Dive-In-Justice (Shadiin Garcia & Delma Jackson)

With the encouragement of both Shadiin and Dr. Finney, Delma briefly considers taking up late night DJ-ing. Shadiin and Delma check in about the passing of Delma's colleague and classmate, Dr. Charles Banks and the disproportionate health outcomes of BIPOC populations. Shadiin discusses her son's and their future plans. She also raises what it means to receive feedback from listeners about her "single" status and what it means practice relationships beyond monogamy and her recent dating fun in her dating life.

After the break our hosts welcome the "notorious" Dr. Carolyn Finney who discusses her journey through higher education and what it means to navigate the struggle of meeting her own expectations around social justice work and "the invisible list of rules" that come with being on "the left." She discusses how making money can conflict with her desire to be true to herself when "the rules" don't serve her. She powerfully discusses the task of knowing and meeting her own expectations in the face of people and institutions who expect something less than authenticity.

As we finally close the season, Shadiin both apologizes AND blames Delma for being at fault for this episode taking soooo long to record/post...

Delma checks in about Christmas covid, working in a predominantly white institution (PWIs) and what it's like to navigate these spaces. He gives a shout to Corporate Erin and #NonProfitBoss for giving voice to the strangeness of the culture.

Shadiin and Delma reflect on how we choose to engage with the heaviness of the conflict in Gaza and how we decide when to do so v not. We leverage that conversation to look at what it means to have the privilege to "look away."

Shadiin discusses reuniting with family for land rematriation and all the beauty the process brought up even as they collectively mourned the passing of an uncle.

The duo then reflect on season 3's themes around the tension between our values and our money and the various lessons learned by our powerful and committed guests.

Thanks SO MUCH for taking this journey with us. Look for us to return with SEASON 4: LOVE, in late April!

Delma and Shadiin dive into the story behind Leah Penniman’s work with SoulFire Farm that goes far beyond food production. They talk spiritual practice, solidarity, land rights, ancestral work, and intergenerational pettiness. Threads of family and place flow throughout. Leah Penniman is a Black Creole farmer, author, mother, and food justice activist maintaining the soil and organizing for an anti-racist food system for over 20 years. She currently serves as founding co-executive director of SoulFire Farm in Grafton, New York. Her book is Farming While Black. Find her at https://www.soulfirefarm.org/

Shadiin sets up Delma once again to mispronounce Indigenous nations. They check in on the Trump's team showing up in Fulton County and the idea that Fani Willis deserves her flowers sooner than later. Shadiin discusses the crazy-making that is holding people in loving accountability and the toll it takes on BIPOC.

After the break, our fearless hosts welcome Taj James: Founder and former Director of the Movement Strategy Center, Curator at Full Spectrum Labs and Principal at Full Spectrum Capital Partners. Taj invites us to consider a different form of capitalism wherein people are creating markets that more aligned with the earth, our values, and the future we want to see for our beloveds.

This week, we discover why Delma never became a serious runner and why Shadiin is cowboy adjacent and an enemy of our bovine brothers and sisters. Meanwhile, your hosts try to figure out why it feels like white people are often more emotive regarding tragedies befalling our four-legged family than they are when it happens to their fellow BIPOC siblings.

After Delma's blood pressure comes back down, our hosts discuss the ways we choose to compromise ourselves even as we're trying to change the world for the better. How does our desire for comfort and security impact our willingness to speak truth to power? How do we decide when to risk our finances to fight the good fight?

Shadiin encourages Delma to BRING IT with the introduction. Our hosts discuss a lived experience of a micro-aggression and all the ways the mind and body responded in the moment...striving hard to say the quiet parts out loud.

After the break, our hosts discuss the journey from our younger, more rigid, newly-informed "woke" selves to our more comfortable, older, more flexible selves of today. Did we sell out? Did we get too comfortable? Were we TOO woke for our own good when we were younger? We don't know, but we're gonna talk about it. Come join us!

Dive-In-Justice is launching season 3 on May 19th! Join Shandiin and Delma's bi-weekly pod as they examine the role of money, resources, and access in relationship to Justice. How do we seek one without forsaking the other? We don't know either, but we're gonna spend season 3 talking thru it together.

Come join for the conversation. It'll be interesting, honest, funny, and heartbreaking all at once and we are HERE for it!

This week on DIJ, Shadiin laughs at Delma's natural-born face. They discuss how meaningful it is to have close connections with their respective children. Our hosts discuss the promises and pitfalls of American life and how it impacts their views on patriotism vs packing it up, while in Black and Brown bodies-as well as what we saw in our fathers and grandfathers who served.

DIJ then welcomes, Aayaan. Aayaan, is a transformational coach and founder of Unearth Freedom, LLC and a consultant at Metropolitan Group. As a healing justice facilitator and cultural change guide, Aayaan helps systematically disadvantaged and purpose driven leaders experience freedom, feel powerful, and act with purpose.

They discuss how often we show up with an overwhelming need to "prove" ourselves, and how we can begin to "remove all the layers" that prevent us from healing. They discuss how Aayaan awakened to their work and how their work with Unearth Freedom seeks to help others recover from feelings of shame and loss that prevent us from engaging in the type of emotional consciousness that our world needs so desperately today.

We have something special to share with you this week. This is the audio version of an essay, written by one of our collective members at the Center for Whole Communities, Samara Gaev. We simply invite you to close your eyes and take this in when you have the time, and listen as Samara gives voice to the tender reality of what it’s like to bring young ones into this world in a time of conflict, trauma, and chaos. You can also find the written version here. And if you would like to contribute to CWC's winter fundraising campaign, and support our collective transition, you can donate here.

The accompanying music for this piece is Compassion, by Cellomano.

This week, we discover just how well-versed Delma is in the nuances of Indigenous nations. Shadiin ponders the toll of white supremacy on BIPOC health over the long haul. They both discuss the importance of rest in the face of ongoing social turmoil, oppression, and upheaval.

The DIJ hosts welcome Lori Tapahonso (Diné/Acoma Pueblo). Lori is a public relations specialist, a teacher, a consultant, a storyteller, a jeweler, and an actor. Lori discusses her role as the Native American Program Coordinator at Lane Community College where she manages the development and implementation of programming specifically geared towards Native students at Lane.

Lori describes her strong tribal college background having worked at Haskell, SIPI (Southwestern Indian Polytechnic Institute) and six campuses of Diné College. The three also discuss the role of media representation and what it means to see yourself represented on screen for better and for worse.

Thank you for your patience faithful listener!

This week, Shadiin opens up by saying the quiet part out loud and admits she loves to hear Delma stumble over pronunciations.

Delma checks in about what it means to respond to the world around us based on perceived racial identity and gender and how we potentially replicate the very systems we seek to change. Shadiin reflects on the pride she feels in watching her children become "good humans" in this world. She also discusses the way recent events and triggered her anger and how she's managing (or not) to move with it.

After the break, our fearless hosts welcome back poet, activist, educator, and facilitator Kellie Richardson who's work center's Black humanity as sacred, divine, and worthy. Kellie joins us to talk about surviving cancer, making a living, living life, and what it means to tell her story in predominantly white institutions and spaces in everything from health care, to art.

Delma and Shadiin provide a retrospective look at all we learned together over the past months from our amazing guests. The season finale provides highlights, reflections, and important points from past episodes - what really stuck out to us from our guests, and what might have changed us or what we might be taking with us well into the future based on the wisdom of what they had to offer. We want to thank everyone who has joined us for Season One, and especially thank those who've donated to the show through Patreon!

MARK YOUR CALENDARS!!! Season 2 opens NOV 5th.

Delma is tempted to bully a 10-year-old and Shadiin is saddened by the state of our curricula that would allow 10-year-olds to be more critical in response to global events. They also discuss how language reveals parts of ourselves we're not always proud of.

Delma and Shadiin also dive in with racial justice leaders in the Pacific northwest and twinsies - Rena Dunbar and Leah Dunbar.

Dr. Leah Dunbar is committed to educational justice and Dr. Rena Dunbar is a long time Ethnic Studies teacher. Together they co-created a curriculum called “Courageous Conversations” and have a lot of amazing things to say about working as educators with young people calling the shots.

Shadiin and Delma open this week's episode with warmth, love, and light. Or...not.

They move into a conversation about the ways their own inside jokes have potentially caused harm to some of our listeners-which leads to a broader analysis of how we might come to conclusions about what's acceptable and what's not-and to what extent we're even equipped to have those conversations with one another. We discuss the isolation and shaming that can come from our triggers running encountering our inability to skillfully hold these conversations.

DIJ welcomes Scott Nine-Assistant Superintendent for the Oregon Department of Education’s Office of Education Innovation and Improvement. Scott discusses his journey through his childhood in a faith community, grappling with the politics of whiteness within his own family, and wrestling with working to constantly expand his world view.

Scott draws on these narratives as he moves into his current role and his vulnerability when working on justice issues as a white, cisgender male, and how his commitment to equity rests in a willingness to keep doing "the work" even as you know you're going to get things wrong along the way.

After confessing profound pettiness, Scott joins Shadiin and Delma in analyzing the role of ism's articulated by celebrities and how our feelings about their words inform us.

On this episode, Shadiin and Delma talk: adulting from paying off car notes to watching cat videos, and trade highs and lows. The episode features guest, Enroue Halfkenny, who identifies as a 52-year old, Boston-born, multi-racial, cisgender Black male raised by organizers and activists who taught him the importance of community liberation movements to address systemic oppression. Enroue shares a Yoruba ancestor song, honoring the totality of our sacred ancestral lineage thanking them for our blessings and speaks about his practice of “healing and liberation counseling.” Enroue dives directly into callout culture, trauma, triggers, and what’s real and true, all in the service of healing what needs to be healed so we can be as free as possible.

This week, we join our fearless/fearful hosts as Shadiin tells salacious lies regarding the origin of Delma's humor. They check in about the intersection of anger, mourning, and disproportionate health outcomes as Delma continues to mourn the loss of his father. Shadiin processes recovering from covid in the midst of a retreat she was central in putting together after 2 years of continuous work.

After checking in, our hosts look at the ways we embody white supremacy culture in our hyper-focus on tending to "our own" issues and ignoring the plight/struggles of others. What does it mean to move in an intersectional way? How do we acknowledge that we'll never know everything about everyone and yet continue to learn and grown as we navigate one another in the midst of the overwhelming forces of white supremacist patriarchy? We don't know, either...

Delma Jackson and Shadiin Garcia explore the past, present, and future of living out justice. They discuss the concept of erasure and ask questions like “What does it mean to be one’s best self with love and compassion in such a divided country, especially when confronted by oppression?” and “What does it mean for our dreaming to be transcendent, authentic, and real?” and “Why did we make yet another podcast for you to listen to?” Quite simply, it’s because when it comes to justice, we haven't gotten there yet.

Find us on:

• Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/dive_in_justice
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/DiveInJustice
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/diveinjustice/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Dive-In-Justice-354392422268384
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTHEIQY9AeKhNCbEYs2g7aA

Season 2 is in the books! Thanks SO much for being a listener!

Our hosts open up with a whole season's worth of bitter love and warm hostility. They discuss balancing workloads, family, and what it means to live in head vs the heart. Shadiin discusses comfort zones and how we might benefit from finding the right balance between feeling stretched, growing, and over-extending.

Shadiin and Delma zoom out and discuss some of the biggest themes running throughout season 2 and the show in general with a special focus on land acknowledgements and how we might keep them relevant, and focused on raising awareness as opposed to another vehicle for performance. Our hosts also discuss how we hold the passion, anger, promise, and tension that comes from trying to have nuanced conversations on justice in a binary world.

Finally, our hosts discuss their vision for season 3 and take a moment to recognize all those who've supported us to this point.

Delma and Shadiin dive into the heatwaves people are experiencing caused by climate change, returning to being social, and the happiness of a true 40-hour work week, which is all too uncommon in the public service and nonprofit realms. Kellie Richardson joins as a guest this week, a writer and artist educator born and raised in Tacoma Washington. Her work explores the intersection of race, class and gender with a specific emphasis on themes of love, loss and longing. As the 2017 to 2019 Tacoma Poet Laureate, Kellie has worked to ensure literary arts are both accessible to and representative of the diversity of that community. Kellie has authored two collections of poetry, “What Us Is” and “The Art of Naming My Pain,” published by Blue Cactus Press. Find her at brownbetty.org and her works at bluecactuspress.com.

After Delma makes the words bigger (and highlights them) to help Shadiin read the screen, they trade their usual sweetness. Shadiin and Delma then open up about what it means to be a Global Majority/BIPOC human facilitating difficult conversations in predominantly white spaces. How do we remain authentic and What to do with the anger, frustration, etc...that can come up.

DIJ hosts dive deep with guest, Keith Catone, who has a deep background in education and organizing. Keith is Executive Director of Center for Youth & Community Leadership in Education (CYCLE) and speak about these places we call schools - what do they do? How do we listen to the young people who refuse to play along, the ones we call troublemakers? How can we tap into our ancestral wisdom so that schools can be places where everybody can show up and thrive, not just survive. 

Shadiin and Delma briefly consider renaming the podcast. Our hosts take time to check in with one another on the nuances and difficulties of getting facilitating groups while trying to make it look easy and what it means to "teach" facilitation to a new generation of people while being feeling exhausted.

After the break, our hosts discuss the existence, proliferation, external appearance, and internal voice of the Contemporary Tom: those of us who put the comfort of people in power over the needs of those most vulnerable. Modern day uncle toms within and without are making justice difficult to embody for us all. What is a sellout? WHO is a sellout? Who should get to decide? What does it even mean...? We don't know either, but we're gonna discuss just the same.

Delma and Shadiin take care through the latest wave of COVID as they dive deep into a debate on cultural appropriation, especially around who is capable of appropriating based on where whiteness is present and how systems of power really work. Environmental justice leader, Vernice Miller-Travis, founder of WE ACT for Environmental Justice and Executive Vice President alongside Shadiin at Metropolitan Group.

Vernice is one of the nation’s most respected thought leaders on environmental justice and the interplay of civil rights and environmental policy to build a social movement that is rooted at the intersection of race, environment, economics, social justice and public health. She was a contributing author to the landmark report “Toxic Waste and Race in the United States” and was awarded the Robert Bullard Environmental Justice Award by the Sierra Club.

Allergy season comes for Shadiin, Delma’s struggles with motivating his kids through the end of the school year, and they both still manage to have a good week as they dive in with guest, internationally recognized Janene Yazzie, a Diné community activist who is co-founder and CEO of Sixth World Solutions, which works with Diné communities to develop projects, programs and policies that promote sustainability, environmental justice, and self governance. She's also serving as a co-convener of the indigenous peoples major group of the United Nations. Janene shares the experience of being Indigenous and navigating indoctrination in the U.S. education system, plus her thoughts on Black and Indigenous solidarity.

Delma and Shadiin dive into the complexity of owning a firearm while in Black and Brown bodies, and what happens when you’re allergic to vaccinations. Like owning a gun, they question why loving the earth is so often framed as a white experience and why sometimes everything we seem to do feels like a reaction to white folks as opposed to creating a vision for ourselves in Black and Brown bodies. Guest, Sarika Tandon, shares the story of why she does what she does as an equity strategist and racial justice advocate, and why she does it as part of a big team. We also learn that Delma typically likes to pin his own video on Zoom calls so he can focus on how pretty he looks.

Delma and Shadiin dive into storytelling for justice, “moving courageously towards a sacred purpose,” and being called to care for our collective descendents with Tannia Esparza.

Tannia is a queer Chicanx raised in Chumash people's ocean waters now known as Santa Barbara, California, from a migrant family of brave persistent matriarchs who is now home in the high desert mountains of the Tiwa people in Corvallis, New Mexico. They are a storyteller and founder of Girasol Descendants, a beloved community making project offering storytelling as a practice for building the world we need and deeply desire.

Tanya offers her gifts in coaching vision and purpose alignment, transformative facilitation, program design, storytelling, and cultural strategy to local and national social justice efforts at the intersections of reproductive gender and racial justice and queer liberation. She is the former executive director of Bold Futures NM and recipient of the Women of Vision award from the MS foundation for women. 

On this second episode of the podcast, Shadiin and Delma dive with Khalif on identity - fixed identity as a white construct and the balance between love and accountability. With hearts laid bare, this episode goes deeper into current politics, work highs and lows, family, and complexities around solidarity. 

You can find it, support, and directly follow on ALL the platforms:

• Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/diveinjustice
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/DiveInJustice
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/diveinjustice/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Dive-In-Justice-354392422268384
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTHEIQY9AeKhNCbEYs2g7aA
• Captivate: https://dive-in-justice.captivate.fm/

Our hosts open up how much Shadiin REALLY appreciates Delma's presence in her life. From there, they discuss the nature of contemporary politics and the role of Trump in changing the political landscape so much that you start to miss Reagan and Bush. Shadiin talks about the way our various "hats" we wear impact how we choose to show up in various places. Are we being our authentic selves? CAN we be our authentic selves and still hold down a job?

DIJ then welcomes our guest, Ginny McGinn, the long-time director of Center for Whole Communities. Ginny discusses what it means to lead an agency through justice work while holding her own integrity while navigating sexism and white identity. She discuss the role of allyship in the face of these intersectional realities. She discusses the risks inherent in justice work and how she determines when to push while trying to meet people where they are.

After a lengthy hiatus, Shadiin and Delma are back with another season of DIJ and the mutual respect is as present as ever...Once Shadiin learns to loosen up a bit...we discuss the theme of justice and money that will inform the rest of season 3. We talk about what it means to care about both justice AND paying our bills; our need for love and our need for liquidity. We talk about how often we feel called to move the world in the right direction, while shrinking our voice in order to remain "digestable" and employed. Sometimes we're silent when we should be loud. Sometimes people are counting on us while we're counting our money.

Why? Because we're human, fallible, greedy, and we want to be comfortable. We live in a broader context that says, be a capitalist, or live off the grid. Your hosts have chosen. So the question remains: how do we live with ourselves?

Shadiin and Delma open up by discussing whiteness. From Jan 6, to friendships, to dating, to work life and beyond. They discuss how aging impacts our ability to show up and hold difficult spaces-even when they're filled by people who look just like us. Our fearless hosts reflect on the enraging nature of trying to figure out the nuances of community while trying to live in white supremacy.

DIJ welcomes to the show Jomo Kheru (Brian Carey Sims): founder and executive director at Jomoworks, which combines the knowledge and expertise of a research institute with the skills of an education management consulting firm to serve as a trusted partner to school districts and universities worldwide.

Jomo Kheru (Brian Carey Sims) is a media psychologist and social entrepreneur invested in African liberation with over 15 years of faculty and administrative experience in university teaching and learning, faculty governance, and social and instructional media. He is founder and executive director at Jomoworks, an education management consulting firm specializing in University / K-12 partnership development.  He is also a tenured Associate Professor in the Department of Psychology at Florida A&M University where his research focuses on the implications of media for individuals, families, and communities of African descent.

We discuss everything from Hip Hop to African Liberation, Metaphysics, and the broadness of the human experience binding us all together.

Shadiin and Delma are joined by dear friends, deep thinkers, committed activists, sincerely fierce humans, and Senior Fellows from the Center for Whole Communities: Kavitha Rao and Mohamad Chakaki.

They open with the work of the Center for Whole Communities, how it centers/resurfaces indigenous practices like story-telling to better hold tension, empathy, and cent relationship--as well as the tragedy of living in a world where these ideas are labeled "radical."

From there they talk parents, politics, passion, and compassion. Kavitha discusses the role of movement practices in her life and how ofter our connection to wellness in our future connects to the practices of our past. Learn more about Kavi's offerings here: https://wholecommunities.org/embodied-practice/

Original music provided in this episode from: Dana and Alden. Check out their debut album: Brothers on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/album/3bAdq3gWGFX20djiV0q33R?si=xIMu0zvgSumy-YQVI_mZ2A

Our Apologies...we had some tech difficulties with this ep. Here's to never giving up...

Our hosts check in about the start of the school year so Delma can complain about having to start getting up earlier and getting organized again. They take a moment to reminisce about his Aunt Emma as she transitions into "the pantheon of ancestors." Shadiin reflects on what it means to be tough, the trauma we navigate to get there, and what our kids gain and lose in the process of protecting them from it.

Our fearless hosts then welcome our first guest of the season: Jonah Canner! A long time friend, colleague, teacher, and practitioner, Jonah joins us to discuss what it means to do this work while loving ourselves, the work, and each other. He discusses how he makes decisions about when to hold his position and when to fold and walk away (if not be escorted out).

Shadiin and Delma open up discussing the cultural relevance of the "Rock at the Dock," The "Fadesgivin' Festivities, " otherwise known as the August 5th "Montgomery Mollywhop," wherein a group of white Alabamans fucked around and found out.

They discuss how the role of blood quantum and other western notions of belonging continue to haunt the Pueblo nation Shadiin belongs to and what it means to dive into the work of calling in folks who look just like you but hold VERY different politics.

Finally, as our hosts hit the halfway point of the season, they pause to take note of what the season has been and what we hope it'll be moving forward.

Delma and Shadiin dive into what it feels like to be put in the position of policing people claiming to be Native American and talk with lifelong educator and activist, Jeff Bean. Jeff also happens to be the first White person interviewed on the show and is a retired teacher who spent 9 years at Detroit Catholic Central and 25 years at Flint Community Schools. They go deep into White nationalism and supremacy, and the national racial reckoning currently playing out.

The Center for Whole Communities and Shoreline Consulting is proud to present Season 2 of Dive in Justice: The podcast that explores “building ideal communities with our less than ideal selves.”

Shadiin and Delma open season 2 with all the warmth and cynicism you've come to love and expect.

Our hosts name the fact that their work often asks others to do the very things they struggle so hard to do for themselves and wonder aloud what it all means.

They cast forward to season 2 and name their hope for welcoming a new slate of guests for further unpacking the things we can do to be better to ourselves, each other, and work more cohesively to build ideal communities with our less-than-ideal selves.

Delma's sexism is apparently on full display when we join our hosts. Delma and Shadiin then discuss the various ways in which we can sometimes harbor ill-will toward people in our lives and what constitutes a reasonable expectation for dealing with it.

Our hosts then welcome Stevi Atkins and Teresa Springer of Wellness Services INC-an AIDS service organization based out of Flint, MI. They discuss the history of HIV work, the future of the work, the culture they've worked to cultivate for clients and staff, and how their personal histories have informed their life's work.

Dive-In-Justice is brought to you by Shoreline Consulting and The Center for Whole Communities. CWC is in our fundraising season! If you dig the pod, please consider donating to this amazing organization!

Delma: This is Delma Jackson.

Shadiin: And I’m Shadiin Garcia and welcome to our new podcast Dive-In-Justice.

Delma/Shadiin:

This podcast is for you… 

If you love the idea of building intentional community,

If you love history and pop-culture,

If you want to dream into a society where intersectionality is baked in,

Then dive in with us.

Shadiin: Know this. People of every background are welcome.

 We move through the world as Black and Brown people, and that’s the perspective we’re invoking.

This is especially for Black and Brown people who understand and have lived oppression, but aren’t defined by that lived oppression.

If you’re White, you’re welcome to listen - but not extract, as we’re not centering whiteness in this podcast. 

Delma: With so many podcasts available, let's be clear about why folks give Dive-In-Justice a listen?

Shadiin:   We need this show because we’re not there yet. Because we need to dive at injustice from all angles until the work is done. We humans are hard-wired to live in communities, and many of us find ourselves in communities that are not of our own choosing or design. 

Delma: Folks on the left can be hard on each other.

We all have our collective and individual traumas, histories as individuals, communities, ethnicities.

We often bring that trauma to bear in spaces of community.

It can tear us up from the inside out.

Shadiin: So then Who we are? And who we are to one another? ANd who are we to launch this pod?

Both:

We are long time facilitators, long time researchers, activists

Scholars, smokers, swearers, drinkers, parents

From communities for whom mainstream is ashamed to claim

Shadiin: In each podcast, you can expect hard truths and irreverence

We’ll be accountable to each other and our guests.

We’ll laugh, cry, cuss, fuss, explore, and dream.

Delma: We’ll talk about how the past informs the present, and time is circular. 

We’ll use current events to highlight historical trajectories. We’ll remind ourselves and each other that while life will surprise us, we’ve probably been here before and it’s how we respond to the moment that will define us for generations to come. 

Shadiin:

We’re inviting you to dive-in with us as we make sense of justice with one foot in reality and another foot in imagination.

You can support us at: 

• Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/dive_in_justice

Delma:

Follow on ALL the platforms:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/DiveInJustice
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/diveinjustice/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Dive-In-Justice-354392422268384
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTHEIQY9AeKhNCbEYs2g7aA
• Captivate: https://dive-in-justice.captivate.fm/

Delma & Shadiin open the episode reflecting on Delma's obvious high quality as reflected by the quality of his guests.

Shadiin complains about having to confess her pettiness first as they dive into notions of retribution and rest. Delma confesses to being often on a high moral horse when working with white people and they discuss the benefits and setbacks of leveraging white guilt.

DIJ welcomes Lt. Col. Adrian Massey to the show. Adrian is a lifelong friend of Delma's and has spent almost two decades serving in the US Army. Adrian takes us on a journey through his challenges and triumphs. He reflects on freedom, friendship, and faith and the power of poetry to "break up" otherwise barren soil.

Shadiin and Delma discuss the horrors of Ukraine, what it brings up for them-including how this moment mirrors so many others. From the systemic assault of women to the systemic racial bias in it's coverage, our hosts grapple with what it means to be a human consuming information that deeply impacts our sense of safety, well-being, and our sense of responsibility to this global community we call home.

Our hosts then welcome Chief Curator of The Emergence Network, Dr. Bayo Akomolafe. A speaker, author, fugitive neo-materialist, com-post-activist, public intellectual and Yoruba poet-Dr. Akomolafe offers a series of fundamental questions about the nature of justice, race, privilege, failure, and experimentation--For instance: Do we strengthen the role of oppression by seeking recognition from the very systems we seek to create? Is justice enough? What do we lose when we live in our privilege?

On episode 4, Shadiin and Delma get petty while talking about compassion in a perfect world. The episode features guest, Janet Soto Rodriguez, who apparently borrowed Shadiin’s car within about five minutes of knowing each other. Delma brings disappointingly less sass than usual, but delivers on words of limitless wisdom while Shadiin asks deep questions about passions, backstories, and widening our worlds.

Our hosts check in about the start of the school year so Delma can complain about having to start getting up earlier and getting organized again. They take a moment to reminisce about his Aunt Emma as she transitions into "the pantheon of ancestors." Shadiin reflects on what it means to be tough, the trauma we navigate to get there, and what our kids gain and lose in the process of protecting them from it.

Our fearless hosts then welcome our first guest of the season: Jonah Canner! A long time friend, colleague, teacher, and practitioner, Jonah joins us to discuss what it means to do this work while loving ourselves, the work, and each other. He discusses how he makes decisions about when to hold his position and when to fold and walk away (if not be escorted out).