The Human Risk Podcast (Human Risk)

Coming soon is The Human Risk podcast, looking at how Behavioural Science can help manage the biggest risk facing most organisations: people!

We have laws to protect us from the actions of 'bad' people. But why might writing laws for 'bad' people actually be a bad idea? That's what my guest, Professor Yuval Feldman, asks in his research and helps me explore on this inaugural episode of the podcast.

Might we be better off writing laws for 'good' people, or those who think of themselves as good people? Yes, says Feldman. As he explains “In many many contexts, people do not know that what they do is illegal or immoral, at least not in an objective way”
. What works for law, can also work for Compliance.

If you think the law is boring, think again.

Resources:

Yuval Feldman - https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldman

Robert Cooter. - https://www.law.berkeley.edu/our-faculty/faculty-profiles/robert-cooter/

Phil Tetlock - https://www.sas.upenn.edu/tetlock/

Yuval’s Book “The Law of Good People” - https://tinyurl.com/yxczvzrr

How does someone become an FBI informant? That's the story my guest Tom Hardin shares with me on this re-recorded episode. Tom and I originally spoke in 2019, but we thought we'd re-record the episode in 2021, to take account of subsequent events.

Tom previously spent much of his career as a hedge fund analyst. In 2009, as part of a cooperation agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice, Tom assisted the U.S. government in understanding how insider trading occurred in the investment management industry. Known as “Tipper X,” Tom became one of the most prolific informants in securities fraud history, helping to build over 20 of the 80+ individual criminal cases in “Operation Perfect Hedge,” a Wall Street house cleaning campaign that morphed into the largest insider trading investigation of a generation. Since resolving his case in 2015, Tom was invited by FBI-NYC to speak to the Complex Financial Crime Unit's rookie agent class in 2016 and is now an international corporate trainer and speaker on conduct risk, compliance and behavioral ethics. He holds a B.S. in Economics from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. 

Tom can be contacted at www.tipperx.com.


Resources:

On the podcast. Tom references Napster, a peer to peer music-sharing website that launched in 1999 and was closed down in 2001. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napster


You can follow Tom on Twitter at https://twitter.com/iamtipperx

He is also on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-hardin-0952324/

To see his 1-minute videos, visit his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrBkFwrpqDuTz6mXrmyTzUg

In this episode, I'm launching a new recurring feature on the podcast.

In these Human Risk Talks, I'll be joined by co-host Tom Hardin and together we'll explore Human Risk related stories we've come across that we think are worth diving into in more detail.

You can hear Tom's story in Episode 2.

To begin, we examine the recent events surrounding WeWork, the provider of office space whose stockmarket listing was cancelled.

We then examine the phenomenon of marathon cheating and what lies behind it.

Finally, we look at some recent Insider Trading cases and explore what motivates people to engage in that activity.

We close out the episode with two recommendations. Tom talks about Lying, a book he's been reading and I share my views on the Netflix drama The Spy.

In this episode, I speak to Ricardo Pellafone, the founder of The Broadcat, a Compliance Design Company. He describes himself as "a startup founder focused on making law accessible to non-lawyers through good design. We take the concept of "compliance training" and turn it into practical, timely reminders that transparently nudge employee behavior in the right direction."


For more on The Broadcat, visit their website: www.thebroadcat.com

To explore The Compliance Design Club visit https://clubhouse.thebroadcat.com/

In this episode, I'm joined again by co-host Tom Hardin. Together we explore Human Risk related stories we've come across that we think are worth diving into in more detail.

You can hear Tom's story in Episode 2.

In this episode, we look at three stories, conveniently featuring an A, a B and a C!

A is for AirBnB: we look at the room-leasing platform in the light of recent incidents. We also explore what it and other platform-based businesses need to think about in terms of Human Risk Management.

B is for Boeing: we look at the latest developments involving the Seattle-based aeroplane manufacturer and consider what went so wrong.

Finally, C is for Cheating. In the last Human Risk Talk, we explored Marathon Cheating. This time its exam cheating which appears to be gaining greater prevalence. We explore why and look at ways that we can disincentivise people from engaging in it.

We close out the episode with two recommendations. Tom talks about Chernobyl, the HBO TV series and I share my views on a book called The Bank That Lived A Little which tells the story of Barclays Bank.

Dr Roger Miles is an expert in Conduct. In this episode, I explore with him what that means and how he came to specialise in it. Using stories ranging from Reality TV shows, to the 1902 Hanoi Rat Plague, Roger explores how we can think about conduct in simple to understand ways.

You can contact Roger here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogermiles

Ruth Steinholtz is the founder of AretéWork, a company that advises on how to build sustainable effective ethical cultures in organisations. She was formerly General Counsel of Borealis and has authored a book on Ethical Business Practices with Professor Chris Hodges.

In this episode, we discuss how Ruth came to be interested in the field of ethics from a very young age, how she implemented an ethical culture in her previous work and we explore how companies and regulators can more effectively manage one of the key challenges of the 21st century.

You can find out more about Ruth on her website: https://aretework.com/

The book that she co-wrote with Professor Christopher Hodges is called Ethical Business Practice and Regulation. You'll find more details here: https://aretework.com/books/

In this extended episode, I'm joined again by co-host Tom Hardin. Together we explore Human Risk related stories we've come across that we think are worth diving into in more detail.

You can hear Tom's story in Episode 2.

Roger Dooley describes himself as a "Friction Hunter". In this episode, I speak to him about his study of Friction; what I think of as "the things that stop us doing what we want or need to do". We explore why Friction exists, what we can do about removing it and why we might, sometimes, actually want it to be there.

By the end of the episode, you'll be more familiar with what Friction is and, if my experience, is anything to go by, you'll start seeing it everywhere.

To find out more about Roger, including details of his podcast and his excellent book on Friction, visit www.rogerdooley.com

In this episode, I speak to Kelly Paxton who is a specialist in Pink Collar Crime which is a type of Human Risk. Kelly explains what Pink Collar Crime entails, why it is more significant than we might think and, most importantly, what we can do to mitigate it. On the way, we hear some of the stories of Pink Collar Crime cases she has been involved in investigating.

You can find Kelly on LinkedIn where she posts a regular #FridayFelon https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellypaxton/

Her website is https://pinkcollarcrime.com/ .and you'll find her on Twitter: @pdxcfe

In this episode, I welcome two of my favourite podcasters onto the show. Tim Houlihan and Kurt Nelson are the hosts of the fabulous Behavioral Grooves podcast, which you'll find wherever you get your quality audio content. And also right here: https://behavioralgrooves.com/

Not only are they accomplished BeSci podcasters, with some wonderful stories to tell about their show, but they're also experienced BeSci practitioners in their own right.

Tim founded a consultancy in applied behavioral sciences built on more than a dozen years of working with academic partners from Carnegie Mellon, Duke, Columbia, Quinnipiac, Monmouth, University of Houston, and the University of St. Thomas to name a few.

Kurt earned his doctorate in industrial and organizational psychology and founded his own consultancy more than 20 years ago to focus on the application of behavioral science in corporate settings. His clients are a who’s who of Fortune 500 companies

In this wide-ranging discussion, we talk about HR (Human Resources, rather than Human Risk!) and explore how organisations can improve the way they manage human capital and therefore reduce Human Risk. We end the show with joint commitments: mine was to release this epsiode before the end of January. To find out what theirs was, have a listen!

To contact Tim or Kurt you can visit the www.behavioralgrooves.com website or directly using the details below.

Kurt Nelson: @motivationguru or https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtwnelson/ or kurt@lanterngroup.com

Tim Houlihan: @THoulihan or https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-houlihan-b-e/ or tim@behavioralchemy.com

In this episode, I speak to Alex Sidorenko, the founder of Risk Academy. When it comes to thinking innovatively about risk, Alex has some fascinating thoughts, that we can deploy in the management of Human Risk.

The episode was recorded in 2019, prior to the launch of Risk Awareness Week. Scheduled over a week (as the name implies!) this was an online conference that brought risk experts from a range of disciplines together. I'm delighted to report it'll be back in 2020 and you can find more details at 2020.riskawarenessweek.com

During our discussion, Alex refers to a video in which he compares traditional Risk Management to Astrology. You'll find it on the Risk Academy YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCog9jkDZdiRps2w27MZ5Azg

To find out more about Alex, visit https://riskacademy.blog/blog/ or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexsidorenko/

In this episode, co-host Tom Hardin and I talk about more stories from the news that fascinated us from a Human Risk perspective. We begin by talking about the Luanda Leaks, then explore the recent scandals involving the Saracens Rugby Team in the UK and the Houston Astros Baseball Team in the US. Finally, we recommend a book each:

Tom's is How Will You Measure Your Life by Clayton Christensen

Mine is 21 Lessons For The 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari

What can we learn about managing risk from famous moments & people from history?

In this episode, I speak with Jacinthe Galpin who is both a podcaster and an experienced risk professional. Jacinthe is the host of the Risktory podcast which looks at History through the lens of Risk. On the show, we explore the podcast, how she came up with the idea and what she's learned from doing over 100 episodes of the show.

In addition, we talk Risk Management and what Jacinthe has learned from her time in the discipline. As an Australian who has moved to the US, she also has some fascinating insights into the differences between the two cultures.

You'll find the Risktory podcast wherever you get your quality audio content, as well as here: https://www.spreaker.com/show/risktory

To find Jacinthe, you can connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacintheagalpin/

On this episode of the Human Risk podcast, I speak to Luca Dellanna about COVID-19. He explains why he thinks governments aren't doing nearly enough to contain the spread of the virus. We also explore the work that he does within organisations.

On the podcast, Luca mentions Alchemy by Rory Sutherland. He also discusses his own books which you can find, together with more details about his work at https://www.luca-dellanna.com/

You'll also find him on Twitter at @dellannaluca

In this episode, I speak with Richard Bistrong, the CEO of Frontline Anti-Bribery. He specialises in helping organisations prevent bribery and corruption, as well as in enhancing the effectiveness of their Compliance programmes. You can find more out about Richard on his website: https://richardbistrong.com/ as well as on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardbistrong/) and Twitter (https://twitter.com/RichardBistrong).

The episode is also an experiment. I've split my conversation with Richard up into smaller episodes, so it is only 20 minutes rather than the usual longer format. Feedback on this welcome.

Further episodes featuring Richard will follow in due course...

Why is there so much management bullshit used in the workplace? On this episode, I speak with Professor Ian McCarthy who is the W.J. VanDusen Associate Professor of Innovation and Operations Management at the SFU Beedie School of Business.

Ian recently co-authored a piece of research entitled "Confronting indifference toward truth: Dealing with workplace bullshit" and on the podcast, I talk to him about the genesis of the idea and the research findings. And he introduces the CRAP framework that he and his co-authors developed to help us all identify and respond to the challenges of Workplace Bullshit. We also briefly touch on Ian's other research into Social Media and Deep Fakes.

To read a copy of the research click here: https://lnkd.in/gVq2Kuv

You can also support the work being undertaken by Ian and his colleagues by completing the Workplace Bullshit survey here: https://sfulsg.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1XGmd6FDZfjwjzf

For more on Ian visit his LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmccarthy1/ or his faculty page: https://beedie.sfu.ca/profiles/IanMcCarthy

In this impromptu episode, Richard Bistrong, Ruth Steinholtz and I discuss the Ethics of holding an in-person event at the time of a pandemic. The discussion arose because the three of us were due to attend an Ethics Conference together next month. That Conference has now been switched to become a virtual one. This led us to think about the challlenges of running ethical, and other) events at a time like the present.

To find out more about Richard and his work see www.richardbistrong.com  For more on Ruth visit her website www.aretework.com.

In this episode, I speak to Mark Heywood. He's a former colleague and good friend of mine, who specialises in bridging the gap between Creatives and the Business World. In our conversation we explore what the Coronavirus means for the Entertainment Industry; both its business model and the kind of content it will produce as a result. To find out more about Mark and his work you can visit his website: www.inkjockey.co.uk or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markheywoodinkjockey/

I take the opportunity to get some advice from Mark on recommended quarantine viewing and reading. He suggests three things:

1. The Vietnam War by Ken Burns & Lynn Novick on Netflix https://www.netflix.com/title/80997770
Be warned this is a serious time commitment, but as Mark explains, it'll change the way you think of the dynamics of that situation. And it is relevant to the way in which governments and other authorities communicate with us today.


2. The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins:
You can follow this recommendation either in written format, where it forms a trilogy of novels (with the next part of the series due out in May this year):https://www.songbirdsandsnakes.com/

Or you can watch this series of four movies: https://www.lionsgate.com/franchises/the-hunger-games.

3. I am Legend by Richard Matheson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(novel)
As novels (with the next part of the series on release in May 2020): https://www.songbirdsandsnakes.com/

As a series of four movies: https://www.lionsgate.com/franchises/the-hunger-games

3. I am Legend by Richard Matheson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(novel)
Mark's third recommendation is this novel which has been made into a number of movies, including one starring Will Smith (which Mark specifically suggested we don't watch).

In this episode, I speak with Ben Cattaneo. Ben is a risk professional who is also the host of the All Things Risk podcast.

We ended up having a rather longer than planned conversation, so I've split it up into several parts. In this first part, we begin by talking about Ben's career in Risk. We then explore how our perception of risk is often flawed and look at ways that organisations can think differently about risk management.

You can find out more about the topics we discussed as follows:

The All Things Risk podcast: http://www.allthingsrisk.co.uk/

"Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" by Shunryu Suzuki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_Mind,_Beginner%27s_Mind

"Black Swan" by Nassim Taleb:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory

Bike Shedding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

"Range" by David Epstein:
https://davidepstein.com/the-range/

On this episode, I am joined again by Ricardo Pellafone to discuss how Risk & Compliance (R&C) professionals can think about responding to the challenges posed by the Coronavirus. As the ways in which we work are changing drastically, how can and should R&C respond? What should their key priorities be and what should they avoid doing? We discuss this and a whole host more.

Ricardo is the founder of The Broadcat (www.thebroadcat.com) a Compliance Design Company.

This episode is a Crosscast with the All Things Risk podcast.

A Crosscast is where two podcasters cone together to release a joint episode. Here I combine with Ben Cattaneo to create the All Things Human Risk podcast.

You can learn more about Ben on Episode 20 of the Human Risk podcast.

In our discussion we talk about how the changes forced on us by the Coronavirus are impacting us, what that means from a behavioural perspective and what we can do to cope with the changes.

Some of the things we discuss on the show:

Atul Gawande Checklist Manifesto

Man in plague mask on BBC

NYTimes Front Page

HBR article on grief

Conspiracy theories and coronavirus 

You’ll find the All Things Risk podcast here: www.allthingsrisk.co.uk

On this episode, I speak with Alix Hope who is a Creative Strategist for design agency Bompas & Parr. They are Taste Architects who specialise, amongst other things, in immersive events.

Given the changes the Coronavirus has brought on our lifestyles and the new behaviours we are being required to adapt, Bompass & Parr recently released a report called Fluid Landscapes. This explores what is happening and what might happen as we shift perspectives from the freely flowing behaviours of a world without Coronavirus, to a world that has forcibly embraced fresh routines .

Alix is the report's author and joins me to talk about it and what they are predicting for the new world we'll be living in.

You can read more about Bompas & Parr on their website: www.bompasandparr..com

Details of the Creative Landscapes launch event on 8th April at 1600 UK time are available on their Instagram feed: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-hngM-ngNi/.

You can follow them there: @bompasandparr

On this episode I speak to Jez Groom and April Vellacott, the authors of a new BeSci book called "Ripple". Jez and April talk about their journeys in BeSci, provide some fascinating insights from their book and we finish with a discussion about the Behavioural aspects of teh Coronavirus.

Ripple is published by Harriman House and is available from all good booksellers. To read more about the book, you can visit the dedicated microsite: https://www.cowryconsulting.com/ripple-book
Jez and April work for Cowry, a BeSci Consulting Firm (www.cowryconsulting.com)

You can read more about them here:

https://www.cowryconsulting.com/consultants/jez-groom
https://www.cowryconsulting.com/consultants/april-vellacott

What do we mean by Ethics & why does it matter?
On this episode, I speak with Alison Taylor who is the Executive Director of Ethical Systems, a collaboration based at NYU Stern School of Business. She works on challenges at the intersection of corporate integrity, risk and responsibility.

You can follow Alison on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FollowAlisonT

Alison is also a senior adviser to BSR (https://www.bsr.org/) a global nonprofit business network and consultancy dedicated to sustainability.

We explore how the virus is bringing ethical questions to the fore and look at how companies and individuals try to manage this complicated subject.

We began the episode by talking about Alison’s background and how she came to be interested in the subject of ethics.

This episode of the Human Risk podcast isn't really an episode of the Human Risk podcast. It's the very first episode of a new podcast called "Behind The Spine". But it is about Human Risk. Mark Heywood, who featured on episode 19 of the Human Risk podcast, is the host of a show targeted at writers and helps them find learning opportunities in the most unlikely of places.

One of the main ways we make sense of the world around us is through stories. Whether that’s children’s fairytales that help shape our perspective on the world or the stories we tell ourselves and others to justify the decisions we make. We’re not short of examples of politicians and others using creative storytelling to justify their actions.

So if we can better understand stories, we can better understand behaviour. On this first episode, you'll be able to hear a familiar voice talking about Human Risk.

For more on Behind The Spine, visit the podcast website: https://bit.ly/2XB9as5.

You can subscribe to Behind The Spine on all the usual podcast platforms.

What do you do when you think your government isn't doing enough to protect you from the risk of COVID-19?

On this episode, I speak to Eggsy, a 22-year-old graphic design student. She noticed that her friends weren't following the UK Government advice on Social Distancing to prevent the spread of Coronavirus and wanted to do something. That something was the creation of a cartoon that explained the rationale behind the advice. The cartoon went viral.

You can see it for yourself here: https://youtu.be/6BhA9Kxd0mE

The techniques she deploys in the video are extremely engaging and illustrate an intuitive understanding of Behavioural Science. I wanted to understand what inspired Eggsy to produce the video, what the ideas behind the content were and to find out about what happened after she released it. We discussed all of those things...and a host of other things I wasn't expecting to talk about, but which were equally inspiring.

You can see more of Eggsy's work on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfLYB890iZh-0ECMMZ0y56A) and Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/itsjusteggsy/).

For more on The Adulthood Academy, Eggsy's new project, which we discuss on the episode, visit https://www.instagram.com/theadulthoodacademy/ or http://www.theadulthoodacademy.com/

This episode is the audio recording from a webinar I co-hosted with Ruth Steinholtz on "Managing Ethics in a Disrupted World".

Our aim in hosting it was to highlight the fact that in the current environment, ethical issues are more likely to arise. Many decisions currently being made, can have ethical consequences that are not immediately obvious in the short-term. We explore why this is the case and what individuals and organisations can do about improving the likelihood of making better ethical decisions.

For more about Ruth, who also featured in Episode 7 of this podcast, visit https://aretework.com/

To discuss any of the issues raised in the episode, do get in touch.

On this episode, I speak with Steve Martin and Joe Marks, the authors of a book called Messengers: Who We Listen To, Who We Don't and Why.

For more on the book, to see videos of key concepts it contains and to take a test to see what kind of Messenger you are, visit the website: https://www.messengersthebook.com/

On the show, we talk about Robert Cialdini. You can find out more about him here: https://www.influenceatwork.com/

How will companies be held to account for their actions under COVID?
On this episode, I speak with Pooj Morjaria, the founder of www.didtheyhelp.com, a website that tracks the good and bad things that companies and public figures are doing during the Coronavirus.

We talk about the genesis of the website, how it is populated and some of the challenges he faces in running it. We also explore what the Ethical challenges of recording other people's ethical decision-making.

For more on "Did They Help" visit the website at www.didtheyhelp.com

You can also find them on Twitter: https://twitter.com/didtheyhelp

How can Behavioural Science help museums to encourage more visitors?

In this episode, I speak to Professor Tom Schössler who is the Managing Director of the Weserburg Museum of International Contemporary Art. For links to references I made during the show see the end of these notes.

Tom was responsible for conducting an interesting Behavioural Science experiment to see how a change in the pricing structure, impacted visitor numbers and perception of his museum. For more on that: https://www.artsprofessional.co.uk/magazine/article/what-weve-learned-car-parks-about-boosting-attendance

What Tom had to say about the experiment was really interesting and it highlights a real challenge of Behavioural Science; to work out whether something works, you need to experiment. And that takes courage. The lessons from this are fascinating.

What the experiment illustrates is the power of behavioural interventions; if we want to change behaviour, then changing people's perceptions is a powerful tool to do that. The lessons we can learn from this don't just apply to Museums. They also apply to other fields like Risk, Compliance and HR.


We recorded this before the Coronavirus lockdown, but obviously the challenge of getting visitors through the door once the crisis is over is going to be even more acute than before.

As this series progresses, I’m looking to bring you different voices you won’t have heard before, alongside academics and Behavioural Science practitioners. A museum director fits that bill perfectly.

For more on the Museum visit their website: https://weserburg.de/en/visit/
The local items I mentioned in my introduction are:
Werder Bremen football club: https://www.werder.de/en
Brauerei Beck: https://becks.de/
The Town Musicians of Bremen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Musicians_of_Bremen

On this episode, I speak to Professor Robert Frank, the H. J. Louis Professor of Management and Professor of Economics at Cornell University's Johnson Graduate School of Management. In his new book Under The Influence, he explores how our environments encourage smoking, bullying, tax cheating, sexual predation, problem drinking, and wasteful energy use. By understanding how our behaviour is contagious, we can find ways to solve some of the biggest issues facing our society. For more on Robert's book: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691193083/under-the-influence

Robert on Twitter: https://twitter.com/econnaturalist
Robert's Faculty Page: https://www.johnson.cornell.edu/faculty-research/faculty/rhf3/

This episode is the audio recording from a webinar I co-hosted with Tom Hardin on "Decision-Making under Uncertainty". The video version is available for viewing on the Human Risk YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/SS8GuNSErrA

Details of future Human Risk webinars will be released on Social Media and via the Human Risk Newsletter: https://human-risk.com/newsletter-archive/

For more about Tom, who also featured in Episode 2 of this podcast, visit https://tipperx.com/

To discuss any of the issues raised in the episode, do get in touch.

On this episode, I speak to David Enrich, the New York Times Financial Editor. He's the author of a new book called Dark Towers: Deutsche Bank, Donald Trump, and an Epic Trail of Destruction.
We discuss the Human Risk aspects of the story and explore some of the dynamics that led to an extraordinary story.

For more on Dark Towers: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062878816/dark-towers/

Why do people who work in banks engage in bad behaviour? That's the question my guest on this episode, Professor Elizabeth Sheedy of Macquarie University in Sydney, specialises in researching. She is a risk management expert based in the Department of Applied Finance and since 2012 her research focus has been on Risk Governance, Culture and Remuneration in Financial Institutions. So she's ideally placed to explore why there appears to be such an issue with behaviour in Financial Services. In our discussion, we talk about why bad behaviour occurs and what we can do to mitigate it. What are the factors that drive people to engage in it? Would it make a difference if the industry were more diverse?


You'll find links to her research below.

For more on Human Risk, including the Newsletter and Video Channel. visit www.human-risk.com.

This major study of risk culture in Australian and Canadian banks, highlights the issue of ‘avoidance’ culture in predicting poor behaviour: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/corg.12200


How both remuneration and culture predict compliance behaviour: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378426619301864

What is the potential of compensation deferrals to temper bad behaviour? Will people gravitate towards the pay structures they prefer? Will the nature of the workforce change if deferrals are introduced? https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3535347


This research explores the "Lehman Sisters" hypothesis, which posited that had Lehman Brothers been run by women, that things might have turned out differently. The research suggests the opposite; it turns out senior females in banks are pretty similar to their male counterparts.: https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/MF-11-2017-0465/full/html?casa_token=Sw-pGQTHpz4AAAAA:fu38Nld8uqZWES3N5koN1byos6t44SKVRrURunfUD9DWgLIHZlZpBqVDSMfR7eGbS1_-dpG3jmim_gVGRYuyo7qI1r1MQw1b0YoHvloXIVh4eZVllUvp

How has COVID impacted leadership and behaviour in business? On this episode, I speak with Professor Dr. Niels Van Quaquebeke. Niels is Professor of Leadership and Organizational Behavior at the Kühne Logistics University in Hamburg. He is additionally affiliated (part-time) with the University of Exeter as a Distinguished Research Professor.I've known him for a number of years, having first met when he taught me on a leadership course.

Niels and I discuss how COVID19 is impacting leadership on a national and organizational level. We also explore some ways we can each, as individuals, cope with COVID19 and make ourselves more robust and future-proof.

Not only is he incredibly insightful, but he's also a lot of fun.

For more on Niels, visit the KLU website: https://www.the-klu.org/faculty-research/resident-faculty/niels-van-quaquebeke/

For corporate enquiries including training see http://www.respicere.de/


Niels is also an avid user of social media and I recommend following him:

Twitter - @NielsQuaquebeke - https://twitter.com/NielsQuaquebeke
Instagram - @NielsVanQuaquebeke - https://www.instagram.com/nielsvanquaquebeke/

This episode is a recording of a webinar I did with Dr Roger Miles on "Conduct & Culture under COVID".

In our discussion, Roger and I explore what changes, if any, there have been during Coronatime to expectations and norms of what constitutes “good behaviour”.

Many industries are now regulated by Behavioural or Conduct regulators, who have views on what they expect from their regulatees. Equally, we’re seeing a shift in societal expectations as to what the general public expects from companies; either the one they work for, or from whom they buy products.

We explore what that means and how we, both companies and individuals, can best respond to the changing dynamics.

As ever with the webinar recordings, the quality isn’t as high because of the limitations of Zoom, so apologies for that. But hopefully, lower-quality audio is compensated for by high-quality content.

To find out more about Human Risk webinars, subscribe to the Human Risk newsletter at www.human-risk.com or follow me on social media (@humanriskblog on Twitter).

This episode is the audio recording of a webinar I co-hosted with BeSci and Change expert Koen Smets. In it, we discussed Change Under COVID and the Behavioural Dynamics that entails.

You can find more from Koen on his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/koenfucius
As well as on Medium: https://medium.com/@koenfucius

The audio quality of this episode is lower than usual, due to the limitations of Zoom. As ever, I hope high quality content, makes up for lower quality audio.

How can we manage in a world that is uncertain?
In this episode, I speak with Margaret Heffernan, the author of a timely new book called "Uncharted: How to Map the Future Together". In it, she explores the ways in which we naturally seek certainty, yet we know from experience that the world is far from certain.

By adopting approaches that are outlined in teh book, we can embrace uncertainty and be more successful. On the podcast, we explore the book and the ideas behind it.

You can firm out more about the book here: https://www.mheffernan.com/book-uncharted.php

For more on Margaret, visit her website: www.mheffernan.com

How can Behavioural Science help business? On this episode, I speka with Richard Chataway who is a Behavioural Science practitioner that has recently published a book called "The Behaviour Business".

In it, he explores how businesses can use Behavioural Science to help them meet their business objectives more effectively. As he says "if you're in business, you are in the business of behaviour". On the podcast, we talk about how Richard came to be interested in Behavioural Science and explore some of the themes he covers in the book,

You can find out more about the Behaviour Business and associated podcast here: https://harriman-house.com/behaviourbusiness

Why is it that we behave differently in groups to the way we behave individually? In particular, why do so many people become bystanders when they see things they could intervene to prevent?

On this episode, I speak with Professor Catherine Sanderson about her new book on The Bystander Effect. You can find links to it on her website at www.sandersonspeaks.com

Catherine is the Manwell Family Professor in Life Sciences at Amherst College in Massachusetts.
You can read more about her work on her faculty page: https://www.amherst.edu/people/facstaff/casanderson

On this episode, I speak with Professor Benjamin van Rooij who specialises in exploring the impact Laws have on Human Behaviour. He's recently been doing some research into the impact of COVID regulations in a number of jurisdictions. We discuss what he's discovered thus far and what he thinks the future of Compliance under COVID could look like. He also highlights the factors that determine whether or not people are compliant and what governments can do to make things more effective. This is an incredibly timely, highly informative episode on a topic I'm sure we'll be returning to.

Some of the research Benjamin refers to in the show:

Policing Pollution: Regulating the Chemical Industry: https://crg.aic.gov.au/reports/8-92.pdf

Strangers In Their Own Land: https://thenewpress.com/books/strangers-their-own-land

His article for The Hill on Social Distancing: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/495287-until-theres-a-cure-social-distancing-will-have-to-continue

His article on Lockdown: https://theconversation.com/how-to-keep-up-social-distancing-after-lockdown-138370

Finally a link to his website: https://www.uva.nl/profiel/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html?cb
You can also find him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/benfuzi

On this episode, I speak with Behavioural Science (BeSci) guru and Advertising expert Rory Sutherland. He's the Vice Chairman of Ogilvy and the founder of its BeSci practice. He's also a prolific thought-leader on the subject. It might seem surprising to have an Ad Man talking about Compliance, but as you'll discover, he's got some highly relevant (and entertaining) insights!

On the podcast, we mention:
Nudgestock, the Ogilvy BeSci festival on 12th June - www.nudgestock.co.uk
Rory's book 'Alchemy' - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/110/1108430/alchemy/9780753556504.html

You can see his TED Talks here: https://www.ted.com/speakers/rory_sutherland?language=en

What can a comedian, travel writer and hidden camera TV star teach us about human risk? A lot. On this episode, I speak to comedian and travel writer Dom Joly to gain his insights. We explore the psychology of hidden camera television, the behavioural aspects of travelling and look at the dynamics of satire in the current environment.

You can find more information about Dom and his work on his website www.domjoly.tv and do follow him on Twitter (https://twitter.com/domjoly) & Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/realdomjoly). Details of his Trigger Happy TV watchalong are shared on his social media feeds.

On the show we refer to:
- Trigger Happy TV (https://domjoly.tv/dvd/).
- Dom's books including The Dark Tourist & The Hezbollah Hiking Club (https://domjoly.tv/books/)
- His Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5Ed4tzUWK1XtvDHT4n9C8D?si=F0HURGKQQ1mBPYsXp3y6Uw

We also mention Matt Lucas' rendition of a speech by UK PM Boris Johnson (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt-lucas-video-mocking-boris-johnsons-speech-to-the-nation-goes-viral-11986438) and Sarah Cooper who does something similar for Donald Trump (https://twitter.com/sarahcpr)

In this episode I speak to Dr. Grace Lordan who is an Associate Professor in behavioural science at the London School of Economics. She is an economist by background, and her research is focused on understanding why some individuals succeed over others because of factors beyond their control. In this regard, she has expertise on the effects of unconscious bias, discrimination and technology changes. Grace is also interested in using the techniques of behavioural science to design interventions for firms to promote good conduct, diversity and inclusion and curb biases that creep into high stakes decision making.

For more on Inclusion In The City - http://www.lse.ac.uk/lse-player?id=4852

And for the report on Virtual Inclusion - http://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/Research/tii/virtual-inclusion-in-the-city

This episode is a cross-cast of Episode 10 of the Breaking The Fever Podcast.

It features JS Nelson, Associate Professor of Law at Villanova University, Pennsylvania who speaks about her work on surveillance, management culture, and compliance. The workplace has seen a striking acceleration of surveillance-led management over the past several years, and the pandemic has given these efforts more momentum. Nelson described why surveillance can often be counterproductive to effective organizational culture, human agency, and human rights, defending the imperative to resist unnecessary surveillance.

My thanks to Jerome Tagger & Alison Taylor, the hosts of Breaking The Fever for allowing me to share this episode with you.

To subscribe to Breaking The Fever, search for Breaking The Fever on your podcast platform of choice or visit the podcast website: https://www.spreaker.com/show/breaking-the-fever

For more on the webinars, join the LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12383430/

You can also follow them on Twitter: https://twitter.com/breaking_fever

On this episode, I speak with Florentin Blanc who is a Senior Policy Analyst at the OECD. In his work, he explores the effectiveness of regulation. Recently he has been looking at how different countries have responded to COVID-19 and in our discussion, we look at what has worked well and what hasn't. Not only is this of interest to each of us as citizens, but it is also helpful from a Human Risk perspective, as we can learn from what works (and doesn't) in this context and look to deploy the findings in other contexts.

You can read two of Florentin's most recent papers on this here: https://oecdonthelevel.com/2020/05/12/enforcing-social-distancing-assessing-what-works-and-what-doesnt/

https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/view/?ref=131_131923-jisarlbai9&title=Regulatory-Quality-and-COVID-19-Managing-the-Risk-sand-Supporting-the-Recovery

On this episode, I speak with Melina Palmer, host of The Brainy Business podcast.

Melina uses Behavioural Science to help everyone from global corporations to entrepreneurs understand the psychology of why people buy, unlocking the secrets of small changes that make a big difference via her podcast, public speaking, and column on Inc.com. She specialises in messaging, branding, advertisements, pricing and products that are more “brain-friendly".

The Brainy Business Website - https://www.thebrainybusiness.com

The Brainy Business Podcast - https://thebrainybusiness.com/podcast/

Melina's articles on Inc.com - https://www.inc.com/author/melina-palmer

On this episode, I speak with Dr. Nick Hobson of The Behaviorist. Not only does he hold a PhD in Behavioral Science, but he's also the host of a wonderful podcast. In our discussion, we explore (to paraphrase the name of his podcast) a load of BS.

Nick's website - https://www.behaviorist.biz/
His podcast - https://www.behaviorist.biz/bspodcast

On this, the 50th episode of the podcast, I'm speaking with Professor Charles Spence who heads the Crossmodal Research Laboratory at Oxford University.

He is interested in how people perceive the world around them. In particular, how our brains manage to process the information from each of our different senses (such as smell, taste, sight, hearing, and touch) to form the extraordinarily rich multisensory experiences that fill our daily lives.

In our discussion, we explore how the way our food and drink is presented to us, impacts the way it tastes. I first learned of Charles' work while reading this research on wine (https://cognitiveresearchjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s41235-020-00225-6) and we explore this in our discussion.

We also touch on a range of other fascinating issues.

This episode is most definitely best enjoyed with a glass of wine in hand.

For more on the Crossmodal Laboratory and its research, visit their website: https://www.psy.ox.ac.uk/research/crossmodal-research-laboratory

How can Behavioural Science help with design? On this episode, I speak with Dr Amy Bucher who is the VP of Behavior Change Design at Mad*Pow, a purpose–driven strategic design agency in Boston She's the author of a new book called Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change 👉 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/engaged-designing-for-behavior-change/

Amy crafts engaging and motivating experiences that help people change behaviors that contribute to physical, mental, and financial health and well–being. This involves planning and conducting research and translating insights into strategy and requirements for products and end–to–end experiences spanning digital and real–world components. Previously, Amy worked on behavior change products in–house at CVS Health, Johnson & Johnson, and HealthMedia, and has prior healthcare industry agency experience working for Big Communica¬tions on an innovation team. Amy received her A.B. from Harvard University, and her M.A. and Ph.D. in organizational psychology from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. Amy tweets at @amybphd and when she's not spending her writing energy on a book, blogs at amybphd.com.

In our discussion, we explore how she got into BeSci and her thoughts on how we can change people's behavior.

On this episode, I'm speaking to Gerald Ashley who specialises in Business Risk and Decision Making. His work concentrates on trying to understand decision making, risk-taking and human behaviour, in the face of uncertainty.

“In the slippery world of Risk, Uncertainty, Change and Complexity –hard and fast rules can be rare, and sometimes a trap.” as he puts it.

Prior to concentrating on decision making analysis, Gerald had a 25-year career in international finance, having worked for Baring Brothers in London and Hong Kong, and the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland. He remains involved in finance as an independent non-exec director of the London based fund managers Equitile (www.equitile.com)

Gerald is Managing Director of St. Mawgan & Co (www.stmawgan.com) which he co-founded in 2001, a London based consultancy specialising in risk management, strategy consulting, and behavioural finance modelling in business decision making and risk-taking.

He is also a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, and a Visiting Fellow at Newcastle Business School. His strong interest in financial history has also led him to become an interviewer for an Oral History Project about The City and finance. ( www.centreforfinancialhistory.org/oral-histories/)

You can find Gerald's blog here: www.geraldashley.blog

and his website here: www.geraldashley.com


In our discussion, he refers to a book by Paul Ormerod (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Positive-Linking-Networks-Revolutionise-World/dp/057127921X) and also mentions Frank Knight & Knightian Uncertainty which you can read more about here: http://news.mit.edu/2010/explained-knightian-0602
Gerald has written three books:

Two Speed World - https://www.harriman-house.com/two-speed-world

The Tangled World, a mini e-book that built on Two Speed World - https://www.harriman-house.com/the-tangled-world

Financial Speculation, a markets book about behavioural finance - https://www.harriman-house.com/financial-speculation

You can see Gerald present at Nudgestock, a BeSci festival here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjSHZe1tRM

Have you ever found yourself 'on fire' — not literally (I hope!) — but in terms of being on good form? On this episode, I speak to Ben Cohen, the author of "The Hot Hand: The Mystery and Science of Streaks". Ben is a sports reporter for the Wall St Journal, who was inspired by a basketball game, to explore a phenomenon that is well understood in the sport.

In our discussion, we talk about the incident that got Ben interested in the phenomenon and the other cases of it that he explores in his book. We also look at the broader psychology of sport and what we can learn from it. And we explore one of Ben's reports that has absolutely nothing to do with sport.

To find out more about Ben's book: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062820723/the-hot-hand/

The article we refer to in our discussion: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-joys-of-watching-a-bridge-shave-the-tops-off-trucks-1452045185

On this episode, I speak to Dr Sarah Eaton, an Assistant Professor at the Werklund School of Education at the University of Calgary. She specialises in educational leadership, academic integrity, language learning and educational technology.

In our discussion, we talk about ethical issues that include Exam Cheating, Research Ethics and how these are being impacted by COVID-19. Whether you're in education, have kids in it or your last exam was many years ago, this is a fascinating exploration of the challenges facing a sector that is critical in society.

Sarah's webpage with links to her research is here: https://werklund.ucalgary.ca/sarah-eaton

On this episode, I speak with Professor Anu Bradford of Columbia Law School about the subject of her new book, The Brussels Effect. This is the idea that the EU wields far more influence on global affairs than might first seem the case.

In our discussion, we talk about how this happens, why it isn't obvious to people and what it means for all of us; whether you're living in Brexited Britain or in a country that seems so distant from the EU, that they can't possibly be influencing your life. Or can they? Spoiler alert: they really can. We also look at whether that's intended.

We then explore her new area of research, regulating the Internet.

If you're thinking, this doesn't sound much like a Human Risk topic, think again. This is about how our perception of something (in this case the influence of the EU) can be completely wrong. Often when we make poor decisions, it is because we've misunderstood what's going on.
You can find out more about Anu's research here: https://www.law.columbia.edu/faculty/anu-bradford and explore her book here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-brussels-effect-9780190088583?cc=gb&lang=en&

Very often, when we're trying to solve a problem, we can find the answer in a previous one. So as we try to get people to wear masks to prevent the spread of COVID, what might we learn from the techniques used to prevent the spread of HIV?

On this episode, I'm speaking to Dr Jill McDevitt who is a sexologist. She has three degrees in human sexology so is well qualified to help explore what is an unusual topic, but highly relevant ot the podcast. As the subject matter covers adult themes, listener discretion is advised.

Jill came to my attention because of this post on Facebook in which she compared the challenges of getting people to wear masks with the campaign to get people to practise safer sex: https://bit.ly/3fdOkVG

That link is also where you'll find the picture of Jill wearing a particular mask that I also reference on the show.

It's a perfect Human Risk case study and I wanted to know more. In this episode, we talk about Jill's career as a sexologist and then go through her list of learnings. Not only was it a lot of fun to record, but its a very 2020 episode!


You can find out more about Jill's work from her website: https://www.thesexologist.org/
She's also on Twitter: https://twitter.com/sexologistjill

On this episode, I speak to Matt Edwards an expert in marketing. Matt has over 25 years of experience in the industry, having begun his career as a graduate at Saatchi & Saatchi and then becoming CEO of Creative Agency WCRS. He now advises clients on getting a better return for their marketing investment.

Matt's website is https://mattedwardsconsulting.com/ and you can find him here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattedwardsconsulting/

What happens when a global organization has policies & procedures that clash with local customs & norms? The answer is that you risk non-compliance. Which is where Cultural Compliance comes in and it's the topic of my conversation with my guest Michael Kuckein.

Michael is a Compliance Officer working for a global firm and based in Istanbul, Turkey. His experience representing a Western company in a culture where the norms are somewhat different, reveals much about the challenges of ensuring consistency across a global organisation.

Michael has some really innovative ideas about how to manage this challenge; it's a discussion that's relevant to anyone operating in a global sphere.

What is Privilege? It's a word that's being used very frequently, but what is it, why is it undesirable and what can we do about it? All questions that my guest on this episode, Grace Lordan, helps me answer. We also explore Cognitive Diversity: what is it and why does it matter?

Grace is an Associate Professor in Behavioural Science at the London School of Economics and Political Science. Hger research is focused on understanding why some individuals succeed over others because of factors beyond their control. In this regard, she has expertise on the effects of unconscious bias, discrimination and technology changes. Grace is also interested in using the techniques of behavioural science to design interventions for firms to promote good conduct, diversity and inclusion and curb biases that creep into high stakes decision making.

She was my guest on a previous episode where we discussed Diversity: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/28887361

You can read more about Grace's work here: http://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/People/Dr-Grace-Lordan

How can Behavioural Science help get better healthcare outcomes?

That's the topic I'm exploring with my guest Aline Holzwarth. She's a Behavioral Scientist working in digital healthcare.

Aline is also the founder of Behavior Shop, a consultancy, as well as being a Principal at Dan Ariely's Center for Advanced Hindsight at Duke University.

In our discussion, as well as looking at health more broadly, we also explore what we can learn from COVID-19; how have the techniques being deployed to change people's behaviors worked? And what can we learn from them? Not just for healthcare, but in other fields.

Aline is also a writer for Forbes magazine and we explore that aspect of her career as well.

You can find Aline on Twitter: https://twitter.com/alineholzwarth?

A link to her Forbes articles are here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alineholzwarth/#44964e6c797f

How can we stop people from engaging in anti-social behaviour?

That's not usually a question you'd ask someone from a marketing agency. But it's precisely the kind of problem that Benoît de Fleurian, my guest on this episode, likes helping his clients to solve.

Benoît is the Head of the Behavioural Science for Ogilvy Consulting in Paris. He's worked on campaigns to tackle childhood obesity, gambling and many other social challenges.

I came across Benoît because of this video he produced for Ogilvy's Nudgestock Behavioural Science Festival: https://youtu.be/ORWSq36qFkQ?t=3468

In that, he explored how BeSci can help prevent public urination. The creative way he approached that problem is an excellent example of how BeSci can be used for Compliance purposes. So obviously we talked about that.

We also went on to explore some of the other BeSci projects he's been involved in, including work with the Gates Foundation and on helping children to eat more healthily.

In our discussion, Benoît talks about the movie that helped inspire his interest in BeSci. The French original is called État de Siège (in English State of Siege). You can watch the trailer here: https://bit.ly/2WVoQp0

For more on Benoît's work visit the Ogilvy France website: https://www.ogilvyredconseil.com/eng/leaders/benoit-de-fleurian/

If you liked this episode, I also recommend listening to his Ogilvy colleague Rory Sutherland on an earlier episode of this podcast: kite.link/rory.

In my conclusion, I mention various Human Risk outputs, including:

The Human Risk newsletter: https://human-risk.us18.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=48e65a30c09bfed289b6f25a5&id=a604cc998d

and

The Human Risk YouTube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7n9Gnti31VU2ZRaG9b0r1g?

What can we learn about Human Risk from industries, like aviation, where the consequences of errors are matters of life & death.

That's a question my guest this time, Andrew Blackie, is more than qualified to answer. He's an independent Safety and Human Factors consultant at Abris Consulting Ltd (http://www.abris.co.uk/).

Abris takes aviation safety investigation techniques and applies them to help build operational excellence in the wider safety critical community. Andrew was a Senior Inspector (Operations) at the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch conducting almost 50 major field investigations, numerous minor investigations and acting as the United Kingdom state representative on investigations conducted by foreign states.

With 20 years of aviation experience, Andrew has commercially operated types as varied as the DC-3, the Lockheed Electra and the Citation II for a Formula 1 racing team. He joined the AAIB from DHL Air where he had been a Captain and CRMi on the Boeing 757.

Andrew has a Masters degree in "Safety and Accident Investigation" and is accredited by the European Association for Aviation Psychology as a Human Factors Specialist.

So super well qualified!

In our discussion, we explore some fo the principles used in Aviation and how they can be applied in other scenarios. Plus, learn why recent incidents like this (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-hangar-foam-covered-discharge-los-angeles-lax-delta-a9427606.html) are far more severe than they might look.

During our discussion, Andrew referenced a research paper by Clewley & Nixon which you'll find here: https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1826/14680/Understanding_pilot_response_to_flight_safety-2019.pdf?sequence=4

You can follow Andrew on Twitter at https://twitter.com/BlackieAndrew.

What can we learn about Human Risk from Football? Or Soccer for my US listeners?

On this episode, I speak with Raphael Honigstein. Rapha is a sports journalist who covers football (soccer for US listeners) for several media outlets including The Athletic & BT Sport. In our broad-ranging talk, we explore the Human Risk dynamics of a sport where psychology is a prime factor.

In our discussion, I firstly ask Rapha about his passion for the game and how he became a sports journalist. Then we explore a range of different aspects of the game that have a Human Risk angle. How some teams have bent the rules to allow external investors (something that German football has fought hard to prevent for reasons we explain) and why some Managers can extract far better performances from their team than others. We also talk about what the introduction of video assistant referees, a video replay system designed to eliminate human error on the part of referees has meant (and why it seems to have worked much better in Germany than England). And we explore why football players command such high transfer fees and the varied implications of Coronavirus on the game. 

To find Rapha's writing in The Athletic use this link. A free trial is available: https://theathletic.co.uk/author/raphael-honigstein/

Rapha's podcast Steilcast, is also produced by The Athletic and is available on all good platforms. Link here: https://theathletic.com/podcast/163-steilcast/

You can find his books on Jürgen Klopp, the rebirth of German football & a German view of English football here: https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/1050718/raphael-honigstein.html

Below you'll find links to the stories we discuss so that you can explore them further if you're interested:

The re-opening of the Bundesliga: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/sports/soccer/bundesliga-rory-smith.html

Home advantage without spectators?
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/german-bundesliga/story/4107639/bundesliga-suggests-home-advantage-a-thing-of-the-past-in-empty-stadiums

The measures the Bundesliga clubs have gone to ensure quarantine:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8311531/Wolfsburg-staying-expensive-quarantine-hotel-Bundesliga-side.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/soccer-is-back-in-germany-but-can-the-season-stay-fair/2020/05/23/e7204f04-9ab9-11ea-ad79-eef7cd734641_story.html

Soloman Kalou incident at Hertha Berlin
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8284991/Former-Chelsea-striker-Salomon-Kalou-seen-making-mockery-coronavirus-hygiene-rules.html

Heiko Herrlich toothpaste incident
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/14/augsburg-head-coach-to-miss-bundesliga-restart-after-breaking-quarantine-for-toothpaste

Dynamo Dresden cases
https://www.dw.com/en/bundesliga-setback-dynamo-dresden-in-covid-19-quarantine/av-53385526

Fan Scenes in Paris prior to Lockdown
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51845054

German football fans protest against owners
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51800444

German football ownership rules
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/german-soccer-rules-50-1-fifty-plus-one-explained-466583.jsp

The story of Hoffenheim
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/49413-hoffenheim-the-fairytale-football-club#

Bundesliga Club Finances
https://www.forbes.com/sites/manuelveth/2020/04/06/13-of-36-bundesliga-clubs-face-financial-problems-bayern-munich-resumes-practice/#5e2bb51169a7

The Controversy around Video Assistant Referees
https://www.besoccer.com/new/fifa-prepares-plan-to-reduce-controversy-with-var-857634

2020 Champion's League changes
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/025f-0fd4721b794e-bfa28091239f-1000--changes-for-this-season/

How Hansi Flick replaced Niko Kovac as FC Bayern Manager
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8432329/Hansi-Flicks-calm-head-simple-approach-turned-Bayern-Municj-superpower.html

The story of Jürgen Klinsmann at Hertha Berlin
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/11/jurgen-klinsmann-resigns-as-hertha-berlin-manager-after-10-weeks

As the risks of failing to comply with regulations & ethical standards increase, how can we ensure that employees do what we want them to? This question underpins my whole Human Risk mission; if we see it as an exercise in rule-making, we're likely to deliver frameworks that look good on paper, but fail to understand the underlying human components of what makes people do the things we don't want them to in the first place.

I'm a proponent of "Bringing Science to Compliance". As is my guest. Todd Haugh is an Assistant Professor at Indiana University, specialising in LEAD: Law, Ethics & Decision-Making". So, in my books, he's an Assistant Professor of Human Risk. In our discussion, we explore Todd's research and what he's learned about managing the risks posed by people.

You can find out more about Todd and his research here here:https://kelley.iu.edu/faculty-research/faculty-directory/profile.cshtml?id=THAUGH

You’ve heard of Zoom Fatigue. But what about Zoom Trauma? It sounds extreme, but an article by my guest on this episode Hanna Thomas Uose suggests that this is precisely what we’re experiencing. I was so intrigued by what she had to say, that I invited Hanna onto the show to talk about it. In our discussion, we explore why she thinks that and what we can begin to improve things. We discuss why Zoom (and other video channels) are so traumatic and what thoughts Hanna has about how we can begin to solve the problem. She’s got some great ideas about how social media and the creative arts can help.

I’m a keen advocate for what Hanna is proposing and I’ll be following it as part of my Human Risk and Compliance Media Toolkit projects.

The original article that prompted this discussion is: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-trauma-of-zoom-bb3609aa41b2

To find out more about Hanna’s work visit her website here: https://www.wealign.net/about-us

She’s also on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hannathomas?lang=en

We also referred to:

A video featuring Professor Robert Kelly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY

The Meeting Owl https://www.owllabs.com/meeting-owl

Sarah Cooper https://twitter.com/sarahcpr

For more on the Compliance Media Toolkit, a guide to having better virtual experiences which is targeted at Compliance staff, but available for free to anyone and relevant regardless of your role, sign up here: https://bit.ly/31zALKy

For more Human Risk related content, follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/humanriskblog
and subscribe to the Human Risk newsletter here: https://bit.ly/2DpUjcF

In industries where human error can be the difference between life & death, how can we manage Human Risk?

The answer is Human Factors, a specialism that blends Behavioural Science & Psychology into operating processes, to ensure that Human Risk is mitigated by design.

My guest on this episode Neil Clark, is the founder of IHF - Integrated Human Factors. He came to my attention because of this project that he was working on in Edinburgh: https://www.insider.co.uk/special-reports/how-fighter-pilot-technology-best-22083132

Having invited him on to talk about that, we ended up having a fascinating conversation about Neil’s background and his work in a number of areas.

You can find out more about Neil’s company on their website - www.ihf.co.uk which also contains some really interesting case studies.

What would you do if someone made false allegations online about your home city? Would you go into battle on social media? You would if you're my guest on this episode. Dan Kaszeta was so annoyed by the suggestions that his adopted city of London had 'no go' zones, that he disproved it and then took on others who, with no basis, suggested he was wrong. Dan isn't just an internet troll hunter, he's also a world expert in nerve agents, which form the subject of his latest book.
I like having an eclectic mix of guests on the show and Dan is precisely that. Learn about his background working in the highest level of the US government and his various and varying areas of expertise.

The newspaper article that featured Dan's tweet on the (not a) 'No Go Zone' of Tower Hamlets is here: https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/fearless-security-expert-risks-life-venturing-london-sharia-no-go-zone-7288616/

You can find him on Twitter @dankaszeta

To read Dan's amazing biography visit: http://strongpointsecurity.co.uk/about/staff-bio/

For more on his book Toxic visit his website: http://strongpointsecurity.co.uk/toxic/

In the episode, Dan compares himself to Fred Dibnah. For the uninitiated, here's who Fred was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Dibnah

How can we use creativity to solve complex business problems?

That's what Kelly Peters, my guest on this episode does.

Kelly is the CEO and co-founder of BEWorks, a purpose-driven company whose goal is to transform society and the economy through scientific thinking. In simple terms, to use behavioral science to get better business outcomes. BEWorks supports Fortune 100 companies and governments to solve strategic challenges, through creative thinking.

On the show, we talk about how Kelly came to set up the company, the kinds of problems they help solve and how they go about it. We also explore the impact COVID is having on business and business models.

During our discussion, we talk about:

Dan Ariely - https://danariely.com/
VCRs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videocassette_recorder
DVDs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD

For more on BEWorks visit their website: www.beworks.com.
You'll find Kelly on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kellybeworks

"Why Can't We All Just Get Along?" is a question that we've probably all asked at some point in recent times. And it's one that my guest on this episode, Iain Dale, seeks to answer in his brand new book which has that as its title.

Iain is an award-winning radio presenter on the UK station LBC (www.lbc.co.uk). He's had a fascinating career, as a political candidate, a publisher and a host of other things. In our discussion, we talk about Iain's experiences on radio and what that's taught him about people and how they think. He's got some wonderful stories, which he tells with warmth and in an engagingly self-deprecating style. In his book, which is part autobiographical, part explorative, Iain covers a number of topics relating to Human Risk, and we talk about many of them on the show.

Listener warning: one of the topics we talk about, is the words that you're not allowed to say on UK radio. But you can say them on a podcast. So we do. If you're easily offended, then be warned.

Iain's book is out now published by Harper Collins and is available through all good independent bookshops. You can also order signed copies directly from him at https://bit.ly/3iV5FV6

You can find out more about him on his website.https://www.iaindale.com/

For Iain's LBC radio show, which is on 7pm - 10pm UK time Monday to Thursday and 10am - 12pm Sunday, visit www.lbc.co.uk

Why do things often not turn out the way we planned them? That's what my guest, Paul Orlando is interested in discovering. In his blog 👉https://unintendedconsequenc.es/ Paul explores Unintended Consequences and what he calls Second-Order Thinking.

In other words, a failure to think about the second-order implications of events. Looking at topics as wide-ranging as autonomous vehicles and shoplifting, Paul explores this key aspect of failure in human decision-making. On this episode, we dive into Paul's interest in Unintended Consequences and explore some of the key things he's discovered in his research.

As you'll discover, Paul is thoughtful, thought-proking and brings some wonderful insights.

On this episode, I explore the concept of denial; something we know is bad on an individual level. But what happens when denial takes place on an industrial scale? That's literally what my guest on this episode Barbara Freese, explores in her new book Industrial Strength Denial.

Barbara is an environmental attorney who explores some high profile cases of where corporations have done things that are harmful. Yet faced with proof that they are hurting people or the planet, they deny evidence, blame the victims, complain of witch hunts, attack their critics’ motives, and otherwise rationalize their harmful activities.

Denial campaigns have let corporations continue dangerous practices that cause widespread suffering, death, and environmental destruction. 

And, as Barbara goes on to explore, the fact that they undermine social trust in science and government, means that corporate denial has made it harder for our democracy to function.

During our discussion we explore some fo the stories Barbara has researched and written about and look at some of the underlying dynamics; what drives these organisations to denial and what can we do to solve the problem?

You can find out more about Barbara's book here: https://www.barbarafreese.com/industrialstrength-denial

Why do even the smartest and most savvy business people make mistakes? It's not because they're stupid. Instead, it's because of the way our brains work. That's what Professor Olivier Sibony, my guest on this episode, explores in his latest book "You're About To Make A Terrible Mistake".

In that book, he highlights how cognitive biases that underpin our thinking, can lead us to make terrible mistakes. Using fascinating case studies, he explores how we can fall into what he calls decision-making traps and how we can mitigate those. Not by re-programming ourselves, but rather by using collective thinking.

In our discussion, we explore the ideas in his book, and we look ahead to his next book 'Noise' which he's writing with Daniel Kahneman and Cass Sunstein.

For more on Olivier see his website: https://www.hec.edu/en/faculty-research/faculty-directory/faculty-member/sibony-olivier

You'll find details of his book here in English: https://oliviersibony.com/books/youre-about-to-make-a-terrible-mistake/

For articles, presentations and videos, see here: https://oliviersibony.com/articles-presentations/

What do you think of when you read the phrase 'Compliance Training'? Something dull that you're either forced to give (if you're in Compliance) or endure (if you're not)? If so, you're not alone. But it doesn't have to be like that. As my guest this time, Travis Waugh, explores in his book Fully Compliant.

Travis is a Learning & Development expert who came to Compliance Training and thought there was a better way to do things. Which is what we explore in this episode of the podcast. So whether you're responsible for Compiance Training, or simply have to go along to it and don't get much out of it, this is the episode for you. Find out why and then help change things in your organization.

For more on Travis' book visit: https://www.td.org/books/fully-compliant

As academic establishments continue to adjust from face to face teaching to being primarily online experiences, how are academics adjusting? That's the start point for my discussion in this episode with Dr Andrew Ishak.

Having seen this article:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/how-to-curate-your-zoom-backdrop-and-why-you-should

he responded with this video to help his academic colleagues seem more 'professorial' during their online sessions:

https://vimeo.com/447645552

That forms the start point of my wide-ranging discussion with Andrew covering both his specialism of Communication and his area of research into how teams perform in high-pressure situations. We explore everything from how sports talk radio deliberately confects debates, to how we can train firefighters to be able to deal with situations that it would be too dangerous to allow them to rehearse in. We cover sport, risk management under COVID and the importance of Communication.

As regular listeners will know, the podcast doesn't follow a strict format, and this episode is no exception.

For more on Andrew and his research, visit his faculty page: https://www.scu.edu/cas/communication/faculty/andrew-ishak/

and personal website: http://www.andrewishak.com/

I also refer to the Compliance Communications Toolkit & the Human Risk Newsletter. More details on those are here: www.human-risk.com

When we think of risk, it is usually in the context of 'risk-taking'; in other words, an active decision to do something. But it is equally possible to take risk by doing nothing; passive risk. What differentiates the two and is passive risk really a risk?

That's what my guest this time Dr Johannes Lohse has been researching. In our discussion, we explore a recent paper he published with Dr Christian König-Kersting & Dr Anna Louisa Merkel on this very topic. You can find that here: https://ideas.repec.org/p/inn/wpaper/2020-04.html

This subject is highly relevant to Human Risk, which I define as "the risk of people doing things they shouldn't, or not doing things they should". In other words, both active and passive risk-taking by people.

You can find out more about Johannes' work here: https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/staff/profiles/business/lohse-johannes.aspx

Why are there so many entirely preventable financial disasters? And why don't the people behind the companies that suffer them, prevent them from happening?

That's what my guest Jérôme Tagger and I explore on this episode. He's the CEO of Preventable Surprises, a think-tank that seeks to prevent or at least mitigate corporate and market implosions. What he's dealing with is Human Risk on an epic scale.

Jérôme is also the co-founder and co-host of Breaking The Fever, a podcast and speaker series I've featured on the podcast before. His co-founder and co-host Alison Taylor, has also been on the show before talking about Ethics.

For more on:
Preventable Surprises: https://preventablesurprises.com/
Breaking The Fever: https://preventablesurprises.com/issues/covid-19-breaking-the-fever/
The episode of this podcast featuring Alison Taylor: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/alison-taylor-on-ethics/

For more on Human Risk:
Twitter account: https://twitter.com/humanriskblog
Newsletter: https://human-risk.com/newsletter-archive/
Video Channel: https://human-risk.com/videoblogs/

What, if anything, have we learned about human behaviour from COVID? That's what I'm exploring in this episode. Six months ago, my friend Mark Heywood invited me onto the first episode of Behind The Spine (BTS); a brand new podcast for writers that looks at genre & narrative. He wanted my thoughts about what impact COVID would have on human behaviour. You'll find that episode as a crosscast on this show.

Recently, Mark kindly invited me back for a "six months later" review to see whether my predictions had turned out to be correct. Fortunately, I didn't do too badly. So on this cross-cast episode, join me as Mark's guest, to explore 6 months of COVID from a behavioural perspective.

For more on Behind The Spine visit the podcast website: https://behindthespine.podbean.com/

On the show, Mark & I refer to a number of UK TV series. If you're not familiar with them, they're all well worth checking out:

Alan Partridge - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Partridge
Spitting Image - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_Image
The Thick Of It - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thick_of_It
The Room Next Door - https://www.michaelspicer.co.uk/
Dr Evil from Austin Powers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Evil

How can organizations ensure they are ethical? We all understand the principle, but what does it mean in practice? As Ethics becomes a more significant factor in how employees, customers and regulators view companies, there is an increasing need to have a program to manage it.

On this episode, I'm joined by Rob Chesnut, the former Chief Ethics Officer for AirBnB. Rob has just written a book about his experiences at AirBnb and eBay among other companies. In our wide-ranging discussion, we explore why ethics is such a challenging topic and what organizations can do to respond to it. Not only does Rob have some great stories to share, but he's also got some innovative ideas about managing the challenge.

For more on Rob and his book, Intentional Integrity visit his website: https://www.intentionalintegrity.com/

What is Human Risk? What does 'Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' mean in practice? On this episode, I'm cross-casting an episode of the Ethical Experts podcast that explores Human Risk.

The Ethics Experts (https://compliancepodcastnetwork.net/category/the-ethics-experts/) is hosted by Nick Gallo of Compliance Line (https://complianceline.com/).

As I'm often asked about Human Risk and what I mean by "bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance", I thought I'd share this episode with my own listeners. Hopefully, it'll bring the genesis of the Human Risk concept to life & spark further conversations and ideas.

We all instinctively know the impact negative reviews have on individuals and organizations; whether TripAdvisor ratings or publicly administered regulatory sanctions. It's not good. Yet there are many people and organisations thriving on precisely that. Sometimes, negative social evaluations, might actually not be a bad thing.

My guest, Dr Thomas Roulet of Cambridge University, has just written a book called 'The Power of Being Divisive; Understanding Negative Social Evaluations'. In our discussion, we explore why divisive politicians can benefit from negative perceptions and why banks who are publicly admonished for bad behaviour, can actually make more money. It's fascinating, often counter-intuitive stuff. In a world where all of us can rate others and be rated ourselves, understanding how we perceive ratings, is highly valuable.

For more on Thomas visit his website: https://www.thomasroulet.com/Thomas_Roulet.html
You'll also find him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thomroulet
His book The Power Of Being Divisive: https://bit.ly/34BEY1V

We all understand the idea of Confidence and that having it can help us succeed. Equally, not having it can also paralyse us into inaction. So what is the optimal level of confidence?

That's what my guest on this episode, Professor Don Moore, is here to help me understand. He's a professor at the Berkeley Haas School of Business, formerly at Carnegie Mellon. Don is an expert in psychology with his main research focus on overconfidence. And he's recently written a book on the subject called Perfectly Confident. In our discussion, we explore what the optimal balance of confidence is and how you can find it.

To find out more about Don and his book visit his website: https://perfectlyconfident.com/.

On this episode, I'm exploring an industry whose product we all sample daily, but probably don't fully understand: music. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, my guest, Dr Glenn Medeiros, was a global pop star with several hit records, including Nothings Gonna Change My Love For You. Perhaps surprisingly given that start, he's now the CEO and President of Saint Louis School in Honolulu, Hawaii.

In our discussion, we explore his experiences in the music industry and the lessons he's learned from it. Rest assured there's plenty of Human Risk there! We also look at how Glenn transitioned from music to education and what he's learned along the way.

This is a fascinating, frank exploration of what it is like to be propelled to global stardom and then building a second career. Glenn is also fabulous company and has some lovely anecdotes to share. Whether you remember him as an artist or have never heard of him before, what he has to say is highly insightful.

For more on Saint Louis School, where Glenn is President visit https://saintlouishawaii.org/

To watch Glenn's videos, including the iconic 'Nothings Gonna Change My Love For You" one or listen to his music, use the links below:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0bByarMN8ryEFQsRo6iCUN?si=8K584lWuSUueUVWMAigYEA

Nothings Gonna Change My Love For You - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHUVtwUdHuE
She Ain't Worth It (duet with Bobby Brown) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-1vYnFHu2U

We often think of our body and our mind as being somehow distinct, yet there is a strong linkage between mental health and physical wellbeing. That's what I explore with my guest Leanne Spencer on this episode. Leanne is the founder of Bodyshot Performance, a company that helps organisations to have happy, healthy & resilient teams and individuals with their own well being.

On the episode, we explore the links between mental and physical health and look at some of the techniques we can all use to manage it. We also explore how technology can help support us in that quest.

In our discussion, we refer to:
Leanne's company Bodyshot Performance - https://www.bodyshotperformance.com/
Her book Remove The Guesswork - https://www.bodyshotperformance.com/resource/remove-the-guesswork/
Leanne's podcast - https://www.bodyshotperformance.com/topic/podcasts/
Giulia Enders book Gut - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23013953-gut
The Oura Ring - https://ouraring.com/
Lost Connections by Johann Hari - https://thelostconnections.com/

What is ergodicity? If it's a new term to you, then listen to my guest Luca Dellanna explain why ergodic thinking is often at the heart of much of our flawed decision-making. This is Luca's second appearance on the show; in February he talked to me about COVID (https://www.spreaker.com/user/human-risk/luca-dellanna-podcast)

His insights were so prescient that I wanted him back. And as he's about to publish a new book on Ergodicity, I thought I'd cover both topics. As ever with Luca, he offers phenomenal insights that make complex topics, easily comprehensible.

For more on Luca visit his website: https://www.luca-dellanna.com/
You can follow him on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/DellAnnaLuca
To subscribe to Luca's highly recommended newsletter: https://www.luca-dellanna.com/newsletter/

For his new book on Ergodicity: https://gumroad.com/l/ergodicity

In our conversation, we refer to Roam, the note-taking website: https://roamresearch.com/

If you were looking for a sector that had lots of examples of Human Risk, then you'd probably pick banking? And if you were trying to understand why some of the senior people within banking hadn't been prevented from taking bad decisions, you'd probably look at people who were specifically hired for that purpose; non-executives.

That's what my guest this time, John Sutherland, explores in his new book Ensuring General Wisdom. John is a banking expert, who works as a Senior Adviser to one of the UK's Financial Services Regulators. While working for a UK Parliamentary Commission looking at the Banking Industry, John wondered whether what the role of the non-executives that Boards are required to have really is and whether it is reasonable for them to be expected to have an awareness of everything going on within the organisation.

This led him to research the role of Non-Executives and Trustees and how best for people in those roles to fulfil their function. What emerges are some fascinating insights that are of relevance to those who are, or aspire to be Non-Executives and those with an interest in managing Human Risk at senior level within organisations.

In our discussion, we explore how the book came about and John's thoughts on the banking industry and governance in general.

For details on John's book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52558412-ensuring-general-wisdom

You can find John's lectures here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/jasvidcast-video-webcasts/id1513012881

For more on the Banking Commission which prompted John's interest in the role of the non-executive: https://bit.ly/357WaxA

For more on the Three Lines of Defence model of Risk Management: https://bit.ly/2U3lmiu

What can the military teach business? Much as companies often talk about 'wars' (most obviously when it comes to talent) and 'battles' (usually for market share), it's not obvious that the two have much in common. Yet, from personal experience, there are lots of former military personnel using the same skills they've developed in their early career, in their second career in business. As this Economist article highlights: https://www.economist.com/business/2020/10/24/what-the-armed-forces-can-teach-business

In my ongoing quest to find interesting ideas in other contexts, I thought it would be a good idea to find out. So on this episode, I'm joined by two guests. One with a military background and one with a financial services background. Together, they provide some fascinating insights.

My first guest, Stuart Tootal spent 20 years in the British Army, where he commanded a Parachute Regiment battalion, which formed the first UK battle group that was sent to southern Afghanistan in 2006.

My second, Greg Davies, is a globally recognised expert in applied decision science, behavioural finance, and financial wellbeing, as well as a specialist in both the theory and practice of risk profiling.

Together, they help me explore how military decision-making and processes can help reduce Human Risk. What they have in common, is something you'll have to listen to the show to find out.

For more on Stuart visit - https://www.matero.co.uk/about/

For more on Greg visit - https://oxfordrisk.com/about-us/greg-b-davies/

During the show, I refer to other episodes of this podcast. You'll find them here:

Rory Sutherland - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/

Matt Edwards - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/matt-edwards-on-creative-risk-marketing/

Jill McDevitt - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/dr-jill-mcdevitt-on-sexology-condoms-masks/

Why is it so hard for us to admit mistakes? That's what my guest Stefan Gaillard & I explore in this episode. Stefan is the Editor of The Journal of Trial & Error, a project that seeks to promote the discussion of mistakes. Unlike traditional publications, The Journal actively seeks out things that have gone wrong is academic research, with the aim of learning from it.

If we want to have innovation, we need to accept trial and error. What Stefan and his colleagues have identified is that errors are more commonplace than we might think and yet we don't want to talk about them. During our discussion, we explore the genesis of the Journal and his experiences in attempting to publish things that aren't normally published.

It's a fascinating exploration fo a dynamic we all understand; the fact we're fallible and get things wrong. Yet we often don't want to talk about it. His experience is in academia, but it's highly relevant to all of us.

For more on the Journal visit the website: https://www.jtrialerror.com/the-manifesto-for-trial-and-error-in-science/

And if you're reading this before 30 November 2020, you can also join the launch party for the Journal here: https://bit.ly/36BvXa4

What is prejudice, why does it exist and why is it such a bad thing? That's what Economist Paul Donovan seeks to answer in his new book Profit & Prejudice. He explores it from an economic perspective, but prejudice is just as bad from a Human Risk perspective. Which is why he's the perfect guest for the Human Risk podcast.

In our discussion, Paul explains how he came to write what is a fascinating and highly readable book. He highlights why prejudice exists, why it is so pernicious and what he has learned from the experience of writing the book. If you've heard Paul speak before, you'll know you're in for a treat. If you haven't, rest assured he's insightful and entertaining.

For more on Profit & Prejudice visit the publishers' website: https://www.routledge.com/Profit-and-Prejudice-The-Luddites-of-the-Fourth-Industrial-Revolution/Donovan/p/book/9780367566777

Listeners who use the code HR25 will get 25% off the price.

You can also find Paul on Twitter at @PDonovan_econ (https://twitter.com/PDonovan_econ)

How can we get people to be more honest? That's what my guest on this episode, Dr Benny Cheung, set out to discover. He was commissioned to do so research for the UK's Insurance Fraud Bureau and ran some experiments to see if it would be possible to reduce opportunistic fraud in insurance processes using Behavioural Science. The results suggest that it is.

Given my personal experience with insurance hasn't always been positive, I thought this was worth exploring. So on this episode, I talk to Benny about his work and what we can learn from it. It's relevant to Human Risk, because if we can get people to change their behaviour when they're engaging with an industry they probably don't respect that much, then there are definitely lessons for Compliance, where the attitude may be somewhat similar.

In our discussion, I explore what we can learn from Benny's research and the other insights he's gleaned in his work.

For more on Benny and his company DecTech, visit https://www.dectech.co.uk/

You can read about his experiment here: https://dectech.co.uk/insurance-fraud-prevention/

In our conversation, we talk about Lemonade, an insurer that has a behaviourally-centric business model: www.lemonade.com

What are kleptocracies and how do they operate? How is dirty money laundered and why is it increasingly a global problem? These are the questions, my guest on this episode, Tom Burgis, sets out to answer in his book Kleptopia: How Dirty Money Is Conquering The World.

Tom is an investigative journalist who writes for the Financial Times. In Kleptopia, he follows the trail left by a Compliance Officer, later turned regulator. What he discovers is an extraordinary tale of Human Risk, that impacts all of us. In our discussion, we explore how he came to explore the story and what lessons we can learn from it. If you work in Compliance, Regulation, Auditing or Law, you'll recognise some of the dynamics Tom is describing. Even if you don't, the impact of kleptocracy is significant for all of us.

To see all the books recommended in this episode, including both of Tom's book, use these links to go to Bookshop.org. By buying from them, UK and US listeners can support their local independent bookshop

UK Link - https://uk.bookshop.org/lists/kleptopia-podcast-recommendations
US Link - https://bookshop.org/lists/kleptopia-podcast

What can we learn from religion about ethics? After all, religions have had rules about what people should and shouldn't be doing since well before the advent of Compliance & Ethics functions. And they're also familiar with the fact that codified rules can lead to challenges when it comes to the letter vs the spirit fo the law.

On this episode, my guest Rabbi Yonason Goldson, helps me explore this topic. Blending his knowledge of Scripture, with a fascinating life story, he brings fresh insight into how we can manage Ethics in the 21st Century. We may think we're living in unprecedented times, but previous generations have had to deal with similar issues; just in different contexts.

What Yonasan has to say is insightful and thought-provoking.

For more on him, visit his website: https://www.yonasongoldson.com/ where you'll also find details of his new book, Grappling With The Grey (https://www.yonasongoldson.com/books)

What can we learn from Behavioural Interventions that fail? That's what my guest on this episode, Dr Magda Osman set out to discover in some recent research. We often hear about 'nudges' that work well to change behaviour, but what about those that don't? Might things that haven't gone according to plan, actually prove to be useful?

The answer is 'yes'. And that's what Magda and I set out to explore in our discussion. Her research ethos is to "take a critical eye to well-accepted views and challenge the status quo". As a result, her research interests cover a range of areas that include decision-making, learning, problem-solving, biases, risk and uncertainty, agency and control, and the unconscious.

As well as her research, we also talk about Unconscious Bias training and explore other areas where behavioural interventions might not be as effective as we might expect.

For a summary of the research I recommend this article: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2258396-what-can-we-learn-from-failed-attempts-to-change-peoples-behaviour/

You'll find the research here: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tics.2020.09.009

For more on Magda and her research, visit her website: http://www.magdaosmanresearch.co.uk/

What happens when employees have little or no respect for their organization's Compliance Program? It's obviously bad, but how bad? That's what my guest on this episode Professor David Hess has researched. And the answer is 'really bad'; far from it simply being a case of wasted money and effort, it actually increases the likelihood of unethical behaviour. How this happens, and what we can do to prevent it, is what we discuss in this episode. David also shares some of his perspectives on Compliance and how the function can be more effective in delivering its mandate.

David Hess is a Professor of Business Law and Business Ethics at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. His research focuses primarily on the role of the law in ensuring corporate accountability. His publications in this area have analyzed the use of non-financial reporting by corporations; efforts to combat corruption in international business; the link between corruption and business and human rights; and the role of compliance and ethics programs in creating more ethical corporate cultures.

To find out more about David's research visit his website: http://webuser.bus.umich.edu/dwhess/

You can read David's article Chipping Away at Compliance: How Compliance Programs Lose Legitimacy and its Impact on Unethical Behavior here: https://brooklynworks.brooklaw.edu/bjcfcl/vol14/iss1/4/

What's the difference between Risk and Uncertainty? That's what my guest on this episode, Dr Colin Lawrence, helps me to explore. He's spent his entire career looking at risk and has been a Chief Risk Officer, Regulator, Risk Adviser and Academic. So he's got real experience of what it means to consider risk and manage it.

In the episode, we explore what risk means in the context of COVID, water shortages, geopolitics, history and a number of social trends. Colin provides some fascinating insights that will stimulate your mind and get you thinking about risk in new ways. A common manifestation of Human Risk, is an inability to manage risk; the very things that get us into trouble, are the very things that make us bad at managing risk!

You can find out more about Colin and get in touch with him via LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-lawrence-non-executive-director-board-advisor/

or via email colin.lawrence[at]riskandfinancial.com
During our discussion, Colin mentions a number of books:

Professor Yuval Noah Harari - 'Lessons for the 21st Century'.
https://uk.bookshop.org/books/21-lessons-for-the-21st-century/9781784708283

Kim Stanley Robinson - 'The Ministry of the Future'
https://uk.bookshop.org/books/the-ministry-for-the-future/9780356508832

Robert Harris - 'Munich'
https://uk.bookshop.org/books/munich-the-price-of-peace-may-be-too-high-to-bear/9781784751852

He also highlights two articles:

A New Yorker article on the water shortage in Cape Town:
https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/coming-to-terms-with-a-life-without-water

A NY Times article on the lawyer who set up her own law firm to allow her to fulfil her parenting obligations:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/business/a-woman-led-law-firm-that-lets-partners-be-parents.html

And finally a podcast by Ezra Klein on Vox: https://www.vox.com/ezra-klein-show-podcast

What can learn from the study of Behavioural Science? Like many people in the field, I fell into BeSci long after finishing my academic studies. Back then, it wasn't an option that one could study in any case. But now you can, which is why I thought it would be interesting to get a forward-looking perspective from those that are.

On this episode, I speak to Sarah Bowen & Merle Van Den Akker. They're both PhD students with a strong interest in Behavioural Science and they're the hosts of Questioning Behaviour, a BeSci podcast that explores things from the perspective of those studying and researching it. In addition, in her Money On The Mind blog, Merle explores the BeSci dynamics behind the financial decisions we make.

Our discussion explores their thoughts on the study of BeSci and where things might go in future.

Questioning Behaviour - https://questioningbehaviour.podbean.com/

Money On The Mind - https://www.moneyonthemind.org/

How can we prevent poor decision-making at a time of stress, when human action can make a real difference? That's what my guest on this episode, Trisha Ferguson, helps to deliver. She's the CEO of Interaction Research Company (IRC), a firm that advises airlines on passenger safety. And more importantly, from my perspective, designs and produces passenger safety cards.

I'm interested in the cards because they effortlessly combine artistic design with a high degree of functionality. Not only are they an amazing piece of Compliance design, they’re also a critical tool for mitigating Human Risk. Which is why they’re a regulatory requirement. If a plane doesn’t have safety cards on board, then it’s not allowed to take off. That’s because one of the biggest risks, when there’s an incident on an aircraft, is human - how we react, makes all the difference.

So if you were looking for something iconic that neatly summarised Human Risk and my mission to bring behavioural science to compliance, then the airline safety card is probably it. Which is why I wanted to find out more about how the cards are created and approved for use.

In our discussion, we explore the history of IRC and how Trisha came to own the company. She explains the complexities involved in making the cards and the factors that need to be considered. We explore the psychology behind the design and the process they go through to get them into planes.

Airline Safety Cards are also the inspiration for the soon-to-relaunch www.human-risk.com which will have an airline safety card theme.

For more on IRC visit - https://ircprint.com/ and http://safetycards.com/#about
For Trisha's blog visit - https://ircprint.com/2020/06/30/intro-crisis/

When things go wrong in companies, it's usually accompanied by a sense of surprise on the part of senior management. Given we know that employing people will result in some form of Human Risk, wouldn't it be better if we could find a way to ensure there were no surprises? At least, not in areas where controls exist to mitigate the risk.

That's what my guest Jim Oates explores with me on this episode. He's spent his career working in audit in Financial Services, so he's seen plenty of examples of the aftermath of things not going according to plan. His experience as an auditor led him to adopt a strategy of "No Surprises"; working to ensure the Board of Directors of the company aren't surprised by a significant loss or damage to the firm's reputation, due to an unexpected control failure.

In our discussion, we explore some of the events that shaped Jim's career and what he learned from them. The insights he shares about human decision-making and how audit can help to mitigate the risks it poses are fascinating and very timely.

Jim also played an important part in furthering my thinking about Human Risk. He was my boss at UBS when I evolved the idea of "Bringing Behavioural Science to Compliance" and supported me in pursuing the idea. As one of of the early sponsors of the ideas behind it, it's very fitting to have him as a guest on the podcast.

To find out more about Jim and his work, visit his website: https://www.eventumrisk.com/

During our discussion, Jim refers to:

- CDOs: https://www.thebalance.com/cdos-collateralized-debt-obligations-3305822

- LIBOR: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19199683

- Kweku Adoboli: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19660659

On the face of it, the creative industry ought to be very good at adapting it's thinking. After all, people who can think creatively, ought to be able to adapt the way they do things. But, as we've seen during the pandemic, the creative industries are facing similar problems to other businesses: a lack of diversity, business models that are heavily reliant on particular income streams and in some cases, a real existential threat. What is happening and what can the arts do to recover? And what might business learn from the arts and vice versa? That's what I explore with my guest on this episode, Mark Heywood.

In March 2019, Mark joined me on the podcast to explore how COVID was impacting the creative industries. There's a link to that episode below. Given so much has happened since then, I thought I'd get him back for an update and to explore how the pandemic has highlighted some of the Human Risk dynamics inherent in the creative industries. In our discussion, we catch up on what Mark's been up to since we last spoke and explore the challenges an industry that has often survived without always adapting to the changes in society. As ever, his insights into an industry he cares passionately about, are fascinating. Both generally, but also from a Human Risk perspective.

On the episode, Mark mentioned a number of things, details for which are below:
- His show at London's biggest arts festival that was due to tour: https://vaultfestival.com/whats-on/rhubarb-ghetto/
- Online Theatre producers The Show Must Go Online: https://robmyles.co.uk/theshowmustgoonline/
- The National Theatre At Home: https://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/ntathome
- Chris Rock's opening monologue at the 2016 Oscars: https://youtu.be/kqhVNZgZGqQ

The two podcasts Mark is involved with are:
- Behind The Spine: https://www.behindthespine.co.uk/
- End Of The Line: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-z7pk5-e30e3d?

You can hear Mark's previous appearance on the Human Risk podcast here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/mark-heywood-on-how-the-coronavirus-is-impacting-the-creative-industries/

How do networks influence our decision-making?

As the Human Risk podcast approached its 100th episode, I thought I’d invite back two guests whose previous appearances have been amongst the most downloaded. And I’m glad I did. Because what Rory Sutherland and Gerald Ashley delivered, wasn’t worthy of a single episode - it was worthy of two!

So on this, the 99th episode of the podcast, I’m sharing Part I of their conversation. In it, they explore a subject they’ve both written about - networks. We all naturally like to make connections between things - sometimes that can be extremely useful, but it can also lead to flawed decision-making.

As many of my listeners will be familiar with Rory and Gerald, I haven’t included introductions. You can find those, if you need them, on their previous appearances on the show.

Gerald’s first appearance is here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/

Rory first appearance is here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/

What makes both such fantastic guests, is that they have lots of stories to tell; in doing so, they often make references that might not be as obvious to listeners not based in the UK.

For that reason, I’ve included much more detailed show notes than usual. If you come across something you’re unfamiliar with, then the timestamps below will hopefully help.

When you’ve listened to this, look out for Part II of their discussion, available wherever you found this shortly after the initial release.


5:35 Rory references a joke involving sheep. He explains it here: - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-wiki-man-11-september-2010

5:41 Rory mentions disgraced former children’s TV presenter Jimmy Saville. Read his story here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile_sexual_abuse_scandal

6:18 Rory talks about the Tube map. Londoners refer to their subway as “The Tube”, and the map of it is “the Tube Map”. You can read about its history and see it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_map

10:00 Rory highlights the Danish Mask Study, which emanated from Denmark, and showed that mask-wearing was ineffective. However, that relied on a particular (wrong!) interpretation of the data. This Twitter thread by Nassim Taleb (https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1331639626101104642?lang=en) and this British Medical Journal article explain why - https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4586


10:36 Rory talks about the tragic case of Sally Clark, a solicitor. You can read her story here - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/mar/17/childrensservices.uknews

12:01 Gerald mentions advertiser Maurice Saatchi, who ate an egg only diet. His wife Nigella Lawson, a chef, revealed some details - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1063289/Nigellas-husband-cracks-obesity-thanks-egg-diet.html

13:30 Rory highlighted how we have persisted with stemmed wine glasses, inspire of them being somewhat ludicrous. Here's an article he wrote about it - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-ludicrousness-of-stemmed-wine-glasses

15:52 Gerald says he’s not sure what MiniDisc or Blu-Ray are. Here’s what he can read to find out more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

16:48 Rory talks about Geoffrey Miller’s research into evolution. You can read that here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235362665_The_Mating_Mind_How_Sexual_Choice_Shaped_the_Evolution_of_Human_Nature and his website is here: https://www.primalpoly.com/

19:38 Rory mentions two UK crime series Waking The Dead and Inspector Morse. More on those here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waking_the_Dead_(TV_series) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Morse_(TV_series)

22:10 Gerald mentions the Rabbit phone which Rory used to own. Read about that here - https://londonist.com/london/technology/remember-phone-zones-the-mobile-experiment-that-ended-in-disaster

22:49 In his story about the Rabbit phone, Rory talks about the Happy Eater on A40 at Burford. Happy Eater was a chain of roadside restaurants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eater), and you’ll find the story of the Burford one here: https://littlechef.fandom.com/wiki/Burford

23:45 Rory highlights Harris Tweed as an under-appreciated invention. Find out more about that here: https://www.harristweed.org/

24:35 Gerald talks about the BBC Microcomputer (what he calls the “Acorn Computer”) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro. Here’s the story from The BBC about it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15969065

25:09 Gerald talks about the Domesday Project, a modern version of the Domesday book (an 11th Century Census of England). It is often cited as a great example of technological obsolesce in action: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project


26:38 Rory highlights Nassim Taleb’s Minority Rules idea, which is explained by Taleb here: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15

28:34 Rory mentions Pimms, which is an alcoholic drink, typically drunk in summer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimm%27s

28:56 The French Complexity Scientist Rory mentions is Serge Galam. Read more about him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Galam

29:49 Rory highlights KFC Australia’s Build Your Own Bucket invention - https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2336891243302188

30:08 Rory uses the term “Lindy”. It was coined by Nassim Taleb, and he explains it here: https://medium.com/incerto/an-expert-called-lindy-fdb30f146eaf

30:58 Rory talks about the NHS - the UK’s National Health Service, which is free at the point of delivery. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service
You can read more about their reliance on fax machines here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46497526

31:04 Gerald talks about Marmite, a yeast-based spread. Read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite and then see how they use the idea of loving it or hating it here:

33:56 Rory mentions The Wason Test, a problem-solving test, which you can explore here: https://www.indy100.com/discover/the-simple-test-that-shows-how-logical-you-are-7302601

33:57 He then highlights Cosmides & Toobey’s version of The Wason Test - https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201205/making-sense-wason

36:36 Gerald talks about Squadcast, which is the recording software I use to record this podcast - https://app.squadcast.fm/

37:47 Gerald talks about China’s Social Credit System. More on that in this article - https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained

38:45 Rory talks about the transport links in Kent, a county in the South East of the UK. Read more about it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent

43:14 Gerald and Rory highlight some older video technologies; VHS, Betamax & Video 2000. More on those here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_2000. You can read about the video format wars here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war


43:54 Rory talks about how adult entertainment impacts technology. Read more about that here - https://thenextweb.com/hard-core-high-tech/2016/08/30/porn-pioneers-adult-entertainment-boosts-technology/