The Trending Communicator (Daniel Nestle)

In this episode, Dan connects with marketing strategist, researcher, author, and sought-after brand therapist Evelyn J. Starr, whose strategic insights have been instrumental in the revitalization of household names including Dunkin’ Donuts, Hasbro, Gilette, Veryfine, and more. Through decades of research and work helping brands in stagnation, she saw a pattern: brands in distress share characteristics that look a lot like rebellious, sullen, angry, confused, overconfident, misguided teens. In other words, brands go through adolescence, and it can take some serious therapy, nurturing, and guidance to help them reach successful adulthood.

She lays it all out in her recent book,  Teenage Wastebrand: How Your Brand Can Stop Struggling and Start Scaling, and in their discussion, she and Dan discuss some of the highlights, including the eight symptoms of brand adolescence, how to diagnose brand issues, the importance of solid values, and much more. Listen in and learn how to:

• Investigate the value of carving out a unique niche for a standout brand image.
• Recognize the potential hazards of ego-driven business practices and how to avoid them.
• Examine the relationship between well-defined values and a supportive company culture.
• Design a brand strategy anchored in purpose and value-driven principles.
• Excel in maintaining an authentic and dependable brand presence through effective messaging and actions.

Here's what you can expect from the show:

• Corporations and brands are just like people which is why they all have life cycles. 
• How companies can correctly identify and diagnose their brand issues if they’ve stalled. 
• Understanding attitudes and behaviors and how they impact buyers. 
• Fear and misunderstanding of marketing and how it can limit business leaders and brand growth.
• Marketing is a risky investment because the ROI can often be ambiguous, but it’s a risk worth taking.
• Business owners must learn how to parent their brands through the various stages of life. 
• How to identify the eight symptoms of brand adolescence.
• Being brave enough to have hard conversations with your brand about your brand. 
• Brands have life cycles, and so do customers. 
• Discipline is necessary to determine your niche. 
• The need to protect the integrity of your brand through the people you hire.
• The importance of making a list of values you want to be a part of your culture and your brand. 
  

Notable Quotes

• “During a summer internship I learned more about what I did not want to do than what I did want to do.” – (10:02)- Evelyn.
• “When someone says, ‘I hate marketing’, I’m not running from that, I’m digging a little bit deeper” – (13:20) – Evelyn. 
• “I started to try to find ways to explain marketing in non-marketing terms” – (14:15) - Evelyn.
• “You can’t see things when you’re too emotionally close” – (15:55) - Evelyn.
• “As my brand grows, I’m going to become more of a coach and less of a controller.” – (19:05) - Evelyn.
• “Identity crisis is the most common one (symptom) I see.” – (23:40) - Evelyn.
• “In order for a brand to get known and grow, it needs to be focused at least during the beginning.” – (37:15) - Evelyn.
• “Brands can fall out of favor very quickly due to their self-centered behavior being revealed” – (50:15) - Evelyn.
• “People bring their values to work, and you want to attract people who subscribe to the way you would like to serve your customers.” – (55:06) - Evelyn.
• “You cannot be crappy to your employees and great to your customers and not have that get out.” – (1:02:10) - Evelyn.
  

Resources and Links

The Dan Nestle Show 

• The Dan Nestle Show
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter

Evelyn Starr

• E. Starr Associates
• Evelyn Starr | LinkedIn
• Teenage Wastebrand: How Your Brand Can Stop Struggling and Start Scaling

Timestamped summary of this episode (Generated by Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction, 
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and talks about the importance of understanding the life cycle of brands. Dan shares his concerns as a parent and how it relates to building a successful brand. He introduces his guest, Evelyn Starr, a marketing leader and brand therapist, and author of the book "Teenage Waste Brand."

00:01:20 - Evelyn Starr's Background,
Evelyn Starr talks about her background and how she started her career in market research. She worked for companies like Very Fine Products, Dunkin Donuts, and Hasbro. She shares how she started working with small and medium-sized companies to help them with their marketing.

00:08:45 - The Life Cycle of Brands,
Dan Nestle asks Evelyn Starr how she got interested in helping brands in their teenage years. Evelyn shares that many business owners don't understand marketing and are fearful of investing in it. She explains how she helps them understand marketing in non-marketing terms. She talks about the different phases in the life cycle of brands and how they can face issues during their turbulent adolescence.

00:17:41 - Identifying Brand Issues,
Evelyn Starr talks about how to identify brand issues and how to diagnose them. She talks about the importance of understanding the customer and their needs. She shares examples of how she has helped companies identify their brand issues and how they have overcome them.

00:25:18 - Branding in the Digital Age,
Dan Nestle asks Evelyn Starr about branding in the digital age. Evelyn

00:15:00 - Identity Crisis,
The first symptom of brand adolescence is an identity crisis. Like in human adolescence, the brand must determine who they want to be and how they want to be perceived. A brand purpose that transcends a particular product and brand attributes that resonate with customers must be determined.

00:23:35 - Symptom Not Stages,
Evelyn Starr emphasizes that the symptoms are not sequential, but rather different characteristics of adolescent brands. Each brand may experience some or all eight symptoms at different times.

00:25:23 - Purpose and Attributes,
The brand's purpose and attributes are key in resolving the identity crisis symptom. The brand must have a purpose that is transcendent and attributes that resonate with customers. Research and feedback from customers can help define these.

00:28:45 - Therapeutic Process,
Similar to a therapeutic process, the brand must go through analyses of the why and what to solve the identity crisis. Exercises like stickies and whiteboards can help in brand discovery, purpose discovery, and attribute discovery. Evelyn Starr provides a step-by-step guide in her book.

00:29:55 - Dealing with Complexity,
The conversation begins with Dan asking Evelyn how brands deal with complexity, specifically in a house of brands where there are multiple product brands under a corporate brand. Evelyn explains that each brand needs to know who they are before they can contribute, and the parent company needs to have a unifying purpose for putting the brands together.

00:35:30 - Finding a Niche,
The topic of finding a niche comes up in relation to solving the symptom of "suffering from FOMO" or fear of missing out. Evelyn explains that in order for a brand to grow, it needs to be focused and known for something, at least in the beginning. Choosing a niche allows a brand to gain expertise and credibility, and finding a new niche can help a brand expand and grow.

00:39:17 - Fear and Innovation,
Fear is a common obstacle for business owners who are afraid of leaving money on the table or missing out on opportunities. Evelyn discusses the importance of leaving fear behind and being open to new directions and innovations. She shares the example of Amazon, who started by focusing on one product (books) before expanding to other products.

00:41:49 - Box Three Solution,
Dan shares his experience with directed innovation and the Box Three Solution, which involves finding new audiences, changes to the product, business model, or value chain. Evelyn notes that finding new niches can combat various symptoms of adolescence, including the need to assert independence, make new friends, or overcome fear of missing out.

00:46:06 - Finding Your Niche,
Evelyn advises against copying someone else's business model and suggests drilling down further to find an untapped idea. She emphasizes the importance of doing research and discovering new things that align with your brand.

00:48:41 - Self-Centeredness,
Evelyn discusses the risk of building a brand solely for profits and not serving the audience. She explains how this behavior can lead to mistrust, loss of productivity, and wasted resources. The solution is to revisit company values that align with serving the customer and the employees.

00:51:20 - The Importance of Company Values,
Evelyn explains how values guide behavior and behaviors create culture. She emphasizes the importance of codifying values from the beginning and recruiting people who share those values. A strong company culture leads to a strong brand.

00:54:05 - Trust and Culture,
Evelyn explains the connection between trust, culture, and brand. Self-centered behavior can damage a brand's reputation, making it hard to regain trust. A clear set of values that align with serving the customer and the employees can prevent this.

01:01:36 - The Employee Culture,
Evelyn discusses how the employee culture is a vital part of the brand. She stresses that the employer brand and the customer-facing brand are all one and the same and that treating employees well is just as important as treating customers well. A strong employee culture leads to a strong brand.

01:02:22 - The Importance of Employee Experience,
Businesses should prioritize the well-being of their employees as much as their customers and consumers. The kind of internal culture a company has affects its overall external brand reputation.

01:04:07 - Transparency in Branding,
Social media has made it easier for people to share their opinions about a company's internal culture, making transparency in branding more important than ever. It's crucial for marketers and business leaders to recognize that employees are a core stakeholder and audience that must be treated with the utmost care.

01:06:08 - The Impact of Teenage Wastebrand,
Evelyn Starr's book, 'Teenage Wastebrand,' highlights the signs of a company that is stuck in a state of adolescence, including a lack of purpose, values, and identity. These brands struggle to stand out in a crowded market and often do not resonate with their intended audience.

01:08:00 - Evolving Your Brand,
Evelyn Starr's brand is evolving as she incorporates developmental editing of business books into her work as a consumer insights expert and brand therapist. She helps business owners make confident marketing decisions and aligns her purpose with theirs.

01:14:50 - Why You Should Read 'Teenage Wastebrand,'
'Teenage Wastebrand' is an easily accessible, relatable, and practical guidebook that helps businesses identify their purpose, values, and niche. The book also emphasizes the importance of employee well-being and how transparency in branding is necessary

In this episode, Dan reconnects with keynote speaker, TED talker, corporate trainer, and improv podcaster Avish Parashar to stroll down memory lane and explore the benefits of an "Improv Mindset." The author of Improvise to Success and Say "Yes And!", Avish has spent decades sharing improv with business audiences as a way to discover creativity and bring about a "flow state." He and Dan dig into how improv can help us pivot, reinvent, or simply deal with change and uncertainty by teaching us how to fail with flair. We also learn about Avish's new improv podcast, In A World of Improvised Movie Homages, which really is as innovative and entertaining as it sounds.

In this episode, Dan reconnects with his very first guest, organizational development, coaching, and training leader Michael Glazer to see how the shiteration process is going. A lot has changed since Michael's first appearance in episode 2: he's now a podcaster, host of Humans At Work, and he and Dan start by talking about their podcasting experiences. The conversation evolves from there into a deep discussion of human interaction in a virtual world, what it means to be a leader today, how people can own their jobs, and much more. It's a dynamic, engaging conversation that proves how, given time and intent, shiteration is a winning strategy.

This week Dan takes a slight detour from his typical guests and connects with coach and counselor to teens, Donovan Dreyer. As someone who pivoted early in his career from aviation to counseling, Donovan knows what it means to find your purpose and pursue a more fulfilling life - and he applies his knowledge to help teens and adults alike. He and Dan talk about purpose, models you can use to assess your direction in life, how to cope with stressed-out teens, and much more in this intense and entertaining conversation. Find out more about Donovan and how he can help parents and teens at https://www.getreadycoaching.com/.

Discover the surprising transformation of "The Dan Nestle Show" into "The Trending Communicator." Just when you thought you knew what to expect, Dan flips the script, bringing a whole new focus on the power players in PR, communications, and marketing. Get ready to dive deep into the ever-changing world of communications, explore cutting-edge innovations, and unravel the impact of technology on our profession. Join Dan as he uncovers the secrets of information control and the immense responsibility that comes with it. But wait, there's more! Be prepared to meet the movers and shakers who are shaping the future of communications, from AI to neuroscience and beyond. Brace yourself for some mind-blowing insights and captivating discussions. It's a whole new era with "The Trending Communicator." Are you ready to join the conversation? Check back soon for episode one and get ready to be amazed.

Like these notes? You can thank Capsho, my AI podcast notes assistant. 

In this episode, Dan welcomes translation and localization expert Bill Lafferty, the founder of Loc Navigator, a resource-rich newsletter that helps readers understand translation and localization as drivers of business growth. An accomplished Japanese-to-English legal translator, enterprise localization project leader, and localization technology consultant, Bill has lived at the intersection of technology and translation for nearly three decades. And full disclosure: he’s been one of Dan’s best friends for over 25 years, so he knows…quite a lot about the host of the show.

He and Dan reminisce a bit and then dig into the evolution of translation and localization and the proliferation of technology in the field. Perhaps more than any other profession, translators have had to deal with ever-improving AI tools, and adaptation and skill enhancement have been par for the course. Now, with ChatGPT and LLMs performing better translations than any previous disruptive development, will translators survive? 

Find out as Bill and Dan uncover some of the misconceptions about where AI is taking the translation profession - and by extension, other language-intensive jobs. In this episode:

• Delve into the crucial role localization has in enhancing global business performance.
• Understand the influence human proficiency has on the nuance-rich translation industry.
• Scrutinize the landscape of the translation field in the new age of AI and machine translation.
• Ascertain the advantages and pitfalls of forging a career path in translation and localization.
• Embrace the importance of fostering continuous learning in the dynamic tech-driven world.

Listen in and hear…

• All about the world of translation
• The concept of localization of languages
• Perceptions about Google Translate
• Human-oriented tasks in translation
• What makes Bill so interested in language translation 
• The beauty of the Japanese language
• The intersection of software and local translation
• Legal translation and the room for growth 
• Where machine translation fails 
• ChatGPT and how it is impacting translation
• Neuro-machine translations, usages, and limitations
• On-the-fly speech translation and pixelation
• The difference between localization and translation
• Understanding taxonomy and how it plays within your business 
• The Block Chain and opportunities it brings
• How AI helps increase the capacity and quality of communications

Notable Quotes:

• “A lot of language learning comes from an openness to rhythm and sound.” – (12:49), Bill
• “There’s different levels to feeling accomplished when speaking a second language.” – (17:11), Bill
• “It was more important for me at the right age to make this really big career change into something different because I felt life would be a little less heavy.” – (20:07), Bill
• “Savvy, freelance translators are learning to use these technologies and harness them and use them as accelerators.” – (30:28), Bill
• “Low level jobs that would’ve been steps along the way are not exactly necessary anymore.” – (33:58), Dan
• “The amount of words being created everyday is just incredible.” – (35:58), Bill 
• “New tools require new operators.” – (36:28), Dan
• “Localization is one of the key drivers for global growth for any business.” – (51:03), Bill 
• “Translation is an industry that has always been shaped by infusions of technology.” – (57:23), Bill
• “Making something less complex is a huge value-add in this economy right now.” – (1:00:18), Bill
• “The better you can be at helping your customers or stakeholders to escape complexity, the more they’re going to thank you.” – (1:00:32), Bill
• “In my opinion ChatGPT promotes better mental health.” – (1:02:26), Bill
• “For freelance translators, don’t let all this noise about technology be something that is going to derail your career. Do what you love.” – (1:12:33), Bill

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) | Twitter

Bill Lafferty Links

• Loc Navigator
• Bill Lafferty - Twitter
• Bill Lafferty – Linkedin

Timestamped summary of this episode, courtesy of Capsho:

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Dan introduces the podcast and his guest, Bill Lafferty, who has a long career in translation and localization. They discuss the importance of translation in today's global economy.

00:02:37 - The Perception of Translation,
Dan and Bill talk about the misconception that translation is a commoditized service and the challenge of overcoming this perception. They highlight the need for human-oriented tasks in translation and the importance of delivering translations that feel natural to the target audience.

00:06:09 - The Commoditization of Translation,
Bill discusses the commoditization of the translation industry and the long tail of language service providers. He emphasizes the importance of understanding clients' goals and finding solutions that fit their budget.

00:07:52 - AI and Translation,
Dan and Bill touch on the advancements in AI and its impact on the translation industry. They discuss the complexities of translating multiple languages and character sets, and how translation has been grappling with these challenges for a long time.

00:11:02 - Bill's Journey in Translation,
Bill shares his journey in translation, from studying Japanese in college to being enchanted by the language. He discusses his experience as a legal translator and the rewards of learning to read Japanese at a high level.

00:15:13 - The Meticulousness of Translation,
The guest discusses the meticulous nature of translation, where one stroke or change in a character can completely change the meaning. They also highlight the challenge of finding the opposite meaning from the same character given a different conjugation.

00:15:50 - Curiosity and Connection,
The guest emphasizes the importance of curiosity and an innate sense of curiosity in learning a second language. They also express the desire to reach out and connect with others through language.

00:16:26 - Shades of Meaning in Japanese,
The guest compares languages like Japanese and Chinese to Romance languages, highlighting the complexity and multiple shades of meaning in characters. They discuss the challenge of translating legal contracts and documents from English to Japanese.

00:18:20 - Missing the Social Dynamic,
The guest shares their reason for stopping their translation career, expressing a desire for more socialization and connection with people. They enjoy talking and developing relationships, which led them to their current role in sales and client development.

00:19:47 - The Desire for Hands-On Translation,
The guest expresses a desire to return to translation and be hands-on, as they enjoy diving in and being tactile. They mention the possibility of translating short stories or engaging in more creative translation in the future.

00:30:57 - Impact of Technology on Solopreneurs and Small Business Owners,
Technology advancements like Chat GPT can disrupt industries, potentially putting solopreneurs and small business owners out of business or forcing them onto new career paths.

00:32:21 - Disruption in the Creative World,
The creative world, including industries like copywriting, marketing consulting, and translation, is experiencing disruption as technology continues to advance. Jobs that were once necessary may become obsolete as AI tools like Chat GPT become more sophisticated.

00:34:15 - The Role of Supervised Learning and Machine Translation,
In machine translation, there is a distinction between supervised learning and unsupervised learning. While Chat GPT goes through a filtration process, unsupervised machine translation can still be improved with technology advancements like neural machine translation.

00:35:33 - Balancing Machine Translation and Human Translation,
When expanding into new markets, companies must consider the balance between using machine translation and human translation. While machine translation may be budget-friendly, it's important to ensure that the first impression of a product or brand is accurate and well-translated.

00:38:43 - New Skills and Opportunities,
The introduction of AI tools like Chat GPT creates new opportunities for those who possess skills in manipulating and guiding these tools. Curiosity and a command of language are valuable assets in utilizing AI for oneself or clients.

00:46:38 - The Potential of Machine Translation,
The guest discusses the potential of machine translation, mentioning the possibility of real-time translation and the ability to overlay mouth movements in different languages. However, he notes that the marriage of technology and translation is still not fully developed.

00:47:56 - The Advancements in Machine Translation,
The guest acknowledges that developments in machine translation are already happening, citing examples such as instant translation on LinkedIn. He emphasizes that while machine translation has improved, it still comes with certain limitations and caveats.

00:49:49 - Localization vs. Translation,
The host and guest discuss localization, highlighting its importance in global business growth. They explain that localization goes beyond translation as it involves adapting content to different languages, cultures, and markets. They note that localization should be considered early on in the development process.

00:51:18 - Historical Challenges in Localization,
The guest explains that the historical paradigm of starting in a single market and expanding later has led to localization being an afterthought for many businesses. However, he mentions that forward-thinking companies are now incorporating localization into their product development from the beginning.

00:56:21 - The Future of Localization,
The guest sees a positive future for localization, as technology continues to advance and automation becomes more desired. However, he highlights the need for strategic consulting and human involvement to ensure accurate and effective localization. The challenges ahead include keeping up with evolving technology and untangling the complexities of AI in localization workflows.

01:02:41 - Promoting Better Mental Health,
The conversation starts with both Dan and Bill sharing their experiences of unhappiness in various positions throughout their careers. They discuss how using Chat GPT has helped them explore new ideas and perspectives, leading to a sense of fulfillment and better mental health.

01:03:26 - Empowering Website Development,
Bill shares a specific example of how Chat GPT helped him enhance his website, Loknavigator.com. He explains how he was able to program interactive tiles and generate personalized suggestions based on user inputs. This experience opened his mind to new possibilities and boosted his confidence in web development.

01:04:51 - Chat GPT for Code Generation,
The conversation highlights the effectiveness of Chat GPT in generating code snippets. Bill mentions that he used Chat GPT to find the snippets of code he needed to improve his website's functionality. They discuss the power of AI in code generation and its potential for improving workflow efficiency.

01:06:11 - Mindset Shifts and Pivoting,
Dan and Bill discuss how using Chat GPT has helped them shift their mindsets and approach tasks and projects from new perspectives. They also mention the importance of having someone to bounce ideas off and validate their thinking. Chat GPT serves as a helpful tool in moments of panic or uncertainty.

01:09:12 - Overcoming Learning Hurdles,
The conversation emphasizes how Chat GPT accelerates the learning process and helps overcome learning hurdles. Bill shares his personal accomplishment in using Chat GPT.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

In this episode, Dan connects with former CIO of E. & J. Gallo Winery and now founder of K2 Innovation, Kent Kushar. Kent calls himself "Coach Emeritus" because over the course of nearly half a century, he has gleaned real-world wisdom in decision-making, process improvement, leadership, vision, and strategy, and compiled his own methodologies for helping executives and improving organizational performance. He and Dan dig into the meaning of strategy, 10 critical questions for leaders, the role of luck in one's career, the importance of trust, and much more.

In this episode, Dan connects with creative director, entrepreneur, designer, and founder of Hagopian Ink, Christina Hagopian. With about two decades of experience in advertising and marketing, Christina is a well-versed strategist who built her own agency with collaboration and innovation at the forefront of her mind. As Dan and Christina discuss her journey to building her own company after beginning as a designer in the industry, they consider the future of email strategy, how effective other channels of communication are in the realm of marketing, the significance of building your team, and how you can stay up-to-date on new trends. 

In This Episode

• (03:00) Christina’s journey to where she is today 
• (7:28) True confidence and collaboration in the industry
• (11:29) Christina’s beginning as a designer
• (12:28) The evolution and development of multi-channel marketing
• (15:35) How consumer behavior is changing the way marketers produce content
• (18:55) Christina’s approach to staying up-to-date in her field
• (21:42) “Design is at the center of everything.”
• (24:23) The Social Life of Brands
• (29:23) Why email is still the preferred channel of communication
• (37:36) Engagement in your email lists 
• (40:32) Why Christina doesn’t agree with cold email outreach 
• (42:22) “I really want to have an intro where someone knows you and you feel a connection.” – The role of LinkedIn in this industry
• (43:28) Christina and Dan’s thoughts on email list buying, building, and generation
• (48:17) Co-branding and influencer strategy
• (50:20) “Have some channels supplanted certain functions of email?” 
• (59:35) The future of email marketing 
• (1:02:28) How Gen Z and Gen Alpha may influence email strategy
• (1:06:50) Where to find Christina Hagopian 

Notable Quotes

• “I realized very quickly that clients aren’t just hiring designers; they’re hiring teams.” – Christina (6:01)
• “I still believe in multi-channel marketing, and they just are different channels now.” – Christina (12:28)
• “When you’re at that mastermind level, you can’t only be in a silo. You have to reach out to other experts in your field. I hire strategists that know more than me…” – Christina (19:49)
• “Design is synonymous with experience.” – Dan (22:22) 
• “We live in our inbox. It’s where we live.” – Christina (29:32) 
• “You’re introducing a known entity to an unknown entity. And that’s why that works and that’s why that whole social side has taken off because that’s really what co-branding is, right? You’re trying to find like-minded brands that are already established…” – Christina (48:32) 
• “Giving the people on your list homage and gratitude and help them in some way. Serve them, so that they grow to be a part of your community… That’s a successful, long-term nurturing approach.” – Dan (49:41) 
• “When you’re trying to create a branded message with images and with rich content, there is no other channel that’s doing it well. There’s no other channel that does it the way that email does.” – Christina (51:24) 

Resources & Links

The Dan Nestle Show

• https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow

Christina Hagopian 

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinahagopian/
• https://hagopianink.com/
• https://www.instagram.com/hagopianink/?hl=en
• https://mobile.twitter.com/hagopianink
• https://www.facebook.com/HagopianInk/

Mentioned

• The Social Life of Brands by Matthew Egol, Mary Beth Mceuen, and Emily Falk
• Make It, Don’t Fake It by Sabrina Horn
• A Perfect Mess by Erc Abrahamson

In this episode, Dan connects with business strategist, executive coach, exit strategy specialist, and counselor to leaders in industry and government, Carri Nicholson. As The Leader Whisperer™, Carri knows how to help CEOs understand the pitfalls and obstacles that cause businesses to stall or fizzle out before achieving next-level growth or profitable exit. Her decades of experience advising leaders - first alongside her father as a business consultant, then as an officer and diplomat in the British army, and later as a CEO in her own right - have given her a comprehensive understanding of leadership. 

She and Dan talk about the challenges she faced as a woman in the UK, taking on leadership roles in the Army and the private sector, and how the power of human connections is one reason she succeeded. They talk about leadership; her observations of world leaders from playing a key role in the Middle East peace process; how CEOs manage teams and projects to scale a business end to end; and how you can become efficient at leading and becoming an effective leader. 

This 90-minute session with Carri is full of useful insights, in-depth analysis based on practical experiences, conclusions based on factual data, and online resources and recommendations that would be a great asset to anyone interested in expanding their leadership skills.

This is one episode you don’t want to miss.

In This Episode

• (01:49) Welcoming Carrie Nicholson to the Dan Nestle Show.

• (03:25) Never underestimate the power of human connections.

• (06:21) Becoming the leader whisperer.

• (13:41) The Middle East peace process post-Oslo.

• (19:07) Joining the Officer Training Corps and becoming a sniper.

• (23:54) Talking about ranks, gaining rank, and pulling rank. 

• (31:12) Leadership lessons learned through life and death.

• (33:34) Recalling her experiences at the Royal Military Academy.

• (37:46) Becoming a leader by observing other leaders in the military.

• (40:47) Meeting her 2nd husband and running the MBA program at the University of Durham.

• (44:21) Becoming the CEO of Red Squirrel Conservation Program for the UK.

• (45:15) Working with the Prince of Wales.

• (46:50) Hosting a private dinner and securing donations from the 26 wealthiest people in UK.

• (52:00) How the idea of mentoring other people came about.

• (1:02:38) The 12 blind spots of STEM people.

• (1:06:49) The challenges faced by the peas in the pod.

• (1:08:11) Managing people’s emotions and behaviors.

• (1:11:30) Talking about toxic cultures.

• (1:13:16) How venture capital companies find partners.

• (1:20:19) Discussing the best collection of business books online.

• (1:22:30) Where to start your research.

• (1:26:01) Becoming a person of your word.

• (1:29:11) Understanding leadership and how leaders think.

Notable Quotes

• “Things that the Army really did teach me is that even when you are in a position of command, you don't know everything. And I saw so many young officers fail. Because they assumed that having the rank gave them the knowledge.” – Carrie (22:45)

• “If you've come from a STEM background, you are taught and you've been drawn into that because of your personality types, you are taught that perfection is everything. What that actually means is that it can lead to procrastination because you are constantly in search of the ideal rather than the good enough, and you put off making decisions because of that.” – Carrie (1:04:17)

• “There's always that period of time where you think that the symbol that you have on your collar or on your or on your shoulder entitles you to just tell people what to do. There are rules, but you're not going to make it very long in your space or you're not going to ever get promoted. You're not going to move forward. You’re just not going to be successful in achieving your project objectives, if you don't learn how to lead and don't learn fast.” Dan (23:54)

• “Managing people means managing their emotions and behaviors, and that is something that STEM leaders can find very, very challenging and what that means is that they struggle to build functional teams. And linked into that is a communication thing. Understanding how people communicate and how to communicate your particular values and your ethos and the behaviors that you expect to see happen. And so there's a whole quadrant on the wheel, which is about understanding that you can build teams in a better way and they don't have to be dysfunctional.” Carrie (1:08:11)

• “Don't beat yourself up, guys. Because to get as far any leader to even survive a year is beating the odds. All you need is the boost to get to the next level. But you can't do that by yourself. So if it's not me, find somebody. Yeah, because everybody needs somebody in their corner.” Carrie (1:31:00) 

About Carri Nicholson

Carri Nicholson specializes in helping CEOs address blind spots that many small business leaders face when scaling their businesses. An entrepreneur herself, she's also a former British Army officer with decades of experience dealing with leaders in the military, political, and business arenas. Now, as The Leader Whisperer™, she's turned her deep understanding of management and leadership into programs that help small business owners and CEOs to become big business owners and CEOs.

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/

• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle

• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

 Carri Nicholson

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrinicholson-leaderwhisperer/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeaderWhisper

• Website: https://www.carrinicholson.com/

• Website: https://theleaderwhisperer.substack.com/

Mentions

• Five Dysfunctions of Team Leadership by Patrick Lencioni - https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756

• Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio - https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Life-Work-Ray-Dalio/dp/1501124021

In this episode, Dan connects with MIT-educated CTO, educator, cybersecurity expert, and author Mark Herschberg to discuss how to achieve career success. They dig into Mark's terrific book, The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You, and share insightful and practical advice you can implement immediately. From networking to communication to ethics, they cover skills you need to manage, and advance, your career.

This week, Dan digs into leadership, influence, service, and more with a truly dynamic duo (and the first couple to appear on the show), Lou Everett and Sherri McManus. Lou and Sherri, who together own The Lou Everett Group, share their transformative journey with Sherri's near-death experience, and how that led them to discover what matters in life and in business: helping others to transform their lives.

How do language and psychology impact leadership behavior and financial performance in organizations? Are we overlooking the influence of corporate language?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with psychologist, neuroscientist, speaker, consultant, and author of Neuroscience for Organizational Communication: A Guide for Communicators and Leaders, Dr. Laura McHale. 

Dan and Laura explore the intersection of neuroscience and organizational communication, looking into Laura’s background in executive communications and her journey into neuroscience for leadership psychology. They delve into how status affects the brain, the SCARF model, and the concept of power distance in workplace dynamics before examining the complexities of employee engagement, the impact of social exclusion, and the importance of relatedness for a sense of belonging. They touch on the challenges of absentee leadership and the significance of inclusive communication practices for a positive work environment. 

They also discuss the intricate relationship between language, communication, and AI within organizational contexts. Laura emphasizes the significance of "pronoun agility" and the problematic nature of weasel words in corporate communication. Using Enron's internal communications as a case study, they explore how language can reflect a company's financial health. The conversation also addresses the potential of AI, like ChatGPT, to revolutionize the communications field while also considering the risks of misuse and the importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience. The episode concludes with reflections on the future skills needed by communicators in an AI-influenced landscape. 

Listen in and hear…

• The importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience in communications within organizations
• The complexity of communication in remote interactions and interpreting cues
• The neuroscience behind followership and cultural influences on behavior
• Impact of status on the brain and the SCARF model
• Leader distance or power distance and its effect on communication dynamics
• Complexity and challenges of measuring and understanding employee engagement
• Impact of social exclusion in the workplace and fostering a sense of belonging
• Implications of absentee leadership on employee communications and internal communications
• The relationship between corporate language and financial performance
• Concerns about the erosion of language and acceptance of weasel words
• Potential impact of AI on the communications profession and political discourse

Notable Quotes

• [27:56] - "When our relatedness is threatened, it lights up so many pain centers of the brain; it's an extraordinarily painful phenomenon." -Dr. Laura McHale
• [22:28] -"Absentee leadership is reported seven times more than any other destructive leadership behavior; it is absolutely epidemic in our organizations and a big problem.” - Dr. Laura McHale
• [45:03] - “It really doesn't matter how perfect a communication is if the leadership behavior doesn't back it up; actions speak louder than words.” - Dr. Laura McHale
• [45:30] - “We as communicators can be brilliant at drafting words, but it ultimately needs actions and behaviors backing it up, otherwise it just becomes an exercise in cynicism.” - Dr. Laura McHale
• [47:55] - “We can only go so far in helping the leaders to frame what they're going to say, but ultimately it's going to be their behaviors that truly matter.” - Dr. Laura McHale

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Dr. Laura McHale

• Dr. Laura McHale | Website
• Dr. Laura McHale | LinkedIn
• Dr. Laura McHale | Email

Laura's Book

• Neuroscience for Organizational Communication: A Guide for Communicators and Leaders by Dr. Laura McHale

Timestamped summary for this episode (generated by Capsho, my AI assistant)

00:00:00 - Introduction to the importance of neuroscience in communication 
Dan introduces the importance of understanding neuroscience in communication and the impact it has on leadership and organizational success.

00:01:15 - Laura's journey from communicator to psychology doctorate
Laura shares her career journey from being a communicator to pursuing a doctorate in leadership psychology, driven by her fascination with leadership and human behavior.

00:06:39 - Laura's introduction to neuroscience
Laura shares her introduction to neuroscience during her academic journey, where she developed a deep interest in the subject and its application to organizational life and communication.

00:13:14 - Differentiating psychology and neuroscience
Laura explains the relationship between psychology and neuroscience, highlighting how neuroscience focuses on the physiological aspect of behavior, providing a deeper understanding of human communication and interactions.

00:15:27 - Impact of Zoom fatigue on communication
Laura discusses the impact of Zoom fatigue on communication, highlighting the neuroscientific and psychological effects of excessive screen time and self-reflection during virtual interactions.

00:16:19 - The Impact of Zoom on Self-Image and Sociological Effects
Laura discusses how our self-image impacts our focus and how the increase in dentistry and plastic surgery is related to the COVID Zoom epidemic.

00:17:07 - The Physiology of Behavior and Cultural Differences
Laura delves into the physiology of behavior and how it leads to anxiety and stress, especially in different cultural contexts and power dynamics.

00:18:23 - Power Distance and Relatedness in Leadership
The discussion explores the neuroscience behind deference to leaders and how it varies across cultures, emphasizing the importance of relatedness and its impact on the brain.

00:23:00 - Complexity of Constructs in Work
Laura highlights the complexity of constructs in the workplace, such as leader power distance, and the challenges in understanding and measuring them, emphasizing the need to acknowledge this complexity.

00:27:29 - The Pain of Social Exclusion and Impact on Communication
The conversation touches on the pain of social exclusion and its impact on workplace dynamics, emphasizing the importance of understanding and addressing relatedness in communication to avoid potential harm and misinterpretation.

00:33:43 - Inclusive and Exclusive "We"
Laura discusses the use of inclusive and exclusive "we" in language, how it impacts social exclusion in organizations, and how politicians and leaders deploy them.

00:36:15 - Absentee Leadership
Laura delves into absentee leadership, its impact on social exclusion, and the neglectful nature of this behavior in organizations.

00:37:10 - Understanding Absentee Leadership
Laura emphasizes the prevalence of absentee leadership in organizations, its impact on employees, and the need for dialogue between leaders and their teams to address this issue.

00:39:01 - Recognizing Absentee Leadership
Laura shares personal experiences of absentee leadership, the signs to look out for, and the importance of proactive communication and engagement to address this issue.

00:45:50 - Leadership and Communication
Laura highlights the symbiotic relationship between leadership behavior and communication, the significance of words in corporate discourse, and the impact of language on company performance.

00:51:49 - Importance of Authentic Leadership Communication
Dr. Laura McHale discusses the importance of aligning a leader's language with their behavior in order to avoid a disconnect. She emphasizes the need for transparent and direct communication without using negative messages padded with positive messaging.

00:53:10 - Impact of Weak Modal Words in Communication
Dr. McHale points out how weak modal words and weasel words have influenced the acceptance of ambiguous language in communication. She stresses the importance of clear and direct communication, encouraging communicators to use concrete words and active voice.

00:55:38 - Influence of AI on Communication
The conversation shifts to the impact of AI, specifically chat GPT and large language models, on communication. Dr. McHale shares insights on the potential implications and concerns related to using AI to craft messaging, highlighting its ability to generate hate speech and manipulative content.

01:01:10 - Communicators' Superpower in AI Era
Dan Nestle expresses optimism about communicators leveraging their expertise in words and language to harness the potential of AI, particularly in prompt engineering. He emphasizes the importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience in working with AI.

01:05:36 - Cynicism and Optimism in AI Application
The conversation delves into the dual nature of AI as an enabler and a potential manipulative tool. Dr. McHale discusses the need for vigilance in utilizing AI for communication and its potential impact on social cohesion and pro-social behavior.

In this episode, Dan explores the origins of his podcasting adventure with one of the people who pushed him over the edge and into the air, the relentless Adriana "Ada" Bowman. As an entrepreneur, artist, speaker, and CEO of AB+ Production, Ada does not have the word "can't" in her vocabulary but sure knows how to say "why not?" A chance encounter with her at Social Media Marketing World 2019 led to Dan meeting Cliff Ravenscraft, and the rest as they say is history. Dan and Ada talk about SMMW, marketing, being an activator, the future of social media, Gary Vee and more in this packed (and occasionally off the rails) conversation.

In this episode, Dan reconnects with a former colleague and marketing communications collaborator,  Michael Morris. A world traveler who has spent his career putting purpose at the forefront of everything he does, Michael recently co-founded Denmark-based Engagement Lab, an advisory firm specializing in behavioral insights, brand building, competitive positioning, and strategic communications – and focused exclusively on businesses in the green transition.

Dan and Michael dig into the importance of purpose and serendipity in career decisions as they explore Michael's fascinating story. Early in his career, during a stint in Ghana that didn't go according to plan, Michael realized that being a communicator gave him a unique role in bringing purpose to life, not just for himself but for his company and colleagues as well. His later work with World Vision propelled him on a purpose-driven path that continued through his work at MHI Vestas Offshore Wind, helping improve the lives of others through strategic communication. 

Through their conversation...

• Discover the road to fulfillment and maximum impact in your career, guided by purpose and authentic communication.
• Uncover the value hidden in networks and mentorships and how they unlock doors to personal and professional growth.
• Grasp the transformative power of empathy in fostering genuine relationships, elevating marketing communications to new heights.
• Understand the game-changing role of energy transition and sustainability in setting new standards for careers and businesses.
• Delve into the fascinating interplay between AI and the writing landscape, highlighting the tightrope balance between creativity amplification and preservation.

Notable Quotes:

• “It’s important for us to recognize poignant moments when they happen.” – (8:21), Michael
• “Every person that you meet is a whole new door to who knows what else.” – (11:00), Dan
• “I choose to believe that things happen for a reason because if only because then I’m more aware of when things happen and who I’m meeting with.” – (17:44), Michael
• “Let’s make sure that we’re doing our best to have continuity between the internal experience and the external messaging.” - (37:08), Michael
• “Because of tech, you don’t have an internal announcement and an external announcement, you have an announcement.” – (40:40), Michael
• “Your work is made better by cultivating and integrating your peripheral interests.” – (1:00:07), Michael
• “AI doesn’t care about the truth.” – (1:09:00), Michael
  

About Dan Nestle 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle | Twitter
  

About Michael Morris

• Engagement Lab - Website
• Michael Morris - Linkedin

The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:

00:00:00 - Introduction,
00:00:19 - The Power of Purpose,
00:04:14 - Michael's Journey,
00:08:30 - Working with Purpose,
00:15:12 - The Heartbreaking Reality in Sub-Saharan Africa,
00:16:50 - Embracing Serendipity and Openness,
00:19:42 - The Power of Storytelling in Communications and Marketing,
00:21:08 - The Superpower of Connecting Dots and Cultivating Empathy,
00:26:15 - Engagement Lab: Facilitating Connection and Empathy,
00:31:22 - Overview of Communication Scope,
00:32:47 - Communication Challenges in the Energy Transition,
00:33:27 - Identifying Needs in the Energy Transition Space,
00:35:05 - Importance of Founding Values and Employee Engagement,
00:36:23 - Internal Communications and External Messaging,
00:47:31 - Dealing with Impatience and Inspiration,
00:48:24 - The Ambivalence of Gen X,
00:49:39 - Embracing a Balanced Approach,
00:51:51 - The Long-Term Nature of the Energy Transition,
00:54:02 - Acknowledging the Benefits of Power,
01:02:54 - Introduction to Barrett Road and its Agile Approach,
01:03:25 - The Impact of AI on Writing and Creativity,
01:05:34 - AI's Potential to Replace Writers and Artists,
01:09:15 - AI's Lack of Commitment to Truth and Connection,
01:13:30 - Embracing AI as a Tool and Making Writing More Efficient,
01:17:13 - The Power of Technology in Graphic Design and Artistry,
01:18:37 - Unleashing Creativity with AI,
01:19:44 - Experience and Career Advantages in the Age of AI,
01:20:31 - Connecting with Michael Morris and Engagement Lab,
01:21:29 - Gratitude and Encouragement

Timestamped summary of this episode (also presented as generated by Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction, 
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and his guest, Michael Morris, a strategic communications professional with a passion for purpose-driven work.

00:00:19 - The Power of Purpose,
Dan and Michael discuss how purpose can transform a career and bring fulfillment. They emphasize the importance of recognizing pivotal moments and connecting with instrumental people along the way.

00:04:14 - Michael's Journey,
Michael shares his journey from working in Ghana to traveling across Africa with World Vision. He highlights the impact of experiencing adversity and how it shaped his commitment to work with purpose.

00:08:30 - Working with Purpose,
Michael and Dan discuss the significance of purpose finding you rather than the other way around. They emphasize the importance of human-to-human connections and being open to opportunities for making a positive impact.

00:15:12 - The Heartbreaking Reality in Sub-Saharan Africa,
The guest discusses the heartbreaking stories of children dying from diarrhea in sub-Saharan Africa. He emphasizes the importance of addressing this issue and highlights the work done by World Vision. He also encourages listeners to support organizations like World Vision.

00:16:50 - Embracing Serendipity and Openness,
The conversation shifts to the concept of serendipity and the importance of being open to unexpected opportunities. The guest shares his belief that things happen for a reason and encourages listeners to recognize pivotal moments in their lives. This mindset is crucial for success in the creative field and helps in building connections and empathy with others.

00:19:42 - The Power of Storytelling in Communications and Marketing,
The guest explains how storytelling plays a vital role in communications and marketing. The goal is to persuade, convince, or change minds by using the power of story and imagery. Being open to connections and embracing serendipity is essential in effectively reaching and engaging with different audiences.

00:21:08 - The Superpower of Connecting Dots and Cultivating Empathy,
The guest discusses the superpower of connecting dots that others may not see. This ability to find connections is essential in the creative field and contributes to success. It is driven by empathy, which requires mental energy and the ability to put oneself in someone else's shoes.

00:26:15 - Engagement Lab: Facilitating Connection and Empathy,
The guest introduces Engagement Lab and

00:31:22 - Overview of Communication Scope,
The guest explains that their communication services are broad but limited to engagements that include upfront research. Their specialization is in the energy transition sector.

00:32:47 - Communication Challenges in the Energy Transition,
The guest highlights the communication challenges faced by energy transition companies, such as assuming everyone believes in their mission without considering the need for effective communication and understanding of alternative solutions within the renewables industry.

00:33:27 - Identifying Needs in the Energy Transition Space,
The guest emphasizes the tremendous need for effective communication within the energy transition sector, especially for rapidly scaling companies. They discuss the strain on culture, values, and internal communications as businesses grow.

00:35:05 - Importance of Founding Values and Employee Engagement,
The conversation explores the significance of founding values and employee engagement in growing firms. Companies need to ensure continuity and alignment between internal culture and external messaging to maintain employee satisfaction and trust.

00:36:23 - Internal Communications and External Messaging,
The guest discusses the importance of internal communications and how they influence external messaging. They stress the need for consistency and alignment between the internal experience and the external image portrayed to stakeholders.

00:47:31 - Dealing with Impatience and Inspiration,
The conversation explores the dilemma of balancing impatience and inspiration in the face of climate change. It discusses the need for companies, leaders, communicators, and marketers to be inspirational while counteracting people's impatience about the state of the world.

00:48:24 - The Ambivalence of Gen X,
The hosts discuss their generation's ambivalence towards various issues but acknowledge the importance of passionate individuals working in renewable and climate change-related industries. They emphasize the need for these individuals to see the bigger picture and the importance of focusing on specific areas and products to effect change.

00:49:39 - Embracing a Balanced Approach,
The conversation emphasizes the importance of living with urgency and passion, while also maintaining a pragmatic view of the technology and practicalities involved in the energy transition. They highlight the need to blend the inspiration of environmentalists with the knowledge and understanding of technology experts.

00:51:51 - The Long-Term Nature of the Energy Transition,
The hosts discuss the reality that the energy transition is a long-term process rather than an overnight fix. They acknowledge the need for political action to accelerate the transition but emphasize that it requires time, investment, and a willingness to explore and embrace multiple solutions.

00:54:02 - Acknowledging the Benefits of Power,
The conversation acknowledges the historical benefits of power and energy in improving people's lives, despite the negative environmental impacts. They highlight the need for a cleaner and

01:02:54 - Introduction to Barrett Road and its Agile Approach,
Michael Morris discusses Barrett Road, a family business known for its tight-knit group and agile approach in client engagements.

01:03:25 - The Impact of AI on Writing and Creativity,
Michael shares his thoughts on how AI technology, such as Chat GPT, is impacting the writing process. He believes that while AI can enhance writing, the journey of exploration and creativity is what truly makes writing powerful.

01:05:34 - AI's Potential to Replace Writers and Artists,
The question of whether AI will replace writers and artists is explored, with different opinions ranging from full replacement to AI being a tool for augmentation. Michael leans towards the idea of humans staying in control of the writing process for a more meaningful connection with the audience.

01:09:15 - AI's Lack of Commitment to Truth and Connection,
Michael highlights the importance of truth and empathy in writing and how AI lacks the commitment to these aspects. He emphasizes the human-to-human connection and engagement that good writing brings.

01:13:30 - Embracing AI as a Tool and Making Writing More Efficient,
While acknowledging the benefits of AI in enhancing writing skills and accessibility, Michael suggests finding a balance between using AI as a tool and maintaining the journey of research and personal growth that comes with writing. He encourages writers to embrace AI while still staying in control of the process.

01:17:13 - The Power of Technology in Graphic Design and Artistry,
The guest expresses his surprise at the quality of work produced by AI tools like Mid Journey and Dolly, despite not having a background in graphic design. He highlights the potential for these technologies in the energy transition and cautions about the need for fact-checking.

01:18:37 - Unleashing Creativity with AI,
The guest shares an example of how Chat GPT was used to discuss the carbon credit controversy in Shakespearean style, showcasing the creative possibilities of AI. He emphasizes the importance of humans in competing with AI and hopes that these technologies won't displace people in the value chain.

01:19:44 - Experience and Career Advantages in the Age of AI,
The guest acknowledges that his and the host's experience and position in their careers protect them from being displaced by AI. He encourages others to find ways to compete with AI and expresses hope for the future.

01:20:31 - Connecting with Michael Morris and Engagement Lab,
The host provides information on how listeners can connect with Michael Morris on LinkedIn and mentions the upcoming launch of the Engagement Lab website. He encourages readers to explore the work of Engagement Lab in the energy transition.

01:21:29 - Gratitude and Encouragement,
The guest expresses his gratitude for the conversation and praises the host for incorporating different elements of his life into the podcast. The host reciprocates the appreciation and encourages listeners to subscribe and leave reviews.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

In this episode, Dan connects with author, speaker, investor, TEDx organizer, coach, and entrepreneur Dolores Hirschmann to talk about the key ingredient to achieving success: clarity. As the Chief Clarity Officer of Masters in Clarity, Dolores works with people and businesses to help them clarify their message and realize their goals. She and Dan talk about how to find clarity and introduce listeners to the IDEA Method: 9 layers of clarity (featured in her book, Clarity First) that you need to grow in a sustainable, profitable way.

In this episode, Dan goes ten frames with former pro bowler and current podcaster, author, and career coach, John Neral. As the author of Show Up: Six Strategies to Lead a More Energetic and Impactful Career, and host of The Mid-Career GPS Podcast, John helps mid-career professionals to get unstuck and find work they love or love the work they do. He and Dan get into the idea of getting unstuck, how to navigate those "mid-career moments" we've all had, the importance of values, and the art of storytelling - all in the service of learning and growing your career. And yes, we learn a bit about bowling.

In this episode, Dan dives deep into some of his favorite topics with seasoned marketing pro, thought leader, podcaster, and fellow denizen of the RISE Community, Aaron Hassen. An Air Force veteran with decades of corporate B2B sales and marketing experience, Aaron is the founder and Chief Marketer of AH Marketing, his consultancy focused on helping B2B clients multiply their annual growth. Never afraid to chase down a new idea or pursue a theory, Aaron’s bold stance on current marketing matters has led him to become “the founder’s best friend and secret weapon.” As a founder-turned-marketer, he knows what owners and founders need to market their businesses and stay connected to customers. 

He and Dan explore some of that as they discuss how trust and emotion are absolutely necessary to make the kinds of connections that will shape the current and next generation of business. Listen to their conversation, and you will:

• Discover the essential role of trust and connection in marketing for strengthening customer relationships.
• Understand how to utilize personal branding to establish a formidable bond with your target audience.
• Unearth the potential of communities in fostering trust and creating a solid connection with your customer base.
• Recognize the impact of face-to-face interaction in building an authentic connection and lasting trust.
• Learn the significance of aligning your brand values with consumers to reinforce your brand identity and build trust. 

Notable Quotes:

• “I learned from sales to listen and to really listen deeply with empathy and understanding.” (10:31), Aaron. 
• “Servant leaders and great entrepreneurs embody the same things.” – (13:17), Aaron. 
• “Sometimes we get behind these closed doors and we start to think selfishly and that’s the worst thing you can do in terms of acquiring customers in my view.” - (14:40), Aaron. 
• “Consumers have control of a brand’s reputation, and they have access to product information like they never have before.” – (16:55), Aaron. 
• “Personal brands help companies become more than a product or solution.” – (27:16), Aaron. 
• “People do not trust companies the way they used to.” (28:30), Aaron. 
• “Customers are looking for integrity that somebody is going to be consistent and reliable to their values, purpose, and vision.” – (32:03), Aaron.
• “You’ve got to go through the process of understanding who you are and what your role and relevance is in the market.” – (33:17), Aaron.
• “Different people will have different perspectives based on how they’re traversing different challenges at their company.” – (42:44), Aaron. 
• On AI. “How do I know this is a real person behind it, how do I know the information isn’t false.” – (44:45), Aaron.
• “People are seeking human beings and they ‘re looking for solutions through trusted sources.” (45:38), Aaron. 
• “Relationships are built on trust and trusted relationships drive referrals.” – (54:31), Aaron.
• “You can’t buy trust.” – (57:16), Dan.

About Dan Nestle 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) | Twitter/X
  

About Aaron Hassen

• Aaron Hassen – Website
• Aaron Hassen - Linkedin
• Aaron Hassen – YouTube
• Aaron Hassen - Twitter/X 
  
  

The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 
00:02:10 - The Value of Deep Conversations,
00:06:17 - The Emotional Side of B2B Marketing,
00:09:00 - The Journey to Becoming a Marketer,
00:12:32 - Being a Servant Leader in Marketing,
00:17:19 - The Power of Community in Building Brands,
00:18:28 - The Importance of Being Human and Building Trust,
00:20:30 - Personal Branding for All, not Just Entrepreneurs,
00:21:59 - The Success of Personal Branding,
00:28:30 - Building Personal Brands to Go Beyond Products,
00:35:01 - The Importance of Brand Identity,
00:36:07 - The Danger of Losing Focus,
00:38:01 - Trust and Connection in Marketing,
00:40:03 - The Challenge of Writing Frequency,
00:41:48 - Trust and Connection as Megatrends,
00:51:54 - Importance of In-Person Communication,
00:52:47 - Pros and Cons of Different Communication Methods,
00:54:07 - Hotels as Meeting Spaces,
00:55:39 - Trust in Different Communication Channels,
01:02:05 - The Role of AI in Trust,
01:07:40 - The Value and Challenges of Having an Intern,
01:08:03 - Teaching Once and Letting Interns Progress,
01:08:29 - The Benefits of Having Highly Skilled Unpaid Workers,
01:09:02 - Using Freedom to Innovate,
01:09:41 - AI's Origin in Humanity and the Need for Improvement

Timestamped summary of this episode, also presented as generated by Capsho:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and his guest, Aaron Hassen, who is a marketer and a contributing member of the Rise community. They discuss the importance of community and what makes a good community.

00:02:10 - The Value of Deep Conversations, 

Dan and Aaron discuss the importance of deep conversations and the value they bring in contrast to short attention spans. They both appreciate the opportunity for meaningful discussions and learning in the podcast format.

00:06:17 - The Emotional Side of B2B Marketing, 

Aaron shares his experience transitioning from the military to the corporate world and how it shaped his perspective on marketing. He emphasizes the emotional aspect of B2B marketing and the importance of trust, connection, and empathy in building relationships with customers.

00:09:00 - The Journey to Becoming a Marketer, 

Aaron talks about his path from the military to starting his own business and eventually finding his passion for marketing. He highlights the lessons he learned from sales, such as the importance of listening deeply and understanding the emotional drivers behind purchasing decisions.

00:12:32 - Being a Servant Leader in Marketing, 

Dan and Aaron discuss the qualities of a good marketer who approaches their role as a servant leader. They emphasize the importance of embodying the brand, leading with a clear vision, inspiring change, and prioritizing the needs of the customer over self-interest.

00:17:19 - The Power of Community in Building Brands, 

Brands that facilitate communities are effective in connecting with customers and building trust. Live events and personal recommendations from trusted individuals are successful because people want to belong and connect.

00:18:28 - The Importance of Being Human and Building Trust, 

In an environment where trust is lacking, it is important for brands to be more human, empathetic, and authentic. Personal branding allows marketing to connect with customers in a more personal way and build trust.

00:20:30 - Personal Branding for All, not Just Entrepreneurs, 

Personal branding should not be limited to solopreneurs and entrepreneurs. Every executive and leader can benefit from developing their personal brand to survive in a changing industry and connect with customers.

00:21:59 - The Success of Personal Branding, 

Personal branding works when it is based on authenticity, trust, and connecting with the customer's core issues. Building a personal brand that resonates with people can lead to business success.

00:28:30 - Building Personal Brands to Go Beyond Products, 

Personal brands help companies become more than just a product or a logo. By connecting with people, sharing experiences, and developing emotions, brands can build trust and create a loyal customer base.

00:35:01 - The Importance of Brand Identity, 

The conversation begins with a discussion about the significance of brand identity and how wrong positioning or a loss of values can lead to the downfall of a brand. The analogy is made that brands are like people and can also experience a loss of direction or values.

00:36:07 - The Danger of Losing Focus, 

The conversation continues by highlighting the tendency for success to cause complacency and a loss of hunger, leading to a decline in quality. This phenomenon is compared to rock bands that lose their audience after deviating from their original sound and style.

00:38:01 - Trust and Connection in Marketing, 

The conversation shifts to the importance of trust and connection in marketing. The guest emphasizes the need to build trust and establish genuine connections with customers rather than resorting to aggressive advertising or deception. The concept of personal branding and regular content creation is also discussed.

00:40:03 - The Challenge of Writing Frequency, 

The host shares his struggle with writing frequency and the guest explains the benefits of regular content creation for developing thoughts and personal brand. The guest emphasizes the importance of learning from marketing experts and staying relevant in the industry.

00:41:48 - Trust and Connection as Megatrends, 

The guest identifies trust and connection as megatrends in the B2B market. Nonlinear buyer journeys, dark social, and event-led marketing are all driven by the need for trust and connection. The guest highlights the impact of recent global events on the desire for interpersonal

00:51:54 - Importance of In-Person Communication, 

In-person communication allows for both verbal and nonverbal cues, which are crucial for effective connection and understanding. Sangrim and GTM Partners are hosting road shows to facilitate face-to-face interactions and build relationships.

00:52:47 - Pros and Cons of Different Communication Methods, 

Different communication methods have their own advantages and disadvantages. While in-person interaction is unparalleled, verbal conversations over the phone can be more focused. Each type of communication serves a purpose and has its place.

00:54:07 - Hotels as Meeting Spaces, 

With the shift to remote work, companies have closed their offices, leading to a need for temporary meeting spaces. Hotels are investing in meeting spaces to accommodate these needs and capitalize on the demand for in-person collaboration and events.

00:55:39 - Trust in Different Communication Channels, 

Content marketing has emerged as a highly trusted channel, surprising many. Live events can also be considered a form of content marketing, especially when combined with lead generation mechanisms. Trust is crucial in building relationships and driving referrals.

01:02:05 - The Role of AI in Trust, 

AI has the potential to automate tasks and improve efficiency. However, human connection and personal branding remain essential. People want to connect with creators on a personal level, share experiences, and feel a sense of empathy, which AI cannot replicate. Differentiating through humanity is key.

01:07:40 - The Value and Challenges of Having an Intern, 

Interns are a double-edged sword. While they help with grunt work, they also require teaching and supervision. This extra work is worth it because it allows you to educate and start someone off on their career.

01:08:03 - Teaching Once and Letting Interns Progress, 

The goal is to teach an intern once and then let them move forward and improve on their own. This allows you to focus on what the intern can do next and frees you up to do other work.

01:08:29 - The Benefits of Having Highly Skilled Unpaid Workers, 

Having an intern who continually improves and becomes highly skilled can be valuable, even if they are unpaid. This allows you to delegate tasks and frees up your time for more important work.

01:09:02 - Using Freedom to Innovate, 

The freedom that comes from having an intern can allow you to innovate and find new ways to improve your work. It's important to take advantage of this freedom and constantly look for new opportunities.

01:09:41 - AI's Origin in Humanity and the Need for Improvement, 

The intelligence of AI originates from humans, so it's important to address issues of bias, racism, and how we treat each other. We have the opportunity to improve and use AI to our advantage, but it starts with improving ourselves and our values.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

In this week’s episode, Dan kicks off the new year by rethinking his view of one very important and oft-maligned area of digital marketing: SEO. And he’s got one of the industry’s leading experts – Dan Golden, president, co-founder, and Chief Search Artist of Be Found Online – to thank for it. Dan and Dan dive into SEO and what marketers should know about this ever-evolving field. At times a bit geeky, at times high-level, they discuss the importance of creativity, relevance, authority, and the need to put customers in charge in order to build an effective search program. They cover challenges facing the industry and marketers in general, and Mr. Golden gives some sage advice on how to find and work with great agency partners.

In this episode, Dan explores what it means to be a successful connector and content creator on LinkedIn and beyond with recruiter, marketer, creator, and super-connector Joel Lalgee. A LinkedIn influencer in his own right, Joel now helps recruitment agency owners to become influencers in their respective fields, primarily by understanding the ins and outs of LinkedIn. He and Dan talk about how getting ahead on LinkedIn isn't a numbers game - it's an authenticity exercise, and the most important thing is to get out of your own way. From there they talk about Impostor Syndrome (and Joel's total lack of it), network quality, Clubhouse, and more - and we learn why Joel has earned the title of LinkedIn Legend in such a short time.

In this episode, Dan connects with a true architect of modern Customer Experience (CX) and a man who can claim more than most to be a relationship innovator, the founder and CEO of The Center for Client Retention (TCFCR), Richard Shapiro. 

A former VP of Customer Satisfaction and Client Retention at ADP, Rich joins Dan to discuss his passion for developing relationships, the way his early experiences in retail with his father played a role in the trajectory of his life and career, and how he’s acted as a trailblazer in the industry for customer experience. Rich has pioneered a unique path for businesses to maximize growth and revenue potential by returning to the fundamental truth of the customer experience – that customers are people first and customers second. 

Today, Dan and Rich discuss Rich’s people-first approach to customer service, how his time at ADP influenced his ideas for shifting how businesses can enrich the customer experience, the ins and outs of his book,  The Endangered Customer: 8 Steps to Guarantee Repeat Business, and how the lessons from his book are applicable to all forms of relationships. 

Notable Quotes

• “The strongest bond in any relationship or business is between two people. Whether you have an e-commerce business or have a brick-and-mortar store or a medical practice – it’s all about the 1:1 relationships. People like to feel like somebody else really cares about them, and you can’t really care about someone unless you get to know them.” (1:01:29)

In This Episode

• (02:50) Richard’s story - from his father’s partner to trailblazing a new approach to the customer experience
• (06:38) Human connection in the corporate world
• (13:15) The evolution of the customer experience throughout the decades
• (19:32) Meaningful relationships are a pillar of the customer experience
• (26:24) The levels of customer service using a people-first approach
• (30:05) Richard breaks down his 8-step process for building brand loyalty
• (36:07) Using the invite to return instead of saying no to the customer. 
• (39:48) Treating customers like people even in frustrating situations to build trust
• (43:20) The 8 steps are all about relationships
• (51:01) Richard’s personal growth in building relationships using his 8-step process 
• (55:20) Genuine curiosity and sincerity are a necessity for building relationships
• (58:45) The key to customer service: people are people, not transactions

About Richard

Richard Shapiro is the Founder and President of The Center For Client Retention (TCFCR). He is an author and mentor with expertise in brand loyalty, customer experience, and customer retention. His upbringing, paired with his time in the corporate world, shaped Richard’s ideas for how powerful the customer experience is for improving customer retention. Richard believes by taking a people-first customer–second approach, customers will enter your business as a stranger but leave as a friend, eager to return. Richard is a renowned author of books such as “The Endangered Customer: 8 Steps to Guarantee Repeat Business” and “The Welcomer Edge: Unlocking the Secrets to Repeat Business.” Richard enjoys making new friends, mentoring others, and doing architectural tours.

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• Dan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• Dan on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

The Dan Nestle Show

• Website
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube
• Spotify
• Google Podcasts
• Stitcher
• Deezer

Richard Shapiro

• Richard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardrshapiro/?locale=es_ES
• Richard on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RichardRShapiro
• The Center for Client Retention: https://www.tcfcr.com/
• The Endangered Customer on Amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/Endangered-Customer-Guarantee-Repeat-Business/dp/099800300X

In this episode, Dan has the privilege of connecting with award-winning CEO, leader, business builder, PR industry innovator and now best-selling author, Sabrina Horn. One of the youngest CEOs of her time and certainly a trailblazer for women in tech, Sabrina founded Horn Group at age 29 and rapidly grew the firm into one of Silicon Valley's leading communications agencies. In her bestselling book, Make It, Don't Fake It: Leading with Authenticity for Real Business Success, she shares the lessons she learned over her 25+ years as a CEO, starting with a hard-earned truth: faking it ruins reputations and, if it escalates, can ruin lives. She and Dan dig into the book and have a great conversation about faking it and other bad advice they've both followed from time to time. Sabrina shares workable, actionable advice for being an ethical, honest, resilient leader.

In this episode, Dan gets into reinvention and renewal with inspirational career coach Cynthia K. Wade, founder and managing director of do-over.me, a not-for-profit corporation that provides practical, professional services to anyone seeking meaningful employment. They discuss how Cynthia faced professional and personal challenges that led to her own do-over, and then explore reinvention in a broad conversation about finding meaning and accepting who you are. It's a revelatory, humorous, and touching discussion that you won't want to miss.

In this episode, Dan connects with serial learner, social media trainer, speaker, and founder and owner of Beyond Engagement, Valentina Escobar-Gonzalez. Dan and Valentina sit down to chat about community, the ins and outs of social media, the importance of putting yourself out there and just “showing up,” the keys to authentically connecting with people through social media, and the pros and cons of Web3’s development and advancement. 

Valentina Escobar-Gonzalez is a serial learner and expert social media marketer with an unquenchable desire to speak with and engage with people. As a well-known speaker and social media educator, she understands how to combine social media marketing principles with authentic relationship-building to develop true connections and create a purposeful community online. Her years of expertise help her cater to business owners who do not understand how to put humanity in their marketing.

In This Episode

• (4:29) How Valentina became dedicated to selfless learning 

• (13:14) Is there a difference between marketing and PR? 

• (17:28) The importance of putting yourself out there and staying determined

• (28:58) Quantifying the ROI of putting yourself out there

• (31:46) How Valentina built and evolved her social media business 

• (34:40) Social media is a tool to help you truly connect with people

• (44:29) Organically collecting connections and building a community as a result

• (50:50) Web3’s development is fascinating and terrifying

• (1:03:15) What keeps Valentina up at night? 

• (1:13:34) Final message from Valentina 

Notable Quotes

• “I started taking notes on everyone and really understanding people because I think you have to be prepared. You have to do research. You [have to] have the tools. There’s no excuse to bond with someone if they have a profile; there is a way to really identify and create a relationship with someone if you take the time to research who they are and what they stand for.” - Valentina (5:35)

• “I went up to have him [I met his wife and him] and had him sign my book, and I’m like, “I don’t know who he is. Let’s talk about golf because he’s from Florida, so maybe he’s a golfer.” He was not a golfer, but somehow [we] we took a picture, we stayed in touch, I followed him on Twitter, and I found his address on his website. At one point, I either sent him a thank you card or a Christmas card…You keep in contact with folks…It’s all about putting yourself out there. If I had not taken that step to go get the book signed by Mark and just talk about golf [you know, being an ex-Floridian] and just putting myself out there and just taking the initiative to write him a little hand-written card…You know, that sort of stuff. - Valentina (17:48)

• “The idea of going up to somebody who I’ve admired from afar or I’m familiar with their books…you know, you have this kind of image or this feeling that they’re too busy or they’re too famous or whatever to spend any time with you. It took me far [far] too long in my life to get to the point where I was like, “why should I care?” Right? If they don’t wanna talk to me, they’ll just turn around, and they’ll go someplace else, and then, you know, that just means they’re a dick.” - Dan (21:47)

• “When I started my business, I only knew one other person who was getting paid in the area to do social media. At the time, not even the agencies had social media. I said to myself, “it’s a way to communicate with your customers. How are you gonna know how to sell to them, how to approach them, how to market to them, if you don’t know what they’re saying?” - Valentina (33:41)

• “You don’t really know what you’re gonna get out of a relationship when you first meet someone. You don’t know the ripple effect…how much it’s gonna impact you, your family, [and] your contacts. And I think it’s just the desire to be a connector. I might not be able to help you, but I might direct you to the right person.” - Valentina (46:58)

About Valentina

Valentina Gonzalez is a seasoned marketer, social media strategist, serial learner, speaker, and marketing educator specializing in helping individuals and their businesses build authentic connections with their social media to boost customer relations and create a strong, purposeful community online. She also deeply understands digital content, social media platforms, social listening practices, and digital marketing strategies, with over 10 years of experience in the world of social media. As a co-author of the upcoming book,  “The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever,” she collaborates with over 35 fellow marketers to give you their combined top strategies for 2023 and beyond. She has been featured in multiple podcasts available on her website and has won several prestigious awards throughout her marketing career. 

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/

• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle

• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

Valentina Escobar-Gonzalez 

• Website: https://beyond-engagement.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/equinevalentina/

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BeyondEngagement

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/EquineValentina

• Guest appearances: https://beyond-engagement.com/podcasts/

In this episode, Dan sits down with kindred spirit and fellow champion of curiosity, Deryl Sweeney. A successful entrepreneur who has built and sold successful businesses, Deryl learned that success without values is hollow. Now, through Deryl Sweeney Coaching, he helps entrepreneurs and business leaders understand what success really means to them so that they can build the life they really want. He and Dan go deep on what it means to chase success, how values and purpose are the keys to freedom, how intentionality and mindset are indispensable, and how curiosity - free of judgment - is foundational to, well, everything.

In the episode, Dan connects with US Army veteran, logistics expert, and creator of Meaning Forge, Jim Benton. As the name suggests, Jim is deeply concerned about meaning – and he’s on a mission to help others use their experiences to forge meaning in their own lives. He’s developed an interview framework based on mythological symbols that helps his subjects uncover their purpose and envision their legacy. Dan and Jim talk about how the Forge came about and much more as they serve up a conversation rich in meaning, purpose, and a fair share of symbols. Jim’s perspective is one you won’t want to miss.

In This Episode

• (3:10) James talks about his journey
• (12:36) The turning point in his life
• (14:35) Key lesson he learned
• (19:46) What are the six hard leadership lessons?
• (26:15) "I failed in this relationship."
• (33:49) How James helped people find their meaning with Forge
• (48:07) Difference between meaning and purpose
• (55:10) Lessons James learned from his previous interviews

Notable Quotes

• "Leaders make leaders because it's a developmental process. Leaders have to spot talent in other leaders and in that raw state start to cultivate, create space for those people to lead." - James (24.22)
• "Life is not about destination ladies and gentlemen, it's about the journey; unfortunately, or fortunately!" - James (30.54)
• “Having some grace and self forgiveness. So you're gonna make it, gonna make mistakes. Make a decision. See what happens!” - James (24.08)
• “Let's talk subordinates. You own that relationship. Like you own their failures, you own their successes. And of course when they succeed, you have to defer. Like when you own it, you have to give it to them.” - James (25.41)

Resources & Links

• Six Hard Leadership Lessons from an Army Captain (linkedin.com)
• Looking In - Author Traci Philips
• Lincoln on Leadership - Book by Donald T. Phillips

James Benton

• James Benton CSCP, PMP - Control Tower Program Manager - IBM | LinkedIn
• Meaning Forge (buzzsprout.com)
• YouTube Channel - Meaning Forge

The Dan Nestle Show

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook

Shout Outs to Traci Philips, Lou Everett & Sherri McManus

• Traci Philips on LinkedIn
• Lou Everett on LinkedIn
• Sheri McManus on LinkedIn

Like it or not, Generative AI is becoming part of the communications toolkit. But unlike any technology that has preceded it, AI is able to perform tasks and produce results that have always been the domain of PR professionals - especially at the entry-level. And that's just today; AI is only going to get better. How can communicators and marketers adapt, adopt, and advance in this new, AI-enabled reality?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle dives deep into the challenges and opportunities AI presents for communications professionals with Anne Green, CEO of G&S Business Communications. Anne, an award-winning communicator, thought leader, and advocate for ethics within the PR profession, is leading the charge toward AI enablement within her agency and for her clients. But she’s keenly aware of the technology's black-box nature and, in the episode, outlines an approach that ensures ethical adoption and enablement.

Anne and Dan delve into these ethical considerations and much more as they examine the evolving role of AI in marketing and communications. They discuss the importance of approaching AI with a critical and ethical lens, considering its impact on human interactions and the industry's hiring practices. At the same time, they explore how AI can enhance strategic thinking and help communications professionals deliver greater impact to their businesses. Anne also shares her concerns about online divisiveness and disinformation, emphasizing resilience and big-picture focus. The episode concludes with a positive outlook on human creativity and the importance of staying engaged in societal discussions.

Listen in and hear about...

• Ethical dilemmas for marketers in the tech and AI revolution.
• The critical role of ethics in AI-driven marketing.
• AI's growing business role and the imperative of strategic adoption.
• The need to find a personal advantage in new tech adoption.
• Adapting to AI's impact on communication and thought.
• The importance of bridging AI and organizational goals.
• The rise of online disinformation and its societal impact.
• Optimism in the human capacity for innovation.

Notable Quotes

• [05:50] "I want to see writing that's electric, that leaps off the page, even if it's a marketing pitch or something." - Anne Green
  
• [20:13] "There's a lot of misperceptions about what this industry is about, but like anything in human life, there are the angels and the bad actors." - Anne Green
  
• [29:01] "I want to invite people to think about big picture questions like what will it mean to be human? What does authorship mean? What does it mean to have co-intelligence or augmented intellect?" - Anne Green
  
• [41:08] "In the case of generative AI, you need to approach it as if you are about to have an interaction." - Dan Nestle
  
• [01:05:01] "I am kept up with the proliferation of divisiveness and fake stuff online, and very much engineered disinformation, which is upsetting to me." - Anne Green

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Anne Green

• G&S Business Communications | Website
• Anne Green | LinkedIn

Timestamped summary for this episode (generated by ChatGPT)

[00:01:15] Anne Green's career path

Anne Green discusses her career path, from an internship to becoming CEO, highlighting the accidental nature of her journey.

[00:06:10] Reflecting on past experiences

Dan Nestle and Anne Green reminisce about their past experiences, specifically their connection through Cooper Katz and the impact of their mentors.

[00:10:56] The enduring importance of writing

Dan Nestle emphasizes the timeless importance of writing and critical thinking in the PR profession, despite technological advancements.

[00:13:14] Adapting to changes in communications

Anne Green reflects on the changes in communication, from the advent of social media to the impact of technology on writing and critical thinking.

[00:16:14] The role of PR in upholding quality

Dan Nestle discusses the frustration of spin in PR and the need for the profession to uphold quality, truth, and critical thinking.

[00:19:22] Challenges in content quality

Dan Nestle and Anne Green acknowledge the prevalence of low-quality content and the need for PR to play a role in promoting good writing and ethical standards.

[00:19:31] Ethical Awareness in the Industry

Discussion about ethical awareness in the communications field and the responsibility to maintain integrity.

[00:21:15] Adoption of New Technology

Exploring the industry's capability to use new technology tools and the need to bring an ethical lens to their usage.

[00:24:46] Impact of AI on the Profession

Discussion on the changing landscape of the communications profession due to the rise of artificial intelligence and the need for professionals to adapt.

[00:35:17] The Personal Relationship with Technology

Exploring the personal impact of technology and the process of finding "killer apps" that create a personal connection with technology.

[00:38:23] Projection into the Future

Contemplation on the profound changes brought about by new technology and the challenges of projecting forward in a rapidly changing industry.

[00:39:16] The complexity of AI

Discussion about the evolving security measures and the need to adapt to changing technological threats.

[00:40:04] Understanding the "black box" of AI

Exploring the mystery and complexity of AI's decision-making processes and the work being done to uncover its inner workings.

[00:41:04] Learning a new way of speaking to AI

Adapting communication styles to interact effectively with AI, emphasizing the need for a different approach compared to traditional search engines.

[00:42:07] Refining questions for AI interaction

Emphasizing the need for iterative and refined questioning when engaging with AI to extract the desired information.

[00:44:14] Adapting to conversational AI

Drawing parallels between the evolution of search engines and the need to adapt to conversational AI, highlighting the shift in interaction styles.

[00:45:55] Challenges and opportunities with AI adoption

Discussing the learning curve, mindset shift, and the potential for leveraging AI to work smarter and add value.

[00:53:19] AI's impact on communication professionals

Exploring the unique skill set of communication professionals and their potential to excel in leveraging AI for business and client needs.

[00:55:42] Evolving roles and skill sets in the AI era

Emphasizing the elite nature of communication profession and the need to recognize, practice, and adapt to the skill sets required in the AI era.

[00:59:02] The role of a communicator

Understanding the depth of knowledge needed about a business and its stakeholders.

[01:01:00] Enhancing communication through AI

Using AI to enhance communication by connecting dots and providing additional insights.

[01:05:01] Challenges and hopes for the future

Concerns about disinformation and divisiveness, along with hopes for a better future and the role of AI.

[01:06:55] Looking ahead with optimism

Expressing hope for positive changes through human creativity and invention, and the potential of AI.

In this week’s episode, Dan reunites with an old friend to talk about online and hybrid social media community building and its challenges of the past, present and future. Joining him today is fellow Japan aficionado, super connector, brand expert, event master, and his friend of more than 20 years, Andrew Shuttleworth. He's currently the Head of Business Development, Japan and Asia Pacific for the Singapore-based innovation platform Agorize. Prior to that, Andrew held leadership roles at tech companies in Japan and Singapore and had his own consulting business in Japan focused on connecting customers, vendors, and people (called Customers Vendors People, naturally). He runs a community called Innovators United and chairs the Sales Leaders Peer Group for EGN in Singapore.

Andrew talks in depth about creating, promoting, and regulating online and hybrid social platforms and networks. He reflects on the challenges faced by Net Tokyo, an organization he co-founded with Dan and other super connectors in Tokyo before social media became so ubiquitous. Prepare to be taken on a guided tour of how people connected at a time when social networking was unheard all the way through to when it finally caught on and changed everything. 

This is one episode you don’t want to miss.

In This Episode

• (03:32) Welcoming Andrew Shuttleworth to the Dan Nestle Show.

• (03:49) Talking about Net Tokyo, a community of communities he and Dan started before “The Facebook”.

• (10:51) How the idea of networking was ahead of its time back then.

• (13:49) Andrew’s journey from a lad from Northern England to becoming the accidental business nomad.

• (19:44) Talking about the idea behind connecting people: to create value.

• (25:02) On the move to Singapore and still maintaining ties with Japan.

• (27:18) Andrew's role at Apple and how it aided his goal to connect people.

• (30:50) Being mindful of creating communities without over-commercializing them.

• (36:01) Indicators that show that the community is growing and interacting.

• (38:33) Andrew’s take on current platforms when it comes to community creation.

• (42:51) Different tools for different generations such as Discord and Slack.

• (47:18) How size matters when it comes to building trustful communities. 

• (50:59) Regulate, populate, and evaluate contributions from communities.

• (56:03) On Innovators United being a hybrid community with in-person events.

• (1:03:52) Andrew’s advice to marketers today.

• (1:03:45) Final remarks from Andrew.

Notable Quotes

• “I always had Southeast Asia on my map as kind of a natural next step from Japan, knowing that the economy here is just going to keep growing and growing for decades. There's a lot of similarities to Japan, but there's also a lot to learn and a lot to experience. I mean, one of the reasons I went to Japan was just to have this information in your face every day while you're walking around reading kanji. And the level of challenge in your life is kind of doubled just by being there, especially when you're new and young. And so, I wanted to experience that daily challenge of life again by going to a completely new place.” - Andrew (25:56)

• “When other people start introducing other relevant people to the community and talking about it, that's when you know it's really working. And actually, from the business perspective, the awareness when people come to you and say, ‘Hey, actually I want to hear about your product and service,’ that is really nice because like you say, you're not doing it for business purposes, but there has to be some sort of win-win there.” – Andrew (36:01)

• “We can just continue to build and build communities and participate in communities. And you know, I think that by being community oriented, you've got. Already a kind of an advantage over a lot of other salespeople, marketers, whatever you want to call yourself at any given time. Look, we aren’t old, but we aren’t getting any younger. So, you know, to prepare ourselves for the future as we live longer and longer and longer, understanding community and the effects that has on people's behavior and just the idea of making relationships and connections and understanding that I think is going to be a massive advantage for you.” Dan (1:02:21)

• “My sales team, even though they're in Singapore, are maybe 30 minutes away. But what I've realized is and I think pretty much most people would agree with this, is that there's something totally different about getting together with people in person. I've built relationships, I've hired people. I've mentored people online. But when you get together and you have an in-person conversation, either 1 to 1 or especially in a group, the dynamics and the information exchange transforms. And it's as much as I love technology, you can't replace it, at least not at the moment.” Andrew (57:17)

• “I'm sure marketers are looking at this saying, okay, how do I, how do I work with community? My advice would be, assign a little bit of your budget to communities. Communities don't take a lot to fund. Um, but they do require money, right? You require money for a venue requirement, for some refreshments. And I think businesses can play a good part in enabling communities. But you aren't going to get your ROI next month or you're not going to get your ROI this quarter. So, it's up to the marketers to kind of learn how to justify this investment in communities.” Andrew (1:03:52)

About Andrew Shuttleworth

Andrew Shuttleworth is an expert in building communities. For over two decades, Andrew has been in sales, marketing, project management, and event production, overseeing all aspects of creating, populating, regulating, and promoting a community, whether online, in person, or hybrid. He's currently the head of business development, Japan and Asia Pacific for the innovation platform Agorize, based in Singapore. Prior to that, Andrew has been in leadership roles at tech companies in Asia, did a considerable stint at Apple, and had his own consulting business in Japan focused on connecting customers, vendors, and people. He set up and runs a community called Innovators United and chairs the Sales Leaders Peer Group for EGN in Singapore.

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/

• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle

• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

Andrew Shuttleworth

• Company: https://get.agorize.com/en/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewshuttleworth/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/ashuttleworth

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shuttleworthandrew

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andrewshuttleworth/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@runners.t.v  

• EGN Sales Leaders Peer Group: https://www.egnpeernetwork.com/peergroup-singapore-sales-leaders 

In this episode, Dan connects with marketing veteran, branding pro and official elevator pitch repairman Mike Verret. In Mike’s nearly three-decade career, he’s done everything from client service to product strategy to global brand management at Hasbro. The red thread that connected them all, though, was his unique ability to relate to an audience on their terms – and now, through his own marketing strategy company Verret and Associates, Mike teaches other entrepreneurs how to do the same. 

Today, Dan and Mike discuss how meaningful connection happens, the value of understanding your audience’s perspective of your business, the power of storytelling in selling, and more.

In This Episode

• (02:55) Mike’s background, and the genesis of Verret and Associates
• (11:46) Adapting to cultural differences in business
• (18:00) Mike’s “empathetic trigger” as the secret to his interpersonal communication prowess
• (29:15) “Connection is about getting to a conversation.”
• (37:40) How does connection happen in a meaningful way? 
• (42:57) The plumber example: connecting to a prospect’s need state via storytelling
• (47:35) The power of the “I help” statement
• (50:28) The key to an impactful elevator pitch
• (1:05:15) The value of connecting with the audience from their perspective, not yours
  
  

Notable Quotes

• “What enabled [my success] was my understanding of an audience. And that's what I saw as the red thread that ran through my career. What I was best at was relating an idea to an audience on their terms. And that became exactly how I thought about everything. How do you take what you do – say, as a business – and translate that into something that your audience is going to find the meaning in? And that's what I always looked at.” – Mike (15:18)
• “When you're talking about your business to your audience, the reality is you think a hundred percent about what you do and what you focus on. The audience cares about five percent. I don't care if it's an internal pitch to the C-suite about a new piece of software that's been developed or it's a sales pitch to someone or it's your LinkedIn profile. The challenge is always finding the right 5% to get your audience's attention, keep it, bring them through in the right order and get them to a decision point. It’s really hard to do when you know everything.” – Mike (34:14)

Resources & Links

The Dan Nestle Show

• https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow

Mike Verret 

• https://www.verretandassociates.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-verret/

Mentioned

• “Conversations That Connect” by Brooke Sellas

In this episode, Dan connects with IT project manager-turned-entrepreneur, Chief Connector of the Charleston chapter of The Connective, and CEO of Turtle Bay Payment Solutions, Karena Bell. Dan and Karena discuss how her journey through a male-dominated field led her to understand the significance of shifting your mindset to realize your potential and see potential in others—and how that helped her refine the art of building connections. They dive into the distinction between networking and connecting, how your approach to connections impacts your business and helps you become a better leader, and how true connection can lay the foundation for real success. 

In This Episode

• (2:23) – Karena begins speaking about her journey to becoming a CEO
• (4:15) – Even as an employee, she viewed herself as a business owner
• (5:13) - Discusses how complex situations can become valuable growth opportunities 
• (9:18) – The concept of mindset is introduced 
• (10:31) – The importance of mentors
• (11:58) – Realizing that she had no limits
• (19:35) – Do not bring emotion to the office 
• (31:31) – Destinations can be limiting 
• (40:35) -The difference between networking and connecting 
• (47:00) – The importance of showing interest in others
• (53:00) – Business and relationships

Notable Quotes

• “Good networks yield good people.” (1:25) - Dan
• “I want you to develop a mindset that has no limits, and you get used to asking for forgiveness rather than permission.” (15:35) - Karena 
• “If it's average or mediocre, it’s really boring to me.” (16:38) - Karena
• “There’s a response and a reaction. A reaction is anchored in emotion. A response is anchored in logic.” (20:02) - Karena
• “They say ‘it’s lonely at the top’... The reason it’s lonely at the top is because you don’t have people that you trust around you.” (26:36) - Karena
• “We’re all developers.” (28:33) - Karena
• “It is the journey that gets me excited because what motivates me is, ‘what is your potential?’ Do you know the answer to that question?” (31:34) - Karena
• “My own potential is only limited by my limiting beliefs.” (32:30) - Dan 
• “We’re all like onions. We all have different layers that we allow people to see. (43:50) - Karena
• “There is no one that I cannot find something interesting about to ask a simple question.” (45:50) - Karena
• “The blessings in my life are meant to benefit others.” (55:01) - Karena
• “I believe collaboration is the new currency.” (1:01:10) - Karena
• “Change the word ‘failure’ in your vocabulary to ‘feedback’.” (1:05:56) - Karena

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle / Twitter

Karena Bell

• Karena Bell - LinkedIn
• Karena Bell-Facebook
• Karena Bell-Instagram
• Turtle Bay Payment Solutions

Mentioned: Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck

In this episode, Dan connects with leadership coach, speaker, conflict resolution expert and equestrian expert Pamela Cournoyer to talk about what it takes to become a better version of yourself. Starting with what we can learn from horses, Pamela and Dan dig into the BS - belief systems - that get in our way, how to read people, how we can be more aware of how we show up, and how surviving both a career in law enforcement and cancer gave Pamela unique insight into the human condition. Now as a coach and owner of Powerful & True Leadership Mastery, Pamela uses these insights to help her clients become better leaders and communicators.

In this episode, Dan sits down with communication strategist, creativity and innovation specialist, organizational development trainer, and professional metaphor constructor, Brandon Wetzstein. As founder and Principal of IN8 Create, Brandon brings the magic of LEGO bricks to teams and individuals to help them be better leaders and listeners. He and Dan dig into LEGO Serious Play, design thinking, and the power of visual metaphors - constructed with LEGO bricks, of course - to unblock and unlock potential.

In this episode, Dan digs into the art and science of networking with entrepreneur, author, and master network builder, Jay Allen. As the CEO of The Influence Board, founder of CXO.org, and founder of both the HR100 and the CFO100, Jay has literally made networking his business - and business is thriving. He and Dan discuss the do's and don'ts of networking, they talk about Jay's book, The Law of Two Favors, and they explore the innovative business model for The Influence Board, which proves that building a successful network has nothing to do with numbers and everything to do with service and value.

It's Episode 50! And this week, you're in for a real treat as Dan digs into what makes visionaries tick with speaker, author, vodcaster, leadership strategist, and performance coach Traci Philips. Traci's approach to working with leaders focuses on tapping into their inner voice and the language they use to help them define their vision and reach self-actualization. Her fascinating journey takes us from educator to prison volunteer, and ultimately to her coaching practice, The Innate Coach. Traci is also a supreme connector of people - a quality that comes through in her contagious enthusiasm throughout our conversation.

In this episode, Dan has the great honor of exploring the life and career of PR legend and founder and CEO of Silicon Valley consultancy Redphlag, Gerry Corbett. A past Chair and CEO of the Public Relations Society of America (PRSA), Gerry's career led him to the pinnacle of the PR world - but it wasn't always a straight trajectory. He started out about as far from communications as one might think - as an engineer - and learned that his talent for writing and reading people was far more interesting. He and Dan talk about how those talents propelled him from NASA to Hitachi to his own consultancy and more.

In this episode, Dan strays far from his comfort zone and talks with attorney, entrepreneur, FinTech influencer, and cybersecurity and encryption expert Eric Hess. They dig into Eric's experiences at the crossroads of law, finance, and technology, his successes and failures in marketing his own business, and ultimately how he found his voice and passion with his podcast, The Encrypted Economy. Listen to the end for Eric's take on some uncomfortable trends in data collection, AI, and more.

In this episode, Dan sits down with sales expert, entrepreneur, packaging innovator, and now Chief Connector of the Long Island chapter of The Connective, Brad Levin. You might think the conversation would revolve around packaging, but--spoiler alert--it doesn't. While they do talk about some of Brad's packaging experiences, Brad's journey of self-discovery leads them along a different path. One that focuses more on reinvention, self-awareness, creativity, and more. 

In this episode, Dan gets into purpose, creativity, courage, and with marketing and PR trailblazer, cultural diversity and brand integrator, occasional CMO, and constant spiritual being, Adrienne A. Wallace. As a humanist, communications strategist, and thought leader in her own right, Adrienne has brought "culturally diverse excellence" to the likes of Facebook, Diageo, Time Warner, and more. She and Dan explore her experiences, and we learn why Adrienne embodies empowerment, service, and inspiration. Espavo.

In this episode, Dan sits down with marketer, author, and two-time resigner turned bonafide career transition master Sara J. McElroy.  Sara’s journey looks a lot like the picture of success: academic achievement followed by a steady rise in marketing and ultimately to a CMO role. But in the midst of the Great Resignation, her battles with overwork, toxic workplaces, health crises, and sexual harassment all led to two resignations, a spiritual awakening, personal empowerment, and a mission to help women find their voices and take charge of their careers. Now, as founder and CEO of Raze to Rise, she’s on a mission to “uplift the voices of women from the Great Resignation across diverse walks of life, industries, functions, and career stages” and empower women to “make bold career moves.”  

She and Dan cover a lot of ground as Sara challenges conventional, “rational” career choices and argues that emotions, intuition, and physiology have a massive role to play in making life-changing decisions.  Here’s a taste of what you’ll learn about through their conversation:

• How and when to manage your career. 
• Career management is a mindset and an inside job.
• The most important times in your career before making the leap. 
• Career transitions can be messy and it’s necessary … the Messcessary. 
• The life experience that prompted a life change. 
• The unlikely gift of Shingles. 
• Getting off the grid can often be the best thing. 
• Most professionals need more than a weekend to plot their next moves. 
• The critical role sexual harassment played in her life choices. 
• Seeing the connections of random events.
• Forward-thinking themes that came from the pandemic, especially for women. 
• The value of self-discovery and the role it plays in balancing life. 
• We can have a plan, but until we experience it, we don’t know. 
• Missing the senses of when it’s time to move on. 
• How to learn and leverage body signals. 
• The danger of internal capitalism.

Notable Quotes:

• “The moments of our careers that are most impactful are the ones that are coming in the in-between, not the big moment of turning in the resignation and walking out the door.” (4:26), Sara.
• “I just had the idea that if I just follow the playbook, that perfect life playbook where you climb the ladder and chase the fancier titles and fatter paychecks, and everything will work out.” – (9:01), Sara.
• “I went off to Peru and began reconnecting with the parts of me that weren’t just lost over the last couple of years and even childhood.” – (13:01), Sara.
• “The lather, rinse, repeat of our current lifestyle keeps us really stuck.” – (14:40), Sara. 
• “Valedictorians by in large don’t become leaders.” – (19:44), Dan. 
• “Sexual harassment is not a style.” – (25:22), Sara.
• “I felt like I could not be the only woman who was getting mired in the spin cycle of being burnout, overwhelm, toxic culture.” – (32:20), Sara.
• “Designing a fulfilling career is an inside job.” (34:27), Sara. 
• “The expression listen to your gut is more than just a metaphor.” – (36:35), Dan. 
• “Our bodies are hardwired for experience of joy and bliss.” – (42:55), Sara. 
• “We are built to move through all of the things we’re facing in life through our senses.” – (45:19), Sara. 
• “In a professional world, you’re kind of like a brain, floating around in an apparatus that allows you to execute what you need to do.” – (50:40), Sara.
• “We have been taught to ignore the signs that things are not working for us.” – (51:27), Sara.
• “Disease is the last attempt to get our attention when we’re doing things that are not good for us.”- (51:27), Sara. 
• “We have the ability to feel into what we think is good.” – (54:44), Sara. 
• “It’s also important to meditate.” (1:01:08), Sara.
• “When consequences are larger and bigger and weighs on you, you really need to tune in and listen.” – (1:07:00), Dan.
• “Sometimes your employer is unable to give you what you need to grow.” – (1:10:00), Dan.

About Dan Nestle 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

About Sara McElroy

• Sara McElroy - Instagram
• Sara McElroy - Linkedin
• Raze to Rise – Website
  

The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:

00:00:00 - Introduction

00:02:01 - Sarah's Career Journey and the Importance of the In-Between Moments

00:07:52 - Sarah's First Resignation and the Need for a Reset

00:12:47 - The Great Resignation and Finding Resilience

00:15:20 - The Impact of Divorce and Mental Health Issues,

00:18:07 - The Pressure of Being a Valedictorian,

00:22:51 - The Lack of a Life Roadmap,

00:25:26 - Resignation and Self-Reflection,

00:28:45 - The Journey of Personal Growth,

00:30:49 - The Journey Begins,

00:33:27 - The Power of Women's Stories,

00:35:17 - Designing a Fulfilling Career,

00:39:37 - The Unforeseen Path,

00:43:35 - The Role of Physiology,

00:47:29 - The Importance of Sensory Reactions,

00:49:10 - The Impact of Lack of Sensory Information,

00:50:59 - Ignoring Emotional and Physical Signs,

00:53:30 - Recognizing Signals and Taking Action,

00:58:15 - Using Visualization and Body Reactions,

01:02:51 - The Impact of a Job on Relationships,

01:03:30 - Measuring Readiness to Leave a Job,

01:04:58 - Balancing Rationality and Emotion in Career Decisions,

01:06:07 - Expanding and Growing Outside of Work,

01:10:30 - The Individualized Nature of Career Paths,

01:18:36 - The Impact of Self-Objectification and Internalized Capitalism,

01:19:06 - The Historical Origins of Work Culture,

01:20:25 - Challenges for Women in the Business World,

01:21:23 - Overcoming Biases and Empowering Women,

01:23:12 - Keeping an Open Mind and Trusting Yourself

Timestamped summary of this episode (also presented as generated by Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show 
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast episode and his guest, Sarah McElroy, who is a high-performing chief marketing officer turned CEO and career transition expert. They discuss the importance of managing one's career and the power of the in-between moments in career transitions.

00:02:01 - Sarah's Career Journey and the Importance of the In-Between Moments
Sarah McElroy shares her personal career journey, including a difficult divorce, job loss, and health issues. She emphasizes the significance of the in-between moments in one's career and how they can shape the direction and decisions for the future.

00:07:52 - Sarah's First Resignation and the Need for a Reset
Sarah talks about her first resignation and how it came after experiencing physical and mental health issues due to overworking. She decided to take a pause and went on a wellness retreat in Peru to reconnect with herself. This reset led her to make significant changes in her career and personal life.

00:12:47 - The Great Resignation and Finding Resilience
Sarah discusses the concept of the Great Resignation and how it has impacted many people's career decisions. She emphasizes the importance of finding resilience during challenging times and shares her own experience of quitting her job after being diagnosed with shingles. This decision allowed her to prioritize her well-being and seek a more fulfilling career path.

00:15:20 - The Impact of Divorce and Mental Health Issues,
Sara discusses how her divorce, mental health issues, and childhood trauma affected her. She shares her hospitalization and estrangement from her family, leading to feelings of worthlessness and a need to prove her value.

00:18:07 - The Pressure of Being a Valedictorian,
Sara and Dan discuss how being valedictorian can create pressure and expectations. They explore the idea that valedictorians often become followers rather than leaders, as they excel at working within a structured system.

00:22:51 - The Lack of a Life Roadmap,
Sara and Dan reflect on how the traditional notion of a life roadmap no longer applies in today's ever-changing world. They discuss the challenges faced by recent generations in navigating their careers and finding their paths.

00:25:26 - Resignation and Self-Reflection,
Sara shares her experience of resigning from her second job due to sexual harassment and feeling undervalued. She discusses how these experiences pushed her to leave corporate life and become an entrepreneur. She also recognizes her own role in choosing these environments and the need for self-reflection and healing.

00:28:45 - The Journey of Personal Growth,
Sara and Dan emphasize the value of personal growth and therapy in understanding oneself and making better choices. They discuss the importance of embracing the past and learning from experiences to shape a fulfilling career and life.

00:30:49 - The Journey Begins,
Sara reflects on her decision to leave a terrible job and the inspiration it sparked to help other women facing burnout and toxic cultures. She starts a journalism project called Raised to Rise to capture the stories and wisdom of women experiencing the great resignation.

00:33:27 - The Power of Women's Stories,
Sara realizes the universality of women's experiences during the great resignation and decides to turn Raised to Rise into a book. She wants to share the raw, messy, and inspiring stories of women to create a playbook for designing a fulfilling career.

00:35:17 - Designing a Fulfilling Career,
Sara believes that designing a fulfilling career is an inside job. Rather than solely relying on external factors like job title and salary, she emphasizes the importance of self-discovery, intuition, and listening to our physiology to find greater fulfillment in our work.

00:39:37 - The Unforeseen Path,
Sara shares how her book took an unexpected turn, allowing her to incorporate more of the ups and downs and unexpected twists of her own journey. She believes that embracing the unexpected and staying true to oneself is essential when navigating career transitions.

00:43:35 - The Role of Physiology,
Sara explores the role of physiology in decision-making and career choices. She discusses the body's response to emotions and the importance of listening to our gut and heart, which are often overlooked in favor of the rational brain. Our bodies have evolved to seek joy and fulfillment, making

00:47:29 - The Importance of Sensory Reactions,
Sarah discusses how sensory reactions play a role in our conversations and decision-making. She mentions that although we may not have all of our senses when communicating virtually, we can still pick up on cues and signals through what we hear and see.

00:49:10 - The Impact of Lack of Sensory Information,
Sarah acknowledges that the lack of sensory information in virtual communication may affect our ability to recognize when it's time to make a change. She emphasizes the importance of paying attention to our emotions, body, and intuition to determine if something is not working for us.

00:50:59 - Ignoring Emotional and Physical Signs,
Sarah points out that we have been trained to leave our emotions and bodies at the door in the professional world. She believes that ignoring these signs can lead to disease and that we should listen to our emotions, body, and intuition for cues about what is and isn't working for us.

00:53:30 - Recognizing Signals and Taking Action,
Sarah shares her personal experiences of feeling a "scary buzz" and a mixture of anxiety and excitement when she knows she needs to take action. She encourages listeners to pay attention to their own body's signals and use them as a guide for making decisions.

00:58:15 - Using Visualization and Body Reactions,
Sarah suggests a practice of visualizing oneself in different situations and paying attention to the body's reactions. By connecting visualization to our bodies, we can determine what

01:02:51 - The Impact of a Job on Relationships,
Sara reflects on how her job affected her relationships in Australia and acknowledges that some of those relationships may not have been good for her in the first place.

01:03:30 - Measuring Readiness to Leave a Job,
Sara discusses her quit readiness quiz, which helps individuals assess their readiness to leave a job. Factors such as stability in other aspects of life, length of dissatisfaction, comfort with uncertainty, and financial stability are considered.

01:04:58 - Balancing Rationality and Emotion in Career Decisions,
Sara emphasizes the importance of not acting blindly on emotions when making career decisions. She suggests considering both rational and emotional factors, and taking a balanced approach that includes planning and thoughtful decision-making.

01:06:07 - Expanding and Growing Outside of Work,
Dan and Sara discuss the importance of personal growth and expansion, both within and outside of work. They highlight the need to listen to the signals of growth, such as feeling stuck or the desire to stretch and evolve, and finding opportunities to fulfill that growth.

01:10:30 - The Individualized Nature of Career Paths,
Sara emphasizes that there is no one-size-fits-all playbook for career decisions. Each person's journey is unique, and it's important to explore different paths and opportunities for growth, even if they may not directly align with one's current career. The focus is on individualized fulfillment and finding joy and meaning in various aspects of life.

01:18:36 - The Impact of Self-Objectification and Internalized Capitalism,
The guest discusses the harmful effects of self-objectification and internalized capitalism on individuals. She emphasizes how these societal pressures lead people to believe that their worth is tied to productivity and achieving success in their careers.

01:19:06 - The Historical Origins of Work Culture,
The conversation delves into the historical roots of work culture, tracing it back to the Industrial Revolution when humans were seen as resources to be valued based on their economic output. This mindset still persists and influences how we view work and ourselves today.

01:20:25 - Challenges for Women in the Business World,
The guest acknowledges that women face additional challenges in the business world, such as being judged based on their marital status and motherhood. Despite progress, biases and stereotypes still persist, making it important to address these issues for future generations.

01:21:23 - Overcoming Biases and Empowering Women,
The guest expresses her desire to empower her daughters and future generations of women by challenging societal biases and stereotypes. She metaphorically refers to carrying a "flamethrower" to burn down these biases and create a more equal and equitable society.

01:23:12 - Keeping an Open Mind and Trusting Yourself,
The guest encourages listeners to approach unconventional ideas with an open mind, acknowledging that scientific advancements have often debunked previously perceived "mystical" beliefs. She emphasizes the importance of curiosity, self-discovery

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

In this episode, Dan connects with retired Navy officer, legendary communicator, speaker, leadership strategist, and coach David Albritton. The founder and CEO of Nineteen88 Strategies, David cut his PR and communications chops at the Pentagon and followed a career track that led to his role as Chief Communications Officer at Exelis. That would have been the career-high mark for most communicators, but not for David. From the pinnacle of the comms world, he made that rare, perhaps unique, jump to running an entire enterprise, ultimately becoming the President of General Motors Defense. Through it all, he saw the value of coaching and mentoring in his life and decided to dedicate his third - and current - career to helping others realize the same. 

How did he (and how does he) do it? How do you make the journey from being the PR guy to running a multi-billion-dollar business? Maybe it’s how he fostered a learning mindset. Perhaps it’s how he recognized when it’s important to embrace change. Or it could be that a "Learn-or-Die" mantra is a prerequisite for success. He and Dan explore these and many more lessons from David’s career to find some answers. 

Listen in and learn …

• Why communications professionals need to develop business acumen
• The dynamic nature of communications professionals’ role and the significance of continuous learning and growth. 
• The value of mentorship from a personal and professional perspective.
• The difference between a small “m” mentor and a large “M” mentor.
• How the universe recognizes your mentoring efforts and will reward you accordingly.
• The role of your worst day and how it can be used to push you forward. 
• The importance of respecting the expertise of others. 
• The Hole in Your Swing Philosophy and why it’s important to address it.
• Why leaders understand the value of surrounding themselves with smart people. 
• That sometimes people can see the leader in you before you can see the leader in yourself. 
• Coaching is a safe place and there is a difference between coaching and mentoring. 
• The game-changing aspects of coaching on a personal and corporate level. 
• Some of the amazing resources David used to fuel his growth including, “Business Acumen for Strategic Communicators” by Ron Culp and Matthew W. Ragas. 

Notable Quotes:

• “There have been so many people who have mentored me and didn’t even know it.” (4:56) – David
• “I’m truly one that believes you can get through this life journey alone.” – (5:43) – David
• “Believing in others and their ability to help you and your ability to help them is what makes us human.” – (7:30)
• “There’s a whole lot of goodness in this country that we don’t get to see through the media all the time.” (10:06) – David
• “What is the story of David Albritton?” – (12:55) – Dan
• “You can’t be a good leader until you’ve learned how to be a good follower.” – (14:33) – David
• “A soldier is trained to carry a rifle to fight wars and all those types of things. They’re not trained to move a family with a baby that needs diapers and blankets.” – (34:14) – David
• “I never believed that by myself I was smart enough to do anything.” – (39:48) – David
• “PR isn’t an exact science.” – (40:23) – David
• “I realized that I couldn’t just be a communications person. I had to become more of a business partner.” – (40:54) – David
• “Just because you have title does not mean you know.” – (44:24) – David
• “Communications gives us (communicators) license to try and learn everything.” (47:31) -Dan
• “Then I had a huge left hook thrown at me that knocked me on my butt.” – (56:00) – David
• “I realized that if I could become a coach and get paid to be a coach, I never have to retire.” – (1:00:22) – David
• “We all deal with change differently.” – (1:03:40) – David
• “The job of a coach is to look into your future.” – (1:08:22) – David
• “It’s not so much about who you know but who knows you.” (1:13:07) – David
• “Go into every situation as prepared as you can be.” (1:14:22) – David
• “Ask smart questions to people when you don’t know things.” – (1:18:32) – David
• “You have to be known because you are contributing.” – (1:20:27) – Dan
• “People will stay with you if they feel like they have the opportunity to grow.” – (1:26:39) -David

About David J. Albritton, ACC

David Albritton, Founder and CEO of Nineteen88 Strategies, is an accomplished ICF-certified executive coach and business leader with over 30 years of diverse leadership experience spanning corporate, nonprofit, and military sectors. From his unique transition as a Chief Communications Officer to a business division chief executive of a Fortune 25 company, to his current role on the board of NASDAQ-listed Embecta Corp., Albritton exemplifies career versatility. His extensive roles, including President at General Motors Defense and VP Communications roles at Amazon Web Services, Exelis, ITT Defense, and United Way of America, reflect his expertise. As a seasoned executive coach, Albritton employs a holistic and authentic coaching framework to empower high-performing executives. His passion lies in enhancing leadership presence, personal branding, and emotional intelligence among others. He is also a Service-Disabled Veteran with degrees from the U.S. Naval Academy, Naval Postgraduate School, and executive education from top universities including Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton.

• Nineteen88 Strategies
• David Albritton | Linkedin
• David Albritton - Instagram 
• David Albritton - Twitter
• Four Forces Executive Group

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle on Twitter

Timestamped Summary

• Introduction to today’s guest. 0:00
• David’s introduction. 1:49
• Putting positivity out into the universe. 6:22
• How did you get to the mindset you have? 11:49
• The mindset of a public relations professional. 17:57
• Learning to be a media communicator. 25:09
• Rising through the ranks of the military. 29:38
• Dealing with the perceptions of the military. 37:22
• The common theme of leaders who are not the smartest. 44:48
• Becoming a CCO at Exelis. 48:52
• The importance of having the right talent. 53:09
• Understanding your why and your purpose. 57:40
• Being directive as a mentor. 1:02:06
• Coaching is about helping people. 1:07:04
• The importance of being prepared for every meeting. 1:11:49
• The crux of it all. 1:18:56
• David’s advice for leaders. 1:23:48
• David’s work with veterans and charitable orgs. 1:27:52

*Notes were created by humans, with some help from Capsho and Otter.ai. 

For this very special milestone, the 100th episode of The Dan Nestle Show,  Dan has the great honor to chat with Ruth Hartt, a classically trained opera singer and music educator, now Chief of Staff at the Clayton Christensen Institute (a think tank dedicated to improving the world through Disruptive Innovation) and founder of Culture For Hire, a platform she uses to help arts organizations rethink their purpose and reinvent themselves by understanding their customers.

Drawing examples from the world of music and art, we learn how Ruth is applying Jobs to Be Done theory to become a true customer champion and turn arts marketing on its head. You'll find yourself nodding along with Ruth as she takes us through stories of marketing malpractice, and how a few brave innovators and Jobs to be Done approaches are helping to breathe life into a dying industry.

In This Episode

• (01:59) Dan welcomes Ruth to Dan Nestle show.

• (03:49) On meeting Ruth as part of the uprising at an anti-conference.

• (05:40) Ruth journey as a musician and educator to joining the Clayton Institute.

• (06:18) Talking about harassment and pregnancy discrimination.

• (09:50) Absorbing, learning, reading, and listening to knowledge coming her way.

• (16:01) Explaining Job to Be Done and why people buy.

• (26:33) On being a relevant strategist and customer champion.

• (38:40) Discussing the epidemic of loneliness and how to tackle it.

• (40:17) Dan elaborates on the three-box solution.

• (52:15) Job To be Done going beyond just a marketing solution.

• (54:58) How can people discover classical music and the arts today.

• (59:53) What Dan discovered about classical music.

• (1:03:18) How reaction videos can create an impact.

• (1:05:33) Ruth shares a book with the audience.

Notable Quotes

• “All of a sudden, I am thinking, we have got a marketing problem in the arts world. Because we are not considering the customer at all. In fact, traditional arts marketing ignores the customer, and so does the theory change the game for marketers in the arts world and I sort of set out to figure out what that looks like.” – Ruth (11:33)

• “We need to understand the functional need, the emotional context, and the social context in their life that causes them to buy. Sort of in a nutshell, people buy not because of who they are but because of who they want to become. Or because of what they want their life to become or their world to become.  The way Clayton Christensen always puts it is they say, people hire things to help them make progress on a circumstance in their life.” – Ruth (16:39)

• “There is the value chain architecture; how the business is run and how value gets delivered. There is the value of proposition, and then there is the customer. Those 3 elements if you change any one of those, it’s a non-linear innovation. And that a way you can sort of validate whether or not what you are doing is innovative.” – Dan (42:09)

• “The forces of progress. There are forces that are in someone’s circumstance that are pushing him towards a solution. There is a solution that has great things about that is pulling them towards it. But then there are these habits of the past and anxieties about the new solution that are forcing them away and unless the pull towards the new solution outweighs the anxieties and the habits of the past, you are not going to sell whatever it is you are trying to sell.” – Ruth (43:55)

• “How do you get people to buy in, right? Some of it is creating this relevant doorway; relevant meaning something that is familiar to them. There are so many Queen fans out there. And for them to see a concert advertised as Queen with full orchestra, that’s a draw! I would be interested in that. I am a Queen fan.” – Ruth (1:01:39)

About Ruth Hartt

Ruth Hartt is a classically trained opera singer and music educator. She spent the last 5 years at the Clayton Christensen Institute for disruptive innovation, where she has been immersed in research and theories of one of the world's legendary business thinkers, learning the power of Jobs to be Done and customer-centricity. Now she has combined her experience in the arts with her expertise in business strategy and launched Culture For Hire, where she helps arts organizations to rethink their purpose and reinvent themselves by understanding their customers and creating relevance for their communities. 

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/

• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle

• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

Ruth Hartt

• Website: https://www.cultureforhire.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruth-hartt/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/ruth_hartt

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cultureforhire

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cultureforhire/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt6qshnsYS1UHPa7H8DuTlA

Mentions

• Book: https://www.priyaparker.com/book-art-of-gathering

In this episode, Dan digs deep into PR with strategic communicator, writer, speaker, and media expert Janet Falk, owner of Falk Communications and Research. With a career spanning from academia to investment banking and ultimately to public relations, Janet lays out some practical ways PR professionals can excel in their field. She and Dan discuss the evolution of the profession, how to think like a reporter, how to be quotable, and a range of other valuable topics for communications pros and fans alike.

In this episode, Dan connects with award-winning marketer, public speaker and chair of the American Marketing Association’s ethics committee, Lisa Bowman. In 2020, Lisa’s tenure as United Way’s Chief Marketing Officer ended after she endured years of retaliation for reporting a fellow executive for sexual harassment. Her bestselling memoir, “Harasshole: A Cautionary Tale of My Time at ‘America’s Favorite Charity,’” chronicles her experience. 

Today, Dan and Lisa talk about the marketing challenges she faced as CMO at United Way, how the company repeatedly chose to shelter the “harasshole” despite complaints from multiple women, the retaliation she experienced for reporting him, and her path forward as an advocate and public speaker. And of course they also talk about marketing, leadership, ethics, purpose, and more. 

In This Episode

• (04:11) Lisa’s background, and the path that led her to (and from) “America’s favorite charity,” United Way
• (10:40) What drove Lisa to accept the job offer “that fell out of the sky” 
• (13:51) The scope of Lisa’s role as United Way’s de facto CMO 
• (18:23) The massive marketing challenge of building back brand equity 
• (35:33) The “harasshole” 
• (40:05) “From minute one, he began harassing me.” 
• (45:52) What does harassment really mean? 
• (52:11) Retaliation 
• (58:49) “I don’t need you anymore” – Lisa’s firing 
• (1:08:45) The aftermath 
• (1:13:30) Lisa’s path forward

Notable Quotes

• “What does this mean? I've just had two men tell me that I'm intimidating. And yet I don't have power over either of these men. One is my boss. One is a candidate I'm interviewing. Like, like what is intimidating about me? I think there was something about me that made them uncomfortable. But then you question and go, ‘Is that my problem? Or is that their problem?’ And I've come to the conclusion – it's their problem. Not mine.” – Lisa (40:00)

• “I went back to HR this time on behalf of myself. And from that minute, I had a target on my back. A few weeks later in a conversation with my boss, the CEO, the harasser's name came up in a business context. And I said, you know, ‘Are you aware of the fact that I've had to go to HR about him twice in the past couple weeks?’ And his response was, ‘Yeah, I heard about that. You know, you just need to learn to get along with him.’” – Lisa (49:37)
• “There are thousands of women that deal with this every single day. If it could happen to me as a C-level female, you know, what happens at lower levels? You know, what happens to women that don't know what to do, don't know how to fight back? There were things that I didn't know that I learned in the process. I feel an obligation to pay it forward and just share my experience.” – Lisa (1:14:57)

In this episode, Dan connects with video producer, marketer, entrepreneur, and all-around creative soul Henry Schneider. Henry runs his own video production outfit, Open Window Production, and it turns out it's an apt name: by following the metaphorical windows that have opened to him, he's built a solid client base and has developed his own virtual event platform, The Virtual Event Center. He's a constant learner, and he and Dan talk about how that has positioned him at the intersection of creativity, business, and community - a formidable combination that has helped him adapt to, and lead, change.

In this episode, Dan has a conversation about creating conversations (and much more) with the CEO and Founder of Messenger Funnels and Conversational Educator at Bot Academy, the indomitable Mary Kathryn "MK" Johnson. MK and Dan get a little bit geeky about marketing, conversions, and yes, conversations. Because as MK will tell you, marketing is about conversations - but some conversations can be automated. Learn how to properly harness chatbots and other ways to cause marketing mischief in this fun, and funny, conversation.

How do FBI hostage negotiation tactics link to public relations and corporate crisis management? And how can understanding both help you prove your value to your stakeholders and audiences? 

Demonstrating value is a familiar hurdle for communicators, especially when navigating the turbulent waters of a crisis. Effective crisis communication provides a crucial lifeline that can make or break a company's reputation.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with two incredible guests: PR agency CEO, crisis counselor, and advisor to at least one US president, Adele Gambardella, and retired FBI agent, hostage negotiator, and spy chaser, Chip Massey. Now, as co-founders of The Convincing Company,  they help their clients navigate crises and provide the training they need to prepare for the challenges ahead. With Dan, they dive deep into the art and science of crisis communication and persuasion and how a methodical approach to analyzing conversations - Forensic Listening - may be the most powerful skill a communicator should have. You'll discover the power of forensic listening, the subtlety of non-verbal cues, and the strategic use of targeted validation to build trust and rapport and get to the core of hidden narratives that drive crisis response.

Adele and Chip also discuss groundbreaking topics like the role of AI in communication analysis, the persuasive power of predictive statements, and why companies need to take bold stances on controversial issues. Drawing from their book Convince Me, they highlight the importance of deep listening and emotional control in mastering effective communication and negotiation.

Don't miss out on these practical tips that are ready to be implemented, designed to enhance your crisis communication strategies and empower you to confidently demonstrate your value to stakeholders.

Listen in and hear about...

• The evolving role of crisis communication in handling modern threats like misinformation and AI misuse.
• The formation and impact of the Convincing Company, which integrates PR strategies and crisis negotiation.
• The concept of forensic listening and its application in understanding and addressing communication nuances.
• The importance of adapting communication strategies to handle high-stress situations effectively.
• Strategies for corporate communicators to prepare for and respond to contentious societal issues, especially in politically charged climates.
• The distinction between convincing and negotiating, emphasizing the importance of aligning values and visions for effective communication outcomes.

Notable Quotes

On the Importance of Crisis Communication:
"When there's trouble, communicators roll up their sleeves and get to work. We turn trouble around and send it away. Nobody questions our value then."
— Dan Nestle [00:01:30 → 00:01:40]

On the Value of Forensic Listening:
"Forensic listening is the art and science of analyzing a conversation after it's happened. Words leave clues."
— Chip Massey [00:16:30 → 00:16:40]

On the Importance of Crisis Training:
"Crisis management is a muscle. It's one of those things that, like, I love it because I think really fast and on my feet... It's a muscle, though."
— Adele Gambardella [00:52:44 → 00:53:00]

On Convincing vs. Negotiating:
"As a hostage negotiator, I never negotiated with anybody. I was actually convincing that person to value what I valued."
— Chip Massey [01:06:00 → 01:06:10]

On the Importance of Not Starting with Your Strongest Point:
"Never start with your strongest point first, because if you do that, all you do is make everybody in the room dig their heels in."
— Adele Gambardella [01:10:45 → 01:11:00]

On Deep Listening:
"Deep listening... our own stress improves when we're really listening and trying to help somebody else and we can come up with better solutions."
— Chip Massey [01:11:45 → 01:12:00]

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter (@dsnestle)

Adele Gambardella and Chip Massey

• Adele Gambardella | LinkedIn
• Chip Massey | LinkedIn
• The Convincing Company | Instagram (@convincingco)
• The Convincing Company | Website

Mentioned

• Book: Convince Me: High-Stakes Negotiation Tactics to Get Results in Any Business Situation

Timestamped summary for this episode (as generated by ChatGPT)

Introduction of Guests (00:01:07)

Introduction of Adele Gambardella and Chip Massey, their backgrounds, and their collaboration in crisis communications.

Formation of The Convincing Company (00:02:11)

Adele and Chip explain how they met, their complementary skill sets, and the formation of The Convincing Company.

Adele's Burnout and Meeting Chip (00:09:28)

Adele's experience with burnout, meeting Chip, and the realization of their complementary expertise. 

Forensic Listening (00:16:40)

Chip explains the concept of forensic listening and its importance in understanding emotions and themes in conversations for effective communication.

Understanding the Meeting (00:21:37)

Interpreting underlying messages in a meeting, identifying emotions, and linking them with the topic.

Body Positioning (00:22:33)

Understanding the significance of body positioning in communication, its impact on energy and value.

Voice Analysis (00:23:42)

Analyzing pitch, tone, and cadence in communication, and its importance in understanding emotions and messages.

Forensic Listening Story (00:27:13)

A real-life example illustrating the importance of observing body positioning and non-verbal cues in communication.

Applying Forensic Listening (00:35:50)

Understanding the application of forensic listening in different scenarios, including crisis situations and meetings.

Validation and Trust (00:39:19)

The importance of validation in corporate communication, building trust, and influencing positive outcomes.

The fortune teller's impact (00:41:38)

Discussion on the convincing nature of fortune tellers and a personal experience with a fortune teller in a high school class.

Predictive statements in convincing (00:43:28)

Exploration of how predictive statements are used to convince and manipulate, with an example of a statement made to the host.

The power of open questions (00:45:00)

The effectiveness of open questions in conversations and negotiations, and the different responses they can elicit.

Predictive statements in interviews (00:46:52)

The use of predictive statements in hostage negotiations and interviews to encourage conversation and elicit information.

Emotion in crisis response (00:49:51)

The role of emotion in crisis response and the importance of managing fear as a motivator in difficult situations.

Crisis management as a skill (00:53:24)

The discussion of crisis management as a skill that needs to be continuously practiced and developed, with a workshop example.

Challenges in crisis communication (00:55:15)

The challenges faced in crisis communication, including conflicting advice from legal and the importance of countering instincts.

Understanding unstated narratives (00:57:17)

The significance of understanding unstated narratives and how it can provide an advantage in communication and negotiation.

Future of crisis communication (01:00:02)

Anticipation of companies taking stances on controversial issues and the need for communicators to identify core issues and boundaries.

The duty to respond (01:03:20)

Discussion about the duty of companies to respond to relevant issues that align with their core values.

Training for emotional control (01:04:07)

Importance of training for emotional control and scenario planning in heightened and polarizing times.

High-level convincing (01:06:40)

Exploration of convincing as a higher level negotiation strategy, focusing on future and motivation.

Social media presence (01:10:02)

Mention of the convincing company's social media presence and content strategy.

Effective communication strategy (01:10:44)

Insight on the importance of not starting with the strongest point first in communication strategies.

Deep listening (01:11:46)

The benefits of deep listening for stress reduction and creativity.

(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)

In this episode, Dan connects with Wall Street Journal bestselling author Steven Mark Kahan to discuss his latest book, High-Velocity Digital Marketing. An all-around digital marketing legend, during his career as CMO of several Silicon Valley startups, Steve helped engineer seven successful exits that generated an astounding $5 billion in shareholder value. He and Dan talk about how he managed to make it all happen - and it turns out, it’s all about having the right plan. 

Of course, the right plan is very, very thorough. Luckily, Steve (and his book) deliver exactly that. Over the course of their discussion, Dan and Steve take a deep dive into the elements of marketing, the importance of content, and just how critical it is to identify your audience correctly and speak to them in a way that resonates. 

Listen in and...

• Discover powerful digital marketing techniques to skyrocket your online presence.
• Uncover the significance of grasping buyer personas for targeted campaigns.
• Explore the crucial role of consistent content creation in engaging customers.
• Learn the importance of data-driven marketing and evaluating success.
• Gain insights on choosing the best partners and agencies to boost your marketing efforts.

Notable Quotes:

• “I found that the traditional path from school to climbing the corporate ladder at least for me, could not only be high-risk for my career, it could almost feel like a death trap.” – (2:59) - Steve
• “I asked myself a really important question and that question was, how can I earn a great living doing what I love?” – (4:14) – Steve
• “I’ve learned how to spot a startup that has a good chance for success versus one that doesn’t.” – (6:47) – Steve
• ”I’m never concerned when I see that there’s big competition in the market. I’m always concerned when I see that there’s next to no competition in the market.” – (9:26) – Steve
• “You want to go to work everyday with a passion for the products the company creates as well as your role in creating it.” – (9:56) – Steve
• “I wouldn’t want to take a job if I didn’t align with the values of the company.” – (11:33) – Dan
• “You don’t often lose business to a competitor as much as you lose it to the status quo.” – (25:33) - Steve
• “Never assume that the benefits a customer expresses, equates to impact.” – (31:28) – Steve
• “So many organizations don’t train their sales or their partners on every single piece of content that they have.” - (42:54) – Steve
• “You need to turn your website into a lead magnet.” – (54:40) – Steve
• “If you get that content right and that is a big chunk of the battle.” – (1:11:00) – Steve 

Key Moments:

00:00:00 - Introduction,

00:05:05 - Choosing a Startup,

00:12:33 - Importance of Stock Options,

00:17:23 - Digital Marketing Strategies,

00:28:50 - Importance of Agility,

00:15:57 - Lessons from a Failed Startup,

00:18:05 - Evaluating Startup Concepts,

00:22:30 - Understanding the Customer, 

00:25:43 - Building Strong Value Propositions,

00:29:24 - Understanding Benefits vs. Impacts,

00:33:22 - Cybersecurity and Content Creation,

00:35:55 - Sincerity and Content Value,

00:45:03 - Content Stories and Sales Velocity,

00:48:12 - Managing Multifunctional Disarray,

00:51:37 - Importance of Metrics,

00:52:09 - The Martech Stack and Metrics,

00:54:08 - Practical Tips for Improving Lead Conversion Rates,

00:57:53 - The Importance of SEO and Google,

01:04:24 - Agency Selection and Scoring,

01:08:38 - Building Great Content,

01:10:56 - The Importance of Getting Content Right,

01:11:29 - The Future of Marketing,

01:14:16 - Recommendation for High-Velocity Digital Marketing, 

About Steve Kahan

Bestselling author Steven Mark Kahan has a formidable track record, successfully navigating seven startups to acquisition or IPO, amassing a total value exceeding $5 billion. A powerhouse in the world of startups, Steve is revered for his innovative digital marketing strategies that resulted in rapid revenue growth, market expansion, and robust returns for shareholders. In his most recent stint as CMO and Chief of Staff at Thycotic (now Delinea), he propelled the company to a remarkable $1.4B exit. His impact extends to other ventures like KnowledgeWare, PentaSafe, Postini, Quest Software, and The Planet. A past board member of Target Hunger, Steve channels his passion into philanthropic pursuits. 

• Steven Mark Kahan on LinkedIn
• Steve Kahan on Instagram
• Steve Kahan on Facebook
• Learn all about High-Velocity Digital Marketing - Be a Startup Superstar
• High-Velocity Digital Marketing: Silicon Valley Secrets to Create Breakthrough Revenue in Record Time on Amazon.com

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter

Timestamped summary of this episode (Generated by Capsho - and presented here unedited)

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

Dan Nestle welcomes Steve Kahan, former CMO of cybersecurity firm, Thycotic and author of "High Velocity Digital Marketing" to discuss his journey in the startup world and important factors to consider before choosing a startup.

00:05:05 - Choosing a Startup, 

Kahan shares four important attributes to look for when choosing a startup: quality people who share your values, a concept that fills a big market need, a great product you can get behind, and the startup being well-funded.

00:12:33 - Importance of Stock Options, 

Kahan explains how stock options can be a game-changer for those looking to separate themselves financially. Working for a successful startup and seeing the value of those stock options grow can lead to significant financial gain.

00:17:23 - Digital Marketing Strategies, 

Kahan discusses the importance of digital marketing strategies in building a successful startup, noting that they can be a cost-effective way to reach a large target audience. He breaks down some key strategies outlined in his book, "High Velocity Digital Marketing."

00:28:50 - Importance of Agility, 

Kahan emphasizes the importance of agility in the startup world, noting that companies need to be able to pivot quickly and adapt to changing circumstances. He cites examples from his own experience helping startups navigate unexpected challenges.

00:15:57 - Lessons from a Failed Startup, 

Steve shares his experience working for a startup in Japan that lacked differentiation in the market and eventually failed. He discusses the importance of identifying a unique product and positioning it effectively to stand out from competitors.

00:18:05 - Evaluating Startup Concepts, 

Steve and Dan discuss evaluating startup concepts and identifying a must-solve problem for a specific audience. Steve shares his experience at Psychotic, where understanding the customer and crafting value propositions based on their needs led to significant growth and success.

00:22:30 - Understanding the Customer, 

Steve emphasizes the importance of understanding the full context of the ideal target buyer's world and paying attention to their specific language. He shares his process of asking questions to customers and crafting value propositions that address the benefits and impacts that buyers want to make on their company.

00:25:43 - Building Strong Value Propositions, 

Steve discusses the mistake many organizations make in building value propositions that align well with what they do, rather than what the seller cares about. He emphasizes the importance of crafting value propositions based on a full understanding of customers that address their specific needs and challenges.

00:29:24 - Understanding Benefits vs. Impacts, 

Steve differentiates between benefits and impacts, with impacts being closer to the meaning that customers want to achieve in their lives. He emphasizes the importance of addressing both benefits and impacts in crafting value propositions that resonate with customers.

00:33:22 - Cybersecurity and Content Creation, 

Steve Kahan discusses how weak or stolen privileged passwords are responsible for 80% of cyberattacks, and how his company created content stories to educate and provide value to their customers. He emphasizes the importance of tailoring content to the buyer's journey and creating incredible content that engages the buyer at every stage of the funnel.

00:35:55 - Sincerity and Content Value, 

Kahan explains how being sincere and providing real value in content creation is crucial for engaging potential buyers. He shares examples of his company's free tools and risk assessments, which offered real value to the target market and helped to accelerate revenue growth at reasonable costs.

00:45:03 - Content Stories and Sales Velocity, 

Kahan emphasizes the importance of content stories that tie together and support all stages of the funnel to maintain sales velocity. He highlights the need for ongoing partnerships and collaboration between functions to prevent breakdowns in the buyer's journey. Kahan stresses the importance of metrics and numbers to manage and optimize the sales and marketing process.

00:48:12 - Managing Multifunctional Disarray, 

Kahan emphasizes the importance of managing metrics and numbers to identify and resolve breakdowns in the buyer's journey. He encourages organizations to instrument their sales and marketing processes in detail and manage them rigorously to maintain sales velocity. Kahan stresses the need for ongoing collaboration between functions to prevent breakdowns and optimize the buyer's journey.

00:51:37 - Importance of Metrics, 

The importance of metrics and data analytics is discussed, with Steve Kahan emphasizing the need for ongoing refinement of data to improve marketing strategies.

00:52:09 - The Martech Stack and Metrics, 

The Martech section of the book is discussed, with Steve Kahan providing a blueprint for building a successful marketing stack. He emphasizes the importance of measuring KPIs and setting revenue goals.

00:54:08 - Practical Tips for Improving Lead Conversion Rates, 

Steve Kahan provides practical tips for improving lead conversion rates, including adding a "get a quote" button, minimizing friction in forms, using calls to action in every blog post, and catering to mobile users.

00:57:53 - The Importance of SEO and Google, 

Steve Kahan emphasizes the importance of SEO and Google for businesses today, noting that companies should focus on both great content and SEO optimization to increase their visibility in search results.

01:04:24 - Agency Selection and Scoring, 

Steve Kahan provides a scoring system for selecting digital agencies, emphasizing the need to choose partners who are all about the numbers and can provide expert analysis. He notes that selecting the right agency is crucial to a company's success.

01:08:38 - Building Great Content, 

Steve shares his approach to building great content by having meetings twice a year with cross-functional teams to generate ideas. He prioritizes the best ideas and relies on his team's expertise to create high-quality content that resonates with the target audience.

01:10:56 - The Importance of Getting Content Right, 

Steve emphasizes the importance of getting content right and making sure it resonates with the right buyer. He suggests that many companies struggle with the fundamentals of marketing, and focusing on these basics can make a significant difference.

01:11:29 - The Future of Marketing, 

Dan asks Steve about the trends that marketers should be aware of. Steve responds that the focus should be on mastering the fundamentals of marketing rather than looking for a silver bullet. He also mentions that he is currently writing a murder mystery with James Patterson's co-authors.

01:14:16 - Recommendation for High Velocity Digital Marketing, 

Dan highly recommends Steve's book, "High Velocity Digital Marketing," which offers practical advice on understanding the target audience, creating compelling content, measuring results, and improving marketing efforts. He also notes that David Meerman Scott wrote the book's foreword. 

01:16:55 - Wrapping Up, 

Dan thanks Steve for sharing his insights and experiences on the show. Steve expresses his pleasure in being a guest and shares his website and LinkedIn profile as the best places to find him.

In this episode, Dan connects with transformational coach and mindset master Luke Harlan. A former marketing executive, it took Luke a long time to give himself permission to be happy and successful. His journey towards self-transformation started with reclaiming his health and continues today as he helps others live the lives of their dreams through Mindset Freedom Coaching. 

Today, Luke and Dan talk about mindset as a muscle, the connection between mental wellness and physical wellness, the importance of rediscovering our childhood mentality and more.

In This Episode

• (02:21) From marketing exec to transformational coach
• (05:41) The warning signs that something needed to change
• (12:00) Luke’s epiphany
• (17:21) Give yourself permission to do things differently
• (19:35) The 5 distinct mindset shifts to get to freedom
• (25:47) “You are enough.”
• (27:19) Why mindset is a muscle that needs constant exercise
• (30:45) Three questions you need to ask yourself on the journey to transformation
• (36:06) The connection between mental wellness and physical wellness
• (40:04) “I did this to myself”: Luke’s marrow donation, and how he realized he needed to get healthy
• (49:32) The limited mindset problem
• (56:22) Rediscovering our childhood mentality
• (1:00:43) The virtue of saving the people swimming towards you
• (1:07:01) Luke’s final words of advice

Notable Quotes

• “It was just a mouse on the wheel type thing. I was tired of just doing the services. And that's when I fell in love with helping people within the business. And then that's when I went through that kind of matriculation of, okay, what are the habits and characteristics of the people who are hitting home runs and being successful and what are the behaviors of the people who are getting in their own way? And unfortunately, I felt like, oh, wow, I was part of the group that was getting in their own way. And I said, well, how can I help my clients? How can I help myself become better? Because I had that epiphany, that epiphany was like, dammit, if I'm not a hundred percent, I can't give a hundred percent. If my cup's empty, how do I pour into other people?” – Luke (06:43)
• “You right now in your current state, you're more than enough. You have the absolute capacity to change your life and it starts with you. It's a decision you get to make. A lot of times I've been there where you feel helpless, you feel like you're not enough. You feel like kinda life's against you. And if you can just switch to one little paradigm shift that I learned …if you grow through what you go through, develop that thicker skin, tenacity, skill up in your resilience, you're gonna tackle the next thing stronger, more confident, with more belief in yourself.” – Luke (1:07:01)

Resources & Links

The Dan Nestle Show

• https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• https://www.facebook.com/dsnestle/

Luke Harlan

• https://www.lukeharlancoaching.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukeharlan
• https://www.facebook.com/lukeharlancoaching
• https://www.instagram.com/lukeharlancoaching/
• https://www.youtube.com/c/LukeHarlan

In this week's episode, Dan connects with speaker, trainer, consultant, author, and super-connector Ginger Johnson to discuss - what else - how to make meaningful connections. Ginger has turned the art of connecting into a science, and in her book, Connectivity Canon, she lays out her 7-step methodology for making connections that can change the world. She and Dan dig into connections, finding your "why," mindset, abundance, and Dan learns all about FUFT in this entertaining and informative conversation.

In this episode, Dan connects with social media marketing leader, speaker, entrepreneur, advocate, customer service guru, and author, Brooke Sellas, to dig into the power of conversation for marketers and brands alike.  As the founder and CEO of B Squared Media, Brooke is at the forefront of harnessing social media to transform customer service - and she's learned that it's conversations, not campaigns, that build successful businesses. She and Dan have a very entertaining, and meta, conversation about conversations, and they discuss Brooke's new book, Conversations that Connect: How to Connect, Converse, and Convert Through Social Media Listening an Social-Led Customer Care. This is one episode you won't want to miss.

In this special episode, Dan shares his thoughts on the rapid rise in antisemitism in the weeks after Hamas brutally and barbarically murdered, maimed, raped, and kidnapped innocent Israelis, tourists, and visiting workers in southern Israel on October 7, 2023. These terrorists, on the worst day for Jews since the Holocaust, murdered approximately 1500 innocents, injured thousands more, and took over 200 hostages - including infants, children, elderly, disabled, and ill people from 33 countries. And they recorded all of it. 

Despite these atrocities and the incontrovertible evidence of the October 7 pogrom, despite the fact that innocents were deliberately attacked and the Hamas terrorists paraded hostages and dead bodies through the streets of Gaza amidst joyful crowds, despite the fact that Israeli babies were beheaded, despite the fact that Hamas openly calls for the elimination of the State of Israel and explicitly calls on its followers to kill Jews wherever they find them...despite all of this, anti-Israel, pro-Hamas, and - yes - antisemitic groups around the world took less than a day to start rallies, protests, marches, and a PR blitz AGAINST Israel and Jews. These despicable groups - a metastatic cancer that has spread around the world - have denied the atrocities and justified the Hamas attacks under any number of abhorrent ideologies. It wasn't long before synagogues were burning, Jewish property defaced and damaged, Jewish businesses vandalized, and violent incidents targeting Jewish people - including children, students, and the elderly - became a daily occurrence.

This inhumanity, this evil scourge of antisemitism, has deep roots in academia, religion, culture, and history. It has been the lifeblood of those who have persecuted and oppressed Jews for over two millennia. It has led to expulsions, pogroms, and the Holocaust. It has afflicted 15 million people presently living on Earth with an ever-present anxiety and fear of extermination. And now it is undeniably on the rise again, fueling Jew hatred everywhere. 

Why, then, is antisemitism ignored and denied? Why is it that our cowardly leaders can't say antisemitism without also invoking Islamophobia and generic hate? Why have CEOs and influencers who were and are so quick to support BLM, Ukraine, the Trans movement, anti-Asian hate, and a multitude of other causes, remained silent? Why have university professors, student groups, and administrators gone completely and utterly mad?

You won't find the answers in this episode. But you will find food for thought and a working definition of antisemitism that is a good place to start. Please listen, absorb, and think about how you can fight antisemitism or, at a bare minimum, see it for what it is.

***

Featured in this episode:

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) Working Definition of Antisemitism

Special thanks to The Commentary Magazine Podcast's October 23, 2023 episode with Michal Cotler-Wunsh, Israel's special envoy for combatting antisemitism, for inspiring me to do this.

In this episode, Dan connects with entrepreneur, business coach, trainer, speaker, and author of Secrets of a Six-Figure Freelancer, Kate Bagoy. A self-described nerd with an MBA, Kate has gone from corporate burnout several times over to a transformative, inspirational figure whose mission is to "help you design a life you love more than a fat kid loves cake." She and Dan talk about how she overcome her personal demons, pivoted several times in her life and career, and ultimately became the confident, self-actualized coach and adviser she is today. It's all about learning how to live life by design and not default - something Kate has done and now helps others figure out for themselves.

In this episode, Dan connects with the world's most industrious storyteller, Park Howell. As a teacher, author, entrepreneur, co-author (with Dr. Randy Olson) of The Narrative Gym for Business, and sole author of Brand Bewitchery, Park lives and breathes story - he and Dan discuss why he has "story in his soul" and how he brings the power of story to marketers, salespeople, and leaders across industries. Listeners will come away with practical advice and tips for buidling effective stories - including the fundamentals of the ABT (And, But, Therefore) method. Plus, Park has a special offer for some lucky listeners.

In this episode, Dan connects with executive coach, lawyer, communicator, and entrepreneur Beth Masterman, president of Masterman Executive Coaching and incoming President of the International Coach Federation (ICF) of New England. Their broad-ranging discussion covers coaching, resilience, hope, leadership, learning, Internal Family Systems theory, and more. It's jam-packed with knowledge and Beth's wisdom, a fantastic discussion for anyone interested in personal growth.

In this episode, Dan can barely contain his excitement as he connects with author, educator, entrepreneur, TED talker, and reinvention guru Dr. Nadya Zhexembayeva. As the author of The Chief Reinvention Officer Handbook and founder of The Reinvention Academy, Nadya has devoted her professional life to gaining a deeper understanding of the art and science of reinvention. Now she helps leaders and their companies predict, accept, embrace, and incorporate change to thrive in chaos. She and Dan discuss how Nadya became the Queen of Reinvention, uncovering her own incredible story of resilience and reinvention that set her on her path to success.

On this week's episode, Dan connects with executive career coach, speaker, facilitator, trainer, and podcaster Tammy Gooler Loeb, host of the Work from the Inside Out podcast. She and Dan get into some self-exploration, uncovering insights about the importance of curiosity and openness, especially when it comes to dealing with misery at work. Tammy drops some wisdom about dealing with failure and regret, while Dan gets some free therapy.

In this episode, Dan connects with a man who is the epitome of lifelong learning and reinvention. A one-time CEO who admits that despite great career success, he misplaced his integrity many years ago, Jon Keel rediscovered what matters in life and set out on a journey of discovery and reinvention - which ultimately led him to LinkedIn. Now as Founder and CEO of Improved Results LLC, he helps others understand the power and importance of relationships and how to use LinkedIn the right way. He may call himself The Old Dog with New Tricks, but there are no tricks in Jon's repertoire - only solid advice and methodologies based on the single idea that relationships matter far more than transactions do. He and Dan discuss all of this and more, sharing some key LinkedIn strategies along the way.

In this episode, Dan connects with a legendary leader-turned-coach in the public relations arena, Ken Jacobs. As principal of Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching, Ken works with some of the top PR firms to help their leaders grow and thrive. Ken's charm and humor come through as he and Dan discuss the agency world, the differences between management and leadership, finding purpose in your career and life, and much more.

In this episode, Dan connects with the founder of the Marketing Advisory Network, author of Unleash Possible, host of the Unleash Possible podcast, and most recently co-author (with Dan and 34 others) of The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever, B2B powerhouse Samantha Stone. With a passion for complex problem-solving, Samantha shares powerful insights on the value of communicating effectively with your customers 

B2B communication is strategic, and all too often, businesses make the mistake of thinking it just happens. In reality, it takes time, and as it turns out, it’s one of the most intentional, strategic components of your entire business model. It takes effort to understand your customers, who they are, and what they need. Once you’ve done those things, it’s time to activate them with a message that brings it all together and ignites something special. 

Neither Dan nor Samantha pulls any punches in this episode as they dismiss myths about marketing and share eye-opening insights that will get your gears moving in the right direction. They also discuss her book entitled, “Unleash Possible: A Marketing Playbook that Drives B2B Sales.” When it comes to B2B marketing, chances are Samantha has been there and done that. Now, she wants to make sure you reach that same place and do it better.

Here's what you can expect from the show: 

• Insightful exchanges on the nuances of B2B and B2C communication. 
• The power of networking and value of intimate networks of influencers and contacts.
• The need for marketers and creatives to be amongst one another for a nurturing experience.
• The B2B Experience: stories, reputations, trust, and getting to know your customers.
• Narrowing it down to find out who you can best serve.
• The flaw of spending your way to success and growth. 
• Sales can do things that marketing simply cannot … because marketing isn’t always human. 
• Building sustainable customer relationships, not just securing a sale. 
• Sometimes you have to hold the hands of sales and show them the way. 
• The importance of managing internal stakeholders and understanding their “why”. 
• If everyone is focusing on the buyer, all the jobs become easier. 
• The remote workplace has changed the work-learning landscape. 

Notable Quotes

• “Marketing, communications, whatever it is that we do, creativity, being curious, intellectual curiosity, they’re all so common across leaders in the field, but they need a valve or safe space to let ideas fly.” – (9:16) – Dan
• “Good marketing, great education is emotional.” – (10:19) – Samantha
• “Just because you don’t have the skill doesn’t mean you can’t get the skill.” – (22:24) – Dan
• “Businesses need to find niches that they can own and expand from.” – (28:50) – Samantha
• “Qualitative research is actually a little bit of a lost art.” – (36:44) – Samantha 
• “As human beings it is natural for us to put the most value on the product or service that is the hardest for us to deliver.” – (39:08) – Samantha
• “If we take the time to understand our customers, we’ll build businesses that have sustainable growth.” – (1:12) Samantha
  

About Dan Nestle 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter
• The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever

About Samantha Stone

Samantha Stone is a forward thinker and true champion of B2B communications. She’s the author of Unleash Possible: A Marketing Playbook that Drives B2B Sales and a leading contributor to the rapidly evolving world of marketing. A skilled researcher, highly sought after speaker and consultant, she’s authored several successful go-to-market efforts, resulting in recognizable results for brands across the business spectrum. The founder of Marketing Advisory Network, the arch of her career has seen her become one of the most trusted voices in the B2B space. Most recently, she has developed on-demand courses focused on mastering the art of finding and using buyer insights. She is a member of Mark Schaefer’s RISE Community and co-author (with Mark, Dan, and 33 others) of The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever.

• Samantha Stone | LinkedIn
• Samantha Stone on Twitter - @Samanthastone
• Unleash Possible - The Website
• Unleash Possible - The Podcast
• Unleash Possible - The Book
• Samantha’s On-Demand Buyer Insight Courses

Timestamped summary of this episode

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Host Dan Nestle introduces himself and his guest, Samantha Stone, a leading B2B marketing influencer and advisor. They discuss the challenges and rewards of B2B marketing.
00:04:29 - The Uprising and Rise Communities,
Dan and Samantha discuss their attendance at the Uprising conference and their involvement in the Rise community. They talk about the importance of connecting with other marketing professionals and the value of in-person events.
00:08:35 - Emotional Marketing,
Samantha and Dan discuss the emotional aspect of marketing and the importance of tapping into the human experience. They reflect on how the Uprising and Rise communities have provided a safe space to explore ideas and connect with others.
00:11:22 - The Value of Community,
Dan and Samantha talk about the value of being part of a community and the benefits of engaging with other professionals. They discuss the Rise community's use of Discord and how it has become a valuable tool for learning and networking.
00:14:10 - From Economics to Marketing,
Samantha shares her journey from studying economics in college to becoming a B2B marketing influencer and advisor. She discusses her passion for helping companies drive revenue through effective marketing strategies.
00:14:33 - Challenges of Public Policy,
Samantha reflects on her love for policy and its challenges, but admits to being impatient. She discusses the slow pace of public policy and how it takes years to make an impact because it affects whole communities.
00:16:14 - From Sales to Marketing,
Samantha talks about how she transitioned from channel sales to marketing. She discovered her love for marketing and how it allowed her to have a bigger impact. She also discusses the challenges she faced and how she learned as she went along.
00:19:34 - The Birth of Marketing Advisory Network,
Samantha explains why she started the Marketing Advisory Network. She wanted to do what she loved without the baggage of internal politics clouding her judgment. She also talks about how she wrote her book to help people who couldn't afford her services.
00:22:29 - The Importance of People Skills,
Samantha discusses the importance of people skills in marketing and sales. She talks about how she honed her people skills by being empathetic and understanding the sales team's perspective. She also emphasizes that anyone can learn people skills with practice and guidance.
00:27:18 - Unleashing Possible,
Samantha talks about her book, Unleash Possible, and how it helps companies tap into their full potential. She emphasizes that companies often overlook the resources they have within their organization, such as people and processes. She also discusses the importance of convincing the world of your big opportunity when starting a business.
00:28:44 - The Importance of Narrowing Audience,
To create traction, businesses need to find niches to own and expand from. Focusing on narrowing the audience helps to better understand who a business can best serve and prevent bringing in customers who aren't a great fit.
00:29:42 - Measuring Marketing Incorrectly,
Boards, CEOs, and salespeople are obsessed with measuring marketing by the number of leads generated. This approach creates the wrong behavior and makes marketing focus on the wrong things. Instead, marketing should be held accountable for overall business metrics and growth.
00:33:00 - Spending Your Way into Success and Growth,
Businesses too often try to spend their way into success and growth by running more ads and content syndication. However, they overlook referral activity, advocacy, and word of mouth, which are missed opportunities. Businesses need to experiment with these channels for better results.
00:36:48 - Qualitative Research,
Qualitative research is critical for understanding why a buyer or a group of buyers likes a specific aspect of a product or service. It complements data by helping businesses understand what is essential to each buyer at each stage of the process. Salespeople are the best personalization engines for building emotional connections.
00:42:43 - The Role of Experienced Salespeople,
Experienced salespeople instinctively know the buyer persona or the buyer data and can build emotional connections. However, they may not have the mechanism or incentive to share this data with their teammates or
00:43:46 - The Importance of Understanding Buyers,
Samantha Stone emphasizes the importance of understanding buyers' needs. She explains that good salespeople do not waste time convincing someone to buy something they do not need. Stone believes it is crucial to earn the trust of salespeople and understand what drives them.
00:45:16 - Buyer Personas in Recruitment,
Stone mentions her team's focus on the book "The New Rules of Marketing & PR" and creating buyer personas for recruitment. She notes the challenge of obtaining information from recruiters and emphasizes the need to tailor marketing materials to different learning styles.
00:47:11 - Building Relationships with Salespeople,
The conversation shifts to the relationship between sales and marketing. Stone explains that salespeople are often hesitant to share data because they do not see any benefit. She recommends creating pilots to prove the effectiveness of marketing materials and building relationships with influential salespeople.
00:50:21 - Knowing Internal Stakeholders,
Stone stresses the importance of understanding internal stakeholders, such as salespeople, and creating buyer personas for them. She emphasizes the need to recognize different personalities and learning styles and tailor marketing materials accordingly.
00:56:33 - Samantha Stone's New Learning Product,
Stone introduces her new learning product, designed to help people who are new to the marketing field or transitioning to a new role. She notes the challenges of learning remotely and emphasizes the importance of staying up-to-date with the latest industry developments.
00:58:12 - Samantha's Transition to Creating a Self Paced Class,
Samantha talks about her transition from providing custom training to creating a self-paced class. She shares that she wanted to make her workshop material accessible to a broader audience and that her course is video-based with exercises in a workbook to help participants apply the skills to their job.
00:58:59 - Buyer Insights Course,
Samantha's first course is all about finding buyer insights and is heavy on qualitative research skills. The goal is to help more people understand how to do this kind of research, even if it's not their primary job. The course is designed to take the mystery out of conducting interviews and help people ask better questions.
01:01:00 - Understanding Buyers,
Samantha emphasizes the importance of understanding buyers and the need to eliminate friction from the process. She shares a personal experience of how a company lost her as a customer because of the friction they put in the sales process. She believes that marketing is all about understanding people and that it's a good human skill to have.
01:02:44 - Simplifying the Process,
Samantha talks about the importance of keeping things simple and removing obstacles for buyers. She believes in creating a frictionless process and removing unnecessary steps to make it easier for buyers. She believes that marketers need to constantly go through and try to eliminate friction points as they come up.
01:10:12 - Taking Time Off,
Samantha talks about the importance of taking time off and making time for personal and family commitments
01:11:18 - Long-term thinking in business, farewells

Show notes created in part with Capsho

Generative AI may be the first form of artificial intelligence that we can all interact with directly, with no skill needed apart from the ability to write or speak a set of instructions. And while it's arguably the hottest topic right now, other AI tools and applications can elevate capabilities and help communicators and marketers move up the value chain. 

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle ventures once again into the transformative potential of AI in the communications field with guest Danny Gaynor, Head of Kelp (which he co-founded) at Signal AI. Danny's journey from a political strategist and corporate communications executive to an AI innovator offers a unique perspective on how technology can reshape the way we approach storytelling and reputation management.

Dan and Danny explore the critical role of AI in enhancing the precision and impact of communications strategies. They discuss the limitations of traditional methods like surveys and focus groups, which often provide outdated and narrow insights. Instead, Danny introduces the concept of discriminative AI, a powerful tool that uncovers the nuanced context of topics and entities - allowing communicators to identify their true areas of strength, optimize their narratives, and navigate potential risks with unprecedented accuracy. Danny shares practical examples of how this technology can validate intuition, offer reputational ROI, and act as a single source of truth across an organization.

They discuss how connecting discriminative and generative AI can be a powerful combination, helping communicators and their colleagues make data-driven decisions and demonstrate their impact. Looking ahead, they envision a future where AI-enabled communicators are not just content creators but strategic leaders who drive decision-making with data-backed insights, painting a compelling picture of the transformative potential of AI in the communications field.

Listen in and hear about...

• How measurement in communications is being transformed by AI, enhancing capabilities significantly.
• Danny Gaynor's transition from a political and corporate communications expert to co-founding an AI-powered corporate reputation platform.
• Distinguishing between generative AI and discriminative AI, and their unique roles in enhancing communication strategies.
• Identifying and leveraging unique proof points to create differentiated corporate narratives.
• AI's role in helping communicators validate their intuition, provide reputational ROI, and unify information across organizational functions.
• Why communicators need to experiment with AI, train their own AI models, and showcase the impact of data-driven strategies.
• Shifts in the role of communicators within organizations, moving from reliance on intuition to becoming strategic, data-driven influencers.

Notable Quotes

• [06:05] "As a communications professional, I think we're all vexed by the exact same question: Am I throwing the right spaghetti at the wall?" - Danny Gaynor
  
• [07:18] "A goal without a deadline is just a dream." - Danny Gaynor
  
• [40:13] "I very much see the folks embracing AI in communications as being even more influential leaders at their companies, as opposed to being out of a job." - Danny Gaynor
  
• [41:18] "If you're stuck with 'Oh well, if AI takes this away, what am I going to do?' then frankly, you probably deserve not to do anything once AI takes your job away." - Dan Nestle
  
• [57:50] "You can make AI your own, you can make the ingredients your own, and you can make the outputs your own in a way that is more accessible than ever before." - Danny Gaynor
  
• [59:52] "It's a very rare moment in the history of capitalism where we can develop something that will be industry standard and that will be reputational ROI, that will be quantifying the impact of communications." -DannyGaynor

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Danny Gaynor

• Signal AI | Website
• Kelp | LinkedIn
• Daniel Gaynor | LinkedIn

Timestamped summary for this episode (generated by ChatGPT)

[00:01:09] Daniel's career journey

Daniel Gaynor shares his career trajectory from politics to communications and his focus on measurement and AI.

[00:05:35] Understanding discriminative AI

Daniel Gaynor explores the concept of discriminative AI and its role in communication and measurement.

[00:09:29] The need for data-driven insights

The discussion turns to the limitations of traditional research methods and the potential of technology to provide better audience research and insights.

[00:15:53] Leveraging AI for communication

The benefits of using AI to analyze big data and craft communication strategies based on authentic proof points are explored.

[00:19:44] Discriminative AI vs. generative AI

The conversation contrasts discriminative AI with generative AI and highlights its role as a complement tool in communication and creativity.

[00:20:42] Generative and Discriminative AI

An explanation of generative and discriminative AI and their potential synergy for content evaluation and categorization is provided.

[00:21:56] Limitations of Boolean Searches

The limitations of using keywords and the need for discriminative AI to evaluate accuracy and create reputational ROI are discussed.

[00:22:25] Identifying Areas of Strength

How discriminative AI can help communicators identify narrative strengths and weaknesses in competitive landscapes is discussed.

[00:25:17] Challenges in Identifying Strengths

The difficulties communicators face in identifying narrative strengths and the importance of foundational theory and horizon scanning are discussed.

[00:27:26] Training AI Topics

The process of training topics in discriminative AI to ensure accuracy and relevance in content categorization is explained.

[00:28:35] Tweaking Topic Definitions

The process of refining individual topic definitions until reaching high accuracy and the benefits of a broad horizon scan are discussed.

[00:29:33] Narrative Validation

The need for narrative validation and specificity in corporate narratives to ensure credibility and relevance is emphasized.

[00:30:41] Analyzing Message Effectiveness

Understanding where messages are falling flat and the importance of focusing on fewer, deeper storylines is discussed.

[00:31:50] Risk Avoidance and Reputation Threats

Using discriminative AI to determine material threats to reputation and focus attention on critical issues is discussed.

[00:33:01] Data Insights and Strategic Reports

The importance of providing data insights through dashboards and strategic reports to make data digestible for communicators is highlighted.

[00:36:29] Generative AI and Product Development

The potential for communicators to become product developers by leveraging generative AI and retooling the power of discriminative AI is discussed.

[00:40:13] AI as a Convening Force

The role of AI in communications as a single source of truth that provides quantitative rationale and reputational ROI is discussed.

[00:41:18] Abundance Mentality with AI

The speaker encourages embracing AI as an additive element and to have an abundance mentality towards change and upskilling.

[00:42:17] Embracing AI in Communication

The potential of AI tools and the need to experiment and gain expertise in AI are discussed.

[00:44:23] Strategic Shift in Communication

The evolving role of communicators from writing press releases to being strategic advisors and decision-makers is discussed.

[00:46:40] Professional Advancement and Recognition

The need for the communication profession to be recognized for AI expertise and strategic input within the organization is emphasized.

[00:47:10] Training AI and Socializing Data

The importance of training AI, socializing data-driven messaging, and demonstrating data-driven impact is discussed.

[00:50:09] Utilizing AI for Analysis

Ways to use AI for benchmark analysis and deep dive analysis to demonstrate the capacity of AI and big data are explored.

[00:54:53] Corporate Environment and AI Ownership

The need for AI ownership shared across different teams and the importance of recognizing AI's potential are discussed.

[00:57:50] Humanizing Messaging with AI

AI's role in humanizing messaging and making communications more relatable, digestible, and emotionally resonant is discussed.

[00:59:22] Hopeful Future of AI

Predictions about the future impact of AI and the development of industry-standard reputational ROI metrics are made.

[01:02:48] Adapting AI to Unforeseen Avenues

The speaker encourages embracing disruptive innovation and adapting AI to new and unforeseen applications.

[01:03:48] Reputational shifts in less sexy industries

Experimentation with AI in non-household name industries to manage reputational shifts is encouraged.

[01:04:42] Connecting with Daniel Gaynor

Information on how to find and connect with Daniel Gaynor on LinkedIn and Signal AI is provided.

[01:05:53] Future mini-series and show and tell

Discussions on making a mini-series within the Trending Communicator ecosystem and a potential show and tell video demonstration are mentioned.

[01:06:44] Closing remarks and call to action

The speaker expresses appreciation, salutation, and a call to action for subscribing, sharing, and leaving reviews for the podcast. 

(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)

Is AI the greatest gift ever for lazy people? I've often said that if you want to find a better way to do something, ask a lazy person. Laziness, as it turns out, is a virtue. Lazy people want to find the most efficient way to get through a task. No wonder they're taking to AI like fish to water.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle connects with Kami Huyse, CEO of Zoetica. A self-described "lazy entrepreneur," Kami has nonetheless blazed new trails in AI adoption and implementation and is a recognized PR industry thought leader, speaker, and author.  Dan and Kami explore the transformative impact of AI on the PR and marketing industries, emphasizing the importance of ethical considerations and critical thinking. 

Their discussion highlights the necessity of asking better questions, experimenting strategically, and maintaining a human-centric approach to AI. They also delve into AI's ethical challenges, stressing the need for transparency and responsible use. 

It's anything but a lazy conversation - it's a must-listen for professionals looking to navigate the evolving landscape of AI in communications.

Listen in and hear about....

• The importance of an entrepreneurial mindset while embracing AI
• AI "recipes" that can help you advance from a "home cook" prompter to a true AI "chef" 
• How prompting skills may become obsolete as AI integration in software increases
• The necessity of critical thinking, curiosity, and a strategic mindset for effective AI interaction
• The importance of ethics and transparency when we use AI
• How AI can assist in content creation while maintaining a brand's unique voice and style
• Practical insights on leveraging AI for community building and social media strategy

Notable Quotes

On Being a Lazy Entrepreneur:
- "I call myself a lazy entrepreneur in a sense, because what I've always done is I look at a problem that's in front of me, and I try to figure out a way to do it more efficiently and different."
— Kami Huyse [00:03:33 → 00:03:45]

On the Evolution of Social Media and AI:
- "I've always been a forward-leaning person, and we did some of the first social media campaigns for big, big brands that you would know. So we did those social media campaigns early because we look at solving problems with current technology. And to me, AI is just an extension of that."
— Kami Huyse [00:05:00 → 00:05:20]

On the Importance of Asking Better Questions:
- "We need to start to think about how to elevate those conversations. What do we need to, what questions do we need to be asking? We need to ask better questions. That's where the training comes in."
— Kami Huyse [00:12:00 → 00:12:10]

On the Role of Imperfection in Human Creativity:
- "How do we have a pattern interrupt? I'll tell you how you throw in the imperfect human. That's how you tell imperfect stories. You talk about being a lazy entrepreneur. These are pattern interrupts that AI won't come up with on its own."
— Kami Huyse [00:30:00 → 00:30:15]

On the Future of AI and Human Interaction:
- "We need to think about what can we bring to the table that is like a spice of human while understanding fully the AI and using it fully. So not throwing the baby out the bathwater, as we always said, but using the AI for what it's good for and throwing in your own spice."
— Kami Huyse [00:30:30 → 00:30:50]

On the Ethical Use of AI:
- "AI isn't inherently evil, but the people who wield it are maybe so there's people that wield the AI. Here's the problem with AI in general. It's just like our society. Like, we talk about, you know, racism and bias and, you know, sexism and terrible things. Here's what AI does. It takes all of the knowledge of the world, and it boils it down and it repeats it back to you."
— Kami Huyse [00:59:41 → 01:00:10]

On the Role of Communicators in Ethical AI:
- "We as PR communicators should be the ombudsman for our organizations. We should bring our point of view to protect the people that we represent as PR people. And the people we represent are our audience, are our customers, our stakeholders."
— Kami Huyse [01:06:25 → 01:06:45]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Kami Huyse

• Kami's Flowpage: Links to social media, resources, and more
• Zoetica Media, Digital Agency | Website

Books Mentioned

• The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever: More than 350 inspiring ideas!, by Mark Schaefer and Friends (Including Kami and Dan)
• Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI, by Ethan Mollick

Timestamped summary for this episode (as generated by ChatGPT)

The origin of ideas (00:00:00)

Dan discusses his excitement for new ideas and tech, including the concept of creating custom GPT.

The traits of successful idea execution (00:01:02)

Dan outlines the traits and qualities required for successful idea execution, such as discipline, focus, and support.

Introduction of Kami Huyse (00:02:01)

Dan introduces Kami Huyse, highlighting her background and expertise in PR, marketing, and AI integration.

Kami's problem-solving approach (00:03:46)

Kami discusses her approach to solving problems efficiently and her focus on community building and AI integration.

Evolution of media and technology (00:09:53)

Dan and Kami reflect on the digital transformation and the importance of hands-on experiences in the marketing profession.

The importance of AI training and mindset (00:11:55)

Kami emphasizes the significance of training and developing an entrepreneurial mindset for effectively integrating AI in communication and marketing.

Ethan Mollick's principles of AI interaction (00:17:07)

Dan discusses Ethan Mollick's principles for interacting with AI, including inviting AI to the table, being the human in the loop, treating AI like a person, and acknowledging AI's continuous improvement.

The importance of asking better questions (00:18:56)

Kami discusses the importance of asking better questions to guide AI in achieving desired tasks and outcomes.

The analogy of home cook and chef (00:19:37)

Kami compares the difference between a home cook and a chef to illustrate the importance of understanding and utilizing AI tools effectively.

The need for strategic training in AI tools (00:21:40)

Kami emphasizes the significance of strategic training for the next generation to effectively use AI tools and adapt to the evolving marketplace.

The integration of AI in software applications (00:22:54)

The discussion revolves around the increasing integration of AI capabilities in various software applications and its impact on prompting and human interaction.

The evolving role of prompting in AI usage (00:24:01)

The conversation delves into the evolving role of prompting in AI usage, the impact of contextual understanding, and the distinction between chefs and home cooks in utilizing AI.

The significance of asking power questions (00:25:04)

The importance of asking power questions and the role of strategic prompting in utilizing AI effectively is highlighted.

The importance of being relentlessly curious (00:27:07)

Kami emphasizes the significance of being relentlessly curious and training the brain to notice and understand AI interactions.

The concept of almost homemade solutions (00:29:01)

Kami discusses the concept of almost homemade solutions, encouraging individuals to add their own unique touch to AI tools for personalized outcomes.

The value of the imperfect human in AI interaction (00:30:01)

The significance of embracing imperfection and adding human elements to AI interactions for unique and effective outcomes is emphasized.

The need for critical thinking and curiosity in AI interaction (00:32:02)

The importance of critical thinking, curiosity, and asking questions to drive effective interaction with AI tools is discussed.

The importance of adding personal touch to AI tools (00:33:56)

The significance of adding a personal touch and unique spice to AI tools for tailored and effective utilization is highlighted.

The significance of being a critical thinker and inquisitive communicator (00:37:05)

The importance of critical thinking, curiosity, and being an inquisitive communicator in adapting to AI tools and driving effective outcomes is emphasized.

Critical thinking (00:38:20)

Emphasizing the importance of critical thinking skills in evaluating information and avoiding deception.

Asking better questions (00:39:12)

Highlighting the significance of asking great questions to avoid monolithic content and promoting individuality.

Life experiences and personal touch (00:40:10)

Discussing the value of bringing personal experiences and unique elements to content creation to avoid generic outcomes.

Human element in AI (00:41:49)

Emphasizing the need for human input and caution when relying solely on AI, acknowledging occasional breakdowns and the importance of adding personal touch.

Ethics and AI technology (00:42:43)

Exploring the ethical implications of AI technology, including power consumption and the need for continuous input of new information.

Reading and vocabulary (00:48:27)

Stressing the importance of reading to enhance vocabulary and improve communication with AI.

Writing and editing (00:50:20)

Emphasizing the significance of being a good writer and engaging in editing to effectively communicate with AI.

Community involvement (00:52:52)

Advocating joining communities to learn from peers and stay informed about emerging technologies.

Curiosity and diverse learning (00:54:51)

Encouraging continuous curiosity, diverse learning, and open-mindedness to expand knowledge and perspectives.

Neuroscience and AI (00:57:08)

Discussion on the neuroscience behind AI interaction and the concept of neural networks.

Ethical Considerations (00:58:22)

Exploration of the societal, political, and civilizational changes brought by powerful digital entities and the focus on ethical AI usage.

Bias in AI (01:00:04)

Insight into the biases present in AI and the need for training to reduce biases, with examples of biased prompts and diversity representation.

AI Governance and Ethics (01:05:44)

Discussion on the need for external oversight in AI governance and the role of communicators as ethical safeguards.

Transparency and Ethics (01:08:24)

Importance of transparency in AI usage and the alignment of AI ethics with general ethical principles and governance.

Ethical Decision-Making (01:13:25)

Emphasis on the responsibility of individuals to inject morality and ethics into AI, and the ongoing discussion and importance of ethical considerations.

Backbone and Ethics (01:15:08)

The need for courage and backbone in ethical decision-making, with a focus on the role of communicators in promoting ethical practices.

Difficult decisions (01:16:14)

Discussion on the challenge of expressing contravening opinions and the weight of decision-making in today's society.

Tools and resources (01:17:14)

Mention of plans to discuss tools and resources, and a recommendation to connect with Kami for valuable resources.

Connect with Kami (01:18:00)

Information on how to connect with Kami Huyse on social media and her company, Kamchatka, and a mention of her live streams and AI show.

Closing remarks (01:19:52)

Gratitude for Kami's participation and an invitation to subscribe, share, and provide feedback for the podcast.

(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)

In this episode, Dan connects with digital marketing influencer, entrepreneur, author, speaker, and podcaster Michael Fleischner to talk about the state of marketing today and what it takes to become a successful marketing freelancer. They dig into Michael's journey, how his book, SEO Made Simple, changed the trajectory of his career, and how freelancing became his path to success and ultimately to founding his own firm, Big Fin SEO. It's a conversation filled with incredible, practical wisdom from one of the leading voices in marketing today.

This week Dan celebrates surviving his first year as a podcaster with best-selling author, PR Hall of Famer, entrepreneur, ballroom dancer, public speaker, and purveyor of joy, the amazing Patrice Tanaka. As the Chief Joy Officer of Joyful Planet LLC, Patrice is living her life's purpose: to choose every single day; to be mindful of that joy, and to share that joy with others. She and Dan discuss her purpose in some detail and try to get to the bottom of joy itself. By the end of the episode, Patrice offers to help listeners to find their purpose, and Dan promises to take her up on the offer. It's a deep, meaningful, and yes, joyful conversation that you won't want to miss,

On this week's episode, Dan sits down with PR industry insider, communications technology influencer, and social media leader, Todd Grossman. As the CEO - Americas at Talkwalker, Todd is at the forefront of social listening and analytics, and he and Dan dig in and get a bit geeky on just how far measurement has come in recent years. But more than that, they talk about the evolution of the PR industry as a whole, where it's going, and of course, what the CEO of one of the top SAAS companies does in his spare time to save the world.

In this episode, Dan sits down with serial entrepreneur, raconteur, and relentless connector, Joe Mindak. As Connector in Chief for exclusive business networking group The Connective, Joe lives his passion daily: making and facilitating connections that lead to business deals, mutual learning, and friendships (not to mention podcast appearances). He and Dan dig into his willingness to "go do shit" - to take risks, learn from failures, and relentlessly pursue your goals.

This week Dan has the privilege and honor to connect with Deirdre Breakenridge, a leading advocate for women in business and one of the most influential thinkers in strategic communications, ever. Entrepreneur, professor, consultant, podcaster, blogger, and author of numerous books including Socal Media and Public Relations, PR 2.0, and the upcoming Answers for Ethical Marketers, Deirdre shares her journey, why she started the Women Worldwide Network, her thoughts on creativity, ethics, empathy, EQ, and much more. She and Dan have a thoughtful, optimistic, and heartwarming conversation that's a perfect way to wrap up the year.

In this episode, Dan connects with two-time Top 50 Social Media Power Influencer, author, engineer, and entrepreneur, Mike O'Neil. Mike was the world's first LinkedIn coach and trainer, and now through his firm, Integrated Alliances, helps his clients and friends to get the most out of LinkedIn and Sales Navigator. He and Dan dive deep into LinkedIn world in a broad (and somewhat geeky) discussion of the platform, how it has evolved, how to use it like a pro, and more. Of course, they tell a few stories along the way. Tune in for practical advice and an entertaining conversation.

In this episode, Dan sits down with confidence coach and vocal authority expert Elaine Williams, founder of Captivate the Crowd and co-host of the Still Human podcast. A stand-up comic with a harrowing backstory, Elaine talks about how she overcame serious trauma to not only fuel her own career but to serve others and help them realize their potential. She and Dan dig into the idea of confidence, being a hero, finding your voice, our need to learn, and more. Funny and heartwarming, Elaine’s powerful story – and her insight into Dan – is something you won’t want to miss.

In this episode, Dan connects with business builder, data scientist, tech industry leader, and iBridge LLC co-founder and CEO Desh Urs to dive into leadership, data transformation, company culture, and the internet’s influence on understanding and utilizing data. After spending decades in the data science field, Desh saw how his clients struggled with the huge gaps in data quality and analysis, and together with his wife founded iBridge to solve that problem. Now, over 15 years later, Desh talks about the winding road he took to build a successful global business and grow into the leader he is today. He and Dan dig into the importance of building a corporate culture rooted in empathy and awareness, and Desh reveals some unique leadership development tactics he's using to grow his people and his business. In this wide-ranging conversation, Desh offers his insight into the state of data science, company-wide accountability, leadership, family, the meaning of connections, and much more. 

In This Episode

• (1:11) Introduction to Desh Urs
• (3:21) Navigating the last few years
• (5:14) Desh’s beginning and journey through data 
• (11:37) The internet’s influence on business, opinion, and data
• (19:04) The role of curiosity and a learning mindset
• (24:41) Where Dan and Desh were on 9/11 
• (29:06) Beginning iBridge, finding success, and the impact on personal life
• (43:56) Family culture and the human-to-human connection
• (49:02) Leading with empathy and leadership development at iBridge
• (59:27) iBridge’s mission and digital transformation as a whole
• (1:11:39) The pace of acceleration 

Notable Quotes

• “We all know how to ask questions, but the art of asking the right question is sort of few and far between. And when you think about when you’re trying to collect information, either anonymously or for a purpose… the questions that you ask can lead to information gathering or can lead to assessments…” – Desh (7:48)
• “That is what I think we miss as we get older – that amazement, that feeling of “My God! Do I really know this?” As opposed to, “I know this, and this is how this is.” And that’s the world of data.” – Desh (17:48)
• “The word we use – “customer, customer, customer” – is another human being just like you.” – Desh (47:02)
• “It is hard work to do this, but it’s extremely fun work. And there is such pleasure in helping people understand there is a bigger purpose to all this… I’m the guy that’s spreading the joy, so if you’re not happy, I have failed.” – Desh (1:15:15)

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow

Desh Urs

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/deshurs
• https://ibridgellc.com/

In this episode, Dan connects with career strategist, ex-recruiter, host of the Career Blast in a Half podcast, and President of Portfoliorocket.com,  Loren Greiff. A career trailblazer in her own right who rose to the highest levels of ad agency leadership before embarking on a second career in recruiting and career management, Loren experienced the recruiting world from all angles - and concluded that the current model is fundamentally broken, somewhat inhuman, and rigged against job seekers. To fix it, she founded Portfolio Rocket - a career curriculum that uses a radical approach to helping professionals level up their careers and discover how to uncover the hidden job market.

She and Dan dig deep into the challenges facing job seekers; the almost criminal lack of career education and the resulting reactive, shallow approach to career management; the importance of mindset and of exploring your “why;” and much more. There’s something in this episode for anyone who has ever had to manage their career (which means pretty much everyone).

Listen in and hear…

• Fatal flaws that today’s recruiters are making and how to overcome them.
• The potentially dangerous impact of living an unfulfilled professional life. 
• The professional lightbulb moment that sparked something in Loren.
• Where the recruiting industry gets it all wrong and how you can get it right. 
• Why job searching is actually a life skill. 
• The importance of embracing the gift of desperation. 
• Why job seekers don’t have to start their search from scratch.
• The trickle-down impact of an executive departure.
• The debilitating concept of “Landline Thinking.”
• The length of time your resume warrants and how to overcome it.
• Why your resume is only a piece of your job-seeking arsenal. 
• The new, revolutionary mindset that every job seeker must have.
• Problem-solving and alignment with the needs of potential employers. 
• Understanding your professional why.
• The Coffee Strategy and the Essence of the Hidden Job Market. 

Notable Quotes:

• “I’m very much the challenger, I’m very much the person that’s seeking to find the information, I also can be the informant.” – (6:20) - Loren
• “Our careers, they don’t live in some compartment. They run alongside you as your partner in your professional life.” – (8:47) - Loren
• “Career management should be a skill set.” (26:22) - Dan
• “Robots might take your job, so now is a great time to start thinking about the skill set you need to manage your career.” – (33:50) – Dan
• “Please stop asking yourself, ‘what do I want to do next?’ and replace it with ‘what problems do I love to solve?’” – (38:27) – Loren 
• “Networking is always about the quality.” – (55:58) – Loren 
• “What keeps me up at night is the unbelievable roadblocks that come in so many mental formats.” – (1:10:22) - Loren

Loren Greiff’s Links

• Loren Greiff – Linkedin
• Portfolio Rocket
• Career Blast in a Half Podcast
  

Dan Nestle’s Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) | Twitter

Key episode highlights (courtesy of Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show,
00:03:02 - The Power of Genuine Connections,
00:05:58 - Loren Greiff's Journey,
00:09:30 - The Disconnection Between Job and Personal Life,
00:13:57 - Finding Success in Recruiting,
00:16:08 - Making a Career Change,
00:19:04 - A Crisis of Integrity,
00:21:04 - The Challenges of Recruitment,
00:23:25 - The Sad Reality of the System,
00:28:12 - Embracing Change,
00:33:35 - Rapid Technological Changes and Career Implications,
00:35:16 - The Problem with Landline Thinking,
00:38:00 - Shifting Mindset and Identifying Problems,
00:40:51 - Reconnecting with Purpose,
00:46:32 - Niche and Career Management,
00:49:52 - Optimizing Your LinkedIn Profile,
00:51:59 - Building a Pipeline of Networking Conversations,
00:52:58 - Treating Your Career Like Your Health,
00:54:32 - Quality Networking vs. Superficial Connections,
01:00:38 - The Hidden Job Market & Creating Opportunities,
01:07:17 - Lively and Spicy Conversation,
01:08:13 - Embracing Change in Your Career,
01:09:31 - Balancing Curiosity and Focus,
01:10:31 - Roadblocks to Career Success,
01:13:26 - Portfolio Rocket and Career Management

Timestamped summary of this episode (courtesy of Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show, 

Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and his guest, Loren Greiff. He highlights the importance of finding meaningful opportunities in the world of work and teases the unique approach Loren has taken to help executives and senior leaders discover hidden job opportunities.

00:03:02 - The Power of Genuine Connections, 

Dan and Loren discuss the narrow approach people often take when it comes to career and job searches. They emphasize the importance of making genuine connections and tapping into the secret job market to find careers that truly light people up.

00:05:58 - Loren Greiff's Journey, 

Loren shares her journey from being a marketer in New York City to transitioning to a client-side role in Chicago. She talks about the challenges she faced and how she eventually found her calling in recruiting. Her experience with anxiety and burnout led her to a path of helping others navigate their careers.

00:09:30 - The Disconnection Between Job and Personal Life, 

Loren reflects on her experience working in financial services and the disconnect she felt between her job and personal life. She emphasizes the importance of aligning career choices with personal priorities and needs.

00:13:57 - Finding Success in Recruiting, 

Loren discusses her transition into the recruiting field and how she excelled in sourcing and understanding the needs of creative professionals. She shares her passion for reading through job descriptions and helping companies find the right candidates.

00:16:08 - Making a Career Change, 

The guest describes her decision to leave her high-level role in finance and pursue a career in recruitment without much deliberation. She felt a level of certainty and alignment in her decision and enjoyed the work for a long time.

00:19:04 - A Crisis of Integrity, 

The guest shares her realization that she was out of integrity with the recruitment industry. She didn't feel morally or ethically at peace with the way the system worked, especially when it came to the overflow of candidates who didn't get the job.

00:21:04 - The Challenges of Recruitment, 

The guest discusses the challenges of being a recruiter, particularly the pressure to find the right candidates for clients and the lack of support for candidates who don't get the job. She expresses her concern about not having a solution for these candidates and not wanting to breed dependency on her.

00:23:25 - The Sad Reality of the System, 

The guest and the host share their frustrations with the recruitment system, where candidates who can't get a job through the system are often overlooked and not given another chance. They highlight the importance of teaching people the skills needed for a successful job search.

00:28:12 - Embracing Change, 

The guest reflects on her decision to leave the industry and emphasizes the importance of reaching a point where you understand that no one else will save you or change the situation for you. She encourages listeners to embrace the gift of desperation and take control of their own careers

00:33:35 - Rapid Technological Changes and Career Implications, 

The guest discusses how rapid technological changes, like the development of Chat GPT, can disrupt careers at all levels. She emphasizes the need to adapt and acquire skills that are either robot-proof or enable individuals to work alongside robots.

00:35:16 - The Problem with Landline Thinking, 

The guest introduces the concept of "landline thinking" and compares it to using a landline phone in today's mobile and connected world. She highlights how traditional approaches to job searching, like relying solely on resumes, may no longer be effective.

00:38:00 - Shifting Mindset and Identifying Problems, 

The guest advises against asking oneself, "What do I want to do next?" and encourages focusing on the problems one loves to solve instead. By identifying their contribution and impact, individuals can align their skills and interests with organizations that need their problem-solving abilities.

00:40:51 - Reconnecting with Purpose, 

Loren emphasizes the importance of reconnecting with one's why and using a simple formula: contribution + impact. She suggests revisiting one's purpose every six months to ensure it still aligns with personal values and passions.

00:46:32 - Niche and Career Management, 

The guest discusses the concept of finding a niche in one's career and how it relates to career management. She highlights the importance of identifying a target audience and catering to their specific needs and desires, especially for individuals looking to make a significant career change.

00:49:52 - Optimizing Your LinkedIn Profile, 

Loren discusses the importance of using LinkedIn as a landing page that converts and drives activity. She emphasizes the need to network and move online connections offline, sharing her "coffee strategy" of scheduling two networking calls per day, resulting in 40 connections each month.

00:51:59 - Building a Pipeline of Networking Conversations, 

Loren explains how consistent networking leads to a pipeline of conversations, highlighting that one out of every 15 referrals lands a job. She emphasizes the importance of quality over quantity and recommends coming prepared with three referrals for each networking call.

00:52:58 - Treating Your Career Like Your Health, 

Loren compares treating one's career to maintaining good health, emphasizing the need for consistency and taking proactive steps. She highlights the importance of networking even when not actively job searching, and encourages reaching out to old contacts and making genuine connections.

00:54:32 - Quality Networking vs. Superficial Connections, 

Loren discusses the difference between simply connecting with people on LinkedIn and building genuine connections. She emphasizes the need to invest time and effort in getting to know individuals before asking for favors or opportunities.

01:00:38 - The Hidden Job Market & Creating Opportunities, 

Loren explains that the hidden job market extends beyond unposted positions and includes creating or augmenting roles. She emphasizes the value of understanding a company's needs and offering unique solutions. She also highlights the importance of making relevant and genuine requests when reaching out to potential connections on LinkedIn.

01:07:17 - Lively and Spicy Conversation, 

The conversation on the podcast is described as lively and spicy. Swearing is allowed to keep listeners engaged. The focus is on debunking faulty beliefs and staying up to date with the ever-changing landscape.

01:08:13 - Embracing Change in Your Career, 

Mark Herschberg's "career toolkit" concept is mentioned, highlighting the importance of embracing change and being a futurist in one's career. Reading and staying informed are emphasized as ways to explore new opportunities and expand one's skill set.

01:09:31 - Balancing Curiosity and Focus, 

The speaker discusses the risk of being distracted by bright shiny objects and emphasizes the need to find a balance between exploring new interests and staying focused on one's current job. Personal experience and curiosity play a role in shaping one's career path.

01:10:31 - Roadblocks to Career Success, 

The main challenge mentioned is the roadblocks that hinder career progress, such as fear, imposter syndrome, and other mental barriers. Overcoming these obstacles requires transparency, support from others, and a flexible learning mindset.

01:13:26 - Portfolio Rocket and Career Management, 

The guest, Loren Greiff, introduces Portfolio Rocket as a solution for career management and highlights its focus on building a supportive community. The importance of mindset and owning one's career management is emphasized.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

On this week's episode, Dan sits down with salesman-turned- business coach, public speaker, entrepreneur, and author, John Gies. With a career spanning both time and distance (he's lived in 15 cities), John has helped small business owners and executives to communicate better by first understanding themselves. He and Dan talk about this broad topic of self-awareness, touching on neurochemistry, belief systems, storytelling, communications, and much more.

In this episode, Dan connects with leading thinker and practitioner in the emerging communications technology space and Founder of Point 600, Brittany Paxman. Dan and Brittany sit down to chat about the importance of strategic communications and the ways technology is enhancing that importance and changing the profession. They discuss how communications technology - CommTech - helps communicators and the businesses they serve. The entire conversation is loaded with practical takeaways for anyone interested in this evolving field.

Brittany Paxman dives headfirst into changing the world of communications. She is dedicated to bridging the gap between communications and technology to improve company functions and people's lives within the communications space. Tune in to learn more about the value of improving strategic communications by integrating technology to maximize consumer interactions, marketing, communications, sales, revenue, and other business interactions.

In This Episode

• (1:41) Why Dan has been so keen to speak with Brittany
• (3:51) Brittany dives into her background and getting into the Comm-Tech space and starting her own firm
• (13:03) The “chicken and the egg” situation of integrating technology into communications    
• (15:40) Why marketers understood the importance of technology integration sooner than communications experts 
• (22:00) The qualitative vs. quantitative difference for approaching technology between marketing and communications
• (28:40) The roles of communications that often go unnoticed
• (36:43) The mindset shift needed to embrace modernized communications
• (45:44) The value of a communicator as an informed consumer of data    
• (49:50) The framework for a modernized communicator ecosystem with CommTech  
• (1:00:20) The evolution of the communications space with technology integration 
• (1:09:24) Brittany’s and Dan’s suggestions for improving statistical prowess 
• (1:12:24) Brittany’s final words to Dan and the audience      

Notable Quotes

• “I really, at my core, believe in the power of communications to be a connector…Communications has such an important role, not just for organizations, but for society because it’s the connector. It’s the persuader, but it’s also the opportunity for that information exchange for knowledge, argumentation to happen between companies and people, and I believe that is incredibly important.” - Brittany (4:30)
• “I think alot of communicators are burnt out. It is a field where you can be working 24/7, where we deal with crisis communication, where we deal with some of the most important things a company does and says…I think there is an opportunity for data and technology to make it a more sustainable profession where excellent people can stya in the profession and that we don’t lose the talent to other areas…That’s sort of the other half of the reason I started my company. I wanted to help communicators to not only survive, but thrive.” - Brittany (6:14)
• “Relationships are the domain of communications, like real relationships that matter because the other thing about communications - reputation, right? Looking at reputation, [that’s our]...we are stewards of reputation. And as a steward of reputation, that’s where crisis and things come in, we really started looking at how people are talking about us.” - Dan (21:14)
• “When I explain what I think communications is to people who are not in this industry at all, I think communications is definitely top of the funnel - beginning of the journey. But comms is also responsible for relationships with everyone who is not a customer.” - Brittany (28:43)
• “In my mind, technology, the mindset shift is not that technology is going to do everything for us, but that it’s gonna take the stuff that’s super repeatable that we are wasting mental capacity on and help us with that so that the communicators can spend their time being strategists.” - Brittany (38:57)

About Brittany

Brittany Paxman is a leading expert and thinker in the emerging field of communications technology with her company Point 600. She emphasizes data analysis, process design, and technology consulting for communications to build long-term success. With her decade of experience in digital communications, she developed her principles of Systems-Thinking, Data-Driven, and Technology-Enabled. Armed with these principles, she works tirelessly to provide the framework necessary to help communicators not just survive, but thrive in the modern world.   

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

Brittany Paxman 

• Website: https://www.point600.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittanylpaxman/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/BrittanyLPaxman

In this episode, Dan connects with storyteller, media insider, creative entrepreneur, and fellow Penn Quaker, Adam Hertzog. A cable TV sports and entertainment trailblazer whose career began as a production assistant at ESPN in the 90s and led to nearly three decades of writing, production, and executive leadership at The History Channel, HBO, ESPN (again), NBC, and The Golf Channel, Adam is now President, Executive Producer, and co-founder of video and content production firm toldright, where he's breaking traditional broadcast business models and trailblazing yet again. He and Dan talk about the evolution of video and corporate storytelling, and go into depth about the foundational skill that trumps everything else: writing. 

In this episode, Dan connects with one of the leaders of The Connective, a lifelong learner, marketing expert, entrepreneur, and self-proclaimed “business mechanic,” Adrian Sasine. Dan and Adrian discuss intentionality and purpose in the professional sphere. 

Adrian considers himself an inventor of sorts, and for good reason. His undeniable drive to create innovative and successful businesses has led him through several marketing endeavors over the years and ultimately led him to the Head of Operations and Marketing role at The Connective. He’s also building a new connection platform called Nolodex, which he hopes will optimize connections by merging affiliate marketing, community management, and FinTech. Listen in to discover how he’s supporting the growth of The Connective and Nolodex and how you can create lasting connections with intention. 

In This Episode

• (3:02) Adrian shares his journey to The Connective and his philosophy surrounding marketing
• (9:04) Why The Connective is a unique networking group
• (13:26) How Joe and Adrian built and now run the Atlanta chapter
• (16:18) The role revenue plays in the decision-making process
• (18:25) Connecting vs. networking and the future of The Connective and Nolodex 
• (25:18) The need that Nolodex meets and how it merges affiliate marketing, community management, and FinTech 
• (30:55) Practical implementation of the software in a school or church setting
• (33:36) Why this new platform will optimize the efficiency and effectiveness of connections
• (37:47) LinkedIn and Discord as competitors 
• (42:02) The process of referrals on the Nolodex platform
• (43:26) How Adrian expects connection to evolve and how COVID influenced the corporate space  
• (46:06) The difficulty of connecting in a virtual environment 
• (51:26) Why the digital age can cultivate belonging as well as loneliness
• (55:59) Adrian’s hope for The Connective’s growth and community as an educational resource

Notable Quotes

• “Networking for most people is about, ‘What’s in it for me? I’m networking with you because I want something.’ And I’ve found that this group [The Connective] – very different.” – Adrian (8:21)
• “My personal mantra is push myself hard enough that I will fail. And when I do – and believe me, I have failed more than more people are willing to put themselves in that situation – it’s ‘fall forward.’ That’s my mantra. ‘Fall forward.’ You’re gonna screw up. It’s not all gonna go your way. As long as you learn from it and you take a step forward, great.” – Adrian (18:38) 
• “The difference between networking and connecting? Connecting is taking it a step forward. ‘How can I help you, getting to know you…’” – Adrian (20:35) 
• “My idea of what community really is is a baseline of people you are connected with, that kind of meaningful intent, that ‘OK I’m not here just to have a name. I’m here to actually get to know people in a certain way’… There’s some common ground and usually there’s several shared values as well.” – Dan (25:33)
• “It’s the relationship first, you know, and the business second, which is really important. But you always know that the business is there. People always ask with interest and intent what’s going on.” – Dan (59:25)

About Adrian 

Adrian Sasine is the co-founder of Nolodex and the Head of Operations and Marketing at The Connective. He has over 20 years of experience in marketing and business, and his entrepreneurial drive has fueled more than a few business ventures, which allows him to advise brands, business owners, and executives in company strategy and growth. Alongside his work at The Connective, he’s working on completing a platform called Nolodex, which will support connections across various communities. 

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

Adrian Sasine

• Adrian Sasine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/asasine 
• The Connective on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/theconnective 
• The Connective’s website: https://www.theconnective.me/ 
• Nolodex on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/nolodex

In this episode, Dan connects with coach, entrepreneur, life-long learner, and best-selling author of Mindset Mondays with DTK: 52 Ways to REWIRE Your Thinking and Transform Your Life, David Taylor-Klaus. David, aka DTK, is on a mission to help leaders and entrepreneurs to unearth and unleash personal mastery - and in our conversation, he puts me on the hot seat to help me do some of my own unleashing. With no shortage of humor and straight talk, we discuss mindset, life balance, competence, resistance, the difference between "have to" and "get to," and much more. David also talks about his REWIRE framework for shifting mindset and convinces me to get his book on the spot.

In this week's episode, Dan connects with career coach, public speaker, podcaster, and cancer survivor Kathy Keegan. With the aim of figuring out how to have fun at work, Dan and Kathy dig into the issues facing so many workers in our simultaneously disconnected and overconnected world. They talk about the importance of gathering, how "corporate osteoporosis" has diminished service and management capabilities, why workers are having a tough time being heard, and how ultimately mindset is the key to making the job you have work for you.

In this episode, Dan connects with scholar and organizational and leadership development practitioner, Dr. Tom Tonkin, to discuss authenticity and sincerity in the workplace and beyond. 

Authenticity is often lauded as a key quality in leadership, fostering trust and building strong relationships within an organization. However, the term itself can be misunderstood and difficult to pin down due to its connection to subjective feelings, emotions, and beliefs. Authenticity is self-referential; overemphasis can lead to issues in the workplace, as individuals may prioritize their own self-expression over the needs of their team or company. Instead, it is important to balance personal authenticity with a broader understanding of the context in which we operate – including the values, goals, and perspectives of others. 

Tom and Dan dig into this topic as Tom shares his insights into the problem of focusing too much on authenticity in leadership. He highlights the inherent subjectivity of authenticity, as one person's perception of honesty may differ from another's. Tom argues that while being true to oneself is important, it is equally necessary to consider how our actions and decisions impact others. How? By embracing sincerity, an other-centric approach, incorporating empathy and understanding to forge deeper, more meaningful connections with those around us.

Here's what you can expect from the show:

• Consider the implications of embracing authenticity in the workplace, especially when it comes to relationship-building and leadership.
• Reflect on the four dimensions of authenticity: internal morality, self-awareness, transparency, and balanced processing.
• Assess the alignment between your internal morality and the ethics of your workplace or industry.
• Develop a greater sense of self-awareness to better understand how your actions and decisions impact others.
• Practice transparency by openly sharing your thoughts, feelings, and motives with your colleagues or team members.
• Implement balanced processing by considering various perspectives and ideas when making decisions.
• Evaluate your leadership style and consider how incorporating authenticity might affect your ability to lead and engage with others.
• Be open to questioning and challenging accepted norms or ideas, such as the concept of authenticity in the workplace.
• Research and learn from academic studies and theories that can provide valuable insights into workplace practices and behaviors.
• Recognize that authenticity is not a one-size-fits-all concept and that individuals may interpret and apply it differently.

About Tom

Dr. Tom Tonkin is a renowned expert on authenticity and sincerity in leadership and communication, offering a unique behavioral perspective on these important topics. With a deep understanding of organizational and leadership development, Tom holds a doctorate in organizational leadership and has spent countless hours researching and analyzing the intricate dynamics of business relationships. He is the founder and CEO of Sales Conservatory, a company dedicated to helping individuals and organizations improve their leadership and communication strategies. Tom's wealth of knowledge and experience in this field, as well as his passion for sincerity, make him a sought-after authority on effective leadership and communication.

Notable Quotes

• “The more I did research on authenticity with the express purpose of relationship building, the more disillusioned I became.” – (2:06)
• “We can say words but it’s actually the recipient that brings those words to life.” – (19:58)
• “Honesty is the #1 trait of leadership.” – (29:15)
• “We don’t have enough honesty in our leadership ranks.” (34:12)
• “People say things like that’s my truth when the fact of the matter is there is only one truth. – (45:50)
• “Empathy is an association to feelings; sympathy is a disassociation.” – (1:01:13)

Resources and Links 

The Dan Nestle Show 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter

Dr. Tom Tonkin

• Dr. Tom Tonkin | Linkedin
• Dr. Tom Tonkin @DrTomTonkin | Twitter
• Thomas Tonkin | Facebook
• Tom Tonkin | 3Sixty Insights

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 
Dan Nestle introduces the topic of authenticity and questions its meaning in the workplace. He introduces the guest, Dr. Tom Tonkin, who has researched authenticity and offers a unique perspective on it.

00:03:09 - The Disillusionment with Authenticity,
Dr. Tom Tonkin explains his journey with authenticity and how his research on the topic led him to be disillusioned with it, especially in terms of relationship building in the workplace.

00:05:53 - The Context of Authenticity,
Dr. Tom Tonkin explores the context of authenticity, tracing its roots back to transformational leadership, and how authenticity can be self-referential, creating potential problems in relationship building.

00:09:16 - The Operational View of Leadership,
Dr. Tom Tonkin explains the operational view of leadership, which focuses on the force exerted on followers to achieve a common goal. He also discusses the concept of internalized morality and how it relates to authenticity.

00:16:07 - The Meaning of Authenticity,
Dan Nestle and Dr. Tom Tonkin discuss the meaning of authenticity and its importance in the workplace. They highlight the need to balance being true to oneself while also considering the needs of others and the company.

00:17:53 - Authenticity and Leadership Qualities,
Tom Tonkin and Dan Nestle discuss the difference between behaviors and qualities in terms of authenticity and leadership. They explore the concept of self-awareness and the importance of transparency and balance processing.

00:19:25 - The Meaning of Words and Authenticity,
Tom explains the importance of the meaning of words and how the recipient brings those words to life. He uses the example of authenticity in Mexican restaurants, where different restaurants have different authentic tacos. He emphasizes that authenticity is self-referential and varies from person to person.

00:25:01 - Honesty as a Key Leadership Trait,
Tom discusses how honesty is consistently ranked as the most important leadership trait in the book, The Leadership Challenge. He explores why honesty is so highly valued and suggests that it is because people want to trust their leaders and believe that they are on the right path.

00:29:09 - Honesty in Leadership,
Dan and Tom discuss the importance of honesty in leadership and how it relates to trust. They explore the idea that there is an honesty problem in many aspects of society, including politics and industry.

00:34:00 - Lack of Honesty in Society,
Tom suggests that the more plausible explanation for why honesty is consistently ranked as the most important leadership trait is that there is a lack of honesty in our society, especially in leadership positions. Dan and Tom agree that there is an honesty problem in many areas of society.

00:35:25 - The Problem with Honesty and Authenticity,
The conversation starts with a discussion on honesty and authenticity. The guest, Tom Tonkin, explains that honesty can mean different things to different people, and authenticity has the same problem. He also talks about how internal morality defines one's sense of honesty, and how it can differ from one person to another.

00:37:09 - Differentiating Authenticity and Sincerity,
Tonkin shares how he was initially disillusioned with the concept of authenticity and turned to sincerity. He defines sincerity as being other-centric and describes his three tenets of sincerity: empathy, purposeful altruism, and demonstrable affirmation. Tonkin also talks about the problem with the misuse of the words authenticity and sincerity.

00:43:46 - Empathy as the Key to Sincerity,
Tonkin explains how empathy is one of the core tenets of sincerity and how it plays a crucial role in decision-making. He also shares an example of how he had to lie to his mother, who had severe dementia, about her father's death, and how empathy played a significant role in his decision.

00:48:20 - The Importance of Standardizing Language,
Tonkin talks about the importance of standardizing language and the misuse of adjectives and adverbs that alter perception. He explains how words like bad and good can be problematic, as they are subject to interpretation, and how we need to have a standardization of concepts to understand reality objectively.

00:52: - The Continuum of Lies,
Tonkin talks about the continuum of lies, where a lie is acceptable if it causes no harm. He also refers to Sabrina Horn's book, "Make It, Don't Fake It," and how she explains the different kinds of lies and when they are acceptable. Tonkin concludes by emphasizing the importance of empathy and sincerity in decision-making.

00:53:15 - Defining Purposeful Altruism,
Tom Tonkin introduces purposeful altruism as a concept that goes beyond traditional altruism, which is often questioned for its true motives. Purposeful altruism aims to have a purpose behind the act of giving, with no expectation of receiving anything in return.

00:57:27 - Empathy and the Power of Noticing,
Tonkin emphasizes the importance of noticing in understanding empathy. He shares a story about how Alan Alda improved his empathy by noticing people and creating backstories about them. Tonkin highlights the power of empathy to change perspectives and connect with others.

01:02:07 - Demonstrable Affirmation,
Tonkin stresses the need for demonstrable affirmation to show sincerity. He suggests that actions speak louder than words and speaks about the importance of doing something to affirm beliefs and show empathy towards others.

01:03:27 - The Ethics of Sincerity,
Tonkin differentiates between ethics and morality and emphasizes that sincerity is an ethical play, aimed at bettering someone else's life within a social context. He notes that sincerity is not rainbows and unicorns but involves doing good and affecting good in a social context.

01:07:23 - Sincerity vs. Authenticity,
Tonkin contrasts sincerity with authenticity, noting that authenticity is focused on the self, while sincerity is focused on the other. While both may lead to good outcomes, sincerity takes a more direct path and is not focused on self-referential points.

01:09:12 - Authenticity vs. Sincerity,
Tom Tonkin and Dan Nestle discuss the difference between authenticity and sincerity. Tonkin argues that authenticity has been overused and has led to problems because people have different value sets. Sincerity, on the other hand, requires getting to know someone and understanding their values.

01:10:13 - The Paradox of Authenticity,
Tonkin and Nestle explore the paradox of authenticity. Tonkin argues that if being authentic takes work, then it's not authentic, and this is a paradox. He believes that we need to move away from the idea of bringing our authentic selves to work and focus on being trustworthy, transparent and demonstrating integrity.

01:17:01 - The Abstract Nature of Organizations,
Tonkin and Nestle discuss the abstract nature of organizations and how people often talk about things like "the organization thinks" or "leadership thinks" when really it's just the CEO or leadership team's opinions. Tonkin argues that it's important to personalize things and focus on individuals rather than abstract concepts.

01:19:45 - Empathy vs. Compassion,
Tonkin and Nestle discuss the difference between empathy and compassion. Tonkin argues that empathy is not always helpful, particularly in a therapeutic context, where a third-party view is often more beneficial. He believes that companies need to focus on interventions based on immutable facts rather than feelings.

01:25:06 - Building Policies based on Immutable Truths,
Tonkin argues that policies should be based on immutable truths rather than subjective feelings. For example, companies with boards that have men and women are more profitable than those with only men or only women. Tonkin believes that companies should focus on immutable facts to create policies that are good for business and their employees.

01:26:02 - Treating People Equally,
Tom and Dan discuss the importance of treating people equally regardless of race or gender. They also touch on the issue of diversity and inclusion, highlighting the importance of ensuring that qualified candidates are hired regardless of their background.

01:27:18 - Cognitive Truth vs. Feelings,
Tom and Dan dive into the concept of cognitive truth and sincerity versus authenticity. They question the validity of feelings as a basis for authenticity and suggest that sincerity is more important in the workplace.

01:28:13 - Book Publication,
Tom talks about his upcoming book and the process of negotiating with agents and publishers. He hopes to contribute to a healthy debate on the topic of authenticity and sincerity in the workplace.

01:29:24 - Immutable Truths,
Tom and Dan emphasize the importance of honest debate and discourse in society. They hope that people will continue to question ideas and grow, and that sincerity will become a more readily available concept in the workplace.

01:32:25 - Call to Action,
Dan encourages listeners to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast, and to share it with their friends. He thanks Tom for sharing his thoughts and contributing to a healthy debate on the topic of authenticity and sincerity in the workplace.

In this episode, Dan sits down with recruiter, marketer, and relationship builder Lynn Hazan, President of Lynn Hazan And Associates, a Chicago-based recruitment and consulting firm specializing in placing communications and marketing professionals nationwide. With an international, multicultural, and multilingual background, Lynn understands the value and importance of learning and empathy when bringing people together. In her case, it’s mainly for careers, but her lessons extrapolate across all facets of life. She and Dan discuss the importance of empathy, trust, and even creativity in building relationships that last a lifetime.

In this episode, Dan connects with entrepreneur, career coach, and author of Find Work Worth Doing: The Handbook for Creating a Meaningful Career, Jason Mutzfeld. A self-described raconteur and co-founder of Circle City Coaching, Jason's journey starts with theater, meanders through technology and education, and ultimately leads to career coaching and writing - but his love for the theatrical continues to be core to who he is and how he helps his clients. He and Dan dig into the difference between a career and a job, the gift of creativity, the power of curiosity and inquisitiveness, and much much more - wrapping up with a definitive statement of the supremacy of Gen X. Filled with humor and practical advice, this is a conversation you won't want to miss.

In this episode, Dan connects with Japan expert and founder of Ikigai Connections and Nihongojobs.com, the multilingual, multi-talented Kasia. A self-described "kakehashi" - bridge between cultures - Kasia is a "digital bridge" helping connect job seekers with jobs at Japanese companies or jobs where Japanese language is an asset. She and Dan talk about Japan, dig deep into ikigai and how it relates to reinvention, and later they do get into the vital and important topic of karaoke.

In this episode, Dan turns to some of his favorite topics with educator, communicator, coach, entrepreneur, and podcaster, Michael Piperno. Dan and Michael dig into what it takes to communicate better, and - spoiler alert - it has a lot to do with purpose. The conversation covers reinvention, vulnerability, remote work, nonverbal communication, and more as we learn about Michael's amazing journey from would-be actor to CEO of The Comvia Group and host of the Convey podcast.

In this episode, Dan connects with ICF certified coach, DISC assessment trainer, body language trainer, accent modification instructor, voice therapist, and LinkedIn super-connector. Elaine Jacques. She and Dan discuss how, during her long career as a speech pathologist, often working with terminal patients, she developed her superpower of communicating during life and death situations. They talk about how she honed that power as a coach, helping her clients cope with stress and, in the process, become even more amazing versions of themselves. Elaine also gives Dan some body language pointers and some LinkedIn profile photo tips that he has yet to act upon. 

In this episode, Dan connects with UK-based entrepreneur, speaker, educator, trainer, and LinkedIn expert Richard Moore. As the founder of the LinkedIn Client Accelerator and head of growth for Entrepreneur Business Live, Richard has helped hundreds of consultants, possibly thousands, to get clients on LinkedIn. And he does it without automation or any of the tactics so many of us despise--in other words, the right way. He and Dan discuss the “platform abuse” that seems to be rampant on LinkedIn, and what salespeople and marketers should be doing to reject this behavior and use the platform properly. As often happens on the show, we learn that it’s all about relationships, putting the work in, avoiding shortcuts, and having the right mindset.

In this episode, Dan connects with seasoned content marketer, communicator, search engine optimization (SEO) expert, author, strategist, and Web3 speaker Brian Piper. Dan and Brian sit down to chat about the basics of Web3 and why it’s the next step in the evolution of communication, expression, and innovative ownership. In the process they dig into the idea of community (they're both members of Mark Schaefer's RISE community) and how it has turbocharged their learning. 

We learn that Brian is a serial learner. Almost thirty years ago, he jumped into content marketing and SEO and began paving his career path simply because he had a burning interest in the field. As a well-known speaker and Web3 educator, those dedicated beginnings are still with him today, and he remains eager to continue learning and share his findings with others. With his upcoming book (available for preorder), Epic Content Marketing, Second Edition: Break through the Clutter with a Different Story, Get the Most Out of Your Content, and Build a Community in Web3, he breaks down storytelling, creation, and connection in this ever-evolving digital world. Tune in to learn more about how Web3 is ushering in a new age of marketing and creativity and helping to develop communities all across the globe. 

In This Episode

• (5:03) Brian’s introduction to Web3, Search Engine Optimization (SEO), and content strategy
• (14:36) The importance of trusting your instincts and skills
• (17:00) The evolution of connecting and networking in the professional world
• (22:13) How Web3, blockchain, and NFTs are revolutionizing efficiency, transparency, community, and ownership
• (30:51) The core elements of Web3 and how the transactions work
• (42:04) How to visualize and understand the contractual qualities of an NFT
• (50:10) How to control and protect your digital assets and why education on this topic is so important
• (58:57) Exploring the metaverse and understanding its impact and potential
• (1:10:37) The upcoming co-created book, Brian’s exciting new business ventures, and where to connect with him

Notable Quotes

• “You have a unique way because of your life experiences of communicating information that’s completely different than anybody else. And some people are just going to connect with you on that. And I think that’s really the fundamental, beginning point of community.” – Brian (16:28) 
• “(On NFTs) You can put whatever assets you want, whatever digital property you want to represent yourself in a wallet, and you can share that.” – Brian (26:28)
• “But really the coins (tokens) are serving as a kind of, almost as a social lubricant. Somebody does something nice in the community; they get rewarded with some coins (tokens). You want to have somebody help you promote your podcast; ‘I’ll give ya 50 coins (tokens).’ It’s a grand experiment, but that’s the way that brands could also think about using their coins (tokens).” – Dan (35:14) 
• “Typically the way that most experts define the metaverse – it’s a virtual, 3D, immersive environment that’s persistent, that stays there even if there’s no people in there, where you can have large groups of people come in and interact.” – Brian (1:01:16)
• “I really think the future of marketing is community. I see everything moving back from, ‘How big an audience do you have? How many people do you have following you?’ to ‘How connected is your community? How engaged is your community? How loyal and active and incentivized are your people?’” – Brian (1:15:21)

About Brian

Brian Piper is a seasoned marketer, search engine optimization (SEO) expert, author, speaker, strategist, and Web3 educator specializing in helping individuals and their businesses understand blockchain and digital exchange. He also knows digital content, data, and communication well after entering the industry almost thirty years ago. With his upcoming book, Epic Content Marketing, Second Edition: Break through the Clutter with a Different Story, Get the Most Out of Your Content, and Build a Community in Web3, he’s sharing the steps to begin optimizing your content to reach a greater audience and level of success. 

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

Brian Piper 

• Website: https://www.brianwpiper.com/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianwpiper/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flashpipe/ 
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/brianwpiper/ 
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brianwpiperllc/ 
• Discord: https://discord.com/invite/9evgkWx2Dw 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVjjnshrgifgPhkiHXegVXQ 
• Pre-Order Epic Content Marketing: https://www.amazon.com/Epic-Content-Marketing-Second-Different/dp/1264774451/ 

Want to stop wasting time and money on conferences that don't impact your business growth? Imagine being able to select conferences that not only boost your brand's influence but also drive strategic partnerships and sales. Fortunately, there's a solution that will help you achieve this and more. Let's dive in and take your conference strategy to the next level.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle is joined by guest Melanie Samba, the CEO of Sproxxy, a one-of-a-kind platform that helps corporate communication and marketing professionals make data-driven decisions for events and conferences. 

Dan and Melanie delve deep into the ever-evolving role of technology in marketing and communications, especially as it relates to the traditionally Excel-driven world of conference and event planning. Melanie discusses the challenges of promoting communications technology (also known as commstech or commtech) to investors and emphasizes the importance of integrating technology into corporate strategies. 

They discuss Sproxxy's State of Conferences report, highlighting the significance of conferences for business-building, industry influence, relationship-building, and networking, and how the use of data-driven tools like Sproxxy can help optimize conference strategies. Through their conversation, Melanie shares her experiences as a tech founder, the integration of AI in Sproxxy, and the platform's potential to predict industry trends and influence conferences. She highlights the use of AI to gauge audience engagement at events and the insights that can be derived from conference data. Melanie also reflects on the challenges and excitement of being a woman founder in tech, her journey with Sproxxy, and her vision for its future.

Listen in and hear…

• Data-driven AI-powered approaches to measuring the impact of conferences
• The significance of building relationships with conference organizers
• Business impact of speaking engagements at conferences
• The integration of technology into marketing and communication strategies
• Skepticism surrounding commstech and conveying its value to investors
• Inevitability of technology's role in shaping the future of all companies
• Efforts of communications professionals to advocate for the integration of technology
• Insights from Melanie's experiences as a tech founder

Resources & Links

Melanie Samba

• Melanie Samba | LinkedIn
• Sproxxy | Website
• Sproxxy | Twitter/X

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Timestamped summary for this episode (generated by Capsho, my AI assistant)

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Importance of Conferences 
Dan Nestle highlights the significance of conferences for learning, reputation building, and business development in the field of communication and marketing. He also acknowledges the anxiety and challenges associated with choosing the right conferences due to budget constraints.

00:01:39 - Leveraging Data-Driven Approach for Conference Selection
Melanie Samba, the CEO of Sproxxy, discusses the need for a data-driven, AI-powered approach to choosing conferences and measuring their impact on an organization. She emphasizes the importance of making informed decisions rather than relying on past experiences or emotions.

00:05:03 - Challenges of Managing Conferences
Melanie shares her experience in managing conferences for a pharmaceutical company, highlighting the complexities involved in coordinating over 400 employees' participation, ensuring regulatory compliance, and maintaining consistent messaging across the organization.

00:07:25 - The Underappreciated Role of Conferences in Corporate Communications
The conversation delves into the underappreciation of conferences in corporate communications, with Dan and Melanie discussing the budget allocation challenges and the perception of conferences as a nice-to-have rather than a strategic necessity for thought leadership and brand positioning.

00:14:39 - Evolution of Sproxxy from Idea to Product
Melanie shares the journey of transforming her initial idea of Sproxxy into a tangible product. She reflects on the pivotal moment when the pandemic led to the realization of the increased demand for events, prompting her to productize Sproxxy and pursue her entrepreneurial venture.

00:16:39 - The Rise of Virtual Events
Melanie discusses the explosion of virtual events during the pandemic, highlighting the shift in focus and the doubling of industry events to 1.8 million. She also shares her insights into how conference organizers adapted to the new landscape.

00:19:31 - Building Relationships in the Conference Space
Melanie talks about the importance of building relationships with conference organizers, similar to how relationships are built with the media. She explains how she developed these connections over time through her role in pitching executives and contributing to event programs.

00:22:44 - Importance of Community in Conferences
The discussion delves into the significance of being part of a community at conferences, with Melanie sharing her personal experience of meeting her corporate comms head at a conference in Portugal. The community aspect is highlighted as a key motivator for attending conferences.

00:25:57 - Engaging with Media at Conferences
Melanie sheds light on the presence of journalists at conferences and the opportunities they present for engaging with the media. She emphasizes the value of leveraging conferences as a platform for securing media coverage and building relationships with journalists.

00:33:07 - The State of Conferences Report
Melanie introduces the State of Conferences report, emphasizing its focus on the brand's perspective and the value it brings to understanding conference strategies. The report aims to provide insights into the current trends and perceptions surrounding conferences for marketers and agencies.

00:33:59 - Peer-to-Peer Insights on Conferences
Melanie discusses the importance of peer-to-peer insights for branding, marketing, and communications professionals in understanding what their peers are doing in the conference space. The report highlighted common issues such as managing conferences using Excel spreadsheets and the need for audience reach metrics.

00:36:56 - Differentiating Conferences and Trade Shows
Melanie differentiates conferences from trade shows, emphasizing the focus on thought leadership, branding, and strategic partnerships. She highlights the importance of audience reach as the number one metric for measuring success at conferences, as revealed in the report.

00:40:06 - Impact of Speaking Engagements
The report uncovered the increasing value of speaking engagements for executives and the business impact they have. Melanie discusses the importance of understanding the rationale for attending conferences and shares how Sproxxy provides insights on competitor activity at conferences.

00:44:01 - Refining Product Based on Customer Feedback
Melanie shares how the state of conferences report was used to refine the Sproxxy product, aligning it with the needs and challenges faced by marketing and communications professionals. She emphasizes the importance of developing a data-informed approach for attending conferences and measuring success.

00:49:40 - The Evolution of Comstech and Sproxxy
Melanie discusses the challenges of selling Comstech to investors and emphasizes the need for technology in every company. She reflects on her transition from corporate comms to developing Sproxxy and highlights the role of Comstech in enabling communicators to

00:50:59 - The Importance of Digital Communications and Marketing Integration
Melanie and Dan discuss the necessity for companies to integrate digital communication and marketing strategies. Melanie emphasizes the importance of being equipped with the right tools to remain relevant in the future.

00:52:52 - The Origins of Sproxxy and its Purpose
Melanie shares her journey of developing Sproxxy and its original purpose to prove the value of her work as a corporate comms professional. She highlights the need to have a data-informed approach and the role of AI in providing insights.

00:55:56 - AI Integration in Sproxxy and its Impact on the Industry
Melanie discusses the integration of AI in Sproxxy and its potential to predict conference topics, influence industry evolution, and gather insights on audience demographics. She emphasizes the power of AI to accelerate innovation and change the trajectory of an industry.

01:00:27 - Leveraging Sproxxy for Thought Leadership and Industry Influence
Melanie explores the potential of Sproxxy to predict conference topics, tailor thought leadership platforms, and influence the industry based on gathered data and insights. She highlights the role of communicators in shaping industry trends and influencing audiences.

01:02:28 - The Challenges and Excitement of Being a Woman Founder and the Future of Sproxxy
Melanie reflects on the excitement and challenges of being a woman founder and the unexpected growth of Sproxxy. She emphasizes the need for more solutions in corporate comms and marketing and encourages others to step up and provide the necessary help for the industry.

01:06:56 - Exciting Future for Listeners
Melanie expresses her excitement for the future of the listeners, emphasizing the potential for growth and success in their businesses.

01:07:22 - Where to Find Melanie
Dan and Melanie discuss where listeners can find Melanie online, including her website, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

01:07:54 - The Cutting Edge of Conferences
Melanie highlights the innovative functions and capabilities of Sproxxy.com, emphasizing its ability to help individuals understand and navigate complex conferences.

01:08:21 - Making Speakers Shine
The conversation focuses on the importance of helping speakers shine and exerting influence at conferences, positioning the podcast as a platform for discussing impactful communication strategies.

01:08:40 - Closing Remarks
Dan wraps up the episode, encouraging listeners to subscribe, share, and leave reviews, while also inviting potential future guests to reach out and be part of the show.

In this episode, Dan connects with human-centered problem solver, design thinker, LEGO Serious Play facilitator and creator of the Wearable Tracy pipe cleaner headdress, Lee Kim. Lee has designed and worn intricate hats or crowns made of pipe cleaners every day for years - she was even the subject of a New Yorker documentary because of it - and she and Dan discuss why and how this all came about. Lee's fascinating journey and her experiment in headwear have led her to become a magnet for curiosity and human connections. She's a living example of "Be curious, not judgmental" and a true source of joy.

In this episode, Dan connects with digital marketer, social media strategist, public speaker, storyteller, and content expert Lauren Fast, co-founder of Fast Bryant Consulting and brand strategist for Atomic Revenue. Together they explore Lauren's pioneering journey from teacher to beauty icon to empowered female business owner, and how she became a leading voice in marketing along the way. From the impermanence of rugs to chipped teacups, they cover a lot of ground exploring why marketing matters.

In this episode, Dan sits down with one of his heroes, a digital marketing expert, entrepreneur, prolific connector and builder of trust, the CEO of Digital Brand Expressions, Niki Fielding. Dan and Niki reflect on how relationships drive, well, pretty much everything. Niki talks about how, with relationships at the core of her business, she's been able to reinvent her company, hire incredible people, and help her clients to thrive. Niki pulls on some common threads - honesty, trust, authenticity - and teaches us about how she's taken the Japanese concept of omotenashi to heart.

In this episode, Dan connects with retail management expert, c-suite mentor, and founder of Global Recruiters of Lowcountry, Melissa Latham. Spending over three decades in retail, Melissa has seen and done everything from being a sales associate to becoming the retail vice president for Fortune 500 company Jockey International. She attributes her career success widely to the people she has hired and the teams she has built along the way. Ultimately her experiences with relationships and building connections inspired her to pivot into an all-new territory–recruitment.

And what a fertile ground it turned out to be. With the Great Resignation and other disruptions caused by the pandemic, Melissa saw an opportune time to tap the global talent pool. She and Dan talk about how the corporate landscape is changing with the rise of remote work, spotting an opportunity and going after it, sticking to your core values, and adapting to an evolving market.

In this episode

• 4:08 - Melissa's career journey
• 4:36 - Why recruitment?
• 11:06 - Collection vs. connection
• 28:25 - Using LinkedIn effectively
• 39:00 - Melissa on the evolving talent market
• 45:36 - Going remote
• 58:00 - Anticipating growth
• 1:02:30 - Creating impact by connecting

Notable Quotes

• "I think the network is a huge collection of people that you have some type of connectivity but its not deep, but you know you can reach out to them." - Melissa (09.12)
• "Be more interested than interesting" - Melissa (28.53)
• “Just jump in and make it happen. And all those things that you seem to be worried about? You find a way to overcome them.” - Melissa (7.33)

Resources and links

The Dan Nestle Show

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook

Melissa Latham

• Global Recruiters of Lowcountry
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/melatham/

In this episode, Dan connects with investor, turnaround expert, entrepreneur, and healthcare leader, Michael Lang. Mike built a successful career in healthcare by turning around struggling business units for companies like GE and McKesson. Now as founder and CEO of Nursecare.ai, Mike traded profit for purpose and is on a mission to fix the brokenness within our healthcare system. He and Dan go deep into leadership, purpose, and Mike's own recovery journey, fixing his own life and finding what matters.

In this episode, Dan welcomes back legendary communicator, connector, and executive coach to the PR industry, Ken Jacobs, for his second appearance on the show. Back in January 2021, he and Dan talked about leadership and purpose in the agency world. Now, with the pandemic in the rearview, has widespread indecision and inconsistency around remote work, hybrid work, and RTO (Return to Office) changed the nature of leadership and management?

Ken and Dan dig into some of the changes we’ve seen over the past few years and try to find some answers. Ken walks us through the nuances of building a team in a remote setting and why managers still must be able to build and manage teams effectively. Remote working doesn’t seem like it’s going away anytime soon, even as some organizations push for a return to more traditional work settings. No matter what organizations are doing, though, the past few years have highlighted the importance of connection and connectedness for effective leadership - and we need a new playbook.

 In this episode, you will be able to:

• Uncover the ever-progressing dynamics of leadership within the context of the PR industry in a fluctuating global environment.
• Navigate the ins and outs of remote work and running teams virtually in a post-pandemic world.
• Find the balance between granting autonomy, instilling trust, and avoiding micromanagement in a team-centric setting.
• Gain insight into the pivotal role of AI and other groundbreaking technologies in reshaping the PR industry.
• Appreciate why adopting a learning attitude and making learning a lifetime habit stands as a key cornerstone of successful leadership.

Notable Quotes:

• “I think this whole notion of connecting more and wanting to connect more and wanting more time together is partly due to the lockdown and also, they want to spend time with people who are natural connectors.” – (3:17), Ken
• “Coaching isn’t what we do; it’s who we are.” – (5:46), Ken
• “Make your office a magnet, not a mandate.” – (16:00), Ken
• “It (remote working for PR) can be done. Can it be done better working together? Probably” – (18:58), Ken
• “Is the team really a team if they’re not together?” – (22:24), Dan
• “Every time you say it’s hard for me or I’m not good at, add the word … now.” – (30:30), Ken
• “You don’t have to be a neuroscientist to use the neuroscience.” – (31:40), Ken
• “When we say I wonder how that would feel, we actually start to feel it.” – (34:21), Ken
• “We don’t realize it but many people who work for us, our followers, have a vision.” – (36:20), Ken
• “It feels like the need for certain leadership attributes are on steroids.” – (41:05), Ken
• “You’ve got to act in a trustworthy manner no matter the consequences.” – (42:23), Ken
• “When you look at your past be very mindful to not judge yourself too harshly.” – (46:40), Ken
• “It’s really important that you’re nurturing and not micromanaging.”  (51:31), Ken
• “One thing AI cannot do is mimic or replace emotional intelligence and empathy and trust.” – (1:01:13), Dan
• “This notion of lifetime learning is absolutely critical.” – (1:04:55), Ken

About Ken Jacobs

Ken Jacobs is the principal of Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching, leveraging his expertise for over a decade to bolster agency growth, client relations, and staff performance. A recognized coach and consultant, Ken holds PCC credentials from the International Coach Federation and additional accreditations from iPEC, including CPC, ELI Master Practitioner, and CLDS. His rich experience encompasses collaborations with top-tier communications agencies such as Catalyst, Coyne Public Relations, and M Booth, to name a few. Before founding his firm, Jacobs dedicated 25 years to leadership roles in renowned PR agencies, notably spearheading the award-winning "MMC Masters" training program at Marina Maher Communications. Beyond his consulting, Ken shares insights in his "Taking The Lead" column for PRSA's Strategies and Tactics. An alumnus of Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School, he's also an honored member of PRSA, and a Senior Counselor to Prosper Group.

Ken Jacobs Links

• Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching
• Ken Jacobs - Twitter
• Ken Jacobs - Facebook
• Ken Jacobs – Linkedin

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

00:01:48 - Connecting with Natural Connectors, 

00:06:07 - Coaching During the Pandemic, 

00:10:12 - Accelerated Change and Returning to the Office, 

00:13:32 - In-Person Energy and Coordination, 

00:15:56 - The Importance of Making the Office a Magnet, not a Mandate, 

00:16:42 - Challenges of Remote Work and Real Estate, 

00:18:30 - The Value of In-Person Collaboration, 

00:19:51 - Leadership in a Remote Work Environment, 

00:25:34 - Expectations Gap and Hiring Talent, 

00:33:02 - The Relief of a Fresh Perspective, 

00:34:16 - Customizing Leadership Styles, 

00:36:11 - Building Trust and Connection, 

00:42:58 - The Challenges of Virtual Leadership, 

00:50:40 - The Importance of Nurturing Relationships in a Remote Work Environment, 

00:53:19 - Setting Clear Expectations and Deadlines, 

00:56:25 - Embracing AI and the Importance of Integration, 

01:00:50 - Approaching AI with a Growth Mindset, 

01:04:51 - The Importance of Lifetime Learning and Staying Relevant, 

01:07:29 - Learning About AI, 

01:08:12 - The Future of AI, 

01:08:59 - Pivotal Person in Life, 

01:10:49 - LinkedIn as the Platform of Choice, 

01:14:35 - LinkedIn Fails and Harassment

Timestamped summary of this episode, courtesy of Capsho:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

Dan Nestle introduces the podcast episode and welcomes back Ken Jacobs, a former PR agency executive and leadership expert. They discuss the importance of pivotal moments and the role of people in those moments.

00:01:48 - Connecting with Natural Connectors, 

Ken Jacobs talks about the desire to connect more with people who are natural connectors and how it transcends age. He emphasizes the importance of helping one another and how the lockdown during the pandemic accelerated the need for connection.

00:06:07 - Coaching During the Pandemic, 

Ken Jacobs shares his experience as a coach during the pandemic and how he continued coaching even when clients couldn't pay. He highlights the importance of purpose-driven work and how emotional intelligence and empathy helped people thrive during challenging times.

00:10:12 - Accelerated Change and Returning to the Office, 

The conversation shifts to the accelerated change brought on by the pandemic and the impact on work culture. They discuss the mixed approach of remote and in-office work and the need to reevaluate the purpose of going to the office. Ken emphasizes the importance of using in-person time effectively.

00:13:32 - In-Person Energy and Coordination, 

Ken and Dan discuss the energy that comes from in-person interactions and the need to find a balance between remote and in-office work. They highlight the importance of coordinating in-person time to brainstorm and collaborate effectively.

00:15:56 - The Importance of Making the Office a Magnet, not a Mandate, 

Ken Jacobs emphasizes the need for companies to give employees a reason to come back to the office beyond just basic perks like Taco Tuesday. Making the office a place for collaboration and idea generation is crucial, but it must be done in a way that respects individual preferences and safety concerns.

00:16:42 - Challenges of Remote Work and Real Estate, 

Many companies had to downsize their office spaces during the pandemic due to financial constraints. However, finding the right balance of remote work and in-person collaboration remains a challenge. Different industries and organizations have unique needs and must determine what approach works best for them.

00:18:30 - The Value of In-Person Collaboration, 

In agencies, where brainstorming and collaboration are vital, being physically present can enhance creativity and energy. While virtual collaboration is possible, the magic often happens when diverse teams come together in person. However, organizations must be mindful of including remote team members to ensure everyone feels connected.

00:19:51 - Leadership in a Remote Work Environment, 

Great leaders must be empathetic, good listeners, and understand that it is impossible to please everyone. Balancing the needs and preferences of team members who want to work remotely or in the office requires careful consideration. Dialing up empathy and seeking feedback from employees are essential for effective leadership.

00:25:34 - Expectations Gap and Hiring Talent, 

The expectations gap between agencies and employees spread across different locations has grown

00:33:02 - The Relief of a Fresh Perspective, 

The conversation explores the feeling of relief and a breath of fresh air that comes with challenging preconceived notions and adopting a learner's mindset in leadership. It emphasizes the importance of self-growth and highlights the motivation that comes from imagining how achieving new perspectives and growth would feel.

00:34:16 - Customizing Leadership Styles, 

The discussion delves into the significance of customizing leadership styles for each team member. It emphasizes the importance of understanding their values, vision, and learning styles to create alignment and motivation within the team. Taking the time to think about individual team members before interactions can greatly impact their engagement and fulfillment.

00:36:11 - Building Trust and Connection, 

The conversation emphasizes the need for leaders to build trust and connection with their team members. This involves understanding their values, vision, and role in achieving the group's goals. By creating alignment between the organization's values, the leader's values, and the individual team members' values, leaders can foster a sense of belonging and fulfillment in their team.

00:42:58 - The Challenges of Virtual Leadership, 

The discussion explores the challenges of building relationships and trust in a virtual work environment. It highlights the need for leaders to demonstrate courage, bravery, and trustworthiness, as well as to act as a source of stability and certainty during uncertain times. The importance of leading with empathy, emotional intelligence, and trust is emphasized, particularly in an unpredictable world.

00:50:40 - The Importance of Nurturing Relationships in a Remote Work Environment, 

In a remote work environment, leaders need to be proactive in nurturing relationships to prevent complacency and maintain strong bonds within the team. Building trust and rapport is crucial, and leaders should focus on nurturing rather than micromanaging their employees.

00:53:19 - Setting Clear Expectations and Deadlines, 

Leaders should have open and honest conversations with their team members about assignments, deadlines, and expectations. It is important to establish a contract where both parties agree on what success looks like and communicate any challenges or struggles early on.

00:56:25 - Embracing AI and the Importance of Integration, 

AI is becoming increasingly important in the PR industry, and leaders should embrace it as a tool to enhance their work rather than fear it. Integration is also crucial, as PR professionals should explore how different channels and platforms can work together to maximize impact.

01:00:50 - Approaching AI with a Growth Mindset, 

Instead of approaching AI with fear, leaders should have a growth mindset and view it as an opportunity to learn and improve their practice. AI can automate certain tasks, allowing professionals to focus on higher-value work and think of new ways to contribute.

01:04:51 - The Importance of Lifetime Learning and Staying Relevant, 

Staying relevant in any field requires a commitment to lifetime learning. Professionals should continuously seek to expand their knowledge and skills to adapt to changing technologies and industry trends. Relevance is key to

01:07:29 - Learning About AI, 

The guest expresses fascination with AI and how it can lead to deep exploration and questioning of what is true. They also express nervousness about being asked about their use of AI in their coaching practice in the future.

01:08:12 - The Future of AI, 

The guest speculates about the possibility of speaking with an AI-generated simulacrum of the host in the future. They express their love for having conversations like these and the importance of maintaining a learner's mindset.

01:08:59 - Pivotal Person in Life, 

The host expresses gratitude for the guest being a pivotal person in their life and discusses the importance of maintaining a learner's mindset as they move forward. They provide information on how to find the guest on LinkedIn and their website.

01:10:49 - LinkedIn as the Platform of Choice, 

The guest discusses their decreased activity on Twitter and their preference for LinkedIn as a platform for professionals to connect. They also mention the annoyance of receiving LinkedIn messages from non-certified coaches.

01:14:35 - LinkedIn Fails and Harassment, 

The host and guest discuss the humor in sharing LinkedIn fails and their experiences with fake profiles and spam messages. They acknowledge the entertainment value but also express frustration with the harassment.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

….and we’re back! Welcome to the first episode of The Trending Communicator. Dan Nestle reignites the airwaves with an electrifying new episode that will teach you how to think faster and talk smarter with communication expert, Stanford professor, author, and podcaster, Matt Abrahams.

Dan and Matt explore the nuances of effective communication and impromptu speaking. They discuss the importance of mindset, active listening, and structured communication in professional settings. Matt shares practical strategies, such as managing anxiety with academically verified techniques, reframing speaking situations as opportunities, and adopting a growth mindset. 

They highlight the use of storytelling and structured frameworks like the Problem-Solution-Benefit method and the hero's journey to craft compelling narratives. The episode also addresses cultural communication differences, the significance of audience-centric approaches,  and some thoughts on how AI might affect our approach to impromptu speaking. The conversation provides actionable advice for enhancing communication skills across various contexts.

This riveting conversation isn't just talk; it's a blueprint for revolutionizing your communication skills across every domain. 

Listen in and hear…

• The importance of effective communication and storytelling
• Managing anxiety and building confidence in speaking
• Reframing spontaneous speaking situations as opportunities
• Mindset shifts for successful impromptu speaking
• Techniques for adopting a growth mindset
• Improving listening skills through pace, space, and grace
• The role of structure and focus in effective communication
• Using frameworks and structures for impactful communication
• Challenges of communication in different cultural and professional contexts
• How AI might affect impromptu speaking
• Structured approaches to pitching ideas

Notable Quotes

• [12:27] - “Most people, up to 85% of people, report being anxious in high-stakes situations.” - Matt Abrahams
• [22:28] - “When something doesn't go the way you want it to, simply say to yourself, 'Not yet.'” - Matt Abrahams
• [25:46] - “Getting inside your head is such a big one, and I think if people pick up one thing from this, it's to get out of your own way.” - Dan Nestle

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Matt Abrahams

• Matt Abrahams | Website
• Matt Abrahams | LinkedIn
• Matt Abrahams | YouTube

Mentioned Books

• Think Faster, Talk Smarter by Matt Abrahams
• Speaking Up Without Freaking Out by Matt Abrahams

Timestamped summary of this episode (thanks to Capsho, my AI assistant)

00:00:00 - Introduction and Personal Experience 
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and shares his personal experience of using Matt Abrahams' book to improve his communication skills in a workshop.

00:09:20 - The Six-Step Methodology
Matt Abrahams explains the six-step methodology for speaking on the spot, focusing on reducing anxiety and striving for connection over perfection.

00:12:51 - Managing Anxiety
Matt Abrahams discusses the two-pronged approach to managing anxiety - managing symptoms and managing sources. He shares techniques for symptomatic relief, such as deep belly breathing and purposeful movement.

00:13:37 - Overcoming Anxiety in Public Speaking
Matt Abrahams provides tips for overcoming anxiety in public speaking, including purposeful movement and embracing the adrenaline response. He emphasizes the importance of managing anxiety to improve communication effectiveness.

00:13:55 - Overcoming Anxiety and Nervousness
Matt shares techniques to reduce anxiety while speaking, including leaning in, holding something cold, and focusing on audience connection.

00:15:23 - Anxiety Management Plan
Dan shares his anxiety management plan called PITS, and discusses the importance of finding mindset hacks to overcome challenges and setbacks.

00:17:55 - Seeing Opportunities
Matt discusses reframing situations as opportunities rather than threats, and how this mindset shift can benefit communication and collaboration.

00:19:16 - Importance of Listening
Matt emphasizes the importance of active listening to understand the bottom line and respond appropriately, highlighting the impact of deep listening on effective communication and insight.

00:25:31 - Mindset and Next Play
Dan and Matt discuss the significance of mindset in communication, particularly the "not yet" and "next play" approaches to adopt an opportunistic mindset and avoid rumination.

00:27:46 - The Importance of Listening Deeply
Matt Abrahams discusses the impact of not listening deeply and shares a three-step approach to improve listening skills: pace, space, and grace. He emphasizes the need to slow down, create mental space, and give oneself permission to pay attention to not just the words but also the underlying messages.

00:29:52 - The Art of Unspoken Communication
Matt highlights the importance of listening for what's unsaid, referencing a hypothetical scenario where the unspoken message was "I just had a bad time in there." He emphasizes the need to pay attention to non-verbal cues and intuition.

00:33:19 - The Power of Structure in Communication
Matt explains the significance of structuring messages in a logical way for better understanding. He introduces the concept of problem-solution-benefit and emphasizes the need for concise communication to deliver a clear message.

00:36:01 - The Impact of Personal Mindset on Communication
Matt and the host discuss the mindset and personal tendencies that influence communication, such as the tendency to engage in "clock building" by providing unnecessary details. They also touch upon the impact of deference in communication, especially in hierarchical settings.

00:39:13 - The Value of Frameworks in Communication
Matt highlights the benefits of using frameworks in communication, comparing it to having a map that guides the direction of the conversation. He shares a personal experience of using structure to deliver impromptu presentations and emphasizes the relief it brings in

00:41:50 - The Power of Table Topics in Communication
Matt Abrahams discusses the benefits of table topics in improving impromptu speaking skills, drawing on his experience in Toastmasters. He emphasizes the value of being able to respond effectively to questions and situations.

00:43:45 - Importance of Knowing Your Audience
Dan Nestle and Matt Abrahams highlight the significance of knowing one's audience in communication. They stress the need for communicators and marketers to be audience-centric and focused on the needs of their listeners, whether in a formal presentation or informal conversation.

00:46:02 - Practical Applications for Communicators and Marketers
Matt Abrahams discusses the practical applications of communication methodologies for marketers and communicators. He emphasizes the importance of various communication skills, including pitching, small talk, and feedback, in influencing and engaging an audience.

00:48:19 - Structuring a Compelling Pitch
Matt Abrahams shares a four-sentence structure for crafting a powerful pitch, using the example of pitching a whiteboard. He explains how the structure incorporates elements such as a hook, relevance, concreteness, and demonstrating the broad impact of the idea or product.

00:53:00 - Impacts of AI on Impromptu Speaking
Dan Nestle raises the question of whether AI poses a threat to impromptu speaking skills. Matt Abrahams discusses his agnostic yet optimistic view on the potential impact of AI on communication, highlighting both its benefits and concerns.

00:57:00 - Embracing Humanity
Matt encourages embracing human communication over potential future technological implants, urging listeners to prioritize improving their communication skills.

00:57:41 - Repetition, Reflection, and Feedback
Matt emphasizes the importance of repetition, reflection, and feedback in improving spontaneous communication, highlighting the need for practice, self-assessment, and guidance from others.

00:58:19 - Free Resources
Matt directs listeners to his website for free resources and encourages them to check out his book and podcast for further communication improvement.

00:58:56 - Gratitude and Contact Information
Dan expresses gratitude to Matt for joining the show and initiating the next phase, while Matt offers to return and wishes Dan luck. They also provide contact information for further engagement.

00:59:21 - Conclusion and Call to Action
Dan concludes the episode, inviting listeners to subscribe, share, leave a review, and reach out with guest ideas or interest in appearing on the show.