Marketing Agency Exposed Podcast (Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres & Ken Ott)
Explore every episode of Marketing Agency Exposed Podcast
| Pub. Date | Title | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 01 Sep 2023 | Ep 134: The secret to being the best in the world | 00:42:52 | |
Subtitle: Though the title may sound suspiciously too good to be true, trust us, it’s easier than you think to become the best in the world. Today, the guys dive into topics surrounding the challenges of agencies recently as well as commodity agencies, superpowers, being the best, cheapest, or only, profit, mindset, creativity, and more.
Summary: In this week's episode the guys have a conversation about the challenges faced by agencies in the current business landscape. Bob highlights the conflicting reports he has heard recently: some agencies claim to be thriving, while others are struggling to retain talent. This sets the stage for a discussion on how agencies can create value and improve their offerings. Brad emphasizes the concept of finding a "pure play," a specific area of expertise that distinguishes an agency from being perceived as a generic service provider. He also mentions the business strategy principle of being the only, the best, or the cheapest to succeed. He points out the unique challenges faced by agencies that fall between being the best and the cheapest, often resulting in mediocrity. Switching gears, Bob asks the participants to discuss what agencies can do to prepare for the future and make necessary adjustments. Brad shares his goal of diversifying revenue streams by aiming for 20% of their income to come from their own products in the next five years. He talks about forming alliances with like-minded agencies to create a larger community and broader offerings. Brad expands on his goals, expressing his desire to utilize their products to assist other businesses, engage in acquisitions, and serve clients while also being a significant customer themselves. Ken emphasizes the benefits of launching one's own products, highlighting the opportunities for innovation, balance, and freedom it provides. He stresses the importance of achieving profitability to invest in research and development and to continually showcase innovation. He adds that discovering and leveraging one's superpower, accurately pricing the value offered, and maximizing profit are crucial for building a successful business. delves into the critical factor for project success, attributing it to the mindset of agency leaders and teams, who must commit to achieving success regardless of the obstacles. To wrap up, Bob asks the guys to share the most important focus or action that solopreneurs and agencies of all sizes should undertake for the remainder of the year. Brad emphasizes the need for business owners to take time off and reflect on personal values before returning to run their businesses, as this can provide valuable insights. Ken highlights the significance of making significant investments in one's business, including purchasing items that expand capabilities and raise the bar for service offerings. In closing, Bob encourages agencies to identify their unique strengths, become recognized experts in their respective fields, and dedicate the next six months to honing their expertise in those areas.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with his perspective on agencies and their struggles right now. “One thing I have noticed in the last month or two is I'm hearing a duality of things. I'm hearing, “business is booming, and it's great.” Or I'm hearing, “we're really struggling, we can't keep people.”” [4:23] Ken talks about things that he and his business are doing to continue to create value and get better at what they do. [5:23] Brad discusses the idea of finding your pure play, “something specific that you do really well that you’re known for” and how that can help you not be a ‘commodity agency’. [7:31] Brad brings up the business strategy principle that in order to succeed, you want your business to be the only, the best, or the cheapest; he discusses the challenges that are unique to the agencies that fall between the best and cheapest. “I think agencies are struggling between being the cheapest, and being the best, and they're actually just mediocre.” [8:10] Ken adds a quote from Dan Kennedy, “there is no strategic advantage to being the second cheapest.” [9:15] Bob begins a discussion about the pros and cons of being the cheapest on the market by talking about convenience versus value when your business chooses the cheapest strategy. “I don't know that the customers see you as valuable. I think they see you as convenient. So that can be a business model, but I don't think if you're trying to look for value you're going to find that and be the cheapest.” [13:12] Brad summarizes the pros and cons of choosing to be the cheapest, and highlights that while this strategy is possible, it is incredibly challenging to achieve in the service industry. [15:38] Bob changes topics, asking the guys to, “talk about what agencies can do as they look down the road into next year, and how do they need to adjust?” [16:15] Brad talks about how he and his business are pursuing a goal to reach 20% of their revenue from their own products in the next five years as well as an agency community. “So right now, we're in talks with a group of agencies that are like minded, who are looking to do a very similar type of roll up and to understand what that might look like. So we would still act as our own agencies and we would be part of a greater community and a greater offering.” [17:56] Brad elaborates on his goals, discussing how he wants to use his products to help other businesses, acquisitions, and clients. “make yourself one of your number one clients.” [25:15] Ken talks about the balance, opportunities, and freedom to innovate that launching your own products can provide. “I think it's essential to be good at whatever you do and to have your own place where you can fail and play with things.” [26:46] Ken discusses the wide reaching benefits of developing your own products as well as the significance of profit. “Let's say you make a million dollars a year, I believe you should have $300,000 of profit, like 30% or so after you pay yourself. Now you've got $300,000 that you can actually invest in r&d,like starting a product or a service or some area where you become one of your clients. Now you've got number one, an asset, number two, stability, and Number three, something that you can say, hey, I innovate all the time over here.” [29:55] Bob talks about the way to avoid lowering prices in commodities. “You guys are talking about the way forward; I think people have to think creatively about their sources of income, and not just rely on those commodity services, because those are going to constantly go through these waves of being lowered.” [32:31] Ken says that being aware of your superpower, leveraging it to you and your client’s advantage, and pricing your value accurately to create a maximized profit is the best way to create the best version of your business. “But you have to find the superpower. And then you have to figure out your cost basis. And then you have to add your profit… I talk to a lot of agency owners about this, and a lot of times I come up against a very limiting belief of like, “oh, we cannot do that. No one does that. It's wrong to do that.” All this stuff, right? And they're suffering in this really poor business model.” [36:46] Ken dives deep into a discussion about the determining factor in a project’s success, the client’s mindset, and relates it to pricing. “It turns out, the determining factor in success is simply the person who's like the leader, or the team, basically saying we will be successful one way or another. That factor is critical. The premium price helps sift out all the people that are not.” [40:14] Bob asks the guys, “What is the one thing that every solopreneur, small agency, and medium and large agency needs to be thinking about and or doing for the rest of this year?” [40:34] Brad says that all business owners need to take time off. “You need to go and take a day and not deal with the business. Go away, take a walk, and think about life and what you're about, personally, and what is meaningful to you personally, and then go back and run your business. It will help, trust me.” [41:13] Ken mentions the importance of making a significant investment in your business. “Buy something expensive that scares you, that is an investment, but also something that expands your level. You can't sell someone something for $100,000 If you don't buy something for $100,000.” [41:46] Bob closes out by saying, “find out what your only is, become the obvious expert, and work on that for the next six months.” | |||
| 27 Oct 2021 | Ep 92: Branding by example with guest, Marcus Meazzo | 00:49:41 | |
Summary: On today’s episode, we chat with Marcus Meazzo about branding, and how to make a genuine brand that people will relate to. Marcus talks about what he believes is vital to build a brand that will last, and says that although people typically think of branding as a logo or slogan, this is only a small part of what great branding really is! He breaks down the process of building a brand into 4 main steps. The first is to find your identity. Figure out what your values and beliefs as a company are, what makes you stand out, and define your second bottom-line. Next you need to build tone and voice “pillars” to help you illustrate and explain your brand to the public and your customers. You must also create a consistent culture within your business to support your brand from the inside out. Finding and identifying your true target audience will also go a long way to increase the impact of your brand and product. Once you’ve built your brand, use it to make a special bond with your customers that will be unique to your agency and set you apart from the thousands of emails consumers receive daily. Having a relatable and authentic brand that reflects your identity can help your advertisements be more original, drawing attention and potential clients to your agency.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Marcus Meazzo: Principal owner of Meazzo Design Co. From aspiring start-ups to fortune 100 companies, Meazzo Design Co. blends strategy, design, and user experience to help business owners with their ah-ha’s and turn them into influential brands.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:27] Brad introduces this week’s guest, Marcus Meazzo. “He has built brands for companies you might have heard of like PayPal, Dave Ramsey, Dr. Axe, hundreds of other awesome brands. So Marcus, welcome to Agency Exposed.” [3:47] Marcus chats about his eye-opening recent travels around the country in an RV before settling down in Wisconsin. “We were traveling around the country for about a year after we sold our house in Colombia” [5:54] Brad asks Marcus about his philosophy on good brands. “Talk a little bit about your philosophy and your background and things that you think a good brand has and what companies need to think about when they think about their brand.” [7:00] Marcus talks about the importance of knowing who you are and what your values and attributes are as a company. He also uses an analogy of how a house is decorated to illustrate important aspects of branding. “how are we going to help you get known? And what are you known for?” “What are your values? What are the things that you care about?” “if it's something that's not really you, if it's not your values, if it's not the thing that's really truly makes you unique, then it's not sustainable.” [9:39] Ken talks about how often you can tell which brands are genuine and which are facades. [12:53] Marcus says that “a brand can't be all things to all people, and they can't be who they're not” [16:19] Bob asks Marcus about how he communicates his brand to his customers and how that compares to how he communicated it a few years ago. [16:56] Marcus says that simplicity is key. “if you are too complicated, people do not stop to look” [18:00] Bob asks, “Do you have a process, Marcus, that you walk your clients through?” [18:49] Marcus talks about 4 key things to consider when building your brand. “values and beliefs would be first and then we would create pillars from that. We would understand the culture we want to be in so we really need to understand who we're talking to… Who are the people that are our ideal target audience… What are the attributes and benefits that would be a perfect fit between you and your customer?” [23:07] Brad asks about the best way to create brand consistency within your business. [24:16] Marcus says that the best way to create consistency is by, “making sure that what you're creating, they are actually bought into it.” [26:26] Ken uses Dave Ramsey’s business as an example of how consistency strengthens your brand. “If you're not polarizing, you may not have a strong brand.” [26:51] Marcus talks about how Ramsey has regular meetings about the values of his business and how “he wants his people to practice what they preach.” [31:58] Brad discusses how “creating a brand off of a celebrity that everyone seems to already know and saying, if our brand was this, this is kind of the personality of the person helps other people identify” [36:37] Bob relates branding to marketing. “don't build campaigns build conversations… people don't respond to ads, they respond to what they're interested in.” [37:43] Ken asks how to brand your own business? [40:11] Marcus talks about the challenges of trying to “write your own resume” and how it is often easier to bring in someone from the outside. “Everybody needs someone, someone on the outside to come in and help get that stuff out of them.” [44:01] Marcus mentions a few of the questions that he asks his clients to get them thinking about what they want their brand to be about. [47:03] Ken concludes this week’s episode by saying that, “I don't want to be known for a service, I want to be known for the result I created in the world.” | |||
| 22 Jul 2022 | Ep 112: How to lower stress and improve the enjoyment of owning a business | 00:45:08 | |
Subtitle: Today we break down various ways we deal with stress and the positive impact challenges they have on our physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual states. Stress isn’t bad. It’s the only way you can grow. But if you don’t frame it correctly, that won’t happen. Exercise, journaling, meditation, drinking water, and finding a creative outlet are all ways you can improve your ability to get the benefits of stress. We discuss all of these topics as well as failure, circumstances, anxiety, balance, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: On today’s episode, we dive deep on the ways we manage the stress and anxiety that comes with owning an agency. One of the best ways to view stressful situations from a different perspective is to exercise, and then approach the scenario. The endorphins that are released when you exercise help reset your mind and provide a more positive and clear position. It’s important to nourish yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually while also releasing any stress in a healthy way. One of the main things that causes stress and anxiety in the workplace is the fear of failure. Often failure brings pain and shame, two things that no one ever wants. Although failure can be painful and it can seem counterintuitive, we must experience failure in order to succeed. Embrace failure, and become immune to the stress, anxiety, and emotions it can bring. There’s no silver bullet that can eliminate all stress and anxiety, but we have seen the positive impact on our lives, and believe that there are healthy ways to deal with the stress and anxiety from the workplace.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob opens this episode with a chat about coffee, lazy mornings, and . [3:27] Bob kicks off this week’s topic by asking the guys, “What do you guys do and what can we recommend for other agency people to deal with their anxiety and stress? What are some methods and things that they can and should be doing?” [4:24] Ken discusses the benefits of being physically healthy and how exercise can change your perception of stressful situations. “The healthier you are, the fuller you are physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally, the easier it is for you to be able to sit in those situations and be positive, do what you need to do, and think clearly.” [6:12] Brad talks about how running helps his stress and anxiety. [12:56] Ken breaks down the importance of drinking water and the impact it can have on your brain’s function and your ability to view and deal with stressful situations. “When you drink the amount of water you're supposed to drink, you feel and think completely differently.” [16:00] Bob talks about how journaling helps him prepare and reflect as well as the impact it has on his perspective in stressful situations. [20:33] Brad discusses how his feelings can influence how he perceives a situation and the importance of balance. “I’m trying to hold on to more truths, and rely on a nice balance. Again, your feelings are important, and they're valuable, and they're valid, but you know, they do change.” [23:22] Ken dives deep on feelings and circumstances and talks about the importance of seeing things for what they are and nothing more. “See things for what they are and nothing more.” [25:46] Bob talks about the importance of being slow to judge a situation. [27:25] Brad challenges himself and the listeners to become ok with being wrong. “I think sometimes we go around and we hold so much stress, because we want to feel like we can't be wrong or you can't fail.” [28:49] Ken talks about the importance of failure. “The truth is, if you want to succeed at something, you have to fail at it. You're never going to do it on your first try.” [30:09] Ken says that, “You have to become immune to failure in order to grow and succeed at anything” [32:50] Bob discusses another tactic to help manage stress and anxiety. “Another very important tactic for stress and anxiety is prayer, meditation, and deep breathing.” [36:15] Brad talks about how it is unhealthy and impossible to take on all of the stress and grief of the world and how that can cause anxiety. [39:45] Bob discusses the importance of having a creative outlet to release stress. “Edward O. Wilson, I think, was a British philosopher. His quote really explains what we were talking about. It’s “The real problem of humanity is the following. We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions and godlike technology.”” [43:21] Bob wraps up by saying, “What we're talking about is doing things that are human, specifically that only humans can do. So do more human things when you feel stress and anxiety.” | |||
| 28 Apr 2023 | Ep 129: The business of creativity | 00:44:10 | |
Subtitle: As a kid, you were probably taught that creativity is something only for “artsy kids” and that it was “unique” but it wasn’t going to help you make money. In this week’s episode, we challenge that idea by diving into the importance of creativity in today’s business world, and how your creativity is the key to success. We talk about the stigma surrounding creativity, innovation, curiosity, mindset, phases of life, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: In this week’s episode, the guys discuss creativity and its relevance in the constantly changing world of 2023. They acknowledge that people are going through their own life changes, including shifting their businesses, experiencing layoffs, and adapting to hybrid or remote work environments, and everything seems to be a little bit upside down. They suggest that this is a great and necessary time to think a little bit differently, and to leverage creativity to find new and better solutions to problems. The guys then break down the stigma surrounding creativity, which is sometimes seen as a non-income driver. However, they argue that creativity is required to be successful at anything, and that it is essential for problem-solving and achieving goals. They emphasize that creativity is not just for creativity's sake, but rather that it is a skill that can be harnessed to create value for businesses and individuals alike. The guys discuss the importance of recognizing an agency's unique perspective and role in creating value for clients. They also touch on the idea that creativity sets humans apart from other mammals, as it allows us to imagine something and then bring it to life. The guys then explore the mindset of successful business people, who have a greater fear of not achieving their ideas than the fear of failing. They emphasize that failure is the key to growth and success, and that it is important to learn from failures and use that wisdom to have a grateful mindset. Throughout the episode, the guys emphasize the importance of being curious and having a pliable mind in order to be creative. They discuss the balance between discipline and creativity, and suggest that removing the word "impossible" from one's vocabulary can help to expand creative possibilities. The guys also touch on the cyclical nature of phases in life, and the importance of realizing that life and career exist in phases rather than one big chunk. They discuss the benefits and dangers of past, present, and future mindsets, and suggest that understanding where one spends their thoughts and time can help them to move forward in a positive direction. The guys conclude by emphasizing the importance of innovation and always looking for ways to improve. They suggest that creativity looks at order, blows it up, and then puts it back together in something new, better, more creative, and more functional. They use an analogy to highlight the importance of staying innovative and continuing to look for new and better ways to do things. Overall, this podcast episode provides valuable insights into the importance of creativity and how it can be leveraged to create value in a changing world. It encourages listeners to be curious, embrace failure, and stay innovative in order to find new and better solutions to problems.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:30] Bob opens this episode by discussing creativity and its relevance. “In 2023, the world has changed and is changing, it's a little bit crazy out there. And we have friends who are going through their own life changes, whether it's shifting their business, maybe going through some layoffs, their leadership styles have changed because people are hybrid or remote, and everything's a little bit upside down. It's a great and necessary time to think a little bit differently.” [3:14] Ken discusses some of the stigma surrounding creativity. “We're kind of brought up with the idea that creativity is not a is not an income driver.” [5:17] Brad talks about the importance of recognizing an agency’s unique perspective and role. “In our business, we don't create for creative's sake. We're paid to create.” [7:12] Ken continues to talk about the stigma surrounding creativity and the importance of recognizing that, “Creativity is required to be successful at anything. when there's a problem, you have to have the ability to be creative and get around it.” [10:34] Bob talks about the importance of creativity and how we as humans were intentionally given the ability to be creative. “I want to dispel the myth that you’re not creative. As human beings, we have that so we can solve problems and express deeper truths; it is so that we can reframe things in our mind.” [12:01] Ken discusses the idea that creativity sets humans apart from other mammals. “Being creative is the ability to imagine something and then bring it to life.” [16:50] Ken talks about the mindset of successful business people and how, “They have a greater fear of not achieving that (idea), than the fear of failing.” [17:01] Brad mentions that failure, “is the key to growth and success.” [19:03] Bob discusses the importance of being curious and having a pliable mind in order to be creative. [20:55] Ken talks about the balance between discipline and creativity as well as removing “impossible” from your vocabulary. [22:37] Ken breaks down a question he asks himself to break out of a restricted mindset. “Ask yourself, how could this be possible? If you ask yourself that question and really spend time on it, you'll actually find really great answers.” [25:58] Bob discusses the idea of the “leftover mentality” and the importance of realizing that your life and career exist in phases versus one big chunk. [28:18] Brad talks about past, present, and future mindsets and the benefits and dangers of each. “Try to understand where you spend your thoughts and your time, because where your thoughts are, that's where you're going toward.” [32:56] Ken says that it takes creativity to have a grateful perspective. [33:36] Bob discusses the importance of learning to fail fast and learn from failures. “Be able to learn that wisdom to be grateful, and say, I would have never learned that had I not failed.” [37:41] Bob talks about the cyclical nature of phases. “In our stages of life, there's order to disorder and reorder, and we're constantly going through that cycle. Creativity looks at order, blows it up and then puts it back together in something new and better and more creative and functional.” [40:59] Bob wraps up this week’s episode by using an analogy to dive into the importance of innovation and always looking for ways to improve.
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| 01 Apr 2020 | Ep 14: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 2): How do you lead and THRIVE through uncertainty and turmoil (Coronavirus or any other)? [LIVE EPISODE] | 00:56:53 | |
Summary: Are you worried about how you’re going to make payroll? Are your prospects not buying? Are you afraid current clients will put things on hold? Are you unsure how to keep SELLING? We have the same questions. While these questions are real, the key is to LEAD well through the turmoil and find the opportunity in it. Doing that will separate you from the rest. When everyone is running around in chaos, it may feel counterintuitive to be calm, but that is where the opportunity lies.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob welcomes us and speaks on the purpose of this episode. “We want to chat and do what we normally do on the podcast and talk about some things that we’re all dealing with as a business owner, former business owner, current, whatever you’re dealing with… Speak about how current business owners are responding to the current crisis. [1:10] Ken: This is a quickly changing landscape for businesses… we wanted to discuss what we’re all seeing… and how can we navigate this, not make rash decisions and actually, find the opportunity in all of it, which I think is the key.” [2:00] Brad discusses being reactive versus proactive and being ready to make that switch in the midst of the chaos that’s happening in the world. “What do we do now? How do we prepare for the future? What can we do currently to prepare for Q3, Q4?”
[3:02] Bob: “Let’s start with square 1- mindset. There’s this idea of everyone, specifically our clients, wanting to pull back. Wanting to like put everything on hold. And I think that can carry through to our mindset as well.”
[3:57] Ken adds that a lot of businesses are being directly impacted, and they have to react quickly and take massive action. The ripple effects of that impact all of us and our clients feel that as well.
[6:47] Brad asks Ken: “How are you personally keeping a mindset that is positive? Instead of thinking about the worst, preparing for the future in a positive way.” [7:00] Ken speaks about how important it is to control what you’re allowing to clutter your mind. He limits news intake to a need-to-know basis.
[8:50] Bob reflects on the instructions that are given by flight attendants on an airplane- that in the case of emergency, put on your mask first before those around you, as you cannot assist others if you are not properly prepared.
[10:31] Bob: “I think that’s square one for business owners and solo-preneurs and whoever may be listening- just make sure you have some sort of routine and put your mask on first every day.” [10:57] Ken speaks to the lack of routine that can happen when you’re working from home. It’s easy to never get out of your pajamas, to work for 15 hours a day, to never go outside. This is why during this time more than ever it is vitally important that you’re taking care of those things. When so much of our day to day routine is gone, it’s easy to lose that for ourselves. [11:47] Brad adds: “You hear people say they either work really well at home or they don’t… half the country is probably struggling working from home while the other half is getting a lot done.”
[12:51] Brad continues: “You have to have a strong plan, right? It’s good to know the what if’s- not from a place of fear but based out of a clear idea of what you need to do. So if you do get to the point where next month, you’re not able to make payroll, are you going to let people off or are you going to take a personal financial hit yourself and try to take that on…”
[15:42] Ken: Having a better understanding of your “Why” through this can allow you to market better and grow through this as a business as well.
[17:00] Ken: “We even grappled a bit with the idea of explicity selling your products right now… you have to do it. You can’t be opportunistic or anything like that, but there’s a right way to do it. Ultimately, the way the economy works is by money exchanging hands and people selling and people buying.”
[18:01] Brad talks about a commercial he saw recently. Cadillac has expanded interest-free financing, they’re delivering a new vehicle to you directly. They’re marketing “We’re all in this together” and that is a message that is positive and impactful during this time. [19:41] Brad: “I think for all of us in our businesses, how do we provide win-wins for our customers?”
[20:29] Ken adds that aside from explicity selling something of value by reducing the prices of all of their educational products, Metacake is also offering free coaching sessions. That’s not so much part of lead generation as just sharing their strengths. [22:30] Ken continues to share the ways that Metacake is changing their mindset around the situation. “It’s important that you keep selling, that you keep doing this stuff and you don’t just slow down because of other people, because there’s chaos going on around you. That’s the way I believe we’re going to get through on the business side, by continuing to move the market forward despite the pain and chaos.” [22:52] Bob: “Since all three of us have experience on the Digital Marketing side, let’s talk a little big about some, many of our clients are using paid media, online ads, whether it be Google or YouTube or Facebook or Instagram… there’s probably a pull to hold back on advertising… but more people are online now than ever before. And so there’s a HUGE opportunity- for those who do the majority of their work online- to actually focus on the current customer LTV, etc. How have you guys been approaching that?” [24:15] Brad speaks to his experience so far. “We are talking to our clients about it and trying to have a short term and a long term goal with our media spend and whether or not we will need to continue marketing a product that they currently can’t sell.”
[25:36] Ken asks if Brad has experienced clients pulling back on their spending. [25:41] Brad speaks to certain types of clients. Some are projects where Brad’s company is marketing events around the world that have now been cancelled.
[27:28] Bob: “We’ve had a question come through, Kyle says ‘Now seems like a good time strategically to up our marketing as a content production firm, however we’re also worried about keeping cash in the bank.” [27:42] Ken responds that financial stability is the most important thing, as Metacake does a lot of content and that financial stability is important. “We’re investing into creating content and in general we’re seeing consumption of that content going up, and we’re seeing ad costs go down.”
[30:31] Bob adds that tweaking the messaging slightly, not to be opportunistic, but to be genuine and authentic in response to people’s concerns.
[31:39] Ken: “Another idea is recycling things that you’re good at that you don’t typically sell.” He has gotten a lot of questions about how Metacake works from home and the processes/systems in place that makes that easier.” [33:00] Brad asks a question from the live feed: “How much money do you think an agency needs to have to get through this as a company? Where do you find sources to make sure you have cash flow on your balance sheet?”
[36:13] Ken adds: “If you’re not doing electronic payments, or if your accounts receivable is really big and delayed, this might be a lesson that after all this you should be switching to electronic payments.” [37:40] Brad reflects on the fragility of many businesses in America. “60% of American live paycheck to paycheck, and so if you’re one paycheck removed, you’re in a world of hurt.”
[44:00] Ken speaks on a “new normal”. Amidst all of the anxiety in our world right now, customers aren’t making purchases as frequently and quickly, but ads are doing a lot better.
[45:37] Brad adds that he has clients who have slowed down, but eventually there will be a new normal… right now it feels like week by week. “Even my sentiments last week are different than this week. This Monday I suddenly got a charge, a new energy. I’m more in a rhythm now, more of a new normal.”
[50:24] Ken adds: “As a business owner, it’s our job to continue to help them [clients] make the right decision- which is moving forward, in the right way… if you believe in what you do, and you believe in the results that you can create, that will help you be in a position to make the right decision.” [51:45] Bob suggests reaching out clients that you know are struggling and offering to get on the phone and talk through some ideas and let them air their thoughts. “I think this is where as agency owners and creatives, we can really shine.” [52:52] Brad speaks on the importance of being heard during this time. Some of your clients may not have support at their company, you may be working with a marketing manager who has no access to financial information on their end, who has no support from their higher-ups. This is a time for us to say “hey let’s be a part of your solution, let us help you become a part of the solution for your business as well.” [55:00] Bob: “I think this is a great time to be investing in giving back to your customers through content, especially helpful content.” | |||
| 25 Mar 2020 | Ep 13: How do you get and close more deals (even now)? With guest, Dominic Cummins. | 00:57:41 | |
Summary: In this episode, we have our guest, Dominic Cummins who has been coaching agencies on how to close more business for years. We’re breaking down his process for not only getting more leads, but more importantly, closing more business. The key is changing mindsets around the sales pitch process. With a natural gift in sales and a deep desire to see companies succeed and flourish, Dominic dives into his coaching strategies for agencies of all sizes- from those making less than $1M per year, to those making $50M+ annually. What is the best use of company funds to draw in new clients? Are RFP’s worth it for my business? What if I’m an introverted salesperson with a fearful apprehension of pitching and getting rejected? Today we dive into these questions and more.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About our Guest: Dominic Cummins: After over 15 years in corporate America managing sales and marketing teams around the world, he helped a small software company achieve a $500M dollar exit and took the opportunity to start his own coaching practice for agencies. Dominic specializes in bridging the gap between sales and marketing for companies between 50 and 100 million in revenue. Now he helps those within the marketing community through his Apex Path, a mastermind for agency owners to help them find and fulfill their purpose through a profitable agency.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:00] Bob asks Dominic about his career path. [3:05] Dominic: “I got my brokerage license at 19 and really developed a passion for sales.” He moved up the ladder quickly and by 24 was managing a bank branch but quickly realized that leadership and sales were not the same thing.
[4:45] Bob asks: What do you think is the thing that agency owners get wrong that you help them adjust when you consult with them?”
[7:35] Ken asks: “Why do you think people focus on leads?” [8:02] Dominic: “Well it has to do with comfort level… what I see with agencies is they just default to their level of comfort… I’ll get more people into the top of my funnel, and naturally as they fall through I’ll get more leads.”
[8:50] Bob: “It’s also easier, right? It’s easier to focus on getting that lead versus doing the hard work of the sales process.” [8:57] Brad adds that a lot of lead funnels are automatic once set up. This allows owners to go and do something else while something else is running in the background to generate more leads.
[9:58] Dominic responds to Brad’s comment on automation. For smaller companies at $1.5-$2 million in revenue, the lead flow is on some sort of autopilot. But for agencies with less than a million, there is virtually no automation in their funnels. [10:58] Dominic continues: “If you look at the typical conversion of cold traffic to a sale, it’s somewhere between 3 and 5% at most. That varies a little bit by industry, but completely cold traffic is somewhere between 3 and 5%.”
[13:37] Bob asks for an example of applying what he’s talking about with a larger, $20-$50M agency. [14:00] Dominic: “The principles are still the same, but at that point, lead generation has to be a component. All three of those things that I mentioned. Keeping in mind that most companies of that size are looking to sell eventually, keeping that automation of leads in line and going strong is really valuable.”
[16:11] Ken mentions that there is an excitement around generating leads, it’s definitely prevalent. For those who have wound up in agency ownership without being super intentional about it, going with what you know or what is familiar to you is easy to do. [18:30] Brad asks: How much percentage of your total revenue should go into sales efforts? [18:52] Dominic: “For a company to be considered a healthy venture capital acquisition, our cost of acquisition had to be between 18 and 22%... it did not necessarily benefit you to be lower than that…. I just say that 20% of acquisition costs is a good number.”
[20:48] Brad responds that at a certain point you have to ask “how much more are we going to throw into acquiring a new customer?” It really depends on understanding the customer's value in a year or two- you have to weigh that. [21:57] Dominic adds: “If it costs you $20K to acquire a customer but you only cash collect $5K, $20K to acquire the next few and only cash collect $10K, you’ve spent $40K to only cash collect $15K- you’re broke.” [24:23] Ken adds: “If you don’t know your profit margin on the services you provide, that makes it even harder.” [25:15] Brad: Talk about how you can judge what is worth your time versus when you might need to walk away from an RFP. [26:12] Dominic responds: “If you’re less than a million dolars, I don’t think you should play in the RFP world because there’s too much rent. As you get larger, that’s fine, you can take that risk.”
[30:00] Ken adds that his perspective is a bit different. “It’s basically gambling with a lot of money and a lot of time, time being even more expensive than they money side of it.” [30:25] Brad adds that he only participates in RFP’s if a client has already told him they were in the running- there has to be a sense of possibility in it in order for it to be worth it. [31:37] Ken adds that RFP’s are notoriously a pain, as they set up the relationship dynamic very poorly. One party will invest a lot of time and effort to “the royalty” in hopes of getting “knighted”... this creates an imbalance in the relationship. [32:54] Bob: “If I’m a business owner and I want to get a bunch of work done, I need to shop around to get the best price.” [33:23] Ken: “There is a bar that the RFP process often goes over in pitching, which is beyond ‘here’s what i think it will cost’ to the point where you’re spending $50K to send 5 peopel out there and throw a pitch at them along with the RFP.” [34:00] Dominic adds: Often RFP’s are used a lot in the government, when vetting of security clearances is necessary, etc. [35:48] Brad asks: “What advice would you give someone who doesn’t have a ton of money to send people out and fly around… where woudl you put the energy?” [37:00] Dominic responds: “Work your network… stay close to people and talk to them.”
[42:36] Brad: “I seem to avoid that human contact because I’m kind of afraid of rejection.”
[43:15] Dominic adds that when you do meet people in person, think of it the same way you do with CTA’s on a landing page. That landing page isn’t meant to make the sale, it’s meant to encourage the visitor to opt-in. So when you meet someone in person, think of it as trying to get them to “opt-in” instead of making a hard sale.
[44:50] Ken adds that: “If you switch the idea or the mindset- when I meet someone I’m not trying to sell them, talk about my resume, make them think I’m awesome. I’m just trying to gather information- then you don’t have to fear the rejection so badly.”
[46:39] Dominic: “It feels less like rejection when all you’ve done is offered to help. If they choose not to take your help, that’s not rejecting you. They’ve rejected the help… which doesn’t make sense to most people.”
[48:40] Brad adds that changing the mindset is super helpful. Asks “Who is the right team when you’re pitching?” [50:10] Dominic: “Avoid founder selling syndrome, where the founder is really the only one who can make the sales- and that’s because your sales process isn’t good enough, you’re not articulating it well enough to teach other people to do it.” [50:45] Dominic mentions Make RC who runs large podcasts and has an agency that caters specifically to certain kinds of gyms.
[52:19] Bob asks one final question: What would you say is the one thing that any business of any size could do that could generate more referral business for them? [52:54] Dominic: “Treat them well. We are very good at following up on a sales basis.”
[55:13] Dominic plugs his website: apexpath.com or follow him on LinkedIn! | |||
| 04 Nov 2022 | Ep 119: Be in the time maximization business | 00:48:47 | |
Subtitle: We’ve all waited in line for long periods of time, either by choice or necessity. As businesses, we want to be the business consumers choose to wait in line for, but be aware of what people pay for. It’s all about time, gaining more time, achieving something faster, and enjoying the time they spend. To that end, every business is in the time maximization business. On today’s episode, we break down the importance of time, time management, customer service, being proactive, pursuing purpose and meaning, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: On today’s episode, Brad discusses a negative experience he had recently with the healthcare industry and how that’s helped him view customer service and time differently. One of the major lessons all businesses should take from Brad’s experience is customer service. No one likes waiting, and time is everyone’s most valuable asset. This is why customer service is so crucial. It’s also important to remember that your clients are, in a sense, your boss; you wouldn’t want to be disrespectful to or offend your boss. Because time is your most valuable asset, it’s important to manage it well. Whether it’s by blocking out chunks of your day on your calendar, having a checklist, or some other plan, figure out what works best for you to manage your time. Don’t waste your time; it’s limited and you can’t earn it back. This is way easier said than done, so one way to manage your time well is to not get sucked into reacting to and putting out the daily fires. Take a moment to assess the situation and then decide the level of urgency and if it’s an emergency and then go from there. Maybe have a time of day when you answer any of your team’s questions and understand the day’s squeaky wheels. Remember to pursue purpose and meaning over success and passion; those will come in time. In conclusion, maximizing your time and your customers’ time is the key to becoming the line they want and choose to wait in.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with a discussion about production. [2:48] Bob introduces the topic for this episode, time management and lessons to learn from the healthcare industry. [3:16] Brad talks about productivity and how he spends his time along with his struggles with time management. [6:47] Brad breaks down his recent experience with the healthcare industry and launches a discussion about the lessons all businesses should take from this experience. “There are two things that will bring people back to their health care providers. Number one is empathy, and number two is time.” [9:17] Ken says that, “if every business ran the way a health care hospital or doctor's office runs, most businesses will be out of business.” [11:11] Brad elaborates on his challenges with his recent experience and talks about his empathy for the dentist as well as his shared struggles. “I struggle with the same thing. I struggle with trying to run a business and also making sure our clients are satisfied and feeling like they’re serviced.” [12:52] Bob talks about some of the lessons to be learned from this experience as well as the shift the healthcare industry is having and the allowances that need to be made because of this shift. [17:17] Ken talks about the value of time and how it is often overlooked as the most valuable resource. [18:37] Ken says that it’s important to recognize your superpower and to leverage it so that people would want and choose to wait in line for you and your business. [23:03] Ken talks about the three things a business can do to earn other people’s time. “If you can determine what the problem is, be really really good at solving that problem, and become famous for that problem, you can have a line out your door.” [27:20] Brad discusses how this experience has impacted how he views customer service and interactions. [28:37] Brad asks the guys how they manage their time and avoid getting sucked into putting out fires all day. [29:05] Bob talks about how he uses task lists to motivate him and manage his time [32:29] Ken says that he is in between Brad and Bob and that he believes, “no matter what your personality is, in order to get something done, you need to focus on it. In order to focus, you need to develop the discipline muscle to not chase squeaky wheels. I do this with my customer in mind. I look at it as, okay, I'm going to decide if this is an emergency or not, not you. In order to have a successful, peaceful, well balanced agency or any service business, you need to take ownership of what you’re going to do and when.” [34:04] Bob summarizes Ken’s thoughts on how he manages his time. “Be the thermostat, not the thermometer.” [34:08] Ken talks about the importance of recognizing the process when measuring success by results. “You have to have the awareness of not just measuring success by the result, because the result may not be there.” [40:01] Bob discusses the book, “The War of Art” by Steven Pressfield and how it relates to this discussion of productivity and time management in the business world. [43:30] Bob wraps up by talking about the importance of pursuing purpose in order to find happiness, passion, and hopefully success. “Do not pursue success, but actually follow purpose. Don't pursue happiness, pursue purpose, and when you and when you pursue and are involved in purpose and meaning, passion will ensue.”
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| 10 Jun 2020 | Ep 24: How Does Diversity apply to Agency Business? With guest Calvin Nowell | 01:05:51 | |
Summary: When we launched our podcast and put together a list of possible guests, Calvin Nowell was part of that list. And today, the timing is perfect in light of the current social tensions. Calvin is a close friend and has worked in the agency world for a while now. Calvin recently started his own agency called, Cmon Creative (during the Covid-19 pandemic too!), and today we talk with him about the story of his start, the struggles he’s seen as a business owner, and his unique perspective as a black man in the agency world. In this episode we’re searching for the good, the opportunities, as we always do. No matter where you stand on the current social issues, education is key if you want to move in a positive direction. Calvin talks about his journey to starting Cmon Creative in April of this year, his experience in advertising, and what agency owners (and individuals) can do TODAY to begin moving towards broader perspectives of reaching an audience.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Calvin Nowell of Cmon Creative is a seasoned marketer, speaker, and niche influencer. He hosts a podcast called Show Up w/ Calvin Nowell which offers advice alongside industry-specific experts to help encourage people to reach their full potential. He’s an overall creative expert who assists in marketing strategies AND is also an accomplished musician, having worked with Grammy-winning artists Stevie Wonder, Tori Kelly, Michael W Smith, and more. He also provides branding, marketing management, and vocal expertise for those artists. We are so pumped to have him on the show today!
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:05] Bob introduces this week’s guest Calvin Nowell. [2:17] Brad welcomes Calvin to the show, speaking about their history of friendship and working together. [2:47] Calvin speaks about his move to Franklin from Cincinnati 18 years ago. He initially wanted to get into working behind the scenes in the music industry, eventually being drawn to singing. Opportunities arose that allowed him to get into artist management, and eventually moved full time into marketing.
[5:15] Brad asks Calvin to explain the meaning behind Cmon Creative and what led him to naming his business. [5:17] Calvin talks about growing up in church in the black community, it’s common to hear people say “C’mon!” when they hear something they are passionate about and connect with. It’s a word of encouragement in his life, regardless of who he’s around, and became very influential in other people’s lives as well.
[8:00] Brad talks about how Calvin has always encouraged him to show up and participate, which is reflected in his use of the term and the name of his company. [8:26] Bob asks about Calvin's business in the time of Covid. [8:44] Calvin talks about how his agency hasn’t been impacted, but his weekend job traveling with Michael W Smith has stopped, obviously.
[9:52] Calvin: “This is an opportunity to reshape culture versus rebrand it.”
[10:54] Calvin speaks on the racial tension that we are experiencing as a disruption as well.
[12:03] Bob says the idea of reshaping sounds different than other buzzwords we’ve heard a lot lately. [13:00] Bob asks what the day to day looks like at Cmon Creative for Calvin. [14:08] Calvin: Cmon is a full-service creative agency, helping clients connect dots strategically. They also dabble in video production, social media, Christian film studio company, non-profits.
[15:58] Calvin speaks on the current opportunity to speak to black voices and stand for them in a new way. He’s struggled himself to be in the business world because of both his skin and his weight- whether intentional or not, the result is that he’s had to create his own thing.
[18:45] Calvin speaks about being a bridge-builder in his community. He goes to a predominantly white church, lives in predominantly white Franklin, TN. He gives examples of not seeing men like him represented in his community, and refers to the recent push to “Diversify or Else.” Ultimately, “Diversity is just better.”
[19:52] Ken asks if there is resistance towards diversity or is it a lack of education around the advantages of diversity. [20:11] Calvin tells a story about a company he applied to work for. He got 4-5 rounds of interviews and was referred by a Sr VP.
[22:53] Calvin says that big ad agencies often try to represent black or people of color but just don’t get it right, because they’re not a truly diverse company. If there were people of color in that meeting, those commercials would represent people with much more compassion and care. [24:15] Bob speaks about unconscious ignorance as well, and his experience with many people just not being aware of their bias. In recent months, the news has become so direct with the message that unconscious ignorance isn’t really an excuse to hide behind anymore.
[24:50] Calvin says that in order to be aware of our own biases, we have to take a look at our lives and businesses and ask who’s missing. In the same way that we value young people for access to social media and expertise in that area, we rely on older people to inform us of taking care of our retirement funds. Why not with race as well? Be intentional about awareness of your bias. [28:00] Ken: Speaks on his experience of growing up in Queens and how that impacted his cultural identity. Truly the issue goes so much deeper than skin color, but sinks into culture and tradition and so much more than just skin color. Recent events have simplified and in many cases oversimplified the issues and are not doing real justice to the socioeconomic implications. [30:00] Calvin recalls conversations with other people of color and realizing how deep colorism goes. Not just racially.
[33:48] Brad asks what sort of advice Calvin might have. [34:07] Calvin: First, look at your team and ask who’s missing. Not necessarily hiring someone right away, but keeping that blind spot on your radar.
[35:29] Ken asks if being part of the “quota” is offensive. [35:35] Calvin says yes but he’ll take it. “You can show people better than you can tell them.”
[38:00] Calvin continues: If anything I hope this episode inspires just one person to say hey maybe we do need to see who’s at the table and make some changes. [40:10] Bob speaks about his black friends who own agencies. They focus on the urban market and people go directly to them when they need that perspective. Bob asks Calvin why they might have zeroed in on that market specifically? [41:01] Calvin responds that they saw an opportunity and created a solution for a need. It’s a default because they know they can fill a need, versus being considered as an option as an agency on equal footing with everyone else.
[45:20] Ken speaks to the similarity between that struggle and others that struggle to have the financial means to be successful, the challenges within both of those to work harder than anyone else and produce at a higher level than anyone else. [48:20] Brad speaks on his desire to be able to walk through life confident in who he is without anything else, just as himself. And says that the world would be such a better place, we would all appreciate each other so much more if we could just let go of those holdups and incorrect beliefs about ourselves.
[50:00] Calvin talks about his lack of encouragement growing up. As a result, he never sang until college and his parents had no idea what talent he had. After therapy and life happening over time, he began to realize that there were other passions and talents he had that were never encouraged either, like his passion for advertising. [51:50] Calvin continues: Brad gave him a chance to see what the industry was like from the inside. He was dreaming of having an agency of his own and simply needed the exposure to the process, so that was an enormous gift for him. [53:50] Calvin talks about the impact Oprah has had on him, and his experience at her 2020 Vision event. She said “I want to encourage you this year to bet on yourself,” and shared her experience bargaining with the co-creators of her show. Their disbelief became leverage for her determination, and it obviously worked in her favor over time. This became his permission to truly step into starting his agency in April 2020. [56:47] Calvin: “We’re all looking for validation, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. We need to accept that… forget the [blm] movement and its intention or whatever, but people are simply asking ‘Do you care? Do I matter?’”
[1:00:00] Ken mentions the quote “Proximity breeds empathy.”
[1:03:05] Calvin: Being intentional is the first step, but you have to be PRESENT in that intentionality. Really allow yourself to see/hear/value that other person or people group. Let them know they are being heard. | |||
| 26 May 2021 | Ep 74: The Marketing Benefits of iOS 14.5 | 00:40:26 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we look at the benefits of the iOS 14.5 update to marketers and agencies as they serve their clients. We’ve heard all of the noise about how the privacy updates will kill digital advertising, but the truth is advertising was around way before the tracking that we currently know.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken: | |||
| 11 Mar 2020 | Ep 11: Who Needs an Agency? With guest David Dutton of the ReplaceYourMortgage craze. | 01:06:47 | |
Summary: David is a self-made solo-preneur from right here in Nashville. With massive achievements inbusiness, marketing, celebrity branding, book publishing and more, David is helping us understand the other side of agency life. As someone who’s passion for business growth has propelled him to the forefront of his field, David helps us dig into the role agencies have played in his journey and drops some great marketing advice around value propositions, and using buyer skepticism to your advantage (even writing entire marketing campaigns based on those skepticisms!).
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Author of seven books and a millionaire entrepreneur, David Dutton’s story and knowledge of marketing will astound you. From starting with nothing to building a multi million dollar business from scratch in just four years, you are surely going to get some takeaways from our sit down interview with him.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:00] Bob introduces David Dutton [1:25] David gives an overview of his life and the road that led him to Ecommerce. Speaks on the Ecommerce wave of the early 2000’s.
[8:00] In 2001 David started replaceyourmortgage.com to teach people to pay off their mortgage in 5 to 7 years. [9:35] Ken clarifies: “The thing you’re selling is education.”
[9:56] Bob remarks on David’s self-teaching. Oftentimes people hire agencies to do the things that David has done, so his view of agencies is a unique one, as both the customer and the provider. [10:55] Brad asks: How is your style different from what agencies have done? How does your passion and “having skin in the game” impact the way you do business? [11:48] David: “Bottom line, I look for results… branding and direct response is important… when I interview an agency I need to know that we’re going to geta result. That’s teh biggest thing for me.” [12:20] David’s rule for salespeople:
[12:49] Ken asks about David’s role within his team. [13:00] David: “I have an assistant, my partner has an assistant, then 8 salepeople and a couple support roles.”
[14:55] Bob: Talk about how you value cost of acquisition and lifetime value of customer. [15:30] David: “Once a human being has handed you their visa, they’re 6x more likely to do it again.”
[17:18] Brad: “So that’s how you get that authority, with that book. Understanding those strong concepts is the way to go… How do you overcome the naysayers with proof?” [18:25] David: “If I want to convince someone to hand me their Visa… you have to knock the walls down to get to that point.” [19:00] David: “I try to make it so that there is a preponderance of truth...I try to stack that so it’s obvious.”
[20:45] David: “When I write a book, I want you to walk away with innate value from that book.” Even if someone doesn’t make a sale, he wants there to be inherent value in that book so that his brand is associated with their understanding of that concept. [22:15] Bob brings the point back around: “So you’re building this case to deal with the naysayers. What you’re saying is that you’re doing that work so that other people tell them and convince them as well.”
[25:30] Ken emphasizes the barrier that David’s business has to pull down- it’s large and difficult to do.
[27:13] David speaks on the danger of blending in with the crowd: “Don’t be white noise… grab their attention first and build that desire. You NEED to use my agency to grow your business, and here’s why.” [27:55] David suggests creating a spreadsheet of your top 5 or 10 competitors and noting their strengths and their weaknesses, and compete based on those. “You can be brand new and still piggyback on the knowledge that other companies have created.” [29:43] Ken asks: “What are other things you do to de-risk your purchases and prove to customers that you are legit?” [29:46] David: “I use math, #1. You can’t argue logic.”
[31:25] Brad asks: How do you simplify for those who aren’t particularly math-savvy?
[34:29] Brad adds that David brings a lot of authority to the table when it comes to verbiage surrounding mortgage rates and loan lingo- for a lot of people these terms and this world is scary and unpredictable, but David has a way of bringing out those fears and speaking directly to them.
[35:10] David: “We’re all trying to move up, to elevate ourselves in society. So if you know that someone can provide that for you, and you trust them.”
[35:31] Brad speaks on the power of getting referrals and the reliability of leads that come through referrals. “How do you get those stories for your case studies?” [36:02] David: “Typically it’s hard to get people to post anything- much less something positive.” Getting people in the moment to give their honest feedback after they’ve had a good experience.”
[38:05} David: “So if you’re an agency, go out and get your top 5-10 objections. And then get testimonials that answer those questions.”
[38:15] Brad asks: “Why do you think humans are drawn to negativity and skepticism?” 38:40 David: “I’m not sure why… and I don't like it. But it’s never going to change. And so I use that.” [39:10] Bob recalls a study that he read about, that negative information stick to the human brain instantly, whereas positive information takes about 20 seconds to fall away. This is essentially survival, fight or flight in our psyche.
[40:26] Bob: “ When I see something positive and I like it, I know it’s not going to stick in my brain. So I try to reread it. And meditate on it and sit with it so that it does stick and overcome the negative things that automatically stay.” [40:55] Ken: “Just being different is important too, right?” Many websites are using positive reviews to convince people to buy, so putting a spin on it (negative headline followed by how the biz answers that pain point) is different and pattern-interrupting. [42:03] Ken adds that also just being genuine makes a huge difference. “...there’s obviously skepticism in every single sale. And so saying it and calling attention to it actually makes it more believable.” [44:15] Brad and Bob discuss using negativity that is inevitable in your business to your advantage. When most people see nothing but good reviews with no negative, the human discernment kicks in and skepticism takes over, because it doesn’t seem real. [45:00] David circles back around to authority and proof. “I literally just think about who the person is that I want to hand me money. And what can I do to make it SO obvious.”
[47:00] Ken: “So the prerequisite for that is knowing your customer persona, avatar, etc with great detail… Often agencies are the worst at that, because there’s the mindset that ‘Everyone is my client!’ which makes it hard to speak to that one person with specificity about their pains and also do what you’re saying… shoot for the worst-case scenario person.” [47:42] David: “one of the emails that I came up with that can help any agency, any biz. The subject line is ‘Your top 3 Questions answered about____ (today only)’ that just offers answers to questions they may have in a future newsletter.”
[50:50] Ken recounts a story in Jordan Belfort’s book- objections were listed en masse and they all boiled down to a small list of basic objections. [51:57] David: “You can even write a whole article about those- speaking to those pain points directly.” [52:55] Bob asks: “When you are outsourcing, do you look for specialists or generalists?” [53:03] David says mostly specialists, but sometimes specific skills are required. But specialists are preferred, someone who “nerds out” on what they do. [54:02] Bob asks for advice for agency owners. [54:28] David says he wrestles with real experience within agencies, he wrestles with getting results, getting paid on spend (instead of results).
[56:58] Ken speaks on the validity of these concerns. [58: 57] Brad: “The old agency way is that we make money on media and we give away the creative for costs that are almost free now.” [1:02:33] Ken speaks on the flaws in a straight ad-spend model. “At the end of the day you do have to figure out how does the value that I contribute scale in a nice proportion to the value that you’re creating inside of the company you’re working for? I do think there are some flaws in a straight ad spend model.” [1:04:35] Ken speaks on a cool takeaway: “You’ve done the thing for yourself, you are the master. And you can do it for other people. A lot of the time agencies don’t focus on doing the things for their own business that you’re offering to do for other clients.” [1:05:20] Bob: “I think that’s a good marker for choosing an agency- are they doing for themselves what they’ve promised you they’ll do?” | |||
| 16 Dec 2021 | Ep 96: Inflation-proof your business | 00:45:14 | |
Summary: On today’s episode we talk about inflation and how to prepare your business for it. With the new year right around the corner, it’s important to take time to consider what inflation will look like next year, and what modifications you need to make to combat it. It’s important to check on your profit margin and see what investment options are available that could help your cash’s value keep up with the inflation rate. Please know, we are not financial advisors, so please contact your real financial advisor to go over some options that could help your business with inflation. As a business leader, your mindset matters. Although it’s tempting and easy to slip into a lack mentality, try to find the silver lining and stay hopeful. With some preparation, inflation doesn’t have to be as scary as it sounds.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Ken opens this week’s episode with a chat about the upcoming holiday season and what gets the guys in the Christmas spirit. [4:09] Bob begins the conversation about this episode’s topic, inflation. “I think it's a good time of year to start talking about 2022 and inflation in your business and your agency etc. And how do you prepare yourself for inflation?” [4:39] Ken discusses a few shocking third party stats concerning Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales. [6:36] Bob talks about the impact that Facebook and OS changes have had on the decrease in impulse purchases. [9:19] Brad asks, “how do we hedge against inflation and how do we do things to prepare now, before you get to the point where we're all feeling it.” [10:31] Brad talks about how he’s looking at the cash he has since cash is what’s being deflated. [12:22] Ken mentions some real-life examples that portray the crazy increase of inflation over the last 3 years. “I have a Christmas tree that I bought from Costco in 2018. Yeah. It's $200 More at Costco today.” [14:54] Ken talks about why he believes it’s important to be shooting for over 30% profit. “If you're not ahead of it, it will creep up on you, you'll look back on it.” [17:49] Bob discusses how, “Salaries don't always keep up with inflation in every industry. And they should, to a certain degree.” [18:35] Bob talks about some practical things business owners can do to prepare, including the importance of paying close attention to your productivity. [19:23] Ken adds that it’s vital to ensure that all costs are efficient. [22:36] Bob notes that focusing on cash flow can also help prepare your business for inflation. [23:00] Ken talks about how it is crucial to decrease costs and increase income. He also says that “cash is not king, but cash flow is king.” [28:51] Bob adds that automation wherever possible can help reduce costs. [30:13] Brad talks about the importance of being proactive when it comes to inflation. “You're not reactive, but you're proactive.” [31:53] Bob says that debt is often the downfall of businesses, so if you have debt, it’s important to address that. [33:07] Ken mentions that taking on risk by investing in a “safe investment” will make more money than just holding onto the cash. [34:42] Brad advises the listeners to talk to your financial advisor to come up with a plan that will work best for your business. [36:36] Bob talks about evaluating and adjusting your rates. “It's probably easier to do it incrementally, a little bit at a time, like once a year for the next three or four years.” [38:17] Ken reveals some of his hacks for renewals. [40:36] Bob says that an abundance mindset is a game changer. “don't get into a lack mentality that says, there's only so many pieces of the pie, and if I don't get mine, then I'm not gonna have it.” [42:08] Ken talks about the silver lining in inflation. “the silver lining in this is like, there is 30% more cash out there.it's being spent and wants to be spent and all that kind of stuff. The one upside of it is there's not less cash, there's more.” [44:11] Brad concludes this episode by saying, “help your clients when they struggle through things like this. That builds a long lasting relationship.” | |||
| 30 Mar 2022 | Ep 104: How do you invest to combat inflation? | 00:51:32 | |
Subtitle: As we all are aware, the environment of today’s economy is constantly changing and inflation is a real challenge. Unfortunately, for a business the solution is not as simple as “raise prices”. Because of this, today, we break down how we combat inflation in a special investing episode. DISCLAIMER, we’re not investment advisors, these simply are our opinions. We talk about investing in crypto and real estate, leveraged trades, cutting costs, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: On today’s special episode, we dive deep into the world of cryptocurrencies and investing to break down our strategies for hedging inflation. Please keep in mind, we are not financial, business, or investment advisors, so do your own research and talk to your advisors. One of the first things we do to shield ourselves from inflation is to cut unneeded costs within our businesses. It’s important to analyze the efficiency and practicality of every tool in order to eliminate the unnecessary ones. As time goes on, chances are, you’ll have to raise your prices to keep up with inflation. Proactively changing prices can help you hedge against inflation. Investing is also key. Whether it’s real estate, gold, stocks, or cryptocurrencies, any wise investment can help you avoid inflation. While cryptocurrencies can yield big rewards, they do so at a high risk.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:44] Ken opens this week’s episode by telling the listeners that unfortunately, Bob won’t be on this week’s episode because he’s preparing for a TED talk. [2:02] Ken tells the listeners that Bob’s TED talk is called, “from ambiguous loss to tragic optimism, journeying together through collective grief.” [2:50] Brad says that in the next episode, they’ll have Bob unpack his TED talk and dive deep on it. [3:11] Ken informs the listeners that, “this is not investment advice. This is not business advice. This is our opinion.” [4:45] Ken asks Brad, “how do you make the most of the money that you have? And what are you doing these days?” [7:01] Brad talks about how his childhood influenced his knowledge of investing and how “a lot of my investment knowledge comes from just trying things and learning.” [12:01] Ken asks Brad to walk through a few of the asset classes. [12:10] Ken also asks Brad how he thinks the environment today impacts crypto and equities. “with all that's going on, in the, in the environment, in the general, macro, economic, global environment, so you've got the Russian invasion in Ukraine? how is that impacting what we're doing?” [12:55] Brad talks about what he’s doing in his business, and personally, to hedge inflation. “I'm looking at anything that we can cut out of our budget personally and for my big business, anything that's extra” [15:37] Ken discusses what he and his team are doing to shield themselves from inflation. “we're increasing prices… But also cutting things out.” [20:09] Brad breaks down one of the most important investing principles. “when other people are fearful, that's when you buy… do not buy when the media is talking about a stock or a company… you will have to buy when everything's wrecked.” [25:23] Brad discusses the importance of understanding your investing strategy and not making emotional decisions when investing. “emotions are tied to money. And you have to become, when you're investing, you really have to have a plan. Use data and your experience to make decisions. And you have to follow those decisions.” [26:33] Ken asks Brad if, “There are any other coins that you're invested in that you think are stable and that are smart investments?” [29:23] Ken explains that most coins are technologies. [29:33] Brad explains the difference between most cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin. [30:28] Brad breaks down his crypto investment makeup and explains why he invested the way he did. [36:20] Brad dives deep on crypto and leveraging trades. [39:07] Ken asks Brad, “what about physical assets, specifically, real estate?” [41:51] Ken discusses his belief that agencies should be shooting to make 30% profit and how that could help combat inflation. [43:40] Brad talks about the importance of having a mindset that understands, “you live in a world where prices are always going to be much higher.” [47:24] Brad discusses his most important takeaways regarding inflation and investing. [50:34] Ken closes this week’s episode. “Hopefully, this is helpful. Again, it's not investment advice. And next time, we'll have Bob back here and we'll actually get into his TED talk.” | |||
| 12 Aug 2020 | Ep 33: Why do People Hate Working for Agencies? With guest Taylor Watt | 00:52:09 | |
Summary: Today’s episode we’re diving into the various experiences of Agency culture with guest Taylor Watt, Marketing Manager at Metacake. After changing lanes from teaching to advertising, she began working for a large agency with a long history and big name. The experience wasn’t pleasant, to say the least, and after a tumultuous learning curve she found her place at Metacake. Today we’re talking about Taylor’s experience of working for two totally different companies doing somewhat similar work, the company culture has impacted her performance and life in general.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Taylor Watt is the Marketing Manager at Metacake, running marketing both strategically for clients as well as Metacake’s internal marketing. She has her hands in every Metacake project- from content creation to strategy for Metacake’s YouTube channel. She is passionate, kind, funny, and incredible at her job, truly invaluable to the Metacake team- she also has a really cute dog and makes a mean stack of pancakes.
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:15] The Guys introduce Taylor Watt, Marketing Manager at Metacake. [3:33] Taylor: “I grew up in Nashville, I went to a little Christian college called Lee University… My roommate was in advertising and I was always so envious that her work seemed exciting and more passionate… so I made the switch last minute and spent a little extra time at Lee and got my advertising degree.”
[5:28] Bob asks: “At the big agency, what was the expectation that was going on?” [5:41] Taylor responds: In college, the expectation in advertising is that you’ll get a great job at a big agency, work hard and make big money. Fast paced, working with lots of clients, trendy office setting… those expectations were set and fulfilled by the agency life. [6:30] Brad asks: “What was the first sign that made you say ‘Hey I’m not going to like this?’” [6:37] Taylor: “Well I didin’t really know what to expect, this is the first big girl job that I had, but you’d think that an agency that had been running for decades, that there would be some sort of formal training. There is no formal training.”
[7:45] Brad: “What would happen if you just told them you had to leave? What if you had kids, were they flexible with that?” [7:57] Taylor: “The people with kids would just leave, but I think it’s like if you’re young and single, it’s kind of expected that you’ll stay. I’m very submissive by nature, so I would just keep my head down.” [8:20] Taylor that she had no trouble with trying hard, with working hard. The company didn’t provide laptops, so working late at home wasn’t an option. They offered laptops to check out but the technology was old, no cloud saving or easy access. This made the late night mandatory. [10:00] Brad talks about it’s common for old agencies that have been around for a while to still be doing things the same way they’ve always done them. There is a culture that this is the way things are and they’re not going to change, are not possible to change, because this is the way it’s been for decades. [11:15] Brad asks: “Do you feel like your coworkers had the same experiences?” [11:30] Taylor: “Yes I think everyone else had the same experience and concerns… there were five of us all about the same experience level… I think everybody had the mindset that you just had to prove yourself and eventually work your way up.”
[12:15] Ken: Talks about how working hard and “paying your dues” isn’t necessarily a bad thing- there is a certain amount of experience necessary to be totally trusted. The process of going through fire is an experience and it’s good for you! But poor leadership through that process is what’s messed up and is more dysfunctional than it is intentionally difficult at certain stages. [13:20] Taylor speaks about how a lack of kindness and respect breeds an environment of fear, and that’s not a healthy place for anybody to be. [16:00] Brad discusses his experience as a single owner of his business. It’s challenging to not let the stress and fear of everything falling apart get to you and create more trouble than is necessary. He shares that he once had a boss tell him “Brad, it’s just advertising,” and that has stuck with him through times of stress and steep learning curves. [18:33] Taylor talks about one pitfall at the big agency she worked for- “It was so big and the team is so big and there were no systems and processes.” When things went wrong she was very hard on herself but in reality she was sort of set up for failure and lack of guidance.
[22:30] Brad asks “If you need to take correction from a boss, what is the best way to correct without diminishing your confidence and spirit?”
[37:21] Taylor speaks on receiving criticism or feedback- she always goes to the compliment sandwich. Start with the way they are doing something well, then give the criticism with suggestions on how to improve, and follow up with another soft compliment. That way the employee doesn’t feel attacked or discouraged, but lifted up and respected.
[39:25] Brad: “Is that because you know his heart and you know that no matter what he does, he’s for you?”
[40:38] Bob speaks on how our work does not define us as human beings. This mindset and belief about life creates subtle difference in the way that we interact with each other, and the results of this environment are felt immediately [42:00] The Guys talk about how the biggest pitfall for many agencies is the breakdown in the team relationship- in doing the work, it can be easy to forget the human element, which results in an environment of fear and high pressure with little reward. | |||
| 20 Jan 2023 | Ep 123: How to write a book | 00:47:53 | |
Subtitle: How to write a book. So many want to, so few do. Though it might seem lofty, unrealistic, or daunting, you CAN write a book. Everyone in our world has a different experience and perspective and something unique to say; the challenge is putting it into book form. In the last episode, we dove into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul, breaking down the solution to media trauma and collective anxiety. In today’s episode, we continue our three part discussion of Bob’s book, but we focus more on the behind the scenes of how to write a book as well as the processes and some practical tips. We highly encourage you to check out Bob and Jenny’s book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.
Summary: In this episode, we continue to discuss Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul. In our last episode, we talked about how to heal and be part of the solution to the collective anxiety and media trauma we as a society have endured and continue to bear. If you haven’t yet, please go check out the previous two episodes to get the full scoop of our three part series breaking down Bob and Jenny’s book. This episode is different from the past two because instead of breaking down the content of Bob’s book, instead, we dive into the processes involved in writing a book. Bob talks about his motivation behind writing this book and his previous three as well as the role writing has played in his business and life. He also talks about his process behind picking a topic, doing research on it, and deciding if it is something the public is interested in. Bob discusses the opportunities he’s had because of his book as well as his top tips and advice for anyone thinking about writing a book. He also talks about the importance of writing everyday, finding your unique perspective, and making your book authentically you. If you enjoyed today’s episode and feel curious about media trauma and how to heal, don’t forget to purchase Bob Hutchins’ and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens this episode with a chat about old tv shows, inflation, and how the [6:34] Brad says, “the thought of writing a book is very daunting to me. So I would love to break down some myths of writing a book… I'd like to get to the heart of like, your motivation for book writing,” [7:31] Bob talks about his love of writing and how he’s built his business and marketing on content and how those things helped him become familiar with and comfortable with the idea of writing. [9:49] Bob discusses the importance of identifying your reasoning behind why you want to write. “Depending on what your reasoning for writing is, also should drive how it's done.” [12:10] Bob talks about his motivation for writing this book and his overall motivation to write. “The motivation was certainly thought leadership. And so that's a lot of my drive is thinking deeply about things and having a voice in the environments that I found that I find myself in my career.” [13:05] Ken asks Bob, “what was your process like in just deciding your topics?” [14:09] Bob says that there isn’t just one way to write a book and that one of the most important things is to just write something everyday. He also talks about the way he identifies if his topic is interesting to the outside world and would make a good book. [17:53] Brad asks Bob, “How do you figure out if your book is unique? What’s the process?” [18:38] Bob talks about the importance of research, outlining ideas, and identifying the target demographic. [21:22] Brad asks Bob, “what kind of things does your book allow you to do that you maybe wouldn't have been able to do?” [23:37] Ken talks about how in any type of business and marketing, “you have to have a formula for success.” [29:02] Ken mentions that one of the values of writing quality content is that it can be used to write a book. He also talks about his secret to writing effective articles and blog posts. [34:40] Bob breaks down the most important thing to remember when writing a book. “The most important number one most important thing is make sure it's authentically yours.” [36:11] Brad asks Bob what the cost would be to write a book. [37:13] Bob says that the price depends on what you’re looking for but it could be between a few thousand dollars to twenty thousand. [39:49] Ken asks Bob if he writes the title first or last and if he recommends finding a publisher or not. [47:04] Bob closes today’s episode by telling the listeners that they can find his book on Amazon. “It's called “Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma, and a Path toward Recovery. You can just Google my name or Jenny black, my co author or just Our Digital Soul.”
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| 27 Jan 2021 | Ep 57: The Secret to Supercharging Your Business (and Life) | 01:04:07 | |
Summary: In today’s episode we break down the importance of mental, physical, and spiritual health. We share our experience and secrets in training and putting your health FIRST. We show you why training like a pro athlete will be the key to your success. We also give practical tips on improving physical health, and offer advice for anyone seeking holistic health in their lives. How does diet really impact the way you run your business? How can you find time to work out without feeling guilty for taking time away from work? Is it possible to remove the reactivity of your mind when it comes to stressful decision-making in your business?
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
Resources
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] The Guys catch up, Bob asks Ken about how his fast is going and they segue into today’s topic: How your body impacts the health of your business. [3:45] Bob mentions a previous episode where they talked about the importance of training for professional athletes and how that is also vital to success as a business owner. [4:15] Ken has always been interested in fitness and being healthy. In adult life the challenges have come with parenthood- getting enough rest, adapting your schedule to the new environment and challenges. [6:06] Ken continues, saying that finding time during the day to work out without feeling guilt or shame was very challenging. But ultimately, health is part of his job and a necessity. [8:50] Brad shares his journey through physical and mental health. He’s had a lot of inconsistencies with his workout routines and has felt it, but recently found some activities that he enjoys. [11:43] Ken talks about the friction between the social isolation of Covid and the fear and lack of caring that many of us experience with our diet and health. If you have a routine that you don’t enjoy, find a way to make it enjoyable! Apps like Apple fitness help reduce that friction because you can do workouts from home. [13:35] Bob asks about Brad’s experience with the up and down of working out and being more healthy. [14:10] Brad talks about the hustle culture that he was surrounded by in LA, saying he definitely didn’t take care of himself as well as he should have. Until Covid hit, he’d been working out regularly for around 8-9 years. He talks about the mental clarity and confidence that comes along with being mindful of your health. [16:54] Ken talks about the concept of learning to like or at least tolerate your workout routine. When you don’t feel like doing it, just go through the motions and do it- as you do that, your body will begin to produce those chemicals that help you find motivation again. [17:55] Bob shares a quote that resonates with him- “motion is lotion” meaning that even a small bit of movement helps your brain/body/spirit begin to reach that place of synchronicity. [18:58] Ken talks about finding what works for you and the benefits that come along with it. Your ability to have fun and enjoy life in general goes up. [20:55] Bob says that the periods of consistency with his workout schedule are when he feels his best. In order to stay sharp, relevant, competitive, you have to take care of your mind AND your body.
[23:23] Ken talks about something called the “success gap”, and how you have to have strong reasoning for why you're doing something in order for it to last. So making a monetary commitment is a great way to hold yourself accountable past that success gap period of 4-6 weeks. [24:06] Brad talks about having accountability from people and how he uses that to get motivated and stay motivated. [25:22] Bob suggests attempting to “gamify” exercise and incorporate more competition with yourself into your routine. [26:53] Bob shifts gears to talking about sleep- he recently purchased a Casper mattress (not sponsored) and he says that the importance of a good night’s sleep is so vital to health. He asks Brad and Ken about their sleep woes. [28:20] Ken talks about his journey through learning more about sleep- understanding the level of restoration and healing that takes place during sleep as well as learning that the ingredients for getting a good night’s sleep are very finicky.
[31:22] Ken continues, talking about how modern technology has ruined circadian rhythms. [33:40] Ken talks about the lack of motivation that people can have to work on their sleep- but if you figure out why you’re doing it, why you’re adjusting your life and habits then it can help.
[35:05] Bob also suggests no late-night snacking. While you may think you’re hungry, taking in more food late at night is just waking up your body again to process the fuel that you’ve given it. [36:18] Ken talks about how your body continues doing work as you stop eating food, there are certain processes that can only happen when you’re not eating (autophagy of the cells).
[40:40] Ken changes the topic to the health of your team as well as yours. Being a healthy leader will change your perspective in anxiety-riddled situations in business. He makes it a priority that his team have access to mental, physical, and spiritual health, and asks Bob and Brad what they do to be intentional about this as leaders. [42:23] Bob talks about the toxicity of an unhealthy work environment. It’s where we all spend most of our lives, and it will impact you in ways that you don’t even realize.
[45:20] Ken talks about dealing with people who are consistently negative, and how that can impact and change the behavior of everyone in the room. [47:13] Ken talks about dealing with his team with mind, body, and spirit in mind. Metacake offers a subsidized membership to a gym in the area. They also offer free counseling twice a month from a local pastor. [50:27] Bob talks about the telehealth solutions that have popped up over the last year- they are a great option for having someone to talk to quickly and over the phone. [51:10] Ken says that the mentality of having a physical person in-house helps to inspire others in the group as well. Helps to normalize pursuing mental health.
[53:38] Bob talks about media trauma, saying that it is pervasive and widespread now more than ever. The things that you consume are SO important today more than ever. [54:34] Brad talks about meditation and prayer, telling us that this has been a big focus for him in 2021. [55:11] Brad continues, saying that the fear of being unproductive is pervasive for him but he’s found that in learning to sit with those feelings in silence for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes at a time, the anxiety around that feeling has quieted and been reduced significantly. He has more mental clarity. [57:13] Bob says that focusing on meditation and prayer is so vital to learning to defend your boundaries. He’s read about a theory that goes against the current social norms- self-help trends and grinding mentalities- that instead focuses on finding your footing in life and growing deep in that footing. And when you are able to do that, even for short periods of time, you find yourself being more productive and reacting differently to life.
[59:09] Ken stresses the importance of being in touch with spirituality in some sense- it helps you to keep other parts of your life in balance. [1:00:23] Ken says that often by just pursuing balance in mind, body, and spirit, you will benefit and begin to see things more clearly. There is a sense of peace that comes with that spiritual focus that bleeds into every other part of your life. | |||
| 31 Mar 2021 | Ep 66: Marketing with a Conscience | 01:01:31 | |
Summary: In this week’s episode, we discuss NFTs, the ongoing privacy vs marketing-tech saga, and get deep on the moral obligation of marketers.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is currently the VP of Digital Marketing at 5by5 Agency. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob welcomes us to today’s episode, starting off with Brad’s knowledge about the world of NFTs. [1:53] Brad defines an NFT for us- Non-Fungible Token. “It’s a digital asset that is on a blockchain and it’s yours. If you buy it, it’s yours. And it’s undisputable, yours.”
[2:46] Brad continues, saying that there are many marketplaces to buy. Typically purchasing through a wallet like Coinbase for digital currency is the most popular way. [4:32] Ken mentions that NFTs are becoming more popular because the US dollar and fiat currency is being continually devalued. [6:01] Brad brings the conversation back around to how this devaluing impacts business. During the financial crisis of 2008, the first thing that got cut were marketing budgets. And during the beginning of Covid, the same thing happened. [6:48] Brad continues, talking about how Tesla recently bought $1.5 billion in Bitcoin and officially started accepting Bitcoin as payment in the US. The idea is that as the value of the dollar goes down, Bitcoin is going up. Brad predicts that many more companies than ever will start to report cryptocurrency in their quarterly reports.
[8:15] Bob ties this into the changing definition of customer lifetime value. He talks about the changing currency in recent decades, saying that debit and credit cards have already replaced cash, so moving on to a different currency altogether that is purely digital isn’t such a reach. [10:29] Brad talks about how NFTs and blockchain technology will actually be able to protect original content- the phenomenon of Deep Fake videos will be defunct, because the NFT of that original video will make it obvious when something has been altered. [11:45] Bob talks about the music genome project that started back in the mid-late 90s. It was used by Pandora to deliver customized playlists and content to their users. It radically changed the way that users interact with music, changing the primary method to digital instead of physical copies of albums or records. [12:20] Ken speaks on the impact this has had on Nashville as a music city. Copyright protections were difficult to adhere to, because there was no real way to track those things digitally. But now, with NFTs, that content will be protected. [14:53] Ken continues, “Understanding where to and how to use your company’s assets and make sure that your dollar is worth as much as it can be worth… these are really important things.” Prioritize developing an investment strategy that understands and uses the latest investment technology. [15:42] Brad talks about privacy, saying that people are wanting control back in their lives. These technologies are being developed to give us that personal control- over our businesses as well. [17:18] Ken says this is happening in ecommerce as well. “Some businesses will think whoa, one of my biggest revenue generators is owned by somebody else.” For example, people running Facebook ads having their accounts shut off and have no control whatsoever over getting their account back up and running. [19:28] Bob summarizes the points that are being made- Privacy and Truthfulness or accuracy. These are the commodities going forward, and if you can substitute accuracy for truthfulness then the game is changed. “The only reason we don’t have an AI world where robots run everything is because nobody is totally secure with their privacy issues.”
[21:38] Ken continues, saying that marketers rely on data and if that data becomes privatized, you can no longer prey on people based on their data. [23:39] Bob references an article he read recently: “Apple’s move to block user tracking spawns new digital ad strategies.” [27:30] Brad talks about generational truths and how older people came from a time when the news was true and trusted. Compare that mindset to millennials who have never had a stable source of truth or information- they are highly suspicious of anything being sold to them. [30:51] Ken talks about the runaway effect of opinions online- even reviews are easy to fake. As advertisers, how can you be aware of these things and why is that important? [31:54] Bob says that if these products were bought as NFTs on the block chain, there could be permissions for reviews that you only get if you’ve purchased. So faking reviews can be worked around and protected. [33:40] Ken talks about changing marketing strategies to accommodate for the lack of belief/truth/honesty that customers often feel when they are inundated with messaging. As marketers, it’s going to be increasingly important to lower that volume and increase the quality of the messaging. [34:49] Ken asks, “What is the moral obligation of advertisers in a social platform like Facebook?” He talks about the challenges of invading privacy with information and tracking and the negative impact that can have on mental health overall. [36:30] Bob says that in the future, having social psychologists and more moral/ethicist thinkers in business will be commonplace. He speaks about a psychological phenomenon called the Dark Triad- Machiavellianism, which says that the ends justify the means at all costs, Narcissism, which says that I’m the most important and no one else matters, and Psychopathy, or lack of feelings/emotions/empathy. This Dark Triad creates horrendous results in business and psychology.
[40:32] Bob talks about Qanon. Recently the original Q poster said, “Well, it was a great ride, we made a lot of friends, and let’s move on and be good to each other.” Did these guys even believe the vitriol they were spewing for the last 4 years? Probably not- they knew that creating these viral videos, preying on user’s data and information, their fears, etc would create clicks and generate revenue for them. [42:00] Ken talks about a famous marketer who explained that they don’t care whether someone votes for one party or the other- either way they’ll create Facebook ads to serve both sides where they’re at. In real life, that would be considered two-faced. But in marketing, in business, online- there are no limits. [48:37] Ken talks about the moral obligation of marketers, saying “We use our skill set to do what we do without violating moral standards and character and ethics, and letting the product stand for itself… If the product’s not that good, you’re at least doing the best to put the product on the correct pedestal. And letting it win or lose.”
[50:17] Bob “This is why society doesn't like marketers… we’re one run above a used car salesman…” There is a distinct lack of honesty and ethics in marketing, traditionally. [52:54] Ken talks about the leverage that agencies have over what people think and feel- and marketers are a vital part of our economy. When it comes down to brass tacks, think of the ad dollars that are running through these morally bankrupt concepts and strategies- the percentage of the problem that is attributed directly to advertisers is larger than we’d think. [53:14] Bob stresses the importance of understanding these changes in privacy on a grand scale- the leaders in technology are being questioned and challenged by the US government. This isn’t a small issue that will come and go; it’s something that agency leaders need to take very seriously and educate themselves on. [54:26] Brad asks “What brands do you think are hitting the spot and doing it right? That feel legitimate and aren’t trying to be greedy with their advertising?” [54:44] Bob says Netflix is one example. They are a company that is focused on creating really great content, owning the channel and doing a great job with it. [55:12] Ken talks about companies that aren’t being publicly traded- brands like Tony Robbins who are being genuine and authentic about what they’re selling. [56:03] Bob talks about agencies moving toward becoming production companies instead of purely media companies. The podcast industry and book public publishing, streaming services- telling good stories and creating great experiences through interaction with the content. [58:50] Brad says that he likes companies that don’t actually have to market much. Companies like Tesla don’t have to market much, because the product speaks for itself.
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| 29 Jul 2020 | Ep 31: Are you profitable? (Part 1) | 00:49:23 | |
Summary: Maintaining a steady profit margin is the key to a healthy, stable business. It’s how you survive in downturns, how you invest in innovation, how you market, and more. The classic model in the agency world revolved around tracking billable hours and racing towards commodification at every turn- today we are opening up about creating profit without losing sight of the human component of your business.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:30] The Guys start the episode talking about a passion of Brad’s- motorcycles. The conversion leads to Brad sharing a new toy of his, the new 2020 iPad Pro, with awesome keyboard features that may finally be an ipad that can double as a laptop. [6:29] Bob segues the conversation towards profitability- “Speaking of Brad’s new toys, all the profit that he’s making his agency… we’re going to talk about profitability today.”
[7:08] Ken: “Agency aside, you want to shoot for four times what you pay somebody in revenue… you kind of want to be north of 23% profit margin shooting for 30% net profit margin in your business.”
[9:45] Brad: “I look at my business as one of the many things in my life that is going to generate revenue… I look at my business as a way to make revenue that I can take and invest in other areas that don’t take as much labor to make 10%.” [12:15] Brad continues: “... it’s all about human resources at the end of the day… in the end it’s the human resources that make that [business] happen.”
[16:00] Ken shares about growth in some agencies he’s spoken with- the growth in linear over time, with the same amount of work being done for the same ratio of money.
[18:45] Brad discusses the importance of building value into your company outside of just the clients you work with- clients come and go, one giant client leaving can result in 50% or more of revenue dropping off. How can you maintain that profitability even through this? VALUE. [21:35] Ken: Speaking to the holistic view that Brad talks about- business model isn’t just about that business, truly a holistic part of his whole life plan.
[24:29] Bob: Talks about the struggle of business owners with walking the fine line between people as commodities inside of your business. Often as you scale, employees become more commodities than people. [25:56] Ken rejects that model of ownership- “If your business is based on humans, and those humans are commoditized.... Then as you go up and down, you’re inevitably not going to be able to retain or attract the thing that you actually sell.... Which is the humans.” [27:17] Ken continues: “Our company… I call it a hybrid agency because there’s agency services that we do but ultimately I’m trying to build a brand that has equity and that has multiple products, one being a service that we give, others being other products… I see our business as a distributor of experience and knowledge.”
[32:30] Brad shares advice for any employee out there listening- make sure you are making the company money and providing value for your presence. If you feel that you could leave and be replaced by someone in 2 weeks without a hiccup, you know you haven’t created any real value for your boss or the team. [39:50] Bob speaks about how often, agencies are selling knowledge more than creativity or execution. [41:21] Bob asks: “Is there a model that you guys follow? How do you track profitability? What are the basics that someone listening can understand?”
[44:34] Brad: Anthem does a few estimates, for the client yes but also for the sake of the team. There is a statement of work that is held to the price to allow for scope creep
[47:00] The Guys speak about tracking hours and how it can impact the psychology of employees to constantly track their own productivity. Next episode will cover this topic! | |||
| 06 Apr 2022 | Ep 105: How to give a TED Talk | 00:36:34 | |
Subtitle: Have you ever wondered what goes into preparing for and giving a TED Talk? Being able to give talks on big stages can be a game changer for your agency. On this week’s episode, we dive into Bob’s TED Talk, “From Ambiguous Loss to Tragic Optimism, Journeying Through Our Collective Loss Together”. He breaks down the process of applying, writing, memorizing, and giving a TED Talk on this week’s episode.
Summary: On today’s special episode, Bob gives us an inside perspective on giving a TED Talk. He walks us through all of the steps he went through to apply, and talks about his experiences that inspired his talk. Bob also discusses some of the challenges he faced such as memorization and technological issues while giving his talk. He dives deep into the content of his talk, “From Ambiguous Loss to Tragic Optimism, Journeying Through Our Collective Loss Together” and discusses his positive experience with his TED Talk coach. Keep an ear out for Bob’s inspiring and exciting TED Talk!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:32] Brad opens this week’s episode with a discussion about Bob’s TEDx talk. [2:23] Bob talks about the title of his TEDx Talk and his experience while giving it. “My title was ‘from ambiguous loss to tragic optimism journeying through our collective loss together’.” [6:42] Ken asks, “Can we talk about the mechanics of the TEDx Talk? So you got a coach, what was that like?” [7:57] Bob talks about his great experience with his coach and what attributes he believes make a good coach. “It's less about, like telling you how to do things and more of a support. Someone to be there to, to bounce things off of, and then to guide you along the way.” [12:24] Bob dives into his TEDx Talk and explains what ambiguous loss is. “There's this phrase called ambiguous loss. There's a psychologist named Pauline Bosch, who coined it back in the 70s. It's the concept of, the feelings of stress and anxiety around either having a physical absence with a psychological presence, or having a physical presence with a psychological absence.” [18:30] Bob talks about another concept in his TEDx Talk, tragic optimism. “It's the search for meaning amidst the inevitable tragedies of human existence.” [19:43] Bob discusses tragic optimism in depth and the relationship between ambiguous loss and tragic optimism. He also talks about how the true meaning of life comes from struggles and losses and how there’s no shame in experiencing ambiguous loss. “There's this organic connection between ambiguous loss to tragic optimism. You can't have one without the other. True meaning in life comes from these deep struggles in these hard times.” [25:22] Ken talks about how character is built from struggles. [26:06] Bob discusses the challenging experiences that inspired this TEDx Talk. [28:17] Bob says, “the purpose of my talk was to let people know that they're not alone.” [30:26] Brad asks Bob when his recorded talk will be available to the public. [32:44] Bob talks about the ‘mental castle’ concept for learning and memorization and how he applied it to memorize his talk. [35:20] Bob closes this episode by saying that the guys will let the listeners know when his talk is released. “Hopefully, people got something out of it. And when it releases, we'll let you know. Just keep an eye out for it.” | |||
| 13 Jan 2021 | Ep 55: The end of marketing as we know it… now what? | 00:58:59 | |
Summary: Diversification is a hot topic for us- and for digital marketers especially, the coming years are going to be filled with challenges. Today we talk about our experience with single-platform marketing strategies and share the benefits and drawbacks of focusing on a single channel. We discuss how marketers need to be diversifying away from their laser-focus on platforms like Facebook and Google- and instead, focus on the messaging and VALUE they are adding to the lives of their customers. We discuss our thoughts on what the future holds for digital marketing, and give suggestions for how you can actively work towards a holistic marketing message across all platforms.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
Resources Mentioned:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. He is now the VP of Digital Marketing at 5by5 Agency. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob opens the episode by asking Brad how his back is doing- his bike riding hobby gave him a bit of pain over the weekend. The Guys chat about their own biking accidents- Ken has flown over the handlebars recently! [2:33] Ken updates us on his New Years fast- he did this last year as well. The first few days are rough, but today’s episode has found him feeling good and energized. His fasting is deeply tied to finding mental clarity and inner strength for himself at the beginning of the year- and he talks about his belief that nutrition and exercise are foundational to running his business well. [5:55] Brad chats about the “easter eggs” he’s dropped about investment advice in recent months- Bob and Ken regret not taking his advice when he gave it! [7:05] Ken shares that Brad’s financial wisdom and philosophy has been interesting to learn about over the past year- future episodes will definitely be featuring some of Brad’s expertise. [7:49] Bob recaps the conversation The Guys were having before the start of the show- as agency owners, as business owners, there are some things to be thinking about as the New Year begins. One thing is how to market your expertise- focusing in on the reliance on certain platforms that may or may not be around in the same form in the next 12 months. [9:03] Bob asks Ken: “There are so many agencies that are really really good at Facebook ads… but does that make them a good marketing service for their clients?” [9:54] Ken says that in order to truly diversify, you have to look forward and really consider: “What does it mean for these platforms to either go away or lose their effectiveness in how easy it is to advertise?”
[11:54] Bob shares that he was doing an audience analysis recently- a client had a TON of great engagement on Facebook Livestream, with thousands watching at once. But the accompanying website had only been viewed around 3,000 times. So that client is in danger of losing a LOT of their business and following if Facebook were to suddenly tank.
[15:29] Brad shares his concern for younger marketers who are getting the majority of their experience on one platform, like Facebook. They aren’t learning multi-channel marketing strategy. “If you’re on a single platform and that’s all you do, it can be challenging if that platform in two or three years starts to diminish…. the strategic side of things could get diminished a bit, because people just don’t have that wealth of experience.” [16:23] Ken agrees, saying that a lot of marketers have become more of platform manipulators- it’s easy to get bogged down in the details. But really if an ad isn’t working, the first question should be “Is our message resonating with an audience? A great message with the right audience will resonate no matter what.” He talks about how the process of stepping back from reliance on a single platform is difficult. [18:18] Bob shares a quote from David Ogilvie. “As a practitioner, I know that television is the most potent advertising medium ever devised. And I make most of my living from it. But as a private person, I would gladly pay for the privilege of watching it without commercial interruptions. Morally, I find myself between the rock and the hard place.”
[22:45] Ken shares something he took away from a recent Masterclass he watched. It featured the creators of the “Got Milk” campaign Jeff Gooby and Rich Silverstein, and they shared their philosophy regarding advertising- “Advertising is art serving Capitalism”
[24:26] Bob shares an ad that he watched recently that made him emotional and was done very very well- THIS is the kind of response you want from your viewers. [26:45] Brad talks about how YouTube has begun serving more ads on the videos that he watches- he asks the guys if they pay for the ad-free version. The Guys discuss their likes and dislikes about ads- YouTube creates a need for advertisers to get your attention quickly, so they have to put a lot of effort into their production. [28:38] Bob brings the subject back around to his David Ogilvie quote from earlier- there really is this pressure that you’re working against in advertising- even on paid platforms people get served ads that are frustrating to them, so your quality naturally should improve. [29:57] Bob asks Ken if there will be more grassroots advertising efforts in the future, because of the imperative of diversifying your platforms. [30:40] Ken says that in the future, creativity will be more of a necessity because as we become less reliant on a single platform, that growth requires new ideas and different approaches to past messaging. [32:28] Brad talks about the changes in marketing strategies since extreme targeting abilities within platforms like Facebook became widespread knowledge. [33:54] Ken predicts that moving from digital to traditional principles in the coming years will be more challenging that when the industry moved from traditional to digital. “I think it will revert back to where there are less knobs we can twist, there’s less we can do. And so it’s not as much learning a new platform as it is learning how to advertise again or learning to do business differently.” [35:22] Bob talks about the way that styles and trends come back around, and that pattern applies to the marketing industry as well. “The key to winning there is everything comes back around, but it has a new slightly different twist.” [36:06] Ken discusses the strengths of email and owning it as a marketing strategy- but like everything else it won’t work if you don’t have a good message. [39:00] Brad talks about how advertising on screens in cars is a whole new medium of advertising that will only get stronger and more powerful over time. [40:00] Bob shares that optimization for voice search devices is only going to increase, and optimizing your business for those searches will become a niche. [40:40] Ken talks about how many agencies and businesses aren’t looking into those investments because they are addicted to ROI. “Its been a race to the bottom for a lot of agencies…” in regards to cost. [42:20] Bob asks what would happen if visual advertising went away. We’re entering a world where people take time off of their phones, and so the only way to advertise would be through other voice devices. This is the time for businesses to prepare for a future with only voice search or streaming platforms instead of phones. [43:57] Ken asks- What should businesses do to prepare right now? [44:05] Bob says think outside the duoploy of Facebook and Google- keep developing your skills there but don’t become reliant on it. [44:30] Brad says that direct mail campaigns that are hyper-targeted to specific levels of your funnel is a great way to create “human touch” for your brand and business. [45:37] Ken stresses that breaking your addiction to ROI is at the top of his list. Learning to invest in creativity and being willing to step outside of that box is SO necessary to surviving and thriving as an agency. [48:37] Brad says that while these alternative routes may not be as trackable or measurable, creative marketers will find ways to measure. “When you’re trying to build a brand, they all work in conjunction with each other and eventually you’ll see the results of your efforts.” [52:18] Brad talks about working with startups who have no idea what their lifetime value is- it can be a difficult thing to determine that and move away from ROI as a business owner or brand manager. Getting clients to think more long-term is the difficult part. [54:10] Ken talks about “stepping back” from your process and your message. “I think you see a lot of opportunity once you start playing that game of understanding what message is going to connect with the person and not really worrying about the medium… then the fear of things going away gets diminished a little bit.” [55:19] Brad “A brand is a promise, but a great brand is a promise kept.” If you’re doing ads, the best thing to do is keep that promise. | |||
| 14 Apr 2021 | Ep 68: How do You Maximize during the Good Times? | 00:50:18 | |
Summary: Last week’s episode was all about preparing for the next downturn- today we’re flipping the script. How do you prepare for good times? How do you prepare to bring about good times? And when those good times come how do you MAXIMIZE them and not squander them. As a business leader, complacency and lack of intentionality are a dangerous combination. Don’t lose sight of the discipline you developed during the hard times, because it will help fuel investment and create something of REAL value far into the future!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:48] Bob welcomes us to this week’s episode. Last week’s topic was a bit negative- we talked about what business looks like in a bear market. This week we’re talking about how you can maximize in good times to prepare for the inevitable bad times. [2:47] Ken asks about the trajectory of business over the last year. Are profits back to normal? Over where they were before? Worse overall?
[4:09] Bob’s agency is larger, and even they have stayed steady through Covid. He’s seen medium to bigger sized companies loosening up and coming out of a sense of fear about spending and new initiatives. [5:06] Ken talks about how 2020 was definitely unpredictable, but something changed in 2021. “The challenge is that you need to stay in a lean mindset and also a forward-thinking mindset.” [6:57] Ken offers his thoughts about a post-covid world. Ultimately, the Covid numbers don’t matter in that there is no real way to move back to the “old way” of life. [7:40] Brad thinks that by year’s end we’ll be moving back to having concerts and getting together in larger groups- this stimulation of the economy will provide even more positivity and hope for things to get “back to new normal.” [8:09] Ken speaks about the psychological challenge that lay ahead for marketers in the travel industry (and other industries that have been severely impacted by the pandemic)- those people have been traumatized, we all have. So those marketers have a particularly large challenge in that they have to make people feel safe enough to purchase. [9:36] Brad thinks that the sign that fear is going down will be that the masks appear less and less. Fear is a powerful driver for the economy, but as we stand firmly in the “Post-COVID” reality that fear will dissipate.
[11:09] Brad asks if there is anything that Ken and Bob are doing in 2021 to capitalize on the pick-up that the economy is sure to experience in the coming years. [11:59] Bob provides some historical context, as always. “Anytime that there was either an urgency, a war, pandemic, new technology, societies benefited from that in ways that for those who have eyes to see it can really benefit from it.”
[16:14] Ken talks about the danger of complacency and not having awareness of your actions. Things may be good now, but don’t lose your disciplined mindset that you developed when things weren’t so good. “I think if you can keep your discipline, but also keep your focus and passion on what you're supposed to be doing… utilize the good times as the fuel to invest and make things even better… then you have the opportunity to create something of real value.” [17:11] Brad asks the guys “What are some things that you feel are on the horizon where agencies can position themselves to take advantage of this additional swell of business?” [17:44] Bob repeats a mantra that we talk about often here on Agency Exposed. In business, you’re either the cheapest, the best, or the only. “These are the times- the good and prosperous times- where you can start figuring out how to become the Only… you’ll have the resources, the time, the money, and the technology available at your fingertips to potentially figure that out.” [18:30] Brad says that by the time fall rolls around and the holidays are upon us, we’ll have a much better image of what the economy actually looks like. And even then, we won’t know those final numbers until January or February. This is representative of the lag indicators in our economy. [19:05] We talk about unemployment numbers and how they’re still low, overall. [19:58] Ken talks about innovation, and how it is the most important thing to focus on when things are good. This actually places digital agencies in a great position, because moving forward in the ecommerce space is at the top of that innovation list. [22:37] Bob talks about companies coming to him frustrated with inaccurate attribution due to the stack of software they’re working with. “What you’re going to see is those companies pulling money back and putting it somewhere else… we need to be prepared to say here’s where you can put that money- into telling good stories, into more accurate attribution than other platforms.” [23:16] Brad says that providing a story behind attribution is VITAL when talking to your clients- not just the numbers but how they played out. They need to understand that their ROAS isn’t just about analytics, there’s a lot more to the picture. [24:32] Bob adds to Brad’s point, saying that it’s more of an investment in time and talent into the top and middle of the funnel. [25:47] Ken asks, “What would you guys invest in inside of your business, if things were really really good right now?” [26:32] Brad says sales and developing strong leads via personal connections and relationships. [28:46] Ken talks about how trauma puts you in a protective stance. “I focus so much mental energy into trying to condition myself to be able to make quick decisions despite things that have happened.” [29:18] Brad makes the analogy that surviving the past year for some has felt akin to war. We’ve been holed up in our bunker and don’t even know that the shellings have stopped and we are almost safe to go out and grow and invest again. He still feels like it’s not quite safe. [31:01] Bob “I would invest in R&D on the measurement and CRO side. That continues to be the main thing that people struggle with.” He knows there will be a gap in knowledge for a lot of businesses, because they’re so used to automation and Facebook-style marketing efforts. And that’s where we as agency leaders come in and fill in that gap. [33:16] Ken says that diversifying revenue streams is the most important thing for him. If you’re not actively doing it, at least do the R&D to know where you may diversify. [35:12] Bob says that systematizing your processes is another great place to invest. Because turnover is one of the first issues that happens for many businesses during hard times, having systems in place to quickly train new people or new roles can make a world of difference. [36:18] Ken talks about systematizing as a way of leveraging scale in your business. You can scale people if you know how to slot them into those processes. [42:49] Brad talks about project management tools like Asana that allow you to create video snippets that help introduce new hires more easily. This is much more palatable for people to take in than a stack of papers. [47:49] Brad continues, saying that stored value of a company is creating an engine that is run by processes that can be filled by people in an efficient way. Having distinct processes inside of your business means that there is inherent value in what it offers, not just a strong relationship with one person in your organization. | |||
| 19 Aug 2020 | Ep 34: How do you create a great company culture? With guest Taylor Watt | 00:52:09 | |
Summary: Last episode we got to hear our guest, Taylor Watt, discuss her experiences working for various agencies. They have ranged from horrible to great. Today we’re talking about what we can practically do (and what we have done) to create a genuinely great company culture. Different personality types and management styles have to be taken into account along the way. Our guest Taylor Watt shares practical tips from firsthand experience that have created a more balanced work/life relationship for her. We’re discussing how personality impacts performance under pressure, how to strengthen working relationships amidst a changing industry landscape, and what it means to have “work hours” and “non-work hours” when everyone is working from home. Keeping spirits and motivations high when everyone is separated is a tricky balancing act- so today we’re bringing some practical advice for agency and business owners alike.
Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Taylor Watt is a Marketing Manager at Metacake, running marketing both strategically for clients as well as Metacake’s internal marketing. She has her hands in many other Metacake projects as well- from writing blogs to content creation to strategy for Metacake’s YouTube channel. She is passionate, kind, funny, and incredible at her job, truly invaluable to the Metacake team- she also has a really cute dog and makes a mean stack of pancakes.
Resources:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:04] Bob gives a brief recap of last week’s episode. “We talked about some of the negative experiences that Taylor had in a larger agency, and then we talked about changing those, and what the culture is that even exists in our own agencies and backgrounds. Today we want to talk about some real practical steps and examples and ways to move forward in a more healthy way.” [1:35] Brad shares that over the last five years or so, he’s been on a journey to creating more health internally within his business. He often feels like if he misses 15 minutes of productivity during the day, he has to make up for it later with time away from family. It’s a big struggle for him as a solo agency owner.
[3:34] Ken adds that its really a question of “What is the best strategy to creating a successful business?” Which is turns out actually means not burning people out. [4:30] Bob asks Taylor for some practical or helpful advice that other agency owners who may be listening could employ. [5:00] Taylor mentions our last episode and again stresses the importance of processes. “Systems are important, accountability. Making sure that every employee with you is set up for success, because if you do your due diligence there, after that, it’s all on them, whether they’re successful or not.”
[6:05] Bob speaks about emotional intelligence and how important it is to know your employee’s personality type, as your feedback may be really encouraging to some but inhibit productivity in others. [7:17] Ken speaks on Metacake’s take on personality types. “We all have personality tests or profiles for everybody. That’s been a fun team activity, but it’s been really helpful.”
[10:43] Taylor suggest creating a sort of questionnaire for new employees to fill out- something that asks them about their ideal work environment, their ideal boss, where their motivation comes from. [12:27] Brad talks about how as agency owner, it can be difficult to give feedback sometimes because things do come off harsh. He speaks on the difficulty he has with presenting criticism in a softer light, and stresses the importance of measuring your words as an agency owner, as those words can carry a lot more weight than you realize.
[15:00] Taylor shares a book she’s read this year, “Click Happy” by Molly Pittman. “At one point she said, especially in this industry, people value and prioritize people that work overly hard… it’s a quick road to burnout and actually a really unintelligent way to go about your business or your work.”
[18:00] Ken speaks on managing that culture at Metacake. While you want to encourage employees who do go above and beyond, ultimately creating an environment where employees can have a reasonable expectation of personal life versus business life is the key.
[20:00] Bob relates this concept to working from home during the Covid-19 pandemic. He asks Taylor how that’s worked for her. [25:07] Taylor says that some people on the team have done well and thrived, while others have really struggled. Personally, she is a people person so it’s been a struggle to maintain energy levels and motivation while working solo.
[31:00] Brad shares that one benefit to working for home for him, although it was struggle to get there, was realizing that by taking a half hour or so to do something other than work, to do something with his hands that maybe was more creatively challenging, helped him show up for meetings and work in a more centered way later on.
[32:45] Ken shares his experience with this topic and plans that Metacake has for their future work.
[33:45] Brad speaks about the importance of systems and being able to trust that ALL of your employees have what they need to follow those systems and do a great job while having the freedom to live their lives as well. [35:05] Ken stresses the importance of this as well, because your business needs to be a system. “It can’t just be a freeform thing... Because it’s not scalable that way… it’s not predictable and consistent. And so how do you create what is seemingly very flexible, but actually very systematic.” [35:37] Brad: “Business runs by processes and people run the processes.” [36:45] Ken shares that managing the mental health side of people’s lives is also important, so Metacake provides an every-other-week one-on-one meeting with both owners to connect and share their working experiences. Creating that human connection on an individual basis is so important to building trust and get real feedback. [40:06] Ken speaks on the challenges of working with a team who is mostly younger and spread apart and away from their families. “How can we create genuine environments where people actually enjoy their work?”
[42:30] Taylor shares how Metacake has broken days up into working remote as a group and getting lunch at new places together. A fun activity like Top Golf during the day followed by lunch and remotely working- also about a year into her job a manager encouraged her to get her nails done and gave her a gift card.
[49:00] Taylor continues- Metacake as a primary team member in charge of planning these sorts of activities, and gets team input as she plans so that everyone is sure to have a good time. Making sure that everybody is interested and engaged together is key! | |||
| 03 Mar 2021 | Ep 62: Are You the Same as Everyone Else? | 00:54:18 | |
Summary: In this week’s episode, we’re diving into what it looks like to coach new clients through differentiating themselves. We explain our philosophies on creating a brand that’s unique enough to sell. We discuss questions such as: As agencies, how can we help our clients clarify their brand? If a client doesn’t know their “why,” what’s the next step? How can you help clients clarify their true purpose for their business? How can you guide potential clients through the brand building process while also establishing a valuable partnership? And how can you do all this for yourself as a business?
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [4:20] Bob asks “What do you do when a client comes to you asking for help developing their brand—without any data to help you accomplish this.” [5:05] Brad says that some clients know their brand and some don’t. Newer brands may recognize that they have a great product, but rushing to get that product sold can undercut the value there. There is a deep push to compete with existing brands and industry giants, but there is also a deep need to define your brand before competing. [6:38] Brad recalls a phrase from an earlier episode—as a business, you’re either the Cheapest, the Best, or the Only. And he’s found that most of his clients aren’t the Only. [7:24] Brad asks how The Guys identify the best strategy for a client like this. [9:30] Ken talks about how companies used to be able to make it without a unique selling proposition- but competition creates change in every industry so quickly these days and you HAVE to take the time to develop that selling proposition. [10:30] Bob talks about how in the beginning of Covid, there were many companies who dug into their “why” and were able to change their selling proposition to suit customer’s needs more closely. [11:30] Brad circles back around to guiding clients without this defined purpose and selling proposition. He says that most companies’ “why” is interwoven into their culture, and very much has to be a top-down concept.
[15:01] Bob talks about breaking down a client’s story into a hero-arc. Who’s the hero, who’s the protagonist, what is the problem you’re trying to solve? It pays to break down your brand’s story in this way! [16:05] Brad shares about a 3-day workshop that he hosts to help businesses define their brand. Usually there is a moment where he realizes that a team doesn't have the same “why” individually. But that is so vital! Get everyone on the same page and make sure that your client knows the value in this process. [17:50] Ken talks about how clients often ask agencies to do things that only the client can do. Only the client can define their brand, only the client can dig into the reason they exist and figure out what drives them. Agencies cannot define this for you! [19:40] Ken shares a questionnaire that Metacake gives prospective clients. It’s a brand readiness worksheet that helps identify where a brand truly is at any given moment. It helps to dig into their story, unique selling points, why they exist, and ultimately provides deep clarity for the entire team.
[24:19] Brad and his team dig deep into the pain points of customers. For example, you may think you sell skincare but in reality you’re helping a client fill different emotional needs that they have. [24:45] Ken talks about how many clients get overwhelmed by this deeper meaning behind their business—it can feel silly and even embarrassing. Your job as an agency owner is to build a business case for this work. [27:31] Bob talks about the psychology change in selling to one channel versus a thousand channels. When people have a ton of options, digging deeper becomes more and more vital to selling your product. [28:55] Brad talks about brand equity and clients who want to build their brand equity. But this takes time and money! [29:29] Bob defines brand equity in 2021. Brand equity means your brand has been embedded into the culture of society, giving examples of brands like Coke and Kleenex. [30:56] Bob moves on to how to work with clients once they agree that they want to dig deep and do that work. [31:30] Brad shares a story about a client that they worked with; this client didn’t have any unique selling propositions but were committed to digging in and figuring out their brand. Eventually they launched a sale, and the product didn’t do well. The client came back and said that they really didn’t have a leg to stand on when it came to comparison against other products. Brad could see the writing on the wall at the beginning of the project but still gave it his best, and it didn't work. [37:20] Ken talks about a client that Metacake works with called Groove Life. They sell silicone rings with an incredible brand proposition and story. They have a large number of competitors, and their rings really aren’t THAT much of a different quality than others that you can find on Amazon. But what makes them different is the brand story. [37:39] Brad “Your brand is a promise, and if you want to create that promise you better make sure that when they get the product, that promise is realized.” [38:04] Ken says the best promise wins the sale, not necessarily the best product. [40:28] Bob talks about how Elon Musk has an incredible ability to normalize those unique selling propositions. It’s not only about the product; it’s also about the human experience. [42:45] Bob says that there are 4 questions they ask at Five by Five agency when helping a client to unpack their brand. As these questions are discussed, the client will identify the nuances of what makes them different from everyone else.
[44:23] Brad talks about asking the right questions of his clients and allowing their frustrations out. The answers have to be gleaned from their discussions, and as you get to know them and their pain points, clarity is the inevitable result. [46:40] Brad suggests an interactive meeting when you first meet a client, where you can engage them in the process of identifying these parts of their brand. [48:00] Bob says that after you’ve met with clients and gone through the process of bringing out that information (identifying their brand messaging and unique selling points), it’s fairly straightforward for your agency team to go into those notes and see with relative clarity who that brand is and what makes them unique from their competitors. When you then bring that information back to your clients, they are in awe of how well you know them, and the relationship becomes one based on trust and deep respect. You become part of their tribe instead of just an agency that’s working with them. [52:41] Ken talks about those business owners who say they’re only in business to make money. And while many may say this, most of those businesses are actually running on something much deeper—they just need help identifying it. | |||
| 18 Aug 2021 | Ep 85: How to break into new verticals | 00:40:07 | |
Summary: Today we discuss how to break into new verticals. We also discuss whether you should break into new verticals. It can be challenging to close in on a client in a different industry when you have minimal experience there. On this week’s episode, we offer a few tips to help you jumpstart your journey through new verticals. It’s all about becoming a master translator. Even if you don’t have extensive experience or training in a certain industry, if you can sell your exclusive talent and how you applied it to a similar situation, you can make it in almost any industry.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:33] Bob opens today’s episode with a quick chat about the toasty weather in Tennessee. [1:29] Brad begins today’s discussion about how to break into new verticals. “How do you get potential clients to trust that you understand their industry? And you understand their issues, and you've solved issues in the past similar to theirs?” [3:30] Brad talks about the importance of understanding the core parts of the industry you’re pioneering. [4:50] Bob discusses two key components to help convince a client that you’re the right fit for their industry. “always be honest” “start speaking their language… and then attach it to your past experience.” [7:29] Ken talks about how to sell your unique skills and experience to a potential client in another vertical. [11:42] Bob mentions how invaluable having a talented salesperson can be. He also discusses presentation and isolating what is important to your client. [16:54] Bob talks about a unique method he uses to persuade a client and eliminate the competition. “What I really try to convince the client is that you're getting access to a huge knowledge warehouse. What you get with us is you get this huge knowledge warehouse of experience that we've worked with all these other industries, that we're going to be able to apply that knowledge and that learning to your situation” [18:21] Ken discusses the role that personality plays when talking to a client in another vertical. [21:13] Bob talks about the vital role communication and experience play when it comes to expanding into new verticals. [23:58] Ken asks, “why would someone want to go into another industry or in another vertical?” [26:10] Brad discusses his motivations for entering a new industry. “you mentioned money, obviously, that's a motivator. But for me, a lot of the motivation is learning something new, to be honest with you.” [31:09] Ken talks about the key to starting conversations that will help you break into a new vertical. [37:29] Bob discusses another option for breaking into a new vertical. “don't be afraid to hire somebody that's an expert in that niche.” | |||
| 03 Feb 2021 | Ep 58: You MUST Optimize Your Business Finances | 01:04:56 | |
Summary: In today’s episode we have a special guest- CPA/entrepreneur/real estate investor/genius, Founder and Executive Officer of Integrated Financial Group, Chris Picciurro. Chris shares with us 3 main principles that will help you take control of your business finances. We ask Chris some financial questions specific to service businesses, and try to get just a bit better at managing our finances in intelligent ways. We talk financial stability, money optimization, and taxes (cringe!). This episode is meant for grownups who want to win at business.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob opens the show, introducing our guest for the day. [1:29] Brad introduces today’s guest Chris Picciurro of Integrated Financial Group. He’s a 20-year CPA who hails from Detroit and has worked with Brad for the last 5 years with accounting help at Anthem. [3:27] Brad asks Chris about what he sees on the financial horizon for 2021. [3:58] Chris talks about tax season and the 3 main principles that he follows when maneuvering the complexities of paying taxes.
[5:51] Brad says that he wants the advice we give to be informative for everyone- simplified, pared down basics that someone who’s thinking of starting a new business this year. [6:33] Brad says his objective when dealing with this involuntary business partner is paying them as little as necessary to keep the agreement legal and fair. [7:14] Chris adds that another part of the perks of being in business with the government is that you get to choose your board of directors, cpa, attorney, insurance professional, and more.
[8:08] Chris moves on to principle #2: Your Facts equal your Tax. If you want to change your tax situation, you have to change your fact pattern. Do this on your own, or task it to your board of directors. [8:51] Chris: “Tax Return” should be a verb, not a noun. If it is something that you only think about at the end of the year, the government is a really bad business partner! [9:44] Brad mentions a quote that we talk about a lot here on Agency Exposed “The processes run your business and your people run the processes.”
[12:34] Ken asks Chris for some tips on what business owners can do throughout the year that are simple but help to plan for tax season- outside of hiring an advisor. [13:16] Chris shares principle #3 - Understand the difference between cash flow and tax flow. Cash flow is easy- cash comes in, cash goes out. Tax flow is either tax deduction or taxable income. [15:12] Chris follows a simple formula- diagnose the problem and prescribe a solution. [17:13] Ken shares that agencies are one of the most vulnerable to challenges in cash flow, so differentiating between cash flow and tax flow is a great foundation. Often it can be intimidating to put your savings into an account that you can’t access for a long period of time- you want to invest the money and put it somewhere safe where it can make more money for you, but being able to access that in an emergency is important. [19:06] Chris says that makes sense- after all, cash is king. As a young business owner, start somewhere small. Create a business savings account and grow it over time, use it throughout the year to purchase assets and use for investment. [20:24] Bob asks Chris about the most common mistake he sees small business owners make. [20:48] Chris responds that he most often sees small business owners take advice from their peers instead of their CPA or financial advisor- Not creating a financial team & board of advisors. [22:30] Bob asks if Chris works with marketing agencies- Yes! They work with entrepreneurs and real estate investors, as well as many kinds of agencies. Bob continues, asking the unique challenges that come from service industry businesses as opposed to businesses who offer products. [23:34] Chris responds that tax returns are a commodity. Their business is a membership-based subscription model, as they want to provide deep value for their clients via guidance on strategy, consulting, and planning. If they can’t provide that, they won’t work with a client.
[25:27] Ken asks if there are any things that they do differently for business who are primarily service-oriented. [26:11] Chris says businesses with inventory automatically have huge cash flow challenges. So for them, making sure they have capital and working with their banker is very important.
[27:21] Ken asks about optimizing Research & Development credits available to service-based industries. [27:34] Chris speaks to the CPA perspective of this. If a client comes forward who wants to take advantage of this R&D credit, they will bring in their team to see what your business is doing that truly are moving forward in your industry. You can also have them look to see if the work you’ve done in the past 3 years is something that you can claim. [30:04] Brad talks about how Anthem has been able to take advantage of R&D credit. There is quite a lot of time and paperwork that you have to invest, but once you do that it’s done and you can move forward.
[31:34] Ken says that the R&D credit helps businesses like his to learn to innovate and invest in that innovation. It lowers risk. [34:26] Bob asks Chris what he anticipates changing under our new political administration. [34:50] Chris talks about new tax plans that may be passed under Biden, saying that nothing is likely to happen in 2021. However, he did propose a corporate tax increase up to 28% flat tax.
[39:25] Brad asks about the types of businesses and allocations/ corporations that there are, for those who many be looking to start a business today. [40:23] Chris responds:
[48:28] Chris gives us another piece of advice: Don’t let the tax tail wag the dog- keep doing your business successfully and we’ll work on how to minimize your taxes legally and ethically. | |||
| 01 Oct 2020 | Ep 40: How do you create a client success system? | 00:56:17 | |
Summary: What is the ideal skill set, personality, and role for a client relations person? For some, this person is not a value add to the client, and merely manages communication. This can be a slippery slope. For others, there is no one dedicated to the client relationship. A healthy relationship is arguably the most important factor to success. And the skills and systems required to do this at scale are not easy to come by. Finding the right person for the role means not only the right experience, but also the right qualities and personality for the job. Can the person in this role lead with emotional intelligence and provide real value beyond just managing communication? Can they LEAD the client? What are some systems and processes to keep this on track? Finding a mutually beneficial balance and a relationship that is deeply rooted in trust sets you up for a long-term business relationship. This will not only benefit your clients, but also your team. Today we dissect all of this in our businesses.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:41] Bob: “This morning I thought we could talk about client services- when I say client services, maybe client relationships, things like that.. In order to scale properly and grow, you really have to have a strong client services plan in place… and the right people that do nothing but focus on client services.” [3:28] Ken: “You can be really good at something but still have a really difficult time making people happy with what you do.” [4:20] Bob talks about how having the right people in place to manage those client relationships means you’re also able to continue building relationships within that organization. [5:24] Brad: “I think it comes down to being intentional with your business, as far as what exactly are the internal processes to make sure that you do what you can do to make sure your client is successful.” [6:33] Ken speaks about what Metacake has put into place and found successful for both the company and their clients.
[8:20] Bob shares his experience being that person as a single-owner business- there was confusion sometimes from clients when he wasn’t around because he was the one leading that charge to bring them in. [9:06] Brad: “I’ve seen a lot of different approaches to client relationships and I see the account manager who comes in and sometimes they just don’t have the breadth of experience, so they literally can’t help their clients.” [9:44] Ken: “For a lot of personalities, it frustrates them, because it slows them down.” He shares that in traditional larger agencies, there are a lot of those non-value added role that slow down processes. [10:45] Brad: “What I’ve found is that they’re always going to seek the people that they know understand… that will for sure get it right… it also depends a lot on the age of the client as well.”
[12:07] Ken talks about the importance of leadership skills when it comes to working with clients. Not only having industry experience, but also experience leading things in general. This should be a prerequisite, being able to lead and having the experience and knowledge to do so.
[14:15] Bob asks: “Do you think you could find someone who doesn’t have the age and experience but still can be a really good client manager and can lead?” Short answer: Absolutely! [15:00] Brad speaks about people who work inside of your team- if they have a deep-rooted interest in the business and how it functions, they can be a great candidate for client management.
[15:38] Ken shares about finding the balance between being in relationship with your client while also detaching enough that you can maintain healthy boundaries and lead effectively. [16:19] Brad shares one of the core goals and values in his company, that they want to make every client feel like a superstar.
[17:43] Ken asks “Are there boundaries that you draw in your own mind… so that you don’t get too emotionally invested?” [20:05] Ken talks about how drawing those boundaries and keeping them up can be difficult, and client relationships “rarely continue forever.” Some client losses can feel like a really bad breakup!
[21:00] Brad talks about Anthem writing boundaries into contracts, and using them to bring that awareness back around if things get difficult. “In the end we try not to put too many roadblocks up…” [22:35] Brad continues, talking about how just going above and beyond with projects isn’t enough to build that trust and enter into the ideal client relationship, where you can help them by bringing ideas and strategies “to get over a hurdle,” THAT is where the real service is.
[24:50] Ken talks about Metacake’s push to launch more coaching type of engagements with clients. “You’re more helping them overcome challenges and problems, and helping them make decisions for themselves, giving feedback, your experience, that kind of thing.”
[27:57] Brad talks about working with clients who are not natural leaders, and being aware of that when developing a relationship with your client is very important. [28:37] Bob asks The Guys for some practical tips for managing clients, and gives one example that he lives by. “Stop using words like ‘You guys should do this… you should. Why don’t we try this, Why don’t we try that,’” Get into the habit of saying “we” instead of “you” so that your client feels more like a partner and remembers that you’re on the same team. [30:16] Brad agrees with Bob, and stresses the importance of making sure you’re still in the drivers seat and leading them effectively.
[31:53] Bob: “The reality is that you’re either the savior or the scapegoat. Sometimes you’re both, depending on the day… How do you navigate that?” [32:26] Brad suggests having a couple of different personality types in the client communication, so that there is someone there who is more operations driven and is keeping everyone on track. So the other team member is freed up to manage the relationship more effectively. [33:40] Ken talks about team makeup, what he calls positive tension between personality types. “If everyone just serves the client, no matter what, you’re going to go out of business.
[36:31] Bob brings the conversation back around to the current state of the world. With the typical “wining and dining” clients to win their contracts GONE, what is the equivalent of that today? [37:05] Ken talks about his experience at a dinner with a very wealthy prospective client. He handed over his business card and the prospect immediately assumed their rates were high because of the feeling and look of the business card. So even in that experience, the situation was misleading and started things off on a non-value added note. [39:56] Bob talks about how in some situations it wouldn’t be appropriate to bring up likes/dislikes of the clients. But if you’re going to invest in and do work for this client, do some research about them, what they like and are interested in. And keep those details in the back of your mind so that if an opportunity to strengthen that relationship comes up later on, you can act on it. [40:35] Ken says that the goal is to create genuine interest and show that you really care, and do that in as many ways as you feel is appropriate. But “the intention and the discipline behind this is easy not to do.” [41:15] Bob “I think that’s a good emotional intelligence piece” and working on knowing how to bring about those connections is a skill that takes time and intention to hone. [42:05] Brad talks about hitting a sweet spot with a client in the relationship, when they start to pour back into you and lift you up to other prospective clients. [43:02] Bob asks for some other tips from The Guys, any processes they have in place to evaluate the client relationships at the 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year mark. [43:50] Ken speaks sending out questionnaires and incentivizing them with Amazon gift cards, etc. Often that doesn’t work and so Metacake has the client in and films them answering a series of questions about the brand and working with Metacake as a client. This is content creation at its best!
[45:00] Bob talks about his company having open house type Christmas parties where client can briefly stop by and hang out. Sending gifts of food during the Holidays is great, but also think about New Years gifts, or Christmas in July. [48:35] Ken, when talking about whether to include a client feature in your newsletter or something similar. “If we’re going to talk about a client, it’s gotta be giving them benefit and highlighting them. Here’s what they’re doing, it’s really great, they’ve got a great product, oh by the way we work with them and it was fun.” [50:45] Brad mentions the difficulty of managing the relationship between the client and the person working directly with them. Having the emotional intelligence to know whether the role should be changed, or the management should be tweaked in some way. [51:50] Ken talks about Metacake having Daily Stand Up meetings where those issues can be discussed with the team and have more objective input. This helps to combat that communication fatigue that can come with burnout, etc.
[53:30] Brad talks about past experiences of having client managers who leave every meeting in tears- measure personality types, measure emotional health at the given moment and swap people out as necessary! [54:32] Ken says that at Metacake they’ve worked with “wolves” on the client side who are bullies and really have a negative impact on team health. It’s your job as the owner to step into that and make the tough decisions, have the tough conversations. [55:31] Bob wraps up this episode, saying that in order to grow and scale you HAVE to invest in the client management/ client relationship side of things effectively. | |||
| 17 Feb 2023 | Ep 125: What is your success theme for 2023? | 00:51:09 | |
Subtitle: How’s 2023 going so far? We start every year with successful themes and words; not resolutions. Approximately 80 percent of those who set New Year’s Resolutions give up at the beginning of February. This is why we at Agency Exposed believe that choosing a word to guide your year and give you something to focus on is a better way to achieve change and grow. In this week’s episode, we break down our themes for this year, our themes from last year, and AI.
Summary: On this week's episode the guys break down their words from last year, their words for 2023, and AI. Ken explains the reasoning behind choosing a word or a theme for a year instead of having resolutions. He quotes basketball coach Tim Grover, stating that "The difference between winners and losers is that winners value the process of winning, and losers, only value the result." He emphasizes the importance of valuing the journey and not just the end goal. Bob then asks the guys to reflect on their words from the previous year, and how they put them into practice. Ken talks about his word from last year, leverage, and how it helped him to understand that by loosening his grip, he can achieve more. He also explains how he views his past words as building blocks and tools to continue to change and grow. Brad talks about his phrase for last year, more fun, and how it helped him to focus on doing more things that bring him joy and laughter. He also shares a conversation he had with his dad that inspired his word, where his dad regretted working too much and not spending enough time with his family. Bob shares his word for the previous year, simplify, and how it helped him to realize that the biggest journeys and adventures are not somewhere out there to conquer, but with the people he does life with. He also talks about his new business that he is launching and how he believes that collaboration is greater than competition. Ken shares his word for this year, belief, and how it has been unpacked for him in so many different ways. He emphasizes that the greatest human superpower is expectation, which is closely related to belief, and that if you change what you expect, you get what you expect, and not what you deserve. Brad talks about the process he used to arrive at his word for this year, transparency, and how he believes it applies not only to business but also to his personal life. He also talks about how he's been testing and using AI and how it's helped him and his business. Bob joins the conversation and talks about the importance of recognizing the things that AI succeeds at and the things that humans succeed at, and how to utilize them to our advantage. He concludes the episode by emphasizing the importance of creating value around our creativity and ideation, as well as our people and services.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:39] Bob opens this week’s episode by introducing this episode’s topic, the guys’ words for 2023. [2:48] Ken talks about the reasoning behind choosing a word or a theme for a year instead of having resolutions. [5:05] Ken talks about a quote from basketball coach Tim Grover and applies it to setting goals. “The difference between winners and losers is that winners value the process of winning, and losers, only value the result.” [7:37] Bob asks the guys to break down their words from last year. “Why don't we talk about our words last year, briefly talk about what the experience was.. And how you live that out.” [8:18] Ken talks about his word from last year, leverage. “You can lift more if you loosen your grip.” [10:04] Ken your multiplier is someone who spends their time on something that actually makes more time in the future. It's like an investment. [15:40] Ken says that he views his past words as building blocks and tools to continue to change. [16:23] Brad talks about his phrase for this past year, more fun. “I live with the goal of doing more stuff. But it's always for return on investment. And I realized that I'm best when I'm laughing.” [20:29] Brad talks about a discussion he had with his dad that inspired his word and created a shift in his perspective. “I asked my dad, what is the one thing in life that you regret? And he said, "I regret working so much, because I wasn't around my family as much.” [21:25] Bob talks about his word for last year, simplify. [24:51] Bob opens with his word for this year, collaborate and talks about his new business that he is launching. “I know that collaboration is greater than competition.” [27:32] Ken talks about his word for this year, belief. “Over the last year, that word keeps coming up in my life, and in different ways. And it's been unpacked, for me, in so many different ways… the greatest human superpower is expectation, which you can say is basically a synonym of belief. But basically if you change what you expect, you get what you expect. You get what you believe you don't get what you deserve, you get what you believe.” [32:13] Brad talks about the process he used to get to his word, transparency. “So first I, my word was clarity. I'm going to choose a different word. While clarity is the understanding of something, transparency is being able to see it as well.” [33:45] Brad digs into the idea of transparency and authenticity and how it not only applies to business but also to his personal life. [37:09] Ken starts a discussion about AI and how it is being used today. [38:09] Brad talks about the ways he’s been testing and using AI and how it’s helped him and his business. “And so I will tell, I will kind of craft the initial idea of what I want. And they'll just ask it to refine, refine, refine, refine, refine, and then I'll say, Give me three alternatives to that. And it'll give you ideas.” [42:25] Bob talks about the importance of recognizing the things that AI succeeds at and the things that humans succeed at, and utilizing those to your advantage. [49:36] Bob wraps up this episode by saying, “you need to create value around your creativity and your ideation versus your people and your services.”
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| 07 Oct 2020 | Ep 41: What’s the key to delivering excellence at scale? The art of delegation. | 00:55:28 | |
Summary: Today we are talking about the challenges of learning to delegate effectively. We all know that freeing up our time to focus on the things that we specialize in is the ultimate way to be effective- nobody wants to be stuck doing things they hate, or things they don’t find purpose in or aren’t good at. But failure to delegate properly can result in burnout, and not just for you! It’s the opposite of snapping orders. When the leader is overwhelmed and uninspired, the whole team feels it. So listen in as we dissect what it really means to delegate effectively- from hiring a team with delegation in mind to creating a list of things that only YOU can do- and creating a team built on strong working relationships, efficiency, and trust.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [5:00] Bob talks about delegation, and how necessary the skill of delegation is to being able to scale your agency effectively. [6:00] Ken talks about how personality can impact your ability to delegate- hitting the sweet spot with the right person in the right role can be very challenging. “You have to delegate effectively in order to be able to scale something, in order to be good at life.”
[7:15] Brad talks about how delegating can feel like a risk, especially if you don’t trust the person to do as good a job as you can. Depends on the type of owner you are- some want to lead, to be visionaries and don’t care to get into the weeds, others begin a business as a jack of all trades and slowly grow. This second type can find delegating particularly difficult. “You’ve gotta let it go to grow!” [9:37] Ken talks about what jobs you do, and slowly firing yourself from the things that others can do. Delegation speeds things up, but in the beginning it slows things down. [10:40] Brad: Processes will aid in delegation, so those two should be thought about at the same time. [11:30] Bob asks about the correlation between delegation and outsourcing vs hiring another employee, contractors, etc. Are they the same thing or not? [11:45] Brad views it as taking people on your current team and looking at where their skillsets are, then teaching them those skills that will help relieve some of your responsibilities. [12:21] Ken says that in some ways, outsourcing is a form of delegation. “A more defined way of delegating something is hiring a professional who already does that thing… the art of delegation and the personal growth attached to it doesn’t come from outsourcing…” [14:00] Bob talks about working with high-level CEO’s who are masters of delegation. They’re able to take what feel like monumental tasks and set them up as a clear line of success. [15:35] Ken talks about trust being the key factor in delegating. Step One is finding the right people- “If you want to scale, you have to hire people that are trustworthy and competent and capable of taking care of the role, the skill, the things that you trust them to do.” [15:30] Brad gives 3 things that he struggles with in being able to delegate tasks to someone.
[18:00] Bob talks about building a team with delegation in mind. Preparing in advance for who you will need in your organization and how their personalities will fit into the roles that you need filled. [19:00] Ken says that you should ask yourself “Is there something going on in life/business that is capping my growth?”
[21:07] Brad says that often after you back off and let someone have the freedom to do things their way, they will do what you’ve asked in new ways. [24:00] Ken talks about the idea of beginning with a virtual assistant, because it requires you to document a process for someone and then hand it off. [25:40] Brad asks about how to decide what it is that you can delegate- starting with the concept of what only YOU can do. And whatever shakes out of that question is where you should begin to delegate. [27:00] Ken talks about how sometimes, knowing a little bit about a lot of things can make it difficult to pare down that decision making process. And being under stress can create even more retraction from asking for help, just sinking inward and trying to take on the world on your own.
[29:30] Brad emphasizes that we’re not talking about the type of delegating that takes you out of the business completely, rather delegation that frees you up to focus more on the things that REALLY matter and that ONLY YOU can do.
[29:50] Bob says that deciding what you want to delegate, what you should delegate, what’s on the table to delegate, etc helps to provide clarity. And ultimately, that process takes time.
[33:52] Ken asks Bob what the things are that he sticks with.
[35:00] Ken asks Bob about the things he always delegates.
[36:21] Ken talks again about how important it is to find people that you can trust to take over these tasks.
[40:30] Brad talks about the things he enjoys most that he tries to keep for himself- he’s very good at understanding human behaviors when it comes to decision-making in marketing and advertising. “I can see not just the beginning of the customer journey, but every way down the road… I’m always thinking a bit more forward.”
[42:50] Ken talks about content creation and having the time and mental space to be that vision in your company. Recently Metacake has put out a lot of new content, and the key is “how do you scale something that is the soul of a brand?”
[45:43] Bob asks about tools that The Guys have done to help with delegation. [45:47] Ken says that his team uses the DISC personality test to help get to know your employees and delegate tasks accordingly. [46:49] Brad says that the best tool is a human person with strong skills who can be trained and hold themselves accountable for moving things forward. Anthem uses Asana for project management. [47:38] Ken talks about identifying people’s top 3 main roles when they start, the 3 areas that they’re going to work within. Also, in identifying your list of things to delegate out first, you can write it down EXACTLY as you would do it, and train someone else to do the same. [50:29] Ken continues: “The only way you can scale as a company is if you scale organizationally.” [51:54] Bob clarifies that we are not talking about the stereotypical boss/assistant role. Delegation is not about lesser-than people who are doing the dirty work, but people coming together to create a well-oiled organism.
[53:10] Ken talks about how delegation means truly allowing someone to be the authority in that place. Requiring check-ins frequently to get things done doesn’t work, and isn’t effective delegation. | |||
| 30 Jun 2023 | Ep 132: Charge more than ever before | 00:40:47 | |
Subtitle: Unlocking the Secrets to Success: Discover the transformative power of creativity, differentiation, and strategic pricing as the guys delve deeper into the concept of "10x-ing" prices. From the link between creativity and income generation to the art of effective communication and leveraging unique labels, this episode unveils the keys to delivering exceptional value and achieving unparalleled success in business. Get ready to revolutionize your approach and create happier, more satisfied customers along the way. The guys break down the role of creativity, AI, the power of labels, time, your unique superpower, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: In this episode, Bob starts by reviewing the previous discussion about the importance of "10x-ing" prices and reveals that they will explore this concept further. Ken connects creativity to price increases, referencing the book "The Science of Getting Rich" and emphasizing creativity as a means to generate income. Bob adds to this by mentioning a study by the World Economic Forum, highlighting creative thinking as the top skill needed in the future. Brad explores the role of AI in creativity, concluding that human creativity and experience are necessary to fine-tune AI-generated outputs. Bob asks the guys if they believe that raising prices significantly while offering the same services is feasible. Ken discusses the power of labels, highlighting the need to differentiate oneself and avoid being categorized based on common expectations. The importance of finding one's superpower and leveraging it for differentiation, creativity, and increased prices is emphasized. Ken shares insights on increasing prices without increasing expenses, particularly in terms of time. Brad explains how his company implements the "10x" method by assessing client satisfaction and excitement rankings. Bob differentiates himself by presenting a larger scope of services and leading with his expertise and experience. Ken adds to this by emphasizing the importance of effective communication of a unique label and highlighting how businesses can provide value in distinct ways. The uncertainty in the business world and economy is discussed in relation to raising prices, with Ken noting that money is infinite while time is finite. Brad discusses leveraging opportunities during recessions and relates them to raising prices. Ken provides tips for preparing for price increases, including believing in their possibility and necessity, and ensuring that costs remain a fraction of the price charged. Bob concludes by emphasizing that charging more money enables businesses to deliver exceptional results and create happier customers. Overall, the discussion revolves around the importance of creativity, differentiation, effective communication, and the benefits of raising prices in delivering exceptional value and success in business.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:08] Bob kicks off this week’s episode by reviewing the discussion last episode about the importance of 10x your prices, and reveals that they will be diving deeper into this idea this episode. [3:15] Ken makes the connection between creativity and price increases and discusses a book he read recently, “The Science of Getting Rich”, and how it links them.”This book was written in the 20s. It's basically all about creativity and how creativity is how you get anything. It's an unlimited well to generate income. I would venture to say that thinking about how to 10x your prices is an example of using creativity, not anything else, to generate more income.” [5:05] Bob adds to Ken’s discussion on creativity by mentioning a study done by the World Economic Forum. “One of the graphs that caught my eye said, ‘What would you rank in priority, the top skills that are going to be in demand and needed in the next several years?’ And so you're thinking, you know, all kinds of logical perspectives, but the number one thing that they said is going to be needed is creative thinking.” [7:50] Brad explores the idea of AI and creativity, and comes to the conclusion that although AI is an incredible tool, it’s much like an unpaid intern; at the end of the day, it gives you the rough basis and you use human creativity and experience to fine tune it.“You don't give the interns work to a client, unless you look over it, right, tweak it, change it.” [9:51] Bob asks the guys to unpack the idea that, “you can't offer the same services and then raise your prices considerably and call it the same thing.” [11:49] Ken talks about the power of labels, and goes back to the roots of running a business; building wealth, and being fulfilled. “Just calling yourself an agency puts you into a certain category where certain people expect certain types of things and certain prices and certain ways of engaging with you, and that may not be advantageous to you.” [16:13] Bob touches on the importance of finding your superpower and the role that can play in labeling yourself, creativity, and increasing your prices. [18:46] Ken wraps up the chat about labels with some insight on increasing your prices without increasing your expenses; especially in time. “The more you talk about things in the labels that are commodities, the less you will be able to do anything about changing your income, your pricing your profit, and you won't be able to decide that.” [22:52] Brad dives into some of the ways he and his company have been implementing the 10x method and offers some insight. “For us, we have to look at what specific projects or what type of work we can do… The key is for you to have a satisfaction/excitement ranking on your client. You have to kind of diagnose every one of your customers… So maybe the diagnosis is we can't 10x anything on this customer. But we can get them from a satisfaction/excitement ranking of two to a 10.” [26:36] Bob discusses how he differentiates himself from competitors and utilizes a larger perspective to do so. “One of the ways that I've differentiated myself is to try to present the bigger scope of what I'm providing versus the individual things. And to lead with that. And like you said, it's easier for me because I'm not going back to a bunch of previous clients necessarily. So the way that I do that, is say, I'm an executive growth hacker that looks at things through the lens of behavioral science and psychology. So if you need an executive, ie high level person that understands how to grow your business in the digital context. Secondly, I say, I can serve as a fractional CMO. I'm approaching it from a bigger perspective of saying, You're not hiring me to do these things, you're hiring me for my experience.” [29:02] Ken adds to Bob’s thoughts and connects it back to the power of labeling and effective ways of communicating your unique label. “Nike is known for what they’re known for and that’s why they charge what they charge. I would ask the question, you could probably do the exact same thing, just in a different way; like you're known for certain things that no one else is. You can't be an agency. You're not a consultant. You're Bob Hutchins. It's very different. Like, you may do consulting, you may do some agency like work, and you do some non agency stuff. We deliver these types of results. We've had this type of experience, we had this type of success. If you like this, this is who you’re looking for.” [32:10] Bob asks the guys for their thoughts on raising prices in light of the uncertainty in the business world and economy. [33:39] Ken says, “Money is infinite; time is finite.” [34:32] Brad discusses some of the leveraging opportunities that arise during a recession and relates them to raising prices. [35:58] Ken mentions some important tips to help as you prepare for price increases in uncertain times. “Believe that it's possible, believe that it's necessary, believe that your cost needs to be no more than 1/5 of the price that you cha36:08rge. If your business isn't serving you, well, you're not profiting from it appropriately, then nothing else works; you have to fix that.” [39:23] Bob wraps up with some final thoughts on 10x your price. “People are happier when you charge them more money, because it gives you the resources to do an amazing job. That's why you 10x so you can be the best that you can be. And they can be the happiest customers on the other end.”
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| 28 Apr 2021 | Ep 70: The Power of Your Morning Ritual (A Day in the Life of Ken Ott) | 00:48:20 | |
Summary: A specific morning ritual is a VITAL part of any business leader’s recipe for success. The ONE thing successful people have in common is the fact that they HAVE a morning ritual. And today we’re going through a day in the life of one of our hosts, Ken Ott. One of the keys to Ken’s day is everything that happens before the work-day starts. We talk: rituals, nutrition, intermittent fasting, bulletproof coffee, morning exercise vs afternoon exercise, weights vs cardio, meeting schedules, balancing various roles, the struggle of staying on track throughout the day, and how he ends his day. Hopefully you find it insightful and inspiring in some small way. Stay tuned!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:41] Bob introduces today’s topic- what a day in the life of an agency leader looks like from the inside. [3:19] Ken shares his workspace- a 1920’s home in downtown Franklin, TN. The home is between 2,500 and 3,000 square feet, and is located in a historic area. The physical office serves more as a flex space and home base for the team. Metacake has around 20 employees, with a core group in Nashville. [5:48] Ken says that he’s worked with a business coach for several years, and one of the first things they worked on together was his morning ritual. Especially in the service industry, having a jumpstart on your day and being ahead of the game wherever possible is enormously beneficial. [8:07] Ken’s days start between 5 and 5:30 typically, which means he’s ready for bed by 9:30pm. He starts with nutritional supplements and green juice with bulletproof coffee first thing. “That nutrition in the mornings for me changes the trajectory of my day…” [10:37] Ken continues, talking about the home gym that he’s built in his garage and how helpful that is to making fitness a priority. Weights aren’t for mornings though! Brisk walks take the place of a heavier workout in the morning, just to wake up fully. [12:35] Brad reflects on Ken’s discipline and workout structure. He has a constant battle going on between his mind and body- and this keeps him on task and incredibly disciplined. [14:20] Ken talks about how our bodies were designed to live very different lives than we live now. Even with the best medicine in human history, all the critical illnesses are progressing at higher rates- which clearly points to a lack of understanding of how we were meant to live. Our daily routines and how we live do not properly reflect the healthiest lifestyles for our bodies. [16:19] Ken talks about metabolic flexibility. For those who practice fasting and diets like keto for a limited time, your metabolism is rewiring itself and your body is being conditioned to burn those calories more efficiently. [18:23] Ken “I believe it’s my job to be at peak physical fitness so that I can mentally and spiritually also be at my peak… in order to be at the top, you have to train like it. Training can mean different things to different people, although my personal belief is that physical training, mental training, spiritual training are kind of critical.”
[20:56] Brad says that he uses his Google calendar to block off time for tasks, that way his team members don’t schedule things during times when he isn’t available. It can be easy for your schedule to get booked up quickly otherwise. [23:05] Ken says this is especially important when you’re a leader. The intentionality behind your scheduling is so valuable. “You’ve got to figure out what is best for my role? What does success mean? And then what are my business goals and how does that translate into actions that I work on? [24:52] Ken talks about his spiritual foundation and how it impacts his leadership abilities. Centering yourself before the day gets going is vital to grounding yourself in truth that feeds you and allows you to release your frustration. [26:07] Brad “You’ve got to be intentional otherwise your business will run you, your clients will run you, then you’re just reactive.” [26:27] Ken says that one of his biggest fears is entering old age and realizing that he’s purely been reactive for his whole life. “You don't want to look back at the end of your life… it would be horrible to feel like I had this talent but never did it because I just reacted the whole time.”
[28:51] Bob talks about the mind-body connection that is a key part of Ken’s daily routine. We live in a post-modern society here in America, where the importance of that connection canNOT be emphasized enough. He shares a story about a relative who was feeling overwhelmed in their role at work and was considering quitting. Bob encouraged him to step outside, walk around the block several times, do some body weight exercises and call back in an hour. And that made all the difference in the world for this individual’s mindset that day. [30:57] Ken further drives this point home “When you feel down and you feel low energy and you feel not enough and not worth it and depressed or stressed, that can be a result of and be influenced by activity… it’s all biology.” He talks about how our culture has separated that assumed connection, and says the way we live our lives reflects that. [32:13] Bob talks about fear and anxiety, saying that many of us stare fear in teh face every day but don’t take action. “We never react, we just keep compounding it,” and our bodies don’t know what to do with that kind of pent-up energy. He talks about how animals on the plains of Africa will shake and run in place after a narrow escape from a predator- they’re essentially working out that energy that their hormones kicked up, and then they go about their day. We as humans have lost that connection- so taking steps to be proactive about this is the focus of today’s episode. [34:30] Ken talks the importance of having awareness of that mind-body connection. He says that lifting weights and building muscle is a priority for him, as it changes your biology in a really good way. Try doing these things as early in the day as you can, “Because everything after that point… you will think more clearly, you’ll have more ideas, you’ll be more creative, you’ll be lower stress, you’ll have a higher ability to make quick decisions…” [35:47] Brad echoes this point, “My brain works so much better when I’m active!” He asks Ken what time his days start, work-wise. [36:45] Ken’s work day begins with an 8:45 daily stand up meeting, with the goal being everyone doing a version of planning before that meeting and then sharing their top 3 goals for the day. There is open discussion as everyone shares their list, and team members can help one another focus on priorities and clearing up any confusion. They discuss any meetings that day, and the result is everyone being aligned on their tasks and goals for the day. This helps hold people accountable for moving projects along and completing tasks.
[38:58] Ken’s days typically flow into creative tasks from there. Mornings are creative times, so he focuses on content creation, podcasting, writing, and those kinds of things in the morning. Afternoons are for meetings and things that take less creative brain power. He tries to fit his workout into lunch time.
[40:39] Bob talks about how he learned this lesson later in life than he would have liked. “It was definitely detrimental to my family, my relationships, but ultimately at the end of the day my performance in my business” suffered as well. [42:23] Ken clarifies that his goal isn’t to do these things perfectly, but rather being strategic and intentional about his time to maximize his energy and allow himself to truly enjoy the rest of his life. [43:11] Ken talks about the end of his days, saying that the way you end your day is a bookend to your morning routine. The last thing you’re doing before bed is what you’ll carry into sleep, and it will impact the next day somehow. There is a deep advantage to ending your day in a positive way, and easing yourself into sleep that is truly restful and regenerative. [45:07] Ken says that he tries to end his day thinking about what his next day will look like. He tries to be intentional how the next day will begin, jotting down notes before bed to give his brain a jumpstart on solving those problems. Your brain can do a lot of work while you sleep! | |||
| 18 Mar 2020 | Ep 12: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 1): How will your business survive (and thrive) through Coronavirus? | 01:00:15 | |
Summary: We talk about "disruption" in business all the time, but we rarely expect disruption to come from the external. The population's reaction to Coronavirus / COVID-19 has disrupted everything including business. Some businesses are being affected in immediate ways, and others will see lagging affects, but no business is immune. Regardless, we know that seasons will come and go. Winter will always come, it will be hard, but the shedding will produce fruit IF we adapt appropriately. In this special episode we unpack how we are seeing the effects of Coronavirus in our businesses and how we are processing dealing with them.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob mentions the Coroniavirus (Covid-19) and refers to his recent article. “We talk a lot about disruption, right… this disruption is coming from the outside that we have no control over this time… It’s not Facebook being disruptive or Apple being disruptive… Let’s discuss how we’re being affected by it, by our clients that are being affected by it.” [2:13] “Anytime you’re disrupted by anything, it’s hard but it causes you to adapt and that ultimately is a good thing. And so how are we doing that?” [2:16] Bob: “How are we learning from this? This is a huge lesson that we are being given whether we like it or not.” [2:24] Brad: “Is this a gift? Is that what you’re saying?” [2:41] Bob: “I know that there’s the reality of people dying in pain and there’s a lot of negative things that go along with it. But when it’s all said and done… I think we’ll look back and say wow the Coronavirus was the end of… fill in the blank. And those are the things maybe that we can learn from this and adapt as well.” [4:32] Ken speaks on the widespread business effects of the virus- tourism, music, restaurants, etc- “But in our world, the agency world, we often operate in the digital world… but our clients maybe not right? So that’s why we’re here today- to talk about we as agency owners can help other businesses that are being affected… And then the other area that might be interesting is Are we being affected right now?” [5:04] Ken speaks on how it’s important to understand that just because you work in the digital world, or just because you can go remote quickly or easily doesn’t mean that you won’t be impacted. It’s important as a business leader that you are looking ahead. “If we’re not looking ahead, that’s probably very naive and unwise. And so today we want to sort of looking ahead to that.” [5:44] Brad gives his take and the way his business is being impacted. “I think within the next week or so I’ll begin seeing some immediate effects.”
[8:00] Brad: “Its really hard to manage a business when you don’t know what tomorrow may look like… it’s a challenging time for clarity. It’s a major challenge for me because I have to be reactive. And I don’t like being reactive, I like being proactive. And there’s a certain level of, you just have to trust that humans are going to figure this out.” [9:51] Brad: “I don’t fear for my life, but I fear that I could pass it on to somebody else.” [10:13] Brad speaks on other financial happenings that will eventually impact every business, regardless of your exposure. The stock market tanking is one example. [11:32] “I feel like if you could take the financial crash of 2008- 2009 and mix that with Y2K, add some bird flu, add some swine flu… you got this perfect storm.” [11:46] Bob reflects on the panic surrounding Y2K in the 90’s and relating the very real fear of specific impacts versus the panic about planes falling out of the air and people getting stuck in elevators. This is similar, with people stockpiling toilet paper and creating a panic around that. People have been arrested for claiming to have a cure for the Coronavirus.
[14:00] Bob asks: “How do I learn from this as a business? How do I survive and not just follow the herd?”
[16:29] Ken speaks on accepting the reality of the situation and not being resistant to your business changing. Radical acceptance of having NO control or clarity on life is a journey and process that builds strength and resistance to the pains of life over time. [20:39] Ken: “The biggest challenge [with older, traditional clients] is cracking through the mindset that this is just how it works. We can’t change… if you’re in that mindset, you’re probably going to be disrupted by this and you will not get out of it until you change that mindset.”
[24:00] Brad: “I don’t think we give ourselves enough credit as humans, we can figure things out pretty quickly if we need to… like in that movie you were talking about Bob, he probably wasn’t focused on the time constraints, just on focused on the end result.”
[30:35] Ken speaks on the importance of project management tools, to get your workforce at home and safe if possible.
[34:05] Brad mentions GoToMeeting, his company is very comfortable with that as a video call resource. [35:00] Brad speaks about planning for future projects in your own business. “Just be really thoughtful financially about where you are… every business you’re deciding your next step and what you’re going to invest in… prioritize what’s important in the long run. Also: How do we leverage time? How do we see this as an opportunity to leverage this time in our business?”
[36:04] Ken mentions resources on getting the most out of working from home, including a boo written by the creators of Basecamp. [38:00] Bob asks “What are some things you guys know you are going to throw away during this time, and how are you trying to thrive through this?” [39:45] Ken: “We’re considering how to offer genuine help in genuine ways to businesses that are actually affected… so we’re considering… retail vs online… we may be offering some support for no charge for a little bit.”
[42:59] Bob: “I think there’s going to be a huge boom in virtual reality through this… we may be forced at home in our cocoons, but we have eyes to see more than ever before.” [45:34] Brad reflects on technology and the speed of communication having an impact on this situation: “Is it the actual virus or is it the information that is actually traveling faster? You only realize it when something like this happens, just how deeply entwined we are with everyone these days… supply chains in china are impacting our direct daily lives here.” [46:41] Brad: “We try not to drive our businesses out of fear, right? But the reality is, is that when stuff like this happens, you realize how much out of control we all kind of are in our businesses that we do have to be reactive.” [49:50] Bob talks about how there is a fine line between benefiting from a terrible thing and being opportunistic, but also balancing the reality that we are all humans and all interconnected. It’s important to keep clarity on that fact in the distance as we make day by day decisions that have a rippling impact. [52:56] Ken speaks on balance.
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| 21 Apr 2021 | Ep 69: What’s Your Pricing Strategy? | 00:54:46 | |
Subtitle: Understanding how to price your services is both complex and challenging, and there are a LOT of variables at play. Do you price based on effort or value? Do you prepare for haggling or give your final price upfront? Are you too expensive or not expensive enough? There are pros and cons with every decision and the lack of discussion around this topic makes for widely scattered strategies. Today we discuss how we price services and why.
Summary: In today’s episode we talk about the psychological implications of pricing strategies and how those strategies impact client relationships. We discuss leveraging those initial sales pitch conversations to learn as much about the client’s vision as possible, agreeing on the lifetime value of a customer and how that lifespan plays out within your agency, billable hours versus man hours and how to price fairly according to both… and more. We’re digging deep in this one, and getting vulnerable about our experiences pricing clients of all sizes and stages of growth. Stay tuned!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:41] Bob introduces today’s topic- pricing and pricing models. He and Ken discuss discounts and where they can be used as a strategy. [2:10] Bob asks whether Brad or Ken have seen changes in their pricing over the last year. [2:32] Brad says that they’ve had some clients as for reductions in specific areas but overall they’ve not changed their pricing as an agency. [2:45] Ken “We’ve tried more and more to get out of the box pricing going.” This means more consistent pricing for a scoped project. [3:40] Bob shares his experience over the last year, saying that although the agency he works for hasn’t moved to out of the box pricing they have developed more strategy sessions, assessments, audits, and other things that put parameters on a project. This helps to give a more accurate estimate and increases confidence that the client can trust you with their marketing dollar. This is especially important in the current climate when some companies may be tempted to hold back on their spending. [5:25] Ken The goal is to make it an easy “yes” for your potential clients! [5:59] Brad talks about the difference between selling the commodities side of your services versus things that can’t be price checked. This harkens back to the idea that in business you can be the Cheapest, the Best, or the Only- and if you’re the Only there is no price checking that is truly comparable. [7:51] Brad continues, saying that the first step is taking a realistic look at your pricing model. Can you offer a reduced price for clients who make a long term commitment? How can you build new features into your pricing to offer a competitive advantage over other agencies? [9:01] Ken talks about building extreme value into your pricing model, saying it doesn’t have to mean cheap. Instead, you want to provide an outcome that far outweighs the cost. [9:31] Brad stresses the importance of making sure you understand the return on investment that you’re giving back to your clients. Because if they see that you’re making them 10X, they’re not going to leave- and they’re not going to call you expensive. They’re going to call you awesome! [11:39] Brad shares a story about a client whose consumer product ads are getting high as far as cost of acquisition. While from one perspective, some may say this is the time to pull back because of cost, Brad knows that they are gaining 1000s and 1000s of people’s awareness of their product. This is an example of how keeping your clients up to date about their real time ROI is so important!
[12:52] Bob stresses the importance of having a clear understanding of how the client defines success. If you’re already not speaking the same language with a client as far as this goes, then there is likely to be a lot of miscommunication down the line.
[17:00] Ken talks about initial conversations with clients, saying that often the conversation gets cannibalized by talking about website design or details that don’t have anything to do with the end goal. Trying to talk about those small details during that first conversation “It’s like talking about all the turns you’re going to make in a trip, rather than talking about where you need to be.” [20:12] Brad asks if Bob and Ken include the time it takes to provide estimates in their final pricing models. If so, is this something that they tell their clients? [20:35] Ken says that Metacake tracks that time, but they don’t include it into their pricing. This is mostly because it can be so complicated to build in appropriately.
[24:41] Ken shares his experience working with clients who have internal chaos and constant turnover or change in leadership. It can make the strategy and long-term vision for the company as a whole very difficult to figure out. It also creates an innate power imbalance from the very start, and puts the agency in a defensive posture. [27:37] Ken “If you don’t care enough to talk about it, you’re probably not gonna care about my time to talk about it… if you’re not willing to apply your effort into and focus just for a period of time… you’re probably not going to value my time either.” [28:45] Bob asks if Ken or Brad provide hourly rates that help determine their retainer pricing. [28:53] Ken asks another question- is pricing based on hours, or value, or results? [29:03] Brad says their rate is based on hours, but also monthly man hours- or the actual number of people that will be working on the project and how much of their workload will actually be dedicated to that project. [30:00] Brad continues, saying that they do special pricing for new projects, or things they haven’t done before and aren’t 100% sure of how they should be charging. In those situations they’ll typically give a range, so that clients have a ceiling expectation and you can work towards coming in under that estimate. Later down the line this is helpful as well, because if you come across a roadblock that means more money from the client, they already trust that you’re providing value. [33:47] Ken talks about separating the things that you can control versus the things that you can’t, and leveraging those that you can control as a way to create predictable results. When you are able to peel those things back, you can build them as a flat fee service. [36:14] Brad says that it is important to understand your billable multiplier is to your talent. When you have several different roles within your organization with all different experience levels and salaries, it’s more difficult to charge by man hours. But in the end, agencies are human resource companies. Humans are the resource that provide the excellence in work. It is worthwhile for you to take a good look at your billable multiplier and understand your profit center. [39:48] Brad says that clients think in terms of hours- and so it’s on the agency to communicate in a way that the client will understand and is based on time in some way. [45:08] Brad asks if Bob and Ken have clients that demand total transparency. [45:32] Bob mentions that his agency builds a dashboard that clients can access at any given moment and see where they are in spending, the status of their deliverables, which parts of the project are outstanding, and more. At any given time, there is complete transparency. [46:15] Ken “I think there’s a transparency that is unhealthy when that pierces through the projects into your business model,” he says. If clients are wanting to know about your profit margin or question your business model, that is a sign that your value may be undermined from the jump. [47:40] Ken “Let's end with a question that I asked at the beginning, which is do you discount? Because I think that discounting conversation does tend to get into meddling with the model a little bit. He asks, “Would you discount for people when they say hey can you show me a little love here…” [47:56] Bob says that he only offers discounts when it’s used to sell a project from a marketing perspective. Offering a discount for a year-long retainer versus a 6-month engagement is a sales tactic, ultimately. It comes down to being able to come up with creative marketing solutions- if you can continue to come up with these solutions past 6 months then it’s probably a client worth a longer contract. [50:23] Brad explains that long story short, if you feel like the discount may not be adding to the long term value of your client relationship then it’s probably not going to be the best choice for your business. [50:55] Ken “I think that the ultimate thing that you want to protect is having a balanced relationship in the future.” If there is more gameplay on the front end, that is a sign that the long term psychological impact may be detrimental to the relationship. [52:47] Brad says you should have a strong awareness overall of where you stand in your pricing. At Anthem, if a client decides not to go with the RFP they’ve received, Anthem’s team will then reach out and ask where they compare as far as pricing goes. This will help you understand how to make adjustments to better serve your potential clients. Getting feedback from clients that decide not to work with you also serves as a reminder of you for the future. | |||
| 22 Jul 2020 | Ep 30: Media Buying is Broken (Part 2) - Rethinking the pricing model | 00:54:43 | |
Summary: In our last episode we started to unpack the current media buying model and discuss why we believe it’s no longer effective. In this episode we start to practically discuss what a re-engineered advertising model could look like for our agencies. We all know there is no perfect model, but there is a better one. One that takes into account the various platforms skills required, creative refreshes, budgets and more. The way we market has changed in the last 70+ years, with more platforms than ever the service structure of media buying needs to change as well.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:26] Bob introduces this week’s episode- Part 2 of Media Buying. We’re talking about pricing, current models, and how to evolve your pricing within the ever-evolving world of digital marketing.
[3:58] Ken: “It’s my opinion that people see ad buying, media buying as a commodity. And so we don’t try to compete on that.”
[5:10] Ken continues: “If we’re talking pricing, we separate out each platform because they’re different, they take different skill sets and there’s different intent.” The purpose of one platform may not be the same as the next, and so your philosophy behind each is going to be different.
[7:42] Ken: Speaks about different clients and the different parts of the process they dip their toes into. “There’s a certain amount that I believe has to come from the brand. So the heart and soul of the message has to be there, whether we do it separately or the brand has it… I don’t think you can just come in and start writing for the brand and have it feel authentic and work.”
[8:58] Ken: “There are certain factors that really drive cost, and reporting is one that no one talks about, but is very important and time consuming.”
[10:12] Brad speaks about the importance of agreeing with your client about which indicators you’re going to work from. Often as you share information, the client will want to know more and you dig into that information and before you know it, you’ve double the hours you originally agreed to spend doing research and not getting paid for that work.
[11:00] Ken speaks about Metacake’s model away from that specific issue- we’re trying to adjust our model based on role.
[14:15] Brad: Some clients at Anthem are still being rebilled after the agency fronts the bill for the media, but they are trying to move away from that, as it is such a high risk.
[17:00] Brad continues: There is a LOT of work done upfront for most clients, a deep understanding of their brand and customers. Educating clients on this process, explaining that ads are just a small part of a strategy (the pitcher in a baseball game, but we need ALL the players to win!) and there is so much more to their growth and customer journey.
[20:25] Brad speaks about how some clients don’t have an appropriate understanding of Customer LTV or Lifetime Value. And if they can’t understand the importance of that, there is a LOT of education ahead of you to work with them and be successful. [20:40] Bob recalls meeting with a local agency recently, and he asked how many of their clients were aware of their customer’s lifetime value. Even decent-sized, older companies still don’t know what a lifelong customer relationship looks like. [22:00] Bob continues: “Logic says, if I put in a dollar, I want at least that or more out… Understanding lifetime value gives you a whole wide range of what success looks like.” [25:49] Brad talks about common blind spots with new brands. “They haven’t priced into their model the cost of customer acquisition properly… let’s say I’m selling widgets for $10. And my cost of goods is $5. They think that they should only spend 20cents to get a customer.”
[29:40] Brad continues: “We do have a minimum, and it does fluctuate… our minimum would definitely be $2K a month but it really does depend on the work and it depends on the short term scope.
[33:11] Bob: “I think it needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis, just as you would the creative, the packaging, the development, the way you treat everything else. [35:34] Ken talks about how your message and advertising needs to be the same across all platforms- but doing this on several platforms is a lot more work. So Metacake charges around $10-$15K a month for these multi-platform, broad scope campaigns.
[38:40] Bob introduces another model we haven’t covered yet- a model where clients don’t pay unless the agency produces. [39:21] Ken’s experience with this model has shown that it requires a LOT of trust on both ends. There needs to be proof of trust for both, and it is more of a partnership than a client-agency relationship. [40:00] Brad: “If my payback is based on their decision that I have no control over, then I’m just a silent investor.” [43:20] Ken: “I think that the mentality, if there’s not maturity around what it takes to take on investment on your company and what it means for someone to be invested in your company, then I think that it’s probably going to be a slippery thing.” [50:56] Ken: “There’s two parts to basic business success- and it’s one, having a great product, but that’s no good if you don’t have a great brand, which inherently means people know about you and care about you.”
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| 20 May 2021 | Ep 73: Are we Really Fighting for Privacy? | 00:40:22 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we debate the difference between online privacy and online anonymity. It seems we may have the 2 confused in today’s culture. Where does privacy end and anonymity begin? And how does all of it affect us as advertisers? We discuss the difference between privacy and anonymity, the “Big Brother” fear that drives us to desire these things, and how maybe the lack of anonymity is a good thing.
Top 2 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:08] Bob introduces today’s episode by catching us up on some recent news. There’s a lot of buzz on the internet about privacy, with names like Facebook, Google, and Apple duking it out over privacy rights. There are those in the government that are sick of the games, and there is a lot of validity to that frustration. As individuals we have a lot of information about ourselves online, and we don’t know where that information begins and ends. Most people are trying to fight for anonymity- which is near impossible on the internet. [3:59] Bob states his opinion regarding this argument. “If we’re going to engage and function with other human beings, online or offline… if I go out in public and I do these things (go to the grocery store, etc) then I give up certain rights and freedoms to enjoy that luxury and that benefit that I get.” [5:18] Brad asks “Do you think more Americans have this philosophically deep charge that the government, the world doesn’t need to know who I am?” He tells us about a client in Romania, where they are more used to their privacy being infringed upon by the government in their daily lives. They are not as concerned about who has their data and what’s being done with it, because they already assume ALL of their information is out there and out of their control.
[7:17] Bob challenges anyone who might say “Wow China is awful for doing that,” saying that here in the US we basically do the same thing every time we swipe a credit card, it’s just not a centralized source of information. [7:47] Bob helps us define privacy, for the sake of clarity in today’s discussion. There is a difference between data security and privacy, in that the overreach isn’t innately a bad thing but not having an awareness of that overreach is the problem. His definition basically says “Don’t bother me, leave me alone. Don’t invade my space.” [9:45] Bob continues, saying that consumers must have an awareness of what they’re signing up for when agreeing to terms and conditions. It’s really no different than entering into a mutual agreement with a grocery store. You walk in, get what you need, pay with cash or a digital payment method, and in exchange the grocery store keeps a record of your receipt and what you purchased for their own inventory and stock purposes. Downloading an app or singing up for a “free” service online isn’t ever really free. [12:35] Ken says that some people view privacy as essentially wanting to be invisible. But that’s not how things work in this physical reality- we’re all human beings and we can’t be invisible. In fact, if any of us could potentially walk down the street with invisibility there is a lot we could get away with and a lot of trouble we could create. Having a physical identity in this world keeps us all in check, and that goes a lot deeper than just a government ID. [13:39] Ken continues, “My point is, on the internet- that kind of happened right? We have the ability to be invisible, we can bully people, we conceal stuff…” So in a lot of ways, complete privacy and anonymity are actually really unhealthy. [14:59] Bob tells us about a psychological term called the online disinhibition effect that means when we go online we become a different person, which helps to further disengage us from the ramifications of what we are saying and doing online. [16:10] Brad asks “Do you think that this privacy is different for different generations?” For example, would younger generations have a different grasp on internet privacy and not mind as much overreach, where older generations don’t think about the ramifications of posting on your vacation and letting the world know that your house is empty. [19:45] Bob “I think online privacy means you don’t want someone hacking into your account and taking your stuff. In other words, it’s the opposite of being left alone.” [20:48] Brad talks about privacy from a uniquely American perspective. There is a greater and deeper fear for a lot of people in the US that there is a larger government body at work that is looking to centralize everything, that this underground organization is looking to strip us of our God-given rights to freedom. [23:24] Brad continues, asking if this is what we’re seeing the beginnings of in China with the move to a centralized digital currency. [24:03] Bob talks about the “Us vs Them” mentality that is pervasive in the US, saying that often we consider ourselves the heroes and paint ourselves in the best light possible. He talks of another perspective, saying that sometimes it may be true that the government really has our best interests at heart. Some people who think this way are okay with their information being out there, because everyone else’s is too. [27:44] Bob “We have to be careful when we say we want privacy online when we really mean complete anonymity, which ultimately leads to an environment that I would argue is not healthy at all. I don’t want to engage with people that I don’t know who they are, where they are, what kind of people they are.” [28:45] Brad talks about the last 10 years of data collection that has taken place, only to have it suddenly stripped away and giving us even less information about who we’re marketing to. [29:14] Bob talks about human’s eagerness to believe that there is something behind the curtain pulling the strings, and how we are continually drawn to a worldview that supports that deep feeling. We live with an open- eyed awareness of the threats to us, evolution has served us all well. This awareness can be a strength but also can be very unhealthy. [30:13] Brad asks Bob about his ideal world of privacy “Ideally, what would you give and take? And what would that look like? How would you be able to control your own privacy so that you can give away as much as you want?” [30:48] Bob keeps it simple, saying “I opt toward common sense. Anything that you wouldn’t do in the real world, don’t do online.” He gives some basic advice for maintaining privacy in the real (non-online) world. Shred bank statements, don’t send your financial information via email, use your common sense and think about how you’d handle the same information in a digital format. [32:50] Brad talks about Apple’s efforts at maintaining privacy for their users with double encrypted messaging applications and the ability to use a uniquely created email instead of your personal email address. [33:50] Brad wonders what Facebook plans to do as laws and regulations around privacy change- when so much of their revenue comes directly from advertising and then the ability to advertise as well is diminished, where are they going to turn next? Brad has heard of Facebook’s intentions to move into the podcast space, which is a healthy diversification strategy for the times. [34:58] Bob encourages anyone who does believe that “Big Brother” is out to get them to ask themselves “Who is benefiting from me believing that?” If you can truly be honest with yourself and see that there is likely someone else who is pushing that narrative and benefiting from it. [36:08] Ken talks about the concept of complete anonymity, saying that ultimately there is no “Golden Rule” when it comes to internet privacy- there is no objective Privacy Truth. So it’s up to us to learn from our history, to maintain that balance of power and ensure that it does not go unchecked. We need to be protected in a reasonable way, and be aware of what we’re giving up and when we are giving it up. | |||
| 21 Apr 2022 | Ep 106: Live Marketing Workshop | 00:30:53 | |
Subtitle: Today we’re workshopping a real marketing problem, live. In this episode, we talk about various forms of marketing, other than Facebook, as all kinds of marketers have recently been facing struggles with targeted marketing. We break down unique platforms, diversification, mindset, branding, and more on this episode of Agency Exposed.
Summary: On today’s episode, we ‘get jiggy with it’ and do a mini marketing workshop. Due to recent increases in privacy regulations, marketers have had to deal with large decreases in targeted marketing. We believe that privacy is important, but suddenly removing a tool that has been relied on by marketers for years definitely poses a challenge. So, in this episode, we discuss the importance of diversifying your marketing platforms and offer some alternative ideas. It’s important to be prepared for the shutdown of a platform and to utilize the resources that are still available on those platforms. The right mindset and branding also play a critical role in marketing, and having both will only help you in the long run. Sometimes, it’s more about the quality than the quantity of your leads.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:33] Bob opens a Freestyle Friday episode with a brief chat about Yeti versus Ember mugs. [2:21] Bob begins a discussion about the advertising struggles that digital marketers are running into lately. [2:34] Brad breaks down the question, “What do you do when platforms start to take away abilities to market to certain audiences that you relied on for clients?” [5:39] Bob talks about some of the more unique platforms that he’s started using. “At the end of the day, when it comes to first party data, you just have to kind of just shift your whole mindset.” [9:47] Ken discusses diversification and asks, “What was it like before Facebook?” [12:14] Brad talks about how he views diversification in marketing as well as the importance of being prepared. “I look at this like a financial investment. Financially, you really want to diversify your investments.” [16:09] Bob discusses 3 marketing areas that he believes will grow in the next few years. [19:43] Bob talks about the importance of intentionally utilizing the retargeting that is available. [20:58] Ken discusses the effectiveness of branding and acknowledges that, “It's just a different mindset… it's really not about the volume of people. It's about the smaller number of high quality people, traffic, and leads that you get and really mining those.” [24:01] Bob mentions the marketing possibilities when partnering with influencers. [29:30] Bob says that, “We would love to hear from our listeners! I know that we've had a little glitch with Spotify that we fixed and we got all of our past episodes that were missing. So if you're listening to us and you've got some ideas on how to be more creative with your clients and digital ads, we'd love to hear from you. So reach out to us! You can click on the podcast and email us or just use #agencyexposedpodcast and we'll find you.” | |||
| 15 Jul 2020 | Ep 29: Media Buying is Broken (Part 1) | 00:55:43 | |
Summary: In our coronavirus world, more and more businesses are turning to agencies for digital advertising. But the old model of percent of ad spend has a TON of flaws. It’s misaligned with the client, it doesn’t account for creative creation, creative refreshes, platform differences, and the list goes on. With the core platforms like Facebook being commoditized left and right, there is an increasing need for agencies to communicate their unique value in the equation. In today’s episode we are diving into the broken service model of media buying as we begin to rethink it for our own companies.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:27] Bob introduces today’s episode: media buying. Gives a brief overview of media buying.
[3:18] Brad talks about his experience in traditional advertising.
[7:30] Brad continues: Savvy clients will try to negotiate and “nickel-and-dime” agencies over commission costs. They want to know exactly what it is that you’re doing with that 15%, but so much of what that is used for is difficult to explain and sort of nebulous to the client. [11:00] Ken: “Here’s the challenge I see with buying ads and that being your service offering… I think from the outside that is seen as a commodity…” [12:25] Brad: “I think the media buying for most clients see that as just a commodity task that isn’t creative.” [12:30] Ken: “The challenge is that it’s not a commodity- it’s seen as that. It presents a real challenge, because the question is how do you compete in a commodity market- you compete on price.” [12:47] Bob: “I’m convinced that things become a commodity when things become common and accessible…” Anyone with an internet connection can create and place a Facebook ad right now. That is a commodity. [14:07] Ken: Digital channels are making it easier by the day for anyone to launch those ads and do those kinds of things.
[15:48] Brad speaks about wrestling with this in his own agency. “What does that future look like when it comes to media buying and how should we charge the client for our time and energies for that?” [16:54] Bob talks about how much the purpose of advertising has changed. In the past, everybody was pretty much on the same page. “We’ve got a product to launch, create awareness, and we want people to buy the product.”
[18:30] Brad: “The initial strategy isn’t the heart and soul of your campaign. The heart and soul is tweaking that campaign and measuring the results and continuing to refine that campaign over time to get the best results. It’s the refining that takes time and measure and pitting two campaigns against each other, AB testing and looking at different language and looking at different audiences that are responding better. That’s really the heart and soul.”
[20:11] Ken: “How do you, as an agency, position and create a strategy that does not rely on the nuts and bolts and de-commoditize them as much as possible.” [21:45] Brad: “We try to educate our clients that there is a fee that is going to be an ongoing fee that you’re going to need because it’s not just start it and let it run by itself. There's actually a lot of work that goes into it, and we don’t want to do something for a client that doesn't allow us the money or the resources to be able to do that… because we know that that’s what’s going to get the end result.” [22:57] Ken recalls the last episode, where we talked about the idea of not having enough to create success. Knowing what you need in order to be successful is important. [24:01] Bob summarizes Ken and Brad’s point: “If you still want to do ad buying and you’re struggling with what to do, position yourself either within a niche that you know really really well, OR become an expert in testing and deciphering for the client.”
[25:45] Brad predicts that in the future, there will be other platforms that do what Facebook does. [26:15] Ken talks about how many apps are making it easier than ever to step in a become an expert. They want people to be able to set up an ad and walk away, but for an agency this means building value into the work you do- the daily upkeep of digital marketing is the future!
[30:02] Brad asks: What are the risks of buying media for an agency and where could you eliminate the risks?
[35:07] Bob speaks about how that mindset change is creating need for CRO experts, people who can increase conversion rates by 2%, 10%.... They’re looking for specialists and agencies who can get them across that finish line.
[37:22] Brad speaks about “programmatic marketing.” [37:45] Ken talks about how Metacake is moving away from the traditional media buying model.
[39:47] Brad asks for some insight into what Ken charges initially and what is covered in that cost. There is so much work in the forefront for many companies that has to be done, branding-wise. So that process is built in 100% [43:11] Brad: You can drive a ton of people down a specific funnel, but if the infrastructure isn’t set up it’s like the catcher having a hole in his glove. There are things that need to be resolved and fixed… “Restructuring, redoing their customer journey, refining their ecom platform because it’s confusing.”
[45:10] Ken speaks about how clients will sometimes step into the process and confuse the optimization process- educating away from this tendency is valuable. [46:38] Brad speaks about how many campaigns are based on just getting people to a website or a landing page, but not taking actual action. Knowing the cost of true customer acquisition is important- many clients would not know this because their agency didn’t tell them it was important. [48:05] Ken brings up another point of education: Not every campaign is meant to sell things, some are just focused on awareness. [50:46] Brad talks about the difference between different ads and how important it is to let your clients know what it is that they need and the real work that is involved. [51:32] Bob: “That’s the value that agencies should be bringing- Depending on what your budget is, what is the correct strategy to help you be successful?” [52:01] Ken stresses the importance of educating potential clients of what they actually need to be successful. “What are you trying to do? What stage are you at and what are some of the things around your business…. What budget do you have and what are your expectations?”
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| 26 Jan 2022 | Ep 98: Spend your time on what matters | 00:46:13 | |
Subtitle: Time… it’s our most limited resource. The older you get, the more you’re responsible for, the more goals you have, THE MORE IMPORTANT IT IS to be intentional with what you spend your time on. You can’t get everything done, so how do you make sure you get the highest impact things done (ps - not the most urgent things)? And inevitably, you can’t get everything done, so how do you be intentional about what DOESN’T get done? We dig into how to make the biggest impact with your time in this episode.
Summary: On today’s episode we talk about how we spend our time on what matters. In order to do that, you first need to identify a few key things about yourself. It’s also important to remember that although many situations in the agency world may seem like emergencies, real emergencies are rare, and freaking out won’t help. Time management is not solely for business but rather it should be a part of all aspects of your life. Mindset and intentionality also play a big role in making time for tasks that may not be urgent, but are still important. We also discuss some of the practical tools we use for time management and prioritizing tasks. Time management is important, so let’s make it a priority for 2022.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens the first episode of 2022 by asking the guys about how their years ended. [3:52] Ken introduces this episode’s topic. “I think it's a good thing to rethink stuff. I know for me, it's like how do I spend my time, money, and resources more wisely, and do a better job this year?” [5:06] Brad talks about one of his challenges with time management and asks the guys how they resolve their time management challenges. “One of my biggest challenges with time is that I've always got a squeaky wheel somewhere and it takes me away from what I need to be doing. That's probably my biggest frustration with time management. And I'd like to hear a little bit about how you guys get around that” [7:01] Ken discusses a question he was asked that helps him prioritize. “What do you want to dedicate your life to? When it comes down to all the urgent things that come up, do you want to look back and have regrets? What do you want your life to be?” [10:07] Ken talks about how often the “emergencies” in the business world aren’t real emergencies and how he has trained himself and his team to respond to those situations. “Freaking out, is not gonna help. You do what you can do, and you do it with a calm mind.” [11:10] Bob mentions the importance of understanding yourself and how you function in order to achieve your goals for time management. [14:10] Brad talks about how time management isn’t solely for business, but rather, “Your time management is really important to what you want your life to be as a whole, not just your business.” [17:28] Brad asks the guys, “I feel like I wasted a lot of time. How do you guys deal with that?” [18:58] Ken talks about the importance of being intentional about prioritizing tasks and having accountability to put some skin in the game. [22:01] Brad discusses how he tries to protect his time and how that stems from his personality type. [23:17] Bob talks about the challenges of protecting your time, “not just for yourself, but from other people in an agency world. There is a tyranny of urgency, not just in your own brain and anxiety, but your staff, your clients, everybody's pulling, saying, hey, I need this yesterday” [23:54] Ken talks about what he’s done to create a culture of de-urgency in his business. “Freaking out helps zero people, right?” [27:32] Bob asks the guys what practical tools they use for time management. [27:38] Ken says that one of the biggest tools for himself is a coach. He also talks about how he uses the Eisenhower matrix to prioritize tasks. [32:57] Ken talks about how, “The reality is, there has to be some sacrifice.” [33:25] Brad discusses his project and time management tool, Asana. [36:11] Ken talks about how to plan tasks according to your creative flow. “You have to know what time of day so then you can know how to time block your weeks.” [39:44] Bob talks about the impact consistency and your daily morning ritual can have on your time management. [42:44] Ken mentions a cycle by John Ortberg that describes how time management usually fails and how he breaks it. “It starts with over commitment, and then it goes into fatigue, and then it goes into guilt and shame, and then that goes into quitting.” [44:17] Ken wraps up by talking about how he uses his business’s morning standup to “help align everybody else around what they're supposed to be doing that day, rather than just leaving it to chance so it's more like a team game plan.” | |||
| 06 May 2020 | Ep 19: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 7): Will doing business actually improve after the initial impact of our economic crisis passes? [2 MONTH CHECK-IN] | 00:50:05 | |
Summary: Today’s episode is Part 8 of our COVID-19 / Corona series, where we’re uncovering the good in the current situation. We’ve had some amazing guests over the weeks and have some amazing ones coming in the next episodes. Today, we sit down to do a 2 month check-in check-in, focusing on questions like: What are we seeing, feeling, and observing in our clients and in our own businesses? What are our takeaways so far? How has it changed people? How has it changed business and marketing? How long will it last? What does the NEW normal look like?
Owning an agency or service business can be a roller coaster of changes and pivots, and now more than ever the value that you can provide is at the forefront. For all businesses, and your clients - every dollar counts. But is that a bad thing? Is there more competition or less because “match” is more important now than ever.
We talk about moving your business away from commoditization and instead focusing on the value of your experience and expertise. How can you provide concrete evidence of that value to clients? And how can you come alongside them as a coach to lean into this period of growth?
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:00] Bob introduces the episode with a wrap-up of our Covid episodes so far- we’ve covered how to survive, thrive, diversify. He asks what Brad and Ken think the world will look like, business-wise, after this pandemic. What are we seeing, feeling, observing in our clients and in our own businesses? What are our takeaways? How has it changed people? What is the landscape going to look like and what do we need to consider. [3:20] Ken speaks on the “reset” that is happening amongst his colleagues and within his own business. Having done business through the recession of 2008 and experiencing this as well, the cyclical nature of the economy is very apparent. Two months ago a reset was hard to imagine, with nothing but blue skies on the horizon.
[5:16] Ken: “As painful as a reset is, I think that pullback brings us back to the fundamentals of what is really important, brings us back to human beings, humbles us all- including the marketplace in a way that is advantageous to people that are genuine and businesses who are in it for the right reasons… if you have those qualities it’s easier to connect with people who really need what you have to offer.” [6:03] Brad asks Ken for a picture of what the future looks like as far as engaging in new business/ onboarding. [6:35] Ken: “Agencies tend to fall into the category of all being the same… that makes it easier to be identified by potential clients… But really that’s not what makes you unique, what makes you unique is what will make them choose you.” [7:38] Ken continues: “I believe that there’s gonna be more need to find the right match that gets the right results on the client side AND the agency side, because there’s less room for messing around… even time. Nobody likes spending money and it not work, but now, time is important.”
[9:47] Bob recalls the early 2000’s when digital marketing was new, there is a similar reset. Back then, services were becoming commoditized so that everyone could do them.
[11:33] Bob continues: “People are like, I need an expert now. I need to build and create something that’s going to stand the test of time, that’s going to generate revenue smarter for me, maybe faster. Not with tactics, but with real expertise.”
[12:26] Brad recalls our last podcast guest Daniel Cobb and the analogy he made between being a tool versus the whole toolbox. Many agencies focus on being just a hammer, but he views his agency as the entire toolbox. [13:45] Brad asks for further thoughts from the guys “If you rethink your agency model, do you now hire different people, do you rethink your team?” [14:10] Ken responds that those who are becoming commodities shouldn’t necessarily fight that.
[17:02] Ken continues: “What is your value that you can add regardless of if it’s easy or if it’s hard?” [17:42] Brad speaks about his agency and the way that they do business. They definitely sell commodities but ultimately strategy is the biggest value that they offer. Having a seat the strategy table is vital, otherwise they are taken out by other companies that have commoditized differently/better. [19:02] Brad adds that “If there is an opportunity, I always like to show a monetary return on investment, because if you don’t do that, that's where you become a commoditized business that is being told what to do, versus truly adding value.”
[22:07] Bob adds “Solid case studies and examples are going to be gold.” You’ll have clients asking for proof of that and see it in a document. “It's too easy to claim ownership when campaigns are successful, and it’s too easy to blame other things when it’s not successful.”
[23:45] Brad: “Being a creative agency is great but creativity now is becoming a commodity.”
[25:18] Bob: “I think honesty and authenticity are going to be held to a much higher value.”
[27:41] Ken: “None of us can guarantee results… you don’t own the product, the company, you can’t tell the future… Your job as an agency is to lead in the expertise that you have and challenge the beliefs appropriately so that you get your clients in the right place…. Like a coach. A coach can’t win the game for you, he can’t play for you. He can only stand alongside you with the expertise that he has, help get you ready, help train you… to help you win. But YOU still have to win.” [30:00] Ken continues: “How do you educate based on changing market conditions to be investing in the right things that don't produce immediate ROI but do produce a long term ROI, AND find the short term wins?”
[31:24] Brad expresses curiosity for the next 6 months- will clients be more nitpicky about pricing? Will pricing models change, will we have to go back to the drawing boards? [32:00] Ken speaks on pricing strategy and how moving away from being the “cheapest” model to a value-based model. Hanging your hat on that model for business is not a strategy to long-term growth and survival. [34:45] Bob adds that this ties back into the concept of having a “why” that is deeper and more valuable than just earning money.
[37:50] Bob speaks about how to survive through this: “Being an expert, showing we’ve done it before, caring about ROI above everything… and it’s really important to lead with value and why we’re doing it, and having strong philosophies.” [40:00] Ken talks about the other side of making those pivots and truly surviving through this: “On the other side of that now you’ve got a really distilled idea of who you are and why you’re so valuable… through that, it’s easier to sell.”
[40:55] Ken quotes Tony Robbins: “To succeed in business, it’s pretty simple. You just need to provide more value than anyone else.” This is relevant to today more than ever, and doesn’t necessarily mean adding more time or cost, but instead asking yourself “How can I create the most valuable offering in the most efficient way.” [42:16] Bob predicts that laying people off may bring more efficient business practices internally. Letting go of 4 or 5 employees may be more efficient than hiring an outside partner to help with those services.
[43:40] Brad adds: “This will be an opportunity for clients to shop around… as we’re rethinking our businesses, customers are rethinking what they need… you may have a lot more customers who are looking for long term partners.” [45:05] Ken speaks on the power of not only weathering the storm, but looking for the opportunities to thrive through it. “It won’t go back to the way it was, it’s going to go forward to something new… noone knows what that is… everyone’s at the starting line again. In some ways, it has re-leveled the playing field, creating advantages that people didn’t have before.” [46:29] Brad: “Customers are going to look for companies who can support them… not those who are outsourcing pieces of the pie, but a well-oiled machine that can take them on.”
[48:15] Bob adds that ultimately, none of us know for sure. Nothing will be the same, things have shaken out the way they need to and ultimately there are a lot of opportunities for those businesses that are thinking about bringing value and expertise. This is a great time to be learning, a great time to start with a high level of value and knowledge instead of just trying to be the cheapest commodity and grab business where you can. | |||
| 10 Mar 2021 | Ep 63: Are RFPs a Waste of Time? | 00:57:37 | |
Summary: In this week’s episode, we discuss RFPs and how each of our agencies approach them. We talk about investigating whether an RFP is worth your time or not; we share our own experiences with assessing RFPs and guiding potential clients toward a better plan of action; we talk about speaking to clients’ needs in a way that inspires them; and we also share our framework for not just meeting RFP requirements, but creating a genuine connection and cultivating real relationships with potential clients.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob welcomes us to the show and introduces today’s topic: RFPs or requests for proposal. [3:37] Ken says that Metacake gets around 10 a year, and that it’s not something they rely on to get business. [3:56] Brad’s agency gets roughly 70% of new business without RFPs, and the clients that do bring them are typically larger companies. [4:52] Bob defines RFP for us and gives a brief history. “In the late 1880s, industrialism standardized the productions of goods and accelerated communication between businesses… made it possible for businesses to solicit from vendors… included questions to help the buyer evaluate and compare each supplier’s offering.” [7:10] Bob continues. RFPs can be 50 or 100 pages long, and contain a breakdown of every step of every part of your process. There can be questions about examples of work done in the past, referrals, and typically they want it written in a specific format. Long story short: they’re term papers! [8:00] Brad says that RFPs usually boil down to figuring out how an agency thinks. [8:57] Brad talks about how the need for RFPs has changed over time, and often companies want a more straightforward financial estimate than anything else—a more generalized document than the 100-page assignments of the past. The time wasted for marketing managers to write these massive documents is a waste of time and manpower in itself. [10:09] Ken talks about the “apples to apples” comparison of RFPs, saying that there really is no way to compare one company or agency against the next. This makes the review of RFPs more about discernment—and most of them are just written wrong, in his opinion. [12:18] Brad talks about the RFPs that attempt to plan out a two-year contract with an agency. In reality, you want to be able to pivot when you enter into an agreement with someone. And so for many agencies, RFPs are a risk to take on. [13:49] Bob says that some companies and agencies have divisions that do nothing but respond to RFPs. [14:37] Brad says that if an agency’s clients are mostly Fortune 500 companies, they are more likely doing a lot more RFPs. [15:02] Bob asks Brad and Ken about tactics they use that can either minimize the process or ensure that they have a greater chance over some competitors that are out there. [15:20] Ken says that Metacake doesn’t consider RFPs an efficient use of their time. Often due to the quality of the document, it is clear that more communication is going to be needed other than the RFP. [18:14] Brad talks about two types of RFPs—the ones that he values and the ones that he doesn’t. Often the ones that aren’t super valuable have a lot of get-to-know-you questions, whereas the valuable ones have data and information about the project, technical requirements that give real insight into the cost of the project. [19:39] Ken counters that even when they are specific, because you have already decided on the method before you’ve decided on the strategy, there is a built-in challenge in communication.
[20:18] Ken continues, saying that if you don’t have a unique backdoor channel or even an inkling that the RFP is merely a formality, you are likely on a fool’s errand. Because otherwise you’ve caught yourself in a comparison game against 10 others that they are rationalizing to choose the one that they want. [21:38] Brad says that there is a good way gauge whether the RFP is worth your time or not to review: are their questions written in a way that you can actually respect those questions and understand that you as a client are going to let us do what we do? [23:05] Ken says that going about these conversations can be challenging to do while also building rapport and not coming off as sleazy. But by maintaining you professionalism and being really confident at what you do, you can usually figure out whether something is a good fit relatively quickly. [24:12] Bob suggests a personal Zoom call or in-person meeting, where you can discuss additional concerns that the RFP didn’t address. If you really do want to work with the company, genuinely reaching out to make that connection can go far. [27:01] Ken says that Metacake stopped doing RFPs. “We'll work with anyone that wants to work with this, as long as they're the right fit, and we're the right fit, and we can add value… we’ll build a proposal, but we won’t build it through an RFP method.” [27:54] Ken explains further that they bill for a meeting where the basics of an RFP are laid out, they work on strategy in-person and build that RFP out for them that they can then take to other agencies. This gives Metacake the opportunity to build relationships, learn more about the company, build that trust and understanding and then make it obvious that working to put the RFP to use with Metacake is the best option. [31:05] Brad asks Ken about his experience with RFPs and what specific details he’s looking for that would make him feel comfortable about the RFPs requirements. [32:14] Ken responds. “So that's why we say we don't work through the RFP method, we'll get the RFP, we'll validate it, we'll build you a project plan. But typically, we get paid to do that.” [36:04] Bob says that in the past he’s gotten emails from people who’ve sent RFPs but in reality they have already decided to use his services. [39:06] Bob talks about an RFP from a non-profit that was received by his agency recently. They spoke to the company and found out that they were genuinely interested in an agency but had no idea where to start. Their search was genuine and unbiased, so after chatting, Bob decided it was worth his time to create a short-form RFP for them and do some great digging for them to fill that need. [40:20] Brad says that he has come across great RFPs with genuine responses and questions. [42:39] Brad continues, saying that it’s okay to bail out of the RFPs response after a bit of back and forth. You want to be able to best serve their clients in the best way possible, and if you can’t gauge that after meeting in person and discussing details, it’s okay to back off and say that it won’t be a great fit. [43:47] Ken ties in the theme of “you can be the cheapest, the best, or the only” to RFPs as well. You don’t want to be the cheapest, as it’s hard to win that way. How do you become the only one, truly because you are the best?
[45:19] Bob says that it can be difficult to convince someone that you are really the only option they have to get what they’re looking for. You can say, “Well we don’t do that, but we can give you something better and here’s the price you’d pay.” He clarifies Ken’s tactic: to prove that you’re better than the RFP in what you can provide without criticizing their method. [47:33] Ken says that what is lacking in most RFPs is the goal—a clear, uniform goal for what is actually going to be done in a project. [48:14] Brad says that he sees 15-20% of clients who use an RFP to work with an agency who will realize a couple months into the project that they didn’t choose the right agency. [49:20] Ken says that from a client perspective, if you can pay an agency to help you come up with a plan, go for it. Because THEY are the ones who are experts, and if you pay good people, you’ll get good work! [53:30] Ken continues, saying that for many service providers, RFPs can be a fool’s errand. Meaning that choosing a partner based purely on RFPs will rob you of a lot of authenticity and real connection with a service provider or client that is RIGHT. [54:29] Bob talks about the cost effectiveness of having a long-term client versus constantly having an influx of new clients. | |||
| 04 Mar 2020 | Ep 10: Do you Operate in Fear or in Truth? | 01:01:57 | |
Summary: Fear - the most detrimental emotion. What’s worse is making decisions in this irrational state. Yet so many people live and operate in this state daily. In business and in life, there is no shortage of things to incite fear. As an agency leader, you know more than most about the dangers of fear-based decision making. Honestly, most days you probably feel like King Solomon… “cut the baby in half!”. Balancing demanding clients, financial challenges, personnel issues, taxes, accounting, market shifts, and about 1 million other situations while inspiring an encouraging and transparent office culture that inspires great work on a high level can seem impossible. Well, it turns out leadership is not for the faint of heart. It’s downright hard. This is no easy task, and there is A LOT of room for fear to sneak in and sabotage your decisions. How can you create the financial stability that your business needs without turning off clients or putting your personal finances in jeopardy? Where do you turn when your brain is stuck in a state of unreality? We get vulnerable about some of our fears. We dive into strategies we have learned for coping with this pressure and what has given us the most relief and encouragement through this process.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:25] Bob: “We wanted to talk today about fear, anxiety, and not being controlled by it… How does it control you in the business situation, for those of us who are running agencies, work at agencies, engaged with agencies, whoever you are…” [2:06] Bob: I failed at this miserably in my business and I was driven by fear many times and made a lot of bad decisions that cost my business, myself, my people that work for me… I learned a ton, I am thankful for that… I know I was not alone, even though I felt like I was.”
[2:57] Brad relates fear in business with thinking about the unknown.
[3:25] Brad: “I can’t control whether a client decides to do something different and no longer wants to work with us… or if the economy tanks and we go through a recession and people quit spending, I can’t control a lot of that… from the unknown.”
[4:10] Ken speaks about how not making fear-based decisions is a core personal value.
[5:07] Ken asks: “Have you ever made a really good decision based in fear? Probably not… How many things have you NOT done out of fear? Because fear is one of those emotions that actually stops you- it’s used strategically sometimes in the marketplace to stop you from doing something.”
[5:50] Ken: “I don’t think anyone can control their fear… that’s a hard thing to do. What you can do is be aware of it and once you’re aware of it you can manage it appropriately. That takes a lot of conditioning… it’s like a muscle, not like a switch that you flip on an off, but a willpower that you build up over time.” [6:25] Bob: “I think we should talk briefly about some of the psychology around it… one of the most helpful things for me is understanding that your brain doesn’t know if something is really happening or not. It’s all about what your senses are, what you’re thinking and feeling, and then your brain acts accordingly. And so that’s where fear can paralyze us as business owners.”
[7:55] Bob tells us a story about a new VR game that simulates falling off of a building, and relates it to the idea that your brain doesn't know what’s real or not- you know you’re safe but your body still produces the adrenaline and sensation of falling.
[8:54] Brad adds: “If you have fear, you’ve somehow experienced something similar in the past where it wasn’t a positive thing. So the more you can overcome the fear and go through experiences and see the positive outcome, the next time you go through that, it’s not going to be so fearful.”
[9:52] Brad: “If the worst were to happen, you might have to go through a little bit of hardship, but comparable to other people in this world, all three of us have it made. So it’s this attitude of gratefulness that we’re grateful for what we have and that we really don’t need all that much to be beautiful human beings.” [10:33] Brad continues: “For me, it’s a constant battle with myself of really, how should I react to this and how can I have a sound mind going into this so that I know I’ll be clear-headed through the process where I’m not owning that fear to the point where it becomes unrealistic.” [10:57] Ken: “I think that’s an important aspect of combating fear is identifying the source of information that’s creating the fear in you… Seeking truth is really important right? In business and in life… Can you trust opinion? Are your interests aligned with the people that are giving you those opinions?”
[13:00] Bob adds: “The only person that has your best interest at heart concerning your mental wellbeing is you.”
[13:53] Bob: “Don’t isolate yourself- talk about your fears… As a business owner you carry so much internally… those narratives can go to some pretty crazy places in your head… Sit down with trusted friends and advisors to talk them through.” [14:34] Brad speaks on when he feels the most fear. When there’s already a lot going on in your business and you’re already running on low fuel, the fear and anxiety can really take over. So it’s important to take a look at your calendar and start removing the things that aren’t necessary, to give yourself space to think clearly.
[16:15] Ken speaks on how intentional you have to be with this- taking care of yourself and your body has to become an initiative in your life. [18:00] Ken: “Whether you like it or not, you're in that position where you need to come prepared, be conditioned to lead your organization appropriately. That’s just the role you’re in… and you have to accept that. And once you do, it’s like okay that means I have to live a life that has these qualities to it because I need to be conditioned.” [18:46] Brad: “It’s really hard to lead a company when you’re just reactive.”
[20:10] Brad speaks on the power a client has to put additional pressure on a team, and how important it is to communicate with the client early on to put more demands on how they will work with you.
[21:41] Bob asks the guys to speak on the “guard rails” that they keep in place to keep them on a healthy track.
[22:24] Ken: “I believe the business world has some potentially fatal, or sort of toxic relationships that happen, or modes of operation…. They don’t come from a bad place, they’re almost accepted.” [24:43] Ken speaks about the way Metacake approaches client relationships “Hey, we want to be able to serve your and over-deliver with the value that we create… we have to be extremely excited at the end of whatever we do. And the only way we can do that is if we can focus on that and not have to worry about being paid.” [25:45] Bob: “That comes down to processes right? So a clear statement of work, clear agreements… not just that you create them and your clients sign them, but that you go through a reading process and an understanding of what hours you work, when, how you communicate, what’s expected from them.” [28:02] Ken: “I think that it’s important to challenge traditions appropriately, to make sure they’re actually done in healthy ways.” [28:15] Bob asks Ken how Metacake figured out how to solve the billing issues that plague a lot of agencies. [28:36] Ken was told by a mentor that the #1 threat to your existence is cash flow.
[31:15] Ken continues: We wanted to solve the cash flow issue… we went to electronic payments and split the payments appropriately over the months of the engagement. So whether that’s a retainer or whether that’s a project, we just spread it out sort of evenly.” [32:53] Bob asks Ken how long it took Metacake to transition away from the traditional pay structure of agencies. [34:15] Brad speaks on the pain of back and forth to get payment from some clients, and how much time, energy, and attention that this process that take/waste. [35:00] Ken adds that when you’re in this back and forth with a client, it’s a big and important unknown detail that you’re not in control of- and THIS allows fear into the equation immediately.
[39:23 ] Bob asks Brad: “What about Anthem Republic? What are some key things that have eliminated fear and anxiety for you?” [39:38] Brad responds: Service agreements that have more guidelines and guardrails, early communication.
[42:50] Ken adds: “That’s one area I think most business owners may or may not be first in… but either you’re really versed in it or you have no clue… Should you have a financial advisor?” [43:09] Brad: “A business owner has to be financially healthy in order for the business to be healthy financially. [44:33] Ken: “You being healthy first is the only way that you can lead a company that makes everyone else healthy.” [44:37] Brad: “And that helps me as well with my fear personally. If I feel as a whole, I’m okay, for the time being, then even if my business feels like it’s struggling or you feel like you might be losing a client or some financial resources… it’s not 2 ships that are sinking, right? And that helps alleviate some of that pressure for me.” [45:14] Bob asks: “If you are working on yourself and you want that to permeate your atmosphere at work as well? Do you guys provide any opportunities for your staff? Because they might be internalizing a lot of this themselves, right?” [47:22] Brad: “The challenge is how to you be transparent with employees so they understand.” [48:13] Ken responds: “I believe fear is spread so easily and it’s almost like as human beings, it’s like we want to spread it… for a lot of people it’s sorta like gossip or anything else, maybe it helps us feel better… but as a business leader, it’s not rational.”
[51:07] Bob asks about the way The Guys deal with anxiety and fear personally. “I know for me, I’m learning how to be present and breathe in those situations… Do you realize how shallow your breathing becomes when you are doing this kind of stuff?” [52:21] Brad adds that turning back to scripture is incredibly helpful. That and “having a heart of gratefulness… to look at everything I do have and not what I will lose.”
[53:55] Ken speaks on how there was fear in his formative years concerning immediate safety, so he realized early on that the only way to take control of that fear is through seeking health in every aspect of his life: mentally, spiritually, physically.
[56:58] Ken: “I don’t think God has fear for you- I don’t think that comes from God… and you might even say that faith and fear can’t coexist.”
[58:34] Bob speaks on how releasing responsibility can be freeing- “I’m only responsible for me, not my employee’s lives or clients lives. And I’m not responsible for the way my clients feel about me or how they respond to me. My job is to know that what I’m doing is the right thing to do.” | |||
| 01 Dec 2021 | Ep 95: How will the Metaverse change business? | 00:50:37 | |
Summary: On today’s episode we talk about the metaverse and predict what we think it is, what it does, and how business will change because of it. We discuss the differences between VR headsets versus Apple glasses as well as some of the ethics behind integration of technology into the human body. Technology has grown tremendously in the past 20 years, and if it continues along its growth pattern, the Metaverse is not far away. We believe that failure is a key part of success, but it’s hard to fail when all the answers are at your fingertips. This is why we believe it’s important to reject the silver platter of technology to find your own answers to solve problems. The metaverse is exciting yet unknown, so prepare your business the best you can, and be intentional with and aware of technology and its dangers.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:48] Brad opens this episode by asking the guys about their holiday plans. [4:15] Bob begins a discussion about this week’s topic, the Metaverse, and how it, “really is internet 3.0.” [4:46] Brad talks about how the metaverse could promote isolation and selfishness. [5:15] Bob makes a prediction about what he believes the metaverse will look like. “It's more augmented reality mixed with reality. That's the future. But maybe we'll get to a time where there’s a true Metaverse of alternate reality. [6:12] Bob discusses VR headsets and why he does not think they’re the future. [6:56] Brad talks about an alternative to VR, the Apple glasses. [10:36] Ken contemplates the fascinating and complex ethics behind technology integration into the human body. [12:17] Brad talks about how technology has grown over the past 20 years, and considers the damage technology can do. “Honestly, are we damaging a lot more of ourselves right now?” [14:11] Bob asks, “How are we as business people gonna push toward more ethical use of it?” [24:51] Ken talks about his predictions for the metaverse. [26:15] Brad discusses more possibilities for the Metaverse. “It’s not gonna be a game like Ready Player One. The real Metaverse is going to be something where you live your daily life, and there's more technology that gives you insight and connection somehow.” [27:49] Bob connects the idea of the Metaverse to history and writing books. “This idea of outsourcing your brain. This argument has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years.” [28:36] Ken talks about the importance of rejecting the silver platter to continue to learn and grow from doing hard things. [34:18] Bob asks, “at what point does technology make us less human?” [36:17] Brad talks about how self discipline with technology starts with families. [38:21] Bob discusses how, “Portugal passed a law. It is illegal for an employer to contact, email, and call an employee after work hours.” This prioritizes people over technology and business. [42:31] Ken talks about the importance of being intentional with your boundaries and using systems to avoid emergencies. [46:44] Ken considers the moral challenges of marketing on online platforms. “The reason it's harder now, is we have not only our own experience, we have hard data that says that these things hurt people.” | |||
| 21 Jul 2021 | Ep 81: The Dangers of being a Lonely Leader | 00:36:11 | |
Summary: Today we discuss the lonely aspect of being a business owner or leader and some ways to prevent it. It’s a real problem. One way to fight it is to get into a group and have mentors. Whether it’s a mastermind group, or the Agency Exposed community, escaping isolation is key. We also discuss the challenges of firing in a small business, the balance in discussing business matters with employees, and how the ideal business owner model has changed over time. Although being an agency owner can be lonely and comes with many heavy responsibilities, it’s worth it all in the end.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:42] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about the locations of agencies that listen to this podcast. [3:39] Bob begins a conversation about the pros, cons, and struggles of being an agency owner. [5:12] Brad talks about how lonely being a business owner can be. “When you're the business owner, or even if you have partners, I'm sure you still feel at times, very alone.” [7:26] Ken discusses the heavy responsibilities many business owners have and feel the impact from. “You do have a certain responsibility but the buck doesn't stop with you.” “Everyone brings you problems and there's no one that you can bring your problems to.” [8:32] Brad talks about the emotional challenges of hiring and firing within a small business. [10:04] Bob discusses the difficult balance between being empathetic and doing what’s best for business. [12:10] Brad compares how a large corporation fires and talks about what he tries to do differently. [13:32] Ken points out that firing is “not about you. It's about protecting the thing you've been put in charge of, but doing it in a kind way.” [15:24] Brad talks about the balance there is when discussing business matters with employees. [17:17] Brad says that because no one understands his business on the level that he does, he feels, “like nobody gets me.” [19:38] Brad chats about how every so often, he’ll get a call from a client. Typically it’s about something they needed done that hasn’t been done yet. Brad breaks down how he deals with those kinds of responsibilities as a leader. “I always go for the win win” [23:33] Ken mentions some of the factors that contribute to the loneliness of being a business owner. “There are times when you have to swallow things that don't feel good, and I think that contributes to that feeling.” [24:14] Bob advises all leaders, “Don't isolate yourself.” [27:05] Ken talks about how he reminds himself to have sympathy and empathy for others and how everyone makes unintentional mistakes. “I believe that everyone I meet, are trying their best, but they seem like they've gotten to the end of their rope” [28:38] Brad talks about how the ideal business owner model has evolved. “I feel more like a motor, and I'm just one part of it, versus being lonely at the top.” [30:27] Bob gives a brief summary of the book, The Five Dysfunctions of Team. [31:19] Ken wraps up this week’s episode with some tips for leaders who are dealing with loneliness. “I want to be the voice, that's not the criticism voice and hopefully the little drop of water in the desert.” | |||
| 06 Jan 2021 | Ep 54: New Year, New Word: What’s your theme for 2021? [New Year Special] | 00:39:44 | |
Summary: Happy New Year! Good riddance! See ya 2020! Today we are breaking down our themes for 2021 and how they were shaped in part from the events of this year. We all know there have been challenges and learning curves, major lessons learned, losses, and new opportunities. Today we talk about everything from breathing techniques to reorienting your brain to see opportunity instead of limitations- and that mindset shift is vital to entering into the New Year from a place of power and positivity. Let’s move into 2021 with intention and excitement no matter what your situation.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:51] Bob reminds us that last year The Guys each chose a word to be the theme and focus of 2020- today we’re sharing our words (or phrases) for 2021. [1:44] Brad’s word for 2021 is “A New Hope”- he speaks about hope for the economy, for a vaccine, for a stronger America in 2021. [4:35] Ken says that towards the end of tragedy or illness, sickness, loss, etc- there is always renewal and hope. [5:35] Bob’s word (phrase) is “re-imagined growth”. Every living organism on earth grows, but in 2021 Bob wants to reimagine what that growth means. Growth can be passive or active and as human beings we can be resistant to that active growth. When you have a goal of wanting things to look different that active vs passive growth makes all the difference. [8:59] Ken talks about how Bob’s mentality often looks forward and moves more quickly to letting go of the past and moving forward- that’s an admirable quality for sure.
[12:17] Bob recalls a quote “We understand our lives in reverse, but we have to live them forward.” While it’s healthy to review your year, to review your choices and actions so as to prevent a mistake in the future, it’s not healthy to stay with those feelings of regret. [14:15] Brad shares that he wants to work on trusting his gut more this year, as a personal resolution of sorts. [17:43] Ken shares his personal word/phrase for 2021, Clarity. The emergency state of 2021 was like a box that got emptied out and now things need to be reorganized and reoriented. Where businesses may have been running triage for 10 months. [21:55] Ken’s word for Metacake in 2021 is Strong. He talks endurance and the power of focusing on strength as a business. [23:31] Ken speaks to the importance of staying strong- introduces Metacake’s phrase for the year. “Winter is my Season.” [25:18] Ken talks about Wim Hoff, a Dutch extreme athlete known for his ability to withstand freezing temperatures. He has broken ALL of the rules in science for what humans are capable of surviving, and focuses on breathing for regulating his mind and body responses. [27:51] Ken shares his relationship with winter- not a fan in general. But that’s the reason for this phrase- not only that you can do hard things, but that you can embrace hard things. [30:56] Bob rephrases what Ken is sharing- it is possible to reorient your brain towards positivity and opportunity. [31:58] Ken asks- what if you enjoyed the process of failure? How can you find joy in your life if most of what you’re doing is failure- reorient your mind around what that means.
[34:13] Brad recalls having Covid and how the experience of having it gave him a sense of confidence because now he’s been through it. [36:17] Bob winds down this episode with a suggestion- when you’re in a situation where something bad is happening to you and not necessarily other people, you can ask yourself “What can I learn from this? How can I be better for this?” And then perhaps you’re actually happy it’s happening to you- if you can own that situation and decide that you’re grateful for it and the opportunity to learn, then you’re not wasting your time or energy. [37:32] Ken explains that the other side of “Winter is my Season” is in the results of the belief- if you can take advantage of the winter that is coming, then winter is always your season! The other side of the phrase is an energizing thing! | |||
| 11 Aug 2021 | Ep 84: How to be happy even when people are jerks ;) | 00:50:05 | |
Summary: Today we talk about the challenges of working with difficult clients or just simply not getting the feedback you expected from the people you serve. Unfortunately, as service providers we can’t control the happiness of the people we serve. We can only control our own actions - the work we do and the way we respond. Our first tip is to try to be empathetic. It seems a bit cheesy and retaliation is definitely easier, but remember that you only know a small part of their story and that inner struggles from other parts of life often reflect into everything else. Another key character trait is confidence. Remember how your English teacher in high school would underline your mistakes in red and would not circle the good parts in green? At times, feedback from clients can be similar. Don’t get discouraged and as you grow, your confidence will too. Finally, remember to prioritize your mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health. Because we work in the service business, the last person we think to serve is ourselves. This is toxic and can only lead to personal damage and damage to your agency.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:05] Ken opens this week’s episode with a brief chat about the guys’ summer vacations. [3:59] Ken begins today’s discussion about how to deal with clients who seem ungrateful or rude. “In the service industry sometimes you do a good job and someone's having a bad day or there's just a bad personality or whatever and that person's a jerk on the other side. And you can feel like garbage” [5:42] Brad talks about the desire for positive feedback; especially for those with a pleaser personality in the service industry. “When you're in the service industry, you want positive feedback on a positive feedback loop. When you don't get that from a client, it's really difficult. It can make you feel depressed, it can make you feel like you're not doing a great job.” [8:25] Ken asks “How do you move to where you're happy with the job that you did no matter what?” [10:26] Bob discusses the importance of prioritizing your mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health. “Put your own oxygen mask on first.” [16:35] Ken talks about the challenge of being intentional when prioritizing your personal health. “Be really intentional about those things.” [19:18] Bob talks about the importance and power empathy has. “Empathy is a superpower.” [20:25] Bob makes the point that no one “Gets up and says, I'm going to be a jerk and mean to everybody today” [24:05] Ken talks about the balance that is required when leading your team through a challenging client situation. [26:09] Brad discusses two of the practical ways he and his team deal with these situations. [28:27] Bob acknowledges that inner struggles often reflect into business and other aspects of life. “Yes, I will take ownership and responsibility if I've dropped the ball. But the way that person responds, engages, or the tone he sets is not about anything else than what's going on inside.” [30:31] Brad talks about how cultural and communication differences can suggest dissatisfaction when that’s not the case. [33:38] Brad tells a story about one of his experiences and how confidence in your work, no matter the client’s reaction, is important. [38:21] Ken challenges listeners to act in the opposite spirit. “If you feel like, I really need to set this person straight, you act in the opposite spirit” [39:10] Bob talks about how human connection is vital to promote empathy and communication. “Try to get in front of the person as much as possible, like get them in a room, talk it out.” [46:33] Ken points out the importance of giving positive and negative feedback together to create a balance. “People can't go through life without any positive input.” | |||
| 10 Nov 2023 | Ep 137: How to LEAD Client Expectations | 00:43:34 | |
Navigating the promises and pitfalls of the agency-client relationship. Discover strategies for aligning expectations, establishing boundaries, and crafting clarity around goals, metrics, and shared vision. The key to success? Honest communication, mutual understanding, and a relationship built on trust and partnership. Summary:In this week's episode, the guys delve into the nuances of managing client expectations and optimizing the agency-client relationship. Bob kicks things off by highlighting the disconnect that can occur when clients request general awareness and agencies deliver specific metrics. Ken emphasizes that agencies can only control their expertise, not guaranteed outcomes, since external factors also influence results. Brad shares an example where a client disregarded research recommendations, then blamed the agency when their gut instinct didn't pan out. Bob advocates for an immersion day to align on goals and strategy before engagement. Ken argues that clients should view agencies more like employees, carefully vetting values and vision. He notes that in successful past relationships, mutual philosophy and respect were key. Brad stresses empathy for clients' high-stakes position while hiring agencies. Bob recommends using tools like HumanIK to analyze clients' psychological profiles and craft tailored communication. In closing, the guys encourage honest, ongoing dialogue to establish shared expectations and boundaries. Keeping clients' ultimate aims top of mind, whether fame or fortune, can help agencies LEAD expectations by forging trust, partnership and clarity. Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys:Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken: Show Highlights:[1:42] Brad introduces the topic of managing client expectations around results when working with agencies. [3:18] Ken discusses how agencies can only control their expertise, not guarantee outcomes. [5:39] Brad shares an example where a client disregarded research recommendations, then blamed the agency when it didn't work. [8:20] Ken argues clients should view agencies like employees, carefully vetting values and vision. [11:37] Brad stresses empathy for clients' high-stakes position while hiring agencies. [17:47] Brad highlights the difference between what clients say and what they actually want. [22:11] Ken emphasizes the importance of mutual philosophy and respect in successful agency-client relationships. [28:55] Bob advocates for defining perfect customer criteria to evaluate fit. [32:13] Brad discusses the high-risk stakes for clients hiring agencies. [33:40] Ken compares hiring an agency to hiring an employee. [38:38] Bob recommends using HumanIK to analyze clients' communication styles. [41:16] Brad suggests identifying red flags early to navigate new client relationships. [42:36] Bob reminds listeners to like, subscribe and check out the new 3-camera format on YouTube. | |||
| 23 Mar 2022 | Ep 103: How to Find and Leverage your Superpower with special guest, Erik Jensen | 00:48:25 | |
Subtitle: Today’s episode features a special guest, Erik Jensen, Chief Strategy Officer of Predictive ROI. Predictive ROI is a thought leadership and content strategy business that helps agencies, consultants, and coaches create smart solutions while digging deep into their client’s systems and goals. We chat about what it looks like to discover your superpower as an agency and how to leverage that to intentionally and strategically grow your business.
Summary: On today’s exciting episode, featuring special guest Erik Jensen, we dive deep into superpowers, thought leadership, and how to monetize thought leadership. Erik tells us about his unique background as well as how Predictive ROI came about. Predictive ROI helps agencies, consultants, and coaches develop thought leadership and monetize it by niching down to their special “superpower”. In order to profit from your superpower, you first have to identify it. Erik breaks down some important questions and perspectives to consider when trying to find your special power. Once you know where your specialty lies, content generation and having a body of work are key players to consider when monetizing your thought leadership. There is no such thing as a “silver bullet” strategy that will fix everything or make you wealthy overnight. It takes work, intentionality, and strategy to build a strong business. Erik advises agency owners, consultants, and coaches to not allow fear to dictate business strategy, because then you’ve lost before you’ve even begun.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Erik Jensen: The Chief Strategy Officer and co-founder of Predictive ROI, a company whose thought leadership & content strategy is for smart Agency, Coaching, and Consulting leaders who want even smarter solutions. Our clients are incredibly brilliant business leaders who know that if something promises quick and simple, it likely won't last for the long haul. So when we work together, we dig in deep to learn your business, your systems, and your goals.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode by introducing this week’s special guest, Mr. Erik Jensen. He's the chief strategy officer for a company called Predictive ROI. [3:01] Erik explains what Predictive ROI’s mission is as well as his unique background, his business partner, and how Predictive ROI was formed. “We help agencies, coaches and consultants build a position of thought leadership and then monetize it.” [7:09] Ken asks Erik about his pivoting point in his business, and what pushed them to evolve. [7:37] Erik explains the process of Predictive ROI’s transition from serving any client to niching down and working with agencies, consultants, and coaches. “We offered guaranteed contracts where we would say, we're guaranteeing you that you will get you know, 2x or 3x or 4x return on the investment with us. Then we learned something else, which is sometimes we don't have control.” [11:01] Erik gives a key piece of advice to all agency and business owners, and explains why he believes it’s important. “I think if there's any one lesson that I would like to tell anybody who's just new to running a business, I don't care if it's agencies, coaches or consultants or something else. Go narrow, fast.” [11:54] Erik breaks down the meaning and reasoning behind why agencies often try to help every client that comes their way. [12:43] Ken asks Erik, “Why agencies, coaches and consultants, like why did you decide to niche down in that way?” [14:02] Bob asks Erik what his role is and how he serves his clients. [15:04] Erik explains one of the key concepts of thought leadership. “Thought leadership is really about staking your claim, and we call it planting your flag, planting your flag of authority in the space that you want to own.” [19:37] Ken asks Erik to “walk us through the questions that someone could ask themselves to identify here's the flag that I should be planting.” [20:19] Erik discusses the importance of identifying “What are the problems that you solve? What is your superpower?.” He also discusses the three main categories to analyze when trying to establish what your superpower is. [24:53] Erik creates a unique analogy that explains and dives deep on leveraging your superpower. [26:13] Erik talks about one of the ways that Predictive ROI ensures that their clients are in a position to identify their superpower ability and have buy in. [29:29] Ken asks Erik what his tips are for content generation. [32:04] Erik talks about how he implements systems to help with content generation, but even more importantly, “your best salesperson is you.” [38:38] Erik breaks down his daily schedule and tasks. [41:35] Bob discusses his experience with content creation. [43:03] Erik explains his perspective on content generation and talks about the importance of filling the inherent vacuum online, “with content of your own making and direction before others fill that vacuum for you.” [43:03] Erik also discusses the value of having a body of work, and how it can help build trust with your clients. “It does not happen overnight. This is not a silver bullet strategy. This is not a get rich quick scheme. This is a building a business with intention strategy.” [45:45] Erik talks about all of Predictive ROI’s resources to help you monetize thought leadership. “Hop over to predictive roi.com. We have the weekly free q&a. We also have a book on this, which outlines it a little bit more clearly. You can get it for free at predictive roi.com/free-book And it really is free. It's not one of those like, pay shipping and handling or whatever [47:29] Erik closes with a final piece of advice, “Don't let fear dictate the strategy of your company.” | |||
| 09 Sep 2020 | Ep 37: What’s Your Agency Content Strategy? How do you produce great content that produces results? | 00:53:38 | |
Summary: Understanding the importance of great content creation is the first step in moving towards a killer content strategy- everyone knows they should be doing it, but prioritizing content creation over client work isn’t always the most appealing prospect. In today’s episode, we dive into the DEEP value in creating your own content and how the process has worked for us in our own agencies.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:24] Brad talks about the challenge of beginning the process of content creation for yourself, reflecting on the idea that it’s not selfish to do so but actually an important investment! “We need to be our #1 client… and it’s really difficult to get employees on board with that.”
[4:55] Ken talks about how difficult it is to get your voice heard amongst the other screaming voices in the industry. [7:18] Ken says that creating a strong voice for yourself that is based on being a thought leader in the industry is the philosophy for Metacake. [7:26] Bob: “I know for me,one of the things that was really successful was Itried to blog and write a lot and try to position myself as somebody who knew what theywere talking about. In that field.” [9:25] Bob speaks about how agencies should think of themselves more as a media company that just marketing and/or advertising.
[14:05] Brad asks Bob to talk about content writing, as it’s something Bob has been a strong advocate for for a long time. [15:00] Bob responds: “Over time, if you see content writing as part of your longterm strategy, there is power in that. You can google the name of my agency and stuff I wrote 10 or 15 years ago still pops up.”
[19:00] Ken talks about what truly good content is and how much investment of time and energy it really takes. Properly writing about new ideas or strategies takes a lot of time and intentionality. [23:00] Brad: When you’re writing, look at the news of the day and write about it from the perspective of your own industry and how it relates. [25:26] Brad: Consistency is key- the biggest influencers and content creators in the world didn’t happen into their success, they showed up every day and put the work in. Be consistent in your content creation and the results will come over time. [27:47] Ken speaks on finding your unique point of view and passion for that perspective.
[36:00] Ken continues to speak on client who are hungry for a specific type of agency relationship- “there is an appetite for good educational content that people could do to help sell themselves or their business” and so Metacake serves to fill that need.
[39:11] Brad asks Ken about how he gets Metacake behind his content strategy as a team. [40:09] Ken: “I think being genuine is really important because… if you’re not genuine and it’s really contrived, you do it just to put a content strategy out… that’s not true to who you are. I think people will feel that hypocrisy and I imagine it will be harder to to get behind longterm, but the truth is a big part of our heart is what we believe our purpose is as a business.” [41:00] Ken responds: “I believe a product that all agencies sell information and experience… you might deliver that by creating a website, or you might deliver that by writing a book, but you’re still brokering information and experience.”
[48:00] Brad talks about the importance of deciding where to spend your money wisely- the process of trying something new can pay off massively in learning for your team.
[48:21] Ken “I have a theory that most of the reason why people don’t put effort into content strategy is they don’t know where to start- what to talk about, what their personality and style are going to be. And so put time into that- that’ll prove returns but also, just DO IT.” [51:42] Bob speaks on the next episode, and how The Guys will dive into maximizing content and some of the tools that are used to make this happen. “We’ve convinced you to focus on this content creation, but now we need to know where to start.”
| |||
| 16 Feb 2022 | Ep 99: What’s your theme for 2022? | 00:46:06 | |
Subtitle: With the beginning of a new year comes the organizing, goal setting, and planning. What is your theme for 2022? What do you want your year to look like for your business as well as your personal life? We discuss our themes for 2022, why we chose these phrases, and what they mean to us. We also talk about how control is an illusion, ambiguous loss, bioluminescent creatures, and our NEW agency myth busting podcast on this week’s episode.
Summary: What are your goals for 2022, and what is your mindset for the year? One way to organize your thoughts and goals, business and personal, is by creating a theme and or a personal word for yourself. We talk about what inspired our themes along with the importance of mindset, investing in your team, letting go of control, and learning how to live with uncertainty and how they relate to our themes. Keep an ear out for our NEW agency myth busting podcast coming next week!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens this episode by asking the guys how they’re doing and a quick chat about fasting and warmth. [2:21] Brad talks about his phrase from 2021, A New Hope, what it meant to him, and how he applied it to his business. “We were not promised tomorrow, so you gotta rock and roll today.” [5:17] Ken discusses how learning to live with and above uncertainty is a lifelong journey. He also mentions his phrase from 2021, which is also his phrase for 2022, and why he chose it as well as how he applied it to his business and why it’s important to him. “My phrase was ‘winter’s my season’. Ideally, you're preparing for the downtimes, so that when the downtimes come, you can not only survive it, but somehow thrive in it. In some ways, there's a lot of opportunity in winter.” [13:40] Bob talks about how the last few years have brought ambiguous loss for everyone and how embracing that loss (or winter) can bring opportunity. “It's all a matter of perspective, but there is an ambiguity and a loss behind what we have all gone through. And when you learn to love the situation you're in, there are some really cool things that can happen.” [15:37] Bob discusses the importance of prioritizing and investing in your team’s mental, physical, and emotional health. “We got to stop seeing all these things as individual things in the workplace, but actually, they're collective things that we should be investing in.” [18:23] Ken mentions a stock buying concept and relates it to the importance of preparing for a season of winter in your business. “The concept in it is this idea that when everything is falling apart for other businesses, if you're ready, that's when the opportunity lies. You have to take that and you have to plan for that.” [19:14] Bob talks about his phrase for 2021, reimagine growth, and why he chose it, and how he applied that to his life. “I really want to do this, but I figured if this was the safer path to go and be an accountant, and then you're 55 years old, and realize, man, I hate accounting. I think growth looks very different, to every human being, and my idea of growth has changed.” [22:06] Bob reveals his theme for 2022, simplify. He relates it to Will Smith’s new documentary series, Welcome to Earth. He tells the guys a quote from one of the episodes that helped inspire his theme. “At the end of it, he says ‘until you go into the dark and go beyond the darkness. You'll never see new light and new things that you've never experienced. Not just embrace it, but love it and engage with it.’” [26:26] Brad tells the guys about his theme for the year, getting jiggy with it. He also talks about why he chose it to be his theme and why it’s important to him. [28:59] Ken relates Brad’s theme to a question he’s pondered, “If you removed the financial gain from any action that you did, what would you be left with doing?” [35:26] Ken discusses how the feeling of being in control is simply an illusion, and your productivity will increase if you let go of control. [36:57] Bob mentions the importance of smiling and how it can positively impact your clients as well as yourself. “When you get on the phone, and you smile, you can hear it and the client can feel it.” [38:28] Ken talks about his personal word for the year, leverage and how it relates to his theme and his personal and business goals for 2022. “You can lift more, if you loosen your grip.” [45:04] Bob wraps up this week’s episode by telling the listeners, “We're going to start a new series. So tune in next week. We're going to start talking about the myths of agency life and we're going to do some myth busting.” | |||
| 25 May 2022 | Ep 108: What if you took a month off? | 00:44:08 | |
Subtitle: You can only give from abundance. And since you have to give everyday to be successful, you must prioritize YOUR rest… for the good of the ones you serve. Today we dive into the idea of taking a sabbatical. That may sound daunting or unrealistic, but we break down how to support and prepare your agency in practical ways for a sabbatical leave. We also talk about firing yourself, preparing your team, trains, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: On today’s episode, we explore the concept of taking a sabbatical. No one is going to reach old age and say, “I wish I had worked more”. In fact, they’ll probably say the opposite! As an agency owner, it’s important to consider your employees’ mental health and keep them from burning out. A sabbatical can provide mental clarity, peace, and new insight into how you run your agency. This “fast from work” also has value for the members of the team who have to pick up the slack. It can provide them with experience, insight, and new skills while also allowing you to analyze your systems and look for unseen cracks in your business. Preparation is a key part of this process. You’ve got to have a hardworking team that you trust, as well as efficient systems and redundancies. With committed preparation, there’s no reason why you and other members of your team shouldn’t take a sabbatical.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:55] Bob introduces this episode’s topic, “what does it mean to take a sabbatical and what’s the value of it? I'd love to hear you guys’ thoughts on it.” [5:30] Brad talks about a memorable question he asked his father. “I asked my father, what's one thing that you regret in life? He said, I regret working too much.” [6:10] Ken discusses the idea that you “board a train” when you start an agency and how the day to day things keep you from getting off. He also discusses the benefits of having an extended time away from work. “When you can get away from the business for an extended period of time, the clarity that you get is amazing…just you get to restore. You come back and you're inspired. And you kind of have clarity about what you're supposed to be doing.” [8:56] Bob dives deep on Ken’s train analogy. [10:50] Brad asks Bob what he thinks the prep for taking a month off would look like. [12:00] Bob talks about the importance of firing yourself, having systems and redundancies in place, and communicating and trusting your team. [13:20] Ken ponders the question, “How can you institute some sort of rest period, in whatever size business you are?” [17:28] Bob talks about the value and experience everyone else gains when a leader leaves for a period of time. “it forces everyone else to step up to the plate and fill in.” [21:21] Ken asks the guys and listeners, “What would have to be in place for you to be able to take two weeks, a month off?” [24:34] Ken talks about a few ways to prepare for taking a month off. “I think one one good exercise is making a list of what are all the things that maybe all the things that you do. And then a sub list of like, what are all the things that you do that only you can do.” [27:17] Brad asks Ken, “if your employees came to you and said ‘Hey, for those who have been here for one year, we want to be able to take one month off, and we're all going to work together as a team to make sure you don't have to do anything.’ Would you be open to that?” [27:42] Ken discusses the importance of committing yourself to the prep necessary for taking a month off. [28:49] Bob points out that taking a month off could illuminate weaknesses that you’re not aware of. [29:52] Ken says that when foolproofing your preparations, it’s important to, “figure out, how do I make decisions? How do I do the things that I do?” [33:15] Bob talks about how other countries are initiating 4 day work weeks as well as the wisdom behind rest and recharging. [34:43] Bob discusses the results of a study about hybrid work environments and the benefits. [37:26] Brad talks about how he’s been breaking his habit of prioritizing work by choosing the opposite. [39:09] Ken says, “No one sits on their rocker at ninety years old looking back and is like, I wish I had worked more.” [42:39] Brad discusses the importance of noticing the signs of burnout and taking appropriate action. “If you're feeling like you're just constantly mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally exhausted, it's probably time to find a little more extended time.” [43:20] Bob wraps up and says, “We'll continue to talk about this and would love to hear from listeners. Please rank and review and rate and share the program on YouTube or any of the places where you get podcasts!” | |||
| 16 Dec 2020 | Ep 51: What happens when your POC changes? | 00:52:28 | |
Summary: The process of communicating with clients can be a tricky one to maneuver even in the best of times. Today’s episode focuses on experiences with new personalities (sometimes bad) entering on the client side. How do you deal with them? What are the guidelines you use? What are some strategies to win people over? How can you create an environment where your team feels supported and encouraged, while dialing down the client gossip that can create a toxic work environment? How can you create the BEST value for your clients, regardless of their lack of planning or insight? Stay tuned!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:48] Brad introduces this weeks’ topic- starting with how to deal with a new client or new person that is in communication with a client and doesn’t work well with the team. The process of winning them over can be challenging. [3:27] Ken talks about how the process can be difficult because the emotional health of people is all over the board to begin with- there can be an attitude of defensiveness from clients when they communicate with agencies because they feel threatened. [5:17] Brad says that for some companies the idea of having a digital marketing agency come in can be very challenging against what they’ve done in the past- How can you win them over when they come into the relationship with a lot of doubt or baggage? [7:27] Brad talks about clients who are rude or work in a specific, difficult way. “Number one, that’s not us. They’re not that way because of you. They’re that way to everyone.” There is opportunity to celebrate that person and their role in those difficult situations.
[8:36] Brad says “We’re not here to win the battle, we’re going to win the war… and we’re going to show them that we can be trusted.” [9:08] Bob brings the convo back around to marketing terms- 2 Tips for dealing with new clients or new situations. #1 Do Your Research- look them up on LinkedIn, pay attention to their work history, their school history, volunteer interests. #2 Listen, Just listen and allow their words and opinions inform the way that you will respond. Allow the connection as a human being to flourish and grow. [11:29] Brad shares that having empathy for customers and clients is key- get to know them and figure out what their superpower is within that relationship. [12:13] Bob asks about Ken and Metacake’s client relationship management- do other people than Bob Strachan (Ken’s business partner) get involved in new client relationships or do they try to keep Bob in that role? [13:29] Brad talks about teams who complain about their clients and how difficult that can be to reel back in if your team has negative sentiments about a client. [13:48] Ken says that he puts a lot of focus on not letting that client talk get out of hand. Venting can turn into negative energy which can turn to cynicism. Venting can turn into gossiping which can damage the team mindset. [15:45] Ken continues, saying that with so many different types of personalities, it can be challenging to not feel threatened or create situations where you alert people’s defenses. There are relational tactics that work but Ken asks, what happens if these tactics dont’t work? [17:21] Brad suggests that approaching the conversation with “Here’s some things that can make the relationship better for us- how can we help you at the same time?” [18:36] Brad says that Step 1 is to be clear with what could be helpful in improving your relationship. The setting is important here as well, making them feel like it’s more than just a business meeting. [21:49] Brad shares about a client who is domineering and has a “my way or the highway” personality type. It can be intimidating for the team to get on calls with this client because of that personality type. The drive is showing clients like this that you are even smarter and even more of an expert than they are- when they lean in to challenge, you need to lean back with the same energy so that client feels heard and seen and supported. [23:25] Bob adds that making a person feel valued in the relationship is key. “Am I worth anything in this situation?” is the question people will be asking themselves- speak to that question based on the personality type that you’re working with. This will help you engage in those confrontations in a more professional and kind way. [26:12] Bob gives a for instance of how this preparation can help to define processes and create boundaries for your clients. This will be proactive in dealing with certain personalities that may create friction. [27:00] Ken says that having these processes in place means that you can enforce those boundaries for yourself and for your team. [28:45] Brad says that if you do feel the need to switch your point person so that the client has an easier time communicating, bring that person into meetings first and make sure they will be the right replacement. [31:41] Bob asks if the guys have ever had clients who were simply too difficult to deal with- if so how did they deal with it? [32:41] Ken says they have a current client like this, who is not receptive to communication or connection. There are also situations where people are prone to drama and making decisions out of emotion. He suggests bringing solutions to the problem when you bring up the problem. [35:15] Brad says that it's also a good option to get a personal line of communication- or when you first meet with them, mention that xyz is the way you’d address issues, but also ask if that works for them or if they have another preference. This is a great way to be proactive about issues that may arise. [36:05] Ken talks about how the mindset is that your clients are thinking about you all the time- either your relationship or the project you’re working on. In reality, there is an awareness you have to have of where you fit into their work life. [38:32] Brad makes another suggestion- bring in people that you trust to talk about a situation with a client. [39:27] Brad shares a story from school and says “You can’t get connected, you can’t expect that people are going to be nice.” All you can control is the way that you respond. [41:23] Bob asks about managing personal relationships that turn into professional relationships, and whether they move quickly and less carefully because they’re personal connections. [44:56] Ken asks 1 final question- are there rules to who is privy to the details of your engagement? It can be an important detail to consider- who will know the ins and outs of the engagement and who will have the authority to question or reroute that? [46:39] Brad says that this is an important detail to consider- if people aren’t on the same page, as if these people aren’t privy to the boundaries of the project, they can start asking for things that are out of scope and not possible. [49:59] Ken adds that sometimes there can be an assumption that if anyone on the client team asks you a question, you give them an answer. But it’s important to know how the levels of information are passed down and who is in on what parts of the project. [51:09] Brad throws out a popular quote here with Agency Exposed- “ Systems and processes run your business, and people run the systems and processes.” | |||
| 12 Aug 2022 | Ep 114: Content marketing... Is it worth it? | 00:46:30 | |
Subtitle: Content marketing… one of the more controversial topics in the business world. What is it and is it worth doing? The list of questions goes on. On today’s episode, we talk about the role content marketing plays in branding as well as PR firms, organic leads, social media, results, moats, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: On today’s episode we discuss content marketing and its role in branding. Some of the best leads come from organic leads through organic rankings. A way to get organic rankings is through content marketing. Though content marketing won’t get you leads overnight, if you can hang in there for the long haul, it can strengthen your brand, get organic leads over time, and provide a long lasting foundation for your online reputation. It’s crucial to find a way to measure the success of your content marketing efforts, otherwise the situation is like having a financial advisor who doesn’t know which of your investments succeeded. In the end, content marketing isn’t all about leads, it’s about building a brand that can withstand the trials of time.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about the guys’ vacations. [7:33] Brad begins a discussion about the topic for this week’s episode, content marketing. [10:19] Bob talks about the difference between social media and content marketing which starts a discussion about different ways to do content marketing. “Because there's content marketing. And then there's social media. And sometimes they're the same. And sometimes they're not even close to the same.” [11:03] Bob discusses the important connection between content marketing and branding. “I think I believe that good branding must include good content marketing, I don't think you can separate the two. And in today's age, branding, part of branding is about building trust in your brand, and creating that emotional connection… In today's world, everybody's online, and if you don't have any type of content to connect with, you're not really doing branding, if you're not doing content marketing today.” [13:49] Bob talks about how content can help you get organic leads via organic rankings. [14:38] Brad discusses some of the challenges he deals with when dealing with clients, PR firms, and their content marketing. “I think modern marketing companies are like financial advisors to their clients.” [20:49] Ken talks about how he is, “trying to figure out, is the time I put into content worth it?” [24:04] Ken creates an analogy about how he sees content and its role in marketing. [30:00] Brad talks about how many companies focus on making money today versus making money tomorrow and how that impacts their content marketing. “The majority of your efforts are to make dollars today, not tomorrow.” [33:14] Ken says, “a good brand is the only moat you have.” and content marketing is one of the shovels you can use to dig that moat. [43:04] Bob wraps up with a story that shows the importance of content marketing. “In 2022 It's all about content marketing.”
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| 21 Oct 2022 | Ep 118: Remote vs In Office vs Hybrid... Which is best? | 00:47:42 | |
Subtitle: *jeopardy countdown plays* “Which work environment is best: remote, in-office, or hybrid?” The answer to this question depends on what your goals, growth projections, team size, and personality are. There are pros and cons to all of these methods, and we unpack each of them as well as subleasing, mental health, office dogs, and more in this week’s episode!
Summary: On this week’s episode, we talk about the pros and cons of remote, in office, and hybrid work. Remote working makes it possible for your employees to have a flexible schedule, travel, and prioritize time with family and friends. In office working provides human connection, team camaraderie, and the potential for higher productivity. Hybrid work environments are a mix of both of these; a happy medium. Any of these methods could work well for your agency, but hybrid seems to be the most optimal. We dive deep on what elements are important to have in an office to create a healthy place where your employees can grow and thrive creatively while being productive. We also explore what the workforce will look like and want in five years as well as the importance of having a holistic perspective for your business. All of these things depend on the goals you have for your business, the size of your team, your personality, and your dreams and desires.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:42] Ken opens this week’s episode by chatting with the guys about the interview with Rogan and Zuckerburg, technology, social media, and mental health. [5:08] Ken talks about how humans struggle with addictions to technology and how wisdom and restraint will become increasingly necessary as technology advances. [10:20] Bob discusses how there are many different ways to run your business as a result of the pandemic. “It's an interesting time, because while there's so many agency owners that have gotten rid of office space altogether, there's some that are going back to the office. And most are doing some sort of hybrid. There's pros and cons to all of those.” [13:38] Ken talks about the net positive and net negative effects of hybrid and remote work. He also discusses convenience and how often, “as you grow, you learn that convenience is not necessarily serving you.” [16:35] Bob discusses some of the benefits of a hybrid work environment. “The hybrid model seems to be the most optimal of all the studies. You can get that team creativity and workflow and face to face, which is really important, but you also get the freedom.” [18:00] Bob says that the best work environment depends on your desires, personality, and management style. [21:25] Brad asks the guys, “Five years down the road, you have to move into offices. You may stay partially remote, maybe not, you never know. What kind of stuff would you need for sure at that office for your employees to thrive there?” [22:48] Bob answers Brad’s question and discusses the importance of team size, growth projections, and what the goal of the space is. [24:42] Brad talks about the possibility of purchasing extra office space and leasing it out until his company needs that space. [27:23] Ken talks about defining the vision and future goals for the business, size and the cost associated with it, and subleasing. [30:04] Brad discusses the benefits of subleasing as well as the idea of purchasing and owning a space. “We could have 60% of the office, and then sublease 40%, which actually helps us subsidize our own fees and rent. I also like that there's people, even if they don't work for us, with different ideas and different backgrounds.” [31:27] Brad talks the guys through a few of the things he’s taking into consideration as he plans for his company’s new office space. [33:12] Bob asks the guys, “five years from now, what's the workforce going to look like?”, igniting a discussion about what a workplace should look like and how it can become a place your employees want to work. [35:55] Ken elaborates on what he believes is the ideal work space. “Ideally, people come here because that's the best place for them to work. And they deal with some frictions in life, because it's worth it. You've got everything you need to do a really good, productive day of work that you believe is better than in your bedroom. How do we make this the best place in my employees’ mind?” [38:54] Bob talks about the importance of taking a more holistic approach to business. [41:35] Ken closes with a chat about office dogs and says that he tells his kids, “If you want a dog, pray that God changes my heart. Because I can't take a dog right now.” | |||
| 20 May 2020 | Ep 21: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 8): How do you Set and Achieve Objectives in ANY business climate? With Guest, Jay Myers, Co-Founder of Bold Commerce. | 00:56:55 | |
Summary: In today’s episode we have guest Jay Myers, co-founder of Bold Commerce - arguably the world’s largest ecommerce app company. Jay shares some of the secrets that have been key to Bold’s success as well as the method he uses to set and achieve business goals in any climate with a team of over 300 people. His business is a great example of experimentation, listening to the customer, and adjusting until they found their stride. Now he is able to passionately lead a team of over 300 people through the challenges of surviving and thriving in business and in life. Bold was one of the first app companies on Shopify, and is not a key player in the global ecommerce space.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Jay Myers: Co-founder of Bold Commerce, possibly the the longest-running app company in ecommerce, that provides solutions for the world’s most innovative brands.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:10] Ken introduces our guest, Jay Myers, a Founder of Bold Commerce. [2:25] Jay thanks Ken for the intro and speaks about the value of teamwork and cooperation in the founding of Bold. He has 3 business partners that all brought unique skillsets and visions to the table, and Bold could have never existed the way it does without all four of them.
[3:53] Ken asks Jay how competitors have impacted him. Jay speaks about how his view about competition has shifted over the years. [5:08] Jay: “When you start focusing on the competition too much, you start drifting into that lane… what you need to focus on is your customers, you need to listen to you customers, there will always be competition and that’s okay.” [5:51] Brad asks Jay to clarify what Bold does and how it is used in ecommerce businesses. [6:00] Jay summarizes his journey to Bold. From an early age he was passionate about online stores (since 1998 when he was 18), eventually moved one to Shopify and noticed their app store.
[7:41] Ken: “Correct me if I’m wrong, Jay but doesn’t Staples run on your checkout right now?” [7:53] Jay speaks about Staples and their price tools engine product that allows dynamic price changes. [9:40] Bob asks for Jay’s perspective of the pandemic and what he’s seeing and predicting for the future. [10:38] Jay talks about how he’s expecting ecommerce to experience a second wave very soon. Prior to the pandemic, global ecommerce was hovering around 17%, and over just the last month it has shifted to 30%. [11:45] Jay speaks about how the internet has impacted local merchants negatively over the last 15 years. When a customer can find a cheaper price for the same item from a factory across the world, that local merchant has lost out on that business.
[15:08] Ken adds that he has had similar thoughts. “That creative problem-solving is what’s going to help you succeed through this.” [17:34] Jay speaks on one example he’s seen: “People are cancelling their subscriptions like crazy, but also people are signing up for subscriptions faster than they ever have…. It’s really brought to light what people value.” [18:13] Ken speaks about how businesses are doing the same thing, they’re shaking up their expense and reprioritizing them. [19:35] Ken asks Jay what his leadership style was prior to this and how that has changed during this crisis. [20:03] Jay speaks about opening their Austin office back in January and how things have changed since then.
[27:45] Brad adds that he thinks companies will realize they don’t need huge buildings and giant parking lots anymore, that they can downsize to half the space and create a more laid back coffee shop vibe for their employees. [28:35] Ken talks about how entertaining the idea of changing has been an interesting process. He talks about Metacake taking on a hybrid schedule is likely, and mentions that there is an enormous benefit to working from home that not many people talk about.
[30:30] Ken continues: “There’s so much benefit that comes from that… mental health, family health… businesses can pioneer without sacrificing anything.” [31:20] Jay mentions OKR, or Objectives and Key Results. It’s a system where you create company-wide objectives that is broken down into smaller objectives each quarter. Each objective has key results, typically a number.
[36:12] Jay speaks more on OKR’s. It is actually more difficult than you’d think to come up with a good objective, because those that are achieving every objective they’ve set for themselves probably haven’t set their sights high enough. [38:24] Ken talks about how setting objectives in this manner can be a cure for shiny object syndrome, or the idea that companies can get into a flurry of directions and make little actual progress. [38:50] Jay: “A lot of companies succeed more because of what they said no to than what they say yes to.” And almost indigestion happens when there are a TON of opportunities or ideas that get backed up. When objectives are set, every opportunity comes along with very quick decision making, because it is easy to ask if any one deal will move the needle on any objectives. [41:49] Brad asks Jay how long it took before Bold was able to build brand equity. [42:13] Jay responds that it took several years and a lot of changes to find their lane and eventually build that equity. They settled on Bold Commerce after many rounds of experimentation.
[50:15] Brad thanks Jay for his time and speaks about how he loves the focus on the customer or client. Even when designing apps to help businesses, there is always a focus on providing the customer with the best value for their money. | |||
| 15 Sep 2023 | Ep 135: More rest, more value, more profit = better life | 00:50:10 | |
Subtitle: Dive into a world where business insights blend with the rhythm of excellence, as we unpack the essence of the "Messi Effect." Just as a catchy jingle sticks in your mind, on today’s episode, we explore how aligning strengths and impeccable timing can revolutionize success. Join the guys as they discuss how to simplify the complex, fine-tune your abilities, and conduct your own symphony of achievement.
Summary: In this week's episode, the guys talk about their summer experiences, rest, value, profit, simplicity, and more. Ken shares his family's annual trip to upstate New York, emphasizing the significance of establishing deep familial connections in the Adirondacks. Brad delves into his newfound intentional rhythm for managing tasks and avoiding feeling overwhelmed. Bob describes his Florida vacation and the highlight of his summer – witnessing Lionel Messi's debut in MLS. He extrapolates important life and business lessons from Messi's approach, highlighting the value of understanding one's strengths, staying focused, and delivering when the time is right. The discussion shifts to business matters. Ken outlines positive changes his business has made, underlining the importance of proper pricing and recommending reframing the term "agency" to bring about transformative shifts. Ken introduces a tool called Harpa for analyzing longer texts and segues into the "Messi Effect," advising businesses to focus on their core strengths and remain within their expertise. The conversation touches on the tendency to overlook simple solutions and the value of practicing intentional simplicity. Brad observes that relentless busyness doesn't necessarily drive business growth, while Bob introduces the effort justification bias as it relates to focusing on strengths. Brad advocates for setting aside personal time to enhance creative flow and cognitive capabilities. Bob concludes the episode by stressing the need to balance and nurture both sides of the brain, preventing burnout and cognitive overload by renewing, resting, and reviving mental capacities.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Brad opens this week’s episode with the idea that the guys should have a jingle for Agency Exposed. [1:30] Bob asks the guys what they did this summer. [2:00] Ken talks about his family’s trip to upstate New York to the Adirondacks and the value of putting down deep familial roots. “I've gone every year for my entire life. It's just a special place for us.” [7:55] Brad tells the guys about his new 1980 Porsche and his trips up to Michigan. [12:15] Brad also breaks down his new intentional rhythm he’s been creating over the summer. “I feel like this summer I have been able to kind of just create more of a rhythm and it's been really helpful…there's a point where you start feeling overwhelmed, and you really don't know why. You have to stop and take a look at your day and try to figure out how do I do what I need to do, but not feel overwhelmed when I'm doing it?” [14:07] Bob talks about his vacations to Florida and his highlight of the summer, seeing Lionel Messi play his first MLS game. “There's just something amazing about watching people that are like the highest elite level of their game.” [18:05] Bob breaks down some important life and business lessons he’s learned from Messi. “He knows his lane. He knows what He's good at. And he doesn't try to be anything. But when it’s time for him to stand up, he delivers. He doesn't try to be all things and doesn't try to defend. His timing is impeccable. He's always passing, he's unselfish.” [19:44] Bob segues into a new topic by asking the guys about their businesses. [19:57] Ken mentions some of the positive changes his business has made, the importance of pricing, and why you shouldn’t call yourself an agency. “Change the name to change the game.” [23:35] Brad talks about AI, its explosive growth, and the potential for all businesses. [24:11] Bob adds that it’s important to, “stop yourself and go, what can I automate, and what can I make more efficient with this tool?” [27:18] Ken tells the guys about Harpa, a tool he uses to analyze and understand longer or larger texts. [29:50] Ken talks about “The Messi Effect”, and how to apply it to your business. “I think it comes down to like doing what you're really, really good at, and just staying in that lane.” [33:51] Ken discusses the tendency to overlook the simple answer, and the importance of intentionally practicing simplicity. “It took me a long time to realize that we as humans are conditioned to think that the simple solution is not the right solution…The thing that you are really good at, just do a lot of that thing. So don't jump to the other side.” [37:19] Brad adds on saying, “I've noticed that,I felt like in business that if I wasn't running hard, that wasn't moving the needle in my business. That never gets you anywhere.” [39:36] Bob mentions an important psychological principle, effort justification bias, and relates it to pursuing the simple; focusing on your strengths and assets. [41:11] Ken talks about the importance of your time because it’s, “the most valuable thing in your life. And it's the only thing that you have to really leverage into doing something of worth or good.” [46:51] Brad discusses the value in setting time aside for yourself to prepare and reset in order to maximize your brain’s capabilities. “In the creative space, the flow is what gets your juices going, but you have to shut everything out. Allow your brain to maximize its capability. It's soothing and healing.” [47:57] Bob closes this week’s episode by talking about the importance of accessing both parts of the brain to prevent burnout or cognitive overload. “You have to renew it, and you have to rest it, and you have to revive it.” | |||
| 10 Mar 2022 | Ep 101: The Customer is Always Right... Introducing Agency Myth Busting | 00:43:39 | |
Subtitle: Welcome to the 100th Episode of Agency Exposed! The agency world is riddled with myths and assumptions, and today we’re going to begin a series of episodes where we test some of the most widely believed myths about marketing, advertising, and agencies in general. We debunk some of the top agency myths and more on this week’s exciting episode.
Summary: On today’s episode, we begin to explore some of the myths people believe to be true about agencies. We’ve gone out to our listeners as well as the Google machine to find some of the most common beliefs and assumptions about marketing agencies. We break down many myths in today’s episode. Thank you to our listeners for your support, we can’t believe this is our 100th episode!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens up the 100th episode of Agency Exposed, with a brief chat about Tim Horton and ice hockey. [2:47] Ken begins today’s discussion about mythbusting by brainstorming some myths about agencies and agency life. [4:15] Brad talks about his myth and explains why it’s a myth. “I always thought that great creative would always win. Meaning if you were doing a campaign for a client, the best creative was always going to win.” [8:57] Ken discusses the importance of being able to detach yourself emotionally from your work and allowing things to roll off of you. [12:55] Ken googles some common agency myths and breaks down two, “do marketing agencies pay well, and do marketing agencies make money?” [14:12] Ken talks about the average profitability of agencies and why having a heavy human capital can be an issue. “How do marketing agencies make money?” [16:18] Ken discusses some of the potential negative aspects of working for an agency and compares them to his ideal agency situation. “We want a consistent team that builds over time. We want a balanced team that is not overworked.” [18:39] Bob talks about how working for an agency provides numerous opportunities for growth and education as well as other benefits. “I would argue there's no better place to get that type of business life experience.” [20:37] Bob discusses his myth, “that agency life is chaotic, and you work long hours, and everybody's cutthroat.” [27:15] Ken breaks down another myth and talks about the importance of balance. [28:07] Brad talks about one of his key philosophies and applies it to Ken’s myth. “I'm here to win the war, not the battle. I'm there to be an asset, not somebody that's going to care more about the end result than my client as a person.” [34:47] Ken discusses another myth and explains why he believes it is a myth. “The idea of control, I think, is a myth because there's a perception that an agency is going to come in and they're going to solve my problem and they have the ability to do that. No matter what.” [41:32] Bob concludes the 100th episode of Agency Exposed by talking about the importance of aligning the client’s definition of success with yours and how that comes into play with Ken’s myth.
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| 07 Jul 2021 | Ep 80: How do you optimize your business for scale? | 00:50:14 | |
Summary: Last week we covered how to scale your business without hiring. Today, we chat about how to make sure your agency is primed for scaling. The first step is to define what you want your agency to look like. Next, you need to put guidelines in place to protect your goals for your business. It’s also important to know what tasks give you energy, drain you of energy, and the ones in the middle. By being self aware and finding people who love the tasks you don’t, you can improve efficiency and limit fatigue. One final step to prep your agency for scaling is to have a bigger purpose than simply making money. By doing this, you can inspire your employees and create a genuine culture that they love.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:57] Bob opens this week’s episode by chatting about the triangle offense of the Bulls. [3:14] Bob continues last week’s conversation about scalability. [3:57] Brad asks how to efficiently manage transitioning from one project to another. [4:31] Ken talks about how he uses scheduling to promote focus and smooth transitions between projects. [5:16] Brad asks how many people an agency should have to have more layers of project management. [5:34] Bob says that having someone who focuses on time management is essential to scale. [8:10] Brad talks about how in order to manage your agency’s size, “it starts from understanding what you want to be as an agency.” [9:26] Ken asks what guidelines the guys use to practically manage their size goals. [9:56] Brad discusses the importance of understanding your pipeline and your relationships with your clients. [13:36] Bob says that it is vital to “have someone that is invested in the business on some level that has a really good gut about people.” [17:46] Brad asks, “How do you scale, like we talked about and not see your revenues or your profit continue to go down?” [20:47] Ken uses an analogy of Apple to illustrate that catering to the clients preferences- billing, for example- creates inefficiencies, unscalability, and low product quality. “Why die over something so trivial, that can be solved so easily.” [23:44] Bob dives into the dark side of success. “There's a dark side of success that no one really wants to acknowledge.” “there's collateral damage. You don't want multiple marriages, your kids that they don't have relationships but you have to sacrifice something, and people will always be the collateral damage.” [23:52] Bob discusses the importance of defining what you want for your agency by creating healthy boundaries that achieve your goals. [24:59] Brad considers the motivations behind scaling.“why do businesses have to scale and grow and continue to grow every year after year after year? Like, it's almost like a shame thing.” [25:41] Brad talks about the importance of having outside goals for your business. “You gotta have a bigger purpose for your agency outside of just making money. And if you can get your employees to really understand the value of that, then they're more apt to really enjoy what they're doing” [28:01] Bob discusses how essential culture is to scalability. [28:46] Brad talks about a friend of his who runs a mid size agency. He started an orphanage for 20-30 kids and his agency is actively involved in it. Brad says that at the “end of the day, I would rather scale that kind of mentality and culture than just scaling a business just to grow a business.” [30:08] Brad asks, “is money really what I want?” [31:02] Ken touches on other motivations behind scaling. “It's less about the size, or the numbers. It is to be able to have, more predictable, more sustainable, more consistent business success,” [32:01] Ken talks about the importance of having a healthy business. [35:00] Brad asks if the guys have a team member that manages and runs processes. He also asks for suggestions to help him find a person to do that in his business. [35:59] Bob discusses how essential it is to understand your strengths, weaknesses, and things in between. He also talks about having people in your weak spots to strengthen your agency and prevent burnout and exhaustion. [38:04] Ken has a conversation about his experience, methods, and tools he uses to systemize his agency. “you have systems, you just may not be aware of them. I think the first step is identifying them” “How I figure out how to systemize it is by trying to identify things that could be done smarter, and then saying, Okay, if I had to teach this to someone, how would I do that?” [45:17] Bob talks about personal discipline. [46:42] Brad discusses how people, especially new hires, want more processes as confirmation that they are doing their job correctly. [47:45] Ken wraps up with a chat about teamwork and picking your poison. “Would I want to do this? No. Do I want to live in a house? Yes.” | |||
| 06 Jan 2023 | Ep 122: Being human in a digital world | 00:51:19 | |
Subtitle: Being human in a digital world. It’s no secret that our society has become a digital one; almost everything we do is online or involves the internet. In the last episode, we dove into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul, breaking down collective anxiety and media trauma. In today’s episode, we continue our discussion of Bob’s book, but we focus more on the solutions and ways to reduce media trauma through screen time and how to heal from the influence of technology. We highly encourage you to check out Bob and Jenny’s book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.
Summary: In this episode, we continue to discuss Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul. In our last episode, we talked about what collective anxiety and media trauma are and in this episode, we discuss how to heal as a society and how to remain human in a digital world. In order to remain human, it’s important to consider what defines humanity and then apply those aspects to our lives in the digital age. Bob discusses a few of the ways to remain human. The first one is that staying human is about less. Online we have the world at our fingertips. The internet enables you to do so many things online. Another way to stay human is to accept your limitations. Because the internet is so vast and has “all the answers”, it conditions society to believe that we do not have limitations when online. Bob also discusses the importance of coming to terms with the paradox and mysteries of humanity. Our world isn’t black and white, yes or no, there’s often a lot of gray and maybes. The internet can convince its users that everyone is one way or another and this is false. There are many mysteries to life that we haven’t figured out yet, and sometimes there isn’t a clear cut answer. We as humans also don’t always get what we want, but technology creates the illusion that we can always get what we want due to the lack of limits on technology. As professionals in the technology industry, we are responsible to lead the way and start setting boundaries and being intentional about our marketing and be the start of the solution. You won’t want to miss our next episode where we’ll break down the process of writing a book. If you feel curious about media trauma or want to be part of the solution, don’t forget to purchase Bob Hutchins’ and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob opens this episode by introducing the topic, part two of Our Digital Soul by Jenny black and Bob Hutchins. [2:37] Brad talks about how in the previous episode, they discussed the challenges posed to us through social media and screens, and he asks Bob to unpack the solutions and the ways we as a society can heal. [5:22] Bob begins a discussion about some of the solutions or methods we can use and act on to limit our time on technology and the resulting trauma. “The first one is: Staying human is about less.” “Successful humanity is about making decisions, sticking with them, and moving forward. We look at a person who hoards and we go, that's really unhealthy. We kind of do that in the digital world, we hoard our options. We're endlessly scrolling, we hoard our experiences, because we want to escape from the limits of human existence.” [8:25] Ken talks about the importance of exercising the discipline muscle because, “once it's gone, it's really hard to get back, and it's so critical in life.” [9:41] Brad talks about how he’s noticed that often he will use his phone as a way to fill dead space and prevent boredom. “Why do I feel the need to pick up my phone? When there's a dead space? Why can't I just allow this space to happen? And be okay with not having to entertain my mind right now?” [10:23] Bob discusses the fact that, “boredom is our brain processing”. [11:29] Ken adds that your subconscious does process things through sleeping or just when your conscious is not focused or actively doing something. [12:42] Bob reads a segment from his book and talks about two other ways to remain human in the digital world, “the second one is staying human means accepting limitations. All of the things that in the real world take time, it takes accepting our limitations in order to create something beautiful.”... “Staying human means coming to terms with the mystery and paradox of humanity.” [17:05] Brad mentions the idea that remaining human in this digital space is not only about what you consume but also how you present yourself. [20:27] Ken discusses the adage, “with great power comes great responsibility.” and how it applies to technology. [25:47] Bob reads a section of his book and breaks down the idea that “Staying human also means you don't always get what you want.” and how technology has conditioned our society to believe that we can have whatever we want whenever we want because there are no boundaries to what we can do with technology. [32:04] Bob talks about how each of his three kids have grown up in different eras of technology and how it has impacted each of their lives individually. He also talks about some of the rules he and his family have to help them remain human and reduce the time they spend on screens. [43:15] Ken asks, “As professionals in this industry, what can we do? To not help hurt the situation, but improve the situation? How do we put boundaries on what we do to be part of the solution and not the problem and still do business?” [43:58] Bob discusses the importance of giving a genuine experience to your customers that is human and natural that doesn’t exploit their weaknesses through technology. [45:35] Ken entertains the idea of, “Putting reasonable limits on the unlimited. Put even limits on E commerce. I was thinking in my head, like, what if we shut down websites at 9pm? Like should websites close?” [49:40] Bob wraps up by informing listeners that they can purchase Our Digital Soul on Amazon for fifteen dollars. “We're the number one release in the psychology section for about a week and a half. It's called Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery. You can go to our digital soul.com If you want to know more, or you can just search it up on Amazon.” | |||
| 08 Sep 2021 | Ep 87: Let’s go deep on ecommerce | 01:03:04 | |
Summary: In today's episode, we dive into the evolving world of ecommerce. Every agency should be executing their services on their own business to gain valuable experience and learn how to truly innovate. There’s no way to truly innovate if all you do is work on other people’s projects. We talk about channel diversification and marketing diversification. Although Facebook ads and Amazon can be helpful tools, you don’t want a primary source of your revenue dependent on 3rd parties. Ecommerce is more complicated than most people think and we jump into the advanced side of the pool today.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:58] Bob opens today’s episode with a quick chat about last week’s episode. [2:28] Bob begins today’s conversation about ecommerce. [3:15] Ken talks about Black Friday and some of his expectations for it and the future of ecommerce. [4:47] Ken discusses his philosophy that, “Every agency should be doing ecommerce themselves” [5:02] Ken mentions how important it is to effectively plan for the holiday season, especially when it comes to ecommerce. [6:19] Bob says that it is crucial for agencies to develop their own products so that they can experiment with ecommerce and gain some valuable experience. [6:43] Ken talks about how, “Innovation takes failing” [10:14] Brad discusses how addictive ecommerce can be.“It's so addictive, when it's working” [12:52] Ken talks about the amount of risk he believes an agency should take regarding ecommerce and marketing. “If you're running Facebook ads, you have no control over the revenue, or if someone buys. All you have control over is can I get someone to click on this thing… You're walking into a potential minefield, and that’s bad.” [16:27] Ken discusses the true complexity of ecommerce and some of the factors that influence it. “It is a lot more complicated than people think… There's a perception that ecommerce is just like a magic slot machine.” [22:04] Ken talks about the three stages of ecommerce he typically sees. [24:46] Ken breaks down the issue of measuring a business by their lifetime value. [25:41] Brad asks, “What percentage is ecommerce driving revenues for most customers?” [27:15] Ken discusses how, “The platform that you can control the most or the channel you can control the most needs to be the biggest channel. And that's ecommerce.” [28:33] Bob asks how the Amazon effect impacts those in ecommerce. [34:06] Ken talks about how having a unique brand is vital when trying to transition from selling on Amazon to selling on your ecommerce site. “Brand specifically plays a role in increasing the value.” [35:43] Bob says that an agency should, “Never ever, ever build your e commerce strategy on a platform that you do not own and control.” [44:59] Brad asks what platforms Ken would suggest for agencies who are getting started on their own ecom. [50:50] Bob uses two analogies to drive home the importance of having your ecom primarily on a site or platform that you control and that competition is not a personal thing but rather a part of business. [54:51] Bob summarizes his two takeaways from this week’s episode. “Start thinking competitively versus being dependent.”... “Have a short term vision and goal for ecommerce, have a midterm and then have a long term vision goal.” [1:01:12] Brad talks about his agency, Anthem Republic. “You can find us at anthemrepublic.com and you can see the type of work we do there, the clients that we work for, some case studies, and a lot of fun videos on how we think.” [1:01:35] Ken talks about his hybrid agency, Metacake. “Our hybrid agency is metacake.com. We have a store at store.metacake.com where you can see some of our t-shirts and apparel and those kinds of things. We also have a YouTube channel.” [1:02:14] Bob wraps up today’s episode by talking about his agency, Five by Five. “I'm at 5by5agency.com and we do lots of different things. But we primarily focus on research, strategy, ecommerce, marketing, and creative.” | |||
| 26 May 2023 | Ep 131: How to 10x your prices | 00:39:50 | |
Subtitle: Take a moment to think about any famous, successful company. (Apple, Tesla, Google, Facebook, etc). One thing that most people think about when they think about a successful company is profit; how much money do they make, and how do so many people pay so much money for their products? We definitely don’t have a simple solution, but instead, a few ways you can break out of your box and increase your prices and therefore profits. We break down mindset, communication, commodities and how to not be one, defining your unique strengths, strategy, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: In the episode, the guys discuss the importance of raising prices in a business, particularly during times of economic instability. They acknowledge that many business owners may feel hesitant to increase prices, but argue that it's necessary for sustainable growth and profitability. One of the key points the guys make is the importance of understanding the mindset of the customer. Brad emphasizes the need to communicate the value that a business provides to its customers, which can help support higher prices. Ken stresses the importance of not becoming a commodity and argues that higher prices benefit all parties involved, as it ensures that businesses are able to provide quality service and remain sustainable over the long term. Bob offers a few questions that can help business owners focus on promoting the human elements of their work and expertise, such as "What differentiates me as a person?" and "What makes me an expert in these areas?" He also encourages business owners to work on their attitudes of scarcity and abundance mindsets, which can influence their perceived ability to raise prices. Ken advises business owners to focus on their unique strengths and passions and use those to differentiate themselves from competitors. He suggests taking away the label "agency" from a business and finding ways to break out of the box to become more unique. Bob talks about the importance of recognizing that not every prospective client is a good fit for a business and that it's important to not devalue oneself for the sake of gaining clients who are unwilling to pay what one's worth. Throughout the episode, the guys offer actionable advice and strategies that can help business owners raise their prices successfully. They also highlight the importance of mindset and attitude in achieving this goal, as well as the need to differentiate oneself from competitors and communicate the value that a business provides to its customers.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:59] Ken opens this week’s episode by introducing the topic, increasing your prices. [2:17] Bob asks important questions in light of recent economic instability. “How do you raise prices? How often? And how do you do it?” [3:34] Brad discusses the importance of understanding the mindset of the customer and communicating value to them. [4:34] Ken talks about the importance of not becoming a commodity, and how higher prices benefit all parties involved. “It's a perpetual spin to the bottom, I think it's bad for everybody. you can't be a commodity.” [8:00] Bob says that it’s crucial to focus on and promote the human elements versus technology and offers some questions to help your business get there. “I think people buy expertise. What differentiates me as a person? Why am I unique? And why am I an expert in these areas? And why can I be a fit for you and what your needs are?” [9:29] Ken discusses the importance of public perception. “The way you don't be a commodity is you become the only option.” [13:43] Brad talks about an element of customer empathy that sets his business apart from others and the success they’ve seen from it. [15:46] Ken discusses the role that founders and their values play in becoming ‘the only one’. “My advice to myself, is to lean in, figure out what it is that you love, and what you're better at than anyone in the world.” [17:28] Bob brings up the importance of mindset and attitude and how they can influence your ability to increase your prices. “I would challenge you to work on your own attitudes of scarcity, and abundance mindsets. That's really at the heart of being able to raise prices regularly without pain and without struggle.” [18:34] Ken breaks down some important questions to break out of the scarcity mindset. [21:19] Bob talks about the importance of two ways you can narrow down; you as a person and your niche. [24:32] Ken discusses the value in taking away the label “agency” from your business and how that will help you break out of the box and become unique. “I would propose that the biggest barrier to raising prices and to charging more is yourself… you need to charge more and not do more.” [27:29] Bob reveals and dives deep into three things that will make you more valuable. “There's three things in my opinion that I've observed, that you need to focus on that will make you valuable; it's knowledge, strategy, and attribution.” [30:22] Ken dives deep into the value behind not calling yourself an agency; it only creates limits for your business. “I think you immediately limit yourself, and you call yourself an agency or a marketing agency or an advertiser, whatever it is website development, because it's commoditized. You got to change the name to change the game.” [32:37] Ken suggests a mental exercise and series of questions to help your business break out of the mental limitations holding you back from increasing your prices. [35:16] Bob talks about the importance of recognizing that not every prospective client that walks through your door should be a client you serve. “I'm not going to devalue myself for the sake of getting this immediate, quick dollar, when they're not willing to pay what I'm worth.” [37:03] Ken wraps up by discussing a quote he heard. “Once someone realizes that you need them, they realize that they don't need you.”
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| 14 Jul 2023 | Ep 133: Don’t build a prison; build a business | 00:48:50 | |
Subtitle: It’s a freestyle Friday so you know some secrets to success are about to be dropped. The guys dive deep into the importance of building a business that serves you first, the secret recipe to the foundation of a successful business, insightful books and psychological principles, the idea of practitioners v.s. owners, and more on this exciting episode!
Summary: This week’s episode is a freestyle Friday! The guys discuss their recent endeavors. Ken shares that he is actively pursuing his vision and leveraging his abilities to align his life and business with what he truly desires. He specifically talks about the challenges of pursuing personal vision in a service-oriented business, where one can often prioritize clients' needs over their own aspirations. Brad contributes to the conversation by highlighting how personal vision and desires change over time. He explains that as individuals age, their businesses may no longer fulfill them, prompting them to question their motivations and purpose. Bob adds to the discussion by emphasizing the roles of self-awareness and crystallized intelligence in shaping one's interests and vision. He suggests that these factors play a significant role in the shift of personal goals and interests. Ken takes the conversation further by discussing the notion of a midlife crisis, suggesting that individuals may feel trapped in what they have built, leading to a sense of confinement and dissatisfaction. He emphasizes the importance of ensuring that one's business serves them first, similar to the concept of putting on your own oxygen mask before assisting others. The idea of having a calling or mission in life is introduced by Ken, who believes that certain talents within him need to be expressed better. He asserts that if his business does not align with this calling, it is not serving him adequately. The guys delve into the foundation and core of a business, debating whether it is based on people, the balance sheet, the idea, or the vision. They explore the distinction between being business practitioners and being business owners who possess a broader understanding of business principles and can apply them across different industries. They also discuss the significance of values, mission, and culture in establishing a strong foundation for a business. Bob argues that lacking this foundation can lead to becoming enslaved by the business rather than serving a greater cause. Ken introduces the book "Who Moved My Cheese," drawing psychological principles from it to emphasize the importance of being intentional about having a business that serves oneself first in order to provide better service to clients. The conversation touches upon the idea that true enjoyment cannot be derived from tasks performed solely for survival or necessity. They discuss the importance of investing in culture and foundational principles for long-term success and fulfillment. Each participant reflects on their personal visions, plans, and goals. Ken acknowledges that he is still in pursuit of his desired reality, emphasizing the need to leverage one's talents in the right ways. Brad shares his recent realization about the importance of contentment and being present in the journey. Bob concludes the conversation by emphasizing that individuals are doing their best with the resources they have and that a shift in internal perspective is necessary to move forward effectively.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:13] Bob suggests that the guys do a freestyle Friday, beginning a conversation about what the guys have been working on recently. [1:36] Ken talks about how he’s pursuing his vision of where he needs to be, leveraging his abilities better, and doing what he wants to be doing in life and business. [3:54] Ken continues to talk about how to pursue your vision for yourself in a service business and the accompanying challenges. “Because the nature of a service business is to get clients and build things and serve them and do things for other people. You might end up doing a bunch of things for the people and never doing the things that you wanted to.” [5:35] Brad discusses how your vision for yourself and what you want to be doing changes over time. “You get to a point in your age where your business no longer fulfills anymore. And then you have to go through a process of understanding ‘why do I do what I do?’” [8:06] Bob talks about the roles of self awareness and crystallized intelligence and how they impact the shift of interest and vision. [10:32] Ken concludes that this shift often results in the creation of a midlife crisis. He also discusses the truth of the idea that you become trapped inside what you build. “I imagine those midlife crisis moments are because you feel trapped, and you just at some point break… You literally build your own prison. And that's a scary feeling.” [15:14] Ken segues into the way to break out of this prison; make sure it serves you first. “If my business does not serve me first, how could I possibly be healthy enough to serve you? It's the oxygen mask concept.” [15:55] Ken says that, “I believe I have a calling in life. And I can't describe it, but there are certain talents inside of me that I feel need to be expressed better. And I can't describe it any other way than a calling or a mission. And so if my business is not doing that it's not serving me.” [18:16] Brad asks the guys what they think their business is, at its foundation and core. Essentially, is your business the people, balance sheet, idea, vision, etc? [21:48] Ken talks about the idea that many agency owners are business practitioners versus owners (they are serving people and are good at their craft). He argues that a business owner is a master of the principles of business and can apply those principles in any type of business. “Principles are principles, because they're universal. And so a business needs to make a certain number of bounded profit, whether it's an agency or it's Verizon.” [22:28] Bob discusses the importance of values, mission, and culture, and how having a strong foundation of these things prevents you from building your own prison. “If you don't have that strong foundation of this is our vision and this is the mission of why we exist, you're gonna fall into that eventually, and you become a slave to it versus I'm serving a bigger cause bigger than myself. I think that at its core, that's what's really missing in people's lives.” [28:13] Ken begins a conversation about a book called, Who Moved My Cheese, and applies the psychological principles discussed in it to being intentional that your business serves you first so that you can better serve your clients. [30:08] Ken talks about the idea that, “you will not enjoy anything you have to do. So if you're in a business where you have to do this thing to survive, you have to serve this client this way just to survive. That's never going to be the best end result for you or the customer.” [31:48] Bob tells a story about a new client of his and how this client has prioritized investing into his foundational principles, values, and culture, as well as his strategy and app and how that will set his business up to serve him first, destroying the prison. “I have never seen a company that has invested in culture successfully that has not gone on to be very successful, and very fulfilling for the people who work in it.” [35:44] Brad asks the guys where they feel like they are at in their personal visions, plans, and goals for themselves. [37:25] Ken talks about his perspective on where he’s at in his vision. “I try to be intentional. I've always had a desire to pursue a certain type of reality. But I don't believe that I'm fully fulfilling it right now. But I don't think that that's a failure. I think it's a pursuit. When it feels like I'm not acting on something that I should, it's like, I've got this you know, all star baseball arm, but I'm just like I'll do that in 10 years. There's this feeling of like, um, you're not leveraging you're not really like living out the talents that you have in the right ways and pursuing them.” He also talks about a book, The Gap in the Game, and the idea of measuring backwards versus comparing yourself against an ideal. [43:27] Brad discusses his journey in realizing the importance of contentment. “What I've learned recently is that I'll never be where I want to be. So I have to understand that I have to be present, and I have to be content without being there.” [45:14] Bob closes with his thoughts on where he’s at and the idea that most people are doing the best they can with what they have. “We only see the world as we are internally. And until we shift our own internal perspective, however that happens, we’re really doing the best we can and we believe that we’re doing what is right to get us where we need to go.”
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| 17 Mar 2021 | Ep 64: Is your Value Proposition... Valuable? With guest Jody Sutter, Agency Coach | 00:51:59 | |
Summary: Jody Sutter is the owner and founder of The Sutter Company, a NYC-based consulting company that helps agency leaders tap into their strengths, clarify their strategy, and close more business. Through decades of experience in sales and operations for creative firms, Jody uniquely understands how to help agencies overcome their struggles with business development. In today’s episode, we dig into Jody’s philosophy on creating deep value in your agency’s offerings and honing your value proposition. Stay tuned!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Jody Sutter: Jody Sutter is a business development coach with 25 years’ experience working with ad agencies and marketing firms. As the owner and founder of The Sutter Company, a consulting company based in New York City, Jody helps agency leaders get the attention of new prospects and win the right kind of business for their agencies. Before running business development teams at large agencies like R/GA, OMD, and Havas, Jody spent over a decade in sales for a range of creative services firms, from branding design to digital advertising.
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:37] Bob welcomes us to today’s episode and today’s guest Jody Sutter. [2:12] Bob gives a brief summary of Jody’s business. Her website is thesuttercompany.com, and he describes what Jody’s business is all about. Before running business development teams at large agencies like R/GA, OMD, & Havas, Jody spent over a decade in sales for a range of firms, generating leads and building relationships that led to new revenue. [2:41] Jody is calling from East Hampton, NY and works from home primarily. [3:57] Bob asks Jody for a brief rundown in her agency experience. [4:09] Jody says that she worked for production companies in NYC, working in sales and carting film reels around the city. Eventually she decided to get a job for a small internet marketing company called iVillage. Eventually that sales role developed into more consultative selling, and iVillage went from a negative revenue to over $12M in revenue.
[7:35] Jody continues, saying that one of her goals was to be able to show agencies that what the client says isn’t always right. There is value in challenging what they think and what they’re trying to do, and she quotes her website: “controlling an agency’s business development destiny.”
[8:45] Jody says that she works primarily with founders who want to grow their businesses and customize their growth for their agency in particular. [9:10] Ken asks about her philosophy behind consultative selling, and some practical things that people can do to improve their numbers. [9:55] Jody says that most agencies are viewed as expert providers. It is refreshing for clients to have agencies who come in to projects with fresh eyes, new questions and ideas for meeting their goals. Sometimes this may catch the client’s off-guard and be overwhelming, so there is an art to this. Clients may be interested in an RFP instead of talking directly to the agency, and in this case a 15-minute conversation can often cover what would be in a 150-page RFP. [11:47] Jody continues, saying that having these difficult conversations is a matter of challenging their assumptions, offering how you’ve applied your experience to similar problems, and seeing if it culminates in a moment of the client saying, “Yes I want to talk about this right now.” [12:01] Ken says that over the years there has been a shift to free consultation—and economics isn’t the problem. But when you offer information at no cost, you’re setting up the relationship for expectations that you can’t meet. [12:39] Brad says that often there can be a mindset of doing what the client asks no matter what, and asks Jody what that pushback may look like for her in the way she deals with clients. [13:12] Jody says that the line between pushing back and pushing away can be very fine. Often agencies will sink in hours of research into a client before ever reaching out. [14:40] Jody talks about narrowing down her vision for the clients that she wants to pitch: she gathers information about other similar clients and makes intelligent assumptions about what may or may not work. This assumption is backed up by the projects that she has already worked on and improved—this is a tailored pitch that does not require a ton of research upfront. [15:45] Ken talks about something we mention often here on Agency Exposed, the need to be repeatable. There is deep value in taking your learnings, leveraging them and figuring out how to repeat them in other situations. [16:29] Brad asks Jody about getting a new client in an industry that you haven’t worked in before. How can you prove to potential clients that you can help them even if you don’t have direct experience? [17:06] Jody says that you should aim to become a great storyteller. Maybe the product has the same target audience, and you can incorporate your deep knowledge of that customer base and let the client know that you already understand their customers well.
[18:50] Jody talks about when your agency may be in the running against 50 other agencies in a giant RFP that is sent out; you know that you will likely not be the top choice, so it’s a great idea to leverage this situation in your favor even if you don’t get the client at the end. [19:35] Ken asks Jody to dive into this more. He asks about strategies to strategically respond in a way that will market your agency for the future. [19:55] Jody responds, saying to take 15 minutes with your leadership team to ask/answer questions like, “Why are we going after this? What is going to be most appealing about our capabilities? What does the client need? How do we marry these things together to get the message across to our client?” [20:50] Jody adds another suggestion, saying it’s a bit bold but consider submitting a 3-page document where you tell the client that you know they most likely won’t pick you, but highlight the value props and ask for a time to connect after they’ve chosen someone for that particular RFP. You may not get that big project with them, but you are planting seeds for the future. [21:20] Bob says that over the years, he’s experienced a lot working with various agencies. He talks about the growth model for many agencies, where they grow and grow but hit a ceiling at around $3-$4M in revenue. [23:35] Jody says that it all rolls back to what you do, who you serve, and what difference you make for them. When you have clarity on this, the materials that you use to sell will become an integral part of your value proposition. This will help develop standards, and with those standards come the prospect of scalability. [25:03] Brad refers back to a common discussion here at Agency Exposed: in business you can be the cheapest, the only or the best. He asks, “How do you become ‘the Only,’ where you have a silver bullet that no one else has?” [26:31] Jody: “I think it comes down to a certain amount of confidence and courage to say that you’re going to make this commitment to this thing that you’re good at.” This also sends a signal to your team that it’s okay to do this, and then you can really begin to dig in and figure out what makes you different. [27:39] Ken talks about how there is a theme of full-service offerings in agencies, and this is based on a scarcity mindset. If you let go of that scarcity mindset, you give yourself permission to truly specialize down and get specific—and then scale! [29:03] Jody says that the pressure to perform definitely creates willingness for clients to hire agencies that are specialists. There is a gap that needs to be filled and agencies with that specialization are going to be worth taking a chance on. [30:57] Ken talks about how Metacake decided to specialize in Ecommerce back in 2015, and when that happened their value proposition and scalability went through the roof.
[31:57] Bob says that by zooming in on the client side you can get that laser-focus as well. The point is to find something to differentiate yourself and find something to specialize in that allows you to niche-down. [33:00] Ken says that it is very difficult to create a value proposition if you haven’t specialized in some way. [33:56] Jody talks about a 2-day workshop that she does with a new agency client. On the first day they work on an elevator pitch, which is less conceptual and has certain components. She breaks down those components throughout the day so that when the time for the elevator pitch comes, the information and basics are already laid out. [37:06] Ken asks Jody what some of those elements might be. [37:10] Jody responds: “What is your Identifier? What is your Differentiator? What are some valuable client insights?” [39:02] Jody continues, saying these elements that make up your elevator pitch are truly the underpinnings of your value. “What you understand about those clients is why they come to you, because it’s going to reduce the risk of hiring an agency that doesn't know those clients, it’s going to mean that they have less ramp-up time to teach you what their industry is all about.”
[41:15] Ken talks about the people behind the businesses—people with their own personal, psychological motivations that need to be fulfilled. And fulfilling these is truly the goal. [42:13] Bob says that sales people often forget that they are selling psychological needs to other human beings; there is a need to be empathetic and vulnerable so that you can build human connection in an authentic way. [44:00] Jody talks about techniques for outreach that develop that connection. Think of that person you’re calling as less of an almighty perfect client, but another human being and acquaintance instead of a complete stranger. [46:00] Brad asks Jody about her predictions and perspective about what the industry will look like in the next five years. [46:30] Jody says that the idea of an in-house agency will continue to be important. She predicts micro-specializations where agencies partner with other agencies and there is a sort of fragmentation. [49:20] Bob asks Jody where listeners can learn more about her and connect. [49:22] Jody responds: www.thesuttercompany.com “Start here” page for a 45-minute complimentary consultation.
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| 17 Jun 2020 | Ep 25: How can you speed up your AR? [Special Events Episode] | 00:54:20 | |
Summary: While we certainly don’t have solutions for all the issues we face, we know that we are ALL facing similar issues. So, we discuss them openly as well as our current strategies for dealing with them. One big issue is the slow down in B2B purchasing (i.e. agency services). Most companies just aren’t starting new projects, even in the most thriving industries. The uncertainty has caused a hesitation in the face of thriving business at times. While this certainly won’t last, what can you do to create certainty and close new business? These situations don’t mean that your business has to suffer. We know getting your discussion and sharing is one of the quickest paths to finding solutions. Today’s episode covers several topics as we see how the myriad of current events affect business. We talk products, lead flow, how to speed up accounts receivables, and more.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
Connect with us:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:15] Bob intros new series about current events and how they may or may not apply to everyday life or business. [1:50] Brad speaks about the happenings in his hometown of Detroit in recent weeks. With the BLM movement spurring peaceful and not-so-peaceful protests around the country, he takes a moment to reflect on people around him who are participating. [3:20] Ken talks about the same in his hometown of Queens. “I feel like the world is groaning in a lot of ways, I think you see that with race issues, with Covid-19… There will always be problems, but there will always be good that comes out of these problems.”
[5:31] Bob reflects on the writings of philosopher Phyllis Tickle, who believes that you can see a pattern of massive shifts in civilizations every 500 years, and that’s where we are right now. [6:15] Ken talks about the fundamental foundations of the cycles of life- they exist on long-term, short-term, daily scales. This is a part of the way that we learn more about business as well as life.
[8:23] Brad talks about how that pruning is super painful when it comes to business- letting people go who are not truly in line with your company ethos. [9:05] Bob: “As we’ve been looking at the markets… talking about what does it mean to close deals and stay alive and pivot… there is some counterintuitive growth happening, the markets are up, employment is up… Brad what do you make of that?” [9:57] Brad speaks about how employment numbers are up, which is surprising but comforting. “I think that consumers haven't lost their confidence, mainly because there hasn’t been a big enough pinch yet… extra unemployment runs out in July, so people have the means to survive. If we get enough jobs through the summer, I think we’ll be okay.” [11:32] Bob asks Ken about the numbers from HubSpot. [11:50] Ken: Stresses the reason this podcast was created in the first place- to peel back the veil behind business and agency ownership. Now is as good a time as ever to be really transparent about these things.
[15:17] Bob asks about deals they have worked on or closed in the last month. Were they started before Covid, as a result of Covid, etc? [15:19] Ken responds that most of them are currently a response to Covid. “In our experience, the situation has created an awareness of a problem or an opportunity that they need to go after, so our inquiries have been up.” [16:40] Brad asks what sort of questions people are asking. [17:00] Ken says that many have intuitions or instincts that there is opportunity that they should be going after, and they want to see that through. With the world telling them that they shouldn’t be taking risks, it can be a challenge to get people to act on that intuition. [17:50] Bob adds that there are also a lot of people who realize that ecommerce is important and are just now looking into it, only to realize the expense involved and the work that is required. [18:35] Ken: Speaks about his direct experience talking with companies who have not made the move to fully invest in ecomm- suddenly the “website guy” is the most powerful person in the room and budget is being allocated to them and they don’t want to mess up that opportunity. So there is a lot of trepidation and information-collecting. [19:15] Bob: Asks Ken about how to educate people on the importance of ecommerce and building a strong strategic foundation online. [19:40] Ken talks about Metacake’s 2-part strategy for education.
[21:50] Brad asks what percent of inquiries are new business versus established business. [21:55] Ken responds that it’s a 70/30 split, with 70% being new businesses and 30% being established businesses. [23:30] Ken continues speaking about services vs purpose. It’s so important that businesses aren’t based on the services that you provide, but the value that you’re offering and the purpose that you’re serving. [25:45] Brad speaks about the pain of hearing from a great business that simply can’t afford the services you offer, and how it has become a mission for Anthem to create products that can meet people in whatever level they’re at, whatever they’re able to afford. [26:30] Ken: There’s a big risk as well in making a product affordable. There’s a risk of cheapening the value of what you’re offering if you don’t charge enough. This may result in setting the customer up for not succeeding, which hurts the relationship long-term as well as the business. [28:05] Ken: “There are 3 types of people- my money for me, my money for somebody else, somebody else’s money for me, or somebody’s money for somebody else.”
[29:00] Bob: “It’s better to make the client uncomfortable in the beginning so that you can guarantee success, versus taking what they have and not being sure if you can be successful from that amount.”
[31:03] Brad speaks about being uncomfortable when clients aren’t getting their money’s worth in the services he is offering. Sometimes it is simply best for them to work with a different company, whether that be due to the product or other factors. [31:16] Ken adds that agencies often tend to take on things that they can’t control. “Success is doing what you said you would at a very high level… sometimes that mean you can produce an end result that dramatically affects their business, that’s great.”
[32:40] Bob says that if you don’t get that definition of success clear in the beginning, more than 50% of the time your definition is different from theirs. [33:45] Ken talks about how it takes a really specific personality type to do this well and consistently ingrain it into the relationship. [34:45] Bob: Break that success down into weekly, monthly, yearly increments so that you have built-in benchmarks for measuring that and touching base about it. [35:45] Brad talks about Anthem’s sales philosophy. They do have strong funnels developed for cold calls but most of the business he’s been in has been based on a relationship with another human. More recent leads that have been coming in have not required “game playing” to understand whether they are a good fit or not. [38:57] Brad continues talking about “tire kickers” or potential clients who are asking a lot of questions without taking business seriously. This leads to a lot of investment of time and energy- but recently with the Covid 19 pandemic, there are less tire kickers around. [40:00] Bob asks if there are potential clients who are sitting on contracts and “stalling.” [41:02] Brad talks about the “sticky situation” of having loyal clients that are not able to pay on time during this time. When there is no communication from them even though the relationship is strong, it’s hard to know how to draw that line. [42:25] Ken talks about how ultimately this is a situation that comes down to respect. “We do largely electronic payment, and this is the number one reason why.” Payment scheduled that is agreed upon in advance. “If there is a situation that comes up, let us know.” [45:04] Ken continues: “It benefits both sides when you don’t have to worry about that… it’s a distraction, right? If you’re worrying about how you pay your bills, and you have to go chase people… that’s all a bunch of mental energy and physical energy that you can’t put into your projects.” [48:27] Brad: “We do spend more time than we need to chasing money, and asking and trying to get our invoices paid…” [48:58] Ken talks about invoicing and how the idea of monthly scheduled payments are revolutionary but really shouldn’t be. We don’t walk into restaurants, eat, then tell them to send us an invoice 30 days later.
[50:40] Ken talks about having a mentor tell him that the agency “style” of floating large payments for 30, 60, 90 days at a time is old and outdated- and ultimately people simply couldn’t make their business last. [51:21] Bob chimes in that as your business grows, the danger of that increases. “In today’s volatility… your clients and yourself could be $100K or one $50K invoice away from closing your doors.” [52:05] Ken talks about how it’s not so much a pat on the back but this is a large pain point for so many, and finding a solution at ground-level to prevent that from snowballing out of control has always been priority. “There is old culture and tradition that had to be broken away… simple technology issues… why are agencies not in the 21st century?”
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| 08 Jul 2020 | Ep 28: Working with Other Agencies to Grow Your Business with guest Jon Tsourakis | 00:56:04 | |
Summary: We all want new streams of new business, and today’s guest shares how they were able to build a healthy business serving other agencies. We’ve talked about the value of partnerships and collaboration with other agencies as a source of new business before and Oyova is a prime example of that. We also discuss the pros and cons of having business partners. And we get another look at how an agency is dealing with the effects of COVID-19. Tune in as Jon shares his experiences (good and bad) with business partners, talks about the impact that technology has had on his career journey, how Oyova has held up during the last 6 months of extreme disruption, and what he expects of the remainder of 2020.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Jon Tsourakis: President and co-owner of Oyova, a Florida-based, full-service technology and marketing agency. He is the leader of a Mastermind for Digital Agencies and host of “The Climb”, a podcast where agency owners and marketing leaders tune in to get growth tips and strategies for growing their businesses.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:08] Ken introduces our guest, Jon Tsourakis. President and co-owner of Oyova, a technology and marketing agency. John is in charge of sales and marketing while his partner handles the production and operation of the business. They’re based in St. Petersburg, FL. John also leads a digital mastermind group for agencies. [2:52] Bob asks John to tell us about his agency. [3:01] John responds: There are about 30 people on their team between two offices. They focus predominantly (60%) of their business on development. They also do marketing services for companies that are over $2 million, all shapes and sizes above that. In addition they work with a lot of agencies and help with their overflow work. [3:38] Bob: “Is it full service? Do you specialize in anything specifically?”
[4:20] Ken: “It sounds to me like you are specialized, it’s just not industry specialization… one of your specialties seems to be this relationship with agencies. [4:50] Brad asks if the work they do for other agencies is mostly dev work. [4:58] John responds that 90% of what they do is dev work. “A lot of agencies will have one or two developers on their staff… but that’s just not in their wheelhouse, so we come in a fill that gap.” [6:05] John: “I would say it’s probably 85% of agencies that don’t have a super deep tech bench. They’re very focused and specialized and they have a developer that can wear some other hats…” but ultimately most of them don’t have the experience in development that his agency can add. [6:28] Bob: “I’m curious to know of the agencies that you work with- are they typically traditional older agencies? Are they digital agencies that don’t have the depth? Are they hybrids? What does your client makeup look like?” [6:47] John: “Some of them have just moved away from paper in the last few years and have embraced what the internet is… other are very advanced platinum HubSpot partners that just run into situations that are outside of what they’re great at… there are others that are amazing design agencies that have really good front end developers who run into overflow that they will send to us because they know we can take care of it.”
[7:45] Ken talks about recent episodes about cost and pricing. Oyova serves agencies, and one of the things they have to accommodate for is cost. Agencies are selling at a certain price that you have no control over, so cost has to be below that. “How do you make that model work?” [8:07] Jon responds- cost is definitely a factor. They sell everything in blocks of hours, so the more hours you purchase then the lower your cost will be. Some agencies buy a LOT of hours, just to have access to their team.
[9:26] Brad asks about billing- do they bill the client directly, or do you bill through the parent agency you’re working with?”
[9:55] Bob asks if they have built this model intentionally and whether they aim primarily for agencies or individual clients. [10:09] Jon gives a brief history of how he and his business partner met. It was an accidental discovery at first, they were a marketing agency with two developers, they’d get overflow from other agencies and then after 8 years realized it was a great business model. [11:57] Ken asks Jon for a deeper history of his business relationship with his partner and the pros and cons of that relationship. He also asks about what Jon expects for the next few months within his company. First, Jon’s story. [12:28] Jon: His father was a master carpenter and builder, so he was part of the family business. He met a guy at school that had a marketing company that worked in the healthcare space. He worked with this guy for a while, and in 2009 he decided to start his own agency.
[15:16] Jon continues: “For years, we’ve just been fighting the good fight, trying to be an agency in a world of sameness, create differentiation… a merger sounded like a really good idea based on the technology depth and the strategic advantage of being a strong partner.” [16:13] The guys ask for details about that bad partner relationship.
[17:22] Bob asks for some advice based on those learning experiences. [17:37] Jon: “The direct and gentle communication… he just couldn’t deal with people.” Do business with someone who you wouldn’t mind getting a phone call from on a Saturday morning. You have to LIKE the person you’re working with. [18:12] Ken confirms that concept of direct and gentle communication- even in the face of disrespect in return, you always have to respond in a direct and gentle manner. It’s really about basic respect. [18:40] Brad asks for advice for how to approach things in a direct and gentle way while things are heated or when there is stress in the company. What does that mindset shift look like? [20:13] Brad asks how they manage clients who are very reliant on them, who are more attached than an agency would be.
[22:25] Bob asks about the longest contract they have that an agency brought to them.
[23:06] Brad talks about how the more you’re in bed with technology that drives revenue for your client… “there’s always a fear that you’re going to get canned… because you become a commodity.” [24:32] Brad asks “What kind of stuff do you do in the development world?” [28:00] Ken asks how the last few months have been managed for Jon. What was it like in the beginning of quarantine, what was it like through that process, and how has business gone since then, and if any of these things have changed how they run overall. [29:10] Jon: The theme of 2020 was going to be The Climb, and it turned out to be more true than they thought. They came up with a plan over Zoom, and decided to stay focused on clients, closing business as much as possible. They realized very quickly that their team could definitely perform and provide results from home, and have surprised themselves with their productivity. [31:52] Brad affirms that it’s been hard- and congratulates Jon on their success through Covid. [32:40] Ken: “What area of your business grew? Was it new business or existing business? Is there a difference there?” [34:14] Jon talks about how they were able to extend or increase their marketing packages, they really talked up this being “the time” to invest in online business. If you come to the table with logical, competent people and a plan, you’re set up for the highest chance of success! [36:12] Jon talks about what the next 6 months might look like. “The path forward and the recession is going to be different for everyone. There’s going to be pocket recessions based on specific industries. And some aren’t going to feel it at all.” [37:00] Ken asks how this may change going forward, and what sort of opportunities he might see. [37:12] Jon talks about how the challenge of Covid is actually exciting for him, although he feels guilty about that at times. Business owners have been really lucky over the last 10 years, so now you really get to see what you’re made of.
[38:30] Ken asks “How can you package up what you actually are selling in different ways?” This is something that Metacake has done well through the quarantine. [39:42] Brad asks if there are any new products or service offerings that have come up during Covid for Jon’s company.
[40:20] Brad asks what sort of packages of services other than development Oyova offers. [40:39] Jon: Other than the mastermind group, one event per year that is a collective knowledge base. “I think creating that space for all these agencies to come together and just be open and share and be transparent is important.”
[50:44] Ken: “You’ve built really high quality relationship with agencies that you get a sustainable business model through… how do you do that?” [51:28] JOn: “If you connect with somebody and build relationships that are genuine, you can go a long way.” [52:31] Brad asks about generating new business, and their business development process. [52:38] Jon talks about the three P’s: Positive, Persistent Pressure. If you have the right message and continually follow up with the people on that list, you’ll find them.” [53:27] Brad asks what Jon has done to become a thought leader in his space. “What kinds of things do you do to promote yourself to new clients? | |||
| 23 Jun 2021 | Ep 78: Will AI take over internet marketing? (Title written by AI) | 01:01:23 | |
Summary: In this week’s episode, we explore the scientific world of AI and specifically AI copywriting. We discuss the pros and cons of AI in marketing and life. Throughout this episode, we dissect the importance of the human element, truth in marketing, the future, and false narratives. We also breakdown the difference between machine learning and AI. Although AI can eliminate tedious tasks and create opportunities for more creativity, there has to be a balance because, without failure, we will never improve or grow. It’s important to understand how to apply AI to certain areas of your agency to improve your marketing or make it more efficient while maintaining a genuine customer experience.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:32] Bob opens today’s episode with a chat about Brad’s arm injury after riding his mountain bike as well as other bone breaking incidents. [4:38] Brad begins today’s conversation about AI and how it can enhance marketing strategies. [6:23] Ken mentions that while AI can be a tool for marketing, it also has the ability to do things it should not be doing. [6:42] Brad asks if there is a difference between machine learning and AI. [7:19] Bob explains his interpretation of the difference between programming and artificial intelligence. “Programming a computer to do certain tasks is machine learning. Intelligence is you take those things and ideas and reasoning and put them together and output something that appears to be something that only a human can do.” [8:21] Ken gives his analysis on AI and machine learning. “Almost all AI right now, will use machine learning to get smarter. Machine learning is just taking inputs and adjusting the way you do things based on the results, good or bad, and then improving.” [8:47] Brad points out that because of how advanced AI has become, many people believe that AI will be the demise of the human race. [9:22] Ken mentions how AI can make mistakes and how this poses a danger to society. [10:11] Brad draws a comparison between how advanced AI is today and the movie Minority Report. [10:20] Bob reminds the listeners that “AI can only do what it's programmed to do.” [10:29] Ken points out that while AI can use past data to try to project into the future, only humans have an imagination and can create the future out of nothing. [12:20] Bob talks about how people can understand emotions and nuance while AI can mistake these for things they are not. “Machines only understand ones and zeros, blacks and whites, and yes and nos.” [12:44] Brad mentions that while there can be numerous negative effects to AI, it also has a positive impact on marketing. [14:09] Brad asks, “what have you guys been using that you would consider AI that you felt are valuable in your work?” [14:21] Bob contemplates how often we take AI for granted and the role it plays in everyday life. [16:37] Brad talks about how people always talk about AI from an antagonistic point of view and the fear of AI. [18:45] Bob considers how the narrative about AI may have become twisted and uses sharks as an example. “How many other things in my life do I just assume that that's the narrative? And that's the way it is when actually, well, maybe sharks don't hate humans, and don’t want to bite their arms off every single time. Maybe they're actually kind creatures that we can pat and get to know if we would take the time to do that. I think it’s the same thing with AI.” [19:42] Bob points out that by using AI in a positive way, we can become kinder and more creative. [20:04] Brad talks about how Apple is leading the way with privacy and how focused they are on it. He also questions their reasoning and motivation behind this dedication to privacy. [22:00] Ken talks about how businesses are made to make money and the difference between a nonprofit business and a for profit business. [24:04] Ken talks about how AI is a double edged sword and it takes wisdom and discernment to prevent harm. “The more power the more responsibility” [27:40] Brad chats about how AI and automation can take away jobs and how scary that is. [28:12] Brad considers the future of AI and asks, “Is there a point where your brand will be disingenuous and we know that it's all being generated by AI and it's all fake?” [29:14] Bob talks about how AI can never replace the human element. “What AI can't do is the human element, which is storytelling, nuance, and creativity.” [31:37] Ken contemplates the idea that AI could take over all marketing. [33:56] Ken talks about the challenge to find the truth and determine what is real in AI marketing.“Will the internet become just an AI? A machine? And you don't know what's real and what's not.” [36:37] Brad talks about how our laziness and the convenience of AI doing research for us allows the AI to create the truth. “When I think about people, I think that they're mostly just sheep half the time.” “They don't want a challenge. They just want to take content and repurpose it as truth. [37:39] Bob mentions an email he received about an AI marketing tool. “They have some kind of facial recognition that will tell you people's response during that video and what ads are creating an emotional response and which ones are not.” [39:44] Bob summarizes his opinion on AI and machine learning. [41:20] Brad talks about the importance of human interaction and failure. “If we don't fail in life, we’ll never grow.” [44:13] Ken talks about the pros and cons of AI and how, “it depends on what you measure, in your mind as the most important” [44:43] Ken asks, “if you run an agency, how do you use AI?” [46:59] Ken gives his take on practical application of AI. “as much as you can leverage effectively, you should, without degrading the quality of your work.” [51:54] Brad talks about humanity’s potential and how we are not just data to be analyzed. [53:43] Brad discusses the search for identity and how AI could potentially manipulate that. [56:44] Brad mentions his experience with AI and its impact on the healthcare/telehealth industry. [1:00:06] Brad has one last tip for the listeners. “Even if you're not using a lot of AI in your practice or work, understand AI because every business is going to rely on it. And the more you understand your clients business, the better marketer you're going to be.” | |||
| 21 Oct 2020 | Ep 43: Be Weird w/ Guest CJ Casciotta | 00:55:12 | |
Summary: Our guest CJ Casciotta is a well-known speaker, author, and Tedx alum. Today we talk about what it means to be weird and how embracing that can propel your business into a truly purposeful venture. Everything you do can be knocked off, but your unique weirdness, cannot. At college in Southern California during the birth of YouTube and the Twittersphere, CJ started out helping people develop their brands. Now he’s a brand consultant and has turned his specialities of leaning into purpose on himself- the result is Ringbeller Studios. Today’s episode is going to dig into CJ’s unique value proposition, how embracing his weirdness has turned business into passion, and how you can apply this same technique in your agency.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: CJ Casciotta: Founder of Ringbeller Studios, author of Get Weird, and overall brand-building specialist, CJ resides in Franklin, TN after moving from Southern California. He is the innovative brain behind educational and kid-driven content that does a great job of teaching skills that kids can use every day. His childhood love of the Muppets and Mr Rogers Neighborhood planted a deep desire to create positive change and teach kids kindness and creativity in a way that was palatable for them, meeting kids where they are at, both in the classroom and at home.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:00] Brad introduces today’s guest, CJ Casciotta of RingBeller Studios. They met back in Santa Monica, CA several years ago and both wound up in Franklin, TN.
[5:15] CJ talks about his late college years when YouTube and Twitter first got big and how quickly that changed the landscape. He worked as a freelancer and media producer as a natural flow from college and eventually honed in on branding as a speciality.
[7:18] CJ continues: “Then at some point I kind of woke up and realized I like doing this, but what is my core purpose? What’s my unique point of contributing to the world? And I realized I wasn’t leaning into my personal weirdness…”
[10:05] Bob talks about how The Guys have extensive careers in branding and creating unique visions for their clients, but often the hardest client is yourself when it comes to branding. A quote we mention often at Agency Exposed “The cobblers kids have no shoes.” He asks CJ about the process of moving from clients to himself as the focus. [10:49] CJ: Says he will probably always be iterating what that looks like- but starts with knowing when to invite people in and what to invite them in on. Perspective can get narrow, so it’s important for him to know what ONLY he can do and maintaining that balance has been the struggle. [11:45] Brad asks about CJ’s theme of “weirdness” in his business and why he values the weird so much in a business sense. [12:15] CJ talks about the wakeup call of realizing that the need to fit in and measure up that we are taught as kids no longer applies- in reality, it’s what makes us stand apart from others that will bring real growth. This is truly the cornerstone for branding for any brand and business.
[13:55] CJ “The great danger is that we are educating our kids and conditioning kids to really neglect the thing that will help our society move forward and innovate and be the environment that we are all really long for and wish for.” [15:27] Bob asks “Would you say that you’re taking the word unique… and figuring out what’s your unique selling proposition? Are you saying that, are you taking the word unique and exchanging it for weird, or would you define them as different things?” [15:55] CJ responds that yes they are being used synonymously. “It drills down to how you position the business, how you create a team culture, etc.” [16:46] Bob says that being “unique” or “different” is one thing, having a different angle to approach a sale. But truly being “weird” is a bit more vulnerable, a bit more human. [17:31] CJ talks about another litmus test for weirdness versus your run of the mill unique selling proposition- it comes from your people, the humans and make up your organization- not just a product set apart from other products. [18:18] Ken asks CJ for more info on his current business model. “Do you have clients? Do you create products?” [18:31] CJ responds. V1 of an app for Ringbeller is in being built. They are building more interactivity and games for ways to turn kids into the media creators. This is being filtered through a school product but also a family product.
[20:46] Ken says that he feels this need, as a dad trying to help his kids through the delicate learning stages they’re at right now. [21:23] CJ says that Ringbeller is focused more on soft skills, on social and emotional learning. There is a lot of content out there that focuses on these things, that are very touchy feely, but Ringbeller has created an archetype of an 8th grade boy that may not have resources or support, that would find these videos attention-grabbing and laugh-inducing, to then teach him important life skills that he needs.
[24:11] Bob asks CJ what his ringbeller is, what his Why is behind the company. [24:32] CJ says “I don’t think Mr Rogers ever intended to have his successor… his entire career and purpose was about helping us be a little version of what he was teaching… I really do think it’s not going to take one sort of individual leader, it’s up to a lot of little micro decisions and choices from each of us to live out that message.” [26:35] Ken talks about how businesses should and could change lives, some are explicitly in that space. Some awesome realization that don’t think they have a deep reason for existence to realize they do, then use that influence to help the world is THE way to go. [28:15] Ken highlights the pain points of creating a brand for yourself after you’ve spent so much time creating brands for your clients. How do they start creating their own media that has a meaning and purpose? [30:26] Ken can sympathize with this shame and guilt, as Metacake has created YouTube videos and books.
[32:25] Brad asks CJ: “How do you communicate about your business to your employees so that they understand what the big picture is and what you’re really there to do- what’s the ethos of the company?”
[35:20] Brad asks CJ if a little bit of weirdness is necessary for the leaders to be able to get their employees to think outside of the box. [35:22] CJ: There is a difference between a company that defers to whatever the competition is doing versus a set of people who are free to create their own path to differentiate from the competition. He says there needs to be a little bit of that rebellious attitude in this regard- sort of like “We’ve gotta carve our own path, zig where everyone else is zagging.” [37:38] Brad: “Knowing what makes you weird is the best thing you can offer your art, your business, your friends, your family, and yourself. It’s the essence of creativity. It’s the stuff of movements and the hope of humanity.”- this is a quote from CJ’s book! [38:42] CJ plugs his book and platform! Getweirdbook.com and ringbeller.com [39:53] The Guys reflect on their talk with CJ. Bob says that the feeling of shame that we all struggle with when it comes to creativity and the fun that comes along with it is important to talk about. With so many voices speaking into the void about how to do YouTube the “right” way, how to motivate your clients to click, it’s easy to lose sight of everything that CJ is talking about. [40:28] Ken talks about how marketing is contributing to the lack of mental health in the population SO much. For example, going into Q4 as an ecommerce brand doesn't mean stress is innate in everything you do. Shame-based marketing, super urgent marketing, etc are contributing to the detriment of people’s mental health. “I think marketers should realize that weight.” [41:55] Ken: “In my opinion, I think finding purpose is the best business strategy. It’s the only one that people can’t rip off.”
[44:37] Brad talks about the commercials that he’s seen since Covid-19 took over the news and culture. Instead of ads for cars, the ads were about human triumphing, the human spirit, and more of an emotional connection. [46:41] Ken says that when you’re the leader of the company, when you’re developing the company ethos and pedigree that will be trained into your employees and passed on, at some point you have to come out about what your purpose is. If that doesn’t happen, it’s highly unlikely that your wins are going to have the impact that they could have otherwise. [48:06] Brad talks about how weirdness may not do favors on Wall Street, but it’s what keeps people’s eyes on you and what truly draws value to you in the end. [52:50] Bob says that speaking with Calvin Nowell of C’Mon Media is a great example of leaning into what makes you different and even weird, by some standards. It sets him apart and makes him memorable. [53:46] Brad quotes CJ once again “What if we lived as though we had something to give instead of living as though we have something to prove.” | |||
| 31 Mar 2023 | Ep 126: How to use AI in your agency to save you time | 00:42:27 | |
Subtitle: When most people think about AI, they think of the dangerous robots or technology from movies that destroy the human race. Though AI does have the potential to be dangerous, it also has a lot of potential to assist businesses by creating content, cleaning up writing, and helping with research. Today, the guys dive into the practical uses and dangers of Chat GPT and AI. They also talk about communication, misinformation, human nuance, Wall-E, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: In this week’s episode, Bob, Ken, and Brad engage in a discussion about Chat GPT and AI. Bob starts by asking how the guys use AI practically in their agency and business. Bob also explains that machine learning is the precursor to AI and has been around since the 1960s. He defines AI as generative, meaning it takes a prompt and tries to match and complete the thought as accurately as possible. The group then delves into the importance of words and communication in human relationships. They consider if it is the words alone, the context of the words, or the embodiment behind the words that matter most. Bob highlights the complexity of communication and how AI may struggle to understand the nuances of human language and relationships. Brad shares his experience exploring and using Chat GPT. He tests its capabilities and tries to find ways to use it to save time and create authentic content. He also discusses the amount of information that Chat GPT can retain as context, which affects its ability to generate accurate responses. Ken brings up the importance of using technology and AI wisely, leveraging time and avoiding the dangers of atrophy. He warns about relying too heavily on AI and losing valuable skills, such as writing. Brad agrees and highlights how Chat GPT has helped him save time and create content. Ken then asks Brad if he has used Chat GPT for research purposes. Brad discusses the extensive knowledge that Chat GPT has and also raises concerns about the dangers of AI creating and publishing false information. He emphasizes the importance of fact-checking and ensuring the accuracy of the information generated by AI. Brad highlights that the value of writing is not the writing itself, but the concepts behind it. Bob elaborates on the idea that AI does not have the same understanding of nuances as humans do, which could lead to misinformation. He explains that AI is only trying to give what it thinks the user wants, but has no incentive to provide what is true and accurate. Bob raises the concern about the potential for the best AI to become a tool solely for wealthy individuals and businesses. He warns about the unequal distribution of technology and the consequences of a small group having access to such powerful tools. Finally, Ken wraps up the discussion with a warning about the need for discipline in balancing technology and human skills. He emphasizes the importance of finding a balance between using technology and preserving valuable skills, such as critical thinking and writing. He stresses that there is no self-discipline in technology, and it is up to us to exercise discipline in its use.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:42] Bob begins a discussion about this episode’s topic, Chat GPT and AI. [1:35] Ken asks the guys how they use AI practically for agency and business. [3:14] Bob talks about how machine learning is the prequel to AI, and AI has been around since the 60s. He says that AI is, “what we call generative. It's taking a prompt and it's actually trying to match that prompt and finish that thought and make it as accurate as possible.” [5:45] Bob dives deep and asks, “what's the importance of words and communications in how we relate to other human beings? Is it the words alone? Is it the context of the words? Or is it the actual embodiment of someone behind those words?” [10:00] Brad talks about some of the practical ways he’s been exploring and using Chat GPT. “I'm just testing it out, I'm trying to figure out how this thing can help me. What type of processes can I throw at it that it would give me the results I'm looking for? how much information could it retain, that it can use as context?” [13:48] Ken talks about the importance of leveraging your time wisely and how to use technology and AI to either increase comfort or leverage; he also discusses the dangers of atrophy. “If you just asked it to write everything for you, eventually you'd lose the ability to write.” [15:39] Brad talks about other ways he’s been using Chat GPT and how it has helped him save time and create authentic content. [18:29] Ken asks, “Have you used it for anything on the research side of things?” [18:33] Brad discusses the extensive knowledge that Chat GPT has and also launches a discussion about the dangers of AI creating and publishing false information. [21:25] Brad says that, “The value of writing is not the writing. It's the concepts.” [23:57] Bob elaborates on the idea that AI doesn’t have the same understanding of nuances as humans do and how this could lead to misinformation and its various dangers. “It's just trying to give you what it thinks you want, but it has no incentive to give you what is true and what is accurate” [33:49] Bob talks about the potential for the best AI to become a tool solely for wealthy individuals and businesses. [36:18] Ken wraps up with a warning, “There's no self discipline to balance technology with not technology. We have to exercise a lot of human discipline with these things, because they're really powerful.”
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| 25 Nov 2020 | Ep 48: How do you sell creative services that are profitable? | 00:53:21 | |
Summary: In today’s episode we break down the process of selling creative services. How you not only make the initial sale, but sell the concepts as well. We share experiences with past clients, challenges we’ve met along the way, and strategies to overcome those challenges. Helping your client think practically and objectively about something that is potentially so tied to emotion is the key. And having a clear process on how you walk someone through this in a consistent way that is profitable is even more important!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:53] Brad introduces this week’s episode- we’re talking about selling creative to your clients. That’s creative services, not just sales. “I’m talking about selling the creative strategy to your clients- how do you get them to see the vision?”
[3:15] Bob asks Brad for his insight into this topic, he’s the Brand Guy. [3:54] Brad reflects on the fact that his parent’s generation don’t care as much about the brand, and it’s an interesting difference. “There’s people in that age and demographic who don’t seem to care as much about the brand… they don’t see it almost. They don’t see the packaging of the product. They don’t see the way it’s positioned very well.”
[5:00] Ken talks about how oftentimes, building your brand is the only competitive advantage you have. He asks Brad “How does the creative connect to brand, in your mind?” [5:27] Brad responds. It depends on your customer. When you’re working with a client who’s brand has been established for many years and they’re protective of it- that’s when you know the guardrails and how to sell to them. But if you’re working with a younger client who’s brand isn’t as solid, you know there’s going to be more of an uphill battle. [6:25] Bob says that you’ve got to be the one that brings clarity to your client- “The sales process is to convince them that you can take it to the next level that will result in higher market shares and higher conversions and sales.
[8:10] Brad: “Your brand isn’t your logo or your name, right? It’s the values you put into those, the name and the identity and how you communicate those values.”
[9:28] Ken calls out the aspiration factor, saying it’s encouraging to see things from Nike. “If you can help your customer see themselves where they want to be, then that’s powerful.” [10:00] Brad shares that sometimes startups have a great product but don’t think about who their customers are, which makes it difficult to position a brand to everyone. He talks about walking through that process with clients, saying they outline brand guardrails before even beginning the creative process. Including the client in that process and introducing them to the strategy is key to success in that process. [12:00] Ken reflects on this process, saying it’s a very analytical approach to selling creative. You’re not selling just one thing, but selling every step along the way. [12:50] Bob says that sharing data and research about your decisions with the clients along the way builds trust and buy-in from the clients.
[14:07] Brad “One of the more frustrating things about watching a creative pitch creative and there’s zero data and zero strategy in why they made the decisions they’ve made… They didn’t really understand the strategy going into it.” [17:31] Bob says that the more you can remove subjectivity, the more you can bring clarity. “I think our job as an agency is to continue to remove subjectivity. Not that you remove the best art and design, but you remove the subjectivity so that everyone at the table can say Why do I need to trust you.” [18:24] Ken reflects on sometimes being too connected with the creative you’re delivering. He talks about a recent experience with a client who moved a deadline forward a couple weeks and then weren’t appreciative when the team responded quickly and on time-
[20:42] Brad “I was taught early on that I had to provide a few different roads to the same destination. And so I never got too connected, I always could feel more objective.” [23:00] Brad says that he and his team work with mood boards to get as close to those creative guard rails as possible. [24:58] Bob shares that developing a good process can help your team get on board and not become too attached to the creative they’re producing. [27:00] Brad says that sometimes the client CEO will take a bit of creative to an outsider for an opinion, and that outsider doesn’t know the strategy behind any of the decisions that have been made. And so it then becomes your job to wrangle that client back on board without the influence of outsiders who don’t know the brand the way that you do. [32:30] Ken “Rarely should the person that created the thing be the one that’s pitching it or selling it to the client, because I think it’s most like a different skill set.” He stresses the importance of bringing clarity to the client when presenting creative, of having someone in that role who’s skill set matches that clarity. [34:21] Bob reiterates “Try to remove subjectivity, have a clear process, and bring clarity to the client. So that your value is not another voice that says this is a good idea… Your job is to bring clarity and purpose and see how it fits into the overall strategy.” [34:59] Brad talks about working with clients who have multiple stakeholders who don’t see eye to eye. You have multiple decision-makers with the clients and they all have pull, so pitching creative relies even more on clarity and vision. [36:19] Ken switches topics to strategy. “How do you guys define strategy and how do you make sure that what you’re talking about is actually what someone is thinking? What is the thing you’re trying to do?” [38:24] Brad says that really, strategy is the path to be able to market a product or service. It starts with a lot of understanding of what makes their product or services unique, a lot of research to define guardrails. [39:32] Bob says strategy for him is based on 3 things: What’s the plan? And how are you going to do it? How are you going to measure that success?
[41:54] Bob “If you’re going to sell strategy to a client and get them to give you money to execute on it, you have to provide very clear documentation of what’s the idea, what’s the end result, what are the steps you’re going to do? And what are the expected results? If you don’t do all those things, it’s not a strategy, it’s just an idea.”
[45:00] Ken says that often in ecommerce, he sees companies that are having massive success but aren’t really sure why. They’re doing things that seem to be working, but there’s no real strategy around it. “More often than not we’re reverse engineering a strategy so that this success that someone found isn’t by accident in the future.”
[51:13] Bob talks about how nebulous words like “strategy” and “brand” can come to mean nothing over time. “It just gets back to bringing clarity, and removing subjectivity.” | |||
| 23 Sep 2020 | Ep 39: Balancing Work and Life for a More Effective Existence | 00:51:26 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we talk about how our home lives have shifted since Covid hit, highlighting the many positives and few negatives of working more from home with families right in the mix. We share our feelings of guilt when time is not spent wisely with family and business. We also discuss actionable ways that YOU can create a more balanced life, taking into account differences in personality and company culture. At a time when creating work/life boundaries is more important than ever, we explore that “perfect” balance for a more effective existence.
Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob welcomes everyone to the show, and tells us about Brad’s cool ride for the day. [3:00] Brad shares about his BMW motorcycle hobby, with a peek into his early first career as a BMX racer (just kidding! Kind of) [3:50] Bob introduces this week’s episode, lamenting the joys and pains of parenthood. Finding balance between work and life is difficult always, but now more than ever there are challenges. [4:50] Ken shares that he had a business before he had kids, and now there are still both going on. The stakes have gotten higher, being able to provide and participate in parenting while working from home during Corona. [6:34] Brad asks “Do you ever feel guilt? That your kids are in the same house and that you’re ignoring them?” [6:37] Ken: “It comes up for sure.” [6:39] Brad shares the internal battle for himself, and expresses that with older children that are high-school aged, it’s tempting to hang out with them and spend time, because it’s different from when they were younger. Time together sounds fun and it can be hard to draw those boundaries while working from home. [7:55] Ken shares that this experience is had by everybody with a family, but is exaggerated when you own a business. Work isn’t an inherently bad thing, and it’s important to demonstrate that for your kids. [9:00] Bob says that it’s a great thing for kids to see their parent devoted to work for a set time during the day, there is a noble quality to demonstrating to children what that healthy balance looks like.
[11:30] Bob says that as a business owner, it can be tempting to hop back online after dinner and work until midnight. But you have to resist that, and know that it’s not what’s best for you or your work at that moment. [12:00] Brad shares that in the early days, he was so passionate about his business that it became his hobby as well. But that has changed, as he has found other hobbies that he likes even more!
[13:15] Ken says that one rule he uses is not looking at his phone when he wakes up.
[15:28] Brad shares that when the Industrial revolution happened, overnight shifts and continuous work was suddenly an option, and it ruined our sleep patterns and circadian rhythms. Bright lights on 24/7 means no real natural markers for rest. [17:25] Bob talks about creating intentional windows of memorable moments for your children, and the importance of that for your mental health as well as their development. [19:02] Brad reflects on how sometimes as the “hard worker” mentality of working to support your family can create a martyr mindset, where the burnout you experience becomes a direct correlation with how much you’re sacrificing yourself for them.
[21:00] Ken reflects on the mental strength of mental muscle building of shutting off the worry that comes with agency ownership. Your mental energy is worth the exercise in self-control, and is something that gradually changes and increases over time. [22:00] Brad shares that he schedules that down time and recharge time on a micro-scale as well. His most productive time of day is morning before noon, so the more difficult tasks that might require more brain power and/or mental energy aren’t best done in the afternoon. [24:00] Ken shares that he uses a 5-minute Journal each day, morning and night, to reset his focus on reflect on the day from a perspective of gratitude instead of everything that went wrong. Incorporating this into your morning and nightime routine is a game-changer.
[26:00] Bob adds that delegating that time appropriately between family and work is important for everyone, but especially if you're trying to grow a business. Because as that business grows you’ll just have more and more content to suck up your energy. If you don’t know how to delegate early on, it WILL catch up with you! [26:56] Ken: “How I use my time is hundreds of times more important than how I spend my money or how I use something else.” Learning to say no to things, to put your time into things that you only get one shot at when it’s important (like your family), and delegate energy for the work that you need to do- that is the true test of finding balance. [30:00] Bob stresses the importance of engaging in your kids lives in ways that they will appreciate. Find their passions and engage in those with them, create those lasting memories with them and be intentional about it. [32:35] Bob shares that different personality types mean that recharging and establishing new habits and routines will look different. For him, making time for himself and setting himself up for success means everything else around him sort of falls into place. [37:06] Brad: “One of the things that I’ve learned is that I cannot live my life being reactive. I have to be proactive.” Timelines and pressures of agency life can make you feel like you’re just reactive all the time. Which leads to feeling out of control, or you feel the adrenaline rush and get hooked on it.
[38:51] Bob asks what some daily rituals are that Ken and Brad have that make a difference for them. [42:26] Ken says that daily exercise is the most life changing thing for him. He’s also struggled to find a hobby that isn’t related to work in some way- that new hobby is road biking. It’s been a journey to learn more about it and pick it up, but the process of finding a new passion has been awesome.
[46:00] Bob speaks to the importance of time and making sure you’re living in the present. In reality, there is no such thing as “tomorrow”, but only this moment. By comparing yourself to past actions, future promises, outside pressures- you’re immediately walking away from the present moment. [47:38] Ken: “The more you understand about your mind, the more that you can understand how to make it do what you want ti to do, and also create disciplines around yourself so that you don't have to worry about missing something or what might mess up in the future.” [48:26] Brad reflects on his own anxieties and says that although his business is incredibly stable, he feels an overwhelming sense of things being on the verge of collapse at any moment. “Some of the things that helped me, what you mentioned is this idea of gratefulness and writing things down.. Being grateful helps you to relieve the anxiety of the things you can’t control.” | |||
| 29 Apr 2020 | Ep 18: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 6): What are the Fundamental Rules that will get your Agency through Any Crisis? With guest Daniel Cobb, founder of The Daniel Brian Agency. | 00:53:46 | |
Summary: Ever wish you could pick the brain of an industry leader who has been around a lot longer than you, has had a lot more success than you, has been down your road before, and is willing to share it all with you? Yeah, we did too. So we reached out to Daniel Brian Cobb, the founder of The Daniel Brian Agency. Dan’s agency has won more than 21 Emmy’s, advises clients like Papa John’s and Disney, is a respected author, and has been leading and growing his business and clients for over 30 years.
Daniel has seen it all from the 2008 financial crisis to the current 2020 COVID-19 recession. Daniel is one of the voices that large brands go to for advice in times of crisis. He’s an amazing agency leader and God-given innovator.
Daniel shares it all today. We discuss how he’s leading his clients and agency through this crisis, and the next wave of change that is coming.
And just like the rest of us, Daniel’s business isn’t immune to the current crisis. In the first 24hrs of the Coronavirus shut down his agency lost $1M in business. We talk about how he dealt with disappointments like this and how he’s actually gained more business through this time. There is always HOPE and Dan walks us through finding it.
This is an episode you want to listen to with your notepad ready (or just use our notes below:).
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Dan Cobb: Founder of the Daniel Brian Agency (DBA), author of Surfing the Black Wave and 30+ year industry veteran. DBA specializes in innovative and measurable advertising campaigns to engage families via retail, healthcare, digital TV, family entertainment, and sporting goods. Dan has worked with brands like Papa Johns, Henry Ford Health Systems, and Chick-fil-A to provide creative connections with local communities. Connect with Dan:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:24] Brad introduces our guest Dan Cobb.
[3:44] Dan tells us about his clients and the type of work he does. “We started with two types of clients. We started in healthcare and pizza. First two clients, Henry Ford health system, and Domino’s pizza.”
[4:56] Dan continues: “In doing that over the years, what we’ve learned is that connection happens in the community, connections happens through values… That’s great to have a pizza on sale, a $5 hot and ready, but you can beat that with a $7 pizza that cares.”
[5:53] Brad reflects on first meeting Dan years ago. He recalls that Dan had a very clear vision that had nothing to do with advertising. Brad asks Dan what that “Why” core value system looks like these days. [7:22] Dan responds: “Many of us started with writing or artistic or musical skills, and it kind of drove us into this industry, which gave us a way to compensate those skills… for me it went back to when I was a kid. I was sitting on the couch watching tv… mom walks into the room and says turn that off, that’s bad for you. Go out and do something good for you. And it was that moment… it was this though, Why does it have to be bad for me? Why does this content, this entertainment, this advertising have to be bad for me? Maybe I can make that change.” [8:10] He recalls Nike’s “Just Do It” campaign impacting him strongly. As a runner, he found himself truly inspired by the commercials that he’d seen. “It inspired me to be a better runner, to be a better person, overcome the pain in my life, and just take on the challenges… why can’t advertising always do that type of thing?” [8:35] Dan: “So we started building a model around that… we call it Better Brands for a Better Human Condition. So we put everything we do through that filter: Is what we’re doing building a better brand for a better human condition?”
[10:01] Ken speaks about how advertising has had a “churn and burn” kind of experience in the past. Not having come from advertising, he’s had a different experience of the work. [11:37] Ken continues: “We focused on how do we create a business that is different and the purpose is really not the product we put out. It’s the message that we stand for… How do we do things like create a staff environment that’s not continually expanding and contracting- literal financial stability that is not necessarily dependent on any one particular client..” [12:37] Dan interjects- “We hear about flattening the curve right now- we’ve been flattening the curve our entire careers!”
[12:56] Dan: “So we now have been thinking through how do we flatten that curve so that through the course of the year, it’s fairly level… you have a few peaks, but it’s not all spikes and then drop offs. Managing that is really about managing a client… getting them on course and managing their calendar, building out longterm plans… looking for the kinds of clients who marry, who don’t date around.”
[13:46] Brad speaks about a common theme here on Agency Exposed: “Are our businesses just a commodity or do we have a value that is unique enough that we’re not on that list of customers that are going to go and burn out agencies… our business has struggled because some of our offerings are commodities and others are not.”
[15:04] Bob segues into Dan’s book and the principles that he talks about. “Can you talk a little bit about that and maybe contextualize it for what’s going on right now. This whole idea that everything becomes commoditized… if it’s a new technology, new knowledge base, people start to learn it, more people start to learn it and it becomes a commodity… so what digital marketing was 15 years ago you can now pay $5 for someone to do it.”
[16:33] Bob: “It almost feels like the tide is going back out again… what are you seeing in the context of what you write about in that kind of tsunami, black wave metaphor.” [16:47] Dan reflects on his childhood proclivity for invention. “My grandfather was an inventor and he taught me a lot about how inventors think.”
[17:54] Dan speaks about the Third Wave Model based on a tsunami metaphor.
[18:31] Dan says “I believe we’re in the same place. We’re all spectators watching social media saying ‘Well, that’s over, Facebook won, Zuckerberg had the final say’ but there is another shift coming because there’s a mindset shift that took place over the first two waves. The mindset shift came in and said ‘It’s no longer the big three, the big five, whatever the number is in any particular industry to control everything.’”
[20:00] Dan talks about how it is no longer the focus to make one company the BIGGEST around, that model is outdated and useless in this day and age. [20:36] “Eventually that model is going to break, well all of them are breaking… It’s better when Daniel Brian meets three other guys who have specific skills that I don’t have, and we intertwine our relationships and build out towards something bigger to serve a bigger population. The participation age is about collaboration and smaller units of power. Getting more access and creating a greater weight than any one big organization could ever create.” [21:04] Brad asks what Dan’s suggestions would be for business owners to position themselves for this next wave. [21:18] Dan responds:
[22:45] Ken agrees with Dan and recalls that that is the reason that Agency Exposed exists. In advertising things tend to be secretive and closed-off from collaboration, everything is a competition and so we tend to be closed off in disclosing what we’re ACTUALLY really good at versus what we say we are really good at. [24:15] Ken adds: “we often say collaboration over isolation… there’s a balance between saying you can do everything and being specialized.” [24:47] Dan: “It’s about vertical integration… your best new business is your current business.” When a client talks about how they want to explore a new solution, tell them you can figure it out for them.
[28:04] Bob asks: “What are some lessons you’ve used over 30 years that you could offer to some agency owners right now?” [29:07] Dan responds: “Own the media, it is our future, it is the Black Wave.”
[32:24] Bob asks for practical advice for agency owners. [32:37] Dan: “Marketing automation… building around your CRM platform.” [33:39] Brad asks: “What are some ways during Covid-19 that you’ve had to help your customers pivot?” [34:06] Dan says “Don’t look at it as a negative.” He gives the example of Papa John’s sales being up to Superbowl numbers. “And so rather than just start to gouge the customer we tried to say how do we endear our customer and connect to them during this time.”
[36:14] Dan continues: “So now’s the time for us to engage our communities with messages of hope. The future. Finding ways for our health systems to engage people and say, we have a model for getting virtual care because people are afraid to go to the hospital so they’re not getting their care.”
[37:05] Brad asks how he is personally staying “up” in all the chaos and working from home. [37:25] Dan: “I’ve been following the stats and trying to be very very informative with them of where I think things are at, telling them about their future. A lot about where we’re going to be… how we’re using this to leverage on Covid marketing. We’re doing a lot of Covid campaigns so we’ve actually seen an increase in our business during this.”
[38:35] Ken asks for elaboration on 2 points. Do you see this changing the way you guys do business? How so? You mentioned that some business has increased- how has that happened and how have you positioned yourself to not be an opportunist in that place, but actually increase your ability to sell well? [39:08] Dan: “I’d be cautious to say that my business has increased… The first moment of the crisis… it took us less than 24 hours to lose a million dollars in contracts.”
[41:15] Ken speaks on the shock of losing that much money in 24 hours. “How’d you lead your company through that? How did you take action without freaking out inside?” [41:30] Dan: “Well first I didn’t take action without freaking. I freaked out… for me it’s a faith thing… once I got past that point, I got to my center.”
[43:08] Ken: “As far as opportunities now, as our entire population shifts, how does this shift your business? You talked about the next wave being owned channels… how are you adjusting?” [43:15] Dan: Hospitals without an address are what will win. Telehealth solutions are the next frontier. “Whoever owns that particular market will dominate the market because it’ll be your first call…” [44:38] Ken asks about the same but for Dan’s agency specifically. [44:41] Dan: “Our own media platform is… we’re starting to do a lot more of things like this, content that’s going out to our clients.”
[45:44] Bob asks for advice for young solo-preneurs. As the trend of a solo model is becoming more and more popular and talent and resources are being outsourced more and more, what kind of advice can he give to people in the early stages of business? [46:17] Dan: “A lot of the things that I accidentally did when I started DBA.”
[47:20] Bob asks how to scale this. [47:22] Dan: “I’ll tell you when I get there!” Working in this way has allowed him between 5 and 10M in revenue regularly, but getting beyond that is the challenge. [48:45] Brad asks: “How much approximately of your revenue do you spend on specifically reinventing your company, to move your company to the next wave?” [49:00] Dan: “Great question. Critical question. I nearly killed my company three times by missing the point of this question.”
[51:20] Bob asks Dan for info on his book and website. | |||
| 05 Feb 2020 | Ep 6: How do you innovate, grow, and serve fast moving clients? | 00:59:12 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott are talking about how to innovate, grow and serve fast-growing clients in an agency world that is both ever-changing and also static. Hyper-growth is idealized, but the truth is scale isn’t always good. You need healthy scale. How do you help businesses see the forest through the trees? How do you inspire some to think bigger? How do you get clients who are moving too fast to slow down and pay attention to what will create healthy growth? There is a delicate balance to establishing a strong, influential role with a client, regardless of the type of business they are in.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:26] Bob asks: "There's this new business model of failing fast and scaling quick and getting stuff out. It seems like the fastest wins. What does that mean for agencies who try to lead that charge?" [1:56] Brad: “we do have clients that are over a hundred years old… they built such a strong legacy, but they can’t move as fast as they need to.”
[2:49] “So they’re looking at acquiring companies who could scale faster.” [3:17] “We can talk more about how, as an agency, how you can prepare your infrastructure, and your processes to move that quickly and to understand that things pivot. And sometimes that’s really hard.” [3:39] Bob asks Ken: How have quick pivots and “failing fast” impacted Metacake and their clients? [4:05] Ken: “We preach innovation to our clients because ultimately, that is something that is never urgent and always important.... Innovation needs to happen whether you’re a big company or a small company.”
[5:34] Ken: “Just because other people are doing it [innovating] doesn’t mean you should be doing it NOW, but you should be doing it, you just have to figure out when.” [6:46] “Just like people have personalities, agencies and businesses have personalities. Knowing what your strength is is important.”
[7:30] Brad: “We have companies that we lead, and companies that we serve. The fear with companies that we serve is that we become a commodity… if we’re not leading and innovating they won’t work with us… and sometimes they’re just not a good fit. [8:45] “Even those companies that don’t give you a seat at the table… maybe you can still add table value by indirectly giving them suggestions and helping them to ‘see the beach’.” [9:05] Ken: “Even in a role of service… the way you avoid becoming a commodity is by being a really great advisor to them… We work with viral entrepreneurs as well as global brands. With those global brands they need to be led with innovation, with those viral entrepreneurs we want to advise wisely.” [10:13] Brad speaks on having a strong understanding of your client and being aligned with them and an extension of their leadership. [12:10] “How as an agency do you follow the culture of a client when they are averse to pivoting, change?” [12:45] Ken “Even an industry that your agency doesn't have experience in, the reason that you’re brought on it because you do have a speciality in some other area… if you don’t have that, maybe you shouldn’t be there… but you should be able to use your specialty to push that innovation.” [13:27] Bob: “I think a good agency… gets over those humps is with data.”
[14:30] Ken: “that implies that you’re investing in acquiring data… could mean getting experience outside of client work. Being in eCommerce, we have several product companies that we run the stores of and so we can learn from them.”
[15:56] Brad: “You’ve got to be open to agile testing…. You've got to be able to think outside of the box and [28:00] Brad: “... one of our clients… only works his business plan 3 months out. That’s it. And what he told me is that he’s going to pivot if he has to… either you’re with him and you are running right beside that pivot, or you’re going to get left behind.” [29:05] “In this case, this individual knows exactly where his business is going… and how does an agency support somebody like him that is running that fast?” [30:15] Brad: “Some clients want to make money TODAY, and some… care about their market share and they want to be leaders in their market… they’ll have a technology that noone else has.” [30:40] Bob: “How do you get your staff to see and to develop that mindset [of quick pivots and change] when they might be people who are creatives or they’re perfectionsists… that you need to function well.” [31:45] Ken: “In this type of example where companies are moving fast and you as a founder may not even realize what their full vision is.”
[34:50] Brad: “For us, #1, I think constantly talking about business practices with your team...allows them to go Okay there’s multiple ways to get a business off the ground.”
[36:00] So even if we do pivot, it’s all about communicating… that our goal is not just to serve a customer, it’s to see that customer’s objective met and their business objective met… trying to bring value to that leadership and have a seat at that table.” [37:00] Bob asks: What do you guys feel like the value is for Agencies moving forward in the near future, in the next five years, 10 years? Because I think what we’re talking about is everybody's moving at the speed of light. [37:43] Ken: “I think it’s experience and driving results… if you look at the trajectory, you’ve got agencies that were hired in to do everything and they were responsible for figuring out how to do this thing. Everything from strategy to implementation.”
[41:00] Brad: “For us, learning to balance the bent towards perfectionism is a challenge… we want really high-end success and I think that’s why we’ve kept a lot of clients.”
[42:50] Bob reflects: “In the past, it was a liability (putting out a less-than-perfect product)... so now if you release something that is a little bit imperfect just to get it out there, you have more room to improve and shift the focus later on.”
[45:37] Brad: “What Elon Musk has done is he’s created a culture, not only with his company, but the brand and his loyalists that say ‘I’m going to be first, but you’re going to have to give a little time. Forgive me, cause we’re not going to hit it. You’re not going to hit a home run every time, but I’m going to get you on third base and then we’ll sneak in into homebase and we’ll get it fixed.” [54:03] Ken: “Don’t blitz scale or innovate or feel like you have to be a high risk taker just for the sake of doing it because these other companies do it. What you really need to figure out is what is the why behind where they need to go and where you need to go.” [55:50] Brad “Sometimes educating your client on the lifetimes values of your customers so that we’re no here just to make a dollar today, but we’re actually looking at the future of your lifetime value and going okay we’ll spend money right now to acquire a customer because we know that the lifetime value is X, and you’re going to make that up in a year from now.” [57:40] Brad: “The customer needs to know that you’re running with them and you’re right next to or right beside them. Otherwise you don't’ have a seat at their table. And if you can’t get a seat at their table, it’s really hard to convince your clients to do anything.” | |||
| 24 Jun 2020 | Ep 26: Let’s Expose Pricing | 01:08:31 | |
Summary: When we began this podcast, our goal was to share and learn about the questions that many have but few talk about. There may be no more secretive or uncomfortable area among agencies than the topic of pricing. The result of this is many different pricing models, and clients that are comparing apples to oranges. This lack of conversation hurts the entire community. Today we’re breaking down some of those barriers. We are discussing pricing strategies, payment systems, the importance of educating your clients, true hourly cost, and more.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:05] Bob asks Brad and Ken about their pricing models. [4:15] Ken: Metacake has 3 basic types of pricing models: Projects, Retainers, BAI (Bill and Incurred)
[6:48] Bob: “Do you try tailor the plan to the client’s needs? Do some clients prefer a fixed rate and do some prefer an hourly rate?” [6:58] Ken: “We try not to because consistency is how we are able to deliver results… many would prefer a fixed rate as much as possible, but the nature is that many things are unknown and it’s important to acknowledge that.” [7:22] Brad reflects on Ken’s philosophy of what matters to have a healthy business. Ken is more apt to try and get the client to work within Metacake’s processes, versus Metacake working within the client’s processes. [8:09] Ken: “Unless you’re healthy as a business, you can’t provide really good services to your clients.”
[10:18] Brad talks about his company spending a lot of time trying to collect money from clients.
[12:00] Ken: “As an agency, you should think about ‘What is the formula that makes us able to deliver this product for the value and the price, efficiently, scalably, in a healthy manner for your business so that you can stay in business.” [12:51] Brad asks if there are situations where maybe a client is willing to commit for a year but only for a reduced rate. [13:25] Ken: For Metacake, they do give a discount on a rate for a longer-term commitment. “If you’re going to really serve somebody, you need the ability to know that you can invest into making sure you get those services.” If you can’t really invest because you don’t have a commitment, how can you do really great work?
[14:50] Bob asks: “What do you feel are some best practices and philosophies that bring you to the table based on your experience on how to price a client and a project?” [15:45] Brad speaks about working in the advertising world back in the day, and remembers how there were built-in measures for overages that clients didn't understand.
[17:43] Ken speaks on deep discovery documents - Metacake tries to avoid them unless they are paid. If they are necessary, they are fit into the first part of the project. [19:01] Brad speaks on Anthem including that brand discovery into the first part of the project, and ensuring that there is deep value in what the client receives. [19:40] Brad mentions how difficult it is to provide an estimate for people on the fly. “Can you give me an estimate for that… we need a website developed, can you give me an estimate for that?” These are difficult questions to answer, but only because there is a distinct lack of information and conversation around budget. [20:15] Bob talks about uncomfortable conversations about pricing with potential clients. Many clients want an “estimate” for work but don’t want to share a budget or much about their needs. There is a “game” mentality for many people, but the reality is that budget will have a deep impact on the offerings from any agency you work with. [21:41] Ken stresses the importance of tracking time spent talking with potential clients and setting up for discovery. [22:37] Bob adds that when he owned an agency, they charged per proposal. “It helped in the sales process… you can pay me and execute this with whoever you want… or you can and continue to work with us.” [24:32] Ken talks about the importance of trust. Building trust allows clients to work with you and open up about honest budgets, and the earlier on you can get to that level of transparency, the more smoothly and efficiently the sales process will go. [26:15] Bob asks for rates! [26:25] Ken: $195 to start, reduced to $175 for longer or larger projects.
[28:30] Brad speaks about how some clients may look at what you charge and attempt to match hiring a freelancer or an in-house person with hiring an agency… “But sometimes they don’t actually do the math of even their own employees of how much it’s actually going to cost them to have that person sit there at their office.” [29:15] Brad: “We charge between $165 and $220 an hour, depending on what we’re doing. We like to get to the point where with all our projects in the end, we’re at around $150 an hour range.”
[30:53] Ken talks about how to combat that. Metacake doesn’t build in a buffer to negotiate on, and that sort of transparency has had good results. [31:45] Ken asks about the guy’s average project price. Metacake‘s is between $30K and $150K. [32:50] Brad says that for Anthem, a short term 3-4 month project needs to be around $50K to make it worth their time. [33:05] Ken speaks about the beauty of having those difficult conversations. In having this specific convo, he is learning more about how Metacake can help potential clients that may not be the best fit- other agencies could be a better fit.
[35:30] Ken and Brad discuss the idea of posting limited pricing information on their websites, just for transparency's sake. Will it actually be enough to entice some? Will it turn others off? [37:15] Ken: “Be aware that if you reduce something to fit into someone’s budget, it has to be successful.”
[39:15] Bob: “The lower you come down on your prices, you are communicating with your prospect what your value is.” [40:40] Brad speaks on building brand equity. “It takes a lot of time and commitment, investment with no real immediate return.”
[44:50] Ken talks about a prevalent misconception of “growth hackers” and marketing shortcuts in the digital space. “You can get the idea that it’s easy, it’s low cost, and I don't’ have to invest anything into it,” but that’s simply not possible.
[45:51] Bob: “There’s just an ignorance… not to be derogatory… they [prospects] don’t know what they don’t know.” [46:45] Brad asks to speak about invoicing and software they use. Anthem typically has net 30 payment terms, or requires that the invoice is paid within 30 days of receiving it.
[50:45] Ken mentions that Metacake doesn’t send invoices, but rather receipts
[53:09] Ken continues: “We try and operate very transparently upfront, we have disciplines that are important to creating success and also to keeping our sanity and we stand by those because that’s very important… we try not to let anyone abuse those… it’s important that clients have those similar values.” [54:00] Ken: MC’s goal is to be an efficient, smart business so that we can be really great partners for our clients.
[56:35] Ken: “The expectation is that what goes on this agreement is not based on deliverables but rather effort because let’s be honest, very rarely have I seen projects where agencies have 100% control of the output deliverables… I think it’s unwise to even suggest that you, as an agency can control that deliverable 100% or that your payment is dependent on it.” [57:33] Brad: Speaks on clients who are not prepared to participate. There is a clause in their agreement that points out charges that a client may get if they are stalling and keeping the process from moving forward.
| |||
| 21 Jan 2021 | Ep 56: The Marketplace Revolution | 00:56:25 | |
Summary: Michael Begg is the co-founder of AMZ Advisers, a Guadalajara, Mexico based agency that specializes in Amazon Marketing, Management, and Strategy. We pick Mike’s brain on how he wound up being an Amazon marketing agency, the biggest lessons he’s learned from his experience, his services structure, and even get into tips for effectively marketing products on Amazon.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About our Guest:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:33] The Guys introduce today’s episode topic: Amazon. Many agencies have turned Amazon into a one-channel specialty- is that a good thing? [3:56] Bob introduces today’s guest Mike Begg of AMZ Advisers. With his extensive experience in Amazon marketing, he knows the ins and outs of Amazon well. [4:30] Mike is calling us from his office in Guadalajara, Mexico. His team and offices are located there but he is originally from Connecticut. [5:45] Mike tells us about his history. He started out working for Deloitte in consultation, but wasn’t a fan. After trying out real estate and watching retail spaces shift and change so quickly, he saw that ecommerce was the future. He and his team began importing products and selling them on Amazon, seeing the opportunity before many others did. [7:05] Mike talks about the instability of his business experiences, saying that he wanted to try something new. They started AMZ in 2015 after experiencing success on Amazon. [11:37] Ken asks Mike about how they get clients- tips, techniques, and things that work well. What are roadblocks and challenges that didn’t work? [11:55] Mike speaks on the importance of partnership- he had a partner that was great with sales that he could rely on. Although his background wasn’t in marketing, he was passionate about it and pushed for putting a lot of focus on great SEO blog content to build authority. This helped generate unique users that they wouldn’t have had otherwise. [13:17] Brad asks about the location of their clients. [13:40] Mike says most of their clients are US and Canada, but they also have an Asia team. Their niches are varied; apparel, health supplements, pet supplies, beauty products, etc. [14:39] Mike shares the evolution of his business, and how they wound up in Mexico. Initially they had stopped working and moved to the beach- the dream! But then their income that was still coming in from Amazon began to show more promise.
[16:27] Brad asks about other work outside of Amazon that still promotes that work inside of the platform. How do they choose sales, etc that are outside of Amazon? [16:50] Mike says that traditional link building is one place to start. 70% of online searches start on Amazon, so being there is an easy way to catch that influx. Also, depending on your audience and products, you can use sites like Pinterest to direct people to Amazon.
[18:43] Ken asks about how they choose the clients they work with, or the products they choose. [19:00] Mike says it varies pretty dramatically, PPE supplies an example from early in the Covid Pandemic. Finding and acting on niche needs. They also have contacts in manufacturing that can get products made for clients if they don’t exist already. [20:50] Bob asks about the upfront cost. [21:24] Mike says that it depends on the level of launch. The cost of acquiring traffic is already low on Amazon, because that’s where people are already! $10,000 to order inventory with a couple thousand to play with advertising is a great place to start and get sales going. [23:19] Bob asks about the types of services they offer their clients. [23:25] Mike says they primarily focus on the platform space- Amazon is the largest and their specialty. Also using Amazon to generate brand awareness and bring people over to your brand website is an incredible source of opportunity. [25:54] Ken asks about the strategy behind building trust enough to bring customers from Amazon to another platform, then talks about Amazon’s volatility, asking how Mike and his team mitigate that. [26:30] Mike says that Amazon does make it challenging to bring people over to your platform. Including product info cards inside of the box or QR codes that send people to their website.
[30:30] Brad asks how they put together teams for clients who may have a one-off product that they want to sell. [30:46] Mike says there are levels. Typically they help manage entire life cycles on the platform, starting with creating SEO content, visual content, building reviews, and attaining social proof. Then they focus on scaling sales, with hundreds of different strategies available depending on the product and attract customers. [31:45] Brad asks about indicators of traction that a product is doing well in teh first couple months of sales. [32:07] Mike describes the typical path, saying that the results are varied. He’s had clients who went from zero to $90,000 a month in a few months while others go from 30 to 300 over two years. If you have the resources and the team members to help you scale quickly, you can make SIGNIFICANT sales in a very short period of time. [34:30] Ken talks about setting yourself up for failure or disappointment- it can be easy to get your hopes up with quick sales on a platform like Amazon. [34:56] Brad says that focusing on having an ROI that you can SCALE is where the balance is- he asks Mike if you need to be prepared to ride the roller coaster if you’re working with Amazon. [35:36] Mike talks about competition on Amazon, saying that can increase the pressure. He shares an experience with a brand who was undercut on a supplier who they attempted to work with that immediately launched the product themselves. [37:30] Bob asks about guard against people knocking off Amazon products. [38:13] Mike says that this is exactly why building a brand outside of the platform is so valuable, as well as valuing your intellectual property and having it protected. If you’re selling products that are made in China, make sure you have a patent or some sort of protection in that country as well as the country that you’re selling from. [39:50] Ken asks about engagements and different levels of engagement and pricing. [40:34] Mike says they offer a la carte services, but for full service agreemeents the base tier will start anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 a month on retainer with a dedicated account manager. This incudes managing advertising and strategy assistance.
[42:34] Ken asks about their portfolio, what sort of products do they own and sell versus products in their whole agency that they’re selling. [43:26] Mike says that now it’s definitely more work for clients than selling products themselves, at least 85% of what they do. [44:27] Brad says that as an Amazon stock holder, he wants to know what Mike thinks is the next big Amazon killer, like Walmart and challenged Amazon’s supremacy. [44:58] Mike says that right now, Walmart is the closest to disrupting Amazon, but their platform is still years behind what Amazon is doing. [45:58] Ken says that maybe Shopify could one day step up and compete. He talks about the healthy aspects of competition and how it winds up being good for everyone in the end, and he says that Amazon could be providing a bit of a disservice in that way. [47:36] Brad wonders if the government would ever get involved in breaking up the monopoly that Amazon seems to have. [47:50] Mike talks about how more and more governments are paying attention to Amazon as a platform because of the user data. In some European countries, platforms are required to disclose how their algorithms work, so that could be a possibility for us as well. [50:01] Bob asks Mike for two or three tips that he wishes he knew three to five years ago when he was starting his agency. Business advice, things he struggled to learn the hard way, etc. [50:29] Mike talks #1- Commission Caps. #2 Control Your product. At the end of the day in the digital agency space, the product is the people you have on your team. [52:12] Ken asks for a primary takeaway from 2020 that he is carrying into his future business endeavors. [53:00] Mike says that he and his clients realized before last year even that ecommerce and digital marketing is evolving rapidly and changing quickly within the Amazon platform- and so being nimble, agile, and ready to adapt to changes has been extremely important. [54:34] Mike shares how you can contact him- through AMZ’s website at www.amzadvertisers.com or directly by email- Mike@amzadvisors.com. They also have a Youtube Channel and offer courses at amzcourses.com. Their courses are Amazon accelerated teaching about the fundamentals of the platform and how to build your own brands with Amazon.
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| 02 Mar 2022 | Ep 100: Russia and Ukraine: What can we learn, and what can we do? | 00:33:31 | |
Subtitle: February 25th, 2022 is the day when Russia launched their initial attack on Ukraine. There are many fears, opinions, and politics circulating, creating a thick cloud that hides the reality of what’s happening in Ukraine; innocent people are dying. In this week’s episode, we stand with Ukraine, we acknowledge that what is happening right now is unacceptable, answer discuss how businesses can help. We share how we believe this tragic war will affect not only the countries directly involved, but also Europe, the United States, and agencies and technology. We also discuss some practical ways, as agency owners and citizens of the United States to help those that are hurting.
Summary: In today's episode, we strive to understand the effects that this war will have on economies, financial systems, the technological community, as well as the role of the government in the affairs of international companies, and what we can do to help. The first step is in order to help those that are hurting, we must first fix the division in our own country. And it turns out marketing agencies have real power there. How are we to help others if we can’t even help and agree with each other? We must also be wise and mature in the way we speak about our current leader or leaders past. We are only hurting ourselves and our country by damaging their reputation on a worldwide scale. We must learn from the mistakes made, apply what we learn to our own agencies, and grow. The primary takeaway from this episode is that what is happening in Ukraine is wrong, but in order to help fix it, we must first fix ourselves by being wise, mature, forgiving, and most importantly, kind humans.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:43] Bob opens this week’s episode by informing the listeners that this episode is a special, current event episode, prompted by the invasion of Ukraine, where the guys will break down how war, cyberattacks, and sanctions impact agencies. “We could talk a little bit about war or sanctions or cyber attacks, and how they might come into play and affect what we do as agency owners and people working in agencies.” [1:41] Brad contemplates the government’s role in deciding to shut down international companies’ access to and business with Russia, as well as how it will affect other US businesses. “I'm not not saying we shouldn't do sanctions. I just don't know what the effect will be.” [4:55] Ken discusses an interview he found with Putin and how after listening to the interview, he’s begun to realize that cyberspace is the new battlefield. “A lot of people view cyberspace as the new, like, Battlefront. It's like a profound shift when, you know, when we view that as an actual battlefield.” [6:57] Ken continues his discussion about cyberspace being the new battleground and relates it to the tech community. “What we don't realize is that as the tech community, being on the forefront is very important. It is like having a strong military.” [9:25] Bob talks about a conversation he had with a retired veteran recently about how there is a very possible threat, “if Russia and China were to get together and say, we're going to have a plan cyber attack on, you know, countries that oppose us, (the US and other NATO backed countries) it's something to be concerned about and something that we should really prepare for, and it's yes, as agency owners, but also as citizens.” [12:31] Ken discusses how the idea of casting blame is very detrimental. “It happens a lot inside of our country. It is a cliche that, you know, we appear divided, and so it's really easy to threaten us.” … “The great thing about the US is that you have freedom of speech, and we’re not squelching that it's just wisdom. Like it's not wise to be publicly disrespecting the leader on a world stage.” [15:09] Bob talks about the importance of working together as a team in order to set a good example for other countries and ourselves as we understand and overcome this crisis. “When we have international threats, we really should show the world, ourselves, and each other, what it looks like to be good human beings and to play as a team.” … “It's a great application all the way down to our businesses.” [19:06] Ken discusses the positives of being able to speak freely without fear of being punished for your opinion, but advises that one speaks wisely. “We don't have to agree. But we can at least respect each other.” [22:06] Ken talks about one of the main things he believes we can do in the midst of this crisis. [26:39] Bob says that one of the most important, practical things we can do is, “At the very least, show some solidarity for the people of Ukraine.” [27:45] Ken discusses the importance of learning from this experience. He also talks about how it’s important to continue growing and becoming the best at technology when considering that it’s the newest battlefield. [28:36] Bob mentions that it’s important to be aware of opportunities to help such as, “people who may be displaced out of their home, they don't have opportunities to continue to support their families.” [29:35] Brad talks about the challenges of truly wrapping your head around the reality in Ukraine. [31:28] Bob discusses the importance of securing all of your and any clients’ data and info. “Make sure everything is secure. Double and triple check, make sure everything's updated. It's probably a really good time to do that right now.” [32:16] Ken wraps up by talking about how learning and maturing as a country is the most important thing anyone can do during this heart wrenching time. “I think there's a lot we can learn. Maybe there are some things that we can do. But learning I think is critical in this type of thing. It's sad to see the immaturity, so I would love to see people just kind of mature up so that we can be a united front.” | |||
| 13 Oct 2021 | Ep 90: New laptop for you! | 00:51:36 | |
Summary: On today’s episode we break down the pros and cons of investing in technology and other tools. It’s important to understand exactly what you’re investing in and what it will do to help accelerate your business. Technology is a vast, evolving field so it’s also important to ensure that your information and assets are thoroughly protected. One of the ways you can achieve this is through redundancy. Protect the information that makes your business unique by keeping an updated, spare copy. While technology and tools can really benefit your agency, allowing your business to rely on a single platform, or tool, is deadly. Also, forgetting that you have 27 different tools for 2 jobs is definitely very costly. Being aware, thoughtful, creating redundancy, and assessing your tools will help your agency be ahead of the curve.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:44] Brad opens today’s episode by talking about Bob's radio voice and the new Apple iPhone 13. [1:59] Brad asks the guys, “When is the right time to make some upgrades or to give your employees some new gadgets? When is the right time to invest in technology?” [4:27] Brad talks about what technology he provides for new, full time employees, and how he wants their first day at Anthem Republic to feel like Christmas. [7:50] Ken discusses his strategy for preventing a buildup of unused computers. [8:23] Ken says that investing into your employees by providing them with technology that will help them be more productive or produce better results will pay for itself. He also asks, “From a security side of things, how do you control all these laptops and what's on them, to the level that you need to for your business?” [11:11] Bob asks about other kinds of tech and talks about evaluating their usage and value on a yearly basis. [11:31] Brad talks about automation and his timeline for upgrading technology. [12:23] Ken contemplates the psychological aspect of opening a new computer box from Apple. [13:36] Bob discusses the importance of redundancy. He also continues the conversation about evaluating the tools your company relies on and how a shutdown could negatively affect your business. “What type of technology are we relying on that if it went away would hamper our business?... How do we keep on top of that, and always have redundancy in a backup?” [15:13] Ken recommends that every laptop should have a ‘backup cloud’ backup solution that is different from Dropbox to protect the information that your business runs on. [17:45] Ken talks about physical hard drives and other methods of protection for your information. “You're making information, so you gotta protect that.” [18:04] Brad discusses his perspective on hard drives and redundancy. [21:30] Bob talks about the questions he asks his employees to, “Keep us thinking about how to be redundant and self-sufficient, but it also keeps us ahead of the curve.” [27:11] Ken talks about the importance of awareness when your agency has many third party tools, and how those subscriptions can really add up. [29:11] Bob discusses a cost reducing method where your clients pay a fee of some sort that helps cover the cost of the third party tools you use. “If you do have an expense like that where you have a subscription figure out ways to charge the clients and encourage them pay for that subscription.” [32:10] Brad considers how to make sure that your data on the cloud is protected in the future. [33:08] Ken talks about how, “There is always a backdoor for the government to be able to get access to any data for any company.” [38:05] Ken concisely summarizes his perspective on investing in technology when he says, “I think the point is to invest into it and to be aware of it.” [42:05] Bob talks about how to be a leader for your agency when investing in technology. [46:02] Bob mentions a book called “This is How They Tell Me the World Will End” that is about cybersecurity and vulnerability. [49:41] Ken says that it is crucial to have a strategic mindset and stack the odds in your favor. [50:36] Bob concludes this episode by briefly talking about ensuring that your agency has cybersecurity from all angles.
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| 23 Dec 2020 | Ep 52: How do you give bonuses, throw parties and more in 2020? [Christmas Special] | 01:00:47 | |
Summary: In this episode we discuss how we are approaching normal end of year activities in a new remote-ish landscape in a time where profits may not be as plentiful and parties may not be as comfortable. We talk bonus structures, socially-distance parties (#thumbsdown), the absolute importance of diversification going into 2021, and the systems and processes that are part of creating predictable revenue.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:39] Bob introduces today’s topic, asking the Guys what Christmas gatherings are going to look like in 2020 and what to expect for 2021. [2:07] Ken shares that Metacake typically has a Christmas party that some partners and clients are invited to attend. They always have an end of the year tshirt design and announcement at the holiday party as well, so that’s something that will happen again this year- at Arrington Vineyards, a gorgeous vineyard and winery in Middle TN. They have safe and socially-distanced options that Metacake will take advantage of! [4:42] Brad and his company will have a small gathering at his home to celebrate the holidays. [6:04] Ken stresses the importance of Holiday parties for morale’s sake. It’s been a rough year so finding a way to create a small gathering safely to celebrate is the way to go. [6:59] Bob asks about giving bonuses this year in the context of agency life. [7:26] Brad shares that he gives 2 types of bonuses, one that is across the board to a degree and one that has to do with the people on his team that are directly responsible for profit. [8:54] Ken asks Brad about the bonus structure he uses and how he decides to let his employees take part- they also discuss SEP’s and how soon they allow employees to benefit from that. [9:13] Brad dives into Simplified Employment Pensions and how his company uses them to provide retirement benefits to his employees. [10:45] Brad continues, saying that as a small business they are trying their best to stay lean during this season until they have a better idea of what the next 6 months look like. So bonuses are very much dependent on and tied directly to profits and where they came from. [12:12] Ken talks about how Metacake structures bonuses, saying that there’s a profit percentage that is split across a pool of people. “The discipline of doing a great job is part of the job description- you don’t get bonuses for doing a great job.” He talks about the value added by an employee and how that is massively important when considering bonuses. [14:37] Brad talks bonuses as a small company, and how important it is that those people who directly contributed to your bottom line need to be compensated and shown appreciation for what they’ve done and worked hard for. [15:36] Bob asks about special gifts or surprises for clients. [16:19] Ken says that Metacake often sends gifts out after New Years instead of with every other holiday gift. [17:47] Brad says that back in November he and his team began talking about what 2021 might look like for them, talking about how they’ll wrap up the year and what cashflow looks like, etc. Most clients want to relax during the holidays and for a lot of them, their fiscal year doesn’t end in December so there is less pressure. [19:24] Ken shares that usually during December there are a lot of projects they are trying to finish off and wrap up with clients, mostly execution for his team. Currently they are looking at the type of strategic changes they can make entering into 2021, with so much that has changed and this “new normal” that may or may not have longevity. [22:05] Ken “I’m looking at how we diversify even more aggressively across different types of sales channels… just being service based is risky to me… we’re trying to figure out how we diversify so that we can be less on the peaks and valleys of seasonality and be more consistent across the board.” [23:00] Brad predicts that something very positive is going to happen in 2021! Ken agrees. [23:51] Bob “For me, it’s kind of like, can’t get any worse, right? There’s five vaccines, Covid is going to get tackled somehow.” [24:12] Bob continues, saying that getting to come back into the world after Covid is tackled means that growth is bound to happen. “I also feel like there’s a lot of innovation that has taken place… even small startups during the past year have innovated and done some really cool things.” [24:53] Brad reflects on the way that Covid has affected businesses, saying that such a strong change in such a short window of time has taught him to get over things in a way that he couldn’t before.
[27:02] Ken talks disruption, and says that this mindset shift has been great for a lot of people, to realize that keeping your mindset in the offensive is the way to go- which is easy when things are going great but not so easy when times are hard.
[29:39] Bob says that when business does well, your clients will remember who was with them through the winter. So as clients begin to pick back up and do well in 2021, they’ll remember that you stuck around and did what you could to help them survive and thrive. [30:18] Ken talks hiring during “winter” and how this should be a time that you hire people who are high-quality people now if you find them, because finding great people when you really need it is always challenging. [31:58] Bob asks about closing out books for 2020, asking if collections are difficult right now and how The Guys are maneuvering through that. [32:19] Brad says that he has noticed clients who are having trouble paying their bills on time, so he is trying to work with them as much as possible. Some projects are being moved into 2021’s books so that they can close up 2020 efficiently. [34:00] Ken shares that Metacake only uses automated billing, so that end of year rush to collect isn’t an issue. It an be difficult to take a more aggressive approach with this, but totally worth it in the end. [35:06] Ken continues, saying that collecting paper checks is one of the biggest risks as an agency business. A mentor told him once that the biggest risk to your business is accounts receivable- “If you can’t get your accounts receivable in order, you’ll go out of business thinking you’re making money.” [37:55] Brad adds that sometimes he does feel like a giant credit card for some clients who are 60 to 90 days out- stressing even further the importance of taking a different approach to collecting as an agency. [39:36] Ken: “I think one of the challenges with being a small business is actually enforcing agreements and then also keeping the relationship.. There has to be a balance, you have to make sure you’re not getting steamrolled and you’re also being kind and empathetic.” [40:29] Ken continues, saying that when you purchase something online, there is a process that you follow, with little room for flexibility in the purchase. And because that process left very little to no room for flexibility, you didn’t question it.
[42:31] Brad says that the age of the clients will have something to do with this as well- if they’re younger and closer to Millennials, they will be more comfortable with processes and fitting into existing systems. But older generations may be more likely to ask to sit down and talk, to work on “the art of the deal” to customize the agreement for their company or their needs. [43:02] Ken agrees, saying that there can be a hybrid of both. One way of presenting things to a client who is older- make sure they understand that online marketing versus traditional in-store retail marketing is NOT the same. If you can position yourself as the authority on that topic and subject matter, they will lean into your expertise more and are more likely to trust that the process you’ve established is the best for their business as well as yours. [44:14] Brad isolates 2 things Ken has talked about today that he can carry into the New Year. #1- Go Electronic and #2 Create strong systems so that your clients know what to expect. [44:41] Brad asks Ken and Bob about processes and systems- Is this the time where you guys identify those issues and create plans for changing? [45:02] Bob talks about the medium-sized agency he’s working with currently. He is the head of the digital side of the agency and his focus right now is figuring out how to be more integrative and less siloed inside the agency.
[47:09] Ken talks about how agencies can sometimes be slow with changes due to the levels of communication that projects have to pass through. [48:17] Bob talks about how typically in agencies, making changes takes several steps for approval and is a slow process. How can you shore up those processes and use technology to integrate? [49:36] Ken asks Bob what 2021 looks like for agencies- what should agencies look at adapting? [50:06] Bob says that 2021 will be a great year for agencies- with more people buying online and using ecommerce and that will only increase. He predicts new startups in 2021 and says that it is MORE important now than ever to move towards becoming a media company instead of just an agency.
[53:10] Brad is focusing on 2 things in the New Year. What is making us money and what is making my client money? [55:37] Ken adds that agencies have to get more efficient with the way they produce products. Expand beyond believing that your product is just your service. Also, get into the 21st century! Tech is here to stay, so move forward into that instead of sticking with traditional models and systems- this will make it that much easier to adapt and pivot. [57:50] Ken predicts big changes in the ecommerce world- Facebook ads alone will be disrupted and leave many clients to figure out something different- get ahead of that curve and focus on working with clients to show them other ways of selling their products. | |||
| 03 Nov 2021 | Ep 93: Blockchain will change marketing | 00:44:44 | |
Summary: On today’s episode, we talk about blockchain technology and how it could impact marketing. First of all, what is blockchain? It’s a buzzword, not many understand. Blockchain is a decentralized technology that uses an online financial ledger, validated by the community. It is connected to past transactions using a hash to eliminate any fraud, interceptions, or manipulation. These “blocks” of financial information are all connected to form a blockchain. Translation: it’s VERY honest. As an agency, it’s vital that you conduct your own research about cryptocurrency and blockchain to improve your understanding of these revolutionary concepts. Ads on TV these days are extremely annoying, and they shouldn’t have to be. It’s important to be aware that through blockchain, which ads you see, and any incentives, could drastically change. Although technology is helpful, it is simply a tool, and should not define any moral standards. Ensure that you and your agency have a healthy balance of technology in your culture by allowing time without technology, and remembering your double-bottom-line.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:38] Bob opens this episode by chatting about his new MacBook Pro, Apple, M chips, and Intel. [4:56] Brad talks about a positive experience with Facebook that he had recently. [7:42] Brad talks about BAT (basic attention token) and introduces today’s topic, blockchain [10:13] Ken talks about how, “people really hate ads. But it clearly pays for everything. There's got to be a better way.” [17:30] Bob brainstorms a few ideas about how to make watching ads more effective and less annoying. [17:35] Brad discusses how although a consumer could offer information to marketing companies, these companies often discover things people don’t know about themselves through cookies and targeted marketing. “there's things that I don't even know, in my subconscious that probably Facebook actually knows about me. I'm not going to be able to give that to Facebook, because I don't know that about myself.” [18:29] Ken talks about how blockchain can make information gathering be more transparent. [19:33] Bob breaks down what blockchain is. “In a nutshell, what you have is a decentralized system or method of transferring data back and forth that is secure and cannot be intercepted and manipulated.” [20:16] Ken adds that, “blockchain is the technology that coins like Bitcoin and those kinds of things run on. It's decentralized, but it's also a ledger.” [24:07] Bob talks about how blockchain could eliminate the central control centers in countries around the world. [26:07] Ken discusses the importance of being intentional about learning as much as possible about blockchain. He also talks about the potential areas blockchain could be applied to in the future. “embrace it. learn about it. Don't say ‘I don't get that’. It's possibly as revolutionary or more revolutionary than the internet” [29:41] Bob relates blockchain to virtual reality in Ready Player One. [32:03] Brad connects blockchain back to potential marketing strategies and ideas. [32:22] Ken adds on, saying, “you could basically pay people for what their time is worth and how much influence they have… maybe each person has their endorsements.” [34:04] Ken discusses the importance of unplugging to find freedom in life and to live in the moment. [35:19] Ken contemplates the moral issue that arises when humanity relies on technology as the only way to achieve honesty in a business and even personal settings. [37:12] Brad talks about how profit has driven, “our digital world to run on greed and power.” [41:43] Ken discusses the importance of balance in technology and in blockchain. “Anything unbalanced is bad.” | |||
| 14 Apr 2023 | Ep 128: How to price correctly and sell on value | 00:48:24 | |
Subtitle: Have you ever been inside a store, picked up an item you thought was unique, looked at the price, and then put the item back on the shelf? This is a universal experience in all industries, and is particularly an issue in the agency world. How can we as business owners and professionals achieve successful value-pricing? In this episode, the guys discuss the concept of value pricing and how it can be applied to businesses. They emphasize the importance of differentiating your business and establishing yourself as an authority in your field. They also discuss the significance of positioning through branding, creating your own category, shifting your mindset, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: In this episode the guys discuss the concept of value pricing and how it can be applied to businesses. Ken dives into the idea behind value pricing and the role that context plays in determining the price people are willing to pay. He explains that all the information you provide about your product or service is what influences the price people are willing to pay. The gap between the cost and the result is the value, and the more you can push those two factors apart, the closer you get to an irresistible offer. Brad talks about the importance of differentiating your business in a crowded market. He says that as a business or a product, you can only be the cheapest, the best, or the only one. Ken adds that to differentiate your business, you need to establish your positioning through branding and determine your superpower. Bob talks about the importance of establishing yourself and your business as the authority and how that ties into value pricing. He explains that becoming the authority means establishing your own category, creating your own language, and shifting your mindset. Ken discusses the value in becoming aware of the business you’re really in. He emphasizes the importance of understanding your industry and your competitors and knowing how to position your business within that context. He says that if you're not aware of the business you're in, you'll encounter problems. Ken asks, "How do you move to value-based pricing?" and discusses the truth that no one wins if you don’t charge enough money. He explains that you need to use information in psychology to create awareness of all the value around the service that you have. He also talks about how he uses budgeting and cost plans to illustrate to the clients that there is a reason for each part of the price and if they want a price drop, something will need to be cut. Brad talks about clients asking for a reduction in price and uses an analogy to illustrate how this can become an issue in the service industry. He says that it's like going to a doctor and saying, "Doctor, I need a hip replacement," without a proper diagnosis. He emphasizes the importance of establishing yourself as the authority to prevent clients from asking for unreasonable reductions. Bob discusses the importance of positioning yourself as the obvious expert. He says that you need to position yourself as the authority every single time; otherwise, you'll be seen as a commodity. He emphasizes that the difference between those who are able to do value-based pricing and those who struggle with a commoditized business and an hourly model is their ability to position themselves as an authority. Ken talks about the importance of removing your assumptions, beliefs, and preconceptions in order to be able to "charge 10 times as much for that." He emphasizes that you need to think outside the box and be creative in determining the value of your services.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:54] Ken opens this episode with a chat about how he is not a pet person. [1:41] Brad says that he’s so thankful for the guys and the time spent together on this podcast. [3:53] Bob discusses new AI voice technology and dives into possible future applications. [7:05] Ken introduces today’s topic “we're going to talk about how to charge anything for anything.” [7:21] Ken dives into the idea behind value pricing as well as the role context plays. “All the stuff that you say, is really what influences the price people pay.” … “That gap between like, what does it cost me, and what is the result; that's the value. Everyone's pushing those as far apart as possible, and the more you can push those apart, the closer you get to an irresistible offer.” [10:40] Brad talks about the importance of differentiating your business. “As a business, and as a product, you can only be the cheapest, the best or the only.” [11:22] Ken peels back some of the layers of value pricing by discussing the crucial element of positioning through branding. “You have to get your positioning, we talk a lot about your branding, and like that kind of stuff. And like being like, what's your superpower?” [14:02] Bob talks about the importance of establishing yourself and your business as the authority and how that ties into value pricing. [16:25] Bob dives into the significance of establishing your own category, creating your own language, and shifting your mindset. [22:54] Ken discusses the value in becoming aware of the business you’re really in. “If you're not aware of the business that you're in then I think there's problems.” [25:33] Ken asks, “How do you move to value based pricing?” and discusses the truth that no one wins if you don’t charge enough money. [33:55] Brad talks about clients asking for a reduction in price and uses an analogy to illustrate how this can become an issue in the service industry. “It's like going to a doctor and saying, Doctor, I need a hip replacement. And the doctor is like, how do you know that? So they come with their own diagnosis, and they're looking for a doctor to prescribe something for them.” [36:14] Ken defines value pricing as “using information in psychology, to create the awareness of all the value around the service that you have.” He also talks about how he uses budgeting and cost plans to illustrate to the clients that there is a reason for each part of the price and if you want a price drop, something will need to be cut. [43:56] Bob discusses the importance of positioning yourself as the obvious expert. “You've got to position yourself as the obvious expert every single time otherwise, you're going to be seen as a commodity. that's the difference between those people that are able to do value based pricing and those who are struggling with a commoditized business and an hourly model.” [45:57] Ken talks about the importance of removing your assumptions, beliefs, and preconceptions in order to be able to, “charge 10 times as much for that.” [47:37] Bob wraps up by asking the listeners to, “Please like and recommend this podcast. We haven't asked you to do that in a while and to all you audio listeners, we do have a YouTube version of this. We haven't pushed that a whole lot lately either. So you can go to YouTube and just search up ‘agency exposed podcast’ and find us there.” | |||
| 23 Sep 2022 | Ep 116: Are you building a valuable asset? | 00:46:28 | |
Subtitle: What do you think of when you hear the word asset? Most people think of stocks, real estate, or some kind of commodity. While all of those things can be a wise investment, those aren’t the type of assets we’ll be talking about. Instead, we’ll be exploring how to build valuable assets and create investments for and within your business. We’ll also talk about verticals, the flywheel concept, business initiatives, AC units, and more on this exciting episode!
Summary: In today’s episode, we talk about building valuable assets. One way to build a valuable asset is to expand into another vertical. Having a focus and a skilled speciality is important, but it’s crucial to look for another vertical where those skills can be marketed. Most agencies already have a valuable asset, knowledge from their experience. This is something that many businesses highly value. Raising your prices, looking over your fixed pricing, and communicating with your clients are a few ways to prepare for the coming year while also retaining your business. Keep an eye out for any opportunities that may come your way, often, the best opportunities come during harsh conditions, so be ready for them. In this episode, we also talk about the flywheel concept. We believe that this concept is a great system that will allow for healthy growth and the creation of assets. Be aware of the state of the economy and ways you can prepare and invest before it's too late.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:40] Ken opens this week’s episode with a chat about the weather in England and AC. [3:32] Bob asks the guys if they’ve seen the impact of the economy for their businesses. [3:43] Brad talks about how he’s seen a lot of financial preparations for the coming year. [5:20] Ken discusses how he’s seen a lower level of consumer spending as well as, “opportunity to grow.” [11:17] Brad talks about the differences between the 2008 era and the state of the economy today. “I think the case right now is that it's gonna be a slow progression of cutting 10% of their fat. And I think that's healthy, because there's always 10% fat you could cut out of your business, and they're just using this as the opportunity to do it.” [12:02] Bob discusses the opportunity to explore other verticals and how to use the knowledge you’ve acquired as an asset. [14:44] Brad talks about the importance of having a balance of having a, “mix of clients that will sustain themselves when the market changes.” [20:26] Bob discusses the opportunity to revisit the fixed pricing on your contracts to help retain clients during the challenging economic times ahead. [23:41] Bob talks about the wide variety of things most agencies do and the opportunity to pitch them to existing clients. [24:47] Ken asks the guys, “are there any new business initiatives that you guys are launching?” [25:02] Brad talks about his business’ new vertical, the trucking industry. [31:36] Ken discusses Metacake’s business initiative, Dough Capital as well as some of the niches they have that set them apart and provide opportunities for growth and investment. “Over the last several years, we've put together essentially a capital fund for E commerce companies or direct consumer companies of a certain type. We launched that officially, earlier this year. It's called Dough Capital.” [36:28] Ken breaks down the flywheel concept and how his business uses it. [40:04] Ken talks about how he views agencies, what he believes their assets are, and how an agency can capitalize on their opportunities and assets. “What is the asset that you're creating? In the agency space, it's knowledge. So then how do you exploit that in a bunch of different places? How do you grow that? How do you protect it?” [45:16] Ken concludes this week’s episode by asking the listeners, “ Do you have a flywheel in your agency? Do you realize the knowledge and experience that you have the opportunity to create as an asset? And then what are you doing with that?” | |||
| 03 Jun 2020 | Ep 23: Remote Work - The Future of Agency Life or just a Fad? | 00:56:05 | |
Summary: Now that everything everywhere has changed, let’s ask one of the burning questions: do you even need an office anymore? Would that huge expense be better placed elsewhere? Many companies are abandoning the office completely, so what exactly has changed? Why is it ok to not have an office now where it wasn’t 3 months ago? And is fully remote a good thing? Sure, it sounds great to work from the beach everyday, but is that really a reality that is sustainable? Today we debate these questions as we determine the new work conditions of our own agencies. We also discuss another hot topic - what services are ACTUALLY selling right now?
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:45] The Guys talk about the new feelings of slight freedom that we’re starting to experience here in Nashville- though many are still quarantined, there isn’t as much anxiety about being out in the world as there was three months or so ago. [3:00] Brad: “There’s been good and bad during this quarantine… but I don’t want to take for granted the freedom that we have and the ability to just be human.” [3:40] Bob asks Ken about new data from Hubspot. [4:00] Ken: “One of the things I would like to know is what agency services are selling these days? What kind of leads are we getting and… how has that landscape changed?”
[5:56] Brad asks if the guys think that part of that uptick was because of the stimulus checks that were handed out.
[6:46] Bob asks: “Is this rise that we’re seeing… of business coming back going to happen quick enough to coincide with the end of the payroll protection plan, which was 90 days…. 8 weeks from however you got it.”
[8:15] Bob clarifies: “So the question is from the time that that starts to end- the payroll protection plan… to the point where business comes back up… are things going to get better?” [8:31] Brad talks about how many encourage others to buy in the stock market right now, while things are low. But we don’t know how long these benefits are going to last, right now people are getting a little bonus for their unemployment but that won’t last forever.
[10:15] Bob talks about how this type of uncertainty and change will naturally lead to certain industries being more hard-hit than others. For example, the real estate industry is being disrupted and may be in store for even more disruption, as many companies are asking themselves if office space is really necessary for their business.
[11:15] Ken: “I think reexamining the things that you do just because you do them every once in a while is healthy. And I think the way we work is definitely one of those things.” [11:30] Brad talks about how in recent months and years, there has been a natural movement towards more open spaces and allowing employees to come and go as necessary, and this change in style of work has just sped up the process of moving towards mobile and remote work across the board. [13:25] Ken talks about how many agencies have probably felt for a long time that they don’t need an office space, and how there has been social pressure to be ashamed if you don’t have a physical presence- almost as if you’re not a real business until you have an office.
[14:45] Bob talks about how that need to save face exists in other industries as well. New real estate agents are told to not drive a car older than 3 years, because then it would tell the client that you’re selling a lot of houses. [15:30] Ken mentions the mindset shift that has happened recently- that to some, having an office may actually appear wasteful and not a sign of health. Physical office spaces may have offered credibility in the past, but other things have taken the place of that. [16:45] Bob talks about the “phases” of leveling in business- the internet was the first leveling. And now a second leveling is happening and has been expedited. Currently, the focus is more on the work, the message, and the result. [19:19] Brad speaks to this “leveling.”
[21:15] Ken speaks on his experience of having a physical space that isn’t a huge, elaborate office or the standard “wow” factor that many agencies go for. Metacake has a small, 1920’s house that has many original features and is historical. It’s impressive, but not typical, interesting without being imposing. So there is a way to “wow” without being showy or grandiose about your workspace.
[22:45] Bob mentions that although an open workspace is a great idea in theory, “... it doesn’t take into account the uniqueness of every individual. And I think with an open workspace… some people are miserable… some people need to be sequestered. A closed door, need to be in silence. They can’t be interrupted or else they don’t function at a high level.” [23:39] Ken points out that that also depends on the task at hand- more creative tasks sometimes thrive in that co-working environment. [24:17] Brad says that even in his open-air office, most people wear headphones. Doing so is a way to isolate yourself, and tell everyone that you’re busy. Sometimes he wonders if they had their own office, would they be wearing their headphones? [26:05] Ken speaks to the down side to people working from home exclusively- when there is no teaching or mentoring around staying responsible for yourself, keeping a schedule, being disciplined, being taught some of these things can err too much on the side of irresponsibility. [25:55] Brad: “I think great mentorship happens through observing… I don’t know that through Zoom calls I could get that… being in a physical space with them, seeing how they interact with their employees, the way they keep their desk, etc…” [29:00] Ken speaks to the challenges of bringing new people on to the team, and how a new culture of working remotely will bring new challenges to the idea of building team culture and onboarding people to the systems for success that a company already has set in place.
[29:41] Brad talks about how easy it might be to “get lost” and isolate themselves even further from the team… things that go on at home, dynamics that they can’t control… isolation for them might become even more difficult. [30:27] Bob speaks about how giant companies with huge overhead are changing the overhead costs to create team-building for these people. That team-building budget has now been allocated to a weekly or twice-monthly team bonding exercise. [31:49] Brad: “I don’t often feel the need to connect deeply with people… it’s a deficit of my own that struggles because that’s not the case of my team… it doesn’t come naturally as a need or desire to me.” [33:05] Ken talks about how Metacake had been moving towards remote work days and being in relationship with each other even before the pandemic, so now things are moving towards that even more. [34:55] Ken continues: “In some ways, I found that it was easier to make these deeper connections… because you had a reason to ask how someone is doing.”
[37:15] Bob mentions that his wife has talked about new business opportunities for those who can help get home offices organized, get things set up for those who are moving towards remote working. This led to deeper thoughts about new opportunities for services that we can offer our clients. [38:50] Brad talks about employees asking for stipends to support working from home, and expresses that there is some hesitation about the challenge of maneuvering that with employees in the future. [39:25] Ken says that Metacake has been coaching their customers to ask how they can repurpose their knowledge. “You can naturally help with those skills and that provides value.” [41:00] Brad speaks about a live event that had a lot of RSVP’s prior to quarantine happening, so they created solutions to that virtual RSVP problem, which opened the event up virtually to a lot more people, and in turn provided more value that it would have otherwise.
[44:33] Ken talks about new opportunities within other industries to change how you do business. Gives example of an architectural firm running in a very antiquated way, and with the pandemic that has shifted massively, the governing body of that industry has been forced to change.
[47:20] Brad talks about a client who has just recently been forced to pay via ACH instead of a handwritten check, because quarantine makes getting signatures on checks very difficult. Forced change has been great for his company!
[49:30] Ken asks again: What are the services that your clients want? [40:50] Brad responds: There has been a mixture of freezing up with a lack of action, and being overzealous and taking action without thinking things through.
[52:30] Ken: While there are clients who say they don’t know what to do or how to take action, there are more that are looking for specific solutions and thought partners to think through problems that are similar across multiple industries. [54:20] Bob: “The opportunity now is for those of us in an agency who have done ecommerce, who have done social media marketing, who have done branding, who have done digital strategy… there’s going to be a lot of people pop up… and so to be able to separate ourselves and say that we are the experts.” | |||
| 31 Dec 2021 | Ep 97: How will you make 2022 a success? | 00:47:02 | |
Summary: On today’s episode we talk about the New Year, and some of the things we’re doing to create growth and success in our businesses. As time goes on, technology advances. It’s important to understand what the metaverse is in order to adequately prepare for it. The past two years have been challenging and have brought about a lot of changes. Although it may seem like a disadvantage, use this season to find opportunities for your agency, and prioritize them so that they can be efficiently accomplished in 2022. Don’t forget to check out our giveaway! Details on how to win are in the show notes. We at Agency Exposed wish you a Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year! Let’s show 2022 why winter is our season.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:53] Ken talks about his team’s Christmas party and their company theme for this year, “winter is my season.” [2:30] Ken explains what “winter is my season” means, and why Metacake chose it as their theme. “When most people see winter, they're scared they see uncertainty and that's normal. But you can be one of the rare few that see it as an opportunity” [4:22] Bob tells the listeners how they can win the winter is my season sweatshirt giveaway. “Tag us and use the hashtags #winterismyseason and #agencyexposedpodcast on social media and promote about one of the episodes that helped you and your business.” [5:28] Bob talks about all of the radical shifts that have occurred over the last two years. [7:11] Brad asks the guys, “What's your window of opportunity in 2022?” [7:14] Bob discusses the negative impact digital advertising has had on many businesses recently and how he believes it has ignited the question of what will digital marketing look like in the future. “What are you going to prioritize in your business?” [9:10] Ken talks about some of the things his business is prioritizing in the upcoming year. “we're moving into a capital arm of our business…and we're actually doing our first NFT marketplace.” [12:26] Brad discusses what he sees his business focusing on next year. “I see this next year as partnering with some other agencies from around the country.” [16:23] Brad talks about the difference between visionaries and opportunists by comparing Elon Musk to Mark Zuckerburg. [19:18] Bob gives his definition of the metaverse. “It's a convergence of all types of things online.” [22:03] Ken asks the guys how to guide a mid size business as they’re seeking help in understanding and preparing for the metaverse. [23:15] Bob talks about what he believes will be the future of marketing. [27:01] Ken asks, “What are some practical steps that agencies can take to educate themselves?”. [32:56] Brad talks about an impactful statement by Steve Jobs and how that’s influenced his view of the importance of practicality of technology. “Steve Jobs said one thing that always resonated with me. He said, “we don't try to sell something based on features. We sell them on how that product will change somebody's life. And then Zuckerberg did that video. He never showed how it's going to change people's lives. It was just for entertainment.” [35:00] Bob talks about some of the positive outcomes of the metaverse and begins a conversation that contemplates some of the creative applications of the metaverse. [43:07] Ken discusses how technology doesn’t necessarily cause the issues, but rather it accentuates and increases them. [46:20] Ken, Brad, and Bob wish the listeners a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! | |||
| 13 Jun 2022 | Ep 109: What would you do differently if you had to start over? | 00:52:10 | |
Subtitle: Today we break down what things we would do differently in our agencies if we had to start over completely. We talk about the importance of profit, risk, autonomy, partners, dreams, mindset, aging, and more in this week’s packed episode!
Summary: On today’s episode, we discuss the things we would change about our agencies if we had to start all over, knowing everything that we do now. Risk is a part of life, and your ability to manage the downside of risk lessens as you have more responsibility. When it comes to business, it’s important to take the risks that lead to learnings and rewards early on in your career. Taking risk is important and can profit your business, and it’s much easier to learn and succeed if you are only having to support yourself. Profit is also an important aspect of business and we believe that setting goals for net profit early on will help your business grow and succeed. It’s also important to consider bringing in a partner. Loneliness is very real and can add an additional challenge to starting a business. When you bring in a partner, they can lighten your load and be a support and a listening ear. We also talk about the importance of scale, assets, and delegation. Creating autonomy in your agency can make it easier to take a sabbatical, get a new perspective on your agency, and even start another business. Your mindset is key in this process; think of it as making changes to improve versus fixing mistakes.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:27] Bob kicks off this week’s topic and says, “Today, we're going to talk about what we would do differently if we were to go back and do it all over again, what would we do differently?” [2:32] Brad talks about a conversation he had with his son that has helped him reflect on his job. “My son asked me yesterday, he said, ‘Dad, is the job you're doing right now your dream job?’” [4:09] Bob mentions how some people have asked him, “What would you have told your younger self? What have you learned that you wish someone told you?” He also talks about how change and personality growth influence your passions and career. [5:42] Ken talks about one of the main things he would change if he were to go back. “Take business risks… don't chase safety. Chase, the big thing or the big dream that you have that this is what I'm put on the earth to do.” [10:31] Brad discusses the importance of figuring out who you are when you’re young. [12:04] Brad talks about his passions and how they directed him to his career. [15:36] Ken discusses another shift he would make if he started over. “I would think about profit first. I would figure out exactly what profit I wanted and then build my business around that.” [17:31] Ken mentions his belief about the ideal amount of net profit your business should have. [20:54] Brad talks about how if he were to start over, he would make his business more autonomous, “so that, you know, after the first five or five years, and didn't really need me anymore.” [22:21] Brad mentions the importance of not only making business changes but also how there are, “personal mindset changes I would make.” [24:01] Brad describes how he feels about his career. “I almost feel a little bit of grief.” [25:36] Bob discusses some ways he has overcome his grief about aging and also mentions a mindset book called, ‘Breaking The Age Code’ by Becca Levy. [29:04] Ken talks about the importance of a positive mindset when aging. “If you believe getting old is bad, you probably will get there in a slow, decrepit way. If you believe getting old is good, then you probably will get there in a better way.” [36:35] Brad talks about the balance between challenging yourself with new tasks and having an overflowing plate and none of your work is done to the standard you want it to be. [38:54] Bob reflects on one of the early Agency Exposed episodes featuring Hannah Paramore where they discussed the importance of having a hobby. [43:35] Bob talks about an adage and relates it to career and life decisions. “Every time you say yes to say no to something else, you're saying no to something else. And so you've got to really look at that and say, you know, what do I want to say yes to.” [44:13] Brad asks the guys, “What is the one thing you would change if you could change one thing? What is the biggest change that you would make? Or would you do it at all? Do you think this business is like, wow, I don't know if I'd go back and redo this business. I think I'd might go into something else.” [44:53] Ken talks about how humans will often focus on the negative aspects or things they need to fix when there is value and opportunity already there. He also talks about one of the main things he would change if he could go back. “I would probably build more towards assets and delegation and scale.” [49:07] Brad talks about one of the biggest changes he’d make if he was starting over. “I try to fire myself every day so that I would force myself to build a business with a lot more autonomy. Then I have more freedom to be able to either grow it in a different way and think differently about it or even start a new business.” [50:22] Bob discusses how he would, “do more with people. I would surround myself with people, I would be more open to potentially bring in partners, and not think that I had to do it all myself.”
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| 26 Aug 2020 | Ep 35: Employees vs Contractors - What’s the Ideal Team Makeup? | 00:57:55 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we’re breaking down the “image” of a giant advertising office with a giant team vs the reality. We hit on the pain points of proving yourself to new clients, managing dynamic work preferences in a changing work landscape, and the deep, long-lasting benefits of a blended team with varied levels of experience. How do you determine which roles require a full-time employee versus an independent contractor? How much access should those contractors have to your clients directly, if any? What are the pros and cons of each? We’re diving into all this and more!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:38] Bob introduces our topic- contractors, team composition, and how you communicate with the outside world about that. [3:21] Ken says that although there is an image of a large office with a ton of employees, in reality “there’s always a blend of staff and that’s usually a good thing.”
[4:16] Brad shares his experience with a team of developers in Romania that he has a strong business relationship with. It began 10 years ago and has only grown stronger since then. Technically they would be considered freelancers but the relationship is so strong, that team feels like an extension of his team here in the States. [7:18] Bob asks what is the main reason for maintaining that relationship over the years, when certainly there have been opportunities to bring it closer. Is it availability, skillsets, etc? [7:26] Brad says it used to be cost, but that has definitely gone up over time. “We’ve had to adjust a lot of their fees and stuff for us, right now I wouldn’t say they’re super competitive to the US… but they know so much information, especially clients that we’ve dealt with for years… there’s a value in that.”
[9:25] Bob asks Ken about outsourcing. [9:28] Ken says that the general rule of thumb for him is that if it’s a core business need, then you really want someone internal, or full time… “especially in niche specialities, which is a lot of what we do.”
[11:40] Ken continues: Not only is it important to be forward-thinking in this way for your own business, but it is tremendously helpful to express this to your clients as well.
[14:05] Brad shares that a recent client expressed worry about this and asked if a project would be done by his agency or if it would be outsourced- they have had bad experiences in the past in this way. [15:00] Brad and Ken talk about how it really shouldn’t make a difference who’s doing the work, so long as the client experience is stable and seamless. For example, if they’ve worked with a specific person to establish the projects scope, etc and then are moved to work with a totally different team for execution, the switch can be jolting and not always a seamless experience.
[16:51] Ken mentions that the argument could be said for the other side as well, that because contractors are solely responsible for their own business, and compared to an employee that gets paid either way they may invest more in the project and do a better job.
[18:31] Brad says that even those employees that don’t work directly with the main team should get an invite to team events and functions. [22:13] Bob speaks about companies like Fivver and Upwork being available to help create entire agencies of freelancers. While this may be a quick, somewhat easy and direct way to get employees quickly, attempting to build a lasting company on this strategy is questionable. [22:19] Ken adds that this is definitely not a winning strategy. [22:52] Brad says there is a difference between a contractor that is doing a specific, niche part of a project and will never have face-to-face interaction with the client- versus someone who’s a contractor that has face time with the client and needs to be fully bought into your company culture.
[24:46] Ken switches gears to the dynamics of agencies hiring and working closely with other agencies. Do you keep them behind the scenes or bring them into the picture with the client? How do you communicate that relationship? [25:46] Brad speaks on how Anthem does this. Typically the partner agency doesn’t lead on strategy. He always makes sure the partner agency comes in with a very defined, strong statement of work and a detailed list of deliverables so the client can see everything very clearly. This helps to prevent scope creep, which tends to be worse as more hands reach into the project.
[27:47] Ken speaks on Metacake’s experience of being hired as an Ecommerce specialist. Typically MC leads strategy on this front, bringing in smaller sub contractors for more niche parts of the larger project. [31:27] Bob asks for platforms that have helped with finding contractors. He mentions a private Slack group for Nashville- NashDev.
[33:56] Brad speaks to the level of healthy competition that those platforms create. Quality of work, speed, cost, etc are all wound into the platform algorithm and help to produce high quality candidates with varied skillsets at competitive prices. [36:00] Ken talks about how access to these high-quality creatives allow for more risk taking and new opportunities in projects. The cost is cheaper, the track record and portfolio is right there for you, so why not ask them to try out this project and see where it takes us? [39:11] Bob speaks on the quality of people available on UpWork specifically, and how the algorithm seems to have worked out the nuances of how to promote and reward competition between qualified freelancers.
[41:10] Ken talks about how Metacake uses freelancers from UpWork for smaller animation projects, with the lead designer doing all the art direction and giving feedback. This frees up so much time for other less specialized projects. [44:46] Bob: “The value that we bring as agencies to our clients- what we’re really good at- is the strategy, our knowledge, our background. And that always has to guide the freelancers, and that has to kind of govern where we go…”
[47:47] Ken talks about finding the balance of when it’s appropriate to use a freelancers versus when bringing someone in-house may be more beneficial. [50:50] Brad talks about how important it is to integrate those who will have direct contact with your employees- freelancers who come in for projects often should feel a part of the team and well-integrated when they come in on a project. [53:00] Brad continues “What I found is really valuable for me, the best freelancers are the ones where when I bring them in, there’s a passion for the client and there’s a passion for the end result that is hard to find and that is worth more than anything.”
[55:41] Ken clarifies: “Full time means I have access full time” and it’s important to define those parameters with your internal as well as external team members. | |||
| 12 May 2021 | Ep 72: Become a Student of the Data (A Day in the Life of Brad Ayres) | 00:51:43 | |
Summary: Today we’re talking to Brad Ayres about his daily routine. We talk morning rituals- including reading business and finance news as well as staying up to date in the applicable industries for his clients. As a creative personality that also loves number crunching, Brad’s experience of Agency ownership is deeply dependent on delivering results. This means gathering, deciphering, and understanding the data on a daily basis, and lucky for Brad this is also deeply interesting and life-giving for him. He opens up about finding a balance of rational and emotional thinking when making important decisions, how he deals with stressful situations in business, and the significance of outside passions and hobbies on his mental health. Stay Tuned!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:50] Bob opens this week’s episode and introduces Brad- who will be the focus of our Day in the Life Series today. We don’t know a whole lot about Brad, he’s a shy guy and doesn’t like to be the focus of attention- so we need a little background! [2:32] Brad tells us about his first job interview, it was with a Mad Men-esque guy who asked him to draw a disposable cup on the spot. This was in 198, and he wound up getting a job on the design team there. Before computers, everything was still done by hand and he wound up working in illustrations and even writing copy. [6:07] Ken asks how he got into advertising and why Brad was drawn to it. [6:10] Brad talks about graphic design vs graphic communication. “I love that part of being able to come up with strategies… and I love commerce, so for me I could do art but I can do it in a way that can affect people, that can actually affect commerce, can make money.” [7:30] Brad went to school for graphic design at the College for Creative Studies in Detroit, and at the time the city had more fortune 500 companies than anywhere in the world. So there were a lot of hands-on examples of how their degrees could translate to agencies within different industries. [9:10] Bob asks about Brad’s day these days… what does a day in his life look like now? [9:28] Brad Typically waking up between 6 and 7, he’s a slow starter and not a morning person. Step One is getting his coffee, and his brain is wired to think a lot in the morning. He sort of over exercises that muscle in the morning, to the point that he’s almost burnt out by noon. So the day is planned according to that flow of energy.
[12:41] Ken asks about the comparison of having that routine versus what he walks through now. Has there been a notable difference? Is there a substantial mental clarity from working out? [12:56] Brad talks about the power of having a routine versus not having a routine, saying that if that routine includes exercise that’s even better. He’s noticed that his back tends to get sore more often because he’s sitting for long periods of time, but there are other activities he enjoys and tries to make time for a few times a week. This includes mountain biking and running from time to time.
[15:22] Brad and Ken discuss the “muscle” of thinking analytically, and talk about the value of understanding how to rest that muscle as needed. Brad schedules his time according to this set amount of analytical and social energy, taking calls in the morning if possible but by 1:00 at the very latest. The afternoons are reserved for doing things that don’t take a lot of energy to put together. [16:16] Ken asks what types of activities Brad schedules in the morning that are better done early than at the end of the day. Strategy meetings, thinking through processes, doing financial spreadsheets, and planning. [16:38] Brad says that his creative outlet isn’t at the agency anymore, and that’s part of business. You have to always hire people that are better than you, and they have to hire people that are better than then. “Tip #1 for Creative people: Don’t think of yourself as #1, think of yourself as #2 and hire someone that is better than you.” [17:48] Brad says that the majority of his strategic time is spent understanding and trying to have a really deep grasp on his client’s objectives. He aims at seeing “the full forest” and understanding where there needs to be correction and where to take advantage of new opportunity. He wants to be able to tell clients “This is where you really want to be. Let me show you who you are, where you’re going, why this matters, why it’s important for your bottom line, and what we can do about it.” [19:15] Brad aims to fire himself every day. This means not doing the things that you don’t need to be doing, and only focusing on the things that only you can do. He calls this pain point out for smaller agencies, saying sometimes it’s impossible to not be involved in these smaller details. But you should always be thinking about how you can fire yourself from these tasks that truly can be delegated out to others. [21:12] Brad’s roles change according to the need of clients or his team. Overall, his role is strategy and creative director of sorts. He talks about working with people who are passionate about their work and who clearly care about what they are doing. He wants people to have strong convictions about their work and to want to do a great job for clients. [23:41] Bob talks about how Brad’s strong points are a rare combination. He’s highly analytical and scientific with a very passionate emotional side as well, and the two combined can actually be exhausting. He asks Brad about balancing those two sides of himself. [25:56] Brad says that while it can be exhausting, he also sees it as a gift. For example, while a lot of artists tend to become ruled by their emotions the rational side of him helps to drive that fear away. “As long as I can get the info, as long as I get enough information that I can make a very informed decision, I can literally turn off the emotion.” [27:44] Brad continues, saying that he wants his investments to be making more money for him than he could ever possibly make himself. And so every morning includes business news, financial news, updating himself in every industry and every sector- he wants to be as informed as possible about as many industries as possible. His stock portfolios are varied, so his working knowledge needs to be broad as well. [29:10] Ken points out a couple of Brad’s strengths and habits that help him move into the day with more confidence. Consuming data in the morning helps him to get his groundings and get focused on his purpose and place in life.
[31:25] Ken shares that in the last year he has realized that his all-or-nothing personality isn’t necessarily in the best interest of his full “life business” success, and he sees this as something that Brad does well. [32:22] Bob asks Brad about being a more emotional person, and whether the typical melancholy that comes with creativity is part of his life. [32:25] Brad says that for him, not so much. The more rational side of his brain keeps this from happening as much. He also gets very excited about technology and changes that are happening with Tesla and Elon Musk. “I think my excitement for life and things like that draw me out of the melancholy.” He talks about being able to identify things that help jumpstart him out of that melancholy if he feels it. [34:19] Brad continues with his morning routine, saying he will spend usually about an hour with his stock portfolio. Buying, selling, trading, etc. He also looks at his cryptocurrency wallet and guages how those are doing on any given day. “I do all in on almost anything I’m interested in… I’ll be fanatical for a month or two… then I move on to something else that’s interesting.” [36:30] Bob talks about the importance of learning and being willing to grow- that’s the common thread between morning routines for Brad and Ken both. [38:47] Ken says that people who aren’t challenging themselves or going outside of their comfort zones also tend to have those limitations in business as well. You have to be willing to try a bunch of things and build that excitement about stepping outside of your comfort zone. [40:04] Bob talks about how the neuroplasticity of our brains suffers from not challenging ourselves- physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. [40:41] Ken asks Brad about the types of things he’s doing during his work day. Is he behind a computer all day? Zoom calls all day? Meetings? [41:02] Brad says that most mornings are spent talking with clients and pushing data results. He is driven by creating results for clients, and so the data is fascinating to him. He says that some people may not care about the way a campaign goes beyond their design input or copywriting, but that’s a pet peeve of Brad’s- people who don’t care about the result, which is the whole point of the business to begin with. In order to be a better marketer, a better communicator, you have to dig into the data to decipher results. Brad considers this is primary role on a daily basis. [44:00] Bob summarizes how he views Brad’s drive to understand, “It’s about the strategy and doing it the best way so that you can win that game.” He plays to win. [45:41] Brad also spends a lot of time with his financial controller and works on forecasting to keep tabs on his clients and where they’re at on any given day. He also plays the role of human resources in his company, so there are a lot of tasks that take up his time regarding his employees and the hiring process. [46:25] Ken asks what Brad incorporates into his day to ensure that he’s not in reactivity mode all day long. [47:04] Brad uses calendar blocking to help him decrease those unpredictable tasks and possible time-wasters. As soon as a task pops up he blocks time for it and his employees schedule around that. If it’s not on his schedule, he’s not doing it! [49:45] Ken and Brad talk about the power of processes. “I found that forethought and organization and processes eliminate basically 99% of emergencies. And very few times are actual emergencies. [49:58] Brad is always working towards firing himself from roles and tasks that he could teach others. Slowly delegating what you can means freeing yourself up to take care of higher-level tasks that ONLY you can accomplish. | |||
| 15 Apr 2020 | Ep 16: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 4): The Power of Pause with guest Curtis Zackery | 01:10:03 | |
Summary: For most people, especially achievers, the idea of being forcefully shut down and locked home because of Coronavirus sounds like a nightmare. But what if it was actually a gift? An opportunity? How long has it been since you’ve had time in your calendar? How long has it been since you’ve seen the end of your todo list? We all like the idea of rest, but we’re oversubscribed in every way. Many of us were on a treadmill and had no way of getting off. Today, we’re discussing the POWER of PAUSE a.k.a. Rest with world-renowned author, speaker, and advisor to leaders of organizations across the globe, Curtis Zachery. CZ spends his life helping people find rhythms of rest that produce more joyful and effective lives. You may see that as boring, lazy and self-indulgent. Maybe you see it as a luxury of the elite. This couldn’t be farther from the truth. You can only give from a place of being filled. Rest is actually an activity, and it’s one that when used correctly produces real success and is even a true revenue driver.
The world is experiencing a pause in it’s day-to-day activities right now- on a scale that none of us have seen before. There is disruption at every turn, distraction from tasks and a deep desire to not squander this time that we have right now. So often we walk through life thinking “If only I had more time to rest, more time to spend with my family, more time to complete this personal project, more time to recharge…” Many of us have more time than we know what to do with these days! So how do we make the most of it? Today’s episode will be a deep dive into the power of proper rest and highlight the importance of taking advantage of this opportunity to reset our priorities.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About our Guest:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:23] Bob introduces this week’s guest Curtis Zackery, author of The Power of Rest, and asks The Guys how their week has been and how they’ve been holding up through the self-isolation period. [1:02] Brad says he is focusing on the day by day. “I try to focus on today and let tomorrow have it’s own way.” [1:30] Ken adds that this episode is being recorded via Zoom call.
[7:03] Bob asks Curtis for his perspective. Curtis speaks on the differing perspectives that people have of this time. Realities are different for everyone, and although it’s obvious, it’s important to recognize and acknowledge that fact.
[10:00] Curtis adds that even prior to all of this, there was incredible burnout in every part of business. Everyone is usually hoping for some time away, time to relax. But now that it’s being forced upon us, it changes the way that we respond. [11:08] Brad asks Curtis, why do you think it is that I cannot reach this point of rest without feeling guilt? What are some practical tips for sorting through all of the emotions? [12:15] CZ responds:
[13:30] People are realizing that this previous understanding of productivity or identity is a challenge against the way we feel about ourselves during this time. [14:45] CZ continues: “We’ve equated rest and laziness, and that is just not true…. Rest and leisure are not the same thing either!” [17:00] “With intentionality inside of our rest, we are going to become more productive.”
[18:10] Ken adds: Principles that produce really great results are counter cultural/ counter intuitive.
[21:15] Brad: “Because I’m not going a mile a minute, I feel way more present- my mind is present more because I don’t have a running to do list of places to go and things to get done in between working.”
[22:40] CZ adds: “Another misnomer is busy-ness benign equal to productivity.”
[26:10] Bob asks for practical tips for those who are uncomfortable with rest, who deal with that guilt and deal with that lack of affirmation. [27:00] CZ responds:
[33:20] CZ adds: Make a “To Don’t” list! You know what are barriers to your productivity, so call them out and be aware and intentional about those things.
[35:00] CZ continues: “What I care most about, I will put the most time, money, and effort into.” [35:30] Bob interjects: “A To-Don’t list is a great idea… there are always ways that we could have used our time more wisely… where do we plug in down time, rest, etc” [36:30] Brad adds: “Rest doesn’t feel the same for everyone… be aware of the things that fill you up versus the things that drain you, and balance those activities.” [40:00] Ken speaks about what might be on your “To-Don’t” list and why its important. “Maybe looking at the news isn’t a necessity every single day… especially during this time.” [41:00] Bob speaks on the idea that during down time or rest, we are losing opportunity.
[41:58] CZ chimes in: “For the most part, we as people are very good at ‘Whats’ and not so good at ‘Whys’.” [45:00] CZ continues: “Now that many of our ‘whats’ have fallen away, we are confronted with leaning on our ‘Whys’.” [45:20] Brad asks CZ about his inspiration for writing his book “Soul Rest.” [45:38] CZ: “It was the result of having a reformational experience in my life.”
[48:40] Brad asks if his book can be tied into a business perspective. [49:10] CZ: “The book is centered on the idea of finding our true value outside of the things that we can make and do… part of that journey for me was understanding my position in connection with God… ultimately I had to ask myself, is God enough for me? All of my life had been built around the idea that I am trying to produce, make and SHOW others that I am worthy to God." | |||
| 10 Feb 2021 | Ep 59: The Platforms vs The People... How vulnerable are you? | 00:53:45 | |
Summary: Never has there been more awareness of the power that platforms hold within our society - including our business society. Think about all of the platforms you and your clients critically rely on to do business. It can be downright scary, especially if you haven’t considered the path you would take if one of those critical platforms shut you down. But there is a way to win. If 2020 has taught us anything, it’s that it’s time to expect the unexpected. Today we talk about breaking your addiction to immediate ROAS, educating your clients on the importance of not relying on a single platform, and developing the skills that will allow you to act when new opportunities present themselves.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:33] Bob opens the show, another Zoom call for The Guys today. Brad is in California moving his daughter into college! [2:00] Bob talks about the big announcements this week that were made- between GameStop news and Amazon announcing leadership changes, there is a lot going on! [2:51] Bob asks Brad about his thoughts regarding these changes. [3:11] Brad talks about how investment strategies have changed with the coming-of-age of Millennials. A group of investors from Reddit decided to raise stock on hedge fund managers who have been shorting their bets for years. The idea is they are taking back control of the market from those who have played games for so long. Ultimately, the guys from Reddit flipped Wall Street on it’s head. [5:23] Ken talks about how this is a kind of rebalancing of power, and that’s a good thing! In recent years, the powers-that-be have been out of balance, but the events of this week have proven that the people can have an impact on rebalancing that power. [7:41] Brad talks about Facebook changes and drives home what we’ve been talking about on Agency Exposed for a few weeks- diversification. We don’t own Facebook, or any of the content that it produces. Facebook disappearing or losing power (seemingly) is very possible, so diversification is KEY. [9:12] Bob speaks on the changes that he’s seen over the years, and says that typically that change is for the best and winds up being great. But there are definitely negative impacts on individuals during these times of disruption. [10:30] Bob talks about Robinhood, the platform that helped with trading micro-stocks and has caused some chaos in the market over the last week or so. They have shut down now, and it begs a question- how are these things impacting the individuals behind the companies? And who are these people who have decided to use a platform to trade SO MUCH of their money? [13:40] Ken reflects on the shift in mentality in the marketing industry over the last few years, saying that cycles show themselves eventually but there is always that up and down disruption with the technology. There is so much that’s out of your control, so a lot of what has to happen is finding peace with the chaos and the things that you can’t control. [16:36] Ken shares a big tip for this chaotic atmosphere- diversification. Be aware of where you need to diversify so that if/when the unexpected happens you have many directions to pivot and shift. Be aware of your vulnerability. [19:00] Ken continues, saying that platforms like Facebook have gotten to the point that they feel beyond touch, impossible to topple. The “too big to fail” scenario applies here- and the disruption feels like a good thing to him.
[22:04] Bob talks about the growing pains of the internet and the way that we are changing and shifting to better serve ourselves. Because everyone has access to the same knowledge via the internet, we the people have access to changing businesses and the business landscape in a much more effective way. [24:24] Bob shares that new technology is driving out old corporations. With more access to information than ever, the people have the power to change the infrastructure of corporations. [26:21] Ken talks about his consumer/marketer brains and how they react to the changes going on right now. His consumer mind has long been uncomfortable with how brands are listening to their consumers and how that will impact his children over time. There does need to be competitive reform of these platforms.
[30:13] Ken reflects on how big data has made marketing more strategic, and rewards people who can understand the algorithm and hone those skills. He talks about the privacy issues that concern MANY of us with this information. [32:28] Bob reflects on privacy issues and the philosophy behind brands that he trusts, like Apple. His trust in Apple’s security expertise drives his brand loyalty, and the same is true for other brands as well. What we’re seeing with big shifts in big data and information security is a clash of philosophies in technology. Apple is owning and tightening up security on their platform, focusing on privacy for their customers vs Facebook and Google who want to democratize their platforms. [34:20] Ken says that Apple is one of the only companies that doesn’t monetize data from their users, while companies like FB and Google make millions of dollars from their users, so really it is a clash of businesses as well as philosophies. [37:13] Brad predicts that block-chain technology will be integrated into platforms next, and that will change the industry. He talks about a new cash app called Humble that will have a currency and run on blockchain, AND it will be international. This is truly groundbreaking in regards to people being in power. [39:37] Brad asks Bob and Ken about how they communicate with their clients when there are changes to a platform that are out of their control. [39:52] Bob says that a lot of clients don’t even know about those changes. He puts a lot of effort into educating them about how Facebook works (for example) and little details about what to update when a new iOS comes out.
[41:32] Ken says that this will affect agencies of all types- not just marketing or advertising agencies. Other parts of the website are going to be adjusted and changed to accommodate for new rules, such as branding and site design. [42:06] Ken talks about how ROAS on Facebook ads has been declining for a few years now, so there has been fair warning and reason to diversify.
[45:05] Ken talks about the emphasis that is put on owned data, and says that there is strength in developing a deeper knowledge of the way that you connect the dots between data points across channels. [47:00] Bob talks about other social platforms that have come about since quarantine became a thing. He mentions that Parler came and went, as well as Clubhouse, which is akin to a sophisticated Discord. He predicts more segmentation of social platforms as the technology catches up with the everyday person. [48:17] Ken talks about how a few years ago he never thought that anything would come along to truly challenge Facebook, and says that a big part of business is waiting as well as being ready. Often taking advantage of opportunities in a positive way is about waiting and being ready as well—when the opportunity arises, you’re able to present a solution. | |||
| 17 Mar 2023 | Ep 127: Processes = Profits | 00:43:13 | |
Subtitle: Processes. For many that word sounds boring, but for the wise owner it means profit. It’s one of your best tools to increase your profit. On this week’s episode, the guys dive right in, emphasizing the importance of developing and optimizing processes in business. By streamlining tasks and creating templates, businesses can work more efficiently and achieve better results. The guys also provide practical tips and tools that businesses can use to develop and optimize their processes, helping them to navigate uncertain times and achieve their goals.
Summary: The guys stress that in uncertain times, it's important to figure out how to optimize what you're doing and create less cost while generating more profit. They emphasize that this is why processes are important. Processes can help to standardize operations, streamline tasks, and help teams to work more efficiently. The guys discuss how to get started with developing processes, suggesting that the first step is to document how tasks are currently done. By documenting tasks, businesses can create a foundation for developing SOPs that can be used by all team members. The guys also discuss the importance of seeking an outside perspective when developing processes and systems. The guys then dive into the specifics of how processes and systems can be developed and optimized. They talk about two areas where processes and systems have major value: delivery and product creation. The guys use an analogy of Lego blocks and a menu of items to express the importance of organizing and creating templates for each product or service a business offers. They also discuss how using tools like Monday can help create templates for projects and increase efficiency and organization. Monday is a project management tool that allows businesses to create project templates that can be easily customized and duplicated. The guys emphasize that tools like Monday provide accountability for all team members and clients and ensure that everyone is on the same page. The guys stress the importance of creating a culture that makes data and metrics fun, so that team members are more likely to engage with them. They also discuss the importance of setting goals for the business and using processes and tools to achieve them. By setting goals, businesses can work backward to determine the processes and systems needed to achieve those goals. Finally, the guys discuss how to improve results and charge higher prices by improving processes. They suggest asking how to charge 10 times what a business is currently charging, which can help to identify areas where processes and systems can be improved. By improving processes and delivering better results, businesses can charge more for their products or services.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:07] Bob asks the guys how they’re doing, launching a discussion about their businesses and the economy in the new year. [5:08] Ken talks about how hard seasons in life and business are necessary in order to grow stronger. “Good times create weak people, weak people create bad times, bad times create strong people, strong people good times.” [6:48] Ken segues into this episode’s topic, processes. “It's always good, especially in these times to figure out how to optimize what you're doing. And if you can create less cost, and create more profit, then you have a better way of producing at a profit. And so that's why processes are important.” [7:32] Brad mentions a quote he’s heard recently that ties into his word for the year and how those things relate to processes. “If you don't know how to put what you're doing into a process, you don't know what you're doing.” [10:21] Bob talks about where to start when looking at how to create and define the sometimes overwhelming processes in your business. “One of the most simple things you can do to get started on this more process oriented and time and resource saving endeavor is to simply document how you do things.” [12:50] Brad discusses the importance of seeking an outside perspective and having one location where you can store every system and process each employee uses. [14:22] Ken talks about two areas where processes and systems have major value; delivery and the actual products. He uses a Lego analogy to express the importance of organizing and creating a template for each product or service you offer. “We want like Lego blocks, or a menu of actual items. And so we don't want to be making new Lego blocks.” [17:23] Brad dives into the specifics about how he and his business utilize his tool, Monday, to create templates for their projects and how it has increased efficiency and organization. “So what we do is we've started templates for our projects. We literally will just drag that project and start a brand new project. It automatically has all the hours for it, and we pretty much know what the cost is. You can tweak it, if there's some nuances and stuff. But then what happens is, the whole project is already set up all the timelines, all we do is we trigger it.” [21:52] Brad discusses how his tool, Monday, has really helped his business because, “it just gives accountability to your customers, it's really accountability for everybody, and clarity.” [24:30] Bob talks about the value and saved time that result from having templatized products. [31:13] Brad says, “you can't hit a target, and you can't see or you can't measure.” [32:35] Bob talks about the importance of creating a culture that makes the data and the metrics fun so that you are able to optimize the processes. “If you can create a culture, you not only make it better for the client and for yourself, and you are able to optimize, but you also catch things quicker.” [36:41] Brad talks about the importance of setting goals for your business and using processes and tools to achieve them. “Let's just dream a little bit? And let's just say we actually are able to meet this goal? How are we going to be able to handle these projects? When, you know, without? How do we do this? How do we manage? Efficient? How do we scale?” [39:51] Brad says that in order for your processes to be successful, you have to plan on them being used by the average person. “There's going to be superstars in your agency who can do projects quicker, get them up on their feet quick. But you have to plan for the average person and their speed.” [41:11] Ken wraps up by asking, “how can we charge 10 times that? Ask yourself that question because then it forces you to the next step to ask, how can we improve the result that it creates?”
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| 16 Dec 2022 | Ep 121: What is media trauma? | 00:52:15 | |
Subtitle: Media trauma. Sounds scary… but (our own) Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s new book, Our Digital Soul helps to, “guide you through the overwhelming maze of modern life to the life you really want, as it takes a hard look at the impacts of digital media and the trauma that results for all ages and every generation. Backed by research and experience, Black and Hutchins share their own personal journeys as well as those of their clients to explore a path where we can recover and thrive alongside our digital reality.” We dive deep on Bob’s new book, trauma bonds, technology, social media, small-t trauma, and more on this insightful episode.
Summary: What is media trauma? In order to understand what media trauma is, we first need to acknowledge that all technology is an extension of us. Because of this it impacts and changes who we are physiologically, psychologically, emotionally, and as a community. The magnitude of this impact is partially due to the imbalance of our brains and our technology. While our technology has continued to advance, our brains have stayed the same. This imbalance can lead to overwhelming amounts of small-t traumas. Small t-traumas are things such as a breakup, the death of a pet, losing a job, getting bullied, or being rejected by a friend group. These social small t-traumas happen even more online, that compound upon each other, causing media trauma. All trauma is created through trauma bonds and trauma bonds are defined as “emotional bonds with an individual that arise from a recurring cyclical pattern of abuse, perpetuated by intermittent reinforcement through rewards and punishment.” If we changed the word “individual” into “technology” would that statement not define our relationship with technology? In order to heal from media trauma, we must become aware of it, educate ourselves and others on the magnitude of media trauma, and begin to exercise self discipline. We will dive even further into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul in the next episode; you definitely won’t want to miss it! We also highly encourage you to check out their book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about what the guys have been up to recently. [5:47] Bob talks about his book that was just released, “Our digital soul: collective anxiety, media trauma and a path toward recovery”. [8:47] Bob begins a discussion about technology and its impact on society and says that, “good marketing is Psychology and math.” “it's getting people to respond and engage and then measuring and scaling it”. [16:06] Bob talks about the difference between video games and cell phone time/social media/work and how they impact your brain differently. [17:16] Bob breaks down how all technology is simply an extension of us as humans. “Every new technology is an extension of us. if you think of the wheel, it was an extension of our feet, right? We have to frame it that way, versus it's just a tool, and it's separate from me, no technology is ever separate from us…If it's an extension of us, then it fundamentally changes us. Physiologically, psychologically, and as communities… What is the computer and the cell phone an extension of? It's an extension of our brains. So what then is the internet? It's a further extension of our brains, and I would argue it's an extension of our nervous systems.” [21:57] Brad adds that it can often be very easy to be overwhelmed with the high amounts of information with emotional ties that enter our brain every day. [23:06] Bob talks about a quote from a biologist, EO Wilson, “the problem with humanity's we have Paleolithic brains, medieval institutions and godlike technology.”, adding that, “you can't plug a Paleolithic brain and expect it to keep up with godlike technology.” [24:25] Brad asks Bob if he believes that AI will be able to regulate the amount of information and stimulation we receive to healthier levels. [26:54] Bob defines media trauma, “small-t” traumas, and dives into some of the side effects (or “small-t’s”) of screen life. “We define media trauma as experiences through media, and personal devices that hinder or harm our capacity to be mentally whole.” [32:22] Ken discusses how according to Dr. Andrew Huberman, “the frequency of dopamine hits that we get daily is the number one societal problem because because they're their weight, they're way more frequent than they ever have been in history.” [34:29] Bob dives deep into an explanation of his and Jenny Black’s book, discussing how the internet compounds small-t traumas, three of the five symptoms that indicate that you have media trauma, and breaks down trauma bonds. “That's something called a trauma bond. Now I want to read the definition, and then I'm going to change one word. Trauma bonds are emotional bonds with an individual that arise from a recurring cyclical pattern of abuse, perpetuated by intermittent reinforcement through rewards and punishment. But let me change one word. Trauma bonds, or emotional bonds, with a device or a technology that arise from recurring cyclical patterns of abuse, perpetuated by inner intermittent reinforcement, through rewards and punishment.” [42:58] Ken asks whether we as a society can exercise our discipline muscle now that we know the true impact of technology on our lives. [44:36] Bob talks about the importance of self awareness, education, and collective intervention in order to, “retrofit this crazy godlike technology to our paleolithic brains.” [48:03] Ken asks what the audience should take away from this, and why should they read this book? [49:09] Bob says that, “mental health and wellness professionals. We want to get it in the hands of all of them. So hopefully it's accessible to everyone. But it is chock full of studies and data and information that could make an impact.” [49:58] Bob says that you can buy Our Digital Soul on amazon.com or at ourdigitalsoul.com. [50:29] Bob talks about some of the topics for the next episode. “What are some things that you can do to heal? What are you addicted to? One of the indicators is, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when you open your eyes in the morning you wake up?”
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| 11 Nov 2020 | Ep 46: How do you fire someone? | 00:52:17 | |
Summary: Today share their thoughts and pain points around letting people go. How do we keep kindness in mind when letting go of someone who isn’t meeting expectations? How soon should you fire someone when you feel that they’re not a good fit? When the time comes to have the difficult conversation, what does that conversation realistically look like? And how can you change your processes to create a deeper trust with your and avoid firing being a surprise all together? These are all the big questions we tackle today- stay tuned!
Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:03] Bob introduces this week’s episode- expressing that its a nerve-wracking one for him. [1:25] Brad shares a statistic, that 50% of business owners have to fire someone eventually. [1:47] Ken shares that he has had to fire people in the past, but that they try to avoid it at all costs. [2:14] Brad says that knowing when to let somebody go is one of the most challenging things you can deal with in business. [2:49] Brad continues, saying that layoffs or furloughs are a bit different because they are about a lack of business rather than the person individually. [3:40] Ken reflects on the way that you deliver the message, trying to find a way that will help the person as much as possible. [4:27] Brad pinpoints that the line is knowing when the employee is no longer helpful for the business. Many times they are like family, so it can be challenging to disconnect your emotions from the actual need in the business.
[6:10] Brad asks Ken about his firing experiences. [6:23] Ken: “Hire slow, fire fast.” It’s important to bring on the right people, and realize that those personalities really matter and have a large impact. One bad egg will spoil everything, so applying filters is very important to ensure a cultural fit.
[8:13] Ken “When we’ve had to fire people, we give them the benefit of the doubt over and over again.”
[11:42] Brad says that using a sort of checklist of “red flags” for when people aren’t living up to expectations or requirements will help you to use less emotion and more logic. [12:40] Brad shares that he wants to be kind to people, “Sometimes it’s a real struggle, and I have let things go on longer than they should have.” [13:30] Brad continues. “I try to figure out what is the core reason that I feel like this person isn’t working out and try to really identify those core reasons and then see if it can be resolved in meetings.”
[14:40] Bob shares his experience with firing- on both sides, as an employee and an employer. Asking yourself if the person is capable of fixing or changing issues is important, but placing a limit on your empathy is important as well. [15:21] Bob “I always have to ask the fundamental question, is this person capable of doing what you’re expecting of them?”
[16:01] Bob “I’ve let people stay on too long because I didn’t like the discomfort of my own emotions versus what was best for them and what was best for the company. So I was prioritizing my own comfort and my own discomfort rather than saying ‘What is best for this person.’”
[17:07] Bob “When something doesn’t work out, and you know it’s not going to work out, The person needs to be in a better fit... By not doing it, you’re holding back what’s best for that person.” [18:19] Ken talks about how he attempts to make sure that things aren’t a true surprise when you have to let someone go. “You can’t let your own desire for comfort or your fear of discomfort stop you from doing what’s best for everybody.” [19:49] Brad says that sometimes people are doing great and making money for the company, but are super disruptive to the culture or morale. And other times they just aren’t capable of doing the job. He talks about having benchmarks for signs that he needs to make a decision about someone’s employment.
[21:40] Brad says another thing he’s struggled with is, when you fire someone do you walk them out the door? How do you figure out the timing, etc? [22:30] Ken says that many mentors have suggested that when you let someone go, they go right then. No two weeks situation, etc. If they’re already not adding to the value of the business, there is no reason for them to have any motivation left once you give them a two weeks notice, etc. It’s best for you to just let them go right there. [23:13] Brad says that it’s especially difficult if the employee is a higher-level person who holds a lot of “keys” in the business- you need a time frame to get those keys handed over beforehand. [24:10] Ken shares that letting people go is never just a quick, straightforward process. You’ve got to create a “nice” transition for your employees and for the employee you’re letting go. Knowing what a transition looks like for any given role beforehand is super helpful. [25:27] Brad shares that he let someone go and had a client asking about the person two weeks later. The client was a bit incredulous, asking why they weren’t told and Brad reflects on that circumstance, saying that it’s important to create that line of communication with the clients as well. Your employees have built those relationships, and if one of those links in the relational change is suddenly gone, it can have potential to harm the client relationship. [27:00] Bob asks Brad about statistics- turnover within the agency world in particular. He asks if the creative aspect of things makes it more challenging to let someone go, because the reasons could be more nuanced instead of task-oriented. [29:19] Bob continues, that creatives can be some of the hardest people to let go because the opinions and reasons can be very subjective. [29:34] Ken agrees, saying that you have to own where those measurements are for yourself and your business. A startup vs a well-established business makes a big difference, as the needs can change as the company changes and grows. [30:31] Brad stresses the importance of processes, so that employees can understand what to do in order to grow. Having a system in place where coaching and processes to learn to grow is SO helpful- because if you don’t, you’re insisting that they go off and do those things themselves. Which ultimately will take away from the energy they have to offer your business.
[32:39] Ken talks about how there are roles that are really clear, and some that are more ambiguous. And so when someone new comes in, letting them know exactly what their roles will be and how to measure their success, that’s being proactive and helping you to avoid difficulties down the line. [33:55] Bob talks about studies in Europe that say that when you give an employee or a team the ability to craft their responsibility, they end up being much happier and have a sense of accomplishment. Rather than a list of responsibilities when you hire someone, give them a list and bullet points of what you need, and let them take part in figuring out how they can fill that need. [35:42] Brad talks about how his tendency towards passive-aggression means that he often feels quick to judge. [36:49] Brad continues, that if you start to notice yourself being critical of an employee, you need to dig deeper into that. “You should check yourself- you should say ‘Why am I critical? Is it a personality? Or am I not happy with their performance?” [37:56] Bob says that he tends towards cynicism, or flippant criticism and identifying the worst in the situation as a passive-aggressive move. [39:10] Brad talks about his fear with creatives, that if he lets someone go that the fire of creativity and passion will dim and make them think that this isn’t their career path, etc. Sometimes it’s just a matter of things not being a good fit, so it’s important to know where the line is between not being a good fit right now, versus just being a bad employee. [40:16] Ken “Obviously there’s a passion in each person, and there’s a purpose or many purposes in people. So helping them get to that is how you get to those places where at some point that person is going to be thriving. And how do you get there?” [41:00] Bob talks about our last guest speaker, a former employee of Brad who disappeared for a few years then came back with an incredible story and path that he’s created for himself. [42:06] Bob talks about seeing the true skill set and giftings in everyone, and trying to call those out in your employees. “...if it doesn’t work out, that’s okay. Give them the freedom to fly.”
[43:23] Bob: “You never will be, no matter how good you think you are, the provider and source of someone’s livelihood… on one level yes you write their paycheck, but at the end of the day the universe is very big, the people are very skilled, and they will land somewhere and they will be taken care of.” [44:10] Ken talks about leadership and seeking true wisdom, having the wisdom to know when someone is hanging around too long, if the expectations are too high on one end or the other. [45:17] Ken continues, saying that you have to be on a journey of leadership and seeking wisdom from mentors, because there is a lot hanging in the balance for a smaller company or startup especially.
[47:40] Bob talks about when the process of letting someone go is really draining or unhealthy for you mentally, and what it might look like if you remove yourself from that process altogether. [48:37] Ken mentions some great HR companies that can help you frame those conversations and lay out what it may look like to make a transition, and he has had great experiences with them.
[50:15] Ken says that ultimately, when you do this you have to do it in love. As cheesy as that sounds, ask yourself “How can I serve this person through this?” Serving people doesn’t always mean making them happy!
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| 01 Jul 2020 | Ep 27: Let’s Talk Contracts and Terms | 01:04:29 | |
Summary: Terms and contracts are overwhelming to begin with. No one wants pages of legal documents, but at the same time clear guidelines are essential to a successful and safe relationship. In some ways this can be the most intimidating part of business ownership, and it’s certainly one of the most important. There is a “traditional” route that advertising agencies have taken in the past, but it doesn’t always work. Most agencies have developed their own terms and contracts based on their unique experiences and services Today we are sharing some of the reasons for the parts included in our own contracts. Ultimately the goal is to build healthy, safe, and successful client relationships that create awesome, long-term business partnerships. From knowing when and how to charge for creative projects, to drawing boundaries for difficult personalities - this episode is packed full of seasoned advice based on our experiences.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:25] We discuss Ken’s pizza-making skills (or lack thereof)! While you can’t go wrong with the classic mozzarella and basil pizza, the newest fad at his house is a pizza with arugula on top- how do you like yours? [5:14] Bob introduces today’s topic- Contracts and Terms. [7:00] Ken asks Brad to talk about MSA’s or Masters Service Agreements. [7:30] Brad: Most people in agency business aren’t Masters of Marketing, they came into this business because of their passion for the product and process.
[10:51] Brad talks about a SOW- or statement of work- and what it looks like for his agency.
[12:20] Brad continues, often he feels that providing these two large documents can feel like you’re roping a client into some lengthy legal contract… but ultimately, his agency is a business that needs guardrails in order to run efficiently.
[13:08] Bob clarifies: “So all of those clauses and agreements, they come from experience.” [13:25] Ken affirms this, and encourages other small-medium sized agencies to put up those guardrails for themselves. A giant list of terms isn’t fun to dispense, but it’s necessary and also allows you to lean on character and relationship. [14:12] Brad speaks on the experience of seeing the best in people, hiring clients being a very personal relationship in his agency.
[15:55] Ken speaks on boundaries. They are healthy in every relationship, but especially with clients. Set up an agreement that allows you to handle any situation with any person, regardless of their personality type. Your agreement can also help to filter out people that are not right to work with. [17:26] Bob recalls the idea that you don’t know what you don’t know, so learning is inevitable. Because of this constant learning, there is an ongoing tendency to slowly increase the size of your MSA and SoW. There is incredible value in editing these documents every few years to make sure that every line is still applicable to your mission, vision, brand, and company. [19:35] Brad adds that every SoW that is signed also has a clause where the client agrees with the MSA. Other companies have separate agreements for different clients, either based on project or how much they are spending, and Brad is considering that for his agency. [20:28] Ken talks about how his agency Metacake rarely uses MSA’s. Typically is a SoW and contract. [20:50] Brad adds that some agencies even put their MSA on their website, so that there is no excuse that the client doesn't have access to it. [22:00] Brad shares some interesting experiences with clients in the past.
[25:03] Ken talks about the things that we have control over versus what we do not. “You can’t tie your success to things you don’t have 100% control over.” [26:03] Bob: “If it’s intense, it’s yours. Meaning if there is something that keeps making you angry, even if it’s something another person does that sets you off that creates conflict… it’s something that’s inside of you.”
[27:30] Ken: Often in the course of doing business, you come across people who are working with a great deal of pressure on them. Their intense reaction is theirs, not yours. [28:05] Bob dials it in- “If there is something that seems to be happening with a client or continuing to happen in your agency or with your team, it’s probably something you’ve got to fix internally.” [28:31] Brad says he tries not to talk badly about your clients, as that is a mindset that can fester and have certain poor results. ESPECIALLY as a leader, never talk badly about your clients! [37:30] Bob asks for 3 things an agency needs to cover in their agreement. [37:35] Brad: Scope Creep. Make sure your scope of work, timeline is reasonable and make sure your client agrees. There are changes, delays, etc and one month projects become three month projects. [38:27] Bob adds: Terms of payment- are terms of payment tied to milestones in the project or not? [38:52] Ken talks about taking monthly payments- this means there is no question of why money is being pulled, no misunderstandings of timeline. Time and cost are associated, but ultimately when you sign an agreement for scope, you’re agreeing to payment as well. De-coupling payment from milestones is an enormous thing to overcome.
[41:00] Brad adds: Limit your time based on creative. Somehow, put together a process within your agency- add benchmarks within every part of the project so that is things change later in the process, the client knows they have to pay for those changes. [43:30] Ken: “A lot of agencies just operate fluidly, organically… I would really encourage everyone to think through- what is the formula for success? It’s a process…. Business is systems and processes and people are just there to manage it.”
[46:55] Brad talks about how it may be helpful to write into an agreement that you will review the Statement of Work together again at certain points throughout the project, to maintain expectations.
[57:45] Ken: “I would say you constantly need to revisit it [your MSA], and it is always this balance between it being too much and just enough.”
[58:57] Ken adds another element that should be covered- protections against bad character.
[1:00:49] Brad encourages you to add terms as you deem them necessary and then simply see if clients will agree to sign- and if not, discuss and figure out how to change that language to something that clients are more comfortable with. [1:01:05] Ken: “The more terms there are, the less likely people are to read it… I want them to read everything.” So if you need to refine specifics and reiterate the important parts, do so! Make sure your terms are actually readable.
[1:02:25] Bob adds a final thought: “For a small or medium-sized agency, so much of this is born out of measurement of scope creep and cost. Many agencies may not have a process in place to know these things…” They won’t mind doing a bit of extra work here or there, extra hours or slightly extending the scope, etc.
[1:03:30] Ken mentions the next episode topic: How to measure profitability and what it looks like on a realistic basis.
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| 31 Dec 2019 | Ep 1: What’s Your Superpower? How to be seen as the BEST in your field. | 00:58:43 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott talk about their Marketing Superpowers in the very first episode of Agency Exposed! They share how they wound up in Nashville, discuss running your business based on your strengths and staying in your lane of expertise when it comes to working with new clients.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:20] - Brad Ayres shares about growing up in Detroit, what brought him to Nashville, and the origin of Anthem Republic.
[4:24] - Ken Ott tells us about his childhood in Queens and how the tough lessons he learned early on have informed the growth of Metacake and his passion for GROWTH in every aspect of life.
[12:00] - Bob Hutchins tells us about his early passion for technology, early days in Christian ministry and transition to entrepreneurship, moving to Nashville and 17+ years of agency experience. [15:20] - Question #1: What is your Superpower?
[17:30] - Ken loves GROWTH!
[20:07] Bob, Ken, & Brad talk about Transparency, Collaboration, and why entrepreneurs are drawn to the Greater Nashville area.
[23:07] Brad talks about The Active Antagonist
[23:34] Scarcity vs Abundance [24:56] Bob asks: How much does the local/regional culture impact your mindset & the way you do business in a connected, international world?
[33:21] How to say no when you feel out of your lane/expertise.
[39:00] Making yourself indispensable to your clients
[42:00] Is the customer "always right" in 2019? [44:20] In order to be the best at what you do, internal/business health comes first.
[52:29] The Guys wrap up by discussing strengths, weaknesses, and partnership.
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| 30 Jun 2021 | Ep 79: Increasing Project Capacity Without Adding More People | 00:41:44 | |
Summary: In this week’s episode, we dive into how to scale your agency without hiring. Although hiring team members is required, it’s not the most effective and healthy way to scale. To increase capacity and profit, you must innovate. Old, out-dated techniques are one part of the problem. A technique that can help you scale your agency in a profitable way is to create a culture that promotes efficiency in your current employees. Using tools and processes to track your agency’s profitability is also key. Two other elements that can assist you with scale are effective time management and traffic management. In order to serve your clients to the best of your ability, your agency must be healthy in all areas, especially as you scale.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:44] Ken opens this week’s episode by asking Brad about his biking adventures this week. [2:44] Ken begins a discussion about scale in agencies and asks, “Do you feel like you have a healthy capacity for the work that you do?” [4:41] Brad talks about the idea that, “your business is run by processes and people run the processes.” [5:12] Brad connects efficiency and streamlining your business to a cultural aspect of your agency. [7:11] Brad discusses how humanity wants to be seen as valuable and how that can be especially negative in the agency world. [8:51] Bob analyzes the difference between the nomadic society and today’s industrial society and contemplates what life could be like if we “could break out of that and go back to a simpler life and say, What is it that makes me the most productive, the most creative, the most I can serve my family, while at the same time being incredibly productive at the same time?” [11:24] Ken talks about how “there are situations we saw last year where we're stuck in a model that doesn't necessarily produce the best result.” [13:03] Bob discusses some important elements when scaling your agency. “At the end of the day, I think it's all about time management,” “having a Traffic Manager is really important, because then it releases the burden off the workers,” [14:35] Ken asks if there are any tools that the guys use to help manage and measure capacity. [15:51] Ken asks, “Does your sales team ask if we've got capacity for something?” [16:31] Ken talks about how hiring isn’t the only solution to the scaling problem. [19:00] Ken asks, “if you're hitting capacity, how do you expand what you can do with the same amount of people without sacrificing quality?” [21:03] Bob explains how he ranks his tasks according to their value and adjusts or changes the low value tasks that don’t push conversions. [23:02] Ken talks about two components that can create inefficiency in your agency and how to correct them. [26:22] Bob questions the belief that agencies have become more efficient and asks “have we really made ourselves better and more efficient? Or are we a slave to the process?” [27:58] Brad offers a few tips about building efficiency into the mindset of your employees and the culture of your agency. [32:05] Ken talks about the importance of regularly checking in on the agencies’ real profit. “One of the takeaways here is someone in the business, is looking at all the time, because it gets away from you so fast, especially the bigger you get” [33:14] Ken uses a travel analogy to point out that in order to serve your clients to the best of your ability, your agency must be healthy. [35:37] Bob discusses the importance of time management, universal time tracking across your agency, and someone who monitors the profitability of each project. [36:41] Ken summarizes the discussion about capacity tools. “you can't manage what you can't measure.” [37:55] Ken uses an analogy of the recipe for Coke to point out the importance of the successful formulas within your agency. “the value of your business is the formula of how you deliver the product you deliver.” “it wouldn't be coke. it'd be Pepsi.” [39:16] Ken concludes this episode by discussing the important balance of structure and efficiency. | |||
| 07 Apr 2021 | Ep 67: How to Prepare NOW for the Next Downturn | 00:50:50 | |
Disclaimer: In this episode we talk about our experience in reading the market and preparing. We talk about our interpretations of current conditions and what that means for our business, but this is not financial advice. Please consult your professional advisor before taking any actions based on what you hear.
Summary: In this week’s episode, we talk doom and gloom, and ode back to 2008 and 2020. Why? Because there’s extreme opportunity in downturns IF you are prepared for them. And when do you prepare for them? In the good times. Learn from the past to optimize the future. How has that past experience impacted the way we make decisions looking forward? In retrospect, were there signs of what was to come? What could you put into place NOW to preserve the value of your wealth? How can we prepare in a REAL way to gain ground when the next downturn comes?
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:07] Bob introduces today’s topic by talking about the stock market and how things are generally on the financial “up”. It’s a bull market right now, which is also a great time to prepare for the inevitable downturn in the future. Bob asks: If there was something drastic that could change the way we run our agencies tomorrow- what would that thing be? [5:09] Brad talks about how we are teetering on the edge of a bull market- and he’s still carrying scars from the financial crisis of 2008 that cut marketing budgets significantly. The situation we’re in now isn’t that drastic, more of a “frog-in-the-skillet” situation.
[5:43] Brad continues, saying that the bull market is a reflection of a stock market that only shows the short-term- it is based on key metrics that aren’t yet known. In 2020, we’ve printed more money than since 1980- the result is that we either increase taxes to pay for this inflation or we experience it directly. [7:34] Bob talks about how stimulus checks have encouraged some families to buy- which really is the purpose, to stimulate the economy. Brad agrees, saying it isn’t meant to be a savings plan for people but really just a band-aid on a larger problem. [9:13] Brad says of course there are people who really do need that extra $3,000, and there’s other people that are out shopping and “stimulating” the economy. “However they’re stimulating the economy and at the same time we’re devaluing the dollar.”
[11:13] Ken The change may not be sudden like in 2008. “It’s possible that everything that’s been happening in the last 12 months will create a gradual decline, and we might just start feeling it across the board in different ways.” [12:36] Brad shares his experience of the 2008 financial crisis and proceeding recession. Living in LA and being dependent on contract work meant he was primed to feel the impacts pretty immediately. The first sign was clients getting behind on their payments, and eventually he found himself a few months behind on income. [15:04] Brad continues, adding some advice to his past self “I didn’t prepare properly… I would say have a year’s worth of income.” He gives further explanation of the indicators to look for when preparing for the unknown.
[18:01] Ken had a different experience in 2008. He and his wife had just moved to Franklin and at the time he was a full-time contractor working in the digital advertising space. Although there was a general downturn at the time, being at the forefront of technology served him well and provided a nice cushion from the fallout. [20:38] Bob talks about positioning for the downturns- he says that just as Ken was in a good position for that situation, there are businesses that were prepared for the downturns that happened due to Covid. The lesson is that you can prosper and benefit in these times if you’re prepared. [21:27] Ken clarifies that he wasn’t in that situation on purpose- not back then. But now, it’s so important that as a business leader you become a sort of student of these financial indicators of what is happening. You always have to be positioned to think about what your business is becoming. [24:51] Brad says that if you can, try to have at least 12 months of capital to run your business. [25:58] Ken agrees, saying that moving towards 3 months in your bank account and the other 9 months somewhere else that you can access fairly quickly. You want low risk, as liquid as possible for your assets and savings in business. [27:54] Bob wants to unpack this concept, where to get 12 months of capital and how to get to that place. [28:18] Ken talks about the idea of profit first- Tony Robbins calls it a wealth tax. The concept is that because your business will use whatever you give it, giving yourself a wealth or profit tax every year that you then put into savings for yourself in the future. If the government raised tax rates you’d figure out a place to get that in your budget, so jump ahead and take it out first. [36:19] Brad talks about knowing how at-risk your industry is in terms of a downturn and how diversification plays into this risk. For example, Anthem’s clients during Covid were in healthcare technology, so they didn’t feel the effects as much as some of their other clientele. For Anthem, that diversification in clients made up for the potential for loss. [37:38] Ken “I think we have to put aside our assumption that things are going to be around…” Run scenarios where your industry specialization is suddenly gone, and you’re reliant on your other means of making money. [38:10] Brad and Ken talk about how these conversations can be depressing, but Bob highlights the difference. Talking about this and planning during the middle of a good time is different than during a bad time, because in a good time these conversations can be empowering. “It’s strategic, healthy, and helps your company to evolve and get stronger… in the middle of a bad time it’s too late and you’re scurrying.” [39:39] Ken mentions another simple recommendation to prepare for the worst right now- get your receivables in order! Digital payments from clients instead of billing and physical checks. Now is a perfect time to have that conversation with clients, because it is physically more difficult to accept checks- and one of the first signs of the 2008 financial crisis from Brad was unpaid invoices. [42:03] Bob talks about making even larger investments as a business when things are good- at a previous agency they invested in the residential units above their office space to help cover the mortgage. “It’s opportunities like that, when things are good to say, what’s my biggest cost center right now that I’m throwing money down a hole? How can I turn that into some sort of investment vehicle?” [45:13] Bob and Brad discuss the other signs that there is a bubble soon to pop- the real estate market is an obvious example. In place like Nashville, homes have nearly tripled in value in less than 20 years- but income hasn’t kept up. [47:32] Brad says that it takes a lot of self-discipline to buy when things are down, to position yourself to be able to take advantage of those opportunities when they arise. | |||
| 17 Feb 2021 | Ep 60: The Platform vs The People (Pt 2)... How to Become Unstoppable | 00:57:47 | |
Summary: We’re back this week with part two of our discussion on “The Platforms vs. The People.” As agency owners, what changes should we make to protect our clients and ourselves from the whims of mega platforms? The key to becoming unstoppable may lie in having a healthy approach to creativity and innovation. Using platforms in your business isn’t bad, it’s GREAT, but you must be aware of your vulnerabilities. Sadly, most businesses have no idea how vulnerable they are. We talk often about the importance of diversification, but today we’re diving deep into the mindset behind change—including what it may mean if you’re resistant to change, and what a healthy experimental mindset could look like for your agency. We’ll tackle questions such as:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
Resources Mentioned:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] The Guys introduce today’s episode, welcoming Ken back from a trip to New York! [3:26] Brad reviews last week’s episode, talking about the continual changes surrounding platform shifts. His company experienced having one of their client’s Facebook ad accounts shut down, saying that ultimately Facebook admitted it was an accident. They have no real recourse. [4:49] Ken says that he sees connection between cryptocurrency awareness increasing and platforms being questioned and challenged.
[8:25] Ken shares his fears with businesses that he sees. If big platforms like Shopify and Facebook ban you for one reason or another, you really don’t stand a chance. [9:27] Brad talks about his fears with so many parts of his business that are reliant on the Big Three: Amazon, Facebook, and Google. When we sign terms of service with these corporations and websites, we are allowing them to have the power over many parts of our lives. [10:55] Brad talks about the biggest challenge he sees: these platforms only have the power that they have because people are using it. If they get into a position where people begin to fall off, these large corporations begin to do pretty wild things to keep their shareholders happy. [12:32] Bob says that many agencies are ahead of the curve as far as technology, but as those same services become commoditized, the value of an agency’s services decrease. Then what follows is people looking for other options. [15:43] Ken adds that this cycle is what is currently happening—a principle of cyclical nature that makes itself evident everywhere in life. The pattern of developing new technology then purging to make room for advances is part of that cycle. [17:33] Ken says that cryptocurrency for investment is yet another example of diversification [18:15] Brad says that he's seen the industry go through phases. Today, we are technologists. Most of the work that we’re doing is IT, learning technical systems to get the best result. Having that technical background is incredibly valuable now, but he predicts that eventually AI will take over. [20:48] Brad asks: “How can we prepare for this?” He suggests going to clients and ensuring you have a seat at the table. To do this, make sure you’re doing more than technical commodity work and that you’re helping lead strategy. [22:26] Bob talks about his love/hate relationship with technology and clients. He always advises his clients to not become hung up on technology, because it comes and goes. Instead, he says that we should focus on human stories, human connection, and human ideas. [25:51] Ken says that one of his biggest business strategies is to not attach yourself to a technology or platform that will come and go. [27:41] Ken talks about the challenge of major platforms that can shut you down. Those platforms have gotten into their position because the platforms have the most users as well as the most convenience to offer. There is less perceived competition in comparison. [28:58] Ken predicts that businesses will be forced to become more self-reliant and be more aware of what could go wrong. [30:50] Bob talks about how a lot of clients are hiring them for vision and understanding of where the industry is going. [32:20] Ken says that although these platforms can be great and hugely helpful, there is a tipping point between what is best for their customers and what is best for their shareholders. It’s inevitable, and so it’s a great idea to have a backup plan and/or a fallback. For example, if you rely on Shopify, consider hosting your own site instead. [35:05] Brad talks about how the power to challenge these businesses is truly available to the people—Reddit and Robinhood are a further example of this relationship.
[37:35] Bob says that the challenge for him is learning how to think, and then applying those strategies so that you don’t succumb to the power of the platforms. He suggests a book called Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant. He’s an organizational psychologist who helps businesses figure out how to think about their brand and long-term goals.
[41:41] Bob says that when we stop thinking like scientists as business owners, we lose the willingness to experiment, to admit being wrong, and we will find it more difficult to move towards growth and do what’s best for our customers. [42:26] Ken wonders what the switch is that moves business owners from that role of scientist more towards a preacher. What makes them begin to believe that they have everything figured out? Often it’s simply success. When you become successful, it’s easy to stop innovating and say you have things figured out. [43:52] Brad asks Bob and Ken if their clients understand that some experimentation with failure is part of the process of finding success. Are they open to this? [45:00] Ken says that there is a lot of resistance to that mindset, and a lot of things can play into that resistance. It can be hard to rationalize experimentation within an organization that is larger or older, and there is an addiction to immediate ROI that needs to be broken. It’s pretty rare that a client comes forward and says that they want to experiment and be intentional about it. [47:45] Bob says that we could be seeing a renaissance of agency creativity and agency values. He also suggests a couple of methods for playing against that resistance that many clients will have against experimentation.
[51:01] Ken reflects on Bob’s advice. He says that in real life, you have things like fire drills where you go through the worst case scenario and decide what your plan of action will be. In business, people aren't doing that as much.
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| 12 Feb 2020 | Ep 7: Selling an Agency, Behind the Curtain with Hannah Paramore Breen | 01:11:49 | |
Summary: There are only 2 ways to gain wisdom: 1) learn from your own experiences and failures or 2) learn from the experiences of others. In this episode we discuss the reality of building and selling an agency with Hannah Paramore Breen, founder of Paramore Digital and author of Business Ownership- The Joy, The Pain, The Truth: A Survival Guide. This is a topic on the mind of any business leader. It’s something that’s often idealized, but rarely understood.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Hannah Paramore Breen: Former CEO of Paramore Digital, a digital agency she ran from 2002- 2016. Through the years she navigated the world of business ownership- including the highs and lows that inspire you to achieve and make you want to quit. Fast Company, Business Insider, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg business week, and the New York Times have all profiled Hannah’s candid, no-nonsense style and approach to leadership and the daily struggles that come with owning a high growth digital agency. She also has a 12.3 handicap on the golf course!
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:38] Bob asks Hannah: What was the motivation behind writing your new book?
[5:00] Hannah: “I feel like I have something to say, particularly to business owners who want to know what to do with what they’ve built, because that was my big question the last three years or so… have I become the limiting factor to the company?” [7:33] Bob asks Hannah to speak on business being “a process of continual shedding”
[10:05] Bob asks: “In your book you discuss trying to find your #2 within the first 5 years- is that what you’re talking about here?”
[13:00] Ken asks: “Where did you go outside of your company, or could you go anywhere to find those peers?”
[14:35] Bob asks: “Being early in the digital agency space and seeing this whole world transform and being a part of it- What was it like engaging and interacting with generational differences?”
[15:42] Hannah: “You begin to not trust your staff because you know that at that age, you’re a pit stop on their way to somewhere else and turnover is very hard on project work.” [15:50] Ken asks: “It seems more often than not in the agency world or even maybe other service businesses as well… you might end up in business without wanting to be in business, is that right? And so you don’t have that ‘thing’ that pulls you through.” [16:41] Hannah: “Exactly… people get into marketing or creative jobs because it seems like fun… a good place to start… and I do think in the agency world you have a lot more turnover. And the thing is… clients expect it.”
[18:35] Ken asks Hannah why she chose to start an agency [18:52] Hannah: “I was a classical piano major in college. My dad was a preacher, and my mother was a housewife… I didn’t have any kind of career aspirations… I was just on the borderline when women took off in the 70’s… some things happened that sent me off on a different path. I worked a lot of soul-sucking jobs in my career… so I’ve never had a business class or a marketing course in my life.”
[20:36] “I loved that job and that job changed my life. And it was so early in the industry that you were just learning on warp speed every single day.”
[22:35] Ken: “So would you say, the reason you got into your agency was because of the excitement and the freedom?”
[23:30] “The core values of my company that I eventually wrote like three years in, they reflected so much of frustration from the industry.”
[25:00] “So I hired a project manager, and then I hired a developer, and I needed two, and then it’s over. Then you have a company.” [28:30] Bob asks: “What was it like being a woman-owned digital agency starting back then?”
[31:00] Ken asks about the process of actually selling her business. “So from the outside, you start a business, you grow it to $5, $6 million, which is awesome. And you sell it. That looks awesome and exciting- and I guess a lot of people would idealize that. But talk about some of the ups and down in that?”
[32:30] Ken and Bob ask where that lack of belief came from.
[34:15] Bob: “Was that something that kept you up at night? Like… this is either a home run or it’s going to fall flat.”
[36:00] “You spend months going down that road to sell, which means that you are choosing to not engage in business development like you normally would… so your business development pipeline starts to dry up… everything makes you angry, you’re emotionally wrung out… it’s not fun anymore… If you have a vision for something else, if you have the opportunity to sell your business and make good money and good multiple on your business… it takes serious consideration at least.... Because there are very few times in your life that you have the opportunity to do a deal of that size… and in the kind of industry which changes so rapidly, your skillset can be antiquated.”
[38:14] Brad asks about the relationship with her staff and what their response was to her.
[43:00] Ken asks Hannah: “Are there any things you would do differently? What are the top 3?”
[45:51] Ken reiterates 2 awesome points: “Number one, make sure you’re enjoying what you’re doing… we spend more than half our lives in business, so it has to be something you enjoy… And number two… you’ve got to build it so that it’s a smart business. It creates a profit. It’s built assets… so that ultimately, like you said, it can not only fulfill your destiny where you need to be but also everyone who works for you… this business has to be on the rails.” [46:41] Hannah: “A lot of time the right reason for making decisions is a financial reason. The company needs to make profit.”
[48:00] Bob asks: What one thing could 60 year old Hannah tell 42 year old Hannah?
[51:23] Bob asks: “What are the things you see… starting new digital agencies these days. What are some things that you’re seeing and want to advise them about?” [52:02] Hannah: “The lack of business acumen… there’s no way in life that a 20 something year old is right around a business… young owners are too altruistic by nature and aren’t ready to navigate the waters you get into when you start doing real business… Lean into humility.” [54:00] Ken mentions mentoring as a way to open yourself up to be the shortcut for new people in the industry.
[55:43] Hannah: “I’d love for my legacy to be to change the relationships between business owners so that we have a much more collaborative culture.” [56:07] Bob adds: “That’s our dream. And I think… you’ve got to get beyond the business principles and you’ve got to be willing to and be vulnerable into the personal, the psychological, the emotional, because that is the emotional intelligence around business ownership.” [1:06:55] Hannah: “... a strong spiritual foundation for me is a reason outside of what we see every day… we’re supposed to leave the world a better place. Accepting that you’re not going to have perfect balance in your life every day is a process… so you have to let go of your own expectations of what your life is supposed to be like and reframe that for yourself.”
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| 18 Nov 2022 | Ep 120: How to close more business | 00:49:44 | |
Subtitle: The goal of all businesses is to make profit, and that’s only possible if you’re able to consistently close business at a profitable rate. So the question is, how do you close more contracts? In today’s episode, we break down the process of funneling clients, and some key steps to produce the most success and increase your close rate. We talk about investing, communication, Mark Cuban, money, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: On today’s episode we explore strategies to close more business. In order to figure out how to increase your closing rate, first you have to analyze how you get clients there and how your funnel works. Once you’ve identified the steps and processes your business uses to close contracts and work with clients, then you can work on improving your processes and systems. In the inquiry phase, the top of the funnel, we’ve learned through our experience that asking questions is key to moving forward with clients. Some of the most helpful questions that you can ask are “Why now?, Why us?, and What would a successful project or result look like for you?”. These questions can help you identify the timeline, scope, and budget of the project as well as set clear expectations. We’ve also learned that having the client make a small investment with your business is key. This investment should ultimately leave them with a high amount of valuable information about their company and what all needs to be done to reach their goals for the project. This can help eliminate competition and give you a real sense of the project as well as give the client confidence to move forward with the project. The key in all of these things is communication. Oftentimes in life, people are disappointed because of unrealistic or unmet expectations. In order to prevent this disappointment and conflict, communication is vital. Be honest with what your company needs to uphold your standards of work as well as who you are and what you are able to do. It all boils down to money and if they feel like they are receiving a high quality product. In the end, money isn’t what we care about, it’s what that money can buy or do for us.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:47] Ken open’s this week’s episode by wishing Bob a happy birthday. [3:31] Ken begins a discussion about this week’s topic, sales, and how to improve your closing rate. “What are the logical stages that we go through that we want to track step to step?” [4:36] Ken begins to break down the stages that his business, Metacake, goes through, starting at the beginning with initial inquiry. “We have some sort of initial call where we qualify them.” [5:05] Ken discusses the three main questions he asks during the initial inquiry and how it helps him to understand the company and the potential project. “Why now? Why us? What would the things be that make it a win?” [10:43] Bob talks about the importance of managing expectations. [14:07] Ken discusses the three main factors of a project and talks about a key psychology tactic that has helped his business boost their closing percentage. “In our philosophy there are like three factors to a project. They’re timeline, scope, and budget we've adjusted our pipeline a little bit, and one of the things that has helped us close the most is like putting into place some sort of small, very low cost, essentially strategy product that allows the clients to test the waters with you at very low cost.” [20:07] Ken says that inserting this step, “develops trust, which builds in ownership to the solution. Also you kind of eliminate competition most of the time.” [28:20] Ken talks about his goal with this product was to create a clear deliverable product that benefits the client, impresses them, and allows them to see what they actually need and how his business can deliver. [32:00] Ken discusses how helping the client visualize the solution to their problem has a magical effect; it helps them feel confident moving forward. [34:25] Ken talks about how often price is thought of as equal to quality (higher price means higher quality), and because of this assumption, many people are willing to and even happy to pay a higher price. He also adds that, “no one really cares about money. We think we do, but we really care about the results of the money.” [38:02] Brad makes the point that he and his team feel more at peace about certain projects when they know that they’re being paid enough to uphold their high standard. “We're happier internally when we know we have enough.” [39:50] Ken adds on and says, “for projects where we haven't gotten paid enough, no one's happy.” [42:11] Brad analyzes the common belief that abundance means overpaid and how that isn’t true. “Abundance is enough.” [43:30] Bob talks about a way to communicate your financial needs in a way that is about serving the client and upholding the company’s standard. [46:44] Brad closes by talking about Mark Cuban and his pharmaceutical business and how, “Mark knows his lane. He knows exactly what that business is going to be. The key is to communicate to your potential client, this is who we are.” | |||
| 22 Sep 2021 | Ep 88: How do you create predictable revenue? | 00:42:24 | |
Summary: In today's episode, we break down some of the ways that we maintain predictable revenue. Retainers can be used by any agency to keep their income consistent. But they bring other potential issues. It’s also important to invest in a great team that consistently does great work. This is a simple yet effective way to increase returning clients and has the potential to increase your revenue. “Your journey towards predictable revenue is never over.” -Ancient Agency Exposed Proverb
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:26] Brad open’s today’s episode by discussing this week’s topic. He asks, “How do you stabilize your revenues so that there's some consistency, over a longer period of time?” [2:18] Ken asks about the seasonality of Brad and Bob’s agencies. [3:09] Brad talks about how although some months are lower than others, it has become more predictable. [3:51] Ken says that as an agency, “you should never accept seasonality.” [4:43] Bob mentions the role outgo plays when an agency is stabilizing their income. He also says that “the way that you engage customers and clients has a lot to do with the stability of your income.” [9:52] Brad talks about the challenges of not having retainers. [11:15] Ken mentions the importance of having foresight when trying to stabilize your income. [11:53] Ken talks about how oftentimes with seasonality, it can be feast or famine. [13:31] Ken discusses how, “it's a challenge to not get into a scarcity mindset.” [14:40] Bob talks about how investing in excellent people and doing excellent work can help stabilize your income. [17:42] Bob begins a discussion that unpacks the various meanings of retainers [20:04] Ken talks about how his agency uses different retainers and some potential incentives to help convince clients that a retainer is in their best interest. [22:34] Bob mentions his agency’s use of retainers and some of the methods they use. [24:26] Brad discusses the way his agency uses retainers and points out that even retainers are flexible and can change. “if we didn't have 50% of our billings being retainers, it would be a lot more difficult to manage our cash and understand what's coming in.” [27:16] Bob asks, “What are other ways that you can stabilize your income?” [33:17] Brad talks about how, “as agencies, we don't plan out our customer business correctly.” [34:09] Bob tells a story about how he used a client’s desire to move funding from his agency to work with another agency as an opportunity to suggest other ways his agency could help them. “there's always an opportunity, there's always something you can do for that customer” [36:42] Brad talks about how seasonality can make you feel like, “we're either hustling or double hustling.” [37:34] Ken discusses how even during a lower season, agencies should always have something to do that either brings in other sources of income or invests back into the agency. “there's always something to do. The challenge is, is does that something create revenue right now or in the future?” [38:45] Ken wraps up by talking about the scarcity mindset and the challenges of trying to get out of it. “the leader needs to have a mindset of balance and stability.” | |||
| 30 Dec 2020 | Ep 53: What did we learn this year? [2020 Year-End Special] | 00:51:49 | |
Summary: Today we’re looking back on the entire year, reflecting on the themes we chose at the beginning of 2020 before we knew anything about lockdowns and pandemics. We are reflecting on how those themes have played out for each of us this year- even if not in the way that we thought they would. We talk about our journeys through the challenging landscape that Covid-19 has created, and how we plan to approach 2021 through a different lens. Having a spirit of gratitude, a realistic awareness of your privilege, and pure intentions for your business and your customers is a great place to start. We discuss the ways we plan to stay plugged into these new perspectives and how we can move into 2021 with confidence and- dare we say- optimism!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:51] Bob recalls one of the first episodes from this year, where The Guys discussed what their Word for 2020 would be. This was pre- Coronavirus and pre- Shutdown. [2:39] Brad’s word was Clarity. “Covid hit and it just kind of naturally cleared those things up… I got clarity because of Covid in a weird way.” It brought perspective.
[5:20] Ken talks about his word for 2020- Go. Metacake’s phrase for 2020 was “Go Public with Purpose, even when it’s Hard.” This has been more true this year than expected.
[9:26] Bob’s words for 2020 were “Transformation” and “Leap”- change typically means something different, but transform means the core stays the same and morphs into something new and different and hopefully better. [11:30] Bob talks about “Leap”-ing to a better position in 2020. He’s with a new agency in a new role, and lots of personal changes have been pleasantly transformational and led to making leaps into a new phase of his life. [12:50] Brad shares about his feeling of heaviness and mourning this year, how he’s taken a lot of it on and it’s been a process to allow himself to mourn the changes that have occurred globally. His business has done well, but there is a bit of guilt that tinges the sweetness of that result. [15:01] Bob talks about the reality of the year- that The Guys may be doing well but that a LOT of people haven’t had it good this year at all. We’ve all experienced that suffering in our lives, and it’s important to keep that in mind and be aware of your position of success. [16:04] Ken says that picking a word or intention for the year is more of a strategic move than anything- it will help you to focus and use as a reference point for the difficulties that are bound to come. [17:04] Bob talks about a study done by Harvard Business school- those who write down their goals and intentions over their career (30-40 years) are able to trace their success back through those writings. Being intentional about your goals is not just a hokey suggestion- it is backed by real science and proven by success in the business world! [18:03] Ken asks “Would you take 2020 back if you could?” [18:22] Brad and Bob both say absolutely not! Brad adds that the learning he’s done this year has grown him in ways that he never would have grown otherwise. He learned things about himself in Quarantine alone that he would never trade- “I think we’ve all been pushed to the point where you kind of get to understand who you really are and what the inner priorities in your life are.” [20:26] Brad talks pent-up energy in 2020 that is going to burst forward in 2021. Ecommerce alone has changed so much, faster than it would have otherwise. And that has lead to innovation and growth in entirely new ways. [22:04] Ken talks about the difficulty breeding growth for him personally and how it forced him to grow in a lot of ways. He talks about having permission to remove himself from the mundane routine that he had gotten used to- this year gave him permission to get out of that routine. [24:29] Bob talks about how this disruption has been great for humanity in general- historically, there is something in every generation that causes a reset in priorities and increased resiliency. This will be studied for years to come due to the technology and how massively things have shifted. [26:31] Ken isolates the difference between a good leader and someone who maybe doesn’t accomplish as much as a leader- good leaders look at how we’re going to transform instead of just complaining about how bad things are. “At some point, you have to put that behind you.” [26:50] Brad talks about how fortunate America is as a whole, our economy was strong at the beginning of this. So even though every business essentially shut down for a while, our stock market kept momentum and some financial excitement was created.
[29:21] Ken suggests creating things that will be reminders going forward- things like keeping a journal solely for the purpose of recording your learnings. It helps you stay reminded of what you’ve learned and how far you’ve come, the lessons you’ve learned along the way and the mistakes you made that taught you these things. [32:10] Brad shares that he did keep a journal while he had Covid, purely to keep track of his experience for future children or grandchildren, etc. Over time the stories will likely be embellished, etc so it’s nice to have a real documentation of what it was like for him. [33:08] Brad wants to carve out more time for himself to be Quiet. [33:49] Bob talks meditation, breathing, and prayer. 2020 has given him more time and space to do this for himself, and it’s been enormously powerful and transformative. [34:41] Brad worked on cultivating quietness for himself- 20 minutes of silence is difficult! It’s not just clearing out your thoughts, but also your emotions. [36:29] Ken says that especially in the agency world- having boundaries and barriers with clients can be so challenging. Making time for yourself and protecting that time is enormously valuable. Ken also starts the year off with a fast to clear his mind and emotions. [37:44] Bob talks about how these efforts at quieting your mind and emotions helps you to realize how truly out of control your are of your life and the events that take place- you don’t realize how little control you have of your thoughts. [38:30] Bob continues: “I need to get back in control and centered of my own life… if I can’t do that for myself, I think I’m walking around unconsciously asleep, being controlled by my own money mind in my business with my family and my relationships… it’s really just releasing that.” [38:55] Brad “When you start doing that, you really think of yourself as a prisoner to some degree of our society, of time, of stuff, of demands, of noises…” The amount of interruption we have in our life is truly incredible! Awareness of this is SO important. [39:32] Ken “If you’re not aware of it already, you’re just a slave to it.” [40:58] Bob talks about a phrase coined by a local therapist Jenny Black. The phrase “Media Trauma” is a very real thing- trauma from the internet is very real and important to acknowledge.
[43:32] Brad suggests that there will be trends towards getting off social media for periods of time- it tends to numb us and eventually social media devalues itself. He asks- what would happen if there was a worldwide trend to give up social media to the point that digital agencies are now feeling the hit of that drawback. [44:23] Ken says Metacake has had these discussions a lot but never on the podcast- digital marketing is changing and there will be some mass disruption inside of it eventually. Truly, the platform shouldn’t matter.
[45:39] Brad asks for any predictions in 2021. [45:51] Bob says that we will feel the fallout from 2020, that things will be better than 2020 but the true aftermath of Covid-19 hasn’t revealed itself yet. [46:56] Ken says that the opportunity that has been created is the most exciting thing for him- there will be even more opportunity in 2021. [47:43] Brad predicts 2021 as the year of Bitcoin. [48:25] Ken circles back around to the future of agencies in 2021- the position we see our businesses and how marketing fits into that. | |||
| 30 Sep 2021 | Ep 89: Smart glasses, magazine ads and secret Facebook targeting | 00:40:10 | |
Summary: In today's episode we talk about a variety of topics, but focus on three main ideas. The first is to never place your business solely on a platform that you don’t control. It leaves you subject to the whims of the company that owns the platform. This is a hard lesson to learn, but luckily there are some tricks. Because of the recent improvements made to preserve privacy, targeted marketing has recently been severely restricted by Facebook. Second, is to find some alternative Facebook targeting. We also talk about how the marketing circle is rotating back to TV and magazine ads also because of privacy concerns. Maybe you should be transitioning your strategy.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:49] Brad open’s this week’s episode by talking about Detroit’s annual electronic music festival and Houdini. [5:13] Brad talks about his recent, frustrating experience with Facebook. “You can't rely on Facebook anymore.” [10:56] Bob gives some secret Facebook marketing hacks. [14:54] Bob offers some suggestions to help with getting leads in the midst of Facebook’s limited targeting options. [16:09] Bob talks about how optimizing your site can help Google “like it”, which will also help with clients, rankings, and traffic. He also asks, “Have you guys ever used any content discovery ads, like Taboola or Outbrain?” [16:52] Ken answers Bob’s question and offers some alternative, more effective solutions than content discovery ads. “I would suggest… serve ads for content, on Facebook. If you've got great content, do “dollar a day” Facebook ads. That has proven to be much more effective than those content ads.” [19:51] Ken talks about how he thinks the marketing circle is coming back around to tv and magazine ads because of privacy. [20:53] Ken asks about trade shows, opening a discussion about that industry and its evolution over the past 2 years. [24:13] Bob discusses his zoom fatigue article and ties it into the discussion about trade shows. [29:35] Bob begins a discussion about Facebook’s smart glasses, along with their competitors and the smart glasses market. [33:15] Brad considers an alternate universe where Elon Musk has created smart glasses and how there is a potential for smart glasses to help disabled people. | |||
| 27 May 2020 | Ep 22: How do you stay in an Abundance Mindset during a Recession? | 00:56:20 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we are digging deep into the idea of maintaining a mindset of abundance when scarcity is all around. Ecommerce is growing steadily every day, products are being sold online at faster rates than ever before. Online sales alone are up 150% - that’s 10 years of growth in just under three months, yet still for most businesses and agencies these times are very difficult. The even harder part is, a scarcity mindset is essentially a slow death and you need to avoid it at all costs. In order to win new business you must be in a winning, abundance mindset. The TRUTH is, clients have more of a need for experienced agencies and specialists than ever. It’s simple - a more complex landscape means expertise is more important. There are actually more opportunities than ever before, but unlocking them isn’t easy and requires changing our thinking. How do you know how to adjust your services for the new normal? How do you convince an uncertain prospect to start a project? Where is the line between “just enough” and “too much” transparency with your team? All of these things are issues that agencies need to wrestle with to survive and grow in the new future, and it starts with the right mindset. Today we dive into how we are dealing with these issues in our businesses. So let’s dive in!
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:15] Bob introduces our episode, speaking about the current state of ecommerce, asking Ken what his perspective is from Metacake as an ecommerce-exclusive business. [3:31] Ken: “Ecommerce is sustaining a ton of businesses, and we’re in that industry. The industry is up tremendously… but we still have the same challenges, we’re no different from what others are going through… You’d think business would be through the roof… certain areas are doing really really well, others are struggling.” [4:56] Ken: “The ability to take action is still very hesitant.” [5:05] Brad says he’d be interested in seeing numbers on the companies that have gone online in the last couple months. [5:38] Bob speaks about the forced habits that people have acquired. “No matter how old you are… there’s a good chance that twice as many people in the country are ordering online now, and they’ve been doing it for two months.”
[6:38] Ken speaks to the change in other industries. Brad works with clients in the education space, and those companies have had to change faster than ever before. Where they were hesitant to go online, now it’s a necessity, so change has happened quickly. [7:00] Brad: “For a lot of companies, going online is all or nothing. They have no other choice but to… create online value… That can be challenging.” [7:32] Bob speaks to the importance of value now- being forced to do the same business online and being forced to create the same value and results is a challenge. [8:08] Bob asks about some guidelines to follow to prevent lowering our standards or settling for less. Taking a client that wouldn’t be a great relationship because you need the cash influx, etc. He asks what some of those “fine lines” have been for Ken and Brad, and whether they’ve been tempted to cut those corners. [9:17] Ken responds, speaking about the broader implications of disruption on a large scale. The Metacake team did a lot of talking about the psychology around that and figuring out how to position themselves for not only survival but success. [10:25] Ken speaks about the idea that as you specialize and hone in on what you’re good at, the opportunity for what you can receive gets smaller and smaller. This is healthy, and it’s important to not lose that in adjusting for disruption. [11:21] Guideline 1 from Ken: Do not lose money! Don’t take clients/deals that will result in loss of money, regardless of where you’ve been in the past.
[12:34] Brad speaks about assessing risk. Sometimes clients are more willing to take a bit of a risk and will work with you based on your past work.
[16:20] Brad gives Ken a “for instance” situation. If a client asking for a project right away that was out of the wheelhouse of Metacake’s specialty, but there was a promise of work 6 months from now that is exactly what Metacake does, would you take the work or not? Would that have been different 6 months ago before this happened? [17:00] Ken says they would take it! “If what the client needs is package design through the lens of an experienced ecommerce direct-to-consumer strategy, and we have the skillset to do that, then we would do that.”
[19:10] Ken continues by saying that if a client comes through asking for something that is totally out of Metacake’s wheelhouse, if they don’t think they can truly achieve the end result they would say no.
[21:22] Bob talks about something Ken said in the early episodes of the podcast, that it’s helpful to see challenges as happening “for” you instead of “to” you. That perspective shift is invaluable and SO necessary during this time.
[22:12] Brad talks about a client that is an event planning company. They have had to pivot to becoming an online event company, and now Brad and his team have become very familiar with that and their skillsets have expanded. [23:05] Ken speaks on the difference between forcing something to work versus there being a need where you’re rising to the occasion and fill it because you should. [25:00] Ken talks about how “contactless delivery” is changing the landscape of business. Local pickup options are becoming more and more popular, as the need increases the processes will become perfected.
[26:50] Brad talks about local mom and pop stores in Franklin, TN that have a seamless online delivery/curbside pickup option. “If that service had been available last year, they would have dominated the market.” [27:33] Ken mentions Chick-fil-A and the system for curbside pickup that they developed before the giant disruption from Covid-19.
[29:40] Ken talks about the buildup and preparation that Metacake has done previous to this disruption, and how efforts to diversify internally have paid off now.
[31:20] Brad: If you do decide to take on business that you haven’t necessarily done before, how do you talk to your team about it to get them to see the vision and not get nervous about something they haven’t done before? [31:45] Bob speaks about how you have to cast the vision wholeheartedly- if you don’t believe it, they won’t believe it. [34:01] Brad asks about drawing boundaries between yourself and your employees, how much transparency is too much transparency. Ex: Telling them that if you don’t do well with a particular client, the company will go under.
[36:48] Ken: “The more information good people have, the better they can solve problems.” [37:12] Brad speaks about how times of perceived failure are when he has grown the most and learned the most. Taking on risk may not go as well as you’d like, but be cognizant of what you’ve learned and that is sometimes more valuable than the money. [38:00] Bob talks about looking at things with an abundance mindset versus a scarcity mindset. We have seen directly what happens when a scarcity mindset takes hold.
[40:20] Brad talks about true uncertainty, truly not knowing what choice to make. Often this means making the best of the wrong choice. You have to learn to trust yourself and look at your true track record, accounting for what you’ve learned from mistakes.
[42:30] Ken urges against “following the herd.” If you’re always following the herd, you’re always behind someone else or behind where you need to be to truly be a leader. You’re always stuck asking why you can’t see out ahead of where you’re at.
[44:35] Bob talks about how this is a time for thinking about things that you may have been too fearful to truly assess before. Things like overhead via an office space, working from home, scaling back to smaller versions of what worked before.
[46:00] Brad: “Sometimes the easiest way to make revenue is to cut expenses.” Basic but also necessary. [47:15] Bob asks: “What’s the biggest pivot or change that you’re seeing with some of your clients? Are you seeing your long-term clients making massive changes or are they fearful and inching ahead?” [47:45] Ken speaks on the fear-based mentality that is pervasive for good reason. Those who aren’t succumbing to that fear are obvious.
[49:30] Brad: Existing customers with large businesses probably felt more of a frozen response than other smaller entrepreneurial clients who are more optimistic and energized about finding solutions.
[52:23] Bob talks about how agencies need to start seeing themselves as producers and psychologists. “When it comes to marketing, consumers are smart… and when it comes to media, you’ve got to create it.”
[54:11] Ken talks about how in the past, the client was demanding things from the agency, but these days the agency is the expert and it’s the agency job to educate the client. [55:15] Brad, Ken and Bob give their email addresses, so if you’re looking for an agency to partner with, reach out to them! BAyres AT anthemrepublic.com and ken AT metacake.com and bobwhutchins AT gmail.com | |||
| 12 May 2023 | Ep 130: How to sell creative services | 00:43:09 | |
Subtitle: When you think about creativity, you typically think of painting, poetry, or some other art form. The truth is, creativity is in everything; whether it’s a design, a color scheme, or a plan of action. In business, creativity can be your secret weapon to success. The hard part is convincing others that it’s a weapon, not a hindrance. In this episode, we break down practical ways to market creative as well as the importance of communication, conviction, the true meaning of a brand, breaking stereotypes, and more in this week’s episode.
Summary: In this episode, the guys delve into the topic of creativity in the workplace and explore its importance and practical value in business. Bob opens the discussion by asking whether being creative makes one a better business person and whether creativity is essential for success. Ken responds by discussing the importance of leveraging creativity and how it can create value. He breaks down practical ways to use creativity to drive business elements and highlights its power in generating practical results. Brad joins the conversation by emphasizing the true meaning of a brand, which is not just a logo or brand colors, but a promise. He explains how creativity can elevate and express that promise, emphasizing the importance of backing up the brand with logistics, practical elements, and product execution. Bob adds to this by stressing that without the practical elements to back up the brand, it loses its value. The guys then discuss how creativity can impact and improve areas of our lives on a personal level. They talk about the importance of breaking down the existing stereotypes about creativity and shifting one's mindset to embrace creativity as a valuable skill. They emphasize that creativity is not limited to artistic endeavors but can be applied in all aspects of life, including problem-solving and decision-making. The conversation then shifts to marketing creative services effectively. Ken asks the guys if they have any strategies or thoughts on how to do so. Bob answers by emphasizing the importance of communication and interpreting branding, marketing, and strategy in a language that the client can understand. Brad adds to this by discussing the importance of understanding the customer journey and how a brand makes them feel. The guys also discuss the importance of backing up a rebrand with fulfilled promises and how communicating the value of creativity is crucial in effectively marketing creative services. They acknowledge the challenges of marketing creative services and stress the importance of communicating their value. In conclusion, the guys close with a quote by Maya Angelou, "people don't remember what you said or what you did. They remember how you made them feel." This quote highlights the importance of the emotional impact that creativity can have and how it can leave a lasting impression. Overall, the episode emphasizes the practical value of creativity in business, personal growth, and marketing creative services effectively.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:51] Bob opens this week’s episode by discussing the topic for this week, creativity’s role in the workplace and breaking the existing stereotypes about creativity. “Does being creative make you a better busin353ess person? And then I would take it a step further and say, Does being creative and learning how to think creatively? Is it essential for success?” [4:08] Ken talks about the importance of leveraging creativity and the value it can create. [5:32] Ken breaks down some of the ways you can practically leverage creativity. “That's why I think creativity is so powerful; it’s so practical, because when leveraged correctly, it actually drives practical business elements.” [7:41] Brad discusses what a brand actually is. “Your brand is not your logo, it's not your brand colors. A brand is a promise. A promise is elevated and expressed through creativity.” [12:13] Bob talks about the importance of backing up your brand with logistics, practical elements, and your creative. “If it's not backed up with the logistics and the practical side and the product and how that product is executed, then the brand has no value at all.” [14:49] Bob begins a new discussion, talking about the practical and personal ways creativity can impact and improve areas of our lives. [21:07] Bob talks about the importance of breaking down the believed stereotypes about creativity and shifting your mindset. “There's real value in going, I don't have to just do it this one way. That's the value that people come and pay us for.” [24:44] Ken discusses the importance of identifying your superpower and advantages in the market. [26:18] Brad talks about the power of strong conviction in creative, product, and brand. “You have to have really strong conviction as a creator.” [28:18] Ken asks the guys if they have any strategies or thoughts on how to effectively market creative services. [29:55] Bob answers and discusses the importance of communicating the client’s issue to them in a way they’ll understand. Often miscommunication is the issue, so looking at the application of creative services with that lens is an effective way to market them. “I always approach it from a communication perspective. Because most people understand that you're kind of on a level playing field. And if you can reinterpret branding, marketing, strategy, all of that and put it into common language of communication, I think you'd then you're on that's how you can sell that a lot better.” [32:21] Brad talks about the importance of understanding the journey of the customers and how does your brand make them feel? [35:31] Brad discusses the importance of backing up a rebrand with fulfilled promises. “But if you reinvent yourself, it's not just changing a logo; that was the last thing we did. They had to change and make a promise that they had to organizationally keep.” [38:51] Ken talks about the challenges of effectively marketing creative and the importance of communicating its value. “In a marketing problem, there are very few things that are not creative related.” [42:03] Brad closes with a Maya Angelou quote, “people don't remember what you said or what you did. They remember how you made them feel.”
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| 04 Nov 2020 | Ep 45: We’re Tired… Are you tired? Combatting overwhelm. | 00:48:09 | |
Summary: Ken shares the pressure he’s recently felt with several big projects that all require a lot of his time and attention AND they all demand to be the top priority. Brad shares similar experiences, and tells us about time blocking and time management to be intentional about his time. Bob challenges everyone to dig deeper into where the pressure really comes from- is it from others? From internal expectations? From past conditioning that no longer serves you? How can you as a business owner take steps to combat overwhelm, and allow your employees the same freedom and opportunities? Because after all, the last thing anyone wants is a burnt-out team. Listen in for tips on prioritizing your time and energy, keeping things in perspective, and suggestions about creating a more balanced life with work that feels purposeful and energizing instead of draining.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:15] Bob shares the text messages sent between The Guys about topics for Agency Exposed- Ken shares that he’s been combatting the feeling of overwhelm and whether it’s worth it. [2:21] Ken shares the Q4 pressure that’s built up and how difficult it’s been to balance work and home life. There is a MOUNTAIN of work that he feels that only he can do, but there is a real struggle to delegate. [5:30] Bob says that Ken talks about setting boundaries a lot- when those things are pushed because of special projects or deadlines, how does that work? [5:59] Ken: “The feeling of overwhelm for me happens when I feel like there’s way more things that.. If they don’t get done they’re gonna blow up.”
[9:21] Ken continues, divulging that oftentimes he feels that because he has a higher calling, being overwhelmed where he’s at doesn’t feel like an option. But those feelings come from a place of comparison, and it’s difficult to shake that. [10:00] Brad shares that he often feels that he’s losing control of his time, that the giant task list becomes unending and he finds it difficult to accomplish things. So he’s turned to blocking off time on his calendar every week, the main tasks and the priorities taken into account, and this helps him to have time for putting out fires and use the blocked time to get things done. [11:38] Ken shares about time blocking and adjusting it according to lifestyle changes. It helps him to be intentional, and shares that his current overwhelm is likely a product of that time blocking being misaligned with where his priorities are. [12:45] Bob asks about sharing personal calendars with co-workers- all The Guys do it, but only to a certain extent, depending on who it is. He asks if this brings anxiety- having others knowing they can add meetings to your calendar and having the fear of time booking up before you control how it’s being spent. Bob says that his big issue recently has been making time in between Zoom meetings to actually get work done. [13:40] Bob: “Many times Zoom calls are created where in-person meetings would not have been created… that could have been taken care of in an email string… instead of two or three Zoom calls to get to the point.” [15:50] Brad talks about the smaller increments of time that are truly wasted in excessive Zoom calls/ bad time etiquette with Zoom meetings. “The reality is, is that we could have been getting something done in that 15 minutes…” [16:14] Ken agrees, saying that having a hard stop time at the end of the day isn’t rude, it’s healthy! “I think it actually communicates… as long as you’re doing it out of legitimate reasons and you’re not being a jerk… it communicates boundaries implicitly.” [16:35] Brad circles back to his calendar and how it does create anxiety for him to give others access to his calendar. “That’s why I block 2 weeks out because if I don’t block, then all of a sudden I’ve got calendar invites at times that I wanted to save…” [17:05] Bob gives a practical takeaway “Go through every single day and just block out and put busy or whatever way you want to block out time, whether you know what you’re going to do that day or not, just make sure you block it so that you have free access to it first.” [17:45] Ken suggests taking it a step further by creating an ideal week. Metacake’s team does this exercise together every year, and it helps to understand everyone’s time better.
[19:15] Brad suggests a calendar tool like Calendly, where you can offer your time slots for meetings and people can schedule them as they like. [19:28] Bob adds that scheduling hobbies and self-care activities as well. Create a list of priorities that pop up on your calendar that are as important as every other activity. [20:18] Ken “I think a lot of people try to separate work and life a lot of ways, and the truth is not that separate.” He talks about how his hobbies and keeping them high on the priority list are actually what allows him to perform on the work side. He says that sometimes he’s a little embarrassed to put it on his calendar, because if there is a ton of work to do it feels selfish. But working out fuels everything else, so it is important! [21:24] Bob shares a recent interview he was listening to with Lenny Kravitz on NPR. Lifelong musicians that plan to share music for as long as possible- like Lenny Kravitz- view their body as something that has to be maintained and in peak condition. [23:30] Brad shares that not giving yourself the time to relax and unwind results in burnout, exhaustion, and ultimately it’s a myth that you have to work hard 12 hours a day to be effective. [24:28] Ken says that often it’s just trying to keep up the appearance of working hard that is exhausting, not the actual work that you do.
[25:45] Bob talks about how often we look at athletes or dancers and assume that they’re dependent on they’re bodies… we assume that our bodies are divorced from our minds, when in reality they all feed into one another. [27:30] Brad talks about how this conversation has challenged him a bit- creating a business that allows employees to take an hour and a half and exercise in the afternoon if it’s needed. How can you be a business owner that allows time for that and intentionally implements that. [28:15] Ken “I expect people to work really hard for me...if they’re on our team, if they’re committed to something… I expect that they’re going to take care of themselves.”
[30:29] Bob rewinds to the beginning of the conversation. As business owners, there can be a lot of shame in admitting that, in admitting that you’re stressed out. You’ve gotta be kind to yourself, and take care of how you compare yourself to others. [32:30] Bob stresses that you are NOT your work, that your identity is not just inside of what your work is. And if you feel that way, then it’s time to reassess and do some self-reflection. “I am not my success today- that is not my identity.” [33:27] Ken talks about reminding yourself that discomfort means you’re growing, that if there’s something that's painful that you’re going through, it means you’re persevering and learning more. [35:16] Brad talks about the physical sensations that come along with overwhelm and anxiety. The attitude that carries you through that overwhelm makes all the difference, and it’s worthwhile to identify patterns in your energy levels and feelings of overwhelm. [36:45] Bob says that personality has a lot to do with this as well- if you tend to be more aware of how you’re feeling, you’re going to be piqued for attentiveness to that feeling.
[38:46] Brad “We’re not machines, we’re emotional beings. And I think sometimes I forget about that.” [41:39] Bob asks if Ken feels a bit more relaxed now that he’s talked about things. Definitely yes! [43:08] Bob stresses that when you’re feeling this way, like you’re getting overwhelmed and burnt out- talk to someone. Reach out and ask for help. That is one of the powerful missions of Agency Exposed, to let people know that there is no shame in asking for help- this isn’t a sign of weakness. [43:26] Brad says that when you mention this to your team, they are more willing to step forward and do what they can to lighten your load.
[45:34] Bob “Life and experience is simply a reflection of what’s going on inside of you… I think that’s always something good to remember too.” | |||