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25 Jul 2022
How To Optimise Your Sleep with Lisa Tamati
00:09:09
In this Episode, Lisa talks about How to optimise sleep and the steps that you can take each day to overcome it. She also provide tips that you can copy to properly optimise your sleeping routine and to have a good sleep each day. Also she identify the different factors that can hinder us from getting enough sleep and provide medical and practical solution to have better sleep.
For more information and more medical explaination on how you can optimise sleep, check the previous episode of Pushing The Limits with Dr Kirk Parsley :
If you're looking how to optimise your sleep, then this episode is for you!
3 Reasons to Listen:
Discover how to optimise your sleep
Learn the medical and practical solution to have better sleep
Top Tips to Optimise Your Sleep
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
How to Achieve Metabolic Health with Prof Grant Schofield
01:08:32
Are you having a hard time achieving good health? Do you find that no matter what you try, you can’t seem to hit your fitness goals? It’s not really your fault — wellness is hard to achieve when the food industry sells unhealthy food. Fortunately, there’s a way out.
In this episode, Prof Grant Schofield shares how we can optimise our metabolic health in the modern environment. He discusses the advantages of being metabolically flexible, especially for athletes. We also talk about how sugar addiction and chronic stress can lead to severe physical and mental consequences. Likewise, we delve into the importance of making research more understandable for people.
If you want to improve your health and achieve a state of healthy metabolic balance, then this episode is for you!
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Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
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Grant liked science and sports from his early childhood.
He wanted to study physical education in university, but his family told him to take up engineering. He eventually ended up studying physiology and psychology.
Grant then got into triathlons while he started his academic and research career.
He focuses on fitness, nutrition, sleep, and well being.
He has written books on fasting and diets for reversing sicknesses and enhancing performance.
[10:41] Metabolic Flexibility Can Be Trained
A long time ago, humans used fat as a primary fuel source when resting and moving around.
In contrast, the modern, average person doesn't burn fat, especially when at rest.
Grant thinks that people can reverse this and train to be metabolically flexible.
People who have metabolic inflexibility tend to have a low supply of readily available energy.
Grant prescribed a diet and workout training programme to a client. This person eventually became fat-adapted and broke a record in the triathlon he joined.
[17:54] The Truth About the Keto Diet
The initial process of getting into the keto diet is strict, but after around three weeks, however, it becomes sustainable.
Unless you have therapeutic reasons to do so, you don’t need to stick to the keto diet all the time.
Some people believe that the keto diet isn't good because our genetic ancestors had short lifespans.
Grant and Lisa argue that the cavemen’s lifespans were shorter because of other reasons.
[24:18] The Addictiveness of Food
Lisa thinks that the quality of our food is horrific: a lot of processed food is unhealthy and addictive. Grant also observed this through his research.
Sugar, in particular, is often overused in our food.
Sugar addiction can be especially harmful because our bodies are not predisposed to coping with it.
The food industry has many tactics to make unhealthy, addicting food sound healthy.
Listen to the whole episode to hear Grant’s research and battling the food industry’s tactics.
[34:57] The Metabolic and Mental Health Crisis
Mental health problems are becoming more and more prevalent amongst New Zealand youth.
Because of the faulty healthcare system, the youth often turn to medicine for their mental health problems.
We have a metabolic crisis involving obesity, diabetes and the brain.
Our metabolic balance can be interrupted by antidepressants.
Instead of taking medicine, Lisa thinks the youth should be taught how to manage their health better.
[43:41] About Glutamate and Stress
Our brains produce glutamate when we are stressed.
There is an inhibitory system called GABA that inhibits the effects of glutamate.
When you are chronically stressed, this amino acid keeps getting pumped out and can overwhelm your brain.
Too much glutamate in our system can kill our brain cells and damage the brain.
You can combat glutamate toxicity through various methods. Learn how when you listen to the full episode!
[58:02] Making Science Understandable for Everyone
Lisa mentions the works of Patrick McKeown and James Nestor.
Grant applauds their approach of translating science into something understandable while not dumbing it down.
Lisa thinks that most health systems treat most people as idiots and don't explain the science behind health well.
[1:03:26] Grant’s Parting Advice
It’s difficult to reach a state of good health and homeostasis in our current world. However, it’s not impossible.
Grant advocates for everyone to use their voice to overwhelm the industries that promote unhealthy living.
7 Powerful Quotes From This Episode
‘The thing is, with addictions, of course, is that people go because everyone is not addicted to it, doesn't mean it's not a thing.’
‘Sugar is definitely one of those things that is one of the hardest addictions I think, not that I've been addicted to anything else but it's a bloody hard addiction to get rid of and stay on top of.’
‘We're fighting a war here, and we've got kids that are already diabetic and before they're even teenagers, and this is a coming huge disaster for the healthcare system.’
‘We've got a metabolic crisis with obesity and diabetes, but guess what? The most important metabolic organ is your brain.’
'Now I understand the need for health fundamentals like sleep, hygiene, and movement, and exercise, and sunshine, and the right diet, because diet is a huge piece of the puzzle because your gut and your brain are connected.'
‘We weren't designed for long-term stress. We're designed for acute fight or flight.’
‘Let's treat people as if they have got a brain in the head. Just because they don't know the jargon. You can explain the jargon.’
About Prof Grant
Prof Grant Schofieldis a Professor of Public Health at Auckland University of Technology and the director of the university's Human Potential Centre (HPC). His research and teaching interests include wellbeing and chronic disease prevention. Prof Schofield is committed to unlocking people's peak performance through consulting. His motto: 'be the best you can be'.
Grant has been interested in human health and performance ever since he started his career. He first took up psychology, went into sport and exercise psychology, then into public health. Prof Schofield has a diverse background and has an interest in biology, medicine, public health, and productivity management. He covers various health topics in hisblogandbook.
If you want to connect with Prof Grant, you can follow him onFacebook.
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week I have another wonderful professor with me who is going to share some insights and the latest research and I'm really, really excited for this interview. I have Professor Grant Schofield, who is the Professor of Public Health at Auckland University of Technology. He's also the director of the University's Human Potential Center, located at Millennium Campus up in Auckland. His interests lie with dealing with chronic disease and well being and prevention around degenerative diseases, obesity, metabolic disorders. He’s a very, very interesting man, he's written a number of books along with his team. I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation. We're pretty frank and upfront about our beliefs, and they’re very much aligned so I really enjoyed this talk with Professor Grant Schofield.
Before we head over to the show, just a reminder to check out our patron program,www.patron.lisatamati.com, and I'd also love you to check out our flagshipepigenetics program. Our epigenetics is all about understanding your own genes, and how to optimize them for your best health. So looking at areas from your food, to your exercise to the what times of the day to do things, your chronobiology, that's called looking at your mood and behavior, your what parts of the brain you use most dominantly, and this is a very powerful program that has changed really, hundreds of lives. We've now used it for a number of years in the corporate space, as well as in the athletic space, as well as with people dealing with different health issues. So if you want to find out more, go to lisatamati.com and hit the work with us button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program.
We've also got out Running Hot Coaching. Don't forget that,www.runninghotcoaching.comis the website to go for our online run training system. It's all personalized, customized to you to your next big goal, you get video analysis, a consult with me all in the basic package and plan for your next event, including everything from your strength to your mobility workouts, as well as your run sessions and advice around eating and mindset. So check that out at runninghotcoaching.com. Right, over to Professor Grant Schofield at the Millennium Center in Auckland.
Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today, I have a superstar. I have a guest that I'm really, really excited about speaking to because this is a very learned gentleman and an elite athlete and someone who I greatly admire. I have Professor Grant Schofield to guest. Welcome to the show. I’m glad to have you, Grant!
Prof Grant Schofield:Hey, Lisa. Yeah, thanks for having me. And, yeah, I've been following you from a distance for years. And you know, just enjoying your achievements love, and it's so great to have you on the show.
Lisa:And likewise in reverse. So thank you very much. It's a real honor. So today we, I reckon we just gonna dive into some of the stuff that you've been researching and what's on your mind at the moment, because you've got so many areas that I could go down, you know, looking at high fat diets and obesity and diabetes and prevention. Then we can look at the weight paper that you've just recently released, which I've, I just studied and went, ‘Wow, that was all about glutamate and toxicity and all that’. Well, that's new, that was all new to me. So which direction and firstly, give us a bit of an introduction to you in your background and your sporting career and all of that sort of stuff.
Grant:Yeah. So, like, I'd always, something that always interests me in my life is things that I was sort of good at, and I was only good at it because I like doing them was, not so much school, but science and biology. I just liked it. I just like learning about that stuff. I was right from the very start of school and this is just something that continued to happen. I also like doing sports. I was just like one of those kids who is into the sports and I was okay. It was like, every New Zealand kid plays rugby. I wasn't that great, but I played it, you know, I've got on the 15 rugby and all this sort of stuff and that sort of thing. And the school I said also had rowing as a sport, which Yeah, and they did a performance level. So it was to win the national championships. And they so, the crews I was in, trained hard. And there was high-performance aspects, as long as they were in hindsight of nutrition and psychology and training and the broad range of things that good teenage athletes get involved with.
Then of course, they don't finish as when you finish the school, and I sort of found myself, thought I’ll go to uni. My dad was an engineer and he thought I should go to, I wanted to go to do physical education. That was the main thing I was interested in, and my family sort of pulled me out of it and told me I should have gone to engineering. I lasted a week in there. It obviously wasn't for me. But I ended up in a degree studying physiology and psychology, just a science degree because that's what I found interesting. And then I went from, not really been that interested all of sudden getting these A-pluses. I didn't think I was brainy. But it was just, you know, I was just used to go to lectures, and not really take notes, and just listen and ask questions, and it was really interesting. But because I wasn't that mature, there was never a point in my life early on where I was like, Grant Schofield is now capable of getting a decent job where someone's going to employ him, and he's going to make some difference to the world. That wasn't a thing, right?
Lisa:Yeah.
Grant:So I couldn't finish this one degree and go and get a job because I wasn't capable of doing any work. I didn't think I could at the time. But that's the reality in hindsight, right? So. Of course, this is the early 90s. And this sport of triathlon was coming on the scene where I live in New Zealand, there was these great personalities like Erin Baker, another woman, Erin Christie, another one, Rick Wells, and, just to a young person, and then I ended up, you know, going out training with quite large, and a lot of these people, and I just got into the sport. The thing is about endurance, especially longer, it’s as you know, what, you need to be sort of mentally tough, the pain’s a lot softer than something like rowing or, or, you know, measuring 3,000 meters running or, you know, 400-800 meter swimming, these are sports with a piano actually does fall hard on you. And so that sort of softer pain of the—
Lisa:Softer, longer.
Grant:Longer.
Lisa:There's all the pains that come with it, yeah.
Grant: But it's more of a, it's more of a thinking person sport, right, because you get to work through that. Whereas, you know, in a 400-meter is something that you don't get to work through anything. It's just falling on you, the cut score is coming in. And so I really love that stuff. And so I just did more and more of I just want to do nothing but that. The mindset of the endurance ethic that just wants to do more and more and more. Luckily, I sort of carried on with my studies and then started my academic career. And then I became a psychologist, I'm actually quite useless at psychology because, mainly because I want to give people the answer. And of course, you know, good psychological counseling is about asking open-ended questions, reflective listening, and waiting for the client to come up with a solution, which is absolutely hopeless. As my wife would tell you—
Lisa:You’re an action orientated guy, like no, there is the solution here.
Grant:Yeah. This is why this is the problem for us. It's this sort that out. By then, by the early 2000s, when it really just dawned on us that our kids didn't look like we did when we were kids.
Lisa:Yeah.
Grant:You can look. I actually was reflecting on the other day, I looked at my photo of Twizel Primary School, Year One in 1974. And, yeah, by modern standards, people will be wondering if those kids are properly fed, why the teachers are so lean. And you compare that with a modern day Year One primary school class, or later, and it's a different world we lived in.
So that was the early 2000s, that world had unfolded, right? So didn't, wasn't the same.
Lisa:It’s scary.
Grant:And as fit as I used to be, they weren't the same shape they used to be and we wondered why. And so that was really the field that welcomed me, which was that topic of nutrition.
Lisa:Wow. So that’s where you got into, yeah.
Grant:Yeah, yeah, just didn't mean to. And then, you know, all of a sudden, I guess my research career’s followed my curiosity around the world. So when you're, when you've got young kids, you're interested in young kids. When you've got teenagers, youngsters, young teenagers, When I was racing, elite, high performance, triathlons, we're interested in that. And thankfully, being an academic, it allows you to, especially in my field, allows you the freedom to roam around those and understand those different things. So I've sort of had a, maybe it's a short concentration span, but effectively just a curiosity to keep rolling my research career and practice.
Lisa:It's really good that you can do that with an academic career sort of go go like this and still stay—
Grant:You can’t go off into sort of, you know, rocket propulsion or something, but, you know, yeah, as long as I stick it to the main things, which are being sort of fitness, nutrition, sleep, well being, then those sort of four things combined, have really been my wheelhouse. But in different, the settings, and the context seems to often change. And then you just, you'll do some work and you'll discover what you think an answer is, or not an answer is, it's a dead end or it's actually got places to go, then you're sort of done with it, and you're on to the next sort of variation of something.
So that's sort of been my life. So the latter stuff is really, we've done a lot of work on low-carb and keto diets, fasting, written quite a few books on that.
Grant:And yeah, yeah, and so that's been really interesting for me, you know, for, for reversing things like diabetes at one end of the spectrum, sort of net, sort of metabolic dysregulation, through to the other end of a high performance.
I'm an athlete, so I coach still, you know, being able to triple their ability to burn free fatty acids at a given intensity and really have a pretty much inexhaustible fuel supply. Before that, they would, you know, really run out of glycogen and struggle through the enjoyment and performance of an event. So—
Lisa:Let's start with that one, just if I may interrupt you there, because it's, you know, something that's fascinated me. When I was, you know, active career, I'd never become fat-adapted as an athlete. Your take is that, should endurance athletes be always fat-adapted? Or is it a genetic thing some people are good at, and some people are less so? What is your take on it now, like, given the knowledge that you have and the experience?
Grant:So I think that the normal human condition, if you wander up to a Paleolithic human before we started farming grains and wheat and stuff, that sort of hunter gatherers that they would have enjoyed this metabolic flexibility to use fat as a primary fuel source when are resting and moving around low intensities, and then as they got higher and higher intensity, then they would have supplemented that fat burning with extra energy produced from burning glucose in the body. But that doesn't exist. So commonly, and so we're just in the normal human state that lets you burn fat in some circumstances, and carbs and fat in other circumstance.
But if you went down to the local Westfield shopping mall and went to the food hall, and you you bought all those people up to my lab and put them on our metabolic card and measured there, because you can measure both breath by breath gas analysis and understand whether they've been in primarily fat or carbohydrate or whatever mix of. So we do that sort of graded exercise tissue stop at risk, just breathing into the tube. The machine’s analyzing fat and carb burning, and as you increase your intensity, like running speed or power on the bike, then you just see this greater change.
Now, your average person off the street in the food hall doesn't burn fat, even at rest. So they’re metabolically inflexible. Yep. And then the question is, can you train that? And can you train that even on high performance athletes? I think the answer is yes, and I'll give you a good example. There's a young fellow I trained, Matt Kurt and what I mean, saying this. I've trained him for a few years now. So he came from a CrossFit background. He was a fit young man. Yeah, he would be eating mostly carbs, actually.
Lisa:Yeah, we were all told back in the day.
Grant:Yeah, totally. So he wanted me to help him prepare for an Ironman triathlon. And so I started training him and say, on an April one year so over in New Zealand winter, didn't really mention diet, because we couldn't seem to get to that but we sort of got on the on the idea that he had to go bike riding, and what running would look like, and it was learning the sports. And by December, he did his first triathlon, which was a 70.3, sort of half Ironman, with a view to going through the Ironman in New Zealand three months later and beginning of March, and he did pretty well actually, like it came fourth overall in the amateurs, so he is talented young man, and he’s a swimmer. He could hit a bike, he could run a bit. But I knew he was a cub and I was like, I need to put you in my lab and we need to measure your fuel burning on that.
So in early December, we got them in there and his peak fat oxidation was about half a gram, a minute, at about 165 watts in the box. So it's not very good power, output is not going to be very fast. And he's only getting because a gram of fat has about nine calories, he’s spending half of one of those a minute over 60 minutes. He’s got about 400 to 500 calories an hour available from fat, and you know, he's going to be racing at 1200 calories an hour.
Lisa:Yeah.
Grant:So over several hours, yeah. He's simply is going to run into all sorts of trouble, because he's got this deficit of 800 calories an hour, he needs to find from glucose. He's got probably 2000 calories that he's got in his muscles and liver. He can consume another couple of 100 by eating gels and stuff, or bananas or something. So he's woefully short. And so it means he can just make a half, I mean, over four hours. We probably have eight or nine hours, he's going to grovel home. He’s going to be a really bad mess. And that's what you see. It's always frustrated me. I got things like Ironman Triathlon, they sort of, 8-15 hour events, or 17 hour events for people.
And I think the saddest thing for me is, first of all this, two thirds of the fittest still mimics the general population, which is overweight.
Lisa:Yeah.
Grant:And virtually all of them run out of glucose or glycogen and their body, sometimes during the bike or shortly into the run. And so the whole marathon experience for them is a very unpleasant affair.
They don't like doing it, they finally make it, it's been a real drain on, and they've had so much support from their friends and family over that preparation period, and it was all avoidable. So with Matt, within a mile, we're like, what this is going to happen with you, Matt. So we're stuck on a strict keto diet for three weeks, his training over that period was fairly low intensity, we didn’t really go for any intensity up until after the new year period. And then just sit them on to Iron Man training, and that includes his long run and his long bike which he did weekly, and I've been doing them fasted. Yeah, so with just water. People find that a little bit extreme but his intensity is really low. We'd go out and do you know, like a six hour bike in the end that with no food, and he’d be fine.
Lisa:And that’s the thing, you're adapted.
Grant:You get adapted. And so going back into the lab just before Iron Man, and he’d improved his maximum fat oxidation from half a gram a minute at 165 watts or something, to 1.1 grams a minute at 260 watts.
Lisa:Wow.
Grant:So now he's able to supply 800 calories an hour from fat, and he can do it at 260 watts, which is actually a reasonably competitive pair out, but he's going to get along at you know, 39, 40 calories an hour.
Lisa:Wow.
Grant:And yeah, and so in his first, second ever triathlon, in his first Iron Man, he does, he finishes, I don't know, the top 10 and 9 hours 22. So good effort.
Lisa:That’s amazing.
Grant:Yeah, we come back the next year, now with a bit more training on his belt, and he can he manages 8 hours 50. Wow. And this year, he comes back and he wins the entire age group race by half an hour, breaks the course record by seven minutes and does 8:27. And I got him back in the lab straight after that. And what we saw as further fed adaptation over that two-year period, so now he is able to burn 1.8 grams a minute of fat at 310 watts, and that's an astonishing power output. So 310 watts, yeah, you're doing 42 Ks an hour, on a decent course. And that's, he rode 4 hours 29 480 Ks, it's an astonishing time, especially for a guy who's working full time as a teacher.
Lisa:That's insane.
Grant:So that's what we mean by being metabolically flexible, and, and becoming a real fat-burning machine.
Lisa:But what about the arguments about you know, I mean, keto diet is a very difficult diet for people to, if we're talking about the general population now, and it's quite a hard diet to stick to, long term. What about adherence to things? Do you have to be strictly keto? Do you have to be really low on your carbs in order to get the ketones and be in ketosis and to get this fat adaptation? Is there any middle ground? Can you—
Grant:Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a great question. I mean, the series of questions you got there, Lisa, are just crucial. And the answer is, initially getting into that. as I'm, for that three, it's very strict. And so that's three weeks. After that, it's very much cyclical. So we generate nutritional ketosis and fat burning by fasted long workouts. And on other cases during the week, we're adding carbohydrates quite a bit. So it's definitely not a strict ketogenic diet at all. And we'll have off periods where he's just eating whatever. In fact, I have trouble trying to get him off the ketone to be a bit more loose, frankly. But that's, that's an athlete, not a normal human, in that sense. This is why I introduced the idea of fasting and intermittent fasting and I'm quite keen on that. And for me, what the fast what I tried to sort of mimic what I felt was an easy, sustainable, cyclical way for me to eat that generated fat burning.
Lisa:And pursued it with autophagy? We're all talking about intermittent fasting and I do it like an intermittent fasting, a short-ish intermittent fasting. Is that going to this, I'm not gonna get into ketosis doing an intermittent fasting.
Grant:So I just, I would do this sort of pattern of Sunday, try and be reasonably good on the low carb, just eat whatever I wanted. But try and be okay with it. Monday, do some restricted eating windows. So you know, might be, a longest window. Someone who's experienced like me, I could just have one meal that day, and the Tuesday I just did the same thing. So you know, and when I hit a meal I made sure it was super filling, super nutritious, I was calling that super meals. So that's my, that's my Monday and Tuesday, my hard parts of the week, right I worked hard and I concentrated hard on my freshly generated nutritional ketosis. By Monday lunchtime, despite the weekend, Saturday being quite poor, I was back in full ketosis.
I made a bit of an effort, I managed to sort of hang on to some stuff with no real particular restriction but trying to keep the carbs down for Wednesday, Thursday. By the end of Friday, everything had sort of gone pretty loose. And Saturday it was, could be, sometimes off the route is completely out of nutritional ketosis and plenty of carbs, even the odd bit of alcohol, which I'm not encouraging, by the way, but that just seems to happen sometimes.
Lisa:Yeah. And we've got to live, too,
Grant:Yeah, yeah. So I'd be completely out of ketosis and in no shape for that at all. But by Monday morning, I'll be back in again. So I just get this period.
Lisa:So you can do that. It's been my question today is like, do I, if I go to keto, you know, go the keto diet. Do you have to do it as a religion? This is me. And then you get people like Dave Asprey and and if you read his book,Fast This Way, and that, he talks about cyclic keto, and how that's even better than just being straight keto, because keto itself can have some negative benefits.
Dr Grant:Yeah, I completely agree. And so unless you're wanting to be on keto, for some sort of therapeutic resume, I said, you know, glioblastoma, brain cancer or brain injury like a TBI, I think so. Interesting thing, some other cancers, or you're in chemotherapy, then I don't see any reason to be in that state all the time. But the point is having a bit of bollock machinery to be able to be and easily get in and out. My hypothesis is the Paleolithic one, which is really that humans are metabolically flexible, it's the normal human condition and to see modern humans that have really lost their orchestration of the metabolism to, to burn fat as a primary fuel sources as a sort of denying your own humanity type situation without being too dramatic about it, really.
Lisa:But yeah, if we, I was reading one of your blogs, and you hit another, Dr Lisa Te Morenga, I think it was, saying, oh, but you know, like, if we look at from an evolutionary perspective, the caveman because this is an argument that I've had with people too, oh, but the cavemen didn't live very long, so therefore, it's not a good diet. To say that that's, but that's not a bit that helped us survive till now. You know, like we—
Grant:I think that’s a complete straw man of an argument, by the way.
Lisa:Yeah, I think so too.
Grant:I mean, I think, you know, I mean, first of all, while the average lifespan, is fairly low for people, it’s just for other reasons!
Lisa:It’s for other reasons.
Grant:So if you didn't have those reasons, your actual survival was pretty good. And actually, the important thing to remember is that Paleolithic humans didn't have chronic disease. So they didn't have this, these, what is it a New Zealand at the moment, 12 years of disability in their life before they died, which, so subtract 12 off your lifespan, to get your health span, to health span, span with the same thing. And also question about that.
Lisa:We don't have infant mortality, like they did. And we didn't have lions chasing us, and we've got all these other things that make us live longer. But now we have to take even more care of our metabolic state, in order that we don't have these long term. And I mean, I've been living with the consequences of mom's metabolic disorders, leading to an aneurysm, for the past five years, and trying to undo the damage. You know, what I'm talking about is like, in that decline that we see with so many people for over decades, sometimes, and it's just a horrific way to go out for starters.
Grant:You know, I don't think anyone, if you ask them when they're in good health, about how they want the rest of their life to track, says they want to be in poor health with a low health span. I don't think that's a topic that people raise as being a good thing.
Lisa:No.
Grant:It's my experience. When I ask even people who aren't doing many healthy behaviors of what they want, then they'll say health, family, friends and happiness, whatever that means. But they, yeah,
Lisa:yeah. And I think this is the discussion that we need to be having, so that we find out what the optimum diet is. People I know, I've struggled with my diet over the years. One of the reasons I started running was because I wanted to eat more, because I love food. And then, then I suddenly, at some point, I realized, this hypothesis of calories in calories out is absolute bullshit. This isn't working and that really came to you know, people who hear my podcasts and hear me say when I ran through New Zealand, and I just suddenly woke up. I was running 500 kilometers a week. Yeah, and I was getting fatter because I was in a complete state of chaos. You know, my hormones were up, my water retention, all of that sort of—
Grant:High amount of inflammation, probably.
Lisa:Huge amounts of inflammation. And I ended up flaccid, losing muscle mass and getting fatter and having a slower metabolic rate. I could have sat on the couch and eaten chips and gotten better, you know, in shape?
Grant:Yeah.
Lisa:So that's when a light bulb went for me, and then it also had other reasons like genetically I'm not really made for the long distance stuff, I'm more the high intensity, shorter, sharper, is more suited to me. So I was doing that wrong as well, because some people, it's better to be doing the long. But I think having these discussions where we really dig in, and you've done the research, you know, what, from an evolutionary perspective, what we need to be eating. The state of our food now is horrific. Then you, you add into all that the whole addictive nature of all the stuff and the additives, or preservatives, the MSGs for all of the sugars that are added to our phones, and people are up against it. Like, you know, you can’t even—
Grant:Yeah, I agree. Those two topics that might be worth going into those, I've got two—
Lisa:Yes, please.
Grant:—sort of bases, working in both those areas, the first you mentioned, like you go out, the state of our food supply. So what we've been doing recently is we've been going to primary schools around the place. And we've been taking photos of all the year sixes’ lunchboxes. And whatever you think, particularly on what we call that social gradient, that sort of tipping of rich versus poor at the bottom end of that, whatever you think the food supply’s like, I don't care what you think about how bad it is. It's worse than you think.
Lisa:Yeah.
Grant:I actually cried, I actually physically cried.
Lisa:That’s what our kids are getting to eat every day.
Grant:Yeah, and how that's not a priority. Just remember that the biggest cost to our healthcare system for our kids is having to anesthetize them to extract teeth because they're rotten at age five, and we can't walk around too much if they're not anesthetized. So yeah, I mean, what society treats its most vulnerable like that? Just one little rant: in kids healthcare, we have to go and do fundraising and buy raffle tickets to pay for the hospitals for kids. And we don’t do that with adults. That sort of fundraising for that is despicable. It's not a government that cares.
Lisa:Not to mention the whole bloody ambulance service.
Grant:Yeah, there’s all of that, wouldn’t I fund that? There’s all of that stuff as well. So that's just a mess of how, frankly, Ad the second thing is I've got another student who's just really got into this, the addiction side of food. And as a former psychologist, she goes through and look at the, some, you know, use this Diagnostic and Statistical Manual DSM, DSM-5 is the latest version, which is a way of characterizing disorders.
And you look at the substance misuse disorder, which is really around addictions. And you know, if you change the word alcohol or methamphetamine or tobacco for sugar, yeah, then, you know, the sorts of things you know, sometimes feel withdrawal sometimes. I eat more than I should change unprofessional behavior and makes things worse in my life. You go across all 11 criteria, and you go, Yeah, it's pretty plausible. That's a real thing. Yeah. And the thing is, with addictions, of course, is that people go because everyone is not addicted to it, doesn't mean it's not a thing. So there's this, there's a lot of alcohol drunk where people don't turn into alcoholics It doesn't mean there's not such a thing as alcoholics. And there's, you know, for many people, it becomes a substance they can't control using and I feel the same things about sugar in your ultra processed food in general really.
Lisa:Yeah. And the sugar I mean, the I mean like people like you I know you've done a lot of work with a Pacific Island population and Maori and so on, we have a predisposition to you know, not being able to cope with the sugars and more cardiovascular disease and more metabolic disorders. So even more Prater the stuff because we've already and haven't had I don't know hundreds of years of of having it to a certain degree in I mean, I've struggled no sugar is definitely one of those things that is one of the hardest addictions I think, not that I've been addicted to anything else but it's a bloody hard addiction to to get rid of and stay on top of.
Grant:Something like smoking or alcohol like the absence of is part of it is hard but just slightly easier because it's contained whereas sugar’s so ubiquitous in the food supply, you can't stop it. It's very hard, you know, all of a sudden you put some chili sauce on your something and you're damn near 75% sugar, you know, like?
Lisa:You don't even realize it unless you start baking them and making everything from scratch.- And then you know, not to mention all the MSGs and the additives, preservatives, emulsifiers that are you know, destroying our guts and causing us to want more. I mean, there's a real reason why you can't eat one chip. If you eat one chip, you've eaten the packet,
Grant:Well, that's certainly my experience. But strangely, and I had an argument with a dietitian the other day about this, there's a total open quote and short of eating. And it's like her hypothesis was, well, the whole reason we I was like, Look, there's no point having salted chips in my house, because they’ll last five minutes, I’ll eat the whole lot. Yes. Oh, no, no, no, the way you should overcome that is just have dozens of packets on there and just eat yourself silly and then you'll get over it. That’s just bullshit in my experience
Lisa:Pretty much done that, and that didn't work. That doesn't work. I've heard that theory too. I think that's absolute rubbish, and not something that I'd recommend for starters, because you're gonna start on an either like, that's like, you know, a little bit good, then we must have just have some more.
Yeah.
Lisa:That's ridiculous. Really, they still think that.
You know there's a whole movement?
You're kidding? Okay. But how do we help people? Because people are unaware of the addictive nature of their food and we're so like, I don't have a big garden full of organic veggies. I never time, all the knowledge and I used to having my dad used to do my garden and then it was good. But now I don't. Most of us don't have access to good quality foods.
What the hell do we do? We go into a supermarket and it's just so easy to pick up a pre-made sauce, you know, tomato sauce, or Bolognese sauce instead of, you know, buying a bloody lot of tomatoes and making it. But yeah, but we've fallen into this trap. And now we're addicted all of us. Because the big food industry wants you to eat more of its crap.
Grant:Yeah, they've conspired both on research and practice. And then just in all practical ways. In fact, I wrote a paper with a couple of superstars actually a guy, Aseem Malhotra, who's a cardiologist, in London, and Rob Lustig, who's pretty famous, a pediatric endocrinologist from San Francisco about the the tricks that the food industry has pulled, which are pretty much the exact same ones as Big Tobacco have over the years, you know, creating bogus interest groups, false advocacy, sponsoring athletes, list goes on.
Lisa:I’m a part of that machinery, unfortunately, you know, when I was a young athlete being sponsored by Coca Cola—
Grant:I didn't, I was told, I was told not to come back to, I'm in New Zealand. I spoke there one time, a couple of years ago, because I had to guard the sponsors product, which was Nutrigrain, Kellogg's Nutrigrain, which is four and a half staff health rating food, that's, you know, a third sugar. It's just a disgrace. Yeah, that was not welcome again.
Lisa:When you see famous sports teams, I won’t name any, but they're nutritionists on the telly telling you to eat stuff that really is not what you want your kids eating. And you’re like, ‘Wow, that's wrong on so many levels’, you know?
Grant:I’ll tell you a story about that. I don’t know if I should tell this story. Years ago, I gave this talk on a sort of update on physical activity and health for the first-time executives of Coca Cola over this Waipuna Lodge in Auckland. I'd finished my talk, I was just at the back.And the head and corners inand go on. The next guy that got was a corporate guy from the US about how they're going to discredit various nutrition people and active tactics. I went around, and I sort of sat there and listened to it. And I was like, ‘Oh’, and then about halfway through, I was like, ‘Shit, I'll make sure I get out of here alive’. Yeah, but there was like an active discussion about, about the tactics to deal with scientists who were dissonant to the view, to the worldview, which I thought was a really interesting,
Lisa:This is a reality. And this is what's happening not only in the food industry, it's also happening in the pharmaceutical industry. It's also happening in many industries that we in the public are not, and when you've got people like you that are brave enough to stand up and say stuff, you get attacked. I'm quite surprised that my podcast hasn't been taken off here yet. But anyway.
Grant:Yeah, that's right. And yeah, it will heavily wind but people will be, there’s forces in play there. You don't want to get too conspiratorial because it sometimes requires a degree of organization that doesn't, that we’re capable of, but yeah, I think in the food industry case and pharmaceutical industry, the evidence has been there for a long time.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah. And I think, my approach to it now is like, we are possible, light a candle toward the good information rather than fighting and banging your head against the, you know, because otherwise you can end up in a very bad place. But okay, so we know that there's all these addictive forces, if you like, at play. And so because you just look around town, you know, in the obesity and they are boys they’re looking like girls and, you know, the hormone regulation is just obviously affected and fertility rates are going down. We're fighting a war here, and we've got kids that are already diabetic and before they're even teenagers, and this is a coming huge disaster for the healthcare system when you’re in public health.
Grant:Yeah, yeah. The present one that I've become much more interested in because it's, I think it's become more obvious today for a bunch of reasons. I'll tell you a few stories as mental health, particularly Youth Mental Health. I've been an academic for a few decades. And, you know, a decade ago or two decades ago, okay, students will get seconds, some would have some mild mental health problems, but it wasn't really a thing that you would see very much. Now at the moment, all the time I get students, students like it's dropping out of the degree now because of their mental health.
They've got anxiety. And these are really smart, intelligent, switched-on people with, these are the top of the socioeconomic ladder, we don’t know how much worse it is at the bottom. I didn't even get there in the first place. That youth suicide rate in New Zealand, it keeps getting talked about as the tip of an iceberg for a major problem. One of the women that I work with, mid-20s, beautiful, intelligent woman. Yeah, we're talking about SSRIs, antidepressants, because I've been on those I could have knocked me over I said, are, you know, is it a common thing for your friend group and that sort of thing? She goes, I pretty much everyone I know is on them. Yeah, yeah. And, and so we've got this—
Lisa:It’s a good sequence, isn’t it?
Grant:Because the brains are metabolic. We've got a metabolic crisis with obesity and diabetes, but guess what? The most important metabolic organ is your brain. Somehow, again, here we are, asleep at the wheel, we've got this, you've got this treatment gap. So even if we could treat them with anything effective, which is doubtful. From our current system, yeah, they can only treat half the half of the 910,000 people in the country of 5 million. Because 910,000 is the number of serious mental health problems. Wow. Half of them don't get any treatment whatsoever, because there is no treatment. You bring the mental health crisis line, which we've had to do. And they will say, are they killing themselves right now? And that's just like, no, that's like—
Lisa:‘Okay, we've got time.’
Grant:Yeah, then okay, we're not doing it, I think. And we'll go to your doctor. If you go to your doctor, you know that there's a nine month wait to see a psychologist?. It’s just unacceptable.
Lisa:And what's the answer? The course, the easy answer for the doctor is to give them a SSRI.
Grant:Which doesn't work very well. No. neuroplasticity, if they're a young person, causes them harm.
Lisa:Closes down hormones. And does it different.
Grant:Yeah, 100%.
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Grant:So to me, the unacknowledged metabolic crisis here we can see obesity. We can measure diabetes. Yeah, and those are problems. But you know, to me the most perverse one, especially having, you know, teenage kids myself and that sort of thing is this youth mental health thing. It's despicable. Like my dad, yeah, good for him. He had metastatic prostate cancer and was sorted with this keto diet, but the amount of access to expensive treatment, he was able to get in his 80s. Compared to a young woman in her early 20s, who has a serious mental health problem that's going to affect her, and even around for the rest of their lives, who can get none. It's perverse, who spends their money on health that way? Yeah, like, I want my dad to get his treatment and get better and everything, which he has, but, what sort of society prioritizes that over these young people?
Lisa:Yeah, and what can we do? Like why, there is a lot of I mean, I talk research a lot, and I know that your research is also pointing in this direction, that there's a lot of health fundamentals that we can get right, that can actually help people without costing anything even, without having to be a pharmacological intervention. How about we try to teach people how to manage themselves? And I mean, I've had, I was on antidepressants for over 20 years, and I could not get off them, because they are addictive. It took me three years to get off them, and thank God I did. I, in my early 20s, had relationship crises, was put on them, just stayed on them because I didn't know any better.
What are, what implications that’s had for me, and then trying to get off them. And of course, your body starts to downregulate your own if you're not producing your own. I've got off them now, and I'm fine, and so on, and I'm helping other family members off them. But that was the first port of call. Now I understand the need for health fundamentals like sleep, hygiene, and movement, and exercise, and sunshine, and the right diet, because diet is a huge piece of the puzzle, because your gut and your brain are connected. And there's a lot of, like you say, a fix. When you have a bad diet, and you have bad nutrition, you're going to have more mental instability, if you want to put it that way, you're going to have more problems, than if you're on a good, really robust, solid, good diet. That's going to affect your mental health. And what are our kids, they're not giving any of that information, or any programs around it.
Grant:Yeah, and you interfere with one aspect of metabolic homeostasis with an antidepressant, and you're surprised that it doesn't work very well, and there’s unintended consequences. What we're trying to do is, and humans, I think, all want to be in the state, we're trying to return ourselves to a sort of metabolic homeostasis where things are balanced and well-regulated. For the most of the body, that's the primary target, there is a sugar in your blood and the insulin in your blood, because if those aren't right, then you're an inflammatory environment and pro-growth and no chance to, you know, being that autophagy of tightening things up. So that's the big metabolic picture. But in the brain, I've just started to stitch together a much more, I think coherent view of what's going on.
Because the balance of neurotransmitters in the brain is important. I just think with the low fat revolution, we pick fat, not carbohydrates. We pick the wrong one of the three. Yeah, well, this is alright, we pick serotonin as the neurotransmitter to manage, we need to get it back to where it started more quickly. That's what reuptake inhibitors do. And actually, sorry?
Lisa:You've written a paper recently on glutamate and its role in all this. Can you explain about it?
Grant:I have, six months ago, I had heard of glutamate because I, trying to, from psychology, and frankly, I'd forgotten what it did. Until one of my smart students reminded me that glutamate is the most important and most prevalent excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. It's about 90% of your neurotransmitters, it runs in tandem with an inhibitory system called GABA. And so these two things operate together. The inhibition fine tunes the excitation. And not only that, the glutamate gets recycled onto glutamine and then back into GABA and they rely on one another to be in a sort of, you know, good, healthy relationship, right?
And so what happens is, when there's over-excitation, which chronic stress does, then glutamate because it's excitatory neurotransmitters, just keeps getting pumped out. Pumped out, pumped out, and it hits its receptor in the other side of the synapse, between neurons. That receptor, it's called the NMDA receptor, it's downregulated. So it stops seeing the glutamate as much as it could be, which causes even more glutamate to be produced. And then this glutamate starts to seep out of that cleft and to just general space. And the trouble with it—
Lisa:It's toxic.
Grant:It’s toxic, and this is called glutamate excitotoxicity. So this is not a theory, this is a thing. And it starts to kill brain cells, and the trouble with it, first of all it atrophies neurons, which is never good, and they're not there anymore when they die. But those dying neurons themselves spill out glutamate, into more glutamate into the space, and you get this downward spiral of—
Lisa:Neurodegeneration.
Grant:Neurodegeneration, exactly right. And so the most interesting thing in my mind about this, and this is why I'm so excited about it is because, and you'll see this. So the most obvious is a concussion or mild TBI, traumatic brain injury, is that what causes your initial brain cell death is just an insult, right? You bang your head, right? So you get that glutamate excitotoxicity. The initial effects of the concussion is mild, but the long-term effects of the concussion because of the glutamate excitotoxicity are severe. That's why concussions get worse and worse and worse for time after they've happened.
Lisa:Okay, thanks that somebody's saying that! Because people go to the hospitals with a concussion and they go, no, there's, you've had a mild concussion, go home and rest. And that's it. It's like we there's so much we can do—
Grant:100% there's so much we can do. And I think we already do it when it gets really severe, right? So if you're in hospital with ischemia, lack of oxygen in the brain from a heart attack, or sometimes in some hospitals, that neonatal hypoxia, so newborns become deprived of oxygen. One way that they deal with that is they induce hypothermia, because cold exposure, especially in those areas, helps reduce glutamate. And they provide intravenous magnesium because magnesium antagonises as a receptor and allows glutamate to get back to its homeostatic levels more quick, and it's highly effective. And the animal studies are very, very convincing. And it's near a clinical practice for things like spinal cord injury.
And then you start to think about other ways that the brain gets damaged. So Alzheimer's and dementia is an interesting one. So for other reasons, including high glucose, we start to lose brain cells. But as soon as you start to do a little bit excitotoxicity, then exacerbates the problem massively. A mild or severe stress, which results in post traumatic stress disorder, is another way of damaging the brain initially through chronic, elevated glutamate but it rolls onto itself. And this is solved, then it's not a problem.
Lisa:This is why stress and trauma—
Grant:And chronic stress, you’re just stressed out, your fight or flight response is up more than it should. And it goes on a long time. The two to three minutes that it's designed to be up for is actually days, months, years, same thing. And so you've got these different pathways, getting brain damage.
Lisa:Brain damage is happening as well.
Grant:When you take, if you if you scan people with major depressive disorder, you autopsy people who've committed suicide, then you see severe atrophy and things like the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, important areas. And it's caused by chromatic toxicity. But the reason why that's interesting is that there's a lot you can do about it. And so we mentioned cold water therapy, just getting in cold water, especially you can breathe slowly and deeply through your nose, which downregulates the nervous system, as medical therapy for depression, right? Yeah. So and potentially I think for TBI and concussion and Alzheimer's and that sort of thing, because it helps with that.
But so is aerobic exercise for the same reason. So is a whole range of nutrient supplements, particularly magnesium, particularly you have to take them in the form of magnesium citrate or magnesium l-threonate. And the clinical trials of magnesium citrate and depression is a more effective medication than an antidepressant. And there is no real side effects. So magnesium, zinc, omega-3 fish oils, B complex vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin D, all anti-inflammatory, antioxidant type.
Lisa:And all stuff that I'm on every day, and my mum's on with her brain injury on, all the time.
Grant:That's right, because and they are downregulating glutamate transmission and achieving a glutamate GABA balance in a better way, as does presence of ketones in your blood occasionally, as does any sort of diet that’s anti-inflammatory, and any diet that's inflammatory, exacerbates the problem. So—
Lisa:So for things like brain injuries, like someone like mom who was in a coma and they were putting a ba- basically a glucose strip into the, you know, into feeding tubes. That's just like causing more damage than if we'd had ketones present if we'd had—
Grant:100%, because you're, there's also a fuel cri- an accompanying fuel crisis on the brain where it can't—
Lisa:Uptake the glucose.
Grant:—uptake the glucose in the normal fashion, but you can use ketones. So you've got the glutamate part going on, and you've got the glucose fuel crisis. So you know—
Lisa:And isn't the same with Alzheimer's, and they, it's a, when you get insulin resistance, you also get the glucose not being able to be uptaken in the brain, and therefore the brain starving for glucose.
Prog Grant:Yeah. So ketogenic diet for that group is actually a pretty therapeutic diet, that would be the one situation that would be, you know, granted, for keto is hard. I mean, obviously, it's a hard population group to work with them on that, but that doesn’t make it not therapeutic. That's another whole—
Lisa:No, and that's what I put, you know, like with mum’s brain injury, once I started to realize that from the research I was doing. I was doing I had her on as good as possible, keto diet for that first couple of years. Not so much now, because she's got autonomy so it’s harder regulate. But she does do intermittent fasting, and she has got all the supplements, and she has got a very, low-carb diet, as much as I can get it to do it, when she’s not sneaking things around my back. But this is just so crucial for all of these degenerative diseases, and I'm really excited about this glutamate thing, because it's only just come on my radar through your research, and I think that this is perhaps gonna go to the next level. Are you continuing the research on this?
Grant:Yeah, and I'm really interested in, I haven't been that interested in micronutrients through my career. I sort of felt while you're eating whole foods, you know, that should be the template. And I still think that, but I increasingly started to think, especially my colleague, Julia Ruckledge, who's a professor of psychology at University of Canterbury, in her work with micronutrients. She uses fairly high doses, but how effective those have been in her clinical trials with various aspects of mental health. And just as I see also random other outcomes like they just happened to be doing a clinical trial when the Christchurch earthquake happened, and they're only halfway through it. So the randomization wasn't quite complete.
They noticed at the end of the trial that the people in the micronutrient supplementation group, about 19% of those ended up with some sort of post traumatic stress from the Christchurch earthquake.
Lisa: Yep.
Grant:Those without, who are in the placebo group, 69% have post traumatic stress. And this is consistent with other research around, you know, the stress of natural disasters, natural disasters, and that sort of thing. And all sorts of things go wrong in the brain. And it's just, there's a mess of effects. If you could get this from a pharmaceutical, the pharmaceutical company would be all over it. But, you know, inexpensive micronutrients. So, you're interested in those really.
Lisa:So that improves your resilience. Basically, you've got the right vitamins and minerals and things in your body to do the work that's needed to be required. Have you ever heard about the research of ketamine and post traumatic stress? When that ketamine is able to stop the formation of the memories, the traumatic-ness if that's a word?
Grant:Yeah, so, so yes, yeah.
Lisa:Because it's part of that there'll be part of that glutamate thing, wouldn’t it?
Grant:Ketamine is, antagonizes the NDMA receptor, as the same mechanism magnesium roles a play, plays a role on. And so ketamine is a little bit more of a difficult substance to think about it because it's an analgesic and it's sort of that pre-anesthetic and acidic and it really spaces people out. But you're right across PTSD, single treatments have been shown to be highly effective. Single treatments with major depressive or otherwise intractable have shown to be temporarily effective. The most interesting one, for me, I was just talking to an ethicist the other day about this. He was talking about ketamine with chronic pain sufferers, and about half of the people they treat with ketamine with chronic pain, they have an instant and complete alleviation of the chronic pain. And they give them ketamine at a subclinical dose for five straight days. I don't know the ins and outs of that.
Lisa:Because it stops the pathways from—
Grant:I don’t know what, I’m thinking of. Re, re —
Lisa:Receptors.
Grant: —re-tokenizes the receptors, and they go into my pathway for a start, which is the only real known mechanism amongst possible other things, but again, it's astonishing right? So this is otherwise incurable life debilitating chronic pain. Five days of treatment of the subclinical dose, you're not unconscious, you probably can't drive around, but it's gone, not there now. So ketamine is an interesting one. And equally, there's other interesting antagonists of that receptor, which, I am obviously no expert, but other people are starting to do the work and unfortunately become illegal drugs, like some of the solutions like psilocybin magic mushrooms, and, there’s are ayahuasca ceremony type things in South America.
Lisa:I hope they didn’t keep researching those. Just because they're drugs doesn't mean that they haven’t got therapeutic benefits.
Grant:So they have potential therapeutic benefits. And to understand that I think it's going to be that's, people will follow that, however I won't be doing any of that research, of course, but someone will be, and it'll be interesting to follow that as it unfolds. And you understand, just to finish it, and US in the 60s, all that came out. I was there, no one knew what to do with these drugs. So they just made them illegal, which is, you understand at that time, but probably needs to make another think about that.
Lisa:They do. So when we, so all of these things from things like Alzheimer's, to brain injuries, to stre-, chronic stress, to big stressful life events, all cause an excess of glutamate, is that correct?
Grant:Yeah. Because it's just overexcitation. Because it's the excitatory system, and you're overproducing and you haven't got a pathway.
Lisa:So you're in a sympathetic state, you're in a fight or flight response.
Grant:Yes, correct. And then it'll get there. And some of those are, just because there's, well, not the traumatic brain injury and the Alzheimer's aren't because of that. There's other reasons that they branch off. But for the PTSD, for the depression, for the, you know, chronic stress sufferer.
Lisa:This is why stress, one of the reasons why stress is just so damaging to us, isn't it?
Grant:Yeah, we weren't designed for long-term stress. We're designed for acute fight or flight.
Lisa:Yep, yep. And then be now, this is why I think there were the research and information around how to turn on your parasympathetic nervous system at will, breath work, cold therapies, or, saunas, heat therapies, all of these things that we can do to manage our stress levels, because which, you know, stress is probably not going to go away anytime soon. We've got these incredibly stressful lives that we lead now, with thousands of jobs that we have to do and things and things like when my dad passed away eight months ago, that was a stressor I couldn't control.
Grant:It's life, isn't it? Stressors evolve.
Lisa:And that's, I’ve lived a mess of post traumatic stress that, so I'm interested in all this research on how do I undo that damage, if you like? Yeah. How do I how do I manage it? This sort of stuff is really interesting.
Grant:I just think you know that the mainstream medicinal effects of cold therapy, hot therapy, and breath work, especially nasal breathing are now sufficiently well established to be mainstream. These are normal things to engage in your daily life, to manage your life.
Lisa:Absolutely, yeah. I think nasal breathing the work I don't know if you know, Patrick McKeown and James Nestor and stuff, they just absolutely amazing work that and information that we can put into our daily lives to help cope, or to help us cope with this stress that we're under, and the bad food even, can all help, and athletic performance.
Grant:And I love about those guys with that stuff, they've actually, they haven't tried to dumb down the science from the late for the lay public. They treat them with the respect that they deserve, and they just translate it into an understandable manner, but they don't dumb it down. They give you the full noise.
Lisa:I love that.
Grant:I love that. I just think, it's like I ate three plus servings of vegetables and fruit and exercise half an hour a day, and not too much gardening or do it. It's just bullshit. It's just treating us with disdain, and not with the deserve I respect, and respect that we deserve. For where’s the science in that? Now I actually get fitter, the more the better. As long as you manage it. It’s pretty friggin, like, why do they not. And I see cancer patients getting told, I just want to eat whatever makes you feel good.
Lisa:Oh, no.
Grant:No, I want the best possible information. Thank you.
Lisa:Yes. And not eating cookies while you're having chemo. You know, and that's what they're doing. And it's just like, do you not? Are you not aware? Have you looked at them for metabolic you know, approach to—
Grant:Often, the excuse that, the excuse that Lisa is, are well, they won't do it so there's no point telling them. That’s just not good enough, right?
Lisa:I know, and that is just treating you, and I've experienced this unfortunately firsthand, treating you like an idiot because you're not a professor.
Grant:Yeah.
Lisa:Just because I don't have a ‘professor’ in front of my name does not mean I'm an idiot. And don't treat me like an idiot as if I don't know anything and that is unfortunately the way you get treated in the system.
Grant:The health system’s not good for that. And they try and use jargon to bamboozle.
Lisa:Yeah. Doesn't work with me. And that's not fair.
Grant:Yeah.
Lisa:When I'm teaching people or working with people, I find that it's absolutely crucial that I explain the mechanisms of action behind why I'm giving you this information. And I try to keep it to a level that I don't overwhelm people, but I want them to understand why they're doing this in order to make, because then they're more likely to go, ‘Ah, actually, I get it now’. Just telling you that stress is bad for you, you should meditate for a day, but I don't tell you why. What are the mechanisms, and what is this actually doing in your body, then you're less likely to do it, you know?
Grant:Just today, and the reason I'm late with you is that I had a group of first year electrical apprenticeships. Young guys from 17 to 20 here at university, and we did today's Stafford is a fitness stuff with them, but I did a bunch of content. You know, frankly, I can get my master's level. These are smart guys. Probably they're interested in it. That's great. Yeah, and no one's treated them like that, they never had got tread lightly by some of the teachers office at school. They didn't get interested in those areas. But you know, like—
Lisa:Yeah, let's treat people as if they have got a brain in the head. Just because they don't know the jargon. You can explain the jargon. And when you understand, one of my great podcast loves at the moment isProfessor Andrew Huberman, you know him from The Huberman Lab?
Grant:Yeah. Following that, he's done a great job of just sort of sitting on the couch and having a, no graphs, nice. Pictures, just, it's deep scientific lectures about cortisol and stress exes. And—
Lisa:Yeah, and even if you're not, they haven't spent a decade studying this stuff, you can you can understand how. He makes it very—
Grant:High grade neuroscience and medicine just available to the public, I love it.
Lisa:I know. It's so awesome. That's why you've got to get your podcast back up.
Grant:Yeah, yeah, I’m gonna get it going. You gotta remind us to get on your one and get reinvigorated.
Lisa:Exactly. Because we need, we need to, we need it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. We need it from people who are at the cutting edge of academia, of academia, the cutting edge of research to deliver it to us straight, rather than it going through the zigzag of ten, you know, professionals along the way, getting dumbed down to the point where it's of no use to anybody.
Grant:Yeah. And then it goes into the Ministry of Health and comes out on another format altogether.
Lisa:Yeah, it’s just complete bullshit. If you just look at the whole, you know, vitamin C recommendations, they've been trying for years, the scientists to get it, the recommended daily allowance, recommended daily amount that you meet to have put up just a little bit. Yeah, but no, we can't do the head. You know, even though the science says that that's not enough.
Grant:Well, I mean, the entirety of nutrition dietary guidelines, in a complete state, which is a drag so far as I'm concerned, but yeah.
Lisa:Professor Grant Schofield, you've been amazing today. I've really loved this conversation. I've taken up a heap of your time, I would love to have you on, obviously, for more sessions, if we can. Because we haven't even touched the sides, really, and there's a heck of a lot. Is there any last things that you want to share? What are you, you're a couple of takeaways from today in our conversation today that you really want to spotlight in?
Grant:I still think that. Yeah, your body wants to be in a state of the scientific ord isw homeostasis, but in a state of balance, I guess with the world that lives in. But the world is designed to live in, needs to have some mesh, or be at least somewhere close to their current world, and often those are a long way apart.
So I think that's probably the major issue isn't it is that we can't reach this homeostasis. So we end up with either glucose or insulin being really high as sort of global things, or the soul glutamate thing running amok. And it's entirely predictable, then, on that basis. So we're actually not going to be as well functioning as we would like. And so then the question is, what can you do about it? The thing is, we always put it back on us which is good, what doesn't need to start with us but I think we forget we live in you know, most people listen to this live in a democracy. And part of a democracy is everyone actually has a say. So, you know, my hope is that, you know, everyone you guys out there, become a little bit more vocal about that. I think that's a really important thing.
There is a democracy around health as a, sooner we'll be, we get to decide like the country decides. And actually we do eventually overwhelm the food industry, that pharmaceutical drug That sort of stuff, it becomes that important, it's become pretty obvious that, especially if you're young people, we can do so much better. And we just need to. And so that's up to everyone, not just me. I'll keep trying, guys.
Lisa:Please, please do. Because at least you have the titles, the credibility, the name, the books, the stuff behind you to actually make a massive impact. But if we collectively all put our two cents and so to speak—
Grant:Yeah, that's miles more than I can do. And just on that, we've been, I've written the books, it's great, have a look at those.
Lisa:Yeah, list out your books, and where can people find you.
Grant:So this,www.whatthefatbook.com. And it's got theWhat the Fat, What the Fast, What the Face. The latest one is What the Fit recipes. What the Fit sport performance. I'm really incredibly proud of me and the rest of the team, it's not a solo effort. Those put those together, especially Caryn and Craig Roger. We've started a company called PreKure. It's been going a few years now. And we've really concentrated on filling a sort of treatment gap and health and the health sector with health coaching. This time health coaching and nutrition and mental health aspects as well. In my opinion, if you're passionate about health, then you don't need to go to university for 10 years to make a difference.
There's some stuff you need to learn, especially on the coaching aspects around how to help people find the most for themselves, meaning where they're at, and those things and those are good fun skills to learn both for yourself and your family, but also for helping other people. So, PreKure was sort of felt such, prevention is cure, PreKure p, pre with a K.
Lisa:P-R-E-K-U-R-E.
Grant:Yeah, dot com. We're really passionate about helping you help yourself with your health, but more than that, helping help others and that sort of help, you know, taking us out of, taking an active part on this issue for us as around, you know, take advantage of democracy, but also take the advantage to help you know, when you get new knowledge and it's useful. Share it, for God's sake.
Lisa:Share it, yeah.
Grant:That's gonna chip away at the food industry and the other forces that tend to undermine any attempt at human wellbeing.
Lisa:Change and yeah, and I think this, you know, the health I mean, obviously, you had in the health coaching space, and this is a new burgeoning area. We need more people coming into this area that can share this sort of knowledge and bring it out there.
Grant:And, you know, how better to keep you on track and helping you with things for friends and family and other people around your community rather than having to go to the clinic and the doctor, and it's all sickness orientated.
Lisa:For 15 minutes if you're lucky, yeah.
Grant:But someone who's actually got a genuine interest in how you're going and wants to help you. And, you know, so I think we'll go that way. I'm really looking forward to that.
Lisa:Yeah, let's keep working on this mission. I think we're on the same mission. Professor Grant, you're just awesome. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed our conversation today, and we'll hopefully have you on again soon.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
20 Mar 2020
Episode 142: How Contagious is the Corona Virus and all the facts you need to know
01:18:34
Lisa interviews this week Dr. Mansoor Mohammed immunologist on what exactly makes the Covid-19 virus so dangerous, how it's transmitted, how it enters the body and what it does once it's there.
He talks about who exactly fits in the high-risk group and how long the virus can live outside of its human host on various surfaces.
They also discuss how containing it and taking drastic action will not stop the spread but slow the spread and therefore the load on the public health system so as not to collapse the system and to give those suffering severely the best chance at surviving.
He talks about the history of this strain and our past experiences with it and the long term implications.
He also brings to our attention the need to especially protect `our elderly population and the immune-compromised.
This is a time to consider other people and to avoid hysteria and panic but to take the risk seriously so as to avoid the worst possible scenario.
Dr. Mansoor also discusses the need to boost the immune system to lower stress levels and the need to continue exercising and staying fit and avoiding poor food choices.
These are unprecedented times but with good strategies, in place and coherence from the majority of people, we can and will be stronger as a community.
Dr. Mansoor is the founder and president of The DNA company who specializes in functional genomics and DNA testing. You can find out more about Dr. Mansoor at www.thednacompany.com
Hormone Report with The DNA Company
If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.
Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.
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When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com
Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
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Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:14) Well, hi everybody. Welcome back to pushing the limits. This is Lisa Tamati again. And once again I have the fantastic doctor mental all the way from Canada who has sacrificed and I mean sacrifice in time to give you guys the, the rundown on what the Corona virus is all about from a scientist point of view, point of view from an immunologist point of view. Dr main soar is not only a leading functional genomic specialist and you heard him on the show just last week, but he is also a immunologist. So welcome to the show again, dr. Mansoor, it's, I'm so pleased to see you. I just,
Speaker 3: (00:50) Well thank you so much for having me back
Speaker 2: (00:53) Then. This no, it's fantastic. So Dr Mansoor, you've written a couple of articles that I've also had up on my blog and sharing it with my, my audience. It certainly gave me pause and it was very much the facts and not the hype. But still very, very concerning. Can you give us a rundown on the history of a coronavirus for staff and you know, how do we get,
Speaker 3: (01:21) Well I think not to trivialize or make light of a serious situation, but to start off at a point that highlights something and that is the more of these podcasts and video custody I'm doing in the coming weeks. I am pretty much self isolate and not pretty much I am and I don't have access to a Barbara anymore. So as these videos go on, I'm looking grapher and you know, sort of scrub your, as each video goes on. So that's a good place to start that you know, we are taking this seriously, but to make something of, you know, to, to lighten the mood for the audience members yet this is what documents are, looks like, what he does not have access for the company.
Speaker 3: (02:10) So coronaviruses the first thing I think as a community, we've got to understand, we've been exposed. So the SARS cough too, which causes, which causes the covered 19, this, this pandemic. So this pandemic is caused by a virus, by bacteria, by a virus, number one. Number two, the pandemic, the disease, the infection to the degree that someone gets it, it's called the covet 19 pandemic. The covered 19 disease as it might be infection and it's caused by the SARS called to a virus. Now, it's not by chance that the the agencies that had to come up with a name for this, they used that SARS as a prefix to that. This virus comes from the same species of the virus that we dealt with almost two decades ago. I saw ours acute respiratory syndrome, which of course at the end of the day, that will be likely the clinical concern for anyone who gets a clinically concerning infection.
Speaker 3: (03:18) It typically is manifesting itself as acute respiratory syndrome. I E difficulty breathing up to an including needing to be hospitalized. We'll talk a little bit about that a bit later on. But the point of this then is this, this is a virus. It's a virus that we've seen the, the, the family of this virus, the Corona viruses, humans have been interacting. In fact to deal with infections for coronaviruses for several decades now. So to the population out there listening to this know that this is not some sort of, you know, came out of the blue monster virus. Have no ever, no one ever knew about? No, not at all. It's the same family of viruses that do tend to crop up. They tend to come from animals, specific animals that tend to, you know, they act as vectors. They act as carriers and ever so often these viruses that we're evolved to live or to reproduce an animals ever.
Speaker 3: (04:16) So often as they mutate, they develop the ability to leave an animal host and come to human host. Okay, so this, this is what we're dealing with. We're also dealing, this is this virus, this thing that we've seen before. It's not actually that much more virulent. In other words, the, not to some too cold, but the mortality rate of this virus, the number of people that will ultimately die from this virus is actually, it is more than the common flu. The common flu tends to have a mortality rate of about a 1% give or take, depending on the ethnicity, the country's health factors and so on and so forth. SARS, for example, that virus that we dealt with a couple of decades ago had a mortality rate closer to 10% Merz, same family. The middle Eastern respiratory central virus had a mortality rate that was even higher than that.
Speaker 3: (05:13) The current virus has what we, based on the current epidemiologic studies and the data, which is still young, we're still collecting data. It looks like the mortality rate is about three to 4%. So it's not something to Scott that, but in the big picture, it's not something that human beings haven't had to deal with in the past. Okay. Now on the note of that, mortality rates, so there's a virus that we can be infected by. We'll talk about some of the factors of infection that for the most part, and for many individuals, the symptomology, what they're going to deal with is going to be nothing more than the common fruit for the vast majority of individuals. But for that smaller percent individuals, it can and it will develop into something more serious. We've got to understand this. Three to 4% on percentages are averages. Okay?
Speaker 3: (06:07) So we take a hundred people, we take a thousand people that we knew that were infected and then we follow the course of their disease. How many people didn't even know, they didn't even know they were infected, they went above luck and they will never know that they were infected because it just never got to the point where it was serious. And by the way, a large percentage of people will fall into that category, which is what is unique about this virus. And it creates a dichotomy. On the one hand, the virus for so many people, the symptoms are so mild, so as took for the person not even know they've got the virus or think that it's just another just passing flu. And on the other hand it can and will kill a small percentage of individuals. This duality is what makes this virus so concerning in reality, because what is happening is many, many people are asymptomatic, they're traveling.
Speaker 3: (07:01) And of course until and unless the countries that's countries are now starting to seriously the spread rate. And this is what is concerning. The spread rate of this virus is higher than previous strains. So I'm going to start divvying up these points and we'll address each one of them with a little bit more care coming back to those. So we've got this virus, we've got this percent. I need individuals to understand that when we talk about percentages, there are averages. So the mortality rate on average is three to 4% but when we isolate the at risk group and who are the actress group individuals that are elder, okay so we say 65 70 years old and above that there's no hard line there. But basically those are the folks that we're seeing that can be at significantly greater risk. Individuals that are there does seem to be Lisa, a male preponderance and there are some, there's some reasons for that.
Speaker 3: (08:02) We're still sorting through the data without getting into that, which we know without getting into that, which we're uncertain of and we have to be so careful in these times. So only represent what we know. Okay. So it is not absolutely clear when the data is all looked at, whether we will see a greater number of males versus females. Currently it seems that way and currently there does seem to be some indicators as to why that might be the case. Okay. Regardless, 65 17 older individuals with existing all motor, all form, all community cardiovascular disease, so hyper hypertension, bonafide beyond hypertension, bonafide cardiovascular disease, individuals who've had strokes before, individuals who've had cardiovascular events before. Okay. Second to that risk factor seems to be a diabetic individuals and again there's a reason why these things are clustering as such. So if we were to put the highest based on the thin data we have, we would say men above the age of 70 who are hypertensive, who who've had cardiovascular events in their life are at the highest risk.
Speaker 3: (09:20) Then we would say like age men who may be diabetic. Then we would say like aged woman in either of the categories and then we fall into a broader category that seems to transcend age. So other than above 65 70 and that is anyone who has been a greater risk. And of course this now expands the population for asthma, bronchitis, people that may have had pneumonia in the past and they find themselves more susceptible to it, I. E. these are individuals that you know from the basis of their physiology, there are greater risk of what hyper inflow inflammatory responses in the respiratory track. And that's a no, that's independent of the age two genes independent of the race to gene if, and this is age a, this is not age limited, independent of age independent if the a sturgeon and very quickly for the audience, the ACE two gene is the gene that makes a enzyme receptor on the surface of your cells.
Speaker 3: (10:31) And this receptor has been found to be the doorway. The thing, the door through which the saws called to virus enters the human cell and it's always important for viral ologists epidemiologists to know how the virus is getting into the human cell. Keep in mind that viruses, unlike most micro organisms or other living organisms, viruses can also exist independent of a host. So a virus needs to enter a cell and animal cell or human cells in order to survive. And what do they do? And, and I, I made reference to this to be, you know, if you actually looked at what happens when a virus enters a cell, it's something out of an alien movie. You know, literally the virus co-ops it, it sabotages the, the human cell. It hijacks all of the machinery of the human soul and directs it towards reproducing that virus.
Speaker 3: (11:33) And then when the virus has basically usurped, it has basically used up all of the resources of the human cell. It releases itself from the human cell and now you have one human cell bringing forth from it, many, many copies of that virus. Okay, so the virulence of the virus, just how dangerous it can be are in pots. How easily kind of enter the human body. You know, is it something that you've got to go, you know, lick the floor before you get infected? Is that something that you just have to breathe it from a ma, you know, from meters away. So that's the first couple. The second component is often it enters the human body, which cells of the human body is the virus getting in six different viruses can enter an infect different cells and depending on the organ system of the body, you might imagine that a virus that is able to get across the blood brain barrier and affect the brain, the neural cells or virus that can get into, you know, the liver of ours.
Speaker 3: (12:38) There are certain organs that depending on if those cells were being ruptured and being taken over, you can imagine correctly that the impact of the health impact on the human being is going to be more severe than other organs. Now, for the most part, the coronaviruses, when they infect the human being and they get it, they're entering into cells involved in the pulmonary cardiovascular system. They're basically infecting the lining of the lung and other cells. Mind you. Okay. Now. So the other components that makes up when we look at how dangerous are viruses, we want to see how easily can it be contracted when it gets sensitive body, which cells are going, are they going into, how quickly are they usurping? How quickly are they using up the resources of the cell? Okay. Compared to how quickly can the immune system of the body attack and get rid of the virus.
Speaker 3: (13:37) Right. So there's a game being played here, awarded as being waged. The virus gets into ourselves using a PA cells to multiply. At the same time, our immune system is trying to respond and decorative those microorganisms from the body. Okay. And for the vast majority of people that come in contact with coronal viruses, including the SARS to our immune system is beautifully equipped to stop it from going beyond that, which is tolerable. Okay. No, any infection, it will be beneficial. And this is something that we might touch upon. Lisa. So many scientists, so many health professionals, we are looking at the immediacy as we should be the acute infection. But what we're not considering is this because of the ramifications of this infection. What do we see happening? People are having to stay indoors. People are stucking up in food. They're there. They're afraid to go out and shop, so we're stucking up a non-perishables which happen to be processed foods Laden with sugar Laden with salts.
Speaker 3: (14:48) We're not getting the type of activity that keeps us healthy, that sleep cycles are disrupted. Our stress levels are up when we're stressed out because we've got to go and we've got a lineup for two hours in order to get, because of frankly hysterical buying patterns that should not be in our communities. We are doing a disservice to ourselves, to our loved ones, to the actress population. By that uncalled for hoarding and rushing out and buying. Why you creating stressful environments, these stressful environments elevates your cortisol levels. That elevated cortisol suppresses the immune system. Okay. Then we're going, what are we buying? Are we buying fresh fruits and vegetables and no, we're buying canned foods. We're buying pasta, we're buying processors because those are the non-perishables and then we're thinking of a journey where for the next four months or however long we're cooped up, think of what this is going to do to not just the immediacy effect on health of the infection but the longitudinal effect of people not exercising for months and then being cooped up eating horrible foods, stress levels up.
Speaker 2: (16:08) Yup, and I mean this is one of like I'm an oil company, obviously we're a health and fitness company and we, we look at all the health suicides we are pivoting is you are with your company into providing online training programs online, you know, lives passes to people in their living room in, in making them think about lowering their stress levels, getting into meditation and deep breathing and all those things that are going to be great.
Speaker 3: (16:32) I cannot stress enough from a scientific perspective, from a medical perspective and unfortunately our medical communities because we're swamped and having to deal with the immediacy of the acute care. Few people are speaking about the radically important component that you're dealing with, the service that you're providing. The, the lesions of individuals for whom they don't have to be worried, even if they were infected about it being an overly dangerous infection, it will be, they'll have a flu and there'll be down for the count for a few days. But what they're not looking at is the transients. And yes, it may be transient, but the, the, the impact on our cardiovascular system, the longitudinal impact on our immune system, the impact on our mood, mental behavior, wellbeing. Right. I just read an article just before coming onto this, onto this podcast that in one of the, in one of the provinces that here in Canada, their, their, their, their assault domestic abuse, sorry. So they're, they're domestic abuse hotlines are ringing off the clock now because what you're getting is this ripple effect. Now you're getting people having to be locked up in homes exacerbating latent behavioral, you know, misgivings and tendencies, these repercussions. Lisa, I'm going to have greater societal impacts than the repercussion of the virus.
Speaker 2: (18:07) I'm so glad you brought that up. I mean, I know with myself like, you know we got some financial impacts from this for their business. Is you know, most people at this time and that is creating stress. You know, and this is just an, you know, not too much of we have people. And what, what I've been trying to put in, in, in my social media and in my videos and things is the importance of having honest, calm discussions with each other and being positive about finding the opportunities because every horrible, you know, cloud that comes upon us all side brings benefits and it's like, okay, what, what, what is the benefit of this? Instead of just looking at the threat and changing it into this is a challenge. This is an interesting time we're living we have a chance to pivot and you have a chance to have more time with our loved ones to reflect on our direction of our lives. And we have this world is going and the will be benefits and not to just go into a panic state. And it's very easy to do when you are losing your income and when you're stressed about your elderly loved ones
Speaker 3: (19:17) And you know, God forbid and horrible and me to say that I can sit and be a pundit when you know, if I'm not entirely concerned about next months, you know, rental income over paying the bills and that there are individuals for whom because their store was closed or because their day job was affected and they can't. So please to the audience out there, I cannot, it would be utter hypocrisy of me to say that I can understand the stresses that that will bring. But what I can say is this, that regardless of what you're facing, no, that those stresses are in and of themselves further exacerbating your own health, number one. Number two, two, two, two, two do have in the, the sooner and the greater portion of the society that takes up a positive outlook of this is the sooner that the society is going to get back to the operationality that we need to get back to.
Speaker 3: (20:17) And of course that that operationality we will find that there are different things. Ingenuity, often sprouts from times of hardship. And again, I'm not trying to publicize from a lofty position. I know that there are people out there, I can't imagine, I can't, I can only empathize the struggles some individuals are facing. But you know, the incredible thing of the human condition is that when we band together, when we, when we show the care that is needed, the and we step out of ourselves, that we suppress that narcissism and we watch out for the greater community, we will find that there will be things. When this is over, we will have inventions, we will have things, we will have a way of going about business that is now more resilient to the next thing that we will face. I will always face these things as human beings.
Speaker 3: (21:12) So coming back to I, I really want to emphasize that yes, we must look out at the virulence level, the virus and the, the direct causation, all things we need to look at. But it is so important and Lisa, what you're doing. And in fact, where your business can grow with this, this is not the point of this podcast is to say people more and more individuals, the individuals that are reading books, because there's, what are you going to do? Your home, you're reading, educating yourself, picking something that you see. You know what? I know have some time. Let me use that time and, and let me pursue something that I otherwise didn't have because I was stuck in traffic two hours every day going back and forth. So in gender, that, and then nothing can be better purpose, nothing can be better positioned than in gender and helping individuals.
Speaker 3: (22:01) Here's something that's going to happen, Lisa. So when this event has passed, a much greater percentage of our society will recognize, I need to take my health seriously. I need to, you know, I need to, I need to recognize that. You know, what if I were entirely dependent on my governmental institution that are doing amazing jobs on my medical institutions to take care of me, you know, I'm putting myself at some risk. Okay? So, so let me take the steps to improve my wellbeing. So here's the point. Absolutely. Regardless of whether it's Corona, viruses, SARS, Cabi two specifically. If we are healthier as human beings, just in all of the definitions of healthier, we are better equipped to deal with infections and that's a very generic statement but it's a very accurate statement. So now let's get into a little bit of more of the specifics and we can tie them back.
Speaker 3: (23:00) We got to the point that when the virus, this particular sauce copy to enters the body, here's the two things that are making this virus. Three things that are making this virus a bit more despite the lower rates of mortality, a bit more concern. Before we get to those three things, let me finish the point on the percentages. As much as the average mortality percentage is about three to 4% that number significantly rises. When we look at the population, it's closer to eight to 10% of people in the actress elder population as we defined. And so of course at that point now we are getting to a number that is concerning our loved ones who yes, they're 70, but that, you know, they've got beautiful long lives. I've lived them, but certain factors can make them quite at risk for this virus. Now other than what we've mentioned in terms of age possible sex, dimorphism hypertension, cardiovascular disease, diabetes of obviously we have to be super careful these smaller percentage of our population that are recipients of organ transplants and therefore they are immunosuppressive medications.
Speaker 3: (24:18) These individuals, their caregivers, their families. We've got to be so concerned about making sure we do not expose this segment of the society patients that aren't chemotherapies. And therefore because of the, you know, the real pounding the chemotherapy does to the human body, cancer patients and patients on chemotherapy should also a need to also be added to that ultra protective part of the population. Okay. Now let's the, there there was, and so I would be hypocritical to say that the data is clear to the degree of making a final comment. It appears actually, and by God's grace, it appears that the youth are much less affected by the virus, much less effected. Okay. And, and what's that timeline is a toddlerhood our baby's back in the risk category. But, but then from two years to 15, we don't have those ages. But what we know is that when we look at the broad epidemiologic data, we're not seeing much comorbidities or mortalities in the youthful pay population with the exception of obviously any children, you know, gosh, that are dealing with cancers or that are dealing with you know, individual increased predispositions to asthma new pneumatic pneumo pneumonia.
Speaker 3: (25:52) If you are that person, regardless of age, what are these symptoms? A person who when they get the cold or to get a flu, you know, we all tend to have different responses. You know, some of us will get a sore throat, we'll get a stiffly nose, we'll get a headache, we'll get maybe some achy joints. And that's it. And then there's some individuals, the first thing that happens is, you know, they'll say, it's my lungs. I, I get that. You know, I'm, I'm at risk for the upper respiratory bronc bronchial infections and I get the lung pump, okay. If you fall into that category, what it means is individually, physiologically, and actually very often genetically the lining of your, the alveoli, the little sacks, the little air sacks of your lung, the lining is at risk for what we'd the hyper inflammatory reaction. Okay.
Speaker 3: (26:48) And so I, and, and this is where, this is where we have to be a bit more careful. Okay? So, so if you know, you fall into that category, then anything that causes inflammation of the lining, the luminal linage, which could be, for example, these individuals would have known never be the person locked in a close back through using harsh chemicals. That alone can bring on a really bad episode of shortness of breath and something worse than that. In the case of the virus. Well, of course this particular virus coming back to where we started, these viruses are entering these cells because this H2 gene happens to be expressed. The doorways, the cells with the doorways through which this virus enters happens to be expressed in the lower respiratory tract and it happens to be expressed in different parts of the cardiovascular system, which is why it's unsurprising that the deleterious symptoms of the virus are exactly in those parts of the body.
Speaker 3: (27:49) Okay. Now let's come back to the virus. We said there are three things that are that are making these, this virus and this pandemic dangerous, not because of what you would think it to be, not because it's killing high percentages of individuals, but for the following reason. Number one, ironically, this virus is dangerous because when it does enter the human body and we said viruses have to enter the human body, co-opt the cells and then reproduce it can be so mild, Lisa, every governmental agency knows for a fact and it's not to create a steric hysteria. Many more people than are being tested positive, have the virus. Actually have it. Okay. But that's okay. In some ways they're not, they're not going to have any deleterious health outcome for themselves, but they are going to be the transmitters without knowing they're the transmitters. So this is where a degree of maturity and a degree of ownership and a degree of responsibility comes in where you've got to be able to say as far as humanly possible, did you travel recently?
Speaker 3: (29:04) Do you fee how you know? And of course using how you feel only goes so far because you may be feeling Sosa really hold yourself to account. Have you been traveling while you in hot zones? And keep this in mind because the first of the three things that make this virus so dangerous is actually it is so mild, but mildness does not equal the the, just because you're mild does not mean you're not emitting the virus. Okay? So a person who can be asymptomatic next to a person in bed with a fever, with a sore throat, symptomatic and they both cough or they both just happen to Excel too much. The virus in the sputum, which of course is the saliva. And the mucus that comes out of the mouth of the nose. Both individuals can have as many viral particles. The person that is asymptomatic and the person that is symptomatic, so lumps is there in fact.
Speaker 3: (30:06) So this is the first thing that makes this virus a bit more dangerous. And it's actually the thing that we're not even talking about, number one. Number two, the second thing that makes this virus quite dangerous is so one of virus enters the cell as we said, and it, it, it has, it hijacks that. So for its own, its own reproductive, you know and goal, we, there are these metrics, what these metrics are, we say for every one human cell that the virus enters, how many red, how many baby viruses, how many offspring viruses are leaving that, you know, when it's used up the human cell, this is where the saws Covey to virus is showing a little bit. If it's dangerous colors, again, not because it was causing really harmful symptoms, but it is emitting what appears to be, no, this is early data. Okay. But it's, it's emitting per ruptured per, per human cell that, that it tie jacks up to a thousand times more viral particles than, than previous. Coronaviruses
Speaker 2: (31:19) That means in your Spotium when you're breathing, when you're coughing is
Speaker 3: (31:24) Yeah, you have, it doesn't mean that it's any more serious of virus, but it means that it's transmitted ability. How many people? This is huge. Okay. And this is why we're seeing that classical exponential doubling. Now this is what we call the row of a virus R O. So for example, influence a row might be around, let's say about one also the row numbers, just a number is that estimates for every person that has the virus that has it and that is reproducing it and that is transmitting it. How many people do they stand to infect the current SaaS? Coby two seems to be about two to three times as much infect ability than the common flu, for example. Okay.
Speaker 2: (32:21) Wow. So, so for Everage and I know get it early data, but so for one person who has a bar,
Speaker 3: (32:29) Well of course that absolute number just has to do with how many people they're coming into contact with. But what the point is, is mano a mano, the person with the comes. So here's how you want to at it. The person who has the common flu versus the person who has the saws copy two virus, both of these individuals walk into a supermarket and they're going about their own daily business because they didn't think anything was also ultimately wrong. The saws Cabi two individual will infect almost three times as many people as the common flu person. Okay. That's the way you want to look at it. And again, these numbers may seem a three. No, you have to look at what this happens with doubling criteria. Exactly. So the other, it's 100% 100% all we need to look at is we need to look at the data that came out of Italy in one day, one day only.
Speaker 3: (33:26) I think it was March 15th on March 15th alone. The number of infected people jumped by 50% 50% in other words on a document. And then we had 10,000 people infected and then on the next day we had 15,000 people that were infected within one day. Okay. When you take these factors, again, not fear mongering, keep in mind most of those people infected are not going to have any really, you know, trouble some health concerns. But we're getting there. Now the third thing that is concerning about this virus, so we spoke about the actually the fact that it's so asymptomatic but doesn't mean that you're not transmitting it, that you are transmitting are lot more viral particles than previous coronaviruses or other viruses. The third thing is this, that yes, because of the symptomology, and this is really now putting aside the ripple health effects that you and I addressed a little early in the conversation on the acute side, on the direct viral concerning side of things.
Speaker 3: (34:39) Here is the thing that I highlighted in my first message because when you add up the transmitted bility of this virus as per what we've said, it's just a numbers game and I'll, I'll tell you how this plays in the U S we have X number of beds per per thousand individually per thousand population. So it means that at any given point in time in any healthcare system, your system in New Zealand at any given point in time, God forbid, X number of human beings can go to the hospital and receive care and we'll host the hospital to receive care from a broken limb because they fell off a bicycle to, you know, needing to give birth to a child, to something more serious than that at any given, all of these requirements in our hospital system are fixed. They're only X number of ventilators, X number of anesthesiologists, X number of respiratory and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3: (35:41) Now when you take the rapidity of spread of this particular SARS COVID 2, and you take the percentage that will ultimately develop concerning enough breathing concerns concerning enough short breathlessness, not mortality, just enough. You know, and for anyone who's ever had an episode where you can't breathe, it's a horrible thing. It's a very visceral response. You need care. You need to be, when we look at the capacity of the healthcare system and we look at what these numbers, even if they're non life threatening going into the medical facilities, this is what is breaking the system. Okay. And that's what's, that's the part that I, that's the part that every intelligence scientist researcher, biologist, epidemiologist has said this is the concern, not the concern of ultimate Lee, the severity of the viral infection. Ultimately the percentage of the mortalities, but the ripple effect of when more and more people are infected.
Speaker 3: (36:50) It just becomes a numbers game that more and more people will show up at hospital facilities requiring care. And of course at those facilities we have acute trauma care patients that are there. We have cancer patients that are receiving, we have expecting mothers that are giving birth. We have all of these things that our healthcare system on a daily basis has to handle. And this is exactly what Northern Italy experienced. It's what Spain is experiencing right now is what the British government has had to try to say, we know this is going to happen. So we just have to figure out, you know, and they, some of the press releases from the British government seemed very stock that they just said, look, we can tell you this is going to happen and we're going to tell you you're going to lose loved ones. And now it's a matter of mitigating as much of that as possible. Okay.
Speaker 2: (37:43) So the, the, the pandemic paradox, the the flattening of the curve as what we want to achieve. We know I watched a video from an epidemiologist who was saying if, if it all happens very quickly, we're going to hit this. We can have a long tail and, and the S. So that's why the self isolation and the that can containment nations as so important. The total number of people going to be infected is going to be similar. But it's from the right at which the heading, the hospitals and the
Speaker 3: (38:19) That's that is the critical, that's the break points. And so the only way that we can do this with any degree of in the, and I'm going to say this carefully in the best case scenarios, which of course are often hard come about. You know, we, if you look at how Singapore has addressed this issue, it was a best case scenario. You know, and now mind you, that has a lot to do with the history. They were better prepared than most countries. They took the threat of it. The moment they heard rumblings from China before it even became a news, you know, they acted. Of course not every country has the control population that they do and the resources that they do. But what I'm trying to say is that we can learn from both what happens when the system was broken as well as from when the system works.
Speaker 3: (39:07) And what we can draw from this is exactly what you pointed out. There has to be a balance. You know people who have been talking, and in fact I'm so sad that some people have been talking a bit uneducated about the concept of herd immunity for herd immunity to work. When you enter into the realm of saying that, okay, let's quote unquote that herd immunity take taking space. The first thing is you've got to know is you've got to be willing to lose a certain percent of your community. Okay? And you've got to make a value proposition of what is that percentage, number one. Number two, all right? Okay. All these things flippantly, if it doesn't impact you. Number two, for her to unity to work, and this is again from a core scientific perspective, there's several provinces that people are so uneducated, Lee, not talk, but one of the promises of herd immunity is it cannot be a transient population.
Speaker 3: (40:00) A herd immunity has to be a closed population. If you've ever population where people actively coming and going, you don't have a herd. What you're doing is you. It's the opposite of a herd immunity number two and number three that you assume there's homogeneity in the response to the infection, but we know there isn't homogeneity in the response. We know that there is a relatively benign response in about 80 to 85% of the population. That's a good thing, but in that 15% there's the individuals with whom they are preexisting conditions and then there's that 10% 5% 7% that is a not really, really high risk category. Then the fourth component of herd immunity is those individuals are not somehow excluded from the herd. They're embedded in the herd. They're there. There are parents that are living in our homes. They are, you know, God forbid, but for the families that have to deal with patients that are dealing with organ transplants and cancer, our myths, so the parameters of herd immunity do not match in the way that people are talking about it.
Speaker 3: (41:17) So ideally what you do want to have that curve flatten. You do want to the 85% of the population that can get the infection so that they are been immune after a period of time so that they're longer emitting the viruses. This is what matters so that we can have 85% of the population walking around going back into communal businesses and communal discourse, not emitting the viruses so that sooner rather than later that that that curve starts to flatten flat. But we do our best for the 15% of the population to shield them. They cannot be included or be thought to have the means safely to address the infection. So we need the infection to die off before they can. Again, I'm speaking here in utopia. I'm not saying this is easy, but the sooner we do this is the sooner that we can reintegrate this actress part of the population back to normal activity and not be concerned about them then being infected. And of course not having the means to successfully deal with this infection.
Speaker 2: (42:39) So anybody who is in that at risk category, whether it be through having asthma or being elderly or having cardiovascular disease or diabetes or any of those talks of things
Speaker 3: (42:50) As best as possible. But then being an absolute isolation is a very little value unless the community around them are taking the steps to flatten the curve. Right? So, so what we need this almost a dichotomous response to what needs to happen. We need to be one can even say a triad response. We need to ultra protect that actress population as best as we can. Recognizing that they will be the ones that if infected can quickly cascade into an unhealthy outcome or mortal outcome for the individuals that are, that are conclusively infected. We need to have, you know, proper isolation so that they can healthily, cause you know, they're not in that office, they'll go through their infection. It's just, you know, it's going to be a few days, sometimes very little, sometimes three to five days I prefer. And we allow them to get through without being properly isolated so that they're not passing it on.
Speaker 3: (43:57) And of course then the other part of the society that will never come into contact or hope not comes into contact and as the viral load, think of the space that we're in as the sum total of where that viral load can be. And what we need to do is we need to keep reducing the viral load. How do you reduce the viral load by reusing that which is emitted? How do you reduce that which is emitted by reducing and secluding the individuals that need to deal with their infection and let it go away so that once you're, once you went to immune system has dealt with the virus that is in you. Then once you're over the infectious phase, what happens is once you go back out, you're not spewing it, number one and number two, even if you were exposed to it, you no longer go back into the cycle and then now we have to really a little careful here.
Speaker 3: (44:51) We don't yet know the full immunity curve. We don't yet know the full immunity behavior to this virus. Okay? So we have to be careful there. Okay. And this brings up, wow. So, so you know, all things equal for the most, for the most part, when the human body, when the immune system both the, what we call the humoral and the innate. So both these for, for viral infections, we need both antibody response, but we also need our innate T cell response as well. We need, we need all aspects of the human immunity. When we deal with a viral infection for the most part, as we recover, we are immune to that virus such that, and here comes such that if the same virus we were exposed to it, we are now able to deal with the virus. Potter comes into the body, but we're all immune system snuffs it out before it starts to replicate. And before we become spewing engines again, right?
Speaker 3: (46:01) We develop antibodies and we develop your immune system is not just for example in viral infections, IGA, one of the major subgroups that are involved in viral protection, but also innate. There are your T cells, there are natural killer cells. There are cells that bring about the inflammatory response. And here we speak of inflammation as a good thing. All right, so, so we were bringing about the, the, the, the alarm bell response to deal with the infection. Now not every virus has such a clean cycle in the human body. Some viruses, the, there are ripple effects, the immune system, we were able to get rid of the first wave and you know, you've got better, but you may not be completely immune to the virus such that if you are re exposed to it, you do, the virus can enter yourselves, can reproduce for a period of time, often shorter, often not as vigorously before we snuff it out again.
Speaker 3: (47:04) So of course during that little period of time, again, you become a spewing engine, right? You're spewing out. So we've got gotta be careful about that, but there's something else we have to be careful about. And that is one of the things that is a little bit noxious about the coronaviruses is they have a fairly high rate of mutation. Okay? And so, so the evolution of the virus means that you may become immune to one virus, but then the second or third or fourth iteration of the virus is a beast. All F all on its own and your immune system is not equipped to handle that one. Okay.
Speaker 2: (47:47) Nope. Is this like, why are we being exposed to these viruses? Is it, are bad animal husbandry processes? Has, is always affected humankind since time and Memorial. We just don't not aware of it. How are we going to see this happen?
Speaker 3: (48:04) It's a question that I am not entirely equipped to answer. I know what, what I know where my strong points are and these are people far more intelligent than me and broader topics. But here's what I can add. Here's what I can give to that question. We've always been exposed to these things. Viruses are there viruses that fine as the original hosts, the animals that we either interact with through animal husband read through food sources. We've always, as a human species been exposed to these. But the one of the ways that it's controlled is, well, depending on the virulence of the virus and those that are affected die off much faster. All the populations were not as dense. And so these things leave animal sources, get into humans and then whittle out from the sharp curve and then they flatten. And then we move on several factors that as you does have to human population how much more we're interacting with animals and what is the context within which we're interacting with those animals from Dame that was simply wild game to now animals that are on them through animal husbandry closed through simply because of our expanding populations.
Speaker 3: (49:20) We were encroaching into areas and interacting with the animals or the ripple effect of animals such as one of the major transmitters are carriers of the coronaviruses or bats for example. I mean, you know, there's very few societies do bats play a role of some active interaction with human life. And you know, we're not few societies, we're not eating it, we don't keep them as pets. We are not, you know, and so on and so forth. But as we do encroach upon areas, you know, we're going to start being in greater interaction with animals that we previously weren't as interacted with or we interacted with offshoots, whether it'd be the feces, if those animals, whether it be those animals infecting bats that are infecting the animals that we do live from and so on and so forth. So there is a bit of that going on.
Speaker 3: (50:12) A radically important thing here and it's just our new world. We are much more mobile world than we've ever been, right? That's, that's, you know, we're a much more mobile world. On any given day you could have someone literally on one half of the globe and within 24 hours, that person's on the other half of the globe. And this is not to be hysterical or hysteria causing. This is just a reality of life. And it is something that we have to be cognizant of. Does this mean that we close our borders and definitely does this mean that we're suspicious? These viruses have no ethnic bias? None whatsoever. None whatsoever.
Speaker 2: (50:51) Okay. This is the danger that I see too happening is as becoming fearful of people from other you know, from overseas or from other ethnicities and stuff. And I hope that the, the society is mature enough,
Speaker 2: (51:08) You know develop developer are bias
Speaker 3: (51:11) Any human being or simply a matter on it and really are their hygienists use that can contribute to this. Yes. But at the end of the day, hygiene or all the hygiene in the world, if you're in contact with you, if you, unfortunately, second, you know, through direct means or secondary means are in contact with this virus, especially viruses that can transmit at such alarming rates, you will be infected. Okay. And so coming now, let's, let's take all of this and package this into something that is, as I keep saying, moderated of the first of the things and if the first of the statements, our population, our societies, we need to look beyond the fear mongering and we need to recognize this is not in the big picture an overly deadly virus speaking in plain terms, just in plain terms. You know, it's kind of he or she had, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a violence money.
Speaker 3: (52:10) Many more people than think they know have this virus already or have had this virus and they've gotten over it and they don't even know what they had. They thought they had the regular January flu. Okay. So, so number one, put that into perspective number two. Having said that, recognize that if this virus does make it two segments of the population that are at risk, it is a killer or it can be a killer. And then beyond the segments of the population for which it can have rapid unfortunate health outcomes, there is that buffer eight to 10% of the population that if they get this infection, it will not be a mortal infection, but it will be an infection that causes them to require hospital care. And eight to 10% of any society needing hospital care is more than the usual machinery of our healthcare system at any given point in time. Absolutely. Usually it's about we can handle change 3% you know, in terms of times of peril. Okay. All right.
Speaker 2: (53:21) Not 10% okay. Can I ask one question? The flu vaccine, the normal flu vaccine at a time like New Zealand, it's going into winter. And I'm dividing with myself. Do I take my parents to get a normal flu vaccine because we don't want a double whammy, you know? It will, it won't have any effect on the Coronavirus, but for,
Speaker 3: (53:45) I must admit again, for the audience listening, this is, this is more than I am capable of answering. So what I will give now has to be colored from the perspective that it is beyond my, my knowledge base. But what I would say is this, I would say of course the regular flu vaccine is precisely a vaccine against a strain that is not the size, at least not as yet the SARS cognitive strengths. So the immunity that that flu vaccine will bring about or could bring about will not benefit them if they're in contact. Now having said that, the two more considerations, of course, what you don't want is what you have highlighted or what you hinted at is absolutely a person can be infected with multiple strains, can get infected with the regular flu, be dealing with the health consequences of the regular flu and then get the size coffee too.
Speaker 3: (54:42) And of course the simultaneous or additive impact on the human body to the degree of additional inflammatory responses. We have what is called the cytokine storm response, which by the way is what is causing the real, it's one of the real killers for this particular this particular strain. It's the cytokine storm syndrome where because of the inflammatory response, because it came about so quickly, you go from not breathing to not being able to breathe or you have a vascular event because of rapid inflammation of the vascular lining. Okay. So I think what you were hinting at, and that is what I would concur with, if we could at least bring down the potential risks of co-infections during this period, I might say it's a reasonably enough objective that you should consider. That being said, recognize that when a person, especially some segments of the population, when you get certain vaccines, including the common flu vaccine, you do go through a period of inflammation and you do get a micro inflammatory response, which really then becomes a throw of the dice. You do not want elevated inflammatory responses coupled with, from what we can tell, you just don't. And that's why things, you know, something is why were type two diabetes via co-morbidity? Well, diabetics are dealing with an increased risk of what inflammatory responses. So the name of the game here is we've got to be careful about the inflammatory, an acute and uncontrolled, and that storm response is what we've got to be careful with. It makes sense. Okay. So, yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: (56:40) It's a, is a, is a funnel, and I know you've probably got other interviews to get to documents or in you explain the contagiousness of the virus outside of the human body. How long is it sounds, surfaces.
Speaker 3: (56:52) Oh, this is, this is, this is, this is where we and others have put you know, some degree of effort in, in, in looking at these things. So once the virus leaves the body, so in the body, it co-ops to cells, it multiplies, it erupts in the body and of course it rubs in the body, but then it can leave the body via what we understand. Obviously sputum is the major source, those little microdroplets that leave the body, whether it's leaving the body via blood, it's a question. And whether it's leaving the body via feces are fecal contamination is another question that let's leave that alone for the time being. So sputum. Now, once it leaves, we have to know that these sputum droplets are exceedingly small. And when a person is speaking, just as I'm speaking to, if I'm not, I tend to be passionate about certain things, you know, and I've got, I've got my computer screen in front of me.
Speaker 3: (57:54) If I, if I given, you know, and one hour podcast at the end of the podcast, when I look at my computer screen, right? It's a little bit gross. It needs some cleaning, but it shows how much leaves the mouth. Okay. For the general person. So we're to warning and we'll get to this, these little things. Horrible transmitters, horrible transmitters. We'll get to that shortly now. So when the spirits and leaves, what were the simulation of studies that are going on? These droplets can actually survive in the air for several hours. They just, they're like little dust particles, you know, being carried along by the waves of here. Several hours. Your sputum can exist in the air. That period the virus in the sputum that's been emitted appears to be able to live in the air before it settles for about three hours.
Speaker 2: (58:59) Wow. So you can just walk into someone else's cloud of, of spirit that they were talking to you. They
Speaker 3: (59:05) And you are breathing. And that's what we can talk about this containment area. Now, having said that, obviously there's a big difference walking by someone in a park that you are walking open air versus someone in a building of which there's, you know, industrial air flow versus versus versus a, now you get to a closed, you know, I don't know, being a room full of people poor ventilated and of course going into the winter times, all your windows are closed. Your, you know, your ventilation may not be as good as you otherwise wanted or plain, you know, and you know, these times or, or a, and this is why governments are correctly attending a conference that might otherwise not be a concern, but you packed 500 people into a room, you know, and the air circulation wasn't the best design for that. So, so we've got to be careful three hours once in the air, the virus can exist and stay, stay animated, I.
Speaker 3: (01:00:05) E infectious for up to three hours. Now once they settle, once they settle on different surfaces, they can survive for different periods of time. And it's, it's a whole field of study as to why viruses exist in the air versus surfaces. Let's leave that alone. Here are some important ones. It seems to be able to survive on cardboard surfaces for up to 24 hours. Now you might ask why in God's green earth that someone studied viruses, COVID 2 on Cabo? Well, all of our food supply and all of the things that were in 24 hours, 24 hours, it seems to be able to survive on harder surfaces. Wooden surfaces steel surfaces for up to three to five days. Okay. This is, if I were to add a fourth characteristic when we said three that make this virus pretty naughty, the fourth would be this.
Speaker 3: (01:01:09) It's surviving outside of the host for longer periods than others. Some, some other viruses, which of course simply adds to why it's rule value. It's contagion. Value is about double some of the previous viruses we've seen because of these attributes of this particular virus. Again, that's survivability doesn't mean that it's more or less deadly. No, it just means that it survives and then you can pick it up and then you'll have a mild flu, but then you are transmitting. All right. So, so we've got to understand the transmitter ability. This is the thing we've got to keep coming back to. And of course the more that we can do to avoid being in those areas, the more that we can do to practice the hygiene. There was an intelligent article it went a little too much in one direction and w w what the medical expert was highlighting was of advising that people not wear mass.
Speaker 3: (01:02:09) Okay. That's no, we've got to understand this wearing a mask, assuming that it is a mass that has the filtration properties that can withstand to five micrometers, because those spits those, those sputum three to five micrometers. Not all mass can filter for that. So you've gotta be, if you're going to wear a mask, make sure you're wearing one. That ma that meets the filtration characteristics associated with this, number one. Number two, what the, what the medical proof, what, what the, what the expert was trying to convey is don't think that that mass, which is, which is an important protection or certainly by the way if you think you, if you think you have the infection and you have no choice but to have to deal with and take care of, you do wear the mess so that you're not putting those spirituals out into the environment that you're in now, but for your own protection. On the other hand, what we're noticing is people when mess and then they think that, okay, that's it. And then they're no longer aware of their touching, rubbing of the eyes, rubbing of the nose. They're constantly shifting the mass, which of course is constantly putting that and what they're not realizing is the mask is protecting you from something of a three hour circulation. The mask is not protecting you for the two, three, five days of the surfaces that you're in contact with.
Speaker 3: (01:03:39) So it is a good thing to be doing, but don't, don't forget the hand washing. You know, I am never, ever, ever, ever a fan of those, you know, Senator re, you know, this time, you know what, no, you do. No, you do. You know, there's a time and place for everything. Right. so let's, let's just, let's just track now and maybe we'll close the miss Lisa, just the average person, if you have to go out, you have to go and get your groceries. Okay. Be mindful of your environment. Try, try, if possible to not go during high traffic times. And I realize how silly that might sound. Thankfully, certain chains, certainly here in Canada, they're actually establishing hours for the elderly, so they're actually parceling out the hours of open store to account so that they can vow and keep the environment and the store as healthy as possible.
Speaker 3: (01:04:42) Okay. When you go into such environments, any mindful of your environment, it's not to be schizophrenia, but be mindful, you know, on a, on an average day you were pushing your cart. Maybe you're eating while you're pushing your cart or drinking your coffee, rubbing your, this is not an average day. So still, you know, don't be drinking your coffee and have an open lidded something as you're going about your daily affairs right now. That's, that's, that's not for now. Okay? So avoid those things. Be purposeful. You want to go shop, you say, I'm going, you know what you need. You know where it, you get in, you get out, you try to touch as few surfaces as possible. It doesn't mean, did you call me pleasant? You're not shaking hands, you're, you know, hi Mrs. Jones. Nice to see you and you get about your business and everyone just knows that we're here to protect each other.
Speaker 3: (01:05:33) Okay. When you come home, make it a habit. We don't quite know. It's seems that the fabric, the poorest fabrics, you know, cotton jacket or whatever have you. They seem to be a shorter half life for the virus, but, but not zero shorter. Okay. So you come in, dedicate a closet, you know, whether it's in the garage or whether it's at the opiate or at the entry of the home where you come in and you take your outer garments and you hang it up there. For example. Okay. And that you don't enter into the rest of the home. You know what your outer garments and sorts of take your tip, take your jacket out, hang it up on that closet out, nothing else in there. The next time that you're gonna use it, all things equal. That seems that the virus isn't gonna survive that long.
Speaker 3: (01:06:21) Getting yourself to a washroom, wash your hands. Ideally, you know, just you'll know to what extent you've been exposed to the environment. And ideally, ideally, again, not trying to increase wastage here and water load. Ideally to the extent that you are out there, to the extent of what environment that you out there. You may be take your clothes and you put it into the washer, right? But, but, but you know, if you knew, do you in and out, you had an outer garment. That's the only thing you need to hung up. That should be perfectly fine. What is the end point of this? The end point of this is we do not need to be hysterical. We do need to be more purposeful. We do need to be more aware of our environment and just aware the things that we wouldn't have thought of walking around with an open lidded coffee as we're shopping or you know, whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: (01:07:10) Not now, not, no. Okay. You know, you know, and I'm so just being are these things may seem as, Oh my gosh, but life can go on doing these things. Right? So, so in other words, taking these steps do not mean that we stop living. We're just going to be a bit more careful. Okay. We're a bit more mindful, I'm sure by now it goes without saying gyms and recreational facilities are not the place that you're going to be in this period. And that is not to put an onerous you know, to, to, to snakes stifle these businesses. It's to say that, look, when you go to an enclosed environment, what are you doing more? If when you're exercising, you, you're, you're, you're, you're emitting a lot more spirituals and you know, and there's only so much we can do to keep surfaces clean just for this period of time. And this is where you come and Lisa and people like you helping individuals know what can you do at home, you know, what can you do to, to, to still maintain some activity. You can control your surfaces a little bit more than, you know, in a commercial setting. These are the practical things. I underline, I on the line, do not make this something that it's not, it's not something that is a killer virus for the vast majority of individuals. It is for a small segment. We need to protect.
Speaker 2: (01:08:36) Yes, we need to protect the bat. Indeed, it's about protecting vulnerable. That's a massive systemic approach that we have to have is it's all of that. But people who are vulnerable and not so much about ourselves and the economic pressures are definitely there. But we need to, we need to prioritize health over economy right now. We can survive economic downturns. They won't be nice. It won't be pretty, but we can survive them. Can you tell me in, in China the AP seem to have where the status because they're weeks ahead of us. Most certainly.
Speaker 3: (01:09:15) I think there is an absolute positive, again, the positivity and we, we, we diverged, we didn't get too much into the more basal health things like reducing one stress, trying as best as possible to eat healthfully and so forth. Because what I'm trying to say here is another part of this that we need to be positive. We're not, part of the benefits of the global connected community is that we're not in silos with an unknown of what's going on. We can see the examples, both the good of them and the bad of them. Okay. And even from the bad of them, we can see what this curve looks like. In Wuhan in China, you know, where the epicenter appears to have started from with mind you, some fairly draconian steps. Mind you. Okay. They have been able to dramatically flatten that curve dramatically. Okay. And also all things equal.
Speaker 3: (01:10:16) It was, you know, by the time they were really in gear, it's been about a month and a half. Okay. So in a highly populated area at the epicenter of the virus, but with pretty, you know, severe or strong steps strong. The potato has the, the, the, the, the, the peak has been plateaued. We've, as we call it, we flattened that viral spread rate. Okay. So, so we know, and this is, this is about as worst case scenario. Unfortunately, several other high populous countries did not take the warning the way it should have been taken, have not taken steps. And then the steps they're taking seem to be sort of two steps behind. And then each day there they're catching up. And so what that means, it doesn't mean that it's a wall. It just means that what they've done is they have pushed the ability to flatten that curve. They pushed it out. So we're now not only looking at a peak, we're looking at a broader period of time to bring this, to heal, to bring this to heal.
Speaker 2: (01:11:27) So China is actually done pretty well. And places like Italy and I run a
Speaker 3: (01:11:33) There's certain places, another Italy have also done through some fairly draconian measures. A brilliant job of bringing it to halt by the way. But what they're dealing with is they're dealing with the rip, the ripple effect in Italy, what really crippled ruefully Italy was the ripple effect of all of the pressure on the healthcare system. It broke the system. And then so what is happening in Italy and what happened in Italy was you broke the system. So this is no longer just about the virus. This is about every other doctors and now you know, just literally at wit's end, you know, physiologically they can't even stand nurses. You know, if we want to see heroes, Lisa, look at these medical professionals, look at these young women, these nurses, these doctors. Those are your true heroes.
Speaker 2: (01:12:26) Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We must be totally grateful to our first responders, their doctors and nurses, the people who are putting themselves on the line. While we can go into isolation, they can't.
Speaker 3: (01:12:39) Yeah. I guess the complete the clarity. The last question you've asked. So if we find ourselves as in a society and within the governmental framework that are taking the proper steps and that we contribute to that by playing the part in the occur, we could see ourselves walking out of this worst case scenarios. No, no, no. I have to be very careful. Remember I'm saying if we do everything that we should do and if that is happening at a societal level and if that is happening with the government taking the Jew precautions, we can see this being something that two months from now we, you know, we come out on the other end as we have had data from, from Singapore, from Taiwan. If we don't do those things, we get into that bit of a bullish fortune. You know, in terms of the, the, the folks that are painting pictures that we don't want to see.
Speaker 3: (01:13:43) That could be real, but I would urge your community, I would urge audience to be positive. Not, I'm not trying to sugar coat anything. I don't sugar coat anything that we can, we will and can get through this. The sooner we adopt the measures is the sooner we flatten. That curve creates enough immunity in the health and to return society to it to get over the the financial hub. The longer we spread, this is the great opportunity. We cripple our medical system and of course all of the ripple effects. So it starts with the individual Lisa. It starts with that individual through the incidence they have in their families, educating their children, their spouses, their, you know. And if we do that, we can build the societies that will get over this as we've gotten over as a human race. Many of the challenges in the past,
Speaker 2: (01:14:43) We are very, very lucky that we have people like you and educated people who can tell us what is to expect. People in past generations did not have that knowledge. So we, we've got, we got a chance to make the best of this very bad situation and to turn it around into new positive directions as a society and to take personal care and to really take this seriously not being on, and I have to admit, even a week ago myself, I was not aware of the acute ness of the situation because we are a little bit removed and New Zealand and we haven't been hit to bam. We've got 20 cases also as obvious today. And we've been a bit, you know, and now we're not being glassy and, and it's more information and in, you know your colleagues that are getting this information out to us is absolutely crucial and will save lives.
Speaker 3: (01:15:38) Well, it's a pleasure, Lisa. What you do, the passion, the care, the concern comes across from halfway across the world. Keep doing what you're doing. I wish you the absolute best to you. Your family, your elder mom, that book that was written, the love that is there. And so of course, you know, what's going to come out of this, Lisa, one of the most beautiful things is we are going to have no choice but to bring back that sense of community caring, the empathy and some of that Mimi narcissism one way or the other. It's going to get squashed one way or the other.
Speaker 2: (01:16:16) Yes, absolutely. And you know, wealth and material things mean to nothing at the end of the day if you're not well and if you're not looking after your loved ones and, and, and a change of priorities can do us all good I think in that respect, you know, but thank you documents or I really
Speaker 2: (01:16:39) To get to know you and your company, the DNI company, if anyone wants to find out more about dr mentor's work, you can go to the DNA company.com doctor mentor is one of the leading what world's leading functioning genomic specialists. And then she appeared today also immunologist and he's, you know, sacrifice a lot to be here and is doing back to back interviews as I can imagine. So thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 3: (01:17:07) One day. Still do hope sooner rather than later
Speaker 2: (01:17:10) To be able to come visit you guys when it's safe to do when it's safe to do so. We wait. We're definitely still working on that plan document. It's going to be a down there.
Speaker 2: (01:17:26) If your brain is not functioning at its best checkout what the team at www.vielight.com do now being like producers, photo biomodulation devices. Now your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light, revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at www.vielight.com that's V I E L I G H T .com and use the code T A M A T I checkout to get 10% of any of their devices.
Speaker 1: (01:18:18) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
11 Sep 2017
Ep33: A winners mindset - How to set your mind for success
00:19:48
Learn to win in the mind before going into battle.
Understand what a growth mindset it and how to harness your potential through passion, finding your why, discovering your purpose and developing your core set of values that inform your actions.
Understand the self talk required for achieving lofty goals and develop the depth of your self awareness so you can work on the traits and skills you will need to tackle any challenge.
Understand the power of your emotions and passions to helping you fulfil your potential and learn to set out a plan and navigate the way from where you are now till where you want to be.
Self Optimisation Past 40 With Dr Anthony Balduzzi
00:53:24
In this weeks episode I interview the founder of the The Fit Father/The Fit Mother project Dr Anthony Balduzzi a man who has helped hundreds of thousands of people all around the world with his communities aimed at whole person health and fitness.
Anthony is driven by a passion to help families in particular. At age 9 he lost his own father to cancer (he was just 42) and this fundamentally changed Anthony's mission in life.
In this episode he shares very openly of his difficult journey and what drives him to both optimise his own health and wellness and those of others.
We talk about:
How to turn tragedy and adversity into power
How being physically strong and fit equips you for life's battle
The state of our population health ad where we are going wrong and what we can do about
The importance of primal rhythms, following seasonality, circadian rhythms and cycling
The art of personalizing your own health, lifestyle, nutrition and exercise regime
The importance of community to help you succeed with your goals.
The phases of life and letting go
Dealing with grief and trauma and becoming stronger and more resilient
You can find out more about Dr Anthony and his project at https://www.fitfatherproject.com/
BIO
Dr. Anthony Balduzzi, the founder and CEO of the Fit Father Project and Fit Mother Project, experienced a pivotal moment in his childhood when he watched his own father work relentlessly, only to succumb to illness and pass away at the young age of 42. Anthony was just 9 years old at the time. This life-changing event inspired him to dedicate his life to helping busy fathers and mothers aged 40 and above lose weight, build muscle, and improve their overall health for the well-being of their families.
As a licensed Naturopathic Doctor in Arizona, Dr. Balduzzi also holds dual degrees in Nutrition and Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. In addition to his academic achievements, he is a former national champion bodybuilder. Through his unwavering commitment and efforts, Dr. Balduzzi has successfully helped over 60,000 families across more than 100 countries through his Fit Father and Fit Mother Programs.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
This week on "Pushing the Limits" I talk Mindset, resilience, the life of an athlete with the indomitable Tiffanee Cook - boxer, sexual abuse survivor, business owner, podcaster and all round vulnerable/tough chick.
DING, DING, DING...
No turning back now, hands encased in leather, mouth guard in and the world and everyone else in it faded into the background. Sights, sounds, thoughts, stories... gone. Blows, danger, failure, truth... standing toe to toe, bearing a soul not yet seen.8pm October 27, 2012
ROUND 1
Was this the first time she had truly 'let go', 29 years in?
Over in both a heartbeat and yet an eternity rolled into one. Terror, adrenaline, fear, courage, isolation, trust, visibility and uncertainty. Yet ironically, a certainty she had never-before experienced.
'Letting go' wasn't what she'd dreamt it to be. Emerging with both hands now free to grab hold of a whole new reality. Perhaps she wasn't truly born in 1983, but rather in a ring in 2012. The referee clutched that now free left hand and raised it above her head. A stance that changed her forever. The underdog can come out on top... they don't even have to know the rules.
One crazy 'say-yes' moment accidentally and deliberately changed the course of this girl's life. Through the gloom and darkness, a crack of light showed a path, a doorway she could and would eventually walk right through. Boxing was the playground that allowed Tiffanee Cook to develop the courage, grit, resilience, curiosity, vulnerability and power that had lay dormant within her and bend and twist it to her favor. The fight wasn't over on October 27, 2012... It had just begun, and she was now a force to be reckoned with.
BIO
Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". Tiffanee Cook has learned this as a businesswoman, performance coach and boxer; from the comfort, predictability and safety provided by the corporate world, to the lessons and let-downs in and out of the boxing ring. Coming to the realization that, in order to have one's hand raised in triumph, adversity, discomfort and combat must be navigated. In the face of the messiness of life, do we fight or do we flee? Tiffanee speaks openly of her own personal experiences (good and bad) and how those experiences have enabled her to develop self-awareness, resilience, courage, independence and the skill to be able to maximize passion, possibilities and potential. She talks about getting knocked down (literally and metaphorically) and what it is that makes some of us get back up and some, stay down. Working in business, sport, high performance and personal development, Tiffanee explores a range of ideas, tools, skills, resources, philosophies and strategies to empower individuals, teams and organizations to improve everything from productivity, efficiency, culture and communication to physical, mental, emotional and social health.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
In this episode Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff discuss the phenomenon of the imposter syndrome, of having a lack of self confidence and self acceptance, about understanding the power of your words and thoughts to change your attitude to yourself and to your potential as a person.
How our perceptions of others always being better than us, diminishes our power and how that is a misconception of reality. Our everyones experiences colours the way they see themselves and the world and why you need to stand in your own power and own your own destiny.
This is about shifting the self talk, about stopping apologising for not being an expert at every damn thing and understanding the power of self confidence to change what you can achieve.
Hope you enjoy the show.
We wanted to let you know we have another live weekend running seminar coming up on the 9th and 10th of November in beautiful Hawkes Bay in New Zealand so if you want to come and learn everything there is to know around running and upgrade your mindset and health while you are there visit our information page at:
If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.
All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.
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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.
Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!
No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.
The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics
You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com
Transciption of the show
00:00Well. Hi everybody. Lisa Tamati me here once again, fantastic to have you with us. I'm here with my wing man. Neil Wagstaff, sitting over in the beautiful Hawkes Bay. How are you doing buddy? I'm good. How are you? Oh, very good. And today we've got another fantastic episode for you. We have just come off the back of our weekend run seminar that we have them head on the weekend and have a lot north. And beautiful north island of New Zealand's, if you're listening to this from overseas. It's sort of in the north island on the, on the east coast. Beautiful place. And we had a fantastic weekend. We had a full house of city od runners come to learn everything about running, but they actually went away learning a heck of a lot about mindset and about motivation and about nutrition and everything else in between.
00:47And was really, really a fantastic weekend. We are running another live event on the weekend of the ninth and tenth of November again, and have a lot more for if anyone's interested, I'm going to put a link in the show notes for you to register and you can find out all about it. We'd love to have you come and join us if you want a fantastic weekend with like minded people that are all into health and fitness and learning about upgrading the minds, the running skills and their bodies. So it's really a fantastic weekend. Neil, how did you find the weekend, right? Did you have a good time?
01:21Well it was great, , it's always the energy at those things that is awesome. The excitement or the stories everyone brings to it. It's epic. It just makes me smile thinking about, It gets the hairs up on the back of my neck cause everyone's there for different reason. They're there for a common interest of obviously running, but they've got their own goals. They've got their own why. And it's those special stories that, that make it for me, it's just, yeah, it's so cool. And to see people evolve over the weekend and come in a little bit unsure about what they're capable of and realize by the end of the weekend that, wow, I can do a whole lot more than I thought I was able to do.
01:53Yeah, it's really fantastic to see that. And you know, one of the main themes that keeps coming and reoccurring at these events and you know, with us dealing with hundreds of athletes and coaching, we get this common theme coming through, which is that people come to us and they go, they qualify everything. Like, Hi guys, I'm really interested in your one coaching programs, but I'm not a real runner and I'm only just a real slow, you know, middle of the pack or I'm just starting out and everything is qualified with the words. I'm not a real runner. And so we're going to do an episode today about, I'm not a real.dot dot. Because this is, this is a thing that's not just to do with running, but it's in every part of our lives. I find a lot of people are going around saying, I'm going to not a real ... , I'm less than what we think I might be.
02:45And we're going around with this lack of self confidence really and who we are. And we're not sitting in our power in there, you know, confidence that we can really achieve a lot of things. You know, when I go, you know, I'm studying a lot at the moment, all about real estate investing and all of this, and this is a new area to me, right? So when I go to see an expert, I don't want to go in the qualifying myself saying, oh, I'm a complete numpty. I know nothing about anything. But I do go in there and say, look, I'm new to this and I'm really keen to learn, but I don't go and say that I'm, I'm a complete idiot because that sits me up for, for being in a lower position, you know? And so being not confident in what I'm actually going to do.
03:31Yes, I might be new to a new skill, but that has nothing to do with where I can get to and that's nothing to do with how I should be seeing myself. You're just learning a new skill and each and every one of us is a new newbie in one area and an experience in another and we don't need to feel ashamed about this fact when we're starting something new and it's scary and we don't need to qualify this. Well I'm not a real runner or I'm not a real late or I'm not a real business person or I'm not a real real estate investor or whatever your area is that you are going to try to find out about. It's super that you are here to learn and it's really important to sort of stand in your own power and say, this is who I am. I'm an expert in x, Y, Z. I'm new to this area and not have to go, you know? So like you, you heard it again and again and the weekend day. Yeah.
04:25Interestingly throughout the week with some people I've been working with at the gym and some some of our regular coaching clients as well. I've done a couple of coaching calls this this week and one of the things we've been working on with a few of the clients is, is really what are your, what are your strong words? So often ask people that were your strong words. So rather to start your sentence with I'm not, or I can't start with I am and I can, but what, what is the strong word? I am, I am strong, I am a runner, I am good, I am gray. I'm a superhero. So the minute you reframe that in your head and start a sentence with that, all of a sudden the whole direction of the conversation and the situation will, will change. The other bit. Just backtracking a little bit on what you were saying is is where the way you are approaching situations, which is gold, you people often forget that they've got a multitude of experience and a huge skillset that is very transferable into the new thing.
05:17The renewed yet. So I might be a Newbie at certain things you were talking about. Obviously the property investing, but the the years of experience, you've got another aspects of life they're going to pull through to that and all of a sudden you start to understand that you're going to pull on that skill set and pull it through and go, actually I understand this is just looking at it through a slightly different, slightly different Lens, so it's really about how your, your entering a room, how you're entering conversation, how you're, you're, you're, you're setting yourself up. We had usually the weekends example, a group of unsure people who less feeling a whole lot sure about what they're able to do and what they need to do and how to do it. It's, it's almost like they've mapped, got the formula that allows them to go, I am a runner.
05:57The, I'm one of the ladies I spoke to this week, she's, she's done more ultra marathons than I have more day stage races than I have because I haven't yet done one. And I'm sitting there telling and explaining this to us saying, actually, if we look on paper, you, we could argue that you're more of a run in the lamb. Who Do you think some more the way she is, she's like, you're the, you're the runner actually. You're, you're more of a runner. So I should be one. I should be the one. And I, I definitely think I'm a runner, so it's it's just, yeah, qualifying it in your head. So the, the, the confidence lists as you, as you move forward.
06:28Yeah. And you don't need to be the absolute best in the world. So even be a teacher like your, your, you know, like you said, you're running teaching and you were my coach for a decade before you even got into business. Yeah. Did I go to you like you haven't run 150 ultramarathons or anything? Are you see for not as experienced or not logical enough to help me? No, the opposite because you can see it from completely different it's perspective. You come from the science and the whole logical thinking and almond and the sub, you know, athlete state of yes I have the experience and that's why what we do is a really super good combination of experience and science behind the whole thing. And this is, you know, just understanding who you are, what you're capable of and just see the transformation and the people over the weekend from coming in all nervous coming into this new environment and Ireton we go to a course or a conference or learning, it's, it's a scary, you know, uncomfortable feeling when you first arrive at the front door.
07:26Hasn't had, nobody knows each other. And you sort of like, oh my God, what am I doing here? And, and I are going to be super athletes. You know, this is, this is some of the mentality of people coming into an afterwards that tell us this, you know, I came in and expecting everyone to be superheroes. You know, and expecting to be told you're going to train harder and go more, you know, Rara [inaudible] and all that sort of shit. And they, it wasn't what they got. They actually got a whole lot of amazing information on how to, for health, those of, of what they came for, but they asked that they lift understanding the why and they leave feeling empowered in the, the doubtful thoughts that they're having, the fears that they're experiencing, the guilt that they are experiencing is common to the entire room.
08:18And that includes you and me too. Yeah, exactly. It's so powerful. I just to understand that she had experience instead of putting everybody else up on a pedestal. And I'm down here as the lowly beginner on any side and we tend to do that. We see, we tend, you know, to always see everyone else better than us and as having everything together. And when you look around the social media world that we live in, that's very much water's portrayed in, you're always comparing somebody's Instagram moment, which is a highly tier moments. Okay. Of the best moment during the run. At the top of the hill or the, for the camera, you're not seeing the grind and the shit and the tears and the stuff on the way to the top of that man's and you're only getting the snapshot and then you and your life are going wrong.
09:13I couldn't do that. And that'd be the main, everybody else is running a hundred and ultra-marathons a week. You know, that's the sort of feeling you start to get. And you gotta remember like social media media is just so curated. So if I spoke with, for example, knows exactly what you're into and we'll feed you a thousand runners doing a thousand crazy suits things every week. So you get this, this misconception that the whole world is out there running bigger than you are when it started. You know, Facebook was just picking out what you're interested in and there therein lies the danger. And you know, this has been discussed before with the elections and things like that. You are getting feed what you are actually interested in and therefore skews your view of what you're seeing and what you're actually experiencing online. And just being aware of that whole dynamic.
10:03And this isn't just in social media but very, you know, it's very prevalent in today's world that we see a lot of beautiful plastic people with lovely photos and then we think that what we're experiencing in our internal world, you comparing it now, bad moments and hard moments against somebody beautiful picture and it's, it's just completely an unrealistic perception of the world. And this is like the beauty of being something like a live seminar like we did. People have a perception of me, they have a perception of you and then when they actually get to meet you, it's nothing like that. They realize you're just as human as everyone else with the site.
10:42Exactly. Exactly. And that that is the most, one of the most comforting things for everyone at the weekend. It was by far one of the most compelling things for them to just, you could see the relaxation come across their faces when they were like, these guys are normal.
10:57Very unfortunate.
10:59These guys, these guys are more that their normal stuff, they, they're there, they're like us. And then once you realize that you can stop, then it's people stop feeling like an imposter and they start feeling like they're at home. And that's, that's really what we want you to take away from today is that yet we're not imposters we can feel at home. We understand our why well enough and we can relax and do what we do. We need to.
11:21Yeah. And they, and so imposter syndrome is the for when you, maybe you go through life and you're starting to feel like, oh, I shouldn't be here. I'm not good enough. I can't be teaching this cause I'm not the number one expert in the world. You know, like just if I want to go to the gym and build some muscles, do I go and engage Arnold Schwarzenegger now because he's like, you know, like so far out of my perception of what could possibly be then, you know, just having someone one or two steps ahead of you or three steps ahead of you is all need. You don't need to be the best in the world. So if you're that teacher too, you don't need to be 100 million steps are here, you know, and we talked with other run coaches too that are, you know, they have a special niche and they go, oh, we're not like you though. Like, you know, this is often the conversation I've had with people. I'm just taking absolute beginners and I go, y'all know, I'm taking absolute beginners to, Oh, I thought you'd only be working with the elite. No.
12:21And everyone has the area with they feeling comfortable, you know, and I'm almost certainly not comfortable with Olympic athletes, you know, you have never been one. And I don't have, you know, that skill set or those genetics and I understand more the battles of the everyday person and therefore I'm comfortable in that area teaching to people that have these issues, you know, and I don't really give a shit about the top 1% but good on them. You know, they'll find better coaches than me for that. And so it's understanding we use it in the world and then setting in that power and then using those words as Neal, seeing those in your, in your thought processes saying, I am a master of this. I am a runner, I am strong. I am able to do this. Not, oh, I can't do that. And Oh my gosh, that's so amazing what you do. I couldn't even do that. And all that. If you hear yourself tight saying those things, just understand that that person's just a little bit further up the mountain than on top of the mountain either. You know, we're all on differing degrees of different mountains
13:26And nice people we can learn so much from. And that's the, that's the thing I've got very, very comfortable with over the years is, as you said at the start or the start of the podcast today is the asking just go and, well actually that's, that's amazing. How'd you do that? Being very comfortable that you don't know and getting someone to explain to you how they've put there. That's exactly how we've moved through and how we've gone out is to go, oh, hang on a minute, explain that again. I don't, I don't fully get it. I don't understand it. And then all of a sudden you learn and realize that actually that person was in the same position as we were last year and all that and it's got no bit further ahead so we can try the information and move forward. I think as well to add into your why is just really drilling down, which is probably another podcast in itself, lesion really working out where your purposes, so really understanding what your purpose is, what your position is and purposes in life.
14:11I want you to get comfortable with that and you understand what you want to be sharing, what you want to be doing and you want to be. It's really easy to be in your own skin and we're not falling into that trap of making the mistake of I should be this or I should be that to the company every day, just sit in their company going, this is me, this is what I want to be doing. I know what I'm doing, I know how I'm doing it and I'm not looking around again. You should do that. I'll try and do it and it just feels wrong. Move the really tight the times, work out what you, what you should be doing, the purposes
14:38In life and where you will meet to be studying in life and they realize that you can't do everything. And this is the one of the beautiful things about getting older. You know like there's a lot of negatives about getting older and we all know those very well, but there's a hell of a lot of benefits to in, it's called wisdom and exactly yearning. And if you have an open mind and if you start to develop your skills set, then you, you know, just because you've been alive for a long time, you've got a lot more experiences to pull on and to share from. And if you keep an open mindset and continue your education, then you can end up feeling a lot more stronger as you get older then, you know, I know certainly I do. Like if I look back even 10 15 years ago where I was in as to her, I am now, as you know,
15:18It's not there. It's night and day different. I remember from when we first met the language you used to use that and the language you use now is it's night and day and we will evolve. We will change and we should be comfortable. We should be counseled with doing that. Just to educate ourselves on an ongoing, under a hundred percent. And it's yeah, I mean there's a challenge off the back of this should be how many times this week and the listeners go out and say, everyone that's listening. I am. So I am.dot, dot. Yeah. I can.dot, dot. And I do that though. How many times should you get that in? And just the saying it that saying out loud or I am a runner or cam run, I do run. Is, is it just, it makes me feel, makes me feel better. Saying out loud. Yes, great.
16:00And stop apologizing for existing. They would just go through the whole as all, sorry, I'm not an expert on this area or I'm love this and I'm not of that. Just having the confidence to say I am and even if you don't feel it, and the in the moment that you're saying it, you're suggesting to your subconscious and we did a podcast last week on reprogramming subconscious. Correct. We haven't heard that. Go back and listen to that because reprogramming your subconscious is what we're talking about here we are talking about and it's repeated use of that language where you want to be even if you're not the, now I am a master of x, Y,Z , that I might not be yet, but that's what I'm putting into my mind next for suggesting to my mind that I am to my subconscious that I am and it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.
16:46It will if you keep saying it and if you keep understanding it and be going through that. The deep work last week, I've taught talk about, you know, self hypnosis and things like that that can speed the process up. And you know, like I was listening to another podcast today and it was all about, you know focusing on the end goal, you know. So even though it might seem ridiculously far away, I want you to give yourself permission to set a big audacious goal and sit there and visualize that future. Where are you gonna be in three years time? Where are you going to be in five years time? If you fulfill this dream and you're gonna, you know, be running new and B or are you going to be running Badwater, you know, and there can be a ridiculous strain seeing yourself, this, visualize the newspaper articles being written about, you visualize the, the stories being told, visualize the book that's going to come out.
17:45This is the sort of stuff I do. And then I work backwards from air. Okay, that might be a pipe dream right now, but it's near as my, my indicator of where the hell I'm going. That's my true north. If you like. And then I have, I work back from the, so if I want to get to the year, what do I need to do in the next five years? What you'll typically find, so is that you'll go but this so far away, but if you in the first year just to one 10th of what it would take to get there, if you find that you gather momentum over the time. Okay. So the first year you might be just out of the blocks, you might just get your first 10 k done, your first half marathon done, you still dreaming of Badwater water. Okay. But the second year you might get to an ultramarathon in the Fuji, you might give to opt for marathons three ultra-marathons. I mean, Bang, you're there, it speeds up. And this is the power of like compounding interest, right? I'm learning all about compounding interests in regards to real estate. The power of it is that the interest gets the interest on the interest.
18:56It really, really is gold. And the, I often say to people as well that if I, and when people are looking at it, if you could say 50% of this big goal that you've taken yourself in the next 12 months, would you take it and no one has ever said, no, I'll take it into your pull in. It's even taking that much and watching how that, that grow and that grow and that grow. Don't look for perfection and look for consistency. Yeah. You consistent. Then it's going to, it's going to happen. Most people that are looking for exact perfection, it falls over
19:28If there's one for a commitment thing. Yes. If you do, you might think it's an unrealistic expectation to sit this lofty goal, but you've got, and you can't even see the pathway to getting there. But by taking those steps in, making a commitment to work on it every single day or every single week, depending on the goal and just doing half an hour every day on it, or you know, I'm going to commit to reading one book a week, or I'm going to commit to going to the gym three times a week, or I'm going to commit to a meeting with my friends and running for half an hour, you know, twice a week, whatever those micro commitments are that build it into a daily habits. And then that gets snowballs, a snowball effect so that you actually start to gather momentum and then all of a sudden when you look back what you've achieved in a 12 month period, say it's just like, holy heck, I really did that and that
20:22All of a sudden you're saying, I am, I can, and I do.
20:25Yeah, and you started the heat for the style. Getting out of the stat box is a really hard one. And then keeping that momentum in the first months when you haven't seen progress yet and you won't, you might get some quick ones. Like typically with runners, what we say is that it's like absolute beginners I'm talking about and they don't even know how to, you know, like run nonstop for minutes is that they get some really quick ones within a month we can have them running for half an hour straight through and the lot and then typically slows down a little bit. And so it's understanding the nature of learning and the nature of plateaus and understanding how to push through to the next level and not giving up on that allow, you know we don't, you know, working with my mum wants, again, to bring in an analogy from there, we would have times when she'd stopped to make leaps and bounds forward.
21:15Not Literally, she's still not leaving valley anywhere, but she's, she's getting there. We would make really big gains in a very short time and then would have months of nothing, absolutely nothing, no progress. And when I look back over those months, I'm going, and those are the times when people give up. And those are the Times where you've got to push down, double down and keep going, keep it going. When you push through to the next layer, that's when you get another lot of, you know, last fall and Lisa spoken. Totally, totally agree. Yeah. So I think that's probably enough for today guys. I hope that there was a bit of a help for you. Another mindset up. You know, this is a running podcast and a fitness podcast and is, but there's a hell of a lot of mental stuff because to be honest, this is a big piece of the puzzle. Huge base of the puzzle with your runner, an athlete, a person and business. You know, in the corporate world there's all these same challenges that come across and this is why the crossing, but the crossover between all the disciplines, you learn it for running, but then you actually learn it for life or vice versa, you know? So it really helps. So Neil, any last words to end on? You know, phrasing things positively and not making excuses. You know, apologize, I am a runner, I am a runner.
22:40I'm a master. I want you to go and write the list guys. I've got a list on my fridge over there. Let's go on. I am a master of like this 50 things on this list that I'd say oneself every time I go to the fridge, which is quite often cause I like date, I have to read three or four of them before I opened the door. And they reinforces in my mind on a subconscious level repetitively, repetitively, I am a master. And then I'll go around in my head saying I am this. And I am that in my mind, you know, and I, I haven't tire runs. Like we don't want to treat my leg, do this for example, where it's boring as hell on monetary mall. There's nothing to look at. Anyway, so I just go into this mantra and I'll pick a couple of things that I'm working on to reprogram my mind.
23:26And I'll just repeat the mantra over and over and over for a good half an hour until I drive myself and sign. And then I'll go home and I'll start to see the fruit of that Labor, not from, not only physically from the training session, but mentally as well. So there's a quick tip for you to go and do that. Easy wins, easy wins. All right guys, we'll as usual, if you want to reach out to us, you can get hold of Neil and I, lisa@runninghotcoaching.com or neil@runninghotcoaching.com. Check out our website to Lisa tomothy.com and check out all their programs, their mindset university epigenetics program and running programs. Come and join us on our Facebook group. You can find it just a look up Facebook groups, Lisa Tamati. And hit us up on social media and we're really active on Instagram. You know, Facebook and Youtube. We have huge youtube channel on that point.
24:17I just wanted to remind people, actually I've got about, I think it's eight documentaries on my youtube channel, full length running documentaries from places like running through the Gobi desert or death valley, the Himalayas, Australia, the outback of Australia. There's a whole lot of good stuff there. If you want some full length movies and you're sick of Netflix, come and check out my channel. Much more interesting. Certainly better than the Kardashians I can tell you that much. So yeah, check those out. Just hop on over to the youtube channel and put in Lisa Tamati. And I've got a playlist here of ultra marathon documentary, so check that out, right guys, thanks for your time today. We'll see you again next week. Thanks. Okay.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
06 Jul 2017
Ep 18: Phil Kingsley Jones - Life is hilarious if you are Welsh
01:01:13
Phil Kingsley Jones is a Welsh legend. Comedian, Entertainer, Rugby Coach, Sports Agent and Manager, Business development manager, Author, Speaker, Coal Miner and Pie seller all describe this lovable rogue.
Born in the Valleys of Wales he became an internationally acclaimed comedian touring with some of the biggest acts of the 70's and 80's from the likes of the Beach Boys, to Neil Sedaka to Cliff Richards to Lionel Ritchie and the Comodores to Dr Hook and Frankie Valli, you name them Phil worked with them.
In the 1980's Phil fell in love with a Kiwi girl and moved to New Zealand where he went back to his early passion Rugby, later becoming a coach and Sport Manager. He was Manager to the legend that was Jonah Lomu who was one of the first Rugby professionals. Jonah was like a son to Phil and we hear of Jonahs early career and how special this man was. In this interview Phil shares his life philosophy, his wicked sense of humour and gives an open and candid insight into the roller coaster ride that has been his life so far. All with a very welsh chuckle.
16 Apr 2020
How To Stop Fear Getting The Better of You
00:26:05
We are all facing scary and uncertain times right now and learning ways to mitigate fear and anxiety and tools to help reduce stress and help you make better decisions are really important right now.
Mental toughness coach Lisa Tamati shares her insights on how to thrive in the tough times and how to keep control over your physiology.
We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:
For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com
For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.
Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...
Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"
Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information
ABOUT THE BOOK:
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com.
Speaker 2: (00:13) Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Welcome back again, I hope you guys are okay during this coronavirus crisis. That's certainly a big change for us. And today because of that, I wanted to do a session on how to not meet fear, get the better of you all my tips and tricks for helping stay focused at this tough time and how you can stay on track. Um, before I go over to the actual interview, I wanted to, um, remind you that I've just released my book relentless. It is available on my website. Um, you can, I'll put it in the show notes, but you can just hit on over to lisatamati.com and under the shop button you'll find it, the F I'd love you to check it out. And it's actually really good book for this type of crisis because it's all about mindset and it's all about how to keep focus and how to deal with, you know, going up against great odds and really difficult and uncertain times.
Speaker 2: (01:02) So you want to check that out. That's relentless how a mother and daughter defied the odds. Go over to my website and check that out. Also at running hot coaching, we've got a special going on at the moment for 12 weeks during this whole lockdown time and in the whole coronavirus wanted to be able to offer extra value and to make it, you know, really affordable for people because we have a whole, not only the running programs now we have a full live workout program that you can do and it's only $49 US dollars to join for the 12 weeks. So if we'd been sitting on the fence for awhile thinking about joining us now would be a perfect time to do that. Especially if you're in lockdown and you want your running training programs and at home workouts. All of it's in there right over to the show.
Speaker 2: (01:46) Hi guys, just want me to do a session on not letting fear get the better of you. So about the mix of crosses with the coronavirus, we're probably feeling a lot of fear right now. There's a lot of uncertainty there. Jobs are in dangerous and some of us are incomes and so on. So I wanted to do some practical tips that you can do to control the fear response in your body. Because number one, if you have a fear response going on right now, your immune system is going to be compromised and that's not going to be good as if you're going to be fighting this far as which we hope you won't be. But if you are, you want to make sure your immune system is, is up and running. So the first thing that I want you to look into is done for medic breathing, deep dogmatic breathing.
Speaker 2: (02:30) Every time you start to feel out of control, feel triggered, feel stress is to do some deep breathing in through the nose, holding for about four seconds out for four seconds and hold for four seconds. Now that is called box breathing. Now you can do it in a different rhythm. If you've got a really good set of lungs, you might get to seven or eight holding it for that long and doing this just I do this 10, 11 times a day. It's, it's my go to as soon as I'm feeling triggered, as soon as I'm starting to feel upset. Now what does deep do? Well, it stimulates your parasympathetic nervous system. You have to submit two nervous systems, your parasympathetic and sympathetic. You want to be stimulating it this time. And there's a lot of fear around a lot of anxiety. The parasympathetic. Now when you stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system, you are lowering the levels of cortisol and adrenaline that are being produced.
Speaker 2: (03:23) Now these are hormones that are really for fight or flight. So back in the caveman days, which our body is still, you know, back there, we haven't evolved to being really where we are in our current world. So we still react to, uh, outside simulates some, you know, I was fear. So back in the day we might've been running away from a tiger, right? And so we needed this fight or flight response. So the amygdala, which is a part of your brain, deep in your brain, that's your limbic brain, that reptilian brain and its mediate responses to put up your heart, a heart rate, increase your breathing rate, uh, make you shit shallow breathe. It causes in your vision so that you have tunnel vision. Uh, it takes away blood from your prefrontal cortex and gives it all the blood into your muscles and so that you're ready to either fight off or run away.
Speaker 2: (04:13) One of the two, the final fight syndrome, you'll know the SES. So that's all control where the medulla, now when you do this, you are taking away energy from your immune system, from your rest and recovery system. And you know, this was a great thing back in the day when we were had periodic stress was situations where we needed to run away from the line really fast. But in our day and age we are constantly bombarded with things like emails or problems with work or a phone call from your shitty boss or something that causes the same response. And it can get to the level where it's chronically your chronic amount of stress and you are constantly in this fight or flight state. So at this time when the coronavirus is here and you've got all this uncertainty, it's really, really important that we start to calm down the parasympathetic nervous system or stimulate, sorry, the parasympathetic nervous system and get things quiet and down.
Speaker 2: (05:10) Stop the release of that cortisol and that adrenaline going full bore. And now you want those things at certain times but not constantly because you want your immune system to be operating well and you want to be thinking really clearly and there is a break in your decision making ability when you are in the stressed out state. So going back to the deep breathing now, this deep breathing technique will instantly, and I made really, really quickly start to calm the body down. Another great technique of course is meditation. And this doesn't have to be, you know, sitting on the floor, cross legged in an absolute silence that works for a lot of people and it's fantastic if you can quiet your brain down that way. But it also could just be going for a walk outside and we're all a little bit limited in what we're still at the moment allowed to go outside into get some fresh air.
Speaker 2: (06:01) And that brings me to the next point. It's taking, you know, um, control of, of some of the things that you can and not focusing on the things that you can't control right now. Taking control of the basics, good hydration, good nutrition, good sleep habits. All of these things are going to help you to stay in control and make good decisions. Okay. And not focusing just on the negative. The next technique that I wanted to give you is visualization. Now I use this a lot with my athletes and I've certainly used it in my career as an athlete. Visualizing a positive outcome. Visualizing yourself as if it's in a, if it's an a running race, obviously envisaging the whole race and the more real you can make this visualization, the bidder in the cause that we are facing, visualize yourself being in control and being healthy.
Speaker 2: (06:51) Visualize yourself and being able to adapt really quickly to this, to the situations at hand and you're getting on top of it and your business is going to be okay and your job is going to be all right. And when you visualize, your brain doesn't differentiate between what is real and what is imagined and okay, you can't control whether you're going to lose your job next week. You can't control movies outside variables, but you can stop your body going into this panic state because that isn't going to help anybody. What you want is your decision making ability on fire. So these visualization techniques can help you to start to regulate that into see a positive outcome. The next thing I want you to think about is the challenge versus threat scenario. So if we see something is a threat, and let's be honest, the crime viruses a bloody big threat right now to everything, to our health, to our loved ones, health to our society.
Speaker 2: (07:50) But if we can start to really position they in their minds to see it more as an opportunity or a challenge, then that changes the way we perceive it and we are able to then coat a whole lot better. I'll give you an example from a noncurrent divorce situation, but again from my aesthetic Korea, okay, so if I'm looking at this massive race that I'm doing, it might be in death Valley, it might be in the [inaudible] and the Gobi desert or a Niger. Now, as I'm saying that as a threat and it's going to be terrifying and it's gonna be horrific, then guess what's going to happen? My body's going to shut down. I'm going to be in the fight or flight mode. I'm not going to be reacting really well. I'm not going to be coping when you, well, if I can reframe it in my mind to being an amazing opportunity to have this wonderful adventure and to have to turn it into a challenge in an a, an ability to be able to see this in a positive light.
Speaker 2: (08:48) And I want you to think about this. Cisco rhino virus is going to give us some benefits. There are some good things that are going to come out of it for each and every one of us. It might be a complete pervert in your lives and you're going to end up doing another job and get out of that dead end job that you've been stuck in but too scared to leave and now you have to leave. So you're going to have to think and learn and redirect. Maybe that's going to be a good thing at the end of the day, none of us actually know. So they're good. They could be real positive things. Going back to a situation like with my mum and I've, you know, I've got my books here in the background. This the story is a really powerful one for the situation that we're going through.
Speaker 2: (09:28) When I was faced with mom's aneurysm and that's the fact that she was probably not going to survive and if she did, she was going to have massive brain damage, which she did have and that she was never going to do anything again and I could've taken that prognosis. And just accepted it and taking no action and stayed on decided, no, I'm going to use this. These people telling me that there's no chance and there's no way I'm going to use that as motivation to prove them wrong and I'm going to make this the greatest comeback story and I'm going to get my mum back. And those were the thoughts that I feed into my mind so that I was able to take big, strong action and so that I was able to cope with the stresses that were come at us and it's been, you know, a four year long battle, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2: (10:12) There were times when I was on the ground balling my eyes out and not knowing which way to go forward. The thing is I did keep moving forward and I did keep looking for the next decision. I hate to make the next situation. The next opportunity and that attitude of going all in is one is lead to him miraculous recovery. This is a one in a million recovery, but it's not a one in a million because she was anything special or because I'm anything special. It was a one in a million recovery because we never even gave up and we kept fighting and we looked for the opportunities and we saw the beauty in this process, and this is why I've written the book, is because I want other people to have a blueprint for your mindset and what it takes to go all in on a challenge.
Speaker 2: (10:57) And in this Corrado bar situation, we're going to have to go all in. Some of us, this is gonna be, you know, a threat to our incomes and our lifestyles and a massive of change. And we can either crawl up into a facial ball and start crying our eyes out and go, well I can't take any action or we could be warriors and we can stand up and go. Not a lot. I'm not going to take this line down. I'm going to go down sliding if I'm going to go down in going all in with this, with a situation with mum, I know that I could have done all of that and still failed and still lost here. That wasn't the point though. I had no option but to go all that because the alternative was certain days in certain loss. So I had a tiny chance and I took that tiny chance and when everybody told me it was impossible, I just kicked all moving and kept ignoring the people that told me it was bad.
Speaker 2: (11:49) So right now what you also want to be doing is surrounding yourself with positive people. If you're listening to this, but you know this video, then you probably want of those people that is looking for a positive input and good messages. And that's fantastic because you are the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. So if you are around positive people who have a direction, who are saying, right guys, this is the way we're going and this is why we're going to think this is the way forward. And you start listening to positive messages instead of the ones who are, Oh my God, the world is ending. It's apocalypse now and it's all going to be horrific. And you know, like we all have moments like there, don't get me wrong that I don't have those moments, but I keep them in check.
Speaker 2: (12:34) And then I turned my mind around again and I tune it again and I tune it again. Every time those negative thoughts come up, I start to turn them around. So I wanted to now talk about, uh, exposure therapy. Now this is another therapy that can be really, really helpful if you are feeling a lot of fear. Now this is not exposure to the virus. We don't want that. But this is like when you are feeling fear for a certain situation or a certain thing that you have to do. And it might be like having to change your profession because you know someone's going to has to. Um, I want you to understand that the more you do something, the more it's going to be, the less you're going to be reacting to it. So I'll just give you a simple example of getting on phone calls.
Speaker 2: (13:19) If you hate sales calls, which I used to hate doing sales calls. Now I've changed my perception of what that call is about in term repetition and doing it over and over and over again. It becomes actually a conversation with a friend if the coms nothing to be scared of and most of the things that we face in our life that we are scared of are actually not physical threats. Okay. The coronavirus could be a physical threat to you or your loved ones. I'm not mitigating them, but a lot of the fee is that we have running around in their tummy and then their minds at the moment that it's just going around and around like a hamster wheel is things that I'm never ever going to happen. I even say that the thoughts that we have in our head, the disasters scenarios that we're playing out are not going to happen, so why focus on it?
Speaker 2: (14:07) Why not put your energies into focusing on how can I make this the best opportunity for me, for my business, for my profession? How can I help other people? How can I turn this into something that is good for me and my world and my business? I am using this as an opportunity to pivot, to change very quickly, to be adaptable. And I've lost my income. I'll be honest with you, at least six months, I don't have any income. Now I'm a speaker. That's what I do. I go around to conferences, well there are not conferences going on, but I'm not going to sit here and start crying about it. I'm gonna change my perception of what I can do. And then I'm going to pivot really quickly into doing other things and focusing on the positive and they don't get to be prepared also for when life comes back to normal.
Speaker 2: (14:52) And we'll we go again. So it's your perception of things is controlling your thoughts. Now I want you, I'm also studying at the moment the functional genomics and this is the study of DNA and genes and how they affect the way everything in your body from methylation to mood and behavior to cardiovascular health, to um, detoxification. All of these areas. Okay. But I wanted to talk to you briefly about a couple of the genes that are in your head and I won't go on to the specifics. I'm going to be writing a couple of blog posts, uh, over the next few weeks and I'm still studying this area of science, but it's absolutely fascinating. There are a couple of genes that really, um, control or give you a predisposition to thinking a certain way and you can get yourself tested and DNA and all that sort of stuff later on when all this crosses over and you find out what you have a predisposition for, um, your edge or to being a gene for example, sample, which is y our adrenal, uh, Jane, if you like, the pains are which variation of the gene as to how long that adrenal and is going to be active on your sip as in your body.
Speaker 2: (16:03) And if it's, if you've got the gene where it's going to be attached it to the recipients for a long time and active, you're going to have a harder time meeting golf things. You're going to have a harder time, you're going to have a stronger emotional and printer reaction to things. Um, then another person, another saying is that the brain derived neurotrophic neurotrophic factor, which I'm writing a blog post on now because this has to do with brain rehabilitation, but it also has to do with your mood and your behavior and the how, how susceptible you are to depression and a negative frame of mind. And if you have that, the hamster wheel brain that goes over and over and over. So what I want you to take away from this, without getting into the specifics of which Jane is to realize that every single person is different.
Speaker 2: (16:49) Hey, do have a different set of genes. And so we all do experience things in a different way. So if you have someone in your most ho is very prone to panic, is very prone to having neurotic thoughts or the hamster wheel going over and over and getting stuck in a thought pattern and not being able to shift at least understanding some of the factors that are in play here and that their genes just may be predisposing them to doing that. And I'm going to share this blog post that I'm writing at the moment on BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor and what you can do to increase set, uh, in order to help elevate your mood. One of those things for example, is to uh, for the baby and is a example. This is to go and do exercise. Now if you're doing at least 30 to 45 minutes of exercise at 70 to 75% of your heart rate, you're going to increase the production of brain derived neurotrophic and that's going to elevate your mood.
Speaker 2: (17:51) And this is why I run, let's get the run is high and I know all of us just enjoy running for the running site. Sometimes we don't even feel like going out there, but after half an hour out there, what happens? You mood elevates. What's that? There's some brain derived neurotrophic factor, inaction, other things that also stimulate that and what elevates your mode. Things like having a hot shower or hot bath or being in a hot warm environment or getting more sunlight to make more vitamin D, which will also help you produce more brain derived neurotrophic factor. All of these things are really important also in the brain rehab side, but I won't go into that right now, but just to understand, genetically speaking, we all have different ways of processing things in our brain and having some love and care and empathy for people who've, who don't see them.
Speaker 2: (18:39) Some things the same way as you do, who react very differently and some people will have more a deeper emotional imprint. Then other people, some people will be able to get over things much easier because they have the right combination of genes and another person doesn't have that. That is not to be fatalistic and say, well, those people are babied, is to find out the what can you do? Like the saunas and the hot bows and the exercise and the right supplementation and all of that sort of stuff to help you if you are one of those people affected, increase or head of HIPAA. What resilience when it comes to your emotional wellbeing. So more about that later, but for today's podcast it just wants you to think about some of those things that I've covered off. So I want you to be stimulating your parasympathetic nervous system.
Speaker 2: (19:31) That means calming your body down. That means stopping the stress and the adrenaline, the cortisol from pouring out all day, all day long. How are you going to do that? You're going to do that through meditation to that true connection to nature, which I've forgotten to mention. You know, like going outside, listening to the birds, looking at the beauty in the trees, looking at the flowers, standing and staring at the beach. If you're still allowed to do that, anything that will connect you and ground you to mother nature will calm your system down. Doing a exercise of course is also going to do there anything that's going to calm the system down. However one portion, don't go and do extremes, amounts of exercise because that will have the opposite effect. Don't overreach at this time. Firstly for your immune system and also for your, you don't want to upset your whole minds and get everything out of balance.
Speaker 2: (20:23) Okay, so you want to be, um, a little bit conservative with your training at the moment. Just nice chain tool and doing things like working in and state of just working out. So not just the, you know, running and breathing and hard, hard work, but also aiding and the stretching, the, the yoga, the plankung. So things that are going to calm the body down, especially in the evening when you're wanting to get that slate. Because remember, sleep is absolute King, so doing these basics right and getting good sleep, if you can get it. I was sleep right now would be really gold. It'll help you emotionally cope with the situation and not fall off the DPN and be short tempered and doing all those crazy things. Now, just before I go, you have this thing in the, in the Brian like I said, called the amygdala, which is a very formative part of the brain that controls a lot of these trigger responses.
Speaker 2: (21:16) And you know, in the past, I'll be honest with you, I've had a lot of problems with anger management. So I think I've got some warrior dreams from my, my Maori side, either that or the German or Irish sort of data. Um, and I've been triggered in the past and reacted in ways that I, you know, was not proud of afterwards. Um, and also learning to, to manage these reactions. Now a lot better. I wouldn't sound perfect, but I'm a lot bitter. The amygdala reacts before your, uh, your prefrontal cortex kicks into gear. It's very primitive. It's very lightning fast. So if you're feeling triggered right now, you know one of the things that I'm worried about in this crosses is the mystic piece going up is people doing things that they wouldn't normally do because they are stressed out and they're frightened and they're doing all these things and they were make deliver, starting to take control.
Speaker 2: (22:07) So I want you to learn just a couple of trucks to keep it under control. One of them is that deep breathing, if you're feeling triggered, if you started to have fights in the family cause you're in close quarters, you've got the kid screaming, you don't know how you're going to pay the bills, your businesses going on the and you're fighting and you know this, this is all us. I think we are all feeling this type of stress right now. Then getting a controlling amygdala and not acting in a triggered state. You know, walking away, going to the other end of the house, doing some deep breathing, starting to tune your logical brain on the way I do this. And getting blood back to the logical brain. Cause the amygdala takes it away from the and helps you, makes you make bad decisions. The rang, I get a controller that as I start to do some logical problem solving things in my brain, like counting backwards from a hundred and lots of seven and I have to go, Oh, how much is that 193 and so on.
Speaker 2: (23:04) And I have to actually think about it. And that makes me calm down again and gives me a chance to get on top of that adrenaline and cortisol that's come out and makes me want to have a scratch. Um, cause that's not good. And what you're doing when you get into this triggered state also in, in the anger response is you, uh, releasing the cortisol, which is, which is pumping out your blood sugars. So remember those begin angry and you're going to weight problems. You making things worse. You're going to put on more weight because you've increased your cortisol, you're going to leave the four have, have more, a whole warfare. Okay. So there's one, there's a really good reason not to get angry and to stay cool and calm. And this is one of the reasons why doing yoga and [inaudible] and all of those debriefing and all that actually helps you lose weight, which is not the topic of today's conversation, but it does say it because it's actually lowering the cortisol, the stress levels in the body.
Speaker 2: (24:01) Interesting, isn't it? How we, uh, such complex characters and if we understand more about our physiology and our biology and how things actually interplay, then they can really, really help us in overcoming all these challenges that we're facing. So that's makes us very, guys, I hope this has been helpful to you or please decide that the, or if you want to reach out to me, please do. I'm, you know, this is what I, I'm begging to the mental game. I'm big into the mindset and mental toughness and leadership in, you know, um, some of the lessons that I've learned along in my now quite long nights, um, and sharing those insights with you. Not from a place of I know better because God knows I still have a hell of a lot of things to learn. But from applied, so via I've, I've experienced a few things, bring around the block a few times and wanting to share some of these insights.
Speaker 2: (24:53) I do that also on my podcast, which is called pushing the limits. I would love you to go and subscribe to pushing the limits because I have some of the greatest minds. I don't know how I get some of these amazing people on the air, but I do, if you look back over the episodes that I've managed to record in the last four years, you've got Nobel prize winning scientists. You've got, you know, some of the top scientists actually in the world, some of the top doctors in the world, some of the top athletes in the world. And I'm not exaggerating, there's been some absolute legends on my show. Say, you know, I be a good way to spend a few of those nails we stuck at home. Um, uh, listening to the podcast is called pushing the limits. You can find it on iTunes, on Lipson, on Stitcher, or via my website, at least at [inaudible] dot com and while you're the gone grab one of my books, one of my friends, uh, especially running this right now is a super book for you to be reading, to strengthen your mind. And, um, really thank you for your time today. And we'll see you again soon.
Speaker 1: (25:49) that's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
28 Oct 2021
Ultramarathoning: How to Do the Impossible with Dean Karnazes
01:04:16
When was the last time you got up and ran? Simply jogging around the neighbourhood during the weekends to keep fit may be daunting for some. Now, imagine the sheer amount of dedication, endurance, and resilience ultramarathoning requires. This type of long-distance running is an activity that tests the limits of human endurance. You might think running a thousand miles is impossible, but today’s guest continues to prove others wrong. He’s on a mission to exceed his limits and inspire others to do the same.
Dean Karnazes joins us in this episode to get up close and personal about his experiences in ultramarathoning. He candidly shares the highs and lows, the triumphs and defeats. We also find out the importance of failure and finding magic in misery.
If you’re interested in discovering how you can build your character, embrace pain and failure, and get inspired to push your limits, then this episode is for you.
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Discover how to cope with the ups and downs of ultramarathoning.
Learn about the importance of pain and failure.
Get inspired by Dean’s valuable takeaways from his career.
If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/
For my other two best-selling books,Running HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Dean was supposed to go on a 1000-mile run across New South Wales.
After boarding a jet to Australia, he found that the pandemic situation was getting worse.
And so, Dean and Pat Farmer will be doing their run in a military base instead.
Although he’s quarantined inside a hotel room, Dean always stays moving and does bodyweight exercises to remain active.
It was challenging to go from California, where 80% have been vaccinated, to Australia, which is still in lockdown.
[11:18] Chronological and Biological Age
Chronologically, Dean is closer to 60 than 50 years old.
There are various ways to test your biological age, like C-reactive proteins and inflammation.
Tune in to the full episode to learn more about what else goes into calculating your biological age.
[14:17] Dean’s Greek Heritage
Dean's mother is from Ikaria, a Blue Zones with the highest concentration of centenarians worldwide.
People in Ikaria live long, healthy lives.
They don’t pay attention to time and live in a strong community. Therefore, they are not prone to stress.
Dean doesn’t have any back, muscle, or joint pain.
[18:50] Know What Your Body is Built For
People are built to run at different speeds and distances. Various factors affect what you're optimised to do.
What’s important is knowing the things that are optimal for your health.
Dean has run over 300 traditional marathons in his career. He has also seen people well past their 70s who are still physically able and active.
[22:04] What isA Runner’s HighAbout?
ARunner’s Highis about the changes that he, the world, and ultramarathoning has undergone.
Ultramarathoning impacts the people closest to you.
Dean wanted to write a true and honest story about his reflections over the past three decades.
[24:00] Running the Western States Endurance Run
This 100-mile trail race starts in Sierra Nevada, California.
Dean first did this race in 1994. To him, this was an unforgettable experience.
Going back after 13 times, Dean found that watching his dad and son crew for him and seeing how things changed over time was transformative for him.
Dean recounts his experiences in detail inA Runner’s High.
[25:54] The Surprises of Parenting
Kids grow faster than parents can adjust to them growing up.
Dean describes his son Nick as dichotomous, recounting how he would complain about his roommates being slobs while his own room is a mess.
Nick volunteered to crew for him.
Dean thought Nick would be irresponsible. Nick surprised Dean; he was much more responsible than Dean’s dad.
It’s a parent's burden to accept that their child is now a self-sufficient, capable adult.
[29:58] Did Dean’s Career and Fame Affect His Family?
Ultramarathoning has always been a family affair for Dean.
He would take his family to where his marathons are. Dean’s kids had the opportunity to travel to different places from a young age.
Fans that come up to him asking for autographs and selfies are decent people.
[34:44] Dealing with Pain and Failure
When you're in pain, it's difficult to interact with others. Dean admits that it can be tough when his fans come up to chat with him during this time.
He commits to setting aside his ego and always gives 100% in everything he does, including ultramarathoning and interacting with fans.
[40:44] The Value of Failing
Success builds character, but failure more profoundly so.
The emotional range that comes with failure makes one a better human.
Don’t shy away from hitting rock bottom because you’ll be missing out on a profound character-building opportunity.
In the end, it’s a matter of perspective. Most people will applaud the distance that you run, whether you come in first or not.
[44:49] Ultramarathoning is Achieving the Impossible
Dean initially thought there was trickery involved in ultramarathoning.
The moments that stuck to Dean in his career weren’t victories or crossing finish lines.
What stuck to him were the moments when he was on the verge of giving up but persisted through difficulty.
[48:04] The Importance of Character
Ultramarathoning teaches you to be resilient through the tough times.
Running doesn’t hurt when you’re doing it right.
Some people try to avoid difficult things and pain, while others embrace them. We've built our world around comfort, but somehow we're still miserable.
However, the more struggle you experience, the more strength you build.
[53:21] Dean’s Biggest Takeaways From Ultramarathoning
To Dean, it’s the little moments that are the most priceless.
Ultramarathoning is a journey, a passion, and a commitment.
Staying true to yourself is valuable, simple, and magical.
[56:11] Forming Connections Through Books
Writing is laborious, but the motivation it brings to people makes it worthwhile.
Dean dictates the things he wants to write on his phone while running.
Running clears Dean’s thoughts. To him, motion stirs emotion.
A singularity of purpose is achieved when focusing on a specific goal or mission.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘Some people are built to run far and slow, and other people are built to run quick and short.’
‘In school, you get the lesson and you take the test. In parenting, you take the test, and then you get the lesson.’
‘What can you do other than just do your best? You're human. All of us can only just do our best.’
‘When I stand on the starting line, I'm going to give it my all. I'm not going to leave anything on this course. I'm just going to be the best that Dean can be. I'm going to try my hardest and the only way I'm going to fail is if I don't try my hardest and don't give it my all.’
‘I think bold failures build character. I have to be honest. Success builds character, but so does failure and in a more profound way.’
‘We've built our world around comfort: having every comfort available and removing as much discomfort and pain as we can. And I think, in a way, we're so comfortable, we're miserable.’
‘I'm just a runner, but that's who I am and I'm staying true to that. I'm going to do that to the grave. And I think in that, there's a simplicity and I think there's some magic in that.’
About Dean
Dean Karnazesis a renowned ultramarathon runner.Among his many accomplishments, he has run 50 marathons in 50 days on 50 consecutive days, gone across the Sahara Desert in 120-degree temperatures, and ran 350 miles without sleep. He has also raced and competed in all seven continents twice.
Dean has carried the Olympic Torch twice. He appeared on the covers of Runner's World, Outside, and Wired, and has been featured in TIME, People, GQ, and Forbes. He was named one of the "Top 100 Most Influential People in the World". Men's Fitness has also labelled him as one of the fittest men in the world. To top it off, Dean is also a New York Times bestselling author and a much sought-after speaker and panellist in running and athletic events worldwide.
If you want to learn more about Dean, his incredible adventures and his achievements, you may visit hiswebsite.
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati: Good day, everyone. Welcome back to Pushing the Limits, your host Lisa Tamati here. Today, I have one of my longtime friends and a guy who has had a massive influence in my life both as a role model and as someone who has facilitated me with a lot of help with my books and so on. He's a worldwide legend. He is Dean Karnazes. He is the author of four books. And he has a new one out called the Runner's High, which I was excited to give me an excuse to chat to my buddy, and see what he's been up to, and to talk everything, ultramarathon running. We talk a whole lot about getting older in ultramarathon running, and the difficulties, and we talk about life in general and longevity, and the beauty of the sport. He's an incredible ambassador for our sport. He's done so much. He's brought so many people into the sport worldwide and he's an incredible human being.
He's actually stuck in lockdown in Australia right at the moment as we were recording this and was about to do a race ride around Australia with my other friend, Pat Farmer. Another incredible human being. These guys are just next level crazy, and bloody COVID has ripped everything so they're now down to doing thousand-mile race around a military base in Australia in New South Wales. But in true ultramarathon form, where there's a will, there's a way. And when there's an obstacle, you find a way around it. Improvise, adapt, and overcome as my friend Craig Harper always says. So that's what these guys have been doing. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Dean Karnazes. Without him, I wouldn't have my books. He is a very generous and caring person as well as being an incredible athlete.
Before we head over to the show, just want to remind you, we have our BOOSTCAMP live webinar series coming up starting on the first of September 2021. If you're listening to this later on, we will be doing these on an ongoing basis. And actually, we have planned to set up a mastermind that goes the year long. I don't know how long it's gonna take us to get organised but that is our goal. We're all about helping each other upgrade our lives and be the best versions of ourselves that we can be. This one's called BOOSTCAMP. This eight-week-long webinar series that Neil and I are doing. This is a live series where you hang out with us once a week for an hour and get a lot of great information: the latest science, the latest biohacking, the latest longevity, everything about mental toughness, resilience, everything that's going to basically upgrade your life and help you be a better human. The stuff that we've spent years and decades actually studying, learning, and doing. So I hope you get to enjoy this with us.
You can head on over to peakwellness.co.nzboostcamp. That's B-O-O-S-T camp. BOOSTCAMP, not boot camp. We won't be making you run around doing anything. We're just going to be having wonderful chats and education. A lot of lectures and a lot of fun to be had along the way. And, I think, what's most important is you'll be networking with like-minded individuals. They say that you are the sum total of the five people that you hang out with most. And make those five people, in this case, it will be a few more, some top-quality people who are all on a mission the same as you are. So if you want to come and join us, that's BOOSTCAMP.
We also have our epigenetics program. If you want to know all about your genetics, and how to upgrade your life through your genes, understanding what your genes do, if you're dealing with a difficult health journey, and you don't know where to go to next, this is a very good place to start. This is our flagship program that we've been running for years now. We've taken hundreds and hundreds of people through this program. And it's really an incredible all-encompassing program that looks at your food, your exercise types, what time of the day to do different things, your mood and behaviour, and lots, lots more. So come and check that out at lisatamati.com and hit the ‘Work with Us’ button then you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program there if you're interested in doing that. Right. Now, over to the show with Dean Karnazes who's sitting in lockdown in Australia.
Well. Hi, everyone and welcome to the show. Today, I have my very good friend and absolute legend of ultramarathoning, Dean Karnazes, with me. Dean, welcome to the show, again. Repeat offender.
Dean Karnazes: Oh, it's so nice to be back on with you. Thank you for having me. We always have such lively conversations. I love it.
Lisa: We do, right? I just absolutely enjoy your company. Whenever I've had the chance to spend a little bit of time with you, it's been absolute gold whether it's been on the podcast, or interviewing you, or hanging out with you on the Gold Coast like we did last year. That was absolutely awesome. Dean, you've just brought out another book. Another amazing book called Runner's High, and that's why we had to get you back on, because I want to share about all this book. But before we get into the book, you're sitting in lockdown in Australia. Tell me what is going on there.
Dean: It's a long story but it started with a run across Australia with Pat Farmer. So from Western Australia to the East Coast, and that was the original idea; it was 5,000 kilometres. And this was six months ago when the world was going in a better direction, and over the past six months, boy, the world has done just the opposite. And we, like you, are a fighter and we kept saying we're going to persevere the same... Well, the run across Australia got mixed to a run across New South Wales, a thousand-mile run across New South Wales.
And we kept thinking, 'This is going to happen. This is going to happen.' I boarded the plane, I flew to Australia with 10 people on the huge jet, yeah. And when I get to Australia, I realise how bad the situation is here. And every day, I turn on the news. It's getting worse, it's getting worse as I'm in quarantine, and then finally Pat called me a couple days ago and said, 'We can't do the thousand-mile run now. We could still the thousand-mile run. It's just going to be contained within a military base because we need to stay in our own bubble.’ And I thought 'Oh.'
Lisa: He has flown away from America to Australia to run around the military base. It sounds a bit like being tactic stuff.
Dean: Oh, yeah. And not only the... To sit in quarantine. To your point, I've been in our hotel room for 12 days now, waiting to get out, yeah.
Lisa: For someone like you... You're just like me. Obviously, you're even more extreme than me. It must be torture. I just can't comprehend being in a room. This must be awful for you.
Dean: Don’t remind me, but yeah. Basically, from the moment I get up, I'm staying active. We both know the importance of movement. So from the moment my head leaves the pillow, I'm not sitting down ever. Even right now, I'm pacing back and forth in this room, and I'm doing bodyweight exercises just constantly, at least throughout the day.
Lisa: I used to... If I was travelling and I was stuck in a hotel room somewhere in a dangerous city or whatever, I'd put on something running on TV and run along with them. I was doing the Boston Marathon in Budapest in a hotel room one day. Just run along the spot. Doesn't matter. You got to do something to keep active, so I can imagine it being a bit of a mission for you. So my heart goes out to you and hang in there for two more days.
And all my love, please, to Pat Farmer. I love the guy. He's just amazing. We got to hang out when we're in the Big Red Run together, which I failed spectacularly, by the way. I had a back injury that walked me out in the middle of that race. But one of the big advantages of that run was actually getting to meet Pat Farmer because he's an absolute legend of the sport. So you two together would be a really powerful combination. I'm really sad that he’s not going to go right around Australia because imagine the people that would have come out and enjoyed meeting you two.
Dean: Oh, he pulled all the strings. He's very well connected in political circles and the Australian Army is crazy for us. So we had 13 Army personnel and they're setting up a tent city every night, and they're cooking for us. It was amazing but COVID had other plans.
Lisa: Oh, bloody COVID. It’s wrecking every damn thing. Hey, but it's ultramarathon runner and Pat Farmer who has run from the North Pole to the South Pole, people. Absolute crazy guy. Obstacle? Find a way around it. Obstacle? Find a way around. And that's what you guys are doing, and you have to be flexible. That's a good lesson for this day and age because we're all having to be very, very flexible right now, and adapt to a hell of a lot of change, and being able to cope in different situations. So I bet you guys would just find a way through it and it will be another incredible story at the end of the day.
Dean: I think the world needs it. As controversial as the Olympics were, I think it was an amazing thing, and it's so scaled back, right? But still, people are stuck in their house and now, what are they doing? They're watching the Olympics. They're getting energised, and they're thinking about the future so yeah, thank you. It's been a very emotional journey for me to leave a place... Where I live in California, we're over 80% vaccinated. So to leave a place where there was no masks then come here, it's been eye-opening and challenging.
Lisa: You should have Pat go to you and run around California. You got it backwards. I have no doubt that you guys will just find a way through, and you’ll make it epic, anyway. Say you get given lemons, you make lemonade.
Dean: Yeah well, at least we're staying in military barracks, and we're basically running. Every day, we're staying in the same place so logistically, it'll be easier.
Lisa: Yeah. Oh my god, you guys just don't stop. I admire you guys so much, and I was saying to you last year, when we're in the Gold Coast, 'I've hit the wall at about 48 but to be honest, I had a pretty hit on, full-on war with my body and....' But you guys just seem to keep going, and going, and going. I had Mum as well so I did have an excuse, guys. But pretty highly, it was a stressful last five years. But you just seem to... Because how old are you now, Dean, if you don't mind sharing?
Dean: Yeah. Well, when anyone would ask my age, I would say, 'Are you talking about my chronological age or my biological age?’
Lisa: Well, your chronological because biological, you're probably 20 years younger. Because I definitely am. That's my take on it.
Dean: Chronologically I'm closer to 60 than 50.
Lisa: Exactly. Have you actually ever had your biological age done? Because that's an interesting thing.
Dean: Yeah, I had a couple. There's a lot of good ways you can test it, and I've had it done a couple different times. One, I was about I was in my late 30s. And then on another, I was older than my actual chronological age.
Lisa: Which one was that?
Dean: It was post ultramarathon. So after racing, we spoke about C-reactive protein earlier and inflammation. And that was one of the biomarkers that they used in calculating your biological age. So when I looked at the results, I said, 'Hold it. How did you arrive at that figure?' And they gave me all the markers they looked at, and I said, 'Well, look. This is wildly elevated because just four days ago, I just ran a hundred miles.'
Lisa: Exactly. And C-reactive protein, if you've just had a cold, if you've just hit like we were talking about my dad before and sepsis and his C-reactive protein was just through the roof. So that makes sense that they would be out. There's a whole clock, which is the methylation markers, which is a very good one. I've done just one very basic one that came out at 34. I was pretty pleased with that one. At the end of the day, I think if you can keep all your inflammatory markers like your homocysteine and C-reactive protein generally under control, keep your albumin levels high, they are pretty good markers. Albumin is one that is looking at, it’s a protein that your liver makes, and that's a very important one. And if you albumin starts to go too low, that's one sign that things aren't going to good. So keep an eye on all those.
I love studying all this longevity stuff because I plan to live to 150 at least, and I don't think that that's unrealistic now as long as I don't get run over by a bus or something. With the stuff that's coming online and the technology that's coming, we're going to be able to turn back the clock on some pretty advanced stuff already. Now, my mum's on more than me because obviously, her needs are a bit greater than mine. I can't afford for us to be on all the top stuff. But yeah, I'm very excited. We don't need to age like our grandparents have aged. We're gonna have... And someone like you, Dean, who's lived a good healthy life, apart from pushing the hell out of your body, and I'll talk about that in a sec, but I think you've got the potential to live to 150, especially because you're Greek. You come from stock.
Dean: And my mom is from one of the Blue Zones. An island called Ikaria and I've been there and I've met... Ikaria, the island she's from, has the highest concentration of centenarians anywhere on Earth.
Lisa: Oh my gosh. So you're going to live to 200 then.
Dean: Well, the beautiful thing about these people is that not only are they over 100, they still have a high quality of life. They're still mobile; they're self-sufficient. Mentally and cognitively, they're sharp as a tack. They're active. The one thing that they have that we don't have the luxury of is the complete absence of stress. They don't pay attention to time.
Lisa: That's, I think, a crucial point. Stress is a killer in so, so many ways.
Dean: Even the fact that we have mortgages, and we have payments, rent, all those sort of things, I think, contribute to obviously, to stress. And fitting in with new society. It's much more of a sense of community in these villages where everyone is part of it. They all take care of each other, so it's a different lifestyle.
Lisa: I think, definitely when you're actually living the old way of being out in the sunshine, from the time you get up to the end of the day, you're working outside and on the ground, in the land, hands in the dirt, all of that sort of stuff really... Because I studied lots about circadian rhythms and how our eyes, for example, you see sunshine early in the morning. That resets your circadian rhythms, sets the clock going for the day. Your adenosine starts to build up over the day. You get tired at about 14 to 16 hours later. All of these things that we've... as modern-day humans, we've taken ourselves out of the old way of living and put ourselves into this artificial comfortable environment. But this is upsetting all our ancient DNA, and that's why that's leading to problems.
And then, of course, we've got this crazy life with technology, and the stuff we have to do, and work. Just like stress, what it does to the gut, the actual microbiota in the gut, and how much it affects your gut health. And of course, gut health affects everything. Your brain and your gut talk all the time. All these stuff so I think if we can harness the cool stuff of the technology coming, plus go back and start respecting as much as possible our ancient DNA, and then eating our ancestors did as best we can with these depleted soils, and pesticides, and glyphosates, and God knows what's in the environment, but doing the best we can, then we've got a good chance of actually staying around on this planet and still be running ultramarathons or at least marathons when you're a hundred plus. I don't think that that's unrealistic anymore, and that excites me. So I'm always learning on that front.
Dean: But I want to be that guy that's running a marathon when you say a hundred. That's my ambition now.
Lisa: I'll keep you up on the latest stuff then. What you need to be aware of.
Dean: I don't have any... People say, ‘You must have arthritis, or back pain, or knee pain, or joint pain.’ I don't have any of those things. I don't know why but I just... I'm so happy. I get up every morning and feel fresh.
Lisa: That's absolutely amazing. I think one of the amazing things with you is that... Because I studied genetics, and I looked at my genes. And actually doing really long bouts of exercise with my combination of genetics and my cardiovascular system, especially I've got a very weak glycocalyx, which is the lining of your endothelial cells. Bear with me people. This means that if I do a lot of oxidative damage, which you do, of course, when you're running, that's pretty damaging to my lining of my blood vessel. So I've got to be a little more careful and take a lot of antioxidant support. But having that inflammation means I can now take steps to mitigate that so that I can still do what I love to do. And that's really key. It's hitting stuff off at the pass and there's so much we can do now and that's really, really exciting. But I've gone completely off topic because we should be talking about your book.
Dean: No, I think it's very relevant because I think that some people are built to run far and slow and other people are built to run quick and short.
Lisa: Yeah. I do and I agree and it's not just about your fast-twitch fibres. It is also about your methylation and your detox pathways, your hormonal pathways, your cardiovascular genes. All of these things do play a role, and that's why there's no one size fits all. And that's why we don't all have to be Dean Karnazes or Pat Farmer. You know what I mean? Not everybody is built for that or should be doing that, and that's okay as well. And working out what is optimal for your health is the key thing. Having role models like you guys is just mind-blowing because it does lift your perception of what the human body is capable of. That leads the way for others, and to follow, and to test out their personal limits. I think that's important too.
Dean: Well, I've run over 300 traditional marathons. And you go to the Boston Marathon, you go to these big marquee marathons, the New York City Marathon, and you see people in their 70s and 80s that, compared to their peers, are off the charts. You say, 'Well, that running is gonna be bad for you.' I don't subscribe to that.
Lisa: I've done what, 70-odd thousand K's. Not as much as you have. And I don't have any knee pain. I don't have any back pain because I keep my core strong and that's despite having accidents with my back and having no discs. Because I keep myself fit and healthy. I have had some issues with hormones and kidney function because when we... You would have been rhabdomyolysis, no doubt a few times.
Dean: Minor, minor, but I have. Yeah. Every ultra runner has, yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, so things that. You've got to just keep an eye on and make sure you don't... You look after your kidneys otherwise and do things to mitigate the damage. Because yeah there are certain things that damage. But life damages you. Like living, breathing is damaging. It's causing oxidative stress. So you've got to weigh up the pros and cons, but having an active physical life outdoors, and having adventures, and being curious and excited, and being involved in the world, that's got to be beneficial for you. So when do you actually start with this big adventure with Pat?
Dean: It's on the 14th of August, so in about a week. Yep. They finish on the 24th, yeah.
Lisa: Oh, I'd like to get you both back on at the end of it to give me a rundown, have a go. That will be cool. Dean, let's just pivot now and let's talk a little bit about your book. Because you brought out some incredible books over the years. You're world-famous. You're a New York Times bestselling author. You've been named by the Times magazine as one of the most hundred influential people of the world. That's just insane. And now, you're brought out Runner's High. What's different about this story?
Dean: Well, my first book was Ultramarathon Man, and that was kind of a coming-of-age book. It was about me learning about this crazy universe of ultramarathon and people doing things that I thought was impossible. And Runner's High is five books later and three decades later. How am I still doing it? And how have I changed? How has the sport of ultramarathoning changed? How has the world changed? And that was the book. And it was also a very personal book and that... You're an ultramarathoner, and you know ultramarathon is an island.
If you start running these long distances it impacts everyone in your life including your family. Very much for your family. The book, it is not really about running. It's funny. People read it and they say, 'Wow. It's amazing but it's storytelling.' And you and I are both good storytellers, and that was what I just set out to write a book that was true and honest, and it was enjoyable for the reader. And yeah, it's doing really well in New Zealand, actually.
Lisa: It must be doing well around the world. And this one is very... It's really real, and genuine, and raw. No holds barred. No barred... What do you call it? No... How do you say that? It's very much a real and it's a love letter to, basically, like you say, to running. And you're actually revisiting the Western States, a race that you've done how many times? 13 times or something? But coming back in your 50s, late 50s to do this again in 2018. It was a bit of a tough road, shall we say. Can you tell us a little bit about that part of the journey and why Western States are so special to you?
Dean: Yeah. The Western States 100 mile endurance run is in the Sierra Nevada, California. And it was the first 100-mile trail race, and I first did it back in 1994. So your first is always your best. It's kind of this amazing experience that you have, and you just never forget it. I can recall literally conversations I had in that race in 1994. I can recall what people were wearing. I can recall where I saw my parent. I recall it. It gets impressed upon your mind. So my synapses just absorbed it. So going back here after 13 goes at it and thinking, 'Wow, is this going to be a stale experience? Or what is it going to be like?'
And it ended up being quite magical and quite transformative in my career as well as... I learned a lot about my father and my son, and I wrote a lot about that in the book, and watching them crew for me, and how things have changed over time. It wasn't a good race. I don't want to be a spoiler but I think good races don't make good stories. Good races, you pop the champagne, yeah, it's boring. You high five at the finish, you have some champagne, and all this good. When things go to shit, that's an interesting story.
Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. I've got three books full of things turning to shit. And I think it's beautiful that you talk about your dad or what a crazy guy he is, and your son coming and how your son was actually... Like you didn't know whether he was up to crewing for you really because he's a young man. He wasn't going to take this seriously because you need your crew to be on form. How do he actually do when he was out there?
Dean: Yeah. There's a saying that in school, you get the lesson and you take the test. In parenting, you take the test and then you get the lesson. You're just like, 'Boy I screwed that one up.' You lose track of your kids, especially when they go off to uni.
Lisa: Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing the Limits, if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years and we need your help to keep it on air. It's been a public service free for everybody and we want to keep it that way. But to do that we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a patron for Pushing the Limits podcast, then check out everything on patron.lisatamati.com. That's patron.lisatamati.com.
We have two patron levels to choose from. You can do it for as little as 7 dollars a month, New Zealand, or 15 dollars a month if you really want to support us. We are grateful if you do. There are so many membership benefits you're going to get if you join us: everything from workbooks for all the podcasts, the strength guide for runners, the power to vote on future episodes, webinars that we're going to be holding, all of my documentaries, and much, much more. So check out all the details: patron.lisatamati.com. And thanks very much for joining us.
Dean: As a parent, your kids grew up quicker than you adjust to them growing up, and I always treat them as a guy that needs his diaper change kind of thing even though he's 20 years old now. Nick was just such a dichotomous individual because he complained to me when he came home from uni that his roommates were such slobs. I said, 'How do you like living with three other guys?' He's like, 'It’s great. They're my best friends, but they're such slobs.' Every every time I walked past his room, I'd look in his room, and it was a Tasmanian devil had gone through it. ‘Your room is such a mess.’ When he volunteered the crew for me at Western States, claiming he knew how to do it, even though the last time he'd done it, he was nine years old, and he didn't do anything.
At this time, he was actually driving a vehicle. He was the most important support I had during this kind of foot race. And I just thought that it was gonna be a horrible experience. That he'd be irresponsible, he wouldn't show up, and this, and that. At least it was just the opposite. He was the most responsible, so much more responsible than my dad. So much more capable. My dad's been doing this for 30 years, and my son who's never done it was so much better than my dad. He showed me a new side of him that I'd never seen.
Lisa: That's him growing up, I suppose?
Dean: Yeah. I think every parent that's got a kid is kind of nodding their head as they're hearing this because they can relate.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think kids, sometimes when they can be a kid, they'll be a kid. They'll be the irresponsible... But when you actually put them on the spot and expect something from them, sometimes, they come to the party if you're lucky, and actually step up to the line, and actually do a good job, and obviously, Nicholas did that.
Dean: Yeah. I think it's more the burden of the parent to accept and to realise that this little baby is self-sufficient and capable. Let go of the fact that they once were so dependent on you. They're not anymore. They have their own life, and they can navigate their way through the world.
Lisa: It must be pretty hard to let go. What do you think it's been like for them having such a famous, crazy, extreme athlete dad? Was it hard for both of them? Because I can imagine you were away a lot. You're doing dangerous, crazy, amazing things. Everybody knows you. You're extremely well known when you go anywhere. How did that affect the family in general?
Dean: It's funny. My kids have never known me as anything different. They've always known me as this ultramarathoner, and it's always been a family affair for me. My kids, they've been to Australia, they've been to Europe multiple times, South America, all over North America. I have taken them with me. I once ran 50 marathons in all of the 50 US states in 50 days, and they were along. Yeah. How many kids... My son was nine, my daughter was 11. How many kids ever, how many people ever get to see all of the states of America, let alone when you're that age? So I think that they just accept me for what I am.
Sometimes I get the fan thing where people come up to me like at a restaurant. Like, 'Oh, can you sign this or that?’ And it's always good people. The people that come up to me in an airport and say, 'Hey, I really admire you. Can we do a selfie?' They're decent people. Like I want to go have a glass of wine with this guy or this lady. It's not like I'm a rock star or movie star where I have all the crazy people chasing around. The people who chase me around are my peers. People I really admire myself.
Lisa: Or other runners. You know what? Something I've always admired about you, too, was that you always gave every single person time of day despite... And when we did that speaking gig together last year on the Gold Coast, I was really nervous, to be honest, because I was like, 'I'm on the stage with someone who is a superstar, and I'm little me.' Right? I'm sort of like, 'How the hell am I on stage with you? Because no one's gonna be interested in what the hell I've got to say when you're standing next to...' It's like some superstar, and you're standing on the stage with them, and you've got to do... It was quite difficult in a way because everybody wanted to... The line for your books was just two hours long. The line from mine was two people long.
Dean: You carried yourself beautifully. I thought together, we were a great pair. We complemented each other.
Lisa: You are a gentleman. You would always straight to me and make sure that I was included, which was fantastic. I saw you. Like you take the time for every single person. You are present with everybody, and that's a really hard thing to do. It's not so hard in a book signing, but it's bloody hard in the middle of a hundred-miler or a hundred K-er or when you were half-dead, dragging yourself into a checkpoint, and somebody wants a signature from you or a selfie, and you're trying to just get your stuff together. I found that difficult on my level of stuff. Because when I enter in New Zealand, I found that really difficult.
I'd have people coming out on the road with me all the way through. And in that preparation, I thought that would be cool. In the reality of the day-to-day grind, did you know when you're... Because I was running up to 70K's a day. I was in a world of pain and hurt most of the time, and just struggling to keep going, and very, very breakable, you feel like. And then, you'd have people coming out and now it's been maybe 2, 3, 4 or 5K's with you, and they're full of beans, and they want you to be full of beans and full of energy, and give them the greatest advice in their 5K's when you're half dead. I found that really, really hard because I'm actually, believe it or not, quite introverted and when I'm running, I go in.
How do you deal with it? How do you deal with that without being... Because you don't want to be rude. You don't want to be disrespectful to anybody, God forbid. But there were times on that run when I just literally had to say to my crew, 'I can't cope right now. I'm in a world of pain. I need some space.' And they have to sort of politely say, 'Sorry, she's not in a good space.' How do you deal with that?
Dean: Well, it's amazing that we're having this conversation because there are not a lot of people that can relate intimately to what you just said. Because most people will never be in that position but what.. I experienced exactly you've experienced. When running 50 marathons in 50 days or running, I ran across America as well. When you're in a world of hurt, you've got this protective shell on, and you don't want to be social, and then I'd have groups of college kids show up with my book. Like 'Oh my god. Karnazes, you're such a great influence, and we love your book.' And 'Let's order a pizza.' I just feel like I just want to crawl into a mummy bag and hide and you just got to turn it on.
Lisa: You've got to step up fine.
Dean: Yeah, they're so happy to see you, and they want to see you on. They don't want to see you like this groveler just dying. They want to see you strong and engaging, and it's really tough sometimes. Yeah. It's definitely really tough sometimes.
Lisa: Yeah, and that's why I admire that you managed to do that most of the time. You turn it on no matter in what shape you were. If I were to pull it out whereas, to be honest, a couple of times, I just couldn't. I'm just like, 'I'm done guys.' Remember on the run through New Zealand that one time? This was not with fans. I was running for CanTeen, the kids with cancer. I was in an immeasurable world of hurt one night after running for, God knows how long I've been out there, 1200 K’s or something at the stage. I had a 13-year-old boy was sent into my room to give me a pep talk. He was dying of cancer or had cancer, and he was here to give me a pep talk because I was crying. I wasn't able to get up and run the next day. And he came in and told me how much it meant to him, and to his peers, and what it meant to him that I was undertaking this journey.
That was a real lesson. Like, 'Oh, get over yourself. You're not dying, okay? You're not a 13 year old with cancer. You just have to run another 70 K's tomorrow. So what?' That's a good perspective. I did get up the next morning and go again and that was like, 'Here, come on.' Some funny but really touching moments. You are human and it's very easy when you go to a speaking engagement or whatever to be what you meant to be, a professional. But it's bloody hard when the chips are down and you're in the middle of a race to do that. So I really always did admire that about you. What I also admired was that it didn't matter whether you came first or last in a race. With the Western States, it was a struggle.
You never shied away from the fact that today might not have been your day, and you're having a bad day, and you weren't embarrassed about that. I've had races with Pat Farmers, a classic one in the middle of the Big Red Run where I was just falling to pieces. I was going through some personal trauma at the time, and my back went out. Yeah, I was just at a bad place. And I was embarrassed because I failed at a race at that stage. I was in that mindset. Now, I look back and go 'Give yourself a break.' How do you cope with that? How do you... Like when you don't do what the fans expect you to do on that day?
Dean: To me, it's your ego. Yeah, it is such an ego thing. And let's be honest, when you're a public figure, your failures are public. You don't fail in silence. You just kind of DNF and walk away and live the race another day. You DNF and people are taking pictures of you, and it's on the internet. I always got crowded. But in the end, I just... What can you do other than just do your best? You're human. All of us can only just do our best. So my commitment now is like, ‘When I stand on the starting line, I'm going to give it my all. I'm not going to leave anything on this course. I'm just going to be the best that Dean can be. I'm going to try my hardest and the only way I'm going to fail is if I don't try my hardest and don't give it my all.’ And when you go with that mindset, no matter what happens, you're doing yourself a service.
Lisa: Yeah, and you're a winner. This is such a powerful message, I think, for young people listening because often, we don't even try because we don't want to risk embarrassing ourselves, and risk failure, and risk looking like an idiot. And what you're saying is just forget your ego, set that to the side, and go, 'I'm going to give it all today, and if it isn't enough, it isn't enough and that's fine. I'll learn something out of it. And it's a journey that I'm on. And I'm going to be the best I can be today.' That's such a powerful story of perspective, and resilience, and leaving the ego at the door. I did struggle with that when I was younger because I had some pretty spectacular failures, and they really hurt. They really hurt where you take a long time to sort of go, 'Do I want to do that again in the public eye?' So to speak. And you've just always just been 'If it was a good day, it was a good day, and on to the next one if it was a bad day.'
Dean: Yeah, I think bold failures build character. I have to be honest. Success builds character, but so does failure and in a more profound way. I lean into every emotion that I have. Either success or failure, sorrow or regret. All those things that happen when you have a bad race or a bad day. I want that full emotional range. It just makes you a better human, I think. Not to shy away from those deep lows where you're just crushed. I think that people that try to avoid that are really missing out. Yeah, yeah, it's painful and it hurts but it builds your character in a profound way.
Lisa: Wow. That is so deep, actually. Because we're often taught push down your emotions, and keep them in a box, and be a professional, and keep going, and keep calm and carry on type thing. And it has its place as far as when you're in the middle of a race, you’ve got to keep your shit together, and compartmentalise stuff, and be able to function. But I think it's also very important to experience the pain, the grief, the pain, or whatever you're going through, and the happiness. It's another thing. I would get to the end of a race and it didn't matter how well I'd done, and what I've just achieved, and how difficult it was.
I remember doing one in the Himalayas and a friend coming up to me afterwards and it was 220K race, extreme altitude, hell of a journey to get there, all sorts of obstacles. I get to the finish line and he's just like, 'Wow, you're amazing. It's incredible. I can't believe what you just did. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it.' And I just went, 'Oh no. Someone else was faster, and there's a longer race.' You know what I mean? And I didn't integrate it. And he just went, 'Oh, for crying out loud. Can't you just take this one to the bank and actually bank it as being a success and a huge win?' And I really took that to heart.
And now, I pat myself on the back when I do even a little thing good because it reinforces that neural pathway in my brain that tells me, 'This was great because I just got a little reward' rather than, 'You're never good enough.' Because that was what I was telling myself before. No matter what I did, it wasn't enough. And now, flip that script around to go, 'Hey, you managed to do your shoelaces and get to the end of the road today. Well, done.’ And it's the thought of it.
Dean: It is, completely. My son said something to me that was along that same vein during the Western States. I said, ‘Nicholas…’ This is maybe a mile 60 or 70 of a hundred-mile run. I said, 'My race is crap. I'm not having a good race.' And he looked at me, said, 'Dad, you're running a hundred miles. To most people, that's enough.' And I put it in perspective. That although I'm with all these super elite athletes, you're not doing that... To most people that hear about anyone running a hundred miles, they don't care if you came in first or last. A hundred miles? They don't care if my time was 15 hours or 50 hours. They're just so inspired. Yeah, blown away by it. Yeah.
Lisa: Exactly, And I think that puts it because when we hang out... Because you are the sum total of the people that you hang out with, the top five, as the saying goes. And that can have negative connotations as well as positive. It can be the fact that you think if you're hanging out with the five top guys in the world, then you are going to be not looking too good. But if you're hanging out with just the average person, and you're doing something this long and this incredible, for most people, that's just like, 'Huh? Humans can do that?' I did a speaking engagement yesterday in Auckland and the people were like, 'But that's humanly impossible.' I go, 'It actually isn't, and there's actually thousands of us that do the stuff.' And then, they're like, 'What? I don't get it.'
Dean: That was it. That was the same reaction I had when I heard about someone running a hundred mile like that. They're, 'Oh, there's trickery.' I thought there's trickery. I thought there's hotels, or just campgrounds, or something. The guy said, 'The gun goes off and you just run, and you stop when you cross the finish line.' I couldn't wrap my head around it.
Lisa: Until you did it.
Dean: Until you did it. Exactly, yeah.
Lisa: And you built yourself up to it, and this is the thing. It's a combination of so much and it's that journey isn't it? So I think what we're talking about is it being this incredible life journey that you go on within an ultramarathon and within the training of our ultramarathon. It's like living an entire life in short. You're going through the highs, and the lows, and everything in between. And it's long, and it's hard, and it's awesome, and it's amazing, and you meet incredible people. It's everything that you go through in life but just on an intensive timescale, I feel like. And it's just a beautiful experience to go through, especially with the value of hindsight. Sometimes, in the middle of it, mile 70 of a hundred-mile race, it's not looking too flash.
Dean: Well, but I mean, to that point, when we reflect back on moments that we remember, at least me, it's not the victories. It's not the crossing the finish line first to me. It's always that time where I thought, 'I'm done. This is it. I can't get out of this chair. I'm trashed.' And somehow getting through that really, really tough moment and carrying on. That's what sticks with you. It's pretty weird, at least with me. Those are the moments that reflect back on my career. It's those horrible moments that I somehow persisted.
Lisa: When you look back, you're proud of yourself and you know that when... One of the biggest values, and I've seen this with my story with Mum and, unfortunately, recently with my dad, is that when the shit hits the fan, like it did in those two situations, I knew that I could step up to do everything within my power and that I was a fighter. I knew that I was a fighter, and then I knew that I would fight to the bitter end, whatever the outcome was. And that's a really good thing to know about yourself. Because you need to know that when things are down, what character do you have? Who are you when all the niceties of our world have gone? What are you capable of? And you learn to be able to function when everyone else is gone.
And that's a really powerful lesson that ultramarathoning teaches you, I think, in decades of the sort of hard work. And that's why athletes, I think... When you're employing athletes or you going into business with other athletes, you're more likely to have someone who's willing to fight through the tough times than if you just get someone who hasn't ever experienced any sort of discomfort in their life. Then they're not liable to be able to push through and be as resilient. I think that's what I'm trying to say.
Dean: I agree with you completely. And I often wonder if people have those character, those values, and that's what draws them to ultra running or if ultrarunning instils those values. I remember coming home from a run one time, and my neighbour was fetching up the morning paper. He saw me running back to my house and I'd, I don't know, I'd run 30 or 40 kilometres, and he said to me, 'Doesn't running hurt?' And I said to him, 'It doesn't if you're doing it right.' And he looked at me, 'I do everything to avoid difficult things.’ And I’m like, ‘And I embrace it.' It's just a different mindset.
Lisa: And if you have the mindset of wanting to always avoid all sorts of pain in life, then you're not going to experience very much. And when you're in a tough situation, you won't be able to cope because you won't have experienced any sort of pain. So the more that you had to struggle, the more strength you develop from that. The old proverb: 'Strength comes from struggle' is valid in all walks of life. So unfortunately, this is the way the world is set up. If you seek comfort all the time, you're actually going to be in deeper shit somewhere along the way and not able to help yourself because you haven't learned to fight, and you haven't learned to push through and to deal with a certain level of discomfort and a certain level of pain. And I think that's a really, really valuable thing to do.
Every day, I try to experience some sort of discomfort or pain: whether it's cold, whether it's pushing myself mentally, intellectually, whether it's pushing myself physically, doing some intense extreme exercise, or whatever the case may be. Every day, I try to do something that it scares the shit out of me or pushes me in some way because then, I know that I haven't gone backwards that day. I've probably learned something, and gone forward, and I've strengthened my body and my mind in some sort of way, shape, or form.
Dean: Yeah, but I think you're an exception. I think most people just try to take the path of least resistance and avoid difficult things and avoid pain. I think we've built our world around comfort: having every comfort available and removing as much discomfort and pain as we can. And I think, in a way, we're so comfortable, we're miserable.
Lisa: Exactly. That's exactly the problem. Because by actually experiencing a little bit of pain, by doing your push-ups, going for your run, doing your pull-ups, whatever the case is, being outside and digging the garden and doing stuff that is a bit unpleasant, it actually makes your body stronger, and it makes you mentally stronger. If we all sit on the couch and watch Netflix all day every day and eat chips, what's going to happen to us? We're going to destroy our health. We're going to just be so... And this is... I think I'm scared for the younger generation, that they haven't actually... We grew up. We're roughly the same age. You're a couple years older. I grew up in the 70's where we were outside, doing something all day, every day. We came in at night time for a feed and went to bed. That was our childhood, and that was just a beautiful way to grow up. We were cold. We were hungry. We were tired. We were happy.
Dean: We were playing, right? We were exercising. I remember riding my bike just everywhere. I never thought of it as exercise. It was playing. Kids don't play that way anymore, unfortunately.
Lisa: It's a scary thing for them because we need to teach them. Because again, it goes back to sort of respecting our ancient DNA and that's what I think... That's another thing that ultramarathoning does, or even trekking, or adventuring in any sort of way, shape, or form. It's that we've come from stock that used to have to build their own houses, cut down their own trees, chase animals, whatever the case was, just to survive. And then, we now have it all laid on for us. We're in lovely houses. We've got light all day or night. We've got food every street corner. And our ancient DNA isn't just set up for that. This is where all the problems come. We could go on a complete rant, which I often do on this podcast.
But coming back to your story in your Runner's High, what do you think now looking back at this incredibly long and prolific career and this incredible journey that you've been on so far, and I do think that you still got miles and miles to go. What are some of the biggest lessons that you've learned along the way on the thirty-odd year journey that you've been? What are the biggest takeaways from ultramarathon running?
Dean: I think that it's the little moments that are the most priceless. It's not the moments where... I write about meeting with First Lady Michelle Obama. Yeah, that was great. It was amazing, and incredible, and everything else, but it's the little moments of having a moment with a crew member or your family that you just you reflect on and laugh about. So it's those things to me that are most priceless. The other thing with ultramarathoning that I've certainly learned is that it's a journey. To me, it's a passion and it's something I've committed my life to. And staying true to the person you are, there's value in that. Even though it's just running, Lisa. It's nothing hugely intellectual. I'm not winning Nobel prizes. I'm just a runner, but that's who I am and I'm staying true to that. I'm going to do that to the grave. And I think in that, there's a simplicity and I think there's some magic in that.
Lisa: Oh, absolutely. You know what you're born to do. You say it's only running but actually, you're a teacher; you're an author; you're a person who empowers others. You're doing all of that in the framework of running. So you do a heck of a lot more than just running for me. You’ve influenced an entire generation worldwide. I hope you know. Without you, ultramarathon running would not be where it is today. So I think you know a little bit more than just running yourself. This is the power of books, and this is the power of storytelling. And it's the power of having such a unique character that is so charismatic and draws people in. And those are all the things that you've managed to take.
You could have just been a silent runner who just did his thing and went away again, but you've chosen to share your journey with the world. And that's just gold because that just gives people an insight into what they can do. It's all about... when I read your books, I'm getting something for me. And everybody who's reading those books, that's actually, 'Yes, we talk. We're hearing Dean's story.' But we're actually going, 'Huh. Maybe I could do that. Maybe I could try that. Oh, yeah I've experienced that.' This is the conversation that are going on in people's heads when they read those stories, and that's why they have such an intimate connection with you. And why, even though it's weird when people come up and ask you for an autograph or any of that, they feel like they know you, and they do know you.
Dean: I've got a message from a guy. Yeah, I know. Every time I think, 'Wow, this is really laborious, writing these books. And maybe it's my last book.' I got a message from a guy a couple days ago and he said, 'I was planning on reading a couple chapters of your new book before I went to bed.' And he said five hours later, 'I finished the last page.' And then, he said, 'And then I got up. I just had to go running.' Wow. Then the book worked if it motivated him to read the whole thing in one sitting and get up and go running, then it's worthwhile.
Lisa: Absolutely. And you know when you read, I read books ferociously, and the list is long. I'm usually reading about 10 books at a time. And when I'm reading, I am distilling the world's top people and their entire experience, I get to absorb within the space of 10, 15 hours of reading their book. That's a good return on investment. If I want to download someone's experience, or knowledge, or whatever the case is, then reading books is just such a powerful way to do it and listening to podcasts as well. Because that's another way that you can do it without having to... You can be out and about, driving, or running, or whatever and absorbing some new information. And I think we're just so lucky to have access to all of this. It's just incredible.
Dean: It is and it's a pity if you don't take advantage of that because you're so wise and educated. That conversation we had before the podcast, it's amazing how... It's amazing. Your knowledge base and how you developed your knowledge base. Well, you've absorbed the best of the best and what they're thinking and the research they've done.
Lisa: Exactly. All you're doing is you're absorbing it from the best scientists, the best doctors, the best athletes, the best executives, the best business people, and then, you get to share it, teach it. This is the other thing. If I learn something in the morning, I'm teaching it in the afternoon. Usually it's to my poor husband or my mother. I'm teaching it and then, I often build into my programs, or it comes out in my webinars, or whatever. And you’re basically just regurgitating stuff that you've learned, but it's powerful when you put it into the perspective of your experience and you change it. You learn it, you teach it. You learn it, you teach it.
And that's a such a cool way to share, and get that information out there into the world, and actually help the world on your little corner of the earth and what you're doing. And that's what I love to do and that's the power of what your books are all about. So yeah, I commiserate with you. Getting a book out is a bloody long, hard journey. People don't realise how hard it is to write a book. Give me a bloody hundred miler any day over writing a book. In fact, give me ten hundred milers over any day because it's such a long process, isn't it?
Dean: Well, I do a lot of my writing while I'm running actually. So I dictate into my phone now. Because we have some of our clearest thoughts while we're running. Before, I used to think, 'God, why didn't I write that down? How did that go again?' Now, I just dictate as I'm running and then come home, put in an earbud, and just type up my notes.
Lisa: I haven't done variations of that. I do end up stopping on my runs and just writing a quick note. I haven't actually dictated. I have to start adapting that because maybe that'll make it easy because you're damn right. When I'm actually at the computer, there's distractions. There's a hundred windows open; there's notifications coming all the time, and I really find it hard to sit down and write. It is sometimes best if you could just dictate into something, so I'll have to give that a crack next time.
Dean: I think motion stirs emotion.
Lisa: Yeah, it does and it clears the mind. That's one thing I miss now that I'm not doing the ultras, personally, at the moment. It's that singularity of purpose. That cleanness the mind had before of this one goal. And I'm watching my husband's preparing for a hundred miler in November. And just watching everything in his whole day, and he has the luxury of doing this because we haven't got kids and stuff, but everything in his whole day is centred around his training and getting to that hundred miler in the best shape that he can. And that singularity of purpose, if you like, almost that selfishness but having that one thing that you're doing, oh, I miss that. I miss that.
Dean: It's funny because I have friends that are mountain climbers, and we compare notes in that regard, and they say the same thing. They said life is frenetic, and we're moving in all these different directions. It's crazy basically. But when we're preparing for a summit quest, we have a mission. There's this we get to the summit like everything we're doing is focused on reaching the summit and there's clarity in that. You're right, that singularity of purpose. That's a good way to put it.
Lisa: Yeah, and this clarity that I really, really find, I think, a lot of us are struggling with because I don't have the luxury of that sort of clarity at the moment and that singular thing because I'm building businesses, and looking after Mum, and doing a hundred bloody things that I do. And my brain never gets that quiet singular thing. It does want to go for a run, but it's a short run now. And so that's not long enough to actually get that feeling and I'm not on an athletic mission. Okay, it's a time in my life, and it's where I'm at, and that's fine. But Jesus, hard sometimes. Just not to be able to have that freedom of living just for yourself and being actually dedicated to one thing. And I find that very, very hard sometimes, especially with all the thousand things that are coming at you when you run businesses.
Dean: That's why I run, they say.
Lisa: I haven't worked that one out. I haven't organised myself for a while. What I have done. Oh, Dean, you've been absolutely wonderful today. I don't want to take up any more of your time in lockdown because goodness knows, you've got lots to do there, probably.
Dean: It's an exciting day because I think it's my fifth COVID test since showing up. So every couple of days, they show up. They knock on your door and stick a swab up your nose. I've been fully vaccinated. You've just been here five times. I don't think I'm going to get it. I've been in the hotel room by myself for two weeks.
Lisa: Yeah. Come on.
Dean: Where's it going to come from?
Lisa: Yeah, it must be very frustrating. But hey, two more days and you're in freedom and then you're going to be able to run, and run, and run.
Dean: I'd get to run a thousand miles, yeah.
Lisa: With a very cool mate so give my greetings to Pat Farmer. He's a legend, and I've got to get him back on. Actually, you guys should come on together at the end of your run. That'd be just fabulous. Mum is sitting over in the chair, waiting for me to take her to the gym so I better get my bum into gear. Dean, thank you so much for your time. I love you to bits. I think you're amazing. I think your books are awesome and what you've done for the world of ultramarathoning and beyond is just incredible. Thank you for your time today.
Dean: Well, the feeling is completely mutual, Lisa. Thank you, and I look forward to the time where we can share some footsteps together again.
Lisa: Oh, that would be absolutely gold.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional
19 Dec 2024
Brain Injury Breakthroughs: Dr. Mark Allen on Healing Post-Concussion Syndrome
01:03:05
In this eye-opening episode, we dive deep into the world of post-concussion syndrome (PCS) and brain health with Dr. Mark Allen of Cognitive FX, a leading expert in brain repair. PCS affects millions worldwide, yet many are left frustrated with lingering symptoms like brain fog, fatigue, and headaches. Dr. Allen shares his groundbreaking approach that combines the latest in neuroscience with a holistic, multidisciplinary method to treat and heal the brain.
Key topics include:
Why Functional MRI (fMRI) is a Game Changer: How it identifies hidden brain dysfunction and tailors treatments to individual needs.
Integrated Healing Strategies: From vestibular rehabilitation and neuromuscular therapy to high-intensity interval training (HIIT) programs designed for the brain.
Cognitive and Sensory Therapy: Rewiring the brain through targeted cognitive tasks and sensory integration work.
The Role of Neurointegration and Occupational Therapy: Enhancing brain-body connections for long-term recovery.
Timely Treatment vs. Old Injuries: Why starting treatment early yields the best results, but even years-old injuries can still benefit significantly from intervention.
Dr. Allen explains how this multifaceted approach not only addresses symptoms but helps restore overall brain function, enabling patients to return to their lives with clarity, focus, and vitality.
Whether you're dealing with a recent injury or have struggled with PCS for years, this episode is a must-watch for anyone seeking answers and actionable solutions.
🤝 Connect with Dr. Mark Allen: Learn more about Dr. Mark Allen's expertise in cognitive rehabilitation and neuroplasticity by visiting his website. Explore his latest insights and groundbreaking approaches to improving brain health and function.
Mark D. Allen earned a PhD in Cognitive Science at Johns Hopkins University with post-doctoral training in Cognitive Neuroscience and Functional Neuroimaging at the University of Washington. As a cofounder, Dr. Allen developed the scientific foundation and technological innovations that make treatment at Cognitive Fx unique and exceptional. Dr. Allen is a pioneer in the development of fMRI for use in clinical settings.
Significant scientific contributions include the development of neuroimaging biomarkers for post-concussion diagnosis and treatment and theoretical work in the pathophysiology of chronic post-concussion symptoms. Specifically, his research led to the discovery of the key role of neurovascular coupling dysfunction in post-concussion syndrome. Significant clinical contributions include fMRI patient assessment based on individual neuroanatomy analysis—he has performed over 10,000 such assessments to date.
Additional clinical contributions include the development of a unique high intensity interval training protocol of cardiovascular exercise that targets restoration of neuronal function and cerebrovascular responsivity. Most recently, Dr, Allen has co-engineered a machine learning-based program for functional neuroanatomical discovery, and highly advanced fMRI analysis techniques which provide a more reliable and standardized method of fMRI analysis on concussion patients.
🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
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The Secret To Building Muscle Longevity With Dr. Chris Meletis
00:59:16
In this episode, we dive deep into the science of muscle health with Dr. Chris Meletis, exploring why maintaining muscle mass is critical as we age and how MYOS MD's revolutionary supplement, Fortetropin, can play a pivotal role in combating muscle loss.
Key Topics Covered:
The Importance of Muscle for Longevity:
Muscles act as the currency of longevity, influencing metabolism, physical functionality, myokine production, hormone balance, and overall musculoskeletal health.
After age 40, muscle loss (sarcopenia) accelerates, with lean body mass decreasing by 1-2% annually and strength declining 1.5-5% per year. This impacts mobility, independence, and systemic health.
Understanding Myostatin and Its Role:
Myostatin is a natural protein that inhibits muscle growth, preventing excess muscle accumulation.
While beneficial in early development, elevated myostatin levels with age, injury, or illness can exacerbate muscle wasting and hinder recovery.
How MYOS MD's Fortetropin Helps:
Fortetropin, derived from fertilized chicken egg yolk, is clinically proven to lower myostatin levels and support muscle protein synthesis.
Benefits include:
Increased muscle mass and strength.
Reduced muscle breakdown.
Enhanced recovery after injury or surgery.
Clinical trials show an 18% increase in protein synthesis in older adults after just 21 days of supplementation without changes to diet or exercise.
Applications of Fortetropin:
Protecting lean body mass during weight loss, especially with GLP-1 treatments or bariatric surgery.
Supporting recovery from injuries or surgeries where muscle atrophy is a concern.
Enhancing physical performance for athletes and active individuals.
Practical Insights and Dosing:
Typical starting dose: 6.6 grams per day.
Easy to incorporate into daily routines—mix with shakes, yogurt, or water.
Pair with amino acids, CoQ10, and a protein-rich diet for optimal results.
The Bigger Picture:
Dr. Meletis explains how muscle health impacts metabolic function, bone density, and overall aging.
Strategies to combat sarcopenia include resistance training, balanced nutrition, and innovative interventions like Fortetropin.
Clinical studies referenced during the podcast are available on the MYOS MD website.
This conversation is packed with actionable insights for anyone looking to age healthfully, maintain their independence, and optimize their body's functionality. Don't miss it!
BIO
Dr. Chris D. Meletis, ND Dr. Chris Meletis is an educator, international author, and lecturer. His mission is “Changing World’s Health One Person at a Time.” Dr. Meletis has authored 18 books and over 200 national scientific articles in journals, including Natural Health, Alternative and Complementary Therapies, Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, Life Extension, NDNR, Natural Pharmacy, and articles on PubMed.
Dr. Meletis served as Dean of Naturopathic Medicine and Chief Medical Officer for seven years for the National College of Naturopathic Medicine (now the National University of Natural Medicine). The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians awarded him the 2003 Physician of the Year. He has a deep passion for helping the underprivileged and spearheaded the creation of 16 free natural medicine healthcare clinics in the Portland metropolitan area of Oregon.
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She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
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Episode 141: Hacking your genes with Dr. Mansoor Mohammed
01:41:31
Dr. Mohammed is the Founder and President of ManaGene considered one of the most innovative leaders in the emerging personalized medicine and lifestyle genomics space.
In August 2018, ManaGene merged with Youtrients (www.youtrients.me) to form a new company known as The DNA Company. The DNA Company represents the evolution of functional genomics and is focused solely on the optimization of human health and performance.
Dr. Mohammed is widely regarded as a pioneer in medical genomics and has been the recipient of multiple academic and industry awards. He is the holder of several patents in the general fields of molecular diagnostics and genomics research and is one of the most sought-after national and international conference speakers in the genre of personalized medical genomics.
In this interview, Lisa and Dr. Mansoor dive deep into the power that lies in understanding your unique genes to change the outcome of your health.
Some take the fatalistic view that if you have a bad gene or combination of genes you are powerless against them so it's best not to know but nothing could be further from the truth. Understanding your genes through DNA testing is like getting the user manual to your body and learning how best to care and treat it. The granularity with which you can start to understand processes and how these affect you and how you impact these is astounding.
This s actionable knowledge that will help you make informed decisions regarding your health in such areas as your hormones, your cardiovascular risk factors, your methylation, your detoxification processes and even your mood and behavior, why for example some have a tendency to more problems around depression or PTSD than others.
Never before in the history of the human species have we had such deep insides into the way our intricate and complex bodies work.
This episode is set to blow your mind and the work of Dr. Mohammed and his team is set to change the future of the world's health. We have the opportunity for the first time to take control of our own destinies rather than falling victim to our genes through a lack of knowledge.
Once you start to see and understand the power of functional genomics you won't be able to go back to the way you understood yourself and your body before. Your level of self-acceptance and the ability to help yourself heal and be healthy and whole will be taken to a whole new level.
If you would like to get your hormones or your whole genomic profile tested you can find out more at www.thednacompany.com
Hormone Report with The DNA Company
If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.
Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.
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When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
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Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Developmental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality - Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs.
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Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:13) Hey team. We're this week I have an absolutely superstar, the world's number one leading functional genomic specialists, Dr. Mohammed from Toronto and Canada. Dr Mansoor, Mohammed has two guests now. He is a scientist and entrepreneur in the field of genomics and is regarded as one of the most innovative leaders in the emerging personalized medicine and lifestyle genomic space. Dr Mohammed is a PhD and president and scientific officer at the DNA company and is really considered to be a pioneer medical genomics. He's a classically trained molecular immunologist who has received academic and industry awards, published numerous papers and holds patients in the general fields of molecular diagnostics in genomics. Now functional genomics is about understanding the DNA and how it behaves in every definition and this Dr. Mentor was very different than many of the other DNA companies that I've looked at recently and that he doesn't just look at the single litters, if you like, of the DNA, but it looks in combinations of genes.
Speaker 2: (01:22) And how they're playing out. And this makes him very, very different. This, he sees DNA like a language rather than a vocabulary and language that has grammar, sentence structure, Syntex and nuances. And you've got to be able to read genetic structure at the holistic level. Now I'm super excited about document's all his work and I'm studying functional genomics at the moment and it is the next level in personalized health. I'm really, really excited to bring this interview to you. It's taken me months to get documents or on this podcast and I'm hoping later on the year to get Dr. Mansoor Down to New Zealand for a lecture tour to speak to functional medicine practitioners down here as well as the public. So if you'd like to know more about that, please reach out to me and let me know. I'm just like to remind you before I hand over to Dr. Mansoor that my book launch is happening just next week over the time of this recording is the 6th of March and on the 11th of March.
Speaker 2: (02:26) So by the time this recording actually comes out, my book will be live. It's called relentless and it tells the story of bringing my mum back after a major aneurism myth. You're fighting for a life and lift her in and basically not much over a vegetative state. Massive brain damage at the age of 64 and what I did to beat all the odds and bringing my mum back to health, all of the CRPS I used, the protocols, the attitude, the mindset, the obstacles that we had to overcome, the problems that I've discovered in our medical system in on it goes. So this book is really, I'm, I'm so pleased to be able to bring it out. It's taken me two years to get this together and to bring it to the public, but I really want to pay it forward and I want to help thousands and thousands of other people facing difficult challenges to take them are hit on with the right mindset to overcome great obstacles.
Speaker 2: (03:18) So if you'd like to check that out, we can head over to my website. I have Lisatamati.com Hit the shop button and you'll see all of my books there and my jewelry collections. But make sure you check out the neatness. It's really going to be worth a read for anyone who has major medical problems at the moment. Or of course anyone who has a stroke aneurysm Alzheimer's dementia, and wants to know about brain rehabilitation or optimizing your brain function and who isn't interested in that as well as the whole mental attitude and mindset that it takes to do all this. So without further ado, over to Dr. Mansoor Mohammed. Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again. Now I am just grinning from ear to ear. I can't stop smiling because I've been waiting for this interview for weeks. I have a very, very special guest, Dr. Mansoor Mohammed, all the way from Toronto in Canada. Dr. Mansoor How are you going?
Speaker 3: (04:17) I am great, Lisa. And likewise, it's been something that I've been looking forward to, to the audience. Please forgive me. I'm a little bit sleepy from Jeff blog from last night, but Lisa has been pumping me up and so we're going to have some fun of this
Speaker 2: (04:31) Now. I know what it's like when you're a little bit jetlagged and you have a main very much in demand. So I'm just so excited to have a little bit of time with you now. Dr Mansoor, I do the whole introduction on a separate recording, but dr Mansoor, can you give us a little bit of background about your what you did your PhD in your, your, a little bit of a brief history of your back.
Speaker 3: (04:55) Sure. genes. Genetics has always have always been my love. The study of how this operating manual, just just thinking, just, just dialing it back and thinking that the human being, we've got this operating manual that by every definition of the word it behaves like an operating manual. And to think that it's there and to think that one date might be accessible and that we could read this and we could read it intelligently and just simply understand myself much less, much less. Anyone else has always been my love. And so I started, my PhD is in applied molecular genetics and immunology. So I was looking at the genetics of the immune system. I was very, very fortunate to have an awesome mentor. She was then the chair of molecular biology at UCLA invited me to UCLA. So I had an awesome couple of postdocs there where I got deeper and deeper involved in eugenics.
Speaker 3: (05:47) But a real pivotal point happened when I was done, invited to come to Baylor college of medicine and Houston, Texas. And it was that heavy time just about the human genome project, its, you know, sort of pinnacle. And I was asked because of the work that I had been doing with UCLA to come over to Baylor and start a company, the goal of this company was to begin looking at multiplex genomics. In other words, to really do the, you know, the barrage searches into the human genome. Not one gene at a time, but looking at the entire genome in pathway type manners. Now initially we applied this knowledge to cancers. We apply this knowledge to developmental disorders syndromes, Prader, Willi syndrome, autistic spectrum disorders and so on and so forth. And about 15 years ago, after many years of doing what I call disease genomics, looking at the operating manual, looking at when the operating money was broken out of what happens from a disease perspective.
Speaker 3: (06:45) Then I sort of thought, okay, well that was fun. That was good. That was, but why should I not look at the operating manual? But nothing is purportedly broken, but just the operating manual. So then still we can tell presumptively healthy individuals how to stay healthy or how to get over the type of chronic illnesses. So this is what I've been doing for the last 15 years, studying, researching and applying the knowledge of the human genomic operating manual. So we've been, we can just simply understand it. How does the body work, which clearly there's an individuality to that, obviously. I mean, we are human beings. We all, our cells, our organs, our bodies, all have to accomplish the same jobs that we do. These jobs with nuance differences, some of us less optimal, more optimal, more efficient, less efficient. And when we can zone into that, when we can read this operating manual from that perspective, really Lisa miracles happened with the sort of insights that you get, the nuances that you can tease out. It really has transformed the clinicians. We train the patients, we work with the transforms, it empowers the individual to understand how their body works and what they might do to obtain that optimal health.
Speaker 2: (07:59) This is, and this is a super exciting and I can feel your passion coming through despite the jet lag for this area and it's now mind you, passion is of the last maybe two months or six weeks or however long it is now that I've been diving into this world and just going, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, this is just, this is just the next level and the information that I've been searching for to try to understand because everything seems so generic. And this a personalized house and yeah, doctor man saw you the president and founder of the DNA company, which is offering direct to public and in conjunction with conditions. A couple of reports. So our full genomic report in a hormone report and I want to tease apart a little bit today, why should people even consider having a look at these, the sort of testing what benefits they can get out of it.
Speaker 2: (08:58) And I'd like to also tease a little bit about looking at other, like I've, I've looked at a lot of gene companies and that do gene DNA testing. And you had an analogy on a Bulletproof radio that I heard you on the same show who's amazing Dave and his work that was about the most people are looking at it DNA as a vocabulary and not a language. And that just seems them light bulb up in my head where I realized, okay, so it's not the siloed genes looking at them individually, but looking at cascades and pathways and combinations of genes as we are then interpretation has been missing today.
Speaker 3: (09:43) Oh, 100%. So I always say, you know, Lisa, anyone that is in the data business, regardless of whatever data you're collecting, data is really quite dumb. Data in and of itself doesn't mean anything unless you know what to ask of the data unless you know how to triage, how to approach the data. So when we use the analogy as DNA, the operating manual, the genome, it really meets all the classifications and descriptions of a language. Thus far we've been looking at DNA and genetics from a language perspective purely as a vocabulary exercise. The more words we know, the better we presume to think we know the language. And as much as that is important as per the analogy that I drew with on Dave, show a person simply knowing more vocabulary by no means mean they understand the language. And so when it comes to DNA, when it comes to genetics, when it comes to how this awesome operating manual, the architecture of it, it's not just about vocabulary, it's not just about the individual genes.
Speaker 3: (10:51) So here are the two layers implicit in your question that we do a bit differently and why we need to do that differently and why it's important that it's done this way. The first is this. When you're looking at the DNA, if the person are either genetic makeup, the vast, vast majority of companies right now, they're looking at things called snips, single nucleotide polymorphisms. In other words, they're looking at places which is absolutely important. They're looking at spelling variations in this operating manual. And of course these spelling variations, these single nucleotide polymorphisms will impart to you mean Jane, Paul, Peter, the same cellular job that we all want to do. These spelling differences can impact the efficiency with which we do that job and that is important to know, but while we're at that point of spelling, you see per any language, if I wrote a paragraph, I might have spelling errors in that paragraph, but there are examples where I may have inadvertently deleted a sentence or deleted a couple of sentences in that paragraph.
Speaker 3: (12:00) Now, if the analogy here is that the gene is the paragraph, so your operating manual are these 23 volumes. Think of it. Think of a 23 volume and psychopathic set these awesome, huge volumes. Now we're going to inherit two of these 23 volumes. One from mom, one from dad, and these volumes are properly arranged and when we open up any page, let's say we go to volume three from mum volume three from dad, we open up page four on each of those volumes and we look at paragraph five page four, volume three we, I see the same paragraph. We're going to see the same information from dad's gene paragraphs of genes and mom's gene. We're going to see the same information, but when we look really carefully, when we look at those paragraphs, really collect carefully, we might find that there's some spelling differences. Those are the snips.
Speaker 3: (12:57) We may also find that on either dad or mom's paragraph, a sentence was missing and I just taught this over the weekend. So I was in the auditorium and I said, okay, here's an instruction that was waiting for me coming to this auditorium to give this lecture, Dr Mansoor, go to auditorium B and to the left door approach to podium from the right side, press the enter button, begin your lecture. That's an instruction. That's a paragraph. That's an instruction and that's the equivalent of a gene. Now in that paragraph they make has been a few spelling errors or changes that may have confused me a little as to what the instructions are. But when I look at it carefully, I could sort of still figure it out. Okay. But if in that paragraph, the sentence that says go to auditorium B was missing at, of course there are multiple auditoriums, all of the other parts of the instructions are there.
Speaker 3: (14:03) But I can really be confused as to what is the ultimate thing that I'm supposed to do. It's called an indel. So in our genes, not only do our genes have slips, many important genes actually have places within them that I'm missing. So until we test for those type of changes, we're by no means getting the full picture of what is happening. The third thing is this, not only do we have slips, not only do we have in Dells, there are occasions where the entire gene is missing is show I'm supposed to show up. I got to the hotel where the conferences are and the instruction just telling me what it's just not even there. So here I'm in the lobby going, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. This example is a genetic phenomenon keeping the analogy, this is called this C and V copy number variation.
Speaker 3: (15:03) We see because we were supposed to have two copies of that. Paragraph five page four, volume three. Sometimes believe it or not, when we go to page four we've opened up mum's volume three dad's volume three. There they are. We're going to read both of the instructions cause that's what yourself has to do at any given moment. When there's a job to be done, your cell goes and pulls the volume that has that instruction, takes down a mum's copy, takes down, dad's copy, opens up and reads the instruction. Now in the case of a CMV copying of the variation, we can open up mum's volume three page four there is paragraph one, paragraph two, paragraph three paragraph four paragraph six. Oops, wait a minute. Where's part of our five? It's gone. There's part of four. There's part of six. I look over a dad. He's got all of the paragraphs or vice versa.
Speaker 3: (16:02) Sometimes Lisa, both paragraph fives are gone. Okay. So the point of the first answer to your question, why we do things a bit differently is we're not just in the business of collecting data for data's sake. We're collecting data. Are you were doing gene testing to understand a process. When we designed genetic tests, we don't begin with genes. We begin in a whiteboard saying, what is the thing in the human body that we want to study? What is the thing that we want to study? Genetics, just good old fashioned medical textbook, human physiology. Do we want to study the way the newer chemicals are produced and bonding and response? Do we want to study how the human body makes sex hormones? Something we should talk about when it comes to human performance. So how does the male and female body makes progesterones androgens Astros? And then we mapped that out.
Speaker 3: (16:56) Forget genetics, which is not about how does the human body do that? No, of course, if the human body's having to do something, then it means there are genetic instructions for that film. So only when we map out the cellular, the cellular biology, the cascade, only when we met that out, then we come in and we pencil it. This gene is responsible for here. This gene is responsible for there such that at the end of the exercise, we've got a genetic test that already tells a story. The result from that genetic test is telling you the entire cascade. Step one, step two. We look at each of those genes that are telling us the story and we ask are these snips that are important? Are there entails that are important? Are the CNVs that are important because all three make a wow. And so the first part to the answer to your question is if you've been looking at genetic tests that are only reporting snips, you are dramatically limiting the variations that you and I and every other person have within our genome. So you're missing the nuances that are in your language to clarify the job to be done. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: (18:16) Absolutely. So that actually puts them together in my head because I've been starting this, I don't know, like for example, the GSTT one gene and the detox and antioxidant pathway, one of those types of genes that can be completely done.
Speaker 3: (18:31) Completely. Totally said, absolutely. And of course it belongs to super family. So there are multiple G S T genes, but two minutes on that. If you're going to design the human body and you're going to say, listen, one day we're going to make this thing called human being and we're going to put him or her in this wonderful world, but mind you, he or she is going to have to deal with some toxic insults, both from without and from within. Where would you, and you know that, where would you put your detox defenses? Well, they're about four places. If you're an intelligent designer, you would put your detox, different defenses at least in four places. You would say, how and where do things get into the human body, dermal skin, the nose, nasal Bronxville lung, the GI track. Okay. So those are how things get it.
Speaker 3: (19:23) And unsurprisingly you would want to make sure your detox genes and the things that you'd want to make sure there's super active in those places. And then you, you'd also say, well look, at the end of the day, things are always going to get past borders inside of the body, their waste products. So then I'm also going to put a detox organ. The liver, when we go to the human body, this is where we find these detox genes expressing themselves. And each of the GST is have sub specialties. Some of them are more important in the nasal bronchial track, some of them more important in the GI track and so on and so forth. So when you know the story that you want to read about the body, you know how to read the manual and interpret, is the GST T one gene deleted or not? This is a massive implication to the human body.
Speaker 3: (20:16) Can you imagine the GSTT one gene is one of, if not the most important bio transforming antioxidizing enzymes in the body per its name and its gene and its enzyme. And if a person doesn't have it, literally it's not in mere manual. The GSTT one gene is on volume 22 and if that paragraph you have not inherited it from either mum or dad, you are missing an enzyme in your body. That is one of the most important detox. Now doesn't mean that you're not compatible with life, but it most certainly means you could not be the person who says, well you know what do you have a metals mean after all they're not that bad. Oh you know what, my uncle smoked until he was 80 years old. I'm going to smoke as well. Well you can't compare yourself to that person cause you don't have one of the most awesome detox genes.
Speaker 2: (21:13) You don't have a good defense mechanism. And so like the detox is actually the first port of call before the immune system even does this job. So I'm, I'm excited to get my tests back cause I haven't gotten gotten through the reports yet. I'm, I'm suspecting that I have a problem in my GC jeans because I'm a very young age. For example, I've been the next medic as a, as a severe asthmatic, as a child, and I'm very hypersensitive to smells and anything. So I'm like a Canary one C one, which is theta. Yes,
Speaker 3: (21:54) Very important in the liver. Key one PI GSTP one is the one that's really important in your nasal bronchiolar lung cavity. Individuals with a suboptimal P one are at extreme risk of early ectopic asthmas. They're the ones that if they go into the shopping mall, you know, the perfume resection, they've got to avoid the perfume resection. Right? Those are the GSTP ones.
Speaker 2: (22:21) Wow. I'm obey. Fascinating to see if that's what comes back. And so if you want it deleted into them, we'll get onto hormones next because I really want to dive into there, but just to, to to look at the GST genes. If you don't have, you either have only one inherited GST, one gene, your mother or your father and you're missing the other ones or you're missing both altogether, are you more likely to have you're more likely to have toxins coming in that you can't deal with as well. And then your immune system is this way or auto-immune or part of the
Speaker 3: (22:57) Brilliant, brilliant question. Just before we answer that, I had mentioned there were two layers to differentiate yourself, so just so that we close the chapter on what we do differently. So I'm going to come back and, and so now we will take it forward. We just mentioned that there you have to be mindful of the three different layers of variations, snips in Dalles with pieces of the genome missing and CNVs where the whole gene may be missing. The other quick differentiator, bringing back the analogy of a language, bringing back the story of the human body, it's this, and I told the audience this, there was an audience of clinicians in Phoenix this weekend. I said, have you ever read a really good, you know, suspense novel and not suspense novel, the novel that the author's painting the character and you're thinking he's the bad guy, you know, and he's falling around the heroin and he knows he looks a bit shady.
Speaker 3: (23:51) And then until or unless you've read the entire book, you only find out that he was a protector or he was something. He was a guardian and words. He wasn't about that guy. Now what the heck does this have to do with genes? The second player, when we mentioned that we do things differently, we said that DNA is really a language by all of its definitions, with its nuances is this, there are many genes, Lisa, where if you were to look at that gene as a standalone and if you was to look at the genotype of that gene, in other words, what version do you have? You think you have either the best version or the worst version depending, and you may think you have the best version for example, but it is not until you look at a completely independent gene that has nothing to do with this gene, that the version of that independent gene wow colors, whether your actual optimal version of gene a will stay optimal or not.
Speaker 3: (24:52) Or conversely, whether you thought you had the suboptimal version of a bad guy, you read the full story, something else tells you what you fought was the bad guy was not the bad guy. Wow. And this is what it's called at peace basis. You see we're all concerned about epigenetics, which is important. FP genetics. How are we reading? Are we actually going to read that paragraph on the page or are we not going to read? That's at the genetics, but nobody's talking about epi. Stacy, this is Stacy. This is often, we've read the page after we've read the paragraph. We cannot yet make a conclusion until we read 10 pages later, 15 pages later, something there. We'll bring it to life. We'll color what we read on page three.
Speaker 2: (25:48) Yeah, so, so for example, if you're, if you're looking at a specific gene and it has an, that is say the faster for the sip, 79A1 gene and the hormone a kiss guide. If it's a fast one that's not in and of itself a good or a bad thing. It depends on the other things. It depends on the, so that's what you're meaning. So one of
Speaker 3: (26:14) The best examples of that is this, the BDNF gene, the BDNF gene, brain derived neurotrophic factor. What are the most important genes in the brain? Well, in the whole human genome that tells the brain how to secrete this awesome thing that heals the brain. You and I were having a conversation about a loved one, so that loved ones B, D and F was going to be hugely important. And how that loved one recuperated from the challenge that she had met BDNF. Now the beating of gene has an important variation. A snip this time, which is either a G version or a version. Okay. TheG version, Jews and George as in guanine is the optimal version of BDNF, the optimal version. So if you're a GG blessed, that's good. You are naturally predisposed. You have the in Harrods, the innate ability to make more BDNF.
Speaker 3: (27:13) And let me tell you that's a good thing. Any which way you slice it. Wow. An independent gene, the TPH to gene the trip to five hydroxylase gene to TPH, two gene, which is involved in how the body deals with serotonin. K two has a sip. It comes in a G version and a T version G as in George T as in Thomas. The G version is considered optimal but hold on. If you happen to be GG fatigue, pH two and GG for BDNF ostensively both those genotypes for each affair genes are optimal, but if you were GG for both, it creates a haplotype. It creates a combination that is an act risk combination and it is, it is the negative combination. It is the, it is the deleterious combination when it comes to certain aspects of human behavior. These individuals, when you're GGGG, they exhibit poor inhibition of negative emotional stimuli.
Speaker 3: (28:28) In other words, when something negatively emotionally affects them, their ability to kinship, the ability to say, you know what, I'm not going to focus. I'm not going to hamster wheel constantly play that over and over over again. They haven't, they have a hard time giving up that when something gets under their skin. So to speak emotionally, they have a really hard time getting over it so they have a strong imprint. The memory imprint, very strong EMI, emotional memory imprint and of course the stronger you EMI emotionally memory imprints, the easier you emotional memory recall EMR is because the deeper something is imprinted then the smallest cue. You have a love, you have a partner and you know you love each other to bits, but like human beings, you're going to have your ups and downs. I mean it's where human beings after all, and on one particular evening you were both getting on each other's nerves and she was wearing that beautiful red dress and that was the evening that you both said things you shouldn't have said and it hurts the person who has this phenomena.
Speaker 3: (29:36) Whenever he sees his wife, would that red dress down the road, everything's perfect. You, you're going up for a birthday party, you're both happy, it rises back up. He remembers that evening more than he should. It brings back to the surface and vice versa. This is that Paul, inhibition of negative emotional stimuli that lead to profound memory imprinting and therefore profound memory. Recall. The point of all of this and the reason I mentioned this is, and we're going to come back to the GSTT one, was to clarify, you see Lisa, it's not just about even the type of things you're looking for. What matters is the interpretation we sell the combination, we are reading the manual, not just flipping, picking words out.
Speaker 2: (30:24) This is we have a calmer is well we are the, the apostrophes are this is someone that is what they would be more prone to PTSD
Speaker 3: (30:36) 100 that's the point actually and that is further exacerbated based on the no adrenergic pathway which dramatically increases the risk of PTSD. It is exacerbated based on how quickly they are removing their dopamine and noradrenaline via content. So what happens is you begin to pixelate a picture and you've got a low resolution picture and then the more intelligence information you put in, you start to increase the resolution of that picture. You start to get a clearer picture of the person that you're looking at. But to do so, you've got to know where to pick slate. If I'm trying to get a better look at what Lisa's face look like, I don't really be pixelating your toes. I need to pick slick your face and this, this ability to read intelligently. Lisa, I stress intelligently. Riyadh, human genome. Yeah, that's what we do. We do
Speaker 2: (31:35) That is absolutely insane. And they've vacations because yeah, I would have seen, Oh, you've got a G G G is good, but I've just understood that nuance, that combination of things. And now I can't wait to get my reports and my family reports so I could because this helps us also understand like the speed in which you are dopamine is processed and gotten rid off or the speed of which we're saratonin tone and all of these things have a fixed on your personality and that we're not 100% to blame for some of our differences.
Speaker 3: (32:12) Oh gosh, no. Gosh, no. In fact, what this needs to do on the one hand, it creates the empathy of appreciating, look, this is how some of this is their predisposition. Now, on the other hand, it is not to create a sense of fatalism. While that's the way I am, I know I have found and I have done. The only thing that I've done, probably somewhat unique and special Lisa, is I have reviewed thousands upon thousands of profiles. In terms of my in the world, most of my peers that work at the level I do would say Dr. Mansoor Probably reviewed the most genomic profiles in the world. I don't know if that's true or not, but I certainly have reviewed several thousand meaning meeting the patient, speaking with their doctor, looking at their health profiles and looking at underlining genetic phenomena to see if we can understand what's going on.
Speaker 3: (33:00) You know what I found, at least as a fellow, when you empower a person to understand a predisposition, you, you might think that leads to fatalism, but when you explain the functional reality, it actually does the opposite. It gives the person a sense of ownership and then they can finally say, you know, I have dumped with my entire life, I've been this way and I just, I didn't even know why it was that way. Now that I can even understand what's going on, it gives me some closure. Yes, but it now gives me something to appreciate. I can, I can envision how this is working, how my emotions are working. I can now go, you know what? As soon as I see that stimulus that would have got me on that slippery slope, I'm going to stop. I'm not going to go down that slippery slope because I know if I do, there's no coming back for the next two weeks.
Speaker 3: (33:52) So what we've found is that this crew all around it just creates empowerment. Which brings me now to the question that you asked about GSTT one and you are, your connections are on point, Lisa, the connection between the detox mechanism of the body. Here's the threefold, and of course it's a bit more complicated, but it's also remarkable. You can take complex systems, break them down to building blocks and keep the acuity. So there are three building blocks we need to look at when we connect detoxification pathways in the body and the immune system. And the, the only thing missing is the inflammatory system. So the triangulation between toxins and immune responses goes like this. The human body's insulted with whatever. It's insulted with the intentional, the unintentional of our daily lives, those toxins enter the body or they try to enter the body. Step number one, how individually efficient is that person at negating bio transforming, neutralizing those toxins either before they can enter the body, such as in the mucosa of the lung, the alveoli lumen, the the lining of the lung, such as the GI mucosa and so on.
Speaker 3: (35:16) And so what can we, can we neutralize it so the toxin doesn't even get into the bloodstream? And of course to the degree that it gets into the bloodstream, can we live a hepatic re detoxified so that at least it does not by you accumulate in the body so that at least it does not reach levels that are unsafe. First step number one now too, there are genes, there are whole gene families, their whole cellular processes, GSTs, glutathione, ionization, UGI, Ts, glucuronidation, methylation, self, phonation and acetylation. These are the major enzymatic steps linked to genetic genes that are responsible for bio transforming neutralizing things in our body, okay? So what we need to do is we say, what is the lifestyle environmental context of the person? What are they getting exposed to? I'll be living in a home that has written with mold, are they living and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3: (36:17) Okay, step number one, step number two, how good are they at individually neutralizing those toxins so as to not bio accumulate them to the degree that those, whatever. The answer to that question is we're going to have an individualization and with some individuals are better at getting rid of toxins and others are not. If a person is not genetically, innately efficient, optimal at getting rid of their toxins, then what happens? Well, what do toxins do? Toxins cause cellular inflammation, okay? And they cause inflammation via any number of methodologies. They can inflame cell surface receptors, they can get into the cell and create overproduction of oxidants as they can hamper the energy modules, the mitochondria. That's one of the places you'd never want toxins getting to. And of course they can get into the nuclear eye. They can get into the libraries of the operating manual and they can start to change gene expression.
Speaker 3: (37:23) So toxins do all of these things. Ultimately, you see Lisa 15 not even 15 years ago, 10 years ago, if you told that a medical conference, there's this concept of inflammation. You'd have a lot of professionals. Well, come on, you gotta be more specific than that. We actually now know that there is a phenomena called chronic inflammation, and regardless of what stimulated that inflammation, bat bacterial toxin B, it's an inorganic chemical. It be it a physical inflammation. It does not matter the way the sun looks, the way the cell begins to behave when it has been insulted with toxins, with exposures, remarkably is the same regardless of the stimulus. Because chronic inflammation has hallmarks that are similar regardless of the stimulus. Now at that juncture, when the cell is inflamed, when the machinery in the cell isn't doing the job that it's meant to do properly, that cell now starts to be like this pulsing red thing just by analogy.
Speaker 3: (38:35) In other words, the body is looking at it going, something's happening in there. It's not behaving the way it should. Okay, so now we're going to have two steps. The body now has an anti inflammatory set of steps to quiet us, to bring the cell back into line cause they Whoa, Whoa, hold on. You're starting to misbehave. There's too much inflammation. This is where it's selling the process known as methylation comes in. Cellular methylation can be viewed. It's a detox reaction by the way, but it is a cellular cascade that is radically responsible for bringing your soul from that humming, inflamed, you know, ticking bomb type of modality back down to acquire essence behavior. That's cellular methylation. Now, to the degree that you're able to do that, because suddenly methylation is a multigene cascade, multiple places where things could be not as optimal as we would like.
Speaker 3: (39:36) So to the degree that we then triage, we stratify the patients based on their detox potential. We then stratify them based on their anti inflammatory potential. Now, to the degree that we are not quite yessing that chronic inflammation, this is where the immune system can be activated. Immune system was meant to be activated in acute episodes, not chronic episodes. The more you ask the cell to produce antibodies, IgG, IGA is IGMs, particularly IgGs. The more you keep telling that the body pump out IgG, something's not working right, something is there, which is why chronic infections are now very well understood to be linked to autoimmune diseases. The infection did, did not go away, constantly demanded of the body to produce antibodies. And somewhere along the line those antibodies begin to forget what was the bacteria or what and what was the self. And now we just start shooting friend and foe alike. Wow. This is the triangulation that has become now a focal point of so many diseases. Some diseases being more relevant to the whole, you know, things like lying disease. Do you guys have lung disease down in New Zealand?
Speaker 2: (41:05) I think, yes, we do. And I think you know we have a massive problem with like thyroid, Hashimoto's sort of autoimmune diseases, crones, IVs. So this is, this is where the body is actually going in overdrive. So the, the original detox genes haven't been able to do their job because combination.
Speaker 3: (41:26) There's that one. Exactly. There's inflammation. Yup.
Speaker 3: (41:33) Methylation didn't do the job that was supposed to do and now we're triggering. So there are meta-analyses meta-analyses that show the deletion of the GSTT one gene or overall poor Ghouta finalization has been strongly linked with ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, IBD, strongly linked with ectopic asthma, particularly GSTP one in early childhood asthma. Then of course, if you, if you double down on poor math on poor detoxification with poor methylation, you really start seeing
Speaker 2: (42:10) Clinical outcome. Yes. Yeah. So, so if we then we, we, we find out all this about ourselves. We find out we've got either the good or the bad and the ugly. And these combinations are not ideal. Then how, you know, we've got this information now, now we want to know what the heck do I do about this? I can't change my DNA. Of course, all things that these reports that your company does, for example, where it can actually lead to some successful outcomes. Obviously avoiding cigarette smoke or exhaust folk tunes and things your GPS deleted. But, but beyond that, nutraceuticals, new nutrients what can be done to help people.
Speaker 3: (42:52) So it starts with, so the first thing I would have to say is we take our reports only so far. So the actual report, we take it to the point of explanation of what's happening. And there are certain recommendations, but the real magic must still come from a trained population, you know? So what, so what we do is through also training a certain class of healthcare providers. We might call them the, the new modern day biohackers. The healthcare providers who are really sniff, they're no longer just, you know, pill pushers. They're looking. So I just wanted to clarify. We take the reports, we explain the systems, we explain what's happening, but we also have to be careful so that people aren't jumping to conclusions and self-treating based. So you still want to have someone who understands the bigger picture. And by the way, that's the second part of what our company does.
Speaker 3: (43:47) As per my travel schedule, I'm constantly traveling, teaching people, teaching auditoriums full of doctors who are now saying, listen, if I keep practicing medicine the way that I'm practicing, I'm just dealing with a disease population. I'm not healing people. Okay, so with that minor clarification, now we come to, let me paint a picture, paints a thousand words not to be, you know, blahzay here's what I like people to picture and here's what you would want to picture for yourself. Lisa. Picture slide. Okay, so there's a slide your screen, okay, and a circle. And then picture a circle on that screen somewhere on your screen. There's a circle. Now because you're a human being, your circle is going be on the screen. In other words, this is the screen of all human beings and your circle, you, your circle is somewhere on the screen or what does the circle represents? It represents your genetic makeup, which represents a part of your genetic makeup for whatever biochemical process we were studying. So this circle is Lisa's genomic pathway. Okay.
Speaker 3: (44:56) I want you to then think of an equilateral triangle that equal three sided triangle that just perfectly encompasses your circle just perfectly. Your circle is perfectly encompassed just right in that triangle. And the emphases of this triangle are labeled environment, lifestyle and nutrition. Yes. What we're learning and what we're recognizing more and more is other than extreme cases, other than extreme cases, and there are mind you extreme cases where a particular genetic combination was really just a real doozy. And in other words, we're going to see some, you know, with the best of efforts, we're going to see some probably deleterious outcomes. Fair enough. But other than those extreme cases, for the vast majority of us, the spite, any inefficiencies we might have if we find the right triangulation of lifestyle, nutrition and lifestyle, nutrition and environment. If we could figure that out and it perfectly matches, I would circle.
Speaker 3: (46:08) This is optimal health. So image, the image of optimal health is when you can find your genomic makeup, your circle for whatever you're studying and contextualize it perfectly within the right for you. For Lisa Laughlin, sir, not for Joanne Felisa. What is leases? Optimal lifestyle, nutrition and environment. Now the problem is, Lisa, when we begin working with a patient, obviously and clinicians with their patients, the vast majority of individuals, they do not know their circle. They don't know what's the economic influence. So they don't, and if you don't know your circle, your triangulation, choices of lifestyle choices, nutrition choices, and environmental choices offers skewed and they are not synergistic with your circle. So first objective of this, did you get that picture? Do you know when people say, well, it depends on your genes, your genes. It depends on how you're using your body. If you are, if you took, if you took five identical individuals, they were, you know, quintuplets identical, contemplative.
Speaker 3: (47:27) If such a thing exists in today, the same genes and you give those five people at 35 years old, the exact diet. But if those five, one of them was an ultra marathon runner and extreme sports enthusiasts, the other was a couch potato, I don't know, doing whatever the other was a, you know, an accountant who had a nine to five job. We can exercise worrier, but from Monday through Friday really just goes to work, comes home, eats, goes to that and so on and so forth. Even with the same jeans, you can put the nutrition and an obviously not expect the same outcome because they got to know the genomic legacy. You've got to know what is the lifestyle context, what is the nutritional context, what is the environment or context? If one of the things quintuplets moved from your gorgeous country and move to massive metropolis with, you know, air quality, that breathing for one day is the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes in your beautiful country.
Speaker 3: (48:36) He or she may have gotten away with a GSTT one or GSTP, one suboptimal ability. He's living in those, you know, that wonderful country views. He's practicing otherwise good, not eating foods with pesticides and herbicides and so on and so forth. And he was going about life actually, not really realizing there was any suboptimal ability until one day his job took him to a big metropolis somewhere. He lost track of the quality of his foods. He's just so busy. He's day in, day out breathing the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes and then six months into this, all things ELLs as equal, his jeans are equal, but he now starts to show symptomologies that he would never have had any different environment and a nice clean environment. Right? So this triangulation is so important. Now coming back to the specifics, once we understand the pathways, we begin first with the dose.
Speaker 3: (49:31) It may seem simple, but it actually enters Lisa into, it's not just about the obvious things that you might imagine. I give the example, Lisa, and by the way, it's relevant to the GSTT one gene. Now, juice, TT. Let's focus on the T one. It's the big sister in the glue, the fine fabric. So GSTT one no, it's what's called a phase two detox pathway. Phase two detox. Because when it talks and enters the human body, we typically go through two steps. We take toxin a, we converted into an intermediate B. Yup. We take B further, convert that to C. C is what leaves the body, the B to C part of the transformation. That's where the GSTs come in. The a to B. This is where your cytochrome P four 50s come in. That's the phase one. Bio transforming enzymes. Now if I were to ask you something, when you say fiber to say, would it be a good practice for person to start drinking a nice cup of green juice?
Speaker 3: (50:38) You know, like some juice, juice, broccoli and some maybe put a little bit of a baby spinach in there. A bit of ginger, maybe some cute, cute curcumin at the end of it. Would that be a really healthy drink? Yes. Something I do every day. Beautiful, beautiful. And it is healthy generally speaking. So now someone puts a blog together giving this recipe of something that's ostensibly so healthy and there's this mechanic who works in a shop all day with fuse and so on and so forth. He read this blog, she read this blog and she decides that before she goes to work, she's going to have this beautiful juice. This green juice that they read was so healthy and it was a detox juice and they feel good about themselves. Hold on, hold on. Many of the ingredients and not green juice. Many of the ingredients in that green shoes turn on certain phase one sip four 50 enzymes so as to accelerate the conversion of a to B.
Speaker 3: (51:54) Now some of the toxins a that this mechanic was facing in her shop, in the, in the, in the mechanic shop that she was working at, when she converts a to B, we know that the B, the intermediate is truly more toxic than wow. And by the way, she did not know she was a GST one deleted individual. Oh, so what did we do to this young woman? We encourage the things that is that we're getting into her body. When she drove that beautiful healthy green juice, she more rapidly converted her A's into B and then ups B's and to CS very well. Wow. Even something that would ostensibly be really healthy by normal standards. Do you see that's a healthy nutrition on the triangle, but we did not ask what was the environment on the triangle and so now we have skewed her triangle away because her genetics circle, she does not have the GSTT one. Do you get that picture? This is a little bit frightening for people who are listening to this or who might be going well, what's the point being?
Speaker 3: (53:16) This is weird. The reports have the super value, isn't it? That's the point. It's, it's actually not discouraging. It's, it's finally, and this is all gold. It's finally meant to unravel those nuances that there is such a thing. Have you been? How many of us, you know, we do something that 20 or the coworkers swore was the best thing since sliced bread and then we tried it and not only did it not work, we actually felt like crap or less healthy, and we, we're all aware of this until it's what is it led? It's led for most of us to become numb. We're just kind of get to that point where we're like, well, I don't know what's right for me or run for me. Plus today it says one thing tomorrow it says another thing. So creating some sanity from this confusion is what this goal is about and it can be done.
Speaker 3: (54:11) Lisa, when you take your time to read things, intelligent meals, explain things. That's why we've got these epiphany moments that constantly, I like my consults with patients because I feed off of the energy. When a patient just, you see that epiphany admission and they light up and they go, Oh, that's why this hasn't been working with. That's why that was better for me. That's why I took methyl B12 because everyone's telling me methyl B12 is the best version. But every time I take methyl B is it just in my head. I get a headache every time I take micro B12 I get a, and then I go, no, actually I got one too. I can't take methyl before. That's an actual thing. I can't take methyl B12 because my methylation cascade is inconsistent with me taking methyl Beto when I take a dental Sobe 12. Oh, completely different.
Speaker 2: (55:07) Wow. So this is getting really granular for each individual. And this is what makes me so excited. And, but before we go on, we have to go and cover off the hormone report. This is something that I and, and this is, you know, for me and any woman, but I wanted to focus a little bit more in on the woman. We've got very complicated hormones, households, but this was the cascade for men and women is very, very similar, isn't it? Yes
Speaker 3: (55:33) It is. It's just remarkably, this is what we taught at the cost on the weekend after introducing genomics, it was the first open to eyes that the cascade, the circadian rhythm with which the human body converts progesterones into androgens, androgens to estrogens, men, we do not have a monopoly over androgens. Women, you do not have a monopoly over estrogens. In fact, your estrogens come from androgens. Men, we have estrogens. It's just a matter of the circadian rhythm. When is it happening? How quickly is it happening? And of course, ultimately how much of any of these hormones are produced. And then the final component is how responsive are you, the the woman's body, all things equal. She's designed with the estrogen receptors to be more responsive to estrogen. She responds to androgens as well. Conversely, for men. Now keep in mind something as simple as, I can't believe how many clinicians do not realize how an androgen or estrogen receptors.
Speaker 3: (56:32) Now let's stop there for this cascade. We can talk about all of the things about how hormones are produced and how they're metabolized and so on and so forth. But ultimately, how is estrogen affecting your body? Lisa, you're a young woman. You're making estrogen as if you're menstruating or if you want hormone replacement, there's likely some estrogens in your body, one way or the other when estrogen binds to your estrogen receptor. And to the degree that that can happen, mind you, because there are variations to that fidelity, this complex estrogen. So the estrogen receptor androgen to Stastrom, DHT to the androgen receptor. These complexes are some of the most potent DNA transcribing complex. They go into the nucleus and the churn on genes. This is how estrogen and testosterone impacts the human body. They live. They're not just, I don't know, causing breast development or, or, or, or Andrew demise in the book.
Speaker 3: (57:39) They do that by churning on the genes that cause the cells to behave in a more underutilized manner or more estrogen. So the first thing I want, our audience needs, our clinicians, we need to re re climatize reacquaint ourselves with that. These hormones potently DNA transcribing, they go into the nucleus and they turn on and off genes. That is why they are not to be dealt with trivially. Number one. Number two, in a menstruating woman. Now I just told you when estrogen enters a cell, I did binds its receptor. It's not just staying in the, in the Maloo of the South, it's going in to the volts, the nuclear volts and churning on and turning off genes. Wow. When you look at the ministerial cycle of, of a, of a relatively normal, repeatable menstrual cycle, you will notice something radically important over the course of 28 days.
Speaker 3: (58:43) The human female body isn't exposed to estrogen at the same amount every day, not at all. The human female body in 20 days only has about a six day or so window in which your estrogens that are really elevated and then it comes down. In other words, what is this telling us from a human biology perspective? It's saying that the type of gene expression changes the epigenetic phenomena that estrogens cause on your operating manual. You don't want that to be consistent and constant across the month, and this is very frightening when you look at contraceptive pill or hormone replacement therapy. So it's most certainly very frightening. That is not, let me be clear. That is not to say that there isn't a place or a time for these things. You know they are absolutely a young woman has to have the right to how she treats her body and what she does.
Speaker 3: (59:47) But there is a place in time you at least be equipped, at least be empowered before you make this decision as to a knowing what it's doing for you. Say, okay, look for these few months of my life, for these couple of years of my life, this is going to be a bit more important that I take these precautions, for example, but you should know that to do so indefinitely, month after month, year after year. Now they've got clinicians encouraging young woman not to even have a bleed through. There's no point for even the bleed. So just stay on the, you know, constant level, 24 seven three 65 15 years. How is this compatible with normal human physiology? When you understood what I just said? Yep. Now let's go a step further than that. You see estrogens do what we just said. They bind their receptors, they go into the cell so they go into the nucleus.
Speaker 3: (01:00:47) They change gene expression as they're meant to for brief periods during the month. Fair enough. Now, once those estrogens have done what they've done for those days, then the point of it is there's a circadian rhythm. The body breaks down those estrogens metabolizes them by a transforms them so that they're no longer active. They've been neutralized, and then we hit repeat, rinse and repeat, and we start a new cycle. But here's the point. Every a woman, Lisa, every a woman, a man for that matter, but let's focus on the ladies when she made her estrogens or she took her estrogens, because even whether you take it or whether you make it innately or you take it, it doesn't matter. You've got to metabolize the estrogen. Now, every young woman can metabolize estrogens into three byproducts. I estrogen 400 Z estrogen, 16 hours for hydroxy estrogen. Every human being does this, and this is a crucial point.
Speaker 3: (01:01:49) Absolutely. But these three metabolites do not impact yourselves in the same way you say. If you thought of it, you've made the estrogen small window. Now you want to neutralize it so that the body isn't under its constant influence. So you want this metabolite, this estrogen, this hub light to have lost bind to the receptor. You want it to last. It's estrogen Ising properties. Lo and behold, four estrogen, one of those three metabolites retains the ability to bind the estrogen receptor. In fact, some studies show it might be an even more potent comm when it, when it binds and it creates this, this common, a tutorial, Leiden and receptor, it's DNA. Transcribing effects are even more potent, much like the analogy between DHT and the androgen receptor versus testosterone. DHT dihydrotestosterone, which is a metabolite of testosterone, has a higher potency binding affinity to the androgen receptor.
Speaker 3: (01:03:00) Four hydroxy estrogen is to the estrogen receptor as DHT is to the androgen receptor. Wow. The ability innate tendency of a young woman when she's faced with estrogens to make either the two hydroxy which is considered protective because has lost or the four hydroxy that inmate differentiation is radically genetically determinable. Now, if something as simple as that, Lisa, when you stitch these things together, when you understand, look, estrogen should be my body needs security and rhythm. I do not want estrogen is constant. When I break down those estrogens, I want my body to have had a break from them. And you did not know whether you were four hydroxy dominant or not. If you had a tendency to make more of the four hydroxy than the two and why is four hydroxy so naughty? Three reasons. A, it binds the estrogen receptor, not giving your body a break from the estrogen ization one to four hydroxy estrogen if you are not flushing it out of the body and how do you flush out for drugs, the estrogen through methylation, the comp gene, which is catechal methyl transfers an oops.
Speaker 3: (01:04:29) Can you imagine if you were innately genetic info, hydroxy dominant and have the slow comps because now you're making too much four hydroxyestrone you have a tendency to do so. You do not have the enzymatic ability to get rid of it. Now you buy your stagnate, your four hydroxy Astrid. Do you know what full hydroxy estrogen does other than binding the estrogen receptor and Quinones? Quinones? Listen, my God, you're speaking more than some of the best medical biologists that I've spoken to. So the, the decompose into Quinones and do you know what Quinones do? They get into your DNA. They stick to, they are mutagens. They stick to your DNA, causing the DNA to not be able to unravel and repair itself and by the Quinones then cause accidents. So here's what you don't want to be. You don't want to be the young woman who is genetically predisposed to overly produce four hydroxy estrogen simultaneously, have a poor comp, simultaneously, have a low GSTT one GSTP one, which was the thing, Quinones, and then have a poor mitochondrial superoxide dismutase or antioxidation to get rid of the oxidants
Speaker 2: (01:05:52) And add to that. You're in your forties or your 50s and you're making more EstroZen,
Speaker 3: (01:05:57) Which is a breast tissue because it's not in the liver anymore. The liver organ, at least it was designed for that type of metabolism. You're doing this in the breasts, you know, God forbid. Okay,
Speaker 2: (01:06:10) This is where the cancers can come in
Speaker 3: (01:06:13) This is weird and just why we have the the epidemiologic rise during that shift where the woman's body shifts from doing that grunt work in her liver, which was designed for it to doing that grunt work in such as breast tissue, cervical tissue, an ovarian tissue and so on and so forth. Which of course the human body, the female body does not express estrogen receptors, the same level for every cell type. You know, when you were, we lobby at nine years old and you could have gone outside, you know, flat chested like any other boy and you know, and then when, when men awe kits and the body changed your elbows and forms didn't change, it was suitable zone. Those are the zones that have more estrogen receptors.
Speaker 2: (01:07:03) And this is so this is how we can see like when you're looking at the phenotype, if we can go look like the the the hormone cascade just for people that are listening, it's going from producer owns and pregnenolone's into testosterone's which can sometimes go into DHT and which then go into the estrogen. Is thrown in your estradiol if you're pregnant when you're older you have more strokes coming in which are, that's coming from the the other top of testosterone isn't it? One on one and then it's means a lighter than these three path rates into the two hydroxy four hydroxy and 16 alpha hydroxy, two hydroxy being the good pathway and anti inflammatory. The four hydroxy being the dangerous one and this is where you've got a lot of PMs symptoms. If you've got your breast tissues like talking person on the end, this is probably too much information, but month like I've been on hormone replacement therapy and this is why I'm so excited about the hormone situation because obviously I've been put on a standard dose all the way through. It's DHT.
Speaker 3: (01:08:16) Now all of those can turn into, other than the DHT, the progesterones testosterone, even D H E A to the estrogens. The DHT will have gone past a pathway that it's not going to come back to estrogen. It can, by the way, reverse pathway affects certain things. They send signals back up the chain, the body. Oh yes, absolutely. The body is always looking for, you know, but I mean that's the whole way in which the hormone in which the pill, the contraceptive pill works, that when you give estrogens to the female body, the female body says, well, hold on. If I'm getting it from somewhere, I no longer need to make it internally because it's just showing up. We don't know where it's showing up from the body speaking to itself, which by the way is why when a lot of women, when they take the, they go on the pill, they find certain degrees of waking, loss of libido.
Speaker 3: (01:09:12) Why? Because when you took this premade us, of course, this is not for all women because it depends on the genetic cascade, but for some women you give them estrogen premade and the body goes, well, I know mama need to make estrogens. If you don't, if you no longer need to make estrogens, what were you making? Estradiol from testosterone. And so if I go give the female body just extra dial and she goes, well, I no longer need to make my own Estradal do you know what? Ellis is not going to be made very efficiently. You have to start strong. That's why so many young women, they go on the pill, they find not all. They find the libido tanks on them. They find that they gain weight, they find that their body goes into an estrogen dominance and of course they OBG or they go, Oh no, that's, don't worry.
Speaker 3: (01:09:58) No, that's just normal occurrence. Well, it's not a normal occurrence on this. You know what your pathway is. Are you shutting it down permanently? Like if you're on the pill box, these are, these are epigenetic feedback phenomena, right? Because remember when that extra dial enters the gene expression profile. So think of a think of a Rubik's cube, okay. And think of a Rubik's cube that has been mixed up. Okay. And it's, you know, it's been, it's been altered in whatever way, all of the combinations of the colors of that Rubik's cue in that time and that mode that's representative of the genes that are on and off at a given period of time. And so think of a particular Rubik's cube and that particular mix is what happens when there's estrogen izing going on. Okay. Now the Rubik's cube needs to go back to its pre solved mode where everything is nice and set, okay.
Speaker 3: (01:11:02) The time with which the gene expression, the time with which it can revert. This is a critical phenomena. It does revert, but it tends what the storylines, so for example, the gene expression, the pro inflammatory gene expression changes caused by the insulin insulin receptor complex, almost an identical phenomena. When insulin binds to the insulin receptor, it leaves the cytoplasmic membrane, goes into the nucleus, just like the AR testosterone, ER estrogen receptor and causes gene expression, the insulin insulin receptor motif. The gene expression that it causes is very pro inflammatory, very proinflammatory. Now the body can return to its non-interest inflammatory status within hours to days for the estrogens and the hormone cycle. It takes longer.
Speaker 2: (01:12:06) So you can this will be affecting woman's fertility. I mean, I've had fertility issues and I was ill from the age of 13 because I had issues. So they put me on the pill to mask these issues. Now what I'm expecting to see in my reports when they come back, and I don't know that I have a dominance of four hydroxy because I've had fibroids and so on and infertility and, and all of these sort of concomitant sort of problems. Now I just want to go in a little bit deeper into this. What is your take then? Is it possible to have hormone replacement therapy? Because obviously there are benefits to having these hormones in our body. The aging, can I, will I be able to, you know, and not just me, but will I be able to tweak it so that I can get the right amounts on the right days of the produced around the insurgence and the DHI and be able to do that safely without causing cancers and so on.
Speaker 3: (01:13:07) So it's a brilliant question. Now we've must answer that question is, and so let me just say this, and this is not just to be a blanket disclaimer. I am absolutely emphasizing being on a birth control, whether it's a pill or not being on hormone replacement, BHRT or versions of it. Not only is it appropriate in certain separate circumstances, it's lifesaving. It's life transformative in a positive way. In many circumstances, we were by no means saying, or even trying to hint that it should, that women, young women meant menopausal, but should be deprived of this by God. No first to begin with, despite any evidence of the O the other. That's a young woman's body. She makes the decision what's happening to her body. So no two ways. We're not tenting of that. What we're saying is everyone and the scientific literature, we understand that the outcomes of these things, the outcomes of a hundred young woman going on the same birth control pill, a hundred young, middle aged woman going and home and replacement, we absolutely know that there are differential outcomes visiting risks for certain deleterious outcomes, be the strokes on the pill, be the country effects or others on hormone replacement.
Speaker 3: (01:14:25) We know this happens. So what we're trying to say is do we just leave it as a statistic? Do we just say there's a 10% risk increase? Or do we say, look, you fall in the bucket where we can really tease out, are you specifically the person that is at risk or conversely beautifully, you're not the person that is at risk. So if you do choose to be in BHRT, you can do so now without necessarily that ghostly whisper, a fear that many young women have even when they choose to go. So it works both ways. Now. Now to answer your question, when you understand that these hormones are causing gene expression changes and these gene expression changes are what bolters cell behavior to any number of outcomes, we need to stop looking at hormone replacement. If we're going to do it intelligently, we've got to start to understand that the human body is a cicadas Ian creature.
Speaker 3: (01:15:29) Yeah, we are. We are circadian within our 24 hours. We have circadian within monthly. It's why ancient wisdom talks about the moon cycles and so forth. There's actually wisdom in these things that the human body is a sick Cajun creature. Even the foods we eat, the different seasons. Often when you look really carefully, they, they and the people who were indigenous to that religion, it's speaks to certain nutrients that the body needs more at certain times versus other times. It's one of the reasons when we coach people, when we talk to people about taking micronutrients, we are by no means a four. In fact, we are against the one-ton, you know, 50 million things. If micronutrients every morning at 7:00 AM gobble, gobble, gobble. Because that's not how the human body was designed. You know, even if I told you you needed these 15 ingredients at these different concentrations within 24 hours that you need your body needs, that it doesn't mean that I can give you the 15 things all at once at 7:00 AM no, these nutrients, the body, because neutrals do what they get into the cells.
Speaker 3: (01:16:42) They act as building blocks, but they also act to change gene expression. And again, I want you to to, to focus on the fact coming back to the hormones that these hormones are causing gene expression changes. So the first thing we have to do is we need to become better acquainted with what are the healthy changes that hormone replacement is accomplishing. Not just what is healthy, but when is it healthy and the amplitude of the changes. All three things are different, but yet correlated the what, the when, and the how much of the change. Okay? Now secondly, we have to understand that when we take hormones as part of an anti aging or or rejuvenating or simply actually therapeutic, forget auntie, just simply therapeutic. For this, for this menopausal young woman to be able to sleep, for heaven's sakes, and to be able to know these are things you can't tell this young woman, she shouldn't try a healthy BHRT protocol, but when did we realize what the home ones are doing?
Speaker 3: (01:17:53) Think about it. Are we supporting the mitochondria? Are we changing gene expression causing the cells to behave differently? But we've paid no attention to other mitochondria. The energy power plants keeping up with the changes that we're bringing about because of the gene expression, because of the hormone replacement. Are we doing that? Are we are we accomplishing based on nutrient protocol that which was better suited for these changes? So the, that's the long lens. The short answer is this. Therefore most certainly can. We come to a genomic to a hormone replacement protocol, but we need to look at the individuality. You see, quick granularity. A woman converts her pregnant alone into her androgens via the gene sub 1781 CYP 17 alpha one. This gene and its associated enzyme comes in a faster version and a slow version. Slow here is not bad. Slow is actually desirable.
Speaker 3: (01:19:01) It's the beneficial version. So in other words, by comparison to the fast version of the enzyme, the slow version of pregnant loaned to androgen is universally considered all things equal, healthier. No, just that one. This one piece of information a young woman has the fast sub 1781 a young woman has the slow sub 1781 I choose to put them on hormone replacement. She chooses to go home with a bracelet with pregnant alone progesterone. But by giving these two women the same progesterone dose, the potential that is brought about in the young woman who had the fast sub 1781 is more than the Andrew divinization potential than the young woman that had the slows, etc. And then of course I made my androgens, but then of course my sip 19 a one aromatase is going to take that to Stastrom and converted into extra dialogue or that understand beyond and converted into a strong, and by the way, the aromatase, 1981 comes in a faster medium and a slow version.
Speaker 3: (01:20:10) Did I know which version this young woman has? So should she be on a protocol that is progesterone to SaaStr and the estrogen is she was, she had the fast 17 I'm fascinating. A woman that has a fuss sip 1981 and the fast sub 1781 and this put on a triad hormone replacement. She's going to be a young woman that quite likely we are all over estrogen [inaudible] because everything in that cascade, the progesterones are going to androgens. The androgens are going to estrogens, the estrogens. We're giving our estrogen problems, God forbid, and there will be a disaster for that. When a woman says she would be at risk for both, this is what we've clearly shown and repeatedly shown in the data at least I can't tell you how many young women fall into the buckets that they were four hydroxy dominant with poor content or poor detox and they should.
Speaker 3: (01:21:19) Again, we're talking about we see thousands of patients, not tens or hundreds, thousands. And I can't tell you how many young woman, if that category came to the clinic thinking they had Lyme disease because it's a phenomena and it's a problem here in South Ontario, Northeast America. Why? Because four hydroxy estrogen and Quinones cause the same neuro inflammatory effects as newer Berlioz's you don't, I just had to ask them one question and they were convinced they had chronic Lyme disease and by the way, the tests were coming back negative, are you for Lyme testing at the most sensitive levels. And I said, have you been pregnant in the last six years that you taught? You had lying? And then the young woman said, yes. And I said, did you notice that while you were pregnant, your symptoms went away? And her eyes opened up and she began to cry and she goes, [inaudible], I actually told my husband, I wish I could just stay pregnant because when I'm pregnant I get a relief from all of my symptoms.
Speaker 3: (01:22:21) And then I had to point out to her, when you're pregnant, you as trial dominance and your body isn't making the four hydroxy estrogen, what are you getting when you're pregnant? Is you getting a relief from extra toxicity if you had Lyme disease, Lyme disease, this doesn't take a holiday during pregnancy. Right? And so the estrogen dominance and estrogen toxicity, I was a two different, two different, absolutely. A woman can be estrogen dominant and be perfectly nontoxic. She, you know, she, she has a certain physiology that's consistent with her estrogen dominance. She lives her life perfectly healthy because when she makes those estrogens maybe a bit more, you know, body type, but she's breaking them down efficiently. She's methylating the two hydroxy efficiently and a little bit of four hydroxy. She's detoxifying the GSTs and the soup and she's as healthy as can we being all things equal her how her diet or lifestyle environment.
Speaker 3: (01:23:26) So you first should determine what we call the androgen estrogen balance. So where are you on the, on on the spectrum from androgen dominance to estrogen dominance? Rubin, this is relevant to men and women. Okay. So where are you then off to that you go, depending particularly for the woman, depending on your estrogen dominance or not. Where are you with extra toxicity? See how many young woman Lisa, they were extra toxic, extra toxic, meaning they, they had the predisposition, there's sip one B, one surgical P for 51 B one which is the enzyme pathway to go to the full Hydrox agent that was dominant in them. They may or may not have had the low comp and other features. They will extra toxic, but they will, I'm sure dominant. Then we go. So that as a, as a teenager, these young women, they were more athletic, leaner. They did have some irregularities with their menstrual cycle. Mind you often times, but they were lean or they were able to put on, you know, not very, not much wisdom development, leaner cut, muscle strain and so on. And so they were Andrew dominance.
Speaker 3: (01:24:46) But then because of wanting to normalize their menstrual cycles, sometimes they get, now during this period of time they were underdominance blessing, which was come a flashing, the extra toxicity. Now you put this young woman and you go and you give her premade estrogen, which her body had not been doing in an almost self preserve in this, in this beautiful, miraculous way in which things tend to occur in the right combinations. But now you go there for estrogens, what have you done? You have literally pulled the Komodo open and exposed her extra toxicity and then all the things that you start seeing happening. And by the way, we've had ideal thanks to brilliant young scientists, dr Dan Turner and his mentor before him and the Walsh at the red bull high-performance division. So of course you certainly know, but the red bull, high performance athletes, we, Dr. Turner and I, we have screened many of the most elite Redbull high performance athletes in a, in a, an amazing program, but that the chairman has put together, including the genetics and the genomics that we do.
Speaker 3: (01:26:06) And along the way we met these, you know, goober, athletic young movement that works so high-performing, but at a certain point, you know, early twenties for other personal reasons, stuff went on the pill and all hell broke loose in terms of health body weight metrics and you know, per per performance that is only to very classically observe that she was the very fact that she was such a really good triathlon. Try athletic young woman per the body type was, she was a very unsure Dominic JIA woman. She was antra dominant but didn't realize she was extra toxic and that extra toxicity only showed its ugly head once she went on the birth control pill. Wow.
Speaker 2: (01:26:52) And then does the sporting performance change? Do they get more hip FLIR brace development and new light? You know,
Speaker 3: (01:27:03) I mean I'm somewhat embarrassed by the degree of accuracy. If I see a young woman's genomic profile without ever having seen them, I could actually predict body type. I can predict proclivity to Southern lights. These are not by the, these are not Lucy goosey. This is real post inflammation, vascular events, propensity for adipose tissue development. And that position, they're all driven to a large degree
Speaker 2: (01:27:33) Awesome pathway. And this is where it's so frustrating, you know, when you're dealing with we, you know, we coach 700 athletes and we've got a lot of women who are athletes and who are striving with the weight despite perfect diet, what you would consider a very good diet, exercising crazily. And then they, they, they still putting on weight. They still got cellulite, they're still got, and they're like, what do I need to do? Why don't I look like that girl down the road? Who's exercise one iota? Like, you know, Elle McPherson? What is the difference? You know, it's very, there's a really
Speaker 3: (01:28:10) Personal things that, that can really needle away, can really erode away at yourself. Confidence. Not because of not being body encompassing and being proud of yourself. No, that's not the point here. The point is to the degree of what you, a young woman or young man thinks they're putting in and they're not seeing what they perceive to be the outcome, you know, they begin to go,
Speaker 3: (01:28:35) Why am I doing it for right? And so to help them a have that epiphany, the epiphany moment it says, by the way, when I asked a young woman and I say, look, have you started noticing, well do you notice per your Pernod looking at their profile? So they're like, why are you asking me this? When I say, have you noticed the three to five days prior to your menstrual cycle, you really get a bit more breast tenderness and you know, nipple tenderness. Yes. So those three to five days prior to menstruation are the days that your body is particularly to the degree of your, the, the, the hydroxy, the four hydroxy two hydroxy, that's when those things are accumulating in the body. And if you happen to be more four hydroxy dominant, you're going to show profoundly more signs of inflammation. And of course as you get closer and closer to that pre perimenopause period when you become more estrogen dominant, and hence the four hydroxyl Strohn is showing up in the breast to Seymour and hence the symptomology, right?
Speaker 3: (01:29:36) So once you can show these young woman that thought was that they just fought, were, you know, just a narrow personal, crazy perception, they just never could understand it. And you join the dots for them. What you've done here, Lisa, is you've empowered them and it's not fatalistic. And then brings to the last point to the degree that you see the pathway is to the degree that you might then often, not always, I want to be clear there, they're still phones. You know, when I teach Lisa, the first slide that I put up says humility have to have the humility that by no means do we understand everything far from it far from it. But should that leave us feeling and capable to act? No. Because of the things that we do know. And as we're continuing this, this has been the way that any type of health and medicine is practiced.
Speaker 3: (01:30:33) You practice what you know to the best of your ability and the more you understand, you bring it in without choking on it. You bring it in bit by bit until you find that happy place where your body and, and the other thing, Lisa, is once you understand these gene expression changes, keep in mind the diet, the lifestyle that was potentially the work for those things that were potentially optimal few in your 20s you might often the not copies sitting in your forties going, well that's what worked for me in my twenties well the way in which your genomic manual was being used in the 20s is not the same. It's the same genomic millennial, but it's not being used in the same way 20 years later or 25 years later.
Speaker 2: (01:31:22) Oh this is just absolutely mind. Like talk to me. So I could honestly, I'd love to just sit for days like this, learning from you.
Speaker 3: (01:31:33) I've, I learned, I learned more honestly and I don't, I'm not just saying that because these are the conversations that you know, as you digest these things and this is what's going to happen, Lisa, God willing when you and you will, we will do your profile together. You are the N of one, right? So when you learn about these things, what happens is you, the person who then starts to sit in soup a minute, hold on, is this related to this is this symptomology, is this? And that's where the data comes from. That's the only that cause no one collects N of one data points. In fact, it's the variant of a meta analysis. It's the antithesis of that analysis. But data is at the end of one. That's where your data is out, you know. So for example, you know, this is a coolant and maybe as we wrap up with this I know ask individuals, I say, you know, do you happen to be one of those individuals?
Speaker 3: (01:32:32) And when you get an insect by just, just a regular regular insect, like are you the person for whom that insect bite stays flared up? You know, it, she and ERC's some much longer than the average person as we know, some of us that have. And if you say yes, it's an awesome predictor that your methylation cycle is suboptimal. Oh wow. And not just that. It is almost always associated with the suboptimal SHMT one. And MTR suing hydroxy methyltransferase and methionine synthase. Those two genes when suboptimal in the methylation cascade is extremely closely correlated by asking a completely benign, completely mundane question, what insect bites you would be amazed by the acuity of the association. Because the inset back inflammation we said very early in the Columbus, inflammation is inflammation. It doesn't matter what initiates the inflammation. If you are unable to douse the fire of your inflammation, whatever caused it, be repetitive joint injury, be it surgery, be it bacteria, infection, viral infection, toxic inflammation, your methylation isn't working properly.
Speaker 2: (01:33:50) Wow. So these, Oh man, these insights have just absolutely this, this is gonna change the entire one. I'm hoping it will. The entire medical model, you know, w drugs that we're taking, the hormone stuff that were taking [inaudible], I mean T S Wiley and the cyclic nature of the hormones. Going back to the hormones. I'm in the middle of her book at the moment and the whole cycle. And joining the dots. And then, you know, we, we do also epi epigenetics, which is again, another important piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 3: (01:34:25) Hugely important, hugely important. Lisa in New Zealand. What's the first new one for fatiguing, baby teething and, and fevers. What's the first drug? What's the first do you guys use baby Panadol baby Tylenol?
Speaker 2: (01:34:40) Yeah, Panadol. Panadol I think. Yup.
Speaker 3: (01:34:43) So in, in North America more so. It's acetaminophen. BBC. You Tylenol. Okay. So here's a drug, Lisa, to this point, when you talk about honestly changing a mindset, so if you take as human beings, literally the first and most used drug in the human population is often a set of manifests from an Crawler is acetaminophen Tylenol is that pain? Is that analgesic thick? Antipyretic that we use from the earliest from BBT, they and fevers vaccination posts factors into adulthood. Okay, fair enough. Acetaminophen, what it is metabolized by sip to E one to Edward, one is converted into a noxious, it's in the same family as the Quinones, not Q. So acetaminophen, which is the analgesic when it is first metabolized from a to B by cytochrome P four 50 to Edward, one to Epsilon one gets converted into a potent liver toxin, not Q. Q remove from the body via GSTT one.
Speaker 3: (01:36:02) Now, if he knew that you had the fast sip to E1 and the deleted GSTT one, do you really think you one Tylenol is your go to medication from the time you were four months old onto do you just just stop? One thing that one thing that when we open our medicine cabinets in developed countries or in any country, you open that cabinet, everyone's giving their children. Again, I am not saying don't treat a fever. I'm by no means say don't use Tylenol if you're in pain and it happens to be what's appropriate for you. But I am saying, can you imagine? We said we're not more intelligent about these things. Ibuprofen does not go through that pathway. So if you have this potential combo, consider using ibuprofen as your pain killer, not acetaminophen and so on and so forth. So these are all parts of the same puzzle. What is the puzzle? The human genome, what is the solution? Intelligent, non superficial, meaningful reading of the manual. That's what has to happen. That's what we've committed our lives to. And that's what I hope God willing to leave as my legacy.
Speaker 2: (01:37:24) You're definitely doing that Dr. Mansoor I'm just a comic. So excited for that. What this will bring in the future, the suffering that this is gonna save the the people's lives. This is going to say and you know, I'm, as I'm as passionate and my way about this as well now and I'm, I'm going to be a part of this. I'm bringing this out to the world. So I'm super excited. We're going to try to get dr mentor those listening. We're trying to bring dr mentor down later on this year to New Zealand. My big goal, I've got to go and work out how the heck we make this happen. But you know, with oil there's a way,
Speaker 3: (01:38:01) If you, if you invite me, I'll, you know, just it just, it's just I'm, I'm, I'm beyond honored. I'm, I'm tickled pink. I will find my way down there and, and to whomever would want to listen and, and just, you know, we're just, we're trying to create something that is based on good knowledge that is created on by flow of information and by flow energy. Just people that want to make a change and not, not make a change because, you know, there's sometimes we change just for change sake. No, we want to make a change where it matters and, and empower people and this is where it comes to. It ultimately comes down to empowerment. It comes down to your energy leases. Just awesome. It's such an honor speaking with you. Please. Whenever, if ever you need something from me or you feel like there's something else that I might be able to help with, it would be my single on her to help you.
Speaker 2: (01:38:53) Oh, documents and what you just absolute gold. I can see like your passion comes through in your words and the abs. Talk to Sanjay, one of your colleagues that you have on your team and he just says, Dr. Mansoor Does not have any hobbies. This is his life. He is timesing the world and I totally get this guy and you have a, a massive vision and I can see that vision and I can see that this is going to help so, so many people. So thank you so much for your time today. Document or it's just been
Speaker 3: (01:39:26) Absolute honor and to, to all of the, what do we call New Zealand is the Kiwi. There we go. So to all of the Kiwis and beyond the Kiwis, I have actually a different story, a different time. I have a, and I'm not saying this to be a locating or to be in, you know, self engendering to your community. I have a particular love. Someone that is exceedingly dear to me is from New Zealand and as a whole, it's that this love the people there. You got your governance there. It's just a different modality. And so if I ever come down though, if I have the honor to come in September, October, September, I think
Speaker 2: (01:40:02) Maybe he's more, we're hoping for September. That's what we're aiming for. So I'd be the one that would be grinning from ear to ear to mid. So thank you so much for your time. I know you've been because Austin and you're still stuck on here for an hour. This is, I'm sorry my apologies. Fucking carried on too much.
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Speaker 1: (01:41:13) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
01 Feb 2018
Ep 54: Rose Byass - Ultramarathon runner, Ultra triathlete tells her inspiring story
00:49:08
Rose Byass suffered a mental breakdown and ended up hospitalised and at rock bottom but inside she had a strong will to survive and to get back up again, a strong desire to climb back out of the morass and after over a decade in the army and having faced many of lifes typical problems she the resilience to get back up.
A big part of her recovery journey was when she took up running. At first just short distances but within a very short period of time she started tackling one ultramarathon after the other. Getting mentally stronger alongside getting physically stronger and fitter.
She is a strong advocate for the power of sport to help people overcome depression and mental health issues.
Her next challenge is to compete in Florida in the Triple Ironman.
We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.
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The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Optimising Health and Nutrition Through Diet and Lifestyle Dr. Mikki Williden
01:09:12
Our idea of a healthy lifestyle consists of farm-fresh produce, vegetable-rich diets, and regular exercise. But good nutrition goes beyond the diet and workout programs influencers show on social media.
As people we all struggle with different ailments and have different genetic makeups, it is essential to practice critical thinking before jumping onto the latest diet trends. Attractive as their promises may appear, what might be right for one person may not be right for you.
In this episode, Dr Mikki Williden shares the importance of having the right balance with regard to nutrition and delves into common misconceptions about diet and lifestyle. Dr Mikki details the strategies to optimise your health, especially during these trying times. Nutrition isn’t just about limiting calories but more about eating the right foods.
If you are looking to start your journey to a healthier you or if you want to learn more about the science of nutrition, this episode is for you!
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Learn more about nutrition and the importance of proteins in your diet.
Learn to think critically rather than just jumping on the next popular bandwagon
Discover strategies for optimising your health, especially during the pandemic.
Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up
For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go tohttps://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.
Customised Online Coaching for Runners
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
Anyone in the nutrition space can call themselves a nutritionist even without experience.
Mikki noticed that most people with a high comprehension of nutrition do not necessarily have degrees in nutrition.
Critical thinkers tend to have a high capacity for understanding how nutrition works.
There are limitations for those studying nutrition through university programs. Universities tend to teach students an established way of analysing problems.
[07:08] Nutrition in the Field of Medicine
Most general practitioners do not have in-depth knowledge about nutrition, which has given them a bad reputation at times.
The study of nutrition can range from diet to nutrient medication and even to gene interactions. General Practitioners may not know more specialized information about nutrition.
According to Mikki, we may have grown up thinking that our doctor’s decisions are absolute. You are always free to take ownership of your health.
Mikki recommends Lara Briden’s book,Hormone Repair Manual. Learn more about this by tuning in to the full episode.
[13:57] Proteins: A Double-Edged Sword
Amino acids, which build up proteins, act as signalling molecules to turn on the mTOR pathway.
The mTOR pathway regulates growth, particularly cell proliferation, in animals and humans.
The mTOR pathway is vital to human growth and metabolism, but too little or too much activity can be detrimental.
Long-term continuous activity in the mTOR pathway drives cancer cell proliferation and metabolism.
[20:05] The Scary Thing About Cancer
The terrifying fact about cancer is that it can affect anyone.
Cancers can target different areas of the body, which require specific treatments and protocols.
Early detection and diagnosis of cancer will give us the chance to fight back.
However, different cancer tests also vary in sensitivity levels. Some are more sensitive than others.
[23:06] Why Proteins?
Keeping your blood sugar in check is a priority, especially for individuals with metabolic dysregulation.
If you practice a low protein diet, your body will naturally crave more carbohydrates.
To prevent unnecessary intake of carbohydrates, keeping a balanced high-protein diet will be a good step.
[25:56] Should You Fast?
For individuals at the heavier side of the weight spectrum, fasting can help with their therapy.
People on the leaner side of the spectrum, on the other hand, should refrain from prolonged fasting. It may result in loss of muscle mass.
Exercise and fasting provide ‘good stress,’ which can upregulate the body's antioxidant system, anti-inflammatory systems, and NPK signalling pathways.
However, too much stress can break down the body. Always remember to do both in moderation.
The body needs a period of recovery and feeding to reap the benefits of exercise and fasting.
[32:32] Considerations for Fasting
According to Prof Layman and Dr Phillips, two solid inputs of proteins help stimulate muscle protein synthesis a day.
Teenagers and young adults require around 15-20 grams to maximize muscle protein synthesis. Meanwhile, middle-aged to older individuals need 40 grams of protein for optimal muscle protein synthesis.
Extreme fasting can pose a high risk of accelerating muscle breakdown. Getting the right amount of protein for muscle synthesis is important because our bone health also gradually degenerates as we age.
Falls and trips are one of the top causes of mortality in older adults. Our foot and ankle muscles should be strong enough in and around to prevent such accidents.
[36:30] Checking Your Bone-Building Markers
Fasting or insufficient food intake after exercise is also detrimental to bone health.
The body’s bone-building markers are low during the period after exercise.
Factoring in your day’s program for your carbohydrate intake can be beneficial.
Bone marker retention improves with high omega-three intake.
[39:57] The Truth About Oils
Vegetable oils are usually dubbed as “bad” oils since they upregulate inflammation in the body. Processing may heat these oils and destabilize them, which leads to oxidation of the oils.
Oxidized oils are atherogenic. This means that they promote the thickening or hardening of arteries due to fatty plaque build-up.
Placing oils in plastic containers, such as in commercially available oils, can also cause plasticizers to seep into the oil.
A high seed oil diet also means a lot of processed or refined carbohydrate content from the preservatives.
[44:42] Strategies for a Healthy Nutrition
Going organic is a privilege. Depending on a person’s access and budget, there will be times when commercial, processed food will be the only way to go. In cases like this, keeping things in moderation will be key.
Personality has an impact on becoming successful. Success follows if you live a balanced lifestyle.
Becoming self-aware is a good step towards a more balanced, healthy life.
[55:12] Optimising Health During the Pandemic
Mikki laments the lack of discussion about health in the context of COVID-19.
Advocacy plays a heavy role in policymaking during this pandemic.
Resiliency and protection from the virus still depend on how fundamentally healthy you are.
COVID-19 is seen from an epidemiological or immunological point of view. However, the pandemic also has influenced social and cognitive aspects of life.
People should exercise critical thinking instead of blindly following mandates.
7 Powerful Quotes
[06:30] (On nutrition in the academy) ‘It's like having done study to work out that you have a super good brain. You are able and capable of doing it, but it has taught you to think in one particular way.’
[20:20] ‘It feels like you get ahead in terms of different treatments, different protocols sort of coming out. But then, every cancer is so different, like a completely different disease.’
[24:15] ‘This is what the research tells us: that you don't have to use research, you just sort of intuitively know if you're propping up your energy because you're trying to rescue your blood sugars on an hour by hour basis. The thing that your body wants is carbs. And it's actually the last thing that it needs.’
[27:24] On repeated and heavy stress on the body: ‘Coming from an ultramarathon background — for health, for toughness, for the sporting endeavor, for the goals and the bloody adventure — yes. For health? No.’
[30:01] ‘If you think about energy expenditure and energy input, if you've got a high energy expenditure, it likes a high energy input to keep those those metabolic pathways nourished, if you like. But then, you move into a phase of low energy output and low energy intake, and again, your body quite likes it, too. It’s good to give your body a bit of a rest.’
[41:15] Whenever you put fat in plastic, it just means that the plasticizers from the container can seep into that food source. That's why I recommend that anyone with any sort of leftovers or whatever, if it's a steamer that they're using a plastic container, put down some baking paper, put something down so there’s a barrier between the plastic [and food].’
[48:33] ‘Mum would not be here if I hadn't, and we as a family, hadn't sacrificed one hell of a lot to get back and on a day to day basis, ongoing. That's what you do for your loved one. For me, it's important to get the people to understand this is a journey.’
About Dr Mikki
Dr Mikki Williden, PhD,is a registered nutritionist, who has been helping individuals achieve peak health and performance since 2006. She graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Human Nutrition. She also has a Bachelor of Physical Education from the University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.
In 2003, Mikki donned First Class Honors in her Master in Science degree, where she focused on the development of childhood obesity prevention. By 2011, she obtained a PhD degree with her thesis in health and productivity.
Mikki has a regular column in Bite Magazine, which is part of the New Zealand Herald. She also co-hosts a weekly endurance sports podcast called “Fitter Radio.” Through her podcast, she works together with notable figures in New Zealand and helps them achieve their nutrition-related goals.
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Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me onFacebook,Twitter,InstagramandYouTube.
Ep44: The importance of a daily Breath focused practice
00:21:49
In this episode Lisa discusses proper breathing technique and why it is so very important for health.
The benefit list is long. But most people in our modern society don’t breath properly i.e. diaphragmatic breathing for a number of reasons.
The benefits Proper breathing helps with: relieving anxiety, stress and tension can stop panic attacks Helps our psychological state and helps us to control our emotions and change our emotions. Helps detoxify the body. Helps to optimally oxygenate the body and all its organs which helps with healing, longevity and health in general. Leads to more inner peace, focus and mind and thought control. Helps athletes to optimal performance in their sports. strengthens the important diaphragm muscle which tends to weaken as we get older. Breathing only in the upper chest stimulates the panic receptors, breathing into the stomach activates the calming receptors there and activates the parasympathetic nervous system. Using the diaphragm muscle helps massage and move the inner organs and helps with digestion and detoxification. Helps you control your anger, fear and anxiety to face more and bigger challenges without freezing or panicking. Can help lower the release of stress hormones cortisol and adrenaline in the bloody stream. Stop overuse of the upper chest muscles and intercostals (which happens when we just breath into the upper 1/3 of our lungs). This can lead to tight and shortened muscles in the neck, shoulders and chest. Deep diaphragmatic breathing helps us deal with pain and breath through it. When we stop breathing or hold our breath because we are in pain, it gets worse. Diaphragmatic breathing strengthens your lungs, it doesn’t increase lung capacity but makes them stronger and strengthens the primary breathing muscles.
We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info on Neil click here: ... see more (link to the about us page
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
EP:81 Sports Psychology and the Mindset of a Winner -
00:19:41
World Champion Motorcycle Racer Wayne Gardner has just released a brand new movie "Wayne" about his crazy life and reaching the pinnacle of Motorcycle Racing.
The film captures the life and career of the Aussie, who went from owning a $5 motorbike in Wollongong, Australia, to winning the 1987 500cc World Championship with wife Donna Forbes by his side.
I had the privilege of being invited to meet and have an interview with Wayne to discuss sports psychology and the importance of the mental game when it comes to winning in sport.
In this episode I share some of Waynes' and my own insights into this fascinating and underrated area of work and why every athlete should be focussing more on his or her mental game to get the edge over the competition.
We would like to thank our sponsors
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.
Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz
18 Jul 2024
Unlocking The Brain's Potential: Photobiomodulation Therapy With Liam Pingree
00:50:31
In this enlightening episode, we dive into the world of photobiomodulation (PBM) and its transformative effects on brain health with Liam Pingree, Co-Founder of Neuronic. We explore how light therapy is revolutionizing the treatment and management of neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injury (TBI), Parkinson's, concussion, stroke, Autism, ADHD and overall brain optimisation.
Learn about the cutting-edge research and innovative technologies that are making significant strides in enhancing brain function and quality of life.
Key Topics Covered:
Introduction to Photobiomodulation (PBM):
What is photobiomodulation?
How does PBM work in the brain?
Applications of PBM in Neurological Conditions:
Alzheimer's Disease
Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Parkinson's Disease
Concussion
Stroke
Brain Optimization and Cognitive Enhancement
Scientific Research and Evidence:
Overview of current research studies on PBM
Clinical trials and patient outcomes
Neuronic's Innovations:
Neuronic's PBM devices and technologies
How Neuronic is leading the way in brain health optimization
Subscribe: Don't miss out on future episodes! Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform and don't forget to subscribe on our youtube channel here: Lisa Tamati
Leave a Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. It helps us reach more people passionate about brain health.
Share: Share this episode with friends, family, and anyone interested in cutting-edge brain health technologies.
Thank you for tuning in to this episode with Liam Pingree. We hope you found it insightful and inspiring. Stay tuned for more episodes on groundbreaking health technologies and innovation.
BIO
Liam Pingree is an entrepreneur and Co-Founder of Neuronic, a pioneering company focused on optimizing brain capacity throughout all stages of life. Liam is a former Forbes Business Council member and has a background in international business and finance previously acquired when working on Wall Street in HSBC NY. As the co-founder of Neuronic, Liam oversees the marketing and sales focusing on getting the product out in the world.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
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with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
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No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Peptide Therapy and Caring for Our Cells with Dr William Seeds
01:01:18
We often associate illnesses and pains with old age. But our guest today reveals that the real cause of health problems is how you’ve lived your life. Accumulated amounts of stress can change our bodies down to the cellular level. Luckily, scientific discoveries such as peptide therapy can help our cells function better. Age is not the issue. If you take care of yourself, being older can mean being at the peak of your performance.
In this episode, Dr William Seeds joins us to discuss how our cells function and how epigenetic influences can harm our bodies. He shares how peptides and peptide therapy play a crucial role in keeping ourselves healthy and treating injuries and illnesses! As we age, our bodies slowly lose their ability to perform specific functions, including growth hormone production. But with the right intervention, including peptide therapy, a 100-year-old can produce just as many growth hormones as someone a quarter their age!
If you want to learn more about peptide therapy and how to age gracefully, then this episode is for you!
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Understand that taking care of our cells and helping them function properly is essential to living a healthier life.
Discover why diseases are not a function of age but how we have experienced life and accumulated negative influences on our cells.
Learn the importance of growth hormones and how peptides and peptide therapy can help with the neuroplasticity of our brains.
Resources
Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming apatron!
Pearson Chemistryby Drew Chan, Richard Hecker, Bob Hogendoorn, Kathryn Hiller, Louise Lennard, Mick Moylan, Pat O’Shea, Maria Porter, Patrick Sanders, Paul Waldron, Jim Sturgiss
For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go tohttps://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.
Customised Online Coaching for Runners
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful, third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
[05:29] William’s Background and His Father’s Death
William used to train with his father when he was a young athlete.
Unfortunately, he lost his father on the track right before his eyes. He could not do anything to save him.
His life changed drastically afterwards. As the eldest sibling, he had to take charge.
William questioned how someone could seem like they're in the best of health but die so early. This thought led him to learn more about biochemistry and molecular biology.
In the full episode, he shares the one book that jump-started his interest in biology and chemistry.
[09:15] Shifting from Business to Medical School
William shares that he was a business major, but he spent most of his college days researching and reading more about biochemistry.
He became so good that he started helping people with their biology classes.
When he graduated from business school, he knew that his path was in medicine. Along the way, he faced people telling him that he couldn't do it.
However, he found a way to enter medical school by taking accelerated classes during the summer. These classes let him qualify for the entrance exam.
People’s advice, even disbelief, can help us achieve the impossible. Listen to the full episode to learn more about William’s shift and how he even got early admission!
[16:59] The Value of Constant Learning
When William went into medical school, there were many things that didn't make sense to him. So he used to argue and get in trouble.
He observed that the cell is more important than we give it credit for. While it's good to know its components, it's more important to understand how we can use it to treat illnesses.
His work on nutrition and the cell built his orthopedic career and research on peptides. Eventually, he taught others about the application of peptides in their practices.
Learning is not about being smart; it’s about constantly working hard to gain and build knowledge.
You have the power to explore what interests you and build expert-level knowledge based on the research you can find online.
[25:32] What Are Peptides?
Peptides are signalling agents that help maintain cellular health.
There are many different names of peptides, depending on how and where they are made. They can be called hormones, enzymes, or more.
Some of the most significant scientific discoveries started with the study of peptides. For example, insulin is one of the major peptides discovered back in the 1920s.
Peptides may seem complicated, but you can make people understand them.
William encourages everyone to learn more about it to make better decisions for their health, but it is the job of empowered people to educate people.
[34:20] Peptide Therapy and Epigenetics
Our genetics are unchangeable, but epigenetic influences can change how our cells transcribe and translate our gene's instructions.
Epigenetic influences include things that affect us every day, like stress, aging, disease, and more.
The work that William does, including peptide therapy, is all about epigenetics.
Cells have their own intelligence. We just need to give them the ability to correct themselves.
For instance, we need to maintain cellular redox — the thermodynamics of the cell.
[37:02] What Happens When a Cell is Not Performing Well
When epigenetic influences harm the cells’ performance, they become senescent cells.
Our bodies are programmed to kill these unhealthy cells, but this doesn’t happen all the time.
Senescent cells are the key to aging and diseases.
When these cells establish themselves in the body, it is hard to get rid of them, especially since they can build up over time.
[41:48] Aging and Growth Hormones
As we age, the brain loses the capacity to release the same amount of growth hormone, which is the master regulator of our body.
By the age of 30, we experience a slow decline in how much growth hormone we can produce, which decreases even more with age.
However, you will never lose the capacity to create growth hormones.
What dictates this production are the events in your life that affect your body and whether you have a buildup of senescent cells.
Peptides and peptide therapy can help you regain the ability to release endogenous growth hormones based on your body’s demand.
[44:29] How to Increase Growth Hormones
There are over 100 types of growth hormones. Each one is released based on the body’s demand.
Cells can recognise if synthetic growth hormones do not match the demand, and this can be harmful.
One way we naturally release growth hormones is during sleep.
[48:22] The Value of Growth Hormones
Peptides can help not only with improving the increase of growth hormones but also with neuroplasticity.
Certain peptides have specific uses. For example, Ipamorelin allows the secretion of growth hormone within 20 minutes of usage. This is typically used before sleeping and upon waking.
Brain injuries tend to shut down more growth hormones. This goes to show how improving brain function involves many levels.
Senescent cells suppress the stem cells' ability to perform repairs and can convert stem cells to senescent stem cells.
Listen to the full episode to learn more about growth hormone pathways and how they improve function!
[53:07] Age is Not the Issue
Even if neural pathways have been damaged, the brain can build new ones.
Age is not an issue; older people can still produce new neural pathways.
There are a lot of aspects needed to create these pathways. It involves timing, planning, building momentum, and supplements.
The gut plays an important role in recovering from brain injuries since it makes a lot of neurotransmitters.
You also need to look at the cell membrane because you can lose certain phospholipids vital to conduction in axons and how neurons work.
[56:49] There is Hope
William’s goal is to help people have enough knowledge to know that they can prevent themselves from things like a traumatic brain injury.
Certain diseases take time to incubate, so you won’t even know you’re in its path until it’s too late.
We must take advantage of the knowledge that we can improve our cell’s functions: we can change a cell to be more protective, more efficient, and keep it that way.
We should aim to live our lives to the fullest capacity, no matter our age.
William shares that even though he is already in his 60s, his capacity is at its peak.
7 Powerful Quotes
[29:25] ‘If anybody tells you something is too complicated, you have to have a PhD to understand that, right away, you should call bullshit because it means [they] just can’t teach well.’
[29:48] 'We all have the same capability of understanding. So our job is to educate people of what they have out there and not to keep them thinking they can't learn this.'
[44:58] ‘The cell knows what to make when the body has the demand.’
[50:21] ‘Growth hormone has some tremendous downstream effects that are effective in so many ways, in helping people regain the ability to improve cellular metabolism in the brain.’
[57:32] ‘We can change a cell to be more protective, more efficient, and keep that cell.’
[57:41] ‘We’re not looking to live at 150 years of age… We’re looking to live every day of our lives at our fullest capacity.’
[58:13] ‘There is just so much that people deserve to know that they can be doing it, that they can change their lives no matter what state they’re in.’
About Dr William Seeds
Dr William Seedsis a board-certified orthopedic surgeon. For over 25 years, he has been a leading physician specialising in all aspects of sports medicine and total joint treatments. Dr Seeds is also the world's leading authority on peptide therapy, with training in advanced metabolic and nutritional medicine.
In his constant pursuit of medical research, he has published several research papers. Among his works is the first handbook on peptides written for practitioners, Peptide Protocols Volume One. He is the founder and president of the Seeds Scientific Research and Performance (SSRP), the training institute on cellular medicine and peptide therapy for medical practitioners.
Dr Seeds is also the Chief of Surgery and Orthopedic Residency Site Director for University Hospital, Conneaut and Geneva, Ohio. He has also been honoured at the NFL Hall of Fame for his medical services as a Professional Medical Consultant for the MLB, NHL, NBA, and NBC’s Dancing with the Stars.
Interested in Dr Seed’s work? Check out hiswebsite.
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Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about peptide therapy and how cells play a critical role in our lives.
Ultramarathons are not just for superheroes - Krista & Guy Alderdice
00:29:35
Everyday runners Krista and Guy share their ultramarathon experiences int his candid interview with Lisa.
This lovely couple from Vermont in the USA are the voices behind "Blue Collars Runners" a site and blog dedicated to sharing the stories of everyday people doing crazy ultramarathons.
Their mission is to entertain and inspire you by sharing the stories of everyday runners. People from all walks of life, with different backgrounds, challenges, abilities and dreams. Krista and Guy are so honored to tell these stories, of ordinary people doing extraordinary things, as they shine a light on the human spirit.
You may even find yourself wondering what you are truly capable of.
You can read their wonderful inspiring stories at:
Guy and Krista Alderdice live in the hills of Vermont with their two teenage sons, Justin and Jase.
Guy found his passion for running later in life, running his first marathon at age 35. Krista, having run in high school, reconnected to running after a serious horse accident.
Through their love of running, they've made many connections with folks just like them. Blue Collar Runners is a place to rejoice in the everyday runners. Whether you love to run on dirt, pavement, treadmill, beaches or mountains. If you are a streak runner, mile runner, 100 mile runner or somewhere in between.
We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:
For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com
For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.
Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...
Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"
Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information
ABOUT THE BOOK:
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:11) Hi everyone. Welcome back this week. I hope you are doing all fine in your bubbles, wherever you are in the world and staying safe this week. I have a very interesting interview with a couple of very experienced ultra marathon runners guy and Krista odor dice from Vermont in the USA and they are going to share a few of their stories and they're also writers and founders of the website, bluecollarruners.com where they share everyday running stories with, with the audience. Now they also write for outdoor running magazine and I've done the Vermont 100 a famous race in the United States. Oh, I think seven, eight, nine times. And it's a really, really interesting interview about what makes them tick and about why ultra marathoning isn't just for the super athletes of the world, but for everyday people. And I hope you enjoy the show. Before I hand you over to Krista and guy, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available. You can go to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com that's relentlessbook.lisatamati.com to grab your copy. It's available right around the world. It's available in paperback, on audio and Kindle and Amazon. You name it. It's a net version. So check that out. I hope you enjoy the book. If you do get it. And I would love a review if you've read it already. So without further ado, over to Krista & Guy Alderdice.
Speaker 2: (01:44) Well, hi everyone. Lisa here pushing the limits. Thank you once again for joining me on the show today. I've got a little treat for you. I've got some lovely, lovely, amazing runners with me all the way from USA. I've got Krista & Guy Alderdice. How are you guys doing? You guys are sitting in Vermont. Many Ultra runners will know about the Vermont 100, which is a really worldwide famous, you know, ultra Mo ultra marathon in the States. And you guys walk past your doorstep, guys, right? Yeah, we're a mile 80, 87 passes right by our driveway. Oh, you were right in the corner, right where it gets tough. It gets real tough.
Speaker 2: (02:32) Says it today. You guys at the listing, I wanted to introduce you to Krista & Guy. These dear friends of my dear friend Ben from Yulara who's really our key man in our company at running hot coaching and he is in Connecticut and he's introduced me to these lovely people. So they're going to share a little bit these stories today around ultra marathon running and Krista & Guy, I have a website which has blue collar runners. So just www.bluecollarruners.com isn't it goes which is telling the stories from everyday runners. Is that right? Yeah, we're just spotlighting the everyday runner who just kind of inspires us people all over the U S we've spotlighted. So yeah, says entered pretty cold. So I want to dive into the background and we've been talking before we started recording and I, and I'm getting a bit of background and we're gonna have to repeat a lot of it guys.
Speaker 2: (03:33) So you two are married, you've been together since your like high school sweethearts, is that right? Yes. Yeah, we had, we had our first date in 1991. Wow. And you've got two young boys, 15 and 17 years old. And you were finding it to a printer guy and what do you do Christopher, for a day to day job? Where are you at home or are you working? Yeah, I work for him. So kind of do the business side of it, the admin side, and then I'm helping with the writing. Oh, the hard stuff by the chef. Well, the real stuff is that it seems to be like in my household, I do all the, the, the public facing stuff and then behind me, Neil, Ben and my husband has the trying to pick up all the basics and actually do the hard yards. So so you guys are ultra marathon runners and you've been doing this now for a decade now and you super talented runners or how did you get him?
Speaker 2: (04:42) Well, actually Krista was much more accomplished. I mean, she was a, she was a great cross country runner back in high school and, and did real well. I on the other hand, was, was not a gifted runner by any means. I played, played basketball and did very short distances in my twenties and into my mid thirties didn't run. We're more than a couple of miles over 15 years. So yeah, no, not a gifted, no gifted background for us at all. But of course if you were, you had to go to spades. I crossed it. So you had see back in high school? Probably. that's, that's since gone away and now it's run long. Yeah. I was more of an endurance rider. So I did the a hundred mile and 50 mile races on horseback. Wow. And I would see all these crazy ultra runners at the Vermont 100 when I was riding it back in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2: (05:39) Just wondering what the heck are they doing? Like is this run simultaneously that the horse race and the the running race? Yes. It's like one of the only ones left that you are on the same course at the same time with ours in the runners. So it's pretty fascinating. Yeah, it's neat. Yeah. Huge background as an endurance horse rider. But what sort of changed that for you? I know you, you know, you had an event. Yeah. And 2015 I was badly kicked by a friend's horse, so it was a pretty bad shatter of my elbow shattered in about 10 places. So I had three surgeries and about a year. And I just needed to take a break from that side of my life and I was wondering, you know, what, what am I going to do? Like I need that kind of physical push. And luckily guy was in the midst of, you know, doing his ultra stuff, I had kind of dabbled a little bit. I had done a couple of 50 K's just more socially. Honestly just to kind of be in the community, but it was much happier on horseback. But once that was kind of shifted, then running really became kind of my, I love how you say, I just set up a couple of things.
Speaker 2: (07:03) They were not fast. I was just kind of getting around with friends. And as far as you know, our community, we have the Vermont 50 and the Vermont 100, like right in our backyard. So it was kind of a, what do you always call them?
Speaker 3: (07:18) Yeah, our, our town. We've also just said that this town is kind of an outlier because we're a switch, only about a thousand people in this town and, but there's the per capita ultra runners are pretty crazy because it's, you know, it's right in our backyard. All these big, big events,
Speaker 2: (07:32) Easy entry. It's kind of easy to get sucked in. Yeah. You sort of saw it happening in going past your doorstep literally everyday. So you sort of sucked into that world. And it's a beautiful part of America, isn't it? It's a beautiful place. It's gorgeous. It's quiet. It's a beautiful place to raise kids. And I think in, in our oldest son Justin's class, I would say out of the 20 parents, didn't we figure if Dean had done like the Vermont 50? I mean it's pretty, pretty fascinating. Like I think everybody is outdoors a lot. It's
Speaker 3: (08:11) Yeah, I mean you can, you can literally walk out, you know, you walk out of your back door and you're on dirt roads, trails. The amount of Scott is, is a mile two miles away. So there's a playground right outside of our door that we, you know, so we're really lucky.
Speaker 2: (08:24) You're very lucky. You were definitely very lucky. So I mean that's quite interesting. When you say like so many of the parents that you could saw with a ultra marathon runners, do you think, cause a lot of people think that ultra marathon running is only for the elite and only for the super gifted and the super tough. What do you, what do you say to that? What do you think about that?
Speaker 3: (08:47) Oh yeah. We, we know from experience that nothing could be further from the truth. Then the first year I ran my first 100 I ran it with two friends, lived in town,
Speaker 2: (08:56) A guy named Fred and a guy named Jim and myself. The three of us were, I mean, we had no special skills. We had, we weren't great planners and we all went out and tackle this a hundred mile run. You know, despite people telling us we were crazy and family members, you know, no one can be, most people never heard of it. You know, this wasn't even an event. So, but over the next few years, the three of us went out. We all, at one point, we all got to finish all of us. And so, and we just, it was just what I learned is, I mean, 90% of this I think is mental, you know, just that mental toughness. Yeah. And along the way isn't it? Yeah. so I know you said back in 2011 when you guys sort of started or you know, you got underway and that you did have no idea.
Speaker 2: (09:48) You would just, like you said, you turned up on the format socks and, and we had, we, our gear was, was I ran, I was running in just like 86 basic road shoes. I had a Socks from Walmart. I had no special foods. I mean I hadn't done any research and, but we just went out there and you know, my aid station to aid station and we just, what we've found over the years is we just, it really became about being outside and just, you know, seeing how far you could, you know, how far you can push yourself. And, and honestly, I think we, all of us pushed each other, you know, and it was just that social part of it was a big thing. I think I was starting to wind down and then Krista, you know, got into it and then I kind of rejuvenated me because some of my friends were moving on and doing other things. And so when Krista came in 2015 and then we kind of just, you know, if it started doing more, I know it is the famous just one more. That's right. That's right. So yeah, there's a lot of things always sound good on paper. You know, when you come up with these ideas on runs with friends and you're like, what did I agree to? And you know, I can do that. I definitely know that problem when you're reading something on a website.
Speaker 2: (11:20) I've had a few, I've had a few times where I opened my email and I've been, and I get an email saying, you know, thanks for signing up for this race. And I'm like, I didn't, I have no idea. Come to find out. Krista's signed us up for a race and I guess now I just get used to it. That's right. I hacked into his ultra sign up to how many things that you do? Oh, you running together? You know, hadn't you find it as a couple? Like I met with my husband, I can't, we did do runs together, but we don't run much anymore together because we're a different paces now. He's got better. I've also slowed down and got up, gotten older and been doing it for too long in the tooth, I think. And he w w we, we end up arguing.
Speaker 2: (12:16) How do you guys find that as a couple? I think, I think for us it's like really therapeutic. Like we figured a lot of things out in the runs, like whether it's, you know, things we talk about, about the kids, like any issues they're having or I don't know, I don't really know how to explain it, but it's a time that we can just be really free of anything. So like it just, everything comes out. Mmm. And, and literally like, like I said before, before the podcast, like we do everything together. So like I said, if anyone sees one, it's usually the other. And he's way faster than me. Yeah. There's, if we're doing any sort of speed work, like he'll just go ahead and then come back or any sort of like speed work, which we're not the greatest staff. He'll just kind of go, go a little bit ahead and I'll just, it gives me a push to try to keep up with them.
Speaker 2: (13:10) As far as, yeah. And then I think, and then when in terms of like race day, we're kind of both on the same page, is that we're, we're not really that worried about, you know, how great our time is. We're, we're, we're definitely finishers. You know, first we wanna we want to finish and, and know, we know we're never gonna be elite, you know, we're never going to be in that cream of the crop. I mean, some of the times these, these are the athletes put up or just they blow my mind. Unbelievable. So yeah, we're pretty happy being just kind of, you know, we just chug along and, you know, crank the miles out. So yeah. So that, so usually we just, you know, we run one of the hundred miles we ran the whole thing together. That was a special start and finish the whole thing together. Pretty magical. That was 2000. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all have to be on the same page as far as, you know, Asha or, yeah, yeah, yeah. Feeling good when well occasionally, you know, on a, on a, on a long run, in, in a, in a event, if one of us is feeling junky, the other one would say just go ahead. And, you know, cause I'm usually when you're feeling, you know, you feel junky, you want to be alone anyways. Yeah. You're a grumpy, horrible person.
Speaker 2: (14:29) I'm nauseous and I hear like a little rapper opening on like, Oh, I can't eat, eat. So just go ahead. Don't eat around me. But how many of the promote 100 if you've got a son, a hundred miler. So I've done three and I've done eight on horseback. So three on foot.
Speaker 3: (14:53) Yeah. And I, and I'm the CEO and this, let's see, I've, I ran in I ran nine of them and I've finished seven at a nine. Wow, that's amazing. And we always tell people it's such a family thing for us because yeah, since 2001, I think we've been to every single year except for, well, 2002, she had our our son, Justin Christie given birth a couple of weeks before. So we missed that year. Other than that, other than she was a slacker, slacker that year. But yeah, we've been, that we've been to and seen since our kids were babies. They've been to every single, because when they were babies, she was riding, I was crewing and so I'd be changing diapers and you know, strollers at aid stations and then now our kids and that's come full circle where the kids are crewing us. And now last year our oldest son ran the last like 13 or 14 miles in with Krista. Yeah. So we've seen it, you know, from little infants to now, you know, they're taller, taller than us.
Speaker 2: (15:59) So the future is bright. We want, we want to see some more. So now I want to talk to you, a rotting guy in the blue, calmer that we call a Rana's website and the stories that you tell and you write for ultra running magazine, which is a very prestigious ultra marathon running naked scene. What sort of stories do you tell guys? What, what's sort of you know, the background into that?
Speaker 3: (16:30) Yeah. So, so we always were fascinated. I mean, my whole life I've always been fascinated me reading memoirs and curious about people's stories. So this was kind of a natural thing for us. We've met a lot of nice people in town through the sport and in, in, in races. So we just said what we were out for a run about a year and a half ago and we just had this idea, you know, we've always called ourselves blue collar runners cause we're always just kinda like, did we always felt like we were just, you know, scraping by and getting through it. So yeah, he just started. We just say, well, and what we've found is with law as we've, we said, well, every once a month we just interview, we interview someone. And then we, we write their story and ultra running magazine and their online column. Well, we just found that people that are doing these crazy, you know, feats and challenges generally, there's a really good story. You know, why they're doing it. And we've, we've talked to people that have been through addiction of I tried to commit suicide too. Health issues to family issues to, and you realize some of the people that we knew in town pretty well once we interviewed and we found out things we never knew. And so we just, we bunked you've just met really cool people and now it's, we have this neat platform to tell their story, you know, tell it does again, average runners,
Speaker 2: (17:50) You know, have jobs and have families or, and, and running is kind of a side thing. It's not the way they make their living, but they're doing just incredible things. And then any, they all have really big hearts like theirs. You know what I mean? There, there's just this neat push to do something big. Mmm. But they're just, yeah. I mean, this is, this is a couple of themes running through those stories by the sounds of it. And this is my experience too in dealing with lots of, you know, ultra runner, crazy people and myself as well. I know that, you know, running, saved my life. Literally. I, you know, I'm going through some terrible things and, and again, and again that's picked me up and given me my life back and my confidence back and my self esteem and channeled my Oh, I've got a bit of an addictive personality and if I don't do, if it didn't do running or working, I think stupid. So I it is a way of channeling my energies and so on. And I think a lot of people can, can understand that who are ultra marathon miners said it and it helps you deal with issues and helps you rebuild your life. And, and these are sort of byproducts that, that people outside of the running or the ultra running community especially, but even the running community don't, don't see as a benefit of running, but it's actually a mental health based mental health thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2: (19:23) Yeah. And that seems to be a same that that does run, you know, you do get some deep stories when you're interact with people and some people have been through some terrible things and running his saved them and help them out of the muck, you know? Yeah, a lot of them weren't runners per se, you know, they didn't grow up, you know, running cross country or they didn't grow up. Having someone that they ran with it, it's how running kind of came into their life at that perfect time and they really needed to lean on it. So you know, and I know for me personally, it came back, you know, after I got injured and I, I did, I leaned on it big time and outside and to, you know, feel your heart pounding and feel that wind in your hair.
Speaker 2: (20:10) And you know, it doesn't matter how far you go or how long you go or how fast you go, but it's just there and I feel lucky for that. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like they've primal, there's a primal instinct that is missing in our everyday lives, mostly now in our modern day world. And it answers a lot of those biological and instinctive and ancestral sort of needs for us. So that need to push our bodies to, to survive and the in the outdoors and to be able to overcome and to actually, you know, like expel all this energy that we have which is sometimes a negative and or an anger or a grief or, you know, I I often come back from long runs, especially where you've given your role or rices and you just, you, you, you, it's so fantastic. The pain that you go through physically sometimes is, is it's a mean tool release part of the draw card and it's not what like I don't think you and I would sit here and say we like pain cause a lot of people, you're a masochist or something.
Speaker 2: (21:31) Not at all. I don't like, I do see the benefits on pushing through pain or through suffering or had moments in a, in an event or training because it does teach you so, so much about who the heck you are. And that's something that my listeners hear me preach a lot, but I think that is, that is a very true thing. And he'd agree with it. Yeah. More. And when we always talk about it, we'll be doing something, whether it's work related or life w we, we always say we lean back on those ultra lessons that we learn because we're just, you just some of the things you're doing out there, you does, it converts over to, to real life situations and mental toughness kind of, you know, pushing through hard times. Yeah. And then the metaphors are there all over the place, but yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: (22:25) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, people hit me to have my story with mom and that's definitely like a Humvee, 100% of all of that, that, that resilience, that consistent, that real manelessness come from being an athlete and doing this sort of stuff. And so, so many benefits of people. And that's why, you know, I love encouraging people to get into running or any sport. But running is a, is a, is it, I think it's one that, again, going back to our ancestral ways, this is how we used to communicate this and how we used to get from one village to the next, the one, you know, we didn't have cars and everything else and, and it's the most instinctive, natural form of movement that we don't. And even in thing, you know, walking, running, you know, whatever in doing ultra-marathons there's a heck of a lot of walking isn't there? Oh my gosh. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: (23:21) Race. The race is a loosely defined term, you know, death shuffle, shuffle. So you know, I love to share some of your stories like I've asked you guys, you know, hopefully we can share some of your stories within the hour, you know, running hot coaching out online club and also on our websites and stuff. And you know, what I love about this is a being connected through our frame vendors that we've disconnecting. You know, the USA with new Zealanders, with Australians who listen to this podcast. It's mostly my audience, New Zealand and Australia. We have got other people in other places as well, but at say international illness, you know, but we all have the shared love of, of running and ultra marathon running and Beecher and nature and you know, for one side of the road to the other with these stories. And I think that that's, that's pretty damn cool.
Speaker 2: (24:16) I just love that. You know, I think it's exciting. I think that's really neat. Yeah. It makes us feel more together and it's not in this crosses right now. We need to feel together. You know, like you guys are facing some really, really tough times in America. I think way worse than what we are experiencing. And if we can, you know, again, in this Karina time, we need to pull together, we need to focus, we need the strengths that are run as heavy, you know, push through these tough times and not give up. Tom's, he gotta to get tough for a lot of people. And you being a financial advisor guy would probably know, you know, lots of horror stories coming your way. And, and being able to help people through this sort of a crisis, I think you know, in having good stories always does that.
Speaker 2: (25:07) So, you know, I just wanted to say thanks for coming on today and for sharing your, your stories and for connecting with us down at the other end of the ears. And I hope one day that I'm actually going to be able to come and poverty won't run for malts anymore. I'm retired now, but I might come and know what you guys do. One that would be so cold. You never know. What would be your, like if you had a couple of messages for people listening out there who have never run in their lives and think that this is only for the super Tufts super cold, super amazing athletes, they want me to say to that? Yeah, I think I would say aye. I think we, I think as, as humans we just, we always are putting limits on what we can do.
Speaker 2: (26:00) And we're always kind of, you know, it's almost like I hear so many people say, well, I have bad knees or I can't, I just can't do it. Right. There's, you know, and Jen, obviously some people probably can't do it, you know, not everyone can. And we're lucky to have you know, I've, I've run the show I'm with, with, with farmers and carpenters and Marines and every, every segment of life out there. I've seen people doing these things and I mean age. Yeah. I mean just people in their, in their seventies doing, doing a hundred miles. So we see the whole spectrum. I think the biggest thing is, you know, just get out there and do it. Just start with something, you know, even if it's a couple of him and if it's walk a half mile, walk a mile and just get out there. And if it's something, I think you'd be amazed what you can, what you can do. And then, and again, we're, we're here to tell you we are, I'm Todd, we are his averages. Again, there's nothing special about Austin.
Speaker 2: (26:59) I mean you can, you can do a lot more than you than you think is possible. I think that's my, and I think to have the courage to try and then, and not worry about failing and running for me, like a little tidbit is I don't care if you, if you run a hundred miles a week or one mile a week, that first mile is the hardest every, every day, every night. So I think sometimes he will get to that mile and they're like, it's just too hard. But if you know that it's hard for everybody, no matter how often you run or how long you run. I mean, I think that's my biggest take is have her smile. But after you get past that first mile, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. But that first 20 minutes of everybody's run and was even sitting, but it's for some people, right?
Speaker 2: (27:46) For me can be worst part. And most people give up and before that, like, you know, the runners and they think that the whole time is going to be like that. And you're like, she's just getting to the good stuff. Guys. You're just warming up. Cause man, when you get to that warm up part, everything was clear on the fog goes away. Yeah. And that's why the warmups bloody important people listen for you even by writing. And then I'm preaching to myself here because I'm still, I know that I should be warming up every time and I have a much better one when I do warm up properly, we all have a tendency, I've got, I've got an hour, half an hour or an hour, I've got to go straight out the door and I'm fixing my miles and I've got to see it on Strava, you know, warm up doesn't count, so I'm not doing it. And that's dumb. That's a good way to look guys. I really appreciate you coming on today and I want to hear more. I want to she's some of the stories that you've already written and I'd love to do some more connections, you know, have some more discussions with you and the heavier now running hot sharing in being involved with us. Cause I love what you're doing and I think it's pretty cool. Yeah. We love what you're doing. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: (29:19) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over. Visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
08 Aug 2024
Introducing 1-MNA: The New Longevity Molecule With Lisa Tamati
00:20:48
In this episode, we delve into a revolutionary longevity molecule that you might not have heard of before: 1-MNA. If you're interested in staying younger longer and if you want to maintain your energy and vitality then this is an episode for you.
Perhaps you have read the groundbreaking book by Dr David Sinclair "Lifespan" where he talks about NAD and how crucial it is for the body and how it can help upregulate sirtuin genes (longevity genes) and help you maintain your cellular health and energy. We are now 4 years on we have more data, studies and information to share in this arena.
Perhaps you have been trying to improve your NAD metabolism, taking NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) or NR (nicotinamide riboside), and upregulating sirtuin genes, if you have then you need to hear this.
We'll explore the intricacies of NAD pathways, the role of key enzymes, and why simply supplementing with NAD precursors may not be the best holistic approach and how we can improve on that approach to anti-aging
Importance of understanding the complexities of NAD pathways beyond the basics.
Understanding 1-MNA:
Explanation of 1-MNA and its role in controlling NAD levels by blocking the enzyme NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase).
The dangers of upregulating NNMT, which degrades NAD and can lead to various health issues.
Key Enzymes in NAD Metabolism:
Discussion on the salvage pathway and two critical enzymes that degrade NAD.
Importance of regulating NNMT to prevent its deleterious effects, particularly in senescent cells, cancer cells, and fat cells.
Benefits of 1-MNA
How 1-MNA can help maintain a balanced NAD metabolism by inhibiting NNMT.
Potential benefits for conditions like schizophrenia, neurodegeneration, liver diseases, and cancer.
Research and Studies:
Overview of studies showing the positive effects of 1-MNA on post-COVID conditions, inflammation, and mitochondrial function.
Insights from animal studies on 1-MNA's protective effects against metabolic disorders.
Practical Applications:
Recommendations for integrating 1-MNA into supplement regimens, especially for those taking NMN or NR.
Potential benefits for various conditions, including obesity, metabolic syndrome, cardiac disease, liver disease, cancer risk, long COVID, and fatigue.
Balancing NAD Levels:
Importance of maintaining NAD levels for energy production, DNA repair, neurotransmitter health, and longevity.
The role of NAD as a redox molecule and the balance between NAD+ and NADH.
Conclusion:
Encouragement to explore further research on NNMT and its impact on health.
Final thoughts on the potential of 1-MNAas a crucial supplement for maintaining NAD balance and promoting longevity.
If you enjoyed this episode, please give it a like, share, and subscribe to the YouTube channel.
Tune in weekly for more interviews with top doctors and scientists on health optimization and longevity.
Get Your 1-MNA now
If you want to start supplementing with 1-MNA to support your own healthy aging journey, to upregulate your NAD metabolism, support sirtuin genes and prevent the overexpression of the deleterious NNMT Enzyme you can buy it here: 1-MNA and use code NAD to get $25 off your first order
Stay up-to-date with the latest research and evolve with the science to optimize your health and longevity. See you in the next episode!
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
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No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
DNA Testing and Analysis for Disease Prevention and Health Optimisation with Kashif Khan
01:02:02
Health optimisation often involves a good diet, sleep, and exercise. But do we know how to implement practices that are compatible with our bodies? For some people, intense exercise can lead to more oxidative stress and inflammation! Not only that, some of us take medication and pills to treat pain and hormones, but are these really helping?
Small actions today can lead to big problems in the future.
Kashif Khan from The DNA Company joins us in this episode to talk about how understanding our DNA can help us make better choices for our health. Diseases can be prevented with healthy habits. But before you try any DNA testing, you should understand the nuances within the genetic industry. With Kashif’s advice, you can learn to choose a provider that can help you take actionable steps.
If you want to know more about the science behind DNA testing for health optimisation, then this episode is for you!
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
Every process in your body is being driven by genetic instructions.
Kashif’s company set out to make these instructions more actionable for their clients.
You can do a quick online search of ‘DNA testing near me’ and get many hits, but you won’t get the results you want out of these.
Many of our diseases are preventable; consistently making the wrong choices can lead us to develop these illnesses.
Those choices will not be the same for everyone. You can look at your genetics to see what the right choices are for you.
[08:11] Know What You’re Testing For
Most companies offering DNA testing tend to make conclusions based on a single gene. However, the body is more complex than that.
Many of these DNA tests don’t really dive deep into your health.
To make their business model profitable, many businesses in the genetic industry sell their patient’s data to pharmaceutical companies.
The genetic industry has been used as a data collection machine. Kashif’s vision for their company is to turn this situation around and derive key insights for their consumers.
[12:35] The Role of Hormones in Health
Kashif observes that their company has had the biggest impact on women's healthcare.
This is due to the massive gap between what women need and what is provided by traditional healthcare.
There is a widespread belief that women are supposed to have hormone-related issues like PMS. However, this should not be the case.
Tune in to the full episode to find out how Kashif helped pinpoint his niece’s hormone issues using DNA testing and analysis.
[19:26] Covering Up the Symptoms
The healthcare industry tends to look at a problem in isolation and try to treat it with medication.
Treating hormonal issues is not as simplistic as prescribing pills for the hormones a patient lacks. Listen to the full episode to hear more insights on this topic!
For instance, we’re led to believe that women are prone to breast cancer when they reach menopause. However, this condition is preventable.
[24:01] Applying AI to DNA Testing
Kashif’s company found it challenging to train clinicians to interpret results from DNA testing.
To remedy this problem, they are using AI technology to create personalised reports and recommendations.
As a result, their reports are now much more comprehensive. It even analyses your mood and behaviour—crucial factors when it comes to dealing with your health.
[30:05] Understanding Your Mood and Behaviour
Lisa’s high adrenaline and lack of dopamine receptors manifest in an action-oriented behaviour.
Kashif shares that having low dopamine receptors can also lead to addiction or depression. That's because you are predisposed to not experience reward and pleasure.
Curious to know how your genes affect your mood? Find out how DNA testing can shed a light on this in the full episode!
You can view your gene expressions two-fold: a weakness and a superpower. For instance, you may think that you are irritable. But that also makes you detail-oriented.
[35:50] Change Takes Effort
Kashif’s company is focused on solving and preventing problems.
People may get great recommendations, but the real challenge lies in implementation and change.
Community and accountability are important to help people stay on track.
Group accountability with people in similar situations can increase motivation and persistence.
[42:21] Prevention is the Key
The current healthcare system is based on a reactive model rather than a preventive one.
Diseases can be prevented; we don’t need to reach a point of crisis until we take action.
In the US, the Center for Disease Control created a Diabetes Prevention Program, the first of its kind in the country.
[47:31] Health at the Cellular Level
Diseases are born from inflammation, which is based on cellular health. Cellular health depends on the body’s capacity for detoxification and oxidative stress.
Simple activities like golfing can have long term effects. Kashif shares that golfers may be in danger of inhaling pesticides in golf courses.
Exercise may work for some people. However, people with weaker SOD2 are prone to oxidative stress and more toxicity in the blood.
Your genetics will dictate what kind and how much exercise you should do. Listen to the full episode to learn more!
[56:34] The Future of Healthcare
Beyond DNA testing and analysis, it’s important to have someone knowledgeable on your end. They can help patients get the most value out of the reports.
New technologies tend to go through different phases. These involve deception, disruption, dematerialisation, demonetisation, and democratisation.
The technology in the genetic industry is becoming more accessible. It is now near the latter phases of technology development.
7 Powerful Quotes
‘We didn't go study DNA. There's enough science out there already. We studied people. We said, “Let's start at what's wrong with this person? What are they expressing as a symptom? Let's drill down genetically to see where is the system failing.”’
‘Of all the things we do, female hormone health is where we had the biggest impact. Not because we're the greatest, but because it's the worst experience in current healthcare.’
‘The DNA world looks at things in terms of disease. So you can speak at it that way. But there's so much more to it than that if you know how to interpret it.’
‘We believe coaching is primarily around accountability. So we have coaches we train that understand the reports, that can help.’
‘We're all coming out of the same model, I suppose this reactive healthcare model. Really, we're inventing the future of healthcare.‘
‘That's only then when you have that persistence and the resilience to actually go through with these changes that you're actually going to get new results.’
‘This reactive system that we're living in at the moment and the current model is just bloody bandaids on festering wounds.’
About Kashif
Kashif Khanis the founder and CEO of The DNA Company, a functional genomics company. They help people understand their unique genetic code and how to unlock their physical potential. If you’re looking for ‘DNA testing near me’, their company is the one to call. They ensure actionable advice through a comprehensive genomic profile.
Kashif is also the co-founder and CEO of Younutrients. Their company provides supplement formulations personalised to people’s unique needs. In addition, he is also an investor and serial entrepreneur. He has helped build, scale, and run several businesses across different industries. He has advised early-stage startups and Fortune 500 companies including the Royal Bank of Canada and Cirque du Soleil.
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be inspired to search for ‘DNA testing near me’ and optimise their health.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
03 Feb 2022
Marathon Des Sables 2021: Run Your Best in an Ultramarathon with Hazel Harrison
01:00:42
Marathon des Sables, also known as MdS or the Sahara Marathon, is a seven-day ultramarathon of 250 kilometres in the Sahara Desert. It’s one of the toughest foot races, and its 2021 edition is considered the toughest with around a 50% dropout!
In this episode, Hazel Harrison joins us to recount her experience leading to and during the marathon. Ultramarathons are already tough, but with people coming out of lockdowns, it became even more challenging! Hazel shares her success was in being able to ask for help, staying resilient and learning to listen to her body.
If you want to learn more about running your best in an ultramarathon, then this episode is for you!
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Discover Hazel’s journey to the Marathon de Sables and how she stayed firm in her decision despite the cancellations.
Understand how the marathon was even more challenging since it took place during a pandemic.
Learn valuable lessons from Hazel’s Marathon de Sables experience!
Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up
For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go tohttps://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.
Customised Online Coaching for Runners
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit training into your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
[01:59] Hazel’s Experience with the Marathon des Sables
Hazel is a businesswoman running a dog daycare, business coaching, and run coaching. She is also a former army nurse.
Hazel shares that she first dreamed of joining the Marathon de Sables back in 1986. It was only in 2018 that she committed to join the 2020 marathon.
Six months before the marathon, she found out that she had stage 3 melanoma.
Four weeks before the marathon, it was cancelled and moved to September due to the pandemic.
Hazel shares that she was losing motivation and was even over-trained from all the cancellations.
[09:39] How to Help Your Body Perform at its Best
Hazel shares that Lisa’s epigenetics program helped her mentally and physically by pinpointing the best time for her to exercise.
Her routine was based on her time with the army. The program helped her adjust based on her body’s needs.
She also took NMN and PerfectAmino to help heal her hamstring.
[12:38] Hazel’s Journey to the Marathon
Travelling during the pandemic was a whole different story. The marathon required full vaccination and a negative COVID-19 test for participants to join.
There were only 672 participants since people were still hesitant to travel during the pandemic.
The heat in the Sahara desert was oppressive and slowed down Hazel’s body.
She even nearly ran out of water before the first checkpoint, and she was drinking faster than she should have.
There is also the danger of hyponatremia in marathons.
[22:53] Day 2 and Day 3
Day 2 and 3 were at 55.6 degrees, and people were dropping out due to hyperthermia.
A runner also passed away on the second day.
By the third day, Hazel was not feeling well and had gastro pains.
She was reminded to not be afraid to reach out for help and asked to stay with 2 teammates for the long day.
[34:04] How Hazel Performed Beyond 50k
Hazel was able to get a second wind once she went past 50k.
Around 50% dropped out, leaving only 351 people who finished the marathon.
The Marathon des Sables was challenging due to the heat. People had to keep on adjusting their plans.
The lockdowns also compromised the immune systems of many individuals.
[40:26] Learning from Experience
Fear can impact people’s stress levels, immune systems, and coping abilities.
A 50% dropout is not typical in ultramarathons. For the Marathon de Sables, it was normally at 5%.
Ultramarathons teach you to be self-sufficient and reliant.
[44:15] Hazel’s Transition After the Marathon
The marathon forced people to live simple lives and appreciate the things we usually take for granted.
Hazel shares that she ordered a spin bike upon returning. This exercise also helped her process the experience.
She is also currently writing a book about the marathon.
[52:47] Stay Focused
Running ultramarathons is a lot like dealing with diseases like cancer. You need to stay focused and resilient.
After the third cancellation, Hazel needed to reset and rediscover the joy of running.
Training is not about being able to run 90k per week, Every run should have a purpose.
About Hazel
Hazel Harrisonis an ultrarunner who recently participated in Marathon de Sables. She is also a certified breath coach and a certified professional transformational coach with over 30 years of experience. Hazel specialises in directional coaching, business coaching and mentoring teenager coaching, team coaching, bespoke leadership and team workshops.. She is also the owner of Nose2tail Doggy Daycare in New Zealand.
Want to learn more about Hazel’s work? Check out herwebsite.
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me onFacebook,Twitter,InstagramandYouTube.
Improving Healthy Human Longevity Through Gene Therapy With Liz Parrish
01:24:18
In this weeks episode with Liz Parrish the CEO and founder of Bio Viva Sciences we do a deep dive into the exciting and promising world of Gene Therapies and in particular Gene Therapies aimed at curing Ageing as a disease.
Liz is a visionary at the cutting edge of a brave new world, a world where ageing may not longer exist, she is pioneer who courageously tested the gene therapies out on herself first at the first human to receive some of them way back in 2015 already.
What you will learn in this episode:
The motivation behind Liz's mission an why the disease of her child led her to where she is today
The state of the regulatory situation in regards to gene therapies and what Liz hopes to change and achieve and how you might be able to get involved and help
Why going after ageing is THE most important thing we can do - That ageing is at the base of most of the big killers from alzheimers to cancers and why going after ageing instead of single diseases is a better approach
What is AAV delivery process and how are gene therapies delivered and what is is next in this space
What gene therapies are already approved by the Regulatory bodies and what is next
Why medical tourism is the only way to get these therapies currently and how Bio Viva can use this data collected on humans to further her clinical research and the case for change in the regulatory system
Why we are 20 to 30 years behind in the clinics and hospital when compared to the technologies actually available today.
The avalanche that is about to hit the world in regards to the demographics of the ageing population and why we need change now
How current medical advances have bought us extended lifespan but not necessarily healthspan and how we can change that.
We discuss the therapies targeting Follistatin, Klotho, Telomere Attrition and others
For more information visit https://bioviva-science.com/ For those interested in getting Gene Therapy visit: https://www.integrated-health-systems.com/
If you want to join the petition to support regulatory changes in the gene therapy space please go to:
Every day thousands of patients die from aging-associated non-communicable diseases (AA-NCDs). AA-NCDs have been recognised by the United Nations as a "threat to global development." and a mandate has been set to improve the consequences of such diseases. Helping patients get access to new therapeutics is Best Choice Medicine's primary objective.
Elizabeth Parrish is a humanitarian, entrepreneur, innovator, author, and advocate for genetic cures. As a proponent of progress and education for the advancement of regenerative medicine, she serves as a motivational speaker to the public at large for the life sciences. She is actively involved in international educational media outreach and is a founding member of the International Longevity Alliance (ILA). She is a member of the Life Science Institute of New Jersey, whose mission is to further scientific understanding of the nature and origins of human disease. She was the founder of BioTrove Investments LLC and the BioTrove Podcasts, offering a meaningful way for people to learn about and fund research in regenerative medicine.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Ep23: Cam Langsford Triathlete, Ironman, Software Developer and Entrepreneur
01:06:38
Cam Langford is a competitive Triathlete, Ironman competitor, software architetct and entrepreneur. Founder of health and fitness coaching platform "Training Tilt" which is a complete toolkit for coaches and health and fitness professionals. Combining a website, ecommerce, client communications and training plans into a single platform.
Previously he has worked for over 10 years as a senior software developer in startups and knows the state the industry, the opportunities for young entrepreneurs wanting to opt out of working for big corporations and the skills and knowledge necessary to get underway.
His knowledge is cutting edge and gives the technologically uninitiated an understandable way to see and take advantage of the opportunities that the new plethora of software tools offer.
Opportunities that he says just 8- 10 years ago weren't available to the average person.
We live in unprecedented times and the ways to monetize an individuals skills are unlimited. The road has many pothills and it isn't easy so getting the inside running from an expert in this sector is invaluable.
For anyone thinking of opting out of the matrix, starting a side hustle or wanting to the take the leap in to entrepreneurship this podcast is a must listen.
25 Jul 2024
Unlocking The Healing Potential Of Aloe Polysaccharides With Dr John Lewis
01:11:18
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. John Lewis, a leading expert in nutritional research and the therapeutic potential of Aloe polysaccharides. Dr. Lewis shares insights from his groundbreaking studies on Alzheimer's disease, multiple sclerosis (MS), and the broader impacts of Aloe polysaccharides on immune function and brain health.
Key Topics Discussed
Understanding Aloe Polysaccharides
What are Aloe polysaccharides?
How are they extracted and formulated for nutritional supplements?
Research on Alzheimer's Disease and Multiple Sclerosis
Overview of Dr. Lewis's studies on Alzheimer's disease and MS.
Impact of Aloe polysaccharides on cognitive function and disease progression.
Immune System Modulation
Effects of Aloe polysaccharides on CD4 to CD8 ratios.
Regulation of key cytokines: TNF-alpha, VEGF, and BDNF.
Balancing TH1 and TH2 responses.
Brain Care Formulation
Detailed discussion on the Brain Care formulation developed by Dr. Lewis.
Clinical results and patient outcomes.
Challenges in Nutritional Research
Funding difficulties for nutritional and supplement research.
Issues with the pharmacological model of placebo-controlled randomized double-blind trials.
Why this model is challenging for evaluating supplements and nutritional interventions.
Future Directions and Innovations
Potential future applications of Aloe polysaccharides in other health conditions.
Innovations in nutritional research methodologies.
Key Takeaways
Aloe Polysaccharides: Naturally occurring compounds with significant therapeutic potential, particularly in modulating immune function and supporting brain health.
Clinical Research: Dr. Lewis's studies highlight the positive effects of Aloe polysaccharides on Alzheimer's disease, MS, and overall immune health.
Nutritional Research Challenges: The current pharmacological model of clinical trials poses challenges for the study of supplements, necessitating new research approaches.
Research References
Studies on Alzheimer's disease and Aloe polysaccharides: Positive impacts on cognitive function and disease markers.
Research on MS: Aloe polysaccharides and their role in managing symptoms and progression.
Immune modulation: Detailed findings on CD4/CD8 ratios, cytokines (TNF-alpha, VEGF, BDNF), and TH1/TH2 balance.
Dr. John Lewis provides compelling evidence on the health benefits of Aloe polysaccharides and underscores the need for innovative research methodologies in nutritional science. This episode offers valuable insights for anyone interested in the intersection of nutrition, immune function, and brain health.Connect with Dr. John Lewis
If you want to get Daily Brain Care visit our online curated range of cutting edge longevity and anti-aging supplements at
BIO
John E. Lewis, Ph.D. is the Founder and President of Dr Lewis Nutrition™.
Dr. John E. Lewis has spent most of his career developing a unique approach as someone who "walks the walk" through all of his combined professional and personal experiences to attaining optimal health through nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise. Throughout his research career, he has evaluated many different nutritional approaches to enhancing well-being, particularly for brain health, immune function, and counteracting aging. He can separate fact from fiction regarding how to utilize nutrition and dietary supplements to help you achieve and maintain optimal health. If you need a trusted source of information, products, and services, then look no further than Dr. Lewis and how he can help you achieve your health-related goals.
Professional Career
Dr. Lewis is past full-time Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine and the Founder and President of Dr Lewis Nutrition™. He is a Diplomate, Faculty Member, and Advisor of the Medical Wellness Association. He has been the principal investigator of over 30 different studies on human health in his research career. During that time, he either directly raised or indirectly supported raising over $23 million in grants, gifts, and contracts for research studies and clinical trials and educational programs for medical students. In addition to his research, Dr. Lewis has been an invited national and international lecturer and guest speaker at conferences and as a guest on television shows. He is a well-known author with over 180 peer-reviewed publications in some of the world's leading scientific journals. He has also mentored many different students, from undergraduates to post-doctoral trainees, in not only how to conduct clinical research but to apply the principles of health promotion into daily practice.
Research Interests
Much of Dr. Lewis's research has focused on evaluating the effects of nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise on various aspects of human health. He and his colleagues have been continually searching for ways to help people achieve and maintain health through natural treatments that align with our physiology. A primary stimulus for the origin of Dr Lewis Nutrition™ occurred after Dr. Lewis ran his landmark study on how an aloe polysaccharide multi-nutrient complex improved cognitive and immune functioning after 12 months in persons with moderate to severe Alzheimer's disease, leading to the creation of the dietary supplement, Daily Brain Care. Daily Brain Care showed clinically and statistically significant improvements in cognition according to the ADAS-cog cognition score and statistically significant improvements in inflammation (according to TNFα and VEGF), immune function (according to the CD4/CD8 ratio), and adult stem cells (according to CD14+ cells). His seminal publication from the study in the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease not only spurred him to leave academics and pursue a science-based business career, but also enabled him to be selected for a widely-acclaimed TEDxMiami talk.
Founding Dr Lewis Nutrition™
While Dr. Lewis still maintains an academic affiliation, he chose to leave a full-time research career to pursue his true passion of helping people achieve health through nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise. His research in brain health and immune function was key in the creation of Daily Brain Care, but afterward he chose to shift into business where the opportunity to reach a larger audience is greater. Dr Lewis Nutrition™ is the vehicle through which Dr. Lewis leverages his many years of personal and professional work to spread a message of health that is so desperately needed, particularly for those who are afflicted with an all-too-common chronic disease, e.g., neurodegeneration, immune dysfunction, or cardiac and metabolic disorder. Dr. Lewis will continue to be a thought leader to help people utilize the power of nutrition and dietary supplements and learn how to take control of and optimize their health.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Ep 57: Kate Sanderson shares her harrowing experience being burnt by a forest fire during an ultramrathon
00:58:52
Kate Sanderson, is a rather, shy, introverted Australian girl, who loved nothing more than to run ultramarathons but one particular ultramarathon in the Kimberleys in Western Australia was to change her life forever.
Kate shares her horrifying story of seeing a wall of fire coming towards her and a small group of other runners including the famous Turia Pitt as they ran through a gorge,
Each runner tried a different way to escape the flames, two managed to get out unhurt, another two suffered burns to 20% of their bodies and Turia and Kate unfortunately got his the worse and were burnt over 60% of their bodies.
Kate lost half a foot, the tendons on her hands melted as she tried to protect her face with her hands and her arms and legs were severely burnt. For 4 long hours they hung on for dear life while waiting for rescue. What ensued was another 6 months of intense rehab, skin grafts and operations and years of recovery.
Now 7 years on Kate is back doing what she loves, doing ultras all over the world even conquering the infamous Marathon des Sables a 240km race across the Moroccan Sahara last year and the Grand to Grand in the USA and that despite not being able to regulate her temperature properly.
Next up is a 316km ultra in New Zealand the Alps 2 Ocean.
In this incredibly rare interview Kate shares her very private journey and I had the privilege to interview this incredibly strong woman.
We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Megadosing Thiamine for Many Diseases With Elliot Overton
01:01:20
In this episode I interview Nutritionist and functional Medicine Clinician, Thiamine Expert Elliot Overton on Thiamine Protocols and nutritional deficiencies and how Thiamine could be a key nutrient that can help in many many diseases from:
Multiple Sclerosis
Kidney Disease
Heart Disease
Stroke
Parkinson
Diabetes
Beriberi
Anxiety
Liver Disease
Coeliac Disease
Fibromyalgia
Peripheral Neuropathy
Migraine
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Autism
In this episode you will learn:
The basics of Thiamine and how it impacts energy metabolism
Why functional Thiamine deficiencies are more common than you think
Why it helps is such a plethora or seemingly unrelated conditions
How thiamine is at the gateway to two major energy pathways and how it affects mitochondria - the power houses of our cells
We discuss the life work of a pioneers in this space Dr Derrick Lonsdale and Dr Chandler and their book Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition
If you are interested to find out more you can get the complete clinical guide from Elliot at https://thiamineprotocols.com/
or visit his main website at https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/
If you are looking for TTFD one of the types of Thiamine mentioned in this podcast you can get it here:
As always this is not medical advice and is for educational purposes only, see your medical practitioner for advice before starting any supplement.
BIO Elliot is a nutritional therapist based in the south of France, where he runs a private nutritional practice called EONutrition and consults with people virtually from around the globe. Elliot originally developed a keen interest in the clinical application of mega-dose thiamine (vitamin B1) through studying the work of Dr Derrick Lonsdale, and after several years of experience with applying high doses of this nutrient in clinical practice and witnessing the immense benefits it could provide, he now seeks to raise awareness of its therapeutic potential through educating others
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Inside the Mind of New Zealand Olympic Runner Rod Dixon
01:27:59
Becoming a championship medalist — or an Olympic medalist — is an ambitious goal that many athletes dream of. But are we training the right way? In reality, training to be an Olympic runner is more than just stretching your physical limits; it's also about your recovery, mental strength, environment and so much more.
In this episode, famed Olympic runner Rod Dixon joins us to talk about his journey in becoming an Olympic medalist and his victory at the NYC marathon. He shares why creating a strong foundation is crucial, no matter what you’re training for.
If you want to learn from and be inspired by one of New Zealand’s greatest runners, then this episode is for you!
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Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Discover the necessary foundation an Olympic runner used to create a solid training base.
Learn to believe in yourself and avoid being influenced by others.
Understand how to build a strong mentality to handle self-doubt and hesitation.
Resources
Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limit Podcast by becoming apatron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for NZD 7 and NZD 15 per month, respectively. Check out the different benefits of each in the link.
Rod’sKiDSMARATHONis a running and nutrition educational programme organised to help children in the United States and the world! Check out his website.
Rod shares that his brother John was a significant part of his running career. John helped coach Rod while Rod was young.
He fondly remembers his time growing up and always running from place to place.
His father used to explore and travel around Australia by bike, while his mother played basketball and did gymnastics.
[11:42] Early Years of Training
Learn by doing. You can run the same race twice, but don’t expect a different result when you do everything the same. Run differently.
Rod grew up loving cross country racing, especially the beach races through dunes.
It was during this time that he was inspired to reach for the 1968 Olympics. His brother, John, immediately put him on a training regimen.
Once you have a goal, you need to know how to reach it and what you’re prepared to do for it.
Multiple amazing runners inspired Rod to keep going for his goal. Tune in to find out who!
[19:13] Approach to the Foundations
Get the timing right first, not the miles. The foundation is to start with running long and slow.
Rod's brother, John, also helped keep a logbook of his training. This enabled them to narrow down what to improve and work on.
Athletes don’t get better from training; improvement comes from rest and recovery.
Learn to prioritise your health. This will bring more results than just pushing yourself too hard on your training all the time.
Know that there’s a period for different types of training. There will be times when you’ll need to set your foundations and conditioning right first.
[25:20] Rod’s Journey Towards Becoming an Olympic Runner
Getting acclimated to an area is essential to planning an Olympic runner’s training regimen.
With the help of John, Rod realised he was a strength runner. This knowledge became crucial in planning for his races.
When you train with runners, it will be a race. Train with marathon runners, and it will be a long and slow run. Choose your training partners based on your needs.
Rod’s training with runners helped him learn more than just racing. His nutrition improved, too.
Listen to the full episode for Rod’s exciting account of his Olympic journey—from qualifications to his training!
[36:47] Handling Self-Doubt
Rod shares that he also had bouts of self-doubt. During these times, he would look for his brother John, his mother and his grandmother.
Ground yourself and just run, not for training but to clear your head and be in the moment.
In a lot of things, confidence matters more than ability. The more confident you are, the more it will bring out your ability.
Don’t be influenced by bad habits.
What matters is finishing the race. Finishing in itself is already a win.
[42:02] Life as a Professional Athlete
Training effectively resulted in Rod becoming an Olympic runner, medalist and breaking records.
Rod shares that he works full-time in addition to taking on small jobs to balance the costs.
Tune in to the episode to hear the ups and downs of being an Olympic runner and a professional athlete.
[50:07] Transition from Short to Long Races
After his experiences as an Olympic runner, Rod wanted to focus on cross country and longer races.
Once you have your foundations, you will need to adjust your training for long races. It's not going to be much different from what you're already doing.
Rod shares that he had to work towards the NYC marathon through conquering half marathons and many other experiences.
Build on your experiences and learn to experiment. Rod discusses his training in the full episode!
[1:04:47] Believe in Your Ability
When preparing for a big race, you need to protect your mindset and remember that running is an individual sport — it's all about you.
Don’t be influenced by others. Learn to pace yourself and run your own race.
A race starts long before you set your foot on the track. Listen to the full episode for Rod’s recounting of the NYC marathon.
[1:21:23] Build and Develop Your Mentality
People will often hesitate when they face a hill. When you’re in this situation, just keep going.
Sometimes, some things won’t happen the way you want them to. But certainly, your time will come.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘John would tell me. He said, ‘You know, you've run the same race twice expecting a different result.’ He said, ‘You've got to run differently.’
'He said, 'You know, you set a goal, but I won't tell you how to do it. So, you've got to figure out what you're prepared to do. And I think, [it was] then [that] I realised it was my decision making and I had to focus.'
‘You don't improve when you train, you improve when you recover.’
‘Just remember to learn by doing.’
‘I just thought this [the race] is about me. It's not about anybody.’
‘I learned all that in my road racing. That sometimes, you just can't run away from people, but you can find out their vulnerable moments. And when they would come into a hill, they would hesitate because they’d look up the hill. And that's when you try.’
'My mother had said that sometimes, things won't happen the way you want them to. Sometimes, you know, you're watching this, but your time will come at another point or another time. And I realised then what she was saying when I had one that was my defining moment. It just took longer than average.'
About Rod
Rod Dixonis one of the most versatile runners from New Zealand. For 17 years, Rod continuously challenged himself with races. His awards include a bronze medal from the 1972 Olympic 1500m, two medals from the World Cross Country Championship and multiple 1500m championship titles from the United States, France, Great Britain and New Zealand. But most importantly, he is well-known for his victory at the 1983 New York City Marathon.
Now, Rod is passionate about children's health and fitness due to the lack of physical exercise and nutrition among children. ThroughKiDSMARATHON, he helps thousands of children learn the value of taking care of their bodies and developing positive life-long habits. The foundation has since made a difference in many children’s lives.
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Your host here, Lisa Tamati. Great to have you with me again. And before we head over to this week's exciting guest, just want to remind you, we have launched our premium membership for our patron programme for the podcast. So if you are loving the content, if you're enjoying it, if you're finding benefit in it and you want to help us keep getting this good content out to people, then we would love your support. And we would love to give you some amazing premium membership benefits as well. Head on over topatron.lisatamati.com. That's P-A-T-R-O-Npatron.lisatamati.com, and join our exclusive membership club, only a couple of dollars a month. It's really nothing major. But what it does is it helps us make this content possible. As you can imagine, five and a half years of doing this for love, we need a little bit of help to keep this going if we want to be able to get world-leading experts and continue to deliver such amazing content. So if you can join us, we'd be really, really appreciative of it. Head over topatron.lisatamati.com.
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Right over to the show now with an amazing guest who is one of my heroes, a hero from my childhood actually. Now I have Rod Dixon to guest. Rod Dixon, for those who don't know who he is, maybe you were born only in the past 20 years or so, and you really don't know. But if you're around when I was a kid, this guy was an absolute superstar. He is a four-times Olympian; he won a bronze medal at the 1972 Olympics. He's a runner, obviously, he won in the 1500 meters bronze medal. He's won multiple times championships and cross-country running, and who really one of his biggest successes was to win the New York City Marathon and absolute mammoth feats to do back in 1983. So hope you enjoy the insights that Rod Dixon is going to provide for you today. If you're a runner, you will love this one. But even if you just love interesting, amazing people then check out this interview with Rod Dixon.
Lisa:Well, welcome everybody. Today. I have an absolute legend with me on the show. I have Rod Dixon, one of my heroes from way back in the day, Rod, welcome to the show. It's wonderful to have you on Pushing the Limits. Thanks for taking the time.
Rod Dixon:Lisa, thank you. I mean, of course, I've known about you and read about you but this is our first time, and it's come about through the pandemic. So, some good things have come out of this.
Lisa:There’s definitely some good things come out of it. And I've definitely known about you sort of pretty much my entire, since I was a little kid. So you’re one of my heroes back in the day, so I was like, ‘Oh, wow’. And the funny thing is, we got to meet through a friend in America who just happened to know you. And I was talking with them, and they're like, and I'm like, ‘Can you introduce me?’ Via America we've come, but to get you to Kiwi, so wonderful to have you on the show, Rod.
Rod, you hardly need an introduction. I think people know sort of your amazing achievements as an athlete and runner are many, and we're going to get into them. I think one of the biggest, most incredible things was winning the 1983 New York City Marathon. And that iconic image of you with your hands in the air going, and that guy behind you not such good shape. That's one of the most famous images there is. But Rod, can you tell us a little bit about your story, where you came from, how did that you were such a good runner? Give us a bit of background on you.
Rod:I think, Lisa, I started… I was born in Nelson, and living out at Stoke, which is just not far out. And my brother, John, three years older, he went to Stoke Primary School. And so, I was in a centre, I think. And my mother came out to check on me. And there’s a young Rod, and he sees, and he said in the centre, ‘I'll go and take my shower now’. And that was my chance to then put all the things that I've learned of how to climb over the gate. And I climbed over the gate, then off I went. My mother got the phone call from the Stoke school. ‘Where is your son, Rodney?’ He said, ‘Oh he’s at the back, hanging in the sand’, and she's, ‘No, well, he's down here at the Stokes school with his brother’. Because we used to walk John down to school and walk and go and meet him to walk him back. And so, I knew that way. And here is my chance, so I think, Lisa, I started when I was four years old, when I ran out.
Lisa:When you are escaping? And your brother John. I mean, he was a very talented, amazing runner as well. And actually, he's got into it before you did. Tell us a little bit of his story, because he was definitely been a big part of your career as well. Tell us about John a little bit.
Rod:Yeah, well, my mother's family were from Mishawaka. They're all farmers. And fortunately, they were tobacco farmers, hot guns, and sheep and cattle. And so, we would be over with the family a lot of the time. And of course, a big farm, and John would always say, ‘Let's go down and catch some eels’ or ‘Let's go chase the rabbits’. And so we're on, outside running around all over time. And I think, then we used to have running races. And John would say, ‘Well, you have 10 yards and say, for 20 yards, 50 yards, and see if you can beat me down to the swing bridge.’ And I would try, and of course he’d catch me. So, there was always this incredible activity between us. And my dad was a very good runner, too. And so, we would go down for our, from the north we’ll go down to the beach for swim. Pretty well, most nights we could walk and run down there. So we would all run down. And then we would run along the beach to the estuary, and run back again.
And then my dad, of course, he would stride out and just make sure that we knew our packing order. Slowly but surely, you see John waited for his moment where he beat dad. And I think, dad turned around and came back to me and he said, ‘I won't run with John, I'll just run with you’. So, I knew what the story was that I had to do the same, but it took me another couple of years before I could beat my dad. So, running was very much an expression, very much part of us. We’d run to school, we’d run home. I would deliver the newspapers in the neighbourhood, most of the time I would run with dad. So, and then at 12 years old, I was able to join the running club, the Nelson Amateur Athletic Harriot and Cycling Club. There’s three or four hundred in the club, and it was just incredible because it was like another extension of the family. And so we would run on farms and golf courses and at the beach or at the local school, sometimes the golf cart would let us run on the golf club. So, there was this running club. So the love of running was very part of my life.
Lisa:And you had a heck of a good genetics by the sound of it. You were just telling me a story, how your dad had actually cycled back in the 40s, was this around Australia, something like 30,000 miles or something? Incredible, like, wow, that's and on those bikes, on those days. And what an incredible—say he was obviously a very talented sports person.
Rod:I think he was more of an adventurer. We’ve got these amazing pictures of him with his workers in those days, they have to wear knee high leather boots. He’s like Doctor Livingstone, explorer. And so he was exploring and traveling around Australia, just his diaries are incredible. What he did, where he went, and everything was on the bike, everything.. So, it was quite amazing, that endurance, I think you're right, Lisa...
Lisa:You had it in there.
Rod:...there’s this incredible thing and genetically, and my mother, she played basketball, and she was very athletic herself and gymnast. So I think a lot of that all came together for us kids.
Lisa:So you definitely had a good Kiwi kid upbringing and also some very, very good genetics, I mean, you don't get to the level that you have with my genetics that much. We're just comparing notes before and how we're opposite ends of the running scale, but both love running. It’s lovely. So Rod, I want to dive in now on to a little bit of, some of your major achievements that you had along the way and what your training philosophies were, the mentors that you had, did you follow somebody and started training? Who were you— so, take me forward a little bit in time now to when you're really getting into the serious stuff. What was your training, structure and stuff like back in the day?
Rod:Well, it's very interesting, Lisa. This was after did, in fact, incredibly, he was working, and with Rothmans, and he would travel the country. And he would come to the running clubs to teach the coaches, to impart his principles and philosophy with the coaches. And my brother being three years older, I think he tended to connect with that more so, as younger kids. And but we were just pretty impressed, and Bill Bailey used to come in as a salesperson, and he would come and we'd all go out for lunch with Bill and he would tell stories. And we were fascinated by that, and encouraged by it, and inspired by it. So, I think what John did, as we started, John will get to Sydney in 1990. And he noticed that young Rodney was starting to — our three favourite words, Lisa, it’s learned by doing. So I would learn from this race and I would adopt something different. I would try. When I knew, I mean, John would tell me, he said, ‘You've run the same race twice expecting a different result.’ He said, ‘You've got to run differently’. And I would go out train with John and then he would say, ‘Okay, now you turn around and go back home because we're going on for another hour’. So he knew how to brother me, how to look after me or study.
And so really, as I started to come through, John realised that maybe Rodney has got more talent and ability than I do. So, he started to put more effort into my training and that didn't really come to us about 18. So, he allowed those five, six years just for club running, doing the races, cross-country. I love cross country — and the more mud and the more fences and the more steep hills, the better I ran. And so that cross country running say I used to love running the beach races through the sand dunes. And I love trackless, fascinated with running on the grass tracks because of Peter Snell and yeah Murray Halberg. And also too fascinated with the books likeThe Kings Of Distanceand of course, Jack Lovelock winning in 1936. One of the first things I wanted to do was to go down to Timaru Boys High School and hug the oak tree that was still growing there, 80 years old now, Lisa because they all got a little oak sapling for the end, and that is still growing at Timaru Boys High School,
Lisa:Wow. That was so special.
Rod:There's a lot of energy from all around me that inspired me. And I think that's what I decided then that I was going to take on the training, John asked me, and I said yes. And he said, ‘What do you want to do?’ And he said, and I said, ‘Well, I just listened to the 1968 Olympics on my transistor radio’ — which I tell kids, ‘That was Wi-Fi, wireless’. And I said, I want to go to the Olympics one day. And he said, ‘Right, well, they know you've made the commitment’. Now, obviously, during the training, John would say, ‘Well, hold on, you took two days off there, what's going on? So, that’s okay’, he said, ‘You set a goal, but I told you how to do it. So you've got to figure out what you're prepared to do’. And I think then I realised it was my decision making and I had to focus.
So I really, there was very, very few days that I didn't comply — not so much comply — but I was set. Hey, my goal, and my Everest is this, and this is what it's going to take.
Lisa:And that would have been the 19, so 1972.
Rod:No, 1968.
Lisa:1968. Okay.
Rod:So now, I really put the focus on. Then we set the goal, what it would take, and really by 1970 and ‘70 or ‘71, I made the very, my very first Kewell Cross Country Tour. And I think we're finishing 10th in the world when I was just 20. We realised that that goal would be Olympics, that’s two years’ time, is not unreasonable. So, we started to think about the Olympics. And that became the goal on the bedroom wall. And I remember I put pictures of Peter Snell, Ron Clark and Jim Ryun and Kip Keino on my wall as my inspiration.
Lisa:Your visualisation technique, is that called now, your vision board and all that. And no, this was really the heyday of athletics and New Zealand, really. I mean, you had some, or in the 70s, at least, some other big names in the sport, did that help you — I don't think it's ever been repeated really, the levels that we sort of reached in those years?
Rod:No, no. know. It certainly is because there was Kevin Ross from Whanganui. He was 800, 1500. And then there's Dick Tyler, because he went on incredibly in 1974 at the Commonwealth Games, but Dick Quax, Tony Polhill, John Walker wasn't on the scene until about ‘73 right. So, but, here are these and I remember I went to Wanganui to run 1500. And just as a 21-year-old and I beat Tony Polhill who had won the British championships the year before. So we suddenly, I realised that —
Lisa:You’re world class.
Rod:First with these guys, I can — but of course, there were races where I would be right out the back door. And we would sit down with it now, was it tactics, or was it something we weren't doing in training, or was it something we overdid the train. And we just had to work that out. It was very, very feeling based.
Lisa:And very early in the knowledge like, now we have everything as really — I mean, even when I started doing ultramarathons we didn't know anything. Like I didn't even know what a bloody electrolyte tablet was. Or that you had to go to the gym at all. I just ran, and I ran slow and I ran long. And back then I mean, you did have some—I mean absolutely as approach what’s your take on that now like looking back and the knowledge we have now that sort of high mileage training stalls. What's your take on that?
Rod:Well, John realised, of course I am very much the hundred mile a week. John realised that and the terrain and I said, ‘I don't want to run on the right job. I just don't like that.’ He said, ‘Okay, so then, we’ll adapt that principle, because you like to run on the cross-country and mounds all around Nelson’. Yeah. And, and so we adapted, and I think I was best around the 80, 85 miles, with the conditioning. There would be some weeks, I would go to 100 because it was long and slow. And we would go out with the run to the other runners. And the talk test showed us how we were doing.
At 17, I was allowed to run them, Abel Tasman National Park. And of course, the track was quite challenging in those days, it wasn’t a walkway like it is now. And so you couldn't run fast. And that was the principle behind bringing us all over there to run long and slow. And just to get the timing rather than the miles.
Lisa:Keep it light then, the time is for us to use it.
Rod:So, he used to go more with time. And then after, we’d come to Nelson and he would give John time. And John would, of course, I would have to write everything down in my diary. And John would have the diaries there. And he would sit with Arthur and I would go through them. And afterwards, we would give a big check, and say that ‘I liked it. I like this, I liked it. I like to see you doing this’. And because we're still the basic principles of the period with the base as the foundation training, as you go towards your competitive peak, you're starting to narrow it down and do shorter, faster, or anaerobic work and with base track. And John, we just sit straight away, you don't improve when you train, you improve when you recover.
Lisa:Wow, wise.
Rod:Recovered and rest and recovery.
Lisa:Are you listening, athletes out there? You don't get better training alone. You need the rest and recovery, because that's still the hardest sell. That's still the hardest sell for athletes today, is to get them to prioritise the recovery, their sleep, their all of those sort of aspects over there. And like you already knew that back then.
Rod:And I said once again, just remember to learn by doing. So, unless you're going to record what you've learned today, you're not going to be able to refer to that. Sometimes John would say, ‘Ooh, I noticed today that you didn't do this and this. Bring your diary over.’ And on those days, of course, it was a blackboard and chalk. And he would write the titles at the top. And then from our diary, he would put under, he would take out, and he'd put under any of those headings. And then we'd stand back and said, ‘Now look at this. There's three on this one, nine on this one, two on this one, six on this one.’ We want to try and bring the lows up and the highs down. Let's get more consistency because this is your conditioning period. We don't need to have these spikes. We don't need to have this roller coaster. I want to keep it as steady as we can because it's a 8, 10-week foundation period. So those are the ways that we used to be. And John just simply said, he would say, when you wake up in the morning, take your heart rate. Take your pulse for 15 seconds, and write it down. And then he would say ‘Look, the work we did yesterday, and the day before, yesterday, I noticed that there's a bit of a spike in your recovery on Tuesday and Wednesday. So instead of coming to the track tonight, just go out for a long slow run’.
Lisa:Wow and this was before EPS and heart rate monitors, and God knows what we've got available to us now to track everything. So what an incredible person John must have been like, because he also gave up pretty much his potential, really to help you foster your potential because you obviously genetically had an extreme gift. That's a pretty big sacrifice really, isn’t?
Rod:He was incredible. And I just saw him yesterday, actually. And he used to live in the Marlborough Sounds. And of course, now that moved back to Nelson and so it's wonderful. I mean, I would always go down there and see him, and I used to love—well, I wouldn't run around — but I was biking around, all around the Marlborough Sounds, Kenepuru Sound. and I do four- or five-hour bike rides in the head. He says to me, ‘What was your big thing?’ And I said, ‘Well, I saw three cars today, John, for three hours’, and he said, ‘Oh, yes, and two of those were in the driveway’. It was amazing. I just loved down there, but now he's back here we see each other and talk and we go through our bike rides, and we go for a little jiggle, jog, as we call it now.
Lisa:And so he helped you hone and tailor all of this and give you that guidance so that you boost your really strong foundation. So what was it, your very first big thing that you did? Was it then, would you say that for the Olympics?
Rod:I think qualifying — no, not qualifying — but making the New Zealand cross-country team, The World Cross Country Team at 1971. I think that was the defining moment of what we were doing was, ‘Well, this is amazing.’ And so, as I said, 1971, I finished 10th in the world. And then then John said, ‘Well, what are you actually thinking for the Olympics? Are you thinking the steeplechase or the 5000 meters?’ And I said, ‘No, the 1500.’ ‘Why?’ And I said, ‘Oh, Jack Havelock, Peter Snell, John Davies’, and then, he said, ‘Good. You're committed, so let's do it’. Okay. Of course, once I have announced that, then, of course, I got all the — not criticism — but the suggestions from all the, ‘Well, I think Rod's a bit optimistic about the 1500. He hasn't even broken 1’50 for the 800 meters. He hasn't yet been broken 4 minutes for a mile. He wants to go to the Olympics. And I think he should be thinking, and John said, ‘Put the earmuffs on.’
Lisa:That is good advice. Don’t listen to the naysayers.
Rod:Off we go. And then slowly, but surely, I was able to get a lot of races against Dick Quax and Tony Powell, and Kevin Ross, in that. And then I remember, in Wellington at Lower Hutt, I was able to break the four-minute mile, then I got very close in a race to the Olympic Qualifying time. And then of course, you look at qualifications. And a lot of those runners didn't want, they already realised that they hadn't got anywhere near it. So they didn't turn out for the trials. So John gave up any idea of him going to the Olympics. And he said, ‘I'm coming to Auckland to pace you. And this time, you will stay right behind me. And when I move over and say go, go’. And so because we've done a couple of these earlier in the season, and ‘I said that I can sprint later.’ And of course, I missed out at the time, but this was it. And so, he said, ‘Our goal is for you to win the trials and to break the qualification’. And he made it happen. He said, he ran in one second of every lap to get me to 300 meters to go. When he moved over, and he said ‘Go!’ I got the fight of my life and took off.
Lisa:You wouldn't dare not, after that dedication order. And you qualified you got–
Rod:I won the trials and qualified. And Tony Polhill had qualified in his and he had won the national championship. So he qualified when the nationals and now I've qualified and won the trials. So, they actually, they took us both incredible. He was an A-grade athlete, I was a B-grade athlete. You got everything paid for, be in your head to train.
Lisa:Yes, I know that one. And so then you got to actually go to the Olympics. Now what was that experience like? Because a lot of people, not many people in the world actually get to go to an Olympics. What's it like? What's it like?
Rod:So we went to Scandinavia, and to Europe to do some pre-training. And on those days, we used to say, ‘Well, no, you got to acclimatised’. I mean, nowadays you can kind of go and run within a few days. But in my day, it was three to four weeks, you wanted to have —
Lisa:That's ideal to be honest.
Rod:Yeah, if they were right.
Lisa:Yeah. Get their time and like that whole jet lag shift and the changing of the time zones, and all of that sort of stuff takes a lot longer than people think to actually work out of the body. So yeah, okay, so now you're at the Olympics.
Rod:So here we were, so and John gave me a written for a track that schedule every day, and this was a training, and he had bounced with knowing that I was going to be flying from London to Denmark. And then, we're going to go to Sweden, and then we're going to go to Dosenbach. And so he expected in all the traveling, all the changes, and really a lot of it was I was able to go out there pretty well stayed with that. Now again, I realised that that wasn't going to work. And but what he had taught me, I was able to make an adjustment and use my feeling-based instinct, saying, ‘What would John say to this?’ John would say this because those all that journey, we'd have together, I learned very, very much to communicate with him. Any doubts, we would talk, we would sit down, and we would go over things. So, he had trained me for this very moment, to make decisions for myself. Incredible.
Lisa:Oh, he's amazing.
Rod:Absolutely.
Lisa:That’s incredible. I'm just sort of picturing someone doing all that, especially back then, when you didn't have all the professional team coaches running around you and massage therapists and whatever else that the guys have now, guys and girls.
Rod:It was the two days he knew that I would respond, it would take me four to five races before I started to hit my plateau. I found early in those days that — see, I was a strength trainer to get my speed. I came across a lot of athletes who had speed to get their strength. And so, what I wrote, I found that when I would go against the speed to street, they would come out of the gate, first race and boom, hit their time.
Lisa:Hit their peak.
Rod: Whereas, I would take three, four or five races to get my flow going. And then I would start to do my thing. My rhythm was here, and then all of a sudden, then I would start to climb my Everest. I've been new. And so John said, ‘These are the races that the athletic, the Olympic committee have given us. I want you to run 3000 meters on this race, I want you to run 800 meters if you can on this race. If you can't run 800, see if you can get 1000. I don't want you running at 1500 just yet. And so, then he would get me under, over. Under, and then by the time that three ball races, now it's time for you to run a couple of 1500s and a mile if you can. Then, I want you to go back to running a 3000 meters, or I want you to go back out and training’.
Lisa:Wow. Really specific. Like wow.
Rod:He was very unbelievable. Also to that at that time, I had these three amazing marathon runners, Dave McKenzie, our Boston Marathon winner, Jeff Foster, who is the absolute legend of our running, and a guy called Terry Maness. And John said to me, ‘Don't train with quacks and all those other guys. Run, do your runs with the marathon runners’. You see, and they would take me out for a long slow run. Whereas if you went out with the others, you get all this group of runners, then they’d all be racing each other.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t race when you're training
Rod:Your ego. With the pecking order, when you ran with the marathon runners, there was no pecking order.
Lisa:It's all about pacing and —
Rod:And of course, and I would eat with them too because I learned how to eat because they were better eaters than me. I would eat more carbohydrates and more organic foods because it was the long run. I learned to do that. It was interesting because Jack pointed out to me said, ‘Now you see those two guys that were at the track today. And they were doing, and you are quite overwhelmed because they are your competitors and they were doing this incredible workout’. And I said to them, I said, ‘Woop, that what I was up against’. And Jack said, ‘Put it behind you. I want you to come to the dining room with us tonight, and we'll try and see if we can sit with them or near them.’ And I’m sure enough, there they were over there and they were talking. And they were pushing their food all around their plate and they weren't eating much’. And Jack said, ‘Look at you, you've eaten everything, and you're going back for seconds and thirds. If they're not replacing their glycogen, they won’t be able to run very well in a couple of days because they're not eating right’. So that gave me the confidence. Oh, I'm eating better than them. So they may have trained better. And sure enough, you didn't see them at the track. And the coach had taken them off because they were obviously racing too hard, they were racing their and not recovering.
Lisa:Recovering. Yeah, so don't be intimidated. Because it's very easy, isn't it, when you start to doubt your own methods and your own strategies, and you haven’t done it right, and so-and-so's got it better than me, and they're more talented. And this is — all that negative self-talk, and you found a couple of guys to go, ‘Hang on, you've got this part better than they've got.’ What a great sort of mentoring thing for them to have done, to put you in that sort of good headspace. On the headspace thing, how did you deal with the doubts? Did you ever have lots of self-doubts? I mean, I know I certainly I did, where you don't feel good enough. Like you're what am I doing here? The old imposter syndrome type thing? Did that ever rear its head in your world? Or were you able to focus and...?
Rod:No, absolutely, Lisa. I mean, I would often, fortunately, I could go to John with any question. There is nothing, no stone left unturned. He was amazing. Because he sensed it too, by the way, that being that brother, playing and training. And he was very, very connected with me because he would train with me, and he would sense things. And he'd say to me, he said, ‘Oh, you’re a little bit down today, aren’t you?’ and he said, ‘What's happened?’ There are like bit of a bullying going on in school and this or that, or ‘That girl won't talk to me anymore, and I love her’ and that stuff.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.
Rod:And so he was like Marian, my mother. She was very, very on to me, too. She would sit with me and talk with me. And her mother, my grandmother, amazing, amazing people. And I will say this, right now, when my mother was 95 years old, she asked me to come and sit with her on her birthday. And she held my hand. And she said, ‘You can call me Marian from now on’. And I said, ‘Wow, this is fantastic’. And that was my mother's gift to me because I've always called her mother. I never call her mum. No. Always ‘mother’. And that relationship with my mother was very, very powerful, and it came through in my running. And John would now and again have to kind of toughen me up a little bit — that was incredible balance. So I never had anything that I had, I took to bed with me, I never had anything that I would go out.
Lisa:Get it all out.
Rod:I would say, sometimes, if you're running through the Dan Mountain Retreat. And he said, ‘I know what you get yourself wound up’. He said, ‘Stop, take your shoes off, and hug a tree.’
Lisa:These guys is just so like, what astounds me is that your mom, your brother, these good mentors and coaches that you had were so advanced. And this is the stuff that we’re talking about now, like, I'm telling my athletes to take your shoes off and go and ground yourself every day. And go hug a tree and get out in the sunlight and get away from the screens and do all these basic sort of things. But back then there wasn't that, like, there wasn't all this knowledge that we have now, and they obviously innately just nurtured. It sounds like you had the perfect nurturing environment to become the best version of yourself.
Rod:Yes, I think so, Lisa. I was very, very, — and wonderfully, even in the club, in our running club, get this, our chairman of our running club was Harold Nelson, 1948 Olympian. Our club captain was Carrie Williams, five times Australasian cross-country champion. And they took time to run with us kids. They didn't all go out and race. The club captain and Harold would come down and talk with us kids and we would run. And then, I remember Carrie Williams, when he took us for a run. And he said, ‘Right’. He said, ‘Now there's a barbed wire fence in, there's a gate’. And he said, ‘We've got the flag there and the flag there’. He said, ‘You got a choice of going over the barbed wire fence or over the gate’. He said, ‘Come on, you boys, off you go’. And of course, 9 out of 10 went over the gate. And a friend of mine, Roger Seidman and I, we went over the barbed wire. And then he said, ‘Why did you do that?’ And I said, ‘Because it was shorter.’ And they turned to the others, and he said, ‘I like his thinking’. And he said, ‘You've got to have, to jump over a barbed wire fence, you've got to have 100%, you got to have 90% confidence and 10% ability.
Lisa:And a lot of commitment. That is a good analogy.
Rod:Things like that, all started to, there's this big, big jigsaw puzzle. And all those pieces started to make sense. And I can start to build that picture. And when I started to see the picture coming, I understood what they were telling me. And once again, learn by doing — or another word, another thing that John had above my bed was a sign, ‘Don't be influenced by habits’.
Lisa:Wow, that's a good piece of advice for life. I think I might stick that on my Instagram today, Rod Dixon says.
Rod:And, of course, wonderfully, all these I've carried on with my programme that I did with the LA marathon, and bringing people from the couch to the finish line now. And when I was going through, we're putting through, I started off with five or six hundred. But I got up to over 2000 people. And basically, it's the matter that I used for my kids’ programme is, ‘Finishing is winning. Slow and steady. The tortoise won the race.’
Lisa:Well, that's definitely been my bloody life history, that's for sure. Finishing is winning and the tortoise wins the race. Yeah, if you go long enough, and everyone else has sort of stopped somewhere, and you're still going. That was my sort of philosophy, if I just keep running longer than everybody else, and whatever. Let's go now, because I'm aware of time and everything, and there's just so much to unpack here. I want to talk about the New York City Marathon because it was pretty, I mean, so you did the Olympics. Let's finish that story first, because you got bronze medal at the 1500 at the Olympics. Now, what was that like a massive, life-changing thing to get an Olympic medal? You did it four times, the first time?
Rod:I mean, my goal, and I remember, I've still got a handwritten notes of John. And our goal was to get to the sideline at the first heat. And if you can qualify for the next thing, would we give you this, that, if you're there, this is what we've worked for. And of course, and I remember 1968 again, when I was listening to my transistor radio, to the 1500 meters with Keino and Ryun, Jim Ryun, the world record holder, Kip Keino, Commonwealth champion from Edinburgh in 1970. And here he was, this incredible race, and we were absolutely going in there, listening to it, and it was incredible. And to think they said that four years later, I'm on the start line, and beside me, is Kip Keino.
Lisa:Yeah, it'd be, it’s pretty amazing.
Rod:And then the next runner to come and stand beside me was Jim Ryun, the world record holder and here I am. And I'm thinking because I don't pick it out, when we got the heats, well you've got the world record holder, silver medallist, and you've got the Olympic gold medallist in my race, and only two go through to the next leap. So I'm going for it but I never, I wasn't overwhelmed by that because John has said to me, our goal is, and I wanted to please John by meeting our goal, at least get to the next round. Well, history has shown that Jim Ryun was tripped up and fell and I finished second behind Keino to go through to the next round. And then and then of course, I won my semi-final. So, I was in the final, and this was unbelievable, it’s no doubt is –
Lisa:It’s like you’re pinching yourself, ‘Is this real?’ All that finals and the Olympics. And you ended up third on that race, on the podium, with a needle around your neck on your first attempt in a distance where the people sent you, ‘Yeah, not really suited to this tribe’.
Rod:And what was amazing is that just after we know that we've got the middle and went back to the back, and after Lillian came in into the room to congratulated me and Bill Bailey. And they said, ‘You realise that you broke Peter Snell’s New Zealand record’. And I was almost like, ‘Oh my god, I didn't mean to do that’.
Lisa:Apologising for breaking the record. Oh, my goodness. I'm sure that's just epic. And then you went on to more Olympic glory. Tell us from...
Rod:So at that stage, we went back to… New Zealand team were invited to the Crystal Palace in London for what they called the International Athletes Meet. And it was a full house, 40,000 people, and I didn't want to run the 1500 — or they didn't actually have a 1500 — they had a 3000, or two mark, this right, we had a two-mark. And that's what I wanted to run, the two mark, and that was Steve Prefontaine, the American record holder, and he just finished fourth at the Olympics. And I went out and we had a great race — unbelievable race. I won it, setting a Commonwealth and New Zealand record. He set the American record. And that was just like, now, it was just beginning to think, wow, I can actually run further than 1500.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, you can. You certainly did.
Rod:So we got invited to go back to Europe at ‘73. And so we have the called, the Pacific Conference Games in ‘73, in Toronto. So, I asked the Athletic people, ‘Can I use my ticket to Toronto, and then on to London?’ Because I had to buy—may they allow me to use that ticket. And then Dick Quax and Tony Polhill said they were going to do the same. And then we had this young guy call me, John Walker. And he said, ‘I hear you guys are going to England. And could I come with you?’ And I said, ‘Yeah’, because he didn't go to the Olympics, but he ran some great races, we thought it was heavy. And he said, ‘Now do you get me the ticket?’ And I said, ‘No, you have to get the ticket’. And he said, ‘Oh, how do I do that?’ And I said, ‘If you, can't you afford it?’, and he said, ‘Not really’. I said, have you got a car? He said, ‘Yes’. I said, ‘Well, sell it’. And he said, ‘Really?’ So he did. And my reasoning is that, ‘John, if you run well enough, you'll get your tickets back again, which means you'll be able to buy your car back again.’ And that was John...
Lisa: Put your ass on the line and forward you’re on, because this all amateur sport, back in the day. And it was hard going, like to be a world-class athlete while trying to make a living and how did you manage all of that, like, financially? How the heck did you do it?
Rod:Well, before I left in ‘73, I worked full time, eight hours a day. I did a milk run at night. I worked in a menswear store on a Friday night. And then of course, fortunately, I was able to communicate with Pekka Vasala from Finland. And he said, ‘We can get you tickets. So the thing is, get as many tickets as you can, and then you can cash them in’. Right. But then, so you get the ticket, of course, there you wouldn't get the full face of the ticket because you were cashing it in. But if you got enough to get around. And you did get expenses, double AF and those rows you're able to get per diem, what they call per diem. Yep. But by the time you came back, you kind of hopefully, you equal, you weren't in debt.
Lisa:Yeah.
Rod:Well, then you go back and comment for the Sydney Olympics. Very good friend of mine allowed us to go do shooting and we would go out every weekend and then sell with venison. Yeah. And that was giving another $100 a weekend in, into the kitty.
Lisa:Into the kid. And this is what you do, like to set, I mean, I must admit like when I represented New Zealand, so I did 24-hour racing and it's a ripe old age of 42. Finally qualifying after eight years of steps. And I qualified as a B athlete, I did 193.4 in 24 hours and I had to get to 200. I didn't make the 200, but hey, I qualified. And then we didn't even get a singlet, we, and the annoying thing in my case was that we qualified for the World Champs but they wouldn't let us go to the World Champs. And I've been trying for this for eight years before I could actually qualified. And I was desperate to go to the World Champs and then just on the day that the entries had to be in at the World Champs athletics, New Zealand athletic said, ‘Yes, you can actually go’ and I'm like, ‘Well, where am I going to pull $10,000 out of my back pocket on the day of closing?’ So I didn't get to go to the World Champs, which was really disappointing. So I only got to go to the Commonwealth Champs in England and got to represent my country, at least. Because that had been my dream for since I was a little wee girl, watching you guys do your thing. And my dad had always been, ‘You have to represent your country in something, so get your act together’. And I failed on everything. And I failed and I failed, and failed. And I was a gymnast, as a kid, it took me till I was 42 years old to actually do that and we had to buy our own singlet, we'd design our own singlets, we didn't even get that. And that was disappointing. And this is way later, obviously, this is only what 2010, 9, somewhere, I can't remember the exact date. And so, so fight, like you're in a sport that has no money. So to be able to like, still has, to become a professional at it, I managed to do that for a number of years, because I got really good at marketing. And doing whatever needed to be done — making documentaries, doing whatever, to get to the races. So like, even though I was like a generation behind you guys, really, it's still the same for a lot of sports. It's a hard, rough road and you having to work full time and do all this planning. But a good life lessons, in a way, when you have to work really hard to get there. And then you don't take it for granted.
Now, I really want to talk about the New York City Marathon. Because there’s probably like, wow, how the heck did you have such a versatile career from running track and running these, short distances? It's super high speeds, to then be able to contemplate even doing a marathon distance. I mean, the opposite ends of the scale, really. How did that transition happen?
Rod:Yeah, I think from ‘73, ‘74, I realised that John Walker's and then Filbert Bayi and some of these guys were coming through from the 800,000 meters. And so I knew, at that stage, it was probably a good idea for me to be thinking of the 5000 meters. So that was my goal in 75 was to run three or four 5000 meters, but still keep my hand in the 1500. Because that was the speed that was required for 5000. You realise that when I moved to 5000, I was definitely the fastest miler amongst them, and that gave me a lot of confidence, but it didn't give me that security to think that they can't do it too.
So I kept running, the 800s, 1500s as much as I could, then up to 3000 meters, then up to five, then back to 3000, 1500 as much as I can. And that worked in ‘75. So then we knew that programme, I came back to John with that whole synopsis. And then we playing for ‘76 5000 meters at the Montreal Olympics. Pretty well, everything went well. I got viral pneumonia three weeks before the Olympics.
Lisa:Oh my gosh. Didn’t realise that.
Rod:Haven’t talked about this very much, it just took the edge off me.
Lisa:It takes longer than three weeks to get over pneumonia
Rod:And I was full of antibiotics, of course. It might have been four weeks but certainly I was coming right but not quite. Yeah. So the Olympics ‘76 was a disappointment. Yeah, finishing fourth. I think the listeners set behind the first.
Lisa:Pretty bloody good for somebody who had pneumonia previously.
Rod:Then I went back to Europe. And then from that point on, I didn't lose a race. And in fact, in ‘76, I won the British 1500 meters at Sebastian Coe and Mo Crafter, and Grand Cayman, and those guys. So, then I focused everything really on the next couple of years, I’m going to go back to cross-country. And I'm going to go back to the Olympics in 1980 in Moscow, this is going to be the goal. And as you know, Lisa, we, New Zealand joined the World Cup. And we were actually in Philadelphia, on our way to the Olympics, when Amelia Dyer came up to John Walker, and I said, ‘Isn’t it just disappointing, you're not going to the Olympics’. And I look at John and go...
Lisa:What the heck are you talking about?
Rod:No, and we don't? New Zealand joined the boycott. So at that stage, they said, ‘Look, we've still got Europe, we can still go on, we can still race’. And I said, ‘Well, I'm not going to Europe. I'm not going to go to Europe and run races against the people who are going to go to the Olympics. What? There's nothing in that for me’. And I said, ‘I heard there's a road race here in Philadelphia next weekend. I'm going to stay here. I'm going to go and run that road race. And then I'll probably go back to New Zealand’.
Well, I went out and I finished third in that road race against Bill Rogers, the four-time Boston, four-time New York Marathon winner, Gary Spinelli, who was one of the top runners and I thought, ‘Wow, I can do this’. And so, I called John, and we started to talk about it. And he said, ‘Well, you really don't have to do much different to what you've been doing. You've already got your base, you already understand that your training pyramid’. He says, ‘You've got to go back and do those periodisation… Maybe you still got to do your track, your anaerobic work.’ And he said, ‘And then just stepping up to 10,000 meters is not really that difficult for you’.
So, I started experimenting, and sure enough, that started to come. And in those days, of course, you could call every day and go through a separate jar. I had a fax machine, faxing through, and then slowly but surely, I started to get the confidence that I could run 15k. And then I would run a few 10 milers, and I was winning those. And then of course, then I would run a few races, which is also bit too much downhill for me, I'm not good on downhill. So I'll keep away from those steps to select. And then I started to select the races, which were ranked, very high-ranked, so A-grade races. And then I put in some B-grade races and some C. So, I bounced them all around so that I was not racing every weekend, and then I started to get a pattern going. And then of course, I was able to move up to, as I said, 10 mile. And I thought now I'm going to give this half marathon a go. So, I ran the half marathon, I got a good sense from that. And then, I think at the end of that first year, I came back rank number one, road racing. And so then I knew what to do for the next year. And then I worked with the Pepsi Cola company, and they used to have the Pepsi 10K races all around the country. And so I said, I’d like to run some of these for you, and do the PR media. And that took me away from the limelight races.
And so, I would go and do media and talk to the runners and run with the runners and then race and win that. And I got funding for that, I got paid for that because I was under contract. And so I was the unable to pick out the key races for the rest of the set. And then slowly but surely, in 82, when I ran the Philadelphia half marathon and set the world record — that's when I knew, when I finished, I said, ‘If I turn around, could you do that again?’ And I said, ‘Yes’. I didn't tell anybody because that would be a little bit too —
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Praising yourself.
Rod:So I just thought I'd make an honest assessment myself. And when I talked to John, he said, ‘How?’ and I said, ‘Yes, I couldn't’. And he said, ‘Well then, we’re going to look at that’.
Lisa:We got some work to do.
Rod:He said, ‘What we will do in 1982, you're going to come back and you're going to run the Pasta Marathon in Auckland, and that was going to be my trial. And Jack Foster was trying to be the first 50-year-old to break 2:20. So, I got alongside Jack and I said, ‘Now this is my first marathon. What do I do?’ And he said, ‘I see all these runners going out there and warming up and I don't want to run 29 miles...
Lisa:For the marathon? I need to do some extra miles warmup.
Rod:‘Use the first mile as a warmup, just run with me’. I said, ‘That'll do me’. So, I went out and ran with Jack and then we time in, started down to Iraq, and we're going through Newmarket. And he said, ‘I think it's time for you to get up there with the leaders’. He said, ‘You're looking at people on the sidewalk. You're chatting away as if it's a Sunday run. You’re ready to go’. I said, ‘You're ready?’ and he said, ‘Yeah, go’. And so, alright, because this is Jack Foster.
Lisa:Can't leave him.
Rod:1974 at 42 years old. Jack said, ‘You can climb Mount Everest,’ I would do it. Yeah. So, I got up with the leaders and join them and out to Mission Bay. And on my way back, and I was running with Kevin Ryun, he who is also one of our legends from runners. And Kevin, he said, ‘We're in a group of four or five’. And he said, he came out, he said, ‘Get your ass out of here’. I said, ‘What do you mean?’ He said, ‘You're running too easy. Make you break now.’ So I said, ‘Yes. Kevin’.
Lisa:Yes, Sir, I’m off.
Rod:So I ran one that and then that was when I talked with John, that was going to be the guidelines that maybe not another one this year, but certainly look at 83 as running a marathon at some point.
Lisa:How did you work the pacing? Like going from such a shorter distances and then you’re going into these super long distances, where you're pacing and you're fuelling and all that sort of thing comes into it. Was it a big mind shift for you? Like not just sprint out of the gate, like you would in, say, 1500, the strategies are so very different for anything like this.
Rod:Certainly, those memories of running with the marathon boys in 72. And I went back to Dave McKenzie and Jack Foster and talked to them about what it takes. And then, John, my brother, John was also too, very, very in tune with them, and he knew all the boys, and so we started to talk about how it would be. And he said, ‘So I want you to do, I want you to go back to doing those long Abel Tasman runs. I want you to do those long road aerobic runs, and just long and slow.’ And he said, ‘I don't want you going out there with your mates racing it. I want you to just lay that foundation again.’ And he said, ‘You’ve already done it’, he said, ‘It's just a natural progression for you’.
So it was just amazing, because it just felt comfortable. And at that time, I was living in Redding, Pennsylvania, and I would be running out or out through the Amish country and the farms and roads, they're just horse and cats.
Lisa:Awesome.
Rod:I had this fabulous forest, Nolde Forest, which is a state park. And I could run on there for three hours and just cross, but I wouldn't run the same trails. I mean, you'd run clockwise or anti-clockwise, so. And then, but I kept — I still kept that track mentality and still did my training aerobically but I didn't do it on the track. Fortunately, the spar side, they had a road that was always closed off only for emergencies. And it was about a three-mile road. And so, I asked if I could put a little pin markers with some tape, and I knew that there was 200, 400, 600, 800. And I would do my anaerobic work in this trail, not going to the track point. And then I would do the odd time trial at the track, but that was only maybe once a month, I would do any track work. And if I was doing it, if I did, wanted to do 2 by 1 mile, I do one mile, counterclock and one mile clockwise. And I could run within about 10 seconds either way.
Lisa:Wow. So, you really got your pacing down. And then, when did you set your sights on doing the New York Marathon?
Rod:It was interesting, Lisa, because in ‘82, I actually went to the World Cross Country. And I realised that I ran ‘71, ‘73, 1980. And I realised that if I was going to run marathons, I got to get back to my cross-country mentality.
So, I went to the World Cross Country in ‘82, in Rome. And I remember we always just sit around and Fred Lebow, the legend of New York City. Of course, he had heard about my marathon on in New Zealand, and he said, ‘It's time for you to run New York’. I said, ‘I don’t think so. I don't think so.’ Because Boston, London, and San Francisco all wanted me to run a marathon then. I wanted to go and have a look at the course. So Chris Brasher brought me into London. I had a look at the course, I quite liked the course in London. San Francisco was fascinating, because I love the hills, but I didn't like the downhill, so.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah. It was a no-go there.
Rod:And Boston was too much downhill from Heartbreak. So really, I looked at New York, and I thought New York was going to be probably my best marathon course. I had to connect to it emotionally, physically, spiritually and mentally. So, it was ticking all those boxes for me. So, ‘82, at the World Cross Country, I said to Fred, ‘Look, Fred, I will commit to running New York. But it won't be this year, because we've got 40 more races this year. I will look at 1983, and if I run one, I'm pretty sure to be New York’. And he said, ‘Well, how do I put that all together?’ And I said, ‘Well, I'll tell you what, if I have a medal here at the World Cross Country, be it first, second or third, I will run the New York Marathon’. And I thought to myself, I'm just saying that. Wow. I mean, I'm out again to the finishing third. I was coming out into the finishing, there’s somebody standing right in the middle of the finishing, and I thought, ‘What the hell are you're doing there?’. And as I got closer, it was Fred.
Lisa:You're coming out.
Rod:And I said, it would be 1983, Fred. So, I made the commitment to him then. I said, ‘I will come to New York Marathon in ‘82 and watch, and get a feeling of what is it all about and course notes’. And that was when Gomez and Salazar had this unbelievable race and right down to the finish line. And I remember I went out, ran on the Central Park the next morning, Monday morning. And I came across the finish line and I stood there — and of course, it was so weird, but it’s like a visual warning.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, visual.
Rod:And I look up and I go, ‘This is me, I can see myself here’.
Lisa:You're visualising getting yourself ready.
Rod:And it was funny because I know Arnold, Arnold would say, when I said Arnold, and I stood there and I get, ‘I’ll be back’.
Lisa:I'll be back. And you were definitely back. So the following year, you spend this year preparing solely for New York?
Rod:Yes, I came back to New Zealand and, and I did a few, I think it was called the pastor series of races, we did a few road races. And that was about mainly to come back to New Zealand for summer training and preparation. And then when I went back, I said, by this stage I had my whole schedule, and this was the first time in my life, they said, that I actually had a programme designed for one race. And that was going to be, no, these races here in between were part of that journey.
Lisa:Build-up races.
Rod:Over a hundred races. And so, and John said, ‘If you're going to be serious about this, you've got to train. No distractions, you focus’. And what was incredible is when I committed to that first day, I felt, and I said, ‘Been hugely influenced by Sir Edmund Hillary in my life and set the Mount Everest —’
Lisa:Yeah, that’s your base camps.
Rod:Yeah. And so here I was now, for the first time my life, kind of like blinkers on.
Lisa:Tunnel vision. One thing. You gotta get up this mountain.
Rod:Going in and writing that diary every day. And it didn't become obsessive, but it became very, very much my goal orientation. And what was, I could see each month is that I was going up the mountain. I was climbing up. I wasn't having those fallbacks, and I just kept going and the blocks would building that improvement.
Lisa: Ugh, you must have incredible endurance, man. Yeah, and you've got a decade or more of actual base behind you now and experience at racing at this high level, and everything was sort of coming together.
Rod:It was. It was incredible. And the time trials. And I remember I said to my brother, John, I called my brother, ‘You've got a 3000 meter time trial for me here.’ But I said, ‘I wanted run the mile’. And he said, ‘What's your reasoning?’ And I said, ‘I don’t know, John. Everything is right. Everything is done. I've done it. I've got all the texts, everything, all the ducks in a row’. And he said, ‘So what's the draw?’ And I said, ‘I don’t know. It just goes back to ‘72, I guess. It goes back to the Magic of The Mile. It goes back to snow. It goes back to Bannister; it goes back to Lovelock’. I said, ‘It's all part of my journey’. And he said, ‘Good boy, go out and run that mile. So, I went to the biker High School track. I had my mate come with me. And I said, ‘I’ll warm up. And when I'm ready, I will let you know. And you click the watch. Don't get me splits. I'm just going to go out there and run feeling base’. Now, I said, ‘I’ll come back’. And I said, ‘Don't call out the time, I will come to you, and that's when you tell me the time’.
I went out there and I did everything as I would have done in the 70s. And I came, and I ran. And I felt just right. And I came across the line, and of course, I came over to him and I said — he said, ‘What do you think you ran?’ I said, ‘I ran very close to it 4’1, 4’2, I think. Maybe. Yeah’. And he said, How about 3’58.6? Well, I said, ‘That’s it. Nothing has to be done’.
Lisa:Sub 4 minute and you're preparing for a marathon. So that's just insane. So we're going to have to wrap up in a few minutes. So we're going to get to the actual bloody — the day of the race. And I was really reading one of your articles, and you were talking about you didn't go the elite athletes’ limos that they put on. You went in the public transport, what was all that about?
Rod:Well, all those years, with the runners, and very few of them I would go. What was this teaching? It’s only a race, it's not the end of life.
Lisa:It could have changed the side.
Rod:And I will bet, because I went to the Expo, and I saw the enthusiasm and I saw everything going on. And I just was fascinated by all these people. And I just did my first marathon, really international marathon, and I was fascinated. And Fred said, ‘Well, the limo will pick you up’. And I said. ‘No. I’m going out on the bus’. He said, ‘Oh. You can’t go on the bus’. I said, ‘I’m going’. And I did and I liked it, because there are coffee drinkers and bagel eaters.
Lisa:On the way to the marathon.
Rod:And I just listened to this and I laughed all the way out.
Lisa:And they had no idea who was sitting next to them, really. That's classic. So, did you do that to protect your mindset really? So you would not see the other guys? Or just because you wanted to be one of the crew and see?
Rod:I just thought, this is about me. It's not about anybody.
Lisa:Yeah, that's a good lesson for everything guys — just block out everybody else and do your thing. So now you're at the start line of the New York Marathon. How did the day go? We know the outcome, but spoiler alert.
Rod:They were there. Of course I actually set my time, my goal at 2009 laps.
Lisa:Yep. Same for me. I just can’t.
Rod:So I put my information down, I didn't have watches or anything. And so, I did my 5-mile split, my 10-mile split, my 13-mile split, my 18- mile split, and my 23-mile split. So those were my splits and that's what I kind of wanted to go through. And it was, once again, Lisa, don't be influenced by others. So, I went out there, running my race within a race. And I stayed with these splits, and it was amazing. The first five mile, I went through within two seconds.
Lisa:Wow. You had such a expertise now at this — yep.
Rod:10 miles, I was two seconds, and of course, you look down and you look at the clock and you go, ‘Whoa’. So you getting a shot of adrenaline every time.
Lisa:You’re setting your mark. Yeah.
Rod:The leaders were ahead of me. But I had to blink it, I didn't care.
Lisa:You didn’t care.
Rod:Once again, don't be influenced by others. Run your own race.
Lisa:So such gold lessons you're sharing here.
Rod:And it is just amazing and that's how it just progressed. And of course, coming off the Verrazano Bridge onto the First Avenue, and the roar of the crowd was just incredible. I mean, every hair on my body stood out, it was so exciting. And so I could see the leaders out and I was slowly catching some of them. And then, of course, I knew where the leader was because of the lead car with the flashing lights. So, I couldn't quite see him, but I could see like where he was and people were calling out, ‘Oh, you’re two minutes behind’. I go, that's not two minutes. ‘Oh, you only 20 seconds behind’. So you can't be influenced by–
Lisa:No, don't listen to them.
Rod:Once again, back to my goals. And then I came, I remember about 20 miles, I came around with quite, and it was starting to rain now. And I was where I created three pair of shoes, a very slick shoe, an intermediate, and a fur wick leather shoe and I went for the intermediate. Given it was going to rain hard. What was happening is when it starts to rain in New York City, the oil is on the road.
Lisa:Very slick. Yeah.
Rod:Quite slick. And the white lines are even more, it was like ice. So, I had to be very careful where I was going. And of course, you'd see the road and you'll be running and you’ve a bit of a pothole and you go down. So I was very careful. And I came around one corner and I just slipped a little bit and felt my hamstring twinge. So, I had to slow down, short my stride, and wonderfully, I was able to just do some acupressure. And a couple of times, I didn't quite get it but I got one with just, you could feel the whole release. Oh my gosh.
Lisa:That was lucky. That doesn’t usually happen, you usually like struggling for, like, ‘Aw aw’.
Rod:And then, of course, at that point 20 to 23, that little, short roads, and of course, I’d come around a corner looking up and there's nothing there. So, out of sight out of mind, and then I'll come around another corner, and just see them and they'd go around the corner. And then once we got into Central Park, it was a bit more open and I could see him.
Lisa:You can see where he was. Were you at second place at this point?
Rod:Yes, I was now on the second. And now I'm not very good at math. I wasn’t good at math. At school, I got 23%, the teacher said he gave me 3% because I spelled my name right. What I do understand is that I'm getting the times and where he is in the miles, and I think I'm going to run out a distance here, I’m catching him at three seconds.
Lisa:So, he's 20 seconds in.
Rod:He's got to slow down. And I thought well, I can't really rely on him slowing down. So what else can I do? And I thought to myself, I've got to start running the shortest route. I've got to start running my tangents. And so the good thing is what I did see is that he was still — and in those days they had the blue line for the mountain — it was in the middle of the road. And he was —
Lisa:He was running the blue line.
Rod:So, I realise that I've got, in my mind, I have another 30, 40 corners. And if I could pick him up one- or two-seconds.
Lisa:One meters, two meters, yep.
Rod:This is the minute hand. Don’t try and go any faster, stay within your rhythm. Don't think anything more than just running the tangents and running and staying within your ability. And then slowly but surely another corner and I can see us catching. Slowly, and then there’s a bit of a rise up to Columbus Circle. And I noticed, he was in the middle of the road which is the apex of a high steep low. And I sat down low, and I kept my arms more short on my stride, leap more into it. I didn't look like a runner; I'd look like a mountaineer. And I got up into Columbus Circle and into the park, and here he was, he was only 100 yards ahead of me. And so, then I realised, I wonder if he is actually waiting for me to catch him before he speeds out.
So, I was kept and I realised he was still in the middle way and here's this nice turn, right turn. I went down through the apex and as soon as I got along his peripheral, I ran as hard as I could, so that he got the shock.
Lisa:He got a shock because you were like just suddenly and powerfully going past him.
Rod:Yes and he wasn’t looking around either, too. I mean, motor racing, they have side mirrors so they can see what's going on behind.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah. You guys can’t.
Rod:Now again, I would always go around the corner and just glance back, I want to know what's going on. So he wasn't looking around, he wasn't really running the tangents. So, I realised that these are pluses for me, and it’s the game of plus and minus.
Lisa:And you're just like — like I love this mentality of like what can I do in the situation where I cannot go faster? What can I do to stay, because a lot of people would break at that point, like he's 100 meters ahead of me. I’ve only got the sun, not going to make it. And you've got that negative self-talk going on. You obviously you're like, ‘Ooh, what can I do here?’ So your brain obviously goes to where’s the around-the-obstacle solution here? What can I do? That's brilliant.
Rod:So, I learned all that in my road racing that I knew that sometimes you just can't run away from people but you can find out their vulnerable moment. And when they would come into a hill they would hesitate because they look up the hill and that's when you try and get five or six ahead of them, while they try to figure out. Then you do those things and then so, I would always, if I got 100 yards or 50 yards on a runner, I’d say, ‘Right. Now settle back down again. You got that quite easy. I did that and I spent 20% of my energy to get back, I’m going to make you spend 80% to get it back’. So, I've let them come back up to me and then I would go again and that would mentally —
Lisa:Bust them.
Rod:So, I was able to play with things.
Lisa:That’s gold.
Rod:And when I sometimes I’d be running and I would say, ‘Okay I’m going to run this. They’re expecting me to run this tangent but actually I’m not going to do that because that tangent takes you up a little bit of a hill. I'm going to go a little bit longer around here but it's not as steep so I can maintain the speed better rather than slowing down then speed up.’
Lisa:Wow, you’re the master at strategy, yay.
Rod:They would come with me and then I’d go back and they come with me. And I realised they’re doing exactly what I want them to do — they're running my race, you're not going to get my race.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you've got this all sussed for your particular set of talents and skills. And so coming down that last, but there were, you’ve got them in your sights now, what was that feeling like? Did you have that feeling ‘I’m going to do this. I've got this guy’ and did you break him as you went past him?
Rod:Well I think, I knew that everything I’d been thinking and doing and planning on running was, they got me to this point. Now I’ve got to kind of shock him or give him something that can affect. If you watch the tape, when I do go past, he threw his head back. Now, I didn't see that but I sensed he got a fright. And then of course, the next turn, it’s 150 meters, but I was running scared.
Lisa:Psychologically, you’ve broken someone.
Rod:Was he going to come back for me? I just had a lot slight glance, we did the right turn and I could see that, and I saw the finish line, I said, ‘He’s not going to get me between here and there’. And of course, I’m full of adrenaline, that this is amazing.
Lisa:You’re just over. Coming he's got that psychological brokenness of seeing you slide past where he's led the race the whole way. That’s harsh. That’s harsh.
Rod:I turned around, I looked at the finish line, I said, wow I’m the first person from Verrazano Bridge to here.
Lisa:Wow. Amazing.
Rod:So of course, across the line and I went down on my knee and of course, kissed it down. And I said, ‘I was here this time last year saying I'll be back’.
Lisa:Yeah. And here you are, you’ll be back. And did that change your life? Like to win New York's just pretty like, next level really.
Rod:To put the disappointment of ‘76 into perspective, the disappointment at the 1980 boycott, and I just, and I realised, and really, Marian, my mother, had said that sometimes things won't happen the way you want them sometimes. You're watching this, but your time will come at another point or another time. And I realised then what she was saying when I had won New York, that that was my defining moment, it just took longer than other people.
Lisa:Wow. That's a pretty big defining moment, not many people get to have a life like you've led, Rod. And I do feel like we probably need a bit of a second session because we haven't even gotten to the work that you've done, which is I really want to share about the kids marathon project and all the other stuff, the couch… What's the name of the couch programme that you had?
Rod:After the finish line? Yeah.
Lisa:Yeah. That’s the one, yeah. And to share a little bit of that and the work that you've been doing since then because I think that would be an important topic in themselves. But we're going to have to wrap it up to that for today. I've got a mum out there that’s like banging around, giving me signs that I need to go and take her out. So, get her to her training.
So Rod, thank you so much for your time today for your insights, your wisdom, and sharing such an exciting ride. I think the listeners have been going up on the up and downs with you the whole way. And say hi to your amazing brother, John, I think what an incredible person to do all that with you. So, thanks very much, Rod.
Rod:Thank you for your inspiration to me too, by the way.
Lisa:I haven't done anything.
Rod:Yes, you have. I can feel it. I can sense it straight away.
Lisa:It's amazing. Very, very different athletes with very, very different skill sets and very different genetics. But we both love running and we both understand the power of running to change the world. And I think we can probably very much align on that.
Rod:Absolutely we do, Lisa. Thank you for your time and I've enjoyed every second. Every second.
Lisa:Thanks, Rod.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team atlisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
08 Mar 2018
Ep 59: Charlie Engle - Ultramarathon legend, ran across the entire sahara in 111 days
01:10:49
Charlie Engles is definitely one of my all time great heroes. His life has not been without it's dramas and failures but he is undoubtedly one of the strongest human beings of our times in mind and body.
He is one of the most accomplished ultramarathon runners in the world and author of the riveting memoir Running Man. Engle has a track record of winning or placing in many of the toughest endurance foot races across the globe. He has raced in jungles, summited high ranging mountains and volcanoes, and traversed large expanses of deserts through sand storms. Among his most notable races in the United States is the Badwater Ultramarathon which he has run 7 times placing usually in the top 5.
Beginning in the 1990s into the early 2000s, Engle competed in the Eco-Challenge series put on by Mark Burnett (the creator of the wildly popular CBS television series, Survivor). The Eco-Challenge took Engle to Borneo, New Zealand, and Vietnam. The list of Engle's international races is long, but he is most well known for running across the Sahara Desert, from coast to coast, in 2007. Engle's historic and record setting journey was documented in the film Running the Sahara, narrated by Matt Damon. He was joined by two other runners: Ray Zahab of Canada and Kevin Lin of Taiwan. This transcontinental run through deep sand and politically unstable countries remains one of the premier accomplishments in the ultrarunning sport. The runners completed over 4,500 miles, averaging over two marathons per day, for 111 consecutive days.
Engle's motivation to run and tackle adventure to such extreme lengths stems from his battle with addiction to drugs and alcohol. Sober since July 23, 1992, he has credited a large part of his sobriety to the purposeful devotion and emotional release he experiences while running.
We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
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Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Understanding the Risks of Extreme Sports and Ultra Running with Eugene Bingham
00:54:23
Whether you are a beginner or experienced ultramarathon runner, you need to be well-prepared for every run you do. Ultra running has its bright side — the uplifting community, the sense of accomplishment, and the goals of becoming stronger. However, there are certain risks involved in the sport, and as an athlete, you need to keep yourself informed.
In this episode, Eugene Bingham joins me to explain the dangers of extreme sports and marathons. We share personal stories about the damage it could do to the body — experiences that should serve as a warning to runners. Eugene also discusses things to be aware of before and during races that can endanger us, giving us five specific tips for preparation and self-management.
Don’t miss this episode and learn more about the risks of and preparations for ultra running and other extreme sports!
If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, pleasebook a consultation here.
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My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research, and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
[04:01] The Dangers of Extreme Sports and Ultramarathons
Eugene participated in the 2020 Tarawera 100-mile race where an experienced runner died.
The runner’s death certificate showed that he had a multi-organ failure, acute respiratory distress syndrome, and rhabdomyolysis.
However, it was difficult to pinpoint the true cause of death since it can be a result of accumulated health conditions.
[09:50] What IsRhabdomyolysis?
Rhabdomyolysis, or muscle breakdown, is quite common for runners.
As the muscle breaks down, myoglobin from the muscle is released into the bloodstream, clogging the kidneys.
It can be difficult to tell when this happens since symptoms can be easily mistaken for simple muscle soreness.
This can happen to everyone, not just those who do extreme sports and ultra running.
[16:27] Importance of Self-Management
At some point, we have to ask ourselves if the damage we’re doing to our body is worth it.
There are risks, and you have to be prepared for them.
There is a culture of not quitting unless you’re taken by the ambulance. However, we have to listen to our body before it gets to that point.
[20:19] Mental Toughness and Listening to Your Body
As we grow, our physical abilities and mental maturity changes. Accept that the body may not be able to take what it could years ago.
The goal of pushing your limits is good but keep in mind that you also need to train and prepare yourself.
Being mentally tough also means knowing when to stop and rest.
[22:53] Ultra Running: 5 Tips to Remember
Do not take drugs like ibuprofen and Voltaire.
Drink when you’re thirsty and do not over drink.
Be prepared for a range of weather conditions.
The race does not end at the finish line. Replenish yourself after every race.
Look out for each other.
[28:08] Always Have Support
Eugene shares his experience of having hallucinations but was kept safe by his companions.
Form connections and friendships with the people you meet in races. They are bonds that last forever.
Listen to the full episode to hear Eugene and Lisa share more stories about how people have helped them during races!
[38:33] Conditions to Be Aware of
We need to be careful about dehydration.
Symptoms of hyponatremia (having low sodium levels in your blood) are swelling, nausea, and lightheadedness.
Low levels of potassium and electrolyte imbalance can result in tetany seizures.
Electrolyte tablets are beneficial — make sure they have all the nutrients you need.
Having no appetite after a race is dangerous. We need to replenish our bodies straight away.
[47:10] Risks Are Exponential
When you exponentially increase the distance you run, you exponentially increase our risks as well.
All races are relative to pace. Never underestimate a race by distance.
Take every race like a big deal and don’t become complacent.
Recovery after a race is also crucial. Don’t succumb to peer pressure and sign up for a race immediately after.
[51:53] Quick Checklist
Do not expect that you can do it just because you’ve done it once before.
Be aware of conditions such as rhabdomyolysis, heat stroke, hyponatremia, dehydration, seizures, electrolyte imbalances, and breaking ankles.
Plan well — note altitudes and paths.
Running is just like driving. Driving is considered dangerous but we don’t avoid it; we just take extra measures and precautions to make sure that we are safe.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘People need to be really conscious of the risks — they need to be prepared to put the time in. You've got to prepare your body and you've got to know your body’.
‘Having lined up at the start line with someone who didn't make it home — that really reinforces that these are real risks and you have to be prepared for them’.
‘The race doesn't end at the finish. Some of the most dangerous time is after that: when people get to the finish line and drive home, they're tired — you can crash easily’.
‘Sometimes there's a bit of competition, isn't there. But, number one, you've got to look out for each other. You are comrades — you've got to have each other's backs’.
‘It is incredible, those connections you make. Even if you don't see each other again, but yes, you've got that bond. That's forever’.
‘Take those precautions. Just be a bit careful. We want to push ourselves. Yes, we want to be out there. Yes, we want to find new limits, but we also want to get back home’.
‘Respect the distance. You cannot run something like this without respecting it’.
About Eugene Bingham
Eugene Bingham is a senior journalist atStuff, co-host of the Dirt Church Radio trail running podcast with his mate Matt Rayment and an ultramarathon runner. In a career of almost 30 years, he’s reported and produced news and current affairs, winning multiple awards as an investigative journalist. His work has taken him to three Olympic Games, and a number of countries including Afghanistan, the Philippines and the Pacific.
No matter where he goes, he always packs his running shoes. He has a marathon PB of 2h 43m and his longest event is the Tarawera Ultra 100-mile race which he ran in February 2020. Eugene is married to journalist Suzanne McFadden and they have two grown-up boys.
Have questions you’d like to ask? You can reach Eugene at hisemail.
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Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be aware of the dangers of extreme sports and ultra running.
Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host, Lisa Tamati. Brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of Pushing the Limits. Today, I have journalist and ultramarathon running legend, Eugene Bingham, to guest. And Eugene is the host of the podcast, Dirt Church Radio, which I hope you guys are listening to. It's a really fascinating insight into the world of running and trail running. And he has a really unique style, him and his friend, Matt Raymond, run their podcast. So I hope you enjoy this interview.
Today we're talking about the dangers of extreme sports, not just ultramarathon running, but doing—pushing your body to the limits. While, you know I'm definitely a proponent of going hard and mental toughness and pushing the body and all that sort of good stuff. We also need to know about the downside. We also need to know about the risks. And recently there was a death, unfortunately, at the Tarawera Ultramarathon of a very experienced ultramarathon runner. And so we're going to dive into some of the dangers and some of the things that need to be aware of when it comes to pushing the body to the limits. And so you have an informed consent and an understanding of what you're getting into when you're doing these sorts of things.
Before we head over to the show, though, please give them a rating, review to the show if you enjoy the content. Really, really appreciate the comments and the reviews and if you can do that oniTunes, or wherever you're listening, that would be really, really appreciated. And if you haven't sold your Christmas stocking yet, please head over to my shop and check out my books,Running Hot, which is chronicling all my running adventures in my early days,Running to Extremes. Both of those books bestsellers, and my new book,Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds, which is really a book about overcoming incredible obstacles, the mindset that's required, the stuff that I learned while I was running and how it helped in this very real world situation, facing a very dire situation within the family. I hope you enjoy those books and if you have read them, please reach out to me, give me a review. Again, if you can, I'd really appreciate that you can reach me atlisa@lisatamati.com.
And just a reminder too, we are still taking on a few people, on one on one health optimization coaching, if you're wanting to optimise your health, whether it be with a difficult health challenge, that you're not getting answers to mainstream health and you're wanting some help navigating the difficult waters that can sometimes be, please reach out to us. And we deal with some very intricate cases. And I have a huge network of people that I work with that we can also refer you out to. I am not a doctor, but I am a health optimisation coach and an epigenetics coach. And we use all of the things that we've spent years studying to help people navigate and advocate for them, and connect them to the right places.
And this is a very different type of health service if you like and it's quite high touch and it's quite getting into the nitty gritty and being a detective basically. And I'm really enjoying this type of work and helping people whether it be with head injuries, with strokes, with cancer journeys, thyroid problems, or all these types of issues. Not that we have it or every answer there is under the sun. But we're very good at being detectives working out what's going on and referring you to the right places where required. So if you're interested in that, please reach out to uslisa@lisatamati.com. Right, now over to the show with Eugene Bingham.
Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to the show. I have Eugene Bingham. I know he's so famous, he actually sit down with me to record this session. So fantastic to have you here. Right? How are you doing?
Eugene Bingham:I'm very well, thank you. And thank you for having me on. Such an honour.
Lisa:Fantastic. Yes. Well, I was lucky to be on your show. And you've been on mine, and we just really connected. So I wanted to get you back on because you've just written an article, which was very, I thought was an important one to discuss. And it was about the tragic death of an ultrarunner last year or this year in the Tarawera Ultramarathon. And while we don't want to go too deep into the specifics of that particular case or we'd like to know what you know about it...
Eugene:Sure.
Lisa:...but wanted to have a discussion around the dangers of extreme sport or ultramarathon running and some of the things we just need to be aware of. So, obviously Eugene and I—neither of us are doctors or any of this should be construed as medical advice, but just as—have to give them out there...
Eugene:Absolutely.
Lisa:But as runners and people who have experienced quite a lot in the running scene, and I've certainly experienced enough drama, that it is something that we need to talk about. So Eugene, tell us a little bit about what happened? And what are you happy to share
Eugene:Sure.
Lisa:...and what you wrote about in your article, which we will link to in the show notes, by the way.
Eugene:Yes. Thank you. Sure. Yes, so I was a competitor in the Tarawera hundred mile race in February, which as you said—when you said last year, it does feel like last year, doesn't it? Oh gosh, it feels like it was five years ago. But it was February 2020, all those years ago. And in that race was sort of about 260 of us lined up. And then that race was a runner an older—oh, he’s 52. So from Japan, a very experienced runner, had run Tarawera previously, had run lots of other miles, and ultraraces. And unfortunately, about a kilometre or so from the finish, he collapsed, and about 34 hours into the race. And although people rushed to help them, and he was taken to retro hospital, and eventually to Auckland City Hospital, he died. And I remember, I remember the afternoon we heard about it, and Tarawera put it up on its Facebook page to let us all know that one of our fellow runners had died and I stopped. It was a shock.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:You know we do this thing, because we love it.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:And because we get enjoyment from it. And he was someone who paid the ultimate price.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:So I—we're a couple of hats, and one of them is a journalist, and so I—but really, what first kicked in was, I really want to know what happened. I really wanted to know what happened. I've had health issues myself, had a few scares and so on. A few wobbles and races, and I thought—just from my point of view, I was really curious to find out. But I also thought it was important to find out for other runners...
Lisa:Yes, absolutely.
Eugene:...or say, I listen for others. And so I started to see if I could find out. COVID got the way a little bit and distracted me. But eventually I did manage to track down what happened there. Yes.
Lisa:And what was the result of the findings in this particular case? I mean, we're gonna want to discuss a few.
Eugene:Sure.
Lisa:I think, in this case, it was a couple of things, wasn't it? But this is without picking—and we're certainly not picking on anybody or any, not race, or anything or saying this is bad or anything. But what was it that you discovered in it?
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:So with that, research.
Eugene:Sure. So initially, I remember the talk was that he might have had a stroke, or there might have been some sort of underlying condition.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:But I got a hold of his death certificate and it shows that he had multiorgan failure, and acute respiratory distress syndrome, which are both conditions that they can be in multiple causes of those sorts of things. But the one that jumped out to me was Rhabdo. You're gonna make me say that? The proper name for it.
Lisa:Rhabdomyolysis
Eugene:Thank you.
Lisa:I'm an expert in rhabdo.
Eugene:So yes, that was the third one on the list. And that was the one that really jumped out at me.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Months earlier, I'd spoken to Dr Marty Hoffman, who's in a University of California Davis in the States, and he's sort of recognised around the world. Basically, if there's an ultra—there's a paper about medicine involving ultrarunning, you'll find Marty Hoffman's name on it, he knows this stuff.
So I'd run to him months ago, at the suggestion of a friend, Dr John Onate, and I had a good chat with him. And he sort of ran through the list of what we could be looking at here, but he was really—it was a stab in the dark at that point. But he told me then that they’re hipping no deaths from rhabdo, knowing deaths from rhabdo from ultrarunners.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Yes. And no knowing deaths from ultrarunners of the AH, exhausted and just talking it, ‘How can I train you’?
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:So we were kind of that, like, ‘What could it be’? Yes. So when rhabdo appeared on the desk fit, I rang him back and said—I actually emailed him and said, ‘Hey, this is what it says’. And he was very surprised because he keeps track of deaths of ultrarunners around the world. And as he said, there hadn't been one recorded before, doesn't mean there hasn't been one, of course.
Lisa:Yes, it doesn't mean.
Eugene:It's just no one, yes, no one knows what causes.
Lisa:And I think a lot of these things will have contributing factors in—completely unrelated but going through the journey with my dad recently it was at the end, he had multiple organ failure.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:He had sepsis however, and before that he had an abdominal aneurysm.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:So it shows the progression like it. What did he actually die off?
Eugene:Yes. Yes.
Lisa:He was born with the failure probably, or zips as chicken or eek scenario.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:So these things, one leads to an acute respiratory syndrome
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:And they all lead on from one to the other when the body starts to shut down, basically.
Eugene:It's a cascade isn’t it?
Lisa:It’s a cascade. That is a very good way of putting it. So rhabdo—and while there is perhaps no documented case of a death from rhabdomyolysis, I don't know if they—I know in my life, I've had rhabdo. I can't even remember the number of times I've had rhabdo.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:I took away kidney damage from it and the last few years, I've been trying to unravel that damage and undo that.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:I'm getting there slowly.
Eugene:Yes, yes.
Lisa:So it is a very as if quite a common thing.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:So we don't know whether in this case that was actual final, what actually did it? It certainly would have been a major contributing factor.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:Well, what is rhabdo? I suppose we better explain what rhabdos are.
Eugene:Yes. So I mean, well, from your experience, you will know better than me. But I spoke to Dr Hoffman and to Dr Tom Reynolds, who's the race doctor for—one of the race doctors for Tarawera.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:And they explained it as the muscle started to break down and the myoglobin from the muscle being released into the bloodstream. And then it basically just starts clogging up the kidneys and just causing real damage in your kidneys. The problem with it is the symptoms for sort of sound like a lot of other things and also can just sound like what you might expect running an ultramarathon.
Lisa:Yes, the kind of that also.
Eugene:Yes, tenderness of muscles, a bit of confusion, and so on. And then even some of the blood tests that you can do to pick it up. So they look for CK—you're much more proficient in the medical world than me.
Lisa:Not more.
Eugene:But the thing that they test for—it basically there was an experiment at Western States a number of years ago, where they tested bloods of people in Western states and they tested something like 160 runners, all of them had elevated CK levels.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:So in part, it's just a function of ultrarunning, your muscles are gonna break down to some extent. So that makes it very, very tricky to find out, to discover it. And Dr Hoffman said, ‘Sometimes the first sign that you get that someone's got rhabdo, is they have a seizure’.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:So it can be a tricky, tricky condition to pick up. Yes, that's really—it's hard, isn't it? It's really hard.
Lisa:It is hard and—but when you are going for—and some of these races are 24, 36, 50 something hours, you're going to have some breakdown of muscle and you…
Eugene:You are.
Lisa:I mean, keeping an eye on the colour of your urine or if you are not producing…
Eugene:Yes, that’s an important one. Yes.
Lisa:It is probably the easiest thing to think about. Because like you say, the nausea and headaches and confusion and fatigue are all very general parts about running anyway. So keeping an eye on it, like getting a pouch of fluid. What I would find is that in the lower abdomen, and I don't know if whether this is an actual medical symptom or not. But in the lower abdomen, I've developed this pot gap running and, it wasn't fat, obviously.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:...within a couple of hours. It was fluid, and would usually coincide with my kidneys—they’re not producing or producing very little output. So I think there might be a sign that something's going on there.
Eugene:Right.
Lisa:In rhabdo, like, we're talking ultramarathons, but I have seen a case of rhabdo in a half marathon in summer.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:Yes. So a mild case, but enough to be taken to hospital. So it's not even just people doing the extreme extreme stuff.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:But it is a very—and you have to ask yourself, how much damage are we doing every time we do and I often asked, ‘Why are you not running anymore’? ‘Why are you not doing it anymore’? And apart from life's gotten a bit crazy. Am I? Indeed yes.
Eugene:Yes, yes.
Lisa:Should I have not got the time to be doing offers? I want longevity and while I love ultras, and I love the culture. And I love what I got to do. And I'm certainly not, I mean, I train lots of ultrarunners. I for myself, don't want to put myself at that risk anymore. Now that I'm also 50 and I want longevity. And therefore my health comes before my sporting ambitions now. It didn't when I was younger, but now with—unfortunately, one of the side effects of studying medical stuff for the last five years, is that I'm now a little bit more cautious.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:Because ignorance is bliss.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:What you don't know, you just go and do.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:You don’t actually know the implications and sometimes, you don't actually know the implications until well down the track, like, you use to check.
Eugene:Yes. yes, sure.
Lisa:That's where I'm sitting at the moment, as far as the sort of the dangers and the risks. I mean, how did you feel as a runner, who—you were in the same race doing the same distance? You're a little bit north of 25 now.
Eugene:Jump 47.
Lisa:You're 47?
Eugene:Yes. 47, yes.
Lisa:And did this make you stop and think about, ‘Do I want to keep doing this stuff? How do I feel about it’?
Eugene:Yes, it sure does. It sure does make your family think of that, doesn't that? I think it reinforces that you need to have really good self management. You need to be well prepared. I spoke to—when I spoke to Dr Reynolds, and I said to him, ‘We had this big conversation about all the cold coloured urine and all that sort of stuff’. That sounds a bit odd, and a little different other conditions that can come about. Yes, and so on. And I said to him, ‘Boy listen to all of that. Do you recommend people run ultramarathons’? And he said, ‘Look. At three o'clock when the medical team is full. And I've got my hands full, I look around, and I go, What the hell have we been doing this for’? But he says, ‘But it's a small proportion that gets badly affected. And as long as you manage your risks, and you're aware of it’, he said one of the things that he's really concerned about is people jumping up the distance too quickly.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Or the runner suddenly, ‘Wow, I'm gonna run 100 miler’, because it has become, I think it's…
Lisa:The new marathon.
Eugene:I told him, I spent more time trying to talk people out of doing milers than I do in trying to talk them into doing milers. I don't think I talk to any other or talked anyone into doing a miler. It's a very personal choice. I spend a lot of time talking to people out of it, makes me so again. But again, I don't know if that's a good idea, mate.
Lisa:Me too.
Eugene:Yes. And it sounds bad.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Try running podcasts.
Lisa:I know. You know, my buddy out running.
Eugene:Yes. But I just think people need to be really conscious of the risks.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:And they need to be prepared to put the time in. And that's one of the things that you've identified. You've got to prepare your body. And you've got to know your body. I mean, I took—I've been running my whole life. And I didn't take the decision to enter the miler, lightly, certainly would now knowing what I do know now. And when I say no, I mean, I'd always heard of rhabdo. I'd heard of AIH, I'd heard of dehydrational systems.
And you sort of think about you sort of like, ‘Yes, yes, yes’. But having lined up at the start line with someone who didn't make it home that really reinforces that these are real risks, and you have to be prepared for them. You have to be ready for them. So, I'm not gonna stop ultrarunning, I don't think. But I'm certainly going to be a hell of a lot more careful. And listen to my body.
Lisa:Exactly.
Eugene:Sometimes you can get that. I find one side of ultra running that I struggle with a little bit is the whole kind of ‘You're not going to quit unless the ambulance takes you off the course’ kind of thing. I don't like that. I don’t really like that.
Lisa:I totally agree.
Eugene:You know, I agree. I love the whole mental toughness thing out of it. Don't get me wrong. That's one of the things that I enjoy about it. But you have to listen to your body. You have to listen to your body. I've pulled out of a 100k race, where I could have pushed on. You know. Looking back, it's like, ‘Yes, I could have pushed on, at what cost’? You know?
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Yes, it just wasn't worth it. Could I push through and be out there for another hours and hours and hours and hours? Putting myself...
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Yes, sure. I could have but what was the risk? What could have happened? And what do I get out of it? Instead I actually came away from that race having learned a hell of a lot of lessons. And they prepared me for the miler, actually.
Lisa:Yes. And I think that’s some beautiful attitude and in a very wise mind. Some of the things that I did in my younger years or even—I’m talking 40s.
Eugene:Yes, yes.
Lisa:We're stupid. There is no other word for it. And especially in the 30s, my 30s, I thought I was bulletproof and I could push and I had that mentality, you're going to have to drag me away, framing and I have seen lots of others. And I have nearly pushed my body on a number of occasions to the point of death and I've been very, very lucky not to have died.
I've had tetany seizures, which is where your potassium level and your electrolytes are so out of whack that the whole body cramps and so I'm having a heart attack. I was luckily at that at the point that I head out, I was in Alaska, and I'd been for six weeks out in Yukon with poor nutrition and so on and pushing the body every day. I just come off a mountain when this tetany seizure hit. Luckily, I was two minutes from a hospital, and they saved my life.
Eugene:Wow.
Lisa:But that would have been deadly very quickly. I've experienced extreme levels of dehydration in the Libyan desert where we only had like one and a half to two litres of water a day in 40 plus temperatures. And gone to the point where I no longer was in control of my body, and my—not only just hallucinations but the central nervous system starting to shut down. Massive kidney damage, and taking nearly two years to recover from that.
I’ve had food poisoning while running across Niger, and again bleeding at both ends pushing it to the absolute limit I did pull out of that race at 64 hours after 222Ks but that was way too late. I've gotten away by the skin of my teeth. Not to mention going through war zones or military body areas
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:Or being in really dangerous situations and that's a whole podcast in itself. But it wasn't worth it. Now I think I was just so afraid of failure I was so afraid of not achieving that, which I'd set out to do that. And I have to think about it now and go I wasn't in—people who are in war scenarios or some survival situation where you have to freakin go to the limit alive.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:But I wasn't in there. This is a—well, Libyan desert ended up like that, but you know what I mean?
Eugene:Midnight summer bitches.
Lisa:Oh yes, it’s some stupid shit. It really was. But at what costs? Now, I've had a lot of health issues in the last five to six years and a lot of that comes from—I haven't been able to have children you know and so on and so forth. And these are the contributing factors
Eugene:Sure enough.
Lisa:That's the only reason for certain things, but now as a coach and as an older wiser woman, I don't want to see people pushing their bodies to that point where they actually close to dying or causing major damage to the body.
Eugene:Yes, yes.
Lisa:It really is not worth it.
Eugene:I mean this pushing the limits isn't there. And mentally, I think there's a lot to be said for having a goal that's going to stretch you when you are going to go for it. But the key is to be prepared, isn’t it? To actually have done the training...
Lisa:The training
Eugene:...to prepare your body. To test—so that you know when your body's screaming at you, you know it’s saying, ‘Okay, you know what, you know to pull the pen or you know to stop and rest or whatever’. I think there was some good—Tom Reynolds had some five tips which are really good.
Lisa:Yes. Let’s hear them
Eugene:To prepare yourself for an ultra especially ultras but even marathons I suppose
Lisa:Absolutely.
Eugene:Number one on his list, and I think he would make this number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 is don't take drugs like Ibuprofen and Voltaren and those sorts of things.
Lisa:Super important.
Eugene:Do not take them. Yes, super important. The second one is drink to thirst. You know that you can have problems—your own problems if you have too much liquid.
Lisa:Yes, which we’re talking about in a sec.
Eugene:Yes. Be prepared for the conditions. Have a plan for a range of conditions. So make sure you've got thermals. Make sure you've got your jackets and sawn and layers that you can take on and take off especially if you're going to some of these remote areas that we go to as ultrarunners.
Number four, the race doesn't end at the finish. Pack warm clothes, get some food ready that you can eat, some liquids. And another thing that he pointed out to me is actually some of the most dangerous times is after that finish line. When people get to the finish line, and drive hard, and they're tired.
Lisa:It's so true.
Eugene:You can crash easily for a second crash.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:And number five is look out for each other. and I think that's so important. Sometimes there's a bit of competition isn't there? But number one, you've got to look out for each other
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:You are comrades in this together and you've got to have each other's backs. And there's little relationships that you build up with someone you've never met before. I still remember having a good chat to a farmer from Jordan. I spent a lot of hours with him at Tarawera. Haven't spoken up since, never met him before in my life, but there we were together at Bizmates on the trail.
Lisa:Awesome.
Eugene:Keeping an eye on each other. Looking out for each other. You make sure they've got their bottles filled at the aid station. You make sure that they're not getting confused or anything like that—just looking out for each other. Simple isn’t it?
Lisa:That’s gold.
Eugene:And that was the five tips that he gave. Actually, they're pretty good tips.
Lisa:They are very good tips, and a couple other ones to pick out like the training. In my early days as a coach, I remember taking an athlete who went from half marathon to running the Big Red Run 250Ks.
Eugene:Wow.
Lisa:Inside a month.
Eugene:Oh.
Lisa:Now on a red mat, that was stupid.
Eugene:YeS.
Lisa:He came over to do 100k to be fair, and he was doing so well. He just decided to carry on and to do the whole thing. And it was an incredible achievement.
Eugene:Oh, yes.
Lisa:However, broken my butt. Like, it never was quite the same afterwards. And he wasn't ready. He wasn't, like, his body wasn't ready. So when you prepare your body, when you're training, you doing these long runs, and you're doing back to back running, and you're doing strength training, you're doing mobility work, all these things are preparing the muscles so that they don't break down so quickly and they don't need—you don't need about rhabdo.
And another big piece of the puzzle is the experience side of things. Because then you can actually start to feel when your body's doing a chick or not. As I run, I used to do like little chickens every half hour or an hour I'd go right I'm doing a control like a pilot would before he flies the airplane. ‘How is everything? How am I feeling? Have I ever drunk in the last 10 minutes? Have I eaten anything? When was the last time I weighed? When was the last time’... Just doing a mental checklist as often as you can.
Now one of the hard things with ultra though is that you start to lose your brain function, so all the blood flow is going away from your executive function up here and you become like a bit of a moron. You’re like, ‘Oh, oh’.
Eugene:Absolutely. Solving maths? Impossible.
Lisa:Impossible. Or maybe doing a 24 hour race, the one at the Millennium Stadium, and there was some guys they’re testing us just for a laugh, doing Noughts and Crosses as we run around the track and our brain function is a day and night wore on just we weren't even able to add up one plus one anymore. We just completely like, ‘Eh’?
He’s got low blood and my brain is not functioning. So what that does mean is that your ability to make good decisions is also impaired. I remember saying to one of my friends who was a paramedic and she was with me in Death Valley, in the second time I did Death Valley. And she says, I said to her, ‘You are responsible for my health’. I was lucky I had a crew in that situation. If you pull me out, you pull me out. I know that you won't pull me prematurely because you know what, it's taken me to get here. But my life is in your hands and I respect that. I respect you. I respect your knowledge as paramedic. If you tell me it's over, it's over. And she will be able to make that decision because I knew from my personality and from my matter that cost me to get there wasn't going to be pulling out anytime soon.
So sometimes if you can have in the case where you have a crew have somebody say, ‘This is now getting dangerous’. And it's a fine line. Like I pulled my husband out of a race once, Northburn, a race that I co-founded a few years ago in the South Island. And he was doing the 100k and he actually rang me on the cellphone, and it seem the case, we had a massive storm up in the mountains. It was wild. It was his first 100k, he was in the mountains. He was scared shirtless. He was hypothermic. And I was like, ‘Oh my god, darling, just come home’. You know? So that was—and he could have pushed on.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:And mentally that cost him a lot because he pulled out, and he didn't push over that hub. So there's this fine line between it should’ve been ours...
Eugene:But he lives to tell the story.
Lisa:Exactly, and he's done that, so it wasn’t...
Eugene:Exactly, that doesn't matter, you know? We love those stories. I love reading your books. I love reading the things that you've been through. But, my gosh, when you think about the risks as you say and the cost, and that's a common story. You're not alone in there, That's the sport we’re in.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:It's ridiculous to me. But you know, it's a tough one. And it's, I think that's a really good idea. Having someone who's who's got your back. Someone who you can trust, like you say, they're not going to pull you out you know just because you stub your toe. Oh gosh...
Lisa:Just because you’re...
Eugene:Exactly. Exactly. Who hasn't? But you can trust them so that when you've gone to that thin line, bang!
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Come on my area.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:And I was lucky to have a really good mate who phased me. I went through some hallucinations. Nothing major. But he thought it was—I had my mate. And he was looking out for me. In fact, he laughed at me.
Lisa:What did you see in your hallucination?
Eugene:Oh, I hit home. So we were running around on an unfamiliar course. We were coming around the back of Blue Lake. Up towards the Blue Lake aid station. So about 120km. And it was just before sunrise. So, you get that funny light.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:It's still dark, but the light is changing. And I swore coming up to the aid station, I swore I saw a robot sitting off to the side of the trail. And in my photo frame mind, I justified it as ‘Oh, it must be like reading, it must be scanning us telling the aid section that we're coming’. And so I saw it. And said to my mate, ‘James, there’s a robot. It's pretty cool’. And he's like, ‘The what’? ‘The robot there’. And he's like, ‘There’s nothing, man’. And I think it was a tree or something. I don't know what it was. But it's funny how I justified it to myself. So it was fine. And then after the light changed, I got a couple of situations where it's quite unlikely to cause hallucination or is vision going. But I—the ground was just like liquid glass.
Lisa:Wow, that’s cool.
Eugene:I was like, ‘Oh, should I put my foot down or not’? And James said, ‘What are you doing? Come on’! It was like, ‘What's going on with the ground’?
Lisa:[32:58]inaudiblethe glass. Well.
Eugene:So that was but—people have some great hallucinations, don't know. But the point of that was, I had my mate there. It was never unsafe. And I'm grateful for that. So I think that's a really good tip, Lisa, to have a crew with you.
Lisa:I think hooking up. Or if you're in a race where you don't have crew—which most of them are. And that you do hook up with somebody. If you can try and not too many people because then your pacing will be all out. But if you can just hook up with one person or maybe two at the max.
I remember running the Gobi Desert in the Sahara with same gash who was in the desert runners movie together and this is great footage and desert runners is playing at the moment on TVNZ if anyone wants to check it out, it’s a cool movie. And yes we're running along holding each other's hands, bawling our eyes out, and but we got each other through both of those messiest days, both in the Sahara, and in the Gobi. And we ran together in India as well but with crews in that case. But that comradeship that we have there was just gold. It just helped.
When you [34:17]escaped shirtless you hit someone theand we did get lost and we did fold our paces and we did have all sorts of dramas and we kept each other going through all those hard times and I think that's one of the beautiful memories for me that I take away from that. And there were other people I've done the things with... And the depth of connection that you have with a human being when you've gone through something like that it's just next level. And that's one of the beautiful things because we’re talking about all our negatives here but it is just like—she’s a very amazing woman that one. She’s done incredible things.
Eugene:It is incredible, isn’t it. Those connections you make.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:The friendships you forge. Even if you don't see each other again, but you've got that bond. That's forever.
Lisa:Yes.
Eugene:Those moments that you shared when you're vulnerable.
Lisa:When you're up [35:11]Creekand literally. Guys who didn't even speak the same language or a woman I remember running in the Sahara at one point with a—I was crying, she was crying. She was from South America somewhere, didn't speak a word of English, or another French guy picked me up in Jordan when I was running across there and I'd passed out and he came along, picked me up, got me into the next checkpoint. The French guy and Niger, it's just like, ‘Wow’. The stuff that you help each other through. It's gold, but does this do happen, you know?
Eugene:They do. They do. Yes.
Lisa:We have one in the Gobi Desert. We had a young man, Nicholas Kruse was only like 30 or 31, I think. And he was first time doing it. And he wasn't trained enough, I don't think. And he—I think he underestimated the thing. And he unfortunately probably paid the ultimate price. And then you've got also the dangers. I mean, you got cases like with Turia Pitt, the forest fires in Australia, or there are things that could go wrong.
Eugene:Yes, absolutely.
Lisa:Even in these organisers' races. You have falls where you've hit your head and concussions and... Just because you're in an organised event, do not think that there isn't an element of danger, or that you're going to have to be self-reliant, you cannot. And inside these countries is beyond the abilities of the organisers actually to cover every base.
Eugene:Absolutely. Well, even in races in New Zealand, we go to some remote places, and races route is difficult to get. You're not just going to be able to ring up 111 and get an ambulance there.
Lisa:No.
Eugene:It's not like that. I've been in a 100k race where—because there have been lots of runners going through this. It was a narrow bit of the trail. And it was really dry there. And runners have been going over this bit of land. And basically, as the day wore on, it sort of started to break down a little bit. And I was just the unlucky one stick on the trail in a way. And I slid down this bank...
Lisa:Oh my god.
Eugene:...and down, down, down, down down, thinking, ‘Uh-oh, when's this going to stop’? Luckily, I hit, I came to a stop on a tree, not badly. And then basically had to scrape my way back up. Now, I was fine. But you know, those sorts of things can happen if I stumbled in a wrong way as I came off the trail and hit my head, whatever. So you are—yes, you will, I mean, it’s not... Well, I mean, when we've been out on a run in a cotton wool, so [37:57]do we. But we don't want to go everybody.But you don't need to be conscious.
Lisa:I'll be conscious of it. I think...
Eugene:And even when you're training too, when you're training, when you are going out in remote areas. Make sure you tell someone where you're going. Preferably run with some other mates. Maybe think about taking a locator beacon with you if you're going somewhere really remote.
Lisa:Absolutely.
Eugene:Have a phone with you, do those sorts of things. Take those precautions. Just be a bit careful. Yes, we want to push ourselves. Yes, we want to be out there. Yes, we want to find new limits. But we also want to get back home.
Lisa:Yes, we want to come home to our families and not die on the way.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:If we can. I mean, people can take it to the level that they want to go to, but just don't want people going and thinking that everything's safe because it's an organised event or because hundreds of other people have done it, means absolutely nothing.
Eugene:Absolutely.
Lisa:I’ll tell you, like how many thousands of people have climbed Mount Everest, but it's still a frickin dangerous thing to do.
Eugene:Absolutely.
Lisa:Doesn't mean it's safe just because lots of people have done it. I think like—if we just went through a bit of a list now of some of your things that you'd like from a medical perspective, that you should gone this research on and find out about.
One of them, so we've talked about rhabdomyolysis. Dehydration is the opposite, is well known, dehydration is what we think about more, and that's certainly something that can then can lead to troubles. And you've got hyponatraemia or EAH, so hyponatraemia let's just talk about that one briefly because it's a biggie. Hyponatraemia is a low sodium level in the body. I've had it. Lots of people give this. And it's again, a hard one to diagnose because it is very similar to the opposite problem, which is dehydration. So hyponatraemia you've actually got too much water on board.
One of the signs of this I'm even doing was 100k, one of those Oxfam ones. And because we'd been walking for so long, it was a walking running situation thing. And I got really bad hyponatraemia in that one. I was drinking a lot. I wasn't having my electrolytes, right. And my hands were like elephant hands.
Eugene:Wow.
Lisa:So that's an indication that there's something going on. So look for signs like that, look for swelling, edema. And yes, that could like...
Eugene:Nausea, lightheadedness, those sorts of things as well.
Lisa:Coordination, going haywire. And the problem with hyponatraemia is you don't want to just be thinking it's dehydration and then drinking more. So it's an—it's a low sodium. So, your potassium and your sodium are having antagonistic relationships in your body. And you have, for every three bits of sodium that gets pushed out of the cells, three bits of potassium come into the cells. And it's like, it acts like a pump. And it's actually what helps your muscles contract.
So if you get that sodium, potassium, ainger, other electrolytes out of whack, there's a whole lot of things that can happen. hyponatraemia being one of them. In another one being a tetanyseizure, which is what I mentioned what I had in Alaska.
Eugene:Yes, so what's that?
Lisa:So this is where—in my case, it was a potassium that was really, really low in the body at 1.4. Like it’s deadly...
Eugene:Wow.
Lisa:Deadly low. And I'd had in the couple of weeks building up to this actual seizure. My hands were doing this, and I was cramping all the time. And that was so—if you ever start doing that, like this weird thing where your hands are starting to spin.
Eugene:So, like dinosaur hands on.
Lisa:Yes, so your fingers—for those listening can't see me do my funny thing here. It's the muscles contracting and your fingers are pulling in. So I remember, swimming at some point, and the lead up to this with this was happening to me. I was like, ‘What the hell's that’? And then it would go off again. But there was a sign that I didn't have enough potassium as I found out later.
Eugene:All right.
Lisa:So then I had, a couple of weeks later, this tetany seizure, and it started with the whole body. Just like every muscle in the body cramping all at the same time, the most painful thing you can ever—like really bad pain, including your face muscles, including your heart, which is the problem.
And in there, the pain was horrific. I thought I was dying, I was. Luckily I just come off a mountain, or was taking shelter in a public library because it was pouring with rain and freezing cold. And this happened in the library. And there was a paramedic in the library who just happened to be fixing a light bulb. He saw me go down.
Eugene:That’s one of the 43:10[inaudible]moments.
Lisa:Yes, that was very lucky. He put a gel straight into my mouth. He just happened to have a gel on him. And that gave a little bit of glucose and stuff too, and managed to release the seizure for a couple of minutes before it happened again. But by then he got me into the ambulance and around to the hospital pretty quick, smart. And they were able to save me. But that could have been deadly. That could have been a massive heart attack on the way out.
I've seen that also happen and we were in the outback of Australia with friend Chris Ord. And he had a seizure at mile, coming in at 90 sort, and we've been running in 40 odd degrees heat and he'd been taking electrolyte tablets. So people electrolyte tablets are absolutely crucial. You've got to have them. The ones he was taking didn't have potassium. They had everything else in them but their ratios weren't right. And he ended up—we had to—again incredible pain, whole body seizing, racing him into the hospital Alice Springs.
What I did do and what you can do in a case like that is give him three cans of Redbull—not advertising for Redbull or because generally that’s a shit thing to be drinking. And this case, with what it's got in it and the sugars and stuff that helped. So yes, but that's just a potassium sodium balance.
Eugene:Yes .That's the thing, isn't it? We're missing with our chemistry. We're missing with the body's chemistry. I don't know what it was but I had one race where I just finished and as soon as I finished, I started shaking.
Lisa:Oh, yes.
Eugene:Shaking and shaking. I couldn't stop for hours. And it wasn't cold. I wasn't cold.
Lisa:Oh, I know what it is.
Eugene:Well, what is it? Because...
Lisa:I don't know the name of it. But I've had that many times. It's basically where you've just got nothing left in the body.
Eugene:Yes, somebody said to me, glycogen. Yes, just the glycogen is gone.
Lisa:You just got nothing, you got nothing to heat because you know we heating ourselves all the time with our glycogen supplies and our glucose is running out of their body. And you were just on absolute zero basically, taking your blood sugar, I bet you’re in a really, really low
Eugene:Right.
Lisa:And so like, in Death—I’mtelling my bloody stories, but...
Eugene:Why not?
Lisa:A member in Death Valley. We be head like 55 degrees during the day, I’ve had heat stroke and had all that. And then at nighttime, it was 40 degrees. And I got shivers. I was doing that. I was like this and it was 40 degrees.And I was like, ‘Really, what the hell is going on? It's 40 degrees’. It was a lot colder than it had been, but I just had nothing left in the tank and therefore I was shaking.
And that can be a real danger when you say in the Himalayas, which I've also done and that's where you just cannot warm up. You can't keep your heat going. And these can run into other problems where you just stuck—your blood sugar just keep dropping, and you can end up when—going into a coma just because your blood sugar is too low, and you got hypothermia.
Eugene:The other problem that happens. And I've had this a couple of times after ultras is I just have zero appetite, I can't, I just can't face the thought of food. You got to get something into you, you go start replenishing your body, you got to look at soups or something to get some nutrition back into it. Because like you say, it can be dangerous.
Lisa:And that's a recovery too, like, if you can get something in it will help you recover a heck of a lot faster even like just generally fully training runs, if you can get something in within an hour. But usually within an hour, you just do not feel, you just feel like vomiting if you eat too much. So you just have to take a little, little, little nibble, nibble, nibble. And something that you're really—usually savoury salty things that you will get have a taste for. So soup or things or something like that. Just trying to eat something in. My gosh, there's a lot to be worried about.
Eugene:And that's the thing, that's the thing. These are all things that you need to be conscious of. But you manage your rests, don't you? You can manage them. And what one of the other things that Dr Reynold said, and I think is pertinent today, what just what we're dwelling on the bad things is that these risks are exponential. So he says, ‘Don't think that you run 100k all year, well, then 160Ks, that's only another 60k’. It's an exponential increase, and an exponential increase in those risks as well. So conscious of those things as well.
Lisa:So watch when you're jumping up in this.
Eugene:Yes.
Lisa:And also don't fall into the trap of thinking, ‘Oh, I did it once. Therefore, it's a piece of cake. I could do it either’. I've run into this where I came off the back of a Himalayan one. I just done 222Ks. I thought it was the bee's knees. And then I went and did it just a couple of weeks later and I hadn't recovered properly a 50k in Australia. And the wheels freakin came off at 25k. It wasn't the—I had to be risky for some beer drinking Ausies in the middle of the bush. I'll tell you your ego suddenly deflated.
Eugene:Yes, absolutely, Lisa and it's—I learned that lesson even just with the map just for the marathon.
Lisa:Don’t say that.
Eugene:But just for the marathon. I ran my first marathon when I was 21 and I trained for it. And so I found it actually quite easy. I don't mean that—I wasn't fast but but it was I got to the end of it. I can't keep waiting for the wall. The wall never came. I got—I thought, ‘Ah’! So I made the mistake thinking marathon is easy. A piece of cake. Yes, run up on the next one. [49:13]ecruzihardly did any training.
Lisa:Oh.
Eugene:My bad, so bad. And it was like it was just the marathon telling me, ‘Sunshine’...
Lisa:Respect.
Eugene:‘Respect the distance’. You cannot run something like this without respecting it. And it was a good listen.
Lisa:Good listen.
Eugene:Good listen, I'll let my listen. But I let my listen.
Lisa:And in by that token, respect any distance. People often say to me, I'm just doing it, I'm just doing half marathons, or I'm just doing marathons and because I've done lots of ultramarathons they think, ‘Oh, that would be nothing for you’. And I'm like, ‘Hell no’.
Eugene:Hell no. Absolutely.
Lisa:Every distance has to respect because it’s sort of basic thing for starters. 100 metres is a long way when you're going at Usain Bolt and 5k is really fast when you're going at your maximum. And a team K is an attunity. It's all relative to pace for status. And the second thing is never think because you did it once. Next time, it's going to be sweet. And Eugene has given us an absolute good example of that. And it is. It’s like take every race is that first is a big deal. And you have to prepare your body for it.
And don't—oh, another mistake I made this was awesome. Another embarrassing thing. So you know. Done 25 years of stupid stuff and then when my mum got sick I didn't train obviously properly for 10 months and then I ran across the north on and raising money for charity a friend who’ve died, Samuel Gibson a wonderful man that we lost. And I was so moved. I decided I'm going to run anyway. And I have not been training for 10 months because I've been looking after my mum and I sort of thought out, this sweet, have done this backwards and upside down. I can do this.
Oh my God, my ass got handed to me. And I got through it. But oh, hell, it was hell. It was not funny. So prepare. And even though you've done it a100 times doesn't mean you still got it.
Eugene:That's right. That's right.
Lisa:I assume I don't got it now.
Eugene:And that point you made earlier about recovery, too. I did a 100k race and then you had this plan to recover, to take weeks off, got peer pressure. Mates we're doing a 50k. ‘Come on. Come on, man. I don't want peer pressure. Peer pressure’. ‘Okay. You’re already lined up to this 50k race’. Oh boy. And it just set me backwards. It set me back so far, you know?
Lisa:Mentaly too.
Eugene:Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, yes, respect things.
Lisa:We've got to respect things. We've got to not expect that our bodies got it just because we've done it once before. Be aware of things like rhabdomyolysis, heatstroke, hyponatraemia, altitude if you're doing altitude, podcasts in itself, be aware of burnout...
Eugene:Hypothermia.
Lisa:...hypothermia, dehydration. All of these things are things that we can and do happen to be seizures, electrolyte imbalances, getting lost, going through dangerous places, breaking ankles, and all that sort of thing. So part, it is, can happen. So, be aware of that. And we're not saying don't go out and have adventures, because that'd be really critical. Butprepare for those adventures. Get proper training. Get proper coaching. Know what you're in for.
Eugene:It's like driving a car. One of the most dangerous things we do. But we make sure we wear our seatbelts, we make sure our cars have got a Warrant of Fitness and the service, and everything. We make sure there's air in the tires, we make sure there's fuel in the tank, and our bodies have got to be like that as well.
Lisa:Exactly.
Eugene:That driving is so so dangerous. You know, so many people a year die on our roads.
Lisa:Yes, more than ultras.
Eugene:Yes, so we don't not drive. We just make sure that when we drive we are prepared and our cars are prepared. Well, that's the same as running. There are risks, not as much as driving. But there are risks, but we just make sure we've got air in the tires, we've got fuel in the tank, that we're serviced, and ready to go when we line up for races.
Lisa:Brilliant. Eugene, you've been fantastic today. And now you've got another thing to get to. So I want to thank you for writing that article. And thank you for your honesty and openness about this because it's really important that we do talk about it in our running community and to share the good, the bad and the ugly. So I think it's important. And keep up the great work. Of course, people should go and listen toDirt Church Radio. It's a fantastic podcast that
Eugene:We have great gear that’s wireless.
Lisa:Honoured to be on your show, mate. And I love talking to you and I love what you do. So thanks very much, mate for being on the show today.
Eugene:Anytime. Thanks, Lisa.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team atlisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
15 Dec 2023
Optimizing Your Health, Longevity And Aging Based On Your Genetics With Ultramarathon Runner/Genetics And Longevity Expert Lisa Tamati
00:58:23
In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" the tables are turned on Lisa as she is interviewed by renown longevity expert, author of "The DNA way", past CEO of the DNA Company in Toronto, Kashif Khan.
In this episode, Kashif and Lisa discuss the importance of knowing one's genetics in order to fully optimize your health, longevity, and rate of aging. Lisa's profile is the perfect example in this case. Lisa shares how she deals with oxidative stress, how she reverted her health into an optimal state, diet, lifestyle, and keeping her ageing rate to at 0.69 according the Trudiagnostic Dunedin Pace study, meaning she has one of the slowest rates of ageing in the world.
Throughout the discussion, Lisa also shares one of her most memorable races, also known as the world's highest running race, where she battled through a series of trials, from hypoxic concussions to ripped ligaments to asthma attacks, to lack of oxygen from being at extreme altitude, fear, extreme temperatures, and everything else unimaginable while running/walking/crawling through 222km in the Himalayas at altitudes up to 5,800 metres.
Talking points of this interview may be found below: 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Optimizing Your Health Based on Genetics 08:12 The Himalayan Race: The World's Highest Running Race 22:51 Dr. Mansoor Mohammed and Introducing Genetics to Lisa's Life 26:21 True Diagnostics Age Rate Test 29:11 Tools for Longevity 32:09 Key Takeaways for Optimal Health 35:22 Caregiving for Her Mother, and Working Against Ailments and Negativities 39:29 Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy 45:56 Oxidative Therapies 50:31 Relationships and How it Impacts Relationships
If after listening to Lisa and Kashif you would like to get your own DNA testing done, Lisa can take you through her program. Go to https://dna.lisatamati.com/dna
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Sulforaphane And The Nrf2 Pathway With Dr Christine Houghton
01:24:38
In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" I interview one of the world's leading phytochemical and nutrigenomics researchers who specializes in sulforaphane. Todays episode is all about improving cellular health, the core of health, and how activating the Nrf2 pathway through such phytonutrients like Sulforaphane (the precursors of which Glucoraphanin and Myrosinase) are found in Broccoli sprouts and other cruciferous veggies.
You will learn:
How sulforaphane upregulates the Nrf2 pathway
How the Nrf2 pathway acts as a master switch, turning on over 250 genes and impacting thousands of enzymes in their function.
How the Nrf2 pathway upregulates the cells own intelligent endogenous antioxidant systems
Why just throwing a bunch of antioxidants into the body doesn't work in quenching oxidative stress
The impact of upregulating Nrf2 in relation to the gut
How it has system wide implications
Why probiotics don't colonize the gut like you think they do
How probiotics (or certain strains) can still be useful in immune modulation
Why you should have a food first approach
The traps to watch out for when buying a 'sulforaphane' supplement and why most of the ones on the market are a waste of your time and money
How long you should take it, typical dosing regimens, combinations with other phytonutrients and supplements.
How to use this information to optimize your health
Why it pays to work with one of Dr Christines trained G.E.M.M protocol trained clinicians
Why some people have a reaction when they start, and why that means you need it most and how to adjust the dosing while not giving up
BIO
Dr Christine Houghton has enjoyed a fulfilling and varied career in Nutritional Medicine spanning more than 30 years — and her influential work continues to stay at the forefront of this rapidly evolving profession. As a clinician, author and educator, she is dedicated to promoting a model of health care that closely reflects the diet and lifestyle choices Mother Nature would choose herself. An individual's unique biochemistry is a significant contributor to this model.
Christine's intense appreciation of the power of food as therapy began in the 1970s, an era when there were very few supplements available. With few other choices, she soon discovered the real power of food as a potent clinical intervention tool; to this day, she adopts a 'food first' philosophy.
A decade into practice, she established a thriving multi-disciplinary practice, the Centre for Integrated Medicine near Brisbane. There, she specialized in musculoskeletal conditions, glucose-regulating disorders including type 2 diabetes and other cardio metabolic conditions, digestive health and infant and child health, especially those associated with immune dysfunction.
Passionate about the relationship between nutrients, phytochemicals and cellular defenses, Christine subsequently engaged in research at the University of Queensland, earning her a PhD in Nutritional Biochemistry-Nutrigenomics. Christine is highly-regarded internationally as an expert in the clinical application of the broccoli-derived phytochemical, Sulforaphane in human health. As founding director of Cell-Logic, she has formulated a number of nutrigenomically-active supplements which are underpinned by her doctoral research.
In addition to her scientific and other publications, Christine is the co-author of two evidence-based nutrigenomics courses: FOUNDATIONS IN NUTRIGENOMICS and ADVANCED TRANSLATIONAL NUTRIGENOMICS, both self-paced online courses for practicing clinicians and the only comprehensive courses of their kind available anywhere globally. A regular speaker at Australian and international conferences, Christine is an engaging speaker whose evidence-based presentations often challenge existing paradigms.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Breathwork - The key to Better Health with James Nestor
01:08:23
Every day, we spend an average of 20,000 breaths with 11,000 litres of air, primarily made with subconscious effort. If you want better health, changing your breathing technique probably isn’t the first option that comes to mind. We don’t even think about it; we don’t pay attention to how we do it. But it turns out that how you breathe has far-reaching effects on many aspects of human health. Discovering what it means to breathe correctly is crucial for greater wellness.
In this episode, author and journalist, James Nestor, joins us in seeking to unlock a person’s full breathing potential. He discusses the myriad of health benefits controlled respiration can provide. You’ll also learn how industrialisation made it harder to breathe correctly and how various exercises can improve your respiration.
Listen to this episode to discover simple methods to maximise the benefits of each breath you take.
If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
James is a journalist who once covered a world freediving championship in Greece.
Despite being a swimmer and bodysurfer himself, he was astounded by participants who can dive 300 to 400 feet in a single breath.
Upon returning to San Francisco, James decided to write a book about freediving. His research exposed him to the art of breathing and its importance to wellbeing.
He learned that improper breathing is damaging to the body.
[10:29] The Physiology of Breathing
Contrary to widespread knowledge, it’s possible to have too much oxygen and not enough carbon dioxide in the body. However, it is essential to have a balance between these two.
Many standard breathing methods deplete carbon dioxide levels, leading to lower oxygen saturation and more unsatisfactory performance.
A study found that by holding their breath comfortably for 25 seconds, 85% of the athletes will not have a breathing dysfunction.
Instead of compensating, learning proper breathing techniques can increase your bodily tolerance for carbon dioxide.
Listen to the full episode to learn more about the process of breathing!
[19:57] Basic Breathing Techniques
Most people breathe faster than the optimal rate without realising that many of their health problems come from their breathing rate.
The point of breathing exercises is to acclimate your body to breathe through the nose without thinking about it.
Slower breaths while maintaining the same volume of air can increase efficiency by 35%.
Transitioning to slower breathing will temporarily reduce performance, but you will eventually see improvements as your body acclimates.
[27:11] Nasal Breathing
Listen to the full episode for James’ points on running and breathing!
Nasal breathing leads up to 20% more oxygen absorption compared to mouth breathing, all else being equal.
Nitric oxide is a potent vasodilator that increases blood circulation. Nasal breathing increases nitric oxide concentrations six times more than mouth breathing.
Breathing through the nose is more effective in defending your body against viruses than any other form of breathing.
[38:36] Why Aren’t Breathing Interventions More Popular?
There’s not a lot of money that can come from breathing interventions. Hence, the development of this alternative practice isn’t promoted widely.
That said, James believes that alternative medicine isn’t always the answer. Conventional Western medicine is still crucial for many health interventions.
[41:38] How Modern Diets Changed the Way We Breathe
In antiquity, people always had perfectly straight teeth and larger mouths.
The introduction of industrialised food removed the need for a larger jaw. Evolution drove the shrinking of the human jaw, so more people have crooked teeth or impacted wisdom teeth.
Smaller oral cavities also made breathing more difficult, and the incidence of upper airway resistance syndrome rose.
[44:24] Childhood Feeding
Improper oral posture can root from habitually breathing through the mouth.
When we were younger, chewing was essential. The introduction of baby food prevented infants from performing the right chewing exercises.
Breastfeeding changes the face structure and promotes more efficient breathing.
Children need to eat hard foods to develop a proper jaw and airway.
[48:20] Oral Exercises
Even adults can see improvements in their breathing efficiency by doing basic oral exercises.
After a year of oral exercises, James was able to improve his airway size by around 15% to 20%.
Palate expanders are an option for people who need them. However, oropharyngeal exercises and myofunctional therapy are easier and more effective methods for improving your breathing.
[54:33] Relaxation through Breathing
Slow, focused breathing activates the parasympathetic nervous system, leading to greater relaxation.
Doing breathing exercises several times a day will immensely help you cope better with stress.
Listen to the full episode to learn more about how slow light breathing diaphragmatically stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve.
[59:14] Hormetic Stress
The quickest way to reduce stress is to breathe. It is all about working your respiratory system and working out your stress.
James suggests starting with the foundations of nasal breathing, slow breathing and awareness.
Similar to exercising at the gym, breathing exercises promote hormetic stress. At moderate amounts, hormetic stress is beneficial to human health.
Listen to the full episode to learn more about the Wim Hof Breathing Method!
7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode
‘By mastering this sort of breathing, we can not only dive deep, but we can heat ourselves up, heal ourselves, and do so many other things’.
‘Scientific papers were published about this 115 years ago, showing very clearly that you need a balance of carbon dioxide and oxygen to operate effectively and efficiently. When we breathe too much, we can offload too much CO2, which actually makes it harder for us to bring oxygen throughout the body’.
‘That slower breath with that pressure allows us to gain 20% more oxygen breathing through our nose than equivalent breaths through our mouth.”
‘I think our bodies are the most powerful pharmacists on the planet and that’s been shown, so why not try to focus on your body and health a little bit’?
‘By having a smaller mouth, you have less room to breathe. And this is one of the main reasons so many of us struggle to breathe’.
‘Start slow, start low. See what your body can naturally do. If after six months, you’re like, ‘I’m still not, this isn’t working’, go see someone and take it from there’.
‘I talked to dozens and dozens of people who have fundamentally transformed themselves through nothing more than breathing. I want to mention it again. I’m not promising this is going to work for everyone, for everything, but it needs to be considered as a foundation to health’.
About James
James Nestor is a journalist and bestselling author. He has contributed to many newspapers and publications such asThe New York TimesandScientific American.
His first book,DEEP: Freediving, Renegade Science, and What the Ocean Tells Us about Ourselves, took inspiration from his journalistic coverage of a world freediving championship.
James also authoredBreath: The New Science of a Lost Artwhere he combines thousand-year histories with modern research to shed light on proper breathing. His investigations have revolutionised the conventional understanding of breathing and have helped many people live healthier lives.
His other projects include speaking engagements for institutions, radio and television shows, and collaborations for scientific research and communication.
Learn more about James Nestor and his work on diving and breathing by visiting hiswebsite.
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to Pushing the Limits in this new year. I hope you're enjoying yourself. You've had a good break over the holidays, and I have a fantastic guest today. Wow, this guy is insane. So his name is James Nestor, and he is an author, New York Times best selling author, Wall Street Journal best selling author, London Times New York Times bestselling author of a book calledBreathe. So it's all about breathing. You might think, how the hell do you write a book on breathing. But I tell you, this is going to be a really exciting interview, and you're going to learn so much that you wish you'd been taught years ago.
He's also the author ofDeep, another best selling book that he did on freediving. And he's a filmmaker and science writer for many of the science magazines. Now in this bookBreathe. He explores the million year long history of how the human species has lost the ability to breathe properly. And why we're suffering from a laundry list of maladies from snoring to sleep apnea to asthma to autoimmune diseases and allergies. And in this, on this journey in this book, which was absolutely fascinating. He travels the world and spends a decade in the attempt to figure out what went wrong and how do—we fix it.
And, you know, the links that the sky week two—for his research has just absolutely next level. I really enjoyed doing this interview with James. He's an incredible person. And just so very, very interesting. So I hope you enjoy the show. Before we head over to speak with James in San Francisco, just like to remind you to do a rating and review if you came for the show. This is a labour of love. And it really really helps the show get out there if you can give us a rating and review, either on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Or if you can't work it out, just send me an email with it. And we'll gladly receive those as well.
And if you want to reach out to me if you've got any ideas for podcasts, or people that you would like to see on here, or if you have a question, health question, if you want help with health journey, health optimisation, epigenetics, run coaching, that's our day job. That's what we do for a living. And that's what we are passionate about. And that's what we love. So if you're having trouble with a tricky health issue, if you wanting high-performance, if you're wanting to do that next ultramarathon or first run your first five-kilometer race, whatever the case may be, please reach out to us, lisa@lisatamati.com. And you can find all our programs also on that website, as well as this podcast and lots of other goodies. So I hope you enjoy this interview with James Nestor. Over to the show now and thanks for listening.
Lisa:Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. It's fantastic to have you with me and I am jumping out of my skin for excitement today because I have someone that I've been just so looking forward to interviewing. An amazing author, James Nestor, who is going to be sharing his research and his book, which is really a game-changer. Breathe is the name of the book. And James is coming to us all the way from San Francisco today. So welcome to the show, James. Fabulous to have you.
James Nestor:Thank you for having me.
Lisa:So James, can you just give us a bit of a background into your—who you are in your background? And how the heck did you end up writing a book about breathing? And why do we need to know about it?
James:So I'm a journalist, and I write for science magazines and outdoor magazines. I've been doing that for years and years and years. And I think the real jumping off point for me was when I was sent out to go to Greece to write about the world freediving championship. And even though I've spent my life near the ocean, I'm a surfer. I'm a swimmer and body surfer, all that, I had never really spent too much time under the ocean. And I had never seen anyone freedive before because the water is very cloudy here on the West Coast. There's not a lot of places to do this. So I remember going out in this boat, it was the first day of the competition and just watching these people take a single breath and go down 300, 400 feet on a singledivethere. And come back four minutes later and—just it was like they we're answering emails just like.
Okay, next up, back for lunch. It was what the hell is going on here? I had understood that this was absolutely impossible. And yet here these people vary sizes, various forms - big, tall, large, small, all that - that had mastered this thing. And I got to be friends with a few of them who took me into this other side of freediving outside of the competitive freediving, which I just thought was pretty insane. And they allowed me to understand free diving as this meditation. And of course, breathing is at the core of this meditation. And by mastering the sort of breathing we can not only dive deep, but we can heat ourselves up, heal ourselves and do so many other things.
Lisa:Wow, so that was the jumping off point in, for those interested. Yeah, I've taken an interest in freediving too. And my gosh, what they do is pretty next level, insane. I don't think I'm crazy enough to really have a go at it. To be fair, but absolute admiration for what they do and how they do it, in—the everything that they have to overcome. But okay, so if we just jump in now, the into—how does we know? What can we learn from these free divers and other traditional breathing techniques? And why is it important for the everyday person to be understanding how the breath works in the physiology, which we'll get into which I found absolutely mind blowing and thought, why is nobody told me this? And why did—why does, why should someone listening to this actually be interested?
James:So the free divers told me that the only way to hold your breath is to master this art of breathing. And it was also something interesting to see all of these different people. And they all had these enormous chest, they had expanded their lung capacity. Some people double the average adult lung capacity by forcing. Well, they were not born this way. So it made me think about how malleable the body is depending on what inputs we give to it. And so I got back to San Francisco, and I wrote another book that featured freedivers. But in the back of my mind, that book was calledDeep. And it looks at the human connection from the very surface to the very bottom of the deepest sea, magnetoreception echolocation all that.
But as I was researching that book, and writing, I just kept finding more and more information about breathing, about how so many of us in the West, including in the medical world view breathing as just this binary thing. As long as we were breathing, we're healthy, and we're alive. When you're not breathing, that's bad, your dad or you have a serious problem. But that is such the wrong way of looking at this. It's like saying, as long as you are eating, you're getting food, you're getting nutrients. But it's what you eat. That's so important. And it's how you breathe. That's so important.
So I was lucky enough to then meet a bunch of leading experts in this field who have been studying this stuff for decades, even publishing in these weird scientific journals. No one's been reading their stuff. I thought, why the hell hasn't anyone told me this? Like, I'm middle aged, I've been mouth breathing, through most of my life. I've been whenever I was working out or surfing, I'm just thinking I'm getting more oxygen in. And this is so damaging to the body, and no one was talking about it.
So this book took me so long, because I couldn't understand why some researchers on one side were saying how you breathe has no effect on your asthma, has no effect on your body, on your brain. And this other side was saying they're 100% wrong. Here's all the data. So it was going through all that and weeding through all that that took me a while. But I think at the end, I finally found the truth behind all of this.
Lisa:He certainly did. And the book is such a deep deep dive like you know, and I've been talking to some friends about you know, reading this book and, and everything. How can you have a whole book on breathing? And I'm like, you have no idea. You could probably write 10 books on breathing and it's so powerful. And as an athlete I've, you know, I was just saying to you prior to the recording, I've spent my entire life as an asthmatic since I was two years old. I have a very small lung capacity. I have a low VO2 max, despite that I decided to become an endurance athlete. Go figure that one out, got some mental issues, obviously.
But I'd spent my entire athletic career breathing in my mouth in places like Death Valley, in the Sahara, in the Himalayas, and altitude, and you know, freezing cold temperatures. And all of the problems that that brought and so this book has been a life-changing thing for me personally. Unfortunately, I'm no longer a competitive athlete bagger. You know, like I didn't get the memo back then. But now training hundreds of athletes. Wow, I can start to influence them and change them and are already started to adopt some of the information into the programs that we're using. So super powerful information, and in really important. So, okay, now let's go into a little bit—the physiology of breath because we sort of think if I take deep breaths, and breathe often in faster, if I'm running, then I'm going along. I'm getting as much oxygen as my body can get. Why is that completely upside down?
James:That is upside down. And it's so counterintuitive. It took me months to get my head around this, even though we've known these scientific papers were published on this 115 years ago, showing very clearly that you need a balance of carbon dioxide and oxygen to operate effectively and efficiently. And when we breathe too much, we can offload too much CO2, which actually makes it harder for us to bring oxygen throughout the body.
If you don't believe me right now, you can breathe 20 or 30, heavy breaths. You might feel some tingling in your fingers or some lightness in your head. This is not from an increase of oxygen to these areas, but a decrease of circulation.
Lisa:Wow.
James:Because you need a balance of CO2, for circulation, for vasodilation. This is—it is integral to providing blood and nutrients to our body. And for some reason, as Westerners we just think more is better, more is always more. That is not the way of the proper way of thinking about this when you talk about breathing, you want to breathe as closely in line with your metabolic needs as possible. Why would you?
It's like being in a car. Why would you be revving the motor? Everywhere you're going, I had a stop sign just revving the motor. When you were over breathing. That's exactly what you're doing. You're causing a bunch of wear and tear on your heart on your vascular system. And you're sending stress in those—to your mind. People like you are very strong willed and we'll fight through it right you'll just keep going you're in pain, I don't care. I'm gonna finish this race. I'm gonna make it happen. Compensation is different than health. Oh, and and so this is why so many professional athletes, they'll be really good for a few years. The minute they stopped, diabetes, chronic health problems. Our body..
Lisa:Thyroid, diabetes, metabolic problems. Yeah, like no hell, you've spent your life being a disciplined athlete. I'm struggling with hypothyroid, for example, and high blood sugars. And I'm lean and I'm, you know, it's like what the heck. Like, wow. And I hope through the breathing in some of the other stuff that I'm doing that I can remove some of the damage because you're because it is so counterintuitive. So that carbon dioxide there was a real mind bender for me, because I've always understood carbon dioxide as a negative thing. You know, we want to breathe it out. We want to get it out of the system. That's the end result of you know, what do you call it the electron chain in the ATP production, and we're producing this carbon dioxide, we're gonna give it out.
And that's not the case, isn't it? It's a controller of the acidity in the blood is something that we want to train, our chemoreceptors need to be trained in order to be able to tolerate more carbon dioxide. So this just dive into the winds a little bit on the actual physiology that I've just touched on the air so that we can actually get to the bottom of this carbon dioxide, your mind bender, really.
James:So when we take breath in, it enters into our lungs and the bronchioles, to these little air sacs, the alveoli, and from there it goes through various layers and enters into red blood cells. The vast majority of oxygen enters into red blood. So there's some free floating but not much. So in those red blood cells or something like 270 million hemoglobin, and so then it enters into this hemoglobin. And it's, you know, it's funny, why would when we're working out, why would we get more oxygen in one area than another? So CO2 is the signaling molecule. So where oxygen is going to detach is an areas where there is CO2, and oxygen isn't going to attach otherwise. So you need this healthy balance of CO2, we have 100 times more CO2 in our bodies than we do oxygen.
Lisa:Wow.
James:Okay, so this is this very carefully controlled system that needs to be in balance, and our bodies are so wonderful at keeping us alive. So when we become imbalanced, all these other things happen. If we become too acidic, we'll learn to breathe more, right? We’ll trigger that if we become too alkaline, our kidneys will release bicarbonate. So all of this is incredible and so important.
Compensation, different than health. We can compensate for a very long time. Imagine you can live maybe 40 years eating garbage crap food eating Fritos. That doesn't mean you're healthy. No offense to Fritos. Delicious, absolutely delicious. But, you know, it doesn't mean you're healthy. So…
Lisa:Yeah.
James:...the reason why you have to understand this balance of CO2 and oxygen is because you can't just understand CO2 as a waste product. It's still considered this a medical school. Yeah, you don't need it. But people who study this know that is—it's absolutely essential to have that balance, you don't want too much. But you don't want too little. You want your body to be able to operate at peak efficiency without having to go through all those compensations, right? To keep you there.
Lisa:Exactly. So when we breathe in, we.. When I say, we don't hold our breath, and I'm holding my breath for a long time, as long as I can. And then that's horrible urgency that comes up and you start to—your diaphragm starts to make that sort of hiccup thing. And this is actually the chemoreceptors in the brain, which is the area that is what I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that is measuring the CO2 levels more than anything in the blood, not the oxygen levels. And it's so, the CO2 going up, and then the body's going “Oop, time to breathe,” and it makes you do that, you know, hiccup thing in order to make you breathe. And when I'm doing my breathing exercises that I've learned from you, I let that reflex go for a while while I'm training my body and to be able to accept more carbon dioxide. And that will help me be a better athlete with a bit of a EO2 mix hopefully, and make me faster and so on. But it's the CO2, that's actually pushing the oxygen into the cells as well, isn't it? And that was another, a mind bender as well.
James:It's an exchange. So you can think about those red blood cells as this cruise ship, right? So and they're full of oxygen. And they cruise to areas where there are other passengers that want to get on this is CO2, and they exchange. The CO2 hops on as oxygen hops off. And this is just how it works. So that need to breathe, you're 100% right. A lot of people think, gonna exhale, hold my breath. “Oh, I don't have enough oxygen, I need to breathe.” No, that is dictated by rising carbon dioxide levels. And so many of us are so sensitised to CO2, that we can't hold our breath more than 10 seconds without going.
But they've done a study with athletes. And they found that to very comfortably hold your breath, over 25 seconds, 89% of those athletes will not have any breathing dysfunction. So this is a great practice to do. And this is why this is used in so many different breathing techniques for so long. The ancient Chinese were doing breath holds. Pranayama ancient Hindus were doing breath holds for thousands of years—is to exhale softly. And to hold your breath calmly. You don't want to be struggling and feeling your diaphragm moving. Just calmly, when you feel a little teaspoon of discomfort. You breathe and you calculate how long that is.
Don't look at this as a competition. I know that there's a lot of people out here. No, you can compete later. So what you want to do is to get your CO2 tolerance higher, because by having a higher amount of CO2, which is really a normal amount of CO2, your body can operate better. You will have more circulation. Oxygen will detach more easily. And when you're doing endurance sports, this is what you want. You don't want to use energy for things you don't have to use energy for. You want to be burning clean and tight. And that's what this allows you to do.
Lisa:This is about efficiency isn't and maybe you're saying that the average person is breathing 12 to 18 times a minute, on average. And ideally, we should be around the five and a half or six times a minute would be ideal. “So breathe light to breathe right” was one of the catchphrases that stuck in my head. And that's my trigger for all over breathing again. And so it's actually slowing down our breathing rate and not increasing the volume so much as diaphragmatic breathing. So using the deep, lower lobes of our lungs to actually get the breath end and doing it a lot slower. And why are we all you know, doing it 12 to 18 times a minute and overbreathing? Which is yeah. It is...
James:Sometimes a lot more than that. I mean, I've talked to clinicians who see people breathing 25, 30 times a minute just and they've been doing this for decades, and their bodies are just destroyed.
So it's, these things become a habit after a while and our body gets used to that cycle of compensation. And we start acknowledging this is normal. We started thinking having migraines is normal, having cold toes and cold fingers all the time is normal, being exhausted all the time is normal. None of this is normal. And especially if you look at modern populations of what's considered normal now, I mean, what 15% of Americans have diabetes, 25% have sleep apnea, 10% have autoimmune like, what is going on here? And that this is just accepted that, “Oh, just you know, I've my diabetes...”
Lisa:Aging.
James:...my drugs. So anyway, I'm getting off track here. You when this becomes a habit, again, compensation different than health. And a wonderful practice to try is to breathe in at a rate of about five to six seconds, and breathe out at around that same rate. I put in the book 5.5 yet, but then people have been writing me, saying, 'I'm a half a second off'. Oh, my God. So now I'm saying anything in that range. And if that's too difficult for you, slow it down, go three seconds in three seconds out. It's perfect.
This is not a competition. This is about acclimating your body. So we can't breed this way all the time, that's going to be impossible. But whenever you become aware of your breath, that you're breathing too much, you can bring your breath back by breathing this way and recondition it. And the point of all these exercises is not to think about them. You want to do them often enough, that you're always breathing through your notes that you're always breathing lightly and slowly.
And that range of diaphragmatic movement, especially for athletes, I cannot tell you how essential this is, when you're breathing too much. Okay, here's what's happening, you're breathing up into your chest, which is extremely inefficient. There's more blood further down in your lungs, so can participate much more, much better in gas exchange. But you're also doing something else. You're taking air into your mouth, your throat, your bronchi, bronchioles, none of which participate in gas exchange yet do you bring it in? You go? I'm using maybe 50% of that breath.
If you slow down with the same volume, six laters a minute, to about six or seven breaths, right? Per minute, your efficiency goes up 35%. 35%. And if you're not gonna make a difference, you're running for five hour days. You're crazy. If you look at Kipchoge, check out how he's breathing, you know, an hour and a half, extremely light. He's completely in control, you can hardly see his chest. And he is in the zone.
Sanya Richards-Ross was the top female sprinter in the world for 10 years, check out how she's breathing through the nose in control, destroying everyone else and all of our competitors. So it takes us a while, which is why people don't, you're going to see a decrease in performance when you switch. Okay, guaranteed that it's gonna to go down. If you stick with it, it's gonna go up. I don't want to say that it's true for everyone. But I would say 95% and the breathing experts, the elite trainers I've worked with have told me 100% of the people they've converted, their performance goes up and the recovery is cut by half.
Lisa:Wow. And then I mean, who the hell doesn't want that as an athlete, you're fighting for 1%. So when we're talking, no such mess of possible changes that don't rely on your genetics and don't rely on you know, things that you can't control anyway. And like, for me, transitioning has been hard. I'll be honest, because I was completely congested all the time. And that's why I'd heard that nasal breathing because that’s the next thing we'll discuss that nasal breathing was very, very important for a number of reasons. I didn't really understand why. But I was like, well, I can't breathe through my nose is just blocked the whole time. And I don't have a show on hell of doing that. So well.
Well, I'll carry on doing my breathing. And then when I learn how to decongest my nose and sometimes it will take me two or three breaths. And the first time the first couple of weeks when I was doing it, my nose was running and I wasn't getting anywhere and I'm like, this is not working. But I pushed through that phase. And now I can run for like a team case at a fairly good pace, completely nasal breathing, if I do the warm up phase properly, if I go out the door and just try and do it straight out, the gate won't work, I need to do the walking, holding my breath, and get that cleared first, and then I can get into my training. And then I can hold it in the first 10 minutes, I'm still finding it a little bit like I want to breathe with my mouth, but that instinct is there. But I'm slowly training myself into that system.
And saying, I can actually, you know, I can actually run for a good hour just through my nose without any problems. And I've also not done the high-intensity. So I backed off the super high-intensity, because I know I'm automatically going to open my mouth when it gets to that. So while I'm in this transition phase, I'm not doing anything beyond that sort of aerobic capacity level. And I think I need this just to adapt. So these are huge types of people listening out there, if you are congested, and you think, well, this is all well and good guys, but there's no way in hell that I'm going to be able to breathe through my nose. Think again, there is, it's just a matter of being taught how to do it. And that's a pretty simple couple of exercises that were, you know, that's in the book. It can really, really help us if you persevere through it.
And then I expect to see improvements and my VO2 max and all the rest of it. Now, let's talk a little bit about the reason why it has to be nasal breathing. And so it's not just about breathing slowly. We've talked about breathing slowly, we've talked about diaphragmatic breathing. We've talked about CO2 and the role that we don't want our CO2 levels too low in the body. Let's talk now about the whole. Where was I going James? Help me out. I've just hit a..
James:You wanted to talk about breathing, you want to talk about fitness, you want to talk about nasal breathing.
Lisa:I hit a moment. So nasal. So we want to understand the physiology of the nose and why the nose is what we want to be breathing with rather than our mouth.
James:So I want to mention a few things. A few more things about running. This may seem overkill, but just a couple of points. So what I've heard from various instructors, Patrick McKeown is a world renowned breathing therapist, top got Brian Mackenzie the same thing. Never work out harder than you can breathe correctly. So if you're entering the zone, your mouth is open, slow it down and build your base and work up from there. Sometimes it took Dr John Douillard took him six months to fully acclimate. But once you get there, you are going to find a power in yourself that you did not know existed.
And this has been proven time and time again. When Carl Style was working with the Yale running team and the US Olympic running team. He said that these people suffered way more sicknesses, respiratory problems, asthma, COPD than anyone else. And he said, “They push through it because they're competitors. They're gonna push through it.” A complete mess. So there has to be a slight shift and thinking of like, you have to accept your performance is going to go down for a little bit.
Right now's a good time to do that. We're still in a pandemic. So you know, once things open up, you'll be kicking everyone's ass. And that's not a bad thing. But just know that this is a wave. This is a process. So the reason why you want to be doing this, we'll get to nasal breathing now is I will bring on my guest. He's been waiting over here patiently. Steve, for the people who aren't watching this, I'm holding up a cross section of a human skull. You can see the nose right here. When you breathe through the nose, you're forcing air through this labyrinth.
It's so similar to a seashell. It's called the nasal concha. So seashells have their shells this way to keep invaders out to keep pathogens out. Right? Our noses serve the exact same function. This is our first line of defence. So when we breathe through our nose, we're heating air which is important in cold climates where humidifying it, which is very important in dry climates. We're pressurizing it, we're conditioning it, we're removing particulate which is important, if you live in a city or basically anywhere else now. We're helping to fight more viruses. So there will be a smaller viral load breathing through the nose. And we condition this air so by the time it enters our lungs, it is properly conditioned to be more easily absorbed. When you're breathing through your mouth. You can consider the lungs as an external organ. Yeah, because they're just exposed to everything in your environment. So not only that, not only is this the most effective filter we have is it forces us to breathe more slowly. This is a self-regulating device. Yeah. How long did it take me to take that breath took a while? How long does this take? Yeah, nothing. So that's slower breath with that pressure allows us to gain 20% more oxygen breathing through our nose than equivalent breaths through our mouth. Again, if you think this is gonna make no difference to, you you're absolutely crazy. And this is simple science. You know, this isn't controversial stuff.
Lisa:No, this is simple science, but not well, knowing until your book came out and became a worldwide best selling book. Thank goodness because this stuff needs to be out there. And I'm called silly because I'm deep in the waves and in researching all the time. And by hacking and the latest longevity, and the goodness knows what I'm just always into the latest and greatest. And I'm constantly surprised at how you know that some fantastic information never sees the light of day, because of the systems that are in place, or traditions and laws and stuff. And it's like, wow, we have to get this information out there.
And this is one of those times when I'm thinking thank goodness, someone has put this into a book that's readable for people to understand the science without having to do such a deep dive themselves. And I think that that's really important. And that nasal, you know, nasal breathing. Also, it does another thing that I found really, really interesting was all about the nitric oxide. Can you explain what nitric oxide is and what it does in the body and why the nose is so important in that regard?
James:Nitric oxide is this amazing molecule that our bodies produce that plays a central role in vasodilation. Having more nitric oxide will decrease your chances of having a stroke, will decrease your chances of having a heart attack. It will increase circulation to your brain. I mean, I can go on and on here. It's no coincidence that the drugs Sildenafil also known as viagra, guess what it does, it releases nitric oxide in your body. That's how it cleans. Yeah, we get six times.
One study showed that we get six times more nitric oxide breathing through our nose than we do through our mouth. And if we hum we get 15 times more nitric oxide. So this has an incredible effect on the body and especially now there are 11 clinical trials right now where they're giving patients with COVID. Guess what? Nitric oxide. And apparently, according to Nobel Laureate, Louis Ignarro, oh, it's working wonderfully well in these. Studies are going to be out soon. I heard something. My brother in law's an ER doctor, my father in law's a pulmonologist. So we talk all about this stuff. And the vast majority of the people suffering the worst symptoms of COVID are people with chronic inflammation.
And as an opposite, very observational study. There are also mouth breathers. Yeah. And this was known 100 years ago, they were saying 75 to 80% of the people with tuberculosis are mouth breathers, chronic mouth breather. So there's been no official study on this just this is just observational stuff. Don't go write me about this, that your nasal breathing got COVID. It can happen.
Lisa:Can happen still, we're not saying that.
James:It's to me, but we know that can happen. But we also know something else. That breathing through the nose will help you defend your bodies so much more effectively, against viruses. And this is what Louis Ignarro again, he won a Nobel Prize. So listen to that guy, if you're not gonna listen...
Lisa:Yes and I've actually I've heard Dr Ignarro speak a number of times, and I'm hoping I can get him on my podcast to actually just to talk a whole session on nitric oxide and what he discovered, because he he won a prize for discovering this, this gas if you like in the body, because nobody really understood what it was or how it operated.
And it is being used for Viagra. And the reason it works for that is that it expands and dilates the blood vessels, but that's what's actually doing it and all parts of our body. And therefore when we're doing this nasal breathing, and we're getting more of that nitric oxide and I mean, a lot of the athletic supplements that you can get now in your corner supplement store are about, you know, drinking beetroot juice or whatever increases your nitric oxide. So this is another way to get at an info for you athletes out there. You want better performance, you know, a lot of my athletes are on beetroot juice and things like that. Just nasal breathing is another way of doing that. You know, so that's a really big piece of the puzzle, I think.
James:And those don't work. They certainly work but the key was so much of this just like with a key with oxygen. You don't like, go and get a bunch of oxygen for five minutes, then walk away so I'll fix them. You want to constantly be producing this stuff. So beet juice, you know what we'll work for a short amount of time. But to me, it seems like a much better idea to use something that we're naturally gifted with to use our nose. And to constantly be having a body that can constantly produce a healthy healthy level of nitric oxide. I drink beet juice.
I'm a big fan of that, the nitrates and other vegetables can help release more nitric oxide. Great stuff, right? But nasal how often can you be drinking beet juice, you don't want to be drinking that 10 times sugar in it.
Lisa:No. There's a lot of sugar in it.
James:There’s a lot of sugar in it and you know, occasionally is great, but there's other ways of doing this. And you know, I think our bodies are the most powerful pharmacists on the planet and that's been shown so why not try to focus on your body and health a little bit? Well last thing I want to mention that I just find, is so frustrating here in the US is all this talk of COVID all this talk of you know wear a mask, which I'm a believer in that stay at home. I'm a believer in that. Zero talk about not eating four double cheeseburgers a day.
Lisa:Hey, mean.
James:Ola, like getting your health and breathing through your nose. like where's that conversation? Getting vitamin D, getting vitamin C. And so anyway, we've seen what the government's you guys have a much more progressive government, let me tell you, we're so jealous of it. But now we have the whole...
Lisa:We’ll be a medical society, though there's nothing. It's not that late. But yeah, and I've had a number of episodes, I've just done a five part series on vitamin C, and intravenous vitamin C, and cancer, and sepsis. And, you know, the whole gamut in the problems there. In this, every single doctor has said to me too, when it comes to COVID, why aren't we building up our immune system so that we don't get people in our ICU on ventilators? You know, so that we don't get to that point, or we have less people and, you know, that just seems like a no brainer to me, but we're still promoting eating crap and drinking crap. And, you know, and not taking into account. It's, yes, I mean, the vaccines and all that, but how about we just take a little bit of self-responsibility we might not have as bad if we do get it.
You know, like I've got a mum. I've just written a book calledRelentlessthat my listeners know about and it was about rehabilitating my mum back from an aneurysm four and a half years ago, where she hit massive aneurysm. Hardly any higher function, I was told, like, should never do anything. Again, I spent four and a half years rehabilitating her and she's completely normal. Again, she's driving the car, she's walking, jogging, everything's fine. And this is why I've ended up doing what I do, because I'm very passionate, because none. And I mean, none of this was offered in the standard medical system that we were in. They were great at the surgeries, they were great in the crisis.
But when it came to rehabilitation, there was just nothing there, and so I discovered all of these things. And one of the passions I have is just staying one step ahead of here and giving her the next thing now she's 79 years old, I want to keep her healthy. So when COVID threatened us, you know, I've, you know, got over there in the corner, my hyperbaric oxygen chamber, my ozone over the air, and, you know, you name it. I've got it so that if it does come, we prepared as prepared as we can be. And that is a good approach, I think prevention, rather than waiting for the disaster, and then trying to pick up the pieces at the end of the day. You know?
James:Yeah, and I just want to be clear, and I know that you're saying the same thing here. There's, doctors in my family that practice Western medicine who've helped people, when I get a car accident, last thing I want is acupuncture. I want to go to the ER and have somebody say, “Sir, I break a bone. I'm not doing pranayama breath work, I'm going to go and get a cast.” But about rehabilitation. This is 100% true, because it costs a lot of money.
There's no way a system can support full rehabilitation. And one thing that I've heard from almost every expert in the field, whether it's a professor at a university, or an MD, or a nutritionist, or whatever is they believe, this isn't my view. This is their view. I want to be objective here but they believe that there's a reason people aren't talking about breathing again. It's, there's no money in it. There's a money. Oh, why the US government isn't saying “Don't go to McDonald's today.” That's going to shut the economy down. So the good news about this is people who are interested want to take control of their health. There are now other means of getting information from people who have studied this stuff, people who are into scientific references, who are looking at science in a real objective way.
And so I view this thing, hopefully, this is going to be a lesson we can all learn then that we can acknowledge how incredible the human body is, how we become susceptible to illness, and how to better defend ourselves in the future.
Lisa:I'm just so on board with all of that. And I think it's our right and this is a problem we do. You know, we love Western medicine, they do some brilliant things. I love naturopathic medicine, I love alternative, complementary, whatever you integrate, or whatever you want to call it.
We've all got deficits, and we've all got blind spots, and every single piece of this. And it's about bringing the whole lot together, and not letting money rule the world. I think is, if we can ever get to that point, that would be fantastic because it is at the moment. And there's a lot of things that are being hindered, like things, simple things like breath work, like stress reduction, like intravenous vitamin C's, like things that don't, nobody can make money at, or hyperbaric oxygen is not going to make millions for anybody. So it's not getting out there, that information is not getting out there. And it needs to be out there.
We got I reckon we could talk for days, the job's because we were obviously on the same track. But I wanted to touch on a couple of areas. One was the whole skeletal muscle record of our ancestors and our facial, you know, our whole facial development and why that's part of the problem and the food problem, the mushy food that we eat today. And then remind me to talk briefly about the immune system and all this inveigled the vagus nerve and stuff. So let's start with though, with the skeletal record, and the difference between our ancestors and how we are today.
James:So early on in my research, I started hearing these stories about how humans used to have perfectly straight teeth and I don't know if you're like me. I had extractions, braces, headgear, you name it, every single person I knew had the same thing. It was never if it was just went this is what how it was done. At wisdom teeth removed. If you think about how weird that is, you're like, why are we removing teeth? From our mouths? Why are teeth so crooked? Where if you look at any other animal in the wild, they all have perfectly straight teeth. And what I learned was that all of our ancestors, before industrialisation, before farming, any hunter-gatherer all had perfectly straight teeth. So I went to a museum and looked at hundreds of skulls, and they all stared back at me, these perfectly straight teeth. Completely freaked me out.
They had these very broad jaws, wide nasal apertures forward, growing powerful faces. So if you have a face that grows this way, and you have a mouth that's wide enough for your teeth, you have a wider airway. Having a smaller mouth, you have less room to breathe. And this is one of the main reasons so many of us struggle to breathe, we have upper airway resistance syndrome, sleep apnea, snoring, and so many other respiratory issues is because there's less room in there. And what happened is this came on, in a blink of an eye with industrialised food in a single generation.
People went from having perfectly straight teeth, wider nasal apertures, to having crooked teeth and smaller mouths and a different facial profile. And this has been documented time and time again. Yet I had learned in school, which for me, it was zillion years ago that this was evolution-meant progress we're getting we're always getting younger, you're getting taller, we're getting better, look around the day and ask yourself if that's true, it's complete garbage. And then I went back and looked at the real definition of what evolution means. All it means is change and you can change for the better, or for the worse. And humans, as far as our breathing concern is concerned, are changing very much for the worse.
Lisa:Wow. And so we're, I mean, I'm saying I grew up have had so many extractions and teeth completely crooked and a tiny little mouth and all of those sort of problems that you're describing. So what was it that their ancestors did differently? So it was just the food being not we not chewing as much was that basically? Yes, like that's that was a real chain game changer for us when the industrialisation happened and we got mushy food.
James:There were many inputs, chewing is the main one. So when you live in an extremely polluted environment, sometimes your nose can get plugged, right? You start breathing through your mouth, that can create respiratory problems, but if you breathe through your mouth long enough, your face grows that way actually changes the skeletal picture of your face. So that's another input improper oral posture is what that is called, but it's for when you're younger chewing is so essential and it starts with breastfeeding.
There were no Gerbers food. I don't know if you have that out there, but there were no, like, soft foods. Just a few 100 years ago. So if you think about it, so now we're eating the soft processed foods right out of the gates. We're going, we're being fed on a bottle, soft processes. All of our mouths are too small and too crooked. So this chewing stress starts at birth. They've done various studies looking at kids who were bottle fed versus those who are breastfed.
When you're breastfed, your face pulls out your mouth, gets wider because it takes a lot of stress to do. Two hours a day, like every day, every two hours, you're doing it. And literally, and I've talked to parents who had twins, I just talked to a lady yesterday who bottle fed one did love not want to be breast fed breast fed the other. They look totally different. One has crooked teeth, one has autoimmune problems. One has swollen tonsils, the other doesn’t. So that is anecdotal.
But there's been studies in the 1930s they did tons of studies into this. So I'm a dude, I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone they breastfed people for that is not my point yet. But some people just can't. But I think it's important to acknowledge that the physics of how this works. And after that, if you have bottle fed a kid that's fine. But they need to start eating hard foods baby led weaning, this is what needs to happen to develop that proper jaw to develop that proper airway.
And even if you don't do that, if you then go to soft foods, and your kid is two to three years old, and it's snoring or sleep apnea, which is so common now it's so tragic, because that leads to neurological disorders, ADHD, again. This isn't crazy New Agey. This was at Stanford, there's 50 years of research on this from the top institution here. So there are direct links between those things, but luckily we have technologies now that can help restore to the mouth to the way it was supposed to have been before industrialisation. They actually widened the mouth of these small little kids, and open their airways, and it drastically improves their health.
Lisa:Today so it's palatal expanders that you you tried out and actually isn't even as an adult was you developed I remember it was at eight coins worth of new bone in your in your face and in a year or something crazy so we can still so if you've missed about if you've not received your kids or your you didn't get that yourself or whatever, it's not all over there is things that you can start doing even starting just to chew now like that to eat some carrots and whatever you know, whatever hard foods you can find to actually use those that powerful joy in order to make it stronger.
It's just like every other muscle in the body isn't it? And when we're mouth breathing to our remember you saying or the muscles here get lax and flattered and just like any other muscle that we're not training, if we're if we're going to mouth open all night and we're you know, then we're causing those muscles to be lax and over time that that leads into sleep apnea and things as well can do. So yeah, so this is something that we can practically get a hold on now even if it's a bit late for you and I think.
James:Yeah, I talked to my mum I was bottle fed after like six months my mum was like six months is a long time when I was growing up bottle fed soft foods industrialized crap my off intel I was you know 25 and it discovered these things called vegetables. But you know, so so this isn't pointing the finger at anyone we were sold this story by our governments that said you shouldn't eat mostly refined grains, eat your Cheerios, eat your bread, or crema wheat eat your oatmeal like that this is eat your sugar, that's good. Eat your chocolate milk, you know, so we have knowledge now we know the folly of our ways.
But the one thing that was inspiring to me this is easier to do, when you've got a developing kid quickly growing it, you can set the foundation and their face will grow around like their faces grow different. It's just, it's beautiful to see how the body forms to its inputs. So I, you know, youth was several decades ago for me, for far too long. I was a child of the 70s and 80s. Right? Yeah, we thought I thought once you're in middle age, you're completely screwed. What can you do, but that is just a convenient excuse for people to say, “Oh, it's genetics. Oh, I inherited this.”
Like genes turn on but they can also be turned off and so I wanted to see what how I could improve my airway health in a year and so I took a CAT scan, and I did proper oral posture, you're 100% right when, when you're just eating soft, mushy food in your mouth is open. All of those tissues can grow really flabby just like anywhere else on your body. But if you exercise them if you exercise the jaw, the strongest muscle in the body, you know, for its size, the tongue, extremely powerful muscle, you exercise these things, they get tone like anything else. And this can help open your airways. So this is just an anecdote, this was my experience, it'll probably be different for other people. But I did a number of these things.
And a year later to the week, I took another CAT scan, and the results were analysed by the Mayo Clinic, which is one of the top hospitals here. And they found that I increased my airway size about 15 to 20%. In some areas, and I can't tell you just as a personal story, it has absolutely transformed my life because I can breathe so much more easily through my nose. At night. I am silent. I didn't snore before but I was knowing that my wife would always tell me, totally silent now. And of course I am because I have a larger airway, things are more toned air can enter more easily.
Lisa:Is it easy to find palace expanders are these like any a couple of dentists in the world doing this sort of stuff?
James:Not everyone needs palatal expansion. I've gotten so many hundreds of emails of people, you know how we are, it's like, what's the latest thing, oh, there's a new pill, there's a new device. Oh, I get it, that's gonna solve all my problems. So they can really help people who need it just like surgical interventions. For people who have severe problems in their nose are a huge help. They're transformative. What I found is a lot of people don't need that. And what I firmly believe is start slow, start low, see what your body can naturally do. If after six months, you're like, ‘I'm still not this isn't working,’ go see someone you know, and take it from there.
But palatal expansion absolutely works for people who really need it, but you would be amazed by just doing something called oral-pharyngeal exercises. There was a study out in chest, which is one of the top medical journals, you know, they found this significantly cut down on snoring, not lightly, significantly. And all it is, is exercising the tongue, roof of the mouth, proper oral posture, just working out this area. Toning it, of course, that's gonna help you if this is flabby and hasn't been to..
Lisa:The gym for your mouth.
James:That's what it is. And I view that world, there's a whole separate school called myofunctional therapy that is helping people do this, which is so beneficial. They focus mostly on kids, but they also work with adults. And this is what they do. They are the instructors, the gym instructors, for your mouth and for your airwaves. And I strongly recommend people looking that up, there's a bunch of instructionals for free on YouTube, you can go that route as well.
Lisa:Oh, brilliant, we'll link to some of those on your website. And, you know, I get people those resources. It's just, it's just amazing and fascinating stuff. And who would have thought this conversation would go so deep and wide, I wanted to just finish up then with talking about the immune system and stress reduction and vagus nerves and all of us area too, because, you know, me included in this and most people are dealing with, you know, massive levels of stress, and breathing can I've, since I've read your book, and I was really, you know, quite aware of how to bring my stress levels down and movements and the importance of you know, yoga and all those sorts of things.
I've had that piece of the puzzle sort of dialed in, if you like, but the breathing exercises and actually calming the nervous system down within minutes. Now I can fall asleep in seconds. And you know, what seconds is a bit exaggerated but minutes, and I can I can take myself from being in this emotionally, my god and i tend to be like that because I'm like, you know, busy, busy, busy. And then go, “Hey, I'm spinning out of control. I've lost control of my breath. And I hear myself and I pick myself up on it now.”
And I go and do two minutes of breathing exercises. That's you know if that's all I can afford to do, and I can switch into parasympathetic now, that's been gold. Can you just explain why the heck does doing this slow light breathingdiaphragmaticallystimulate the parasympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve from what's actually going on there?
James:Sure. So what people can do now is take a hand and you can place it on your heart. And you can breathe into rate of about three seconds and try to breathe out to about six to eight seconds, just whatever's comfortable. Now, breathe in again. 123 and exhale. And as you're exhaling out very softly, you're going to feel your heart rate, get lower and lower. And lower. So when you are exhaling, you're stimulating that parasympathetic side of your nervous system, our breath can actually hack our nervous system function.
And by exhaling more, and taking these long and fluid breaths, you can trigger all of those wonderful things that happen when you're parasympathetic. You reduce inflammation very quickly. You send signals to your brain to calm down. You actually change how your brain is operating the connectivity before the between the prefrontal cortex and the emotional centers of the brain changes when you slow your breathing.
So throughout the day, if you want to remain balanced, you take those soft and easy light, low breaths, to account of whatever's comfortable, three, four, even up to six, and six out. But if at some times you feel “My stress levels are starting to increase. I'm feeling my mind slip. I'm making rash decisions.” Start extending the exhale. An exercise I like to do is inhale to about four, exhale to six, you don't have to do it that long. Inhale, two, three, exhale to five, whatever's comfortable, as long as that exhale is longer, you're gonna feel your body slowing down.
And if you don't believe me, all you need to do is get your heart rate variability, monitor your pulse oximeter and take a look at what happens after 30 seconds of slow, focused breathing. And you will see this transformation occur in your body, if that can happen in a couple minutes, what's going to happen to you after a couple of hours of taking control of your breathing, or a couple of days, or a couple of months.
I'll tell you what's going to happen. I talked to dozens and dozens of people who have fundamentally transformed themselves through nothing more than breathing. I want to mention again, I'm not promising this is going to work for everyone for everything. But it needs to be considered as a foundation to health.
Lisa:And you need to stick at it for a little bit. And you know, I do my HIV monitoring every morning before I get out of bed and do my breath holding exercises and look at my boat score from Patrick McKeown. And you know, all that sort of stuff. Before I even put my feet on the floor, and I yeah, I can control my heart rate to a degree just through my birth weight. So I know this works. And I know that when I do a longer exhale from that, and compared to the inhale, immediately, I just feel a bit more calmer, and a bit more in control.
And it's reminding myself and this is the trick because we, when we're in the middle of work, and we've got meetings and phones are going and emails are coming at us, and it's like the “Lions are chasing me.” And it's been trying to remember to breathe in. Bring yourself down and calm yourself down. And just take that couple of minutes many times a day, you know, depending on how stressful Your life is. And in doing that on a regular basis, over time will have massive implications. Because we're talking here, your digestion. You digest food better if you're in a parasympathetic state versus a sympathetic, your immune system.
Again, coming back to COVID in that conversation, you're going to be improved, you know, your hormone balance. Yeah, just to fix everything, the way your, the brain waves, all of these things are going to be affected by your stress levels. And what is the easiest quickest way to reduce your stress? You breathe. So I think you know, that's a that's a really, really top tip. This just before we wind up and I've taken enough of your time, James but I you did in the, towards the end of the book, you went into some extreme super breathing practices, which because I was like, wow, okay, because I you know, read all about Wim Hof and looked at his breathing techniques.
And I was like, wow, how how does that work, then? Because I'm over breathing when I'm doing that. How does that work? What is there a specific time when that type of breathing or the extreme breathing one pops just one of them? But you know, is there a reason to be doing that type of extreme breathing stuff? Or can it help? Or is it just for crazy like good, crazy, but crazy.
James:Seems so counterintuitive, after learning about all these benefits of breathing less and breathing lightly, to then practice something where you're breathing like this. Yeah, and I was like, What is going on here? These are two completely opposite things. But think about those breathing practices like going to the gym. You're not going to go to the gym for 24 hours a day you're going to destroy your body, but going to the gym for half an hour and working out going to the gym for an hour and working out says huge benefits to so these breathing practices are all about working out the body and working out the respiratory system and working out your stress.
Okay? So they purposely stress you out. A lot of people think “I don't want to stress that, why do I want to do something that stresses you out?” The point is, they teach you to control your stress, you consciously bring stress on, and then you consciously turn it off. And this hormetic stress, these short bursts of stress are so beneficial to our bodies, because we are not meant to be sitting on soft sofas and soft beds, eating soft foods, watching soft TV programming all day, we're meant to work out sometimes. And that's what these are so effective for doing. Some people find them jarring if they haven't done any breath work.
So I suggest people start with that foundation of nasal breathing, breathing, awareness, breathing slowly and all that. But for some people for whom nothing else's work, no other drug has worked. I'm talking about people with autoimmune diseases, rheumatoid arthritis, even amass of psoriasis. I mean, the list goes on and on. I've seen this time and time again. And the science is very clear that this hormetic stress, doing this in a controlled way, allows you to decrease inflammation for the other 23 and a half hours of the day, which is exactly what the parasympathetic state does.
So I love what you call Wim Hof Method, he's the first person to say I talked to Wim semi often I love what he's doing. He's such a cheerleader, he changed people's lives. Love the guy. He knows this isn't his method. This is 1000 year old stuff, you can call it Sudarshan Kriya, you can call it pranayama. Whatever all these methods are so similar, because they do the same thing. They have you breathe very intensely. And then they have you hold your breath or not breathe at all. And then they have to breathe very intensely.
So this is the interval training, you see what's going on here. So this is HIT training for the respiratory system. I'm a huge fan of it. I use it as much as I can. I've seen big benefits to it. And it so happens to be right down the stream from me at University of California, San Francisco, Dr. Alyssa Apple, who is the expert in telomeres, had a famous book out a couple years ago. She's now studying this stuff, breathing and arthritis. And her study is coming out next month. I'm talking to her next, next week. So this stuff in, in my view, especially with athletes, the people getting the calls now are people that are focusing on breathing Brian Mackenzie elite in stride, length is Brian. He's doing this is all he's doing now.
Lisa:Yeah, these guys are just on the next level. And when I first read the book, and I you know, read Patrick's too. And I was like, hang on, I don't get this because I was into the Wim Hof stuff. And I was like, yeah, I'm doing that sort of stuff. And but, you've just really clarified that for me, actually put that into sort of mistake, that part of it. That it is, like the intense interval training. So you don't want to be doing this 24 seven, you know, you want to do this with a specific purpose for a specific short period of time to create a stress just like you do when you go in train your backside off, and then you come back and you recover from that and it just that push and pull.
And on you're so right, like, we and this is an issue in our, in our world now we are so comfortable. We are so warm all the time and cozy, you know, in our clothes, clothes and their cozy houses and our cozy cars and now we never get outside and we need as human beings to be pushed and pulled and out in up and down and have challenge, you know, challenge both mentally and physically. I think to keep ourselves strong and we don't, that's when we you know, fade away and have problems and get sick and all those sorts of things. So I'm a big, you know, mean, pushing the limits is the name of my podcast for crying out loud. You know.
James:I actually talked to Patrick quite often, we correspond all the time. He and Anders Olsson told me at the beginning they're like, Oh, this heavy braid. This is bad. This is bad. Yeah, Patrick's come around now. Worst wins book. He's like, Wow, this is great stuff. So he's starting to incorporate this stuff. Because again, it's Westerners, it's we always think, it's needs to be one or the other. You're the slow breather, you're the fast breather, your paleo or your vegan, your kid. These things all have benefits to me. They're more tools in the toolbox to use at different times. And we're showing this these short periods of intense breathing can really be this pressure release valve for stress.
And I'd be surprised if someone does the Wim Hof Method or Tummo. I'd be surprised if anyone is feeling more stressed after that. I mean to me, I find this is a very powerful tool. I use it before sleep sometimes, man the second my head hits the pillow. I'm gone in about eight hours. And that's what you want. That's brilliant. And it's good to Yeah, that Patrick's saying that, that Toby and Patrick's coming on the show in a few weeks time, so I'll ask him about it. Because I, you know, like I've been fooled do I, you know, because I've been doing the Wim Hof stuff previously, and now I've like, all backed off of it.
But now I might have another crack at it again, and go a little bit deeper and just see if I can, you know, get to the next level. Because I mean, there's slow breathing for most of the time and certainly controlled in the in the training, and then there in the running and so on, is what you want to be doing most of the time, but we want these little stressors, these are medic stressors in order to improve and…
James:Guess how one breathes the rest of the time. He rolls through his nose. Yeah, really slowly. And he hums a lot. Increase nitric oxide. So this is everyone sees him as the maniac screaming at you to breathe, and they don't see him the other 23 and a half hours a day where he's very chill, you know? So this is again, it's not one or the other. It's able to look at the benefits of all these things, just like the benefits of all these different foods that pick out the ones that work for you and to use them.
Lisa:Excellent. I think that's a beautiful place to wrap it up. James, thank you so much for writing this incredible book, and for sharing your knowledge and spending so many years because I know this was a lot of years of research that went into this. Please everybody go out there and buy this book. Get the word out there, share it with your friends and family the links will be in the show notes. But James, where can people find you and in your book and where they best to get it?
James:My website is a good place to start. I've listed all of the scientific references because I know this stuff sounds completely wacko. You can see videos, you can see expert Q and A's with a Harvard professors. There's exercises from Johns Hopkins. All of this is free. And it's atmrjamesnestor.com. There's links to the book too, because the how of breathing is the easy part. It's to me I found the more interesting story was the, what does it do? Where does this come from? You know? In what ways can it help benefit us and that's what I focused on. I'm also on Instagram trying to get better at this social media crap. And I'm posting things related to only breathing there.
Lisa:Yeah, Instagram, you probably need to do a bit of Wim Hof before you jump on it because all the social media has drives me nuts too. But we have to do it. We live in this world. We do James, thank you so much. It's been an absolute honour to meet you. And I'm really, really grateful to you.
James:You have to promise in six months after continuing to nasal breathe and work out. I want to hear a full report on where your endurance levels are and your performance levels.
Lisa:You got it, maybe I'll be competing again with Lenovo. That's great. Thanks a lot for having me.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team atlisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
08 Jun 2017
Ep 14: Pro surfer Maz Quinn on Pushing the Limits
00:57:35
Maz Quinn is New Zealand's best known and most successful surfer.
A four-time winner of New Zealand's national surfing championships, and winner of the 1996 Billabong Pro-Junior Series, Quinn comes from a surfing mad family - his younger brother Jay and sister Holly have both won national titles, his mother is an advocate for Women's surfing and his father was a national official.
During the 1990s, Quinn took part in the World Qualifying Series and in 1999 Maz became the first New Zealander to win a WQS event and in 2001 he became the first New Zealander ever to qualify for the World Championship Tour, in doing so becoming one of the world's top 44 ranked male surfers.
In 2009, Quinn helped to stage the Quiksilver Maz Quinn King of the Groms, a national surfing event for youth.
In this interview Lisa finds out from Maz what it's like to be on the world tour, what the pressures are like, how hard it is to qualify, the setbacks and successes along the way, how it feels to surf alongside legends of the sport like Kelly Slater and how he faces up to his fears when surfing the big waves. Maz opens up about how his parents guidance put him early in his life on the right road and what life has been like after the lights went down and the circus of the tour was over.
He talks about women in surfing, the state of the tour now and what surfing holds for the future and hones insights from his sport for life.
28 Mar 2024
Understanding The NAD Story - Why NMN Is Not The Whole Story With Lisa Tamati
00:33:34
This week on "Pushing the limits" we delve deep into the world of cellular health, focusing on NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide) – the vital molecule that powers every cell in your body. Discover the intricacies of the NAD salvage pathway, the critical role of CD38 in NAD metabolism and how it impacts aging and cellular function. We'll explore groundbreaking research on NAMPT and NNMT enzymes and unveil the top supplements that support NAD levels for enhanced vitality and longevity. Whether you're a health enthusiast, a biohacker or someone looking to turn back the clock on cellular aging, this video is your ultimate guide to understanding and optimizing your body's NAD levels.
Key Topics Covered:
The importance of NAD in cellular health and aging.
An overview of the NAD salvage pathway.
The impact of CD38 on NAD depletion and how to counteract its effects.
In-depth analysis of NAMPT and NNMT enzymes in NAD synthesis.
Evidence-based supplements that boost NAD levels and support cellular rejuvenation.
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Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN)
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Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
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Fear can be debilitating. It's natural that we all experience fear and it's part of being human but if we don't want to be limited in our potential by fear, if we want to push outside our existing boundaries and expand our horizons and if we want to to be high performance and to bring our best when it counts then it pays to learn the strategies you need to control your physiology better and how to reframe the stories running in your head.
In this episode mental toughness coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff give you their best insights into how to stop fear ruling your life and how they integrate the tools and techniques into their lives.
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What's included Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)
Run video analysis and review
Drills and skills for runners
Core and strength training for runners
Flexibility and mobility for runners
Nutrition for runners
Mindset training
Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)
Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)
Putting it all together into a programme that works for you
2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show.Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional
29 Feb 2024
Gastroenterology And The Microbiome - Optimising Your Health Through The Lens Of Your Gut With Associate Professor Edmund Leung
01:03:05
In this weeks episode of Pushing the Limits I interview the esteemed Associate Professor Edmund Leung. A gastro enterologist and surgeon.
What you will learn in this episode:
What is gastroenterology
How the study of the microbiome intersects with the gastrointestinal surgery.
How can we support the health of our digestive system
The definitions of common ailments from IBD to Crohns to Coeliac
A deep dive in Lipopolysaccharides (LPS) and their impact on the health as a whole.
Leaky gut, zonulin, Secretory IgA, SIBOT
The impact of the gallbladder on the health of the gut
The impact of the gut on mood and behavior
The function of Butyrate
The differences between a colonoscopy and a Colonography CT and the pros and cons
Screening for cancer
The pancreas and it's role
Our gut it the seat of much of our immune system and understanding your intestinal system and how to improve your health through this lens is crucial to anyone wanting to optimize their longevity and slow ageing.
Bio
Associate Professor Edmund Leung - General Surgeon
Edmund came to New Plymouth with his family just before the Covid pandemic from UK. He had been a senior lecturer and consultant gastrointestinal surgeon in UK for many years. Ed graduated medical school in London in the late 1990s and spent his surgical career in middle England, where he obtained his surgical fellowship and research doctorate in bowel cancer. At the end of Ed's fellowship, Ed spent some time in Basingstoke, UK, with Professor Bill Heald and Professor Brendan Moran further subspecialising within the fields of pelvic cancer.
Outside Ed's clinical duties, he is an active Surgical Oncology examiner for European Board of Surgery and a training convenor for the Royal College of Surgeons with now over 80 peer-reviewed publications. Ed has peer-reviewed over 300 medical journal manuscripts. Furthermore, Ed is also the International Ambassador for the British Association of Surgical Oncology, actively promoting better training, delivery of care and public awareness on cancer surgery. In 2019, Edmund was the winner of the British Silver Scalpel Surgeon of the Year.
Interests
Interventional and diagnostic gastroscopy and colonoscopy
Laparoscopic cholecystectomy
Hernia (Laparoscopic or open)
Skin tumours
Abdominal pain and adhesions
Irritable bowel syndrome
Haemorrhoidal surgery and other anal conditions: fistulae, fissures, proctalgia
Pilonidal Surgery: Simple excision to Limberg flap
Major open and laparoscopic Surgery: Cancer, Diverticular disease and Inflammatory Bowel Disease
TAMIS (Transanal minimal invasive Surgery)
Pelvic floor disorders: obstructed defaecation, functional incontinence/constipation and prolapse
Abdominal and groin hernia repair including parastomal hernia repair (open and laparoscopic)
Title or Designation General Surgeon
Post-Fellowship Training - MBBS, MRCS (General Surgery), DMedSci (Molecular immunology), JAG (Endoscopy), FRCS (Colorectal), FEBS (Surg Oncology) - Honorary Associate Professor of Surgery (Auckland)
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Unveiling The Secret To Longevity: 1-MNA And The NAD Pathway With Courtney Van Bussum
01:09:24
In this episode, we dive deep into the science of longevity with Courtney Van Bussum, COO of Longevity Launch Labs. Courtney shares her insights on the NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide) pathway, a critical component in the aging process and how we can leverage it for longevity optimization. We explore the fascinating molecule 1-MNA (1-Methylnicotinamide), its unique role in the body, and how it helps lower levels of the NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase) enzyme, which is associated with various age-related diseases and metabolic disorders.
Key Topics Discussed:
Introduction to the NAD Pathway:
Overview of the NAD pathway and its significance in cellular metabolism and aging.
The role of NAD+ in DNA repair, energy production, and maintaining cellular health.
Understanding 1-MNA (1-Methylnicotinamide):
What is 1-MNA, and what is it's role in the NAD story.
The unique properties of 1-MNA and its potential as a longevity molecule.
The NNMT Enzyme and Its Implications for Health:
Explanation of NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase) and its impact on metabolic health and aging.
How elevated NNMT levels are linked to obesity, cancer, diabetes, and other age-related diseases.
How 1-MNA Lowers NNMT Levels:
The mechanism by which 1-MNA reduces NNMT activity, promoting healthier aging.
Potential benefits of 1-MNA in reducing inflammation, improving metabolism, and supporting overall health.
How the immune system and NAD pathways are both key to longevity and health optimisation and how we can leverage and optimise both as we age.
Longevity Optimization Strategies:
How targeting the NAD pathway and modulating NNMT activity can be part of a comprehensive longevity strategy.
Practical tips for integrating 1-MNA and other NAD-boosting supplements into your daily routine.
Courtney's Vision for the Future of Longevity Research:
Insights into the latest developments at Longevity Launch Labs.
The future of NAD research and its potential to revolutionize aging and healthcare.
If you want to supplement 1-MNA you can now get it in our Longevity and Anti-Aging store
Bio
Courtney Van Bussum is a dynamic entrepreneur and business leader who currently serves as the COO of Longevity Launch Labs, a pioneering incubator focused on advancing the Cellular and Longevity Medicine sectors. With a Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Engineering from Arizona State University, Barrett Honors College, Courtney has overseen several startups in the healthcare and medical arenas ranging from fitness applications to wearable medical devices. Her early career began as a strategy consultant in Scottsdale, Arizona where she honed her skills by working with Fortune 500 companies and startups, streamlining processes and driving innovation.
In 2020, Courtney joined the Boulder Longevity Institute, where she played a crucial role in enhancing the institute's core technology and operational systems. Two years later, she co-founded Longevity Launch Labs, where she has been instrumental in building the operational frameworks that have propelled the incubator to become a key connector in the industry. Under her leadership, Longevity Launch Labs offers a range of services including product co-formulation and development, distribution, product rollout strategy, and mentorship, all aimed at supporting companies and healthcare practitioners in the rapidly evolving field of longevity medicine. Through Launch's Longevity Impact Fund, Courtney also helps early-stage startups access key capital to further development of their healthcare innovations.
Having grown up around the world of medicine, Courtney understands that changing healthcare can only be achieved through creating innovative parallel systems that improve outcomes and experience. Her visionary leadership and deep expertise make her an invaluable voice in the conversation around healthcare innovation and longevity.
Subscribe to our podcast for more expert insights on longevity, health optimization, and cutting-edge research.
Visit Longevity Launch Labs' website for more information on 1-MNA and other groundbreaking research initiatives.
Connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on this episode using the hashtag #1-MNA
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Integrative Oncology, Chinese Medicine and Medical Paradigms with Dr. Daniel Weber
01:38:04
This week on "Pushing the Limit” Dr. Daniel Weber is internationally renowned as an informative and passionate speaker, traveling extensively lecturing on modern botanical medicine, psycho physical diseases, microbiome and its spectrum of diseases as well as cancer.
Dr Weber has nearly 50 years experience across a wide variety of fields including
Chinese Medicine
Integrated Oncology
Herbal Medicine
CEO of Panaxea™ International,
Autoimmune diseases
Botanical oncology isolates
Dr Weber is a deep thinker, a master, philosopher, pioneer, artist and this discussion dives deep into medical philosophies, history, oriental medicine and western medicine, paradigm shifts that humanity is experiencing and much more.
You will come away inspired and challenged by this interview and if you are someone dealing with cancer then Dr Weber is someone you want to have on your radar and learn from.
If you want to learn more about Dr Weber's work go to
Daniel is author of many books and published articles on integrative medicine. Daniel is deeply committed to research and evidence based medicine (EBM), and works to promote integrative clinics.
Daniel is Vice-Chair Oncology of the World Federation of Chinese Medicine Societies and editor of the Journal of Chinese Integrative Medicine. Daniel is a member of the Mederi Scientific Advisory Board, USA, and Advisor to the NIH and Global Consortium of Oncology and Chinese Medicine (Beijing). Daniel holds a Master Degree in Botanical Medicine and has been a Registered Somatic Psychotherapist since 1987. Daniel Weber is a Doctor of Health Science (DSc) from Charles Sturt University and maintains an international practice from his Clinic.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
At 41 - with two teenagers and a contentedly unadventurous life - Heather Hawkins made a doctor's appointment. Diagnosed with stage one ovarian cancer, within nine days she had surgery to remove an 18cm tumour, and a full hysterectomy. Instead of chemotherapy, she chose a non-invasive surveillance treatment. The experience reignited Heather's adventurous and invincible spirit. At 47 she pulled on an old pair of shorts and runners and struggled to the end of a 4km mothers' day fun run with her kids. Five years later she has 17 marathons and 3 ultra marathons under her belt, including the North Pole Marathon and the extraordinary World Marathon Challenge - a gruelling seven marathons in seven days on seven continents. She topped that off by trekking 1700km in the thin air of Nepal's Great Himalaya Trail. And she's only just getting started ...
'Heather's courage is immeasurable. She has unstoppable conviction and an energy that inspires and amazes me' - Robert de Castella - AO MBE, Australian Former World champion Marathon Runner
In this interview Lisa digs deep beyond the glib facts of Heather's adventures to find out what makes this lady tick, how she managed within just 5 years to go from being totally sedentary to a full on extreme ultra runner, to run in all four corners of the world.
We would like to thank our show sponsors
The North Face -
Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.
Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Episode 72 - Isobel Tamati - Back from the brink of Death
00:44:43
Show Notes –
Isobel had an aneurysm and a massive stroke two and a half years ago and was critical for weeks and was not expected to survive.
Due to a medical blunder by the receiving Doctor in the emergency ward it took 18 hours to get into surgery.
Waited 6 hours in the emergency department waiting room as the doctor believed she had a migraine. Got a paramedic friend to help her. Finally got a CT Scan – and saw that there was massive bleeding on the brain. Then went to Wellington Hospital for the surgery. Had a stent put into her brain to drain the blood. Also put a coil into the brain to stop the bleeding. Spent the next month in and out of ICU fighting for her life. Having brain spasms and losing consciousness. Spent three months in hospital in total. One month in Wellington and two months in New Plymouth.
After pushing from Lisa she was tested and diagnosed with severe sleep apnoea and put on oxygen. Lisa started studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
Isobel finds it astounding to hear the whole story as she was unconscious and unaware of a lot of it.
She had no memory, she couldn’t speak, she couldn’t control any functions in her body.
Her first memory was inside the hyperbaric oxygen chamber. Took her down to 1 ½ atmospheres which is ideal for brain injury. Given 100% medical grade oxygen which hyper oxygenates the body. You can take up to 7 time the normal amount of oxygen. Also permeates the blood brain barrier faster.
Isobel said that it is isn’t painful but you do have to be very patient. She is able to take her iPad in with her and she listens to podcasts.
Life is now back to complete normal most of the time. But there are still some areas where she struggles. She can do everything but it takes twice of long and there is a lot of effort required.
She can walk slowly for a 1 km now. She has had to relearn all the normal movement patterns.
Because of her age doctors were not confident she would be able to be fully rehabilitated.
One of the keys to that process of having parallel bars. They were gifted to them by a family friend. Spend a good hour on the bars per day.
Her biggest success to date is that she got her drivers licence back. Lisa felt it was important that Isobel could feel in control of own destine which driving would give her. Still working towards full independence but definitely working towards that. Her goal is to be healthier than she was before.
Goes to the gym five days a week. Lifting weights. You lose muscle mass and bone density because of the lack of movement at first. She has just had a bone density test and she is off the scales high.
It is important when you are older to face challenges. Isobel says she needed someone to help to push her. She had to be relentless in her training because that is the only way back. When you let things go it is a long way back. To take away the goals and achievements it to die. We need to feel like we are going forward. Let’s make the most out of every day. It is the discipline of today that helps us to be stronger tomorrow.
Rest and recovery is important too but in a rhythm with working out.
Never give up. You don’t know how far you can go.
A few months into her recovery she crewed with Lisa when she ran across the North Island with her husband and business partner to raise money for a friend’s charity. That friend, who has previously appeared on the podcast, died in an accident during a half marathon.
Lisa is currently writing a book about her Mum’s recovery.
We would like to thank our show sponsors
The North Face -
Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.
Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Using accountability to reach your goals and dreams - Tools for achievers
00:17:18
Mindset expert and ultra marathon athlete Lisa Tamati talks about her secrets to being able to tackle the biggest and scariest of projects and not giving in. It's all about using accountability on different levels to keep yourself focused on the end goal. Building a framework that helps you keep the discipline going to get where you want to be.
Check out the mental toughness, resilience and leadership course by Lisa at: www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse
05 Dec 2024
Unlocking Health: The Power Of Functional And Genetic Testing With Dr. Sam Shay
01:13:38
In this episode, we sit down with the brilliant Dr. Sam Shay, a functional and lifestyle medicine expert with over 20 years of experience. Dr. Shay shares his deep knowledge of functional medicine testing and genetic testing, explaining why preventative medicine is the key to optimizing health and avoiding chronic disease. We delve into how genetic testing can transform your approach to health by tailoring your diet, exercise, sleep, work habits, and overall lifestyle to your unique genetic blueprint.
Dr. Shay emphasizes the need to move away from the outdated "reactive" model of healthcare and embrace proactive strategies to unlock your health potential. Whether you're looking to improve your energy, manage stress, or optimize your performance, this episode offers actionable insights to help you live your best life.
What You'll Learn:
Why functional medicine testing provides a comprehensive view of your health.
The power of genetic testing to personalize your diet, fitness, and lifestyle.
How to use your genetic profile to enhance sleep quality and productivity.
The importance of addressing root causes, not just symptoms.
Practical tips to shift from reactive to preventative healthcare.
🌐 Connect with Dr. Sam Shay: Discover more about Dr. Shay's approach to personalized health and book a consultation via his website: drsamshay.co.nz.
📌 Work with Lisa to unlock your genetic code. Testing and interpretation available reach out to support@lisatamati.com or grab your DNA Test here:
🔗 Links: Visit Dr. Shay's website for resources, blog posts, and testing options: drsamshay.co.nz.
📲 Follow & Subscribe:
BIO
Dr. Sam Shay, DC, IFMCP, solves health puzzles for busy, health-conscious parents, entrepreneurs, and adults on the Spectrum so they can exit survival mode and re-enter community by improving resilience, energy, and brain health through personalized, data-driven genetics and lab testing. Dr. Sam walked his own health journey from being chronically unwell from age 6-18, including severe fatigue, anxiety, digestive problems, chronic pain, severe insomnia, sugar addiction, video game addiction, excessive coffee, depression, and poor nutrition. He took control of his health starting as a teenager and dedicated his life to natural medicine. Known as the friendly "lab nerd", Dr. Sam specializes in functional lab and genetics analysis for data-driven results.
Dr. Sam is also a Stand-Up comic who uses comedy as "edutainment" on his Youtube Channel, along with his other functional testing teachings. His primary focus in comedy is to educate the public on what it's like to be on the Spectrum, specifically Aspergers.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
EP 96: RECOVERY AFTER A RACE AND RACE DAY NUTRITION
00:19:00
Todays episode with Lisa is a coaching session with her athletes many of whom have just completed big races, ultra marathons, marathons and half marathons.
Their build ups were long and hard and now the race has come and gone and they have successfully completed the mission but many are struggling with the blues, not recovering as quick as they thought and aren't sure how to rebuild. In this episode Lisa shares her insights into what is happening now in the body and mind and how you can help yourself.
This session also goes into race day nutrition and how you can optimise your running and not energy into problems that can derail you because you got your hydration and nutrition wrong
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Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.
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The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.
This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.
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The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
04 Aug 2022
How To Achieve Lasting Weight Loss Through Ideal Diet and Nutrition With Matty Lansdown
00:55:15
'Are you an emotional eater? Do you sabotage your own weight loss goals?
Goodness knows I have personally struggled with this one. You know.. how whenever you are stressed you reach for that comforting chocolate bar.
Reminiscent of that famous scene in the Bridget Jones movie when she breaks up with her man.
Ever wondered why when your logical thinking brain makes a decision to eat more healthily... you somehow sabotage yourself.
It's like someone else is in charge.
Well in this week episode scientist Matty Lansdown sits down with me to discuss such themes.
Matty Lansdown is a scientist & nutritionist with over 10 years of experience and a background working in the health system. Firstly, in a nutritional epigenetics lab servicing elite athletes and also working as part of a disease research team within hospitals.
Just a few years into his cancer hospital job, surrounded by amazing professors, doctors, PhD's nurses and fellow scientists he began to feel like an imposter. He was asking questions that no one else seemed to be asking, about the cause of disease and the impact of food on the body... It was so strange to him that quite obviously the large majority of patients were overweight or obese and no one talked about their diet or their lifestyle. Ever.
Despite that, I was 100% certain of what I had realised years before: that being overweight or obese was the number 1 predictor of getting any of the chronic diseases (..and often it ends up being several).
Working in this environment and asking unconventional questions led him down the research rabbit hole of mainstream medical history (hint, it's terrifying) but it also allowed many epiphanies and truths about health and wellness to flow into his mind and be realised.
And so feeling misaligned with this behemoth entity that runs the world, he left my corporate science career because I saw the grand canyon sized hole in the world of health, nutrition and weight loss:
On this podcast we have often talked about ideal diets and nutrition but never have we tackled the emotional aspect of it and in this episode that is exactly what we do.
So if you are sick of yo yo diets and never achieving sustainable fat loss, if you are sick of failing and feeling guilty then this is the episode for you. If you want to stay healthy and be in control then Matty is the man.
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Learn To Achieve Lasting Weight Loss Through Ideal Diet and Nutrition
Understand how to achieve sustainable fat loss
Learn how to stay healthy and be in control.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
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Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
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In this episode Lisa speaks with NZ's top Ozone Therapy Machine providers and expert on all things Ozone, Kim Saxton of Natural Ozone (www.naturalozone.co.nz)
What is Ozone Therapy?
Ozone Therapy refers to a collection of procedures and protocols which have been developed by medical experts using medical ozone to treat a condition or reduce symptoms. They include:
Injection - Auto hemotherapy; or direct injection into a vein or joint.
Insufflation - in the ear; vaginal; rectal.
Inhalation - breathing ozonoids given off from ozonated oil.
Ingestion - Ozonated water, ozonated olive oil in capsule form.
Transdermal - Cupping with a funnel. Sauna.
All of the above therapies except for injection can be administered safely in the comfort of your own home using the equipment available through Natural Ozone.
From improved immune system function to stimulating the uptake of life-giving oxygen, delivering anti-microbial benefits and enhancing the function of the mitochondria (our cells energy powerhouses), your decision to begin ozone therapy is a health-enhancing one!
Ozone therapy refers to the process of administering ozone gas into your body to treat a disease or wound.
Ozone is a colorless gas made up of three atoms of oxygen (O3). It can be used to treat medical conditions by stimulating the immune system. It can also be used to disinfect and treat disease.
How it works
Ozone therapy works by disrupting unhealthy processes in the body. It can help stop the growth of bacteria that are harmful.
Medical ozone has been usedTrusted Source to disinfect medical supplies and treat different conditions for more than 150 years. For example, if you have an infection in your body, ozone therapy can stop it from spreading.
Ozone therapy can be effective at treating infections caused by:
bacteria
viruses
fungi
yeast
protozoa
Ozone therapy also helps flush out infected cells. Once the body rids itself of these infected cells, it produces new, healthy ones.
What it helps treatOzone therapy is used for a variety of conditions.
Breathing disorders
People with any type of breathing disorder may be good candidates for ozone therapy.
By providing more oxygen to your blood, ozone therapy can help reduce the stress on your lungs. Your lungs are responsible for supplying oxygen to your blood.
Clinical trials for people with asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) are currently in progress.
Diabetes
Ozone therapy also shows promise in reducing the risk of complications from diabetes.
Complications are usually caused by oxidative stress in the body. If ozone therapy can bring new, fresh oxygen to the blood and tissues, people with diabetes could have much better outcomes.
People with diabetes also experience poor wound healing. According to a 2015 study, ozone therapy could be helpful for repairing skin and tissue.
Immune disorders
Ozone therapy may have benefits for people with immune disorders because it can help stimulate the immune system.
Some links of interest mentioned during the podcast:
It was back in 2007 when Kim first encountered the extraordinary power of O3 gas while working with a small local company. Her background in business development and MSc in International Management brought that enterprise onto a good business footing while she gained formidable knowledge of this fascinating branch of science. Armed with these years of research and experience, Kim independently founded Natural Ozone in 2016.
Natural Ozone supplies all the products and associated equipment required to harness the full range of applications for ozone including air and water purification, room and car sanitisation, as well as health treatment. With well-established partner companies who have manufactured to their exacting standards for over a decade, Natural Ozone is uniquely placed within Australasia to supply high quality, reliable equipment.
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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"
Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information
ABOUT THE BOOK:
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:13) Today everybody to pushing the limits today. I have another exciting guest for you, Kim Saxton of naturalozone.co.nz, the leading ozone machine providers in New Zealand is to guest on the show today and Kim has going to be explaining what exactly ozone therapy is, how you can use it, the various ways of getting it into the body, why you should do that and all the conditions that can be helped with ozone therapy. Now this is something that's been on my radar for a while, so I was really, really excited to finally catch up with Kim and I'm going to be trialing out the ozone therapy over the coming weeks. So I will let you know how I go. And thanks very much to come for doing this interview. Before we go over to kim, just want to remind you two things.
Speaker 2: (01:00) We have our next epigenetics public webinar that we're holding online via zoom on the 27th of May at 6:30 PM. If you want to find out about it, if a genetics program, which is all about personalized health and understanding your genes and how they're expressing themselves, then go over to epigenetics.lisatamati.com to register for that webinar 27th of May at 6:30 PM New Zealand time. You can come in and find out all about the epigenetics program that we offer and how it can help you. And finally, before we go into the show, just another plug for my book, relentless, which I bought out a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago now. Really, really great read in this time of Coburn and all that uncertainty and taking on big challenges cause that's what that book is all about. You can grab that on my website, lisatamati.com. It's available on all the audio books, the eBooks, the Amazon, the Kindles, the, you name it, it's available everywhere. So check that out. It's called relentless. How a mother and daughter defied the odds right now over to Kim Saxton from natural ozone.
Speaker 3: (02:16) Good. All right. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. This is Lisa Tamati at pushing the limits and I have the lovely Kim saxton with me. Kim, how you doing?
Speaker 3: (02:26) It's really cool to have you there. Kevin is setting an initial 10. What was the name of the place? The villains.
Speaker 4: (02:32) Cool. Cool. See at Bay actually, which is yeah, one Bay around from Luton.
Speaker 3: (02:38) Yes. Actually that's been in the news lately, hasn't it? And of course, thereby Bay, I think when the cruise ship was off there was,
Speaker 3: (02:47) I just remember that somewhere popped into my head. So Kim is with us today to talk ozone and ozone therapy and Kim owns a company called naturalozone.co.nz. Then I'll put them on links and things after to comes website and the products that they do and she's going to share her knowledge today. Everything around ozone. And I'm really fascinated by this and it's something that's been on my radar for the last couple of years and I just haven't got there to do it. But I'm hearing amazing things both in relation to the coronavirus you know, if we want to be current and also many, many other areas. So can, can you tell us a little bit, so you've been in the ozone world now for quite a few years.
Speaker 4: (03:33) Yes. So basically about 15 years I first came into contact to ozone and, and well, the amazing things that it can do via my former partner. And he had been already had been involved with ozone therapy and ozone products for about 10 years. Before I met him. He had actually contracted hepatitis B while traveling through India and after, yes, lots and lots of conversations like you do with people. Lisa I had come across ozone therapy and actually cured himself of hepatitis B which, you know you, you say that to a GP and they'll go, yeah. But yeah, I was on therapy alone. He took himself hepatitis B and, and got into building machines. I came along and made a business around it. So
Speaker 3: (04:40) So you have a background as the masters in international management, isn't it?
Speaker 4: (04:45) Yes, that's right. Yeah. So I studied that in London, university of London at Southwest university, which is a school of African and Asian studies and that's a, yeah. Yeah. Basically you got a big international management college with focus on Asia. Yeah, it's run through the university of London.
Speaker 3: (05:08) So you're able to use a lot of that skills to build a business around something that you knew was powerful and good, but
Speaker 4: (05:15) It's coming from a family that's, yeah, pretty, pretty business oriented. So like, yeah, I was telling you earlier that you know, when my family gets together at Christmas, everybody's talking about the latest startup and latest technology and yeah, you know, we're also debating about what the government's doing and all that. You know, but everybody's like jumping right in there with their ideas and innovation and I've got three older brothers and very supportive growing up. They're, they're all awesome. And we were all good friends, so and support of each other. So yeah. And, and actually now what we're saying is a lot of international connections and things like that. And, and particularly, particularly from Asia, like I'm already quite well established in Asia Australian and New Zealand markets, but wow, they were getting from India and Singapore and, and things like this and this part of the book.
Speaker 3: (06:29) So share this year, this powerful therapy with people. So, okay, let's go into ozone. People would have heard, probably let you know, I think most people's knowledges, I've heard about it. Some people have said it's great dunno where I can get it done. Really one of those, or this seems to be, and even for me, I've read a couple of books and things. I'm still a little bit confused about all of the variety. It seems like it affects everything and the different applications and the different ways you can use it. Can we just start at the beginning and say what is ozone you know, from molecule point of view and what did the ozone machines do?
Speaker 4: (07:09) Sure. So ozone is a gas and it has three atoms. So oxygen has two atoms and ozone has three. So where is oxygen is stable. It wants to the two oxygen atoms. They want to stay together and main stable and bond. But ozone is relatively unstable, so it's highly active. I like to think of it as enhanced oxygen. With the oxygen atom. It's it's very powerful when you can harness it and use it which there's tons of ways that we're going to get into and I'm really excited about that. But yeah, if you can harness that power, that extra oxygen atom, then it's very powerful. So the way that ozone is created naturally in the atmosphere, so it's in the higher, I'm answering the lower atmosphere, but with your, they liked and lightning storms and any kind of energy that will come along and will spoon your oxygen atoms. And what, what then happens is a lot of other oxygen the Adam's will bond and form oxygen and that's majority of what's happening. But also what's happening is it will give off ozone. So this a strong base get off and all form with another two oxygen atoms and form for my zone. And,
Speaker 3: (08:56) And we have an ozone layer, don't we? We all know that the ozone layer having holes in it.
Speaker 4: (09:00) Yeah, yeah. And, and you can, you can actually smell ozone. So after, after the lightning storm, when it's at really fresh smell, after we've had this big storm at night and you wake up in the morning and there's sun shining and you can really S it smells so good, smells really, really fresh. And that's, that's ozone. And also a few go and stand under a waterfall or go to the beach and there's big crashing surf. That's all giving off ozone. Wow. Basically breaking up those oxygen atoms and it's all given off ozone. So and, and in low levels it's it's very good and very healthy for us, but in high concentrations which he can produce conditionally to ozone generators then it is an irritant to the lungs. So and that's very non, so about the, when we get into ozone therapy about the only thing you can't do with those own therapy is breathe directly the ozone guests in high concentrations and low concentrations. It's absolutely fine. Yep.
Speaker 3: (10:10) Cause it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't pick the lungs in the negative way and can actually lead to death if you have a really, really high dose of advisers. Is that right?
Speaker 4: (10:20) Or just damages just really damages the lungs in particular people with asthma. Yeah, for a strong irritant to actually know you've, you've done too much ozone cause you'll, you'll have a horrible coughing attack which can, which can go on and be you know you know, quite severe. But actually if you, if you stop puffing I'm, I'm Mike, you know, like you were saying before that you want to have a laboratory and doing all sorts of experiments and things like that. So one of the things I do is make ozonated oil, which can take about a month. And sometimes when it's kind of on its last legs, then the ozone, after it's fully infused into the oil, we'll start off guessing and I've walked into the room and there's too much ozone in there and I'll breathe too much and my stop coughing. But if I reached for the vitamin C and take the vitamin C straight away, then immediately you're, you're fine. It's also not the end of the world.
Speaker 3: (11:26) Yeah. Yeah. And it would have to be pretty, pretty hard to assess, to do some serious damage, but you don't sit at the end of a ozone generator. And sucker. Okay. So what are some of the ways we can harness, before we get into what it helps, what are some of the methodologies or the delivery mechanisms that we can get that the ozone to the right part of the body and get it inside?
Speaker 4: (11:52) Yeah, so that's a great question. And, and often the first one that people, people ask me then I'd say, Oh dude, do you breathe it? And I'm like, well, no, it was never said, we can't, we can't do that. But yeah, basically there is, yeah. Every, every other common way that you can, you, you can get into the body. So I was just mentioned the ozonated oil, what you can do is breathe the ozonated oil. So when I was zone is infused into olive oil, which is a traditional medium that's usually used and it's actually changing its state very, very quickly because, yeah, this ozone is, is reactive, it's unstable, and the olive oil will actually hold, hold the ozone. But it, it changes it Satan to something called Oh, it's annoyed. And when you breathe that that I was annoyed from the olive oil as it's been infused, then that's really good for lung conditions.
Speaker 4: (13:01) So that's how you can help breathing conditions and the lungs, which is very relevant at the moment. So that would be like in a sort of essential oil diffuser type situation. It's, yeah, it's, it's not, it's not really in the realm of essential oil. Ozone does have a very restaurant smell. And a lot of people will be put off actually by this strong smell. But it's, it's actually, you know, and fish tanks, you diffuse the stones to just bubble oxygen and to the water clear and plain in the fish tanks. So these diffusers stones, what were you as as it was on, it's very corrosive. So we always use ozone resistant materials. So I have, I import diffuse the stones from America, we can't make it here. And my dad of ceramic and stone. And you basically diffused that the pure form of the guests into a, the olive oil and that will form owes in words and you complete that.
Speaker 4: (14:14) And so that's, so that's one of the modems and then everything under the sun. So the most powerful way to get ozone into the body is actually to go to a clinic and do what's called also hammy off the or I the ozone. And this is systematic. So it's, it's working on the, on the, on the total body because basically the medical grade ozone is getting into the body and getting into your blood system and then your blood declining. It's really doing a lot of amazing, amazing, powerful things that we can get into also. But w we all say medical grade ozone, that's, this is a really important point because of, we've talked about how unstable the ozone is and basically reacts with whatever is around it. So if we just have like a normal ozone generator then that bull jaw and ear, and we know that the air in which we brave is only about 21% oxygen and year and the rest of the ear is whole lot of other guesses.
Speaker 4: (15:29) Yeah. So if you, if you bring that normal ear into the ozone generator, then what? Then the guys are more react to that normal air and produce a whole load of yeah. Different, different kinds of guesses. And some of these will be nitrate kind of guessing. And that we definitely do not want to get into the body. So what we want to do for medical grade ozone therapy is to get harness at ozone and it's very pure form. And we do that by inputting a very pure form of Austin's, which you can get from an oxygen tank, which is, yeah. Not over 98% purity. It was a medical grade oxygen,
Speaker 3: (16:14) Which has its own regulations and problems having it on oxygen clarity clinic. We have, we have ways around that. I a woman here mafia, the boom and oxygen situation.
Speaker 4: (16:31) Yeah. So that so when you get up Purifill mobile oxygen and and that's drawn into the ozone then with a very specifically built or its own generator, and we call it a medical grade ozone generator because all of the parts within the ozone generator are all the parts and because, yeah, yeah. Offsides everything. So things like glass, titanium, Silicon, stainless steel yeah, ceramic these things are, have got really good zoned resistancy and, and so these are the kind of materials that you are looking for when you're, when you're going out to buy a medical ozone generator. And that's really important question to ask whoever's in back. And so it's and it also has a built in a specific way that it has a session amount of output. So with ozone therapy, basically the measurement that we use is mg per milliliter or America.
Speaker 4: (17:46) They, they use gamma. And anything on the 20 mg per ML is not going to do anything. And anything over 95 is shown to be detrimental to the, to your body cells. So you don't want to go above that. So it's a very non and very specific window of effectiveness when you're using ozone therapy and and ozone therapy units are, are built that way. And because I built that way, then it's knowing that if you follow the protocols, it is known to be the most safest therapy. There are no side effects. There's only the only thing that can happen is a little bit of detox. Fine. Yep. And they also prevented
Speaker 3: (18:39) Yeah. When you guys finally, okay, so, so just going back to the Ivy so you go, you have to go to an ozone clinic. Is it doctor only situation, you know, you have to be a medical doctor to do ozone therapy or how is it regulated?
Speaker 4: (18:56) So yeah, different, different countries have different regulations. We're so pretty fortunate to New Zealand with, with our regulations. Yeah, as long as we're transparent and, and we're backing everything up with good science then, then we're good. And in America as ozone therapy is got, comes with messages of things surrounding the FDA. And Australia and Australia also, it's a stricter legislation, but they're academics and they're nice and bright people to refer to. And but actually in New Zealand, nobody is offering the IV ozone. So nobody. Wow. Yeah. And now the, and the reason being is the space where I was on therapy has had a bad reputation and the past is because of the IV ozone and somebody that doesn't know anything about how, you know, hasn't been trained, how to handle needles and things like that, then I mean, of course a blood ambulance is a real danger. And so if you don't know what you're doing then, then that, that's absolutely shocking. We shouldn't even go there. So it needs to be a case to me. It takes me to try and post them ministering it. So there has been a couple cases of ambulances in the past and that send your sin and not good, but it's got nothing to it.
Speaker 3: (20:50) Putting needles in your body in the wrong way.
Speaker 3: (20:55) Okay, so, so Ivy's off the, off the menu and New Zealand at the moment in team past ozone, which I've read about don't do it when you're really powerful and really unfortunate if we don't do that. So what types of therapies are offered in New Zealand, for example? That, you know, like rectal some inflation. Yes. Vaginal supplication. What other ways can you get it into your body?
Speaker 4: (21:25) Yeah, so so what, what we do at natural ozone is set people up for home ozone therapy and there's a few other clinics that also offer these kinds of treatments within New Zealand and the clinic environment because it's, yeah, a homos went to therapy is it's very well known to be extremely safe. I can yeah, feel very assured to offer equipment and help people set it up in their own home and, and, and getting started with it. So the best thing that you can do outside of clinic is to do the rectal insufflation. And that's because it's systematic. It's getting into your yeah, it's true. You call on and into your blood system. And that's this way for this total body exposure to the beneficial effects of ozone therapy.
Speaker 4: (22:28) Considerably less expensive than going to a clinic. And you've basically got this equipment for life and don't even need to get colds and flus anymore, let alone chronic disease, biohacking, all of it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (22:46) rectal insufflation Is probably the most powerful that we can do in the, in home setting. So, sorry, carry on.
Speaker 4: (22:54) Yeah, so it's quite straightforward. You just have a bag and, and a catheter and you'll fill the bag with with certain concentration and start off with small amount and and that connects to a a very thin and long catheter. And you can insert that on you takes about a minute. And, and that's the best to do after an enema or at the very least bowel moves
Speaker 3: (23:21) After a movement. Yeah. So do, so it only takes one minute. So you don't have to lie there for an hour with this thing attached to you.
Speaker 4: (23:29) No, no. It's quite comfortable. You do try to hold it, hold it. And and, and there's there, there has been otherwise of, of doing that in the past. But this is become the kind of gold of, of the men's name, Richmond's flashing.
Speaker 3: (23:48) And this is the liver isn't it? Cause it goes directly to the liver when it's erectile.
Speaker 4: (23:53) Yup. Yeah, yup. Yeah. Directly, directly tied in liver and helps everything flush out that way. So then there's other yeah, ways that you can administer ozone therapy. So there's the vaginal that you mentioned and you got 10 minutes and you can build up to about half, half an hour. And yeah, and, and you can minister that directly from those on generator and, and the, and that's really good cause it's actually primarily targeting the immune system and giving that a good boost. And, and any, yeah, so the, the ozone is working both systematically and locally. So basically wherever you can get it in that you, you go for the, the protocols depending on, on what issues you're trying to do. A few but just generally everybody can prevent disease by doing direct ones, deflation, system wide. Also doing saunas are excellent because we know that our skin is a biggest poorest mess it up body. So a lot through our skin and, but we also know that we can't breathe those zones.
Speaker 3: (25:17) Yes. I had an idea hit out, so I wonder what is box?
Speaker 4: (25:24) I get a sauna with your end. You just have you hit up, tie a towel around it. So none of the ozone is getting braids and and you can get stained soreness, tents and just sit in one of one of those in your bathroom, sit up in your bathroom and portable and yeah. And then you put the certain concentration of oxygen, pure oxygen ozone mix into the sauna, steam stoner and, and sit there.
Speaker 3: (25:55) And so it comes on trains too late, so it's transdermal cool. Okay. So that's another way you can get it. And, and, and do you offer at your company the tents and the, the whole, the whole shebang for that or,
Speaker 4: (26:10) Yeah. So yeah, I, yeah, basically offer all the homophone therapy accessories and gear and everything you need to get cited before that. There's also like you can administer through the ears. And we have modified stiff scopes. That's all made out of ozone resistant material, like Silicon and things. And you just put that into his and that's targeting the brain area. So that'd be good. And things like that then yeah, it's,
Speaker 3: (26:44) It's directly targeting that area. So I was, I was really effective. Yeah. Was that local, that local graphs of, of just wherever there is a problem area, if you can target it, then, then it can be very effective. Okay. So, all right, let's, let's transition now into what, what ailments that can help with and we are, so let's start at the head, because you just mentioned there, what is the mechanism or you know, like, I don't wanna get too scientific, but what is the mechanism of action? Is it going through into the ear? And you mentioned also tonight us, cause my husband's got that. So I'm selfishly asking about that. How is that the place for, for tinnitus as well? And how does that work?
Speaker 4: (27:30) Yeah, so I, I would actually let's take a step back and you can actually look at what is the cause of disease itself. Yeah, I'll stop there. And yeah, this is, this is where I was on therapy as kind of the biohack is goat ticket to longevity, don't get disease, but you don't really hear of people dying of nothing, you know. There's, there's usually a associated disease. So I would really, really highly recommend, I don't know if you've come across him, but Dr. Frank Shallenberger
Speaker 3: (28:27) A little might be a bit, yeah, I'm working on that one.
Speaker 4: (28:33) So he, he was, he was one of the forefathers of ozone therapy and in America so 40 years on he had smoked it all. He administered therapy and trained from the first guys that invented the James Bond style, ozone medical ozone generators out of America. And have messes of research university and papers backing them. He trained from them. And, and basically one of the guys that have just been administering ozone therapy in a clinic environment and seeing thousands of patients throughout the years. Yeah. W what he talks about is, is really important. He's basically going into what is the root of cools of disease itself when now when we go out and about and and we'll go to the cheapy cheapy and we'll, yeah, they'll do some bicep tastes and yeah, they might say, okay, we've got healthy lungs and we're breathing healthy ear and they'll send us home and say, we're fine. What Dr. Frank Shallenberger is saying is saying, well no, I can, I can actually run my tests and I can show that you are not actually utilizing that oxygen. You might be breathing plenty. We might be like tricking up on these beautiful mountains that we have in New Zealand and breathing really fresh air and even doing yoga and having really great lung capacity for me and whatever. But we might not have the capacity within our body to utilize that oxygen. And so he's coined this term oxygen utilization.
Speaker 4: (30:35) Now it's how can be described as similarly, you know, any vitamin that we that we're told that we, we have two that were depleted, all of them. W we should take. So, so we go to the doctor and they run some tests and they say, okay, your deficient vitamin basics. And so we'll go home and we'll take sort of one of these, but you six now, just because we're taking that everyday, it doesn't actually mean that our body is, that's a really well known within like we need other kinds of vitamins also. So we can actually utilize vitamin. Don't we need the genes to be able to do the right things?
Speaker 4: (31:20) So same with oxygen. Just because we're breathing, that doesn't mean that necessarily mean that our body has capacity to utilize it. I mean, certain amount we're obviously using as it would be dead and the best way. And, and that's where yeah, he, he will then run, run some kind of test where he'll is his Scott Paul Murray a certified gadget that he can actually test how well you are utilizing oxygen. So and, and it will actually run the test and it will show, okay, you're using a certain amount. And he also test amount of carbon dioxide that we're expiring. And so what does his show is if you're utilizing oxygen, if you're taking it, if your body has ability to take most of it, and then you're actually, you don't, you don't expire much of the CO2.
Speaker 4: (32:24) So that's also great. New cure pump change, but you're really healthy ourselves and no, he's good. He'll link that. For example, we can go onto pub med and we'll run a search for yeah. Basically you mitochondria and aging and we'll come up with heaps and heaps of like thousands of papers and we'll also want to search for mitochondria and disease and it will come up with tens of thousands of papers. So, and it's well established that mitochondria are extremely important. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if, if our levels of mitochondria are really good, then then actually that is a sign that we are utilizing oxygen. So for utilizing oxygen our mitochondrial functioning is, is excellent. Now what he, what Dr. Frank Shallenberger saw from all these thousands of patients over, you know, 30 years of them coming to the clinic is that Mmm, anybody that had any kind of disease, whether it be cancer or order, immune disease and any kind of disease, then he would run this test and it will show that their oxygen utilization is poor.
Speaker 3: (34:06) Wow. Man. He'll be fantastic for us all to do to, so no, we were a mitochondria because they're at the basis of all but an agent.
Speaker 4: (34:14) That's right. Yeah. And he will also get healthy people coming into the clinic. So that was, you know, and that also Ronald, the other tests showing that they don't have any disease and the, what his tests will show is that the oxygen utilization is excellent. You know, their body's ability to take that oxygen and at the cellular level is really, really amazing. You'll also get like some seemingly people some people that come in that that are functioning quite well and same like they're pretty healthy, but they might have a tumor in the breast for example. And interestingly that tests that he'll do will show that actually the oxygen utilization is not that great. Wow. So he's, he's what is basically showing is he can actually see if the road, to me that's the dog by looking at your oxygen utilization and and so,
Speaker 3: (35:32) So what does dr Shallenberger's, he's got his book, the title of his book. Have you got that in your mind? Because it's on my list, but I haven't got there yet. The ozone, the miracle is one of the miracle of ozone miracle. That was a miracle. There we go. I was AmeriCorps. So if you want to dive deeper into dr Shallenberger's work gone. Great bit. Okay. So, okay. So he's looking at the mitochondria cause we're running at a time. You can, we're going to have to speed it up. The, so your, your ability to use oxygen. So how can a ozone Theraphy help it?
Speaker 4: (36:13) Sorry, I was on therapy. It's basically directly helping with, with that uptake of oxygen. So when you get this medical grade ozone into the body, it's, it's doing two things. It will have because it cha so it changes it sites very, very quickly because it's reactive. So it will have a little bit of oxidating power and we'll go directly after you know, disease cells themselves. And we all know that disease cells do not thrive in an oxygenated [inaudible]. Same thing. The other thing I was able to do when you get into the body, it will change its state and well form peroxides these yeah, these peroxides clicked flea and honors opioids. And this has a systematic function on the body where you're, yeah, just as something similar to create an upstate of stress. When, when you exercise for example, then you're creating a certain amount of free radicals and your system has to regulate, keep those free radicals in check. That's what it says. Therefore, so, and that's really important. So when, so when you when you get done and similar to when you exercise and your antioxidant system is enhanced and your body is basically stronger so systematically as helping your body fight, whatever's wrong with it,
Speaker 3: (37:58) Whatever's wrong with it. So this is, this is why it's good. So what sort of diseases or problems can it be beneficial for? If we, if we did a, a list from a to Z or you know, some of the major players
Speaker 4: (38:13) And we did a list from a to Z, then you can pretty much go through absolutely everything because it's going at the Coles of diseases.
Speaker 3: (38:23) Sorry, sorry guys. Carry on. My mum has a tip habit of doing that and every one of my podcasts.
Speaker 4: (38:36) So mostly when, when people come to ozone therapy though, they'll call me and they've gone to the doctor and they'll be diagnosed with a chronic disease, chronic condition. And that's stuff searched out there for everything known to man. They'll come across the ozone therapy. And honestly, it's such a broad spectrum humor. I've had people come to me and I've had every kind of thing under the sun and they'll say, can this help? And they'll tell me a little bit about it and I'll and I'll, yeah. Also, you know, trick the because it's, it's, there's over 1500 articles. For example, in the American society of ozone therapy on peer reviewed studies of ozone therapy. So, you know, I always like to point people directly to the research that's been done. What's the, is there a website that C A I R R T.com.
Speaker 4: (39:38) Dot com if anyone wants to go and do some research. Okay. So it helps a broad range of diseases because it's getting to the actual base cause of the down, down low and what's happening. And you can also treat so you can treat systematically by, for example, going to the clinic during the auto homeopathy or direct IB or during your the Tampax Asia. Or you can do the home ozone therapy and it's easy at Texas. It doesn't cost very much and you can do it more often and it's, and it's just as powerful if you do the rectal insufflation systematically and then you can do the local administration the, the other kinds of routes depending on what your issues are. If you've got brain issues and you can do the air insufflation, anything to do yeah, anything going on up there and the ladies. So it will not thrush out after a single, really, at the very least, you can breathe those and edit oil for any kind of blind condition. Allergies, asthma, Candido. Yeah, yeah. So, and candida like often through the ear, that's where your husband and son, your son often widespread can do that. Yeah, it's often a sign of that. And so you can actually director directly through the ear and transdermally so you can do those notes on and that's really great for heart prevent heart disease prevention, prevention and treatment. And then you can actually bag any of your limbs.
Speaker 3: (41:38) The plastic bag, top thing on sale, on the internet. Yeah,
Speaker 4: (41:41) Yeah. Problems with veins or just, just aches and pains nerve issues or skin, particular kinds of skin conditions to trying to get it. Then we can either bag or you can use this as an oil. So basically the ozone is howled and the, and the oil and yeah, so I've been liking that for, for 15 years now and it's amazing. Like all the time. People come along and now they'll use it and I'll go, you know, cam, I've tried everything for my ex mouth. All my psoriasis. I've tried, I've honestly tried everything under the sun, but this is the only thing that's actually worked. Likewise for any kind of skin condition and also for gum disease and tastes and things.
Speaker 3: (42:40) Dentists have actually used us, you know, that was one of the first, they were the first adopters of the suite. They, because for, for training their equipment. Yeah,
Speaker 4: (42:48) That's right. Yeah. So you can so it's really, really powerful at disinfecting it as it will oxides any microbes. So bacteria yeses and every nook and cranny and used in dentistry. And they can also get directly into a root canal itself. And
Speaker 3: (43:16) But it's before they put a tooth on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: (43:20) And, and dentistry, so, so used you can inject directly into joints just straight into your, your back and you've got a bulging disc or, or osteoarthritis in the knee. You can inject directly into the joints with those own instead of use and cortisone.
Speaker 3: (43:38) Oh, Rocky. But again, you can't get that New Zealand probably
Speaker 4: (43:43) You can and opened up to wine McCarthy. He offers it and fully trained and, and he does a range of ozone therapy.
Speaker 3: (43:56) I have to get all those links off you show notes. Okay, so, so you've got these three molecules inside and it's, what's it actually doing? What some, so you've got either up, you know, the rectally vaginally in the ear through the oil transdermally Ivy, however you've managed to do it. What's it actually, so it's knocking out pathogens, it's taking out viruses. What's it doing in there?
Speaker 4: (44:30) Yeah. So yeah, when, when it gets into the body there's two things that does there's limited effects from the ozone itself because ozone is very reactive so it changes it Cypress Cyprus quickly. So, but when it is set ozone, it will go after viruses, bacteria and oxidize them. It's very powerful oxidizer. The second thing it does is as, yeah as, as I mentioned before, it will change the state very quickly and to the proc sides. And yeah, basically getting yeah, your body into check systematically by creating that oxidate of stress, anti antioxidant, it's activated to balance out any theoretical sort of form from, from that. So keeping them in check and that has this wide systematic effect of yeah, really going at the root of cause of disease itself. And it's amazing. I tell you, well, I've had people that have been sent home, you know, various illness and told that, you know, it's so much more than I can do.
Speaker 4: (45:44) And they get onto ozone therapy and the most powerful ways, and actually they do, they do really well. And if they get enough training, this is why we wanted to share all this information. Tell you something amazing that's going on with coronavirus at the moment and ozone therapy. I'm like the yeah, so the therapy has it has always been very, we're very well known treatment for infectious diseases. So and it was proven successful with SOLs. Oh, he had success with AIDS and we've got sort of studies on that and you can there's, there's one doctor, dr Robert Rowan. I highly recommend that you follow him on Facebook cause you have a time and now he actually went to West Africa and he had, you know, mess. He had real kind of your bureaucratic and get through and push him, push his way through the medical establishment there. But he was allowed to oversee the administration of direct. I was on auto hand me ups, the two, five Ebola cases and, and had really great success. And where as you know, there's this very made a coma if you come in and shut them down. Right? Yeah. It's an incredible story. Basically who actually contracted
Speaker 3: (47:30) It weren't allowed to get their, and some of them died. And the ones who managed to the health workers who managed to get the ozone therapy survived. And this highlights a lot of the problems.
Speaker 4: (47:43) Yeah. He's actually in New York city at the moment and he is administering ozone therapy to everybody that wants to yeah. Once he, he's right in the heart of New York city. So, you know, that's, that's what he's doing is offering ozone treatment for anyone that wants it if they can't afford it. Because we all know how the healthcare system is as an American. So he's, he's offering it for free if you can't afford it. And and, and people that are in the early stages, if they've been told that they should be in the hospital and on an NG beta, then legally he's putting everything at risk by trading them and the kind of suppressing that. But if, if you're in the early stages and then he'll treat people, but what's happening and places like Spain and Italy, also China there are, there they are treating we kind of have 19 patients and hospitals and coming out of Italy now is they've actually on their third report and they're just following the, the progress of COVID19 patients in a hospital environment.
Speaker 4: (49:01) So two hospitals are in the study and now the retina, the stirred report of 75 covid 19 patients and what it's showing so the, so when, yeah, just understanding that if you go to hospital yeah, then you're already not in a very good way. So and actually for example, they're treating these people the, and they're and you can see all the statistics and the bladed it all out, but there's basically 14, nine non-integrated patients that that they've seen and of of those yeah, that stuff saying really messages of improvement. Yeah. For the ones that have been.
Speaker 4: (50:04) And eventually, yeah, the Pope has really recorded it at all. I can give you the study that's saying a hundred percent efficiency for the, for the patients that were non intubated and in the early stages of COVID19. So they're calling it stage one and stage two. If you get in that early stages, then and you treated with the ozone therapy and getting them Derek direct divey then that getting bittering getting sent home basically there if you're intubated there, there are some that got extra debated so they got you know this is really super invasive. By the time you've got something stuck down your throat, then you're, you're already in extremely deep trouble. But I've managed to get some of them off there if they've managed to finish this round of I was in therapy treatment. They were, they showing that there were overall nine people that did die, that were in this hospital environment of the 73 patients that were treated. But those nine people, they were also showing that they didn't actually, they were in such bad state that they can actually finish.
Speaker 3: (51:25) They were already intubated and they were already, they couldn't have enough of the ozone. It was too little, too late.
Speaker 4: (51:31) But also what the shine as said only takes five sessions of this ozone. Oxygen therapy are painful to get. Right. So it's really quick. And that's also what I find with people that come to me, the various problems, chronic diseases being going through everything so long, they'll get onto ozone therapy and then quickly start getting better very, very quickly.
Speaker 3: (51:53) This is super exciting. So we're going to have to wrap up again cause we've, we've, we've done a little, I know this is a big subject day and this, I was trying to push it along a little bit, but I wanted to get to the good stuff. Okay. So I want to get some of those links off you and, and you know, Dr. Wayne McCarthy and dr Robert Rowan. Perhaps you can give me the links. I can put them in the show notes. And your, so we can people reach out to you to find out more about what you are offering your machines. Where's the best place?
Speaker 4: (52:28) So I'm a naturalozone.co.nz and all my details are, yeah. On the website. Just quickly, I'll just want to mention what's also extremely relevant in this, this time is actually our air resonators here, air ozone when you're not in the room. Because it's, we're basically, yeah. Going after really powerful, strong concentration of ozone and blasting a room. Then it will remove all viruses, bacteria, pathogens. It's week.
Speaker 3: (53:08) No, you could, if someone's being like, you know, in a, in a office environment or factory environment or wherever someone's had the coronavirus or whatever, and you want to make sure you're home, you want to kill the virus, you get a, you'd get one of these, the room, get out of
Speaker 4: (53:26) The room while you're doing it. Right? Yeah. And you know, every, like, honestly, every single public area, if it's used safely and you've, you know, after half an hour you can enter back into the room. Those zones dissipated. It's done. It's saying it's oxidized, it's environmentally friendly. It doesn't leave any chemical byproducts. I'm worried about that. That's right. You know, they're like, they're spraying everything with bleach.
Speaker 3: (53:55) I want to go back to the gym, but I'm not going back to the gym. Not because of the Corona, but because of the chemicals that they're all spraying around everywhere.
Speaker 4: (54:02) We've had this in daycare centers, I'll run it at night when everybody's gone, gone home. And this was before this all hit. But just to stop this spread of flus and colds and we've actually shown 30% reduction and yeah, colds and flus within the kids and stuff. And yeah, so cars, houses, what we're doing is becoming home with our groceries and sticking everything in a box. And I've just got these really small ozone generators and you just put the end of the tube in there and run it for a half an hour and all get into going to try and get touch all the surfaces. If you can get the high concentration, then it is proven that there is no microbe, that it's resistant to ozone
Speaker 3: (54:53) Shoot. That is powerful come so that we can really, really protect yourself from whatever else.
Speaker 4: (55:00) Yeah. So when, so when all this crisis set my phones yeah, it's just, it's still a, there's still a lot, not a lot of people that really know about it. And also this is kind of you out there are ozone, it's dangerous as bad if you breathe it, you're going to die and things like that. And all we're saying is if you cutting safety labels and everything, and if you, if you operate this machine safely,
Speaker 3: (55:30) Every, everything is dangerous. If you use it the wrong way, car is dangerous. If you don't follow the rules on the road, you know that that should not be prohibited from us, from, from using it in, in the, in that when it's going to actually benefit their health.
Speaker 4: (55:47) Correct. Yeah. And not, and not ruin the environment, you know, so, so it'd be the penetration than anything else in the market that we can see actually, because it's because it's a guest that we'll get to just to see the hidden areas and things. So
Speaker 3: (56:11) What about ozone water? Just last thing. So putting ozone into the water
Speaker 4: (56:17) Water is amazing for us. Yeah. And yeah, so we actually have just small resonate ozone generators. If all you want to do is drink ozonated water, it's getting enhanced active oxygen into the body. We should be drinking water anyway. Why not super charge oxygenated water. You can drink up to eight classes a day and you start off slowly and you and you build up drinking on an empty stomach and it's really great energy boost. Boost your immune system also on a water. The students, you know, the hand sanitizer is outside of all the supermarkets at the moment on a hand and these pop paper was skin conditions and things like that. We've got studies that show that ozonated water is significantly more effective than hand sanitizer and it's, and it's good for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to dry. Our skin is actually really good for us. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (57:30) Wow. That's powerful. Okay, so everybody go to naturalozone.co.nz. Check out all the machines that come here and what the different applications and you can, you can educate people to people. Buy something, a machine of you, you can educate them in the use of it and do that virtually or how do you do, do that?
Speaker 4: (57:52) Yeah. Yeah. So give me a call if you're unsure where to start. And join our newsletter and we will have, we'll be coming out with more videos soon. And we also have oxygen concentrators when, when, what happened, when all this, when we started to go into lockdown because I have oxygen concentrators and stop cause I used in conjunction with industrialized zone and I was doing therapy then. Everybody started panic buying, well my oxygen concentrators. And we, we stopped up for on public and, and, and generally people are getting these as if you've got a lung condition and breathing oxygen or see if you've got SIO PD or if you're an S medic or something like that. Having a oxygen concentrator is a really good idea.
Speaker 3: (58:54) Yeah. We've got one extra tour, hyperbaric just to top up, you know, mum's levels, you know, if she doesn't want to get into the chamber cause it's a big mission. Just to, just to have a top off, you know, it's a really good thing to have I think, and especially if you're going to get sick or anything, so.
Speaker 3: (59:14) Okay. So you've got those as well. So you've got a whole re array of, of different devices and you know, the rectal staff and all that. You can explain it cause people would be like, how do I do that?
Speaker 4: (59:26) Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, like usually, yeah, if you want to prevent disease and live a long and healthy life, I would really say, you know, at home I was on therapy is biohacking dream. And, and will save you lots of money in the, in the long term, cause you won't need to go to the doctor anymore and you won't need to get some fluids.
Speaker 3: (59:51) But prevention isn't it? That's what we're all about, not being there,
Speaker 4: (59:56) But usually what's happening. People get disease and they find out about ozone therapy that come to me. Right. But if you're not comfortable with our zone, at the very least drink that water, it's really good for us. Yeah. And, and drink that daily.
Speaker 3: (01:00:11) Put it in your ear like that. That can't be too painful.
Speaker 3: (01:00:16) That's fantastic. Kim, thank you so much for your time and your information. I'll grab all those links off you. So naturalozone.co.nz. You've got any questions for Kim? Michelle, she'll answer those heavily for you. Get this word out there. We need to be sharing. This is why we have the show so we can share great information with each other and get, get that to the people that need it. So thanks very much for your time today. Come any last words before we go,
Speaker 4: (01:00:41) But just, just thanks so much, Lisa, for having me on the show. Really enjoyed talking to you and yeah, look forward to your upcoming podcast and reading your book.
Speaker 3: (01:00:51) Great. And now that we're connected, we'll be dangerous.
Speaker 1: (01:00:57) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
14 May 2020
Sleep Apnoea and It's Implication with Jez Morris
01:05:56
In this interview Lisa interviews Jez Morris, a clinical sleep physiologist on everything sleep apnoea and also cardiac testing. They do a deep dive into the symptoms and treatments and consequences of not picking up sleep apnoea.
Lisa has a personal interest in this as it pertains to brain function and rehabilitation and it was one of the key factors in saving her mum Isobel's life after a major aneurysm and stroke.
Jez explains the different types of sleep apnoea and co morbidities and risk factors.
You can visit Jez and his team at Fast Paced Solutions
It was a common belief in the need for equitable health care – and improved accessibility for all – that led to three healthcare professionals joining forces to provide primary-based diagnostic services to GPs, specialists and concerned patients themselves.
Fast Pace Solutions offers a range of cardiorespiratory diagnostic tests aimed at early and fast diagnosis of heart, lung and sleep-related complaints. Working closely with a range of health professionals and operating out of their new premises in the Strandon Professionals Centre, Michael Maxim, Jez Morris, and Alan Thomson want to encourage more people who have issues with breathing, dizziness, palpitations or sleep to get themselves checked out.
Ambulatory blood pressure monitoring (ABPM) is concerned solely with detecting problems related to high blood pressure – a hugely significant health risk which is currently on the rise.
Blood pressure monitoring involves wearing a cuff linked to a small device which measures your blood pressure every half hour (or hourly during the night) over a 24-hour period, while you go about your day.
Many studies have confirmed this method is superior to clinic blood pressure testing in predicting future cardiovascular events and targeting organ damage. This means your doctor can provide a much more accurate diagnosis and effective management plan
Holter Monitoring
A Holter monitor is a small, lightweight heart rate monitor that measures the rhythm as well as the rate of your heart for a continuous period of 24 or 48 hours.
The monitor has three leads which are attached to your chest via ECG electrodes. The Holter monitor's primary purpose is to correlate symptoms such as heart palpitations, rapid breathing or dizziness with the ECG (see below) and rule in or out any abnormal rhythm activity. The patient is required to document all symptoms in a diary.
24 Hour Holter Monitor Exercise Tolerance Testing
An exercise tolerance test (or ETT) requires a patient to exercise on a treadmill in the clinic while being monitored by a 12-lead ECG (electrocardiogram) and blood pressure machine and is often used if we don't pick anything up on a Holter heart monitor.
The ETT replicates how your body behaves under stress and can pick up issues such as angina and demonstrate how adequate your heart function is as well as your exercise tolerance. Chest pain and shortness of breath while exercising are common indicators for this test.
Cardiac Event Monitoring
Similar to a Holter monitor, but worn for a full week, cardiac event monitors (or cardiac event recorders) are used to correlate a patient's heart rate and rhythm to their ECG (electrocardiogram) over a period of 7 days.
A cardiac event recorder is preferred when symptoms are less frequent and allows a patient to activate an "Event" button to snapshot a rhythm when they experience any abnormal symptoms. It is often used for younger patients.
7 Day Holter
ECG and Oximetry
An electrocardiogram (ECG) measures the electrical activity of your heart via 12 leads attached to your chest and body. It takes only a few minutes and records your heart's rhythm, checking for abnormal activity which may indicate damage to your heart or blood vessels caused by high blood pressure. An ECG can detect problems long before they become significant issues. In fact, everyone over the age of 45 should have an ECG.
Oximetry measures your oxygen levels while you sleep, or for selected hours of the day.
Resting ECG
Sleep Studies
Getting enough quality sleep at the right times can help protect your mental health, physical health, quality of life, and safety. Snoring is one of the most under-acknowledged symptoms in the management of health. Although often seen as a benign problem, it can cause disharmony in relationships as well as significant disruption to sleep.
Ongoing sleep deficiency can raise your risk for some chronic health problems such as high blood pressure, heart failure, diabetes and many breathing disorders – sleep apnoea is a major cause of cardiac and respiratory issues. We offer an advanced at home sleep study to assess the severity of snoring/sleep apnoea and impact of cardiac and respiratory health.
Level 3 Sleep Study
Level 4a Sleep Study (Oximetry)
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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"
Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information
ABOUT THE BOOK:
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com.
Speaker 2: (00:12) Welcome back to the show. This week I have an exciting episode with a clinical sleep physiologist. Jeez Morris, who's been a friend of the family for years and we've actually been in business together. We had a hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinic, but today we're going to be talking about sleep apnea, what it is, what the risks are involved when you have sleep apnea, how to assess it. The symptoms and sinuses are really, really important topic. It's so important that, you know, I don't believe that my mum would be alive if we hadn't picked up that she had sleep apnea. So it's a very interesting episode to learn all about sleep, what it does for your body, and it's a really fantastic interview. So I hope you enjoy the show with, jeez Morris. Um, just a reminder to I have my new book relentless out, which is available on my website.
Speaker 2: (01:03) Um, it tells a story and part of that story, uh, from bringing her back, uh, from a major aneurism, a part of that rehabilitation journey was, uh, diagnosing her with sleep apnea in dealing with that. So it's really pertinent to today's topic. Um, I am currently working on a brain rehabilitation course that I'm going to be offering to people since the release of my mom's book and the story of her, um, incredible, amazing comeback journey, um, from being not much over a vegetative state to being now fully functioning again, um, fully healthy. Um, I have been inundated with requests for people wanting help with brain rehabilitation, whether it's strokes, dementia, Alzheimer's, uh, TBIs, concussions and so on. So I'm in that, in the throws of making that course because, uh, you know, I just can't deal with so many one-on-one. Um, so look out for that. It's going to be available hopefully within the next couple of months if I can get my energy. Um, and really looking forward to sharing that with the world as well on the back of this book. So right now let's go over to James Morris and learn all about sleep apnea.
Speaker 2: (02:16) Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here. and pushing the limits. So thank you for being with me again today. I have a friend of mine who is a sleep physiologist, a clinical sleep physiologist. Jeez Morris, how are you doing? Geez. Oh, very, very good now. Um, jeez and I have a bit of a history together. Um, I'm uh, he, when my mum had a stroke and everyone knows that she had an aneurysm and a stroke a few years ago, um, and I was doing better with the hospital because I wanted the sleep apnea test done and I couldn't get one done. Um, saved for going to my friend dues who is asleep physiologists and saying, geez, can you come and help me please? Can we do a test? Um, we did that um, slightly against the roles
Speaker 3: (03:00) at the hospital at the time, wasn't that, uh, we came back with severe sleep apnea with oxygen and then was at the worst point at around 70% during the night, which is pretty disastrous. So I'm going to talk to you today with uh, jeez about, um, sleep apnea, what it is, what you need to be aware of. And we're also going to go into a new cardiac system that is, that got there. That's going to be really interesting. So jeez, firstly, thank you for helping me back then. My pleasure. I don't know if my mum would be sitting here today. I'm healthy and well, if it wasn't for you coming in and doing a stake assessment, it's that important and this is why the subject is really important to me to get out there and to let people know about this. So just can you just tell me a little bit your background, um, and then you know, what is sleep apnea?
Speaker 3: (03:52) Okay. My background is actually an anesthetic technology. I used to work as an anesthetic technician here at base. Um, and as the years went by I got approached by a colleague of mine yeah. And T surgeon David Tolbert who was on a real interest in sleep, Mmm. Apnea because of the upper airway and asked me if I could help him with regards to treatment. And that the relationship developed and I got really interested in this area because it's so fascinating that eventually we set up I primary based sleep clinic that then sort of spread a bit and there's quite a few around the country. Um, because sleep is something we all take for granted in some respects, but it actually has a significant role within normal health. Hmm. So that, that's, that's how I started in this field. I'm still doing it 18 years later.
Speaker 3: (04:47) Yep. And you've, so you've had a series of clinics throughout New Zealand at one stage and um, yeah, sleep apnea is what is it defined as specific place? So w w how, you know, people hear this word but they don't often know what the heck it means. Okay. So sleep apnea is a condition that has pretty sure, I realize it basically pauses in breathing during sleep, uh, for a number of reasons. Um, it affects about two to 7% of the population. However, that's with moderate to severe. Um, basically, but what we talk about now is sleep disordered breathing because we know there's a range of respiratory sleep issues affecting the patient. So sleep apnea itself is fundamentally, you can tell, cause if you've got obstructive sleep apnea, which is the main one [inaudible] it's a classic symptom. So all sleep obstructive sleep apnea, but not everybody who shores has obstructive sleep apnea.
Speaker 3: (05:56) Okay. So that's key. So snoring is, is like, um, a pain in a joint. If we are a runner or sports person, if you get pain in your neck, you don't tend to ignore it. Yeah. You want to know what's happening because it's an abnormal process, right? Shoring is an app, normal process. And as a symptom of something, it could be benign, it may not. So we actually say that up to about 20% of the population will suffer from pathological or issues related to snoring. And that's the key here. So if you snore to start, you really should just get it checked out. We know that snoring gives you a higher chance of developing high blood pressure. Hmm. Um, from there, high blood pressure can lead to other cardiac and physiological issues. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that's where we start. Okay. The most common is obstructive sleep apnea.
Speaker 3: (06:57) Then we move into things like central sleep apnea. That's what mum has. Yeah. Because basically if we see these conditions, there's lots of reasons why we'll see central sweep here. We see it in severe cardiac problems and basically it's a miscommunication where you just physically stopped breathing. So obstructive apnea is the, is the airwaves physically shutting off? Yeah. So you get this jerky movement of patients who have got it until they breathe. Central sleep apnea is a pause, just a stop in breathing. Wow. So they will be breathing quite normally. Then they stop, go silent. There's no effort to breathe nothing. Um, and you can see it for a number of reasons. In your mom's case, it was due to a stroke, uh, that caused her to stop breathing. But we see it in neurological conditions. We see it in change. Stokes breathing is a common cause of central apnea change.
Speaker 3: (07:58) Stokes is a word that sort of worries me when I heard that. It's what we tend to see in the pre pre mortal issue. So just before people die, they go into this change. However, there's 31 reasons we see more, more that we can see, change, dehydration, heart conditions, all sorts of things because there's not, it's a metabolic condition. It's why we get changed up. So anything that can cause a metabolic issue can cause change steps. Yup. And this is this waxing and waning of, of the respiratory pattern. The center of a nice smooth process. This is what got a particular sound to it.
Speaker 3: (08:48) It's usually, it's, it's a form of hyperventilation. She'll see the patient sort of get deeper and deeper, deeper, and then weighing off again and then flat. So people refer to it sometimes as like a death rattle. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a scary, scary way. And so that's, and so that's happens when you've got a central problem that can happen. Central sleep apnea can be caused by different Cheyne Stokes is one pot, one tile of central apnea. Some people just physiologically stop breathing. Yeah. Because of a stroke or a head injury, a neurological condition. Something in the brain that's been affected by the strokes, our blood supply to a particular gland or a particular part of, uh, of the primary. Primarily. Yeah. Neurological. Yeah. Primarily. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right, so that's two of them. Is there a, is there a third variation? There's a few other ones.
Speaker 3: (09:50) We've got hyperventilation, which is, um, a reduction of breathing of at least 50% in the, in the volume of breath, but taking with a subsequent, um, reaction. So in other words, you know, your oxygen level starts to drop or you physiologically wake up. Yeah. Uh, hyperventilation in itself, I mean, everyone will stop breathing and the brief assert, so about two, about five times out, we're not going to stress too much about it from a risk perspective, but hyperventilation, we're seeing more and more because like obstructive sleep apnea, one of the main cause of that is weight. Obesity is, is, you know what I mean? Again, within healthcare, I know that people feel that we pushed away question a lot, but obesity with good is a significant health issue that we're not, we don't seem to be successfully addressing. Yep. So you've then got hyperventilation syndromes, you've got obesity hyperventilation syndrome that can be significant, uh, detrimental to long term health.
Speaker 3: (11:01) Yeah. Okay. And this has seen a bit of a, um, you know, a circle because what's your, what's your obese and then you have this, then you'll get more obese because there's, there's a big, big connection between things like leptin levels and stuff that control appetite, especially in fragmentation. Yeah. So theoretically you mean the worst you sleep the hungry you are. Because at the end of the day, that's how we function as, as a survival mechanism, as a building. Yet, if we're feeling low on energy, we tend to eat to get fuel to feel energetic. Unfortunately, a lot of the foods that we might grate to when we're feeling like that tend to be the highest fat snacky type foods. So in a lot of cases, people who are, who are significantly overweight may not eat big meals, but they eat are very, but a lot of very small, high fat milk, which compounds the issue. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (12:01) And that's done in Graham on as being a part of that equation. Yeah. So your satiation mechanisms aren't quite as good and of course when you, when you're not sleeping well, I mean there's, there is a whole lot of knock on effects, which I've talked about on a couple of episodes on the podcast. So it all starts to tie into to each other and has huge impacts on your, your mental health, your physical health, your brain, you know, mission, everything.
Speaker 3: (12:29) Yeah. Well what we tend to see in people who to be, cause that's what we're really pushing her obstructive sleep apnea. These patients will first of all go to bed. They'll then start to sleep, start to snore. So sleep in itself. It's a very complex process. People always think you're awake, you're asleep. That's it. It's not. We talk, we talk in w we talk about sleep architecture, how your sleep is structured. So for the first seven minutes or so stage one sleep, that's the time you're getting comfortable, your eyes are closed. It's not true sleep. It's that like pre sweet sort of process. Then then we're supposed to drop into stage two, which is what we define as true sleep is when you actually go to sleep physiologically things start to settle down. You're hearing still going so you can still be erased at that stage and we spend 20 to 25 minutes there and then we move into what we call Delta wave sleep stages for him. When the brain goes into that slow wavy pattern, so you've basically got an inactive mind instill a veritable active body so you can still Twitch and stop after about 90 minutes of these processes you then stack and drop into what is REM sleep,
Speaker 3: (13:46) dream fell asleep. Yeah. Which is very, very important within a human, so like, and then we just cycle through that every 90 minutes or so. So you get to have about five, six, seven periods of REM during the night. What we tend to see in people with obstructive sleep apnea is that they'll start to snore at stage one too. Stages three four they'll start to obstruct. Once they stopped breathing, about six seconds later, their oxygen levels start to drop. We then get this sympathetic nerve activation that causes them to physiologically wake up to their heart, beats faster, that blood pressure goes up. Um, and it brings them back to a stage where the obstruction disappears, which may be level one, level two, but that Reiki did deep sleep. And then a lot of cases that these patients don't get true REM periods, pure sleep architecture.
Speaker 3: (14:43) It's completely fragmented. And we're talking, and we, I've seen people stop breathing, I mean over a hundred times an hour, which means is that our heart rate variability is phenomenal during the night. So in effect, these people are working harder to sleep, to stay awake. So of course, but the body's a learning mechanism, it starts to say, well, I'm burning more energy doing this than I am by just staying awake. So people tend to start to develop this really bad sleep pattern where they can't get to sleep properly or they wake up frequently during the night. So you mean, you mean sleep is really important for things like growth hormone production, cortisol productions, all of these things. Your adrenals have hormones. They have very poor short term memory, their fatigue, blood pressure tends to be high and you mean eventually things are going to shut off.
Speaker 3: (15:40) Yeah. And, and your health is going to seriously be a farrier, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And this is, this is so it's so important and just not, you know, all the sort of stuff needs to be taught at school. So what happens in the sleep process? Cause we all just fake. We go to bed and we go to sleep. You know, we don't know about deep sleep and REM sleep and in the life stages of sleep and how it, how it actually affects our physiology the next day and how our brain function isn't going to work. And what about the, I read a study recently on the brainwashing. Yeah. Function that happens when we're in asleep and that the brain shrinks. You're talking about, yeah. You're talking about amyloid. Cool. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 3: (16:24) Which is good when we're young because I think, I mean, this is getting into real neurophysiology. So, excuse me. So basically when you're growing or developing synopsis, it sits with that neuro logical function. Mmm. It's a, it's a byproduct of metabolism, of neurophysiological by metabolism and needs to be washed out. Um, which tends to happen during sleep while you were asleep and we beat her is dispersed ready for the next day. So it washes out the break. Yeah. Yep. It's a brainwash. That's what they're calling it. Yeah. They flush it out. Yep. And is it important a protein, but it flushes out all the and the rent. However, what we find sleep apnea patients or insomnia patients and where is that? I don't fully do they, that's why they wake up feeling groggy. Yeah. Yeah. Confused sometimes. Um, we noticed in outside of ms patients that there is a significant higher level within Sam or in place. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that is an important function as well. And we can see that not just in sleep pattern. We can see that in insomniacs and people. Wow. Wow. That is fascinating because if we not washing out those plaques every day and getting rid of them as that cause they build up when we're awake, from what I understand, we're functioning. Yeah. It starts to up over time. And this,
Speaker 2: (17:50) you know, over a period of 20 years can lead to where they're suggesting it can lead to Alzheimer's. Early onset Alzheimer's. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long side process. So if we can get it early, we can, we can stop that process happening. Um, and this is really, this is the whole point of this conversation is, is to get people to be aware of what are the signs of sleep apnea, what are the things that are going to happen when you're asleep as off. Um, and what we can do about it. Um, uh, you know, we referred, um, just a bit earlier to mum's story. Um, and mum was in the hospital, excuse me, um, for three months and she'd been in Wellington, uh, in the acute phase and the ICU and then in the neurological ward down the air and she'd been on supplemental oxygen.
Speaker 2: (18:36) Um, when, when she came back through to new Poloma, she was taken off of supplemental oxygen cause she was now stabilized if you like. Um, and I noticed that she was gone from terrible to really, really terrible. Like there was hardly any higher function going on at all. Um, and that's when my brain started to tick over and you know, my history with, you know, um, training at altitude and data races at altitude and I'd seen like things like she had a bacteria in the mouth that was just doing gross, horrible things. Yeah. And that was a really a signal to me like, Hmm. Bacteria, lack of oxygen. Uh, jeez. Sleep apnea basically was the connection that I made there. Um, oxygen in the body, you know, and lack of oxygen causes bacteria to spread and, and proliferate. Um, so it's really, really important that we, we address this. This is not something we should be putting off. So you is inherit in your clinics, you would do the sleep assessment on people, which is an overnight procedure or a test.
Speaker 2: (19:44) Then if someone comes back with sleep apnea, they get a C-PAP machine? Well, it depends, right? So first of all, the key to anyone as to acknowledge that they have sleep patient. So the reason we can tell people who have sleep issues is people always say, you're mean I have sleep problem, but during the day they still function. Normally people with a true sleep problem don't function so well. So that constantly fatigued. Yeah. Tired, short term memory, it's usually quite poor because they're not dreaming. And part of the process of dreaming is the burn information to a hard drive if you like. So if you're not dreaming, you're not retain that information. So short term memory tends to disappear. There's petite. Quite often they're slightly on the higher. So those are the key things. Now I definitely, yeah, if you're not snoring, it's not obstructive sleep apnea, but it could be upper airways resistance syndrome or something like that. So in other words, you're having difficulty breathing during the night.
Speaker 3: (20:47) People often wake up for headaches. They often wake up during the night,
Speaker 3: (20:51) um, maybe once or twice. Um, so these are the common symptoms we see meet. But 70% of most GP consults will involve the word fatigue. Tired, no energy. Yeah. So that should be your key. If you're feeling tired during the day, most people come by their GPS because the GPS are becoming more and more aware of sleep specific. Um, because we spend one third of the day doing it. Yeah. Um, we would then go through a simple questionnaire like you're tired and scale Epworth sleepiness score is that, is that common tired and scale that we use to address how try it or how it affected people. And this involves eight simple questions about the ability to fall asleep doing certain things. And I would have run this through with Uma and basically it's things like if you sat reading a book, what's your chance of falling asleep? Yeah. Not possible. Moderate be high or high or sitting at traffic lights. Um, you mean what's the chances of you falling asleep? And believe it or not, there are people who want to positively, hi. Oh God. Every question. I remember one person telling me in Oxford, he said, I said, yeah, I mean, it's not very good if you're falling asleep at traffic lights. And he said, yeah, we can, we can sit for 20 minutes to traffic lights. So maybe we need to readdress it so that we're sleeping.
Speaker 3: (22:17) Then we would probably carry out for most people who complain of sleep. The first thing I think to do would be to carry out a very simple respiratory sleep study and there's a couple of types you can do at home. There's all this imagery which surely looks up to gin levels during your sleep and that's a little clip that you wear on your finger, touched with a little monitor, some of wireless, they go on the watches and that's the simplest way and it has a very good correlation to sleep apnea so we can use it as a very simple cheap test. Yeah. As an a level three sleep study, which looks at as a thoracic efforts. So we're looking for specific obstructive central events or under breathing with a nasal cannula, an oxygen saturation monitor, and they can be done at home. Yeah, every simple test I can give us really detailed information, but level two sleep studies is when you're getting into neurophysiology side of sleep.
Speaker 3: (23:16) Now 96% of sleep disorders. Alright. There were spiritually, mostly the very small percentage are the neurological disorders that we see that REM behavior disorders, the narcolepsy's, all of those more complex disease States that really require much higher levels of Oh, acuity and testing. Right. But the majority, and that's a medicine what we're supposed to address, the majority of patients can be, can be looked at from a respiratory. Yep. Um, once we get a test, we can then identify the severity of any underlying respiratory problem. No. Talk about sleep. Obstructive sleep apnea, which is where we get airway physically closes during the night. Yep. We talk about mild, moderate, severe. Yeah. Mine is any and vent above five to 15 events. Then we talk about moderate, which is 15 to 30 events an hour and anything over 30 we talk about severe. Yeah. This scale is really more focused on funding of therapies.
Speaker 3: (24:27) Yeah. It's on impact of disease. That's terrible. Well, we know that people with certain tend to have a higher risk morbidity, mortality, but we also know that people with moderate with other pathology, awesome have significant risks. But more and more evidence is saying that if you don't treat the mild, they will become exactly there. Related to it is at the bottom of the cleft problem that we have. It's like fun. It always comes down to funding not how healthy you're going to be, but you'll be basically that's sleep apnea. Yep. Obstructive sleep apnea, obstructive sleep apnea can't be treated. Yeah. That's the good thing. What we talk about is things like conservative measures. Conservative measures are always going weight loss. Yeah. Fitness levels. Yep. Cause obviously the fitter you are just sending you out in the majority of cases. Yes. Um, so those are, those are simple things you can do to help.
Speaker 3: (25:40) However the research is not green. Yup. Yup. For ag. And then we're moving more into the surgical options. Obviously you've got the weight related surgery, which is very difficult. Very Patrick. Yeah. To get, quite often we look at the upper airway as being part of dish mechanism that's causing the issue finish things like the obvious nasal deviations that we can. But you can see the obvious ones from rugby Plains, but obviously there are also, there's also subtle deviations. Then there's things within the knees or pathway that can cause problems. Their adenoids leaving you. Now tonsils is a controversial area in the area of sleep medicine. Yep. Because tonsils or something that's roughly what disappears. We get, Oh yeah, yeah. Um, however, saying that it would be the conversations I have with GPS about this is quite interesting because being in this, but I look at tonsils and everybody, well look at the back of the throat cause I'm looking at what we call a modern putty index, which is how far back the larynx and the size of the tongue.
Speaker 3: (26:54) Um, but also I'm looking at tonsils and quite frequently you'll see extremely large asymptomatic in males predominantly. Wow. So if you've got tonsils that are kissing but asymptomatic, which means you don't get tonsillitis as such, then they're going to be causing an issue. Yeah, sometimes. Yep. Yes. Well in children now for sleep disorders. Um, the first line of therapy, children who might snort snoring to all the parents out there in children is not, it's not cute. It's not cute. And noise from a child while they sleep, um, is not cute cause they're supposed to be perfect breathers. Yup. But the first line of therapy, now children, but snoring or anything like that, just taking out there, don't bother with sleep studies. They just take out the tonsils and the admins, which in a significant number of cases can improve it. And there was a study out of the States where they took, uh, patients, children diagnosed with ADHD, trying to remember the study.
Speaker 3: (27:56) Yep. And what they did was, uh, they took this group of patients were all treated, remove tonsils and adenoids. And what they found was that 50% of them, I think it was 50% ended up being taken off that Ritalin medication because it was hype. Children react differently to tiredness than adults. We get, we get authentic, we get children get hyperactive when they're tired. And we've seen that because everyone who knows your kids and then they crash. Yeah, exactly. Cause what they are is tired. Yeah. So when they get tired they send them like they run around.
Speaker 3: (28:33) So surgery, surgery can help in some cases with obvious deformities. Um, success rate surgery for sleep apnea in the mild to moderate, probably about 63%. Wow. And surgery like anything carries Chris from an aesthetics from the surgery itself. So it's not a guaranteed cure. Then we're moving into things like most guides, uh, mandibular splints that designed the whole, the jewel in a prominent position pulling the, pulling the tunnel way from the back of the throat because as you fall asleep, nobody can physically swallow that up. Yeah. But their tonnes can drop back and include the airway. That's why in recess we pull the jaw forward. If you pull the jaw forward, your pull the tongue away from the back of the truck making that larger space. Monday splints can work very well. Um, there's different types of over the cancer, not so successful, but one is designed by a specialist orthodontist of which there are a number now in the country, um, can have an 80 plus percent success rate.
Speaker 3: (29:39) That can be very good, but I probably won't be able to do that work very well. Okay. Yeah. Um, for more mild cases and some moderates, there's a thing called microvalve, Serafin therapies, Sarah events. These are the things you stick a little plastic over your nose and what they do is you breathe in normally through lots of holes, but as you breathe through your nose, lots of the valves closed down and one valve remains open. So you get like a, what we call a valve silver effect, like blowing through your nose and that back pressure keeps the airway splinted open. Wow. So it's a physiological form of C-PAP, which is what, yeah. Yeah. What's his, what mom's got like a sticking plaster that you see some athletes or is it on the inside? The strips on the outside. I for anatomical for collapse where the AOS actually collapse.
Speaker 3: (30:45) So those things pull the nose. I was slightly out. These things stick over the, there's over the holes here. Oh yeah. That there. Interesting to work with. Very interesting feeling. But they can work. Probably don't use that run ongoing costs. You've got to use them every day. If you don't use them, it comes back. Yeah. So they're quite expensive. Right. But as an alternative to seatbelt, there's also this tummy device that don't think we turn the stabilizing device, the TST, very bizarre looking device that basically works upon the fact that if your tongue falls back, you pull your tongue forward. Now in the old days, very old days of anesthesia, we used to have a thing called a tongue clip, but we could collect the tongue, pull it out to open up the airway. Um, we've moved on from there. This is a TSD is like a suction device that you squeeze, stick your tongue in and it sucks your tongue forward.
Speaker 3: (31:47) Yup. They read it to be cheap. Some people swear by them. I've tried most of these things. I couldn't sleep with it. This is the, it isn't, but it is an option. It is an option to try the only thing guaranteed to reverse sleep apnea. Yeah. Or it is what we call continuous positive airway pressure. Yup. And basically in simple terms is a pneumatic splint, so it blows air into the airway via either a nasal mask or a full face mask. Yup. While you're asleep, um, you can get very little cushions now that you wear like oxygen, things that can also be used for this machine. Um, and that blows air in. So when you breathe, you're breathing out against pressure so that then hold the airway open. Yeah. It's a new magic process. So you breathe in and out again to this flow or like that if you can wear it is guaranteed to reverse obstructive sleep apnea.
Speaker 3: (32:55) Yeah, it's gold standard for therapy. And interestingly enough, it's only been around since about 1982 so relatively new therapy, but is now widely used worldwide for, that's the one that mum's got. Um, and she has to wear it every night and all night. Um, and you know, it's quite an invasive thing to have on. It's not pleasant for her. Um, having the central, uh, sleep apnea is guaranteed in that case? Like with obstructive or is it a bit, a bit more, it really depends upon that the, the, the reasoning behind the central event. Yeah. Um, in most cases it can improve it to an extent that it's okay. Um, in some cases it doesn't, but we stop an obstructive component. It proves your physiology changed to make the change they him and go away. There are some machines that are specifically designed to treat certain types of breathing, like Cheyne Stokes, the ASB system.
Speaker 3: (34:03) Yeah. That can only be used. There are certain, a very small group of patients who can't use ASP because there's a higher risk of problems. Right. Like with any therapy, there's always risks. CPR tends to be generally safe if used appropriately in the right patients. And there are then machines that will provide backup. Correct. So if the machine senses that you're not breathing, it doesn't ventilate you, but it reminds you to take a breath. Yep. So we can use things called by levels or bilateral S T's with, with a minimum respiratory REM required. Yeah. So it will, it will. If you stop breathing, it will cook you with air to say take a breath. Is it the machine that mum's got? You know, because it regulates when she's breathing it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then when she stops breathing or you hear the machine crank up, yeah, you might, your mom's on auto type ventilate auto sheet. We'll have backup, right? Yeah. Right. And this is similar to what I've been delayed heroes in the hospital and not flight.
Speaker 3: (35:17) C-PAP is not ventilation. C-PAP. C-PAP is stopping a reverse vacuum cleaner to your nose and away you go. It's, it's, it's helping. It's not breathing for you. It's like a walking stick. It's making your breathing more effective than if you weren't using it. I know ventilator is physically breathing for you. Now there are two types of ventilator says invasive ventilation. Well there's noninvasive ventilation. Noninvasive ventilation is legacy pap, but basically that the pressures are split. So you breathe in at one pressure and you breathe out at another pressure. Yep. And there is a, that can be a backup rate added to that. So that's, that's term. There's noninvasive ventilation. Those are the ones we tend to see used on patients with hyperventilation syndrome or severely large patient who cannot tolerate time levels of C-PAP. Breathing against the pressure of 10 centimeters may not be as bad, but the minute you start to get to 60 18 prep coming sent to me is a pressure that's a hurricane blowing, you know, so then we need to look at how we change. So we have an inspiratory pressure pressure, noninvasive ventilation. So in any form of respiratory failure, which is the end game of some disease States, they work really, really well. And it's becoming more and more used as opposed to inter invasive ventilation in a lot of cases. Now I've just read some reports out covert, they're starting to look at noninvasive ventilation as an alternative, right? Probably with noninvasive ventilation.
Speaker 3: (37:04) Oh yeah. So you've gotta be really tough and the other ventilator, no, see, perhaps not recommended covert patients anyway, even though it's starting to be used as an alternative, but needs to be used very carefully. And we've got, um, uh, I've been looking at the research. Of course, Jason and I had a hyperbaric oxygen clinic, which we opened up to mum's story. Um, but the hyperbaric and covert, um, it's showing promising results. Uh, I, I saw, I saw that, yeah. The issue with coach, we're in the infancy of a disease state. We don't know what the longterm benefits, risks, outcomes next 10 years, 20 years of research is going to be around the last three. But hell's happened to us. So we keep on sleep apnea.
Speaker 3: (38:07) Yeah, very true. But yeah, so, so, so treatment for sleep apnea with with C-PAP is very, very common. It's effective. Um, we really started to look at muscle diseases well because what we noticed with patients with mild disease, so they can still suffer all the same as severe disease. They can still be cycling, hypertensive or control. They can still be difficult to control diabetics. They can still suffer extreme daytime tiredness, um, and things like that. So, so C-PAP can be used as a management tool from mold too severe. Yep. So we were one of the first groups that probably made it more available to the mind. Yeah. Cases because in our opinion, the benefits fired out, weighed and the risks associated with treatment and at the end of the day, every therapy of any kind should be the decision that the patient not absolutely.
Speaker 3: (39:10) Depending on what that treatment is, of course, and something like that. I don't see very low risk with a high reward in medicine. That's what we're looking. Is there any difference between when you were, say I'm now reading a sleep thing study last week is sleeping on your side versus sleeping on your back and can you actually sleep, and this is a question after I read that I was on your back all the time because of the sleep app machine. Is she actually able to sleep on the side? Yeah, of course she is. The machine she has got will automatically adjust for any change impression, so it will go up or down as required. Yeah. That's the benefits of that type of machine that that algorithm look. Positional sleep. Yes. You can talk to any partner who has suffered a partner who snores after a glass of wine or beer or whatever.
Speaker 3: (40:05) We always poke them to roll them onto their site. Positional treatment for snoring can work and it's one of the conservative methods we recommend you. I mean there are very fancy machines are designed to be worn around the neck. Um, tell it when you were starting to. Sure. And then it plus as you would look for the electric shops to turn you on your side. Wow. The, the, the most practical tool you've got for positional sleep apnea is what your grandmother would have said, which is show up button in the back of your pajamas or get a tennis ball with a loop of elastic. Thread it through. I'm wearing like a backpack and that physiologically keep you on your side. There's no doubt that we can see. So obviously Pat on the back because all this depression is pushing down on their side. All that is moved away from, especially on the left side. Wow. If you turn onto your left, it's easier to breathe. That's why in the recovery position we turn people to their left. Wow.
Speaker 3: (41:09) Pressure on their, on their venous return helps improve blood pressure, but it also moves and everything away from, from where your track here. So, um, you know, I, I sleep on my side but when I sleep on my left I can always feel my own heartbeat and then I always get worried. I'm putting pressure on my heart on the other side. If anything, if anything, probably be more on the right cause that's why we talk about pregnant women with debt gravid uterus. If you, if you lay on your side, that weight comes on to the vena cave on the right side. So actually restricts blood flow, especially return. Yeah. So your blood pressure theoretically needs to be higher. So in medicine we tend to turn people onto their left side and especially pregnant, when will we say light his left side. Great tap. Positional sleep can work very, very well in those people who are purely shorts.
Speaker 3: (42:09) Yep. Yeah. It makes slightly improved sleep apnea, but because of all the other factors involved, it's not always there. Okay. But a sleep study, you can tell us that because part of the sleep study told us which side the patient is sleeping on when is happening. Yep. And we can, we can see that so we can recommend position therapy. What about like, um, I know it was several and you probably have a, have a crack at me for talking about him on the phone. Guys. I, he, he sits on his back and he sleeps on the couch. He wants to sit. I sit him up higher with pillows, um, in behind them and then a snoring is a lot less. Yeah, if you laying flat, yeah, it's okay to raise the head of the bedside. If you get a raise, the head of the bed, it's always been to put a pillow under the mattress as opposed to empty your head because the biggest problem is it a head forward and you make this more obstructive. Oh, if you want to put it in the yourself and put it in the shoulders, your headsets slightly flat or sniffing the morning air. This is the position we used to call it an anesthesia. So their head is flushed back, straightens the airway and it's easier to temporary sleeping in a chair. It's not a cool thing because you're not going to, you're not going to sleep, you're not going to sleep as well. Especially in patients who let's say have respiratory problems COPT they've got what we call overlap syndrome, so they've got sleep apnea.
Speaker 3: (43:42) They tend to sleep in chess cause they feel they can breathe each year. The problem is is it's not very good for you from a health perspective and sleeping setup because of venous return, pressure on the kidneys and the heart. Other things probably blood flow to the brain. Yeah. Yeah. So if, if people are sleeping checks because we find it easier to sleep than they really need to be assessed to find out. I've got another fatal on my hands coming up. I can say yes for a number of reasons. Sleep apnea. Interestingly enough, we talked about it being related to obesity and other disease States, but it's also predominantly higher in men than women until about the age of 50. So postmenopausal women trach it to men very fast and it tends to be the effects of, it tends to be than what we see on men.
Speaker 3: (44:33) Um, is that the weight gain side of what happens is because of the loss of certain hormones in postmenopausal women, especially around respiratory issues, um, we tend to see more in Mali, men especially but also higher percentage. So there is a ethnic link, we're not sure if that's because of body habitus to that. So the shape of the body and the upper airway rather than that, it just isn't working out, whether it's the increased weight, shorter neck, things like that. So yeah, so you mean there is, there should be a definite and I think there is a definite push within modem to check sleep apnea. If you've ever been onto a Mariah, not a pilot in a positive way. So you want me to probably one of the best places to have a sleep person would be on my mind very quickly identify and this is why, you know, sharing this sort of information so that people can directly, because it's with all, you know, all the health stuff that I talk about.
Speaker 3: (45:40) Um, you know, it's being informed. It's knowing that the stuff is out there. It's being aware that there is a, perhaps a problem that needs to be checked as the first line of getting people in the door. You mean if you want to look statistically around research, you know what I mean? You ask three times more likely to have a stroke. If you have sleep pap, you're three times more likely to die. If you have sleep apnea, you're significantly more likely to develop diabetes. If you have sleep or especially what we call uncontrolled diabetes, you're more likely to develop heart problems, more likely to develop respiratory problems. I mean, we're talking significant percentages. If you look at something like what we call label hypertension, so blood pressure that is difficult to control. 80% of patients with difficult to control blood pressure will have some varying levels of sleep.
Speaker 3: (46:29) Disordered breathing. Yup. 55% of cardiac patients, especially at S patients will have a compending or causative sleep disordered breathing. Yep. So the numbers start to stack up more and more and more. We're looking at nighttime physiology as a D as a predictor for daytime, especially around things like blood pressure. 24 hour blood pressure now is something that's becoming standard practice because we've historically treated blood pressure on one off. Yeah. Precious. Yeah. When we're noticing that nocturnal hypertension is a better predictor of cardiovascular mortality and morbidity than daytime blood pressure. Wow. So more and more GPS now are moving towards 24 hour blood pressure. You know, you go to your GP and he asked for it.
Speaker 3: (47:23) Yet there's a few GPS in town who will do 24 hours. Most of the GPS will refer into somewhere like this where we were doing quite a few 24 hour blood pressures and Holter monitoring. Because my area of special interest has always been the impact of sleep on cardiovascular disease or on on cardiac health, which was why I've sort of moved into that sideways, into more cardio-respiratory physiology than I was sleep. So tell us about, a little bit about the clinic that you're in now. Fast based solutions, which is based in your Plymouth. If anybody wants to talk to jazz and come and see you guys. What is it that you do? You showed me a machine before that you can actually wear. Yeah. So basically we moved sideways and I teamed up with two other guys. Mike Maxim is a cardiac physiologist and Alan Thompson, who's a, who's an anesthetic technologist, we looked at what we could provide to primary care as a, as a midway step between primary medical care and secondary medical care.
Speaker 3: (48:26) So we sort of set out to say, wow, we can bride these tests a lot faster probably because we have less restrictive process. Yep. Um, and so we're doing things like Holter monitoring. Holter monitoring is monitoring the heart over 24, 48, seven day period depending on, on what we're looking for and basically monitors cardiac speak to the variation. So it's great for identifying an arrhythmias. This is ASA Fletcher, all of those conditions. Uh, atrial fibrillation is something we're seeing more and more, um, potentially a significantly life threatening condition if not picked up and manage because of the increased risk of stroke and things. Um, so we brought in more and also we're seeing a higher demand from people wearing wearable technology who have started to notice that happy changing, going faster, slightly out to be, yeah, because they're exerting and it causes concern. And part of medicine is to address concerns and fear.
Speaker 3: (49:38) So we do, we do Holter monitoring. So we're using small halted co monitors that allow us to monitor patients in a more free fashion. The old ones used to have lots of wires that restrict things. These things you can run cycle. So they're great for people who are active because that's where they notice the problem. So we can monitor the patient in the situation in which they noticed that problem. It's a lot more effective. The older, bigger ones are cumbersome. So you can't run in them cycles when you can with these. Yep. So it allows us to monitor patients or effectively, and we can even do cardiac ones on there so we can get really tiny patches. So we do those, we do exercise tolerance testing to check for narrowing the vessels. So it's a a test that you run on a treadmill and we'd look at your ECG 12 lead ECG. So quite in depth in ECG while you're doing it. Um, would you ambulatory blood pressure, 24 hour monitoring spiral Metairie cause that forms part of the cardiac paradox. You know what I mean? You talk about cardio respiratory disease cause they both obviously work together and they affect each other. Yeah. So that's what we're doing here. We're doing more direct to patient management.
Speaker 3: (51:03) We get a lot of athletes come through because they're the ones who, who noticed a change. Yeah. And they just want to be reassured that what they're feeling is not a problem, which is fine. Yeah. Optimize performance. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (51:21) Yeah. A lot of, um, uh, I've got a few colleagues, you know, I've been doing, you know, ultra marathon stuff for years and they've got
Speaker 3: (51:29) over-sized carts, um, as a result. Okay. Yeah. That's exercise induced cardiomyopathy. Yeah. Um, it's not very common, but we do see it and some patients who've been exercising to an extremist for long periods, any muscle that you can overwork can become hypertrophic. You know what I mean? That's the whole point of bodybuilding damaging tear muscle to develop definition. And we see that in things like guilt, um, and insomniacs would that, but their cortisol, they're a highly stressed person who can get adrenal atrophy, atrophy, hypertrophy from that because you're constantly kicking out high levels of cortisol. Why they can't sleep and it's all at the wrong time of day. So you mean that's, yeah. Exercise-induced Caribbean cardiac conditions. They're not common, but there's some that we can check for. Yeah. Probably more common amongst people are hanging out with,
Speaker 2: (52:39) you know, it's not common. I don't have it. Um, but I, yeah, my wife's husband used to have that problem. Um, been exercising for just, you know, huge amounts for many, many years. Um, and it's mostly mean isn't it? Then
Speaker 3: (52:53) it is mostly men, mostly men that they're giving. It's like with rugby players in that it'd be interesting to look at their sleep at the same time. Yeah. Because that's why we've moved this way. Cause sleep hearts, lungs all work together for good or a bad reason.
Speaker 2: (53:11) Yeah. I mean this is something that I've been trying to educate people on. You know, the difference between um, you know, like functional medicine and naturopathic medicine and the need for more integrated as it were, more integrated. Look at the whole person and not just, we here in lines near in the hat near you, study the brain and study the kidneys. But having people make can look at the whole sort of system or systems within the body that can really take a more holistic or overlooking approach.
Speaker 3: (53:41) Yeah. Look, I think you mean one of the issues we face in any form of health care is the fragmentation of the system. And that we are so busy these days that predominantly we only look at the field in which we are so much. Whereas you, I mean you sit at the GP level, you've got to try and work out. So you're a policeman if you like, or a police person trying to work out which way you need to go. So it's very difficult when you send someone, let's say for a heart test because you think it's a cardiac issue and the test comes back, not a cardiac issue, but that doesn't help you. All it's told you is what we're trying to develop probably more so here is to look at the patient that's been referred for a heart problem and maybe just looking a bit wider and saying, well look, if it's, if it's not your heart, we should be looking at your sleep or if it's not your sleep, we should be looking at other physiology. Um, and trying to give a more packaged answer to provide the same. Well, Nope, we've done a Holter. It's fine. However they mentioned they should and we noticed that they have.
Speaker 2: (54:52) Yep. Sort of overview a little bit wider. I mean obviously you can't be an expert in the mechanics of the feet at the same time as being doing what you're doing, but you know it,
Speaker 3: (55:05) it's similar. It used to occur I think long time ago when we run much smaller population, people could have more time as a specialist to look at all areas healthcare, but obviously as, as the health system that was invented back then didn't take into account that would be a population of 5 million with significant ability to study more areas of healthcare. So a lot of the people who are in specialties are just overwhelmed with that specialty. And what we'll probably need to be doing more of is having a step that allows people to look more broadly house. And that may include, as you said, homeopathic or alternate providers because my treatment to just purely disease, most practitioners I think health or otherwise would agree with that, that everything should be more patient focused as opposed to outcome.
Speaker 2: (56:03) It's really important to have educational programs like this one because it does take the pressure off the GP knowing everything about everything. If you're aware of what's out there, what could possibly be going on and some of the, you know, sort of just, um, you know, comorbidities that can exist. You know, like I'm doing a brain radio rehabilitation course I'm doing at the moment, um, to help people. And the, the, the interrelatedness from whether it's looking, it's not a good word, but you know what I mean. Um, from brain injury and hormones or adrenal insufficiency and hypertrophy, tourism and thyroids, um, they can all really be affected through brain injury. Um, and then, um, the knock on effects of those and the signs and symptoms and things that I always look at within the course. I'm building out what's the foundational aspects of good health, you know, some of the basics around hydration and nutrition and, um, sleep. Um, and then looking at the next layer to be introduced because there's no use me giving you or giving you, uh, telling you to go and have a hyperbaric session,
Speaker 2: (57:16) which we know has beneficial things for neurological problems when you're eating fish and chips every night. [inaudible] you know, got, I've got some underlying other problems and not exercising and not doing the other pieces of the puzzle. So we need to have, um, an approach that looks at how do I build some foundation with health basics for status as well as the dressing, the actual no problem
Speaker 3: (57:40) that we've got on top of that. Yeah. Yeah. You mean, I think you mean if I can say that it's a key to what we've been talking about is, is, is we take what happens during the day very seriously, but health should be a wider conversation. Human sleep is important. Not every reason you can sleep is insomnia. Yeah. So tablets don't always fix sleep issues. They're a great tool and it can actually be more problematic than the issue. So that's the main thing. It's the snoring is not good. If I could get that point across. Yes. And if, if you don't think you sleep well, which is probably majority of population, just check it out.
Speaker 3: (58:28) I'm sorry, I probably sounded a bit garbled. But sleep is such a few, Gerry, to try and look at sleep in its entirety is, is quite a difficult area. I mean, the simple ones are asleep, happier snoring, tiredness during the day, no matter how old you ask, snoring is not good. Yeah. As a matter whether you're male, female, adult kids, get it checked. And it's a simple case of just talking to your, your practitioner, especially if you've got chronic conditions. Um, and, and, and look at your sleep health as, as importantly as you do your daytime health. That's probably a key.
Speaker 2: (59:07) That's a key takeaway. And I think, you know, go and get yourself a seat. Go and find out if you, if you think you have a problem, uh, if someone, you know, has had a stroke. Um, I mean, I, I, I think it should be standard practice for everybody who's had a injury to get some sort of sleep assessment done at some level. Um, you know, I'm, I'm absolutely convinced my mum would, wouldn't be here if we hadn't done that. And then subsequently also hyperbaric was a key factor in her success. Um, so obviously very passionate about sharing this message today. Um, jeez, just as we wrap up, um, so we've talked, we've given people a couple of takeaways, you know, and if they're snoring through something about it, if you, if you're feeling absolutely in the gutter, uh, and not get a good night's sleep, if you are waking up a number of times, uh, we've seen about sleeping on the side, it's on the left side is, is, is really ideal.
Speaker 2: (59:59) Weight loss is really important. If you're obese, you need to be taking this seriously. Seriously. There's a lot of comorbidities that they come along with having sleep apnea and it can be a bit of a, what do you call it, a circle that leaves a vicious circle that leads into each other. Um, so I think that's some really, really key takeaways. And from the cardiac perspective, I'm very keen to come and check out what, what you guys are doing there. It's a new clinic. Um, and um, relay that back as well. Um, I think, uh, having these new facilities and this new technology available to us is just absolutely awesome. Um, and there's so many great things happening in so many different areas of medicine that we, you know, just sharing a bit of information about it is really key. So if anybody wants to reach out to you at the clinic, we can, they find you guys.
Speaker 3: (01:00:52) Okay. So, yeah, I mean you can do the usual webpage, www fast pace solutions.co. Dot. NZ. Um, you can call it, we do have a phone number, but as you notice that,
Speaker 2: (01:01:06) so I'll put that in the, in the show notes so people can reach out.
Speaker 3: (01:01:10) We're available on Google. Most of the GPS in turn know where we are as do the specialists at the hospital because we're obviously working very closely with the hospital supporting us. So that's really good. Um, with regards to your mom, I just like to say, I mean from a medical perspective, I'm pretty stunned at the way your mom's recovering. I, I, I have to sort of put my hand on my heart as a medical person when I first went through with your eyes. Yeah. I wasn't positive, but it's not purely that the sleep, why does he like that? I've got to acknowledge that what you and your family put in to that was phenomenal. Yeah, it really works. Um, and I think you need to take a little bit more credit with you and your boys, your brothers. It gave you that a reason to come and do my garden, which was awesome. Excellent. I tell him to give me a call anytime. Look. Yeah. So do, do take some credit for that. It wasn't a medical outcome. It was
Speaker 2: (01:02:15) faceted approach. And you know, I always look at the silver linings and things. Geez. And when I, when I went through this horrible situation with mum, there are people like you and others who came out of the woodwork and all gave me their expertise in that area that I was searching and I was hungry for help and information. And that having that open mindedness and being able to research and I continue to do it has now lead to a complete new profession. You know, um, it's interesting where you end up in a, in a book that I hope is gonna, uh, empower other people to fight like crazy. I mean there was, you know, we weren't given no hope from, from the hospital. We would tell her, put her in a rest home and she won't be with us for very long. And um, you know, mum is getting stronger still today.
Speaker 2: (01:03:02) Every day she's improving. Like it's, it's quite, uh, at the age of 78. And you know, she had her a few, you know, underlying issues. Obviously that's why she had the aneurysm and the stroke. Um, and I still met her with her on the nutrition side of things, but, um, on the daily police on there. But now she's, you know, fully got a full driver's license. She's fully independent. The last thing, last week, she's now got, she's now even able to put her own shoes on, which was the last thing because the flexibility of course was really poor. She's now even managed to do that. She's doing weights every day in the garage with me at the moment, cause we can't go to the gym and she's, she's a little miracle. But she, you know, I'm not, uh, I'm the, I'm not the one in the million and mum's not the one in the million. What's, what is different about this case is the relentlessness of keeping going and I'm looking for answers outside of the,
Speaker 3: (01:04:03) you mean again, I think you should take credit cause I think sometimes using the term miracle, it would suggest the divine intervention. This was a determination of farmer that's, uh, to get a positive outcome. It shows us sometimes that we just need to step back and engage more with the wider family unit. Yeah. Do take some credit please. You,
Speaker 2: (01:04:29) it really means a lot coming from you because again, without your expertise and bring in the, in the hyperbaric that that we did as a clinic together, which was difficult times and a hard thing. But I was different to get this therapy out there into the world. And you know, we did that and we have made more people aware and, um, people are still coming to me every day to learn about hyperbaric. So, you know, we did our job there. Um, and it is, it has there, you know, there was beautiful things that have come out of a tragedy and that's the way I see everything in life now is to try and say, well, where's the learning? So even in this covert situation that we're all finding ourselves in and the chaos it is about, um, we cannot learn something out of this. What can I benefit from this? How can society benefit this? I gonna come in and change, but we got to come out stronger. If we have that mindset. Yeah, totally agree. Thank you so much for everything, for helping me all along the way and um, I can't wait to come down and see your new clinic. No, just give me a shout when you're ready. Fantastic.
Speaker 1: (01:05:39) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
07 Sep 2023
Don't Switch My Life Support Off With Aleisha Pienaar
00:38:34
This is a powerful episode, its very raw and rather emotional but I have Aleisha Pienaar to guest who shares her story of her Dad who had a heart attack last year at the tender age of 53 and who was, after being revived, left fighting for his life in ICU.
Aleisha had read my book "Relentless" and had attended one of my speeches where I talked about my Mum and Dad's stories, It was in her time of need that these stories became the catalyst for her to fight hard for her Dad.
The ICU team were convinced her Dad would not wake up from the coma and that if he did, after having been without oxygen for 46 minutes, that his life would be not worth living and that the brain damage would be massive or he would be in a vegetative state.
They were told they must take him off life support. Aleisha reached out and I encouraged her to fight, to be vigilant and not to give up when all others had.
A couple of days after they were told to take him off life support her father incredibly, woke up and although his rehab was hard and rather long her Dad is now back full into life, working, exercising and enjoying his family again.
I share too, my personal story of fighting for my Dad in ICU and how I was blocked at every turn from getting what I needed for him.
Please note these are our very personal, real stories and your experiences may be very different but we want to share openly, the good, the bad and the very ugly of what we experienced and a message of empowerment and a message of not to give up too early. If I had my mum would also not be with us now.
We hope by sharing this, we will help other families faced with similar situations, we also hope that it might initiate change in our system.
I have a dream and that is to get a law change in NZ - to get "The Right to Try" law which is implemented in some states in the USA which basically says that if the doctors have no more answers and someone is dying that you can sign a waiver and try anything reasonable to save that person's life. I wanted that for my Dad, I was wanting intravenous vitamin C and thiamine as per the protocol of this study
But I was blocked due to legal issues and I had to fight for 15 days against the ethics committee - all mind you, while my father was dying and they had nothing more to offer and while they were actively trying to get me to sign off on taking him off life support. I eventually won the right by finding a loophole that allowed Dad's GP to come in and administer it but by then he was in multiple organ failure and could die at any minute and despite that the very first infusion (which was only half of what I wanted) dropped his CRP in half, improved his kidney function and enabled them to take him of Noradrenaline but then we were blocked for 18 hours from getting him the next infusion and again the next infusion and by then - it was way too little and way too late and I was forced to take him off life support and they morphined him in front of my own eyes until he died. Now I am left not knowing if we had been allowed to do it from the very beginning whether his life could have been saved and quite openly I have been left severely traumatized from this experience. Some of the things I witnessed in there were horrifying, I don't and can't share all of what we went through but suffice to say I believe things could have been different had we been given a chance.
BIO Aleisha and her husband, Emil, are based in Dunedin Otepoti, New Zealand. Aleisha is a full-time parent to two little girls, and Emil manages a rest home. They have a heart for people whose voices are not heard, and have invested time in humanitarian work in the Amazon Jungle, as well as local outreaches to those who struggle in their home city. With a strong mission-mindset, Aleisha and Emil are working towards creating more impact in their community. They have faced several medical challenges, including misdiagnosis of a now-irreversible medical condition, two miscarriages, as well as the very near loss of Aleisha's father to a heart attack. As a whanau, their desire is to raise awareness of complications in the medical field that can be addressed if caught early enough, and believe that if enough people are vulnerable and willing enough to share their story, we can see a change in the health care system that will bring a lot more happy endings.
And now a summary of how your book and story helped us save my dad.
Lisa spoke at a conference that Emil and I attended two years ago, sharing the story of how she rehabilitated her mother through determination, self-education, and persistence. In 2022, I found myself facing a similar situation, when my father suffered a catastrophic heart attack. In all the confusion and uncertainty, Lisa's story came to mind, and I knew I needed to get my hands on her book, "Relentless." I devoured the pages, reread my notes from the conference, and what I immediately saw was the importance of standing firm, comparmentalizing emotions, and taking the necessary steps to fight for my dad's right to live.
After a few days, we were asked to consider turning off my father's life support. I wasn't willing to settle for that result, and insisted that he remain on life support until we were able to successfully wake him and assess his brain function. The very next day, my father woke safely from his coma, and responded to instructions the doctors gave him. After a month in ICU, dealing with multiple crises and complications, my father was healthy enough to come home. His brain function is perfect. A few months of physical therapy rebuilt his muscle mass. He is completely himself, and alive, thanks to Lisa sharing her story two years ago. We are so grateful!
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
The Science Of Light - Red Light Therapy, Blocking Blue Light, Circadian Rhythms And More With Daniel Ebbett
01:31:54
In this weeks episode I have the CEO and founder of Block Blue Light to guest Daniel Ebbett. Daniel is an expert on all things light, circadian rhythms, blocking blue light, red light therapy, infrared and near infrared light panels, evolutionary health perspectives on light and much more.
In this episode you will learn:
What the new LED lights are doing to our health vs the old incandescent bulbs,
How drastically we have changed our exposure to especially the blue light spectrum through these lights but also our screens, TV's etc and how this is affecting our sleep, hormones, immune system and the SCN - the master clock in the brain.
We explore Daniels motivation to solve his own problems and how he managed to get on top of his chronic migraines, insomnia and get off the anti- depressants/anti-psychotics he was prescribed for this.
What Red light therapy is, what NM ranges do what, what pulsing does, how Red light therapy differs from infrared saunas.
What ailments are being explored in the research from Alzheimer's and Parkinson to mitochondrial dysfunction to mood and behavior to skin health, joint health and more.
If after listening to this episode you can visit Daniels website here and use code "Lisa" at checkout for 10% off any of their products from house lighting solutions to blue light blocking glasses to Red Light Panel.
BIO
Daniel Ebbett is a visionary leader in the field of blue light and its effects on human health. As the founder and CEO of BlockBlueLight, a premier global brand for blue and artificial light-blocking products, he has made it his mission to promote and educate the science behind modern phenomena such as digital eye strain and poor sleep, and the connection these have with screen overuse.
Through his innovative product range, he champions eye health, sleep quality, and overall well-being. His journey to create BlockBlueLight began with a personal quest to fix his own health issues, including chronic insomnia, eye strain, and migraines, which were caused by his own overuse of electronic devices.
Determined to find a solution, Daniel embarked on extensive research and discovered the impact of blue light on circadian rhythms, which can suppress melatonin secretion and cause sleep issues. He also learned about the dangers of chronic exposure to artificial light during the day, including eye strain, migraines, and even permanent eye damage.
Today, BlockBlueLight is recognized as one of the most trusted and respected international brands in blocking blue light technology. With a passion for helping people live healthier lives, the company aims to make mitigating blue light a mainstream concern and empower individuals with the tools and knowledge they need to thrive in today's digital age.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Ep117: The Stillness Project - The Power of Meditation -Tom Cronin
00:48:24
Tom Cronin in a previous life was a Finance Broker of 26 years experience, he lead a life like that portrayed in the "Wolf of Wall St" movie. Life was full of stress, adrenaline, risk and partying. Burning the candle at both end he began to suffer the consequences as his nervous system broke down and anxiety and depression haunted him. Doctors advised the pharmaceutical fixes for these common ails but he decided to go down the route of meditation and studying eastern philosophies and taking a journey within instead. Studying Vedic meditation in particular.
His life was transformed and he eventually became a teacher of meditation and left the high flying world of the financial broker to start "The Stillness Project" to finally teach this amazing knowledge and wisdom to others but he wasn't content to just run courses and seminars instead Tom took on the riskiest, toughest journey of his life to bring to the world a powerful movie and book which discusses these themes.
It's taken hundreds of people working on the project, tons of investors to finance the project and many times spent wondering how he was going to get through but Tom had a vision, he wanted to change the world for the better through meditation. He believes so powerfully in his message that this book and movie just had to come out and now it is just about to be launched and is set to the take the world by storm.
Here is what he says about the project
CALM YOUR MIND OPEN YOUR HEART SAVE THE PLANET
Our world is in crisis. People are stressed and confused. Humanity is at a crossroads. Yet within each of us we have the capability to bring ourself and our species back from the brink.
The Portal brings to life the stories of six people who’ve overcome adversity and crisis, inspiring the audience to follow in their footsteps and realise the unique potential that all humans have to change our world–from the inside out.
Revealing a centuries-old road map to human transformation, this life-affirming book and documentary take us through the portal behind our minds to what we need to live and thrive today.
About the film "The Portal"
THE FILM
A cinematic experience to inspire us into a new era, THE PORTAL is about how personal transformation can spark a global shift.
Supported by insights from three of the world’s foremost futurists–and a robot–THE PORTAL nails the zeitgeist of a generation, blending personal stories, ancient wisdom, technology, and human potential as it takes the viewer on their own mindfulness journey.
Opening hearts and minds to a new way forward, this life-affirming documentary invites all 7 billion people to reimagine life by entering THE PORTAL.
If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.
All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.
www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group
Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.
Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!
No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.
The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics
You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
23 Mar 2023
Healing Red Light Therapy - With Dr Zulia Frost
00:58:51
In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" we dive again into the exciting world of photobiomodulation, otherwise known as Red Light Therapy with the wonderful Dr Zulia Frost of Recharge Health.
Dr Frost is a medical doctor who experienced a terrible accident and was left facing a life in a wheelchair and debilitating pain.
Pain medications couldn't touch the sides of the suffering she was experiencing so she turned to Red Light Therapy and other modalities to heal herself.
She shares her journey back to health and shares her deep knowledge on this exciting field of research and inparticular her "FLEXBEAM" Red light device - a revolution in delivering Red Light to the body.
What you will learn in this episode:
How the different frequencies of light affect the body in different ways
The benefits of Red Light therapy from lowering inflammation, to collagen production, to immune system modulation, to bone/cartilage formation support, to gut healing, to energy production, to mitochondrial repair, to improved sleep.
You will learn about circadian rhythms and how light plays a pivotal role.
If after listening to Dr Zulia you want to try the FLEXBEAM for yourself and get a whopping discount off the normal retail price of $688 USD to $389 USD then go to Recharge Health and if you hurry and do it in the next 7 days from release of the episode you will save another $40 off making the FLEXBEAM just $349USD.
I am so enamored with this device that I am now incorporating it into my healing modalities in my hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinic in Taranaki.
I personally use it every day and have had major benefits, faster recovery,from training, injury healing, not to mention better sleep and I have used in on Mum after her GI bleed recently to help heal her tum.
Also check out the previous episodes I did on photobiomodulation with Dr Lew Lim if you would like more on Red Light Therapy
Or watch my demonstration video on my youtube channel (don't forget to subscribe while you are there
Bio for Dr Zulia Frost
Dr. Zulia Frost MD: Co-Founder and Head of Clinical
The Healer: Western Medical Doctor integrating Eastern Philosophy
Co-Founder of Recharge Health Ltd driving innovative health technologies
Medical Doctor & Clinical Director of Recharge Health: Creators of FLEXBEAM
Trained in BOTH Western Medical Science and Eastern Philosophy
Renowned Worldwide for Expertise with Integrating Light and Energy Therapy
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Longevity Supplements And Mitochondrial Health With Shawn Wells
01:03:27
This week I interview the world's leading formulator of supplements Shawn Wells AKA The Ingredientologist. Shawn is famous in the biohacking, longevity science and supplement world and holds dozens of patents and has formulated over 1000 products. What this guy doesn't know about biochemistry and longevity isn't worth knowing.
We dive deep today into
Mitochondrial health - why most disease has it's base in mitochondrial dysfunction
Why for optimal performance, health and longevity you need parasympathetic vs sympathetic balance
How to use mitohormesis and hormetic stressors to up your game with out tipping yourself over the edge.
What Allostatic load is and how to increase your resilience and ability to adapt
We dive into some exercise hacks - using resistance bands, eccentric loading, blood flow blocking, exercising to exhaustion, high intensity and more
We talk the latest supplements hitting the world from paraxanthine to understanding the NAD+ system and why it's not just about NMN or NR
Shawns favorite supplements
How to get over chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia.
BIO
Shawn Wells AKA The Ingredientologist Shawn Wells MPH, LDN, RD, CISSN, FISSN is the world's leading nutritional biochemist and expert on Health Optimization. He has formulated over 1000 supplements, food, beverages, and cosmeceuticals and patented 25 novel ingredients and is now known as the Ingredientologist - the scientist of ingredients. Formerly a Chief Clinical Dietitian with over a decade of clinical experience, he has counseled thousands of people on natural health solutions such as keto, paleo, fasting, and supplements. He has also personally overcome various health issues including Epstein-Barr Virus, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, depression, insomnia, obesity, and a pituitary tumor. As a world-renowned thought-leader on mitochondrial health, he has been paid to speak on five different continents. His insights have been prominently featured in documentaries, nationally syndicated radio programs and regularly on morning television. His expertise can help any health-conscious individual to better manage stress and experience higher performance and more energy through utilizing his practical wholistic solutions.
He as appeared on 300+podcasts, 700+Radio Shows, 1,000+ media appearances. You can find shawn at https://shawnwells.com or @shawnwells
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Genetic Testing And Building A Personalised Health Empire with Joe Cohen
00:57:10
In this weeks episode Lisa sits down to talk with Joe Cohen serial entrepreneur, biohacker, genetics expert and founder of Self Decode a genetic testing website, Lab Test Analyzer and SelfHacked.com
They dive deep into DNA and what it can teach us about ourselves and how to use the latest in scientific information about our genes to improve our daily lives, prevent disease and improve our health.
If you are not knowledgeable about your specific genes you are just guessing in everything that affects your health. From your diet to supplements, to exercise to mood and behaviour influences, to gut health to detox abilities to cardiovascular health, even through to medications.
This world is not a "one size fits all" and having such an approach can never help us optimise our lives, our performance and health.
Learn how you can discover what your genes are doing and how to interpret them using the fantastic program and tools Joe and his team of scientists have put together.
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.
**If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
05 Aug 2023
How To Be More Awesome - Despite The Obstacles With Cam Calkoen
01:03:36
In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" I get to interview my good friend and world class motivational speaker, NZ speaker of the year Cam Calkoen.
Now Cam just happens to have cerebral palsy but he has never let this apparent problem hold him back from anything. From climbing Kilimanjaro to being a world class athlete to becoming one of the most well known and loved inspirational speakers of our time (despite a speech impediment) Anything he sets his mind to he achieves and in this interviewing his infectious positivity, energy and mindset will blow you away. You can connect with Cam on https://camcalkoen.com/ or on instagram as @camcalkoen
You will come away from this interview, uplifted and empowered and those excuses you told yourself were limiting factors will fade away when you hear his awesome stories
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Biohacking for a Healthier and Longer Life with Dave Asprey
00:53:15
How can we hack the human body to reach its full potential — and beyond? Right now, we can't stop aging. However, we can slow it down by optimising our health to lead long and fulfilling lives. One day, we may even be able to age backwards. Through biohacking, we can use the latest medical research to our body's advantage.
Dave Asprey, the Father of Biohacking and longevity expert, joins us in this episode. Working with renowned doctors and scientists, Dave has created a solution to innovate and hack our systems to push the limits of what the human body can do. He also shares advice on fasting, longevity, and the measures he takes to live a long and healthy life.
If you want to learn more about biohacking to improve your health and well-being, then this episode is for you! You’ll find out what it takes to live a longer and more fulfilling life.
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful, third-party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
[05:15] Dave’s Journey to Becoming the Father of Biohacking
In his mid-20’s, Dave already exhibited the diseases of aging.
He tried exercising and going on a diet to lose weight. However, Dave didn’t reap the results he wanted.
With his experience in Silicon Valley, Dave started to look at his body's systems as a hacker would.
This change in perspective led to the birth of biohacking. Since then, he has shared his findings with the world through his programs, speaking engagements, products, and books.
[10:37] What Fasting Can Do For You
For ten years, Dave worked with a community of people teaching intermittent fasting as part of the Bulletproof Diet.
Autophagy is when the body cleans out old cells and old proteins.
You don't get the full effects of autophagy if you eat three meals a day or consume carbohydrates and sugars.
There are different benefits to having periods where you go without eating food.
Fasting is not about suffering; it’s about knowing how not to be hungry as you fast.
[14:51] Biohacking Tips on Fasting
Have black coffee in the morning. This drink amplifies your body's ability to make ketones.
You can also choose to add grass-fed butter and MCT oil. The combination gives you more hunger suppressants.
Finally, you can add prebiotic fibre to your black coffee. It’s a fibre that doesn’t raise your insulin and blood sugar levels.
As long as you don’t have any protein and carbs that raise insulin, your body remains in a fasted state.
[18:32] Fasting From All Sorts of Things
Fasting from oxygen, which is called ‘breathwork’, is a big part of biohacking.
We could choose to go without the things that are causing the biological effects we don’t want.
Fasting is about what you're trying to achieve, like getting rid of harmful proteins in your body to bring in good nutrients.
[20:07] How to Deal with LPS
When a living organism feels threatened, they react in three ways: fear, food, and fertility. You either run away, eat everything, or ensure the survival of your species.
Fasting threatens your gut bacteria. In response to fasting, they secrete toxins called lipopolysaccharides (LPS) to keep the other bacteria from competing.
In response, your liver will ask for sugar to oxidise the LPS.
Fasting can make your gut bacteria unhappy and cause cravings. Toxin binders like activated charcoal work incredibly well to counteract this effect.
According to Dave, activated charcoals induces a 15% life extension in rats who take it regularly.
[23:30] On Supplements to Take When Fasting
Your fat stores toxins. If you’re losing weight, you’re gaining toxins unless you bind them.
Advanced supplements include senolytics and spermidine.
Spermidine was not readily available before; it used to be a very expensive research chemical.
Dave instead took probiotics from Japan that helped his body make spermidine.
A chapter in Fast This Way has a list of safe, effective supplements to use during a fast.
[26:15] Fasting is Like Exercising
While fasting, you need a certain amount of oxidative stress.
If you were to remove all the stressors during a fast, you won't get the benefits of fasting.
[28:41] The Paradigm Shift in Our Medical System
Dave traces back the problem to when the FTC allowed pharmaceutical companies to advertise in the US.
We're good at recognising short-term patterns but terrible at seeing long term consequences.
Our reactions to COVID are exaggerated. In reality, the actual risk is much lower.
However, pharmaceutical companies amplify the risk because they make money from governments through the virus.
We need to take the pharmaceutical companies away from the doctors.
[34:57] Being Vi-Curious
Dave was not opposed to vaccines before the pandemic. He identifies himself as vi-curious, or vaccine industry curious.
In Superhuman, Dave writes about the four big killers. He notes that he’s looking forward to getting well-tested vaccines for these diseases.
Having this conversation about being preventative and optimising your health is necessary to understand how our biology works.
There are some unknown risks to both the vaccines and the virus.
Being vi-curious means you’re in the middle of those who are vaccine-promiscuous and anti-vaxxers. It’s where 90% of the people are.
[40:35] Doing Something We Don’t Want to Do
We’re stiff-armed into doing things we don’t necessarily want to do.
You don’t have to react with anxiety or fear. Instead, you can react with intelligence, logic, and thought.
We have a long history of not having as much control as we want.
Medical freedom is one of the most precious rights. It means you have a right to decide what you put into your body.
[42:00] Dave’s Take on Longevity
Dave believes that he can live until he’s 180.
If we don't destroy the planet, we can do 50% better than today because of all the constant advancements in technology and research.
We are cracking the core biology behind aging and our ability to replenish our systems.
Sooner or later, technology that was once expensive will be more readily available.
Dave aims to show the effectiveness of these technologies. By increasing demand and supply, prices will drop.
[47:11] Individuals Over 60 Tend to Be Happier
When we're young, we worry about what everyone else is thinking about us.
Then, when we’re middle-aged, we’re more concerned about what we think of others.
However, when we're old, we realise people don't think about us as much. People who have enough energy and don't have medical problems at this age tend to be much happier.
Dave hopes that we can go back to awake and powerful elders.
The goal of the anti-aging community is to have people whose brains work like young people but have the wisdom of age.
[49:15] How Dave Asprey Creates an Impact
For five years, Dave taught at the University of California and worked at the company that held Google’s first servers.
Biology behaves very much like how the internet does. If you can hack a system, that means you can hack the human body.
These experiences prepared Dave to start the biohacking movement.
If what you’re teaching is efficient and you keep sharing it, you can build a movement of your own.
Doing so takes a lot of time and energy, so it has to be worth it. In Dave’s case, it is.
7 Powerful Quotes
‘Fasting isn't a lack of energy going into the body. Fasting is going without. And the hallmarks of fasting are insulin doesn't go up. And your levels of something called mTOR don't go up.’
'Maybe you're in the middle. In fact, I will tell you right now, 90% of people are in the middle. And it's the angry people who yell at the extreme anti-vax and the extreme vaccine promiscuous side — they're bullies.'
‘You're already stiff-armed into doing all sorts of stuff you don't want to do it. But you don't have to react with anxiety or fear. You can react with intelligence, and logic, and thought.’
‘Medical freedom is one of the most precious rights. That means you have a right to choose what you put into your body and what you don't put in your body from a food perspective, from a supplements perspective, and from a pharmaceutical perspective.’
‘We are cracking the core biology behind aging and our ability to replenish and repair and rejuvenate our systems. So it's your job: age a little bit less quickly, prepare yourself a little bit better. Every year, the technology gets better and better.’
‘People who have enough energy and don't have medical problems as they age tend to be much happier because they've learned the skill of being happy. It turns out we can teach our younger people that, and the way we've always done that is through coming-of-age rituals.’
‘The more successful you are, the more the crazy 5% sociopaths and psychopaths yell and scream and complain online.’
About Dave
Dave Aspreyis an entrepreneur, author, host of Bulletproof Radio, and founder of Bulletproof. He is widely known as the Father of Biohacking. Over the last 20 years, Dave has worked with numerous medical and scientific experts to uncover and develop innovative methods to push the potentials of the human body. Through this, he has created the Bulletproof Diet and innovated Bulletproof Coffee and other wellness products.
Dave has also written extensively on his experiences with biohacking technologies and research. He’s a four-time New York Times best-selling author. His mission is to empower individuals worldwide on the techniques of biohacking to lead long and fulfilling lives.
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The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
09 Dec 2021
Hormone Imbalance Signs and How Functional Gynecology Addresses Them with Dr Tabatha Barber
01:05:17
Your hormones play a big role in how your body functions. And so, hormone imbalance signs can cause health issues. Many women live hectic lives and forget to adequately take care of themselves, leading to imbalances in their estrogen levels. Unfortunately, conventional medicine seems to focus on invasive solutions without addressing the root causes of hormonal imbalance. Functional gynecology, which integrates a holistic, whole-body approach to treatment, can help women find effective solutions for their well-being.
In this episode, Dr Tabatha Barber talks about how functional gynecology works to help patients with estrogen dominance and shares hormone imbalance signs common among women. She also discusses the importance of self-care and why women often prioritise others over themselves. Finally, she talks about the current systemic issues that plague the field of medicine. Through functional gynecology, Dr Tabatha believes that patients can overcome these challenges and live truly healthy lives.
Tune in to the full episode if you want to learn more about functional gynecology and hormonal health for women!
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Find out how estrogen is metabolised by the different organs in your body.
Learn more about how using medications can cause unwanted side effects and why women need more holistic alternatives.
Discover how functional gynecology adopts a natural approach to women’s healthcare.
Resources
Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming apatron!
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
Dr Tabatha got into a lot of trouble during her teenage years, which resulted in her dropping out of high school and getting pregnant.
Her experience as a pregnant teenager made her realise the daily struggles of girls like her.
She learned the importance of living an authentic life in the pursuit of fulfilment. Dr Tabatha thus commits to enabling similar opportunities for other women.
She now practices a functional approach in medicine. This allows her to take care of patients without surgical interventions.
[08:56] Working Hard to be a Doctor
Dr Tabatha turned to her faith in her times of struggle. She also drew inspiration from her parents’ work ethic.
By envisioning how she wanted to be as a person, she told herself that it was all worth it.
As a female physician, she has to work twice as hard as her male counterparts. But she realised that abusing her body was breaking her.
So, Dr Tabatha wants to help women understand that their purpose, goals and dreams change as they grow.
To be happy, they have to be authentic to themselves and what they want out of their lives.
[17:21] The Importance of Self-Care for Women
The pressures of modern life push women to sacrifice their personal well-being in pursuit of success.
This line of thinking makes women lose confidence when it comes to finding solutions for their own problems. They opt to persist despite their suffering.
Many women think that self-care is selfish and indulgent. So, they don't give it as much importance as it deserves.
In truth, taking care of yourself means that you're better able to take care of others. Self-care is essential if you want to help your loved ones.
No one else will put you first, so make sure to take care of yourself first. In the same way, we should support each other in prioritising and taking care of ourselves.
[22:10] Female Hormonal Health
Most advice on hormonal health focuses on how to avoid the discomfort that comes from periods.
Unfortunately, many women are taught to treat these processes as annoyances that need to be suppressed.
All women need to be aware of their metabolism and their energy requirements to stay at peak health.
Making the effort to learn about your hormones and hormone imbalance signs can help you better understand your specific health needs as a woman.
[24:27] Birth Control Pills
Hormone pills seem to fix hormone imbalance signs, but they do so by interrupting the chemical signals between your brain and ovaries.
Issues that your birth control pills suppress tend to resurface once you stop taking them.
Without addressing the root causes of hormone imbalance signs, pills do not offer lasting resolutions for this problem.
Birth control pills are also linked to an increased risk of autoimmune diseases, leaky gut, and breast cancer.
[29:53] Hormone Imbalance Signs
Hormonal imbalance has acute and long-term effects. Therefore, it’s important to have them managed by a professional.
We make three forms of estrogen, with several organs involved in the processing and eventual elimination of this hormone.
Aging also impacts the hormone imbalance by reducing egg production and progesterone release.
Dr Tabatha discusses further details of more causes and hormone imbalance signs that lead to abnormal accumulation and how you can address them with alternative medicine in the full episode.
[39:42] Maintaining Hormonal Balance
Traditional gynecologists tend to rely on surgery and birth control pills as their go-to treatment options.
A functional approach can target the various root causes of hormone imbalance signs.
Treatments can include increasing fibre intake, reducing alcohol consumption, and taking steps to protect your gut microbiome.
[45:23] The Dangers of Exposure to Increased Level of Estrogen
As we increase the use of birth control pills, the waste we produce also causes water pollution.
Plastics in our environment also act asxenoestrogens or fake estrogens.
Because these pollutants exist in our water supply, the estrogen levels of men are increasing too.
There’s also a noticeable change in children’s bodies compared to a few decades ago.
[49:21] Fighting the System
The traditional system of medicine is strenuous and draining for both doctors and patients. Functional medicine allows both doctors and patients to gain better healthcare.
However, patients should not vent their frustrations on their doctors, as they are also victims of a broken system.
We need to keep advocating for a more holistic approach to medicine, especially in gynecology.
[54:00] Dr Tabatha's Struggles
Dr Tabatha was repeatedly told that her health conditions required increasingly invasive medical intervention.
She had thyroid issues during young adulthood, and doctors kept recommending her the same medicine. Her symptoms only improved when she fixed her diet.
The same patterns of recommending surgery occurred when she had a back injury during exercise and developed a ruptured disc.
In reality, functional medicine has provided an alternative that kept her healthy all these years.
7 Powerful Quotes
‘As a female physician, you have to do double the amount to prove your worth than a male does.’
‘Why aren’t they happy? It’s because they really aren’t being true and authentic to themselves and what they want out of their life.’
‘Self-care is selfless, and it’s necessary.’
‘Periods should not be miserable. Periods should be a mild inconvenience. And we should know why we’re feeling the different weeks and why.’
“[Birth control pills] shut down the communication between your brain and your ovaries… and gives you a fake period.’
‘Men do not get their body parts removed the way women do.’
‘Our bodies were created to heal. You need to remove the impedance. You need to support, and replace, and replenish. And things will go back into balance.’
‘You have to have time to rejuvenate, and restore, and heal all the damage you’ve done during the day.’
About Dr Tabatha
Dr Tabatha Barberis a triple board-certified OB/GYN and an advocate for functional gynecology, which introduces a holistic and multidisciplinary approach to women's health. She hosts The Functional Gynecologist Podcast, where she helps women use natural choices on diet, lifestyle, and environment to gain control over their health.
Dr Tabatha struggled with health and personal problems during her youth, including pregnancy at age 17. After delivering her baby, she encountered problems with her thyroid and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis. She was able to understand her condition after completing medical school. Her experiences resolved her to help other women with similar struggles.
Her hectic schedule as a physician made her adopt an unhealthy lifestyle, eventually leading to more health problems. What seemed like a hamstring injury turned out to be a herniated disc in her spine. After an initial surgery to correct her condition, orthopedics said that her condition will only worsen and that she would need more surgery in the future.
Determined to find another approach to healing, Dr Tabatha focused on learning as much as possible on functional medicine. She now dedicates herself to helping women learn how to overhaul their lives through self-care and healthy habits.
Learn more about functional gynecology at Dr Tabatha’swebsite.
Enjoyed This Podcast?
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**The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional**
21 Apr 2023
Natural approaches for supporting hormone balance with Jennifer Moore
00:53:53
In this weeks episode Jennifer Moore of Meno-me.co.nz speaks to us about peri menopause/menopause and hormone health.
Continuing on our series on "Pushing the Limits" around hormones, DUTCH Testing, Hormone Replacement Therapy and more and today we discuss alternative options for those not wanting to do HRT but who want to get the benefits supplements that can support you through this critical time of life.
If you are struggling with hormone issues then this is the episode for you. If you want to prepare for what menopause might bring then this is also for you
What you will learn:
Natural menopause supplements and support
How to keep your hair looking great as your hormones change
What EstroG-100™, is - a patented formulation of three herbal extracts that have been used for hundreds of years. It has been the subject of three scientific studies on menopause. It naturally supports the body's natural response to hormonal changes including normal body temperature, mood, healthy joints, energy levels, and restful sleep.
The ingredient Cynanchum are climbing vines, Phlomis are sage-like herbs and Angelica is used as a food, herbal remedy and flavour. These herbs have been used for hundreds of years as culinary herbs in Korea and have a long history of use Phlomis umbrosa is wild harvested, while Cynanchum wilfordii and Angelica gigas nakai are cultivated.
How to support your lifestyle through peri menopause and menopause
How manage your moods and the symptoms of menopause like those nasty night sweats, brain fog, irritability (dare I say anger) and more
Be sure to check out Jennifer's own podcast "Women on Fire" where Lisa is also to guest as well as checking out what Jennifer and the team at Meno-me do at
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
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PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
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Understanding Stress for Better Stress Management with Neil Wagstaff
00:46:56
In this fast-paced world, it seems the only way to move forward is to push harder and harder. But where is this relentless rat’s race taking us? Never has there been a higher prevalence of chronic disease and mental health disorders globally. If we want to change this dynamic, we must understand that rest, recovery and effective stress management are equally important in driving results.
Neil Wagstaff joins me in this episode where he explains the science behind stress. He outlines the various stages in the stress curve to help you identify where you might be in the spectrum. We also talk about the importance of awareness. With a better understanding of stress, it’s possible to make small lifestyle changes to reduce its toll on you and take greater ownership of your health.
Don’t miss this episode if you want to develop your resilience and learn effective stress management!
If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Understand stress better by learning about its symptoms.
What is homeostasis, and what are the stages of stress?
Discover the importance of awareness in stress management.
Episode Highlights
[03:15] Defining Stress
Stress is a normal part of life. It can be good if it’s used in the right amount.
Picture stress as a bucket. When the bucket is filled in too quickly, it can overflow.
With proper balance, stress can be managed, and you can avoid the bucket from tipping over.
The Goldilocks Principle shows that the amount of load or stress we put on our body should be well-balanced to get a positive result out of it.
Stress should be balanced with recovery to get optimal results.
[11:59] Symptoms of Stress
Feelings of depression, anxiety and anger start to rise in times of distress.
A weak immune system reflects stress in your body.
Stress happens when there is a lack of balance between work and recovery, when there is a lack of resilience.
Take the time out, time to reflect and to show gratitude so you can move forward.
[20:13] Health and Homeostasis
The goal is to maintain homeostasis, when the body is well-balanced and stable.
The alarm stage usually comes after experiencing homeostasis, especially when you’re anticipating something new or big in your life.
This can bring about an arousal of emotions, which can be overthrown using stress management techniques.
Being always on the go can lead to chronic mental health problems like anxiety and depression.
The key to maintaining homeostasis is giving yourself time to recover.
[24:16] The Resistance Stage of Stress
After the alarm stage comes the resistance stage, where you actually put stress on your body. It is when you can feel really stuck.
This stage can result in a chronic state of exhaustion.
This puts you in the position to address the stressors by changing habits, perceptions and behaviours to bring back homeostasis.
[26:41] The Exhaustion Stage of Stress
This stage happens when your stress peaks and things get out of control.
We want to prevent reaching this stage as much as possible.
Stress can activate the body’s fight or flight response, which can have a negative spiral effect on the body, both physically and mentally.
It is crucial to bring awareness to your behaviour and decisions when in the exhaustion stage to avoid spiraling down further.
[31:41] On Awareness
Increasing our awareness around stress and personal wellness has made a big difference on the things we do.
Individuals with lower awareness tend to externalise their problems and not have control of their lives.
The greater your awareness, the more likely you are able to take ownership of your problems and control your mood, health and how you look at the world.
Awareness is also vital for teams. It allows you to help your teammates and prevent things from spiraling out of control.
It starts with being aware, but you don’t have to tackle your problems all at once. There is no instant fix, not even coaching.
[36:16] 7 Questions to Increase Awareness
What is the biggest stress you have at the moment, and how is it expressing in your body?
What normally causes stress for your body?
How is stress showing up — does it come in certain environments?
When is stress showing up?
What can be done immediately to alleviate the feeling and support your biology?
What can you do to manage your stress response better?
Finally, what are the long-term strategies you can implement to lower your residual stress?
[42:36] Stress Management: Start with the Small Things
Look after your stress like you look out for your body.
Do any mobility work (or breathing work) that is right for your biology.
Spend time with nature.
Perform habit stacking or the art of doing simple things to get complex things done every day.
Start doing things in practice to increase your awareness.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘...the resilience is found in rest. But society will say to us that resilience is found in pushing harder, pushing, doing more, doing more and doing more, but it's found in rest’.
‘So this is why it’s important to remember, in daily life and business, you need the recovery aspect in there. It should be like a training program’.
‘Finding joy in something is the real key to my mental balance. I’m not being selfish when I take half an hour to paint a picture. I’m not being selfish — I’m being sensible, and I’m looking after my own health, and therefore, the health of my loved ones’.
‘Sometimes the answer isn’t actually just addressing what’s under your nose and addressing your work. It could be addressing your food, your movement, how you’re looking after your mind and all those things. And then change your perception of work totally so you can manage it a whole lot more effectively’.
‘It's really important for corporate teams or sports teams to start recognising signs and others. And if you are more aware than the other person, then you can help them more… so that you can actually prevent things from spiraling out of control’.
‘If you find yourself blaming everybody else for the situation, then you're probably not very aware of things that are going on because you're just externalising. If you're moaning a lot… Then you might want to have a look at the way that you're actually processing things and understanding things and take more ownership’.
‘You don't have to tackle the whole thing at once. But it's being more aware. Am I a person who goes through life blaming everybody else, blaming the system, blaming that? Or am I someone who does something about it, takes ownership, starts to make a change in [my] own life’?
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati. Brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Welcome back to Pushing the Limits this week everyone. I hope you're having a fantastic December. Can't believe we're already here, Christmas is just around the corner.
I have an interview today with Neil Wagstaff. He's a repeat offender on this show. And I love having my business partner and my coach, exercise, science men, Neil Wagstaff with me. And we're going to be talking resilience and stress, how to control stress, how to understand what it's doing to your body, and some of the techniques and things that you can do to cope with stress. And I really hope you get benefit from this episode.
It's an ongoing theme. We have lots of stress in our lives generally. We live in stressful environments, we've got families and financials and sicknesses and illnesses, and all sorts of things that we have to deal with on a daily basis. So here's some really good advice and tips around managing stress and being resilient.
Just before we head over to the show, please give the show a rating and review if you enjoy it. And make sure you share it with your friends and family. And if you're looking for stocking fellows, make sure you head over to my shop on lisatamati.com, my website. You can check out my fierce jewelry collection, there you can check out my books.
And of course, if you are having trouble with any sort of health issues, or you've got a big goal, or you want to deal with some mindset issues, I am taking on a very, very small number. I've pretty much meet the quota. But I've got a couple more spots left. If you want to work one on one with me reach out tolisa@lisatamati.com. And I can send you information about my health optimization coaching.
Okay, now over to the show with Neil Wagstaff.
Lisa:Well, hi everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits this week. Today I have my wingman Neil Wagstaff, with us again. My gosh, you're coming on the show a lot, now, Neil.
Neil Wagstaff:Like you make me feel really popular, man. I love it.
Lisa:It's really good to have you here because you just got so much knowledge. And it's just fantastic being able to share all your knowledge with everyone out in podcast land. So if you're a new listener to the show, thanks for dropping by. And if you're returning listener, thanks very much for coming back again and please don't forget to give us a rating and review. We love hearing from you guys and you reaching out.
Now today, the subject is stress and how it affects your body and health. A big topic for so many people, especially given 2020, it's been a disastrous year on many, many fronts for many, many people. Certainly been the worst one of my life. So we're going to talk about how to deal with stress, how to recognize the signs and symptoms of when you're getting overstressed, how to just to manage your physiology so that you can get the best out of your life without tipping yourself over the edge. So Niel, over to you. More to say what’s it all about.
Neil:Firstly, it is a normal part of life, it is definitely a normal part of life. And it can be good. It's often given a very negative, negative sort of press and people see it as a negative thing. It can be that definitely, but it's also something we need in our daily life. And something we want—you and I personally we thrive off it and love having things to do, we love being busy and love getting things done. So that's good.
For some of the good stresses that people be aware of when just understanding they're putting them into that stress category is these things will have an impact on our body and can put load on it. And therefore they're putting load on it they can cause inflammation and effectively cause stress of some sort. So exercise is a stress and it's a very good stress if it's used in the right amount. Okay? It can also be bad stress.
Lisa:Dosage.
Neil:Yes, exactly the right dosage. Food can be a stress and it puts a load on our body. Again, use well, it's a good one. Work, again, manage well with good balance is a great stress to have and we all should enjoy doing it. Mental challenge can be a good stress. You like being pushed to our limits, you're definitely a great example of someone who loves pushing the limits, Lisa.
Lisa:Yes, mentally and physically.
Neil:So there are good things in that. New environments, new experiences. They're all great stresses that you can put on your body. General ones on the bad list would be things like poor sleep, and lack of exercise, social stress, prolonged challenge—the stuff that goes on for too long without rest and recovery. And then significant physical or mental trauma as well.
Now if you manage those two buckets. We often talk about the bucket of stress and you have heard us discuss that on previous podcasts as well. But these things, if they're thrown in the bucket, and the bucket gets too full too quickly, then some things on the good list can actually be the things that actually cause the overflow and cause too much stress. But manage well, manage those lists well, and you're going to be in a position that is part of normal life, it should be good. Stress needs to be there. The key thing is that you've got balance with it. And that's what we'll go on to talk about a little bit more, a little bit more today.
Lisa:Yes, so I think things like exercise people don't often recognize as a stress and it can be added into that same bucket. And we have talked about that principle before on the show, where, that can be the stressor that tips it over, if you've already got a very full bucket. So even though you think, ‘Oh, doing my training today is a good thing’. It is, if your body's ready for it, for example. And if you've had a lack of sleep and lack of social interactions and your food was crappy, then that extra stress of exercise, or doing it too hard on that day might not be a good thing. So it's about balancing it. And it's about recognising when your body is in a state of excessive stress.
So now we're going to talk about the Goldilocks principle. And I love the Goldilocks principle, it's pretty much a metaphor for everything in life. The more I study biology and chemistry, the more I start to understand that everything in the entire world is all about the Goldilocks principle. Not too hot, not too cold, not too much, not too little. Just getting it right. So how do we get it right, and what is the Goldilocks principle in regards to stress, Neil?
Neil:What you said, is so true, Lisa. It is so appropriate to so many aspects of life, it really is. One of the examples we often use is quite an easy way to look at it, it is looking from a training perspective, and especially from my background, that's what I understand well.
So when someone goes through a training program, or an exercise program, goes through rigorous exercise classes, you don't want to create a training stimulus in the body. You want to create a effect on the body under load. So you're going to cause some stress, it's going to break it down, so you'll get a response. And it comes up after a period of time and it could be sort of that four or six week period. We then start to get some great results. Otherwise what’s known as super compensation, where your body compensates and responds really well.
Now the reason it does that is because you've put the right load on it. So you put the right amount of stress from an exercise point of view, therefore, you're going to get the nice result at the other side. Now if we do put too much—or sorry—too little stimulus on the body, then the result is going to be smaller, and we won't have such a great result at the other side and four to six weeks time. If we put too much stimulus on, which we see a lot of people doing in our work, and not enough recovery, and you don't get any results at all.
Now stress works in a similar way. And what we're looking at in this example is we want to put stress as in the exercise load on a body to get the result. But in our daily life, should be a similar process. The amount of load we put on our body each day should be enough that we get a great result at the other end.
And we had a, Lisa and I were away doing a court presentation about a week or so ago. And we had a great discussion there with one of the one of the team we're working with. And he gave the example of in sport like I've just given, you've got the chance to recover. Now in business and daily life, you don't often get the chance to recover. So you have these periods which becomes longer and longer and longer, where you're putting yourself under excessive load to get a result. But you missed that super compensation because the amount of load you're putting on means there's no recovery and that means that the result you get it, but you get it it's such a hopper that after a long period of time you end up burning out, and that's what we want to avoid. So this is why it's important to remember there in daily life and business you need the recovery aspect in there, it should be like a training program.
Lisa:And there was a really good example last week. High end executives really pushing the limits on a business point of view and in doing that day in day out, year in, year out and leading—but leading to problems. And this is a societal problem where we all under the pump all the time, or a lot of us are. And that does lead and it's trying to manage your—the physiology because our physiology is still old. And the fact that it’s ancient, our DNA hasn't necessarily evolved to our current lifestyle and so trying to manage this as best we can to get the best results.
Now talk about super compensation, I did a really hard CrossFit workout yesterday, and I've got very sore ass cheeks today. So I'm not going to go and smash myself again today, and that because I want that super compensation. The fact that I have sore muscles, sore glutes, and sore legs means and I caused a training stimulus. So right now my body is weaker and I need to give it a bit of recovery, and recovery might mean doing a bit of yoga today and a gentle walk and maybe a light jog. But it doesn't mean going and smashing myself again today because that will likely lead to a negative adaptation. And I want to get the most out of that painful workout yesterday. So I know to back off a little bit today.
And that's what hold training plans are about—getting that combination right and that periodisation right for your particular goal. And that's what we do with Running Hot, with all our athletes that we're training is periodisation. So that they peak at the right time, and they get the most super compensation and not the negative adaptations that can happen when you start to go into that overtraining. And it's quite counterintuitive, isn't it? Because as athletes, you just want to go hard and go hard again the next day and then go home. You've had a sleep, you've had some food, you should be good to go again. But you do need that recovery time, both on a 24 hour hourly basis, as on a monthly basis, as on a yearly basis. So we're going to talk a little bit about that as we go through the session. These are micro and macro cycles we're talking about. So let's talk a little bit about this and what it is to get this just right? And how important the accumulation of stress can lead to your downfall? And why resilience is really found in race?
So what are some of the symptoms for somebody, either as an athlete, or as a corporate athlete, or someone who's got three kids and two day jobs, what are some of the signs that that stress is starting to take a toll on their physiology and on their psychology as well?
Neil:For mental health point of view, we've got people on too much load and too much stress is where depression will start to come in—anxiety, anger. And those feelings, the risk of chronic disease goes through the roof that just jumps up, jumps up massively and puts more load on the body, and then the immune system just starts to drop as well because that additional load, there's no rest on the body.
On the flip side, if you've got the balance just right. So we're talking about that super compensation, you're getting the balance, right, so you're getting that result, then you're going to feel calm, you're going to feel more proactive. There'd be lots of growth and recovery. And from a health point of view, your health is optimised, and your immune system’s strong.
Now, a lot of people we're speaking to in the trap of going hard, going hard, going hard, it’s going hard. And then we get those feelings of anxiety, anger, depression, and more disease issues. As we work through people's blood with them, we're seeing higher risk of disease when we're looking at bloods now than what we have done in the past, which has a bigger impact, obviously, on immune system and future chronic disease as well.
So taking in those and listening, you will have found those times in life where you felt that productivity was good, you felt calm, there was good growth, and you feel on point. I guarantee you, when you look at those times, you'd have had good balance, and you've had enough rest and recovery in the day, in the week, the month, the year. It means that you're getting those benefits you should from a stress management point of view. And some of you listening as well will have experienced the others and most of us—Lisa and I have at some different points in life, where you experienced the anxiety, the anger, because you've got the balance wrong. And that's an easy—easyis the wrong word to use. But once you understand that, it is an easy fix to make.It's just understanding the how to make the fix so you get the resilience.
And as you said earlier in the exercise example, it's counterintuitive because the resilience is found in rest. But society will say to us that resilience is found in pushing harder, in doing more, doing more and doing more, but it's found in rest. And that's where a lot of the happy feelings and emotions are found as well, by taking time out, time to reflect time to show gratitude, and to allow you to move forward. And at the end of the day it's in—you've used this example recently as well, if you haven't been healthy.
Lisa:You got nothing. You have zero.
Neil:Exactly. So you need it.
Lisa:Yes, and I think like that depression, anxiety and anger part of the puzzle. So these are all your neurotransmitters that are at play here. So your dopamine, your GABA, your serotonin, your adrenaline, your cortisol, all of these things that are actual chemical things in your body causing you to feel a certain way.
So when you see yourself—and I mean this is definitely talking to me here. When I see myself getting irritable and angry and snapping and being anxious about the future, then I know, “Hang on.” And Neil will say to me, or my husband will say to me, ‘Hey, you're getting out of control again’. And I’m like, ‘Well, okay, I need to take more time out’. And just sometimes like taking a couple of hours out for yourself is not being selfish. And I really, really struggle with this one because it's for me, it's like a guilt, ‘But I should be doing this’, and ‘I should be doing that’. And I've got a billion things on my to do list. And so I hear the people when they say, ‘But I haven't got time for that’. It's like, yes, but do you want to be an asshole to your friends and family?
Like, if we get down to it, that's what happens, and depressed and miserable and losing the joy of life. When you don't have enough GABA, which is one of your neurotransmitters, and you don't have enough serotonin in your body, that's what you're going to feel. You're going to have lose the love for life, you're going to lose the love for your passions, that your hobbies, you're going to like—not be interested in them anymore, you're not going to have that dopamine hit where you want to get up and go and you're motivated to drive towards something.
So when you feel that those neurotransmitters are off, by just backing off the accelerator pedal, having some time out to do some health and self care, like I love getting into a sauna, or going for a walk, or doing some stretching, or doing some meditation, or breath work for me is huge. All these things help me manage my emotional state and help my body recover. And we often think that, ‘Ugh, I've just got to get over it. And I'll have a good sleep tonight, and I'll be good’. But if you're not giving your body, the right ingredients, the right nutrients, the right time out and play, then you're not going to have the right combination of neurotransmitters running around in your body. And no matter how much willpower you have, you're probably not going to have a positive outlook on life. And it's something I've really had to learn the hard way.
Now, after going through a very stressful few months that I've been through with losing my Dad, I've had to prioritize just doing something I love. And for me that might be—I'm into painting at the moment, following my dad's footsteps, and that gives me joy. And finding joy in something is a real key to my mental balance. I'm not being selfish when I take half an hour to paint a picture. I'm not being selfish. I'm being sensible, and I'm looking after my own health and therefore the health of my loved ones. And that does have an effect on our people around us. And none of us want to be that horrible person that's grumpy all the time. It's not much fun. So.
Neil:Definitely, it’s a great, great example. And thing as well, as people are listening is understanding that what is worked for you won't necessarily work for everyone and vice versa. So it's finding your thing, and your rest and relaxation, self care, it's going to be different for each person. And if you try things, and they're not working for you, resonate with you, then try something else. And once you find your sweet spot, like you described the painting, then you will find those feelings. So, I wouldn't necessarily get it from painting, just because I can't paint.
Lisa:Neither can I.
Neil:There’s other things I definitely get it from. So it’s understanding that you find what's your sweet spot, and what's going to have that impact on your body. Once you understand that, then it becomes a lot easier to do.
Lisa:And don't think you're being selfish because you're doing it. That's the real key message and trying to prioritize us because it's like where the corporate executives last week. You have to perform. Yes, but underpinning your performance is health. So if you don't have health, it shouldn't be something that you optionally do on the side, it’s one of the things you get around to, it underpins everything.
So this is part of your health, regime, your practice. And if you see health and looking after yourself, and that's nutrition, that's fitness, that’s all of those things. If you see that as the foundation on which to build your house, that's a different approach, than to seeing it as a pillar on the side that you want to get around to, that you never do get around to.
For Neil and I, it is fundamental. It is our priority. It is also our business in our case. And we can't be good examples to you guys if we're not performing the best that we can and looking after ourselves. And just reprioritising—having those conversations in your own head is about, ‘it's not being selfish, this is being sensible’.
So now, I'm going to talk a little bit about the stress curves and the phases that you go through from good health and homeostasis, right through the exhaustion stage. Neil, can you explain this concept a little bit?
Neil:Yes, so we look at different stages as we go through the stress curve. So if we're looking at homeostasis, as you saying good health, this is when the body's in balance, and it's stable and hasn't been pushed, there's no stress on it. And we've got in a calm, there's nothing that changes, changing the environment. So that'd be a nice place to be all the time. But most of us would get bored quite quickly, and would generally get anything done. So good space to be for your body but that's the sweet spot. So we want to spend some time in that. And we want to spend ideally some time in that each day, each week, each month, each year, so we manage those peaks and troughs.
The alarm stage, which comes next is where we start thinking, readying ourselves for the future. So this is where we've got heightened awareness, increased speed of thinking, higher attention, and generally a higher state of arousal. Nothing's happening yet, but we're readying ourselves for this. So this one of Lisa’s example, could be getting ready for a marathon, or a race, or a running event. It could be getting ready for a big, big meeting, or big presentation where you're preparing yourself for it. You've been going through the process, your body starts, the blood pressure will go up, heart rate will go up. You get a physiological response going on in your body to prepare yourself to what's to come.
Now that's healthy, if you're not in it all the time. Okay, so that's healthy, it’s good if you're in all the time, we want to be able to ready ourselves for that. Where we're seeing quite a lot of problems at the moment, as people aren't coming out this, they're always on.
Lisa:Staying on the alarm stage.
Neil: They’re always on, they’re always switched on, they're lively. They're always twitchy and ready to go. And if you don't come out of that, then your body's not going to have the chance to recover and you're going to start to get—from a physiological point of view, those stress hormones flying through your body at a great speed. And that's what starts to put more problems on the body and problems with health. And that's where we see more issues with chronic disease and where we see bigger issues and those feelings of anger, anxiety, depression, and mental health.
Lisa:Mental health. I mean, I've got like an example there with just being open about my life with going through the drama with my dad and losing him. And being in that alarm phase, where we're fighting for his life for a couple of weeks in hospital and going harder, harder, in that absolute. I was in the alarm stage, and then the next stage, which is the resistance stage, where you're actually in the doing. And now we lost the battle, in that case.
And now, the anxiety that comes with being in that state for a few months, means that my body needs a massive amount of recovery right now. It doesn't need to be smashed and smashed with really high intensity workouts constantly and I'm slowly—but rebuilding, but it's the understanding that that's had a trauma on your life. And that has led to a very bad state of affairs, as far as all your exhaustion, all your stress hormones were concerned. And if I don't do something about that now, what that could lead to as real big health issues.
And I saw this when I went through it with my mom, four and a half years ago with her journey. I went hard out for the first 10, 11 months like to the point of like, absolutely blind myself to pieces, and I had to because she needed that. But then my body shut down, and then I was in and out of hospital. And I was in shit creek basically for the next year because my body was in that exhaustion stage, which is what we're going to talk about next. And so it's understanding—just as that's an example of my life, but we are going in and out of these stages on a daily basis, but also on a weekly basis and on a monthly and yearly basis.
So we just talked about the alarm stage where you're ready for action, but nothing's actually happened yet. So you're all anticipating and then you're in the actual resistance stage, which is the doing part of putting stress on your body. So you're taking action, you're making your body adjust and cope with the environment and you're in the fight. You're using the fuel and your body is resisting the stress. So this could be doing a workout. It could be situations like I was in, this is where you're going under slipped, maybe you're tired, you're pushing through, your stress hormones are very, very high. And this is a stage you can also get really stuck, isn’t that Neil?
Neil:Yes, it's spending too long here as well. A good example where we see too many people doing it is—I was having this conversation, someone today is just not getting enough sleep. We've all done it where we've had deadline at work or lots going on, but so many people are pushing it further and further and further now. So even though you're tired, you push through, using your stress hormones to stay on it, and there comes a point where your body will just stop producing the stress hormones as it should. And then you're really into the neutral phase. And that's when you start to get the risk of the chronic disease and the other feelings that we talked about—anxiety, depression, and the mental health side of things.
Lisa:There is a reason why chronic disease is just going up exponentially in society today, I mean that and toxins and environment and all that sort of jazz and food chains. But one of the big problems is this chronic state of exhaustion all the time I think, so that actually...
Neil:To add to your point earlier, you shouldn’t add the other things in it like poor food. You then add pollution, you add in toxins we've got around us.
Lisa:Heavy metals.
Neil:All of those things have all increased, and they've increased massively over previous years. And we're looking after our bodies less than we ever have done. So now we're in a position that they add those other things on top, and all of a sudden, the load just comes more and more and more.
So it's been where as well—where your stress is coming from, like we spoke about the start. It could be that simply by changing your eating habits, or the time of day you're eating, and what you're eating, and when you're eating, all of a sudden, that actually takes a load off your body. So you manage your work a whole lot more effectively. Sometimes the answer isn't actually just addressing what's under your nose and addressing your work, it could be addressing your food, your movement, how you're looking after your mind and all those things and then change your perception of work totally. So you can manage it a whole lot more effectively.
Lisa:Yes, absolutely. So the last stage that we wanted to talk about is going into the exhaustion stage, which is what we just explained, Neil, where you're absolutely been on the go for—God knows how many weeks, months, years, and your body is starting to shut down. And this is where you are starting to get chronic problems, and serious ones.
And this is the phase you don't want to get into because this is where you're going to be set on your ass, whether you like it or not, where your health is going to go down like mine did. And you will be forced to take a break. But we want to prevent that whenever possible. I mean, sometimes life is just going to throw a curveball at you. But if you understand this process, and you can perhaps stop getting to that exhaustion stage and understand that those stress hormones, I think most people think, ‘I've heard stress is bad for me. But how is it bad for me’?
Well, if we just go back, and I have talked about this a couple of times, but your parasympathetic and your sympathetic nervous systems, you've got these two systems, your rest and recovery and your sort of go-go-go state of affairs. And that sure is sympathetic, and most of us are sympathetic dominant. We're not having enough time for that rest and recovery, and our ancient biology is just really not keeping up.
And when you are in that fight or flight state, and you've got lots of cortisol and you've got lots of adrenal and you're taking energy away from your immune system, you are taking energy away from your digestive system, you're taking blood flow away from different parts of your brain, so you're not unable to make good decisions. You're unable to digest your food, and then you're affect your absorption. And that can affect your thyroid and it can affect your immune system, and on and on it goes.
So this is how stress actually has a physical effect on the body. It's not just a mental thing. I think people think often it's just a mental—under stress as a mental—no, it's very much a physical reaction of the body about where the body is putting the resources. You have a limited finite amount of money in the bank, or energy in the body, and their body is going to prioritise the areas that are most important.
So if it thinks that you're running away from the lion, it's going to put all the energy into making stress hormones, to making sure your blood is in your muscles so that you can run and you can fight. It's not going to be—in helping your immune system repair. It's not going to be in fighting infection. It's not going to be digesting and this is where the resources are being put. So it's like you spending all the money that you earn from your job in one particular area of your life and not paying the mortgage. That's what's happening. And you need to be paying that mortgage otherwise you're going to lose the house. That's a really good analogy, actually isn't Neil?
Neil:Yes, it’s a great comparison. And it brings us back to where we were talking about the start is where you're allocating your time to. In that example where you're allocating your money to, but if you're allocating all of your funds, all your time to one particular area, then something else is going to suffer.
Lisa:It's going to crash. We like to think we're superheroes and Neil you’re very, very close to being a superhero. But we're not really, we’re not really both.
Neil:Thanks. For me, I’m a little bit of one.
Lisa:Yes, for your kids.
Neil:And understanding as well that these different phases that we've just been talking about. You can go through these levels in one day, which was what we call a micro cycle, or you can over a longer period of time, months, years—go through them as a macro cycle, so a bigger cycle.
So we've talked about what happens if we stay in these phases, each of these phases too long. And Lisa has given some real good examples from her life is what does actually happen, from a mental and physical point of view, as well. So the fact that you can go through them each day, the exciting thing about that is you can put yourself in a position that you can control them each day. So you might feel like it's a big mountain to climb. And you've got to do a lot before you can get a grip of it. But you can actually make some quite significant easy changes each day to mean that you can start going in and out of these.
And sometimes just little micro rests, small rests, small windows opportunity where you actually can switch off the body, switch off the mind. And again, different things work for different people. But once you find your thing, start doing more of it because this will get you longer results in work, family, and sport as well. It applies to every aspect of the puzzle.
We talk a lot as well with getting people become more aware of themselves. So when we talk about awareness, we will look at the load that’s going to put on people's body. And I know that this has made a big difference that hasn't at least just been increasing our awareness around stress and our own personal wellness. And as we've increased that, it's made a big difference to what we're doing. And generally, we've seen those with lower awareness will generally tend to externalize their problems more, lose control more, the factors influencing their mood in life, and often will blame others more—it's someone else's fault, someone else's problem.
The greater awareness is, you’re more likely to take ownership of our problems, more likely to deal with them, and control our mood or health and how we look at the world. So it puts us in a much better position. Generally as well, we've seen that awareness will increase with age, although this isn't always the case.
Lisa:Not always.
Neil:Not always the case, the increase in experience. So as we've dug deeper into the science of what we do, how we do it, is definitely increased our awareness to the point that as we've experienced more things, coach more people through these things, our perspectives changed and as well, the way we self-reflect. And that's all led to low levels of stress because we've now got a better understanding of what's going on, why it's going on, and what load is having on our body so we can do something about it.
Lisa:And we can look after each other better, just as business partners, right?
Neil:Great point. Great point.
Lisa:It’s really important for corporate teams or sports teams to start recognizing signs and others And if you are more aware than the other person is then you can help them more and that is your responsibility then to be aware of other people and their needs around you. So that you can actually prevent things from spiralling out of control, and support each other a little bit better. And back off when things are getting tough for somebody and push a bit harder when someone needs a kick up the jacksy. So it's all about helping others and being more aware.
So if you find yourself blaming everybody else for the situation, then you're probably not very aware of things that are going on because you're just externalizing. If you're moaning a lot, ‘Well this is shit and that is shit. And my boss's this and my things that’, then you might want to have a look at the way that you're actually processing things and understanding things and take more ownership.
I'll give you an example of this with some of the people that come to ask for health problems and health consulting and health optimisation. I can sort of pretty much tell in the first 10 minutes whether this person is taking ownership of the situation, or whether they're just blaming everybody else and they're angry about it, but they want a magic bullet. And the ones who want an instant fix in blaming everyone else and not taking ownership over the situation are very difficult to work with from a coaching perspective and also very unlikely to get great results. And will likely blame you in six week’s time because they didn't get the result.
And they will go through 10 coaches and they'll go through 20 coaches and they will still have no results at the end of it. And it’s not necessarily the coaches’ problems, or the health professional problem, it is often the fact that they are not taking ownership about the things that they can take ownership on, in educating themselves and working on it.
So you can start to work on pieces of the puzzle. You may have a big health issue, for example, and now we work with some people with some pretty serious freaking health issues. And when you can work on a piece of it today and this piece of it, and we can work like a detective, and we can work through problems, you don't have to tackle the whole thing at once. But it's being more aware, ‘Am I a person who goes through life blaming everybody else, blaming the system, blaming that? Or am I someone who does something about it? Takes ownership, start to make change in your own life, and affect what you can as well as trying to influence the world around you’? Does it make sense?
Neil:It makes perfect sense, Lisa. It really does. It's a great, great takeaway for the listeners, as well, just ask yourself that question, ‘Where am I at from a self-awareness perspective with regards to my own personal wellness’? And you can use those examples you just went through there, put a scale on it.
But we've got a great list of questions, Lisa. We can start to get the listeners to use to increase their awareness around their own stress. The thing we wanted to point out as well as we start to wrap things up is that everyone will respond to stress in a different way. So therefore, the way we respond to stress is going to be different. So therefore, the way we manage it is going to be different as well.
So as you're going through these questions, there's no right answer, there's no correct answer. It's an answer that should be individual to you and should be personal to you. So ask the question, What is the biggest stress you've got at the moment? And how is it expressing? What is the stress you're expressing in your body?
Number two, what normally causes stress for your body? So you'll be very aware how your body reacts and feels in different situations. So take time to listen to what it's saying, where you feel stress increasing, you feel your anxiety levels climb, and just feel your body tensing? If you start to get signs and symptoms—and again, it's going to be different for everybody and take note of them and do something about them. We work with so many people that get the signs and symptoms, but don't take note of them and don't do anything about them.
How's the stress showing up? Is it coming in certain environments? Is it around certain people? Is it around certain conversations? So again, ask that question, when is it showing up? When is it arriving? Can you change anything there to make sure it doesn't show up? And what can be done immediately to alleviate the feeling and to support your biology? You made the great reference earlier in the conversation about painting and what that does for you. For me going and moving and I know this works for you as well, Lisa, but going in and moving, getting something, going rhythmical is great for my mind. That could be walking, swimming, running, cycling doesn't have to be anything high intensity, but just movement helps massively. Rhythmical movement will help calm my body, calm my mind.
And what can those around you do to support you? Now as we've been throughout our career as coach and athlete, and now in business, we're very aware of how we can support each other. But that's taken time to have the conversations and work through it and talk to each other about it. I know you do with Haisley, and I do it with my wife, Sam. Once you understand those things, and we've set it up with the people we work with around us as well, it makes a massive difference. If people understand how to support you, and are aware that there's different ways that different people are going to get stressed—what stresses you is going to be different for me. So if I don't take the time to understand that, I'm going to be going through thinking, ‘Now it doesn't worry me, it's not going to worry Lisa’, and that work in both directions.
And number six, what can I do to manage my stress response better? So again, just asking the question would increase awareness. The fact that we're drawing attention to it increases awareness, which means we're more likely to do something about it. Then finally, what are the long-term strategies that I can implement to lower my residual stress? So once I work out the answers to the previous questions, then what can I do long term? And it could be as simple as we're big fans, as we always say, of what's the low hanging fruit? Is it simple now that I go to question five and go, right, ‘What can others do to support me? Am going to make those around me—my family, my friends, my close work colleagues—am I going to make them aware of what's causing me stress, so that they can help me and pull me up’?
Like we do with each other will often pull each other up and go, ‘Right. This is clearly getting a bit much’. Going this direction, we'll do this differently, or you give me time to do things and process things because you know that helps keep me calm. And when you're going fast and hard, I say well, ‘Time to slow down. It's great but you’re getting too excited, come back’. And that works for us. So increasing awareness really does help you get results rather than just accepting that, ‘I'm going to carry on with the back pain. I'm going to carry on the inflammation in my body. I'm going to carry on with the upset stomach. And not connect them back to something external that’s causing it.
Lisa:That’s a really good one because like I had a conversation with someone today and I've got repeated inflammation in the body, repeated pains in the neck, and then not connecting the dots. They connected one dot today that I went, ‘Hah, finally something is starting to drop’. When you are having pains every which way in the body, if your initial thing was to go, ‘Well, I've tweaked my back’. Instead of going, ‘Hang on, why am I having ongoing injuries? Or why am I having a stack of things happening to me? Or why am I getting pains here, and then I'm getting pains there, there's something underlying going on’.
And what we're saying is often that underlying thing is an inflammatory response is related to stress, very often you'll find a component at least of stress. And then it can you know, as we see, it can be from a food stress or toxins, through a psychological stress, from lack of movement, stress, or lack of sleep, dehydration, but these are all forms of stress. And so understanding what is the trigger and trying to connect the dots and this is where that self-awareness.
And in using these simple tools that we've been talking about on this podcast and other podcasts that we've done—the breath work stuff, the meditation stuff, and the movement stuff, the routines for habits, the healthy habits that you develop over time, and you start to stack one on another. And these little things that help you manage your biology, and help you manage your dopamine levels and your serotonin, all your good neurotransmitters, and your hormones and all these things. And it is about tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak, until your life starts to look better, feel better, and be better. And then it will be a constant thing. It's not like you're going to do this once and you're good to go.
Neil and I have a whole lot of tools in our kit that we can pull out in times of stress to help us get through. However, we're still going to have times when we tip out of balance, and then we need each other and their family members and other—my friends to put us back in the balance again, and just make us aware. It's not a one and done thing. It's a constant tweaking, learning, growing process, about trying to keep yourself in a good, a good state, both physically and mentally.
Neil:A lot more and more, Lisa. I'm asking people, it should be like with some of these things that you do to look after your body. It should be like brushing your teeth. I ask the people I'm working with one on one, I say, ‘Right, did you brush your teeth today’? Now know what I mean? I've asked two or three people, really say, ‘We brushed our teeth’. And what I meant was, ‘Have you done any mobility work? Have you done the breathing work and what's right for their biology? Have you been out, spent time in nature, and I might get responses like their response that they're actually a bit fluffy today.
But we do those things every day. And you talk about habit stacking. And it's exactly that. If you can brush your teeth every day, then you can do the other things that will control and maximize your health and do them as well, the simple little things, it’s not just about brushing your teeth. So let's start putting some other things in practice that do that crucial awareness. We don’t do it, isn’t it?
Lisa:We think we have to have the most expensive piece of equipment or the best supplement or the greatest course or—actually if we just did the basics right, often that will give us a good foundation. Yes, we can get fancy fancy stuff later and get more into it if you want to really tweak your biology which we love doing and testing and trialing and experimenting, but just getting those basics right. And yes, making it the underlying underpinning philosophy of your whole life, that has to be at the core of it. Health, looking after yourself has to be at the core of it, and it is not being selfish.
Again, I had someone else today, very stressful life, a lot going on. I’m telling them the same thing we can week out, they're coming back with this problem and that problem, and they're not hearing what's going on, and they're not willing to invest in the right things, or to buy the right foods, or to sit down and actually go through the process of actually making the small changes. Because they want the quick answer and you have to look after yourself and they also don't prioritise themselves. Everybody else comes before them.
And therefore they are going to be unhealthy ongoing until they can come to that point of self awareness that they have to be doing these small changes and getting the micronutrients and avoiding certain things and changing just little behaviors so that they can actually be a good father, a good husband, a good wife, a good friend, a good colleague, whatever the case may be, put your own oxygen mask on first before you help somebody else. It's not being selfish. So I think that's a pretty good place to wrap it up for today, isn't it Niel?
Neil:I agree. Agree. As always good chatting mate, good chatting.
Lisa:Good chatting. And if you enjoyed this, please let us know. We'd love to get here. You know what you thought about the shows that we're putting out, the information that we're putting out. We'd love to get comments and feedbacks, of course rating and reviews are always appreciated. But just yes, if it's helped you let us know.
If you want more information, and of course, we'd love to work with you. Reach out to us as we have our epigenetics program, which is all about understanding your genes and how they interact with the environment and how to optimise and getting rid of trial and error, and knowing what to do for your body. Then we also have our online run training programs, of course, which we love, training athletes, going and doing amazing things all around the place again, or a holistic approach to everything that we do.
So reach out to us,support@listamati.com. We'll find both new life and thanks for listening today. We really appreciate your time and attention. Any last comments, mate?
Neil:I’d like to say good chatting. We're looking forward to another conversation soon.
Lisa:Right. I'm going to go and do some movement in nature. Brilliant. We'll see you next week, everybody.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
21 Jan 2021
Nourish Your Body with Detoxification and Metabolic Fitness with Dr Bryan Walsh
01:17:58
No one is exempted from exposure to environmental pollutants. While this may sound worrying, there are steps, backed with scientific and empirical evidence, to rid our bodies of these harmful pollutants. However, there is still a lot of misinformation about detoxification that we need to uncover.
In this episode, Dr Bryan Walsh discusses the common perception about detoxification and explains the actual science behind it. He talks about the different phases of detoxification and its complexity. Dr Walsh also tackles the importance of excretion as a widely ignored aspect of detoxification in diets and weight loss programs. Detoxification may seem challenging to start, but it begins with getting to know your body and blood chemistry.
If you want to know more about the science behind detoxification, then this episode is for you!
If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
[04:47] How Dr Walsh Started Studying Detoxification
Dr Walsh was interested in health and fitness from a young age. He eventually ventured into massage therapy and became a fitness professional.
He took a postgraduate degree to become a naturopathic physician.
After his education, he felt that he had to study more to serve his patients better.
His goal is to connect conventional Western medicine and alternative medicine.
[09:56] Views on ‘Toxin’ and Detoxification
Dr Walsh cites some ridiculous notions surrounding detoxification. In the 80s, it used to be rehabilitation for addiction to alcohol and drugs until everybody started hopping on the ‘detox bandwagon’.
Xenobiotic or commonly known as ‘toxins’ is something foreign to the body that can cause damage in excess.
When water leaves the body in any form, water-soluble toxins leave as well. Meanwhile, the body still needs to turn fat-soluble toxins into water-soluble toxins to get rid of it.
Our bodies are naturally built to detoxify pollutants through biotransformation.
Listen to the full episode for an in-depth discussion on toxins!
[16:11] Categories of Pollutants
First is heavy metals. This category includes aluminium, arsenic and mercury, among others.
Second is persistent organic pollutants, which include phenol, dioxins and pesticides.
The last category is volatile organic chemicals (VOCs) that are usually inhaled.
In essence, pollutants are everywhere.
[17:41] Everyone Is Exposed
While everyone is exposed to pollutants, the levels may vary due to location and lifestyle.
For instance, Dr Walsh believes that athletes may be less toxic due to sweating during exercise.
Listen to the full episode to know the body’s pathways for getting rid of environmental pollutants.
[23:04] The Difficulty in Assessment Criteria
There are a lot of variables and testing methods to consider in assessing toxin exposure.
The fat biopsy is regarded as the gold standard test. However, because different body areas store different amounts of fat, there’s no consistency in the body.
Taking these tests can guide you to make different lifestyle changes. However, keep in mind that they cannot determine your body’s toxicity level quantitatively by an absolute number.
Listen to the full episode to learn more about the complexity of detox questionnaires.
[30:00] Nature of Pollutants
Toxin gets stored in a cell or area with low concentration. This is called the concentration gradient.
If there’s more toxin in the blood and less in the cell, it will get stored in the cell.
When fasting, you go into a catabolic state. Studies have shown that xenobiotics in the blood increase in this state.
All detoxes are cellular detox.
[33:43] The Phases of Detoxification
Phase 0 starts with the fat-soluble toxin entering the cell.
Phase 1 is the reaction with the addition of a hydroxyl group.
Phase 2 concerns conjugation reaction of adding methylation, sulphation and the like.
Finally, phase 3 is when excretion happens.
Tune in to the full episode for Dr Walsh’s analogies and a detailed explanation of each phase!
[42:06] The Three Pillars of Detoxification
The keys of detoxification are mobilisation, biotransformation and excretion.
Mobilisation is getting pollutants out of storage.
Biotransformation encompasses phases 1 to 3.
Excretion should take the toxin out of your body.
[47:34] Effects of Dieting
Dr Walsh recommends doing a weight loss program in conjunction with a detoxification program.
During periods of weight loss or catabolism, xenobiotic levels increase.
The problem with rapid weight loss and yo-yo dieting is the redistribution of toxins in the body without excretion.
[53:22] Nutrients and Detoxification
Being nutrient sufficient is enough to support phase 1.
Phase 2 is driven by amino acids.
Phase 3 can be blocked by three inhibitors: milk thistle, curcumin and green tea. However, note that the effects of these three inhibitors are based on its dosage and the context.
One protocol will not work for everyone; you have to look at the totality. Listen to the full episode for more details about nutrients and botanicals!
[1:05:00] The Nature of Symptoms
For Dr Walsh, thyroid dysfunction may be secondary to another issue.
Once symptoms show, you should consider if it is a protective reaction.
[1:11:32] Advice for Detoxification
Dr Walsh shares details about his detox course, including a practitioner-based programme and The Walsh Detox for the general public.
Your blood chemistry is essential in determining your detoxification programme.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘I’ll be the first to tell you that science will never prove some of the things in life that are the most important things — relationships and love and how we try to study how the brain works — and I don’t think we have any idea’.
‘This is part of my problem with the industry is we can’t even decide on what a toxin is. . . So what I would suggest, the one that people are most talking about, that’s why I think environmental pollutant or environmental toxins make more sense because usually what people are talking about are things that are outside of us that get inside of us and cause damage of some kind’.
‘They will test their blood, their urine and their sweat for a specific xenobiotic or environmental pollutant. And they will find in many cases, it’s not in the blood, it’s not in the urine, but it is in the sweat’.
‘Everybody’s toxic. Everybody needs to detoxify. . . It’s not necessarily exposure; it’s we all have some degree of storage. The question is, when somebody is not feeling optimal, is it because of that or not? And so you can’t run around screaming everybody’s toxic because I don’t know that they are’.
‘And so it’s [toxins are] concentration gradient-based, which also means so that’s how it gets stored. If there’s more in the blood and less in the cell, then it will tend to go into the cell. And that’s when it gets stored’.
‘There’s some ridiculous stories out there that will say, ‘The body won’t release toxins if it’s not healthy enough, and it doesn’t think it can deal with them’. That’s not true’.
‘I’m against protocols; because one protocol will be brilliant for one and harmful for another same protocol’.
About Dr Walsh
Dr Bryan Walsh has been studying human physiology and nutrition for over 25 years and has been educating others in health for 20 of those years. When he isn’t teaching, he spends his time poring over the latest research and synthesising his findings into practical information for health practitioners to use with their clients. He has given lectures to members of the health care industry around the world and consistently receives positive feedback in his seminars and courses.
His online educational platform,Metabolic Fitness, helps health professionals to stop guessing and start knowing what to do with their patients.
Dr Walsh is best known for challenging traditional dogma in health and nutrition concepts, such as questioning current models of adrenal fatigue, glucose regulation, detoxification, mitochondrial dysfunction and more.
As such, he has been sought out to consult with multiple companies, academic institutions and wellness organisations. Dr Walsh is also a board-certified Naturopathic Doctor and has been seeing patients throughout the U.S. for over a decade.
Outside of his professional endeavors, you can find him spending time and having incredible amounts of fun with his wife, Dr Julie Walsh, and five children.
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Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about the science behind detoxification.
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. And today I have just a super superstar for you, Dr. Brian Walsh, who's sitting in Maryland in the USA. Dr. Walsh is someone that I've followed for a long time and learned from. He is one of the great teachers in biochemistry and physiology. And today we are discussing detoxing very relevant to this time of the year. And this is all really next level information. Because it's all about detoxing, like what are the actual physiological steps of a detox process? And what is the latest and current research. This is not something you read in a two page magazine article detox type of thing. But this is the real deal with someone who really, really knows his stuff.
Now, Dr. Brian Walsh has been studying human physiology and nutrition for many, many years. And he spends his time sort of poring over the latest research and synthesizing all of that information for the layperson to be able to understand. And he also lectures at Western States University in biochemistry. And as a healthcare professional, he's a doctor of naturopathic medicine. And he has an online educational platform calledmetabolicfitnesspro.com, where he helps other health professionals like myself, and many, many others, as well as lay people with his programmes and courses.
And we're going to be discussing today, as I said, detoxing, how to do it properly, when not to do it, what to be aware of if you are doing it. And he's you know—Dr. Walsh is someone who's really known for challenging traditional dogma in health. And he actually goes and does all the research, does deep deep dives into all of the clinical studies into PubMed, and then brings us the latest and information. So he's really someone that you want to have on your radar, someone that you want to know, if you want the latest and greatest in information.
I hope you're enjoying your Christmas time, by the time this episode comes out, Christmas will have been passed. And we're into the new year. And hopefully the world is on a new trajectory and that 2021 is going to be a hell of a lot better. And what better way to start the year than with a discussion around detoxing and getting your body in good shape for the year ahead. So without further ado, I'll be heading over to Dr. Brian Walsh.
And just a reminder too. If you want help with any health issues, if you are dealing with anything, please reach out to uslisa@lisatamati.com. You can reach me on email. If you're wanting information about our online run training programmes at Running Hot Coaching, want personalized run training, please do reach out to us as well. We just launched a new package that will be coming out in the next few weeks. So keep an eye out for that where we're going to be offering video analysis, as well as fully customized programmes and a session with me—all included in there in a package price. It's really really a no brainer. So if you want to find out about that, please reach out to us atlisa@lisatamati.com.
Of course our epigenetics programme is still open, if anyone wants to know and understand the genes—understanding everything to do with your genes, eliminating the trial and error for your body, understanding what foods to eat exactly, which areas you're predisposed to have problems with, how your brain functions, what your dominant hormones are all of this sort of great information. Please also reach out to us and we can put you in the right direction. We've done a few webinars already on our epigenetics programme. And in the coming weeks, we're also going to be having Dr. Ken McDonald on from PH-316, who's going to be going a little bit more deeper into this. So I hope you enjoy the session though for now with Dr. Brian Walsh. And we'll head over to him right now.
Lisa Tamati:Well, hi everyone and welcome back to the Pushing The Limits. This week, I am super excited. I'm jumping out of my skin. I have a man who I really, really admire. I love his work. He's got an incredible brain. Just absolutely mind-mind conversation we were going to have today. I have Dr. Bryan Walsh with me. Welcome to the show, Dr. Walsh.
Dr. Bryan Walsh:Thank you so much for being here.
Lisa:It's a really, really an honour to have you on. Dr. Walsh, you’re still in Maryland, in the States? Can you give us a bit of a background just on who you are and sort of a quick synopsis and your background as a physician, etc.?
Dr. Bryan:Well, yes, I guess I should say it all started out, I was very much into health and fitness, even at a young age, quite honestly. I became a fitness professional—that’s how I started. And then I did a lot of orthopaedic work, so that led me to massage therapy. So I did massage and I was a fitness professional. And the problem is my clients would ask me health advice. And here in the States—I'm a law-abiding citizen—I could have talked to them about nutrition and supplements, but I wasn't allowed to with those things that I did.
So then I looked—and there's something in the States, it's a naturopathic physician, naturopathic doctor. I know you guys have naturopathic there. They're a little bit different. It's a four year postgraduate degree. So you go to four years of university, and the traditional four years. And then you have your doctorate. That sounded really good to me because I was already into alternative health. I was devouring books, on health, on herbs, on homeopathy, everything in the health. And that was the umbrella for all these things that I was interested. And I thought, wow, that's great, perfect.
So I went through four years of that. Spent way too much money. But it's also where I met my wife. So that is money rally well spent. Yes. Although we both went to school there. So we doubled our debt, essentially, by marrying each other. But what we quickly realized is that it didn't really prepare us to do what we wanted to do. And it didn't take long. I was sitting in front of patients, and I honestly—I didn't think I know what I was doing. I didn't feel qualified. I spent all that money over the four years of school with great classes, but it sounded like all these great topics but...
And so that started me—and this is all to tell you this story— where I realized I had to teach myself everything, that I had to reteach myself physiology. I know we're going to talk about detox today. But how I stumbled upon that what I'll call is the truth about detox. And so where I am today is I believe in old medicine, I believe in the body heals itself. But Western science and Western medicine is incredible. I mean, we owe much of what we know about the human body, in terms of mechanisms and pathways and how herbs even work in the first place, to Western science.
So what I tried to do is bridge the best of both, is to take the alternative nutritional functional health world, which is great for some things but horrible in others, and combine that with conventional Western medicine, which is great in some things, but horrible in others, and I try to connect the two. So I hope that gives you much of...
Lisa:That’s brilliant.
Dr. Bryan:I love science.
Lisa:And I love the way you sort of combine the traditional or the alternative with the allopathic sort of model because they do both have good things, and they do both have problems.
Dr. Bryan:Absolutely. And I can tell you, I love science. But I'll be the first to tell you that science will never prove some of the things in life—of the most important things, in relationships, in love, in health. We try to study how the brain works and I don't think we have any idea. We try to—we're doing genetic testing now, I don’t think… We talked about the microbiome, I don't think we know much of anything when it comes to these things. So, science is fascinating. It's so fun. It can occupy you for hours upon hours upon hours of reading and the rabbit hole of PubMed, but I don't think it will ever offer some of the answers.
So that's kind of where I live is that we live in this expansive universe full of all sorts of possibilities. But here on Earth, science really helps us a lot understand certain things, but it doesn't contain all the answers.
Lisa:It's a very humble approach. And I think a really good place to start because we know a lot, we don't know a lot more. But we have to sort of work with what we've got and the best knowledge. And this is something that I've really enjoyed out of like, I think I've devoured everything I could find on the internet of yours. And I must say sometimes, I'm like my brain is spinning, trying to keep up and it's fantastic. And I was talking to a colleague who's also really into you and he's got a master's in physiology and he said, ‘Well, I struggled, too, so don't feel bad’.
But you do have a way of putting things into analogies that I have just found absolutely fascinating. And today we're going to go into detoxing. And there is an analogy in this story that I've heard you speak of a couple of times that really went, ‘Aha, I get it now’. So definitely want to delve into that analogy. But so just to start with, with detoxing. Let's look at what detoxing in the public realm—if you like—in the popular—the magazines. People talk about detoxing a lot. And I think that we don't understand what detoxing is. So let's start there. What is a proper detox?
Dr. Bryan:So what you just described, that's the problem. It's a mess. I was just in the checkout line at the grocery store, two days ago. I even took a picture of my phone to send my wife and it was like, ‘A faster way to do a liver detox’, and it was some medical doctor. I thought, ‘I'm not even going to open that magazine. It's going to be garbage’.
You’re right. People say, ‘drink a little bit of lemon juice in the morning, and that's a great way to detoxify the body’. And then I was in the airport one day, and I saw these foot pads that you put on your feet to help pull toxins out of your feet. And then there's the foot pads, and there's colonics. And there's all these different things, and that's why conventional medicine doesn't believe any of this because you have these people saying, ‘Well, when you skin brush, then you're detoxifying yourself’, maybe, maybe not. But no wonder they think that we're a bunch of quacks because if you stand back and look at all that nonsense, it does look like quackery.
In the 80s, detox, the only detox there—unless you were like a hippie—in the 80s, was like a celebrity going through some kind of rehab for some kind of addiction, alcohol or drug addiction, then they would go through some kind of rehabilitation, so that was a detox. That was the only detox there was. And then all of a sudden everybody started getting on this detox bandwagon. And the thought is that we are bombarded with—we’re basically these toxic waste cesspools of disgusting that’s inside of our bodies, and the only way to get rid of it is to do these to detoxify.
Now, there's some truth to that, some truth. But our body is designed to—a better way to say detoxification is biotransformation, first of all. So there are two different types of we'll call—I don't even like the word toxins, quite honestly. You can call them xenobiotics, starting with it with an ‘x’. Xenobiotic means it's something foreign to the body. You can also call them environmental pollutants, environmental toxins, whatever you’re going to call it. Some people say synthetic, but that's not true because Mercury is toxic to the body in high amounts. So, for lack of better terms, we can call them toxins, xenobiotics or whatever. But they're things that are foreign to the body that in excess can cause damage.
There's essentially, for simplicity sake, two forms, there's water soluble, and there's fat soluble. Water soluble, by and large, I don't think we have to deal with too much, because our body is really good at getting rid of it. Our body is so much water already, we don't have to do anything to it. If we have access to something that's toxic, and it's water soluble, our body's pretty good at getting rid of it.
And when you look at the ways of getting rid of something, it's anywhere that water goes. So sweating, obviously, urinating, it's quite a bit of quite a water. In faeces, there's a small amount of water that gets expelled there. And even technically—and people have measured this but in tears or saliva, you can get rid of toxins too. So anything where water is leaving the body, then water soluble toxins are leaving as well. And I personally believe that those aren't much of a concern to us because our body... It's kind of like if you take a whole bunch of B vitamins. Technically, those can be toxic in high amounts but they're water soluble in your urine turns glow in the dark yellow if you take too much of that because your body is getting rid of it. Same with vitamin C or any of the water-soluble vitamins.
Interestingly—and I hadn't thought of this as a way of describing this, but the vitamins that they say to be careful with are the fat-soluble ones like vitamin A, D, and K because they can accumulate and then those are the toxic ‘vitamins’ if you look at conventional medicine. So fat soluble toxins, those ones are more of concern because they can get stored and the body has to work a little bit harder in order to get rid of them. In other words, you have to take something that's fat soluble, turn it into something that's water soluble, and then the body can get rid of it and all those pathways that we talked about.
So the body has built in detoxification or bio transformation processes—everybody says it's the liver but it's not. The enzymes and steps necessary for this are found in a number of tissues and in quite a bit. So, things that have exposure to the outside world, the skin has this disability, the liver does, the kidneys do, the lungs incidentally do, the testes in a guy does when we consider the location as exposure to the outside world more so than some of the internal organs. And we can go into the details of this but basically this fat-soluble toxin that can cause damage to the body gets metabolized or bio transformed, turned into a water-soluble toxin, if you will, a compound. And then is easily excretable in—again sweat, tears, saliva, urine, or a little bit in faeces. So yes, that's kind of a nutshell version of it, I think.
Lisa:Okay, so. So let's look quickly at what are toxins and what sort of a fix they have in the body? So we're talking things like your heavy metals, your Mercury's that you mentioned, your pesticides, your preservatives in your food, there's chemicals that were exposed to.
Dr. Bryan:So that's honestly—this is part of my problem with the industry is we can't even decide on what a toxin is because the toxin if you think about it, a toxin is something that could cause damage to the body. Right? So then you could say a reactive oxygen species or oxidative stress is a toxin, technically. Hormones, if you have too much of a hormone, can that cause damage to the body? It absolutely can. So, then all of a sudden is a hormone a toxin.
And so that's where we start to run into problems, is that we just throw out these terms like toxins. Well, what is that something that? Something that damages the body? Well, a hammer, if you hit me on the head is going to damage my body. Is that a toxin? Let's say, oh, it's internally. All right, well, so how about lipid polysaccharides from a gram-negative bacteria? That's an infection. Is that a toxin? Yes, it is. So that's our—aflatoxin, you have mould in your house. And so, it ends up being this really broad term that people have a hard time describing.
Now, so what I would suggest. The one that people are most talking about, that's why I think environmental pollutant, or environmental toxins, make more sense because usually what people are talking about are things that are outside of us that get inside of us and cause damage of some kind. And there's three, let's just say major categories of that there's actually more. One would be things off the periodic table. So that's the heavy metals, by and large, so aluminium, arsenic, mercury, all those types. Even copper, copper is toxic. Iron is toxic.
Then there's—loosely the category that you can call persistent organic pollutants. And that's all the ones that get all the press, like this phenol and phthalates and dioxins and all those different things, pesticides. And then there's the ones that you could call them volatile organic chemicals, or VOCs, those ones are usually inhaled. So, you paint, you’re repainting your house, or your apartment and the smell that you get, or cosmetics or toiletries, cleaning products. If you buy a brand new piece of furniture and that off gassing, carpets. So those are the— mean, there's more, but those are the three major categories that I consider so... But then you consider where those come from, in the food that we eat, in the water that we drink, in the air that we breathe, it literally is everywhere.
Lisa:Yes. So we are toxic.
Dr. Bryan:Well, yes. We are. And I long time ago would say that we're all toxic, and everybody needs to detoxify. And I've tempered that a little bit because like for example, there's one published paper that suggests—well, okay, I should take a step back—everybody is exposed, everybody is exposed, period, end of story. To prove otherwise, I would need to see that proof.
Now, it's going to be different considerably, however, based on your location, where you live. In New Zealand versus America. Here in America, I'm in Maryland, but that's going to be a lot different. I'm near farmland. So, we might have exposure to pesticides, but not so much some of the other things that might have been more of an urban area. In New Zealand there’s other different things.
So also that depends on one's lifestyle. So me and my family largely eat organic food as much as possible. We use—I don't say green cleaning products, but we use better cleaning products than just the standard things. And so we probably have less exposure than somebody following a standard diet using standard toiletries, cosmetics, yes, and all those different things too. So, we all have exposure. Yes, that's it. I think I believe that's irrefutable.
Is it stored in all of us? And I'm going to go ahead and say yes, but to different degrees. For example, you said you're a professional athlete. You have sweat a lot more than the majority of people. There's also some really interesting evidence showing that exercise actually upregulates certain detoxification or bio transformation enzymes. So you might actually be more adapted to that.
Lisa:Another good reason to do it.
Dr. Bryan:Absolutely. You know what? It’s so funny, like, you know you're supposed to, but then you just see more and more reasons. And it does, it absolutely has been shown in papers, to upregulate certain detoxification enzymes. In addition to the fact that you're sweating more so than somebody who's sedentary. So, I haven't seen any literature on this, but I believe that most athletes are probably less toxic than the general public.
Lisa: The sweat is also a preferred pathway for some of the toxins to leave the body.
Dr. Bryan:If used badly, yes. The skin has been called the third kidney before, which is kind of a cute thing to call it. I mean, is it or is it not? I mean, it's not like you're urinating out of your skin. So that should be gross. Next time you sweat, think of that. No, but it's a major excretory organ.
And I will add this, there's some really interesting, really interesting scientific papers — small, unfortunately, not a lot of money in this industry to test this stuff. But they will take a group of people, and they will test their blood, their urine, and their sweat for a specific xenobiotic or environmental pollutant. And they will find in many cases, it's not in the blood, it's not in the urine, but it is in the sweat.
Lisa:Exactly. Yes. The preferred pathway, yes.
Dr. Bryan:That's an indication that a) it's being stored and b)... Yes, whether it's a preferred pathway or not, what that means to me is that it's probably stored in the tissues. Because you think about the blood, the blood is circulatory and it's bringing things around. The kidneys are filtering the blood. So, if it's not in the blood, that makes sense, it's not in the urine. What that means is it's stored. It's if it's not coming out in the urine, that means it's not in the blood, that means it's stored in tissues. And so, it isn’t going out. So whether it's preferred by the body or not, I don't know. But that just means that it's right there, right close to the tissues.
Lisa:Yes, In coming out.
Dr. Bryan:Right close to the periphery, and it's coming out via the interstitial fluid and stuff surrounding itself. But here's another thing to consider, too, when you talked about the demographic of the population that listens to this is, while most athletes probably have less—I mean, when it gets a broad state, you can't say yes, might have less because of exercising, because of firing. But are they exposed to something more than might somebody else be?
So for example, if they're drinking out of plastic bottles that have been warmed up sitting in the sun all day, like might they have more excess pollutants...
Lisa:More BPA...
Dr. Bryan:….these people are outside exercising in polluted area.
Lisa:Exhaust fumes.
Dr. Bryan:Exhaust fumes. I mean, you think about your respiratory rate when you're exercising, your respiratory rate is quite a bit higher than somebody who's sedentary. So then all of a sudden all those...
Lisa: And oxidative stress
Dr. Bryan:Yes, absolutely. So there's a lot of factors to consider for sure.
Lisa:Yes. So we've looked at—these are the broad categories of toxins. And yes, we're probably all toxic, and we need to be doing or thinking about doing a detox—I don't want to say protocol—but to thinking about it constantly detoxing. And you touched on the couple of studies here where they measure the sweat, they measure the urine, and so on, and they got different measurements for different things. That's one of the problems, isn’t it? The assessment criteria. Because obviously, if we're doing a detox, we want to be able to assess, are we actually getting—and when you dived into the literature of assessments in defining out which is the best—how do I see if I'm toxic? What did you find in the literature around all the assessments?
Dr. Bryan:So in the functional medicine world, there's no shortage of—well just tests in general and really attractive, good looking tests that when you look at them, you want to run them. Like, ‘Well, I would like to run this on myself. forget my patients or clients I want to run these tests’. The scientific validity on a lot of these tests is not there at all, despite what people might say or think.
Yes, so I'm not opposed to testing for toxins. But there's so many variables to consider, and the practitioners that are running them, I don't think are considering these. So I think a lot of people are using them—they're wasting their money on them because they're not considering all these variables. So, for example, the first question to ask is, ‘what tissue do you test’? Do you test the blood? Do you test the urine? There are hair tests. Technically, in the literature, they test fingernails for toxin exposure. There's so many different ways of testing–fat biopsy, you want to take a needle into your fats, take some of it out and test that.
And actually—I'll say since I said that—fat biopsies are considered to be the gold standard for internal toxic burden, and that would make sense if that's where they're stored. But the problem is, according to research—and this is done on humans, mind you—that different fat depots in the body store differing amounts of things. So, you might inject it into your, your, your butt fat, and find a whole bunch of one thing, and then you do it to your abdominal fat, and you come up with a higher amount of something else. So, if that's the gold standard, and you can't even have any consistency in the human body, then that's not going to be accurate, either. And if that's the gold standard, then that's not accurate, then none of them are going to be accurate.
So, the short version is there are some—I guess I'll say, like validated as much as you can questionnaire—subjective questionnaires that one can take and get an idea of how toxic they may or may not be. Now, it's not quantitative. It's quantitative in the sense that you get a numerical value for the score. But it's not quantitative, in terms of like, This is how toxic I am. I am 80% toxic out of 100’. It's just a subjective questionnaire. But if somebody were to take a questionnaire like this, and scores high...
Lisa:We've got a problem
Dr. Bryan:...and then does a few detox rounds or whatever, for a few months, six months, nine months, whatever it is, and then does it again and their scores are lower, that's good enough to suggest that they're doing better. And what's interesting about some of these questionnaires, is they not only asks things like, ‘do you live around industry? Do you have exposure to petrol or to gas’? But your symptoms as well. And so it takes all of these considerations, like, ‘Yes, I live and work around a lot of chemicals, but I don't have symptoms’ versus somebody that has a whole bunch of symptoms that are associated with toxic exposure, but they don't live around them. So, it does—they really are comprehensive.
Lisa:I’d like to get a couple of the links to those if we could possibly see.
Dr. Bryan:And listen, it's free. That's the very nice thing. You don't have to spend 300 US dollars on some blood tests that may or not be accurate. And what people are really interested in is, ‘how toxic are you’? Well, if my surroundings and my symptoms suggest that I am, based on these questionnaires, that's good enough for me. And as opposed to test, if you do it six months later, and it's approved, then I think you're probably doing a little bit better.
Lisa:It's a little bit like your cell blueprint, which I found brilliant, by the way, and if anyone wants to check out that we can put the links. That questionnaire that you've developed there gives the practitioner the direction to go and we don't have a specific, ‘This isn’t definitely but hey, you might want to check your thyroid. Hey, you might want to go and check if you've got a parasitic infection, or whatever the case may be’. And I find that a brilliant system really.
Dr. Bryan:But isn't that what a practitioner wants to do? I mean, the patients come in, and they want to know, ‘Well, where should I head first’? And detox questionnaire—and again, so everybody is exposed period, everybody's exposed. Everybody has some degree of storage. Now, I don't know how much. They might be really toxic. They might be cut. Who knows? But everybody has some degree of storage. The question is, then, is, ‘Are your symptoms—because of xenobiotic exposure—are in storage or not’?
And that's where these questionnaires come in handy. If you take a questionnaire like that, and I mean, because there's people out there, believe me, there's plenty of them. Everybody's toxic, everybody needs to detoxify. There's an old book calledDetoxify or Die. I mean, if that's not scary enough. It’s a good book, but I mean, it's not necessary. So we all have exposure, it's we all have some degree of storage. The question is, when somebody is not feeling optimal, Is it because of that or not?
And so you can't run around screaming ‘everybody's toxic’ because I don't know that they are. But if you score high on one of those questionnaires, then that's the direction you'd want to look into. And if you score low, I mean, listen, people will still argue it, ‘Well. We're still all toxic’. I wouldn't go down that road. It wouldn't be the first thing that I’ll thought about.
Lisa:It’s not your first protocol
Dr. Bryan:Oh, no. The questionnaires... Absolutely.
Lisa:Yes, I think that's what I do as a practitioner too, as epigenetics practitioner, and a health coach, is go for the low hanging fruit first. Because we can go in 100 directions and I can confuse the hell out of my clients and they can be like, ‘what the hell am I doing’? But if you are going for the ones late tackle, best piece of the puzzle, and then work your way up the food chain is so to speak—and actually find out which ones are the most important.
Dr. Walsh, I mean—we're going to put the links in the show notes—you've developed your own detox system if you like, which I'm really keen to share with everybody and for them to check out. But let's go in now to the actual four phases of detox: zero, one, two, and three, and you have four, isn't it? In most people—or some people are at least aware of phase one and two detox within the cell. And when I first heard you talk about this, I was like, ‘Wow, okay, there’s a zero and there’s a three’. Okay, can you explain in a nutshell, what the body does when it gets a toxin? It's in the blood for some reason, it's gotten there. What actually happens next in these detox phases?
Dr. Bryan:All right, welljust to make it really comprehensive. I'll tell you, when you said when it gets into the blood, what happens? So when it gets in the blood, it can be detoxified, biotransformed, and excreted. But the best way to describe this is, so if it's in the bloodstream, wish I have something to sort of model this with but so like, so the bloodstream, and then you have you have a cell next to the bloodstream. Now there's—in physiology, there's what's called a concentration gradient. And these membranes… And so let's say we have the bloodstream in a tube—I really wish I had some kind of props here. I’m looking around. I have—my son has a Santa hat, razor blade, I don't know, I don't have much around here. Anyhow, so you have the bloodstream and here you have a cell. Now, if there's more in the blood of this, whatever it is, and less in the cell, it will tend to go into the cell. And it's usually fat cells, because it's fat soluble, it will tend to go into adipocytes or fat cells.
And so it's concentration gradient based, which also means—so that's how it gets stored. If there's more in the blood and less in the cell, then it will tend to go into the cell. And that's when it gets stored. There's a really, really cool paper that discusses how adipocytes used to be considered to be just an energy repository, but then turned out to be an organ because they excrete over a hundred different things. But one of the additional roles they suggest is that it is this. It is to store toxins or xenobiotics, or things that could otherwise damage the body—they're fat soluble, which would make sense.
Now, if that's a concentration grid. Now let's say we're in a fasted state, and we haven't eaten anything and or exposure. If there's less in the blood, and more in the fat cell, then it will leak out. And it's based on a concentration grade, it's based on homeostasis. There’s some ridiculous stories out there that will say, ‘the body won't release toxins if it's not healthy enough, and it doesn't think it can deal with them’. That's not true. What I've seen is that it leaks out from a homeostasis for a concentration gradient if there's less than the blood and more in the cell. So we are constantly leaking this stuff into our blood, if it's stored. Now this gets amplified. And I talked about this in the course, during lipolysis. So in a fasted state, in a catabolic state—not even not even losing fat, but just in a catabolic state which we go through at night. So if you stop eating at 8pm and you're sleeping, you're in a catabolic state, for example.
If you're in a state of fasting, or lipolysis, then that's going to speed up mobilization. So now—and all the studies I've ever seen on mammals or humans show this. In a hypocaloric state, or fasted state levels of xenobiotics go up in your blood. And I'll say it again because that's huge. In a fasted state or a hypocaloric state, like dieting, then if there's stored xenobiotics, it will dump into the bloodstream, and those levels go up. And they always show that every single time because that's a state of lipolysis as a catabolic state.
So then now we're back in the blood. So whether it's at an immediate exposure, or it was just released, the rest of the story remains the same. So then what happens? And I should just say too, I mean, I get frustrated with pieces of the industry. There's some people that will say, ‘Well, it's not a detox if it's not a cellular detox. If you don't detox yourself, then you're not’... This happens at the cellular level, as all detoxes is a cellular detox. So what I'm about to describe next is the cell.
So let's say we have that xenobiotic it's floating around in the blood, we either just had exposure, or it came out of a fat cell. So in one of the cells, like the liver, the kidneys, the skin that we said has the ability to do this, there are four phases of detox. So if you picture just a cube, all I have is a mug, but I have a cube. Then there needs to be a door coming in and a door coming out, that's going to be two of the phases. And then once it's inside, there's two other things that are going to happen to this.
So here's our cell, we have a fat soluble compound—I'm looking around for some—we have a fat soluble.
Lisa:It’s like your room, isn’t it?
Dr. Bryan:Well, that's the way that's why I've said it before. So yes, I mean, you could just use it as that. So in the room that you're in, or even a car quite honestly would work. So if you're in a room, you’re the cell, that's the cell, let's just say it's a liver cell. So when the door opens, that's phase zero detoxification. That's an actual phase. It was recently discovered in the early 2000s. Most people haven't heard of it but it's legitimate, things can block this. So if that happens, then that's a problem, clearly. So phase zero is when the door opens and the fat soluble compound comes into your room, into where you were.
Lisa:Into the cell.
Dr. Bryan:Into the cell, right. And once it's there, it has to go through two phases of detox. And you said I use analogies—quite honestly, I kind of make them up on the fly.
Lisa:That’s awesome.
Dr. Bryan:Well, I mean, I don't even know what I said. But I think in the past, what I've said...
Lisa:It was an angry dude—a person—we make the person a toxin who’s just entered the room.
Dr. Bryan:Oh yes. All right. I make him up on the fly until now. So all right, yes, yes, I can go with that one. So you have the room, the room’s a cell, a person is on the outside of your room, they come in, that's phase zero. And that's all it is in the cell is just a little protein tube. So the person comes in, they're fat soluble person. And they're angry. So what did we say?
Lisa:You stick a sticky note on the head.
Dr. Bryan:Is that what I said?
Lisa:Yes.
Dr. Bryan:Let’s make them more mad. That's right. Okay. See, listen, I'm telling you make it up right then and there. All right, you're right. You're right. You're right.
So the person comes in, and they will damage your room. But to incite them and make them even more angry. Yes, that’s right. You put a little sticky note, like what was your little yellow sticky notes, and you put them on the forehead, that makes them really mad. Even more mad than they were in the first place. And now you can calm them down. But if you don't, they're going to start flipping over your desk, and just totally, totally worse than they were in the first place. They were angry when they came in. But now they're even angrier. But you can hand them a $100 bill. And they're going to say, ‘All right, I was angry but now I'm not anymore. I'm good. You just handed me something. So I'll go ahead and quietly leave the room now’. And then when they walk out another door of the room, then that would be phase three.
So to put that—and thanks for reminding me of my analogy. But biochemically speaking, so you have a fat soluble compound, like a phthalate or a dioxin, or whatever it might be. So it literally has to get in the cell in the first place. Now, researchers used to think it was a fat-soluble membrane, fat soluble compound, and would just go right in. And that's not the case. It needs a channel in order to bring it in. That's phase zero, literally it is phase zero. And why is it phase zero? It was because they discovered this after they already knew about phase one and phase two, but they didn't have any numbers before then and they didn't even know it existed. So in the early 2000s, they said, ‘Well, we'll name it phase zero’. So that's the entry of a fat-soluble toxin, let's just say into hepatocyte, liver cell.
Phase one: reactions. There's a few different kinds. They’re like oxidation reduction type of thing, hydrolysis. Basically, what happens is that when in the sticky note what it had on it, it had an OH, hydroxyl group. So you put a hydroxyl group on this person, or you exposed a hydroxyl group that was already present but wasn't fully exposed. Now the problem is after we put that sticky note on their forehead, and they got even more angry is that toxin beforehand could cause damage to the body. It could cause oxidative stress or DNA damage or endocrine disruption or citric acid cycle, mitochondria, whatever was unique to that particular toxin. But now that it has OH exposed or added on to it via phase one, it is water soluble, first of all. It's water soluble, which is cool. Now your body can get rid of it. However, it's considered to be an intermediate metabolite, and is considered to be more damaging than the original xenobiotic.
Now, it's not true of every single time. And that's the thing, there are too many of these compounds to make blanket statements. People will say it's more toxic. No, it's not. It may be more damaging—I'm not going to say more toxic. It may cause more damage now that it's water soluble with this hydroxyl group exposed. But then phase two, when you handle this angry—now really angry person, a $100 bill US dollars. I wouldn't let you guys—you hand them a $100 bill or a bunch of money, they're not angry anymore. They're still water-soluble, they were but now phase two is considered a conjugation reaction and conjugation is adding something to it.
And so people that are familiar with phase two are familiar with things like methylation or sulphation, or glucuronidation, or amino acid conjugation, any of those things but what gets handed is this: so sulfation, you hand them a sulphur group, methylation, it hands them a methyl group, amino acid conjugation, it's usually glycine, glycine will go, glutathione conjugations glutathione, so acetylation and acetyl groups. So the xenobiotic gets handed to it, what's unique to that particular one, if that makes sense. You can make it really easy to talk about hormones like sex hormones, go through the same pathway—the testosterone, the estrogen. They go through the same pathway.
Lisa:They do, and neurotransmitters as well.
Dr. Bryan:Yes, cytokines, immunoglobulin, antibodies
Lisa:And dopamine and all of that?
Dr. Bryan:Yes, by and large, by and large, yes. So then it gets phased two. It gets something handed to. Let's say, it gets a sulphur group and went through sulfation. Now, it's no longer damaging to the body. Now it's relatively benign. It was damaging as its original compound. It came in through phase zero, it was made potentially more damaging by exposing or adding on a hydroxyl group, depending on what the compound was, and depending on the biochemical pathway went through, but then when it gets conjugated, it's still water soluble, but now it's not damaging. And can there—if phase three, that second door is open, can go out of the door.
Now remember, so all that does—and this is a really important part—there's a lot of misunderstandings of what phase three is. Phase three is merely a tube, leaving that cell, which means that, this thing now, in terms of physiology goes into the interstitial fluid surrounding cells.
Lisa:And it’s water-soluble at this point.
Dr. Bryan:It’s water-soluble in the interstitial fluid, and can be excreted in sweat. It can go through the lymphatic system, which is going to pick up some of the junk of the interstitial fluid but that just dumps itself in the bloodstream anyways, which that means it'll probably end up in the kidneys and get excreted out in urine. But a lot of this can end up going in—since it happens in the liver, the liver will get rid of its these...
Lisa:...products
Dr. Bryan:...through bile because the route from the liver to the intestines is via bile.
Lisa:Why is this not phase four, then? Like phase three should be the thing leaving the cell.
Dr. Bryan:It is, that's phase three.
Lisa:Phase four should be like actually the excretion method.
Dr. Bryan:You can call it phase—or at some point, you're going to have too many phases. You’ll be like, the 10 phases of detox. It will just confuse everybody. But after it leaves the cell, the most critical piece is excretion. And I mean, we're not talking about this part yet but I'll just say, the three pieces, there's four phases to detox. But the three things that must happen for somebody to actually detoxify, and I say must with a capital MUST, is one is they have to be mobilized. You have to get them out of the storage in first place. Two is you have to go through biotransformation, which is the phase zero, one, two, and three. The third part is they have to be excluded. If they're not excreted—and this is a really important part—if it's not excreted, it can go into another cell. That conjugation reaction that can get undone, there are enzymes that will undo that conjugation. So you handed this sulphur...
Lisa:You’re backing in the shot again basically.
Dr. Bryan:Well, and then it becomes this damaging thing again, and can get stored in another tissue if it doesn't get excreted, which, incidentally, is why I have a major problem with most fasting programmes. Honestly, most weight loss programmes in sedentary people. I mean, if you take a fitness competitor...
Lisa:An athlete’s all right, they're going to sweat it out.
Dr. Bryan:They'll probably be okay. But if you take somebody who has just been storing their whole life, they've never really exercised, they get to be 45 years old. They wear a certain weight during their wedding. Now, they're 45, they don't feel sexy anymore. Maybe it's a good time to do a real weight loss programme, the chances of them flooding their system with these things is tremendous. And if there is not an active role in, especially that's the mobilization, that's the first part.
But to properly detoxify these, and more importantly, excrete these things, then it's just going to go somewhere else. And I will say there's some evidence. It's weak evidence, unfortunately, there's not a lot of research on this, but midlife weight loss might be associated with an increased risk of things like dementia and certain chronic diseases.
Lisa:I want to sit on this topic a little bit and dive into, because I had some questions when I started to understand this whole process, it really rang some alarm bells for me. For people who do like yo-yo dieting, they're losing weight, they're gaining it, they're losing weight, they're gaining it. They're actually doing a lot of damage than somebody who's just lost it. Another thing is if you're losing it slowly over time as compared to just dumping it all because you've done a juice fast that someone told you was a fantastic detox. And then you've dumped all this into the system. And this can have impacts years later, like we just mentioned, like dementia, Parkinson's disease, all of these things.
Because I was listening to one of your biochemistry or blood chemistry lectures, I can't remember which one, something to do with cardiovascular system. And you were talking about the triglyceride molecule, or whatever you call it. And how—if the legs are broken off—it’s free fatty acids get into the system and then this can clog up the system, cause insulin resistance, be a contributing factor to diabetes, all of these things. And I was like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, when I'm losing weight, which I think is a good thing for my body, I'm actually also doing some damaging things because I'm releasing these toxins or these free fatty acids or, or things that are actually causing trouble’.
So when we have a detox programme that's in the latest magazine, and even some of the scientific like Dr. Valter Longo’sFasting Mimicking Diets, which is a great—lot of research gone into it, but it's looking at the mobilization, the autophagy, the mitophagy, all of these good pieces of the puzzle, but it hasn't actually considered the excretion. It does look at the micronutrients required for phase one and two, which is fantastic.
So you've got three pillars here that you're talking about. First is mobilization, of the fats or the toxins into the bloodstream from stored places, like your fat cells. Then we've got phase one and two, where it's processed, the detox—actual detox situation. And for that, we need a whole lot of micronutrients, which I want to touch on briefly like using your selenium and your B vitamins and goodness knows what. If you don't have those—your sulphur groups. If you don't have those, you're going to have trouble. And then we need to look at how do we get this stuff out. So what can we do to support the body to do binders or I don't know what the sweating protocols or saunas or whatever?
I had one question that for me personally, I've got a mum that had a massive aneurysm four years ago, and my listeners know about my story. I've just written a book about her journey back for massive brain damage. Now she's lost 30 something kilos over this last four and a half years, when I have been rehabilitating her. She does not sweat. And she's 79 years old, she's never really sweated. She doesn't do that very well, naturally. And she also now at 79, can't exercise intensively enough to sweat. I can't put her in a sauna because here temperature regulation has gone with her brain function. I have to be really, really careful, then if I make you lose any more weight, don't I? With brain damage...
Dr. Bryan:Well, it’s a hard thing to say for sure. I mean, first of all, with all that weight loss already—I don't want to say the damages—you have no idea.
Lisa:Yes, so hopefully it was not a big dump.
Dr. Bryan:Yes, so there are some interesting human studies, looking at slow versus more rapid weight loss and how much xenobiotic levels go up, and how it affects thyroid hormone, and the basal metabolic rate and all these different things to which is their recommendation is to do slower detox, but like I said, I would recommend how about, I mean start a weight loss, I would support doing detoxification pathways while you're doing the weight loss programme so that you can get rid of these things better, and it doesn't cause damage.
Yes, so in terms of yo-yo dieting, again everybody's a little different. I can't say this happens to everyone. It depends on your diet, your lifestyle, where you live, and how much you've accumulated. I mean, some people don't have a whole lot, I would suspect. But yes, so there in fact, there is at least one study that comes to mind using mice and yo-yo dieting. And what basically it showed with them is that during periods of weight loss or catabolism, that their xenobiotic levels would go up. And then when they stopped in the hypocaloric state, they went back into a more of a hyper caloric state, that the xenobiotics that weren't excreted went somewhere else. And when I mean somewhere else, like a different tissue, so it absolutely can go from one tissue. Absolutely. Absolutely.
In fact, I wanted to tell you this. Anecdotally, I just talked to a guy—I don't know about a month ago—who used to work at a water fast detox clinic in Thailand. And he worked there for a really long time. And he's said that their people would fly to Thailand to go to this water fast detox clinic that had no business to do so. They were not healthy, it's more of a novelty. Like, ‘hey, let's go to Thailand and go to the water fast place for two weeks and do a detox, then we'll go back and live our life normally like we did before, eating a bunch of garbage’. And he said, they had no business doing it, but they would come back once or twice a year. And the same people he said would get worse, that I mean, and horrible, like liver problems or teeth were falling out, and just wrecking them. And it was fascinating to hear that story. He didn't know why.
Lisa:Yes, and I can guess why.
Dr. Bryan:Well, that's what I mean is to actually have real world experience, possibly. There's no proof of this, but to see these people that would do a one week, two weeks supervised water fast and then come live their life and then come back, and their health was worse. And I think if I had to bet I would say that's probably why. And consider, it's just a water fast. So what were they not doing, is they weren't exceeding, they weren't sweating. They didn't take any binders. They weren't doing anything. All they were doing is just water. And so, to me, they were flooding their system in a very—almost completely fasted state except for water, which is essentially fasting. Flooding their system, potentially with xenobiotics, not excreting them all and then reabsorbing them, putting them in different tissues.
Lisa:Re-depositing them in your brain or something. So you could shift the mercury molecule, for example, from your fat cell where it was pretty safe. Put it into your blood and then it get redeposited in your brain and cause real strife.
Dr. Bryan:And he hasn't contacted me yet. I think he will probably be angry. But Dr. Longo you mentioned, I mean, the guy's brilliant. He's brilliant, he’s great.
Lisa:Oh, yes, no doubt.
Dr. Bryan:And it's super, super cool what he's doing, that's a huge concern that I have, though: is that you take an average person and you put them on what's essentially like, what 300 to 500 calorie diet for a period of time, and if you don't support the biochemical—so that's mobilization for sure. If you don't support the second part, which is detoxification pathways, and then the third pick is excretion, then you're potentially making them worse longer. And again, who cares about autophagy and mitophagy if you're just redistributing these xenobiotics somewhere? And it’s a huge concern. It's a legitimate one. And I’m not saying what he's done is bad, I just think it's a piece that is missing.
Lisa:A discussion needs to be had around this.
Dr. Bryan:Yes, well, and that's true of... So, take the Gwyneth Paltrow juice test. It's the same thing. You're not binding or excreting anything. You're hypocaloric, yes. Are you improving detoxification? Well, not if you have things like celery and carrots because those might actually inhibit as it turns out. So you're not detoxing. So you're mobilizing, not detoxifying and not excreting—that's bad news, I think, long term.
Lisa:Well, let's look—talk about a couple other things that are in the phase one and two, in phase three, actually, more specifically. Some of the compounds that we consider great compounds for a lot of things, like you mentioned celery and carrots. I mean, that's what people juice with. I mean, I know I just had a celery juice for breakfast. I'm not into detox, but celery in itself is not a bad thing. But it can be a mild phase three. I believe inhibitor is in curcumin, milk thistle, some of these things that we consider detox herbs, if you like, and especially in supplement doses versus food doses can actually have the opposite of fate. Can you go into just a little bit of that, what nutrients support phase one and two and three, and which one's actually inhibited? And why is it counter-intuitive?
Dr. Bryan: Well, the counter intuitiveness of it has to do with the dose, turns out. So well, and again, I mean, as humans, good lord, we've been wrong far more times than we've been right. I mean, as a husband, I can tell you, that's true. And father, it's like a daily basis. But so what we did with milk thistle was we say, milk thistle is good for liver liver detox is there for milk thistle is good for detox. And that's not true. And that's fine. I mean, that logical progression of thought makes sense, but it's not how it pans out. So it's dose related.
So, phase one. There's a lot of talk about phase one out there. Phase one are very basic, rudimentary biochemical processes. Oxidation reduction hydrolysis, if those suck in a person, detox is not your problem. They get highlighted a lot—phase one pathways. But in the end, people will say technically you need some B vitamins for this, but you need B vitamins to run most of the basic biochemical processes in the first place. So, honestly, phase one is not a phase I worry about too much in people. As long as they're nutrient sufficient, which basically means taking a good quality multi, they're probably—and I say big probably—they're probably fine with phase one. There are things incidentally, like some of those vegetables that you mentioned.
So this is where it gets crazy. In high doses, things like celery or apples or carrots can inhibit phase one a little bit. And it's dose dependent. And so it's in the concentrated form. Well, what's concentrated form?
Lisa:Supplement
Dr. Bryan:If you juice a whole bunch of carrots and apples, yes. I mean, most people will juice more than they would eat the raw fruit or vegetable. So you might juice five or six celery sticks, three carrots, two apples, and, I don’t know, spinach, Well, turns out that all those things will probably inhibit phase one in that concentrated amount. There's nothing wrong with the fruit or the vegetable eating raw. And I will say there's nothing wrong with it, juicing it either but it's all context. I'll get to phase three in a second.
Phase two. Again, these are very basic biochemical pathways that if you can't run them properly, you have bigger problems than just detoxifying. Phase Two are very amino acid driven. So amino acids make glutathione, for example. So you need amino acids just for glutathione, you need the amino acids for the amino acid conjugation pathway. Things like acetylation, you need acetyl groups, those are pretty easy to come by in the body—sulfation, methylation. So you need certain nutrients, usually, amino acids do a pretty good job supporting that.
And problem comes in phase three. So if you consider that analogy of we use the angry guy. So if you want to get rid of the angry guy out of the body, you need to have door zero, and door three wide open. So like I mean, if you consider just like—let's say you have a line of angry people outside, all you need is a sticky note and $100 note to be able to shuffle them through, right? The problem or in the body has a fair bit of sticky notes and $100 notes, not everybody, but as long as they have sufficient micronutrients like vitamins and minerals, and as long as they're sufficient in amino acids, which again, not everybody is, they’re probably okay.
Now, again, it's going to vary with people a little bit. But you need to have those doors open. And the problem really arises, and think about this, where—this is putting our whole story that we've talked about together. If that, if the exit door is closed, you can undo. You can essentially take that $100 note back, and now, it's super angry and super angry again. And so if that third, or I'm sorry, the third phase or that exit door is closed, that's where problems arise.
And so this is where it gets super interesting to me, super interesting. Curcumin, milk thistle, green tea extract, those are extremely potent phase three inhibitors. They close that exit door. And when people question me on this, well I'll show them the papers. But I'll say, ‘Look into the literature’. Because in conventional—and this is what I say Western medicine is brilliant and thank God, they do what they do, because we're learning about things that we need to use for ourselves.
So in cancer therapy, Western medicine is trying to find out how you can keep a chemotherapeutic drug inside of a cell longer, so it can interact with cancer better. And so in medicine, they talk about these pathways, because they don't want these pathways to work because then you need a higher dose. These chemotherapeutic drugs, they don't want them to exit the body. They want them in the body, so they can act against the cancer. And so you know what researchers are using to block that phase three in cancer treatments is milk thistle, and curcumin, and they're even using green tea extract and some of those types of things. They're using those in doses that people would take as a means of keeping the chemotherapeutic drug inside of the cell longer by blocking phase three.
Lisa:So this is all about context, isn’t it, Doctor Walsh?
Dr. Walsh:It’s totally context.
Lisa:We're not saying green tea is bad for you. We're saying if you were doing a detox and you're mobilizing all these toxins, don't take green tea at that time, or curcumin, or milk thistle at that time. If you're trying to do something good in the cell, go for it.
Dr. Bryan:Well, so milk thistle, I think—and I don't have a list of 10—deserves to be on a top 10 list of herbs. Milk thistle is amazing at what it does. It's so broad and all of its mechanisms. It is truly, truly an amazing botanical.
It turns out, and one of its big roles as people know is it's hepatoprotective. I mean, it can regenerate the liver. But it turns out the reason why, and this is where it really gets cool, the reason why it's so darn hepatoprotective is it blocks its own exit out of the cell. So why can milk thistle be so awesome for liver cell, because it blocks phase three, allowing you to do its other stuff to do inside of the cell longer. So that's why it's so great as a liver herb. It's horrible as a detox herb though, because it blocks phase three. And if you don't let that angry guy out, you're going to take your $100 note back and he's going to be even more angry again.
Lisa:So we need to know what you’re after, what you wanted.
Dr. Bryan:Well, one thing and understand this too. So I came at all this research in the same—where everybody else did. I was, my mind was blown by this. My eyes were open and I thought ‘Holy cow’. And just to give you an example. Well, I'll just make my statement, and then I'll tell you why. Unless proven otherwise, I think most botanicals, most herbs, most stuff don't have a place in the detox programme because people truly don't know what its effects are.
Now I'll qualify what I just said. You can take any nutrient like quercetin been studied with, there's a bunch that have been studied. And here's the problem when it comes to detox, is the same compound like quercetin will increase detoxification in one tissue of the body, like the kidneys. It will decrease detoxification enzymes in another tissue of the body, and I'm making this up, like the liver, and it will have no change on the exact same enzymes, exact same enzymes, same quercetin, same dose, different tissue or cell will have a different effect on the same enzymes.
So what that means is so you can say well, is quercetin a detoxifier or not? You say, well, I don't know because it does in one cell it inhibits at another cell, there's no change in the third. Listen, if someone wants to use quercetin, go for it. But in what I've read, in my understanding of this until proven otherwise, I don't think quercetin deserves a place in the detox programme. And I don't care who says what or shows what, when you look at the dearth of studies in that one area on quercetin, you end up like I have no idea of what a quercetin is, does it detoxify or not? I have no idea.
Lisa:So it's analytic, isn’t it?
Dr. Bryan:Unless proven, otherwise, you don't take it. So that's true but it turns out, it's dose dependent. And so the amount of quercetin that’s been found in onions, however, is probably beneficial for detox. The amount of curcumin found in turmeric is beneficial. It's helpful. It stimulates phase three, in a high potent dose inhibits phase three. Same with green tea. Like green tea as an extract in a capsule is going to cause problems. A single cup of it, I don't think but it is context. Milk Thistle, curcumin, these things are all amazing. Apples, celery, it's all amazing. But it's all about context. If you're actively detoxifying, I don't think they have a place in a detox programme.
Lisa:So quercetin is—for people who are listening, it's basically a senolytic, isn't it? Like, it’s mental health counterpart.Yes, senescent cells and things that might be useful for that. So what we're saying is that these are all great things, but at the right time, in the right context for the right person is the key. And this is the good part.
Dr. Bryan:Quercetin is step further. So quercetin blocks histamine release from a mast cell, it also inhibits the thyroid. So...
Lisa:Wow. I got—oh my god.
Dr. Bryan: You have to look at the totality. No, that's it. So, that's fine. So somebody who has hypothyroid with allergies, maybe quercing is not the best idea. But somebody with normal thyroid and allergies and possibly it will work. And well I mean, this is if you followed my work, you know I'm against protocols, but that's why. Because like one protocol will be brilliant for one and harmful for another, they're the same protocol.
Lisa:Yes. And that's why it was so great with all their blood chemistry stuff was like trying to understand the actual physiology rather than just going one plus two equals three, and therefore this person has XYZ. And to be honest, as a health coach, it’s a lot of work trying to get that into your head. It's harder than working from protocols.
Dr. Bryan:It's a pain in the butt.
Lisa:It's giving me more work to do.
Dr Bryan:That's horrible. No, it sucks. It's horrible. But I mean, listen, no. And here's the thing: as a practitioner, you can either decide—and I don't judge, I don't care what somebody does—if you want to go down the easy route and just use protocols on people and not think much, that's totally fine. For me, it's integrity. I mean, if people come to me and want me to try to help them, I will do my due diligence in trying to do so. And knowing that I can't just give out protocols, which sucks because then you bang your head against the wall for every single patient sometimes, and it's not easy, but it's good medicine.
Lisa:Can we just touch on—before, and I know we nearly have to wrap up shortly, but thyroid? How does all of this affect the thyroid? And if you need a suggestion for the next thing that you want to bring out, I need help with thyroid. The thyroid is an epidemic sort of problem and...
Dr. Bryan:And it's not easy to fix in nutrition.
Lisa:And trying to do it without, just taking levothyroxine or eltroxin or whatever isn't fixing it for most people. A lot of people are subclinical and the toxins that we’re having and the state of our hormones, estrogenic, if we’re dominant estrogen or testosterone, it's all having effect on our thyroid and our thyroid is just so important. Have you got any words of wisdom in regards to the thyroid in all of us?
Dr. Bryan:Okay, so as it pertains to toxins, I can briefly discuss that. Here's my take on thyroid. Thyroid dysfunction is very downstream. Meaning, in my opinion, it's not usually primary, it's usually secondary to something else, whether it's inflammation—I mean, who knows what. Another thing that the practitioners must ask themselves, so they have to ask themselves this is I mean, if people don't remember anything else, just remember this, is when you observe something in the body is to ask if it's on purpose.
So for example, I did a workshop on adrenal fatigue. Maybe it's low cortisol because the body wants low cortisol, and maybe low cortisol is protecting the body, and I have a lot of evidence to suggest that it is. Maybe low thyroid… So this is a thing, is it a thyroid issue? Is it something that's causing the thyroid issue? Or is it an organic thyroid issue? And if it's organic, does the body want it to be that way? Hypertension is protective in some cases, I will tell you. Insulin resistance is beneficial from an evolutionary perspective, as is PCOS. So, these are areas that I think that medicine has wrong, but...
So when you think about quickly the physiology of the thyroid. So there's the hypothalamus, it makes TRH and then the pituitary makes TSH and thyroid makes T3, T4, and there's a conversion of T3 to T4, there's binding and there's receptors and all that. So there's probably about 10 different spots. Xenobiotics, in the literature, scientifically proven, has been shown to affect every single aspect of thyroid physiology, from the stimulation of production in the hypothalamus, TRH, TSH, thyroid hormone production inside the liver, thyroid hormone release, thyroid conversion, thyroid binding, and then eventually thyroid binding on the thyroid receptors inside of itself. Every single, every single aspect of thyroid physiology is and as I say this, because it's a potent effect of xenobiotics.
So to make it clinical, if somebody is having thyroid dysfunction, subclinical thyroid symptoms, or it's showing up in a lab, what do you do? You have to be willing to be subjective and do the questionnaire. And if they score high, say, ‘Listen, I don't know if this is going to fix it or not, but you've scored high on this, it's worth a shot’. And so then you do a few rounds of a detoxification programme over the course of a few months, six months, whatever they have, however high their score was. And then have them retested. If their thyroid rebounds, then yes. I've seen some pretty crazy things with that detox. In fact, this is more of a male thing.
But I have a patient right now that reached out. Long story, really chronic guy, probably Lyme disease, just wrecked him, like neurological wrecked him so so bad. I feel so bad for him. But because of that he developed low testosterone, low testosterone symptoms, erectile dysfunction. And it's just—he's an awesome guy. I say he's awesome because he had accepted these things well. This is in his upper 30 years old, he's not even that old. But he kind of accepted it, he’ll be like, ‘This is my life. A certain amount of erectile dysfunction is going to be my life’. And he did my detox. 10 days, for the month afterwards, totally normal. He was on fire in that area. He retested his testosterone, his testosterone went up. So I'm not saying my detox does this. But what did he do during that 10 days that was able to—he had such an amazing effect. Was it the calories? Was it the food he was eating? Was it detoxification? I don't know.
So I say all that because if somebody has symptoms, do one of these symptomatic—I'm sorry, subjective questionnaires. If you score relatively high, that's the best assessment that you can do. And I would try a few rounds of doing a detox programme. If it wasn't high, I wouldn't bark up that tree. I would consider something else, some subclinical infections or micronutrient deficiency, or genes. A lot of people like to jump on the genetic train but that's a possibility as to why, too and mental emotional.
Lisa:And how we process these things.
Dr. Bryan:Yes, mental-emotional issues, absolutely. All those things.
Lisa:Yes, and the genetic some right into the whole functional genomic stuff. And that definitely plays a part in how we process things out of the body, good or not for good or whatever, and it’s part of this thing. So okay, so if we’re looking at—so the thyroid in this case, look upstream, have you got toxin exposure? If you have, well, let's look at avoidance for starters, how can we avoid some of these, clean up your house, clean up our personal hygiene products, clean up your food, organic when possible—all of these things, then we'll look at a detox.
Now, your detox programme is a 10 day programme that you can do on—regular depending on how toxic you are. And the first—sort of six days—I think it is six days is sort of based around the fasting mimicking. So a low a low calorie diet with a good mix of macronutrients to make sure that you've got all the stuff in the body to do the phase one and phase two. And what is the second part of your detox? And how do people get this protocol if they want to do it for themselves, or practitioners listening out there, how can they get this to help with the clients?
Dr. Bryan:Yes, so our main website right now ismetabolicfitnesspro.com, that has all of our courses, including the detox course, there's a practitioner based one, which, I mean, that's the one I like I will say, but that that has all the science of all the paths because it goes deep into the science, basically, for practitioners. So they have a better understanding when they're talking to their patients, and they just know how the processes work. We have a more watered down version of it, The Walsh detox, that's available to the general public. Practitioners can buy that one, too, but it doesn't have as much science, it's a lot more watered down. But it's the same protocol, essentially. So yes, those are available metabolicfitnesspro.com.
Lisa:We’ll put the link in the show notes.
Dr. Bryan:So the second part of it—I mean, since recording that, I might do an updated version of it soon here. That whole 10 days was for somebody who has never done the detox type thing, any kind of dietary modification. So just consider the average person, you know who they are, who’s never really done much with their diet, minus trying to lose weight at some point.
For people that are more experienced with dietary modifications, that are probably a little bit healthier, going into something like this, like yourself. What I have been doing with people is we will do instead of one 10-day detox and a month, we'll do two of the latter half. So two 4 to 5 day, if that makes sense. So it's really just fasting mimicking diet. So it's five day the more intense version, but we'll do those. So first week, and third week in a month, we might do five days of that. And that's arguably the more...
Lisa:Practical
Dr. Bryan:Well, a potent part of it, too. Yes, it's more potent than the ones with the mung beans and all of the things in the protein. So there's a couple ways of doing it, but it just—again, it depends on where somebody is. We've had people with multiple chemical sensitivity, that didn't feel real well, and they had to modify their program, more binders, more foods, so they weren't as hyper caloric, longer saunas at a lower intensity. So it's not a protocol, it's principles, if that makes sense. They are modifiable depending on somebody. So somebody like yourself, I wouldn't bother doing those first six days, I would just do the last four days a couple of few times a month, if you wanted to.
Lisa:Yes, and keep processing the stuff and it really is just final on the binding. How can we help our bile, like bind up our bile, and some of the things that we can excrete, the sauna you mentioned is a great thing. Exercise and sweating and sauna. What about laxatives and diuretics and things? Are they bad? Because to help once you've got the stuff out to get it out or binders like activated charcoal, chitosan.
Dr. Bryan:So those are on the programme. Well, and here's the other thing, there's so many, I think garbage detox programmes out there that I wanted to try to make what I thought was the first truly evidence based one looking at the scientific literature. So there are binders that exist that I didn't include, because I couldn't find any literature on them like zeolite or bentonite clay. I love them. I think they're great but I couldn't find literature on it.
Things like charcoal, chitosan or ketosan, however, you want to pronounce that, fibre, soluble insoluble fibres, modified citrus, pectin, they all have some evidence behind them that they actually either increase bile excretion, or when they increase bile excretion, increase xenobiotic excretion as well, which is faster, that's what we're after.
So you ask a really good question. What, somebody’s liver health going into this? What is their bile production going into this? What is their bile going into this? Yes, all that stuff. So I've been meaning to do sort of a follow up to that programme because I have like a phase two of that where you can modify some of these things.
Lisa:For difficult patients.
Dr. Bryan:Well, yes. So kind of—I mean, it eventually puts all this stuff together. So you're doing the blood chemistry stuff you said. So like, if you determine that somebody has fatty liver, they probably don't have very good bile flow, and they may need some additional nutrients to do a detox that you don't or I don't know, or probably most of your listeners don't. There's pH comes into this as well, which is kind of a big piece when it comes to the kidneys and whether they reabsorb things or not. But just the fundamental principles, is designed to help somebody who's relatively healthy do a good detoxification programme and see results. If somebody is particularly unhealthy then there are some modifications that would need to be made.
Lisa:That would be a great update to the whole thing. Yes. For people like in mum's case, no gallbladder, liver enzymes. Not too bad, but they're not the greatest, all of those sorts of aspects. But I mean, it's going beyond today's discussion.
Dr. Walsh, thank you so much for all the work that you do in this area. It’s absolutely mind blowing. It's opened my eyes to a lot of things. I really hope people go to metabolicfitnesspro.com. Check out Dr. Walsh's detox programme, but not just his detox programme. If you are a practitioner, there is a whole lot of education stuff that you can—I have a lot of colleagues who I talk with and Dr. Walsh is a hot topic. He is a hot topic. Everybody's learning from Dr. Walsh. So people out there listening, if you want to get it from the best, if you want to know what's really in the literature, and you don't want to sift through PubMed for months on end, and do it yourself, which I really don't have time to do. Then, I'd rather get it from someone like Dr. Walsh.
So, thank you so much for your time, Dr. Walsh,
Dr. Bryan:My pleasure. Thank you.
Lisa:Thank you very much.
Dr. Bryan:You, too.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team atlisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
26 Mar 2020
Episode 143: Wellness Check and Immunity Boosting During the Corona Crisis
00:37:50
As part of our commitment to our community, my coach/business partner at Running Hot Coaching Neil Wagstaff and I are going to be releasing a whole raft of new content aimed at getting you through this coronavirus crisis.
Information aimed at boosting your immunity, keeping you fit despite the movement restrictions we are facing, and mindset and motivation advice to keep you on track and focussed and ready to take on the challenges this time will bring.
First up we have done a session immunity-boosting and doing a wellness check. Steps you can take to make sure your mind and body are ready to cope and there you will be strong to help others in your care.
If you want help with personalizing your nutrition, fitness training or help with your mindset during this time please reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com and check out our programs at www.lisatamati.com
Check out our free weekly podcast "Pushing the Limits" - a show all about everything health, fitness, biohacking, the latest breakthroughs in science, elevating human performance.https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/
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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"
Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information
ABOUT THE BOOK:
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:12) This week I have my wingman, Neil Wagstaff, who's been my coach and my business partner for well over a decade now. Today of course we're living in some pretty unusual times with the Corona virus hitting hard. It's very, very frightening and we're not sure what to expect. And last week we had a fantastic episode with dr Manson Mohamad on that subject. If you want to find out all those details about everything that you need to be aware with, with coronavirus, they make sure you check out last week's episode. But this week we turning our focus now to in positive responses to the crisis that we're facing. So immunity, boosting our immunity, lowering stress levels, and learning how to take care of yourself through the crisis is the focus of today's session. We're going to be doing a wellness checklist. We're going to be talking you through the different areas and what they will mean for you and how you can implement some easy wins into your life.
Speaker 2: (01:09) So I will now going to pass over to my mate Neil Wagstaff who sitting over and have lot North. But before I do, just a reminder, I do have my book just out. It's March last week, literally in the middle of the pandemic. Don't match a book in the middle of a pandemic. It's not a good idea, notes herself. But relentless is now available. You can get it on my website. You can also get it in bookstores throughout New Zealand and you can also get it on audio and on Amazon and it's available worldwide by the printer on demand services pretty much everywhere that you can possibly think of. So if you want to check that out, head over to my website, lisatamati.com And you can grab it there or I will put the link to my international sales page in the show notes so you can click on it if you are overseas. Right. Without further ado then over to the show. Hi guys. Lisa Tamati here and I'm here with my wingman and Neil Wagstaff and today we're going to be talking a wellness check in how to increase in boost your immunity. So if you're listening via my podcast, pushing the limits, welcome. And if you're on video or you're on Facebook listening to this, welcome again to the show. I'm Neil. How you're doing over and have a lot lighters. We had times, isn't it
Speaker 3: (02:26) In a strange way, in a strange way, Chi personally off a lot of, been part of a science fiction movie. Very bizarre. It's a weird, it's a way week. But what has worked for me this week? I'm not going to lie. There's been some anxious moments, there's been some stressful moments. But what works for me again, again is just coming back to the, the easy wins and low hanging fruit. The bits I can control and if I'm focusing on the bits I can control on feeling, I'm feeling a whole lot better.
Speaker 2: (02:53) Absolutely. And this is what we want to do with you guys. We're going to start putting out a whole lot more content online to help you cope with the stress and being stuck at home and what you can do to, to optimize your health over the this corona virus time that we are all going through as a, as a, you know, the whole humanity basically. And to keep yourself well. So Neil yeah, we'll give you a quick introduction. My name is Lisa Tamati. I'm an ultra endurance athlete for 25 years. I'm now retired and Neil was my coach for over a decade and saved my career and we've since gone into business and we have a company called running hot coaching together that helps train people and athletes, both has health coaches in as running coaches and epigenetics coaches. We try and have a 700 people all around the world. So we love what we do. We're very passionate about sharing our knowledge and we're going to share a little bit today with you. We didn't want to start new.
Speaker 3: (03:54) Let's start with a, a wellness check. My, so this is something that we use with our members at the gym, at peak fitness and health. We also use it with our athletes through running hot as well. And I was thinking of how we could, we could share some, some stuff that'd be useful to some people at this time. And I kept coming back to this lady so I just kept coming back again and again, it's simple, it's straightforward and a lot of people look at these things and think they're too simple. But if we can get control of these things through these tough times, then it's going to make a real difference to our to our bodies, our health, most importantly on mental health and wellness as well. So looking at what we want you guys and girls do at home is write these things down and we can send you a copy as well if you want.
Speaker 3: (04:37) So just let us know afterwards. We're going to write ourselves on a scale of one to 10. You can do this each day, but I suggest you do check in on a regular basis because it's going to be easy at the moment for these things to get carried away. So we're going to rate ourselves on a scale of one to ten one being that we're, we're feeling like we're in the toilet and nothing's going well. 10 being rock and roll, we're ready to part a. We are all guns blazing. Now if all of us, we want to be all guns blazing. Okay. What we're going to want to do is that's going to vary throughout the day, so I'm throughout the week as well. So if we can see where we're at, then it makes it easy for us to identify which areas we can work on. Some weeks we might be low in just a couple of things, some weeks just one, some weeks you might be loading more things, but what allows us then to do is take control and make decisions on where we're at with our own personal health and wellness. And more importantly, if we get these things up and get all schools up, guess what's going to call them as well, which is so, so important at the moment is their immunity. If we can get the community out that is so important for us as well, but also our loved ones around us. And especially our parents or grandparents as well.
Speaker 2: (05:35) Yes, very much so. They're elderly so we want you to scale one to 10 for each of these sleep, nutrition, hydration, movement, energy, body in stress and give yourself a writing a one to 10 and if you're coming out with some pretty low scores, you've got lot ones and twos and threes and pores. Then you need to sort of understand your body is not in a good place and you need to be adding in some more teaching to the areas that you've got deficit on. Now we use this, where are isolates when they're judging how hard they should be training. Because if they've got poor sleep, poor nutrition, and they were really dehydrated, used to then maybe they had five beers, then we're probably not going to go out and put them into the really hardest transition of the wake. And the reason is because we're not going to get the effect that we're after and we're actually going to cause the body more stress.
Speaker 2: (06:19) So this is a tool that we use with our isolates, but this works also with just general people going through the population and just knowing where you are on all of these neighborhoods so that you don't end up, you know, with too much stress and putting your body on to too much load at a time when we're all naturally going to be under a lot of stress. So that's the wellness check. We can seen that out to anybody who wants to reach out to us from seeing you a little spreadsheet with us on. Yeah. So make sure you've taken, you know, take note of this and actually use it.
Speaker 3: (06:49) So where I'm from there, what we're going to do guys is just take you through some of our really easy wins or low hanging fruit for each of these. So you've got some takeaways to actually work with and do. So looking at sleep, sleep is essential as we all know for ultimate recovery of the body and the mind. So it's not just the body is going to be the mind as well. If we sacrifice sleep, we are going to be putting yourself at higher risk and we begin to put in those around us and looking at how we organize our jobs, our day routine and structure, we're going to be key moving forward. We think a lot more clearly when we're well rested. So some easy tips of sleep because you are, the more stressed you are, the more stress you feel, the more important the need is to rest and recover. So our message to our athletes and our message to those that are training hard in the gym is if you are working hard, then rest hard. Okay, rude and Paul and you're gonna work hard, rest hard, even more important. Now. So if we are going hard, putting more time and effort into things, make sure we allow time for the rest. Then we're going to split rest down into three different things. I'll total rest reduced workloads and then meet on important that we've got all three of those types of rests in our lives
Speaker 3: (07:51) To ask before. Midnight is worth four hours of sleep after midnight. It's your adrenals. So if we're out of the stress load then gets a better like 10 o'clock should be the cut off. Real simply speaking, that can vary from person to person. But simple low hanging fruit is think about winding down nine o'clock and then being out lights out by 10 o'clock make a big difference to how your body's responding. Our body will follow the natural rhythm to life. So slow down, relaxes the sunsets and wa and get up. I'm ready for the days of sunrises.
Speaker 2: (08:23) We have very much Heidi and based something we Neo, we need the natural rhythms and within, you know, artificial light. One of the tricks that I've got for you there is the blue blocking glasses. I use those at nighttime. If I'm watching telly, if I'm on, have to be on the computer or anything like that, I've got my blue blocking glasses so that I don't affect the melatonin that has been produced, which is inhibited when I've got the blue light exposure at nighttime. And that can stop me going to sleep. So that's a really good quick and simple tip. They're easy to get online for 20 odd bucks. So grab those blue blocking glasses and dim your lights and try to follow the natural rhythm of the world because that's what our body developed from. And your adrenals are just so important right now and your stress levels and your hormones and getting that sleep is when your hormones are know doing their thing is when your adrenals are doing the thing. So if you're, if you're, you're burning the midnight oil and you know, a lot of us are going to have to be because we're, we're you know, stressed out with work, we're losing our jobs and that, but just don't underestimate the power of sleep is very, very important.
Speaker 3: (09:29) So physical repair journey happens between 10:00 AM I'm sorry, 10:00 PM that should be in and 2:00 AM psychological repairs will happen between 2:00 AM and 6:00 AM. So simply speaking, if you've got a high physical stress load, same him to bed at the latest. That's when you're getting your bodies recover. You've got high psychological stress and stay in bed a little bit longer in the morning. If you can't do every day, pick some days where you can, again, low hanging fruit if it doesn't work every day, pick some days where you can so you can let your voice, your body and your mind recover. Again, simple things. Look at that. It's based on good science and good facts and you all know and when you've had a good night's sleep, how much better you feel? Don't let it accumulate, so don't let the low sleep. If you've been nailing happily I L sleep and you've started letting it drop to six and a half or seven, just don't let it accumulate.
Speaker 3: (10:17) You can control it. Take this as one of the things you can control in your life and put it to the top of the priority list and reduce work load, allow you your body to take some risks, empty your bucket. We'll move on and talk about that later on the stress bucket and a bit more detail, but allow yourself some, some options to reduce and have a lower workload. Okay? Yup. So what we mean by that is sort of going, some still say that. And what we mean by that is should you a lie a lot a week of exercise, you're training hard to refreeze four weeks, you should have a lot a week of exercise as well. Okay. So is period bicep periodization. But more important now that you do LA cell, some weeks they just have an off week. I have a week where you reduce intensity, reduce loads and that applies not just to exercise to the other bits in your life as well.
Speaker 2: (11:04) Yeah. So what about the rhythms again? And of course we could break this down and go into a lot more detail for different body types and epigenetic genetic types. And all that sort of thing, but just keeping it simple for you to at the moment. It's a nice rhythm of things.
Speaker 2: (11:26) Yeah, we were on the fifth grade. Now we're on the first grade. So next one should be all about while you're trying to fix that, Neil, I'll go on to the you know, the title, the title, race one. If you can pull that one up. Number six.
Speaker 2: (11:42) Sorry guys, this one's a soul about having a little bit of me time. Now this is not being selfish. I want you guys to understand that having time for yourself, if you're a mother and you've got kids and you think, Oh, I just need to give, give, give, give, taking a little bit of time for yourself. We'll give the kids more than online because you'll be less irritated, irritable. You'll be laced short with the kids. You'll have more energy to actually cope with the whole stuff. So taking this a little bit of may, Tom isn't weakness and isn't being selfish. It's being sensible, just sensible. You need the time to heal and repair and to have time out and you need to just do things that will lower your stress levels. Now, I mean this is a sound very simple like going and having a boss, but like going and having a boss before going to sleep.
Speaker 2: (12:33) For example, changing your body temperature signals to your body that you are really getting ready for bed and actually helps you fall into a sleep. Meditation is a wonderful toe. It doesn't actually have to be just a sitting meditation or aligned meditation. Some people can do like meditating. Like I really made a tight end movement really well. But it's giving you the time away from the problems of the world, from the bloody computer, from the, the kids screaming at you. Just getting some time at, you know, like I love reading books too and I have a, usually a pile of science books this big on my, on my table. But actually just before I got asleep, I tune off all of the sciency stuff and I actually got on read a stupid novel, some crazy adventure novel because I actually don't want to be continuing the work mode at 11 at night.
Speaker 2: (13:22) I need a little bit of just some, you know me time and I need that before I power down. Now sunshine is another very important aspect here. Getting a sunshine means getting your vitamin D precursor. A new vitamin D is really, really essential for so many functions in the body. You wouldn't believe how many things that vitamin D is responsible for. Things like your calcium absorption, the strength of your muscles and your bones your mood. Of course everything is is related. A lot of it is related to vitamin D and that comes from having enough sunshine on your skin every day. So really, really important things. Anything dad they knew
Speaker 3: (14:04) Nice, but again, keep it simple guys. It's looking at low hanging fruit or some little things that you can add in and just keep just checking is the whole point of this, this discussion is, is is checking in with you yourself so that you know that if things are not feeling good, that you can add these things back in and sometimes as simple as reading a bit what Lisa said is enough to just allow your body to go, ah, thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Yup. Right, and nutrition. Now, the reason we've added this thing, guys and girls, this can put a big load on your body if it's the wrong stuff, and it really jumps out to me when I went into the supermarket yesterday to get some stuff that dinner and I saw how much of the processed food had been emptied off the shelves.
Speaker 3: (14:43) Now what worries Lisa and I about that massively as if the processed food has been emptied off the shelves and it's not actually needed. Then what lot of people were worried about we'll be doing is then using that because it's in the cupboard. So all of a sudden a good diet changes so bad though, which then adds more load and pressure on the body and creates more inflammation. So simple way, just simple advice and very basic care. But the standard diet or the standard diet, the where we're seeing with the amount of food that's been taken off the shelves is, is crap. So much crap is in your diet is more than 20% or two out of 10 foods and we need to change that. So removing poor choices from your diet, what would you say? Additional stress on your body and and start to take out the information which is going to be better for your immunity.
Speaker 3: (15:27) So don't fall into the trap of thinking, I'll stock up on a couple of extra bass, a packet food or some what pastor, what bread and things like that and go, Oh cause it's in the cupboards. I'm going to use that instead of what I'd normally, sorry, the correct carbohydrates. I'll, what breads or what flowers are what sugars? The white devils refined foods packet foods versus closer to the source. EG Apple versus Apple juice. So, and then looking at what's in the food. So read your packets, how many items are listed on it. If there's a long list of items on the foods and there's, you've bought something for just in case you need it. If there's full, the numbers, if there's a long list of stuff, don't put it in your body unless you really, really have to all this stuff. We'll just put more load on your body, which then in the, in, in the current world is gonna make a stressful situation feel even worse, cause your body's now full of stuff that is not used to.
Speaker 3: (16:19) So make, continue to make sensible choices around your, around your food. So making the change. If you're gonna want to stock up with foods and you're doing that, that's fine. Don't, there's a need. We've already been given the information. There's no need to, you know, start ordering stuff. But if you want to get some extra stuff and then make some choices that are healthier. Okay. one of our favorite books by Paul Check, how to eat, move and be healthy as a great resource and a great ones. Put them on a list and we'll take you through this information in a little bit or a lot more, a lot more detail. Okay. Yeah. And if you want to add there,
Speaker 2: (16:54) Yeah, it's just very high level stuff. But you know, when we're under stress, when we facing the coronavirus, we want our immune system in tip top condition of course that, you know, our supplements and their vitamins and all that. But we are, most of our vitamins going to be coming from and now minerals and so on. It's going to be coming from my phone. So if we're eating too much processed food, data's royally or crappy food with bad fats and so on, that's really going to put a drain on our resources and our body needs everything. It doesn't. If we do get the Corona Vos, you need everything to be able to flush it. Or if you want to stop it actually getting, then the more your immune system is working, the better you're going to have, a bit of chance you're going to have. So we could go into all the details of all of the different types of people and what you need for all of that. And if anyone wants to find out about that, you can reach out to us. We have an epigenetic program which looks at your genes and how you do it, but just as a general thing, keep away from less processed foods, cut deep fried stuff that's crappy. Vegetable oils and so on and cut the sugar. You know, if you just do that eight times out of team, you know, no one's perfect and he was not perfect. I'm not perfect, but it's all about what you do on the regular basis,
Speaker 3: (18:05) Not be the case. Remember, because Gail's food is designed to fool your body, so after you eat, you should feel satisfied. You shouldn't be craving sugar, sugary foods. Food should restore energy and improve our wellbeing and mental clarity. So if we're feeling sluggish, tired, jittery, or hyper, it's a strong song. The food we're putting in is not agreeing with us. So listen to what your body's saying. All point in the wellness check when you think about your nutrition is has it done the job? It shouldn't for me. So these again are an easy win. If we're putting stuff in that's going to make us feel sides, Cheerio hopper, then replace it. Try something else and see how it makes you feel. Because often then that it's going to cloud our judgment. It's going cloud our thought process and make things feel, feel worse than they are.
Speaker 2: (18:47) Yeah. And that decision making process, you know, when, you know, they've proven that when you have a crappy foods, you make worse decisions in life in general. So you know, like it's a really good thing to stay away from. And one of the biggest culprits I see is all the sugary soft drinks that we, you know what you see kids just pouring them down. It's like, Oh my gosh, you know, like data's really the easiest way to get into trouble really in a hurry. So the next home we've got is a, you know, hydration and water. So not so much soothing in it as drinking it
Speaker 3: (19:17) So I can, it's fun as well though. It was funny. Good point. So I didn't lace you to talk about a little bit of the exercise, but it's made me smile. Just thinking about that. So stuff you enjoy as well. Big, important part of your health with the hydration is one thing, but still doing things, the reason that you can do and you eat and then working out. Why is that? If you, if you can't do something that you really love, what's, so what's the plan B, they're still there and we still need to laugh and get those good hormones flying through our system as well. So at least go for it.
Speaker 2: (19:47) Now we'll go into that. On the exercise thing, you know, if you ask doc in isolation at the moment with a virus overview, you know, being on lockdown because you've got loved ones who need protecting. And there is lots of stuff that we can still do at home and we'll get to that in a minute. But this is some recommendations for hydrating yourself and keeping yourself really in a good tip top condition. Now why is, why is water so important, Neil, you explain it.
Speaker 3: (20:07) So it's basically the morphine is a big part of our life and keeps us, keeps us, it keeps us, keeps us moving, keeps going. It's a clean name for a porous is important. Straight in the right amount each day based on the weights. Simple guidelines there in front of you. So the simple way to work this out for those you are listening and can't see the slides is North point North three three times your kg body weight. Okay, so that will give you a rough liters. So for 60 kgs it'd be roughly two liters, 75 two and a half liters, nine kg, three liters, 105 3.5 kgs. Sorry, 3.5 liters. So you should plan to increase that if you're exercising for about around 500 meal for every hour of exercise and then an additional glass for every tea or coffee you had. So most people are walking around the hydrated.
Speaker 3: (20:56) Yeah. Most people are walking around, they hydrated. And we need to make sure that our hydration is good and that we've got what we what we need in our body. Again, use good quality water and drink regularly throughout the day between meals to treat the required amount. We shouldn't need too too much more with meals if we're chewing properly and eating properly for a digestion and not rushing off food. If you're paying those, which we see with a lot of our, our clients and athletes is that they come back and go, I've got my waters and what you recommended and now I'm paying loads. That's an indication that the water's mineral content is not high enough. So a simple win for that is adding a pinch of good quality sea salt, Himalayan pink salt, perfect into the into the water. And that will make a big big difference to how you hold onto the water as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: (21:46) Yeah. Sorry. It's electrolytes versus water. You need that right combination. So if you're just having water and you're diluting your potassium and magnesium, you know you know, it would have your mineral content, then you're going to end up with an imbalance in your electrolytes and that can cause trouble. So you need to up both of them and keep them in balance. And this is what we see, you know, during, you know, as a, as an ultra marathon runner, this is always the biggest game that you're playing when you're running, you know, a hundred K, 200 K races is, is getting that balance right and get it wrong. And you know, I've gotten the wrong with you times and nearly kicked the bucket even from a potassium deficiency for example, cause you just not holding onto the, the, the fluids let you should be or if you don't have enough sodium. So just being aware of that. If you are paying loads and not replacing the mineral content, then yeah, you need to be aware of that. If you have any specific medical conditions, same place obviously can help your doctor because that can, but this is for the general population. Okay.
Speaker 3: (22:44) Instruction and your Walter will will help as well. So not just so lemon will help. Using essential oils is good as well. So structure in the water will allow the body to hold onto it that little bit more.Looking at exercise and as we work our way down, the wellness checks the right type of movement. Exercise is important. So we still need, we know that the, the evidence is there for exercise and immunity and exercise and resilience and mental strength makes a huge, huge difference. So, but what is important to understand the exercise is still a physical stressor. So if we've already got high stress levels, will exercise help? Yes it will. As long as it's the right type of activity. So we want to encourage you to definitely be moving and exercising. But if your body, some weeks or some days it's got a high level of stress, which we'll know from your wellness check, then just change the type of activity you're doing. So we'll look at our work and university on working out, working in should create energy. So this is a type of session that you should create an injury with getting the mix of working and working out, right? That's what we want to, we want to do. So an example
Speaker 2: (23:46) Of working in session, you could perform it on a full stomach. So he's telling you already it's going to be lower intensity. It would involve some good breast control. No, my just sparks in heart rate or breathing. You'll be able to move with your breath and you should find it relaxing as well and feel light at the end. The more energized. Where are all our festivals over the years with this is feeling like it's not really a session. Yeah, me too. I have, I know you definitely have many times, but once you get the feel the benefits, then you realize that some days it's fine. If you're having to do a working in session every single day, then you know you're putting these some real risks. But you should find the a few times a week if you are switching incentive session for working in session, your overall energy throughout the week, your wellbeing, your mindset will be a whole lot better because you've allowed your body a little bit more time to recover while still doing some movement.
Speaker 2: (24:38) So what, so the types of things that we've spoken about here are things like or yoga or some just scheme stretching, some myofacial release, maybe some foam rolling. Keeping the body mobile and in the all your joints lubricated but not, you know, going for a high intensity interval training that wouldn't count as working in session. Even like meditation and deep breathing exercises as a part of this process. And the reason this is really important and this is so counter intuitive and this why I argue with new for many a year in my mind a workout was where you're sweating your asset and you puffing your ass off and you are out of brace and you are gone. You know, I mean, I was happy with myself. And, and there was a time and a place for that. Absolutely. You know, we want to get stronger and fitter and all the rest of it and get all the brain derived neurotrophic factor and all these other things that are really, really good in hunting.
Speaker 2: (25:31) It's fantastic how Eva, you need to balance that with this working in. And the more stressed you are and the more trouble you're having with your, with your body, the more uniquely leaning towards this way and not overdoing the other stuff because your hormones are involved here. And this is a very important one for ladies, right? Especially, you know, we've got some very complicated hormone sessions and you know, later on we'll, we'll get into more complicated stuff like that. But you don't want to be smashing your hormones every day. You, you won't want to be sending your cortisol through the roof because that's what you are doing. That short term when you're doing the high intensity and you need to be controlling that. If you're having a stressful life, you don't want to add more to the mix and end up with adrenal burnout and cortisol problems and that sort of thing, which will lead to more information and so on and so on and to decrease in your immune system.
Speaker 2: (26:22) So any surfing these sessions are gold for reducing inflammation. So we get, we send you some gums besides, we will post them some videos over the next week and some examples of a working session because they are just, they're really all game changers. Oh, you type channel or winning? Actually Neil, so yeah, we've got a huge YouTube channel. I'm just on the Lisa tamari. If you go on YouTube, you'll find over 500 videos on everything like this from full full documentaries right through to, you know, working in and working out and all sorts of injury prevention. And more
Speaker 3: (26:59) So I'm looking at the working out so we are designed to move and when not designed and equipped to sit in front of a computer in a car or on the couch. Okay. We're really not designed to hunt and gather, not to sit so real. Simply speaking, when you're putting together and this is what we're going to help you with over the coming weeks as well. If you can't use the gym, if you having to try and go home and exercise at home, then this is where we can help massively, but a real simple way to look at it, to start with is if you're doing some exercise that involves a squat, lunge, bend, push, pull, twist, and some sort of walking or running and you were covering. A lot of the primal movement patterns that we used to use when we were in were Hunter-gatherers. Now if you're covering those as well and you're moving through different ranges of movement, you'll be moving in this three dimensional movement. You'll be moving through all planes of motion, which means your body is going to get a good workout. It's going to get a good a good amount of exercise and also you're going to be looking after your your, every part of the body should do that so you're not just moving in one place. That makes sense.
Speaker 2: (27:58) Absolutely. Like working, having worked with my mum and people might know my story. Mom had an aneurysm and I've just released a book called relatedness about your journey back. But one of the things like, because she was a basically Bader and from for almost two years, you know, emotionally she's lost all the ability to do all these various things and getting them back. I'll tell you, as I had had, you know, I was trying to treat you the other day to do the twist, you know, the twist that's hit the music going on. She couldn't, she didn't know how the body, the hips go one way. The upper body goes the other way. So I had to teach her or these things. Again, these, we on the other hand, my dad who's 81 and doesn't have the healthiest lifestyle and try arguing with him. But anyway, but he does have a healthy lunch. He's a hot, he's a hot cool. He does have a healthy last start on that. He's gotten in old day pretty much every day. So he's been doing squatting, Pauling lifting heavy loads. He's in funny awkward positions and that makes them extremely mobile, extremely strong for an 81 year old. So even though he doesn't go to the gym and he doesn't do any of those athletes things, he is working his body and all those planes and that's what keeps him strong at 81.
Speaker 3: (29:10) Yeah, that's a perfect example when he's looking bloody good as well. So energy, it's on the wellness check as well. It's there for a reason. One of my continuous goals on a daily basis is to get out of bed like a kid on Christmas day. And you'll all know what that feeling feels like, that excitement that, that just that high energy that, Ooh, I can't wait to get up. That's what we should be. And I'd encourage all of you to strive for, strive for that as well. A lot of, a lot of us, even if we get half of that where we're going to be failing a whole lot better than we and we currently are. So check each day how much energy you got, how should you feel? Where's your expectation? Where do you want to be failing because you, with all the things we've been talking about on today's session, you can change that and then put some expectations around yourself that it doesn't have to be the norm, that that's how you feel when you get up in the morning.
Speaker 3: (30:01) It really, really doesn't set a standard and work through it. And then I know that if I lose a bit of sleep, but I'm not gonna feel like a kid on Christmas morning over. If I do focus on my sleep flux and all the things we've been talking about, good foods, good exercise and the hydration, then I'm a lot closer to running out of bed. So I'm right in the presence and that's what it should be like every day. So keep the energy tanks full and don't feel one of the best bits of advice I was given. By it's actually by a client I was working with as I was talking to him about these things and he said, do you know what makes sense to me now is that this, the building up your energy stores should be like a bank account. So don't fool. You've got to spend it all at once. What a lot of us do and go w you just go, well I'll feel great today. I'm going to go and use all this energy out and so we'll have to save a bit so that we're keeping to increasing our savings up. And then we had a bit more energy and we use a bit but always, always got surface there. So think of it like that rather than MC in the MTV account all at once.
Speaker 2: (30:56) And the way we think in the positivity and we'll be going into this in the, in the near future without they'll call producing is very much around mindset and the way you approach big challenges. We are all facing, you know, an unprecedented time. We've all got huge challenges to deal with both financially from a business perspective, from a health perspective of our loved ones. We were feeling a lot of fear and you know, none of us are immune to that but it's how we then deal and this is why this sort of information is super, super crucial. Cause if you're doing all the physical stuff then you'll be able to cope with the medial stuff a hell of a lot better. If you're going out and you're drinking a lot of alcohol misuse, praised, and if you're not exercising and you're just, you're giving up on each other's nerves cause you're trapped in the house together and all of those sorts of things and you haven't done the exercise and you're not getting the right stimulus at the right times, then that's going to access abate.
Speaker 2: (31:45) This whole process that we're all being forced into. So try and change the direction of the way your thoughts are going. Try look for the positive things from this experience that we're going, it's gonna make us reflect on who we are, the direction we're going and they will be good things that come out of this if the do right now is to protect the vulnerable in our society and that means our elderly are immune compromised. People who have had cancers or transplants or have for some reason got an immune system problem that is the ones that we are doing this for. We are not just staying home and protecting, you know like ourselves. We are doing that to protect the people on the front lines cause more we stay home the more we're going to be protecting them and also our L vulnerable hourly and so on.
Speaker 2: (32:36) Those are the ones that we had staying home for. So if we can look after ourselves and make this as a time of reflection and a time to change direction and to make us a more caring society, things of value, then something good will come out of it. And I'm really big on always finding the silver lining and every damn cloud that's come, you know, like I've just released a book called relentless and it's about the story of bringing my mum back after her aneurism. And we were left in a state where she was like hardly any how I function. And it was, I couldn't find anything in the silver lining for status. But after working with her for four years, after bringing her back after this, the discoveries that I might have along the way, and now having written the spoken, helping hundreds of other people on their journeys, they was the silver lining.
Speaker 2: (33:20) You don't always see it on day one. Okay, we're on day one right now, but there will be some silver lining things. It will be some benefits that we'll get out of this. But what we have to do right now is consolidate as a society and to protect the vulnerable that is that as absolute. So stay safe, I think that's all we've got for the day. We're going to be producing much more content. Please subscribe to our podcast. We have a poll, Costco pushing the limits and I put out a container every week home. Nia, we'll be hearing some of these episodes on there and we've also got, you know, our YouTube channel where you can reach out to us on Facebook. We're pretty easy to find at least the time of or near Wagstaff. You know, anything you want to add to before we wrap up for today?
Speaker 3: (34:03) One thing, just a, an easy one. Just to really kick in your cause. The other one, the other things you've got on the, on the list is just around stress. So really spending some time activating your parasympathetic nervous system. One of the easy ways to do that is to is to just focus on a simple box breathing technique. And one of our favorites, which we'll leave you with is, is I'm just simply doing a simple count of four where you breathe in for a count of four, you can hold for a count of four, slowly breathe out for a count of four.
Speaker 3: (34:41) Then you hold it again before you breathe in. So you're literally going through count a full and a breath in a hold, a breath out, breathe hold. Try and do that through the nose. Be much better for your personal clinic system as well. Once you get comfortable with it, you can then look at it. Increasing that up to five seconds, six seconds, go with where you're comfortable. But bringing that in as a simple way just to flip yourself into your parasympathetic system each day, which will take more stress and load off your body. A lot of us will be very sympathetic or the moments are high heart rates, high sweat rates, high breathing rates. And we need to just spend some time bringing that, bringing back back, back down.
Speaker 2: (35:17) It stops the, the cortisol and the adrenaline production and I can, you know, cause I do this many, many times that I throughout the day, as soon as I can, you know, and I'm a very adrenaline dominant person. I know from my epigenetic type that I am. So I have to like stop every, every half an hour, a couple of hours, especially when I'm doing a lot and sit there. And just do three breaks and that box pattern and immediately I can feel the cortisol drop. It really it has a benefit. So just keep practicing that and use it to your advantage to lower those stress levels so your immune system stays on fire because when those cortisol and adrenaline are high, what happens? It takes energy from your immune system running and we need that
Speaker 3: (36:00) Simple breathing. But guys, girls, thanks ladies. There's great is always talking to you. And the other thing they'll say that was, there was nothing else, but I'm going to, I've got one more thing is, is is great at all, just even connecting with you today. That social connection, it really is nice to spend some time talking with ya, with you mate. And even having these conversations today, I can feel from our body now smart a bit more. I've lost a bit more. That's good. So make sure whether that's done in person via face-time, via messenger, over it's done. Just keep it there because the social aspect as well as so important for our health,
Speaker 2: (36:33) Social distancing does not mean social disconnection.
Speaker 3: (36:37) Well said my faith. All right, let's talk soon.
Speaker 2: (36:43) If your brain is not functioning at its best and check out what the team at the light dotcom do now being like producers, photo biomodulation devices, the your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light, revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related to time issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at www.vielight.com that's V I E L I G H T .com and use the code T A M A T I at checkout to get 10% off any of their devices.
Speaker 1: (37:33) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
18 May 2017
Ep10: Sir John Kirwan with - Lisa Tamati
01:01:40
Sir John Kirwan KNZM MBE is a New Zealand rugby union coach and former player of both rugby union and rugby league.
He scored 35 tries in 63 tests for New Zealand, making him one of the highest try scorers in international rugby union history, and was part of the New Zealand team that won the first Rugby World Cup in 1987. He also played rugby league for the Auckland Warriors in their first two seasons. He is the former head coach of the Blues in Super Rugby, and the Japan and Italy national teams.
In recent years, he has spoken openly about his battles with depression and been honoured for his services to mental health.
He has written two books on depression and mental health the first "All Blacks don't cry" details his journey through depression to wellness, offering help and tools for those suffering from this debilitating illness and the second "Stand by me" was written for parents of teenagers facing mental illness issues.
Kirwan is married to Fiorella, Lady Kirwan, with three children Francesca, Niko and Luca. Kirwan speaks fluent Italian and good Japanese, a result of a playing career in Italy and coaching career in Japan.
On the show he talks with Lisa about some of the tools he uses to stay, how we need to help our athletes transition out of the sport and back into life at the end of their careers, about what greatness is to him and how to deal with failure in life and much more.
25 Jun 2020
From Prolotherapy to Ozone - Using the body's own self-healing properties to regenerate tissue in the body
00:59:52
In this interview Lisa and Dr Wayne delve deep into what Prolotherapy is and how it can be used with joint, tendon and ligament problems, what Prolozone is, what Ozone therapy is, it's mechanisms of actions and much more.
With nearly 30 years experience Dr McCarthy has used these therapies on thousands of patients and teachers other doctors and medical specialists in these therapies.
Prolotherapy is a non-invasive, cost-effective solution to many problems associated with the wear and tear of joints and back problems. Especially effective with knee and shoulder damage and lower back issues.
An injection of dextrose and lidocaine are used to perform prolotherapy. The injection is given into damaged tissue (ligaments and tendons) which causes it to inflame and then heal. In the healing process more strength is added to bony connections.
Ligaments hold joints firmly so they move in correct alignment. Tendons attach muscles to bones. Tearing of ligaments and tendons off bones causes sloppy joint movement and pain.
Prolozone involves injecting ozone into the painful or inflamed areas, similar to prolotherapy.
Once repaired non-surgically with prolotherapy, muscles can then strengthen around the joint. Once the joint is strong, it remains so unless another accidental injury occurs. Prolotherapy increases circulation and nutrients that help tissue repair itself. This collagen strengthening technique can be used for all joint injuries, old or new.
Ozone Therapy
What might it do for you? Essentially ozone restores oxygen saturation to the body's tissues. With any form of illness the oxygen levels drop and if they get depressed 40% below normal cancer is encouraged to grow. Low oxygen signals fatigue, usually becoming chronic. The oxidative (Life Force) power of the body is reduced and metabolism goes down to a less efficient level. Conversely, when the oxygen saturation is returned to normal there is a strong chance of recovery of normal physiological function i.e.: A return to better health.
Ozone therapy is unsurpassed as a method of oxygenation and is a cousin of hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
Six treatments are required to receive the ozone effect and as metabolism improves vastly resulting benefits are very long lasting.
Using the body's own inherent self-healing properties to regenerate tissue in the body.
Ancient systems of medicine such as acupuncture and manipulative medicine have tapped into this capability to varying degrees by enhancing blood flow, nerve conduction and oxygenation to areas that need to be healed. As our understanding of the body's own mechanisms for healing has matured, we have developed new techniques with a more robust healing potential.
In the field of Musculoskeletal Medicine, Prolotherapy, using a concentrated Dextrose (corn sugar) solution injected at the area requiring regeneration, can initiate the healing response. The first phase of healing is inflammation, where the blood flow to the area is increased bringing white blood cells to clean up the area and platelets with growth factors to stimulate stem cells to regenerate tissue.
The next evolution of Prolotherapy involves isolating the growth factors found in platelets and white blood cells in the blood and injecting them directly into the area to be healed. This is called Platelet Rich Plasma. Platelet Rich Plasma can be used to stimulate regeneration of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and cartilage, and it can also be used for a variety of aesthetic conditions like hair regrowth, facial regeneration and scars.
Dr.Wayne McCarthy N.D. is a Naturopathic Physician.
Wayne's background is as a practicing Naturopath in New Zealand until moving to the U.S.A in 1989, where he furthered his education and training by going to a private medical school in Oregon called National College of Naturopathic Medicine. After graduation Wayne was licensed as a primary care physician in Hawaii where he practiced for 15 years.
Wayne is registered with NZNMA, and certified by Natural Health Practitioners of New Zealand in Naturopathy, Nutrition and Herbal Medicine.
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.
**If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:13) Today, I have the wonderful Dr Wayne McCarthy, who is a Naturopathic physician primary care physician up in Whangarei in New Zealand and works at the Waipu health center. He is a specialist once again, in ozone therapy. We've done a couple of episodes on ozone, but Dr. Mccarthy uses ozone in a couple of different ways, as well as the standard practices. And he shares today a little bit about Prolozone. He also talks about prolotherapy, which is all about fixing a joint and ligament and tendon damage. So if you're struggling with an injury that you can't fix, you want to tune into this episode. We also talk about his approach to natural health and how long he's been doing ozone therapy, all the things that he's studied around the world. So a really great episode, especially off the back of last week with dr.
Speaker 2: (01:10) Tim Ewer, who I head on another integrative medical specialists. And you know, I think between the two of them, these two doctors both in New Zealand are absolutely fantastic people to be listening to and finding out about more. So I hope you enjoy this interview with dr. Wayne McCarthy. Who's given up a Sunday morning to do this with us. So I was very, very lucky. Before we hit over to dr. Wayne just want to remind you, my book relentless is now out and available. It's available in bookstores throughout New Zealand. It's also available internationally on Amazon, on audio books or the audio book platforms as a Kindle, as an ebook, pretty much you name it, it's out there. You can find it on my website at lisatamati.com. Also. It's yeah, it's been out there for a few weeks and now that we were at a COVID, if you want to just pop into your local bookstore or store, if you're in New Zealand, you can do that.
Speaker 2: (02:04) And just a reminder, too, that every couple of weeks we're holding a live webinar about epigenetics health program. This is all about utilizing your genes and understanding your genes and how to optimize your genes for your, for your optimum health, from nutrition, right through to your social environment, your work environment. This is absolutely powerful wellness program that we're using in the corporate setting. It's also very good for individuals, for athletes wanting optimum performance, as it covers off every area from your nutrition, your exercise, right through to your how your brain works, your dominant hormones and neurotransmitters, your it's, everything, everything is covered covered on this. It's a really a amazing program that we're delighted to be able to deliver your, you you can join us for that live webinar, which we're holding pretty much every second week the moment you can find out when the next one is at epigenetics.lisatamati.com. Okay. EPIGENETICS.Lisatamati.com if you want to find out anymore.
Speaker 2: (03:12) Let me know. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review because that really helps the show get exposure. And on that point, I just want to thank you all for those who have listened to have done ratings or have done reviews, because we're now ranked as one of the top 200 podcasts globally for in the health and fitness genre. So I'm really, really appreciative. It's a combination of five years of hard work, and we're really, really stoked to be in that top 200. So thank you to everyone who has done a rating and review or share this with your friends and made that happen. Now over to the show with Dr. Wayne McCarthy.
Speaker 3: (03:54) Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Fantastic to have you back again. I am sitting with a lovely day, Dr. Wayne McCarthy, who is sitting up near Whangarei who is the a founder of the Waipu natural health, and also is a doctorate, the natural environmental health clinic. Welcome to the show dr. Wayne.
Speaker 4: (04:19) Good morning, Lisa. Nice to be here with you.
Speaker 3: (04:22) It's fantastic. I've Sunday morning, no less cutting into your family time. So I really, really appreciate you coming on the show today, but we had a fantastic discussion yesterday. So I've been really, really excited to talk to dr. Wayne today and to share some of his insights and some of the work that he's doing in his clinics. Dr. Wayne, Can you give us a little bit of a background on, on who you are and what you do?
Speaker 4: (04:49) I'm in New Zealand, I started life as a natural path osteopath. I went to
Speaker 4: (04:59) Natural therapies college in Ellis Lee, and then after five years in practice, I went to America and got an opportunity to go to national college of naturopathic medicine in Portland, Oregon, where I trained and studied and also taught. And then I got licensed as a naturopathic doctor in state of Hawaii where I practiced for 15 years. Wow. so in America we call primary care doctors, but we're working as a GP would work here in New Zealand.
Speaker 4: (05:36) During that study at a national college of naturopathic medicine. I met James Hutton who was a year ahead of me as a student, but he was the understudy of dr. William Tesco. Now William Tesco was a naturopathic medical doctor. One of the first doctors to come to America from Germany. He was an ozone doctor. He wrote the first papers on bio oxidation. And I think of bio oxidation as the life force, if you want to sort of give it a lay term. And he was the understudy of Dr. Tesco. So he was telling me about ozone while I was at medical school. And then when I graduated, he taught me how to do ozone therapy. From that time forward, ozone therapy became my main therapy and I just, it's what I do with every person I treat. And that's how I got the name, dr. Ozone back then, 25 years later, I got an opportunity to go and train with in Russia.
Speaker 4: (06:39) Initially Novgorod 500 K's East of Moscow with professor oly and professor Claudia of consortia Kovar, the mother and father of those own therapy and Russia. Now, the important thing about Russia is that they've been using ozone for decades in their hospital system, across all their medical specialties, oncology, gynecology, obstetrics, neurology, dermatology, pain, medicine, burns, and many other areas, neurology. So they've had the, they've done the most research of any country in the, in the world. And I trained with them for two weeks. It was one on one and I had a, a Russian lady Eugenia, Shasta Kober. Who's my interpreter. And I'm still in touch with her. We communicate regularly. She sends me information on Russian research. I collaborate with then two years ago, I went and trained with dr. Adriana Schwarz in Honduras, but she also works out in Madrid. She's the president of the international medical ozone Federation and the secretary for the international scientific committee on ozone therapy of which I'm a member. And our mandate is to improve and update the Madrid declaration, which is the world standard on how to use ozone medically.
Speaker 3: (08:12) Fantastic. Okay. So ozone therapy my listeners have heard a little bit about ozone therapy at all, but you are, you know, dr. Ozone, as you say, in New Zealand, you've been practicing this for over 30 years.
Speaker 4: (08:27) I've been practicing for 27 years since 1993
Speaker 3: (08:33) In the law. I want to go into some of the therapies that you use and what's actually happening with the ozone. Like I know that you said to me yesterday, you're trying to get it into the mainstream and New Zealand. How, how has that looking
Speaker 4: (08:48) It's already starting to happen because we have GPS around the country starting to pick up train with us and use ozone therapy because I'm, I'm in Amer the Australasian integrated medicines association. And basically these are like-minded doctors, GPS mostly, but there are natural paths in there as well. So we're really having to greater the medical and the naturopathic through this association. And there's a lot of holistic medical doctors. And so this is sort of my clan. And if you will pick up my only naturopathic doctor in New Zealand, there might be some others, but really, I think I'm the only one just by the mere fact that nobody else has gone and trained in America where I did. Yep, exactly. Okay. So this is great because it means ozone. It is it's hopefully going to be accepted into the mainstream soon because in 12 countries where ozone has been regularized, and we believe we have all the documentation to go to our ministry of health and say, here's a new therapy.
Speaker 4: (10:00) We want you to regulate it. They would look at all the work we've done and they'd go, well, you haven't left much for us to do this already. Self-Regulated, you've done a really good job. We know, yeah, you've really done the race. Now we can start to train other people. So I've trained two natural cats that now work with me. But they've upgraded to be ozone experts. All the ozone therapies are done intravenously or by injection. So it's always needles, but it's a feel good therapy. It leaves people with an overwhelming sense of wellbeing. And the primary function of it is to saturate the body with oxygen. This will do several things. It will improve athletic performance by giving the athlete the five to 8% endurance advantage, which means that it prolongs the time of maximum anaerobic output before you hit the wall and I've worked with triathletes and the iron man in Hawaii, and I've worked with many other athletes would chop those canoeists Walker, armor, paddlers people who are doing tennis, some of our out Ines players and New Zealand and swimmers.
Speaker 4: (11:29) And of course you work with every form of illness that comes our way. We do see quite a few people that have various forms of cancers and the primary cause of cancer, doctor Otto Warburg won two Nobel prizes. And he proved that the primary cause of cancer is a lack of oxygen. The tissues, wow. Though, the respiratory enzymes have been toxified and therefore the body cannot process oxygen. So what we do is we saturate the body with oxygen, removing the prime cause of all cancers. So that's all I really want to say about that. That's the rationale we don't, we don't actually treat diseases. You support health. We treat people when we treat people and we're just pushing them toward greater health by restoring their bio oxidate of capacity in the body. As you know, the main cause of a lot of underlying the underlying cause of most chronic diseases is a chronic inflammation, which is free radical damage, ozone reverses, free, radical damage.
Speaker 4: (12:51) Wow. So that's the key point of it. And it also, so it's oxygen is three and it's we talked briefly yesterday about it being a relation of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is also increasing the amount of oxygen getting to tissues. That's right. So hyperbaric oxygen, H202, which is hydrogen peroxide, vitamin C therapy, high dose intravenous and ozone therapy, intravenous they're all in a family called bio oxidate of therapies and hyperbaric oxygen. We use it it, that is better for central nervous system injuries, brain damaged spinal cord ozone is better on infection and improving circulation. So they have some overlap. I've chosen to do exclusively ozone therapy for the fact that it's cheaper to administer. It's a lot more readily available and it's a lot more versatile because I can treat the blood with it, but I can also inject it into joints or I can inject it into pain and pain is shortage of oxygen in the body.
Speaker 4: (14:10) What we've learned as ozone therapists, where we inject those own pain will go really. So I can just sort of go into a little bit of that on the sports or athletics side, I feel like we'll sort of go, well, I'll start with the ozone therapy. So where does pain in the muscles? We can inject those zone and saturate those tissues with oxygen that will remove the lactic acid. And the athletes will have a faster recovery from their training and we saturate the blood and the body so that the is processing oxygen much more efficiently, which gives us a higher prolong, physical energy output during sports, the international Olympic committee. I have read their documentation on blood doping and, and how we can't cheat. You know, we're not, we're not supposed to cheat. So their ruling basically is ozone could be used for a medical purpose with an athlete during times when they're training.
Speaker 4: (15:24) Yes, that's legal to treat an athlete, just cry to a competition would be considered cheating a bit. Not that you could really pick it up, cause I don't think it's terrible in the body. However, they could see that the the saturation of oxygen and their blood would be very high. It would be a bit like a altitude training. Yes. Blood doping or altitude training. It has a very similar effect, which is athletes could do ozone therapy and their training periods to recover from training. But we just wouldn't do it within sort of three or four days before an athletic event. And no one can hear enough. Okay. So how does it increase? Like what is the mechanism by which it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells. Now I understand from the Realogy, Oh, the red blood cell increases the, what would you call it? The pivot, the flexibility of, of the red blood cell is that correct?
Speaker 4: (16:33) Makes the red cells more pliable, more slippery, more flexible. So they can squeeze through the small cappelary and get to even the hardest to reach tissues. So if you've got damaged or inflamed tissues yeah, that's right. Any kind of injury where you've got inflammation, swelling, pain. Mmm. We save limbs from amputation with those own. Wow. Because we restore a good blood flow. Also the red cell, we increase a enzyme on the red cell called two, three di phospho glycerides two to three DPG. We call it what that does is it weakens the bond between hemoglobin and oxygen. What this means is blood flowing through the lungs will still pick up at school compliment of oxygen, but it will release it to the tissues a lot more easily. It's like a, it's like a wind that's blowing into the tissues rather than having to pull the oxygen off the red cell with osmosis, trying to use energy to tug it off.
Speaker 4: (17:48) The blood's just good sort of way more freely. And in this way we saturate the body with oxygen. I believe it's the only way of doing it. Unless you have a hyperbaric chamber and this would be a really powerful combination I can see. So it's, it's pushing, it's basically pushing the oxygen into the tissues as opposed to it having to be pulled. Now, like as someone like that, I'm an athlete. Mmm. I've had problems constantly with anemia and not enough red blood cells. Mmm. And getting enough oxygen carrying capacity to work the muscles. Does it help with that? Or is that, it's just that that's an independent thing because number of blood cells, no, I'll speak to that issue, Lisa, because we see people that are me anemic often kicks, you know, they're wasting away. Yep. They've got bone marrow suppression, not producing enough red cells or white cells or just whatever it might be.
Speaker 4: (18:46) But when we treat with the, when we treat the blood where those zone, where rejuvenating the bone marrow. Wow. And so the bone marrow starts to produce, what's called super gifted red cells. And that's actually the scientific term, super gifted. So real knife gifted, dr. Bilio Bachi Theo CCI. He wrote the book ozone, a new medical drug. And I work with dr. Adriana Schwarz, who was Dr. Bachi Sort of Lieutenant right hand person, you know, his protege really. And she's now leading the charge around the world, promoting ozone therapy, God gives excellent courses. Where was I going with this? You were talking about the Realogy and the, the, the really bad cells, the red blood cells coming out of the bone marrow are called super gifted, which means they're more resistant to oxidative stress and they're better at delivering oxygen around the body.
Speaker 4: (19:53) So even when we've stopped and ozone, even though we've done a course of, let's say six to eight ozone therapies, let's say we're treating a person for a condition after six to eight ozone therapies. We've usually established a healthy bone marrow production of red cells overcome anemia. Wow. And the person is starting to feel a lot more energetic and the overnights will last for six months in the body. So they just have to realize ozone is a very reactive molecule. So when we're treating blood, the ozone has reacted with the red cell within nanoseconds, it's gone, it's undetectable and it becomes a nose annoyed. It becomes a nose denied, which is a weaker form of ozone. Or we have a it's more durable and they last six months, wow. Are there for after we finished the course of those own therapy, the patient basically to put it sort of bluntly gets their money's worth during the six to eight treatments. Cause they feel great. And their blood work's usually improving. However, over the next six months, they will be continued improvements even though we've stopped the treatment because the theology of the body has improved. We've blown all the cobwebs out of the bio oxidate of pathways or the hundreds of enzymatic pathways in the body, such that the biochemistry is now working perfectly or optimally. And remember oxygen is the primary, primary nutrients for optimum health. Absolutely.
Speaker 4: (21:42) It's used at every step of every chemical reaction in the body. And we see that the underlying reason for chronic illness is the body is not processing oxygen.
Speaker 3: (21:56) It's just what you see. And this isn't, Oh, well, I'll just take a big, deep breath of air. And then there I go, I've got my oxygen back. It's a little bit more complicated than that. Isn't it?
Speaker 4: (22:06) No, not really. I'd say that people breathe easier. They feel normal again, and they've recovered a healthy metabolism.
Speaker 3: (22:14) But when I say like we don't take my SPO two sets here at senior level, I'm at 98, 99%. So I'm like, Oh, well my oxygen's okay. I don't need extra oxygen support, but I know with like with hyperbaric, I can get a heck of a lot more like up to 12 times the amount of oxygen and the right and the right.
Speaker 4: (22:37) Yeah. So what's happening there. Lisa is, you're measuring the SPO2 of the blood. You're measuring the oxygen saturation of the red cells and the blood. And they may be 98 or 99%. However, when we treat somebody we'll often see that 98 or 99% straight after the treatment has dropped down to 95 or 93%, where's all the oxygen gone. We've just poured it into the blood. Where's it gone?
Speaker 4: (23:11) Well, it's absorbed into the tissues of the body that were desperate for it. And that were low in oxygen. And it's this way that we saturate then very quickly that oxygen level return back up to 99. We know the course of ozone treatment is complete. When a patient comes in they're 98 or 99%, we treat them and the blood is still 98 or 99 cent. It didn't drop. Therefore that tells us the body is saturated. Blood is saturated. They now have what we call the effect and they will stay self saturated at a very optimal level for a very long time.
Speaker 3: (23:53) Wow. So if, if I want to, you know, like I'm definitely coming to see you, doc, Dwayne, I'm going to bring my mum. Then we're going to get some treatments as soon as I can get up to away. It's a long way away. But w H w over what period of time would, would, it would a person who's traveling to see you? How many, like the six to eight is required? How many do they need sort of back the team they get back to back.
Speaker 4: (24:19) So over a period, what we do, people that come from South Ireland or Australia or Singapore or overseas, we get people from everywhere. We ask them to come and stay in the Waipu area, and then we'll treat them nearly every day for about a week. Wow. Okay, great. Yup. And we see a lot of chronic conditions where everything else basically is filed. And so therefore we treat people every day. We start with a very low dose of ozone because we're working in millions of a gram. We work between zero and 80 micrograms, which is zero to 80 millions of a gram of Bozon middle of, of oxygen ozone and the syringe. So we're working with micro dosages, but we've got equipment that we can dial up. Yep. 1000000Th of a gram.
Speaker 4: (25:16) And so we can do one or two or three or up to 80. So we start with very low concentrations. And over the course of the treatment, we build it up to a maximum. So we might go up to maximum for us would be 80 micrograms. And then we drop it off again, the last several treatments back down to about 20 micrograms. So we vary the concentration and the dose in this way, we will, we will be constantly building up the antioxidant capacity or the antioxidant reserve capacity in the body so that that body can now tolerate a higher level of ozone. And so we can build the dose up like that. And that's how we, that's how we pull people up very quickly because we keep increasing their antioxidant capacity. As we increase the dose of those zones, then we drop down at the end, but we leave them with a seriously improved antioxidant capacity, which means we leave them with a permanent or very longterm ability to overcome chronic oxidative stress and or free radical damage.
Speaker 3: (26:26) Okay. So then, then if you wanted to stick, say other oxidative therapies or vitamin C infusions or other things that would have more of an effect, or even even supplementation with antioxidants or good food would have a better effect on the body.
Speaker 4: (26:40) So we do do that at Northland environmental health Center where I work with Damien Wojciech and we do high dose vitamin C therapy there, he goes up to 200 grams. Wow. And he does culation therapy and high dose vitamin C therapy as well as being a general practitioner. So collation therapy, some patients come in and they have, you know, vitamin C one day ozone the next vitamin C ozone like that. Wow. Yup. Yup. That's a very good protocol. Fantastic. And he does collation therapy, which is heavy metal detox thing. So I'm hoping I can get him on the podcast as well. That would be fabulous. He's a, that's an area that I think a lot of us need to understand as well. The heavy metal detoxing. Yeah. Dr. Wayne. I wanted to pivot a little bit and go into prolotherapy. We discussed prolotherapy and I was really excited to hear about this yesterday.
Speaker 4: (27:42) There's something I haven't really being aware of. Can you explain what prolotherapy is? Okay. So we're leaving ozone therapy. Now ozone is for general health improved performance of our bodies. And just before we do leave ozone, go back to it a little bit, but we leave the topic and we're going to prolotherapy, which is proliferance therapy. This is now musculoskeletal. We look, we're talking now about injuries, physical injuries to the joints. Fabulous. What were you gonna say? I was just going to say with the ozone, cause we, we haven't touched on the, the they at home remedies, but we have talked about them in the past. I'd like to address this issue because it's an important one. Two years ago, we formed the ozone therapy association of New Zealand and we're taking applications now. And mostly for doctors we have some nurses, some natural paths.
Speaker 4: (28:53) But we've also opened it up because we know that there's a lot of people in New Zealand who are practicing those own using what we call lay methods. You use that term it's respectfully used and they're doing all kinds of variations. There can be insufflation of the colon, vaginal insufflation air, insufflation cupping, limb bagging, whole body bagging. There's the hocket, which is the ozone steam sauna. Hmm. Which is actually a very good treatment. And ozone can be used in facial treatments and for beauty therapy with beauty therapists. So what we're looking to do is to regularize the practice of ozone and New Zealand so that these can all have access to a professional body, guide them on safe and effective methods to use at whatever level they're trained. We're inclusive, include everyone that's doing ozone. So that patients, athletes, the interested people who want those zone, I can get it throughout New Zealand, just depending on what their needs might be.
Speaker 4: (30:09) So quite often what will happen is people will come to us. We'll do the intravenous methods. And then where do you live? Right. You're in Palmerston North. Okay. So let's see, who do we have in Palmerston North? Well, we have people using cockpit, which is the ozone steam cabinet, and we have people doing installations. And so on where the ozone gas is put either into the rectum or the colon very simple, safe, easy to use method or vaginally or other topical way, or you should make ozone oil for rubbing on the skin for dermatological conditions. You can make those, the naked water. You can breathe it. Yep. We also use ozone generators that we get from Kim sex and violence.
Speaker 4: (30:57) She provides really nice equipment that we can use for ozonating the clinic meeting, any building remove smells or toxic odors and that sort of thing. And so when we were gearing up for the recent epidemic, yes, we were. Ozonating our doctors and nurses and our staff. I was receiving intravenous vitamin C. This is for our protection. And the clinics were being ozonated every morning at 3:00 AM automatically. Yep. With Kim's can Sexton's machines. Fantastic. And therefore we knew we were coming into a sanitized environment and then we treated one suspect that COVID patient. And then we saturated that room with those own immediately afterwards, it was off clinic. It was outside in the carport, the old sauna room. And so we knew that room was now sanitized. So if we had another COVID patient, we'd be able to go into that room, be sanitized. We were safe wearing our PPE, but we can deliver the treatment.
Speaker 4: (32:03) Fantastic. And we will get up for that. So, and this has been like, just to briefly touch on the Corona situation. There is now proven studies coming out of Spain. The ozone is affecting the client of ours. Yes. There have been clinical trials in China and Spain and the conclusion at the moment. It hasn't all been gone into print yet. I don't think we ever, because we're working with doc date around and Schwartz, she was on the front lines and Spain treating COVID and the reports coming back, or that ozone was effective phenomenally. And what that meant was patients were recovering within 24 to 48 hours after one to two ozone treatments, they were fully recovering. And I think 98% of the patients that were in serious enough conditions that they were going to be put on ventilators. 98% of them did not need to have ventilation.
Speaker 4: (33:06) Wow. Which is a good thing because nine out of 10 people who get ventilated die. Yeah. It's not really an effective therapy for COVID, but ozone proved to be very effective. We know this because we've been treating all viral conditions since since day one, really a hundred years with it's a hundred years with research and ozone. Now I have to say, it's not the only thing that will do that. High dose vitamin C will do that. I've heard an India homeopathy was very effective. And if you read the journal of the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, I don't know if you know of that, but the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, there's lots of articles in there on other useful natural therapies. And they all work pretty good. So actually there's a plethora of effective treatments that we can use against this horrible thing. That's why we weren't afraid to treat people because we knew we were safe.
Speaker 3: (34:13) Yup. Yup. And I had dr. Rob dr. Rowan on last week and it's talking about Ebola and his getting shut down, unfortunately. But
Speaker 4: (34:26) That's right. He went to him and Howard Robbins stopped. The Rowans went to Sierra Leoni and they were invited there by the minister of health. They treated doctors that had got Ebola. Some of them opted for the ozone, all the ones that are all the ones that said yes to ozone therapy, survive all the ones that denied it and said, no, I don't want it. They all died.
Speaker 3: (34:53) And then he was shut down. Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: (34:55) When he got shot down, you can't be using effective therapy.
Speaker 3: (34:58) No, it might mitigate the drug sales. We can't have that comment. Right. Moving right along. Let's talk about therapies, prolotherapy. Cause this is a very,
Speaker 4: (35:14) Yeah. Sorry. I don't want to confuse everyone. So everyone on the side. Yup. We're on a different topic. We're now looking at joint pain. I'm very excited about Prolotherapy because it will effectively treat all musculoskeletal injuries. It will, it is an effective treatment for all sporting injuries. And it's permanent. This is amazing when you've done product therapy, you'll no longer have knee pain, back pain. Retruding disc pain, low back pain, ankle, elbow, rotator cuff, you know, anything like that, anything where the ligaments tendons are involved in the is involved. That's right. So let's just talk about knees. Cause we see a lot of those. So what we do is somebody comes in, they've had a knee injury, the body is healed, but the injury doesn't go away. It keeps flaring up when we strain that joint. And it's because the ligaments and all the tendons or the cartilage have thinned, you know, if you could imagine stretching a thick, rubber band over a rock and then just tapping it with something sharp or happen, then that rubber will just split.
Speaker 4: (36:36) It'll still be in tech, but not as strong. Think of your ligaments like that. Now you've got a little bit of a slop in the joint and that's what causes pain. And it's what grinds away the cartilage. So what we can do now is we can do prolotherapy, which is proliferant therapy. And we inject a thick solution of dextrose. So it's a sugar, but it's hypertonic, which means it's extra thick, especially compared to the body fluids. So when we inject that into a ligament, it will stimulate the fibroblasts to create more ligament. Yep. What that means is we thicken and then shorten and tighten that ligament that returns the joint back into its normal alignment. Cause that's what the ligaments do. They hold the joints in the alignment for the movement that joint has to me. Yep. And so we had this week or Lex ligaments, they've stretched, they've torn off the bone partially and it's always easy to find.
Speaker 4: (37:47) You can just poke on them. They do it. And people jump you inject bet spot. And what will happen is new ligament will grow over a three week period and return 50 to 80% of the strength. Wow. Then we need to repeat it a month later. Again, you'll get 50 to 80% improvement. So after generally two or three treatments, we've got a hundred percent improvement. Wow. At that point it's permanent and you'd no longer have that injury. You no longer have a weakness there. Your mind can let go of the doubt of your ability to use that learning in a maximum athletic, competitive sort of attitude. So you get your confidence back and your athletic performance is not hindered by chronic injuries. And so we treat a lot of athletes and we keep the top people in the game and young, young athletes sometimes in their teens, cause we work with some calm, competitive swimmers and they, you know, they pushing their bodies to the max, pushing the limits. As you say, they get these tears. Now that would, that would slow the down their training. And of course, if you have a week off training, it takes three weeks to get back to where you were, where you had the injury. So you lose five or six weeks really out of your, out of your schedule with product therapy, we can keep those athletes performing without pain. And this is something so simple as, as dextrose.
Speaker 3: (39:30) This is so is this like reconstructive therapy? I had a,
Speaker 4: (39:34) Yeah, yeah. It's called injection reconstruction therapy. Cause I had a,
Speaker 3: (39:41) A boyfriend back in my early twenties who had a very bad ankle injury and he had to go to America for, we construct a therapy. It was called
Speaker 4: (39:50) Yes. Will be injection reconstruction therapy probably mean it is an American technique. Yep, yep. I did learn it there. Yup.
Speaker 3: (40:00) And the body's own reaction and info. This is where information is so interesting. Isn't it? Because inflammation, when we, when we cause an injury to the site we've deliberately actually causing and introducing something that's gonna irritate and cause injury. And it sends the body's a body starts to send fiber blast to actually make it stronger. So we're using a game just like with the ozone and with hyperbaric, we're using the body's own resources at the end of this. Right.
Speaker 4: (40:27) Which is where natural path. So we're, we're always working with the body's own natural healing abilities. And with those own and product therapy, we feel like we can get maximum advantage there. Yup. So we also get a lot of patients often in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, even eighties and nineties who have health conditions and the generative joints it's often called osteoarthritis, which I believe most people think if they're told they have osteoarthritis, they get this idea in their mind that it's something to do with their bones. Yes. Is that your take on that? Yeah. I would say it's inflammation.
Speaker 4: (41:19) Yeah. Most people would say it's bones. They think it's bones and we think we're bones as well. It's my bones, they're old and they're down and so on and nothing really too much you can do for bones. Well, we, we don't take that point of view. We see osteoarthritis as joint inflammation, so it'll always be the soft tissue, the ligaments, the cartilage and the tin. And we can repair all of those now. Yeah. So by injecting product therapy into a knee joint, for example, we can reconstitute the cartilage. And so we take people with bone on bone. Wow. And we can, we can thicken that Cartlidge enough that it takes the pain away and on x-ray we'll see an increase in the lower back, you know, like a lot of us, me included, I've got like four different set of basically go on by nonbinary, very close to being bone on bone.
Speaker 4: (42:17) Okay. So I'll come at this from two angles. Number one, where you've got a bulging disc, the surgeons have told us, and we've known this since the 1950s, is that the ligaments on the posterior aspect of the vertebra or the vertebrae, you mind those posterial ligaments, the inter spinus and supraspinous ligament, usually a weak and stretched. And so one of the vertebra has moved forward slightly and it's put pressure on the disc and pushed it out, all that space in between the, when a disc protrudes, the chances are that it might impinge on one of the major nerves coming out of your back and going either down your bottom or to your internal organs. So what we do there is we prolotherapy the ligaments on the backbone that we'll tighten those up and it'll pull that vertebra back into its correct alignment, thereby taking pressure off the bulging disc.
Speaker 4: (43:31) Wow. Then we have two ways that we can treat that bulging disc. We can either inject those zone down the spine in the muscles, running down the spine as close to the disc, as we did go and inject ozone, it only takes a few minutes. It's 98% effective for joints for bulging disc 98% effective. That's where you expect to win with bulging discs every time it's insane. And sometimes we can go in through the quarter, which is a little opening at the base of the sacrum. And it allows us to go into the spinal cord. I know this sounds risky, but actually it's a very safe procedure and we can inject those own into the quarter Aquinas. Which thing goes, the ozone travels up the spine to about thoracic that are bred number 10.
Speaker 4: (44:36) Mmm. Which means it travels all the way up the lumbar spine and into the first few discs of the thoracic spine is where the ribs start and 98% effective for reducing bulging discs. So we prevent a lot of surgeries.
Speaker 3: (44:55) This is what I mean, this is what,
Speaker 3: (44:59) Surprises me that, you know, this isn't more known and it isn't out there. And I did know of this 20, like I said, 20, 30 years ago, but this was an option and I've never seen it come back or, you know, proliferate and then people know about prolotherapy and certainly not Prolozone this is good. This is definitely going to help people avoid having to have surgery. And, and, and you'd think this would be well, let's try this first. It would be a great approach. Why isn't this right throughout everywhere? Why, why isn't every doctor offering this or is it a very specialized difficult thing?
Speaker 4: (45:36) You know, I can only relate to it in terms of my own personal history. You know, I went and trained in Oregon and I learned things that are not taught here in New Zealand. One of them was the other one product therapy and actually put product therapy in its basic form was actually taught to me by a osteopathic surgeon. I'm just trying to think of his name now. I'll dr. Wilson. I think it was, he was a Harley street physician. He was doing it back in the day. And so we learned some of that often in, there was a famous New Zealand doctor called dr. Only who went and did product therapy and he was doing it in Mexico. So a lot of Americans would go down to Mexico. A lot of Gridiron athletes would get prolotherapy injections. So I heard about him and it turns out he was in New Zealand. Then when I came back 14 years ago to New Zealand, I trained with dr. Ken or
Speaker 4: (46:45) Which he dr. Ken or at that time was I think, 92 years old, gosh, and still practicing and Remuera. Wow. And and I still liaise with Fraser Berlin, who was his nephew and doctor, or he was sort of a phrase, a Burling was dr. All's sort of protege if you will. And so he treats a phrase that treats a lot of people that have, and I always get this name wrong, but yeah. Disease, which is a, I think I've pronounced that. Right. It's an odd one. So sometimes I mispronounce it. Anyway that's a generalized disease where ligaments just sort of dissolve. So it's a serious condition. There's about eight or 900 people in New Zealand. Well, he's treating all of them with prolotherapy and it's the best thing they've ever had. So he's another doctor, great work there with prolotherapy. He uses stronger prolotherapy agents than I do.
Speaker 4: (47:55) He uses if the NOLA mean and Tetra or sulfate, I believe which is a stronger tightening agent, but you know, we're natural paths. We like to stay with the more natural methods I have used other substances like fish oils, sodium moral weights. You can use those in eyes, blood, you can use vitamin B 12, you can do strong ozone and do the prolotherapy with strong ozone. That's what they call pro Prolozone. But I use dextrose, I use dextrose and I treat the ligaments and then we inject those own around them. And we usually put ozone into the, into the joint. Wow, this is this is incredible. And I think you probably going to be inundated with people wanting to come and see you because it got to be I didn't have a life outside of, and so, you know, I had to train other people.
Speaker 4: (48:57) Yeah. I could have time to smell the roses or, and buy things. Exactly. Cause yeah, I mean, you're obviously very, very passionate about helping people and getting the most out of your time. And I mean like just, just you giving up your Sunday morning and spending an hour with me yesterday too on the phone, just so's what sort of a person I had dedicated you are to, to this. And I think that that's just absolutely fantastic. And to have someone with this sort of knowledge and background, a very different approach to what we're perhaps used to seeing here is exciting for me because I can see this is great changes happening. And Amer I think is going to be the, the association for integrative medicine, I think is going to be a fantastic thing. I'm, I'm trying to I want him to become a member.
Speaker 4: (49:53) I think it's a, that's the things that are coming down the line now. Pretty exciting aren't they? Oh, they are. And what's happening is doctors and therapists sort of the lines of demarcation are breaking down. Yes. Because it becomes more, not about the doctor. Well, the practitioner it's really about the patient and what are we going to do to help the patient. Yep. And that's because we're all coming from that angle. Yep. We just always looking to, with people of conscience and we're doing the best work we can to recover the health of our population. We use all methods that we think can work and ozone and prolotherapy have enough scientific research behind them. We, we, we can explain in detail exactly why they do work. Yep. And this is, this is just brilliant. And so critics of which, you know, usually I just people that don't know, they just don't know about it.
Speaker 4: (50:54) We've been, we've had critics. Mmm. Yeah. We've had mid safe and ministry of health. Everyone's investigated us. And yeah, we provided them with dr. Work, you know, we've provided the scientific literature. Yup. That proves what we're doing is safe, efficient, effective. And and this isn't like, this is really become a family is critical and many of them become active supporters. So we can turn a critic into an active supporter just through education. Gosh, that would be great because I do, I do find in the, you know, the, the straight laced allopathic medicine is still so blinkered. Certainly in my experience and I can say this cause I'm a non-licensed nonmedical professional. It has been very, very frustrating in my own, you know, with my own family's health with my mom's journey, for example. And, and I, and this is one of the reasons why I do the show because I want to create change in movement. And it's not all about pharma pharmacology. It's not all about just surgery. Those are great. And let's look at those, but let's look at the other sides of the coin in trying to connect fantastic people and share this education worth the public. I mean, last week I had Dr. Tim Ewer.
Speaker 4: (52:23) I know he's fantastic. And he was on the show last week. And again, he too has had, you know, I know issues okay. The, the, the approaches that he takes, I mean, there's a reason why there's such a mess of waiting lists. And so many people wanting to see people like you because it's not being offered. Unfortunately, you know, dr. Terms down, down South, you're way up North, it's hard for a lot of people. If this was this sort of thing was available. And every time we'd have a lot less people, we would, and we'd save our country, billions in healthcare costs, but really you'd have a happier population being able to work to their full potential rather than have their abilities curtailed because of pain. Really. you asked me why aren't more doctors doing it. I think what's happened is ligaments and tendons have really just basically, I'm going to use the word overlooked.
Speaker 4: (53:24) I think doctors are really just overlooked. They'll treat organs and muscles and such but ligaments, well, what, what are you going to do for ligaments? Well, we don't, you can't do anything for ligaments. So we won't put too much attention there cause we can't do anything for it. Yup. Yup. Well, the gap that is the gap in the system where we've come in with product therapy, that's our specialty. We treat ligaments, but all chronic injuries are ligament based. And so our typical patient has been to acupuncturist, osteopath, chiropractor, orthopedic surgeon, GP, soft tissue therapists, CMA, if they've done everything. And when we start to hear that history, it confirms for us, this is great. It's telling us it's a ligament problem. Or yep. Then when we investigate, by the way, all those therapies are very helpful. But if they don't resolve the issue, we know it's a ligament problem.
Speaker 4: (54:26) So then we do our injections and the pain goes away. People recover the function of their alum and they ask, how come I never heard about this before? How come no one's ever told me about this? And I said, but we have told you about it. And now we've treated you, what's the issue. You know, people find things when they look for them, but this is, I just wish it was, you know, and this is why the show's important. And this will have a small portion of people that were here at, and hopefully the people that go come to you will also share their experiences, but it's a very slow process to get it out to the, the 98% of other people who are unfortunately unaware of it. I mean, yeah, deep into all of this sort of stuff. Zealand, we only have what, two degrees of separation here.
Speaker 4: (55:18) So the work that I'm doing, I know is sprayed right throughout New Zealand, because lots and lots and lots of people have now heard about it. So I've been doing it for 14 years here. And so within New Zealand, most people that have these types of problems, my, my past patients usually we'll tell them to come and they have at least have a look at this therapy. And so I think we have New Zealand pretty well covered. Yeah. This show maybe more people might even think about prolotherapy is that yes, it's needles. Yes. It's injections, but you know what? It only takes a minute or two. But when I start working on a joint within a minute or three, I'm usually completely finished with that area. Fantastic. And then they've got lifelong strength back and it's, you know, $300. Yeah. As opposed to a surgery or continual care that costs over years, many thousands of dollars and especially avoidance surgeries, which can be very expensive.
Speaker 4: (56:31) We prevent a lot of knee replacements. We get people that have had knee replacements or joint replacements where it hasn't worked perfectly. They're still in pain. So, you know, you hear, you do hear a lot of horror stories, but I also hear a lot of people that have had joint replacement that they're very happy with. So I'm not sort of a critical of it, but if you've had a joint replacement, you're still in pain consider product therapy because he taught me. And so the doctor can, or that we can do product therapy around a joint replacement and it still works very, very well surprisingly, but it does.
Speaker 3: (57:12) Yep. Fantastic. I mean, I, it makes sense to me. You know, so I think, you know, dr. Wayne we've covered quite a lot of territory today. We we've done, I was on therapy, a little bit of the background, what it's doing now, how it works, we've gone into prolotherapy and even into Prolozone therapy.
Speaker 4: (57:32) Yeah. Prolozone is doing prolotherapy, but just using strong ozone irritating and you just inject the gas. Cause I was owns always a guest. We inject strong ozone into the ligament using the product therapy, needling technique. Mmm. Because just the needle itself going in and out through the ligament creates the ligament, the bikings use fish phones and they would just prolotherapy a ligament with fishbone. Oh, sounds terrific. Shot. And it would create new ligament by us doing a little injection at the end of it. We of course maximize the effect. Mmm.
Speaker 3: (58:13) Well, if you think about it, anything that causes a rotation, the body seems more stuff there to fix it.
Speaker 3: (58:21) So dr. Wayne, I want to say thank you very, very much for your time today. I really appreciate it on a Sunday morning. We can people find you and we're, you know, where's the best place to connect with you and come and see you.
Speaker 4: (58:34) You can look up waipu natural health, waipu natural health. So we're in Northland or they can look up dr. Ozone doc, T O R O Z one, So doctorozone1@gmail.com contact the Northland environmental health center in camo. And we do all these therapies there.
Speaker 3: (59:05) Fantastic. And I would love an introduction to dr. Damien Wojciech at some stage. That would be really fantastic.
Speaker 4: (59:13) I'll share with them that while I did this podcast. Yeah. And I can put you in touch with them.
Speaker 3: (59:18) Sounds brilliant. Dr. Wayne, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate the work, the passion, the education that you've invested in all of this and bringing this to New Zealand that's really, really appreciate it. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for the opportunity of sharing it with our people. Oh, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: (59:36) That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
01 Jul 2021
Redefining the Meaning of ‘Adventurer’ with Dean Stott
01:16:37
Have you ever wondered what it must feel like to be a world record holder?
It may seem like their experiences are so different from yours, but you’ll be surprised with how alike they are to you. They may share the same hobbies or be in the same industry as you before they made their record. Or they may have faced the same struggles you're currently confronting. No matter where they come from, great people are still people, just like you.
Today, ex-Special Forces soldier, security specialist, and record-breaking adventurer Dean Stott joins us. He shares his experiences, from his military background to his Pan-American Highway cycling adventure. His is an inspiring story of pushing the limits and redefining the meaning of ‘adventurer’. Just like everyone journeying through life, he has also faced challenges on the way to the finish line. After listening to the episode, you may gain the motivation to try something you've never done before.
If you’re thinking of one day achieving a world record or if you want to know the meaning of being an adventurer, this episode is for you.
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My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
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Dean’s father was a tracksuit soldier or the football manager and coach in the army.
Dean was an active child growing up.
While he was never forced to go into the military, he ended up joining anyway.
[09:00] The Fruits of Dean’s Military Training
Dean’s time in the military helped him put on some muscle and gain height and weight.
He didn’t feel pressure to choose a department because he wasn't aware of how difficult each option would be. Dean ended up in the SBS (Special Boat Service) as he was more comfortable with water.
He learned that rehearsing over and over helps you prepare for different scenarios.
Dean’s training also prepared him to expect things to never go according to plan. He was taught how to react and plan for the best outcomes.
[16:57] Dean’s Turning Point
Unfortunately, Dean had an accident while on an aircraft jump during pre-deployment training.
Luckily, he landed successfully. However, he tore numerous supporting muscles, particularly in his knee. He couldn’t even run 100 meters due to these injuries.
Dean left the military. After retiring, he experienced an identity crisis.
Dean's wife, Alana, was also pregnant. So, he was under a large amount of mental pressure.
Alana helped him during this challenging period.
[22:35] Experience in the Security Industry
With his training from the Special Forces, Dean went on to the security industry. He carried out projects for the British and Canadian embassies.
Dean bought weapons and communication tools to sell to his clients. Additionally, he also made and sold evacuation plans to oil and gas companies.
Ad-hoc security projects were a better option for Dean as he didn’t want to join organisations.
He helped in the aftermath of the Benghazi assassination of the then American ambassador. With his safe houses and contacts, he was able to transport people from Benghazi to Tripoli.
Despite the numerous tribal and ideality differences between these two places, Dean helped people safely reach their destinations. He did this by communicating respectfully and humbly with the locals.
[31:33] The Effect of Fear
The media largely contributes to the world’s perception of high-risk places.
Dean is fully aware of the threats present in his job. But he learns to appreciate and look at another perspective.
Despite terrorist threats and danger, these high-risk cities have hospitable people and lovely surroundings.
[37:03] Looking for the Meaning of ‘Adventurer’
Dean became fixated on working to gain money. Then, he realised he was losing physical and mental wellness.
Before turning 40, Dean experienced a midlife crisis. He wanted to leave a legacy. And so he chose to break a world record on cycling.
Dean chose to cycle from South Argentina to North Alaska via the Pan-American Highway, the longest road in the world.
To beat the record of 117 days, Dean's goal needed to cover the distance in 110. So, he trained to cycle in different weather conditions and altitudes.
Dean cycled for Heads Up, the mental health campaign of Prince Harry, Prince William, and Kate. He set a target of ₤1,000,000.
[48:11] Preparation Phase
As Dean was doing his research for cycling, he also spoke to previous record holders.
He asked them questions that he learned from his experiences in Special Forces debriefings.
Dean learned that the previous record holders experienced issues in South and Central America, the second half of the challenge.
[49:27] Dean’s Journey Across South and Central America
Dean decided to start in the south first to get all the issues out of the way. His adventure began in Southern Argentina.
He became physically and mentally stronger after four weeks on the road. Most of the time, Dean would also go beyond his daily-set kilometres and hours.
He divided his milestones into countries, cities, and days. He also divided his days among four stages.
With smaller and more manageable milestones, Dean didn't feel overwhelmed. He instead felt like he was training, nothing more.
Dean looked forward to small rewards after each milestone. These motivated him to move and be better the next day.
[55:47] Dean’s Trip Across North America
By this time, Dean learned that he was invited to Prince Harry’s wedding. This meant he had to finish the challenge in 102 days.
So, he cycled at night.
Dean also saw a post of a recent world breaker, saying he’ll break a record within 100 days.
Dean’s family was also at the end to greet him; this thought motivated him.
So, Dean cycled for 22 hours every day, even at -18 degrees, to beat the record.
[1:01:50] The Cycling World Record
Dean's adventure lasted for 99 days. He spent ninety-four days cycling and five days on logistics.
He averaged 147 miles a day with a speed of 16.8 miles per hour. Dean also lost 12 kilos.
Most importantly, he raised $1.2 million, or ₤900,000, through corporate donors and sponsors.
He was even able to attend the royal wedding.
[1:03:19] Events Following Dean’s Adventure
Dean experienced two highs in a week and felt a depression phase after.
Dean did a Q&A with Prince Harry shortly after returning to talk about the amount they raised.
It's weird for your family to go on with their everyday lives while you’re still riding the highs of your success.
Dean feels lucky because his family is involved in his activities. So, they can be with him throughout his journey.
Anyone can do a world record when they have the luxury to just focus on their craft and immediate goals. Mortgages, physical health, and family responsibilities may get in the way of those goals.
[1:08:44] What Lies Ahead for Dean
His next goal is to kayak from Rwanda to Egypt, which is a 4,280 mile-long feat.
This time, he will raise awareness on issues such as human trafficking, modern slavery, and pollution.
This new feat will also promote African people and their beautiful and natural environment.
Kayaking is more skill-involved since he'll be encountering wild animals and overcoming water currents and waterfalls.
Listen to the episodes about the specifics of Dan’s preparations.
[1:14:54] Final Thoughts and Advice
Don't compare yourselves to other people, especially on social media.
Anticipation is worse than participation.
Start with small steps and progress from there.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘If someone disagrees, “I didn't think you're gonna do it”. The best way to prove them wrong is actually physically doing it.’
‘You can't control the uncontrollables, you know, as long as you have a plan. One thing I saw, really take from the military is that meticulous planning and detail that goes into it.’
‘What I really took from the military is that unrelenting pursuit of excellence, trying to be the best you can be.’
‘The world's very quick to tarnish certain societies with one brush because of what they've seen on TV.’
‘Before you get, sort yourself out, you know, we'll sit down, and we'll ask three questions: “What worked? What didn't work? And if you're going to do it again, what would you do differently?”’
‘And then it was just, look at the next two hours. Look at the next stage. I didn't look at the afternoon, didn’t look at the next day. And before you've done it, you've done a day, you've done a week, you've done a world record.’
‘Don't worry about what other people are doing. Just focus on yourself. You know, I always say anticipation is worse than participation.’
About Dean
Dean Stottis a former member of the British Special Forces, where he travelled to dangerous places for 16 years. After an accident, he was forced to find other ways to use his time and skills. With his experiences in the Special Forces, Dean is now a world-leading security consultant and avid adventurer.
Indeed, Dean redefines the meaning of adventurer in everything that he does. He has set the world record, cycling the entire 14,000 km Pan-American Highway in less than 100 days.
Apart from these successes, Dean is also a motivational speaker who helps others overcome fear and adapt to change. His positive mindset and wide range of skills also enable him to work with brands and charities. He also incorporates advocacies into his adventures, with his most recent world record supporting mental health.
Check out hiswebsiteif you want to know more about Dean and his next adventure. You can also reach him through other platforms likeInstagram,Facebook, andTwitter.
Enjoyed This Podcast?
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can understand the meaning of being an ‘adventurer’ and go on their own adventures.
Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Welcome back everybody. Lisa Tamati here, your host. Fabulous to have you with me again for another crazy episode of Pushing the Limits. Before we get underway with today's guests who I know you're going to find very, very exciting and interesting, just a reminder, to check out our epigenetics program, our flagship program that we do. One of our main programs besides our online run training system, where we look at your genes and how to optimise your life, your nutrition, your food, your exercise, all aspects of your life, including your social, your career, what parts of your mind you use the most, your dominant hormones, all this information is now able to be accessed and we can identify the lifestyle changes and the interventions that we can make to optimise your life. So if you want to hit know a little bit more about that program, head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the work with us button and you'll see ourPeak Epigeneticsprogram, go and check that out.
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Right. Today's guest is oh he's a bit of a legend. Dean Stott is his name. He's a ex-Special Forces soldier, he was in the special boat service, British Army's where he came from originally. And he spent 16 years going into the most dangerous places on the planet and doing his job as a frogman. That's his nickname on hiswebsite. Even, as The Frogman. He is the author of a book calledRelentless. Go figure, we've both got books calledRelentless. I think we knew that we were going to get along. He's a motivational speaker. He's also a world record holder. Most recently he cycled the entire Pan-American highway. What are we talking- what is it, 14,000 miles or something ridiculous. And he did it in under 100 days. He's an absolute legend. And he had to get it done in time to get to Harry and Megan's winning. So he was desperate to get it done under 100 days. It's a really interesting story. This is a guy who's lived life on the edge in every which way you can possibly imagine. So I'm really looking forward to sharing his insights and his story with you now. Right, over to the show with Dean Stott.
Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Your host Lisa Tamati here, sitting in New Zealand and ready for a fantastic interview today. I have a bit of a hard ask with me. I think it's a bit hard to describe this man, what he's done. I have Dean Stott with me. Dean, welcome to the show. It's fantastic to hear you. Yeah, you're sitting in Orange County?
Dean Stott:I say, yeah moved to move to Orange County in California six months ago, actually in the middle of the pandemic. Just took advantage of the world pause, and just changed scenery.
Lisa:Just change the scenery. Right, Dean we're gonna have a really interesting conversation because when Idiscovered youactually through another friend's podcast,My Home Vitality, shout out to Sean and everyone over there. And I realised that we had the same title of our books, was your one right?
Dean:Yeah.
Lisa:My one's been smaller. I thought, you, ‘This guy's probably right up my alley’. So you are known as the frogman, you've been in this Special Forces, Special Boat Services. You have also become an expeditionary athlete and adventurer and, in many years. But I want to go back a little bit, and it's starting to, were you always this determined and crazy and head through the wall type of person? And tell us a little bit about your background for starters.
Dean:Yeah, so I don't know whether I was on reflection, you look back and think maybe I was slightly, you know, you touched when I was in the military, my father was in the military. And I grew up surrounded by that, in that environment, but was never forced upon me to continue any sort of tradition and things like that. My father was the army football manager and coach. So he was very sports-oriented, what we would call a tracksuit soldier. He very much that, you know, his career was based on his sport and abilities. So there was that competitive drive anyway, that I had from my father. My parents split up when I was a young age. And when I was about eight years old, I moved away with my mother for a couple of years. My father then got custody of me and my sisters, we went back to live with my dad, so I only had the single parent, and we just went everywhere with him. And it was all with the military and all these sporting events. I wasn't, you know, the children of today, with technology, you know, when we were younger, as you will know, we know you weren't allowed in the house unless it was absolutely raining.
So we had some natural physical robustness. And by, I joined the military, I approached my father and told him my intentions of joining the military, when I was 17. And he, he told me, I'd last two minutes. I don't know whether that was reverse psychology for me to push harder and prove him wrong. And, but I was about 65 kilos, and five-foot-seven, so I wasn't, you know, the figure, the man that I am today. And, but when I did join the military, I then went through training and things. And I didn't have aspirations of being Special Forces or commandos or anything like that. And I didn't, I wasn't really aware about the structure of the military anyway, because it was just sport. That's all I've seen where my dad, I hadn't seen the bigger picture. So then when I pass basic training. It’s only 10 weeks long, you know, you then get a little bit of confidence in your abilities. And then you started in a short period of time, by the age of 20, or 21 actually, I was a para-commando diver and a PTA, done every arduous force within the military. But I'd grown so quick over those two or three years, and I will be about 85 kilos, now. I'm five-foot-eleven. So I was getting confident in my own abilities. And I was also growing into the individual that I was today. And I mean, once you pass a certain threshold, or pass a course, you then sort of look at, ‘Well, what's next?’ You know, I wasn't the best on the courses, but I just gave it my 100%. And then you sort of, your career then starts channelling in one direction, you then those before you or your peers, the mentors are all going Special Forces. And then it's like, the next question is, ‘Why not? Let's have a crack.’
Lisa:Yeah, that it takes a special type of person to be able to, like, I grew up in a family with lots of stories, like my dad was only in the military for a short time, but he was a firefighter. And so, you know, my husband's a firefighter, my dad's a firefighter, my brother's a firefighter, we’re a firefighter family. And when I was a girl, when I was a little girl, we couldn't, I couldn't grow up to be a firefighter. It wasn't, it wasn't you know, unfortunately. Thank God, you can now. And, you know, if my dad had had his way, I would have been a firefighter, I would have been an SAS soldier, I would have been like, because he was a hard ass And he wanted all of that for me. And, you know, unfortunately, society sort of stopped some of the things. So I ended up doing it in other ways that I could do it. But wasn't there a lot of pressure? Did you feel like you had to live, you know, your dad saying that to you? Was it sad and just a thing? Or did that really bite with you that, ‘Hey, I'm going to prove you wrong,’ you know what I'm going for?
Dean:Yeah, I think for me, it was. And we'll talk about other stories in my career, and it seems to be a common theme. I know, I fought. There's no point in arguing my father, you know, and or anyone, if someone disagrees, ‘I don't think you're gonna do it’. The best way to prove them wrong is actually basically doing it. Yeah. And then you don't even need to say anything. You just need to just leave that pause. And so I think for him, I don't know. I think it was a throwaway comment, you know, the fact I still talk about it now. And you know, a lot of people say to me, would you say that to your son? So of course, you know, I mean, I and, but for me it was that drive. Now, my father we talked about, you know, he really, he was sport oriented, actually when I joined Military I got sent to Germany to play football as well, because they knew I was Dave Stott’s son.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dean:And see, after a year of being there, I said, ‘No, I don't want to follow the same footsteps as my father, I want to carve my own path.’ And that's when I then went, commando, para and things. So I was going a different path from my father, he wasn't a para commando and things like that. So for me, it was like, this was new territory to me. I wasn't really put under pressure from him. I know a lot of guys who I served with, you know, from a young age, from young boys, all they ever wanted to be was a Royal Marine, or a para, they wanted to be SAS and things. I didn't, I wasn't, there was something that I didn't–
Lisa:You weren’t conditioned.
Dean:Look, I wasn't even aware of it. That was why. So when I approached these courses, I didn't put myself under that self-induced pressure with some of these guys– guys and girls do. And I think that helped in a way. I sort of approached it in a, you know, it is what. It is not being naive, it's not what was involved walk in the park. But, you know, I was aware how difficult it was. But it wasn't the be-all or end-all. You know, some guys who did it, don't achieve the grades or, or the standards, and then they're broken. That’s all their life. And I think it's actually too much pressure on themselves. So sort of going into these situations, you just need to be a bit open-minded.
Lisa:And what was the training like to go into the Special Forces and to know what you do? What is it like to go through– because we see the stuff on the telly, and you know, everybody knows about how hard ass all that type of training is. And what do you need? What did you get out of it? What was the experience like for you to do those extreme sort of courses?
Dean:Well for me, it’s very much a grown-up course. You know, the way that then, you've got this stuff on TV, where you have the perception it's hard-ass and everyone's swearing and shouting here. And it is night and day from that, you know. I understand with TV, there's a fine line between authenticity and entertainment. Actually, if you film selections, it’s actually quite boring. You know, these guys just get told where they got to go. And they just do it. So, and that's what I liked about the course is that the fact that you're– you all grow– you’re all treated as grown-ups. There was no shouting, and they just told you what to do. They didn't need to shout, the selection was that hard in itself, that they didn't need to put that additional pressure on you. So I did what I can. And in fact, they gave you some sort of independence. To think on your own. I was fortunate to be an instructor on the commando course and also the senior dive instructor. So I've seen it from an instructor's perspective. And on those sort of courses, you do give the students some motivation and inspiration as well.
But on this one, you don't get anything. Yes, you get the reverse when you go to the jungle, and they tell you about how you're not doing well. And you know, just give up now and save six months of your life and things out. But again, I got that reverse psychology as a young boy telling me I couldn't do it. So yeah. And for me, I didn't go– you're– I was from, I came from the army. So I, the normal traditional route was especially SAS. I went SBS. I was one of the first army guys to do that. And that was because I'd spent eight years with three commando brigades, Brigade Iraqi force and I was a senior dive instructor. So water, I was more comfortable in water. So the special boat service was that natural transition for me. So they say when you go on selection, be the gray man, you know, just don't don't stand out and bring attention to yourself and things. I’ll be the gray man for about two minutes. Because they will react, they’ll scream my name out. And that's why I was going this way and not the traditional, right?
Lisa:Because you came from the wrong place.
Dean:Yeah, although I didn't put myself under my own self-induced pressure. I had that sort of hovering above my head. But again, once you– if you're confident in your abilities, and there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance at that age. I was a 28 year old sergeant. And I spent seven years in Brigade Iraqi. I've seen those who've gone before me and I knew that I was just as good as then. And you sort of know that they're going to play these mind games and when they come, as long as you identify when they come in and just deflect it.
Lisa:Yeah. Has it really helped you in everything that you've done since like, what are some of the key learnings that you take away from doing such arduous, tough, scary stuff?
Dean:Um, I think, you know, you can't control the uncontrollables you know, as long as you have a plan. One thing I saw, really take from the military is that meticulous planning and detail that goes into it. And the fact that we rehearse, rehearse, and rehearse. You know, we do that over and over and over again. You know, I've been guest speaking alongside some, like, some of the England rugby players. They talk about the World Cup, now that how they repeat an exercise, until they get 1% better. You know, we'll rehearse, rehearse all these different scenarios. And, but ours is a bit of a different situation. You know, if we get it wrong or pause or hesitate, you know, we don't lose five points in a row, we lose lives. Guys, people will get killed.
So yeah, so there's that which what I really took from the military is that unrelenting pursuit of excellence, trying to be the best you can be. But also, as well as the planning, and that we talked about that, we'll probably talk about it later when we talk about the bike ride, is the fact that not–nothing always goes to plan. Plan is the best plan in the world, you know, and things never go to plan. And don't worry about that. And that's what I liked about the Special Forces is there were a lot of, ‘Well, if you don't go as planned, you just react to the situation that's in front of you.’ And a good friend of mine told me a quote, ‘You can't be experienced without experiences’. And that's what I got from the military. The military, a lot of these big corporates around will, would love to try and replicate the scenarios or, or conditions that these people have been in, but you just can't. And that's the great thing about the military. They put you in some high octane environments, in difficult positions, difficult environments, and having to make difficult decisions. But you learn from that, you know, my decision, when was the wrong decision? You know, when you have to make? Yeah, you just reflect back on what worked and what didn't work.
Lisa:Wow. So you were in the military for, I think it was 16 years, was it, or something?
Dean:Yes, yes. Yeah.
Lisa:And so it was a big chunk of your life. And then and then what happened? Tell us about the accident.
Dean:Yeah. So I joined, I joined a special forces in the height of the war on terror. So I was the pinnacle of my career, everything was going really well. I was doing what these children nowaday plays Call of Duty. That was my lifestyle, day in day out. And we're just about to get pre-deployment training to go back out to Afghanistan again, and we're out training in Oman. And I was doing what's called a HAHO jumps, it’s a high altitude, high opening jump. So unlike freefall, where you're free aligned, you're actually still connected to the aircraft. You exit the aircraft at 15,000 feet. And you do that, because that's the limits of oxygen. Any higher and you need oxygen. You open the aircraft and the parachute will open–pull open straight away. And when you travel up to 50 kilometers, or 30 minutes in the air to the target area. So I've done– no–we've done hundreds of these jumps before, I think it's about the third or fourth jump in a day.
And I just exit the aircraft as I normally did, no different from any time before. But this time, when I look, there was something wrong and my leg was actually caught in the line above my head. So I was trying to clear my leg in time before the parachute opened and potentially rip my leg off. But I couldn't clear it in time. The parachute opened, pulled my leg up over my head and the right. Thankfully made my foot released. And otherwise wouldn't be here having this conversation. But straight away I knew there was a problem. The pain was so severe that I was vomiting and because of how thin the air was, I was drifting in and out of consciousness. But no one else in the team knew there was a situation so I wasn't going to come over to net and tell them that I had a sore leg. So I managed to stay with the team, assess where the other parachutes were coming in against the wind.
And my first challenge was to land it because if I didn't land it correctly, you know, on one leg, you know potentially, you could damage your good leg. So, but I did. It was a great, great landing, landed one-legged. And fortunately, the damage sustained on the exit show in my career. As I tore my ACL, my MCL, my lateral meniscus, my hamstring, my calf and my quadriceps, so all these supporting muscles–
Lisa:Just got ripped.
Dean:Yeah, just got ripped. But you know, in the ideal world you would go straight back to UK and you start physio, you just start working on it. But it was the same time as the Icelandic volcano which grounded all aircraft. I was there for about nearly five weeks just thrown in a hotel with painkillers.
Lisa:Are you kidding. So that was it.
Dean:Yeah, yeah, I sort of missed that, and then got back to UK. I remember I made it back to UK, got sent home for six weeks and leaves. We’re now talking about 11, 12 week period from the injury. Then they lost my MRI scans. It was just a spiral of failure in the medical system there. And so yeah, so I left. But all I've ever known, it’s 16 years. Military, even as a young child growing up. So I didn't have, I didn't look beyond the military. For me, I was a lifer. That was me.
Lisa:Wow. So how did that, apart from the gun to the physical injury, but how did that affect you mentally? Like you suddenly–you're at the top of your game, you've been training for this forever, you're doing your job. And then all of a sudden, you're out of the game. And you’re completely sidelined. What happened to you mentally from that side?
Dean:My wife will tell you a different–
Lisa:You didn’t get divorce. So that's good.
Dean:But the one of the things I scored an identity crisis. Well, it is whether you believe in the military, whether you're a professional sports person, or whether you're just someone who works in an organisation or a team, but I've been–I've gone from working in a tight-knit unit, having a role and having a purpose, knowing what I was doing for the next two years, to like, ‘Where do I now fit in society? What was my role and purpose?’ But I got to where I got to, because of my physical robustness. That had now been taken away from me as well. I couldn't even run 100 meters without my leg being in pain. So I had that going on in the background. Also, to add to the pressure, my wife was eight months pregnant. So also wondering whether there is going to be any work there. How am I going to support my family? And thankfully, for me, my wife is very entrepreneurial. You know, you hear horror stories of men and women when they leave the military, about that transition can be quite turbulent. Mine was quite smooth. You know, the military, like your mother and father, you know, they clothe you, they feed you, they pay you on time. You don't even know what, who provides the water or what to eat. You’ve just got a job to do.
But when we leave, we're not aware of who we need to speak to in the council's or the state. There. So my wife was a bank manager for three sons and their banks in Aberdeen. So the stuff that I would normally be worried about, she was, ‘Yeah, I've got all that.’ And she sent my first security company on a Blackberry watching TV, you know, done the right paperwork. So when, so whatever I was going through a hard time having to talk personally, you know, thankfully, wasn't that bad, because my wife had sort of–
Lisa:Yeah, she's awesome.
Dean:But yeah, I just had, you know, talking to the security industry, the pressure of trying to, if there's any work. And I was very fortunate. Within 48 hours I was asked if I can go out to Libya, which I know you're familiar with, to help set up the different project restart the British Embassy during the Arab Spring. And so that's what I did. So wow, look at me, I had work straight away. And I was out in Benghazi, helping sell that project.
Lisa:Can you tell us a little bit about that story? Because that sounds like a bit of a movie.
Dean:You know–familiar I did–when I left, I wanted to find a niche within the security industry. I didn't want to go to Afghanistan and Iraq and do the hostile action, because I've sort of done that, you know, I've done that bit. And you know, I was very lucky to survive. So why would you take another risk? And I looked at the security industry, and actually, a lot of my friends from the special boat service. They were, they had their maritimes companies who are dealing with the Pirates of the east coast of Africa. So I didn't want to be competing with them either. My wife's from Aberdeen, so I moved back to Scotland with her. It’s the only gas capital of Europe. So where is all this trouble? So I was looking into more in the corporate clothes protection sort of industry, that's where my head was focused.
But when I got to Libya, I soon identified that Libyans didn't want another Libyan, another Afghan or Iraq once Gaddafi had fallen, they wanted to take control. But also these larger security companies, the big five, now sort of like dominate the industry. They were charging crisis management in evacuation plans, when actually we just scraped the surface, there was nothing in place. So I flew home, my wife gave birth to our daughter, Molly. And I said, ‘Look, I have a plan. Do you mind if I take our savings out of the bank?’ And that's what I did. And I went back into Libya, there was a huge proliferation of weapons at this point. It's actually ammunition was difficult to get hold of, weapons are not a problem.
So I bought 30 weapons off the black market, and I buried them between Tunis and Egypt and buried them with communications equipment money, and just designed my own evacuation plan, spent a month in the desert. These in design. And I mean, I sold them to a couple of the oil and gas companies on a retainer and just just sat on them. Then the security industry. You know, for me, I didn't want to work for an organisation and be on rotation and things like that. I took a gamble and it was very ad hoc. So each time I got a phone call was a different job. So you know, for example, we did London Olympics. And then next thing you're taking the UAE royal family superyacht from Barcelona to Maldives, and you're training the Kurdish Special Forces in Erbil.
Lisa:Wow! Fascinating!
Dean:It's very diverse. When you tell people in the security industry, I mean, they think you're a doorman from the local nightclub.
Lisa:Surely not.
Dean:I'd like to help people as well. And I'm for me, but what it what it was good for me was–is I was seeing–some of these countries that I've been to anyway with the military, but seeing all the cultures and seeing how things, not from a military perspective, because it was almost a little bit blinkered, there, you know.
Lisa:Yes. Like you say, your head, your role.
Dean:You know, it’s understanding more the politics, the demographics and things like that. So I just come back from the London Olympics. I was in Benghazi. And in the evening, the American ambassador got killed. And they made it into a film called13 Hours.
Lisa:Yes, that's what I thought, it sounds very familiar, I'm sure.
Dean:I know, I always say, ‘Right place, right time’ or ‘Wrong place, wrong time’. And I was there in Benghazi. And I was asked by a German oil company if I could get some of their German engineers from Benghazi to Tripoli. So I had safe houses in the desert. And that's what I did over the three days. I took them back out. And then two years later, I was in Brazil, covering the World Cup.
Lisa:You’re just like… You just got them out through a hole and you do that like going to the supermarket.
Dean:There's no real, no threat to them, no direct threat to them. the only issue I had with that one, you know, we could have–I had drivers from Benghazi, who took us out initially. The problem in Libya, you have 167 tribes. And this is where there's real issues. Because, I mean, you have, you know, those in the East in Benghazi, don't like those in the West in Tripoli. You know, the politics are in Tripoli, the oils are in the East. And so it's understanding that as well. And that's why, so we did it over three days, and the reason we did that is, I was actually, I had the drivers from Benghazi in the safe house. And now that will, ‘You know, Mr. Dean, we can go on because Tripoli is only, you know, it's not far, 300 kilometers’. But they didn't realise I had drivers coming in from Tripoli.
Lisa:And you didn’t want them to–.
Dean:And I didn't want the drivers to compromise us when we go in. So I woke up that morning that we were setting off and the drivers that arrived from Tripoli, the drivers and Benghazi in there. They all had their guns out.
Lisa:Oh, my God.
Dean:I say I mean, I mean, they’re worried they weren't gonna get paid. I said, ‘No, you're paid. I just can't take you to Tripoli.’ And so it's just understanding that sort, rather than just driving as fast as you could to Tripoli and potentially running into issues along the way. And so yes, that was a success. And two years later, I was in Brazil covering the World Cup. And we now had the Tripoli war, which is a civil war between the militias and the government. And I think that's just ended now. And I got a phone call from the Canadian Embassy saying that they'd been stuck in Tripoli. And so they had 18 military within an area close protection team with them, but they weren't allowed to leave the city. So they'd never seen the coastal road out and didn't really have eyes on. So in the days leading up to that, the British Embassy got shot at every checkpoint between Tripoli and the Tunis border. So I went out with my fixer, and just spoke to the tribal elders in those regions at war and everywhere else. And it was actually just showing them courtesy and respect. Just let us know who we are, when we will come in, we were no threat. And again, it's that understanding the politics and the demographics, which was a success to that. And yeah, we got 18 military in four different maps safely back to back to Tunis.
Lisa:Wow.
Dean:But you know, I've never like they said in Hollywood, I never needed to dig up any of the weapons. They're still there. It’s more of an intelligence-led security thing. But I came home from that trip and my normal procedure would be to wash my kit, repack my bag and everything else, and then get ready for the next phone call. Yeah, one of my shirts was covered in blood. But I've been doing first aid and RTA. And I said to my wife, ‘Can we get the blood out of the shirt?’ And she said ‘Yes, but I’m more concerned why there's blood in there’. Totally what I just got yourself is like a throwaway comment. Yeah, you see, this was the second time in my life, I realised the pin dropped. There was something more mentally, I was just five years now from the military and I was trying to match the adrenaline rush that I had been, without coming to terms with the fact that I'd left and I didn't have that support network. If something had gone wrong, my friends were gonna come in and parachute for me. And so something had to change. And my daughter was young, and my wife now is, you know, she had a very successful property development business. And she said, ‘Look, this was actually all about communication’. She thought I wanted to go away. And I thought she needed me to go away.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah. Because you've been used to that sort of setup for so long.
Dean:Yeah. And I've just been disconnected from society. I just thought that was the norm. You know, I was going to Somalia on my own. Yeah. Just doing–
Lisa:Were you not like, like most people listen to this, I mean, it's such a foreign world for the average person who's never been exposed to any of this. And I've never been anything military. I've been in some tricky situations, and self-caused, gone into shit places which I wasn't really for or shouldn't have been in. But for most people, this is a terrifying thought to even go to some of these places, let alone to do the job that you do. Did you never have a fear of like, do you not have the normal fear responses that most people have?
Dean:I think I do. I think the problem that we have in today's society is TV, is media. You know, it's very, you know, dramatised about these places. These places they go. I use Somalia as an example. I'll go there on my own and have a walk from the airport to the hotel, I won't–because that's where the business is. That's where I think things are happening. And then I've been, you know, yes, there's bad places and things go on. But it's no different from any city, you know. Yes, there's a bit of a terrorist threat and things. But I've been sent on a mission, south of Mogadishu, and in some of the most beautiful waters. I see parts of the country that people don't see. Now, I'm not naive to think there is no threat at all. You know, the success of a lot of my projects is having the right fixers and local influence. The world's very quick to tarnish certain societies with one brush because of what they've seen on TV. For me, they’re the most hospitable people. You know, the Canadian Embassy, the KCA Deutag and a few others, they wouldn't have been successful if it wasn't for the locals.
Lisa:The local people. Yeah.
Dean:And I think that's where somebody's security companies or individuals who think they can just come in with weapons and guys like me, very arrogant, they think they're going to do, to get away with it. And, and it's just showing respect, and humility. And that's my approach to it. So I am obviously conscious there is there is a friend, you know, I have friends who–
Lisa:And you can handle yourself there as well.
Dean:–things that, but yeah, I think that as long as–
Lisa:Yeah, I know what you'd be like when you go to some of these places, you have these preconceived ideas. And some of the places I've been to, like Niger. I went to Niger and you know, Niger, I don’t even know how to say it properly, Niger. Never got that right. That was one place where I landed there. And we were doing a 333k race through there. And I didn’t like go, ‘Holy shit, this place is pretty damn scary’. And you know, you're running across the desert on your own, and there was a lot of military, sort of oil problems. Chinese doing exploration in the desert against the wishes of the tribal people. So there was lots of military convoys coming through with all the arms and things. And you're a little girl running across the frickin’ desert on your own. It's pretty, pretty hairy moments here where you think you can just disappear, you know. But generally speaking, most of the places that you go to where you think are gonna be terrifying, aren't that terrifying. And the people are pretty amazing, too. And you've got to be aware of yourself and, you know.
Dean:Yeah. Having the responsibility, you know, those sort of places as well if they're running an event like that, and, you know, these countries want, you know, it's all about tourism and try and promote and put the country in a good light, you know, they'll do this. Yeah.
Lisa:This one was a bit out there, though. Like this was a French Foreign Legion guy who was running it. He didn't give a shit about anything except making money, right? We went into it naively. These particular ones thinking it was gonna be like the marathon on Saturdays or something. You know what I mean? And it wasn't. It was like 17 runners, nothing was organised. It was like, we ran out of water, we ran out of food, we, you know, I ended up getting food poisoning on top of it all. So that was a really– that's when I realised that most of the races are really super well run, but then there are the cowboys out there. And, you know, we were in their very hands really, you know, and we were lucky to get out the other side on that one. But so how do you like, for your wife? What's it like having your husband off doing God knows what, and having to keep the, you know, the business going, and the life going, and that fear of you being away?
Dean:Yeah. And I'm very fortunate. I've got a, my wife is part of the business anyway, the scoop is anyway, so she would always be doing intelligence bits anyway. So having her being part of that helps. Yeah. Well, rather, you just go in, and she's not knowing what's going on. Yeah. I mean, a part of that. And when we talk about the bike ride, you know, she was the campaign director that so–
Lisa:Sounds amazing.
Dean:–but gets involved in everything. Because then it's very easy to explain why you're doing something or why you're going away because, yeah, the full picture. But no, very, very fortunate to have an understanding– and she, you know, Alana's got a book coming out soon as she talks about why she fell in love with me, because I showed a world that she hadn't seen before. I mean, I was very, we had very similar mindsets, and like, achieve whatever goals you want. So for her to then say, ‘I couldn't do something,’ or you know, would go against, you know, what she believes in, and why we got into it. So obviously, now I'm a bit older and we've got kids and obviously I need to be a bit you know, she needs a little bit more. Yeah.
Lisa:She sounds like an amazing lady. I'll have to get her on.
Dean:Yeah, yeah, she is. She's got a cracking story herself.
Lisa:Yeah, she sounds like it. So I want to transition now into going into life after this chapter of your life, if you like, in becoming this professional adventurer. Because in what you're doing now, what you've got coming up, and the whole world record that you have. Tell us about that.
Dean:Yeah, so we actually stem from coming back from that Canadian Embassy job. You know, something had to change. In chapter 16 in the book, it’s called ‘Dead or Divorce’, so that's the stage we're talking about. Obviously, it's been five years since my leaving the military. I’ve sort of neglected my own sort of physical and mental well-being. I’ve been so fixated on work and bringing in money, and I take like a TRX with me around, just throw it in the suitcase. And I haven’t done any sort of cardiovascular stuff. My injured leg like now was two kilos lighter than my good leg, which is an awful wastage.
So I just that’s when for Alana said, “Come do property development.’ And that's what I did. I hung up my security boots and just bought a pushbike of farmers, and just cycled to and from the office. There's only about eight miles there and eight miles back. You know, nothing big but straightaway being physically active again, you know, I felt like there was a big, big weight off my shoulders, and that's what I did. I cycled to and from the office. But you can imagine my story, you know, sat in these architects and planners meet. So it’s about a month for my 40th birthday. So I was getting a midlife crisis around. What have I done with my life? I'm going to have a legacy and things. So I said, well, ‘I've always fancied doing a world record.’ And Alana said, ‘Well, what in?’ And I said, ‘Well, cycling is good, because it's not impacted– well, you need to consider my knee injury.’ And something that wasn't the knee injury wasn't going to compromise it.
So I said, ‘Well, what about cycling?’ And you know, being in Scotland, I was thinking maybe Aberdeen to Glasgow or something. And my wife then found the world's longest road, which runs in southern Argentina to northern Alaska. So for the listeners, it's probably equivalent to say it's the equivalent of cycling from London to Sydney. Yeah, 30,000 miles.
Lisa:And then another.
Dean:Yeah. Because of the curvature of the earth. So having only cycled 20 miles, this is what I did: I applied for the world record in it. We had looked at Cairo to Cape Town. But I– majority of my security work was in Africa. So I'd be in those days anyway. So for me, I wanted to, as part of the challenge, I wanted to see places that I am– someplace that I hadn't been to before and also because of where you started, and when you're finishing, you're going through all different temperatures and climates and things like that. And so Guinness came back. And the world record when I apply for it was 125 days. Six weeks later when it came back, and said you were successful with the application. And we've been beaten by eight days, the new world record was 117 days.
So that was my target. And my wife and I do a lot charity work. We have been doing since I met her really and, you know, do a lot of stuff with the military. You know, it's part of a special boat service, ambassador for Scotland. Legion, which is the oldest military charity in the UK. But I’m gonna name drop now massively. So Prince Harry and I are good friends, and we've known each other.
Lisa: Is he though?
Dean:Yeah. And as you’ve seen. And I've been friends about 14 years, met each other on a community training course. And, you know, he’d come to some of my events; I've been to some of his events. You know, I– in Mozambique, Tanzania had an intelligence fusion sale, which would identify smuggling routes for the ivory, you know, which I could then relay back to him. So he's doing a lot of stuff in the background. So I rang him up, and I said, ‘Look, I’m gonna cycle, the world's longest road, you know, what campaigns should we do it for?’ And this is back in 2016. So him and his brother and Kate, were just about to launch a mental health campaign calledHeads Togetherin 2017. And he said, would I do it for that campaign? And I said, ‘Yes, of course’. So I now have the challenge of the campaign. And in the end, I set a target of a million pounds.
Lisa:Wow, that’s a big-ass target!
Dean:For me it had to be the enormity of the challenge to reflect how much you're trying to raise. You know, you couldn't– you know, you can't go– can’t say I'm going to raise a million pounds and run the London Marathon because it just doesn't add up. The size of the challenge and the size of the ask here, you know, was balanced. And also to add to that I'd never cycled before as well, which is even more of a–
Lisa:Mental.
Dean:Yes, yeah. So I did a train for a year, you can imagine what it is like trying to get sponsorship at the beginning.
Lisa:What the hell!
Dean:I will perform, break a record, and we'll record and raise a million pounds in mental health and a lot of them thought had mental health problems themselves.
Lisa:But you had a track record of what you've done? I mean, I would have taken you seriously, as far as the–
Dean: A lot of people say to me, ‘How do you get sponsorship?’ You know, I got– and it was just, it was the right messaging at the right time. You know, the Heads Together campaign is launched in the UK, and it's very much the topic of conversation. So a lot of these big corporates wanted to get behind.
Lisa:Wonderful.Yep, yeah.
Dean:So it was the right message at the right time. And, yeah, I got a great sponsor. And, you know, that was only about two months before setting off. You know, I funded it, funded 50,000 of my own money up until that. I had to believe in it
Lisa:And put something on the line?
Dean:Yep. Yeah. So. So that's what I did. Yeah, I mean, I set off on the first of February 2018, the– when I was doing all the early stages when I was doing the planning, and I'd never cycled with I just took a military set of orders, put it on there and just crossed out ammunition. And then as I started learning about saving, I then introduced that into the plan. But there's things that, you know, there are things that are out of my control, like natural disasters, coups, third party influence. So the world record was 117 days, but I was aiming for 110. And it wasn’t– I was going to beat it by a week.
Lisa:You’re in that buffer.
Dean:Yeah that buffer. The buffer, the fudge they call it. Encounter that is eating into the fudge and not your challenge. So that's why, where I set off aiming for 110 days. You know, I was very fortunate to, being in the military and worked in the desert, the Arctic, and the jungle, and things that I've never done on the bike. I had to then simulate those situations. So the Atacama Desert in Chile is the driest non popular desert in the world. It's 47 degrees. What I decided to do so, I went out to Dubai and did two weeks heat training in Dubai. The altitude in Ecuador, of cycling. You know, the biggest climbs in Tour de France ranges in 21, 23 kilometers, minus 67 kilometers and sea level to four and a half thousand meters. So I had to train altitude. So I know that on the day of the event, you know, you do 8 to 10 hours on the bike.
Lisa:Altitude. Yeah.
Dean:So, yeah, I did that. And there's a famous bike ride in the UK called Land's End to John O'Groats.
Lisa:Yes, I know that one.
Dean:Yeah, so I did that twice. I never mean to sound arrogant, but for me, it was a training ride and actually it’s training ride because the challenge was 15 Land's End to John O'Groats back to back. So if I couldn't do one, how was I going to do 15?
Lisa:Yes. It's funny how your perception changes, the bigger your current goal that you're going for, the other stuff becomes small, but what I've learned too is that it goes the other way as well. When you stop doing the big stuff, your horizon comes back in pretty quickly. And then you know, it can be gone the other way.
Dean:You can never replicate what you're going to do with some of the ultra marathons, you won’t go run the exact distance.
Lisa:No, no, you're running near it.
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Dean:Yeah, what I got from doing those Land's End to John O'Groats, you know, I did about nine days, is the fact that the first four or five days are always whether you're at your peak, or wherever you're below peak is always going to be hard and then by the end of the first week, your body then knows what you're asking of it.
Lisa:I found that like too, when I did– because I ran through New Zealand, and I did you know, 2250ks in 42 days, which I was aiming for 33 days, but I had again, I didn't add in the fudge, did I? And I got slower and slower and more injuries and so on. So it took me a bit longer than I was planning. But at the two-week point was when I was at that absolute, like I don't know how to take the next step point, you know. And somehow I had to drop the kilometers a little bit, but then I was able to– my body actually got better from that point on. And I would never have believed if I hadn't lived through it. I thought I was like, absolutely, I don't know the how I'm going to take the next step to then actually the end of the 42 days being like, ‘I could carry on now’. You know, it was quite a phenomenal thing to go through. And I've heard other expeditions that athletes go through the same sort of thing that it bottoms out at the worst point. I've got a couple of mates who ran across the Sahara, and I mean, right, right across the Sahara, 7,000 kilometers. And they said the same thing that they you know, two weeks, and they were thought, you know, ‘We're about to die here. We're not gonna make it.’ And then it's sort of you know, and you have the ups and downs. But if you can push through that mentally, that point you seem to come through it.
Dean:Yeah, you do. I think, you know, for me, I set off from sort of going back slightly when I was doing my research, I, you know, was reading books and magazines learning about cycling. You know, it evolved so much since I was a young boy in a BMX, and I wasn't getting the information I really wanted. So I spoke to the previous record holders, and they're very open, which was great, really, they're very receptive. but they– you know, one of the things we do in the military, especially in the special forces is, it's like a hot debrief. So when, as soon as you've done a job or operation, you come. Before you get, sort yourself out, you know, we'll sit down, and we'll ask three questions: ‘What worked? What didn't work? And if you're going to do it again, what would you do differently?’ So I just asked that question to the previous record holders, and all their issues were in South and Central America: bureaucracy, the borders, languages, first to the base. So they all started in North America, and it was the second half of the challenge which had the issues, right. So I turned on its head, start in the south and get those issues out the way early. So one thing I was quite proud of– just because everyone did it that way didn't mean it was the right way.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dean:But yeah, but I set off from Southern Argentina in the first week, you know, relentless winds, it was like 40 mile an hour, approximate speed. I've never known anything like it. But once that had– I had targets each day, you know what I had to hit each day and I was hitting those targets. I think by the end of the first week, I was 39 miles behind target, but my target is still a week ahead of the world record, right? Yeah, yeah. The weather sort of changed for the better and now the winds have abated. I got through Peru, I got tailwind all the way through Peru. That's 2500 kilometers of tailwind. We did you know, I crashed the bike in Chile, I got food poisoning in Peru, you know, coming out with issues and, you know, got to Ecuador, got the big climb-ins. But before they're gone on the challenge, I've never done more than 150 miles on the road, on the road. I've done 10 hours on a turbo trainer, but never done more than 150 miles. By the week four when I was in Peru, anything less than 150 miles wasn't enough for me. I was physically and mentally stronger as I went. I started at 90 kilos. I was too big.
Lisa:Yeah, but I but you needed it.
Dean:Yeah, but I knew from my time in the military that special forces selection six months long, you don't start day 1 100%. You carry that timber and weight, and then that will shed and you'll get fit. And that's what I did. And you know, when I finished I weighed 78 kilos. Almost 12 kilos. And you know you have to– it’s almost like a polar expedition, you're losing weight from the start. So you just need to try and try and keep it on. But I got to Cartagena on day 48 on March 21. That took 10 days off the previous world record for South America. But that wasn't the world record. And a lot of people called me said, ‘Oh,’ they said, ‘The pressure’s off.’ I said, ‘That's not world record. Call it Brucie bonus. That was a Brucie bonus or a marker to aim for rather than looking at the full challenge. As you know, you don't look at the– Right down into–
Lisa:You get overwhelmed pretty quick.
Dean:What do you do on the flight? So I did. I broke it into countries into days, and then broke the days into four stages. Food and hydration were paramount. So just have a big breakfast. And then just cycle as fast as I could for two hours. You know, I didn't then– just get off the bike for 30 minutes and have food and water and then I'm back on the bike. I was disciplined in my time into 30 minutes, 30 minutes and then chat to someone or the llama you know, he was like, ‘Back on the bike’.
Lisa:Okay.
Dean:That creepage thing gets bigger. And then it was just, look at the next two hours. Look at the next stage. I didn't look at the afternoon, didn’t look at the next day. And before you've done it, you've done a day, you've done a week, you've done a world record. And so that's how I did it. So I was just doing four training rides a day, I wasn't doing a world record.
Lisa:I love it. And you just chunked it down into bite sized pieces that you could make–
Dean:That you can manage. And then I– you see people when they do that– a lot of people do their challenges in the lab. Well, you know, 10 miles behind today, you know what, I'll catch you out tomorrow, but you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. You could have another bad day and then be 20 to 30 miles behind. So for me, to be in the right headspace, mentally, I made sure I hit my targets or I was ahead of targets. After that first week, I was 39 miles behind target. From then on, I was way ahead. So I was in a good headspace at the end of the day, knowing that I was where I should be. Because as you probably accounted with your New Zealand, when you know that you've set a target and you're not– may not get there. You can start messing–
Lisa:I did, yeah. Yeah, it does. Yep.
Dean:So for me, I always say to people, ‘Just stay on the bike or do those– run an extra two or three, just hit the target you set for the day because you, mentally you're going to be in the better.’
Lisa:You can get that nice dopamine hit, that neurotransmitter dopamine, it gives you that little reward and that motivates you to do the next round and keeps you going.
Dean:You know, next morning you know you're not right, I've got to do 30 miles before, your way should be all ahead.
Lisa:Overwhelming you away when you're certain to go backwards. It's yeah, I found that brilliant.
Dean:And then I used to trick myself in the fact that, or give myself a treat, so I had like four stages for South– North America we'll talk in a minute, that’s a different way of psyching, and but for South America because of the security issues, you know, I had a support team and a documentary team and we were very much risk averse, more risk averse than myself. We stay on but I had to consider their welfare. And so we were saying– I'd say go from first light to last light. So that was my depth. That was my cycling period. And the– sorry yeah, I broke it into four stages. So in the morning was fine because I just had a breakfast. So the first two hours, I'd be able to gauge how long I would be on the bike for the day. Because unlike when other people go for bike rides at home, they'll go for a ride and they'll do a loop and they'll come home. So at some point they'll have a headwind or a tailwind or a side wind. But on this ride, if I had a headwind, it was all day. So that would really gauge up to the rest of the day. So that was the first stage. The second stage I had lunch to look forward to. And the third stage– sorry, the fourth stage. I had the end of day to look forward to. The third stage I had nothing to look forward to. So I would make sure– so my look forward was a can of Coke or an ice cream. Yeah, just something simple. And something to look forward to after the two hours.
Lisa:Yeah, let's get reward thing. You just need it little, ‘Yeah, I’m going for something.’
Dean:‘They’ll arrive in, oh, just another two hours after that.’
LisA:I'd find that sometimes my reward, and this is getting like pretty sad like, yeah, ‘I'm gonna be allowed to go to the toilet,’ you know, like, ‘I'm gonna have a wee’. Like shit! That’s pretty, pretty shit when you actually, when that's your reward.
Dean:It's probably looking with a bit more–
Lisa:What the hell. And so, you know, because I watched the little short. Can people watch the documentary? Is it out yet? is it available?
Dean:No. So we've got the footage, we've got all the footage together. We– the sort of plan is maybe because we're talking about the next challenge shortly here, rolling onto that and doing a double. And they do it through a series of them. Where we were sitting on that, which is good. But yeah, I took, you know, a broader South America record, which is great. From the cycling perspective, you know, it was a great decision going south-north. From a logistics perspective, it wasn't. We're having to change vehicles in every country in South America to slow me up. So we bought an RV and a 4x4, which was going to get shipped from Fort Lauderdale to Panama. And that would then take us all the way to Alaska, because I had to fly from Colombia to Panama, there’s a Darién gap, which you can't cross. This is the only bit you have to fly. And I was in Ecuador, two weeks before my wife Alana rang me, told me, the vehicles hadn't been loaded on the container in Florida. So my wife, my PA, and a couple my friends, I think it forced them, they flew out and they drove the vehicles 4000 miles in eight days from Florida through Mexico all the way from Central America to Panama.
Lisa:This location.
Dean:So when I broke the record in the morning, flew across, they came in an hour late and handed over the keys. So that then really helped us for the second part of the challenge. And I got to North America on day 70. And I was 14 days ahead of that. Perfect, you know? Okay, you know, i can take the foot off the gas, or I can have a day's rest here or there. Then my wife kept ringing me and you know, she's very good in keeping all those distractions away from me. So my initial thought was the children, or something wrong with the kids. And then she told me we've been kindly invited to Harry and Megan's wedding. Changed the dynamics completely of the challenge. So you get home, I had to be finished by day 102, which is 15 days ahead of the challenge. So going into the challenge, going into the phone call, I was 14 days ahead. 10 minutes later, I'm now a day behind.
Lisa:Oh my God.
Dean:It doesn’t matter what you've done, it's been taken from you. So yeah, mixed, mixed emotion cycling off from that phone call.
Lisa:Yeah, like excited for the wedding. Shit! I’ve got to go faster.
Dean:And then when I got to Lubbock in Texas next day, we have 60 mile an hour winds and tornadoes, so I was stuck for another 24 hours. So I was now two days behind and there was an app on your phone calledWindy TV. I don't know if you've come across it. It gives you the strength and direction of the winds every hour for the next two weeks. But 95% accurate real time I stepped away from the challenge when looking at Windy TV, but unlike South America when I sit outside first light, last light, in North America we had the luxury of security. Cycle at night. So I took advantage of that and I just played. To get out at Lubbock, I just cycled 340 miles in 36 hours to miss the next weather window coming in and just play chess with Mother Nature through North America. I had 17 days planned, and I cycled in 11 and a half days in Canada. We also use it to my advantage: I picked up a tailwind in Cheyenne in Wyoming and did 260 miles in 11 hours and 10,000 feet of climbing because I had a 50 mile an hour tailwind.
Lisa:And some luck and some–
Dean:Yeah exactly. Though it’s not about having a plan but having to change the plan to the situation on the ground and then I got a week outside and I was that, right? This will record smashed. I'll be back in time for this wedding unless I get eaten by a grizzly; we’re in Canada and Alaska. And then I was made aware about this professional cyclist who's got three other endurance world records. He's about 26 years old, sponsored by old Red Bull, all the brands, and he come out on social media that day and said that he was going to do the Pan-American Highway in August and be the first man to do 100 days. Dynamic’s completely for me so I just cycled. You know, every time I thought I hit my objective, my objective then kept moving. So I am, I cycle with– for 22 hours in the last 30 hours in minus 18 to come in maybe nine days, 12 hours and 56 minutes. So it wasn't the original plan. It was so fast. Yeah. And I couldn't tell anyone I've been invited to the wedding. You can see friends comment that, ‘He's picked this right up, you know, he's now– he's going,’ and people said, ‘He's rushing back for his mate’s wedding.’ I couldn't tell them. Yeah, so I just had to do it. But my family were in line and the kids had flown into Prudhoe Bay, which is an oil field on the top of the Arctic Ocean. They'd come in with all these oil workers. They’d never seen kids there, so I knew they were there at the end. So that was that final bit of motivation.
Lisa:Oh yeah. And when you're in that last spurt before the thing, it's like, let’s just get this shit done. Get over the damn line.
Dean:Like the last day, last two days, I had 250 miles to do. And I thought well, I'll do 150 miles a day. I mean, and this leaves me 100 miles in the last day. And I'm well under the 100 days. So I did the first 50 miles and got to this roadblock at noon. And they were at, ‘No, you can't pass until eight o'clock tonight.’ So they took eight hours off my streak. So I got into the RV. And again, I just put pen to paper even on the last day. But thankfully because it landed at midnight sun, it doesn't get dark. And I said, ‘Well, it's eight o'clock tonight, I will cycle until I get there.’ And I cycled at seven o'clock the next evening. But doing about eight, nine mile an hour because the winds were so strong. I was taking in coffee every couple of hours to stay hydrated. So even to the very last day, the plan to get–
Lisa:That’s insane.
Dean:So yeah, we crossed the line, you know, from any cyclists out there, you know, it worked out 99 days. So ninety– five days off. Three to get where you’re into and two logistics. There's 94 days of cycling, which is 147 miles a day. And I burned– I lost 12 kilos in weight. And the app speed was 16.8 mile an hour, which is fast because it was just short, sharp sessions. And more and more impressively was the money we raised. We raised over $1.2 million, or₤900,000.
Lisa:You’re kidding me! That is insane.
Dean:Mental. Yeah.
Lisa:Congratulations.
Dean:That was through corporate donors and sponsors. And I might seem like those guys, showing no emotion, they like, see people suffering, with their hands in their pockets. But for me, I was trying to promote, like the unrelenting pursuit of excellence if you're going to do something you do it to the best of your ability. So me crying on the camera wasn't gonna happen.
Lisa:There was a few tantrums on there, right?
Dean:But that was it, yeah. So I'd never looked, you know, we couldn't– we came back two days later, we had the royal wedding was sort of then for me, overshadowed everything I did you know, all the plan was like, ‘How was the wedding?’ I was that, ‘Really? I'm just–’
Lisa:That's a bit sad really, isn't it?
Dean:I wish I'd had a bit of time to sort of absorb what I've done and achieved. You know, I was still just getting used to being with my family. Never mind–
Lisa:Harry and Megan they kind of waited another week for you to get your shit together.
Dean:No press. No revenues. No ads, you know, we talked about, you know, as well, but you have depression when you come back, when things taper things like that. You know, for me, I had two highs in one week. And then it was like, pfft! We had a big fundraiser six weeks later and Harry came, you know, did a Q&A session on stage and we raised it.
Lisa:Oh, wow.
Dean:And that was my sort of short-term focus after the bike ride. You know, I was supposed to taper my training and I did a 10-mile bike ride to the coffee shop. And you know, when I came back, I'm very objective. I need to have a target or something to go for. So for, just to go cycling 10 miles wasn't– on the way back then these cyclists spotted me. I just needed to put on my PB for that strays, I knew I wasn't actually going to be taping. So I just put the bike in the garage.
Lisa:It's really either, like, if we can just touch on the mental health side of it afterwards. Because, that's something that I've found after every big thing that I've done, especially when it's been overseas environment and some out of place or something. You come back and you're like, you come back to your family, especially when your family not involved, and then like everybody else is just going about their normal business and you're like, just like, ‘Do you know what I just experienced?’ And everyone's like, ‘Oh, that's nice, darling.’ And you might, you know, that's really– I found that quite devastating at times, when your family just didn't get in, you feel like a fish out of water.
So I have this bit of a crisis of luck with– and you’re saying you also have a crisis of like, ‘W8hat is my, what is my role in life?’ Like when you got out of the army, it's like, ‘Well hang on, my whole bloody safety net of who the heck I am and the framework that I built is just suddenly been taken from me. Now, what the heck I am?’ And then you've gone and become this adventure athlete and doing this crazy sort of stuff. So you've filled that, that void, if you like, and in like, with my mum's story, now with the same book name that we've got, like that wasRelentlessit was– I was suddenly thrown into this new world of like, I'm no longer an F, you know, I couldn't be a full time more I was. I was always working, but I was an athlete at the same time.
And now it was just mum, you know, like, full bore to rehabilitate her or she's going to die. So, but you adapt. Everything becomes the ability of the human mind and body, you go through a transition phase, but then you learn to adapt. And some, you know, for a couple of years, I found it hard. It's like, ‘Who the heck am I if I'm not that anymore, and I'm not doing that anymore and I’m not doing that? But you have other priorities. You've got kids now and stuff, and you don't want to be in dangerous situations involving–
Dean:Yeah, I was probably used to that. Because at the time in the military, you know, when we were, it was the same sort of situation, you'd be away on tour, and you come back, and everyone's just going back there to their normal day to day business. And it's– there's no point in trying to talk. So I was used to that anyway, from the military, and in the private security. I think we're, um, I'm lucky with Alana and the kids is that they get fully immersed in it. They're part of that project as well, you know. Our daughter cut her hair, she had really long hair, cut her hair and raised₤1000 for the charity. So they really go all in everything. Alana does the campaign and, and the fundraising. So it's not me and then the family, coming back to the family. They're in that with me. So I think I'm very lucky.
Lisa:You are pretty lucky, I reckon, with your family, you've got a pretty good combo with your wife. And–
Dean:Then I believe that anyone, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, anyone can break a world record if you take away all those distractions, the mortgage, and things like that. And then who's looking after the kids who's picking the kids up from the school and all you've got to concentrate on is your–
Lisa:I totally hear you, because I think that's the fix, the actual key to it, you know. when you've got the luxury and it is a luxury now not having that luxury to be able to be a you know, selfish athlete, who can do what, and can focus fully. And then you can, of course you can do crazy, amazing things. Unfortunately, life does come and chuck, you know, curveballs at you. And you have to go with the flow you know, but it doesn't negate what I've decided too is that I’m reaching an age now, you know, like my body started to break the pieces by about 48 things have gone pear-shaped. Is that you know, it doesn't negate what you did. And you know, because you know you sort of have this mentality ‘I’m a has-been I've been there, done it’. No, it's just like I could use a new stage in your life. And what is the challenge now? And there are some other big challenges that you're on. And you've got a big– speaking of big challenges, you've got some other crazy mission coming up. Tell us about that.
Dean:So my unique selling point in the athlete world is I take a sport or discipline I've never done before. So, you know, we're going to– we’re actually going back slightly when we- when our sponsored marketing team did the SWOT analysis on the lockdown. Right?
Lisa:There's mum ringing in the middle of my bloody podcast.
Dean:We’ll end this. The strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities, and threats. And the only weakness it came out was my arrogance towards the cycling community. But, you know, thankfully, no one ever said that, you know, but I took that as a strength. You know, it's that fire in the belly to say, ‘Well, you know, that's what they think then’. But no, look, no one ever said that innovation was good. But then, you know, now, I've enjoyed cycling. Now I'm going to be arrogant towards the kayaking community. I just say that back. The kayaking community really, really great in coming around on this challenge. So I’ve cycled the world's longest road. The plan is now, or the plan is next year, first of February, I set off, is to kayak the world's longest river from source to sea, from Rwanda to Egypt, which has never been done before as in paddled from one end to the other. There’s been stages, but never completely. So 4,280 miles is that long. But unlike the last challenge which was promoting mental health, you know, will still always be an ambassador and push the importance of physical activity and mental health. You know, this one, my wife's very passionate on modern slavery, human trafficking and–
Lisa:Yeah, wow.
Dean:–doing a lot in that area. But I didn't want to channel myself down just that one topic. So I've left it open. And so we're going to talk about poverty, pollution, sustainability, conservation.
Lisa:Amazing.
Dean:Six-episode documentary, and really, for me, promote Africa. I, we talked about the security industry and how people see a continent from what they see on the TV. For me, it's my favorite continent. I love Africa. I know the people don't have two coins to rub together, but they're probably the most friendliest, happiest, and hospitable people.
Lisa:Totally.
Dean:I really want to promote that as well. And unlike the bike ride, which is mostly physical this is, you know, there's a lot more skill involved in this. You know, it’s everything from flatwater to grade six waterfalls.
Lisa:Yeah, isn't there some big waterfalls and stuff?
Dean:You got crocodiles, you got hippos, you got civil war in South Sudan. So it's gonna, it's gonna have it's gonna have some issues along the way.
Lisa:You're going to hit some more adventures, and I can't wait to hear about those. I have to actually connect you ahead on the podcast. Last week, a lady by the name of fellow countrywoman of yours, Laura Penhaul. And Laura is, she rode across the Pacific. And she's a bit like you. She didn't, she never rode before, when she took on this challenge. So she did it with three other ladies, she got a team together. You have to have a listen. I'd love to connect you guys because she might get I mean, it's a different rowing, quaking, but you know, pretty, pretty phenomenal. Lady is–
Dean:Amazing. Yeah, no, please do. Yeah, but I've left this one open if anyone wants to come join me at any stage, more than welcome. You know, we approached Guinness about being a world record and you know, Guinness, no one's ever done it before. So they just took the Amazon guidelines and dropped it on this, but Amazon's a different river. Amazon's quite flat and they said ‘Oh, you're allowed to use one boat.’ But if that was the case, you’re carrying the boat about halfway around so we then changed it to self propelled by paddle which means I can use either a ocean ski, a creek boat, or a raft. But actually then, in reflection, looking at you know, when you do Guinness World Records, there's so many guidelines you need to adhere to. Which is fine when you're cycling on a road or something. When you're paddling the river which has never been done before. I mean, there's Civil War, there's animals that are gonna eat you and things that, you don't want to be– you're gonna have to make some key decisions and you don't want your decisions to be blurred because you've got to stick to these guidelines. So actually, we just push that out and said ‘Well, we're not going to do it for world record.’ Not at first anyway. We'll collect the data, but I don't want that to sort of hinge long decision.
Lisa:And I think it stands on its own, Guinness World Record or not, you know, like that's not– I don't know, it's not important. This is about the actual beast you're gonna go on this crazy adventure.
Dean:Yeah.
Lisa:So we can– do you know– I'm you know– I'm just absolutely fascinated by your mindset and the way that you approach things and all the stuff that you do and I'd love to have you on at another stage in the future. And your wife. Because I think you need a double episode to find out what the hell makes a lady like that tick as well. But where can people follow you, get involved with your project, the next one that you've got coming out, your book, etcetera?
Dean:So I'm obviously on social media. You know, social media for me was a taboo when I did the last challenge because Special Forces. But I now understand it’s a platform where you need to be sort of promoting. So I am on Instagram as@deanstottand then I am on Twitter@DeanStottSBS, and I’m onFacebook. And so I'll start, you know later on in the year you will start seeing posts of me training and you know, talking about my nutrition and things I didn't really do before because I didn't think people were interested in that, and in the mindsets, we add that. And then the websitewww.deanstott.com.
Lisa:Dean Stott with two T’s.
Dean:We've got the frogman on there and then you can then– and we're going to be posting up there as well. You can buy the book from there or you can get the book fromAmazonoraudio.
Lisa:And it's got the same title as mine so buy bothRelentlessbooks, people, when you're on Amazon or wherever the heck you are, both buyRelentless. Buy Dean Stott’s one and my one, that would be really, really good. Dean, is there any last words that you want to share like to people out there listening, who are just over– like to look at someone like you and they just go, ‘Well, you know, he's amazing and I could never be like that.’ What's your words to them?
Dean:Yeah, you know, I always say don't compare yourself to other people. You know, the problem you have nowadays is social media and the people like, ‘Well, I can't do that’, you know, well you’re not that person. You're unique. And you know, I did it when I was doing the cycling. People out there, ‘Look at Mark Beaumont.’ I'm not Mark Beaumont and things like that. So don't worry about what other people are doing. Just focus on yourself. You know, I always say anticipation is worse than participation.
Lisa:Yeah, I love that. I've quoted that from you.
Dean:A lot of people will tell you why they can't do it. And, you know, just block out those out. And just take it in bite sizes, what I say. You know, if you're gonna, for example, a marathon 26 miles. You wouldn't go try and do 26 miles, you probably wouldn't achieve it. I mean, you'd be so deflated and your self-esteem is– but just set yourself a manageable target: five kilometers, hit that and then you just grow from there.
Lisa:Yeah. There's some fabulous advice. Dean, thank you so much for your time today. You're an absolute superstar. I, you know, or have your, you know what you've done. And thanks for, you know, raising so much money for charities and doing good in the world and being a positive force out there in the world. I think it's really, really important. So thanks.
Dean:Thank you. You’re more than welcome to come and join me anytime on the now.
Lisa:Oh, man. Now I would love to do that. Mum might have something to say.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
29 Aug 2024
Hormones, Brain Injuries, And Neuroinflammation With Dr. Mark Gordon Part 1
00:51:43
In this episode, we welcome Dr. Mark Gordon, a renowned expert in neuroendocrinology, to discuss the critical role hormones play in brain injuries and neuroinflammation. Dr. Gordon sheds light on how hormonal imbalances can exacerbate neuroinflammation, leading to prolonged recovery and chronic symptoms. We explore the importance of testing and optimizing hormones like growth hormone, IGF-1, IGF-BP3, estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, and pregnenolone to support brain health and recovery after traumatic and non traumatic brain injuries (TBI). Additionally, we delve into how environmental toxins and viruses can trigger or worsen neuroinflammation, impacting overall neurological health.
Key Discussion Points:
1. Understanding the Role of Hormones in Brain Health - How hormones like growth hormone, IGF-1, and IGF-BP3 are involved in brain repair and neuroprotection. - The connection between estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, and pregnenolone in maintaining cognitive function and mood stability. - Why hormonal imbalances are common after brain injuries and how they contribute to prolonged neuroinflammation.
2. Growth Hormone and Brain Injuries - The role of growth hormone in promoting neurogenesis and repairing neural tissues. - How low levels of growth hormone can impede recovery from TBI and other brain injuries. - Dr. Gordon's approach to assessing and optimizing growth hormone levels for brain health.
3. IGF-1 and IGF-BP3: Key Players in Neuroprotection - How IGF-1 supports brain cell survival and reduces inflammation. - The significance of IGF-BP3 in regulating IGF-1 activity and its therapeutic potential in TBI. - Strategies for boosting IGF-1 levels naturally and through medical intervention.
4. The Impact of Sex Hormones on Brain Function - Estrogen's neuroprotective effects and its role in reducing neuroinflammation. - Testosterone's influence on brain health, cognition, and emotional regulation. - The benefits of DHEA and pregnenolone in supporting adrenal function and overall hormonal balance.
5. Environmental Toxins, Viruses, and Neuroinflammation - How exposure to environmental toxins can trigger or exacerbate neuroinflammation. - The role of chronic viral infections in contributing to ongoing brain inflammation and hormonal dysregulation. - Dr. Gordon's insights into detoxification strategies and immune support for reducing neuroinflammation.
6. Testing and Optimizing Hormones for Brain Health - The importance of comprehensive hormonal testing in individuals with TBI or chronic neuroinflammation. - Dr. Gordon's protocol for optimizing hormone levels to support brain recovery and cognitive function. - How to work with healthcare providers to develop a personalized hormone optimization plan. You can find out more about Dr Mark Gordon and his work and read his research at https://tbihelpnow.org/
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Meet Annie Doyle, a Sydney-based, 56 year old dedicated old mother of two. Working hard as a Chief Financial Officer for a large disability organisation she somehow finds the time to also be a mountaineering machine who is on a mission to become the first Maori woman to climb the Seven Summits (The highest mountain on every continent and well regarded of as the Holy Grail of mountaineering) She’s 6/7ths of the way there. Her transcontinental summit quest started when she reached the top of our very own Mt. Kosciuszko in 2005 and then Tanzania’s Mt. Kilimanjaro the same year, followed by Mt. Elbrus in Russia in 2006, Mt. Aconcagua in Argentina in 2007 and both Mt. McKinley in Alaska in 2009and Vinson Massif in Antarctica in 2013. Only Everest awaits her. Unfortunately luck hasn’t been on her side…yet. In 2012 she positioned for her first attempt but bad weather made the Khumbu Icefall too dangerous, again she made another attempt in 2014 but the mountain closed following a tragic icefall avalanche that killed 16 Sherpas. In April this year, she was readying for her 3rd attempt, this time from the Tibetan side, but the sheer devastation of the catastrophic Nepalese Earthquake once again closed the mountain and rocked the climbing community to its core with the loss of so many lives. Annie’s 7th summit awaits another season.
22 Feb 2024
The Hallmarks Of Ageing And The Latest Longevity Hacks With Dr Rob Silverman
00:54:50
Dr Robert Silverman is a repeat offender on this show. His incredible wealth of knowledge in the longevity, immune system, microbiome, nutrition and chiropractic arenas is unparalleled.
In this weeks episode we dive into the:
Hallmarks of ageing.
How we can use this knowledge to make a plan to slow our own ageing
Why the immune system is at the base of ageing and how it affects the other hallmarks
How to improve the health of our microbiome for long term health.
What we can learn from centenarians and why the diversity of the microbiome maybe key to their health
How to reboot your immune system
Low level laser therapy
BIO Robert G. Silverman, DC, DACBN, DCBCN, MS, CCN, CNS, CSCS, CIISN, CKTP, CES, HKC, FAKTR Dr. Robert Silverman is a chiropractic doctor, clinical nutritionist, national/international speaker, author of Amazon’s #1 bestseller “Inside-Out Health,” founder and CEO of Westchester Integrative Health Ctr. He graduated magna cum laude from the University of Bridgeport College of Chiropractic and has a Master of Science in human nutrition. The ACA Sports Council named Dr. Silverman “Sports Chiropractor of the Year” in 2015. Dr. Silverman is on the advisory board for the Functional Medicine University and is a seasoned health and wellness expert on both the speaking circuits and the media. Dr. Silverman is a thought leader in his field and practice, a frequently published author in peer-reviewed journals and other mainstream publications.
Dr. Silverman was the principal investigator on two Level 1 laser FDA studies. His new book, Amazon’s best seller, Immune Reboot, was released in December 2022.
You can find out more about Dr Silverman at https://drrobertsilverman.com/dr-silverman-2 Follow him on
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Ep69: The 5 foot 3 body guard, special Agent - Alani Bankhead talks to Lyn Henderson
00:32:14
Ever since Alani was a little girl she always knew she was born to serve others and protect life. That desire led to a life in the United States military.
She became a special agent working for the Air Force and started her career in Japan working a lot of drug cases. She started a country wide programme to prevent the sexual abuse of children via the Internet. From there she deployed to the Middle East where she worked for Special Forces to chase terrorists. Then she went to the headquarters in Quantico where she over saw counter intelligence. She returned to the Middle East doing counter intelligence / counter terrorism work and then she became a senior bodyguard to a senior government official.
Alani talks about pushing the limits in her professional life and how she maintained her resilience throughout.
We would like to thank our show sponsors
The North Face -
Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.
Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt
09 Mar 2023
Urolithin A - A fountain of youth? With Dr Emily Werner
01:03:08
In this weeks episode Lisa interviews Dr Emily Werner nutritionist to the Philadelphia NBA Basketball team and consultant for Timeline Nutrition who produced Mitopure which contains a super excited molecule that you need to know about if you are into anti-aging
One of the hallmarks of aging and at the base of much disease is the dysfunction of mitochondria, the little powerhouses in our cells that literally produce the energy we need to live. As we age or after stresses like viruses, too much exercise, toxins etc we get more dysfunctioning mitochondria and this leads to fatigue, and the breaking down of our health on a cellular level that affects everything we do.
Urolithin A (UA) is a little-known nutrient that is starting to garner a lot of well-deserved attention. Numerous studies are being released demonstrating its powerful effect on muscle health and longevity. UA's benefit to health is due to its ability to stimulate mitophagy, the process by which older, dysfunctional mitochondria get recycled into more efficient, healthier mitochondria.
Urolithin A is not found directly in the food we eat. It is a postbiotic, meaning that the bacteria in our gut convert plant compounds (called polyphenols) into UA. Regularly eating foods high in these specific polyphenols supplies your microbiome with the precursors it needs to generate UA.
In this interview you will learn
What is Urolithin A
How is produced naturally in the body
What super foods contain this molecule
Why only 30% of people can actually make this postbiotic in their microbiomes
What dosage is required to effect mitophagy
What mitophagy is and why is it important
The role of mitochondrial health in longevity
The clinical research going into the effects of this molecule - human and animal trials
If you want to get your hands on this amazing supplement use this code to get a 5% discount
For those in the NZ or outside the states you will need to have a US address to have it sent out. You can get an address super easily by signing up at
Myus.com.
Lisa uses this method to get many items that are only available in the US sent over so do check it out.
Dr Emily Werner
Dr. Werner has over seven years of experience working with athletes in different capacities including individual consultation, research, academia, and the team sport setting. Her expertise is in the assessment of sport nutrition knowledge and behavior, as well as the application of sport nutrition for health and performance.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer With Dr Thomas Seyfried
01:20:17
In this week's episode of "Pushing the Limits I had the privilege of interview world renown cancer researcher Professor Thomas Seyfried the author of over 150 peer reviewed publications and the author of the book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease"
For 30 years Professor Seyfried has been in the trenches as a geneticist and biochemist studying cancer cells and working out the intricacies of how to stop them proliferating. He says there are two primary fuels that cancer cells use in their abhorrent metabolism, Glucose and Glutamine and that if we can cut the fuel supply of these two things to the cancer cells we have a powerful non toxic way of killing cancer cells. He and colleagues designed the Press-pulse: a novel therapeutic strategy for the metabolic management of cancer and in this interview we dive into his latest research and what you can do if you have cancer or want to lower your chances of getting cancer.
If you enjoyed this episodes make sure to check out our Ebook/Interview series "What Your Oncologist isn't telling you" Ebook with 20 world leading experts on this approach and adjunct therapies.
Thomas N. Seyfried received his Ph.D. in Genetics and Biochemistry from the University of Illinois, Urbana, in 1976. He did his undergraduate work at the University of New England, where he recently received the distinguished Alumni Achievement Award. He also holds a Master’s degree in Genetics from Illinois State University. Thomas Seyfried served with distinction in the United States Army’s First Cavalry Division during the Vietnam War and received numerous medals and commendations. He was a Postdoctoral Fellow in the Department of Neurology at the Yale University School of Medicine and then served on the faculty as an Assistant Professor in Neurology.
Other awards and honors have come from such diverse organizations as the American Oil Chemists Society, the National Institutes of Health, The American Society for Neurochemistry, the Ketogenic Diet Special Interest Group of the American Epilepsy Society, the Academy of Comprehensive and Complementary Medicine, and the American College of Nutrition.
Dr. Seyfried previously served as Chair, Scientific Advisory Committee for the National Tay-Sachs and Allied Diseases Association and presently serves on several editorial boards, including those for Nutrition & Metabolism, Neurochemical Research, the Journal of Lipid Research, and ASN Neuro, where he is a Senior Editor.
Dr. Seyfried has over 150 peer-reviewed publications and is the author of the book, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer(Wiley, 1st ed., 2012).
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Peptides, Bioregulators and Longevity Medicine with Dr Suzanne Turner
01:42:35
In this weeks podcast we have double board certified Dr Suzanne Turner of Vines Medical to guest. Dr Turner practices cellular, longevity and Performance Medicine and is an expert on endocrinology, hormone therapy, peptides, and more.She also happens to be a kick ass Power Lifting Athlete (where she finds the time goodness only knows).
In this episode we discuss:
Peptides and how she uses them with her patients and what experiences she has had.
Bioregulators and Dr Bill Lawrence research on Bioregulators and her participation in his trial
We discuss the huge benefits of Hormone Replacement therapy for men and women when done right
We discuss cutting edge techniques, therapies for everything from PTSD to orthopedics.
How to know if you are fully recovered enough to work out at the highest intensity, about HRV
We talk anti-aging and longevity strategies
How resistance training benefits us on our quest for healthy aging and much more
You can reach out to Dr Turner on her instagram at @drsturneror visit her website at https://vinemedical.com/
Dr. Turner is the founder of Vine Medical Associates and the VMA Residency. Double Board Certified, her thriving practice treats executives and athletes from around the world. Practicing Cellular, Longevity and Performance Medicine, Dr. Turner has special interests and experience in bioidentical hormone therapy, metabolic medicine, neurodegenerative disease, and human performance optimization. She also has earned Advanced Certification in Endocrinology and Peptide Therapy. Dr Turner is the leading expert in peptide therapy in the Southeast. She is an award-winning teacher of medical students, residents and physicians while on the Faculty of Emory University. She has also served on the faculty of A4M, IPS, BioTe, SSRP and ACAM. She has been featured on several podcasts including Super Human Radio Network, TRT Revolution, Relentless Vitality, Younique Medical, and Health Matters. Dr Turner spends her free time with her husband and family, studying cellular medicine and Christianity, managing her urban farm, and powerlifting.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Mental Resilience and Endurance: A Journey Across the Ocean with Laura Penhaul
00:50:14
Failure happens to everyone; we will experience it at some point in our lives. Despite our sacrifices and hard work, we may not achieve what we set out to do. It is, however, important to approach failure not as the end of a journey but as a crucial lesson. And it doesn’t matter how many times you fail—physical, emotional and mental resilience will take us one step forward towards our eventual success and victory.
Laura Penhaul joins us in this episode to share the story of her expedition across the Pacific Ocean. She describes the preparations she undertook, from planning the expedition to gaining financial support. Laura also talks about the importance of breaking down the journey and being clear with team dynamics in the expedition’s success.
If you want to know more about the makings of strength and mental resilience in a person, then this episode is for you.
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
Laura worked in elite sport for the Olympics and Paralympics for more than 14 years. As a physical therapist, she was able to see people through their journeys as athletes.
In the face of adversity, Laura found two types of people: those who bounced back from it and those who gave up because of it.
She was inspired by those who wanted to thrive and make the most out of life.
She never experienced rowing before, but she was searching for a challenge. Ocean rowing was something she found ideal.
The expedition gave her a lot of learnings.
[12:58] Gaining Confidence
Reach out to those who have done what you want to do or to those who have expertise.
Laura had to break down the journey and prepare for it: planning the possibility of the route, gaining logistical and structural support, planning out the time frame and preparing the team.
She expected to finish in a year but didn’t. It took four years of planning before they could carry out the expedition.
She had to learn from her failures, figure out her blind spots and reach out to other people for help.
[16:12] Gathering Financial Support and Sponsorships
At first, Laura could not ask for money to support her journey.
She reached out to people who worked in business and sponsorship. They helped her shape her deck, brand and business model.
She also reached out to Mark Beaumont, an elite expedition athlete. She learned from his experience and failures.
With Mark’s help, Laura could have a structure for the timeline, budget and sponsorship.
[20:06] Physical, Emotional and Mental Resilience
Optimise your own elite performance.
Break down the journey and plan everything. Being prepared makes you feel confident when dealing with the unknown.
Have the courage to step away from comfort and the norms.
Push outside of your comfort bubble to reach your full potential.
[25:40] Going Beyond Your Comfort Zone
Laura considers herself a calculated risk-taker.
She does not leap blindly and makes sure not to leave any stone unturned.
It’s not a failure if you learn from it.
Have the physical, emotional and mental resilience and robustness to bounce back and ask where and why you went wrong.
[29:36] Dealing with Failure
You can prepare everything and still fail.
There are things you can’t control. Be adaptable and flexible in your performance.
During difficult times, the strength of Laura’s team was able to support a struggling individual.
Different perspectives help you see things you can and cannot control. It can prevent you from being ill or injured.
[34:42] Team Dynamics
Compared to individual sports, being in a team is difficult.
Expeditions bring out the best and worst in people. You won’t know unless you are in the situation.
Laura wanted her team to be cohesive and transparent. She always confronts an issue and steps forward to speak about it.
A performance psychologist helped them understand the differences in each other's personalities, which helped make their journey a success.
[44:05] Keeping Mindfulness in Moments of Struggle
Leveraging each member’s strengths and differences can end up holding the team together rather than pulling it apart.
When you are struggling, you may show a part of yourself that is cynical and selfish.
Remember: we are all working on our character.
In extreme circumstances, the bad side of ourselves could come out. Dealing with it is part of resilience and teamwork.
7 Powerful Quotes
‘There's people that can go through the same type of thing. And yet one person wakes up, being so thankful that they're alive’ they're now going to make the most of life. And then somebody else that wakes up and they're like, they wish they didn't wake up’.
‘How can I put myself in a situation which is completely unknown, that's kind of gonna make me want to give up? And I want to understand what it is we draw on when we can't give up [and] we've only got one option’.
‘It's all about perspective, isn't it? And it's all about the context that you're in. And this is the thing that I get really passionate about is, I want to optimise people's own elite performance’.
‘It is not a failure unless you don’t learn from it. And leaping sometimes is exactly what you need to do, and it's just not being scared to fall, like just knowing that, you know what, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's got you one step further. And one step closer to finding what the next thing might be’.
‘You kind of just got to crack on and then there's no going back, you can't row backwards, sort of, it's only about having the confidence to step into taking on the Pacific’.
‘You've got to understand that there are things you can't control. So you've done everything you can control. And now the rest is up to the gods, basically. And you're going to have to be able to be adaptable and flexible’.
‘The girls hated confrontation. They weren't used to giving and receiving feedback. That was always felt like a personal threat. I just had to put myself in the barrier first. I be like, “Right, cool, okay, if you're not going to give it and you're going to say everything's rosy when it's not, I’ll pull it out”’.
About Laura
Laura Penhaulis one of the world's most respected physiotherapists. She helps train many of the top athletes in Olympic sailing and the Paralympics.
Laura is known for her nine-month, 9000-mile crossing of the Pacific in a rowboat. She managed a team of four women known as the Coxless Crew; she was the expedition's team leader and organiser. The expedition is featured in a documentary calledLosing Sight of Shore.
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Hi everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits once again. Today, I have another world-leading, actually world-record-holding, superwoman. Now, this lady is LauraPenhaulfrom England, and Laura is one of the world's most respected physiotherapists. She helps train many of the top athletes in Olympic sailing and in Paralympics with people with disabilities. She's done an awful lot in high-performance sport. But what Laura is really known for is that Laura did a 9,000-mile crossing of the Pacific in a rowboat, you heard that right. Right across the Pacific. Nine months it took and she was the team leader and organiser of this whole expedition. She got four women together to do this epic event. And there is a documentary out calledLosing Sight of Shore.
And today we discuss this mammoth expedition that Laura undertook. The funny thing is that Laura hadn't even been a rower before she took this on. But because she had worked so much with high-performance athletes, people pushing the limits of endurance, and people with disabilities doing crazy things. She wanted to understand what is it that makes some people so resilient and strong, and other ones want to give up when they're faced with a trauma. And she thought, 'I don't need to wait until something drastic happens in my life, and my health has taken off me or my mobility, or I have an accident or I have something to wake up. I can actually take on some mammoth task so that I can start to understand what it actually takes and what resilience and strength is all about'. And she felt like she didn't have the right to be leading and guiding other people if she didn't have that experience herself. So she set off on a mission, what she thought would take them a year to do for a status to organise this expedition across the Pacific.
And they knew that taking itfouryears of preparation, we go into the, all the details of putting together such a high-performance team, it's a fantastic interview. She really is a superwoman. I'm in awe over here, I can't imagine being in a 29-foot boat for anything more than about two hours, I reckon, before I'd start going nuts, so she's pretty impressive, this lady. And before we head over to the show, just want to remind you, we've launched now, our patron program for the podcast. So if you want to become a premium member of our podcast tribe, if you like, we'd love you to come and join us here on over topatron.lisatamati.com. And we'd love to see you over, the, it's all about keeping the show going. We've been doing it now for five and a half years each and every episode takes me a long time to put together to chase these world-leading experts, to do the research that I need to do, especially when it's dealing with scientific topics, and a test takes an awful amount of time.
And to keep it going we need your help. And we wanted to give you lots of benefits too so people who do get in behind the podcast and help us provide this super valuable content to everybody get a whole lot of exclusive member benefits. So we'd love you to check it out. Go to patron.lisatamati.com for more information on that. And on that note before we just hit over to Laura, I just want to remind you about my new longevity and anti-ageing supplement NMN Nicotinamide Mononucleotide. You would have heard a couple of times in the podcast I had Dr Elena Seranova and we're going to have her on more often. She's a molecular biologist and tells us all about the ways that we can help with anti-ageing. And one of those things is by taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, which is a very, very powerful supplement. It's an NAD precursor that helps up-regulate the sirtuin genes, helps provide a bigger pool of NAD to every cell in the body and helps on a very, very deep level. The ageing working against the ageing process and who doesn't want to know about them if you want to find out all about it and all the science behind it, please go tonmnbio.nz. Right, now over to the show with LauraPenhaul.
Lisa:Well, hi everyone, and welcome to Pushing the Limits. Today I'm super excited. I have an amazing, amazing guest for you. I really do find the most incredible people and this lady is a superwoman. So welcome to the show. It's really, really nice to have you Laura. Laura Penhaul is sitting in Cornwall in England. Laura, how's your day going? Well, you're not going.
LauraPenhaul:Oh I was gonna say yeah no, it's been great. Do it. Yeah, it's now eight o'clock in the evening. So yeah, no, it's all good. It's been a beautiful sunny day.
Lisa:Oh lovely, lovely. So Laura is an amazing person who does expeditions and as a physio, Laura, can you give us a little bit of background? I want you to tell your story in your words, give us a bit of a synopsis about what you do and what the critical things. I mean I've done a bit in the intro so, but I really want your words, if you like.
Laura:Yeah, no props well, firstly, yes. Thanks, Lisa for having me on the show. It's been an honour because I think you're a superwoman more than me.
Lisa:Hell no.
Laura:But no I mean yeah, my background is I worked in elite sport, in Olympic and Paralympic sport for over 14 years. Sort of went to Vancouver, London, Rio, Tokyo cycles. And yeah during that kind of journey, and that was as lead physio in different sports, whether that was downhill skiing, whether it was with British Athletics Paralympic team. And more recently, I was with the British sailing team. And during that sort of journey as a physio like, the role that we have, as physios, physical therapists are very much kind of, you know, you're seeing somebody through a journey. And like when I worked with them and we've worked with patients in trauma, worked versus kind of, you know, in spinal cord injuries, and then straight to Paralympic sport, I've been surrounded by people that have been faced with significant adversity.
And it's sort of, it's always along my journey of my career, have I been fascinated by understanding the person in front of me and kind of going, there's usually two types of people when they've been thrown a massive curveball, like an RTA or road traffic accident, or something horrendous, that is completely changed their life for the rest of their life. Those two, there's people that can go through the same type of thing. And yet one person wakes up, being so thankful that they're alive, they're now going to make the most of life. And then somebody else that wakes up and they're like, they wish they didn't wake up.
And as a physio dealing with those two people, you've got to have a very different approach. And in the, kind of—to me, understanding that person that wants to give up and actually being able to change their mindset and facilitate, go shoulder to shoulder with them is really powerful. And then those people that do wake up and want to thrive, like they're the ones that have inspired me to do more stuff, because I'm like, why do we wait for adversity? Why do we wait for something to be a curveball before we then, like, start to go, ‘Oh, my God, I need to make the most of life like I’m fit. And I'm healthy. I need to make the most of life because clearly stuff could happen in an hour’s time.
Lisa:At any time.
Laura:Exactly. So that's kind of what then drove me to start to do more and more personally, and kind of a bit of exploratory expedition space. And then the real, so that led me to ride the Pacific Ocean, which is kind of you know what, we're talking about.
Lisa:You said it again, you just rode the Pacific Ocean is, I just dropped it as a, to yeah, and then I rode the Pacific Ocean. So you were into sailing and into rowing and into all of that sport, as prior, this was your thing?
Laura:No. Well, that's the thing, no wasn't in all honesty. I was, I'm kind of a jack of all trades like I love anybody, any athletes, anybody that I work with, I want to understand them. And I want to understand the sport, the environment that they're in. So when I was working with skiers, I went off and did a ski season. I learned to ski when I, and I'm somebody that, yeah, I love to do different sports and outdoors, the sort of outdoor environments. And if I was working with marathon runners, I was like, I can't fully treat them if I don't understand, if I haven't run a marathon like, to me, I need to experience what they've experienced, even in a small way to kind of get a glimpse of the environment.
So I would run a marathon, same with triathletes, and, you know, not to the extent of your, sort of did a half Ironman, and then the point was the Paralympic cohort when I was working with them. I was like, this is an area that I can't untap you know, yeah.
Lisa:Yeah.
Laura:I can do it, but I can't understand what it is to be a Paralympian.
Lisa:Yep.
Laura:However, how can I put myself in a situation which is completely unknown, that's kind of gonna make me want to give up. And I want to understand what it is we draw on when we can't give up you know, we've only got one option.
Lisa:Yep.
Laura:So I kind of, that's what I was searching for, for a couple of years of searching for something that was going to be out of my comfort zone completely and was going to be a challenge on multiple levels.
Lisa:Sure must have been.
Laura:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I guess at the time, I was doing, sort of, triathlons. I was enjoying them. But anything that was cycling, running, swimming, I felt like this would be expected and I kind of would already be a bit familiar with it. So when I suddenly heard about ocean rowing, I was like, ‘Oh my god, this is ideal'. I've always wanted to row but never did it. Then never got a chance to, so I'd never rode before. I've never lost sight of shore. Like, you know, I've never been out at sea properly, never sailed or any of that stuff. Well, a bar like going on a few trips. But yeah, not a sailor by anyway, shape or form.
So it was, I was, and that just connected, you know, when something, an opportunity comes up and you're like, ‘This is exactly what I've been looking for'. And it was a proper light bulb moment. And the thing for me, it's the one time in my whole life that I've been so focused, like, ‘I have to make this happen'. Because I know, in my heart of hearts, I know what I'm going to get out of this is going to be huge.
Lisa:Wow.
Laura:And that basically is why starting point with it, it was kind of, I didn't know how to row, I went from being a marathon weight of like, something stupid, like 58 kilos up to, I had to go up to 72 kilos to grow on mass, you know, to be not skinny, because we lose a lot of weight out there. I had to put a team together, whereas, in my personal sport, I was doing quite individual sports. So, you know, I had to work out the team cohesion, the whole team dynamics, and recruitment. I had to figure out what the boat was, get it built, like then set up this as a business, you know, so. So yeah, so the whole journey it was, I mean, now on reflection, there's so many learnings from it. But I absolutely thrive from the self-awareness piece, how much I've learned about myself, and the different perspectives. And you know, approaching that row, my approach is very much like, this is all brand spanking new. So if I can approach it with a blank canvas, if I can have a real adaptive mindset, and if I surround, if I've now gone on the other side of the table, rather than surrounding athletes, if I surround myself with the relevant expertise, how far can I get? And how far can I really experience that athlete?
Lisa:Yeah, sorry, just my brother's just come in the middle of the podcast it’s all right. There. Come on Mitch, get around the other side. Yeah, this is podcast life for you. Didn't tell your brother you’re recording.
There was so much here that I wanted to unpack. Because there was like, you just skipped over a ton of stuff. Number one, you had no idea. So what gave you the confidence, what was the little voice inside you saying, ‘I can do this’, when you're in a completely unknown sport? Like what was it that made you think, ‘Oh, yeah, I can ride across the Pacific on a row across the Pacific, you know, for nine months, and that all worked out well'. You know, how did you even come up with a concept for something so audacious?
Laura:Well, I mean, it's all about small pieces, isn't it, and kind of reaching out to those that have done stuff and those that you respect and have the expertise. So it was basically breaking it, breaking the journey down. First of all, one is that route even possible? So initially, somebody had asked me to be part of the Indian Ocean, and they were putting a team together and then I evolved it into the Pacific. And then somebody, I was like, well, actually, originally, it might have been the new ocean wave race, which just goes from San Fran to Hawaii. And I was like, well, that's not the Pacific. That's a third of it, like so if I'm going to say I'm going to row the Pacific. I want to row, can I row all of it?
Yeah. So it was then reaching out to somebody from a logistical point of view and a support structure point of view saying, ‘Is this even feasible? And what would it look like?’ And when they said, 'Yes'. I was like, right, okay. So that's route can get involved, this is what it's going to look like. We're going to need to start, we're going to need to replenish, but it's doable. But it's going to take this time frame. And then it was kind of like right, in order for me to get prepped and the team to get prepped, what's the time frame that it's going to take to do that? Let's be realistic. And I wasn't realistic. I was naive, I thought it would only take us about a year to get to the start line. And hell no. It took four years to get to start, like four years.
Lisa:Four years. That’s massive.
Laura:Yeah, so it was. But interestingly, there's so many parallels, you know, like working in Olympic sport, everything's in four-year cycles for the Olympic cycle. And so there's so much that I learned through that process of, I thought I was only going to go in a year's time. That didn't happen. We didn't have the funding. I didn't got the team, the boat wasn't finished, you know, it was like, right, I need to go again. I need to reset. I need to sort of keep the ball rolling. But I need to learn from what failures have had here. And how do I overcome them?
Lisa:Wow.
Laura:The second year, I didn’t quite have to win I thought it was but it's all that sort of stuff. You go, yeah, you can give up why it's such a clear vision with it. And the question in my head was, ‘There's going to be an all-female team that is going to do this at some point. Like, why can't it be me? And I'm sure that will happen in my lifetime'. So what am I missing? What are the things that I can't see? That's in my blind spots. And that's where I started to reach out, to pull in different people to say, right, ‘This is the problem I've got, how can you help me’? How can you see and it was that reaching out for help with the right expertise that got us to the start line? It wasn't me. It was the collective bigger support team around us.
Lisa:How did you even, like the resources and the money in the financial and the sponsorship, when you didn't have a—I mean, you had a backstory as a high-performance expert, and helping other people in training and so on. But, you know you didn't have, you weren't—there were no huge amount of resources behind you. How did you—I know what I had to go through to get to the races that I did. And that was probably a heck of a lot less than what you had to go through. How did you face that? And what did you learn on the business side of the journey, the marketing, all of that sort of stuff?
Laura:Yeah, I mean–
Lisa:Selling the idea to people.
Laura:Yeah, the money. It kind of—it’s exactly that. I think it's showing the belief, like the absolute dogged determinedness, that this is going to happen, and you know, like, I put in my own swag to it. I paid for the boat built in the first place. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this, like, do you want to be part of it or not? But I want to do this regardless. Yeah.
Lisa:So basically, how I did too.
Laura:This is not my approach. But you know, I mean, I say that, but let's face it, I was useless at kind of asking for money, like, you know, it's great, you're doing it for charities. But to ask to support me, and like our journey. I was crap. You know, I'm a physio, I like to help people. I don't like asking for help. You know, at the time, I was very much in that poor sort of leadership style. And that's a big, that was a big learning point. But then reaching out to people that do work in business and do work in sponsorship. And they were the people that then helped me to shape sort of your sponsorship deck and how you need to brand it, what's your, you know, the colours, the language, all of that type of stuff.
Lisa:Wow.
Laura:And I loved it because I mean, I love learning. So suddenly, I was entering a snippet of a different world that I knew nothing about previously. Same with like the PR side of it, I had no idea but that was great fun, and, and the business model itself, like yeah became a business and I thought it was all about the physical and that was totally not it was 10% of like the project. And then yeah, so like you say, setting up a business no Scooby-Doo about and so simplicity was reaching out to people that had been successful had done it before. And the likes of, you know, Mark Beaumont, that we've talked about before like Mark. Mark is somebody that's an elite athlete, expedition athlete, he'd actually at the time rode the Atlantic, and unfortunately, they nearly died at sea. So I'd reached out to him to learn from his experiences from the actual failures, more, I don't want necessarily the successes, but, and he then was great at providing me with a bit more of the structure for you know, the timeline, the budget that this, that in the other room.
Lisa:Wow.
Laura:How you sort of need to get the sponsorship. And yeah, so I think to me, it's about as you know, if you hold, if this is a new space and you hold an ego thinking you're going to, then you're never gonna get anywhere.
Lisa:You’re gonna get your ass kicked.
Laura:Yeah, basically, just whereas for me, yeah, well, I don't mind. I don't mind saying I don't know something. I'm happy to ask why and how and who can help…
Lisa:You can be very humble, we can tell that five minutes of talking to you, you know.
Laura:Thank you very much.
Lisa:And how did you get a team together? Because you get four ladies, you rode the Pacific and people were talking like nine months and a rowboat unsupported, like from California to Cairns, wasn’t it? It's great. Yeah. There's a documentary out on it. If people want to find out we'll work out with it with the link sir. And how they can get hold of it perhaps afterwards. Four ladies in a rowboat, rowing across the lake. I mean, to the average person who doesn't know anything about rowing? It sounds absolutely insane. And I, like, I said to my husband, I was interviewing this morning and I said I couldn't last 24 hours in a rowboat. I probably couldn't last four hours in a rowboat. How do you comprehend nine months like that for me? Is, I mean, I've never done anything on that scale, of that long. You know, like, the longest thing I ever did was run through New Zealand which was a sustained effort over 42 days. And that well nearly bloody killed me, you know. But that's not nine months, you know, little logistics and all that. Wow.
Laura:Yeah, but you know what, I've been, flipping heck, you know. 40 odd days that you're running the lengths of New Zealand, like that is insane. So you could have...
Lisa:That’s a hell lot easier than rowing.
Laura:It’s not though! I mean, it's all about perspective, isn't it? And it's all about the context that you're in. And this is the thing that I get really passionate about is, I want to optimise people's own elite performance, like, not comparative to anybody else, like, what's your—so what you're really is your achievement of like, 42 days and everything else you've achieved is huge. Whereas somebody else's 42 days of running, will be running a marathon like that will be—it's about that gap analysis, like, where you'd got yourself to, to then be able to take on the 42-day sort of challenge. Like that was a big old leap, but you're already like, sort of—your experiences, and you'd prepped yourself for that.
Lisa:Yes, years and years.
Laura:Yeah, and where is somebody who's on a couch, but then is setting their sights of running a marathon. That's their 42 days, like, that's their elite performance for them. And the row for us? Yeah, it was a big old leap, but it was fundamentally, it was broken down. Like I think sometimes you must have found this with the run, you're talking about there and everything else. You've got to break it down, like you certainly in the preparation phase, you've got to plan every inch and every sort of crook of it within its life so that you don't leave any stone left unturned. You feel like you're best prepared, that gives you confidence, to then have capacity to deal with the unknown when you're faced with it. So to me, that sort of, I always wanted to leave, like, at least 30% of capacity in my headspace to make sure I can react to when I need to.
Lisa:You can handle it.
Laura:Exactly, and deal with the unknown. If I mean, if we'd gone on that row in that first year, Jesus Christ, like most of it was unknown, like that. I was so naive, it was ridiculous. But by the time you know, it's four years down the line, I felt so confident in actually we've trialed the boat, we've done 72 hours, we've done a couple of weeks. We've done team testing, we've done routines, we've done steep depot, we've done the training, we've done the site support, you know, all of those, every aspect of it. I feel like we took out and then it was a case of right, well, then we just need to do this on a day and day out. And then however long that's gonna last for it's just sticking to routines, which you know, the same in whatever you do.
Lisa:The more you do the more it becomes normal.
Laura:Exactly. And then it's kind of like, Well, actually, once you lose sight of shore, whether you're out there for five days, five weeks, five months, actually doesn't make much difference.
Lisa:You’re in this shit anyway. Too far from home anyway, you've lost sight of shore!
Laura:Yeah, you kind of just got to crack on and then, you know, there's no going back, you can't row backwards, sort of, it's only about, you know, having the confidence to step into taking on the Pacific. And for us, you know, yes, we rowed the Pacific literally, but to me, it was the essence of everybody's got their own Pacifics to cross like...
Lisa:Yes.
Laura:...our film’s calledLosing Sight of Shorebecause it's about having the courage to lose sight of shore, like, have that sort of courage to just step away from the comfort, step away from the knowns. And like, Oh, my God, you know, that's where life just opens up and expose.
Lisa:Because you know, I had Paul Taylor, who's a neuroscientist, and ex-British Navy guy, and exercise physiologist on the show last week, and he's talking about the small bubble where you can live in or the big bubble. And the big bubble is where we all want to be, you know, where we’re reaching our potential and we are filling and where are all these amazing things that we could do. We know that that bubble was there. But we're all scared living in this little comfort zone. And how do you push outside because that outside is risk of failure, and in your case risk of dying. You know, there was so much that you put on the line physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, relationships, you know. You name it, you put it on the line for this one thing, and that is living in that big bubble and scaring the crap out of yourself and doing it anyway.
Most people have this tendency to want to be comfortable in and I see this as a massive problem in our society today is that we are all cozy and comfortable and sitting on the couch watching Netflix and we are warm and we don't push ourselves for the gloom we don't push yourself. And this leads to disaster when it comes to resilience and being able to cope because you're been through this amazing adventure and expedition and you've risked everything, you must have an inner confidence that is just—and I know that you won't have it in all areas of life because this is certainly specific. And I know how that works because I'm really good and some things and really crap in others and I'm still working on my mindset in this area and that area or whatever, we're work in progress but you when you've lifted up your horizons to that big, nothing must daunt you in a way. Like he must be like, ‘Okay, whatever is coming at me, I can probably handle it'. Because you know, inside you have that resilience, which is so important.
Laura:Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. It's about context, isn't it? Like I—you know, I'm a risk-taker, but I'm a really calculated risk-taker, right.
Lisa:Yeah.
Laura:Exactly. So kind of the Pacific seems like it's ridiculous, and it's life threatening. I mean, I didn't leave any stone left unturned. I had military guys helping us to make sure we'd sort of not left stuff unturned. We went through survival practice. We, I mean, there was everything and the amount of sort of, you know, routines we had on the boat, leashes, and kind of safety equipment was next to none. Because I was like, the risk we've got is getting separated from the boat. So I'm risk-aware, really risk-aware. And, and kind of, and make sure that sort of don't leave any stone unturned so then I feel confident to go forwards. I wouldn't just leap into it like blindly.
Lisa:Yep, you shouldn’t.
Laura:Yeah exactly.
Lisa:Because you will die.
Laura:Yeah. But I mean, it's no different if you watch, I don't think like, you know, you watch Alex Honnold, climbing free solo, you know, the El Cap, sort of the climb, if anybody’s seen that film. I mean, it's phenomenal. And anybody would, you know, you watch it. You're like, ‘Oh, my God, that's insane. He’s free climbing that like, what if he just slipped’? What if this? What if that? But look at his meticulous approach to it.
Lisa:Yeah, one hand wrong.
Laura:Exactly. But then his meticulous approach, he hasn't just woken up that day one, right. So I'm going to climb up, you know, sort of freestyle at this thing. He's like, he's been off top-roping with it, he is kind of lead climbed it. He's, kind of, known every single holding place he's written it, he’s drawn it, he’s visualising it. And he's only done it when he feels completely ready, prepped. And that actually, there's no move in that that is going to be a risk. So, therefore, he's a calculated risk-taker. And it is extreme when you watch it, but the preparedness is totally there.
Lisa:I couldn't do it. I didn't put the parachute on as I'm halfway down. You know, you do learn from that, you know. I remember going out into the race in Niger, which was 353Ks across one of the most dangerous landscapes in you know, places on Earth, countries on Earth. And we were meant to have food come from France, and it didn't arrive. And I wasn't prepared. I didn't have my own stash, I didn't, my husband at the time, my ex-husband there. He did, you know, like, and when you're doing things like that, and you end up with food poisoning, and you're, you know, vomiting and shitting your way across the Sahara. And you realise, you know, you could have avoided that. That’s sort of a big lesson and do your preparation better, you know. Don't be so cavalier with your, ‘I am going to go and, you know, run 100 miles, and I haven't even trained for a marathon yet'. No, no, you know, and I had to learn those things the hard way because I had a tendency just to dive in. And this is all exciting. And let's do it.
Laura:But then you learned that didn’t you?
Lisa:Yeah, but it's not a good way to learn in the middle of the Sahara. It’s better to learn previously.
Laura:Yeah, that is sure. But yeah, I mean, you still but you learn and I think that's one of the biggest takeaways, of whenever we talk about failure and stuff. It is not a failure, if you, unless you don’t learn from it. And leaping sometimes is exactly what you need to do, and it's just not being scared to fall, like just knowing that, you know what, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's got you one step further. And one step closer to finding what the next thing might be.
Lisa:Yeah.
Laura:So yeah, just it's having that like you say, that the sort of the robustness, the resilience or whatever it is to bounce back to kind of jump back up to ask the questions. ‘Well, why didn't that work? And let's try it a different way', or learn from it and do something.
Lisa:Yeah, like you said, You reached out to Mark and he'd had, you know, nearly died and had actually failed in that particular expedition, done lots of other crazy stuff, but you know, and that one and it is those things like you are risking failure and you have to understand it from the outset. That you can take care of all the things you can prepare. You can get everything and you're still risking because, if this was easy, everyone would be doing it. And you have to be okay with the—this is something I try and get my athletes to understand. When you're actually done the work, you've done the boulder, you've done the—all the hard stuff that you knew now standing at the start line, that's actually to have time to celebrate and go, you know, ‘I've done the hard work. Now it's up to whatever's going to come my way'. And like you say, being able to adapt and to have the flexibility to take whatever's coming at you, which isn't always easy, but you have to sort of give up those—I think the consequences of what if, what if, what if, because if you’re constantly asking yourself, for ‘What if I don't make that time?’ You know, say you're running a marathon, or I want to do it in under three and a half hours, or whatever the case may be, and then you're so like, ‘Oh, no’, and then it takes you three hours and thirty-two and you know, ‘I'm a failure’, you know, like, hang on a minute, no, hang on. That's not how it works.
Laura:Yeah.
Lisa:Yeah, you've got to understand that there are things you can't control. So you've done everything you can control. And now the rest is up to the gods, basically. And you're going to have to be able to be adaptable and flexible. And that was one of the things in your website, talking about adaptive, being adaptive in your performance. And I think that's a really good thing because we cannot control like… You can be having a bad day at the office and get up and you feel sick and your immune system’s down and you've got your period and you've, you know, whatever the case may be. And you weren't bargaining with that, you know, so you have to be able to work, ‘I need to still go because there's no way back. How do I deal with it’? You know?
Laura:Yeah, and I think it's a really valid point. Because I mean, even in the row halfway through, and it's in the films, it's not kind of confidential stuff. One of the girls, like, she just completely changed her personality, right, because that was exactly the problem. She thought she could control the boat. She thought, you know, she was a rower. Out of all of us, she was somebody that actually had rowed since she was a kid and stuff. She thought ocean rowing was, you know. She didn't want to lose the passion. Unfortunately, yeah, it killed her passion. She didn't know then, she lost the sense of identity, all of that stuff.
Lisa:Oh yeah, real tough.
Laura:Yeah, awful. And, but because she was trying to control the boat, you know, like, the current, the wind was against us, like, those are things you cannot control. It’s a one ton boat, not one person is going to be able to control moving that in the direction you want it to go in. And so, but it was the collective of the team that enabled us to be able to rally around and understand, first of all, recognise the change in personality, it was a behaviour, it was yeah, there was something underlying. It was not her—well, it was, but there was something emotional that she couldn't verbalise straightaway. So hence, she just changed her personality type.
Lisa:Wow.
Laura:And then it was like the strength of the team to be able to rally together to support that. So kind of come at it from the right approach that she was able to share it, to then collectively go, we just need to see a different perspective on this stuff. And I think that's where, you know, a vast dynamic sort of team, you know, a diverse team sorry is what I meant, has got so much strength in it, because you know, what, when you see it through your own lens, there's only sort of one way. Whereas if you've got some diversity there, I just think it brings a different perspective. And suddenly, you're able to see, you can't control the uncontrollable, you know, you can only control the controllables. You can't control what's out of control.
And those things are the weather that is, you know, yes will prevent being ill or injured. But that might well happen. That, you know, is what it is. And if the boat sort of fails, but you whatever, then those are only three things that are going to be out of our control. And if anything happened there, then I wouldn't be. I would have been upset, I would be upset, but I wouldn't be throwing my toys out the pram because it isn't something we could control. And if the row didn't happen, we didn't finish because one of those three things, that is what it is.
Lisa:Yeah, it is what it is. And you've done your utmost. And I mean, I've failed on different expeditions and things that I’ve done, like really fallen on my face, you know, with, you know, documentary crews there have captured all on film as you just absolutely completely faceplant. And, you know, and it takes a long time to get up again, and it knocks the crap out of you. And, you know, but it's part of that, okay, well, this is the game wherein, you know, we’re pushing the limits, and sometimes, you know, you are human and you don't have the resources or one of the things that I find really, really I'd love to and I think this probably needs its own podcast is the whole team dynamic thing. I mean, it's one thing to be a solo athlete that does things, you know, but it's a—couple of times when I've had to be in a team situation. I find it really, really tough because you were reliant...
I did one in the Himalayas, and we're trying to do the world's highest marathon ever done. And I was with a guy who was a mountaineer and used to altitude and very at home in that space. And I wasn't. And I don't—I've done a couple of things at altitude and sort of survive by the skin of my teeth. I'm an asthamtic and I don't really do well on the mountains. So take on, you know, the world's highest mountain. Good idea. And we'd be in shape. And I got sick. I got altitude sickness, and I couldn't even start my body. I couldn't even tie my shoelaces.
But the worst thing was that he changed. The person that he was down here was not the person that he was up there, and, it ended up being quite nasty, and quite, detrimental. And he's not here to defend himself. So I'm not gonna say anything too much. But it wasn't a nice situation to be in — I did not trust that if I was in the shutout there, that we would work together as a team to get through it. I felt like, now, he wouldn't do that.
And then so now I'm like, very, very always aware of if I'm teaming up with people like we've got at the moment, this weekend in my hometown, that Oxfam 100, it's 100-kilometre event where lots of just normal everyday people are doing 100Ks, which is like amazing, walking, and they're doing it in, you know, teams of four, and the staff are going to go through... And there'll be people that are, you know, expeditions bring out the worst and bring out the best in people. And you don't know until you're in the situation with them, which way are they going to go, and which way you're going to go. I mean, I can become, I've been a really horrible person on some of my, you know, with my crew on different occasions where I've just lost my shit because I'm in so much pain, sleep deprivation, motions are up the wazoo. And you just, you know, you're snappy, irritable, you know, just horrible. Afterwards, I’m heading to go and say, ‘I'm very sorry'. You know?
So how did you deal with that over nine months like that on steroids? Like the dynamic—four women—everybody's having their highs and lows at different points in there. How did you cope with that? I mean, you're obviously, you've mentioned the one person and how you helped pull together, it takes incredible leadership to keep a team like that together for nine months, no matter how wonderful you all are.
Laura:Yeah, that I mean, don't get me wrong, you still have arguments and stuff, but it was all in the preparation. And it was, we knew I mean, so it is a 29th version rowing boat, right. So it's kind of the size of Greg Rutherford's, it's got the world record for the long jump, right? So it is, kind of, his long jump is the size of our boat. So it's a really small space. And then when you're cramped into the cabin, there's two of you. And if it's stormy, then all four of you are either in that or two in each cabin. So it's a tight, confined space. So it was really clear from the outset that this team had to be, we had to be cohesive, we had to be really transparent. And something I was particularly pedantic about was, I never want to leave a permanent issue. Like if there's an issue, we need to confront it, we will have to step forward into it. We can't, I don't want any bitchiness like, there was, that was always been, sort of my approach to most things. Like, I can't stand the whole talking to other people, rather than talking to the individual that you've got an issue with. You just need to step into that as much as it might feel uncomfortable.
And I guess, working in a performance context, we're scrutinised on a daily basis, you know. We're kind of everybody's asking you why what are you doing, you know, type stuff, you've got to justify, you feel like you're under a spotlight all the time. So you start to feel this kind of separation, you know, look kind of right. No, this is they're asking me that because of the person in front of us or the, you know, the end goal, that's what it's about. It's got nothing to do with me personally. We're just trying to optimise what we need to do. So when, my, I pulled this, the sort of the team came together, a lot of it, I was like, how do we stress test this, like, we have to stress test it because–
Lisa:Hell yeah.
Laura:–exactly. And that's where I, you know, I started working with Keith, the performance psychologist. I reached out to him so I was like, there's got to be more depth to this, you know, we need tools we need to I need to know what I'm going to draw on when I'm wanting to give up like, what's going to be my go-to’s, I'm going to, I need to know how I can respond and react to different personalities and stuff and how they're going to react to each other.
So Keith was the absolute rock to the success of our journey, in all honesty. I worked with him for four years and I still worked with him. I still work with him, sorry, to this day. And Keith, sort o—he enabled us to sort of understand the differences in our personalities from the basics of just doing psychometrics and stuff, but pretty in-depth ones. And then analyzing that a little bit more and playing it out in different scenarios, and then really forcing us to kind of do the round table. Yeah, because—and the girls hated confrontation. They weren't used to giving and receiving feedback. That was always felt like a personal threat. Yeah. So I just had to put myself in the barrier first. So I be like, ‘Right, cool, okay, if you're not going to give it and you're going to say everything's rosy when it's not, I’ll pull it out'. ‘So this is what's not going so well. And this is not going so well. Right now give it back to me, hit me’, like because then as soon as I've given it they're happy to give it back to me because I think I'm being—yeah exactly. That's fine.
And then I would show them that I was learning from it because I was. And there was— I— they would call me, I would have Laura number one, Laura number two, my personalities. And they—I didn't realise that until sort of, you know, going through the row and they're like, ‘Oh my god, it's Laura number two'. And Laura number two is somebody that when she starts getting, like, tired, hungry, all of that gubbins and, and sort of just a bit over it, I start getting really assertive. I'm very tunnel vision, and my empathy just goes. Whereas normal time, like I've got heaps of the empathy, until it gets to a point…
Lisa:Yeah, yeah. So like me.
Laura:And so they’d be like, all right, Laura number two. Because we then had a language that was a little bit disconnected to the personal and it made a bit of fun of it, then we sort of were able to sort of take a pause, hear it and stuff.
But we had loads of loads of methodologies that we built, we'd worked on to try and get to that point. And that was sort of to the point with there, though, is that is not to say we didn't have any arguments, because we did like, I mean Nat and I, in particular, completely different personalities. She is like a, she's a beautiful character. She is Miss Mindful, she is in the moment, and she is just totally there. She's talking about the sky and the sea and the colours. Whereas I'm Miss Planner. Like I'm already in Cannes, I'm thinking about fear, I’m planning, and what do we need to do, what do we need to sort out? So, you know, when we did the team testing before, this was during selection of the team. I remember when I met Nat, I was like, ‘Oh, god, no, we are poles apart. There's just no way', you know because I was trying to see it through. I was only seeing it through my own lens of who I was getting a rapport with.
But I brought her onto the team testing weekend, which was, I'd gone to some ex-military guys. And I said, ‘Look, we need to be tested. I need to see what we're like when we're cold, we’re hungry, really sore, in pain. You need to physically push us. You need to mentally push us'. Well. And so we did like a 72-hour sleep depot type thing, you know, in the Brackens in Wales, yeah. On reflection that was like, yeah, that was it was great fun and obviously hated it during. I remember, like during it, sort of Nat in particular, as a personality that stood miles out because when she came on to it, I was thinking oh she can come along. But she's, I don't think that I’m going to be selecting her. And then Nat was the one that, you know, she might not have been the fittest. But even when she was struggling, and she was in pain, she had a sense of humour. When I was starting to struggle, she made me laugh. And I was like, ‘Oh my god, there's not many people that can do that while I'm in that space'.
Lisa:Yeah.
Laura: And I'm like, this isn't just about me. But for the comfort of the team, like we need that. Because otherwise, I will make this too serious. I will. When it gets into it, it will be too boring and serious. I need a sense of humour in this. And she is, she's got it in abundance. And she kept us at the moment.
Lisa:Wow, yep.
Laura:As well. Like, I needed that mindfulness when we're out to sea because otherwise, I wouldn't have remembered half the things that went on and I wouldn't have recognised and seen it.
Lisa:Isn't that amazing? So looking at the strengths and differences can actually end up being the thing that holds you together rather than pulls you apart.
Laura:A hundred percent.
Lisa:And I just think in this space I have to connect you with Paul Taylor, he will love you. He's a resilience expert that I was mentioning before and yeah, I think it when you have characters and I've started to do this just with for myself even now I have these different characters, you know, there's the good me and there's bad me and the good means like Wonder Woman, she can do anything and she's amazing.
And he has all these character traits that you know I aspire to and want to have and that side of me and then the other side's a real bitch, you know, she's a horrible, cynical, selfish person and those are both of me. And I know when you put this on—Paul talks about doing like cartoon characters and putting speech bubbles on them and actually giving them life and because it puts you outside of these characters that are fighting in your head, and you're trying to be that good one you want to be, but when you're hungry and cold and freezing, and you haven't slept in three days, and you're struggling somewhere, and God knows where. And you just want to go home and cry and hide under the covers and get mummy to give you a chicken soup. Well, you—it puts it outside of you, and it helps you see what you're doing.
And even in daily things like, you know, I've been rehabilitating my mum now for five years, seven days a week. And you know, beginning first three years, it was like eight hours a day. So it was just, it was full, full-on. And then even longer than that in the first year. And I catch myself sometimes being so short and irritable because I'm like trying to multitask and trying to run my businesses and she's waiting for me and you know, like, you just find yourself snapping at somebody when you just feel like, you know, that asshole is sure is present, you know, and you're just like listening to yourself going, ‘How the hell do I get a grip on this?’
We're all human. And we're all working on this. And, you know, I go to my mum and I put her in bed at night time and a cuddle. And tell her, I say, 'You know, I'm sorry for being a bitch today, Ma. I’m sorry for snapping at you'. And she's so lovely. She's like, 'Oh, that's all right'. Like, you know. But we have moments where we're just not nice, and when you're in these extreme circumstances fad, the ones that come out, and this is a part of the dynamic thing that I find really, really fascinating in that whole resilience and teamwork, and how do you bring it all together? So, you know, we're going to have to wrap up this one, because I've really enjoyed talking to you, Laura. But I really would like to have you on a couple of times, because I think there's much more to this actual story because we haven't even got to talking about well, what was it actually like to row? How did you, you know, do, what did you actually do on a daily basis? And how do you plan for such a thing? And how do you have such a big project and deal with it? And so I'm really glad that we've made this connection, and I'm very, very keen to have you on the show again, if you, because we've really just been part one, I think.
Laura:Let's see… No, I’ll be honoured to come back on. There’s so much I think we connect with in, and we can talk about for sure, especially in that headspace how we can be… What we've both learned from the experiences that we faced and continue to learn, I think is always an exciting journey.
Lisa:Yeah.
Laura:Yeah, I'd be honoured to come back on it. It’s been great.
Lisa:That would be fantastic because I think also the work that you've done with Paralympians and, you know, people that have worked with disabilities and trauma, we haven't even unpacked that either. Because I think that, you know, we can learn a heck of a lot from people that have gone through, you know, all these dramas and so on, me, I learn every day from Mum, like, her mindset is just like, incredibly strong, resilient. And so I'd like to unpack some of that stuff as well. So Laura, thank you very much for your time today. I think you're a rock star, where can people find you? And where can they get involved in what you're doing? And, you know, do whatever you got available? Because you've got some really good lessons to share with people. So tell us where we can find you.
Laura:Yeah, I mean, on usual social media, sort of, the Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn, just@laurapenhaul. And that sort of, you know, P-E-N-H-A-U-L is my surname. So yeah, reach out to that we've also got our endurance book. So where we've sort of added science behind, kind of some of the endurance sort of focus is on GCN, which is aGlobal Cycling Network website, or our podcast isEnduranceas well, which is where's Mark Beaumont, which I co-author on.
Lisa:So I'm very keen to meet and hopefully get on the show as well. Yeah, hook me up there.
Laura:Yeah, Keith will get you on that as well. I think you've got a lot to add and share their experiences for sure.
Lisa:I'd love to. That would be an absolute honor. Laura, you're one hell of a strong woman. I can't wait to see where you go and in the future in what you know, what you take on. God forbid is probably going to be big, and thank you for sharing. I think you have such great knowledge to share with people and you have a duty to get that information out there because this is the sort of stuff that helps people. So thank you very much for your time today Laura.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team atlisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
09 Aug 2018
Ep 79: Learn why you aren't getting the results you deserve with your training
00:14:18
Do you feel like you are hitting your head against the brick wall sometimes, training hard and eating right and still putting on weight or getting unfitter?
Lisa Tamati Ultra Endurance Athlete and Neil Wagstaff Exercise Scientist from Running Hot Coaching explain why you might be struggling to get the same results as the person next to you even though you are training and eating the same.
Find out what other elements are in play in regards to your fitness and health results and what you can do to improve your performance and health.
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Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
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Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
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15 Sep 2022
My Research Deep Dives - From Blood Chemistry To Hormones, To Microbiome To DNA - What You Need To Know
00:47:27
This week on "Pushing the Limits" Lisa does a solo cast and talks about all the exciting areas she has been researching. From her favourite courses and books to the latest information on anti-aging and longevity to her curated supplement range, infrared light therapy and more. Lisa also shares where her focus is now going and what you can expect moving forward.
Here are some links mentioned in the podcast:
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Harnessing The Nine Hallmarks of Aging by Greg Macpherson
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Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
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Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
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Ep 121: Unity Ultra - Bringing people together in solidarity with victims of the Christchurch Mosque attacks
00:36:39
Tom Hickman is a race director with a big heart and strong social conscience.
Founder of the Bali Hope Ultra who has raised over $250,000 for charity in Bali is now in New Zealand joining forces with Kyron Gosse a runner who did the Bali Hope Ultra but whose Aunty was killed in teh Christchurch Mosque Attacks.
Both men were moved to action, wanting to do something, to make a difference in the face of what was New Zealands' blackest day.
They decided to use running as a way to unite people together, to comemorate the victims and their lives and raise money for the Red Cross.
The Unity Ultra is a 51 mile (one mile for every victim) event from Akaroa to Hagley Park in Christchurch and will take place on the 21st of March.
If you would like to know how you can get involved with this wonderful event either as a runner, a sponsor or fundraiser please visit
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Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
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No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.
The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics
You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
11 Jul 2024
The Truth About Vitamin C, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Methylene Blue And More With Dr Thomas Levy
01:13:06
In this episode the incredible Dr Thomas Levy, Board Certified Cardiologist and Attorney, author of 13 books including:
Curing the Incurable - the Vitamin C story and it's therapeutic effects
The Hidden Epidemic - the story around dental infections, root canals and their affect on cardiovascular disease and breast cancer and beyond.
Death by Calcium - the truth about calcium and why supplementing with calcium is a bad idea.
Rapid Virus Recovery - all about dealing with viruses successfully
Magnesium: Reversing Disease
Dr Thomas has been on this show twice so make sure you also listen in to those episodes
In this episode we dive into Dr Thomas's latest learnings and his top 8 (affordable) supplements and why he thinks most people would benefit from these and how they work in the body.
We dive into his research on Methylene Blue and its ability to help those with mitochondrial dysfunction and energy problems.
We also get into why 100% of root canals are infected and the terrible effect that can have on your risks for developing heart disease and also breast cancer.
We dive again into the benefits and many faceted roles that vitamin C plays in the body as not only a powerful antioxidant but how it has the ability to get everywhere in the body and why that makes it much more powerful than many other antioxidants and we discuss it's roles in everything from cancer to covid to sepsis to cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis.
We also discuss his indepth research into why calcium is so detrimental when it is higher in the body than it should be and why just a small increase of calcium in the soft tissues outside of bone and teeth has such deleterious effects and why magnesium is so beneficial and how it counteracts calciums deleterious effects in the body.
We also look into iron and how it promotes cancer and why it can be elevated in people suffering with viruses and pathogens that are chronic. We also discuss copper toxicity and why so many have too much free copper which can be as toxic as mercury.
Antimony is another topic we get into and why it's so high in the population.
Lastly we dive into osteoporosis why it's actually focal scurvy and a lack of vitamin C.
This episode is a masterclass in health optimisation that you will want to repeat over and over again.
To subscribe to Dr Levy's newsletter and to read his articles, get copies of his books etc go to
Advanced Amateur Radio Operator, 1974—present [WB5CTC]
American College of Physicians (ACP), Member, 1980—2002
Louisiana State Medical Society, 1976-91
American College of Cardiology (ACC), Fellow, 1983—present
American Society of Clinical Hypnosis (ASCH), Member, 1990-2000
El Paso County Medical Society (Colorado), 1991-1995
American Inn of Court, Judge William E. Doyle Inn, Pupil, 1997-8; Associate Barrister, 1999 to present
Colorado Bar Association, 1998-2002
El Paso County Bar Association, 1999
American College of Forensic Examiners (ABFM), Member, 1999
American College of Forensic Examiners (ABFM), Diplomate, 1999
Induction into the Orthomolecular Medicine Hall of Fame, April 2016
PROFESSIONAL POSITIONS AND HOSPITAL AFFILIATIONS:
Supervisor, Major Medical Emergency, Charity Hospital of New Orleans, 1980-83
Assistant Professor of Medicine, Tulane Medical School, 1981-83
Clinical Investigator, DDD Pacemaker, entitled "Clinical Study for Telectronics Model 2251, Dual Chamber Pulse Generator"
Member, Formulary Review—Cardiovascular Section, Charity Hospital of New Orleans, 1981-83
Instructor in Radiology, Tulane Medical School, 1983-4
Clinical Assistant Professor of Medicine, Tulane Medical School, 1983-1986
Staff, Iberia General Hospital, New Iberia, Louisiana, 1984-91
Staff, Memorial Hospital, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1991-present
Staff, Denver General Hospital, Denver, Colorado, 1995-6
Medical Technical Advisor, International Tesla Society, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1994-8
PUBLICATIONS
Graybar, G., Goethe, J., Levy, T., Phillips, J., Youngberg, J., and Smith, D., "Transient Large Upright T-Wave During Multiple Monitored Electroconvulsive Therapy," Anesthesiology, 59(5):467-469 (1983).
Levy, T., Trauma Rounds "Problem: Cardiac Contusion," Annals of Emergency Medicine, July 15, 1983.
Levy, T. and Huggins, H., "Routine Dental Extractions Routinely Produce Cavitations," Journal of Advancement in Medicine, 9(4):235-249 (1996)
Huggins, H. and Levy, T., "Cerebrospinal Fluid Protein Changes in Multiple Sclerosis After Dental Amalgam Removal," Alternative Medicine Review, 3(4):295-300 (1998)
Huggins, H. and Levy, T., Uninformed Consent: The Hidden Dangers in Dental Care, Charlottesville, VA: Hampton Roads Publishing Company, Inc.; 1999
Levy, T., Optimal Nutrition for Optimal Health: The Real Truth About Eating Right for Weight Loss, Detoxification, Low Cholesterol, Better Digestion, and Overall Well-Being, New York, NY: McGraw-Hill (Keats Publishing); 2001
Kulacz, R. and Levy, T., The Roots of Disease: Connecting Dentistry and Medicine, Philadelphia, PA: Xlibris Corporation; 2002
Levy, T., Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2002
Levy, T., Stop America's #1 Killer! Reversible Vitamin Deficiency Found to be Original of ALL Coronary Heart Disease, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2006
Levy, T., GSH: Master Defender Against Disease, Toxins, and Aging, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2008
Levy, T., Living in Your Right Mind, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2010
Levy, T., Rapid Virus Recovery: No need to live in fear!, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2021
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
EP 88: RUN TRAINING COACHING SESSION ON DEVELOPING CADENCE, FORM DRILLS, AND PERIODISED PROGRAMMING
00:29:49
In this episodes Running Hot Coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff discuss the importance of cadence, how you can increase your cadence and why you should care.
What time of your season you should be focusing on your cadence and how hard and fast the 180 steps per min rule is or not.
They discuss form drills and technique and why you should have a off season time during the year when you can focus on these things while doing lower mileage and how the brain works in regards to reprogramming yourself.
They also discuss the long runs in your programmes and why it perhaps isn't as high as you might think it should be. The benefits of back to back training and the importance of the strength and mobility parts of the training pus
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/info
Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Photobiomodulation - What it is and how it helps with Dr Lew Lim
00:54:27
In today’s modern world, we have seen numerous advances and progresses in the medical sciences each day. There is an even high demand for non-invasive procedures to maintain physical and mental health. In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Lew Lim as he talks about photobiomodulation (PBM). He shares his journey in studying and inventing this therapeutic procedure for over 30 years.
According to Dr. Lim, when talking about photobiomodulation, they mean the use of red and near-infrared light. This kind of light is used in low-level laser therapy. He explains how this light is absorbed by the mitochondria in your cells during the procedure. Then, it relieves pain or stimulates and enhances cell function.
Want to know the benefits of photobiomodulation in your body, specifically, your brain? Then, this episode is created for you. You will gain an insight into the biochemical processes behind this procedure. And how it shows promising results in medicine, especially, in treating certain diseases.
Here are three things you’ll learn from this episode:
Discover how Dr. Lew Lim’s journey in studying photobiomodulation and how it can stimulate the brain to promote healing
Learn the important role of the mitochondria in photobiomodulation
Find out more about the benefits of photobiomodulation in our health and well-being
About Dr Lew
Dr Lew Lim, PhD, MD, MBA has been studying photobiomodulation (PBM) and low-level light therapy for over 30 years. In the mid 1990's he invented intranasal photobiomodulation as a non-invasive method of introducing therapeutic photonic energy into the human body. He is the founder of vielight.com which brings intranasal and transcranial devices using photobiomodulation to the consumer.
Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.
To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this podcast go to www.vielight.com
Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.
**If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
28 Oct 2022
The Path to Wellbeing - Be Refreshed, Inspired and Energised with Pele Aumua and Scott Haumaha
01:06:07
In this weeks episode Pele Aumua and Scott Haumaha join me.
Two men with a vision and a passion to improve health and wellbeing in our world.
Their mission is to educate and connect people with holistic wellbeing pathways that support their personal journey to pursue better and in this conversation we talk about not only their deep framework and how they help people achieve wellbeing but also their personal paths that led them to this work.
We discuss the life of the entrepreneur and the importance of striving amongst the chaos to find time and energy to put into yourself what the world and work is taking out.
Key takeaways we think you will enjoy from this interview:
1. Understanding the fundamentals of what a wellbeing framework for you could include, from connection to mindset to functional sides.
2. Thoughts and discussions around taking the leap from your standard 9 to 5pm to living your entrepreneurial dreams and what it takes.
3. Mental Health first aid - how we can care for each other in trying and difficult times and your opportunity to perhaps get trained in this area.
4. Understanding that physical health is not the only pillar of a truly healthy individual, that the mind and spirit also count.
5. The importance of company's and corporation prioritising their employees wellbeing and how this can be implemented and going beyond just ticking boxes.
Pele's Bio
Pele Aumua is a specialist in holistic health and culture building. He applies innovative approaches that challenges deficit thinking and focuses on potential instead. Pele's background in functional strength and conditioning, gym ownership, and lifestyle coaching have culminated his skillset in designing and delivering health initiatives. He excels at empowering communities to become self-sufficient.
Scott's Bio
Scott Haumaha works with people, families and organisations as a financial adviser and Chartered Accountant. Personal finance and financial wellbeing is his specialty. He is passionate about wellbeing and has personally experienced the benefits it has to offer both in his own life and in the lives of others. Wellbeing is an area he continues to study, teach, practice and promote.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
The Benefits of Keto: Debunking Modern Diets with Prof David Harper
01:03:36
For years, there have been long-standing debates on what aspects of our food cause obesity. Most healthcare guidelines advise us to follow a high-carb, low-fat diet. But recent findings of nutrition research reveal that this way of eating is not the most effective method to lose weight, nor does it prevent chronic illnesses. And instead of leading a healthy lifestyle, we are eating ourselves to death.
In this episode, Prof David Harper joins us to share the benefits of keto on our health. He also explains why the high-carb, low-fat diet doesn’t work and how it ironically leads to weight gain and diseases. Finally, he shares tips on what to eat to start a healthy lifestyle and how keto can help us achieve this purpose.
Check out this episode and find out the benefits of keto and which diet could help you lead a healthy lifestyle and help prevent chronic illnesses.
Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up
For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go tohttps://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.
Customised Online Coaching for Runners
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
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Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
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Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
Dr David switched his research focus to the therapeutic benefits of keto for chronic diseases ten years ago.
His recent research collaboration with Dr Jeff Volek looked into the benefits of ketogenic diets for women with metastatic breast cancer.
Like many others, Dr David thought it was healthy to have a high-carb, low-fat diet.
Dr David's book, BioDiet, was made for a layperson to understand the benefits of ketogenic diets
[05:05] Debunking High-Carb, Low-Fat Diet
The high-carb, low-fat diet is an experiment conducted by health bureaucrats on millions of North Americans for years.
Exercise is good for the body, but it’s not the key to losing weight. Instead, people must focus on their diet to shed off some pounds.
Obesity is your body's physiological reaction to excess carbohydrates in your diet. Tune in to know how David came to this realisation through a radio show!
[09:06] Why Ancel Keys Is Wrong
Ancel Keys is an American physiologist who discovered that, supposedly, high saturated fat and cholesterol cause heart diseases.
While his hypothesis seems intuitive, there is no evidence to prove Keys’ statement.
It’s incorrect to consider calories as the primary contributor to weight loss or gain. It’s the food's effect on your metabolism that matters.
The health industry is now revisiting the high-fat, low-carb model due to recent studies revealing sugar and smoking as the primary causes of heart disease and not fat.
[13:56] Obesity in America
The rise of obesity rate in America happened during the 1980s when it released its first dietary guidelines on a high-carb, low-fat diet
The benefits of keto are therapeutic; it’s not a fad.
It’s difficult to gather all relevant data debunking fat as unhealthy; Proving a nutritional intervention prevents disease means controlling the diet of 1000 people for decades.
Studies show that a ketogenic diet is an effective intervention for some chronic illnesses.
[19:12] On Starting a Ketogenic Diet
Always consult with your physician first before trying a ketogenic diet.
Some might experience mild side effects because of their changing metabolism.
There are multiple benefits of keto: weight loss, fair skin complexion, protection from chronic diseases, and more.
[22:29] The Factors of Illness
Chronic diseases and cardiovascular diseases are interrelated.
Another one of the benefits of keto is as a therapeutic intervention for neurological disorders.
Insulin resistance, inflammation, and obesity are the axes of illness. Listen to the whole episode to learn how these three factors result in chronic diseases.
Most doctors treat the symptoms and not the disease. The root of diseases is at the cellular metabolic level.
[27:00] Poor Metabolic Health Amid the Pandemic
Most people who contracted COVID-19 are those with poor metabolic health. If we could solve the public's diet problem, we could reduce the burden on hospitals.
There are no definitive findings that keto can help decrease the risk of contracting COVID-19. However, studies show promising results on how it can boost one's immune system against the virus.
[33:52] The Benefits of Keto
Most postmenopausal women with chronic illnesses found that the benefits of keto include working against brain fog.
Ketone is a cleaner brain fuel and causes less inflammation.
Switching to a keto diet activates the essential proteins for a healthy brain.
[38:18] On Alzheimer’s Disease
Alzheimer’s is a form of type three diabetes or insulin resistance of the brain.
Suzanne de la Monte’s study found that exogenous ketones called MCT oil can improve the cognitive function of people with Alzheimer’s disease.
Ketones improve health and brain function.
[42:16] The Global Burden of Disease
Diet is the primary global burden of disease.
Approximately a sixth of the calories young people take in America is fructose.
To maintain a healthy life, avoid highly processed food and sugar.
[45:08] Why Natural is Not Always Good For You
Not all plants are good for our bodies and minds.
Plants don’t exist for good health. They’re there to do whatever it takes to survive.
The plants we eat today are not the same as our ancestors ate 50 years ago.
[48:56] Getting the Trend Right
Reduce your sugar, high glycemic index carbohydrates, flour, and the like to see great results on your health.
It’s okay to eat some treats, but you have to be conscious about it. There must be a limit set to maintain a healthy lifestyle.
[53:32] Keto Flu
Keto flu involves having cravings for food that you previously consumed.
In the first phase, it's good to take MCT oil to help familiarise your body with the ketones.
It's good to take lots of magnesium and potassium iIf you don't have any kidney problems.
Some might experience side effects when starting the keto diet. These include nausea, changes in stomach acid, brain fog, sleep disturbance, and the like.
Adapting to a keto diet decreases your insulin level that subsequently reduces your body water.
[55:57] Fully Adapting to Keto
The side effects of the keto diet may last for a couple of days. However, you’ll feel a sudden boost of energy once you get over the keto flu.
It’s not advisable to cycle in and out of keto.
The best lifestyle decision you can make every day is on what’s the end of your fork.
7 Powerful Quotes
[10:48] ‘When you consider the calories to be the cause of weight loss or gain, you're going down the wrong road. It's the effect of the foods you eat on your metabolism—in particular, I would argue, on your hormone balance and insulin.’
[23:07] ‘If you're insulin resistant, you become more inflamed and more obese. If you're more obese, you become more insulin resistant. So they make each other worse…eventually, it results in a state of poor metabolic health that will then manifest itself…as one of these chronic diseases.’
[24:05] ‘The thing is you're treating the symptom, not the disease. So the disease is at the cellular metabolic level.’
[27:00] ‘If you look at the people that are having bad COVID outcomes, those are people with poor metabolic health—that is absolutely known. So if we can improve the overall metabolic health of the public, we would reduce the burden on our hospitals again.’
[35:44] 'What happens is you put these stressors on your cells to change its metabolism and that turns the genes on.'
[40:32] 'So we're realising that the ketones don't just provide optimal health. They might actually even improve brain function over and above what you expect.'
[45:52] ‘Plants aren't there for good health. They're there to do whatever it is that makes the plant more successful.’
About Prof David Harper
Prof David Harper is a health educator, researcher, and technology CEO. He finished his Bachelor of Science and Doctorate in Mathematical biofluid dynamics from the University of British Columbia; and completed his post-doctoral fellowship in Comparative Physiology at the University of Cambridge.
He is an Associate Professor of Kinesiology at the University of the Fraser Valley and a visiting scientist at the BC Cancer Research Center, Terry Fox Laboratory.
He is also a member of the scientific advisory board of the Canadian Clinicians for Therapeutic Nutrition and the Institute for Personalised Therapeutic Nutrition.
His current research interest focuses on the therapeutic benefits of ketogenic diets among women with metastatic breast cancer. Due to his passion for studying the impact of diet on our health, he recently launched his book called:BioDiet: The Ketogenic Way to Lose Weight and Improve Health.
You can contact David through his social media channels: LinkedInandTwitter.
Enjoyed This Podcast?
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they will know about the benefits of a ketogenic diet.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me onFacebook,Twitter,InstagramandYouTube.
The Power Of Understanding Your Own DNA with Dr Mansoor Mohammed
01:28:57
Recently Lisa had her own DNA tested doing a comprehensive Genome report and Hormone report - testing offered by The DNA Company (www.thednacompany.com) and in this episode Dr Mansoor explains Lisa's genomic results and the implications for her health.
The depth of the normal report means they only got to touch on a few of the gene results but the full comprehensive genomic report covers areas like:
Cardiovascular health
Mood and behaviour genes
Methylation genes
Metabolism genes
Hormones
The insights garnered from these reports can help you avoid the possible major problems that could be coming your way if you aren't aware of them.
This information is by no means fatalistic or deterministic but rather to empower the individual to be aware of where certain risk factors lie and how you implement the diet, lifestyle and exercises changes required to avoid problems further down the track.
Hormone Report with The DNA Company
If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.
Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.
Functional genomics is the study of how our genome interacts with the world around us. Because it's not just about where you come from. It's about where you can go.
Through a simple sample of your saliva, The Dna company are able to extract the information they need to provide you with a customized health report. To order a report contact support@lisatamati.com to arrange testing today.
We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:
For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.
**If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**
07 Feb 2025
Resilient Hearts: Care, Courage & Science with Lisa Tamati
00:44:19
In this deeply personal episode of "Pushing the Limits," Lisa Tamati shares her journey through the health sector, combining her expertise as a former professional ultra-endurance athlete with her role as a dedicated caregiver. Drawing on years of clinical research and personal experience caring for her mother through a series of health crises over the past decade, facing insurmountable odds over and over again—Lisa offers invaluable insights on brain rehabilitation, cancer therapies and insights, health optimisation and prevention strategies, mental toughness, and the importance of self-care.
Discussion Topics Include:
Personal Journey & Background:
How 25 years as an ultra-endurance athlete molded her resilience and approach to health.
Transitioning from extreme sports to optimising health for herself, her mother, and her clients.
Caring for Her Mother:
Overcoming daunting challenges (aneurysm, stroke, cancer, gut issues, infections, fractures) through relentless research and personalised protocols.
The emotional and physical toll of 24/7 care while running multiple businesses and why keeping her mother at home remains a priority.
Mindset & Mental Toughness:
Strategies for cultivating mental resilience amid overwhelming challenges.
Practical tips for self-care and prioritising tasks to avoid caregiver burnout.
Navigating the Medical System:
The limitations of conventional medicine and the importance of thinking for yourself.
How to build a strong, supportive team around you.
Continuous Learning & Innovation:
The role of ongoing education in applying the latest health research to real-life challenges.
Integrating clinical practice with cutting-edge health optimisation techniques.
Join Lisa for an inspiring and honest conversation that blends personal stories with actionable advice for anyone facing caregiving challenges or seeking to optimise their own health and resilience.
🧬✨ Introducing Aevum Labs: The Future of Longevity Science
Aevum is a cutting-edge biotech company revolutionising the science of ageing by targeting the immune system’s role in longevity. Backed by world-class research, Aevum is dedicated to developing science-driven solutions that support cellular health, resilience, and optimal aging.
🌱 Flagship Product: Re:juvenate Pro
Aevum’s premier supplement, Re:juvenate Pro, is designed to fortify the immune system, promote cellular repair, and support longevity with the most powerful bioactive compounds.
Key Benefits:
Cellular Repair – Supports immune pathways to reduce inflammation and enhance recovery.
Immune Defense – Features lactoferrin, lactoperoxidase, and immunoglobulins to fight off pathogens, viruses, and bacteria.
Gut & Microbiome Health – Strengthens body barriers, improving digestion and overall immunity.
Formulated with cutting-edge longevity research and manufactured to the highest standards, Re:juvenate Pro is the ultimate daily defense against ageing.
🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
📌 Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
🔬 Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.
🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
EP:90 FROM UNHEALTHY, UNFIT SMOKER TO ULTRA MARATHON CONQUEROR -TANIA CAHILL'S STORY
00:45:55
This is the tale of a 49 year old Australian woman who in the space of few short years went from being a totally unfit, overweight smoker who didn't really even think about running or fitness to having a life defining moment at a doctors one day and changing her life. Losing a huge amount of weight, stopping smoking, starting walking and then running and then running further then running some more.
This is a story of an endurance adventure that ultimately challenged Tania both physically and mentally. Along with Robert, her partner who supported her as her one and only crew, she embarked on the mammoth task of running the 440km Hume and Hovell Track.
Beginning at Cooma Cottage in Yass, the track follows the trails discovered by explorers Hamilton Hume and William Hovell in the south east of NSW, Australia. It traverses both rugged and beautiful countryside while following a mix of public roads, fire trails, purpose built single track and over 100 footbridges and finishes at the Hovell Tree at Albury.
The track is without a doubt one of New South Wales’ best kept secrets. After 18 months of planning, Tania realised her dream of completing the track when she finished the entire journey at the Hovell Tree in Albury at around 8:30pm on October 2.
But this journey wasn't just a physical one but a journey to health and strength, to confidence and resilience and to much soul searching in the aftermath.
Be inspired and encouraged from this everyday hero story.
We would like to thank our sponsors
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/info
Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Curing Aging - The Science Of Telomeres With Dr Bill Andrews
01:27:59
In this weeks episode we catch up with Dr Bill Andrews who happens not only to be a top age level ultra marathon athlete who has competed in literally hundreds of ultramarathons in his life time including some of the absolute toughest like the Badwater Ultramarathon and La Ultra - The High, two that I know well, but he is also a world leading longevity scientist who focuses his research mostly on telomeres and extending life span and health span.
Telomeres are found at the tips of our chromosomes and have been shown, in thousands of scientific peer-reviewed studies, to be the clock of aging in humans. When telomeres get shorter, we get older, and our health declines.
Dr Bill says that while telomeres may not be the single cure for ageing, we can't cure ageing without fixing the telomere shortening problem.
Telomere attrition (shortening) is one of the known hallmarks of aging and Dr Bill shares in this insightful interview how we can:
slow or even reverse ageing through the lengthening of our telomeres:
how he discovered the worlds most powerful telomerase inducing substances.
what we can expect in the near future and how we can harness this knowledge today
what we can do from a lifestyle perspective to slow the shortening of our telomeres
why lengthening telomere protects you from cancer rather than causing cancer as has been rumored in the past.
what the longevity and anti-aging field doing today and how he believes that the many breakthroughs are already here or coming very soon.
he elaborates on his life long mission to cure ageing and what he does personally to at age 72 to prevent the normal declines (hint - he still running 100 milers and going for an age group record in the next year or two.
If you want to delay disease, decline and decrepitude then this is the podcast for you!
As a scientist, athlete, and executive, Bill continually pushes the envelope and challenges convention. He has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and numerous documentaries on the topic of life extension including, most recently, the movie The Immortalists in which he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey. See www.theimmortalists.com/watch. Bill is known for being a scientist first, focusing on scientific research, allowing others, instead, to market the products that his company discovers.
Bill has been a medical researcher in biotech since 1981, focusing on cancer, heart disease, and inflammation research, while at Geron Corporation, Bill led the research to discover both the RNA and protein components of the human enzyme called telomerase. This enzyme is responsible for preventing telomeres from shortening in human reproductive cells, and this is why our children are born younger than we are even though they come from our old cells. Inducing this enzyme to lengthen telomeres in all our cells, not just our reproductive cells, to reverse aging and declining health due to aging, is the principal goal of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings.
You can see what Dr. Bill is up to at www.sierrasci.com
Dr. Bill is the author of "Curing Aging" and "Telomere Lengthening"
BIO
Dr. Bill Andrews is the Founder and CEO of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings, a companies are focused on finding ways to extend human lifespan and health span through telomere maintenance. Telomeres are found at the tips of our chromosomes and have been shown, in thousands of scientific peer-reviewed studies, to be the clock of aging in humans. When telomeres get shorter, we get older, and our health declines.
As a scientist, athlete, and executive, Bill continually pushes the envelope and challenges convention. He has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and numerous documentaries on the topic of life extension including, most recently, the movie The Immortalists in which he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey. See www.theimmortalists.com/watch. Bill is known for being a scientist first, focusing on scientific research, allowing others, instead, to market the products that his company discovers.
Bill has been a medical researcher in biotech since 1981, focusing on cancer, heart disease, and inflammation research, though his passion has always been aging. In the early-to-mid 1990s, while at Geron Corporation, Bill led the research to discover both the RNA and protein components of the human enzyme called telomerase. This enzyme is responsible for preventing telomeres from shortening in human reproductive cells, and this is why our children are born younger than we are even though they come from our old cells. Inducing this enzyme to lengthen telomeres in all our cells, not just our reproductive cells, to reverse aging and declining health due to aging, is the principal goal of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings.
website: https://sierrasci.com/ The Immortalists Movie: https://theimmortalists.com/watch/ Best Choice Medicine petition, that you can sign today: https://www.bestchoicemedicine.com/
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Overcoming Obstacles and Building Businesses with Daryl Urbanski
01:06:14
Starting a business can be incredibly tricky. Statistics say about 80% or more of enterprises end up failing. If you’re a business owner or a founder, you know how there are so many factors to consider. Overcoming obstacles every step of the way is far from an easy feat. Moreover, starting a business requires a ton of research, but research alone won't guarantee success.
So what's the secret?
In this episode, Daryl Urbanski joins us to share the secret to building businesses and scaling them. You’ll learn about how his background taught him to be one of the leading business experts of this generation. He also discusses how to overcome obstacles and take your business to the next level.
If you want to learn how to be a successful entrepreneur, tune in to this episode!
If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Daryl was orphaned as a kid, and his stepdad was an entrepreneur.
His father showed Daryl that an entrepreneur was someone who is of service and respected by their community.
He wanted to be like that too, so he shovelled driveways and did a newspaper route for money at a young age.
Since Daryl was an orphan, he felt the need to be self-sufficient and self-directed.
At 17, he joined a company that was one of the early pioneers of early marketing, got interested in growing businesses, and the rest is history.
[10:45] Katimavik
Daryl was part ofKatimavik,a Canadian social program in which ten children aged 17-21 live, travel and work across Canada.
Katimavikwas a turning point in Daryl's life.
Daryl initially lived in a dangerous city.Katimavikwas his way out.
It was a source of many experiences for Daryl.
[21:52] Youth Development
In raising his daughter, Daryl has a thing called neglect under supervision, where he tries to carefully neglect her in some ways to let her develop, grow and overcome obstacles.
He won’t stop her from falling, but he’ll try his best to catch her.
Growing up in a city is more about surviving in social dynamics than the social and environmental dynamics you find when you grow up on a farm.
Children would benefit from more physical activity in their lives. They'd develop differently, and would not feel the need to lash out violently.
Children need a better sense of responsibility and consequences — power and skill are earned.
[27:17] Lessons from Martial Arts
Martial arts teaches progression: your skills will develop over time, through with observation and training.
You learn about people and how your emotions impact decision-making. Martial arts isn’t just about training but also about recovery and rest.
The best way to get out of a bad situation is to prevent it from happening.
When he first learned martial arts, he thought it was about doing things to people. In reality, it’s about self-control and boundaries.
Martial arts also taught Daryl about overcoming obstacles and testing himself.
[39:04] The Secret to Building Businesses
There are many great places to start, and one of the hardest ones is getting something new going.
Always start with a market. Find a problem you’re willing to solve for people.
The purpose of a business is to locate a prospect and turn that into a customer who returns.
Figure out what problem you want to solve, then design it and do it in a scalable way.
The critical success factors for businesses are self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing, strategy, market intelligence, money management, business operating systems, business intelligence and government and economic factors.
[46:05] The Next Level
Ask yourself where the customers are and where they want to go. Can you take them there?
Fix what makes your customers unhappy, find out how to get busy and aim for consistency.
What helps your team grow is documentation and training. Create systems. How do you communicate your vision and keep the team productive?
[50:23] Getting Out of the Startup Gate
The hardest part is dealing with the imposter syndrome and self-doubt.
It’s all about managing stress and avoiding burnout.
Many people sacrifice their health to make money but end up spending all their money trying to get their health back.
It is better to collect money first and then develop a product.
[56:39] Daryl’s Current Core Focus
Now, Daryl is focused on group coaching.
For people who want more dedicated attention, he has a virtual VP of Marketing service.
He also has a pay for performance model, where people only have to pay if they make a profit.
[1:00:05] On Keywords and Google Trends
Keywords can tell you how many people are thinking about this particular thing.
Keywords are a powerful tool from a market intelligence standpoint.
From keywords, you learn what people are looking for, where they are and more.
Make your marketing about your customer.
[1:04:03] What You Need to Be an Entrepreneur
Be transparent.
People need to trust you for them to give you their money.
You’re going to need all eight success factors, but most importantly, answer the question: ‘What problem are you solving’?
7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode
‘Life is full of challenges and hurdles, and through overcoming those we develop our character’.
‘Pain often…makes you stronger and makes you more able to withstand—that’s what exercise is all about. You hurt yourself, you get stronger’.
‘It’s not just training, but it’s also how to recover and rest…Silence is part of music just as much as music is’.
‘Prevention is so much better than cure…the best solution is, don't let them do it to you in the first place. Know it, recognise the signs and protect yourself before it happens’.
‘It’s not even about being the best, the smartest, the brightest. It’s about making the least mistakes’.
‘You don’t know what you’re capable of until you do it’.
‘Evolution is about growth and challenge and overcoming obstacles’.
About Daryl
Daryl Urbanski, Founder, President of BestBusinessCoach.ca & Host of The Best Business Podcast is best known for his ability to create seven-figure, automated income streams from scratch. First as Senior Marketing Director for Praxis LLC, now Neurogym, he generated over USD 1.6 Million in under 6 months with a single marketing strategy. This became almost USD 7.5 Million in just under 3 years.
After repeating this success with multiple clients, he set on a mission to help create 200 NEW multi-millionaire business owners. How? They’ll do better when they know better.
Daryl has quickly climbed the entrepreneurial ladder, gaining respect from thousands of business owners worldwide. From author to speaker, marketer to coach, Daryl's multifaceted business approach sets him apart as one of the leading business experts of his generation.
Enjoy the Podcast?
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they overcome the obstacles in their lives or start their own successful businesses.
Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:You're listening to Pushing The Limits with your host, Lisa Tamati. Thank you once again for joining me. Today I have another exciting podcast with a man named Daryl Urbanski. Now, Daryl is a very well known business coach. So today, quite something different for you. This is all about what it takes to be an entrepreneur. Daryl is also a martial artist. So, he uses a lot of analogies from his sporting as we do in this podcast, from a sporting life and how that helps him in his career and also helping others build businesses. Now, he's helped over 1,000 businesses in his career in 50 different industries, and this guy knows how to grow and scale and overcome problems. So, he's a real expert in this area, and I really enjoyed our conversation.
Before we head over to Daryl in Vietnam, just wanted to remind you, if you're into finding out all about your genes, and what they have to say about you and how you can influence your genes to live your optimal lifestyle and be your best self, then make sure you check out what we do in our Epigenetics Program. So, this is all about understanding your genes and how they are expressing at the moment how the environment is influencing them, and then optimising everything, from your food to your exercise right through to your mindset, your social, your career, all aspects of life are covered in this really revolutionary programme.
Now, this programme is not something that we've put together; this has been put together by literally hundreds of scientists from 15 different science disciplines, all working together for over 20 years to bring this really next level cutting edge information about your genes and how you can find out how to optimise them. No longer do you need trial and error; you can work out what the best diet is, when the best time to eat is, exactly the right foods to eat right down to the level of, 'eat bok choy, don't eat spinach', that type of thing. And as—but it's so much more than just a food and exercise. It also looks at your health and anything that may be troubling you and future and how to deal with it. So, it's a really comprehensive programme, and I'd love you to check it out. You can visit us at lisatamati.com, hit the Work with Us button and you'll see our Epigenetics Program.
We've also got our online run coaching as normal, customised, personalised, run training system, where we make a plan specific to you and to your needs and your goals. And you get a session with me—a one on one session with me and a full video analysis of your running so that we can help you improve your style, your form, your efficiency, plus a full-on plan that includes all your strength training, your mobility workouts, and great community, of course. So make sure you check that out atrunninghotcoaching.com.
And the last thing before we go over to the show, I have just started a new venture with Dr Elena Seranova, who is a molecular biologist from the UK, originally from Russia, and she is a expert in autophagy in stem cells, and she has made a supplement called NMN. Now, you may have heard of this nicotinamide mononucleotide. It's a big fancy word, I know. But you will be hearing more about this. It's been on the Joe Rogan show; it's been on Dr Rhonda Patrick show, some big names now talking all about this amazing longevity compound, anti-aging compound. Now, this is based on the work of Dr David Sinclair, who wrote the book,Lifespan: Why We Age and or How We Age and Why We Don't Need To. He is a Harvard Medical School researcher who has been studying longevity and anti-aging and is at the really the world's forefront of all the technologies to do with turning the clock back and who doesn't want to do that?
So I've teamed up with Dr Elena to import nicotinamide mononucleotide, our supplement from NMN bio into New Zealand and Australia. So if you are keen to get your hands on some because this was not available prior in New Zealand, I wanted a reputable company, a place that I could really know that the supplements that I'm getting is quality, that it's been lab-tested, that it was a scientist behind it, a lab behind it, and this is a real deal.
Now, I've been on this now for four months and so as my mom and my husband, and I've noticed massive changes in my life. Certainly, weight loss has been one of those things, that stubborn last couple of kilos that I've been fighting have gone without any muscle loss which has been really very interesting. It improves also cardiovascular health, your memory cognition, the speed of your thinking; all the things that start to decline as you age. And the reason this is happening is because we have declining levels of NAD, another big word, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And this NMN is a precursor for NAD.
So, lots of big words, lots of science. f you want to find more about that, you can head over to lisatamati.com, under the Shop button, you will find out all about our anti-aging supplement NMN, and we're about to launch a new website which will benmnbio.nz, but that's not quite up there yet, but it probably is by the time this podcast comes out. So, check that one out to nmnbio.nz, bio, just B-I-O. If you want to stop—well, not completely stop aging, but if you want to slow the clock down and get the best information that's out there then make sure you read Dr David Sinclair's book,Lifespanit's an absolute game-changer. You'll be absolutely amazed at some of the stuff that's happening and what they consider my mononucleotide can already do. So check that out. Okay, without further ado over to the show with Daryl Urbanski.
Lisa Tamati:Well, hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. Today I have the lovely Daryl Urbanski with me who is sitting in Danang in Vietnam. And Daryl, this is gonna be a little bit of a different episode because usually I've got some health science-y thing or some are elite athlete doing—well, not to say that Daryl was not an elite athlete because he is into martial arts. But Daryl’s specialty and what he's come to share with you guys today is, he is a business expert and a marketing expert, and also a mindset expert, I would like to say. So Daryl, welcome to the show. Fantastic to have you.
Daryl Urbanski:Yes, it's an honour and pleasure to be here. We've had some good conversations, like minds, two birds of a feather. Just an honour and a pleasure to be here.
Lisa:Yes. Thank you so much, Daryl, for coming on today. So, Daryl and I cross pass by his lovely lady who organises half my life as far as the business side of things goes. So it's been a fantastic liaison. And—but Daryl was actually here on his own accord. And he's—so Daryl, I want you to give us a bit of a brief background, where have you come from, how did you end up in Vietnam? And what do you do for a living?
Daryl:Right, so I'm Canadian. So I'm from Canada, travelled all over the world, and I don't know if it's too short. So that's where I come from, I ended up in Vietnam. That's a long story. So I guess I'm Canadian. I'm in Vietnam. I help businesses or websites get customers and keep them to make more money. And that's really kind of it in a nutshell. It's been a long journey.
When I was a kid I was an orphan and my adopted family, actually my step adopted dad's the one that really raised me and his brother, my uncle. We would visit him every time we went to Toronto, and he was a bit of an entrepreneur. He also did some property management in that and every time we went to visit I almost felt like he was kind of like the Godfather. What I meant was people were always coming by with like, a gift basket or to thank him for something. So the impression that was put in my mind was like to be an entrepreneur is to be of service to the community, and to get people's respect and adoration for the good that you're bringing. And that was really like—I know, there's all sorts of different like your salesmen, and everyone's got different images. But that was when I was a young kid, I was like, ‘Wow, I want to be valued by my community, too’. So that really laid an impression on me at a young age.
Again, I didn't have the lemonade stand, I didn't mow lawn, but I did shovel driveways. We have so much snow in Canada in the wintertime. We would shovel driveways for money. I did have a newspaper route. And just at a young age, I just kind of felt, maybe because I was an orphan, but I felt the need to be self-sufficient and self-directed. Yes...
Lisa:How to be your own ship, really.
Daryl:Yes, sort of. Yes, I just—I also had issues like I did air cadets when I was a kid. There's some other kids, they were using their authority outside of cadets to try to, like, lord over people and stuff. And right away, I kind of learned at a young age, you kind of have to be careful—you can manage up, let's just put it that way. It's not just managing down, but you can manage up, and you can choose who's above you too, it's a two-way street. So I really laid an impression on the young age. And then when I was 17, I added a co-op in university with the company called marketme.ca and they were just one of the early pioneers of online marketing. Got me into the whole business growth avenue and that...
Lisa:The rest is history.Yes, now that's fabulous. So you from like, in my young years, like I was an entrepreneur from the get-go. I never fit in in anybody's corporate square box. Tried—I tried, I failed. Did you have that feeling like you were just outside of like, you just wanted to be in charge? Because you've been in business, basically, since you were 17 years old. And you've learned a heck of a lot on this massive business journey that you've been on. And you've helped—I know that you've helped over 1,000 businesses in 50 plus industries. And you've really grown into this role of helping businesses scale up and grow and develop your own systems around this.
But did you have an idea when you were that 17-year old that this was where you were going, and this is the direction? Or has it sort of meandered throughout time?
Daryl:No, I was—because I think I had a lot of, they say, like everything, I'm not maybe everything that I am and not knowing my biological roots, and that as a kid left me really to kind of be given the path of self-discovery, you could say from a young age. A lot of confusion, maybe anger in my younger years as well. But what really made the difference, at least in the earliest days, was that when I was 17, I ended up at Canadian government programme called Katimavik, which means ‘meeting places’. Inuit, which a lot of people call them Eskimos. But now we say the people of the North, the natives of the North they’re Inuit, which means snow people. Eskimo means meat-eater or flesh-eater. So they don't like being called Eskimos, you call them Inuit, but Katimavik is an Inuit word, and it means ‘meeting place’. And it's a government programme that's been on and off over the last 40-50 years in Canada.
And really what the—when I did it with the terms of the programme where it's a social programme sponsored by the government, 17 to 21-year-old youth, and then what they do is they put a group of 10 kids together, and the group of 10 kids is supposed to represent Canada. So, what that means is that they grab some from the east coast, the west coast from up north they try to make it, so it's representative. Like we had half guys have girls. French, we have three French speakers, right? Then the English speakers. We had an Inuit guy Kenny, who when he came, he actually didn't even speak English. We always knew when the phone was for Kenny because we didn't—it all be like, '[mumbles] Kenny this is for you, I don't know what's happening, either it's a bad connection, or this is someone who talks in their language'.
And that programme, what we did—when I did it was we spent three months in British Columbia, three months in Alberta, and three months in Quebec and in every province, there was a house. In that house, there is a project manager, project leader...
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:...basically he was someone that would go to the house, and they were there, the whole duration of the programme. And this isn't a pitch for the programme, but I feel like it was—my life was really before and after.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:Becauselife skills I got from this...
Lisa:That's cool.
Daryl:...so every place would have a project leader, and they would organise full-time work for all ten kids. And you were like a volunteer full-time worker, and in exchange, the government and I think this businesses may be paid a reduced hourly wage, I don't really know the details of it. But you worked for free, and in exchange, the government paid your grocery bills, they paid your rent and your travel expenses, and you got 20 bucks a week for like toothpaste and whatever else you wanted. And that was—it was a fantastic programme. I learned so much when I was in Alberta and British Columbia. I worked at a native band office, which is in Canada, we have a lot of native land, and that's land, like, we were the original immigrants. We took over the landmass, and then we gave the natives, ‘This is your land’, and so it's like a country within a country, and a band office is like their government office.
Lisa:Right.
Daryl:So, I actually worked at an Indian band office, Similkameen Valley band office and Iwe helped build sweat lodges. We did all sorts of stuff. I work there newsletter, helped communicate with the community. In Alberta, I was a seventh-grade teacher's assistant at a middle school, and a social worker assistant and I worked with a librarian as well. And then in Quebec, I was actually a mayor's assistant for three small town, 150 people. But you had a full-time job in each place, and then after work when you came home, the 10 of you were basically instantly signed up for any community events that were going on.
I remember in the small town of Karamea we built something like 20 out of the 25 of their Christmas floats for their Christmas parade. We did soup kitchens, music festivals, like, you name it, and there's just like, instantly—if there was something out of the community like the project leader would know about it and just drag us, and we just show up be like, 'Hey', and it was like ten pairs of hands. Like just we were coming just to make things happen.
So every three months, you had a full-time job, evenings and weekends, except for Sunday. You basically anything in the community, you were instantly signed up as a volunteer, and every two and for two weeks, every three month period, you would build it, you would stay with a local family for two weeks to like, see how they live. And that was really insightful because I didn't know any other family or how the family operated. But then I got to see inside the workings, like,
I remember this one family, I stayed with the three, the parents, the father was in finance, and he was always, like, his suit and his hair's so proper. He was very strict and very like this. And his kids on the other side, they had like mohawks, spike collars and black nails and eyes. And it was so funny because I felt like it was a yin yang. I felt like the kids were the exact opposite in the extreme of the parents, and just watching the dynamics of people. And also every week, a boy and a girl would stay home from their full-time jobs, and they would be the mum and dad in the house because we had a budget like for groceries and they would have to cook and clean. So that nine months experience when I was 17, I came out of that with more life experience than a lot of people and…
Lisa:What an incredible programme and how lucky...
Daryl:Yes.
Lisa:...for you, like, because so many kids go off the rails, as they say at that point yet, and they get lost and to have the sort of a structure of development and experience must have been a real game-changer for you.
Daryl:Yeah, I mean, we moved around a bit when I was a kid, but we ended up settling in a city called Kingston, Ontario, which also happened to be the penitentiary capital of Canada. And so it was a unique community because you've got Queen's University, which is one of the top three universities of Canada. You've got the second-largest military base. It's almost one of the largest government employment cities. So you've got these high-income earners in the public sector, and then you've also got this great university. Some of the largest businesses out of Canada, actually, even in Kingston, like we've got one of the largest real estate investment trusts. There's a company that makes the shafts for all the pro golf clubs outside of Kingston. It's kind of weird, you got these unique massive spikes of success. But then because of the penitentiaries, a lot of families move to Kingston to be closer to the family. So then you have these areas where there's like when you get out of jail, you just settle in the town that you're in, and so it's weird, and I actually didn't think I was gonna see my 21st birthday.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:I was in high school, and I didn't—I had a friend that was found in a lake rolled in a carpet...
Lisa:Oh, gosh.
Daryl:...and things like that. And I didn't think I was really gonna make it.
Lisa:So, really dangerous areas to be growing up as a youth.
Daryl:But then, I always say when you live in a city, you don't live in that city, you live in your bubble in that city. So my bubble was mixed. It was a mixed bag. I was in the middle—I grew up in a nice suburb, but through school and all that, I got involved with lots of different things. But in this group one day, they spoke at my high school, and they're talking about, 'Yo, we're getting to travel Canada for free'. Like, I was like, 'Hey, that sounds great. I need to get out of here. I don't see a future. I don't see a future', and I signed up and that was what I did. And then after that because of being involved and so I almost got kicked out.
Now, after the first two months, I was on my last warning, you get three warnings, and you get sent home. And every time you make them, you have to write a commitment to improve. And I was like, I just thought I think that project leader didn't like me, but I was like, on it by a hair. And it was so funny because I remember when I made the first three months, we moved to the second location, I was like, 'Wow even if I get kicked out now. Now I've learned everything that I could learn from this programme'. Three months, Alberta and I met all sorts of new people and new experiences. And I was like, 'Wow, I made it to six months. Now that I'm going to Quebec, now I've learned everything, I mean, so good'. And then the next three months, and then I finished it like, 'Wow, I made it to the end. Now I've learned...
Lisa:You're an expert.
Daryl:...programme, right. But now here it is years and years later, and I met because they were like family, the other ten kids, right? And I still catch up with them every now and then, like I learned through, 'Why? You got a kid? You got three kids'?
Lisa:In other words, we all say we're no’s all the time. And then we're actually just at the beginning of our next journey. And it's all stepping stones to the next part of learning and stuff. But what a fantastic I wish we had a programme like that here because I mean, it must cost a lot to run and be really difficult to organise. But man, they could change lives, say for kids who are just lost and don't quite know what's the next step and how many of them are be.
Daryl:It's a fantastic programme. It's actually I don't think it's running in Canada anymore. Again, because of the cost that it gets government funding, it gets taken away. The Trudeau lineage is the one that started—they tend to be behind it. There was a big scandal in Canada 'we something charity' and it sounds like that they were going to give a billion dollars in one organisation that does something like that. But of course, it got into, like, where's money going and people arguing and is that a good use and I think nothing happened at it. But it's a shame because...
Lisa:It changes your life.
Daryl:Well, I think right now there's a ton of people, especially the younger kids who need a sense of responsibility. I think in some ways, I don't want to go on a big rant. But I think life is full of challenges and hurdles. And it's like, through overcoming those we develop our character. And some people, they just have such a cushy like...
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:.Things have become so politically correct. We've softened all the hard edges. I remember seeing in Toronto, they replaced a bunch of the kids playgrounds, because kids were falling and getting hurt.
Lisa:Yes, yes.
Daryl:Like, yes, but that's, like, you climb a tree, you fall, like, you don't...
Lisa:There's no consequence to anything anymore. And there's no, like, yes.
Daryl:It's like participation awards versus achievement awards. Like, we really, in some ways, become a society of participation awards versus achievement awards. And that's...
Lisa:I totally get it. I totally agree. Because I mean, I'm showing my age, but I grew up in the early 70s and stuff, and it was a rough ride. I'm lucky to be alive.
Daryl:Not everyone. Not everyone made it in adulthood. Yes.
Lisa:And, but you know what, I wouldn't change that for the world because I don't want to be wrapped up in cotton wool and bounce around like a bunch of marshmallows for the want of a better expression. I want to be able to climb trees and cycle. I had to laugh yesterday. We live in a little village that, sort of, no police around here. And you've got all sorts in, and it's a lovely village, it's a sort of a beachy resort-y place. But you get the kids, they got no helmets on, and the other ones are on scooters, and there's three of them hanging off it and other people with their youths, and the kids are on the back, which is all illegal, right?
Daryl:Right.
Lisa:And I'm not saying it is good, but I do have to smile because it reminds me of my childhood because that's where...
Daryl:A little bit recklessness, a little bit of foolishness. We don't want it, but the world has real limits.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:And especially as a parent, like I have a daughter now and it's like, I call it careful neglect. I try to carefully neglect her in some ways to force her to develop and grow.
Lisa:Beautiful.
Daryl:It's like neglect under supervision, that's probably the best way to do it. Because if I always do it for her, and then I'm not there like they say kids who grew up with a single parent tend to be more independent than kids that have two parents, although kids with two parents tend to do better overall. I want a blend of that. The kids with single parents, they are more independent because that's expected of them. There's not all—you can't...
Lisa:backup.
Daryl:It's not all the swaddling.
Lisa:Yes, no, I totally agree. And like, not even just for kids, but like dealing with my mum with her disability, I had to—and people would criticise me heavily, but I used—I make her do the hard stuff. Like, if she's struggling to get out of a chair at night and she's tired I don't get up to help her and not because I'm an asshole but because I need her to learn which muscle it is to push and people would, like when we're out in public that'd be standing there watching me watch her struggling and I'd get abuse sometimes. Like, ‘why aren't you helping’?
Daryl:Yes, yes.
Lisa:That's all I'm doing. I have to do it all the time with her because I'm teaching her new difficult tasks all the time. I'm having to put her through some painful regimes and training. And because I've been an athlete all my life, I understand that pain often, when in training, in difficult training sessions and stuff make you stronger, and make you more able to withstand. I mean, that's what exercise is all about: you hurt yourself, you get stronger, you hurt yourself, you get stronger. And with mum's training, it's very often like that. So okay, she's not a kid, but it's the same principle. I have to let her go.
Or winching out when she got her driver's license, and I would let her drive my car and go around town. I mean, I'm still panicking half the time, a nice—and for the start, I would shadow her, like from behind. She didn't know that I was following her way right through the town where she went so that she had that backup. But she didn't know she had that backup.
Daryl:As I actually had been saying that to Kathy, but my daughter, I'm like, I won't stop her from falling, but I'll do my best to always catch her.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:I'm not gonna try to stop because sometimes you're like, 'Your daughter and you try to pad the room'. And I'm like, 'I gave her a pair of scissors'. This is when she was really young, gave her scissors, 'Don't, she'll cut herself', and I'm like, 'Yes, and it'll be a valuable lesson'. 'You're right'. And I'm right here, and it'll be a vet ship. She'll learn a valuable lesson; I don't know if she doesn't, I feel like that's partially where we have things like all these school shootings and that. These kids aren't growing up on farms. They've never been kicked by a horse or a goat, or they've never hit themselves in the foot with an axe. So they playing these video games of extreme violence and sexual violence in the movies and they feel these emotions, like really common as a teenager. They have access to such powerful tools.
I'm Canadian, but in the States, they sell guns at Walmart and so you've got a kid that's angry, he's got no real sense of the reality of the world around him in terms of like, what happens if you fall out of a tree and break your ankle, that's so distant because they grew up in a city and it's just, it's more just surviving and social dynamics versus a social and environmental dynamic.
Lisa:I totally agree.
Daryl:And I go to school, and they lash out with guns, I really feel that if those kids grew up with more hard labour in their lives, more physical—even if they just had more physical training conditioning. You play hockey, you get hit too hard, like something like that, it would have less school shootings because they still feel the same emotions, but one, they'd have different outlets, and they would also kind of respect it better. It's like my jujitsu. You mentioned I do jujitsu.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:I feel like it's very—when you guys are new, you get a lot of these strong guys, and they try to tough on everybody. And they just, it's useless. And they get beaten up by the more skilled ones. So then when they develop skill, they're kind of like a 'Hey, like, I know what it's like to be the one getting beaten up'.
Lisa:Yes. Which is the correct method.
Daryl:Like, the power, the skill is earned. So, you treat it with better respect.
Lisa:Humility is always a good thing. And I think learning.. I've taken up skimboarding with you, and I don't bounce very well at 52. But it's really important that I do something that I'm really useless at.and I'm having to learn a new skill. And I sometimes ski myself because if I don't get the stage, that's when you start losing those skills. And I don't want to lose any of my abilities, and I've still got good reactions and stuff like that, so I want to keep them. So I constantly want to push myself outside that boundary.
So let's dive in a little bit to your martial arts, and then we'll get onto your business side of things because what you've done the years is just incredible. What sort of lessons have you learned—I mean, that was one—but what sort of lessons have you learned from doing Jiu Jitsu in the discipline that's required for this very tough sport?
Daryl:Yes, that's great. So yes, I did jujitsu for about six, seven, maybe eight years. I haven't trained, probably in a couple years now. I've been doing more kind of CrossFit and my own physical training, but I think the lessons are through any—you learn about progression over time. You learn things like the fundamentals are fundamental. You kind of learn the basics, but then you get bored with those, and you want to learn the fancy, advanced stuff, but then it's hard to apply it and get it to work. And then through just time and observation and training with the greatest you understand it really is about the fundamentals. Virtue is doing the common uncommonly well.
The fundamentals that we learned are the stuff that's actually working against the highest level black belts. The basics that you learn, you see that happen at the highest level World Championships in the biggest competitions, and the really great to the ones that can do the basics and just walk through everyone with them. Like, 'How are they able to do that so well'? Everybody knows what's happening. Everyone knows what to expect, but they can't stop it from happening anyhow.
Another lesson was it's a game of inches in the beginning because jujitsu is kind of like a submission wrestling, submission grappling.It's not so much punch and kick.It's more about pull, roll, and just and using things like gravity. So there's things about drilling how practise makes perfect. You learned the rule, like 10,000 hours that it's if I've been training for 200 hours, and you've been training 10 hours, generally speaking, I have a major advantage. If I've been training 2000 hours, you've been training 100 hours, typically speaking, I'm gonna just mop the floor with you because I've—there's nuance detail and you can almost endlessly drill into the fundamentals.
And then there's just the progress. You've talked about learning new skills. Last year, I learned how to handstand walk. I can now handstand walk about 20 feet, I'm gonna be 38 in a couple of months.
Lisa:Wow, I can't do that.
Daryl:Yes.
Lisa:I'm jealous.
Daryl:It’s specifically for the skill development, for the neurological developments, to like to balance in a totally different way and physical development. So I mean, you just see you learn about people, you learn about how your emotions impact your decision making in certain respects. You learn about how it's not just training, but it's also how to recover and rest. And we talked about this I think before I interviewed you for my podcast, like, silence is part of music just as much as music is, the difference is it's intentional.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:Silences, intention. So it's about doing things with intent. Taking a concept like I want to learn and get good at this and breaking into pieces. And I was talking about this to my friend yesterday. Actually, I forget how it came up. But he's talking about something, and work, and the situation, and how to avoid, and I remember I was training and I was fortunate to do some training with Rickson Gracie in my early parts of my training career, legendary fighter guy.
And I remember I kept getting caught in these triangle chokes. Triangle choke is a type of choke. And I kept getting caught in these triangle chokes. I remember asking, like, 'How do I get out of it'? He says, 'Well, don't let them put you into it'. I'm like, 'Yes, I know. But I already got into it. Now what do I do'? he's like, 'Don't let them put you into it'. And I just wanted—I wanted the cure, and I was like, 'Yes, but I want it' and there are, there's some things you can do. But the real answer is...
Lisa:Prevention
Daryl:...prevention is so much better than cure. Like, well it's good...
Lisa:Great principle.
Daryl:You're in it, like, you gotta panic, you got two or three options, you got to panic, you're gonna spend a lot of energy, you're gonna flail and struggle, it's gonna be close. We can talk about how to do it. But really, the best solution is, don't let them do it to you in the first place. Note and recognise the signs and protect yourself before it happens.
Lisa:That is a great law for the whole of the health paradigm that I live under.
Daryl:Yes. How do I deal with heart problems?
Lisa:Prevention, prevention.
Daryl:Prevention. Yes, exactly. And you know proactivity.
Lisa:Yes, occasionally,you will still get caught out and you will still and then you want to know those tricks. But in the first line, let's learn prevention and then we'll look at how do we get out of this mess?
Daryl:And another really—which kind of ties in and then we can if you want to move on, move on. But this one, I think is also really, really, really important. When I first learned martial arts, I always thought it was about doing things to other people, I'm going to do this too, or I'm going to use your leverage against you. I'm gonna do this to the world. What I've really realised is two things. One, it's not even necessarily about doing things. It's about two things it's about not doing things externally, it's about self-control. It's about boundaries.
So we just talked about 'Don't let him put you into it'. That means that I have to have boundaries around things. Will I let him grab me here? Well I’ll not allow that. Well, I let him grab me there. And I'll be like, 'Okay, whatever. And I'm going to try to do some'. So again, when people start and forgive me, I don't want to go on a huge long rant on this. But when you start, I'm going to do this to you, going to do that to you and I'm trying to do this...
Lisa:You got to be kidding.
Daryl:...and so I don't even care what you're doing to me. When you get—later, it's like what do I accept? What are my boundaries?
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:What situations do I let myself enter into? And that was—and then the other thing is that a lot of times it's not about what you do. It's not even about winning. It's about who makes the fewest mistakes.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:It's really—it's not even about being the best, the smartest, the brightest. It's about making the least mistakes.
Lisa:Wow...
Daryl:In this situation, how many doors do I open for my opponent?
Lisa:I totally...
Daryl:These things are great, right?
Lisa:Yes, yes, yes.
Daryl:There’s just me posing on the world and more about controlling myself.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:And am I allowing myself to be manipulated this way? Am I allowing myself to be grabbed here? Am I allowing his energy to mess with my mindset?
Lisa:Wow, that is gold.
Daryl:In a tournament, I've seen them lose the match before it even begins. Get you two guys step up, and the rest get in there, and they like their eyeballing on each other.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:You see one guy like and he's just kind of coward. Like he lost before we even get started. So...
Lisa:I haven’t seen that in ultramarathons are—another sporting analogy, but I've seen when people start bargaining with themselves and you do during an ultra. You start saying, 'Well, if I just get to there, I'll be happy with my results’. Or if you start to negotiate with yourself as how far you can get. And when I'm when I see people going, 'Well, I've at least done more than I've ever done before and therefore it's a success'. And when I start to hear talk like that, I know we're in the battle, like we are in the battle. And if they don't change the mindset, they're not going to because they're no longer in that, 'I'm gonna do this, come hell or high water there in the' Well, it's okay to fail and it is okay to fail. But in the battle, you don't want to be in that mindset. You want to be in that mindset, like, 'I'm going for this and I'm giving it everything I have.’
When you start to negotiate with yourself where ‘It would be okay if I got to that point, and therefore this is the longest I've ever run and therefore that's still a success'. When you start doing that type of bargaining with yourself, you're in deep shit basically because you've got to tune your psychology around too because otherwise, you're going to give yourself a way out.
I remember when I was running in the 220k race in the Himalayas that extreme altitude and I had a point where I just completely broke after going up the second path, and it was about—I'd been out there for 40 plus hours in a massive snowstorm. I had hypothermia. I had altitude sickness, asthma. I was just completely good enough reasons to be pulling out. And one of my guys came back to me, and I said, 'I think it's only two kilometres to the top of the mountain because you're calculating in your head'. And he came back and said, 'No, it's six kilometres to go'. And that just completely broke my mentality because six kilometres, I was going out 3k an hour, it was two hours of hell, and I couldn't, and it broke me. And I just fell into a heap and started bawling my eyes out, and everybody was giving me permission to give up. They were like, huddling around, 'You're amazing. We're so proud of you and you did everything you could', and then there was one guy. And he came over, and he shocked me, and he wasn't smiling, and he wasn't patting me on the back, and he was like, ‘Get the F up now’.
Daryl:You're so close.
Lisa:‘You're so close, you're not failing, and I'm not letting you fail and get your ass up off the ground. And I'm going to stay here with you. And I'm going to walk you up top of that mountain’. And that was key because it got me over that psychological break—I broke, but he picked me up, and he got me back on my feet. And I followed his instructions. I just did what he told me to do, put one foot in front of the other, and he got me over that hump, literally. And it's this type of stuff that you learn through sports; it's just so valuable.
Daryl:It's just overcoming obstacles and just testing yourself. You don't know what you're capable of until you do it. You can spend all day reading a book about tennis, but until you're out there actually playing it. And there's learning you have to learn, you can learn through reading through lecture through conversation, personal experiences, and through other people's experiences and that's...
Lisa:That's what this is about.
Daryl:Yes, I mean Alan Watts has this great video calledThe Dream of Life. Imagine if every night you went to sleep, you could dream, however many years of life that you wished and because it's your dream, you can make them as wonderful as you want it. And so for the first—let's say you're dreaming 100 years of life every night. And maybe you do this for a couple of years, every night for a few years, you're dreaming 100 years of life. And all these lives that you're living, they're all the most filled with all the pleasures and all the wonderful things that you could possibly want. And what do you think would happen? And over time, you would kind of get bored, and you would want some risk and some adversity. And then eventually, you would want to be able to dream and go to sleep, and not know the outcome. ‘I want to go to sleep. I want to have this adventure, but I don't want to know the outcome’.
And that's kind of like that's almost like life. And if you could dream a lifetime every night in your—in a life of eighty years, you could possibly dream the life you're living right now. And that's the whole thing of evolution. Evolution is about growth and challenge and overcoming obstacles and...
Lisa:Yes, obstacles like phone calls coming in the middle of your podcast.
Daryl:But, we got—everyone’s with me.
Lisa:I think people listening to my podcasts are quite used to interruption. You just cannot stop the world from functioning half the time like somebody's phone is somewhere.
Daryl:Murphy's Law, you just gotta keep on recording. If you wait for perfection, it's never gonna happen.
Lisa:Exactly. You could panic now and start editing for Africa or another way, you could just get it out there and apologise for what happened, which we'll do. So, Daryl, I want to move now because I think there was absolutely brilliant and really insightful.
I want to move into the business side of things. And you've had a really successful business. You've taken lots of businesses to the million-dollar in a plus businesses from scratch, you've done that over and over again. You've helped people scale up and develop these systems and mine the data and work out all this complicated world of online, which is I'd struggle with daily so I want to know from you, how the heck do you do this? And what are some of your greatest secrets from building businesses over a long period of time now?
Daryl:That's a great question. There's a lot of different places to start; I think one of the hardest places and where I've had the most failure myself is getting something new going because well, one, it's just not my superpower. But if you've got someone that's got a proven concept, and that's really how in the beginning, I should look it up.
But I got my seven-step rollout system. It's like you always start with a market first. So that means you always have to start with a need and or want so because you can't—the idea of selling ice to Eskimos. It's not about doing mental gymnastics and pushing something on someone that they don't want. That might happen in the world. There might be people that invest a lot of time, energy and resources in that but I have no interest. It's really tough to be like I'm gonna generate this demand. It's not there. The demand already exists. People already want to feel beautiful, people already want to be entertained, people already want to travel and to explore the world. So these needs and wants and that already exists. The idea is that you want to stand in front of it. The demand and want is already there and it's constantly evolving. And every time someone a business comes out, and you create a new product or service to fix a problem there'll be a new problem.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:Because now, like before the internet, the issue was how are we going to have these conversations like we can? You’re New Zealand, I'm in Vietnam, how will we do this? Well, now Zoom is created. These companies created tool, and they created tool. And now here's Zoom, but then what's the next issue? And then what's the next problem? So problems are markets, not demographics.
Lisa:Oh, wow.
Daryl:Not demographics, the problem is a market. This is the problem that we solve for people. Once you've got that a lot of it—for me, it's like different ways that you can go, but the purpose of business is to locate a prospect, turn that prospect into a customer and then make a customer your friend.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:It's really a big part of it. It's tough to have a business survive. There are businesses that survive off one-time sales, but the vast majority of businesses need recurring business, recurring freight, ongoing relationships. And a lot of businesses aren't thinking about how to do that. And so, your business is a service to the world. And so the first thing you have to figure out on a small scale, ‘What problem do I solve’? And when you solve a problem, you kind of need to create, I call it a black box. This black box maybe is a mystery to the outside world; we can use a dentist's office people come in crying and in pain on one side, they go through the black box, which is a series of checklists, checklists for this, checklist for that, checklist for next thing, okay, check that we did this, this, this, this is this, boom, they leave smiling and happy on the other side. So that's the black box. That's the problem-solving box.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:The problem-solving box, all the company is one group of people solving a problem for another group of people via a product or service.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:Before that problem is, and you've got it, now you need to design it. Here's some people solve problems really well, but they don't do it in a way that's scalable. So the rule of 10,000. Now I know how to solve the problem. Now I know THE kind of the type of people having that problem. How do I solve 10,000 of these problems for people, think, if I had to bake a pie if I'm trying to bake one pie versus bake 10,000 pies...
Lisa:It's going to be more efficient.
Daryl:there's a different mindset that you got like, I need a bigger kitchen, I got to do that. You've got like planning in batches, and food storage, it changes the nature of things. And then you got to kind of go out and find those people and that's like a marketing function.
So there's—actually, I can share this. So last year, I actually spent like $40,000 hiring all these research teams to help get down to what are the critical success factors for small and medium-sized businesses?
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:We came up with eight, there's actually nine, but the ninth one is government and economic factors. And it's not realistic that a person is going to influence.
Lisa:No.
Daryl:Not one person.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:No, it's not realistic. So the ones that we can influence is things like self-efficacy, which means your ability to be effective with your time, your energy, just yourself and through others. So it's like leadership is part of that, right? Your time management is part of that like mindset might be part of that. But self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing strategy, market intelligence. So these are different market intelligence is understanding the needs, wants desires, problems of the people of the marketplace, and the competitors, the available options.
So it's market intelligence is like, what's going on out there? And then marketing strategy is how am I going to get my message across. Then you have sales skills and strategies, sales strategy. And then you have money management. You have business operating systems, which is—it could be technology, it could be simple checklists, it could be meeting rhythms, it could be a hiring process, that's the operating systems.
And then you've got business intelligence, and business intelligence is like the awareness of different things. So for example, like you are working with my partner, Kathy. She's helping you with your podcasts, you're getting greater awareness on how many downloads are we getting and how many people are sharing the downloads and how many people are listening and then coming my way—that's all business intelligence stuff.
Daryl:It's the idea of not just doing activities, but to actually measure… Right. But it needs to be aware. It’s like wearing a heart rate monitor, right? Like how's my—that's an intelligence system. How's my heart rate doing? How's my heart rate variability?
Lisa:Yes. I do all of that.
Daryl:What's my sleep pattern?
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl: Am I waking up twenty nights? That's like business intelligence. Those eight factors really are the critical make or break focus points for business.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:And anything that you would do for a business should back into one of those. So, team building activity. Well, that's kind of self-efficacy, maybe operating systems, it depends. You're going to do a podcast, well, that's a marketing strategy, right? And then the strategic planning is the plan strategically of how you're going to pull the strings together. And like, we know how you plan you develop, how you plan to meet people, is there a thought process and from all this stuff?
Lisa:And the hard thing is for the young entrepreneurial. I know we have a lot of people who, in business, starting businesses, or in developed businesses and wanting to scale further. You’re wearing so many hats at the beginning, like you're in charge of all of those departments if you like, and that is the very hard thing at the beginning. Once you get a team around you like we're at a stage now where we have small teams that are helping us with different aspects of what we do, and we're trying to outsource the stuff we're not good at. It's not our specialty, because we don't want to waste... But at the beginning, you have to do it all. And so you're just constantly wearing these multitasking hats and not being very efficient.
Daryl:Right.
Lisa:How do people get to that next rung on the ladder? And this is something that where we've been backwards and forwards going on for a long time. How do you get to the next stage? And how do you make an effective team? And how do you outsource certain things, but not the other things? And it's getting to that next level, isn't it?
Daryl:Yes.
Lisa:And at the beginning, you just forbought everything.
Daryl:If you've been doing a lot of activity, and you're not really sure what's working, a simple way to think about this is forget Uber and Grab and these other...
Lisa:Yes, this huge...
Daryl:Originally, if you were a cab driver, you would have a car, and your idea first figure out where are the people who need to be driven places and then pay money to do it. Maybe it's taking kids to school, maybe it's picking people up at the train station, or the bus station or the airport, maybe it's doctor's office appointments, right? Like every week for whatever.
But first, if you were the taxi driver, first, you'd have to figure out, how do I keep my schedule full every day? How do I keep myself busy every day? And so first, it's where are the customers? And where do they want to go? Right? Where are the customers and where they want to go? Can I take them there? You get paid in size over the relationship, and the problem you solve. What that means is if I want to get across town, but I have all day to do it, I can walk, right? But if I'm in a hurry, if my child is sick, and they're bleeding, and I got to get in the hospital in half the time, that's a bigger problem. I'll pay whatever, right? I can rent a car, I could bike, right? If I don't want to rent a car, I could pay more to have someone, you get what I'm saying?
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:I could pay someone to drive me. So there's a scale of problems. So first, like, where are the customers? What do they need? Where do they want to go? And then how do you get yourself busy? Now that you're busy what's going to happen is now you have to do is you have to train someone and had it on quality control. How do I deliver this consistently? What is my doing? Because when you do something for someone, why—what's making people really happy? What's making them not happy? Right? How do I make sure I have a consistent good experience for people? Good.
Now, how do I help more people? And then if you're the cab driver, you might have to take a pay cut? Because at some point, you might have to bring someone in and have them drive the car for half the day.
Lisa:So you can focus on the business. Yes, yes.
Daryl:You can focus on getting another car and getting that. And so there's this weird period where it's like, 'Hey, I'm busy full time, but I can't be any busier'. So I can charge more money, or I'm going to hire someone, give them some of the work.
Lisa:Yes. Big portion of the money.
Daryl:Right. They're gonna take a pint of the money. And now I'm going to get the second part going. And that's actually how Kathy got started. So Kathy is working with you. And one of the beginning she had some clients online, and I was like, 'What do you like doing the most? What's the one thing that you think you can do a lot of? And she really enjoys the writing component', and so we got her really busy. And then she hired someone, and then right? And then she was busy, and they're busy, she hired another person. And she had another person on now she had like a team of six, she's got some, like 26 people now. But in the beginning, she had like four or five, six, 'Hey, now you need a manager'. 'Okay, well, now I need a manager', okay, and that's your manager for the team and the next problem and building that out. And that's a really natural way to grow.
And part of what helps you do that is documentation and training, an edge explained, demonstrate, guide, and power. First, explain how you do it. Let me demonstrate it for you. So you can see it done. And then let me guide you in doing it with you. And then I'm going to empower you to do it on your own, make some mistakes and learn from them, and just repeat that process.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:So it's an edge thing. And that's creating documentations and systems. But then you've got to actually keep—now you're getting into a different level. How do you communicate a vision? How do you keep a team productive? How do you monitor progress? How do you—because we're talking about self-efficacy, right? If you hire someone that could be brilliant, but if they don't get the work done, and now you're getting into people skills, and how do I communicate? And how do I help them tap into their own internal motivation? So they're not just showing up, clicking on the paycheck, and just clocking out, going home just on their phone all day. So these are different tiers of problems that people fall into. So I don't know if I read a whole of...
Lisa:No, these are perfect, Daryl, and it does highlights here. There's always the next level.
Daryl:Crazy amounts of entrepreneurship.
Lisa:No, but, like getting out of the startup gates is the hardest part and you dealing also with self-doubt and imposter syndrome often, and can I do this? And people telling you you can’t. Your family members or friends going, 'What the hell are you doing? And you've tucked in your regular job for this'? And you know, that 80% or more of businesses fail. I can't remember what the statistics were, but they're pretty horrific. And you're wearing all these hats. And what you then see is a lot of people starting to burn out. And that's really like part of what we do is all about managing stress and not burning out and how’s the basics of health because you need to do all that in order to be successful because there's no use having millions of dollars in the bank, but you are dead because that isn't going to help anybody.
Daryl:I've seen that. I've seen people sacrifice—I see people make money and keep their health at the same time. But I've also seen a lot of people sacrifice their health to make money and then end up spending all that money trying to get their health back.
Lisa:To get their health back. And I must admit like I've—not for the—just for the business but saying in rehabilitating mum cost me my health. I ended up nose diving because you're working 18 hour-days sometimes and you just go and helpful either trying to make the mortgage payments at the same time by the hyperbaric chambers, or the whatever she needs and trying to rehabilitate, and running all these juggling balls that we all have in various combinations. And you can't work yourself into the absolute—into the grave if you're not careful. And that's why health and resilience and stress reduction and stuff is what we do.
Daryl:Yes, it's always best to have people—one of the biggest—and I've done this before, I've done this a couple of times, unfortunately. Better to collect money first and then develop a product. What I mean is like in my hometown, they're opening up a gym, and they were building, they bought this building, they were kind of doing rentals on the inside, and they set up a trailer outside. And they were actively marketing and were signing up people for the gym that was not yet finished being built...
Lisa:Brilliant
Daryl:...so they're not yet open. And what happened was at some point, they just closed down the whole operation and left. And what it was is they had a pre-launch goal for themselves. ‘We need to generate this many new members in order to breakeven, or we stop’. And that's a really good thing, and you don't, it's like if you just get pre-orders, Elon Musk did this with, I think, the model three. He made $100 million having people prepay $1,000 on a car. He hadn’t built the factory to make it.
Lisa:Wow. But then it’s Elon Musk.
Daryl:Well, no, but, yes, okay, but I mean...
Lisa:Reputation.
Daryl:In any way you shape or form it because he built a prototype so he had something he could show people, and they could see and they could—he could articulate what his vision was.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:And then he said, 'Hey, if you want to get one and be one of the first you have to make a non refundable $1,000 deposit' and he created $100 million, which is proof of concept.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:Use that $100 million to build a factory and then charge them the rest of the money for the car.
Lisa:Brilliant.
Daryl:And that is of demand. And this is where people go wrong. For example, I like baking pies, my hobby is baking pies. I like baking pies. People praise me all the time for my pies. Man, it would be so great if the whole city just praised me for being such a great pie maker. I'm going to build this business for me and how great my pies are. I'm going to plan this logo, and I'm going to plan the layout. I'm going to plan the menu, and all this stuff. And then I make all these pies. And then what I do is I tell all my friends about my pie shop, and they go, 'Wow, Daryl, your brand color is so nice, and wow what a nice logo and what a nice menu', my friends come in and make an obligatory purchase.
Lisa:Yes.
Daryl:Because they're my friend, but that doesn't last. And then I go through the seesaw where they buy the purchase. They make a purchase. So now I stopped telling people about my pie shop because I'm busy making the pies. But while I'm making the pies, there's no one getting people to come.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:I deliver those pies, but they're just my friends. They're buying out of social, like social contract, you're my friend, not because it's something they need. And this business is to fulfill my ego as a business owner, it's not to provide a service to the community.
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:Because to provide a service to the community, I might like making pies, but I need to figure out who needs pies and I might find that there's some office buildings where these people are so busy, they don't have time to cook they're always on the go. And so I would make pies to go, and I would make a custom for their dietary nutrition perhaps. And now it's a symbiotic relationship. It's not a self-serving ego-driven business. It's fulfilling a need. That's something—that's why the market intelligence part is so big of those eight because it's how—you might not have everything else in line, but if you're trying to sell gourmet food to people as they leave in all you can eat buffet...
Lisa:And I've done this before I've made a course because I think it's what people want, and then worked out later on that, no, that's not quite what they wanted. They wanted something slightly different. So, we all always do now like questionnaires and polls, and ‘what is it that you need’? And how do you want this?
Daryl:It’s in the phase.
Lisa:Yes. And then start—yes because you can think you know what your customer wants and needs, but they will tell you better what they actually want and need. And so always listening to your customers and always seeing what direction are they going in and what do they need next is another good thing. So okay, I've done this part of the thing, but can you actually add on something else another service that will be a benefit to them, that you can provide to them, and create what you call the value ladder so that you have more things ready to go.
And all this is really, really complicated, but you've done this with lots and lots of people and lots of businesses and scaled them up. So, if anybody wants to like—coming to wrapping up the session now, Daryl, if somebody wanted to work with you as a business coach, where do they find you? And what sort of work do you do nowadays? What is your sort of core focus?
Daryl:Yes, good question. So, they go tobestbusinesscoach.ca, that'll redirect them to my main site, they can go check me out there. They can look up Daryl Urbanski on all the social media platforms.
Lisa:Yes, you’re pretty famous.
Daryl:Well, we're all famous now. We all have social platforms, so. But I am king in my own universe, that's true. I mean, that's it. And right now, really, what I'm focused on is group coaching. So when I had my martial arts school, I used to love being a part of an environment where people came to get better every day. No one goes to the gym, and they're like, ‘I want to break a leg today’, literally, ‘I want to get sick today’. They come and, ‘I want to get better, I want to fix this part of my jiu jitsu game’, or ‘I want to do squats because I want my butt to be’, whatever it is. But the idea of improving and improvement.
So I'm really focused on my group coaching mastermind, where I'm putting groups of people like that together. So it's a group coaching. And then for people that want more dedicated attention, I have a virtual VP of Marketing Service, where it's like, I can work with them or their team and be present in the meetings, it's a consultation, or I'm a consultant. I'm not necessarily executing or implementing.
So there's a good coaching programme, there's a virtual VP of Marketing. But then I also have a pay for performance model, which is with select people where it's a good fit, win-win-win. There might be an upfront payment just for some setup fees, $1,000, or two, or whatever, depending on the scope of the project. But really, they're only going to pay if they profit because I think that in the B2B space if you want to be a doctor and engineer and architect, you have to pass exams that demonstrate knowledge and capacity. But in the B2B space, anybody can say they're a life coach, anyone can say they're a business coach, anyone can say they're a marketing agency. There's no real way to separate them.
And you can get a certification. But there's not really any real scientific validation of these certification programmes. I just—these companies just create them, and you pay them a thousand bucks and go do a weekend boot camp. And now you're a business coach, and someone should bet their future, their life, their ability to pay medical bills and put their kids in school, on your weekend or dayment of so. I, like, I got away from providing marketing services and being paid a retainer. And I don't think there's anything wrong with people that do that if they provide... Well, I look for more for partnerships. I'm getting away from clients and more towards partnerships. We're like, ‘Man, I know some things. I've done some stuff, looking for people I can partner with, and it's a win-win’. And yes, so they just sort of…
Lisa:If I’m not successful, you're not successful.
Daryl:Right.
Lisa:So if you don't make it, you don't make it, that's the end of the partnership and move on to the next thing. Yes. And I think that's a great model. I think that well it works, it's really good.
Well, I think we've bloody covered a whole lot of areas there. Everywhere from use development through to martial arts through to Jiu-jitsu, and building businesses and overcoming obstacles. So it's been a real fascinating ride with you. I'm really stoked to meet you and Kathy. I think you're brilliant people. You're good people.
And I just want to give a plug to your podcast as well. Can you tell everyone where to find you? So you've mentioned your website, which we'll put it obviously in the show notes and stuff, but where can they find you on the podcast?
Daryl:Yes, just Google, The Best Business Podcast with Daryl Urbanski. It's not to be egocentric. It's just when I did the keyword research when I launched my podcasts, the most searched word term was best business podcast, so I was like that's gonna be my name.
Lisa:I didn’t do that, I wouldn have known to look for an SEO keyword search back in the day. I just went, 'Oh I'm all about pushing the limits, therefore I'm Pushing the Limits'.
Daryl:Keywords are fantastic, sorry to interrupt. Keywords are fantastic because in the privacy of my own home while I'm alone, I go into Google and I type in what are my actual thoughts. So keywords can actually be a sign of like mindshare. How many people are thinking this on what sort of ongoing basis. So if you check your keyword search volume, and not all businesses have to use keywords, but it's great from a research and market intelligence point.
I actually call the Google A to Z. A lot can be learned just going to Google and if you're a chiropractor, put in ‘chiropractor space A’ and look at what shows up. And then chiropractor space B, chiropractor space C, and just take note because these are suggested things is; Google's going, this is what people are looking for.
And if you just take an inventory of A to Z around your keyword and what you do, you can learn a lot about where people are, what they're looking for, the results that they want, you go to Google Trends, you put your keyword in there, you can see the trends over years of the search volume. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to relate to sales. But if there's 100,000 people that are interested in the topic, you might have greater success, instead if there's only a thousand. It just depends on your ability to reach and get a lot of…
Lisa:Google and all of that.
Daryl:Keywords are great. The internet is such a powerful tool. You can go on Amazon and look at other products and read the reviews. And you can go on Reddit, put your keyword in Reddit, you can see what people are saying in the forums, you can learn their language, their pain points, their wants and needs. There's a ton of—it's just the world's become so transparent, so well connected.
Lisa:Ijust learned half a dozen things that I didn't know, so…
Daryl:Yes. It's so great. It can just really make a difference, where are the customers? What do they want? What problem do I solve for them? And then how do you build a relationship? How do you get them to raise their hand? That's typically the first step.
Who here, who would beat you next? I call it the food court test. So, what I mean is a lot of companies—so think of a mall food court. Let's say I want to sell ice cream. So I could go into the food court, and I could get up on a table, and I could go, 'Baskin Robbins' and look around. A lot of people be like, 'What'? and the people who know me might come over and be like, 'Daryl, what are you doing on the table, man? How are you doing'? Like, 'What's going on? Come on down, how you doing? What's going on'? and be like, ‘Hey, what's going on? I got this nougat ice cream from Baskin', okay, whatever, right? That's one type of marketing. And that's about me, my company, my logo, Baskin Robbins. That doesn't mean anything to anybody. But if you instantly got on a table at a busy food court and I went free ice cream. Totally different things. People come to you, like, what free ice cream? ‘Yes, here we have eight flavours. You can get a free sample if you like. And then it's $3 for a tub of ice cream for $5 for two, which flavour would you like to try first’?
Lisa:Brilliant.
Daryl:Totally different analogy. Totally different situation. Totally different, right?
Lisa:Yep.
Daryl:And the flavours that I would make. I can make the flavours that I want. I could be like, 'Ooh, Cheez Whiz and pickles or a bubble—or like nuts and bubblegum' together at last, right? Like, but that's for me, and you can experiment with that. Or I could just go on to Google and go Ice cream, ice cream A, ice cream B, ice cream C, and be like, what are the top—go to Google Trends. What are the top ice cream flavours?
Lisa:Wow.
Daryl:Hey, these ice creams are the top. Now I'm delivering something the world wants and needs and is looking for.
Lisa:It was such a good analogy, Daryl. It's really good. I'm gonna go on to Google Trends and see. This just so—I think the hard thing for entrepreneurs is that there is so many things you need to be good at, that you don't even know where to start half the time. Is it product development is it...?
Daryl:It fails because people put their money down. And it looks—you can even go—look, you just be transparent. Look, I don't even have the product ready yet. This is what I'm thinking of doing. Would you be willing to put a percentage down to save your spot? Would you be willing to get a discounted deal if I give you...?
People like they say the two hardest things to get people to do with you is have sex and give you money. They require the highest level of faith and trust in a relationship. And we all know people who maybe it's not so hard. If I just walked into a stranger on the street and asked him for money, it's going to be they're going to react as if I asked them to just have sex with me like, 'Who are you? I don't know what? I'm just gonna give you my money'. It's gonna be the same sort of reaction. So you have to build that trust. And but you also need to say, 'Hey, if I'm going to build this amazing product. Are you in or not’? like what's going on?
And then after that, it's really those eight categories: self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing strategy, market intelligence, sales strategy and skills, money management, operating systems of the business and then business intelligence. And again, you need all of them. You need all of them. Those are the eight areas, but the number one thing is, ‘what problem am I solving? And are people proving the demand is there with their wallets’?
Lisa:And it's not just my—what I want for my ego, but what is actually required out there in the world. And I think that's a really—even that answering that first question was a biggie. That pie analogy was a good one.
Hey, Daryl, look, I've taken up enough of your time today. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. I highly recommend everyone go and check out The Best Business Podcast and then hop over onto Best Business—what was it .ca?
Daryl:bestbusinesscoach.ca
Lisa:bestbusinesscoach.ca, go and see Daryl over there. Thanks very much, Daryl.
Daryl:Goodbye, everyone.
That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
31 Mar 2022
Using Peptides to Boost Your Health and Well-Being with Brian Graham
01:04:12
Whichever stage of life you might be in, you’ll want to live it to the fullest. You’ll want mental clarity to perform at your best, energy to spend time with your loved ones, and a strong metabolism to maintain your ideal body weight. Using peptides is a great and effective way to remain healthy so you can make the most out of your life.
In this episode, Brian Graham discusses the functions and benefits of different peptides. He also shares some exciting developments in the peptide space. Peptides come with amazing effects — but they can also come with unpleasant side effects when not used with caution.
If you want to learn more about how peptides can power your body and enhance your quality of life, then this episode is for you!
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Learn how peptides work on your body.
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If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
Brian is a peptide specialist at Boulder Longevity Institute.
When he first entered the peptide space, he worked more on performance optimization.
He underwent educational training at the American Academy for Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine and earned a formal certification.
He met Dr. Yurth while she was working at an orthopedic practice. They focused on bringing medical innovation to clinical relevance through collaboration.
[06:48] What Are Peptides?
Peptides have been around for some time, even in traditional medicine.
They are naturally-occurring products that help regulate or stimulate a given process. For example, insulin is a peptide that regulates blood glucose to prevent neuropathic pain and other complications.
Many things can be targeted on a cellular level with a given peptide.
[09:07] Proteins vs. Peptides
A protein that’s a large peptide has more binding sites or activity.
Smaller sequences of amino acids become more specific for a given cellular target.
When chopped up, large proteins are basically made up of peptides.
Many environmental factors inhibit your body’s ability to make a given peptide, such as prioritization and accumulation of stressors.
The aging process is associated with a decreased ability to make certain peptides.
[12:05] BPC-157
BPC-157 is a gastric-derived peptide that naturally occurs in the digestive system and helps support the cells and makeup of the digestive system.
It increases blood flow, thus helping modulate healing and recovery processes, especially in the musculoskeletal system.
It also helps with neuron regeneration and improves the integrity of the blood-brain barrier.
It’s an F-actin sequestering peptide that dampens the effects of scarring.
[17:00] What’s Happening in the Peptide Space
The peptide space is incredibly dynamic with lots of innovative research and people working hard to get it to clinical relevance.
While much of it is on the bench, there are many strides in the peptide space.
There are many factors affecting the accessibility of peptides, such as market exclusivity.
[19:42] Increasing Accessibility
Brian has been advocating and informing his patients of what’s available to them and gives them access if possible.
Peptides that are in clinical development and have gone through safety trials require an API.
Unfortunately, there are still some inconsistencies in products with company pharmacies that they partner with.
It’s important to assess what’s going to be effective for you.
[23:24] SS-31
SS-31 is a mitochondrial peptide that has market exclusivity.
It targets the inner mitochondrial membrane and buffers lipid peroxidation, improving the overall system.
Brian and his team are working on enhancing its effects by adding other synergistic materials to it.
[27:33] GHK-Cu
GHK-Cu is widely known in the aesthetic space for collagen deposition and reduction of fine lines and wrinkles.
Peptides should be used with caution because taking too much might compromise your health.
It’s also being used for postoperative recovery and it could potentially help reorient genetic issues and damage.
[31:15] Ta1
Thymosin alpha 1 modulates the immune system. It protects immunocompromised people who are more vulnerable to viral bacteria.
It’s used for vaccines against viral hepatitis, certain types of cancer, and autoimmune diseases.
Essentially, it helps with immunosurveillance by identifying foreign invaders, such as viruses and bacteria, and removing them.
Though it has an incredible safety record, it’s under scrutiny and there is limited access to it.
[31:15] Semaglutide and GLP-RA
Semaglutide and GLP-RA are synthetic peptides that regulate metabolism, increasing energy utilization and decreasing fat storage.
It’s commonly used for glucose control.
It also regulates metabolic processes in the brain, potentially reversing cognitive issues.
However, it might also lead to nausea, vomiting, distension, and other issues because it slows down stomach emptying.
[43:42] MOD GRF 1-29
Overstimulation of CJC-1295, which upregulates growth hormones, can lead to a host of issues, such as fluid retention and neuropathic pain.
MOD GRF 1-29 promotes more robust growth hormone production.
Using growth hormone-stimulating hormones might cause dependence because it will shut down your ability to produce growth hormones.
Abusing growth hormones can shut down your body’s abilities.
Growth hormones are released robustly at night and put you in a position to recover.
[49:23] Other Peptides
Brian is only familiar with Epithalamin with regards to pineal gland-derived peptides.
Cerebral lysine supports the nervous system and can potentially treat Alzheimer’s disease, brain injury, stroke, etc.
MOTS-c is a mitochondrial-derived peptide that’s associated with longevity.
Humanin is used with MOTS-c, due to its synergistic effects, to encourage greater levels of mitochondria and metabolic flexibility.
Metabolic flexibility translates to overall system integrity, resiliency, and performance.
[57:24] Supersapiens
Supersapiens sensors track glucose, ketones, and lactate in real-time.
It helps enhance your performance and guides you in knowing what you need.
It’s best to seek guidance when you start getting into the peptide space so you’ll be able to do things effectively and safely.
7 Powerful Quotes
“... essentially, what it does is it helps to regulate a given process. And that’s what peptides do, they are essentially a key to a door or an opportunity to either lock a door of a given process or open it up…”
“[Peptides] could be analogous to a dimmer switch on the wall: you’re turning up the light or turning down the light, but that’s going to correspond with the given physiologic mechanism.”
“Just because this stuff looks good on paper doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be good for everyone. It’s really important to distil down what is going to be effective for you so you’re not wasting your time and your money doing a treatment that you don’t necessarily need.”
“If you’re in a chronic deteriorative state where your body’s sort of ill-equipped to address that need, then you’re going to chronically upregulate inflammation and essentially chronically deteriorate, unfortunately.”
“More is not always better.”
“Everything happens in a rhythm. Everything has its own clock.”
“It’s important [...] to have guidance, whether that’s with me or someone else that is skilled and understands this constantly evolving field to really do things effectively.”
Resources
Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming apatron!
Brian Grahamis the Program Director at Boulder Longevity Institute. He’s a certified peptide specialist through the International Peptide Society and American Academy for Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine.
Brian is an industrious health and wellness professional with a thorough understanding of clinical peptide modalities. Through his work, he provides high-level concierge health services to patients and is well-versed in peptide sales.
If you want to know more about Brian, you can connect with him onLinkedIn.
Enjoyed This Podcast?
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.
Defying the Odds and Staying Relentless Amid Adversity with Cushla Young
01:12:53
When your loved one has a serious illness, the world feels a bit darker. But you shouldn’t lose hope. In this episode, I talk to Cushla Young, my lifelong friend and the co-author ofRelentless. This book recounts my mother’s road to recovery despite seemingly insurmountable odds.
Cushla and I talk about the challenges my family and I face to cope with my mum’s sudden illness. You’ll also hear a little from my mum and her experiences through this ordeal.
Our circumstances didn't stop me from being relentless. My goal was for my mum to recover, despite the experts saying otherwise. I wanted to extend my mother's lifespan and give her the best quality of life I can. Throughout my mother's treatment and rehabilitation, I had to step up and take control. I managed to compartmentalise things before they got out of hand.
If you want to learn about my relentless effort to defy the odds, this episode is for you. You will gain insights into how I challenged myself to keep my family together in a time of crisis.
CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?
If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremeschronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
[04:43] Cushla’s Interview with Lisa’s Mum, Isobel
As an educator, Isobel shares that she felt terrible when the doctors told her about what she can't do after the aneurysm.
Getting a driver’s license boosted Isobel’s confidence.
Isobel advises people who are going through a rough time to hang in there and continue to fight.
To maintain her health, Isobel is currently going to the gym, taking yoga, undergoing hyperbaric treatment and attending art classes. She feels amazing about herself.
[14:04] How an Aneurysm Affected Isobel and the Family
After the aneurysm, Isobel went from an active individual to someone who couldn’t function.
Lisa shares some medical mishaps on the day her mum was rushed to the hospital. These mishaps caused delays in Isobel’s surgery.
It took 18 hours for Isobel to be taken into surgery because she had to be airlifted to another hospital.
The fear of death coming to her mum was a big wake up call for Lisa.
[20:03] Lisa’s Relentless Fight for Her Mum’s Life
In the initial phases, Lisa was in shock and was extremely terrified. After processing the situation, she was in a ‘mission mode’.
Lisa’s father came up to her, saying that they needed to plan the funeral despite Isobel still being alive.
When people are in crisis, you need to take control and give them jobs, so they don't panic.
Over the next few weeks, Lisa was relentless in organising her family and the logistics surrounding her mum’s medical needs.
[26:14] Sustaining Herself Throughout This Journey
Lisa shares her experience crossing the Libyan desert with an abusive boyfriend. During that extreme situation, she learned to compartmentalise.
She will fall apart, but not right now when there’s something that needs to be done.
Lisa and her family had to stay with Isobel in the hospital around the clock for she could go any moment.
Lisa also had to learn a lot about aneurysms, medicine and rehabilitation.
Amidst all this, Lisa’s dad experienced heart problems, so he had to go home.
[32:17] The Importance of Self-Care
Lisa knows the value of exercise and having fresh air from time to time.
She made sure to take at least half an hour to an hour for herself.
When you’re in stressful situations, you tend to put self-care aside.
However, it’s vital to have systems in place to manage the stress so that you’re prepared to continue fighting.
[35:02] Lisa’s Family
Lisa’s brothers were very supportive throughout the whole process.
Lisa’s family trusted her and what she told them to do. Her father also stepped up to help.
He was relentless in caring for and supporting his wife’s recovery.
[38:25] Coming Home from Wellington after the Surgery
Lisa was happy that her mother was stable. But she is also worried during the flight because any dropping of pressure could cause Isobel’s death.
Lisa sneaked into the hospital to have a friend check her mother for sleep apnea. And the results confirmed her suspicions.
She had to convince the medical staff to provide her mother with a C-pap machine.
Her mother could breathe properly with the machine.
[44:43] Moving Lisa’s Ageing Mother
Lisa shared how they came up against people who insisted on having her mother placed in a facility.
A social worker was against them having a caregiver.
Lisa shares that she had to fight for the resources she wanted for her mother.
[46:08] Caring for Isobel at Home
Lisa and her family were willing and able to care for Isobel in the comforts of their home.
A social worker told her that they wouldn't be able to care for her mother adequately.
But Lisa remained relentless in the face of all these judgements. She and her family wouldn’t go down without a fight.
[50:57] The Importance of Mindset
Professionals show you statistics based on their knowledge and experience. Don't discount their expertise, but don't lose hope.
How you approach things is critical. You have the power to control your health and well-being.
Lisa brings her mum to the gym daily for this reason. Lisa wants Isobel surrounded by athletes pushing their limits.
If you want to stay alive, you need to work hard to keep fit and healthy.
[1:00:28] Living and Lasting Longer
Living a relentless life means taking lots of small steps and letting them accumulate.
By being relentless, you’ll find more fulfilment and last longer.
Lisa shares that she wants to push degeneration out for as long as possible.
There’s a lot of research now that helps you live longer and better. Don’t feel guilty for investing in your health.
If you want to learn more about how Lisa takes care of her body and her family, tune in to the full episode.
7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode
‘She was really the rock of my world. And then that turned upside down very much overnight. And you go from being this adult kid to complete role reversal where you're now having to do everything for your mum.’
‘We need to set up systems and processes and understand our own bodies and how our bodies work so that we can manage the stress levels.’
‘What I want people to understand is you have to fight for the resources that you want for your loved one.’
‘I'm only ever going to listen to the ones that tell me I can do, not the ones that I tell me I can't do. They may be right. I'm not saying they're not right, but I'm gonna throw the book at this. I'm gonna do whatever it takes.’
‘They're (professionals) making educated guesses, based on the statistics of the past whatever and their experiences. And I get that. And we can't give people false hope. But we've also can't take away all hope.’
‘The older you get, the more effort you have to put into [working hard] if you want to stay alive... If you still want to be alive and enjoy life, then you have to fight for it.’
‘If you have some self-care and take those small steps, whatever that may look like for you at the time of your life, then you are living a life that is relentless.’
About Cushla
Cushla Youngis a life-long friend of Lisa. They met in a running retreat they both participated in 7 to 8 years ago. She is also the co-author of Lisa’s book,Relentless: How a mother and daughter defied the odds.
Cushla is a teacher at the St. John Bosco School, New Plymouth. She is also a Trustee and Educational Coordinator at the Taranaki Gifted Community Trust. Having an interest in gifted education, Cushla provides intellectual and creative ways to support students with advanced and complex learning skills.
The other things Cushla is passionate about are digital technology, literacy and pedagogy. Cushla currently lives in New Zealand with her family.
If you want to reach out to Cushla, you can find her onTwitter.
Enjoyed This Podcast?
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it!If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can find comfort and hope in fighting for their loved ones’ lives.
Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Hey everyone. And before we get on the way with the show today, I just want to remind you to check out all our great programs that we have. We have ourwww.runninghotcoaching.com, where you can find out all about our online run training system, we get video analysis, your customised personalised plan made specifically for you, and ongoing support and help and education around everything running. So check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.
We also have our flagship epigenetics program, which is all about optimising your genetics and making the best out of them and how to do that. Understanding what your genes are all about and how to get the right food, the right exercise, the right timings for everything. Understanding every aspect of your life, your place, your career, your social environment, all of these things, your predispositions and much more. So check that out. Go to lisatamati.com and hit the work with us button and you'll see ourPeak Epigeneticsprogram right there.
Also a reminder to check out the longevity and anti-ageing supplement that I am now importing into New Zealand and Australia in conjunction with Dr Elena Seranova, a molecular biologist who is behind this product. Now this is all about the sirtuin genes basically, which are all your longevity genes. Now NMN is a precursor to something called NAD, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And this is an absolutely essential compound for every in every single molecule— every single cell, I should say, of your body. It's very important in regards to ATP production, and in regards to metabolic health, in regards to autophagy, in regards to sirtuin genes and upregulating those. Make sure you check out theepisodesthat I did with Dr. Elena Seranova and head on over towww.nmnbio.nzif you want to find more about the science of that, and why I am super excited about this product, this longevity and anti ageing product, NMN.
Right. Now, today I have something very, very different. I've turned the tables on myself and I have a very dear friend interviewing me about our book that we wrote together. Cushla Young, she's a, got a master's in English and she is the person who helped me rescue my book when I had a hell of a mess, basically. So I hope you're gonna enjoy this interview. This is all about my mum's story. It's about mindset. It's about going up against all the odds, it's about going against the establishment. So it's a lot of things we cover in this interview. So you're also going to hear from my very special mummy. She's going to come to work and tell us a little bit before she heads off on her coffee date. So now over to the show with Cushla Young and Isobel.
Well hi, everybody. Welcome to Pushing the Limits. Today I am doing something very unusual. And so hi everybody in YouTube land who's listening to this as well. I want to introduce my best friend, Cushla Young. Cushla, welcome to the show.
Cushla Young:Thank you.
Lisa:For starters. Now I'll give you guys a bit of background. Cushla and I have been friends for now, a decade or so. Cushla is the lady that helped me write this book. Without her it would not exist. It wouldn’t have come out before Cushla came along. The book isRelentless: How A Mother and Daughter Defied the Odds. It's my latest book, and Cushla is the magic behind that book. What we're going to be doing today is talking about what the book is about, which is the story of bringing my mum back from a mess of aneurysm, major brain damage at the age of 74, when it was against all the odds, when the medical professionals were telling me the brain damage is so bad that she's never going to recover.
Being an athlete I went, ‘No that's not happening, and we'll find a way.’ This is going to be all about that story. Now I'm going to hand over the reins to Krishna to actually interview me, but I've actually got a very, very special guest sitting here next to me, who is the actual star of the show. And so Cushla is going to, she's going to take off for a coffee date. So I'll have to let her come to work first. So I'm going to pass you over to my very special mummy. There she is, Isobel. And she's gonna talk to Cushla for a second so I'll just pass over the headphones.
Cushla:Hand over the reins.
Lisa:You’re on, Isobel.
Isobel:Okay.
Cushla:Hi Isobel, morning.
Isobel:Good morning, Cushla. How are you?
Cushla:Taking off for a coffee date soon, are you?
Isobel:Yes.
Cushla:So you are a guest of honor for a few minutes on this podcast. This is, I'm going to be a little bit different because I get to interview your daughter rather than her interview others today.
Isobel:That's good.
Cushla:So, but we'll start with you. So you have been on one heck of a journey over the last few years.
Isobel:I sure have.
Cushla:So how can we start with how you're feeling now?
Isobel:I'm feeling good.
Cushla:You're looking great.
Isobel:I can go for a coffee and I can go walking on my own. And I can do almost anything.
Cushla:When Isobel left my house after a lovely glass of wine the other day, you didn't have one, but Lisa did. You drove, didn’t you? You drove her home?
Isobel:I did. Yes. I can drive now. That's good. Especially if Lisa’s having a wine.
Cushla:You get to be a mum.
Isobel:I do, I get, revert back to being mum. Yeah.
Cushla:Yeah, and that must have given you a lot of independence that you have lost for quite a few years.
Isobel:Yes. It’s awesome. You don't realise how isolated people are. They haven't got— We all have a way of getting around here. It’s isolating. Yeah.
Cushla:And can you tell us a bit about what you have been getting up to? I understand you've been doing some art classes with your sister. How's that going?
Isobel:Not as well as I would like to but it's, we're doing all right, you know?
Cushla:Yeah.
Isobel:I'd like the results to be a bit more spectacular. But—
Cushla:It must be nice to be creative.
Isobel:Oh it is. It’s good, it does me good.
Cushla:Now, do you have much of a memory of the hospital time?
Isobel:No.
Cushla:No. What's your first memory that you can recall?
Isobel:Probably where we went to a meeting with all the big guns—
Lisa:At the hospital.
Isobel:At the hospital, and they wrote me off, really.
Cushla:Did they? They underestimated you as well.
Isobel:I can remember saying—
Lisa:I was feeling good. I was feeling good.
Isobel:I was, I was feeling fine before this. Now. I'm feeling terrible. I have been demoted, I've been, lost my independence. Just because they were talking like they were, they shouldn't have done that.
Lisa:They took away all your confidence. And—
Isobel:Yeah, they just.
Cushla:And so your background is similar to mine. You're an educator.
Isobel:Yeah.
Cushla:Have been for decades and decades. You must understand how demotivating it is when somebody tells you what you can't do rather than what you can do.
Isobel:Yeah, that’s it exactly.
Cushla:So when did it change for you after that meeting? What were some of the first things that happened that gave you a bit more confidence?
Lisa:Driving?
Isobel:Getting on a driver's license probably was a major breakthrough. Lisa took me down to the dam by the port and just—
Lisa:It’s been months.
Isobel:Happier—
Cushla:Round and round you.
Isobel:You will, ‘now you drive.’ I was totally gobsmacked.
Cushla:But you did it.
Isobel:I did it.
Cushla:And I understand the doctor was utterly shocked—
Isobel:He was.
Cushla:—when you went in to get your medical for your license.
Isobel:Totally blown away.
Cushla:Yeah.
Isobel:That was a blow away.
Cushla:It had probably been a while since the doctor had responded that way.
Isobel:Yeah, I think so. He was a nice doctor. So that was good.
Cushla:So could you give some advice to someone who might be going through something pretty tough at the moment. What would you say to them?
Isobel:Just hang in there and—
Lisa:Fight.
Isobel:Fight hard. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to grit your teeth and just carry on, really. Yeah.
Cushla:You're one tough lady, aren’t you?
Isobel:I must be.
Cushla:Definitely.
Isobel:So that's what we did.
Cushla:Can you describe some of the routines of things that you do at the moment that keep you in such good health?
Isobel:I go to the gym most days.
Lisa:Do weight training, cardio.
Isobel:I do weights, I do cardio, I do walking on the treadmill, yoga.
Cushla:And you still do your hyperbaric as well?
Isobel:Yes, every day at the moment.
Cushla:Everyday? Wonderful. Still eat the smoothies that Lisa makes you in the mornings?
Isobel:They’re pretty terrible.
Cushla:But they’re good for you, right?
Isobel:But they are good for me. Broccoli is not exciting, and it’s sickening.
Cushla:What we've noticed is, about over even the last six months, is how fit and agile and glowing that you are. That's amazing.
Isobel:It is amazing. It's amazing that you said that. I don't always feel it.
Cushla:Right.
Isobel:It's hard to know where you're at, so.
Cushla:Yeah, I think sometimes what you see is yourself reflected in others’ eyes, and that's a really good indication of how far you've come.
Isobel:Yeah, and I have come a long way.
Cushla:Really.
Isobel:Yeah, a really long way.
Lisa:A bloody long way. All right, now you can go get coffee.
Isobel:I’ll pass you back to Lisa—
Lisa:—and get yourself a coffee date.
Cushla:Enjoy!
Isobel:I will.
Lisa:Thanks, Mummy.
Isobel:Okay.
Lisa:She’s an absolute legend. Thanks, you have a nice coffee. We're now actually going to get into her backstory. Because, I would have done it the other way around and had her at the end of the show. But she needed to get to a coffee date. So she’s just rolling. Yeah, we're rolling with the punches.
But Cushla, this— can you, I'm gonna pass the reins over to you fully. Because you know the story, you lived it with me, you helped me from the get-go pretty much. So over to you. Oh now I’m an interviewee.
Cushla:Got you. We're flipping the tables, aren’t we?
Lisa:Yeah, we sure are.
Cushla:To be interviewed for once, which is fabulous. So this has been a long journey for you and your mum and your family, and you're right. I was, I had known you for a few years before this happened. I think from my perspective, the thing that was so shocking about what originally, with the aneurysm, with your mum, was just how quick things changed overnight. I think we see Isobel now and— how old is mum?
Lisa:She’s 79.
Cushla:79. So we're going back quite a few years, and I used to often pop into the shop and see your mum, and just pop in and say hello. And she is now but she also was been a very intelligent, clear spoken woman that used to do acro-aerobics all the time, she was very fit and healthy, very independent, working still pretty much full-time.
Lisa:Yeah, she was.
Cushla:For somebody watching, to see overnight that she went from that, from a completely functioning full-time working adult, to just being, nothing was there. Overnight, the aneurysm took her from being completely functional to nothing. I think the shock in that first visit and I saw her quite a few weeks after the aneurysm, and you’re back up to New Plymouth. You'd been in Wellington. The shock of seeing her lying there, she had aged a decade overnight.
Lisa:Yeah.
Cushla:It’s hard. Hard to see. I think the shock of that must’ve ripped through your family quite viciously. You notice that change overnight.
Lisa:It was huge. Yeah, to have growing up with mum being always the one supporting me. And the one that was there for me in all the phases of my crazy, upside down life that I've had, you know, with all my adventures supporting me with all lower— dramas and relationship breakups and divorces and business growing.
Cushla:Rooting for you at most of your races.
Lisa:Oh, yes. Yeah. She’d seen, been there, done that with me, I can tell you that she had a hard life with me. She had a good life, she had exciting times with me. She was really the rock of my world. And then that turned upside down very much overnight. And, you know, you go from being this adult kid to a complete role reversal, where you're now you know, having to do everything for your mum, you are advocating, you're fighting, you grow up really quickly, even as a fully-grown adult. Obviously, I still am very much, when you've got a parent, you’re still like a kid in a way to them. That is that was a biggest shocker for me I think was to be, no, now you are the one that's caring for your mum, and you are going to have to pull out all the stops to help her and it’s you know, no longer about you being the selfish egotistical athlete, and there's nothing wrong with it, if you’re an athlete, you have to be if you want to reach, know, do the stuff that I did. But that was a shocker.
And then not, like the— we had medical research mishaps from the very get-go when mum had this aneurysm that happened early in the morning. And an ambulance driver came into the house, you know, they got her into the ambulance up to the hospital, he knew already that she was having a neurological event. And he told the doctor so much, and he just ignored it. He ignored it.
He said, ‘No, she's having a migraine, I think. So we'll just leave it for a few hours and observe her and give her some painkillers.’ Well, you know, ‘Thanks very much for that.’ The first six hours not knowing, and she was dying, basically. She was dying. And I knew she was in deep trouble. And I didn't know what to do. Because at that point in my life, I had no idea of anything like this. So I was never, you know, in a situation like this, I didn't know what was wrong with her. But I knew we were in trouble. And that was a very big wake up call. I actually got our mutual friend, Megan Stewart, who's a paramedic here and the head of the ambulance here. And she came up to the hospital at that time. She sort of rattled some bloody cages very quickly. And because she knew immediately what was happening, stroke or aneurysm or something neurological, migraines. She went and told this doctor what for. He then relented, and we got a CT scan. And that's when we saw the blood right throughout the brain. So that was a very big wake up call for me in a number of ways. Obviously, the shock of it happening to your mum, the fear of her dying, she's being very, very, very close to death at this point. And then realising that, you know, the medical system had not worked for us. And I'm not— you know, we're all human, and we all make mistakes and stuff. But that was a pretty big one. That was a pretty big one.
Cushla:I think, in those situations, we want to trust the people that are— the medical professionals that are around us. For the most part in ED, they're an amazing group of people. But I think also there is a lot to be said for your mum. You knew what a migraine looked like, you should have before. And it's a matter of trusting yourself, isn't it, enough to then think, this isn't to your question what you’re saying, and then fight as hard as you can for a different outcome. Because my understanding about aneurysm is there's a golden hour, or it's really important to be treated.
Lisa:Exactly.
Cushla:A short time.
Lisa:Surgery, that's the golden hour, they talk about getting you into surgery within the hour. It took 18 hours. 18 hours, because not only do we have the medical mishap and we also had the fact that we had to get to our Main Hospital down in Wellington, neurological. Living in a regional area, unfortunately, that's just the way it is. But we had to wait another 12 hours for the air ambulance to actually get to us, and when you're over 65, you’re sort of bumped down the hierarchy, especially if you— if they don't think you're a good, you got good odds. So, you know, we— there were, at that time we had a baby that needed help, and that was more urgent than mum. They have to make those calls. I understand. I don't like it; I understand it. It’s your loved one and you don't really give up.
Cushla:Not at the time because you're also going through the shock of what's happening and trying to process that. In that moment, can you describe, I suppose I want to focus a little bit on what was happening to you and your body. Because I think the thing about this really, this story is that it's not just about a mum surviving an aneurysm, but it's also about you and your family and how you've managed to pull yourself back together as well. So not just Isobel but yourself. I know that a lot of us, all of us will face a moment in our lives where we have to handle a bit of trauma.
Lisa:Yep.
Lisa:What was going on in your body and how did you cope so that you had the ability to fight for your mum? What are you doing in your mind?
Lisa:So in the initial phases, Cushla, you know, you are in shock, you're out, you're terrified. But very, very quickly, oh, especially after the mishap, once I realised what had just happened and the ball’s up that that was, and that it was likely going to cost your life. I just went into what I call mission mode. Like, ‘Okay, right, I am not going— I'm going to research the hell out of this. I'm going to learn everything I can. I'm going to be hypervigilant. I'm going to watch everything they do. I'm going to question everything they do. I'm going to get my family organised.’ Because I had get them down to Wellington. My father was, of course, falling to pieces because it’s the love of his life. He's been, you know, married to her for 55 years. He came up to me already in the ED and said, ‘We better start planning the funeral.’ Because they were, you know, saying to us, she's like, unlikely to survive. And I'm like, ‘Dad, we're not even considering that. She's alive, she's still breathing, and we're gonna fight with everything we have. Here's a list of jobs to do: I want you to go ring so and so, organise this, get the boys down, my brothers down to Wellington, blah, blah, blah.’
When people are in a crisis, you need to take control and give them jobs to do so that they, their, you know, their amygdala, that their permanent part of the brain doesn't go into complete full-blown panic, and which doesn't always work. And I'll relay a story a little bit later, where I did go into full blown panic. It's all very well and good to say this. But at that point in time, I was like, ‘Dad’, I shook him, I grabbed him, I held him and I said, ‘No, you've got this and this job to do, we're going to do it, and follow me, dad. Follow me.’ And that was basically how it was then for the next few years. Yeah. My brothers as well, they were very much, ‘What do we do?’ I had no idea at the time, but I pretended like I did. Fake it till you make it. What we're doing this is how we're going to operate over the next few weeks. So it was being down on Wellington together, organising the family to be down there, all the logistics that go along with that, and your jobs and your, you know, partners and all the rest of it. And then a 24-hour watch over Mum, and being hypervigilant, explaining to the boys everything that I was learning medically, because I was like, studying forever, I was just going, going, heart out, trying to understand and get up to speed on something that I was completely not aware of prior to this, learning what an aneurysm does, what vasospasms are, what I've been looking for, what they— signs.
We were only in the neurological unit, we weren’t in the ICU, which, looking back when I arrived, what the hell. When she got down to Wellington, they get straight into surgery, they started draining her blood off the brain. She started to— start to have that pressure released. But then we had to decide the next, in the next couple of days, though it had stopped bleeding at that point, but it was about to go out in time again, it could go at any moment. How do we clamp it? What do we do? Would we cut into her brain and put a physical clamp over the area? And it was a mess of aneurysm. Like we're talking a 16 millimeter huge aneurysm. We went up through the femoral artery, and we weighed up the pros and cons and you make that call. She's got a 50% chance of dying this way, she's got a 30% chance of dying that way, pretty much. So we'll take the lesser evil, but she was going to have to have two operations and in that way you know. So that was gonna be really touch and go, really touch and go. I remember them wheeling her off for that operation. I think it was on day two, through the doors, and you just don't know if it's the last time you're going to see them alive, and the whole just trying to hold your shit together.
Cushla:I know that you're very good at compartmentalising parts of the— of something when it happens. What I remember you talking about when we were writing the book, was how you were able to put the jobs that needed to be done in that box. The research you were doing in this box, your family in that box, and probably, and I know this because we had phone calls and I was in touch with you at the time, your emotions and your shock and your trauma in this box. It was a matter of kind of keeping you know, all those juggling balls in the air at one time. But also, and importantly allowing you to have that emotional spot as well. And I know that you were very good at compartmentalising and giving yourself time to do that, but not letting it overtake you, letting you drop all the other balls at the time when you were dealing with the emotional side of it. I think that's really important because I know— so when Lisa and I first met, I was a bit of a Lisa Tamati fangirl, before we became friends, and I got to know you really well.
Lisa:And then realised, oh no.
Cushla:Yeah. I mean, we just saw you as Wonder Woman. You know, there's tough, tough, you know, athlete. Then I got to know you, as a human being, of course, a woman, there’s a vulnerable side to you. But what I think is really important at that time, an immediate trauma time, as you gave yourself time to release a bit of that stress and that trauma by leaning on your husband Haisley, by your phone calls to me. But also, like, I know that you went for some runs, went to get gym, threshed it out, you probably screamed at the ocean at one point. Do you know? That's also important, isn't it? It's not just—
Lisa:If you want to sustain— we knew this was going to be a long, long, long battle. While we hoped it was going to be a long battle, a short option was not a good one. This is something that I've learned doing ultra marathons: is to— in particular in the Libyan desert crossing, where you have to read the book for the whole story. But I did an expedition across the Libyan desert with three other guys, one of them being this abusive boyfriend that I was with at the time. There was a very extreme situation that we were in, we needed two liters of water a day, etcetera. And I'm having this big domestic fight with the boyfriend right in the middle of the Libyan desert.
Cushla:In the most extreme environment on the planet.
Lisa:In the most extreme environment, walking 45 kilometers a day with 35-kilo backpacks and only two litres of water a day in a military bad zone, not a good time to breakup with a boyfriend of five years. And in that moment, when he left me and disappeared over the sand dunes, that was a turning point for me, and I fell apart initially. And I was like, ‘Oh, God,’ started crying in the rails. I can't afford to lose any more tears here. I've got to pull my shit together, because I cannot let the energy dissipate that at the rate of I want to actually survive. It was getting down to that sort of level of you know, you're going to survive this or not. And so I learned in that moment, really a very hard lesson in compartmentalising things in your brain. So like, ‘I'm going to fall apart, but not right now. I'm going to put that off right now because I have to focus on this, and getting through the desert and surviving.’ That's been actually a really good lesson. It's never a pleasant one to actually have to instigate where you have to actually compartmentalise.
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Lisa:But in this in this situation where you're dealing with— you're having to study like really hard. And we have access now to the greatest minds on the world that come in, all those information about out there that you can study. So I was studying all the drugs that they had on, all the procedures they were doing, what is the normal plan, and what happens when you have an aneurysm, what are of the some of the dangers, or of the things that I should be looking out for, what are the signs in your body. You know, all of these types of things in the initial phase and then later on at it went into rehabilitation research and study. And so that was one aspect of it. And then we had a 24-hour clock system, much to the disgust of the people at the hospital because they didn't want us there 24 hours. They don't like that. There was no way I was leaving my mother when she could die at any minute alone. No way.
So I had massive battles with the hospital, for them to be able to allow us in. And then having to fight for that. So you're fighting on all these fronts, you're already fighting with— your mum's in deep, deep trouble, and then you're fighting against these systems. And they may have some good reasons for those systems. But there was no way I was leaving my mother alone when she could die any second. A family member had to be with her at all times. And I was very, very strict on that. We had some big blow-ups at the hospital. We got through really in the end. And we tried to be as unobtrusive as possible when we did what we were. And we picked up things that they missed, because she was on a neurological ward, they only come around a couple of hours into obviously, patients. But going back to the whole compartmentalising things. I know how to manage my body really well, and how to pace myself really well from doing ultra marathons and stuff, and expeditions. And so I knew that we were going to be in the for the long haul, I knew sleep deprivation was going to be a problem, I knew that the family dynamics were going to be a problem, that there was going to be fighting because of the stress there was it we were under, and we were all living in one motel unit. And that mum was in deep crap, we had my father to look after who was just, you know.
Cushla:And he was down with you in the initial stage.
Lisa:He was here, he was; and he's very much, was a homebody. He didn't like to be out of his garden and sheep. So he was very, very stressed on that front, and of course his wife in such dire straits. He was, but he— so we managed to, had him to manage home because he started having heart problems. And so I had to eventually actually send my dad back home and actually lied to my dad that, ‘She's okay now, we've got her, Dad. She's all good.’ Because I think that we're gonna lose him. I was making those sorts of decisions and just running the ship. Like you said, I know the importance of, for me, especially exercise and fresh air for my mental well-being, that if I was going to sustain it, I had to have at least half an hour to an hour every day out from this whole thing, where I just go and do a workout.
Again, all the fear, the cortisol, the adrenaline that's running through my body flat stuck and try to manage it, and making sure that she was looked after, and that time. You know, you feel guilty and everything for leaving the hospital all. But you had to do that after a few days. You know, just a couple of days, I didn't, but after that. It was— it’s setting all these things in place. And we need to do that in our daily lives. We need to set up systems and processes and understand our own bodies and how our bodies work so that we can manage the stress levels and we can manage the movement that we need, the sunshine, and needs for sleep and recovery and all those aspects. And of course, in a situation like that, sleep deprivation was a massive, and there's not much you can do about that, you have to function at that level for as long as you have to.
Cushla:And I think a lot of people that are in stressful situations, whether or not it be something like what happened with your mum, or even at work or just in daily life, big stressful moments. A lot of people put the self-care to the side. And they just think, ‘Well, I'm not that— I don't have time for that,’ or, ‘I shouldn't have time for that.’ That's when the guilt that kicks in, and yet, it probably is one of the most important things to prioritise in terms of your day and compartmentalising your day through to handle stressful situations because it allows you to have the focus and the energy that you need and get back into the the stressful—
Lisa:Into the fight you're in. Yeah, absolutely. You need to be able to have that energy put back in. It might only be 10 minutes out in the bloody— you know, like when we, here's another situation which we'll probably get onto later with my dad. In his situation, in the hospital for 16 days, fighting for his life. It was sometimes 10 minutes in the waiting room doing press ups. That was all I could get before I went back into the battle zone if you like.
Cushla:Just to release that.
Lisa:Just to manage the cortisol. Reach, I call it discharge and recharge, and then reset. Come back into the moment. But yeah, it was a heck of a lot of lessons to be learned and then leading in a crisis situation. My brothers were amazing. They were very supportive, and they were, followed everything that I asked them to do, basically. Because I'm the study-er of the family, I'm the one that is into research and science and studies. They trusted me to do that thing. And they were like, ‘Well, you tell us what to do, we'll do it.’ And that's really great. Because you've got your roles. That is, in having somebody lead the charge, so to speak, even though you don't know what you're doing, where you're going, and there’s certainly no rehabilitation over the next years, because this process took years, having that person that's got that responsibility, got that, ‘This is what we're doing. This is how we're doing it, I just need you guys to do this bit and the other thing.’ And my whole entire family were willing to do that. They were— my dad was just, jumping ahead in time, my dad was just amazing, how he stepped up to the mark. When he had a wife that had done everything for him pretty much.
Cushla:He was, back when she came back to New Plymouth, he was cooking, and—
Lisa:He was doing all the things.
Cushla:He was doing all the things, yeah.
Lisa:It was a shocker for him, but he stepped up to the mark to the best of his ability. He was the most wonderful, caring husband. He didn't give a— he didn't care that she— when she came back home for the first time, and we actually got her out of the hospital after three months. Now, I'm jumping ahead in time. But he didn't care that she had no function, basically. She was in a vegetative state who had a heartbeat. She was alive, and we were fighting. That was all he needed to know. He had his wife at home, she was alive, she's stabilised, we were fighting together, and we were on a mission. Every day he had his jobs to do and the things to do. He was just relentless in his love for her, stepping up.
Cushla:So going back to the moment where— so she's in Wellington, and you need to read the book to find out what went on in Wellington. The moment that she was transferred back to New Plymouth was a bittersweet moment, wasn't it? You were able to come home and be with Haisley and be back at home with the family and friends around that were helping. But you knew that the care that you would receive back in New Plymouth wasn't at the level that it would be in Wellington, basically just because Wellington is way more resourced. And fair enough, you can have a very small region. Taranaki here, you know, we're a little provincial spot in New Zealand. So we knew that we wouldn't get the care that you got in the big city. So talk us through how it was like to come home—
Lisa:It was terrifying.I was happy for all those reasons, but at the same time, and I was happy that she's apparently stabilised. But she was in ICU for the good part of the two of the three weeks that she was in Wellington when she was in and out of coma. Once she'd gotten out of the coma, then they had to get the stent out of her heart, and she kept dropping. What happens when you take the stent out is that pressure can start rising in the brain again, and three times as they tried to take the stent out, the pressure went up. On the third time, they said, ‘Well, if it doesn't work, this time, I'm going to have to operate and put in a permanent one.’ And the third time, it worked. But it only worked for the next 24 hours, and then they were like, ‘Right, she's not— her pressure’s not going up. She’s keeping consciousness, she's not falling back into the coma. She's good to go.’ And I had researched, I knew that that was not the case, that she couldn't have— that pressure could go up over the next 70 days at any point, and if that pressure went up, it would happen very quickly, and she wouldn't— she could die.
So I knew that even though they weren't telling me that, she could still die in the next 70 days. If that happened in Wellington and the pressure started to go up, they were— they might be able to recognise that, they might be to go in and do something. They wouldn't be able to in New Plymouth. I was hypervigilant on trying to understand how I could notice if something in her consciousness was going down, right. All I could do was to understand some of the symptomatic things that she did which might exhibit if her pressure is starting to go up, because you wouldn't be able to communicate it to me, you wouldn't be able to see it, you would slowly lose more and more of a brain till it was gone basically. So that was a huge fear bringing her home, and of course putting her in an airplane with a pressure change. Yeah, I didn't know what it would do. In fact, it was nothing, but there wasn't a problem, really. But you know it this time you just—
Cushla:You don't know.
Lisa:Yeah, so for the next 70 days, I'm like, hypervigilant. If I noticed something down on, I’ll be like, ‘I think she's doing this and doing that.’ Then they took her off the oxygen at the same time, and that was a big problem. They didn't see it as a problem that she was, ‘Her oxygen states are alright.’ What they were forgetting was that she was sleeping 18, 20 hours a day. So when she was asleep, she wasn't breathing properly, and I believe she had sleep apnea. So I said to them, ‘I want a sleep apnea assessment.’ They said, ‘No, she doesn't need that, why should she need that? Her oxygen stats are okay when she's awake, so why would she?’ I knew about sleep apnea. So I got a friend of ours, he's actually a sleep apnea consultant, Jez Morris. I said, ‘Come into the hospital illegally, would you do that?’ He said, ‘Yeah, I'll do that.’ Well outside of rules actually, so not illegally, but you know.
We sneaked into the hospital at nighttime, put on these machines onto her, did an assessment overnight, because it had to be an overnight thing. We got the results, and when it came back, severe sleep apnea. Now, this is absolutely key. Like her oxygen levels were down at 70% SPO2. she was Cheyne-Stokes breathing, which is not a good thing. Probably going to be on your way out in the next couple of months. Her oxygen was so low that she was knocking off any brain cells that she has, the infections that are in her body were just going apeshit. So bacteria was exploding, and they're already known. That was actually the one of the signs that I picked up because I had done a lot of racing at altitude, and I was seeing a lot of the signs in her that I had at altitude when I had altitude sickness and things like that.
That was at first wind, because I had to convince the bloody staff that we needed to have the CPAP machine on here, and they weren't trained in CPAP machine, so they didn't want to do that. I'm telling what she needs, she's got this and you know, him being a sleep physiologist was able to convince them that okay, this is a good thing for her now. He said he'd been banging his head against the brick wall for decades, trying to get for stroke patients an assessment that is part of the process. Because very often, this happens that that part of the brain is damaged in the stroke or the aneurysm, and even in things like concussions, that you can have a change in your breathing situation. And that part of the brain that monitors that is not working properly. So it should be staying apart and perfect, and that's what I believe, and that's what he believes.
So anyway, we got the CPAP machine. Initially started to have little bits of improvement, but we're already two months, three months, two and a half months or something into her time in the hospital and we're running out of time. But she's stable, nothing we can do with her, basically. She's pretty bad, and we've given paid lip service to some physio and some speech therapy and stuff, and now it's time to get you out of the system.
Cushla:And I think at that point, I think they, if you saw Isobel at that moment in the hospital, you would see an old woman who was probably on her way out. You didn't see the vibrant person that we saw before the aneurysm, that was so independent, and so highly functioning. For the hospital, I think they just saw an older woman—
Lisa:Another older woman.
Cushla:—another older woman, and a family that wasn't willing to accept the fact that they had an ageing mother. So there's that little bit of not understanding who she was before, and how abrupt this change was. We knew that if we could just get her back, even if it was a little bit back, then you could take her home and start working on rehab. Can you talk about how quickly they just wanted to move her into a home?
Lisa:Oh yeah. And this is what happens very often when you're over 65 is the answer is get them out of our budget into someone else's budget. That means putting them into a hospital-level care facility. If you've got anything, that's the normal route that you go, and they will try and convince you of that route, at least in our situation. I can't speak for everybody obviously. We came up against a brick wall of this, especially the social worker who shall remain nameless, who just was totally against us being able to have the caregiver that I wanted, the caregiver for in the morning for an hour, and one in the evening for an hour, which is part of, they do provide the service and so on. But it costs more money, and you stay in the budget. That's the key point.
We were fighting over these resources. What I want people to understand is you have to fight for the resources that you want for your loved one. And we have limited resources, it's a fact of life. If you want to get some of those resources, and you think your loved one is worthwhile, worth it, because they’ve spent their entire lives paying taxes, being good citizens and have a right to have some of this, then you better be prepared for a fight because that's what you're in for. And we did have the fight.
Cushla:And it was interesting that, because as a family, you were willing to bring her home and you're willing to do a lot of the care yourself. You didn't want to be taking up a resource in a care facility. You were prepared to do that yourselves, as a family, at home. So in a sense, there's a lot of money to be saved. Because I know how much you have given up and how much it costs the family to care for her at home. But that is what you wanted, and your family wanted was to just, to have her home. I remember in the book, you spoke about wanting Isobel to hear familiar sights, smells, sounds around her to aid her in her rehab. And that in having those, you felt that she was going to make more connections, neurological connections, because she was in her own home, with her own people around her, with her own sights and sounds and smells around her. Can you talk a little bit about how positive you felt that was?
Lisa:Yeah, that's a huge piece of the puzzle. I had a friend's mum who actually worked in stroke rehabilitation. She really encouraged me to do that and said how important this was, and it just made total sense to me. I knew that when you're in the care of any facility, no matter how good they are, they can never provide the love and the attention that you can. Because they've got other people and you're just another patient and in— they provide a magnificent service and so on when this is absolutely necessary. But in this case, we had the willingness and the ability to do this. They said to me, the social worker said to me, ‘There is no way in hell you are going to cope with her. She's 24/7 around the clock care, two people at all times, there is no way you're going to cope with her.’ I actually came and threw my books on his table one night, across the table at him. And I said, ‘Read these. This is who I am and my family are, and we are not giving up without a fight. We may go down fighting, but we're going to go down fighting, we're not going to go down and take the easy route out. It is not in our nature.’
It's a fundamental difference between a family that’s a fighting family and a family that isn't. It's very much influenced by the people in power in these situations, the medical professionals, the people that are associated with all of it. And you have no confidence to stand up against all these professionals, usually. They're the ones that have been to medical school, they're the ones that have been to whatever, social work. Whatever the case may be, and you have a tendency to think, ‘Well, they know better than me.’ But one thing they don't know is you. And they don't know how strong you are. They don't know the resources that you have. They don't know your mentality. And they don't know, really, they're all guessing as to what will actually happen based on their experiences. But that's what becomes partly a self-fulfilling prophecy. So when they say to you that there is no hope. No, that's their opinion that there's no hope.
I had time and time again, people telling me, ‘There is no hope, there is no hope, she's 74, her brain damage is so massive, it cannot be that she would ever.’ I was like, ‘We’ll see.’ I'm only ever going to listen to the ones that tell me I can do, not the ones that I tell me I can't do. They may be right. I'm not saying they're not right, but I'm gonna throw the book at this. I'm gonna do whatever it takes. And it's all about attitude and effort and grinding it out then I'll take that one any day, I'll take that option. I'm a fighter. I'm a worker. And my family is too, and we're not going to go down without a fight. I've seen lots of— I saw lots of other families going through the same process, because this thing's happening every day in every hospital around the world, right? It is very much, ‘Well, statistically, this person's not a good bet. Therefore we'll just go through the standard of care, we’ll be the— do the humane thing, we'll do all this— tick all the boxes or do it all right.’ But the anomaly cases, the cases like mum’s, why is nobody coming to say to me, why do I get— no, I'm out there telling everybody that story. That’s why I've written the book is to empower other people in these types of situations, even different ones. But why is nobody asking me, ‘Well, what did you do?’
Cushla:What did you do to get there?
Lisa:They’ve been— I’ll let you know, when they mum here today, talking and walking and going off for coffee and driving up to see her friends, you would have no idea that she ever had anything.
Cushla:No.
Lisa:She’s just completely normal again. But I was told that was an impossibility. How many people are told, you have a terminal illness, you are going to die of this thing? When you plant this sort of stuff, they're making educated guesses based on the statistics of the past whatever and their experiences, and I get that. We can't give people false hope, but we've also can't take away all hope.
Cushla:No. That's a really powerful message, I think. I was talking to a friend of mine who is battling with cancer at the moment. She has the most amazing mindset, her mindset. So she's— you know, she was told she had three months to live, that was, I think, six months ago. Her mindset— and she's just been through some chemo and the tumors have shrunk. Her mindset, basically, is that cancer is not welcome back. It's just not. I'm going off to live my life. If I die of it, well, okay, I die of it. But in the meantime, I'm living my life, and I'm— it's not welcome back. She is charging in life and sure, she has her rough days. I really love how you said, it's— there's a responsibility for them not to give false hope, but at the same time not to take away. similar situation with my father, he has myeloma, so cancer of the blood. I think at the time, the doctors said, ‘After this treatment, you have between five and fifteen.’ He immediately said, ‘I'll take the 15, thanks.’
Because it puts them at that, at the point that it would have taken them to 85, and he was quite happy with it, because at the time he was 69. I love that. And we're six years down now. And I think mindset is huge—
Lisa:Oh, yeah.
Cushla:—in the way that you approach things. Because, sure, we might, I might die by being run over by a bus today. But if you don't live life thinking that things are going to get better, that you have the power to do, to have control over your health and your well-being, the way that you deal with these traumas, if you don't have that mindset—
Lisa:You're definitely not going to—
Cushla:— you're definitely not, you're going to roll up in a corner. As my friend with cancer said when she went to hospital, she's like, ‘Oh, I'm surrounded by all these sick people.’ Which I loved. Because she didn't see herself in that.
Lisa:That’s one of the reasons I take mum to the gym every day.
Cushla:Exactly.
Lisa:I don't take her, I didn't take her, we did go to the physio program at the hospital. Don't get me started on that. But it was dreadful, it was shocking. The story’s in the book, if you want to read that one, that is a real battle. But they— I like her to be surrounded by athletes going for it. Because that rubs off on her. She's not a patient, she's an athlete. She's training for her Olympics. That is the attitude we take every single day. And I make no concessions that she is 79 years old, and, ‘Oh, isn't it time for her to relax?’ No, it isn’t time for her to relax. It's time for her to work harder. It's time to go harder and the older you get, the more effort you have to put into, if you want to stay alive. That is the key.
When you stop wanting to be alive, then yes, sit on the couch and do nothing. Because it's what that will lead to. If you still want to be alive and enjoy life, then you have to fight for it. This goes whether you’re bloody 10 years old, or 95 years old, or 105 years old. If you give into the easy way, if you go, ‘I don't feel like training today.’ I don't feel like training most days. But most days I train. Because it keeps me healthy, fit, and I'm being prevented. That's what I'm all about now is being in the prevention space, and then helping people who are in dire need navigate the waters of into connecting people to the right doctors in the right studies and the right information and the right books and all of that sort of jazz.
Cushla:When I was in the depths of my training for a marathon, I remember that exact conversation with a friend. She said, ‘I can't—’ You kno at the end of the day, I go for a run. And she's like, ‘You've just worked a full day.’ And I'm like, ‘Yeah, And I'm tired. But I'm going to go do it because you never regret it when you finish it.’ At the end of that 10k, you've never thought, ‘I really shouldn't have gone for that run.’ You don't. You come back thinking, ‘That was awesome.’ Sure you're tired, but you were tired before you went out for the run. So you actually end up more energised.
Lisa:You mean that will energise your cortisol in—
Cushla:My muscles might be tired, but you’re energised.
Lisa:And you’re getting stronger.
Cushla:Yeah, I think that's a really good message, that you don't regret it once you get out. It's always just those first, first few five minutes, or I always say the first 4k of any round was always more difficult than the rest.
Lisa:20 minutes is all it is.
Cushla:Yeah, it is. It’s always shit.
Lisa:So same for me. And if I warm up properly, then it's only shit. If I'm in a hurry, and I run out the door, and I don't, then it's gonna be more shit, warm up quickly.
Cushla:The more experience you have with training, or with whatever it is that you're doing for self-care, understanding that the first little bit is always tough. And the more that you experience it, the more you know to expect it, then you know that you're going to get the buzz at the end and you start looking forward to that.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, I had that conversation with my brother yesterday, because I've been telling him, he's very funny. He does a lot. He's amazing, boaties, he does weight training. He's a surfer, and he surfs sometimes six hours a day, but he doesn't do cardio. And, you know, I monitor his blood, and his health and his everything. ‘You've got to do some cardio, we've got some issues here, we need some cardio please.’ And he's like, ‘I hate cardio, I don’t want to do cardio.’ And then we’ll do five minutes, and he’s like, ‘I don't want any—’ and I said, ‘It's about pushing through that barrier. It's the same as if you tell me, why aren't you going surfing anymore? And I'm like, “Oh, because it's so hard, and I don't want to get hit by the waves and get smashed around.’ And he's like, ‘what are you talking about? It's awesome.”’ As long as you go through that barrier. Pushed enough, long enough to get through that, and I'm having to go through that.
It's always that initial adaptation phase, that time when you're not fitting, you're not good at the surfing or the running, or the whenever, when it's shit. Let's be honest. But if you hang in there long enough, if you stay with the tension long enough, then you'll start to make the adaptations, and then you start to actually like it, and then you start to enjoy it, and then it will become like, ‘Wow, I’m actually into this.’ And you still have the days we don't want to do it. And those are the days when you have to just take action, a small piece of action, and put my running shoes on or I'll go to the letterbox and I'll see, or I'll just do 20 squats and then 10 press ups, and then I'll just stop there. Then you do those, and then you're like, ‘Oh, now I've got a couple more minutes.’ And then, you know, the next minute you've run for an hour or something.
Cushla:And, really, this is such a good title for the book. Because it's not, it's not just about your mum's story. It's about the process of taking those small actions and how those small actions all build up and all add together to make a big amazing solution. What I probably— again, going back to the fangirl in me, this isn't a story about Lisa Wonder Woman who can do everything, because she can't. She has vulnerabilities, and she has rough days and she has days where friends need to pick her up.
Lisa:Definitely.
Cushla:But what you've done with your mum, and what you can learn by reading the book is how those small actions actually build up and accumulate. That is relentless. That's what it means to be relentless. It doesn't mean that we should all run a marathon or an ultra marathon, or that's the journey that most people should take. That's not what we are saying here, but it's about how, if you have some self-care and take those small steps, whatever that may look like for you at the time of your life, that you are living a life that is relentless.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Cushla:Be way more powerful, more fulfilling, and you’ll last longer.
Lisa:You’ll last longer! We all want that. And you last longer helps me, you know, rather than yeah, it's all about for me, it's about healthspan as well. You don't want to be living in a horrific state of affairs and barely alive, but still kicking, that's not living. It's— we want to push that degeneration out for as long as possible. And the exciting thing, what I'm excited about, because I study this type of stuff obsessively, is the stuff that's coming down the pipeline with regards to longevity and anti-ageing.
I'm like, ‘Mum, if I can keep you alive for another 10 years, the technology is gonna keep you alive for a lot longer.’ That the advances in medicine, the advances in science are going to mean that you can possibly live for a hell of a lot longer. If I can hold my, you know, 52 year old body together, now, by the time I get to my 60s here, I'm going to be things that are probably going to mean that we're going to live to, they're talking 150 and beyond. Whether I'll see that or not, but my children might, or our little ones, and this next generation might, and we may. Who knows? Because things are changing so rapidly. And there's one having each and the latest and greatest stuff. I love shiny objects. I’m doing the research and in staying across all that and maintaining so that I can actually get to hopefully enjoy the benefits of it and not have something major happen out of the blue. Because most of these things that come at us, the big four, the cancer, the cardiovascular diseases and strokes, and the diabetes, and the Alzheimer's, if you take just those, they are predictable a long way out.
If I had known more about things then mum’s aneurysm was bloody written on the couch. Her dad died at 52. Now I've done our genetics and we have, I have a very poor lining of our blood vessels. They're like glycocalyx is very, very poor quality, which means we're more prone to strokes and aneurysms and stuff. So now I know that, okay, so now I can do something preventative about it. I didn't know that when mum went down, she was always struggling with her weight and always, always having problems with that. Now we've cracked that code. She's tiny now, she's very slowly, and she’s lost 35 kilos, and we've cracked the code on it. But hey, it's taken me bloody years to work that out with for here and now. But we have that science now. We have that epigenetics and all the genetic tests, and we have all that available to us, you know? And yes, it all costs, and people go, ‘I couldn't afford this.’
Cushla:Can you afford not to?
Lisa:Yes, can you afford not to? Yes, this stuff costs money, all this stuff costs money. To keep mum going, costs me over a couple of grand a month. But I would— instead of having a fancy car—
Cushla:Yeah?
Lisa:— I got a fancy mum.
Cushla:Love it.
Lisa:You know, it’s just, if you don't have anything within your—
Cushla:Yeah.
Lisa:—you can do the stuff that makes, you can get for free, which is exercise, which is not eating bad shit, and eating right and things. But if you have got a little bit of resources, where are you putting it? Are you doing it, for me superfluous things like, I don't go and have facials and massages. Well, massages will be actually healthy, so I probably shouldn't lump that in with it. But, you know.
Cushla:You don’t have fancy shoes.
Lisa:No, I don't have fancy clothes. I wear the same thing all the time. You know, but I spend it on stuff that might keep us alive longer.
Cushla:When I was going through some rough health over a year ago, I talked with Lisa and we booked in a whole raft of tests. I think it was probably just over $1,000 to get a really good picture of where things are. Sure that's a lot of money. But the fact was, my health was bad enough that I wasn't coping. I wasn't getting more excited for work. So you know, for me to be able to earn an income, for me to be able to be a functioning adult, you know, that can walk me through the world, I had to invest in it. I think that sometimes we can feel guilty of investing in those kinds of things, especially if you're a mum, or if you have other commitments. But the fact is that if you need to be around for your kids, or in my case for my class, I'm a teacher. Yeah, I need to be there, 100%. I need to be at 100%. And so they're there.
Lisa:Yeah, so it's chicken and egg scenario. You lose your job if you’re not healthy.
Cushla:Exactly.
Lisa:If you lose your job, then you're not going to be able to stay healthy. So it's a chicken and egg scenario, and I'd rather invest in those things and prioritise those things.
Cushla:Before they become something major.
Lisa:And then, you can't see everything coming. I've been— I mean, you know, the journey that I've been on with my dad, and he unfortunately passed away in July last year, after one hell of a battle. Now, I didn't see that one coming. He was, I had him, but he— Dad did one thing that I could never stop him doing, and that was smoking. And that's what basically got him in the end. That's addiction, and I was, I'm just sad about that. But you can't— and I spend a lot of time studying. I study hours every day so that I'm not caught short. And since losing Dad, even moreso. But I realised I can't know everything, and they will be curveballs that come at me anyway. But I can be as prepared as I can be, and then I can react to the situations the best I can, you know. And I can hit, I at least know where to go to get help. I know where to go if I have something. If I have something tomorrow, I'll probably find out who the heck to talk to very quickly.
Cushla:Exactly.
Lisa:To deal with it. And that's a good resource to have.
Cushla:So in thatRelentless, in our book, at the back is a bunch of resources. We've listed them out. So— and Lisa said something really funny to me the other day, she got some feedback from a bloke that read the book. He said, ‘I normally would have never read a book with the two chicks on the cover.’ It was hilarious. But, and then he said, ‘But it was a rocking good book.’ He didn't— he said it was a really good book. He read it through and also provided him so much information in here. And I thought it was interesting because we— the process, of course of getting the book published and the cover, and everything was quite a major wasn't it?
Lisa:And we obviously made a mistake.
Cushla:Made, and in some things fixed. But I thought it was worth pointing out that it's not just a story about your mum, but it is a bunch of lessons and resources that you can apply to in any situation that involves either health or stress. Big—
Lisa:Big mindset.
Cushla:Big moments that require that positive mindset and real strategies in there about what it takes to survive trauma and in stressful situations that can apply to health or work or relationships, or all sorts. So I just thought, you know, I kind of do that little promotional push. When we need to do book launches, you’re all booked to the map, hadn’t we? We would join them. And then—
Lisa:The day after.
Cushla:The day after. We managed to, week one in our hometown, which was also a book launch, which was fantastic. But unfortunately, we couldn't do the big push. So as your co-author, because I know Lisa touts this book any chance she can, but as the co-author of it. I'd like to recommend that everyone does get a copy. Read the heck of it, and really gains from, really can get some benefit from reading the resources and the steps and the strategies that are in there. Yeah.
Lisa:Yeah. Thanks, Cush. Yeah, it's not a book just for ladies, it's not a book just for runners. It's not a book just for people with brain injuries. It's for all of the above class. It is the people who are taking on massive challenges and who are up against it. It's for people who want to understand what it takes to succeed, want to understand what it takes to take on massive challenges and have a chance at actually coming out the other end. It is a coaching book, basically. It is written in a story form, but there is a lot of learnings in there. And there's also a lot about a lot of the therapies and the doctors and the podcasts and the books and the resources that I used in order to rehabilitate my mum.
And this is the whole point of the podcast now that we've been doing Pushing the Limits for five and a half years. I actually started it before mum had her aneurysm, but it became one of the greatest resources for me personally, because I got to get the world's greatest scientists and doctors and their latest research, and to share that with everybody. And whether it was around health and fitness and running or mindset, or high performance or longevity or anti ageing or any of those things, it was all relevant. For me, it was partly a selfish endeavor, because it did help me in that whole process. We're very passionate about the show, and we'd love that anybody who isn't already subscribed to Pushing the Limits, or as a podcast, to make sure that you head on over to iTunes or wherever you listen, and subscribe to the show, because we really get world-leading experts up on here, every single week. It's pretty, pretty fantastic. And a great resource.
Of course, it'd be marvelous today, as always. And we're working on another book. We haven’t started working. We haven't started yet. We've discussed next year. Yeah, yeah. So she's a very brave woman, because back with me on this book.
Cushla:Look, the journey has been an absolute privilege to be a part of this book, and also to be a part of your life. It's interesting, I've never written a book before. So I just like to put that out there, that sometimes you have to do brave and scary things, just to see what you're capable of. What we really hope with this is that people get a lot out of it. It's a great read, there's some comedy in there. As well good moments, as well as the hard stuff. And I think that's what I've learned is, being part of this journey is, you know, life's about putting yourself out there, do the things that are scary, that you've always potentially had in the back of your mind you wanted to do.
Lisa:Absolutely. And you know, you with the Masters in English, that was a good place to start.
Cushla:I’m afraid that—
Lisa:It's fabulous and has now made the emphasis for you to write your own novel, which is fantastic. So that's what happens when you step outside your comfort zone. You're very much good at pushing, push further outside your comfort zone.
Cushla:Yeah.
Lisa:Yeah, yeah. Lots of beaches along the way. Yeah, I haven't told you yet. So it's—
Cushla:Not yet.
Lisa:I am being good. Cushla, thank you so much for your time today in being the interviewer, in being an author on this marvelous book, and we hope it's going to empower and help lots and lots of people along the way.
Cushla:Definitely.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
28 Jul 2022
The Wellness Chiropractic Approach with Dr Dean Carter
00:58:18
In this episode Lisa speaks to chiropractic doctor Dr Dean Carter about chiropractic treatments and his holistic approach to health and wellness and why chiropractic is just one of a number of pillars that underpin a healthy human.
Here are three reasons to listen in:
1. Understand what sublaxations are
2. Understand how the spine and spinal health and nervous system effect the body
3. The pillars that should make up and round out your chiropractic care and why chiropractors do more than just "crack backs"
"The doctor of the future will give no medicine but will interest his or her patients in the care of the human frame, in proper diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas A Edison
Dr Dean's approach to health and life philosophy is holistic, vitalistic and natural. His unique view of health is the underpinning foundation of Living Chiropractic & Wellness. Dr Dean believes in taking the time to get to the core issue of health problems. He sets out to understand the contributing factors of his patients health concerns, rather than simply dealing with their symptoms. The impact of losing many family members to lifestyle diseases such as heart disease, diabetes and cancer was the main influence for him to study health sciences, lifestyle and wellness care as a way of life and vocation.
Dr Dean has twenty years of experience in wellness care and 15 years in chiropractic.
Practicing as a Chiropractor in Pukekohe for the last 15 years, Dr Dean understands the importance of his practice members keeping active. He empowers them to exercise, maintain postural awareness, and to stretch every day.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
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Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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How to Manage Stress Based on Your Unique Body Type with Dr Cam McDonald
01:03:46
Have you ever tried to copy a role model before? Chances are, results didn't align with your goals. Our bodies are different on so many levels and in so many different ways. The path to optimising your body and health varies from person to person. Our health type is crucial when it comes to learning how to manage stress and building our immunity!
In this episode, Dr Cam McDonald joins us to talk about how different health types deal with the different phases of the stress model. He notes that certain classes need to focus on different stages. When building immunity, people also need to listen to their bodies' needs.
If you want to know more about how to manage stress and build immunity based on your body type, then this episode is for you.
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Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
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If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
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My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Understand the different phases of the stress model and how to manage stress optimally based on your body type.
Learn the ways your body type responds to stress, fasting and immunity.
Discover the key pillars of building a robust immune system.
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Episode Highlights
[04:39] Understand How Stress Works
Stress is anything that takes our body away from homeostasis.
The stress cycle includes recovery so your body can learn from the experience. However, prolonged exposure to stress can cause lasting damage.
Many things can be considered stress. Exercise, work, undersleeping, and relationships are examples.
Resilience requires exposure to stress. Learning how to manage stress is essential to building strength.
[09:17] The Alarm and Coping Phases
The first two stages of the stress model are the alarm phase and the coping phase.
The Alarm Phase is when we become neurally alert and anxious to pick up helpful information.
The Coping Phase is when our body adjusts to cope with the situation. This stage can mean higher blood pressure and blood sugar levels to sustain our energy.
During the Coping Phase, your body focuses on giving you fuel instead of fighting infections. Hence, immunity is usually lower during this phase.
Listen to the full podcast for an in-depth explanation of the two initial stages of stress.
[16:09] The Recovery Phase Helps Make Us Stronger
The third phase of the stress model is the Recovery or Exhaustion Phase.
This phase is a crucial part of stress. Our bodies need time to grow and learn from previous strains.
Once in this phase, your body can now tackle all the viral infections. It can replenish your nervous system.
This phase is why you feel tired after a long day's work. It's your body's way of telling you to relax and recover.
[19:03] Resilience and How to Manage Stress Optimally
Suppose you're always in the coping phase of higher blood pressure and blood sugar levels. This exposure can lead to the body shutting down completely.
If you recover correctly, you can take on stress again.
Resilience is about the ability to take the time to recover and learn lessons. It's not about how much you can take.
Having a better mindset, awareness, and mindfulness can help improve your immune system.
[21:16] Different Body Types Respond Differently
People have different responses to stress. Naturally, the way we manage stress is also different.
People are different on a physical, mental, and even behavioural level.
How we develop in the womb determines which organ and hormone are dominant.
For example, lean individuals tend to spend more time in phase one of stress. Their ability to handle stress is generally lower.
Also, the temperature is essential for this body type. Staying warm is difficult, so cold areas can raise their stress levels.
[30:05] How Guardians or Connectors Respond to Stress
Guardians or Connectors tend to have more muscle mass prolactin levels. Their instinct is to protect other people.
When these people are stressed, they conserve energy and store as much as possible.
Guardians or Connectors usually get stressed from social disconnection.
When they do morning high-intensity workouts, they can put on more weight.
People who have a heavier build tend to put on weight when stressed. Hear Dr Cam's explanation on how to manage stress for this body type in the full episode!
[37:28] How Activators Respond to Stress
In contrast, Activators have naturally high adrenaline levels. They constantly look for uncertainty, variety, and competition.
For this body type, being limited and trapped stresses them. Activators need to expel and use energy continually.
Recovery is then crucial for this body type. They must keep looking for high adrenaline activities.
[45:06] How Fasting Affects Your Body
People should fast depending on the body type.
For leaner individuals, it's ideal to have shorter fasting periods. Guardians can handle more extended fasting periods.
Activators will need to reduce their activities if they want to fast. They can instead take on more calming exercises instead of high-intensity ones.
[48:30] Building Blocks of Immunity
There are three main pillars to building a robust immune system. These are sleep, environment, and movement.
In general, all body types need 7 to 9 hours of sleep to recover.
Next, personalise your environment according to your body type so you can heal better.
All body types need movement and exercise. Learning how to manage stress optimally involves knowing when and how to exercise.
Listen to the full episode to hear some ways activity can be different based on your body type.
[57:16] Listen to Your Body to Learn How to Manage Stress
Your body is always looking out for your best interests.
Listen to your body and acknowledge when it's time to rest and recover.
When you start taking care of your body, your immunity will naturally improve.
7 Powerful Quotes
‘And so if you prolong that, or put the wrong kind of stress on somebody, then it creates damage. But then the really cool thing about the stress cycle is that if you recover, then that your body learns.’
‘What happens in your resistance phase? It essentially assumes that you are being chased by something very urgently. You need to get away from like a saber-toothed tiger essentially.’
‘And one of the biggest problems just to expand this to one final timeline is that you do this for 10 years. Yeah. And your body says I need you to stop completely. And that's a heart attack.’
‘So what's so fascinating about how we develop and how we grow as individuals from the womb, and we've discussed this on previous podcasts as well, is that we have certain stresses that will be more stressful for us than for other people.’
‘And so what we know is the type of things that stress this person is cold. Firstly, if they're very, very cold, their body doesn't have the muscle or the fat tissue to stay warm. And that really drains their energy levels.’
‘So this individual, they have more hormones like prolactin, and they are more likely to be insulin resistant. They have a slightly slower thyroid as well.’
‘So those leaner, more delicate bodies will go within themselves, they'll try and be alone, so that they can create certainty, because certainty in their future creates safety for them and warmth as well.’
About Dr Cam
Dr Cam McDonaldhas spent the last decade furthering his knowledge and skills to promote accessible health. He's a dietitian and exercise physiologist. He has a long-standing personal passion for health, genetics, and environmental influences. His goal is to support all people to live up to their full physical potential.
Cam has a firm focus on people becoming more aware of themselves. He wants them to know their natural strengths and optimal behaviours for the best health. He is an informed speaker who has a passion for fitness and the inspiration to do something about it.
Want to know more about Dr Cam's work? Check out hiswebsiteor follow him onInstagramandLinkedin. You can also reach him through email (drcam@yourgeneius.com) or phone (0411380566).
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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you bylisatamati.com.
Lisa Tamati:Welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today I have another super interview with Dr Cam McDonald, who you may recognise from previous episodes that we've done. Now, Cam McDonald is the ph360 CEO in Australia. And he's one of the world's leading experts in personalised health and the use of genetics and epigenetics. He really understands when it comes to individuals being able to understand the strengths of the unique biology, and how it gives them an exact pathway to better health in a way that makes it easy for them. He's a leader and educator, a scientist, motivator, and he is a crusader on a mission is what Dr Cam is. And he is a wonderful guy.
Now today we are going to be talking about the stress response, what happens in the body when you are under stress. We're also going to be talking about how that pertains to your specific health type or your body type with your specific genetics, and how different people react in different ways to stressors, and how genetics actually makes a 50% contribution to this whole thing. We're also going to be looking at resilience and stress management and how to build a better, more resilient, stronger you. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr Cam McDonald.
If after listening to this episode, you're keen to do the epigenetics program, which were steeped in and have been using for a number of years now with our athletes and with corporates and with individuals wanting high-performance people dealing with very difficult health journeys, then we'd love you to check out what we do here on over tolisatamati.comand push the button ‘Work With Us’ and you'll see ourPeak Epigenetics programhere, you can either jump on a live webinar with us, we have one every couple of weeks, or just reach out to us or just sign up for the program, it will be life changing for you. It will help you optimise every aspect of your life: not only your your food, and your exercise, which everybody wants to know about and what's right for you, but also everything to do with your mood, behaviour, the brain function, what social environments you'll do well and what physical environments you do well, and we touch on some of these topics in today's episode. So head on over to lisatamati.com, under the ‘Work With Us’ button, you'll see that there.
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And lastly, before I head over to Dr Cam, please check out my new longevity and anti-ageing supplement. I've co-founded a company here that is doing NMN supplements with Dr Elena Seranova, a molecular biologist. And this is a, NMN is a very powerful compound that some vitamin D, vitamin B3 sorry, derivative that helps upregulate the sirtuin genes and improve longevity and autophagy and lots of great things in the shell. So if you want to know a little bit more about the science behind the NMN and why you should have it, then please check out our website atwww.nmnbio.nzThat's N-M-N bio.nz.
Right, over to the show with Dr Cam McDonald.
Hi, everybody and welcome to Pushing the Limits. Super excited to have you with me here again today. I have a repeat offender on the show Dr Cam McDonald, who's coming on for how many times is this? Number three, I think, Dr Cam?
Dr Cam McDonald:I think yeah, it is number three. Yeah, we've done a combo, we've done a solo and now another solo.
Lisa:Yeah. Today we're going to be talking about resilience, stress and immunity, and how to personalise your protocols and your lifestyle interventions for your particular genetic type to increase your resilience and immunity. So Dr Cam, where should we start with this big topic? It's a big, it's something that everyone's talking about at the moment as immunity and lowering stress levels.B ecause when we're stressed when we got lots of stress hormones running through us all the time, which I think you and I probably both do, to a certain degree with our jobs and our lifestyle and our genetics. How do we manage that on a day to day basis? And how do we personalise that and understand that in regards to our own sort of body make-up and health types?
Dr Cam:That's a great opening question, Lisa, that is as broad as your life. So probably, I reckon the best way that we would start with this is, is just by defining these things like stress and resilience and even immunity. So I guess stress can be defined as anything that takes our body away from homeostasis. So we're calm, we're cool, we're collected, we're lying in bed. Waking up and putting your feet on the floor actually creates a stress on our vascular system. Our blood has to start moving harder, because it's now moving against gravity, that creates a little bit of a stress that's taken us away from that resting state. And so if you prolong that, or put the wrong kind of stress on somebody, then it creates damage. But then the really cool thing about the stress cycle is that if you recover, then that, your body learns. So it goes, alright, I've got damaged here. And I'm now going to learn about that, and in my recovery, I'm going to get stronger so that that same stress, when I get exposed to it again, doesn't affect me as much.
And so I guess some examples of stress might be, exercise is a stress. We don't think about it that way, we think what's positive exercise is positive. Yeah, but exercise is actually a stress. It makes us feel, it actually puts a demand on our body. And you will know, running your ultramarathons, that your body is not in its best health at the 90 kilometre mark. It is at its best, they'll probably before the race starts, and then your body is exposed to a prolonged period of stress. But then you do that your body then rests and recovers and you get stronger so that you can get up and do it again.
But then there's other stresses, you know, like our workload, and being underslept, and eating the wrong food, and being in relationships, that great stress. All of these things put a demand on our body and our mind. And this tells the body that there's some sort of emergency. And so in that emergency, we have to take action, we have to cope, which we can expand on. And then we have, then we get very tired and we get exhausted. And then that's when we need to recover. So for me, a stress is really anything that takes us away from that rested state.
Lisa:Yep.
Dr Cam:If it's short, and the right kind of thing, and then we recover, we get stronger. If it's prolonged, and there's no recovery, then it can help us deteriorate and lead to very poor health and lowers our immune system as well. And then when it comes to resilience, resilience is about being exposed to stress, but being able to handle it.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dr Cam:And so, when, it's different to recovery in that you're getting stronger resilience, as in you are in the stress. And generally if you have, I like to think of resilience as having resilience juice. You've got a certain amount based on your capacity to tolerate stress. And so you know, the training that you've put in, the mindset that you have, gives you more juice so than in any given stress, you can tolerate a better and push forward. And I'd have to say that resilience, or stress is essential. And so we have to have stress to grow. Therefore, we must have resilience to be able to tolerate that stress so that we can continue growing. If we run out of resilience, we don't want to expose ourselves to stress ever. But this doesn't allow us to grow then. So this is where I see those two things into playing. And then the immune system is one of those things that you can have an underactive immune system that isn't mounting a good response. Or you can have an overactive immune system, which has actually been attacking your own body, autoimmune conditions. And so we're really looking when we're talking about immune health, we're talking about that sweet spot right in the middle where we're aggressively fighting things from the outside, but protecting our own tissues and organs at the same time. So I reckon that's a place to start. We can go from there.
Lisa:Yeah, that's, he just done, he did that so well. So I think so stress, resilience and immunity are all interlinked. And we need a certain amount of stress. And we talk about hormetic stresses, and how good they are for our bodies because they cause a cascade of events. When I hop into the sauna, it's hot and I'm sweating, and that's causing a response in the body. I don't want to be in there for three hours, though, because that's going to kill me, probably. But a small, short, sharp shock can often be helpful in creating a hormetic stress. So what we're trying to do is avoid the chronic stressors, the sort of stuff, excuse me, that builds up over time and the stuff that's going to be negative for our mindset, and our ability to cope.
So when we have our stress response, Dr Cam, what actually happens in the body? So—I don't know—someone cuts you off in traffic, or you get a nasty email from your boss or something like that, or you have a fight with your spouse or, what's actually going on on a physiological level?
Dr Cam:Yeah, awesome. So there's a really beautiful model that talks about the stages of stress and design by Hans Selye. And this has stood the test of time, and it's definitely the way that we need to understand stress. So we have our—it's a four-stage model, with the first stage being homeostasis, when you just chill out, like you're sitting in the car, there's no real stress, you're just driving along. What happens when you get cut off, or the boss yells at you, or says', I want to see you in’... probably the boss saying, ‘I want to see you in my office in 10 minutes in an hour, even better’.
And so what happens in that first stage of stress is you become neurally alert. Alarm stage, it's called. Essentially, all of your senses will become more alert to say, ‘What's going on here? And what kind of information do I need to pick up from the environment to make sure that I'm going to be okay'? So you go to alarm phase, it's like, ‘What's going on? what's happening’? And so that's where we get anxious, which is worrying about the future, it's like what could possibly be coming in our future. And so that alarm stage, and another way to think about it is you're standing on the start of a 800-metre race. So you've got that, that nervous energy, the gun hasn't gone off yet, all in your brain. Yeah. So that's alarm stage one.
Alarms, sorry, and then we go into resistance stage two. Resistance stage is where we are now in the fight. We're now in the boss's office, defending ourselves. We are 500 metres through the race, where our body, it's now no longer a matter of ‘I've got to be alert to the environment', but rather, ‘I've now got to get in and fight. And I've got to cope'. And so this coping thing is something that we're doing all of the time. So, and in the, the great example, obviously, would be yourself in a long-distance run. Your body has to cope with all of the stress of continuing, when your body wants to stop. And genuinely it says, ‘I want to stop. This stress is not fun, I want to stop, please'.
The same thing goes for your—you've had a bad night's sleep for five nights in a row. And now you've got a front up at work. And you have to cope with the tiredness. And so that coping is resistance stage two. What your body does to cope in stage one, our nervous system becomes aware in stage two, our blood pressure goes up, our blood sugar levels go up. Now, blood fats go up. Everything that's going to support energy release in the body, and making sure that we can maintain a very high level of energy, they are going to be the systems that go up. And so you know, because when you're 500 minutes to a ratio of blood pressure, if it drops, you won't have enough blood to pump around your body.
So in order to cope, it has to keep your blood pressure up. If you're tired and underslept your body in order to cope with the workload, it needs to have a blood pressure that's going to allow you to stay awake, you need to have blood sugars that give you fuel, you need to have blood fats that give you fuel.
And so in stress, your body breaks down muscle.
Lisa:Can’t avoid.
Dr Cam:And turns that into carbohydrates for your brain, and it breaks down fat tissue and turns it into fats for your body, your blood pressure goes up. And so now we have this. Essentially, if you have a 500-metre race, it would look, I haven't made the race, it would look like you have sort of diabetes and high blood pressure if you want to take a snapshot of that race.
Lisa:And I'm done that in the middle of things. And it’s like, the individual training sessions and I took, I remember taking my blood sugar. I've been fasting for 18 hours, did an interval training session, took my blood sugar and it was at 9.5 and I had a heart attack. Like, what the hell!
Dr Cam:Exactly. Hopefully you didn't have a heart attack.
Lisa:No, I don’t.
Dr Cam:But you know, looking like a profile, your profile would have. So this is what's so important is that exercise, that under sleep, it makes your body cope. And blood pressure isn't bad, blood pressure is keeping you awake. High blood sugars aren't bad. They are providing fuel for your brain. Blood fats are bad, high triglycerides aren't bad, they are keeping your body fuelled. And so we see these things as bad things but in fact, they are our coping mechanisms. Without them we wouldn't be able to get through the day.
Lisa:Right, in the short term.
Dr Cam:in the short term. And this is the problem is that you'll then persist with this. But before we get there, what happens in your resistance phase? It essentially assumes that you are being chased by something very urgently you need to get away from, like a sabre-toothed tiger, essentially. Yeah, and so on. Your immune system goes, ‘Well, I don't have the energy to tackle these bacteria, to mess with this virus. I just need to make sure that I can supply as much fuel down to my bones and my muscles as I can so that we can get out of here. And then I'll worry about my bacterial infections later’.
And so while we're in this coping phase, your immune system gets suppressed, it goes down. And this is why, in some autoimmune conditions, they actually use very strong immune suppressants and reduce the immune system because the immune system, in stress, depresses. And so in coping phase, if it's really short happy days, because your body can tolerate that, that's what it's designed for. But then it's been 12 weeks of low sleep, lots of coffee, which increases your alarm stage, pushes your blood pressure up, you're working really hard so you’ve got that mental stress as well. And then, over a prolonged period of time, your body hasn't had a chance to recover. And so then you then go on holidays.
Lisa:And what happens? Yeah, you get sick.
Dr Cam:You get sick! And you think that this is your body being even more sick, we think I'm sick. So therefore my body is even worse than it was at work. But what's happened is that you've just delayed your immune system to turn on, even though your body was just as sick, probably more sick. What happens now in stage three is exhaustion phase or recovery phase.
Lisa:Right.
Dr Cam:And so your body, in order to gain growth, like get stronger from a workout, you know, you take a muscle to temporary fatigue when you're lifting weights. And what happens? Your muscle gets exhausted, can't lift another weight, it then rests for 48 hours, and it comes back stronger. So this exhaustion phase is actually really important. But what happens when you get sick, your body, your brain, it's like, as you turn off work, your brain finally dials down that internal stress, that reason to cope. And so now you don't have to cope anymore. And so all of your recovery mechanisms now increase.
And one of the best ways for your body to recuperate as quickly as possible is to lie flat on your back for a week. So I'm gonna make you incredibly sick. I'm going to tackle all these bacterial, these viral infections. I'm going to recover your body; I'm going to try and replenish your nervous system. And I'm going to do that as quickly as possible. And so I'm going to drive a lot of symptoms that help our bodies slow down, so that you do take some rest. Because our body is speaking to us!
Lisa: ‘I’m gonna knock the crap out of you!’
Dr Cam:Saying, ‘Hey, you've been going too fast for too long, you need to rest and recover. I'm going to make that happen now, I'm going to make it hard for you to get up'. Your body is actually on your side. And we see this even at a day to day level where if you get tired throughout the day, so you wake up in the morning, you've got some really important stuff on, you have some coffee that puts you even more alert and coping your system. You’re then pushing hard all day long. You're on your best behaviour at work. Yeah, you then get home and your brain switches off. Yep. And you're not yet sick. But your brain is so exhausted that it switches off, at least the prefrontal cortex does.
Lisa:Yeah, and then you become a horrible person.
Dr Cam:Your control, you become this person who hates their family, all of us don't understand why.
Lisa:Irritable, shifting. Hey, guys last night–
Dr Cam:Exactly. We all do, I think I've stepped out of a few of those myself. And so we have this short-term experience of stress, and then recovery, which is exercise. Short-term stress, recover, get stronger. Short term stress of day to day, you know, but it's probably a bit longer than what our body would like. We get stressed, we have to recover, we have to recover with rest. And if we don't get that rest, then it'll express itself through shortness, we won't have that tolerance that we had at work. Because we don't have that as much cope on, we're exhausted. Yes.
Lisa:Wow, that's just really, that’s so pertinent to what I did last night. Got very shitty, had to go for a very long walk. And because I had a hard, stressful day, and this exactly what happened, you know. I had a bit of a meltdown, and then came home and got my shit together. But I know I should do, I know I should go for a walk.
Dr Cam:Exactly, exactly. And one of the biggest problems just to expand this to one final timeline is that you do this for 10 years.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dr Cam:And your body says I need you to stop completely. And that's a heart attack. You know, it's like you've been coping for long enough, your blood pressure has been high enough for long enough, your cholesterol has been high enough for long enough, so much that it has created damage because there's been no recovery. So now I'm going to stop you for six months.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dr Cam:Because it's been so long since we stopped last time. And so the key part of this stress piece is you can expect any stress, but it's about the recovery that is most important. If you recover appropriately, you get stronger, and then you repeat that stress again. And this is where the resilience comes in is because if you see stress as a positive, even stress at work, and you have like a really tough day at work, you go, ‘Whoa! I've learned how my body responds in stress. I'm gonna learn, or I now know how to deal with that situation better’. That resilience mindset right there, that allows you to actually lean into those lessons, recover, and actually get a lesson for next time as well.
But if you've got a mindset that this stress is killing me, then you don't fully recover, and your mind will actually create more stress on top the next time you experience the same thing as well. And so this is where that resilience base in that mindset is not just physical, is how much can you tolerate? How much can you cope physically before your body cops in? But also, how much—how you’re shaping your thoughts around this stressful experience as well. So and just having a better mindset and more presence and more awareness and more mindfulness, essentially, will actually improve your immune system, because you don't go into the same level of stress, because you've got a mindset that is able to… Yeah,exactly.
Lisa:You can see things coming sort of thing and in trying to try to hit it off in the past sort of thing before that, because we you know, we all, I think for years and years, I hear people say, ‘Oh, stress, you know, stress is bad for you, or you're going to have a heart attack'. If you keep going at that rate, that type of talk that you hear, but you don't understand, really, the mechanisms that are at play in this game, and what's actually happening. And the situation with our lives at, presently, you know, what we've got, you know, COVID in the world, which has caused, as a society, a huge amount of stress, and uncertainty and all these sorts of things. So now is a particularly important time to work on these tools and to be able to, you know, build our resilience.
And one of the things I wanted to mention there was that, if you're, as you know, hard charging type A personalities, got a lot of stress hormones anyway. You have, you know, when I was younger, this especially was like, just toughen up, just go harder and just deal with it. And if you're tired, work bloody harder instead of going the opposite. And that works for a certain amount of time, until it doesn't, and then you burn out. And, you know, so let's look at now, how different health types you know, because Dr Cam, as everyone knows, hopefully you listened to the podcast is the CEO of ph360. This is a genetic program that we look at the epigenetics and how your environment is affecting your life and your health. So let's look at how do, and why do, different people react differently to the same stressor? You know, why can somebody have something horrible happen to them, and get up the next day and carry on, and the other person's down for the count? You know, what were the realisation coming in?
Dr Cam:Yeah so, what's so fascinating about how we develop and how we grow as individuals from the womb, and we've discussed this on previous podcasts as well, is that we have certain stressors that will be more stressful for us than for other people. For example, you look at a sumo wrestler, right? A sumo wrestler, if they get pushed by a 60-kilogramme, 15-year-old boy, they're gonna go, ‘Oh. That's not a stress at all. In fact, it tickles a little bit'. Versus then you look at him that 15 year old boy push an infant, that's very, very different to the experience of stress. And so obviously, that's a quite an extreme example, but I wanted to make the point or even if another 60 kilos, 15 year old person, they push them, it creates a different type of stress. So physically, we're different. Mentally, we are also different as well. And behaviourally, we genetics determine over 50% of our personality, or at least 50% of our personality. And so how we respond to different things is built into our biology as well, and into our genetics.
And so what we see is that different people will actually appear in these phases of stress differently as well. And so a person like us, so we've got, we've got Crusaders on the census in the pH360 model. Essentially, the wedges are a quick background. So how we develop in the womb determines which organs and hormones are going to be dominant in our body. Those then contribute to how our body shape and size actually develop.
Lisa:Yep.
Dr Cam:So we have some individuals that develop from the layer of the embryo that is more predominant in the nervous system, so the nervous system gets more fuel, the musculoskeletal system and the digestive organs, they get less fuel. And so we end up with a body that has less muscle, less fat, less bone, generally a very fine delicate structure, and hormones that make them—and our nervous system that's very heightened, and hormones that make them very heightened as well, lots of noradrenaline, dopamine.
And so when we look at a very lean, delicate individual. When we think about how they're going to tolerate stress, if they get left out in the jungle, we know that their ability to tolerate that stress is going to be lower because they have less reserves on their body. They have not as much time before they starve because they're fat tissue and muscle tissue just isn't as great as somebody with a much more substantial body. And so these things are being determined very early on in their life.
And so when we talk about stress for this individual, their nervous system is the thing that protects them from stress, because they don't have big, strong muscles that are gonna help them fight. They don't have a big reserve. They have a very hot nervous system. And so they spend a lot of their time in stage one stress. When they go into stress, they immediately start thinking about the future, and where is my certainty in the future coming from. So they're much more prone to be anxious in a stress, because as soon as their environment gets disrupted, they, they start processing neurally to escape. They have to think their way out of trouble. And the things that stress them...
Lisa:They can't fight their way out, so they have to use their brain.
Dr Cam:They have to make a sweet recovery station up in a tree somewhere where they're safe from predators, and set some traps because they don't want to be in hand to hand combat, like they need, really need to be strategic about it. And so what we know is the types of things that stress this person is cold. Firstly, if they're very, very cold, their body doesn't have the muscle or the fat tissue to stay warm. And that really drains their energy levels. And so temperature is huge. So if you put this person in lots of air conditioning, it actually makes them stressed. This is why we have so many people in offices, stressed by sitting in air conditioning, or while wearing three or four scarves. Because temperature is so important to be controlled, but they can't control it, they actually need external heat to control their temperature.
We also know that their nervous system is more heightened, because the way that they protect themselves is to be in stage one most of the time. So they need to essentially be on high alert. So any noise, people doing random things. And when I say random things, lots of people around them, people are a little bit unpredictable. So their brain is alert to unpredictableness or unpredictability I should say. And so we have cold, we have lots of noise, we have lots of people, people touching them, watch all of these things is going to overload their nervous system, which is the thing that they need to be safe. Yeah, and this creates an enormous amount of stress. As a result, this person is going to need to spend more time in the warm by themselves. And this is because that allows them to dial their senses down and come out of stage one. Because any noise, any cold is like an alert to their body saying this environment is not safe.
And when it comes to how they can manage stress, their mind is very, very important. If they can calm their mind, and also have very, very clear dot points on what they're trying to achieve, and very clear outcomes and guidelines, that brings a whole lot of peace to their brain. Because if they're working with known rules, ‘I have my rules. And if I apply this rule, then my future is now certain. And I don't have to worry about the future anymore, because I'm following the rules'. And so everything for their body is very neural inside, how do I create certainty? How do I reduce the amount of mental alertness that I have? And you need to reduce the amount of mental stimulation.
So this will often come along with long, slender bodies with less muscle tissue, less fat tissue. And in order for them to feel best, they need to have a very clear mind, a calm mind with a very calm environment. And so, you can see though, they would spend a lot of time in stage one constantly checking out the environment.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dr Cam:And that itself can be very exhausting. And so if they're in an environment where they're constantly on like in a really crowded place, or in a nightclub or a festival where there's lots of people and lots of noise, it will, they'll be in cope, just trying to manage all of the nervous stimulation and they'll become exhausted quite quickly because their physical resilience is not as great. They get drained very easily because their nervous system gets tired very easily. Whereas it's very different for other people.
Lisa:So let's for the slender, slight built, not much muscle person, let's go to the opposite end of the scale and look at someone like a Guardian or a Connector, who has a lot of muscle mass, a lot more predisposition to having more adipose tissue and so on. And they've developed in the womb with a lot of energy going into the digestive system.
Dr Cam:Yes, that's right.
Lisa:Yeah. Can you explain the opposite end of the wheel? So what are these people going to, when is it going to be stressful for them? And how do they cope with stressors?
Dr Cam:Yeah, perfect. So this individual, they have more hormones like prolactin, and they are more likely to be insulin resistant. They have a slightly slower thyroid as well. We know subclinical hypothyroidism is very common for these individuals. These are bodies, which are much more like a sumo wrestler, they are bigger, stronger, the most amount of muscle, the most amount of fat tissue, they can accumulate it, they don't have to. They have the strongest bone structure. And essentially, all of these hormones set up, and these metabolic environment sets up for conservation of energy and to protect other people. Prolactin is actually a very protective hormone, it's I need to protect other people. And they respond very well to connection. And so when you've got a body, so the first body that we spoke about is actually quite selfish, I need to look after myself first.
Lisa:Yep.
Dr Cam:Versus this body, the way that it's built psychologically, and behaviourally, due to the hormones and it has in the genes that are playing out, they will be very protective and very nurturing of the people around them. Why are they able to do that? It’s because they have this capacity, they have prolactin and insulin and growth hormone, and IGF 1, all of these hormones actually help you become bigger. For any given circumstance, if this person has more fuel, they will put on more weight as a result of that same amount of fuel. They will conserve better, they will add mass better. And so when you've got this really strong body, very substantial body, you are able to protect others and not be at risk of draining your own energy levels, because you have so much more. And so what happens here is, when this person goes into stress, it's when other people look like they're in stress, the people that they care about them closely. If those people are in stress, their nurturing protective hormones fire up and go up, and they go into a worry state. And then they start worrying about everybody else.
And so, but what's really interesting about this, evolutionarily, this body, when the community experienced stress, their body would go into conservation. Because if everybody was experiencing stress, it means the food supply was about to run short, or we're about to go to war, or about to move camp, and we're not certain about our food supply. So the way that I'm going to manage this is I'm going to gain as much weight as possible, so that when the famine does come, I'm going to be able to support everyone and not have to wait. So it becomes this incredible famine protection.
And so what we see when this person goes into stress, they want the opposite. They conserve energy, they actually go into exhaustion phase, they rest and recover more, they eat more food, which puts them into rest and recovery. They do less exercise, because if they use energy when they're stressed, they think, oh but what is everybody else going to have. And so their body instead of going into hyper-alertness and hyperactivity, and use all of your energy to think this through, this body actually goes into laziness, into cravings of food.
And often the stresses that are created, it's not the temperature, this person is very well-insulated. It's not the nervous system, because this body can really tolerate a lot of physical stress, stress and strain, and mental strain, for that matter. It is disconnection from the family. If they feel disconnected from the people that they’re close, if they see stress in their family, they will feel like the community is threatened. And that will create stress for them. If they're eating very high sugar foods in fact, it represents a stressful result all if my blood sugars are high, then I must be stressed and therefore I need to conserve more. And so the body is able, so that actually creates a stress as well. Doing very, very high intensity exercise in the morning can be a stress for them.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dr Cam:Because this is when prolactin levels are highest when nurturing is going to be most well executed by this person. I guess you wake up in the morning and you nurture the people around you. If you're out there burning all of this very high intensity energy. It actually sends the stress levels, the cortisol levels higher, which is a coping hormone. Yeah, that's stage two. And then this person—they will actually experience a higher level of cortisol for the next few hours, which then makes them insulin resistant and helps them store weight. It's like, ‘I’m spending all my energy and running around in the morning, then there must be something wrong with my family because I'm not looking after them’.
Lisa:And so he put on weight when they do high intensity.
Dr Cam:And it's so fascinating. We'll notice we have people all the time who do 12 weeks of a boot camp first thing in the morning, exactly what they're told, and they don't lose weight, or they gain a little bit of weight.
Lisa:Yep.
Dr Cam:And so this person gets stressed from that social disconnection, first and foremost. And then they can actually live faster to quite well, they're very, very good at it. But when they do get stressed, instead of going into stage one, and more alertness, they don't have to be alert, because they've got resilience. They go into late stage two, they go on to cope. But they also crave, and they use less energy, and they conserve. And so without late stage two and stage three is where they enter into the stress cycle. It's, they don't go through this big worry of the future. They go more into reflecting on the past and feeling down, and their energy levels come down as well, which is the recovery state.
And this is why they're able to gain and grow. Because in recovery, you grow and you gain. In stress you spend and you wither. But as these guys grow and gain in stress, and that's because they enter the stress stages at a different place.
Lisa:And they so that's why for the slighter build person actually will lose weight when they're under stress and...
Dr Cam:And bone. Osteoporosis is... Exactly, yes.
Lisa:And the heavier person will actually put on weight when they're under stress, because the same stress hormones, but they come in in different stages, and for different reasons in that person's life. And so the person who's of a heavier build and a heavier bone structure, they are going to be craving more of those bad foods when they're in a stressed out site. So they'll be searching out for the, you know, the deep fried. Because from an evolutionary perspective, that's what's happening, isn't it? We’re driven to find those high caloric, high GI foods, which were very scarce back in the day, and unfortunately, they're not so scarce now. And so that becomes a real problem for this group of people.
Dr Cam:Yes.
Lisa:And then let's look at the third one. The mesomorphs. I’m sort of, I'm a little bit of mesomorph, a little bit ectomorph. But more muscular, high intensity people who do well under that. What's happening in their bodies?
Dr Cam:Yeah, cool. So just to give a bit of a summary right now, essentially, what we've got is different bodies in stress will go towards their safe zone. So those leaner, more delicate bodies will go within themselves, they'll try and be alone, so that they can create certainty. Because certainty in their future creates safety for them, and warmth as well. Versus and so they will crave to provide warmth, they'll go for warm foods, and for high sugar foods that supply their nervous system. Versus the Guardian will go towards safety in, the heavier that I am, the safer my community is. Because I'll be able to protect them for longer. And so if I go for these low end, like if I don't do much exercise, and if I eat lots of food, the brain will actually motivate them to do exercise and eat lots of food. That then creates weight, weight creates stability, stability, creates safety for the community.
And so when we go to the activator, the activator is that the pure, the body that's developed predominantly with their muscular skeletal system, their adrenal glands are very, and their sex organs are developed. And so they are higher in adrenaline. And it's very sensitive to testosterone. And this makes them, when they are thinking about their best form, it’s uncertainty, is high adrenaline, which makes them feel good also, a competition, and winning. Variety also creates uncertainty as well.
So this body is searching for variety, uncertainty, competition, a bit of risk in order to feel normal, which is very different to the other bodies as well. And so with the things that create stress for them, is the feeling of being trapped. The feeling of being limited, because they like to break out, they like to be free, they like to be in charge. And they don't like to be told what to do. They don't like rules. So anytime that there's a rule in place, they'll be irritated by that look to break it out. And they have to, they have because I have this big adrenal outflow, they get all of this energy just generate very, very quickly and it must come out. And so the thing that creates stress for them is when that energy can't get out, so why don't have someone that I can express with. Or I can't move my body. Movement is actually the way that they can use a lot of this energy as well, because their musculoskeletal system is all tied into their dominant development.
And so when we're talking about this body in stress, it actually kind of likes a bit of stress, because adrenaline is there. And winning is kind of stressful as well, the thing that's going to create problems for them is that if they can't step into this space, they can't step into competition, they can't step into a bit of risk, they are told exactly what to do. They also have more oxidative stress as well, when they do things. They do things at high intensity. And so the body that gets developed out of this is shorter, more muscular than typical. If you look at the top 10 crossfitters on the planet, particularly in the guys, that's a really good depiction of a shorter, muscular, fiery, short and... Exactly. That body is exactly what we're talking about right here. Love a bit of challenge, love a bit of competition, CrossFit is made for this environment, made for this body.
And so what we need to do for this body is not stop it from experiencing stress, because it actually will move towards that in order to get its adrenaline, we actually need to make sure that it recovers appropriately. And so what happens for this body is like it'll be walking around in their day. And they'll say, ‘Oh, hey, we've got this new thing over here, do you want to do that'? They go, ‘Yes, I'm gonna do that'. And then they're at work, and they got all these new projects. ‘Oh, yes, I'll be part of that. Yes, I'll be part of that'. Because their adrenaline is–
Lisa:It’s starting things.
Dr Cam:…’I’m gonna do this, I love this!’ Exactly. So they go high intensity into action, because they've now got so many things stacked up, and they're happy to drop one thing and then move straight to the next. That means that they never get a break from their adrenaline.
Lisa:Yeah.
Dr Cam:And so when that happens, they get more oxidative stress, their joints start getting very sore, they get pent up and frustrated, and they can just become quite exhausted. And so they enter into stage two with their stress response. So they don't, they don't think about the stress, they don't think about worry, and what's going to happen in the future, they don't go through that alarm phase, they go straight into fight, like I'm going to cope with this, I'm going to get into a fight, I'm just going to take action. And so immediately, they go from doing nothing to doing everything very, very quickly, very high intensity change.
And so when that happens, they need to expel their energy. And they, the way that they can expel their energy is by verbalising it and just talking it out. And they've got to have someone who doesn't argue back. And I'm at fault with this many times with my partner, she's an activator, and to express and I want to just sit there and listen like I should, but rather I fight back. But this, essentially, these bodies generally, they need to expel energy. It can be verbal, but the best is physical exertion. If they do really high intensity physical exercise, it will make them feel a whole lot better. But it only goes for 20 to 30 minutes, and then they have to stop. Then they have to stop completely and turn their adrenals off. And one way that you can do that is by lying on your back for 15 minutes, which actually turns off the outflow of ACTH, which is your adrenocorticotropic hormone. It's the one that comes from your brainstem. It says, ‘You should release adrenaline'.
And so if you lie flat on your back, it allows this body to fully recover. So this body is going to naturally step into stress, it's actually a timebase, is to be in a bit of stress. But what they miss out on is recovery spending time with fun people, calm people. Spending time light, like just absolutely resting, stopping throughout the day, and just allowing their body to calm down. That's actually what this body needs.
And so when we're talking about managing stress, the first thing we need to do for this body is not make sure that everyone's okay like and make sure their social circles, okay, it's not make sure you've got all the rules and the processes of time alone, while you have for the other couple of bodies. Now for this body, we need to make sure that they exert their energy and then eat regularly. So because what eating does is it puts them into a stage three of recovery. And so if they're eating six meals per day, they're putting themselves into many recovery sessions throughout the day because their body has to digest. And what happens to this body when they don't eat is they get very hangry. This is the hangriest body. And so we have this situation where they're acting frustrated or intolerant. And it's not because they're not a good person. It's because they haven’t eaten. And if they eat, then all of a sudden they feel so much better. And they deal with things in such a different way. The same thing goes after exercise. And so we have very, very different strategies. We've only spoken about three type generals, where there are six and then everybody's individual within that. But these give you the major, major types of variations that you see based on how we develop and how our genes work.
Lisa:Just a quick question on that, and the activator, on the mesomorph ther. In regards to autophagy, because we—I think we briefly talked on this last week, but I did a whole session on autophagy with Dr Seranova. And, you know, intermittent fasting is a big thing. But how do we—how does an activator do it then? If they want to get the benefits of autophagy, but they can't go without food for long periods of time when they need six meals a day, which is the opposite of what you would advise for someone on the endomorph side of the wheel?
Dr Cam:Yeah.
Lisa:How are we getting—do autophagy going without causing the hangries? And without...
Dr Cam:Yeah, great question. So the first thing and I guess you can apply this question to all of the groups, like the longest, leanest group are going to do the least well with lots of fasting because they've got a metabolism that just needs lots of fuel to stay up and about. And if you make them fast, for too long, they actually get very, very tired, which is a little bit destructive. The, but short fasts, no problem, you know, like a meal or a day.
But generally, it's still providing some carbohydrates is going to be important throughout their day. But they can get away with it. But it's just going to be for a shorter period of time. The more substantial body can deal with fasting for extended periods of time. And so their body is actually set up to benefit significantly from fasting. Yeah, the third version that we've spoken about the high intensity, high oxidative stress type individual, if they are going to be engaging in using lower food intake or fasting to stimulate autophagy, then they want to be reducing their activity at the same time. And they want to be practising some really calming activities, because they need to make sure that they can dispel the energy or not dispel the energy through like a calm activity, as opposed to relying on the high intensity activity or not be stressed in the first place.
So they need to get themselves into a very calm place, environment, with less competition with less things that they can say yes to, with things that allow them to essentially not use their adrenaline energy to jump into things. They need to kind of create a fairly blank environment so that they don't get stimulated by things so that they don't have this requirement for extra energy. So that's essentially we just need to consider the other components to it.
Lisa:Yeah, that really sort of puts it into picture because you want the autophagy you want the cleaning out of the broken proteins and the stuff that you know, that makes us live longer when we do that on a regular basis. And you know, stopping in tour and upregulating your ANPK and all of that sort of stuff. But I was still a bit of a mystery in my head. But how do I do that when I'm an activator, activator Crusader, I'm on that cusp. So for you know, I get it that people on the Guardian side, they can go without. But for me, you know, that's always been. So if I'm going to do a fast, I need to make sure that I'm in a really non-stressed out situation and calm, which doesn't happen very often. Let's move now just briefly, we will wrap it up shortly. But immunity, we're in, in relation to all of this stress responses and so on. What's happening on a biochemistry level when, when we're under the stress in, right now with COVID. And all the other winter coming down here in the Southern Hemisphere, we don't want to get sick, we want to make sure our immune system’s on fire. What can we do to improve our immune system in regards to these different body types?
Dr cam:Yeah, perfect. So, and the most important thing here is in order for our immune system to come on, then we have to get into stage three and homeostasis. That may—the stages that we need to be in in order to stimulate our immune system. And so what that means, we have to put ourselves into recovery. And so one of the most profound things that we can do straightaway where all of, most of our recovery happens from the day, our mental recovery and our physical recovery is sleep. We need to make sure that we get enough sleep. There are different things that create sleep for different people. But seven to nine hours is recommended for everybody. And it's very, very important that we get that sleep to stop it. So that's the first piece.
The second piece then is every part of our environment is creating stress. And so we need to make sure that we understand what's happening in the environment and how that's going to affect different people so that we can recover from that stress appropriately. And so if we were to go to the three groups once again, and I'll just preface this by saying that every single person's journey to an improved immune system is actually fully personalised. And it needs to be tailored specifically to you. And this is something obviously—that we work with you on Lisa with ph360, we got personalised immune protocols that actually allow you to do that and get all of this stuff that I'm about to address in principle, but for you specifically.
So we have—if we were talking about the donor, reverse, or from last time, we talked about the activator, and the activator connectors versus a bit of Crusader in there too, that top left of the circle. Essentially, we're going to be looking at what are the things that remind—bring safety to this body movement will support that. So if we do exercise, a high intensity exercise for this individual, and then we have full recovery, what we know from one bout of exercise, you can get increased immunosurveillance, that is your immune system is now more alert to the environment, rather than waiting for bacteria and virus and ready to pounce on them stronger.
We also know that if you're exercising regularly for eight to 12 weeks, you will see less chance of getting an infection, less chance or lower amounts of severity and lower amounts of time sick. So just being physically fitter, has a profound effect on that. However, if you're a Guardian or a Diplomat, and you're doing high intensity exercise in the morning, it actually adds to your stress load. Yeah, so but if you do it in the afternoon, then that's going to really improve your immune function and your recovery throughout the night. So exercise is a stress, it is a particularly potent way of enhancing your immune system. And the same goes to sleep as well. Sleep, just one poor night's sleep can ruin 70% of your immune response. And so having enough sleep, really important. Making sure that you're moving in a way that's appropriate for your body at the right time, very important.
And it's even more important for the activators. Because they're their body is so requiring the release of that pent up stress. Then when we start talking about, if we start talking about guardians, then just to talk about a couple of different sort of topics, the Guardians and the diplomats or even the Guardian, specifically here, they need a really connected social environment. And if they're experiencing a lot of stress socially, like they're isolated from their family, they disconnected from the people that they really believe are very close. Or if there's a lot of infighting and arguments and all that sort of stuff in the family home while they're in lockdown, for example, yeah, that social stress is going to create a whole lot of stress for this individual, put them into cope and then downregulate their immune system.
And you'll know this as well is that if you're in a, you know, stressful work, relationship or social relationship, you don't feel at your best and your immune system is actually being decreased with time. But it's even more for the guardians and the connectors key. And we have, you know, that the senses and the Crusaders, they're very neural in the way that they stress. And so body type. Yeah, exactly the lot of bodies often more delicate. And so some movement is going to be great. But ultimately, sleep is going to be important. Social is not going to be as important for this individual, what's going to be really important is that they can actually calm their nervous system to bring them out of stage one stress, if they're doing meditation regularly, if they're going for slow jobs, either have an evening or have a morning, or they're doing stretches and yoga, that actually calms the nervous system very well, which then takes them out of stress one at stage one and stage two, which allows their immune system to come back on. And so we have these different priorities. We've got, you know, movement for the more mesomorphic bodies, we've got social connectedness, movements also going to be very important here too, as is food.
And then we have the neural calmness and environmental calmness of warmth is going to be very important, but then we get into food, food, you know, it has all of these incredible little compounds that specifically drive your immune system to pick up or push down or to be able to, melylike, you need enough protein to build your immune system. Generally, you need, you need your you know, the right fats to control inflammation, you need the antioxidants to help reduce some of the damage that's going on when we're finding all of these bugs from the oxidative stress. And so activators are going to need lots and lots of antioxidants for that reason because they experienced more oxidative stress.
Guardians are going to be better served to do some fasting and the fasting will really support them in bringing their blood sugar levels down, helping them go into recovery, really supporting their digestive system, controlling their blood pressure in many cases as well versus—and so, versus the the sensors and Crusaders are going to actually need a bit of carbohydrate. I’m going because the carbohydrates provide mental calm for them. Because if they don't have carbohydrates, their brain can go into a stress state to provide fuel breaking down protein turning into carbohydrates, with lots of cortisol. And so the compounds that you need specifically are individual. But we have these general principles that govern what different people need. And this is why, if you know, you say ‘I'm going to improve our immune system through this generic program, right here’, there's a very good chance, it's not going to be appropriate for you. And so you really need to understand what your body needs so that you can get the best benefit.
And most people will benefit from low calorie intake for a few days, at least, you know, activators, any five days of no protein, no fats, fats versus guardians will actually do very well on broth only, fluids only, non-caloric fluids only for 10 days. Whereas the diplomat will need 10 days of just fruits and vegetables, but very little protein, very little fat as well. So there's a different protocol for different individuals. But the lower calorie really helps to reset the immune system in many ways. And there's been some lovely research by Professor Longo on that stuff around fasting and how it stimulates stem cell production of your immune cells.
So if you're taking care of the whole body, you're understanding, you know, what kind of environment you need to be, what kind of movement is going to be appropriate, what kind of social environment is essential, then you put the right types of foods in as well, you're going to see a whole system wide increase in your immune system. And then the studies that we ran last year, we looked at very detailed immune markers. And we saw significant change applying the protocols that are found in pH 360. We show significant change in the immune aggressivity and readiness in 10 days. So you can really change these markers very, very quickly. And really, the only thing that we have is a strong immune system. That's that's the thing. That's what vaccines lean on as well. Yeah. It leans on your ability as a non response. Yeah. And this is why vaccines are effective as effective in some individuals with suppressed immunity. So we definitely, we need a strong immune system, irrespective of what path you take with this.
Lisa:Yes, absolutely. And that's just so important right now, and to understand the nuance between the different types of detoxes, and the different types of ways of dealing with the different body types is just so, so crucial. And autophagy and cleaning out, and it's like taking out the garbage regularly. I can put in all my antioxidants and all my good vitamins and all my good nutrients. But if I'm not taking the garbage out on a regular basis, and doing that appropriately for my body type, and then you know, you're going to have suboptimal performance and suboptimal immune system. And yes, so stress, resilience, immunity, huge pieces of this giant puzzle that we're all trying to put together. And we're very complex. It's not, it's not easy, it's not easy. But giving this framework to the whole thing with the different body types. I've never seen this in any other system that that I have learned and or researched or read about where it's actually personalised, you know.
And that's why I think it's so powerful, because you can read a book on fasting and go, Well, I'm going to do that. But you need to know how to do it best for your body. And that's, you know, and how to detox for your body, and how to do all this. Dr Cam you’ve been brilliant today, again, as usual, a mine of information, and just brilliance. So thank you very much for jumping on again, I really appreciate your time, and the work that you do. And if anybody wants help with understanding what health type you have understanding this specifically to you, then that's what we do, please reach out to us. I'll have all the links in the show notes. But just head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the ‘Work With Us’ button, you'll see our peak epigenetics program. And this is the sort of people that we're working with Dr Cam, the CEO of ph 360, in Australia, and he's one of our great teachers. And this program is really, really beneficial for people who are wanting to optimise the genes, not just for stress and immunity and resilience, but also an optimal performance in every area of your life.
So thanks very much, Dr Cam, anything to add today before we hop off?
Dr Cam:Yeah, I will say one thing and that is your body is always on your side. Som and the thing that we think is that our body is fighting us or not cooperating with us or essentially our response to stress, whatever we think in our brain doesn't really matter what's going on in our body. And the information we take from that is very, very Very important. So when your body is genuinely tired, it's saying, ‘Hey, I don't have quite as much energy as what this activity requires, I need rest’, it's actually speaking to you and saying, ‘I need rest’, I'm saying, ‘Oh, my body sucks, I'm going to get better at not being tired’. Yeah, and I'm just going to have more coffee'. Your body is not deficient in caffeine, it's, it's actually deficient in the appropriate recovery for it.
And the biggest realisation that I had is that your body is always trying to do the best for you. And if you start listening, you'll find that that stress-recovery cycle is far easier to manage. And we didn't even get into resilience, which I'd love to talk about another time. Yeah, know how—when you're in that state of that balance between stress and recovery, you are able to mount an attack on anything that you want, from a very, very strong place. And so the—know that your body is always, always on your side, start listening to it more. Because you'll start getting keys into when you need rest, when you can push. There's a bunch of things that you can do around that. But I just want to really get you to start listening a lot more, because that's where this can, this can all start.
Lisa:And I think you know, especially for some of the audience, who are athletes and hard charges, and people that you know, go go go, it's all very well and good. But just remember, you still made of flesh and blood. And you need to respect the biology. And there are times when we can push outside the norms and do crazy things and amazing things. But then afterwards, you need to go into that recovery phase, and you're not bulletproof like you think you are. And there was one a good analogy, you know. Your body will give you a little tap on the head saying, ‘Hey, I need a raise, or I need something from you, and if you ignore it', then it will be a real hit on the shoulder, ‘Hey, I need a rest'. And next time it will be a mech truck that comes in flattened shoe. And it will be something major. And we don't want that. So listen to the little tests. Before you have to get a mech track to put you on your back.
Dr Cam:Absolutely. Just being a little bit fatigued after two hours of work is a little whisper in your ear. It's Yeah, very, very good to listen at that point. Absolutely.
Lisa:Yeah. And I'm going to do that just now go and go out for a walk in nature for 15 minutes and digest this wonderful information that you've given us today. So thank you, Dr Cam, really appreciate it.
Dr Cam:Thanks for having me on. It's great to be able to talk about this stuff.
Lisa:Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode with Dr Cam McDonald. He really is a mine of information. He is brilliant at the way he brings things across. He does it far better than I ever could. So I hope you enjoyed that session. If you're interested in doing the epigenetics program, we will discuss everything and learn everything about your specific set of genes and how they can be optimised through the right lifestyle interventions, the right diet, the right exercise, and everything that we've just talked about in this interview, then please head on over to lisatamati.com. Hit the ‘Work With Us button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program. Go over there, check it out. If you've got any questions, please reach out to our support@lisatamati.com. Happy to jump on a call with you want me, or one of my colleagues can jump on a call, explain more about what it's all about and how it all works. So make sure you do that.
And thanks very much for listening again, we really do appreciate your time and attention. We don't take it for granted. And we love you. Thank you very much for all the help you've given this podcast.
That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
23 Nov 2022
The latest in Longevity and Anti-aging science with Biotechnologist Greg Macpherson
01:10:38
This week on Pushing the Limits Lisa interview Biotechnologist and longevity specialist, pharmacist, entrepreneur and author Greg Macpherson on Harnessing the 9 hallmarks of aging.
What you will learn in this episode:
How to slow down the aging process
What diet, lifestyle and supplement interventions we can undertake to extend our lifespan,
Where the longevity science is at and what we can expect in the next decade and why it's not inconceivable for us to live in healthy state way beyond 120 years.
You will also about some of the pathways that affect aging and how we can slow the aging clock.
We highly recommend you read Gregs amazing book "Harnessing the nine hallmarks of aging" and check out his product range in our shop at
Greg is the founder of SRW Labs (Science, Research, Wellness Laboratories) that develops cutting edge anti-aging and longevity formulations.
Greg Macpherson is a biotechnologist, cellular health expert, entrepreneur and author of, “Harnessing the Nine Hallmarks of Aging: to live your healthiest life.” For more than 30 years he has worked at the intersection of technology and the health fields and recently, in the last decade working in the biotechnology sector, specifically focusing on the aging process at the cellular level.
This work led him to discover ways to harness the nine identified, scientific hallmarks of aging, which is the premise of this book which helps the reader translate the complex science associated with cellular aging creating a how-to-handbook that addresses the natural aging process, providing simple strategies to slow the aging process and build a functional longevity plan.
Beyond theory and concept, Macpherson has used his entrepreneurial spirit to further develop solutions to this new paradigm of aging, described in his book, by founding SRW Laboratories (www.srw.co).
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Unlocking the Power of Colostrum: Immune, Cell & Gut Benefits of Immunel a concentrated extract of Colostrum.
00:38:50
In this episode, we dive deep into one of nature’s most powerful superfoods—colostrum—and explore its incredible benefits for immune function, gut health, and overall well-being. But we’re taking it a step further by introducing Immunel, a highly concentrated and bioactive colostrum extract developed by Sterling Technology. Immunel represents the 5th generation of colostrum, setting a new standard for immune and gut support.
Topics Covered:
What is Colostrum?
The first milk produced after birth, rich in antibodies (IgG), growth factors, and bioactive peptides.
The science behind 9,000+ PubMed studies on colostrum’s health benefits.
The Health Benefits of Bovine Colostrum
Immune Boosting: Clinical research shows colostrum is 3x more effective than the flu vaccine in reducing flu incidence.
Gut Healing Properties: Protects the GI lining, reduces diarrhea by 86.6%, and helps in ulcerative colitis management.
Anti-Inflammatory Effects: Supports those with NSAID-induced GI issues.
Stem Cell & Regenerative Potential.
Immunel: The Next Evolution in Colostrum
A concentrated colostrum extract packed with key bioactive compounds:
Growth Factors (IGF-1, TGF-ß2)
Proline-Rich Polypeptides (PRPs) for immune modulation
Enzymes (lysozyme, lactoperoxidase, lactoferrin) for pathogen defense
Sialic Acid & Nucleotides essential for immune function & DNA synthesis
Immunel vs. Standard Colostrum
Unlike standard colostrum, which focuses on IgG content, Immunel is clinically validated for immune activation and pathogen defense.
Outperforms β-glucans and vitamin C in immune response.
The economic burden of flu & colds: 75M lost workdays annually, costing $37.5B.
Growing consumer interest: 47% of people prioritize immune health, driving demand for functional foods.
Immunel is a next-generation, scientifically backed immune and gut health solution—more bioavailable and effective than traditional colostrum. Perfect for daily supplementation to support overall health and resilience.
Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs is a cutting-edge supplement meticulously formulated to enhance immune, gut, and cellular health. By integrating nature's most potent bioactives, including Immunel® this daily foundational supplement offers a comprehensive approach to promoting longevity and overall well-being. Immunel® combined with IDP, Kawakawa and Carnosic acid round out our formulation. Immunel is a concentrated colostrum extract and, is rich in natural immune peptides and growth factors that stimulate immune activity and rejuvenate the ageing immune system, providing rapid immune support.
Experience the synergy of science and nature with Re:juvenate Pro, and take a proactive step towards optimal health.
🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
📌 Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
🔬 Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.
🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Ep 42: Te Radar - Comedian, Satirist, documentary maker
00:55:17
Te Radar (Andrew J Lumsden) is an award winning satirist, documentary maker, writer, stage and screen director, failed gardener, and amateur historian.
He was also the presenter of six top rating TVNZ documentary series, Global Radar, Radar Across the Pacific, Radar’s Patch, Off the Radar, Hidden In The Numbers and Homegrown. Global Radar won the 2012 New Zealand Television Award for Best Information Programme, and Radar Across the Pacific won for Best Factual Programme.
Te Radar was nominated for Best Presenter – Entertainment/Factual. Radar’s Patch won the 2010 Qantas Film and Television Award for Best Information/Lifestyle Programme.
He has recently toured his acclaimed New Zealand history show Eating the Dog following its award-winning season at the New Zealand International Comedy Festival.
In this interview Lisa talks to Radar about his journey to success.
Why it was a case of having to "make it" and finds out what method there is to the magical madness he creates.
He talks about successes and failures and why doing it his own way was so important to him.
We would like to thanks our sponsors
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at Training Tilt
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy: It's Impact On Stem Cell Mobilization With Lisa Tamati
00:21:54
In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" welcome to an in-depth exploration of the revolutionary world of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) and its profound connection to stem cell production in the human body. In this comprehensive video, we embark on a journey to unravel the intricacies of HBOT, shedding light on its mechanisms, applications, and the fascinating interplay with stem cells.
Video Highlights: Join us as we navigate the depths of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, a cutting-edge medical intervention that harnesses the power of pressurized oxygen to stimulate healing. Throughout the video, we'll address fundamental questions such as:
What is Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy? Uncover the science behind the pressurized chambers and how they enhance oxygen delivery to body tissues. Stem Cells Demystified: Delve into the world of stem cells, understanding their pivotal role in regeneration, repair, and overall health.
The Science Unveiled: We'll break down the scientific principles that make HBOT a compelling avenue for medical intervention. Explore how increased oxygen levels under pressure influence cellular processes, and the potential implications for stem cell mobilization.
Stem Cells and Healing: Discover the critical role stem cells play in the body's natural healing processes. From tissue repair to immune system support, we'll examine the versatility of stem cells and why they are considered the building blocks of regeneration.
How Does HBOT Boost Stem Cell Production? Unravel the intricate mechanisms through which Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy may enhance the body's ability to mobilize and activate stem cells. This includes the impact on tissue microenvironments, angiogenesis, and anti-inflammatory responses.
Applications in Health and Medicine: Explore the diverse range of medical applications for HBOT, from chronic wound healing to neurological disorders. Gain insights into ongoing research and the potential future developments in regenerative medicine.
Expert Interviews and Testimonials: We've consulted with leading experts in the field to provide a holistic perspective on the efficacy and safety of HBOT. Hear firsthand testimonials from individuals who have experienced the benefits.
Related Research: Listen to these these podcast episodes on our show "Pushing the Limits" on Stem Cell mobilisation: with Stem Cell Scientist Dr Christian Drapeau https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-christian-drapeau/
On Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy: with Dr Jason Sonners: https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-jason-sonners/
with Dr Scott Sherr https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast-dr-scott-sherr_/
If you would like to try STEMREGEN, the stem cell supplement by Dr Christian Drapeau go here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/search?q=stemregen
Educational Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 02:30 - Understanding Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy 07:15 - The Marvels of Stem Cells 11:45 - Bridging the Gap: HBOT and Stem Cell Interaction 16:30 - Real-world Applications and Case Studies 21:00 - Expert Insights and Interviews 25:45 - The Future of HBOT and Regenerative Medicine
Subscribe Now for More Scientific Insights: Don't miss out on the latest in medical science! Hit the subscribe button, click the notification bell, and embark on a journey of discovery with us.
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
Comprehensive Thyroid testing
DUTCH Hormone testing
Adrenal Testing
Organic Acid Testing
Microbiome Testing
Cell Blueprint Testing
Epigenetics Testing
DNA testing
Basic Blood Test analysis
Heavy Metals
Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
Join our Patron program and support the show
Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.
Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.
Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel
with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.
PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
100% vegan and non-GMO.
The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos
Ep 77 - Dr Scott Sherr on Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy
00:49:36
Dr. Sherr believes that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) -- the administration of 100% oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure -- is one of the most powerful ways to decreasing inflammation, accelerate wound healing, and optimise both physical and mental performance.
He is one of the few HBOT providers in the USA that creates personalised treatment plans for patients that include cutting edge & dynamic HBOT protocols, adjunctive technologies, laboratory testing, and nutritional interventions.
Dr. Sherr is the Director of Integrative Hyperbaric Medicine and Health Optimization at Hyperbaric Medical Solutions, in addition to operating his own independent hyperbaric consultation practice and performing in-person consultations in the San Francisco Bay Area (where he lives). Dr. Sherr aims to create access and educate all those who may benefit from HBOT through telemedicine consulting, advocacy, and education practice worldwide.
I wanted to share this episode because hyperbaric was the therapy that I credit with being the major component in my mother, Isobel's rehabilitation after a devastating brain injury over two years ago.
Isobel was left with hardly any higher funcitoning, the brain damage was so severe she was unable to control her body in any meaningful fashion, had virtually no memory, no speech and was let in the . stage of a toddler at the age of 74.
But after three months in hospital and after months studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy and searching for somewhere to get her access to it I was lucky enough to find a chamber to use. Wha followed was in my opinion nothing short of miraculous. and now after thousands of hours of training, combined with supplemetation and diet changes and over 170 hyperbaric sessions later. Mum is completely normal again, can walk, read, write, do all her normal daily duties and is living a full life again, her doctor saying is a one in a million comeback story.
This is why I was so excited to get one of the worlds leading experts on this therapy to speak on my podcast and to explain much lcearer and better just what the mechanisms of HBOT are and the benefits, limitations and research going into this area of medicine.
So make sure you save this episode and share it as far and as wide as possible.
The fact that I was able to get access to one of the world's top experts in this fields is just amazing and I want to make sure that all who need to hear this information get access to it and to hypebaric oxygen therapy.
I am also happy to have people contact me direct with questions.
lisa@lisatamati.co.nz
Dr Sherr can be contacted for online consultations at Dr Scott Sherrs website
We would like to thank our sponsors
Running Hot Coaching:
The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.
Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?
Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?
Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?
Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?
If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.
We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.
So who are we?
Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz
Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success
Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt
The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.
Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?
If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.
Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.
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10 Mar 2022
Reverse Ageing to Live Longer and Healthier with Dr. Elena Seranova
00:57:46
No one is exempt from ageing, and with aging comes diseases and sickness. Decreased performance and cell production also occur because of this phenomenon. Lifestyle changes may be inadequate to help your body function properly.
Over the past years, longevity science has been evolving, with the emergence of several anti-ageing supplements in the market. However, the body may not absorb these supplements effectively enough to slow down the effects of ageing.
In this episode, Dr Elena Seranova explains how the ageing process works. She details how to use supplements, complemented by lifestyle changes, to reverse ageing. She also shares how NMN can be coupled with TMG to create the ultimate longevity supplement. There’s no one supplement to optimise your health, but good habits and lifestyle changes are integral to having a longer and healthier life!
If you want to learn how to reverse ageing through supplements and lifestyle changes, then this episode is for you!
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
Understand the aging process, its vicious cycle, and how it affects and changes our bodies.
Learn how you can slow down and reverse the effects of aging.
Discover how you can combine TMG with NMN for better results.
Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up
For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go tohttps://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.
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CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries
Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us atsupport@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us atsupport@lisatamati.com.
Order My Books
My latest bookRelentlesschronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here:https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling booksRunning HotandRunning to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go tohttps://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.
Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements
NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor
Feel Healthier and Younger*
Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.
What is NMN?
NMN Biooffers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.
Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.
Support Your Healthy Ageing
We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.
Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility
Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined
There are a growing number of anti-ageing products as we understand the ageing process better.
Multiple cellular processes decline or become imbalanced as people age.
There are 9 hallmarks of ageing, and the study recently added another hallmark to include inflammation.
The top four killer diseases are cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurodegeneration, and diabetes. The older you are, the higher your chance of developing one of these diseases.
Our body peaks at 25 and starts the aging process from there.
[06:06] Why Is NMN Important?
NMN stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide and is a Vitamin B3 derivative.
It’s a natural molecule that you can get from food, but getting an efficient dosage requires supplementation.
NMN is a precursor to help our metabolism, and it boosts NAD levels. NAD serves as fuel for SIRTUIN proteins that are involved in rejuvenation processes.
NAD is vital to keep our cells healthy and ensure they don’t lose their identity.
[09:23] What Happens in the Body as We Age
Cell identity is vital. What differentiates cells is how certain parts of the genomes are read. As we age, this process can become chaotic.
Chromatin is a substance in a chromosome. Lightly packed chromatin under active transcription is called euchromatin. Heterochromatin, on the other hand, is more condensed and transcriptionally silent.
Epigenetic changes can dictate which areas will be active or inactive. This defines how a cell can be expressed.
Sirtuins are crucial in making sure the right genes are active and mediating DNA repair. However, they become less efficient as we age.
This is how our epigenetic regulation becomes loose, leading to genomic instability and loss of cellular identity.
[15:33] How Aging Can Create a Vicious Cycle
NAD is the fuel source of sirtuin genes. When these genes are depleted, our DNA can’t be repaired.
As we age, NAD production depletes. DNA breaks and genome instability also increase.
This becomes a vicious cycle of needing more energy but with less production.
Furthermore, genome instability can increase senescence or zombie cells. These can further increase genome instability.
Senescent cells are cells that forget how to do their function well and stop replicating. These cells can further drain NAD levels.
[18:19] The Link Between Fasting and Cell Autophagy
Autophagy is the process where cells can get rid of toxins and other things that are not needed anymore.
Autophagy ensures housekeeping and can be triggered by fasting.
12 hours of fasting can start autophagy in the liver, while 20 hours of fasting can start the process in other tissues.
Eating can activate mTOR, which is another vital cell regulator. This process is deactivated through supplements like Berberine.
Learn to balance both eating and fasting. Hear about Dr Elena’s fasting schedule and supplements in the full episode!
[27:48] Why Dr Elena Launched TMG
Methylation is vital for the body’s most critical functions. These include creating neurotransmitters, cell division, energy production, metabolism, and epigenetics.
Dr Elena launched TMG to boost NMN’s effectiveness and metabolism.
Methylation and TMG can control homocysteine levels, which correlate with cardiovascular diseases. TMG may also enhance athletic performance.
It also has a good safety profile with no side effects despite higher dosage.
Dr Elena recommends a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio of NMN to TMG. For every 500 milligrams of NMN, take 1 to 2 grams of TMG.
[33:31] Do We Need to Worry about Hyper-methylation?
It’s difficult to hyper-methylate. However, individual genetic factors can affect homocysteine levels.
To check your homocysteine levels, you can undergo a blood test or check your gene variants with a genetic test
TMG is an osmoregulator that helps regulate cell balance and can optimize methylation.
After taking over 20 grams, a laxative effect may appear.
[39:41] Where to Start
Dr Elena recommends taking NMN, TMG, and extra virgin olive oil for anti-ageing.
NMN can also help increase insulin sensitivity and boost collagen production, as seen in human clinical trial in prediabetic women.
The market has a lot of collagen supplements, but not all of them are absorbed by the body effectively.
Insulin sensitivity decreases as we age. This is the body’s ability to let glucose flow freely into cells.
You can reverse ageing problems with a better lifestyle and supplements. Dr Elena recommends avoiding carbohydrates in your diet.
[42:55] How to Have a Healthier Diet
Around 80% of adults in the West may be pre-diabetic.
So many foods nowadays are made to be addictive.
While a vegan diet can help you detox at first, you will eventually experience amino acid depletion. Dr Elena prefers a carnivore diet.
She also does fasting with a three-hour eating window. You can start with a longer eating window and slowly reduce it.
You don’t want a glucose spike in the morning.
[48:06] You Don’t Need to Be Perfect
You don’t have to be perfect every day, but make sure you stay consistent with your overall longevity routine.
Exercise and saunas activate Sirtuins. Try to have a routine for one or both.
Optimize your routine and find out what works for you.
[50:52] NMN Bio’s Growth
Dr Elena shares that her company has been growing rapidly. They now have a UK warehouse, UK Amazon FBA, and another warehouse in Europe.
They are also expanding to the United States.
Remember that no one supplement will do everything for you. You also need to change your lifestyle, which includes diet, exercise, and even biorhythms.
There’s a lot of information about longevity online, and it can become overwhelming. This is why Dr Elena created an online course about longevity.
Dr Elena recommends making sure your circadian rhythm is not disrupted.
Resources
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Tune in to more Pushing the Limits episodes on health and ageing!
[04:28]‘The older you are, the highest your risk of getting one of these diseases; so if it's not gonna be one of them, it's gonna be the other one… Now we start realising when does aging start, which is actually at quite a young age, basically at the age of 25. Because this is where our hormones peak…’
[12:25]‘There are multiple functions that Sirtuins need to attend to within the cell. With age, this function becomes less and less efficient, basically, because sirtuins become more forgetful.’
[16:02]‘So as we age, the production of NAD is declining. So this means that there is less NAD available for sirtuins to use as their fuel to do their job.’
[39:52]‘There are so many collagen supplements on the market, but not all of them are efficient. And actually not all of them are being absorbed properly because when you do take collagen orally, basically, it’s broken down into amino acids in your digestive system. And then those amino acids may or may not be used to produce more collagen.’
[47:56]‘We’re all on this road of re-educating ourselves and don't go for perfection. Just go for better, I think is a message as well, you don't have to be perfect.’
[52:22]‘With regards to the longevity field, I think that it's very important for people to understand that there is no such thing as the fountain of youth. There is no one supplement that you're going to take that is going to do everything for you.’
[56:40]‘If your melatonin is disrupted, then you will have less defense against reactive oxygen species and that there is another plethora of processes that melatonin is also implicated in and then you don't have all these benefits. And then you're basically aging faster… Takeaway message from today's podcasts. Make sure that you go to sleep early, everyone.’
About Dr Elena
Dr Elena Seranovais a scientist, serial entrepreneur and business mentor. She has now founded multiple innovative biotechnological businesses. She first studied at the University of Ioannina with a major in Psychology. Dr Elena then started a private practice before developing an interest in neuroscience.
She continued her studies and earned her Master’s Degree in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield. She now also holds a Doctorate Degree in Stem Cell Biology and Autophagy from the University of Birmingham.
Dr Elena’s expertise in these fields has led her to become the co-founder of a biotech start-up, SkyLab Bio. She has written several peer-reviewed articles on autophagy throughout her career.
In addition to these accomplishments, she started her latest business, NMN Bio. Her own experiences with the use of supplements have inspired her to expand the market to supply the public with cutting-edge anti-ageing supplements. NMN Bio reaches New Zealand, the UK, and Europe.
Dr Elena found her passion for drug discovery and autophagy. She has endeavoured to share this with the public through her research and work as an entrepreneur.
To learn more about Dr Elena and her work, visitNMN Bio.
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Many athletes have the attitude you just have to go hard all the time, they are tough and unbending when it comes to training, they know it sometimes hurts and is hard and you just have to deal with that. Take a teaspoon of concrete and harden up and this attitude has some great benefits with your sporting and fitness ambitions but can also . have great benefits for other areas of your life. You learn mental toughness and how to push through, however this approach can also lead to burnout and adrenal exhaustion, a break down of the immune system even hormone imbalances and stress. The body doesn't improve during the training phase it actually improves when you are resting and recovering and so it is crucial to factor this in and to make sure you are ready for your hard workouts prior to doing them.
In this episode Lisa Tamati and Exercise Scientist Neil Wagstaff talk about how to tell where you body is at and how to read the signals it is giving you so that you can optimise your performance and stay in optimal health without compromise.
They have also prepared a free guide to download so you can assess your own body and this can be downloaded at
If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.
All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.
www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group
Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.
Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!
No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.
The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics
You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com
Show Transcription
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by LisaTamati.com.
Speaker 2
00:14
Well, hi everybody Lisa Tamati here, pushing the limits here with my wing man. Neil Wagstaff Neil how are you're doing.
Speaker 3
00:19
I'm good. Thank you. I'm good.
Speaker 2
00:20
We've got another great episode already for you guys today. I hope you're all excited. Now today weare going to be talking about how to tell if you are under or over-training. And this might be very counter intuitive for a lot of the people who are just saying go hard, go harder or go home. But we want to talk to you a little bit about finding balance in, in actually how to, how to work out whether your body is actually trying to tell you that it's time to pull back, have a bitof recovery time and what to do there. So Neil, takeit away.
Speaker 3
00:53
Take it away. It'salthoughasyou, some of youmayseen out there that moment, we've got a great guide and one of ebooks which were put in the show notes afterwards on how to work out if you'reunderor over on the training so thatI'llhave all the contentandfor you guys at the end. But we use with our athletes and ourselves as well by Felicia and I, we useour, the runninghotcoaching wellnesscheckandthatwellnesswellness checkittake you through a series of serious different things to look at. Very subjective. And all you're going to do iswriteyourself on a scale of one to ten one being that you are feeling like you're in the toilet, 10 being that you are rock and rollin, you are all, all guns blazing.you'reonfire.
Speaker 3
01:31
Okay. So you aregoingto do this and rate yourself on a simple one to 10 scale with your sleep, your nutrition, hydration, movement, any injuries or niggles you've got your energy levels and then your stress levels as well. So seven things you're gonna check in on each of those. As I say, you right for one. So if you're scoring a one on everything and you base it in the toilet, does that equal going out and doing a high intensity interval training? No heel repeats? Probably not. So likewise, if you're up at a 10 and you've got all this energy in the tank, you should be able to go out and do a do a tough session. I just want to dig a little bit deeper into it because what you're gonna find as you collect this information each day, and we can send you out the spreadsheet we used to do this afterwards as well, is it will start to develop a picture for you.
Speaker 3
02:17
You simply get up in the morning, have a look through, doesn't take any time at all, andyoujustgo, right, where am I at? Scale of one to 10. Just go through your, your check, see where your schools are at and you'll start see a pattern developing side. Personally. Also a pattern developing with my sleep. My sleep was where my scores were low. And do youniggles coming in as well? So very quickly identified to me that the area I needed to be working on was my, was my sleep. Whereas in hindsight, years gone by, if I wanted to get better in my running, I would have done nine times or 10 times out of 10 I would have gone out and done another info session. We'll go on out andthen another hill session or run my longer run would've had half an hour added to it because in my head many years ago, to be a better runner, you need to run more than an exit.
Speaker 3
03:03
We used to have this same conversation as well when I started coaching with you, Lisa. But it's what we've learned now is that now by me addressing my sleep, guess what? That's making me a better runner. So dropping a session each week. So going from five day run days a week tofull run days a week and getting my sleep from six and a half hours to seven anda half, eight hours, I've become a better runner and we're finding exactly the same thing's happening with all the people using it with often the things that are popping up will be hydration issues is that, imagine again the same thing youwill get. You're going out and doingyour running with people that we're talking toare going out and doing. They're running, they're doing more running cause I think that's gonna make them a better runner, higher intensity, more volume and they're doing it in a day hydrated state.
Speaker 3
03:44
So all they're doing by adding more load and volume and intensity is the becoming a worse runner, more injured runner and more unhealthy runner folks on the hydration instead because you've identified that as the area you need to work on, all of a sudden it starts, it starts improving thing that we want to point out as well as chatting to one of our clients over in the states yesterday. Lovely lady we worked with over there and in some of the time is fine understanding it and you and Ihave been here, Lisa, we've been at many times. It's fine when you understand all this, all this makes perfect sense from a science point of view and a theory point of view, application is the hardest bit. So I've programmed her to have a, she was on a five day run, wewere starting to go into a taper program thatI started dropping it down into four days and she understood why but it was now what am I goingto do with Wednesday?
Speaker 2
04:33
Yeah. I'm psychologically not coping.
Speaker 3
04:35
Yeah. Well I haven'tbeenWednesday. Wednesdaysarerunday. What happens with Wednesday? So it's also, if you are playing with it and your schools are telling you you needstomeet an easy day, replace it with something that you can go and have fun with. So get 'em replace it with a yoga class for example. Or go for a walk instead of a run going, do something you enjoy but enjoy that day. Yeah. It'sbeen given to you to fill your tank a little bit more, fill your cup a little bit more, give you a little bit more energy, which is gonna make you a better runner,
Speaker 2
05:01
Okay? She does not mean that you're a lazy ass. Not mean that you are useless, that you are not tough enough.
Speaker 3
05:08
Listen, somebody songs and we had that conversation
Speaker 2
05:11
Very, very many times and we still have it though. We knew it because you know, psychologically is athletes. We are often very much Taipei crewstothe, allof these. We'd go get us. We want to, we want to work hard, we want to fight hard, we want to play hard. But which is fine and this is obviously, it's really fun when you're a 20 year old and you don't have a lot of other things on your plate, okay? And you get away with a heck of a lot more. Just like you could get away with partying and then going running a marathon the next day when you were 20. Not so great when you're 50. And in things you have to change as you get older. With each, with each decade, you need to look at things differently. That does not mean that you get weaker, that you get lazier, that you use ages and excuse.
Speaker 2
05:53
It just means you was up to the way that your body needs a definitely different stimulus in different stages of your life. And this is part of what we're trying to teach you is to understand your own body so that you know when it's time to push and when it's time to back off. And I'm obviously, I am, you know, preaching to the, the worst person on the planet. You know, like I will still go out when I've got an injury and I'll still try and whenI'll got a cold and I shouldn't be. And I know, and it's a real battle inside my head. So I get this, this is a battle. But when I, you know, as I get wiser and I do start to pull back and this is where we actually have the gains because when we blow ourselves out and we overtrain, whenwe're not in a state for really strong training, this is when we start to break down emotionally.
Speaker 2
06:41
We start atdistrictbreakdown with the stress levels in our lives and stress is the number one most dangerous thing that we can do to our bodies. Stress is what causes us to get disease. Stress is what causes most of our problems in life. If we can lower our stress levels, then we can knowof the chance that we'll get sick, we will help our immune system rebuild and all of these sort of things that we don't think about when we think just go hard or go home, you know, and like, you know, I'm a hard-ass athlete. I have been my entire life and so as new we're not, we're not softly, softly changeable when B types. Okay. But we are wiser than we were and we were 20 years ago. And we understand the need that we're not, weare not robots and you are not bullet proof and I don't care whether you're dean kinesis or you're David Goggins, you still need to recover in between these bouts of really hard ass life, you know?
Speaker 3
07:40
Well if you hit the nail on the head there as well, it's a, it's often a, I'll say to a lot of people that we're, we're working with and a lot of people we coach one on one lease. Is that, is that use your experiences to your advantage to part of the training plan is, is and should be. What's your history and what's your experience? If you've got experience with doing marathons, half marathons, ultramarathons you can use that to, your advantage hasgotten, as you were just saying, so you've now got experience in doing things. You now know what works and what doesn't. So actuallygo through this daily checklist of subjects you're looking at where you're at. You can really start to create your own rulebookthis, you can start to see and go, right. I know that historically that's what I've done well or that's what I've not done so well.
Speaker 3
08:21
I can now really start to focus on certain areas. If someone is coming in to do their first marathon with us at first half marathon andtheir first ultra marathon, if it's their first one, I want them to hurt a little bit more in training. I'll want to push them a little bit further because we need to not just train them physiologically. We need to train them psychologically as well and prepared them for that. If you're coming off the bat, which a lot of our athletes are multiple events, then a lot of that is already trained so we can, we can now get wise with the training because it doesn't need to hurt so much because that that is already ingrained.
Speaker 2
08:54
Fight through pain. Yeah,
Speaker 3
08:55
Exactly, and then especially that was a fine example iswithwhen with the coaching that I was doing and continue to do with you is is that'sthere. You've got to remember what you already know because that would allow you to go to places that you couldn't, you couldn't have done, you could have done before. The other, the other piece of the puzzle is, is that you, by changing these things, we can change our environment so we can really start to change how our body's responding. If we're adding more hydration in, if we're changing our sleeping environment, that changes our us from a physiological, biological level level as well, which means then all of a sudden results just starts climber. So it's connecting the dots between do all of these things might be a better runner? Yes. Oh, they actually specifically to do with running, not directly, but they getto get an increase in a response in, in performance. So if you want to be wise, start using it, start doing it. Start thinking outside of the square.
Speaker 2
09:49
Yeah. And not just going harder and harder and harder and using those risk phases for exactly that torest to recover. Because that is when you get better. You don't, when you go to the gym or when you go running and you actually braking muscles, you're actually causing microtears and things. So it's not that that's actually causing the improvement. Those kids are there. And then the, it's the body's recovery response, which only happens when you go and sleep and recover and rest and digest and stillwater. That parasympathetic nervous system stuff is when you actually get stronger. So if you just going back to back to back to back smashing yourself, smashing your smell and in thinking that you're going to get stronger andno, you're not going to because you haven't got that balance of oscillating between the parasympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system and we really need that balance and auditor to have those, those breakthroughs and those improvements and notto plateau. Right.
Speaker 3
10:47
Total. Certainly some of the some of the changes youmostwe, we've spoken about the, you've gone for a more sort of bite sized piece of, of Excise Sundays. So rather than doing the long bouts, you've been getting some great results with shorter sort of 10 to 20 minute workouts. Also with how you've been integrating some of somemore of the yoga stuff. Yeah. Your mindset is changed with Coz chatting to you and listen to you. It'sall the benefits you now get from someof your yoga sessions are significantly greater than they wouldhave been a few years ago. Yeah. And you're really starting to feel and see the benefits and then enjoying your runs more when you go for them as a result of it.
Speaker 2
11:20
Yeah. So I had a few years ago and you know, most of us as well heard this perhaps, but total burnout after running through New Zealand and doing this valley and doing all those other crazy Himalayan races. And I was getting to a point where the, I was doing the races and I, I was starting to break. I was just really sick. My body was starting to break down and I wasstarting to get health issues. So major health issues came along. Then of course, mom came along and with her with her major issues. And so my whole life priorities changed around and so I was forced into the situation of having slow or change is a better response. So I couldn't spend 20, 30 hours a week training like I'd done previously. And so that means I could head to go and actually listen to the offerchange, changingculminateand some other things because the stress levels were through the roof.
Speaker 2
12:09
The cortisol was all over the place, the adrenaline, all of those things were just far schools. We talked about the start with load. Theywereallinthe, all in the pullingthe toilet, yet they were absolutely rock bottom. And so I had to start rebuilding my body again and trying to find my health again and let alone my fitness, getting it back up to speed. And so doing by doing a combination of very short, high intensity workouts, like crossfit style stuff and weight training and being in a, in a anabolic state and not just in a catabolic state all the time. And then adding in some Yoga. And which I really found had, by the way. I mean, I've, I've been ajoke, plops life. Yeah. So I was, you know, I, I get the, how I'm controlling the body and movement and youknow, dancing and gymnastics and stuff, but I still found yoga because it's slow and it's very brief controlled and all of those things actually bloody hard.
Speaker 2
13:09
And I know a lot of athletes do. We'd rather go for a run and go to a yoga class. And it takes a shift. You have to do it a number of times until you start to feel the actual benefits of it. And, but the thing that, what yoga does andwhat[inaudible] does or any sort of mobility with massage, all of these things start to get the body out of the sympathetic state into a parasympathetic dominant state. So that means you're shutting down the stress release of, of stress hormones. So your cortisoland your, your adrenaline's and norepinepherine thanyouknow what, all of those sort of stress hormones, which are we need at certain times, but we don't want to be in that state all day. And if we've got a stressful life, then we tend to be in that state all the time.
Speaker 2
13:55
So we, you know, the the excess what is it? The hypothalamus, the Draino. Anyway, it keeps releasing hormones all day. And what that does is that means thatyour like parasympathetic or sympathetic dominant. So you're pushing out all these stress hormones inyour actually slowing down your immune system. You're actually slowing down your digestive processes, you're slowing down the reproduction of new cells being made. Because these are only, these processes are mostly done when we're in a relaxed state. That's why they call it rest and digest sort of a statein the parasympathetic state. And so when you go and do a yoga or meditation or a deep breathing exercise, which sounds like woo, you know, it sounds like, ah, I just want to go and punch a punching bag or run up a mountain because that's the way we program. But if are in a state of stress and we'vegotto be actually encouraging more stress that way.
Speaker 2
14:55
And when we slow down and we go and do a yoga class, what it does is actually tunes off all those stress hormones from being produced and now our body can go into, oh, it's time for going and repairing. It's time for digesting. It's time for sitting my immune system up so that it can ask, go and fight the bad things that are coming in their bodies. And when we don't, and we ignore that for too long, that's when we get sick. That's when we get diseases. That's when we get start to break down mentally and emotionally and physically. And this is why you can't stay in that highly stressed out state without effects. And this is why this balance between the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system is so crucial and you cannot, I've heard, and I've said this in the past before, I don't need to meditate.
Speaker 2
15:38
I go run and running eastinto top of meditation, but it's, it's in the sympathetic state of being and then that is by its own definition, not a recovery state. So it while you, you might be able to clear a lot of crap out of your thinking and you might be able to you know, get your body breathing well and all of that sort of stuff. It isn't arestroom recovery activity going for a walk in the park and enjoying the flowers and nature and the birds singing. Now that will turn your parasympathetic nervous system want. And it can be as simple as that. It can be as simple as going to the scene staring out at the ocean for us andhour these things. Turnour parasympathetic nervous system on and calm the body down and let your body actually do it's repair processes, which actually is, you know, the anti aging, the ND disease, the MD.
Speaker 2
16:31
Everything, you know, it's crucial that we have that oscillation. This is why, you know, everything is as a seesaw. We need to be trying to stay balanced all the time. And that doesn't mean that we can't go and do crazy ass things, but it does mean that afterwards we're going to have to go out and recover and repair. And you know, like we have this conversation with Carlos, so he coachedit running hot coaching and amazing man who's done was doing 12 outros over a hundred kilometers, including a hundred miles in 24 hourrices and Multi Day stage races inside 12 months. And you did that last year. And then this year is having trouble because he's in the recovery phase. And psychologically that causes a lot of stress because we don't, we're used to going hard out, you know, and this is why you know, it takes a psychological shift and it's understanding that you're not letting go. You're not being useless. You're not goingto put on 50 kilos. In fact, the opposite is often true because you're allowing the stress hormones. You probably find that you, if you're carrying a little bit extra weight, Iwantyouto lose it. Doing the yoga, then you are doing the running and all of these things is counter intuitive, isn't it? Next time,
Speaker 3
17:38
Butcertainly counter intuitive in the the, the beauty of what we've put together for all the listeners is that we can now identify with a simple wellness check and a very subjective and easy way in a daily that you can see exactly where you're at. Yeah, you're just getting up you guys through your chatlist and if youchatloose, slow, then we want to do something that, as you rightly say, is going to take us into a parasympathetic system. If you schools are rock and roll, then the they're up there and they're high. Then that's where that's the ultimate aim iswe're like that on a consistent basis and the way we'll get like that on a consistent basis if we get the balance right between parasympathetic. Soitsees as you've been talking about Lisa and sympathetic activities, we get the balance right.
Speaker 3
18:17
And the other thing is as well asunderstands that that is going to be very different for each of us individually. The once you get the balance right and no one, I say this to many people we're coaching, no one knows your body better than you though. So we're here to give you advice. We're here to mentor you, to coachyou, to take you through and teach you, but we're always going to ask you to listen to what your own body's telling you because you are with it every day. You are going to know it better than anyone. Once you start listening to it, it will tell you what you exactly what you need to do to get the best out ofit
Speaker 2
18:45
And not overriding the signals that are coming from your body during the night. Oh and hurts. It's hurting my, my bones are hurting my everything's likingout. Just toughen up and take a teaspoon of concrete and get over it. And there are times when you need to gothere, right? To havethatability, but it's not general, not for general health, you know, not for general health. And that's why the sort of conversations are important for a lot of people. Don't actually hear and understand. And you know if you're a woman, you've got hormones and you've got cycles as another reason why you need to, you know, be on top of what's happening in your cycle and making sure you don't check yourself over the each one way or the other and that you don't get adrenal problems and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2
19:24
So I think this has been a really interesting conversation today. We haven't covered, you know, things in depth here, but if you wantto find out more, if you want to get this wellness check, then reach out to us. You can reach me on this or@leastyourtammany.com. And we've got to put in the show notes, a link to the the guides that we've produced, which is all about how to tell if you're over training or under training and what to do about it. And of course we'd love you to come and join us at running hot coaching. If you want in a holistic run training system that isn't going to burn you out, that isn't going to break you. It isn't gonna end up with injuries necessarily. There's always a few that will creep in when we twist their ankle or whatever. But if you want to be able to prepare your body so that you don't just break down because you're starting to overcook, then come and check out our system, head on over to Lisa tammany.com and she can air running programs. And neo, anything final to add to those words today?
Speaker 3
20:21
Nice spot. And Lisa as always spot on. It's yeah, it's just, it's just doing it. Do it. Take the time to, to have a look at where you're at each day is time well spent. It's a minimal amount of time, a few minutes each day. For me, when I started doing it and we've now started using it with all our all our coaching clients, it just makes the world of difference.
Speaker 2
20:39
Yeah.And, and this is reallyaimedatthose people who are experienced, you know, and who are perhaps getting a little bit older and perhaps doing the same way they've always done them and not listening to the bodies.It's, it'sgenuinelynot the problem of the beginner. The beginner is has to learn to read the body as well, but they need more structure in the program, as Neil was saying earlier, so that they understand how to you know, push through barriers and push through pain and all that sort of stuff. But when you experienced in doing that and you're not getting the results that you should be getting, this might be the reason why. So take that to heart and I hope that that's helped today. So thank you guysandwe'll be back again next week.We'vegotanother great session with Neil I think next week. So stay tuned and as always, please give us a rating and review. Really, really appreciate that. Help us get some exposure on iTunes. You can do that rating and reviewthereor just reach out to us if you've got any questions around running around mindset, around nutrition. We'd love to hear from you Neil and I and the team, so please reach out to us and we'll see you again next week.
Speaker 1
21:44
Thanks,Lisa. That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure torate, review and share with your friends andheadover and visit Lisa and her team, at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
16 Aug 2019
Ep 113: Rachel Grunwell -The Secrets To Being Healthier & Happier
00:44:10
Rachel Grunwell is one of New Zealands' best know health and wellness experts and enthusiastic marathon runner. She is an award-winning journalist and has just released the book Balance: Food, health + Happiness which which features 30 global experts sharing science-backed advice on living healthier and happier.
But Rachel wasn't always a fitness queen. Up until 7 years ago she was a hard hitting investigative journalist and had three small children and was by her own admission extremely unfit. She had never been into any type of sport and thought those people that did all that just had different genes that she did.
But then she was offered a column writing about fitness and health and this led her on an unexpected journey of self discovery and a complete change of lifestyle.
Now Rachel helps others turn their lives around and teaches running, yoga and mindfulness when not writing books and articles. She is also the ambassador for the Achiles Foundation and helps support disabled athletes compete in marathons and other races.
In this interview Lisa and Rachel delve into some of the learnings she discovered through interviewing 30 global leading health, fitness and performance experts from neuroscientists to nutritionists and about her own personal journey.
If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.
All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.
www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group
Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.
Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!
No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.
The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics
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Transcription
Speaker 1: (00:00) Well. Hi everybody. It's Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you tune in for today's show and I'll have a wonderful guest coming up for you, but before I reveal who that is this week, I just wanted to let you know once again, if you want to reach out to me, you can do so. Lisa at Lisatamati.com,if you've got any questions around today's show or any of the past episodes or anything about running fitness, nutrition mindset, epigenetics, any of the things that we like to talk about on the show, then please don't hesitate to reach out to me. You can also check us out on Lisatamati.com that's our main website where we have all our programs listed and you can find out about live retreats and follow our blog. We'd really appreciate you checking out that stuff on there and getting back to us if you need any help with anything. Umow today I have a really amazing interview with one of New Zealand's top, ealth and wellness experts, a lady by the name of Rachel Grunwell. Now, many of you might've heard of Rachel. She's just put out a book called Balance, u,ich I'm going to talk to her about today. Um,e's a mom of three. She was an investigative journalist who tuned them her hand to learning about everything, health, fitness. And when she does something, she does it properly. Does our Rachel. So without further ado, I'd like you to introduce you to Rachel Grunwell.
Speaker 2: (01:25) Yeah, well, hello everybody. It's Lisa Tamti here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again for another fantastic episode. I'm really, really excited about this one. I've got a lady that I've followed for a long time on social media and heard great things about here. So I've got Rachel Grunwell.
(01:40) You should hear that, right? She's on pushing the limits and it's really, really exciting. So, Rachel, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: (01:46) Thanks for having me on, Lisa. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2: (01:49) Well, it's fantastic to have you now for those of you who live under a rock and don't know who Rachel is. Rachel is a journalist and she's also an author and a wellness and health experts. Uand Rachel, I want you to go back and just give us a little bit background about you, your life, your, your, you know, how you got into this because you came from investigative journalism of all things and like you've very, very different so, right. So take it away. Tell us, tell us a little about yourself.
Speaker 3: (02:19) Yeah. So on a previous life, I was a very hard noise journalist for 25 years actually. And I would hope politicians to account and people in power to account. And I really love the industry because you could create incredible change, you know, you could help change policies or help, you know, beyond the door when they needed help and you know, publicly whole people and power to account. And I had a dream to become an award winning journalist and I reached there,which I was very lucky to do.
Speaker 3: (02:55) And I went on to, you know, have family and I still keep as a investigative journalist and I would work out from one day a week to two days to three days. And I had, I worked for some really amazing Editors who just met me and would take,uhow many days a week than I, I could work and build up to after I had my food, some,ufun. It was by luck. And by chance they, I was offered a column, a weekly column,uby the Herald on Sunday and it was a well bang column and I would try and survive all these fitness and health activities every week. And, and I always joke that if at the time I was offered the wine column, I would have believed it. That plays.,So I was, you know, it harm our circuit on, but I never been this kind of fit creature.
Speaker 3: (03:50) And Yeah. So when I was offered the a column, it was, yeah, it was really great cause I thought, yes, please. I'd really like to learn myself. I was really confused about nutrition. I was so unfit. I was really unfit mom, I would struggle to push a pram around the block and look, I was half in path and I found it really difficult. And I thought people who are really fit were like lady Gaga. They were born this way. Seriously though, different base. They had different genes to me and you know, I was such a Guinea pig with it column and you know, I tried juicing diets and got really hangry, hungry, angry. I tried a soup thing,tried dancing and I was worse than a certain politician. I had totally fate., nd I started a run and I started, u, it would've been seven years ago now.
Speaker 3: (04:47) And I really, I just thought I've just got to show up. I've just got to try and I really don't understand this, but I'll just see if I can run a fun run one day. And I started with a 20 minutes walk from routine around the block today, two times a week. And I did that for a few weeks and I hated it. I was kind of a firing John. I was awful. And I, you know, it was really hard and I was there on foot and it was horrible. But I just, I, one thing I'm really good at is just being bloody-minded running. Yeah. Yeah. And especially in your realm. Oh my God. I don't know how you do it. You're like, I be principals really just go one step further than you've been before. And seriously, Ollie. God, yeah. Sorry. I just, I started there and you know, after a few weeks I thought, oh my God, I actually, I can run a little bit longer or I'm doing least walking then then I was before I can run a little bit longer. I, I feel a little bit stronger. Wow. I can really feel less in HD. You can really measure it. That's the coolest thing about running, right, is it you can meet your major, your progress and yeah. So once I could run 25 minutes I went to a PT and I said, look, if you can get me to run 10 k's you or 30 minutes unbroken, you won't be a PT. You'll be an m him. And he's like, what's that? Right. And he's like, miracle. Like you'd be a miracle Micah.
Speaker 3: (06:31) And yeah, and, but I just showed up to training and I just keep going and got stronger and fitter and yeah. And then I did a ten km then a half marathon and then within a year I did my first marathon in. Fast forward to today and I'm about to run my 25th marathon. And a lot of them are give backs, which is guiding disabled athletes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (06:55) That's amazing. We'll get into that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (06:57) And since I've qualified in the industry, so qualified coach, I help people lose weight, get for level life, they love and and a really holistic way. So I don't just help them train or really care about how they're living their lives and how, how to be them best selves and Qualified Yoga teacher minutes in meditation. And there's a cross of passions as you would a little bit similar, like as, I love what you do, cause I've worked with a lot of athletes elite runners to weekend warriors crossfitters dancers to moms, moms and daughters are teaching yoga. And I worked with a lot of big brains teaching mindfulness and meditation and Yoga and stuff now. So that year were the bet athletes, you know, you need to rebalance your body or otherwise you're going to break.
Speaker 2: (07:49) I'm sorry I went to that too. You know, as coaches, you know, we've, we've, you know, like I as an athlete did it all wrong for many, many years of broke myself basically by not having that holistic approach. And it's really important for us to be as conscious as that. We really look at the whole person their whole life and where they're at and how do we keep them forward without, without breaking them, without boon out, without getting lots of injuries and really looking at the whole health and not just their run times, you know. So that's why, you know, our philosophies align really nicely there. And you know, you've, you've touched on meditation and Yoga there. What's your take? I mean, I'm right into meditation and I actually self hypnosis and things like that as well and reprogramming. Have you, how's meditation help you in your life and you know, what's your take on the whole, you know, Yoga, meditation sort of world?
Speaker 3: (08:50) Yeah. So I teach it now at retreats and in, you know, big events with and things like that and what's been really transferable formative for me, like I was the worst and meditator and I had a terrible monkey mind, you know, like my mind was all over the flies and what helped me was just starting small. It's like starting at run journey, right? It's like the first person who prescribed meditation to me gave me 30 minutes and I just went like, oh no, I'm going to do that. Like it was so overwhelming and I just didn't do a minute of it. But the second and I started small and I started slowly and I did a minute, then, you know, he's huge magic in there and I can do that. And that's how I train my mind in mindfulness has been transformative for many and how I live my life.
Speaker 3: (09:44) And, you know, mindfulness just for anyone out there who, who's not,uhugely ensuring whether it's about not being stuck in the past. Sorry, I spent, I wasted a lot of my twenties and thirties,,feeling really angry and upset in stuck about certain things that had happened to me or how people were with me. And I really, yeah, keep too much, I think about pleasing people, but I really hung on to stuff in the past and you can't change anything in the past. So mindfulness is about leading, you know, acknowledging the past,uin , you know, not getting stuck in it. I mean, that's not been,you know, in the future cause you can't control the future. So it's, you know, having this letting go process. Uand yeah, it's just about living in an hour, celebrating the, now, seeing the absolute beauty and magic.
Speaker 2: (10:40) And this is just so crucial. Like our lives are run by our subconscious. And that is always, you know, it with their conscious minds. We are either in the past and we were in in the future. We were always scared of what's going to happen to us or we're anticipating stuff or with, we're upset about what's happened to us in the past and we replaying those, those things with our subconscious programming, controlling 95% of our lives. Say, you know, that we only have a very small processing capacity with our prefrontal cortex and our subconscious is actually doing 95 to 99% of the work. So we can do what we want with their conscious thinking and still not have that breakthrough because the race is happening at another level. And when you do meditation, when you do mindfulness, this is you know, what's really important is about letting go of, of the, of the past and understanding it, not blaming and not staying stuck in that cycle of emotion.
Speaker 2: (11:38) Basically, isn't it break out of those emotional responses? Because otherwise if you're reliving every day a trauma that you had in your childhood or your past at some stage, then your body is experiencing all of that pain every damn week, you know, and every day and only doesn't know the difference between a, that was 10 years ago or what is right now. It's having those same reactions. And so we get stuck. And this is where I saying, you know, the, the meditation, the deep breathing and it's, it's totally not woo woo , is it Rachel? It's not just
Speaker 3: (12:12) No art science back and really heavily, sorry. So, you know, psychologists prescribe mindfulness, it's in the workplace. Like I w I worked with a lot of corporates in this field and they now are really welcoming that transition to understanding the science and these disciplines. And yet it is so, transformative. And you know, part of it's getting older and a bit wiser and you know, wow. But you know, like how you choose to experience the world, it's such a big thing. You don't get to choose what happens around you or how other people behave, but you always get to choose how you show up and, and you know, I like you, you know, energy goes way energy flows. And so like, I want to put my energy into really good things and positive things. Chase dreams get shut down. You know,
Speaker 2: (13:12) I mean to go from seeing, you know, within, within seven years, I mean, being as hard-hitting journalist to now being a wellness expert and a fitness expert and having run nearly 25 marathons that's a massive transformation. Well, bringing up three children and writing a book. I mean and I mean on the book journey, like let's, let's go there for a little bit because often the model of my third book and to go balance, everyone listening or watching this on the video, you can say, write to his book balance. It's a hell of a journey to get a book out. Isn't that right? Show?
Speaker 3: (13:48) Oh my God, it's s hard I can't relate up to your third, like one seriously almost broke me.
Speaker 2: (13:57) Well that's one of my third one is excellent. You was breaking Beta. I wasn't an ultra marathon runner chapter. I like it.
Speaker 3: (14:04) Yeah. Yeah. You know, the insurance tastes thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (14:07) So how did you always come about and what is your book about and tell us a little bit about the interviews and things that you've got on the consumer interested to, to find out all about that.
Speaker 3: (14:16) Yeah, sorry. It's cool. Balance, food, health and happiness and it's like this ducky beautiful blue color and just really simple and design. So a lot of main rating. So that's not candy, floss, pink and color. I really love that because I work, you know, as a coach and Yogi and things I work with mean and woman. And so I, I'm sorry, plays a designer's. We with a beautiful clean design. So how it came about was I have still kept it writing arm, sorry, I'm a wellness columnist for magazine and also indulge magazine and one of those goes on the Herald online every week. And I'm so a blogger with a lot of brands and things, I've kept it writing on going as well as well as the wellness work. And over the years I'm sort of lucky because I get to interview some of the beast minds in the wellness industry, you know, nutrition, fitness, movement,umindset, a lot of the most amazing minds, not only in New Zealand, but throughout the world.
Speaker 3: (15:22) And my journalism background as suits me really well because you know, there's the writing craft, but also, you know, the question, you know, having those, the curiosity with questions and things. And so, yeah, we took a publish a couple of years ago. I got a publishing deal. I feel very grateful for that. So hard to get there. And it's based on footie experts from throughout the world. Sharing science stacks wellness, wisdom and all the kind of categories like psychology, neuroscience is for nutritionists and the the you know, these doctors in the air, there's researchers and you know, there's a neuroscientist on the who works with all blacks, our top rowers in Formula One racing car drivers to perform at the beast everyday. Kiwis can use those pillows to live their best lives these amazing stuff on emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3: (16:22) Like, you know, how to relate better with kids, with friends, with colleagues to be a better human I guess. And you know, there's also 30 recipes, so 30 experts and 30 recipes. So there's a lot of you know, there's like a great beetroot juice on there for runners actually because I'm such a patient at runner there's even like the exercise high explained to me by doctor and like what's going on in your brain. And there's, you know, some core science concepts in there as well, like flow, which is a secret to a life worth living is finding flow. And you know, you and I know how to find it through running. And they were at such a gift we can access, cause you know, it helps as the yogurt. That's when you lost in the moment. You are immersed in the doing, you've got this reasonably high skill set. And so, you know, we can just run and get lost in the moment and it's moving meditation,
Speaker 2: (17:25) It flows state as something I've studied. Have you read the book? Stealing fire tonight, fantastic book. Being able to tap into flow states and what flow states are. And I think that's a really important part of, I mean I have flow states like when I'm, I'm a journalist, so I create, you know, jewelry I haven't been doing as much lately because I'm so busy with, with things. And I miss that being in that state where I, you know, five hours go by and I, and I, and I've not even notice because I'm just in the creative process. And it takes a while to get in there and you know, but it's, it's something that's just fantastically, you know, that you're actually doing what you are, you know, made to do, so to speak. And you can get that running. You can get that role acting. Depends on what your thing is, but finding that flow state, it really pulls out the beast in you. This is when you're actually in your genius. Okay.
Speaker 3: (18:22) Yeah. It's honestly, it's the psychologist who came up with a term called it Kale. I think you know, it's a secret total life worth living. Like if you can find your flow state, whether it's making jewellery, whether it's, you know, I'm getting lost in the moment doing netting or you know, even surgeons can find flow doing surgery, they are immersed in the moment and they won't even notice like music hall on the room. They don't like just lost in the moment in the, in the doing though you can say it. Great. Great. Yeah, sorry. And I find my flow state, you know, through music as well. Also saxophone. It's like, music's really cool. And even if you love listening to music, Oh my God. And like mix music you know, great place it where you're running.
Speaker 2: (19:15) Absolutely. I mean, yeah, my husband's a museum and it's just like I just watch him and instantly go into a flow state when he's playing his guitar and stuff. And He, I could be yelling at him that Dennis was not hearing anything cause he's [inaudible]
Speaker 2: (19:32) Cause mining, but you'd think he'd come for food, but he just, he's just in a different world. And, and unlike in VM that, you know, like I know I don't have a musical instrument. So,uthat, that's just a beautiful thing to watch. And this is when humans are at the highest potential. And if we can spend at least a little bit of time everyday in that state, in, we were much happier as humans. I, yeah. And we're choosing what we want to. Yeah. I wanted to sort of, mou know, taken a left hand turn in the road and talk a little bit about, our work with Achilles and your, you know, giving back to, u,rough your running. Um, I know we actually meet through our mutual friend Ian Walker, uwho has been on the show before. Absolutely. I, Rachel, just amazing man. Ian was hit by a truck years ago while he was out and on his bike and
Speaker 3: (20:27) And he was an amazing marathonner. I mean like really fast marathon.
Speaker 2: (20:35) Yeah. Walk in the wheelchair and in any back to doing marathons in is a hand bike and so on. Absolutely amazing story. And then you get hit by another, a truck., I think it was a while out on his hand bike and he's ahead head to go back and he's actually even further up paralyzed now and I don't know the technical term, but it's further up the back, basically a quadriplegic now and he's fighting back again. And he just absolutely blows my mind whenever I'm feeling down about, you know, I can't run as fast as I used to run as far or whatever. I think about Ian and I thinking about, you know, get over yourself and you've had the privilege of traveling to the New York marathon with Ian and the Achilles crew. Tell us a little about you, your work with [Achilles and how it has worked out for you.
Speaker 3: (21:24) Sorry. It was really special being on that trip with Ian Actually and we forged this incredible friendship from that time and with [inaudible] it science like, you know, cure very much about 'em and you know, it's just a great mate and yeah, I love hanging out with him. Yeah. He inspires me hugely with his capacity to train and I love his determination to, to want to do well on these races. And you know, he's an amazing hand cycle athlete and yeah, really, really awesome to have a minute. [inaudible] And yeah, so I'm going to bet though for Kelly's something I'm really proud of and I've helped quite a lot of different athletes over the years. So just quickly for any viewer listeners who don't know what I can use as about we just help anyone with any kind of disability or barrier to participate in running kind of events.
Speaker 3: (22:20) So half marathons fund runs marathons and I've gotten through quite a lot of races over the years and yeah, I love, I love being part of that charity in just about to take someone to New York visually appeared go with a spirit just as well gonna help you throw New York marathon learn and also Sydney half marathon. So not helper Tom Idi another inspiring athletes. But yeah, just, you know, like it's a hot connected thing. Like it's amazing to run your own rice lightly. You know, it's incredible to like to be chasing a time or just to be out there running your own race, but to help someone else that the drain. How about lifting and wonderful and you work, you connect it for ever and you know, through the tears and snot at the finish line. But to ne
Speaker 2: (23:21) You're really emotionally already, your, your in you, he just, some way he was with one of your race lights. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (23:27) There's a lot of pride through and you know, I, I've done enough races now and you know, qualified as a coach and I think one of my biggest gifts to share in their charity is to get them through to the finish line and a pretty good state in. So I know when they need to back. I know when they need to fuel, I know when they're, you know, they're on their mind struggle and you know, just helping them through those different stages and yeah, it's wonderful to share.
Speaker 2: (23:58) Absolutely. My [inaudible] and this would be, you know, like this is, this is so grateful, not just with disabled, escalate athletes and not just, wouldn't it be fabulous to have someone like that that got talkies through everything in life, you know?
Speaker 3: (24:12) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, if you got a card, she gonna get to your goal. A goal smarter and faster. Yeah. Like everything in life, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: (24:23) I mean, you know, we buy and, but honestly, all cost speed. The spent the first 10 years of my ultra marathon career without a coach. Back then there wasn't really anybody that knew too much about ultra marathoning and in the area that I was in and all the mistakes, the injuries, the burnout that the horrific stuff that you did all wrong that you could've saved yourself. And then, you know, Neil Wagstaff, who's now my business partner at running hot coaching, ou know, like he just flipped everything on its head and I had the base performances and you know, we've had, you know, lifelong friendship and now business relationship. Umnd it, it's just like, Oh man, you, you shortcut the process. Why reinvent the wheel? And now in every area of life I search out, and this is one of the selfish reasons I do this podcast, is because I get to meet people like you and, and other amazing people who have done incredible things. And I get to learn, this is my way of learning. As much as there's a selfish aspect of us
Speaker 3: (25:27) Could learn so much from you too, Lisa.
Speaker 2: (25:33) Oh, well hiey Yeah. Well let's go there. I'll get you through to an ultramarathon. Oh my God. Fabulous. I'll teach you up on that. Or if you, if you kind of, I'll help you get to the next distance. ,But coming back to the Achilles, you know, like helping other people. It doesn't matter if a disabled people or,uit just, it's just so you, you get out of your own skin, don't you? When you, when I of even in the middle of a running race, I've been doing ultramarathons and middle of deserts or something. And you're just like dying. And you know, sometimes, literally and sometimes just feeling like it. And then you come across somebody who is in deeper trouble than you. Instantly you forget your own suffering and you're there for them. And then you help them through their crisis and youth and the time flies.
Speaker 2: (26:26) Once again, you're in a flow state because you're actually focused on somebody else. You're outside of your own Missouri. And then you know that saying pain is not optional, but suffering is, and it is like when you, when you understand how to switch, and I'm not saying it's easy, but when you actually on, in your case I'm someone with a visual impairment or in a wheelchair or something and you're helping them fight the battle and you can see how massive that bale is, it makes you feel like, well, what am I complaining about? My sore legs and lackluster on my tire. You know, that it's not as bad as what my friend is going through and it lessens your suffering and it gives you a complete new perspective on life, I think.
Speaker 3: (27:05) Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we would get by in this world, depending on the barriers that we place on ourselves and the not barriers that others put in front of us, the ones that we've put in front of ourselves and I case the isolates who has, you know, real disabilities, they inspire me. So, you know, people, the rest of the world sees it as me helping them. And but actually it just, they end up becoming, you know, my friends and a lot of them are like family to me. Like I care about them that much and yeah. And,
Speaker 3: (27:48) Yeah. Yeah. They inspire me and I think, look, you know, they can't see, they're not living their barriers and on the way and actually win. You know, it's a, it's a good lesson to share. It's like, you know, what, what barriers are in your way and how are you allowing them to a feature. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (28:07) It's fantastic. Right? Joy. And I hope you continue to do that. And you know, to people like Ian Walker that just for me, they're my role models, you know, that is, and, and I mean, I don't know if you know my situation, the listeners who listen to my show, not, but my mom had an aneurysm three years ago. So working with her on a day to day basis and your rehabilitation and you know, with of disabilities,
Speaker 3: (28:29) Oh, it's amazing what you've done.
Speaker 2: (28:31) Yeah. Like she's just incredible. But it's given me a complete new perspective on, on life and what we're capable of and that replaced with an s selves. And you know, it's not that it's an easy thing to go through and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but by the same token, I'm, I'm always, when I have adversity, I try to find the silver lining, the, the, the lessons, the learnings, what, what, how has this helped me and how has this been an advantage? And this journey has just shown me so, so much about everything like to perspective, you know, like for here, you know, here's me moaning. I can't run, I can't run my a hundred k's anymore or my 200 k's or whatever, you know, why was me my life's over? Because you're the athlete who's always been able to do these sort of things and then you're looking at a person who can't stand.
Speaker 2: (29:23) We can't take a single step or can't even sit properly. And you sort of just relativizes everything in your life. And it's a really good reminder to have things like that. You know, in your mind, in your mind's eye to just, you know, okay, you're not a, you know, you're never got to meet Usain bolt when you're never going to be pulling a red cliff who case get out there and done stuff anyway, you know, do what you can do. Don't be miserable for the fact that, oh, I used to. And as a coach we get a lot of people. I used to be able to do this and now I can't and I'm trying to get them to let go of the past and just be here now. And once again, we limit ourselves sometimes by the achievements that we've had in the past in turning that around in a hate to go, okay, I've had an accident.
Speaker 2: (30:11) Like Ian, you know, he, he, he'd gotten to being so good and then he was head again and then he's had to start from scratch again. That just absolutely blows my mind that he would get up again and fight again, you know and knowing how long that, that journey is. So yeah, I think, I think the work that you're doing is wonderful. So Rachel, what w talk to us a little bit about your change in your nutrition side and things like that. What do you, what sort of advice did you get out of doing the book or what learnings have you had on the, on the nutrition side of things?
Speaker 3: (30:49) Yeah, sorry, I, you qualified to PT level to level five. So there's a really nice underpinning of our new national guidelines and you know, how w how we should be feeling about days. I'm actually personally quiet low carb, healthy fat almost, But I do like some,good ciabatta bread. It was great mornings on top, so I'm not perfectionist. Actually, you know, my book is called balance because I believe in all things in life and balance. Uhort of. I drink coffee, I drink wine, love of beer with a mate. Umnd I eat chocolate. I love chocolate. But you know, I think some 90% of my food is actually a pretty good and you know, it's about putting in an amazing fuel, mating nutrients. Uhut it's got to taste good. So for years and years now, I've been designing, healthy recipients for good magazine.
Speaker 3: (31:47) And so why I put a city recipes and balance because I often talk about like the hero ingredients and how they feel your body and how the magic, you know, they bring about like Avocados you know, great for beautiful like, you know, eat for vanity as well. And these actually for runners,uyou know, there's some cold smoothies on here and what I hate is smoothies that tastes like swamp water I like food. I love food. I love fruit too much. So if you can, you know, eat or drink anything. , T's got to taste good in the assemble. Awesome. Umo there's a chocolate, a smoothie bowl.
Speaker 2: (32:35) Oh, very. Oh my God. That looks great
Speaker 3: (32:37) And so I think it's actually really amazing for your scan there. Sorry. And delicious nutrient dense. Am I saying? But these are great. A by trick drew some here, which is amazing. It's you, all the runners I know. A hugely of victory juice. Yup. Totally bomb into my truth. Yeah. So there's some great,uParse Rum,upar states, the size of smoothies and juices and snacks and stuff like that. And the,,and again, it's just kind of weaving in the stories of, you know, or what to eat and drink to, to feel amazing, but to look amazing. And some of the science behind why,you know, there's some really cool stuff around in fasting right now, you know, long,
Speaker 2: (33:26) Really important that you, you enjoy your food and it's not just all, you know, horrible. You know, like I do get up in the morning and have this most awful, awful whole litre of vegetable juice, basically with everything from celery to, to lemon juice to, you know, turmeric and stuff. But that, you know, and that gives me my good start to the day, but then I don't want to have all my food like tasting right. And they don't want to. Yeah. We'll enjoy.
Speaker 3: (33:54) Yeah. So, yeah, I am, yeah. Often is like four ingredients and a smoothie and that we really need nutritious and really good for you. Uand like some of the experts in the book, they really cold, like naughty 11 talks about, you know, banging and the whole orange She's like, you just, you know, being in all the nutrients, that's pretty quick and easy, you know, question. Umnd Sarah Wilson as in my boyfriend, she's fraught. She's the, I quit sugar queen. She's one of the largest, hike true hundred top authors in the world. Uhhe's amazing and she's put out all these incredible, m0 books. Umnd yeah, she talks about, you know, sustainability and my book actually not so much about food but umome awesome sustainability. Heck and but she's about using everything in the food, you know, like he gets celery, use the white butts, use the leaves, like use the whole damn thing, like you've paid for it and it's all nutrition. And so sorry. Yeah, it's kind of changed how I look at food. Umnd quite a few different ways like hearing about where it's coming from, how it feels, my body. Like it affects how you, you think and how you feel. It's like movement, right? Umovement affects and rewires your brain. So you know, you get incredible energy levels and you know, creativity and, and yeah. Your whole sense of how you show up in the world as linked to, you know, how you think, how you feel, how you move, what you eat.
Speaker 2: (35:28) I'm not, I'm not like, it's really like when you understand the science behind things, you're more likely to do it. I find for me, you know, when I was told years ago to do to meditate and I was like, well, when I run, I meditate. You know, I can't stay in Still, , let's stay in the difference between, use it as a type of flow state and so on. But it's, there's a need for the other part of me, the meditation and why and how that quieting of the mind and checking into the, you know, the parasympathetic nervous system. And when you're running, you're in the sympathetic nervous system so that it's not going to, you know, create that balance. And when you understand a little of a science, I find it's far more interesting to actually do it. Then you get, you get why you're doing it and it gives you that, not just that, well, the your head to do this and you don't know why. I mean, maybe like learning maths as a kid and going, what the hell am I ever gonna have to work out all this stuff? It's a lot of inapplicable stuff to my life. You know? I've got to say that if they explained to me how it applies, if you want to build some, I don't know, a wall, you have to understand all this mess, then I might've gone, oh, okay, I'll get it now while I'm doing this
Speaker 2: (36:37) U so I think understanding and doing that research is really important. Now. Rachel, we'll, we'll wrap it up in a moment. I just want to, to give you the full from a moment to what is your main message? What do you, what does Rachel stand for? What do you want to get out into the world? What's your big message, and I'm putting on the spot, but what, you know, if there's one, two or three things that you just really desperately wanted to share with the audience today, what would those be?
Speaker 3: (37:04) I guess love, life and balance and least perfectionism. I thought about progression a, be really kind on yourself. We start hard on ourselves to be perfect. Sorry. There's this kind of process of letting go and like, I'm my mission in life to it as inspire, Kiwis or inspire anyone to, to live healthier and happier and yeah. Like, look, I'd love everyone to read my book. And you know, it's not an ego-driven thing. It was for a long time as a journalist, I really wanted to, to be an author, but when it came to doing my book, it needed to be a whole lot more than that. Like for anyone to actually spend money on my book. I wanted to be incredibly proud of it, but I actually want it to it to authentically, like genuinely help people. So I brought together the best minds who helped change my life to be a lot healthier and happier. I'm more, you know, got way more emotional intelligence than I ever had. I'm still working on that. But yeah, these people in the bark are amazing. And like, even if you read one chapter and it changes your household, happiness is incredible magic in there. So, yeah, during read it, connect with my, I love it.
Speaker 2: (38:30) Yeah. And that that is so important. Rachel, you know, when you, when, when you know you're in I's office know how much you go through to get a book out. People would not believe how hard it is to get a book out in what you, you know, it cannot be about your ego and you want to sell millions of copies cause that's a dream that's not gonna happen. Generally you know it, you have to be thinking about the individuals that are reading this book and that it's gonna really impact the life. And you are talking for the next what the stuff about that sudden your book. So Rachel, where can people get your book? It's available in the book scores as well as on your website.
Speaker 3: (39:07) Yeah Sir. It's on my website and spot health.co. Dot. NZ. If you want a signed copy, but it's actually in paper Plas crows or wherever you are in the world. It's on Amazon U K or book deposit. Trey just Google it. You'd be able to find it and it's great. It's a great gift for like an old woman. And the, the beauty of it is it's, yeah, just read one chapter. Like it's not a novel. You don't have to read the whole thing. If you're not into yoga, please don't read the architecture. But if you're into, you know, how the science of the feminist high works which is really fascinating. [inaudible]. Or how to live your base life or how to have, you know, five layers of listening so you can actually listen. Well, that was quite transformative for me. Just read that chapter. And yeah, connect with me on Instagram, which is just my name, Rachel Grunwell.
Speaker 3: (40:02) Well my Facebook pages is fine. Health inZ age. Uyeah, connect with me. I love, I love those communities. I am really connected. And,uthe last thing I just wanted to, she was,uI did have a massive crisis of confidence,uhalfway through writing the book. It was two year journey and I almost walked away from it. UI was an award winning journalist, but I, yeah, I just had this really tricky time in my life and art. One more skive out. And, you know, you hit the self talk going on. I'm not good enough. Like I'm not, you know, I'm not as good as my friends who are amazing writers. Uand I had a really tricky time and are really vulnerable stage. I almost walked away. I had a publishing deal for Christ's sake. I'm sorry if I what's it so glad you did it. Yeah. And sorry mater it was, it was my biggest dream, right? And Yeah. And it was frightening to do it. And I think you've just gotta be bribed and follow through on your dreams. Don't give up on them. And I'm so glad I didn't. I love my book and so proud of it. And I feel emotional. Every diamond I get messages from riders. Ubut yeah, my message to anyone out there don't ever give up on your dream. And I know you're all about that, Lisa.
Speaker 2: (41:21) Absolutely. And say, I hope people are listening. Cause you know, you look at Rachel Grandma and you think, wow, beautiful, amazing three children, Super Korea bought Blah retreats and you got, and a lot of were lot of people that's intimidating, right? And they look at it and go, well I couldn't even do that. But when they hear from some people like you saying, you know, I nearly didn't make it with the sport, I struggle with this or I have problems with that and people realize you, like you said at the very beginning of this and can you, I thought people who did health and fitness and sport, just different genes,
Speaker 2: (41:56) No, all have different things. They did Dweck and I, one of the main themes running through this interview today, which I already picked out again and again and again in your talking was to start small and do something every day towards your goal of think, if I could sum up this whole interview, it would be, there is one, you know, takeaway is break things down and then when it seems overwhelming, just do a tiny little bit today. And you obviously did that with the book and I congratulate you on getting that book out because I know what a mess of journey it is. I'm still in the deep deck going, how the Hell I was, this and that. But it will, and I have enough experience down in there that I will eventually get through. And there's a lot of tears, is a lot of love, so we can tease that goes into these, into these box. So I do encourage you guys to go out there and grab Rachel's Book. You're obviously not going to regret it. Rachel, thank you so much for being on the show today. So go to inspired health.co. Dot. NZ. That's right.
Speaker 3: (42:56) Yeah. And you can find out all about the broken, like read who the experts are involved on anxiety and personal on depression. Like the experts are really cool when other top happiness researchers in the world. And you know, I did ear guitar when he said he'd be involved. Thank God he couldn't see
Speaker 2: (43:14) A read them and then try and try and get these people with someone on the podcast. So, you know, thank you very much for this as farm talk today. Rachel, I wish you well in your new business, in Davis, in the, in the work that you're doing and with your Achilles people. My love to you and thank you very much for being on the show today. It's been awesome.
Speaker 3: (43:31) Thank you so much. You inspire me. So thank you.
Speaker 1: (43:36) That's it This week for pushing the limits. Thanks so much for stopping by and we really hope you enjoyed that interview. If you could do us a favour and please do a rating and review on iTunes, that would help the show immensely. We love getting feedback from our listeners,and it really helps the show get exposure. So if possible do us a really big favour, please make sure you go and do a rating and review in subscribe, and please share this content as well with your networks. If you could do that for us, would be very appreciative and we'll see you again next week. Thank you very much.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
11 Jun 2020
The changing face of medicine - an integrated approach with Dr Tim Ewer
01:04:58
In this interview Lisa talks to Dr Tim Ewer an integrated medical practitioner about his approach to medicine some of the complementary therapies he uses besides conventional allopathic medicine and what exciting research is happening around the world - they get into everything from laser therapy to light therapy to hyperbaric oxygen therapy and beyond.
Dr Tim concentrates on individual and personalised patient care and combines the best of current western medical practices with evidence-based traditional and complementary medicines and practices.
Integrative medicine takes into account the physical, psychological, social and spiritual wellbeing of the person with the aim of using the most appropriate and safe evidence-based treatments.
Lisa sees this integrated approach and open minded attitude that is constantly looking at the latest research and technologies and that focuses on the root causes and on optimal health rather than disease as being the way of the future.
Dr Tim's Bio in brief
Dr Tim Ewer (MB ChB, MMedSc, MRCP, FRACP, FRNZCGP, DCH, DRCOG, Dip Occ Med, FACNEM) is vocationally qualified as a physician and general practitioner. Tim has been working as a specialist in integrative medicine for the last 30 years, before which he was a hospital physician for 10 years after gaining his medical degree and specialist qualifications in the UK.
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.
Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:
"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."
—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.
"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."
—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:12) Well, hi everyone. And welcome back to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you this week. I have dr. Tim Ewer, who has an integrated medical practitioner and physician who is based on the beautiful region of in the South Island of New Zealand. And Dr. Tim came to my attention because he has a really an amazing hyperbaric facility in this area. He used to work at the Christchurch hospitals and he's a hyperbaric trying to doctor he's also does a lot of complimentary and integrated medical approaches. So looking at everything from Eastern medicine through to, you know, acupuncture through to laser therapy. And in this conversation today, we have a good real in depth. Talk about where, you know, things are going some of the greatest and latest research and technologies that are coming on stream and some of the exciting developments and his approach to healing people and helping people.
Speaker 2: (01:09) I just like to remind you, before I hand over to Dr. Tim my book relentless is now available in stores right throughout New Zealand. It's also available worldwide on Amazon, on audio books. It's in my website at lisatamati.com. I'd love you to go and check that out. And the book is titled relentless. And as the story of bringing my mum back after a mess of aneurysm and being told that she would never do anything again, and this was our journey back, it's a really insightful book that looks at the mindset of overcoming massive challenges. And I really love you to go and read that and to share that with your networks as well. Lastly, before I go, I'd like you to also follow me on Instagram. I'm quite active on Instagram and on my YouTube channel as well. Have over 600 videos on the YouTube channel and including a whole lot of my documentaries that I made from my beaches around the world. If you want to have a look at the YouTube channel that's just it just search for Lisa Tamati on YouTube, and that will come up and on Instagram, it's @lisatamati right now over to Dr. Tim Ewer and of the mapper health center in mapper.
Speaker 2: (02:23) Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show this week, I have a special guest, dr. Tim Ewer, Dr. Tim is sitting down and mapper and the views of DePaul sort of Nelson area. How you doing dr. Tim
Speaker 3: (02:36) Very well. Thank you strangely a rainy day to day, but that's probably the rest of New Zealand a bit rainy. And normally it's always sunny here.
Speaker 2: (02:46) Very sunny place. I was just saying I used to live down there for a few months when I was picking apples back in my young years, and it was hard work, but I'm very a beautiful area to live in. So yeah, you live in a piece of paradise doctor you are as an integrated medical professional and has a hyperbaric clinic down down that way. I don't want it to get dr. tim To talk to, I don't know if we have a doctor, Tim doctor, you are, what would you prefer? I've got to go back to share a little bit about the work that you do and talk about traumatic brain injury in particular as an area that is obviously my interest with my mum's story. So can you give us a little bit of background, your background and how you got into doing what you're doing and the integrative and hyperbaric side of things?
Speaker 3: (03:41) Sure. I guess my story from that point of view, start it off. I'm originally from England. So I trained in England at one of the English universities. And even when I finished my training and I'd come out with distinctions and all of those sorts of things I thought there must be more to what medicine's about or what health is about. Let's say than what I have been told. And ever since then, I've been looking to find other ways to, to improve people's wellbeing. So I continued on with my specialist training became what's called a specialist physician. But at the same time, I would sneak off at weekends and go to the London college of acupuncture and learned acupuncture. And I learned medical hypnosis, and I ended up studying nutrition and some homeopathy and a variety of different things, including bioenergetic medicines over the years, of course I spent a bit of time working in hospital as a specialist.
Speaker 3: (04:45) And that's actually where I came across hyperbaric medicine. That was in Christchurch where they had a big hospital. I was working in the hospital as a specialist and they had a big hyperbaric chamber there. So I spent seven years helping to run that we did it free and we spent our weekends or nighttime sometimes helping people with the Benz and carbon monoxide poisoning and all sorts of things like that. And at that point, I had a little bit of an existential crisis and decided that I wanted to leave the hospital side and develop my own integrative clinic, which I did. So we're going back 20 or more years now. Wow. And I moved up to this beautiful area and now in, and found a little place to work from and thought, well, if everything goes well, people will eventually just come to me and find me.
Speaker 3: (05:35) And that's really what's happened. I started off way back then with just myself and a wonderful Mary receptionist. And now we have 23 staff and that part of the clinic so much so that I've now moved across the road to have a separate integrative clinic so that I can continue to just doing what I like to do with a couple of nurses and myself and two other integrative doctors and an integrative psychologist and these sort of people. So it was a matter of pulling things together over time to, to have a variety of options for people, a variety of it in a way of languages, how to understand disease and wellness. And what I've found over all of those years is that there isn't necessarily, as, as the great sages have often said, there's many paths to the top of the mountain. So it's a matter of finding the right one for each person versus a lot of Western medicine, which is very much scripted in terms of you have this diagnosis, you have this treatment versus you are this person with this variety of different things going on in your life.
Speaker 3: (06:54) How can we find ways of getting either balance or detoxed or whatever needs to happen in that process to get it back towards house.
Speaker 2: (07:06) So it's sort of looking more towards the root causes and, and as opposed to dealing just with symptoms and looking a little bit outside the box, did you, did you cop a lot of flack for that in the early days with, you know, coming from their sort of allopathic, conventional medicine world and, and looking then at things like acupuncture and you know, things that are outside of the, the standard box, if you like, has it been a difficult road or a in, have you seen that change over the last few years?
Speaker 3: (07:42) It's a good question. I think originally I had to do it secretly and it wasn't approved and it was separate too. And I had to, I had to have two different lives as sort of Jekyll and Hyde components going on and you can decide, which is which out of mainstream or holistic. And so that was kind of difficult. But over the years what I found is if I started applying some of these techniques and people simply started getting better my colleagues would say, well, what are you doing? You know, what's, what's happening to those people that don't normally get better and now they're getting better. So that started me, gave me the opportunity to start talking about some of the things I did, but to be honest, while working in the hospital environment, it was quite difficult. So it wasn't until I moved up and started my own separate clinic that it gave me much more space, if you like to practice other things. However, I will say that the conservative elements of the mainstream still quite antagonistic to some of the things that we like to do in integrative medicine. And so there is that sense of walking along the brief tight wire, some of the times and having to basically practice really good medicine in a mainstream way, plus all the other things of both sides.
Speaker 2: (09:17) Yeah. Being brilliant in both sides of that. So yeah, I, I mean, I th I see as a, someone who's come, not from a medical background but had a few issues along the way, shall we say, and going, okay, this isn't working, I'm going to look outside the box for myself. And having, you know, a couple of, with my mum, with myself with my brothers some very great success in, in looking outside the box. And I see a a massive movement of, of change and change in mentality now because we have access via the internet and the, and the stuff that we have available by a pub med and all those sort of great places where you can go and do your own research, that it's no longer completely controllable what what we do. And we can take ownership more, and we have the ability to take more ownership that we didn't have when we didn't have the internet and the ability to access great minds and great people and great research and the information that's coming out, you know, on a daily basis.
Speaker 2: (10:25) I mean, no person on earth can stay up with it all. It's just so much. So if you wanting to do your own deep dive into a certain area, you can certainly find yourself down some very deep rabbit holes and becoming quite expert in a, in a, in a narrow field that you're trying to research. And do you see that in the people that are coming to you, that there is a shift in the people that are starting to come to you and say, Hey, I've seen this, I've heard about this, I've read about this as this something that's gonna help me. And people taking more ownership in that, in the, in the clientele that you sort of have,
Speaker 3: (10:59) I think you're right. I mean, we're part of a informational revolution that's going on at the moment. I did say it's escalating all the time and it's growing and growing, which is a wonderful thing. Most of the time, it's the song, which is either contused or fake news, as they say. And I think being well-informed as the main thing, a lot of this, it is about helping a person become informed about what's going on. And so they can then take more control over themselves because they understand what it's about. And so that's the journey in a sense, it's helping to understand the person to some extent, walking in their shoes a wee bit to see, okay, what's going on? How can I put this together and express it back in a way where that person can make the right changes to bring about what they need to do?
Speaker 3: (11:51) That's an edge, a very general of looking at it. Sometimes I had a great example this week of a person who came in a woman who was in her forties. She was well educated, but she had a whole selection of what, in Western medicine, we might consider the bizarre symptoms from neurological ones to skin, to all sorts of things. And she'd seen urologists and various people, and they'd all been scratching their heads about what's going on. She's obviously not, well, we can't put it together. But I said, look, why don't we, why don't we try a different language for this? And I then talked about the whole concept of low kidney energy and how it related to her tinnitus to her lack of mental agility to all sorts of components. And it's not to say it was just a way of bringing a whole raft of things together in a way that had a sense to it, rather than a sort of chaos, that, that chaos can be very unsettling and you don't know how to make sense. And particularly the experts can't make sense of it. Then you're kind of stuck with what the heck's going on. I might just going mad and, and she wasn't, she was just having a whole series of different things, which we could start bringing together under an umbrella of understanding. And even though we didn't have to use TCM as part of the treatment necessarily it gave it, she felt so much more at ease by the end of that, with an explanation that seemed to bring things together.
Speaker 2: (13:36) Yeah. And it enabled her to maybe take a new approach to the way, say if you're getting disparate sort of information. Cause it was really hard when you're looking at sometimes your, your symptoms and then trying to go, well, where is this coming from? And what is it, you know? And it could be a myriad of things and trying to piece it together. You must have an incredible brain to be able to hold all of these, facets it without any sort of contradicting you know, dogmas even with an, in the knowledge that you have. Do you find that a bit of a juggling act at times,
Speaker 3: (14:14) Strangely enough, not much. There are various possibilities for that. One is if you're into astrology, I'm a Gemini. I'm not a great, astrologist mind you, but there's two of me. And so we can talk to each other. I was brought up in a way where I, interestingly I don't want to get into my personal background particularly, but at one point I was went to a very expensive English school, but I actually stayed with my mother in a council house in a really poor area. So I went from one group of, in the morning to another one in the evening. Wow. And you had to talk the language of both. Yeah, yeah. To work it through. And I think that a sense of dance of life is good because it makes one, I'm able to cope with lots of different things at the same time, try and bring them together
Speaker 2: (15:15) And being able to relate to people. It was, it wouldn't be a brilliant training and being able to be on every level and, and talk to people and communicate and, you know having this wealth of knowledge from all of these different disciplines and science areas, it must be very, you know, like to have that broad spectrum integrated approach. I think, you know, I wish there were more doctors available in New Zealand. There was, you know, we were starting to see more functional and integrated practitioners coming out and then you've got, you know, your, your whole health coach coaching in different areas. But it's a, it's a, certainly a changing world. And I'm hoping that there was going to be some change hopefully in the mainstream.
Speaker 3: (16:02) Yeah. I mean, I've put up a little plugin and I may about those an organization called Amer the Australasian integrative medicine association, which is a mix of both doctors who do integrative medicine and also other health practitioners. And so on their websites, you can often get information about integrated doctors around New Zealand and Australia.
Speaker 2: (16:25) Fabulous. That's a really good tip. I'll put that in the, in the show,
Speaker 3: (16:30) Dub, dub, dub, amer.net.edu, but New Zealand.
Speaker 2: (16:35) Okay. Well, we'll check that out. Cause you're getting in all sorts of lists of people. Now let's go a little bit into hyperbaric and I wanted to sort of touch on today. Some of the possible treatments for brain injury whether that's, you know, from stroke or traumatic brain injury or you know, concussions or aneurysms, in my case with mum your, your experience with hyperbaric in the, the medical grave facilities, I've had a mild hyperbaric chamber. My mum who might listen, sort of know my story with my mum. Four years ago, we had this disaster after three months in hospital, we've told, you know, put her in a, in a hospital level care facility and she'll never do anything again, she's major brain damage. I found hyperbaric on the internet and I managed to get a a commercial dive company that let me have access for a while.
Speaker 2: (17:38) And then I had such success there that I ended up buying a mild hyperbaric chamber and installing it and out in their home and put her through she's had over 250 sessions now at 1.5 atmospheres that combined, and that, wasn't the only thing I did. And it ended up being an eight hour protocol every day that I sort of put together from pieces from functional neurology and nootropics and epigenetics and functional genomics and really diving deep for the last four years into the science and doing what I could, you know, it was either do everything I can or lose my mom. Those were the two options. So I was desperate to get her back. And on that journey, I've, I've hyperbaric is so powerful. His has so many things that it can be really good for. What, what are your experiences where that and the work that you did in the hospital and what it's actually recognized for versus what it overseas, perhaps as being used for two different things, aren't they, what's your take on that
Speaker 3: (18:51) Sort of conventional set of indications for using hyperbaric? We still hospitals use we only have two hospital hyperbarics in New Zealand and one in Christchurch and one in Devonport which is really the Navy one rusty open hospital used us. Other than that, they're all private ones. So the hospital ones really is the history they came from. They came from a Navy based history for treating the bins really, or in the ancient days, you go back a hundred years, a case, some workers, which of the people that put in pylons for building bridges on the go of the water, they had to put the pylons in and they would get the bins and the bins. It was because when they came up, they were in pain and they were bent over because they were having gobbles coming out into their spine and their muscles.
Speaker 3: (19:49) So yeah, the hospital based ones are really a very strict set of criteria. Like as I said, the bins various forms of severe infection, gangrene infections a few other conditions like carbon monoxide poisoning, possibly cyanide poisoning. But there limited number of conditions. It doesn't include brain injury. It doesn't include strokes. It doesn't include neurodegenerative diseases. It doesn't, Incruse clued fibromyalgia, a whole raft of things where we now realize there's reasonable evidence that it has some impact. One of the troubles with medicine is you'll know, is that it relies on this gold standard thing called a randomized controlled trial, where you have to do a very difficult process of having a placebo group and a treatment group. And for doing that, the hyperbaric is a nightmare because to try and have a treatment that isn't a treatment that looks like a treatment is quite hard.
Speaker 3: (20:59) A lot of the work that's been done is kind of on the edge of how good it is. So most of the research we tend to see about is where we've used it lots of times and have said, ah, this seems to be working it's anecdotal it's case series. And there are some great researchers used, you'll know, like poor hearts in the States and so on. And to give some credit, the Russians have been doing it for much longer, but a lot of this stuff is unpublished. So there's a huge amount of volume of work going on around the world. And now one of the best units is in Israel. They've got some great work going on there. So, but these are the kind of these are the people going outside, the normal bubble of what's accepted as, okay. And yet they're getting good results as far as we can tell until you get that ask TT of gold standard, the conventional systems unlikely to change, that's the problem.
Speaker 2: (22:02) And the, the having, you know, the randomized control trials is just not going to happen. And something like hyperbaric that hasn't got a patentable drug, realistically, the costs are too high aren't, they,
Speaker 3: (22:14) It is high and there have been some trials, but they nearly always stop at 20 treatments. That that's the number that they stop at. Yeah. That's, it's kinda like I'm saying you've been on a drug per month and let's see how it's worked is it's kind of that way of thinking
Speaker 2: (22:35) The genetic shifts happening, right.
Speaker 3: (22:37) 200 hours of training as a whole lot of things that aren't going to happen in that time period, or they are, it's going to be fairly mild, not, not as far as you could. And as you know, one of things with the poor hearts researchers, he kept doing spec scans and checking up on patients and he found that they were still improving at 80 treatments, still improving. I mean, Hey, so we stop at 20 with our RCTs. It's not a great place to design. Is this working or not?
Speaker 2: (23:08) And, and, you know, I mean, I know with, with mom I've yeah. Like I said, put her through 250, you know and I still continue to see improvements and I do it in blocks now, and then I give her a break from it. And it's in those breaks when you often get the next level of, of improvement.
Speaker 3: (23:27) I think that is the epigenetic effect probably saying,
Speaker 2: (23:32) Yeah. You know, to fix apparently 8,000 genes that can be influenced by these epigenetic shifts. And it's, it's, it's I like going to the gym, you know, I'm not going to go to the gym and then three weeks time out looking like taught. So they got, or, you know, it doesn't happen that quickly, but the NGO Genesis the inflammation, the STEM cell production, certainly at the higher or lower pressures they happen over time. Do you see also a benefit and stacking it for the ones who have a better word with other protocols? So, so other things like ozone therapy, for example, or P myth therapy or anything else that you find beneficial combining?
Speaker 3: (24:23) I think, I mean, I would say yes in a, in a clinical sense of experience, but I couldn't say that there are trials with trials to say, like to have only one or two variables. They don't want to throw a whole lot in at once. You agreed, I would start probably with nutrition and there are a number of nutrients, which you know about that you can throw into the equation. I think as auxiliary treatments my particular interest at the moment is photobiomodulation, it's using laser treatment.
Speaker 2: (24:56) Oh, I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about photos.
Speaker 3: (25:01) So I think this to me is an up and coming thing. I've spent the last two or three summers going to a conference in Germany, a laser conference where some of the, the experts get together from around the world. And they talk about these things. I've also been to one in Australia last October. What, what we're now what we've known about. Okay. Let me tell the curve.
Speaker 3: (25:30) Phases. We're not talking about cutting lasers, which are where you focus the beam to a point. So drill holes and things like James Bond. You know, that's not one of those, okay. We're talking about parallel, light photons. That is they're going side by side. So they're not drilling holes in you. And what happens with that? And there's a lot of great research, and this is where there's far more research out there than most people know about, because unless you're interested in this field, you don't go looking for it. I've got quite a big database now looking at all this stuff. And what we w one of the things that, that does, it does a whole rock to things a bit like hyperbaric. But it particularly affects the mitochondria because your mitochondria are the little components in every cell of your body, pretty well, that produces energy in terms of ATP and NADH as well.
Speaker 3: (26:27) And those mitochondria, well, if we go back a little bit in time, those mitochondria, I actually what's called proteobacteria in the ancient of days, they were bacteria that had been incorporated into you carry out excels and also the cells, because they needed a bigger energy source. These provided the energy. So we became part of the place, if you see what I mean. So the interesting thing about mitochondria in their rules are what we call chromophores, which are proteins that react to light because that's how the bacteria actually got their energy originally, like plants. They were converting sunlight into energy. Okay. So how about how mitochondria respond to light at different frequencies? So different frequencies do dislike your different chemical reactions in the mitochondria. What so that's one little pack to hold onto it. And when that happens, a number of things happen.
Speaker 3: (27:31) One, you get obviously the ability to produce a whole lot of repair mechanisms get stimulated energy mechanisms get stimulated. You turn off excessive inflammation, a whole lot of things you want to happen happen by getting your mitochondria to work properly. And in fact, one of the concerns that even about getting older and aging is that our mitochondria are not functioning properly, or we have less salt. It is the basis of aging really isn't it? Mitochondrial dysfunction, certainly one of the big, big keys. So different frequencies will do different stimulate different components. So we now know with lasers, we use different colored blazers to get different effects. However, the big problem is that if you try and print, since you use blue or yellow, the penetration is very small. So, but as you go towards red, you get more and more penetration.
Speaker 3: (28:30) And what most of us now use is infrared. Infrared is the most penetrating of all colors. And what you can now do is, is get lasers that will penetrate right through bone, even through the skull, into the brain very effectively. I can give you a story if you want a story. It depends on what, what got me really interested in this area was another bit of serendipity where a number of years ago a patient in Oakland well, it's man in Oakland phoned me. I said, look, my wife has got this terrible thoracic vertebrae, vertebral abscess. So several vertebrae and unless she has continuous antibiotics she gets very unwell and in a lot of pain. And so she'd been on antibiotics for 18 months and every time she stopped it, it flared up badly to the point that they said, look, the only next thing we can do is do an operation where they go in through the past the lungs, through the anterior approach, which is to scoop out the dead material and pass and try and rebuild the spine, which is a dangerous operation horrific.
Speaker 3: (29:53) And so the husband who was not an entrepreneur, he had did some research. He's a very bright guy and he came across hyperbaric oxygen. And so he found me because I, at the time was the only person with a high pressure, private hospitals refuse to do anything. That's fine. When in doubt we started treatment and we were part way through the treatment. And he came in to me and he said, Hey, Hey Tim, what do you know about lasers? And I said, well, not a lot, really. And it's developed, have you seen these papers? How power lasers at certain frequencies will kill bacteria, including staphylococcus, which she had. Wow. I thought, wow, that's interesting. And I read up on some papers and I then researched more and I came back to him a day or so later and say, Hey, look, you're right. This looks quite promising.
Speaker 3: (30:50) He then said to me, okay, look, you find me the right laser. And I'll get it here in three days from anywhere in the world. I thought, wow, that's a good, I haven't been asked to do that before. So I found this one in the States, which was 25,000 U S wow. He had it there in three days. Boom. Wow. And we just started treating with both. And the long and the short is after two sets for treatments, she has been able to stop all her antibiotics and has stayed role for the last 18 months, two years while having any problem, it's amazing basically, and the MRIs improved and everything's, you know, there's new bone growth and so forth. So it just gave me that insight of, wow, there's so much information out there. Why didn't I know about it. So I got to know about it.
Speaker 3: (31:42) I've been to these conferences. So now I'm starting to use a similar laser to the one he got just by the way, anyone who wants to get one, I found that his was actually made in China and I got it for a third, the price, what was it called? Because I'd love to have a look into that myself. Yeah. So it's a, it's a nice, it's a classical advisor. So you don't want to play there ladies as have class one to four and four is the most powerful, so you've got to be married. Yeah. So you've just got to be careful. Don't China in people's eyes and things like that. But anyway, so I've been using this for a number of different situations and there's some great research, randomized control trials of various things. One of them, which I found quite amazing is using it to depression, where they showed that if you did the left frontal area that in a randomized controlled trial, they improved similar to drug treatment. So there we go.
Speaker 2: (32:46) Is that something looking at the vitamin D pathways or something like that? Or is it,
Speaker 3: (32:53) I don't think so. No. I think it's a separate effect on we know from, in terms of depression also that often it's, so their frontal area on a QEG that's the main area, or if you do a functional MRI. And so it's just that, that was the area of this one to work on, to improve its functioning. So the thing with the laser is it's simply trying to restore a normal cell function as best it can.
Speaker 2: (33:18) Is that laser available? Like, can you as a nonmedical professional get one of these, I mean, this gentlemen
Speaker 3: (33:27) Far Mark Palmer exciting because a lot of this work's been done with the sort of laser that I would have the cost for, but then I'm realizing that low level laser treatment, L L T low level laser treatment, which is class three, but even on art seems to work. And what, when I say that, believe it or not is that this is something that's in the usually 50 to 500 milliwatt versus I'm using 15 Watts or 15,000 milli Watts. So what we initially thought is Hey, how can that possibly get through the skin, the underlying tissue, the skull, and into the brain and that level of power. It just didn't make sense. And yet the trials showed that it does. And what we now realize is that the skull, when you look at it with very high powered electron microscopes sections actually has this lattice works of tubules going through it, which the light can probably pass through. Wow. Because otherwise it just didn't make sense that something could hit this solid bone and still get through when, if you did it on the, on something similar thickness without those channels, it wouldn't so that, but anyway, so low level lasers are looking very good at the moment and they're much cheaper and much easier to use different ones.
Speaker 2: (35:06) Yeah. I've got I've I've got two from via light. The 16, yes. I've got the two ones that go up up the nostril at the nasal ones at the, what is it? The eight, eight 55 or something in him.
Speaker 3: (35:21) That's the nanometers. So that's the actual wavelengths of which is infrared. But then they piggyback onto that they what they call modulator. So that I think the one I've got the neuro one as well, which is still the 40 Hertz one. I haven't got that one, but 10 Hertz one. Yeah. That's the one that goes across the skull. Is it doing that? It's the actual, so what, this gets much more kind of exciting in a way, from my point of view, if you get, if you're excited by tech technical things, is that they, the wavelength of the infrared, which is the 800 to 800 to a thousand nanometers, roughly yes. Infrared that wavelength is what is going through into, in this case, the brain what you can do is you can pulse that process and that then becomes a frequency that's received by the tissue.
Speaker 3: (36:24) So to some extent, the wave length going in is doing one set of things. And then on top of that, you can what I call piggyback, but the correct name is modulating the, so that you get a frequency, which has different effects. Now I'll give you an example a year or two ago a patient who was a local barista fell off his mountain bike and did the usual over the handlebars, hit his head, got concussed and tried to go back to work, but he is it problem with it. He had a cognitive deficit where he couldn't tolerate much noise people or anything, as soon as there was a lot going on his brain sort of short circuited, he couldn't think. And as a barista, that didn't work, he couldn't interact with people. So he had to stop working and this went on for months and he wasn't recovering.
Speaker 3: (37:24) So he came to steamy and I said, look, okay, we'll use the laser. And we did a few sessions without obviously much improvement at what we call a continuous rate where it's just the infrared process. But then I looked at some of the research and I thought, what I can do on my laser, I can actually put in any frequency I want, I can change it. It's a sort of fairly clever one. And I, so I put it at 10 Hertz frequency that session from then onwards, he just got better and better and better and went back to work and he knew it the next day. He'd said, look, I'm so much better just from that one session once we did the 10 Hertz. So what we're understanding now, there's a lot of research going on around the world here. The guy cut in the States called Michael Hamblin.
Speaker 3: (38:15) Who's one of the sort of gurus of this, but also in Australia and in Tasmania, interesting enough, they're doing a whole load of research. Look at these frequencies, looking at what's bears, looking at what how much you need and what they're finding. It's a little bit like hyperbaric. When I started doing hyperbaric, we used very high pressure as well, partly because we're treating divers, but a lot of the therapy was based on two to 2.4 atmospheres treatment and everything, as you know, what, what requirement is actually, some of the lower pressures are better for certain situations restore brain function. And they're finding that with the lasers, you don't necessarily have to hammer it in hard with a very high level. It's more of about the subtleties of the right frequencies, the right dose, the right evidencing. So this is where a lot of work's going on. I don't think we've got all the answers by a long way, but I think it's a very exciting field risk, low risk, you know, very low risk. What we do know about, as you're saying these lays, this sort of laser is pretty well without risk providing you don't look at it. And with the sort of laser I've got that if you hold it in one place, it gets too hot. So there's a heat element. Whereas the low level that doesn't happen, they using led lights now instead of laser. So
Speaker 2: (39:43) I saw one just yesterday when I was doing some research on tinnitus I've forgotten the name of it, Luma meat or something like that. Laser therapy that they're doing the doctor in Australia was doing it for the inner ear to regenerate the hears on the inner ear to help, you know, tonight as suburb sufferers and his disease suffers. And then we're getting lots of success with that. And I certainly, you know, when I heard about it and did some, some research on it for mum, I think it's been a part of her recovery as well. I only had internet-based the nasal ones and I had one at the 600, the 600 in him and the other one at the eight, eight 50. But I'd like to look into this more. It seems to be a lot going on around frequencies general, whether it's light frequencies or PEMF pulsed electromagnetic field. Do you know anything about the PE EMF at all?
Speaker 3: (40:42) Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really exciting area. It's it's, to some extent it started off with someone called Royal rife in the, in the States. Do you know, do you know about him? He's a, he was a doctor back in the 1930s, forties, fifties. It was really quite a brilliant doctor, but actually ended up in a sad situation because, well, I'll come to that. So he started looking at how frequencies could be used in medicine. And what he found is that by using, he had a cathode Ray tube in those days to produce them. And he also developed at the time, the most powerful microscope light microscope that existed a very intricate complex microscope that allowed him to look at cells while they're alive. What's called dark microscopy, which was very new at the time.
Speaker 3: (41:43) And what it could do is look at cells and then the mom with his catheter, gray different frequencies and see what happened to them. And what he found is that he retained some frequencies and see different things. So he kept saying, you know, if you're trying to kill this by this seems to be the right frequency or this cancer, this frequency seems to be the right frequency and did a of research over a years and started getting some really quite astounding success with these patients. And a number of his close friends started their colleagues. We started using similar instruments and again, started doing very well until the FDA got winded at all. And they came in and Congress skated every part of his equipment that he had, and he was left in ruins. But and yet there's a huge amount of information left behind about what he was doing. And so a lot of the ideas of different frequencies for different illnesses came from his early work.
Speaker 2: (42:49) That's right. I do remember that story now. And there is a few of his machines that have been
Speaker 3: (42:54) Absolutely. So there are some original ones possibly when they say original, it's really hard to know because we don't know really what the regional ones, cause there's some sort of stronghold by the FDA got rid of them, but there's also some very modern versions of them now, which are computerized, which obviously he couldn't do. But so just to say that I think the electromagnetic field concept I mean, we're, we're in a very low electromagnetic field when we're not around other gadgetry and we're inside the field of the earth, which, you know, the Schumann frequency, which are an important frequency that have been there since, you know, we evolved. So they are part of our evolution. So they're part of what is normal for us. And so those frequencies are quite important frequencies. When we start coming in with very set frequencies, like 50 Hertz for electricity and all these other things, we're actually interfering with a whole normal ability to stay in homeo homeostasis, to some extent.
Speaker 2: (44:06) And this is where, yeah, the EMF side of the argument, or, you know, the, the problems that we're possibly facing with, with CMS, it's from all our devices and 5g coming, goodness knows what's X gonna do. And PEMF is very different though. It's using the right frequencies
Speaker 3: (44:24) That's and it's also using the therapeutic way. And by and large, in, in at a low level, rather than a level, you don't necessarily, again, have to use these massive magnetic fields to get the effect that you want. You can use really very subtle ones.
Speaker 2: (44:39) And again, it's working on the mitochondria, I believe from the research that I've done, it's actually having an effect on the mitochondrial health and function. And I, I just, I wish we had a, I wish everybody could have access to a place where we had all of these things lined up next to each other and, you know, the ones that are lower risk at least that we could all, you know, be able to use without huge costs involved in a utopia, perhaps something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (45:08) I think we're moving a little bit towards that and I expect, and maybe on another occasion, I'll talk about sound therapy and how the that's another component of frequency, but I, I agree you can use to CS, which is cranial electric stimulation very simple devices like the alpha STEM, very expensive, what it is that almost immediately induces a sleepy, relaxed state.
Speaker 2: (45:40) Yes. Yeah, I'll be, I'll be in that one too. So yes,
Speaker 3: (45:46) It's kind of bizarre that you can just put two clips. I kept on each year and start the machine. And within minutes you're feeling drowsy and very relaxed,
Speaker 2: (45:57) But it's mentioned and Ben Greenfield, he's a famous biohacker and trainer out of the States and his new book boundless, which is quite an amazing book. It's got, you know, everything known to man, and then he mentions the CES and using that to, to go to sleep every night and how it's improved as her sleep. So there's just so much things that are coming. And I, and I find it really exciting if we can integrate the traditional medical model with some of these like you are doing. And it's a really exciting thing for me. And I just wish we had more access for more people. It is, you see, before I don't need any promotion because I have so many people wanting to come to me and I can, I can truly believe that because there's such a need out there.
Speaker 3: (46:49) The wonderful, unfortunately there are a few old phrases in medicine. One is that medicine changes coding. When the previous generation dies. It tends to prove slowly
Speaker 3: (47:07) People vote with their feet. And I think that's what we're seeing. A lot of people are actually saying, I don't want this. I want that. Rather than just accepting what's there, that's very healthy on the whole saying, okay, I'm, I'm getting quite informed about what I think I need. I just need someone to guide me through that process and if necessary me with some of the resources. And so I think that's a very important thing. And I think by and large, it is being embraced a bit in general practice to some extent, but probably less so as you move up the ladder into secondary and tertiary care, which is a kind of specialist areas,
Speaker 2: (47:48) And this is why I think it's important that you know, where, you know, want to be in the preventative space where possible, so that we, you know, are looking at things before it gets to the point where everything's taken out of your control, because you're now in the intensive care or in the hospital, some where it's actually impossible to get any of these things. And it's important that we take control and ownership. And this is what the show is really all about is, is educating people about the things that are out there and the things that they can do their own research is it's a curation. If you like of information from brilliant minds in different areas, so that we can have, these can have these conversations and open up these discussions so that we can start to realize that there is more than just a pharmaceutical model or a surgical model, which is mostly what we were offered. I mean, those are very important and very good, but
Speaker 3: (48:44) Yeah, they're largely the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. To some extent they have much more difficulty dealing with chronic longterm problems. They're good for the acute and the end, if, you know, if I break my leg, I'm going straight to the hospital.
Speaker 2: (49:00) Yeah. Yeah. And then you might come home and do a hyperbaric session on the way home.
Speaker 2: (49:09) Exactly. I would tell you if I have one that you've got, that's brilliant. Just coming back to hormone sorry. I wanted to talk about hormones in relation to brain injury. Is there something you're seeing yes, under diagnosed often with traumatic brain injuries, especially
Speaker 3: (49:28) A very interesting point. You bring up in time. I should I have a whole presentation on all of this, but one of the papers I'm just kind of going to,
Speaker 2: (49:38) I have to get you back on to, to take us through the whole presentation.
Speaker 3: (49:43) Okay. So this is, I'm just reading from my slide now, the prevalence of hypo pituitary ism. So you put your three glands just behind your eyes and produce several homelands in mild, moderate, and severe brain injury was estimated at 16.8% for mild. So that's nearly 17% interesting, only 10.9 for moderate and 35% for severe TBI. But what that saying is that people can have interference with some of their hormone production or a relatively mild event. TBI is common. We now realize one of the big things that's only recently kind of come to is how frequent TBI and what we call MTBI mild, traumatic brain injury, and eh, from sports through to domestic violence, through to all sorts of things where people are getting minor injuries all the time. When I say all the time, several in a row or within a period of time.
Speaker 3: (50:49) And it can be that I had a sort of patient just this week, for instance, had come up from Christchurch to see me who had had an injury a year ago, where he had walked into a metal bar, cause he was looking the wrong way and wasn't actually knocked out. Then when I started talking about it, he said, Oh, well, yeah. And the previous year I did that. And then I fell over and hit my head, did that. And before that, and we had this whole series of minor traumatic brain injuries, and this was a store on the camel's back because since his last one he's hardly been able to work. He can't concentrate all these things that are familiar to us with MTBI. And so it's often that kind of background of quite a few, and then something knocks you out when they're not bad words, but something pushes you over the edge.
Speaker 2: (51:42) And then you start to have, well, actually a year, we he's had some consult consults with me as well. And I've it, it, I think people think that they have to have her knocked out, had a major car accident before anything is actually a real problem or if they had it. So in the case of my brother who was a professional rugby player some of the things that I'm seeing in him now, and I have permission to talk about us information are signs to me of a delayed response to brain injury and, you know, helping him work through all of those, but often you, you won't know that it was the thing that you did 10 years ago, perhaps that can still be affecting your brain or that your personality has changed because of a brain injury or your energy levels, your hormones and so on. And this is why it's really important.
Speaker 3: (52:42) And I'd also add in there that that store on the camel's back of that minor injury may actually be because there are other things going on, like other toxins, whether they're heavy metals are related to what you're working and so forth. So there can be a variety of other things that was sitting there in the background and until really challenged, didn't seem to have a problem with them yet when you're challenged, you do, and you then have to deal with those as well, come right through a detox process quite often to deal with some of the oldest. Well, some of the background stuff I should say.
Speaker 2: (53:26) Yeah. And so, you know, looking at like with brain injury and optimizing brain health, we need to be looking at foundational health issues as well as okay. For the fancier things like the hyperbaric and the laser and all of those, the hormone assessment and, and starting to, to educate people around, you know, systemic inflammation and the job of mitochondria and all of these aspects, which heavy metal detoxing, which is something that we should all probably be interested in. And then layering on top of it. Some of these other therapies and that multipronged approach is something that I think has been the reason that I think I've been successful with mom is that having those, those layers and then continuing to look, what is the next thing, what is the next area that I can explore to bring the next but back? And as you say, it can build on each other. And as we get older, we build more toxicity in our body from metals. Most of us have got some sort of,
Speaker 2: (54:29) We do, and we collect it and then it starts to it's that bucket there's that we sort of manage it to here and then it overflows and then it's all sorts coming out. So let's, you know, being in that preventative mindset of, okay, I'm going to help my body detox before I perhaps get something else happen to me. You know, it can be a good, a good way of looking at it. W we've covered a whole lot of areas everywhere. Just one last question for me, an area that I'm interested in, I've just got a new kit, new ozone therapy kit. What's your take on ozone? This is something I've just been getting into the last couple of weeks and researching is it, you know, like it seems to have some of the same benefits as hyperbaric in, in a way a different process and delivery, but it seems to be quite similar in some aspects. Have you had any experience with those on, at all
Speaker 3: (55:30) A bit? I'm not an expert on it, so I'll say that, but I've read a fair amount on it. And I have a colleague working for my clinic now who has a perfusion equipment, which kind of topics I think like many things, it's a double edged sword. So people, first of all, must never have agree. Those are toxic to the lungs. So the idea that, Oh, I'll just get a kit and breed. Some is the completely wrong thing to do. So it has to be introduced into the body. And that's where we run into problems. First of all, because you can put it in through various artifices yep. Other than the breathing one. And that makes it plain or it can be given and it can be given intravenously in two ways. One literally as a bonus ozone, which is somewhat, could be risky.
Speaker 3: (56:36) And although those that use it say that it isn't or you can take some blood off, mix it with Arizona and reproduce it, which is the one in Germany has been done for many years now. So there's quite a lot of research from them about its use. And I think it, it has a definite role as a, as a strong antiseptic for the staff. So in terms of killing bugs within the organism it probably has an anti cancer component. The problem with when we say probably is actually getting the research done. So again, this is more anecdotal evidence but it, it has a way of re oxygen icing, very similar, I think, to hyperbaric, but also sterilizing as well, which is slightly different from hyperbaric to barricade. It has to be an anaerobic bug for that to work. So I think it does have some definite roles. I think if you're doing your run, you you're talking, it's going to be very careful
Speaker 2: (57:46) The home therapy. Yeah. That's ear insufflation and rectal insufflation cupping, that type of thing. But yes. Yeah, I think, I think it's a good thing to have a few obviously need to be taught and doing some training in it this week how to, how to use it safely. Definitely don't want it anywhere near your lungs. But it, it, that dangerous side, as far as the lungs is concerned, a very good thing to have as a basic first aid for any infection that you get, you know, speak Corona even maybe they are looking into the research at the moment is if it can help with the coronavirus. And I've got a dr. Rowan coming on my show next week, who's one of the world's top experts and ozone therapies are really excited. He actually went to Africa and the Ebola crisis got shut down, unfortunately by, shall we say the mafia somewhere over the, there, when he was treating patients and treating in training the doctors and it, but it is a very, it seems to have a lot of research over a long period of time.
Speaker 2: (58:56) And again I think a very interesting one to do more research on yourself and to maybe add into the, to the, to the list of things that you can do.
Speaker 3: (59:08) I definitely think so. And of course, you know, for me, I would be probably if I was concerned about personally concerned about Kobe, be using high dose intravenous vitamin C, which we do here anyway. So that's part of the same. But you brought up than I did. One of the research the Germans had done in Africa on malaria was using one of the blue lasers intravenously or into the vein while taking one of the B vitamins, which so this is using PDT, which is photo dynamic therapy. So photo meaning the laser dynamic, meaning you give something which sensitizes, whatever the target is to the laser in this case, it's the bacteria, or at least in his, but it's actually the malaria parasite I should say. And they showed very definite success with doing this wow light and the vitamin B irradiation.
Speaker 3: (01:00:18) I think they call that. Yeah, there's UV radiation too. So this is a this is using PDT, which is similar, but using, for instance, one of the things that I've been working with is PDT here, where we use the infrared laser with the sensitizing agent, which is called InDesign and green. It's a green dye that they eye specialists use to look at the back of your eye and cancer cells taken up preferentially to normal cells and hold on to it. Whereas normal cells pass it through within 30 minutes. Wow. So what you do is you give this an hour or two before your treatment and then shine the laser light at the cancer. And I've had one remarkable disappearance of a cancer just doing that. So again, for everybody, before I get too many times, this is an area of interest and it's cool PDT photo dynamics.
Speaker 3: (01:01:25) So using light with an agent that don't and I also use an ultrasound machine and the thing that sensitizes you to Roxanne is curcumin. So and using ultrasound and because Tim was hold onto it for a long time, you can use that to, Hmm, goodness. Isn't that funny? That's without me now, they won't go SPD T so no photodynamic therapy, right? I'm going to have to look at that one. Now this is experimental. So it's research stuff. So that's not something that's out there for everyone to go and get it's something being looked at around the world. There's a huge amount of research going on in medical circles and sciences to find the right agents, the lights frequencies and so forth, but a promising area using nanotechnology to deliver the sensitizer to the cancer as well. There's a lot of very fancy stuff going on.
Speaker 2: (01:02:34) Wow. This is very exciting. Well, I think we've covered a lot of ground today. Heaven. We thank you so much, dr. Tome. I really appreciate your time. And the fact that you, we, you know, we have such a great doctor in our midst and who is looking at all of these very exciting areas and integrating knowledge from all areas and having such an open approach to it. I think that's absolutely brilliant. I wish you were bit more local. It would be good. I would love to have you again on the show to talk about, maybe do a presentation and the, the the information that you were talking about the just earlier at some stage when you have time, but I'm super appreciative of your time. Did I know that you're an extremely busy man? Is there anything that you would like to say to wrap up the show or any, any final words?
Speaker 3: (01:03:28) I think just I'd support the whole idea of, of integrative medicine as a. And I think that can involve a whole load of different health practitioners working together to get that model by the way, rather than just one person as the way forward to the future for getting, not just from disease to some degree of wellness, but getting to full wellbeing, the next layer up. And I think that's really where we're heading and a lot of ways through lifestyle, you know, diet, all of these different things. And to me, like you've been talking about today, what excites me particularly is the idea of using light color sound and vibration as part of that journey. I think it's fascinating. I think we're only partway there. We haven't mentioned sound yet. That's another whole area, so there's some interesting things going on to try to make that happen.
Speaker 2: (01:04:21) Very exciting times ahead. I can't wait for a little bit more research to happen and to make it more less expensive in more doable for people so that they can actually get up. Dr. Tim, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. And we hope to, Hey, hope to have you on again soon.
Speaker 1: (01:04:42) That's it this week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.
26 Dec 2019
Episode 131: How To Reset Your Mindset
00:27:16
In this episode, Lisa talks to her business partner/Coach Neil Wagstaff about resetting your mindset and how to get your brain to do what it should.
We all have goals and plans and as we head into a new year we are all making new years resolutions and dreaming of what the year could bring us.
But how often do you fall off the bandwagon, how often do you sabotage your own goals and don't know why. Neil and Lisa discuss tricks to get your mind on track, to developing new habits, reprogramming your subconscious to get onboard with the plan and how to trick the limbic brain into doing what your conscious brain wants.
We would like to thank our sponsors:
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All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.
www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group
Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.
Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!
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The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home
Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics
You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com
Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:13) Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here and I am once again with Neil Wagstaff. How are you doing Neil? I'm good, I'm very good. And tonight Neil and I, this is just before Christmas that we were recording this and we want to, you know, we're coming up to new year's and time to reflect on what you did this year and it might be playing for next year's goals that you want to sit out. And we thought we would do a session on resetting your mindset. I knew. So we want to go over some tips and tricks and some things we use. Think about when you're setting goals and how you going to be able to stay on the right track more often. So first of all, you've got to set some goals. I knew where do we go from here?
Speaker 3: (00:56) Is this the best place to start? Make sure there's a, there's a goal in a goal in place and make sure it's a clear goal. Make sure it was well outlined and make sure, most importantly, once you've got the goal in place, you understand why you are doing it.
Speaker 2: (01:09) Why, why the why, the why. The why is a really important fact to see if you have a goal in itself. It's, it's in it. It's nothing. It's just a piece of paper that you wrote something or it's all of those. It's when you start unpacking the why that you want to get this goal. That's when you come into the emotional triggers and your values and all this sort of stuff that actually creates the action that actually creates the, the, the ability for you to overcome the obstacle obstacles in order to get to that goal. So it's really important to understand your why. Now when you're working with a client, what do you do to pull out the why if you like,
Speaker 3: (01:53) Hey, it's, it's really making sure it's down in your, it's written down in your words, your language. It's, it's used, used the words that you, you actually come out of your mouth, the language you use. So as an example of someone had been very stereotypical, says they're gonna they might not want to lose weight and I'm going to then continuously ask why. And it's like literally peeling back the layers of an onion. So we want to, as you said, get deeper and deeper, fond at the emotional reason that's driving that. And once you keep putting back the layers, why, why do you want to lose? Why'd you want to lose weight? Well, I want to lose weight because I want to feel more confident. Okay. Why do you want to feel more confident? Because I want to be able to comfortably company run half marathon.
Speaker 3: (02:33) Okay. And why'd you want to run the half marathon? Because I want to be a good role model for my children. Okay. And why do you want to do that? Because my dad wasn't a good role model to me, so I want to step up now, make sure that I'm really a straight to my children, that I'm moving and being regularly healthy. And am regularly active is, is what we need to do to, to move forward in a productive way. Once you get all those layers back, we've then got the words that you jump out. There will be things like confidence, health activity, role model, and then we can put that into a statement that actually means something. And that's the key thing is the statement that the all clients have in front of them should mean something to them. And then that statement, we are statements to write down on paper and then that is then put somewhere that they can see it on a regular basis daily.
Speaker 3: (03:21) And for some people who are really encouraged to actually rewrite it on a weekly basis. So whether that's taught into update it into a Google doc or it's actually written down and rewritten. So that is just front of mind writing. We've, the experience I've had and firstly from doing myself actually having to write it out, just brings it back front and center again. You know, I want to be, for me, my key words that have been, I've been enrollment of my children being a superhero for them. I want them to look up at me like I'm a, I'm a superhero, so I want to remind myself that on a regular basis so that that's my why and once I put that clearly in my head, understand and let me do a little bit of work on purpose as well, but that's probably another podcast in itself.
Speaker 3: (04:00) But really once you've got the goal written on paper, clearly there, then that is what you're going to base your daily decision on. Because if you really want to get to that and achieve it and get to that half marathon, do it in a time. You won't be the wrong mode. You want be the be the superhero you want to be. Then each day when you're making your decisions, you make your decisions purely based on your goal that's clear in your heads. And if it's not clear and you don't understand why, then it's so, so easy to take the wrong path and make the wrong decision each day because you're not very, very clear on what you're doing. If you're a hundred percent clear on what you're doing and taking the right path and making the right decision is a whole lot easier.
Speaker 2: (04:38) Yup. And we have like two to 300 decisions a day to make. And so this is really, really important that we have these goals and these are the reasons why in the front of our brain all the time that it's how, and I actually find two that actually working that physically on an old fashioned note and piece of paper much better than on a computer. I find that it just, it gets in your brain more, you know, and you have it in front of you. And when we come to, I call them lawyer folk in the road, each decision that we have as a fork in the road and I can just decide to go lift, which will lead me to the path towards more success than the other one is away from the goals that I want to have. And if we take the, you know eating chocolate, what am I definite weaknesses in life is a chocolate and right.
Speaker 2: (05:22) So when I come to the decision, I actually want to eat less chocolate. The chocolate sitting there in front of me and I can decide I'm going to either eat it because it tastes good or I can stick to my goals, which won't be to lose weight or to, to have a healthier diet. And then when I understand the why behind it, I can take a little bit more of a zoomed out view instead of just the taste and the immediate impulse. So we as human beings tend to run on Sudi sick and decision making impulses. And if we can to lay a decision for just a few seconds, sometimes we can override then impulse to just stick the chocolate in your mouth. Right? And, and so w when we zoom out a little bit and we see what's around the corner, cause often we come to a fork in the road and all you can see is the chocolate.
Speaker 2: (06:12) Yes or no. You can't actually see you like you, you're not thinking about, well if I eat this chocolate and I do this behavior repeatedly is obviously one piece of chocolate isn't going to be a problem. But if I do this behavior repeatedly, then around the corner as perhaps disease round the corner is obesity around the corner was diabetes. And, and while negative health outcomes I say, and not a motivator, it's still a good thing to be able to zoom out and to understand, well actually I want to be fit. I want to feel good. When I got to the beach, the sear on the summer and we my bikini, I, I want to, you know, whatever it is that moves and motivates you, seen as more likely to be at least a ten second sex discussion in your mind about whether you're going to do it.
Speaker 2: (06:56) And sometimes you'll start to win in those discussions. If you can just delay the impulse a little bit is as human beings we and this is scientists speaking, not me. We all go towards pleasure and away from pain. We don't like to move ourselves towards painful decisions. And, and when I first heard this, I was like, I don't agree with it. I, I, you know, running a marathon definitely can be painful. I knew, you know, or an ultramarathon there's a hell of a lot of pain and discipline and overcoming yourself. And they said yes, but you're still going towards pleasure because you bigger goal. And again, we're looking at the zoomed out view is actually leading you towards more pleasure. The goal of having the marathon done the middle around your neck, that, that feeling of achievement. So you are moving towards pleasure and that pleasure is bigger than the pain of having to overcome yourself to get out the door to go training this morning.
Speaker 2: (07:54) Does it make sense? So the pleasure and pine thing, it can be just an immediate impulse, the pleasure of that Tyson, that chocolate is going to make me eat it right now. Or I take a slightly zoomed out view at the bigger goal and w w w worked towards the pleasure of being fitter and stronger and losing weight or whatever the goal is. And remember, this stuff is not just about food and training. This is not just about that. This is what every goal you have in your life and your career and your business. If you can take this, this method, if you like, this framework that we're trying to give you and see this as a real fork in the road. Get a picture with a, you know, a tree in the middle of the road that goes left in a road that goes right and picture that in your brain. And when you come to those decision points, try and think about what's around the corner and what is my bigger goal and zoom out a little bit and at the beginning, Neal, isn't it? Isn't it true that when you be stopped starving you habit, it's a really tough road at the,
Speaker 3: (08:56) This is real, real hard and it's not. If it was easy, then we'd all be doing the right stuff all the time, but it's a real, what's worked for me personally and everyone we're working with is just really, you've got a fork in the road and just understanding that doing small things consistently will can lead you down the bad road. So consistently, as you said, in chocolate in small pieces daily will eventually lead to the you somewhere. You don't want to be consistently having four or five coffee today daily. In the short term it provide pleasure, but in the longterm it's going to take it somewhere you want to be. If you flip it round and often the Creighton, the new habit, it feels quite overwhelming. There's going to be a real big, big challenge, but if you just pick one or two things and work out, if I consistently do those day in, day out, it doesn't need to be massive things.
Speaker 3: (09:45) It could be simply walking for an additional 15 to 20 minutes a day. It could be drinking a little bit more water each day. It could be something real simple, but you work out. I consistently do that and I do that every day, day in, day out. Then all of a sudden the path to the pleasure and the longterm goal gets a whole lot easier. So it's not massive things you need to look at and that's where a lot of people end up taking the wrong puffs. It's actually just too much to do and it's really not. It's consistently just the little things. And to your point, looking at 30 seconds of immediate pleasure looking out across and above that and into the future and seeing that, right? If I just leap frog over that go this way, then all of a sudden the results start coming.
Speaker 3: (10:27) Health changes, body changes, how you're feeling changes. And now it becomes easier to make, make more future future decisions by agreed, yes. The habit for me is is the tough part, but consistent little bits each day and work out what are you willing to commit to? What can you commit to? Because a site, a lot of people's at, if you could be 50% further ahead from where you are now, would you take that and everyone goes, well yeah, so it's not like we're asking you to make a huge change. If you can make some a 50% improvement, which percentage wise doesn't sound massive, but some changes that are quiet re give you 50% improvement. That's goal. If you're 50% in three months time than you are today. That's some big improvements from a health point of view. Some big improvements from a fitness point of view, big improvements from a mindset point of view, big improvements from a business point of view. Whatever you apply this to is it gives you some big, some some big wins and I'll ask the question as well. What's the one thing if you did it consistently each day, who would make the biggest difference to your goal? Yeah,
Speaker 3: (11:29) One thing that I'm trying to do. Lots of little things. What's the one thing that will give you the biggest, best bang for your buck? What that out and then just go go at that. Because in a amongst time you're going to be glad this is
Speaker 2: (11:42) In chopping things up into little bits that you can handle when you hear it. You know, it's like that analogy that I've used a lot of times about running through New Zealand and being totally overwhelmed by the thought of this 2000 plus kilometers and mum going to me just get to the Dame through Apple for status. Stop thinking about all that stuff. You know like if I say to, I'm going to eat healthy for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the rest of my life, that's never going to happen. Cause on I myself, I know I'm not always going to win and that's okay. But if I say to myself like, I'm going to have five good dinners this week and I'm going to, I'm gonna not have a takeaways or something, then that's a small goal and I can manage this week and I'm focusing on just one or two things at a time.
Speaker 2: (12:25) There was also, you know, when you, when you make a habit and you, you, you starting to develop a new habit, it takes about 60 days for the brain to be able to actually make a new pathway in the head. So we have what they call neural pathways. Now these are habits that you've formed and connections in your mind that make it, then the brain is very lazy and then it wants to use as little energy as possible. So when you create a pathway in your mind that repeat so behavior over and over again, it goes, Oh, this is easy. And it's, you've got a real big highway. If you can imagine you've made a big deep groove and the in your, in your brain, we're not physically but I a deep highway, that this is where the traffic is going every day and the brain knows this pathway.
Speaker 2: (13:13) It knows this behavior. And so it becomes a, the path of least resistance. So how that translates to habit forming is it in the first few weeks, you're going to find it royally, really tough cause you're going to be running all willpower and decisions and the goals that you've set and having this front of mind and that requires some willpower. But willpower will, will run out on, you can tell you will run out on you. But what doesn't run out on ya is the fact that you've created this new neural pathway, this, you've created this habit. And then it actually becomes easier for the brain to just to, you know, I did the social example. I have a morning routine. I get out of bed, I do some stretching exercises, I go and have a cold shower, horrible. And then I'd gotten him a better leader or a vegetable juice.
Speaker 2: (14:02) And it's not life stuff. It's horrible. You know, it's what, it's what I should be having. And that's the way I start my day. And it's a good thing because I'm sitting my day out. But at the beginning it was like, Oh, this is awful. Now my body does it without even thinking. It just goes. Because that is the habit that I've created over many, many months. And so now it's actually quite normal for me to do it. And it's actually a, I can seal it when I, when I travel and I don't have my blender or whatever with me and I can't do my routine. It's like, Ooh, don't feel like right. Usually because I haven't had that routine to follow. So it gets easier as we do these things. And so just get through those first couple of weeks and then already really it will be easier.
Speaker 2: (14:46) And when you get to 60 days, it'll be a piece of cake, you know? But so the Brian moved type their path of least resistance once you've set that up. So another little trick that I use Neil, and I've done it if you use this one, is if I'm don't feel like training for example, own like, you know, feeling what and I don't really want to and I'm unmotivated and I know that I've got a race coming up or I've got something that I want to achieve. A little trick that I use to get myself going is that I count backwards from five, four, three, two, one. And when, you know, every movie in the world has got that, you know, with, we're going to lift off in 10 seconds, 10, nine, eight, seven, six, even if you just do it from five to one, it creates this impulse of action because you've heard that so many times and you, you, you know, they don't.
Speaker 2: (15:38) Zero, you're going to take off. So, and there's a whole book written on this about just counting down from five to zero. And by the time you get to zero, you'll just go and do without ruminating, without thinking and overthinking. Do I feel like training today? Do I not feel you need a bloody feel like I can tell you when you've had a hard day at work and you know things have gone wrong, you'd just rather go home and I put a bottle of wine. We all feel like that, but if you can go and put your gym clothes on or your running clothes on, I have a bargain with myself. I'm just going to get changed and then I'll say and once I put my clothes on, usually I'm like, cool, I feel more athletic already and I've actually done this thing and I'll, well I'm here now.
Speaker 2: (16:22) I might as well just do a little warmup and see how I feel and then I start warming up and then all of a sudden my body starts to kick into gear. My body warms up, it gets ready for action and then we're off. We're off to the races, but I hate to overcome myself each and every bloody time actually people is, it's not just like, you know, Oh are you one of those motivated athletes who loves to give them the gym everyday? No, there are very many days when I do not feel like going for a run when I do not feel like going to the gym. But that's a little trick that I use to get my app
Speaker 3: (16:56) The road. Exactly. We've been, you know, you said at the start at least it's having that fork in the road and setting yourself up, giving yourself signs valid. I like to put signs that direct me in to that, to the, the right fork in the road. So last night, it's good example. We've we've had a few nights this week. We've had friends around for barbecues and things like that. This morning is, I definitely getting up and going for a run. So I put my spiky ball. I used to roll my feet before a run. I'll stick that on the wood on the workbench before I went to bed last night, made sure I knew where shorts, t-shirt, have fines were for my, my phone's heart goes to my music when I'm running. All those things are out shoes by the front door. So when I got up this morning and walked into the kitchen, all those, they're the signs for me. Right? Not rolling your feet, trying to the, it was, there was no reason because the easy thing to do, if those things weren't there, then all of a sudden I'm off down
Speaker 2: (17:50) The, the other path, and this is what I want everyone listening to understand is the people will look at often look at you and me and other people like this guy and they just get up and do it. It's easy. It's, it's not, it's not. But what we've got better at doing is, is really getting our minds and in the position to make the right decision. And that some of the time you need to, you need to do things like you've described things that I've described where you put your sign up, they put them up, you make it easy. And then you have your your accountability partners in place as well. The people that are going to ask you like in the day, how was your run? The minute I came down to the, to the gym this morning to jump on the podcast with you as I walked in, it was couple of memes I'd already told and couple of the team who had already told I was going running.
Speaker 2: (18:34) First thing else was how did you run feel so much better explained to them how great the run was rather than saying, Oh yeah, so that and that, that's where you start to get the, the feeling success as well and that's the bit you is never no way that I want to walk in this morning and go that didn't do it. So when I saw the people I knew I was going to see, right, they were my accountability partners who are even realizing they were going to be my accountability partner. It says if they pay pressure that they are good prefers. Yeah. And we are all part of a, you know, they talk about the herd mentality and I like to call it like a Wolf pack. Really. You know, you're like, you, you're part of a pack and a when, when someone just exudes a little bit of pressure on you or makes you accountable, it's gonna make you go, you know, it's gonna make you go a whole lot more.
Speaker 2: (19:21) Another example, my husband Heisley, he, he's had a hell of a week. The Farber gave some mess of big fires, you know, lots of overtime, three days, three nights. I haven't seen him in, in a week and tonight on his schedule was a 35 K run because he's preparing for the unity ultra, which we've got coming up in March, which is 84 Ks and you know, I all signed to him last night when if you have another really bad shift night then you know, you might want to shift that. And luckily last night wasn't too bad but he had everything prepared. You know, he had all his gear out, he had the foods that he needed, he hit the water all prepared. He had his literal lights all done. He had prepared his mind all day yesterday for the beta lets coming today. And he just came in the house before to get some headphones and then he ran back out again and carried on his way.
Speaker 2: (20:09) And he's on a mission and he's happy because he's, he's actually doing the thing that he set out to do and he prepared himself for it, even though he's had a hell week. And I've said to him after this, you need a bloody good break and you need to sit and watch YouTube for a while, you know? And then it's okay. And it's understanding that as well that you need that downtime. But that's a classic example of somebody who's prepared themselves and his prepaid, the mind for the battle is to come and he's out there doing it right now. So, you know, and that makes me proud of him and in what he's doing. So home, like we have got the unity ultra coming up. I just wanted to mention that while we're talking about it. So I, I'm invested at for the unity ultra, which is a a 51 mile or 83 K's, I think it is down in Christchurch in March of 2020, if anyone is interested in doing this.
Speaker 2: (21:01) This has been done is a to commemorate the victims of the Moscow techs. And Christchurch, one of the organizers lost his auntie in this horrific event and was moved to as a run out wanting to do something and Koran golfs. And he asked his friend who's a rice organizer and who does a lot of charity events to come and help organize this event. And they're actually over in Bali at the moment, running another event. But this one is going to take place on the 20th of March 20, pretty 20th to 22nd of March. And so it's one day of running, but it's a whole three day of beans around, you know, sinking in, in, in showing solidarity to the people that were affected by this horrific event and honoring the 51 people who died in, they'll see lives. And we're also going to be raising money for the red cross to help refugees who are being set up in New Zealand and needing some help and support around and the, you know, establishing themselves in New Zealand.
Speaker 2: (22:03) So a great cause, a great reason to be doing it. So if anyone is wanting to find out more about that, you can go to the unity oprah.com. And, or reach out to us and we can tell you more. So that was just an a little bit of an aside. But going back to the goal setting into this year, like we're coming up to the end of the year, we've got the new year's resolutions coming in. 90% of people who sit new year's resolutions, I don't know what the actual statistic is, but it's pretty horrific. Do not follow through with it. So I don't be one of those statistics this year. Be one of the ones that's, it's some really good, well thought out goals. Start to understand your why behind these goals and then start to understand what it's going to take to get there, break it down into small bite sized pieces and then start developing the habits that will get you there and understand that you are going to fall off the bandwagon. I knew you're not going to be perfect,
Speaker 3: (23:01) So if you need help then there's a whole process, quite detailed process we take off on through understanding their goals, their purpose, their why, what their purpose in life, what they're doing is, is as we've talked about many times before laces when you achieve your goals, there's a lot of other factors that come into it and that's what we can help you with. If you want to, we can take you through a goal setting session, a purpose session at the start of the year and then tie that back to what you're doing, the chances of you been successful in achieving it. If you've got support around you, if you've got coaching around you. We use, we use coaches ourselves. We use mental, mental ourselves for that reason because we know we're going to be a much higher chance of being successful and achieving our goals if we've got support around us. So we create that around us with own mentors and our own coaches and we can help you guys and go through it as well. So if you need help with it, reach out. Where's the best place to contact this list?
Speaker 2: (23:54) I'm Lisa tammany.com [inaudible] website. And you can contact us via that. You can see all our programs. We have our epigenetics program, which is what Neil was talking about there. So we go through this process, but we go through this with the lens of looking at your particular set of genes. A very an incredible program that we've talked about a couple of times and we are actually going to get onto doing some sessions on the genetics program that we have in the next few weeks. We've been saying it for a couple of weeks and the idea would be to get onto it, but it's actually a really amazing program that will give you insights into your genes, what they're doing, how they're expressing and what recommendations and trying to understand who the heck you are. This is the biggest power in this is not just the food lists and having lists of foods that you're going to, that, that are going to be good for your body and in times of the day that you should be exercising and what types of exercise. But it's also about how your mind works in relation to your genes and how you were, how you were made. You know, it goes right back through embryology when you, and your mom's tummy, how you developed, what we, what energy went into the different systems. And I won't go into it now because it's very, very detailed and scientific and we need our you know, probably five or six podcasts to get through it all. But we have a huge result. So this and we're just,
Speaker 3: (25:20) I'm really my skill set in and finding your purpose easier. Cause once you know who you are, how goal setting process and, and the purpose process becomes so much easier because you've got the tools to really, really, really help you choose the right fork in the road.
Speaker 2: (25:35) Yeah. And understand how you operate. You personally, what is it that your dominant hormones are and how is your mind set up for action? You know, and we know you know, Neil and I worked together and we have both crusaders and this is one of the epigenetic types biotypes and we both very, you know, mission driven and very on a mission all the time and in huge goals and things. And we know that other people operate differently. And we can as coaches now talk to them in a different way, motivate them in a different way because they need to hear different things and what we need cause we taught the person, if that makes sense. So we will be going into all that. If you want to chicken out or really you can help onto our website, at least the lisatamati.com Hit the programs button and you'll see our three programs, our online run training program, our epigenetics program, and our mindset Academy, which is all about mental toughness and developing war emotional resilience and mental toughness. So check those all out. Have a great Christmas guys is upon us account believers and if you're listening to this afterwards yeah, I'm sure we would've had great Christmas. Any last words you want to add to before we wrap up the holiday period? Enjoy the Christmas. Have a great new year guys, and enjoy Tom and your family and loved ones. Yeah, sounds like a bloody good idea to me. So you guys, yeah,
Speaker 1: (27:00) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
16 Feb 2023
How To Slow & Even Reverse Aging with Chris Mirabile
01:06:01
Chris Mirabile is a man on a mission. A man who has faced so much adversity in his life already.
Diagnosed at age 16 with a brain tumour, which spoiler alert he survived to tell the tale about, but also an entrepreneur and powerful spirit who experienced some extreme highs and lows, from being a high flying entrepreneur in the social media space with Hotlist to losing everything to rebuilding life and starting NOVOSLabs a biotech platform aimed at helping people stay younger longer.
He works with world leading scientists like Dr. George Church, PhD — Harvard Medical School & MIT Professor and Dr. Pamela Maher — University of British Columbia to formulate products and to educate on longevity science.
He has also personally been able to slow and even reverse his own age. By 13.6 years according to the "biological aging clocks" they use. You can follow his blog and the results he publishes on his N of 1 experiments at https://slowmyage.com/
Novos Labs mission to help people live healthier for longer and in this episode Chris shares the research on a number of key longevity compounds like:
Ca-AKG
Fisetin,
Rhodiola
Magnesium and more.
If you want to check out what they do at Novos Labs click the link here:
Do you want to know how to slow & even reverse aging, then this episode is for you!
Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati
Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.
Topics Lisa can help with:
Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.
She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.
She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.
Testing Options
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Nutristat
Omega 3 to 6 status
and more
Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .
She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa
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Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two
Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.
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