Fund the People: A Podcast with Rusty Stahl (Fund the People)

Season 5 of Fund the People Podcast is coming soon! We've got a great season ahead, and we'll be kicking it off with a series of 10 episodes called Rusty's Rants and Reflections - hot takes on where the nonprofit sector has been, where we are now, and what all this means for you. Then we're featuring one-on-one interviews with luminaries in the nonprofit field. Stay tuned!

In the third installment of our "Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy" series, Fund the People’s President and CEO Rusty Stahl discusses recent attacks on the nonprofit sector by the Trump Administration. He lifts up one recent example: an order to change to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. The administration's executive order would disqualify service at nonprofits or government agencies working on issues like immigrant rights, equity and inclusion, and LGBTQ rights from counting toward loan forgiveness, effectively targeting both workers in public service careers, and the communities they serve.

Stahl examines how these attacks are part of an integrated approach by the administration that simultaneously targets marginalized communities, government agencies, nonprofit organizations, and the First Amendment of the Constitution —undermining legal and civic infrastructure that has long enjoyed bipartisan support. He notes that this approach is more authoritarian than previous administrations as it not only scapegoats vulnerable populations but also attacks the platforms through which people organize and solve problems.

The podcast highlights the growing tension between nonprofits and philanthropic funders, with many foundations hesitant to speak out for fear of retaliation. Stahl acknowledges that some foundations like Robert Wood Johnson, Barr Foundation, and Public Welfare Foundation have issued strong statements, made emergency funds available, ir increased payout, but encourages more individual and collective action. 

He concludes by urging listeners to share stories of harm experienced by nonprofits through various data collection initiatives to help advocates and policymakers understand the real-world impact of these attacks.

Resources

National Council of Nonprofits

https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/form/effects-executive-actions-nonprofits 

Building Movement Project

bit.ly/bmp-np-survey

Chronicle of Philanthropy

https://www.philanthropy.com/article/is-trumps-second-term-affecting-your-nonprofit

Massachusetts Nonprofit Network and the Boston Foundation

https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/8186064/TBF 

North Carolina Center for Nonprofits 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1CyIwW5M9stso2uhLqxXYOIsZFCyc4_9qkIzHqt3pP5Y/viewform?edit_requested=true

Minnesota Council of Nonprofits 

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=sAFEEhMFb06lYlyGZA4tWfceH_gnu0pDhG07nKeU4opUQ0NaR1NXUDFRNDRXTU9NWEhDMk5DOFNSUS4u

One Voice Central Texas 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfvPDaZDzOQE_g3K7hYZvoMaO6-RYwD_HJNng0j12hG4ViKwQ/viewform 

Delaware Alliance for Nonprofit Advancement 

“Delaware Nonprofits and the Impact of “Executive Orders and Federal Policy Changes” (Report)

https://delawarenonprofit.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/DANA-Survey-on-EO-Impacts-on-DE-Nonprofits-FINAL.pdf

“Survey Reveals Delaware Nonprofits at Risk Due to Federal Funding Issues” (Press Release on Report)

https://delawarenonprofit.org/blog/federal-funding-freeze-impacts-on-nonprofits/

In this episode, you'll get concrete tips for ensuring that nonprofit workers have access to retirement savings from returning guest Chitra Aiyar of Just Futures. Chitra first joined us in Season 3 Episode 10 in December of 2022, when we discussed what's wrong with nonprofit retirement. Today we'll discuss what's right with retirement. 

This episode is focused on practical approaches for nonprofit employers to establish or enhance retirement savings for their staff team. We also talk about some of the challenges of implementing retirement savings in nonprofits.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠, a peer learning experience that provides capacity building, strategic resources, and a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

This episode offers a valuable, concrete opportunity for funders to collectively and individually support their grantee organizations and the nonprofit sector, and to break out of a period of general confusion, silence, and inaction. In this fourth installment of our bi-weekly “Defend Nonprofit, Defend Democracy” Series, host Rusty Stahl sits down in-person with Shaady Salehi, co-executive director of the Trust-Based Philanthropy Project. They discuss a new action pledge designed to unite philanthropic funders in support of nonprofits in this new political period of political attacks on nonprofits and philanthropy, fear of speaking out, destabilized government funding, and increasing demand on nonprofits. Shaady introduces the "Commitment for Trust-Based Action," a funder pledge developed by Trust-Based Philanthropy Project, Grantmakers for Effective Organizations, and the National Center for Family Philanthropy. The pledge outlines three key commitments: moving in solidarity with nonprofits; mobilizing money in a trust-based way; and nurturing possibility and innovation.

The conversation highlights how nonprofits are facing unprecedented challenges, with 90% reporting negative impacts from federal policies. Salehi emphasizes practical actions funders can take, including offering multiyear unrestricted funding, increasing grant budgets, simplifying application processes, and considering alternative funding structures like gifts instead of grants. She explains these recommendations were developed by listening directly to nonprofit leaders who reported feeling isolated and pulled in different directions by uncoordinated funder responses.

Salehi also discusses how this commitment addresses the need to resource nonprofit leaders' creativity and strategic thinking as they reimagine their work for a dramatically different future. She encourages foundations to support connection and convening among nonprofits and explore creative funding opportunities beyond traditional 501c3 structures. The initiative aims to create a united front for the social sector during turbulent times, with Salehi inviting both funders to sign on and nonprofits to share the commitment with their funders to start conversations.

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Bio

Shaady Salehi is the co-executive director of the Trust-Based Philanthropy Project, a 5-year learning and advocacy initiative to make trust-based practices the norm in the philanthropic sector. Throughout her career, Shaady has worked in various social sectors using strategic communications to galvanize coalitions, establish legacies, generate buy-in, and strengthen networks. Previously, Shaady was Managing Director of Distribution and Impact at ITVS, where she led a team to advance the reach and impact of documentaries on public television. Prior to ITVS, she was Executive Director of Active Voice, a pioneering organization that uses storytelling to catalyze social change. Shaady is a 2014 Aspen Institute Fellow and sits on the board of Let It Ripple, a nonprofit that experiments with collaborative filmmaking for the common good. She holds an M.S. in Strategic Communications from Columbia University, an M.A. in Anthropology from UC Davis, and a B.A. in Anthropology from Oberlin College.

Resources

Meet the Moment: A Call to Action for Philanthropy

CEP report: How U.S. Nonprofit Leaders Are Experiencing the Political Context

Trust-Based Philanthropy Project

Grantmakers for Effective Organizations

National Center for Family Philanthropy

Too often in our sector, nonprofit leaders are discussed as if we are walking, talking deficits -- empty vessels needing to be filled with competencies, skills, and knowledge. The truth is that the nonprofit workforce is one of the greatest assets available to our organizations, our funders, and our society! Despite all the challenges we face, nonprofit people are powerful, skilled, visionary, determined, and enduring. Our workforce is a significant part of our economy and our society. During Season One of this show, we want to acknowledge and celebrate the human strength in our sector as a baseline for discussing our challenges and the solutions to these challenges. So in this episode, we talk with one of the premier scholars on nonprofit employment and economics: Dr. Lester Salamon, Director of Johns Hopkins University’s Center for Civil Society Studies. Professor Salamon shares how he came to this unique research focus, and discusses the latest research on the strength and stability of nonprofit work, as well as initial estimates about the impact of the pandemic recession on nonprofit employment.

Listen in to hear more from Professor Salamon on:  

• His journey to becoming a scholar in the nonprofit sector, the evolution of 40 years of study
• The key findings from the latest report out of Johns Hopkins on the overall strength and stability of nonprofit work
• Initial estimates about the impact of the pandemic recession on nonprofit employment
• Data that supports nonprofits as a major contributor to employment in America, and to the quality of life in America.
  

Links Mentioned:

• 2020 Nonprofit Employment Report: The 3rd Largest Employer Faces the COVID-19 Crisis
• Dr. Lester Salamon Bio
• Johns Hopkins Center for Civil Society Studies
• Nonprofit Economic Data (“NED”) Project
• All Publications from NED Project (includes both national and state-focused reports)
• Nonprofit Works (an interactive database on nonprofit employment and wages)

It's been a long, hot summer, and we've been cooking up a delicious menu of alternatives to the nonprofit starvation cycle. We are back with a phenomenal Season 3, serving up episodes based on the 8 Principles of Talent-Investing. Grab your fork, dig in, and enjoy interviews with folks from foundations, nonprofits and intermediaries. Tune in for Season 3 of the Fund the People podcast on Wednesday, Sept. 7, and remember to keep your tank full, take care of yourself, and take care of one another.

In this episode, you'll get a free-wheeling, big picture view of how organized philanthropy does and does not address issues impacting the nonprofit workforce. Inside Philanthropy journalist Dawn Wolfe writes about how funding for living wages and other fundamental matters related to nonprofit staffing.

Why should we all be 'following the money'? Why should the hiring crisis not have come as a surprise to anybody? How are the sector's funding practices actually hurting the groups they are trying to help? Why do funders have incredible influence that they're not using right now? What can you do if you want to be a 'worker-friendly' funder? If a nonprofit speaks up about their challenges with grants, do they get labelled as problematic? We discuss these questions and more.

Resources:

Nonprofit Leaders Need a Break*

Nonprofit Employees are Burned Out*

Report on Trust in Civil Society Reveals Decline in Nonprofit Trust

NCN Report on Nonprofit Hiring Crisis 2023*

A Foundation Offers Some Relief to Exhausted Nonprofit Staff*

Nonprofit Homeless Response: Staff Struggle to Afford Housing*

Three Decades of Efforts to get Funders to Support the Real Costs of Nonprofits*

The Nonprofit Starvation Cycle

What Makes a Funder Worker-Friendly? Here's a Handy Report Card*

This Bay Area Grantmaker is Pushing for Good Nonprofit Jobs. Will Other Funders Take a Cue?

Crappy Funding Practices

Crappy Funding Practices Gives Nonprofit Professionals a Chance to Vent. It Might Also Make a Difference*

Guest Bio:

Dawn Wolfe returned to journalism in 2018 after a long time spent in the wilderness of nonprofit and small business communications consulting, where her experiences include ghostwriting a book on major gifts fundraising, writing speeches for a suicide-prevention conference, and coordinating events and raising sponsorship funds for a small foster children's charity. Prior to becoming a Staff Writer at Inside Philanthropy, Dawn covered LGBTQ issues for Michigan's Between The Lines, a wide range of topics as a paid freelancer at Daily Kos, and criminal justice problems and reform movements for The Appeal. She has studied Western European sword-fighting as a martial art, is passionate about strength training, and lives with her spouse and three rescue cats in Michigan.

**Please note the Inside Philanthropy articles are behind a paywall.

Links to these and more resources are found on our podcast's show notes page.

This episode offers a powerful example of how funders and nonprofits can collaborate and advocate to reform government contracting, so that it works better for the nonprofit sector and the nonprofit workforce.

You’ll learn how Mercedes Elizalde (Board member of the Nonprofit Association of Oregon), Felicita Monteblanco (Northwest Health Foundation) and others teamed up to advocate for state contracting reform, and how that resulted in them serving as members of the Governor’s Modernizing Grant Funding and Contracting Task Force.

Our powerful guests will help you gain an understanding of:

• How the nonprofit community can educate and influence our state governments;
• Advocacy strategies and tactics for influencing government; and
• Lessons-learned on the challenges and opportunities of legislative approaches to systems change.

Go to the page for this episode on our website for a transcript, links to the resources discussed in the episode, and speaker bios. Check out our library of past episodes and amazing guests on the podcast page on our website. You can also find our blog, toolkit, and other resources on the fundthepeople.org website⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠, a peer-learning experience for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠ to learn more!

In part as a result of the pandemic, more funders are paying attention to the needs and well-being of the people who work in grantee organizations. In this episode, we talk with Caroline Altman Smith, a grantmaker at The Kresge Foundation. The team at Kresge, a large international philanthropy, and their consultants at Community Wealth Partners, have developed a straightforward model for delivering professional development to mid-career grantee staff, with a focus on fueling skills and knowledge for racial equity. Through the program, they’ve also helped to build the marketplace of offerings for nonprofits that are interested in pursuing more talent and leadership development through a racial equity lens.

During the episode, we also discuss how to be a good program officer; how to be a good program officer working on racial equity while white; and some of the important academic programs in the sector for learning about philanthropy and good grantmaking.

In this episode, we offer a critique of a big idea that has led philanthropy and the nonprofit sector astray since 2006, and has negatively impacted our workforce. And I’m going to tell you how Fund the People has been challenging this idea and reframing the issue.

The Bridgespan Group is a major consulting firm serving foundations and nonprofits that was co-founded in 2000 by two Bain and Company executives. In the early days of 2006, Bridgespan caused a huge stir in the sector when they declared that there is a “deficit of leadership in the nonprofit sector.”

Their research suggested that when long-serving Baby Boomer executive directors retired, there would statistically not be enough Generation X to fill their seats. And, they said, with the number of nonprofits growing each year, the number of seats would keep getting bigger as the population to fill them got smaller.

The study was based on deficit thinking. And while it sought to encourage investment in nonprofit executives, it had all kinds of unintended consequences.

Resources:

• Bridgespan Group’s 2006 report The Nonprofit Sector’s Leadership Deficit
• Bridgespan Group’s 2015 article The Leadership Development Deficit
• Building Movement Project’s article The New Lifecycle of Work

This episode is part of our Rusty's Rants and Reflections series. The series offers Rusty's provocative reflections and ideas about investing in the nonprofit workforce. 

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

In this episode, you'll get a rare glimpse into the inside story of two people who have, together, gone through the unique crucible that is an executive transition.

Jane McDonnell is the former Executive Director of the Online News Association and is now an independent consultant. Irving Washington is the current Executive Director of the Online News Association, and a longtime association professional in the journalism field. Jane and Irving went through an executive transition in a thoughtful, proactive, ethical, and effective fashion, with respect for one another, for their colleagues, for their funders, and their organization. We all know that executive transitions are critical inflection points for organizations, and too many funders are not yet proactively investing in healthy transitions, and not supporting outgoing and incoming executive directors to succeed in the transition.

This episode is Part 2 of our mini-series on supporting new executive directors. It’s the companion to Episode 2, the previous episode, which was a conversation with Bipasha Ray and Joey Lee, former and current staff at Open Society Foundations. In that episode, we discussed OSF’s New Executives Fund, a program that supports new executive directors in nonprofits around the world, especially “historic firsts” in their organizations. (Irving participated in the OSF New Executives Fund. A few months after we recorded this interview, Irving announced that 2022 would be his last year with ONA, after six years as CEO and 11 years total of service to the organization.)

Here we explore Talent-Investing Principle #4: Talent justice is essential. This principle says that racism, sexism, classism, and other inequities are baked into the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce. Thus, the solution must advance intersectional racial equity. To hear all 8 Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Season 3 Episode 1. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our show notes page at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.

This episode is end-of-year inspiration – and it offers a bold new model for increasing investments in America’s nonprofit workforce.

In this episode, you’ll learn how a group of nonprofits showed elected leaders the essential value of the nonprofit human services workforce, and broke through malaise and noise to secure historic state and local government investments in nonprofit workers!

Host Rusty Stahl speaks with Michelle Jackson, Executive Director of Human Services Council of New York to get the story, the struggles, and important lessons-learned for funders, nonprofits, and associations.

We’ll hear the story of the #JustPay Campaign, which was initiated by the Human Services Council. Through this ongoing campaign, social workers and others have built solidarity with one another and flexed their collective power! It has gotten results. Successes include Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) increases in government contracts and other major financial investments in the nonprofit human services workforce.

The HSC has also been part of improving the way New York City government contracts with nonprofits to deliver social services, and how the City pays for “indirect” costs in these contracts. The effort to pay for “indirect” costs was also discussed from the NYC government perspective in Season 2 Episode 12 with Jennifer Geiling.

This final interview of Season 3 explores Talent-Investing Principle #3, “Address the Problem, Not Just the Symptoms.” The historic successes discussed in this episode cut to the heart of how nonprofits can work together to end the starvation cycle and begin a healthy new cycle of talent-investing. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

In this illuminating episode of the Fund The People podcast, Geoff Green, CEO of the California Association of Nonprofits (CalNonprofits), provides a masterclass on the economic and political power of California's nonprofit sector. Green explains how nonprofits, as the fourth-largest employer in California with 1.2 million workers, are often tasked with addressing the "externalized costs" of both business and government - from poverty wages to environmental degradation - yet are chronically underfunded and undervalued in policy discussions.

The conversation delves into the critical challenges facing nonprofit workers, including delayed government payments, inadequate overhead rates, and the fact that 22% of nonprofit workers struggle to make ends meet. Green discusses CalNonprofits' legislative efforts to reform government contracting and shares a promising new Los Angeles initiative that ensures wage equity across public, private, and nonprofit sectors. He emphasizes that for every $20 of public expenditure, there is only $1 of charitable funding - highlighting why nonprofits must build political power to influence how public dollars are spent rather than simply providing services on the cheap.

Key Points:

Learn why nonprofits are California's fourth-largest employer and how they're transforming their economic power into political influence

Discover why "working on the cheap" hurts both nonprofit workers and the communities they serve

Get an insider's perspective on recent legislative wins and ongoing battles to reform government contracting with nonprofits

Understand the complex relationship between labor unions and nonprofits, and innovative solutions for wage equity across sectors

Hear about new research showing how Trump-era tax changes resulted in $20 billion less in charitable giving, and what this means for the sector.

Bio:

Geoff Green is CEO of the California Association of Nonprofits (CalNonprofits), a statewide policy alliance of more than 10,000 nonprofits speaking to government, philanthropy, and the public at large.
A long-time CalNonprofits board member, Geoff previously served as CEO of the Santa Barbara City College Foundation. With more than 25 years of experience in the nonprofit sector, he has worked on a wide variety of issues including affordable housing, access to education, racial equity, and environmental protection.
Under Green’s nine years of leadership, the SBCC Foundation raised over $50 million to support student success programs. In 2016 he led the creation of the SBCC Promise, a groundbreaking initiative that offers all recent, local high school graduates the opportunity to attend college full-time at no cost.
You can reach Geoff by email: Geoffg[at]calnonprofits[dot]org.

Resources:

NONPROFIT WORKFORCE:

ALICE in the Nonprofit Workforce (2024) 

GENERAL PHILANTHROPY / NONPROFIT DATA:

CalNonprofits "Causes Count" Study (2019)

2024 Giving USA Report Summary

2024 Giving USA Infographic

TAX ISSUES:

"How the 2017 Tax Law Made Itemized Charitable Giving a Luxury Good" by the American Enterprise Institute (2024)

National Council of Nonprofits (NCN) Tax Policy Proposal (Oct 2024)

DONOR ADVISED FUNDS:

CA Attorney General Survey of Donor Advised Funds: (from 2021)

DAF Research Collaborative Report: (released February 15, 2024)

National Philanthropic Trust (NPT) 2023 DAF Report: (released November 14, 2023)

Podcast episode with Jan Masaoka, former CEO of CalNonprofits

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠.

Now more than ever, society needs nonprofit leaders to break out of restrictions and claim our place in this world. We talk with consultant Nell Edgington about her new book, “Reinventing Social Change: Embrace Abundance to Create a Healthier and More Equitable World.” Nell challenges us to embrace abundance and power as nonprofit leaders. We discuss getting into our “zones of excellence”, kissing scarcity goodbye, and other helpful concepts to transform nonprofit work.

It’s the season finale and the end of 2021! To wrap up our season 2 exploration of talent-investing, Rusty shares his top three takeaways from these 16 episodes. He also shares a cool new feature of our show: Podcast Collections. And we welcome back friend-of-the-show Monisha Kapila for some holiday schmoozing and reflection on the Talent Matters Remix, the special three-part series that was a prominent part of this season.

The Fund the People podcast will return in Spring 2022. We wish you all happy holidays and a safe, healthy, and joyous new year!

In this episode, Rusty discusses how fear freezes talent-investing, and how fear is a factor for both leaders in both nonprofits and foundations. For example, many nonprofits fear losing funding if they expose the challenges they face in supporting their staff. And many funders fear that their grantees may become too reliant on them for staffing costs. If and when we can alleviate these fears, we can unlock new momentum for talent-investing and talent justice.

This episode is part of our Rusty's Rants and Reflections series. The series offers Rusty's provocative reflections and ideas about investing in the nonprofit workforce.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

In this episode, we examine The Resilience Initiative, a model of foundation-initiated capacity-building work on behalf of grantee organizations that has sought to help progressive nonprofits tackle the mounting political, economic, and health crises that have impacted organizations in recent years. 

The Resilience Initiative has developed a highly-responsive approach that is increasingly focused on the well-being of nonprofit people and organizations. You’ll hear from the two top-notch consultants who have consecutively led this effort - Janet Nami McIntyre and her predecessor Paula Morris.

This episode explores practices of talent-investing that relate to the key concept of Responsiveness. These practices are: Ask and Respond; Go All-In; and Offer Custom Solutions. To learn about the Eight Practices of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. All resources and links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

Burnout is a chronic condition in nonprofits. Right now, it’s at an acute level after the years of trauma we’ve been experiencing. And burnout has a compounding impact on people who are dealing with marginalization. Yet burnout is often something we suffer in isolation, in silence, and in an individual fashion – as if it's not an organizational or collective concern.

In this episode, you'll gain a first-hand perspective on burnout from Dany Sigwalt, the outgoing nonprofit executive director of Power Shift Network, and you’ll get tangible ideas for how to address the burnout crisis in our sector. Dany discusses her experience and ideas, and provides some fundamental suggestions for change.

Dany wrote a refreshing article published in YES Magazine called, “How to Prevent Burnout Among Black Movement Leaders.” It’s a vulnerable, first-person narrative of burnout, as well as an analysis of the current burnout crisis in terms of its organizational, racial, and philanthropic dimensions.

This episode (S3:E7) explores Talent-Investing Principle #4: Advance Talent Justice. Racism, sexism, classism, and other inequities are baked into the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce. Thus, the solution must advance intersectional racial equity. To learn about the Eight Guiding Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

In this episode, you’ll get an insider’s view of The Annie E. Casey Foundation’s journey to contribute to the full costs of grantees in an adequate and equitable fashion. Our guest is Katie Tetrault, the Foundation’s Vice President of Finance and Grants Management. Tetrault manages all of the Foundation’s budgeting, accounting, financial, and grantmaking policies and operations. Katie shares how and why the Foundation’s recently changed from paying only 10% toward “indirect costs” on project and program grants, and why they created a three-tiered policy that now pays up to 25%.

This is the third installment of Smashing the Overhead Myth Once and for All, an ongoing special series throughout Season 4! You can find all the episodes in this series in this Spotify playlist. Go to the ⁠Show Notes Page⁠ on our website for a transcript of this episode, links to the resources discussed in the episode, guest bio, and more. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠fundthepeople.org⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.

In today's episode, you'll learn strategies and practical tips for creating happy, healthy, nonprofit workers and workplaces. Our guest Beth Kanter is a leading expert on nonprofit technology and she is co-author of the book Happy, Healthy Nonprofit: Strategies for Impact Without Burnout. You'll learn about tangible tools for preventing burnout at the individual and organizational levels, and learn what is available in her book. We discuss why she wrote the book, how nonprofit wellbeing has changed over the six years since it was published, and what she would write differently if she were writing the book today. We discuss the question: Can better salaries make us less burnout? Beth offers her advice for how artificial intelligence can become part of wellness in nonprofits. And much more!

Go to our website for a transcript of the episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. While you’re there, browse our library of amazing guests and conversations from Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. You can find the podcast, our blog, free tools, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

In this episode, you’ll learn about four myths that shape attitudes and behaviors which keep funders from investing in nonprofit workers.

This episode, which is based on the Soft Stuff Doesn’t Have to be Hard article, is part of our Rusty's Rants and Reflections series. The series offers Rusty's provocative reflections and ideas about investing in the nonprofit workforce.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

This season, our podcast is exploring the state of the nonprofit workforce, and the chronic and current challenges it faces. In Episode 3, Rusty sits down with Frances Kunreuther and Sean Thomas-Breitfeld, two of the most brilliant thinkers in the field, to discuss their research on the racial and inter-generational barriers facing nonprofit leaders.

Listen in to hear more about:

• Frances Kunreuther and Sean Thomas-Breitfeld
• Building Movement Project
• messages and findings of Race to Lead Revisited report
• the need for healthy generational change and transitions in nonprofit
• how generational change and racial equity (along with gender, sexuality, class, etc.) interact in the nonprofit workforce
• how investments can and should help organizations to address them together
  

Resource Links:

• Building Movement Project website
• Race to Lead website
• Race to Lead Revisited report
• Race to Lead Report on Executive Directors (based on 2016 data)
• Structuring Leadership Report (on alternative models)
• The Leadership in Leaving report
  

How are nonprofits surviving in today's challenging political climate? What happens when government funding freezes threaten essential services? How are state nonprofit associations becoming the backbone of sector defense?

In this thought-provoking installment of Fund the People’s "Defend Nonprofits Defend Democracy" series, host Rusty Stahl engages in a candid conversation with Nonoko Sato, President and CEO of the Minnesota Council of Nonprofits (MCN). They discuss the critical challenges facing nonprofits under the Trump Administration.

What does it look like when nonprofits and foundations unite to protect vulnerable communities? How can organizations navigate uncertain policies while staying true to their values? And, most importantly, where can we find hope and resilience in a time when the sector itself is under attack?

Whether you're a nonprofit leader seeking practical insights, a funder considering how to respond effectively, or another infrastructure group in the field, this episode offers valuable perspective on defending democracy through a strong, united nonprofit sector.

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Nonoko Sato Bio:

Nonoko Sato is the president and CEO for the Minnesota Council of Nonprofits, the largest state association for nonprofits in the United States. She oversees MCN’s strategic response to organizational and sector challenges through public policy and advocacy, responsive and educational programming, and sector-wide research.

Nonoko serves or has served in a variety of advisory, board, and trustee roles, including Governor Walz’s Council on Economic Expansion, Equity Diversity Impact Assessment Committee of the Minneapolis Public Schools, Coalition of Asian American Leaders, Theater Mu, Carleton College, among others. She previously served as MCN’s associate director, overseeing internal operations, programming, finance, and administration, as well as launching BenefitsMN, an association health plan for nonprofit organizations that strives to increase the vitality of Minnesota nonprofits through access to affordable and sustainable healthcare.

Prior to these roles, Nonoko served as the executive director of an organization that champions educational equity by supporting students in overcoming systemic barriers on their journey to a college degree. Under her leadership, the organization tripled the number of students and expanded its services through high school. In all her roles, Nonoko is dedicated to enhancing and improving cultural humility, intentionally creating inclusive and accessible spaces, and working to end disparities in power, money, access, and resources.

Resources:

Minnesota Council of Nonprofits

National Council of Nonprofits

Map of Place-Based Nonprofit Associations in the U.S.

We are in the nonprofit sector’s season of giving, but we’re going counter-culture. This episode is all about nonprofit saving. Specifically, nonprofit workers saving for retirement.

In this episode, you'll learn why it's critical for funders, nonprofits, and nonprofit workers alike to invest in retirement savings. You’ll hear the surprising political history of nonprofit retirement; how retirement policies can bolster racial and class inclusion in nonprofit teams; and the four major gaps facing nonprofit retirement.

Rusty speaks with Chitra Aiyar, nonprofit tax expert, consultant, and author of a new report on nonprofit retirement. The report is a publication of Just Futures, a new initiative to provide an all-in-one 401(k) solution tailored for the social justice-minded nonprofit workforce.

This episode explores Talent-Investing Principle #5: Take a Supportive Stance. This principle is all about demonstrating the intention to enable organizations to invest in staff, not to punish them if they are unable to fully support and develop staff. 

To learn about the Eight Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

In this second installment of our series, Smashing the Overhead Myth Ones and For All, you’ll get an insider’s view of how things are changing inside the Ford Foundation, one of the largest private funders in the world, as their team seeks to provide more equitable and effective grants to the organizations they support in the U.S. and around the world.

Our guests today are the ones making challenging operational decisions, guiding changes to organizational policy, practice and culture, and executing important internal change management at the Ford Foundation.

Tiffanie De Gannes is Senior Manager of Operations at Ford Foundation. She serves as lead on complex projects and initiatives, as well as bridging the gap between operations and program teams to ensure alignment on organizational priorities.

Jim Gallagher is Director of Grants Management at the Foundation, where he oversees Ford’s grant managers in the US and around the world. Jim has 20+ years of nonprofit and philanthropic management experience and expertise in domestic and international grantmaking, organizational capacity building, financial planning, team building, and systems implementation. 

Tiffanie and Jim were both part of the Ford Foundation team engaged in the Funders for Real Cost, Real Change learning collaborative. We spoke at length about that effort In the first installment of this series, Season 4 Episode 3 with Rodney Christopher. If you want to go in order, pause this episode, listen to Season 4 Episode 3, then start this one again.

This episode touches on the practices of talent-investing related to Respect and Root Causes – Respecting nonprofit workers and addressing the Root Causes of the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce. To learn about the Eight Practices of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

Over half of mid-level nonprofit staff in Western New York State don’t make enough to support themselves or their families. This number grows to 68% for those who work at nonprofits with budgets of less than a million dollars. This is one of many powerful findings in new research about the wellbeing of the nonprofit workforce. How does it relate to what’s happening in your nonprofit community?

In this episode, you’ll get important new data on the health of the nonprofit workforce. Drawn from the survey responses of over 700 local nonprofit workers, interviews, and focus groups in Western New York State, the research reinforces what many across the country already know - that the lack of investment in nonprofit compensation, HR, and other staff support systems is an existential and growing threat to the sector.

We’re joined by Todd Butler, CEO of Causewave Community Partners, and Caitlin Fisher, who leads Causewave’s Nonprofit Talent Pipeline Project. Go to the Show Notes Page on our website for a transcript of the episode, links to the resources discussed in the episode, guest bio, and more. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

In this episode, we speak with Jan Masaoka, CEO of California Association of Nonprofits (CalNonprofits), and one of the most respected and outspoken organizers, advocates, authors, and capacity-builders in the nonprofit sector.

Jan recently announced her departure from CalNonprofits, and she shares sage wisdom (and rage!) on a range of issues including advocating for a better relationship between government and nonprofits, addressing the “overhead” myth, funding full costs, dealing with nonprofit student debt, the impact of government contracting on nonprofit compensation, and more.

The conversation touches on multiple practices of talent-investing, including:

• Practice 1: Lead with Respect
• Practice 3: Build People-Systems
• Practice 8: Share the Value

To learn about the Eight Practices of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

This episode discusses key trends and emerging practices that are sweeping across the funding community. It highlights the glaring gap in these important ideas and practices, and how talent-investing could add value to these ideas.

Go to the episode page on our podcast page fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠ to listen and get a transcript of this episode.

We invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests and episodes of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠.

You can also fund our blog, toolkit, sign up for our mailing list, and get other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠.

In this episode, Rusty talks with Kathy Reich, who works at the Ford Foundation, and previously worked at the David and Lucile Packard Foundation. They discuss how, in each foundation, Kathy discovered the need to provide support to the staff of grantee organizations.

Listen in to hear more about:

• Kathy’s journey in philanthropy and the non-profit workforce
  
• What changed Kathy’s practices as a funder
  
• Lessons learned with the David and Lucile Packard Foundation and impact on talent investing initiatives
  
• The Values of Listening Deeply and more
  
• Building trust and building relationships around the world with Ford Foundation and the BUILD program
  

Links Mentioned:

Community Leadership Project

BUILD

Moving the Ford Foundation Forward - Blog By Darren Walker

Organizational Assessment Tool

Kathy’s Bio:

Kathy Reich leads the Ford Foundation’s BUILD initiative, a 6-year, $1 billion effort to strengthen key social justice institutions around the world. BUILD is an essential part of the foundation’s strategy to reduce inequality, a strategy arising from the conviction that healthy civil society organizations are essential to driving and sustaining just, inclusive societies.

Before joining Ford in 2016, Kathy was director of organizational effectiveness and philanthropy at the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, where she led a cross-cutting program to help grantees around the world strengthen their strategy, leadership and impact. Previously she had served at the Packard Foundation as policy analyst and program officer. Prior to that, she was policy director at the Social Policy Action Network, served as a legislative assistant on Capitol Hill, and worked for state and local elected officials in California.

Kathy currently chairs the board of Grantmakers for Effective Organizations (GEO). She was selected as a Schusterman Fellow in 2016.

This episode kicks off the fabulous third season of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl.

To get the season started, Rusty establishes the theme: the 8 Principles of Talent-Investing. He shares guiding principles from “Funding that Works,” the exciting new framework for talent-investing that Fund the People will roll-out in 2023 through our new online Academy. The principles offer the intellectual groundwork upon which effective talent-investing practices can be built.

Is student debt haunting your nonprofit career?
Is the specter of student loans looming over people in your organization, or your colleagues elsewhere?
Are you an HR person helping nonprofit workers navigate the harrowing nature of debt?

Luckily, you don’t need an exorcist to get rid of that debt! It can be wiped away through the federal government's Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Progam. Now through Halloween (October 31, 2022), they’re making the process (and likelihood of forgiveness) much easier by waiving unhelpful rules and bureaucracy that have dogged the program for years.

In this time-sensitive bonus episode, you’ll learn exactly what you or your colleagues need to do before the end of this month to wipe out your student debt. Rusty sits down with Aoife Delargy Lowe, an expert on the topic who provides staff leadership for the PSLF Coalition, an alliance of nonprofits that has been advocating for improvements to the program since 2017.

In addition to three specific steps you can take and specific websites you can use, you’ll also learn about the history of the coalition and what the future may hold for the PSLF program beyond this month.

Listen today and share this episode with your networks!

All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our show notes page from the episode or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of our podcast and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

2022 has come to an end, and we’ve also reached the end of Season 3 of the Fund the People Podcast. So we’ve got a nice finale to wrap things up with a bow for you!

In this solo episode, Rusty Stahl recaps the theme of Season 3 – the 8 Principles of Talent-Investing – and summarizes the key ideas covered in his conversations with amazing guests throughout the season. This season finale offers a nice succinct guide to the guests and topics covered this year.

We’ll be back in March with a new season, and we’ll offer even more practical, nutritious alternatives to the nonprofit starvation cycle.

Thank you for listening – we look forward to talking with you in 2023!

Today's episode offers a view into how foundation executives can integrate talent-investing deeply into their philanthropic approach and how they can work with grantees in a practical fashion to ensure that they are motivated, incentivized and have the funding they need to pay appropriate thriving wages. This is the second in our special three-part series based on Fund the People's presentation at the Center for Effective Philanthropy Conference in Fall of 2023. Our session focused on how funders can support nonprofit workers in the age of burnout. 

Today, we're talking with Jennifer Roller of The Raymond John Wean Foundation. Each episode in the series documents a unique and important approach to talent-investing.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠Loftis Partners⁠. They've launched the ⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠, a peer learning experience that provides capacity building, strategic resources, and a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠payequitycollective.com⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

In this episode, we speak with Monisha Kapila, the founder and CEO of ProInspire. ProInspire helps individuals and organizations achieve their potential for social impact. Monisha brings 15 years of experience in the business and nonprofit sectors. Prior to launching ProInspire, she was a Senior Business Manager for Capital One Financial Corporation. Previously, she was a Harvard Business School Leadership Fellow with ACCION International, a pioneer in the commercial approach to microfinance. Monisha has worked with a number of leading non-profit organizations throughout her career, including CARE, the Initiative for a Competitive Inner City, and the Clinton Foundation. She began her career as a consultant with Arthur Andersen. Monisha has an MBA from Harvard Business School, where she was the recipient of the Dean’s Award, and a BBA with distinction from the University of Michigan. She received her Certificate in Leadership Coaching from Georgetown University.

Listen in to hear more about: 

• Monisha’s personal journey and experience leading up to creating ProInspire
• ProInspire’s mission to break systemic barriers to supporting staff, centering diversity, and building organizational cultures that prioritize equity in the non-profit sector
• The importance of a mindset shift from non-profits being a charity to being essential change agents and social justice leaders
• Activating leaders at all levels to accelerate equity at the individual, organizational, and systems levels
• What’s next for ProInspire
  

Website: https://www.proinspire.org/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ProInspire/

Twitter: @ProInspire

So many nonprofits right now are experiencing challenges with recruitment, burnout, retention, and internal conflict around issues of equity and compensation. Sometimes we don’t know where to start. Sometimes we don’t have a vision for where to go on these issues. So we’ve got an important, helpful, and mind-expanding conversation for you today.

The brilliant consultant and thought-leader Mala Nagarajan returns to our podcast to share six practices that nonprofits can use to de-link privilege (or, on the other side of the coin, marginalization) from salaries, and reconstruct compensation in a way that is more equitable than it has traditionally been in our sector.

These practices are drawn from the Compensation Scale Equity Process and Calculator™ developed by Vega Mala Consulting, of which our guest is Cofounder and Principal. We introduce this resource in the episode, and discuss how nonprofits and other consultants can utilize it. We also discuss what nonprofits can do right away even if they are unable to work with consultants to address equity in their compensation structure.

From Fund the People’s 8 Practices of Talent-Investing, this episode explores Practice #2: Lead with Respect, Practice #3: Build People-Systems, and Practice #4: Advance Talent Justice. To learn about these, and all 8 Practices of Talent-Investing, listen to Season 4 Episode 1.

Go to the Show Notes Page on our website for a transcript of the episode, links to the resources discussed in the episode, guest bio, and more. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org

To hear Mala’s previous appearance on the show, listen to Season 3 Episode 9, where she discusses what it means for nonprofits to develop a “compensation philosophy.”

In this episode, we explore the need for investment in healthy executive transitions in the nonprofit workforce. Rusty talks with Tom Adams, a retired (but active) consultant who worked with funders to help establish the practice of “executive transition management” consulting in the nonprofit sector. We discuss issues of racial equity, generational change, building leaderful organizations, and what it means to retire from nonprofit careers.

Show Notes:

• Tom’s personal journey in the sector and how he came to focus on executive transitions and creating equity in the system
• Business model and framework that was developed over time that focused on founders and long term executives and the biggest barriers faced
• Tom’s personal journey of executive transition and into retirement
• Current projects making diversity and racial challenges the central focus
• Tom's Book, The Nonprofit Leadership Transition and Development Guide (2010) 
• And more…
  

Links Mentioned in Episode: 

• Tom Adams website and blog
• The Nonprofit Leadership Transition and Development Guide (book by Tom Adams, 2010)
• The Evolution of Executive Transition and Allied Practices: A Call for Service Integration (paper by Tom Adams, 2017)
• Transitions: Making Sense of Life’s Changes (book by William Bridges, 2004)

Movement Talent was launched in 2020 to introduce a new way of finding, supporting, and maximizing talent for social justice organizations in the U.S. In this episode, Rusty speaks with its founder, Linda Nguyen, about the ways they have been working towards a more collaborative, equitable, holistic, and efficient approach to talent in progressive social movements.

The conversation covers Movement Talent’s role as a support system at the organizational level, and at the individual level as well. Also, and probably most importantly, they discuss the new effort’s work as a “membrane”, which looks to promote cross-learning on talent-related issues amongst organizations with the belief that they can fortify one another as an ecosystem. 

Other topics discussed:

• The needs Movement Talent seeks to address.
• Benefits of investing in “people-systems” internally within organizations and externally in the ecosystem in which organizations operate.
• Movement Talent’s accountability to social, racial, gender, economic, and environmental justice.

See more about Linda and get access to all links and resources mentioned on the show at fundthepeople.org 

This episode exposes the insane double standard between how staff costs are treated in private foundation budgets, and how staff costs are treated in nonprofit budgets and the grants that support them. 

If you want to understand why private foundations are expected to pay great salaries and benefits, while public charities are expected to compensate with poverty wages, this episode succinctly explains the legal underpinnings of this difference. 

The double standard must be at the center of our conversations about “full costs,” the “overhead” myth, and “direct” versus “indirect” costs. 

To start that conversation, I offer a radical proposal for how to address the double standard! Take a listen and let me know what you think.

This episode is part of our Rusty's Rants and Reflections series. The series offers Rusty's provocative reflections and ideas about investing in the nonprofit workforce.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

In our Season 6 finale episode, we mark Fund the People's 10th anniversary by launching our new initiative: the Funding that Works Academy. This new professional development platform equips funders, nonprofits, and intermediaries with the ideas and tools needed to provide effective funding solutions that advance good nonprofit jobs, and the wellbeing and sustainability of those working in nonprofits.

The Academy was designed to help grant makers and fundraisers move philanthropic money in a way that supports and develops nonprofit leaders and workers. With the Funding that Works Academy courses, you'll learn about the challenges facing our sector in a new way so that you can craft interventions that will address the real problem. Dive into the theory and practice of talent-investing, ensuring that grantmaking and fundraising efforts prioritize people and their pivotal role within the social sector.

Our inaugural course is designed for foundation professionals and other types of grantmakers. Future offerings will be tailored to foundation trustees, nonprofit professionals, board members, and individuals in intermediary roles like consultancies, higher education, and associations.

To learn about the Academy, visit fundingthatworks.org. To view current and future courses, and sign up to be notified when new courses are available, visit our Shop: bit.ly/fundingthatworksshop. You can also find our Academy, podcast, blog, toolkit, Staffing the Mission, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 

Season 6 was sponsored by Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Thank you for your listenership and interest in Fund the People and the Funding that Works Academy. We will talk to you again in Season 7 starting in September 2024.

This is the first episode of Talent Matters Remix, our three-episode series in partnership with ProInspire, co-hosted by Monisha Kapila and Rusty Stahl.

In this episode, Monisha and Rusty talk with Trish Tchume about the tensions between developing individual leaders, and developing networks or communities of leaders. Trish reflects on the article she wrote about network-weaving for the Talent Matters blog series in Stanford Social Innovation Review. She discusses how her experience and thinking has evolved since the piece was published seven years ago in July 2014.

We also discuss Trish’s extensive journey through the nonprofit sector, including her work at Robert Sterling Clark Foundation, Community Change, Young Nonprofit Professionals Network (where she was the first national director), Building Movement Project, and Idealist.org. Other topics discussed:

• Building organizational networks for social justice
• Supporting BIPOC leaders
• Supporting young people in nonprofit and social change careers
• What are you learning from working at a foundation?
• Thoughts on social capital and networks during the pandemic and Trump era
  

We’re partnering with ProInspire to bring you this 3-part series of episodes on the Fund the People Podcast. Talent Matters Remix, which will be released throughout July, will revisit Talent Matters, a 2014 series of essays on the Stanford Social Innovation Review (SSIR) blog. These special episodes will be co-hosted by yours truly and Monisha Kapila, ProInspire Founder and Co-CEO. Monisha helped to curate and write the Talent Matters blog series, and our conversations will feature three of the other authors of those posts.

A lot has changed in our society in the seven years since 2014, when those blog posts appeared. We’ve had seismic changes in our politics, economy, society, and the nonprofit sector and philanthropy. It’s time to revisit, reflect, and remix it!

All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found at fundthepeople.org/podcast.

Welcome to the first installment of our special series, “Smashing the Overhead Myth – Once and For All.” 

In this episode, we hear the story of Funders for Real Costs, Real Change, a learning collaborative among a dozen funders who sought to better understand how they could do their part to end the nonprofit starvation cycle. These funders examined the realities of overhead and indirect costs in their grants and grantee organizations – and some are making major changes as a result.

Our guest is Rodney Christopher from BDO. With 30 years of consulting and grantmaking experience in the nonprofit and philanthropic community, Rodney was instrumental in facilitating the Funders for Real Costs, Real Change.

Our series, “Smashing the Overhead Myth – Once and For All” will profile major funders who are changing their priorities to enable grantees to cover their actual costs – including the real costs of supporting and developing a staff team. Throughout the series, we’ll explore the Practices of Talent-Investing related to Respect and Root Causes – respecting nonprofit workers, and addressing the root causes of the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce.

To learn about the Eight Practices of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

Arum Lee Lansel, founder of ALL-in 4 Impact, shares her unique career journey from fashion design to international development, philanthropy, and venture capital. Driven by her immigrant family's experience and desire to create more equity, she has developed a deep understanding of how organizations can better support their employees. Her perspective bridges the worlds of venture capital and nonprofit sectors, highlighting the critical importance of investing in talent.

Drawing from her experiences at the Packard Foundation, and at the venture capital firm General Catalyst, Arum discusses the key lessons that philanthropy can learn from venture capital, particularly the emphasis on investing in people as the primary driver of organizational success. She introduces her "Thrive" model, a practical framework for nonprofit leaders to systematically improve their workplace environment, which consists of three levels: stabilize (basic compliance), support (creating conditions for best work), and sustain (building a culture of innovation and well-being).

In the episode, Arum argues that funders and nonprofit leaders must recognize that the success of their mission depends directly on the health, engagement, and development of their employees. By providing resources, creating supportive structures, and giving staff space to breathe and innovate, organizations can dramatically improve their impact and effectiveness.

Key Takeaways:

• Nonprofit success is fundamentally tied to investing in and supporting staff, not just program outputs.
• The "Thrive" model provides a structured approach for nonprofits to progressively improve their workplace environment.
• Funders should view staff investment as a critical strategy for maximizing organizational impact, similar to venture capital's approach.
• Creating "space to breathe" for nonprofit workers is a form of equity and resource allocation that enables innovation and sustainability.
• Small nonprofits can start improving their workplace with affordable, targeted interventions, even without a full-time HR staff.

Bio:

Arum Lee Lansel is an accomplished leader with two decades of experience in the nonprofit, philanthropy, international development, and venture capital sectors.

Arum’s journey has taken her through vastly different work cultures and operating environments. Formerly she was Vice President of Learning & Development at General Catalyst, a leading venture capital firm with over $32 billion in assets under management. At GC she served as an HR leader where she led change management, shaped the culture, and designed employee development and performance management systems using a growth-mindset lens. She is certified in Employee Relations & Investigations and has led many trainings and facilitated tough conversations. Arum designed and spearheaded GC’s first racial equity initiative and helped GC become a DEI leader within the VC industry.

Arum led program operations at the David and Lucile Packard Foundation. She worked with nonprofits across the globe to support their organizational effectiveness and designed capacity building strategies. She helped shape the organizational effectiveness team’s theory of change and designed and led monitoring, evaluation, and learning strategies. Arum was also a core member of the initial funder collaborative of several large foundations working to combat the “nonprofit starvation cycle” and encourage funders to give unrestricted grants and pay for the real, indirect costs nonprofits incur to fulfill their mission.

Resources:

ALL-in 4 Impact

Arum@allin4impact.com

Arum Lansel on LinkedIn

Buying vs Building 

Talent-value chain document in FTP Toolkit

Jamaica Maxwell podcast episode

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

In this episode, host Rusty Stahl welcomes Loretta Turner, founder of Do Good Leadership Collective, for an insightful conversation about nonprofit wellbeing in challenging times. Loretta shares her journey from yoga instructor to nonprofit leader to wellbeing coach and consultant. She discusses how her personal experience with burnout and receiving nonprofit services after losing her home shaped her mission to help social impact professionals "do good and be well." She offers a multidimensional view of wellbeing that goes beyond surface-level solutions like yoga classes or team-building activities, advocating instead for comprehensive approaches that include equitable pay, robust benefits, mental health support, and sustainable organizational cultures.

Listeners will gain valuable insights into what Loretta calls the "nonprofit zones of delusion" - harmful mindsets like savior complexes, scarcity thinking, and the glorification of burnout that plague the sector. The conversation explores how nonprofit professionals have been conditioned to "do more with less," making them uniquely equipped to face current challenges while emphasizing the critical importance of rest and resilience. Loretta also discusses how funders can meaningfully invest in wellbeing by moving beyond one-off grants to supporting sustainable organizational cultures where wellbeing is integrated into strategic planning.

This timely episode offers both practical wisdom and inspiration for nonprofit leaders navigating an era of attacks on the sector. Loretta explains her involvement with the Talent Justice movement and shares exciting initiatives from Do Good Leadership Collective, including monthly "slowdown events" in San Diego and the development of a coaching collective specifically for nonprofit professionals. Whether you're experiencing burnout, looking to create a more supportive organizational culture, or seeking to fund wellbeing effectively, this conversation provides frameworks and strategies to help social impact professionals not just survive, but thrive in their important work.

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Bio

Loretta is an exceptional conscious social entrepreneur, leadership coach, and advocate for talent justice and workplace wellbeing. As the Founder of Do Good Leadership Collective, Loretta’s work focuses on helping nonprofit and social impact professionals prioritize healing, sustainability, and wellbeing in their work. She brings nearly 15 years of experience as both a nonprofit leader and wellness practitioner to her work, alongside a deep trust in and connection to ancestral wisdom. Loretta believes in helping the helpers, and knows that sustainable impact is only possible when we lead with a sense of care and belonging for ourselves and those around us.

Resources

Loretta Turner on LinkedIn

Do Good Leadership Collective

Stress Performance Curve

Zones of Delusion

Dr. Akilah Watkins is President and CEO of Independent Sector, one of the national organizations that pulls together our sector and represents it in Washington. Dr. Watkins has been on a national listening tour of the nonprofit sector since she took on this leadership role in January 2023. In this episode, she shares what she’s heard about the challenges facing the nonprofit workforce. She also shares how Independent Sector is working to improve the policy environment for nonprofits as employers.

Go to our website for a transcript of the episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. While you’re there, browse our library of amazing guests and conversations from Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. You can find the podcast, our blog, free tools, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

In this episode of the Fund The People Podcast, you’ll get an inside view of one foundation’s journey to investing in healthy nonprofit executive transitions - and helping other funders to do the same. 

Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Liz Sak, Executive Director of Cricket Island Foundation, and Hana Sun, a consultant who manages the Foundation’s Leadership Transition Fund. They discuss Cricket Island Foundation's approach to supporting nonprofit leadership transitions, particularly for small, grassroots organizations focused on youth organizing. The foundation provides three-year grants of $45,000 per year to help organizations navigate the before, during, and after phases of executive transitions.

Often funders unintentionally create barriers to healthy grantee leadership transitions, with many nonprofit leaders hesitant to openly discuss their plans to leave due to fears of lost or postponed funding. Cricket Island Foundation addressed this by publicly signaling their supportive stance toward transitions, creating a firewall between the foundation and grantees through an external consultant, establishing peer-learning cohorts for transitioning leaders, and developing resources for both nonprofits and funders through the Leading Forward initiative.

The discussion emphasizes that successful transitions require long-term planning, adequate resources, and a supportive funding ecosystem. We also talk about the importance of normalizing conversations about transitions and creating safe spaces for leaders to explore their future plans.

Resources:

Cricket Island

Leading Forward 

Leadership Learning Community

Building Movement Project 

“Could Term Limits for Nonprofit Leaders Ease the Burnout Crisis?” by Chitra Aiyar,Chronicle of Philanthropy, Jan. 7, 2025

“Supporting Nonprofit Leadership Transitions: A Foundation's Journey” July 2024

ciftransitions@gmail.com

Liz Sak

Liz Sak became the second Executive Director of the Cricket Island Foundation in 2008, overseeing all aspects of the Foundation’s management including finance, program development, grantmaking, and field-building.

Prior to joining the foundation, Liz spent more than two decades running non-profit organizations. This work included securing millions of dollars of public investment in youth development work in the South Bronx which culminated in her securing funding for the Phipps Beacon School, a multi-service initiative serving young people and families; Liz served as the inaugural director of that program. She has since led organizations at the intersection of youth-organizing, the arts, and youth-development, developing public-private partnerships in support of that work. Since her move to philanthropy in 2008, Liz has focused on the development of strategies that are grounded in principles of social justice philanthropy, organizational strengthening, and partnership. She recently co-authored an article on evaluation for The Foundation Review and her writing has appeared in the Chronicle of Philanthropy, Foundation Center, and numerous blogs.

Liz holds a BA in political science from Lehigh University and an MBA from the Yale School of Management.

Hana Sun

Hana has 15 years of experience in facilitation, curriculum design, community building, and organizational leadership. She has held previous roles at New Economy Coalition, Third Wave Fund, Global Action Project, Mozilla Foundation, Cricket Island Foundation, Coalition for Asian American Children and Families, Hawaii Public Schools, and more. She has a master’s degree from Columbia University School of Social Work and a bachelor’s degree in Literature and Dance Studies from Smith College.

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We’re kicking-off Season 6 with a new 3-part special series, “How Funders Can Support Nonprofit Workers in the Age of Burnout.” It features speakers and topics from a panel discussion hosted by Fund the People at the Center for Effective Philanthropy conference in fall 2023.

In this first episode of the series, you'll learn from a foundation executive director who's leading an important new experiment in how funders invest in the workforce of grantee organizations. The Executive Director is Jamie Allison. The foundation is the Walter & Elise Haas Fund. And the experiment is the Endeavor Fund, which is a program of the Haas Fund. 

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by Loftis Partners. They've launched the Pay Equity Collective, a peer learning experience that provides capacity building, strategic resources, and a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit payequitycollective.com to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

In this episode, Rusty shares exciting news about a podcasting partnership series with ProInspire and their Co-CEO Monisha Kapila (our guest on Season 1 Episode 9 of this show), which will be rolled-out during July. 

In addition, in this episode your host…

• Reflects on and summarizes the themes of the first six episodes of Season 2, which is focused on the principles and practices of talent investing;
• Shares more about the work of Fund the People beyond the podcast; and
• Invites you to utilize our online resources, join our mailing list, and offer your input on what you want or need from our organization.
  

During this long dark winter, we have a bright conversation with a colleague who is managing the operations of a national social justice organization, and who can offer us some rays of hope.

Our guest is Andrea Frye. Andrea is the Operations Director of Peoples’ Action, a national network of state & local grassroots power-building organizations united in fighting for justice.

This episode gives you a concrete example of the value created for an organization and its staff when they use capacity-building dollars to build their people-systems – the policies, procedures, and people needed to support the staff. You’ll hear good examples of how an organization that champions worker justice in American society is practicing those values in-house: how they’re building their recruitment and retention systems; how they’re approaching a unionization organizing effort within the staff; and how they’re preparing for a major executive transition.

People’s Action is a grantee of Ford and has received a 5-year capacity-building grant from BUILD initiative, through which they’ve focused on building their people-systems. Andrea also helped to get a peer-learning cohort going among the “COOs” of BUILD grantees. (Fund the People co-designed and co-facilitated the cohort, alongside the Chicago-based consultancy Morton Group.) 

In Season 1 Episode 2 (S1E2) of this podcast, we spoke with Kathy Reich who directs Ford Foundation BUILD. This episode is a companion to that one. (It’s like we’re bringing Kathy and Andrea, a grantmaker and a grantee leader, into conversation with one another virtually across time and space through the magic of podcasting!) We hope you get great value from this bonus episode and hope you’ll check out S1E2 with Kathy. We can’t wait to share more conversations soon in Season 3!

In celebration of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, we’re pleased to welcome special guest Michael Smith, the eighth CEO of AmeriCorps, the federal agency for service and volunteering. This special episode explores the role of AmeriCorps as the federal government’s anchor institution, ensuring that MLK National Day of Service is a “day on,” not a “day off.”

Our conversation also examines the role of AmeriCorps as a partnership between the federal government and the nonprofit sector for advancing public service, civic engagement, and social justice. We explore how AmeriCorps (formerly known as the Corporation for National and Community Service) is a major investment in the public service workforce – both in the social sector and in government itself. And Mr. Smith shares AmeriCorps' current efforts to advance equity, and improve the living stipend and education award available to AmeriCorps members.

In this episode of the Fund the People podcast, host Rusty Stahl interviews Nneka Payne, Executive Director of Choose 180, a Seattle-area nonprofit that transforms oppressive systems and supports young people's healing and development. Payne shares her personal journey from experiencing the juvenile legal system firsthand to leading an organization that provides alternatives to prosecution and incarceration for youth. Choose 180 has grown from one program to eight, expanding from court-based diversion to include mental health services, gun violence prevention, and other support services.

The conversation focuses on Choose 180's groundbreaking decision to establish a minimum salary floor of $70,000 (now $73,000) for all employees, up from previous wages that hovered around $45,000-$50,000. This transformation occurred rapidly - within 4-6 weeks - during the pandemic, driven by staff advocacy and leadership's commitment to addressing financial stress among employees. The organization worked with compensation consultants and engaged their board to make this significant change, despite the uncertainties of nonprofit funding.

The results of this wage increase have been transformative for both staff and program participants. The organization has actually grown its staff from about 20 to 32 people, while maintaining strong program outcomes. Choose 180 has also expanded its employee benefits to include wellness stipends, homeownership education, and other resources. Nneka emphasizes that when staff aren't burdened by financial stress, they can focus more fully on serving participants, leading to better outcomes and stronger community impact.

Bio: Nneka Payne

Nneka is a relationship-focused and mission-driven leader who holds a dynamic background spanning a decade across community-based organizations, human services, and the legal system. Rooted in her firsthand experiences with the King County juvenile legal system, the mission of CHOOSE 180 is deeply personal for her. She has witnessed how the strain between systems, processes, and people create significant gaps and limit opportunities for young people and is committed to eliminating those strains and identifying possibilities.

Links to Resources:

CHOOSE 180 website

CHOOSE 180 on Instagram

CHOOSE 180 programs

Contact CHOOSE 180 (206) 457-8940

FTP Podcast episode Talent Matters Remix, Part III: Culture of Care - with Michele Booth Cole

FTP Podcast episode Compensation Philosophy for Your Nonprofit - with Mala Nagarajan, Vega Mala Consulting

FTP Podcast episode Getting Retirement Right – Tips for Nonprofit Employers - with Chitra Aiyar, Just Futures

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠.

From all of us at Fund the People – Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, and Happy New Year!

You and millions of people in America’s nonprofit workforce are resisting, keeping flames alive, sustaining traditions and values, and rebuilding communities and civic spaces that have been so challenged by the pandemic, political violence, and other crises.

And as you do this work, it is critical that you find ways to take care of yourself and your co-workers, and to ensure that your organization cares for its workforce.

Independent Sector (“IS”) is a national organization that represents the nonprofit sector in Washington. In this episode, Rusty speaks with Jeffrey Moore, its Chief Strategy Officer, about the importance of having a seat at the table with the federal government.

The nonprofit sector is the trusted infrastructure in communities, and also 10% of the private workforce in the country. To raise our visibility, and make sure that our government understands and partners with the nonprofit sector, IS has been working on a number of different fronts including NIIAG (Nonprofit Infrastructure Investment Advocacy Groups), and a campaign to create an ‘Office on the Nonprofit Sector’ within the White House. 

Other topics discussed:

• Update on legislative bills: the Build Back Better Package and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Roads and Bridges Package.
• Raising the need to include the nonprofit workforce data in the Bureau of Labor Statistics report on a quarterly basis.
• Health of the Nonprofit Sector Report: a four part diagnostic of the sector.

This is the fifth episode in our podcast’s ongoing thread about how federal and local governments can invest in the nonprofit workforce. For more episodes on this topic and access to resources mentioned in the episode please go to: https://fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast/

*This episode was recorded September 23, 2021 

In this episode, host Rusty Stahl speaks with Aria Florant, co-founder and CEO of Liberation Ventures (LV), about navigating internal conflict within nonprofits. Aria shares her personal experiences and challenges in leading LV, particularly around issues of power dynamics and organizational culture. Liberation Ventures is a grantmaking intermediary that works toward reparations for slavery.

Rusty and Aria talk about the complexities of power within nonprofits, including the need for leaders to acknowledge and mindfully wield their power. They also discuss the importance of creating a culture of repair, where conflict is addressed openly and proactively, and where staff members at all levels feel empowered.  

This episode gives actionable insights for nonprofit leaders and funders, and advocates for greater investment in organizational wellness and practices that support healthy team dynamics. Tune in to hear how addressing internal issues is crucial not only for the well-being of staff but also for the overall effectiveness and impact of the organization.  

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Resources

Liberation Ventures: A Dream in Our Name, by Aria Florant

we will not cancel us, by adrienne maree brown

Building Resilient Organizations, by Maurice Mitchell

The Four Pivots: Reimagining Justice, Reimagining Ourselves, by Shawn A. Ginwright, PhD

My Grandmother’s Hands, by Resmaa Menakem

What it Takes to Heal, by Prentis Hemphill

Elite Capture: How the Powerful Took Over Identity Politics (And Everything Else), by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò

Building a Reparative Organization and Nation, by Aria Florant

Liberation Ventures_Building A Reparative Organization_Framework & Tool

Karla Monterosso

Dr. Resmaa Menakem

New progressive social movements are driving a huge boom of new talent. But leadership development efforts don’t have the funding or scale to keep up. Our guests today are trying to working to change that.

In episode 2 of our second season, we’re thrilled to talk with two powerful leaders, Deepak Bhargava and Gara LaMarche, who seek to build a new leadership center for young are building a new leadership center, housed within the City University of New York (CUNY), to support young activists — particularly those from communities of color and working-class backgrounds.

Deepak comes from the progressive community organizing field, where he is best known for running the Center for Community Change (now known as Community Change). Gara comes from the progressive philanthropy field, where he has held executive leadership roles in the Democracy Alliance, Atlantic Philanthropies, and the Open Society Foundations. 

We discuss their career journeys, their new research, and their current endeavor. And we discuss why there is so little infrastructure to support the progressive nonprofit workforce, including the lack of investment from organized philanthropy.

In this second installment of our "Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy" series, host Rusty Stahl shares insights from his recent experience at the 22nd annual Foundations on the Hill event in Washington, DC. Drawing from meetings with congressional staff and discussions with philanthropic colleagues, Rusty offers reflections and actionable ideas for addressing the political and policy threats to our sector.

Emphasizing the importance of maintaining hope and agency in the face of significant challenges, Rusty highlights the unique role of nonprofits in driving social change. He calls for greater solidarity among nonprofit infrastructure groups, funders, and government leaders, and provides practical advice for listeners on how to support and strengthen the sector. From educating policymakers about the nonprofit workforce to leveraging voter support and supporting key legislative initiatives, Rusty offers a roadmap for nonprofit professionals to actively defend and advance their critical work. The episode serves as a call to action for nonprofit leaders to engage in advocacy, share their stories, and support organizations fighting for the sector's interests.

Resources:

Foundations on the Hill

United Philanthropy Forum

Council on Foundations

Independent Sector

Philanthropy New York

New York Funders Alliance

National Council on Nonprofits (and donation page)

Charitable Act 2025

Senator James Lankford, Republican of Oklahoma

Nonprofit Finance Fund's 2025 State of the Nonprofit Sector Survey

Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law (and donation page)

The National Council of Nonprofits (NCN) is collecting information about how the executive orders have impacted U.S. nonprofits so far. Share your org's story directly with NCN via this form.

You can find NCN's summary of the Executive Orders and their impact on nonprofits here (updated Feb. 7).
NCN's overview page about what's happening with the administration, background info, its impact on nonprofits, and more.

After collecting the pressing concerns of nonprofits across the country in their recent webinar, and through their survey on the observed impact of the recent executive orders and actions, NCN created a new document with the latest answers to frequently asked questions. Check back often as they will be updating this link as new information surfaces.

Visit www.fundthepeople.org for more!

In this episode, you’ll learn about developing a compensation philosophy on which you can build human resources and compensation systems that are in keeping with values of equity and justice. Consultant Mala Nagarajan sits down with host Rusty Stahl to talk about the ideas that undergird equitable salaries and benefits in social justice and social change workplaces.

Mala brings deep experience in nonprofit human resources through her work with Vega Mala Consulting and RoadMap Consulting. She is now developing resources specifically to help nonprofits establish compensation practices grounded in racial equity.

This is Season 3, Episode 9. Throughout this conversation, we explore several of the Principles of Talent-Investing:

• Principle 1: Nonprofit People Are Awesome
• Principle 2: Nonprofit People are the Bedrock of Organizational Effectiveness
• Principle 4: Talent Justice is Essential, and
• Principle 6: It Takes Significant Time and Money to Invest in the Nonprofit Workforce

To learn about the Eight Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

Are you questioning the sustainability of leadership practices in your organization? How might centering the experiences and perspectives of women of color transform leadership in the social sector? What would it look like if funders truly listened to what nonprofit organizations need and responded accordingly? In this powerful episode, Rusty speaks with Safi Jiroh, Executive Director of LeaderSpring Center, to answer some of these questions.

This episode delves into LeaderSpring's evolution from supporting only executive directors to creating a fellowship for women of color leaders at all levels in nonprofits. Safi discusses how the organization redesigned its curriculum to address systemic barriers and promote liberatory leadership practices while challenging unsustainable expectations in the nonprofit sector.

Safi offers profound insights on what women of color bring to leadership roles, including community, empathy, lived experience, love, resilience, intuition, and truth-telling as primary contributions. The discussion tackles the current political climate where diversity, equity, and inclusion work is under attack, with Safi emphasizing the need to "fight to dream" and "fight to innovate" despite opposition. She challenges philanthropy to examine practices that create "bondage for nonprofit organizations" and to demonstrate the will to change by releasing control and embracing vulnerability.

You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Bio

Safi’s deep family and cultural history of social and racial justice rooted in an ethic of love, service, and liberation in Oakland, California, formed her fierce dedication to servant leadership and development of a strong racial justice lens in life and work. Her over 25 years of experience in the public and social sectors as a leader, grant maker, consultant, facilitator, and volunteer have been the portals through which her life-long commitment to the advancement of human dignity has manifested. Safi brings her keen lens of racial equity and social justice to our Fellowship program, of which she is an alumna, and Impact Consulting work. 

Prior to LSC, Safi’s leadership positions included: Executive Director of the Marcus Foster Educational Institute, Executive Director of Banning Cultural Alliance,  Community Faculty Fellow with the Center for the Arts at the California College of Arts, and Grants and Nonprofit Management Analyst for the City of Oakland’s Cultural Arts Department. In each position, Safi established equity-centered foci to aspect of the work. As a licensed minister with a Master of Arts in Spiritual Formation and Leadership, she works at the intersections of faith, formation, and justice. She has been an independent organizational capacity building consultant and facilitator since 1990 supporting hundreds of projects, a certified Integral® Coach since 1999, and has served on numerous local, state, and national Boards and public policy committees, commissions, and task forces. She is a keynote speaker, a former dancer, and a private poet.

Resources

• LeaderSpring Center
• Safi Jiroh on LinkedIn
• Women of Color LeadStrong Fellowship
• LeaderSpring's Upcoming Events
• Race to Lead Reports - Building Movement Project
• BoardSource Research

In this episode, you'll gain valuable insights from a major funding institution about why they believe it’s important to invest in the nonprofit workforce by supporting new executive directors. We speak with Joey Lee and Bipasha Ray of Open Society Foundations (OSF). You'll hear about important research on the value of investing in new executives from a new OSF report that draws upon the experiences and voices of hundreds of new E.D.s. This is a resource that you can use with your funders, your board, and others.

The issue of healthy executive transitions was important before 2020, and it's even more important now, as diverse new executives are hired into challenging pandemic workplaces. Executive transitions are a crucial inflection point for new managers, organizations, staff teams, board members, and supporters involved in the process. And, perhaps most importantly, they also impact the communities who rely upon organizations for services.

As more organizations hire “historic firsts” – women, people of color, LGBTQ people – as their top executives, too many of these leaders are unintentionally being "set up to fail", rather than supported to succeed. Funder practices can be part of the solution, or part of the problem. So having a major funder like OSF become part of the solution in a very public way is important progress, and it’s something you can leverage in your own talent-investing efforts!

This episode explores Talent-Investing Principle #4: Talent Justice is Essential. This principle says that racism, sexism, classism, and other inequities are baked into the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce. Thus, talent-investing must advance intersectional racial equity in order to be successful. To hear all 8 Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Season 3 Episode 1. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our show notes page at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.

As the nonprofit workforce crisis evolves into 2025, how funders respond to nonprofit burnout, compensation, recruitment, and retention challenges will be more important than ever.

After a summer and fall hiatus, we’re back with a brand-new season of Fund the People’s Podcast, featuring insightful guests and valuable resources to help you invest in the nonprofit workforce! 

Even though we haven’t been publishing, we've been busy behind the scenes! At the start of this episode, you’ll get a sneak-peek into some of the things we’ve been working on.

Then we dive into new research from the Center for Effective Philanthropy (CEP) with major takeaways and commentary on the state of the nonprofit workforce. Our guest is Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Ph.D., Vice President of Research at CEP. She shares her journey into social change work, and offers valuable insights on the research findings. We explore two important studies:

1. A survey of nonprofit executives examining “the state of nonprofits in 2024,” with a focus on employee and executive burnout.

2. A survey of foundation professionals, exploring grantmaker attitudes and responses to nonprofit burnout.

Fund the People was honored to be part of the research rollout in Summer 2024. We were featured as a resource in one of the CEP reports. Rusty was interviewed for an article about the research. And we contributed a guest post on the CEP blog. In 2023, we hosted a session at CEP’s conference to share examples of how funders can respond to nonprofit burnout, and invited the foundation CEOs who were our panelists - Jamie Allison, Desiree Flores, and Jennifer Roller - to share their work on a special podcast mini-series.

Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Ph.D. Biography

Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Ph.D. manages CEP’s Research team, leading the creation, development, analysis, and release of various research projects and initiatives relevant to the philanthropic sector’s most pressing issues. Prior to CEP, Dr. Smith Arrillaga was a faculty fellow and professor of practice in philanthropy and education policy at the University of Texas, and she served as executive director of several national and state level nonprofits, including the Dana Center, a national center on math and science education equity and the Education Trust West. Dr. Smith Arrillaga has also served on a range of state and national advisory groups including Google’s Equitable Artificial Intelligence Research Roundtable and has spoken widely at conferences, published articles and op-eds and has been interviewed by various media outlets, including Forbes, the New York Times, and CNN.

Resources

The Center for Effective Philanthropy

State of Nonprofits 2024: What Funders Need to Know 

How Foundations are Supporting Grantee Wellbeing 

Building Movement Project Race to Lead

Report: Burnout a Major Concern in Nonprofit Sector 

One MIND at Work

To Ensure Nonprofit Well-Being, Invest in Wages, Workload, and Working Conditions 

Funders: Let’s Stop making Nonprofits Choose Between Balanced Budgets and Burnout 

State of the Nonprofit Sector 2023: What Funders Need to Know 

Funders, Listen Up: It's Time to Invest in Nonprofit Workers 

Funders Supporting Nonprofit Workers podcast playlist - 3 part series from Fund the People Podcast

Strengthening Grantees: Foundation and Nonprofit Perspectives 

Nonprofit Challenges: What Funders Can Do 

Guide to Investing in Grantee Talent 

Funding that Works Academy 

Related Podcast Episodes:

Funders Support Nonprofit Workers in Age of Burnout, Part 1 with Jamie Allison, Walter and Elise Haas Fund

Funders Support Nonprofit Workers in Age of Burnout, Part 2 with Jennifer Roller, Raymond John Wean Foundation

Funders Support Nonprofit Workers in Age of Burnout, Part 3 with Desiree Flores, General Service Foundation

Understanding Funders’ Blindspots (CEP’s Grace Nicholette and Phil Buchanan on the FTP Podcast, November 2020)

In this enlightening episode, you’’ll learn how a growing group of funders is thinking about wellbeing – for grantees and themselves. Laura Bacon, strategy lead and facilitator of the Funders and Wellbeing Group, discusses how this new global group of a dozen foundations is working to transform philanthropic culture with regard to wellbeing. Through regular virtual meetings and annual in-person gatherings, the group explores ways to support both individual and organizational wellbeing in the social sector. Their recent retreat in Malaysia highlighted how many nonprofit staff challenges related to wellbeing are universal, from shrinking civic spaces to staff burnout and retention issues.

The conversation emphasizes the critical importance of maintaining focus on wellbeing initiatives during challenging times, particularly in the current political climate where social justice work and the nonprofit sector face significant pressures. Laura advocates for funders to be more flexible and generous in their support, while ensuring that wellbeing remains a priority rather than an optional add-on in grantmaking practices.

Laura shares her journey from musician to social change advocate, and her extensive experience in philanthropy and wellbeing initiatives. As the former founding director of the Partner Support Program at Luminate (an Omidyar foundation), she established wellbeing stipends for grantee organizations, allowing them to address their staff's needs with maximum flexibility. The program distributed about 71 grants totaling $350,000, which organizations used for various purposes from team retreats to mental health support.

Biography:

For more than two decades, Laura Bacon has designed programs and led projects and teams to achieve social impact around the world. She’s currently an independent consultant, partnering with clients on a host of cool initiatives. One of her roles includes Strategy Lead and Facilitator of the Funders + Wellbeing Group at The Wellbeing Project, where she facilitates peer-learning and convenings among a dozen funders to enhance wellbeing for individuals, organizations, sectors, and communities.

Previously, Laura was founding director of the Partner Support program at Luminate, a global philanthropic organization that is part of the Omidyar Group, where she supported over 300 grantee partners to achieve their goals of being more resilient, healthy & inclusive, and well-networked.

Before working at Luminate / Omidyar Network, Laura was a White House Fellow focused on clean energy.

Resources:

• laura.m.bacon@gmail.com

• LinkedIn

• Funders & Wellbeing Group Website

• Wellbeing Project website

• The Wellbeing Project - Global Hearth Summit in Slovenia

• College course: Personal Choice and Global Transformation

• Global Values 101, a book based on the above course, edited by Brian Palmer, Kate Holbrook, Ann S. Kim, Anna Portnoy  

• Rights and Dignity Working Group (piloted Wellness stipends - a cross-Omidyar Group initiative)

• Astraea Lesbian Foundation For Justice (inspiration for wellness stipends) https://astraeafoundation.org  - Healing Justice stipend

• General Service Foundation (inspiration for wellness stipends): https://generalservice.org/whatwefund/healingjustice/  -

• Fund the People podcast interview with Desiree Flores

• Priya Parker book “The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters”

• Deepa Iyer’s Social Change Ecosystem Role Map

• Prospera, the International Network of Women’s Funders, doing great work on wellbeing

• Laura’s Blog posts on Partner Support, Coaching Stipend, Wellbeing Stipends:

• Luminate & Omidyar Group (philanthropy I worked with for 10+ years)

• * Here's more info about thePartner Support program of which I was the founding director

• Blogs (first andsecond) about Luminate's wellbeing stipend

• Luminate's coaching stipend

• Grantee Perception Reports (2020 and2023)

• Funders & Wellbeing Group

• "FundWell" newsletter about our funders' retreat in Malaysia

Listen up, funders: it’s time to invest in nonprofit workers. It’s not just word of mouth anymore. In this episode, you’ll learn about new research reports from the Center for Effective Philanthropy and the National Council of Nonprofits that show that investing in staff is the #1 need among nonprofits. And it’s not just this year; we discuss research going back a decade that shows the disconnect between funder and nonprofit perspectives on this issue.

This episode, which is based on a blog post written in response to the research, is part of our Rusty's Rants and Reflections series. The series offers Rusty's provocative reflections and ideas about investing in the nonprofit workforce.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

In this episode, you’ll hear how a new nonprofit executive can start-up innovative investments in employees from scratch, even in a 60-year-old organization with 200 staff. 

Shaheer Mustafa tells his story about his work at HopeWell, a major foster care nonprofit in Massachusetts. When he took management of the $25 million budget with hundreds of staff, there was no internal capacity that you would expect from an HR team. Since then, he has leveraged government and philanthropic investments to build-out a sophisticated set of investments in staff, and focused on increasing representation, leadership, and voice of people with lived experience in the foster care system throughout the organization. And he kept it going through the challenges of the pandemic.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠Loftis Partners⁠. They've launched the ⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠, a peer learning experience that provides capacity building, strategic resources, and a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠payequitycollective.com⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

Learn why it's critical to invest in the diverse emerging workforce inside foundations, and how such investment helps organized philanthropy be responsive to nonprofits and those who are on the front lines doing the work.

Rusty sits down for a chat with Storme Gray, the inspiring Executive Director of Emerging Practitioners in Philanthropy (EPIP), the national network of emerging foundation leaders who are elevating philanthropic practice in order to build a more just, equitable and sustainable world.

Storme discusses the challenges that face young people of color and others in the foundation field, and shares EPIP’s efforts to ensure that emerging grantmakers have an introduction to funding work that is grounded in equity, inclusion, and personal responsibility, regardless of positionality within philanthropic institutions. EPIP recently celebrated its 20th anniversary and Storme shares her vision for the years ahead. She is creating space for diverse emergent leaders to build their voice, sharpen their skills, and develop analysis and critique of the sector. EPIP continues to improve the way philanthropy works with nonprofits in service of communities.

In this episode we explore Talent-Investing Principle #1: Nonprofit people are awesome.  To hear all 8 Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Season 3 Episode 1. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our show notes page from the episode or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of our podcast and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

Welcome to the first episode of Season 4 of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl!

In this episode, host Rusty Stahl welcomes you back, and sets up the theme for an amazing new season!

Each season of this show has a theme, and together they follow the outline of our Funding that Works Framework.

• Season 1 explored the problem facing the social sector as a deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce.
• Season 2 introduced the concept of Talent-Investing, “the intentional deployment of capital to support and develop nonprofit leaders and workers.”
• Season 3 explored the 8 Principles of Talent-Investing. These principles offer the values and conceptual architecture upon which the practices of talent-investing can be built.

In Season 4, we’re diving into the 8 Practices of Talent-Investing. In this episode, you get three big ideas that encapsulate and organize the practices, and a synopsis of the 8 practices themselves.

All resources and links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. We also invite you to enjoy our catalog of conversations from Seasons 1-3, plus our blog, toolkit, and other resources, on our website at fundthepeople.org.

In this episode, you’ll gain an understanding of how bias commonly plays out in the hiring process, and how organizations can better recruit and retain a powerful, diverse workforce that expands opportunity across lines of race and gender.

Our guests are Trina C. Olson and Alfonso T. Wenker, co-leaders of the consultancy Team Dynamics and co-authors of Hiring Revolution: A Guide to Disrupt Racism and Sexism in Hiring. In this conversation, they share powerful, practical approaches to the hiring process – from preparation through salary negotiation. They also share a plethora of resources that they make available at no cost to the field. Listeners gain ideas for interrupting bias and embedding equity in employment processes, including:

• Preparation for hiring

• Recruitment and search

• The hiring process itself

• Paying, supporting, and managing employees in today’s nonprofit environment

Alfonso and Trina bring extensive experience in nonprofits and philanthropy. Through their work at Team Dynamics, they’ve gained deep knowledge of how organizations and companies can address diversity and equity in the recruitment, hiring, and retention processes.

Go to the ⁠Show Notes Page⁠ on our website for a transcript of the episode, links to the resources discussed in the episode, guest bio, and more. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠fundthepeople.org⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.

Do you love nonprofit work, but find yourself frustrated by the starvation cycle, the overhead myth, the racial and economic inequity, and the toxic burnout culture that dampens our effectiveness? Do you want to see change, but you’re now sure how to address these harmful outdated mental models and practices? Or what to replace them with?

Then this is the podcast for you. Every episode, I sit down with fascinating thought-leaders from across our sector to gather stories, research, and practical resources that you can use to ensure that nonprofit people are at the center of performance, impact, and sustainability in your organization or the organizations that you support.

Show Notes: 

• Introduction to Fund the People Podcast and Who this Podcast is for
• About Fund the People (The Organization) and Rusty Stahl (Founder, President & CEO)
• The conversation that directly influenced Rusty’s work in the non-profit work supporting people working inside foundations and in the nonprofit sector
• Research and Development and major support networks that went into creating Fund the People as an organization
• Features, Milestones and important people who’ve supported Fund the People
• Opportunities for working together and learning more
  

Links Mentioned:

Indiana University’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy

Emerging Practitioners in Philanthropy

Fund the People Toolkit

Community Partners

Fund the People’s Talent Justice Initiative

Today’s social justice nonprofit leaders are fighting for communities that have been impacted by trauma, even as the nonprofit leaders are experiencing or organizational and personal trauma themselves. Racial equity and social justice require talent-investing. In this episode, Rusty talks with Sidney Hargro, the inaugural Executive Director at The LeadersTrust, a new multi-funder grantmaking initiative that offers an effective, evaluated approach to talent-investing that has been tested for 20 years with over 120 nonprofits and more than $30 million in investments.

To help advance transformation in the sector, The LeadersTrust was recently created by the Evelyn and Walter Haas, Jr. Fund and other foundations. The LeadersTrust offers the Flexible Leadership Awards, a sophisticated talent-investing model initially developed by Haas Jr. Fund as a strategy to invest in nonprofit staff in order to expand program impact and financial sustainability. Topics discussed include:

• Sidney’s journey into and through philanthropy, including a recent stint as the head of Philanthropy Network Greater Philadelphia, and his studies in engineering and divinity.
• The foundations that have come together to form The LeadersTrust.
• The core components of the Flexible Leadership Awards.
• The importance of talent-investing layered on top of general operating support.
• Responding to three common “pushbacks” on talent-investing.

Check out our show notes for links to references and recources mentioned in this episode! 

Every American president and White House Administration has a relationship of some sort to philanthropy and the nonprofit sector. It may be policy-related, and it may be personal, and sometimes it’s both. It may be during their tenure in the White House, and it may be in their post-presidential life, and sometimes it’s both. Let’s take a quick tour of the modern presidency as it relates to philanthropy and nonprofits in our new mini-episode series called Rusty's Rants & Reflections!

In this episode, we go deep into nonprofit talent nerdom with Libbie Landles-Cobb, a Partner at The Bridgespan Group and Fund the People Advisory Council member.

We discuss Libbie’s research, which helps us to shift the narrative in the field from a “leadership deficit” to a “leadership development deficit”.

And we hear about the programs and consulting she offers, which are providing funders and nonprofits with practical ways to address the leadership development deficit.

Libbie also shares her personal childhood motivation for engaging in social change work, and discusses her own and her institution’s evolution regarding the relationship between business practices and the nonprofit sector.

So let your talent nerd flag fly, and listen to this great episode!

Get a sneak peek at our upcoming season 4, where Rusty and guests dive into the Eight Practices of Talent-Investing.

On this episode of the Fund the People Podcast (S7:E4), you’ll get a bird’s eye view of the threats to nonprofits, civil society, and social movements around the world. And you’ll hear how one global funder has responded.

Our guest today is Jamaica Maxwell, the Civil Society and Leadership Director at the David and Lucile Packard Foundation. 

We discuss the challenges faced by civil society globally, including shrinking civic space and threats to individuals and organizations working on critical issues like climate change and reproductive rights. 

She shares how the Packard Foundation’s efforts to respond to these threats, and how the Foundation’s work has evolved from using an ‘organizational effectiveness’ frame to a more holistic approach to supporting civil society, which emphasizes the interconnectedness of leaders, organizations, networks, movements, infrastructure, and civic space.

Resources:

The David & Lucile Packard Foundation

Public Installation, Bill Graham Civic Auditorium, San Francisco, California

CSL Strategy Website

Blog when the strategy launched (includes great short video)

Funders Initiative for Civil Society

Great report from FICS on civic space

Human Rights Funders Network

Better Preparedness Initiative

Trust, Accountability, and Inclusion Collaborative

WINGS

CIVICUS

Ford BUILD evaluation

Guest Bio: 

Jamaica Maxwell is the Civil Society and Leadership director at the Packard Foundation where she oversees grantmaking in support of strong leaders, organizations, and movements, and a thriving civil society across the Foundation’s goal areas and global geographies in Asia, Africa, South America, and North America. Jamaica is passionate about shifting systems and power to improve outcomes for the environment and people. She believes that durable progress on the critical issues of our day will only occur when we apply a systems approach and invest deeply in the people closest to the problem. 

Jamaica has worked to support civil society leaders and organizations for over 20 years. She joined the Packard Foundation in 2013 as a program officer supporting the Foundation’s organizational effectiveness grantmaking to partners working on climate mitigation, ocean conservation, and reproductive health in the U.S., Asia, and Latin America. Before joining the Foundation, Jamaica spent 11 years at California Environmental Associates, where she gained deep experience providing strategic and organizational guidance to nonprofits, foundations, and businesses, with particular expertise in climate change, biodiversity conservation, and food systems. During this time, she supported the design and launch of several new climate-focused institutions. In addition, Jamaica ran her own organizational development consulting firm and served as the founding program director for the Roots of Change Fund, a nonprofit and funders’ collaborative working to increase the sustainability of California’s food system.  

Jamaica holds a bachelor’s degree in economics from Brown University and a master’s degree in writing from the University of San Francisco. She lives in San Francisco with her husband, two children, and one very large rescue dog. She enjoys walking her dog in the fog, trying new foods, and traveling with her family to beautiful cities and wild places, near and far.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

Government contracts are a crucial revenue stream for large swaths of the nonprofit sector. In many organizations, employee wages and other compensation factors are based on the terms of government contracts. So there’s a close connection between government contracting practices and nonprofit workforce issues. In this episode, Rusty talks with Jennifer Geiling from the NYC Mayor’s Office about the City's efforts to create a more equitable, accessible, transparent, and standard process for nonprofits who deliver services to New Yorkers on behalf of the City government.

The reforms they’ve made recently include: a base-lined 25% advance on Human Services contracts and an Indirect Cost Rate Funding initiative to make sure that more money is allocated to the overall costs nonprofits have beyond specific service-related items. 

Other topics discussed:

• A Nonprofit Resiliency Committee that has brought together government and nonprofit representatives during the Administration and through the pandemic.
• “PASSPort” a centralized, digital procurement and sourcing portal for nonprofits, and Citywide contractors, working with agencies across the City government.
• The City's “Cost Manual,” a new tool that defines nonprofit direct and indirect costs in human services government contracts.
• The City's work to support nonprofits during the pandemic and the Covid-19 Human Service Recovery Task Force

For more information on Jennifer and links to the resources mentioned in this episode please go to fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast/

Vu Le is a writer, speaker, vegan, Pisces, and the former Executive Director of RVC, a nonprofit in Seattle that promotes social justice by developing leaders of color, strengthening organizations led by communities of color, and fostering collaboration between diverse communities.

Vu’s passion to make the world better, combined with a low score on the Law School Admission Test, drove him into the field of nonprofit work, where he learned that we should take the work seriously, but not ourselves. There’s tons of humor in the nonprofit world, and someone needs to document it. He is going to do that, with the hope that one day, a TV producer will see how cool and interesting our field is and make a show about nonprofit work, featuring attractive actors attending strategic planning meetings and filing 990 tax forms.

Known for his no-BS approach, irreverent sense of humor, and love of unicorns, Vu has been featured in dozens, if not hundreds, of his own blog posts at NonprofitAF.com, formerly nonprofitwithballs.com.

Show Notes: 

• About Vu Le
• Vu’s journey/take on investing in emerging leaders in the non-profit sector
• The deficit of Leaders (Investment in them) - What does it look like?
• How the pandemic is impacting leaders in the nonprofit sector
• Responsive Philanthropy versus Strategic Philanthropy
• Mutli-Year General Operating Dollars - (“M.Y.G.O.D.”)
• Where to find Vu
  

Links Mentioned During the Show:

• Community Centric Fundraising
• Vu’s Blog, Nonprofit AF
• Grant Advisor
• Ethical Rainmaker
• #crappyfundingpractices and #awesomefundingpractices
  

We're launching Season 7 of Fund the People: A Podcast with Rusty Stahl tomorrow, Wednesday, Nov. 13! Tune in for interviews with knowledgeable guests as we explore nonprofit workforce funding challenges and success stories.

We appreciate that numerous funders have been trying to support the personal well-being of nonprofit workers during recent years. However, in this episode you’ll hear Rusty’s reflection on why “mini-grants” for wellness is in no way an adequate response to the challenges confronted by the nonprofit workforce. And you’ll learn the concept of turning the funding formula upside down, so staffing issues are treated with the level of attention that they need and deserve.

Resources:

• Flip the Funding Formula blog post

• State of Nonprofits 2023: What Funders Need to Know by Center for Effective Philanthropy
• Less Than We Thought report by Fund the People (must create a login for FTP Toolkit)

This episode is part of our Rusty's Rants and Reflections series. The series offers Rusty's provocative reflections and ideas about investing in the nonprofit workforce. 

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

In this episode, you’ll garner an important perspective on the nonprofit and philanthropic community from a professional coach who helps Black women executive leaders navigate the white spaces of our sector. 

Guest Kelli King-Jackson reflects on the impact of racial politics on organizational culture. We discuss the need for nonprofits to adapt to a changing workforce, including generational differences in communication styles. And we talk about how foundations can be more responsive to the needs of grantees and embrace rapid change.

Resources:

Kelli King-Jackson’s website Love X Freedom: A Home for Black Women Leaders

ABFE Fellowship: A Philanthropic Partnership for Black Communities

Kelli King-Jackson on LinkedIn

Guest Bio: Kelli King-Jackson

Kelli is the founder of Kelli King-Jackson, LLC, a social impact firm that advises leaders and organizations committed to investments in Black communities in the South. For 25 years, Kelli has been in the social sector having worked with both nonprofits and foundations. She has skillfully formed strategic partnerships, built effective teams, and made funding recommendations throughout her career.

Kelli is a leadership coach to Black women and femmes leading in white spaces. To date, she has coached for more than 500 hours. Kelli considers it a privilege to witness the transformation of leaders and how this impacts their teams, organizations, and communities.

Having spent ten years in philanthropy, Kelli has helped grant more than $135M in funding to the Southern United States. She continues to use her expertise to advise grantmakers on making equitable investments in communities of color. Kelli also advises Black-led nonprofits seeking to form meaningful partnerships with philanthropic organizations.

Kelli is an ACC-level coach with the International Coaching Federation and a 21/64 certified philanthropic advisor. Additionally, she is a member of the National Network of Consultants to Grantmakers. Through board service and her philanthropy, Kelli remains hands-on in social impact work.

In her free time, Kelli hosts discussions on upcoming elections and amplifies ways to support local, Black-led organizations. Kelli is also a sought-after speaker, an avid writer, and an occasional crafter.

For more resources, check out our show notes page at https://fundthepeople.org/coaching-black-women-leaders/

In this episode, I'm offering up another one of my Rants and Reflections. Today's topic: The Nonprofit Nutrition Cycle.

Let’s face it: many foundation grants are frozen solid. They are restricted by purpose, program, time, even by line items in the budget. To borrow language from George Overholser’s great article on buying, not building, frozen funds are great for “buying” programs, but are terrible for “building” the very organizations that run the programs.

In a just and effective system, every funder would, at minimum, contribute flexible funding and, at best, intentionally deploy resources to build strong organizations, rather than just selectively buying a piece of one specific program.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠.

Nonprofit people create and sustain the organizational capacity of nonprofits. So there’s a natural connection between organizational “capacity-building” and what Fund the People calls “talent-investing” (intentionally deploying capital to support and develop nonprofit workers). In our continuous effort to capture the value that talent-investing offers to nonprofits and their funders, in this episode you'll hear the perspective of a funder who actualized this deep connection between a foundation’s capacity-building efforts and talent-investing.

Rusty sat down with Tom Fuechtmann, Senior Program Officer at Community Memorial Foundation, a health-focused regional funder in the western suburbs of Chicago. Fund the People profiled this foundation in our online Toolkit. You can get this and other Field Stories for free by just providing your name and email address here http://fundthepeople.org/toolkit/field/community-memorial/.

This is the first in-person interview in the history of this podcast (since we began in fall 2020 during the depth of the pandemic). We were at the national conference of Grantmakers for Effective Organizations (GEO) in May 2022 in Chigaco. At the GEO meeting, there was much discussion about burnout, sustainability, and thriving among nonprofit workers. This episode offers an important example of a GEO member who has proactively sought to support and develop grantee staff for many years before and during the current crisis.

This episode (S3:E6) examines Talent-Investing Principle Two: Nonprofit People are Bedrock. Dig beneath outcomes, outputs, activities, organizational capacity – underneath it all, you'll find nonprofit people. People are not “overhead,” they are the bedrock of organizational effectiveness. To learn about the Eight Guiding Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

Welcome to a very special final episode of Season Four!

In this episode, you’ll learn how one foundation built the internal political will to make internal reforms so they can provide grants that better serve their grantees and their communities. Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Kenneth Jones, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Equity Officer of one of America’s major foundations, The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. They discuss why and how MacArthur Foundation has increased the amount of money in their grants for “indirect costs” from 15% to 29%, nearly double and one of the highest rates we know about.

This is the fourth installment of our special series, Smashing the Overhead Myth Once and for All! Be sure to check out the first installment (S4E3 with Rodney Christopher of BDO), which sets the context, provides the backstory, and defines terms for the entire series. You can binge the whole series in this Spotify playlist or find them spread across Season Four on the podcast page on our website. Go to the ⁠Show Notes Page⁠ on our website for a transcript of this episode, links to the resources discussed in the episode, guest bio, and more. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠fundthepeople.org⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.

We’ll be taking a podcasting break during summer 2023. We will return this fall with Season Five. We’ll amplify more great guests, transformative ideas, and practical tips for investing in the nonprofit workforce.

This episode makes clear the need for and value of talent-investing for community foundations and other place-focused funders. Our guest, Elizabeth Kidd of the Community Foundation of the Holland/Zeeland Area, demonstrates how even the most modest dollar amounts used in strategic, responsive talent-investing at key inflection points in the lifecycle of leaders and their institutions, can have exponentially positive impact for nonprofit executives, workers, organizations, and communities.

Listen to gain an understanding of…

• Why and how talent-investing has become valuable to the board and staff of the Community Foundation.

• How the Community Foundation has created and sustained value for grantees and the community through its grantmaking to strengthen the local nonprofit sector.

• Why it’s important to invest in the nonprofit workforce at key moments of organizational change and across the life-cycle stages of individuals and organizations.

Go to our website for a transcript of the episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. While you’re there, browse our library of amazing guests and conversations from Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. You can find the podcast, our blog, free tools, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

In this brief episode, Rusty offers our loyal listeners a special sneak-peek into a new program offering being announced shortly from Fund the People! Don’t miss the inside scoop!

Rusty also wraps-up Season 6 by comparing and contrasting stories from some of our amazing guests this season, and offers two key “Aha! moments:”

First: when funders invest in the grantee workforce, it can be extremely big, complicated and costly, or it can be small, simple, and take modest dollars. Or something in between.

Second: If nonprofits have the political will and savvy to invest in their workers, they don’t have to wait for funders for other outside forces to give them permission or incentives.

Go to our website for a transcript of the episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. While you’re there, browse our library of amazing guests and conversations from Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. You can find the podcast, our blog, free tools, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

We don’t need Baby Boomers to get out of the way faster.

We don’t need Millennials or Generation Z to slow down their ambition for leadership.

And we certainly don't need to continually ignore Generation X.

Instead, we need to intentionally create a multi-generational, multiracial nonprofit workforce.

The more we push long-serving leaders to get out, the more resistance we get. The more we push emerging leaders to stay put, the less likely they'll be to stay in their organizations and in the sector. We need new ways to be together, to work together. Here are four suggestions for building a multigenerational, multiracial nonprofit workforce.

This episode wraps up Season 5 and this round of Rusty’s Rants and Reflections. You can hear the full Rants and Reflections series on this Spotify Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0bkiGBJqDkRwZzcw5qmdNs?si=b7fCU-56RPuhJdW9FdzeKQ&pi=u-jWbHl1hIT5mS.

Coming soon: Season 6 features tons of amazing resources and ideas from funders and nonprofit leaders!

Go to the episode page on our podcast page ⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠ to get a transcript of this episode.

We invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests and episodes of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠.

You can also fund our blog, toolkit, sign up for our mailing list, and get other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠.

To set the context for Season 2, your host Rusty Stahl briefly recaps Season 1 and establishes the theme for this new season.

Season 1 focused on The Problem Facing the Nonprofit Workforce, and Rusty defines the problem succinctly as a cyclical deficit of investment in nonprofit leaders and workers. The theme for Season 2 is A Proposal for Change. Rusty shares Fund the People’s concepts of talent-investing and talent justice. He defines the talent-investing cycle as a healthier alternative to the status quo that could advance equity and effectiveness in the nonprofit workforce.

This is the third and final episode of Talent Matters Remix, our special summer series in partnership with ProInspire, co-hosted by Monisha Kapila and Rusty Stahl.

In this episode, Monisha and Rusty talk with Michele Booth Cole, Executive Director of Safe Shores - The DC Children’s Advocacy Center, about why and how to build a nonprofit organizational culture that supports and develops employees. Michele reflects on her article, “A Culture of Care, Without Compromise,” in the Stanford Social Innovation Review (SSIR) Talent Matters blog series. She discusses how her experience and thinking has evolved since the piece was published in April 2015.

We also discuss Michele’s 25-year journey as a Black woman executive director in the nonprofit sector, including her years as a volunteer in different organizations, her first experience as an E.D. with Mentors, Inc., and finally her work with Safe Shores -- The DC Children's Advocacy Center. 

Other topics discussed:

• How to lead nonprofits with a sense of abundance, accountability, and fearlessness.
• The importance of feedback, and learning to hear people, see people and invest in people who are aligned with the values of our organizations.
• How to deal with systemic racism and biases as a Black woman leader.
• A message to funders on racial equity and justice.
• Policies, rituals, and traditions created and led with and by Safe Shores staff to forge a culture of care.
  

The Talent Matters Remix, which is being released throughout July 2021, revisits Talent Matters, a 2014-15 series of essays on the Stanford Social Innovation Review (SSIR) blog. These special episodes are co-hosted by Monisha Kapila, Founder and Co-CEO of ProInspire (who helped curate the SSIR series), and Fund the People’s Rusty Stahl. These conversations feature some of the amazing authors from the Talent Matters blog series.

A lot has changed in our society in the seven years since 2014, when the blog series began. We’ve had seismic changes in our politics, economy, society, and the nonprofit sector and philanthropy. It’s time to revisit, reflect, and remix it!

*We want to thank Monisha Kapila and the ProInspire team, along with guests Michele Booth Cole, Trish Adobea Tchume, and Stephen Bauer for making the Talent Matters Remix possible. You can find out more about the series and all links and resources mentioned in the show notes at fundthepeople.org/podcast. 

Rusty Stahl, President and CEO of Fund the People and host of the podcast, offers an urgent call and a vision for a federal government that works well with the nonprofit workforce. Then Rusty sits down with Dan Cardinali, President and CEO of Independent Sector, one of the influential groups that represent the nonprofit sector in Washington. Independent Sector has been in conversation interests with the Biden-Harris Transition about what the nonprofit sector needs from the White House, and Dan shares an overview of the substance of this dialogue.

Listen to get insights on these topics:

• How will the Biden-Harris White House work with the nonprofit sector?
• What have nonprofits asked for from the Biden-Harris Transition team?
• How can nonprofits help (& be helped by) the incoming administration as we seek to end the coronavirus pandemic, fix democracy, address  racial injustice, and stop climate change

With every election cycle and issue campaign, we are reminded of the critical role that community organizers play in supporting the civic participation of all Americans. In this episode, you'll learn from new research on the working conditions of community organizers in social justice nonprofits. You’ll hear how organizers, executive directors, and funders view the issue. You’ll get recommendations for change, and next steps the All Due Respect is pursuing to ensure that all due respect is given to organizers!

We speak with Kinzie Mabon and Kevin Simowitz from All Due Respect, an exciting project that seeks to set new labor standards and ensure fair wages for community organizers.

This is Season Three, Episode Eight. In this episode, we explore Talent-Investing Principle #3: “Address the Problem, Not Just the Symptoms.” This principle is all about ending the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce, not just tackling the symptoms of the deficit, such as employee burnout and turnover. To learn about the Eight Guiding Principles of Talent-Investing, listen to Episode One of this season. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl. All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found on our episode show notes page or at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast. Find all the episodes of this podcast and other resources on our website, fundthepeople.org.

When politicians and elected officials try to brand nonprofits as “thugs,” “sleazebags,” and “terror-supporting orgs”, will you freeze? Take flight? Or stand up and fight back?

In this episode, you’ll get:

1. Tips on how the incoming Trump Administration may behave toward philanthropy and the nonprofit sector, and some important ways your organization can prepare and respond;

2. An overview of what FTP did for nonprofit workers in 2024, how we’ll build on that work in 2025, and how you can plug-in; and

3. You’ll get a sneak peak of what’s up next on FTP Podcast S7

There’s a lot going on in our country right now: A transition of power to what may be the most anti-nonprofit administration in history; the death and funeral of President Jimmy Carter; and the devastating wildfires in Southern California. It’s a mind-boggling moment. 

But as leaders of the nonprofit workforce, we have to keep our heads on straight and keep our hearts regulated. We make civic life possible. And when government and business fail, we fill in the missing pieces. America needs philanthropy and the nonprofit sector to be strong and enduring now and this year and in the coming years.

In the first half of this solo episode, Rusty shares three ways the Trump Administration may behave toward nonprofits and philanthropy, and offers three recent examples that inform these assumptions. He implores listeners and the entire sector to not just prepare to defend and protect our own organizations, but to speak out in defense of the entire sector, and to communicate boldly and proudly about the value of the sector and our workforce for our economy, democracy, and communities. 

In the second half of the episode, Rusty updates you on what Fund the People did for the nonprofit workforce in 2024, and how we will keep this work going in 2025. And he ends with a sneak peak of some of the upcoming guests and topics in the next set of episodes in Season 7 of the Fund the People Podcast.

Resources:

• Fund the People one-page overview

• Funding that Works Academy

• Talent Justice Pledge

• Strong Nonprofit, Strong Democracy Toolkit

• Stop the Nonprofit-Killer Bill (HR 9495) Toolkit (archived from 2024)

• Follow Fund the People on LinkedIn

• Follow Rusty Stahl on LinkedIn

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠.

In Episode 9, we explore the scarcity mind-set inside organized philanthropy itself as a major source of the deficit of investment in the nonprofit workforce. We sit down with Kris Putnam-Walkerly, a long-standing consultant to the funding community (and a past consultant to Fund the People), Kris’s new book, Delusional Altruism, forcefully articulates a litany of self-defeating funder behaviors and attitudes. Our conversation with Kris focuses on a major premise of the book: that funders try to “save money on all the wrong things,” including supporting their own staff, and the staff of grantee organizations. As Kris writes in the book, directly addressing funders: “As you know, your grantees are comprised of people. Don’t you want the most talented people doing their best work to help you fulfill your mission? Of course you do. Yet time and gain, funders withhold investment in grantee talent and infrastructure. You have a scarcity mindset, and it’s undermining your effectiveness.”

Listen in to the episode to hear more: 

• Kris shares about her journey in philanthropy and the nonprofit sector
• Why Kris wrote her book “Delusional Altruism” and an overview of the main themes
• The biggest self-created challenge facing philanthropists
• Funders not investing in their own learning and development, undermining their own staff
• 8 things every philanthropist can do to change the world in uncertain times
  

This is the second episode of Talent Matters Remix, our three-episode series in partnership with ProInspire, co-hosted by Monisha Kapila and Rusty Stahl.

In this episode, Monisha and Rusty talk with Stephen Bauer about supporting a diverse and inclusive next generation for the nonprofit workforce. Steve reflects on the article he wrote about developing leaders who are both value-based and results-driven, which was part of the Talent Matters series on the Stanford Social Innovation Review blog. He discusses how his experience and thinking has evolved in the seven years since the piece was published in summer 2014.

We also discuss Steve's extensive journey through the nonprofit sector, including his experience as an AmeriCorps alum, his impactful work at the Nonprofit Leadership Alliance (and specifically the Nonprofit Workforce Coalition), and, finally his decade long career at Public Allies, where he now serves as Chief of Staff. Other topics discussed:

• Public Allies Program, its values-based curriculum and impact on organizations.
• Asset-Based Community Development and how it helps build up the capacity of any community to lead itself.
• Changing and influencing the nonprofit organizational culture by hiring people from the communities that they work for.
• The need for a common set of values in the sector.
• Navigating the racial reckoning and pandemic as a white man.
• How Public Allies managed to go virtual and thrive during the pandemic.
• His experience as a Chief of Staff and why two Chief of Staff jobs are not the same.
• Possible impact of the CORPS Act on AmeriCorps.
• Lessons learned as Interim CEO and making decisions based on values.
• What would be Stephen’s “encore career”.
  

This episode is part two of Talent Matters Remix. We’re partnering with ProInspire to bring you this 3-part series of episodes on the Fund the People Podcast. Talent Matters Remix, which will be released throughout July, will revisit Talent Matters, a 2014 series of essays on the Stanford Social Innovation Review (SSIR) blog. These special episodes will be co-hosted by yours truly and Monisha Kapila, ProInspire Founder and Co-CEO. Monisha helped to curate and write the Talent Matters blog series, and our conversations will feature three of the other authors of those posts.

A lot has changed in our society in the seven years since 2014, when those blog posts appeared. We’ve had seismic changes in our politics, economy, society, and the nonprofit sector and philanthropy. It’s time to revisit, reflect, and remix it!

*All resources & links mentioned in the show can be found here at fundthepeople.org/podcast.

Burnout is often cited by nonprofit workers as one of their greatest challenges. So in this episode, we speak with the “guru of burnout,” Dr. Christina Maslach, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California at Berkeley. Dr. Maslach is known as one of the pioneering researchers on job burnout, which she has studied since the 1970s. She created the Maslach Burnout Inventory (MBI), the most widely used research measure in the burnout field. Prof. Maslach is author or co-author of many books on the subject of burnout, including “Burnout: The Cost of Caring”; “The Truth About Burnout”; and “Preventing Burnout and Building Engagement: A Complete Program for Organizational Renewal”.

To wrap-up Season One’s exploration of the challenges facing the nonprofit workforce, Dr. Maslach gives us a deep dive into burnout -- her research agenda, approaches, and findings over the years. We discuss definitions of burnout. And she shares strategies for addressing burnout by increasing meaning, positivity, autonomy, and purpose in the workplace.

Tune in to today's episode to hear about:

• Dr. Maslach's personal and professional journey into her work on burnout
• Her perspective and research into what defines burnout and how it relates to caring work
• How burnout is a systemic problem, not an individual problem
• The six areas of “fit” between people and their jobs
• How to address burnout in the workplace
  

Check out the show page on our blog for more information on Dr. Maslach & links to the books and resources mentioned during the episode.

Pay equity is a critical factor in attracting and retaining talent in the nonprofit sector, and organizations need to address pay disparities to ensure their long-term sustainability.   

Our guest today is Sally Loftis, Managing Director of Loftis Partners, who discussed pay equity and the importance of investing in staff. We talk about the challenges faced by nonprofits in attracting and retaining talent, emphasizing the need for competitive pay and benefits that reflect the rising cost of living.   

We also discuss the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the nonprofit workforce and the need for organizations to adapt to the changing needs of their employees. Ongoing feedback mechanisms and a commitment to understanding the systemic needs of employees are essential for creating a workplace culture that is not just equitable, but also sustainable.

Guest Bio

Loftis Partners is a 100% woman-owned human resources consulting firm that works at the intersection of human resources, organization improvement, and social change. Sally founded Loftis Partners after working internally as a strategic HR practitioner. Since 2020, she's worked with 60+ organizations across 15 states and 3 continents.  

Resources

Loftis Partners

Pay Equity Collective — Loftis Partners

https://fundthepeople.org/toolkit/casemaking/value-chain/

Buy the book: The Pay Equity Guide for Nonprofit Organizations

Instagram

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠.

In this episode, you’ll get an inside view of the contradictions funders face when it comes to investing in the nonprofit workforce. And you’ll get the back-story of how Fund the People’s California Talent Justice Summit came to be.

Fund the People’s President and CEO, Rusty Stahl, speaks with Leslie Payne, a former Initiative Director at the James Irvine Foundation, and current principal at Penlight Advising. Leslie shares her journey in recognizing the contradiction of being a workforce and jobs development funder while not addressing job quality in the grantee nonprofits organizations that provide workforce development services to Californians. The conversation explores how this realization led to the California Talent Justice Summit and other initiatives to improve nonprofit job quality.

The discussion highlights several tensions in addressing nonprofit job quality, including funding restrictions, wage compression, and sustainability challenges. Leslie emphasizes the importance of funders using their voice alongside their dollars, nonprofits understanding their full costs, and creating mechanisms for staff input. A recurring theme is the need for nonprofit leaders to develop the capacity to say "no" to certain opportunities when they would compromise staff wellbeing, even when the work would benefit communities they serve.

Tune in to hear about these key points:

• The contradiction of being a ‘quality jobs funder’ while not addressing job quality in nonprofits that are grantees and where funders had the most influence.

• Program-specific funding can create pay inequity within nonprofit organizations when funders mandate higher wages only for staff in funded programs.

• Wage compression occurs when raising the floor of wages without raising the ceiling, causing resentment among longer-tenured or higher-responsibility staff.

• Trust-based philanthropy is complicated when it becomes specific about job quality standards, creating tension in funder-grantee relationships.

• Program-specific grants are particularly problematic compared to general operating support, which provides flexibility while funders can still use their voice to encourage better job quality.

• Nonprofits face constant pressure to grow and innovate, but lack incentives or tolerance to stop programs even when staff are stretched thin.

• Leaders need to build the capacity to say "no" to certain opportunities and create mechanisms for staff input on priorities and job quality needs.

  
  

  Bio

  Leslie Payne has worked for mission-driven organizations throughout her career including work in philanthropic advising, financial services for the underbanked, and digital organizing. She was most recently an Initiative Director at the James Irvine Foundation where she oversaw grantmaking related to job access and economic justice. She now works as an independent consultant focused on participatory strategy development. 

  
  

  Resources

  Leslie Payne on LinkedIn

  https://haassr.org/blog/we-need-to-talk-about-nonprofitjob-quality-more/

  https://ncg.org/news/resourcing-nonprofit-ecosystem-our-first-line-defense

  Nneka Payne podcast episode

  
  

  You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Welcome to the Fund the People Podcast and our new special series, “Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy.”

Why “Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy”? Because powerful nonprofits are part of a strong democracy, and a strong democracy benefits from powerful nonprofits. When nonprofits are under attack, democracy is under attack. And when democracy is at risk, nonprofits are at risk. It’s clear that investing in the nonprofit workforce (both paid and unpaid) is crucial to building powerful nonprofits. The Trump Administration’s anti-American attacks on philanthropy and the nonprofit sector are already weakening our democracy. And these attacks are also destabilizing nonprofit jobs in the U.S. and around the world, and creating extreme and unnecessary strain on nonprofit people and the communities we serve.

Listen to FTP Podcast host Rusty Stahl as he launches the Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy Campaign to understand and frame the issues, inform the sector about what’s happening; and mobilize the sector and the country to protect and strengthen our treasured nonprofits. As part of that effort, he will be discussing these current affairs here on the podcast every other Wednesday morning on our Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy episodes. These episodes will provide valuable updates, commentary, analysis, calls to action, and special surprises, of course. For more info, check our website at www.fundthepeople.org!

Resources:

• https://www.learningtogive.org/resources/native-american-philanthropy

• https://causeinspiredmedia.com/news-article/brief-history-tax-exempt-sector/#:~:text=The%20Wilson%2DGorman%20Tariff%20Act,exempt%20status%20for%20charitable%20organizations.

• https://www.franklinva.com/government/departments/fire-and-rescue/fire-and-rescue-history/

• https://www.paabolition.org/

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morris_(financier)

• National Webinar: Executive Actions and their Impact on Charitable Nonprofits (57:38) recording and slides, National Council of Nonprofits, Feb. 7, 2025.

• The Impacts of the Recent Executive Orders on Nonprofits, National Council of Nonprofits, updated regularly.

• Webform: Effects of Executive Actions on Nonprofits – Please complete if your organization is continuing to experience issues with federal funding

• Resources to navigate uncertainty, Minnesota Council of Nonprofits, Feb. 7, 2025.

• Contact your members of Congress

Announcing a special new program: the Funding That Works Academy! Learn about our talent investing framework via an online course with versions available for all types of nonprofit professionals.

Could it be that nonprofit leaders collectively have the knowledge and skills we need to not only survive but thrive -- and we just need to invest in sharing what we know with each other? The Pierce Family Foundation nurtures organizational capacity and individual leadership by investing in peer-to-peer skills-sharing among nonprofit workers. In this episode, we go deep with Heather Parish, the Foundation’s Co-Executive Director. Heather is joined by Lisa May Simpson, Vice President of Learning and Engagement at Forefront. We talk with Lisa about how Forefront, the Illinois association of funders and nonprofits, partners with Pierce Family Foundation to offer peer-learning among nonprofit folks and funders across the state. We discuss how investing in the nonprofit workforce in a place-based context can work to address issues of racial inequity, burnout, and the difficulties of tackling complex social problems.

This episode spotlights how one foundation has made an ongoing commitment to supporting “healing justice” as part of its grantmaking.  We're pleased to speak with Desiree Flores, Executive Director of the General Service Foundation.

As they say on the Foundation's website, "Social justice work can be affirming, invigorating, and nourishing. But for leaders in the struggle, the work can also be rife with conflict, overwork, isolation, trauma, and oppression...we have heard movement leaders struggling increasingly with burnout and exhaustion. At GSF, we’ve been exploring how we, as funders, can support movements in creating space to cultivate resilience, wholeness, and well-being among the individuals and organizations that comprise our movements."

Toward that end, since 2018 General Service Foundation has funded healing justice work in two ways: 

• Supporting organizations that offer healing and resilience services and trainings to social justice leaders and organizations, and
• Supporting the Foundation's grant partners (aka grantees) with healing justice stipends.

This is the third in our three-episode series called "How Funders Can Support Nonprofit Workers in the Age of Burnout."

This episode and the series it's a part of are based on Fund the People's presentation at the Center for Effective Philanthropy Conference in Fall of 2023. Our session focused on how funders can support nonprofit workers in the age of burnout. Thanks again to CEP for including us in the conference.

Go to our website for a transcript of this episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠, a peer learning experience that provides capacity building, strategic resources, and a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

Have you ever thought that funder-sponsored organizational ‘capacity building’ may be detrimental to nonprofit workers and their communities? Today we talk about concrete ways we could improve the framing and practice of capacity building to better support the brilliance and resilience of diverse nonprofit workers and organizations.

Today's guests are Melissa DeShields and Marcus Littles from Frontline Solutions, a Black-owned and -led social change consulting firm. We discuss our guests recent Nonprofit Quarterly articles about why the term “capacity building” should be retired, and ways to improve the practice itself under whatever title it goes by.

How can funders think and act differently regarding grantee capacity?And how can nonprofit leaders respond to funders, and/or proactively design their own efforts? Learn more about these questions and more on today’s episode.

Go to our website for a transcript of the episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. While you’re there, browse our library of amazing guests and conversations from Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. You can find the podcast, our blog, free tools, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠⁠⁠, a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!

This episode focuses on why investing in nonprofit staff is part of effective giving and grantmaking, and why funders too often remain blind to this important dimension of philanthropic practice. Rusty sits down with the Center for Effective Philanthropy’s Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette to talk about the challenge of giving feedback and discussing staffing issues between grantmakers and grantees. The discussion also explores the tools offered by the Center for Effective Philanthropy for creating feedback loops in the sector; improving philanthropic practice; and addressing equity through investing in nonprofit leaders.

Tune in to hear more about: 

• Grace & Phil’s journey in philanthropy and the non-profit workforce
• How CEP is different than other philanthropic organizations out there  
• The benefits and challenges of creating feedback loops between philanthropic organizations, funders, and non-profits
• Funders blindspots around investing and supporting non-profit workforce staff and grantees
• A look at Grace & Phil’s “Giving Done Right” Book & their new Podcast under the same name
  

Resources discussed during the episode:

• Giving Done Right Podcast
  
• Giving Done Right Book (2019)
  
• “New Attitudes, Old Practices: The Provision of Multiyear General Operating Support” (2020 Research Report from The Center for Effective Philanthropy)
  
• A Call to Action: Philanthropy’s Pledge During COVID-19 (funder pledge hosted by Council on Foundations)
  
• Trust-Based Philanthropy Project
  
• Grantee Perception Reports (a service available from The Center for Effective Philanthropy)
  
• Foundation Staff Perception Reports (a service available from The Center for Effective Philanthropy)
  
• “Strengthening Grantees: Foundation and Nonprofit Perspectives” (2018 research report from The Center for Effective Philanthropy)
  
• “Nonprofit Challenges: What Foundations Can Do” (2013 research report from The Center for Effective Philanthropy)
  

In this episode, we speak with Roger Nozaki, Vice President at the Barr Foundation. You’ll get the rare opportunity to hear a foundation executive thinking through their work supporting nonprofit sector effectiveness.

Roger shares his evolving ideas along the continuum from investing at the level of individuals - in particular executive directors - toward investing in “people-systems”, and a regional talent ecosystem for nonprofits. We discuss how racial equity can be bolstered through such efforts, and Roger shares how the Barr Fellowship exemplifies the connections between nonprofit organizational capacity, leadership development, and workforce development.

Find more information on Roger Nozaki & the resources mentioned in this episode here: fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast/

In this episode, you’ll gain important insights into current issues in the nonprofit workforce, and how professional development is evolving in our sector, particularly but not exclusively as it relates to leaders and workers of color. Our guest is Yolanda Coentro of the Institute for Nonprofit Practice, one of the fastest-growing and most exciting professional development providers for nonprofits. Founded in 2007, the Institute now offers a portfolio of programs that serve nonprofit leaders from early-career all the way through the executive level.

Go to our website for a transcript of the episode and links to the resources discussed in the episode. While you’re there, browse our library of amazing guests and conversations from Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. You can find the podcast, our blog, free tools, and other resources on our website, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fundthepeople.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Season 6 is sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Loftis Partners⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They've launched the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pay Equity Collective⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a supportive community for nonprofits seeking pathways to pay equity. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠payequitycollective.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! Loftis Partners – Empowering organizations and advancing equity, one collective step at a time!