Eat Sleep Work Repeat (brucedaisley.com)

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Seth Godin has been one of the world's freshest thinkers since before the internet was on solid food.

After a first career packaging books, he then rose to his own fame creating permission marketing.

His blog is many people's favourite stop on the web bus route picking up a million passengers every day.

We use his latest book This is Marketing as the model to bring to reinventing your workplace culture. What's the way to use his influence strategies to improve your job?

The chat is brilliant and goes everywhere. Clearly Eat Sleep Work Repeat isn’t a marketing podcast but everyone can learn something from Seth.

Contact the show podcast@eatsleepworkrepeat.fm

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Two practical case studies this week. Businesses who have pulled back the curtain to show how they brought Purpose and Autonomy to life. Brilliant examples of companies trying new things and having success from them.

Rachel Bremer is the Communications Director at ASOS. She talks about how they re-energised 4000 young, ambitious employees to keep the business on an incredible growth path.

Laurie Young is the Development Director of Thoughtbot. He explains that they made one change that allowed them to get 5 days work done in 4 days - and what happened next.

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We're at part 3 of our series about community at work.

Today's guest is one of the most respected community thinkers in the world, Casper ter Kuile, Fellow at the Harvard Divinity School and author of The Power of Ritual. His book is a practical guide to the way that communities come to life, not only is it practical it's also brilliantly written. I found myself annotating a lot of it and it's impossible not to learn from his wisdom on the topic.

“Disconnection sours the sweet things in life and makes them nearly unbearable”

Casper previously wrote a free book with Angie Thurston is at Harvard Divinity School called How We Gather which was a wonderful exploration of how post religious (secular) groups were creating get togethers that seemed to be inspired by the religious communities that went before them. Casper's perspective is wonderful, so respectful of religion even though he sits outside of it.

This series of episodes has been about understanding how our organisations can shape a sense of belonging in us, especially when we're no longer physically together.

I feel like the episodes are a journey. No one has professed to know the answers and there's plenty of cautionary notes. I'm certain anyone trying to shape community in their work will come away with plenty of thoughts after this. Not least that Casper says that it goes strongly against the spirit of community that someone in a community can fire someone else. Community is built on safety. 

In the podcast I also talk about a previous episode on rituals and you can find that here.

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A recording of a Twitter Spaces discussion with Scott Galloway. We talk remote working, why cities will never die, why working hard is Scott's top career advice. Along the way we talk about the power of touch, Goldman Sachs, missing humans and what will come next for work.

The Twitter Spaces app also blings a lot too, sorry about that. I've edited about 200 of them out.

Scott's book Post Corona is a bestseller.

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If you're interested in workplace culture you might like my newsletter makeworkbetter.substack.com

This episode is about the power of diverse thinking. Our guest is the thinker, writer, commentator Matthew Syed.

Matthew represented Great Britain in table tennis at the Barcelona and Sydney Olympics. He’s since gone on to the one of the biggest, most successful business writers in the UK with his books like Bounce in 2010, Black Box Thinking in 2015, a kid’s book You Are Awesome in 2018 and Rebel Ideas: The Power of Diverse Thinking in 2019.

Rebel Ideas has just come out in paperback this week. If you enjoyed this episode please do share it on social media and get in touch via the website, I’d love to hear from you.

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Quite a brainy episode today. Dr Richard Claydon is a someone who likes to question why we claim things - he's a natural challenger. He describes himself as a Transdisciplinary Behavioural Scientist and Ironist.

He writes some interesting (if a bit too long) things on Linked In that a few people sent to me. We had a brilliant chat for well over an hour but i've tried to edit it into something enlightening and digestible.

Richard says something that I've been thinking a lot. We shouldn't be worrying about company culture. Office culture or more probably team culture is the most important thing for us to be focussing on. Richard runs a company called Organisational Misbehaviourist

We talk about how the ideas of strategy and culture have an ongoing battle in business circles. In the 1980s and 90s there was a lot of talk about work culture - he explains that this was because the Japanese businesses that were idolised tended to seem to have a good culture.

Here's why I find academics have such a valuable contribution to this debate. Richard talks about the work of Professor Joanne Martin from Stanford University who spent time looking at whether you could observe a single culture in organisations. And the answer was you never could. Company culture is a nice story we tell ourselves but it's an illusion. When it's most aggressively implemented it leads to people pretending to go along with it with ironic attachment. What a fascinating idea

we talk about Project Aristotle which is a massive piece of work that Google did that looked at the best performing teams. The finding of that work was that the secret of good teams was psychological safety - people feeling comfortable in speaking up with no fear of punishment. Where people could be their complete selves.. This finding drew on the findings of Amy Edmondson - if you're interested in these things here's:

A TED talk by Amy Edmondson

Read more about Google's Project Aristotle here

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Two episodes here listening to some of the people who are challenging, provoking and questioning the status quo.

Tom Goodwin Exec VP at the media agency Zenith in New York. He's the head of innovation down there. But on the web is where Tom is a player. He is Linked In's number 1 influencer in the marketing field. That accolade will set you back 560,000 followers. 

How did he end up there? Well Tom wrote a tweet (or series of tweets) that developed a life of their own. https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/03/in-the-age-of-disintermediation-the-battle-is-all-for-the-customer-interface/

Tom has responded to his internet renown with a new book Digital Darwinism - Survival of the Fittest in the Age of Business Disruption

that's out now. 

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In 2007 as Barcelona were looking to replace their manager they were faced with a difficult challenge. They decided if they were to move on with a strong sense of sustainable success they needed to think about the culture they wanted to build.

They drew up a list of criteria for how they wanted to choose the manager. Interestingly most of the list didn't mention football. Damian Hughes, Professor of Organisational Psychology at Alliance Manchester Business School goes on to explain the Barcelona approach to the challenges they faced.

Professor Hughes gives a 5 state model of culture. That was the work of James Baron and Michael Hannan at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. Buy The Barcelona Way

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Buy A World Without Email

I’ve talked a lot about Cal Newport’s provocations about abolishing email (and Zoom calls) [find them here and here].

And in fact, I had someone last week astonished when I suggested we should try to limit video calls to eight hours a week. They thought I’d lost my mind. How would we get things done unless we were on video calls all day?

This default to video and emails is what Cal Newport calls the Hyperactive Hive Mind.

He’s convinced that we’ll look back at the way we’re working right now and be embarrassed we optimised for what was easy rather than what was productive. Cal outlines how we should be setting about to fix work - by changing our relationship with technology.

It is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant provocation that is unique to him and I think will give all us reason to reflect.

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"Purpose is something that can be found but cannot be given"

For this episode I talk with London Business School professor Dan Cable about what work is going to look like in the future as we contemplate the fall out of coronavirus and homeworking. Clearly a lot of firms aren't going to make it through this completely unprecedented situation and to some extent maybe these discussions might seem like first world problems. The intention is to help us understand how we can use this moment to make work better - never waste a good crisis - as we say in the show.

You can talk about this episode - and more - on our new forum.

Follow Dan on Twitter.

Dr Laurie Santos' happiness course and podcast.

Dan's book Alive at Work is a firm listener favourite.

Find Dan here in gif form.

Listen to Dan's podcast here

READ: Dan talked about a paper saying bosses think less of workers they don't see.

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Inside the rituals of two happy businesses. Over the last couple of months a few people have come up to me to tell me stories about things their companies do.

Firstly Andy Puleston - a Radio 1 alumni - came up to me and chatted to me about some of the things they did during the Andy Parfitt reinvention. Pizza meetings, heroic leaving speeches and lots of private offices filled with eclectic music and chat. I've let this run on because I found it fascinating. Ask me one time how I applied to get a job at Radio 1. Had an interview with Andy Parfitt and everything. Ah well.

Secondly we talk to Claudia Newman - Head of New Business at Young and Rubicon. She tells me about Crisp Thursday and their Start the Week meeting. I loved this chat.

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Can't Even can be ordered now

AHP's original article in Buzzfeed

AHP's newsletter is here

Last year Anne Helen Petersen’s Buzzfeed article about burnout became a viral sensation, spawning a seemingly never-ending wave of ‘Year of Burnout’ headlines. Petersen’s writing triggered such recognition because she rooted it in the ordinary, in everyday experiences that were instantly relatable. She evoked her own life where industrious professional productivity (as a writer) was combined with a weary inability to get things done in her private life.

She initially thought there was something wrong with her. Googling for other people relating their aversion to getting sh!t done domestically, bills sitting unpaid, registrations unfiled, postal votes uncast, chores uncompleted. She realised it wasn’t personal, it was systematic. The way we were living was driving us to a constant feeling of being emotionally & physically spent.

Relatedly, it was sad to read of the passing of David Graeber this week. As an academic he was an unexpected icon of progressive politics but more than anything he was someone who invited us to revisit our preconceived ideas about how society functioned. Graeber had mused in his book ‘Bullshit Jobs’, wondering what had happened to the 15-hour week that in 1930 John Maynard Keynes had predicted by the end of the 20th century. He wondered whether it was indeed possible but societally we might have to reorganise the world of work to achieve it. Insurgent thinking for many, but there are echoes of this conjecture in Petersen’s book. Some of her thoughts might find resonance with frazzled younger workers wondering why they won’t be free of their student loans until 2045 and looking at house prices simmering away at 10 times their salary.

AHP reminds us that despite a whole genre of self-improvement literature that tells us that our personal actions can resolve burnout - or that, come on slouch, you need to be grittier, we need to point the finger at the actions of our firms, not ourselves. Ultimately she suggests that our casual acceptance of the way we’re working is having a toll on our psyche that can’t be easily unspun by productivity hacks and meditation apps. As Taylor Lorenz notes on the jacket, the book “is a compelling exploration of… how an entire generation has been set up to fail”.

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When the biggest company in the world slipped from its throne how did a new CEO try to rescue it using culture. What did Satya Nadella do? How did it succeed, how did it fail? What can any of us do to change our company culture?

Download the PDF of the episode's lessons.

This episode draws on the outstanding paper by Herminia Ibarra, Aneeta Rattan and Anna Johnston from London Business School.

Here's the famous cartoon about Microsoft (vs other tech firms of the time)

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Sam Conniff Allende has spent his career building a youth marketing agency. Now he's concluded that the way to inspire younger workers is to channel the energy of the Golden Age of Piracy. In a fun discussion of pirates old and new Sam explains how the world would be a better place if we all tried to be a bit more pirate.

Sam's book Be More Pirate is published on 3rd May 2018. You can follow him on Twitter @SamConniff and @BeMorePirate

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Today's episode is a further exploration of how firms will try to evolve their culture by hiring Community Managers. If you've not listened to last week's episode featuring Sarah Drinkwater pull up, back up and tuck in to that one first. Sarah said the person I should talk to is Abadesi Osunsade from Brandwatch - and so that's who we are talking to today. Abadesi's title is VP Global Community & Belonging at the 500 strong organisation.

We talk about seeking to get better at Diversity & Inclusion, giving voice to teams (and applicants) and how to build community in organisations who are no longer together.

Abadesi mentions Square's Rise program. This is the scheme that ensures there's always one minority candidate at the last stage of each hiring process. You'll find more details on it here. (note I couldn't find it on the UK website so maybe stay on the US site when it asks if you want to move).

Here's Abadesi's book and the other organisation she's part of The Hustle Crew.

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Image by @claybanks at Unsplash.

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"We think people want to be liked, but they need to be needed".

A thoroughly stimulating discussion here - that I've allowed to run long because it's so interesting.

I met a brilliant guy called Misha Byrne who worked for a company called NeuroPower. I was so taken with what he was talking about (applying neuroscience to work) that we arranged to meet up, and he brought Peter Burow, the founder of the company along.

There's some wonderful stuff in this discussion:

• the important of Relatedness in teams
• how we build affinity between people who might not initially see a connection with each other (in this case doctors from India and Pakistan)
• how good teams don't avoid conflict, they are comfortable with it
• how resilience can be built in teams
• "We think people want to be liked, they need to be needed"

The model that they use in their work is RELISH: Relatedness, Expression, Leading the pack, Interpersonal connection, See Progress and Hope for the future

We talk a lot about Matt Lieberman's book, Social.

Misha invites listeners to drop him an email you can do that here. Peter's book is here or you can read it for free here.

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Dave Trott is a creative director, copywriter, and author. A colossus of advertising who has been awarded a Lifetime Achievement Award by D&AD.

I chatted to him at the IAB Leadership Summit in St Albans.

It's not a talk about work culture as such - just a fascinating chat with someone whose job it was to be creative for a living. Dave's latest book Creative Blindness is a riot of colourful stories and lively lessons. Follow Dave on Twitter.

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Around 12 months ago myself and Sue Todd created the new work manifesto. It was an attempt to start the debate about simple things that we can change. You can find it on the podcast website eatsleepworkrepeat.fm.

It's had a briliant response, research companies have asked to help validate it, different professions like doctors and police have been in touch asking if they can adapt it for their working. Lots of companies have told me they've been trying it out with their teams.

One person contacted me and offered to share the experience and learnings of the New Work Manifesto in their team. And that was Tom Kegode. I went down one lunch time a few weeks ago to meet Tom and his team at Lloyds Bank Group. Tom is an innovations programme manager who has helped share the new work manifesto across LBG.

You're going to hear discussion of various parts of the manifesto and the way that people at Lloyds are trying to make work more positive and enjoyable. Round the table were Lloyds employees Sam, Kate, Miranda, Verica, Ben, Jess, Heather, Shirley, Alastair, Dave and of course Tom himself.

If you're interested in using the New Work Manifesto it all on the website, it's not copyright. Use it, change it, remix it, edit it but whatever you do please hit me on linked in or via twitter to tell me how you got on.

This is the last in the series. I'll be back after the summer with a stellar list of the people who have done the best research on work, laughter, philosophy and workplace creativity.

if you want to hear those episodes you're best subscribing via your podcast app.

I appreciate you listening. Please do get in touch.

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Today's episode is for anyone who is curious about how human's tick. Work ultimately is a practice of the brain and how our brain processes and reacts to things is a fascination to me.

I have a friend who is studying neuroscience and a couple of years ago at someone's wedding I was chatting to him and said 'who should I be reading?' and he said the best voice in the field was a psychologist called Lisa Feldman Barrett. Sure enough I looked her up and her book How Emotions Are Made was dazzling and brilliant. it covers themes of understanding emotions.

One of the things that Lisa believes is that we don' t arrive programmed with emotions, we learn them along the way. The more emotions we're taught to understand the more we can feel. In her book she says people who read fiction books and learn to appreciate nuance of emotion end up feeling a wider range of emotions. She has a new book out. How Emotions Are Made is several hundred pages and her new book 7.5 Lessons About the Brain is much shorter and is very accessible. So if you're looking for a simple explainer about the brain it is a brilliant summary (I have disclose I way preferred the first book).

Along the way you're going to discover that no your dog isn't capable of feeling guilt, we talk about the test (that was in a previous episode) called the Reading The Mind in the Eyes test.

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James Doty is a neuroscientist who has spent his career trying to demystify the power of the brain. He's a Clinical Professor of neurosurgery at Stanford University and founder and director of the Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education.

If you watch his TED Talk you're going to fall in love with James, a gentle thoughtful guy. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Into the Magic Shop: A Neurosurgeon's Quest to Discover the Mysteries of the Brain and the Secrets of the Heart.

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Read more on the Good Jobs Strategy

Pre-order the Joy of Work

If you like this the easiest way to get it is to subscribe on Apple podcasts - give us a rating while you’re there.

Zeynep Ton is a Professor of Operations Management at the MIT Sloan School of Management.

She studies the retail sector and the way that some firms have invested in paying more and doing more for their workers. She studied firms like QuikTrip, Trader Joes, Mercador in Spain - she found that firms that treat their workers better achieve better results.

Quik Trips profit is double the retail average - all of her firms are more profitable and show consistent growth. And this is work that needs doing in 2012 The Independent reported that only 1 in 7 British supermarket workers earned a living wage.

We’ll talk about how they make their jobs happier but the key parts are they make some key decisions upfront (1) offer less (2) standardise and empower their teams (3) they train their workers to do all of the jobs and (4) they operate with slack - with spare capacity.

When I studied Zeynep's work - and even more so when I chatted to her I thought there's something in this that every single company can use.

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Bjarke Ingels is the number 1 architect in the world. His buildings are taking the world by storm with their fearless disregard for the conventions and norms of our dull cities. Bjarke's buildings are both fun and immensely practical.

By when the greatest in his field is thinking about the future of work how does he design it? Bjarke explains how he is building innovative workspaces - both for others and for his own company.

Bjarke talks both about the cutting edge buildings that he is creating and references some of the accidentally brilliant buildings of the past like Building 20 at MIT which produced 9 Noble prize winners.

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How did Jurgen Klopp build a culture that has caught the attention of everyone in sport. Including interviews with Klopp, Liverpool players and leading management psychologists we discover the 4 secrets of Klopp's culture at Liverpool (data, a simple plan, inclusivity, psychological safety).

You’ll find episodes, transcripts and other good stuff on the website EatSleepWorkRepeat.com.

Best articles to read more:

BEST READ: New York Times on Liverpool and data

Melissa Reddy interview

A look at Klopp

How to improve engagement

Data and Liverpool

WATCH: How Jürgen Klopp made Liverpool BELIEVE again

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There was an incredible response to the episode with Chris hayward last week. I know that Chris was really touched with the response. He’s not on Twitter but I know he was responding to some people on Linkedin last week.

Today’s episode is much lighter in tone but it’s fascinating rare opportunity to get a different perspective into another world. During the summer someone at GCHQ got in touch and asked whether it would be of interest to get an insight into the modern world of spying and intelligence. I’ve been very fortunate that since I’ve been doing this podcast I’ve been invited to M15, to M16 and inside the SAS so I was delighted to go inside GCHQ. Especially as I was allowed to record it and have one of the first interviews with someone inside GCHQ.

GCHQ (government communication headquarters - as its never known) was created in 1919 after the first world war as a way to gather intelligence to assist the British Government and UK military.

It’s always had a unique culture - harking back to its old site at Bletchley Park where – deliberately – everyone worked in huts so the right hand didn’t know what the left was doing to maintain secrecy. The code breakers of Bletchley park were famously principally women and were credited with helping to end the war 2 years ahead of what would otherwise have occurred.

I was fortunate to get a very rare interview with Jo Caven, a director at GCHQ, and one of the few people who are allowed to confirm they work at the organisation. It's a fun discussion - there's a few laughs in there - not least because Jo has a good sense of fun and entertains my more excitable questions.

Some interesting reading:

• Spying in the digital age
• Drab office was GCHQ base
• UK is a spying leader

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"Tuesday and Thursday, see you there. BOOM!"

A lot of us are starting to long for human contact again and the office feels like a happy place to be. But what does the office of the future look like? I chatted to the brilliant Antony Slumbers (follow him on Twitter here). Antony is regarded as a visionary thinker in the real estate market and runs a course for you to learn to be the same.

Antony is incredibly incisive:

• "in the same way we realised we didn't need a shop to go shopping we've realised we don't need an office to do work".
• "no company wants an office, they want a productive workforce"

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If you're interested in workplace culture you might like my newsletter makeworkbetter.substack.comMarcus Buckingham is a research who has specialised in debunking some of the lies that pervade our jobs. His discoveries are eye-popping. Company culture can't be measured, 'OKRs' (goals) never work and much more. It's a compelling and entertaining listen.

Get in touch to tell Bruce what you thought - or leave us a review at Apple podcasts.

Eat Sleep Work Repeat is part of #PODSTRIKE.

Buy 9 Lies About Work

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Here he is, the philosopher king. Alain de Botton is the man that wrote philosophy books that sold like airport thrillers. He's sold millions of books reflecting on life, work and happiness.

We share a wonderful discussion about what role work can fulfil in our lives, where education is going wrong and how we can use psychology to help diagnose the challenges of our problem colleagues.

Alain's two new books from The School of Life are How to Get on With Your Colleagues and How to Think More Effectively

You can follow him on Twitter.

School of Life has over 5m subscribers on YouTube.

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Over the last 35 episodes we've discussed improvements to work, now we bring them all together.

In discussion with Sue Todd, CEO of Magnetic, we discuss the New Work Manifesto. The manifesto is an 8 point plan, designed to help us improve work and get more from our time at our desks.

The manifesto can be found at www.newworkmanifesto.org. Send us your thoughts and suggestions.

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There is no better guest to kick off 2021 than Amy Gallo.

Amy Gallo is a contributing editor at Harvard Business Review writing about workplace dynamics and emotional intelligence. She is co-host of the wonderful Women at Work podcast

She's is the author of the HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict and gave a hit TEDx talk on that subject in 2019.

On the Women at Work podcast, Harvard Business Review staffers Amy Bernstein, Amy Gallo, and Emily Caulfield untangle some of the trickiest problems that women face at work. They talk to some of the sagest advisors on gender, they tell stories about their own experiences, and give practical advice to help women succeed at work.

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Buy The Joy of Work

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Rob Briner is an professor of organisational behaviour at London Queen Mary’s University - he's rated the top HR thinker in the UK. This is a brilliant chat. Very much essential listening for anyone interested in HR but also worth listening for those of us who sit thinking ‘what do HR actually do?’ or what should we do to improve things round here.

We talk about ‘evidence based management’ - which you can find out more about here: The Centre for Evidence Based Management. I’d researched it but he explained it way better. He ends up giving me his take on work culture and lots lots more.

Rob outlines some of the pitfalls that any of us make when we set about fixing work. He also explains the challenges of psychology - discussing something called 'the replication crisis' about large scale studies.

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A lot of people have asked me if I’m going to do an episode on the importance of play.

One of the challenges of the word play is that its such a broad word and its associations aren’t always helpful when it comes to bringing everyone with us but today's guest I think shows what an incredible thing it can be.

Heidi Edmundson is an emergency medicine consultant in the Emergency Department at the Whittington Hospital. She wrote this article in the Guardian in January: I introduced fun to the lives of A&E staff. The laughter was infectious

We explore themes of how you turn individuals into a team? This inspirational senior doctor recognised that exercises her team did on their downtime seemed to energise and inspire them - and made them more connected. I think you’ll end up wanting to read more of the theatrical exercises that Heidi used to help forge a tightly bonded team?

Here is a full guide to Forum Theatre and its games.

This goes deep - can playing games with each other be a simple way to remind ourselves of each other’s humanity where that empathy seems to be a super power that helps us do a better job?

I loved this discussion so much - you can keep up with Heidi here on her Twitter.

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This is the first of two read-alongs in August. Stacks of listeners and newsletter subscribers are reading along on two culture books with us, today we’re talking about Legacy by James Kerr. In two weeks we’re talking about What You Do Is Who You Are by Ben Horowitz. Even you don’t read them the podcast here will cover the lessons of the books for anyone interested in workplace culture - and learning together. Go to the newsletter to join in with the conversation.

The All Blacks are the most successful rugby team of all time, in fact they have been called the most successful team in any sport. Drawing their players from a male population of just 2.5m New Zealand adult men, they don’t have any size advantage of the pool they draw from (if size determined outcome then England have more rugby players than the rest of the world combined). But the importance of team values have helped the team create and sustain a meaningful connection with the legacy of the team.

‘Culture is like an organism, continually growing and changing’.

Listen to the discussion then join the conversation about the key themes - either reply to the newsletter or add your comment in the chat threads here:

• Sweeping the sheds/no dickheads
• Rituals define the All Blacks’ culture

Divergent vs convergent meetings

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What are other firms doing about returning to work? How can any of us work out the right thing to do? I chat to 4 more firms to hear their plans.

Listen to conversations with Beth Marie Norbury from Babcock International, Tom Ellis from Brand Genetics, Richard from a big secret pharmaceuticals firm and Laura Pleasance from Captify. This is addition to Dan Cullen Shute last episode.

Here's more on my survey I put out last week (from last week's newsletter):

We’ve already heard loud and clear that workers don’t want to return to the old days but we’re starting to hear more about firm ordering workers back to their seating plan. L’Oreal US saw some unwelcomed attention this month when they told workers that if they didn’t come back ASAP they needed to authorise the firm having access to their private medical records.

So what are other firms saying is going to happen next? I got just under 100 qualitative replies to the survey; from pharmaceutical companies to start-ups, charities to defence contractors. The replies detailed different approaches from companies as they try to work out how to act next. The main headlines were:

• Amongst all firms ‘normal’ has been postponed until 2021 - everything at the moment is being framed as interim. 2021 is when firms are expecting to be able to jump start their new culture.
• Just over two-fifths of firms (42%) have told workers they won’t be expected to return to offices until 2021 if they don’t want to. (26% back from September/October onwards, 31% already phasing some return of workers back to the office from August). This finding is consistent with the straw poll that Digiday performed across publishing and media companies.

Some of the most interesting quotations showing the spectrum of positions:

"[an organisation that went from 4 floors to 27 seats] It’s amazing how many of the things people said couldn’t be done from home could once COVID hit. We’re looking at a total rethink on workspaces and what the future looks like - a place for social interaction and collaboration with the ethos that work is something you do not somewhere you go… there’s no going back”

“We issued a survey to understand what our people feel comfortable with, and on that basis have told everyone no one will be asked to work from the office if they prefer not to for the rest of the year”

[We got everyone back to the office in mid July] “we're an office based business and we need to get used to being back in the office as we can't work from home together. No plans announced on long term flexibility but lots of employees are asking (as are new hires)”.

“The success of working from home, and the fact that so many staff have said they now want more flexibility, has lead [the organisation] to put one of our office buildings up for lease. So a full 5 day return to the office for everyone wouldn’t even be possible”.

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If you're looking to get a job sometime in the next decade - and that includes almost all of us - there's a very high probability that you're going to be exposed to a psychometric test. As they become enhanced by AI and made more scaleable via apps these tests are going to go everywhere. So what are the implications for what work is going to look at.

This episode I'm looking into the evolving nature of recruiting and how its changing to accommodate the latest science and also innovations in technology. Firstly I'm going to get my hands dirty testing one of the new evolving candidate testing apps that are starting to emerge. Then I'm chatting to Rich Littledale and he is a chartered psychologist who previously worked at a leadership consulting firm and now helps start ups with their strategic people challenges.

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Just a reminder that all of the episodes are live on the website Eat Sleep Work Repeat.

Rich Littledale runs a company called People Up. In the show he mentioned a blog post - you can find it here.

As Rich there says most orchestras have now introduced blind auditions and in fact most them use carpeted stages to avoid the sound of shoes. Read more here:

https://www.upworthy.com/this-orchestras-blind-audition-proves-bias-sneaks-in-when-you-least-expect-it

https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias

https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Goldin_Orchestrating%20Impartiality.pdf

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Following up the discussion with Andy Rhodes this week it's a second episode about the police. My original plan was to edit both of them to get one episode about the profession but both were too good to chop up. So I want to flag that It's kind of about work culture but also kind of just a brilliant chat with a fascinating person. Consider it as a box set with the other police episode. When it gets into its flow it covers dog shows, walking buses and all manner of brilliance.

Stevyn Colgan joined the police after a bet from his dad - which he explains. I was put on him by our last guest Andy Rhodes who told me about ways they used dog shows to reduce the tension on council estates. Rather than chop it down to just cover the way that Stevyn led innovation in the workplace I've just left it intact. He's too interesting for me to butcher the chat.

Stevyn is the perfect example of a multi level life via his illustrations he became friends with Douglas Adams and ended up being a writer on the TV show QI. He wrote a book about his police problem solving unit work called One Step ahead. He's actually just published a novel called a Murder to Die For.

I'm not gonna lie we spent ages one summer evening sitting in the pub garden of a Amersham pub. My intro is me reminding him about this podcast but the chat it provokes is quite interesting.

If you want to learn more sign up for our newsletter at eatsleepworkrepeat.fm - thanks for listening.

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EAT SLEEP SHORT: Are the robots coming for your job? This year Matthew Taylor delivered a report to the Prime Minister looking at the future of work in the UK. Here he explains his outlook on the future of work and how work can set about being a force to increase happiness.

Matthew Taylor is the CEO of the RSA. He was previously a political strategist working with Tony Blair.

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Today's interviewees: Bhushan Sethi leads PwC's workplace strategy business and Ben Waber is the CEO of workplace analytics firm, Humanyze.

Read the Humanyze research about the way work has changed since lockdown.

Here's the previous episode I recorded with Ben Waber.

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James Bloodworth lived undercover working in Amazon warehouses, care homes and clocked up hours as an Uber driver to see the realities of modern work for millions of Brits. It makes for a fascinating glimpse at the lives of people who often get ignored from the privilege of the open plan.

James' compelling book Hired is out now.

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Lots of listeners have been hitting up my LinkedIn saying how can we make work better if we don't have a full-time permanent job. Emma Gannon might have the answer to their needs.

Emma is a podcaster, writer, broadcaster, blogger... in fact she's the perfect example of the freelance, multi-hyphenate lives that more of us are living in 2018.

A She describes how we can build careers out of freelance living and side hustles. How sometimes we can inspire ourselves and our own creativity with the things we do when we're not doing our main jobs.

Emma's podcast, Ctrl Alt Del is a phenom and her new book The Multi-Hyphen Method is out now.

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Today’s episode is one for those who have an appetite for psychology.

It is by two authors of a brand new book that I was interested to check out because it covers some of the biggest themes that hybrid working is going to impact - the issue of group identity. I genuinely think this is one of the biggest things that companies need to be thinking about right now.

As we discuss a lot of firms have thought about mission or values but the very best organisations create a sense of collective identity in their teams (and look this might be slightly different identity for different themes).

Identity is often seen to be something negative in politics or society - mainly because it is so expertly used by people we don't like. But it's incredibly powerful for any group - and understanding it is vital. Group identity is a big predictor of your likelihood of being vaccinated, clever nations like New Zealand used it to set about creating 'a team of five million' to fight the disease.

The discussion is with by Jay Van Bavel  and Dominic J. Packer who as you’ll hear are both Canadian psychologists practicising in the US. Their book, The Power of Us, is out this week.

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How can we use the power of psychotherapy to help us in our jobs? A brilliant discussion with psychotherapist Naomi Shragai where we talk about how her practice has increasingly brought workplace issues to her coach.

We cover:

• how imposters' syndrome might not be a disaster for your career
• how to tell if your boss is a narcissist
• how to deal with boss who is a people pleaser

If you're a people watcher or amateur psychologist you're going to love this. Naomi's new book is The Man Who Mistook His Job for His Life: How to Thrive at Work by Leaving Your Emotional Baggage Behind

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Over the last few weeks I've been intrigued with the firms who have chosen to bite the bullet and ditch their office. What are their philosophies about getting colleagues together in person? How do they think about recruiting? What software tools do they use? What made them make the leap?

First up I talked to Camilla Boyer who plays a leading role at making the culture at events platform Hopin. Andrew McNeile is the Chief Customer Officer for Thinscale - a company that supplies secure remote working software for outsourcing firms. One of their customers has 375,000 user on their remote work systems. Then I chatted to Lewis Clark at Qatalog he is responsible for storytelling at Qatalog who are remote first (but he spends one day a week in the office).

Then I realised all of these firms were in some way invested in the shift to remote working so I talked to a real person - Lisa Freshwater has been helping Blood Cancer UK ditch their office for good. Finally I chatted to Dan Sodergren whose company YourFLOCK is fully remote.

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Oliver Burkeman was a productivity geek. He was the guy trying to get it all done. He was that person, convinced he could optimise living to get the most out of life, writing about it in a wry, detached way in a Guardian column.

In this episode we talk about his pursuit of elite productivity - but also what it taught him about the ultimate goal of managing one's time. A truly brilliant discussion.

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What can we learn about what is going to happen next with work by chatting to the leaders of the sector that supplies our workplaces? You might think very little. There’s certainly no shortage of people in the commercial property sector who have been intent on suggesting that we need to go back to the rat race of all office/all the time.

But in that space there are some visionaries who are helping us seeing what is staring us in the face. Last year we’ve spoken to Antony Slumbers, on the newsletter I’ve shared links to the Work Bold podcast by Caleb Parker.

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Today I add Richard Pickering to that list. I was delighted to hear Richard, someone whose writing I’ve been following for a couple of years, speak at an event I was presenting at.

We had such a stimulating discussion on the sidelines that I was desperate to persuade Richard to come on here to talk. Richard is the Chief Strategy Officer at Cushman & Wakefield, one of the largest commercial real estate services companies in the world. His job is to make sense of the changes happening in the demand for property and to advise clients where we’re going.

He’s straight talking - both about what the office needs to adapt and how this is going to have ripple effects for companies and cities.

We talk about: 

• How we’ve only just started understanding different modalities of work
• How firms might start including commuting time in the working day
• How cities might start offering public transport for free
• How cities will become younger

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Over the last few weeks the newsletters that have achieved the most resonance were related to having a friend at work. For many of us our favourite jobs were enhanced by having a desk buddy - or a group of friends we could laugh with. But for many people their experience of work is increasingly lonely - maybe they had friends when they were in the office but that experience has transformed in the last two years. Yes, we've managed to get our jobs done, maybe our domestic life has even improved but work just feels a little more isolated and joyless.

How big an issue is this for us? Noreena Hertz is here to persuade you this silent spread of loneliness has wide reaching consequences, both for our organisations and for our societies.

In a brilliant and wide-ranging discussion we discuss why loneliness matters and what any of us should be thinking about to make our experience of work more complete. If you enjoyed this then this week's newsletter covers adjacent themes: sign up here

Photo by Lowie Vanhoutte on Unsplash

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How did thinking about workplace culture increase the profitability of firms?

I was doing some thinking for some businesses over the last few weeks and the work of one person sprung to mind. Zeynep Ton is a professor of operation management at MIT Sloan School of Management. She found herself looking at the challenges that some businesses had with high employee turnover. 

They were losing a lot of people. It was causing their service to suffer - it was also costing them a lot of money training and recruiting people. Sounds familiar?

From this it lead to another understanding. Some organisations by thinking about and planning the employee experience of work create jobs that were less stressful and more rewarding. It struck her that quite often companies don’t want to make decisions or create limitations for fear of upsetting customers. But in the process they become more muddled for customers and less rewarding for employees.

Zeynep goes on to say that the firms who think about these things and set about creating good culture and good jobs (a) are more profitable and have higher revenue (b) build more sustainable businesses so their stock does better.

Here are her 4 pillars:

1. operational simplification
2. standardisation AND empowerment
3. cross-training
4. operating with slack

Good more about the Good Jobs Strategy

Read Zeynep's book

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At this time of year I find myself listening to more podcasts I’ve released two episodes this week. One is a truly brilliant discussion about how simple decisions can transform workplace culture. And the second is not really about workplace culture but is a stimulating reflection on the way we’re living .

A couple of years ago I loved Jia tolentino’s Trick Mirror which was a sparklingly intelligent reflection on the way that the internet is evolving. And along the same lines is a brand new book, Disconnected by Emma Gannon. Emma is increasingly accomplished in multiple fields, she’s a novelist, a non-fiction writer and also an incredibly successful podcaster with over 10 million listens to her podcasts.

She’s written a new book which comes at a time that a lot of us are considering renegotiating relationship with our phone. But how can be not lose what we love about our devices which increasing our connection to those around us - a great discussion.

Along the way we also talk about her brand new writers' journal which you can find out more about here.

Photo by Rahul Chakraborty on Unsplash

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 As we start a new year considerations about the jobs we do have never been more prominent. One headline this year has already suggested that up to three-quarters of us might be considering changing jobs. Intriguingly money doesn't appear to be in the top five reasons to make a change.

I wanted to understand what was going on here, and what any of should be doing about it. Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis are the UK's most respected careers coaches. Their first book The Squiggly Career is a perennial bestseller, and has become adopted into the lexicon of how we talk about a renegotiated relationship with our careers. Their TED Talk has received millions of views. They have a new book out, You Coach You, which offers practical coaching for anyone curious about changing their career. Some of their suggestions - like job scanning - will help you reorientate what you want from your job - and how you can achieve it.

Whether you're thinking about changing work - or just have friends who are considering it - this is a great episode to help us reflect on what we want from our jobs.

Buy You Coach You now

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Two outstanding conversations trying to make sense of what is happening around work. Firstly I chat to Brian Elliott who leads the Future Forum, a group led by Slack. they released a new report surveying workers in the UK, US and other major countries. Here are the topline findings - but the conversation goes way beyond this.

• UK knowledge workers are most likely to say they want flexibility in where they work (81%)
• 60% of UK knowledge workers are more open to changing jobs in the next year
• 69% UK knowledge workers say they want to work hybrid - 58% are currently doing so

Brian also gives a shout out to Donut - a tool to build serendipity.

Then I speak to one of the most respected thought leaders in making sense of the future of work, Julia Hobsbawm is the sought after intelligent voice when it comes to future of work discussions. She chairs the Demos 'Workshift Commission. Her new book, The Nowhere Office is a confident reflection about how we can tackle the future - it’s out for pre-order now.

We talk about office politics, establishing what Leesman call our 'workplace why' - and how we can make hybrid work.

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Professor Lynda Gratton is one of the world's leading experts on business and the future of work. She's on speed dial with the top CEOs and is a regular at Davos and the World Economic Forum. Her HBR cover article about 'doing hybrid right' has been the navigation guide to the last two years for many firms, and she's turned her thinking into a brand new book, Redesigning Work. She shares with me the questions she's asking of leaders in her MBA course and where she thinks work will go next. Along the way she also gives a shout out to her article about management in the remote era.

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Last year I did a few episodes looking to see how firms were tackling the return to the office (the return to work - THE PLACE) but they were all small workplaces. Organisations that could make nimble actions, I wanted to see how a big firm handled these things. I contacted Tom Kegode, the lead for Work:Lab at Lloyds Banking Group. Lloyds employs 70000 people across hundreds of sites. It is logistically intense to make hybrid work for them.

Tom is a brilliant bright leader intent on creating something sustainable and special in the bank. He is thinking of creating co-working in branches. He is leading best practice about different workstyles in an organisation that isn't mandating any rules. In classic egoless style Tom brought along his colleague Josh Reynolds who works in employee experience. You can find them both on Linked In here:

Tom Kegode is the leader for Lloyds’ Work:Lab initiative.

Josh Reynolds sits within colleague experience.

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Caleb Parker is one of the most intelligent commentators on the future of our workplaces (Twitter, his website) and this conversation with him did not disappoint. Caleb is the founder of a flexible workplace offering, Bold, but also host of a truly brilliant commercial real estate podcast called The Work Bold Podcast.

I found Caleb's podcast via Antony Slumbers Twitter feed and it's become part of my weekly routine as it normally drops in time for my Sunday run. (BTW Antony was a former guest who shared with us the perspective of the commercial real estate sector early in the pandemic. I found the dialogue with Antony so rich that I wanted to seek another update from the sector.

The second half of the discussion is especially strong. I ask Caleb to give the stump pitch for the office and his answer is stunning. He also shares a stark warning that 'bad culture is a bigger threat to the office than the pandemic'.

Caleb also shares with us the perspective of his most inspiring guest on his own podcast - who outlined what is a breathtaking approach to the future office.

Here is the episode that he mentions with Michelle Schnieder.

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This episode is greatly enhanced by reading the newsletter that comes with it.

In today’s podcast I talk to two guests who have slightly different perspectives on how to fix the culture of the Met Police.

Dr Megan O’Neill is Associate Director at the Scottish Institute for Policing Research. She has extensively studied the police and has worked closely with them - most notably helping to revise a stop and search policy that was found to be failing. She explains the challenges of the job, and how we should think about getting buy in to reform.

Simon Holdaway is Professor emeritus of Criminology at the University of Sheffield. He joined the police after he left school and was promoted to sergeant. His study about the police has explored the culture of the profession and how themes of race could be more effectively tackled. 

While the police (and the Met) might not feel adjacent to your business there are critical lessons about cultural change.

Four lessons of what good culture requires:

• Space - good culture can't exist when there is no slack in the system
• Voice - workers need to feel like they are heard (Megan says this is part of 'organisational justice') - this makes workers feel valued
• Values - explaining what the organisation stands for,
• Middle management - behind any culture problem there's the need to purge the organisation of cultural misfits - getting the middle management right is the best way to make this take hold

Further information:

• Why drug policy is a racial issue
• In the past I've done two episodes about the police here
• 'We will march with everybody': Houston police chief tells protesters

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Status is a fundamental need for humans.

Such a fascinating discussion today. I recently read Will Storr's brilliant book The Status Game and was so taken with it I invited him on the podcast.

He quotes Professor Brian Boyd when he says that we:

‘naturally pursue status with ferocity: we all relentlessly, if unconsciously, try to raise our own standing by impressing peers, and naturally if unconsciously, evaluate others in terms of their standing’.

In study after study it is found that our wellbeing depends on the degree that we feel respected by other people. One study found that the attainment off status of its loss was ‘the strongest predictor of long-term positive and negative feelings’ in subjects.

I wanted to pick Will's brains to hear more of this - but also to understand how these mechanisms impact us at work. If you're interested in psychology or just a bit of people watching you'll love the reframing that this discussion provides for us. Along the way Will gives us the definitive take on why Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars.

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We're going deeper into the evidence today with two brilliant guests. Anne Raimondi is COO of Asana who were smart enough to have started a major piece of research into how work is evolving just before the world turned upside down. We're also joined by the most in demand brain in the world right now, Professor Nick Bloom. Nick is Professor WFH, an economist from Stanford University who has been researching remote working for over a decade.

Along the way we talk about how the biggest innovations in remote working are yet to come - and are coming from mindblowing places. We talk the changing expectations of Gen Z workers, why Nick doesn't believe we should be giving up our office just yet. We hear where the sweetspot of hybrid working is right now and why a little less freedom and a little more co-ordination is the order of the day.

I was desperately trying to get Nick on the podcast and to land Anne Raimondi at the same time is a wonderful stroke of luck.

Asana's Anatomy of Work Report 2022 is available here. You can access Nick's work here.

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More from Nick

A brilliant listen.

Some key findings from the Asana report:

• 37% of workers say that they don’t have a clear start or finish time to their working day – rising to 53% for Gen Z employees
• Managers spend the most time everyday on work coordination (62%)
• As an organisation grows so does work about work. Employees at medium and large companies spend 59% of their day on it. That’s 5% more time than small businesses 

Compared to one year ago:

• 42% are spending more time on email 
• 40% are spending more time on video calls 
• 52% are multitasking more during virtual meetings 
• 56% feel they need to respond immediately to notifications 
• Despite nearly half of employees (47%) finding it easier to concentrate at home, 41% feel more isolated when working remotely

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If you find yourself becoming interested in the magic of workplace culture one of the go to authors of the subject is today's guest, Dan Coyle.

Dan's 2018 book The Culture Code allowed him to go deep with some of the most successful cultures in the world - in the arenas of business, sport and even the military. He's returning after the blazing success of the Culture Code with a book that gives more of the energy of that title but drawn into a workbook, The Culture Playbook - imagine something like a journal with prompts of what to write.

He joined me for a discussion where we reflect on the challenges of the last 2 years and what any organisation should be thinking about as they set about creating a winning, forward-looking culture.

If you like this sign up for the newsletter - Make Work Better - for a special announcement in 3 weeks

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A wonderful discussion that I think has got immense to richness to it. I chat to the boss of St John's Ambulance Martin Houghton-Brown (Martin on Twitter). I was struck with the power of the lessons about connection and identity - we often find ourselves throwing these terms around casually but Martin's testimony brings it vividly to life.

• Find out more about St John's Ambulance - become a volunteer
• Donate to St John's Ambulance
• Parkrun research: volunteers see a bigger health uplift than the runners

Pre-order Fortitude and get a workplace culture course for free (before 8th July 2022)

The book is about resilience - how we get it wrong, and where it really lies. There are a lot of mistakes made about resilience and increasingly our teams are getting fed up hearing us talk about it. Fortitude explores where resilience really lives.

The early reviews on the book are sensational.

Steven Bartlett said:

‘This is a truly refreshing, captivating and important book that shifted my perception on a topic I thought I knew! A must read.’

Gary Lineker said:

‘A book that confirms what I've always believed, that we can't be resilient on our own. In fact resilience is about all of us being stronger than any of us.’

Oliver Burkeman said:

‘An important and well-timed book. A fascinating and important pushback against the narrow, 

joy-eroding version of 'resilience' that would leave us to sink or swim alone, Fortitude is an 

indispensable guide to a more energising, human, and effective approach to working and 

thriving in a post-pandemic world’

Noreena Hertz, author of The Lonely Century said:

 'A thought provoking exploration of what it takes to get through tough times and a compelling 

endorsement of the power of others to hold us up’.

Nadiya Hussain said:

'A much needed book that unfolds the surprising secrets of resilience. Something I never knew i needed to read but I'm so glad I did, it’s opened up a whole angle of thinking'

Alastair Campbell said:

‘A fascinating analysis of resilience - what it is, what is isn’t and why, when we develop it together, it becomes something better and more important, fortitude. It seems that resilience is a team game.’

Photo by Jorge De Jorge on Unsplash

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“There are two kinds of companies: One is going to embrace work-from-anywhere, and the second is in denial — I feel those companies will lose their workforce. You have to make a choice, as a leader, what kind of company you want to lead” (source)

The words of today's guest have stayed with me for the last few months. I'm so delighted to talk to Professor Raj Choudhury from Harvard Business School who will possibly wake you up from a self-created illusion.

He'll explain:

• why WFA is inevitable
• the role that top talent have in redefining work for everyone
• why 25% is a magic amount of time
• why WFA presents a win-win-win solution for us

I was so looking forward to this and it doesn't disappoint.

Read Professor Choudhury's HBR cover article.

Here is the audio clip I mentioned.

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Two things on the podcast today - at the end of the episode there is a discussion with former guest, Brian Elliott from Slack's Future Forum.

Ahead of that I want to make an announcement about what I've been working on - with my new book Fortitude.

Fortitude is an investigation into the elusive idea of resilience, a book that discovers that resilience is a area filled with mistakes, misdirection and over-promise. The book finds the true secrets of resilience.

You can find out all of about the book here or you can receive my workplace culture course for free if you pre-order it now.

The Future Forum book 'How the Future Works' is available now.

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If you're a user of social media, whether Instagram, Twitter or LinkedIn you'll have seen the work of today's guest.

Sign up for the free Winning Workplace Culture course here if you prefer Fortitude.

Get the Make Work Better newsletter here

Liz Fosslien is half of Liz and Mollie whose perceptive dissections of contemporary anxieties have won hundreds of thousands of fans. Liz talks through her process of creating these atoms of insight and how the response from viewers inspired them to write a new book about how to cope with the major emotions in our lives.

A lovely warm summer conversation. You can follow Liz and Mollie on social media - or buy their new book Big Feelings here

Norrie Norrie Norrie

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To find out more about the workplace culture course go to the website or the book page.

After recent episodes have made a case that the office might be on the way out, today is a voice who dares to say otherwise. Tom Goodwin is an active voice in media - operating somewhere between provocateur and consultant. He has been voted a top 10 voice in Marketing by LinkedIn, one of 30 people to follow on Twitter by Business Insider, and a 'must follow' by Fast Company. 

In the conversation we discuss how there's a danger that we might be turning our backs on something special in the office, 'dog mode' and how the best technology is the technology that we have available to us now.

Tom's new book is a total rewrite of his first book Digital Darwinism.

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Lots of my favourite podcasts have gone on summer break, so I wanted to keep putting some episodes out.

But maybe you don't want something that is too work related in the midst of the summer, so this is an episode that is more psychology and life than workplace culture. It's a lovely discussion with Max Dickins author of 'Billy No Mates'.

I got so much from the book - and from the discussion. Max reflects on the geezerish persona he adopts with workmen in his house and wonders if it's a performance and if it is a performance is it by him, or the workman or both of them. He considers how for many men adult life becomes a process of refusing to demonstrate - and then refusing to experience - joy. As someone asked of him, 'what happened to these men'?

The article that the episode is titled after is here - we discuss it in the show: “Men have no friends and women carry the burden”

Max's book is available now.

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Professor Sophie Scott is the UK's most recognisable neuroscientist, famed for her passion and her ability to excite interest in a complex field. Her new book, The Brain - Ten Things You Should Know is out now and I got in touch to discuss what any of us can learn about the brain. It's a wonderful discussion that included one detail that stopped me in my tracks.

Listen to Professor Sophie Scott on our previous episode about laughter

Royal Institution Christmas Lecture

Why we laugh

Cover image by Hugging Face AI

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Come along to one of my free events in September

We all tell stories all of the time, but what makes a magical, memorable story? What pitfalls should we avoid? This was an issue that I was thinking about. Presentations are stories, and we deliver presentations every day.

In my own investigation I found real value in the book by the storytelling organisation The Moth. I was beyond excited when I saw they were releasing a UK edition of the book. One of the authors Kate Tellers joins me to discuss The Moth's approach to making memorable stories. Kate is a senior director at The Moth, helping people transform into storytellers. But she explains something even more valuable, of how The Moth run workshops that allow colleagues to better connect with each other by sharing their stories with each other. 

How to Tell a Story: The Essential Guide to Memorable Storytelling from The Moth

Carolyn Martin's story about becoming a Catholic Sister (such a beautiful story)

Josh Broder's story about being an extra in a huge film (this is incredible)

Kate's own Moth stories are here

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Lots of discussion right now about firms trying to kick start their workplace culture.

I wanted to explore conversations with leaders who were leading experiments in how to make things feel different.

In what prove to be a pair of candid conversations I talk to two firms who are asking the question if workplaces can be more motivated by trying to vary the ingredients. John Sill tells us how his firm The Foundation are trying out Wednesday plus one, then John Readman tells us how Modo25 have become the latest firm to try the four-day week - with some learnings along the way.

If you like this you can sign up to the Make Work Better newsletter

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Sign up to hear more about Radix Big Tent

Rory Sutherland is one of the most respected brains in the advertising industry, a man whose early endorsement of behavioural economics helped popularise the nascent science. He's also a regular writer for The Spectator and Vice Chief of Ogilvy Group. Rory joins me to interview to talk about my new book, Fortitude, which has become a Sunday Times Bestseller and tackles the myth of resilience.

The event was hosted by a brilliant organisation called Radix Big Tent. Radix Big Trent gives a platform for non-partisan conversations about big policy issues, giving a voice to people and places. It provokes and promotes new conversations about the regeneration and renewal of our society in a non-partisan way, inspiring practical actions which demonstrate the value of political intervention and delivering real change in left behind areas.

It convenes Summits, Festivals, physical and online events around the country that engage local leaders and ordinary people, bringing them into contact with national policy makers and influencers.

If you would like to hear more please sign up on radixuk.org

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Jeremy shares his: free bonus chapter

Jeremy Utley leads some of the most popular courses on creativity and innovation at the d.school of Stanford University. I was delighted to see that he was making his teaching of such popular courses available to a wider audience and chased him for an interview. This is one of his first interviews to talk about his brand new book Ideaflow.

In it he discusses the way to have good ideas, and why most of us aren't willing to do what is required. I loved this discussion. Buy Ideaflow here - and find out more about Jeremy and his co-author, Perry Klebahn, here.

Sign up for the podcast newsletter here.

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Today’s episode is a discussion with Amy Gallo. During the pandemic I had a wonderful discussion about work and where it was going and I was delighted to have another conversation with her two years on. 

Amy is the author of Getting Along: How to Work with Anyone (Even Difficult People) and The HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict. She also co-hosts the Women at Work podcast, and is a contributing editor at Harvard Business Review, where she writes about workplace dynamics.

Articles mentioned:

The Harvard study of human life & wellbeing: The secret to happiness? Here’s some advice from the longest-running study on happiness

Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome  

The myth of bringing your full, authentic self to work  

Amy wrote a wonderful article on psychological safety this week.

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Are there forces at work that might impact the way work feels? Could we use those forces to make work better?

This discussion with Robin Dunbar and Tracey Camilleri took me to places I hadn't expected to go. That hormones, our brains and time would play a part in the relationships we forge at work isn't something that you would expect to find in a company's culture document, but as you'll hear today they forge a vital component of better team work.

Hormones are triggered by emotional interactions with other humans. Uniquely they only tend to work face-to-face. Hormones can help us build affinity with others in a powerful way that is often overlooked.

Brain-size impacts the connections we have with those people. At the core of human experience is our closest one (or two) relationships. There’s a small circle of 4 or 5 people who sit at the heart of our lives, and up to 15 who make up the majority of our time.

And that time is critical for the strength of those connections. We spent 40% of our time with our 5 closest relationships, and 60% with the top 15. By spending time we can become close friends with people in our lives.

The Social Brain by Tracey Camilleri, Samantha Rockey and Robin Dunbar is out now.

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Sign up for the Make Work Better newsletter 

Ellen Scott is the deputy digital editor of Stylist and someone who has achieved recognition for having a sharp eye when it comes to observing the changing face of work.

Ellen was one of the first voices to pick up on the TikTok trend of Quiet Quitting, she's written about 'the ambi-work' movement and continues to give voice to the challenges facing Gen Z and Millennial workers. We talk about whether is as fair a deal today as it always was, and what firms could do to improve things.

You can read some of her past articles here

You'll find Joel Golby's final London Rental Property of the Week linked here.

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Today’s discussion should land you right in the sweetspot of thinking about AI for your own job by taking a step back, by asking yourself how you can connect with AI and why you should.

Today’s guest Professor Costas Andriopoulos explain curiosity is the engine of creativity. And by striving to be curious our minds will surprise us with the creativity that results.

There was a wonderful piece of work five years ago by Francesco Gino from Harvard Business School that looked into curiosity.

It found that of more than 3,000 employees from a wide range of firms and industries, only about 24% reported feeling curious in their jobs on a regular basis, and about 70% said they face barriers to asking more questions at work. 

In a study of 120 employees it was found that natural curiosity was associated with better job performance, as evaluated by their direct bosses.

In the survey of more than 3,000 employees mentioned earlier, 92% credited curious people with bringing new ideas into teams and organizations and viewed curiosity as a catalyst for job satisfaction, motivation, innovation, and high performance.

Professor Costas Andriopoulous is a Professor of Management and Associate Dean for Entrepreneurship at Bayes Business School, City of London University.

Links for today:

Professor Costas' book: Purposeful Curiosity: How asking the right questions will change your life

Promptbase - is a marketplace for AI prompts (you’ll get the best value from it if you sign up for a paid subscription on Midjourney). Here’s my own experiments

If you’re interested in generative AI for business then the posts by Ethan Mollick are essential to follow (‘Come up with names for a pasta restaurant Now read the Igor Naming Guide on how to name companies, give me better suggestions. Check those names for trademark violations. Make up unique names that won't violate trademark, explain them’) 

I find that having inspiration can prompt your own imagination and this gallery can give you ideas.

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Dan Cable is the author of the life affirming and brilliant Alive at Work - one of the most inspiring visions of what work could look like. The discussion covers big themes of purpose and motivation but brings simple practical tips. What are the simple things that any of us could do to our induction processes at work? How could we encourage our teams to bring their selves to work.

I mention two articles. One by Sarah O'Connor in the FT and this one by Josh Hall about compulsory wellness.

You can get in touch with Bruce here on Twitter. All of the previous episodes are available on the website EatSleepWorkRepeat.fm

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An episode today that is a reflection on where work is going and what implications there are for cities, for workers and for life. 

Dror Poleg is a writer and commentator who thinks about how the internet is disrupting our lives. What sets him apart is his ability to see second and third order effects of change.

Dror Poleg's newsletter (and draft book of the future of work) can be found at his website.

Join me at Microsoft's event on AI and the future of work

Join me on 25th May at 12.30pm (13:30 CET) when I’ll be speaking at Microsoft’s Employee Experience event.

The event is focussed on developments in emerging workplace technologies, such as AI, and how we can optimise employee experience to help balance productivity, engagement, and wellbeing of employees.

I’ll be delivering a keynote speech and taking part in a fireside chat with Microsoft’s Alexia Cambon and Nick Hedderman about how we can implement AI in the workplace to build the future of work.

To register for your free seat, click the link here.

If you're interested in becoming a co-host on Eat Sleep Work Repeat get in touch: eatsleepworkrepeat.com/host

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Are you touch starved? Do you feel a touch hunger in your life?

Michael Banissy is a psychologist whose work focusses on the importance of physical connection between people, he styles himself as part of a group of ‘scientists who stroke’. Touch has become sigmatised by the actions of those who have misused it, to the extent that many of us have become fearful of touching the arm or shoulder of others.

Michael Banissy gives a compelling case for appropriate touch, and asks us to rethink the role it plays in our lives.

His book Why We Touch is out now. (It’s called Touch Matters in the US).

Read more: How touch changes our decision making

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Zeynep Ton is the author of the Good Jobs Strategy - which holds the honour of being the book I refer to the most when it comes to talking about work. In that book she set about making the case for firms to create good jobs for their employees, not just for the moral reason but because it was a route to faster growth. 

Now she returns with a new book, The Case for Good Jobs, which not only explains the reasoning for creating better working conditions for workers, but also how any firm can set about doing it. At the heart of the discussion is a recognition that workers want to do a good job - and often find obstacles in their way.

MIT Sloan Review: When Doing Less Adds Up to More

The Obstacles to Creating Good Jobs

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We’re in a stage place with AI right now where for most of us it’s still a parlour trick. Something that we’ve seen create images of the Pope in bling or summon up meal planners that we’ll never use. But we’ve not really seen how it will impact our jobs.

Along the way there have been some huge claims:

• An MIT study said that knowledge work could become 37% faster and more effective simply by using Chat GPT
• A study by Github found that software developers were 55% faster using Github Copilot

Anecdotally I have heard the same from software developers.

And in aggregate there’s certainly a chance that we’re not thinking of the implications of these things.

The economist Paul Krugman this week said that if AI is able to deliver an additional 1.5% of growth per year to the economy then we should stop worrying about national debt and a percentage of GDP. 

Of course, he would say that his own extrapolations on these things are just an attempt to float ideas.

That’s why today’s podcast was so important for me to feature. I got the chance to chat to Alexia Cambon, Senior Director of Modern Work Research at Microsoft and Nick Hedderman, Senior Director of Modern Work, Microsoft. The discussion has implications for all of us, and how quickly we set about changing the way we work

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Alex's book: Work less, do more

Make Work Better newsletter covered the 4 day week trials

For today’s episode I went to meet Alex Soujung Kim Pang. Alex has written a lot about our relationship with work, first in his book Rest and now in his book WORK LESS, DO MORE which is a refreshed version of Shorter.

When we first spoke the evidence for shorter working was a series of quirky stories of pioneering firms, frequently led by maverick bosses. In the last three years the landscape for shorter working (encompassing all manner of adaptations like four day weeks, compressed hours, 9 day fortnights and more) has transformed. Alex himself has played a role for 4 Day Week Global helping to design the mechanics of programs for test firms.

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If you liked this I actually shared a lot of the data on the newsletter a couple of weeks ago - read that here.

Today's episode is an in depth exploration of the latest Gallup Global Workplace Report, Anna Sawyer, a Principal at Gallup takes us through the findings - and the implications for all leaders.

Get your hands on Gallup’s ‘State of the Global Workplace Report’

Here’s Anna on LinkedIn

I loved the Gallup report on employee burnout (and I cited the results in the show)

We talk a little about the Gallup Q12 criteria that help them form their results, people are asked:

• I know what is expected of me at work.
• I have the materials and equipment I need to do my work right.
• At work, I have the opportunity to do what I do best every day.
• In the last seven days, I have received recognition or praise for doing good work.
• My supervisor, or someone at work, seems to care about me as a person.
• There is someone at work who encourages my development.
• At work, my opinions seem to count.
• The mission or purpose of my company makes me feel my job is important.
• My associates or fellow employees are committed to doing quality work.
• I have a best friend at work.
• In the last six months, someone at work has talked to me about my progress.
• This last year, I have had opportunities at work to learn and grow.

Friendship is ‘the privilege of having been seen by someone and the equal privilege of having been granted the sight of the essence of another’ - David Whyte 

Read the meta-analysis (I *think* only 2020 is released at the moment)

Findings: Median percent differences between top-quartile and bottom-quartile units were:

• 10% in customer loyalty/engagement

• 23% in profitability

• 18% in productivity (sales)

• 14% in productivity (production records and evaluations)

• 18% in turnover for high-turnover organisations (those with more than 40% annualised turnover)

• 43% in turnover for low-turnover organisations (those with 40% or lower annualised turnover)

• 64% in safety incidents (accidents)

• 81% in absenteeism

• 28% in shrinkage (theft)

• 58% in patient safety incidents (mortality and falls)

• 41% in quality (defects)

• 66% in wellbeing (net thriving employees)

• 13% in organisational citizenship (participation)

View the Science Behind the Questions

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Sorry for duplicate - the previous version had no intro!

If you liked this I actually shared a lot of the data on the newsletter a couple of weeks ago - read that here.

Today's episode is an in depth exploration of the latest Gallup Global Workplace Report, Anna Sawyer, a Principal at Gallup takes us through the findings - and the implications for all leaders.

Get your hands on Gallup’s ‘State of the Global Workplace Report’

Here’s Anna on LinkedIn

I loved the Gallup report on employee burnout (and I cited the results in the show)

We talk a little about the Gallup Q12 criteria that help them form their results, people are asked:

• I know what is expected of me at work.
• I have the materials and equipment I need to do my work right.
• At work, I have the opportunity to do what I do best every day.
• In the last seven days, I have received recognition or praise for doing good work.
• My supervisor, or someone at work, seems to care about me as a person.
• There is someone at work who encourages my development.
• At work, my opinions seem to count.
• The mission or purpose of my company makes me feel my job is important.
• My associates or fellow employees are committed to doing quality work.
• I have a best friend at work.
• In the last six months, someone at work has talked to me about my progress.
• This last year, I have had opportunities at work to learn and grow.

Friendship is ‘the privilege of having been seen by someone and the equal privilege of having been granted the sight of the essence of another’ - David Whyte 

Read the meta-analysis (I *think* only 2020 is released at the moment)

Findings: Median percent differences between top-quartile and bottom-quartile units were:

• 10% in customer loyalty/engagement

• 23% in profitability

• 18% in productivity (sales)

• 14% in productivity (production records and evaluations)

• 18% in turnover for high-turnover organisations (those with more than 40% annualised turnover)

• 43% in turnover for low-turnover organisations (those with 40% or lower annualised turnover)

• 64% in safety incidents (accidents)

• 81% in absenteeism

• 28% in shrinkage (theft)

• 58% in patient safety incidents (mortality and falls)

• 41% in quality (defects)

• 66% in wellbeing (net thriving employees)

• 13% in organisational citizenship (participation)

View the Science Behind the Questions

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A few months ago I put out a call asking for other voices to get involved in the podcast and I’m delighted today to add Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook to Eat Sleep Work Repeat.

You may have read Ellen’s brilliant writing in The Stylist where she is the Deputy Digital Editor and previously in Metro. She writes and edits pieces on work, mental health, relationships, and more. Here’s her own Substack on work. She is also working on fiction and is represented by The Soho Agency.

Matt/Matthew is the founder of theSHIFT, an award-winning learning consultancy that specialises in cultural change inside organisations. He’s basically a people enthusiast who has turned it into his job.

I’ll be honest I love talking about work but I was worried that my own perspective might be a bit limiting. First and foremost I ended up as a boss and whether you intend it to or not that skews your perspective. Ellen and Matthew are here to help give a broader view. We loved recording the first episode and hopefully great things are to come.

You’ll find more on work at the ESWR website and the Make Work Better newsletter.

Today’s links:

Ellen’s post about AI

The rise of Millennial Momagers

McKinsey claims to have cracked the formula for hybrid working

‘Sorry but productivity is lower at home’ - the article and the discussion of it is covered here

Hybrid workers are spending fully half of their work time in meetings

Maker vs Manager Schedule

The benefit of ‘collective effervescence’ (there’s loads about this in Fortitude, p168)

Erin Meyer on the cultural differences of giving feedback

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I’m joined again by new cohosts Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook.

Buy Belonging

Owen Eastwood is the most in-demand team performance coach in the world

He's earned that reputation by delivering break-through results with a diverse range of teams from Gareth Southgate’s England team and the England women’s team, to the senior leadership team of NATO. His former clients represent an elite range of teams who have gone on to achieve incredible victories. We wanted to understand how he did it.

What does he say? What does he ask?

Eastwood’s approach is consistent. By zooming out and pointing our fleeting contribution to legacy he urges teams to think about their ‘Us’ story. For me this suggests that what he’s actually doing is emphasising a powerful shared identity. In my mind I would see this as activating a visceral bond of community, he chooses to label it as ‘belonging’. That distinction ends up feeling semantic when presented with what his approach achieves.

This week on the podcast I’m joined by new co-hosts Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook as we talk to Owen and debate purpose, identity and belonging.

It’s a truly brilliant listen.

Follow Owen on LinkedIn

Joe Lycett’s remarkable special - the last 20 minutes of this are astonishing viewing

Ellen on thinking about leaving work on time

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Sign up for the Make Work Better newsletter

Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook.

Ellen wrote about her learnings about being a manager

Despite government threats of legal action Cambridgeshire council are continuing their evidence-led trial of the 4-day week. “Nine in ten councils are struggling with job recruitment and retention and a four-day working week could be the answer”

Ellen mentions this article on Stylist about boundaries (registration required)

Half of the employees of Grindr were fired after the firm issued a RTO order. This included 100% of the firm’s trans employees. As Matt points out in the show trans employees are subject to the legislative whims of different states in the US and understandably try to locate in safe places.

We talk about the World Values Survey report "What the world thinks about work"

• People in the UK are least likely to say work is important in their life. It's still seems pretty high, 73% of the UK public say work is very or rather important in their life - but significantly lower than other countries. Other western nations such as Italy, Spain, Sweden, France and Norway all rank much higher than the UK on this measure, with more than nine in 10 saying work is important in their life.
• Headline warning: This is not a new development. the share of the British public who say work is important in their life has hardly changed in three decades 
• But there are big generational differences in views on whether work should always come first. One of the most interesting charts has been millennial's views crashing: it went from a hustle culture high of 41% in 2009 to 14% in 2022. That is a huge shift in attitude

Libby Sander is an internationally renowned expert on work and the workplace, the MBA Director and Assistant Professor of Organisational Behaviour at Bond University. She is a leading thinker on understanding the future of work, and how we can reimagine it to live more meaningful and creative lives.

Read Libby on RTO

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This episode explores the concept of fun and its importance in adult life, challenging the misperception that fun is frivolous.

What is fun? Catherine Price suggests that it is the confluence of playfulness, connection, and flow.

The discussion also addresses the impact of social media on fake fun and the role of playfulness in work and productivity. The conversation explores the importance of fun in the workplace and the impact it has on productivity, connection, and overall well-being. It delves into the challenges of creating a fun work environment, the role of playfulness in building connections, and the significance of in-person interactions. The discussion also highlights the value of fun in education and its potential to bridge social and cultural divides.

Takeaways

• Fun is a feeling, not an activity, and it involves the confluence of playfulness, connection, and flow.
• The misperception of fun as frivolous leads to the prioritization of fake fun over true fun, impacting mental and physical health.
• Playfulness is undervalued in work settings, but it is essential for creativity, productivity, and building closer relationships.
• Social media and technology addiction are designed to induce fake fun through dopamine triggers, leading to habituation and reduced enjoyment of everyday experiences.
• Creating space for spontaneity and identifying personal 'fun magnets' are essential for experiencing true fun in everyday life. Creating a fun work environment can improve productivity, connection, and employee well-being.
• In-person interactions play a crucial role in building meaningful connections and fostering a sense of community in the workplace.
• Fun and playfulness have the potential to bridge social and cultural divides, creating a more inclusive and connected society.

Chapters

00:00

The Essence of Fun: Playfulness, Connection, and Flow

08:27

The Impact of Fake Fun: Social Media and Technology Addiction

15:27

The Role of Playfulness in Work and Productivity

31:20

Focusing on Inputs and Creating a Fun Work Environment

34:22

The Role of Playfulness in Building Connections

39:02

Fun as a Tool for Bridging Social Divides

Catherine Price is a science and health writer who has written a couple of sensationally timely books.

Firstly How to Break Up With Your Phone

Secondly, and today’s discussion focusses on this, The Power of Fun

I was put on to it by Elle Hunt’s Power of Fun article in The Guardian

Memorise it: fun is playful connected flow

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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook. Ellen is away this week - we were working hard to squeeze an elite guest in.

Amy Edmondson is the most renowned organisational psychologist in the world. In other words she's looked to more than anyone else for the answers of how to fix work.

In this in depth discussion she talks us through what she understands by psychological safety, how any of us can create it and what she believes the best team structure is to achieve it.

We're also joined by Octavius Black, founder of Mind Gym, who provide behavioural science based interventions for lots of the biggest companies in the world.

Amy's new book is The Right Kind of Wrong

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What Ange Postecoglou changed at Spurs in his first 100 days: ‘The mood has been transformed’

Charlie writes about the oratory of Ange Postecoglou

Last week I read something wonderful about the culture of Tottenham Hotspur, I contacted the writer and it felt like it was worth putting out quickly. We’ve got a couple of podcast recorded with Matt and Ellen so we’ll be back for a fuller episode next week.

Ange Postecoglou has been the manager of Spurs, Tottenham Hotspur, for around a hundred days. In that time he’s started something of a transformation. And I can tell that because the Spurs fans I know how have started smiling. Spurs have started the season well, currently sitting 2nd in the Premier League. But more than that the players seem to be happy and are playing exciting football.

There was a brilliant article by Charlie Ecceshare from The Athletic looking into the culture of the club under Ange, the article talked about how the mood of the club has been transformed.

For anyone interested in the impact that cultural change can create it was a fascinating read, full of specifics and clear actions.

Aren’t all of us looking to change the mood of our jobs? I got in touch with Charlie and we talked about Postecoglou, culture and the impact that culture has on results. 

In the show note you’ll find links to Charlie’s articles, YouTube clips of some team talks we discuss and some other things that you might find of interest, like an interview with Gary Lineker. 

Fabulous interview with Gary Lineker

Big Ange motivational speech

Thank you to Charlie, all of the articles mentioned are in the show notes. What a fabulous discussion. I’m grateful for him taking the time to chat to me. If you’re interested in workplace culture you can sign up to the newsletter in the show notes - and also check out previous episodes on Liverpool FC, Barcelona and the All Blacks.

Further listening:

• Inside Klopp's early days at Liverpool
• A close look at Barcelona's culture
• The culture of the All Blacks
• Reinventing the culture of the England team with Gareth Southgate

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This week we go deep on the latest news about work.

We discuss:

• Two thirds of bosses expect a return to the office by 2036
• KPMG CEO survey
• David Foster Wallace - This is Water commencement speech
• Shonda Rhimes “Whenever you see me somewhere succeeding in one area of my life, that almost certainly means I am failing in another area of my life”
• 80% of remote workers claim to have two jobs
• Email sign-offs are changing
• Coffee badging as a protest against being in the office
• Snail girl jobs (and the toxicity of ‘trends’ about women working less)
• The gendered nature of WFH assessment (participants in research were less likely to choose to hire working mothers than childless women)

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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook. Sign up to the newsletter

This week we go deep on the latest news about work.

• ITV tell staff to declare ‘friendships’
• Moderation staff at Facebook are suing over PTSD
• BBC staff given help for stress levels
• 'We Had To Remove This Post' - brilliant novella by Hanna Bervoets
• Oobah Butler’s Amazon show on Channel 4
• Reddit anti work
• Reddit r/LateStageCapitalism
• Matt’s final comment about having orgasms to boost productivity
• Big Train sketch: 'no wanking in the office please'

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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook. Sign up to the newsletter

Is toxic culture driving your team away?

If you’re someone whose job it is think about culture, or maybe you’re a boss who has tried to communicate values to your team then today’s episode is an essential listen.

Donald Sull and Charlie Sull are a father and son research team who have discovered extraordinary insights into values and what they look like in the real world.

Here are some articles to get you going to understand the world of the Sulls:

Toxic Culture Is Driving the Great Resignation

The Toxic Culture Gap Shows Companies Are Failing Women

Why leaders need to worry about toxic culture?

Charlie and Donald have a business that focusses on this called Culture X.

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Professor Frances Frei is the biggest brain in the field of workplace culture and I was delighted to get another opportunity to talk to her.

She explains the one thing that firms should do to fix their cultures (spoiler: train their managers), why she thinks inclusion is a more important element of culture than just diversity.

The previous episode with Frances Frei

Frances and Anne’s podcast Fixable

Frances’ and Anne Morriss’ new book Move Fast and Fix Things

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Quotes from the book that I cited: 

“One way to build cynicism quickly in an organisation, something we see all the time, by the way - is to ask people for their input and then do very little with the information they give you (and take a long time to even do that)’

Robert McDonald, former CEO of P&G “Organisations are perfectly designed to get the results they get… if you don’t like the results you need to change the design”. 

We're often asked for a summary of how to build a workplace where everyone feels welcome. Our short answer is to recruit great people you don't already know, give them interesting work to do, and invest in them as if your company's future depends on it. If they deserve a promotion, give it to them in a timely man-ner. Don't make them wait. Don't make them go to a competitor to get the role, title, and decision rights they already earned on your watch. And in the name of all that is right and just in the world, pay them fairly and equitably for the work they do.”

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