Talking Pointes (Claudia Lawson, Fjord Review)

Today we're speaking with the divine Danielle Rowe. Dani grew up in South Australia, and by 14 she had moved interstate to train [in ballet] under Marie Walton Mann. Within a year of that, she'd been accepted into the Australian Ballet School, and on graduation, she was offered a position with the company, but the accolades didn't stop. Dani rose to principal artist, won the Telstra Ballet Dancer award twice, and represented the Australian Ballet company around the world from London to China. But in a move that defines the superstars trajectory, she wanted more. She left Australia and moved to the US, joining Houston Ballet as a principal artist. Less than a year later, she was offered a contract with a prestigious Netherlands Dance Theater. In this wondrous conversation, Dani and I talk about her career across three continents, how she found choreography, about managing long distance relationships, her want for a family, and ultimately how she became the first female artistic director of Oregon Ballet Theater. 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with Steven McRae, Principal Dancer with the Royal Ballet, London. Steven grew up in Western Sydney, in a suburb called Plumpton, 45kms West of Sydney. His Dad was a drag car racer, and no one in the family had ever learnt to dance. But somehow, dance found Steven, And at the age of 7, he asked his Mum and Dad if he could start dance lessons and he enrolled in a local studio around the corner from home. It was a life changing decision. By 17, he had not only won the Genée and the Prix de Lausanne, he was standing alone in London having been accepted into the Royal Ballet School—his heartbroken mother on the plane home. In this beautifully candid conversation, Steven talks about his journey to Principal at the Royal Ballet by the age of 23— and that, it’s not all as it seems; he speaks about early bullying, crippling home sickness, not always fitting in, and devastating injuries.

But Steven speaks of more than that; he talks about starting his own family with his wife Elizabeth Harrod—also a dancer at the Royal Ballet, his post retirement plans, and the moment he snapped his Achilles tendon live on stage in front of 2,500 people, and how he climbed back from the impossible, to perform with the Royal Ballet once again.

Steven continues to perform as a Principal Artist with the Royal Ballet in London, all the while juggling life with his wife Elizabeth and their 3 children Audrey, Frederick and Rupert. If you’re in London, the Royal Ballet is back on stage, for show times and tickets head to roh.org.uk, and to follow all of Steven’s adventures, you can follow him @StevenMcRae_

Steven and I recorded our conversation remotely, with Steven dialling in from London, while the podcast recorded on the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I'm speaking with David Hallberg, the new Artistic Director of The Australian Ballet. David was born in a small American town called Rapid City in South Dakota. David started dancing at nine years old, after seeing Fred Astaire on the television. And he only started ballet when he was 13. But by 17, he was selected to do a year at the Paris Opera Ballet School before joining his dream company, ABT, the American Ballet Theatre.

He rose swiftly through the ranks, to principal within four years, and then he was the first American to be asked to be a principal with the Bolshoi Ballet, the Russian juggernaut that had previously only accepted Russian trained dancers. In this wonderfully engaging interview, David talks about his love of dance, growing up in America, and the moment he was first named as a principal. But David also shares some of his darker moments. He talks about bullying, and the injury that crippled him for over two years, before finally returning to the stage and becoming the new Artistic Director of the Australian Ballet. When we spoke, David had just announced that due to Covid the Australian Ballet won't be performing for the remainder of 2021.

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview 

Host @byclaudialawson

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Li Cunxin, artistic director of the Queensland Ballet, joins us today on Talking Pointes. Most of you will know Li from his early life. He is Mao's Last Dancer. Li was born into complete poverty in rural China, where he was plucked from obscurity to join the Beijing Dance Academy. He was put through years of brutal training, up to 16 hours a day, to become a dancer. However, his life was meant to be one of twists and turns. He was chosen to undergo an exchange to the United States to dance with the Houston Ballet and while he was there he fell in love and married an American dancer. The resulting standoff between the USA and China made Li a global name, and with it, a ballet superstar. But with that success also came pain. In this wonderfully personal and at times emotional interview, Li shares stories from his early life, and the trauma of being banned from China, but he also shares the highs, reuniting with his parents, finding enduring love and to learning Auslan for his eldest daughter, Sophie. Hosted by Claudia Lawson

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes returns for an epic third season. On this season, we're speaking with some of the biggest dance superstars in Australia. We're chatting about their lives and careers, navigating everything from promotion, pregnancy, and making principal. But we are also going overseas, speaking to Australian dancers and international artists who've made their careers around the globe. We're heading to London and to America. From Portland, Oregon on the West coast to New York City. There are life highs and career lows, and we chat everything from bullying, sexuality, confidence, inspiration, and navigating retirement. Find Talking Pointes wherever you listen to your podcasts. And to get the latest episodes, please subscribe or follow. Season three will be rolling out from Tuesday, September 26th, 2023. 

Production by

Claudia Lawson, host @byclaudialawson

Martin Peralta, sound designer @outputmedia

Penelope Ford, producer @fjordreview

Clint Topic, additional sound production @sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes was recorded on traditional lands of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, Awabakal and Worimi. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the Artistic Director of Sydney Dance Company, Rafael  Bonachela. Rafael grew up in the small town of La Garriga near Barcelona in Spain, the eldest of four brothers. With no dance school in the town, the young Rafael would instead create dances for himself and his classmates, before at 15, being allowed to take the train to Barcelona to take his first dance class. It was a pivotal moment - both a star and a passion was born. By 17 he was offered a professional contract and was travelling Europe as a contemporary dancer. But rather than continue on that trajectory, Rafael wanted to hone his craft, and decided to return to the studio to train, he moved to London and trained with London Studio Centre. From here, Rafael’s world exploded - with dance, with love, and with creating movement—which now had a name, choreography. In this beautifully intimate and joyful interview, Rafael talks about his early years in Spain, bullying, coming out in London just as AIDS had arrived on the scene, losing hair, finding love, life and choreography and living out his dreams. But more than that, Rafael talks about how he came to accept the position of Artistic Director with Sydney Dance Company, what he looks for in selecting dancers and how he has turned Sydney Dance Company into a powerhouse of contemporary dance in Australia, recognised across the globe.

Rafael continues to lead the Sydney Dance Company. The Company is now back on the stage and touring "Impermanence," the work Rafael created during COVID. For tour dates and to buy tickets, head to sydneydancecompany.com, or you can find Sydney Dance Company on Instagram @sydneydanceco, and to follow all of Rafael’s adventures, you can follow him @rafaelbonachela.

Rafael and I recorded our conversation in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

For our summer season bonus episode, we’re catching up with the divine Emma Watkins. In season one, Emma and I spoke about her life growing up in Sydney. We spoke about her early dance years, about injuries and auditions, and then being selected to be the first ever female Wiggle. We spoke about Emma’s passion for Auslan, her PhD, and we also spoke about love, surviving endometriosis, and fertility. To hear that conversation, just scroll back to episode six of season one.

Today, nearly 18 months on, Emma and I speak about what her life is following her departure from The Wiggles. We speak about her new character, Emma Memma, and what it’s like to be on the precipice of handing in her PhD. We also speak about her marriage to new husband Olly, and her plans for the future.

Emma’s bonus episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian-made brand that specialize in creating world-class dance wear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks premium, high performance fabrics. You can see their entire range online at energetiks.com.au. For all Talking Pointes listeners, there’s a 20% discount on all Energetiks products. Just use the code EMMA20 at the checkout. The offer’s available until the end of August, 2023.

Host @byclaudialawson

Transcript:

Claudia Lawson: Hello.

Emma Watson: Hello.

CL: In the lead-up to this interview, I was trying to get the timing of our last chat, which was about 18 months ago. You were newly engaged to Olly, and happily dancing as a Wiggle.

EW: That’s so long ago. It feels like a whole nother lifetime ago now.

CL: Yeah. I think our chat was sort of mid-2021, so we were in the deep dark Sydney lockdown. A few things have changed since then.

EW: Yeah, lots of things have changed, and it really does feel like a completely different chapter now.

CL: I bet. Can you talk us through, I assume, an epic decision to leave The Wiggles? Can you talk us through the decision-making process and your head space leading up to that call?

EW: I think through the lockdown, multiple times, I had a lot of time to focus on my thesis, which essentially was going on the whole time I was touring and performing. It’s been part of my life for most of the time anyway. But because we weren’t touring as much, I did have a little bit more time to sit and think, and reflect, and write. It really started to make sense for me that this particular part of research that I had been embarking on was needing to be finished. Probably 18 months ago when we spoke last time, it probably should have been finished then.

CL: How long have you been doing your PhD?

EW: I guess when you ask anyone that’s doing a PhD, it’s a bit more extended than what was originally planned. I’m doing my PhD through Macquarie University, so it’s a bundle approach where you do a master’s and then you do your PhD.

CL: Oh, I see. Yeah.

EW: The master’s is helpful, yeah, because you’re kind of doing a little bit of the PhD first.

CL: So you sort of step up. Yeah. Okay.

EW: Yeah. Currently, it’s probably been about five years altogether, which probably isn’t as long as some people do their thesis for. But it does feel like most of the research that we have been doing has been going on for over a decade anyway, so it has been a real conscious decision to put the line down now, which I’ve been told many times in the last month.

CL: When is the line?

EW: The line is at the end of March. I feel like I shouldn’t say that in case I don’t get there.

CL: Oh, Dr. Watkins.

EW: It feels positive yet. Yeah.

CL: Okay, so lockdown happens. It’s the first time that really you haven’t toured with The Wiggles in almost really a decade. It was an extensive touring program that they had. Is it sort of like COVID gives you this moment to pause?

EW: Absolutely. Of course, the pandemic is positive and negative. It has different effects on lots of different people. I really can’t talk for everybody, but in terms of my situation and stopping traveling after 10 years constantly, I think my body just didn’t know what to do with itself. For the first time, it was like, “I think we’re on a body holiday.” That was actually something that I needed so much, but I didn’t realize. Not just for a dancer and having a moment to stop, which kind of feels contradictory because you don’t really ever want to stop your body, because then sometimes it can go into breakdown, which has happened to me as well, but at times it does release you and give you some sort of freedom to start again. I mean, now, 18 months on … Even just the original stopping during the pandemic, my body felt a sigh of relief, but now, 18 months on, it’s completely different again.

CL: Is it really? In what way?

EW: Look, I’m probably not as fit as I used to be in terms of show fitness, but my body is definitely reacting differently because it’s not under pressure of being in a car for a million hours, driving, on a plane every second day. There’s definitely something different about … my body feels that it is not as restricted. That, in a way, I feel like I’m learning ballet back at square one. I’m training online with a beautiful teacher over Zoom. Which, we met through the pandemic, over Zoom. I’ve been training with her ever since. So ever since we started talking, that’s when I met her.

CL: Wow. So, what, you’re taking weekly ballet classes?

EW: Essentially, three times a week with her.

CL: Wow.

EW: Because I live now in the country, which is also very different to where we were 18 months ago in a really tiny apartment in Sydney. Because we were in the lockdown in there, that was a real time. Not for us as a couple, but you just get so cramped if your body can’t move more than 10 meters and you can’t go outside. I think now that we’ve moved south of Sydney and we have a little bit of a backyard, it’s instantly completely different.

CL: Okay, hang on. I feel like we are-

EW: I know. Sorry.

CL: … PhD. No, we are country moving. It’s all the topics I want to hear about. But first of all, let’s head back to that word retirement, from The Wiggles. I mean, it’s an epic word to say out loud. When did it start creeping in?

EW: The word itself?

CL: Yeah. Just even to make that announcement or to think this could be a reality.

EW: I guess I never thought about the word retirement, even though it was yelled at me over the street. I’d be taking the dogs for a walk and people were like, “Congratulations on your retirement.” I’m like, “Really?” I guess I understand the use of the term because I was stepping away from that particular role. But for me, it more felt like an internship that was really important to the way that I was forming my critical thinking and performance mode. I was like, “Okay, that’s that chapter, but I think some of the research that we’ve been working on is really important, that we need to focus on now so that we can act on it in the future if we ever want to make children’s content, or any content, really, for that sake, from this point forward.” So I understand that retirement, I guess it was a bit overused because I’m certainly probably too young to be retired, and couldn’t retire anyway. We need to work. Certainly retiring from the role, but it more felt like a chapter, for me.

CL: Yeah. Maybe that’s a perception from the outside. Because your personality and the character Emma Wiggle, there was so much overlap, that perhaps from the outside, it was like, “How difficult must it have been to step away?” But maybe not so much from the inside.

EW: No, definitely hard. Yeah. I think for me as a person and a personal journey, it’s taken this long for me to separate myself from that personality as well. You don’t realize how inextricably embroiled they become. Because we were so fortunate to bring our own characteristics and hobbies and interests to the role, it was a part of me, and it will always be a part of me. Absolutely.

CL: Was it scary?

EW: Yeah, I think it always is. We had lots of discussions, particularly with Olly and I. We ended up reflecting on a lot of people in the performance industry, particularly dancers who might have grown up only dancing and having that as their one goal. Because a dancer’s life, in some schools of thought, is quite short, when they don’t perform anymore, or when they have retired from the company, they’re still so young. Because that becomes such a big part of their identity, yeah, how do you move on from that? I think for some people it can be quite debilitating.

CL: Oh, absolutely. That passion that they’ve had, where do they go? Yeah.

EW: Yeah. But actually, I think it might be the opposite. I just feel completely free, as in …

CL: So good.

EW: I feel like, now, there was … There’s lots of different thoughts in my head about this next chapter. It’s not just specifically about work or career, it’s also about having time to spend with family, and having time to spend at home and sit down and have a cup of tea. Some of those things I forgot about over the 10 years. So being able to reconnect with friends that I hadn’t seen for over a decade was also something that I never had time for. It’s been an eye-opening experience. Also, that we now have time to talk to people. Just take a moment to connect with families, through our work as well, but also in the new neighborhood that we are a part of, and find out what people are really looking for in the world now.

CL: Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that about the retirement because I suppose you also had a second passion bubbling along in the background with your PhD. Some of the people I’ve spoken to who have found retirement so difficult is because ballet or dance or performance has been there.

EW: Is everything.

CL: Yeah, they’re everything. And then when they stop or their body stops, where do they put that energy or that passion?

EW: Absolutely. Emma Wiggle was everything to me. I didn’t think about anything else but her. I was just infatuated with that experience and the journey, and always wanting to try and improve her. I had such a good chunk of time to really work on it, as well. It’s not really normal for people to play one character for a decade.

CL: Yeah, that’s so true, isn’t it?

EW: Yeah. I had to really think about that as well. It’s also not normal to be photographed in the same outfit for decades. I didn’t realize that either. So, all of a sudden stepping away from that role, and then initially, obviously, focusing on the thesis. And then all of a sudden being approached to do other projects, and wearing different costumes and being a different … I just was like, “Wow, I didn’t know that this was possible.”

CL: You step away to do the PhD or to focus more on the PhD, does Emma Memma feature in that thought process?

EW: Not at the time when I stepped away. We knew that … One of the outcomes of the research is to practically put in place what we’ve been researching.

CL: Okay, can you summarize?

EW: Yeah.

CL: Just for your supervisor’s approval. What is your PhD looking into?

EW: My supervisor’s going to be crying right now. I love her to pieces. She’s the best thing since slice bread. For some reason I can’t articulate it, which is probably the reason why it’s still going. My PhD is about creative integration of dance, sign language, and film editing. Really, it’s about a comparison between people who use sign language and people who might grow up as trained dancers, and what are the similar skills that they both have? Sometimes they are in our subconscious or they’re not known, they become techniques of intuition. Essentially, we have really similar qualities, but there is not a lot of crossover between people who use sign language and dance, and not a lot of dancers who use sign language.

But I feel like it’s really silly, this is not in the PhD, the word silly, I feel like it’s really strange that we don’t have more crossover in those fields because we could really learn from each other. From a dancer’s point of view … This is too long, obviously, for a clarification. For a dancer’s point of view, if your career is very short, then you can apply your skills as visual detailed professionals to be learning sign language, and actually help in the workforce where we have such a lack currently right now in the deaf workplace.

CL: As you say that, I’m thinking of those classic scenes from the ballet where the princess comes on. She invites the entire courtroom to dance. And then there’s that classic arms above your head, spin the-

EW: Yes, roly-poly.

CL: Roly-poly.

EW: Yeah, “Come and dance with us.”

CL: “Come and dance with me.” And then there’s the bow to say, “Thanks, everyone.” You’re so right, they communicate through their use of their hands, their arms, their face. And yet, why is that not translated into skills with Auslan? Because actually-

EW: Unbelievable.

CL: Yeah. I mean, of course, I imagine people who are hearing impaired completely understand what those dancers are gesturing, but why wouldn’t we integrate that?

EW: One of the challenges is music. I think music becomes a really big barrier for both sides. People that are deaf and people that are hearing, I think people that are hearing, this is a generalization, will think that it’s not possible for somebody who’s deaf to join in. Whereas people that are deaf don’t really … There are some schools of thought that music isn’t part of the community, but that actually is not quite true for everybody. It’s not really about music in the aural sense, but music is actually movement. Even if you were playing an instrument, you have to move your body to play the instrument. Essentially, my argument is that, “Music is movement, so let’s get rid of the barrier, bring down the wall, and let’s have a party because we know things that each other knows. We use them without thinking about it, so let’s embrace it.”

CL: Emma Memma is your new children’s character that you have launched. Did she evolve out of the PhD as almost like a test case?

EW: Yes, that’s right. Yep.

CL: That’s your data collection, isn’t it?

EW: Yeah.

CL: I love that.

EW: Yes, Emma Memma is an outcome of the thesis, but it wasn’t known to me at the time when I decided to leave. I just knew that I needed to do the thesis, essentially.

CL: With Emma Memma, what are you hoping to bring to your audiences with her?

EW: It’s really interesting that we’re even doing this interview at the time because I’m definitely writing the thesis now. I’m definitely a hundred pages in. It’s-

CL: This is a discussion, right?

EW: I really honestly feel that this is just a piece of sand in a very big beach. I don’t think that Emma Memma solves all the problems for integrating these visual elements. The reason why we chose this avenue is because, A, we have experience in children’s entertainment, but B, also because it’s the easiest platform to try a very simplistic test. With Emma Memma, some of our music, well most, is only based on two words and two signs. You can’t really do a test without having such strict controls. Again, I’m talking about a test, but it’s not really. We have given ourselves the boundary to create music with very little English, spoken English or sung English, so that we can make sure that the sign that’s matching it is completely understood. And then we just go from there. So all of the songs on our first album … We only have two.

CL: So Wednesday and Wombat, and then going on an airplane. Okay, I’m starting to see the theme here.

EW: Yeah. There’s some reviews like, “Ah, why is this so simple? It’s so boring.” I completely understand that viewpoint, but that was actually our goal. We’re like, “How simple do we need to go for everyone to understand this sign?”

CL: Wow.

EW: Essentially. Yeah.

CL: I love that. That the songs are too simple, and you’re like, “No, no, no, no, no. This is for the PhD.”

EW: Yeah, this is a goal. What’s interesting touring … we’re not really touring, but performing in front of a group of people, which at most times was only about a hundred people at a time, just so that we could … I mean, for me, all I’m doing is watching people. In that space of time, which might have been an hour, we were doing a few songs and then meeting every single family that was in the room. For most of the time, it just shocked me how many people in the audience picked up the signs straight away without knowing the song. That’s the key. Because all of these songs that we’ve put out in the last 12 months are not very … It’s not widespread. A lot of people don’t know them. It’s not like singing “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” or “Baa Baa Black Sheep,” a nursery rhyme that is quite common.

We were bringing completely new songs to an audience that some of the people obviously had listened because they had followed us, but some people, you think parents, particularly dads who … they just happened to be there, they obviously are not listening to me on social media, and that is fine. But in the space of the room, they could join in because they knew that it was only one or two signs, and then did it straight away. That’s what I was watching the whole time. I was like, “Wow, everyone’s copying.” It’s only two signs. And then, for us, it’s really about that movement or that dance choreography that’s embedded in Emma Memma, or in any of the songs, is actually a sign. It’s not just an irrelevant dance move. That’s become very clear to me over the last 12 months.

CL: Sorry. I remember in our last chat you had said … I think it was that you were hopeful that every person could just sign, “Do you need help?”

EW: Yeah. We haven’t done that song.

CL: Yeah, that’s the next album.

EW: See how many words that is, do you … Yes.

CL: You can’t get to four yet.

EW: Not yet.

CL: Was it hard? I mean, you came into The Wiggles in an established brand, and then you sort of took it to far higher highs with Emma. Was it a tricky process or was it difficult to launch from scratch on your own?

EW: I’ve actually just found it really interesting. I guess I don’t really have any expectations of being some sort of a success, or worldwide success. It’s not really about that for us. It really-

CL: Kind of surprising to hear you say that because you’re obviously so well loved around the world as Emma Wiggle. No thoughts that it might go well?

EW: I mean, we’d love it to, but I think that’s got to be dependent on whether the content is usable. Yeah, of course, we totally could have decided to just do children’s entertainment for the sake of it, or work in any other region. I mean, what’s interesting about the last year was that I worked on so many different projects that weren’t even related to children’s entertainment. I went back and taught at my high school. I was tutoring online. I’ve been doing sign language interpreting course. I was so lucky to do Lego Masters. None of that stuff is in the same region, really.

CL: No. And then you did The Masked Singer. You’ve done Reef School.

EW: Yeah, Reef School. Some really beautiful projects that that’s also been alongside this. This really, it has been such an amazing, I guess it’s almost like a workshop. Honestly, we’ve met some incredible families that I guess have been hungry for some content that provides accessibility within their family structure. We met a beautiful … we met lots of amazing families, but we met a family in Perth. The grandmother came with her grandchildren. I think she came with her daughter as well. She was signing to our deaf consultant who was there, Sue. Sue was horridly waving at me across the room. I came over, and then we were signing with the grandmother. The grandmother signed to me. She’s like, “You have no idea, I’ve not been able to watch a show with my grandchild prior to this.” I was like, “Oh, wow, that means a lot.” I think that’s something that hasn’t left us, because now we’ve realized how important it is to embed sign language foundation in this movement. Because it should be. It just doesn’t make sense to me why it …

CL: Are you fully fluent in Auslan?

EW: No, but I have … That was very quick, wasn’t it? I don’t know if you can … You’d have to be signing for decades, I think. I just know so many people who sign beautifully that I wouldn’t be able to call myself fluent. But I have my diploma in Auslan, and I’m doing my interpreter’s course. Essentially, one of the criteria is fluency, so I can have a conversation quite easily. All of our classes are in sign language for three hours at a time.

CL: Wow.

EW: So yes, we can converse in sign language, as we should be able to, but I still forget signs. I can’t express myself sometimes. I think that’s the frustration with being a student. Maybe ask me again in 10 years.

CL: What actually sparked your initial interest in signing and Auslan as a non-deaf person?

EW: Yeah, that’s a good question. I’ve been asked that question a lot this year. Because mostly, people are exposed to somebody that is deaf through their family. 95% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. So for those parents, that’s the first deaf person they might meet. The reality is quite weird, but there are lots of people who learn sign language just because they are interested in the culture and the community. I happened to have a friend at my primary school, we were probably about seven or eight, and her brothers are deaf. We would go to their house and play. That’s my first exposure to sign language. I think I was just infatuated with it then. Because I was like, “Oh, what are they saying? What are they doing?” Watching my best friend sign to them, I was like, “Oh, can you show me?” so it just really snowballed from there.

I tried to learn sign language through high school, and after high school and through touring. It was so difficult because you needed to be there in person. I’d enrolled so many times and wasn’t able to complete the course because I then went away on tour. So through the pandemic, again, another really strange positive to this story, was that the course was changed to be online. Then I completed an assessment test and was really, I guess, quite lucky, because I’d also been continuing discussions with my deaf friends and my deaf network. So I didn’t have to start from scratch. I was able to go to certificate three and four and do them at the same time. And then did my diploma. And then here we are in the interpreter’s course.

CL: It’s so incredible what you’re going to bring to that community, but also to the entertainment and the dance community. It’s just so incredible because, actually, you’re bringing something to both. Actually, it’s funny that you just mentioned dance [inaudible 00:26:35]. As I was looking at all the things that you’ve done last year, and especially going on The Masked Singer, remember our chat about all your auditions singing? I just was actually … I had a wry smile, and I thought, “Now you’re being really recognized as a singer.”

EW: Okay, this is just … Okay, when they approached me to do The Masked Singer, I was like, “Great. I think I can do that in the mask because then I don’t have to face anyone.” The whole time we were filming, I was nervous as ever, but I knew that nobody knew who I was. Well, that’s what I thought, but obviously I was way too obvious. And that’s okay. That’s okay. I wasn’t clever enough to change my voice because I was so stressed about the singing, and that’s fine. But then when you take the mask off, the head off, I didn’t remember that you had to sing. So when I was revealed and I took the mask off, having a chat with Osher, and like, “Everything’s cool,” then they’re like, “Okay, here’s the microphone,” I think I did nearly wee my pants, and I wasn’t really ready. Yeah, I wasn’t ready.

CL: So you thought the zombie head was just hiding your …

EW: Absolutely.

CL: But it was so cute because you had the turned out little first position.

EW: So silly. Why did I do that? Why? I look back now, I’m like, “What was I doing? Why?”

CL: Personal life. Obviously huge amounts of change as well since we last spoke. You’ve married Olly. Can you tell us about that day?

EW: Well, it was pretty lovely. But as Olly and I are, we’re pretty casual. The wedding was in very regional Victoria at a homestead that was quite close to Olly’s grandfather, who was the eldest participant at our wedding. We wanted to make sure he could be there, so we were asking a lot of other people, friends and family, to travel past Warrnambool, which is very far away in our eyes, when you live in Sydney. Or Brisbane for that matter. It was just a lovely … It was just a really lovely day. It just felt like a garden lunch.

CL: You’ve moved out of Sydney.

EW: We have.

CL: Good? What’s it like?

EW: It’s so good. We’ve moved to the Southern Highlands to a place called Robertson. I guess I can probably name the town because it sounds like everybody knows that I live here now.

CL: Yeah, I think it’s fairly widely reported in the media, I’ve got to say.

EW: It is such a beautiful part of the country. We moved down here for so many different reasons, but my parents are down here, my sister’s down here. We’re all a lot closer than we were before. Particularly after the tour, we wanted to make sure that we could see each other more often. And we love animals and nature, and we do have lots of animals at home. Yeah, it’s basically a farm stay.

CL: Wow. Was there any adjustment moving out of the city?

EW: You don’t realize how weird it is until you go back to the city. During 2022, I was driving to Sydney to do some filming and some work, The Masked Singer and the like.

CL: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

EW: Every time I drove into Sydney, my shoulders would raise up near my ears. I’m like, “Oh, the traffic and people.” I just became a grandmother instantly, within about two months. I was like, “There’s so many people.” You just don’t …

CL: So noisy, no parking.

EW: The Robertson post shop is basically the highlight of my life, where you can drive straight up to it and walk in and talk to the person and then drive away. There’s no line. There’s no issue. You get parking every time. You don’t have to even pay for parking. It’s completely different.

CL: And then you said at the start when we were chatting that you thought your body had gone through a sort of … Did you say breakdown since …

EW: Oh, as in it had a break. My body was happy. But then it also, I think as dancers have, when you’re not doing as much as you used to do physically, your body starts to go into a bit of … I can’t describe it. I’ve basically realized that my feet strength and some of my bones were starting to have a moment. I do now have arthritis in one of my feet.

CL: Do you?

EW: It’s actually starting to heal, surprisingly. So I think it was just a moment where it was like, “We need to stop. Now we’re going to turn into a snowman, and now we’re okay.”

CL: Also, you were touring eight plus months a year and performing every day. I mean, there’s just no way you can even maintain any training regime.

EW: You can’t.

CL: You can’t maintain.

EW: You actually can’t.

CL: No.

EW: No, it’s just not possible. But obviously, now, with a different training regime, not doing as much physical things that I was doing before, but different things that are helping my body stay at least flexible and strong, my body’s so different. My body’s moving better now than it was before.

CL: Really?

EW: And I’m just not moving it as much as I used to.

CL: Wow. And the endometriosis?

EW: Well, that’s the same thing. It’s just unbelievable.

CL: Is it really?

EW: I must have had so much stress on my body, not just physically doing things, but I think that the traveling was really knocking my body around. Of which I kind of knew, but didn’t really know. It was only sometimes in the last year when I’d catch a plane. I haven’t really been on a plane that much in the last 12 months. And then getting off the plane and my body absolutely going into meltdown.

CL: Really?

EW: Like, “Wow, okay. It really doesn’t like a plane.” So now I know that it doesn’t like a plane.

CL: Right. That extended sitting and just everything that comes with that.

EW: I think it’s the pressure. I think it’s the cabin pressure. Yeah. So now, again, there’s more controls. Now I can actually work out what the problem … what setting it off all the time.

CL: You’ve got that time to watch how your body responds.

EW: You’ve got that time to have a moment after a plane. Whereas before, I’d get off the plane, and then instantly be on stage. My body would be like, “Help, help, help, help.”

CL: Wow.

EW: But now I know what’s going on. Obviously, I’ve got on a plane this year. It’s okay. You just have to manage it and know. You just have to be nice to yourself.

CL: Yeah. I often thought of that when the Emma Memma costume launched. I remember you saying when … Emma Wiggles costume, none of us knew that you had endometriosis. And I don’t think you knew.

EW: No.

CL: So just managing that behind the scenes in a career that is so performance based.

EW: Yeah. My costume is a lot cooler now. It’s just a whole different material.

CL: Perfect. Breathable.

EW: It’s amazing. Yeah. Completely different. Yeah.

CL: Amazing. What are your hopes for this year?

EW: Oh, there’s so many hopes. I mean, the first hope is submitting the thesis.

CL: Dr. Watkins. I love it.

EW: Oh, I can’t even think about it. I just know that it’s going to come back with revisions. That’s okay. You just have to accept that. It’s not about that. It’s just about doing a good job in terms of presenting the research. So that hopefully we can build on it in the future, or it helps other people acquire some other skills. But for Emma Memma, we’re hoping to film our very first TV series, as in a long-form TV series. So we’ve been in lots of different discussions with different parties across the world. It’s just been trying to make the right decision about who we might want to partner with, that’s going to understand the nuances of sign languages around the world as well. We want to make sure that we partner with the right people.

CL: Because around the world, they don’t speak Auslan. Auslan is …

EW: Auslan is only used in Australia. There are some similarities with New Zealand sign language and British sign language. But for most of it, that’s the beauty about sign language because the culture is embedded in the language. You can see the different culture when you watch different sign languages across the world. So that’s really important for us. But also, we are very, very fortunate. We’re in a pre-literal audience space where we can use iconic shapes as well, gestures, mime, dance. So that mixture and that balance is what we’re trying to write now into proper video scripts to prepare us for a TV series. Yeah.

CL: Wow. Any other post-doctoral …

EW: What do you do with it? I mean, again, all of the research that’s part of the PhD is really informing us about Emma Memma, but also other projects. We have been very fortunate, again, to be approached to do lots of different creative collaborations. As soon as I receive any kind of email, you just look at it straight away and you’re like, “Is this accessible to my friend?” And then that gives us a really good indication about whether we should choose it or not as well. I wouldn’t want to do anything that … For example, Sue, my friend, I wouldn’t want to do anything that she couldn’t have access to as well. That’s really important for me.

CL: Wow. This is a strange question to perhaps end with, but you are just such a delight. Every time I’ve spoken with you, had any interaction, the way that you must have to hold yourself when you’re in public because children recognize you. Does Emma Watkins ever have a moment of angst? Do you get cranky, Emma?

EW: I really only get upset if my animals are sick. I literally go to the goats every morning. If one of them’s having a moment, I come, I’m like, “Why are they sick?” That’s really my only moment of frustration is having animals that are sick when I don’t know what’s gone wrong.

CL: Wow. Because you just seem to have such a positive outlook on life. You have such … it would seem, such beautiful relationships with everyone that you deal with. It’s just, what an asset to all the communities that you work with.

EW: Thank you. I guess we can’t really complain. We’re very lucky.

CL: Emma Watkins, thank you so much. I can’t wait to see what you do this year. Just all the best for you and Olly as well.

EW: Thank you so much.

CL: If you’d like to hear more about Emma’s life, you can find our full conversation in the show notes. For Emma Memma tour dates, songs and updates, you can find her on Instagram @emmamemmamemma. To continue to follow all of Emma’s life adventures, you’ll find her on Instagram as well @emmawatkinsofficial.

Emma and I recorded remotely, with Emma dialing in from Robertson, the land of the Gundungurra and Thaua people, with recording and production on the land of the Awabakal and Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. Talking Pointes is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the episodes as soon as they’re released. And if you like us, please leave a five star review. Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing by Martin Peralta at Output Media.

This is our final episode of our summer season. We cannot thank our guests enough for sharing their stories and lives, and all of their vulnerabilities. To our beautiful audience, thank you once again for your overwhelming response. Season three of Talking Pointes is in the works and will be available wherever you get your podcasts later this year. In the meantime, if you’ve enjoyed the series, please hit five stars, and subscribe or follow to be notified of when new episodes are released. If you’d like to follow along, you’ll find me on Instagram @byclaudialawson. For all your ballet and dance news, head to fjordreview.com.

Images: Emma Watkins as Emma Memma. Images courtesy of Emma Watkins.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Congratulations to Talking Pointes, bronze medal winner of Best Arts & Culture podcast for the Australian Podcast Awards. To celebrate, we are revisiting conversations with our guests from Season One. 

 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

For our Season Three bonus episode, we speak again with the divine Dana Stephensen. Dana and I initially spoke about 18 months ago, and in that conversation we covered Dana’s journey into the Australian Ballet, managing her hyperthyroidism and weight gain. We talked about promotions, meeting her now husband Lachie becoming a mom and returning to the stage. This time I speak to the newly retired Dana Stephensen, who after 19 years dancing with the Australian Ballet finally gave a farewell performance at the Royal Opera House in London. In this hugely inspiring episode, we reflect on the depth and the bravery of Dana speaking about postnatal depression after the birth of her twins, how she returned to the stage as a mom of three and clawed back both her confidence and sense of self. But we also talk about the struggles of juggling tour life with Lachie and her three children and how she came to the decision to retire before finally turning to her thoughts for the future.

Dana now lives in Brisbane and is settling into life with her husband Lachie and their three children. While she's newly retired from the Australian Ballet, Dana made a surprise appearance with the company in their Brisbane season of “Swan Lake.” You may catch her here and there as she continues to guest with the company. For Australian Ballet tickets and show times, head to their website, australianballet.com.au, or you can find them on Instagram at @ausballet. And to follow all of Dana’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @danastephensen.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Lana Jones' journey in ballet seems like the dream run for many aspiring youngsters. As a teenager, she won the silver medal at the international ballet competition, the Genée Awards in London, was accepted into the Australian Ballet School, graduated dux and was accepted straight into the Australian Ballet Company. From there, the dream continued. She rose through the ranks, won the Telstra Ballet Dancer of the Year Award, married a fellow dancer and was promoted to Principal.

Known for her incredible stage presence and exquisite technique, she has danced almost every role from Odette-Odile in Swan Lake to Aurora in David McAllister's Sleeping Beauty. In this beautifully honest interview, Lana talks about her life in ballet, but she talks about so much more. She opens up about her journey to becoming a mum, while still a principal dancer, the challenges of returning to the stage after the birth of her son, her decision to retire, and now her incredible journey to finding a new career as a midwife.

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Li Cunxin, artistic director of the Queensland Ballet, joins us today on Talking Pointes. Most of you will know Li from his early life. He is Mao's Last Dancer. Li was born into complete poverty in rural China, where he was plucked from obscurity to join the Beijing Dance Academy. He was put through years of brutal training, up to 16 hours a day, to become a dancer. However, his life was meant to be one of twists and turns. He was chosen to undergo an exchange to the United States to dance with the Houston Ballet and while he was there he fell in love and married an American dancer. The resulting standoff between the USA and China made Li a global name, and with it, a ballet superstar. But with that success also came pain. In this wonderfully personal and at times emotional interview, Li shares stories from his early life, and the trauma of being banned from China, but he also shares the highs, reuniting with his parents, finding enduring love and to learning Auslan for his eldest daughter, Sophie.

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we’re speaking with the quite incredible Evie Ferris. Evie was born in Cairns in far north Queensland, and she's a proud Taribelang and Djabugay woman. Growing up, Evie danced alongside her sister, a talent so bright that by the age of 12, her family, including two of her five siblings were moving south to Melbourne. She joined the Australian Ballet School, and on graduation was accepted straight into the company. She's only the second Indigenous Australian to ever join the Australian Ballet. But this isn't the end of Evie's glorious story. In this wondrous interview, Evie described her life in dance, about finding her voice and about the pride but also the pressure that comes with being an Indigenous dancer. We also talk about the moment she met “Blue Wiggle” Anthony Field in a Sydney Opera House Green Room, and how she went on to become the first Indigenous Australian to become both a ballerina and a member of the Wiggles.

Evie continues to split her time touring and dancing with both the Australian Ballet and The Wiggles. For Australian Ballet Performances tickets and times, head to australianballet.com.au, or you'll find them on Instagram #AusBallet. For The Wiggle shows and tour dates, head to the wiggles.com, or find them on Instagram @thewiggles. And to follow all of Evie's adventures, find her on Instagram @evieferris. Evie and I recorded our conversation remotely, with Evie dialing in from Melbourne on the land of the Kulin people. Talking Pointes is recorded and produced on Awabakal and Gadigal lands, to the owners of all these lands we pay our greatest respects. Talking Pointes is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. And if you like us, please leave a five star review. Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars Energetiks is offering Talking Pointes listeners a 20% discount [available until the end of March 2024]. Listen for the code in the episode. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY. @energetiks @energetiksusa

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

The incredible Frances Rings, Bangarra's Associate Artistic Director, joins us on this episode of Talking Pointes. A descendant of the Kokatha people, Frances was born in Adelaide and spent her childhood traveling, dancing, and living all around Australia while her father worked on the railways. However, it was a teacher at her boarding school in Queensland that spotted her talent, and encouraged her to audition for NAISDA, the National Aboriginal and Islander Skills Development Association.

And so at 18 years of age, Frances boarded a Greyhound bus and traveled the 12 hours to Sydney. In this beautifully raw and personal interview, Frances talks about her journey into dance, her incredible career with Bangarra, and finding confidence in her own body. But Frances talks about more than that. Her onstage connection with the late Russell Page, becoming a mum, and the pressure but also the importance of not only being a female leader, but a First Nations female leader in dance in Australia.

Listen here or find us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify.

For our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners, this episode of Talking Pointes contains the names of people who have passed. Please pause now, if you'd prefer not to hear their names. The Page family have given Bangarra Dance Theatre permission to use their names for the purpose of this interview. And just a trigger warning for this episode, we discuss issues around suicide, so if you'd prefer not to listen or read, please press pause or stop reading now. 

Your host and producer is Claudia Lawson, additional production by Penelope Ford, with editing and sound production by Martin Peralta. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we are speaking with the divine Brooke Casson. Brooke Lockett, as she was known throughout her career, grew up in Ballarat and had a dream run to the stage. She was accepted into the Australian Ballet School by the age of 14, and then straight into the company on graduation. In this beautiful and brave interview, Brooke speaks about her career at the Australian Ballet. We speak about promotions, about being the face of the company, the perception of rank and about hard conversations, but we also talk about so much more about new careers, about meeting her husband, becoming a mom. 

Brooke continues to direct and teach at her Studio in Rose Bay in Sydney. For class times, and to sign up, head to studio696.com.au or @Studio696x on Instagram. And to continue to follow all of Brooke's wonderful adventures, you can find her on Instagram at @brookecassen.

Brooke and I recorded our conversation on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

For our bonus episode this season, we’re catching up with the Australian Ballet’s Artistic Director David Hallberg. Last season, David and I spoke about his life growing up in South Dakota, being bullied, training at the Paris Opera, becoming principal at American Ballet Theatre, and being the first American to be invited to dance with the Bolshoi Ballet in Russia. We talked about climbing back from his epic injury, his head space at that time, before taking over the Artistic Directorship of the Australian Ballet right in the middle of Covid. A year later we talk about what it's been like to be artistic director now that theatres are open and audiences are back, about what kind of as dancers he selects for the company, how he decides who will be promoted, the Australian Ballet's 60th anniversary, and life in Australia.

If you’d like to read more about David’s life, find our full conversation in the show notes, or you can read his autobiography called A Body of Work: Dancing to the Edge and Back. For Australian Ballet updates you can find them on Instagram at @ausballet and to continue to follow David’s adventures, you’ll find him on Instagram at @davidhallbergofficial

David and I recorded remotely, with David dialling in from Melbourne, the land of the Kulin people, with recording and production on the land of the Awabakal and Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, to all of whom to which we pay our greatest respects.

This is the final episode for Season 2 of Talking Pointes. We can not thank our guests enough for sharing their stories, their lives, and their vulnerabilities. To our sponsors, Bloch, Fjord Review, and Energetiks, thank you for all of your support, discount codes are available in the episodes, or see my Instragram for details at @byclaudialawson. To our beautiful audience, thank you. A fun and exciting Season 3 of Talking Pointes will be back next year, in the meantime please feel free to get in contact with suggestions or guests for next year.

We’re delighted that David Hallberg’s episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian Made brand that specialise in creating world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. See their entire range online at energetiks.com.au, and for all Talking Pointes listeners there’s a 20% discount on all Energetiks products—listen in for the code!

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the Artistic Director of the Tanya Pearson Academy, Lucinda Dunn. Lucinda started her life in dance destined for London’s West End - where her Mum had been a performer, but a chance meeting with a ballet teacher named Tanya Pearson saw a change of direction, and at 15 she flew to Tokyo to compete in the Prix de Lausanne - and Lucinda’s life changed. In our conversation Lucinda shares her life story - how she joined the Royal Ballet School, broke her back, before being offered a contract with the Australian Ballet  – a partnership which lasted nearly 23 years and saw Lucinda become their longest serving ballerina. Now a Mum to two girls and Artistic Director of Tanya Pearson Academy, Lucinda speaks about the juggles of a 20 plus year career in dance, and what she believes young students need to make it in the world of ballet.

Lucinda continues to work and develop rising stars at the Artistic Director of the Tanya Pearson Academy, while also working with and training the dancers of the Australian Ballet and other performers arriving in Sydney to perform. To continue to follow all of Lucinda’s adventures, you can follow the Tanya Pearson Academy on Insta at @Tanya_Pearson_Academy or Lucinda’s personal account at @lucinda_dunn_

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

This week we head to Boston, where I'm speaking with Boston Ballet's legendary principal dancer, John Lam. John has the most incredible story: His Vietnamese parents were refugees who settled in the US and John, together with his brother and sister grew up in relative poverty in California. Traditional family values meant education was key in John's family, but he accidentally found dance as a young boy when his daycare offered it as an extra activity. And from there, the love affair began. John went on to train at Canada's National Ballet School, and on graduation was offered a position at the Boston Ballet. In this wondrous and beautiful conversation, John talks about the joys of dance, about finding his sexuality and the moment he came out to his parents. But we also talk about more about navigating race and racism in ballet, about meeting his husband, becoming a dad to their two boys, and John's hopes that his parents will one day see him dance.

Trigger Warning

This episode discusses ideas around suicide. For help for depression and anxiety, turn to Beyond Blue at beyondblue.org.au

Talking Points is produced on the lands of the Gadigal and the Wanegal peoples to whom we pay our greatest respects. Talking Points is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. If you like us, please leave a five-star review. On the next episode of Talking Points, you'll hear from Dana Stephenson.

Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Daniel Riley is the newly appointed artistic director of Australian Dance Theatre. Daniel is a proud Wiradjuri man of Western New South Wales. He grew up around Canberra, inspired by the Tap Dogs, learning contemporary dance, ballet, and tap. But it was a chance encounter with ADTs founder, Elizabeth Cameron Dalman, which changed the direction of Daniel's life to one of pursuing dance as a career. He ultimately headed north to study dance at Queensland University of Technology and following graduation and various adventures building his craft around the globe, Daniel joined Bangarra Dance Theatre, where he spent the next 12 years performing, choreographing, and honing his creative skills. In this incredibly open interview, Daniel talks about his childhood in dance, about being bullied, the impact of First Nations' dances, and how he's gearing up to take the helm of the Australian Dance Theatre in 2022.

Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, additional production by Penelope Ford, with editing and sound production by Martin Peralta. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

After the success of Season 1, Talking Pointes is back for another season, another 10 beautiful conversations about a life in dance —I’m your host Claudia Lawson.

On Season 2 I speak with the most incredible guests—from Sydney Dance Company's Rafael Bonachela, the Australian Ballet’s Amy Harris and Dana Stephensen, Bangarra’s Deborah Brown, the Royal Ballet’s Steven McRae and Strictly Ballroom’s Paul Mercurio. There are life highs, career lows, and we chat through everything from bullying and sexuality, to eating disorders, post partum depression and navigating retirement.

Season 2 of Talking Pointes launches Tuesday 30 August on Apple Podcast, Spotify and Google Play. Please subscribe or follow to be notified when episodes are released, and if you enjoy, please leave us a 5 star review.

@fjordreview

@byclaudialawson

www.fjordreview.com/listen

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

In today's episode we speak with superstar Doctor Brandi Cole. You may have seen Dr Brandi on your screens as she worked to keep the Matilda's on the field during the Women's World Cup in 2023, and then at the Paris Olympics. Doctor Brandi is a Sports & Exercise Physician, working with athletes of all types as an expert in the field. But she is more than that, before becoming a doctor, Brandi was a Physiotherapist, and an athlete in her own right—captaining the Australian Women’s Oztag team, as well as playing touch and hockey for NSW, and was also an Australian and World gold medalist in beach sprint relay in Surf Life Saving. In this most fascinating episode, we first explore Brandi's early life, what makes her tick, and how she juggles her roles as a doctor and mum. But then we dive into her work with aesthetic athletes, dancers and gymnasts, what improves returning from injury, and the difficulties that exist with body image and refueling.

Since we spoke to Brandi, she has travelled to Paris Olympics, to continue to work with the  Matilda's, all while running her Sports & Exercise Practice Shire Sport Medicine in Cronulla Sydney. To follow her journey, you can find her @doctor_brandi n Insta, or of course book appointments via at her website shiresportsmedicine.com.au

Brandi and I recorded on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora nation, with production on the lands of the Awabakal and Gadigal peoples, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the divine Dana Stephensen. Dana grew up in Brisbane learning tap, jazz and singing, and never dreamed of being a ballerina. But ballet had a way of finding her. And strangely enough, it was a rejection letter from the Australian Ballet School and the disappointment that followed that awakened her passion and changed the trajectory of her life. In this beautifully courageous and candid interview, Dana speaks about her career with the Australian Ballet, managing her thyroid condition and the affect that had on her body image, and being promoted to senior artist after becoming a mum. But more than that, Dana opens up about the birth of her twin girls, navigating the loneliness of motherhood in a pandemic, the pressures of parenting with a public figure, and wondrously re-emerging and returning to the stage.

Dana continues to perform as a senior artist with the Australian Ballet, all the while juggling life with her son Jasper, her fiancé Lachlan Gillespie, and their twin girls Lulu and Lottie. To continue to follow all of Dana’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @dana_stephensen

For support for peri and postpartum depression in Australia, you can find support through the Gidget foundation or PANDA’s support line, their details are in the show notes, or for further aboard, please contact your local services.

Dana and I recorded remotely, with Dana dialling in from Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to which we pay our greatest respects.

 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I’m speaking with Beau Dean Riley Smith. Beau was born on Wiradjuri Country in Dubbo, Western NSW. But as a little kid the family moved to Culburra on the NSW South Coast where Beau spent his childhood surrounded by siblings, love and chaos while growing up at the beach. Beau didn’t learn to dance as a kid, instead he studied drama in high school, before being accepted into the performance program at WAPPA—the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts in Perth. It was a transformative year in which Beau’s world exploded, and led to Beau auditioning for drama programs across the country, including NIDA—but Beau didn’t get in, and so, in a surprise move, and with no dance experience, Beau auditioned for NAISDA—and was accepted. In this extraordinary conversation, Beau reveals his journey to joining Bangarra, his struggles with body image and weight, and his difficulties accepting the Helpmann Award for Best Male Dancer which coincided with the death of his sister. We also talk about the gravity of performing on Country, the pride and pressure that comes with that, and, in an unexpected announcement, Beau reveals that after nearly a decade with Bangarra he plans to leave the Company and reveals who he’s signed with next.

Beau continues to perform with Bangarra, but after more than a decade will leave the Company at the end of this year to join the Sydney Theatre Company. For Bangarra tour dates and to see Beau’s final performances head to bangarra.com.au, and for Sydney Theatre Company tickets it's sydneytheatre.com.au. And to continue to follow all of Beau’s adventures, you’ll find him on Insta at @beaudrsmith.

Beau and I met and recorded in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

We’re delighted that Beau Dean Riley Smith’s episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian Made brand that specialise in creating world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. See their entire range online at energetiks.com.au, and for all Talking Pointes listeners there’s a 20% discount on all Energetiks products—listen in for the code!

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we’re speaking with the quite incredible Evie Ferris. Evie was born in Cairns in far north Queensland, and she's a proud Taribelang and Djabugay woman. Growing up, Evie danced alongside her sister, a talent so bright that by the age of 12, her family, including two of her five siblings were moving south to Melbourne. She joined the Australian Ballet School, and on graduation was accepted straight into the company. She's only the second Indigenous Australian to ever join the Australian Ballet. But this isn't the end of Evie's glorious story. In this wondrous interview, Evie described her life in dance, about finding her voice and about the pride but also the pressure that comes with being an Indigenous dancer. We also talk about the moment she met “Blue Wiggle” Anthony Field in a Sydney Opera House Green Room, and how she went on to become the first Indigenous Australian to become both a ballerina and a member of the Wiggles.

Evie continues to split her time touring and dancing with both the Australian Ballet and The Wiggles. For Australian Ballet Performances tickets and times, head to australianballet.com.au, or you'll find them on Instagram #AusBallet. For The Wiggle shows and tour dates, head to the wiggles.com, or find them on Instagram @thewiggles. And to follow all of Evie's adventures, find her on Instagram @evieferris. Evie and I recorded our conversation remotely, with Evie dialing in from Melbourne on the land of the Kulin people. Talking Pointes is recorded and produced on Awabakal and Gadigal lands, to the owners of all these lands we pay our greatest respects. Talking Pointes is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. And if you like us, please leave a five star review. Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Daniel Riley is the newly appointed artistic director of Australian Dance Theatre. Daniel is a proud Wiradjuri man of Western New South Wales. He grew up around Canberra, inspired by the Tap Dogs, learning contemporary dance, ballet, and tap. But it was a chance encounter with ADTs founder, Elizabeth Cameron Dalman, which changed the direction of Daniel's life to one of pursuing dance as a career. He ultimately headed north to study dance at Queensland University of Technology and following graduation and various adventures building his craft around the globe, Daniel joined Bangarra Dance Theatre, where he spent the next 12 years performing, choreographing, and honing his creative skills. In this incredibly open interview, Daniel talks about his childhood in dance, about being bullied, the impact of First Nations' dances, and how he's gearing up to take the helm of the Australian Dance Theatre in 2022.

Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, additional production by Penelope Ford, with editing and sound production by Martin Peralta. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I have the immense privilege of speaking with Bangarra Dance Theatre’s James Boyd. James is a proud Aboriginal man with connections to the Kunja and Muruwari people of southwest Queensland. Born on Wiradjuri country in Orange, as a little boy, James wasn't quick to use his words, and had delayed speech. James's mum and dad then began to notice other things—James kept getting bruises. At just five years of age, James was diagnosed with Leukemia. In this most incredible episode, James shares his journey through cancer, the lows of hospital life, and also the highs when James was introduced to movement and music therapy as part of his recovery. And with that, he was introduced to dance. James then shares how he successfully auditioned for the Hunter School of the Performing Arts, and then how his world opened up at NAISDA Dance College. James then shares how, with his Leukemia is in remission, what it was like to receive a call from Frances Rings, the artistic director of Bangarra Dance Theatre. And then his decision to move to Sydney, which not only changed the course of his love life, but also defined his career.

James continues to dance with Bangarra Dance Theatre, sharing the joy of dance across Australia and the world. For Bangarra performance times and tickets, head to bangarra.com.au and to follow all of James's adventures, you can find him on Instagram @jamesrossboyd.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with Steven McRae, Principal Dancer with the Royal Ballet, London. Steven grew up in Western Sydney, in a suburb called Plumpton, 45kms West of Sydney. His Dad was a drag car racer, and no one in the family had ever learnt to dance. But somehow, dance found Steven, And at the age of 7, he asked his Mum and Dad if he could start dance lessons and he enrolled in a local studio around the corner from home. It was a life changing decision. By 17, he had not only won the Genée and the Prix de Lausanne, he was standing alone in London having been accepted into the Royal Ballet School—his heartbroken mother on the plane home. In this beautifully candid conversation, Steven talks about his journey to Principal at the Royal Ballet by the age of 23— and that, it’s not all as it seems; he speaks about early bullying, crippling home sickness, not always fitting in, and devastating injuries.

But Steven speaks of more than that; he talks about starting his own family with his wife Elizabeth Harrod—also a dancer at the Royal Ballet, his post retirement plans, and the moment he snapped his Achilles tendon live on stage in front of 2,500 people, and how he climbed back from the impossible, to perform with the Royal Ballet once again.

Steven continues to perform as a Principal Artist with the Royal Ballet in London, all the while juggling life with his wife Elizabeth and their 3 children Audrey, Frederick and Rupert. If you’re in London, the Royal Ballet is back on stage, for show times and tickets head to roh.org.uk, and to follow all of Steven’s adventures, you can follow him @StevenMcRae_

Steven and I recorded our conversation remotely, with Steven dialling in from London, while the podcast recorded on the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I have the privilege of speaking with the divine Juliet Doherty. Juliet was born in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is slightly more Breaking Bad than “Swan Lake,” but Juliet's grandparents owned a ballet studio which passed to Juliet's mother, and so the artistic genes ran deep. Juliet was renowned worldwide from an early age, competing in competitions around the world, winning the Youth America Grand Prix twice, and appearing in the cult movie First Position. By 16, Juliet was dancing with the San Francisco Ballet, where after training as an apprentice, she accepted a contract into the company, but company life wasn't for Juliet. In this most beautiful conversation, Juliet talks about her road to the stage, her diverse training, and her decision to branch out and carve her own artistic life away from the ballet. We discuss her reasons for leaving the San Francisco Ballet, diving into the wild of freelance work, the joys and the burdens of social media, and what continues to drive her passion as a freelance dancer and actress.

Juliet continues to perform and act around the globe, while continuing as an MDM Dance Muse. Juliet has just finished a tour with Ballet International Gala in Brisbane. To continue to follow all of Juliet's wonderful adventures, you can find her on Instagram @julietdoherty.

Follow @talkingpointespodcast and never miss an episode!

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Many of you will know Emma Watkins as the supremely talented Emma Wiggle. Emma grew up like many aspiring dancers, dreaming of becoming a ballerina, but her dreams took an unexpected change after sustaining an injury as a teenager. Her dreams changed direction and she embarked on a different path, one that led her to university, film editing, and to ultimately becoming the iconic Yellow Wiggle. In this wonderfully generous and personal interview, Emma talks about her years of ballet training in Sydney, how she auditioned to join the Wiggles first as a dancer, and then being selected to become a Wiggle. But Emma also shares so much more, how she coped with endometriosis while under intense pressure to be pregnant, the PhD she’s studying, her passion for every child to learn Auslan and what it was like to become the first female Wiggle. Hosted by Claudia Lawson.

To continue to follow Emma's adventures, you can find her on Instagram at either @Emma_Wiggle or @EmmaWatkinsOfficial

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the Artistic Director of the Tanya Pearson Academy, Lucinda Dunn. Lucinda started her life in dance destined for London’s West End - where her Mum had been a performer, but a chance meeting with a ballet teacher named Tanya Pearson saw a change of direction, and at 15 she flew to Tokyo to compete in the Prix de Lausanne - and Lucinda’s life changed. In our conversation Lucinda shares her life story - how she joined the Royal Ballet School, broke her back, before being offered a contract with the Australian Ballet  – a partnership which lasted nearly 23 years and saw Lucinda become their longest serving ballerina. Now a Mum to two girls and Artistic Director of Tanya Pearson Academy, Lucinda speaks about the juggles of a 20 plus year career in dance, and what she believes young students need to make it in the world of ballet.

Lucinda continues to work and develop rising stars at the Artistic Director of the Tanya Pearson Academy, while also working with and training the dancers of the Australian Ballet and other performers arriving in Sydney to perform. To continue to follow all of Lucinda’s adventures, you can follow the Tanya Pearson Academy on Insta at @Tanya_Pearson_Academy or Lucinda’s personal account at @lucinda_dunn_

We're delighted that Lucinda Dunn's episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian Made brand that specialise in creating world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. See their entire range online at energetiks.com.au, and for all Talking Pointes listeners there's a 20% discount on all Energetiks products - listen in for the code!

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the divine Dana Stephensen. Dana grew up in Brisbane learning tap, jazz and singing, and never dreamed of being a ballerina. But ballet had a way of finding her. And strangely enough, it was a rejection letter from the Australian Ballet School and the disappointment that followed that awakened her passion and changed the trajectory of her life. In this beautifully courageous and candid interview, Dana speaks about her career with the Australian Ballet, managing her thyroid condition and the affect that had on her body image, and being promoted to senior artist after becoming a mum. But more than that, Dana opens up about the birth of her twin girls, navigating the loneliness of motherhood in a pandemic, the pressures of parenting with a public figure, and wondrously re-emerging and returning to the stage.

Dana continues to perform as a senior artist with the Australian Ballet, all the while juggling life with her son Jasper, her fiancé Lachlan Gillespie, and their twin girls Lulu and Lottie. To continue to follow all of Dana’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @dana_stephensen

For support for peri and postpartum depression in Australia, you can find support through the Gidget foundation or PANDA’s support line, their details are in the show notes, or for further aboard, please contact your local services.

Dana and I recorded remotely, with Dana dialling in from Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to which we pay our greatest respects.

 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Many of you will know Emma Watkins as the supremely talented Emma Wiggle. Emma grew up like many aspiring dancers, dreaming of becoming a ballerina, but her dreams took an unexpected change after sustaining an injury as a teenager. Her dreams changed direction and she embarked on a different path, one that led her to university, film editing, and to ultimately becoming the iconic Yellow Wiggle. In this wonderfully generous and personal interview, Emma talks about her years of ballet training in Sydney, how she auditioned to join the Wiggles first as a dancer, and then being selected to become a Wiggle. But Emma also shares so much more, how she coped with endometriosis while under intense pressure to be pregnant, the PhD she’s studying, her passion for every child to learn Auslan and what it was like to become the first female Wiggle.

To continue to follow Emma's adventures, you can find her on Instagram at either @Emma_Wiggle or @EmmaWatkinsOfficial

Our episode sponsor is Eco Dancers - they create ethical and sustainable dance wear to help reduce plastic in the dance industry, they're offering all Talking Pointes listeners a 10% discount, just enter 'turtles' at the checkout. www.ecodancers.com

Talking Pointes is produced by www.fjordreview.com

Host @byclaudialawson

 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

30 years ago this year, a small independent film, by a first time director, and an unknown cast, hit our screens. That film was Strictly Ballroom. And so, for our final episode of Season 2 of Talking Pointes, I’m speaking with the legendary Paul Mercurio. Paul was born in Swan Hill in regional Victoria and started dancing after he saw his elder sister in a local dance class. With dad off the scene early, the family moved to Perth where Paul continued to train at the John Curtin Senior High School as it was known then, before, at 18, being accepted in the Australian Ballet School in Melbourne. But in a rebel move, he joined Sydney Dance Company before graduating, it was the golden era of Graeme Murphy’s directorship. It was a position he held for ten years, as a principal dancer, muse and choreographer. During his later years Sydney Dance Company, Paul received a call from an unknown director called Baz Lurhmann who asked him to help choreograph on a dance film. It was a call that changed his life. In this wonderfully honest interview, Paul talks about his early years in dance, his “angry man” years as he calls them—where he wrote poetry, smoked weed, and rode motorbikes. We also talk about how Strictly Ballroom came to be, the behind the scene, and how the film changed his life. Finally we talk new careers, raising a family, and his plans for making a more inclusive community in his local area.

Paul and I recorded remotely, with Paul dialling in from Melbourne on the land of the Kulin people. Paul’s episode was produced in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

We’re delighted that Paul Mercurio’s episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian Made brand that specialise in creating world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. See their entire range online at energetiks.com.au, and for all Talking Pointes listeners there’s a 20% discount on all Energetiks products—listen in for the code!

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Marie Walton Mahon has taught and trained literally thousands of dancers here in Australia and around the globe. A dance prodigy in her own right, she was selected as a teenager to train in France with the great Rosella Hightower, and then danced professionally in Marseille, under the artistic directorship of the late, great, Roland Petit. However, her career was unexpectedly cut short and she returned home to Australia. With no career to fall back on she started a tiny dance school with just six students in Newcastle, Australia. Marie went on to create the National College of Dance, training students to the highest level, to enter ballet and contemporary dance schools and companies worldwide. In this beautifully candid interview, Marie talks about her own career, her journey to becoming a teacher, her family, and how she co-founded and grew the global phenomenon that is Progressing Ballet Technique.

This episode is sponsored by @ecodancers. 

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I’m speaking with the divine Jenna Roberts. Jenna grew up in Newcastle and started dancing only because a local ballet studio set up shop on the same street as her family home.  But as fortune would have it, that local studio happened to be the Marie Walton Mahon Dance Academy, as it was known back then. And so Jenna, and little sister Callie, started dancing. For any outsider, it was clear the Robert’s sisters were born to dance—with high arches and long, lean legs, genetics almost pre-determined their careers. By the time Jenna was a teen, she was winning scholarships and accolades before, at 16, she was accepted into the Royal Ballet School in London.

In this courageous and extraordinary conversation, Jenna reveals it’s not always as it seems—we talk about tough years at Royal Ballet School, about crippling home sickness, and then rising to become a principal artist with the Royal Birmingham Ballet. But more than that, Jenna also speaks about the pressures that continue to exist on body image in the dance world—and with that her own experience taking laxatives, the passing of her mum, and her decision to retire at the peak of her career on her own terms. Finally Jenna speaks about her years of infertility and IVF, before making a wonderful and unexpected life decision with her husband, Joe.

Jenna and her husband Joe Caley have just relocated from London, and are now based in Melbourne—where Joe has joined the Australian Ballet as their newest principal artist. Jenna continues to coach and teach the rising starts of dance, all while running her own Pilates studio tailored for dancers and athletes. To continue follow all of Jenna’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram at @Jenna_Caley_Pilates

Jenna and I recorded remotely, with Jenna dialling in from Melbourne on the land of the Kulin people. Jenna’s episode was produced in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

This week we head to Boston, where I'm speaking with Boston Ballet's legendary principal dancer, John Lam. John has the most incredible story: His Vietnamese parents were refugees who settled in the US and John, together with his brother and sister grew up in relative poverty in California. Traditional family values meant education was key in John's family, but he accidentally found dance as a young boy when his daycare offered it as an extra activity. And from there, the love affair began. John went on to train at Canada's National Ballet School, and on graduation was offered a position at the Boston Ballet. In this wondrous and beautiful conversation, John talks about the joys of dance, about finding his sexuality and the moment he came out to his parents. But we also talk about more about navigating race and racism in ballet, about meeting his husband, becoming a dad to their two boys, and John's hopes that his parents will one day see him dance.

Trigger Warning

This episode discusses ideas around suicide. For help for depression and anxiety, turn to Beyond Blue at beyondblue.org.au

Talking Points is produced on the lands of the Gadigal and the Wanegal peoples to whom we pay our greatest respects. Talking Points is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. If you like us, please leave a five-star review. On the next episode of Talking Points, you'll hear from Dana Stephenson.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we’re speaking with the phenomenal Shaun Parker. Shaun’s path to artistic director and choreographer of an internationally renowned contemporary dance company is totally unexpected. Shaun grew up on a farm in Mildura in regional Victoria, but he had a double life in dance, theatre and singing. After finishing high school, Shaun went on to study science at Monash University in Melbourne until a sliding doors moment— Shaun saw a dance rehearsal in a university lecture room, and the rest is history. In this wonderful interview, Shaun talks about dropping out of uni, returning to the studio to train in dance, and about dancing professionally with the likes of Meryl Tankard, Australian Dance Theater and Chunkymove. But Shaun also speaks about a lot more; of his marriage, later identifying as bisexual, about toxic masculinity, and finally about finding his purpose in starting the internationally acclaimed Shaun Parker Company.  

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars Energetiks is offering Talking Pointes listeners a 20% discount [available until the end of March 2024]. Listen for the code in the episode. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY.

Team:

Claudia Lawson, host @byclaudialawson

Martin Peralta, sound designer @outputmedia

Penelope Ford, producer @fjordreview

Clint Topic, additional sound production @sawtoothstudios
 

Talking Pointes was recorded on traditional lands of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, Awabakal and Worimi. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is a ballet and contemporary dance podcast that interviews some of the most extraordinary and famous dancers, artistic directors and choreographers. In our 2021 season we’re bringing together ten beautiful interviews to explore not just the inspiration and careers of our guests, but all the other stuff that surrounds dance - inspiration, regrets, bullying, body image, sexuality, retirement, lifelong friendships and even how to start a new career when the curtains finally close.

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the divine Deborah Brown. Deborah is a descendant of the Wakaid Clan of Badu Island, the Meriam people of Murray Island, and also has Scottish heritage. Deborah grew up in Brisbane, learning jazz, ballet and tap at her local dance school, while also dancing around the family home learning cultural dance. It was an eye opener to a world she never dreamt could be her career. But after finishing school, Deborah moved to Sydney, and while working as an usher at the Lyric Theatre she auditioned for Bangarra Dance Theatre and was accepted. It was a love affair that would last 15 years. Deborah was not only a dancer in the company, but as a principal muse, performing in 16 original works that travelled to 14 countries across the globe. She also turned her hand to choreography, creating works for the company and mentoring young dancers.

In this beautiful conversation, Deborah talks about her early life growing up in Brisbane, auditioning for Bangarra, the first time she met Steven Page, and the 15 years she spent with the Company. But Deborah talks about more than that, about the importance of culture, the pressure and obligations that come with that, and how she ultimately made the decision to find life after Bangarra as both a choreographer and film director.

Deborah continues to work with companies and dancers choreographing and directing projects all over Australia. She most recently worked with Bangarra to bring Terrain back to the Sydney Opera House stage 10 years after it debuted. To work with Deborah or to follow all of her adventures, you can find her on Instagram @abrowndeborah

Deborah and I recorded remotely, with Deborah dialing in from Queensland on the land of the Gimuy people, to whom we pay our greatest respects. With production on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation.

 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

It’s likely that every single one of our listeners knows the name Cooper Nielson. He briefly broke Jody Sawyer's heart in the cult ballet movie Center Stage, and yet today, we speak with the man who played that role, Ethan Stiefel, who is far more interesting than the notorious Cooper Nielson. 

Ethan was born in Pennsylvania, and his father was a prison warden, and like many men before him, he was introduced to ballet by watching his sister's dance class. But by age 15, he had been accepted into the School of American Ballet where he trained with the likes of Rudolph Nureyev and Mikhail Baryshnikov. Upon graduation, he was accepted into the New York City Ballet, but the adventures didn't end there.

In this wondrous conversation, Ethan talk so candidly about his life and career. We talk about his early years rising through the ranks at the New York City Ballet before defecting across the Lincoln Center Plaza to join American Ballet Theater as a principal, and Ethan and I cover so much more. We discuss what it's like for American men to grow up dancing in the US, how he became artistic director of the Royal New Zealand Ballet, managing a long distance relationship with his now wife, Gillian Murphy, and taking some time off for himself. Finally, we talk about playing Cooper Nielson and his new venture as the artistic director of the American Repertory Ballet.

Ethan continues to live with his wife, Gillian Murphy, and their son in New Jersey in the US, while curating the new era of the American Repertory Ballet. For performance times and tickets, head to their website, arballet.org, or you can find them on Instagram, @arballet. While Ethan doesn't have Instagram, you can follow many of his adventures through his wife's Instagram. Gillian Murphy, also a principal dancer at ABT, @gillianemurphy. Ethan and I recorded our conversation remotely with Ethan dialing in from New Jersey on the East Coast of the US.

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars Energetiks is offering Talking Pointes listeners a 20% discount [available until the end of March 2024]. Listen for the code in the episode. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY. @energetiks @energetiksusa

Talking Points is produced on the lands of the Gadigal and the Wanegal peoples to whom we pay our greatest respects. Talking Points is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. If you like us, please leave a five-star review. On the next episode of Talking Points, you'll hear from Evie Ferris.

Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

On our first episode of season three, I'm speaking with the former principal dancer of the Australian Ballet, the much loved Adam Bull. Adam grew up in outer Melbourne and by a stroke of luck, his primary school teacher at his local school suggested he try dance. He did, and it became a love affair that has lasted a lifetime. By the time he was a teenager, he was training under Brian Nolan at Dance World 3 0 1 before joining the Australian Ballet School and then being accepted straight into the Australian Ballet. In this wonderful interview recorded just five days before Adam's final performance in Melbourne. Adam reflects on his career, he speaks of his early life growing up, dancing, joining the company, and of course making principal. But we also talk about more about love, about his onstage relationship with Amber Scott, his thoughts on marriage and what it feels like to dance for the national company for 22 years. 

Talking Pointes was recorded on traditional lands of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, Awabakal and Worimi. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today, I'm speaking with my lifelong friend, Adam Blanch. Adam's story has often been compared with Billy Elliot. He grew up in a tiny town in regional Australia called Weston. It's about an hours drive west of Newcastle. In this tiny town everyone can always remember that Adam was dancing. And so, at the age of six, Adam's mum and dad enrolled him in the local ballet class, held in a local hall. He was the only boy. And so, his life in dance began. In this very candid and courageous interview, Adam opens up about his childhood, the bullying he suffered, his sexuality, but also the joys and the adventures he's had along the way to ultimately create the career and the life of his dreams. 

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we’re speaking with the phenomenal Shaun Parker. Shaun’s path to artistic director and choreographer of an internationally renowned contemporary dance company is totally unexpected. Shaun grew up on a farm in Mildura in regional Victoria, but he had a double life in dance, theatre and singing. After finishing high school, Shaun went on to study science at Monash University in Melbourne until a sliding doors moment— Shaun saw a dance rehearsal in a university lecture room, and the rest is history. In this wonderful interview, Shaun talks about dropping out of uni, returning to the studio to train in dance, and about dancing professionally with the likes of Meryl Tankard, Australian Dance Theater and Chunkymove. But Shaun also speaks about a lot more; of his marriage, later identifying as bisexual, about toxic masculinity, and finally about finding his purpose in starting the internationally acclaimed Shaun Parker & Company.  

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

30 years ago this year, a small independent film, by a first time director, and an unknown cast, hit our screens. That film was Strictly Ballroom. And so, for our final episode of Season 2 of Talking Pointes, I’m speaking with the legendary Paul Mercurio. Paul was born in Swan Hill in regional Victoria and started dancing after he saw his elder sister in a local dance class. With dad off the scene early, the family moved to Perth where Paul continued to train at the John Curtin Senior High School as it was known then, before, at 18, being accepted in the Australian Ballet School in Melbourne. But in a rebel move, he joined Sydney Dance Company before graduating, it was the golden era of Graeme Murphy’s directorship. It was a position he held for ten years, as a principal dancer, muse and choreographer. During his later years Sydney Dance Company, Paul received a call from an unknown director called Baz Lurhmann who asked him to help choreograph on a dance film. It was a call that changed his life. In this wonderfully honest interview, Paul talks about his early years in dance, his “angry man” years as he calls them—where he wrote poetry, smoked weed, and rode motorbikes. We also talk about how Strictly Ballroom came to be, the behind the scene, and how the film changed his life. Finally we talk new careers, raising a family, and his plans for making a more inclusive community in his local area.

Paul and I recorded remotely, with Paul dialling in from Melbourne on the land of the Kulin people. Paul’s episode was produced in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

For our Season Three bonus episode, we speak again with the divine Dana Stephensen. Dana and I initially spoke about 18 months ago, and in that conversation we covered Dana’s journey into the Australian Ballet, managing her hyperthyroidism and weight gain. We talked about promotions, meeting her now husband Lachie becoming a mom and returning to the stage. This time I speak to the newly retired Dana Stephensen, who after 19 years dancing with the Australian Ballet finally gave a farewell performance at the Royal Opera House in London. In this hugely inspiring episode, we reflect on the depth and the bravery of Dana speaking about postnatal depression after the birth of her twins, how she returned to the stage as a mom of three and clawed back both her confidence and sense of self. But we also talk about the struggles of juggling tour life with Lachie and her three children and how she came to the decision to retire before finally turning to her thoughts for the future.

Dana now lives in Brisbane and is settling into life with her husband Lachie and their three children. While she's newly retired from the Australian Ballet, Dana made a surprise appearance with the company in their Brisbane season of “Swan Lake.” You may catch her here and there as she continues to guest with the company. For Australian Ballet tickets and show times, head to their website, australianballet.com.au, or you can find them on Instagram at @ausballet. And to follow all of Dana’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @danastephensen.

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars Energetiks is offering Talking Pointes listeners a 20% discount [available until the end of March 2024]. Listen for the code in the episode. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY. @energetiks @energetiksusa

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal and the Wanegal peoples to whom we pay our greatest respects. Talking Pointes is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. If you like us, please leave a five-star review.

Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com. 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I have the immense privilege of speaking with Lucia Field. Lucia grew up with her family in Sydney, but with her dad, Anthony, as the original Blue Wiggle. It's not the childhood you might imagine. As the Wiggles became global superstars, Lucia didn't see her dad for nearly nine months a year. Instead, Lucia grew up alongside her mom, her brother, and her sister, dancing and dreaming of becoming a ballerina. And it was not just a dream. Lucia's star was already on the rise. And by 13, she was accepted into the Australian Ballet School. In this exceptionally beautiful and humbling conversation. Lucia talks candidly about her childhood, what it's like to know your dad through the television and the challenges that come with moving away from home so young. Lucia then bravely speaks about body image issues that still exist in ballet schools today, including her own experience of being told to lose weight. And with that, her decision to ultimately walk away from ballet altogether. We talk about the grief that comes from leaving something you love, the unexpected phone call in which she was asked to join The Wiggles, how she deals with social media and managing her mental health, and the joy that comes from getting to know your dad as a young adult.

Lucia continues to work and tour with the Wiggles now wearing the Blue skivvy alongside her dad, but also the likes of Evie Ferris and Zaha Hawkins. For tour dates and tickets, head to the wiggles.com, and to continue to follow all of Lucia's incredible adventures you can find her on Insta @luciawiggle.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Lana Jones' journey in ballet seems like the dream run for many aspiring youngsters. As a teenager, she won the silver medal at the international ballet competition, the Genée Awards in London, was accepted into the Australian Ballet School, graduated dux and was accepted straight into the company. From there, the dream continued. She rose through the ranks, won the Telstra Ballet Dancer of the Year Award, married a fellow dancer and was promoted to Principal.

Known for her incredible stage presence and exquisite technique, she has danced almost every role from Odette Odile in Swan Lake to Aurora in David McAllister's Sleeping Beauty. In this beautifully honest interview, Lana talks about her life in ballet, but she talks about so much more. She opens up about her journey to becoming a mum, while still a principal dancer, the challenges of returning to the stage after the birth of her son, her decision to retire, and now her incredible journey to finding a new career as a midwife.

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

A rejection letter from the Australian Ballet School changed the trajectory of Dana Stephensen's life. This episode revisits Dana's incredible story as she announces her retirement from the Australian Ballet. Hosted by Claudia Lawson

Dana grew up in Brisbane learning tap, jazz and singing, and never dreamed of being a ballerina. But ballet had a way of finding her. And strangely enough, it was a rejection letter from the Australian Ballet School and the disappointment that followed that awakened her passion and changed the trajectory of her life. In this beautifully courageous and candid interview, Dana speaks about her career with the Australian Ballet, managing her thyroid condition and the affect that had on her body image, and being promoted to senior artist after becoming a mum. But more than that, Dana opens up about the birth of her twin girls, navigating the loneliness of motherhood in a pandemic, the pressures of parenting with a public figure, and wondrously re-emerging and returning to the stage.

Dana continues to perform as a senior artist with the Australian Ballet, all the while juggling life with her son Jasper, her fiancé Lachlan Gillespie, and their twin girls Lulu and Lottie. To continue to follow all of Dana’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @dana_stephensen

For support for peri and postpartum depression in Australia, you can find support through the Gidget foundation or PANDA’s support line, their details are in the show notes, or for further aboard, please contact your local services.

Dana and I recorded remotely, with Dana dialling in from Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to which we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney, @sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I’m speaking with Mary Li, ballet mistress and principal répétiteur at the Queensland Ballet. Mary's story to the stage is an unlikely one—one of eight children, Mary grew up in a small town in Central Queensland called Rockhampton. She was the first person in her family to try ballet, but by the age of 16—the day after completing her Solo Seal exam—she flew to London after being accepted into Royal Ballet School. Her star continued to rise, on graduation Mary was accepted into London Festival Ballet, now the English National Ballet—and was made principal within four years. But it was a chance move to Houston Ballet in the United States that saw the course of her life change again—when she crossed paths with another principal dancer, Li Cunxin—they would go on to marry, and dance together all over the globe. In this wonderfully brave conversation, Mary opens up about her career, meeting her husband and learning of his life, and their decision to have children. But Mary also talks about the devastating decision to leave her career after her eldest child was found to be hearing impaired, the grief she suffered knowing her child would never hear music, reuniting with the stage at the Queensland Ballet, and now choosing to learn AUSLAN with her eldest daughter Sophie.

Mary continues to train and teach the principal artists of Queensland Ballet, all the while juggling life with Li and their three grown up children, Sophie, Tom and Bridie. Mary continues to learn AUSLAN, and her book Mary’s Last Dance is available on Audible and in all good bookshops. If you'd like to listen to Li's conversation with me, please scroll down to Episode 5 of Talking Pointes, and we'll also pop the link in the show notes—and finally, to continue to follow all of Mary’s adventures, you'll find her on Instagram.

Mary and I recorded remotely, with Mary dialling in from Brisbane. This episode was produced in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation to whom we pay our greatest respects.

We’re delighted that Mary Li’s episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian Made brand that specialise in creating world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. See their entire range online at energetiks.com.au, and for all Talking Pointes listeners there’s a 20% discount on all Energetiks products—listen in for the code!

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

This episode is sponsored by MDM Dancewear

Today, I'm speaking with The Australian Ballet's resident choreographer, Alice Topp. Alice was born and raised in Bendigo, a small town in regional Victoria. She started dancing at the age of four and was destined for a career as a ballerina. While Alice's career at The Australian Ballet is widely known, what many don't know is that Alice's journey to The Australian Ballet wasn't like most. She didn't train at The Australian Ballet School. Instead, she did a stint at The Royal New Zealand Ballet company. She broke her foot, and then worked in a Melbourne pub to continue her training. Even more incredibly, Alice never imagined she'd be a choreographer.

In this wonderfully candid interview, Alice talks about her journey to becoming only the second female resident choreographer in the 60-year history of the Australian Ballet to now launching Project Animo, a huge creative and choreographic undertaking to bring the royalty of the Australian dance scene back to the stage.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we are speaking with the divine Brooke Casson. Brooke Lockett, as she was known throughout her career, grew up in Ballarat and had a dream run to the stage. She was accepted into the Australian Ballet School by the age of 14, and then straight into the company on graduation. In this beautiful and brave interview, Brooke speaks about her career at the Australian Ballet. We speak about promotions, about being the face of the company, the perception of rank and about hard conversations, but we also talk about so much more about new careers, about meeting her husband, becoming a mom. 

Brooke continues to direct and teach at her Studio in Rose Bay in Sydney. For class times, and to sign up, head to studio696.com.au or @Studio696x on Instagram. And to continue to follow all of Brooke's wonderful adventures, you can find her on Instagram at @brookecassen.

Brooke and I recorded our conversation on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars Energetiks is offering Talking Pointes listeners a 20% discount [available until the end of March 2024]. Listen for the code in the episode. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY. 

Team

Claudia Lawson, host @byclaudialawson

Martin Peralta, sound designer @outputmedia

Penelope Ford, producer @fjordreview

Clint Topic, additional sound production @sawtoothstudios
 

Talking Pointes was recorded on traditional lands of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, Awabakal and Worimi. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

For our bonus episode this season, we’re catching up with the Australian Ballet’s Artistic Director David Hallberg. Last season, David and I spoke about his life growing up in South Dakota, being bullied, training at the Paris Opera, becoming principal at American Ballet Theatre, and being the first American to be invited to dance with the Bolshoi Ballet in Russia. We talked about climbing back from his epic injury, his head space at that time, before taking over the Artistic Directorship of the Australian Ballet right in the middle of Covid. A year later we talk about what it's been like to be artistic director now that theatres are open and audiences are back, about what kind of as dancers he selects for the company, how he decides who will be promoted, the Australian Ballet's 60th anniversary, and life in Australia.

If you’d like to read more about David’s life, find our full conversation in the show notes, or you can read his autobiography called A Body of Work: Dancing to the Edge and Back. For Australian Ballet updates you can find them on Instagram at @ausballet and to continue to follow David’s adventures, you’ll find him on Instagram at @davidhallbergofficial

David and I recorded remotely, with David dialling in from Melbourne, the land of the Kulin people, with recording and production on the land of the Awabakal and Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, to all of whom to which we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I'm speaking with The Australian Ballet's resident choreographer, Alice Topp. Alice was born and raised in Bendigo, a small town in regional Victoria. She started dancing at the age of four and was destined for a career as a ballerina. While Alice's career at The Australian Ballet is widely known, what many don't know is that Alice's journey to The Australian Ballet wasn't like most. She didn't train at The Australian Ballet School. Instead, she did a stint at The Royal New Zealand Ballet company. She broke her foot, and then worked in a Melbourne pub to continue her training. Even more incredibly, Alice never imagined she'd be a choreographer.

In this wonderfully candid interview, Alice talks about her journey to becoming only the second female resident choreographer in the 60-year history of the Australian Ballet to now launching Project Animo, a huge creative and choreographic undertaking to bring the royalty of the Australian dance scene back to the stage. Hosted by Claudia Lawson.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I have the immense privilege of speaking with Riley Lapham. Riley started dancing early in her home town of Wollongong, and by age 14, she had joined the Australian Ballet School. But from here, Riley's journey takes twists and turns. In her graduation year, Riley missed her final performance due to injury. But in a Center Stage-like moment, the then artistic director David McAllister offered her a contract with the company.

In this brave and vulnerable conversation, Riley and I talk about what it's like to join a company while injured, and what it was like to deal with the worldwide shutdown that occurred in 2020 as a junior member of the company. Riley also speaks about a topic she's not yet discussed publicly—her journey with long Covid—what it was like to contract Covid just as she was nominated for Telstra Ballet Dancer of the Year, and then the unexpected journey of not getting better. We talk about the grief and the devastation that followed the acceptance of a slow recovery, her decision to move to France, and the journey back to the stage with the Australian Ballet.

Riley continues to train and work with the Australian Ballet's rehabilitation team, while gaining her strength to make a return to the stage. To continue to follow all of Riley's wonderful adventures, you can find her on Instagram at @rileylapham. Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the Artistic Director of Sydney Dance Company, Rafael  Bonachela. Rafael grew up in the small town of La Garriga near Barcelona in Spain, the eldest of 4 brothers. With no dance school in the town, the young Rafael would instead create dances for himself and his classmates, before at 15, being allowed to take the train to Barcelona to take his first dance class. It was a pivotal moment - both a star and a passion was born. By 17 he was offered a professional contract and was travelling Europe as a contemporary dancer. But rather than continue on that trajectory, Rafael wanted to hone his craft, and decided to return to the studio to train, he moved to London and trained with London Studio Centre. From here, Rafael’s world exploded - with dance, with love, and with creating movement—which now had a name, choreography. In this beautifully intimate and joyful interview, Rafael talks about his early years in Spain, bullying, coming out in London just as AIDS had arrived on the scene, losing hair, finding love, life and choreography and living out his dreams. But more than that, Rafael talks about how he came to accept the position of Artistic Director with Sydney Dance Company, what he looks for in selecting dancers and how he has turned Sydney Dance Company into a powerhouse of contemporary dance in Australia, recognised across the globe.

Rafael continues to lead the Sydney Dance Company. The Company is now back on the stage and touring "Impermanence," the work Rafael created during COVID. For tour dates and to buy tickets, head to sydneydancecompany.com, or you can find Sydney Dance Company on Instagram @sydneydanceco, and to follow all of Rafael’s adventures, you can follow him @rafaelbonachela.

Rafael and I recorded our conversation in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we're speaking with the divine Danielle Rowe. Dani grew up in South Australia, and by 14 she had moved interstate to train [in ballet] under Marie Walton Mann. Within a year of that, she'd been accepted into the Australian Ballet School, and on graduation, she was offered a position with the company, but the accolades didn't stop. Dani rose to principal artist, won the Telstra Ballet Dancer award twice, and represented the Australian Ballet company around the world from London to China. But in a move that defines the superstars trajectory, she wanted more. She left Australia and moved to the US, joining Houston Ballet as a principal artist. Less than a year later, she was offered a contract with a prestigious Netherlands Dance Theater. In this wondrous conversation, Dani and I talk about her career across three continents, how she found choreography, about managing long distance relationships, her want for a family, and ultimately how she became the first female artistic director of Oregon Ballet Theater. 

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. Try them out with a 20% discount site-wide using the code DANIELLE20 at the checkout [available until the end of March 2024]. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY.

Team

Claudia Lawson, host @byclaudialawson

Martin Peralta, sound designer @outputmedia

Penelope Ford, producer @fjordreview

Clint Topic, additional sound production @sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes was recorded on traditional lands of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, Awabakal and Worimi. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I’m speaking with Mary Li, ballet mistress and principal répétiteur at the Queensland Ballet. Mary's story to the stage is an unlikely one—one of eight children, Mary grew up in a small town in Central Queensland called Rockhampton. She was the first person in her family to try ballet, but by the age of 16—the day after completing her Solo Seal exam—she flew to London after being accepted into Royal Ballet School. Her star continued to rise, on graduation Mary was accepted into London Festival Ballet, now the English National Ballet—and was made principal within four years. But it was a chance move to Houston Ballet in the United States that saw the course of her life change again—when she crossed paths with another principal dancer, Li Cunxin—they would go on to marry, and dance together all over the globe. In this wonderfully brave conversation, Mary opens up about her career, meeting her husband and learning of his life, and their decision to have children. But Mary also talks about the devastating decision to leave her career after her eldest child was found to be hearing impaired, the grief she suffered knowing her child would never hear music, reuniting with the stage at the Queensland Ballet, and now choosing to learn AUSLAN with her eldest daughter Sophie.

Mary continues to train and teach the principal artists of Queensland Ballet, all the while juggling life with Li and their three grown up children, Sophie, Tom and Bridie. Mary continues to learn AUSLAN, and her book Mary’s Last Dance is available on Audible and in all good bookshops. If you'd like to listen to Li's conversation with me, please scroll down to Episode 5 of Talking Pointes, and we'll also pop the link in the show notes—and finally, to continue to follow all of Mary’s adventures, you'll find her on Instagram.

Mary and I recorded remotely, with Mary dialling in from Brisbane. This episode was produced in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

This week we head to Boston, where I'm speaking with Boston Ballet's legendary principal dancer, John Lam. John has the most incredible story: His Vietnamese parents were refugees who settled in the US and John, together with his brother and sister grew up in relative poverty in California. Traditional family values meant education was key in John's family, but he accidentally found dance as a young boy when his daycare offered it as an extra activity. And from there, the love affair began. John went on to train at Canada's National Ballet School, and on graduation was offered a position at the Boston Ballet. In this wondrous and beautiful conversation, John talks about the joys of dance, about finding his sexuality and the moment he came out to his parents. But we also talk about more about navigating race and racism in ballet, about meeting his husband, becoming a dad to their two boys, and John's hopes that his parents will one day see him dance.

We are thrilled to be sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks specialise in creating sustainable, world class dancewear for the stars Energetiks is offering Talking Pointes listeners a 20% discount [available until the end of March 2024]. Listen for the code in the episode. Shop their extensive range online at energetiks.com.au or energetiks.com if you’re listening from the US. T&Cs APPLY. @energetiks @energetiksusa

Trigger Warning

This episode discusses ideas around suicide. For help for depression and anxiety, turn to Beyond Blue at beyondblue.org.au

Talking Points is produced on the lands of the Gadigal and the Wanegal peoples to whom we pay our greatest respects. Talking Points is produced by Fjord Review. Remember to subscribe to get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. If you like us, please leave a five-star review. On the next episode of Talking Points, you'll hear from Dana Stephenson.

Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today, I'm speaking with my lifelong friend, Adam Blanch. Adam's story has often been compared with Billy Elliot. He grew up in a tiny town in regional Australia called Weston. It's about an hours drive west of Newcastle. In this tiny town everyone can always remember that Adam was dancing. And so, at the age of six, Adam's mum and dad enrolled him in the local ballet class, held in a local hall. He was the only boy. And so, his life in dance began. In this very candid and courageous interview, Adam opens up about his childhood, the bullying he suffered, his sexuality, but also the joys and the adventures he's had along the way to ultimately create the career and the life of his dreams. 

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I am speaking with the divine Deborah Brown. Deborah is a descendant of the Wakaid Clan of Badu Island, the Meriam people of Murray Island, and also has Scottish heritage. Deborah grew up in Brisbane, learning jazz, ballet and tap at her local dance school, while also dancing around the family home learning cultural dance. It was an eye opener to a world she never dreamt could be her career. But after finishing school, Deborah moved to Sydney, and while working as an usher at the Lyric Theatre she auditioned for Bangarra Dance Theatre and was accepted. It was a love affair that would last 15 years. Deborah was not only a dancer in the company, but as a principal muse, performing in 16 original works that travelled to 14 countries across the globe. She also turned her hand to choreography, creating works for the company and mentoring young dancers.

In this beautiful conversation, Deborah talks about her early life growing up in Brisbane, auditioning for Bangarra, the first time she met Steven Page, and the 15 years she spent with the Company. But Deborah talks about more than that, about the importance of culture, the pressure and obligations that come with that, and how she ultimately made the decision to find life after Bangarra as both a choreographer and film director.

Deborah continues to work with companies and dancers choreographing and directing projects all over Australia. She most recently worked with Bangarra to bring Terrain back to the Sydney Opera House stage 10 years after it debuted. To work with Deborah or to follow all of her adventures, you can find her on Instagram @abrowndeborah

Deborah and I recorded remotely, with Deborah dialing in from Queensland on the land of the Gimuy people, to whom we pay our greatest respects. With production on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation.

 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Marie Walton Mahon has taught and trained literally thousands of dancers here in Australia and around the globe. A dance prodigy in her own right, she was selected as a teenager to train in France with the great Rosella Hightower, and then danced professionally in Marseille, under the artistic directorship of the late, great, Roland Petit. However, her career was unexpectedly cut short and she returned home to Australia. With no career to fall back on she started a tiny dance school with just six students in Newcastle, Australia. Marie went on to create the National College of Dance, training students to the highest level, to enter ballet and contemporary dance schools and companies worldwide. In this beautifully candid interview, Marie talks about her own career, her journey to becoming a teacher, her family, and how she co-founded and grew the global phenomenon that is Progressing Ballet Technique. Hosted by @byclaudialawson

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Our show reel for Talking Pointes! All the best bits and a taste of what's to come.Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.  This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply.  Production dream team ✨ Hosted by @byclaudialawson Produced by @fjordreview Additional Production @clinttopic Sound & Editing @outputmedia Studios @brightsidesydney @sawtoothstudios

On our first episode of season three, I'm speaking with the former principal dancer of the Australian Ballet, the much loved Adam Bull. Adam grew up in outer Melbourne and by a stroke of luck, his primary school teacher at his local school suggested he try dance. He did, and it became a love affair that has lasted a lifetime. By the time he was a teenager, he was training under Brian Nolan at Dance World 3 0 1 before joining the Australian Ballet School and then being accepted straight into the Australian Ballet. In this wonderful interview recorded just five days before Adam's final performance in Melbourne. Adam reflects on his career, he speaks of his early life growing up, dancing, joining the company, and of course making principal. But we also talk about more about love, about his onstage relationship with Amber Scott, his thoughts on marriage and what it feels like to dance for the national company for 22 years. 

Team

Claudia Lawson, Host @byclaudialawson

Martin Peralta, Sound Designer @outputmedia

Penelope Ford, Producer @fjordreview

Clint Topic, Additional Sound Production @sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes was recorded on traditional lands of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, Awabakal and Worimi. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we have the pleasure of speaking with former Australian Ballet dancer Brooke Cassen. On Season Three of Talking Pointes, I spoke with Brooke on what became one of our most listened-to episodes of all time. Today, Brooke returns to the podcast to speak about the success of her episode, and we chat about how she opened up about promotions, and—often a taboo topic in dance—what it means if you don't get promoted and how you deal with that, which is the reality for most dancers in the industry. Because we are focusing on health this season, Brooke and I then discuss the injuries she suffered during her career, how she recovered both physically and mentally to return to the stage. We then discussed the Australian ballet's response to the media storm earlier this year when a Sydney Morning Herald review described dancers of the Australian Ballet as looking “unusually thin.”

Brooke continues to direct and teach at her studio in Rose Bay in Sydney for class times. And to sign up, head to studio sixninesix.com au or you can find them on Instagram @studio696x. And you can follow all of Brooke's wonderful adventures on her Instagram @brookecassen.

Brooke and I recorded our conversation on the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation to whom we pay our greatest respects. Your host and producer is me, Claudia Lawson, with additional production by Penelope Ford and Clint Topic. Sound production and editing is by Martin Peralta at Output Media. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Listen up! Talking Pointes, the podcast that shines a light on life in dance and the performing arts, is back for a fourth season. This season we focus on health— we'll be talking about injury recovery, the psychology of returning to the stage, about body image, disordered eating, and mental health. Our guests include doctors, dancers, physiotherapists, and more. We are so excited for you to join us for this incredible season! Launches on Tuesday, January 14, 2025. Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.  This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply.  Production dream team ✨ Hosted by @byclaudialawson Produced by @fjordreview Additional Production @clinttopic Sound & Editing @outputmedia Studios @brightsidesydney @sawtoothstudios

Today I’m speaking with the divine Jenna Roberts. Jenna grew up in Newcastle and started dancing only because a local ballet studio set up shop on the same street as her family home.  But as fortune would have it, that local studio happened to be the Marie Walton Mahon Dance Academy, as it was known back then. And so Jenna, and little sister Callie, started dancing. For any outsider, it was clear the Robert’s sisters were born to dance—with high arches and long, lean legs, genetics almost pre-determined their careers. By the time Jenna was a teen, she was winning scholarships and accolades before, at 16, she was accepted into the Royal Ballet School in London.

In this courageous and extraordinary conversation, Jenna reveals it’s not always as it seems—we talk about tough years at Royal Ballet School, about crippling home sickness, and then rising to become a principal artist with the Royal Birmingham Ballet. But more than that, Jenna also speaks about the pressures that continue to exist on body image in the dance world—and with that her own experience taking laxatives, the passing of her mum, and her decision to retire at the peak of her career on her own terms. Finally Jenna speaks about her years of infertility and IVF, before making a wonderful and unexpected life decision with her husband, Joe.

Jenna and her husband Joe Caley have just relocated from London, and are now based in Melbourne—where Joe has joined the Australian Ballet as their newest principal artist. Jenna continues to coach and teach the rising starts of dance, all while running her own Pilates studio tailored for dancers and athletes. To continue follow all of Jenna’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram at @Jenna_Caley_Pilates

Jenna and I recorded remotely, with Jenna dialling in from Melbourne on the land of the Kulin people. Jenna’s episode was produced in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

We’re delighted that Jenna Robert’s episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetiks are a sustainable, Australian Made brand that specialise in creating world class dancewear for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in Energetiks’ premium, high performance fabrics. See their entire range online at energetiks.com.au, and for all Talking Pointes listeners there’s a 20% discount on all Energetiks products—listen in for the code!

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I’m speaking with Beau Dean Riley Smith. Beau was born on Wiradjuri Country in Dubbo, Western NSW. But as a little kid the family moved to Culburra on the NSW South Coast where Beau spent his childhood surrounded by siblings, love and chaos while growing up at the beach. Beau didn’t learn to dance as a kid, instead he studied drama in high school, before being accepted into the performance program at WAPPA—the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts in Perth. It was a transformative year in which Beau’s world exploded, and led to Beau auditioning for drama programs across the country, including NIDA—but Beau didn’t get in, and so, in a surprise move, and with no dance experience, Beau auditioned for NAISDA—and was accepted. In this extraordinary conversation, Beau reveals his journey to joining Bangarra, his struggles with body image and weight, and his difficulties accepting the Helpmann Award for Best Male Dancer which coincided with the death of his sister. We also talk about the gravity of performing on Country, the pride and pressure that comes with that, and, in an unexpected announcement, Beau reveals that after nearly a decade with Bangarra he plans to leave the Company and reveals who he’s signed with next.

Beau continues to perform with Bangarra, but after more than a decade will leave the Company at the end of this year to join the Sydney Theatre Company. For Bangarra tour dates and to see Beau’s final performances head to bangarra.com.au, and for Sydney Theatre Company tickets it's sydneytheatre.com.au. And to continue to follow all of Beau’s adventures, you’ll find him on Insta at @beaudrsmith.

Beau and I met and recorded in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I have the immense privilege of speaking with Dr. Sue Mayes. She's the current director of the Australian Ballet's globally recognized artistic health team. Sue was born in Victoria, and like many physios who work with dancers, Sue learned classical ballet in her youth and studied full-time under the formidable Gailene stock. It was while she was completing her diploma of dance that Sue’s started to think about her future. Her love of dance combined with an interest in anatomy led her to physiotherapy, and as we say, the rest is history. In this most fascinating episode, Sue shares her journey in dance, and how she found her way to the Australian Ballet, where she began an esteemed career that has spanned 30 years developing the Australian Ballet's Injury Prevention Program.

Sue's time as the head of the Australian Ballet's Wellness Team has now come to an end, and she begins her tenure as a senior lecturer at Latrobe University in Bundoora, Melbourne. If you'd like to find any of Sue's extensive research, all you need to do is Google her name and you can also find her injury prevention exercises on the Australian Ballet's YouTube channel. To continue to follow all of Sue's adventures, you'll find her on Instagram @suemayes8839.

Today's episode was the final episode of Season four of Talking Pointes. But stay tuned. We'll be releasing lots of bonus episodes in the coming weeks.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

David McAllister is probably the most well-known face of dance in Australia. He was born in Perth and he was accepted into the Australian Ballet School as a 17-year-old. He graduated and joined the company directly, wowing crowds across the globe. His final performance was in “Giselle” in 2001. And then, three months later, he was named Artistic Director of that same company.

During his tenure, he led the company from strength to strength, staging brand new works, touring the company around the world and inspiring a new level of technical brilliance. But he also created a company with meaning—setting up groundbreaking maternity leave policies and health and wellness policies, so that dancers could have careers much longer than they could have ever have dreamed.

In 2020, after 20 years as artistic director and four decades with the company, he announced his retirement. It was going to be a year of celebrations, but then Covid—the company closed down last March and they only made it on stage for three performances. David is currently in Helsinki, Finland, where he called me, but he's on his next adventure, staging the Finnish National Ballet's 100th anniversary performance of “Swan Lake.” David speaks candidly about his retirement, what Covid meant for him and the Australian Ballet, and his big regret while he was at the Australian Ballet.

This episode of Talking Pointes is sponsored by @ecodancers

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we're am speaking with the magnificent Amy Harris, Principal Dancer with the Australian Ballet. Amy, grew up in the small town of Ararat in rural Victoria, and along with her two sisters, learnt tap, ballet and jazz at her local hall. From there it was the dream run—at 15, Amy was accepted into the Australian Ballet School, before being offered a contract with the Australian Ballet Company on graduation—by the newly appointed director David McAllister no less. For many aspiring dancers, it was the dream run. But from here, Amy’s journey changed speeds. In this beautifully candid interview Amy talks about the highs and the lows of her career, about body confidence, becoming pregnant, her mid-year interviews with David McAllister, and ultimately coming to terms with not being made a principal dancer—until magically, 17 years later and newly pregnant with her second child, she was.

Amy continues to perform as a Principal Artist with the Australian Ballet, all the while juggling life with her husband Senior Artist Jarryd Madden and their two cherished children Willow and Phoenix. While retirement is not yet in sight, in her spare time Amy is training as a wedding celebrant. To continue to follow all of Amy’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @amyharris_7

This episode is sponsored by Bloch. Listen for a promo code, valid through September. Full T&C's on www.bloch.com.au

Talking Pointes is recorded in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

For our bonus episode this season, we’re catching up with the Australian Ballet’s Artistic Director David Hallberg. Last season, David and I spoke about his life growing up in South Dakota, being bullied, training at the Paris Opera, becoming principal at American Ballet Theatre, and being the first American to be invited to dance with the Bolshoi Ballet in Russia. We talked about climbing back from his epic injury, his head space at that time, before taking over the Artistic Directorship of the Australian Ballet right in the middle of Covid. A year later we talk about what it's been like to be artistic director now that theatres are open and audiences are back, about what kind of as dancers he selects for the company, how he decides who will be promoted, the Australian Ballet's 60th anniversary, and life in Australia.

If you’d like to read more about David’s life, find our full conversation in the show notes, or you can read his autobiography called A Body of Work: Dancing to the Edge and Back. For Australian Ballet updates you can find them on Instagram at @ausballet and to continue to follow David’s adventures, you’ll find him on Instagram at @davidhallbergofficial

Hosted by Claudia Lawson. David and Claudia recorded remotely, with David dialling in from Melbourne, the land of the Kulin people, with recording and production on the land of the Awabakal and Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, to all of whom to which we pay our greatest respects.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today I'm speaking with David Hallberg. We actually started this season with David McAllister who had just stepped down as Artistic Director of the Australian Ballet. We are now speaking with David Hallberg, the brand new Artistic Director of the Australian Ballet. David was born in a small American town called Rapid City in South Dakota. He started dancing at nine years old, after seeing Fred Astaire on the television. And he only started ballet when he was 13. But by 17, he was selected to do a year at the Paris Opera Ballet School before joining his dream company, ABT, the American Ballet Theatre.

He rose swiftly through the ranks, to principal within four years. And then he was the first American to ever be asked to be a principal with the Bolshoi Ballet, the Russian juggernaut that had previously only accepted Russian trained dancers. In this wonderfully engaging interview, David talks about his love of dance, growing up in America, and the moment he was first named as a principal. But David also shares some of his darker moments. He talks about bullying, and the injury that crippled him for over two years, before finally returning to the stage and becoming the new Artistic Director of the Australian Ballet. When we spoke, David had just announced that due to Covid the Australian Ballet won't be performing for the remainder of 2021.

This episode is sponsored by MDM Dancewear.  Listeners are offered a 10% discount code on MDM Dancewear, for a limited time. 

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today we're am speaking with the magnificent Amy Harris, Principal Dancer with the Australian Ballet. Amy, grew up in the small town of Ararat in rural Victoria, and along with her two sisters, learnt tap, ballet and jazz at her local hall. From there it was the dream run—at 15, Amy was accepted into the Australian Ballet School, before being offered a contract with the Australian Ballet Company on graduation—by the newly appointed director David McAllister no less. For many aspiring dancers, it was the dream run. But from here, Amy’s journey changed speeds. In this beautifully candid interview Amy talks about the highs and the lows of her career, about body confidence, becoming pregnant, her mid-year interviews with David McAllister, and ultimately coming to terms with not being made a principal dancer—until magically, 17 years later and newly pregnant with her second child, she was.

Amy continues to perform as a Principal Artist with the Australian Ballet, all the while juggling life with her husband Senior Artist Jarryd Madden and their two cherished children Willow and Phoenix. While retirement is not yet in sight, in her spare time Amy is training as a wedding celebrant. To continue to follow all of Amy’s adventures, you can find her on Instagram @amyharris_7

This episode is sponsored by Bloch. Listen for a promo code, valid through September. Full T&C's on www.bloch.com.au

Talking Pointes is recorded in Sydney on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects.

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

The incredible Frances Rings, Bangarra's Associate Artistic Director, joins us on this episode of Talking Pointes. A descendant of the Kokatha people, Frances was born in Adelaide and spent her childhood traveling, dancing, and living all around Australia while her father worked on the railways. However, it was a teacher at her boarding school in Queensland that spotted her talent, and encouraged her to audition for NAISDA, the National Aboriginal and Islander Skills Development Association.

And so at 18 years of age, Frances boarded a Greyhound bus and traveled the 12 hours to Sydney. In this beautifully raw and personal interview, Frances talks about her journey into dance, her incredible career with Bangarra, and finding confidence in her own body. But Frances talks about more than that. Her onstage connection with the late Russell Page, becoming a mum, and the pressure but also the importance of not only being a female leader, but a First Nations female leader in dance in Australia.

Listen here or find us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify.

For our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners, this episode of Talking Pointes contains the names of people who have passed. Please pause now, if you'd prefer not to hear their names. The Page family have given Bangarra Dance Theatre permission to use their names for the purpose of this interview. And just a trigger warning for this episode, we discuss issues around suicide, so if you'd prefer not to listen or read, please press pause or stop reading now. 

Your host and producer is Claudia Lawson, additional production by Penelope Ford, with editing and sound production by Martin Peralta. And for the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com.

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Li Cunxin, artistic director of the Queensland Ballet, joins us today on Talking Pointes. Most of you will know Li from his early life. He is Mao's Last Dancer. Li was born into complete poverty in rural China, where he was plucked from obscurity to join the Beijing Dance Academy. He was put through years of brutal training, up to 16 hours a day, to become a dancer. However, his life was meant to be one of twists and turns. He was chosen to undergo an exchange to the United States to dance with the Houston Ballet and while he was there he fell in love and married an American dancer. The resulting standoff between the USA and China made Li a global name, and with it, a ballet superstar. But with that success also came pain. In this wonderfully personal and at times emotional interview, Li shares stories from his early life, and the trauma of being banned from China, but he also shares the highs, reuniting with his parents, finding enduring love and to learning Auslan for his eldest daughter, Sophie. Hosted by Claudia Lawson

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview and @byclaudialawson

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios

Today, I'm speaking with my lifelong friend, Adam Blanch. Adam's story has often been compared with Billy Elliot. He grew up in a tiny town in regional Australia called Weston. It's about an hours drive west of Newcastle. In this tiny town everyone can always remember that Adam was dancing. And so, at the age of six, Adam's mum and dad enrolled him in the local ballet class, held in a local hall. He was the only boy. And so, his life in dance began. In this very candid and courageous interview, Adam opens up about his childhood, the bullying he suffered, his sexuality, but also the joys and the adventures he's had along the way to ultimately create the career and the life of his dreams. 

For the latest in all things dance, head to fjordreview.com and follow us on Instagram at @fjordreview

Talking Pointes is produced on the lands of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, to whom we pay our greatest respects. 

This season of Talking Pointes is sponsored by Energetiks. Energetics, specialize in creating sustainable for the stars of tomorrow. Perform and feel your best at every stage of your dance journey in energetics, premium, high performance fabrics. Talking Pointes listeners receive a discount code of 20% to use on their extensive range online @ energetics.com au or for our US listeners, it's energetics.com, Ts and Cs apply. 

Production dream team ✨

Hosted by @byclaudialawson

Produced by @fjordreview

Additional Production @clinttopic

Sound & Editing @outputmedia

Studios @brightsidesydney

@sawtoothstudios