Next Up: Narcissism (Dr. Jaime Zuckerman)

In this episode, Dr. Z delves into the complex dynamics between narcissistic mothers and their adult daughters. She discusses how the behavior patterns of narcissistic mothers challenge societal norms of the mother/daughter relationship and have a profound impact on their daughters’ self-esteem and mental health.

Dr. Z also addresses the grieving process daughters of narcissistic mothers must go through once they come to accept the relationship will never be what they hoped for. She emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and offers practical strategies for managing these dynamics. 

Tune in to this episode of Next Up: Narcissism for Dr. Z’s compassionate and empowering insights, aimed at helping listeners break free from narcissistic abuse and move towards a healthier, happier life.

Quotes

• “With narcissistic moms, they love their children in conditions. They love their children so long as the child is, at any age, doing what is expected of the narrative that has been given to them since birth. So, since birth, you get a narrative. You are to play that role your whole life. That role is meant to put you in a certain pattern that the narcissistic mom is able to control and manipulate. Because remember, with narcissists, the main goal of narcissistic behavior is to gain power and control, to take away your autonomy, to take away your sense of self.” (09:11 | Dr. Z) 
• “Do narcissistic moms love their kids? They love them when they are performing as the narcissist wants them to perform. They love them so long as the child is doing what is expected of them.” (11:07 | Dr. Z) 
• “Start to gain objectivity to your narcissistic mom’s behavior and the reality of who you are, because the reality of who you are is not connected to her. She’s just made you think that for so long. Your ability to make decisions independent of her exists. It always existed… Once you realize that you can exist separately from a narcissistic mom, your entire world opens up. You realize that you are capable of doing whatever you want to do, as long as you understand that you will never get the support that you want from your mom, unless it benefits her.” (37:40 | Dr. Z) 

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

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https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

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“It is such a buzzword right now, which is good and bad,” says Dr. Z of the word narcissism. “We hear the terms narcissism and narcissistic abuse everywhere.” In this debut episode of “Next Up: Narcissism,” Dr. Z, a licensed clinical psychologist and narcissistic abuse expert, reconnects with her listeners to establish her mission: to provide accurate information for understanding narcissism and its impact on relationships, untangling the complexities of narcissistic abuse.

Delving into the ABCs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), Dr. Z gives an overview of key concepts and behaviors linked to narcissism and narcissistic abuse. She discusses the narcissist's routine avoidance of accountability as well as their attempts to socially isolate their partner. She also explains concepts like gaslighting and DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender), a common strategy used to confuse and manipulate people into doubting their own reality.

Dr. Z also discusses the absence of empathy within NPD and how this absence manifests into early relationship behaviors such as future faking and love bombing. Additional relational behaviors common to NPD such as hoovering and boundary violations disguised as "you’re my soulmate" are also explained. 

This episode also touches on the harsh realization one faces as they come to truly understand the full extent of the abuse they have endured along with the often quiet suffering secondary to fear, shame, and isolation. 

Dr. Z aims to educate and empower her listeners with accurate knowledge, skills, and strategies to not only recognize the red flags of narcissistic abuse early on, but to also begin their healing process.

Quotes

• “There are so many TikTok and Instagram therapists out there that aren’t really therapists and giving inaccurate information. What I do think is essential to treatment when I'm working with somebody who is a survivor of narcissistic abuse are survivor stories. They are so unbelievably important in the journey of healing. In addition to survivor stories, you must make sure that the information you're getting, the treatment that you're getting, the suggestions that you're getting, and the strategies that you're getting are from a qualified mental health professional who is a specialist in this field.” (03:27 | Dr. Z) 
• “We know narcissists are routinely avoiding accountability. They will not take accountability for any of their behaviors or the hurtful consequences of their behaviors. They just won't do it.” (07:04 | Dr. Z) 
• “We care about other people. We care about their emotions. We want other people to be well. Narcissists don't—only if it benefits them. But again, it's fake empathy. Narcissists are amazing at faking empathy.” (13:41 | Dr. Z)
• “Hoovering is a calculated move in which the narcissist does something to suck you back into the abuse cycle.” (23:40 | Dr. Z)
• “Being in a relationship with somebody who has a narcissistic personality disorder, whether it's a parent, a friend, a colleague, your spouse, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, it doesn't matter. It's going to constantly feel like a yo-yo. It's a constant push and pull.” (54:50 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“I was in a quintessential trauma bond with my ex-husband, the ‘Wolf of Wall Street,’ Jordan Belfort,” says Dr. Nadine Macaluso. “It started, as most trauma bonds do, with love bombing and promises of love and adoration forever, along with extreme affection. It was very intense and fast-paced, and then it blew up like many trauma bonds do.” 

Dr. Nadine, also known as Dr. Nae, is an author and licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in trauma bonds, narcissistic abuse, complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (CPTSD), and somatic therapy. In this episode, Dr. Nae joins Dr. Z to share her own personal story of narcissistic abuse survival, including the psychological, emotional, financial, and legal challenges she faced within her own relationship with Jordan Belfort. She discusses her healing journey, and how her experiences navigating her own trauma bonding put her on the path to help those in similar circumstances. Dr. Nae emphasizes that the abusive behavior of a partner is never the victim’s fault, and that there is always hope and a path to healing.

In addition to her extensive clinical work, Dr. Nae is the author of “Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide to Recognizing, Healing, and Escaping from Trauma Bonds.” Her work offers insights into identifying the signs of narcissistic abuse and how to break free from trauma bonds. 

This episode is a powerful message of hope and resilience, encouraging listeners to recognize their own worth and seek the support they need to reclaim their sense of self. 

Quotes

• “When he first wrote the book, which later became a movie, I just remember thinking inside, ‘I survived this incredible Greek tragedy,’ because that’s what it always felt like—the depth of the pain I had endured. And now it’s entertainment. Inside, I just said to myself, ‘You know, Nadine,’—I fought and wrestled with myself—but then I said, ‘This is bigger than you, and you have to surrender to this.’” (18:43 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso) 
• “We can’t build resiliency in isolation. The only way we can build authentic confidence is to approach what we fear. And so, with the help of people, never by myself, I just kept approaching life.” (27:20 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso) 
• “It really wasn’t spoken about, and it’s so great that it is now because it is a very isolating experience with so much shame and embarrassment. There’s just so much to climb through to get out of it. Then you have children and financial dependency, and the court system, right? It works against all of us in breaking free and getting healthier. Yet, here we are today having this conversation. My book was a labor of love; it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I don’t think I’ll ever do that again. It was a very humbling experience.” (40:03 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso) 
• “Trauma lives in the body. It’s an experience that overwhelms us, and our nervous system, unfortunately, integrates it… After a trauma bond, you feel so unsafe in the world. How do I get people to feel safe in their bodies? With breath work, grounding exercises, and really listening to their bodies. This helps them contain their feelings because there’s so much emotional dysregulation that happens. As we know, our thoughts and minds aren’t always our best friends. I always say the true self lives between your throat and your pelvic floor.” (42:08 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso) 

Links

Connect with Nadine Macaluso:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealdrnadine/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drnaelmft

Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide to Recognizing, Healing, and Escaping from Trauma Bonds: https://amzn.to/3KRssRF

Website: https://drnae.com/

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“When we talk about narcissistic abuse, we understand that this form of abuse is very nuanced and hard to identify as an outsider,” says Dr. Z. This episode dives into the emotional and complex challenge of supporting someone in a narcissistic abusive relationship, as Dr. Z unpacks the intricate dynamics at play.

Narcissists often start with a phase known as “love bombing,” which can make it hard for friends and family to spot the red flags early on. This initial charm gradually gives way to isolation and control, leaving the person feeling confused and trapped in the relationship.

Dr. Z sheds light on the subtle tactics narcissists use to distance their partners from their support networks and systematically dismantle their sense of self. For those watching from the outside, it can be incredibly frustrating and heartbreaking, often leaving them wondering, “How can I help without pushing them further away?”

Instead of confronting your loved one, which could inadvertently strengthen the narcissist’s hold, Dr. Z recommends offering steady, unconditional support. She highlights the importance of being a consistent presence, creating a safe space for them to return to when they’re ready to break free. Through practical advice and empathetic guidance, Dr. Z emphasizes that patience and persistence are essential in helping your loved one eventually escape their abusive relationship.

Quotes

• “Coercive control is very difficult for somebody on the outside of the relationship to identify.” (02:40 | Dr. Z) 
• “Narcissistic abuse, especially that kind of coercive control, is often not visible to the outside world, even to those closest to you. What people on the outside are really starting to see is this very slow, insidious stripping of their loved one’s self-identity. It’s not sudden; it’s gradual. This started from day one, in the love bombing stage.” (15:50 | Dr. Z) 
• “Since your loved one is being manipulated, controlled, and abused—and as the relationship progresses, so does the abuse—that will happen. That’s a given.” (16:59 | Dr. Z) 
• “That’s a horrible feeling. A truly horrible feeling—watching someone you love slowly start to slip away from who they are, and from you as well. What you need to do, and as difficult as this is going to be, is to stay connected with them no matter what happens in their relationship. No matter how different or disconnected they become, do not disconnect from them.” (32:19 | Dr. Z) 

Links

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“In today’s society, we’re often taught that these are two very separate things,” says Dr. Z as she delves into the impact that narcissistic abuse can have on physical health. “It couldn’t be further from the truth. Our brains and our bodies are one, and you really need to think about yourself in terms of how those two things are connected.”

In this episode, Dr. Z highlights how narcissistic abusive relationships can manifest physically within our bodies, leading to chronic conditions such as headaches, joint pain, menstrual cycle changes, high blood pressure, stomach issues, vision changes, hair loss, skin rashes, respiratory infections, and even autoimmune disease flare-ups. There are also a myriad of cognitive issues that can arise such as forgetfulness, poor attention and concentration, difficulty making everyday decisions, and a pervasive sense of fogginess and fatigue. Dr. Z explains how these issues stem from the body’s response to chronic stress resulting in elevated and prolonged spikes in cortisol levels (our stress hormone). While our brains and bodies are equipped to deal with short term stressors, exposure to the long-standing trauma and the stress of narcissistic abuse keeps the body stuck in a constant state of heightened alertness, leading to chronic inflammation and a wide range of long standing health problems.

She addresses the challenges many narcissistic abuse survivors face within the medical field, as several of their symptoms appear to have no immediate or identifiable cause. It is not uncommon for abuse survivors to be told that many of their medical complaints are “in their head,” or “just due to stress.”  This often leaves survivors feeling confused and invalidated by medical professionals. 

Dr. Z also discusses the limitations of “talk therapy” as a standalone treatment approach for trauma, and strongly advocates for a comprehensive approach that acknowledges physical symptoms with a heavy focus on nervous system regulation. She also stresses the importance of a holistic approach, emphasizing the need to integrate breathing exercises, muscle relaxation, and mindfulness practices into specialized trauma informed therapy. 

This episode reassures listeners that their symptoms are normal responses to abnormal situations and offers concrete strategies and tips for those who are experiencing physical health problems resulting from narcissistic abuse in their relationships. 

Quotes

• “Being in the field of psychology, I was trained to understand that the body and the brain are one. They are not separate entities. And in today’s society, we’re often taught that there are two very separate things: there’s our mind and there’s our body and they do not interact. And it couldn’t be further from the truth.” (02:26 | Dr. Z) 
• “Our brains and our bodies are one and you really need to think about yourself in terms of how those two things are connected. To only consider one at a time is really not giving you the full picture and not going to help you understand why it is that your body’s responding a certain way in a narcissistic abusive relationship.” (02:24 | Dr. Z) 
• “You are not crazy. In fact, far from. Your body is actually doing what it’s supposed to be doing. The problem is that you’re not being chased by a tiger. You’re in a relationship where you are being coercively controlled, manipulated, and abused. And because of that chronic nature and that cycle of narcissistic abuse, you’re on a dimmer switch. You’re constantly being jolted with these releases of chemicals that are elevating inflammation in your body that are keeping you sick.” (27:56 | Dr. Z) 
• “There is a very good reason for why these things are happening. And I promise you that as you gain the strength to leave the narcissistic abusive relationship or to set serious limits and boundaries, you’re going to notice a direct impact on your physical health.” (28:56 | Dr. Z) 

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

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Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The trauma is always going to be a significant component of who you are,” says Sasha Joseph Neulinger, the founder of Voice For The Kids and co-founder of Step 1 Films. Joining Dr. Z in this episode, Sasha reflects on his journey from surviving years of sexual abuse to reclaiming his life with purpose and self-empowerment.

Sasha shares the pivotal role of his autobiographical documentary “Rewind,” which began as a deeply personal exploration of his childhood but became a beacon of hope for survivors of sexual abuse around the world. He discusses the challenges of breaking free from cycles of intergenerational trauma, the courage it takes to confront family dysfunction, and the sacrifices involved in setting boundaries.

How does one truly heal when the wounds of trauma run deep? Sasha and Dr. Z touch on the ongoing nature of healing, and discuss how intentional choices and consistent effort can lead to transformation. They tackle the complexities of self-love, navigating estrangement, and finding strength in creating a healthier future.

Sasha’s insights remind us that healing isn’t a straight path, but each step forward is a testament to resilience. This episode offers wisdom and inspiration for anyone seeking to heal from trauma and create a life rooted in authenticity and hope.

Quotes

• “When we talk about the challenges of multi-generational trauma and multi-generational abuse, and why it’s so hard to break that cycle, it’s because the wound that wasn’t dealt with by the person who received it gets put behind their back.” (14:36 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger)
• “The trauma is always going to be a significant component of who you are. But to say, ‘Okay, it’s a part of my story, but it doesn’t define the trajectory of my life’—that’s an important distinction.” (27:00 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger)
• “​​Intention plus effort times consistency equals manifestation.” (35:31 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger) 
• “Healing is not a destination; it’s a journey. You heal something inside of yourself, and it gives you the opportunity to see something else that you could put love towards.” (47:54 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger)

Links

Connect with Sasha Joseph Neulinger:

https://www.voiceforthekids.com/

https://www.rewinddocumentary.com/

Watch REWIND on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/movies/rewind/93564a65-dd03-34e2-a863-2fb0d15bd91b

Watch REWIND on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Rewind-Sasha-Joseph-Neulinger/dp/B086M33121

https://www.instagram.com/sjneulinger/

https://www.facebook.com/@SashaJNeulinger

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“This is for everyone. Everyone needs to learn how to identify the reg flags within the family court system and how to navigate this process, particularly in custody cases when you have very little support behind you,” begins Dr. Z. Joining her this week are Dr. Christine Marie Cocchiola, known as Dr. C, a coercive control educator and researcher, and Amy Polacko, an award-winning journalist and divorce coach. Both women, having survived domestic abuse, have turned their personal pain into a mission for change. Their newly released book, “Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld,” shines a spotlight on the damaging impact of coercive control and systemic injustices women face in family court.

Dr. C and Amy share their deeply personal stories that emphasize how their experiences—and those of many other women—demand attention, action, and change. They pull back the curtain on a court system that too often fails to protect women, allowing abusers to continue their control and manipulation tactics through legal and financial strategies.

Beyond their individual stories, Dr. C and Amy tackle the broader issue of post-separation abuse and the emotional, psychological, and financial weight it carries for survivors. They question how society views romantic relationships, pushing for more awareness around coercive control and promoting healthier relationship dynamics for the future. This episode is both a validation for survivors and a rallying cry—how can we come together to support survivors and demand meaningful changes in the family court system?

Quotes

• “This is the overriding reason we wrote this. Yes, we want to validate and support victims—absolutely. But we want the masses to read this. We want the masses to hear about Rachel Pickrel-Hawkins, and be pissed off, frankly. So, by the time they get to the call to action at the end of our book, they are committed to doing something about it because it’s going to take more than just us in this world.” (09:08 | Amy Polacko) 
• “By looking beyond the violent incident model and understanding what people often mix up is the idea that coercive control is invisible abuse. No, it’s not. Intimidation is certainly not invisible. Stalking is not invisible. Someone calling you horrible names is not invisible. These are visible, tangible things, and once you’re out of it, you realize, ‘Oh, that was abuse.’” (12:25 | Dr. Christine Marie Cocchiola) 
• “Women are damned if they do and damned if they don’t in many ways. If you stand up for yourself, if you try to protect your children, you are penalized. There’s this overwhelming feeling, along with the misogynistic tropes, that they should just go with the flow.” (42:27 | Amy Polacko) 

Links

Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld Book: 

https://narcfreepress.com/

https://amzn.to/3Tl95EW

Please leave a review here: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/216871358-framed?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=uOOkkfQF8y&rank=1

Connect with Dr. Christine Marie Cocchiola:

https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

Connect with  Amy Polacko:

https://www.instagram.com/freedomwarriortribe/

Mindfully Messy hoodies now available!

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Coercive control is about trying to take away someone’s autonomy and their agency,” explains Laura Richards, a renowned criminal behavioral analyst and expert on domestic violence. In this episode, Dr. Z sits down with Laura and dives into the concept of coercive control, a form of domestic abuse that is often misunderstood and frequently dismissed. 

Dr. Z and Laura discuss the misuse of terms like “narcissistic abuse” and “toxic relationships,” stressing the importance of proper terminology and identification to prevent further harm. Laura also highlights the long-standing societal variables at play that are responsible for perpetuating domestic violence within relationships.

The conversation explores high profile cases of domestic violence such as Gabby Petito and Lauren Dunne Astley to illustrate coercive control and its tragic outcomes. Laura discusses the media’s portrayal of domestic violence in relationships, noting how it often memorializes male perpetrators while perpetuating victim-blaming.

Laura also shares her tireless efforts to have coercive control legally recognized as a form of domestic abuse, emphasizing the need for continued advocacy, improved education, and increased awareness. Her incredible work aims to change societal attitudes and legal frameworks to provide better protection and support for victims of coercive control. 

Quotes

• “We have to think about coercive control in a micro way, in a macro way. And really, it’s about trying to take away someone’s autonomy and their agency. It’s about utter domination of the individual. So the perpetrator looks to subjugate them and reduces their autonomy and their agency so that they focus on the perpetrator’s needs. It’s about an unfreedom. And it’s quite important that we think about coercive control and the abuser. What are they seeking to achieve?” (06:59 | Laura Richards)
• “I really want people to just think about these terms—toxic relationships—but the relationship on its own is not the problem. It’s the abuser. And we have to focus on them and name them to help the victim understand what’s happening to them because 52% of victims don’t even know that they’re being coercively controlled; because as women and girls, we’re conditioned that men hold power.” (14:51 | Laura Richards) 
• “Women don’t hold power and that’s the power imbalance. That’s what coercive control is about—a power imbalance. So I’ve put the word on freedom, but also power imbalance that’s being exploited. And it can be exploited at family court, in civil court, in criminal court, because those systems are created by men to protect men. So what I’m trying to do is reverse that process. And that’s why it’s girls and women who are oppressed. Men are not oppressed. They are the ones who hold power.” (53:36 | Laura Richards) 

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Connect with Laura Richards:

https://www.youtube.com/@crimeanalyst

https://www.crime-analyst.com

https://wondery.com/shows/real-crime-profile/

www.thelaurarichards.com

https://www.dashriskchecklist.com/

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/laurarichards999/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/crimeanalyst/?hl=en

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@crimeanalystpod?lang=en

Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurarichards99

https://twitter.com/thecrimeanalyst

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“It’s a big problem in our society that women are just not believed the first time because people think they’re trying to get attention or money,” Dr. Z explains, addressing the pervasive disbelief of women who report abuse. In this episode, she delves into how societal skepticism, particularly through the lens of recent high-profile cases such as  P. Diddy and Cassie, can portray women who report abuse as seeking attention or financial gain.

Dr. Z highlights eight multifaceted reasons that keep women stuck in abusive relationships: fear of escalated violence when leaving, financial dependency, lack of alternative shelter, minimal social support, inability to recognize the abuse as “abuse,” erosion of self-identity, unemployment, and concerns over child custody. These factors are compounded by the overall lack of societal support and understanding of domestic abuse. This episode calls for a societal shift to better support and believe abuse survivors the FIRST time.

Quotes

• “We should believe women the first time. We’re so caught up as a society in assuming that people are bad and lying. But I want people to understand that why on earth would somebody go through such a traumatic situation? And for what? Why?” (07:37 | Dr. Z)
• “You need to understand the absolute identity breakdown that occurs in these types of relationships. You are mentally brainwashed. You are not in a position to just leave. Think about cults for a second… When they leave, they have to be deprogrammed and they have to go through this whole rigorous process to alter their way of thinking that has been implanted in them for so long. So why is it so difficult for people to understand that that same process—maybe varied here and there—is exactly what happens in narcissistic abuse? That’s the whole point. Control and manipulation—that’s it.” (11:04 | Dr. Z) 
• “This is why women don't come forward… You can tell I'm extremely passionate about this. I have been really angry at the Diddy/Cassie comments that I have been seeing, especially that ‘it takes two to tango.’ That’s one of the most ignorant comments I can think of.” (36:15 | Dr. Z)

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“They actually thrive and enjoy being in this drama, trauma, and chaos, getting people stirred up,” says Rebecca Zung, describing high conflict personalities. In this episode, Dr. Z talks with Rebecca, a top-ranked trial lawyer, high conflict negotiator, and international bestselling author of “Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win.”

Rebecca explains that while those with high conflict personalities will often demonstrate narcissistic traits, this does not necessarily mean they have a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Dr. Z emphasizes the importance of understanding the function of someone’s behavior, or the underlying “why” behind it. This helps when formulating responses and implementing boundaries with a high conflict individual. 

The episode covers Rebecca’s S.L.A.Y. (Strategy, Leverage, Anticipate, and You) method for negotiating with high conflict personalities, offering practical advice for those facing high conflict divorce or custody battles. Rebecca details each component of her SLAY method, highlighting the need to create a vision, build leverage within the dynamic, anticipate their next moves, and maintain a strong, self-focused mindset.

Packed with insights and how-to strategies, this episode of Next Up: Narcissism is a valuable resource for anyone dealing with high conflict personalities and narcissistic abuse.

Quotes

• “A high conflict personality literally thrives on constantly stirring the pot in every area they can, all the time, no matter where they go. It’s almost like Pigpen in Charlie Brown, who always had that cloud around him. That’s how it is with a high conflict personality. Wherever they go, there’s always something brewing.” (05:21 | Rebecca Zung) 
• “People with high conflict personalities, narcissistic personalities, or even just extreme narcissistic traits, they're not going to therapy and getting diagnosed. And if they do, it’s either court mandated, or they go once then they don’t come back again. They go to a million different therapists until they find one that’s going to buy into their bullshit. And that's what happens… And I think also, with social media, certain people don’t get away with certain things anymore. And people have more knowledge about it. So we’re hearing about it more. Are people misdiagnosed by society? Yeah, they are… Narcissism is a very distinct thing.” (10:52 | Dr. Z) 
• “My S.L.A.Y. method is the blueprint. I call it a blueprint as well. It’s basically a roadmap to get exactly where you want to go, to win your negotiations, to win in court, to win in communication, whatever it is that you want to do. It’s a four-step playbook to help you visualize where you want to go and then just create the plan.” (20:44 | Rebecca Zung) 

Links

Connect with Rebecca Zung:

https://shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=2303615&u=4279579&m=139677&urllink=&afftrack=

Slay Your Negotiation with a Narcissist: 

https://shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=2319861&u=4279579&m=139677&urllink=&afftrack=

SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win:

https://amzn.to/3WibKBw

For the FREE Crush My Negotiation Prep Playbook:

https://winmynegotiation.com/

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“If you and your partner are experiencing friction, consider whether there are things going on in your lives—whether it’s a few really big chronic issues, a lot of little constant acute issues, or a mix of both—that could be contributing to this,” advises Liz Earnshaw, a licensed marriage and family therapist, certified Gottman therapist, and founder of A Better Life Therapy.

In this episode, Dr. Z shifts the focus from narcissistic relationships to the everyday stressors that impact healthy partnerships. Joined by Liz, known for her popular Instagram account “@Liz Listens” and her books “I Want This to Work” and “Till Stress Do Us Part,” they delve into how external pressures can fuel relational friction. 

What are the stressors in your life that might be affecting your relationship? Liz encourages couples to identify and list these stressors, a simple yet effective practice that can lead to greater empathy and cooperation. She also discusses different partner types—such as avoidant or indifferent—and shares concrete strategies for improving communication and setting healthy boundaries within your relationships. 

Liz introduces a structured approach to managing stress, helping couples distinguish between what they can shed, prevent, or adapt to. By aligning actions with core values and addressing how conflict avoidance with others can impact the relationship, she provides a roadmap for couples looking to strengthen their bond. These insights offer a practical guide for anyone aiming to build a resilient partnership rooted in clear communication, empathy, and intentional choices.

Quotes

• “The first piece I think is really important is if you and your partner are experiencing friction, consider whether there are things going on in your lives—whether it’s a few really big chronic issues, a lot of little constant acute issues, or a mix of both—that could be contributing to this.” (05:10 | Liz Earnshaw) 
• “What I’ve noticed with the couples I’m working with is that they're mismanaging the amount of stress they bring into their lives without considering the long-term repercussions. A lot of this stems from saying yes to too many things and putting immense pressure on ourselves to do more, accumulate more, and live a big life.” (20:20 | Liz Earnshaw) 
• “One thing I think is really important for people to do is to consider their North Star. What I mean by that is, where are you and your partner heading as a family? Where do you want to be? This has a lot to do with your values. For example, if your North Star is to create a safe and secure family, build a stable financial future, or live an adventurous life, it should reflect what you and your partner value as a family—your combined family values.” (35:19 | Liz Earnshaw)

Links

Connect with Liz Earnshaw:

elizabethearnshaw.com

https://www.instagram.com/lizlistens/

Til Stress Do Us Part book: https://amzn.to/4dSHpPP

I Want this to Work book: https://amzn.to/3X3JXnw

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The abuser often maintains that facade of having it together and looking after their partner. It’s that image we tried to set up immediately,” says award-winning director Jack Stockley. He opens up about his true purpose behind his short film “Purgatory,” - to reveal the quiet devastation of coercive control in abusive relationships. By portraying the abuser as charming and well-composed, Jack exposes a disturbing duality that keeps the abused partner isolated and questioning their own reality. His film’s nuanced storytelling challenges viewers to see beyond appearances and recognize the silent suffering hidden beneath the surface.

In this episode, Jack joins Dr. Jaime Zuckerman to discuss the behavioral nuances of his film and the often subtle patterns of narcissistic abuse. How do you depict domestic violence without showing physical violence? And what makes coercive control so difficult to recognize, even when it’s happening right in front of us? Jack shares how “Purgatory” uses subtle details, such as visual cues and carefully crafted dialogue, to immerse viewers in the isolating, and often invisible, world of psychological abuse. This episode encourages us to look deeper into the patterns of narcissistic abuse, so that we can recognize red flags sooner. “Purgatory” is not only a compelling film but an essential conversation starter on the realities of narcissistic abuse.

Quotes

• “So you start the film questioning, ‘What’s her problem?’ Right from the beginning, it mirrors how many abusive relationships seem from the outside. You think, ‘Well, she’s a bit messy,’ or ‘He’s holding it all together.’ The abuser often maintains that facade of having it together and looking after their partner. It’s that image we try to set up immediately.” (08:44 | Jack Stockley) 
• “When a woman leaves a narcissistic, abusive, grossly controlling relationship like that, the time she’s most at risk for harm to herself and her children is when she leaves—or if they find out that she’s going to leave, or right after she leaves. That’s the highest time for violence. So it isn’t simply a matter of just leaving; it’s about leaving safely.” (16:00 | Dr. Z)
• “As a storyteller, as a filmmaker, to me, those subtle details and nuances that convey coercive control and emotional abuse are the most important. It’s the lifeblood of the film because you have to make it.” (29:33 | Jack Stockley) 
• “People don’t talk about the fact that rape can exist in a marriage. It can exist in any relationship. It’s not something that happens only between strangers in the park. It’s not a cliché, but people don’t talk about it. People don’t think that it’s a real thing.” (35:19 | Jack Stockley) 

Links

Connect with Jack Stockley: Follow Jack Stockley on Instagram: @thereal_jps

Follow Blue Muse Productions on Instagram: @bluemuseproductions

Visit Blue Muse Productions YouTube channel to watch Purgatory: https://www.youtube.com/@BlueMuseProductions

Jack's newest short film - Flying - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jezw_c9UwQs

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Be a kid. What did you love doing as a kid? Don’t forget those little moments because that’s when you’re carefree and just doing all the things—play, have fun," advises Karena Dawn, a renowned figure in the fitness and wellness industry. In this episode, Karena and Dr. Z explore the journey of healing after narcissistic abuse, drawing from Karena’s personal and professional experiences.

Karena shares how during her personal therapy journey, she came to the realization that her own mother had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It was this awareness that helped her gain a better understanding of their complicated relationship, fueling her commitment to healing. She emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care, and discusses how reconnecting with her childhood joys and love of fitness became integral parts of her recovery.

Through her initiatives, Tone It Up and The Big Silence, Karena promotes the therapeutic power of exercise, meditation, and mindfulness. Dr. Z and Karena offer practical advice for healing, and stress how this is a comprehensive process, encouraging listeners to find what works best for them.

Quotes

• “It is not easy. And then I started Tone It Up to share the message of fitness, movement, and mindfulness. And now with The Big Silence, talking about mental health. It’s all taken what I went through in my youth, and then figuring out how I healed myself naturally. And then opening up that stigma with The Big Silence so that other people don’t have to suffer in silence.” (21:01 | Karena Dawn)
• “Do you think people should cut family members out if they are narcissists? I think it depends on the situation. You’re talking about situations where it was so bad; where your cortisol levels were through the roof to the point where you’re getting skin rashes, which means your entire body’s inflamed, right? And so this is why, obviously, why I wanted to have you on, but also for people to understand just how connected our mind and our bodies are.” (31:09 | Karena Dawn & Dr. Z) 
• “Be a kid. What did you love doing as a kid? Don’t forget those little moments because that’s when you’re carefree and just doing all the things—play, have fun.” (40:02 | Karena Dawn) 

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Connect with Karena Dawn:

https://karenadawn.com/

https://my.toneitup.com/

https://www.instagram.com/karenadawn/

https://www.instagram.com/the.big.silence/

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

With a real, raw, and relatable approach, clinical psychologist and narcissism expert, Dr. Jaime Zuckerman, takes a hard look at narcissistic abuse and its devastating effects across relationships of all types. Next Up: Narcissism explores all things narcissism and mental health; educating listeners on the patterns of narcissistic abuse, including gaslighting, love bombing, and coercive control. Listen in each week as we breakdown these toxic behaviors, and offer concrete strategies and actionable steps to help you navigate these toxic relationships. Through in-depth discussions, Q&A’s and expert guests, you will learn the skills and tactics to unravel this web of chaos, helping you to move forward into a healthier, happier and healed life.

“I really want to change the culture and the way we treat and value ourselves in the equation. I truly believe our stories have the power to change culture,” says Dr. Jessi Gold, reflecting on her book, “How Do You Feel? One Doctor’s Search for Humanity in Medicine.” In this episode, she joins Dr. Z to talk about the mental health struggles facing healthcare professionals, especially the high rates of burnout and the stigma attached to seeking help.

Dr. Gold sheds light on how medicine’s culture often equates overwork with competence, which is a mindset that has only worsened during the COVID-19 pandemic. What will happen when we start recognizing burnout for what it truly is? Dr. Gold stresses the importance of open conversations about mental health and the need to break the silence that keeps so many healthcare providers from getting the support they deserve.

Dr. Gold shares practical tips for managing mental health, like building strong support systems and practicing self-compassion. But more than that, Dr. Gold also stresses the need for a cultural shift—one where the well-being of healthcare providers is just as valued as the care they offer patients. What would medicine look like if we made that shift? Dr. Gold and Dr. Z’s hope is that by confronting these systemic challenges, real, lasting change will take root within the medical community.

Quotes

• “This is such a needed book, and it applies to everyone, not just people in the medical field. I think people assume that if you’re in medicine, you don’t experience anxiety, depression, or other struggles. But what I always tell people is that just because you’re an oncologist doesn’t mean you can’t get cancer, and just because you’re a dentist doesn’t mean you can’t get cavities.” (02:40 | Dr. Z)
• “I really want to change the culture and the way we treat and value ourselves in the equation. I truly believe our stories have the power to change culture... Stories can start conversations, and conversations can change systems. They just can. And there are a lot of systems at play here that do need changing.” (03:58 | Dr. Jessi Gold) 
• “You want the people treating you to be healthy. You want them to not have foggy brains… And it’s not just about physicians, nurses, or mental health providers. It’s also about us as patients. We need people who are on the ball, right? So, it’s such a systemic issue; it’s not just the providers.” (08:17 | Dr. Z)
• “Burnout is an independent risk factor for suicidal thoughts. It’s not just part of a constellation of symptoms, but rather a stepping stone—a stepping stone to depression, a stepping stone to suicidal thoughts, a stepping stone to substance use, and even things like car accidents. We tend to manage burnout like it’s just, ‘Oh, the workplace did that to you, and work was hard,’ but it’s so much more than that. It’s pervasive, and it really affects people’s lives.” (17:52 | Dr. Jessi Gold) 
• “Meaning and purpose are protective against burnout. It sounds super woo-woo and strange, like, ‘Yeah, what’s meaning and what’s purpose?’ But really, it just means you chose to do this for a reason. It’s easy to lose that in the context of systems and things that are interfering with what you’re doing. How do you ground yourself in that? Sometimes, it’s just about reminding yourself in some way.” (23:13 | Dr. Jessi Gold) 

Links

Connect with Dr. Jessi Gold:

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/How-Do-You-Feel/Jessi-Gold/9781982199777

Website: https://www.drjessigold.com/

https://www.instagram.com/drjessigold/

https://www.tiktok.com/@drjessigold?lang=en

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“People are so quick to label somebody antisocial or narcissistic. Just because you disagree with someone, or they lied to you, or they treated you really poorly, or they were manipulative, doesn’t mean they have narcissistic personality disorder. But they can certainly have traits,” says Dr. Lina Haji, a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist and licensed mental health counselor.

Dr. Haji joins Dr. Z in this episode to talk about the nuances of personality disorders, particularly the differences between narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder. How can one tell the difference between a narcissist and someone who is antisocial? And why does it matter? They explore the overlap—like lack of empathy and accountability—while also making it clear that while not all narcissists engage in criminal behavior, even though their actions can still be deeply harmful.

This episode also touches on one of the most frustrating issues for both professionals and clients: misdiagnosis. Dr. Haji explains why narcissistic personality disorder is so often mistaken for bipolar disorder, and how that mix-up can lead to the wrong treatment. Are mood swings the same as bipolar disorder? Dr. Haji points out that no, they’re not, and that recognizing the differences is key to addressing unhealthy patterns of behavior. 

Listeners will gain a clearer understanding of these complex personality disorders. More  importantly, they’ll feel empowered to recognize toxic behavior, regardless of formal diagnosis. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to make sense of the personality dynamics in their relationships and take control of their own emotional well-being.

Quotes

• “‘Antisocial’ really refers to somebody who goes against the grain, who goes against social norms. And to put it even more clearly, basically someone who has criminal tendencies, if you will.” (05:42 | Dr. Lina Haji)
• “For somebody to meet criteria for antisocial personality disorder, they do have to meet criteria for conduct disorder, which is essentially antisocial personality disorder in kids and adolescents.” (11:52 | Dr. Lina Haji)
• “People are so quick to label somebody antisocial or narcissistic… Just because you disagree with someone, or they lied to you, or they treated you really poorly, or they were manipulative, doesn’t mean they have narcissistic personality disorder. But they can certainly have traits.” (13:00 | Dr. Lina Haji)
• “Narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder, even psychopathy, is on a continuum. So somebody can be the world’s biggest a-hole and still not meet criteria for any of those personality disorders.” (13:12 | Dr. Lina Haji) 
• “People with psychopathy, people with narcissistic personality disorder, people with antisocial personality disorder, if you look at their behaviors, they’re typically very self-serving, which tells me they know exactly what they’re doing because it’s a means to an end… I believe people with those personality disorders know exactly what they’re doing and just don’t care.” (28:06 | Dr. Lina Haji)

Links

Connect with Dr. Lina Haji: www.risepsychological.com

https://www.instagram.com/rise_psychological_services/

Watch World’s Most Evil Prisoners: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/0GIXJX2M9XISMHB7LR9DI9STS9/ref=share_ios_season

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Check out my on-demand workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Money is just the vehicle in which they do it,” explains Dr. Z, referring to “financial abuse,” a common manipulative tactic used by those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). In this episode, Dr. Z delves into the damaging impact of financial control in narcissistic abusive relationships, especially within marriages. She discusses how narcissists exploit financial dominance to manipulate their partners, emphasizing the need to identify and recognize these often subtle behaviors early in the relationship.

Dr. Z explains how, particularly in the early stages of a relationship, these behaviors are frequently overlooked as being truly genuine. However, she warns that these seemingly generous acts are nothing more than love-bombing behaviors with the goal being to gain control over the other person. Dr. Z also provides examples of financially abusive behaviors including restricting their partner’s access to funds, withholding money, extreme and unnecessary micromanaging of their spending, and running up debt in their partner’s name without their knowledge- all of which create a significant financial dependency, leaving the person with very limited options to be able to exit the relationship. 

Dr. Z also offers crucial advice for those affected by financial abuse, suggesting various strategies to regain financial independence within these relationships. 

Quotes

• “In the beginning of a relationship, financial abuse starts as love bombing, in a sense... In the beginning stages of a relationship, it gives you a sense of comfort. It makes you believe that this other person is invested in you because they’re making these long-term plans with you where your finances are interconnected.” (03:19 | Dr. Z) 
• “It’s not even about the money. It’s the function of that behavior, withholding money or being in total control over it. That’s what it's about. It’s about control, manipulation, and power. Money is just the vehicle in which they do it.” (12:52 | Dr. Z) 
• “One of the biggest reasons why people stay in these relationships is that financially, they cannot leave. They feel stuck.” (18:01 | Dr. Z)
• “Narcissists do not want you to be independent from them because it’s less control for them, less power.” (19:37 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Your face reveals the truth before your words do—Annie Särnblad unpacks how microexpressions expose deception and hidden emotions. Joining Dr. Z, she discusses the relationship between our facial expressions and emotional states, and offers insights that could change how you perceive everyday interactions. 

What are microexpressions, and why do they matter? Annie explains that they are involuntary movements that reveal genuine emotions, often before we’re even aware of them. These universal signals can bridge gaps in understanding, but they also uncover uncomfortable truths, especially when dealing with deception or narcissistic personality disorder. 

Narcissists often mask their true feelings, yet their microexpressions can betray them. What does it mean when someone’s face shows arousal or excitement at another’s pain? Annie and Dr. Z explore how this subtle behavior reveals deeper emotional truths. 

By learning to recognize these cues, you can better navigate challenging relationships and detect dishonesty more effectively. This episode invites you to see the hidden stories written on the faces you encounter.

Quotes

• “With a grown-up, you may be asking someone in front of you, ‘How are you feeling today?’ And they go, ‘Great.’ And they pucker their chin. Well, they’re not really feeling great. That’s their body leaking. The microexpression is a leakage of emotion.” (07:04 | Annie Särnblad)
• “When I see somebody actually showing arousal, joy, or getting a thrill, getting off on someone else’s suffering, that to me is a red flag that there may be some psychopathy.” (41:43 | Annie Särnblad)
• “That intuition that we get, that feeling in our gut, like, ‘I don’t like that person. I don’t know what it is. I can’t figure it out. They just creep me out.’ What we’re picking up on are microexpressions. Yes, and probably other things too, like smell, body language, tone of voice… I’m looking for the disconnect, where the facial expressions and the words aren’t matching. If that’s a consistent thing, this isn’t good. This is a big red flag to stay away. And you’re going to combine that with other pieces that just don’t match.” (48:48 | Dr. Z & Annie Särnblad)

Links

Connect with Annie Särnblad:

https://anniesarnblad.com

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/annie.sarnblad/

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@anniesarnblad

https://anniesarnblad.com/book/

Annie has a new online course, the Reading Humans Masterclass. More information is here: https://anniesarnblad.com/courses/reading-humans-masterclass/

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The reason why it’s important to know what the myths are about narcissistic abuse and narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is so that we can formulate healthy, effective, boundaried responses,” explains Dr. Z as she offers essential insights and debunks five myths about NPD and narcissistic abuse.

Dr. Z breaks down the misconception that narcissists routinely gravitate towards those with low self-esteem, poor self-image, and low self-confidence. She explains how narcissists actually prefer surrounding themselves with confident and successful people because stripping them of their autonomy  and sense of self provides them with higher doses of power and control. She also clarifies that narcissists can in fact control their anger and rage and use it to strategically manipulate others. Dr. Z goes on to discuss how those with NDP are resistant to change, often resulting in an unwillingness to seek therapy or maintain any meaningful behavioral changes. 

By debunking these five common myths, Dr. Z aims to provide listeners with a clearer understanding of NPD to empower them and help them gain the skills to recognize and protect themselves from this abuse.

Quotes

• “The reason why it’s important to know what the myths are about narcissistic abuse and narcissistic personality disorder is so that we can formulate healthy, effective, boundaried responses. Because if we don’t understand what’s accurate or not with narcissistic personality disorder, it doesn’t give us the opportunity to come up with some really effective strategies and ways to respond in these types of situations.” (01:27 | Dr. Z)
• “Can narcissists not control their anger? Narcissists are extremely skilled at controlling their anger and controlling their outbursts… A narcissist uses their anger as a manipulative strategy. They are very much aware of when they're angry, how they get angry, and to whom they're going to be angry at.” (14:51 | Dr. Z) 
• “It’s so important to understand these myths because you can see if you don’t understand them, your responses to narcissistic behavior are really going to continue to just keep you stuck. And it’s so important to be able to separate yourself from the myths and separate yourself from the unhealthy patterns so that you can see objectively what you need to do to remove yourself from the situation.” (41:11 | Dr. Z) 

Links

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“I thought I met the man of my dreams, and he turned out to be one of the biggest con men in history,” shares Benita Alexander, a highly accomplished journalist and executive producer. In this episode, she joins Dr. Z to recount her harrowing experience with love fraud at the hands of Dr. Paolo Macchiarini. Benita’s story, featured in the Netflix documentary “Bad Surgeon: Love Under the Knife” and the Wondery podcast “Dr. Death,” serves as a chilling reminder that even the most intelligent and successful individuals can fall victim to the manipulative blueprint of narcissists. 

Benita met Macchiarini during a vulnerable period in her life. His charm and apparent empathy quickly drew her in, leading to a whirlwind romance. However, as their relationship progressed, red flags began to emerge, which Benita initially dismissed due to Macchiarini’s convincing explanations. 

Dr. Z and Benita explore the psychological impact of such a profound betrayal, emphasizing the difficulty of recognizing, and escaping from, a narcissistic abusive relationship. They discuss how factors such as intelligence and success do not necessarily immunize one from becoming vulnerable to this type of abuse. Benita’s courageous decision to go public with her story underscores the need to raise awareness about the dangers of people like Macchiarini, who exploit their victims’ trust for personal gain.

Exploring the complexities of narcissistic abuse, the insidious nature of love bombing, and the resilience required to rebuild one’s life after such a traumatic experience, this episode serves as both a cautionary tale and a source of inspiration for those who may find themselves entangled in similar situations.

Quotes

• “Any narcissist’s worst fear is the collapse—falling from the pedestal, their reputation being destroyed.” (36:35 | Benita Alexander) 
• “It takes so much courage for a woman to come forward and expose herself like that. And then, on top of it, to get attacked—it’s the reason people don’t talk about this kind of thing. That’s what’s so concerning to me because if we stay quiet and if women don’t feel comfortable enough to come forward and talk, it’s going to keep happening. These people—narcissists, con artists, sociopaths, whatever you want to call them—count on you being quiet. They count on you being too embarrassed and humiliated to talk. That’s why the lies keep escalating, because they don’t think they’re ever going to get caught.” (58:59 | Benita Alexander) 
• “I think it’s also important to realize—very, very important—not to blame yourself. I mean, what was your crime? You fell in love. You wanted to trust the person you fell in love with, and that’s a very normal thing. You didn’t do anything wrong. You were vulnerable. When you’re vulnerable and you fall in love, there’s a reason they say love is blind. But you never expect something this extreme to happen. You never expect someone to be lying to you about literally everything."  (01:05:41 | Benita Alexander) 

Links

Connect with Benita Alexander:

https://www.benitaalexander.com/

Follow Benita Alexander on Instagram and Tiktok: @benitaalexander_official

Listen to her podcast on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFkA9DcX8W0&t=457s

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The liability is not yours to own; it’s the narcissist’s. Let it smother them, not you.”

Dr. Jaime Zuckerman takes a closer look at what life looks like when a narcissistic ex still finds ways to create chaos, even after the relationship has ended. How does one protect their peace and their children’s well-being when post-separation abuse seems designed to undermine it? From stirring up conflict with their children’s teachers and coaches to resurfacing hidden debts, the narcissistic ex can remain a powerful disruptor. Dr. Z shares practical insights for those navigating these situations, including how to set boundaries, how to communicate openly with children, and how to address character smear campaigns without giving the narcissist the attention they crave. 

This episode is both empowering and validating, reminding listeners that while they may not be able control the narcissist’s behavior, they can control their own responses. Dr. Z’s guidance offers a path to reclaiming stability, peace, and resilience amidst ongoing challenges with a narcissistic ex.

Quotes

• “The narcissist will deliberately sever your ties with people because it further isolates you. It causes increased damage to your relationships. But most importantly, it’s one of the only ways the narcissist still has control over you.” (05:11 | Dr. Z)
• “With a narcissist, you want to give them nothing. You don’t want to give them that stage because just like the family courts, a kids little league is a stage for the narcissist to perform. Period. End of story. And the best way you handle that is by giving them nothing. The more attention you give them, the louder it gets, the more engaged in their acts the narcissist becomes.” (14:46 | Dr. Z)
• “Even though it’s embarrassing as hell, and even though you’re so angry, you’re keeping the liability on the narcissist, and that’s where it needs to be. The liability is not yours to own; it’s theirs. Let it smother them, not you.” (33:32 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Narcissists routinely love to ruin meaningful moments,” says Dr. Jaime Zuckerman as she unpacks the challenges of dealing with narcissists during the holidays while offering strategies to help you stay grounded and in control. How do you handle the unsolicited comments, the manipulative behaviors, or even the intentional chaos they bring to gatherings? Dr. Z encourages listeners to prepare for these moments rather than hoping for change, using boundaries and neutral responses as tools to maintain your own sense of peace.

Dr. Z also touches on the difficulties surrounding co-parenting during the holidays, as well as the emotional strings tied to gift-giving. She provides actionable advice to defuse conflict while protecting your mental well-being. Dr. Z explains how seemingly small and neutral actions are most effective in shifting power dynamics, such as a simple “thank you” or having a pre-planned exit strategy.

This episode is a guide to navigating the holidays with clarity and confidence. Dr. Z reminds listeners that while you can’t control others, you can control how you respond—and that alone can make all the difference.

Quotes

• “Narcissists routinely love to ruin meaningful moments.” (04:49 | Dr. Z)
• “You’re not changing their behavior. That’s not what this is about. This is about you gaining control over the situation.” (10:50 | Dr. Z)
• “It is necessary for you to set boundaries. It is necessary for you to stay neutral. It is necessary for you to sit with the discomfort and regulate your nervous system. This is essential because we know that birthdays, holidays, major events, promotions, and graduations are the times when narcissists love to perform. Do not give them the platform.” (30:06 | Dr. Z)
• “A boundary only doesn’t work if you don’t keep setting it... The purpose of boundaries is for you to walk away feeling empowered and more in control, leaving them standing there with the accountability of the conversation on them. What they choose to do with that accountability is up to them—they’re not going to take it, but at least it’s not yours to carry.” (30:54 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Dr. Z's Holiday Help Handbook: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/store/p/dr-zs-holiday-help-workshop-l3ss7

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

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Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

What manipulative tactics are used to maintain control and power over former partners once the relationship is over? In this episode, Dr. Z unpacks the emotional fallout of a breakup with a narcissist and tackles the fears that arise when they move on to someone new. Why does it feel like their new partner is getting the idealized version of them you tried so hard to keep? And what does this reveal about their behavior patterns?

Dr. Z explains the dynamics at play—from character assassination to love bombing— and how these behavior patterns are part of a cycle, not a transformation. She also covers practical strategies, like going no-contact and setting boundaries, to protect yourself from the emotional chaos narcissists create.

Is it worth you warning the narcissist’s new partner? Dr. Z shares why this often backfires and why the best way to reclaim your peace is by focusing on your own happiness and living your best life. This episode is a reminder that healing starts with understanding the function behind a narcissist’s actions and choosing to prioritize your well-being.

Quotes

• “One of the things I find with several of my patients is that there’s this fear, as irrational as they may know it is, that this new person is going to get this idealized version of your ex. Meaning, they’re going to get the ex that you spent the entire relationship trying to get back. That was the person who was love bombing you from the beginning of the relationship. That’s really what you were chasing the entire relationship: to get that back—what could you do to get that back? Sometimes it would be dangled in front of you, only to be taken away. You never knew when it was going to show up because there was no rhyme or reason, and that’s one of the things that kept you so locked into this toxic dynamic.” (01:56 | Dr. Z)
• “The narcissist can’t afford to have alone time. Why? Because a narcissist basically does not exist unless they have people in their orbit giving them supply. That’s their lifeline. Without that, they don’t exist. So, if they break up with you, or you break up with them, they’re never going to be alone. This is one reason for the high likelihood of infidelity—they need backup. They need someone in the wings should you leave, or they leave you. More likely than not, the narcissist had other people. And I’m talking about both men and women here, as women can be narcissists too. So, in most cases, there will be other people.” (06:10 | Dr. Z)
• “Somebody who is a narcissist is a narcissist always in every domain, in every aspect of their world.” (08:51 | Dr. Z)
• “The best form of response to a narcissist is to live your absolute best life.” (31:31 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

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Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Today, the word “narcissist” is frequently thrown around and used within inappropriate contexts, such as a broad label for “toxic” individuals. How, then, do we differentiate between someone with unhealthy patterns and the manipulative behaviors of a person with NPD?  In this episode, Dr. Z talks with Dr. Les Carter, a clinical psychologist and founder of Surviving Narcissism, who provides deep insights into narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) including its specific cognitive processes and behaviors.  

The discussion highlights the critical differences between those who display narcissistic patterns due to upbringing and those with a true NPD, emphasizing that the latter rarely changes due to a lack of internal values and inability to self-reflect. However, despite the challenges of treating someone with narcissistic “traits,” Dr. Carter shares a rare success story of a family member who overcame their narcissistic tendencies through personal crisis and therapy.

Dr. Carter explains that while those with NPD often react defensively to being labeled, they do possess a level of awareness about their manipulative actions, often acting secretly and evasively. The episode also delves into the concept of “dark empathy,” where narcissists use their understanding of others’ emotions for manipulation rather than connection. Dr. Carter notes that true empathy is hard to cultivate in those with NPD, especially older individuals. 

Quotes

• “When they hear the word narcissist, it’s almost as though there’s a pathological fear that they have regarding that word. It’s like, ‘You’re not calling me that word, are you?’ And they just think of it as a dirty name, which tells you something already because if you’re being an objective person, then you would just say, ‘Why don't we talk about it? If you’re asking that question, I’d be more than happy to discuss it with you,’ which would be a very non-narcissistic way of responding. So the question is, do they know that they are being narcissistic? What they know is that you’re an idiot.” (02:57 | Dr. Les Carter) 
• “Narcissists do know that there’s something foul that they’re doing that offends other people, which is why they’re secretive, etc. But then the rationalization ingredient can become so powerful and so strong and so overwhelming that it overrides the truth.” (10:38 | Dr. Les Carter) 
• “You’re going to be able to tell most about an individual’s level of personal maturity by watching how they respond to conflict. And because healthy people can manage it... When you have somebody that’s on that extreme end of narcissistic personality and you bring this to their attention, they’re going to rationalize it. They’re not going to admit to anything. They’re not going to want to talk about any conflict. They’re not going to want to find a resolution unless the act of finding a resolution benefits them in some way.” (35:12 | Dr. Les Carter & Dr. Z)

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Virtual Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Connect with Dr. Les Carter:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SurvivingNarcissism/featured

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/survivingnarcissism101

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/survivingnarcissism101/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/SNarcissism101

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Understanding narcissism isn’t about excusing it. It’s about equipping yourself to break free and protect your mental health, especially during times of heightened emotions like the holidays.  

In this episode, Dr. Z is joined by Wendy Behary, expert in cognitive and schema therapy and author of “Disarming the Narcissist.” Together, they unpack the complexities involved in managing the dynamics with a narcissist. Wendy defines the role of empathy, not as sympathy or agreement, but as a tool for understanding narcissistic behavior, discerning your place within the dynamic, and strengthening your internal boundaries.

Wendy shares strategies for navigating interactions with narcissists, including maintaining neutral, confident communication and recognizing personal triggers. She also introduces the concept of schemas—deep-rooted emotional beliefs formed in childhood—and explains how identifying these patterns can help mitigate vulnerabilities within a narcissistic relationship.  

Join Wendy and Dr. Z as they share actionable strategies to help you protect your peace this holiday season, nurture your well-being, recognize your progress, and stay grounded in challenging moments.

Quotes

• “The problem with empathy is the word itself—empathy. Too many people hear ‘empathy’ and think ‘sympathy.’ You hear ‘empathy’ and think ‘compassion.’ It’s neither. Empathy, in really simple language, is ‘understanding.’ So, it’s not about having empathy for the narcissist; it’s about having empathy about narcissism—and your particular brand of narcissist that you may be dealing with.” (12:28 | Wendy Behary)
• “Empathy is not agreement. Empathy is not endorsement. Empathy is not support. Empathy can lead to compassion for someone in your life—not necessarily the narcissist, though it can for therapists. It certainly can when we develop a better understanding of what’s happening deep at the core for those narcissists who are actually willing to work on themselves. Some want to work on themselves, or at least have succumbed to the idea that they really need to. I think differentiating empathy—or just calling it a deep, skin-felt understanding of how something works and why it is the way it is—becomes part of your freedom ticket.” (14:44 | Wendy Behary)
• “Empathy means to know, to understand, to get, to sense. Know yourself. Where am I the most at risk? When does that level of intensity strike me, where I go into some defensive position when I have nothing to defend, when I start apologizing?” (19:11 | Wendy Behary)

Links

Connect with Wendy Behary, LCSW:

http://www.schematherapytrainingonline.com/p/empathic-confrontation-wendy-behary0

https://disarmingthenarcissist.com/

https://www.facebook.com/wtbehary

linkedin.com/in/wendy-behary-269a8a16

Instagram: @donsanddivas https://www.instagram.com/donsanddivas/

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Get my Holiday Help Handbook: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/store/p/dr-zs-holiday-help-workshop-l3ss7

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The narcissist will never be able to fix their corrupt disorder. It is a rigid disorder,” says Vanessa Reiser, a licensed clinical social worker and author who specializes in narcissistic and cult abuse. She joins Dr. Z to talk about the striking similarities between narcissistic relationships and cult dynamics, focusing on how coercive control plays a role in both. 

Drawing from her own life experiences and professional background, Vanessa shares insights from her book “Narcissistic Abuse: A Therapist’s Guide to Identifying, Escaping, and Healing from Toxic and Manipulative People.” She breaks down how narcissists deploy tactics like gaslighting, isolating their victims, and enlisting enablers (often called “flying monkeys”) to keep control. But how does this connect to cult-like dynamics? Vanessa explains that these methods work by stripping away a person’s identity that will trap them in a mental prison that’s just as damaging as the control seen in actual cults.

This episode reminds listeners of the resilience required to break free from these toxic environments and the importance of building supportive relationships that will help individuals reclaim their identities. Vanessa’s insights offer valuable tools and strategies for overcoming these challenges that encourage listeners to seek help and validation as they move toward healing and self-empowerment.

Quotes

• “A real cult is always led by somebody who’s trying to control, groom, and manipulate others to get supply and attention. We see this in intimate relationships and families. What they’re doing is using the classic tactics of narcissists to manipulate others to do what they want. They will isolate and get you to basically only view their opinions.” (05:01 | Vanessa Reiser)
• “There’s this misconception that people who get sucked into ‘these cults’—whether it’s a cult of one, within a family system, or on a larger scale hiding behind a religious organization—have low self-esteem or no backbone. That’s not true… It’s important for people to understand that it has nothing to do with intelligence. The myth that you’re a weak person comes from the fact that once you’re in this cult—whether it’s a cult of one or something larger—the whole point is to gain control and power over you. And with that comes the loss of self-identity.” (07:48 | Dr. Z)
• “A narcissist will never be able to fix their corrupt disorder. It is a rigid disorder.” (16:49 | Vanessa Reiser)
• “A narcissist is allergic to your power and autonomy. They want to groom you and keep you ignorant, unaware, and not in the know.” (36:25 | Vanessa Reiser)

Links

Connect with Vanessa Reiser: 

https://www.facebook.com/vanessa.pugliese

https://www.instagram.com/vanessareiserlcsw/

https://x.com/vanessareisersw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrYVROGoPdYqsEFkr2XYC9A

https://amzn.to/3XPf9ad

Connect with Dr. Z:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The decision to go no contact with a parent is a last resort. It is a last resort of self-protection against years of manipulation and abuse,” says Dr. Z. She explains how going no contact means cutting off all forms of communication—calls, texts, and social media—and is a decision that is typically made only after enduring long-term emotional pain. It’s a decision never made lightly, as it often comes with feelings of tremendous guilt, grief, and loss.

In this episode, Dr. Z sheds light on the societal pressures that make it difficult for people to understand why someone would sever ties with a parent. She emphasizes that it’s not the adult child’s responsibility to fix a relationship with a narcissistic parent, particularly when that parent refuses to take accountability. 

Dr. Z also touches on the importance of behavioral consistency when going no contact, warning that inconsistent boundaries can actually increase the chaos. She outlines the manipulative tactics that narcissistic parents might use to regain control, such as guilt trips or recruiting other family members to pressure the person back into communication. Breaking no contact, she warns, usually offers only a temporary relief before the abusive behavior resurfaces.

Dr. Z offers reassurance to those children who have made the difficult decision to go no contact. She reminds listeners that protecting their mental health is a courageous, yet difficult, step. Seeking peace and clarity is essential, and they are not alone in this journey.

Quotes

• “A decision to go no contact is not a decision that is made overnight. It is not made in direct response to an argument that you had. It’s not even in direct response to a ton of arguments you’ve had. The decision to go no contact with a parent is a last resort. No child, no child ever asks to be in a situation where they need to make a decision to have a parent in their life or not.” (03:28 | Dr. Z) 
• “Going no contact with a narcissistic parent is your last effort to walk away with some sense of peace for yourself and your own family.” (14:11 | Dr. Z) 
• “If you have gotten to the point where you have set no contact with a parent who is a narcissist, you have done nothing wrong. I’m sure you have thought about this for a very long time. And the fact that you did it, does not make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a bad child. It makes you incredibly brave to put your mental wellness first in such a horrific situation.” (34:04 | Dr. Z) 

Links

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“It’s going to be hard. It’s going to be the worst feeling you’ve ever had, but you’ve got to work through it.” The hard truth that, according to Nicki Marie, every single mom navigating divorce needs to hear. In this episode, she joins Dr. Jaime Zuckerman to open up about the emotional rollercoaster of separation, co-parenting and motherhood, offering a glimpse into the challenges and triumphs of her journey.

An “accidental influencer” and mom advocate, Nicki shares how rediscovering her authentic self became her anchor through the chaos of motherhood and divorce. Together, she and Dr. Z discuss how societal expectations and toxic relationships can reshape self-esteem and identity, which leave women questioning their worth. What does it take to rebuild your worth after years of feeling unseen? How do you trust again when past relationships have left you feeling guarded?

This episode is an honest and hopeful conversation for anyone grappling with the complexities of single motherhood and the scars left by difficult relationships. Nicki’s reflections remind us that healing can be messy yet worthwhile, and celebrating small victories along the way is a step toward reclaiming your strength.

Quotes

• “I see people going through horrific divorces and family court, and one thing I always tell them is to document those breakdown moments—often, they happen in the car. Documenting these moments creates anchor points to look back on and see how far they’ve come. We’re often the worst reporters of our own behavior. We forget how low we were, how hard we worked to get through something, and how successful we’ve been at overcoming challenges. Capturing those moments can ground you and remind you of your progress. It doesn’t mean you won’t have bad days—let’s be honest, bad days happen. But acknowledging those past struggles and recognizing that you’re further along than you were—that’s all you need to know.” (07:15 | Dr. Z)
• “This is a message I need everyone to hear: It’s going to be hard. It’s going to be the worst feeling you’ve ever had, but you’ve got to work through it.” (08:43 | Nicki Marie)
• “You know what’s funny? If you Google me, guess what the first thing that comes up that people are searching the most… ‘Nicki Marie, reason for divorce.’ ‘Nicki Marie, ex-husband.’ People are obsessed with wanting to know the deal. And I will never share it because I have children and I want their world to be as offline as possible. That’s for me to work through. That’s for us to work through. So, I want to say that as a reminder to women who think they have to tell their full life story online: It’s there forever. Do the work with Dr. Z behind the scenes.” (56:04 | Nicki Marie)

Links

Connect with Nicki Marie: @nickimarieinc

@unpluggedwithnicki

https://linktr.ee/Nickimariebrands?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaaa356ZtcSAo7EmbJGEzJ1n3rO0rvekX8Eahzc73-utvKp900gboHSs8o_aem_KzH1HX-YVvcQr2sedajLQg

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In this episode, Dr. Z delves into the complex dynamics between narcissistic mothers and their adult daughters. She discusses how the behavior patterns of narcissistic mothers challenge societal norms of the mother/daughter relationship and have a profound impact on their daughters’ self-esteem and mental health.

Dr. Z also addresses the grieving process daughters of narcissistic mothers must go through once they come to accept the relationship will never be what they hoped for. She emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and offers practical strategies for managing these dynamics. 

Tune in to this episode of Next Up: Narcissism for Dr. Z’s compassionate and empowering insights, aimed at helping listeners break free from narcissistic abuse and move towards a healthier, happier life.

Quotes

• “With narcissistic moms, they love their children in conditions. They love their children so long as the child is, at any age, doing what is expected of the narrative that has been given to them since birth. So, since birth, you get a narrative. You are to play that role your whole life. That role is meant to put you in a certain pattern that the narcissistic mom is able to control and manipulate. Because remember, with narcissists, the main goal of narcissistic behavior is to gain power and control, to take away your autonomy, to take away your sense of self.” (09:11 | Dr. Z) 
• “Do narcissistic moms love their kids? They love them when they are performing as the narcissist wants them to perform. They love them so long as the child is doing what is expected of them.” (11:07 | Dr. Z) 
• “Start to gain objectivity to your narcissistic mom’s behavior and the reality of who you are, because the reality of who you are is not connected to her. She’s just made you think that for so long. Your ability to make decisions independent of her exists. It always existed… Once you realize that you can exist separately from a narcissistic mom, your entire world opens up. You realize that you are capable of doing whatever you want to do, as long as you understand that you will never get the support that you want from your mom, unless it benefits her.” (37:40 | Dr. Z) 

Links

Get my FREE breathing exercise here! https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Are you dating a narcissist, or is your partner just a jerk? Find out in this episode of “Next Up: Narcissism,” where Dr. Z, a licensed clinical psychologist and narcissistic abuse expert, outlines the key, underlying differences between behaviors that may be toxic in nature, versus those that are consistent with narcissistic abuse. Listeners will gain a better understanding of these differences along with practical strategies for how to navigate these behaviors.

Dr. Z stresses the importance of understanding the underlying "why" of people's behaviors. While many unhealthy behaviors may look similar on the surface, she explains that the specific purpose of narcissistic abusive behavior is to obtain power and control over the other person. 

To help listeners identify narcissistic abusive behaviors, Dr. Z introduces the "boundary test." She suggests canceling plans, especially with a new dating partner, then observe their reaction. Healthy reactions would include appropriate disappointment or expressing understanding. However, when dating someone with NPD, you may see extreme anger, even more boundary violations such as showing up at your house unannounced, or other manipulative tactics such as ghosting.

Dr. Z points out that the majority of people, when confronted with their mistakes (yes, even a "jerk"), will take accountability or at the very least be empathetic about any harm they may have caused others. A narcissist, however, will not only refuse to take accountability, but they will lack empathy for those they have hurt. 

If you're looking to better understand toxic relationship dynamics, or seeking tools to navigate them more effectively, tune in to this episode. Dr. Z offers essential insights and practical strategies that will empower you to make informed decisions about your relationships.

Quotes

• “When I say function of behavior, what I mean is the underlying ‘why.’ Why did that person do X behavior? Why, at this very moment, did the person do what they did? Because we know with narcissistic personality disorder—the behaviors that they engage in—the underlying reason behind them is for power and control.” (01:47 | Dr. Z)
• “You don’t need to have a reason. And that reason does not need to be narcissistic abuse to leave the relationship.” (04:19 | Dr. Z)
• “The function of a narcissist’s behavior is always going to have to do with power, control, manipulation, right? We talk about all those three things—getting supply, getting attention, having the focus be back on them, having them be relevant, or having them feel big and powerful. That’s the function of their behavior.” (16:40 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“What is happening behind closed doors of the family court system would horrify everyone in the country and around the world if they truly knew,” says Tina Swithin, renowned family court advocate, author of the “Divorcing a Narcissist” book series, blogger and owner of One Mom’s Battle, and founder of the High Conflict Divorce Coach Certification Program. In this episode, Dr. Z and Tina discuss the often deeply flawed family court system, particularly in cases involving high-conflict divorce.

Tina sheds light on the dark underbelly of the “alienation industry,” detailing the disturbing practices of reunification camps and the resulting psychological trauma these camps have on children as well as the healthy parent.  

Highlighting her ongoing legislative success in banning these camps, Tina emphasizes the continued need for careful documentation, local support networks, and increased advocacy to push for system reform. Dr. Z and Tina provide essential advice and resources for those involved in high-conflict divorces, stressing the importance of awareness, support, and meticulous documentation as they navigate the family court system.

Quotes

• “The first step towards change is awareness on these topics. We need to be talking about it because there are so many survivors of domestic violence who believe the messaging from society—just be brave, leave. And then they assume that once they step foot into the family court system, that they are going to be protected and that their children are going to be protected. That’s absolutely not what’s happening.” (04:05 | Tina Swithin)
• “I think that the family court system is working the way it was designed. A lot of people say it’s broken. It’s like, no, it’s doing what it was designed to do. It has become an industrial complex. It has become an incredibly lucrative industry where it attracts a lot of very unscrupulous professionals, ‘professionals’ who are not there for the right reasons. They’re there for profit. And it should be what is in the child’s best interest.” (05:17 | Tina Swithin)
• “The industry that has been created around the thought that two parents are absolutely critical to a child, they’ve created their own industry: reunification industry, alienation industry. By the time I retire, I hope it’s exposed. It will go down in history as the biggest multilevel marketing scheme of our lifetime.” (29:39 | Tina Swithin) 

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Connect with Tina Swithin:

One Moms Battle: https://www.onemomsbattle.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onemomsbattle/

X: https://x.com/onemomsbattle

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onemomsbattle

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onemomsbattle?lang=en

Book: https://amzn.to/3VcdjPC

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“In a narcissistically abusive relationship, sex can become a tool of weaponry, a tool of control,” declares Dr. Kate Balestrieri, a licensed psychologist and certified sex therapist. In this episode, she joins Dr. Z to unpack the intricate relationship between sex and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

Dr. Balestrieri, founder of Modern Intimacy and host of the “Get Naked with Dr. Kate” podcast, delves into the subtle tactics of sexual coercion and emotional manipulation commonly used by someone with NPD. She discusses how, within these relationships, sex is used as a tool to seek validation, power, and control. The conversation also touches on the function and impact of infidelity and pornography in these relationship dynamics.

Listen to this episode of Next Up: Narcissism to get a deep and insightful look into the role of sex within Narcissistic Personality Disorder, offering valuable strategies for those who are affected by this type of abusive behavior. 

Quotes

• “In a narcissistically abusive relationship, sex can become a tool of weaponry, a tool of control. It becomes bait, a way to keep someone suctioned into the relationship. It provides a false sense of security and can be a bomb used to perpetuate the cycle of abuse.” (03:13 | Dr. Kate Balestrieri) 
• “When we understand narcissism, we recognize that it’s really about the person, organized in this fashion, trying to prop up a sense of self that they can feel okay about. At its core, narcissism is rooted in shame and self-loathing. Narcissists cope with these feelings by projecting various manufactured images. Sex becomes another tool they use to prop up that image for themselves and the world. It becomes a way for them to gain supply, attention, validation, control, and power.” (05:34 | Dr. Kate Balestrieri) 
• “We have to remember that narcissism is a condition of objectification. With a fragmented sense of self, they objectify everyone in their life; everyone serves a purpose to bolster them up. For someone partnered with a narcissist, their partner serves a particular function. One of the key elements of objectification is instrumentality, where the person becomes an object or instrument for serving the narcissist.” (24:36 | Dr. Kate Balestrieri) 

Links

Connect with Dr. Kate Balestrieri:

TikTok @drkatebalestrieri https://www.tiktok.com/@drkatebalestrieri?lang=en

IG: https://www.instagram.com/drkatebalestrieri

Website: www.modernintimacy.com

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Toxic family systems are run like a cult,” says Dr. Sherrie Campbell, a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in family estrangement and toxic relationships. She joins Dr. Z this week to talk about the lasting damage narcissistic family members can inflict—not just on the immediate family but also on extended relatives and friends. Sharing insights from her own experience with toxic parenting, Dr. Campbell explains the roles of the golden child and the scapegoat, pointing out the often overlooked pressure on the golden child as well as the emotional burden carried by the scapegoat.

Dr. Campbell also addresses the stigma surrounding family estrangement and how guilt and shame often follow the decision to cut ties with toxic relatives. This episode touches on the emotional uncertainty that comes with estrangement and shows the importance of self-acceptance and rewriting one’s personal story to move from victimhood into empowerment. 

Tune into this episode as Dr. Campbell and Dr. Z share practical tips for healing and navigating these complex relationships, leaving listeners with the hope that a more authentic, fulfilling life is possible beyond the toxic family dynamics.

Quotes

• “When you have two grotesquely self-centered parents, they’re already competing with each other before the children are born for power. And then when the children are born, they then compete for power in that aspect as well… The most toxic person in the family dynamic is the least confronted. So you would think that it would be the most confronted, but they’re the least confronted because everybody else is in fear. So without fear, there cannot be any control. Toxic family systems are run like a cult.” (03:11 | Dr. Sherrie Campbell) 
• “Sick families need a scapegoat to externalize their issues onto, so they never have to confront or look at themselves.” (15:08 | Dr. Sherrie Campbell) 
• “I always say to people, when you’re talking about patterns of family dynamics, there’s a ‘dance.’ And when one person in that dance goes left instead of right, it throws the entire system off balance. When you have the healthy person in the family, whether it’s an aunt, uncle, sister, brother, it doesn’t matter—when they go left instead of right, the whole system gets thrown off balance.” (15:17 | Dr. Z) 

Links

Connect with Dr. Sherrie Campbell:

www.facebook.com/sherriecamobellphd

https://www.instagram.com/dr.sherrie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.sherrie

Dr. Sherrie's Tedx Talk: https://youtu.be/deyHwDkG7oc?si=CkgnoNZ05dBS6y4G

Sherapy Sessions podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/sherapy-sessions-cutting-toxic-family-ties/id1591691842

Adult Survivors of Emotionally Abusive Parents: How to Heal, Cultivate Emotional Resilience, and Build the Life and Love You Deserve: https://amzn.to/3XEnfCD

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Once you see these patterns, you are going to see them everywhere,” says Dr. Z as she outlines the distinct playbook of narcissistic abuse. As you become increasingly aware of the narcissist’s patterns, “you’re going to know exactly what's going to happen, when they're going to do it, and how they’re going to do it," she elaborates. In this episode, Dr. Z explores how individuals with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) often sabotage significant and meaningful events in the lives of those around them, revealing how this behavior, though common, is often overlooked and affects relationships with partners, friends, coworkers, and family members.

Those with NPD will frequently (and deliberately) ruin special occasions such as birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, graduations, job promotions, even funerals. Their primary motive? To gain access to your emotions, diminish the importance of the occasion, and to obtain power and control over you and the situation itself. This can look like picking fights for no reason, deliberately giving inappropriate or unwanted gifts, feigning illness, lateness, excessive drinking, giving you the silent treatment, or even ignoring the occasion altogether. Recognizing these patterns is crucial for those entangled within a narcissistic abusive relationship as it allows you to better predict their behavior and form effective responses to protect your peace.

Dr. Z offers actionable tips on setting boundaries and preparing for potential sabotage, including the use of fact-based responses only, maintaining neutral emotional responses, developing a set of alternative backup plans, and documenting any interactions in writing. She discusses in detail how gaining an in-depth understanding of this manipulation tactic can greatly minimize the impact it has on these important occasions. With awareness, preparation, and strategic planning, you can protect your joy, maintain control over important life events, and gain a tremendous sense of empowerment. 

Quotes

• “Narcissists routinely will do what they can to sabotage an event and a holiday—anything that’s important to you.” (02:36 | Dr. Z) 
• “If you know that on these important occasions, that something like this is going to happen, you can prepare. What does that look like? You can have a mantra that you’re going to say if they make a comment to you. If they start an argument with you—we talk about gray rock, right?—you’re going to become extremely neutral, fact-based, and boring. You are not going to engage them in their delusions, in their manipulation, in their gaslighting. You are not going to play the game. (28:47 | Dr. Z) 
• “If you want to win the game, you go totally neutral. You do not allow them access to your emotions, to your thoughts, to the situation, to the behavior. You do not give them that. And you do that by having extremely neutral responses.” (29:31 | Dr. Z) 

Links

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Expect that you're going to get pushback from them, because you will,” says Terri Cole, about what can happen when establishing boundaries with others. Terri is a licensed psychotherapist and author of “Boundary Boss.” Together with host Dr. Z, they delve into the critical aspects of setting boundaries and managing interactions with a narcissistic parent.

Terri defines boundaries as personal rules of engagement that communicate to others what behaviors you are willing, and not willing, to tolerate.  Alongside Dr. Z, they explore the common challenges of setting boundaries, including the difficulty of maintaining them in the face of pushback. Terri also introduces a unique framework for categorizing what she refers to as "boundary offenders." They are: Boundary First-Timer, Repeat Offender, and Boundary Destroyer.

Terri and Dr. Z also discuss the challenges of setting boundaries with narcissistic parents and the unique approaches required to effectively manage these extremely complex relationships. Red flags and common behavior patterns of narcissistic parenting are explored, including the use of emotional blackmail and competitiveness with their children. 

Tune in to this episode of “Next Up: Narcissism”  to gain valuable insights into how to identify narcissistic parenting dynamics, strategies to establish and maintain effective boundaries, and how to protect your own mental health while fostering authentic and healthy relationships.

Quotes

• “Your boundaries are comprised of your preferences, your desires, your limits, and your deal-breakers—your non-negotiables. So really think about what that is, preferences, desires, limits, and deal-breakers. It's not enough to know them, which a lot of people don't even know. You have to know them and then have the ability to clearly and concisely communicate them when you so choose.” (02:54 | Terri Cole)
• “This is what makes having healthy boundaries so complicated for people because even if you do spend enough time on yourself to know what your preferences are, knowing how to set a limit with someone else can be very challenging, because we're all raised and praised to be self-abandoning codependents.” (03:22 | Terri Cole)
• “The reason why boundaries are broken up into the categories that they are, according to me, is because they don't all carry the same weight.” (09:00 | Terri Cole)

Links

Connect with Terri Cole:

terricole.com/workshop

terricole.com/fatherwound 

https://boundarybossbook.com/

https://www.instagram.com/terricole/

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“A lot of people don’t realize that there’s narcissistic abuse occurring in friendships because we don’t really think of it in that context,” says Dr. Z. When we talk about narcissistic abuse, it’s usually in the context of intimate or family relationships. This week, Dr. Z highlights an often-overlooked reality: it can happen in friendships too, and it can be just as insidious and psychologically damaging.

Dr. Z reveals that just like within intimate relationships, narcissistic friendships also begin with love bombing efforts. These may include excessive attention and adoration, gifts, and constant communication very early in the friendship. This helps to craft the illusion of the perfect friendship. Initially, you may feel as though this person is your twin soul. You can’t fathom how you ever existed without them up till now. However, over time, the love bombing ceases and they begin to engage in manipulative and passive aggressive behaviors. For example, they may undermine your success, not offer support when it’s most needed, or try to one-up you. A narcissistic friend will dominate conversations, often unloading their issues onto you without offering any real support in return. 

Another red flag Dr. Z points out is the use of silent treatments. This can leave you feeling confused and anxious, wondering for days what you did wrong. Narcissistic friends will consume your time, drain your energy, and possibly even your finances. It is their goal to isolate you from your existing friends and family so that you become increasingly dependent on the friendship. Dr. Z also touches on how narcissistic friends demand you meet their emotional, physical, or financial needs. And when you don’t comply? Expect guilt trips, gaslighting, silent treatments, and character bashing. 

This episode isn’t just about recognizing these abusive patterns; it’s also about finding a way out. Dr. Z shares practical advice on setting small, manageable boundaries and slowly reconnecting with your other relationships and interests. 

Escaping a narcissistic friendship is tough, but as Dr. Z reassures, it’s absolutely possible. The key is to focus on your well-being and remember that the narcissistic abuse you endured is never your fault. .

Quotes

• “One of the things that narcissistic friends hate is seeing you succeed. They do not like your success because, for them, it doesn’t involve the narcissist, and they don’t have control over it. Success is a step towards autonomy, which they view as a threat. They see it as competition—something we’ll discuss separately—and a barrier to getting supply.” (06:59 | Dr. Z)
• “Narcissists in friendships will align themselves with people that benefit them in some way.” (22:32 | Dr. Z) 
• “Do not waste any breath or energy trying to defend your character when a narcissist is trying to smear it. That’s exactly what they want. The best thing to do is ignore it, not defend it, and let it ride out. The more you engage, the more control you’re giving up and handing over to them.” (34:16 | Dr. Z) 
• “Healthy friendships do not involve constantly trying to one-up each other. They don’t involve making the other person feel horrible about themselves, being rude, or not talking to them for no reason. True, healthy friendships are a two-way street. Sometimes one person needs more, and the other needs less, and it goes back and forth. You respect each other, respect each other’s feelings, and you’re there for each other. If you can’t be there for someone, they understand that it’s not malicious.” (39:28 | Dr. Z) 

Links:

Get my FREE breathing exercise here  http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Books:

Find Your Calm http://www,drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Find Good Habit http://www,drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm