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The Application Security Podcast (Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut)

Explore every episode of The Application Security Podcast

Dive into the complete episode list for The Application Security Podcast. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.

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1–50 of 273

Pub. DateTitleDuration
09 Feb 2022Neil Matatall -- AppSec at Scale00:39:13

Neil Matatall is an engineer with a background in security. He has previously worked at GitHub and Twitter and is a co-founder of Loco Moco Product Security Conference. Neil joins us for his second visit, to discuss account security at scale. He describes the underlying principles behind security at scale, how he worked to build a sign-in analysis feature, and how attacks were detected. We ended the conversation with an authentication lightning round, with Neil responding to various statements about authentication off the cuff! We hope you enjoy this episode with Neil Matatall.

Check out our previous conversation with Neil Matatall. 
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1730684/8122595-neil-matatall-content-security-policy

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16 Feb 2022Will Ratner -- Centralized container scanning00:42:15

Will Ratner is a software security professional with extensive experience building and implementing security solutions across a myriad of industries including banking, media, construction, and information technology. In his current role at Atlassian, Will focuses on improving the vulnerability management process by building highly scalable and automated solutions for the enterprise. Will joins us to discuss a centralized approach he built for container scanning. We explore the challenges and lessons learned, building a scalable, enterprise-grade solution, and how to build something that developers will see value in. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Will Ratner.

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09 Mar 2022Brenna Leath -- Product Security Leads: A different way of approaching Security Champions00:33:11

Brenna Leath is currently the Head of Product Security for a data analytics company where she sets the application security strategy for R&D and leads a team of security architects. Brenna originally joined us to talk about EO 14028 and the implications for private sector programs, BUT, we were chatting about security champions and product security leads, and we changed our focus to cover these topics instead. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Brenna Leath.

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15 Mar 2022Alex Mor -- Application Risk Profiling at Scale00:42:46

Alex Mor is a passionate cybersecurity defender or breaker depending on the time of day, providing expert technical guidance to product teams and building security in their platforms. Alex joins us to talk about application risk profiling. He defines what this concept is to help us understand it. Then we talk about how can you do application risk profiling at scale? Whether you have ten applications or 1500 applications? How do you bring this together and gain real true security value from this idea of profiling your applications? We hope you enjoyed this conversation with Alex Mor.

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19 Apr 2022Josh Grossman -- Building a High-Value AppSec Scanning Program00:43:00

Josh Grossman has over 15 years of experience in IT Risk and Application Security consulting, and he has also worked as a software developer. He currently works as CTO for Bounce Security, where he focuses on helping organizations build secure products by providing value-driven Application Security support and guidance.
In his spare time, he is very involved with OWASP. He is on the OWASP Israel chapter board, he is a co-leader of the OWASP Application Security Verification Standard project, and he has contributed to various other projects as well, including the Top 10 Risks, Top Ten Proactive Controls and JuiceShop projects. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Josh Grossman.

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25 Apr 2022Omer Gil and Daniel Krivelevich -- Top 10 CI/CD Security Risks00:50:40

Daniel Krivelevich is a cybersecurity expert and problem solver, with 15+ years of enterprise security experience with a proven track record working with 100+ enterprises across multiple industries, with a strong orientation to Application & Cloud Security. Daniel co-Founded Cider Security as the company’s CTO. Cider is a startup focused on securing CI/CD pipelines, flows, and systems.

Omer is a seasoned application and cloud security expert with over 13 years of experience across multiple security disciplines. An experienced researcher and public speaker, Omer discovered the Web Cache Deception attack vector in 2017. Omer leads research at Cider Security.

We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Omer and Daniel. 

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03 May 2022Patrick Dwyer -- CycloneDX and SBOMs00:28:33

Patrick is a Senior Product Security Engineer in the Application Security team at ServiceNow. He is also Co-Leader of the OWASP CycloneDX project. A lightweight Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) standard designed for use in application security contexts and supply chain component analysis.

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10 May 2022Kristen Tan and Vaibhav Garg -- Machine Assisted Threat Modeling00:46:17

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, we talk to Kristen Tan and Vaibhav Garg from Comcast. They wrote a paper called "An Analysis of Open-source Automated Threat Modeling Tools and Their Extensibility from Security into Privacy".  They join us to share their story about what they were doing and why they did it. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Kristen and VG. 

https://www.usenix.org/publications/loginonline/analysis-open-source-automated-threat-modeling-tools-and-their

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02 Jun 2022Chris Romeo -- The Security Journey Story00:27:13

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, Chris Romeo walks through the origin story of Security Journey and shares some experiences taking a security startup from bootstrap to acquisition. Chris talks about how and why he started the company, what defining factors made Security Journey successful and why they're being acquired now. He ends by giving an overview of what to expect from Security Journey moving forward. We hope you enjoy this conversation with…Chris Romeo.

Check out these resources for more information about the acquisition!
Press Release: https://www.accesswire.com/702562/HackEDU-Acquires-Security-Journey-to-Provide-the-Most-Comprehensive-Application-Security-Training-Offering-Helping-Development-Teams-Deliver-Secure-Code-and-Protect-Data

Chris's Blog Post: https://www.securityjourney.com/post/hackedu-acquires-security-journey

Joe's Blog Post: https://www.hackedu.com/blog/hackedu-acquires-security-journey-to-create-industry-leading-application-security-offering

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25 Jul 2022Hillel Solow -- How to do AppSec without a security team00:33:52

Hillel Solow is Chairman of the Board at ProtectOnce, where he helps guide product and security strategy. Hillel is a serial entrepreneur in the cybersecurity space, but his favorite thing is still writing code at 2 am. 

Hillel joins us to discuss how to do appsec without a security team. We explore the building blocks of an appsec program, and what appsec looks like for companies of different sizes, from startup to midsize to enterprise.  Then dive into Hillel's most important advice for companies who can't afford a security person. We hope you enjoy this conversation with… Hillel Solow. 

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09 Aug 2022Dominique Righetto -- OWASP Secure Headers00:27:53

Dominique Righetto is an AppSec enthusiast and OWASP projects contributor. Dominique joins us to discuss the OWASP Secure Headers project. We discuss headers at a high level and then dive into all the goodies you'll find within the project, from awareness, guidance, and a test suite that can be integrated into your CI/CD pipeline to test your security headers. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Dominique Righetto.

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16 Aug 2022Chen Gour-Arie -- The AppSec Map00:33:37

Chen Gour-Arie is the Chief Architect and Co-Founder of Enso Security. With over 15 years of hands-on experience in cybersecurity and software development, Chen demonstrably bolstered the software security of dozens of global enterprise organizations across multiple industry verticals. An enthusiastic builder, he has focused his career on building tools to optimize and accelerate security testing and all related workflows. Ken joins us to introduce the AppSec Map and provides a live demo of the catalog and what AppSec practitioners can use it for. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Chen Gour-Arie.

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30 Aug 2022Brett Smith -- Security is a Necessary Evil00:43:36

Brett Smith is a Software Architect/Engineer/Developer with 20+ years of experience. Specialties: Automation, Continuous Integration/Delivery/Testing/Deployment 
Expertise: Linux, packaging, and tool design. Brett joins us to discuss why he hates security and shares his vast knowledge of building a secure and cutting-edge build pipeline. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Brett Smith.

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23 Sep 2022Guy Barhart-Magen -- Log4j and Incident Response00:43:45

With nearly 25 years of experience in the cyber-security industry, Guy held various positions in both corporates and startups.
In his role as the CTO for the cyber crisis management firm Profero, his focus is making incident response fast and scalable, harnessing the latest technologies and a cloud-native approach.
Guy is the BSidesTLV chairman and CTF lead, a Public speaker in well-known global security events (SAS, t2, 44CON, BSidesLV, and several DefCon villages, to name a few), and the recipient of the Cisco “black belt” security ninja honor – Cisco’s highest cybersecurity advocate rank.
Guy joins us to explore his front-row seat for the incident response with Log4j. There are many AppSec lessons to learn by understanding the greater depth of Log4J. We hope you enjoy this episode with .... Guy Barhart-Magen.

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01 Nov 2022Nick Aleks and Dolev Farhi -- GraphQL Security00:43:40

Dolev Farhi is a security engineer and author with extensive experience leading security engineering teams in complex environments and scales in the Fintech and cyber security industries. Currently, he is the Principal Security Engineer at Wealthsimple. He is one of the founders of DEFCON Toronto (DC416). He enjoys researching vulnerabilities in IoT devices, participating in and building CTF challenges and contributing exploits to Exploit-DB.

Nick Aleks is a leader in Toronto's cybersecurity community and a distinguished and patented security engineer, speaker, and researcher. He is currently the Senior Director of Security at Wealthsimple, leads his security firm, ASEC.IO, and is a Senior Advisory Board member for HackStudent, George Brown, and the University of Guelph's Master of Cybersecurity and Threat Intelligence programs. A founder of DEFCON Toronto, he specializes in offensive security and penetration testing. He has over ten years of experience hacking everything from websites, safes, locks, cars, drones, and even intelligent buildings.

Dolev and Nick join us to unpack the world of GraphQL security. We introduce GraphQL, threats, and mitigations to secure your GraphQL instances. We hope you enjoy this conversation with....Dolev and Nick.


Important Links:

Link to the book → https://nostarch.com/black-hat-graphql

CrackQL → https://github.com/nicholasaleks/CrackQL

Damn Vulnerable GraphQL Application → https://github.com/dolevf/Damn-Vulnerable-GraphQL-Application

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08 Nov 2022Sam Stepanyan -- OWASP Nettacker Project00:46:32

Sam Stepanyan is an OWASP London Chapter Leader and an Independent Application Security Consultant with over 20 years of IT experience and a background in software engineering and web application development. 

Sam has worked for various financial services institutions in the City of London, specializing in Application Security consulting, Secure Software Development Lifecycle (SDLC), developer training, source code reviews and vulnerability management. He is also a Subject Matter Expert in Web Application Firewalls (WAF) and SIEM systems. Sam holds a Master’s degree in Software Engineering and a CISSP certification. 

Sam joins us to introduce us to OWASP Nettacker. He describes the tool's capabilities, how you can put it into use in various scenarios for asset generation and vuln scanning, and how to contribute to the project going forward. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Sam Stepanyan.

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29 Nov 2022Wolfgang Goerlich -- Security beyond vulnerabilities00:40:28

J. Wolfgang Goerlich is an Advisory CISO for Cisco Secure. He has been responsible for IT and IT security in the healthcare and financial services verticals. Wolfgang has led advisory and assessment practices for cybersecurity consulting firms. 

Wolf joins us to talk about some security things that will stretch your mind, like security beyond vulnerabilities, how apps intended functionality can be misused, data privacy, and nudges and behavior science. 

Wolf challenged my thinking in this episode and pointed out a new area of threat modeling I had never considered. We hope you enjoy this conversation with... J. Wolfgang Goerlich.

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06 Dec 2022Tiago Mendo -- How to scan at scale with OWASP ZAP00:32:14

Tiago Mendo is a co-founder and CTO of Probely. He has extensive experience in pentesting applications, training, and providing all-around security consultancy. 

Tiago started working with security in the early 2000s, beginning with a tenure of 12 years at Portugal Telecom. While there, he built the web security team and worked with 150+ developers. He holds a Master's in Information Technology/Information Security from Carnegie Mellon University and a CISSP certification. 

He is also a qualified member of AP2SI, a non-profit organization that promotes Information Security in Portugal, and Co-Leader of the Lisbon OWASP Chapter. He is a frequent speaker at security events, such as Confraria da Segurança da Informação, BSides Lisbon, BSides Kraków and LASCON. 

Tiago Mendo joins us to discuss OWASP ZAP and DAST scanning at scale. Tiago shares what scanning at scale is, the common challenges development teams must overcome when scanning at scale, and how to overcome them using OWASP ZAP. We hope you enjoy this conversation with ... Tiago Mendo.

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13 Dec 2022Mark Curphey -- The future of OWASP00:41:09

Mark Curphey is one of the creators of OWASP from the very early days. Mark worked in the background over the few decades of OWASP but has recently taken more to the spotlight. After running, he was elected and joined the OWASP Board of Directors. 

This conversation starts with the historical story of Mark and his history with OWASP. Then we jump into the visions for OWASP in the future and the plans in place to reach those goals. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Mark Curphey.

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20 Dec 2022Alex Olsen -- Security champions, empowering developers, and AppSec training00:59:16

Alex leads the Cyber Security Consulting Group, part of Rakuten's Cyber Security Defense Department. The group's dedication is to providing global security services, including security architecture, DevSecOps tooling and integration services, delivery of technical training, and running Rakuten's Security Champion community. His focus is on empowering teams to improve security throughout the development lifecycle.

Alex joins us to discuss security champions, a topic near and dear to our hearts. We get into democratizing appsec, the value of security governance and empowerment activities for security champions and the organization, how scope, cost and effort fit, and the ROI of training and security champions. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Alex Olsen.

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03 Jan 2023Michael Bargury -- Low Code / No Code Security and an OWASP Top Ten00:47:16

Michael Bargury is the Co-Founder and CTO of Zenity, where he helps companies secure their low-code/no-code apps. In the past, he headed security product efforts at Azure, focused on IoT, APIs and IaC. 

Michael is passionate about all things related to cloud, SaaS and low-code security and spends his time finding ways they could go wrong. He also leads the OWASP low-code security project and writes about it on DarkReading. Michael is a regular speaker at OWASP, BSides and DEFCON conferences. 

Michael joins us to unpack Low Code / No Code and the new OWASP Top Ten that defines specific risks against Low/No Code. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Michael Bargury.

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10 Jan 2023Robyn Lundin -- Planning & organizing a penetration test as an AppSec team00:29:23

Robyn Lundin started working in tech after a coding boot camp as a developer for a small startup. She then discovered her passion for security, pivoted into pentesting for NCC Group, and now works as a Senior Product Security Engineer for Slack. 

Robyn joins us to discuss the role of penetration testing within the application security realm. Robyn provides actionable guidance you can apply directly to your application pen testing program. We hope you enjoy this conversation with....Robyn Lundin.

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23 Feb 2023Rob van der Veer -- OWASP AI Security & Privacy Guide00:42:54

Rob van der Veer has a 30-year background in software engineering, building AI businesses, creating software, and assessing software. He is a senior director at the Software Improvement Group, where he established practices for AI, security, and privacy. Rob is involved in several standardization initiatives like OWASP SAMM, ENISA, CIP, and AI security & privacy guide. He leads the writing group for the new ISO standard on AI engineering: 5338. Rob co-leads the OWASP integration project, with openCRE.org as a key result, aiming to create alignment in the standards landscape. Rob joins us to introduce the OWASP AI Security and Privacy Guide. We cover Rob's observations on how AI engineering differs from regular software engineering, typical software engineering pitfalls for AI engineers, the new guide's scope, threats introduced with AI, and mitigations that orgs and teams can use to build a secure AI system. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Rob van der Veer.

Show Notes:

  • Visit the OWASP Security & Privacy Guide here --> https://owasp.org/www-project-ai-security-and-privacy-guide/

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02 Mar 2023Derek Fisher -- The Application Security Handbook00:41:33

Derek is the author of “The Application Security Handbook.” He is a university instructor at Temple University, where he teaches software development security to undergraduate and graduate students. He is a speaker on topics in the cybersecurity space and has led security teams, large and small, at organizations in the healthcare and financial industries. Derek joins us to unpack the goals of an application security program, what is cutting edge in application security programs today, the role of open source vs. commercial, and guidance such as "decentralized application security." "enablement instead of gates; application security as a service," and "stop chasing the shiny new tool." We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Derek Fisher.

Find the book at https://www.manning.com/books/application-security-program-handbook

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09 Mar 2023James Mckee -- Developer Security00:38:13

James Mckee is a developer (MCPDEA) and security advocate (CISSP) whose biggest responsibility is leading developer security practices. He sets the standards and procedures for the practice's operations and leads all client engagement efforts concerning security. He also takes the lead in ensuring that company staff (developers specifically) are properly trained and following best practices concerning application security. Currently, he is responsible for training and providing product guidance for developers worldwide. James joins us to discuss offensive application security for developers. We also get into the role of security professionals in reaching developers outside of the security echo chamber. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...James Mckee.

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16 Mar 2023Jet Anderson -- The AppSec Code Doctor00:38:55

Jet Anderson's passion is teaching today's software developers to write secure code as part of modern DevOps pipelines, at speed and scale, without missing a beat. He's been a software engineer for over 25 years and believes fixing security bugs is better than finding them. Jet joins us to discuss software or security engineer first, how fixing security bugs is better than just finding them, and the Code Doctor security training program he built and deployed. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Jet Anderson.

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23 Mar 2023Sarah-jane Madden -- Threat Modeling to established teams00:43:11

Sarah-Jane Madden is the Chief Information Security Officer of Sensing Technology Group. - part of Fortive. She has over 20 years of software experience, from the most formal environments to ‘let’s fix it in production’ type teams. She has been a longtime advocate of deliberate application security as a partnership with product management and believes security does not have to be an overhead. Sarah-Jane joins us to discuss her talk at OWASP Dublin, "Far from green fields — introducing Threat Modeling to established teams." She shares lessons learned from her 3-year journey and is transparent with the mistakes she made along the way. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Sarah-jane Madden.

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03 Apr 2023Zohar Shachar -- Bug Bounty from Both Sides00:36:27

Zohar Shachar joins us to discuss the bug bounty process from both sides. Zohar has spent time as a bug bounty hunter and shares wisdom on avoiding bug bounty-causing issues for your AppSec posture. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Zohar Shachar.

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18 Apr 2023Christian Frichot -- Threat Modeling with hcltm00:49:27

Christian Frichot, an AppSec hacker, security leader, and developer of hcltm. He discusses the DevOps threat modeling tool he dreamed up and built. The tech was created to fit into developers' workflows and leverage tools they are familiar with. hcltm is designed to drive valuable change and be updated and maintained easily by software engineers. It is a developer-centric software product not heavily opinionated on diagramming, allowing users to employ their preferred methods for threat modeling. The solution is still evolving, and Frichot is open to user feedback and suggestions to improve it. He encourages people to try hcltm and see if it fits their threat modeling needs, as everyone approaches the process differently.

Critical actions for you to take from this episode:

  1. Try out hcltm: familiarize yourself with the hcltm threat modeling tool, which uses HashiCorp Configuration Language (HCL) to help manage threat models alongside software code in a developer-friendly way.
  2. Integrate threat modeling into your workflow: As a developer or security professional, explore ways to incorporate threat modeling into your current processes, such as using hcltm to manage threat models in a software repo and updating the model with each change.
  3. Improve communication and collaboration: learn from Christian's experience and focus on building relationships and networks in the security community and improving communication and influencing skills.

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03 May 2023Tony Turner -- Threat Modeling and SBOM00:44:12

Have you ever considered using an SBOM to inform your threat modeling? Tony Turner has. Tony joins us to discuss SBOMs, threat modeling, and the importance of Cyber Informed Engineering. 

Tony delves into the SBOM (Software Bill of Materials) concept, highlighting their value proposition in identifying vulnerabilities, demonstrating compliance with software licenses, and informing M&A activities and incident response indicators related to cyberattacks. We also explore the integration of SBOMs into the system engineering process and security engineering.

Tony further introduces the concept of Consequence-Driven Cyber Informed Engineering, which emphasizes understanding the potential consequences of cyberattacks on critical infrastructure rather than just on individuals or individual businesses. We discuss the four-step process of consequence-driven CIE. The conversation also addresses the challenges in communicating SBOM information, the importance of demanding transparency from suppliers, and the need to place trust in trusted third-party attestations.

Follow up:

- Research tools for integrating SBOMs into threat modeling
- Explore methods of communicating SBOM information
- Investigate Cyber Informed Engineering and Consequence-Driven principles in more detail

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15 May 2023Jeevan Singh -- The Future of Application Security Engineers00:46:58

Jeevan Singh, the director of product security at Twilio, discusses the future of application security engineers. Singh highlights the importance of embedding security into all aspects of software development and the need for a strong security culture within organizations. He also explains the skills required for a senior application security engineer, such as application security, software development, and teaching skills. Singh underscores the importance of empathy and influence, emphasizing that soft skills can significantly affect adequate application security. He also discusses the impact of AI, particularly OpenAI's GPT, in supporting the work of security engineers by providing valuable insights and information. Singh concludes by urging application security engineers to broaden their skills, particularly in software development, to ensure they can effectively handle the industry's evolving demands.

Five takeaways:

  1. The future of application security engineering requires a blend of skills: Application Security (AppSec), software development, and teaching skills. Communicating and teaching others about security best practices is becoming as important as technical know-how.
  2. The role of application security engineers is evolving: They are expected to identify and fix security issues and embed security considerations into the entire software development process. They are also tasked with educating other staff on security best practices.
  3. Empathy and influence are crucial soft skills for application security engineers: It's essential to understand the perspectives of various stakeholders, from developers to executives, and influence them to prioritize security. This involves presenting data effectively and advocating for security measures.
  4. Future demand for application security engineers is anticipated. As organizations increasingly realize the importance of securing their applications, there will be a growing need for professionals in this field. This is particularly the case for startups and smaller organizations.
  5. Scaling application security efforts requires a team-based approach: To keep pace with growing engineering teams and increasing security demands, application security efforts must be scaled. This could involve creating "security champions" within development teams, implementing automated tools, and involving executive leadership to incentivize security improvements.

Jeevan's first appearance on the Application Security Podcast was entitled Jeevan Singh -- Threat modeling based in democracy.

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01 Jun 2023Joshua Wells -- Application Security in the Age of Zero Trust00:39:45

What is zero trust, and how does it impact the world of applications and application security? We dive deep into zero trust with Joshua Wells, a seasoned cybersecurity expert with over ten years of experience. Joshua explores the intricacies of zero trust, a cybersecurity model that dictates no user or machine is trusted by default and must be authenticated every time.

Listen in as Joshua discusses his journey from aspiring to be an NFL player to becoming a leading voice in cybersecurity. He shares insights on how zero trust operates in different domains, including architectural security, endpoint detection, mobile device management, and risk assessment. He also touches on its implementation across various government bodies and private organizations.

Further, Joshua sheds light on the challenges of implementing zero trust, such as the need for a mix of different security tools and the stress of smaller teams when handling this robust framework. The episode also covers important considerations for Application Security (AppSec) professionals in a zero-trust environment and the role of attribute-based access control within this model.

Don't miss this enlightening discussion on cybersecurity's current landscape and future direction. Whether you're a cybersecurity professional, a tech enthusiast, or simply keen on understanding how your data is being kept secure, this episode will surely provide invaluable insights.

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07 Jun 2023JB Aviat -- The State of Application Security00:44:59

What is the state of application security? JB Aviat answered that question, by creating the state of application security report based on data from Datadog customers using the application security and APM products. It provides insights into threat detection, vulnerability detection, prioritization, and general trends on where the most significant risks lie.

We discuss:

  • the prioritization of vulnerabilities;
  • the risks associated with non-production environments like staging or pre-production. They discuss how attackers often target these environments, potentially as practice grounds, before launching an attack on the production environment;
  • future trends of application security, particularly with the rise of low-code or no-code development tooling.

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15 Jun 2023Steve Wilson -- OWASP Top Ten for LLMs00:43:24

How do we do security in the world of AI and LLMs? A great place to start is with an OWASP project tasked with creating a standardized guideline for building secure AI applications with large language models such as ChatGPT. Enter OWASP Top Ten for LLMs, and Steve Wilson, the project leader.

You'll experience Large Language Models (LLMs) and their implications in AI. Steve explains how the introduction of ChatGPT marked a significant shift in the AI landscape. He elaborates on the concept of LLMs, their functioning, and the unique properties that emerge when used at a large scale.

Traditional OWASP Top Ten issues like SQL injection and broken authorization are still applicable when dealing with AI applications, and the  OWASP API Top Ten could be layered onto these considerations. Think about it -- AI applications have web frontends.

A new discipline of AI security engineering is on the horizon, focusing on the security of large language models and the applications that access them. A focus on both AI safety AND security must occur.

We look forward to the release of the 1.0 version of the OWASP Top Ten for LLMs. Join the discussion today on OWASP Slack, and help form the new list.

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22 Jun 2023François Proulx -- Actionable Software Supply Chain Security00:42:04

Software supply chain -- how deep does the problem go? François is here to help us realize how deep the rabbit hole of the supply chain is and enlighten us with strategies to get out of the hole.

François emphasizes the importance of branch protection in source code repositories as the cornerstone of any supply chain, highlighting the need for peer review and static code analysis before merging. He also discusses the concept of tag protection, which prevents anyone with rewrite access to the repository from modifying a tag. This is particularly important in the context of build systems, where an overwritten tag could compromise the entire system.

The conversation then shifts to a "Let's Encrypt" equivalent for package signing, which François believes is being addressed by the SIG store project. This project introduces the concept of keyless signatures, which eliminates the need to manage private keys, a process that can be risky and cumbersome.

François also discusses the importance of understanding your dependency tree and using package manager lock files to ensure that the version of a package you're downloading is the one you expect. He mentions the Terraform modules, where the lack of a lock file for modules can lead to security vulnerabilities.

Toward the end of the episode, François recommends listeners explore the OpenSSF (Open Source Security Foundation) and its various projects, such as the Scorecard project, which provides a security posture for your repo. He also mentions https://deps.dev, a free Google service that scans open-source repos and runs the Scorecard on those projects.

Look up towards the light if you find yourself at the bottom of the rabbit hole.

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29 Jun 2023Kim Wuyts -- The Future of Privacy Threat Modeling00:41:47

Kim Wuyts discusses her work in privacy threat modeling with LINDDUN, a framework inspired by Microsoft's STRIDE for security threat modeling. LINDDUN provides a structure to analyze privacy threats across multiple categories such as linking, detecting data disclosure, and unawareness. The framework has been updated over the years to incorporate new knowledge and developments in privacy, and it has become recognized as a go-to approach for privacy threat modeling.

Kim believes that privacy and security can be combined and highlights the importance of protecting individuals' rights and data while securing systems and assets.

Privacy by design, which focuses on reducing unnecessary data collection and considering individual needs, is discussed in relation to secure architecture and threat modeling. The Threat Modeling Manifesto is emphasized as a significant resource for promoting privacy threat modeling. 

Kim addresses emerging trends in privacy, including the concerns surrounding AI and responsible AI, and stresses the need for increased awareness among individuals and companies about privacy issues and the importance of privacy protection.

Listen in as Kim explains the importance of collaboration between security and privacy teams, integrating privacy into security practices, and recognizing the value of privacy for both privacy protection and overall security.


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09 Jul 2023Farshad Abasi -- Three Models for Deploying AppSec Resources00:09:18

Farshad Abasi shares three models for deploying resources within application security teams:

  1. The Dedicated AppSec Person Model involves assigning an AppSec person to work with each team. Farshad shares his experience of working with developers and the challenges faced in getting them to understand and implement threat modeling. He also discusses the transition from waterfall to Agile and how it affected threat modeling.
  2. The Federated Model: A security consultant attends weekly standups and sprint planning sessions in this model. They work with a checklist to quickly determine if any user stories could be security sensitive. This model reduces the allocation required to 10 to 20% of an AppSec consultant.
  3. The Champion or Deputy Model: The AppSec team deputizes developers to do the bulk of the application security work, and the AppSec team becomes a resource and escalation point for more complex problems. Each DevOps team appoints a security champion, and these champions form a working group supported by an AppSec person. The champions handle day-to-day issues and threat modeling, with the AppSec team providing mentorship and support.

Over several years, Farshad's journey progressed from the expert-led model to a fully-deputized, champion-driven approach to AppSec. 

After careful consideration, we conclude that the fully deputized model is the only path to scalability.

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14 Jul 2023Paul McCarty -- The Burrito Analogy of the Software Supply Chain00:33:46

"Visualizing the Software Supply Chain" is a project which aims to kick off a discussion about the scope and breadth of the software supply chain.

Paul McCarty emphasizes the importance of understanding what's in the software supply chain to secure it effectively. He uses the burrito analogy, stating that you can't decide if you want to eat it if you don't know what's in it. We discuss the nuances around the Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) and the importance of understanding the differences between various SBOMs, especially for companies that deploy frequently.

The conversation also covers third-party components, such as APIs, SaaS solutions, payment gateways, and identity providers, which are part of the software supply chain. Paul gives the example of Stripe, a payment platform that includes software components and SaaS.

Paul's project helps people understand the different threats associated with each category in the software supply chain. The episode concludes with a call to action for organizations to prioritize understanding their software supply chain and leveraging automation as much as possible.

Gain valuable insights into securing the software supply chain and consider guidance on actionable steps organizations can take to enhance their security.

Four key takeaways from the episode:

  1. Understanding the Software Supply Chain: Paul McCarty emphasizes the importance of understanding the scope and breadth of the software supply chain. He suggests you can't secure or have a valuable conversation about the software supply chain if you don't know what's in it.
  2. The Role of Third-Party Components:  Third-party components in the software supply chain are crucial. These can include APIs, SaaS solutions, payment gateways, and identity providers. Paul uses Stripe as an example to illustrate this point.
  3. The Nuances of the Software Bill of Materials (SBOM): SBOM has nuance. We highlight the importance of understanding the differences between various SBOMs, especially for companies that deploy frequently.
  4. Threat Thinking in the Software Supply Chain: We appreciate the depth of threat thinking in Paul's project. This approach helps people understand the different threats associated with each category in the software supply chain.

Links:

  • https://github.com/SecureStackCo/visualizing-software-supply-chain
  • https://github.com/6mile/DevSecOps-Playbook

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24 Jul 2023Steve Giguere -- Cloud AppSec00:37:23

Cloud security is on an evolutionary path,  with newer platforms embracing secure-by-default settings. This has led to a significant improvement in security but also adds complexity as developers need to understand these defaults when deploying to the cloud.

Steve Giguere defines cloud application security, describes cloud-first development and cloud complexity, security by default, and the need to broaden AppSec by creating new security personas and being secure from idea to destination. Steve provides many nuggets of insight from his travels, including pointing us to Wing, a programming language for the cloud that includes code and IaC together.

We discuss the consolidation of application security, particularly Static Application Security Testing (SAST) and Software Composition Analysis (SCA). These should not be separate products but must provide actionable insights and be tied together for practical reachability analysis.

We introduce a new segment of rapid-fire questions, asking about what Steve would put on a billboard at RSA or Blackhat and asking for book recommendations. Steve recommends "Hacking Kubernetes," praising its use-case focus and engaging narrative.

We plan to revisit this conversation in a few years to see if Steve's predictions about the security pipeline and other aspects of cloud application security have come to fruition.

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08 Aug 2023Tony Quadros -- The Life of an AppSec Vendor00:45:50

Tony Quadros, the AppSec Lumberjack, shares the unique career path that led him to find his passion in Application Security. The discussion delves into the work of an AppSec vendor, with Tony explaining his role and the responsibilities it entails. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the needs and environment of the customer, and whether the product he represents can fulfill their requirements. Tony also shares his philosophy of sales, centered around solving problems and providing business value.

Tony reveals the challenges salespeople face in the cybersecurity industry, particularly the pressure to meet quotas and the need for good company culture. Chris, Robert, and Tony highlight the importance of setting realistic expectations at the executive level to avoid putting undue pressure on customers and prospects.

In addition, the conversation touches on the importance of sales leadership in setting processes and creating a positive company culture. Sales leaders need to educate themselves about their products and market segment. Tony stresses they should provide value to customers through their conversations.

He also talks about becoming involved with OWASP Maine and encourages community involvement for all members of the AppSec community.

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15 Aug 2023Kevin Johnson -- Samurai Swords and Zap's Departure00:51:22

Kevin Johnson is the CEO of Secure Ideas. He began his career as a developer but turned toward security when he discovered that the interface for an intrusion detection system, Snort, was out of date. This led him to create BASE (Basic Analysis and Security Engine), a testament to Kevin's proactive approach.

Kevin has a deep-rooted passion for open-source projects. He highlights the challenges and joys of initiating and sustaining such ventures, emphasizing the pivotal role of community contributions. Kevin also details how to install and start with SamuraiWTF, a tool tailored for those keen on mastering application security. He outlines two paths for developers: one focused on learning application security intricacies and another on actively contributing to the project's growth.

Kevin also discusses the notable departure of ZAP from OWASP. Kevin expresses his concerns and reflects on the broader implications of this decision on the cybersecurity community. The episode wraps up with a touch of nostalgia, as Kevin and Chris reminisce about their early tech adventures, showcasing Kevin's unwavering commitment to knowledge-sharing and community collaboration.

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22 Aug 2023Dan Küykendall -- Why All Application Security Products Suck00:49:07

Dan Küykendall visits The Application Security Podcast to discuss his series "Why All AppSec Products Suck" and explain why software companies should understand the uses and limitations of any security tool. The series aims to highlight the limitations of each tool and to help users make informed decisions when selecting the right tools for their needs. In this field, there is no such thing as an expert; there is always something new to learn.

Dan, Chris, and Robert remember the late Kevin Mitnick, a well-known figure in the cybersecurity community. They share their personal experiences with Mitnick, highlighting his curiosity, humility, and the importance of remembering that everyone in the cybersecurity community is a regular person with feelings and concerns.

The hosts discuss the challenges of dealing with heavy client-side applications, such as those built with React, and the difficulties faced by Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) scanners in handling different data formats and client-side complexities. They share their experiences in redesigning DAST scanners to handle various data formats and the importance of separating data formats from attack payloads. Dan helps Chris see the usefulness of DAST in certain situations, such as a large enterprise, without hiding some of the limitations inherent in DAST.

The podcast also touches on the importance of training engineers in web security and the need for a collection of tools that address different security concerns. The hosts emphasize the value of designing security into applications from the beginning and the role of training in achieving this goal. Learning the basics, such as understanding TCP/IP, is still important for security and developers.

To gain more valuable insights and resources from Dan Kuykendall

The Dan On Dev website

 - https://danondev.com

Social Media

- https://twitter.com/dan_kuykendall

- https://twitter.com/Dan_On_Dev

- https://instagram.com/dan_on_dev

- https://facebook.com/danondev

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29 Aug 2023Maril Vernon -- You Get What You Inspect, Not What You Expect00:40:43

Maril Vernon is passionate about Purple teaming and joins Robert and Chris to discuss the intricacies of purple teaming in cybersecurity. She underscores the significance of fostering a collaborative environment between developers and the security team. Drawing from her experiences, Maril shares the challenge of development overlooking her remediation recommendations. She chose to engage directly with the developers, understanding their perspective and subsequently learning to frame her remediations in developer-centric language. This approach made her recommendations actionable and bridged the communication gap between the two teams.

Maril also looks into the future of purple teaming, envisioning a landscape dominated by automation and AI tools. While these tools will enhance the efficiency of certain tasks, she firmly believes that the human element, especially the creativity and intuition of red teamers, will remain irreplaceable. She envisions a future where dedicated purple teams might be replaced by a more holistic approach, or white teams, emphasizing collaboration across all departments.

Maril's powerful message on the essence of security: "You get what you inspect, not what you expect." She emphasizes the importance of proactive inspection and testing rather than relying on assumptions. And she re-states the centrality of cooperation between teams. Maril's insights serve as a reminder of the dynamic nature of cybersecurity and the need for continuous adaptation and collaboration.

Helpful Links:

  • Follow Maril: @shewhohacks
  • Purple Team Exercise Framework: https://github.com/scythe-io/purple-team-exercise-framework
  • Scythe: https://scythe.io/
  • MITRE ATT&CK Framework: https://attack.mitre.org/
  • MITRE ATT&CK Navigator: https://github.com/mitre-attack/attack-navigator
  • AttackIQ: https://www.attackiq.com/
  • SafeBreach: https://www.safebreach.com/ 
  • PlexTrac - https://plextrac.com/
  • Atomic Red Team: https://atomicredteam.io/

Book Recommendations: 

  • Security+ All-in-One Exam Prep: https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/comptia-security-all-one-exam-guide-sixth-edition-exam-sy0-601-conklin-white/9781260464009.html
  • The Pentester BluePrint - https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Pentester+BluePrint:+Starting+a+Career+as+an+Ethical+Hacker-p-9781119684305
  • The First 90 Days - https://hbr.org/books/watkins

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05 Sep 2023Mark Curphey and John Viega -- Chalk00:55:23

Mark Curphey and John Viega join Chris and Robert to explain the details of Chalk, Crash Override's new tool. Mark also talks about why ZAP departed from OWASP and joined the Software Security Project, highlighting some of the value and differences of both organizations. Open Source Software is important to the industry, but Mark calls on companies to contribute to the development and support of the projects they use.

The conversation explores the challenges faced by companies, especially large tech firms, in managing their software engineering processes. Many organizations grapple with identifying code ownership, determining code versions during incidents, and prioritizing alerts from static analysis tools. Chalk emerges as a solution to these challenges, providing clarity and reducing friction in the software development and maintenance process.

Toward the end, both speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the entire software engineering process to make informed decisions. They advocate for an "outside-in" perspective, urging listeners to step into the shoes of others and view challenges from a broader perspective. This holistic approach, they suggest, can lead to more effective decision-making in the realm of software development.

Listen until the end for book recommendations on cybersecurity, business, and personal growth.

Links:

  • Crash Override: https://crashoverride.com/about/
  • Chalk: https://crashoverride.com/docs/chalk/overview/
  • The Software Security Project: https://softwaresecurityproject.org/
  • The Open Worldwide Application Security Project (OWASP): https://owasp.org/

Books:

  • Cybersecurity Myths and Misconceptions... by Eugene H. Spafford, Leigh Metcalf, and Josiah Dykstra: https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/cybersecurity-myths-and-misconceptions-avoiding-the-hazards-and-pitfalls-that-derail/P200000007269/9780137929238
  • Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/crossing-the-chasm-3rd-edition-geoffrey-a-moore?variant=32130444066850
  • The Pragmatic Framework: https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/product/framework/
  • Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits
  • Start with Why by Simon Sinek: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/

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12 Sep 2023Jeff Williams -- The Tech of Runtime Security00:39:13

Jeff Willams of Contrast Security joins Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast to discuss runtime security, emphasizing the significance of Interactive Application Security Testing (IAST) in the modern DevOps landscape. After reflecting on the history of OWASP, the conversation turns to the challenges organizations face in managing their application security (AppSec) backlogs. Jeff highlights the alarming number of unresolved issues that often pile up, emphasizing the inefficiencies of traditional security tools.

Jeff champions IAST, and here are a few highlights that he shares. IAST is ideally suited for DevOps by seamlessly transforming regular test cases into security tests. IAST can provide instant feedback, leading to a Mean Time To Repair (MTTR) of just three days across numerous applications. Unlike Static Application Security Testing (SAST) or Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST), which can take hours or even days, IAST can complete security testing during the build, fitting within the tight SLAs of modern pipelines.

IAST offers developers comprehensive insights, which aids in a better understanding and quicker resolution of the identified issues. It is also adaptable, as IAST can detect vulnerabilities before they are exploited. Jeff argues that IAST's ability to work with existing test cases and provide rapid feedback makes it a perfect fit for the fast-paced DevOps environment.

Jeff emphasizes that while runtime security can be a game-changer, it doesn't replace other essential aspects of AppSec programs, such as training. In conclusion, Jeff Williams champions IAST as a revolutionary tool in the application security domain. Its adaptability, efficiency, and depth of insights make it a must-have in the toolkit of modern developers and security professionals.


Links:

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19 Sep 2023Harshil Parikh -- Deep Environmental and Organizational Context in Application Security00:38:07

Harshil Parikh is a seasoned security leader with experience building security and compliance functions from the ground up. He notably built the security and compliance team at Medallia from scratch and led it through several transitions. He is also a conference speaker, and, most recently, he co-founded Tromzo. Harshil shares insights about AppSec, running a startup, selling effectively, and provides justification for his mantra, "Context is king."

Harshil underscores the importance of understanding context in security, emphasizing that it's the bedrock for making informed decisions. He also brings to light the significance of data-driven metrics in application security.

Harshil champions the cause of enhancing the developer experience in application security. He posits that security professionals should be more than just watchdogs; they should be enablers, aiding developers in making the right security decisions. This involves equipping developers with the necessary tools and knowledge and providing them with the relevant context to understand the bigger picture. Harshil's insights into the trend of developer autonomy, especially in modern companies, are particularly enlightening. He discusses how developers today often take ownership beyond just coding, emphasizing the need for security guardrails to guide them.

Rounding off the episode, Harshil touches upon the challenges of scaling application security programs in organizations. His main message resonates powerfully: the role of security professionals extends beyond mere problem detection. It's about risk management, improving developer experiences, and navigating the complex labyrinths of organizational hierarchies. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone keen on understanding the nuances of application security in today's dynamic tech landscape.

Recommended Reading:
The Metrics Manifesto by Richard Seiersen. https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Metrics+Manifesto%3A+Confronting+Security+with+Data-p-9781119515418

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26 Sep 2023Itzik Alvas -- Secrets Security and Management00:37:05

Itzik Alvas, Co-founder and CEO of Entro, is an expert on secrets security.
Itzik joins Chris and Robert to discuss the significance of understanding and managing secrets, emphasizing the importance of knowing how many secrets an organization has, where they are located, and their potential impact. He elaborates on the three pillars of secrets management: listing and locating secrets, classifying and understanding their potential blast radius, and monitoring them for any abnormal behavior.

The conversation takes a turn towards the future of secrets management, where Itzik believes there's a need for a shift in mentality. He stresses the importance of education in this domain, urging listeners to seek knowledge, understand the potential risks, and start with actionable steps. Itzik's perspective on prioritizing risks, investing in processes, and the challenges of remediation offers a fresh take on application security.

As the episode wraps up, Itzik shares a key takeaway for the audience: the importance of getting educated about secrets, understanding their potential risks, and starting with quick, actionable steps. Chris Romeo, the host, and Itzik also touch upon their love for sci-fi, adding a personal touch to the conversation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone keen on enhancing their understanding of secrets security and management.


Helpful Links:
Entro -- https://entro.security/

Recommended Reading:
Foundation by Isaac Asimov -- https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-Isaac-Asimov/dp/0553293354
Ringworld by Larry Niven -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1911GL1
Seveneves by Neal Stephenson -- https://www.amazon.com/Seveneves-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0062334514

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03 Oct 2023OWASP Board of Directors Debate01:02:54

The Application Security Podcast presents the OWASP Board of Directors Debate for the 2023 elections. This is a unique and engaging discussion among six candidates vying for a position on the board. Throughout the debate, candidates address pressing questions about their priorities as potential board members, the future direction of OWASP, and strategies for community growth and vendor neutrality. Topics such as vendor agnosticism, the allocation of profits from global OWASP events, and the importance of community involvement are among the critical issues discussed.

The questions presented by Chris and Robert include:

  1. What experience do you have running an organization like OWASP? Have you been a C-level exec? Have you served on a Board of Directors? What hard decisions about the strategic direction of an organization have you personally made?
  2. What are your priorities as a board member, and what should not be on the board's agenda?
  3. How do you envision maintaining the legacy of OWASP's open-source projects in the future, especially compared to organizations like the Linux Foundation, which has successfully nurtured community engagement and secured funding for project sustainability?
  4. The individual paid memberships are in a steady decline year over year. What is your plan to increase the number of paid members of OWASP?
  5. How do you plan on remaining vendor agnostic and maintaining the open-source character of the org without becoming an incubator for companies?
  6. With the individual events happening around the globe under the OWASP brand, what should happen with the profit from those events? Should it become part of the Global OWASP bank account?


For those interested in the future of OWASP and the perspectives of its potential leaders, this debate offers valuable insights. We want to invite all application security professionals to tune in and listen to the complete discussion to gain a deeper understanding of the candidates' visions and strategies for the advancement of OWASP in the coming years.

Chris concludes with this message: 

"I can't stress enough the importance of your active participation in the upcoming board elections. These elections play a pivotal role, and you, as a valued member of the OWASP community, have the power to shape our organization's future. 

I want to remind you that there's a dedicated candidate page for each contender, complete with videos where they lay out their platforms and provide written answers to various questions. You must be informed. As an OWASP member, I urge you to exercise your right to vote. The voting period for the board of directors will open on October 15 and run until October 30. 

I genuinely believe that voting isn't just a right—it's a responsibility. Your vote will help determine the next generation of leaders who will steer OWASP in the coming years."

Links:

OWASP Global Board Candidates webpage:  https://owasp.org/www-board-candidates/


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10 Oct 2023Varun Badhwar -- The Developer Productivity Tax00:38:53

Varun Badhwar is a three-time founder, a luminary in the cyber security industry, and a clear communicator. He joins Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast to discuss scanning with context, SBOM plus VEX, and the developer productivity tax. The concept of a "Developer Productivity Tax" acknowledges the challenges developers face when bombarded with a plethora of vulnerabilities. This "tax" represents the drain on developers' time and resources as they navigate through a myriad of potential threats, many of which lack actionable context. The inefficiencies arising from this process can lead to significant delays in software development, emphasizing the need for more refined tools and techniques.

A key solution Varun offers is the integration of SBOM plus VEX (Software Bill of Materials with Vulnerability Exploitability eXchange). While SBOM offers transparency by detailing all software components and dependencies, it can be overwhelming due to the sheer volume of potential vulnerabilities it flags. VEX, designed as a companion to SBOM, provides the much-needed context, detailing the applicability, reachability, and availability of fixes for vulnerabilities. This combination aims to streamline the vulnerability management process, ensuring that only relevant and critical threats are addressed.

Lastly, the importance of "Scanning with Context" was emphasized. Traditional vulnerability scanning can often result in a multitude of false positives or irrelevant findings due to the lack of context. The podcast delved into the two primary approaches to contextual scanning: static analysis and runtime analysis. While both methods have their merits, the discussion leaned towards static analysis for its scalability and efficiency. The episode concluded by stressing the need for further research and development in vulnerability annotation to specific code functions, ensuring a more precise and actionable vulnerability management process.

Important Links:

Recommended books:


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16 Oct 2023Hasan Yasar -- Actionable SBOM via DevSecOps00:48:14

Hasan Yasar believes that everyone shares the responsibility of creating a secure environment, and this can only be achieved by working collaboratively. He underscores the idea that security is not an isolated endeavor but a collective effort, urging everyone to come together and build a world where safety and security are paramount.

Yasar also shares his thoughts about education and security. He highlights the need for integrating security concepts right from the foundational levels of teaching programming languages. By introducing concepts like input validation and sanitization early on, students can be better equipped to handle security challenges in their professional lives. Yasar also mentions the importance of bridging the gap between real-world problems and academic research. By organizing workshops and connecting researchers with real-world challenges, there's an opportunity to create more awareness and solutions that are grounded in practicality.

He contrasts the challenges faced in developing complex systems like simulators with those of web applications. In the context of simulators, every aspect, from memory management to user interface, needs to be meticulously crafted, keeping both safety and security in mind. This holistic approach ensures that safety and security are intertwined, ensuring a robust system. On the other hand, with web applications, developers often only see the tip of the iceberg, unaware of the underlying dependencies, making security a more challenging endeavor.

Hasan Yasar introduces Chris and Robert to the concept of "actionable SBOM" (Software Bill of Materials). He passionately argues against viewing the SBOM as just a static file tucked away in repositories. Instead, Yasar champions the idea that it should be actively integrated into the infrastructure as code. This ensures that when deploying tools like Docker containers, there's a consistent alignment between the software components and their documented versions in the SBOM.

Yasar further underscores the importance of real-time monitoring of the SBOM, especially in a production environment. This proactive approach not only keeps track of the software components but also alerts organizations to new vulnerabilities as they arise. By integrating the SBOM with vulnerability management tools, organizations can maintain a secure environment, ensuring timely updates and patches when potential threats are detected.

The podcast also touches upon the challenges of maintaining an actionable SBOM in fast-paced development environments, where software updates can occur multiple times a day. However, Yasar remains optimistic. He believes that with the right mindset and tools, it's entirely possible to keep the SBOM updated and relevant, making it an invaluable asset in the ever-evolving world of software development and security.

Links:

Software Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society
by Chris Hughes, Tony Turner
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1394158483?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_PHSFCKCRM7Q8KZ41RDXT

Cybersecurity First Principles: A Reboot of Strategy and Tactics  by Rick Howard
https://www.amazon.com/Cybersecurity-First-Principles-Strategy-Tactics/dp/1394173083

Carnegie Mellon Universi

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24 Oct 2023Tanya Janca -- What Secure Coding Really Means00:48:23

Tanya Janca, also known as SheHacksPurple, joins the Application Security Podcast again to discuss secure coding, threat modeling, education, and other topics in the AppSec world. With a rich background spanning over 25 years in IT, coding, and championing cybersecurity, Tanya delves into the essence of secure coding.

Tanya highlights the difference between teaching developers about vulnerabilities and teaching them the practices to avoid these vulnerabilities in the first place. Instead of focusing on issues like SQL injection, she emphasizes the importance of proactive measures like input validation and always using parameterized queries. She believes teaching developers how to build secure applications is more effective than merely pointing out vulnerabilities.

She also explains the importance of a secure system development life cycle (SDLC). Software companies often state "We take your security seriously." Tanya believes the phrase should only be used by companies that have a secure SDLC in place. Without it, the phrase is rendered meaningless.

Discussing the intersection of coding and threat modeling, Tanya shares personal anecdotes that underscore the need to view systems with a critical eye, always anticipating potential vulnerabilities and threats. She recounts her initial reactions during threat modeling sessions, where she is surprised by the myriad ways applications can be exploited.

One of her most crucial takeaways for developers is the principle of distrust and verification. Tanya stresses that when writing code, developers should not trust any input or connection blindly. Everything received should be validated to ensure its integrity and safety. This practice, she believes, not only ensures the security of applications but also makes the lives of incident responders easier.

Toward the end of the podcast, Tanya recommends This is How They Tell Me the World Ends," which offers a deep dive into the zero-day industry. She lauds the book for its meticulous research and compelling narrative. The episode wraps up with Tanya encouraging listeners to stay connected with her work and to anticipate her upcoming book.


Links:

Alice and Bob Learn Application Security by Tanya Janca
     https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Alice+and+Bob+Learn+Application+Security-p-9781119687405

This is How They Tell Me the World Ends by Nicole Perlroth
     https://thisishowtheytellmetheworldends.com/

WeHackPurple
     https://wehackpurple.com/

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31 Oct 2023Steve Wilson and Gavin Klondike -- OWASP Top Ten for LLM Release00:51:43

Steve Wilson and Gavin Klondike are part of the core team for the OWASP Top 10 for Large Language Model Applications project. They join Robert and Chris to discuss the implementation and potential challenges of AI, and present the OWASP Top Ten for LLM version 1.0. Steve and Gavin provide insights into the issues of prompt injection, insecure output handling, training data poisoning, and others. Specifically, they emphasize the significance of understanding the risk of allowing excessive agency to LLMs and the role of secure plugin designs in mitigating vulnerabilities.

The conversation dives deep into the importance of secure supply chains in AI development, looking at the potential risks associated with downloading anonymous models from community-sharing platforms like Huggingface. The discussion also highlights the potential threat implications of hallucinations, where AI produces results based on what it thinks it's expected to produce and tends to please people, rather than generating factually accurate results.

Wilson and Klondike also discuss how certain standard programming principles, such as 'least privilege', can be applied to AI development. They encourage developers to conscientiously manage the extent of privileges they give to their models to avert discrepancies and miscommunications from excessive agency. They conclude the discussion with a forward-looking perspective on how the OWASP Top Ten for LLM Applications will develop in the future.

Links:

OWASP Top Ten for LLM Applications project homepage:
https://owasp.org/www-project-top-10-for-large-language-model-applications/

OWASP Top Ten for LLM Applications summary PDF: 
https://owasp.org/www-project-top-10-for-large-language-model-applications/assets/PDF/OWASP-Top-10-for-LLMs-2023-slides-v1_1.pdf

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07 Nov 2023Chris John Riley -- MVSP: Minimum Viable Secure Product00:50:13

Chris John Riley joins Chris and Robert to discuss the Minimum Viable Secure Product. MVSP is a minimalistic security checklist for B2B software and business process outsourcing suppliers. It was designed by a team that included experts from Google, Salesforce, Okta, and Slack. The MVSP objectives are targeted at startups and other companies creating new applications, helping such organizations meet security standards expected by larger enterprises like Google. The MVSP is designed to be accessible for users, as a way to streamline the process of vendor assessment and procurement from the start to the contractual control stages.

Using MVSP, developers and application security enthusiasts can establish a baseline for building secure applications. MVSP includes controls about business operations, application design, implementation, and operational controls. For instance, it encourages third-party penetration testing on applications, as it believes that every product has an issue somewhere and needs regular testing to maintain a good security posture. The controls are designed to be reasonable and achievable, but also evolutionary to keep up with changes in the cybersecurity landscape.

Moving forward, MVSP intends to continue updating its guidelines to reflect the realities of the software development landscape but to keep the number of controls manageable to maintain wide acceptance. Chris encourages firms to consider MVSP as a baseline during the Request for Proposal (RFP) process to ensure prospective vendors meet the required security guidelines.

Links:

Recommended Books:


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15 Nov 2023Ray Espinoza -- The AppSec CISO, Vendor Relationships, and Mentoring00:50:37

For Security Pros & Business Leaders | Strategic Insights & Leadership Lessons

🔒🌟 When Ray Espinoza joined Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast, he gave a treasure trove of insights for both security professionals and business leaders alike! Whether you're deep in the trenches of information security or steering the ship in business leadership, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways. Dive in to discover why this is a must-listen for professionals across the spectrum. 🌟🔒

For Security Professionals:
1. CISO Insights: Gain a glimpse into the strategic mind of a Chief Information Security Officer. Learn from their real-world experiences and challenges in aligning security with business goals.
2. Career Development: Get inspired by the speaker's career journey and learn the importance of mentorship in your professional growth.
3. Data-Driven Security: Embrace a data-driven approach to security solutions, focusing on tangible results and measurable outcomes.

For Business Leaders:
1. Strategic Security Understanding: Learn how information security is integral to overall business strategy and decision-making.
2. Universal Risk Management: Gain insights into risk management strategies applicable across various business aspects.
3. Communication & Relationship Building: Enhance your skills in effective communication and professional relationship building.
4. Leadership & Mentorship: Absorb valuable lessons in guiding and inspiring your team, crucial for effective leadership.
5. Adaptability in Leadership: Understand the importance of flexibility and adaptability in today's rapidly evolving business landscape.
6. Data-Driven Decisions: Embrace the power of data in driving efficient and accountable business processes.

Why Listen?
👉 For security pros, this is your chance to deepen your understanding of strategic security management and enhance your interpersonal skills.
👉 For business leaders, this episode offers a unique perspective on how security strategies impact broader business objectives and leadership practices.

Don't Miss Out!
🎧 Tune in now for an enlightening discussion filled with actionable insights. Whether you're an aspiring CISO, a seasoned security professional, or a business leader looking to broaden your horizons, this podcast has something for everyone.

👍 Like, Share, and Subscribe for more insightful content!
💬 Drop your thoughts and takeaways in the comments below!

#SecurityLeadership #BusinessStrategy #RiskManagement #CareerGrowth #DataDrivenDecisions #LeadershipSkills

---

Remember, your engagement helps us bring more such content. So, hit that like button, share with your network, and subscribe for more insightful episodes! 🌟🔊📈

Ray's Book Recommendation:
Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin
https://echelonfront.com/books/extreme-ownership/


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21 Nov 2023Katharina Koerner -- Security as Responsible AI00:50:40

Dr. Katharina Koerner, a renowned advisor and community builder with expertise in privacy by design and responsible AI, joins Chris and Robert to delve into the intricacies of responsible AI in this episode of the Application Security Podcast. She explores how security intersects with AI, discusses the ethical implications of AI's integration into daily life, and emphasizes the importance of educating ourselves about AI risk management frameworks. She also highlights the crucial role of AI security engineers, the ethical debates around using AI in education, and the significance of international AI governance. This discussion is a deep dive into AI, privacy, security, and ethics, offering valuable insights for tech professionals, policymakers, and individuals.

Links:

Recommended Book:

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28 Nov 2023Dr. Jared Demott -- Cloud Security & Bug Bounty00:44:29

Chris and Robert are thrilled to have an insightful conversation with Dr. Jared Demott, a seasoned expert in the field of cybersecurity. The discussion traverses a range of topics, from controversial opinions on application security to the practical aspects of managing bug bounty programs in large corporations like Microsoft.

We dive into the technicalities of bug bounty programs, exploring how companies like Microsoft handle the influx of reports and the importance of such programs in a comprehensive security strategy. Dr. Demott provides valuable insights into the evolution of bug classes and the never-ending challenge of addressing significant bug types, emphasizing that no bug class can ever be fully eradicated.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the nuances of software security, the realities of cybersecurity employment, and the ongoing challenges in bug mitigation. Join us for an enlightening journey into the heart of application security with Dr. Jared Demott.

Links:

Microsoft Security Response Center MSRC: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/msrc

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05 Dec 2023Arshan Dabirsiaghi -- Security Startups, AI Influencing AppSec, and Pixee/Codemodder.io00:57:36

Arshan Dabirsiaghi of Pixee joins Robert and Chris to discuss startups, AI in appsec, and Pixee's Codemodder.io. The conversation begins with a focus on the unrealistic expectations placed on developers regarding security. Arshan points out that even with training, developers may not remember or apply security measures effectively, especially in complex areas like deserialization. This leads to a lengthy and convoluted process for fixing security issues, a problem that Arshan and his team have been working to address through their open-source tool, Codemodder.io.

Chris and Arshan discuss the dynamic nature of the startup world. Chris reflects on the highs and lows experienced in a single day, emphasizing the importance of having a resilient team that can handle these fluctuations. They touch upon the role of negativity in an organization and its potential to hinder progress. Arshan then delves into the history of Contrast Security and its pioneering work in defining RASP (Runtime Application Self-Protection) and IAST (Interactive Application Security Testing) as key concepts in appsec.

The group also explores the future of AI in application security. Arshan expresses his view that AI will serve more as a helper than a replacement in the short term. He believes that those who leverage AI will outperform those who don't. The conversation also covers the potential risks of relying too heavily on AI, such as the introduction of vulnerabilities and the loss of understanding in code development. Arshan emphasizes the importance of a feedback loop in the development process, where each change is communicated to the developer, fostering a learning environment. This approach aims to improve developers' understanding of security issues and promote better coding practices.

Links:
Pixee https://www.pixee.ai/
Pixee's Codemodder.io: https://codemodder.io/

Book Recommendation:
Hacking: The Art of Exploitation, Vol. 2  by John Erickson: https://nostarch.com/hacking2.htm

Aleph One's "Smashing The Stack for Fun and Profit":
http://phrack.org/issues/49/14.html

Tim Newsham's "Format String Attacks": 
https://seclists.org/bugtraq/2000/Sep/214

Matt Conover's "w00w00 on Heap Overflows" (reposted):
https://www.cgsecurity.org/exploit/heaptut.txt

Jeremiah Grossman, aka rain forest puppy (rfp):
https://www.jeremiahgrossman.com/#writing

Justin Rosenstein's original codemod on GitHub:
https://github.com/facebookarchive/codemod

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12 Dec 2023Björn Kimminich -- OWASP Juice Shop00:39:17

Bjorn Kimminich, the driving force behind the OWASP Juice Shop project, joins Chris and Robert to discuss all things Juice Shop. The OWASP Juice Shop is a deliberately vulnerable web application that serves as an invaluable training tool for security professionals and enthusiasts. Bjorn provides a comprehensive overview of the latest features and challenges introduced in the Juice Shop, underscoring the project's commitment to simulating real-world security scenarios.

Key highlights include the introduction of coding challenges, where users must identify and fix code vulnerabilities. This interactive approach enhances the learning experience and bridges the gap between theoretical knowledge and practical application. Additionally, Bjorn delves into the integration of Web3 and smart contracts within the Juice Shop, reflecting the project's adaptation to emerging technologies in the blockchain domain. This integration poses new challenges and learning opportunities, making the Juice Shop a continually relevant and evolving platform for cybersecurity training.

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the project's maintenance efforts and the introduction of a novel cheating detection mechanism. This system assesses the patterns and speed of challenge completions, ensuring the integrity of the learning process. Bjorn's discussion also highlights the inclusion of 'shenanigan' challenges, adding a layer of fun and creativity to the application. The significant impact of the Juice Shop on the cybersecurity community, as a tool for honing skills and understanding complex security vulnerabilities, is evident throughout the discussion, marking this episode as an essential watch for those in the field.

Links:
OWASP Juice Shop - https://owasp.org/www-project-juice-shop/

Pwning OWASP Juice Shop by Björn Kimminich. The official companion guide to the OWASP Juice Shop - https://leanpub.com/juice-shop

"OWASP Juice Shop Jingle" by Brian Johnson of 7 Minute Security - https://soundcloud.com/braimee/owasp-juice-shop-jingle

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19 Dec 2023Eitan Worcel -- Is AI a Security Champion?00:48:41

Eitan Worcel joins the Application Security Podcast, to talk automated code fixes and the role of artificial intelligence in application security. We start with a thought-provoking discussion about the consistency and reliability of AI-generated responses in fixing vulnerabilities like Cross-Site Scripting (XSS). The conversation highlights a future where AI on one side writes code while AI on the other side fixes it, raising questions about the outcomes of such a scenario.

The discussion shifts to the human role in using AI for automated code fixes. Human oversight is important in setting policies or rules to guide AI, as opposed to letting it run wild on the entire code base. This controlled approach, akin to a 'controlled burn,' aims at deploying AI in a way that's beneficial and manageable, without overwhelming developers with excessive changes or suggestions.

We also explore the efficiency gains expected from AI in automating tedious tasks like fixing code vulnerabilities. We compare this to the convenience of household robots like Roomba, imagining a future where AI takes care of repetitive tasks, enhancing developer productivity. However, we also address potential pitfalls, such as AI's tendency to 'hallucinate' or generate inaccurate solutions, underscoring the need for caution and proper validation of AI-generated fixes.

This episode offers a balanced perspective on the integration of AI in application security, highlighting both its promising potential and the challenges that need to be addressed. Join us as we unravel the complexities and future of AI in AppSec, understanding how it can revolutionize the field while remaining vigilant about its limitations.

Recommended Reading from Eitan:
The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-hard-thing-about-hard-things-ben-horowitz?variant=32122118471714

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09 Jan 2024Jay Bobo & Darylynn Ross -- App Sec Is Dead. Product Security Is the Future.00:52:25

Jay Bobo and Darylynn Ross from CoverMyMeds join Chris to explain their assertion that 'AppSec is Dead.' They discuss the differences between product and application security, emphasizing the importance of proper security practices and effective communication with senior leaders, engineers, and other stakeholders. Jay proposes that product security requires a holistic approach and cautions against the current state of penetration testing in web applications. Darylynn encourages AppSec engineers to broaden their scope beyond individual applications to product security. With enlightening insights and practical advice, this episode thoughtfully challenges AppSec professionals with new ideas about application and product security.

Links:
Jay recommends:
How to Measure Anything in Cybersecurity Risk, 2nd Edition
by Douglas W. Hubbard, Richard Seiersen
https://www.wiley.com/en-us/How+to+Measure+Anything+in+Cybersecurity+Risk%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119892311

Darylynn recommends:
Kristin Hannah: https://kristinhannah.com/

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20 Jan 2024Chris Hughes -- Software Transparency00:39:10

Chris Hughes, co-founder of Aquia, joins Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast to discuss points from his recent book Software Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society, co-authored with Tony Turner. The conversation touches on the U.S. government in the software supply chain, the definition and benefits of software transparency, the concept of a software bill of materials (SBOM), and the growth of open-source software.

The episode also covers crucial topics like compliance versus real security in software startups, the role of SOC 2 in setting security baselines, and the importance of threat modeling in understanding software supply chain risks. They also talk about the imbalance between software suppliers and consumers in terms of information transparency and the burden on developers and engineers to handle vulnerability lists with little context.

As an expert in the field, Chris touches on the broader challenges facing the cybersecurity community, including the pitfalls of overemphasizing technology at the expense of building strong relationships and trust. He advocates for a more holistic approach to security, one that prioritizes people over technology.

Links

Software Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society by Chris Hughes and Tony Turner
https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Software+Transparency%3A+Supply+Chain+Security+in+an+Era+of+a+Software+Driven+Society-p-9781394158492

Application Security Program Handbook by Derek Fisher https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Application-Security-Program-Handbook/Derek-Fisher/9781633439818

Agile Application Security by Laura Bell, Michael Brunton-Spall, Rich Smith, Jim Bird
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/agile-application-security/9781491938836/

CNCF Catalog of Supply Chain Compromises
https://github.com/cncf/tag-security/blob/main/supply-chain-security/compromises/README.md

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30 Jan 2024Kyle Kelly -- The Dumpster Fire of Software Supply Chain Security00:41:17

Kyle Kelly joins Chris to explore the wild west of software supply chain security. Kyle, author of the CramHacks newsletter, sheds light on the complicated and often misunderstood world of software supply chain security. He brings unique insights into the challenges, issues, and potential solutions in this constantly growing field. From his experiences in sectors like cybersecurity and security research, he adapts a critical perspective on the state of the software supply chain, suggesting it is in a 'dumpster fire' state. We'll dissect that incendiary claim and discuss the influence of open-source policies, the role of GRC, and the importance of build reproducibility. From starters to experts, anyone with even a mild interest in software security and its future will find this conversation enlightening.

Links:
CramHacks - https://www.cramhacks.com/

Solve for Happy by Mo Gawdat - https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/mo-gawdat/solve-for-happy/9781509809950

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06 Feb 2024Justin Collins -- Enabling the Business to Move Faster, Securely00:47:19

Justin Collins of Gusto joins Robert and Chris for a practical conversation about running security teams in an engineering-minded organization. Justin shares his experience leading product security teams, the importance of aligning security with business goals, and the challenges arising from the intersection of product security and emerging technologies like GenAI.

They also discuss the concept of security partners and the future of AI applications in the field of cybersecurity. And he doesn’t finish before sharing insights into the role of GRC and privacy in the current security landscape. Find out why Justin believes that above all, security should align with the goals of a business, tailored to the business itself, its situation, and its resources.

Book Recommendation:
The DevOps Handbook by Gene Kim et al.
https://itrevolution.com/product/the-devops-handbook-second-edition/

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17 Feb 2024Erik Cabetas -- Cracking Codes on Screen and in Contests: An Expert's View on Hacking, Vulnerabilities, and the Evolution of Cybersecurity Language00:51:12

Erik Cabetas joins Robert and Chris for a thought-provoking discussion about modern software security. They talk about the current state of vulnerabilities, the role of memory-safe languages in AppSec, and why IncludeSec takes a highly systematic approach to security assessments and bans OWASP language. Along the way, Erik shares his entry into cybersecurity and his experience consulting about hacking for TV shows and movies. The conversation doesn't end before they peek into threat modeling, software engineering architecture, and the nuances of running security programs.

Helpful Links:
Security Engineering by Ross Anderson - https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Security+Engineering%3A+A+Guide+to+Building+Dependable+Distributed+Systems%2C+3rd+Edition-p-9781119642817

New School of Information Security by Adam Shostack and Andrew Stewart - https://www.informit.com/store/new-school-of-information-security-9780132800280

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27 Feb 2024Jason Nelson -- Three Pillars of Threat Modeling Success: Consistency, Repeatability, and Efficacy00:53:52

Jason Nelson, an accomplished expert in information security management, joins Chris to share insights on establishing successful threat modeling programs in data-intensive industries like finance and healthcare. Jason presents his three main pillars to consider when establishing a threat modeling program: consistency, repeatability, and efficacy. The discussion also provides a series of fascinating insights into security practices, regulatory environments, and the value of a threat modeling champion. As a threat modeling practitioner, Jason provides an essential perspective to anyone serious about application security.

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05 Mar 2024Hendrik Ewerlin -- Threat Modeling of Threat Modeling00:33:50

Robert and Chris talk with Hendrik Ewerlin, a threat modeling advocate and trainer. Hendrik believes you can threat model anything, and he recently applied threat modeling to the process of threat modeling itself. His conclusions are published in the document Threat Modeling of Threat Modeling, where he aims to help practitioners, in his own words, "tame the threats to the threat modeling process."

They explore the role of threat modeling in software development, emphasizing the dire consequences of overlooking this crucial process.
They discuss why threat modeling serves as a cornerstone for security, and why Hendrik stresses the importance of adopting a process that is effective, efficient, and satisfying. If you care about secure software, you will want to listen in as Hendrik emphasizes why the approach to threat modeling, as well as the process itself, is so critical to success in security.

Links:
=> Hendrik Ewerlin: https://hendrik.ewerlin.com/security/
=> Threat Modeling of Threat Modeling: https://threat-modeling.net/threat-modeling-of-threat-modeling/

Recommended Reading:

=> Steal Like An Artist and other books by Austin Kleon https://austinkleon.com/books/

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12 Mar 2024Bill Sempf -- Development, Security, and Teaching the Next Generation00:39:44

Robert is joined by Bill Sempf, an application security architect with over 20 years of experience in software development and security. Bill shares his security origins as a curious child immersed in technology, leading to his lifelong dedication to application security. They discuss CodeMash, a developer conference in Ohio, and recount Bill's presentation on the Veilid application framework, designed for privacy-driven mobile applications. Bill also explores his efforts in educating children about technology and programming, drawing on his experiences with Kidsmash and other initiatives. Additionally, they delve into the challenges of application security, particularly modern software development practices and the utility of languages like Rust for creating secure applications. Bill concludes with intriguing thoughts on application security trends and the importance of a diverse skill set for both developers and security professionals.

Helpful Links:

Bill's homepage - https://www.sempf.net/
CodeMash conference - https://codemash.org
Veilid Application Framework - https://veilid.com/

Math Without Numbers - https://www.amazon.com/Math-Without-Numbers-Milo-Beckman/dp/1524745545

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20 Mar 2024Meghan Jacquot -- Assumed Breach Red Team Engagements for AppSec00:40:55

AppSec specialist Megan Jacquot joins Chris and Robert for a compelling conversation about community, career paths, and productive red team exercises. Megan shares her unique cybersecurity origin story, tracing her interest in the field from childhood influences through her tenure as an educator and her formal return to academia to pivot into a tech-focused career. She delves into her roles in threat intelligence and application security, emphasizing her passion for technical work, penetration testing, and bug bounty programs. Additionally, Megan highlights the importance of mentorship, her involvement with the Women in Cybersecurity (WeCyS) community, and her dedication to fostering the next generation of cybersecurity professionals.

The discussion covers assumed breach and red team engagements in cybersecurity, the significance of empathy in bug bounty interactions, tips for Call for Papers (CFP) submissions, and the value of community engagement within organizations like OWASP and DEF CON. Megan concludes with insights on the importance of difficult conversations and giving back to the cybersecurity community.

Links

Difficult Conversations (How to Discuss What Matters Most) by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen -- https://www.stoneandheen.com/difficult-conversations

Being Henry: The Fonz...and Beyond by Henry Winkler -- https://celadonbooks.com/book/being-henry-fonz-and-beyond-henry-winkler/

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02 Apr 2024Mukund Sarma -- Developer Tools that Solve Security Problems00:46:32

Mukund Sarma, the Senior Director for Product Security at Chime, talks with Chris about his career path from being a software engineer to becoming a leader in application security. He explains how he focuses on building security tools that are easy for developers to use and stresses the importance of looking at application security as a part of the broader category of product security. Mukund highlights the role of collaboration over security mandates and the introduction of security scorecards for proactive risk management. He and Chris also discuss the strategic implementation of embedded security functions within development teams. Discover the potential of treating security as an enabling function for developers, fostering a culture of shared responsibility, and the innovative approaches Chime employs to secure its services with minimal friction for developers.

Links
Chime's Monocle
-- https://medium.com/life-at-chime/monocle-how-chime-creates-a-proactive-security-engineering-culture-part-1-dedd3846127f
-- https://medium.com/life-at-chime/mitigating-risky-pull-requests-with-monocle-risk-advisor-part-2-7013e1485bf2

Introduction to Overwatch
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtZKBtw8VO4

Recommended Reading
Building Secure and Reliable Systems by Adkins, Beyer, Blankinship, Lewandowski, Oprea, Stubblefield -- https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/building-secure-and/9781492083115/
Drive by Daniel Pink -- https://www.danpink.com/books/drive/

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09 Apr 2024Francesco Cipollone -- Application Security Posture Management and the Power of Working with the Business00:38:11

Francesco Cipollone, CEO of Phoenix Security, joins Chris and Robert to discuss security and explain Application Security Posture Management (ASPM). Francesco shares his journey from developer to cybersecurity leader, revealing the origins and importance of ASPM. The discussion covers the distinction between application security and product security, the evolution of ASPM from SIEM solutions, and ASPM's role in managing asset vulnerabilities and software security holistically. Francesco emphasizes the necessity of involving the business side in security decisions and explains how ASPM enables actionable, risk-based decision-making. The episode also touches on the impact of AI on ASPM. It concludes with Francesco advocating for a stronger integration between security, development, and business teams to effectively manage software security risks.

Recommended Reading:
Cyber for Builders: The Essential Guide to Building a Cybersecurity Startup by Ross Haleliuk — https://ventureinsecurity.net/p/cyber-for-builders

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16 Apr 2024Dustin Lehr -- Culture Change through Champions and Gamification00:45:10

Dustin Lehr, Senior Director of Platform Security/Deputy CISO at Fivetran and Chief Solutions Officer at Katilyst Security, joins Robert and Chris to discuss security champions. Dustin explains the concept of security champions within the developer community, exploring the unique qualities and motivations behind developers becoming security advocates. He emphasizes the importance of fostering a security culture and leveraging gamification to engage developers effectively. They also cover the challenges of implementing security practices within the development process and how to justify the need for a champion program to engineering leadership. Dustin shares insights from his career transition from a developer to a cybersecurity professional, and he provides practical advice for organizations looking to enhance their security posture through community and culture-focused approaches.

Links:
"Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule" article by Paul Graham — https://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss & Tahl Raz —
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/never-split-the-difference-chris-vosstahl-raz?variant=32117745385506

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14 May 2024Devin Rudnicki -- Expanding AppSec00:35:57

Devon Rudnicki, the Chief Information Security Officer at Fitch Group, shares her journey of developing an application security program from scratch and advancing to the CISO role. She emphasizes the importance of collaboration, understanding the organization's business, and using metrics to drive positive change in the security program.

Elon Musk - Walter Isaacson
Steve Jobs - Walter Isaacson
The Code Breaker: Jennifer Doudna, Gene Editing, and the Future of the Human Race - Walter Isaacson
https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Walter-Isaacson/697650

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21 May 2024Mark Curphey and Simon Bennetts -- Riding the Coat Tails of ZAP, without Open Source Funding00:42:32

Mark Curphey and Simon Bennetts, join Chris on the podcast to discuss the challenges of funding and sustaining major open source security projects like ZAP. 

Curphey shares about going fully independent and building a non-profit sustainable model for ZAP. The key is getting companies in the industry, especially companies commercializing ZAP, to properly fund its ongoing development and maintenance.

Bennetts, who has led ZAP for over 15 years, shares the harsh reality that while ZAP is likely the world's most popular web scanner with millions of active users per month, very few companies contribute back financially despite making millions by building products and services on top of ZAP. 

Curphey and Bennetts are asking those in the industry to step up and properly fund open source projects like ZAP that are critical infrastructure, rather than freeloading off the hard work of a few individuals. Curphey's company is investing substantial funds in a "responsible marketing" model to sustain ZAP as a non-profit, with hopes others will follow this ethical example to prevent open source security going down a dangerous path.

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31 May 2024James Berthoty -- Is DAST Dead? And the future of API security00:44:56

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, host Chris Romeo welcomes James Berthoty, a cloud security engineer with a diverse IT background, to discuss his journey into application and product security. 

The conversation spans James's career trajectory from IT operations to cloud security, his experiences with security tools like Snyk and StackHawk, and the evolving landscape of Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) and API security. They delve into the practical challenges of CVEs, reachability analysis, and the complexities of patching in mid-sized companies. James shares his views on the often misunderstood role of WAF and the importance of fixing issues over merely identifying them. 

The discussion concludes with insights into James's initiative, Latio Tech, which aims to help security professionals evaluate and understand application security products better. 

James Berthoty’s LinkedIn post: AppSec Kool-Aid Statements I Disagree With
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/james-berthoty_appsec-kool-aid-statements-i-disagree-with-activity-7166084208686256128-tb1U?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

What is Art by Leo Tolstoy
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/64908/64908-h/64908-h.htm

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11 Jun 2024Matt Rose -- Software Supply Chain Security Means Many Different Things to Different People00:46:14

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut welcome Matt Rose, an experienced technical AppSec testing leader. Matt discusses his career journey and significant contributions in AppSec. The conversation delves into the nuances of software supply chain security, exploring how different perceptions affect its understanding. Matt provides insights into the XZ compromise, critiques the buzzword 'shift left,' and discusses the role of digital twins and AI in enhancing the supply chain security. He emphasizes the need for a comprehensive approach beyond SCA, the relevance of threat modeling, and the potential risks and benefits of AI in security. The discussion also touches on industry trends, the importance of understanding marketing terms, and the future directions of AppSec.

Mentioned in the episode:

The Application Security Program Handbook by Derek Fisher
https://www.manning.com/books/application-security-program-handbook

Podcast Episode: Derek Fisher – The Application Security Program Handbook
https://youtu.be/DgmlHgNT-UM

Authors mentioned:
Steven E. Ambrose  https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Stephen-E-Ambrose/1063454
Mark Frost  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Frost

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18 Jun 2024David Quisenberry -- Building Security, People, and Programs00:56:54

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut engage in a deep discussion with guest David Quisenberry about various aspects of application security. They cover David's journey into the security world, insights on building AppSec programs in small to mid-sized companies, and the importance of data-driven decision-making. 

The conversation also delves into the value of mentoring, the vital role of trust with engineering teams, and the significance of mental health and community in the industry. Additionally, Chris, David and Robert share personal stories that emphasize the importance of relationships and balance in life. 

Books Shared in the Episode:

SRE Engineering by Betsy Beyer, Chris Jones, Jennifer Petoff and Niall Richard Murphy  

The Phoenix Project by Gene Kim, Kevin Behr and George Spafford 

Security Chaos Engineering by Aaron Rinehart and Kelly Shortridge 

CISO Desk Reference Guide by Bill Bonney, Gary Hayslip, Matt Stamper 

Wiring the Winning Organization by Gene Kim and Dr. Steven J. Spear 

The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, M.D. 

Intelligence Driven Incident Response by Rebekah Brown and Scott J. Roberts 

Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi  

Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman 

Do Hard Things by Steve Magness 

How Leaders Create and Use Networks, Whitepaper by Herminia Ibarra and Mark Lee Hunter



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02 Jul 2024Jahanzeb Farooq -- Launching and executing an AppSec program00:49:44

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut are joined by Jahanzeb Farooq to discuss his journey in cybersecurity and the challenges of building AppSec programs from scratch. Jahanzeb shares his experience working in various industries, including Siemens, Novo Nordisk, and Danske Bank, highlighting the importance of understanding developer needs and implementing the right tools. 

The conversation covers the complexities of cybersecurity in the pharmaceutical and financial sectors, shedding light on regulatory requirements and the role of software in critical industries. Learn about prioritizing security education, threat modeling, and navigating digital transformation.


Mentioned in this Episode:

The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg



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09 Jul 2024Tanya Janca -- Secure Guardrails01:04:50

Join us for a conversation with Tanya Janka, also known as SheHacksPurple, as she discusses secure guardrails, the difference between guardrails and paved roads, and how to implement both in application security.  

Tanya, an award-winning public speaker and head of education at SEMGREP, shares her insights on creating secure software and teaching developers. Tanya also shares with us about her hobby farm and love for gardening. 

Mentioned in this episode:

Tanya Janca – What Secure Coding Really Means 

Tanya Janca – Mentoring Monday - 5 Minute AppSec 

Tanya Janca and Nicole Becher – Hacking APIs and Web Services with DevSlop


The Expanse Series by James S.A. Corey


Alice and Bob Learn Application Security by Tanya Janca 


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16 Jul 2024Derek Fisher -- Hiring in Cyber/AppSec01:01:45

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut welcome back Derek Fisher, an expert in hardware, software, and cybersecurity with over 25 years of experience. Derek shares his advice on cybersecurity hiring, specifically in application security, and dives into the challenges of entry-level roles in the industry. The discussion also explores the value of certifications, the necessity of lifelong learning, and the importance of networking. Tune in for valuable insights on getting noticed in cybersecurity, resume tips, and the evolving landscape of AppSec careers.

Mentioned in this episode:
The Application Security Handbook by Derek Fisher

With the Old Breed by E.B. Sledge

Cyber for Builders by Ross Haleliuk

Effective Vulnerability Management by Chris Hughes


Previous episode:
Derek Fisher – The Application Security Handbook



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23 Jul 2024Andrew Van Der Stock -- The New OWASP Top Ten00:51:51

Join Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut as they sit down with Andrew Van Der Stok, a leading web application security specialist and executive director at OWASP. In this episode, Andrew discusses the latest with the OWASP Top 10 Project, the importance of data collection, and the need for developer engagement. Learn about the methodology behind building the OWASP Top 10, the significance of framework security, and much more. Tune in to get vital insights that could shape the future of web application security. Don't miss this informative discussion!

Previous episodes with Andrew Van Der Stock
Andrew van der Stock — Taking Application Security to the Masses

Andrew van der Stock and Brian Glas -- The Future of the OWASP Top 10

Books mentioned in the episode:
The Crown Road by Iain Banks

Edward Tufte

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31 Jul 2024Irfaan Santoe -- The Power of Strategy in AppSec00:40:14

Join Irfaan Santoe and hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut for an in-depth discussion on the maturity and strategy of Application Security programs. They delve into measuring AppSec maturity, return on investment, and communicating technical needs to business leaders. Irfaan shares his unique journey from consulting to becoming an AppSec professional, and addresses the gaps between CISOs and AppSec knowledge. This episode provides valuable insights for scaling AppSec programs and aligning them with business objectives. 

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29 Aug 2024Steve Springett -- Software and System Transparency00:48:13

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut welcome back Steve Springett, an expert in secure software development and a key figure in several OWASP projects. Steve unpacks CycloneDX and the value proposition of various BOMs. He gives us a rundown of the BOM landscape and unveils some new BOM projects that will continue to unify the security industry. Steve is a seasoned guest of the show so we learn a bit more about Steve's hobbies, providing a personal glimpse into his life outside of technology.

Links from this episode:

https://cyclonedx.org/

Previous episodes with Steve Springett:
JC Herz and Steve Springett -- SBOMs and software supply chain assurance

Steve Springett — An insiders checklist for Software Composition Analysis

Steve Springett -- Dependency Check and Dependency Track

Book:
Software Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society by Chris Hughes and Tony Turner



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17 Sep 2024Phillip Wylie -- Pen Testing from Somebody who Knows about Pen Testing00:52:08

Join Robert and Chris Romeo as they dive into the world of pen testing with their guest Philip Wiley. In this episode, Philip shares his unique journey from professional wrestling to being a renowned pen tester. Hear some great stories from his wrestling days, in-depth discussions on application security, and good advice on starting a career in cybersecurity. Whether you're interested in pen testing techniques, learning about security origin stories, or gaining insights into career development, this episode has something for everyone!

The Pentester Blueprint Starting a Career as an Ethical Hacker written by Phillip Wylie

The Web Application Hacker’s Handbook written by Dafydd Stuttard, Marcus Pinto

Where to find Phillip:

Website:  https://thehackermaker.com/
Podcast: https://phillipwylieshow.com/
X: https://x.com/PhillipWylie
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillipwylie/

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24 Sep 2024Jeff Williams -- Application Detection & Response (ADR)00:51:28

Join us in this week’s episode of the Application Security Podcast where we sit down with Jeff Williams, a renowned pioneer in the field of application security. Jeff discusses ADR (Application Detection and Response), detailing its potential to revolutionize security in production environments. Listen as he shares stories from his career, including the founding of OWASP and his take on security assurance. Whether you're new to AppSec or a seasoned expert, this conversation offers valuable perspectives on the industry's evolution and the challenges ahead.

Where to find Jeff:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/planetlevel/ 

Previous Episodes:
Jeff Williams – The Tech of Runtime Security

Jeff Williams – The History of OWASP


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01 Oct 2024Steve Wilson -- The Developer's Playbook for Large Language Model Security: Building Secure AI Applications00:36:32

Join hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut on the Application Security Podcast as they welcome back Steve Wilson, author of 'The Developer's Playbook for Large Language Model Security.' In this episode, they dive into critical topics such as AI hallucinations, trust, and the future of AI. Steve shares insights from his book, discusses the biggest fears surrounding AI and LLMs. He also provides practical advice on security boundaries, LLM-specific security testing tools, and the evolving landscape of AI technologies. 

Links:
The Developer’s Playbook for Large Language Model Security by Steve Wilson

Find Steve on LinkedIn

Previous Episodes:
Steve Wilson -- OWASP Top Ten for LLMs
Steve Wilson and Gavin Klondike -- OWASP Top Ten for LLM Applications Release


Two people Steve recommends you look up:
Chris Voss, Former FBI Negotiator and author of “Never Split the Difference”

Arshan Dabirsiaghi


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18 Mar 2021Alyssa Miller -- Bringing security to DevOps and the CI/CD pipeline00:40:24

Alyssa Miller is a life-long hacker, security advocate, and cybersecurity leader. She is the BISO for S&P Global ratings and has over 15 years of experience in security roles. She is heavily involved in the cybersecurity community as an international speaker, author, and advocate. Alyssa joins us to talk about bringing security to DevOps and the CI/CD pipeline. We talk about the success of the DevOps transformation, mistakes AppSec teams make with DevOps and explore the possible idea that DevSecOps is its own silo. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Alyssa Miller.

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25 Mar 2021Dr. Anita D’Amico -- Do certain types of developers or teams write more secure code?00:48:33

Dr. Anita D’Amico is the CEO of Code Dx, which provides Application Security Orchestration and Correlation solutions to industry and government. Her roots are in experimental psychology and human factors. Her attention is now focused on enhancing the decisions and work processes of software developers and AppSec analysts to make code more secure. Anita joins us to discuss research she has done answering the question, "do certain types of developers or teams write more secure code?" Being a security culture fanatic, this topic is near and dear for me. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Dr. Anita D'Amico.

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02 Apr 2021Vandana Verma -- OWASP Spotlight Series00:23:58

Vandana Verma is the President of Infosec girls and Infosec Kids, a board of directors member for OWASP, and a leader for BSides Dehli. She joins us to introduce the OWASP Spotlight Series. With each video she creates, she highlights an OWASP project. We survey the projects she's covered and discuss a specific takeaway from each for the application security person. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Vandana Verma.

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09 Apr 2021Leif Dreizler -- Tactical tips to shift engineering right00:46:05

Leif Dreizler is the manager of the Product Security team at Segment. Leif got his start in the security industry at Redspin doing security consulting work and was later an early employee at Bugcrowd. He helps organize the Bay Area OWASP Chapter, the LocoMocoSec Conference, and the AppSec California conference. Leif caught our attention when he published an article called Shifting Engineering Right: What security engineers can learn from DevSecOps. In this interview, we focus in on the tactical tips and takeaways from the article, or how you as a security person can shift engineering right. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Leif Driezler.

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16 Apr 2021Charles Shirer -- The most positive person in security00:35:44

Charles is a Senior Security Consultant for Red Siege. He has over 18 years of experience in IT. In his spare time, Charles does retro gaming and works on the SECBSD open source project, a penetration testing distro. He currently works as Staff at several Security Conferences, podcasts (GrumpyHackers) (Positively Blue Team Cast), and is a part of the MentalHealthHackers DeadPixelSec NovaHackers and  HackingisNotaCrime Family. Charles joins us to talk about positivity in InfoSec. If you've never seen Charle's videos, you're missing out. We'll unpack what drives his positivity and how we as infosec / appsec people can embrace a more positive approach to our world. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Charles Shirer.

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23 Apr 2021Izar Tarandach and Matt Coles-- Threat Modeling: A Practical Guide for Development Teams00:50:05

In this episode of the Application Security Podcast, we're joined by friends Izar and Matt, authors of the book "Threat Modeling: A Practical Guide for Development Teams." Izar is currently the Squarespace Principal Security Engineer. He lives in NY, where he enjoys telling people who separate security from development to get off his lawn. Matt is currently a Product & Application Security Engineer at Dell Technologies. Matt lives in Massachusetts, is an avid gamer, and enjoys time with his family when not thinking or talking to others about security. We discuss why they wrote the book, what it covers, the target audience, and how to wield the information within to threat model all the things. Robert and I both love the book, and highly recommend it, and on this episode, you'll hear why.

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30 Apr 2021Aaron Rinehart -- Security Chaos Engineering00:48:37

Aaron Rinehart is expanding the possibilities of chaos engineering to cybersecurity. He began pioneering security in chaos engineering when he released ChaoSlingr during his tenure as Chief Security Architect at UnitedHealth Group (UHG). Rinehart is the O'Reilly Author on Security Chaos Engineering and has recently founded a chaos engineering startup called Verica with Casey Rosenthal from Netflix. Aaron joins us to explain what the heck security chaos engineering is. We explore the origin story of chaos engineering and security chaos engineering and how a listener starts with this new technique. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Aaron Rinehart.

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07 May 2021Dustin Lehr -- Advocating and being on the side of developers00:36:34

Before taking the plunge into information security leadership, Dustin Lehr spent over a decade as a software engineer and architect in a variety of industries, including retail, DoD, and even video games. This diverse background has helped him forge close partnerships with development teams, engineering leaders, and software security advocates while pursuing the organizational culture shift of building good security habits into daily work. Dustin joins us to talk about the challenges developers face with security and so much more. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Dustin Lehr.

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21 May 2021Dima Kotik -- Application Security and the Zen of Python00:39:17

Dima Kotik is an Application Security Engineer at Security Journey and has been programming in Python for years. As he was working on building out Security Journey's Secure Coding with Python content, he came across the Zen of Python, a set of guidelines for how to program in Python. He wrote a blog post about how to apply application security to the Zen of Python, and then we recorded this interview to talk about the concept in more depth. We hope you enjoy this interview with....Dima Kotik.

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11 Jun 2021Jeevan Singh -- Threat modeling based in democracy00:36:18

Jeevan Singh is a Security Engineer Manager at Segment, where he is embedding security into all aspects of the software development process. Jeevan enjoys building security culture within organizations and educating staff on security best practices. Before life in the security space, Jeevan had a wide variety of development and leadership roles over the past 15 years. Jeevan joins us to speak about self-serve threat modeling at Segment or threat modeling based in democracy. We discuss their focus with the program, how it fits in their dev methodology and their ultimate goal with the threat modeling program. We hope you enjoy this conversation with... Jeevan Singh.

Additional Resources:

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15 Jul 2021Thinking back, Looking forward - A Balanced Approach to Securing our Software Future01:11:53

Kevin Greene is the Director of Security Solutions at Parasoft and has extensive experience and expertise in software security, cyber research and development, and DevOps. He leverages his knowledge to create meaningful solutions and technologies to improve software security practices. Kevin and I had a conversation to discuss software security from the past and into the future. We cover how to make security easier for developers, SBOM, software minimalism, cyber resiliency, and so much more! We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Kevin Greene.

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06 Aug 2021Jeroen Willemsen -- Security automation with ci/cd00:32:22

Jeroen Willemsen is a Principal Security Architect at Xebia. Jeroen is more or less a jack of all trades with an interest in infrastructure security, risk management, and application security. With a love for mobile security, he enjoys sharing knowledge on various security topics. Jeroen joins us to unpack security automation in a DevOps world. We discuss categories of tools, typical quick wins, potential downsides, and how dependency management specifically plays into automation. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Jeroen Willemsen.

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13 Aug 2021Mark Loveless -- Threat modeling in a DevSecOps environment.00:36:19

Mark Loveless - aka Simple Nomad - is a security researcher and hacker. He's spoken at numerous security and hacker conferences worldwide, including Blackhat, DEF CON, ShmooCon, and RSA. He's been quoted in the press including CNN, Washington Post, and the New York Times. Mark joins us to discuss his series of blog posts on Threat Modeling at GitLab. We discuss his philosophical approach, framework choice (spoiler alert, it's a pared down version of PASTA), and success stories / best practices he's seen for threat modeling success. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Mark Loveless.

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20 Aug 2021Eran Kinsbruner -- DevSecOps Continuous Testing00:35:43

Eran Kinsbruner is the Chief Evangelist and Senior Director at Perforce Software. His published books include the 2016 Amazon bestseller, “The Digital Quality Handbook”, “Continuous Testing for DevOps Professionals”, and “Accelerating Software Quality – ML and AI in the Age of DevOps”. Eran is a recognized influencer on continuous testing and DevOps thought leadership, an international speaker, and blogger. Eran joins us to talk about the role of testing in a secure software pipeline. We talk about the intersection of security and quality, biggest challenges in getting started, and even a brief conversation about how SAST is used to check automotive software. We hope you enjoy this conversation with...Eran Kinsbruner.

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14 Sep 2021Anastasiia Voitova -- Encryption is easy, key management is hard00:33:45

Anastasiia Voitova is the Head of customer solutions and a security software engineer at Cossack Labs. She works on data security and encryption tools and their integration into the real world apps.

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Thanks for Listening!

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