Dive into the complete episode list for List Envy. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.
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Pub. Date
Title
Duration
26 Nov 2019
Top 5 things we’re leaving behind
01:09:10
Fellow podcaster Jon Hickman joins Mark to cast aside things from our adolescence that we can get by just as well without.
Jon co-hosts the hilarious and often genuinely moving – no pun intended — fitness, running and tech podcast You Don’t Look Like a Runner with Nick Moreton, and Thread with Mark.
Today Mark is talking the golden age of arcade games, which ran from 1979 til around 1983. Mark and Nick start with their own childhood arcade memories, and Mark gets quizzical about the American quarter as a “unit of fun”. As this was recorded during the Quarantimes, conversation inevitably turned to the decline in in-person entertainment like arcades and cinemas.
Journalist Eliza Lita is a self-confessed bookworm, but her early reading focused more on non-fiction work. As a result, she’s picked up a wide variety of useful knowledge, and kept her curiosity alive. She and Mark share an appreciation for good crime fiction, and Eliza has some tips to help Mark finish the books he keeps starting.
Writer and podcaster Sara-Mae Tuson kicks off a double-bill of brilliant women in literature. This week, Mark and Sara-Mae discuss under-appreciated female authors.
Sara-Mae is a writer who’s turned her natural storytelling abilities into podcasting magic. Her previous work, The Sugar Baby Confessionals picked won bronze in the Best Sex and Relationship Podcast at the 2019 British Podcast Awards, and she’s now working on a series all about the life and work of her first pick.
Mark and Sara-Mae discuss the value of being talked up to in literature, the perception of romance in literature, and the industry’s apparent reliance on classifying work, and putting authors and their work in boxes.
Time-travel films are often about fixing the big things, so says this week’s guest, Karl Hodge, but time-travel romance films address the small things that keep us awake at night.
Mark and Karl begin by looking at some of Christopher Nolan’s work, from Memento to Tenet, and trying to figure out whether they qualify as time-travel films.
Many people are intrigued by the depiction of their profession in popular fiction, and none more so than librarians, like this week’s guest Owen Stephens.
What do mechanical limbs, credit cards, and the atomic bomb have in common? They all had their roots in science fiction.
Ashley Hamer joins Mark to rank real-world inventions inspired by sci-fi, and Mark reveals that he apparently went to school in a gadget factory.
(00:00) - Cold open
(00:11) - Introduction
(00:41) - Guest
(03:44) - Ashley’s pick: Autonomous cars
(07:21) - Mark’s pick: World Wide Web
(08:39) - Ashley’s pick: Atomic bombs
(10:09) - Mark’s pick: Mobile phone
(11:58) - Ashley’s pick: Video calling
(17:26) - Mark’s pick: Helicopter
(20:23) - Ashley’s pick: Credit cards
(21:46) - Mark’s go-go gadget school
(25:15) - Mark’s pick: Mechanical limbs
(28:13) - Midamble
(30:29) - Building the final list
(31:05) - Honourable mentions
(33:09) - Taboo Science
Ashley is the host of Taboo Science, which examines taboos through a scientific lens. She’s also the author of The Weekly Tweak, which seeks to help your podcasting game improve, one tweak at a time.
You can also find her pretty much everywhere online @smashleyhamer.
Top 5 Eurovision Song Contest finals from the '00s
00:51:50
TV writer Mike McComb joins Mark to discuss the bizarre and beautiful magic of this European musical tradition. Enjoy this episode, and don’t forget to have a drink on Terry in song 9.
Mike is a Eurovision aficionado, having come to it via the Sounds Like Teen Spirit documentary. He’s not let being American and thus being geofenced out of most live broadcasts steer him away, as his work on the EuroWhat? podcast will attest.
Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some unmissable Eurovision recommendations you won’t get elsewhere.
Everyone’s pretty, everyone eventually gets down to it, no-one throws up, and occasionally steam comes out of someone’s ears. Is there more to cute Korean dramas than this?
Turns out yes, yes there is, as positive psychologist and K-drama stan Anya Pearse explains.
(00:00) - A lot of thought wente into this
(00:11) - Introduction
(00:57) - What makes K-dramas different?
(04:39) - Anya’s pick: Extraordinary Attorney Woo
(09:02) - Mark’s pick: I am Not a Robot
(12:50) - Anya’s pick: Are You Human?
(16:21) - Mark’s pick: Strong Girl Bong-soon
(22:03) - Anya’s pick: Navillera
(25:58) - Mark’s pick: Hometown Cha-Cha-Cha
(30:10) - Anya’s pick: Rookie Historian Goo Hae-ryung
Mark chats with casual birder Suzy Buttress about features, song and flight.
Suzy has specific criteria she uses to judge the quality of birds (which makes her a List Envy natural): song, plumage, behaviour and impact on the garden. She also provides some great advice if you’re looking to feed the birds, without becoming the crazy pigeon lady from Home Alone, or spreading plants that shouldn’t be spread.
Mark gets to the truth, with political podcaster Karin Robinson, as they share their lists of films about the people who keep the presses running.
Karin hosts the Primarily 2020 podcast, which tracks the ongoing story of the Democratic primaries (the thing where they elect the party’s Presidential candidate). She feels that films about journalism tell the best stories about people engaging with public life.
(00:00) - Introduction
(03:42) - Karin's pick: Spotlight
(07:02) - Mark's pick: Network
(11:26) - Karin's pick: His Girl Friday
(15:24) - Mark's pick: The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
(19:02) - Karin's pick: Good Night, and Good Luck
(23:56) - Mark's pick: Frost/Nixon
(27:26) - Karin's pick: All the President's Men
(30:58) - Mark's pick: Almost Famous
(34:10) - Karin's pick: The Post
(39:36) - Mark's pick: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
The world faces a host of very real and serious dangers. But if you believe there’s nothing little ol’ us can do, it’s probably because that’s what certain people want you to think.
No, this isn’t a conspiracy episode – just a collation of ways you can actually make a difference in your home, your street, your local area, and maybe a little further afield.
Rebecca Bratspies, environment expert and law professor joins Mark to discuss their top-5 ways we can actually make a difference.
(00:00) - Cold open
(00:28) - Introduction
(01:03) - More than trees and bunnies
(03:06) - What’s the world’s problem?
(04:51) - Mark rationalises his list
(06:01) - Rebecca’s pick: Vote
(08:05) - Mark’s pick: Ask before you judge
(11:36) - Rebecca’s pick: Get involved locally
(18:24) - Mark’s pick: Teach empathy
(21:53) - Rebecca’s pick: Eat less meat
(27:38) - Mark’s pick: Watch the Monty Python Argument Sketch
(28:58) - Rebecca’s pick: Rethink your use of plastic
(33:10) - Mark’s pick: Stop othering people
(37:59) - Rebecca’s pick: Be a lifelong learner
(41:22) - Mark’s pick: Spend time with people, not systems
In this first episode, Mark speaks with sleep and respiratory scientist Max Thomas, all about science! Specifically, the unexpected or otherwise fascinating discoveries that have brought us incredible advancement. There’s also stuff about bums and willies, too, and more than one object being inserted into more than one dog.
Max makes a living out of making people breathless, which is a cool way of saying he studies how people breathe, and often has to make them not breathe very well so he can find out why they’re not breathing very well… you’re smart, you get it.
This episode was recorded on Black Wednesday, which, it has been posited, might not be the day you want to find yourself in hospital, as it’s the day when trainee doctors start their residencies. But we’re pretty sure it’s fine now.
(00:00) - Introduction
(02:38) - Meeting Max
(06:13) - Max's pick: Carbon dating
(11:35) - Mark's pick: the X-Ray
(14:25) - Max's pick: Sildenafil
(19:51) - Max's pick: LSD
(27:02) - Mark's pick: Penicillin
(29:06) - Max's pick: self-experimentation
(36:49) - Mark's pick: Insulin
(39:14) - Max's pick: Stomach ulsers
(44:42) - Mark's pick: Laminated glass
(46:24) - Mark's pick: Pacemaker
(48:44) - Mark's pick: Microwaves
(52:20) - Building the final list
(55:23) - A late pick fro mMark: Quinine
(01:01:00) - Honourable mentions
(01:04:01) - Finishing up
Max is part of Birmingham-based improv comedy troupe OK Stop!, who you can see perform at 1000 Trades in the Jewellery Quarter on the last Wednesday of every month. You can also follow Max on Twitter @maximum_science.
Musician, writer and improv comedian Tom Clabon joins Mark to fight about which of Birmingham’s bands are best, and possibly what the word “definitive” means.
And by Birmingham, we mean Birmingham. The proper one, in the UK.
Tom has performed in bands (like Bussy), and like Mark knows the pain of publishing music to Bandcamp to little fanfare. But they’re both absolutely not bitter about it. Tom also presented Indie Mixtape on local station Brum Radio.
The pair share gig-playing memories, the venues they’ve nearly been thrown out of (Mark), and the ones they’ve scammed their way into (Tom’s dad).
If you’ve heard of the majority of Tom’s picks, then you already know more about Birmingham’s music scene in 2019 than Mark does. If you’ve heard of the majority of Mark’s picks, then you’re a granddad and death will claim you soon.
Also, Mark tries to coin a phrase for the pro-life movement, but doesn’t do a good job, and Tom threatens to give Mark a weird handshake.
(00:00) - Introduction
(12:13) - Honourable mentions
(22:52) - Tom's pick: Johnny Foreigner
(27:10) - Mark's pick: Electric Light Orchestra
(31:14) - Tom's pick: Mutes
(35:36) - Mark's pick: Misty's Big Adventure
(39:53) - Tom's pick: Hoopla Blue
(43:29) - Mark doesn't pick Pram
(45:40) - Mark's pick: The Moody Blues
(48:47) - More of Tom's honourable mentions
(49:34) - Tom's pick: The Cosmics
(52:53) - Building the final list
(57:05) - Final honourable mentions
(01:00:08) - Wrapping up
To follow our Spotify playlist, full of all the bands we mention — even the ones Mark doesn’t like – sign up to Extra Envy, our free newsletter.
Check out Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, the podcast Tom co-hosts, and OK Stop, the improv troupe he and Mark can be found performing in, every month.
Writer and Internet raconteur Jon Bounds joins Mark to build a list close to his heart.
Jon grew up on 70s sitcoms and wants nothing more than to share his love. If you’re in the UK, these might be shows you can check out on Yesterday or in film-form via Talking Pictures.
Jon is a student of erstwhile TV, a fact clearly demonstrated by his massive affection for the 80s tele-phenomenon than is Boon.
Mark and Jon’s differences in comedy tastes are perhaps best illustrated by the fact that Jon quite likes Not Going Out, and Josh, which Mark really doesn’t.
(00:00) - Introduction
(08:50) - Honourable mentions
(20:22) - Jon's pick: Porridge
(26:52) - Mark's pick: Open All Hours
(29:33) - Jon's pick: Fawlty Towers
(36:02) - Mark's pick: Man About the House
(39:05) - Jon's pick: Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads?
Mark is joined by nature lover and avid walker Sue Burlton, and together they uncover the joys of a good stretch of the legs. If you’re planning a stroll, this will make excellent accompaniment.
We look down the barrel of a gun, at a besuited comedy magician called Thom Peterson. He enters centre-frame, aims his gun and fires. Red washes over the screen. Fade to black.
Thom maintains that magicians just want to be Bond, and who can blame him? He and Mark talk about their favourite — and least-favourite — Bonds, the trouble with the E-on canon (which is not a villainous super-weapon), and much more.
Expect swearing, Bond trivia, an extraordinary amount of incorrect information, and spoilers.
(00:37) - Introduction
(12:49) - Thom's pick: Francisco Scaramanga
(15:59) - Mark's pick: Francisco Scaramanga
(21:19) - Thom's pick: Gustav Graves / Colonel Moon
(23:13) - Mark's pick: Alec Trevelyan
(25:05) - Thom's pick: Xenia Onatopp
(27:03) - Mark's pick: Auric Goldfinger
(30:13) - Thom's pick: Max Zorin
(33:47) - Mark's pick: Hugo Drax
(35:33) - Thom's pick: Rosa Klebb
(37:31) - Mark's pick: Renard
(39:53) - Honourable mentions and villainous actors
(43:03) - Finding the next Bond
(46:01) - A View to a Break
(48:57) - Building the final list
(55:07) - The Amazing Guy
Thom died in March 2023 after battling an illness. He was a good friend, a talented and funny performer, and an overall Amazing Guy. He is profoundly missed.
Hands up who overthinks stuff? Did you really put your hand up? Is anyone else putting theirs up? Did you put yours up too quickly? Maybe you were too slow? And what is a hand meant to do once it’s up in the air, anyway? I mean, we’re always being told to wave them like we just don’t care… how does a person do that?
And breathe.
Kim Witten helps people turn their overthinking into expert thinking, and she joins Mark to build a top-5 list of ways to tame the gremlins in our brain.
(00:00) - You are in charge
(00:40) - Introduction
(01:21) - Why the brain?
(03:30) - The vice of advice
(06:13) - Kim’s pick: Make a top-5 list of you
(11:33) - Mark’s pick: Walk for a 10-song playlist
(15:06) - Kim’s pick: Get some perspective
(18:52) - Mark’s pick: Occupy your chimp
(22:26) - Kim’s pick: Treat feelings as feedback
(25:20) - Mark’s pick: Make the right thing the easy thing
(28:28) - Kim’s pick: Get stuff out of your head
(32:04) - Mark’s pick: Dance like nobody’s watching
Staple a jelly doughnut to your ear, set your spleen to channel 27 and ask your favourite albino squirrel to a dance. Lex Friedman joins Mark to discuss their top-5 songs by “Weird” Al Yankovic that aren’t parodies.
Lex is, among many things (musician, improviser, podcaster, game developer and consultant), a turbo Yankovic fan, and it’s quite possible that even Al himself might struggle to come up with a better list.
(00:00) - Stay weird, Al
(00:40) - Introduction
(01:04) - Getting into Weird Al
(05:52) - Weird: The Al Yankovic Story
(08:02) - Lex’s pick: Word Crimes
(11:06) - Mark’s pick: Everything You Know is Wrong
(14:26) - Lex’s pick: Trapped in the Drive-Thru
(18:16) - Mark’s pick: Albuquerque
(21:41) - Lex’s pick: Hardware Store
(24:04) - Mark’s pick: Christmas at Ground Zero
(26:49) - Lex’s pick: Skipper Dan
(28:33) - Mark’s pick: Your Horoscope for Today
(31:04) - Lex’s pick: Frank's 2000" TV
(32:49) - Mark’s pick: The Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota
Those “You had to be there” moments; the jokes that made you cry but you can no longer remember; the savage putdown of the ambitious heckler. These are the moments that distinguish live comedy from what you can get on Netflix.
This week, new standup Dave Bond joins Mark to discuss their top-5 British standups you can currently see live… and simply must!
Mark is joined by one half of the literary podcast Your Own Words, voracious reader and Danish furniture fan, Becky Graham, to swap notes on badass women from the printed page.
Rhythm is a dancer. The rhythm is gonna get ya. And you must not, under any circumstances, stop the beat.
This week, Stephanie Fuccio joins Mark to pick their top 5 songs that drag them to the dance floor. At the end of this, you’ll either leave with an earworm or the need to jump on a mini-trampoline for a bit.
(00:00) - We have to dance
(00:17) - Introduction
(00:58) - When do you dance?
(05:41) - Steph’s pick: Missy Elliott - The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly)
(08:40) - Mark’s pick: Brush Shiels – Fields of Athenry
(10:37) - Steph’s pick: Girls' Generation – 소녀시대
(12:31) - Mark’s pick: Deee Lite – Groove is in the Heart
(16:46) - Steph’s pick: Donna Summer – The Last Dance
(18:43) - Mark’s pick: House of Pain – Jump Around
(20:25) - Steph’s pick: Walk the Moon – One Foot
(24:47) - Mark’s pick: Madness – Baggy Trousers
(26:36) - Steph’s pick: Elderbrook – Glad I Found You
The show gets #spoopy as the Thrilling Adventure Hour’s Ben Blacker joins Mark to count down his top five silver-screen terrors.
Ben co-created the Thrilling Adventure Hour with his writing partner Ben Acker as a live theatre show in the style of an old-timey evening of radio entertainment. There’s over a decade’s worth of Thrilling to enjoy, so subscribe to the free newsletter to get some hand-picked favourites you can see and hear via YouTube.
Ben’s picks
In order of discussion
Xenomorph Known more commonly as “the alien from Alien(s)”, the Xenomorph or internecivus raptus is Ben’s top pick because at its heart, Ridley Scott’s 1979 Alien is a horror film, and this monster ticks all the boxes.
Gremlins The original Gremlins is fun for most, if not all the family, as it so well intersects comedy and horror. Ben appreciates how the rules are set out, but that as an audience we don’t yet know what the consequences are for breaking them. Ben is not a fan of the sequel, as it skews too much towards the funny.
The Thing The titular Thing from The Thing is terrifying in its amorphousness. It can take the shape of anything it touches, and although it involves some body horror — of which Ben isn’t a big fan — it comfortably makes Ben’s list as a full-on monster, albeit a somewhat formless one.
Graboid Ben’s final pick is the worm things from Tremors, one of his favourite movies (and a firm favourite of Mark’s). Ben appreciates the cool, gross and classic monsteriness of these underground creatures, but is not on board with the name “graboid”, and he wishes to make this position absolutely clear.
Mark’s pick
In order of discussion
Zombie For Mark, a proper zombie film ends with courage in the face of utter hopelessness. They’re one of the few fictional entities that still scare Mark. Although he originally lauded 28 Days Later as a great modern take on the zombie, he’s not so sure it holds up.
Audrey II Although Ben doesn’t consider this Little Shop of Horrors baddy scary, Mark thinks potentially being grabbed by the balls and eaten by a giant blood-sucking plant with the voice of a Motown legend to be a little intimidating.
Hannibal Lecter Hannibal the cannibal, in all his incarnations, makes Mark’s list as an almost supernaturally naughty man, but can Ben reconcile this against his criteria, or does this constitute a slippery slope?
Pennywise Mark put Pennywise the dancing clown on his list for similar reasons to Ben’s selection of the Thing. (And yes, Mark understands that Pennywise is just one form of It, but it’s the version we see most in the films.) Mark finds the films not only funny, but really scary (especially the first).
This week, Mark embarks on a journey of musical discovery, with Oliver Wang, co-host of the Heat Rocks podcast. If you’re not familiar with latin boogaloo, it’s time to get acquainted.
Oliver loves this fusion of more traditional latin melodies — with complex chords and meandering melodies — and the growing soul music movement, prevalent in 1960s New York, not just because of its inherently physical nature — this stuff just makes you wanna move — but because of what it teaches us about the culture at the time.
Just as a previous generation of immigrants embarked on a cultural exchange with the US and established themselves as the kings and queens of mambo and cha-cha-cha, so a new wave of second-generation American-raised Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Dominicans (to name a few) brought their musical heritage and mashed it up with the popular doo-wop and early R&B styles of the day.
Latin boogaloo wasn’t a lauded genre by purists, who saw it as a bit of a debasement of the complex and intricate style they were used to. It’s a story as old as time.
(00:00) - Introduction
(06:10) - Bubble-gum boogaloo
(15:20) - Heat Rocks
(19:14) - Oliver's pick: Gypsy Woman, by Joe Bataan
(23:00) - Mark's pick: Ali Baba, by Louie Ramirez
(26:34) - Oliver's pick: I Like it Like That, by Pete Rodríguez
(27:20) - Oliver's pick: Wanted Dead or Alive, by the Joe Cuba Sextette
(29:40) - Mark's pick: Watermelon Man!, by Mongo Santamaria
(33:08) - Oliver's pick: Acid, by Ray Barretto
(37:18) - Mark's pick: Laberinto de Pasiones, by La Lupe
(40:50) - Oliver's pick: My Latin Soul, by Bobby Matos and the Combo Conquistadores
(43:22) - Mark's pick: At the Party, by Hector Rivera
(45:16) - Honourable mentions
(47:34) - Building the final list
(49:32) - More honourable mentions
(52:20) - Goodbyes
To follow our Spotify playlist, full of all the songs we mention, sign up to Extra Envy, our free newsletter. It’s the perfect antidote to the encroaching autumn (the playlist, not the newsletter).
As we recorded, Heat Rocks, the podcast he hosts with music supervisor Morgan Rhodes, was celebrating their 100th episode. You can, and absolutely should, check it out. You can follow Oliver on Twitter and on Instagram, and read his long-running music blog. All of his links can also be found on his website.
This week, Mark is joined by podcaster, improv comedian and Harry Potter superfan Cat Turner, to collaborate on a list of the best five characters in JK Rowling’s Hogwarts universe.
If spoilers are a thing you want to avoid, maybe skip this one until you’re all caught up. Like Mark maybe should’ve.
Cat grew up listening to Stephen Fry read the Harry Potter books, and wants to sort her soon-to-arrive hamster into the appropriate Hogwarts house, but she insists she isn’t a nerd about it.
Mark’s seen some of the Harry Potter films and listened, a little distractedly, to the first four Potter audiobooks.
As well as knowing everything there is to know about Harry Potter, Cat is also a maths genius, which is something she credits partially with her own Professor McGonagall. Cat also presents Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, a podcast uncovering the weird things people believe, like that the Titanic was switched at the last minute, or that Beyoncé faked her pregnancy.
Mark is joined by super-talented singer-songwriter Bryony Williams. Bryony realised she could sing in her early teens, and spent most of her mid-to-late teens honing her craft. At nineteen she was in the electro-pop duo Field Harmonics, and has been recording solo since 2018.
(00:00) - Introduction
(05:50) - Bryony's pick: Cleaning
(08:02) - Mark's pick: Over-planning the task
(13:28) - Bryony's pick: Spontaneous trips out with pals
(17:58) - Mark's pick: Organising and taxonomising
Technology writer and drone expert Adam Juniper joins Mark to discuss machines that go bleep.
Adam spent many years editing and publishing books on photography, which over the years has become more about technology than chemicals.
He and Mark discuss the fun and frustration that can be had when delving into the world of smart home tech, and you can read more of Adam’s thoughts on this — and other desirable tech — on his Tech Yearning blog.
Like Mark, Adam had a Game Gear, which you can hear discussed in episode 2 of this very podcast.
As a listening note: the pair do talk about the Amazon Echo devices and the lady that lives inside them, but rest assured, thanks to the ingenious editing technique of cutting out a bit of the word Alea*, your costly egg timer won’t be set off.
“Let’s get away to this old European castle”, he said. “It’ll be romantic”, he said. Then you find your husband’s EVP meter in your carry-on luggage and you remember you married a writer of real-life ghost stories.
John Olson, author of the Stranger Bridgerland book series joins Mark to discuss places that will creep you the hell out.
(00:00) - The Stair Monster
(00:07) - Introduction
(00:53) - The 100 Year-old House
(04:03) - The Man in the Hat
(05:03) - Where is the evidence?
(06:38) - John’s pick: the Queen Mary
(10:32) - Mark’s pick: 284 Green Street
(12:29) - John’s pick: The Stanley Hotel, Colorado
(16:15) - Mark’s pick: The Catacombs underneath Paris
What are your top 5 sandwiches? What’s the best way to rank Bond films? Which are your favourite misheard lyrics? Making lists is good, but it’s better with friends.
This is List Envy, a podcast where Mark Steadman collaborate with actors, writers, musicians, comedians, scientists and podcasters to build a definitive top 5 list on a topic of the guest’s choosing.
Clips in this trailer include * Cat Turner from Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, talking about Harry Potter characters * Writer Jon Bounds on 70s British sitcoms * Musician Brendan Hutchins on pop punk banks of the 2000s * Comedian Lucy Day on the toys we had as kids
List Envy launches on August 13th with 2 episodes, and new episodes come out every Tuesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you’re reading this now. Search for the podcast by name, or visit the website.
Everyone can stand to be a little bit more banana, so this week’s guest is professional clown, public speaker and banana enthusiast, Emma Stroud.
Emma’s personal day of relevation – perhaps not dissimilar to Albert Hofmann’s bicycle day, as covered in our first episode — came about when Emma realised how transformative she found the act of dressing up at a grown-up function, not like a fancy duchess, but like a banana.
Emma believes part of her purpose is, not only to help people laugh, but to encourage them to think more as a result. But that’s not where the healing ends: the pair uncover a way to save yourself from embarrassment at the hands of a mushy apple, and Mark asks Emma if she’s ever eaten a noni.
Nothing is ever quite as it seems in the world of spies. A watch isn’t just a watch – it’s a deadly weapon. That phonebooth? Also a weapon. Bag pipes? Weapon. This sandwich though, that’s just Q’s lunch. Don’t touch it.
Newsletter editor, event organiser and podcast wonder Arielle Nissenblatt joins Mark to discuss an often maligned tuber.
Arielle grew up almost exclusively on potatoes, although she admits her palate has broadened slightly since then. If you ever thought this vegetable (which is not a vegetable, it’s a tuber; we’ve covered this) was boring, prepare to have your mind exploded all the way off.
You’ll also learn some interesting facts about potatoes, so strap in and get ready to carbo-load.
Mark takes flight with speaker, author and “the entrepreneur’s godmother” Alison Edgar, to build a list of the best places it takes too long to fly to.
Alison flies a lot, and finds pinning her destinations on a map lends itself to a sense of perspective. Mark responds by finding another way to tie this into his favourite sci-fi series, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
Alison, like Mark, enjoys — or enjoyed - a Bloody Mary, which has — for reasons best known to others — become de rigueur for those who enjoy boozing above the clouds.
Public service announcement: if you have Netflix and are on a long-haul flight, do remember to download a season of something to watch before you fly. No-one wants to be caught short if the in-flight media selection is sub-par.
Born in Glasgow and a self-styled extravert, Alison is not content with spending all day every day on the beach or in the local British theme pub, watching endless Only Fools repeats. She wants to mix it up with the people that make up the places she visits.
As well as a couple of good cocktail recommendations, this episode also includes a game you can play at the airport.
The Christmas season begins with Mark talking to Daz Wright of Moselele, about the best songs to ring in the festivities.
Daz is a musician, and a founder-member of the Birmingham-based ukulele group Moselele. He’s also a big fan of Christmas, and delivered a sack full of joy to the List Envy studio, along with an honest-to-goodness Christmas cracker and actual sleigh bells.
(11:28) - Mark's pick: Greg Lake - I Believe in Father Christmas
(13:14) - Daz's pick: Elton John - Step into Christmas
(17:16) - Mark's pick: The Waitresses - Christmas Wrapping
(20:24) - Daz's pick: Wham! - Last Christmas
(23:18) - Mark's pick: The Pogues & Kirsty MacColl - Fairytale of New York
(28:02) - Maria Carey - All I Want for Christmas is You
(30:40) - Mark's pick: Johnny Mathis — When a Child is Born
(33:12) - Daz's pick: Weathergirls - Dear Santa, Bring Me a Man this Christmas (Part 1)
(35:56) - Mark's pick: Tom Jones & Cerys Matthews - Baby It's Cold Outside
(40:22) - Honourable mentions
(46:04) - Jingletime
(49:58) - Building the final list
(53:46) - And to all a good night
Join Moselele twice a month at the Prince of Wales pub in Moseley, Birmingham, to play popular songs of the day. And be sure to join them on Sunday December 22nd where they’ll be singing Christmas songs in the beer garden of said pub. Mark will be there, and we hope you will too.
Mark gets mathematical with bayesian mathematician Sophie Carr.
Sophie describes herself as an “accidental mathematician”, getting into the subject after studying to be an engineer. She got her PhD on the job, and transitioned from fluid mechanics to Bayesian statistics.
Mark talks to podcaster and “unapologetic Anglophile” Jen Tierney about the foods eaten and loved by “a nation of shopkeepers”.
As a young girl, Jen was persuaded to watch a BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, and has since made it her mission to consume all things Brit. As well as eating, Jen likes to cook, learning from /The Great British Bake Off/ and demonstrating more knowledge of British baked goods than the host of this podcast. Case in point: the popover.
List Envy is returning, with a brand new set of comedians, writers, performers, and layabouts. Join Mark and his guests every week as they continue to rank things in order from 1 to 5, so you don't have to.
Prepare to have your face melted clean off as you enter a whole new world of mouth noise, with guest Tani Levitt. And remember, if you’re sitting in the plash zone, you will get spittle all over you.
Tani presents SpeshFX, a narrative podcast that dives deep into the fascinating world of competitive beatboxing. If you’re familiar with the rap battle scene, it’s like that but nicer, and where people make their O face when being hit by several megatons of sick beats (just helping ease you in with the lingo).
Tani got into the scene via his brother, and started charting not only the beatbox battle scene, but also his own education, through SpeshFX. If you want a primer, start with his Beatboxing Basics YouTube playlist.
(00:00) - Introduction
(12:14) - Tani's pick: Alem
(15:28) - Mark's pick: NaPoM
(17:24) - Tani's pick: Alexinho
(19:20) - Mark's pick: Codfish
(22:04) - Tani's pick: Hiss
(23:38) - Mark's' pick: D-Low
(27:36) - What do beatbox champs win?
(30:16) - Tani's pick: Gene Shinozaki
(32:02) - Mark's pick: MB14
(34:26) - Honourable mentions
(40:32) - Finalising the list
(44:42) - More honourable mentions
(49:32) - How to follow the competetive beatbox scene
(53:36) - Goodbyes
If this has got you ready for more, you can follow the scene on YouTube via SwissBeatbox, the host of the Grand Beatbox Battle, or Beatbox Battle who host the World Championships every two years, and on Instagram via Alem, Hiss, and Madox for the shoutouts, or Swish Beatbox for the goofs.
You should subscribe to SpeshFX (via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts), to learn infinitely more about the beatbox scene than you will here.
Mark is joined by the Creative Director at Worcester-based design, branding and development agency WeAreBeard, Dave Webb, to share his top tips for working in the kind of field that your mum told you you should have a backup for.
Dave remembers the first day he was praised for drawing something good, instead of being made to feel like he was falling behind academically, which is where his affinity for creative work began.
A creative person’s priorities often don’t fit in with a “professional” culture, which can lead to clashes, of which both Mark and Dave have experience.
(00:00) - Introduction
(06:32) - Dave's tip: Don't have a plan B
(14:40) - Mark's tip: Be supportive
(19:46) - Dave's tip: Be childlike, but not childish
(22:58) - Mark's tip: Be stubborn
(27:52) - Dave's tip: Be excited by your work
(33:58) - Mark's tip: Run your own race
(43:00) - Dave's tip: Failing is learning
(49:42) - Mark's tip: Use what you have to hand
(56:00) - Dave's tip: It's a numbers game
(59:26) - Mark's tip: Take all advice with a pinch of salt
(01:03:34) - Refer a friend
(01:06:38) - Building the final list
(01:09:00) - Honourable mentions
(01:20:12) - More of Dave Webb
Follow Dave on Instagram and @illustratteddave, and check out the wonderful WeAreBeard, of which he is Creative Director.
Mark is joined by podcaster and self-confessed computer nerd Nick Moreton, to talk about films where people talk about mainframes and UNIX systems.
There are quite a few swears in this episode, and more than a little discussion about a mutual friend, co-host of Nick’s podcast and Mark’s, and previous List Envy guest, Jon Hickman.
Developer of horror video games including Butterfly Collector, Valerie Paris joins Mark to discuss point-and-click adventure games you’ll remember, and one or two you’ll never forget, no matter how hard you try.
List Envy is back in the new year with a new slate of guests and lists. To get us back into the spirit, Mark called up previous guests Cat Turner and Tom Clabon to swap “scary ghost stories”, as is tradition, according to It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year, which is a Christmas song.
(00:00) - Introduction
(03:22) - It's the most wonderful time of the year
Thrill to the sounds of podcaster and movie-lover Ben Smith, sharing his top five shlockbusters with Mark Steadman. You won’t believe your ears! List Envy, in select theatres now.
Ben is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast with previous guest Mike McComb, and hailing from the same state as Mystery Science Theater 3000 has a keen eye for a film that’s so bad it’s good. But that’s not all the Cannon studio had to offer; some of the work is surprisingly meaningful, if buried under piles of rubble caused by explosions set off by breakdancing ninjas.
Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some links to help you get your next bad movie night off the ground.
Mark especially is quite liberal with the spoiler sauce in this episode, so if you plan on watching any of these films, just be warned that the element of surprise — at least in terms of plot — might be diminished.
We’re all standing on the shoulders of giants. And there are no more impressive shoulders to stand on than the great physicists of the 19th and 20th centuries.
This week, Mark is in conversation with author and teacher Katherine Benfante, to determine who wins physics.
Musician and podcaster Brendan Hutchins joins Mark to discuss guitar music from the early 21st century.
Brendan loves pop punk for its energy and reasons of nostalgia, and has lots of names to bring to the table. He also helps Mark define what isn’t pop punk.
Mark based his list on bands who had seminal or otherwise important albums during the early 2000s, and while Brendan’s picks are perhaps from slightly younger bands, none of them formed post-2005.
Mark shares stories about plectra, music he discovered through Kerrang! Radio, and stuff he used to play on his old radio show (like this from Of Kings and Captains).
Brendan also sings the praises of Bowling for Soup’s guitarist, who performs tricks with his pick!
Hear Brendan and his Nobody Asked for This co-host Arron Wong discuss the first part of this episode, director’s commentary style.
(00:00) - Introduction
(08:12) - Honourable mentions
(18:59) - Mark's pick: Sum 41
(20:49) - Brendan's pick: Goldfinger
(23:18) - Mark's pick: Green Day
(26:35) - Brendan's pick: Blink 182
(27:57) - Mark's pick: Bowling for Soup
(30:30) - Brendan's pick: Good Charlotte
(31:58) - Mark's pick: All-American Rejects
(32:47) - Brendan's pick: New Found Glory
(35:55) - Mark's pick: Fountains of Wayne
(37:29) - Brendan's pick: Sugarcult
(38:53) - Brendan makes another case for Goldfinger
Whether they cover an entire life or centre on a pivotal moment, biopics are often Oscar fodder, and are frequently conic. In this episode, Mark and podcaster and web developer Aaron Conway get straight down to business, ranking the best biopics around.
Mark gets political and data-visual with data visualisation expert, Alberto Cairo.
Alberto has a journalism degree and worked as a graphic designer for many years. He now teaches the subject, and quite literally wrote the book on it. Although a lot of what’s covered in this episode is US-centric, Alberto maintains that the misuse of graphics isn’t a partisan problem linked to whether someone’s in a blue state or a red state, but essentially that the right is guilty of bullshitting.
Bullshit is a word you’ll hear a lot in this episode, and especially refreshing in a Spanish accent. But in this context, it has a very specific meaning, with its roots in a book by Harry Frankfurt.
In Alberto’s latest book, How Charts Lie, he reminds us that “a chart shows only what it shows”, and nothing else.
(00:00) - Introduction
(09:34) - Alberto's pick: Choropleth map
(14:02) - Mark's pick: Omitting the baseline
(17:46) - Alberto's pick: Manipulation of line charts
(21:02) - Mark's pick: Distorting the X axis
(24:12) - Alberto's pick: Perspective effects
(26:14) - Mark's pick: Real-world objects as bars in a graph
(29:14) - Alberto's pick: Projection
(34:06) - Surveys
(38:30) - Alberto's pick: Sourcing of data
(43:46) - Mark's pick: Reversing the Y axis
(46:58) - A break along the axis of time
(48:16) - Building the final list
(51:08) - How Charts Lie
(56:08) - Goodbyes
In the discussion around Mark’s fourth pick — about 38 minutes in — Mark and Alberto discuss how the question of abortion is tackled within the US, in order to bias survey answers. They don’t get into the actual topic of abortion, but some of the language around it is a little bald.
Mark mentioned a move by the Lib Dems in 2019 that raised a few hackles online, which was covered in the Guardian.
We’ve got some half-priced cracked ice, codpieces, yellow coats and goldfish shoals nibbling at toes. That can mean only one thing – your podcast app is on the blink again.
Jon Bounds rejoins Mark to discuss their top-5 80s sitcoms from the UK. There is a very long long-list.
Mark talks vinyl and hunts down new music to enjoy, with music podcaster Elliott Farrar.
(00:00) - Introduction
(09:26) - Elliott's pick: Weird!, by Yungblud
(13:04) - Mark's pick: RTJ4, by Run the Jewels
(16:06) - Elliott's pick: Girlfriends, by Girlfriends
(20:00) - Mark's pick: Women in Music Pt III, by Haim
(21:24) - Elliott's pick: Grime MC, by Jme
(32:50) - Mark's pick: Letter to You, by Bruce Springstein
(36:30) - Elliott's pick: Fake it Flowers, by Beabadoobee
(39:46) - Mark's pick: Saint Cloud, by Waxahatchee
(42:50) - Elliott's pick: Foolish Loving Spaces, by Blossoms
(46:02) - Mark's pick: Shore, by Fleet Foxes
(50:30) - Turn over for Side B
(53:02) - Building the final list
(55:16) - Honourable mentions
(57:36) - The Scratched Record Podcast
Elliott is one half of the Scratched Record podcast, which you can find in all your usual podcast places, and which brings indie music artists out of the shadows and into your ears every Tuesday.
Just like every brand has a visual logo, every accomplished brand has an audio – or sonic – logo too. Everything from the Netflix “tudum” to the noise your computer makes when it starts up… even the cap on the bottle of soda; it’s all been designed to be memorable.
Professional voice actor Jodi Krangle joins Mark to discuss all things sonic branding, and to pick their combined top 5 list of sonic logos.
Comedy writer and performer Steve Dawson gets nerdy — but not really that nerdy — and talks about the culture and stereotypes around the word “geek”. But also there’s lots of stuff with lasers and electronic music.
(00:00) - Introduction
(06:58) - Steve's pick: Star Wars
(12:42) - Mark's pick: The Big Bang Theory
(19:26) - Steve's pick: Synthesisers
(26:32) - Steve's pick: Collections
(31:52) - Mark's pick: Game of Thrones
(40:16) - Steve's pick: Comic-Con
(46:26) - Mark's pick: Board games
(51:14) - Steve's pick: Knowing how to use gadgets
(58:46) - Recess
(01:00:40) - Building the final list
(01:02:40) - Goodbyes
Steve talks about the book Laughter, by Robert R Provine, which deals with in-group and out-group mentality, why we laugh and who we follow when we’re laughing, which comes into focus when we ask ourselves why certain things are cool to like, and other things just aren’t.
You can follow Steve on Twitter, and check out the work of the Dawson Bros (that’s Steve and his writing-partner brother), who have written for Ant & Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway, Walliams & Friend and Mitchell and Webb. You can — and simply must — also subscribe to the Mind Canyon podcast, a superb mix of improvised comedy and obsessive sound design.
Improv comedian and self-styled “failed jogger” Lucy Day joins Mark to relive their childhoods and complain about the toys they never had.
Both Mark and Lucy wanted a Mr Frosty but were denied one, and were both fans of the wonderful book and TV series The Animals of Farthing Wood. Mark nearly tells a story about showing a family member his organ (it’s fine), and Lucy reveals the toys that made her anxious as a child, namely Crocodile Dentist and Etch-a-Sketch.
Trigger warning: if you ever put on a show for your parents and they told you they were watching, they weren’t. Sorry. Also, it turns out that growing up isn’t about not being able to do anything you want, but about being able to do anything you want, but having to face the consequences.
The pair also compare the dogs they had. You can be the decider as to which one is best.
(00:00) - Introduction
(03:06) - Meeting Lucy
(05:37) - The toys we didn't have
(12:36) - Lucy's pick: Dressing-up box
(15:04) - Mark's pick: Karaoke machine and portable tape player
This week’s guest is Liam Barrington-Bush, a Bristol-based activist who helps organisations think more like people, and has loads of real-world experience of how people can govern themselves, build their own systems, and get closer to achieving what they want, without having those systems handed down to them.
After years of community activism and disillusionment with political systems, Liam discovered that people were capable of remarkable things when they weren’t being told what to do. Mark and Liam discuss the way the Internet has enabled or changed activism, but allowing information to spread to places that wouldn’t ordinarily be affected or invested. They also examine what happens after the dust has settled.
(00:00) - Introduction
(05:54) - Liam's pick: Argentine Occupy Factory movement
(20:50) - Mark's pick: Indignados movement
(24:10) - Liam's pick: People's uprising in Oaxaca, Mexico
(31:10) - Mark's pick: Singing Revolution
(37:02) - Liam's pick: Sweets Way regeneration
(43:52) - Mark's pick: Inner-London squatting in the 70s
(49:12) - Liam's pick: Rojava revolution
(54:58) - Mark's pick: Sous les pavés, la plage!
(56:36) - Liam's pick: Viome factory occupation
(01:02:10) - Mark's pick: Rage Against the Machine for Christmas #1
(01:04:26) - Au milieu de la discussion, la pause!
Mark speaks down-the-line with product designer, Simon Heap, as the two share their top five world-changing products, and gently collide over what can be construed a “product”.
Simon has dedicated his life to making, as he calls it, “a better mouse trap”, and now specialises in designing products for sport. You might know Simon’s work from Dragons’ Den, or perhaps you’ve bought his potato masher?
Simon once designed a CD player and argued for a sense of jeopardy within the mechanism (in the same way that there is a way to put a record on wrong), and Mark finds another member to join the ranks of those who mourn the passing of the MiniDisc. He also discovers that the Japanese may have the word he’s long searched for, to describe that wonderful sense of joy and satisfaction you get from a mechanical interaction: a good button, a sturdy spring or a crunchy click.
Mark and his guest Jamie Garner have snuck out of bed, crept downstairs and turned on the telly for a channel-hop through ‘90s nostalgia.
Both Mark and Jamie grew up with Saturday morning programming from the BBC, including /Going Live!/, /Live & Kicking/ and What’s Up Doc?, which showed cartoons and showcased some of the UK’s newest pop acts.
Mark does not pass up the opportunity to discuss the kids’ presenter Andy Crane, and the fact that he narrated one of his favourite children’s books. Incidentally, you can hear more about that book and MArk’s thoughts on it — and Andy Crane — on a recent episode of Your Own Words.
(00:00) - Introduction
(04:42) - Jamie's pick: Dungeons & Dragons
(07:24) - Mark's pick: Danger Mouse
(09:42) - Jamie's pick: ThunderCats
(16:06) - Mark's pick: Animaniacs
(21:52) - Jamie's pick: Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends
(26:32) - Mark's pick: Ox Tales
(30:24) - Jamie's pick: X-Men
(35:22) - Mark's pick: Count Duckula
(38:14) - Jamie's pick: Batman: The Animated Series
Whether they go “pew pew”, “what is this thing called ‘love’?” or “Give me your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle”, androids have, it turns out, been a staple of sci-fi films for a century.
This week, Ayesha Khan joins Mark to rank androids from sci-fi films.
(00:00) - Cold open
(00:19) - Introduction
(02:00) - What is an android?
(03:38) - Ayesha’s pick: The Terminator, from Terminator 2: Judgement Day
(07:32) - Mark’s pick: Marvin, from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
(10:29) - Ayesha’s pick: Ava, from Ex Machina
(13:16) - Mark’s pick: Ash, from Alien
(15:46) - Ayesha’s pick: Evil Maria, from Metropolis
(20:58) - Mark’s pick: The Terminator, from The Terminator
(24:33) - Ayesha’s pick: The Stepford Wives, from The Stepford Wives
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