MediaCat Magazine Podcast (MediaCat)

In this episode of Rebel With A Cause Opal Turner sits down with Asad Shaykh, Head of Strategy at Grey London and Group Strategy Director at Pride in London. This episode will leave you feeling more whole, confident and content. Asad’s holistic and poetic approach to life and work gives us beautiful lessons: from a productive mindset and philosophy for creative work and what makes great versus good, to a desire to manifest positive projections when it comes to our trans and non-binary siblings. A note from Opal: I hope this conversation makes your soul sing, as it did mine. Thank you again to Asad, and every other guest for sharing your stories, time and hearts with me. I am forever humbled and immensely grateful.

For the latest MediaCat Magazine podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Eric Tan, Head of Music, China and APAC Partnerships at Riot Games. Riot are the video game developers behind League Of Legends and VALORANT, as well as the company behind the animated steampunk action-adventure show Arcane on Netflix.

They spoke about Eric's role at Riot and how his first year in the job has gone, his upbringing, being born in Hong Kong and educated in the UK and US. They discuss where the idea for Arcane began, with the music video 'Get Jinxed' nine years ago, and Riot's plans for more animation, immersive experiences and concert and esports events. Naturally, they also dig into music, and discuss the song Milio, the gentle flame, a beautiful track on the League Of Legends YouTube channel. They also talk about possible orchestral performances of video game scores, like Doom Eternal's metal soundtrack, and whether Eric has seen the Apple TV+ show Mythic Quest, and whether that's what it's like to work for a gaming company.

Playlists

League of Legends

VALORANT

K/DA

For this latest MediaCat Magazine podcast our Editor Mike Piggott chatted to Tara Austin. Tara is a behavioural and brand strategist, but also, more importantly, a psychedelic evangelist, and campaign director for PAR.Global. PAR.Global is working to get psilocybin, the psychoactive compound in magic mushrooms, rescheduled so that the scientific community can study them, with the aim to use their properties for countless medicinal purpose, not least to hugely help with mental health.

Mike and Tara discuss the UK wellness industry and touch on political regulation, and political will, and how Gen Z and millennials are looking to shape the world as they want to be.

For this latest podcast MediaCat Magazine's Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Sinead Lambe and Helena French of Imagen Insights. Helena is a Client Success Exec. and Sinead is Associate Director of Communications. The conversation focused on the March theme at the magazine, 'Kill Your Idols', specifically in relation to Gen Z. Sinead and Helena talked about idols they had growing up, like the first generation of YouTube influencers, and how what they demand from idols has changed as they've gotten older. They discuss whether idols have a place in today's world, what Gen Z thinks about cancel culture, wholesome idols like Brendan Fraser and Ke Huy Quan, and where Gen Z stands on happiness.

Useful links

Jay Richards and Jamie Oyebode on Gen Z and joy in simplicity

Featured image: Ron Lach / Pexels

For this latest Rebel With A Cause podcast, hosted by RANKIN's Opal Turner, we have not one but two brilliant media brains as guests: Jen and Sally, founders of Craft Media. Opal was very excited to host this chat, as Jen and Sally spilled the beans discussing their unique place in the industry, and what happens when comms planning is approached, neutrally and holistically.

This chat comes in at just under an hour, and is packed full of wisdom.

Quotes from the pod...

'When we hire planners or strategists we almost have to break them for three months…. we’re very honest about it! You’ve been trained to deliver an answer in a certain way and actually, we want you to do the opposite. We want you to take a step back and think more generally. It’s like breaking a horse!' 

'We’re also teaching people to have a point of view on creative, because it’s been so divorced. Encouraging people to have a voice has been a huge part of what we do.' 

'As an industry we are forcing people to specialise too early. It sort of gives everyone a blinkered point of view of the world and the net result of that is they can’t step up and take an overview, because they only know their thing. And how boring is that?! I can see why people get bored.' 

In this instalment of Rebel With A Cause Opal Turner sat down with creative soul Lex Hearth. Lex is probably the most multi-disciplinary person we’ve had on the pod: a DJ, brand strategist and digital marketer who has worked for Nike and BBH London, and the author of upcoming book, 'Everything I Know About Marketing'. The ambition, passion and emotional insight Lex has for her work is infectious, and we hope that comes across. This discussion touches on how one spins all the plates in one's life to how to go freelance, self-confidence and legacy versus impact. If that wasn’t enough, you can subscribe to Lex's substack, where each week she picks five bits of culture or creative she's enjoying. 

Useful links

Read Bono’s memoir  Watch Virgil Abloh: How to be both Listen Rebel With A Cause archive  Deep read with Phoebe Lovatt 

Quotes from Lex

'Make a decision that you deserve to be able to create something and put it out into the world, and that your voice is valid in whatever space you would like it to be.' 

'It takes a lot of self-confidence to create, to believe that your voice is valid. I don’t have a fear of giving up, but I do have a fear of succeeding.' 

'There’s a really nice Lauryn Hill quote which is; "You may not touch a million lives but you can light up your own space.." I think that’s true. That’s how I look at legacy. Each of us touch a few people through our words, through our deeds.' 

'People think that money moves the world, but it’s culture that moves the world, and often money follows that.'

In a special episode for the Rebel With A Cause series Opal Turner talked to artist-turned-coach, Louisa Shaeri. Louisa used her own experiences as an autistic creative, her artwork and then neuroscientific research to form The SOLA System, a coaching method for neurodivergent creatives. If this interview was printed, you’d find half of it highlighted. We hope it will be as useful for some of you as it was for Opal, tears included. Louisa guides us through so much: from that sweet over-indexing of neurodivergent folk in the creative industries to pretending that ‘good science’ equals objectivity, psychological safety as the necessary grounds for creativity as well as strategy, and the burnout epidemic. Plus other soul soothing titbits.

Fact check: we couldn’t find the specific stat Louisa references on the levels of ND students on creative courses. However, The British Interactive Marketing Association BIMA Tech Inclusion and Diversity Reportvii showed that 20% of respondents self-identified as neurodivergent, this is a 50% over-representation compared with the general population. The report also identified that people with autism were 16 times over-represented in the interactive marketing sector. By contrast, ND people are under-represented in the employed labour force. 

Useful links

Find out more about The SOLA System. 

Take the Gallup Strengthsfinder. 

Explore the binary further, in this delightful podcast with Isabelle Bale.

Jem's work on circus skills creates a space that is not about getting it right. 

Visit Laurie’s neuro-queer network. 

Finally, since it is Pride Month, this is your regular reminder to give that £££. We encourage you to give to the disabled LGBTQIA+ folk, who are often excluded from so much of this month’s joy, and to our Trans siblings rights, safety, freedom and joy.

Quotes from the pod

“What is key for anyone who experiences any kind of marginalisation, particularly for those who are processing and perceiving differently and haven’t had that acknowledged and affirmed, is really creating a space of safety.” 

“The foundation of safety is what means we can access creativity and the strategic parts of our brains. Those skill-sets are so much harder to access when we are worried about our job or when we think we are going to fail a client.” 

“So burnout is your body has something to say. I think what a lot of people experience ‘ If I listen to it that means I’m going to have to acknowledge I can’t do any of this’ and what we do is project that into the future and think that we’ll never be able to do it.” 

“So much of what neurodivergent people experience is that the given paths didn’t work and they’re looking for how. What I bring them to is that we don’t need to know how. We just need to know what and why and let the why fuel the fact we’re going to have to try a bunch

For this latest MediaCat Magazine podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Rani Patel. Rani is MD and Founder at CALLING, Adweek Europe Future is Female winner 2021, and Campaign Top 10 Trailblazer 2021, and a returning guest to the pod. They discussed the July theme at the magazine of Truth and Lies, Rani's new agency CALLING, work the agency did for Trans Pride 2023, their Medium blog called CALLING Verses, which explores topics such as Black masculinity, trans pride, and advertising, how and why transparency is so important for brands and businesses, and where Gen Z stands in terms of truth and trust.

Useful links and info

CALLING was founded in January 2023 by Rani Patel and Josh Tenser, CALLING is a creative collective, invented for a world of change; advertising with a higher calling. CALLING is a different choice for brands seeking a creative partner that reflects the world their audience lives in. By using a fluid, collective model, the CALLING team is designed to constantly reflect changes in culture. Helping brands be seen by their audience — and allowing communities to see themselves in the work those brands produce. Clients include: Dr. Marten’s, Self Space, Inner Circle and Interflora.

CALLING VERSES is the writing platform by CALLING — the creative collective for a world of change. Monthly chapters by friends who are heard less often. You can find out more about CALLING on IG and LinkedIn.

Rani's first podcast with us: Rani Patel on the fluid identity of Gen Z

For this pod Mike Piggott spoke to Mark Fawcett, CEO and Chairman at brand and social impact agency, We Are Futures. Mike asked Mark about his article for the magazine on Gen Z's quest for fairness, and dug into just how much truth and lies impacts the work of We Are Futures. They talked about purpose, trust, radical honesty from businesses, and Mark shared some insight around Gen Z's wants and needs when it comes to what brands can assist them with; to help get them into the world of work.

Featured image: Polina Tankilevitch / Pexels

For this podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Steven Watson, Director at Stack Magazines. We start this pod in a slightly unusual fashion, with Mike and Steven immediately talking about moustaches, naked men and subverting the male gaze. They eventually get around to discussing magazines.

They begin with why Steven started the business in 2008, how the industry and the desire for print has changed over the years, how Steven picks titles for subscribers, who the subscribers are, why AI is no threat to indie publications, and finally, they talk about some of Steven's favourite titles (see the list below).

Useful links

10 of the best independent magazines right now

Indiecon Festival 2023, in Hamburg (Steven is speaking)

Stack's Discord

Russia-Ukraine war: indie magazines against hopelessness

For this podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Cody Amos, Creative Director at Heckler HQ. Cody has around a decade of experience in film visual effects, working at places such as Industrial Light & Magic (ILM) and Weta Digital. They discuss Cody's way into the business and the many hats he now wears as a Creative Director, overseeing VFX and sometimes directing himself.

At Heckler HQ Cody now does a lot of work for brands, creating adverts and so on. They discuss how this differs from his work on Hollywood movies (such as Spider-Man: Far From Home) and his thoughts on the ongoing SAG-AFTRA strike in the US and how the VFX community doesn't have a union in the way that actors and writers do. They also touch on some work Cody did for Worksafe Victoria, a campaign around gendered violence, and talk about the trend in film and TV to just 'fix everything in post', putting pressure on VFX artists. We hope you enjoy this fascinating conversation.

Useful links

Worksafe Victoria - campaign on gendered violence

Cody's FX showreel from the movie world (including work on Spider-Man, Star Wars and The Hunger Games)

Featured image: Unlimited Motion Ltd / Unsplash

In this podcast MediaCat Magazine's Editor Mike Piggott speaks to Lori Meakin. Lori is an exec member of WACL, co-founder of Joint, Founder & CEO of The Others and Me, and author of No More Menemies, a book about building a more gender-equal world where men are no longer the enemy.

They discuss why Lori decided to write the book (trigger warning: there is a brief mention of sexual assault in the first few minutes of this discussion). They then get into why and how men are lost and how they can become more pro-social, '90s girl power and what feminism means today, why it gets a bad rep and where men fit into these conversations, why patriarchy is not fit for purpose, and how the themes of the book apply to the advertising and marketing world. We end the pod with Lori sharing her four favourite books, as part of our ongoing series.

About the book

We live in troubled times: even though gender equality is proven to benefit all of us, including men, the anti-feminist backlash is growing, especially amongst young men, and cancel culture creates a climate of fear even for the men who want to help. So how can we get past the gender wars and 'menemies' mindset, and build a world that works better for all of us? No More Menemies answers that question. In it, Lori sets out a Reality Check on eight big issues of gender inequality, including sex, parenting, taking up space, and the world of work.

She explores the relationship between homophobia, transphobia and misogyny, how society has, for centuries, taught men to belittle anything ‘girly’ and to police each other's masculinity; and she highlights how much of the problem remains invisible to all of us. Then, rather than telling men how they should change, she builds from what they already want and care about. She’s spent many hours talking to all kinds of men, from undergrads to grandads, to understand what it feels like to be a man right now; and to try and uncover reasons why men might genuinely want to lean in to gender equality. The results are fascinating, sometimes funny, and full of hope and positivity.

Useful links

Buy No More Menemies in paperback, hardback or on Kindle

Follow Lori on LinkedIn for the latest opinions and comments

Find out more about her consultancy The Others & Me

And please vote for her to take the No More Menemies learnings to SXSW

For this podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Annalisa Roy and Kirsty Saddler. Annalisa was previously head of strategy at Grey London, and has also worked for AMV BBDO, BBH and Publicis. She now runs her own brand and creative consultancy. Her client, Kirsty, is VP Global Brand Marketing at Speedo International. Kirsty has worked agency side at DDB, BBH New York and Anomaly, and was head of strategy at BBH London before making the jump into the brand world with Leon Restaurants, and then moving onto Speedo two years ago.

In this podcast Mike asks Kirsty and Annalisa about incremental versus radical change and how you balance the two as a leader, whether clients know what they want when it comes to briefs, the culture of swim and making the water more equitable, how much brands can (and perhaps should) help improve our way of life, the water and wellness, and Speedos' plans for the upcoming Olympics.

Useful links

Speedos Swim United

Annalisa Roy's consultancy

Speedos' advice and blog

In this pod our Editor Mike Piggott chats to Claire Atkin, CEO and Co-Founder of Check My Ads, the adtech watchdog. They discuss how Check My Ads has evolved from an agency to an institute, Claire's definition of brand safety, dismantling the disinformation economy, what's happening inside corporations right now, what a better advertising system might look like, as well as the possible positive and negative impact that AI might have on brand safety in the future.

They also briefly manage to talk about lemons. This podcast is half an hour long, and packed with lots of insight and wisdom from Claire. We hope you enjoy.

Sign up to Check My Ads newsletter, to stay updated on the latest developments around brand safety.

For this podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Glenn Fisher. Glenn is an author, copywriter and speaker. His book The Art Of The Click was shortlisted for a Business Book of the Year award. He also created a copywriting podcast, All Good Copy, and is co-founder of The Fix, a project by copywriters for copywriters.

They discussed the state of the marketing industry when it comes to copy, and how copywriters need to be involved earlier in the creative process, the things Glenn learned from their inaugural event Fix Fest, long copy and humour in copy, as well as briefly, somehow, touching on I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here!

In this podcast MediaCat Magazine's Editor Mike Piggott chats to the founder of Studio Gilmore, Paddy Gilmore, about how and when he first began thinking of incorporating humour into his work, going into brands to do 'humour audits', the fine line between comedy and tragedy, how Sigmund Freud fits into all this, and some of the best humorous marketing and advertising work he's seen in recent times.

You can also read this written interview we did with Paddy.

For this podcast Editor Mike Piggott welcomes back returning guest, Lori Meakin. Lori is author of the book No More Menemies and co-founder and CEO of The Others & Me. They discuss a recent insight report her consultancy has put together, delving into default-male design, models of conversation and feminine coded characters like Ted Lasso, how advertising is portrayed in the media (speaking on Calvin Klein and that FKA Twigs advert), social media algorithms limiting your point of view, gender norms, lad culture and '90s girl power, and more.

About The Others & Me

The Others & Me was founded by Lori Meakin, a multi-award-winning strategist, author of No More Menemies. The innovation consultancy helps companies drive growth and maximise competitive advantage by a: Developing products and services for valuable but overlooked audiences (gender being the primary focus), and b: Creating a more effective, innovation-focused leadership and culture. Their recent insight report The Power Of The Invisible Women explores how default-male design and ideas are limiting business growth, and what we can do about it. It lays out the context, challenges, and most importantly, opportunities for brands who take an innovative and business-first approach to gender equality & inclusion. Because as research shows, they’re not mutually exclusive. And there's big competitive gain for those who get there first.

Download the report. To find out more about the work they do, download this brochure. Find The Others & Me on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Do you need to be a technical person to take advantage of AI?

Not according to Heather Murray. In this podcast copywriter Glenn Fisher interviews AI for Non-Techies founder, Heather Murray about AI, why she’s so excited about it and what she recommends less technically-minded people do to get the most out of it.

This is the second in a series of episodes MediaCat Magazine are doing in partnership with Fix Fest 2, a festival dedicated to copywriting, marketing and creativity. This year, the event's theme is 'AI or Die', and as well as Heather, a whole host of industry experts will be speaking on the day.

It takes place on 3 July. In London. We'll be there, along with copywriters and marketers from all over the world. You can find out how to join us here, and find out more about the event by listening to the first episode of the series with Fix Fest's creator, Glenn Fisher.

Featured image: Google Deepmind / Unsplash

The shifting reality of AI for boutique marketing agencies

Perceptions of how AI will influence advertising and marketing are shifting on an almost daily basis and staying ahead of the curve can seem like an almost impossible task. That's especially true of small and boutique marketing agencies. Thankfully, in this podcast, copywriter and co-founder of Mac+Moore, Natalie Moores, explains how you can make sure you don't get left behind.

This is the third in a series of episodes MediaCat Magazine are doing in partnership with Fix Fest 2, a festival dedicated to copywriting, marketing and creativity. This year, the event’s theme is ‘AI or Die’, and as well as Natalie, a whole host of industry experts will be speaking on the day.

It takes place on 3 July. In London. We’ll be there, along with copywriters and marketers from all over the world. You can find out how to join us here, and find out more about the event by listening to the first episode of the series with Fix Fest’s creator, Glenn Fisher.

Featured image: Google Deepmind / Pexels

Why copywriters and creatives need to go premium in the age of AI

AI makes things easier. It does the grunt work quicker. It’s a machine. This isn’t speculation, it’s just the way it is. It means copywriters need to focus on what makes them unique, what makes them employable beyond the grunt work. This is something direct-response copywriter and The Fix co-founder, Nick O’Connor, talks about with Glenn Fisher in this fascinating discussion.

This is the fourth in a series of episodes we are running in partnership with Fix Fest 2, a festival dedicated to copywriting, marketing and creativity. This year, the event’s theme is ‘AI or Die’, and as well as Nick, a whole host of industry experts will be speaking on the day.

It takes place on 3 July. In London. We’ll be there, along with copywriters and marketers from all over the world. You can find out how to join us here, and find out more about the event by listening to the first episode of the series with Fix Fest’s creator, Glenn Fisher.

Featured image: Darina Belonogova / Pexels

In this pod our Editor Mike Piggott chats to regular MediaCat Magazine contributor, Emily Fairhead-keen, Senior Strategy Partner at Wavemaker who, in her career, has also worked at MediaCom, Vizeum and Starcom MediaVest. They talk about an award-winning paper Emily wrote in 2015 (and subsequent MediaCat article), where she made the argument that brands need to be more superhuman and godlike.

They also discuss brands and showmanship, fairies and superman, oversharing and mystery, how it's OK for brands not to jump on trends, and how Jeremy Bullmore once offered her a cup of tea.

Featured image: Roy Reyna / Pexels

For this podcast we had a guest host, regular contributor to the magazine, author and co-founder of Genius Steals, Faris Yakob, take control. His guest was VP of Creative at Liquid Death, Andy Pearson. They discuss Liquid Death's creative process and how not getting bogged down in details helps creatively, as long as everyone agrees that what they're doing is a good idea and can be brought to life.

Andy talks about how the creative process often lasts all the way into the edit room, and how it's important to allow every piece of that process to develop in real time — to get the best creative product. Faris questioned Andy on the writing process, with Andy saying how he sees parallels with sketch comedy show Saturday Night Live (SNL). Andy then mentioned the mutually beneficial relationship they have with celebrities like Tony Hawk (in one stunt they put Tony's blood into limited edition skateboards), and how Liquid Death products made their way onto TV show productions and movie sets — meaning it was less of an uphill battle to work with actors, for example, as many knew the brand well from the get-go.

The conversation then moved onto their punishing production schedule and managing creative energy, with Andy saying 'ensure the creative process feels easy and fun — don't make it hard on yourselves. Don't red line all the time — find ways to sit under that.' Faris asked Andy about how Liquid Death see themselves as a brand or business, to which Andy spoke about how a lot of what they do feels like an 'elaborate art piece', where they really make the things they put out there as products — like their collaboration with snowboard brand Burton, where they made 'Deathtrap', a snowboard so extreme you would literally die if you rode it (as their lawyers were keen to point out). The boards cost a few hundred dollars and sold out within 25 minutes of going on sale.

They also talked about their collaboration with disruptive golf apparel brand Bad Birdie, where they created the 'Uro club', a hollow golf club which you could use to relieve yourself on the golf course if you got caught short — obviously from drinking too much Liquid Death. Again, this club, at the time of writing, is available to purchase, but has also sold out.

He also talked about working with The Deep (a character played by Chace Crawford on satirical superhero TV show, The Boys) and how when creating scripts it was important that they took the world of The Boys seriously — that Liquid Death exists there, as much as The Deep exist in ours.

'One of the things we try and do is toe the line between "Is this thing real or not?" and "Oh my god, it is real"', Andy said. 'We're just a humour brand at our core', he added, and 'we cut counter to culture and marketing — ultimately we want to be an entertainment company'. Speaking further about entertainment, Andy then touched on The Adventures of Murder Man, an animation show they're creating with Liquid Death's mascot as its main character. He was keen to point out that this wasn't to be an advert, but a proper show that they were keen would be picked up.

Editor's note: this podcast is 46 minutes long and, as you can probably tell from this piece, packed full of interesting discussion about Liquid Death's creative process. We do hope you enjoy it. And huge thanks to our podcast guest host, Faris Yakob.

For the latest MediaCat Magazine podcast our editor, Mike Piggott, spoke to Grace Francis, Jamie Mancini and Katy Collins — co-founders of new independent creative studio, Wonderful Things. The theme of this pod mirrored the magazine's August theme of 'Doing Things Differently', where Grace, Jamie and Katie discussed why they started the agency in the first place, looking to be more nimble, and how clients are increasingly more open to working with smaller businesses these days, not just traditional agencies. They discussed creating meaningful work, with Grace saying they want to 'say yes to work that can exist and lasts longer than a heartbeat'. And that it's about 'choosing consciously to put things into the world that have value'. Jamie talked about what he defines as meaningful work, creating things that potentially resonate with a small group of people you are trying to speak to. And Katie added that meaning can also mean work (and clients) that mean something to her personally.

The conversation then moved on to longevity, and the challenge of creating work that lasts. Grace told a story of their 17-year-old self remembering a campaign from water brand Evian, that really stuck with them. 'I want to make stuff that makes the 17-year-old say, I can do that too', Grace said. They discussed which brands and groups they'd love to work with (including Grace and Jamie trying to pitch an idea that would have had them meet hip-hop group, the Beastie Boys), Jamie's lemon spritz brand and his desire to make a short film, and Katie's love of sports and wanting to work with any dog brand possible. The conversation then turned to the current state of the marketing industry, with Grace saying the industry is going through seismic change, but 'it's essential that commercial creativity gets to exist'.

This podcast is around thirty minutes long, and packed full of wisdom. We hope you enjoy.

In the latest MediaCat Magazine podcast our Editor Mike Piggott chats to the Global Head of Research & Insights at We Are Social, Paul Greenwood, about their latest report, Next Gen Influence — trends defining a new era of brand and creator collaboration. They discuss each section in detail, from 'relatable realism' to 'extreme influence'. They talk about cosiness, redemption arcs for creators, and creators moving through different stages of their lives, culture becoming flat and brands being weird and subversive to cut through. They also briefly touch on why Mike hasn't watched Geordie Shore (and why Paul thinks he's missing out). So listen out for that.

This pod is forty minutes long, and filled with wisdom and insight from Paul. We hope you enjoy.

More about the report

A parent explaining the health benefits of ketamine. A Manhattanite it-girl, swapping ‘NYC’s best cocktail bars’ for Connecticut's best horse riding spots. A puppet show in which children’s dolls are sent to rehab for stealing a Marc Jacobs bag. One glance at the content made by today’s creators, and we see a culture in flux. Everything from tone, to topics, to production norms have changed in the decade since influence’s infancy. In the context of dramatic industry growth, creators and brands are having to keep pace with an increasingly professionalised landscape. But it’s not just the scale of the creator economy that’s changing — the wider tectonic plates of culture are shifting, and the values of creator culture along with it.  

As the world’s leading socially-led creative agency, that’s been working with influencers since 2008, We Are Social has helped brands navigate the growth of the creator economy for the last 16 years — from its baby steps to its present existential teen-hood. To understand what’s coming next, it’s essential for brands and creators to have one eye trained on the next gen of influence. We’ve uncovered five trends illustrating what that next generation will look like.

On this week's episode, MediaCat's Head of Content and Partnerships Selin Ozkan and Content and Social Media Editor Svilena Keane take over the MediaCat Magazine Podcast to discuss Future of Media, Adwanted's annual conference looking into the future of commercial media.

Selin and Svilena give an overview of the event, identify the trends from the talks and dig deeper into specific sessions.

In this podcast MediaCat's Content and Social Media Editor, Svilena Keane, speaks to the founder of The Empowered Author and Meet The Booktokers, Samantha Missingham. They discuss the evolution of book marketing and the idea behind the newly-launched platform, Meet The BookTokers.

This interview has been shortened for clarity and length.

Hi, Sam. Please introduce yourself to our readers

My name is Sam Missingham, and I'm the founder of a new community called Meet The BookTokers. I also have another community called the Empowered Author. My background has always been in marketing in magazines and then marketing in books. So, I started working in business to business and consumer magazines, on magazines such as Marketing Week and Design Week. I also worked on consumer magazines about cars, weddings, photography, gardening and all kinds of things. But I guess they all have something in common; which is actually about building a community around content as the number one thing. And then secondly, trying to convince that community to spend some money on your content in a number of different ways.

How have you seen book marketing evolve over the last two decades?

Book publishing is one of those industries that has had a healthy and robust book selling. We've had physical bookshops, we've had some chains, and we've also had independent booksellers who've always done really well. The digital transformation of the book industry, which started in about 2009, gave tons of opportunities but also some huge risks that book publishers had to get to grips with. When Amazon came along and successfully implemented its ebook platform, that was the starting point. They started with print books, but once they went into digital, publishers feared that the whole industry would go from a physical to a digital-only world.

We then also had Apple coming into the market with their iPhones and their iPads, which opened up a whole potential of apps, and book publishers thought everybody was going to read book apps or ebooks. At the time, some of the deals going on for ebooks were for just 20p. That is not a great model for a book publisher. Book publishers have one revenue stream, which is the money from selling their books. So if suddenly your books have no value, it's not a great outlook for you when you start putting that into the future. So, publishers panicked and tried lots of things that failed. They're not good at innovation on many levels, while Amazon was busily innovating and doing incredible things for books.

The marketing that happened for books was actually about marketing to booksellers. So that would be a whole strategy of how to communicate to the likes of Waterstones or your independent booksellers to sell as many books as possible. The difference between a bookshop and any online retailer is that a bookshop has a finite number of books. Now, if I put this into context, on Thursday (10 October) we had what is called Super Thursday in the industry, which is when the most and the biggest books are published because it's the run-up to Christmas. On that day, 1,900 new books were published. But what do you think about trying to get 1,900 new books into a bookshop? You have to think they are only going to stock the books that they think are going to do the best.

What would you say we're seeing today?

I used to work at Harper Collins, so I'm using them as an example. Harper Collins will have a number of different imprints. In those imprints they have a marketing person or a team, not very many people at all, and most of the marketing happens for a publication date. But the marketing stops at or close to publication. So you will have quite a lot of energy put into your book, it will get to publication day, and then it will tail off really quickly.

But of course, if you've never read a book then it's a new book to you, and that's always true. So if you have never read an Agatha Christie book and you read it for the first time, it's new to you. I use Agatha Christie as an example because she is still the most sold author in the world. Because they do a small number of literary estates where they do continual marketing. And also, her books have been converted into theatre and into films all the time.

When I worked at Harper Collins, my job was called Head of Audience Development — different from book-to-book marketing. My job was to come up with ideas across all of our books, and try to connect readers collectively to our books. I ran virtual romance festivals, where I did quite fun things using online tools, and I also did the same with sci-fi. I joined forces with the BFI who were doing a sci-fi film season and I said, 'If you like a sci-fi film, chances are you will like a sci-fi book. And if you like a sci-fi book, chances are you’ll like a sci-fi film'. This makes a lot of sense for us to join our audiences together. So I did a really fun campaign with the BFI, and I ended up with Margaret Atwood doing a chat online. I also did a big event with the Game of Thrones author.

Publishers do book marketing; they don't do audience development. And you see from the likes of Amazon and Waterstones and other retailers that their job is audience development. My personal view is publishing doesn't really do that very well. We have the best industry and produce a million things covering a million different topics that excite a million different types of people, but we can't communicate how extraordinary that is. We're not selling boring things. We're selling these little portable bits of magic.

You've recently launched a platform called Meet the Booktokers, bringing together BookTokers, authors, and publishers. What's the idea behind this community?

I am a complete nerd about publishing. I used to work on The Bookseller, which is the trade magazine about the publishing industry. When I worked there, it's when the transformation of the industry was happening. I launched something called Future Book, which looked at the transformative opportunities of innovation, but also strategically how digital would impact a business. I love innovation. I love anyone that does creative book marketing. I've seen that a great conversation happened early stages on Twitter. A new author could speak to a librarian in a different part of the country and a bookseller could speak to a literary agent. It was also bit of an opportunity for authors to talk about their books — this never really was a massive driver for book sales, but it definitely did sell some books. Lots of authors then used Facebook to keep their author community in one place. But again, I wouldn't say this was a massive driver for book sales. Instagram, ditto — beautiful aesthetic images of books but the nature of how you have to put in links meant that you didn't necessarily sell.

Then, TikTok came along — and we know that TikTok has been driving tons of book sales for a number of reasons. TikTok obviously has a shop and you can link out to your book sales to buy it from somewhere else. Also, booksellers have started to see people coming into their shops and saying, ‘I saw a fantastic fantasy book on TikTok, do you stock it?’ Even though on BookTok, every type of book is talked about, it seems to have lent itself to fantasy, romantasy, romance, and spicy books. No one who could have predicted that, but that is how it's trended.

The way BookTokers talk about books seems to really connect with people because they do it in all different types of ways. It might be a book haul or talking about books that they really enjoyed in their childhood or that have certain themes or characters. There's a multitude of ways that people talk about books, which often reflects how people talk about books in the real world. And it seems to really resonate with the audience to the point where they act. So, I was thinking, we know that BookTokers are selling books, and that BookTokers are talking about our books all the time, but authors and publishers are not taking advantage or connecting with them.

There's a massive missed opportunity here for all of us who are publishing 1,900 books and more a day. We need to find other ways to get these books into BookTokers' hands. That's what Meet The BookTokers is about — BookTokers sign up to the site and tell me all the different things about what genres they like, and then publishers and authors can post their books onto the site and say, this is what my book is about.

Finally, what's your vision for the future of Meet The BookTokers? Is there anything that you'd like to share about what you'll be doing in the coming year?

I guess I do have a big vision, but I am also very glad for it to just grow organically. When I was talking about the big BookTokers and the big publishers, and they already have established relationships — I'm not that interested in those people. What I am interested in is the huge number of BookTokers who might just be starting out and want to build relationships with authors and publishers. I'm much more interested in facilitating that relationship. If I can get a really steady flow of books going to BookTokers and Booktokers talking about them and then selling books, then everything about my site works. That's where I'd like to get to.

I am still only three and a half weeks in, so I'm still at the very early stages, and I have 450 BookTokers who have signed up, which I'm thrilled with. I'm so delighted with that. Obviously, I would like significantly more to sign up, but I know that that's a slow process and I don't have the money. So it's all going to be growing organically. As long as I can feed myself and my daughter and keep a roof over our heads, that's my short-term goal. I'm feeling my way with it, and it only works if everybody moves forward happily and feels like they get value from the site. I'm also a great believer that some things are going to happen that I'm not anticipating.

Featured image: nam mau / Pexels

For this podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Bob Sheard, co-founder of brand design agency FreshBritain. They discussed how Bob got into brand design, and how he was quite possibly the first man in Yorkshire to own a certain pair of adidas trainers. They talk about how he got into buying and selling denim, and how he was once brought on board to 'unfuck Levi's'... in the words of the client.

The discussion then moved onto how Bob loves the 'elegant decay of denim' and the preloved fashion market, and how imperfection in products are actually a good thing. They discussed how Gen Z and Gen Alpha are becoming more defined by what they do rather than what they own, and how Bob is working with Central St Martins to create pathways for more creatives to work their way up to the boardroom. They talk about brand design being on the cusp of massive change, how brands need to shift from making things to selling intelligence, experience and knowledge. And finally Bob shares how he once told Noel Gallagher he couldn't have a free pair of trainers.

In this podcast MediaCat's Opinions Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Simon Akers (founder and partner at Archmon) and Jaz Poke (Business Development Director EMEA at Omnicom Media Group), co-founders of new industry initiative, Neurodiversity in Media (NDIM). They discussed how the initiative got started and why there is a need for it in the industry, NDIM's Manifesto and what change and action they'd like to see from industry leaders, and how there is simultaneously both more understanding of neurodiversity in the industry right now, but also still a lot of neurodiverse ignorance to overcome.

If you work in the industry and would like to get involved and understand ways you can get your agency or brand involved, see Simon's post here, or head to their Substack and subscribe.

Featured image: Hiki app / Unsplash

For this podcast MediaCat's Opinions Editor, Mike Piggott, spoke to Tom Gent, founder and Head of Creative at award-winning content agency, Founder Creative. With a career spanning two decades in the media and entertainment industries, Tom has done a lot. He’s worked for the BBC on a plethora of sports content, produced Top Gear for a year, directed a film for UEFA, and worked as Global Creative Director for video games publisher, Electronic Arts. He now has clients on his roster, including McLaren, EA, Mercedes and mobile gaming studio, Supercell.

Mike spoke to Tom about the early days working for MTV on Pimp My Ride UK, getting into creative producing with his work on sport for the BBC, and winning BAFTAs for work on the Summer Olympics and Formula One. They also discussed how, during his time at EA, he managed to work with legendary composer Hans Zimmer on video game FIFA, blending the virtual and physical worlds, working with football stars like Ronaldo. Tom also talks about how music is fundamental, in terms of creating compelling video content, evoking emotion, and linking narrative. He reflects on what's changed with the media and entertainment industries over the last twenty years, and how this has impacted briefs from clients in terms of formats of content and delivering video content across multiple platforms, as well as proving effectiveness of content in terms of client briefs. Finally, they end by discussing Tom's time working on Top Of The Pops and Top Gear — and how the focus for his agency going forward is on gaming and sport clients; which is where Tom expects growth, and believes this is where the industry is ultimately going.

We hope you enjoy this podcast.

For this podcast MediaCat's Opinions Editor, Mike Piggott, spoke to Dan Calladine, head of media futures at dentsu, and Grace Letley, head of strategy UK at iProspect, about dentsu's new report, The Year of Impact: 2025 Media Trends. They went through the report, section by section, discussing the rapid evolution of the media landscape and how they now believe the industry to be moving into the algorithmic era of things.

The discussion touches on AI-powered media solutions, micro-moments and forging stronger connections with customers, niche communities, CTV and live sport, media publishers boosting shopper capabilities, and localisation and personalisation issues for global brands.

We hope you find this podcast insightful.

The report

In its fifteenth year, dentsu’s latest media trends report delves into the trends that are shaping today’s media landscape. It details how 2025 will drive towards a fully addressable, shoppable, and accountable media ecosystem, marking a shift into what is being defined as the 'Algorithmic Era of Media.'

The report explores the ten trends that will shape this era — including the tangible value of generative AI, the new territories for storytelling, and the quest for quality across the media value chain — and how brands can harness them to drive tangible impact and growth.

In the latest episode of Rebel With A Cause RANKIN's Opal Turner speaks to Ally Waring, Strategy Director at BBH London and Associate Lecturer on UAL’s Advertising BA course. From the impact of the pandemic on students to what got Ally where she is, Opal and Ally discuss what can — and maybe even should — be taken from the world of academia into the marketing industry.

For the next episode of our Rebel With A Cause podcast series, RANKIN's Opal Turner chats to Lucy Jameson, Founder of the acclaimed Uncommon Creative Studio. Full of excellent references and a range of topics, Opal and Lucy’s conversation touches on important subjects, such as Marmite, the importance of media and the lessons of Daniel Pink, to entrepreneurship and what Lucy might do if she was starting out today (hint: Thomas Heatherwick is a significant influence). 

A small note from your friendly neighbourhood chronically ill podcaster (that's Opal): I apologise for any sniffles and deep breathing in this pod, the colder weather is hell on my asthma.

For this pod our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to acclaimed author, blogger and speaker, Bob Hoffman, about age, wisdom, learning, and the constant and consistent failures of the advertising industry. They discussed Bob's title of Chief Aggravation Officer and whether his approach to aggravation has changed over the years, why he's both 'brave' and 'rude' about the industry, the reasons the ad industry never seems to learn, and why fame is the most reliable driver of success for brands.

They also discuss Bob's latest book: ADSCAM: How Online Advertising Gave Birth to One of History's Greatest Frauds, and Became a Threat to Democracy. 

About Bob

Bob is the author of five Amazon #1 selling books about advertising. He’s one of the most sought-after international speakers on advertising and marketing, and one of his books, "BadMen: How Advertising Went From A Minor Annoyance To A Major Menace" exposed many of the dangerous data abuse practices that went on to make international headlines. It was selected "Best of Marketing 2017".

He’s the creator of The Ad Contrarian blog and newsletter, which was named one of the world's most influential marketing and advertising blogs by Business Insider. He’s been the CEO of two independent agencies and in 2012 he was selected "Ad Person of the Year" by the San Francisco Advertising Club.

Learn more about Bob and his work on his website.

For the latest episode in our Rebel With A Cause series, RANKIN's Opal Turner chats to award-winning strategist and the 24-year-old co-founder (and Head of Strategy ) at archtype, Josh Akapo. Their conversation explores age and wisdom from a Gen Z point of view, including experiences of the myth of meritocracy, systemic oppression and using culture as a tool of rebellion. They question whether it is the job of the marketing industry is to the generators of hope. This bumper episode is full of energy and insight into the rebellious minds of the next generation.

Useful links

archtype

Josh Akapo's portfolio

In this latest episode of Rebel With A Cause, RANKIN's Opal Turner chats to UNKNOWN's founder, Ollie Scott. This episode tackles non-linear paths into the industry and getting the most out of side quests.

Plus... helpful nuggets of wisdom on ensuring the best employer/employee match, the best questions to ask during interviews, and the questions to ask ourselves along the way. (Shout out to Ant Jackson for an additional golden nugget of practical wisdom in there, too.)

Perfectly timed in a tragic era of lay-offs, panic hiring and firing, this one is a must-listen.

Useful links

Ollie Scott LinkedIn

The Dog Days podcast (Ollie is co-host)

We Are Unknown

For the latest MediaCat Magazine podcast our Editor Mike Piggott spoke to Jade Tomlin. Jade is Group Creative Director at AKQA, previously Creative Director at Tribal Worldwide London. She was one of Campaign's Faces to Watch in 2009, one of Campaign and Creative Equals ‘30 future female leaders’ in 2017, and one of The Dots '100 trailblazers for women and non-binary talent' in 2020.

They discussed side quests, and how much of life and work goes according to plan, specifically within the creative marketing industry. They discussed having a main goal versus getting bogged down in a plan, the impact of parenthood and covid on planning, how side quests can grow in interesting ways, and Jade's future side quest plans.

This latest Rebel With A Cause podcast starts with a shoutout to Jed Hallam’s platform for working class folk in adland, Common People, and its journey to redefine ‘working class’. For this episode Opal speaks with Headland Consultancy's Jo White. They dive into how being both the 'rebel' and the 'cause' often leads one to become cause driven. This discussion is peppered with brilliant analogies... from something about a concertina to the SAS and Trojan horses that we find in language. Plus some fangirling over Extinction Rebellion's tactics and more.

We hope you enjoy the last MediaCat Magazine podcast for this year, and we'll see you next year!

We kick off the MediaCat Magazine podcast for 2023 with one of our Rebel With A Cause series, hosted by RANKIN's Opal Turner. For this one we hear from Kenyatte Nelson, Chief Membership & Customer Officer at co-op. Kenyatte managed to give us an unintentional masterclass on intentional living, leading and luck.

Maybe it’s just Opal’s FYP (that's For You Page on TikTok) filled with ‘Lucky Girl Syndrome’ posts, but Kenyatte gives great practical advice on defining what we want — from ourselves, our lives and the brands we work for, because, in his words, 'It’s incredible how lucky you become when you start working towards something.'

Kenyatte encourages us all to see the value in pure curiosity, to reframe failure and success by defining these things for ourselves, which even prompts a personal realisation from Opal. Insightful, heart-warming and helpful, this episode is just the listen for starting your year with an intentional step towards being your best self, and absolutely nobody else. 

Opal wants to give a shout out to RANKIN CREATIVE's Through The Lens series for introducing her to Kenyatte. You can find the episodes here.

For the latest Rebel With A Cause podcast RANKIN's Opal Turner chats to Isabelle Bale, Strategy Director at M&C Saatchi World Services. Opal and Isabelle dive into the topic of non-binary thinking and how it can help move the industry forward. On the back of Isabelle’s recent win of the Chair’s Prize for Attitude & Inspiration for the 2022 IPA Excellence Diploma in Brands, this discussion explores the large amount of binaries in our industry’s practices. From hierarchy to audience definitions to scrapping awards in favour of a system like that of higher education. This podcast's shout out is to Essity, for Womb Stories being a brilliant non-binary piece of work.

You can read Isabelle’s paper here. Still hungry for more non-binary delightfulness? These two books are Isabelle’s top reads: Full Spectrum Thinking and Life Isn’t Binary.

Featured image: Delia Giandeini / Unsplash

For the latest Rebel With A Cause episode (recorded in February) the focus is on climate hope and human kindness, with a bumper book list to keep you going for the next 10 months. In this episode, RANKIN's Opal Turner talks to Stuart Lambert, co-founder of Blurred, a strategic and creative advisory firm specialising in ESG and Purpose (ESGP). The roaming conversation touches on lots of interesting things, from creating workplace culture (at home or in the office) to Stu’s view on how storytelling is actually a logical and strategic process, and of course, a little nerding out with Opal deciding Star Trek is the OG Hopepunk series. Jump in. 

Bumper book list

Charles Clover of the Blue Marine foundation Rewilding the Sea

George Monbiot’s book Regenesis

Humankind by Rutger Bregman 

Kim Stanley Robinsons' The Ministry for the Future 

'I’m sort of a natural storyteller, that’s what I enjoy doing. I always think of that as a really logical, strategic process.' 

'We conflate creative with art, there’s a lot of frustrated artists maybe in our creative, advertising, PR & Marketing world… but we’re not George R Martin, we’re communicators and sellers of ideas. I believe that’s more of a well-constructed argument that you persuade with.'

'There is real change happening and I think it’s important we know that and believe in it and feel inspired because what's the alternative?' 

'I do think that stories of hope and optimism and belief in an individual's capability to create a positive impact and make a difference, I think there’s a need for it.'

Featured image: George Monbiot's Regenesis, reviewed on jackwallington.com