Them Before Us Podcast (Them Before Us)

We flip the script in this Them Before Us podcast episode, where Katy interviews Jenn about the confusion she experienced around gender and sexuality, and how her lived experience uniquely qualifies her in this mission that insists adults do hard things on behalf of children.

In this episode, Jenn and Katy share their London experience at the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship, the better story for marriage & family in the future, why they believe this is a global movement, and how we can create a better marriage & family culture in our own lives.

In this powerful episode, author and cultural commentator Adam B. Coleman shares his deeply personal journey from childhood pain to redemptive purpose. Adam opens up about breaking generational cycles and transforming from a young man struggling with fatherlessness to being the father his son deserves.

In his new book, "The Children We Left Behind: How Western Culture Rationalizes Family Separation & Ignores the Pain of Child Neglect", Adam unflinchingly shares his own experiences of abandonment and fatherlessness to shed light on a broader cultural crisis. He boldly challenges the notion that family breakdown is a race-specific issue, arguing instead that it’s a moral failure impacting every corner of Western society—a consequence of adults who choose self-interest over sacrifice for their children. Adam is the founder of Wrong Speak Publishing, a prolific writer, and the author of Black Victim to Black Victor.

His work regularly appears in outlets such as the New York Post, UnHerd, Newsweek, Daily Mail, and Human Events. He’s also a contributor to Dad Saves America, where he writes candidly about parenting from a father’s perspective. With a background in tech, Adam began speaking out in 2020 on issues ranging from family breakdown and DEI to wokeness and free speech.

Find more from Adam at: https://substack.com/@adambcoleman and his book at https://www.amazon.com/Children-Left-Behind-Rationalizes-Separation/dp/B0DSJZWMDL

In this episode, we get a sneak peak into Katy's third book, a collaboration of experts on how every major political issue (energy, education, business) could be seen from the perspective of children's rights. Katy also gives us the rundown on her upcoming Rome trip for the Casablanca Declaration meeting.

Next we take on some questions from social media:

• What are some of the differences in care and investment from non-related adults in a child's life compared to a biological parent?
• What is "selective reduction" in IVF and what are the statistics?

(PLEASE NOTE: At min 17:25, Katy accidentally says "adoption" twice when she means to say "abortion." Selective Reduction is a term used to mean culling out or terminating human embryos, generally when multiple embryos implant and that was not intended.)

• Is the Pro-Life movement going to hope the IVF controversy fades away since it's not a winning political issue?
• Michigan is set to overturn it's ban on surrogacy for pay (commercial surrogacy). Why is commercial surrogacy so important to some?
• What's the best way to handle being invited to a surrogacy baby shower?

From a director at Planned Parenthood to one of the most effective and well-known voices for LIFE, Dr. Abby Johnson wrote our chapter on the topic in

Pro-Child Politics: Why Every Cultural, Economic, and National Issue Is a Matter of Justice for Children.

See more from Abby at

https://abbyj.com/

https://x.com/AbbyJohnson

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwhoNHBWsizek-3cc0KlQRQ

And don't forget to pre-order your copy of #ProChildPolitics today!

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Child-Politics-Cultural-Economic-National/dp/B0D6LT3ZB3

Jenn and Katy continue their discussion of each chapter in Them Before Us Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. This week, they tackle the ethical questions surrounding surrogacy: is it an altruistic pursuit that helps women unable to conceive or who, for whatever reason, cannot bring a pregnancy to fruition? Or is surrogacy an ethical violation that commodifies women and children?

Katie Breckenridge has been involved with Them Before Us almost since its inception in 2018 and is a writer and scholar on the topics TBU covers. In today's episode, Jenn and Katie talk about "gray divorce" and some of the effects of it on adult children.

"As the phenomenon known as “gray divorce,” or divorce over the age of 50, increases (34.9 percent of all divorces in the U.S. in 2020 were among those aged 55 or older), we are learning that the effects of divorce are not unique to young children. The instability, confusion, and questions of parental loyalty don’t simply disappear when one is an adult child of divorce. This is why when we allow victims of gray divorce to speak out, we learn that even adults don’t simply “get over” their parents’ separations."

https://thembeforeus.com/the-effects-of-gray-divorce-on-adult-children/

https://thembeforeus.com/divorce-is-hardest-on-the-kids-even-when-theyre-all-grown-up/

One of the experts who submitted a chapter for "Pro-Child Politics" joins Jenn on the Them Before Us podcast today. Dan Caldwell is a former Marine and veteran of the Iraq War and now serves as the Public Policy Advisor for the foreign policy thinktank Defense Priorities. Check out more from Dan at defensepriorities.org or on X @dandcaldwell.

This episode of the Them Before Us podcast features a conversation with professor and author Nancy Pearcey, exploring what it means to truly love the body and uphold the dignity of the human person. Drawing from her book "Love Thy Body", Pearcey outlines the intellectual and personal journey that shaped her convictions and dives into the cultural narratives that separate humanity from both biological reality and God-given identity.

Check out Love Thy Body on Amazon

The discussion unpacks how the separation of body and personhood is influencing today’s most critical ethical issues, including abortion, transgender ideology, IVF, and surrogacy. Pearcey explains how this divide is used to justify everything from embryo destruction to the treatment of people as products.

Nancy Pearcey brings reason, clarity, and hope to a conversation that matters deeply in today’s world. Let us know what you think!

Bio: Nancy Pearcey is the author of Love Thy Body: Answering Hard Questions about Life and Sexuality, as well as The Toxic War on Masculinity, The Soul of Science, Saving Leonardo, Finding Truth, and two ECPA Gold Medallion Award Winners: How Now Shall We Live (coauthored with Harold Fickett and Chuck Colson) and Total Truth. Her books have been translated into 20 languages. She is professor and scholar in residence at Houston Christian University. A former agnostic, Pearcey has spoken at universities such as Princeton, Stanford, USC, and Dartmouth. She has been quoted in The New Yorker and Newsweek, highlighted as one of the five top women apologists by Christianity Today, and hailed in The Economist as "America's pre-eminent evangelical Protestant female intellectual."

In this episode, Jenn had the honor of interviewing brilliant legal scholar, author, and speaker Professor Robert P. George. George helps us further understand the concept of "natural law" and the rights & responsibilities adults have concerning justice in a society and the rights of children. You can see more of Professor George's work at his website: https://robertpgeorge.com/.

In this episode, Jenn and Katy discuss the chapter "Adoption" from Them Before Us: Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. If parents have a right to their biological mother and father, isn't TBU against adoption? The case is made that adoption is a good for society when it is properly understood and done with the rights and needs of the child in mind; Adoption treats the child as the client. It is strongly contrasted with the third-party reproduction industry, which makes children the products for adults.

In this episode, we’re joined by Christian Watson, artist, creative director, and the designer behind the Pro-Child Politics book cover, to talk about the deeper meaning of art—what it says, what it lasts for, and what it’s pointing toward.Christian shares his journey from vintage-obsessed teen to sought-after designer, and why his work is rooted in truth and beauty, not trends. He calls on Christian creatives to break free from the cycle of copying secular culture and start making art that actually shapes culture—art that points to God by being excellent, honest, and beautiful.From the story behind the book cover to reflections on cathedrals built over centuries, this conversation is a rallying cry to believers: stop reacting, and start building. Because good art isn't just good for culture—it's good theology.Jenn and Christian also chat about why Christian's company chose the year 1942, and how he brought Katy's vision for the Pro-Child Politics book cover to fruition.See more from Christian:https://1924.us/https://www.instagram.com/1924us

Jenn & Katy talk about the new book release, traveling to London, interviews with Tim Pool and Alex Clark on "The Spillover" and all the other projects in the hopper for Them Before Us.

Created Equal Vice President Seth Drayer joins Jenn on the Them Before Us podcast to share about the children's rights to life organization and their yearly "Justice Ride." They also consider whether or not pro-life organizations should show graphic images of the victims of abortion and other ways to shift the culture in this fight for the rights of unborn children.

https://www.createdequal.org/

https://www.createdequal.org/justiceride/

In this episode, Leila sits down with Jenn to discuss her book Primal Loss: The Now-Adult Children of Divorce Speak. In it, Leila shares insights from her interviews with 70 adults who experienced divorce during their childhood, adolescence, or young adulthood. The book reveals the profound impact divorce has on individuals, no matter their age.

Their conversation is both moving and insightful, offering valuable perspectives whether or not you've personally been affected by divorce. Leila’s book is a powerful resource for anyone looking to understand the experience of divorce, especially in a culture that primarily claims children care more about extra Christmas presents and bedrooms than the two people they love staying married.

Check out this book and others at her website: https://www.leilamiller.net/

Jenn and Katy chat about a woman who determined to use a sperm donor and become a "single mom by choice" in her 40's and about EPSN anchor and host Erin Andrews' infertility journey that culminated in using a surrogate. Unfortunately her "new way to talk about surrogacy" disregards the rights of the children.

In this episode you will hear from Brad Wilcox, a professor of sociology and director of the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia. He's written a new book on the importance of marriage and why it's good for all of us.

Buy Get Married: Why Americans Must Defy the Elites, Forge Strong Families, and Save Civilization

Find more from Professor Wilcox:

• https://twitter.com/BradWilcoxIFS
• https://ifstudies.org/

Katy and her nineteen co-authors submitted their manuscript for book #3, Pro-Child Politics, this week, hear the update to this resource you will want before the election this fall. Jenn and Katy also chatted about the response to her Christianity Today op-ed and answered some other questions that came in through social media.

Jenn is joined by TBU's Josh Wood and Patience Sunne to share some thoughts on the 2024 election and what's next in the battle for children's rights. What do you think?

Jenn and Katy discuss chapter 7 of Them Before Us, Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement, the dark side of Donor Conception. They explore the reality of gamete "donation" to Big Fertility, and the immoral practice of purchasing sperm and eggs in an effort to customize children. Them Before Us encourages our children’s rights advocates to consider the myriad potential harms to women who donate eggs, the women who rent their wombs for gestation, and the potential mental and physical health crisis possibilities of a child with potentially hundreds of half siblings living in their vicinity, and other ethical questions Big Fertility would prefer we all ignore.

Jenn chats with long time friend of Them Before Us, Stephanie Blessing about discovering she was conceived using a sperm "donor" (she likes to make it clear she doesn't consider it altruistic or a donation) and how it impacted her life, both in answering questions she'd always had but also in shaking up the life she thought she knew.

My Daddy's Name is Donor - https://thembeforeus.com/my-daddys-name-is-donor-study/

Stephanie's story on TBU - https://thembeforeus.com/stephanie-blessing-2/

In this episode, Jenn introduces the Them Before Us audience to TBU's Executive Director Josh Wood and they chat about TBU's new book, Pro-Child Politics, a compilation of authors presenting major political topics from the perspective of children's rights. Josh chats about the resource this book will be before the election and his contribution to the book, the conclusion.

Pre-order your copy today! https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Child-Politics-Cultural-Economic-National/dp/B0D6LT3ZB3

Jenn is joined by Jonathan Pageau to talk about his eight-book fairy tale series and why it's so important to reclaim these ancient stories to proclaim truth and beauty to a world in need. Fairytales aren't just for children but are an important part of shaping children's minds. What do you think?

"Jonathan Pageau is a renowned liturgical artist, writer, and public speaker. Jonathan started a publishing company called Symbolic World Press (SWP).

SWP’s maiden publication is The Tale of Snow White and the Widow Queen, the first of an eight-book series of fairy tales in which Pageau explores a new way of telling fairy tales: one which is both aware of our cultural moment and simultaneously committed to honoring the deeply celebratory of the roots these stories have planted in our common imagination. "

https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/

Jenn is joined by author and professor Melissa Moschella for an in-depth conversation on natural law, how it helps humanity flourish, and serves as the basis for protecting the rights of children.

For more of Professor Moschella's work, check out: https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/author/melissa-moschella/

In this episode, Jenn and Katy follow up this week's Virtual Gala with a conversation about our 2024 projects (our upcoming documentary, a human resources package that doesn't violate a child's rights and more) and answer all the burning questions we didn't get to from the webinar and social media.

• Does Them Before Us have plans for Canada, Central and South America?

• Does divorce impact adult children as well? (See our TBU article on this here.)

• Will TBU share their opinion on which political candidates are "children's rights friendly?"

• How does TBU think about the tensions of daycare and a child's need for care from mom and dad? (Check out Erika Komisar's work here and her speech at the ARC.)

• What are TBU's policy recommendations for tightening no-fault divorce laws while still protecting women from abuse?

• Are we doing work connected to foster care?

• Are we working to get pornography websites to age verify across the U.S. to protect children?

• What can we do to encourage more peer reviewed publications and studies that verify this work?
• Who has more authority over children? The biological parents or the state?

Jenn and Katy discuss why “Biology Matters” the second chapter of her book, Them Before Us - Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. They explore the importance of the relationship between a child’s biological mother and father and the social-emotional nourishment a child derives from being raised in a home with married parents who love one another, living under the same roof. Also up for discussion is the difference between step-parents, mom’s boyfriend, and adoptive parents; and finally they share some inspiring stories about non-related adults who are putting them (the children) before us (the adults).

Katy, Josh & Jenn breakdown the Vice Presidential debate and the remarkable difference in tone and substance compared to the folks at the top of the ticket.

This month, join Them Before Us as we celebrate the irreplaceable roles of both mom and dad with our #ANDnotOR campaign. In this episode, Katy and Jenn introduce #ANDnotOR and celebrate the significance of a child's father

You will also hear Mille's story, concieved using a sperm donor and raised by two women. You can also read her story here https://thembeforeus.com/millie-fontana/

We recognize that children thrive when they have the complementary benefits of both a mother and a father present in their daily lives.

⁠Click here⁠ to help us raise $50,000 for the 50% of children who are growing up without the daily presence of both their mom and dad. Let's champion a pro-child culture where every child has access to 100% of mom and 100% of dad, because every child deserves nothing less.

In this episode, journalist and Breakpoint host Maria Baer joins us to unpack one of the most urgent questions of modern parenting: Is our digital world robbing children of an embodied childhood?As a contributing author to Pro-Child Politics, Maria explores how digital tech, especially in education, is subtly but profoundly reshaping what it means to grow up. This isn’t just about screen addiction or online bullying. It’s about how technology is replacing real-world, bodily, human experiences that children need to grow, learn, and flourish.We talk about why education isn’t just about information, why physical presence matters, and how even good tech can’t replicate the relational, tactile, and spiritual formation that comes through embodied living. Plus: practical steps parents and schools can take to reclaim a more analog, more human way of raising kids.This one’s a must-listen for anyone raising or educating kids in a tech-saturated world, and for advocates who want to put children’s needs first in our cultural and policy debates.Check out more from Maria at:https://mariabaer.substack.com/https://breakpoint.org/breakpoint-podcasts/

In a world where culture is discipling our kids faster than ever, how can parents reclaim their role as the primary influence in their children’s faith? Join us as we sit down with Hillary Morgan Ferrer, founder of Mama Bear Apologetics, to discuss the biggest cultural lies targeting kids today—and how parents can equip them with biblical truth.

From shaping worldviews to tackling tough conversations on gender, sexuality, and media influence, this episode is a must-listen for every parent who wants to raise bold believers in an increasingly hostile world.

For more resources and insights, visit MamaBearApologetics.com.

Every baby born in America today starts life $80,000 in debt. In this powerful episode, Jenn is joined by fiscal expert Phil Kerpen to talk about how reckless federal spending, runaway debt, and economic myths are setting our kids up for disaster.

Kerpen, president of American Commitment and a long-time advocate for free market principles, makes the case that true pro-child politics must include fiscal responsibility. He unpacks the dangers of over-reliance on government spending, why “taxing the rich” is no solution, and how long-term debt could cripple the futures of our children and grandchildren.

This is a must-listen for anyone who wants to connect the dots between economics and ethics—and protect the next generation before it’s too late.

https://www.americancommitment.org

Author Bio: Phil Kerpen is the president of American Commitment and the Committee to Unleash Prosperity.American Commitment is a 501(c)(4) advocacy group dedicated to restoring and protecting America’s core commitment to free markets, economic growth, Constitutionally-limited government, property rights, and individual freedom.The Committee to Unleash Prosperity is a 501(c)(3) educational charity founded by supply-side icons Stephen Moore, Steve Forbes, and Art Laffer to promote faster economic growth through the key building blocks of low taxes, limited spending, less regulation, sound money, and free trade.Mr. Kerpen has previously served as vice president for policy at Americans for Prosperity and as an analyst and researcher for the Free Enterprise Fund, the Club for Growth, and the Cato Institute. A native of Brooklyn, N.Y., Mr. Kerpen lives in Washington, D.C. with his wife Joanna and their four children.

In this episode, Jenn and Katy talk about the Pope's latest comments on surrogacy and whether or not surrogacy and poly-relationships are mentioned and encouraged in the Bible. Katy and Jenn finish by dissecting a YouTube video telling men not to get married: The DEVASTATING Truth of No-Fault Divorce

• https://time.com/6553397/pope-francis-surrogacy-ban/

• https://www.npr.org/2023/12/18/1220077102/pope-francis-blessings-same-sex-couples

• Check out our friend Olivia and her comment and letter to the Pope that might have had an influence.

• https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/

Founder & Director Katy Faust and Executive Director Josh Wood join Jenn to chat about what we heard in the POTUS debate between former President Trump and Vice-President Kamala Harris and any places they missed the mark both on political substance and the protection of children's rights.

Jenn and Katy editorialize on two trending news stories that circulated this past month and consider them from the perspective that’s usually missing: the children's. Today’s episode explores the difficulty in the quest to procure a “good sperm donor”, and whether “reciprocal IVF” can satisfy the profound longings children have for familial connection.

Esquire article: https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/a44519929/sperm-donor-search-what-i-learned-about-men/

People Magazine article: https://people.com/couple-carrying-each-others-baby-reciprocal-ivf-give-birth-days-apart-my-extraordinary-family-7556199

At Them Before Us, we want to highlight things that might be a great resource for individuals and families engaging in politics and culture. Our sphere is particularly marriage & family but The Center for Biblical Unity has many great resources for Christians considering cultural topics like LGBT ideology, racism/race/CRT/DEI and more. Krista and Monique are great friends of TBU and have also brought our resources to their audiences. Check them out!

• https://www.centerforbiblicalunity.com/ - Center for Biblical Unity

• https://walkinginunity.com/ < For more on the book

• Youtube

Katy and Jenn take on two trending news articles from the perspective of the rights of the child. The first story is about Dylan, the dad of at least 96 children who goes on a road trip to meet them, navigating relationships with the social parents and his own feelings of disconnection and loss. The second story is considering the ethics of desiring and having biological children. Is wanting your own children a vestige of white supremacy, racism, or eugenics?

A Sperm Donor Chases a Role in the Lives of the 96 Children He Fathered by Wall Street Journal

Preferring Biological Children Is Immoral by Wired

Wired Contributor Claims “Preferring Biological Children Is Immoral” by Evie Magazine, featuring commentary from Katy Faust

Jenn interviews Joey Pontarelli, the Founder & CEO of Restored, a ministry to "to help teens and young adults from divorced and broken families heal and build virtue, so they can break the cycle of dysfunction and divorce." They talk about the negative impacts of divorce on their own lives and in the lives of the teens and young adults Joey ministers to and how we can rebuild a healthy marriage culture.

See more at https://restoredministry.com/.

With the recent purchases of babies from prominent gay men in American culture, Katy and Jenn consider whether or not we're allowed to critique methods of conception that violate the rights of children or if all opposition to surrogacy makes a person "anti-LGBT."

Check out Olivia's interview with Allie: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7JXYJnxLfLuJ1yav0OZ74d

Join Founder and President Katy Faust and Training Director Jenn Friesen as they sit down for a candid conversation reflecting on an eventful and impactful 2024. From celebrating the triumph of meeting our ambitious 4th-quarter fundraising goals to unpacking the unexpected drama from woke contractors at our Seattle event, Katy and Jenn dive deep into the highs and challenges of the year.

They also share their vision and enthusiasm for what’s to come in 2025 as they continue their mission to defend the rights of children across the globe

Jenn is joined by Andrew Wood, the Senior Director of Church Engagement at Care Net, as he shares powerful insights on how churches can step up and make a meaningful impact in the pro-life movement. Learn how Christians can support unborn babies, offer hope to moms and dads, and create a culture of compassion.

Don’t miss this episode filled with actionable strategies and faith-driven perspectives! Check out Care Net’s website for more resources and let us know your thoughts on this vital conversation.

https://makinglifedisciples.com/

What happens when a community steps up to support families in crisis? In this episode, we sit down with Christine Denova, Executive Director of Idahope Families, to discuss how this ministry is mobilizing the church to provide real, hands-on help to struggling parents and children. From crisis pregnancy support to hosting children in safe homes while parents regain stability, Idahope is proving that pro-life means more than just being against abortion—it means surrounding families with the love and resources they need to thrive."We're not here to replace families; we're here to support them. Every parent needs someone to walk through a crisis with them." – Christine DenovaTune in to hear how churches can re-engage in the work of caring for vulnerable families, why social capital matters, and how you can get involved. Visit idahopefamilies.org to learn more.

While the Nordic model for healthcare and education often gets high praise in the USA, Madeleine Wallin pulls back the curtain on some surprising downsides. Discover how Swedish mothers who prefer to care for their kids at home face societal pressures in a system that prioritizes institutional care. Jenn and Madeleine chat about her experience as a mother of five in Sweden, exploring how what the government prioritizes and promotes is impacting Swedish women and vulnerable children.

As a bonus, they foray accidentally into European geopolitics and learn Madeleine is going to spend time living in a house off the grid right by Russia.

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Madeleine Wallin is the Secretary General of FEFAF, European Federation of Parents and Carers at Home and on the Board and in International Relationships for the Swedish organization Haro.

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Other notes from things mentioned in the show:

Erika Komisar is a great resource in these conversations about daycare, raising children at home. Website

Madeleine is going to live in a house off the grid that used to belong to this extremely famous Finnish children's book author. Website

In this episode of the Them Before Us podcast, host Jenn sits down with Mark DeGrasse, creator of Dads in Autism Land, to explore the unique challenges and triumphs of fatherhood on the autism spectrum. Mark shares raw insights into balancing the needs of his two sons—one severely autistic and nonverbal, the other neurotypical—while navigating the emotional and relational complexities that come with parenting. From wrestling with societal expectations to the realities of marriage under pressure, this episode highlights the resilience and love that define special needs families.https://dadsinautismland.com/https://markdegrasse.comMark de Grasse is a devoted father navigating the unique realities of autism parenting while balancing the vastly different needs of his two sons. His eldest, Damien (12), has severe autism, is nonverbal, and functions at the level of a 2-3 year old, requiring constant care, patience, and creative communication. His younger son, Declan (11), is neurotypical, highly intelligent, and deeply dedicated to baseball—but more importantly, he’s developed a profound sense of empathy and understanding through his relationship with his brother.As a dad in Autismland, Mark has learned to juggle the challenges, triumphs, and unexpected lessons that come with raising both a neurodiverse and a neurotypical child. His journey is one of resilience, adaptability, and redefining what success and connection look like in a household shaped by autism.On the Dads in Autismland Podcast, Mark shares his real-world experiences—both the struggles and the victories—while offering raw, honest, and relatable insights into fatherhood. He understands the emotional weight, the uncertainty, and the sheer love that come with parenting a child on the spectrum, all while making sure his other child’s needs and ambitions are nurtured as well.Mark’s mission? To bring fellow dads together, to share stories, strategies, and support, and to remind every father walking this road that they are not alone.

Long-time fellow advocate Katherine Breckenridge joins the podcast to share about her book, "Silent Sorrows: Let's Talk About Abortion, Reproductive Technologies, and Adoption." This is a great resource about the ethical problems with IVF and other technologies, primarily from a Christian perspective. Between this and the TBU book, you'll have comprehensive secular AND Christian arguments for the rights of children. Check out more from Katie:

Book: https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Sorrows-Abortion-Reproductive-Technologies/dp/1958892491

Substack: https://katherinebreckenridge.substack.com/

Katy is back from a weekend of speaking and meetings in our nation's capital during March for Life weekend and we take on a few more questions from listeners:

- What should nurses that work with labor, delivery and other professions that encounter children's rights violating technologies do?

- How should the parent at home help their kids handle parent absence because of jobs like military deployment?

- How can we make evangelicals listen to the ethical issues with IVF and surrogacy?

Join us for an inspiring episode of the Them Before Us podcast as we sit down with Kristin Hall, a fellow advocate for children's rights who proves that passion and determination can make a difference.

Kristin, who like many of us does not have formal credentials in law or advocacy, is passionate about living out her calling to champion the rights of children in her community and context. Her story exemplifies the core message of Them Before Us—that advocacy isn't defined by titles or influence, but by the unwavering dedication of everyday adults who refuse to see children victimized.

In this episode Bobby Lopez shares his deeply personal journey of growing up in a home shaped by divorce and same-sex parenting. Reflecting on the struggles of identity, family connection, and the societal shifts that redefined marriage and parenting, Bobby provides a raw and honest account of how these experiences shaped his worldview.

He discusses his transition from childhood confusion to adult advocacy, his professional sacrifices for speaking the truth, and how faith and fatherhood ultimately brought healing. A must-listen for anyone interested in children's rights, family structure, and the long-term effects of redefining marriage. #ThemBeforeUs

Jenn and Katy talk about the newly elected U.S. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and his "covenant marriage", their upcoming London travel plans to join the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship Conference, and Melissa Kearney's new book "The Two-Parent Privilege: How Americans Stopped Getting Married and Started Falling Behind".

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ARC Forum: https://www.arcforum.com/

NPR article discussed: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/22/1207322878/single-parent-married-good-for-children-inequality

Business Insider article discussed: https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-johnson-covenant-marriage-definition-divorce-speaker-house-2023-10?op=1

Virtual Webinar: https://bit.ly/TBUgala

Jenn and Katy tackle a societal issue that has impacted the majority of the population, Chapter Five from her book Them Before Us: Divorce. They explore how much divorce hurts children, and how it impacts every aspect of their lives, from academics, to their physical and mental health; they make the case that divorce must be the last resort for any adults that have the best interest of their children at heart. This episode provides the information and tools needed to effectively discuss this heavy topic and hope for those who want to break the cycle.

Warning: Adult Themes/Conversation Them Before Us has taken a bold stand to protect children online by submitting an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in defense of Texas' age-verification law for accessing adult content. This critical law, challenged by the "Free Speech Coalition"—an industry group defending p0rnographic interests—represents a vital step toward shielding kids from harm. TBU’s brief presents a compelling children’s rights argument, emphasizing why such protections are the bare minimum states should enforce. Joining Jenn in this impactful discussion, Founder and President Katy Faust and Engagement Director Patience Sunne dive into why this fight matters and how TBU is driving a much-needed conversation at the highest court in the land. Don't miss their insights on changing the narrative to prioritize the wellbeing of children over harmful industries.

What happens when culture tries to redefine marriage, gender, and family? In this episode of theThem Before Us podcast, Jenn sits down with Glenn T. Stanton, Director of Global Family Formation Studies at Focus on the Family, to discuss why marriage still matters—especially to young people—and the vital role biological parents play in a child's well-being.

They dive into the cultural shifts that have led to the decline of marriage, the false narratives surrounding family structure, and why the belief that "love makes a family" is a dangerous myth. Glenn also tackles the rise of gender ideology, the collapse of the LGBTQ coalition, and why reclaiming the truth about male and female is essential for a thriving society.

• "Marriage is a clarifying relationship. You cannot have a civilization without marriage—that's how powerful it is."

• "Biology really does matter. The people who create the babies are the ones nature has equipped to be most effective, most committed, most safe for that child."

Jenn and Katy chat about the Alabama State Supreme Court's ruling on IVF and a number of other questions from social media or listeners:

• Will the Alabama decision change the IVF industry?
• How should we speak to our church friends who say they're Prolife but are in favor of IVF and disagree with the Alabama ruling?
• Stat we quote: 1.7 million embryos created for IVF have been thrown away, and just 7 per cent lead to pregnancy
• How do we respond to people who've already participated in children's rights violating technologies and practices?
• How should we interact with those who are considering using these processes or technologies and haven't yet?
• What's Them Before Us' stance on "fertility treatments?" and is there an ethical way to do IVF? What about IUI?
• NaProTechnology (We're not advocating for this specific office, but just trying to give people the language, a link to check it out for yourself)
• What's the best way to interact with compassion and truth to a same-sex couple living next door with kids your kid's age?
• How to change laws in your state?
• Embryo adoption?
• Should divorced Christians date/remarry?

As we approach the Abundant Life Conference on October 19th, Katy Faust will join a number of pro-life speakers and organizations to promote children-first policies before and after babies are born. One of the speakers from the conference, Daniel Parks, joins us to talk about his organization Love Life and the work they're doing to support babies and mothers around the country.

Check out more at

https://lovelife.org/

And register for the Abundant Life Conference at https://www.abundantlifewa.org/conference/

Jenn and Katy address one of the most pervasive lies in popular culture, the myth that there’s “no difference” in outcomes for children raised by same-sex parents when compared to children raised by their own mother and father.

In our kick-off episode, Katy and Jenn cover the origins of our global movement, Katy's juicy (not juicy) backstory, what sets Them Before Us apart, and our plans for the future.

Jenn and Katy tackle another around of questions from the audience:

• Is it moral to have big families with so many kids that need to be adopted?
• Can you talk about the ethics of third party reproduction if you haven't dealt with infertility?
• Is it okay for a parent to get remarried after a Biblical divorce?
• How should someone handle not wanting to attend the same-sex wedding of a family member or friend?
• Is it okay for a woman to freeze her eggs if they're not fertilized?
• What's the children's rights perspective on embryo adoption? (Check out Katy's Federalist Article.)

In this episode, we considered something many folks haven't thought of, offering human embryos that have died in the IVF process Christian burial. Jenn chats with Laura Elm, the Founder and Director of Sacred Heart Guardians, the Catholic charity that provides dignity to these little human lives so they aren't discarded with medical waste.

Tell us what you think and learn more at:

https://sacredheartguardians.org/

Jenn and Katy discuss the true definition of marriage, the importance of the marital institution as it relates to the rights of children, and the socio-cultural impact that followed the 2015 SCOTUS decision that redefined it.. . They explore poly-relationships, cohabitation, no-fault divorce, and where the blame truly lies for the dismal state of marriage in the west.

Katy and Jenn go over some interesting news around IVF and donor conception, including a woman who learned at 39 that she dated her half brother in high school and has 22 half siblings. Ireland's redefinition of womanhood and family is also considered.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/opinion/irelands-about-to-take-women-out-of-its-constitution/

https://wng.org/opinions/ireland-erases-women-1709787556

In this TBU episode, Jenn has a conversation with Scott David Allen, President of Disciple Nations Alliance and author of a new book, ⁠"10 Words to Heal our Broken World⁠." They focus on two of the words being redefined by culture to the detriment of children: sex and marriage. Check out this episode and Scott's book! https://disciplenations.org/introducing-ten-words-to-heal-our-broken-world-with-scott-allen/

Lori joins Jenn to tell our TBU advocates about The Identity Project, an amazing new resource from a collaboration of organizations and experts to equip parents, pastors, youth leaders and everyone in between on some of the trickiest topics facing us today. TBU listeners get a discount!

"The Identity Project is for parents, grandparents, teachers, leaders, ministers, medical professionals, and anyone who wants to know, speak, and advocate for the truth about human identity amid cultural chaos. Access 150+ (and growing) videos on sexuality, “gender,” and identity topics from vetted subject matter experts."

⁠https://identityproject.tv/

*Disclamer: We discuss mature themes in this podcast*

In this episode, Jon Schweppe from the American Principles Project joins us to shed light on his powerful chapter in Pro-Child Politics, fighting back against the porn industry. Jon exposes some big lies about pornography, the impact on minors and how we can fight back. Discover why the government has both the power and the duty to regulate this dangerous material and how we can safeguard our kids in the digital age.

Pre-Order Pro-Child Politics today!

• Substack: https://jonschweppe.substack.com/

• https://www.instagram.com/jonschweppe/

• X @JonSchweppe

• https://americanprinciplesproject.org/profile/jon-schweppe/

In this episode of the Them Before Us podcast, Jenn sits down with Aaron Baer, President of the Center for Christian Virtue, to discuss the compelling findings from The Hope and a Future Report. Together, they explore how the decline of marriage and family structure contributes to rising poverty, violence, and mental health struggles—and why strengthening the family unit may be the key to reversing these trends. With insights from research by Brad Wilcox and practical policy solutions, this conversation offers a powerful call to action for lawmakers, churches, and communities alike. See more at https://www.ccv.org/ #thembeforeus #ivffyi #centerforchristianvirtue #marriage #divorce

In this episode, we hear from Dr. Warren Farrell, who wrote a book called "The Boy Crisis" and has written and spoken for many years about the challenges facing men and boys in Western Culture. Let us know what you think.

https://warrenfarrell.com/

https://boycrisis.org/

Can caring for the environment and prioritizing kids go hand in hand? In this episode, Chris Barnard, president of the American Conservation Coalition, joins Jenn to challenge the mainstream narrative around environmentalism. Instead of pitting people against nature, Chris advocates for a balanced, conservationist approach that views humans, not as the problem, but as capable stewards of creation.They unpack how failed forest management has led to child-harming wildfires, why preservationist ideologies can be anti-human, and how pro-child policies must include responsible care for the earth. This is an episode that brings clarity, nuance, and hope to a conversation often filled with division and guilt.See more from Chris and the ACC at:

https://acc.eco/ https://x.com/chrisbarnarddl

Katy and Jenn chat about the TBU stance on adoption and foster care, whether or not a single mom should pursue dating, the SNL skit about gay men trying to have a baby and more.

• Is Them Before Us anti-adoption/foster care?
• Katy's thoughts on the SNL skit about gay men "trying to have a baby."
• How has Big Fertility (ivf, surrogacy, etc) gotten away with not having the same standards as adoption?
• What's the difference between surrogacy and adoption when a child loses birth mom in both?
• Should a single mom be trying to force a relationship with her child's bio dad, stay single, or try dating?
• Should step-parents adopt their stepchildren when bio parent isn't in the picture?

On this episode, Jenn got to chat with researcher Emma Waters on her work regarding surrogacy and third party reproduction. "Emma is a Research Associate in the Richard and Helen DeVos Center for Life, Religion, and Family at The Heritage Foundation."

• Emma's latest article at World Magazine: https://wng.org/opinions/exploiting-the-vulnerable-1702897285

• Cremieux Recueil's substack on the harms of surrogacy

• You can follow Emma @emlwaters on X

Content Caution: We talk about some stories of child abuse perpetuated by people who used surrogacy in the middle of the episode.

In today's episode, Katy gives an update on Them Before Us' filming in Vancouver and Jenn digs into Katy's two latest articles, "Meet 5 Accused Pedophiles Who Bought Kids Through Surrogacy" & "I Paused My Career To Have Children And It Was The Best Decision I Ever Made."

Federalist: Meet 5 Accused Pedophiles Who Bought Kids Through Surrogacy

Evie Magazine: I Paused My Career To Have Children And It Was The Best Decision I Ever Made | Evie Magazine

Katy hosts Moms for Liberty's Tiffany Justice, one of our Pro-Child Politics authors who wrote our chapter on Education. They talk about the cultural lies that teachers are the experts, that children "belong to all of us," that unions care about kids, and more. You'll feel empowered hearing about how parents are stepping up and taking on ANY institution that doesn't have their children's best interests in mind.

See more from Tiffany at:

https://x.com/4TiffanyJustice

https://www.momsforliberty.org/m4lu/

This month, join Them Before Us as we celebrate the irreplaceable roles of both mom and dad with our #ANDnotOR campaign. In this episode, Katy and Jenn introduce #ANDnotOR and celebrate the significance of a child's mother.

You will also hear Samantha's story, raised by her dad and his boyfriend, and her experience with mother hunger. You can read more of her story at https://thembeforeus.com/samantha/

We recognize that children thrive when they have the complementary benefits of both a mother and a father present in their daily lives.

Click here to help us raise $50,000 for the 50% of children who are growing up without the daily presence of both their mom and dad. Let's champion a pro-child culture where every child has access to 100% of mom and 100% of dad, because every child deserves nothing less.

Katie B. and Jenn talk about the latest study saying the kids raised by two men do better than everyone else's kids and why when we look at studies about same-sex parenting, we see that the decades of social science data is always true: a child does best raised by married bio mom + dad.

In our first Q&A bonus episode, Katy addresses questions we’ve received from our followers on social media:

• Why did Katy start Them Before Us?
• How does Katy's mom feel about TBU and Katy's work?
• What do we think about "inter-racial" adoption?
• What's the TBU position on same-sex couples adopting?
• How can we "sustain marriage" in modern society?
• What's a small scale way to support Them Before Us?

In today's episode, we get to hear from Delano Squires, a Research Fellow in the Richard and Helen DeVos Center for Life, Religion, and Family at The Heritage Foundation. His research, writing, and commentary focuses on marriage, family, and fatherhood.

You can find more from Delano at:

https://twitter.com/DelanoSquires

https://www.heritage.org/staff/delano-squires

Them Before Us staff Jenn & Patience explore Nancy Verrier's groundbreaking 1993 book, "The Primal Wound," which has stirred debate among scholars, parents, adoptees and psychologists. They dip into the existing research about maternal separation and what we know about surrogacy, the million dollar industry separating babies from their mothers for money.

Emma Water's latest article on what we know and don't about surrogacy's impact on children. And for our interview with Emma about her research, check out episode #27.

In this series wrap, Jenn and Katy cover the final chapter of  Them Before Us, Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement, by discussing Chapter 10: Join the Movement, in which they cover the myriad ways you can become part of the global children's rights movement. From simple activities like  getting engaged with our social media content, signing up for, and sharing our newsletter, joining our advocate group, helping to build our media and political networks, and by donating to our cause.

Jenn and Katy continue to unpack chapters of Them Before Us; Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. This podcast expounds on Chapter Three: Gender Matters. They deep dive into the cultural “gender is a social construct” nomenclature, and make the case that “parenting” is a misnomer; the reality is that “parenting” is best defined as “mothering” and “fathering.”

Jenn interviews Lezlee, a member of the Not Parent Expected (NPE) community on her experiences growing up and coming to learn the man who raised her wasn't her biological father.

Check out more from Lezlee at her website: www.iamlezlee.com and her book, If You Only Knew: Navigating DNA Surprises and the *NPE (Not-Parent Expected) World.

Other resources Lezlee mentioned were:

https://www.hiraethhopeandhealing.com/

https://dnasurpriseretreat.com/

Jenn and Katy talk about chapter one in the TBU book: What makes something a right and the what the difference is between natural and legal rights as it pertains to children. Then they give the children's rights perspective on three trending surrogacy news stories from across the globe.

In this powerful conversation, Delano Squires, Heritage Foundation fellow and author of the Pro-Child Politics chapter on race, joins Jenn to unpack the lies about race that are hurting children in America today.Delano exposes how media narratives, activist agendas, and race-essentialist policies twist the truth and distract us from what really matters: building strong families and safe communities for all kids, regardless of skin color.He challenges the belief that racial disparities always equal racism and warns against the seductive but destructive push for “good” discrimination as a fix. Instead, Delano offers a child-centric lens grounded in truth, dignity, and equal justice. He calls us back to biblical principles, consistent standards, and the moral courage to speak honestly, even when it’s unpopular.This episode isn’t just a critique, it’s a clear call to love children more than politics and to fight for policies that truly protect and empower the next generation.You can also hear from Delano on TBU episode #038 and see his work on X, @DelanoSquires, at The Blaze https://www.theblaze.com/u/delano_squires, and at Heritage Foundation.

What is really happening at the southern U.S. border and is it possible to consider even something like immigration from a children's rights perspective?

Our Pro-Child Politics author featured today is Lora Ries, the Director of the Border Security and Immigration Center at the Heritage Foundation. You'll finish this episode feeling much more informed at the children's rights violations happening at the border and some ideas for what can be done to make it right.

Follow Lora on X https://x.com/lora_ries

and read more of her work at https://www.heritage.org/staff/lora-ries