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Dive into the complete episode list for Presentable. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.

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Pub. DateTitleDuration
24 May 20160: We Have Time to Play Pictionary00:58:30
Erika Hall joins the podcast and we discuss the findings from Google's Project Aristotle. What makes a team perform it's best? What qualities do successful teams share? It's probably not what you think. (This is a sort of prototype we recorded a number of weeks ago, but it's a great conversation, so we're adding it as a sort of bonus episode. Enjoy!)
25 May 20161: Catastrophizing the End of the GUI00:45:31
Special guest Chris Messina joins the inaugural episode of the show to discuss both the hype and beauty of conversational UIs, messaging apps, and chatbots. Will this herald the end of interface design as we know it? (Spoiler: nope.)
12 Oct 201610: Variable Fonts in CSS are Crazy Awesome00:46:21
This week's special guest is my friend Tim Brown, Head of Typography at Adobe. We discuss the recent announcement of Variable Fonts and what that means for type on the web, the complexity of CSS, and the future of responsive web design.
19 Jan 2021100: How to Be of Service00:38:10
Special guest Trent Walton joins the show. He's the founder of Austin, Texas-based design agency Paravel. We discuss how to develop strong, long-term relationships with clients.
31 Jan 2021101: A Progressive View of the Web00:45:14
Special guest and long-time web standards advocate Aaron Gustafson joins the program. He's the author of the seminal book [Adaptive Web Design](https://adaptivewebdesign.info), and we discuss the challenges and opportunities made available with today's Progressive Web Apps.
17 Feb 2021102: Measuring the Carbon Footprint of Our Web Designs00:44:01
Special guest Tom Greenwood joins the show, He's the author of the new book “[Sustainable Web Design](https://abookapart.com/products/sustainable-web-design),” and we discuss how tiny changes in how we code can have a dramatic impact on our carbon footprint.
26 Feb 2021103: The Subtlety and Depth of Sound Design00:41:00
Google's Head of Sound Design Conor O’Sullivan joins the program to discuss how both sounds and silence affect the user experience of products we use every day.
15 Mar 2021104: The Wonder and Rigor of the Creative Process00:39:07
Special guest Natalie Nixon joins the program. She’s a creativity strategist and the author of the book “[The Creativity Leap](https://www.figure8thinking.com/books/)”. We discuss how to cultivate curiosity, improv, and intuition in our work and in our collaboration with others.
31 Mar 2021105: There's No Command-Z in Life00:34:10
Special guest and renowned calligrapher Aoi Yamaguchi joins the program to discuss how she balances the discipline of ancient tradition with the inventiveness of modern art.
16 Apr 2021106: Systems, Outcomes, and a Generational Shift in Design00:42:48
Special guest Sheryl Cababa. She’s the Vice President of Strategy for Seattle-based agency Substantial, and we’re going to talk about how a systems-thinking approach focused on outcomes can benefit the work designers do, and the influence they have.
30 Apr 2021107: Teaching Machines to Tell Stories00:31:37
Special guest JoEllen Kames joins the program. She’s head of design at Narrative Science, and we discuss how to use storytelling to make the world’s rapidly growing data more accessible and empowering.
14 May 2021108: Designing With People, Not at Them00:41:25
Special guest Kelly Ann McKercher joins the program. They’re the author of the book “Beyond Sticky Notes” and we to discuss how to cultivate a mindset focused on co-design to make products and services more equitable.
28 May 2021109: Asking Your Heroes for Help00:33:08
Dallas Texas-based designer and illustrator John Mata joins the program to discuss the fear, uncertainty, and doubt inherent in all creative work, and strategies designers can use in their careers to transcend them.
28 Oct 201611: The Election Isn't Rigged, It's Just Poorly Designed00:58:12
This week on the program, my friend Dana Chisnell is here for a very timely conversation on how the design of ballots affects voter trust in elections. She just finished a 2-year tour with the US Digital Service and has more than a decade of experience in civic design.
17 Jun 2021110: How to Get Unstuck00:42:49
Special guest Julia Whitney joins the program. She's an executive coach with years of experience as a design leader, and we discuss how to avoid getting stuck and thrive both with your craft and in your career.
30 Jun 2021111: Designing Conversations With Computers00:41:21
Special guest and digital experience futurist Preston So joins the program. He's the author of the new book, "Voice Content and Usability” and we discuss the challenges of designing how we talk to machines.
19 Jul 2021112: Transforming the User Experience of Government00:41:23
Special guest Genevieve Gaudet joins the program. She’s the Director of Design for Nava, a firm focused on service design for public sector projects. We discuss the power of design to transform the way people experience their government.
31 Jul 2021113: How Designers Can Thrive in the No-Code Movement00:45:14
Special guest and Chief Creative Technologist at Argo Design Jared Ficklin joins the program. We discuss the interesting trend of "no code" software design, and how it might offer a pathway to understanding in an AI-driven world.
17 Aug 2021114: Is Neurodiversity a Design Superpower?00:35:24
Special guest and Etsy’s head of product design Christina Goldschmidt joins the program to discuss how embracing representation in neurodiversity across our teams can lead to better designed products.
31 Aug 2021115: Designing Better Surveys00:47:04
Special guest and forms specialist Caroline Jarrett joins the program to discuss her new book “[Surveys That Work: A Practical Guide for Designing and Running Better Surveys] (https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/surveys-that-work/).”
15 Sep 2021116: Cultivating the Practice of Effective Feedback00:41:45
Special guest Erin Casali joins the program. She’s a leadership coach and senior director of product design at Xero. We discuss feedback: giving it, getting it, and using it to thrive in your career as a designer.
30 Sep 2021117: Crafting Conversations with Things00:49:25
Special guests Diana Deibel and Rebecca Evanhoe join the show. They are the co-authors of the recent book, “[Conversations with Things](https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/conversations-with-things/)” and we discuss how to design machines so they better understand everyone.
14 Oct 2021118: The Path to Product Management00:48:46
Special guest Emily Tate joins the program. She’s managing director of Mind the Product, and we discuss how product management has kept pace with the rapidly changing way we all work.
08 Nov 2021119: Should You Go to Design School?00:47:10
Special guest Mike Essl joins the program. He’s the dean of the Cooper Union School of Art in New York, and we discuss the role and importance of formal education in the design world today.
11 Nov 201612: Our Tools Give Us Superpowers00:52:15
This week's special guest is my friend Naz Hamid, founder of the design agency Weightshift. We discuss the tools we use to do design: how have they changed over the years, what are we using today, and where do we think they’re going in the future.
19 Nov 2021120: Designing for Life and Death Situations00:47:09
Special guest and design strategist Katie Swindler joins the program to discuss her new book, “Life & Death Design.” We explore how the products we design can more effectively empower people during acutely stressful situations.
30 Nov 2021121: What Do You Want to Be When You Grow Up?00:36:47
Special guest and long-time friend Ryan Carver joins the program. He’s the former CTO of Typekit and creator of the photo layout app Series. We talk about the line between designer and developer, when it’s important, and when it’s definitely not.
22 Dec 2021122: How Writing a Book Can Help Your Career00:42:28
Special guests Katel LeDû and Lisa Maria Marquis join the program. They’re the authors of the new book, “You Should Write a Book” and we discuss the process of sharing what you know and the power of a public persona.
31 Dec 2021123: Finale00:11:12
A look back at the topics, trends, and guests that defined the Presentable in this final episode of the podcast.
23 Nov 201613: So You Want To Be a Design Leader00:50:34
On this week’s program, I’m joined by my friend Andy Budd, one of the founders of British design agency Clearleft. Recently, he organized a conference called Leading Design, we talk about that and discuss what it takes to be a leader in design driven companies, and what it’s like in companies that aren’t.
08 Dec 201614: The Next Billion Users00:45:32
This week's special guest is Rachel Ilan Simpson. She’s part of the design team for the Chrome browser at Google and has been working on features to help support the next billion new internet users coming online in emerging markets. We talk about what it takes to design for people who’ve never used a desktop computer and only know the online world through a phone connected to a 2g network.
06 Jan 201715: The Voice of Slack00:51:38
This week's special guest is Anna Pickard, the Creative Director of Voice and Tone at Slack. We talk about how writing and language that is clear, concise, and human can be the bedrock of a great user experience.
20 Jan 201716: Design at Google Is Like Baseball in Europe00:42:30
Former Global Head of UX at Google Irene Au joins the show to talk about the remarkable change that's happened in design over last 10 years at the search engine giant.
03 Feb 201717: My Dishwasher Really Needs Bluetooth00:54:23
This week, Relay FM co-founder Myke Hurley joins the show to talk about the design of everyday things, the impact of companies like Apple and Slack on how we build things, and why it's so hard to rebrand a business.
15 Feb 201718: So What Is It Exactly That Product Managers Do?00:46:26
This week's special guest is Laura Klein, author of the new book, "Build Better Products." We discuss the evolving role of Product Managers, and how they intersect, overlap, and compliment what User Experience Designers do.
01 Mar 201719: Design Ethics and the Race to the Bottom of the Brain Stem00:45:13
This week's special guest is Tristan Harris, former Design Ethicist at Google and the founder of the Time Well Spent movement. We talk about ethics in design, and how even our best intentions in serving users can often make use of manipulative patterns.
08 Jun 20162: App Fan Art00:50:56
Special guest Richard Ziade, co-founder of Postlight, joins the show to talk about the phenomenon of independent designers crafting their own takes on popular (and frustrating) products. We also dig into Google AMP and the debacle at Nest.
16 Mar 201720: Design Sprints: How to Get Your Boss to Draw in Just 5 Days00:45:58
Special guest Jake Knapp joins the show to talk about how sprints are changing how we do design. He's a Design Partner at Google Ventures and author of bestselling book "Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days."
29 Mar 201721: How We’ll Design for Virtual Reality00:47:19
Game designer Shahid Ahmad joins the show to talk VR. We discuss the design fundamentals of both virtual and augmented reality and look ahead to what the future may bring.
14 Apr 201722: Jessica Hische Is Good at Freelancing00:53:06
This week, one of the best letterers and illustrators in the industry, Jessica Hische, joins the show. We discuss the thrills and anxieties of making a living as a freelancer.
02 May 201723: How to Get Hired, with Jared Spool01:00:00
This week, the legendary and outspoken Jared Spool joins the show. We discuss why most companies are terrible at hiring for design jobs, and what designers can do to take control of their careers and attract meaningful work.
12 May 201724: More Empathy Might Be Making Things Worse00:44:00
User research expert Farrah Bostic joins the show to talk about empathy. That term is in the news a lot lately, and we go deep on its importance in design, how to grow it among product teams, and — very frankly — how it’s frequently misused.
08 Jun 201725: The Tenuous Resilience of the Open Web00:49:20
This week my long-time friend Jeremy Keith joins the program. He’s one of the co-founders of the agency Clear Left, and a frequent author and speaker on what he calls the true nature of the Web. We talk about his new book, Resilient Web Design, and get into the history of technology, how we make decisions about what to use, and how our industry seems to make the same mistakes over and over again.
30 Jun 201726: How to Give Good Feedback00:51:22
Former VP of Design at Twitter Mike Davidson joins the show to talk about giving good design feedback, running design review meetings, and the new Twitter redesign.
14 Jul 201727: Designing Hardware is Insanely Difficult00:51:05
Hardware designer Matt Webb joins the show to discuss why it’s so difficult to design great physical products, how our expectations have changed so much, and why he loves wearing his Snapchat Spectacles to cricket matches.
08 Aug 201728: Everything You Know About Web Design Changed Last March00:52:21
This week we discuss CSS Grid Layout with Jen Simmons, Designer Advocate at the Mozilla Foundation. We also cover how web standards are made, how that's different from the past, and how to keep up with it all.
25 Aug 201729: Designing with Artificial Intelligence: The Dinosaur on a Surfboard00:40:47
Special guest Josh Clark joins the show to talk about the implications of artificial intelligence on design and how designers can start to understand and influence the capabilities and limitations of these incredibly complex systems.
21 Jun 20163: The Typography Show00:53:43
Special guest and old friend Jason Santa Maria joins the show to talk typography. We discuss what typefaces the cool kids are using, dig into licensing and subscription pricing, and geek out over web fonts and browser hacks.
07 Sep 201730: Accessibility is Social Justice00:43:19
This week on the show, we talk to Laura Kalbag about her new book, Accessibility for Everyone. We discuss how digital products have an increasing mandate to be broadly usable by everyone in society, and what we can do to achieve better accessibility in our designs.
26 Sep 201731: Designed in California00:39:26
Justin McGuirk, Chief Curator at the London Design Museum joins the show to talk about their current exhibit, "California: Designing Freedom." We trace how the last 60 years of west coast history influence the design of the products we use today.
11 Oct 201732: Designing the Space You Work In00:46:37
Special guest Sarah B. Nelson, Program Architect at IBM Studios, joins the show to discuss how to hack your office to enable better design work to happen.
02 Nov 201733: The Temptations of Designing with Animation00:34:42
Web animation expert Rachel Naybors joins the show to talk about her new book, Animation at Work. We discuss how to use movement on the Web appropriately through an understanding human perception and cognition.
16 Nov 201734: What User Research Can Learn From Growth Hacking00:40:47
My old friend Hiten Shah joins the program. He’s the founder of numerous successful startups and mentor to many others. We discuss growth hacking, how it differs from formal user research, and how to make products people love as quickly as we can.
28 Nov 201735: Promoting Yourself as a Designer (And the History of Dribbble)00:51:47
My old friend Dan Cederholm joins the show. His work at Simplebits was profoundly influential in the early web, but he may be best known as the cofounder of Dribbble. We talk about this history of that community as well as what it’s like to build a reputation as a designer today.
22 Dec 201736: User Research as an Agent of Corporate Change00:43:09
This week, Google Design Director Jens Riegelsberger joins the show to discuss how user research can fundamentally help organizations make better decisions — and not just about the design of their products.
16 Jan 201837: Do Diverse Teams Really Make Better Products?00:40:55
This week, Carissa Romero joins the show. She’s a parter at Paradigm, a consulting firm focused on helping companies become more diverse and inclusive. We discuss the research that shows how teams with more diverse members create better products.
31 Jan 201838: Design vs Capitalism01:08:03
My good friend Erika Hall returns to the show. She’s a founder and principal at Mule Design, and author of the forthcoming book "Conversational Design." We talk about the role of designers as critical voices in the ethical decisions companies make and the morality of venture capital in sustainable business.
21 Feb 201839: The Challenge of Starting a Design Career00:45:43
Special guest Kristy Tillman, Director of Communication Design at Slack, joins the show to talk about what it's like to start a design career today, mentorship vs. sponsorship, and whether you should kickstart your portfolio with free work.
07 Jul 20164: You've Got to Learn to Talk Numbers00:36:10
This week, I'm joined by my good friend Margaret Gould Stewart, Vice President of Product Design at Facebook. We talk about what her title actually means, what it takes to be a design leader, and how to think about a career in design these days.
28 Feb 201840: Driving UX Research at Uber00:44:11
Special guest Molly Stevens, Director of UX Research for Uber, joins the show. We talk about what it’s like to manage research with a distributed team for a company that does business in countries around the world.
14 Mar 201841: What to Do With a Seat at the Table00:52:55
Special guest Kate Aronowitz joins the show. She is a design partner at Google Ventures and was previously in design leadership positions at Facebook, Welathfont, and eBay. We discuss the opportunities and responsibilities of designers as they advance in their careers, gain more influence, and achieve that fabled seat at the table.
30 Mar 201842: Can We Design Better Meetings?00:51:42
Kevin Hoffman joins the show to discuss his new book: Meeting Design. We talk about applying the design process to the meetings we have every day, how to evaluate them, improve them, and mercifully kill them when they need to go.
06 Apr 201843: Google AMP vs the Web00:42:58
Special guest Andrew Betts of the W3C Technical Advisory Group joins the show to discuss Google AMP: how it works, whether we should use it, and if it's a threat to the open web and to society overall?
27 Apr 201844: How Not to Screw Up Your Brand00:47:34
Special guest Jason Santa Maria returns to the program in his new role as Design Director of Slate. We talk about a recent redesign and rebranding he did, and how to manage change both internally and with your users.
07 May 201845: How Does Design Get Made?00:44:57
Special guest Josh Brewer, CEO and co-founder of Abstract, joins the show to discuss how we make design — from mockups to prototypes to production and through collaboration, process, and everything in between.
19 May 201846: Design at Massive Scale00:45:34
Authors Chris Risdon and Patrick Quattlebaum join the show to discuss their new book “[Orchestrating Experiences: Collaborative Design for Complexity](https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/orchestrating-experiences/)”. We dig into the challenges and opportunities that arise when managing design at massive scale.
27 Jun 201847: The Oral History of Information Architecture, with Lou Rosenfeld00:50:43
My old friend Lou Rosenfeld joins the program. He co-authored the seminal book on Information Architecture in the '90s, and now runs Rosenfeld Media, publishers of some of the industry's best books on UX. We go deep into the history of the discipline, and how it's playing out in a new generation of designers today.
23 Jul 201848: Designing a Less Distracting Future00:47:19
Preëminent and prolific Apple pundit Jason Snell joins the show to discuss new features designed by Apple in iOS 12 responding to the backlash against Silicon Valley’s engagement-at-all-costs user experiences.
31 Jul 201849: Flexible Typesetting00:42:19
Adobe's Head of Typography Tim Brown returns to the show to discuss his new book, ‘Flexible Typesetting,’ and how the implications of emerging font technologies are challenging what designers can (and should!) try to control in their layouts.
21 Jul 20165: The Color Show00:57:54
Special guest Craig Hockenberry, bigwig at the IconFactory and creator of Twitterrific, joins the show. We go deep on color management, how the new Apple hardware changes things, and what it all means for web and app designers.
28 Aug 201850: Learning How to Listen00:50:58
Special guest and Adaptive Path co-founder Indi Young joins the show. We discuss the origins of mental model research, and how it has become an ever-more powerful tool for building inclusive products.
13 Sep 201851: An Oral History of Web Standards With Jeffrey Zeldman00:57:31
Designer, author, speaker, publisher, podcaster and longtime friend Jeffrey Zeldman joins the show to reminisce on the origin of the Web Standards Project and it's legacy 20 years on.
24 Oct 201852: The Helvetica of Banks00:46:45
Special guest Hugo Cornejo joins the show. He’s the head of design for the London-based online bank Monzo. We discuss the user experience of people’s money and the importance of design in building trust.
31 Oct 201853: Who is the Head of Product?00:43:33
Special guest Martin Eriksson joins the program. He’s the co-founder of the Mind the Product conference and the co-author of the book Product Leadership. We discuss the role of Head of Product: who are these people, how did they get there, and what do they do?
16 Nov 201854: Don’t Design Alone: Cultivating Communities of Practice00:42:51
Agile consultant and coach Emily Webber joins the program to discuss ways in which people can get better at their work by tapping into (or building) support networks around them.
04 Dec 201855: 10,000 Steps to Building a Great Product 00:44:50
Special guest Tim Roberts joins the show. As the first product person at Fitbit, he saw the company as it grew through it’s IPO and beyond. We talk about scaling teams and managing growth.
11 Jan 201956: How to Present Your Work00:56:27
Special guest and founder of Mule Design, Mike Monteiro, joins the show. We discuss why presenting your work is such a crucial skill, and how so many designers get it wrong.
29 Jan 201957: Using Design to Hack Government Bureaucracy00:44:07
Andy Lewandowski, UX designer at the United States Digital Service joins the show to discuss the challenging redesign of the Veterans Affairs website.
14 Feb 201958: Designing Around Digital Privilege00:55:48
Special guest Helen Joy joins the program. She’s a UX consultant focused on universal and inclusive design practices. We discuss what that means in the day-to-day work we do as designers, and how hard it can be to see through our digital privilege.
28 Feb 201959: How to Price Design Services00:45:24
Special guest and Superfriend.ly founder Dan Mall joins the show to talk about his book, “Pricing Design.” We tackle one of the hardest parts of being a designer: asking for money.
05 Aug 20166: It Takes a Village to Build a Website00:50:43
Special guest Deepa Subramaniam, Director of Product for the Hillary Clinton campaign, joins the show to talk about what it's like to manage a web team for an 18-month long sprint while the whole world watches.
14 Mar 201960: How to Tell if a Company Is Good at Design00:46:03
Special guest Leah Buley, director of design education at Invision, joins the show. We talk about ways of measuring the maturity of an organization’s design practice, and how you might improve yours.
29 Mar 201961: The Dark Art of Designing for Print00:41:32
Special guest and paper expert Matthew Scharf joins to the program to remind us all that print is wonderful and analog makes us feel good.
30 Apr 201962: Design Systems Are for People01:03:18
Special guest and design system expert Jina Anne. She’s spent 15 years designing for companies like Apple, Salesforce, and Amazon. Today, we discuss how the state of the art in design systems is being driven by a community of dedicated "hybrids."
21 May 201963: Designing a Less Terrifying Home Buying Experience00:44:21
Special guest Paul Smith, head of design for real estate startup Opendoor, joins the show to discuss managing rapidly growing teams and the challenges of designing a holistic experience for an incredibly stressful life event.
31 May 201964: On Creativity and How to Get Unstuck00:52:35
Creativity evangelist and author Denise Jacobs joins the show to discuss the difficulties designers face in the creative process and how to get unstuck.
13 Jun 201965: Fonts in iOS 13: Why They Matter00:50:36
Former head of Adobe Fonts and good friend Matthew Rechs joins the program to sort through Apple's announcement at WWDC that fonts will be coming to iOS 13.
28 Jun 201966: Apple After Jony Ive00:46:04
Special guest Myke Hurley returns to the program. He’s the co-founder of the Relay FM podcast network and host of Connected, a podcast focusing on Apple. We discuss the company’s recent announcement that Chief Design Officer Sir Jony Ive is leaving to start a new design studio.
17 Jul 201967: The Art of Resilience00:49:33
Special guest Lara Hogan joins the show. She’s a co-founder of Wherewithall Coaches and Trainers and author of the new book, Resilient Management. We discuss the qualities that help teams thrive and how you can contribute whether you’re a leader ... or aspire to be.
29 Jul 201968: How Design Ruined the Internet00:46:34
Special guest and old friend Mike Monteiro returns to discuss his new book, “Ruined by Design.” We talk about whether the design industry needs a set of ethical standards and the ways in which they might be enforced.
27 Aug 201969: Slow Down. Take a Breath. Look Around. Design Something.00:53:37
Special guest Jason Fried, the founder of Basecamp and 37 Signals, joins the program. We talk about approaching work more thoughtfully, thinking on longer horizons, and how to slow down and find inspiration around us.
23 Aug 20167: Why Don't Style Guides Ever Work?00:48:25
This week's special guest is Stanely Wood, design director at Spotify. We talk about how to scale design as companies grow, what it takes to create consistent experiences, and how style guides never work except when they do.
17 Sep 201970: Hacking Great Design From Startup to Megacorp00:46:50
Special guest Sally Carson joins the program. She is head of product design for Duo Security, which is now part of Cisco. We discuss how to sneak good design into the journey from small startup team to large enterprise.
30 Sep 201971: Creativity Still Needs to Pay the Rent00:40:46
Special guest and old friend Bryan Mason joins the show. He's the Chief Business Officer of photo company VSCO and former co-founder of Typekit. We talk about the hard work of operationalizing creative talent.
12 Oct 201972: Changing the Power Dynamics of Design Critiques00:42:10
Special guest and old friend Braden Kowitz joins the program. He's the co-founder of Range and former design partner at Google Ventures. We discuss the delicate art of the design critique and building trust within teams.
06 Nov 201973: Alexa, Design a Voice App for Me00:41:12
Special guest Michael Hood joins the show. He's the co-founder and head of product at VoiceFlow, and we discuss emerging best practices for designing voice user interfaces.
15 Nov 201974: Can You Do Real Design on an iPad?00:46:04
Special guest Harold Emsheimer joins the show. He’s the co-founder of design agency Overcommitted and joins us to talk about using the iPad as a tool for doing professional design work.
22 Nov 201975: Shouldn't More Designers be CEOs?00:44:59
Special guest Jeff Khan joins the show. He’s the CEO of Rise Science and we discuss the unique opportunities designers have as entrepreneurs, and how that can change the outcome for startups.
27 Nov 201976: Craft Is a Journey00:53:21
Weightshift founder and good friend Naz Hamid joins the show to discuss how designers evolve in their careers and what maturity of craft really looks like.
19 Dec 201977: How Likely Are You to Recommend This Podcast to a Friend?00:48:21
Good friend Erika Hall joins the show to talk about the second edition of Just Enough Research. We talk about the methods so many people get so badly wrong.

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