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Pub. Date
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29 Aug 2021
Laura Racky, business founder and commercial lawyer at LL Gold, talks starting and building successful businesses
00:27:51
@lauraracky is a #commerciallawyer in her own firm @LLGold. But her being her knows that's not really enough. She likes to have lots of things going. Her portfolio of interests includes;
Michael Kerr: Hi, it's Michael Kerr here, presenting Small Business Banter. A healthy micro and small business sector means a successful economy and a more vibrant society. Small Business Banter is about helping regional business owners better prepare for current challenges but also for the next stage of business success. I'm Michael Kerr, founder of Kerr Capital, advisors to business owners.
Each week, I interview a fellow small business owner or an expert and they share their stories, their lived experiences, the wins and the losses, and their best advice to help you, the listener, get the most you can from your own business. Small Business Banter is brought to you from the studios of 104.7 Gippsland FM and is heard across Australia on the Community Radio Network. And thanks also to Kerr Capital supporters of the show.
Okay, so welcome to another edition of Small Business Banter radio. Laura Racky from LL Gold. Laura is in, chatting to us today. Laura's got a really diverse background, and what we're going to focus on today is her experiences as a commercial lawyer but also, as a founder and a business operator, how she manages to fit all that in, and some of the tips and advice she would give to prospective business owners.
So Laura, a principal at LL Gold, founder of LGlow Beauty, also a director of All Founders, a host on All Founders Show, you can tell us about that in a minute, Laura. And look, you've got a host of other advisory or board roles that span sort of tech companies, small new businesses, as well as, you had a strong involvement with Channel 31. So firstly, welcome in, Laura.
Laura Racky: Thanks, Michael. Great to be here.
Michael: Yes. It's really great to have you in. Do you want to just expand a little bit on the sort of major things that you're involved with and why you do that, firstly?
Laura: Absolutely. So I suppose my sort of number one career baby is my law firm, LL Gold. And she's nearly 5 years old now. That's probably, I suppose, where my main bread and butter comes from. But me being me, that's not really enough. I like to have lots of things going on. So we've also recently started up the All Founders business. So that's more focused on leadership training and strategy. This year, we kicked off LGlow Beauty. I just love all things beauty and skincare, so I thought why not give it a go. So that's been really fun, getting into e-commerce.
Michael: Classic lawyer stuff.
Laura: And then, yeah, I'm very lucky and grateful to be working with some excellent not-for-profits at the moment, Big Group Hug and the Mazzei Foundation. So lots of things going on keeps me interested, I guess.
Micahel: For sure. Let's start with how you choose what to do and how you manage your time with that extensive portfolio of things.
Laura: Yes. I suppose when you do run your own business as your main line of work, so the law firm, that does give me some flexibility in terms of where I spend my time. And I always joke about when you run your own business, you choose which 20 hours a day to work. So really, I've got a funny little timetable.
I actually don't start and sit down at the desk until about 10:30. The majority of the working day is on the law firm, and then it's really the evenings that the extracurricular sort of interests and board roles or advisory roles get looking. So it's a bit of a mixed bag, but it just means that my days are very diverse and there are lots of jumping around, which for some reason, just works for my brain.
Michael: Yeah. So why get involved in this range of things? Is that your role or purpose to be fully and fully again occupied? Is it because opportunities come your way? Or is it because you just see yourself driven to achieve? I'm really interested in the underpinning motivation for you.
Laura: It's funny you ask that because I think many people during, well, this COVID time, it's been the first time in my life I've actually taken stock and ask some of those questions. It's just always been this internal driver for me to load up and be completely sort of overwhelmed, I suppose. But I think the more that I step back and look at it, I really like learning new things. I like being challenged.
And as much as being a commercial lawyer throws up new challenges every day because I don't know everything and all of my clients have all different types of businesses, I think that doing this just gives me a great opportunity to work with all different types of people in all different types of capacities. And every day, something different comes up that I have an aha moment or I can learn something from. And it's actually very interesting and rewarding.
And obviously, on the not-for-profit side of things, in my view, when you're a professional and you get to a certain stage in your career, it's really important to find ways to give back to the community. And I've got special skills, so that seems to be the most appropriate way to give back.
Michael: Yeah. And some people want to give back and others. I think about it and probably, maybe, don't see the benefit of it because it is giving back. But does all that experience make you a better commercial lawyer in the end?
Laura: Absolutely. I mean, when you're sitting on not-for-profit boards or advisory boards, especially as a professional consultant, all of a sudden, you're actually involved in a business from that director-level where you can have a real oversight on all of the working parts rather than when you're an advisor, people come to you often with a very sort of small problem or issue and that might be all that you'll see about their business.
Whereas, when you get to work as an advisor or a director on a not-for-profit, you see everything. You're involved in operations, partnerships, employment, leasing, the full gamut. And it actually, I think, makes you a much better advisor because you're actually, all of a sudden, exposed to the wide range of things that a not-for-profit or a business face every day rather than this little pocket of problems, I suppose.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, I think as a specialist advisor, often, you can be busy, but the clients already framed their problem. And it's like if I knew this or that, I could have helped you more broadly. So that's kind of what you're saying. You see those same business challenges from a different perspective and you can bring up other advice or other solutions.
Laura: Exactly.
Michael: Yeah. And look, I do a lot of work with SME owners and a lot busy doing the day-to-day stuff. And it's kind of hard to have the conversation that you need to take time out of the business. And you can learn away from the business and bring things back. But I understand why people just sometimes say, "I'm too busy." But the roles you have with not-for-profits and other organizations, as I say, can be really rich in learning. How do you go from the law to beauty? Like this is in e-commerce and social media and all that goes with that business.
Laura: I will admit, it has been a real personal challenge for me. So in my legal career, I have often worked in insolvency, restructuring, and litigation. That sort of work is very, very urgent [corsstalk] and heavy and considered, I think, important.
Michael: Heavy.
Laura: And so I have this general expectation because my clients are very responsive and they moved quickly and I am the same, that I felt that in this new endeavor, that anything that I wanted to complete or get done or buy would move in the same way and be as easy to navigate. Boy. I know this sounds crazy, but really simple things like ordering stickers for packaging, for someone who's just used to things just going through in a very linear fashion and it being really quick and easy, it's just like, you might send an email to a prospective supplier, and you might get a response like 6 days later. And to someone like me, who's used to things just getting done, it just [inaudible].
Michael: How hard is it?
Laura: Yes. But again, it's made me realize not everything is urgent or important, and different types of things have different ways that people work in them. So I think just from a personal perspective on patience and navigating a different industry and world, that's been really challenging and interesting. But yeah, just, I think e-commerce, obviously, it's not going away, it's only going to grow. And I feel that being an advisor in this day and age and not really getting into this world and understanding how it works would be a miss. I'll be missing out to try and do it myself.
So a lot of learning. We're still growing, changing. I'm still trying to work out what the brand's voice is, what we're about, our mission, all of these things. But I'm now at the point where I say, "You know what, you ran headlong into this. You didn't know what you were doing. You're making it up as you're going along. You don't have to. This is not a Sprint. It can be a marathon." So I really realized I don't have to be turning over a million dollars. Let's just actually use this as this tool taught for learning. So it just so happens it coincides with something I really enjoy, the beauty and skincare industry. And so I'm trying to treat it as something fun.
And actually, you talked about business owners feeling like they don't have time. To me, I think you can view all these extra things, if you love business, if you love having autonomy and doing things that interest you, you can actually start seeing all of these things as fun. I know that sounds really lame, maybe, to a lot of people, but I think there's a lot of us who actually get a lot of pleasure out of all this learning and interest. And it so happens that our hobbies and our fun are running businesses and learning things.
Michael: Yeah, you're not playing golf.
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: Not there's anything wrong with those things, but you've got a different interest.
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: So I stay tuned, LGlow Beauty. I'm going to take over the world, but just not straight away. And that's okay.
Michael: I have wondered whether there was any reference to LL Cool J in that.
Laura: I actually can't even remember where. I mean, L, my name is Laura, but I don't even know where, when I came up with LL Gold, came from. I didn't want it to be my name. I didn't want the firm to be my name, but yeah, no.
Michael: It's a pretty contemporary brand. It's great. But it suits with the energy and the interest you bring to it. With your clients, just to come back to some of the stuff you're dealing with us today, I'm keen to understand what you're seeing your business clients, what are the big challenges they've got at the moment.
Laura: It's been a bit cyclical. There was, obviously, March onwards for the first few months, a lot of issues with leases. And they were the clients who literally were shutting their doors, work-from-home wasn't a possibility. So we're talking about hospitality, entertainment. So that was sort of a huge focus at that time, a lot of negotiating with landlords, also employment issues. But now, as we're sort of, I don't know, coming out of it or learning to live with this new normal, yes, there are still leasing issues, but a lot of people are trying to get out of leases, moving to new premises, change the way they work.
And also, I think this has been an opportunity for a lot of businesses to take stock and look at the way they interact with their clients, what their employment agreements say. When things are good, we just put our contracts in a drawer and we hope to never look at them. But I think over this last 12 months, this has been the first time maybe a lot of businesses have had to look at employment agreements, have had to look at their leases or their employments with their customers or their clients.
Michael: And even, by the sounds of it, their core business model.
Laura: Yes.
Michael: Why we're in business? How do we do it differently? Can we do it without a lease on a property?
Laura: Exactly, exactly. So there are lots of strategic questions. And part of that is flushing out, "Well, where do we sit in our contractual landscape? What leeway do we actually have to make these changes?" I mean, if you're stuck in a 5-year lease, it's pretty hard to get out of it. So these sorts of questions, I think, have been interesting. But then, more from a strategical leadership perspective, a lot of clients have are facing heaps of issues with their employees.
And I think this is not new, no one's surprised about this, but people's expectations have changed, people's wants and desires have changed. Things they thought were important 12 Months ago, they don't think are important anymore. Getting people back into the office is tricky. So it's a weird time, a really weird time.
Michael: Yeah, it sure is. I want to continue that, but on today's episode of Small Business Banter, we're talking with Laura Rocky from LL Gold. Laura, yeah, this complete rethink, some owners might see that as an opportunity, and maybe not right now but later on. They've kind of been able to completely remodel or being forced to remodel the way they do business. Are you seeing, with your clients, an outflow of people? Getting to the point where they go, "The lease is too challenging. I'm going to reinvent. I'm going to do e-commerce."
Laura: Look, a lot of clients who are coming towards the end of their leases and now looking at different spaces, I think co-working spaces, I think, had a very, very difficult time over COVID, but I think they'll find that there'll be a resurgence because a lot of businesses are going to look for more nimble and agile spaces for their staff. I think that physical spaces are still going to be really important. We are human beings and it doesn't matter how comfy it is to work in your UGG boots, we like to be around one another sometimes and to have that choice. But look, a lot of things have changed.
And actually, a little pattern that I have noticed in the last couple of months with clients is there is a lot of discussions that clients are having with potential partners or potential sales of their business. There's a lot of movement, a lot of exploratory movement because I don't think people know what's going to happen in the next little while, but there is a lot of, I wouldn't say M&A activity, but just lots of discussions about what if we move into this space or what if we join forces with this partner. And a lot of these discussions are happening because I think, for the first time, like I said, people are facing a shift and the revenue isn't just flowing in without thought anymore.
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: A lot of businesses have had to stop and think about how they make money.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. Look, you said you need to pull out those contracts, employment contracts, lease agreements, others. But underpinning that is just, "How am I going to continue to do business?" And so on that front, alliances and joint ventures and I think you do work with bringing in employees to businesses as well so it's diversifying and collaborating. It's all those kind of nice words, but it's maybe forcing a complete rethink of how we're going to survive. But not just survive, prosper but by maybe getting closer to other businesses and bringing in key employees.
Laura: Yes. Yeah, I think when things are good, it's easy not to navel-gaze. But when things start getting tricky, yeah, we've got to be creative and inventive. And that's why this time is actually very, very interesting.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, and look, at the hub of all of that is personal relationships, whether it's with suppliers, partners, customers, employees. And the value of those personal relationships, even in a business context, is so important. You got to put time into them. And entering into business with someone, I mean, you and I have talked about this in the past, you got to have an exit plan from all those sorts of things.
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: You've got to think through the good and the bad, unfortunately, because sometimes, they don't work.
Laura: Absolutely. And I talk about this a lot with clients, especially when we're starting new businesses or entering into new organizations where we've got a group of shareholders. It's always very nice at the start. And everyone's all really excited and everyone puts on their best behavior. And when everyone's making money, everybody gets along great and we never have to look at a shareholder agreement. But when things turn or people's life circumstances change, this is the stuff, this is when the rubber hits the road. So if people have not been thinking about these things early on, it can cause a bit of drama later.
Michael: It sure can, yeah. So you launched All Founders.
Laura: Yes.
Michael: So this is kind of like a further progression of your portfolio, but also a logical extension of running your own business and experiencing just those day-to-day operational things around stickers. So is that the impetus for...?
Laura: Well, All Founders came early last year, so this was before COVID and before LGlow Beauty, everything.
Michael: Oh, okay.
Laura: So Christian Cunningham and I are at the head of All Founders. And where it came from is, I run a legal business, he runs a recruiting M&A business. But what we both realized is that over our careers, we actually had learned so much from the people we work with and from advising that we needed a new brand to offer those types of services. It's very hard to pick up the phone and say to your lawyer, "Can you give me some leadership training?" I just think intellectually, people want to see it in a different bundle. And obviously, the same for him. From a recruitment and acquisition specialist, no one's expecting strategy and leadership training from him.
So we bought that all together under the All Founders brand. We set up the All Founders Show, a podcast that then ended up a TV show on Ticker. And that's been really interesting and fun to go and work with clients in a totally different way than as a lawyer or a recruiter because I think, for me, when I walk into the room as a lawyer, people do bristle and they respond differently and they get a bit nervous. And it's good to just sort of come in and say "Yes, I'm that but today, we're going to-"
Michael: Switch hats.
Laura: Although I do get wheeled out often by Christian to give the governance training, but anyway, that's for another day.
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: It's very important. So that's been really fun, to actually work with clients in a different way, to talk about their succession planning, their short and long-term strategy, building up managers. And I think, again, when we talk from the COVID perspective, there's going to be a huge gap in our managers and our leaders who are not being managed and led through COVID because we're all remote.
Michael: Right. You see a really big hole getting bigger.
Laura: Absolutely. And if you're not around your leader often to have those really quick chats to run things by them, I mean, you're not picking up your phone every 5 minutes to make that call to your manager to ask the question. I remember, even just as a young lawyer, always wanting to sit in the office or the spot outside the partners office because I loved hearing them on the phone. I loved hearing them in meetings with other partners because you learn so much just by listening. And we are losing this. So I think there is this big gap where a lot of these leaders are just going to need a little bit of outside mentorship to get them through, to get their skills up. I think they're a bit at sea at the moment.
Michael: Yeah. Look, and it's probably the same as it's always been for those small business owners who have always done it solo.
Laura: Yes.
Michael: I've always been their own counsel. They've always struggled to find somebody that is a trusted advisor. So yeah, I think it's kind of the same thing, but it's obviously removed from employees in a massive way in the last 12 to 18 months. And it goes to where we started, which is developing broader experience outside of whatever it is you do day-to-day. You sought out a partner to learn. And I mean, there are opportunities everywhere you look. I think there's an explosion of clubs and online networking business things, so the resources are out there.
But we've only got a little bit of time left, Laura. There are two things I want to cover. One is there's a lot of energy with businesses recreating or starting afresh. So in the first hundred days, what are the three or four things you're thinking about reinventing your business or starting? What are the three or four things you absolutely must address?
Laura: Yes. Look, the really boring thing, I think, is always structure. It always shocks me how many small business owners have no understanding, I guess, of how they exist in the legal space.
Michael: So this is in the sense of having a company versus a trust versus a partnership?
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Laura: And what if it's really boring and it is very expensive, but if you're going to do it, I think you need to do it right.
Michael: Yup.
Laura: Because if you don't get that right, then the next thing, which is contracts with your customers and your suppliers, you're not going to get that right. So if you don't know who you are as a business from a structural perspective, you can't enter into contracts properly. So those two things go quite hand in hand. And then obviously, we've got things like your insurance and your work cover and your employment agreements.
Michael: It's very easy as I'm excited, which is going to work and we're going to get on with it, but don't fall for the trap.
Laura: Exactly.
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: I think lots of small business owners get super excited. And I get it, I've done it too, about logos and branding and websites and Instagram. But at the heart of all of that, you still need to have a functional structure in a business because here's hoping you're going to go gangbusters. And rewinding and fixing those structural issues later is very, very difficult.
Michael: Hey, Laura Racky, that's fantastic, really enjoyed the discussion with you. Thanks so much for sharing everything. I just wanted to close out, you had an involvement with Channel 31. We're on the Community Radio Network so there's some pretty good news. Just before the end of June, a renewal for 4 years?
Laura: Yeah. So I think it's 3.
Michael: Three?
Laura: Yes.
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: So really fantastic. I mean, the last couple of renewals have only been for a year, which is not a lot of time.
Michael: Yes.
Laura: I think the 3 years is a real recognition that one, the spectrum is not going anywhere so we may as well put it to good use.
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: And two, that these organizations need that time to transition properly. So I'm really thrilled. I think it's wonderful.
Michael: Yeah, it's a great result. Hey, Laura Racky from LL Gold, thank you very much for your time today.
Laura: Thanks, Michael.
Michael: So that is all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired, bringing you small business experts and other small business owners and hearing their stories.
If you want to listen to any past episode, jump onto your podcast platform of choice and search Small Business Banter. There, you will find a diverse and fascinating collection of small business owners and experts openly discussing and sharing their experiences.
For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today or to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com or you can find us on Facebook and Instagram. And it would be great to have you tuned in the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.
[END]
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Shane Cheek owns Continua Software and shares his deep experience from starting, selling, buying and operating multiple software businesses.
01:13:02
@ShaneCheek is the CEO of @ContinuaSoftware which is a private company that specialises in acquiring, operating and growing B2B software companies.
Shane is an experienced founder, builder, business seller and investor. His expertise and practical insights make this episode a must-listen for #businessowners who are potential sellers looking to understand the best strategies to sell their business, especially when they are selling to an industry buyer. In this episode we cover;
how to best manage the process of selling your business to an industry buyer
the fast growing trend of #searchfund buyers making direct approaches to business owners
how to best prepare for a direct approach
preparing for sale negotiations
understanding the value of your company
the importance of building relationships with potential acquirers
how to effectively qualify incoming inquiries from a search fund or industry buyer
navigating negotiations with #privateequity buyers like a pro
preparing for a fulfilling life after selling
the crucial role of trusted advisors in the selling process
"People are messy, businesses are messy, people are imperfect, and businesses are imperfect as well. Acknowledging that and then approaching any potential transaction or sale with that as a realization makes things smoother and hopefully more enjoyable and fun along the way as well" - Shane Cheek
Visit @continuasoftware.com to learn more about Continua Software and their focus on acquiring businesses in the software and technology space.
Contact Shane at Shane@continuasoftware.com to connect with him regarding business opportunities or discussions related to small businesses in the software and technology sector.
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:06 - Introduction to Small Business Banter podcast
Michael Kerr introduces the Small Business Banter podcast, highlighting its focus on business owners and their advisors at various stages of business ownership.
00:02:34 - Continua Software and Outreach Model
Shane Cheek discusses Continua Software's focus on acquiring B2B software companies and their outreach model to directly connect with business owners. He emphasizes the importance of building relationships and understanding the people behind the businesses.
00:10:14 - Reasons for Considering an Exit
Shane highlights the reasons why business owners consider selling their businesses, including reaching a plateau, feeling tired, and personal factors such as upcoming travel or personal fulfillment.
00:14:30 - Importance of People in Acquisition
Shane emphasizes the significance of prioritizing people in business acquisitions, focusing on aligning values and building rapport with business owners. He discusses the importance of understanding owner's goals beyond financial aspects.
00:17:22 - Flexible Operating Model and Partnership
Shane explains Continua Software's flexible approach to business acquisition, accommodating varying levels of owner involvement post-acquisition. He emphasizes the importance of aligning owner's strengths with the business's needs for mutual success.
00:20:46 - Challenges in Business Transition
Shane discusses the tensions and challenges in making new business decisions, especially for sellers who have built successful businesses.
00:23:39 - Key Elements of a Good Business Opportunity
Shane highlights the importance of consistency, predictability, and clarity of roles and responsibilities in evaluating a business opportunity.
00:27:28 - Importance of Building Relationships
Shane emphasizes the importance of building a relationship with the owner of the business, comparing it to dating and marriage, and the role of a good advisor in the process.
00:31:48 - The Role of an Advisor in Selling a Business
Shane discusses the significance of having an advisor to guide the seller in the sale process, and the impact of having an advisor on the certainty of closing the deal.
00:39:32 - Managing Inquiries and Interest
Shane addresses the increasing inquiries to owners from various sources, emphasizing the need for credibility and genuine interest in potential buyers, and the importance of managing the pipeline effectively.
00:41:47 - Qualifying Inbound Inquiries
The owner needs to quickly validate the quality and intentions of inbound inquiries. Key questions to ask: Why do you want to buy my business? What is your capital source? What are your values and alignment?
00:44:28 - Evaluating Potential Buyers
It's important to assess the track record and intentions of potential buyers. Owners should approach incoming inquiries as they would a long-term sales prospect or a potential business partner.
00:47:48 - Initial Steps in the Sale Process
After an initial conversation, gathering historical financials, customer lists, and staff lists is crucial. Advisors can help prepare the business for sale by cleaning up and organizing key information.
00:55:53 - Reflecting on Business Performance
Owners should reflect annually on their business performance, similar to the process of preparing for an exit. Making 1% improvements in the business can have a significant impact over time.
01:01:34 - Understanding the Buyer
Understanding the motivations and playbook of potential buyers, such as private equity firms, is crucial in the sale process. Each buyer may have a different approach and set of expectations.
01:02:14 - Private Equity Playbook
Shane explains the private equity playbook, including initial approach, attractive evaluation, period of exclusivity, and strict due diligence process.
01:03:24 - Understanding the Buyer
Shane emphasizes the importance of understanding the type of buyer and being prepared for potential retrading, annoyance, and invasive due diligence process.
01:04:50 - Post-Sale Considerations
The discussion focuses on the emotional impact of selling a business, filling the void after the sale, and the importance of planning for life after the sale.
01:07:18 - Setting a Walk-Away Number
Shane advises on setting a walk-away number and emphasizes the significance of understanding the cash flow implications of the headline offer.
01:13:03 - Embracing Imperfections
Shane discusses the importance of acknowledging the imperfections in businesses and how being upfront about them can lead to smoother transactions and problem-solving approaches.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Louise Broekman from the The Advisory Board Centre on how business owners can benefit from advisory boards
00:27:51
Louise Brockman is the founder and CEO of the Advisory Board Center. She grew up in a small business family and started her first business at 19 years old. It's in her blood. She has experienced the absolute highs and lows. With this cumulative experience, she is on a mission to help other #businessowners take advantage of outside advice. In our discussion she talks about;
the big adventures she had when the family started a new business
wanting to grow it, needing to be cautious and deliberate in the decisions about what's next
second guessing the decisions made
misjudging the launch
having to sell everything that I owned, to keep the business going
realising a year later, that when she had the opportunity to grow that business wanting to be confident of not messing it up and put herself at risk
putting together her own advisory board
her life-changing moment
growing their business to 135 offices in eight countries in five years, and selling the business
being so grateful for what the #AdvisoryBoard had done leading to spending five years researching testing and validating the advisory board sector globally
put everything on the line
using her personal experience as a great foundation for building this current business
be open and willing to seek advice
the different levels of #advice available #smeowners
picking the advice that is fit the purpose for the situation you're in, the period of time, the market
#informaladvice - getting advice instance from #familyandfriends, people who know you and love you and want the best from you. It's very supportive and they want the best, who knew personally.
the really important socialization of business owners - because it's lonely in business it's important to get out of our own bubble and socialize with other people that have this similar situation
why #Informaladvisoryboards is where the market has been - no one's paid, but generally they last for about six months and they kind of fizzle out
the unrealistic expectations of one person having the answer to everything about their business
as mentors and advisors being really careful about where the boundaries are - when should we provide advice and when we should stop when it starts getting outside about entering expertise or knowledge.
why #businessowners need to step up and do better #duediligence with regards to the way that they're evaluating their advisors - they're not all commodity providers
why you should interview them and make sure they are really curious about your business
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 2 - Lloyd Polkinghorne on how integral buying and running the local community newspaper was in his physical and emotional recovery from a traumatic injury sustained while working on his farm.
00:27:50
@LloydPolkinghorne was a #ricefarmer upuntil a #traumaticbraininjury caused by a mis-firing shotgun. After years of struggling physically and emotionally he needed to 'get back on the horse'. He did this by buying his local community newspaper www.thebridgenews.com.au . It was a bold and brave step. He made it with full support of family and an internal sense that he had to do something, knowing full well farming still wasn't an option.
In our discussion we cover;
the importance of having something meangingful to do
#Smallbusiness as a vehicle for physical and emotional recovery
the impact on an in individual when work is removed from their life #purpose
how the opportunity to buy the local #communitynewspaper brought purpose and the opportunity to represent the community he had grown up in
assessing the opportunity to take over the a business
how Lloyd’s #farming background taught him to be adaptable and think outside of the square which is what he had to do after his move into another profession
what Lloyd learnt during the process of buying; in particular the process of being tapped on the shoulder to take over the newspaper
the importance of having a good advisor during the process
the role small businesses, including the local newspaper, play in a community and how the paper gives community members something to enjoy that is incredibly important to their routine
how the local newspaper has become a key advocate for #ruralcommunities when it comes to state governments and electorates
addressing the challenges that can arise running a rural newspaper due to differing views across the community
balancing the #247newscycle that comes with running a newspaper and your personal life
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Sandy Chong CEO Australian Hairdressing Council and 2023 COSBOA Small Business Champion on pathways from a trade to business ownership.
00:45:07
@Sandy Chong brings 39 years experience as a salon owner to her current role as CEO at @The Australian Hairdressing Council. She's the current @cosboa #smallbusinesschampion and has multiple other board and advisory roles that involve advocacy and improving effectiveness for industry bodies.
Sandy sold her own salon during 2023 to focus on her CEO role. In that role she is actively involved in advocating for small businesses and shaping the future of the industry. Her extensive background as a business owner gives her valuable insights to guide those aspiring to venture into entrepreneurship and business ownership after completing their trade apprenticeships.
In our discussion we talk about;
the crucial role industry bodies play in supporting and advocating for small businesses
the importance of education and training in helping #apprentices become skilled professionals, and then business owners
how vital apprenticeships are for the growth and sustainability of industries
why small businesses, like hairdressing salons, have such a significant impact on the community and contribute to people's self-esteem and mental wellness
nurturing and developing homegrown talent
navigating the impact of Government Regulations on hairdressers
addressing #skillshortages and Workforce Sustainability in trades
what she learnt running a salon with up to 45 staff (all but 1 apprenticed by Sandy!) over 39 years
shedding light on the unique challenges and opportunities within the hairdressing industry
inspiring entrepreneurs in the trades industry
I think hairdressers often give back and I think that's one thing that really stands out for me, is they have really incredible business structures. They're incredibly generous to their staff, but it's the community generosity. - Sandy Chong
Visit the Australian Hairdressing Council website at www.ahc.org.au to learn more about the organization and its initiatives.
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:12 - Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast Michael Ker introduces the Small Business Banter podcast and its relevance to business owners, especially those looking to sell or buy a new business. He emphasizes the stress, emotions, and challenges involved in these processes.
00:01:21 - Sandy Chong's Background and Role Sandy Chong shares her extensive background as the CEO of the Australian Hairdressers Council and her experience as a past salon owner for 39 years. She highlights the importance of developing relationships with clients and the unique challenges of the hairdressing industry.
00:07:20 - Career Opportunities in Hairdressing Discussion on the potential career opportunities in the hairdressing industry, including the potential for financial success, international work, and diverse roles beyond salon ownership. Emphasis on the importance of education and training for career growth.
00:09:50 - Apprenticeship and Business Ownership Sandy Chong reflects on her commitment to apprenticing her staff and the importance of finding the right buyer for her salon. She discusses the need for a pathway to guide talented practitioners toward business ownership and the challenges of running a business.
00:14:59 - Industry Support and Sustainability Sandy Chong emphasizes the role of industry associations in educating and supporting business owners, particularly in navigating complex issues such as industrial relations and HR. The importance of belonging to an association for access to industry-specific information and support is highlighted.
00:16:25 - Migration Review and Industry Concerns Sandy discusses the release of the migration review and expresses concern for the hairdressing industry's exclusion due to high sponsorship costs. She highlights the industry's need for sustainability and lower tismet.
00:17:37 - Challenges and Solutions for the Industry Sandy addresses the skill shortage in the predominantly female hairdressing industry and emphasizes the importance of investing in apprenticeships and adapting to the changing preferences of younger workers. She also mentions the potential benefits of new jobs and skills councils.
00:19:38 - Encouraging School-Based Apprenticeships Sandy discusses the potential of school-based apprenticeship programs and the benefits of group training organizations for higher completion rates. She also highlights the challenges faced by single operator salons and the financial barriers for young people entering the industry.
00:21:41 - Financial Management and Small Business Challenges The conversation shifts to the financial challenges faced by small business owners, particularly in managing cash flow, profit and loss, and the complexities of industrial relations. Sandy emphasizes the need for education and support in understanding basic finances and business value.
00:32:01 - The Value of Small Businesses in Communities Sandy and the host highlight the vital role of small businesses, including hairdressing, in supporting community well-being and mental health. They emphasize the personal and social aspects of the hairdressing experience, going beyond just a haircut.
00:33:05 - Passion for Small Business and Cosboa Small Business Champion Award Sandy Chong discusses her deep passion for small business and receiving the Cosboa Small Business Champion Award in April. She highlights her role as an ambassador and her commitment to lobbying and advocacy work for small businesses.
00:35:36 - Driving Force behind Small Business Ownership Sandy Chong shares her motivation for becoming a small business owner, emphasizing the inclusivity and culture of the hairdressing industry. She also discusses her desire to be a successful business person and contribute to the industry through education and training.
00:37:01 - The Mindset of Small Business Owners The conversation delves into the mindset of small business owners, highlighting their humble beginnings, lack of strategic planning, and the drive to seize opportunities. The discussion also touches on the purpose, financial benefits, and challenges of small business ownership.
00:40:38 - Small Business Heroes and Inspirational Figures Sandy Chong mentions several inspirational figures in the hairdressing industry, recognizing their ethical standards, charitable work, and community generosity. She emphasizes the impact of these individuals on the industry and their ability to inspire the next generation of small business owners.
00:43:22 - Reaching Out to Sandy Chong Sandy Chong provides information on how to reach out to her as the CEO of the Australian Hairdressing Council and the current small business champion. She encourages individuals to visit the council's website and emphasizes her accessibility for inquiries and support.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Bill Lang from Small Business Australia on learning from other business owners and getting all 3 levels of government to better understand small business.
It started in the #foodvan industry with Doctor Dog, selling hot dogs outside of nightclubs and pubs in Melbourne in the 1980's.
But more recently the businesses he's involved with are all about helping (including coaching and mentoring) owners;
better use the internet
better use digital tools to attract customers
attract staff, and
run their businesses more efficiently.
In our wide-ranging discussion we cover;
why small business is bigger than jobs and being the economic backbone that we hear politicians spout
small business owners are the hearts and souls of their local communities (and not the big companies)
why politicians really do not understand what makes small business people tick
why it's his concern that big business gets looked after (a number of them have quite anti-competitive tactics that drive many, many small businesses out of town)
how we're now competing with millions and millions of competitors, unlike pre-internet times
turning the in-depth research from business owners across the country into particular policy initiatives and requests for governments at all three levels
incentives to get people to buy local and support local businesses
why if you've never sent an invoice and then had to chase it up, you don't really understand what it's like to be in business for yourself and your family
why the best business advisors are other people in business
why it's wrong to believe the best way to learn is by making mistakes - the better way to learn is by learning from other people's mistakes and thats what you can learn from other business owners that might be a few years older, maybe in different industries
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
why you need an #exitplan and why you need to start as early as you possibly can to avoid what we would call an #involuntarysuccession
how the older you get statistically, it is much much more likely that you'll have an involuntary succession
the 5 major steps in effective succession planning process;
Identify what value you've got in the business. So, you know, what's it worth? What are the gaps?
How do you protect that value? Because the issue with most small businesses is that if the founder and owner aren't there, the business either will fail to grow or won't be there now, they're out of business.
Maximize the value in the business. And you need time to do that. There are often things, in fact, almost inevitably things which can get tied up to make the business more valuable and more likely to be successful. What's important in life to you? And what do you actually want to do, that you don't have time to do at the moment. And then beginning to do some experiments and free up time to do that, creates if you like, an alternate vision of the future for the owner
The #exitevent - the #liquidityevent or the transaction
How do you manage the value?
How business owners get sort of really head down bum up in the business, working in, rather than on the business
How to actually get people trained, and recruited, and upskilled to take over some of the roles that the owner would currently have
creating what we call an #ownershipmindset and the tools needed to allow them to improve the processes and upskill themselves
creating #financialrewards and linking them back to these staff that can become minority owners through the business
creating a wealth business at 50 years old with partners that were in their 40's and 30's or like 20's and actually building in the succession planning for the partners that I chose.
Why often the answers are almost always in the business - in the staff, and freeing them up to actually understand and be able to provide those answers
progressive exits - creating an environment where the owner doesn't necessarily need to get out in one hit, they can stay involved which can be good for them, can be good for the team buying in and all the benefits that brings;
team taking more responsibility
freeing the owner from stuff they don't like doing
prolonging their time in the business
keeping wisdom in the business longest, which works for the business and also for the owner.
Michael Kerr: Hi. It's Michael Kerr here, presenting Small Business Banter.
A healthy micro and small business sector mean a successful economy and a more vibrant society. Small Business Banter is about helping regional business owners better prepare for current challenges, but also for the next stage of business success. I'm Michael Kerr, founder of Kerr Capital, advises business owners.
Each week, I interview a fellow small business owner or an expert and they share their stories, their lived experiences, the wins and the losses, and their best advice, to help you the listener get the most you can form your own business.
Small Business Banter is brought to you from the studios of 104.7 Gippsland FM and is heard across Australia on the community radio network. And thanks also to Kerr Capital, supporters of the show.
So, welcome! This morning to another edition of Small Business Banter radio and podcast, great to have in this morning Philip Volk.
Morning, Philip!
Philip: Yeah. Michael, good to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Michael: It's excellent. I'm really looking forward to our discussion on succession planning or exit planning for SME owners, which you're doing a lot of work in. But, if you wouldn't mind, just to set the scene, give us a little bit about your currently run full businesses, and a succession planning business is a key one of those. But if you could give us a little bit of a rundown on your background to set us up and then we'll get ripped, get into a discussion on succession planning.
Philip: Definitely. Thanks, Michael.
Look, I grew up in the country. My dad started as an apprentice printer and ended up managing. And then, building some of the biggest printing companies in Australia, so I guess the sort of business gene was inherited. I started my first business when I was 16. It was a business called Phim Foam, imaginatively named as a conjunction of my name, Philip, and my friend's name Tim. We cut blanks of foam, which we got from Franklin Caravans, and to packing for the local tool and dye making company. And to set the business up, we had an old door and a couple of bits of pine and some nichrome wire. And Tim's dad was the city engineer so we were able to on weekends, get the battery charge of the truck battery charger from the local Council Depot to make the nichrome wire hot and then we cut the foam. So that was my first business.
Michael: Excellent. And now you've got four.
Philip: Yeah, looks like it. For a while, I joined the army. Went a lot about people, that leadership, about process, about management, had no real commercial experience. Probably the most commercial thing I did was an oddity Wine Cellar in the officer's mess. And, I spent 20 years in the army and it was a really actually a very, very good background for the sorts of stuff that I do now. I really learned a lot about people and, you know, start from leading soldiers to talking to generals. Yeah, and the businesses I know now are actually all-around wealth, but not that, that means necessarily in a money sense. Actually mean, you know, wealth in terms of what are you getting out of like, so.
Michael: Just give us a quick, you know rundown on the three of them because they're all the other than the succession planning one because they're all quite related.
Philip: Yeah, so probably the [inaudible] that I've been in the longest is a business called Verizon's wealth where personal Wealth Advisors. The way we describe that, is we cost you the dreams of about 350 families, and we help them to dream again and then connect their money with their dreams. Another business is a back-office business for financial planning business is in Sri Lanka. So, that came out of a mentoring relationship I had with a young fellow that worked for me, in one of our businesses and he went back to Sri Lanka and wanted me to help him and get that started. So that's, you know, a successful business was in that for about 10 years.
I've been coaching businesses for about 15 years, so, coached several hundred businesses. Mostly in the financial planning and accounting space, but latterly in other areas as well. And then there's the succession planning business. So, we found that when we were coaching businesses, we were doing a lot of succession planning, and then so we joined with succession plus. So, succession plus is a national organization and the fastest growing and probably the most prominent succession-focused business in Australia.
Michael: Yeah, I agree with that a lot. I tracked them closely and know them and then now she knows you well. Yeah, they're doing a terrific job of leading the charge and it is the area of succession planning for small businesses is one that gets quite a bit of, I guess negative attention, in a sense, because a lot of owners by most of the stats that coming out, haven't really got around to doing formal or timely succession planning. So is that a fair assessment of them?
Philip: That's absolutely right. Yeah, that's absolutely right. So the majority of business owners don't deliberately succeed out of their businesses, mostly it's accidental. Yeah, and so what tends to happen is they get so wrapped up and we know how small business owners working think we are that. So, we now have passionately got about how businesses and it becomes a part of our identity. And so, a lot of small business owners, can't even conceive of what is it that I'm going to do when I stop doing this. So, yeah, there's a lot of businesses. They don't succession plan, and the way in which the succession happens is not always a great experience for the owner or for the staff, all the clients.
Michael: Yeah. It's a terrible experience, you know when it's completely unplanned. So there are a couple of things you mentioned there. One of which is owners, and we love the small businesses that's why we do this program to bring more quality experts and perspectives on small businesses, but people get very caught up in the day-to-day. So it's understandable that starting a succession plan can look like another major project and you know, something to put off until tomorrow, but also this idea of identity and what do I do afterward.
I think that's a particularly important one because, for a lot of owners who have been in businesses for 20 or 30 years, it very much defines them. And you understand why, you know, the thought of not having that in your life can be another reason to say, "Well look, I'll get to that later".
Philip: Yeah, yeah, it will come. You know, if you bring it back to something that we should all be doing. But many of us done, is actually having our own estate plan. Your own will, and it's snowing, I'm here for a long time. It's, and it's actually difficult for me to think about, or conceive of me not being here. And by actually, having to do your own personal estate planning, that actually brings it front and center. And I think that's the same for small business owners. If I don't address it, and I don't think about it then it's not a problem. But it becomes a problem.
Michael: Yeah, it does. What would you be saying to those owners listening in, that are thinking about succession planning? What's like a, you know, could you draw on some experience of those accidental or unplanned exits that really hit home for you here. Where the owner perhaps they look, if I had my time again, I'd do something.
Philip: Yeah, yeah. Let's take the positive step as, you know, we work in both the personal wealth space but also the succession business wealthy to like business planning. And whenever someone does some financial advice where the predominant thing I'll start afterward is two things. Firstly, do I'm really relieved, I've got a plan. And secondly, I wish I've done that ten years earlier. And I think that translates really well into the small business space as well. You need a plan and you need to start as early as you possibly can, or you're going to end up in an involved, what we would call an involuntary succession. So, the older you get statistically, it is much much more likely that you'll have an involuntary succession.
One of the businesses we're working with, at the moment. One of the partners in the financial advice business. He is 85 and then there's a whole bunch of changes happening in the regulatory environment. And he was not wanting to be a part of any sort of succession plan because he saw himself as the business. So yeah. Start earlier was the big mess burning.
Michael: Yeah, start early. Can you talk about just at a high level for the minute, what's involved in a succession plan? And I'm assuming we can use the term exit planning, you know, interchangeably with succession planning, I've only got two technical [inaudble].
Philip: Mind if I describe the sort of process the succession planning process if it's done properly. And then a part of that is the exit planning. So, the first, no let's just talk about five sorts of major steps. Firstly, you've got to identify what value you've got in the business. So, you know, what's it worth? What are the gaps? And then secondly, it's how do you protect that value? Because the issue with most small businesses is that if the founder and owner aren't there, the business either will fail to grow or won't be there now, they're out of business. So that's about protecting the value, so they're risking a business by actually creating using the resources that are in the business or bringing resources in so that the business continues independently of the owner.
Michael: Yeah. I think that's, you know, in a practical sense it's in the work I do. It's the biggest single factor. What happens when the owner leaves the business.
Philip: It's a really good comment. I'll say it a ton of times again. And in my own business is, over the last four or five years being very deliberate about recruiting and training people. And you know, the training in business is not that difficult the thing which most of them don't get is leadership training, so training them how to be better leaders. So first step, we said, was to identify the value, what's its worth. Second, is protect the value and then it's how do you maximize the value in the business. And you need time to do that. There are often things, in fact, almost inevitably things which can get tied up to make the business more valuable and more likely to be successful.
Michael: Which is one of the reasons why when we say, and we both know, from a lot of experience that you need time to properly succession plan. And one of them, one of the key reasons is, you know, there's that you go through all the steps that you're partway through but, you often see where things can be improved or need to be fixed before it's sellable. So that's, that's just why that you can't just flip it around in a month, we're talking years. We need to do it well and properly.
Philip: Yeah, look. And the sooner you start the better off. And the wealth business that I started, I was 50 when we started. Then I have partners that were in their 40's and 30's or like 20's. So I actually built the succession planning for the partners that I chose. I chose them not just for their ages, but also for their character and the fact that we actually liked each other and we're able to work together. So, we have in that business, you know, always have a succession plan and an hour working towards executing that. So, yeah.
Michael: That's the foresight. There is, you know, is quite striking me as it, you know, starting a business and having in mind, you know, where it might go. I mean, I think that in an ideal world, that would be what everybody does. But most typically I expect you are dealing with owners who have found themselves in business and have gotten 20, 25 years down the track and, you know, are looking at doing other things.
Philip: And pretty typically in that sort of business usually end up with the owner, sort of the right-hand end of the scale in terms of experience and impact. And then he's got a bunch of people working for him. But there's a pretty significant gap often between the owner and the people that are working for him or her. And because I haven't done the leadership training in the development of those people to actually create the next generation of leaders in their business, and you need to be deliberate about that. That's a part of you know, protecting the value. De-risking business is making sure that the rubber band between the owner and the people, you know, actually doing the work in the business, what might still work in the business is not stretched too far.
Michael: Yeah. I expect also probably that you're, the work you do with on leadership is partly about getting owners ready to make that leap themselves and mentoring, and letting go.
Philip: Yeah, yeah. Well, that's right. But I think those conversations are actually really well executed by financial advisors. So that's the financial advisor that's saying to the tasking that, you know, the business owner. What's important in life to you? And what do you actually want to do, that you don't have time to do at the moment. And then beginning to do some experiments and free up time to do that, creates if you like, an alternate vision of the future for the owner.
Michael: Yeah, these sparks something. By the way, on today's edition of Small Business Banter radio, we're talking with Philip Volk from amongst other things, a partner in succession plus. Philip, you are just about to, I think jump into one another of your steps in the process.
Philip: Yeah. I might just give an outline of the five steps and then we'll put exit planning sort of in context. So, we've spoken about identifying value. How much is the business worth, and what are the gaps in it? Protecting the value. How do we actually cover some of those gaps? What are those gaps that we need to cover? So, maximizing the value, it's a continuation of protecting the value. So it's identifying how much does the individual business owner needs to get out of the business. And how do we cover that gap between, what it's currently worth? And what he needs or she needs to actually get out of it financially, and then that can drive some of the different exit strategies that we might have.
The fourth one is, really whether if you like the exit event occurs, which is the extract values, so as the liquidity event or the transaction. And then the fifth one, is how do you manage the value? So, sort of two sides to that manage the value in the existing business, if the owner stay is partially in it, but also manage the personal wealth that has been derived from the extraction event or the exit.
Michael: In your experiences are most businesses able to be improved with the right time and advice?
Philip: Yeah, absolutely. What happens is as business owners, we get sort of really head down bum up in the business will spend a lot of time working in, rather than on the business. I know that seems glib but we find that most owners are actually blind to some of the things that can, that can be done reasonably simply to improve the value of the business. And the challenge is a lot of, a lot of those challenges are around. They're not thinking of what their alternative future is now. And how do I actually get people trained, and recruited, and upskill to take over some of the roles that the owner would currently have.
Michael: Yeah. It's quite fascinating. This, again it comes back to being so deeply involved in the business. The business is what it is to the owner at the time. And then, you know, you go through a process of selling, preparing the business, selling the business, and you find that often each buyer that comes in sees it very differently. They've got, they've got their own unique circumstances. And I think one of the case when you get to that phase of exiting out of the business selling it, it's understanding that how you see your business could be quite different to the value it might bring two different cons of buyers. It astounds me every time.
Philip: Yeah. Well, you've seen it a lot, haven't you? I think one of the things to which we get great joy out of ours, when we see some sort of internal succession or a part of the succession is actually internal. You may have another investor or owner coming in, but by actually working with the staff in the business, creating what we call an ownership mindset, helping them to understand. How do I think and act like an owner? What are the tools that we've put in place to allow them to improve the processes and upskill themselves? And what are the financial rewards and how do we link those financial rewards from the business back to these staff that can become minority owners through the business? And we've got various structures we can use to do.
Michael: Yeah. It gets, I think it's a real trend in from the owners perspective. And that is a key team of staff, are natural buyer of the business. You cut out a lot of things that you would go through if you had to sell externally. But you introduce that, you know a different set of issues. And you know, the one that was particularly interesting is this owner mindset and it's one thing to be a really excellent employee, but another to continue to be that. And take on, you know, put another hat on it's the owner at risk, you know, if the business...
Philip: When you sort of dive into businesses, you start coaching, consulting coaching, and consulting with them. And you often find that the answers are, almost always find that the answers for the problems are in the business. The answers are in the staff and it's freeing them up to actually understand and be able to provide those answers. And for the owner to be able to do something with them, one of them, there's a series of steps, what we call a ladder to equity, where, you know, you might have bonus and some profit share. And then, at the top in, some of the staff actually owning the business either directly or through an employee share ownership plan, which is a very, very tax-effective way of transferring control, some control, or all control. So the all types some time but transferring control and for the owner to actually get their money out of all the money that they need out of the business.
Michael: And, does that create an environment where the owner doesn't necessarily need to get out in one hit, they can stay involved which can be good for them, can be good for the team buying in.
Philip: To start on, that's exactly what happened. So as the team takes more responsibility, the owner, and often what they give up his stuff they don't like doing. And so what we found is that the business actually continues to accelerate its growth because the owner is focused on stuff that they do like doing. They prolong their time in the business but it's often the real value-adding stuff, the rain-making side of things. So finding new clients and that sort of thing that if they're not having to do all of the processing or manufacturing type work, they've got other people doing that. It keeps their wisdom in the business longest, which works for the business and also for the owner.
Michael: It's a bit taking a step away and looking at what the business needs by way of employees. And if you can relieve, you know, focus any individual employee on what they're best at their business, you know, benefits.
Philip: That's what talked a lot about internal succession. And that's absolutely one of the ways to go. But there's also external succession, but there's also a mix where you can actually do some internal succession so that the business can be run, what we would call under management. So someone could come in and invest in the business as an investor, or as an owner-operator. But the key staff are actually tied in and that's a good way of actually doing it through an employee share ownership plan or some sort of equity plan.
Michael: Okay. All right. What are your couple, top tips for right now we're in challenging times. Is that really making a difference to the way businesses are selling, or is it still about getting on with your succession planning?
Philip: There's a couple of things happening. In current times, the created headwinds for some businesses inspire others. So business we're working with which runs major events or provides the infrastructure and support for major events or that it's obviously a real challenge for them at the moment. And that they're unable to actually, you know, run those events. Whereas there are other businesses, for example, a textiles business, which provides suppliers for people making quilts, which has just gone gangbusters. So, the businesses of, you know it's, there's not a lot in the middle it's either going really well or not so well. Well, it's also done and this tends to happen in economic downturns. Now when there's another set of stresses on the business, those business owners to a bit getting towards closer to the end than the beginning also could have enough of this, we need to find a way to get out of here. But, you know, what you don't want to do is run out of puff as a business owner and have the market choose the time. All these for there to be an involuntary succession because firstly, you know, you're unlikely to get what the business is really worth to you. And secondly, it's not as likely to be a successful succession term of business continuing.
Michael: Yeah, so you can see why it just needs time. And I'd encourage all, you know, all the owners listening in to, you know, to take that in because there's a lot that can be done with good advice and time. Which, in terms of succession planning, as a profession is quite unique, you know, it's emerging strongly. Succession Plus is, you know, doing a great job. So, one thing I've always found is for owners, you know, pick your advisors well. You know, it's not, succession planning, selling a business exit planning is not a routine or, you know, the people that do that kind of work and the best ones do it all the time and do it for their own living. So, and just be mindful of that.
Philip, we're unfortunately, out of time. Thank you so much for your time today. I think that's incredibly instructional and you've laid out for us and owners, you know, a pretty compelling case to, you know, to start the process. So I really appreciate your time.
Philip: Thanks, Michael. And just, you know, biggest tip for business owners is get started on your succession plan and do it early as early as you possibly can.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. And if you look, by all means, shout out they, you know, if they wanted to, you know, make contact with you. It's successionplus.com.
Philip: Yeah. So my business partner and I, Vicki Massey, and myself, Philip Volk, we're very, very happy to have a chat with you and just see where you're at and what we can do. Find someone that you've got chemistry with, you know the one you can trust because it's a journey, also, find someone that does this a lot. You only get one chance to save your business.
Michael: Yeah, to do it properly. So, that's a great way to finish. Thanks again for your time, Philip.
Philip: Good on you, Michael. Thanks very much for the opportunity. Thank you!
Michael: So that is all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired, bringing your small business experts and other small business owners and hearing their stories. Do you want to listen to any past episode? Jump onto your podcast platform of choice and search Small Business Banter. There, you will find a diverse and fascinating collection of small business owners and experts, openly discussing and sharing their experiences. For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today, or to contact me. Please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com, or you can find us on Facebook and Instagram. And it would be great to have you tuned in the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.
[END]
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
His focus is to look beyond the compliance (#BAS #GST and #annualreporting) to really drill in on the numbers, look at how the business is performing and how you can make it perform better. He's all about helping #businessowners and #CFOs get more intelligent, efficient, and reliable with their accounts.
servicing businesses remotely and the advantages that brought to him;
bringing a broader team, and a
broader range of skills to help businesses,
his approach to understanding clients' businesses and having #empathy for their workweek, and trying to make finance really pain-free how he designs and delivers his 2 service offerings
the opportunity for #bookkeepers to prompt owners with "how they should be thinking about running their business differently or changing things"
the opportunity for business owners who have bookkeepers who they really like and appreciate, and who know their businesses, to invite them to potentially go on that journey
the 2 lenses to think of when looking at your finance numbers.
Historical - when doing that, it's really helpful to break down the numbers and understand where for example the income is coming from, then break that down and work out what products or services are profitable. There should be some trend analysis on spending, and definitely some ratio analysis. The big cost for most businesses are wages, rent, and stock, if it's a stock selling business, and if we're really understanding margins.
Forward focused - you definitely need to have an understanding of what's gone in the past, but I think it's best to start with an understanding of the #businessstrategy of the business
the need for businesses to understand where its big costs are, and focus on those - there is usually only about 3 or 4 (wages to revenue, cost of goods sold to revenue, occupancy costs revenue)
having a view that, "Well, our clients outsource their accounts' work to us, so we're not going to, then, in turn, outsource the work to someone else." We wanted to make sure we were doing the work for our clients
staying very close to those staff. Just because they're offshore, I think you should have the mindset that they're in the room with you.
recognising that they're very much a part of our team meetings that we have, essentially, workshops, off-sites with the
Michael Kerr: Hi, it's Michael Kerr here, presenting Small Business Banter.
A healthy micro and small business sector means a successful economy and a more vibrant society. Small Business Banter is about helping regional business owners better prepare for current challenges, but also for the next stage of business success.
I'm Michael Kerr, founder of Kerr Capital, advisors to business owners.
Each week, I interview a fellow small business owner or an expert, and they share their stories, their lived experiences, the wins and the losses, and their best advice to help you, the listener, get the most you can from your own business.
Small Business Banter is brought to you from the studios of 104.7 Gippsland FM and is heard across Australia on the Community Radio Network. Thanks also to Kerr Capital, supporters of the show.
Okay. Welcome into another edition of Small Business Banter radio. Really great to have in Michael Kent, who's the CFO and founder of Slate Accounts, bookkeeping and financial advisory firm.
Firstly, welcome Michael.
Michael Kent: Thanks, Michael. Thanks for having me on the show, it's good to be here.
Michael Kerr: Yeah, looking forward to chatting to you about what you do and how you help business owners. You're based in Melbourne, your business has about 20 bookkeepers and accountants servicing clients, and you can talk a little bit more about that.
You didn't start as a bookkeeper, you started as a chartered accountant. You founded this business and you're really about helping business owners and CFOs to get more intelligent, efficient, and reliable with their accounts. I'll get you to introduce yourself shortly.
In terms of today's discussion, what we're really wanting to do is draw on your current experience in the business you run to help owners think about how they can improve their business performance from bookkeeping and the output, which is management accounts, and so forth, also, I guess, opening the door to bringing in your bookkeeper as one of your really trusted advisors. That's the broad theme, but anyway, welcome, Michael. Give us a couple of minutes on your background, please.
Michael Kent: Thanks, Michael. Well, I didn't follow a traditional accounting route. From a young age, I reckon I had a great interest in business, generally. I ended up studying Accounting, but also Law as a general Business degree.
Michael Kerr: A lot of people do that. Yeah.
Michael Kent: Yeah. It was good, it was interesting. When I left uni, I didn't work for a law firm or accounting firm, I went into more entrepreneurial pursuits. I actually went to Hanoi for a couple years and worked for an advisory practice there and ended up running a water company there, and then came back and tried to get an IT start up going for a few years, then took a real job in corporate land, which was, terrifically, I learned heaps for that period of my career, working in really quite general commercial roles. I ended up in consulting, but always with a view to starting my own business at one point. I suppose, the idea around Slate Accounts, I saw Cloud software coming and changing things. I thought that could be a good opportunity there. It seemed like finance was going to be deshackled[?] from the best in the computer running in my OB[?], and that it would be possible to service businesses remotely. In doing so, you could bring a broader team and a broader range of skills to help businesses, and that was the idea. I think it worked. We now have 25 staff, 10 in Australia, and 15 of those are in an office we have in Jaipur, India, that works really well for us. We can get into it if you're interested [crosstalk].
Michael Kerr: Well, we'll certainly talk about your experience of outsourcing later.
Michael Kent: Yeah. We've been going since 2012. [crosstalk] We started off general bookkeeping, looking after anyone that came along. These days, we probably don't take on slightly smaller businesses that we may have in the past. With the staff that we have, we find it slightly better at working with slightly bigger businesses, 2 million in turnover, or plus.
In terms of how we think of our service, we think of it as 2 service offerings. One is Financial Control Services, where we run the nuts and bolts of a business' accounts function. We pay their staff, pay their bills, send invoices. We have another service offering called Financial Insight Services where we advise clients and really focus on using numbers to help them understand their business, [crosstalk] grow their business, and improve their performance, I suppose.
Michael Kerr: Yeah. I think that's the underappreciated or underutilized area of bookkeeping, that ability to look past the compliance that you need to do your best in GST returns and accounts, but also really drilling in on those numbers to look at how your business is performing and how you can make it perform better, potentially.
Michael Kent: Yeah. Potentially because of my background, we do compliance really well, but it's never really been a particular focus within our culture. We're really focused on systems and processes to make that work well and to make sure it's accurate, but our interest is really, we talk a lot about having an understanding of our clients' business and having an empathy for their work week, and trying to make finance really pain-free, but also bring value, I suppose.
Michael Kerr: Yeah. Do you see that there is maybe an association between bookkeeping and compliance, and not with the next level of driving your business to become more profitable?
Michael Kent: There is, but that's changing.
Michael Kerr: Right.
Michael Kent: I reckon it's possibly because the technology over the last 10 years has taken away most of the data entry, if not all. Ten years ago, there really wasn't a role that was essentially a data entry role, and that's a skill set. People who are good and interested in doing that will have a certain skill set, but that's been removed [crosstalk] with modern technology, so it means people who are really focused on that can now actually provide that service really well and efficiently for probably far more people, and that can be great. They can do it probably cheaper and better, but for a lot of people who may have been doing that work and new businesses that have come in to finance and bookkeeping, we have the space, data, and technology to really add value, so that's become a focus.
I find that classic stereotype of the bookkeeper, it is sort of passing. Typically, businesses that come to me are not looking for that. They know that the world's moved on, and even small, freelance bookkeepers out there, and there's thousands of them, are now pretty focused on things beyond data entry [crosstalk] and the classic stereotype.
Michael Kerr: Yeah, okay. The opportunity's here, the data gets exported out of your bank account, so it's a matter of shaping it and using it. Is that really up for the business owner to demand that or drive that, or you're just saying that bookkeeping, generally, is becoming more savvy and more of a trusted advisor in taking information to clients and saying, "Look, you should be thinking about running your business differently or changing things"?
Michael Kent: I reckon there'll be a full spectrum out there and plenty of businesses will have bookkeepers, who, perhaps, not bringing that mindset and not necessarily thinking to bring that value. In many cases. I think that there's an opportunity for business owners who have bookkeepers who they really like and appreciate, and who know their businesses, to invite them to potentially go on that journey, if they hadn't necessarily thought of it proactively.
Michael Kerr: What would be practical examples where there's an opportunity for either the owner or the bookkeeper to say, "Look, this information here is telling me my business is performing at this level, but I want to change it, or I need to change that." What would be examples of information that you could use to spark something different in the business?
Michael Kent: Well, there are 2 lenses to think of, looking at your finance numbers. One is looking at them historically. When doing that, it's really helpful to break down the numbers and understand where the income is coming from.
Michael Kerr: So, not yet. You often see revenue of $2 million, but it might be one client, it might be 50 clients, it might be 3 products or 3 services, or 50 products and services.
Michael Kent: Yup.
Michael Kerr: Is that the kind of stuff where you go? [crosstalk] Drill into this. It's not just one top line of revenue of $2 million. That works for compliance, right?
Michael Kent: Absolutely. On the base[?] statement. that's all they're interested in, [crosstalk] but it's really helpful to break that down and work out what products or services are profitable. It's really common for businesses to discover with a bit of analysis that, in fact, they're putting a lot of effort into a service or product that's not profitable. In analyzing historical numbers, it should definitely be around focusing on product or service profitability, or for service companies that might be around, for a project profitability. There should be some trend analysis on spending, and definitely some ratio analysis. The big cost for most businesses are wages, rent, and stock, if it's a stock selling business, and if we're really understanding margins.
Merely looking at a P&L on a balance sheet won't necessarily bring that out, depending on how they're structured, so encouraging a bookkeeper or a finance advisor to help a business owner pull that apart and understand those things is really valuable.
Michael Kerr: Yeah. [crosstalk] The historical piece is just outlined, and you were just about to go on, I think, to the second part of it.
Michael Kent: Yeah. Well, beyond that, we think that if you're going to get the most out of your finance function, it should really be forward focused. You definitely need to have an understanding of what's gone in the past, but I think it's best to start with an understanding of the strategy of the business. It doesn't need to be complex. It can be really simple. The finance function should really understand, what are the goals of this business? What's it trying to achieve? In many cases, that initial understanding of historically, what's going on, is the place to start, because that will tell you, "Well, we're doing great, but we do need to improve our margins," or, "We do need to drop our wage costs," or, "This is a sleeping service, but we could probably sell twice as much of this particular service line or product line," and that will inform the strategy. Once it's understood, "Okay, the next 12 months, we're going to try and do these 3 things," then working with the finance function or the bookkeeper to decide, "What could we measure and report on as we go through the year that would inform our progress against those goals?" That's the gold, deciding what we're trying to do, and how we're going to measure progress, and then getting that bookkeeper to go away and work out how they can get that measured and bring to the business owner a concise, succinct, simple report so they can get regular feedback on their progress towards those goals.
Michael Kerr: Yeah, okay. I want to come straight back to the quality of your chart of accounts because that's where it all starts.
On today's edition of Small Business Banter radio, we're chatting with Michael Kent, who's the founder and CEO of Slate Account. We'll shout out that website at the end, Michael.
I love the way you've described that there's the finance function or booklist court[?], bookkeeping, account keeping. You can get a lot more out of the information that's going into the the system, historical analysis of profitability, et cetera, tying it to where you want to go, I think, the next level, because otherwise, you just go along and you don't know whether you're getting to somewhere, you don't know where that somewhere is, in terms of something that's measurable and achievable, but I imagine that when you are working with a client, all of that information rolls up into a set of accounts, and they're typically listed from the expenses from A to Z, accounting fees at the top and wages at the bottom and [crosstalk].
I do a lot of work with management accounts and small business, and that layout isn't particularly helpful, so you've got to reformat that information, but also, I wonder how often there's a tendency just to shove expenses into categories, because you want to get your compliance done, but you're missing an opportunity to perhaps, really feed that information in the first place into categories, expenses that are much more relevant for doing this analysis talking about.
Michael Kent: Yep. It's very common to have an A to Z chart of accounts, and it really is a massive lost opportunity. It's important for a businesses to understand where its big costs are, and focus on those. Counter-intuitively, we often say when reviewing financial statements, don't look at a statement, actually. Our typical reports will be more chart-based, and in most businesses, the costs that really matter. There's only about 3 or 4, and we prefer to present those in a chart that shows the trend over time and show us a ratio of those things, typically to revenue that that's where the business is thinking, wages to revenue, cost of goods sold to revenue, occupancy costs revenue, if real estate's a big part of the business. We then normally present your classic profit-loss statement that lists the accounts by month, almost as an appendix, because the B items are normally, there's only 4 or 5 of them, and you want to see what's happening as a trend over time.
Michael Kerr: Yeah. If you're going to shift the performance of the business, you don't need to focus on 55 different expense accounts if it's 3 or 4, as you say, that always can [crosstalk] steer you to wages, rent, and so forth.
Michael Kent: That's right. Someone should have a look at them. A good bookkeeper will take a look and make sure we're not doing something crazy with our phone expenses or our staff entertainment, but it's really not a sensible focus for a management meeting.
Michael Kerr: Yeah. You talked about the shift to Cloud accounting. Now, we have zero miled[?], I reckon, into it, I think.
Michael Kent: Yup.
Michael Kerr: Is it more or less compulsory? Can you get around your compliance obligations just by continuing to use Excel always, or is the value coming out of an online subscription or a subscription to one of those service providers really worth it?
Michael Kent: Absolutely. Excel is just so much harder, more time consuming, and more complex. The thing about the new Cloud accounting software is the getting the data from the banks is the game changer. You fill in a form to give the bank permission to send this company the data, and then over time, you can teach the software to recognize things. If it's Telstra, it's a phone. If it's Caltex, it's fuel. If it says Stripe, that's income, and so on. Tallying it all up becomes very quick.
These days, running a bass[?], for example, it's all done with a couple of clicks, and now, you can lodge from directly inside the software. I just click a button and push it to the ATO. For smaller businesses, this software costs $25 a month, in some cases, less. [crosstalk]
Michael Kerr: Pretty strong, and indeed, it kind of gives you the opportunity and to start to do that analysis that you talked about, which is, "What am I trying to achieve? How am I going towards that?"
Look, I just wanted to rant through a couple of things in the last little while. Management accounts, for me, in the work I do, are the most critical piece of information. Now, when you're selling a business, what's happening last month, the last completed set of financial returns are usually 12 months old. What's happening? The quality of the management accounts, if I can call them that broadly, are so vital. I wanted to ask you, in terms of choosing a bookkeeper or assessing how your current bookkeeper's going, what's your thoughts on that?
Michael Kent: Thinking first about that financial control function of the bookkeeper, getting the transactions entered, and getting bills paid, I think getting that done well is all about accurate, on time or faster, reducing risk, but also about delighting the customers of those business processes, so making sure your suppliers think you're a great company to sell to, your customers feel really good about your brand, and often, it's that finance person, the bookkeeper, who's representing you to the extent that's finance-related. I would be having conversations with prospective bookkeepers about how they might manage that and do that really well.
Michael Kerr: Yeah.
Michael Kent: I think the balance sheet is where a lot of bookkeepers might become unstuck. If I was interviewing a bookkeeper and had to choose one, I'd really go through my balance sheet with them and make sure they could explain. The key test here is, how would we check each of these balances, and make sure they're speaking in plain English, in a way that the business owner can really understand. I think that would set up the relationship really well.
We find in recruiting our staff, the number one indicator for whether they're going to succeed at Slate Accounts is actually, "Please describe yourself, in 160 words or less, outside of work," because it's a very human task these days. It's not about data entry.
The other thing to think about is about resignation proofing the function. It can be a real pain if your finance person or your bookkeeper leaves.
Michael Kerr: Yeah.
Michael Kent: I'd be having a chat to a bookkeeper about what backup they have and how those risks could be managed. I think that's really important, too.
Michael Kerr: Yeah, okay. As a business owner yourself, you've got a significant business. More than half are offshore, and you can offshore a lot of things, bookkeeping being one of them, professional services also. What's your experience that you'd share? You have been doing it for quite a long time. In terms of just generally outsourcing for business owners, what's your thoughts on that?
Michael Kent: We did it a little bit differently. I employed my first staff member in India in 2017, but I always took a very hands-on approach. It is possible to get online and find staff offshore, and do it all remotely, but long before we did this, we had the view that, "Well, our clients outsource their accounts' work to us, so we're not going to, then, in turn, outsource the work to someone else." We wanted to make sure we were doing the work for our clients.
Michael Kerr: Yeah, and responsible for it.
Michael Kent: Sure. Until COVID hit, until November '19, I was going to India 4 times a year, every quarter. I interviewed and recruited the first 5 staff. What's made it work? I mean, there's been a lot of change management. It had to happen across my Australian staff, and their roles have really evolved, and that's been great for them. It's a fun journey for everyone, but there's been a fair bit of work and care put into that. I think the key would be to stay very close to those staff. Just because they're offshore, I think you should have the mindset that they're in the room with you. Unfortunately, you just can't flip work over and expect it to come back. We're on calls and working on Skype and so forth with our staff all day, every day, and it works really well for us.
Michael Kerr: Yeah. Whilst it's offshore, they're employees the way you set it up. You want to see that quality delivered that you promised, so you can't just outsource and hope for the best.
Michael Kent: Yeah. For us, they're very much a part of our team meetings that we have, essentially, workshops, off-sites with them. That model works for us.
Michael Kerr: I've been involved in outsourcing, also. I think it's like any employee relationship. As you said at the very beginning, wages is a biggest cost for just about every business, and managing people is essential to getting the business right?
Michael, we're going to have to call it a wrap. I really appreciate your time and insight. I think it's a very progressive approach to bookkeeping and financial management. I think the message, very strongly, for me, that I'm hearing is that there is a role for your bookkeeper, outsourced, internal, as a trusted advisor, and really, to look beyond reducing tax, that annual cycle which has driven a lot of people in the past and a lot of accountants look past the compliance, and really look at it as a critically important part of the business to measure how you're tracking, and comparing that to where you're headed.
Thank you so much for your time today. Do you just want to shout out the website, and then we'll call it a wrap, Michael?
Michael Kent: Thanks, Michael. Yeah. We're at slateaccounts.com.au.
Michael Kerr: All right, excellent. You do, occasionally, write some excellent articles.
Michael Kent: Occasionally?
Michael Kerr: I mean, you only write them occasionally.
Michael Kent: I know. I'm going to work on it a little bit better there.
Michael Kerr: All right. Thanks [crosstalk], Michael, for your time today. Really appreciate it.
Michael Kent: Thanks, Michael. Good to see you.
Michael Kerr: That is all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired, bringing you small business experts and other small business owners, and hearing their stories.
Do you want to listen to any past episode? Jump onto your podcast platform of choice and search Small Business Banter. There, you will find a diverse and fascinating collection of small business owners and experts openly discussing and sharing their experiences.
For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today, or to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com, or you can find us on Facebook and Instagram. It would be great to have you tune in the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.
[END]
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ashley Darwen, founder of ADITS on developing a business culture to drive success.
00:27:52
Ashley Darwen is the founder of @ADITS, an #ITservicecompany run out of #Bowen in #Queensland. He started the business as a 20 year old, and now has 36 employees.
Born and bred in Bowen he started his business / working career when still in year 11 at the suggestion of a #teacher who thought he could be putting his efforts into something productive (because obviously, schoolwork wasn't going 100% to plan!).
He was offered a school-based traineeship and hasn't looked back.
In our discussion he talks about;
starting at a local high school one day a week, which then turned into two days a week and three days school then four
getting bored at 20 and then starting his own business
going home to his parents and saying yeah this is what I want to do and getting the support he wanted
not being so sure he would as supportive if his child came home and said the same thing now!!
the luck of having a supportive teacher that identified he had an aptitude
being a managed service provider
the services ADITS offers and the customers they work with , from a #startup or one or two employees to a large school or enterprise with 500
acting as a conduit between 300 vendors, it providers out there and the business
the importance of company culture in growing a one person business to 36 employees from Bowen in Queensland
understanding that for a service based business the greatest asset is your team, your people
his approach to hiring and the value of doing the last bit of the interview over lunch in an informal setting
the challenges with getting people (employees) to #remoteareas, a town of 10,000 people
The challenges of coming from a Metro area to a country town
having offices in #Townsville and Brisbane because you're not always get to find the skill set that you need or the people you need
how #COVID has brought everyone's attention to the fact that we actually can work from home now, where you can live in a, in a rural or regional location and still work for a metro company
first thing that we do is take an audit of their business as such to see what they've got from a technology point of view to, you know, to see what they've got.
the importance of sitting down with the business and understanding what they do, how they do it and then what their plan is in the next 12 to 24 months
the need to make sure is that from a technology perspective they have what is needed to scale in the next 12 to 24 months
businesses going online
businesses having a new appreciation for #technology and how, how they can benefit from using IT
why in terms of education for businesses the IT industry needs to get better at working with businesses to bridge that gap and to be that conduit and to help them through the journey
some of the risks and challenges emerging now for businesses - via data breaches, cybercrime
#Cybercrime as our biggest threat to technology at the moment
preventative IT solutions
#databreaches in Australia, 85% of them come from end users
exciting uses of technologies and businesses in the medical space or aged care space
the flexible work environment where people can work two days a week at home instead of commuting so they've got more time with their families.
Keys to success;
having a good team around you that share the same vision and are on the same page to make sure you know from an operational point of view that the business works well
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ted Allender from ERA Nurseries talks about the current state of the manuka honey industry
00:27:51
@TedAllender is a co-owner of ERA Nurseries. Born and raised in #Adelaide, he set up a nursery in Adelaide Hills in the mid-1970s, which operated for 20 years.
going to #NewZealand into 2014 and seeing how massive the industry and coming back thinking why aren't we doing this?
how all of a sudden #Manuka had become their most valuable native plant
how funnily #NZ wasn't saying that a couple of years before when it was considered a #noxiousplant - that they couldn't get rid of it, that spread once they started clearing the land.
the @LandlineTV program that ran in 2015 that posed the question 'why aren’t we doing something with it?' and that sent ERA's phones off and crashed the website
how the actual product is, is being used by militaries around the world and The @NationalHealthService in England uses it to treat wounds as it works where antibiotics don't work anymore
how #bioactive the very best Australian Leptospermum are
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Amy worked in HR for over a decade before taking over the Horizon Management Group, a #familybusiness her parents had started over 30 years ago, in 2018. At @horizonmg she works with clients to help them manage their people for the benefit of the people and for the business. Our real focus is on giving managers the skills to be able to manage their people well.
We talk about;
the importance of managing people who are in many cases the most important asset an owner has in their business
why people can be the most important asset in a business if they are the right people
how to #motivate and #engage them to deliver on what they need to be doing
how to ensure they enjoy what they're doing, so they keep on coming back and delivering that for your business and get that personal #satisfaction from their role as well
recognising that rewarding for performance is not just about monetary things, it's about the need of recognition which every human being requires, whether we want to admit it or not
the costs of getting HR wrong and the benefits of actually investing some time and energy in managing that performance and satisfaction of their staff
the complexities of managing staff with pandemic fuelled, changing #businessgoals
beyond the basics people want to know where they're going ;
what is the vision of the organization is and where that individual fits into achieving it
Giving them some clear expectations and guidelines as to how you want somebody to behave. So that can be as simple as a position description and defining some company values or behaviors and they don't have to be over-engineered
the Gallup research that found only about half of all workers strongly indicate that they know what's expected of them at work
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
leaving the security of a #paypacket to into business
moving to New Zealand from India in 2007
her educational background in #foodscience and #technology
upskilling in business communication
her first business (Flavours Authentic Indian Food) - started while she still had her job and her children were still young
finding strengths she didn't know she had
the start of Zealandia Honey
the why for starting - to export #manukahoney to India because India was at that time (and she still thinks) is the diabetic capital of the world
wanting to make difference to people's lives by introducing honey
the #pressurecooker of starting a business
entertaining the idea of going back to work last year, because last year (Covid19) was a pretty low point
listening to the universe's way of saying stick it out
#teamwork - understanding that not everyone who's a visionary can do the operation side, and not everyone who's in the operations can be a visionary
how the ebbs and flow of business impact my children
deciding why it's best to never getting into another business with my husband (REMAINING A FAMILY)
her lifetime ambition is to be of service to people and create #impact
#inspiration from her #dad a warehouse manager at Indian Railways who saw a lot of both misery and happiness coming through that warehouse (caused by financial pressure) that he overcame by creating an innovative financial system - he touched so many hundreds of people's lives through that
empowerment of women in my community
#businessmentors
her lessons for other business founders
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Matt Vitale from Birchal talks equity crowdfunding.
00:27:51
Matt Vitale is a co-founder of Birchal https://www.birchal.com , a leading Australian equity crowdfunding platform.
Equity crowdfunding is a fast growing alternative source of finance for small business.
In this episode we cover;
Matt's professional career leading up to co-founding Birchal
His own hands-on experience as a small business owner
How one of these small businesses led to Matt (and his wife) competing in the world BBQ championships in the USA
What crowdfunding is
How crowdfunding works
Which businesses can take the most advantage of crowdfunding, and why businesses with a consumer-facing business model are well placed to take advantage
Why customers are so important in the process
The process and timeline for raising crowdfunding
What the owners of a business need to know and do if they want to raise crowdfunding
What changes once you have some investors in the business
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Michael Kerr from Kerr Capital on why founders of Social Enterprises need an exit plan just like every other business owner.
00:27:50
@Michael Kerr from @kerrcapital is an experienced adviser to founders and owners of for-profit businesses and Social Enterprises.
Continued growth in the burgeoning #socialenterprise sector has and will continue to forge successful new businesses that will be attractive to business buyers. For the #founders there will be many questions;
Can I 'cash in' and sell?
Can I sell and pass the business on so that it reaches its full potential?
why it's a positive for both #founders and the #nfsector more broadly
the 10 questions founders need to ask themselves for a better outcome
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Rodger Spencer shares what he learned over 15 years from buying, improving and then selling his inbound call centre business.
00:58:35
Rodger Spencer bought, improved and then sold his inbound call centre business, @AceAnswering
After a professional background in structural #engineering, cost engineering #estimating, and #projectmanagement in the oil and gas industry he'd reached that point where he needed a big change. He wanted a break from the intensity of previous jobs entailed and thought the only way out of it completely was to start again.
That's when in 2001 he ended up buying an existing #callcentrebusiness. He openly admits he didn't know a lot about the industry when he went into it. He thought running a business would be easy, but it wasn't. He soon discovered it was hands-on and that he had to do everything himself. If he didn't, it wouldn't happen. It was hand-to-mouth for about 4-5 years but over the years and step by step he built it up.
He's learned a lot from this experience. In our discussion we talk about;
initially not being in a hurry to sell because he felt like he was improving the business every day anyway
seeing the #businesssaleplanning process as interesting process because it made him look more deeply at some of the things that he was doing day to day, the #systems and the #procedures (that needed to be brought up to date) - he called it phase 2 of the journey aka getting the 'house in order' to make the business presentable for selling
removing himself over time from the day to day operations and customer-facing activities
how surprised he was at the length of time it took for anyone to actually take a more intense interest in the business
realising late that it takes a lot longer than everybody thinks
tye-kickers who need a ground up education in the industry
so you don't have to get involved in the negotiations
dealing with the up's and down's during the selling process - having an attitude "well, if it happens, it happens. It'll be great. But if it doesn't happen, we just got to keep going, anyway"
not getting too excited about people coming along and showing an interest but staying positive
dealing with staff while selling and when to tell them about the sale to avoid unnecessary upheaval
his advice for others considering leaving a job to #buyabusiness
his takeouts for owners thinking of selling;
start thinking about it much earlier
put things in place to make your business more attractive
continue run your business (like you would if you were going to keep it)
don't do a DIY
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
James Meldrum co-founder of Whole Kids on a tumultuous 18 years. Rich insights for all founders and owners.
01:22:29
@James Meldrum, co-founder of @Whole Kids, shares the journey of starting and growing a purpose-driven business in the organic food industry.
He talks about how he and his co-founder wife Monica tackled the many challenges they faced over 18 years and up until entering Voluntary Administration late in 2023.
"We lost about a third of our revenue overnight because we were servicing the airlines with kids meals and special meals."
Like a lot of startups the business was initially self-funded with some contributions from family and friends. Later they tapped into bank lending and debtor finance to support their growth. Eventually, they conducted a successful crowdfunding campaign to bring in more investors.
The discussion spans;
3 potential sales of the business - the emotional highs and distraction they bring to founders
dealing with the pressures of growth
the impact of external events like COVID-19, and
the importance of personal well-being. James shares his insights on the need for founders to prioritize their own mental health and find a balance between business growth and personal values
James' plans to help other founders and startups through his consultancy
Overall, the conversation highlights the highs and lows of entrepreneurship and the lessons learned along the way.
Key takeaways
Why starting a purpose-driven business in a niche market requires perseverance but also a strong alignment of personal values with the business mission
The extra challenges female co-founders need to deal with
Focus on finding investors who understand and appreciate the business's purpose and values
Potential acquisition discussions can be complex and require careful consideration of cultural fit and alignment of values
Handing over a business to a good home can provide an opportunity for founders to take a step back, capitalize on their hard work, and focus on personal and family priorities
How dealing with the pressure to constantly grow can adds complexity and stress to a business
Focus on a growth rate that is sustainable and aligned with personal values
External events like COVID-19 can have a significant impact on a business, and being financially strong and structurally sound can help weather the storm
Founders should prioritize their own mental health and well-being, and seek support from trusted friends or advisors who can provide a listening ear and guidance
Businesses can make a positive impact and thrive by aligning their purpose and values with their operations, and focusing on both profit and impact.
Sharing experiences and lessons learned can be valuable for other founders and startups, and providing support and guidance can help them navigate the challenges of entrepreneurship
"Even if you're looking at employing someone or bringing on someone as an investor, if you think you can sit next to this person on a plane for three hours and have great in-depth conversations, then they're the right person to bring in."
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Geoff Hetherington Founder of Elite Business Institute talks about how owners can utilise strategy and profitability coaching to improve the performance of their small business.
00:27:50
@Geoff Hetherington teaches business owners #owners to build their #businesses around their life so they stop feeling like an employee & they live on their terms while making more money, have more fun, and spend more time with those that matter most.
Geoff openly shares how his work experience in a wide array of industries that have enabled him to identify the #peopleskills need in successful businesses.
In our discussion we cover;
How to structure your business so it is like a real business and less like a job
Why teaching business owners to structure their business around their life has allowed them;
to feel less like an employee and more like a boss;
live on their own terms; make more money;
have more fun; and
spend more time with those who matter
How to go about uncovering where opportunities are in a business
Why it can make so much sense to engage with a #businesscoach and its benefits
Understanding when to seek coaching for your business
How ‘egos’ can be the biggest blockage for reaching out
The importance of being able to acknowledge that despite them doing their best as a business owner sometimes things just do don't work they way they should
How a coach can be a “fresh set of eyes” that can help understand what's need to make a business more successful
How effective coaching can move owners away from thinking their only option is to sell
Why it is so important for business owners to understand their numbers
How revenue, capacity and costs are the three macro levers of business and why these are important in addressing in order to improve your businesses structure
Understanding #exitplanning as something that is not necessarily always something that you do pre-selling
Why effective business mentoring and coaching needs to include;
The technical aspects, and also
Support, understanding and empathy for the business owner
How word of mouth can be the best platform for finding a trustworthy and beneficial business mentor and coach
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Barbara came into talk about her experience selling her first practice. In the episode we talk about;
early-career guidance to steer her away from Accountancy and towards Speech Pathology
her love of being able to empower a client whether a child through communication, or developing their literacy skills, or an adult improving their communication skills
the positive influence from having a father who owned his own business
starting out in a #CommunityHealthCenter and struggling with the long wait for clients (up to five years)
becoming pregnant with her first child, going on maternity leave, and using that opportunity to start my own private practice
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
how #COVID caused a lot of #businesses to have to #godigital even though they may not have wanted to, or may not have considered it to be particularly imperative before that
his favorite #analogy for explaining why #business should invest in some #diy #digitalfluency
how having that core understanding of #digital #onlinemarketing etc, even if you're not going to do it yourself, goes a long way to really helping you run your business more productively
why every business needs a #website (well most businesses) because you can't just rely on having a #Facebookpage
the crossover in many things that are good for the user experience and also good for SEO e.g. like speeding up your website. Your customers love it, so does Google
the power of owning and controlling your #website and your #email because @facebook and other #socialmediaplatforms can change their #algorithm at any time, and have multiple times. So don't build your castle on somebody else's land
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Pete Seligman Search Investor on finding and inspiring the next generation of business owners.
01:00:00
@Pete Seligman talks about and #eta (Entrepreneur through Acquisition) and #searchfunds and their impact on small business owners. He's an investor and co-owner of multiple businesses.
Pete explains the concept of search funds and how they provide a vehicle for investors to back #acquisitionentrepreneurs.
We talk about;
the importance of finding the right fit between the entrepreneur and the business
current market challenges and opportunities
how business owners should handle an approach from a search fund or investors
the role of #earnouts in business sales and how they can bridge the gap between buyer and seller
the common misunderstandings in relation to earnouts, and the potential benefits they can offer
creative deal making and risk sharing to improve the prospects for getting a successful transaction
why business owners need to augment their existing advisors with subject matter experts for a sale process
the importance for owners to reflect on their mission and have honest conversations with co-owners to align their goals
Takeaways
Search funds provide a pathway for entrepreneurs to buy existing businesses instead of starting one.
The fit between the entrepreneur and the business is crucial for success.
Business owners should be open to conversations with search funds and investors, as it can lead to new opportunities.
Co-investing and joint ventures can be options for owners who want to grow their business with additional capital and expertise.
Owners should be prepared for potential exit opportunities and have a clear understanding of their role in the business. Earn outs can be a valuable tool in bridging the gap between buyer and seller in a business sale.
Creative deal making and risk sharing are essential for a successful transaction.
Owners should consider the potential benefits of earnouts and not reject the concept of deferred payment outright.
Business owners may need to augment their advisors with additional expertise for a sale process.
Reflecting on the owner's mission and having honest conversations with co-owners are crucial for aligning goals.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Louise Broekman from Advisory Board Centre on maximising business exit value with an Advisory Board.
00:42:32
In this episode of the Small Business Banter podcast I'm joined by Louise Broekman, CEO and founder of Advisory Board Center. We cover the importance of strategic decision-making in business, but specifically the role of advisory boards in exit planning.
Key messages for #businessowners #founders #familybusinesses from Louise include the importance for shifting from on-the-run decision-making to a more thoughtful and how Advisory Boards;
provide a space for businesses to think and problem-solve over a 90-day period
help business owners make confident decisions that focus on long-term investment and growth
provide benefits including external perspective
support strategic decision-making
help navigate the complexities of exit planning
"To grow means that the business needs to be different, which means that the way that we make decisions on day-to-day things needs to be different" - Louise Broekman
Louise has a compelling 20+ year journey as a business owner, entrepreneur and advisor.
Timestamped summary of this episode: 00:01:18 - Background of the Advisory Board Center, Louise explains that the Advisory Board Center is a professional body for the advisory board sector, focused on best practices and ethics. They offer membership and certification for advisory board professionals, and operate in over 25 countries.
00:03:35 - What is an advisory board, Louise distinguishes advisory boards from governance boards, explaining that advisory boards are focused on problem solving and thinking, rather than decision making. They provide business owners with a second set of ears and different perspectives to help them make confident decisions.
00:08:41 - Types of businesses using advisory boards, Louise discusses the wide range of businesses that use advisory boards, including startups, mid-sized businesses, family businesses, partnerships, and those looking to exit or scale. She emphasizes that the market is growing and that businesses are starting to adopt advisory boards at an earlier stage.
00:15:07 - The Importance of Making Decisions, Making decisions on the run can be addictive and fulfilling, but to grow a business, different decisions need to be made. An advisory board can provide the space and time to think through decisions and explore different options, transforming it from a working capital discussion to an investment conversation.
00:16:45 - The Addictive Nature of Busyness, The busyness of running a business can feel satisfying, but it's important to focus on the top strategic issues that will truly change the way the business operates and performs. The key is to concentrate on the decisions that will have a significant impact and prioritize them over other tasks.
00:18:14 - The Need for Guidance and Confidence, After experiencing a challenging business situation, the guest realized the importance of having good people around her and gaining confidence in her decision-making process. By creating an advisory board, she sought outside perspective and support to make more informed and strategic decisions.
00:23:17 - Using Advisory Boards for Exit Planning, Advisory boards can play a crucial role in exit planning, whether it's evaluating the decision to sell, preparing the business for sale, or maximizing the asset value of the business. They can provide external perspective and guidance to help owners make the right choices and achieve successful outcomes.
00:26:57 - Exploring Alternative Exit Strategies, Exit planning shouldn't be limited to a binary decision of selling the business. There are various options to consider, such as staged exits.
00:30:42 - The Importance of Having a Clear Plan, It is crucial for business owners to have a clear plan and some ideas about what they would do after selling their business. Without a plan, an identity crisis can occur after leaving the business.
00:31:24 - Shortcomings of Exit Planning, Exit planning often focuses on financial aspects, but fails to address the question of what the owner wants to do afterwards. It is important for owners to seek advice from others who have been through the experience and explore different options.
00:32:10 - Alternatives to Selling, Some business owners may fall back in love with their business after preparing it for sale, leading them to reconsider selling. Other owners may choose to maintain a smaller business or scale back to focus on income rather than revenue.
00:33:46 - The Value of Advisory Boards, Advisory boards can bring many advantages, such as a network of contacts, industry experience, and unemotional detachment. They can provide objective frameworks, accountability, and help owners see their business from a buyer's perspective.
00:37:21 - The Importance of Outside Counsel, Owners should consider seeking outside counsel to help them navigate the challenges of running a business. It is important to have someone who can hold them accountable, provide objective advice, and help them focus on what really matters.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
@Advisory Board Centre - there you can learn more about their services, how they can help your business and explore the membership model offered by the Advisory Board Centre to become a credentialed advisory board professional and join a global community of like-minded individuals
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Carly Flecknoe from #madethegrampiansway explains how her small business focus led to a successful tree-change.
00:27:51
@carlyflecknoe has been busy since moving to Halls Gap a few years back. With her husband she co-founded @dotandfrankie & @raccoltopizza. She headed up the Halls Gap music festival .
Carly also spearheaded #madethegrampiansway to showcase the best products and produce in the region. She's done this in collaboration with @thegrampians. The objective of the campaign is to draw consumers attention to and support local produce #buylocal
She loves being involved and is passionate about the place she lives in.
In our discussion we cover;
Jumping in 'boots & all'
The change from a big city and a corporate job to life in Halls Gap with a family and a few small businesses to run
How #smallbusiness is a pathway for other potential tree-changers
How #regionalbusinesses are so vital to creating jobs and learning and skill development opportunities for youth and young adults
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
David Gregory, CEO SBMS, on using an external mentor to improve your small business.
00:27:50
Small Business Mentoring Service (SBMS) has 180+ experienced mentors available to help small business owners. SBMS CEO, David Gregory provides a rundown on the low cost services offered and how to access them.
SBMS matches current business owners, in need of some expert advice or support, with 180 uniquely experienced business mentors who are a mix of retired and still active business owners and executives. SBMS now has mentors in most states of Australia providing marketing, financial and planning advice to help;
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 1 - Yasmin Grigaliunas founder of Circonomy (née Worlds Biggest Garage Sale) on the personal commitment, energy and sacrifices to begin, grow and sustain a viable world changing business.
Across three episodes we track right back to the influences that helped formed Yas's personal motivations and values. Along with the desire to deliver change through business they fuelled the formation and ongoing success of @circonomy.
Our discussion covers;
How taking on a permanent full time role as manager of #SilviosDialAPizza (now #dominos) after finishing school changed the trajectory of Yas’ career to becoming a real entrepreneur
The significant role #smallbusinesses play in creating our future business leaders and sustaining our local communities
The importance of having a small business ownership mindset and "acting like an owner”
Why small businesses with constraints should consider partnerships with bigger businesses
How Yas’s personal passion for supporting cancer research seeded the World’s Largest Garage Sale
Why doing business that isn't about yourself
The #circulareconomy that surrounds charities and different enterprises
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Andrew Clements, Chair, Employee Ownership Aust. on using employee ownership for greater business success.
00:27:51
Employee Ownership has many advantages that can result in greate business success. It's a major opportunity for both owners of SMEs and employees.
Andrew Clements is a legal consultant in the global law firm King & Wood, Mallesons and Chair, Employee Ownership Australia . He has over 30 years’ experience in relation to both the tax and legal issues associated with employee share schemes.
He is also the current chair of Employee Ownership Australia (EOA).
EOA is an independent not-for-profit member-based organisation promoting employee ownership in Australia. More recently Andrew appeared before the Parliamentary Inquiry into Employee Ownership Australia by the Tax and revenue committee.
In this episode Andrew talks about;
The use of employee ownership in both established and start-up businesses
How owners can use employee ownership;
To improve business performance through greater employee engagement, collaboration, and a shared vision
As part of their planning to exit the business, either partially or totally
How employees can benefit
How businesses using employee ownership are better placed to survive challenging business conditions
The UK's experience with employee ownership
Employee Ownership Australia has a wealth of resources on their site to help owners and employees.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Martin Cattach from Finance For Business on where and how owners can access alternative finance to help support their small business
00:51:29
Host @Michael Kerr and @Martin Cattach , founder of Finance for Business, discuss the stranglehold the big four banks on small business lending, and explore alternative options for financing.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
He was inspired by and trained with @DavidAllen who wrote #GettingThingsDone. He uses the #GTDmethodology in his work to improve productivity management, build team leadership & develop communication.
Les believes higher productivity is determined by the answers to 2 key questions;
1. Where is your focus?
2. What do you want to do today? What do you want to do this year?
In our discussion we talk about;
Creating a goal and keeping accountable for it
The power of asking 'what do you want to get done today'?
Getting it out of your head and onto paper - the power of writing down what you want to get achieved (and avoiding being lost with 1000 other things going around in your head)
The key to effective time management being very clear about what you want to do with your time
The secret to project success;
What's the end result? What does done look like? What are you trying to achieve?
Second question whats next?
Identifying the telltale signs that signal someone is struggling at a personal level with all the overwhelm
The importance of better productivity to ensure you are keeping agreements with the people around you, the ones you love
Why with all of us having the same 24 hours it's about how we prioritize the things that are going to give us the biggest return
Why leaders need to put their own mask on first before helping others.
The value of a walk around the block and enough sleep
The simple components of a trusted system - paper or electronic - where everything gets recorded to ensure it will get done
The power of having it all in one place
Doing a brain dump and enjoying the freedom and creativity that comes in there from that
Why the shortest pencil is longer than the longest memory
Write it down! Write it down! Write it down!
Creating accountability by meeting with somebody on a daily or weekly basis to discuss what worked, what didn't work is what I'm going to do differently next week.
Why you probably can't do it alone
The key to email managment - the 4 D’s;
do
dump
delegate or
decide / diarise
Making the hard decisions for an improvement in productivity
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Deb Curtis is a small business funding expert who helps employees to leave corporate life and become a business owner
00:49:44
@DebCurtis is on a mission to grow small business ownership. She has rich experience lending to small businesses. This experience spans big banks, regional banks, non-banks, and community banks. She's the founder of @curtissmallbusinessfinancesolutions a @smallbusinessadministration lending specialist.
The SBA loan guarantee scheme enables businesses to be purchased with finance against the cash flow of the business. It's an innovative scheme that makes small business ownership more obtainable and helps drive higher rates of business transition.
In our discussion we cover:
how the scheme:
helps business buyers
allows existing baby-boomer business owners to more easily sell their business or retire by enabling a qualified buyer to take over without the worries of finding 'traditional' financing collateral i.e. personal real estate
enables lenders to fund businesses that have variable
cash flow
the application process for getting approved and criteria for getting qualified
why it’s so challenging to fund small businesses in Australia due to feasibility differences compared with medium or large businesses
what owners need to do in order to maximise their chances of successful funding
why we need to support small businesses as important factors in our local economies
why with such limited options for cash flow lending and lending to small business generally there's a need for a similar scheme in Australia
how to promote an environment that enables individuals to buy an established business through government policy initiatives to continue to grow the next generation of small business owners
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
She helps #aspiringauthors to write their own #book, and has also created a #multiauthorbook #platform to enable people to basically contribute a chapter to a book along with other authors and entrepreneurs.
working with #smallbusinesses in the #regions and helping them get cut through and actually access the right clients
being asked in 2019 to co-author a book in USA - not being sure she had time but accepting and finding new networks, and new directions
identifying how her corporate background, skill set including learning & development and communications & marketing actually flipped things on their headband and made her more powerful.
established her own publishing company
how she takes people through the writing process and gets them to start thinking about how to promote themselves and what they want to do on the back of that
how COVID has changed the game considerably for everybody around the globe - and while a lot more people are online, it's a lot noisier and harder to cut through
how regardless of where you are physically located, the opportunities to build a global audience, a global brand, and a global client base being more realistic
the particular challenges for regional and remote business owners
growing up in the country with parents who always ran a business
The importance of personal connections and the opportunity for identifying your ideal client and then working out where they are and how you can actually connect with them
@AnthonyTurner book (Disaster Recovery) being cathartic after doing a lot of work in disaster recovery after the Black Saturday bushfires Victorian floods of 2010 2011
writing and sharing your story to help change the lives of others and make the world a better place, and potentially also to leverage that as a marketing tool or personal branding tool
being approached now by quite a big magazine in Europe
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Garik Tate Futurist and business owner on how to increase small business value and sellability by using AI in your Exit Planning.
01:02:17
@Garik Tate has more than a decade of experience as a successful entrepreneur. He grew up in small business family and founded companies spanning Software Development, Outsourcing, and Publishing with up to 75 employees.
Garik is a sought-after speaker on AI’s future, and its practical application in business. His expertise and passion for the subject have earned him a reputation as a respected voice in the AI community, and he is often sought out by companies looking for advice on how to leverage the power of AI to drive growth and success.
Our discussion focuses on how to incorporate #AI into #exitplanning for small business owners. You'll understand how to;
Maximize the value of your small business with AI-driven planning strategies
Boost your small business operations with the power of AI
Discover the benefits and strategies of outsourcing to elevate your small business
Solve small business problems faster and more efficiently with no-code AI tools
00:00:03 - Introduction to Garrick Tate Garrick Tate is an AI futurist, investor, and AI strategy consultant with a decade of entrepreneurial experience. He has founded and led successful companies in software development, outsourcing, and publishing, specializing in AI, IQ, and EQ. 00:01:14 - The Role of Outsourcing in Exit Planning Garrick discusses how outsourcing can be used in exit planning to increase profits and ultimately raise the value of a business. He emphasizes the importance of utilizing AI and automation to free up human resources for more complex tasks. 00:07:07 - The Value of Human Intelligence Despite the rise of AI, Garrick highlights the unique complexities and capabilities of human intelligence. He believes that humans are still the best assets in business and that their potential should be fully utilized alongside AI technologies. 00:09:55 - The Last Mile Upgrade in Exit Planning Garrick introduces the concept of the "last mile upgrade" in exit planning, which involves integrating the latest technologies, such as AI and automation, to remove constraints and significantly increase a business's potential value before a potential acquisition. 00:11:16 - Considering the Decision to Sell or Keep a Business Garrick discusses the factors to consider when deciding whether to sell or keep a business. He emphasizes the importance of reducing owner dependency, increasing EBITDA, and factoring in opportunity costs before making a decision. 00:17:19 - Introduction, Garik Tate explains the various components of the business, including the VA company and software company. He focuses on the new offering related to exit planning and how they help businesses remove constraints and reduce risk to increase acquisition potential. 00:19:19 - Detailed Process Analysis, Garik discusses their process of creating a whiteboard diagram of every process in a company, from prospecting to sales to fulfillment. They then create a metrics dashboard to track key performance indicators and identify constraints. With this information, they provide a prescription list of areas to address within 90 days. 00:20:08 - Theory of Constraints, Garik explains the theory of constraints, emphasizing the importance of identifying and removing the biggest constraints in a business. He mentions the 90-day window as a timeframe to focus on the lowest hanging fruit that contribute to constraint removal and capacity adjustment. 00:23:29 - Opportunities in Remote and Local Businesses, Garik notes that the theory of constraints applies to any industry, but their specialization in remote and internet-based businesses allows them to control inputs and outputs through software and remote teams. He also highlights the potential for digitizing customer interactions in local businesses. 00:27:40 - Implementing AI and Automation, Garik shares an example of improving their VA company's recruitment process through systematization and tripling the number of people processed. He emphasizes the importance of clear inputs and the possibility of adding AI and automation to processes once they are systematized. 00:36:13 - The Value of No Code Tools, No code tools are accessible to anyone and can be used to solve problems without having to learn how to code. They provide an easy way to add functionality to websites or create interactions with viewers. 00:37:19 - The Importance of Having a Goal, To effectively learn and use development skills, it's important to have a specific goal in mind. Setting clear objectives and learning the necessary skills to achieve them is more effective than aimlessly learning without a purpose. 00:38:08 - Empowering Your Team, Business owners can use no code tools as an opportunity to empower their team and delegate tasks. This allows for leadership training and the addition of AI or automation to the company. It's a way to prepare the business for future growth and success. 00:39:26 - Quicker and Cheaper Solutions with AI, AI enables quicker and cheaper solutions to business problems that may have seemed impossible in the past. Business owners should embrace the capabilities of AI and use it to improve their businesses. 00:42:35 - Solving Business Problems with AI, No code tools, such as Zapier, Google Sheets, and Chatgbt Playground, can be used to solve various business problems. From automating follow-up sequences to integrating tools, these tools provide a stack that can significantly enhance business operations. 00:53:05 - The Evolution of Entrepreneurship, In medieval times, entrepreneurs engaged in arbitrage by buying high in one place and selling low in another. Today, modern entrepreneurs play arbitrage with the future, disrupting industries and capitalizing on emerging trends. As a result, prices will decrease, but businesses will provide more value in the long run. 00:54:26 - Seizing the Moment of Disruption, The next five to ten years present a unique opportunity for businesses to position themselves ahead of their competition. By embracing new technologies like AI, businesses can stay in parity and avoid falling behind. It's a crucial time to invest in the future and take advantage of the creative potential it offers. 00:57:35 - Being a Great Business, Being a great business requires effort, regardless of the level of success. Embracing new technologies and adapting to change is crucial. The current wave of technological advancements presents a challenge and an opportunity for businesses to excel and provide value in different areas. 01:02:06 - Looking Forward and Backward, Small businesses are essential in keeping powerful entities in check. Looking to the future while reflecting on the past can help businesses thrive. It's important for small businesses to have a voice and contribute to the development and improvement of our society. 01:03:06 - Connecting with Garik Tate, If you're seeking to increase your business valuation or need virtual assistant services or product development, reach out to Garik Tate on LinkedIn.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Geoff Hetherington, Business Teacher, on how and why you should take your retirement sooner and in instalments.
00:27:50
@GeoffHetherington from @EliteBusinessInstitute teaches #businessowners how to build their business around their life so they stop feeling like an employee and live on their terms, make more money, have more fun & spend more time with those that matter most.
Inspired by childhood family friends he outlines in this episode the case for taking your #retirement early and in instalments (i.e. not waiting and assuming you'll get to the end of a linear #careerpath or #businessownership and assuming/hoping you'll still be able to enjoy it!).
The retirement in installments story was based on a family he knew. They would go in and buy a #milkbar, and then work virtually seven days a week for two years, bank as much money as they could, and then sell anywhere from two to three years later before then having an extended overseas adventure and buying the next milk bar.
This family didn't follow the well travelled linear pathway (taught all the way from primary school) to "go to high school. If you get lucky, go to Uni, but whatever, get a job, work for 40 years, retire, happy days."
More and more people are aware of the fact that waking up tomorrow is really not a given. We don't know what's going to happen. We chatted about;
getting your business to work for you
the three levels;
Detangle - get people very clear on where they come from, where they are, where they want to get to, and what areas of their business need the most urgent work on
Designing - designing their business, so it sits around the outside of their life instead of their life being around their business
Dominate - dominate their market place and put together the next strategy.
why 'pretending' you're going to #sellyourbusiness in 3 months (whether you really intend to or not) can make your business more efficient and effective
why it's so important to ask yourself a fundamental question - "How much is enough?
misalignment of personal and business goals
why you should cascade from your personal and professional goals down to your business goals, down to your #KPIs
It's really about clarity. I mean, the first thing I try to help my clients do is stop defining themselves by the work they do.
They define themselves by the work they do. I try to say, "Well, define yourself outside that, if you stop work tomorrow, who would you be?" That's a really challenging thing to do. A lot of people don't do it, but it's still something I asked them to consider
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Bronwyn Reid business owner and author of Small Company Big Business on how small business owners can benefit bigtime from working with large businesses and government
00:27:50
@bronwynreid is a Business Owner, Author and Mentor who specialises in helping small businesses connect with bigger players. The benefits for owners are enormous and opportunities plentiful in the current post-covid environment.
Her book is titled @SmallCompanyBigBusiness and it focuses on how small businesses can find, win, and retain big customers.
In our discussion we talk about the why and how small businesses should engage with larger businesses and government entities. Bronwyn covers;
why big businesses are increasingly interested in engaging with smaller businesses
how the COVID-19 pandemic brought about changes in the business landscape, including;
disruptions in supply chains, and a
reevaluation of business practices
how this has created new opportunities for small businesses to engage with larger entities
tapping into government procurement opportunities and why Governments are showing more interest in working with local and small businesses
collaborations and joint ventures , and partnering with complementary businesses or experts in specific areas to access better opportunities and to increase success rates in winning contracts
exploring opportunities within their local council as many local governments have websites where they list tender opportunities
the databases and resources available for finding government procurement opportunities (refer to @bronwynreid, her website)
looking to cooperative and mutual ownership models as a way to support local communities and ensure businesses remain locally operated and owned
the value of continuous learning, networking, and seeking guidance from mentors and experts to navigate the ever-evolving business landscape
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 2 - Norman Hall from Exit By Design makes a compelling case for why business owners need an Exit Plan.
00:27:50
@NormanHall has a diverse background including business, corporate and private banking. He's also been through the process of selling a family business that his wife founded. Now he's a specialist #exitplanner and draws on all this experience to help #businessowners protect the value they have built up in their business, and then when the time is right, plan and execute a more successful #businessexit.
In our discussion we cover;
the importance of having a ‘ringmaster’ for your businesses exit
the reasons business owners put off exit planning and the consequences of this
the challenging discussions that can arise in family businesses that have not considered an exit plan
the timelines that are involved in exit planning
how Norman breaks down the process of exit planning for owners into something worthy and compelling for the time and effort involved
why business owners should see value in exit planning as an #investment
why the very old mantra of "failing to plan = planning to fail" unfortunately still applies to many owners
the importance of staged exit planning because “you cannot do it all at once”
working with the new business owner after selling
how Norman drew on his own experience and the experience of his wife and business partner to get their business ready to sell
the importance of having all your external experts taking the same approach
why it is important for exit planning to involve #successionplanning, #businessplanning, and structuring for tax purposes as well as management purposes
breaking down the assumptions that surround exit planning
why problems with terminology have misled owners about exit planning, what it involves and why it is so important
CONTRIBUTORS
Norman Hall
Michael Kerr
KEYWORDS
exitbydesign
familybusiness
businessownership
smallbusiness
exitplanning
businessexit
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Mark Rubbo from Readings Books on what it takes to create and sustain an iconic business, and why handing over was harder than expected.
01:18:14
@MarkRubbo from @readingsbooks shares his personal take on buying and building this iconic business. We cover a lot of ground including;
How the opportunity to buy Readings came about
Laving the music industry (Professor Longhair) for book retailing
The linkage of Marks business ambitions with the impact on;
the Australian book industry
the broader literary community (writers, publishers)
the local community
Mark's ambition and opportunistic mindset to expanding Readings into multiple other locations, and the establishment of an online presence
The importance of community engagement, author events and creating a vibrant bookstore
The physical bookshops as a unique experience, with the opportunity for discovery
Why Government support for bookshops is crucial in preserving the cultural value they bring to communities
Transitioning out of the CEO role and ensuring a smooth succession to maintain the unique flavor of Readings
The challenges and rewards of running an independent bookstore
The impact of Borders Books when it opened directly opposite in Lygon St in the early 2000's
The impact of online retailers like Amazon
His experiences of succession planning, and advice for other small bookshop owners - to ensure the continuity of their business and to pass on their legacy.
He also talks about his current projects;
The Book Sellers podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-booksellers-podcast/id1683259417
#Indigenousarts
#literaryprizes
@beyondblue
And finally what it's really like to 'move on', and hand over day to day management
QUOTES:
"Sometimes founders rightfully wrongly put everything they've got into it and other people get to benefit from it."
"I hope Readings has been a sort of community focused business."
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Diana Sargeant from rosesalesonline.com.au on turning the worlds favorite flower into a business
00:27:51
Diana & Graham Sargeant run www.rosesalesonline.com.au, a leading destination for the #roselovers across Australia. The business started unexpectedly while on their honeymoon.
It's always been a #familybusiness, built around #familyvalues and #parenting and sharing the love for what is the #worldsfavoriteflower in a #sustainable, caring way for the #environment.
In our freeflowing and open discussion Diana talks about;
starting at Kilmore back in 1986
starting out of a small cottage with kids at home and being a #stayathomemum
making a visit to the world rose convention, entering a miniature rose that unexpectedly won the Australian award for miniature roses - the #traceywickhamrose that really kickstarted the business
from there building gardens around the cottage leading to people stopping because they knew that we were doing something there and they would ask, you know, can we buy this and can we buy that?
reallising when there's obviously a business in this
dealing with council and with neighbours who didnt want change and having a #waroftheroses
turning this negativity into an enormous amount of really good publicity
getting nominated to go to America on a rotary program (Business Program) for women, and the incredible impact this had
going away as a #youngmum from my kids and husband for five weeks
getting priorities sorted
remodelling the business to suit their lifestyle
opening the second nursery cafe in Victoria
writing a book
creating a newsletter, converting it to an email which nows goes to 10K subscribers every Thursday @ 10am
#contentmarketing, sharing knowledge and #educatingcustomers
the rose that went missing for 21 days in the post but survives in her garden to this day
how #aupost came to the rescue - going direct to the top in Australia Post, punching out an email to Christine Holgate on a Saturday and getting a personal that Saturday evening (the absolute honest truth)
10 years on #3cr community radio
the transformation from a traditional horticultural business to an online business
becoming renowned across the country for your wealth of knowledge about all things roses
the booming rose industry
#grasgarble
the avalanche of people moving into gardening because people have tapped into something that they really like - connecting with the soil, connecting with themselves, feeling really good about this gardening thing - it's not going away
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ed Scott founder of Resolve on building a better marketplace to buy and sell small & medium businesses.
00:49:17
@Ed Scott is the founder of @Resolve which is a small medium enterprise marketplace. In other words it's a website where people can search for and browse businesses to buy.
The goal of Resolve is to create a single place for supply and demand, and democratizing access to hidden gems that are often overlooked due to lack of available knowledge or resources.
Resolve caters for;
Businesses with an Enterprise Value of between $1M AUD to $40M AUD, and
Urgent business sale campaigns such as recapitalizations and external administrations.
Some key takeaways from our discussion;
According to MGI Institute, 60-70% of business owners are open to selling if approached properly
Why business owners should research the selling process by speaking with their accountant, lawyer or friends & colleagues who have also owned businesses.
Ideal timeframes for planning an exit
The key steps to prepare a business
The availability of various financing options to enable small businesses to purchase a business
Ed also shares how he manages to personally 'maintain the rage' as the founder of fast growing startup by;
drawing inspiration from his business partner, and
focussing hard everyday on doing what he knows he'll regret not doing
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 1 - Norman Hall from Exit By Design makes a compelling case for why business owners need an Exit Plan.
00:27:50
@NormanHall has a diverse background including business, corporate and private banking. He's also been through the process of selling a family business that his wife founded. Now he's a specialist #exitplanner and draws on all this experience to help #businessowners protect the value they have built up in their business, and then when the time is right, plan and execute a more successful #businessexit.
In our discussion we cover;
the importance of having a ‘ringmaster’ for your businesses exit
the reasons business owners put off exit planning and the consequences of this
the challenging discussions that can arise in family businesses that have not considered an exit plan
the timelines that are involved in exit planning
how Norman breaks down the process of exit planning for owners into something worthy and compelling for the time and effort involved
why business owners should see value in exit planning as an #investment
why the very old mantra of "failing to plan = planning to fail" unfortunately still applies to many owners
the importance of staged exit planning because “you cannot do it all at once”
working with the new business owner after selling
how Norman drew on his own experience and the experience of his wife and business partner to get their business ready to sell
the importance of having all your external experts taking the same approach
why it is important for exit planning to involve #successionplanning, #businessplanning, and structuring for tax purposes as well as management purposes
breaking down the assumptions that surround exit planning
why problems with terminology have misled owners about exit planning, what it involves and why it is so important
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
The day-to-day challenges faced by small business owners and having they can be dealt with
The importance of meetings involving everyone, not just management, as “input is needed from everybody”
Why it is important to plan an array of timelines for where you want your business at different stages in the future
How #workerownedcooperatives allow for more open discussions and time for decisions about future plans
How #cooperatives see investments in the business relative to the people that make up the business
How #cooperatives allow for other opinions and experts to join the team to help grow and structure a #smallbusiness
The future of cooperatives
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Tim Hoopmann from Beyond Blue on dealing with mental health issues in small business
00:27:51
Tim Hoopmann is a speaker for www.beyondblue.org.au, a national organisation that works to raise awareness about anxiety and depression, reduce the associated stigma and encourage people to get help.
He became a beyondblue speaker because as a small business owner he struggled with his own mental health. He learnt ways to mange this and wants to share his stories of hope.
In corporate life he initially lived a double life and this caused stress and anxiety. Being brave enough to come out, he wants to help others struggling in similar situations.
In this epsiode we discuss;
Tim's personal experiences as a small business owner with mental health issues
Tim's personal mission to take what he had learned through that journey and share it with other people
The ongoing efforts to take away the stigma around mental health
Identifying some of the common signals and triggers that may indicate someone has mental health issues
How owners and their family can deal better with the pressures in small business that can lead to later mental health issues
The particular challenges faced by regional small business owners in recent past
The value of support groups and networks for small business owners
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Team members from The Outback Alliance on achieving sustainable economic development in outback Australia
00:27:51
The Outback Alliance is a cross-sectoral group of #ngos and individuals who focus on the development, welfare and protection of Outback Australian communities and nature.
The Alliance works together to advise, assist and advocate to all levels of government to adopt an approach to policy development and implementation that ensures the sustainable development of Outback Australia.
The vision of www.outbackalliance.org.auis for a thriving #outbackaustralia, for the people and the land. In this episode Daina Neverauskas, Andrew Drysdale and Frank Quinlan (Federation, Executive Director of the #RoyalFlyingDoctorService) talk about the work they are doing to promote better and fairer outback & remote policies. In this discussion we cover;
the sheer size of the outback which covers approximately 6 million square kilometers, or 80% of Australia with 3% of the population
The 7 or 8 federal MP’s who would have 80% of their electorate in #rangelands
the challenge in trying to influence government to have policies that work for a very, very large area, but a very, very small percentage of people with a very, very small voting power
The challenges particularly from a business perspective for people living in Outback or remote Australia like the cost and speed of transport, getting fresh perishables
the #royalaustralianflyingdoctorservice ( a child of the outback) over 90 years has been about ensuring that folks who are living a long way from the tertiary hospitals and other places can get the care they need, as and when they need it
An example of opportunity and challenge - #winton@Tattshotelwinton (1200 kilometers northwest of Brisbane) - a couple who switched international travel for an Outback trip
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
In this 2nd interview (over 2 weeks) Sandra Kain from #ColesBay in #Tasmania shares her beginning to end story of landing in #ColesBay starting 2 new businesses and then completing the cycle and selling, over a much longer timeframe than she imagined, a bit over 26 years later. We cover;
hearing the signal that ït's #timetosell - knowing that the average time it would take to #sellyour business was three or four years.
kicking off the #sellingprocess and getting nowhere slowly (initially by putting notices on the front of my businesses - just to see who was out there)
deciding that after twelve months two years that it was not really going anywhere
the challenges for young couples, young baker's in getting #finance
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Annabelle is also a #pecanfarmer west of #tenterfield, an #author, a #podcaster. She maintains a rich and diversified portfolio of activities alongside her family life (a farmer husband and 3 lovely kids).
In this episode she talks about her transition out of Sydney, and we cover a lot of ground including;
growing up suburban Sydney, getting a dream job after uni and then working as a journalist for the Australian newspaper, thinking life was going to go down a much more urban track
falling in love with a farmer
loving life out here, one she never knew about before
creating your own opportunities, your own business and an empire
the historical voice from the bush, in a kind of post colonial sense, you know, the Bush was such an important part of our national psyche - built on the sheep's back you know everyone was a farmer, they knew a farmer, they had a connection with the bush.
how nowadays, that connection has really eroded, and, you know, we're one of the most urbanized countries in the world and I think it's something like 85% of us live within 50kms of the coasts,
how the Bush used to be so powerful and now it's much less powerful
the song of decline, the narrative of decline is something that we hear about a lot
being really surprised and delighted to find that when I moved out to regional Australia. It was not this sad place, it was vibrant and joyful and full of innovation.
why it's really important for us to tell these stories - to not always talk about drought, and lack of access to medical services, and lack of jobs because this life out here is also really rich
as you know it's not all light, there's a darkness too, but I think it's a more complex picture I guess then historical stereotypes have portrayed.
why living 80 kilometers out of town, and feeling quite separate from #townlife and being a real outsider, is probably good for making observations
what's happening in #Tenterfield - primarily an ag town, you know traditional grazing community but now there's lots of different people coming - opening Airbnb’s, new shopkeepers, new restauranters - there's a real mix of people coming into the community
how from her my point of view having this diverse makeup of people in the community is the key to the future of regional Australia. Having people that don't have skills that are just kind of ag-based, you know, we've got architects, restauranteurs, artists, and all of this that makes up the vibrant, diverse life that I want
#decentralization - has been this dream for so long but now it actually feels real, we have technology that allows that to happen. And then, with COVID we've sort of been forced into it and I actually think it's a really exciting time for regional Australia.
#treechange and the reasons behind it - significantly cheaper real estate prices - you can get a lot of bang for your buck
the #giftofcommunity - you know everyone's names, they know you, they care about you, even if you don't have the same political views, they will help you when you need it you know we had fires around here and everyone just helped everyone and that feeling of being seen and heard and cared for, I didn’t know what I was missing.
life before #treechange - pretty much hung with people who were very much like me in my Sydney life
why mixing with people who aren't all alike is good for humanity
feeling a lot more courageous here than I did in my city life. I don't think I ever would have thought I could start my own publication in Sydney because I was surrounded by amazing publications
feeling emboldened out here, and I think. I think in a way that's a reflection of the community being so much smaller and that awful voice of comparison, just isn't as loud and you can just kind of try more things
why a lot of country towns that are way ahead of the politicians;
#Communityownedcompanies that have the aim of creating and generating enough renewable clean energy to power their own communities, and any profits that are made go back into the community.
How you can have direct access to city based customers these days through @Instagram and @buyfromthebush and bypass the traditional middlemen and redistribute those margins. I just think it's such an exciting time, keep the margins local.
Moving away from competitiveness into cooperation so that they can actually build something strong for the community
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Bruce has built a hugely successful #globalbusiness, leading and pioneering a whole new way for #art and #culture to be viewed around the world. His companies create very large multi-sensory #digital#immersiveexperiences that have now been exhibited in about 190 cities around the world, six continents and 32 languages. At a recent count about 17 million visitors have passed through. He did this by backing himself and from the position of an 'outsider' to the #traditionalartsindustry. We talk about;
the #businessmodel - conceptualising, designing, and then creating a large cultural experiences to license to #museums and #galleries around the world
synchronizing all the #humansenses together and touching people emotionally in art and culture, perhaps like, they haven't been touched before.
being #Australian and working with an Italian icon, Leonardo da Vinci, and the question - why is an Australian doing this?
being free of the all the internal politics of #curators, #boards, #donors, and #governments, and cutting through all the crap to get to the heart of what's important in my industry
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Daniel Neuhaus, from Six8 Coffee Roasters and Trader & Co., on dealing with growth pains in a business started in a domestic kitchen from a passion for coffee and making a difference.
How these experiences “have shaped #howwedobusiness” and see the businesses still giving back to organisations Daniel worked with on previous Christian missions
Why Daniels “businesses are a force for good” and how they shape every decision and interaction
Businesses with dual purpose; building a business that is scalable but also doing good along the way.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ben Tuszynski on how Judo Bank is fuelling greater success for small business owners by getting back to relationship banking.
00:51:35
@Ben Tuszynski from @Judo Bank, shares his insights on the importance of banking relationships for small business owners.
Ben is currently the Managing Director of Judo Bank in Victoria and Tasmania. He has over a decade of experience in the banking and finance sector. Joining Judo in 2017 as one of the pioneering employees, Ben has played a pivotal role in the bank's substantial growth over the years.
His primary focus lies in supporting small and medium-sized enterprises, aligning with Judo's commitment to providing tailored financial solutions to businesses, in an age of #industrialisedbanking.
Our conversation covers;
Judo's nimble and responsive approach to #smebanking
The four C's of credit
Ben's tips for business owners, such as the value of having open discussions with banking professionals
What to do if you're feeling frustrated by the lack of support and opportunities from your current bank
Trusted advisors for small businesses
Vendor finance in #businesstransitions
Explore better banking relationships through skilled finance brokers
"No one business is the same from the other, so how do you industrialize that whole process? We really want to have a look at what's their management experience, what's their skill set, how have they gone through the ups and downs of the economy and weathered those storms?" Ben Tuszynski
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:14 - Introduction and Technical Difficulties Michael and Julie from Judo talk about technical issues regarding Ben's recording for the podcast.
00:03:13 - Catching Up and Personal Background Ben and Michael catch up on their personal backgrounds, discussing Ben's move back from Perth and his role at Judo.
00:07:02 - Judo's Mission and Target Audience Ben explains Judo's mission and target audience, focusing on small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) with turnover up to $100 million.
00:13:07 - Judo's Approach and Importance of Personalized Banking Ben elaborates on Judo's approach, highlighting the importance of personalized banking relationships for SMEs and the industrialization of the banking market.
00:17:21 - The Importance of Reviewing Banking Relationships Michael and Ben emphasize the importance of reviewing banking relationships and the role of a trusted banker in supporting the growth and success of SMEs.
00:20:02 - Importance of Collaborating with Accountants and Business Coaches Ben emphasizes the importance of engaging with accountants and business coaches to navigate complex business situations and provide added value to customers.
00:21:48 - Judo's Customer Base and Industry Focus Ben discusses Judo's industry-agnostic approach, catering to SMEs across various sectors such as accommodation, manufacturing, financial services, and property investment.
00:25:17 - The Four C's of Credit Ben explains Judo's credit assessment framework based on character, capacity, capital, and collateral, with a focus on character and the ability to walk the factory floor for a deeper understanding of the business.
00:29:39 - Importance of Credible Cash Flow Forecasts Ben emphasizes the significance of credible cash flow forecasts and the business owner's ability to endorse and explain the assumptions, fostering trust and communication in the lending relationship.
00:33:29 - Funding Opportunities for Growing Businesses Ben highlights Judo's approach to lending against trading businesses, supporting growth plans beyond traditional equity in property and enabling businesses to access funding based on their strong balance sheet and income generation.
00:35:25 - Understanding Debt Servicing Capability Ben explains the importance of understanding a client's capability to service debt on a case-by-case basis. He emphasizes the need for deeper conversations and not missing out on growth opportunities.
00:36:43 - Business Growth and Financing Ben discusses the dynamics between business owners and potential buyers when it comes to taking on debt for growth. He highlights the role of trusted relationships and the importance of considering alternative financing options.
00:40:54 - Vendor Finance and Business Sales Ben and Michael explore the concept of vendor finance and its potential in facilitating business sales. They emphasize the need for effective structuring and collaboration between the buyer, seller, and banker.
00:43:32 - Loyalty Tax and Customer Relationships Ben delves into the concept of "loyalty tax" and emphasizes the importance of delivering strong relationships and support to existing customers. He also discusses the role of finance brokers as an effective channel for improving banking relationships.
00:47:34 - Economic Outlook and SME Support Ben shares his views on the economic outlook for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), highlighting factors such as labor market conditions, property market trends, and sector-specific considerations. He reaffirms Judo's dedication to supporting SMEs.
00:53:09 - Building Trust and Long-Term Relationships Ben discusses the importance of building long-term relationships with customers and becoming Australia's most trusted SME bank. The focus is on delivering quick and confident solutions to customers for their business needs.
00:53:46 - The Value of Banking Relationships Ben emphasizes the importance of evaluating the effectiveness of banking relationships and suggests reaching out to judo or a finance broker for a better understanding. The conversation highlights the mission of fintechs like judo in providing special opportunities to clients.
00:54:19 - Experienced Business Bankers at Judo Ben reinforces the fact that judo, as a new bank, is staffed with experienced business bankers. He encourages businesses to start chipping away at any loyalty tax they may be paying and acknowledges the efforts of other fintechs in the industry.
00:55:11 - Access to Opportunities and Different Ways of Financing The conversation touches on how judo and other fintechs have enabled clients to tap into opportunities that may not have been accessible before. The focus is on freeing up capital and exploring different ways of financing for businesses.
00:55:33 - Ways to Reach Out to Judo Ben shares the various ways to reach out to judo, either through their website, phone, or LinkedIn. He emphasizes their willingness to help and collaborate with businesses, concluding the conversation with a message of appreciation for the opportunity to share insights about judo.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 3 - Norman Hall from Exit By Design makes a compelling case for why business owners need an Exit Plan.
00:27:50
@NormanHall has a diverse background including business, corporate and private banking. He's also been through the process of selling a family business that his wife founded. Now he's a specialist #exitplanner and draws on all this experience to help #businessowners protect the value they have built up in their business, and then when the time is right, plan and execute a more successful #businessexit.
In our discussion we cover;
the importance of having a ‘ringmaster’ for your businesses exit
the reasons business owners put off exit planning and the consequences of this
the challenging discussions that can arise in family businesses that have not considered an exit plan
the timelines that are involved in exit planning
how Norman breaks down the process of exit planning for owners into something worthy and compelling for the time and effort involved
why business owners should see value in exit planning as an #investment
why the very old mantra of "failing to plan = planning to fail" unfortunately still applies to many owners
the importance of staged exit planning because “you cannot do it all at once”
working with the new business owner after selling
how Norman drew on his own experience and the experience of his wife and business partner to get their business ready to sell
the importance of having all your external experts taking the same approach
why it is important for exit planning to involve #successionplanning, #businessplanning, and structuring for tax purposes as well as management purposes
breaking down the assumptions that surround exit planning
why problems with terminology have misled owners about exit planning, what it involves and why it is so important
CONTRIBUTORS
Norman Hall
Michael Kerr
KEYWORDS
exitbydesign
familybusiness
businessownership
smallbusiness
exitplanning
businessexit
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Joe Formichella from Bendigo Bank on making the most of your small business banking relationship.
00:27:51
Joe Formichella runs the small business banking team at Bendigo Bank, Australia's fifth-largest bank.
Joe is a highly experienced, career business banker.
He does an excellent job of outlining how best to deal with your bank, (even if it's not Bendigo :)).
In these challenging times the keys are to;
Communicate with your banker so they know how you personally as well as the business are going i.e. don't stick your head in the sand
Demonstrate that you as an owner are pro-actively adapting your business e.g. by cutting unnecessary expenses or finding new ways to produce and sell your product or service
Demonstrate that you are using any spare time created by a slowing business to undertake planning to give your business the best chance of success. Your chances of securing the help you might need from your bank will be enhanced when it is clear you have a solid business plan and you as owner understand deeply how the business operates and where the future opportunities are
SpecificallyJoe reinforced the need for a;
Robust business plan
Clear description of the purpose of a new loan or lending assistance when discussing finance with your bank
Detailed summary of historical financial performance and credible forecasts for your business to establish viability and serviceability. He noted however that given current challenges his bank, at least, understood that your current financial performance may be severely affected by uncontrollable, external influences and would take that into account in their assessment
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Carmen Williams from Global Teams on partnering with Virtual Assistants to grow your business.
00:27:50
@CarmenWilliams is the #founder of @GlobalTeams which has grown into a business consisting of 82 #VirtualAssistants. For Carmen (controversially :)) outsourcing isn't about businesses handballing a problem elsewhere for it to be “magically solved.” At #globalteams they help client's get more from a fuller understanding of #outsourcing and how to best manage finding and working with #businesspartners.
In this discussion, Carmen shares more on how they support businesses through having a #va as a #teammember. We also cover;
her own experiences starting various businesses
quitting a ‘stable’ job to start a business from passion and interest
How #changingcareerpathwaysoften brings invaluable experience, background and “transferable skills”
the future of outsourcing
the different roles Virtual Assistants can play in your business
how to get the most out of a Virtual Assistant
the need for a #collaborativeapproach and how that makes it easier for your VA to become a part of the team
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Bill Lang from Small Business Australia on the critical importance of a flourishing small business economy.
00:27:50
Bill lives & breathes small business.
He takes us through his work as Executive Director of Small Business Australia https://www.smallbusinessaustralia.org/ which has a simple philosophy that he believes boils down to three things;
To see things simpler
To see things fairer, and
To see things better
In this episode Bill talks about;
His own small business background, including the legendary Doctor Dog, founding fathers of the Melbourne street food scene
What he learnt at Harvard University that is useful to all small business owners
What small business owners can do to educate themselves and improve their business performance
His top tips to survive challenges brought on by Covid19
The importance of communicating with staff, suppliers, financiers and others important to the business
The important role that small businesses have in local communities
The #buylocalcampaign recently launched by Small Business Australia
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Chairman at @SisterCityPartners (a not for profit regional investment banking enterprise founded to build resilient regions)
Chairman at www.BeefLedger.io (a blockchain enabled integrated provenance and payments platform development and implementation in the beef supply chain)
Adjunct Professor at QUT
He also has an extensive understanding of China, Australia, trade relations
In this absorbing discussion Warwick talks about;
how Australian regions can better connect with the bigger markets immediately north of Australia.
why Blockchain as a technology is now 'hitting its straps' having been around about 12 and a half years
the main virtue of #blockchaintechnology - the ability for information, that many parties need to have confidence in, to be created and shared in a way so that all the different parties can depend on it
the problems in traditional information systems where the information that's been passed along from one player to another runs into a whole bunch of risks in terms of validity, accuracy, timeliness, authenticity, etc
what blockchain allows us to do - to ensure that all the players involved in a particular supply chain activity are involved in the key phases of information production, validation, storage, dissemination and consumption at the same time
the shared responsibility for data integrity in blockchain, which speeds things up, reduces costs associated with having to doublecheck things, and ultimately smooths out the ways in which supply chains work
how #beefledger uses #blockchaintechnology to improve the flow of information all the way through to the end consumer, but principally focused around the wholesale marketplace to ensure that owners of assets and buyers of assets can be confident in what they're buying
One of the things about the blockchain ecosystem is that a lot of effort over the last 10 years has gone into really what I would describe as back end or back office issues.
and why doubt equals discount and provenance equals profit
why when there is doubt around the veracity of the claims you're making about your product the marketplace will discount that
why when the marketplace has confidence in the provenance claims of the products they're buying provenance equals profit.
how to build a loyal customer base by building their confidence that what they're getting is more likely than not to be what it's meant to be
how at @beefledger they are trying to create the right incentive mechanisms using blockchain technologies and smart contracts that reward the pursuit of excellence
the reality that Australian production systems are often quite a bit more expensive than alternatives in other parts of the world, which means we really need to work very hard at the value proposition that that is sufficiently persuasive that says, look, it is a bit more expensive but there are the benefits
blockchain enabled digitized payments - the fast lane vs the slow lane
the need to ensure that there are sufficient pipelines for data flows.
the need to build capacity throuhgh #education not only in a very traditional sense, but also amongst #SMEs, to make sure that people don't feel alienated from these new technologies.
the growing marketplace for digital products In Asia because of their digital nativeness
how developing countries have been able to skip over some of the legacy infrastructure that we're still held back by and have moved straight into a mobile smartphone experiential market
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 2 - Francis Loughran, founder of Future Food, on being an industry pioneer, starting a business and then selling to key employees.
00:27:50
@FrancisLoughran generously shares his personal journey founding @FutureFood and then making the decision to move on from the business after more than 30 years. He started by spotting a market gap and then combined a passion for his work and industry with a lot of hard work to start FutureFood, a pioneering #foodandbeverage#consultancy.
Making the decision to leave the business you founded
Starting to think about about next steps
The importance of having open discussion during the process of leaving your business
What advisors and other business professionals were involved in moving on from his business
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Elise Brown What buying a business at 19yrs taught her
00:27:51
Elise Brown owns Fairdinkum Dogs www.fairdinkumdogs.com.au in #castlemaine. She was only 18 years old when she bought the business from a family friend (who was the second owner). That previous owner thought Elise was a great fit for the brand, and the product, because she had seen her riding her horse past her house, with her #BorderCollies on her tail.
Elise talks about;
buying your #firstbusiness at 18, and the second one soon after
how the opportunity to buy the business came about
nervously asking how much they wanted for the business, and within an hour chatting to the banks and previous business owners
why #Shopify is an amazing website (so you can upload your products onto the website but then with the click of the button you can be selling off @Amazon@eBay@Facebook@Instagram
how #Shopify was a really big turning point for my business
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
John Hall from Cactus Country on managing a family business.
00:27:51
Cactus Country https://www.cactuscountry.com.au/ was inspired by John's dad who while traveling in England saw the Chelsea flower show.
When he came back to Australia, he came back with the vision of tourism being something that would eventuate in Australia.
Everybody told him it would not work, especially given we are three hours north of Melbourne in the middle of nowhere. Everyone said 'you are mad'. So he was always on the back foot in a sense but got to prove everybody wrong. Probably in hindsight made him even more determined because I think he loves the challenge. He started with a quarter acre and bought a large collection from South Australia and traveled the world in the 50s collecting cacti and succulents, bringing them back to Australia at a time where there were no restrictions on what you could bring in.
John described the last few years at Cactus Country as "nuts". In the episode John talks about;
The transformation from a cacti farm to a large tourism-based destinations business
The day to day challenges of finding staff to run the business
How the business managed and thrived during Covid19
How they used social media and PR so successfully
How they diversified their revenue streams
The opportunities for collaborating with other businesses to the benefit of both businesses and the local economy and region https://richglenoliveoil.com/ and @Cafe3641
The opportunities in social media for regional businesses @murrayfarmgatetrail
The dynamics of working in a family business
Succession planning and transitioning from one generation to the next
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Andrea Roberts, Creative Strategist, transforming places and businesses.
00:27:51
Andrea Roberts www.andrearoberts.com.au transforms places through original ideas backed by accessible strategic planning frameworks and the type of story-telling that moves people.
She has worked across Australia from Broken Hill, to the northern rivers of New South Wales, to the Yarra Valley, to the Dandenong Ranges, the Great Ocean Road, Melbourne, and now Adelaide.
In this episode we chat to Andrea about;
Her absolute respect for culture and environment as the pillars on which we all stand
Her sense that the current challenges are creating a greater sense of community and sense of place
How this is impacting tourism
The way people travel and what they are looking for
The need for authenticity in their experiences
How we live in and engage with our communities
The resurgence in interest in home gardening, and sharing and gathering in the streets and walking in the parks
The sense of community and really strong identity in regional Australia
How to successfully engage all the stakeholders for change in local communities
The renewed need for collaboration vs competition
The importance of brand and understanding what you as a business or place really stand for
Harnessing the true emotional capacity of places to unleash latent potential
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Her business started in 2011 while studying Industrial Design at @RMIT in Melbourne and being on a traditional professional trajectory to #designfurniture. But an incident in Europe while on a study tour changed that. She got her period and asked a European friend if they a pad or a tampon? Her friend told her she did not use those and what followed was an education about the #menstrualcup.
In this episode we cover;
her personal experiences and lessons learned after she considered, and ultimately declined, an unexpected offer to sell a share of her business
getting really excited about this concept of a #reusableproduct, that you only have to buy once every ten years, that was also really good for the #environment
getting inspired and getting back to Australia to get started
getting increased #businessvalue from making the business less dependent on the owner
realising your business is an investment and cultivating value
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ronan Leonard innovation expert and business mentor on smarter ways to improve your business
01:05:59
Host @Michael Kerr and @Ronan Leonard a certified innovation professional and business mentor discuss Ronan's journey from an accidental entrepreneur to mentor in the small business space. The conversation delves into the;
how to overcome the daily challenges faced by small business owners
need for innovation and adaptation in a rapidly changing market
navigating stagnation in business
significance of allocating time and resources for innovation, and the various business models that can be explored
value of networking and learning from peers to drive business growth.
In this conversation, Michael and Ronan explore various strategies for business growth;
AI tools
Effective delegation
Marketing and innovation
Ronan shares insights from his 100-day startup challenge ( https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/start-up-to-profit-in-100-days-7231519804916912128/ )
Takeaways
Information is abundant, but context is often lacking.
Business owners often need an external perspective to see new possibilities.
Taking a step back can lead to greater long-term success.
Understanding different business models is crucial for growth.
Networking with peers can provide valuable insights and solutions.
Allocating time for innovation is essential for sustainability.
The market evolves, and businesses must adapt to stay relevant.
Intrinsic motivation drives small business owners to push through challenges. There are various ways to bring expertise into a business without hiring full-time employees.
Insourcing allows businesses to utilize external resources intelligently.
AI has the potential to disrupt job markets significantly.
Business owners should explore AI tools to enhance productivity.
Delegating tasks can free up time for business owners to focus on their strengths.
Real-world applications of insourcing can lead to significant cost savings.
Creating content efficiently can be achieved through effective team collaboration.
Marketing and innovation are crucial for business growth.
Community engagement and mentorship can enhance business success.
Learning from mistakes is essential for business development.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Stu and his @fourpillarsgin co-founders recently sold the last 50% of their business to Vanguard Luxury Brands, the Lion-owned distribution business. Four Pillars is an Australian success story.
Stu's has a lengthy background in food, wine, hospitality and travel. His other business and personal experiences include;
Founding @LiquidIdeas in 2013 - Australia's leading communications agency for food, drink, travel and lifestyle brands
Co-owning of luxury travel business Gregor & Lewis Bespoke Travel
President of the Australian Distillers Association (2014-current)
Director RUOK Day and OzHarvest for nine years
Former panellist on ABC's Gruen and regular media commentator
Masters in Marketing from the Melbourne Business School
Diploma in Wine Marketing from Adelaide University
Graduate of the AICD.
Has a daughter, a son, a wife and a passion for every sport imaginable.
We discuss;
starting a business,
going through an exit
contemplating life after that business
the power and importance of marketing
the value of external counsel in important business decisions
how to prepare for a business exit and ensure a smooth transition when the time comes to move on
the importance of passion in small business - learn how to harness your enthusiasm and drive to create a thriving and fulfilling venture.
Stu opens up about the emotional aspect of selling a business, the need for a strong plan for what comes next and debunks a some myths.
Myth #1: Exiting a business means you've made it and can retire happily.
Myth #2: Life after a business exit is all relaxation and no challenges.
Myth #3: The traditional concept of work-life balance
Timestamped summary of this episode: 00:00:01 - Introduction Stu Gregor is the guest on the Small Business Banter Podcast. He discusses his recent sale of Four Pillars gin and his role as co-founder of Liquid Ideas.
00:02:16 - Background and Experience Stu shares his journey from journalism to the wine industry and eventually founding Liquid Ideas, a communications agency. He highlights the value of being both an advisor and a doer in business.
00:07:08 - Lessons Learned from Four Pillars Stu reflects on his experience with Four Pillars gin and the lessons he learned as he built the brand. He acknowledges the value of lived experience and how it enhances his advisory role.
00:09:09 - Transition and Future Plans Stu discusses the challenges of transitioning out of Four Pillars and the conflicting advice he receives about what to do next. He expresses his energy and excitement for new ventures and ideas.
00:10:45 - Uncertainty and Possibilities Stu shares his current state of uncertainty and the various ideas he has for his future endeavors. He highlights his desire for change and the constant generation of new possibilities.
00:15:13 - The Role of the Ex Co-founder Stu Gregor discusses his role as the ex co-founder of Four Pillars and compares it to being a loose player in the back line in the AFL. He highlights the freedom he had to roam and go where he pleased, without an official role.
00:18:29 - The Genesis of Four Pillars Stu shares the story of how Four Pillars started in the back of a friend's shed in the Yarra Valley. He explains how they raised money from 20 investors and focused on building the best gin distillery business, without initially considering an exit plan.
00:21:18 - Building Something Worthy of Attention Stu emphasizes the importance of building something successful before considering an exit plan. He cautions against starting a business with the sole intention of getting out, and highlights the need to be all in and passionate about what you're building.
00:23:35 - Timing and Luck Stu acknowledges the role of timing and luck in the success of Four Pillars. He mentions that they entered the gin industry at a time when there were fewer competitors, giving them an early mover advantage. He also highlights the need for a world-class product to stand out in a crowded market.
00:26:04 - Expertise and Industry Knowledge Stu emphasizes the importance of expertise and industry knowledge, citing their combined 50 years of experience in the drinks industry as a major advantage. He advises aspiring entrepreneurs to assess
00:31:37 - The Beginning of Four Pillars Gin The guest talks about how Four Pillars Gin started gaining recognition, winning awards, and expanding its distribution. They emphasize the importance of not just having a great product, but also marketing and selling it effectively.
00:32:57 - Building a Business The guest explains that their goal was to create a viable business that would employ many people and contribute to the development of the gin category. They reflect on their success in creating unique gin flavors and establishing themselves as a leading brand in Australia.
00:34:21 - Attracting Attention The guest shares that larger spirits companies, like Diageo, started taking notice of Four Pillars Gin's success. They had meetings with representatives of these companies, who expressed interest and admiration for their brand. This sparked the guest's curiosity about potential opportunities for the business.
00:37:02 - Seeking Advice The guest realizes the need for external advice and engages the services of Canterbury Partners, an advisory firm specializing in mergers and acquisitions. They stress the importance of getting expert guidance in navigating the complex process of potential acquisition or investment.
00:40:58 - Getting Expert Counsel The guest emphasizes the value of having external counsel during negotiations with potential buyers. They believe that having a third party advocate for your interests can help maintain a positive relationship with the buyer and prevent conflicts that may arise during the negotiation process.
00:46:55 - Building a Strong Relationship with the Buyer The guest discusses the ups and downs of the deal but emphasizes the importance of having a strong relationship with the buyer, which provides comfort and allows for continued investment in the business processes.
00:47:30 - Challenges and Distractions in 2019 The guest shares that finalizing the deal in 2019 was a stressful process as it required a lot of time and expertise. They also mention their decision to sell only 50% of the business and work on unfinished projects.
00:49:13 - Navigating the Challenges of 2020 The guest discusses the impact of the pandemic on their business, with international markets and on-premise markets closing down. They had to adapt by selling gin online, delivering cocktails, and even making hand sanitizer.
00:51:23 - Negotiating the Second Tranche of the Sale The guest talks about how the pandemic affected the mechanics of the second tranche of the sale and the need to renegotiate the terms. It took several months to reach an agreed price that would benefit both parties.
00:54:57 - The Importance of Building a Brand The guest emphasizes that a brand is the most valuable asset in the industry. Buyers are not just interested in physical assets but also in the brand's customer loyalty, awareness, and love. Building a brand can differentiate a business and make it more attractive for sale.
01:04:02 - The Challenges of Small Business Stu emphasizes that starting and running a small business is challenging but incredibly satisfying. He encourages people to pursue their passions and find work that stimulates and fulfills them.
01:05:21 - Work-Life Balance and Personal Growth Stu discusses the concept of work-life balance and suggests that if work is enjoyable and fulfilling, the need for balance diminishes. He shares how his experiences in small business have helped him grow as a person and become a better human.
01:06:30 - The Relentless Slog of Small Business Stu acknowledges that running a small business is a relentless and challenging journey. However, he highlights that the hard work can be highly gratifying and invigorating, especially if you are passionate about what you do.
01:07:17 - Leaving with Grace and Planning for the Future Stu advises that when the time comes to exit a small business, it's important to do so gracefully and not criticize or undermine those who take over. He also emphasizes the need to have a plan for what comes next to maintain a sense of purpose and fulfillment.
01:08:21 - Reaching Out to Stu Stu shares that anyone interested in connecting with him can reach out to him on LinkedIn. He thanks Michael for the conversation and expresses his enjoyment.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Darren Clark talks about helping his clients convert ideas into businesses, and why they benefit from his own, very rich business building and exiting experience.
00:52:11
@Darren Clark is the founder at @Dazlab where he and the team work with founders, business owners, creatives, technology people, and investors to get digital products off the ground and to market.
Darren started because he knew there was a better way to build digital products for people with great business ideas who needed help to build their vision. And he brought significant personal business experience, and some battle scars to starting Dazlab;
co-founded a digital creative agency, called Webling, where we won many, many local and international awards over a decade.
founded real estate startup (Kohab) in the USA
In this episode Darren
shares his experiences as a multiple business founder, and the impact of exiting or near-exiting businesses
discusses the importance of building custom software to create revenue and assets for small businesses
reflects on the lessons learned from selling a business and the process of starting a new venture
emphasises the need for efficiency and specialization in business operations, and the importance of considering an exit plan
highlights the value of external advice and emotional support during the sale process and the importance of building relationships with potential acquirers
discusses the value of automating business processes and how it can make a business more efficient and profitable
shares case studies and highlights the importance of playing to your strengths and seeking professional help when needed
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Blake Hutchison from flippa.com on smart ways to get digital
00:27:51
Blake Hutchison, CEO of flippa.com explains why it's critical that small business owners own their digital real estate. And he gives us a host of smart ideas to make it happen.
Flippa is a marketplace to buy and sell digital assets or digital real estate including #eCommerce businesses #contentsites #blogs, #fbabusinesses backed by Amazon #Amazonstores #Amazonassociates #contentsites #apps. All of it is #digitalrealestate.
And all these assets can be bought or sold on #flippa.
In our discussion we talk about;
how important it is to be digitally up to speed
how without a digital presence today you are really limiting opportunities because it is the way that consumers, either business or in consumers, individuals, will now first engage with a brand and more often than not, it is their pathway to choosing a business be that the local cafe all the way through to the local landscape architect, all the way through to an Etsy shop selling handmade furniture. So, you have to be online
how digital is now more accessible than ever before to consumers
why it is also a lot easier than ever before for first-time digital entrepreneurs to either get started or to accelerate growth in their business through a first-time digital presence. And that is because everyone from #Google to #Facebook to #Amazon to #ATT, #YouTube to #WooCommerce to #WordPress have made these platforms readily accessible at a good price
why it makes sense for an offline traditional #rick-and-mortar or #servicebusiness to acquire a small digital asset to complement their #useracquisition
why your website is your best way to appeal to people who have never heard of you, and then advertising channels like Facebook and Google are your best and most cost-efficient way to get people to that website and then funnel them through to your brick-and-mortar offering and so what that boils down to is #audiencetargeting
how and when to best use the following 3 #platforms which are all affordable and available to anyone. And you do not need to be too technically savvy to get any one of those up and going.
#Shopify if you are looking to trade online, or
#Squarespace if you are looking to just have a footprint online that people can move to and find out more about your business address, your phone number, a little bit about what you are servicing, and what you provide, or
#WordPress to set up a blog if you are going to write some columns and about the services you provide
the good news for the less #techsavvy - you can outsource that work to someone very very cost-efficiently and you can do that through platforms like #Fiverr #Elance #oDesk and other platforms like them
why you should study your #competitors to help with running your business and getting the best #ROI on your outsourcing investment by #stackranking the ones that you think are best and the ones that you think best represent what you are trying to achieve. Drop those by way of a brief onto one of these freelancing platforms and get someone to deliver that for you
acquiring customers with budgets as low as $10 a day on a Facebook or Google to see what works for you
how to buy the right #digitalassets by using tools like the #SEMrush module on www.flippa.com - it helps to assess domain authority in the eyes of Google i.e. is it a credible website, getting credible traffic and with credible traffic
the value of #organictraffic where people want to read the content
why you absolutely want to own your own real estate. Facebook is a great engagement platform, but it is not yours. You do not own it. The quicker you can get a customer from that environment into your own, the better off you will be long-term
key trends in the buying & selling of digital assets;
why you are better off buying than you are starting. With the failure rate of a startup so high you can assess the success of a business that has a trading history, so therefore it it can be a safer opportunity for many people.
#unemployed looking to get into the digital economy for the very first time
#sophisticatedinvestors entering the space to buy micro assets - @blakehutchison has never seen anything like it! #privateequity and other #sophisticatedinvestors are amassing and aggregating small digital assets. So they are no longer looking for things that are $5, $10, $50, or a hundred million dollars to buy. Many of them are buying supporting businesses to bolt on to existing assets.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
For #smallbusinessshe sees brand as a competitive weapon against the big end of town.
She came from the design and marketing side of #brand that she is now quite vocally opposed to but this gives her a little bit of an insight for the #brandstuff she talks about now.
That industry experience forced her to start asking different questions, and those different questions exploded a whole different way of thinking. As a result she moved to her role of being a counsel and really helping people understand brand as a much deeper result of everything they do as an organization rather than this thing that they prop up and create, stick in a corner, and redo every few years. In our discussion we cover;
how brand is something that has actually become almost like a proxy for how people talk about an organization
why If you consistently break your promises then you're going to really find it hard to stay in business.
the definition of a promise - effectively how you communicate what you intend
explicit promises eg "we will get it to you by Friday"
implicit promises eg how we tell people we will behave
thinking about a brand is being essentially a result of a set of stuff, that plays out across everything you do as a business
and, what is that set of stuff - #purpose and #values - what's most important to you? What do you care about? What are your values? How do you do things around where you are?
@unheroicwork - the 4 things that you do as a business on a day-to-day basis that in sum help form the brand;
If you talk to people, what do they say that you care about?
What do they say that they think you stand for? Does that line up with what you think it is? If not, why not? What am I doing or not doing that I should be?
#theruleofthreeandten - as soon as you add a third person, everything changes, then everything changes again at ten
when a brand is born or starts - the minute you open, the minute you put pen to paper and register your business name, you are off and running - the brand is forming around you.
signals of a #badbrand eg you've got a revolving door in staff
her first question when working with new clients - "When don't people work out around here?"
her favorite brand - @patagonia
another brand she isn't so enamored with @uber
her strong message for #SMEs - you have a massive advantage over a large enterprise. When it comes to embracing this way of thinking about brand and really using it as an advantage because you are smaller, you have an intimacy with the people in terms of closeness to the people who work for you.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
the need for business owners to take responsibility and say;
I want to learn this stuff
I want to know how it works, and
What I can do better
when the best accountancy practitioners in the world can't help you
@Jack Stack and the Great Game of Business, which effectively teaches the importance of finance and sharing financial information with the entire company. in order to get everybody on board and understand how to play the game
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
a wonderful campaign at the moment called the www.worldstodolist.org who are asking everyone in small steps or large steps to take them on board to work towards making a better planet, a better and more #sustainableenvironment for everyone, a more equitable world
why it's important whether you are an individual, a #school, a #notforprofit, a #smallbusiness, a large corporation to take these on in some small way, and to work together
how surprisingly everyone is often already doing something already - they just didn't have it mapped already to a goal
how it all started for Annie by resigning from her teaching job, which she really loved, to launch @FOTG in 2019 to deliver greater #globalimpact
becoming a Teach Sustainable Development Goals Ambassador and promote the global goals wherever she went
the up's and down's of starting your own business - the leap of faith, when the easy option would have been to stay teaching where she was very happy and just roll in, roll out
extending into educating businesses, #NFPs, #NGOs and government organizations about the #SDGs
why young students are the future
what makes up contemporary education - #designthinking, and 21st-century skills of #problemsolving, and #innovation, and #questioning and #reasoning - that's how they're learning at the moment. So they are willing to step up and have a go and try different things, and it's completely different style of education
why people need to work out what they can do to help make our planet a better place for everyone
SDGs' Sustainable Development goals in #smallbusiness
how #businessowners can become a part of this more easily - starting with something they think is interesting and resonates
the wwwglobalgoals.org website and the many ideas and resources out there for businesses, for schools, for corporations
the "start small and build on" approach to avoid being overwhelmed
the major projects Annie is involved with at wwwtake3.org where she is designing and facilitating aa young leaders programs and #ProjectBlue involving a couple of hundred students (10 to 12-year-olds) on what makes a leader all through the lens of #plasticpollution and #oceanconservation. The students were all engaged to do waste audit and to complete a 14-day challenge that aimed to change their behavior in some way, and then taking it further, by telling people, 3 people, what you're doing so then they would tell 3 people - the ripple effect
how #covid has told us or taught us is that the world is just truly connected - what happens on one side of the world affects the other side of the world, and we're foolish. If we think we're sitting in our own little silo, and it doesn't affect us, and it does. So we do need to work together to see if we can get these goals achieved by 2030
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
How the Marino Rocks Community Coop formed and then rallied to buy their fav local cafe (aka meeting place) before it became another property development
The #owner had attractive offers to sell the site to a #propertydeveloper but instead sold to the newly formed #coop which ensured that the #business stayed as a central #localmeetingplace.
It's an inspiring example of #communitypower and taking the initiative to form the #coop and buy this critical local business. In our discussion we cover;
working with @bccmua and the process for registering the #coop
why this #cafe and #meetingplace was so important in #marinorocks #southaustralia - without it the community wouldn't really have anywhere else that it can gather, to eat together and to have a glass of wine in the evenings
how they rallied #locals and recruited members who ended up being locals and visitors from further afield
how they then financed and purchased the business and #businesspremises
the history of the #café back (1961 ) and it's origins as a #fishandchipshop, then #caferestaurant
why the #businessowner was so instrumental and passed over more money to be part of it
the #founders practical learnings for aspiring #coops
and finally the big realisation - "If we don't do it, it's not going to happen" and away goes this business which was and remains a key part of the local commercial and social infrastructure
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
her approach to and philosophy on managing it all;
no compromises
being willing to accept that responsibility and doing all that you possibly can to deliver on what you are responsible for
the relationship with their animals from an agricultural perspective - and having this real sense of responsibility for their #animalwellbeing
crucible moments, in particular with the implosion of @MurrayGoulburn (noting she joined the board after all that occurred) - and the responsibility to make the best of the ruins of what was a 60 year old farmer-owned company, and being able to deliver back to the farmers, the investment that they had made quite often over decades was probably one of the things that I am most proud of
the perennial challenges of #globaltrade which we're seeing playing out in the media now
the challenges of climate change
her frustration with the ongoing negative discussions about agriculture and the link to why (unsuprisingly) young people don't want to pursue agriculture as a career -
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Michael Kerr from Kerr Capital on why some owners need to consider a DIY sale and what's critical for success.
00:27:50
@Michael Kerr from @kerrcapital is an experienced adviser to business owners. Michael knew that for a range of reasons some #smallbusinessowners were unable to access quality advice, or the advice and support needed was uneconomic. As a result he designed a program (The DIY Business Sale program) to ensure those owners had access to the best advice on selling a business. The format is easy for owners to follow and it ensures the business is given every chance to sell while avoiding ten's of thousands in broker fees.
In our discussion he talks about;
Who a #DIY (do-it-yourself business) sale option is for, and why ?
Why time becomes the biggest lost opportunity for owners
The neagtive impact minimum and/or flat rate success fees can have on your business sale
How the time frame for selling a business impacts owners
The limitations of traditional business sales strategies
How to get the most of out of a DIY approach to ensure it is as effective as possible
9 examples of different business sale scenarios where DIY is an effective approach, including:
When you already have a buyer lined up
When your business is particularly unique, or complex to understand
When it's potentially damaging for the business to widely promote that it's for sale, and you want to have more control over who and where your business is advertised
The pro's and con's for a DIY approach, including:
Saving owners money on fees associated with a sale through a business broker
Shortening the sale timeframe by taking control of timeline
Being in control of preparing the business and what information is being shared
Tips for making a DIY approach more worthwhile, including:
How to let people you know your business is for sale without traditional advertising
How to negotiate and communicate with buyers
The importance of continually updating your businesses information
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 1 - Lloyd Polkinghorne on how integral buying and running the local community newspaper was in his physical and emotional recovery from a traumatic injury sustained while working on his farm.
00:27:50
@LloydPolkinghorne was a #ricefarmer upuntil a #traumaticbraininjury caused by a mis-firing shotgun. After years of struggling physically and emotionally he needed to 'get back on the horse'. He did this by buying his local community newspaper www.thebridgenews.com.au . It was a bold and brave step. He made it with full support of family and an internal sense that he had to do something, knowing full well farming still wasn't an option.
In our discussion we cover;
the importance of having something meangingful to do
#Smallbusiness as a vehicle for physical and emotional recovery
the impact on an in individual when work is removed from their life #purpose
how the opportunity to buy the local #communitynewspaper brought purpose and the opportunity to represent the community he had grown up in
assessing the opportunity to take over the a business
how Lloyd’s #farming background taught him to be adaptable and think outside of the square which is what he had to do after his move into another profession
what Lloyd learnt during the process of buying; in particular the process of being tapped on the shoulder to take over the newspaper
the importance of having a good advisor during the process
the role small businesses, including the local newspaper, play in a community and how the paper gives community members something to enjoy that is incredibly important to their routine
how the local newspaper has become a key advocate for #ruralcommunities when it comes to state governments and electorates
addressing the challenges that can arise running a rural newspaper due to differing views across the community
balancing the #247newscycle that comes with running a newspaper and your personal life
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Richard Thomas from Wormlovers and other enviro-centric businesses talks about what factors shaped his eclectic career and business life
00:27:51
@richardthomas is #cofounder of @wormlovers where he is a #wormfarmer #breedingworms and the business supplies, services and educates on everything to do with #composting #nutrientcycling #soil #worms.
Richard went to #Artschool@sydneycollegeofthearts in Sydney and evolved an #artpractice, which was around very much focused on #ecology#conservation#sustainability#environmentalism. The businesses were also built, ground up, on the same foundational principles. It's a ripping chat with someone who does care, you'll hear it the way he speaks and see it in what has done - in the episode Richard talks about;
Welcome to another edition of Small Business Banter. This morning, I've got in Richard Thomas. Richard has a really diverse business background. We're going to chat to him about these businesses. He’s a founder of @Wormlovers which is-- he's a worm farmer, and we'll talk about recycling, environmentalism. He's also co-founder of the @BoogieMusicFestival and a founder of another @Treecreds, which is a carbon reduction project. It's a really interesting mix, but firstly, welcome in Richard Thomas. Great to have you in our studio.
Richard Thomas: Thanks, Michael. Great to be here.
Michael: Perhaps you just want to expand a little bit on those three ventures that you've been involved in, and then we can pick up a couple of conversations around them.
Richard: I guess, starting off with the Wormlovers, really, it's been something I've been doing for about 20 years I was a sole trader until around 8 years ago, and then we established it as a Pty Ltd business. But, nearly 20 years of #breedingworms and doing everything to do with #composting and #nutrientcycling and #soil and #worms, from that perspective. #Boogiefestival started about 15 years ago, and that came out of my experience. I worked for 20 years on the #BigDayOut festival as a kind of art coordinator and then, that evolved into running a part of the festival with a stage and various other activities, working in the core team of the Big Day Out from its inception, right through until when it finished, I think about 6 or 7 years ago. And through that... what my journey has very much been things have just come up. I don't know how much planning has gone into it. It's just sort of like being somehow an accidental but sort of interesting journey.
Originally, I went to #Artschool in Sydney and then evolved an art practice, which was around very much focused on #ecology and #conservation, #sustainability, #environmentalism. So, these other projects that are being involved in have always been related to that sort of foundational, sort of vocation, I guess, as an #artist. And I had a quite long career as a practicing artist and showed in my work in probably about 15 different countries and had commercial galleries and was pretty much active in that world for 20, probably nearly 30 years.
Michael: Wow.
Richard: The Big Day Out was a gig that provided me with enough income to sort of subsidize my art practice. So, that was what was going on for most of those years. And then, I've always had a really strong interest in, I guess, #nature and #naturalprocesses. When I was a teenager after I left school, I went live with my uncle down in #Tasmania. This is in the late 70s, early 80s. He was #livingofftheland there, I guess you'd call him a-- he’s not a sort of a hippie-ish looking guy, but I guess some of his values are very much about #backtoearth, you know, #growinghisownfood and he and his family had #drafthorses, they had their own #sheep, they're making their own clothes at a huge #veggiegarden, they would make #beehives, they were #makingtheirownbooze and generally living off the land. So that was a really influential experience for me.
Michael: You lived there as a teenager, or?
Richard: Yeah. I think when I was about 17, for a couple of years I lived down there. So that was a really profound experience for me. At that time, there were a lot of people, maybe similar to what's going on at the moment. It was a lot of people who were just fed up with the mainstream world, and people moving down to Tasmania, a lot of young people, people from different parts of the world. You know, the land was cheap and there were a lot of people who were building their own house, going #offgrid, and stuff, which is now sort of becoming again. It's coming back into the mainstream a bit more, but at that time, there was a real kind of sense of movement happening.
Michael: Yeah.
Richard: So that's the kind of background.
Michael: So, you talked about-- it's not opportunistic, but you know, there were things that piqued your interest, say, you'd go after it?
Richard: Yeah, that's right. And so, when I went to Art school in Sydney, I'd already had that experience, living in the country and being really connected to all these natural processes. So, that's sort of carried on into my developing art practice.
Michael: What art were you producing, Richard?
Richard: Well, I went to @SydneyCollegeoftheArts, which is an incredible place and an incredible time to be doing that. The '80s were a really incredible time to be an artist. So many ideas and so many different streams going on. Painting sort of returned. There were also a lot of conceptual ideas around and it gave me the opportunity to try out a whole lot of different media and different approaches, but always around sort of nature, somehow connected to nature. So, initially, I went to do photography, and then I jumped into the painting department, and then I moved on later to more installation work, even some video work. But mostly, painting and installation work, and often using natural materials or landscape paintings, photography, yeah.
Michael: It really does sound like that experience living off the grid in Tazi[?] was quite formative for you because I think Wormlovers is a recycling environmental business wholly, but I think Boogie Fest was really differentiated itself based on its environmentalism credentials. Is that right?
Richard: Yeah.
Michael: You know, you were really looking hard to tread lightly on the earth.
Richard: Yeah, absolutely. And I think... you know, I started Boogie Festival with some really great friends who are-- a lot of those relationships that evolved out of the Big Day Out, and we used to go to a lot of festivals together, and so, we just came up with this idea of doing a festival. But it's always been a passion of mine to consider the environmental impact of everything you're doing, to me, that's a sort of fundamental principle that I think everyone should adopt, really. So, it's not just a sort of sense of going. We've got this guy; he's doing a bit of green stuff on the side. And then we'll just keep doing what we're doing because we're sort of taking care of the environmental stuff. I think that sort of attitude often with some businesses, I think, with some corporations, in particular, can be a bit of a problem because it's just the sideline, the guys that are doing the sustainability stuff.
But with Boogie, we tried to really embed that with things, like we introduced--- We got rid of #disposablecups, so we had plastic pots for all the beers. We brought in #onsitecomposting, we'd set up a whole sorting operation site and[?] all of that to increase our recycling. And we did a carbon offset, I think that that was through Treecreds, which is another enterprise that I'd started. And the idea of that was that when you came to the festival as a punter, you would be able to purchase a #carbonoffset for your #travelemissions to the festival.
Michael: Yeah. So rather than paying not lip service, necessarily, but like as you say, the bigger groups, bigger companies might have sustainability area.
Richard: Yes.
Michael: Boogie Festival is ground up. The whole thing is built around a few core values, one of them which is environmentalism. So, you mentioned, people-- and as we've interviewed on this program, quite a few people involved in, I guess, activating #regionalareas and more people are moving to the regions. But do you think environmentalism is at risk at the moment? Or do you think it's the best opportunity it has ever been for people to reconsider how they treat the environment? It's strange times we're in.
Richard: Yes, it’s certainly strange times. And I think it's a complex question because there's so much that is going on, and there's so much that isn't going on that needs to happen, really. I feel like these certain parts of the world that-- or sectors of the economy or demographics or whatever you want to call it, people who are really moving ahead quickly with this stuff. And I feel like there's a big lag there as well. So, it's hard to put your finger on it and generalize about it because there's so much activity, but I still feel a little bit like, you know, sustainability is something that people are talking about, generally more than they're actually doing. And I think part of the problem is that we've fundamentally lived in a world, which is all of the systems were built up in the structure of the global economy. And the way that the industrialized world works is it's heading in one direction, which is unsustainable. So, it's like turning around a gigantic supertanker, you know?
Michael: Yes.
Richard: Yeah, it's a long process, and we have to change people's attitudes as well as their behavior.
Michael: [crosstalk] And you've had a really good crack at doing that, and as a businessperson as well, right? Through Boogie Festival, which I think, sadly, that we've had the last Boogie Festival we're going to have, are we? Is--
Richard: Yeah. Well, there might be another festival but we're just not sure this time, obviously, stating the obvious. But you know, a situation with events is so uncertain. It's already become-- the game's changed a lot from the days when something like the Big Day was happening. Anyway, it's much harder to sell tickets that the costs are going up in the event industry. There are a lot more #compliance and #hurdles and complexity and cost that goes into putting on these events while, you know,-- and it's harder to sell tickets so it's a much more difficult #businessmodel to maintain. So--
Michael: It seems like there's maybe a move to these micro[?] owner, it's like called micro festivals, but smaller, more niche festivals, I mean, plenty of people are getting to the regions. But, look on today's episode of Small Business Banter, we're talking right now with Richard Thomas.
Richard, another way you've kind of lived out and your sort of core personal values, I think, is through Wormlovers. Do you just want to kind of give us a snapshot of what Wormlovers does right now?
Richard: Yes. So, we started Wormlovers, as I was saying, about 8 years ago, and really, there were a number of reasons for setting it up. And I guess the core, the main sort of motivation was really #my passion and my #businesspartner, Gail Davidson's passion for what we were doing. And the sort of-- and also, the sense that there was a time, it felt like it was the right time to do this. I'd had this idea in the back of my mind for a long time of sort of specializing in worm farming and home composting and developing an enterprise which would kind of be part education but part commercial. So, the vision part of it is really important. We do, you know, we have to educate-- we feel like part of what we're doing in Wormlovers is kind of inspiring people to change the world with a worm farm.
Michael: I think, one that your tagline or motto is "Love the worm, love the world"?
Richard: Yes. And you know, I feel like there's this fascinating thing happening that maybe a lot of people are not aware of, you know, that the species like the worm, the #compostworm, or the #earthworm is so fundamental to our lives. We wouldn't be here without soil, without healthy soil because all of our food comes and all the higher creatures on earth really are dependent on the ecology of the soil. It regulates climate, it's connected to water - the water cycle, it's connected to the nutrient cycle in particular, of cycling nutrients from food and #organicwaste back into the soil, being replenished or back into a worm farm or a compost bin and turning back into healthy nutrients to create more food and more plants and more wellbeing. So, we see ourselves as a vehicle to provide the ability for individuals, both in a home, but also across the board of anyone who eats food. From schools to cafes to councils to, you know, you name it, anywhere where there's food waste produced is a potential site to engage in this process, this incredible process of setting up a worm farm and cycling your organics on the spot, so--
Michael: I can hear the purpose of the connection with that core purpose and in the way you talk, but it's taking on a lot to-- You know, when you talk about having a business that is commercial and also educational, it's a big task, isn't it?
Richard: Yeah.
Michael: To educate through your business, a very honorable one. Wormlovers operates out of a precinct, currently where you've got. It's in... is it Werri...?
Richard: Yeah, Werribee.
Michael: Werribee, yeah. And so, as part of a complex of a few #environmentalbusinesses down there, but you are farming worms and you're reselling related equipment for households and for small businesses, I guess?
Richard: Yeah, that's right. So just to sort of summarize that, these different aspects of the business. And I guess our core business is really our #onlineshop. The operations yard is really there to support the online sales, but also, any commercial work we're doing. We leased some land from @MelbWater out of the #Westerntreatmentplant, and that's where we actually breed our worms, and there are some byproducts from that process. We have big beds that where we breed the worms and we feed them on a mixture of different #feedstocks, #manures, and #coffeegrounds, and #organicwaste. And then, we package those worms up. We also store our inventory of composting products worm farms, such as we import a worm farm from #NewZealand in container loads, called the @hungrybin, which had been probably the best design worm farm that we've ever come across. We have a range of accessories and things that we sell as well. So that yard, basically, supports our online part of the business through online sales. And then, we also do sort of outreach work where we-- and sadly, with the lockdown, this has been one of our struggles as it is for so many small businesses. There's a lot of that work that involved us going out on site. You say got going into a restaurant or a school or a council to set up worm farms and educate people on site.
Michael: You just haven't had the opportunities?
Richard: No, we just did-- All of those big facilities have just been shut down or so restricted. So, what's happened there is that immediately, people are not eating food because they're not at all on-site. So, there's almost no food right on those sites. There's no--
Michael: Everyone's at home.
Richard: Yeah, so that's been a real struggle for us because part of what we would do is going out-- Well, particularly around, obviously around Melbourne, and help people set up and troubleshoot their worm farms. We also had a number of contracts; our biggest client was the @cityofMelbourne. With the lockdown, they had to shut down all of their sites and so we lost that contract to actually help. We had about half a dozen sites, and we do monthly or regular visits to work with the staff and just keep the worm farms in good health. We also had gardens that we're managing, so often, we'd set up really high yield #containergardens and some of these gardens are on #rooftops and in schools and in line-wise around Melbourne and community centers and things like that. So anyway, all of that work was lost with the lockdown sadly so that's been one of our struggles.
Michael: Yeah, as you said, it's affected so many businesses and so many people and really forces you to rethink the way you do business. And, you know, we all need that inspiration when things are particularly tough, so personally, with Wormlovers, you're probably getting to the point where that's seen natural cycle, you move on...?
Richard: Yeah. I think after 8 years of just eating, sleeping, as is for almost small business owners, you know, it just takes over your life.
Michael: It can completely dominate, particularly, when someone like you who is so connected, enthusiastic, with the reason the businesses is there.
Richard: Yeah. [crosstalk] No, you're absolutely right. And I think there are positives and negatives about that, being so connected to what you're doing because you've got to have a passion, you've got to have belief, and you've got to really get your up in the morning and believe in what you're doing. But at the same time, I think it's probably healthy to be able to maintain some kind of distance as well from what you're doing. And that's, I think, one of the struggles, I think that trying to find that balance can be difficult.
Michael: I don't know in the work I do that that many people get that right. You know, that maybe you get it right for a period of time and it's certainly not to say you shouldn't be aiming to find that a bit of a boundary between the two but, you know, sometimes, you can't help yourself.
Richard: That's right, yeah. And I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm sure these small business owners all over the country that have the same struggle of sort of, you know, they're still thinking about it late at night, you wake up in the morning, it's the first thing you think about, and just the ongoing, you know, it just doesn't stop, does it? So--
Michael: It doesn't stop and I think there comes a time-- you know, for you, there's a time when you start to think about perhaps a #newventure, a new pathway. So, in your case, I think you're looking at a venture in Tasmania?
Richard: Yeah, that's right. So, what I'm looking to do over the next couple of years is to basically work towards, maybe exiting Wormlovers or looking for a joint venture or reconfiguring it in some way or another. And obviously, putting a lot of thought into how that might manifest.
Michael: Yeah.
Richard: And then, looking at this project, down in Tassie, so I've had a share in a beautiful spot down on the #MerseyRiver in northern Tasmania, an old farm. And we're looking at sort of developing that as a sort of #sanctuary or #retreat. It'll be a multipurpose, sort of location for potentially-- It's got incredible #fishing there[?], so for as a fishing lodge, but also making it available for sort of events of one sort or another. We've had a couple of weddings. We've had some sort of parties down there, like 50th birthday or whatever. But also, for things like, maybe meditation, yoga, retreats, maybe somewhere for, you know, any kind of group to really go and be in this really beautiful natural environment surrounded by wilderness on this river. It's got a really incredible sort of vibe. So that's sort of what I'm looking at next, it's working on that. And that part of that will also be probably incorporating a lot of these sustainable, environmental kind of themes that I've been working on.
Michael: They're not going to go away from you, right? Those--
Richard: No [laughing]
Michael: It sounds like, also Tazi, you spent some formative time there, and you’re kind of going back there.
Richard: Yeah, it's like a full cycle. Yes. Nice.
Michael: Yeah. Just in closing, Richard, it's so wonderful to talk to business owners, that's what we're about on Small Business Banter, and sharing that. There's a pathway for you to move on from Wormlovers and on to something else, but I'm just keen in the last minute to kind of if you got some sort of tips or ideas or people that influenced you heavily in the way you go about running your day-to-day business that other owners could come[?] refer to.
Richard: Yeah. Well, I'm probably not the-- I probably don't-- maybe I'm not having a very clear way that I look at this., but I do tend to talk to other business owners. I think that's probably my main source of sort of understanding, and I'm always intrigued by how other businesses work. So, I'm always trying to find out, "How does that thing work?" You know, you see something that you've never heard of, and you go, "That's a business? That's fascinating. How did someone get that turn into a business?" I think that's part of the-- but I'm kind of inspired by people like @David Holmglen who started the #Permaculture movement. Obviously, not from a business perspective, but I guess I'm interested in the philosophy of working with nature and how sustainability works, so I do a lot of research in that area. So yeah, I guess it's--
Michael: I think the, you know, talking to other business owners-- as long as you're talking to somebody, right?
Richard: Yeah.
Michael: Ideally, some [inaudible] can kind of, you know, because it is a battle, and it's been hard, through the last 12, 18 months, especially. And sharing with other owners, which is kind of like this program, we often get on owners and they talk about their successes and their challenges. So, I think that's as good as any, you know, for other people listening in, talk to owners, like other owners like Richard does.
Richard, we're out of time. I just wanted to say thank you very much for sharing that fascinating background, that crossing over environmentalism, music, business. It's wonderful to hear. I really appreciate your time and I wish you well as you kind of move down to that next venture in Tazi and maybe pass on Wormlovers to somebody else to take up the fight.
Richard: Yeah, great. Thanks, Michael. I really appreciate it, it's great to talk to you.
Michael: Alright. Thanks, Richard.
Richard: Thanks. Bye-bye. See you.
Michael: So that's all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired, bringing new small business experts and other small business owners and hearing their stories and their experiences. For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today, or just to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com or find Small Business Banter on Facebook or Instagram. It'd be really great to have you tune in at the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.
[End]
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ben Lazzaro CEO Australian Made on the heavy-lifting Green & Gold Kangaroo
00:27:51
Ben Lazzaro is CEO of Australian Made Campaign Limited which administers the globally recognised Australian Made Logo. It's a very famous logo and a true mark of Aussie authenticity and has been around for 30 years. And right now it's more popular than ever and the opportunities for #SMEs are significant.
Being Australian and making Australian products is generally a positive in most markets, including domestically, so when you're buying Australian made products you're getting products made to some of the highest standards in the world, and that's from a quality and a safety perspective. And in certain sectors that's never been more important than right now.
Ben Lazzaro has a background in engineering, moved into doing marketing and communications for engineering and technical based firms and has been CEO since 2017 .
In our discussion we talk about;
How the Green & Gold Kangaroo does the heavy lifting because it is unique to Australia
The Australian Made Logo as a country of origin product certification trademark.
How products are licensed to carry this brand
The criteria (set by Australian Consumer Law) and the laws that govern making a Made In Australian claim
The mechanics of the substantial transformation test
The cost of using the logo which is essentially 1/10 of 1% of the turnover of those products
How the money raised gets pumped back into the campaign on compliance, auditing, things like that to protect the integrity of the brand, chase down misuse and the collective marketing campaign
The extremely pro Australian sentiment in the marketplace at the moment (which started as the COVID pandemic starts to take hold) and the reasons behind this
Saving jobs
The imbalance between local and imported products and over reliance on imports
The massive (400%) growth in applications to use the Australian made logo
The simple process for applying
How small businesses use the logo
The 34 classes of goods in Australia that can apply to use the brand
How #KidsClub ( teaching resources on our website) is growing the understanding of the positive attributes associated with buying Australian
The upside in Australia's clean great environment
Ethical labor and sustainability.
The research that found around 87% globally knew that this thing (the logo) meant there was an Australian produc and that even if they don't know our brands specifically, they know it's Australian, they know it's green and gold
The business opportunities and using the kangaroo in social media to grow a global audience
The opportunities domestically with 99% of Australians recognising and 92% trusting products carrying the Australian Made Logo
#manufacturingsovereignty #selfsufficiency
Investing in our local manufacturing capability - something that is a positive outcome from Covid-19 for Australian manufacturing with that focus on sovereignty, and self sufficiency, potentially giving Australian manufacturing be a bit of a positive 'jab in the arm'
The renewed focus from government, and a lot of funding, to generate manufacturing and manufacturing 4.0
How smaller manufacturers that will benefit from the fact that we're going to invest in skills here
Opportunities in electric cars, electric buses
How Volvo Trucks in Queensland is turning out 60,000 trucks carrying Australian made logo with, I think, half a dozen sites out there in Waco, Brisbane
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Prior to that she had a diverse career with experience as an author, writer, career-coach@IBM executive, auditor @PWC and skiguide @mtbuller.
After a lot of learning and constant recalibration she has what many aspire to have - a business that works for her (and not the other way around). She's in a good place and in this episode freely shares her;
Experience from starting the business to getting it to where it is now, and
Three biggest lessons for to help other business owners get to where they want to get faster and with less stress;
"0vercoming the fear that I had, and I know that many people have is that, Well, if I cut down to this niche, I'm going to cut everybody else off. But actually, you're much better off owning that space where you decide to niche, or where your specialty is than trying to appeal to everybody in a much broader audience especially in a service-based business"
Market research.
"I think it's very important to do the market research and to understand the #painpoints that the clients, the audience has, and you've got to start there and find out. Is the audience actually also willing to spend money on the problem that they've got?" There's no point in deciding, Oh, well, my target audience, my solution is, single mums who are struggling. If they have no money to pay for your $20K product."
"Do the #marketresearch and understand the problems and the wants of the target audience, and also, if they're willing to spend money on this problem. Even if it is painful because some people won't"
"Take it from me, one of my crazy ventures was, I opened a vegan cafe in 2002 in West Footscray. I didn't do the market research and let me tell you, I was 20 years ahead of my time"
"I resisted having a mentor or mentors or surrounding myself with other people for a very long time. I very much believed that I could do it and I could do it on my own because I'm smart enough, I'm serving enough, I can work it out and I will work it out and I'm determined, and I will get there because I will just keep going and I'm ambitious"
"Getting emotional support because the people in your family don't understand the challenges that you face as a founder. Only other founders get it. And you can speak to them in a way that you can't speak to your brother or your mom or your sister or whoever. They're not the same to talk to you about the challenges you face on a daily basis unless they're also business owners"
#soundingboards - the power of someone that you can talk to about the challenges that you're facing, whether that's paying payroll this month or even a trouble that you're having with a particular staff member or "Oh, we had our best month ever, but I don't want to brag to my non-business owner friends"
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Chan Uoy from Dimboola Imaginarium talks about making a treechange, setting up a new business, adapting to a different lifestyle and steampunk
00:27:51
@chanuoy is the co-owner of the @dimboolaimaginarium After more than 20 years in the #hospitalityindustry in #Melbourne involving owning 2 restaurants Chan desperately needed a change. He described #melbourne and #restaurantownership as a "conveyer belt of sameness and pure hard work" -a change had to be made. Long story short @dimboola is where he and partner now live and work. How they ended up making a #treechanage to Dimboola is an intriguing story of planning and serendipity.
Since arriving and inspired to create something unique as a destination they have acquired a 19th bank and built the @dimboolaimaginarium - a grand building with a fascinating history and ceiling high enough to house a 3.75 metre giraffe!
It was a big, brave move and in our Chan talks openly about the lead up, joining a new community, building a destination business as well as;
creating experiences
reading and architecture as a source of inspirations
Michael Kerr: Hi, it's Michael Kerr here. Presenting Small Bu[siness Banter. A healthy micro and small business sector means a successful economy and a more vibrant society. Small Business Banter is about helping regional business owners better prepare for current challenges, but also for the next stage of business success. I'm Michael Kerr, founder of Kerr Capital, advisors to business owners.
Michael: Each week, I interview a fellow small business owner or an expert and they share their stories, their lived experiences, the wins and the losses, and their best advice to help you, the listener, get the most you can from your own business. Small Business Banter is brought to you from the Studio's in 104.7 Gippsland FM, and is heard across Australia on the community radio network, and thanks also to Kerr Capital, supporters of the show.
Welcome to another edition of Small Business Banter Radio. I'm really pleased to have in @ChanUoy from the @DimboolaImaginarium. We're going to get Chan to talk about the Dimboola Imaginarium, but welcome in firstly, Chan.
Chan Uoy: Thank you, Michael. Good morning.
Michael: It's really wonderful to have you in. We met a couple of weeks ago when I was spending the weekend with some friends up at @Dimboola, and we got chatting, and that's how this interview came about was serendipitous. You and partner, Jamie, made a move to Dimboola about two years ago, but could you just give us a little bit of a backdrop of where you came from? When you came to Dimboola, and what the Dimboola Imaginarium is all about?
Chan: No problem. Well, everyone asks us how did we end up in Dimboola? And I generally say by accident. So what happened was, we have been fantasizing about getting out of Melbourne , for, say the last six years. We had a restaurant in Docklands for 13 years, but I start off in Yarraville in 1998. So we're one of the first in Yarraville to get a building and create a new restaurant in Yarraville. That was all that 20 years of hospitality, and I guess at the end I got really burnt out. I was actually really depressed leading up to moving to the country. It was a decision that I knew I had to make because I was depressed in the hospitality industry because it's a lot of hard work. Your life runs according to the clock. By a set time, you have to be out of here. I have done this.
So it was just a conveyor belt of sameness and pure hard work. So by the end, I was really depressed. And, of course, you need to make that call and to make that change. So we've been researching and fantasizing, and inspecting country towns, and homes for a while. So, when the opportunity came up, it was in @Stawell. So we discovered a beautiful mechanics institute building built in 1875 on Main Street @Stawell. It was perfect to create an Imaginarium there and we were going to call it. Mr. Inskip's Imaginarium because the architect was Mr. Inskip.
The building was magnificent because, in the basement, there was a Roman Stone, sorry, bluestone arches, but Roman arches and the foundation was granite, so it was really well-built. So you can imagine in the basement from the whole entire length of the building, you could create a wine bar. It was really quite spectacular.
Michael: Wow, you did contemplate going back into hospitality.
Chan: Yeah, that was just a vision but I wouldn't have done it. It was just really cool. You know what I mean? It would have been a cool space. Having come from hospitality you appreciate these things. But basically about creating restaurants: It's about creating worlds. And that's what I've learned from the last two businesses. Is that you think about what do you want your customers to experience? But also, what do I want to experience first and foremost? So, if I want to experience a particular world or environment, you create it. So that's what I've learned from the last two restaurants. You create your Ideal World Experience.
Michael: Yeah. In the restaurant or in those businesses, were you a chef? What was your...
Chan: So my background was accounting. So I think...
Michael: Not what I expected, but...
Chan: No, I did accounting and the reason why I realized I didn’t like accounting was I just want to go to auditing. I saw. Oh, no, I've chosen the wrong course. So, you know, look I've done it. I didn't like it only because I realize I like to create things. So you have a vision [crosstalk] and ...
Michael: And if you do that in accounting, you can get in an awful lot of trouble.
Chan: That's right. So I wanted to create something that, you know, that's real, you know, that's an experience and I guess I couldn't do that with accounting.
Michael: Yeah.
Chan: So, I mean, something happened early in my life where I just realized, I guess it was my first proper crisis I should say. So you talk about a person going through crisis, that was my first adult crisis that I went through. So it was a bit of a shake-up and that's why I decided to create my own world. And that's why we created the first restaurant in Yarraville because it's about creating my own little world.
I didn't like the politics and power games in the private industry, and I just want to get out of that and I wanted to create my own world where the first restaurant was with family. The typical migrant story. You buy a building and create your own business soo you become independent and autonomous and do your own thing. So, that's where it all started. It's that desire to be free. That was what started the first restaurant.
Michael: Yeah. And you got to a period of time and showed you had a second restaurant, but really just burnt out. You know, it's one way...
Chan: After 20 years? Yeah, because after 20 years I did start becoming successful, but your stress if you're busy or stress if you're quiet. You're stress all around.
Michael: Yeah, okay.
Chan: So my stress level was higher than an average person, but it was my normal. It was my new normal so you can see why I had to get out. So a #treechange stem from that because I knew how to address mental health and I guess physical health as well.
Michael: Yeah.
Chan: So if I had stayed in Melbourne now and not have moved to the country when I did in April 2019, I probably would have lost everything. [crosstalk] As a reality.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. So how did you go about ending up... You looked at Stawell? Dimboola's may be in, I don't know, an hour, hour and a half, is it? or maybe a bit longer from...
Chan: Yeah. So what happened was, once again, I can't make this up but stawell, The Mechanics Institute was used as a Bible College. So it's called the Australian Bible College. So they're on the extreme side of Christianity. So we saw like, we're aware of them because their Facebook posts were extreme to the point where, to give you an example of extremity, they described the #MelbourneWhiteKnight as demonic.
Michael: Okay.
Chan: Yeah. So because of that, we kept an eye on them on social media. So one morning a few days before Christmas, Jamie comes running out of the bedrooms so distressed. Oh my God, the owners of the Bible College are in prison in New South Wales for fraud. They were the ringleaders of 11 people for selling fake training certificates. Now, we couldn't make that up, you couldn't make that up. So we put a deposit on it. And of course, three weeks into it, I realized hasn't been signed and returned to me and now we know why because they were in prison in New South Wales for fraud. So because of that, we had to quickly look for other properties because our property in Melbourne was on the market to help fund our renovations because the Bible College didn't have a kitchen. So, we needed to have a kitchen and turn it into a home as well.
Michael: Yeah.
Chan: So we got the deposit back, thank goodness, but we had to quickly find an alternative property. So we did a list of five different properties, all unique because for us to move out of Melbourne, we wanted the property to be special to make moving out of Melbourne worthwhile.
Michael: Yeah.
Chan: There's no point moving out of Melbourne to move into an, I guess, ordinary property. For us, it wasn't the point. The point...
Michael: You've definitely haven't got an ordinary property. You've got an 1800s...
Chan: It's a 19th Century Bank, but the new brick building was built in 1909. So so the original bank was the Oriental Bank in 1883, it was a weatherboard building, but then that collapsed globally due to mismanagement. So the National Bank of Australasia purchased the building, and then they built this building in 1909 in nine months. So to give a description is built in the Renaissance style architecture. So it's got Greek and Roman elements. So really it was an emblem of Dimboola’s prosperity for the time.
Michael: Yeah. Okay, and it's a two-story, [crosstalk] substantial building that you've been in now, for, how many years?
Chan: two-story. Over two and a half years.
Michael: And there's living quarters, living upstairs. And so this, it's a good opportunity to talk about the Dimboola Imaginarium and what you've created there.
Chan: Yeah, so we wanted a special building because the building style of the building creates the experience. So when you think about it, architecture creates experience, and it tells a story. So for us, the building had to be special and hence going back to store, The Mechanics Institute Building, because that was a majestic building, Victorian era, that could convey what an Imaginarium is. And that's why, you know, we can't create an Imaginarium in a normal shop. It hasn't got the same oomf. It can't take you to a magic place. So, architecture plays a big role in it. So when you walk through the original bank chamber in the Imaginarium, you really do enter another world.
The ceiling height is four and a half meters high. Because it's four and a half meters high we can put that three-point-seven-meter giraffe because we want to create an otherworldly experience for patrons, but also for us because it is our lounge room as well. The bank is our private residence in the old days, the bank managers live on site. So upstairs is four-and-a-half bedrooms, lounge room, dining room, kitchen in the back. So before the bank shut, it was turned to a private residence. So, the shop is our Lounge room. So we want it to be nice for us, first and foremost, and of course, that conveys to customers.
Michael: So, what is an Imaginarium?
Chan: So an Imaginarium is just a place that inspires the imagination. So for me, I've always, I realized I do have an imagination, but I guess society sometimes tell you to suppress your imagination. You know my parents tell me to pursue other careers.
Michael: Accounting is a good career. [crosstalk] Which it is for some people
Chan: That was one of them. Yes. So I guess what got me through the dark periods of the restaurant world at the end was through reading. So I would read a lot of books. I would read books about, non-fiction books, of course, you know about history, architecture, but also about spirituality, and also about just humanity. What makes humans do? To understand more about where I was at? And I also read a lot of fiction as well. So fiction takes me to other places. So through reading that actually helped me get through the dark periods of days.
So for me, creating an imaginary room, really suited me because I could allow myself to be creative and free. And that's one of the reasons why we moved out of Melbourne was to find a place where we can create another world for ourselves that's different to the restaurant world, but our world that we want to create finally, and at the age that we are because this is the last big project. Then therefore when it comes to that, you realize what you've got. You actually want to do what you want to do, create what you want to create, and actually enjoy life again. So I have to say I'm the best space that I could be. I never thought I would get to this space. I thought it was just, it was just a long tunnel. I really didn't think I would see the light, literally the light, and I guess the Imaginarium has become a symbol of, I guess me, healing from the dark periods of my years in Melbourne.
Michael: I think, you know, to make a significant choice to move from Melbourne, you know, from successful businesses in and of itself is it's a huge move. But you've recognized that's what you needed to do.
On today's edition of Small Business Banter radio, I'm chatting with Chan, Uoy from The Dimbulla Imaginarium. There's a bit of a Renaissance going on right across the country for more. We've had a couple of guests on this show talk about people fleeing from major cities to the regional areas Dimboola carries, It's a pretty iconic name in Australian In folklore history, you've landed there. What are you hoping to achieve with the business? I mean, you've talked about the reason for wanting to escape Melbourne, to create something of your own, but what's the in a crude sense, the business model that you've got there? And how is it fitting in Dimboola and that, you know, the Silo Art Trail and all the other interesting things around the around the area?
Chan: I have to say, when we first got here, we ordered some firewood and an older man who delivered it said to us, "Don't do anything too ambitious. Some locals, may not like it." We came to that to that warning. So, of course, we clearly ignored that. So what we've done is in a sense, I guess for some people would be considered brave.
But what we did was something that we consider, that gave us Joy. So, by creating something joyful that people can experience for the first time that's completely different, completely unexpected. People don't expect to see this in Dimboola. You know, you see I've had feedback that is a shop you see in big cities like London or Paris. It's that sort of caliber because we've gone all out, putting all our work experience into the one space. So what is...
Michael: And it's a range. Its books. It's quirky.
Chan: It's a lifestyle. Yeah. So by creating that in Dimboola, which people never expected with locals. It's become a destination shop.
Michael: Right.
Chan: Yeah, so that's that's how I guess the Dimboola town has evolved to because, since we've opened, two other shops have opened. Two other unique individual shops, that you will never find anywhere else in Australia.
Michael: Right.
Chan: And that's what it's about. It's about creating. I think we've come full circle, the whole world, all the shopping centers around the world, all the same. It's the same brand.
Michael: Yea.
Chan: So what's happening with, in terms of Renaissance for Dimboola, is that people are creating very personalized, individual shops, that you can not find anywhere else in the world. So, and of course, now, there's another one coming up in, hopefully, the next few weeks, and that shop will be unique. It's got handmade things that's made in Dimboola. They've got items sourced from the Western Bloc, you know Eastern countries during the Cold War. Now, that's pretty cool. That's right. So so basically...
Michael: People will travel.
Chan: People will travel. And after Covid, when you've been in a lockdown for how many weeks for Melbournian's a four-hour drive out of Melbourne is liberating now. Before Covid, it was a chore. People would never contemplate that but because of Covid, people realize its freedom, absolute freedom. And also, it's a chance for them to discover their own backyard. Of course, the fact that they can't travel overseas as you know, that's been a benefit for regional Victoria.
So we're getting lots of first-timers coming to Dimboola, coming to #Wimmera for the first time. Because Wimmera is really the Last Frontier of our tourism because of the distance. If you're not going to South Australia, you really wouldn't be that motivated to come to Wimmer. But covid has changed that perspective. I think the Wimmeras got a lot to offer now. I've you know, I'm learning about the área, and the more I learned about the more passionate I become about the area. There's a lot of untapped experiences in the Wimmer.
Michael: What are some of those Chan? Just to shout them out because...
Chan: So for example these quirky historical elements that people don't know about. So for example, there's a church at Pella church (https://pellaviarainbow.lutheran.org.au/) just north of Rainbow. You're driving 15 minutes out. You're going through the woods, you're surrounded by nothing but just woods, and also you hit upon a Lutheran Church in the middle of the woods, which they would have had to use horse and carriage to get to. And when you get in there, you discover 19th century, pipe organ from Germany.
Michael: Wow.
Chan: You talk about a Pipe organ that you saw in a bigger church, but this is in a small Church in the woods. It's just the journey to get, there's quite a kind of amazing, and then when you get there, the tour guide starts playing Bach on the organ. It's like a bit of Phantom of the Opera in the middle of the bush. It's just amazing. I guess that juxtaposition between extremities of distance and in having a church in the middle of the woods with a 19th-century pipe organ. It's just fascinating.
It was just an example where, you know, you can have droopy experiences and also the architecture for the towns. You know the 19th-century architecture. And because I've always been drawn to architecture, I quite find them to be gems.
Michael: Yeah. And still affordable? is that...
Chan: Yes. Compared to other country areas of Victoria, it's probably the most affordable area. And look at the distance.
Michael: Yeah.
Chan: But the Renaissance I think that we're experiencing now is changing that. And I mean, people are coming to Dimboola and the Wimmera.
Michael: I think the whole, you know, there's there is a shift going on and what was too far away, people are reassessing that now because, you know, they want experiences and creating destinations. You've talked a lot about this new shop opening, but also, you know, the Wimmera River, the little desert. I mean, there's a lot that you can access from around the place where we found that glorious.
So, I know you've also, you know, in moving to a from Melbourne to a small town with a population of I think it's a thousand or maybe...
Chan: It's floating between fourteen hundred and seventeen hundred.
Michael: Okay.
Chan: depending on what part of the internet you come across.
Michael: So that's a big move. How else have you got involved? I know there's a, I think there's a festival that you're behind. Do you want to talk about it? Just the effort you made to get involved with locals.
Chan: Yeah.
Michael: So to kind of broaden out what Dimboola had to offer through, I mean it's lots to offer already but you know you're kind of adding to the mix with this Festival.
Chan: So it was a bit of a shock coming here to a small town on one level because it's a smaller community where everyone knows each other. So in Melbourne, you can be Incognito and Anonymous and you can float through society with no one knowing you or knowing your neighbors, but here, everyone knows your business. So because, you know, we bought a significant building in town. Everyone's going to know people. The building of course, so they're already watching us, you know what I'm saying? So what they do is... So I guess for Melbournians, just be mindful that you will be noticed. You do have to make a, I guess, your behavior needs to be changed as well. It's such a small knitted Community. Everyone knows each other and most likely are related to each other. So be careful what you say as well because it travels small things, you know, spread very quickly.
So having said that, we broke the ice with the town, by having a special event, by having it photo re-creation of the bank opening in 1909. So, in the year that we moved, we were a hundred and ten years later that we took residents of the building. So, there's a photograph that we discovered of all the men, male customers were invited to the opening of the bank. So we felt like we really want to create this shot because it hasn't been done before. Or after a hundred ten years. So we broke the ice by inviting the locals to come to participate in that photo Recreation. Two hundred and fifty turned up. Mostly older people which was really great because I appreciate history and heritage. They had such a good time. They gave us the best event of the Year 2019. From the town community and also a letter from the CEO of the council.
So, so that was really good. So we broke the ice and from there. We open the shop and we're also been active in the community, you know, and also, what people said is that they really like the fact that we're really down to earth in genuine. So that's really important to I think we've been moved to a country town. So, you know, defeating, just be down to earth and that's what we are. And that's how we managed to do.
So, because of that, over the years, which is only two and a half years. I dunno, I think people like what we're doing. And so whatever we do seems to awaken people's awareness of certain elements. So I guess the steampunk event is one we're pushing the envelope. Because not many people around here know what steampunk is. So and I know that steampunk festivals around the world in other country towns have been extremely successful. So it clearly works in the United States, New Zealand, the UK, and also different parts of Australia.
Steampunk really lends itself to country towns and farming communities, because they can upcycle and make wonderful contraptions through the materials. So, after this first event, I think all the farmers will learn what steampunk is. And I think they will embrace it because it's aesthetically quite beautiful. It won't date, and it's quite quirky. And I think the Herald Sun described Dimboola as a town that has got an eccentric flavor. So let's embrace that and I think steampunk lends itself to that.
Michael: Yeah, so so we are coming up to the end. But can you just quickly describe what steampunk is and when this Festival, all things going well with Covid, etc., when it will be?
Chan: Okay. September the 4th the day before Father's Day. Yeah, and steampunk is really Victoriana, combining Victoriana and your imagination. So another way of saying is 19th-century aesthetics lending with science fiction. So it's a literary genre that stems from science fiction. So you imagine Jules Verne, the time machine, that sort of period that romanticized version of the 19th-Century imagination with science fiction is steampunk. So you're imagining the past having the technology that we have now, but still with the materials of the 19th century.
Michael: Yeah okay. And there's lots of raw material to work within some of these older towns, so...
Chan: That's right.
Michael: That's great. Hey Chan, thank you so much for your time today. It was really a very personal insight and I thank you for that because one of the things that we want to encourage is people into small business and you've done that. And also this program goes out through Regional Australia through the Community Radio Network and a lot of people have now considering moving and you've done that and I really admire what you've done. And I hope people listening in will also take some inspiration from it. It's a great story.
So we wish you well at the Dimboola Imaginarium and I can speak from firsthand experience it so it's a hell of a great place to visit and worth lots to do around the area. So well worth the time and effort. Thanks again, Chan.
Chan: Thanks, Michael. Thanks for the chat.
Michael: So that is all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired bringing you small business experts, and other small business owners and hearing their stories. Do you want to listen to any past episode? Jump onto your podcast platform of choice and search Small Business Banter. There you will find a diverse and fascinating collection of small business owners and experts openly discussing and sharing their experiences.
For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today, or to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com or you can find us on Facebook and Instagram. And it would be great to have you tune in the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.
[END]
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Phil left @kpmg in 2010 to join Bintani which had been started by his father in 1995. Since then he's become immersed in the #craftbrewing industry in Australia, and more recently, via @bay13brewery the #USA
Hi there, it's @MichaelKerr and I'm presenting @smallbusinessbanter.
A healthy #micro and #smallbusiness sector means a successful economy and a way more vibrant society. @smallbusinessbanter is about helping #regionalbusinessowners to better prepare for the current challenges, but also for the next stage of business success. I'm @MichaelKerr. The founder of @KerrCapital and we advise business owners.
Each week, I interview a fellow #smallbusinessowner or an #expert and they share their stories, their lived experiences, including the wins, and the losses and overall their best advice to help you, the listener, get the most you can from your own #small business. @smallbusinessbanter is brought to you from the Studio's of 104.7 @GippslandFM and is heard right across Australia on the #communityradionetwork. Thanks also to @KerrCapital supporters of the show.
Kerr: Good morning and welcome to another edition of @smallbusinessbanter. I'm @MichaelKerr, the host of @smallbusinessbanter. In the house with me today is @PhilMeddings, the Joint #ChiefExecutive of @BintaniAustralia. He's going to explain what Bintani does, but it's in and around the craft of the brewing industry. He's also co-owner of @BentSpokeBrewingCompany in #Canberra. He's a #nonexecutivedirector of another couple of entities and he's also a #cofounder of @Bay13Brewery in #Miami #Florida. So it's fantastic to have you in Phil. Firstly, welcome.
Phil Meddings: Thanks for having us some. Yeah. I'm looking forward to this
Kerr: Same, yeah. Look, do you want to give us a couple of minutes? You've got a pretty extensive CV and but a heavy involvement in the #craftbrewingindustry, which has been going ballistic for the last five to 10 years. So, if you could just give us a couple of minutes on the portfolio.
Meddings: Yeah, no problem. Look, I started with the #familybusiness in 2010. But it's a business my dad started in '95 called Bintani. When he started it, even up until the point when I joined in 2010, it was a fairly small sort of business, supplying #ingredients into the #breweries, into #craft breweries, so that was in 2010. Since that time, quite a bit has happened including an explosion in #craftbeer. My dad's #retired and along the way in between we've sort of started a whole lot of other, and become involved in a lot of other, a lot of other businesses, most have sort of got a relationship with craft brewing and #beverage and #alcohol, I guess. But they're not all, they're not all ingredients or they're not all production. So, it's been an interesting few years.
Kerr: Yes. Oh, that you’ve gone up and down the #supplychain, I guess, because you're in retail with BentSpoke as an example and maybe right back to supplying and #servicingkegs as another.
Meddings: Yeah, I can give you a bit of a timeline on it. If you like it,
Kerr: Yeah, please do.
Meddings: We started with the ingredients and they really weren't many breweries. But as the breweries increased, we supplied more and more and my dad really put together a fantastic business built around #simplicity and I guess #transparency and #honesty with the #customers. So-
Kerr: And off the back of a pretty strong #passion for #homebrewing.
Meddings: Exactly. He was passionate about brewing, which meant that he explored different ingredients. He had his eyes open for different products to sell. Then he'd looked after the customers and it was kind of a simple as that. As the industry grew the business grew and then other suppliers started coming to us to say, "Can you sell our ingredients?" But, probably in around 2011-2012, we come into the business from 10 or 11 years in #charteredaccounting at @KPMG. And I came into the business and the accounting side of work. It didn't really take up very much time because it was so small. I think we only had obviously six employees, I'd be six.
So, we're just left a little bit of free time to kind of consider other opportunities and we always get excited about these opportunities. And one day, we were talking with a really good brewer up in Canberra called @RichWatkins, and he was working as an #employee brewer. The conversation just started about setting up our own thing and that took a bit of time to get going. But the #BrewPub @BentSpoke opened in 2014 and has just grown enormously since that time in that partnership. We were still running our ingredients business, but we were heavily involved in the sort of the back office in the strategy side of growing Bentspoke with Rich and his partner Tracy.
Kerr: And Rich was a really highly regarded brewer in his own right?
Meddings: He was. He'd been brewing for a long time and he'd been a longtime customer of ours. We had a great relationship and a lot of #sharedvalues and knowledge. It was a kind of an easy decision to start this thing together. We didn't really know where it would go. It wasn't about a vision of a company of a certain size. It was really just about the excitement of #startingsomethingnew. And there's a few other businesses that we started around the same time.
We started a company, #leasingequipment, #leasingbeerkegs, stainless steel beer kegs. So, we started that one in 2012. that business had a requirement to actually repair kegs as well because a brewery would lease kegs for a while. They would send them back and we would need to do a bit of refurbishment, changing some of the seals and cleaning it up. It kind of led to starting another company in servicing the kegs. So I guess if that's-
Kerr: You're seeing opportunities and you really, rather than letting them go, you're capturing them and going after them.
Meddings: Yeah, we did. I mean, @BentSpoke made sense, it was in #Canberra and it was always going to be a separate entity with another partner. But the keg businesses, was sort of different from the ingredients business. So we always treated those separately and they grew life on their own as well. We #sold both of those keg businesses now but that has lead to an involvement with the @Konvoykegs business, which you mentioned in the introduction.
Kerr: I think the newest venture is @Bay13 in which is an #AustralianBrewpub in #Florida.
Meddings: Yeah. So, Bay 13 is pretty awesome.
Kerr: Iconic name.
Meddings: Yeah, you know, it's the #Larrikin element isn't it? It kind of goes well with the concept, the idea of drinking beer, and summer I guess, warm weather. I worked with a guy called @NickSharp at @KPMG and he ended up in Miami through another job and we just stayed mates from 2005 onwards. And at one point, it just came up about a #Brewpub. So, we firstly taking a step back, we travel to #America all the time with work and we obviously spent a lot of time in the brewpubs over there.
I just sort of felt that there was a bit of a gap for an #Australianstyle #BrewPub. I've had this question asked a few times, like what is an Australian-style Brewpub and what ways an Australian-style Brew Pub and why it's different to an American, it's because we feel we're offering customers a better food experience, high-quality beer, and #Americanbrewpubs have very high-quality be generally as well, so that's not a differentiator, but we want to do beers showcasing #Australianingredients. We want to have a better food offering, so less burgers and more Australian sort of café, a little bit healthier, bit less cheese, maybe.
Kerr: That's it. Australia's highly regarded for isn't food?
Meddings: Yeah. It is more into café and coffee. I think if you look around #Melbournecafes and you look at sort of the quality of the #fitouts, the quality of the #menudesign, and the experience for someone going out for breakfast is a mix of really informal but high-quality experience. That's kind of what we wanted to do at Bay 13 in America, it is to bring the Australian fun informality but at a high-quality level. And see whether it resonated, and actually does provide something different-
Kerr: Yeah. So it's a little combination of offerings, not just beers pretty competitive and pretty personal, I guess. And so the food offering is something that you say is a differentiator. It looks like it's also that in partnering again with someone on the ground, as you did with Rich in Canberra, that seems to be a part of your model.
Meddings: It's ended up that way. I guess it's kind of how you can, I mean we're all the same in that, we literally can't do everything ourselves. So, partnering with somebody is the way we've been able to #expand and #grow. It's not about growing, it's about pursuing interests really. We've been able to pursue things that we think a fun and good opportunities by #partnering with people. It wasn't always that way but that's how we've ended up.
Kerr: Yeah. So in between @Bay13 what was the last “great” #aussiebeer? Was it all the way back to #Fosters?
Meddings: In the U.S.?
Kerr: Yeah. Like there's been some really high in #coffeepioneers from Australia going to America and paved the way. But are you out there on your own in terms of an Australian led owned business in the U.S.
Meddings: I would say we are, definitely. I'm not aware of anyone doing what we're doing. The only sort of person or whatever that comes close is #LittleCreatures. Little Creatures opened a Brewpub in #SanFrancisco in around 2019. But, I think Little Creatures is owned by @Lion, obviously. @Lion purchased a really big craft brewery in U.S. called @New Belgium. They've rebranded their # littlecreatures Brewpub.
Kerr: Let's say Bay 13 remains the carrying the flag. Because we're pretty, we're pretty pro Aussie aren't we?. I just want to go back on a couple of things Phil. I could say it's an amazing mix of businesses. And you know, up and down the supply chain, craft brewing has been going ballistic for the last five or ten years. But for you personally, I think you left @KPMG, you know, a successful career in chartered accounting with one of the #bigfour firms KPMG. For you personally, what was the motivation in going into the #familybusiness? And what did you bring from that professional experience to a small business that was maybe good and maybe not so good?
Meddings: Yeah. In hindsight, when I look back on it, being at KPMG was probably the mismatch for me. I ended up being chartered accounting by following. I did #commerce at University because I like business. From then on, it was really about kind of taking the steps that are put in front of you. So, not really thinking it through too much. So I ended up, commerce, kept things general, and did accounting. And then went into a big four.
I was lucky enough to sort of getting taken on into a Big Four firm with pretty average Uni results. Then I kind of got into this vortex of doing chartered accounting and it wasn't really was my passion or what drove, what I got excited about. What I was excited about always was being in business, and just the kind of enjoyment that comes out of #plantingtheseed and watching something #grow. I know it's a bad cliché but that's exactly how I feel about businesses. So-
Kerr: It's a lesson there for a lot of younger professionals or younger people, generally, that it's pretty hard to say whether that experience is invaluable, but, you know, maybe earlier might have been better for you, just to get out of there.
Meddings: I mean, I had business ideas. I was messing around with a couple of people doing. The funny one is when I was probably 18, there used to be a #Gilbeysgindistillery in #Moorabbin and they close this big beautiful sight, and we saw an opportunity to do a #ClimbingGym. So, these 18-year-old guys ringing up landlords and trying to sort of get their climbing gym together and I wasn't really built for rock climbing, but I could see it as a growing sport, a good opportunity and we never got it off the ground. But I mean that was pretty-
Kerr: That's an indicator of your real inner passion for business and opportunities to see that. Just by the way, on today's edition of @smallbusinessbanter we're talking with @PhilMeddings, who amongst other things is the joint Chief Executive of Bintani Australia.
Sorry, Phil. I cut you off there about that potential business opportunity around climbing.
Meddings: Yeah. Well, you talked about KPMG and what I got out of it, there's no doubt that working in an environment like KPMG or a chartered firm kind of #changesyourhorizons. It shows you what's possible, and in those firms work with so many interesting businesses that all have a different story. They have a different starting point and different endpoint. Some go well, some go poorly. You meet different people. But sort of, when I came to Bintani, the thing that was very helpful was two things.
Probably the horizon, like seeing what you can do and what can be done and not having a low approach, not having a low ambition, but having quite big ambition where you can take something. Secondly, it's sort of dealing with #banks. You've got that degree of familiarity, with #banks, #lawyers, #financiers, those sorts of things, that just make it a lot easier. You've read #leaseagreements, you've read #bankingdocuments. Some of those things can be quite a barrier. Once their second nature, once some of the fear factors taken away, that, you don't even think about it again. I have seen people that are quite intimidating and quite a barrier to get through some of those structural things.
Kerr: Yeah, and you become familiar. The big difference, of course, is that you're putting your or your family's money into a venture. And so, maybe you read those documents with a little bit more intensity when you're personally on the line.
Meddings: Yeah, I think you do. I think you definitely do. I think you do everything. We certainly didn't start with any money at all and just cautiously and carefully went from one thing to another. We've never taken, I mean that's probably another part of now. Now, I see I look at how other people #startbusinesses and how they go from step one to step three, to step five. I feel as though in my pathways have been a lot more incremental. It's been step one step, step 1.5, step 2.
It's been a little bit of a slower build. It's one of the things I think about now, quite a bit, is that the different approaches to business. Some people are very bold and I think what I'm talking about really is being prepared to incur operating losses and to fund the losses for a period of time to grow scale and to get their business going. My experience wasn't, and my kind of natural inclination, was a lot more "Start smaller, prove the growth, see revenue growth, see profitability and grow more slowly and more cautiously." I don't think either approach is wrong. I think there is pitfalls and strengths to both. So now, I try to learn a bit from taking a few more #calculatedrisks, I guess.
Kerr: Yeah, and you're still operating as a family. Your work, you said your dad's retired from the business only quite recently. Your brother works operate in the business to some degree in these ventures as a family unit who runs a couple of businesses. Does that-
Meddings: Yeah. I don't know whether, probably every family business is unique in the way they run. I certainly think and feel that the way we run is unique. From daydot I was talking to my dad about business, I don’t know how far to go back but even before any of the ingredients business even started, there was a business opportunity in China that never came up. That was when I was midway through high school. It's always been about that. But, joining the family business in 2010 really kind of put us all together, and the three of us, my dad, my brother, and myself.
My brother's very close in age to me. We all had complementary but different skills. Importantly, all sort of shared a very common set of values and understanding. We've got very different approaches to things. And as I said, different skill sets. But that shared understanding and value set meant that we were like some sort of Three-Headed Beast. We could handle a lot more breadth of undertakings because there were the three of us working together.
Kerr: It is, as you said, family businesses or small businesses, generally all, can have different ways of operating. You talk about values and I think that's so critically important that you have a shared set of values to guide you with the decisions you make. But to operate now for that length of period and go through the ups and downs, no doubt of building out those businesses kind of means that you've got a formula that works pretty well for yourselves.
Meddings: Well, just interestingly on that. My dad retired probably a year ago. But with #COVID, he wasn't in the office really at all from early last year. So, it's getting on more towards 18 months. With his retirement and not having a contact with the business it's kind of shown a need for my brother and I to reinforce the values and keep them, because we do have different approaches and my old man he's older than me, obviously. So, he's got a different presence in the office from what my brother and I do.
So, I think some of those sorts of changes mean that you might have shared values, but you actually have to be conscious of the need to have them flowing through your business at different times and push them through at different times. Sometimes they're very obvious and everybody's on board. But other times you can either hire a couple of people that don't quite get it or you can take your foot, sort of losing focus on making sure people are living the values that have got the business to where it is. So, yeah, so we kind of had a bit of that lately.
Kerr: Yeah. It's never set, right? You've got to constantly evolve and pushing it into America's is an incredibly fascinating step for you. I just wanted to cover off a couple of things where we could definitely continue to chat for many more minutes, but I just personally, you take on a lot as co-chief executive. How do you look at the outside of the business? Who do you admire as Business Leaders? And why? To guide you through a fast-growing group of businesses and in a fast-paced industry.
Meddings: It was very #strongleaders at KPMG, both probably more external to the business than at KPMG, since I started in the craft and small business and family business area in 2010 there's been less of that type of mentor leader that I really learn or consciously listen to and learn from.
But probably, recently, I've been on a very interesting board. I think the #board that I'm on is teaching me a lot because there's different personalities on there, and there's different ways of the board's themselves work. One of the guys who runs a company runs his keg business, and he's probably got that different approach that I was talking about with a bit more risk-taking. Amongst other things, I think I do admire the way his grown businesses and learn a bit from him.
Kerr: We recently interviewed @LouiseBroekman from @TheAdvisoryBoardCenter and we're just talking about the critical importance, particularly at the smaller end of small business to engage with people outside of the family, or outside of the day-to-day business management team. To bring in some #externaladvice or #counsel or #perspective. I think the growth and use of #advisoryboards for small businesses is a real area that I'd encourage if you've got an eye to grow your business.
Some businesses are happy just being where they are and that's wonderful. But the use of boards, and for you personally, it really does give you a range of new experiences in meeting new people. I guess, I'm also was keen to just close out with a little bit of a commentary from you on where to, for the craft brewing industry in Australia and maybe America because it's been explosive. Where to Phil? Is it gangbusters or is it may be starting to top out?
Meddings: It's an irreversible trend. It'll keep growing for some time. I think people want to know where their products coming from. I think the taste is something that you generally don't wind back, once you've explored broader flavors and work them into your lifestyle. It doesn't mean that a basic lager is going to go out of fashion or not exist but it does mean that with the breadth of beers that the craft industry is producing, there's more and more beers that fit moments in your life, #winterstouts, and #porters, and #sourbeers for refreshment. And I think that doesn't go backwards.
Kerr: Right? Just to start to parallel wine and #foodmatching. You talked about that in Bay 13. It is going to be the next evolution if you like because there's so many. If you walk into a brewpub or a bottle shop that it is an extraordinary range of beer. All growth, the head for craft beer. Hey Phil, we have unfortunately run out of time. I really appreciate you, the very busy business life that you have, experienced some time for us. It was a great chat. Thank you very much. Phil Meddings from Bintani Australia, amongst other things.
Meddings: No problem at all Mike, really enjoyed the chat.
Kerr: All right, Phil. You take care. Thank you.
Meddings: All right. Thanks.
Kerr: So, that's all for today's episode of small business banter. I continue to be inspired by bringing you small business experts and other small business owners and hearing their stories and their experiences.
For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today or just to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com or find small business banter on Facebook or Instagram. It'd be really great to have you tuned in at the same time next week for another episode of small business banter.
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Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
The workbook outlines a 7-step process to help when things don't go as expected - when #cashflows dry up or when you're aksing yourself "What do I do?".
It's especially relevant now following the covid-19 lockdowns and the likelihood that so many #SMEs have been hit hard.
How much do I increase the debt which I'm carrying?
How much do I pull out for my superannuation to try and keep the business alive?
How much do I allow the outstanding commercial rents to grow?
the natural tendency for small business people to lock themselves down and not share the difficulties with their family because they don't want to take the burdens of the business at home
Accept - it's not about saying it's okay, it's about accepting
Clarify - getting the facts on the table - so what are my losses? Where are my assets? Where are my liabilities? Whose name is on the line? Who were site guarantees? Whose assets are exposed? What are the opportunities?
Action - what are my options? What can I do? What is the exposure? How do I mitigate that exposure? What can I save?
Champions - the people going to have your back. They believe in you, they want you to succeed. They have some business sense. They're honest and they'll cord as they see it
Be Real - do not surrender your values. Just compare the actions and decisions you take against what is important to you
Care - maintain your emotional, mental, and physical fitness.
A Light - you need to look for that by creating something, that light at the end of that tunnel, which you can hang onto and pull yourself out
the tipping point and calling it quits - it's not a failure - it is a sensible commercial decision to release yourself in the business, make a sensible commercial decision, and then take with you what you need to restart
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
She helps people in business to understand what they care about and how to put it to work. So if you actually do things and make promises that don't align with those things, it's a risk to your business. And it's not just the promises that you make to #customers - it's the promises you make to each other within the business, to your #stakeholders, across the board, including vendors and partners and #investors and all people of all stripes.
There's no category of promises that don't matter!
In our discussion we cover;
how every organization, whether they are doing it deliberately or not, is achieving some form of brand
the fallacy of thinking about brand as this thing that you create, an entity of its own
how Michel instead sees brand as a container where everything that you do gets deposited - so it's literally all the actions and decisions of your organization
missed opportunities from seeing #marketing as almost a de-facto for brand
how you make a difference every day as you go about your work and engage with customers and employ staff
why nobody (customers that is) cares what your logo looks like and why most #smallbusinessowners waste of energy time and resources obsessing over your logo
the #mythofwow - being (wrongly) convinced that unless we're absolutely wowing our customers all the time, then we're going to lose them
why 150% is over-rated and 100% promised and delivered is just fine
#customerzillas - the godzillas of customers - every small business has a few and the sad truth is that about 40% of your time will get taken up by about 2% of your customers. So why keep them?
a survey from @auspost saying, how did we do? And my question to them is, did I get my parcel? Then, I'm good. You know if I got my parcel or not because you know. And so you're asking me something you know. It's not the right question
information you should already know
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Rob Pierce, CEO Wrays, on how Intellectual Property (IP) underpins business success.
00:27:52
Intellectual Property isn't just for big companies. IP can make your small business more successful and more valuable.
IP can be as simple as a logo, and as complex as a radical new manufacturing process.
Rob PIerce is the CEO of Wrays International and an Intellectual Property (IP) expert. He breaks down IP into it's simplest form.
He defines what IP is and explains why you need an IP strategy, just like you need one for marketing.
A well-executed IP strategy can make a small business more profitable, more valuable and easier to sell, when the time comes.
If you think you or your business has something special or unique, or you're considering starting a new business based on a unique idea or process or business model then it's worth creating an IP strategy. And the key steps to get started on your IP strategy are;
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Natasha Hawker from Employee Matters on how owners can better manage employees for greater small business success.
01:00:03
@Natasha Hawker founder of @Employee Matters discusses the importance of employees in small businesses, and the impact they have on business performance. Natasha emphasizes the need for exceptional HR practices and the role they play in driving business growth and sustainability.
She also discusses the current employment relations landscape and the importance of compliance. Natasha provides insights into the red flags that small business owners should be aware of and the benefits of outsourcing HR services.
She concludes by discussing the significance of employee ownership and the role it plays in business success and potential sale. The conversation explores;
the importance of investing in personal and professional development for both business owners and employees
the need for business owners to have a growth mindset and actively seek opportunities to learn and improve
the benefits of employee ownership and how it can increase engagement and motivation
the significance of creating a compelling employee value proposition and fostering a transparent and inclusive work environment
the use of advisory boards and networking with other business owners is also recommended as a way to gain valuable insights and support.
Natasha made it very clear how your employees have such a significant impact on the performance and success of small businesses. This short video beautifully categorises the 4 types of employees and provides a framework for business owners to better manage their #employeeassets.
Exceptional HR practices are crucial for business growth and sustainability. For more information on better managing the 7 main HR risks you should read this ebook from Employee Matters (https://app.hubspot.com/documents/20625731/view/791072601?accessId=a9b9bb)
Small business owners should be aware of red flags such as pay secrecy and compliance with employment relations legislation.
Outsourcing HR services can provide expertise and support for small businesses without a full-time HR resource.
Employee ownership can contribute to business success and potential sale. Investing in personal and professional development is crucial for business owners to improve their skills and knowledge.
Employee ownership can increase engagement and motivation among employees.
Creating a compelling employee value proposition and fostering transparency and inclusivity are important for attracting and retaining high-quality employees.
Advisory boards and networking with other business owners can provide valuable insights and support.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
This campaign supports the local independent craft industry by gifting a case of 16 independent beers to essential workers including nurses, police, aged care workers and many others who have been dealing directly with the spread and impacts of Covid-19
The struggle of bootstrapping a small business
Social Entrepreneurship
Collaborations
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Mike Finger from Exit Oasis, 4 time business seller, on how to get a better exit
00:27:51
@MikeFinger from @exitoasis has been a #businessowner and #businessbroker. He's had 4 successful business sales of his own and now coaches owners to help them build more sellable businesses. Mike is based in the US and in the discussion we cover;
why owners need to 'learn to leave' their business more successfully.
the different perspective Mike can bring from being able to sit on all sides of the table i.e he's, sold, and brokered small business sales, and seen the pluses and minuses in each of those chairs
creating the freedom for the business owner to make the choice when they're ready
the downside for owners in the existing #businessbroking model for selling businesses
how the #businessbroking industry is compensated based on complexity;
The reason most small business owners fail to sell is because of something simple
Why owners really want to sell – because "I've got these 3 problems in the business and I'm just tired of dealing with them."
Why you can’t sell unless we solve that problem
The irony that comes when that problem starts to get solved - the owner starts to fall back in love with their business.“Hey, this isn't so bad. I'm actually making some money. Hey, this isn't so bad. I don't have to be there every day.”
The key to all = Ownable is Sellable. Create a business that gives the owner of the flexibility to make either choice.
How too many owners think that selling their business is their worst-case scenario.
They think that's their my fallback, that's my safety net when they're not aware that best stats available show that 80 percent of small businesses will never sell.
3 key questions Mike ask’s owners to work out how well progressed they are to selling;
Are your results desirable?
Can I buy or duplicate your results?
And can you document your results?
When your retirement plan is based on the sale of your business
His preference for small business owners giving themselves choices
Being into a business for years and years and then woking up one morning, and I just I don't want to do this anymore
Feeling toasted - looking in the mirror and seeing a piece of toast looking back
Mike’s most important pieces of advice;
Not leaving things too late to get started on getting prepared to sell
Set a half an hour a month, make a lunch date with your future self every month, and spend that half an hour learning about selling a business. Learning about what this topic means. If you're lucky enough to do it, it's the single biggest financial transaction you're ever going to have, how about spending half an hour month learning about it?
The magic of the space that occurs right after you sell a business. It is magical, what happens there. You've got this massive thing that consumed your life for so long. You get a successful completion of that effort. You get rewarded for that effort and you get this open landscape in front of you of opportunity. I love that space. I'm talking a little bit about the money, but I'm mostly talking about that freedom to clear your brain. I carry ownership pretty heavily, right? It was always on my mind. It was always in my head. So to be set free from that, that's a fabulous thing.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Zhanna Gee founder of Slim By Nature and Delicious Dreams on what it takes to start and then sustain successful businesses.
00:27:52
@ZhannaGee is a multi-award winning entrepreneur, business advisor and #founder of one of Australia’s leading health and well-being companies @slimbynature.
Zhanna was born in Latvia and pretty much had her future mapped out by the family. Things changed and she and family came to Australia back in 1996. At that time she didn't speak a word of English.
In this episode we dig deep into her pathway to successful business owner, calling Australia home and starting a family. We talk about;
her deeply personal reason for starting @slimbynature
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
how we are reimagining the old idea of making a product in the hope that it will sell on the market (way too risky now) and are instead pre-selling or setting up strong relationships with export markets where they've got more security in what they're selling
why the days of just crushing a few 1000 tonnes to make wine in the hopes that it'll sell in #China and just going to trade shows, is over
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
how #sayingyes to the things that don't truly align with gives away our precious time, energy, and ultimately our sanity
growing up as an only child in a family of Asians where for girls its like, oh you know you're smart, but get a job, don't rock the boat, you'll be fine.
why she ended up the rebellious one because she thought "why should the boys carry out the family name and doing XYZ"
getting two bachelor degrees, a masters degree finally got into medicine, and one of the best heart and lung surgery centers in the USA
feeing like I made it and then I started working 80 plus hours a week, constantly adding more cases or seeing a new consultation just keep going
her 'aha' moment - waking at 8 o'clock in the am and already feeling exhausted but just pushing through it like a little thing, no big deal. If you don't do it, who's gonna do it, that type of mentality, so I had to convince myself
how to actually #prioritize - no longer 10 things as a priority, there should just be one, very focused and knowing when you pick that one you have no regret, you're very present, and then you're not putting yourself into the #distractionzone, this #deadzone
key signs that someone should be looking out for in themselves or another's they care about, as, as an indicator that things aren't right.
why we should be living more than 80% of the time in our desire zone to keep our momentum going, keep our joy, keep ourself light
definition of a #desirezone - it's something that you love to do and you're really good at it come natural to you.
doing things that you love to do, and #movingtheneedle in your life or business
knowing that when we start to #procrastinate, we start to slow down our momentum, so that the disinterest zone which is also very dangerous
a simple exercise to help you figure out 'your zone' and how can you automate or delegate them
overcoming a #mindset barrier where people feel like I'm by myself. I don't have the time, I don't have the money. I don't have the resources.
pivoting into the empowerment side of us to be resourceful
how if you continue to do the tasks that are truly mundane then you diminish who you are, And not only your confidence and your time, but then really how you see yourself as an individual, as a business owner.
what to do if you're not moving the needle in your business
how to preemptively reset yourself, because it's easier to recharge when you're pretty full than bring yourself completely down - constantly just sipping on something, right that's analogy,
sanity - why most people are not realizing that a lot of things are just not enjoyable
how are you truly creating freedom for yourself, what does the freedom even look like for you, and is there future value. - it's not just the enjoyment of now, the instant gratification
#personalgrowth, because without that constant excitement that will build for us, then people eventually gonna get to a point of being stagnant
how you just don't know what you don't know, and for someone else look at it, this chaos can become something so simplified
wanting to serve and making sure everyone else is happy but forgetting yourself.
receiving empathy
having a #purposestatement for me and a little me time because y'all deserve it
a guide on when to say yes when to say no
saying heck yeah yes only to the things that truly light you up in life
why every no is a new opportunity toward things that you truly can feel powerfully about so when you say that yes you don't feel like you're regretting or you feel like you're missing out right, you're you're comfortable with every single decision
dealing with not making the right decision
building confidence in making decisions you may not have made before, that you may have put off because it was too hard ,or you didn't like saying no, so you're retraining yourself
how important employees are to the success of just about every business
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
We have an indepth discussion on how it all got started, her people orientated approach to business (this was formed from deep personal experience), where she wants to take the brand and her own next steps. Karen covers;
being driven to stay, Australian made / Australian owned despite ever present opportunities to go offshore and someone always saying there are better opportunities to save money
her desire to keep everything Australian, because of the flowon effect that it can have in rural communities
her desire to be more community focused, I think that's what COVID actually taught us.
why for her being in business isn’t entirely about saving or making money
being able to offer people, families, far more extension than just a wage
blending family and business and how many businesses don't necessarily know how to blend those
her language in the business - we're not a team, where not staff or employees, we're a family
how that language leads onto "it's everybody's responsibility as a family to hold the space, to all play a role and responsibility authorities and accountabilities"
the #roi in her approach - intangibles that bring community building
why there's always challenges when people are involved but knowing that happens in real families as well
her greatest learnings over 28 years of making a lot of mistakes;
giving people a voice, and treating them like humans,
giving them a seat at the table
giving them a voice to have a say without objection.
using a different language at work to empower the person in the skill set that they're doing. And once we empower them, they will learn to own their role. And her first question is " how can I support you in your role?"
her most important role, even though she is the #CEO and #co-founder is just is to make them the hero
playing to the strengths of the team member (we all have strengths and weaknesses and we've all got learning opportunity) but if you play to people's strengths they’ll deliver back and they will shine
geting sick of running a business by fear
how to do the right thing so everybody will stay and do the right thing, and if not the team weeds those that aren’t doing the right thing
nearly losing the business in 2012 - due to external environmental factors that we hadn't accounted for, a little bit like COVID external environmental factors
accepting that we "don't know what we don't know" and chasing new knowledge
understanding that rather than saying I can’t afford the time, think about it as I can’t afford the risk of not knowing
why there is no such thing as a dumb question in business
and if you don’t understand the answer, ask them to go back to basics, and ask it again if you don't get it because it's your business it's your life it's your family that's going to be affected.
my vision is to empower leaders and leaders, connect communities and create life changing opportunities across remote regional cities across the nation
her emerging role as a mentor to business owners primarily when they get into this chaos stage - when they could be quite a big business and they just don't know they can't see the wood for the trees and they just need somebody to sit and talk to them, mentor, and have a sense of give them, accountability, and confidence in their decision making process to take those next steps.
the next stage for the brand of 28 years
making it into an Australian iconic brand - the vegemite of the biscuit isle
why culture eats strategy
and finally why small business is and was really important to her mother, her family and communities
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Legendary Blues Train Maestro Hugo T Armstrong unveils how he's crafting an epic farewell for this iconic business
01:00:18
The hum of a steam train, the rhythm of blues and roots music and the energy of a live audience. These are the ingredients @Hugo T Armstrong mixed over 30 years to create and grow the legendary @The Blues Train in Queenscliff, Victoria.
Now it's time for Hugo to move it on and he's currently in the market to find a new owner for this iconic business . We cover a lot of ground in this episode and Hugo talks about;
growing up in the music-soaked town of Queenscliffe
making mixtapes and DJing school socials
dreaming of a life centered around the magic of music
how he honed his skills in marketing and promotions
yearning for more and how that led to him kicking off The Blues Train
transforming an ad-hoc event a thriving business
the bumps (technical mishaps and operational challenges)
perseverance
preparing a business for sale and the importance of having;
an exit strategy (at least 5 years in advance)
an operations manuals and compliance to make a business more attractive to potential buyers
a team of professionals to assist in the selling process
a focus on maintaining the business's performance and value during the sale
Timestamped summary of this episode:
0:00:00 - Introduction, Michael introduces the podcast and welcomes Hugo T Armstrong, the owner of the legendary Blues Train in Queenscliffe, for a discussion on business sales and exit planning.
00:01:13 - Hugo's Background in the Music Industry, Hugo shares his extensive background in the music industry, including his early days at PBS FM and his passion for broadcasting and DJing. He also talks about his involvement in the St Kilda music scene and his role in saving the Queenscliffe Music Festival.
00:05:29 - Saving the Queenscliffe Music Festival, Hugo explains how he took on the challenge of saving the bankrupt Queenscliffe Music Festival in 1996. With the support of the local community, he successfully transformed the festival by adopting the PBS FM model and showcasing a diverse range of Australian music.
00:10:15 - Growth and Success of the Queenscliffe Music Festival, Hugo discusses the exponential growth of the Queenscliffe Music Festival under his leadership. He mentions his proudest moments, including the launch of the first digital radio platform in Australia and the festival's partnership with the ABC.
00:12:47 - The Blues Train and Other Ventures, Hugo briefly mentions the Blues Train, his other successful business venture that started in 1994. He also mentions his involvement in curating other festivals and his past roles in Ballerine Tourism and Queenscliff Council's financial advisory.
00:15:09 - The Beginnings of the Blues Train, The Blues Train started as a small winter concert series with a variety of musical performances. It was an organic and unplanned venture that gained popularity through word of mouth. The immersive nature of the show and its ability to provide a unique experience to repeat customers contributed to its success.
00:17:14 - The Evolution of the Blues Train, The Blues Train initially had no intention of becoming a business. It was a DIY project with limited resources and technical difficulties. However, over time, it grew into a successful venture, attracting investment and government support. The internet played a crucial role in expanding its reach.
00:18:52 - Ownership and Infrastructure, The Blues Train operates on railway tracks owned and managed by Victrac, a division of the Victorian government. The rolling stock is maintained by the Geelong Steam Preservation Society. The vintage trains, some of which are over 100 years old, add to the unique appeal of the experience.
00:22:56 - Saving the Blues Train, When COVID-19 hit, the Blues Train was the only business worth saving for Hugo Armstrong. Its positive impact on the local community, including economic benefits and music tourism, made it a priority. The investment in the railway infrastructure and government support helped ensure its survival.
00:27:45 - Music Tourism in Australia, Hugo highlights the lack of focus on music tourism in Australia's tourism industry. He believes that showcasing Australian music and leveraging its global success could
00:30:41 - The Local Economic Benefits of the Blues Train, The Blues Train has brought in $3.1 million of local economic benefits and has the potential to attract more tourism with its new track. The Byra Bay blues and roots festival is a prime example of the economic impact of the music scene, generating millions of dollars. The festival could be complemented by an annual music festival featuring larger bands of various genres.
00:31:37 - Framing the Business as a Saleable Asset, The Blues Train is positioning itself as a business that appeals to a range of potential buyers. While there is a limit to the number of people the train can accommodate, there is significant opportunity for growth. One suggestion is to introduce an annual music festival on the train, featuring different genres to attract a diverse audience.
00:32:31 - Planning Exit Strategies and Removing the Figurehead, To plan for the future sale of the business, it was necessary to address the perception that The Blues Train was dependent on one person, in this case, Hugo T. Armstrong. Steps were taken to remove Hugo T. Armstrong from marketing and on-site activities. However, during COVID, he had to be brought back to maintain government support. The business underwent a rebranding process to establish itself as a separate entity from the figurehead.
00:36:12 - Importance of Having an Exit Strategy, Many business owners do not have an exit plan in place, which can lead to difficulties when unexpected circumstances arise. It is essential to think about a future exit strategy when
00:45:24 - Importance of Operations Manuals, Hugo emphasizes the importance of having operations manuals to ensure that a business can run smoothly even if the owner is absent. He believes that a business should not rely solely on the owner's knowledge and that having documented procedures is crucial for compliance and risk management.
00:46:01 - Planning for Business Sale, Hugo advises small business owners to start planning for a potential sale at least five years in advance. He warns against relying on a miracle buyer and suggests removing the temptation of cash from the business, as cash is not a reliable indicator of the business's value.
00:47:45 - Tax Implications and Preparation, Hugo shares his experience of working with his accounting firm to understand the tax implications of selling his business. He highlights the importance of staying up to date with tax laws, capital gains exemptions, divisional loans, and other financial factors that can significantly impact the selling process.
00:51:50 - Compliance and Business Value, Hugo emphasizes the importance of compliance in making a business sellable. He compares a non-compliant business to an unroadworthy car, stating that compliance should be the core of every business. He also warns against letting the quality of the business decline once it's on the market, as it can negatively impact its value.
00:56:48 - Reconnaissance and Richard Branson's Advice, Hugo encourages business owners to do their homework and reconnaissance when planning for an exit strategy. He also shares Richard Branson's advice to always
00:58:57 - Working on Multiple Platforms, Hugo discusses their current focus on multiple platforms and digital marketing, highlighting the success of their content strategy.
00:59:09 - You Can't Sell a Secret, Hugo emphasizes the importance of having a visible online presence and mentions that if the Blues Train is not easily found on Google, it would be a significant setback for their business.
00:59:37 - Casting a Wide Net, Hugo advises that when looking for buyers or clients, it is necessary to reach out widely and not limit oneself to a small pool of potential opportunities.
01:00:02 - Learning from Resources, Michael expresses gratitude towards Hugo for sharing his insights, acknowledging that resources like this podcast can provide valuable knowledge that helps small business owners avoid learning things the hard way.
01:00:10 - Time in Reconnaissance, The conversation ends with a quote about the importance of research and preparation, highlighting that time spent gathering information is never wasted.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
It's a very topical discussion. If you've ever thought about becoming a business owner you have two main alternatives.
Start your own or buy an existing #smallbusiness. Saeed has now done both and can talk about the pro's and con's of both.
He grew up in a little town in North of #Iran above his dad's little grocery shop and was a very young employee! After finishing an electrical engineering degree he co-founded his first business which for the first time brought the internet to his small hometown. As a #startup he did a lot of all-nighters to get things moving. He still draws on those experiences today. An opportunity came up to move to Australia in 2008. He gave himself time to get to know the culture and the environment. He worked as an employee before buying @CentrelineEngineering in 2019.
In our discussion Saeed shares his personal experiences and tips on buying a business - we cover;
the online search process he used to find businesses for sale
the filters e.g. industry, geography he used to help sort through the thousands for sale
how the maths he did on starting his own business (i.e. how long it would take to be viable, the risks etc) led him to buying an established business
remembering the feeling the moment he came to realise "you don't have to build it from scratch" - and the relief that he felt with that
the different risks you can or can't take at different ages
feeling unprepared for the buying process, stopping for a while to educate himself with any book or other material he could find to just filter through all the jargon, what the numbers mean, and how they've come up with the number they've come up.
how long the process took
treating the search as a hobby while working as an employee
the ideal time to get professionals involved
the importance of understanding the reason why an owner is selling
why it's not always about the dollar - the business has often been someone's baby and you need to factor that in
multiples and well-understood approaches for valuing businesses
the need to do a lot of work on yourself if you're moving from being an employee to owning a business
the upside of tapping into your community
having your stakeholders 'in the loop' - communicating with your partner, your family and making sure they understand the implications - that's very important to help get through the hard times later down the track
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Ken Matthews from Matthews Steer, leading adviser to family businesses, on his own exit after successfully growing a highly regarded financial services business.
01:00:51
@Ken Matthews, founder of @Matthew Steer, shares the long but successful journey from growing to selling a mid-tier financial services firm. He talks about the importance of scaling, the three stages of growth and the challenges of transitioning from a sales-driven mode to an operational mode.
"Stepping back and becoming a CEO is a significant step and not an easy one for any entrepreneur."
Ken and I talk a lot about the process of selling, and what he sees as the most critical for getting a successful result;
the value of finding the right buyer.
the need for consistency and a shared vision when entering into joint ownership model
the importance of strategic planning and financial analysis
constantly work on improving the value of their business, and
the importance of having a strong support network, including mentors and advisory boards.
Ken has dealt with many business owners over many years. The triggers for them seeking his services can range from;
recognising that their current strategies are no longer working and realising they need to become more sophisticated in their operations
concerns about succession planning, to
unexpected approaches from potential buyers.
Key Takeaways;
Scaling is crucial in the financial services sector to attract and retain talent and provide a broader range of services to clients.
Transitioning from a sales-driven mode to an operational mode requires letting go and delegating responsibilities to focus on running the business.
When selling a business, it is important to find a buyer who aligns with the company's culture and vision.
Joint ownership models can provide opportunities for growth and innovation, but it requires compatibility and consistency between partners.
Advising small business owners involves conducting a deep dive into their financials, creating a strategic plan, and implementing corporate governance to drive growth. Business owners often seek help when their current strategies are no longer effective and they need to become more sophisticated in their operations.
Triggers for seeking advisory services can include concerns about succession planning and unexpected approaches from potential buyers.
It is important for business owners to know their retirement number and constantly work on improving the value of their business.
Having a strong support network, including mentors and advisory boards, can provide valuable guidance and help navigate the emotional roller coaster of selling a business.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
the need for business owners to take responsibility and say;
I want to learn this stuff
I want to know how it works, and
What I can do better
when the best accountancy practitioners in the world can't help you
@Jack Stack and the Great Game of Business, which effectively teaches the importance of finance and sharing financial information with the entire company. in order to get everybody on board and understand how to play the game
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Theo Williams from localised.com on keeping more business in the local community.
00:27:51
Theo Williams is a Director and CEO of www.localised.com which is a local business discovery tool and helps owners to buy from sell to, and partner with other owners.
He works with government and locally focused corporates. to build and activate business owner communities and to build resilience and grow micro-economies.
Localised was his first business. Six years on Theo talks to us about the ride and shares with us;
How a move to the regions prompted the original idea for Localised
The stuff up's, the learnings, the successes
The pathway that led to finding the right product-market fit for the business
The massive opportunity for local businesses to do more business locally
The benefits to local communities from connecting local buyers and sellers
The evolution of the Localised platform
How connection and networking are still so critical for small business owners
How he is encouraging the takeup of digital technologies and services to build resilience in small businesses
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Dalton Garland Blanchard a boutique agency that works strictly with #forpurpose organizations and groups, large and small, including #startups that have plans to really transform themselves in the communities that they serve.
Iiving in #london and having a #careerdefining moment from working with a charity involved #childsafety, part of a #UKgovernment program called "Personal, Social, Health Education"
#mum asking "What are you doing? It sounds really interesting. It's very different. It's not what I thought you would do. Is it what you really want to do?"
his sense that everyone is starting to realize that our #socialfabric and the #health of other people who are less fortunate actually impacts everybody, that we are in #onebigworld
the estimated (@deloitte) $100B size of the "third sector"
the need for #socialenterprises to make a profit so it can support either its supply chain, or employees
the importance of #valuesalignment in #socialenterprise and who starts it, who runs it, who works in it, and who carries it forward #succession
what happens when social enterprises become so successful - they become brands in their own right, they become really well-known, they become sought-after entities or businesses. The conundrum for #founders when this occurs
the key day to day challenges in the #thirddsector;
finding employees - really good, highly skilled people who can build relationships
matching the private sector
funding
the pivotal role of the #thirdsector - doing what #government can't - taking risks that government and #privatesector can't
why sometimes #failing as a natural outcome of trying to alleviate social issues because you can't roll out a #lowrisk private-style business plan to deal with major societal issues
#goodcorporates quietly funding #multimilliondollar transformational projects, some not heavily publicised at all and done because that organisation believes in something that it's a line with their #mission
#worldchange and a #fairersociety is going to have to come at the cost of hard profits at some point - and the #hope that because people that have had success or intergenerational wealth are more attuned to social need than ever before these #sophisticatedphilanthropists will make the difference
Michael Kerr: Hi. It's Michael Kerr here, presenting Small Business Banter.
A healthy micro and small business sector means a successful economy and a more vibrant society. Small Business Banter is about helping regional business owners better prepare for current challenges, but also for the next stage of business success.
I'm Michael Kerr, founder of Kerr Capital, advisors to business owners.
Each week, I interview a fellow small business owner or an expert, and they share their stories, their lived experiences, the wins and the losses, and their best advice to help you, the listener, get the most you can from your own business.
Small Business Banter is brought to you from the studios of 104.7 Gippsland FM and is heard across Australia on the Community Radio Network. Thanks also to Kerr Capital, supporters of the show.
Okay. Welcome to another edition of Small Business Banter radio. Today's guest, James Garland. James, the Director at the DGB group, he'll tell you what DGB group does, but he's also had a long-standing involvement in fundraising in the not-for-profit area, brand development. He's also got some personal interest in small businesses and investments.
What we're going to chat about today is the business of the not-for-profit social enterprise, third sector. We're really looking forward to this chat, welcoming James.
James Garland: Hey, Michael. How are you doing?
Michael: Excellent. Thanks for calling in from a car, somewhere in Regional Victoria.
James: No problem. I spent a fair bit of time here, so it's often a car call.
Michael: Yeah. The sound is coming through really nicely. It's great to have you in. Look, I gave a really tight description. Do you want to expand a little bit more on your professional background, and also today, where you are with DGB group?
James: Yeah, of course. I came out of university and went into the world of advertising, marketing, media sales, and working in agencies around State[?] campaigns, promotions, that side of the commercial world. I was over in London, working in an agency, doing live events, merchandising, marketing, and one of my clients was a charity involved in children's safety or child safety. I thought it might be a good thing while I'm away from home and tripping the light, fantastic across Europe, to maybe explore some different things in my career.
I took a job that was offered as part of a big roll out by the UK government around what they call "Personal, Social, Health Education" for kids about being safe, and I just fell in love with it. I was young at the time. I was in my mid-20s, and I think a lot of people get into the not-for-profit or for-purpose sector a bit later in life, but it was really early for me. Out of what I thought would be a career in Commerce, I fell into the not-for-profit world really early, and I've been there ever since.
Michael: It's a bit of a calling, was it?
James: Well, I think I said to my mum, I remember she said, "What are you doing? It sounds really interesting. It's very different. It's not what I thought you would do. Is it what you really want to do?" I said, "Well, I'm finding a whole lot more meaning in working with organizations and engaging my passion and my skills in things that are changing the world, or at least changing the lives of people, rather than selling white goods or something else that, quite frankly, a well-loved[?] fridge." I really connected with the passion of the "Why?" while I was doing the work, and came back to Australia, took a contract at World Vision, Save the Children, worked at Cancer Research, a whole bunch of different not-for-profits on the inside, and loved them all. I went outside to the consulting side, and it's even better. You get to work with a dozen not-for-profits at any one time to, again, try and hopefully make the world a better place.
Michael: Yeah. You really acted on something that came to you in your mid-20s which was something that you couldn't turn away. Working today in DGB across with not-for-profits and for-purpose businesses, what exactly does the DGB group do?
James: Yeah. DGB is really, for guys who came out of advertising, naming it after the 3 principal directors is not exactly super creative, is it? Dalton Garland Blanchard, we're a really boutique agency. We strictly work with for-purpose organizations, so large and small, summer startups, some of the most exciting stuff in a sector's coming out of not-for-profit startup still. We work with those groups, specifically, that have plans to really transform themselves in the communities that they serve. We talk a lot about transformational projects, not so much your traditional tin rattling or, "Can you give us a gift this time at Christmas so that we can keep the lights on?" We work more so on a really larger scale, more complex growth projects, and our role is to help that organization build capacity, help them get ready, and help them carry out the fundraising for those projects.
Michael: Okay, and bringing that experience you had in marketing and brand development to this sector, which I think, broadly, is called the "third sector" incorporating not-for-profit social enterprise, for-purpose. How big is the third sector, if that's the right term, at the moment?
James: It's big. It's really big, and it's getting bigger off the back of what we've seen in the last few years. Everyone's starting to realize that our social fabric and the health of other people who are less fortunate, perhaps, than others, actually impacts everybody. We're in one, big world, and I don't think anyone could start. There's been a time, perhaps more prevalent than now, that everyone's really realizing that. We don't talk about the third sector much, but you're right. It is the sort of term, the "third sector", "private sector", "public sector", and then this "not-for-profit voluntary sector", but the contribution, economically.
I think Deloitte did a study which was talking over $100 billion in Australia alone is the economic contribution of that sector, but I think the difference with that sector is that the impact is not really about finance or economics. It's actually about impact on people and the environment, on the world, on animals, on all sorts of things.
It's interesting that we are now turning to needing the world to be a better place, in terms of climate, health, pandemics, and poverty, yet we call this sector the "third sector". Maybe it's the third thing that we've really cared about, but I don't know, maybe it should be the first sector [crosstalk] because if we don't have a planet to live on, private and public sectors doesn't mean much, does it?
Michael: It certainly doesn't. It probably is an old term, but I was looking for something to collectively describe what you do, but it sounds like it's at a pretty exciting stage with the energy around startups. Would a lot of those startups call themselves social enterprises? If yes, can you describe what a social enterprise is and how it operates?
James: Yeah, for sure. Definitely, social enterprises, it's more than a buzz. Perhaps I'll come back to that because some of these startups are just traditional not-for-profits that someone's got a great idea, or they innovate. Innovations are really big drivers of some of the coolest not-for-profit movements that are coming out.
Regeneration of environment is big. In fact, environment's a real hotbed for innovation, people talking about plastics in the ocean and developing technologies that can create cleaner worlds, when obviously, some of that sits in biotech and agritech, and those sorts of industries. A lot of people do also go, "Hey, we've got a great idea. Instead of commercializing it, we're going to make a not-for-profit. We're going to allow everyone to invest in this and own it globally. Environments are great hotbeds for that at the moment.
The social enterprise is kind of this next step in not being, a [inaudible] not-for-profit, because really, you want a social enterprise to make a profit. It's there to actually make a profit so it can support either its supply chain of fair trade coffee or the young people that it's giving a job to. It's different because it needs to be profitable, and it should be profitable. It's definitely getting a lot bigger, social enterprise. I think, fundamentally, the public wants all companies to have an element of social impact unconscious[?], and social enterprise is probably the peak of that, I guess, where all prophets, all outcomes, and all impacts go back to that social cause.
Michael: Yes, it's a very clear purpose for that organization or that business if you like.
James: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah. I've certainly had some involvement in advising social enterprises and it's kind of what you said, it has to be a viable or sustainable business model because otherwise, all that energy, all that hope, it can all disappear if you don't have a fundamentally sound financial base. The social enterprise is kind of a blending of business and other objectives, and measures of success.
James: Correct, yeah. I think you've got to have a values alignment around who starts it, runs it, works in it, and carries it forward. I think sometimes, social enterprises can be so successful, they become brands in their own right, they become really well-known, they become sought-after entities or businesses. Your values are going to hold true to, say, you could almost turn it into a retail chain, you could commercialize it. It's difficult because really, the function is there for what it is, a social enterprise. The people that are in it want them to be committed for the long term for it to remain that social enterprise piece.
Michael: I think it could create a conundrum for the founders of these things because it is so successful, it does have value for other organizations. That's some of the experiences I've had with these founders, and they're unsure about how to take it forward.
James: Totally.
Michael: With the DGB group and the work you do, what you've acknowledged, it's a very significant sector. Did I have the same set of issues that for-profit businesses have? At the end of the day, are they struggling under finding employees and other day-to-day challenges that business faces?
James: Yeah, massively. I'd suggest even more so, in particular, in the area of growth of business. If you're looking to recruit people under an award for community services or disability, generally, there's hardships in recruiting those people also, but certainly on the side of the work that we do around big transformational projects, project management, we're putting a different type of business case together for any one of these organizations, and they need really good, highly skilled people internally, who can build relationships much like some of your work around capital and advisory. You're dealing with sophisticated people that want to invest in social change. You need some pretty savvy people. We see a massive shortage of really good, savvy, articulate, strong relationship builders in the sector. The good ones get snapped up very quickly, and organizations that want to connect with philanthropists, major corporates, big businesses with government, they need really good people to be able to build those relationships, and you got to hold those relationships long term. It's really hard to get good people in the sector who probably do have to take a bit of a pay cut, because most [crosstalk] not-for-profits are pretty tight, [crosstalk] so it's tough.
Michael: It reinforces the need, and however transformational the cause is and the energy, it's got to be underpinned by revenue, capital, and profits to be able to survive. [crosstalk]
James: A hundred percent.
Michael: On today's episode of Small Business Banter, we're talking with James Garland, who's a Director at DGB group and a very experienced operator in the not-for-profit social enterprise sector.
Sounds like there's some heavy lifting being done by the sector. Is that what for-profit businesses aren't seeing, what don't want to follow some of these imperatives, and that's the opening for not-for-profit social enterprises to really take on these transformational projects?
James: Yeah. That's an awesome question because it is absolutely rooted in one of the greatest things that the third sector or the full purpose organizations can do, and they can do what government can't. They can take risks that government can't. Private companies owned fundamentally by their shareholders, they can't necessarily always take the risks that are needed to generate social change. The third sector, not the largest, in terms of economic impact, is one of those places where you can play and you can fail, and many do. You're trying to alleviate social issues like child trafficking, poverty, and stuff like that. You can't roll out a low-risk private-style business plan to deal with something like that. You're going to need to adapt. You're going to need to find ways to achieve those goals. [crosstalk] It absolutely has this great role.
Michael: Yeah. Do you need the founder to be totally absorbed, connected, and driven by that particular cause to really see the business, the social [crosstalk] enterprise?
James: Yes. That's an interesting angle, too, because a lot of organizations come from our founders' passion. Over a period of time, what that organization will need will be much more than that founder can give because they're one person. Like in any business, you'll need a multidisciplinary approach to how you're going to tackle the root cause, so they're being great people that have started their own foundations, and people be aware of them are famous athletes, started foundations dedicated to specific issues. Cathy Freeman has done a huge amount of work for indigenous kids and communities, and is super passionate about that. Lots of these organizations start with a small number of founders, but as they gather steam, like any commercial business, they need a really good, strong, well-rounded team to be able to scale for impact.
Michael: Yeah, it parallels exactly. You know what happens in startups.
James: True.
Michael: You need somebody or a team of people to see the opportunity and make it happen. It's got some shortcomings, and then it's a cycle, like a management team or a more broadly experienced team comes in. One of the things that I was exposed to in my work in social enterprise was, there's only so much money to go around from benefactors, foundations, and from government. The imperative was find your own revenue streams, which I think the UK has been pretty innovative in building and fostering the social enterprise sector. It seems like what you do with your client is also taking them to the next level, in terms of raising the money they need to deliver the transformational change.
James: Yeah. We talked a lot about a lot of not-for-profits, and we've all been to the Black Tie ball, the luncheon, or have something arrive in the mail box saying, "Hey, we're a new charity, too. Can you support us?" There's a lot of low hanging fruit that a lot of organizations engage in, in order to try and keep those lights on, and it's all really valued. It's already really valuable investment. We probably look at more sophisticated approaches similar to any business, a startup, or organization looking to raise capital. We work with a lot of sophisticated investors, people that are real philanthropists themselves, and look at how they invest their money in not-for-profits. We work with the government, obviously, who have got to mandate across a lot of these issues to either be supportive, or help drive, and of course, big corporates, the big retailers, and others.
Michael: That is some absolutely fantastic work.
James: As to the banks, probably a lot of the time, we hang it on the banks, big retail, and other groups like that, thinking that they're just in it, making money, but we've seen some of our clients in the last 2 or 3 years, multi-million dollar contributions to not-for-profits from these big corporates, not just pocket change, but absolutely transformational support for different projects. Some of them aren't heavily publicized at all. It's just that organization believing in something that it's a line with their mission, and they invest accordingly. We work on those larger scale projects that really do require multiples of millions, but the impact will be really significant. That takes time, like all good things, you've got to do planning, you need strong budgets, you need to ask yourself all the questions that someone else would ask. It's certainly not as simple as shaking the team in the street, so to speak.
Michael: Yeah. It's next level, I suppose, but I think the future for the social enterprise for-purpose sector is pretty bright because there's a lot of problems and challenges, and they're possibly more exposed than ever. It's that energy for people to take something on, is incredible. It's really wonderful to see somebody connect.
At the smaller end, I think there are a lot of really, incredibly valuable work being done by small micro social enterprises where someone's attached to a cause, and they've created themselves a job, while also supporting the cause. Yeah, there seems to be a host of problems, the sector outlook pretty strong and bright.
James: Yeah. I think that we're going to see slightly new models, too. There's a social enterprise group/organization forming, which I'm a part of, in a voluntary capacity. Traditionally we've seen this move to this, not necessarily be equal[?], but more social enterprise, where people start a cafe and they source all of their products ethically, they employ people with disadvantage, and so every step of their supply chain, they're engaged in social impact. That's great as a standalone business. I think the next evolution of social enterprise will be broadening that, so that social enterprise isn't just hospitality driven, cleaning, or some of those things where there's a logical fit. It will be really great when we have real social enterprise across financial sectors, across potentially, resources, and other services, so that it can be seen as an actual business model for all sectors. It does tend to be a bit pigeon-holed at the moment, but we don't have this, as far as I know, any social enterprise real estate agency chains or car dealerships. There's space for this model to play everywhere, so I think there's still a huge amount of growth in [inaudible].
Michael: What's the cap on that, James? Is it just being brave to take on some of those much bigger businesses in bigger industries, or is that capital?
James: Yeah, it's a good question. It could be all of the above there. I mean, we have a pure shareholder financial return model traditionally for [crosstalk] any business, directorship, or ownership.
Michael: Three monthly reporting and bottom line, bottom line?
James: That's right. More of the single bottom line than the triple bottom line, and then versus social impact in a fair society. Now, there's some really great intent out there, but we've all got to want to change the world and have that fairer society. That's going to have to come at the cost of hard profits at some point, but again, there's still a lot of hope, because people that have had success or intergenerational wealth are more attuned to social need than ever before, and we see that. We call these people, they're sophisticated philanthropists, they are looking at opportunities for this change to be made, and they're not necessarily wanting anything in return. Some underwriting some will invest in a social enterprise, some will just gift philanthropically, but there are some absolutely wonderful people out there who are really putting their money out as gifting seed funding contributions to real game-changing projects.
I think that's where the magic might happen, Michael, where you get those really savvy people saying, "Listen, I'm fine, financially. I don't want for anything. That's a great idea. I'm just going to back it because." There is a lot of that out there, but again, in order to present those cases and in order to excite those people and align their passion with an area of social cause that floats their boat, it takes time. You got to really tip[?] into that, what we call a "case for support", which is fundamentally a business case for the for-purpose.
Michael: Yeah. There's got to be more effort, doesn't it? Anybody that's got a profile and is well-off, I'm sure they get approaches all the time and [crosstalk] for anybody you see, there'd be individuals and companies around, but they are going to have their own processes to use a boring term, but to select who they're going to support and why? [crosstalk] You got any tips for the next generation of business owners, maybe they're in school now, or just out of school, in terms of encouraging them into the sector?
James: As I said, I sort of fell into it early on, but there's a lot you learn from a sector, too, at an early age. In this day and age where we're rightly so looking at greater diversity on our boards and in governance, we want youth representation because everyone understands that young people have a different view point on the future, young people like you and I, Michael, and others even younger than us.
Michael: Younger at heart.
James: Yeah. It's exactly right.
Michael: Yeah.
James: Getting involved in community activities is highly rewarding for self. We often talk about how you can get involved, what you can do, but it's almost the giving to others is being shown that, especially modern days, and I'll bore you with a bit of MRI, health sciences on philanthropy, but it triggers the brain and lights the brain up when you give, you're involved, you give selflessly, and you're engaged in things above and beyond your own self. I'd encourage people to get engaged with this sector, with the altruistic, if we can call it the giving sector, not just for what you might learn and how you might connect with, on boards or in projects, and obviously, just to do really good stuff in the community, but do it for yourself.
The days of mental health, being such a high agenda issue, it's incredible, the goodwill and the feeling that you get. People who are pretty much full-time philanthropists now will say, "The work that I do now is just so much more rewarding than anything I ever did commercially, because it gives me a sense of self."
Michael: Yeah. That's excellent advice. That's a great, unfortunately, way to leave our time today, James, but I think that message is, "Get involved in something," and it's almost wide into you that there's lots of ways you're going to benefit and contribute.
James Garland from DGB Group, thank you very much for your time today.
James: It's a pleasure, Michael. Thanks for having me.
Michael: That is all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired, bringing you small business experts and other small business owners, and hearing their stories.
Do you want to listen to any past episode? Jump onto your podcast platform of choice and search Small Business Banter. There, you will find a diverse and fascinating collection of small business owners and experts openly discussing and sharing their experiences.
For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today, or to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com, or you can find us on Facebook and Instagram.
It would be great to have you tune in the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.
[END]
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Claude Trimboli, Accountant and Liquidator, on how small business owners can better manage debt to avoid insolvency.
00:51:27
@Claude Trimboli from @charlesandco talks about the complexities of business liquidation and restructuring. The discussion covers the critical importance of understanding cash flow, the role of early intervention in financial distress, and the emotional toll on business owners facing insolvency.
Claudio emphasizes the need for proactive measures, mental health awareness, and the collaborative approach necessary for navigating these challenging situations.
The discussion highlights the significance of having a solid grasp of financial numbers and the value of seeking help from trusted advisors.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Peter Hurst from founded www.roadiii.com to showcase more of the great Australian #festivals, #culturalevents, #wineries and #distilleries that don't get the media limelight, are off the #beatentrack or are actually #huddengems.
His mission is to challenge Australians to get out #ontheroad. He started www.roadiii.com about 3 years ago (and 2 weeks before Covid19).
Originally trained as a #schoolteacher but spent 20 years working with companies including General Motors and Nylex
He's also been heavily involved in #lifesaving around Australia. and his first small business (he's still got it) was Surf Safety Australia that supplies safety products to lifesaving clubs in Australia and overseas, particularly the UK.
In our discussion we talk about;
how Google driving him to distraction drove him to start #roadiii
how his design approach for the website was driven by wanting to spend more time more time on the road and less on the computer
the philosophy of his UX approach being to get people out into the regions to do road trips and to take in more than just the traditional tourism options
making #holidays richer and more fulfilling
launching 2 weeks before Covid19 and adapting
combining something that's a passion of yours with a business (and a business that can be run on the road)
lessons learnded - being open because you are never quite sure where opportunity comes from
being a massive believer that a small business should be founded on passion and interest
how small business can be tough and very often it's that idea of 1% inspiration 99% perspiration. So if you're gonna work that hard, and soak up your spare time, you've got to love what you do.
how his commercial experience also tells him that you've got to be pretty analytical as well and try to avoid wasting time and wasting money
having a realistic expectation of what you want from that small business
why it doesn't have to be, you know, a million dollar a year business to be something that can be viable and enjoyable and sustainable
going into business with a customer mindset, looking for things that you enjoy and that people want, then that's the basis
taking small risks, and taking them one at a time, and understanding what you might lose.
how three wins and one loss can give you a basis for building a business
#smallbusinessheros
#IanKiernan from @CleanUpAustraliaDay - an inspirational endeavor, shows you what's possible from an idea, shows you what's possible from a bit of perseverance and also a bit of support from those people that should support the creatives, the individuals that, try new ideas out
Also a secret admirer of the owners of the Sir George Hotel, and the Long Track Pantry in https://www.sirgeorge.com.au/ #Jugiong #NSW in the middle of amazing country, but surrounded by nothing but farms - incredible success out of a rundown hotel
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Harry Kras from Family Business Resource Centre on drawing out and dealing with the unique issues in family owned businesses
00:27:51
@HarryKras from the @fbrc is an expert in #familybusiness. He's a self-described ordinary guy who has a passion for working with families in business together and has done now for well over 30 years.
A routine #estateplanning exercise brought him to working exclusively with #familybusinesses, after a realisation that great #technicaladvice wasn't enough because there was so much going on below the surface in most #familybusinesses. In our discussion we cover;
what defines a family business
his definition - more than two or three family members working together in a business
while no business is simple, combining business with family and family #values makes for a very complex situation
#decisionmaking in commercial business, with no family interests, vs family businesses i.e. employing the best possible person for the job or finding something for a son or my daughter to give them a head start
how each family is unique and each family has its own way of doing things
how family businesses evolve from wanting to create a livelihood to educating and providing opportunities to increase family wealth, and then kind of slowly dragging family members in
family members - giving an opportunity to learn or cheap employees? Getting the kids in to do the odd jobs owner's don't want to do
the numbers - 70% of businesses in Australia are family-owned
family business as an enormous employer and creator of jobs wealth within the country (common with most western economies, in India and lots of #asiancountries)
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 1 - Jill Weeks, author and educator, from where2now.net on new and different ways to think about and 'do' retirement.
00:27:52
@JillWeeks has travelled widely across Australian and spoken with hundreds of people about #retirement. Where to retire? How to retire? What to do in retirement? Drawing on these stories from inspiring people Jill shares her tips on different ways to think about and 'do' retirement.
In our discussion we cover;
how retirement has changed in the last 20-30 years, and how this has opened up more options
how the development of technology has allowed for retirement to involve a;
#profitablehobby
#homebasedbusiness, or
#freelancework
personal planning for life after business
how business owners can find themsleves with little to do after they #sellabusiness to #retire
the impact of selling your business and retiring on a #businessowners
the need to rethink your approach to retirement to maintain #purpose
rethinking how to use your 40 work hours when you don't have a job or a busines
the importance of “protecting your brain” during retirement to ensure you are continually challenging yourself
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Her business started in 2011 while studying Industrial Design at @RMIT in Melbourne and being on a traditional professional trajectory to #designfurniture. But an incident in Europe while on a study tour changed that. She got her period and asked a European friend if they a pad or a tampon? Her friend told her she did not use those and what followed was an education about the #menstrualcup.
In this episode we cover;
her personal experiences and lessons learned after she considered, and ultimately declined, an unexpected offer to sell a share of her business
getting really excited about this concept of a #reusableproduct, that you only have to buy once every ten years, that was also really good for the #environment
getting inspired and getting back to Australia to get started
getting increased #businessvalue from making the business less dependent on the owner
realising your business is an investment and cultivating value
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Jonathan Roberts on how he and 2 business partners achieved their unconventional exit from One Rabbit after 27 years of working together.
00:41:44
@JonathanRoberts co-founded @OneRabbit with 2 partners 10 years ago. He'd worked with those same partners for 17 years prior in a marketing and design business, which ultimately morphed into One Rabbit.
Along the way he's founded, owned and exited multiple other businesses. In this episode and based on that deep experience as an entrepreneur Jonathan shares high value insights on the challenges and rewards of making a strategic exit. Specifically he talks about;
how 3 partners exited their marketing firm with friendship Intact
the importance of recognizing when passion and energy wane
how assessing one's satisfaction and enthusiasm regularly can be pivotal in determining the right time for a change
the significance of exit planning, building systems into the business, diversifying income streams, and maximizing profits
the value of finding new passion and purpose beyond the business
A must-listen for potential business sellers and entrepreneurs seeking to exit on their terms and with confidence.
"Enjoy it, stay there while you enjoy it, make it as profitable as you can. And then when you stop enjoying it, pull the trigger, move on." - Jonathan Roberts
RESOURCES:
Visit www.zerowasteproject.com.au to explore the Zero Waste Project and learn more about their products and initiatives
Search for www.fridgefriend.com.au to find the domestic product offered by Zero Waste Project and discover how it can help reduce food waste at home
Connect with Jonathan Roberts on LinkedIn for further insights and updates on his entrepreneurial journey and business ventures.
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:06 - Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast Michael Kerr introduces the Small Business Banter podcast and discusses its focus on business owners at different stages of ownership, such as selling, being approached by potential buyers, or aspiring to buy a new business.
00:01:13 - Guest Introduction and Business Background Jonathan Roberts shares his extensive background in sales and marketing, including founding and growing One Rabbit, a professional services marketing firm. The discussion touches on the unique approach taken by One Rabbit and its transition into a consulting firm.
00:05:42 - The Transition to One Rabbit and Business Philosophy Jonathan explains the transformation of One Rabbit, emphasizing the decision to focus solely on professional service firms. The discussion also delves into the philosophy behind the name "One Rabbit" and the shift towards a no BS approach in marketing.
00:09:27 - Knowing When to Wind Up a Business Jonathan discusses the natural progression towards winding up One Rabbit after 27 years, citing a loss of enthusiasm and a desire to pursue other business interests. The impact of COVID-19 and the exploration of potential alternatives, including selling the business, are also mentioned.
00:16:55 - Navigating Business Partnerships and Personal Reflection The conversation touches on the dynamics of business partnerships, personal attachment to a business, and the gratitude for accomplishments over 27 years. Jonathan shares insights on communication within partnerships and the departure of co-founders.
00:17:23 - The Importance of Conscious Business Decision-making Jonathan discusses the importance of conscious decision-making when it comes to exiting, not exiting, or selling a business. He emphasizes the need to have a plan and be aware of the options available.
00:19:27 - The Trade-off in Exiting a Business Jonathan shares his experience of stepping away from his business after 27 years. He discusses the factors that led to the decision, including being passionate about other business opportunities and feeling less motivated in the current one.
00:25:32 - Renewed Purpose in New Ventures Jonathan talks about his new business ventures related to reducing food waste and the positive impact it has. He highlights the renewed vigor and purpose he feels in his current endeavors, compared to his previous consulting business.
00:28:51 - The Entrepreneurial Spirit and Continuous Growth Jonathan discusses his entrepreneurial spirit and the excitement of building new businesses. He emphasizes the importance of continuously investing time and energy into new ventures and the satisfaction it brings.
00:31:23 - Maximizing Earnings and Exit Planning Jonathan advises business owners to maximize their earnings while in the business and invest in exit planning. He acknowledges the challenges of selling a business and the need for conscious decision-making throughout the process.
00:34:27 - Building Business Systems Jonathan reflects on the need for more business systems in their knowledge-based business to diversify income streams and maximize profits. He emphasizes the importance of smart marketing and working with enjoyable clients.
00:37:18 - Becoming an Expert Jonathan discusses the bravery required to say no to clients and the importance of becoming an expert in a specific niche to command higher fees and provide better service.
00:38:05 - Exit and Succession Planning Jonathan shares his perspective on exit planning, emphasizing the importance of enjoying the business, making it profitable, and recognizing the right timing to move on.
00:39:40 - Finding Jonathan Jonathan provides information about his website and encourages listeners to connect with him for further discussions or inquiries about his business.
00:40:46 - Wrapping Up The host, Michael Kerr, concludes the episode, encourages listeners to subscribe, and offers personal assistance through the website. He also announces the release of new episodes every couple of weeks.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
PART 1 - Andy Gowers, succession planning expert, on the best way for families to stay together while tackling the complexities of managing generational wealth.
founding and selling his own wealth management business
He's launched a new business in Succession Planning (with David Naphtali) and was recently appointed #president Hawthorn Football Club.
This is part 1 of 2 episodes. Over the 2 episodes we talk a lot about succession planning and #exitplanning for private and family businesses, and cover;
what he learned growing up in a family #smallbusiness;
living in an environment which was on reflection high-stress, where a lot of things that weren't said caused more problems than the things that were said,
and how this led to his fascination in succession planning, and helping as many families and businesses that he can to address these issues
what he learned when working in the wealth management area of #ANZbank during the #GFC
the #startup of his own wealth management business with a partner and selling that after 11 years
why the financial planning discussion was really important to get the the management of people's wealth right but recognising bigger picture to be drawn was #succession
his mission to help #families (and avoid the potential downsides of wealth)
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Darrin Johnson CEO on how Kudos Services started as a spunoff State Government department and developed into a thriving employee owned and managed mutual
Kudos Services is a #disabilityagency that supports around about six and a half thousand children and young people living with a #disability to have an independent life and has expertise in the more complex and of disability.
Darrin is the second guest in a four-episode series on #cooperatives and #mutuals brought to you by @BCCM (Business Council of Cooperatives & Mutuals)
We talk about the heritage of Kudos, its history as a State Government Department, creation of the current employee owned mutual structure (non-distributing, employee-owned not-for-profit) and much more including;
how the staff (or what we call members) own the business and have a lot of say in direction but don't take a financial dividend
how a lack of commercial interest in the "business" led to a dilemma - who's going to provide the services to these complex case children and young people?
the commercial constraints from specializing in complex clients where the #NDIS model doesn't pay any differently whether you're dealing with a complex case or a simple case
the #spinoff to a service owned by the staff in 2018
the internal joke that we're 4 years old, but we've got staff that have worked for us for 20 years
the power of a committed bunch of individuals that really wanted to work in the space and took the brave step of really electing to leave the security of public service and move to what at the time was regarded as a pretty risky move; a new sort of concept first in Australia, as a public service spun off mutual
knowing that you're actually a part of something, you're actually part of building something, not just a cog in the wheel
having a real clear sense of the purpose that will motivate people to work through a more unusual model, which these businesses are.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Justin Costello from Costello Rural Real Estate on personal resilience
00:27:51
Justin Costello runs Costello Rural https://www.costellorural.com.au/ in Corryong, Victoria. It a second-generation family business. He grew up in Corryong, went away and then came back to take over the business from his father.
In this episode he shares his personal experiences as a business owner and talks openly about his experiences of the Corryong fires in 2020. We cover;
building business skills by doing #apprenticeships and #workplacements with several valuation companies and real estate businesses that actually turned the light on to take my education further
his exposure to really strong business minds and mentors
the handover of the family business
his desire to reset after 2020, a roller coaster year, with the fires and then COVID.
using technology to help business owners
how when you talk about implementing technology, you have got to bring staff along with you
the level of preparation for disasters in small business owners in regional and community areas
@agriweb as a platform to make asset lists and tasks to minimize risk and so that you know where your assets are, where your water points are for fire trucks and have those that equipment serviced regularly
the critical importance of communication and asking are you okay? Do you need anything?
the role of the local lion's club, the rotary, the church in lifting and communicating on that higher level to make sure there is no one slipping through the gaps
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Joh Lyons from Gippsland Social Enterprise Collective talks about social entrepreneurs solving societal problems
00:27:51
Joh Lyons @johblogs from Gippsland Social Enterprise Collective @gippsend talks about how #SocialEnterprise enable entrepreneurs to solve societal problems while creating sustainable jobs and businesses.
Joh is based in Traralgon. She has a diversified professional career spanning teaching, running small businesses and being actively involved in the #socialenterprise, #notforprofit and #forpurpose sectors.
In the episode we cover;
Some of the successful social enterprises operating in the La Trobe Valley
Connecting purpose with business
Creating your own job in the face of a difficult traditional employment market
The opportunities for social entrepreneurs of all ages - from school leavers to baby boomers
The natural life cycle of social enterprises and how founders deal with that for the benefit of the business
The need for succession planning for social enterprises
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
Moira received an Australian honour in 2019 (AM) for her significant service to the community of #SouthAustralia. She is passionate about #inclusion, #diversity and alignment with the #SDGs (Sustainable Development Goals), bringing this perspective to the development of governance, engagement and reporting for impact.
the #hackathon that started it all - they put a proposition to teams to ask the question "If there was an online platform, to support co-op creatives or people who are creatives, what could that be? What could it look like?"
the #lawyers, #entrepreneurs, #investors, #community leaders and #techies who volunteered.
building things on the fly
what it would mean to run a business and cross the digital divide
test some models about how we can disrupt the #patriarchy - rather than giving my $10 subscription to Silicon Valley or a bunch of blokes in a boardroom in San Francisco, or London, or New York, why not give it to another kind of system? And so that was part of the provocation.
disrupt #colonisation through cooperative mechanisms and cooperative endeavors
how they plan to overcome challenges in the digital space so the #artists and #creators get better at putting their work into the world
some inbuilt and equitable #tech processes e.g. a process where the content of the artisans gets completely refreshed every time you press it. So it's not just the ones who are making all the money that get up the top, which is what's typical in most of the other kinds of platforms like that
#feministbusinessprinciples and trying to build equity into the platform itself, as well as for the participants
the incredible networks and fabulous people who have nurtured and supported #Flock
board members @KateSimpson and @PrekaVermont
individual women and non-binary folks who are really trying to change the world
how communities work, how money flows through communities, and how communities and that economic base can create the conditions for more equitable or more just relationships
how #firstnationspeople have been cooperative - there wasn't a legal structure around that but let's not pretend this is new
it's always been the preferred model for humans to work together, and to look to First Nations for advice around that
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
the pro's and con's of having a few wines with her best friend and deciding to quit their corporate jobs and buying a retail business without any retail experience, and
as a result finding her passion for marketing and social media
growing a retail business in a regional area, and growing it during one of the worst droughts
transforming and then selling the shop before deciding to help other small business owners grow their businesses and really make marketing a priority for them
the spark for @spendwithus from spending a lot of time working with #ruralbusinesses, and touring around rural #NewSouthWales#Deniliquin#Hay#Leeton#Griffith and seeing everyone was really sad and not particularly looking forward to Christmas,
#spendwithus starting as a #Facebookgroup to help regional businesses sell to a different audience that was outside their towns , think #Amazon but for rural and regional Australia , that's got 315,000 people in it now.
her hard won first first lessons in marketing - to listen to the customers
why there is no such thing as mistake, just lessons to learn from
being a ready fire aim person, who prefers to just do it and perfect it as you go along because if we wait for the right time, it may never come,
finding a business to buy by knocking on doors
her aims;
start a marketplace out so people could actually put their products on a website with traffic coming
get small businesses online with a shopping cart even if they don't have a website
the type and size of customers on the platform
using emotive language and not just telling me the features
why just opening the front door and expecting customers to flock in won't work offline or online
getting started by dipping a toe in the water
being blown away at the talent that rural Australia has
having some very hairy lofty goals for @spendwithus to be a household name like @amazon by showcasing rural and regional Australia
her best three tips for owners who are struggling with social media;
show up because people do business with people they know, like and trust. And if you are always just putting products and not showing this your actual face and your voice and your personality, then that is the number one thing that you can do better
as far as your marketing goes no matter what platform you're on or what piece of marketing, you're looking at, people have to get in front of that camera
networking and collaborations - she is a huge advocate that your network is relative to your net worth. So, if you want to get more sales, get out there join your local chamber, your local tourism board, whatever it is and brand yourself as part of your business.
Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.
Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.
Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.
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