More or Less (Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin)

The gang discusses the new "risk on" vibe in Silicon Valley.

OpenAI Sets a Record and Will Apple Make Its Next Move?

00:00 - Introduction and The @VCBrags Twitter Account
04:48 - The Sam and Dave Contest
07:15 - OpenAI's Record-Breaking Funding Round
13:04 - OpenAI's Product Strategy Shift
18:05 - The Future of A.I. and Consumer Experiences
19:28 - Apple's Potential in the A.I. Space
26:23 - The Impact of A.I. on Software Development
33:55 - Dave's Three A.I. Buckets: Fast, Slow, and Edge Models
35:54 - Insane Evaluations and VC Funds
39:24 - How Japan's Declining Birthrate is a Good Thing
43:10 - Pop Culture Corner
46:47 - Closing Thoughts and Future Tech Trends in Japan

This week’s episode takes you front and center into the continuous unfolding of the OpenAI saga, including the different versions of the Sam Altman persona. The quad shares extensive debate on what could come next and why, with key insight into AI as a practical business technology vs. the fears around AGI, and the challenges of a for-profit business funding a non-profit mission. Listen in to learn lessons from other platforms, (especially those without strong economic rationality), observations about the key people involved, thoughts on how this will shape Silicon Valley’s future, and more.

DISCUSSED: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/from-king-to-exile-to-king-again-the-inside-story-of-sam-altmans-whiplash-week https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/11/sam-altman-open-ai-chatgpt-chaos/676050/ SHOW NOTES: [00:00:00] Open. [00:02:10] Recap: Our goal is to talk about the bigger picture here. [00:04:10] The rise of the Popcorn emoji. [00:04:52] This is our Kardashians. [00:05:58] Why are people fixated on this? [00:09:30] Religious fundamentalism at play. "Feel the AGI!" [00:12:49] The only way to protect against AGI is to create AGI first? [00:14:20] How did this governance breakdown happen? [00:17:51] Anytime you need a flowchart to explain your org structure you are starting from a bad position. [00:19:00] 11 billion dollars is completely irrelevant to Microsoft, a 3 trillion dollar company. [00:20:00] The key point in the miscalculation: the customers. [00:22:30] Adam D'Angelo is one of the highest integrity people. [00:23:41] Organizing your life and work around things you can trust. Do you want to trust American business and governance or fundamentalism? [00:24:13] The economics of Facebook Platform as a historical example. [00:26:55] Should he restructure the organization entirely? [00:28:04] Shouldn't we have some concerns with putting this 100% commercial realm? Or do we think regulation will fill the gap? [00:28:42] What about decentralization and open source? [00:31:02] What mechanism is there to implement a restructuring? [00:34:48] Sam Altman's side projects. [00:41:20] This technology is so powerful and we are all customers of it. [00:42:07] Do you guys have a single portfolio company that would die if OpenAI went away? [00:42:40] Silicon Valley desperately needs a story right now. [00:43:30] What does this mean for the future of Silicon Valley? [00:44:04] How dangerous is AI, really? [00:45:20] Sam Altman the cultist versus Sam Altman the pragmatist? [00:46:40] What is this technology, really? [00:47:51] You are the OpenAI board, do you vote for or against Sam Altman as CEO? [00:54:25] You are Sam Altman, what do you do? [01:00:07] Trust and board strurcture. [01:04:00] Close. TRY THE GPT: http://gpt.moreorlesspod.com FOLLOW THE POD: http://threads.net/moreorless FOLLOW THE GANG: http://threads.net/davemorin http://threads.net/brit http://threads.net/jlessin http://threads.net/lessin

The Morins and Lessins debate the fizzling hype around AI and the Hollywood strike. Plus, Threads’ next move.

Discussed: 

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/deal-activity-on-the-rise-as-bankers-say-merger-conversations-are-picking-up

https://www.ted.com/talks/tom_graham_the_incredible_creativity_of_deepfakes_and_the_worrying_future_of_ai

https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.09009

https://dudeperfect.com/tour

Show Notes:

0:00 Threads had a strong launch but questions remain around engaging content and audience building.

5:00 There is debate about the impact of AI on content, with concerns about AI-generated content and tools. The actors' and writers' strike highlights issues around voice, likeness, and copyright.

15:00 There are differing views on the capabilities and impact of large language models and AI technologies. Some argue the hype has outpaced reality while others see potential if issues around data and synthetic content can be solved.

30:00 The actors' and writers' strike is seen as justified by some to push for changes to copyright law to account for AI, voice, and likeness rights. Others want a quick resolution to minimize disruption.

35:00 Live experiences are seen as becoming more important compared to AI and digital content, as illustrated by the popularity of the Dude Perfect live show.

Brought To You By:

⁠The Information⁠

⁠Slow Ventures⁠

⁠Offline Ventures⁠

Google’s enjoyed a monopoly-sized head start for a while. But it now looks like the DOJ’s ready to throw a wrench in its works. Is a breakup of the search giant on the cards? In EP 068 of the pod, Brit, Dave, and Jess talk all things: - antitrust and Google, - screen time and parental control, and - why leveraging AI for consumer apps might still be a pipe dream. We’re also on ↓

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MoreorLessPodv X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Connect with us here: 1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

Chapters: 00:00 Trailer 01:11 Introduction 04:25 Google: A Breakup On The Cards? 08:24 Big Tech & Antitrust 27:43 Screen Time & Devices 31:14 Ditch Your Phone 32:14 Dr. Becky & Parenting 33:06 Health & Longevity 34:00 Spin-Offs: Good For Big Tech? 35:36 AI Predictions 43:52 The Future of Software 50:51 Consumer AI & Business Models 59:12 AI at Wimbledon and Final Thoughts

Elon Musk trolled Jessica on X—at least, that’s how it seems.

Was it just a marketing stunt for Grok 3, with The Information as the sacrificial lamb?

Plus, Humane’s AI pin flopped, but HP swooped in for a $160M “rescue.”

What does this mean for the AI hardware race? Sam has some strong opinions (spoiler: he’s not a fan of AI printers).

And the internet’s latest rabbit hole: Could Jack Dorsey actually be Satoshi?

Social media is unraveling, AI is becoming hyper-personalized (maybe too much so), and the next wave of consumer tech is either flopping or skyrocketing at warp speed.

All that—plus the latest chaos in AI, Big Tech, and beyond—on Episode 87 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

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Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Introduction

(00:01:20) Bay Area ski week

(00:02:38) Yoga

(00:06:43) Grok 3 vs The Information

(00:12:26) Best deep research model?

(00:19:30) iOS bug and social media isolation

(00:23:42) iPhone 16e and status symbols

(00:27:49) Digital drugs

(00:33:21) Do brands even matter anymore?

(00:43:00) Humane fire sale and AI Printers?

(00:47:07) Founders who can land a plane

(00:53:31) Lost Meta "international spy technology"

(00:55:40) More Or Less correspondents

(00:56:50) Jack created Bitcoin?

(01:00:32) Outro

The gang discusses the Harvard debacle (and Sam's run for the Board of Overseers), why double-bottom lines are challenging, tech regulation, and more.

DISCUSSED:

The 19th News

SHOW NOTES:

[00:00] Opening.

[01:10] We have a non-zero hit rate on making things things.

[01:50] How did we start the pod?

[03:01] The parable of launching a rocket at the moon.

[04:23] This week's headlines.

[06:28] Venture Capital Strategy: Why go super vertical?

[10:56] Guess the Product: Is it a Cold Plunge a Shiftwave Chair or ???

[14:03] Wild new moisture farming technology.

[18:03] The big debate: Harvard, nonprofit governance, and the future of society.

[21:31] Sam is now running as a write in candidate for the Harvard Board of Overseers.

[24:40] Has business become too big? Or has business just become too weird?

[25:55] The tale of two Twitters: one missionary, one capitalist.

[29:01] How do you solve for leadership in a woke world moving forward?

[29:45] Is there a strong argument that nonprofits should not exist?

[33:15] The problem with "make number go up".

[35:34] Isn't it the case that all organization exist at some intersection of "number go up" and values?

[37:00] The dirty secret of nonprofits: they have to raise money.

[37:36] What happens when institutions become too rich that they no longer listen to external feedback?

[38:51] The bigger question about the gap between the board and the people at these institutions.

[39:46] Is this a transient property of internet culture?

[42:32] Quick return to talking about TikTok governance.

[45:55] Jess plugs one of her favorite nonprofit, 19th News, which exists to cover all of the range of topics and polices and ideas that relate to women.

[49:28] Brit is heading to the California Governor's Mansion to the California Gender Equity Summit.

[52:50] Closing.

TRY THE GPT:

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Meta is ditching fact-checkers, Nvidia hitting $3T, and everyone is building robots for some reason. Episode # 81 of More or Less kicks off 2025 by asking:

• How much of Zuck's community notes pivot is political theater?

• Can NVIDIA actually pull off this "mega omniverse" industrial AI play?

• Will companies thrive as the great tech exodus accelerates?

Plus: Sam explains why centralized moderation was always destined to fail (backed by that wild 30% spike in misinfo post-fact-checking), Dave remains unimpressed by CES's 170,000-person gadget circus, and Brit introduces us to Generation Beta -- the first true AI natives.

Bonus round: Is 2025 the year Texas tech finally takes the crown?

We’re also on ↓

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Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00) Trailer

(01:50) Introduction

(03:02) CES, NVIDIA, Generation Beta

(10:00) Breaking down Zuck’s announcement

(25:22) What could go wrong?

(38:34) Los Angeles

(40:46) Robots

(44:01) Pop Culture Corner

(47:50) Outro

As the news heats up, the couples discuss why recent IPOs tell us little about whether the window is, in fact, open and ponder the future of leadership in Silicon Valley.

Show Notes:

[00:00:10] Startup location rules.

[00:05:30] Silicon Valley regulation debate.

[00:08:18] Younger and hungrier talent.

[00:11:30] Generational transfer in big tech.

[00:14:10] Florida signaling and tax optimization.

[00:18:23] Tech events worth attending.

[00:23:02] Female CEO of Instacart.

[00:25:13] Staying private for too long.

[00:29:27] Small tech equity risks.

[00:32:23] Hiring challenges for startups.

[00:36:49] The role of capital market timing.

[00:38:02] Cost of compliance for going public.

[00:42:05] Power dynamics in public markets.

[00:45:09] Price equals quality.

In this episode, the crew dives into why no self-respecting Silicon Valley developer is ditching AI tools anytime soon. Sam and Jess go back and forth on Snap’s subscription model and whether it can stand up to Meta’s dominance. Plus, Bezos seems wary of a potential Trump comeback. We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod Connect with us here: 1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

00:00:00 Trailer

00:01:02 Introduction

00:01:22 Phone problems as features

00:07:00 Tech earnings season overview

00:09:45 Meta's quarterly performance and VR discussion

00:15:30 Google and Microsoft's AI-driven growth

00:19:55 User growth for tech companies

00:23:56 How users are using Snapchat

00:30:46 Get laid, get paid, get entertained

00:36:40 Earnings predictions

00:40:09 Creator economy's influence on election campaigns

00:51:09 Bezos ends Washington Post presidential endorsements

00:57:53 Celebrity collaborations and entertainment updates

01:03:47 Outro

DISCUSSED: For this bonus episode of More or Less, last month at The Information's WTF Conference, Jessica interviewed the sisters behind the hot clothing brand Favorite Daughter, the World's First Podcast and Oversubscribed Ventures. They discussed entrepreneurship, building for today's customers and why it is sometimes a good idea to say everything you are thinking. SHOW NOTES: [00:03:06] Embrace being underestimated, say yes. [00:06:05] Embrace opportunities outside your comfort zone. [00:12:38] Authenticity drives successful consumer brands. [00:16:43] Podcasting is a low-lift, enjoyable endeavor. [00:19:29] Life doesn't always go as planned. [00:25:32] Associate with smarter people. [00:33:27] Importance of direct communication. [00:35:35] Expansion into new categories planned. TRY THE GPT: http://gpt.moreorlesspod.com FOLLOW THE POD: http://threads.net/moreorless FOLLOW THE GANG: http://threads.net/davemorin http://threads.net/brit http://threads.net/jlessin http://threads.net/lessin

From Netflix to the NFL, the incumbents are having quite a moment. Plus, crypto's new energy and the gang's fiercely different views on.... peptides.

Show Notes

00:00 Introduction and Silicon Valley banter

01:03 Discussion about football and personal influences

03:15 Challenges in the news and startup landscape

06:50 Struggles of fintech companies like Brex

08:11 Success of Netflix and the streaming wars

09:11 Difficulties of platformization in fintech

15:22 Investing in fintech and the challenges of valuation

20:31 Future of Stripe and the fintech industry

24:39 Network effect and competition in the payments industry

27:22 Need for a unique business model to compete with incumbents

28:20 Impact of crypto on transaction costs

28:41 Promise of Crypto

30:21 Rise of Stablecoins

32:41 Future of Payments

37:31 Success of Netflix

46:27 Re-Bundling of Streaming Services

49:16 Power of Big Players

53:21 Future of Media

53:54 Impact of Apple TV

54:26 Oscar Nominations and Movie Lengths

55:29 The Influence of TikTok

57:32 Future of Robotics in Beauty and Wellness

58:51 Wellness Gadgets and Peptides

01:00:41 Introducing Paul and His Gaming Startup

01:02:19 Closing Remarks

What happens when the biggest VCs, LPs, and founders cram into one basketball stadium?

Deals get made, gossip flies, and Dave and Brit Morin find themselves in a very questionable hotel situation.

Reporting live from LA, they break down everything happening at Upfront Summit—or at least, everything they overheard by the coffee station.

On deck this episode:

• is Bezos finally embracing his role as a media mogul?

• Meta’s $200B spend vs. Grok’s lightning-fast scale

• what really went down in Silicon Valley?

All that, plus Dave’s latest case for why everyone should quit social media, in this Episode #88 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: ⁠https://x.com/lessin⁠

2) Dave Morin: ⁠https://x.com/davemorin⁠

3) Jessica Lessin: ⁠https://x.com/Jessicalessin⁠

4) Brit Morin: ⁠https://x.com/brit⁠

00:00 Intro

01:13 Live from the Upfront Summit

03:04 Intuit and taxes

06:37 Bezo's media shift

12:26 Blantant bias and framing

18:53 Meme coins are fascinating

25:39 Make Instagram great again

32:44 Big Tech and Trump

34:19 Google search traffic is down

36:35 AI segment: Grok

45:08 The AI markets meme narrative

55:40 Time Women of the Year Gala

59:04 Outro

On this week's episode of More or Less, Jessica, Dave, Sam, and Brit tackle a chaotic week hashing out Waymo’s Peninsula push, Sam’s million-dollar Mars wager with Brit, and YC’s agentic AI craze—fresh from ski season vibes and office debates.

Also on the deck this episode:

• Waymo’s expansion has Jessica ditching Lyft (almost)

• Sam vs. Brit: a million bucks on Mars colonization odds

• TikTok’s sale—Oracle’s in, but ByteDance might still call the shots

• Anthropic’s CEO says AI will write all code soon—engineers aren’t having it.

Plus, recession drums beat louder, Jessica’s tennis mag Racket swings big, and Sam’s still trolling with billboards.

We’re also on ↓

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Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer + Introduction

01:46 Sam has another billboard!

04:23 Waymo news

09:12 New space age, flying motorcycles, tech CEOs

14:21 Starlink, rockets, the space war use case

19:56 More or Less bet: humans on Mars by 2040?

24:34 Can this entity afford TikTok?

27:53 Recession? Who cares?

35:32 Startups are recession-proof

42:30 Anthropic and vibe coding

44:55 Billionaire free caltrain

45:29 What's on our Instagram explore pages?

47:42 Tennis magazine

This week on More or Less, Jessica hosts with Joanna Coles, Chief Content Officer at The Daily Beast, while Sam, Dave, and Brit are off for “spring break”!

They explore:

• Elon’s DC stint

• Trump’s cabinet leaks: Leaks fuel Rubio-Elon tension

• China’s AI edge: Cheap tech shakes Valley’s lead

Plus, Joanna ponders plastic surgery risks in space—will implants hold up?

Featuring:

Joanna Coles: https://x.com/JoannaColes

The Daily Beast: https://www.thedailybeast.com

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1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

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3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

01:13 The only one standing felt abandoned

03:05 Guest intro

04:36 What's it like inside the newsroom frontlines

07:03 Betrayal, greed, power, ambition, love...

12:17 What character is Elon Musk playing

20:25 The Donald, the Valley, and the Trade War

28:29 What the insider insiders are talking about

31:20 Space, plastic surgeons, celebrities

37:06 Another pop culture moment: Meghan Sussex

40:52 Royalty and the tabloid

46:05 Gloria Steinem, women's rights, reproductive health

48:23 Moments that break out

51:46 Outro

On this week’s episode of More or Less, Meta kills DEI and fact-checking (right after their $27B moderation exit), Zuck's talking "masculine energy" on Rogan, and TikTok's facing a ban while DJI mysteriously drops US flight restrictions. It's not even February.

We also share opinions on: • why tech's gender gap persists (18% of CS grads are women)

• whether Elon's X could inherit TikTok's distribution

• what NYC's congestion tax reveals about tech's bubble

Just another week in Silicon Valley's great realignment.

We’re also on ↓

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2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:22 Tech's gender gap

07:52 Balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies

18:36 Implications of TikTok Ban

26:52 If TikTok goes dark

30:51 Balkanization

38:21 Inauguration

41:01 Wellness festival

44:12 Congestion tax and consumption patterns

48:08 Girl math

49:41 Los Angeles

53:10 Outro

The prolific AI investor joins the gang to discuss OpenAI, Apple and the AI deals he is—and isn't—doing and why. Plus, what's in Vinod's ChatGPT history.

Plus, inside Sequoia's Klarna drama and the latest AI demos

Show Notes

00:00 Introductions

03:00 The Potential of Reddit Advertising

09:00 Licensing Data and Monetization Challenges

13:00 The Moderation Challenge of Reddit

18:00 Private Group Moderation and Content Control

22:00 Failed Coup at Klarna

26:00 Tensions and Divisions in Late-Stage Pre-IPO Companies

30:00 The OpenAI Board Situation

31:00 Apple's New Sports App

33:12 Moon Landing and Advertising

33:45 Tech Companies and NBA Streaming Rights

34:27 Betting Odds in Digital Formats

36:15 Frequent Sports Betting

37:03 Tennis and Sports Rights

37:41 Pop Culture Corner: Movies and Oscars

40:00 Beyonce's Country Song and Marketing

43:02 OpenAI's Sora and Marketing Strategies

44:41 The Importance of Marketing in Startups

50:47 Building Trust through Individuals

53:24 Community Building and Brand Ownership

Plus, a preview of Sam's new opus. And a More or Less fall meetup!

Show Notes: 00:00 - Introduction and Vacation Plans 01:14 - Sam's Unpublished Document on Higher Education 04:44 - Joe Rogan's Peter Thiel Interview Pt. 1 08:35 - Health and Wellness Trends 12:33 - Joe Rogan's Peter Thiel Interview Pt. 2 16:39 - The Reset Phase 25:06 - Capital-Efficient Investments 31:14 - Understanding S-Curves and A.I. 51:09 - Tinkerers in the Startup Ecosystem 59:12 - Apple's Prestige Dad TV

The gang kicks off a new series about what entrepreneurs should build with a sector close to our heart. Plus, Brit details the Life360 U.S. IPO and Jess flaunts some new merch.

The gang unpacks all the latest news about OpenAI and Sam Altman. Plus, does Google have a shot in AR/VR? And our dream Vision Pro apps.

Takeaways

• Sports media has become a successful form of linear storytelling in the internet age, creating a national monoculture.
• The globalization of sports presents challenges in creating a unified global sports event.
• The Vision Pro and Quest devices offer different experiences, with the Vision Pro being more suitable for work and the Quest providing a more immersive gaming experience.
• There is a debate on the potential role of Google in the face computer market, with some believing that Google's strategy may not be successful.
• The Vision Pro and Quest strategies have different focuses, with the Vision Pro being more spatial computing oriented.
• The potential of spatial computing and its impact on social software is a topic of interest and exploration.
• Communication and social interaction in the Vision Pro present challenges that need to be addressed.
• There is excitement and positive impressions of the Vision Pro, with potential for professional and enterprise applications.
• Agents and their role in AI are gaining attention, with potential for enhancing various tasks and workflows.
• OpenAI's plan to raise $7 trillion for AI chips is seen as absurd and lacking credibility.
• Tech leaders making outrageous statements can harm the perception of the tech industry and overshadow the serious work being done.
• The episode highlights the need for rational and disciplined business practices in the tech industry.

Show Notes

00:00:46 - Introduction and Welcome

00:00:57 - The Full Quad Gathered

00:02:50 - AI News Discussion

00:03:02 - Vision Pro Analysis

00:03:45 - Missed Pop Culture Corner

00:04:58 - Superbowl and Taylor Swift Discussion

00:07:40 - Brock Purdy's Super Bowl Performance

00:08:26 - Sports Documentary Entertainment Genre

00:10:52 - Sports Media as the Final Frontier

00:12:13 - National vs. International Sports

00:13:06 - The Monoculture of Sports

00:14:04 - NBA and Global Sports Tournaments

00:15:00 - The Flailing Olympics

00:15:41 - The Decline of Olympic Storytelling

00:17:14 - AI News and Vision Pro

00:17:43 - Vision Pro vs. Oculus

00:18:06 - Vision Pro as a Work Machine

00:18:17 - Oculus Content and Games

00:18:49 - Camera and Social Potential

00:19:20 - Spatial Computing

00:20:24 - Google's XR Software Shift

00:21:19 - Android vs. iOS in XR Space

00:25:01 - Content-Driven Business Models for XR

00:25:43 - Vision Pro's Unique Position in XR

00:26:09 - The Potential of the Spatial Internet

00:29:05 - Social Software Challenges

00:35:20 - Developer and Creator Interest in Vision Pro

00:38:03 - Zillow Gone Wild and Vision Pro Ideas

00:38:44 - Music Video Apps 

00:39:45 - Gaming and Social Apps

00:41:37 - Professional Apps

00:42:07 - Aviation Apps

00:45:59 - AI News

00:46:23 - OpenAI's Agent

00:46:46 - Brett Taylor's New Company Launch

00:47:17 - OpenAI Search Product

00:49:20 - Google's AI Rebranding to Gemini

00:51:34 - OpenAI's $7 Trillion Semiconductor Funding Strategy

00:53:43 - The Era of Absurdist Capitalism?

00:54:03 - The OpenAI Governance Crisis

00:55:11 - A Rational Comparison to the US Budget

01:00:15 - The Tree Removal Story

01:02:09 - Episode Wrap-Up and Thanks

Plus, Burning Man and Zuck's political moves.

With Musk’s bio now updated to read, “The people voted for major government reform,” it’s clear he’s not just dabbling in policy.

In this episode, the Morins and Lessins break down what it means for democracy when a “super VC” like Musk mingles tech interests with government influence.

Also on the docket:

- will Bitcoin surge to $100K?

- monetization for LLMs, and

- the new wave of Silicon Valley internships in government

We’re also on ↓

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Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

Mark Zuckerberg & T-Pain's New Song 'Get Low':

https://open.spotify.com/track/3Wn1ZONJX2yfbzWo2aPuQN?si=5368065e3e994f54

00:00:00 Trailer

00:01:10 Introduction and Brit’s New Look

00:03:17 IV Drip, Lingo, suPAR

00:08:49 PSA: Cookies and Feedbacks

00:10:09 Another big week in AI

00:12:30 Department of Government Efficiency

00:21:53 The cryptos and the VCs

00:29:39 AI in B2B2C and Verticalized Markets

00:37:50 AI Investment Strategies and Market Trends

00:52:32 Pop Culture Corner: Zuck and T-Pain

01:00:15 Outro

Apple’s Vision Pro has had its fair share of challenges.

Initially aiming for 3 million units, the forecast adjusted down to 900,000, then 800,000, and ultimately?

Just 450,000 sold.

For a $3,500 device, that's a tough spot to be in.

Going from developer kit to flagship in a hurry? Classic Apple.

In this episode, the Morins and Lessins talk about:

- Apple vs Meta on AR

- AI & mental health, and

- journalistic integrity in tech reporting

We’re also on ↓

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Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

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Connect with us here:

1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

Back in the Bay Area, the Morins and the Lessins debate the status of startup work culture and how to fix it. Plus, Nvidia’s blowout earnings and the best More or Less product idea yet.

Articles and data discussed:

Salesforce Leads Financing of AI Startup at More Than $4 Billion Valuation

Can San Francisco Save Itself From the Doom Loop?

Show Notes:

[0:00:00] Remote work policies and productivity [0:13:23] Data on decreased mobile phone usage in cities since COVID [0:20:11] The current state of San Francisco and the Bay Area [0:31:36] Hybrid work challenges and the move back to the office [0:35:00] Productivity tools and scheduling meetings effectively [0:39:44] Improving communication technologies for remote and hybrid work [0:46:43] NVIDIA earnings and valuations in tech [0:50:00] New potential features for the podcast including a "Third Wheel" segment

Plus has Taylor maxed out her TAM?

Plus, peak developer confernece and bundle, unbundle, bundle!

Plus, the Morins teach the Lessins about streetwear and BRAT culture. And the full quad debates ideas for both presidential candidates' social media teams.

The gang focuses on the exit opportunities for AI startups and whether there will be a growing wave of AI buyouts. Plus, debating the surgeon general's warning about social networks and kids.

Elon Musk just threw OpenAI into chaos with a $97 billion bid for its nonprofit arm. But does he actually want it—or is it just for the memes?

Meanwhile, Slow Ventures has secured $60M to bet on the future of creators, and Brit and Jessica predict the rise of serial influencers.

Oh, and Google Maps is broken. Seriously.

All that and more in Episode #86 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Trailer

(00:01:07) Dressing well

(00:03:38) Startups, hybrid work

(00:11:47) Efficiency and productivity

(00:18:51) Apple Intelligence

(00:20:44) Google Maps

(00:22:31) Elon's OpenAI bid

(00:33:26) Who buys TikTok?

(00:35:27) Bill Gates

(00:41:31) Investing on people and adventure capital

(00:50:30) 360 deals and musicians

(00:52:34) Investing in niche creators

(00:56:39) Super Bowl LIX and Kendrick Lamar

(01:01:55) Outro

The Morins and the Lessins devise a playbook on the future of sports media. Plus, a More or Less debate on a new study on Wegovy.

Articles and research discussed:

https://www.novonordisk.com/content/nncorp/global/en/news-and-media/news-and-ir-materials/news-details.html?id=166301

Show Notes:

0:00 - Introduction: The hosts discuss ESPN's declining subscriber numbers and revenue challenges. They debate whether equity ownership for athletes could help and what innovations ESPN could make.

2:18 - ESPN's issues: The hosts discuss ESPN's high content costs, difficulty being a distributor in a direct-to-consumer world, and how sports rights are priced to perfection.

9:12 - Barstool Sports: The hosts discuss Barstool Sports' acquisition and subsequent return to its founder due to his controversial behavior. They debate whether "crazy" founders luck into windfalls.

16:00 - Solutions for ESPN: The hosts discuss innovations like new formats, storytelling, and interactive experiences. They debate whether betting is the best form of interactivity.

25:00 - Longevity science: The hosts discuss a new study showing a weight loss drug can reduce heart attack risk by 20%. They debate the risks of healthy people taking such drugs.

34:00 - Wrap up: The hosts summarize the major problems discussed and look forward to recording together in person next time.

Who is in—and out—at this year's annual Allen & Co. conference? Plus, racquet sports, robots, and how the summer is shaping up in tech.

The right—and wrong—lessons about tech's favorite new topic. Plus, a new type of parental warning.

Show Notes: 00:00 - Introduction and Labor Day Tennis
02:00 - Pickleball
03:00 - Founder Mode
05:00 - Organizational Structures
12:00 - Founder Mode from a VC Perspective
15:00 - Galaxy Brain vs. 100 Nodes
18:00 - Uber vs. AirBNB
22:00 - Optimizers vs. Builders
25:00 - The Parent Analogy
26:00 - Different Types of Founders
30:00 - VC-backed Company Incentives
33:00 - Long-Term Trajectory of Founders
37:00 - Running a Business for Wall Street vs. Founder Mode
39:00 - The Challenges of AirBNB
43:00 - A Nasty Idea
46:00 - Data Centers: A "Dick Measuring Contest"
49:00 - The Surgeon General's Warning on Parenting
52:30 - A Pool House Guest

Are we just playing into Elon's game with Twitter? The Lessins and The Morins debate and take different sides on whether seed investing can survive. Plus, what's Ruth Porat really up to at Google?

Discussed:

Google’s Darkest Days: After Three Deaths, a Workforce Reckons with a Changed Company
The Power Law: Venture Capital and the Making of the New Future

Seed Investing Can't Turn Back On

Show Notes:

00:00 - The hosts discuss Elon Musk rebranding Twitter as 'X'. They argue that Elon is doing it mainly to stay in the news cycle and get attention. They joke about how Elon is just like any other internet user, changing DNS records and making mistakes.

06:29 - The hosts discuss Google. They talk about Google's AI strategy, the promotion of Ruth Porat to President, and mental health issues at Google. They debate whether Google has lost its way or is still well positioned.

13:44 - Sam explains his view that 'seed investing is dead'. He argues that the venture capital model has broken down and companies are overvalued and unable to make a profit. Dave and Sam discuss how they prefer investing in 'weird' areas.

20:18 - The hosts debate whether venture capital will fundamentally change or just become a less good business. They agree that while seed investing will still exist, the previous model is over.

Plus, Inside The Information's Creator Economy Summit and a new threat for OpenAI.

The gang discusses the release of Google Gemini...the crypto resurgence, crystals and the Cybertruck.

DISCUSSED:

1. Introducing Gemini: our largest and most capable AI model
2. Millions of new materials discovered with deep learning
3. The Top 100 Articles from The Information’s First 10 Years
4. The Organized Mind: Thinking Straight in the Age of Information Overload
5. How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen
6. Top Gear: Tesla Cybertruck DRIVEN!

SHOW NOTES:

[0:00:00] Opening. [0:02:15] Very Very Happy Birthday to Brit Morin! Questions about automated birthday messages. [0:03:20] Idea: Automated Birthday Greeting AI Thing [0:04:24] Idea: AI Responder [0:07:13] Headlines: Next volley in the AI wars with Google launching the Gemini AI Model, more layoffs at Spotify, media news with Disney finishing acquiring the rest of Hulu from Comcast, more bad news in venture capital land with a Boston based firm closing it's doors, and some book recommendations. [0:09:35] The Information Wrapped: With The Information turning 10 this week, what are Jess' big lessons? Biggest stories? [0:11:35] Google AI: What are the implications of powerful multi-modal models like Gemini? [0:13:59] Impressive More or Less Show Notes brought to you by Google Gemini. [0:14:57] It was always ridiculous to count Google out. Of course they were going to build really interesting stuff. [0:16:50] An even more interesting Google AI Announcement: DeepMind's breakthrough in discovering millions of new crystals and other materials. [0:21:10] Don't forget Meta AI: WhatsApp Bots, Meta Imagine, and Meta buying the most Nvidia H100s in the world. [0:23:05] The Big Product Strategy Question: You're running Google or Meta, what is your AI rollout strategy? [0:32:28] VC Temperature Check: Firms shutting down, IPOs were suppose to come but did not really come, yet crypto is ripping? [0:35:45] Next Phase of Crypto: We are now in the phase of crypto where we are starting to connect these technologies to the real world. [0:37:14] Crypto, Fandom, and CRM 3.0: Giving creators the power to engage more deeply with their fandoms. [0:41:33] The pitches in crypto have finally become good business pitches. [0:41:58] So where are we on crypto tokens now? [0:43:55] Happy Birthday to Brit again! [0:44:47] Book Recommendation: The Organized Mind - Thinking Straight in the Age of Information Overload [0:47:34] A More or Less Book Proposal: Is our date night an ops meeting or a date night? [0:48:45] Book Recommendation: How to Know a Person - The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen [0:49:50] Cybertruck: Thoughts on the Tesla Cybertruck design, and engineering. [0:52:25] Closing.

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Following news at Snap, the gang debates what the media gets wrong about founders and how founders need to react in this new market.

Discussed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHsHKzYOV2E&t=779s

Show Notes

(00:00) Opening

(06:05) Evan Spiegel's Persistence and Motivation

(11:25) Founders and Product as Powerful Motivating Force

(15:39) Challenges of Starting Over from Scratch

(19:36) Balancing Product and Business Strategy

(29:54) The End of the Product-Focused CEO? 

(37:02) Crypto Market Update and Outlook

Fresh from an investor conference in Los Angeles, the gang discusses the week's headlines and the behind-the-scenes scuttle from one of tech's elite gatherings. 

Articles Discussed

How Apple’s Eight-Year Quest to Build a Self-Driving Car Hit Roadblocks

Consumer Startups Are a Better Bet Than Enterprise Startups

Show Notes

00:00:11 - Intro
00:01:33 - More or Less Business Models
00:03:15 - Upfront Summit Insights
00:04:21 - Event Networking Dynamics
00:04:56 - South by Southwest Comparisons
00:05:54 - Hollywood's Shift to AI for Scenes
00:07:41 - Upfront Summit vs. More or Less Podcast
00:08:02 - Football Docuseries Recommendations
00:09:29 - Vision Pro's Use Cases
00:10:15 - Apple's Electric Vehicle Project Shutdown
00:11:58 - Apple's Growth and Future Direction
00:13:32 - Big Companies and Market Mapping
00:15:16 - Apple's Approach to New Markets
00:17:29 - Apple's Retreat from the Car Business
00:18:08 - Apple's Focus on Personal Technology
00:19:23 - Self-Driving Cars and AI Challenges
00:20:03 - Apple's AI and Chip Future
00:21:29 - Google's PR Crisis with Gemini Chatbot
00:22:12 - The Liability of LLMs and AI Models
00:23:21 - Google's Response to Gemini's Issues
00:24:45 - Google's RoboCity and AI Testing
00:25:22 - Google's Next Moves After Gemini Backlash
00:26:50 - Apple's Next Trillion-Dollar Market
00:27:13 - Apple's Potential AI and Software Focus
00:28:08 - Clarifying Apple's Mission with Personal Tech
00:29:02 - Apple's Strategy and Spatial Computing
00:30:07 - Tech Industry's Business Cuts
00:31:01 - Meta's Oculus and Business Decisions
00:33:47 - Pixel Fold's Popularity
00:34:57 - Pop Culture Corner and Taylor Swift's Influence on Camera Sales
00:37:25 - Suits Spinoff in Los Angeles
00:38:44 - Kate Middleton's Hospital Stay?
00:40:07 - Petty Crime Podcast Idea
00:41:58 - Consumer vs. Enterprise Tech Returns Debate
00:43:10 - AI's Impact on Consumer Tech Revolution
00:44:39 - Wrap Up

Sam and Dave had been toying with the idea of making $$ from meme mania, but after last week’s pod, they may have taken it a little too seriously.

They launched Jelly-My-Jelly ($JELLYJELLY), a meme coin that shot up to $250M—thanks, in part, to Venmo co-founder Iqram Magdon-Ismail.

What happened next? Tune in to Episode #85 to find out.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Trailer

(00:01:01) Ski race and poker

(00:03:00) Dave and Sam's newly-launched project

(00:13:19) Fartcoin is serious

(00:19:11) Everything will be tokenized

(00:33:04) PvP system

(00:36:47) Regulation side, Coinbase, jellyjelly

(00:49:16) DOGE against the US Government?

(01:06:56) Pop culture corner

(01:09:52) Outro

The gang unleashes some concerns following new revelations about how companies have been training their AI models. Plus, Netflix's Three Body Problem, The Information's Private Capital Conference and more.

…but something else will bloom instead. Plus, this is why Europe can't have nice things. And the Cable Cowboy kills cable.

Discussed:

The Hottest Coach in Sports: Coach Prime
How Deel Became Payout Provider for Prop Trading Firms, Including Site Frozen by CFTC

John Malone’s Charter Squeezes Disney at Vulnerable Moment

Cable Cowboy: John Malone and the Rise of the Modern Cable

The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success

How Taylor Swift Ditched Dealing With Hollywood Studios to Release the ‘Eras Tour’ Film With AMC

Show Notes:

[00:01:59] CU Buffs winning football game.

[00:06:30] Prop trading as Ponzi scheme.

[00:08:30] A hidden Forex trading industry.

[00:10:38] Robo spam being cracked down.

[00:14:08] Subscription business models.

[00:18:31] Europe's impact on app monetization.

[00:22:18] The digital market act.

[00:24:12] Implications for big tech gatekeepers.

[00:29:31] The future of niche apps.

[00:30:01] Subscription services reaching scale.

[00:33:11] How do you make money?

[00:36:28] Rethinking success for consumer businesses.

[00:39:52] Cable subscriptions and user experience.

[00:43:23] The fascination with fax machines.

[00:45:22] Old and new combined.

[00:47:57] Taylor Swift's movie theater success.

[00:50:46] More in-person collective experience.

The gang shares predictions around AI for the year ahead. Are we at digital war and don't even know it? Thoughts on defining an "American Tech Stack" and digital citizenship to defend against foreign speech and bots - and how to think about academia in an era where universities and research are no longer disconnected from politics and business.

Discussed

Greeking Out from National Geographic Kids

Photoleap by Lightricks AI Photo Editing App

Executive Order on the Safe, Secure, and Trustworthy Development and Use of Artificial Intelligence

⁠FACT SHEET: President Biden Issues Executive Order on Safe, Secure, and Trustworthy Artificial Intelligence⁠

New: Leica M11-P

Show Notes

[00:00:00] Opening

[00:01:37] Halloween and the Greeking Out Podcast

[00:03:17] Brit hosted a Howl-O-Ween Dog Costume Contest.

[00:03:36] Investing in Dog DNA Startups

[00:05:55] Product Idea: AI Dog

[00:06:25] AI Ninja Tricks

[00:07:50] The Big Debate: The Biden Executive Order on "Safe, Secure, and Trustworthy Artificial Intelligence"⁠⁠

[00:10:36] We need National Tech Stacks.

[00:15:28] Every single Federal Agency was directed to appoint a Head of AI.

[00:18:35] Lack of transparency at AI.gov?

[00:19:31] The difference between academic research and application has collapsed and it is dangerous.

[00:20:50] OpenAI took research from the Google world and commercialized it.

[00:21:20] National AI research should be like the Manhattan Project.

[00:22:39] The Executive Order invokes the Defense Production Act.

[00:24:03] We have an AI War already playing out on American Turf and it is called TikTok.

[00:24:22] We are at war in the technological world and we have no defenses in terms of how this is playing out on our home front.

[00:25:20] We are going to look back in 20 years and realize "Oh my God, we were actually at war, and we were being assaulted on the home front but we don't even fully recognize the attack."

[00:25:30] What is going to happen in 2024?

[00:26:10] Silicon Valley technologist are good at problems where a "solution" is the goal, but are uniquely bad at Washington style problems where "balance" is the goal.

[00:27:29] We need to take the American Tech Stack very very seriously.

[00:28:35] TikTok's Larry Ellison Proposal for continuing to exist in the US.

[00:29:20] Why aren't conservatives demanding action on this?

[00:29:53] If we are in a war, where are we in it?

[00:30:16] American Identity and Digital Citizenship

[00:32:00] What is the American Tech Stack really?

[00:37:14] A hypothetical question: How would you change a government you don't like with AI?

[00:39:32] Does digital identity really have to be tied to a single country?

[00:41:48] Our generation has the most skewed view of globalization in history.

[00:45:50] Where did this conversation start? It started with AI.

[00:46:50] AI Predictions for the next year.

[00:56:04] Closing

Plus Apple 'Crushes' Its New iPad Ad, and Sam goes shopping.

How much capital is ok to burn through in a pursuit of a moonshot? Plus, are people too negative about tech? And techies guide to summer.

The Morins and Lessins debate what the Threads launch means for this era of social media. And, body hacking with Brit. 

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/openai-plans-chatgpt-personal-assistant-for-work-setting-up-microsoft-rivalry?rc=hwneun

https://www.theinformation.com/forum/posts/524?rc=hwneun

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/01/science/consciousness-theories.html

Show Notes:

00:00 Twitter vs. Threads - Meta's new Twitter competitor called Threads, built on Instagram. Debate if it can "kill" Twitter.

06:08 The Future of Social Graphs - Debate if social graphs still relevant given rise of algorithmic feeds on TikTok. Threads may succeed if it can transplant Instagram's graph.

13:33 Content on Threads - Brit discusses the type of content she may post on Threads, noting it could attract a mainstream Instagram audience.

14:24 Audience - The hosts debate who Brit's audience on Threads may be, with Brit noting lifestyle-focused women in their 30s and 40s who are not currently on Twitter.

17:01 Algorithmic vs. Graph-Based - They discuss how Threads will likely use algorithms to boost content but the social graph provides a foundation.

31:01 Twitter's Future - The hosts debate whether Twitter is dying but agree it's hard to see it re-energizing in a positive direction.

39:04 Chat GPT Engagement Down - Dave shares that usage of Chat GPT and other AI chatbots is declining as initial excitement fades.

44:12 Full Body Scans - The hosts discuss new startups building full body scanners for early disease detection, though some question if the technology is meaningful yet.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠

⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠

⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠⁠

Meet Adrian Aoun—an OG listener and one of Alphabet’s best-kept secrets. He recently wound down Forward, his company that set out to reinvent the doctor’s office with AI. He joins Brit, Dave, and Jess in this episode to explore the exit, Adrian’s hardware + software play with CarePods, and what it means to create a generational company for healthcare. Also on the agenda: • is primary care venture-scalable? • are Elon & Trump BFFs?? • Optimus for the military???

We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here: 1) Adrian Aoun: https://x.com/adrianaoun 2) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit 3) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 4) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

00:00:00 Trailer

00:01:17 Introduction

00:02:22 Navigating New York City

00:07:13 Some Silicon Valley history

00:11:05 More Or Less: Trump and Musk

00:15:36 Forward's Journey and Challenges

00:24:00 Healthcare Innovations and Market Shifts

00:30:07 Future of Healthcare and Business Models

00:43:39 Unwinding a company

00:47:31 Healthcare Technology Adoption

00:59:15 The Emotional and Logistical Aspects

01:01:55 Outro

Plus, Sam's Instagram splurge and new science on how women should work out.

The Morins and Lessins discuss the urgent questions Hamas’ terrorism against Israel raises for tech companies. Plus, how leaders should—and should not—respond to the attacks.

Show Notes

[0:00] Intro

[0:36] Opening Discussion

[2:03] It is a very important and troubling time in the world. Sharing some of our thoughts as a group.

[2:10] Impossible to not talk about the Israel and Hamas situation.

[2:15] We are not a political podcast nor are we political experts. We are tech people.

[2:25] This podcast is going to be about the tech side of it and the important tech stories about it. 

[2:30] We are floored and upset. The situation with Hamas is beyond comprehension. They are a terrorist organization. What they’ve done, the atrocities, are beyond pale.

[2:49] We wish the Israeli people the best in doing the extremely painful and hard work ahead. Which clearly has to be done. 

[3:03] On the tech front, 3 things on the agenda to talk about:

1. Funding and LPs in this era: As a company or a fund how do you think about who’s funding you and who you’re funding in light of the geopolitical situation?

2. Social Networks and News: Section 230, the US election in 14 months, AI is now a thing. 

3. Tech Leaders and the interesting thing about who can say what on the internet.

[4:46] Debate about tech leaders' statements on the situation. Note of the lack of strong condemnation of Hamas among tech leaders.

[13:15] Suggestion that tech leaders may be hesitant to speak out strongly due to security concerns.

[15:52] Debate on social networks, news, misinformation, and AI. Prediction that Section 230 is dead.

[19:47] Losing the "town square" into encrypted group chats and why social media will never be the same.

[26:25] Idea that an alternative social network for “actual relationships” should exist.

[27:23] Proposal that we go back to where we were before: “don’t trust the network, trust the individual.”

[27:36] Idea to build clubs of trust and community among Celebrity Influencers to protect the commons.

[28:40] Is there an opportunity for quality journalism?

[28:54] Skepticism that news organizations can regain trust due to business model issues. 

[30:33] The Rock is the answer.

[30:46] Discussion on founders, VCs, and LPs in this era. Who are you ok making money for? 

[34:53] Agreement that transparency enables the individual founder or venture capitalist to make their own decisions about who they’re making money for. 

[36:31] Note that pushing VCs for transparency has worked for issues like diversity. California signed a law this week.

[38:32] Wrap Up

Plus, thank you Susan Wojcicki and the truth about remote work.

The couples take you up close and personal with this week’s Apple event and discuss the future of the company, hardware and the garbage product they can’t live without. Plus, Brit schools Sam on pop culture, part 10.

Show Notes:

[00:00:00] New composting trash can?

[00:05:23] Apple event changes.

[00:08:56] Recycling Cobalt and climate impact.

[00:10:46] Apple's first Carbon Neutral Product.

[00:15:27] Camera technology advancements.

[00:19:44] Apple's trajectory after the launch.

[00:22:11] Cambrian moment in computing.

[00:26:25] The value of Apple's closed ecosystem.

[00:29:41] The capital structure of hardware.

[00:31:19] Hardware companies are entreprenuership on expert mode.

[00:35:30] The Mill magical bottomless composting trash can.

[00:37:48] Spatial computing.

[00:41:08] The Insta360 camera.

[00:43:38] World creation through AR.

[00:48:05] Why can't we have a Hardware API?

Are IPOs relevant? RIP AGI? The gang looks back on our debates and predictions and how we'd refine our views based on what we know now.

Plus, why you should short Nvidia (but don't) plus Silicon Valley swarms the Hamptons.

The Morins and the Lessins debate the question of how much of a "misfit" you have to be to win in tech and whether or not the M&A market will coming roaring back. Plus, "More or Less" lightning round on the Musk v. Zuckerberg cage match.

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/musk-v-zuckerberg-and-silicon-valleys-dangerous-road
https://www.wsj.com/articles/silicon-valley-microdosing-ketamine-lsd-magic-mushrooms-d381e214

https://michaelafreemanmd.com/Research.html

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/a-long-strange-trip-for-the-uber-for-nurses?rc=hwneun

Show Notes:

00:01 Databricks buying Mosaic for $1B - The group discusses the deal, with Britt arguing it signals a return of M&A activity. Others are more cautious, saying one deal does not make a trend. They debate if deals are coming back.

07:12 Drug use and mental health in Silicon Valley - There are differing views on neurodivergence in founders and the role of drugs. Dave argues most founders suffer from mental health issues and need tools to manage it. Others debate the line between creativity and responsibility.

25:18 "Crazy founder" narrative - They debate whether founders need to be "crazy" or "misfits" to succeed. Jessica argues the narrative excludes many potential founders and is problematic. Sam says most founders are "crazy" because they don't fit into normal jobs.

34:06 Elon vs Zuckerberg "fight" - While finding the potential fight silly, they see it as a symptom of lack of clear direction in tech culture currently. Brit argues women founders would never do something so ridiculous.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠

⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠

⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠

How will OpenAI's latest video technology affect the creator ecosystem? Could this new tech pave the way for a new type of entertainment?

Also in this episode ↓

- Does Google have a lead in the AI race?

- Should digital trade play a larger role in policy discussions?

- The End of the Eras Tour and Sam's Pink Pilates Princess Strut Pop Season

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

00:00 Trailer

01:24 Introduction

02:04 The Eras Tour

06:56 AI, TikTok, and Arrests

07:31 AI Video Debate

10:28 Creator Economy and AI Tools

16:10 Trust and Attention in Creator Businesses

19:24 Digital Drugs and AI Content

22:13 Spotify Wrapped and Music Trends

27:54 AI Agents

35:04 The Death of the Open Web?

39:42 Policy, Big Tech, and Digital Trade

48:29 Reflecting on Leadership in Media and Policy

52:18 Amazon Autos and Miata Chronicles

55:01 Outro

As regulators move in, the gang discusses the future of Apple and Google's app stores and their role over the next decade. Plus, the new layoff normal and Silicon Valley gets classy.

SHOW NOTES

00:00 Opening and Introductions

01:11 Working with Partners

03:14 The Information Gala and Dress Code

03:45 NFL Playoffs and Sports Betting

07:02 Layoffs at YouTube and Privacy Changes

11:29 Apple Allowing Third-Party Payment Mechanisms

14:56 Frustrations with the App Store

16:21 Importance and Future of the App Store

21:20 Rabbit R1 and AI Powered Gadgets

27:31 ChatGPT App Store as a Potential Competitor to the Apple App Store?

28:23 Difference in Distribution Advantage between the ChatGPT App Store and Facebook Platform

29:05 Importance of Distribution Opportunities for Developers on New Platforms

30:03 Collapse of the Economic Model of Facebook Platform and the Potential Challenges for the ChatGPT App Store

32:55 Potential Advantage of Google Integrating a Bard App Store

33:30 Uncertainty of Monetization and Revenue Opportunities for Developers on AI App Stores

36:05 Long-Term Competition between Apple, Google, Meta, and Adobe in the AI and Platform Space

42:43 Debate on the App Store's Anti-Competitive Practices

46:04 Potential of AI to Make Google Services Stickier

47:41 Use of AI and Language Learning Apps for Children

48:47 Announcement of a New Season of More or Less and Future Plans

Adobe Chief Strategy Officer Scott Belsky joins the Morins and the Lessins as the Fifth Wheel for an episode about all things AI. Plus, inside the FTC’s case for breaking up Amazon.

*probably dead, but maybe not Show Notes [00:00:14] Developer experience and ease of use. [00:04:24] Scott Belsky and AI. [00:09:55] Empowering SMBs with AI. [00:12:26] Proprietary data and AI. [00:16:09] Building clouds and competition. [00:18:30] AI regulation and fast growth. [00:21:19] The concept of agents. [00:24:09] Agents working on your behalf. [00:27:27] AI agents and their potential. [00:31:36] The limitations of today's LLMs. [00:34:41] The big antitrust kahuna, Amazon. [00:36:51] Amazon's impact on independent sellers. [00:41:30] Amazon's advantage in multiplexing. [00:44:27] The fifth wheel.

The gang discusses OpenAI's developer conference and whether the new ‘GPT Store’ is a serious platform developers and entrepreneurs should care about, or just another slick PR announcement. Also thoughts on the IPO market (why bankers keep saying it isn’t open, but will soon) and way too much discussion of The Morning (After) Show.

In the first pod of 2024, the gang previews the year in VC to come and OpenAI vs. NYT. Plus, layoffs, boomerang VC and Brit's oh-so-Brit resolution.

The artist vs. tech bros—classic tension or chaos ahead?

In EP 75, Brit, Dave, and Jess are joined by Matt Vascellaro as they dive into:

• Sora's leak and the fiery backlash from Hollywood

• The uneasy marriage of AI and art, and why the "right" UI still feels like chasing rainbows

• And, of course, the rise (and roast) of the Bay Area tech bro

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As the Morin household goes full Vision Pro, the gang reveals what everyone is missing about the device. Plus, the earthquake through digital media and (maybe) the end of AI everything.

Takeaways

• The Apple Vision Pro offers a truly immersive and transformative experience, changing the way users think about computing.
• The Vision Pro represents a new computing paradigm and has the potential to expand into various devices and accessories.
• Developers will play a crucial role in exploring and innovating new use cases for the Vision Pro.
• The joint streaming service for sports by major networks reflects the significance of sports in the media industry and the growing demand for streaming sports content. Streaming services are disrupting the traditional cable industry, but the challenge lies in the fragmentation of content and the lack of a comprehensive aggregator.
• The demand for a comprehensive sports package remains high, as sports fans struggle to find a streaming service that offers all the games they want to watch.
• Esports has not yet reached its full potential in the United States, as it lacks the community engagement and water cooler conversations that traditional sports have.
• The venture capital industry is constantly evolving, but the key to success remains investing in the few companies that truly matter.
• AI is no longer a standalone category in venture capital, but rather a tool that is integrated into various industries and sectors.

Show Notes 00:00 Introduction and Special Guest 03:01 Discussion on Apple Vision Pro 11:00 Impressions and Potential of Apple Vision Pro 17:26 Competition and Future of Apple Vision Pro 25:08 Developer Perspective on Apple Vision Pro 34:48 Discussion on Joint Streaming Service for Sports 35:44 Streaming and the Cable Industry 36:13 Challenges of Streaming Bundles 37:40 Need for a Sports Package 39:05 Competition and Market Share in Streaming 41:37 Future of TV News 43:24 Challenges of Esports 50:28 The Changing Landscape of Venture Capital 52:06 Evolution of AI in Venture Capital

Entrepreneurs and investors the Morins and the Lessins discuss what the antitrust armageddon means for venture capitalists and the challenges of creator-led businesses. Plus, Pharrell's debut (tech?) fashion collection and what we learned this week. 

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/briefings/ftc-sues-amazon-for-manipulative-prime-signup-process

https://www.theinformation.com/briefings/google-microsoft-ftc-complaint-antitrust-cloud-licensing
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-23/doj-preparing-suit-to-block-adobe-s-20-billion-deal-for-figma 

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/pharrell-williams-stages-louis-vuitton-debut-pont-neuf-2023-06-20/

Show Notes:

00:02 - Antitrust actions against big tech companies like Amazon, Google and Meta are making acquisitions difficult for startups. This is limiting venture capital returns though these lawsuits are expected. There are few exit opportunities.

07:11 - Funding creators through a holding company that owns their various ventures better aligns their incentives with investors'. This approach works better than funding individual creator projects like Mr Beast burgers which can fail.

13:13 - Taylor Swift's fans making and trading friendship bracelets with her song lyrics at concerts has become a collectible marketplace. This shows how trends can emerge organically in the creator economy.

26:00 - Investing in verticals that creators fully own may yield better returns than individual projects. This distributes risk across multiple revenue streams.

37:23 - Pharrell Williams' Minecraft-inspired fashion show for LVMH highlights how gaming and online culture is influencing trends in fashion and design.

46:08 - Technology that can play music outdoors at high volume yet remain inaudible to neighbors is exciting though still nascent. When it works, it renews enthusiasm for innovation.

47:20 - While the Bay Area faces challenges, the energy and innovation in Silicon Valley that has fueled tech growth remains alive.

Brought To You By:

The Information

Slow Ventures

Offline Ventures

Plus, China, the supply chain and Sam climbs a mountain.
MrBeast Strategy Doc: https://cybernews.com/news/mrbeast-leaked-pdf-spills-secrets-how-to-be-successful-on-youtube/ 0:00 - Introduction and Debriefing Sam's Mountain Climbing Trip 5:50 - Instagram's New Teen Controls 10:20 - The Role of Tech Companies in Child Safety 12:34 - YouTube's New Hype Feature 13:30 - MrBeast's Leaked Strategy Doc 15:00 - Parental Controls 22:10 - Are YouTube Hypes just Tips? 27:45 - Amazon and The Shift Back to In-Person Work 32:54 - Temu and Regulation Loopholes 40:30 - Sam's Phrase: "Lick the Cookie" 41:50 - Crypto Innovations and Investments

In this episode, the Morins & Lessins dive into the highs and lows of 2024 to uncover who came out on top.

Google made a strong showing, but are they well-positioned for the long haul? Waymo keeps moving the needle with self-driving cars and big moves in AI, making it a strong contender for years to come.

Apple? They’ve been a bit slow to innovate this year, but don’t count them out just yet. Meta really hit their stride in 2024, proving the naysayers wrong. AI? Check. Hardware? Check. Will they keep the momentum going?

Let’s get into it.

In this episode, the Morins & Lessins dive into the highs and lows of 2024 to uncover who came out on top.

Google made a strong showing, but are they well-positioned for the long haul? Waymo keeps moving the needle with self-driving cars and big moves in AI, making it a strong contender for years to come.

Apple? They’ve been a bit slow to innovate this year, but don’t count them out just yet. Meta really hit their stride in 2024, proving the naysayers wrong. AI? Check. Hardware? Check. Will they keep the momentum going?

Let’s get into it.

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(00:00:00) Trailer + Introduction

(00:01:46) God bless capitalism

(00:04:08) A+ love story, 3-hour marathon

(00:07:32) 2024 Tech Outlook

(00:09:50) Why AI was transformative

(00:13:21) A major year for tech?

(00:17:55) A remarkable year for VC

(00:31:51) Waymo

(00:35:35) The company of the year

(00:53:29) 2025 Predictions

(01:03:20) Food, health, pop culture, sports

(01:08:15) Outro

What’s it like being the CEO of Box and a full-time internet meme lord? Well… ask Aaron Levie.

In this episode, he joins Jess, Dave, and Sam to answer:

• what it’s like being a “toxic Bitcoin maxi” as the price soars past $100k

• more or less M&A for MAANG

• how far we are from AGI

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5) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:27 Introduction

05:26 Web3, Crypto Enthusiasm

13:44 Political Dynamics in Tech

22:27 Antitrust and Regulatory Challenges

34:59 The Future of AI in Enterprise Software

40:36 The Personal App Revolution

43:47 AI Accuracy

51:38 Killer Use Cases and Business Models

1:01:59 Future Predictions

1:05:02 Pop Culture Corner

1:07:10 Outro

Markets move fast—sometimes too fast.

This week, Jessica, Dave, Sam, and Brit dissect Trump’s crypto reserve play, Nvidia’s AI stumbles, and how nostalgia is sneaking back into everything. Recorded amidst ski trips, surf plans, and a billboard that’s trolling AI hype, the crew unpacks it all.

Also on deck:

• Core Weave’s $1.7B AI cloud grab signals robotics is the new VC darling

• Reports of Discord going public?

Plus, Jessica’s surf weekend drama, Sam’s “Trump Make Poor” bit, and a hot take on why live sports might be overrated. It’s chaos, it’s volatility, it’s Episode 89 of More or Less.

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00:00 Trailer

01:10 Make startups weird again

02:24 The Brit brand theory

04:01 TikTok, DeepSeek and the nostalgia supercycle

05:48 Do people even watch live sports anymore?

08:36 Running Point and feminist humor

10:12 "New old, old new" companies

16:26 "Spam" Lessin's billboard

20:35 Driverless Waymo on the 101

21:59 Wall Street Journal tech layoffs

28:17 Trump make rich, Trump McPoor

34:52 AI, AGI and the Top Gun Theory

37:40 IPOs, massages, robot sex workers

45:16 Girls' surf trip with margaritas and poker

47:46 Indian Wells!

52:18 Outro

The gang discusses how you build dense networks of real value around small business in the AI future. Also, bonus discussion on content maxis vs. community maxis...and the symmetry of Jessica's face.

Try the More or Less GPT:

https://chat.openai.com/g/g-Lt0xdU9Jp-more-or-less

The gang does a retro on their 2023 calls…from AI to Vision Pro (we couldn’t come up with a Z)…and makes predictions for tech, media, and capital in 2024.

BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS:
The Creative Act, A Way of Being by Rick Rubin
The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli
Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir
Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin

SHOW NOTES:
00:00 Introduction and Holiday Reflections
03:06 The Adobe-Figma Merger
05:35 The Pro-Capitalism Argument
06:52 Antitrust Laws and Government Intervention
09:03 The Valuation and Future of M&A
16:07 Reviewing VC and IPO Predictions
18:32 The Future of Remote Work
30:00 Twitter and the Rise of Threads
40:20 Appreciating Instagram and the Future of Social
41:19 The Slow Future of Threads
42:33 Compliments and Bromance
43:14 Predictions for Audio and Video Experiences
43:39 The Return of Path
44:17 Apple Vision Pro and the Future of MR
46:24 Spatial Video and Memories
47:10 Losing Memory and Talking to Ourselves
48:43 AI Layoffs and Clip Art Music
50:48 Taylor Swift and Creator AI
52:22 More Crypto Predictions
57:12 TikTok's Fate and the Chaotic Presidential Election
59:39 Pickleball Rollups and Crypto Launches
01:01:26 Expecting the Unexpected in 2024
01:08:23 Book Recommendations
01:10:29 Closing Remarks and Farewell

TRY THE GPT:
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FOLLOW THE POD:
http://threads.net/moreorless

FOLLOW THE GANG:
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http://threads.net/jlessin
http://threads.net/lessin

Plus, techies and their quantified sports.

Elon’s robots are real... kind of?

On this episode of More or Less, we take a deep dive into the duality of Tesla.

Are we witnessing the future or yet another Disney ride?

Tune in as Brit, Dave, Sam, and Jess unpack:

• Tesla’s We, Robot event

• Why the retail army craves Planet Elon

• Waymo & the future of robovehicles

• Late-stage capitalism

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Entrepreneurs and investors The Morins and The Lessins discuss the week in tech including Apple's head scratchy VR rollout, VR vs. AI in the interface wars, and crypto's 'nothing burger'.

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/whats-clear-and-blurry-about-apples-vision-pro-headset

https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-coinbase

Show Notes:

00:01 Introduction - The podcast discusses technology news and opinions from the perspectives of people who have been in Silicon Valley for decades.

09:18 Apple's Reality Pro - The hosts discuss Apple's new Reality Pro headset. While some of the technology is impressive, they question whether it will be a mainstream consumer product anytime soon.

19:07 UFO Disclosures - The hosts discuss recent government disclosures about unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs). While some find the materials science data interesting, they remain skeptical about claims of alien spacecraft.

28:20 SEC Lawsuit Against Coinbase - The SEC recently sued Coinbase, arguing many crypto businesses operate illegally. While the lawsuit may provide some clarity, the hosts debate whether the SEC's aggressive approach is the right way to regulate the crypto industry.

34:57 Wrap Up - The hosts share wins of the week and discuss Father's Day gift ideas.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠⁠

Meta Connect, the Hardware Renaissance (or Not?) and Special Guest Dan Feder 

The couples unpack how to "Survive to 2025" and debate whether Threads had the right launch strategy. Plus, Yaccarino needs media training.

Show Notes

[00:01:18] Our first ever More or Less event. 

[00:04:44] Startups shutting down in Q3. 

[00:07:39] Seed investor and founder cramdown risk.

[00:10:38] Not so lifestyle businesses. 

[00:13:37] Avoid debt at all costs.

[00:17:51] Normalizing shut downs.

[00:21:32] Will Twitter shut down? 

[00:24:50] Should Linda stay as CEO? 

[00:27:05] Twitter's debt negotiation strategy. 

[00:31:05] Threads’ graph and growth. 

[00:35:12] Growth hacks and social apps. 

[00:36:36] Discovery and finding new people in social apps. 

[00:40:00] FTX and Michael Lewis' new book. 

[00:43:33] Taylor Swift's media circus.

[00:49:29] See you guys next time.

Stargate—a $500 billion AI venture straight from Trump 2.0's White House—has all the drama of a sci-fi blockbuster.

But instead of aliens (like in the movie from 30 years ago), we’ve got Elon Musk, Satya Nadella, and Sam Altman trading shots.

“SoftBank doesn’t have the money,” Elon posted on X, while Microsoft’s Nadella shot back, “I’m good for my $80 billion.” Meanwhile, Altman’s keeping things spicy with OpenAI already breaking ground.

Also on the docket:

• $TRUMP token,

• the inauguration at Capitol Hill, and

• if SoftBank buys, must you sell?

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Welcome to Part 1 of the More or Less highlights special! We’re taking a look back at an action-packed year in AI, from groundbreaking developments to game-changing predictions about the future. Don’t miss this collection of standout moments and stay tuned for Part 2!

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4) Sam Lessin: ⁠https://x.com/lessin

(00:00:00) Introduction

(00:00:54) SEGMENT 1: OpenAI Developer Day, Altman firing

(00:01:08) OpenAI Developer Day and GPTs

(00:15:22) CEO Sam Altman was fired

(00:35:27) SEGMENT 2: Apple + OpenAI, LLMs Business Realities

(00:35:42) Apple Intelligence

(00:51:51) SEGMENT 3: Agentic Predictions, Adoption, Business Models

(00:52:23) OpenAI's Mega Funding Round

(01:08:39) Agentic future and Building software through AI

(01:24:25) Silicon Valley Hype Waves, Tech Infrastructure and Great Products

(01:40:11) Outro

Plus, power shifts in social and why you should pay attention to the new Taylor Swift album.

The Morins and the Lessins debate how to solve misinformation across even legacy media sites. Plus, prepping for VCs' big annual reports to shareholders.

Discussed

Psilocybin Treatment for Major Depression Effective for Up to a Year for Most Patients, Study Shows

Slow evolution of a NYTimes headline. "Israeli Strike" -> "Strike" -> "Blast"

After Hospital Blast, Headlines Shift With Changing Claims

What To Do About Misinformation in the Upcoming Election Cycle?

Show Notes

[00:00:00] Intro and Check In

[00:01:46] RIP Dr. Roland Griffiths, Johns Hopkins scientist who proved psilocybin is the cure for depression. 

[00:05:39] AGM Season. What are AGMs? 

[00:08:05] The big topic: Misinformation and The New York Times

[00:11:17] How did this happen? Where is the accountability in media?

[00:15:58] The importance of being right not first. 

[00:20:19] How we get our information. 

[00:22:37] Trust in the media.

[00:25:56] Should influencers know each other more deeply as humans? 

[00:29:38] Civilization vs Not-Civilization. 

[00:33:40] Building bridges through conversation. 

[00:35:23] The role of colleges. 

[00:37:41] AR and VR's are anti-social technology.

[00:41:30] Social networks cracking down.

[00:46:26] More questions about the end of the factory model of venture capital. 

[00:48:57] Are we really not investing in AI startups?

[00:52:03] Capital is just gone.

[00:54:51] Backing founders without safety nets.

[00:55:00] Wrap Up

A new idea for how to "ban" TikTok is gaining steam in D.C. while Elon (again) makes wakes. Plus, what the AI and ridesharing wars have in common.

Takeaways

• The ban on TikTok and the regulation of Chinese apps are ongoing topics of discussion.
• Apple could play a significant role in creating controls for parents to limit app usage, including Chinese apps.
• Google has already taken steps to limit Chinese app access.
• The US-China relationship and co-dependence pose challenges in addressing national security concerns.
• More sophisticated and targeted regulatory approaches are needed to effectively address these issues. The ban on TikTok raises concerns about national security risks and the influence of Chinese-owned apps on American youth.
• ByteDance's revenue growth highlights the company's success and the potential impact of a TikTok ban on its business.
• Elon Musk's lawsuit against OpenAI raises questions about the organization's mission and the transition from nonprofit to for-profit.
• The influence of Elon Musk on the tech news cycle and the perception of his companies is a topic of discussion.
• The future of electric vehicles faces challenges such as range anxiety and competition from other countries. Charging electric vehicles can be a challenge for some individuals, leading to discussions about alternative solutions.
• Roving superchargers are a potential solution to address range anxiety and charging issues for EVs.
• The AI venture capital race is compared to the ride-hailing wars, with concerns about market concentration and smaller investors being boxed out.

• PCC: Who was the highest paid actor in 2023?

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Ban on TikTok

03:15 Regulating Chinese Apps

08:54 Apple's Role in Controlling Apps

16:21 Proposed Bill and Apple's Dilemma

18:18 Sophistication of Regulatory Efforts

19:07 The TikTok Ban

21:13 ByteDance's Revenue Growth

22:25 National Security Risks

26:19 Elon Musk's Lawsuit Against OpenAI

28:01 The Influence of Elon Musk

37:33 The Future of EVs

39:44 Charging Electric Vehicles

40:12 Alternative Solutions

40:46 The Future of EVs

41:20 Roving Superchargers

42:07 AI Venture Capital Race

43:13 Pop Culture: Highest-Paid Actors

45:40 Market Concentration in AI

52:31 Upcoming Events: Oscars and Tennis Tournament

From the “PAFACAA” bill to the next front of the youth loneliness epidemic, the gang and a special guest digest the tech news of the moment.

Takeaways

• Eventbrite has the potential to offer features that help users find events to meet like-minded people.
• Innovative event ideas, such as marking attendees' availability, can enhance the event experience.
• Digital communities have faced challenges in the events space, with limited success on platforms like Facebook and Reddit.
• The quality and curation of events play a crucial role in attracting attendees.
• The impact of VR and AR on events is an area of interest and exploration.
• Virtual events saw a significant rise during the pandemic but have declined since then.
• The creator economy is a growing field with exciting opportunities for events and experiences.

Chapters

00:00:00 Doing It Live vs. Prep
00:00:30 Introducing Julia Hartz of Eventbrite
00:00:53 The Quirks of Zoom Interactions
00:01:12 The Heart Emoji Conundrum
00:01:27 Filling in for Brit
00:02:09 Discussing Brit's Iconic Glasses
00:02:42 Tech Headlines Preview
00:03:04 Julia Hartz in the Hot Seat
00:03:28 TikTok Ban Discussion Begins
00:04:31 Potential Global Impact of TikTok Ban
00:05:43 Process of Banning TikTok in the U.S.
00:06:39 The PUFACA Bill and TikTok
00:07:30 Jokes About the TikTok Bill Acronym
00:08:04 Custom Merchandise Ideas for PUFACA
00:08:34 Political Branding and TikTok
00:09:09 AOC's Vote Against TikTok Ban
00:09:33 Challenge of Explaining TikTok Ban to Public
00:10:13 Mental Health Impact of Smartphones on Youth
00:10:56 Shift in Chinese Government's Tech Strategy
00:11:19 Political Risks of TikTok Ban Before Elections
00:12:48 Possibility of TikTok Divestiture
00:13:04 Dating Scene and Event Trends
00:13:25 Resurgence of Live Experiences
00:14:21 Role of Eventbrite in the Event Ecosystem
00:15:40 Impact of COVID on Event Trends
00:16:24 Rise of Niche Events
00:17:56 Loneliness Epidemic and Finding Meaning
00:19:21 Future of Event Discovery and Participation
00:20:02 Role of Smartphones in Social Regression
00:21:13 Importance of Reparenting Ourselves on Smartphone Use
00:22:40 Resurgence of Live Events Post-COVID
00:23:44 Trend of Silent Book Clubs
00:24:39 Shift from Dating Apps to Real-Life Connections
00:25:22 Business of Event Ticketing and Discovery
00:26:18 Role of Facebook in Event Distribution
00:27:21 Challenge of Event Discovery Online
00:28:04 Importance of Highly Curated Events
00:29:10 Niche as the New Mass in Event Trends
00:30:21 Future of Eventbrite and Event Curation

Silicon Valley’s heating up—and we’ve got the inside scoop.

This week on More or Less, Jessica, Dave, Sam, and Brit unpack a whirlwind of drama: Google’s $32B Wiz grab, rippling’s spy scandal with Deel, and Gwyneth Paltrow’s bold intimacy coordinator diss. Dave’s back from YC Demo Day, where AI-driven startups are still fetching 25 to 40 million despite shaky traction.

Here’s what’s cooking:

• Google’s Wiz deal—will Trump’s FTC let it fly?

• Rippling vs. Deel: a spy caught in a Slack honeypot

• Gwyneth says no to intimacy coordinators—culture’s shifting

• Brit’s new AI-built app, Guarding, locks down kids’ usernames

Plus, Solana’s PR flop, NVIDIA’s chip wars, and Elon’s billion-dollar X raise.

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Connect with us here:

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2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:10 No introductions needed

03:34 The New York Times Ethics Department

07:06 Solana video disaster

13:16 Gwyneth Paltrow vs intimacy coordinator

17:03 Google acquires Wiz for $32 billion

18:59 Trump administration's tech leverage

30:08 Brit's app Guardling (higuardling.com)

35:06 The Silicon Valley Spy Scandal!

46:34 Are there VC spies?

50:53 Elon raises a billion for X

52:19 Drive-through AI and going bankrupt

56:29 Sam Lessin has left the chat

59:03 Outro

As the startup graveyard gets crowded, the Morins and the Lessins talk about when companies should quit and reminisce about failed investments. Plus, a More or Less debate on U.S. China tech policy and evolving views of LLMs.

Articles and books discussed:
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/storage-startup-clutter-running-out-of-cash-sells-itself-at-steep-discount?rc=hwneun
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/yieldstreet-nears-a-deal-to-buy-real-estate-tech-startup-cadre?rc=hwneun
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/venture-capital-firms-struggle-to-raise-funds-in-china?rc=hwneun
https://www.amazon.com/Quit-Power-Knowing-When-Walk/dp/B09PVR6YK5/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=quit+annie+duke&qid=1692292549&sr=8-1

Show Notes:

[0:00:00] Introduction - The hosts discuss their health status.

[0:00:23] Venture Capital, Startup Trends, and Choosing When to Quit - The group discusses past startup trends like the "Uber for X" era and how changing market conditions are coming home to roost.

[0:09:09] China and the Digital Trade Imbalance - The group discusses recent executive orders restricting US investment in Chinese companies and ask questions around why we only discuss the trade of atoms and not bits in the digital era.

[0:19:23] TikTok Ban Debate - The hosts debate whether the TikTok app should be banned in the US.

[0:35:00] Vision of American Digital Citizenship - Dave and Sam discuss their vision for expanding American digital identity globally.

[0:44:39] Supply Chain Impacts of COVID - Dave notes the pandemic highlighted supply chain vulnerabilities which influenced how everyone thinks about entrepreneurial risk.

[0:47:09] Large Language Model Perspectives - The hosts share their evolving views of AI, LLMs and regulatory risks.

Inside the moves and motivations behind the new wave of Trump-VC endorsements. Plus, Sam returns from Kilimanjaro.

The gang details thoughts on AGI risk and dives into the more immediate risks of AI, like why TikTok should be banned in the US and what to do about AI porn and deepfakes. Plus, startup product ideas abound as Dave, Sam and Brit debate what the future holds (both good and bad) for couples counseling, social media and entertainment. SHOW NOTES: [00:00:00] Open. [00:04:44] The question is not what AI can do, the question is what AI can't do. [00:07:50] Questions of AI governance around TikTok. [00:10:47] Should we be teaching AI in schools? [00:15:25] AI porn and its impact. [00:19:07] What does the future look like where AI porn is just normal? [00:21:04] Protecting teenagers from AI deepfakes. [00:24:22] The rising importance of real world experiences and communities. [00:27:21] AI technology weaving into social fabric. [00:32:55] What is the addiction after the addiction of TikTok? Does social networks become not who do you want to follow but who do you want to follow you? [00:35:34] What if you could pay to introduce hilarious characters into real life? [00:38:43] What if app features were only available for one month? [00:40:47] The power of human networks. [00:44:06] The power of storytelling. [00:46:21] Improving social connections with technology. [00:49:19] Close. TRY THE GPT: http://gpt.moreorlesspod.com FOLLOW THE POD: http://threads.net/moreorless FOLLOW THE GANG: http://threads.net/davemorin http://threads.net/brit http://threads.net/jlessin http://threads.net/lessin

Plus the boring phone movement and games, games everywhere.

In a special episode, the gang sits down with two digital media veterans and stars to discuss the current era of digital fame, the future of YouTube, TikTok, what A.I. means for creators, and more.

Takeaways

• The rise of small creators and the viability of their work is a result of the democratization of content creation and the ability to build communities of fans.
• The shift from physical space to online identity has allowed individuals to define their uniqueness and value based on their voice and audience rather than their geographical location.
• The challenges of fame and the entitlement of fans can impact creators' mental health and privacy.
• AI has the potential to revolutionize content creation by providing powerful tools for creators and elevating those with a unique perspective. AI also has the potential to desensitize people to personal conversations and wash away the value of authenticity.
• Investment in personal outreach and one-on-one conversations holds significant power and can create meaningful connections.
• Refined bullshit sensors have developed due to the abundance of AI-generated content, leading to skepticism and a desire for raw and real interactions.
• The value of effort and authenticity in content creation cannot be replaced by AI-generated perfection.

Show Notes

00:00:04 - Introduction

00:01:07 - Broadcasting from Lessinfest in Jackson Hole

00:02:40 - Origin of Podcast Title

00:05:48 - Tech World Updates

00:06:09 - Elon Musk's Pay Package Lawsuit

00:09:28 - Delaware's Influence on Corporate Governance

00:10:18 - Amazon and iRobot Deal

00:11:08 - Mergers and Acquisitions Climate

00:12:16 - Super Bowl 2024 Predictions

00:13:16 - Taylor Swift's Impact on the NFL

00:14:04 - Cultural Significance of Taylor Swift

00:15:25 - Changing World of Creators and Media

00:16:05 - Fandom and Influencer Shifts

00:18:04 - NFL and Celebrity Integration

00:19:47 - Megastars vs. Long Tail of Influencers

00:20:24 - Fandom and Community Support

00:21:44 - Middle Class of Celebrity

00:22:39 - MrBeast's Universal Appeal

00:23:35 - Niche Appeal and Creator Identity

00:24:36 - Creator Burnout and Quitting YouTube

00:25:14 - Creator Fame and Mental Health

00:26:30 - Parasocial Relationships with Podcasters

00:27:37 - Younger Generations Rejecting Social Media

00:28:13 - Personal Connection vs. AI Interactions

00:32:00 - There Is No Fame Like YouTube Fame

00:33:11 - Public Perception of Fame

00:34:02 - New York City's Attitude Towards Celebrities

00:35:16 - Maintaining Privacy and Safety as a Creator

00:36:28 - AI's Impact on the Creator Economy

00:38:49 - AI and the Value of Personal Outreach

00:39:26 - AI Enhancing Creator-Fan Interaction?

00:40:09 - AI's Potential to Devalue Personal Investment

00:41:06 - AI Brit and Real Brit

00:42:19 - TikTok's Creative Tools

00:46:10 - AI as a Tool for Creators

00:48:17 - AI and the Perception of Authenticity

00:53:48 - AI and the Value of Human Connection

00:55:25 - AI and the Devaluation of Perfection

00:57:23 - Pop Culture Corner

Plus, is MrBeast the new BuzzFeed? And the latest with Stripe.

Sam's MrBeast is Buzzfeed 2.0: https://x.com/lessin/status/1833545048543375856?s=46
00:00 - Introduction and A Mystery 02:54 - An Honest Review of The Mill 04:46 - The Happenings and Headlines 05:16 - Reflections on The Acquired Podcast Live with Mark Zuckerburg 14:41 - A Critique of the Live Podcast Format 16:43 - Reflections on The Apple Launch Event 22:13 - New Markets for Apple to Break Into: CPAPs and Parental Controls 27:59 - An Honest Review of Bevel 29:54 - Revisiting the Parental Controls Conversation 30:19 - The Information's AI Summit 31:44 - University of Michigan's Venture Summit 33:37 - The Bill Gurley Chronicles 39:06 - Is MrBeast the New BuzzFeed? 48:39 - Strategies and Business Models for the Creator Economy 55:19 - The Intersection of the Payments Business and the Creator Economy 59:08 - PCC: The US Presidential Debate 1:00:10 - Outro

The Morins and the Lessins break down what is really happening in venture firms right now from liquidating venture stakes to fundraising. Plus, Chinese entrepreneurs’ secret AI confab and Jessica’s notes from Beijing.

Discussed:

Colin Robinson: The Life of an Energy Vampire - What We Do In The Shadows
Chamath Palihapitiya’s Venture Firm Offered to Sell Hundreds of Startup Stakes
Chip War: The Fight for the World's Most Critical Technology

Show Notes:

[00:02:30] Energy vampires.

[00:04:33] Otter.ai technology for efficient reporting.

[00:09:00] Recording everything and privacy.

[00:12:41] Is being a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley like being a tenured professor at a University?

[00:15:44] Venture capital feedback cycles and accountability.

[00:18:40] Choosing Jedi or General.

[00:23:01] Fundamental beliefs and investments.

[00:25:11] Zero Fund concept.

[00:29:07] VC leading indicators.

[00:31:27] LPs buying stakes in GPs.

[00:34:51] Mid-flight venture capital strategy changes.

[00:39:02] The future of AI in China.

[00:43:11] Centralized AI ownership in China.

[00:47:38] US entrepreneurs selling beauty products.

[00:50:09] Feedback and podcast rankings.

Plus the Reddit IPO and Why Software Venture Capital is Getting Harder

This week, inspired by Barbie and Taylor Swift, the Morins and the Lessins debate the future of franchises and brands. Plus, the latest in the ecommerce wars and the winners and losers if room-temperature superconductors actually become a thing.

Articles and research discussed:

https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12008
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/shein-makes-an-aggressive-pitch-to-woo-u-s-amazon-sellers
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/inside-tiktok-ceos-plan-to-play-offense

Show Notes:

0:00 Taylor Swift concert and Barbie movie - The hosts discuss the cultural impact of the recent Taylor Swift concert and the Barbie movie.

0:13 Fast fashion brand Shein - The hosts discuss the rise of Chinese fast fashion brand Shein and its impact on Amazon.

0:27 Live shopping - The hosts discuss the trend of live shopping on social media platforms and whether it will take off.

0:38 Superconductors - The hosts discuss recent breakthroughs in room temperature superconductors and the potential impact.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠⁠

This week on More or Less: Tesla reports a steep drop in deliveries, investor confidence wavers, and BYD continues to close in. The crew also dives into:

• Elon’s "Fake News": More Drama, Less DOGE

• OpenAI’s record-breaking $40B raise

• TikTok’s algo standoff, and

• The UFC’s deal with Meta

Plus: Brit’s True Crime fascination with the Deel v. Rippling spy story!

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:03 Sam and Dave's clones

02:59 Are we getting closer or further away from Mars?

05:58 Tesla Drama

13:36 Elon News fatigue

18:13 Dave social middle ground and drunk Sam

20:20 Everyone’s vibe coding

24:13 OpenAI

28:03 Costs vs potential monetization

46:43 Rippling v. Deel James Bond Spying

49:56 UFC × Meta

51:41 Outro

Time for Part 2 of our More or Less highlights special! We've curated some clips to check off our tech bingo card for 2024.

This past year gave us Trump swapping press rooms for podcasts, the DOJ taking swings at Big Tech, BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF hitting record highs ($50B AUM) and—because why not—a government department named after DOGE, a not so subtle nod to Trump's pro-crypto stance.

What's in store for 2025?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(0:00) Intro

(1:13) Mar 29, 2024 | Apple v. DOJ

(8:53) Aug 9, 2024 | Google Antitrust Decision

(14:08) Oct 11, 2024 | Google's Potential Breakup

(26:46) Jun 12, 2023 | Crypto and the SEC

(35:27) Dec 8, 2023 | Crypto bounces back

(46:30) Nov 15, 2024 | D.O.G.E.

(01:03:16) Dec 6, 2024 | Trump and Web3

(01:10:56) Outro

Are incumbent media networks losing ground? Kamala stuck to broadcast media, while Trump bypassed traditional filters and reached audiences as an influencer, taking his message to Rogan and Fridman. Among concerns over echo chambers and AI-controlled narratives, there’s a flip side—more people now have a platform, giving everyone a voice. Guillermo Rauch of Vercel says “everyone needs to be empowered to create.” The more people who can build their own platforms and apps, the more we decentralize the conversation. Tune in as we break down the election aftermath and the future of content in a post-AI world. We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod Connect with us here: 1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

Entrepreneurs and investors The Morins and The Lessins discuss the week in tech, including Reddit's API changes, the perilous state of venture capital and Google's coming antitrust wars.

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/why-youtube-could-give-google-an-edge-in-ai
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/tcv-raised-50-to-75-less-than-planned-for-new-venture-fund
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jun/13/ai-used-to-create-new-and-final-beatles-song-says-paul-mccartney
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/andreessen-horowitz-merges-fintech-and-consumer-teams-after-some-bets-fizzle?rc=hwneun

Show Notes:

00:00:01 - Hosts Jessica, Brit, Sam and Dave introduce the podcast and Jessica thanks listeners for recommendations. 00:09:34 - They discuss Reddit charging app developers fees for its API and how this impacted Google search results according to an article. Brit and Sam share their perspectives from working at Facebook and in media. 00:19:16 - They debate whether AI is a game changer for the business models of social media APIs. Sam argues the public web is dying while Dave thinks there will still be niche communities. 00:25:14 - They discuss the current state of venture capital funding. Sam believes the conveyor belt model is broken while Brit mentions $84 trillion in wealth from retiring baby boomers flooding into private markets. 00:35:52 - Lightning Round: - They debate whether more smart regulation is needed for Google's search business. - They share their views on an AI generated Beatles song, with Dave thinking it's a cool moment. 00:46:00 - They plug the new Twitter account for the pod @moreorlesspod.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠

⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠

⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠⁠

The debate is heating up—DC and Silicon Valley are deeply split over DOGE.

This week on More or Less, Jessica and Brit hold down the fort (while the husbands ski Alaska’s powder) with media heavyweights Ben Smith of Semafor and Nick Carlson of Dynamo.

This week’s big swings:

• The Signal Group Chat Scandal

• DOGE divides: Silicon Valley cheers efficiency, DC smells ideology

• China’s BYD overtakes Tesla: Is Elon losing supporters?

Plus, whispers of fake AI revenue, ChatGPT’s image wizardry, and a nod to The Information’s SABEW haul.

Featuring:

1) Ben Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-smith-04b1403/

2) Nicholas Carlson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasmcarlson/

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Ben Smith: https://x.com/semaforben

2) Nicholas Carlson: https://x.com/nichcarlson

3) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

4) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

5) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

6) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:29 Our guests and our husband clones

08:23 The Signal group chat scandal

12:01 The Atlantic's marketing

19:25 Ethics impact

23:27 DOGE divides

35:06 Trump, the tech giants and pragmatism

39:35 Wiz deal, arms race,

42:44 11X and straight up fraud

49:50 ChatGPT's Image Generator

51:41 Using AI: what would JD Vance do?

55:40 AI and journalism side by side

57:02 Outro

DeepSeek—a name no one had even heard of until last week—has since given Big Tech a run for its money.

Soon after the news, they torched $1 trillion from Nvidia and other giants' market caps.

And while AI researchers call it “distillation,” aren’t LLMs recursive by design? Everyone’s distilling someone else’s work.

The real question: Did DeepSeek actually crack efficient training? Or just drop the right meme at the right time?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Trailer

(00:01:03) Under the weather

(00:01:43) News overload

(00:05:16) Subscriptions, trust, parasocial relationships

(00:14:21) DeepSeek and meme warfare

(00:29:09) Meme coins and the future of digital economy

(00:39:03) Regulation and trends

(00:44:04) AI is the tale of two cities

(00:49:40) Meta's strategic position

(00:55:29) DeepSeek questions

(00:59:13) Sam's watchlist

(01:01:35) Outro

This week's conversation covers a wide range of topics, including Google's AI fails, the limitations of AI, the future of digital twins, the challenges of modeling the brain, and the impact of AI on content moderation and entertainment. It also delves into the market value of Reddit, the decline of Quora, and the use of AI in SEO strategies. The discussion highlights the complexities of AI, the internet, and the digital world, and the challenges of incentivizing and moderating content. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, including the challenges of internet information, AI tools, digital identity, and the impact of technology on parenting. It also delves into product recommendations, humor, and the concept of beauty contests using AI. The hosts explore the idea of a 'big ass calendar' and discuss the potential for marketing through viral challenges.