The Zeitcast with Jonathan Martin (Jonathan Martin)

Thanks for listening to the very first episode of The Zeitcast! Today Jonathan reflects on his past, finds himself in unusual cultural intersections, and gives his best Ric Flair impersonation.

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Edited and produced by Reese Black

In today's Friday Four, presidential candidates, the "Word of Faith" movement, and Once Upon a Time In Hollywood all collide for a nuanced critique of spirituality and popular culture.

Tara Isabella Burton in the Washington Post: “The self-centered religion shared by Marianne Williamson and President Trump:” (the conviction you can shape the world with your mind is an American tradition) https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/08/01/self-centered-religion-shared-by-marianne-williamson-president-trump/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6fbe1791f77

Alison Wilmore for BuzzFeed, A History of Women in Tarantino Movies: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alisonwillmore/quentin-tarantino-women-margot-robbie-once-upon-time

Caitlin Flanagan, Tarantino's Most Transgressive Film: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/tarantinos-most-transgressive-film/595309/

"Faith" by Bon Iver on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/3mZHmZahGKJwP0GDtWaOq8?si=jLGmGhujToG9L72NOPe72g

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We're celebrating the launch of the Zeitcast with a concert and interview with Andy Squyres! Jonathan talks to songwriter Andy Squyres about the deeper themes behind his music — both of pain and worship. Andy performs songs from his next coming album.

Listen to Andy Squyres on Apple Music and Spotify:https://music.apple.com/us/artist/andy-squyres/284184794

https://open.spotify.com/artist/1zs56l8qWxeDZ5aBAulSJU?si=CChfJ7gsSPyF1xJb6r2rkw

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In this wide open conversation, our dear friend (and Teaching Pastor at the Table) Cece Jones Davis joins us to talk about everything heavy happening in America right now. What is a discerning, theological response to the recent mass shootings? How are guns connected to white nationalism/white supremacy? And what do words have to do with it? All of this, plus talking King Saul and President Trump, on today’s Zeitcast.

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As we celebrate the life and legacy of the great Toni Morrison, we take time to remember her first novel, The Bluest Eye, and talk about how it illumines both the cross of Jesus, and the ways in which we still may be trying to crucify others.

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There are many terrors in the world right now. But many people believe in a god who is more terrible, still. In this provocative episode, we go hard into how we see God, and what it means for how we live our real lives in the world.

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Right off a plane and sleep deprived, Jonathan shares vulnerable reflections on the liminal (in-between) space from Northern Ireland—drawing from his own experiences of encountering God in Ireland’s “thin places.” If you are in transition and trying to hear the voice of God, or just find yourself—this episode is for you.

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Is the God we worship abusive and narcissistic? Or is the relationship he desires with us one of mutual reciprocity and delight? Jonathan talks to Amanda Cook on encountering the goodness of a self-giving God who makes room for us to bring our whole, unfractured selves to him.

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Recorded live from the green room at the Open Skies festival in Northern Ireland, Jonathan talks with Singer/Songwriter Pat Barrett, founder of House Fires and the writer of some of our most powerful current worship songs, including "Good, Good Father." We talk about creativity, the revolution around the theology of the character of God, and the power of music to shape us theologically in ways that nothing else can.

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Drawing from his work on “the troubles” in his own country of Northern Ireland, as well as his extensive study of the conflicts in South Africa and Israel/Palestine, Jonny Clark is uniquely qualified to speak to the violence of the age and the vocation of peacemaking. This episode is a special crossover episode with Jonny’s own podcast, Guardians of the Flame—which we highly recommend checking out!

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Guardians of the Flame: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/guardians-of-the-flame-podcast/id1440911722

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In this special episode of the Zeitcast, Jonathan visits poet & theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama, at his home in Belfast for an intimate conversation on the story that God is, & the stories that our lives tell. Plus, he shares an extraordinary new poem with us, “behold the lamb of God.”

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In a world in which there is so much false advertising, here is something that is PRECISELY what it sounds like it would be. Yes, in this conversation with London singer/songwriter Lucy Grimble, there is also talk of miracles and the like. But our hope is that you will all walk away talking about “crab hands.”

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Leeland Mooring (of the band Leeland) has written songs that are sung all over the world—like “Lion and the Lamb,” “Where you Are,” “Way Maker,” and “Carried to the Table.“ From Open Skies Netherlands, Jonathan talks with Leeland about where the melodies come from, the mystery of how particular art can only be created in particular places, and what it means to listen to your own life.

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In light of the recent high profile stories of evangelicals going through significant faith shifts, Jonathan offers his own take (and, his take on the hot takes!)

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Since we talked briefly in yesterday’s podcast about hell and judgement, we thought it might be helpful to highlight this extraordinary conversation with theologian Brad Jersak, the most listened to episode ever from the Son of a Preacher Man podcast.

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What do you do when your people reject you? What about when you are trying to live out the implications of your faith in the world, and they say you are “too political?” One of the most dynamic faith leaders in the world today, Founder of the Happy NPO, writer & speaker Carlos Rodriguez isn’t just talking the talk, he’s doing the work in Puerto Rico. But here, he’s bringing us the words that we desperately need!

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Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but a sword. We live in a divisive time, and we know that division is painful. But if there is a kind of division that Jesus brings—does that mean that there could actually be a blessing in division?!

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There has to be plucking up, pulling down, destruction, and overthrow before there is building and planting. In this intimate talk with The Table OKC's core (just before our fall launch), we reflect on 1619, and how we might discern God in the shaking that all of us feel.

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Liturgist & Writer Aaron Niequist is a guide for those of us looking for a deeper, more integrated faith. On today’s Zeitcast, Aaron shows us how a practice-based faith can help us get caught up in “the eternal current,” and the power of liturgy to alter the shape of our real lives.

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From finding faith, to becoming disillusioned with church, to founding a new faith community, the journey of activist, peacemaker, and pastor Malika Cox is almost allegorical for so many of our own. Her very story is an invitation for us to discover the power of a decolonized faith.

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In this sweeping conversation with one of our favorite theologians, Brad Jersak, we talk about it all—from constructive alternatives to all the “deconstruction” talk, to a critique of Richard Rohr’s Universal Christ, to the big question of who’s in and who’s out? Are there limits to the love of God? Is it possible to speak of the universality of God’s love, without minimizing the particularity of Jesus?

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The Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III is the pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, the author of Blue Note Preaching in a Post-Soul World, and one of America’s greatest preachers. Recorded on location at Trinity, this is an extraordinary conversation about the sound of God, preaching as jazz, Trinity’s tradition of being “unashamedly black & unapologetically Christian,” and how the Jesus of the gospels summons us to work for justice in the world today.

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Pastor/poet/prophet/Dylanologist Brian Zahnd is one of the sharpest, most incisive, prophetic voices speaking to religion and culture today. Part one of our conversation with the author of Postcards from Babylon, Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God, Farewell to Mars, Beauty Will Save the World, and Unconditional covers his origin story, his own journey from “water to wine.”

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Part two of our conversation with Brian Zahnd is a provocative critique of nationalism. We talk about whether or not America should be considered analogous to ancient Israel…or ancient Babylon? Zahnd challenges us to think of America as four things: a nation, a culture, an empire, & a religion.

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The brilliant writer and preacher Sarah Bessey talks with Jonathan about her forthcoming book, Miracles & Other Reasonable Things, charismatic experiences of God on the other side of “deconstruction,” when miracles don’t come, the loss of our friend Rachel Held Evans, and Evolving Faith.

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Juanita Rasmus is a speaker, writer, spiritual director and contemplative. She co-pastors St. John’s United Methodist Church in downtown Houston with her husband Rudy, one of the most culturally diverse churches in America. She also co-founded Bread of Life, Inc, which has changed the landscape of downtown Houston with an array of services to families in peril, & transformative services for homeless individuals. Juanita most recently teamed up with Tina Knowles Lawson and Beyoncé to help forty thousand flood victims recover in the wake of Hurricane Harvey in Houston. In today’s paradigm-shifting episode, we talk with her about when your image of God becomes too small, the story of two prodigal sons, and why God wants you to throw yourself a party.

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Who killed Jesus? In the Christian story, it’s not God the Father who killed Jesus—it’s us. God isn’t the murderer of the Son—God is the one on the cross. Recorded on location in his home in Houston, TX, we talk with singer & comedian Mark Lowry, known for his years with Gaither Vocal Band & his classic song, “Mary Did You Know.”

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Recorded on location backstage at Chesapeake Arena in OKC after a Hillsong United show, the world renown songwriter and worship leader sits down for an intimate conversation. Admitting he never felt a sense of “calling” or “purpose” himself, Joel Houston talks about trusting God to make a story of our lives; the painful, liberating business of becoming aware, and the hope and beauty he found at rock bottom.

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Where have you felt wanted? When have you felt delighted in? Could it be that any time you have brushed up against desire or delight--you brushed up against God? From a sermon preached at the Table in Oklahoma City, OK.

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As a Jungian psychotherapist and devout Christian, Tony Caldwell brings critical perspective to religious trauma, spiritual abuse, depression and suicide in faith communities. Why is it that the places that ought to be the safest things to talk about the things we hide in the dark, are often the least safe? How do we recognize religious trauma & spiritual abuse in ourselves & others? And why is that even those of us with a deep practice of our faith, still need a good therapist?

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Live from New Orleans–How do we love our neighbors who vote differently than we do?! In this highly politicized, polarized time, where we have unprecedented access to what our neighbors actually think about politics than we ever have before–finding a way to love "THEM" is no small thing! Is it even possible for people anymore to have deep ideological disagreement, and yet still maintain relationship with each other?

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One of the greatest theologians our time, David Bentley Hart is an Eastern Orthodox Scholar of religion & a philosopher, writer, & cultural commentator. He joins us to talk about his new book, That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, & Universal Salvation—out today! We talk about atonement, hell, Calvinism, and how what we believe about the character of God affects everything.

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Real-time reflection on the developing story of Trump, the whistleblower, and talk of impeachment—connecting authoritarian tendencies in the White House to authoritarian tendencies in the Church (“honor culture,” Jerry Falwell Jr., etc.). Authority structures are shaking. Are the winds of change against God, or are the winds of change the breath of God?

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Since we believe the release of David Bentley Hart’s That All Shall be Saved is a significant event, we felt like it deserved a significant review! And who better to do it than these two distinguished professors and our dear friends, Chris Green, professor of theology at Southeastern University (and author of Surprised by God, The End is Music, Sanctifying Interpretation, & Toward a Pentecostal Theology of the Lord’s Supper) and Brad Jersak (Her Gates Will Never Be Shut, A More Christlike God, A More Christlike Way, IN: Incarnation & Inclusion, Abba & Lamb). We share our thoughts on Hart’s book, eternal conscious torment, inclusion, whether or not the language of universalism is helpful, and much more!

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Sara Miles’ Take This Bread is one of Jonathan’s all-time favorite books. Today on the Zeitcast, he talks with her about the difference the Eucharist makes, & how the table continues to shape her own life.

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Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus is not just about the world to come, but coming to see the world as it is from a different point of view. There is in fact a "great chasm between us." But trapped within the matrix, most of us are blissfully unaware of the world as it really is. This provocative message is an invitation to a different kind of seeing. 1

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Author & activist Shane Claiborne worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta & founded the Simple Way in Philadelphia. His many books include The Irresistible Revolution, Jesus for President, Executing Grace, & his latest, Beating Guns. In this special episode of the Zeitcast, we are on location with Shane at the Red Letter Revival in Goldsboro, NC—outside his solar-powered skoolie (a school bus converted into a tiny house!). We talk about the ways in which the language of evangelical faith has been co-opted in the era of Trump, the need for a counter witness (& an outright revival!), how the way of Jesus is in fact narrow, the need for the power of the Spirit in justice work, & how his faith has explicitly motivated him to organize on the issues of gun violence & the death penalty.

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Lisa Sharon Harper, founder and President of Freedom Road and author of The Very Good Gospel, is one of the most important voices in the Church today. With devastating clarity, she shows us how the “gospel” many of us have been given is actually not good news at all. In this absolutely essential Zeitcast, she gives us revelatory theological perspective on race, Christianity, and most especially—the brown Jesus who was crucified by empire. Provocatively, she explains how walking away from Jesus in the name of being “woke” is actually to demonstrate white supremacy, rejecting the liberating faith of oppressed people.

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In this candid, beautiful conversation, Jonathan shares two stories about how Rob altered his life. At the heart of it is this question: what do you really want? What might it mean for you to allow yourself to want…what you really want? What if it is possible that the desires you have in your deepest, truest self are not in opposition to God, but precisely where the Spirit stirs in you? If you are in a place of discernment, trying to find your own wonder or your joy—confronting these questions honestly just might change your life, too.

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Author, speaker, disability advocate, and trauma survivor Stephanie Tait slices through the assumptions of the prosperity gospel that underwrite so many of our unhealthy ideas about faith. We talk about her gorgeous new book, The View from Rock Bottom, how she came to find God in her own pain, and ableism in the Church.

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When Brandt Jean, younger brother of Botham Jean, hugged his brother’s killer Amber Guyger, it became a viral sensation—and a powerful symbol for many of forgiveness. On today’s Zeitcast, we asked the brilliant writer, speaker, singer-songwriter Andre Henry to take us deeper not just into the story, but the story we tell about the story. Along the way we talk broader themes of forgiveness, justice, grace, cancel culture, Ellen and George W. Bush, and more!

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Mark Charles is running as an Independent Candidate for President of the United States to build a nation where—for the first time—‘We the People’ truly means ALL the people. He is the author of the forthcoming book Unsettling Truths: The Ongoing, Dehumanizing Legacy of the Doctrine of Discovery. We talk about the doctrine of discovery, how the choice America faced in the presidential election of 2016 was actually between explicit racism & implicit racism, & how he, as a former pastor, navigates questions of both Native & Christian identity.

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People of faith right now are largely experiencing the disorientation, alienation, and isolation of a season of “exile.” What would it mean to actually live well in a time of exile—to actually flourish? What it would mean not just to survive, but to thrive, in the midst of such pain and complexity? In this sermon preached from The Table in Oklahoma City, we turn to the prophet Jeremiah for answers to these very pressing, very current questions.

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For Dr. Jerome, neuroscience and the Enneagram are two pieces of the same puzzle, and they serve a powerful function when paired together. Today he introduces us to his unparalleled, science-based method to view our identity through a truly unique model: the brain-based Enneagram. He reshapes our understanding of the Enneagram to a Whole-Identity Profile instead of a single-number personality “type,” expanding our capacity for growth and health in a multitude of directions. This is an hour full of practical wisdom from the author of the very first book on the neuroscience of the Enneagram!

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Does God have an Enneagram number!? If so, what would it be!? What is the relationship of the Enneagram to the Trinity? We explore all of these questions in part two of our fascinating conversation with Dr. Jerome Lubbe on neurology and the Enneagram, plus reflect on how neurology can help us understand “deconstruction/reconstruction” in context of faith.

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Shane Claiborne returns to the podcast for a conversation with the family of Julius Jones, who is currently on death row in Oklahoma. The last recourse in his case is clemency, which was filed for just this week! We talk with Julius’ mom, Madeline, and sister, Antoinette, about how we can all help, as well as new voices that are joining the chorus of people seeking justice for Julius—including none other than Kim Kardashian West!

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A sermon preached at Harvest House Church in Greencastle, IN. Shame is always destructive, never accomplishes anything good, & should be given no place in your life, certainly not in your faith. But humiliation, friends...that’s the door to absolutely everything. Shame will strip your soul of things you actually do need. Humiliation will strip your ego of everything you don’t. Jesus washes Peter’s feet. This act does not shame him. It is tender, vulnerable. But it absolutely humiliates him. No wonder Jesus says if you don’t let me do this, you have no part with me. Humiliation is the path of salvation.

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From Gobin United Methodist Church at DePauw University. On today’s Zeitcast, the tables are turned & Jonathan is the one answering the questions! This is a very candid conversation on living in the in-between, & on the relationship of faith, nationalism & social justice. Jonathan talks openly about the awkwardness & possibilities of living at these tensions/intersections, & how his own journey has shaped his faith & work.

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Our definitive episode on all things Julius Jones, our friend who has been on death row in Oklahoma for 20 years. In this high stakes conversation, Cece Jones-Davis takes us deeply into his story from on the ground here locally, while Shane Claiborne helps us connect his story into a larger story of life and death in America. Together, they make an urgent appeal for you to get involved, and help us see how our own voices can make a difference.

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On today’s Zeitcast, journalist and author Cathleen Falsani joins us to talk about her new project, The End of Hunger. Jonathan joined contributors like Brad Paisley, Amy Grant, Bill First, Mike McHargue, Jeffrey Sachs, and others in this important new book. We talk about just how possible it is to eliminate hunger in the world by 2030, and what you can do to help. Plus since Cathleen knows Bono, frequently writes for U2, and like Jonathan is a super fan, we of course make time to talk about the really important stuff like her favorite U2 albums, and most handsome Bono looks.

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On today’s Zeitcast, Malika, Cece, and Jonathan guest lecture for St. Stephen’s University’s Institute Religion for Peace and Justice on “Jesus and Justice in the 21st Century.” This is a foundational conversation on how Scripture shapes our understanding of justice, retributive justice vs. restorative justice, the dangers of the prosperity gospel, and the bombing of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma (as recently featured on HBO’s new Watchmen series).

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The Rev. J.A. Martin makes his first appearance on the Zeitcast to talk to us about the evils of Halloween & the devilvision from Hellywood, & Jonathan talks about his top ten favorite scary movies.

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A meditation from Jonathan inviting you to be who you are, and who you have always been.

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So many of us are on a faith journey. But if your faith has shifted—what does prayer mean to you, now? What does your practice of prayer look like? Does prayer actually change anything? On today’s Zeitcast, we explore prayer on the other side of deconstruction.

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Recorded on location backstage from Anjelah Johnson’s green room at the Criterion in Oklahoma City, just before performing a brilliant stand-up set to a full house. From her professional beginning as a cheerleader for the Oakland Raiders, she moved to Los Angeles to pursue her dream of acting, where she became an internet sensation with her viral video “Nail Salon.” From there to her stint on MAD tv, to the creation of her “Bon Qui Qui” character and subsequent Bon Qui Qui albums and tours, to her many stand up specials, comedy tours, and regular film and tv work...her career has been a wild ride! But the story of her soul is an equally fascinating one. In this especially vulnerable conversation, we talk about just how exhausting “deconstructing” faith can really be, finding God and new community in the middle, and the hope of transformation on the other side.

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Jonathan decided to take his computer and microphone to St. Louis Cathedral in the heart of downtown New Orleans in the middle of night, hit record, and just see what would happen. And well…hear you go!

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In our first installment of the Zeitcast Down Under, we join our mate Jarrod McKenna in Perth—co-founder of First Home Project, co-founder of Love Makes a Way movement, Founding CEO of Common Grace Australia, & award-winning peace activist—for a conversation on why decolonization & not just deconstruction is necessary. In a sprawling, moving dialogue, we explore the “pig powers & dog domination” in Jesus’ time & our own, & reflect on a powerful experience we had with Noongar elder Uncle Tom Elder.

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Recorded on location at John Mark’s home studio in Charlotte, NC, this episode is full of exclusive content on his forthcoming new album, out in February! He announces the title of the record, we talk about what it meant for him to turn 40 last week, the sonic surprises of the new album, his attempt to build bridges in a polarizing age, and how he’s found such a joyful sound in such a heavy time. Oh and also—the world premiere of John Mark’s new single, “Juggernaut” featured here in its entirety at the end of the episode!

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On MLK day, not just as national holiday but a liturgical holy-day, we are invited to consider the life, death, & witness of one the Church's saints and what implications it has for our lives today. In this episode, we explore the connection between MLK and John the Baptist, and get a short treatment on how to read the book of Revelation responsibly.

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Whether or not you are fully convinced that you are loved makes all the difference in the world for the kind of person you will become. God's scandalous proclamation over you, no matter who you are or what you have done (or not done!), is that you are a BELOVED daughter, a BELOVED son, in whom God is WELL PLEASED. We get into the heart of belovedness as our most essential identity, detouring along the way to talk about Russell Westbrook's return to OKC, the Thunder, and Kevin Durant's insecurity as a case study for when we forget what God says about us.

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Author, provocative preacher, and Happy NPO founder Carlos Rodriguez returns to the Zeitcast for a live conversation with Jonathan in Oklahoma City. We talk about how to know when it’s time to leave your faith community, whether or not short-term “missions” trips can still be helpful, and get a deeply personal glimpse into the beauty and the challenges of his work on the ground rebuilding homes in Puerto Rico.

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IS ANYONE THIRSTY!? In this powerful talk from Carlos Rodriguez live from the Table in OKC, we encounter the undignified, primal yell of Jesus, and are invited to move from frustration into invitation.

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It has been often said that the interpreters of John’s apocalypse are even stranger than the visions & creatures he saw. Many people are understandably put off by the book of Revelation. But on today’s Zeitcast, we are bringing in two theological heavy hitters, Dr. Robby Waddell & Dr. Chris Green both of Southeastern University, to help us recover the New Testament’s most enigmatic book.

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This episode is exactly what it sounds like. In part two of our conversation with theologians Dr. Chris Green & Dr. Robby Waddell, we simply talk about...Jesus! Who he is, what he means to us now, what he means for the moment we are in. A beautiful, deeply personal conversation about the “non-anxious presence” that is always with us.

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When I was a kid, I remember hearing that Catholics “still have Jesus on the cross.” Well the Apostle Paul certainly believes in the resurrection of Christ, but he also says he decided to know nothing but “Christ crucified.” Even as people with the hope of resurrection, could it make all the difference in the world in what kind of religion we have based on whether or not our faith is actually centered/oriented around the crucifixion/the crucified one?

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How is is that Jesus can simultaneously bring such consolation, and yet so much pain? How is that he can seem to simultaneously break our hearts, and mend them? How is it that the way of Jesus can both bring people together, and yet be so divisive? The old prophet says to Mary the mother of Jesus, “a sword will pierce your own soul, too,” and that’s what today’s Zeitcast is about.

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We spend much of our lives in relative darkness. But then there are these moments of illumination, where we are really able to see—where the world lights up. And when we catch a glimpse of who God is, we are able to see who we truly are and are called to be. Today’s Zeitcast is about those moments of transfiguration, where we see something of Jesus, God’s beloved, who comes to reveal our own belovedness to us.

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In this special edition of the Zeitcast, Malika Cox and Jordan Jackson join us to present a unique presentation of the story of God, the story of the garden—your story, all of our stories. There is a choice we all must make between two trees, one of toxic religion, and one of freedom.

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You may feel like you are in a wilderness of your own choosing, or that some evil force has coerced you there. But it is in fact the Spirit that draws us out into the wilderness, over and over again. We never graduate from it. We never escape it. When we get here, we are always confronted with the same temptations: to resolve the tension prematurely, “take the Bible literally” (turning timeless truth into trivial bumper stickers), or sell our soul for influence. But there aren’t just devils waiting for us in the wilderness—there are angels waiting to minister to us, too.

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Why did Jesus have to die? What do we make of a word like “atonement,” or of the prophet Isaiah’s phrase, “stricken by God?” Is the notion that Jesus died as a substitute to take on his Abba’s wrath for us really the most faithful way to speak about the cross? We explore all these questions and more in what also turned out to be a deeply prayerful, immersive experience of the love of God led by our friend Dr. Brad Jersak.

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On today’s episode, Jonathan talks all about COVID-19. There are all these wonderful Scriptures telling us not to be afraid, but does that mean we are being unfaithful if we are in a time like this? What is responding out of “fear” vs. responding in “faith?” Plus, straight talk on the idea that the Coronavirus is a media hoax, and Jonathan shares frustration that vulnerable people connected to our own community have no access to testing.

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Hell, judgement, inclusion…these are some of the thorniest issues in Christian tradition, and we couldn’t think of a better guide than Brad Jersak. In this episode, Brad explains why he’s hopeful that God will reconcile all people, but does not identify as a universalist, what’s wrong with the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, and much, much, more!

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The conversation between Jesus and the woman at the well is the longest recorded conversation between him and anyone in the New Testament. Her whole story is, “I met a man who told me everything I had ever done.” And yet—this was good news! In a time when so many folks feel cut off, isolated, unknown…I hope the fact that you are fully seen and fully known could seem like good news to you, too.

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With the world as we have known it shutting down, as in any time of pain, disorientation, conflict, trauma…we veer back toward bad ideas about God and how the universe works. As they asked Jesus, “Who sinned, this man or his parents?” The truth is, what is happening now is an invitation to abandon all such toxic ideas about God and the world God created, and to step into a different way of seeing.

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Can you trust yourself? Can you trust your deepest desires? On today’s Zeitcast, we talk with Glennon Doyle about her new book, “Untamed”. She is the author of the #1 NY Times bestseller “Love Warrior”, as well as the NY Times bestseller "Carry On, Warrior”. An activist, speaker, and thought leader, she is also the founder and president of Together Rising, an all-women led nonprofit organization that has revolutionized grassroots philanthropy—raising over $20 million for women, families, and children in crisis, with a most frequent donation of $25. Glennon was named among the Oprah Winfrey Network’s inaugural group as one of one hundred “awakened leaders who are using their voices and talent to elevate humanity.” She lives in Florida with her wife and three children.

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We couldn’t think of anybody better to help us break down all the news surrounding COVID-19 than Mike McHargue, aka Science Mike. He helps us process the news we are hearing intellectually and emotionally, sorting through what we have heard from the administration this week, and giving those of us who are people of faith resources to reflect on what our moral imperative is to respond to what is happening in the world. Part 1 of 2.

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In part two of our especially vulnerable conversation with Mike McHargue, we dive deep into the content of his brilliant, forthcoming new book. We talk about the science of shame, “how shame produces hiding, not wholeness,” how we attempt to navigate a culture of perpetual outrage, and how our constant connection to cell phones is reshaping our brains, and the connection between that dependence and depression.

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Platinum-selling songwriter John Mark McMillan returns to the Zeitcast, and we talk about finding hope and re-enchantment in an apocalyptic time, the potential grace of the world resetting itself, building bridges between the language of science and faith, and finding that we don’t have to leave the particularity of Jesus in order to find a story big enough to encompass all things.

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With the world on pause, it’s a perfect time to read great books! Today Jonathan reflects on the books that have most shaped his life and theology.

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How do you take care of YOU during the crisis around COVID-19? How do you take care of your own soul? And what do you do as issues come up with people you are quarantined with in close quarters for long periods of time? How can we love ourselves & others well, in a time of such heightened anxiety? Jungian psychotherapist Tony Caldwell returns to the Zeitcast to help us deal with issues of mental, emotional, and relational health in a time of crisis.

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Lance Rodman, Operations Pastor at The Table in OKC, can't remember a time when he did not know about Jesus. But he did not always know the love of Jesus in a firsthand, experiential way—until he walked the long road of coming out, in the context of a conservative church environment. Yet his story is not just one of theological shift, but of integration: blessing the people and places that he came from, and refusing to exclude the people who even excluded him. A powerful, provocative, paradigm-burning, and bridge-building episode!

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The message of Good Friday is that things aren't going to end well—things just end. Violence will always run its course, hope bloodied. Today reminds us that death has the last word, on all of us. The message of Easter is that the last word isn't the final one.

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The Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis is the Senior Minister at Middle Church in New York City. In this special Holy Week conversation, we talk with her about how to approach Easter weekend during the pandemic, how death is a part of life, the connection between insurrection and resurrection, and share in a very special time of communion together.

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There is grace this Holy Saturday, for all kinds of in-between spaces.

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Resurrection is not an edict or summons, but an invitation to know the open secret humming beneath all created things—DEATH IS NOT THE END.

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The Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and one of America’s great preachers, returns to the Zeitcast to talk about this tenuous moment as “a season of revealing,” where we are collectively experiencing the severe grace of having to see ourselves and our nation as we truly are. We talk about where he’s still finding joy in the midst of this time, as well as our need to “vaccinate ourselves from the spiritual virus of lack of empathy, predatory self-interest, and privilege,” the viruses that affect the heart.

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A combustible exchange that Jonathan has described as one of his immediate favorite conversations with anybody on or off a podcast, there is so much heat on this one it almost feels like it needs a warning label! Speaking openly about the false prophets of our time during this "revelation of the real," but also the ways in which all of us are having to grapple with our essential human frailty, being forced to acknowledge we have really never been in control of our lives. And yet "the truth shall set you free," and there's nothing but liberation in this fiery conversation between friends!

What if sometimes you have to lose your faith in order to find it? What if sometimes you have to leave the temple/institution/Jerusalem, in order to get to Jesus? What if God walks with you, even on the road away from God?

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Jonathan gives you 15 films that he truly loves to help you survive the quarantine. Not a pretentious list of all respectable movies, mind you, these are the films he most loves from the gut, and watches most often. Let us know yours!

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Welcome to Season 2! Jonathan sits down for a powerful conversation with film Producer Scott Budnick. Scott is known for his work on the Hangover Franchise and most recently the devastatingly beautiful film, Just Mercy. Scott shares regarding his journey and work regarding criminal justice reform and racial equality.

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Reba Rambo’s classic album Confessions is being rereleased today, on its 40th anniversary! She’s lived such an operatic life—the daughter of gospel legend Dottie Rambo, she was first known from her years in the Singing Rambos, before carving out a career as a best-selling solo artist, going on to earn 4 Grammy nominations & win a Dove award. Confessions is her most vulnerable record, & also felt like the perfect title for this episode—as this is an especially vulnerable conversation, as she talks about reinventing after divorce, how we find God in our broken places, finding her voice again. We also debut an unreleased song she co-wrote with Jonathan, “At this table we say grace.”

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Today is the one year anniversary of when my friend Rachel Held Evans left this world and joined the great cloud of witnesses. Today’s episode, previously aired on the Son Of A Preacher Man Podcast, is from February of last year when I went to see her and Dan and the kids at their home in Dayton, TN just before I moved from Nashville to OKC; and spent the most magical day there.

Rachel did the same thing for me that she did for so many of us: created space. People who were not a people, became a people. I like to say it is like all these disparate characters written into some southern gothic novel, and she actually did “write us in”—into the gospel story her very life embodied. And that circle is ever widening, ever expanding, even now. We found that we didn’t need to leave The Story, just to reclaim it from the forces who said we had no place in it. Rachel wrestled for that reclaiming…for all of us. She wouldn’t let anybody take Jesus from her, take her Bible from her. She didn’t run away from the angry religious mob, nor from difficult texts. She was willing to fight for her faith; she was willing to fight for all of us.

And I am so grateful. I literally see her legacy playing out every single day in my own community, in the lives of people who decided to keep the faith—and in some cases decided not to take their lives—because of Rachel Held Evans. She did all of this without institutional support, without some pre-existent platform, using only the tools of impossible curiosity, fierceness, empathy, and a blue collar commitment to the craft of writing we creatives often lack. And with these, she literally created a space that actually did not exist before. -Jonathan Martin

*Producers Note-

We offer these episodes with a sense of tentative reverence. Tentative because they are so special, close, and tender. This is a glimpse into Jonathan and Rachel’s relationship, which is so much more than “content.” Reverence because these conversations feel just as vital, poignant, and brimming with the hope that Rachel exuded as the day they were recorded. This was a sacred moment, and we desire to treat it as such. As we listen together, we pray it meets you where you are, and helps you along the journey-as Rachel always did

Join us for part 2 of Jonathan’s conversation with Rachel Held Evans recorded from her home in Dayton Tennessee last February.

*Producers Note-

We offer these episodes with a sense of tentative reverence. Tentative because they are so special, close, and tender. This is a glimpse into Jonathan and Rachel’s relationship, which is so much more than “content.” Reverence because these conversations feel just as vital, poignant, and brimming with the hope that Rachel exuded as the day they were recorded. This was a sacred moment, and we desire to treat it as such. As we listen together, we pray it meets you where you are, and helps you along the journey-as Rachel always did

In this special episode Jonathan sits down for a powerful conversation with returning guest Malika Cox to discuss how to find truth in the age of conspiracy theories. Malika is the Pastor of Justice and Spiritual Formation at The Table OKC.

Malika has a deep background working with churches and non-profits specifically in regards to justice and advocacy. She specializes in peacemaking and reconciliation.

Originally recorded as an Instagram live chat, we could not think of someone with whom we’d rather discuss this timely and weighty topic. Malika has a wonderful ability to bring a fresh energetic energy to this topic, while holding the necessary tenderness for so many impacted by the seriousness of this moment and all it holds. We know you will love this Table Chat episode as such as we did.

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What does the book of Exodus, and particularly the women of Exodus, have to do with us today? Is there something from these stories we can apply to our lives today?

On today’s Zeitcast with Kelley Nikondeha we discuss her new book Defiant:What The Women Of Exodus Teach Us about Freedom.

Kelley describers herself as a practical theologian shaped by education and experience, by rhetoric and theology, by the luminous beaches of the California coast and the vibrant rhythms of Burundian drummers. She serves as the theologian-in-residence for SheLoves Magazine. As the co-director of Communities of Hope in Burundi, Kelley works to shape the theological foundation and push for deep congruence between our Biblical thinking and development practices..

In this Episode Kelley and Jonathan discuss how the women of Exodus invite us in a beautiful pattern for finding our identity, addressing patriarchy, and finding liberation in the midst of empirical oppression. Kelley beautifully weaves together the similarities and connection to the word we live in today. Join us for this beautiful and empowering episode.

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Edited and produced by Joel Everson

On today’s Zeitcast with returning guest Stephanie Tait, Jonathan and Stephanie discuss the unique moment we’re in, traversing through a global pandemic, what it really means to DO Church, and how listening to the voices of marginalized people can help lead us forward. This is a vital conversation for us in this season of time, full of life, joy, pain, and reality- we know you’ll love this special conversation.

Stephanie is an Author, speaker, disability advocate, and trauma survivor. Stephanie has harnessed her experience, writing her intimate understanding of pain into messages that foster healing within the Kingdom of God. Her commitment to equity, justice, honesty, and the theology of suffering make hers a vitally refreshing viewpoint in an industry often overrun with relentlessly positive affirmations. Her book ,The View from Rock Bottom is available everywhere fine books are sold.

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Edited and produced by Joel Everson

In this crossover event with the InVerse podcast, our beloved Australian mate Jarrod McKenna returns as we interview theologian, author and activist Drew G.I. Hart about his important text, Trouble I’ve Seen—an absolutely crucial book on race and the Church. This Monday night, May 18th, we will begin a 9-week course on the book, and we’d love for you to join us! check out Jonathan or Jarrod’s Instagram or Facebook to sign up now.

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Edited and produced by Joel Everson

On today’s Zeitcast, we sit down with world class Pentecostal scholar Dr. Cheryl Bridges Johns to talk about “benevolent patriarchy,” the difference between how men and women might experience the second half of life journey, integrating the feminine nature of God, and the quest for spiritual freedom.

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Edited and produced by Joel Everson

Jen Hatmaker is an author of several books including NY Times bestsellers For The Love and Of Mess and Moxy. She hosts the award winning For The Love Podcast and regularly found speaking through the United States. Her bookclub The Jen Hatmaker Bookclub reaches thousands of women who believe good books are everything and stories still matter.

In today’s special 100th episode, Jonathan talks with her about her new book Fierce, Free and Full of Fire- The Guide To Being Glorious You. They talk life, community, social media, cancel culture, and what it means to go on the journey with your whole self. We could not think of a better conversation to celebrate this monumental centennial episode.

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Edited and produced by Joel Everson

On today’s episode of the Zeitcast we have a conversation with Jonathan and Anna Jane Joyner. Anna Jane is a Climate Change and Environmental Activist who works tirelessly to bring awareness to bridge the gap between climate science and those in Evangelical circles, many who deny the evidence of Climate Change. She is the host of No Place Like Home podcast and founder of the Good Energy Project. In this episode Anna discusses the crisis we are facing around climate change as well as the hard questions around being in relationship with those from differing views.

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Watch The Zeitcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHzTuNKhTK-AZjfmkxQiww

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Edited and produced by Joel Everson