The Procurement Conversation (Rich Sains)

This week, we're tackling the Procurement Talent Shortage, what it is and how we can fix it.

Rising inflation is all over the news - how can we in procurement help our organisations to mitigate the impact of this on the bottom line?  Our panel is joined by Tracey Giblin Kelly who is a chartered accountant and finance director of Kavita's business, Novo-K.  Tracey gives the finance view on inflation - we also touch on the relationship between finance and procurement, and how we can build better understanding and co-operation between the functions.

In this episode we ask 'Why is Digitising Procurement so Hard?'

The secret is that it isn't really - but over many years we have invested much time and money in programmes which have been poorly adopted and haven't landed.

What can we do differently to turn this around and realise the benefits that digitisation can bring?

Kavita, Martin and I are joined by Steve Day, CPO of Kantar to learn more about what Kantar are doing, why digital transformation is an unhelpful term and what lessons we can learn from past failures.

Want to speed up your Procurement Processes?

Over the last couple of years business has been speeding up - but procurement is getting more and more bogged down with addition process work.  Getting slower isn't an option, so how can we speed up procurement?

That's the question we're tackling this week and one way to approach this is through lean-agile procurement.

The Procurement Conversation is joined by CIPS Award winner Mirko Kleiner (co-founder of Flowdays) to talk about speeding up Procurement using the Lean-Agile methodology.

Procurement has had a frantic couple of years, dealing with many challenges that we may have previously had to face once in a career, seemingly every few months.  With many teams feeling the strain, something must give. So what should we stop doing?

The Procurement Conversation panel is joined by Procurement Protagonist Tom Mills to get his views as to what we should stop doing.

Alex Gosney from Nutral joins us to discuss how we can ensure that our supply chains use ethical labour.

A fireside chat with David Loseby, to talk about the often forgotten side of Digital Transformation - people.

This week I'm joined by Peter Smith, author of Bad Buying, co-author of Procurement with Purpose, Procurement Expert and former CPO.  His books are excellent and available through all good bookstores.

I asked Peter:

Why Procurement?

Is the interpersonal side of Procurement more or less important now?

What do you do in your spare time?

About reusing festival camping equipment - how this links to general consumption habits.

Sustainable Procurement - how can we achieve this when companies are still focused on growth and consumption?

Is industry rising to the challenge of sustainability?

Did covid cause Procurement with Purpose to be sidelined or thrive?

Is extreme weather getting the public to think again on sustainability?

Is Bad Buying 2 on the horizon?

Is there more bad buying or do we just hear about in more?

What important truth about Procurement do very few people agree with your on?

What does the future hold for procurement?

About the cyclical nature of procurement

Which book has changed your thinking about procurement most?

I talk to Tom Mills on his passion for Procurement, building a following on Social Media, his favourite Music and what the future holds for Procurement.

Tom can be found:

https://procurementprotagonist.substack.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-mills-procurement/

This week I talk to Andrew Newnham, CPO of M&S and we cover:

* How Procurement can drive strategy
* What skills he looks for in his team
* Balancing risk mitigation with getting stuff done
* What he thinks the future holds for Procurement
* The book that has most influenced his career

This week I talk to Simon Geale, CPO of Proxima and we talk about:

* Early jobs missing from his CV
* What it's like being a CPO responsible for marketing
* The biggest issues CPOs face right now
* What Proxima is working on and what skills they are looking for
* What Procurement needs to change to meet its potential
* How we should all be a bit more like Mick Jagger.

If you enjoy the podcast, do like and share and drop me a line with CPOs you would like to hear from in future episodes.

Nick Jenkinson is Santander's Interim CPO reaching the end of a 2-year transformation programme.  In this episode we talk about:

* His approach to making sure new tech lands
* His main objectives in his transformation programme
* Why digital transformation is so difficult
* How we get the right balance between risk mitigation and agility
* What he wants his CEO to know about procurement

This week we're joined by Roger Davies,  CPO from M&S, John Lewis and deliveroo - a great selection of British institutions.

I spoke to Roger about:

• The most important thing he learnt in his career
• His leadership philosophy
• What skills we need for the future of procurement
• What does the future hold for procurement
• What he dislikes about procurement
• Which book changed your thinking about procurement
• How Procurement has changed in the past 30 years

This week I spoke to Lauren Richards, CPO at Amazon Fresh. 

We covered:

• The one thing she wants her CEO to know about proc
• How she defines and measures success for her team
• If there is a talent shortage or is it an excuse 
• What the future holds for procurement
• What's her biggest mistake and what she learnt
• Which book changed her thinking about procurement

This week I speak to Tim Snow, Vice President Procurement, Commercial Contracts, Insurance and Sustainability at Inmarsat.

Given Tim has a wider commercial role including areas not traditionally in the procurement remit, I asked him:

* How he balances his procurement responsibilities with a broader role.
* What advice he would give to other procurement professionals looking to expand their roles and make a broader impact within their organisations
* About his management philosophy
*The skills he thinks we need for the future of procurement
* His biggest mistake and what he learnt

This week I speak to Richard Jamison, Head of Procurement and Property at Grant Thornton UK. 

We speak about:

1. His journey transitioning from IT to procurement and how this background in IT influenced his approach to procurement.
2. Starting up a greenfield procurement function.
3. How he has built relationships with key stakeholders across the organisation.
4. What role he thinks technology plays in procurement today
5. His management philosophy.
6. How he creates a coaching environment in his business.
7. How he helps his team members develop
8. The advice he would give to someone who is considering a career in procurement.

Welcome to the first of our Big Conversation series.  We're talking about the biggest topics currently facing procurement and the first one is a massive one.

Why are only 25% of senior leaders in Procurement female? And why are those leaders paid 25% less than their male counterparts in the UK?

Rich talks to Laura Scarfe and Sharon Morris about this, and look at what we can do to change this for the benefit of our organisations.

• 0:01 - Intros
• 2:10 - What the data says about gender diversity at a senior level in procurement
• 2:52 - Why do the panel feel that the gender balance in procurement has been slow to change, especially at the senior level?
• 5:27 - What skills or qualities do women bring to the profession?
• 9:07 - What are the issues that women face more generally in the workplace?
• 13:02 - How can organisations create a more inclusive and supportive environment for women to excel in procurement and reach leadership roles?
• 17:36 - How can men help?
• 21:56 - What initiatives are you working on that aim to advance the cause of women in procurement leadership?
• 25:35 - What mentorship or networking opportunities have you found to be particularly beneficial for women looking to advance their careers in Procurement?
• 28:07 - What would you say the future looks like for Procurement, especially in relation to more diverse teams?
• 31:59 - Good books or resources for those wanting to find out more
• 34:37 - Where can people find you or contact you?

This week we're covering 'soft' skills - but perhaps 'Super Skills' is a more appropriate name for how these skills can impact Procurement.

The return on investment in developing these skills is massive on a personal, professional and organisational level.

Rich talks to Barry Holmes who has spent the last 20 years helping Procurement teams to transform the way they work from low value, operational functions, to high value, strategic functions through a focussed investment in soft skills.

They talk through the main skills of communication, influencing, teamwork, problem solving, being data driven, networking, resolving conflict,  strategic thinking, responsibility and creativity.

It's a great conversation for those looking to transform their career or their team's delivery.

Following on from part 1 of this episode, Sharon and Rich are joined by Mary Ann Sieghard, author of 'The Authority Gap - Why women are still taken less seriously than men and what we can do about it'.

The book details the bias that is still pervasive in society and workplace, how this impacts women and what we can do to change it.

It is a must read - especially for men - and especially in Procurement, where the gender gap persists.

The Authority Gap - Why women are still taken less seriously than men and what we can do about it is available in all good bookshops - with further details at Mary Ann's website:

https://www.maryannsieghart.com/the-authority-gap/
https://www.theauthoritygap.com

• 0:39 - What is the Authority Gap?
• 1:50 - How did you find writing it - infuriating or cathartic?
• 2:25 - since it was published do you see things getting better or worse?
• 3:30 - how are women of colour further discriminated against?
• 5:14 - will the elevation of procurement into a more strategic, collaborative discipline suit female leaders more?
• 6:35 - CFO’s often hire senior procurement leaders and may have a stereotypical view of what a CPO should be.
• 7:14 - skills that women bring to Procurement - the shift brings
• 7:54 - How can women in Procurement overcome gender bias and stereotypes to advance into leadership roles?
• 11:34 - What strategies can organizations implement to ensure equal access to career development opportunities for women in Procurement?
• 13:35 -  why aren't women being listened to, when they have real potential to add value to their organisation?
• 16:13 - How can women help other women and how can men help women to succeed?
• 18:07 - Are people bad at chairing meetings to make sure all voices are heard?
• 18:38 - How can we avoid things going backwards?
• 20:52 - Should we be hopeful?
• 21:21 - Where can we get the book?

So you are starting a Procurement Technology implementation but you don't have a team?

Which roles are vital for success, who are these people and where can we find the best?

Rich is speaking to Joël Collin-Demers in a two-way interview about our experiences working with the best in the Procurement Technology space.

We talk about which roles we would have on an ‘all-star’ ProcureTech project team.

• First we define a ProcureTech implementation
• How we would craft a project team
• What makes a good ProcureTech:
  •  Project sponsor
  • Project manager
  • Implementation functional lead/team and how many we may need
  • Subject Matter Expert
  • Implementation technical lead/Team and how many we may need
  • Implementation data lead
  • Change management lead
• We also cover some other roles we might need depending on the scope of the project

This week we're talking about the Procurement Talent Wars - the battle for great talent within the function. 

Rich is speaking to Ben Paynter, Procurement Director at Burberry and Martin Smith, owner and founder of the Talent Group and host of Talent Talks podcast to get their inside perspective on the war for talent within our profession.

We cover:

• 0:44 - How the UK recruitment market is - as of December 2023
• 2:12 - We’ve been hearing about a talent shortage for a few years now - how does a procurement leader see it?
• 5:31 - What are the key skills procurement leaders are looking for and what are the hot categories?
• 8:00 - Gap between leading vs simple involvement in activities which candidates put on their CVs
• 10:29 - Migration from perm to interim in IT category at a certain level.
• 12:10 - Is IR35 still having an impact?
• 13:47 - Lack of graduate schemes and talent development
• 16:18 - Confusion over procurement job titles and job descriptions
• 17:53 - Which teams are getting hiring talent right and what are they doing?
• 22:01 - Are there many truly strategic teams out there or are many just talking a good game?
• 25:25 - How much do candidates want to work with a strategic function vs greenfield or brownfield?
• 27:19 - What has the in office, wfh or hybrid position settled on?
• 28:46 - Is there a difference between age or experience level as to willingness to return to office?
• 30:50 - Importance of water cooler moments / maximising value of office time
• 32:11 - Is there anything that candidates should be doing that they are not?
• 36:03 - Annoying practices: Recruiters
• 40:15 - Annoying practices: Hiring managers
• 41:33 - Annoying practices: Candidates
• 46:33 - Importance of feedback

This week we’re looking at why Procurement suffers from dodgy data - how it affects the function and what we can do to solve it.

Rich is joined by Susan Walsh - the Classification Guru and Natasha Brown Group Procurement Director of Harland & Wolff.

We cover:

• 0:46 - Why does Procurement suffer from dodgy data?
• 10:53 - What are the key steps in cleansing your data?
• 13:11 - Examples of where poor data has affected procurement decision making
• 15:43 - Importance of being data driven as a core procurement soft skill
• 17:46 - AI vs humans in the next phase of data management
• 21:58 - How do we foster a data driven culture?
• 25:03 - What advice would you give to Procurement teams that are struggling with legacy data?
• 29:56 - How do we influence other parts of the business to get the data we need? 
• 35:43 - The panel's data wishes 
• 39:00 - Data dumping grounds

Rich is joined by Tom Mills - Head of Procurement and Properties at Bibby Financial Services and Founder of Procure Bites.
 
They delve into topics such as the state of procurement in 2024, the impact of procurement scandals on the profession's image, the necessity and value of procurement to businesses, and even the potential role of technology like AI in procurement. 

Tom shares his perspective on the importance of diversity and supply relationship management within procurement. The conversation highlights the challenges and opportunities that procurement teams will face in 2024, from managing cost savings while focusing on ESG objectives, to dealing with political transitions and supply chain disruptions. 

We talk about our books to read:

• Oversubscribed: How To Get People Lining Up To Do Business With You by Daniel Priestley
• The 10X Rule: The Only Difference Between Success and Failure by Grant Cardone
• Before the Coffee Gets Cold by Toshikazu Kawaguchi

00:21 Introduction to the Big Conversation

00:50 The State of Procurement in 2024

01:43 The Impact of the Horizon Scandal on Procurement

02:25 The Role of Procurement in Vendor Selection and Relationship Management

03:25 The Challenges and Opportunities for Procurement in 2024

05:33 Big themes and the Impact of Global Events on Procurement

08:38 The Role of AI in Procurement

13:40: Re-imagining Procurement's role

16:42 The Future of Procurement Talent

22:49 Looking Forward to 2024

27:32 Books to Read in 2024

30:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Rich speaks to Jim Townsend - former CPO of Walgreens Boots Alliance to get the inside view on Procurement Technology from a CPO.

Jim talks about the digital landscape of procurement and the need for a more strategic approach for investment in procurement technology. 

The conversation includes the relevance of technology to relation to the maturity and requirements of an organisation, the value and timing of a technology investment, and  the need to focus on what's important, rather than getting distracted by new tech solutions. 

Jim also highlights the important of leadership in this space.

00:43 The Role of Technology in Procurement

01:56 The Importance of Timing in Tech Implementation

04:38 The Challenges of Making a Business Case for Tech

10:49 The Evolution of Procurement Tools

17:26 Tools that Jim has seen which are useful for procurement

21:58 The Skills Needed for Digital Procurement

24:08 Learning from Tech Mistakes in Procurement

26:08 Conclusion: The Future of Procurement and Technology

In this episode, Rich talks to procurement professional Mark Coulson talks about important changes in IR35 Interim Worker Space, including the significant tax offset change, and the resulting opportunities for procurement teams.

This conversation reveals how these changes can de-risk IR35 by about 75%, leading to material cost savings, providing access to better caliber contractors, and avoiding the need to body shop.

Mark further suggests that given these changes, companies need to reconsider the restrictions they have put on engaging contractors, especially since newer technology platforms can ensure compliance across different countries. He also provides insight into the potential savings opportunities and advises procurement leaders to use these changes as a catalyst to reopen the discussion about the company's policy stance on engaging contractors.

www.ir35pro.co.uk
Mark's Course: Click here

00:23 Introduction to the Procurement Conversation

00:42 Understanding IR35 and its Impact on Procurement

01:38 Mark's Journey into IR35 Specialisation

02:17 The Challenges and Misunderstandings of IR35

03:05 The Financial Implications of IR35

03:55 Learning from IR35 Experts and Applying Knowledge

04:35 The Market Response to IR35 Changes

07:28 The Impact of IR35 on Global Workforce

08:19 The Role of Technology in Managing IR35

09:28 The Offset Change in IR35 and its Implications

12:48 The Future of IR35 and its Impact on Procurement

15:26 The Role of Procurement in Navigating IR35 Changes
20:07 What should Procurement be doing?

22:11 Conclusion: The Importance of Understanding IR35

Procurement is the best job in the world. I’ve been privileged to work in it for the last 22 years and have loved every minute of it.

I’ve worked on great projects with fantastic people, and The Procurement Conversation podcast is my way of spreading the love and giving back.

I have seen how passionate and innovative teams can change the perception of procurement from an administration function to a visionary function, from obsessing over cost to delivering significant value, and from a systems and process oriented discipline to a human centric one.

And I want everyone to understand how they can also make this change.

On the podcast I speak to inspirational leaders and industry experts to find out what they are doing to advance the profession. In this latest series I am also talking to the CPOs of the future so we can spread the word to the next generation of professionals who may still be in schools or at university.

Please subscribe and give us a rating to ensure that as many people as possible join the mission.

Thank you.

This week Rich speaks to Tim Snow, CPO at Inmarsat about enhancing the agility and efficiency of procurement.

Emphasising the importance of procurement taking a proactive and involved role from the onset of strategy development, the conversation highlights the necessity for procurement to be seen as a partner capable of driving quality, pace, and commercial thinking, rather than simply executing processes. 

Key topics include the importance of building meaningful stakeholder relationships, the role of agility in procurement, the balance between speed, compliance, and vendor relationships, and fostering a culture of continuous improvement and innovation within procurement teams. The dialogue further delves into strategic partnerships, the measurement of procurement success beyond cost savings, and the concept of '10x'ing procurement to vastly enhance its contribution to business strategy and outcomes.

00:25 Introduction to Procurement's Speed Challenge

00:46 Interview with Tim Snow: The Importance of Getting Things Done in Procurement

02:26 The Reputation and Agility of Procurement Teams

04:42 Strategies for Accelerating Procurement Processes

07:31 Balancing Speed, Agility, and Compliance in Procurement

15:55 Addressing Common Procurement Bottlenecks

21:14 Fostering a Culture of Innovation and Continuous Improvement

23:22 Leveraging Strategic Partnerships for Better Outcomes

27:00 Evaluating the Success and Impact of Procurement Initiatives

32:32 The Concept of 10x'ing Procurement for Future Success

35:39 Closing Remarks 

In this episode of the Procurement Conversation, part of the Young Leaders series, host Rich talks with Ann Dhondt, Category Manager at Vodafone Procurement and Procurement Manager at HANNDS'ON. 

Ann shares her journey into procurement, beginning with her creative endeavours in product management and sourcing in Asia. 

She expresses her love for the creativity and variability the field offers, emphasising how procurement isn't just about negotiation but also about fostering relationships, creativity, and dealing with various challenges. 

Ann talks about her optimism about the impact that AI will bring to procurement such as in automating administrative tasks. She also highlights the importance of soft skills and adapting to technology. 

Reflecting on her career, Ann appreciates the growth and challenges she's faced, including those related to gender in the workplace. 

Looking forward, she anticipates technological advancements in procurement and advises those interested in the field to embrace curiosity, value creation, and the dynamic nature of procurement. 

The episode concludes with thoughts on attracting more young people to the procurement profession through education and social media.

In this episode of our Young Leaders series, Rich speaks to Ed Gamble, Digital Garage Manager at BP, who shares his journey into procurement, the evolving role of technology in procurement, and the importance of emotional intelligence and people skills in the field. 

Ed discusses how his team at BP's 'Garage' seeks innovative tech solutions to improve procurement processes, his accidental entry into the field post-university, and the fulfillment he finds in tackling diverse challenges and collaborating with a wide range of people. He highlights the shift towards digital transformation in procurement, emphasizing the need for investment in technology and the shift towards strategic relationships with suppliers. 

Ed also reflects on his career achievements, the value of graduate programs, and the importance of altering the perception of procurement to attract young talent into the field. 

Finally, Ed shares his approach to continuous learning and development, underscoring the crucial role of emotional intelligence and commercial acumen in procurement's future.

In this episode of the Procurement Conversation, part of the Young Leaders series, Laurie Franquesa, Managing Principal at Argon & Co., shares her journey into procurement from a mechanical engineering background. 

Laurie discusses her career and the dynamic and strategic nature of procurement, her daily activities, and the challenges faced, such as being involved too late in processes. 

She outlines key skills for success in procurement, highlights the importance of continuous learning and feedback, and reflects on her moments of pride and growth. 

Laurie also discusses the future of procurement, focusing on cost efficiency, data analytics, AI, and sustainability. 

She offers advice for those considering a career in procurement and emphasises the need for strategic positioning of procurement alongside spreading awareness about its value beyond cost-cutting.

In this episode of the Young Leaders Series, Rich interviews Isimeme Ughele, Head of Sourcing for West Africa and Morocco at Ericsson. 

Isimeme shares her journey into procurement, from her entry into the field, the roles she has held, and the skills that have contributed to her success.

She emphasises the importance of continuous learning, mentorship, and emotional intelligence, and discusses the future of procurement, including digital transformation and sustainability. 

Isimeme also shares personal anecdotes about career growth, leadership challenges, and offers advice for young people considering a career in procurement.

In this episode of the Procurement Conversation, host Rich interviews Nils Brauckmann, Head of Procurement at Personio, as part of the Young Leaders series. 

Nils shares his journey into procurement, the daily challenges and rewards of the role, and the skills necessary for success. 

He discusses the importance of outside-the-box thinking, building relationships, and leveraging automation in procurement. 

Nils also emphasises the necessity of more visibility for procurement in academia and the value of connecting with other professionals through communities like the Procurement Foundry.

In this episode of the Young Leaders series, Rich talks to  Lada Samarska, Community Manager at Precoro, about her unintentional yet fulfilling journey into procurement. 

Lada shares her insights on the importance of procurement in daily life, the collaborative nature of her role, and the external perception challenges faced by the profession. 

She discusses the skills vital for procurement, her team's achievements amidst market turbulence, and her aspirations for the future. 

Lada also offers advice for aspiring procurement professionals and emphasises the need for educational inclusion of procurement in universities to attract more young talent to the field.

In this episode of the Young Leader Series, Rich speaks to Karla Harris, Value Creation Senior Manager at PwC. 

Karla shares her unconventional entry into procurement, the variety and tangible results that keep her passionate about the field, and the skills essential for success. She emphasises the importance of adaptability, communication, and continuous learning.
 
Karla also discusses her career highlights, including innovative ESG projects, and provides advice for those considering a career in procurement. 

Finally, she offers insights into how the industry can attract more young talent by rebranding and better communicating the impact of procurement on global challenges.

In this episode, the Rich speaks to Jeremy Smith, Managing Director at 4C Associates, about the critical aspects of building and retaining a great procurement team. 

Jeremy emphasises the importance of diversity, skillsets, and personality in creating cohesive teams. He discusses recruitment challenges, the essential qualities for procurement professionals, and the evolving role of procurement in businesses, especially post-COVID. 

Jeremy also touches on mentorship, the significance of AI in procurement, and trends including digitisation and sustainability. The episode also looks at how 4C Associates differentiates itself in the marketplace through its people-centric approach and cultural values.

In this episode of the Procurement Conversation, we talk with Pauline Potter, Director of Procurement and Sustainability at Evri, about the strategic role of procurement in business and how to get the right mix of cost, service and sustainability. 

She shares insights on identifying value, prioritising tasks, and fostering continuous improvement within her team. 

Pauline also discusses the importance of balancing urgent versus important tasks, building relationships across departments, and driving large-scale sustainability projects. The episode also touches on diversity in procurement leadership and how her team is hiring for new roles.