Hard Fork (The New York Times)

This week, with the tech world in chaos over President Trump’s tariffs, we look at how four specific companies are navigating the new day-to-day reality. Then, the A.I. researcher Daniel Kokotajlo returns to the show to discuss a new set of predictions for how artificial intelligence could transform the world in just the next few years and how we avoid the most dystopian outcomes. Finally, we explore whether Meta cheated on an important A.I. benchmark with its new Llama model.

Guest:

• Daniel Kokotajlo, executive director of the AI Futures Project

Additional Reading: 

• Inside Trump’s Reversal on Tariffs: From ‘Be Cool!’ to ‘Getting Yippy’
• A.I. 2027
• Meta Gets Rebuked Over Benchmark Gaming

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This week Meta is on trial, in a landmark case over whether it illegally snuffed out competition when it acquired Instagram and WhatsApp. We discuss some of the most surprising revelations from old email messages made public as evidence in the case, and explain why we think the F.T.C.’s argument has gotten weaker in the years since the lawsuit was filed. Then we hear from Princeton computer scientist Arvind Narayanan on why he believes it will take decades, not years, for A.I. to transform society in the ways the big A.I. labs predict. And finally, what do dolphins, Katy Perry and A1 steak sauce have in common? They’re all important characters in our latest round of HatGPT.

Tickets to Hard Fork live are on sale now! See us June 24 at SFJAZZ.

Guest:

• Arvind Narayanan, director of the Center for Information Technology at Princeton and co-author of “AI Snake Oil: What Artificial Intelligence Can Do, What it Can’t, and How to Tell the Difference.”

Additional Reading:

• What if Mark Zuckerberg Had Not Bought Instagram and WhatsApp?
• AI as Normal Technology
• One Giant Stunt for Womankind

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Hosts Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore stories from the wild frontier of tech.

What’s real? What’s hype? “Hard Fork” is here to help you make sense of it. Tune in every Friday.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.