REWORK (37signals)
Explore every episode of REWORK
| Pub. Date | Title | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 07 Dec 2021 | Outside Money is Plan Z | 00:28:27 | |
Taking outside money to start your business may seem like a good idea, but there are a ton of strings attached... You give up control. Cashing out becomes the #1 priority. It's addictive. It's usually a bad deal. Customers become less important than investors... You get the idea. Outside money should never be plan A. Show Notes
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| 29 Mar 2023 | Listener Questions / AMA | 00:24:01 | |
In this episode of Rework, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer questions posed by Rework listeners. Listen in as they share their insights and experiences in running a successful software company by answering questions from podcast listeners on topics such as 37signals' approach to design, decision-making processes, product management, and balancing managerial roles and responsibilities. Tune in to hear their unique perspectives on these key aspects of building a successful software company. Show Notes:
[00:23] - Noel asks David and Jason about their philosophy on design systems and using components instead of reinventing the wheel every time. [01:01] - Jason explains that 37signals' website is a collection of ideas. The product itself is their design system. [03:07] - As with Basecamp and Hey, design consistency can emerge naturally. [03:30] - David shares that large organizations typically use design systems to standardize processes. [05:34] - Why it makes sense for individual designers to have ownership over the design process for small teams like 37signals. [06:52] - Listener Paul asks how David and Jason resolve conflicts and make difficult decisions. [07:02] - Jason explains conflicts are rare among the team and shares how they handle the things they don't agree on (without keeping score). [08:18] - Why it's important to remember most decisions are temporary. [08:59] - Jason shares an example of the rare occurrences when they might battle. [09:49] - Setting the standards for a smooth workflow. [11:30] - David's philosophy: "A willingness to try anything as long as there's an expiration on the experiment and a way to tell whether it went one way or the other." [12:55] - Jason explains why they don't need to consult each other for every decision—even the BIG ones, like leaving the cloud. [14:28] - Prioritizing independence, competency, and TRUST. [16:50] - Podcast listener Tim asks Jason and David to discuss 37signals' approach to product management and some of their methods over the years. [17:20] - David shares how using software to gather and distribute information, allowing teams to make decisions, leads to everyone rowing in the same boat. [20:19] - Jason adds that with two-person teams, there is a direct relationship between the programmer and designer, and management would get in the way. [22:21] - Fighting hard against traditional managerial responsibilities because having managers invent work for other people can wreck a good thing (David and Jason only wear the hats of CTO and CEO occasionally). [23:25] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or email. Links and Resources: Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | REWORK | |||
| 30 Apr 2020 | BONUS - Breadcamp | 00:18:56 | |
Basecampers Nathan Anderson and Joan Stewart talk about their love of baking bread and how to get started if you're a newbie. As Joan says, you just have to believe. Show Notes The New York Times chocolate chip cookie recipe, adapted from Jacques Torres - 00:43 Nathan Anderson on Twitter - 1:00 Nathan attended Artisan Bread Camp, taught by Tom Edwards. Read a Washington Post story about the reporter's experience at the same session (Nathan is briefly mentioned in the article and is in one of the photos.) - 2:00 Bon Appétit YouTube channel - 2:14 Joan Stewart on Twitter - 2:17 "Brad and Claire Make Sourdough Bread" - 2:35 Claire Saffitz on Instagram - 2:39 Bread magazine - 3:00 Recipes for using sourdough starter discard - 5:05 Edna Mode - 7:25 | |||
| 03 Nov 2022 | Company Meet-Up: Amsterdam Edition | 00:18:39 | |
Meetups offer remote companies an opportunity to gather away from the day-to-day for more in-depth conversations that foster deeper relationships for the team and bigger leaps for the company.
At the beginning of October, sixty 37signals employees met up in Amsterdam for the first company-wide meetup outside the U.S.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the importance of in-person meetups for remote companies, the structure they use for their twice-yearly team gathering, and tips and insight for other companies on planning their own offsite meetings.
Show Notes:
Links and Resources: @37signals on Twitter | |||
| 05 May 2020 | Kids Incorporated | 00:22:58 | |
Endless Zoom meetings, being cut off from friends, the widespread cancellation of summer fun, ricocheting between boredom and anxiety—kids have it pretty rough! And it's no picnic for their parents, either. In this episode, businesses built on offering in-person enrichment for children talk about how they're adapting to reach families and stay resilient during this time. Show Notes Nancy Mork's biography - 00:47 Fussy Baby Network website | Facebook - 00:50 Erikson Institute - 00:53 Hatch Art Studio website | Instagram - 3:51 Collage Workshop for Kids by Shannon Merenstein - 3:55 Omowale Casselle on Twitter - 5:28 Digital Adventures website - 5:32 Bar Rucci's Art Bar Blog - 13:06 Eric Carle Museum of Picture Book Art - 21:17 Eric Carle's book is The Very Hungry Caterpillar (not The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar like Wailin says) - 21:21 Collage Workshop for Kids on Bookshop.org - 21:29 | |||
| 22 Oct 2019 | Meet Andy | 00:22:27 | |
"In the Market for a Marketer," our previous episode - 00:22 Andy Didorosi | Detroit Bus Co. - 00:50 "How Detroit ended up with the worst public transit" (Detroit Metro Times, 2014) - 1:45 "Baby Shark (doo doo do doo do doo), explained" (Vox) - 16:00 Jalopnik - 17:15 Andy's talk at the 2014 Adobe 99U Conference, "What Detroit Taught Me About Getting Things Done" - 19:04 "Eminem Opens a 'Mom's Spaghetti' Pop-Up in Detroit" (Vice, 2017) - 19:50 Small Giants - 20:24 | |||
| 07 Jun 2023 | It’s Time to Care About Costs | 00:29:38 | |
In a time when many companies are disregarding profitability and spending recklessly, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson have taken a different approach at 37signals. They believe that caring about costs is a timely concern and a fundamental principle for running a successful small business. In this episode of the “Rework” podcast, they sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the critical importance of cost management in today's business landscape. From reevaluating software subscriptions to establishing fixed pricing models, listen in as Jason and David share their proactive approach to cost management. They discuss strategies for navigating the dangers of unchecked expenses and eliminating unnecessary expenditures and their detrimental effects on a company’s long-term viability. Tune in as Jason and David share their practical insights and hard-won wisdom for building a sustainable AND profitable business in any economic climate. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the episode and opens today's discussion on the importance of caring about costs in business. [00:49] - As the availability of money is decreasing, companies are starting to realize the importance of profitability. [02:22] - Jason discusses the difficulty of shifting into a cost-conscious mindset and the common first steps of cutting costs. [03:39] - How to ensure profitability. [04:41] - David shares their experience during the dot-com boom and bust, which influenced their mindset of never wanting to be financially vulnerable. [06:24] - Why smaller bootstrap businesses must cultivate cost-conscious habits early on. [07:16] - Money buys independence (options, time, and flexibility). [08:07] - Redefining what makes financial sense and prioritizing cost-effectiveness—even if it's not your money. [08:50] - Companies are facing the harsh reality of survival. It’s time to focus on maintainable practices before it all comes crashing down. [09:40] - An opportunity to rein in wasteful spending for a more sustainable future. [10:37] - Without occasional controlled burns, the forest of technology becomes a ticking time bomb. [11:21] - A startup in Denmark is facing the end of their runway in just nine months—how they could extend their runway twofold. [12:19] - Kimberly shares about the caution-to-carelessness cycle that happens as small businesses begin to thrive. [12:43] - Jason shares how hard it is to break free from the spend-centric growth-chasing culture, especially when fueled by other people’s money. [14:13] - The "spend it all" mentality that creates a Monopoly-style illusion masking financial responsibility. [14:48] - The habit of spending is easily acquired, but making more than you spend is the real challenge, and in the next 18 months, companies lacking a profitable formula will face the music. [15:44] -Categorizing and Value Assessment: monitoring expenses depends on the stage of your business. [16:30] - David shares that if you evaluate costs beyond the immediate month or year, numbers that seem small become meaningful. [18:46] - Some costs can evoke disgust when examined closely—like our $3 million annual cloud bill—revealing their true magnitude [19:34] - A company should be a well-run, efficient system like a perfectly prepared hotdog. [20:42] - Kimberly shares that staffing and subscriptions are crucial to evaluate. Subscriptions, in particular, can accumulate and should be assessed for their value. [21:47] - David shares how 37signals prices their products and how overlooking unnecessary subscriptions can significantly impact your bottom line. [22:30] - Would you pay for multiple tools when one comprehensive so | |||
| 04 Oct 2023 | Hiring Senior Leaders, Getting Started with Six-Week Cycles, and Other Listener Questions | 00:30:44 | |
In this episode of Rework we're turning the spotlight onto you, our listeners, with another episode of listener questions. Today, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to pull back the curtain on the intricacies they faced when hiring a COO for their team, and the intuition-driven decision making they used to ensure their new hire would be a good fit and complement the team. Plus, how to help your company get started with working in six-week cycles, and adapting product development principles to professional services companies. Listen in to explore Jason and David's unconventional yet remarkably effective strategies for business development and growth. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic for today’s podcast, listener questions, with a question from Justin who asks, "I saw that you hired a COO in 2021 after not having someone in that role for a while. What’s the 37signals approach to executive hiring?" [00:46] - Jason discusses their decision to use a recruiter for hiring their new COO and shares which qualities were more important to them than the candidate's resume. [03:20] - David elaborates on the challenges of hiring executives, the importance of chemistry, and how Elaine complements their team. [06:41] - Reflecting on adding a third person to a team with a long history—why it was important to find someone who could introduce a dose of healthy conflict without making everything a grind. [08:07] - Jason shares how long the hiring process took, and what made them think that Elaine might be the right fit. [09:13] - David shares the importance of "gravitas"—having the weight and legitimacy to inspire trust and confidence in the team and how Elaine stood out compared to others in the hiring process. [10:44] - Kimberly shares this two-part question from Reuben: “What's your suggestion for helping a company get started with working in six-week cycles—is there a specific time to start? And are all the teams across 37signals synced on six-week cycles?” [11:07] - Jason shares his perspective on getting started with six-week cycles, his advice on when is a good time to start a cycle, and the one time he wouldn’t. [12:50] - David discusses the importance of individual focus in problem-solving and why he believes in starting with a small team to test Shape Up's effectiveness before implementing it company-wide. [15:41] - The benefits of having the entire company operate on the same clock frequency. [16:27] - Kimberly shares a question from a mystery caller asking for advice on adapting product development principles to professional services type companies, like public accounting or legal that work on hourly billing and tax deadlines or legal deadlines that they have to meet. [17:21] - Jason and David share how to apply the core ideas of Shape Up to diverse service types and internal areas of your organization. [19:43] - The value of setting shorter goals over six weeks, rather than annual goals to increase the chances that things will get done. [20:11] - How shorter cycles help prevent the pile-up of tasks and overwhelming situations that often occur at the end of longer timeframes. [20:49] - Kimberly introduces a listener question about whether the 37signals team uses telemetry or relies on intuition in their product development process. [21:14] - Jason discusses their approach to product development, emphasizing the importance of other factors extensive telemetry, and A/B testing. [22:12] - David shares the challenges they have encountered with telemetry and A/B testing. [26:11] - The value of speed, forward momentum and making decisions instead of stalling to find a perfect solution. | |||
| 18 Feb 2020 | Poetry at Work | 00:25:24 | |
Some of our most famous poets had day jobs: Robert Burns was a tax collector; William Carlos Williams was a doctor; Audre Lorde was a librarian and professor. Poetry has a lot to say about work and can serve as a meeting place, a provocative memo, or a break from the daily grind. In this episode, we hear from the creator of Poetry At Work Day and the editor of Poetry magazine about the power of verse in the workplace. And some Basecamp colleagues share poems that are meaningful to them. Show Notes Days of the Year - 00:08 The origins of "Be A Pineapple" - 00:55 Poetry At Work Day 2020 - 2:00 Take Your Poet to Work Day - 2:18 Laura Barkat's website | Twitter - 2:26 "The African Chief" by William Cullen Bryant - 2:45 Tweetspeak Poetry - 3:06 "Wasp" by Tony Hoagland - 4:12 Don Share | Poetry magazine - 5:04 "The Instruction Manual" by John Ashbery - 5:22 "Toads" by Philip Larkin - 6:22 Our recent episode about moving out of Basecamp's current office - 6:57 "My First Memory (of Librarians)" by Nikki Giovanni - 7:06 "Evangeline" by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow - 8:08 Tweetspeak Poetry's Daily Poem email - 11:58 The Poetry Foundation's Audio Poem of the Day - 12:05 The Slowdown podcast - 12:11 "On Clothes" by Kahlil Gibran - 13:15 "This Is Just To Say" by William Carlos Williams - 14:41 "This is just to say we have explained the plum jokes in your Twitter feed" (Vox) - 14:56 Lotus-eaters (Wikipedia) - 15:43 "The Lotos-eaters" by Alfred, Lord Tennyson - 15:59 "A Ritual to Read to Each Other" by William E. Stafford - 16:31 Kat Gaskin on Instagram - 22:02 "A Blessing For One Who Is Exhausted" by John O'Donohue - 22:19 | |||
| 30 Aug 2023 | Shape Up Principle: Writing a Pitch | 00:26:48 | |
If you've been following the Rework podcast, you're undoubtedly acquainted with the concept of Shape Up, a cornerstone of 37signals' approach to product development. In this episode, we delve into a core component of Shape Up: the delicate art of crafting a pitch. Join Rework host Kimberly Rhodes as she sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson for a conversation encompassing everything from the essence and purpose of a pitch to the step-by-step process of constructing a finely tuned pitch. Listen in as Jason and David walk listeners through Shape Up's five-point compass for an effective pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos, plus insight on how to use “tracer bullets” to manage the balance between scope and execution while avoiding the pitfalls along the way. Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces listeners to Shape Up, and the topic of the day: "writing a pitch" for product development. [00:34] - Jason shares what a pitch is and its purpose in product development. [02:16] - David emphasizes a crucial counterpoint to common practices at most organizations, highlighting the two common pitfalls. [04:05] - The key innovation of a Shape Up and the importance of avoiding extremes of over-specification or vague one-liners in your pitch. [05:44] - Jason shares who can write a pitch, and the distinction between throwing out ideas and formalized pitches. [07:47] - David introduces listeners to the concept of "framing" before pitching. [09:28] - Why it’s vital to distinguish between identifying a problem and crafting a pitch. [11:46] - Pitched solutions are more about direction than detailed execution—the true execution and implementation are the responsibility of the assigned team. [13:06] - Pitching is a powerful tool for attracting and nurturing independent decision-makers. [14:54] - The magic of deferring decisions until the implementation stage. [17:21] - Shape Up's five key details for making a pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos. [18:23] - Rabbit holes: tempting yet treacherous distractions that offer the illusion of progress. Why unveiling these traps early is essential. [20:08] - David shares an example of a recent project using a time zone auto completer. [21:15] - A "science project" - the macro version of a rabbit hole. [22:41] - How a "tracer bullet" or "traceable" helps the 37signals team understand a project's feasibility and complexity leading through a small investment of information gathering. [24:29] - Why a "tracer bullet is crucial for prioritizing projects, using an example of using a tracer to explore billing in other currencies and how it provided clarity on the project scope and timeline. [25:40] - Next week's episode of Rework will focus on the "Betting Table" and how the decision-making process unfolds to choose which pitches to work on. In the meantime, | |||
| 01 Feb 2023 | What’s in a Name | 00:28:05 | |
37signals has undergone some name changes since its inception over 20 years ago: starting as 37signals in 1999, then changing to Basecamp in 2014, before switching back to 37signals in 2022. Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to uncover the story behind the name 37signals, the reasoning behind the name changes, and the impact a name has on a business as we discuss what's in a name. Show Notes:
[00:46] - Jason connects extraterrestrial intelligence to the name 37signals. [01:56] - The out-of-the-park success that prompted a reassessment of the company's diversification. [04:07] - Do we really need all this? The stress (and necessary decisions) that grew out of success. [05:54] - How pride in their work led Jason and David to downsize their product line. [07:56] - Jason shares the behind-the-scenes story of the 2014 meeting that led to sun-setting their other products to focus on Basecamp (which is still in operation after 19 years). [10:04] - David shares the lightbulb moment he had during that meeting that prompted him to fully commit to changing the company's name and business model. [12:46] - Too many products, not enough progress. Getting everyone on the same page and figuring out the next steps. [14:27] - Same people, same location, NEW NAME (and domain). [17:16] - The difficult decision to stop running Highrise. [19:19] - Back to our roots in 2022. [21:37] - How having a unified brand name helps maintain a consistent tone and strengthens brand value. [23:15] - No need for a lengthy cost-benefit analysis—go with your gut. [24:18] - It's what we want to do, and that's enough. [25:03] - Two products under one umbrella, why returning to a multi-product company name made sense from a company standpoint. [25:37] - A brand by any other name—how much does your business name matter? [27:34] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show. Links and Resources: Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| 07 Jul 2020 | Manos: The Hands of Hey | 00:22:12 | |
Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, talks about how Hey's visual brand came to be. He discusses influences from Pixar to Charles and Ray Eames to The Raveonettes, and reflects on what it's like to work as a department of one on such an all-encompassing project. Show Notes Manos: The Hands of Fate - 00:04 Mystery Science Theater 3000 - 00:07 Our previous episode "Hey, What's Going On?" with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson giving an overview of Hey - 00:35 Our previous episode "Designing Hey" with Jonas Downey - 00:38 Our previous episode "An Email Account Is Born" with Merissa Dawson, on creating a demo account - 00:40 Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 00:58 Hey.com - 1:08 "Screen emails like you screen calls" - 2:59 "How it works" - 4:25 Toy Story of Terror! - 8:42 Procreate app - 9:27 Charles and Ray Eames - 16:22 A 2003 article about The Raveonettes albums that are written with just three chords and in one key - 21:12 | |||
| 21 Jan 2020 | You Never Forget George Pappageorge | 00:29:56 | |
Basecamp CEO Jason Fried is back in the studio with an update on the company's Chicago headquarters. Basecamp will be leaving its office this summer after a 10-year run, and Jason is looking at a number of options—including a space that will bring him full circle with one of his original 37signals partners. Show Notes "Office Space," our last episode about the fate of the Chicago office - 00:45 Brininstool+Lynch, the architects behind Basecamp's office - 6:54 Carlos Segura, who co-founded 37signals with Jason and Ernest Kim - 13:13 Coudal Partners is the Chicago design firm that makes Field Notes - 20:49 Chicago artist Nate Otto has worked with Basecamp for many years - 21:17 You never forget George Pappageorge - 21:33 | |||
| 06 Apr 2021 | Success is Surviving | 00:27:25 | |
When Robin Petravic and Cathy Bailey bought Heath Ceramics from the company's founders in 2003, they promised to keep the dinnerware maker and its manufacturing workforce in its home base of Sausalito, California. The pandemic provided an opportunity for Heath to recommit to this pledge and create a Living Wage Initiative, which in turn prompted a radical overhaul of the company's 401(k) program. Robin Petravic comes on Rework to talk about walking the walk on equity, resilience, and equipping Heath for the next 200 years. Robin and Cathy wrote about the Living Wage Initiative in Heath's January newsletter. Show Notes Heath Ceramics website | Instagram - 1:02 "Edith Heath: A Rebellion in Clay" (KCET, 2019) - 1:14 "Marin County's intensive effort drove down a COVID surge among Latino residents" (San Jose Mercury News) - 10:46 MIT Living Wage Calculator - 15:46 Eau de Space - 25:16 | |||
| 05 Nov 2019 | Rework Mailbag 5 | 00:16:34 | |
Simulacra and Simulation by Jean Baudrillard - 2:57 Max Temkin is a Chicagoan and a co-creator of Cards Against Humanity - 4:01 Little Free Library - 4:04 Maverick by Ricardo Semler - 4:48 Berkshire Hathaway shareholder letters by Warren Buffett - 5:27 Amazon's 2018 shareholder letter by Jeff Bezos - 5:38 Listen to our previous episodes about hiring a director of marketing, "In the Market for a Marketer" and "Meet Andy" - 13:02 | |||
| 19 Jul 2023 | Be Careful Who You Listen To | 00:24:17 | |
In today's fast-paced information-saturated world, advice is abundant, but it can be difficult to determine which sources are truly reliable. This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of navigating the ever-growing sea of advice and how to choose the right guidance for your journey. Listen in as they share their thoughts on the expiration date of advice, the dangers of following someone else's prescribed path, and the value of trusting your own instincts. Watch the Full Episode on Video Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and introduces listeners to the topic of finding reliable business advice in today’s digital age. [00:40] - Jason shares why he wrote Advice Expires and why he and David are the wrong people to ask for advice about starting a business. [02:14] - David shares how the Internet's craving for content leads to conflicting advice and the value of trusting your own instincts. [04:16] - Ignore more advice than you take: turning the tide on the trend of collecting mentors and seeking advice from multiple sources. [05:04] - The value of being outside the Silicon Valley bubble. [05:44] - The importance of cultivating originality. [06:15] - The danger of following everyone else's formula for success. [07:38] - How the "Pinterestization" of our culture is diluting originality in favor of popularity. [09:48] - The mystery behind success—Jason shares why you must be mindful of blindly emulating successful companies or individuals. [10:52] - David discusses the “Halo Effect” and how success in one aspect doesn't necessarily mean excellence in all areas. [11:41] - The “awesomeness tradeoff”: how the book “Blue Ocean Strategy” puts a method to the idea that you can't be awesome at all the things all the time. [13:12] - Kimberly raises the issue of self-proclaimed experts on the Internet. [14:13] - Why "Rework" was so successful. [14:50] - The importance of a select set of core ideas or key values for more effective decision-making in a sea of options. [16:13] -Trusting your gut and the pitfalls of seeking too much advice. [17:13] - Kimberly asks Jason and David about their approach to seeking advice and executing decisions. [17:35] - Jason shares his approach to seeking advice and what his method depends upon. [19:04] - David shares his preference for seeking guidance from "dead people." [20:03] - Reality as a mentor: the importance of contextualizing advice and learning through experimentation. [21:44] - The role of criticality when seeking advice. [22:08] - David shares why he continues to give advice and what people are really looking for. [22:34] - How the book "Maverick" by Ricardo Semler influenced the unconventional ideas and served as a benchmark for determining the level of "bat-shitness" in Jason and David’s decisions when they were starting out. [23:48] - Do you have qu | |||
| 21 Oct 2022 | Leaving the Cloud | 00:29:37 | |
David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of 37signals, and Eron Nicholson, Director of Operations, discuss why 37signals is making the move away from the cloud. Show Notes:
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| 07 Jan 2020 | Welcome Aboard | 00:38:59 | |
Welcome back! We're kicking off the new year with an episode full of practical advice about onboarding new employees. Ashley Bowe from Basecamp's customer support team talks about how they welcome and train new colleagues, and leadership coach Karen Catlin of Better Allies shares advice and examples of what companies can do to build more inclusive cultures. Show Notes Basecamp's Support team - 00:47 The Better Allies Approach to Hiring by Karen Catlin - 1:03 "Hire When It Hurts," our episode about hiring - 2:51 Entry in Basecamp's handbook about summer hours - 6:44 "I've never had a goal" (Signal v. Noise) - 7:36 Shaun talks about not eating lunch for a week in "Workaholics Aren't Heroes" - 9:03 Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson write about the joy of missing out in this Quartz essay - 14:39 Karen Catlin on Twitter | her website | Better Allies on Twitter | Better Allies website - 19:28 The Uber leather jacket debacle was chronicled by Susan J. Fowler in her now-famous essay about working at Uber - 22:43 | |||
| 29 Mar 2022 | Meetups and Miami | 00:16:01 | |
Basecamp was in Miami last week. I sat down with Jason and David to talk about why we were there, the importance of meeting colleagues in person, and investing in culture. | |||
| 20 Oct 2020 | Babies at Work | 00:24:28 | |
We talk to two very different small businesses about their Babies at Work programs, where new parents can have their infants with them at the office. With COVID sending so many office workers home—and pushing women out of the workforce altogether—acknowledging employees' whole selves is more important than ever. The companies in today's episode talk about how they've adapted their programs for a work-from-home-during-a-pandemic reality. Show Notes Leah Silber on Twitter - 00:05 Tilde - 00:58 Leah's 2017 essay, "Babies at Work: It's Weird that it's Weird" - 1:06 Our episode where Basecamp employees answered questions about working from home with kids - 2:36 "865,000 women left the workforce in September" (The 19th) - 2:48 “We’re just beginning to understand the extent of Covid-19’s feminist nightmare” (MSNBC) - 3:05 W.S. Badger Company - 3:43 Badger’s Babies at Work program - 4:09 "Parents Got More Time Off. Then the Backlash Started." (NYT) - 18:47 | |||
| 21 Jul 2020 | Q and HEY, Part 2 | 00:31:04 | |
Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a recent livestream session where they answered questions about HEY, the company's new email service. You can listen to Part 1 or watch the entire livestream on YouTube. Show Notes Q1: What's the timeframe on new features? - 00:38 HEY for Work - 00:50 Shape Up - 1:13 Apple vs. HEY - 4:33 It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy At Work - 6:07 Q2: How did you get HEY.com? - 7:12 "How we acquired HEY.com" (Signal v. Noise) - 7:30 Q3: When would you say you've taken on Gmail? - 9:53 Q4: What's the environmental impact of HEY? - 14:14 Data analyst Jane Yang's SvN post on carbon negativity - 15:45 Q5: It's been crazy at work for the last couple weeks. How do you get back to normal? - 15:52 Q6: Now that you have two products, are you concerned with context switching in the future? - 17:38 Q7: What's the problem with "inbox zero?" - 20:04 Q8: How could I possibly move to HEY with 16 years of emails in Gmail? - 24:10 HEY's guide for moving from Gmail - 24:10 | |||
| 08 Oct 2020 | Return to Mojito Island | 00:21:33 | |
We do a quick check-in with Basecamp CEO Jason Fried about what he's been up to since launching HEY in June. He talks about running the company as the pandemic stretches on, the importance of not making promises, and learning to swim. Show Notes "Greetings from Mojito Island," our check-in episode with DHH - 00:14 "Hey, What's Going On?", our episode launching HEY - 00:43 HEY for Work - 2:47 “Don’t Promise” (Signal v. Noise) - 3:51 “Something’s Broken,” our episode on recent downtime - 4:58 Coalition for App Fairness - 12:43 Learn more about our conflict with Apple in our episode “Two Weeks” - 14:51 Vox explainer on Apple, Epic Games, and Fortnite - 15:19 | |||
| 23 Apr 2020 | Going Remote: Kids at Home | 00:27:53 | |
Several of Basecamp's working parents talk about (not) getting things done with small children around, navigating responsibilities and feelings with partners, structuring the day, primal screaming, and more. You can also watch the full video replay of this Q&A session. Show Notes Going Remote series on YouTube - 00:10 Basecamp's Remote Resources page - 00:39 Question 1: If you’re home with kids under three, how do you work while they’re craving your attention? - 4:00 Going Remote episode about customer support - 6:25 Art for Kids Hub on YouTube - 15:31 Lunch Doodles with children's book author Mo Willems - 15:51 LeVar Burton does #LeVarBurtonReadsLive on his Twitter feed - 15:55 Question 2: How do you navigate tension between partners when one person bears more of the childcare responsibilities? - 19:22 Question 3: What morning habits do you have to keep yourself aligned? - 23:33 Basecamp on Twitter - 27:23 | |||
| 21 Apr 2020 | The Soul of an Entrepreneur | 00:27:19 | |
David Sax is the author of the new book The Soul of an Entrepreneur: Work and Life Beyond the Startup Myth. He comes on the show to debunk the Silicon Valley narrative that only a rarefied subset of people can succeed as founders, and shares examples from his book of business owners whose complex relationship with freedom, risk, and success offer a fuller picture of entrepreneurship. Read David's recent op-ed in the New York Times, "The Coronavirus Is Showing Us Which Entrepreneurs Matter." Show Notes David Sax's website | Twitter - 1:16 The Soul of an Entrepreneur: Work and Life Beyond the Startup Myth - 1:21 "At 21, Kylie Jenner Becomes The Youngest Self-Made Billionaire Ever" (Forbes) - 7:05 A 2017 Daily Beast profile of Kris Jenner's mother - 7:21 ESOPs - 17:16 Article by Daniela Papi-Thornton in the Stanford Social Innovation Review about "heropreneurship" - 20:54 Save the Deli by David Sax - 23:40 The Revenge of Analog by David Sax - 23:52 Maxim's May/June 2018 issue featuring Heidi Klum - 24:40 The Soul of an Entrepreneur on Bookshop.org - 26:15 | |||
| 21 Dec 2022 | Always Sound Like You | 00:26:16 | |
A small business has many benefits, like being able to move quickly, stay flexible and pivot when needed, something big businesses can't do as easily.
But, with the lure of getting bigger, sometimes small businesses fall into the trap of getting caught up in stiff language and legalese and ending up not sounding like themselves.
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss why small businesses should embrace the fact they can communicate without running every word through a legal or public relations department, as discussed in the chapter "Sound Like You" of their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:54] - Jason shares why they usually publish their writing directly — from mind to keyboard to the world—to get their ideas out there as clearly, and quickly as possible. [02:00] - Why running something you've written through a filter often produces something that sounds like legalese. [03:00] - David shares why writing what you want to read is vital (or don't share). [05:49] - Big company writing philosophy is often to ensure that your writing says as little as possible but reaches as many people as possible. It's why all big companies sound the same. [07:01] - David shares why you have to create your own interest by simply being interesting, by sharing something novel, of having a stand and a position on something in some regard that's also not just there. [07:52] - The smaller your company, the bigger risk you can (and should) take with your writing. [09:05] - Jason shares some dos (and don'ts) for writing for your small business. [12:12] - David explains why developing your writing voice is essential and how you can do it in relative obscurity if you are a small company. [14:49] - How to become an overnight writing sensation (after just ten years of practice). [15:38] - When you SHOULD go through legal and PR before publishing your writing. [18:35] - "We have expertise in authentically stating our observations and opinions about the business world, how to run a company, and how to develop good software—so that's what we do." [19:22] - "Everything is interesting if you peel back the layers far enough." [20:20] - Why it's essential to measure your writing for the internet as a body of work, not on a piece-by-piece basis. [22:03] - The unobtainable formula for creating a hit. [22:57] - The no-traction way to gain traction with your writing. [23:42] - Why you should avoid looking at the stats of how many people are reading your writing. [25:25] - If you have a specific question for Jason or David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources: Hey World| Jason Fried 37signals on YouTube | |||
| 24 May 2022 | Launch Now | 00:23:28 | |
If you had to launch your thing in just two weeks what would you cut out? Put off anything you don't absolutely need for launch. You can always build that stuff later when you have more information. It's best to just get it out there! Show Notes
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| 26 Jul 2023 | The Google Graveyard | 00:26:11 | |
Unlike some tech giants that have notoriously pulled the plug on beloved products (remember Google's sudden discontinuation of Google Reader?), 37signals takes a vastly different approach with their pledge to support ALL of their products for the life of the internet. This week host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to explore the importance of longevity and trust in the SaaS industry. Drawing parallels to iconic brands like Porsche and Rolex, Jason and David take a deep dive into the challenges of product discontinuation and its impact on loyal customers. From Ta-da List to Basecamp, listen in as they reveal the principles that drive their support decisions and why longevity matters when building a brand that customers will rely on for decades. Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the podcast and the topic of 37signals' core principle to maintain its products until the end of the internet. [00:36] - David discusses the risk of relying on big companies for software services, sharing the recent example of Google killing off its domain selling service. [02:06] - David explains why Google tends to abandon services leaving users to deal with the aftermath. [03:50] - How to become a legacy brand—like Porsche. [05:20] - David shares 37signal's philosophy to keep products running until the end of the internet (example: 17 years of maintaining Ta-da List). [06:08] - Short-term profitability vs. long-term commitment to customers: The moral obligation (and trade-off) of maintaining legacy products. [08:07] - Kimberly draws a parallel between the changing ownership of mortgages and software services. [08:58] - Brand building through commitment and longevity. [10:05] - Jason shares how 37signals prioritizes their commitment to customers with their core apps. [12:16] - The challenge of balancing the desires of existing customers with the need to appeal to new customers. [15:47] - The most profitable product in the 37signals portfolio. [17:37] - Kimberly asks about the decision-making process between creating new versions of Basecamp versus adding features to the existing ones. [18:02] - Some updates are like facelifts—others involve fundamental changes. [20:20] - The costs involved in maintaining apps like Ta-da List. [21:35] - David highlights the BIG return on investment in brand power that comes with the commitment to maintaining products. [23:12] - How the murder of Google Reader still impacts users' trust in new Google products a decade later. [24:06] - The high failure rate of venture-backed companies. [23:48] - Did you know full video of episodes of Rework are available? Check out our YouTube channel or find us on Twitter. As always, if you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. And don’t forget you can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Links and Resources:
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| 29 Oct 2019 | A Hosty Retreat | 01:04:34 | |
Art19 - 1:02 The Distance - 1:09 Tweet from Kevin Finn to DHH / "Heal the Internet" - 1:15 Buzzsprout - 1:21 Video about Art19's new ad technology - 1:28 DHH's tweet about leaving Art19 ASAP - 3:23 Transistor - 3:52 Lex Friedman - 4:16 "Breaking: Two Top Stitcher Executives leave for Art19" (Hot Pod) - 10:58 California Consumer Privacy Act (Wikipedia) - 23:20 Justin Jackson - 40:24 Jon Buda - 40:34 The Good News Podcast, a show by Cards Against Humanity - 40:45 "Crafting Radio's Driveway Moments" (NPR) - 42:26 Sleep With Me podcast - 56:38 Justin Jackson's post on getting to $30K - 58:21 DHH's personal website - 1:02:27 | |||
| 20 Sep 2022 | Quick Wins | 00:22:31 | |
Building and maintaining momentum is one of the most underrated things you can do when building products. Keep moving forward by shipping work early and often. The longer something takes, the less likely it is you'll finish it. At 37signals, we work in six-week cycles, but even six weeks is a long time, so pepper in some easy, quick wins to keep that momentum going. Show Notes
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| 24 Mar 2020 | The Distance: Steeped In History | 00:16:42 | |
Nom Wah Tea Parlor is New York Chinatown’s oldest dim sum restaurant. For decades, it served Cantonese dumplings and rolls in the traditional way, from trolleys pushed around the restaurant. When Wilson Tang took over Nom Wah in 2011, he switched from trolleys to menus with pictures and started serving dim sum through dinner. He also opened new locations that broadened Nom Wah’s repertoire beyond dim sum. These were big changes for a restaurant that opened in 1920, but Wilson saw them as measures to secure Nom Wah’s future for its next century in business. This episode first aired on The Distance in May 2017. Nom Wah has reduced operations due to COVID-19, but you can support the restaurant by purchasing merchandise: https://nomwah.com/shop/. | |||
| 20 Apr 2021 | You Had Me At Hylo | 00:24:44 | |
Tibet Sprague is a "communitarian technologist" with a vision for building companies and communities outside of investor-driven, for-profit systems. His current project is Hylo, an online platform for collaboration that's governed by its users. Show Notes "Truss the Process" and "Success is Surviving," our episodes on pay equity - 00:18 "Coops: The Next Generation" and "Exit to Community," our episodes about cooperatives - 00:21 Hylo - 00:29 Tibet Sprague on Twitter - 1:08 NRG acquired One Block Off the Grid (renamed Pure Energies Group) in 2014 - 4:10 Holo - 7:48 Announcement about Holo giving Hylo to Terran Collective - 9:08 Sociocracy for All - 17:30 "Mass vaccination site in Gary draws Chicago-area residents" (Chicago Tribune) - 24:32 "Gary, Indiana" from The Music Man - 24:42 Tibet's List of Resources Prosocial More books, articles, and resources can be found on Terran Collective's website. | |||
| 19 Apr 2023 | Listener Questions Part 3 | 00:16:36 | |
On the previous episode of the Rework podcast, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, joined host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions and share their insights on various topics such as project ownership, attracting talent, and building a successful team. This week, they return to address one question that deserved its own episode. Tune in as they reflect on a significant reset that occurred at 37signals in 2021 when many people left the company simultaneously due to a "no politics on work forums" stance. They discuss how they dealt with the high turnover rate and how that pivotal moment became the catalyst that caused them to reassess and make necessary changes to their company culture. Plus, what they learned about the importance of making bold moves to drive progress and overcome stagnation. Show Notes:
[00:15] - Kimberly shares a listener question from a cardiac surgeon, Jeffrey Gibson, about the employee resignations at 37signals in 2021 when they implemented a "no politics on work forums" policy and asks for an update about how the policy is working. [01:24] - David discusses the importance of time in evaluating a decision and his pride in the decision. He highlights the positive outcomes that have resulted from it. [03:27] - David talks about renegotiating the separation between work and home and how this decision has helped to clarify the company's focus and values. [05:51] - The media gets involved: David shares his experience with media reports and how it has changed his perspective on them. [06:31] - "My personal sense is that the media, in general, has been covering itself in glory for a bit now, not just on that point, but on a lot of points." - David Heinemeier Hansson [07:23] - One of the most important and difficult decisions they have made as a company (and the positive outcomes for their workplace culture). [10:06] - A few regrets: Jason shares that the decision-making process during that time taught him to be careful about making other decisions in a fog and encourages others to project ahead and look back before making a decision. [11:38] - Kimberly asks if turnover allowed them a fresh start with changing the company culture. [12:00] - A mass exodus and a major reset. [13:22] - An opportunity to consider what matters—David explains how going through something challenging offers the chance to reassess your life, what you stand for, and where you're going. [14:53] - David discusses how difficult it is to ask big questions in daily life and how companies go through a similar process of reassessing what they want to be, what they stand for, and where they want to go. [15:38] - David reflects on the fruits of the company's efforts. [16:11] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find us on Twitter. Links and Resources: Listener Questions / AMA | REWORK Listener Questions Part 2 | REWORK Changes at Basecamp by Jason Fried (April 2021) Basecamp's new etiquette regarding societal politics at work by David Heinemeier H | |||
| 06 Sep 2023 | Shape Up Principle: The Betting Table | 00:25:15 | |
Picture this: a dimly lit room where velvet-robed figures gather in secret to make decisions of paramount importance as the fate of the pitches for the next product development cycle hangs in the balance. The "betting table” – where the formalized pitches for each six-week work cycle are selected – might seem mysterious but we're about to unravel its secrets. Listen in as host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to explore the unique inner workings of the "betting table" and how this process shapes each product development cycle. Tune in to discover 37signals' approach to selecting and refining projects at the "betting table." Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Today on the podcast, the discussion focuses on the betting table and how the decisions are made about which pitches are selected and which projects to schedule. [00:42] - Jason shares what the betting table is. [02:26] - The betting table process: refining pitches into a kickoff document. [03:17] - David shares the background behind the betting table and how it has evolved. [05:51] - The betting table: passionately advocating for different views, with one person ultimately making the decision. [06:51] - Ensuring that resource allocation decisions are made efficiently while avoiding committee-driven decision-making. [08:56] - Decisions made at the betting table can sometimes be passed to others who are more passionate or informed about a particular project. [10:04] - It's all about timing—unselected pitches don't automatically get another chance in the next cycle, but if they are relevant, they might. [11:33] - David shares why Shape Up is such a powerful way of working and how the betting table process provides multiple opportunities to influence product direction. [14:38] - Jason shares how the assignment of team members works during the betting table to ensure that the available resources match the selected projects. [15:49] - David shares the background behind aligning pitch budgets with available resources and calendars during the betting table. [19:55] - Why so much of the betting table process is asynchronous and done via written communication, [22:54] - When calls might need to happen during the betting table process. [23:57] - For more background on how 37signals manages product development, get your free copy of the book Shape Up. It is available here. [24:13] - Don't forget you can still enter #TheUnderdogChallenge by sharing the story of your scrappy team on the 37signals LinkedIn post here for a chance to be featured on a future episode of Rework. The deadline to enter is September 15. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850. Links and Resources: | |||
| 09 Nov 2021 | Start Making Something (Season 2) | 00:23:34 | |
This week Jason and David discuss the essay titled "Start Making Something." It's only when you start building something the real insights come. Until then, all you have is just an idea. We also talk about Stanley Kubrick films and Jason introduces groundbreaking concepts like perforated pizza and "The Mysterious Cat." Show Notes
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| 14 Dec 2021 | You Need Less Than You Think (Season 2) | 00:27:28 | |
Before you start your great new business you'll NEED to hire some people, raise some money, rent an office, buy some ads, etc. etc. OF COURSE YOU DON'T. These are all just the trappings entrepreneurs tell themselves they need, when in reality, all you need is to start making something. Show Notes
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| 18 Aug 2020 | Rerun - Nevermore, Amazon | 00:25:59 | |
In the spring of 2019, Danny Caine, the owner of the Raven Book Store in Lawrence, Kansas, overheard a customer saying she could buy a new hardcover online for $15. Danny took to Twitter to explain the economics of independent bookstores and the thread went viral, putting the 32-year-old small business in the national spotlight. Danny comes on Rework to talk about why his activism and outspoken stance against Amazon haven’t just felt right, but been good for business too. | |||
| 28 Jun 2023 | When to Jump into AI | 00:16:21 | |
When should small business owners start paying attention to AI? Is immediate action necessary, or are we already behind? In today's episode, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the landscape of AI and its implications for businesses. From the impact on small business owners to the ever-present question of falling behind, David and Jason explore the potentials and limitations of AI and its present and future impact on how we use technology. Tune in to learn how Jason and David are currently using AI and the importance of curiosity and safety when implementing AI tools in your business. Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of AI and its relevance to small business owners. [00:41] - Jason emphasizes curiosity over fear and reassures listeners that they are not falling behind in the world of AI. [01:26] - David acknowledges the hype and FOMO surrounding AI but highlights how easy it is to get started. [02:00] - The incredible potential and rapid evolution of AI. [03:15] - Jump in and explore AI without feeling left behind. [04:10] - The key to using AI effectively. [05:07] - The fast rate of change means there’s a lot we don’t know. [06:00] - “If you don't understand what's being produced, you'll hit the wall relatively quickly in terms of what you can do with it.” [06:46] - How often do you get to live during a time of this much uncertainty? Embrace it, but … [07:47] - AI is a big parlor trick right now. Jason shares why his best advice is to have fun with AI and some ways he's used it. [09:14] - Will Jason and David be bringing AI into 37signals? [09:57 ] - Beyond the smartphone—A potential shift in how we interact with technology. [10:55 ] - Using three paragraphs when two lines will do…the awful business language verbose bullshit AI is currently churning out is a hilarious critique of corporate business-speak. [13:32 ] - How can businesses safely implement AI tools right now? [13:49 ] - "It's not like just going to a genie in the cloud." Why it's essential to be mindful of your personal data when using AI. [15:48 ] - The REWORK podcast is now on YouTube. Subscribe here. “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us to have your question answered on an upcoming episode. Links and Resources: From Jason’s HEY World: Two Visions of the Future From Jason’s HEY World: You can learn AI later Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us. Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com | |||
| 13 Oct 2020 | Privacy Scavenger Hunt | 00:31:05 | |
Imagine a corporate privacy policy on a website that was actually comprehensible and written by and for human beings. We talk to companies who have done just this, and what it means to build a business that has respect for privacy baked in from the outset. We also talk to a researcher who's witnessed the difficulty of navigating online privacy settings. Show Notes Mark Asquith's website | Twitter | Instagram - 00:21 Captivate.fm, part of Rebel Base Media - 00:28 Captivate’s privacy policy - 1:25 Hana Habib's website - 2:57 GDPR - 3:16 CCPA - 3:18 The study on privacy usability that Hana and her team published (PDF) - 3:46 Kaitlin Maud on Twitter | Instagram - 6:13 Rain or Shine Recruiting - 6:14 Rain or Shine Recruiting’s privacy policy - 11:50 Ryan Jones on Twitter - 13:16 Flighty - 13:18 Flighty’s privacy policy - 17:15 “A Hosty Retreat,” our episode about switching podcast hosts over privacy concerns -23:00 "Overcast's latest beta update tells listeners which podcasts are tracking them" (The Verge) - 23:06 Full Transparency Mode - 23:23 Transistor - 29:50 | |||
| 07 Dec 2022 | Your Estimates Suck | 00:24:20 | |
"Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted," - David Heinemeier Hansson
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, discuss their chapter in Rework on why estimating is not the road to completing projects and what has helped them get things done in their business for over twenty years.
Show Notes:
[00:42] - David shares why it's time to accept that we're awful at estimating. [03:27] - Why estimating is 'an amazing example of the human optimism to overcome its own fundamental flaws in a way that's just wholesomely unrealistic.' [04:48] - What 37signals does instead of estimating as relayed in Shape Up. [05:49] - Jason asks how much you are willing to spend (or lose) in gambling (and software development projects). [08:13] - The worst situation to be in for rational decision-making. [09:00] - Why it's vital to stick to your limits. [10:29] - "Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted as a barrier for our software development process over all these years." [12:47] - In software development, no one—from the owner of the company to the end user—gets everything they want; staying within your parameters is about trading concessions. [14:15] - You need to keep the engine moving because software development is like baking bread on an industrial scale. [16:19] - You produce what you practice. [16:57] - You don't cut corners or quality, you cut scope, and if you can't, you scrap the project. [18:15] - Losing the right things prevents you from missing out on other opportunities. [19:48] - Forecasting the next ten years, six weeks at a time. [20:33] - Shortening planning cycles improves your ability to determine your next steps with more accurate information. [21:15] - 'We're making a ton of progress with a small team with a product that's been around for 18 years - so it works!' [23:21] - Why keep doing things that don't work?
Links and Resources: Shape Up | |||
| 14 Apr 2020 | Work Out From Home | 00:24:38 | |
Fitness studios, like many other businesses, had to scramble to change over from in-person to virtual operations almost overnight. In this episode, three business owners in the fitness and wellness industry share their stories of how they've pivoted and how they're continuing to look after their communities' well-being during a difficult time. Note: After we wrapped editing on this episode, Haji Healing Salon launched two support groups that meet weekly with a clinical psychologist. If you're interested in signing up, click on "Healing Services" on Haji's website. Show Notes Arts + Public Life residency program at the University of Chicago - 3:14 Haji Healing Salon website | Instagram - 3:19 "Haji Healing Salon Aims to be 'Oasis and Sanctuary' On Bustling 79th Street in Chatham" (Block Club Chicago) - 4:04 Philly Dance Fitness website | Livestream - 7:22 Take It Off Broadway - 8:43 StreamingVideoProvider - 11:10 Punchpass website - 14:21 Punchpass webinar on getting classes online - 17:04 Hot Yoga Burlington - 18:30 "Zoom Rushes to Improve Privacy for Consumers Flooding Its Service" (New York Times) - 23:06 | |||
| 14 Jan 2020 | Less Business, More d20s | 00:29:22 | |
Matthew Vincent, a member of Basecamp's Ops team, spoke at Nomad City 2019 about life as a remote worker. Close your eyes and pretend you're in the Canary Islands as you listen to this audio version of Matthew's talk. Show Notes Matthew Vincent's Nomad City speaker bio - 00:30 Nomad City - 00:34 d20 System (Wikipedia) - 1:23 "Thirteen Months of Working, Sleeping, and Eating at the Googleplex" (Bloomberg Businessweek, July 2015) - 2:21 "Which Googler holds the record for living at Google HQ?" (Quora) - 2:23 Ben Discoe's LinkedIn - 3:06 Entry in Basecamp's handbook about the Continuing Education Allowance - 7:18 The tweet that Matthew references - 9:00 Automatic Check-ins - 14:00 Basecamp's Employee Handbook - 21:36 Shape Up by Ryan Singer, Basecamp's guide to product development - 21:48 All of Basecamp's books - 22:03 Videos for Nomad City 2019 talks - 28:45 | |||
| 03 Nov 2020 | Create Your Own Serendipity | 00:32:02 | |
More than ever, the tech industry is re-thinking how work gets done and how great ideas come to light when people are no longer linked by their physical location. In this episode, we have frank but hopeful conversations with Deldelp Medina of Black & Brown Founders and Michael Berhane of People Of Color In Tech. They talk about the ongoing work of building intentional communities in tech and modeling what it means to truly trust and support each other. Show Notes "Duty Calls," the famous XKCD comic - 00:18 "How Remote Work Could Destroy Silicon Valley" (Marker) — 00:40 "'Rich people leave, artists and queerdos return': is San Francisco's tech exodus real or a fantasy?" (The Guardian) - 1:09 Deldelp Medina on LinkedIn | Twitter - 2:07 Black & Brown Founders website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:10 History Channel article on the 1978 murders of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk - 2:41 PBS article on Jim Jones and The Peoples Temple in Guyana - 2:46 Ruth Asawa - 5:15 BMUG (Berkeley Macintosh Users Group) - 6:34 Michael Berhane on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram - 11:26 POCIT (People Of Color In Tech) website | Twitter | Instagram - 11:29 POCIT newsletter - 17:39 Techish podcast - 17:50 Techish co-host Abadesi Osunsade - 17:58 The Lean Startup - 20:20 Aniyia Williams - 25:51 | |||
| 12 Jul 2023 | Leaving the Cloud: The Finale | 00:29:08 | |
You’ve no doubt heard the 37signals team talking about leaving the cloud. Well, now the transition is complete! In this episode of Rework, 37signals co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the unexpected speed of the move, the decisions, the hurdles they faced, and the behind the scenes of the meticulous process of moving their major applications, including those that had never before been run outside the cloud. Tune in as they share the secrets behind their successful approach and the unexpected trick that allowed them to tackle individual components without risking major disruptions. Plus, they address questions from listeners, covering topics such as backups, physical resets, and the future of their infrastructure. Listen in for an eye-opening conversation that challenges the prevailing narratives of the cloud era and delves into the untapped potential of running your own infrastructure. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly sits down with 37signals co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson, and director of operations, Eron Nicholson to discuss 37signals move away from the cloud. [00:39] - David shares their surprise at the quick completion of the move and the challenges they faced in planning and technology decisions. [01:26] - Out in six months: how the team, led by Eron, tackled the various aspects such as logging, failover, and managing two data centers while resolving numerous open questions along the way. [03:06] - An opportunity to question existing principles and processes, resulting in a novel approach. It felt like a product launch! [05:04] - Eron reflects on the accelerated timeline and how the entire ops and SIP team worked towards the same goal. [06:32] - How the criticality ladder approach allowed for smoother progress to more complex applications like Basecamp Classic. [08:47] - Eron explains the logistics and the unexpected trick that helped the team tackle individual components without risking significant disruptions. [10:52] - Moving HEY, 37signals most critical and complex app, that had never before been run outside the cloud. [11:23] - Kimberly opens the floor to a few user questions from Twitter, the first one from Pedro: "Did your company buy or already own your own data centers, or are you renting space in existing data centers? Is that even an option?" [11:50] - Running your own data center requires a gargantuan scale and enormous investment, but renting space in data centers makes it easy and capital-efficient. [14:29] - Amnesia of the pre-cloud era: using data centers is more accessible than most people think. [15:38] - Eron shares how to make the data centers work for you and your company. [16:39] - Kimberly shares a question from Moshi on Twitter: "Congrats on the move. Before deciding to move, did you try negotiating with any of the large clouds?" [16:54] - David shares their unique advantage in cloud pricing negotiations. [19:46] - Why the cloud math doesn't work: the fundamental misalignment (and huge surprise costs) that led 37signals to leave the cloud and how running your own infrastructure makes those financial surprises disappear. [21:11] - Kimberly shares a telling comment made by someone on David’s Twitter account. [22:26] - How the cloud marketing campaign has successfully convinced people they're dumber than they really are. [24:49] - "If you possess the know-how and resources, it absolutely makes sense to manage your own infrastructure." Eron shares the advantage that made the transition less daunting. [25:32] - Ki | |||
| 09 Apr 2020 | Going Remote: Design | 00:25:55 | |
We're starting a new series of bonus episodes called Going Remote. We'll have different Basecampers answer questions about how they do their work remotely. In this first episode, design lead Jonas Downey talks about how he and his team collaborate with each other, give feedback, and communicate with their developer colleagues. These episodes are adapted from an ongoing series of livestreamed Q&As, which you can find in their entirety on Basecamp's YouTube channel. Show Notes Video of Jonas' Q&A | YouTube playlist of all Q&As - 00:33 Jonas Downey on Twitter - 00:39 Question #1: I’m planning on doing design thinking sessions for groups. How should I channel the team aspect in a virtual call with 20 to 30 people? - 4:25 Question #2: What tools do you use to replace whiteboarding and Post-It sessions? - 6:33 Reflector app - 7:31 Question #3: It seems like most communication you do runs through Basecamp. How do you communicate the intricacies of designs to engineers, and what’s your workflow? - 8:51 Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's live walkthrough of the company's Basecamp account - 8:54 Question #4: Do you use version control tools like Abstract? - 12:46 Question #5: In the meeting-averse culture of Basecamp, how does design work get reviewed and approved? - 16:23 Question #6: Do you use any design tools, or do you design in the browser? - 17:44 Question #7: Is it required at Basecamp for a designer to know how to code? - 18:48 Question #8: How many designers do you have at Basecamp? - 20:21 Question #9: I'm interested in the dynamic between designers and product managers. Do you do project management yourself using tools like Jira or Trello? - 21:07 Question #10: How do you balance between designer and manager roles? - 23:00 Basecamp on Twitter - 25:35 | |||
| 02 Jun 2020 | The Bookshop Around the Corner | 00:30:58 | |
Andy Hunter launched Bookshop.org in January as a platform to help independent bookstores take and fulfill online orders. Shortly afterward, the pandemic forced small businesses to close their physical doors and Bookshop.org found itself trying to manage three years of growth in three months. Andy comes on the show for a deep dive into how his business works, monopoly power in the book industry, and what steps Bookshop is taking to make sure growth and success don't compromise their mission. Show Notes Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer - 1:27 "Nevermore, Amazon," our episode about The Raven Book Store - 2:06 Andy Hunter on Twitter - 2:44 Bookshop website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:44 Catapult | Counterpoint | Soft Skull Press - 3:28 Lit Hub - 3:32 Ingram - 6:21 Certified B Corporation - 9:25 Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C. - 10:18 Tattered Cover Book Store in Denver, CO - 10:19 Powell’s Books in Portland, OR - 10:20 IndieBound - 13:30 Morgan Entrekin - 15:34
Libro.fm - 19:37 Hummingbird Digital Media - 20:16 "Baker & Taylor to Drop Wholesale Book Distribution to Retailers" - 24:56 BuzzFeed article about GrubHub collecting fees from restaurants even when customers call to place orders - 26:05 Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins - 30:23 Astounding by Alec Nevala-Lee (Wailin's husband) - 30:45 | |||
| 10 Nov 2020 | Take Some Time Off (We Mean It!) | 00:27:26 | |
Unlimited paid time off is a common perk in the tech industry, but as one company discovered, an open-ended vacation policy led to confusion and even burnout. Dan Jimenez of Chatbooks comes on Rework to talk about how they shifted from unlimited to mandatory PTO, and how they're recalibrating expectations for work, productivity, and rest during a turbulent time. Show Notes "How the 'Knives Out' Costume Designer Chose Chris Evans' Perfect Sweater" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 1:50 "27 Days in Tokyo Bay: What Happened on the Diamond Princess" (Wired) - 2:16 Wailin and Shaun discussed how they spent their sabbaticals in "The Bean Machine" - 2:51 Basecamp's PTO policy - 3:11 We addressed our PTO policy change in "It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 1" and "Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 2" - 3:25 Dan Jimenez on LinkedIn | Twitter - 3:42 Chatbooks - 3:45 Nate Quigley, CEO of Chatbooks - 5:49 Rachel Hofstetter, CMO at Chatbooks - 18:37 Dan Jimenez's Twitter thread about changing Chatbooks' PTO policy - 19:36 "What is Hygge?" - 23:35 John Wick - 24:18 Boy Smells - 24:35 literary candles from Hearth & Hammer - 24:39 We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap and Prayers" - 24:42 A24 x Joya film genre candles - 24:47 Bath & Body Works white pumpkin candle - 26:42 Shaun gets his togarashi from Third Street Market in Whitefish, Montana - 27:07 | |||
| 15 Mar 2022 | Making the Call is Making Progress | 00:24:54 | |
It's so easy to punt on something; to say, "let's wait until we have enough information to make the perfect decision." Perfect decisions don't exist, putting things off makes them pile up, and you'll end up getting absolutely nowhere. Very few decisions are set in stone. So, make calls as quickly as possible. Don't wait around for the perfect answer. Show Notes
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| 22 Nov 2019 | BONUS - Basecamp: This Time It's Personal | 00:27:46 | |
Basecamp has a long history of experimenting with "freemium" models and recently launched its most generous free plan yet: Basecamp Personal. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about the debate and data analysis that went into the launch, what makes this a little scary, and why it's healthy for a business to experiment. Show Notes "Launch: Basecamp Gets Personal" (Signal v. Noise) - 00:13 37signals' 2004 announcement about the launch of Basecamp - 1:44 Basecamp's announcement about closing Backpack to new signups - 2:18 "Launch: Basecamp 3" (Signal v. Noise) - 2:31 Our episode about finding an SEO consultant - 7:10 Our episode introducing Basecamp's new head of marketing - 7:18 Basecamp's ace Support team - 23:46 Our episode about the Apple Card controversy and algorithmic bias - 25:06 Basecamp Personal on Product Hunt - 26:10 Basecamp's "Until the End of the Internet" policy - 26:53 | |||
| 13 Sep 2022 | Good Enough is Fine | 00:26:03 | |
At 37signals, we tend to solve problems by finding a "judo solution." The simplest, easiest, cheapest solution that gets you 90% of the way there. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be great. It just has to be good enough. Part of this is reframing and simplifying the problem itself. And, remember, you can always turn "good enough" into "great" later. Show Notes
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| 04 Feb 2020 | The Road Out Of Startupland | 00:35:50 | |
Sahil Lavingia once believed his startup was headed for unicorn status, but his journey through Silicon Valley—the viral launch on Hacker News, $8 million in venture capital, the glowing press—led to a very different outcome. In this episode, Sahil reflects on life outside the literal and figurative confines of Silicon Valley, and the satisfaction he gets from building a sustainable business. Show Notes "Is Venture Capital Worth the Risk?" (The New Yorker) - 00:51 "The deal Jeff Bezos got on Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise) - 1:55 Sahil Lavingia on Twitter | Gumroad - 2:05 Vibram shoes - 6:00 Jon Wheatley founded DailyBooth, a YCombinator company - 7:22 "Pinterest Has Already Pinned Down $10M At A $40M Valuation" (TechCrunch) - 7:31 Bebo is a now-defunct social networking company - 7:54 "SoftBank's Vision Fund Is a Graveyard of Broken Tech Startups" (Vice) - 9:47 "Gumroad Gets $7 Million Series A From Kleiner Perkins For Indie E-Payment Platform" (TechCrunch) - 11:43 Basecamp Personal - 15:45 Her (film) on Wikipedia - 21:01 The 4-Hour Workweek - 29:10 Sahil's big essay on his experience, "Reflecting on My Failure to Build a Billion-Dollar Company" (Medium) - 32:58 | |||
| 06 Oct 2020 | Greetings from Mojito Island | 00:28:17 | |
Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson has been on a not-totally-intended sabbatical from both work and Twitter, and on an entirely intended break from living in the U.S. He checks in from Europe to talk about how he's managing his time off as the boss, and what developments back at Basecamp briefly pulled him back into work. Show Notes “Two Weeks,“ our episode about the launch of HEY - 5:00 Basecamp’s sabbatical policy - 5:23 HEY for Work - 8:23 HEY'S Paper Trail feature - 8:38 The School of Life - 9:27 It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy At Work by Jason Fried and DHH - 13:45 "Take A Break," our episode on sabbaticals - 15:05 “Something’s Broken,” our episode about recent outages - 15:58 "All Bugs are Not Created Equal" from Getting Real - 21:04 | |||
| 14 Sep 2021 | Ignore the Real World | 00:23:51 | |
We continue our revisit of Rework with the essay, "Ignore the Real World." Topics include new ideas failing, risk avoidance, and Marvel movies. Show Notes
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| 27 Oct 2020 | Better Product with Adam Stoddard | 00:26:29 | |
Better Product is a podcast by Innovatemap, a digital product agency. We are playing their episode featuring Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, who joins them to talk about Basecamp's design philosophy and the thought process behind the look of HEY.com. Show Notes Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:04 Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson discussed Superhuman in a previous Rework episode - 12:20 "Superhuman is Spying on You" by Mike Davidson - 13:23 HEY's pixel tracker blocking feature - 13:33 | |||
| 01 Sep 2020 | Apps Without Code | 00:26:10 | |
We're back from our August hiatus! To kick things off, we have a conversation with Tara Reed, the CEO of Apps Without Code. She started an online art advising business without knowing how to code, and that early success led to an entire company and educational program that teaches others how to do the same. Tara talks about her career, the tools she uses, and why she hates the term "non-technical founder." Show Notes Selling Sunset on Netflix - 00:42 The Hills - 00:54 A BuzzFeed News profile of the reality show producer behind Selling Sunset and The Hills - 1:04 Columbo - 1:30 IMDb TV - 1:40 Wailin discusses her idea for an app to help you choose a streaming provider at the end of this episode - 1:56 Tara Reed on Twitter | LinkedIn - 2:36 Apps Without Code - 2:41 Google Offers - 4:06 "Sources: Groupon rejects Google's $5 billion offer" (story co-written by Wailin in the Chicago Tribune, 2010) - 4:10 Kollecto - 5:05 Strikingly - 6:57 Kollecto on Product Hunt - 8:02 Kollecto on BetaList - 8:03 SurveyGizmo - 9:40 500 Startups - 9:52 Bubble - 11:25 Zapier - 13:13 Tara's TEDx Detroit talk - 17:07 The apps Tara teaches are: Glide | Mighty Networks | Sharetribe | Thinkific | CloudMatch - 17:48 Spark AR - 21:05 Apps Without Code's free class | bootcamp - 24:36 Jek Porkins - 25:23 Wedge Antilles - 25:35 | |||
| 23 Nov 2021 | Draw a Line in the Sand | 00:28:33 | |
Whenever you start something, especially a business it's important to know why you're doing what you're doing. Having strong opinions, standing for something, can help tremendously when it comes to making crucial decisions and creating super-fans. Show Notes
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| 22 Dec 2020 | Send A Little Delight | 00:30:14 | |
Comfort and joy were in short supply this year, but we're doing our best to end 2020 on a cozy note. Merissa of Basecamp support talks about surprising customers with gifts throughout the year, whether it's to thank them for their fandom or apologize for a disappointing experience. Then Wailin shares a few items from her 2020 gift guide, and Joan of Basecamp customer support reviews a scented candle. Wishing all of our listeners a restful holiday season, and we'll see you in 2021! Show Notes Fabric in Flames - 00:35 love languages - 3:15 Basecamp merch store - 6:15 Elami - 10:42 Voluspa - 14:29 Packed With Purpose - 15:32 Gift Boss - 15:58 Greetabl - 16:15 Barefoot Dreams blankets - 17:13 Minky Couture blankets - 17:19 Oprah's Favorite Things - 17:35 Barefoot Dreams CozyChic Lite Circle Cardigan - 19:05 Glerups slippers - 19:28 Solo Stove - 20:06 Corksicle Classic stemless wine tumbler - 20:25 Parks Project x Rumpl sherpa blanket - 20:46 Spindrift subscription - 21:25 Mason Cash cane mixing bowls - 21:46 Neogen A-Clear Soothing Clear Spot Patch - 23:06 Ello Tidal 20-ounce Glass Tumbler with Lid - 23:58 Joan Stewart on Twitter - 24:35 Shaun reviewed the Boy Smells "Polyamberous" candle in our previous episode - 24:48 Kacey Musgraves "Slow Burn" collection - 25:53 IKEA's special edition candles - 26:18 "Amber" by 311 - 27:45 | |||
| 20 Mar 2020 | Remote Work Q&A, Part 1 | 00:52:52 | |
Earlier this week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a live Q&A about remote work. We're splitting the session into two episodes. Part 1 covers questions about video calls, brainstorming, setting priorities, and good management during a time of stressful transition. If you'd like to watch the Q&A session in its entirety, you can do that on Periscope. You can also check out Basecamp's Guide to Internal Communication. Show Notes Jason and David's book, REMOTE: Office Not Required - 00:55 The full session on Periscope - 1:00 Question 1: In a workplace with a mix of local and remote workers, what are some good strategies for making the remote workers feel more connected and not left out of office events? - 8:12 Basecamp's Automatic Check-ins feature - 9:25 Question 2: How do you qualify employees and gain trust if you don’t meet in person? - 14:14 Question 3: How do you handle the transition in a company that hasn't been very remote until now and can't make a quick switch to writing more? - 18:30 A Guide to Managing Remote Teams by Claire Lew, CEO of Know Your Team - 19:40 Question 4: How do you handle video meetings with more than 20 people? - 23:44 "Is group chat making you sweat?" (Signal v. Noise) - 30:00 Question 5: How do you prioritize tasks? What's your productivity system or non-system? - 30:14 Shape Up, Basecamp's book about product development - 30:50 Question 6: Do you believe any developer/designer/product manager can work remotely? - 36:09 Question 7: How would you host a brainstorming meeting? - 38:17 Question 8: How do you properly handle large layoffs of more than 10 people? - 40:51 "Stanley's Abruptly Closes After 52 Years of Selling Affordable Produce, Longtime Workers Caught Off Guard" (Block Club Chicago) - 44:30 Question 9: What are the key things I can do as a manager of a small team to make remote working a great experience within my team, even if our company culture is still catching up after being forced to go full remote? - 46:02 | |||
| 27 Sep 2022 | Don't be a Hero | 00:24:17 | |
You've been working on a thing for days, weeks, maybe months and you're still nowhere near finishing. Our natural instinct is to say, "I've already put this much time and energy into it, might as well finish." Well, most of the time this is wrong. You're not getting that time back either way and usually the better option is just to quit! | |||
| 08 Feb 2023 | Hire Managers of One | 00:19:38 | |
"Everyone should manage themselves" has been a core principle at 37signals from day one and has continued to be key as the company has expanded. Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to discuss why it’s essential to the success of your company to bring on board self-sufficient employees who require minimal supervision in what they refer to as "Managers of One" from their book, Rework. Listen in as they provide tips on identifying such individuals during the hiring process, using Basecamp's features to replace what managers do, and the fundamental characteristics of a great "Manager of One." Show Notes:
[00:42] - "Everyone should manage themselves": A 37signals mantra from day one. [02:12] - Establishing a culture where there is no need for managers. [04:03] - David shares two examples of how using Basecamp's Automated Check-ins helps replace what managers do. [05:12] - Jason shares the behind-the-scenes of using the work to find the employees who are "Managers of One." [07:26] - David shares how "Drive" by Daniel Pink highlights the three drivers of motivation that they look for in an applicant's cover letter. [09:20] - Hiring is not a foolproof process—for anyone—even Google. [10:59] - The "Manager of One" concept applies before and after the hiring process. [13:47] - Self-identifying problems and rushing to solutions are not enough; the interactions must also be great. [14:32] - The ultimate quality of a true "Manager of One." [15:47] - Not to dictate but to support: the hallmarks of a great manager at 37signals. [19:02] - We're getting ready for a "ask me anything" episode. Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, or send us an email, and we might answer it. Links and Resources: Rework Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| 11 Aug 2020 | Rerun - Mr. DHH Goes to Washington | 00:33:50 | |
Basecamp co-founder and Chief Technology Officer David Heinemeier Hansson has been ranting on Twitter about monopolistic practices in Big Tech for a while, and he recently got an unexpected opportunity to air his grievances about Google, Apple, and Facebook in front of a congressional subcommittee. In this episode, David debriefs on his experience and Basecamp’s data analyst, Jane Yang, talks about her work helping David prepare for his appearance. | |||
| 30 Jun 2020 | An Email Account is Born | 00:16:47 | |
To show off the features of HEY, Basecamp's new email service, we needed a fully featured and realistic demo account. That meant writing dozens of fictional emails—a task that fell to Merissa of Basecamp's customer support team. She comes on Rework to talk about her epistolary opus. Show Notes HEY website | @heyhey on Twitter - 00:22 Team OMG - 1:39 Notes to self feature - 5:32 Clips feature - 5:35 Reply Later feature - 5:42 Screener feature - 5:51 Fitzgerald "Fitz" Grant - 9:13 "'A Star Is Born' and the Enduring Appeal of 'I Just Wanted to Take Another Look At You'" (Film School Rejects) - 9:29 | |||
| 02 Nov 2021 | Scratch Your Own Itch | 00:31:14 | |
Basecamp was originally designed as a way to manage 37signals' client work and its success can be credited to the fact that it was designed to scratch a very specific itch by the people with that were itching. Now, we're not saying that building something for others is necessarily a bad way to go about things, but building for your own needs has huge advantages. Show Notes
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| 21 Jun 2023 | Buckets of Time | 00:18:40 | |
Time is a valuable resource that often leaves us longing for more hours to conquer our ever-expanding to-do lists. The relentless stream of emails, meetings, and responsibilities can easily hijack our concentration, reminding us that while we have 24 hours at our disposal, we don't have 24 hours of attention a day. In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to present the concept of "bucketing" your time to make the most of your valuable hours. Tune in as Jason and David share their personal experiences with effective time bucketing, how they've successfully applied this strategy at 37signals, and the unique features offered by HEY, that allow users to manage their email within designated time buckets. Listen in to learn about the transformative power of time bucketing and escape the chaotic distractions for more control over your schedule, enhanced productivity, and a more balanced approach to work. Show Notes: [00:00] - Time is our most precious resource, today, Jason and David sit down with Kimberly to talk about the concept of bucketing your time. [00:39] - David shares how he most effectively buckets his time using one of the best features of HEY. [01:38] - How bucketing time helps teach you about efficiency and places limits on the amount of time you spend on specific tasks while still providing value. [03:27] - Jason shares the key to bucketing your time efficiently. [04:24] - The key to staying consciously focused. [05:24] - The difference between moving projects forward and just “doing stuff.” [06:17] - Squandered time creates a recipe for dread and dissatisfaction with work. [07:19] - Jason shares why he says no to attention-splintering obligations. [08:50] - “It's not just about time. It's about the commitment that you make, that you will not change your mind during that short period of time.” [09:32] - Bucketing time is for individuals, teams, and organizations who want to avoid the whiplash of being pulled back and forth and into and out of things. [10:11] - Why committing to completing is the key to moving forward. [10:50] - Time and attention are very different things, and while you have 24 hours a day, you don't have 24 hours of attention a day. [12:30] - Humans don’t multitask: David shares the behind-the-scenes cost of breaking the flow. [13:21] - How 37signals has only three programmers working on features for Basecamp AND they're shipping stuff every six weeks. [14:34] - It starts at the top—how to break the addiction to ASAP pills to change the culture at your organization for better productivity, as depicted in Rework. [15:07] - Redefining your relationship with what's urgent. [15:55] - The key to telling yourself a different story for more control over your time. [17:35] - Setting boundaries can make you appear more valuable. [18:16] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website here. [18:25] - If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode. Links and Resources: | |||
| 17 Mar 2020 | The (Social) Distance | 00:11:10 | |
Basecamp is a remote company, so we're less disrupted by the current pandemic than many other businesses, but we're still taking steps to keep folks safe. Jason Fried talks about canceling the company's April meetup and closing the Chicago office. Rework will be taking a few weeks off so we can get set up with recording studios at home. In the meantime, if you're working from home for the first time, we'd love to hear your stories! Please get in touch at hello@rework.fm (you can write an email or send us a voice memo) or leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850. Show Notes Tearing the heart out of Saturday night - 00:06 Joe Bob Briggs' series, The Last Drive-In - 0:14 Joe Bob Briggs: How Rednecks Saved Hollywood - 00:27 Our recent episode about leaving the Chicago office - 1:10 RailsConf - 5:59 The Distance - 8:57 Wailin learned about fomites from this 2013 New Yorker article and now she won't stop talking about them - 10:46 | |||
| 27 Jul 2021 | Before Basecamp | 00:26:23 | |
Rework is coming back for season 2 this September! In the meantime here's a little bonus to tide you over. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, during the dot com bubble, Basecamp cofounders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson both had run-ins with venture-backed tech startups. These experiences would form many of the ideas later published in Rework. Show Notes
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| 28 Jan 2020 | Mr. DHH Goes to Washington | 00:36:10 | |
Basecamp co-founder and Chief Technology Officer David Heinemeier Hansson has been ranting on Twitter about monopolistic practices in Big Tech for a while, and he recently got an unexpected opportunity to air his grievances about Google, Apple, and Facebook in front of a congressional subcommittee. In this episode, David debriefs on his experience and Basecamp's data analyst, Jane Yang, talks about her work helping David prepare for his appearance. Show Notes Judiciary Committee page about the hearing, including a video of the event - 1:37 "Pick A Fight," our episode about why David enjoys arguing on Twitter - 2:38 "Open Source Beyond the Market," David's 2019 RailsConf keynote - 4:59 "The Google Ads Shakedown," our episode about our displeasure with the way Google handles ads in search results - 5:51 "100% Facebook-Free," our episode about pulling Basecamp from Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp - 6:42 Previous subcommittee hearings on "Online Platforms and Market Power" - 8:01 David's prepared remarks - 8:35 Congressman Ken Buck - 11:25 The other witnesses were Patrick Spence of Sonos, David Barnett of PopSockets, and Kirsten Daru of Tile - 12:13 "PopSockets CEO says Amazon uses 'bullying with a smile' to press for lower prices" (CNBC) - 13:02 "Everything we know about Apple's Tile-like item tracking device" (9to5Mac) - 19:22 "Apple's Flashlight Is Why We Can't Fund Nice Dumb Things" (TechCrunch) - 19:40 The story of Steve Jobs calling Dropbox a "feature" is recounted in this 2011 Fortune article - 20:23 "Here's how we can break up Big Tech" (Elizabeth Warren) - 26:29 Goldman Sachs estimated that Google paid Apple $9.46 billion in 2018 to be the default search engine - 26:50 The European Union's landmark antitrust case against Microsoft required it to offer a choice of browsers to Windows users - 27:08 NerdWallet's explainer of the Glass-Steagall Act - 27:24 A New York Times explainer of the Overton window - 31:13 | |||
| 21 Jun 2022 | Reasons to Quit | 00:26:52 | |
Are you doing work that matters or are you just doing what you think you should be doing? Sinking too much time into something that you should have quit working on weeks ago is an easy trap to fall into. Avoid it by asking yourself some simple questions:
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| 07 May 2020 | Living on Hope | 00:18:32 | |
We call up our friend and former colleague Esther Lee, who lives with her husband on a 35-foot sailboat named Hope in Jacksonville, Florida. Esther, an "idealist in hiding," talks about how living smaller gives her more space to turn outward and care for others, especially now. Show Notes Esther's bio at the Poetry Foundation - 00:25 The Minimalists - 3:30 Sailrite sewing machines - 9:30 eXXpedition - 13:32 eXXpedition's João Pessoa to Barbados leg has been rescheduled to 2022 - 13:45 Sacrificial Metal by Esther Lee - 14:22 Rudolf Laban - 14:52 | |||
| 13 Apr 2021 | HEY, Is This App Accessible? | 00:31:17 | |
How Basecamp's Michael Berger approached accessibility during the development of HEY, including collaborating with a blind Basecamp user on accessible features that ultimately improved the experience for everyone. Show Notes Michael Berger on Twitter - 00:52 Web Content Accessibility Guidelines - 3:49 Apple's Voiceover - 5:32 JAWS - 5:39 NVDA - 5:41 Scott Ballard-Ridley on Twitter - 12:47 HEY for Work - 18:32 Ruby on Rails Core Team - 23:33 thoughtbot - 23:44 Aspiritech - 24:12 CSUN Assistive Technology Conference - 26:29 HEY's Accessibility page | Michael's write-up of his work on HEY - 29:51 Wailin's tweet complaining that Shaun doesn't insert enough airhorn - 30:10 Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 30:43 Manos: The Hands of HEY - 30:50 | |||
| 10 May 2022 | Sell Your By-products (Season 2) | 00:25:40 | |
Henry Ford turned wood scraps from Model T production into charcoal. That company is now called Kingsford and it's the leading manufacturer of charcoal in America. 37signals was a small web design firm before it started selling the project management tool it made to communicate with clients. That's now called Basecamp. No matter what you make, you're always making something else as well and there's probably a market for that too! Show Notes
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| 05 Apr 2022 | Be a Curator | 00:22:51 | |
Everyone has more ideas than they can realistically fit in a product. A good museum doesn't just throw everything in its collection up on the walls. There's a curation process. Someone says, "no." It's in making these edits that the real product comes out, so embrace it! Show Notes
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| 23 Mar 2021 | Truss The Process | 00:25:48 | |
In 2016, software infrastructure consulting firm Truss made salaries transparent across the entire company. Salaries were revealed internally for all employees, from the executives on down. In this episode, Truss CEO Everett Harper and COO Jen Leech talk about why and how they approached their salary transparency project, and how they've adapted this system as the company has grown. For more details, check out Jen's write-ups of the project on the Truss company blog: "Why We Made Salary Transparent" and "How We Made Salaries Transparent." Show Notes Truss website | LinkedIn | GitHub | Twitter - 00:30 Everett Harper's bio | @everettharper | Jen Leech's bio | @jennifermleech - 1:20 Buffer's policy on open salaries - 3:27 "The True Story of the Gender Pay Gap," a 2016 Freakonomics Radio episode - 3:47 "Demystifying the Gender Pay Gap: Evidence from Glassdoor Salary Data" - 4:52 Dreyfus model of skill acquisition (Wikipedia) - 6:43 | |||
| 17 Nov 2020 | Shape Up: The Print Edition | 00:21:51 | |
In 2019, Basecamp released Shape Up, a digital book by head of product strategy Ryan Singer about our approach to product development. Since then, Ryan has added sections in response to reader feedback and released a print edition. Ryan comes back on Rework to talk about connecting with other business owners using Shape Up, and how he approached the editing, design, and distribution of the physical book without going through traditional publishing channels. Show Notes Our episode introducing Shape Up - 00:10 Ryan Singer's Twitter | website | newsletter - 00:13 Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 00:16 Basecamp's other books - 00:43 Six-week cycles - 3:08 Setting the appetite - 3:36 Principles of shaping - 4:29 Hill charts - 5:20 What about bugs? - 9:48 HEY - 10:33 Making new products - 11:19 Basecamp merch store - 16:21 Notability - 16:57 Ryan's live sessions are on the Shape Up page - 17:24 Ryan's Shape Up Live session with Adam Wathan of Tailwind CSS - 19:34 | |||
| 11 Jan 2023 | Tales from the Front Lines | 00:26:28 | |
“When dealing with customers, especially those that are angry, there are always two tokens on the table. One is the token for it just doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. And the other token is it's the end of the world. We pick one, and the customer picks the other.”—Chase Clemons Today, Chase Clemons is here. Chase is the Head of Customer Support and is on the front lines every day as he leads the 18-person support team at 37signals. Listen in as he shares why every customer interaction's outcome depends on which one of the two tokens the support team chooses, how to keep things Fisher Price easy for better customer understanding, and some of the strategies he has learned over his eleven years at 37signals for providing excellent customer service.
Show Notes:
[00:56] - Chase shares his story of providing customer support for 37signals for 11 years. [01:48] - The two industries Chase thinks everyone needs to work in at some point in their lives to be able to handle ANY situation that life or customers throw at you. [02:25] - Chase shares what went wrong when the 37signals support team tried to meet a 1-minute benchmark for responding to customers. [05:25] - What the customer support team learned when they dropped the time requirement. [05:54] - Chase shares an example of how they got off to a rocky start with a customer, but by offering real people PHONE support, they turned it into a WIN for the team and a new customer. [09:12] - Is it a BOT or not? [10:25] - Chase explains the meaning of 'stop the cap.' [10:50] - Humans are expensive but also friendly and can actually help other humans. [11:46] - 'Training the corporate out of them' and adopting the Basecamp voice for friendly, concise answers. [13:12] - How to explain things so they don't get lost in the translation. [14:34] - Why the philosophy of Basecamp products is to keep things Fisher-Price easy. [15:17] - Chase compares customer service mistakes to white river rafting and why everyone is afraid until they 'flip in the raft.' [16:54] - The disconnect between what we convey through our text, how people receive it, and why the subsequent response matters the most. [18:01] - Chase shares the lesson of the two tokens when dealing with customers and why the support team needs to make a big deal out of the problem, so the customer doesn't have to. [20:07] - Chase shares his tips for putting everyone on the front lines, including where to start if you want to involve everyone in your company in customer support. [22:15] - "Interacting with the customers reminds us of who is paying our paychecks." [22:51] - The value of having an 'emergency' contact page for your customers to make them customers for life. [25:39] - Want some advice from the 37signals support team on how they would handle a customer support issue? Contact us here.
Links and Resources: Put Everyone on the Front Lines | REWORK | |||
| 28 Dec 2022 | Year In Review: Growing As a Company | 00:26:50 | |
With the year ending, it's a good time to reflect on how far you've come in the past year as a company.
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss the growth of the company in 2022 and some of the significant changes they made this year.
They'll walk us through some of the new positions they’ve added, the challenges they faced along the way, and how they work to preserve a culture at 37signals that aligns with who they are.
Show Notes:
[00:42] - Jason shares how their two hits, Basecamp and HEY, were the primary motivators to change the way they operate (and grow). [02:44] - How a bigger team is helping 37signals stay on track with their goals. [03:44] -David shares that after 20 years, the extra team members are helping to ensure everything gets done without over-scheduling and a little more downtime. [06:40] - The importance of expanding the team to be more available for their customers to help them better use the 37signals products. [08:13] - How they are creating educational tools to help their customers get more out of their products. [09:26] - Making the experience of buying Basecamp feel more luxurious. [11:13] - David discusses their painful experiences with not expanding their team to mitigate business risk. [13:04] - Jason shares what's tricky about new roles from the book, Rework. [14:01] - How to stop replaying your greatest hits and embrace the growth experience. [15:12] - How new blood and fresh perspectives help you test your old ideas to see if they've improved. [17:44] - The joys and challenges of letting go and leaning into growth. [19:01] - The frustrating and rewarding process of putting things on someone else's plate—even if YOU are good at them. [21:49] - The challenge of seeing beyond HOW the work is done to focus on the outcome. [22:54] - Why the culture at an 80-person company cannot be the same as the culture of a 40-person company, and what David and Jason are doing to ensure it remains true to who they are and what they stand for. [26:16] - If you have a specific question for Jason and David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources: Basecamp 37signals on YouTube | |||
| 19 Nov 2019 | Spending in the Clouds | 00:17:56 | |
Basecamp has cut back its reliance on Amazon and Google, but there's one area where it's tough to find alternatives to Big Tech: cloud services. Even so, there are ways to cut spending on this $3 million annual expense while keeping the company's apps running smoothly. In this episode, Blake Stoddard on Basecamp's Ops team talks about how he volunteered to look for savings on cloud services and really delivered—to the tune of over a half-million dollars. Show Notes Blake Stoddard on Twitter - 1:27 AWS Lambda - 4:45 The Reddit hug of death is also known as the Slashdot effect - 4:55 Maybe Roxane Gay can save us from our cord-cutting dystopia - 15:49 | |||
| 12 May 2020 | Bubble Wrap & Prayers | 00:21:39 | |
The government may not consider comic book shops, indoor plant stores, and small boutiques "essential," but these businesses are vital to the unique fabric of their neighborhoods and downtowns. Without foot traffic, they're finding new ways to connect with customers and stay afloat, all while navigating supply chain disruptions and e-commerce logistics. Show Notes AlleyCat Comics website | Facebook | Instagram - 0:55 Mighty Con - 1:36 "New Comics Delayed Across Industry in Wake of Coronavirus Concerns" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 2:10 Our previous episodes about small businesses and COVID covered fitness studios and family-oriented businesses - 2:37 Hearth & Hammer General Store website | Facebook | Instagram - 3:29 Walden Woods candle - 4:22 The Zen Succulent website | Facebook | Instagram - 8:00 Modern Terrarium Studio by Megan George - 9:01 Jordan Grace Owens website | collaboration with The Zen Succulent - 10:36 Claire Daniel website | picture of her installation at The Zen Succulent - 11:02 Mad Cave Studios GoFundMe for comic book shops - 13:25 Image Comics announcement on their COVID measures - 13:37 Megan George was able to get a Paycheck Protection Program loan, but most of her fellow women of color business owners were shut out - 16:04 Sex Criminals - 19:31 Moog Theremini - 21:16 | |||
| 24 Nov 2020 | Shape Up with Clients | 00:29:53 | |
Since releasing Shape Up, the book by Basecamp's Ryan Singer about our approach to product development, we've heard from other companies who've also adopted this methodology. David Nichols is the co-founder and CEO of Loupe, a company that helps design machines for clients in sectors from aerospace to packaging. He comes on Rework to talk about using Shape Up principles with clients who come from a world of complex contracts and project overruns. Show Notes Our previous episode, "Shape Up: The Print Edition" - 00:11 Shape Up - 00:16 David Nichols on Twitter - 00:45 Loupe - 00:49 Six-week cycles - 7:56 Circuit breaker - 13:50 Loupe's explanation of how they "Ship in Six" - 17:30 Our episode introducing Shape Up - 24:52 We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap & Prayers" - 28:02 | |||
| 02 Mar 2021 | A Dose of Empathy | 00:18:23 | |
Equilibria, a company that makes CBD products for women, has a team of dedicated dosage specialists who do one-on-one consultations with customers. During the pandemic, this team has taken on an unprecedented amount of customer support—bearing witness to the heightened stress and anxiety that their customers are feeling around job security, caregiving, and family life. Equilibria's Marcy Capron Vermillion and Maia Reed come on Rework to talk about helping this team maintain their own stores of emotional energy. Show Notes "Women Tending to Their Basic Needs Is Not Self-Care" by Meredith Ethington - 00:12 "This Is A Primal Scream," the New York Times' special report on American mothers' mental health crisis - 1:02 Equilibria website | Instagram - 1:13 Marcy Capron-Vermillion - 2:20 Maia Reed - 3:39 Illinois Women in Cannabis - 4:25 Ellementa - 4:28 Laura van Dernoot Lipsky of The Trauma Stewardship Institute - 12:12 | |||
| 03 Mar 2020 | Rug Life | 00:27:16 | |
Jarred Lustgarten left a Wall Street career to start a rug-cleaning business with $600 in borrowed money and a stack of flyers. A decade later, J.L. Carpet & Upholstery is profitable and Jarred has a very visible reminder on his hands of his commitment to his vocation. Show Notes Irin Carmon's website | Twitter - 00:40 J.L. Carpet & Upholstery - 1:23 Irin's tweet about Jarred's tattoo | Jarred's tattoo - 1:50 New York Daily News columnist Harry Siegel's tweet in response - 2:18 New York Rug Life - 2:49 Lisa Wagner's website, Rug Chick - 15:52 Park Slope Parents - 17:39 Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg by Irin Carmon and Shana Knizhnik - 26:32 | |||
| 05 Oct 2021 | Why Grow? | 00:27:53 | |
Basecamp has always prided itself on staying small and lean. But, with two major products, we're going to change that. The question when looking to grow, however, is "why?" Show Notes
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| 01 Dec 2020 | Support and Console-ation | 00:17:49 | |
In the last several years, a group of Basecamp customer support representatives has developed an expertise around "on-call support," or tackling some of the thornier technical issues that require diving into the code base of our applications. This team of self-taught specialists grew out of curiosity, creativity, and an approach to programming that emphasizes fixing over building. Show Notes Basecamp's customer support team - 00:13 Jim Mackenzie on Twitter - 00:55 Jamis Buck on Twitter - 3:18 Jamis adapted his original Basil & Fabian on-call notes into a series that teaches newbies about algorithms and computer science. You can read Basil & Fabian on Jamis' website or on Kindle - 3:27 Dan Kim is now a programmer on Basecamp's Android team - 5:57 how to make templates in Basecamp 2 - 6:30 Wikipedia's explanation of traceroutes - 13:54 Kibana is another technical tool used at Basecamp - 14:55 our episode about holding office hours - 16:05 Rosa on Twitter - 16:07 | |||
| 23 Feb 2021 | The Humble Fungus | 00:22:04 | |
A career climbing the ladder in tech and software left Jesse Noller feeling disillusioned and isolated. He found connection, community, and purpose in a different kind of complex distributed system—mushrooms. Today he's the proprietor of a spore-to-table business called The Humble Fungus. (Content warning: This episode mentions suicide.) For free and confidential emotional support, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Show Notes Jesse Noller on Twitter | Instagram - 1:02 The Humble Fungus website | YouTube | Facebook - 1:10 Community Food Share in Louisville, CO - 3:32 The Humble Fungus "About Us" page - 14:12 The Humble Fungus on Patreon - 20:50 | |||
| 03 Dec 2019 | Venture Capital and Control with Dave Teare | 01:06:11 | |
Dave Teare is the co-founder and official "heart and soul" of 1Password, which recently raised $200 million in its first round of venture capital. Basecamp is a longtime happy customer of 1Password and also a longtime critic of venture capital, so the funding announcement led to some back-and-forth on Twitter between Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Dave Teare. In this episode, DHH and Dave get on the phone to hash out their feelings about venture capital and what this funding round means for 1Password's future. Show Notes "Open Source and Power with Matt Mullenweg," our episode featuring a phone call between DHH and Automattic's Matt Mullenweg - 00:34 DHH's tweet about Automattic's funding round - 00:49 Dave Teare on Twitter | 1Password - 00:56 1Password's blog post announcing the funding round - 1:02 DHH's tweet about 1Password's funding announcement - 1:04 "A love letter to DHH and others concerned about our recent funding announcement" - 1:30 "Bezos Expeditions invests in 37signals" (Signal v. Noise) - 1:55 1Password co-founder Roustem Karimov on Twitter - 3:10 DHH's Ruby on Rails demo about building a blog engine in 15 minutes - 3:30 "Conceal, don't feel" is a lyric from Frozen's Let It Go - 14:14 "Inside WeWork's week from hell: How the mass layoffs went down" (CNN) - 19:16 "The day I became a millionaire" (Signal v. Noise) - 21:22 "It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work" - 25:31 Apple's Differential Privacy policy (PDF) - 26:25 Our Incredible Journey (Tumblr) - 31:42 "The Mess at Meetup" (Gizmodo) - 32:08 "Meetup wants to charge users $2 just to RSVP for events — and some are furious" (The Verge) - 32:18 "Patreon now offers creators 3 plans, with fees ranging from 5-12%" (VentureBeat) - 32:45 An irate forum post about Dropbox's new storage plan - 33:12 "GitHub is trying to quell employee anger over its ICE contract. It's not going well" (LA Times) - 34:55 "The deal Jeff Bezos got on Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise) - 39:20 "How to Fly a Horse" by Kevin Ashton (Wikipedia) - 41:00 | |||
| 14 Jun 2023 | Twitter is Still Up | 00:21:30 | |
It's been more than seven months since Elon Musk purchased Twitter. Since then, a reported 80% of the company has been let go, reducing their staff from just under 8,000 employees to around 1,500. With all that turmoil, many believed that Twitter would fail completely or stop working, but Twitter's still up! Today, host Kimberly Rhodes, Jason Fried, and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to delve into the aftermath of Elon's controversial acquisition of Twitter, the surprises and lessons learned from this transformative event, and an exploration of the question, how many people do you really need to run your company effectively? Tune in as they share insights into their own experiences at 37signals and offer valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and business owners on the impact of Twitter's restructuring. Listen in as Jason and David discuss the resilience of Twitter, their initial predictions for the company, and the evolving dynamics of company size and efficiency. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of today's show, which is all things Twitter, and asks, how many employees do you need? [00:55] - Jason shares that the fundamental point of view is that companies need fewer employees than they think. [01:41] - While there were casualties in terms of job losses, the system of Twitter still works—you don't need as many employees as you might think. [02:28] - When building a company, the lesson is to avoid hiring more people than necessary. [03:03] - David shares, “Twitter was morbidly obese.” The lesson is clear: Less is more, and lighter teams can move faster. [04:11] - The Twitter downsizing experiment is a real-life revelation. [05:30] - In stagnant organizations, some individuals may have had "bullshit jobs" that did not impact the company or customers. [07:01] - "Representative of the kind of company that Twitter was, I can totally see how they had six and a half thousand too many people." Plus, a former Twitter employee's experience highlights the depth of the issue (not a single thing that person had worked on ever made it into production). [09:00] - The primary advantage of being small is speed—it’s just physics—and it's business. [09:52] - The valuable lessons to be learned from Twitter. [10:24] - One of the most controversial decisions made by Musk that sparked widespread debate and contestation. [11:21] - One of the novel case studies of the entire tech history—reminiscent of when Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997. [12:21] - Speaking of Mr. Jobs - how he pared Apple down to the four things he thought Apple needed to be a top-tier company (and got rid of the bloat). [13:24] - Quoting another social media tech titan on Twitter prior to Musk's takeover. [14:43] - “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery’—spawning competition and breathing new life into an area that had become stagnant through experimentation. [15:25] - Twitter's complex challenge—there's no easy fix for creating a perfect 'town square of conversation' and the social media platform poised to unseat Twitter through its radical difference. [17:34] - Even a radical dislike of Elon can’t break the addiction to the network. [18:02] - Starting from 0 followers sucks, and building an audience is hard. [19:41] - Going from 200 to zero is still going to zero. Many networks fail to address the emotional impact of starting over—on HEY, the focus is on the pleasure of writing without analytics. [20:57] - You can find Jason on Twitter @jasonfried and David @dhh. “Rework” is a production of | |||
| 15 Dec 2020 | A Dumpster Fire of a Year | 00:30:29 | |
HEY launch, App Store, we can’t take it anymore We didn’t start the fire—well, in this case we did. Show Notes Andy Didorosi on Twitter - 00:09 "Meet Andy," our episode about Andy joining Basecamp - 00:18 Signal v. Noise - 00:33 Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:36 HEY - 2:22 H.E.R.L. - 2:50 The dumpster fire livestream - 4:38 Detroit Bus Company - 5:59 Nathan on Twitter - 6:48 Raspberry Pi - 9:10 Recycle Here (Facebook) - 12:30 Ben Wolf of Ferrous Wolf Fabrication (Instagram) - 14:42 Monica Dubray - 14:51 Eric Froh (Instagram) - 14:53 Josh Bacon on Twitter - 15:03 "The Making of a Dumpster Fire" (SvN) - 25:31 Polyamberous candle from Boy Smells - 29:08 Kacey Musgraves collab with Boy Smells - 29:33 | |||
| 15 Sep 2020 | Farewell, West Loop | 00:35:48 | |
Basecamp has closed its physical office after a 10-year run in Chicago's West Loop area. In this episode, we say good-bye to the neighborhood and two of its businesses. J.P. Graziano and un-cooked are small, family-owned restaurants on either side of the longevity spectrum: Jim Graziano is the fourth-generation owner of an Italian food importer-turned-sandwich shop, and Jeremy Jones opened his vegan grab-and-go place with his mother and wife in July. Jim and Jeremy talk about weathering the pandemic as independent restaurant owners. Show Notes Our previous episode about closing the Chicago office - 00:21 J.P. Graziano Grocery Company website | Instagram | Twitter - 2:15 un-cooked website | Instagram - 7:29 Collective Resource Compost - 12:27 Strength in the City | fundraising campaign for their mentorship program with SRV - 20:17 Taste Real Chicago - 34:03 | |||
| 04 Jan 2023 | Put Everyone on the Front Lines | 00:23:45 | |
What is your method of connecting with your customers? Does your product or service make sense to them, and do you understand how they see it?
Our perception of what is easy and straightforward and what the customer perceives as easy and straightforward can sometimes differ, making it vital for everyone on the team to hear directly from the customers without the ‘muffler.‘
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss how 37signals gives everyone on the team an opportunity to engage with their customers from their book, Rework, in the chapter called "Put Everyone On The Front Lines."
Show Notes:
[00:40] - Jason shares why it's great to ensure everyone can engage with the company's customers. [01:47] - David shares why it's vital to hear from the customer without the muffler occasionally. [03:54] - Why it's crucial to have contact with the customers to remember you're selling to individuals—and it's rewarding, too. [05:31] - Ensuring everyone gets their chance on the front lines in front of the customers is one of the most important things you can do. [06:40] - Applying the productivity and insight enhancement process to your team. [07:35] - It's not wasted talent; it's a motivational, bright spot that pays for itself. [08:28] - If you think you're too good to help customers, you're in the wrong business. [10:40] - 'There's no way you can come away from this experience feeling like it was a waste of time. It's just it's impossible. It's actually incredibly enlightening.' [11:32] - Being on the front lines helps you remember that we are all human, facing our own things outside of what's going on with the software. [12:52] - Everyone means EVERYONE. Founders show up first and lead by example. [15:14] - David shares why sometimes your authentic voice DOES need to be filtered. [16:11] - Jason shares that you're in bad shape whenever you begin to recite the terms of service to a customer. [18:13] - Why customer support is really marketing. [19:56] - 600 new email threads daily, tens of thousands of potential ambassadors for your brand = the holy grail of organic growth. [21:25] - Customer live demos a thing of the future? [22:25] - Next week, 37signals' head of customer support will share tips on interacting positively with customers, even when they have problems.
Links and Resources: Dev.37signals | |||
| 14 Dec 2022 | Let Your Customers Outgrow You | 00:22:16 | |
Customer relationships don't have to last forever. Keeping your hands wrapped around every customer will only lead to trying to evolve into something you're not is the death knell for your business.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss the idea that you should let your customers outgrow you from their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:32] - Why evolving as your customers do is a death knell for your business. [01:37] - David shares why, as a software design business owner, you need to be the voice of the people who aren't your customers—yet! [02:31] - By building in all the features your existing customers want, you are closing the door on what makes things turnkey for new customers. [03:24] - Not every customer relationship has to be forever. [04:55] - Jason shares why your product needs to evolve no matter your business size. [05:39] - Why it's important to gear your improvements on behalf of everyone and not a few outliers. [06:39] - How pricing models differ based on size - both of you and your customers. [07:49] - We don't have whales because we don't have the sales cycle to hunt whales. [10:38] - Keeping your hands clasped around every customer vs. knowing when to let them go (or grow). [11:46] - We don't want to change our business to support companies much bigger than ours, but your mileage may vary. [14:26] - The lackluster appeal of committee-driven software development. [16:07] - Hey—a different animal for a global audience. [16:31] - Jason shares why doing anything easy requires a lot of work. [18:13] - David shares why 37signals is in the business of designing software for an audience of one. [19:11] - Wallet-based feedback is the best feedback you can get. [20:03] - "The only kind of software that is out the gate great is software built for the people who've worked on it." [21:19] - We are putting together an "ask me anything" episode. So if you have a question for Jason and David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850. Links and Resources: Hey | |||
| 09 Jun 2020 | The Spy Who Emailed Me | 00:25:41 | |
On June 15, Basecamp launches a new email service called Hey. One of its features is that it blocks tracking pixels that report back to the sender when and how you read an email. In this episode, Basecamp's marketing team talks about their difficult search for an email newsletter provider that doesn't track subscribers. And Nabiha Syed, president of the new investigative journalism outlet The Markup, talks about their commitment to data minimization—including zero tracking, not even open rates, on their newsletters—and how that affects their relationship with readers. Basecamp’s newsletter - 2:34 Hey - 3:05 Andy Didorosi on Twitter - 3:29 Farnam Street newsletter - 5:47 Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 7:23 Mailchimp's postcard program | Opt out of receiving postcards - 9:21 Sendy.co - 12:34 Nabiha Syed's bio | Twitter - 14:04 The Markup - 14:06 The Markup's privacy policy - 14:28 Nabiha’s letter - 16:27 Martijn de Kuijper on Twitter | Revue - 18:40 | |||
| 31 May 2023 | Two Person Teams | 00:27:38 | |
If you've been following along with the podcast, you've heard the mention of two-person teams and how 37signals makes the most of its software features and productivity with just two people working together—one programmer and one designer. In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to dive deeper into the concept of two-person teams and share valuable insights on the benefits, challenges, and strategies behind their unique approach. Listen in as Jason and David share the importance of short-term cycles, the significance of building their own tools for maximum efficiency, and how these principles shape their company's operations. They also discuss the expansion of two-person teams into other areas of the organization and the limitations of working as a team of one. Tune in to discover how the power of two can revolutionize teamwork and productivity. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson are here to discuss the concept of smaller teams and how two-person teams are effective at 37signals. [00:48] - Jason shares that initially, teams at 37signals had three people, including two programmers and one designer, and why they changed to two people on each six-week cycle project. [01:33] - The constraint of having two people is not a resource issue but rather an opportunity to tighten project scopes and prioritize ideas. Direct communication between the programmer and designer eliminates translation layers and allows for efficient progress. [02:14] - How the direct collaboration of two-person teams sharing the same workspace enables rapid progress. [02:53] - David shares how working with web technologies improves two-person teams' efficiency and helps avoid delays caused by platform approvals or updates. [03:49] - The significant advantage for 37signals is that it eliminates the need for conversions. [04:44] - Enhancing the bandwidth between the two team members by removing obstacles and maximizing direct communication—how 37signals realized that having five programmers for Basecamp was too many. [05:40] - Blowing the minds of startups who think they need an army of programmers—the secrets of 37signals' productivity. [06:31] - New members easily integrate into the productive system, proving that anyone can embrace this approach. [06:45] - Two-person team pairings at 37signals are flexible—some stay together, some don't. [09:06] - Embracing the freedom of the two-person team approach by setting aside daily stand-ups and rigid check-ins in favor of a balance of oversight and support without unnecessary bureaucracy. [10:19] - The secret behind 37signals' unique management approach—how management, driven by processes rather than people, creates a more efficient work environment. [11:10] - How a simple set of questions and a six-week feature cycle can provide clarity while evaluating progress and fostering trust within the team. [12:48] - A drop of product management is all you need to drive success. [14:31] - How traditional software development approaches and large teams lead to excessive long-term planning, misguided processes, and massive hirings and firings. [16:02] - Challenging the status quo with smaller, nimble projects for greater success. [17:07] - Unlike industry giants, 37signals is focused on speed and efficiency. [19:05] - David shares the difference between producing something final instead of “a long conveyor belt of partial feature implementations that get put behind feature flags, and you have the proliferation of half-done work that has never moved off the plate.” [21:07] - Jason shares one of the biggest mistakes in business—what promises really get you (hint: it’s not to your t | |||
| 26 Apr 2022 | Focus on What Won't Change | 00:26:31 | |
A lot of companies focus on chasing hot trends or new technology. That's all fine and good, but the core of your business should be built around the things that people will always want. In the case of Basecamp, that means speed, simplicity, and great customer service. For a company like Amazon, it means focusing on fast delivery and easy returns. Customers are going to want these things now and 10 years from now. Show Notes
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| 15 Nov 2019 | BONUS - Breaking the Black Box | 00:57:24 | |
Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson sparked a national controversy this week when he posted a series of livid tweets about how his wife received a much lower credit limit than he did on their Apple Cards, despite applying with the same financial information. What began as a rant against opaque algorithms turned into a regulatory investigation and more. In this episode, Dr. Ruha Benjamin of Princeton University and entrepreneur Mara Zepeda, co-founder of the XXcelerate Fund and Zebras Unite, talk about how the tech and financial sectors perpetuate systemic inequalities and how to start repairing the damage—or building something more equitable and inclusive from the ground up. Show Notes Apple Card - 1:31 DHH's Twitter thread - 1:53 Steve Wozniak's response - 1:58 The New York Department of Financial Services' announcement of its investigation into Goldman Sachs - 2:11 "About the Apple Card" (Jamie Heinemeier Hansson) - 2:28 Ruha Benjamin's website | Twitter - 2:57 Race After Technology by Ruha Benjamin - 2:59 University of Michigan article about the failures of the state's MiDAS system - 7:31 "Racial bias in a medical algorithm favors white patients over sicker black patients" (Washington Post) - 8:18 "Biased bots: Artificial-intelligence systems echo human prejudices" (Princeton University) - 12:40 "Amazon scraps secret AI recruiting tool that showed bias against women" (Reuters) - 14:15 Ruha Benjamin's Resources - 15:29 Joy Buolamwini on Twitter - 16:52 "Atlanta Asks Google Whether It Targeted Black Homeless People" (NYT) - 17:40 Tuskegee Study, 1932-1972 (CDC) - 18:35 Atlantic article about J. Marion Sims and his experiments on enslaved women - 18:51 NYT article about China's use of facial recognition technology to oppress the Uighur minority - 20:10 "Somerville Bans Government Use Of Facial Recognition Tech" (WBUR) - 20:38 "Can you make AI fairer than a judge? Play our courtroom algorithm game" (MIT Technology Review) - 22:31 | |||
| 14 Jul 2020 | Q and HEY, Part 1 | 00:32:07 | |
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a livestream session where they answered audience questions about Hey, Basecamp's new email service. In Part One, they discuss feature requests, customer support, and plans for hiring. The full Q&A can be viewed on YouTube. Show Notes HEY.com - 00:10 Jason Fried on Twitter | DHH on Twitter - 00:24 Jason and David's remote work Q&A, Part 1 and Part 2 - 1:03 Q1: What's your suggestion for managing the Feed? - 1:29 Q2: What are you going to do about signatures? - 5:03 Q3: What's a feature you've gotten the most requests for that you won't bring to HEY? - 6:13 Q4: Who led UI/UX for HEY, and do you do any user research? - 8:48 Q5: What's the intended purpose of the Previously Seen section? - 9:57 Q6: Having support with actual humans for an email service seems unique. Are you planning to lean into that with your marketing? - 11:33 Q7: What's your vision for enterprise HEY adoption? - 13:49 Q8: What about accessibility? - 16:11 Q9: What about recruiting? - 16:45 Q10: Do you recycle email addresses after someone stops paying? - 20:05 Q11: Do you offer monthly subscriptions? - 22:35 Q12: Now that you've launched, is there anything you wish you would have done differently? - 26:07 @heyhey on Twitter - 31:50 | |||
| 08 Sep 2020 | Exit to Community | 00:25:37 | |
A group of startup founders, investors, and thinkers are reimagining corporate ownership to take into account all of the people who help build the business—not just executives and investors, but customers, users, and suppliers. Their vision for Exit to Community is outlined in this zine, and two of its authors come on Rework to talk about their vision for a more equitable and inclusive end game for tech startups. Show Notes Zebras Unite website | Twitter - 1:18 "Exit to Community: A Community Primer" zine - 1:24 Mara Zepeda on Twitter | Mara's previous interview on Rework - 1:52 Hearken and Switchboard's merger - 1:56 Nathan Schneider's website | Nathan on Twitter - 2:11 Media Enterprise Design Lab - 2:17 "Meetup to the People: How a Zebra could Rise from a Unicorn's Fall" (Medium) - 4:41 "Meetup was a darling of the tech industry. But can it survive WeWork?" (NBC News) - 4:45 ESOP - 10:49 The #WeAreTwitter #Buy Twitter campaign - 20:17 | |||
| 15 Feb 2022 | Embrace Constraints | 00:24:03 | |
When you're just starting off you're going to be surrounded by constraints. You probably won't have enough time to do everything you want to do. You probably don't have enough people or money either. Don't worry! These are good things! It's when you're boxed in that you're forced to make tough decisions on what to do and what not to do. This results in a clearer, more streamlined product. Embrace those constraints! Show Notes
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| 12 Oct 2021 | Workaholism | 00:26:37 | |
Working long hours, putting in overtime, logging on on the weekends, have become badges of honor, but there's a big difference between work and getting stuff done. This week Jason and David push back against this idea of workaholism. Show Notes
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| 18 Jan 2023 | Pick A Fight | 00:26:02 | |
If you follow Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, anywhere online, you know they aren’t afraid to speak their minds and stand up for what they believe in.
Today, Jason and David sit down to discuss how embracing their viewpoint has led them to go toe-to-toe with some of the industry's biggest behemoths. They’ll walk us through some of their biggest battles and what it took to stand their ground while positively impacting the world. They’ll also share tips for when, and how, picking a fight with a competitor can work to your advantage. Plus, more insight from the chapter called "Pick A Fight" in their book, Rework. Show Notes:
[00:41] - Jason shares the reasoning behind their tendency to take a stand online. [01:27] - Broken business models: the awkwardness of companies who statistically lose money trying to sell business software. [02:49] - David describes how having strong principles and standing firmly behind them puts you in direct competition with companies that run on polar opposite business principles. [04:01] - Using the underdog advantage in your marketing = highlighting the things that resonate with the target audience you are trying to reach (and make you look good). [05:43] - Don't be afraid of picking on goliath-sized competitors, but be sure you are punching up. [07:02] - Be careful of coming off as crass. If you're the market leader, ensure you act like it. [08:13] - The story of the industry heavyweight that considered taking a run at squashing Basecamp. [09:21] - The big conflict with Apple and the resulting “rocket to the moon” free marketing [12:03] - Jason explains the difference between ignoring your competition and picking a fight with them. [12:43] - Be aware (but not too aware) so you don't compete in a field you'll never win in as a small business. [13:28] - David explains why having confidence in your unique and creative ideas can give small companies a significant strategic advantage. [15:07] - It’s important to remember a company's public image is just a sliver of its reality; follow accordingly and stick with being original. [17:42] - Why you need to keep your "pick a fight" campaigns organic, and NOT strategic, to keep them from appearing contrived. [21:25] - How knowing who you are and what you stand for as a company helps you handle the detractors. [23:15] - Picking a fight needs courage and humanity; injecting your principles into your marketing isn’t for the faint of heart. [25:31] - Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer your question on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources: Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| 01 Mar 2022 | Start at the Epicenter | 00:22:46 | |
When starting something new, you can work on the stuff you could do, the stuff you want to do, and the stuff you have to do. It's the stuff you have to do is where you should begin. To find that epicenter ask yourself, "if I took this one thing away, would what I'm selling still exist." Show Notes
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| 30 Nov 2021 | Mission Statement Impossible | 00:24:44 | |
Last episode we discussed how important it is to stand for something and you'd think writing your values down in a mission statement would be a great way to let people know exactly what you stand for. Well, you'd be wrong. Mission statements are almost always vapid, boring, platitudes that end up saying nothing at all. Even worse, they often turn people away entirely! Show Notes
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