plays from conversations with survivors

13:45 Greenspan’s dissertation topic on this became his life’s work

15:10 Agi Rubin: I’m not a “Survivor” as a category.

18:35 On Listening to Holocaust Survivors: Beyond Testimony

19:00 Leon’s recollection of murder of Paul Lieberman

22:10 Leon’s correction that his recollection is not a story; it must be made a story

25:30 Remnants  

29:50 Reflections: Auschwitz, Memory and a Life Recreated

35:40 Death/Play or the Mad Jester of the Warsaw Ghetto

41:20 source material for Death/Play or the Mad Jester of the Warsaw Ghetto

44:40 short play Gravediggers involving the Ukraine 

47:20 Greenspan’s view of injustice 

48:00 His work is ‘disposable people’ studies

49:40 Corruption

53:00 what we do together is where hope is

53:45 per Agi Rubin, legacy is not up to her


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

20 Nov 2022Glance at Culture - Peter Kupfer on his book "The Glassmaker's Son"00:56:21

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The Glassmaker's Son is available here. Please visit Peter Kupfer's website to learn more.

Show Notes:
3:00 Kupfer’s description of The Glassmaker’s Son 

5:00 Kupfer exploration of identity 

6:30 Kupfer’s name change 

7:45 paternal family history in Germany prior to WWII

10:00 1979 first visit to Bavaria

11:00 NY attorney for Kupfer’s father

12:00 1937 passenger list that includes Kupfer’s father

13:00 Kupfer’s grandfather

14:30 Kupfer’s grandfather in Terezin

15:25 Kupfer Villa sold 

16:50 letters between Mr. Kupfer’s father and grandfather regarding escape from Nazis

19:00 Kupfer’s glassmaking business 

24:00 last meeting of Kupfer business

26:00 mixed feelings when meeting Germans who knew Kupfer family prior to/during WWII

29:00 level of anti-semitism in Germany

31:00 German school education on Holocaust 

32:30 importance of visiting concentration camps

33:30 Terezin Concentration Camp

37:30 efforts to seek return of ancestral portraits

44:00 post-war restitution claims

46:30 how his story addresses justice

47:45 legacy he hopes his book has

49:00 his definition of justice confirmed after exploring his family history

50:50 most surprising aspect of his research for this book

53:00 Stolperstein ceremony honors Kupfer’s family on November 22, which is also the release day of The Glassmaker’s Son


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

19 Jun 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Artist Julia Wolfthorn00:04:03

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The following are links used to prepare this episode:

https://verlorene-generation.com/en/kuenstler/julie-wolfthorn/

https://www.lostwomenart.de/en/artist/julie-wolfthorn/

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Julie_Wolfthorn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Wolfthorn


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

14 Aug 2022Richard Harwood, QC, On Contested Heritage: Removing Art From Land and Historic Buildings with Co-Host Emily Gould00:58:48

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For those interested in obtaining a copy of Contested Heritage Removing Art From Land and Historic Buildings by Richard Harwood QC, Catherine Dobson and David Sawtell, please visit the publisher’s website and use code P8W4VZ for a 10% discount.

Show Notes:
00:00 overview of Contested Heritage – Removing Art From Land and Historic Buildings

2:10 Lucien Freud mural of flower; removed from a house that was a listed building

3:14 Rustat Memorial plaque at Jesus College chapel

5:00 What is meant by contested heritage

5:50 co-authors Catherine Dobson and David Sawtell

6:00 dispute over public memorialization of certain person/events 

8:20 whether work is part of building/who owns/to what extent it’s subject to listed building control

9:05 Dill case

10:15 pair of 18th C. lead urns by Flemish sculptor John van Nost in Wrest Park

12:00 2015 - planning authority learn urns not at Idlicote House; issue enforcement notice for their return

17:20 regulatory issues/export licensing 

17:50 property ownership

19:00 Old Flo case

19:30 London Borough of Tower Hamlets v. London Borough of Bromley

19:40 Henry Moore statue Draped Seated Woman

21:20 purpose of annexation 

27:00 listed building control

28:00 main considerations for authorities faced with application for removal of contested statue or other memorial or work of art

29:00 for listed buildings, strong presumption to protect special architectural/historic interest 

30:00 Public Sector Equality Duty

31:00 Jen Reid statute appeal

32:35 Rustat Memorial case 

37:40 Colston case 

38:40 Colston – late 17th C. deputy governor of Royal African Company ran slave trade/benefactor of Bristol

40:45 ‘Colston 4’ trial – individuals charged with criminal damage/acquitted

41:00 acquittal now on appeal by Attorney General’s reference on lawfulness of some lines of defence run, including question of right to freedom of expression and extent that can justify attacking property

41:45 ‘retain and explain’ policy

43:10 changes to planning and listed building procedures 

44:35 Cecil Rhodes statues and other memorials in Oxford

46:35 Rhodes commemorative plaque in Oxford recently listed by Secretary of State 

46:45 increased public awareness about these issues 

47:15 Arts education charity, Art UK recent catalogue of 13,500 British public sculpture - only 2% commemorate people of colour

48:35 public art 

49:45 Old Flo example of post-war public authority support for public art

50:00 developers recently encouraged to include public art, e.g., Desert Quartet Sculptures by Dame Elisabeth Frink placed in back of Worthing shopping center and now a listed building

51:50 Ulster Defence Regiment memorial in Lisburn, N. Ireland includes a female 

53:00 National Windrush Monument in Waterloo Station commemorates arrival of Caribbean migrants after WWII

54:20 political issues about colonialism and empire involved with cultural heritage dispute


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

03 Jul 20222ND Saturday Art + Justice Bonus: Artist & Law Student Yelena Khajekian on Cultural Heritage Restitution and the Best Path Forward00:03:32

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The featured image is titled red light, acrylic on canvas, 9"x12", Yelena Khajekian. Image: © and TM Yelena Khajekian. All rights reserved.
 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

24 Jul 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Artist Felka Platek00:04:24

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The following are links used in preparation of this episode:

https://verlorene-generation.com/en/kuenstler/felka-platek/

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/pdf-drupal/en/education/newsletter/yv_magazine18_10-11.pdf

http://www.find-felka-find-felix.info/index_en.html

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/news-archive/international-auschwitz-committee-commemorates-artist-couple-felka-platek-and-felix

https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/general/felix-nussbaum.html

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/nussbaum/about_nussbaum.asp

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

04 Sep 20222ND Saturday Art + Justice Bonus: Artist & Attorney Gina McKlveen00:07:08

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The featured image is titled Peggy Cooper Cafritz (2020), acrylic on canvas, 16"x20", Gina McKlveen. Image: © and TM Gina McKlveen. All rights reserved.

Peggy Cooper Cafritz grew up in Mobile, Alabama under Jim Crow laws during the days of racial segregation in the Southern United States of America. She moved to Washington, DC in 1964 to attend college at The George Washington University, where she was instrumental in creating organizations for Black students on campus. Continuing her education at George Washington University Law School, she graduated with her Juris Doctor degree in 1971. Cafritz was significantly involved in the arts community while she was a student, serving on boards, chairing committees, and planning several festivals in the nation's capital. However, Cafritz solidified her support for the arts when she co-founded the Duke Ellington School of the Arts, a public high school located in Washington, DC that focuses on arts education. Throughout her lifetime, Cafritz developed an extensive art collection primarily of works by artists of African descent as a means to address the absence and confront the erasure of Black history in the United States. She passed away in 2018, gifting portions of her art collection between the Duke Ellington School of the Arts in DC and the Studio Museum in Harlem, NY. 



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Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

02 Oct 20222ND Saturday Bonus: Artist & Attorney Stefania Salles Bruins on the Issue of Removing Cultural Heritage from Its Homeland00:02:00

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Cover Image: "The Boardroom Was Taken", oil on aluminum, 28"x22" Copyright Stefania Salles Bruins 2022.


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To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

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Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

21 Aug 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Artist Helene von Taussig00:04:03

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This episode was prepared with information included here.


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

09 Oct 2022Artist Ben Kinmont on Experimenting With What Art Can Be, Antiquarian Bookselling, Economic Precarity, Artists' Contracts & More01:02:53

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Cover image: Ben Kinmont and the Antinomian Press at Section Seven Books, Paris, printing Project Series: Lee Lozano.

For more information, please visit the websites for Antinomian Press, Ben Kinmont Bookseller, Ben Kinmont's projects and his gallery page.

SHOW NOTES:

0:00 artist / attorney collaboration

3:30 initial art practice in NYC 

3:50  work with antiquarian bookseller focused on medicine/science

4:20 antiquarian bookselling business - Sometimes a nicer sculpture is to be able to provide a living for your family

5:00 Occupational realism - term by Julia Bryant Wilson

5:35 Kinmont’s practice included painting, video, sculpture, photography 

5:50 NYC/Cologne street project I am for you, ich bin fur sie - 3  sculptures

6:15 “The Social Sculpture” - Joseph Beuys

6:40 ‘The Thinking Sculpture’ - William James 

7:10 cognitive process as a sculptural process

7:25 “The Third Sculpture”

8:00 I Am For You 

9:00 Christo’s public projects about conversations with farmers/coastal commission 

10:35 The Materialization of Life Into Alternative Economies 

11:45 Antinomian Press 

14:40 economic precarity subtheme

15:10 theme of art in everyday life, what we can and can’t call art

16:00 Borders of what can and cannot be called art 

17:45 NYU Draper Institute lecture to grad class of anthropology 

19:00 cultural differences in interviewing NYC and Cologne individuals

21:15 archives of his projects led to his interest in contracts and Promised Relations: or, thoughts on a few artists’ contracts

24:20 Tilted Arc contract 

24:30 Felix Gonzalez-Torres’ certificates

25:30 Kinmont’s contract

25:40 Attorney Jerry Ordover

25:55 Seth Seigelab and Bob Projansky artist contract

29:45 MoMA Department of Prints and Drawing’s purchase of Antinomian Press archive

31:40 why artists shy from contracts

36:45 circa 1990 - Trust as Sculpture – strangers invited to waffle breakfast in Kinmont’s home 

38:15 understand history to create discourse around your experience

40:00 feedback from An Exhibition In Your Mouth

41:45 social/political meaning behind the study of gastronomy

42:50 Inter-sectionality of gastronomy with women’s studies, economic history, ethnography, class, medicine, health

44:40 Gastronomy and Economic Precarity

45:50 FBI’s attacks on the Black Panther’s Free Breakfast Programs

46:50 San Quintin death row inmate’s inquiry about publishing  Death Row Cookbook

48:50 his projects addressing injustice  

50:25 Ethical Considerations in Project Art Practice 

51:10 justice

51:50 2011 Carl Andre Killed His Wife Ana Mendieta

53:00 Olivier Mosset bought and later returned it

54:25 Andre’s involvement in Art Workers Coalition Group/work using proletariat mater


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

23 Oct 2022Glance at Culture - Marie-Christin Gebhardt on the Museum "Art of the Lost Generation"00:58:57

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To learn more, please visit the website for Museum Art of the Lost Generation.

SHOW NOTES:

2:10 Dr. Böhme's collection

2:50 2nd Generation of Modern Artists 

3:00  Corinth,  Beckmann,  Klee,  Kokashka 

4:00 Museum’s goal to find/research Lost Generation artists 

4:50 Salzburg

5:00 Using Brush and Paint Against the Time 

5:20 Exhibition poster image – 1955 self-portrait by Heinrich Emil Adametz studied at Hamburg School of Arts and Crafts

5:50 1933 Heinrich Emil Adametz was banned

6:00 1945 Heinrich Emil Adametz returned to Berlin

7:00 exhibition on destinies of female artists  

7:15 Until end of WWI, women were denied access to universities and art colleges

1933 –  Jacobis refused to close school; fled to NY/re-opened school

9:30 1889 Felka Platek born in Warsaw

9:40 1923 - Platek moved to Berlin

9:50 Nussbaum

11:45 Felka and Felix 

12:00 Frankfurt artist Hanna Becker Van Rath

12:40 Van Rath’s Blue House in Germany 

13:00 We Haven’t Seen Each Other In So Long  

14:00 Provenance research 

14:50 Digitization aids in research 

15:20 Provenance research defines them as a museum 

17:00 sponsoring program

17:30 Frankfurt Artist Ruth Camp’s portrait of woman

18:00 Canvases by Heinrich Esser found in attic 

18:20 Three People by Esser

19:40 Posthumous political Portrait of Dr. Friedrich Maase (1878-1959) by Gert Heinrich Wollheim 

21:00 Female Destinies 

21:45 Future of museum - coming to terms with past by focusing on artists/their fates

22:30 combines art history with contemporary history 

23:00 Museum to be part of the movement to create justice for these artists 

23:40 visitor comments and press feedback 

25:05 library 

26:00 Meet Me in Paris Exhibition 

27:45 female artists seeking education in Paris

29:00 Paris co-ed classes

29:50 nude works by Martha Bernstein and Rudolf Levy

30:20 Montparnasse cafe scene

31:15 1933 Paris as a safe haven from National Socialists – life in exile

32:00 Occupied Paris

33:20 Russian artist Samuel Granovsky - worked with pastels/spatula

35:50 Granovsky nicknamed Cowboy of Montparnasse

36:45 Matisse student Martha Bernstein; 1911 Female Nude in Atelier

38:20 Bernstein became part of Berlin Secession 

38:50 Malweiber (painting women) mocking term for female artists 

40:30 Adolf Da Haer’s 1940 On the Beach; shifted from expressionism to conservative natural approach

43:45 Mack Koch – ex of inner immigration 

46:45 Koch’s 1930 Woman With Pipe

48:45 Häfner family 

49:55 Herbert Häfner’s 1935 Portrait of Miss Lilo Jüngst

52:35 Ilse Häfner-Mode’s Portrait of a Woman in front of a Wooden Door

54:20 Thomas Häfner’s Fantasy Landscape with Mask

56:00 Ilsa Häfner’s ink drawings while interned 

56:30 feedback

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

21 Feb 2023*BONUS* "Restoration" from Elicit Justice: Conversations Off Grid00:04:23

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"Restoration" musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2023.

Cover art: excerpt from Consequence, oil on panel, Stephanie Drawdy, copyright 2022.

The following are the featured episode excerpts from Warfare of Art and Law:

Episode 34: Professor Ziva Amishai-Maisels

Episode 48: Columbia Law School's Inaugural Artist-In-Residence Bayeté Ross Smith

Episode 102: Retired Police Captain and Artist Charles Vincent Sabba, Jr.

Episode upcoming: Dr. Christoph Kreutzmüller from the #lastseen project





Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

17 Sep 2023Glance at Culture - Dr. Christoph Kreutzmüller and Katharina Menschick Discussing the #lastseen Project's Analysis of Nazi Deportation Photographs00:38:19

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To learn more, please visit the website for the #lastseen project.

SHOW NOTES:

0:00 Katharina Menschick on the response to #lastseen project

3:00 Menschick – research associate in Arolsen Archives’ historical research department dealing with digital memory projects, digital archival projects and archival theory

3:20 Dr. Christoph Kreutzmüller – historian with Arolsen Archives and House of the Wannsee Conference in Berlin

3:45 mission of the #lastseen initiative

5:00 missing deportation photographs 

6:00 deportation photographs found by American GI and returned during Nuremberg trials

7:00 request for deportation photographs

7:20 types of deportation photographs 

8:30 Eisenach deportation – Magda Katz 

9:00 U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum research – donor identified uncle in photograph 

11:15 deportation from Dr. Kreutzmüller’s hometown

12:30 questions about why photographers took the deportation photos

13:00 spectatorship / audience of the photographs

14:20 importance of photographs as a historical source

14:45 virtual interactive educational resource

16:45 German high school pupils’ assistance in developing educational resource

18:10 difficulty of discussing bystanders 

19:30 photographs invite reflection 

22:00 historical transparency by telling what they don’t know 

25:00 giving context to photographs 

28:30 gaze of those photographed

29:15 propaganda film in Warsaw Ghetto

30:20 legacy of their work 

32:15 definition of justice – striving for fairness

33:00 real restoration cannot be achieved

34:00 doing justice to the photographs and to those in the photographs

34:45 restitution through archives 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

18 Sep 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Artist Elfriede Lohse-Wächtler00:04:58

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Nothing But Art by Regine Sondermann and the following links were used in preparation of this episode:

https://www.lostwomenart.de/en/artist/elfriede-lohse-wachtler/

https://womeningermanexpressionism.com/2018/07/11/elfriede-lohse-wachtler/

https://gseart.com/artist/elfriede-lohse-wachtler/bio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heWql2celU


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

18 Dec 2022Glance at Culture - Rachel Stern on the Fritz Ascher Society, Inner Emigration & Art's Power to Create a Better World00:43:34

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Please visit  Fritz Ascher Society's website and YouTube channel to learn more.

Show Notes:
2:00 mission of The Fritz Ascher Society for Persecuted, Ostracized and Banned Art

3:45 Fritz Ascher’s life and work

8:30 open composition of Ascher’s 1968 Trees in Hilly Landscape compared with blocked tree compositions circa 1940 

11:15 recent discovery of portraits by Ascher

14:40 art historic term ‘inner emigration’

15:45 Ascher’s poetry as ‘unpainted paintings’

17:50 Artist Jeanne Mammen

19:35 Artists Lea and Hans Grundig

23:00 Art For No One exhibition in Frankfurt, Germany

26:40 creation of Fritz Ascher Society to highlight unknown artists 

29:30 Identity, Art and Migration online exhibition 

34:15 Felix Nussbaum’s work and Felix Nussbaum Haus in Osnabrück, Germany

35:15 founding director of Felix Nussbaum Haus Inge Jaehner

35:40 curator of Felix Nussbaum Haus Anne Schwetter 

36:30 Nussbaum’s wife, Felka Platek

38:00 post-war focus communist control and Cold War

38:40 her work to create historical justice for these artists and educating about these artists in order to put them into their context

39:40 justice through telling stories of minorities 

40:40 legacy 

41:20 power of art to initiate discussion and to help create a better world 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

20 Aug 2023Glance at Culture - Michael Rohd on Theatre Arts, Social Cohesion, Social-Based Arts Programs and Civic Imagination00:58:03

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To learn more, please visit the sites for Sojourn Theatre, One Nation/One Project, and the Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration exhibition

Cover Photograph: "Rohd co-facilitating an arts convening in Boston this past fall with Nicole Brewer and musicians from Silkroad Ensemble"

Show Notes:

3:45 Rohd’s background

4:50 'Hope is Vital' project in DC area

7:00 Sojourn Theatre

10:10 2003 disruption in Oregon legislature

11:50 'Witness Our Schools' project - role of public education today 

14:30 impact of bringing voices in and building relationships for a different kind of dialogue

15:15 criteria for success of arts-based work around civic issues 

16:10 One Nation / One Project rooted in post-Great Depression Federal Theater project

22:15 local community involvement centered on building relationships

25:30 approach to critics of social-based arts programs

28:10 Center for Performance and Civil Practice (CPCP) - collective of 9 

33:45 Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration exhibition with Arizona State University Art Museum Director Miki Garcia (Episode 79)

37:45 choreography / dramaturgy for Undoing Time

40:20 questions posed in Undoing Time

42:10 future project for the cards created from Undoing Time 

44:45 aspect of justice included in the question he focuses on: who are we responsible for?

47:30 influence of teachers that led Rohd to his current work

49:50 legacy 

51:30 Co-Lab for Civic Imagination in Montana

53:50 ‘Communities of Care’ model

54:15 Definition of Civic Imagination - like functional democracy




Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

22 Jan 2023Glance at Culture - Nnebundo Obi on Apartheid, Social Justice, and the #RhodesMustFall Movement00:58:27

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Cover Photograph: Mr. Sparks: A Quest for Truth & Reconciliation, Copyright Nnebundo Obi 2022.

Nnebundo Obi's presentation is available here. To learn more about Nagel Institute's Engaging African Realities project, please visit the following link.

Show Notes:
0:00 South African revolutionary Robert Sobukwe

3:20 Nagel Institute Research Associate - Engaging African Realities Project 

Presentation from annual conference in Capetown 

4:05 Slide 2 - former S. African President Nelson Mandela’s cell at Robben Island

4:20 history of Robben Island, see slide 2

5:30 escapee from Robben Island David Stuurman

6:10 First female political prisoner on Robben Island, Krotoa or Eva 

7:10 1961, Robben Island used as prison for non-white political activists exclusively 

8:30 one letter and one visit per year for inmates at Robben Island

9:25 Hard labour in the limestone quarry

10:00 tour of Robben Island per Mr. Sparks, former inmate and current tour guide at Robben Island -  slide 4

12:40 Puzamandla: The “energy giving drink”, a hidden poison

14:00 Mr. Sparks gives testimony about his suffering at Robben Island to free himself

14:50 Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden - see slide 5

15:00 Lion’s Head, Tabletop Mountain Range - see slide 6

15:30 1800s creation of Van Riebeeck’s Hedge to mark Dutch property, shown at slide 6

16:10 Boulder’s Penguin Colony

16:25 history of apartheid - see slide 8

17:20 - 1979 “total strategy” 12 point plan to crush opposition to apartheid

18:20 1996 Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) established by Nelson Mandela

18:45 hearings for restorative justice

19:20 1977 founding of MEDU Art Ensemble 

20:30 female anti-pass protestors - see slide 10

22:30 1956 women’s march - see slide 11

23:00 Judy Sideman, member of MEDU Art Ensemble from 1980—1985  - see slide 11

24:20 MEDU Art Ensemble history - see slide 12

27:00 MEDU Art Ensemble posters - see slides 9, 12, 13

29:00 MEDU Art Ensemble targeted by the South African defense force

30:15 the power of testimony and collaboration and importance of mobilizing and gathering strength from community

30:45 University of Capetown

31:00 - 2015 ‘RHODES MUST FALL’ movement to remove the statue of British Imperialist Cecil Rhodes at the University of Cape Town - see slide 14

34:20 impact of removing statues like those of Cecil Rhodes 

38:00 impact of MEDU Art Ensemble on end of apartheid

39:00 Terrorism Act 

39:45 MEDU's community outreach 

41:45 Cohesion and single-minded vision of MEDU 

42:30 Nnebundo’s way of engaging with social justice issues

44:20 definition of justice

49:00 Netflix docu-series How To Become a Tyrant 

51:00 Jan Felman’s comments

51:40 Stefania Salles-Bruins’ comments 

53:25 Jarnick Vitters’ comments 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

11 Dec 2022M.C. Sungaila on her Journey as an Appellate Attorney, Author and Creator & Host of the Portia Project Podcast01:19:07

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To learn more, please visit the websites for M.C. Sungaila, the Portia Project podcast, and Mother's Thoughts For the Day.

Show Notes:
3:00 Overview of M.C. Sungaila’s work

5:00 US v. Lanier, 520 U.S. 259 (1997)

9:00 González et al. (“Cotton Field”) v. Mexico in the Interamerican Court of Human Rights

11:30 factors considered in drafting appellate briefs 

14:30 her work on Holocaust art recovery cases began with Randy Schoenberg in Republic of Austria v. Altmann 

16:00 procedural hurdles for heirs in Holocaust art recovery cases

18:00 Zuckerman cert petition raised questions about the meaning of the HEAR Act and how state equitable doctrines should interplay with the HEAR Act

20:00 potential issues surrounding drafting of HEAR Act

21:30 developing issue of how forced sales fit into Holocaust art recovery 

22:40 Cassirer v. Kingdom of Spain, et al

25:30 Federal Republic of Germany, et al v. Philipp aka the Guelph Treasure case

30:25 Andy Warhol Foundation v. Goldsmith

39:20 need for procedural and substantive fairness in U.S. Legal system

41:40 mission of the Portia Project Podcast

49:40 Portia Project documentary 

54:00 Girls Inc episode of the Portia Project

56:00 Sungaila’s mother as one of her role models

57:40 Judge Dorothy Nelson and Judge Ferdinand Fernandez of the 9th Circuit

57:50 Judge Alicemarie Stotler, Chief Judge of the Central District of California 

58:45 Sungaila’s publishing of Mother’s Thoughts For the Day

1:02:00 Mother’s Thoughts For the Day self-guided journal and merchandise 

1:04:40 how Sungaila’s book publishing led to the Portia Project 

1:07:00 advice for mind-management and time-management 

1:10:50 what justice looks like or should look like to Sungaila

1:13:35 the theme of her work is the importance and power of the individual 

1:14:50 three of Sungaila’s favorite quotes from her mother that relate to making your own mark and persisting 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

19 Feb 2023Glance at Culture - Dr. Suzanne Evans on Womens' Stories, Propaganda During War, Creativity and Survival00:56:24

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To learn more, please visit the website for Dr. Suzanne Evans.

Show Notes:

0:00 Suzanne Evans’ hope for the legacy she is creating to tell and compel more women’s stories

1:35 Evans’ degree in philopshy lead to teaching English in China

2:30 Evans’ writing themes are women in Canada and women in war and religion

2:40 Canadian International Development Agency to organize educational briefings for Canadians going to work overseas

4:00 PhD in religious studies

4:40 martyrdom

5:20 Palestinian mother/martyr

6:00 Mothers of Heroes, Mothers of Martyrs: WWI and the Politics of Grief

7:00 Silver Cross mother and its development 

8:00 how soldiers of war were presented in the media 

8:20 post-doctoral fellowship at the Canadian War Museum to study stories of Canadian women and war

9:40 diary of WWI masseuse 

10:00 study of physio-therapist in WWI and WWII

11:40 occupational therapy, including basketweaving, for wounded WWI veterans

12:30 Changi quilts made in Singapore’s Changi jail overtaken by Japanese

13:15 Ethel Mulvany’s Starving Prisoners of War Cookbook

14:45 research for The Taste of Longing: Ethel Mulvany and Her Starving Prisoners of War Cookbook

22:20  couple housed by Mulvany 

24:15 Museum on Manitoulin Island 

27:45 Mulvany’s suffering from bipolar disorder

28:45 how women’s stories from the war have been downgraded

32:00 recommended reading: Freddy Bloom’s Dear Philip: A Diary of Captivity, Changi, 1942-45

32:35 Mary Thomas’ In the Shadow of the Rising Sun

32:35 P.C. B. Newington’s Good Food

33:45 record-keeping from the WWII era

36:00 treatment of Mulvany for her mental illness 

37:00 electric shock therapy without sedatives

37:20 insulin therapy treatment in India

38:15 War Claims Commission’s medical records for Mulvany

40:00 virtual feasts for book launch during pandemic

43:15 use of propaganda in WWI and WWII

45:40 upcoming cookbook project 

46:10 Five Roses Enriched Floor Cookbook 

49:00 Evans’ definition of justice 

50:00 Walter Allward's statue of justice

52:45 Per Allward: "Through truth and justice, war might cease and peace would descend over the earth."

53:20 Persons case in 1928 - Canada’s Supreme Court denied women could be deemed “persons”; overturned by Judicial Privy Counsel 

54:25 “justice is shifting in our time…I don’t want my justice to be blindfolded; I want her to be far sighted so that she can see change and adapt.”

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

16 Oct 2022Scrivener's Gazette Bonus - Artist Else Berg00:03:37

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The following are links used to prepare this episode:

https://verlorene-generation.com/en/kuenstler/berg-else/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Else_Berg

http://www.arthurkampf.de/biographie/arthur-kampf-biographie_en.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mommie_Schwarz

To view rewards for supporting the podcast, please visit Warfare's Patreon page.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast, please email Stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. 

© Stephanie Drawdy [2022]

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

06 Nov 20222ND Saturday Bonus: Getty Docent Howard Turner on the Question of Human Remains in Museum Collections00:03:20

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The following are links used to prepare this episode:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/our-work/departments/human-remains
https://www.getty.edu/art/collection/object/103WN2

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

05 Nov 2023Glance at Culture - Martha Szabo's NYC Solo Exhibition & MSeum's Celebration of Unknown Female Artists00:54:31

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Cover art: Martha Szabo, Rooftops in Snow 11, oil on linen, 24 x 35 in., circa 1964

To learn more, please visit the sites for Martha Szabo and MSeum.

Show Notes:

0:00 Art historian Kathleen Hulser

1:30 Journalist Julia Szabo’s motivation to work on Martha Szabo’s body of work

4:30 MSeum to be built in the Catskills

5:00 National Association of Women in Construction

7:50 Justice for unknown female artists

11:15 Museum’s mission related to blind and low-vision visitors

13:45 Sculpture Robin Antar’s limestone sculpture of Szabo’s “Red Sunset”

15:20 Legacy to be created with MSeum includes redefining storage

16:45 Visible storage space

18:30 Julia Szabo’s parents

19:45 ‘Mother Artist’ field of scholarship

20:00 Author Hettie Judah

21:20 Reception for Martha Szabo’s exhibition Up On the Roof

22:10 Artist Christina Massey

23:20 Museum’s director Kathleen Hulser

24:30 “Up On the Roof” exhibition curated by Hulser

26:00 “Incorrigibles” trans media project

27:45 MSeum’s creation and mission

34:15 Hulser’s scope a MuSeum

36:45 Martha Szabo’s background and how it impacted her work 

43:15 Feedback about Martha Szabo’s solo exhibition Up On The Roof: Liberation, Transformation, Celebration

49:35 MSeum and exhibitions like “Up On The Roof” role in bringing some historical justice for female creatives

52:10 David Richard Gallery


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

07 May 2023Careers in Art & Law - A 2ND Saturday Conversation00:52:20

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Please visit the following links to learn more:
Queen Mary’s LLM in Art, Business and Law and the Institute of Art and Law

Show Notes:

1:00 Stephanie Drawdy - introduction

1:20 Emily Gould - overview of the Institute of Art and Law (IAL)

5:20 Gould’s background

7:35 careers in art law practice

9:35 Janan Foster - background and experience with Art, Business and Law LLM

11:35 Chiara Gallo - background and experience with Art, Business and Law LLM

15:40 Jane (Chang Yue) Liu - experience with Siena program and internship with IAL

18:40 Chelsea Conyers - experience with Siena program and internship with IAL

20:35 Gina McKlveen - experience as an artist, law student and now lawyer

27:40 Gould on IAL blog

28:40 Alan Robertshaw

29:10 McKlveen’s beginning interest in art and law

30:15 Jerry Alonzo’s experience in the law and arts

34:10 Charles Sabba’s experience in the military, law enforcement and the arts

43:05 Nnebundo Obi

44:45 Charles Sabba

45:40 Emily Gould re: interdisciplinary nature of art law cases

46:35 Alan Robertshaw’s law practice


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

22 Dec 2022*BONUS* "Prejudice" from Elicit Justice: Conversations Off Grid00:04:37

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"Prejudice" musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2022.

Cover art: excerpt from Consequence, oil on panel, Stephanie Drawdy, copyright 2022.

"Prejudice" features episode excerpts from Warfare of Art and Law in the following order:

Episode 75: David de Jong on his book Nazi Billionaires and his call for Historical Transparency from Families that control brands like BMW, Porsche, Volkswagen, Dr. Oetker, Bahlsen, Allianz and Munich Re

Episode 34: Glance at Culture - The Holocaust in Modern Art: Professor Ziva Amishai-Maisels on Artists Picasso, Chagall, Rothko, Bacon and more

Episode 71: Dr. Joanna Sliwa On Holocaust Distortion, Poland's ‘Politics of Memory’, Jewish Childhood in Kraków, an Undercover Jewess Who Negotiated with the Nazis, and a Legacy to Inspire Future Scholars of All Genocide

Episode 85: Glance at Culture - Ella Nowicki on Incarceration, Art and Defining Justice in Terms of Accountability

Episode 49: Glance at Culture - A Conversation with Art Historian and Author Dr. Laura Morelli on Historical Justice and Historical Fiction

Episode 83: ASU Art Museum Director Miki Garcia On Art's Power to Address Inherited Notions About Mass Incarceration, the Undoing Time Exhibition, and Justice As Public Love 

Episode 62: Glance at Culture - Ukrainian-American Artist Mira Hnatyshyn on Ukrainian History & Heritage, Art as Protest and Creating a Community of Empathy

Episode 17: Mosse Art Restitution Project: Director of Investigations J. Eric Bartko On the Washington Principles and Restitution Efforts In Poland, Israel, Russia and the Netherlands

Episode 92: Glance at Culture - Journalist and Author Peter Kupfer on his book "The Glassmaker's Son"

Episode 11: Max Stern Art Restitution Project: Dr. Willi Korte On Restitution of Nazi-Looted Art, Sales Under Duress, and the German Advisory Commission

Episode 73: Glance at Culture - Author Menachem Kaiser on His Book Plunder, His Research and Property Claim in Poland, the Vilna Ghetto and the Frustrating Design of Judicial Systems 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

08 Jan 2023Deadria Farmer-Paellmann on the Restitution Study Group, Slavery Justice and the Benin Bronzes' Hidden History Related to the Slave Trade01:16:40

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Please visit the following to view the Benin Bronzes and to learn more about the Restitution Study Group.

Show Notes:

00:00 manillas used to trade for slaves as documented by Alan Ryder in Benin and the Europeans

02:50 mission and work of Restitution Study Group to fight for slavery justice

03:20 RSG’s focus on corporations, private estates and governments that were complicit in slavery

03:45 RSG’s suits against insurance companies for slavery policies

06:00 RSG’s suits against banks like J.P. Morgan Chase

0:630 RSG’s suits included consumer fraud and human rights arguments

07:30 DNA testing used by RSG 

08:30 DNA results and TransAtlantic Slave Trade Database used to trace ancestry

08:50 RSG’s action filed for genocide compensation efforts

09:35 the Proxmire Act, Genocide Convention Implementation Act of 1987

12:30 RSG’s suit against the Smithsonian Institution over the Benin Bronzes

14:40 1896 massacre of British soldiers 

15:30 Kingdom of Benin’s practice of sacrifice 

16:15 RSG’s demand for a share of the Benin Bronzes

17:20 RSG’s meeting with Kingdom of Benin’s princess 

19:20 Charleston, SC

19:30 Jamaica

21:00 The Benin Monarchy: An Anthology by Oba Ewuare II Foundation (2018) 

21:55 Paula Girshik

22:25 Harz Mountains

23:50 Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of African Art's Ngaire Blankenberg  "confusion" on Kingdom of Benin's involvement in  slave trade 

24:45 per Dr. Paul Lovejoy, manillas were used in  slave traded and to make Benin Bronzes for 300 years

26:00 RSG’s allegations that Smithsonian is violating US law that requires consideration for transfer of the Bronzes outside the Smithsonian

28:00 Board of Regents vote on transfer of Benin Bronzes

30:30 11 October 2022 - Smithsonian’s scheduled transfer of Benin Bronzes 

31:30 Lack of media attention on this issue

31:50 Short film They Belong to All of Us

34:00 RSG’s suit against the Smithsonian is a restitution case

34:45 RSG’s efforts with institutions other than the Smithsonian

36:50 bronzes taken according to the laws of war

39:45 forensic research 

41:50 16th-19th Century Bronzes

42:15 Dan Hicks’ book The Brutish Museum

43:50 removing labels from the Bronzes

44:50 Oba Head gifted by Nigerian leader 

48:30 Benin City - hub of human trafficking 

51:20 African scholar Dr. Ibrahima Seck 

52:00 missing slave trade documentation for two main slave ports

54:00 one on one approach with American institutions

57:00 Petition submitted to UK’s Charities Commission

1:02:00 Smithsonian’s current holdings of Bronzes

1:04:00 RSG’s emergency motion

1:05:20 number of Bronzes in the U.S.

1:09:00 dual citizenship

1:11:00 Nigeria’s request for reparations 

1:11:50 definition of justice

1:14:00 opportunity for Nigeria to speak up

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

05 Mar 2023Charles Vincent Sabba, Jr. on Italian Cultural Patrimony, Art Theft, Isabella Stewart Gardner's Collection Practices, the Gardner Heist, the Getty's Failure to Return the Lysippos di Fano and more01:12:46

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Cover art - The Scream, fingerprint ink on police print card done in thumb print, 2" x 1-1/4", 2004 copyright Charles Vincent Sabba

The following are links for Charles Sabba's artwork, blog and articles with La Voce di New York.

Show Notes

0:00 Sabba’s great-grandfather

3:45 retired police captain

4:15 duCret School of Art in Plainfield, NJ

4:50 1986 - Austrialian Cultural Terrorists stole Weeping Woman by Picasso

6:20 NYPD Art Theft Investigator 

3:40 US Navy 

7:30 Naples, Italy

8:35 federal corrections’ witness protection unit

11:20 School of Visual Arts 

11:40 Betty Thompkins

11:44 Andrew Gensel

11:45 Anton van Dalen and his show at the PPOW Gallery 

12:25 Fred DePalma

13:00 influence of his police work on his art

14:30 documentary Defending the Peninsula

18:00 the era of power and money over cultural patrimony

18:40 Napoleon’s looting of Italy 

20:30 Monuments Men

21:55 1800s Papal Edict governing exportation of works from Italy 

22:30 1947 article 9 of Italy’s Constitution 

23:50 collection of Gardner Museum 

24:35 Vermeer’s The Concert purchased by Gardner

26:00 Getty Trust - fight over Euphronios Krater with the Met

27:45 Manhattan DA’s office April 2022 seizure

28:30 Lysippos di Fano Bronze

34:30 agreement to table discussion about return of Lysippos pending Italian court ruling

36:45 assertion that the Lysippos is Greek not Italian

39:30 status of request for return of Lysippos

39:50 History Channel television series Histories Greatest Heists with Pierce Brosnan

41:00 paint chips sent to Boston Herald related to Gardner Heist

44:00 1997 - William Youngworth negotiated with Gardner Museum for return of stolen works via prosecutors

45:45 Chicago-based Expert Walter McCrone determined paint chips were from Rembrandt.

48:35 1998 - Vermeer expert 

49:10 2003 - Dr. Hubert von Sonnenburg, Chairman of Paintings Conservation at The Met, found chips were consistent with the Vermeer

50:00 Dr. Jennifer Mass’ opinion about the Sonnenberg’s opinion on the paint chips 

52:30 Sabba’s painting practice reflects his interest in art crime - fingerprint paintings

53:50 Sabba’s portraits of individuals involved in art crime 

55:25 Art critic Jerry Saltz

56:30 Y Gallery

58:15 artists that speak to social issues, e.g., prison reform

1:01:25 Sophie Calle: Last Seen

1:02:05 climate activists’ attacks on soft targets

1:06:40 Justice defined

1:09:20 Legacy

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

21 May 2023Glance at Culture - Dr. Ashfaq Ishaq on the International Child Art Foundation, the World Children's Festival, the Child Art Magazine and CreativeEmpaths01:06:14

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To learn more, please visit the sites for International Child Art Foundation, World Children's Festival and the International Child Arts Olympiad (with coming plans for the Paris 2024 Olympics ).

Show Notes:
2:30 children’s creativity 

3:30 empathy needed due to moral neutrality of creativity 

4:30 adverse childhood experiences 

5:20 transgenerational transmission of trauma and hatred

6:00  the International Child Art Foundation’s Arts Olympiad and World’s Children Festival

8:40 creative-empaths

9:30 Arts Olympiad winners at National Mall in Washington, DC for World’s Children Festival

11:50 overview of Ishaq’s background and work at World Bank

13:10 why adult’s imagination dries up

13:30 the fourth grade slump

15:40 2013 book “The Creativity Revolution: Reinvent Your Creative Self to Shape the Future and Prosper”

17:30 1 of 5 types of creators: Native 

17:50 2 of 5 types of creators: Nomad

18:20 3 of 5 types of creators: Savant

18:55 4 of 5 types of creators: Empathic 

19:15 5 of 5 types of creators: Spiritual

20:20 Book mixes history, economics and neuroscience

22:30 collaborated with National Institute of Health on its ABCD Study

24:00 MRI studies show 7-12 year olds are age group most prone to empathy

26:20 Healings Art Program began after Asian tsunami 

29:10 Peace Through Art Program began after 9/11 attacks

31:10 ICAF’s collaboration on treasure hunt book “Xavier Marx and the Missing Masterpieces”

32:10 UN General Assembly’s efforts to revive human security campaign

35:40 ICAF has had approximately 5 million children participated in Arts Olympiad to date

38:30 American Academy of Arts and Sciences’s 2021 report on the attributes, values and skills that come from arts education, including social and emotional development, school engagement and civic and social participation

39:15 children from certain countries can’t participate, e.g., North Korea 

40:40 participants from African countries

41:10 blind musical group from Zimbabwe 

41:30 indigenous from New Zealand playing the a traditional dance of that country's Māori people, the haka 

42:40 ICAF;s current work and structured lesson plans

43:45 fall semester 2023 for next program

44:30 summer 2024 for next festival

46:30 scholarships

47:00 participants from Romania

48:30 social function of art

50:10 9/11 began his thought about moral neutrality of creativity 

53:00 upcoming festival project for partipants to create children’s earth flag for NASA’s first human mission to Mars

54:15 UN’s human securities artworks 

56:30 new mothers as supporters

57:00 ChildArt Magazine

58:00 magazine’s theme on the power of words, mindfulness, Metaverse, animal Art

59:20 Legacy 

1:00:00 pre-WWII, Olympics gave awards for the arts

1:00:50 Paris 2024 Olympics and LA 2028 Olympics

1:01:45 definition of justice


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

05 Feb 2023Nautilus Productions' Co-Founder Rick Allen On the Infamous Pirate Blackbeard, the Queen Anne's Revenge Shipwreck, Copyright Infringement, State Sovereign Immunity & Artists' Rights01:16:56

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Cover photo of Rick Allen - copyright Cindy Burnham, Lucky Shot Productions

To learn more, please visit Escapist Magazine's coverage about the copyright suit surrounding Queen Anne's Revenge and the U.S. Supreme Court's March 2020 decision in Allen, et al. v. Cooper, Governor of North Carolina, et al.

Show Notes:

September 2022 2ND Saturday Discussion:

1:04 Background of  Blackbeard and Queen Anne’s Revenge

4:00 Intersal handed shipwreck over to NC; kept media rights, replica rights

4:45 Allen’s shooting underwater footage to document recovery of shipwreck

5:50 Allen agreed to license his footage and give Intersal 25% gross profits from that

6:25 2013 - changes with new NC administration - NC had been using footage commercially

7:25 NC hired other production companies in violation of Intersal’s media rights

7:45 Intersal filed complaint in NC’s Office of Administrative Hearings 

7:55 Allen revoked NC’s rights to use Allen’s footage

8:00 Oct 2013 settlement w/ NC, Intersal and Allen

9:10 NC violations of settlement

935 2015 Blackbeard’s Law 

10:15 Dec 2015 - Allen's suit against NC 

10:45 Copyright Remedy Clarification Act

12:10 9-0 ruling by SCOTUS that CRCA was unconstitutional

13:50  Motion for Reconsideration

14:25 takings clause argument 

15:25 NC appealed district court’s grant of MFR to the 4th Circuit

16:00 summary of timeline

18:00 Jan Felman’s question 

20:20 Indiana suit sited Allen v. Cooper 

20:50 Michael Bynum’s suit against Texas A&M over copyright infringement

23:35 Andrew Smith’s question 

25:15 pattern by the state required - 16 cases cited by Allen of states violating copyrights

26:00 US copyright office verified 160 cases initiated against states for copyright violations

28:10 Emily Gould’s question 

31:30 Summary of points from Q&A

32:45 financial impact of a museum created for shipwreck on the NC community

36:20 Andrew Smith’s FU questions 

38:30 Gina McKlveen’s question 

43:23 Enid Lutswana’s question 

47:00 Update on Allen v. Cooper

47:51 January 2023 stay lifted; denied NC’s petition requesting court to reconsider granting motion for reconsideration; and granted request to file amended complaint 

49:00 NC’s Blackbeard Law alleged to be bill of attainder

51:00 Texas A&M case 

51:45 libraries to be charged fees by book publishers

52:25 Jim Olive lost sui

52:10 Indiana case 

54:15 TX Supreme Court in Olive 

55:30 Allen’s view of the precedent he’s creating

58:25 NC’s failure to reach out to settle suit

59:45 whether Allen’s view of justice has been jaded

01:01:30 chilling effect from NC’s position

01:03:50 definition of justice 

01:06:00  legacy

01:08:00  legal team

01:11:00 status of shipwreck 

01:11:30 Intersal’s suit 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

27 Jan 2023*BONUS* "Exposed" from Elicit Justice: Conversations Off Grid00:02:09

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"Exposed" musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2023.

Cover art: excerpt from Consequence, oil on panel, Stephanie Drawdy, copyright 2022.

The following are the featured episode excerpts from Warfare of Art and Law:

Episode 38: Glance at Culture - Defiant Requiem: Maestro Murry Sidlin on Terezín Concentration Camp, Verdi's Requiem, the Arts & Social Justice

Episode 27: Nazi Plundered Art: Nathan Diament On the Legacy of Artist J.D. Kirszenbaum (1900-1954)

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

18 Apr 2023*Bonus* "Exposed" (LP) from Elicit Justice: Conversations Off Grid00:04:11

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"Exposed" musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2023.

Cover art: excerpt from Consequence, oil on panel, Stephanie Drawdy, copyright 2022.

The following are the featured episode excerpts from Warfare of Art and Law:

Episode 38: Glance at Culture - Defiant Requiem: Maestro Murry Sidlin on Terezín Concentration Camp, Verdi's Requiem, the Arts & Social Justice

Episode 27: Nazi Plundered Art: Nathan Diament On the Legacy of Artist J.D. Kirszenbaum (1900-1954)

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

02 Apr 2023Dr. Randall Horton on the Collaborative Radical Reversal Project, Mass Incarceration, Reformation and Justice00:57:03

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Cover Image by Diane Allford

To learn more, please visit the sites for Randall Horton and Radical Reversal.

Show Notes:

00:00 Dr. Randall Horton’s work in poetry

02:00 Dr. Horton’s work as poet/writer, professor of English at University of New Haven, system-impacted 

03:10 Chicago State’s MFA program

03:20 Definition of Place by Horton

03:30 PhD in Poetry and Poetics from SUNY Albany

04:20 poetry avant-garde band Heros of Gang Leaders

05:00 Creative Capital proposal to put creative space in the carceral state

07:00 Suffolk County House of Corrections in Boston, Massachusetts

07:30 Radical Reversal 

08:30 pilot program in Burmingham, AL - Jefferson County Youth Detention Center 

8:55 Minnesota Prison Writers Workshop with Jennifer Bowen-Hicks

9:00 Boston’s Writers Without Margins with Cheryl Buchanan 

10:15 Jefferson County Youth Detention Center Director Monique Greer

17:20 workshops in Jefferson County Youth Detention Center

18:50  Little K - what if you don’t know no beautiful
21:00 Little E

22:10 Ain’t No Love In the Streets 

26:20 art as a guide 

28:00 partnering with Greer to continue pilot program

31:30 Radical Reversal’s space to stay in place going forward

32:30 Minnesota Department of Correction’s unit to have four recording booths

34:00 Radical Reading Series

34:30 Artist Masego

36:50 follow up work with individuals in the facility 

37:00 poem entitled Imagine 

41:00 collaboration with facility staff

42:00 The Road Less Traveled

46:30 poem entitled To Live and Die in Burmingham, Alabama published in London

49:00  inspired by Nietzsche’s 1887 On the Genealogy of Morality 

49:40 going after humanity and a moral compass

51:00 legacy created with his work and Radical Reversal 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

19 Mar 2023Glance at Culture - Artists' Talk about Upcoming NYC Group Show of Artists Who Work In or Study the Law00:46:50

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To learn more and view their work, please visit the sites for Stefania Salles Bruins, Nnebundo Obi and Geoffrey Stein.

0:00 Artist and attorney Geoff Stein describing his collage work

2:00 Artist and attorney Stefania Salles Bruins describes genesis of theme for “Portraits As Still Lives” group show

3:45 Stephanie Drawdy on her work for the group show

5:00 Stein on his perspective on the head as a subject 

6:00 Stein on his work in collage

9:30 Salles Bruins on symbolism in her work

11:40 Stein on letting work speak for itself

12:25 Stein on how his work during Iraq war was seen as painting of hostage

13:40 Salles Bruins’ experience with instructors at New York Academy of Art

14:30 Salomé with Head of John the Baptist inspiration for Salles Bruins

16:00 Salles Bruins’ self-portrait mimics Girl With Pearl Earring

18:00 projecting and gridding 

19:30 Artist and Negel Research Associate Nnebundo Obi on her portrait of her mother 

20:30 “Seeing Through My Third Eye” by Obi

22:30 Portrait of Obi’s father

26:00 Peter Drake’s use of slow dry medium to work in acrylic

27:25 “Take the Stinger Out Please” self-portrait copper etching by Obi 

29:40 companion copper etching by Obi

30:00 Stein on his collage portrait of Liz Cheney

33:10 Stein’s website features stop action video of the Cheney portrait in process

33:40 portrait of VP Harris

34:00 portrait of Pres Biden

35:00 use of photographs 

39:00 details in the Cheney portrait 

39:30 Milton Glaser

40:00 Stein’s preference for work that flips between plasticity and graphic flatness 

40:30 Obi’s experience with collage

41:50 Stein’s thought of collage as pieces of paint

42:30 sanding of collage

43:30 use of water on Xerox paper 

44:00 portrait of Obama 

45:00 photograph of newspaper headline of “Voters reject Cheney” from local paper used in Photoshop for use in Cheney portrait

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

04 Jun 2023Environmental Lawyer, King's Counsel and Artist Stephen Tromans Discussing his Golgotha Series on the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, His Practices of Law and Art, and Art's Role In Addressing Injustice00:37:08

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Cover image by Stephen Tromans: Climate Innocence, 1957, oil on board, 20x24 inches

To view Stephen Tromans' work, please visit Mr. Tromans' website and Instagram as well as Ely Cathedral's feature of his Golgotha series, the Cambridge Drawing Society's discussion of his work and the Gallery Holt.

Show Notes:
1:30 Troman’s choice to go into law, specifically environmental law
2:45 Lord Denning
3:30 Troman’s work as a painter
4:30 Diploma in oil painting
5:00 Influenced by Turner, Caravaggio, Goya
5:30 Scotland’s Joan Eardley
5:40 Royal Academician Fred Cuming
6:30 mixed media and collage
6:50 Hong Kong urbanscapes
9:20 Golgotha series
12:00 Ely Cathedral
15:00 feedback from Golgotha series
15:45 Ukrainian children and their toys as a focus in Golgotha series
18:00 future cathedral venues for Golgotha series
18:45 current work
20:20 environmentally-related art
22:00 Climate Innocence, 1957 - acceptance of pollution
23:00 Troman’s process
24:00 art’s function to speak to social issues
26:00 compliments between legal and creative work
28:50 legacy
31:30 definition of justice 
34:15 how Troman’s artwork speaks to justice
35:15 the power of Picasso’s Guernica

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

16 Apr 2023Glance at Culture - Ukraine War Museum's Milena Chorna Discusses the "Ukraine. Crucifix" Project, Artifacts of War and Russian Imperialism01:00:47

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To learn more, please visit the website for Ukraine's War Museum.

Cover photo by Viktor Byshev of the Church of the Nativity of the Holy Virgin in Peremoha that Russians attacked and damaged. Left in the photo is Dr. Yurii Savchuk and right is the clergyman from the Church, Oleksandr Yarmolchyk. 

Show Notes:

1:30 National Museum of the History of Ukraine in the Second World War 
2:00 War Museum’s exhibition on 24 February 2022
2:20 “Forever Free Ukraine” curated by Director General Dr. Yurii Savchuk 
4:00 War Museum’s removal of exhibitions on 24 February 2022
5:20 “Forever Free Ukraine” exhibition now in Lithuania
6:00 Ukrainian museum workers are mostly women
6:25 Swedish photographer of Polish descent Andrzej Markiewicz volunteered to document areas that were de-occupied 
7:00 33 field trips 
8:00 Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania
9:10 New York exhibition “Ukraine. Crucifix. Tribunal” 
9:15 Latvia exhibition “Ukraine. Crucifix. 360” 
9:35  message from exhibition “there always should come light”
10:00 Dr. Yurii Savchuk 
11:00 Designer/Artist Anton Logov
11:45 symbols from the Soviet Union
12:20 military helmets - star and “Lenin” 
12:50 insurgent army 1960s
13:15 boots symbol 
13:50 star symbol  
20:15 motivators for Russians to annihilate Ukrainian cultural heritage 
20:20 18th Century Ukrainian philosopher Hryhorii (Gregory) Skovoroda Museum
21:15 Russians targeting gold
21:30 Kyiv Pechersk Lavra, an 11th-century Orthodox cave monastery complex
22:15 Ukrainian established circa 11th C 
23:15 Maria Prymachenko-The Ivankiv Historical and Local History Museum
24:25 Ukraine Museum Crisis Center 
24:25  Ukraine Museum Crisis Center while working for the State Agency of Arts and Artistic Education focusing on developing artistic education 
25:00  Luhansk Museum of Local Lore Director Olesya Milovanova 
31:15: collaboration 
32:15 dealings with Russian museums
35:50 “Children…” memorial
36:50 “Tree of Life”
37:20 Ukrainian Museum of Canada
38:00 symbol of doors 
38:45 “United for Justice” exhibition 
39:20 New York exhibition 
39:45 door in exhibition is from  basement in Yahidne 
42:00 Crucifixion exhibition includes basement bomb shelter 
45:00 “United for Justice” exhibition
45:30 justice 
47:40 working trip to Holland in March 2023 
49:15 Russian civilians are the invaders
49:30 Hermitage director who justifies what’s going on should at least be punished by opinions of his colleagues 
49:45 Russia in ICOM and UN 
50:20 “If Russian Empire collapses - maybe that would be some kind of justice”
51:00 artefact from Kherson after it was de-occupied on November 11
51:30 flag 
52:50 feedback of civilians about exhibition 
54:45 feedback of soldiers about exhibition
55:40 commemoration days twice per month
56:50 mission
57:45 message to those outside Ukraine

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

06 Aug 2023Attorney, Author and Podcaster Jeremy Richter aka J.W. Judge Discusses His Legal and Writing Practices, Traditional versus Self Publishing, AI and More00:37:36

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To learn more, please visit the websites for Jeremy Richter, J.W. Judge, Scarlet Oak Press and The Write Approach podcast.

Show Notes:

1:00 Commercial litigation practice with Gordon Rees

4:00 Sustainable marketing and branding with writing law blog 

5:00 Speaking and presenting at conferences on legal topics

5:20 Writing legal non-fiction on case management, client development

6:20 2018 ABA published book Building A Better Law Practice, 2019 Self published 2nd and third books Stop Putting Out Fires and Level Up Your Law Practice: The Ultimate Guide to Being a Successful Lawyer 

7:40 August 2020 first novel Vulcan Rising

8:20 Research for family story from father’s side of family 

8:50 Grandfather’s father murdered his estranged wife and himself in 1940 

10:45 Research for second novel Seeking Sanctuary in The Zauberi Chronicles set in Germany’s Black Forest

14:30 Lawyerpreneur podcast ran from March 2020 to August 2022

16:50 The Write Approach podcast

18:45 Co-host Barbara Hinske
20:00 The Write Approach podcast episode 6: Dovetailing Creative Ideas and Smart Business Decisions with Kevin Tumlinson and reference to AI

20:45 AI changes

21:50 Chat GPT - rewrite of book blurb

22:40 Chat GPT-3 and Chat GPT-4

23:00 AI’s impact on jobs

24:00 AI for book cover ideas

24:25 Casual Business with Fairies

25:00 5th novel - Castaway meets a murder mystery

26:10 Publishing imprint Scarlet Oak Press

26:50 Do You Draw Pictures by Becki C. Lee (Author), Walter Jaczkowski (Illustrator)

27:35 Should We Shake On It by Becki C. Lee (Author), Walter Jaczkowski (Illustrator)

27:50 Mommy Needs a Minute by Claire E. Parsons & Naomi L. Hudson

29:00 Traditional publishing

31:00 The Write Approach podcast episode 33: From Spicy Romance to Chart-Topping Suspense with Alessandra Torre

31:25 Evolution of his business goals and intent for future work

32:50 Pursuit of multiple careers

34:25 Definition of justice 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

18 Jun 2023Glance at Culture - Cultural Heritage Preservation Lawyers' Committee Fellow Jan Felman on the Cancellation of The Max Stern Düsseldorf to Montreal Art Exhibition00:50:05

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To learn more, please visit the websites for the Max Stern Restitution Project, the HEAR Act, the Second Circuit's decision in Zuckerman v. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Zurückgeben Foundation and Almost Lost: the Heinemann Legacy (Before, During, and After the Holocaust).

Show Notes:
1:30 Max Stern Art Restitution Project 
2:30 Dr. Max Stern
5:00 Stern’s restitution efforts
8:00 Cancellation of The Max Stern Düsseldorf to Montreal Art Exhibition
9:50 Sales under duress
10:15 Auctions at cut-rate prices as an encouragement to the German people
13:15 Rug in the office of Angela Merkel 
14:20 Russian exhibition of looted German objects
16:00 German Lost Art Foundation 
17:00 Mosse Art Research Initiative - partly funded by German Lost Art Foundation
18:10 Thieves able to give good title under German law
20:40 Hilde Schramm - German politician for Alliance 90/The Greens, daughter of  German architect/Nazi Party official Albert Speer
21:20 The Zurückgeben Foundation - organization started by Schramm
21:45 City of Lüneburg, Germany honored Jewish Heinemann family whose objects were looted 
22:45 Heinemann family donated looted objects back to the Lüneburg Museum
23:20 Holocaust Expropriation Art Recovery (HEAR) Act 
24:40 Second Circuit decision in Zuckerman v. The Metropolitan Museum of Art
25:00 Doctrine of Laches
27:40 New focus of research on difficulty of being honest about genocide restitution
28:30 Theft of works from Ukrainian museums
33:20 Dehumanization as part of genocide
34:00 Denial of wrongs committed in genocide
35:00 Russia’s prior theft of Ukrainian cultural heritage
35:20 World’s tolerance / denial of genocide
36:20 Need for empathy
36:30 What is a bystander
36:50 Spain’s policy as an allegedly neutral party during WWII
38:00 Concept of justice
38:45 Andrew Smith - The Met’s reasoning 
40:45 British Museum’s policy that Elgin Marbles are part of UK heritage
42:40 HEAR Act’s legislative intent ignored by the Court
43:45 Picasso’s The Actor was a gift to the Met
44:20 Vienna case of  painting looted from Alma Mahler (Edvard Munch's "Summer Night at the Beach") restituted in 2001 by Belvedere Museum to Mahler's granddaughter, Marina
46:30 Alan Robertshaw - neutral area that serviced U boats
47:20 Alan Robertshaw - 1995 abolishment of UK’s market overt - English legal concept from mediaeval times that allowed subsequent ownership of stolen goods


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

21 Jan 2024Researcher Chiara Gallo on Influencer Advertising & Art - A 2ND Saturday Conversation00:51:10

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Show Notes:

1:00 overview of thesis topic
3:00 2018 music video at the Louvre by Beyoncé and Jay Z 
3:55 Advertising campaign by Louis Vuitton that featured Joan Mitchell paintings
6:00 2020 Uffizi promotional campaign to promote Botticelli exhibition
7:25 Uffizi’s TikTok account posting with Dua Lipa 
8:10 criticism of Uffizi campaigns
9:20 Approaches by EU and UK
11:20 Influencer marketing
14:35 EU Directive
30:10 Italian approach 
33:00 liability under Italian case law and consumer code
35:30 historical events that caused Gallo’s choice on research and thesis
37:00 Emily Gould
38:20 Alan Robertshaw 
43:15 risks and contractual issue with fees
46:20 Gould
47:45 Gallo on InstaGram disclosure 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

01 Jul 2023NFT Update with Emily Gould - A 2ND Saturday Conversation01:06:00

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To learn more: 18 April 2023 UK Parliament's Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee regarding NFTs and the blockchain,  Emily Gould's correspondence following the hearing on several issues touched on by the Committee; and NFT-related posts on the IAL Blog.

Show Notes:
1:15 Beeple sold ”Everydays — The First 5000 Days” for $69 million
2:45 The Art Basel and UBS Global Art Market Report
3:00 current global art market valued at 67.8 billion
3:15 current art-related NFTs valued at $1.5 billion
3:50 collectibles-related NFTs valued at 11.8 billion
5:00 Parliamentary  committee
5:50 NFT life cycle
6:40 NFT defined
10:50 Distributed Ledger Technology
12:20 Ethereum
14:20 Web 1-3
15:50 Metaverse
16:50 holograms
17:35 stakeholders
22:50 resale royalty right
24:00 NFTs taken off chain will break royalty under smart contract
27:15 Flipkick - NFT authentication service
27:25 Artclear -  NFT authentication service
28:00  blockchain and provenance
30:40 fractional ownership
31:40 DAOs
32:40 fractional.art
32:55 Artsect Gallery
34:50 Copyright infringement
37:00 licensing 
37:40 Injective Protocol purchased/burnt Banksy's Morons (White)
38:50 Daystorm posted NFT of Basquiat for sale along with IP rights
39:30 TM infringement - MetaBirkin NFTs
40:30 commercial risks
41:00 NFT platform liability and disclaimers
42:00 EU copyright directive
42:25 Soleymani v. Nifty Gateway
44:10 UK consumer rights act protection for Soleymani
44:30 illicit activity - theft of NFTs or unauthorized minting of NFTs
44:45 ex-OpenSea employee convicted of fraud/money laundering
45:15 Osbourne v Opensea & Tulip Trading Limited v Bitcoin
45:30 property status of NFTs
46:00 money laundering
46:25 financial risks
48:00 tax & estate planning
48:15 environmental concerns
50:00 Whitworth Gallery’s Ancient of Days
51:10 Vacant-To-Visual Program 
52:40  Hirst’s Currency project
54:05 Alan Robertshaw
54:30 Currency project results slightly favored physical works over NFT
55:45 Hirst’s The Beautiful Paintings project
56:35 international body 
57:20 Robershaw 
58:40 conflict between smart contracts and natural term licensing
1:00:30 Robertshaw 
1:01:10 transaction time
1:02:20 "trustless" system actually requires trust

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

16 Jul 2023Glance at Culture - Artist Farook Mohammed on Using Art As A Weapon00:54:52

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Cover art After World War III, 2020, oil on board, 60 cm x 80 cm, by Farook Mohammed

To learn more, please visit the website for the Afro Arabian Empire.

Show Notes:

00:45 Pan-African mission of his artwork that combines the diversity of Africa

2:30 artwork to promote brotherhood and unity for Africa and the world 

8:00 artwork tells stories that include a focus on identity and gender

10:00 childhood

12:25 social constructs

15:30 power of art

16:00 legacy he want to leave

18:00 under-population of the world

18:40 sustainable development 

19:00 examples of his work 

22:30 women

23:10 Man’s Endeavor

25:00 life outside the earth

26:30 use of AI 

30:30 regulations on use of technology 

32:15 transparency about use of AI to create art

33:00 Chat GPT

34:40 open market 

36:20 used Midjourney for ideas 

38:20 use of AI for bad reasons

39:15 drone technology

40:20 Elon Musk

40:50 After World War III

44:30 claims against S African media houses

47:30 Afro Arabian Empire 

47:55 group exhibition planned for Mantis Boutique 

48:30 Continental Pan-Africa Art Exhibition 

49:45 view of justice 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

15 Oct 2023Glance at Culture - Anna D. Smith shares about Los Angeles Prisoner Artist Donald "C-Note" Hooker00:34:30

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Cover art by Donald "C-Note" Hooker: top image "Cell Time" (2019); bottom image "During the Flood" (2017)

To learn more, please visit the sites for Donald "C-Note" Hooker and Art for Redemption.

Show Notes:
0:00 Anna D. Smith discussing C-Note Hooker’s artwork entitled “During the Flood”
1:20 Smith’s background
3:15 Smith’s work as a court advocate
4:00 Smith’s adoption of son, Emmanuel 
4:45 Smith’s contact with artist Donald “C-Note” Hooker
5:55 Art for Redemption coffee book
6:10 C-Note’s work related to social justice
6:45 “During the Flood” aka “Count Time”
7:50 California prison built on flood-prone areas 
8:45 compensation for incarcerated workers
11:00 Smith’s efforts to sell C-Note’s artwork
11:45 billboards “Incarceration Nation” and “Look Up Hope and Beauty”
12:20 “Colored Girl Warhol”
13:20 Billboard events to raise awareness about issues for the individuals in the system, the homeless, parolees 
14:10 “Incarceration Nation”
14:50 misconceptions about individuals in the system
16:45 defining justice and amendment of the 13th Amendment 
19:00 power of imagery to impact social awareness about issues with the system
20:30 legacy and need for connections
21:00 Martin Luther King’s inspiration to love one’s enemies
24:00 incarcerated individual who entered contest about rehabilitation 
27:00 view of justice for Smith began with her father’s work as teacher of economics to those incarcerated
30:30 Vanity Fair article 
32:00 importance of the arts in the system 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

26 May 2024Deadria Farmer-Paellmann Provides an Update on Restitution Study Group's Work for Slavery Justice, including the Status of the Benin Bronze Suit Against the Smithsonian Institution00:36:37

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Cover Photo by Nils Paellmann

0:00 Restitution Study Group (RSG) Executive Director Deadria Farmer-Paellmann 

1:30 overview of suit and issues raised 

4:30 Prof. Tobias Skowronek’s findings on the metals contained in the manillas

7:00 Dismissal of suit against Smithsonian based on mootness

7:55 court order that Plaintiffs conceded points and waived arguments 

8:45 ruling in OK reparations case for the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre

10:30 Nigerian declaration by outgoing President Buhari 

12:00 critical argument that transfer was ultra vires  

13:00 Administrative Procedure Act - failure to hold public hearing on ‘ethical transfers’ creates First Amendment issue 

15:00 opinion on Nigeria’s position 

17:00 DNA research as to descendants from Esan People from Benin Kingdom

19:00 Benin Kingdom’s enslavement of their females

20:15 Manchester Museum’s 2023 repatriation to Australia’s Aboriginal Anindilyakwa community of Groote Eylandt

21:00 change in narratives offered by Frankfurt’s Museum of World Cultures and Berlin’s Humboldt Museum 
22:45 ancestral dedications at institutions holding Benin Bronzes

23:30 Benin Kingdom Museum in Harlem, NY 

25:15 underreporting on lawsuit 

26:00 shock about value of Benin Bronzes - a classic Wakanda story at end of first Black Panther film

28:20 potential for justice in US lower federal courts and in SCOTUS

31:00 narrative attached to the Benin Bronzes

33:30 Illinois State Rep. Carol Ammons - Joint chairwoman of Illinois Legislative Black Caucus meeting with Chicago's Field Museum

34:30 NY Legislator involved in work of RSG

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

01 Oct 2023Transforming Vacant Buildings into Art: Social Change with Ernest Chrappah00:31:27

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To learn more and support Vacant to Visual artists, please visit the CityKey website.

To reach out and learn more about Ernest Chrappah's work, please visit his website.

Show notes:

0:00 Ernest Chrappah
1:10 Chrappah’s background
4:00 Washington DC’s Vacant to Visual program
9:00 artists included in the Vacant to Visual program
9:50 Nia Keturah Calhoun
11:15 “Ro” Stephenson
12:00 Vacant to Visual NFTs
13:40 feedback from Vacant to Visual program
16:20 Vacant to Visual program as a model for other cities
18:20 his view on how art can be used to create a more just society
20:45 his defintiion of justice
23:15 future work
25:30 AI policy
28:30 Vacant To Visual Site and Vacant to Visual NFT purchase cite


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

03 Sep 2023AI Policy From the UK to the US with Institute of Art and Law's Emily Gould - A 2ND Saturday Conversation01:00:16

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 SHOW NOTES:
0:00 Alan Robertshaw
1:00 Emily Gould - overview of AI historical development
2:30 first phase - 1950s Alan Turing - machines do what they are told
3:10 second phase - machine learning creating models using data and develop methods to make decisions / predictions based on that data
3:50 third phase - deep learning usually using neural networks to mimic the human brain
4:50 GANs - part of third phase that involve generator and discriminator algorithms
5:55 Obvious’ Portrait of Edmond de Belamy
6:40 Robbie Barrett’s code used by Obvious
8:40 unpredictability in the deep learning phase 
9:25 different tests applied to determine if a machine is intelligent
9:55 Turing test - machine is intelligent if you can’t tell the difference between responses by a human and a machine
10:10 Lovelace test - machine is intelligent if you can’t explain machine’s answer
11:20 ‘Alpha Go’ algorithm
13:30 uses of AI
14:20 huge training data sets
15:50 major risks with AI include copyright
17:10 privacy and data protection
17:20 transparency - deep fake
17:40 bias amplification
18:15 MIT researcher Joy Buolamwini’s work with facial analysis software
19:45 UK’s pro-innovation approach to AI
21:45 text and data mining (TDM) exception only for non-commercial use - proposal to expand to commercial use
24:25 Nov 2022 government decided not to expand TDM exception to commercial use
24:55 UK Pro-innovation Regulation of Technologies Review
26:45 A pro-innovation approach to AI regulation policy paper  - no legislation in the short term, no move to central regulatory body for AI
29:30 AI described in UK white paper as including autonomy and adaptivity
32:25 Global Summit on AI Safety
32:45 EU AI Act with risk—based approach - June 2023 signed off by Parliament; final conclusions expected late 2023; operational circa 2026
36:35 US - AI suits pending
37:00 Robbie Barrett
38:00 opt in versus opt out policy
39:20 Senate testimony regarding UK’s AI advances
40:15 US Task Force on AI Policy proposed; Privacy Consumer Protection Framework
40:45 Getty v. Stability AI suits in US and UK
41:25 2024 elections and AI
44:00 Alan Robertshaw’s case with Getty
47:05 Gould: AI voice scam
48:00 Robertshaw: AI uses
50:20 AI medical screening
53:00 consciousness
56:00 Artist Sofia Crespo’s work with natural history
56:30 Lines and Bones by artist Iskra Velitchkova
56:50 Dawn Chorus Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg
57:30 projection for how artists in the UK will address AI issues 




Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

19 Nov 2023Fair Use and AI - A 2ND Saturday Exploration00:45:09

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Show Notes:

0:00 Yelena Khajekian

1:30 Warhol v Goldsmith decision by SCOTUS 

3:00 USCO NOI’s Question 8

4:00 Google LLC v. Oracle America, Inc., 593 U.S. ___ (2021)

4:20 liability question

4:45 Emily Gould - fair use

6:30 Alan Robertshaw - Warhol court’s focus on use of the work

7:50 Khajekian - artists’ perspective on Warhol decision

9:00 Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc., 510 U.S. 569 (1994)

10:20 confusion of fair use analysis and court’s aesthetic analysis

12:00 USCO NOI’s Question about fair use 

13:00 Robertshaw - UK’s fair dealing analysis

15:50 Gould - big players like Getty 

17:45 text and data mining exception

20:10 Drawdy - private contracting as a solution

21:00 Robertshaw - Getty

22:15 Khajekian - conceptual art

25:55 Warhol’s 2 Cir decision 

26:50 Gould & Khajekian - Richard Prince decision held not fair use

27:20 Khajekian - equity issue

28:40 Gould - UK courts’ emphasis on purpose, e.g., Stormtrooper helmet case 

30:30 Drawdy - amount and substantiality of use

31:10 Gould - Australian case about Men at Work’s use of folk song Kookaburra in its pop song Down Under

32:20 Robershaw - dispute over Vanilla Ice’s Ice Ice Baby

33:00 Ed Sheeran  

34:15 Getty case pending in UK

35:00 Khajekian - international versus US issues 

37:30 Robershaw - test that contemplates level of effort or end result regarding AI output

40:30 Gould - risks involved with AI

40:50 EU’s application-based approach 

41:10 AI for medical applications

41:55 detecting forgeries will still require humans, e.g., conflicting AI results regarding Raphael

42:50  implicit bias in AI

43:15 dogs detecting forgeries 

43:40 chickens detecting shapes

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

03 Dec 2023Dr. Samson Munn on Recovering Art by Jacob Mącznik and other School of Paris Artists, Escaping the Burden of Silence Through Dialogue, Citizenship, Israeli PM Netanyahu, the Fraught Concept of Legacy & Defining Justice01:25:55

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Cover Image:  Self-Portrait, oil on canvas by Jacob Mącznik.

To learn more, please visit the website for Jacob Mącznik, the Lost Art Database page for Mącznik's Still Life with FishThe Austrian Encounter and the trailer to The Ghosts of the Third Reich.

Show Notes:

0:00 Dr. Samson Munn discussing Van Ham art auctionhouse

1:45 Munn’s background

2:50 history of Holocaust-related dialogue with Dan Bar-On

4:00 Children of the Third Reich

4:20 Austrian dialogue group 

4:35 Ghosts of the Third Reich

6:00 second group, The Encounter 

7:45 Dan Bar-On’s book Fear and Hope

12:00 examples from dialogue groups

17:15 Munn’s initial motivation to start dialogue group - emotional responsibility 

24:40 Munn’s dialogue work in Northern Ireland

27:25 dialogue work with descendants of displaced indigenous peoples

28:50 preparation for dialogue group facilitators 

32:20 screening individuals for dialogue groups

33:45 Israeli, Polish and German citizenship

44:30 Jacob Mącznik’s work 

1:00:00 Van Ham auctionhouse

1:06:00 Parisian archive research

1:11:00 Munn’s research of other artists from the Paris School

1:12:30 female artists from the Paris School

1:14:30 Mącznik catalogue raisonne

1:17:00 legacy that Munn is working to create

1:19:30 justice

1:22:30 Israeli PM Netanyahu


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

21 Apr 2024Author & Art Historian Dr Laura Morelli Discusses her Historical Fiction Novel The Last Masterpiece and WWII Looting of Florentine Collections00:46:00

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To learn more, please visit Laura Morelli's site.

Show Notes:

0:00 Laura Morelli  discussing the WWII era art looting

1:15 genesis of writing about the looting of Florentine art collections in The Last Masterpiece 

2:45 German Jewish artist Rudolph Levy as guest of German Art History Institute 

4:30 Stolperstein for Levy

5:00 perspectives in WWII Italy: museum officials, German expatriates and Allies

8:30 German Eva Brunner and American Josephine Evans - characters in The Last Masterpiece 

9:30 decisions on where to begin and end The Last Masterpiece

13:30 decision to use fictional characters versus historical figures in book

14:40 German Art History Institute Director Prof. Friedrich Kriegbaum

16:00 Kriegbaum’s participation in Hitler’s 1938 tour of Florence

18:25 Brunner’s back story

20:10 German photographer Hilde Lotz-Bauer who worked for Prof. Kriegbaum photographing Allied damage to historical monuments in Florence 

24:15 Evans based on Women’s Army Corp (WACs)

28:25 women who worked with and supported the Monuments Men

29:00 justice in terms of the individual actions and decisions that enabled the survival of art looted during WWII

31:30 books by Robert Edsel and Ilaria Dagnini Brey

32:15 survival bias 

33:30 van Dyck painting

33:40 Uffizi Director Eike Schmidt’s work for Germany to return looted Dutch painting

35:00 impact of propaganda during WWII

38:10 Michelangelo’s Secret Room with 16th C drawings 

42:20 2024 release of book related to hiding places in Tuscan countryside in 1943-44


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

17 Dec 2023Copyright Advocate & Author David Newhoff on State Sovereign Immunity, IP, AI and Artists' Rights - A 2ND Saturday Conversation01:07:52

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Cover Photo of David Newhoff by Sean Mekas

To learn more, please visit Mr. Newhoff's site as well as his blog, The Illusion of More.

Show Notes:

1:45 Newhoff’s background 

4:15 impetus to write Who Invented Oscar Wilde?: The Photograph at the Center of Modern American Copyright? 

6:15 SCOTUS’s Warhol decision

10:00 Sarony’s input compared with and AI users’ input

14:00 Newhoff’s comments to USCO’s NOI and Request for Comments

17:20 compulsory licensing scheme

18:50 RightsClick

25:45 USCO’s focus on how a work was created (by AI or human) versus leaving that to courts

25:55 feedback on his comments to USCO

32:00 AI copyright lawsuits in the US

36:25 liability for AI training data

40:45 Emily Gould: whether training involves making copies, EU exception for copies

43:00 whether US copyright is still fit for purpose in light of issues raised by AI

44:20 work “in the style of” 

48:40 Deborah Roberts vs Lynthia Edwards - suit over collage works

52:30 Alan Robertshaw: threshold of infringing work versus transformative work

54:50 why use AI to create artwork

56:45 NFT hype

57:35 the legacy Newhoff hopes to be creating 

58:50 Newhoff’s view of justice 

1:01:00 status of Allen v. Cooper and Allen’s pending constitutional takings claim

1:04:00 camouflage patents

1:05:20 change from allowing IP claims against states to decision that Congress does not have that authority and 11th Amendment’s restriction of individuals bringing suit against states controlled 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

04 Feb 2024Dr. Elizabeth White and Dr. Joanna Sliwa discuss their book, The Counterfeit Countess: the Jewish Woman Who Rescued Thousands of Poles During the Holocaust00:57:14

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Show Notes:
2:00 Dr. Joanna Sliwa’s background
4:20 Dr. Elizabeth White’s background 
5:20 Majdanek concentration camp
8:00 1989 - White received the manuscript of Dr. Janina Mehlberg’s unpublished memoir from Dr. Arthur Funk
10:30 Dr. Janina Mehlberg’s humanitarian work in Polish concentration camp during WWII
12:20 Mehlberg’s alias as Countess Suchodolska
13:30 2018 - Dr. Joanna Sliwa began work with Dr. White to research Mehlberg's memoir
15:00 reading from The Counterfeit Countess
20:00 balance of co-authoring The Counterfeit Countess
22:20 research process
24:00 surprises from the research 
27:45 Countess Karolina Lanckorońska
30:30 Saturnina Malm
33:30 Dr. Stefania Perzanowska 
35:00 view of women’s roles during war and instances of persecution 
38:00 empathic approach of Mehlberg as a model for today
42:00 propoganda
46:00 individual ways to address hate
49:00 justice
51:45 legacy
54:30 Sliwa’s focus on marginalized groups, including future volume on experiences of older jews before, during and after the Holocaust  

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

05 May 2024Fast Familiar Co-Founder Rachel Briscoe on Creating Audience-Centric Theatre to Facilitate Dialogue and Address Social Issues and How Tech Can Serve Humanity in that Process00:40:16

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To learn more, please visit Fast Familiar's site.

Show Notes:

0:00 Briscoe discussing justice

1:20 Briscoe’s background in theatre and co-founding Fast Familiar

3:15 2015 project ‘Invisible Treasure’ about systems of power

4:40 2018 began work with computational artist Joe McAlister

5:20 technological solutions for use in projects 

6:30 The Justice Syndicate 

8:40 The Acquisitions Panel

9:40 collaborations 

10:25 The Evidence Chamber - forensic science work with University of Dundee 

13:00 use of comic strip with forensic information in The Evidence Chamber

15:40 Curse of the Burial Daggers 

18:00 Smoking Gun - collaboration with Data Stories 

23:00 outcomes in jury shows and influence of current events

25:25 machine learning with data gathered through projects

26:45 process 

28:40 Future for Fast Familiar

30:30 justice defined

32:20 feedback

35:35 arts to address social issues

38:20 2024 projects


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

07 Jan 2024Anthropologist and Author Dr. Giovanni Ercolani on Artists in Ukraine Who Are Preserving the Spirit of Maidan01:06:54

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To learn more, please have a look at Dr. Ercolani's book, The Maidan Museum: Preserving the Spirit of Maidan.
Show Notes:
1:00 Ercolani’s background
3:50 Ercolani’s focus of Ukraine
6:40 research and writing The Maidan Museum: Preserving the Spirit of Maidan
11:40 new Maidan language created that includes symbols
14:45 portraits by Marina Sochenko
16:50 Yulia Ovcharenko
17:45 Tatyana Cheprasova
18:20 Cheprasova’s use of Caravaggio 
19:00 Oleksandr Ivanovych Melnyk’s “I Can See Your Deeds”
19:45 Melnyk’s “I Can See Your Deeds”
20:25 French anthropologist Marc Augé - ‘anthropology of encounter’
21:15 Marina Sochenko’s art as documentation
21:55 Artistic Hundreds group
22:15 Artist Ivan Semesyuk with Artistic Hundreds
26:15 Kandinsky quote that artists are receivers and beneficiaries
28:15 Maidan art and a new world order
33:45 NATO
36:45 Maidan revolution and the current war
41:00 memory of identify and identity war
42:05 author Andrey Kurkov’s move to Ukraine to have the identity of Ukrainians
43:25 significant of preserving art and cultural heritage in times of conflict
47:00 his legacy 
49:50 his definition of justice
51:15 the constitution of Melfi by Emperor Frederick II
53:15 link between Russian-Ukraine War and Maidan Revolution
58:45 next projects focused on conflict in society
1:00:30 anthropological identity work tied to art and cultural heritage
1:02:30 artist seen as enemy

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

22 Dec 2023*Bonus* “Signs” from Elicit Justice: Conversations Off Grid00:03:54

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Featuring excerpts from Episode 121, an interview with Dr. Samson Munn and musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2023.


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

18 Feb 2024Attorney Sanjay Sethi Discusses Artistic Freedom Initiative's Work, Oppression of the Arts and Cultural Sectors Globally & the Need for Pluralistic Discourse00:55:07

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Cover image by Nosrat Tarighi of Sanjay Sethi at an AFI event entitled Revolutions and Movements

To learn more, please visit the sites for Artistic Freedom Initiative and Sethi & Mazaheri, LLC.

Show Notes:

2:00 overview of Sethi’s background and work as Founding Partner of Sethi & Mazaheri, LLC and Co-Executive Director of Artistic Freedom Initiative (AFI)
3:45 genesis and mission of AFI
5:00 AFI’s services
8:00 AFI’s residency program
9:00 AFI’s Artists for Social Change
9:45 challenges to helping artists
13:00 AFI’s creation of a sponsorship model
13:30 AFI’s program in Germany
15:00 determination of artists in imminent danger
16:20 assistance for female artists
18:20 university placements for female artists
18:40 the New School’s fellowships for Afghan artists at risk
19:00 Germany’s program for artists at risk
21:00 Journals of Exile at the Berliner Ensemble
22:10 programs through AFI’s Artists For Social Change
23:45 Brazilian Singer Songwriter Bia Ferreira
25:20 AFI’s Afghan Artists Protection Project & Iranian Artists Support Project
27:00 challenges of single intent visas like student visas and O-1 visas
28:30 denial of entry based on immigration intent for Afghan versus Iranian artists 
30:00 applications from Myanmar, Egypt, Nicaragua, India and particular Kashmir
31:00 impact of prior and upcoming elections 
31:30 Poland shifted back to center left with loss of Law and Justice (PiS) party
31:50 Slovakia’s election of Fico w/ agenda similar to Hungary’s Orbán
32:00 Slovenia’s election of liberal Robert Golob
32:10 Brazil’s election of leftist former president, defeating Pres. Jair Bolsonaro
32:15 Indian PM Narendra Modi’s Hindu Nationalist Party projected to win 
32:30 elections in Italy and the Netherlands
32:45 new and different threats to cultural sectors globally
33:00 AfI’s Artistic Freedom Monitor - initial reports on Poland and Hungary
36:00 regimes replaced museum/cultural institute heads w/ right wing politicians
36:00 Curation of shows under those regimes would conform to nationalist ideals
37:25  defunding anti-regime institutions or anti-Catholic in Poland 
37:50 intimidation of non-conforming artists
38:10 Poland’s use of blasphemy law to criminally charge non-conforming artists
38:00 chilling effect of such subversive mechanisms 
39:15 AFI’s position that arts decisions should be merits-based and non-ideological   
39:30 response to Artistic Freedom Monitor’s reports
40:00 erroneous belief that arts are inconsequential in public & political dialogue 
41:35 elevation of AFI’s advocacy efforts to an international forum 
44:00 collaboration to lobby for artistic and creative freedom
45:00 impact of artificial intelligence 
47:50 legacy of his work
49:50 his notion of justice 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

06 Oct 2024Artist & Attorney Stefania Salles Bruins on "How to Work Your Lawyer-Trained Brain to Strengthen Your Cranial Nerve 2" - A 2ND Saturday Conversation00:37:28

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Cover Image: Artist's MFA Studio - Tribeca Ball.
To learn more, please visit Stefania Salles Bruins' site.

Show Notes:
1:15 art school’s training to visually think
2:00 Bruins’ work as attorney
2:30 overview of grad program at New York Academy of Art
5:00 medium: use of linseed oil and paint without medium
5:30 tools: importance of brushes
6:15 support: Bruins’ preference for aluminum
7:15 Vincent Desiderio’s Cockaigne
8:00 Lesson 1 Perspective
8:45 Point of View
9:30 Lesson 2 Light
10:50 Lesson 2.5 Shadow
11:30 Rembrandt’s The Nightwatch
12:00 Lesson 3 Value
12:55 Lesson 4 Temperature
13:05 Courbet’s The Madman or The Desperate Man
13:50 Steven Assael - king of temperature shifts
14:20 Lesson 5 Depth
15:00 Value is King, Temperature is Queen and Color is a Fool
15:30 Lesson 6 Lines
15:40 shapes within da Vinci’s Mona Lisa
17:00 Adam Miller - narrative large oil paintings
17:20 Carl Dobsky
17:30 NYAA Big Stories exhibit artist talk
18:00 transitions within grad school and post-grad
19:40 learning to be your own voice of reason - parallel with work as general counsel
20:55 Old Masters Rembrandt and Vermeer
21:55 Alan Robertshaw: Vermeer’s use of optics
23:00 SSB: application of illusions in cinema and inspiration from movies more than paintings
24:00 Kubrick's Barry Lyndon
24:50 use of grids and projectors
27:15 use of technical and human assistants
28:45 critiques
30:00 art historical references to read the work
31:20 Nnebundo Obi: time commitments within art grad school
32:50 Escoda brushes
33:00 use of aluminum
34:45 advice for individuals who want to begin painting
35:30 always clean your brushes!

see also:

JP Roy's IG post re light

checkerboard illusion

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

03 Mar 2024Appellate Attorney M.C. Sungaila on Space Cultural Heritage Preservation and Lessons to be drawn from Holocaust-Era Restitution Cases like Cassirer00:47:07

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Show Notes:
0:00 M.C. Sungaila discussing history / preservation of space exploration
1:50 Sungaila’s Portia Project Podcast interview with Space Law Expert Michelle Hanlon
2:45 Sungaila’s experience with University of Mississippi School of Law’s Air and Space Program
5:30 unclear language related to space law
8:00 mining on the moon
9:40 lessons from Holocaust-era restitution cases like Cassirer v. Thyssen-Bornemisza Collection Foundation
12:30 For All Moonkind
13:30 International Symposium on Cultural Heritage in War and Peace: Tangible and Intangible Cultural Heritage through Past, Present and Future
16:45 Sungaila’s proposed framework to create space cultural heritage commission
22:45 The Artemis Accords
24:50 Italian Opera added to UNESCO intangible cultural heritage list
25:15 treaty requiring registration of space objects
25:35 For All Moonkind’s moon registry
26:10 One Small Step To Protect Human Heritage in Space Act
27:40 Sungaila’s projection
29:30 Dubai space court
31:25 urgency of space cultural heritage preservation
32:40 definition of justice
35:40 9th Cir's 9 Jan 2024 opinion in Cassirer and the question of ethics and law
39:45 Mismatch between domestic law and international obligations
42:10 Institute on Space Law and Ethics
44:00 issues related to satellites, drones, air taxis

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

07 Apr 2024Novelist & Attorney Barbara Hinske Discusses her Rosemont Series, Guiding Emily Series & Hallmark Movie, Discrimination Against the Blind, Art's Ability to Address Social Issues and Much More01:00:11

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To learn more, please visit Barbara Hinske's website.

Cover photo of Barbara Hinske, 2020 Jean Laninga Creative.

Show Notes:

0:00 Guiding Emily Series to effect change for good in the sighted community

1:15 background in engineering and the law

2:00 whodunit books by Barbara’s father

2:25 double vision by auto accident led to Rosemont series

3:55 her approach to writing while still working as an attorney

7:00 work with a writing coach

8:15 writing coach Linden Gross

8:45 Author Conference on Clubhouse

10:30 Rosemont Series 

13:50 Guiding Emily Series

14:45 Guiding Emily movie on Hallmark in April 2024

15:00 genesis of Guiding Emily at Foundation for Blind Children

22:50 discrimination against the visually impaired community

24:45 unemployment rate of the visually impaired community

26:00 panel to address employability of individuals from visually impaired community

30:05 viewers@hallmarkmedia.com

35:20 exclusion of unsighted parents

37:30 guide dog graduation ceremony

40:20 Guiding Emily presentation

41:40 power of art to shift and address social issues

42:00 The Christmas Club

44:00 pregnant unsighted individual’s experience

45:30 Canadian child at Foundation for Blind Children

46:55 definition of justice

49:15 The Write Approach podcast

51:20 Hinske’s strong older female protagonists 

53:50 Final Circuit 

57:30 self-published in e-book and print; traditionally published in audio

58:00 Hinske’s legacy to uplift, encourage and empower

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

01 Dec 2024Researcher, Writer & Advisor Frances Liddell on the Intersection of Emerging Tech, the Arts & Culture00:53:45

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To learn more, please visit Frances Liddell's site.

Show Notes:
0:00 Frances Liddell on justice and technology
1:30 Liddell’s background
2:50 CryptoKitties
3:50 NFTs
5:20 ORAgen
& DECaDE research centre
7:20 C2PA
8:15 tokenized rights
9:45 ORA use cases
10:30 themes from ORA interviews
12:15 YouTube as a supportive platform v. TikTok
13:00 smart contracts and licensing
15:00 perspectives on attribution
16:30 Emily Gould question on attribution
24:50 animation sector with stronger preference for attribution not open source
26:45 interviews revealed uncertainty on data scraping
29:50 lack of awareness about the environmental impact of blockchain
31:50 repatriation and blockchain and her work as associate research fellow with
Art & Antiquities Blockchain Consortium
34:50 Balot NFT - Balot sculpture in Virginia Museum of Fine Arts 
37:30 ORA project status
38:15 ORAgen Fables
39:00 recommendations for creatives: to review C2PA & Content Credentials
41:00 Gould: responses during interviews about copyright concerns 
45:30 location of individuals interviewed
47:20 impact of tech on issues of injustice - benefits/concerns surrounding decentralization 
50:40 current work with ORA
51:30 Oluwatobi Aluko

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

31 Mar 2024*Bonus* "Manifestation of Freedom" from Elicit Justice: Conversations Off Grid00:03:18

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Featuring excerpts from Episode 108, an interview with Dr. Ashfaq Ishaq, and Episode 105, an interview with Milena Chorna, with musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2024.

Many thanks to M.C. Sungaila who sparked the idea for "Manifestation of Freedom". 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

01 Sep 2024D. Paul Schafer on the need to shift from the Economic Age to the Cultural Age and his new book, The Great Cultural Awakening: Key to an Equitable, Sustainable and Harmonious Age01:10:16

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To learn more, please visit the World Culture Project and read about D. Paul Schafer's most recent book, The Great Cultural Awakening

Show Notes:

0:00 Schafer quotes Gurte: “live in the whole , the good and the beautiful”

2:15 background 

7:50 Ontario Arts Council

8:15 Arts Administration and Cultural Policy graduate program at York University

8:45 freelancer-UNESCO, Canadian Dep’t of External Affairs

9:25 publications predicated on argument that it’s time to shift from Economic Age to Cultural Age

9:50 creation of the World Culture Project

16:40 Culture: Beacon of the Future (1998)

18:10 AI impact

18:45 Geoffrey Hinton’s concerns over AI

20:50 Revolution or Renaissance: Making the Transition from an Economic Age to a Cultural Age (2008) 

24:25 The World as Culture: Cultivation of the Soul to the Cosmic Whole (2022)

30:05 The Great Cultural Awakening: Key to an Equitable, Sustainable and Harmonious Age (2024)

42:30 future leaders should have backgrounds in the arts and culture sector

46:50 Feedback received about The Great Cultural Awakening

48:00 excerpt from The Great Cultural Awakening’s chapter titled Tale of Two Ages that references Charles Dickens’ Tale of Two Cities

53:00 the power of art to address social injustice

1:00:00 definition of justice

1:02:20 Cultural Historian Johan Huizinga, author of The Waning of the Middle Ages

1:04:20 legacy 

1:06:40 future projects

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

09 Jun 2024Author & Historian Angie Elita Newell Discusses her book, All I See Is Violence, involving the 1876 Battle of Little Bighorn and the 1970s American Indian Movement00:49:47

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To learn more, please visit Angie Elita Newell's site for All I See Is Violence.

Show Notes:

1:20 Newel’s background 

4:00 impetus to address historic inaccuracies

4:50 women warriors

5:30 research process

7:20 perspectives decided on for All I See Is Violence

8:45 interconnectedness of all 

10:15 timelines within All I See Is Violence

11:50 reading from All I See Is Violence

16:50 archival research

18:45 surreal stories from elders

20:40 feedback

21:40 Custer

22:40 power of art to address social issues

23:00 Picasso’s Guernica

25:00 reparations

25:50 the Very Little Truth and No Reconciliation Committee 

27:00 reservations / prison camps

28:30 publishing process and manipulation of the truth by the big 5 publishers

32:30 Indigenous Poet Joy Harjo

33:30 American Indian movement in the 1970s

35:50 concept of justice related to awareness

38:40 next book tells story of Apache leader Geronimo and female warrior Lozen

43:50 research on Lozen

45:00 Mexican slave trade of indigenous people 

45:45 questions from Anjali Rao

47:00 to build dual timelines, Newell asks questions about what’s the point and building on that overarching point


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

07 Jul 2024Artist in Exile: Tetiana Cheprasova Shares About Her Work as a Witness of her Time00:59:22

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To learn more about Tetiana Cheprasova, please visit her page at Agency of Artists in Exile.

Special thanks to Valentina Kostornichenko for acting as interpreter in this episode.

Show Notes:

0:00 Tetiana Cheprasova's view of the war in Ukraine & interpreter Valentina Kostornichenko

1:30 Cheprasova's background and work in painting, photography, sculptures and graphic design 

4:50 Giovanni Ercolani’s book The Maidan Museum Preserving the Spirit of Maidan. Art, Identity and the Revolution of Dignity that features Cheprasova’s paintings inspired by Caravaggio

8:00 from Cheprasova's Depassement portfolio - paintings of hands, including wounded hands signifying stigmata 

10:30 Mariupol woman who inspired Cheprasova

20:40 ‘Stop Emotions’ series of 9 paintings

25:00 Cityscapes of Mariupol

29:30 sculpture that’s part of new work to depict destruction in Ukraine

34:00 Parisian architecture

35:00 consequences of war 

38:00 power of art to address social injustices and the impact of war

41:00 Cheprasova's view of justice 

45:40 Cheprasova’s work as art therapist

49:20 Cheprasova’s hope for viewers of her work

53:00 Giovanni Ercolani’s questions to Cheprasova 

56:00 if only one person is impacted by your work, it’s worth doing 

56:50 Artists as witnesses of their time

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

04 Aug 2024Dr. Andres Guadamuz on IP in the AI Age: Exploring Copyright, Authorship, and Future Regulations01:00:42

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Show notes:

1:20 background and work in IP law and technology

2:20 blog article, “What can internet history teach us?”

3:25 IP issues emerging in the age of AI

5:10 inevitability of AI

6:40 global regulation of AI

8:25 Emily Gould - which body would handle global regulation of AI

11:00 Council of Europe’s adoption of first AI international treaty 

11:50 Gould - UK proposal to expand text and data mining exception to cover commercial uses 

14:55 transparency issues 

18:40 Gould - response - need for legislation

20:20 authorship question 

21:40 THJ Systems v. Sheridan (THJ Systems Ltd. v. Sheridan [2023] EWCA Civ 1354, [2024] E.C.D.R. 4, CA, 20 November 2023) is of great interest because it confirms the test for originality in copyright law in the UK after Brexit.

22:55 Li v. Liu, Case Number: (2023) Jing 0491 Min Chu No. 11279, Beijing Internet Court, 27 November 2023

25:00 NFTs

25:30 Thaler v. Perlmutter and USCO, USCA Case #23-5233 

 29:30 continued utility of copyright 

32:40 AI copyright suits in the US

36:30 cultural impact of AI models’ accelerated training capabilities 

38:20 view of whether there is a future for careers in art

42:50 tools like spawning.ai for artists’ protections 

43:00 opt ins versus opt outs

43:50 technological protections like Glaze and Nightshade 

45:15 difficulty of implementing opt ins 

47:45 injustices in the AI age and definition of justice

50:33 mark that Andres hopes to make with his work

53:40 Stefania Salles-Bruins - IP protection for AI software and outputs



Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

10 Nov 2024IP and Tech Attorney Ankit Sahni on the RAGHAV AI Painting Tool and "Suryast" Copyright Registration Efforts in India, Canada & the US01:08:16

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Show Notes:
1:00 Anki Sanhi
1:45 Sahni’s background and work
5:00 Eric Raymond’s The Cathedral and the Bazaar - essay on open source development
6:40 association with the arts
7:45 trademark enforcement work
10:00 infringement case between client working in fashion space sued by global brand
12:30 origin of the Raghav project
16:45 process to use Raghav
18:30 Van Gogh’s Starry Night
21:00 Raghav = Robust Artificially Intelligent Graphics and Arts Visualizer
21:45 Indian copyright application for “Suryast”
25:40 Section 2(d) of Indian Copyright Act, definition of author
34:30 Canadian copyright application for “Suryast”
35:35 Notice of Application filed in Canadian Federal Court by Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC)  against Sahni over “Suryast”
37:10 US copyright application for “Suryast”
37:35 Sahni’s US Counsel, Alex Garens, Esq. with Day Pitney
38:00 USCO decision on “Suryast”
43:30 India’s definition of ‘author’ - no qualifications
46:50 Parliamentary Standing Committee recommended creation of new right for AI works per Sahni’s recommendation
47:05 February 2024 -  Union Minister of State Commerce in India’s Parliament submitted that there is no need for creation of a new right and current legislation offers sufficient protection
48:45 ambiguity in Canada law on AI
49:40 USCO’s Request for Comments
52:00 Sahni’s position of need for amendment of US law to address AI
53:50 Optimus
54:50 Definition of justice
56:30 global harmonized principles on AI
57:30 injustice of humans unknowingly competing against AI due to historic suppression of AI use
59:00 Sahni’s intent to contribute to the change in law to address AI
1:00:00 consultation with Ryan Abbott, Esq.
1:00:50 Future projects 
1:02:20 shaping issues where art and law intersect
1:03:30 cultural impact of the debate over human authorship, AI and art
1:04:30 comparison of photography to AI

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

05 Jan 2025Art/Cultural Heritage/IP Law Attorney & Musician Leila Amineddoleh - a 2ND Saturday Conversation01:08:35

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To learn more, please visit Amineddoleh & Associates LLC and view Leila Amineddoleh performing Chopin Polonaise, Op. 26, No. 1 and Liszt Liebestraum No. 3.

Show Notes:

1:00 Amineddoleh’s background and work in music and law

4:00 Patty Gerstenblith 

7:00 building Amineddoleh & Assoc.

8:45 Amineddoleh's work with Greece 

10:00 perspective as musician aids in work as attorney to other artists 

11:00 Amineddoleh's experience with plagiarism 

14:20 Amineddoleh’s practice

15:45 Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act

19:50 artists’ perspectives in hiring an attorney 

22:50 Jerry Alonzo: what brings artists to seek out Amineddoleh

26:00 return of golden coffin of Nedjemankh 

31:45 use of AI 

36:30 AI-assisted Beatles song 

37:45 analogy of photography to AI outputs

38:20 Japanese photographer Hiroshi Sugimoto 

39:45 suit over copyright of monkey selfie 

41:45 Thaler v. USCO 

44:30 Rupali Gujral: negotiating on a client’s behalf

48:30 Stefania Salles Bruins: history of art collecting

52:30 Bruins: Amineddoleh's balancing of legal and musical practices

54:00 Amineddoleh’s perspective on sharing her music and performing

56:30 Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2  played by Bugs Bunny 

57:20 Amineddoleh’s performance of Chopin Polonaise, Op. 26, No. 1 and Liszt Liebestraum No. 3 

59:00 under-appreciated composer Brahms 

1:01:20 injustices in art law

1:04:30 Amineddoleh’s definition of justice - access

1:06:00 John Cage’s 4’33” 



Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

02 Feb 2025AI, Copyright and Justice - A Conversation with Copyright Lawyer Anja Neubauer00:42:23

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To learn more, please visit Anja Neubauer's site.

Show Notes:

1:30 background in the law and tech 

4:45 overview of global framework “AI and Authorship Redefined: Towards a Global Copyright Framework for Commerce and Human Originality - Exploring Ownership, Infringement, Moral Rights, and Human Originality”

12:35 question of authorship

19:35 moral rights

26:30 viability of global copyright 

28:20 issues of injustice raised by AI

34:30 German study about developers’ infringement

38:00 public’s choice to lock up data 

39:00 The Congress 



Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

13 Apr 2025Jesuit Priest & Artist Father Jonathan Harmon on Art as a 'Work of Service', Defining Sacred Art and Seeking Justice Through Art00:57:29

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To learn more, please visit Father Harmon's site.

Show notes:

1:15 Harmon’s background and work as priest since 2008

2:10 teaching fine arts and being a pastoral resource at Loyola University

3:00 his work in the arts

8:20 history of art in Jesuit community 

12:00 Daniel Segers, Jesuit Priest and artist 

12:30  Harmon’s process as a painter in light of being a ‘work of service’

16:00 Harmon’s painting from pilgrimage through Spain

17:30 students’ responses

19:15 his attendance at New York Academy of Art  

23:30 Jerry Alonzo: how to communicate through your art

26:45 Pope Benedict XVI’s Encyclical Letter Caritas in Veritate 

28:20 definition of ‘sacred art’

30:30 seeking social justice through art

32:00 his work in Brownsville, TX connected to his art

33:00 his series of Catholic objects

35:30 his balance of time

37:25 Alan Robertshaw’s comments about all art being sacred

42:10 Tolkien and Flannery O’Connor on religious imagination

44:00 incorporating Catholic objects into his work

46:50 Emily Gould - spiritual impact of artwork/architecture/nature

49:15 Jarnick Vitters - importance of the physical objects to Harmon’s faith

51:00 Alan Robertshaw - subjective importance of objects

53:30 Yelena Khajekian - art as a sacred endeavor

54:40 Nnebundo Obi - interest in hearing about priest’s pursuit of other vocations 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

02 Mar 2025AI & IP Panel Discussion: A Global Perspective01:30:23

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Show notes:

3:00 David Newhoff - question of authorship

7:15 Peter Wasilko

9:00 Andres Guadamuz - blog post on AI copyright authorship

10:30 China’s focus on “intellectual achievement” 

12:20 Section 9(3) of its Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 

13:00 Emily Gould - whether copyright is fit for purpose 

13:30 UK joint evidence session on the future of AI and copyright law 

17:15 Newhoff - use of an artist’s style 

18:40 Wasilko - an artist’s training of a model with its own work

20:15 artist's post-stroke gen-AI recording from model training on his work

21:00 Salles Bruins' question on definition of intellect 

25:40 - Ankit Sahni -  China’s protection

28:30 Sahni - India’s position on creativity falls in the middle 

29:00 Ankit Sahni - RAGHAV output “Suryast” 

33:45 Ankit Sahni - protection of AI-assisted works by China’s courts 

35:00 Wasilko - hypothetical of photographing sunsets on VR headsets

36:50 Ankit Sahni - USCO’s case by case basis

37:50 Newhoff - what is actually protectable against infringement

39:30 Sarony decision: looking at human choices used to create photos

41:00 Newhoff - ‘authorship by adoption’ is a “bridge too far”

42:15 Salles Bruins - question about training in Wasilko’s hypothetical

43:10 Wasilko - “bridge too far”-requiring license to “learn” from works

48:00 Stanford’s CodeX Group - talk on product JudgeAI 

50:30 Andres - human creativity exists irrespective of copyright 

52:00 Salles Bruins - copyright is a tool to enable artists to profit 

53:30 Kritika Sahni - defining intellect dependent on AI context 

54:50 Ankit Sahni - sui generis system of registration 

58:45 Gould - applying a right like copyright to output  "tough" to get right

1:02:00 Guadamuz - Ukraine’s sui generis right for AI works 

1:03:45 Jason Jean - defining intellect 

1:08:50 Newhoff - unconvinced that it’s a “sui generis question”

1:09:30 Wasilko - whether inputting human work makes model “assistive”

1:13:00 question of global copyright approach

1:17:15 what is the end game?

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

28 Jun 2020Warfare of Art & Law - Introductory Episode00:05:14

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This introductory episode discusses the true-life war stories to be shared in the coming episodes of this podcast. Each story is rooted in true events, ranging from Nazi-looted art to graffiti.

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

28 Jun 2020Nazi Looted Art: The Gurlitt Art Trove00:14:37

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This episode focuses on Nazi art dealer Hildebrand Gurlitt, recent findings about the history of the art he held, and ongoing efforts to return Nazi-looted art found in his collection, which was in the possession of his son, the late Cornelius Gurlitt. 

Show Notes:

1:30 Hildebrand Gurlitt exhibited modern artists, including German Expressionists 

2:30 Gurlitt began work for Nazis; he gathered art for the Führermuseum and was authorized to liquidate degenerate art

4:25 Hildebrand’s son, Cornelius, inherited his father’s collection 

5:20 German tax investigation led to locating approximately 1,500 works in Cornelius’ residences in Munich, Germany and Salzburg, Austria

6:20 Claim by Alfred Flechtheim’s heirs for Beckmann’s The Lion Tamer

8:00 Kunst Museum Bern inherited Gurlitt’s collection

8:30 Manet’s Ships at Sea in Stormy Weather was sold to Tokyo’s National Museum of Western Art

8:50 Gurlitt Art Find: Paths of Research 

10:15 27,000 documents from Gurlitt’s estate provide unreliable information about sales

11:00 Thomas Couture’s Portrait of a Seated Woman

11:40 Paul Cezanne’s Mont Sainte-Victoire

12:20 To date, 14 looted works have been returned to heirs, including Henri Matisse’s Woman with a Fan and Max Liebermann’s Two Riders on a Beach 

13:50 Questions arising from the Gurlitt Collection: how can right and wrong be so easily blurred? 

15:00 Why, in the shadow of mass murder, is the stealing of art important? Because small steps of hate, like theft of a people’s culture, lead to larger steps.

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

28 Jul 2020Nazi Looted Art in the Netherlands: Author Janet Berg On Her Debut Novel, Rembrandt's Shadow, Nazi-Looted Art and Dutch Restitution Policy00:33:31

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To learn more, please visit Janet Berg's website.

Show Notes:

 3:30 Katz Gallery targeted by Nazis as of 1938/39.

4:00 Katz family’s survival based on a Rembrandt painting

6:30 Bergs hired Lynn Nicholas, author of Rape of Europa, to research art looted from Katz Gallery

8:45 Rembrandt’s Portrait of Raman was exchanged with Nazis for 25 Jewish lives, returned by Dutch Government and donated to the L.A. County Museum

10:30 Characters in Rembrandt’s Shadow based on family

12:45 Family  became aware of location of looted paintings when visiting Dutch museum 

15:00 manifestations of trauma 

20:00 Family escaped to Jamaican internment camp

25:30 Katz Gallery’s inventory meant for  Führermuseum in Linz and for Göring

27:00 Family is  seeking  return of 144 paintings from Dutch Government

28:00 Dutch Government  possesses paintings looted from Katz Gallery 

29:00 Nazis gave appearance of legitimacy to sales by Katz Gallery

31:15 Berg’s second book, Restitution

Katz Gallery History:
In the late 1880s, Dutch Jewish businessman Katz opened a gallery to sell arts and antiquities that became an authoritative leader in the European art world in the 19th into the 20th Century. It specialized in 16th and 17th Century Dutch Master paintings, including those by Rembrandt and one of Rembrandt’s star students, Ferdinand Bol.

Brothers Nathan and Benjamin Katz took over the business in 1930,  attracted Nazi collectors during WWII and by May 1940 they were faced with a choice: sell paintings to Nazi officials like Göring and art dealer Alois Miedl [3] or face torture and murder.  Janet Berg's husband is the grandson of gallery owner Benjamin Katz.

Many of the Katz Gallery WWII sales became the subject of restitution claims in the Netherlands.  After WWII, the Netherlands was a party to various “Collection Point Agreements” by which it agreed to receive certain looted artworks as a custodian until they could be returned to their owners, including paintings taken from the Katz family.  Many of those works are now on display at various Dutch museums and state buildings, or in their storage.

The terms of those collection point agreements define the Netherlands “as custodians pending the determination of the lawful owners thereof; [and] that said items will be returned to their lawful owners”. By definition, one would imagine that a ‘custodian’ would guard property – not take ownership of it. 

Also as Janet mentioned, the Katz heirs pursued their claims with the Dutch government without much success.  In late 2012, the Dutch Restitution Committee issued its findings related to a claim for return of 189 works “sold” to the Nazis, only recommending return of a single painting.  After that a US suit was filed in federal court that was recently dismissed and is on appeal.

The Bergs' suit in the US is Berg v. Kingdom of the Netherlands, et al, Docket No. 18-CV-3123 (D.S.C. 2018).

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

26 Aug 2020Monuments Men and Women Foundation: Anna Bottinelli On World War II, Restitution, the Italian Carabinieri Cultural Heritage Protection Unit and the Weisbaden Manifesto00:34:48

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To learn more, please visit the Monuments Men and Women Foundation's website.

Show Notes:

3:00 348 professionals including architects, librarians and curators comprised the Monuments, Fine Arts and Archives Organization known as the  Monuments Men

4:00 Robert Edsel’s founded of the Monuments Men Foundation 

4:40 Foundation’s initial mission to locate living Monuments Men, record their stories and honor their legacies; 2015 ceremony to award Congressional Gold Medal to Monuments Men

6:15 Foundation’s mission includes locating and returning objects looted during World War II; to date, over 38 objects have been located and returned

7:00 Foundation’s archives given to the National World War II Museum; Museum to open a Monuments Men Gallery

10:00 Foundation’s mission includes raising awareness about the importance of preserving cultural heritage in all countries; membership program launching soon

11:00 Foundation also conducts provenance research

14:00 Foundation’s website features top 15 looted works still missing from World War II

17:00 Foundation’s alliance with Italian Carabinieri Cultural Heritage Protection Unit

23:00 Foundation’s return of objects includes to German museums and individuals

24:30 Foundation’s quarterly newsletter

25:00 Foundation’s return of Italian books

26:00 Foundation’s return of paintings to South German gallery 

28:45 Significance of the Wiesbaden Manifesto

33:00 Foundation’s education programs

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

01 Oct 2020"Real" Artists Pursuing the Law: Artists from North America to Africa on the Study of Law, the Practice of Law and the Work of the Artist02:00:25

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The following are links for Jerry Alonzo, Andrew Smith, Taylor Cobb, and Conner Reddan

Show Notes:

Legal and Arts Careers

1:45 Lutswata Enid

8:50 Taylor Cobb

24:45 Conner Reddan

38:00 Andrew Smith

47:50 Jerry Alonzo

Defining Justice and Identifying Social Justice Issues

1:19:00 Lutswata Enid

1:23:00 Conner Reddan

1:27:00 Taylor Cobb

1:36:00 Andrew Smith

 Perseverance and Mapping Injustice

1:54:45 Taylor Cobb

1:55:35 Jerry Alonzo 

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

19 Oct 2020The Orpheus Clock: Art Researcher and Author Simon Goodman On Nazi-Looted Art, the Gutmann Collection, the HEAR Act, the Washington Principles, Provenance Research and Dutch Restitution Policy00:56:51

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For more information, please have a look at The Orpheus Clock by Simon Goodman.

Show Notes:

3:00 Simon Goodman’s background that led to writing The Orpheus Clock

4:30 Location of first looted painting in Chicago in 1995 led to first restitution suit in U.S. 

7:00 Nazi inventories and handwritten note by Gutmann gave evidence of looted works; works were sent for safekeeping in Switzerland, the Netherlands and the U.S.

10:30 Anne Webber’s documentary about the Gutmann story, Making a Killing

17:00 Post-war, claimants were required to file individual claimants; Goodman’s father, for example, filed over 1,000 individual claims with the Dutch government

20:00 Goodman’s senate judiciary testimony to extend the statute of limitations for restitution claims; issues that make locating works difficult include change of dimensions, titles, attributions, etc.

24:00 Avoiding litigation in favor of negotiations 

30:00 6-7 successful restitutions from Dutch Committee with one pending and a claim to be filed against a museum in the Hague 

32:00 Goodman’s complaints to Dutch Committee about its change of direction to deny claimants based on revisionist thinking that museums have feelings and care about what’s in storage; and adoption of the concept of good and bad heirs

35:00 Right of inheritance and right to private property are international principles that should be observed

39:00 Potential claims for return of Goodman’s family home Bosbeek; expectation that one in a concentration camp was still expected to pay their mortgage and property taxes; and government refusal to re-write laws to address these types of injustices

41:00 Shares of the bank that the family founded in Germany

42:00 Simon focuses on the art because searching for beautiful thinks makes the search tolerable compared with searching for the missing insurance policies

43:00 Impediments to heirs include lack of evidence 

49:00 The Orpheus Clock was used as the title of the book because of its symbolism on many levels, including that it was the first direct restitution from a German official body

 51:00 Restitution for Simon’s grandmother’s fur coats

52:00 Restitution of Orpheus Clock triggered need to revive family trust and to create compact with remaining cousins, which helped to restore familial relationships broken by the Holocaust

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

16 Nov 2020Nazi Plundered Art: Miriam Friedman Morris On the Legacy of Artist and Activist David Friedmann (1893-1980)01:44:28

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Cover art: 1922 painting by David Friedmann. To learn more, please visit David Friedmann's site,  view his 1920s portraits, and more:

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/last_portrait/friedmann.asp
https://www.visitnorman.com/events/testimony-the-life-and-work-of-david-friedman
https://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/wall-of-fame/friedmann.html
https://blog.nli.org.il/en/lbh_friedmann/?fbclid=IwAR3xrdcUEDhSyMckJDFBEXIPmWAsS8ALOGmtOPdCkMX8uX2nM175CnQ6p9

Show Notes:

2:20 born in 1893 in Austria-Hungary
2:45 Studied with German painter/printmaker Lovis Corinth and German Etcher Hermann Struck 

6:40 Lodz Ghetto then Auschwitz

11:20  Lodz Ghetto Chronicle header -  Lodz Ghetto Bridge sketch

12:30 Austrian Writer Oskar Rosenfeld wrote about Friedmann

13:40 Jewish Museum in Prague

14:00 Auschwitz Museum donation  of Polish prisoner portrait

18:40 Berlin’s Centrum Judaicum Synagogue exhibited  Polish Prisoner sketch 

20:30 1943 sketches of hat factory survived

23:00 Researcher Eva Wiater located album with 33 colorized drawings at  Jewish Historical Institute 

37:00 Artwork surfaced in France marked with number that indicates  auction  

38:50 Buffalo, New York gallery  gifted Friedman works  

44:00  claimed 800 missing works in restitution claims - 2,000 actually missing

48:00  rebuilt  life in  U.S. - created billboards

49:00  Czech exhibition in  1946 - met second wife, Hildegard Taussig 

52:52 Holocaust paintings 1945-1946 - Palestine office purchased some - 1947 Palestine tour

53:15 During D.C. Jewish Holocaust Survivior’s Conference in 1983, Miriam learned seven  are held by Yad Vashem and three are at Holocaust History Museum

55:00 Etching by Friedmann dedicated to his violin teacher located 

1:04:00 Long Island chess player’s heirs donated some of Friedmann’s chess portraits to  Cleveland Public Library

1:05:00 2009 Holocaust Era Assets Conference Panel in Prague 

1:07:30  two Holocaust series

1:10:00 Sudeten Germans in Western Bohemia's use of Holocaust series for ration cards

1:19:00 1962 returned to  Holocaust paintings 

1:27:00 Drawings of  Prague Jewish Community leaders donated to Yad Vashem

1:29:00 Album of portraits exchanged between friends

Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

14 Dec 2020Chasing Portraits: Author and Filmmaker Elizabeth Rynecki on the Legacy of Warsaw-Based Artist Moshe Rynecki (1881/1885 – 1943)00:38:27

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Please visit the Moshe Rynecki website to view his work.

To learn more about Elizabeth Rynecki's documentary and book about her journey, Chasing Portraits, please visit the Chasing Portrait's website.

To view rewards for supporting the podcast, please visit Warfare's Patreon page.

Show Notes: 

2:50 Moshe Rynecki is likened to an ethnographer and documented similar scenes that Roman Vishniac photographed

4:00 three surviving studies from Moshe’s time in the Warsaw Ghetto

5:00 Yehudit Shendar from Yad Vashem

8:00 Archives of Emanuel Ringelblum from the Warsaw Ghetto

9:15 Moshe’s decision to stay in Warsaw Ghetto to be with his people

13:30 Moshe hid 800 artworks;120 of the surviving artworks are with the Ryneckis

15:08 Warsaw’s Jewish Historical Institute has 52 works

15:14 Private collectors of Moshe’s work are in Canada, Israel, the U.S. and France

15:30 How the Jewish Historical Institute acquired the 52 works by Moshe in its collection

17:00 Restitution issues and historical justice 

20:00 Carla Shapreau

24:00 Artworks are also survivors with a story

25:00 Elizabeth Rynecki’s decision to author a book and create a film with this story

27:00 Elizabeth’s advice on seeking lost art: persistence and a sense of practicality

29:20 Books recommended by Elizabeth, including Landscape with Smoke Stacks: The Case of the Allegedly Plundered Degas that relates to a restitution case involving Simon Goodman 

35:20 Poland’s approach to restitution 


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

14 Jan 2021Max Stern Art Restitution Project: Dr. Willi Korte On Restitution of Nazi-Looted Art, Sales Under Duress, and the German Advisory Commission01:01:30

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Please visit the websites of the Max Stern Art Restitution Project and the Stern Cooperation Project to learn more.
To view rewards for supporting the podcast, please visit Warfare's Patreon page.
Show Notes:
3:30 Dr. Korte’s initial inquiries in Düsseldorf
4:00 Galerie Stern dealt in Old Masters and 19th / early 20th Century artists
4:30 Dr. Korte’s research of Nazi records and post-war restitution claims
5:50 Stern inventory sold in November 1937 at Lempertz auction house in Cologne
7:00 Stern’s 1933-1938 inventory 
9:30 post-war restitution proceeding confirmed  1937 auction was a sale under duress
11:30 Stern’s art pursued as stolen property
12:50 Max Stern Art Restitution Project unique as a foundation only
13:30 Girl from the Sabiner Mountains sold at the 1937 Lempertz Auction; surfaced in Rhode Island auction house
14:50 Civil suit for Sabiner Mountains focused on 1937 Auction as stolen property
Phases I – III Approach of Restitution:
16:20 Phase I: Sabiner Mountains case argument that sales under duress are the same as seizures and confiscations, and Stern’s 228 paintings were sold as stolen property
17:30 Stern  approached  Customs Service at  U.S. Attorney’s Office in S.D.N.Y. to have remaining 227 paintings reported to Interpol as stolen property
19:50 August 1935 Order from Nazis required Stern to shut  gallery, creating period of persecution that ran until  1937 auction
21:25 Phase II: Italian gallery that held painting sold in  1935-1937 period in its collection ignored requests from project that painting be returned;  painting then seized while it was  in New York; stipulation signed  confirmed  work sold in 1936 was sold under duress
23:10 Phase III: 2019 German Advisory Commission recommended return of painting sold by Stern in 1936, “Uhlans on the March”, and concluded  Stern was under duress as of spring/summer 1933
25:00 Project will now pursue hundreds of paintings sold as of mid-1933
27:00 Private collectors in Europe not held to German Advisory Commission’s recommendations/Washington Principles;  German collector of Sicilian landscape by Andreas Achenbach sold by Stern in 1937 sued for its listing with Interpol.
35:00  Dynamic within Germany’s  Commission  appointment of two Jewish members.
36:45 Paintings sought are mostly on  German art market with some Dutch Old Masters expected to  appear on  European/ U.S. markets.
43:20 Bruegel painting  returned by the Dutch Government.
44:30  recent criticism of  Dutch commission may invite requests to Dutch Museum.
47:00 Dutch government may have thought these claims were only P.R. problem.
48:00 Jewish gallery owners are  challenging group seeking restitution. 
52:45 justice is part of the Project’s work and  losses that have occurred thus far.
58:00  Stern Cooperation Project is a German-Canadian-Israeli scholarly research project  focused on the Stern family.


Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

01 Jan 2021Glance at Culture - The Art Dealer00:02:59

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Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

08 Jan 2021Glance at Culture - Transit00:02:59

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Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

15 Jan 2021Glance at Culture - the Hare with Amber Eyes00:03:01

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Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com.

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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