Communicating Climate Change (Communicating Climate Change)

Communicating Climate Change is a podcast dedicated to helping you do just that. By digging deep into the best practices, the worst offenses, the pitfalls, and the paragons, we'll be looking for ways to help you – and me – improve our abilities to engage, empower, and ultimately, activate audiences on climate-related issues.

We’ll hear from experts producing the latest science, activists working at the front lines of the crisis, artists, NGOs, players from the private sector, and many more, bringing together a wide range of perspectives to help us be more impactful in the ways that we communicate climate change.

Each and every episode is an attempt to add to our toolkits. To help us develop the muscles we’ll need for this grand task. So, if you want to start communicating climate change more effectively, then tune in, subscribe, and tell your friends and colleagues about Communicating Climate Change.

This episode of Communicating Climate Change features a conversation with decorated scientist, consultant, and all-round gem of a human, Susanne Moser. Recorded in August 2022. It serves as a starting point for the series, taking a zoomed-out look at where we are right now and where we need to go when it comes to this pressing topic.

Susi’s resume is long and distinguished, but some highlights include her roles as Social Science Research Fellow at Stanford University’s Woods Institute for the Environment; as staff scientist for climate change at the Union of Concerned Scientists, and her contributions to several IPCC reports. Her work focuses on equitable adaptation and transformation in the face of climate change; on climate change communication in support of social change; and decision support and the interactions between scientists, policy-makers, and the public.

She’s also been responsible for a number of influential books, including as co-editor of the ground-breaking anthology on climate change communication, “Creating a Climate for Change”, alongside Lisa Dilling.

In fact, this book is exactly what led me to reach out to Susi in the first place and, as you’ll hear, had a real impact on me. It also provided a perfect jumping-off point for our conversation, which weaves through what’s still missing in a lot of communication around climate change, what communicators could do differently, and how technology has changed the game.

Additional links:

Susanna Moser’s website

Creating a Climate for Change: Communicating Climate Change and Facilitating Social Change

Reflections on climate change communication research and practice in the second decade of the 21st century: What more is there to say?

This episode features a conversation with Pan-African and decolonisation Activist, Mbong Akiy Fokwa Tsafack. Recorded in late October 2022.

Mbong, who was born in Cameroon, now lives in South Africa, where she works as Head of Communications at Greenpeace Africa. As you’ll hear, Mbong started her career as a television news anchor, and with more than fifteen years of experience working in the industry, is now a media expert, a seasoned communication strategist, and a passionate writer, with an obsession for narratives and story.

Simply put, amplifying the voices of communities at the frontline of any struggle – whether it be environmental, social, legal - is what she’s all about.

Amongst other things, we talked about the power of framing, the role of communication in activism, and what it takes to engage audiences on the African continent.

Additional links:

Greenpeace Africa

‘From Crafting Headlines to Influencing them’: Greenpeace Africa Head of Communications’ Decade of Activism

This episode features a conversation with climate disinformation specialist, Jennie King. Recorded at the end of September 2022.

Jennie is Head of Civic Action and Education at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, or ISD, leading efforts to translate their digital research into frontline programming and response. She co-authored the current ‘Be Internet Citizens’ curriculum, formally accredited for UK schools, and provides regular briefings for UK government departments and regulators, UNESCO, and parallel European and US bodies on systemic approaches to media literacy.

Jennie also oversees ISD’s portfolio on Climate Mis- and Disinformation, supporting a coalition of over 30 organisations worldwide to identify, analyse and counter the related harms. This includes running the first ever COP ‘War Room’ monitoring disinformation threats at the COP26 summit, which is running again at COP27, in Sharm El-Sheikh, Egypt.

In June 2022, Jennie launched the largest ever report on this issue - titled, ‘Deny, Deceive, Delay: Documenting and Responding to Climate Disinformation at COP26 and Beyond’ - on behalf of the Climate Action Against Disinformation coalition.

I was thrilled that she took the time to talk to me about climate disinformation, the role of social media in spreading it, and, amongst other things, some concrete ways that we can make a difference in the information war.

Additional links:

Institute for Strategic Dialogue’s website

Deny, Deceive, Delay: Documenting and Responding to Climate Disinformation at COP26 and Beyond (Executive Summary)

Deny, Deceive, Delay: Documenting and Responding to Climate Disinformation at COP26 and Beyond (Full Report)

This episode features a conversation with Marcos Pelenur, Head of Sustainability and Decarbonization at the Behavioural Insights Team, Americas. It was recorded at the beginning of October 2022.

The Behavioural Insights Team generates and applies behavioural insights to inform policy, improve public services, and deliver results for citizens and society at large. And in his role, Marcos works to develop and implement the Behavioural Insights Team’s sustainability and decarbonization strategy.

Previously, Marcos headed up Strategy, Insights and Regulations at New Zealand’s Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority, which has the mission of mobilising New Zealanders to be world leaders in clean and clever energy use. Here, Marcos worked across government entities to deliver strong, evidence-based programme design, as well as the implementation of energy efficiency standards and regulations.

Prior to this, Marcos worked across a range of senior policy leadership positions at New Zealand’s Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment and also headed the Behavioural Insights Team’s work on energy and sustainability in the UK.

He’s guest lectured on Behavioural Economics at the University of Victoria and taught "Introduction to Behavioural Economics for Policy" for the New Zealand Government Economics Network. He holds a PhD and MPhil in Engineering for Sustainable Development from the University of Cambridge. And before all of that, Marcos worked as an engineer in smart metering and energy management.

Our conversation, which is packed with actions for us, as communicators, to consider in association with our outreach, covers the many and varied ways that behavioural insights can contribute to more effective communications, particularly when it comes to engaging audiences about climate change.

Additional links:

Behavioural Insights Team website

The Little Book of Green Nudges

This episode features a conversation with narrative scholar, Michael D. Jones. It was recorded in September 2022.

Mike is Associate Professor at the University of Tennessee Knoxville’s Department of Political Science and faculty fellow at the Howard H. Baker Jr. Center for Public Policy. He got his PhD in Political Science back in 2010 and went on to be a postdoctoral fellow at the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics at Harvard University.

Currently, he’s editor-in-chief of the Policy Studies Journal and has published in a broad range of journals including Political Psychology, Social Science Quarterly, Policy and Politics, and Critical Policy Studies, amongst others.

Mike’s primary research interest is policy theory, where he has devoted most of his attention to developing the Narrative Policy Framework, a framework focused on understanding the role of stories in shaping policy processes and outcomes.

Our conversation centres around all things narrative, talking about the building blocks that make up stories, why narratives are better than just presenting facts, and some aspects of narrative design that we ought to pay attention to in our communication efforts.

Additional links:

Michael D. Jones on Twitter

A Narrative Policy Framework: Clear Enough to Be Wrong?

Cultural Characters and Climate Change: How Heroes Shape Our Perception of Climate Science

Communicating Climate Change: Are Stories Better than “Just the Facts”?

Narratives as tools for influencing policy change

This episode features a conversation experienced environmental communications practitioner, Joanna Benn. It was recorded in November 2022.

Jo, who works as Director of Strategic Communications Partnerships and Special Projects at the Nature Conservancy, specialises in communicating, campaigning, and writing on international environmental issues. Having started her career as a broadcast journalist, has worked across the globe for think tanks, foundations, and NGOs, as well as the United Nations Environment Programme.

Our discussion jumps off from a recent article Jo wrote about her feeling that the environmental movement is somewhat lacking when it comes to imagination, as well as on getting real with audiences and providing vivid visions of the future and what it will entail for us all.

Additional links:

Jo’s article The Climate Crisis is a Crisis of Imagination

The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson

The Future We Choose by Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett Carnac

Earth4All from The Club of Rome

This episode, an extended holiday special, features a conversation with scientist turned filmmaker and writer, Randy Olson. It was recorded in November 2022.

Randy, who got his PhD at Harvard, left a tenured professorship in marine biology to attend film school, before spending 25 years making movies. His output in this field includes documentary features about attacks on science, and a comedy about global warming that Variety called, “an exceedingly clever vehicle for making science engaging for a general audience”.

By 2008, Randy noted that the anti-science sentiment in society was getting serious, and so started writing books, kicking off with Don’t Be Such A Scientist, which discussed the problem of poor communication of science. Around this time, institutions started asking Randy to run workshops, focused on the solution to this communication problem, which Randy believes resides in the power of narrative structure.

He’s since gone on to write many more books, including Houston, We Have a Narrative, which brought Randy to my attention and, well, literally changed the way I think about communication entirely.

He's done TED Talks, won all kinds of awards, and has trained thousands of scientists, students, and government staff in the power of narrative. Randy is a fountain of knowledge and has an infectious energy.

Our conversation taps into one of the tools from Randy’s latest book, The Narrative Gym, looking at how we can close the gap between a hypothetical world where the last 50 years of communicating climate change had gone perfectly and the world we live in where, in Randy’s opinion, it didn’t. Whether you’re a scientist, a journalist, a marketer, whatever, there’s plenty to chew on.

Please be warned, there is a single f-bomb in this episode.

Additional links:

Randy’s new book, The Narrative Gym

Randy’s website, The ABT Framework

Sizzle, a global warming comedy

Randy’s first book, Don’t Be Such A Scientist

The book that brought Randy to my attention, Houston, We Have a Narrative

1985 Royal Society report about Public Understanding of Science

Michael Crichton’s obfuscation paper from 1975

This episode features a conversation with award-winning campaigner, Harriet Kingaby. It was recorded at the end of October 2022.

Harriet is an activist working at the intersection of advertising, climate change, and misinformation, and has worked with some of the world’s biggest brands, start-ups, and social enterprises to land international climate change campaigns, build brands with purpose, and create behaviour change programs with impact.

She co-founded The Conscious Advertising Network, something we’ll hear plenty about in this episode, and works as Insight Lead at Media Bounty, a creative and media agency that believes environmental and social innovation drives business performance.

After some obligatory Brit-on-Brit weather chat, our conversation gets stuck into all things greenwashing.

Additional links:

Conscious Advertising Network

ACT Climate Labs

Media Bounty

Clean Creatives

Brief Sabotage Handbook

This episode features a conversation with Markus Reymann, Director of the research center and cultural ecosystem, TBA21–Academy. It was recorded in September 2022.

The organisation, which Markus co-founded back in 2011, fosters interdisciplinary dialogue and exchange surrounding the most urgent ecological, social, and economic issues facing the ocean today.

In his role, Markus leads the non-profit’s engagement with artists, activists, scientists, and policy-makers across the globe, catalysing new commissions, bodies of knowledge, and policies that advance the conservation and protection of the ocean.

He also serves as Chair of Alligator Head Foundation, the scientific partner of TBA21–Academy, which maintains the East Portland Fish Sanctuary and oversees a marine wet laboratory in Jamaica.

Markus has presented on art and the oceans at conferences around the world, and represents TBA21–Academy in the Mission Healthy Oceans Board, as an officially endorsed Member of UNESCO’s Decade of Ocean Science, and as an observer at the International Seabed Authority.

Our discussion weaves through the many and varied ways that art can respond to the climate crisis, how it can serve as a bridge between the public and an array of knowledge systems - including, but not limited to - science, and, amongst other things, what sets art apart as a means to connect with an audience.

Additional links:

TBA21-Academy website

Ocean Space in Venice

Joan Jonas - Moving Off the Land II

Jana Winderen - Between Dry Land

This episode features a conversation with Mairi Dupar, a Senior Technical Advisor in the Global Risks and Resilience Programme at independent global think tank, ODI. It was recorded in December 2022.

Mairi, whose expertise lies in climate risk management and ecosystem-based adaptation to climate change, works with colleagues in Africa, South Asia and Latin America on enhancing and restoring ecosystem functions for nature and people as part of a holistic approach to implementing the Paris Agreement on climate change. She’s also worked extensively on social inclusion - especially regarding the rights of women and historically disadvantaged groups - in climate policies and investments.

Mairi has worked at ODI since 2010, where she previously worked as Head of Knowledge Management for the Climate and Development Knowledge Network. She also serves as the Technical Lead of the Knowledge Hub for Gender Equality in a Low Carbon World.

Mairi provides research support for the Climate Ambition Support Alliance, which works to amplify the voice and influence, as well as defend the interests, of small island states and least developed countries in the international climate change negotiations.

Before joining ODI, Mairi worked as a Senior Research Associate at the World Resources Institute. She was also a Campaign Coordinator and science writer at RSPB/BirdLife, working especially on tropical forest restoration, renewable energy and marine conservation.

Amongst other things, our discussion explores where and when certain messengers might not be the best choice, how communicators can work with partners for greater impact, and the importance of always remembering to put things in local terms.

Additional links:

ODI’s website

Communicating climate change - a practitioner’s guide

Free resources from the Climate & Development Knowledge Network

This episode features a conversation with Celine Novenario, Digital Content Manager at the Global Center on Adaptation. It was recorded in February 2023.

Celine is a multimedia storyteller and strategist who has spent the last 15 years deploying communications outreach for international organizations and think tanks ranging from the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative to the World Meteorological Organisation, as well as the United Nations.

During the latter half of that period, Celine’s work has focused specifically on climate change communication, harnessing the latest digital trends and technologies to amplify associated stories and content.

Amongst other things, we discussed the unique ability of social media and digital communications to drive engagement with new audiences and to provide voices to those who might otherwise be voiceless, as well as how we might better conduct ourselves as climate change communicators in this often overwhelming information environment.  

Additional links:

The Global Center on Adaptation's website and State & Trends in Adaptation report

Climate Interactive En-ROADS simulator

A video about the MoA-Info SMS service for farmers

The amazing Katharine Hayhoe

Pique Action on TikTok

The Kurzgesagt video that's an antidote to climate change hopelessness

This episode features a conversation with cognitive scientist, Hugo Mercier. It was recorded in February 2023.

Hugo studies human reasoning and communication, as well as cultural evolution, working out of the Jean Nicod Institute in Paris. He is the co-author, alongside Dan Sperber, of The Enigma of Reason, and the author of Not Born Yesterday: The Science of Who we Trust and What we Believe.

Not Born Yesterday is the book that brought Hugo to my attention and is a highly recommended read for anyone interested in persuasion and influence. If, like me, you come from a marketing and communications background, it might tickle your cognitive biases, but it’s a super constructive read.

Amongst other things, Hugo and I discussed the reasons that climate change is so hard for humans to grasp, how we assess messages we’re exposed to as credible, or not, and what happens when we encounter information that doesn’t align with our existing beliefs.

Additional links:

Not Born Yesterday: The Science of Who We Trust and What We Believe

Hugo’s profile at the Jean Nicod Institute

The Enigma of Reason, co-authored with Dan Sperber

This episode features a conversation with author and entrepreneur, Georgina Wilson-Powell. It was recorded in March 2023.

A consumer-focused sustainability expert with 20 years of experience from the media industry, Georgina is on a mission to make sustainable choices the norm.

Georgina’s accolades include founding Pebble, the UK’s leading sustainable living magazine, as well as launching her own eco festival and creating a purpose-led online community around it. She now focuses on consultancy, speaking, and her own books.

Her first book, “Is It Really Green? Eco Dilemmas Answered” reached the top of the Amazon bestseller charts, whilst her new book “365 Ways To Save The Planet”, which formed the basis of our conversation, has just become available.

Amongst other things, our discussion delved into the value of actions taken at the individual scale, the benefits of encouraging small shifts in behaviour rather than enormous ones, and the pressing need for a broad, inclusive approach to talking about – and acting on – climate change.

Additional links:

Georgina’s website

365 Ways To Save The Planet

Is It Really Green? Eco Dilemmas Answered

This episode features a conversation with Just Stop Oil supporter, Phoebe Plummer. It was recorded in March 2023.

Phoebe, a 21-year-old student from London, has been arrested eight times for acts of civil disobedience associated with nonviolent civil resistance group, Just Stop Oil, most notably after having thrown soup on Van Gogh’s Sunflowers at the National Gallery.

Amongst other things, our discussion explores the role of direct action in response to the climate crisis, the urgency of the situation, and what we, as communicators, can learn from groups like Just Stop Oil.

Additional links:

Just Stop Oil’s website

Just Stop Oil activists throw soup at Van Gogh’s Sunflowers

This episode features a conversation with senior journalist, media researcher, and independent advisor, Alexandra Borchardt. It was recorded in March 2023.

Alexandra, who holds a Ph.D. in Political Science, is the former managing editor of the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany’s major daily newspapers. With a strong journalistic resume, she now teaches, advises, and coaches on topics around journalism, innovation, digital transformation, and leadership, for organisations and institutions including the World Association of News Publishers, The Technical University of Munich, the University of the Arts, Berlin, and Hamburg Media School. She is also affiliated with the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism at the University of Oxford as a Senior Research Associate.

Alexandra is the lead author of the recent European Broadcasting Union’s News Report entitled “Climate Journalism That Works - Between Knowledge and Impact,” which formed the basis of our conversation.

Amongst other things, we discussed the shortfalls of climate journalism conducted over the last few decades, the value of sidestepping big stories and big names in favour of approaches that bring news home to people in their local contexts, and the responsibility that climate journalists hold by virtue of their work.

Photo by Ina Abraham.

Additional links:

The “Climate Journalism That Works - Between Knowledge and Impact” report

Alexandra’s website

Connect with Alexandra on Twitter or LinkedIn

This episode features a conversation with Ravi Sreenath, Managing Director of data-for-good advisory firm, Ripple Research. It was recorded in April 2023.

Ripple Research operates at the intersection of data science, behavioural psychology, and social impact, collaborating with universities, international organizations, and businesses to conduct research and deliver insights on key themes including climate change, misinformation, hate speech, infodemics, ESG, and mental health.

Amongst other things, Ravi and I discussed the benefits of applying big data to pressing challenges like the social impacts of climate change, what aggregated online activity can tell us about society, and how we can use those kinds of insights to create more impactful communication.

Additional links:

Ripple Research’s website

Ripple Research’s work on climate anxiety

Ripple Research’s work on climate polarization

This episode features a conversation with writer, researcher, campaigner, and advisor, Robin Webster. It was recorded at the end of March 2023.

Robin, who’s been knocking around the environmental world for twenty years or so in a variety of roles, first became interested in the disconnect between political debate about climate change and how we talk about it in real life, whilst working as a campaigner for Friends of the Earth.

She went on to help start the now-mighty Carbon Brief when it began life as a climate science and energy blog, and has spent – her words, not mine – more time than is healthy, digging into the intricacies of climate policy, including as a researcher for the European Climate Foundation.

Robin worked at UK-based climate communication organisation, Climate Outreach, from 2018 to 2023, focusing on providing civil society campaigners with knowledge, tools, and research to help them engage all kinds of audiences on climate change.

At the moment she is taking a break, which she thinks everyone in this sector should do on occasion, but I caught her just before she embarked on this new chapter.

Amongst other things, Robin and I discussed the challenges associated with talking about climate change with family, friends, and others; what doing so can achieve in relation to the bigger picture; and what a good climate conversation looks like.

Additional links:

The Climate Outreach Talking Climate Handbook

Julia Steinberger's article that Robin quoted - "The kids are not OK"

Climate Outreach report on communicating climate justice with younger people across Europe is here

Climate Outreach website

This episode features a conversation with Solveig Zophoniasdottir, Head of Learning at the EU’s main climate innovation initiative, Climate-KIC. It was recorded in March 2023.

Solveig, who’s worked to expand and facilitate the learning processes of organisations for over 15 years, focuses on skill building and shifting mindsets to catalyse transformation in the climate space. She’s an expert practitioner, working to create change both within and across different cultures, and is passionate about systems change and systems innovation.

Amongst other things, Solveig and I discussed the need for systems perspectives in efforts to address the climate crisis, what communicators can learn from this kind of thinking, and the value of embracing uncertainty, complexity, and experimentation.

Additional links:

The Climate-KIC website

Dave Snowden - How to organise a children’s party

The Cynefin Framework

Over past episodes, we’ve heard from communications practitioners, academics, activists, and many more, all sharing their respective insights into how we might better communicate climate change. Despite the range of perspectives, though, these guests all had one thing in common: They’re adults.

This time, I wanted to explore a very different worldview, that of a child, to see if there might be valuable lessons we could learn and incorporate into our own approaches to communicating climate change. And, I have to say, by the end of this episode, I think you’ll agree that there are plenty.

This episode features a conversation with 11-year-old climate podcaster, Zachary Fox-DeVol. It was recorded in April 2023. Zach is the host of We The Children, a podcast discussing climate change and solutions to global warming from a kid’s perspective.

Amongst other things, Zach and I talked about climate anxiety and feelings of helplessness in younger generations and the wider public, the gaps he perceives in climate communication as it stands today, how he stays up to date on climate news, and who his climate heroes are and why.

I also got the chance to ask one of Zach’s moms, Carol, a few questions about the impact that raising such an engaged child has had on their family life, as well as any advice she might have for parents in a similar position.

Additional links:

Zach’s website can be found here.

This episode features a conversation with climate communications expert and business activist, Lucy von Sturmer. It was recorded in February 2023.

Lucy is the initiator and chair of Creatives for Climate, a global non-profit turning professionals into change agents through training courses, collaborative projects, and a fast-growing community committing their creativity to driving positive impact.

She is also CEO of The Humblebrag, an award-winning climate communications agency working to support business leaders and brands in taking a stand on social, cultural, and environmental issues.

Recognized by The University of Auckland as a “40 Under 40” change-maker and featured in Forbes as a creative leader to watch, Lucy has over a decade of experience building movements and leading global brands to have a positive impact at scale.

Amongst other things, Lucy and I talked about theories of change, divesting talent from polluting industries, and how inevitable personal limitations make radical collaboration a weapon of choice.

Additional links:

Join Creatives for Climate

Check out the Creatives for Climate Greenwash Watch training

What’s a theory of change anyway?

Badvertising - Stop adverts fuelling the climate emergency

Clean Creatives - Cutting ties with the fossil fuel industry

This episode features a conversation with youth climate activist and advocate of indigenous perspectives, Keshoe Isaiah. It was recorded at the end of June 2023.

Keshoe, who hails from Kenya’s Maasai community, works to amplify the voices of indigenous and local communities.

He is a member of Fridays For Future Kenya, contributes to Penn State’s UN-supported Global Youth Storytelling and Research Lab, serves as the country representative for Kenya at the youth-led Mock COP summit, and is also the Head of Environment and Climate Change at Kenya’s National Youth Caucus.

He currently studies economics and finance at The Catholic University of Eastern Africa, focusing on climate finance.

Amongst other things, Keshoe and I discussed the indivisibility of nature and culture within the Maasai community, the role of indigenous perspectives in conservation and adaptation, and the power of stories to carry important information across generations.

Additional links:

Fridays For Future Kenya

Penn State’s UN-supported Global Youth Storytelling and Research Lab

The Mock COP summit

Kenya’s National Youth Caucus

MAIN Network

This episode features a conversation with Melis Figanmeşe, campaigns lead at IFRC, The International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent. It was recorded in June 2023.

Through her work, which focuses on climate communications, Melis is tasked with bringing together 191 Red Cross and Red Crescent societies and 14 million volunteers around the world to campaign together.

In this capacity, she’s launched an award-winning campaign, #ClimateChangedMe, together with Greta Thunberg, and continues to find compelling ways to raise the alarm on the climate crisis through storytelling.

Amongst other things, Melis and I discussed how stories can help audiences relate to the ways that climate change is impacting the lives of others, the importance of cutting out the jargon and communicating with accessible language, and some practical tips for running successful campaigns at scale.

Additional links:

The #ClimateChangedMe campaign

International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent

This episode features a conversation with disaster communication specialist, Dr Dennis John Sumaylo. It was recorded in June 2023.

In his work, Dennis investigates the intersection of pre-disaster communication and community engagement in the context of geographic isolation and socio-economic inequalities.

Examining these issues has helped him design multimodal and gamified learning tools for supplementing disaster risk reduction classes in the Philippines.

His new book, entitled, Engaging Isolated Communities in Disaster Preparation and Communication in the Philippines is published through Springer Nature, explores social power, relationships, and experiences as avenues to community engagement in pre-disaster communication.

Amongst other things, Dennis and I discussed a range of real-world audiences and the ways that their respective experiences with disasters impact their communications needs, we delved into the roles of trust and power in disaster communication, and the value of a media spotlight when it comes to disaster recovery and relief.

Additional links:

Dennis’ book Engaging Isolated Communities in Disaster Preparation and Communication in the Philippines

The fantastic book on climate communication that led me to Dennis’ work

This episode features a conversation with international communications expert, Josephine Latu-Sanft. It was recorded in September 2023.

With nearly two decades of experience in journalism, communications, and education, Josephine’s work focuses on global issues like climate change, ocean protection, and sustainable development.

Advocating for the empowerment of small island developing nations or, as I’ll be calling them from now on, big ocean sustainable states, Josephine draws from her personal experience growing up in climate-vulnerable Tonga.

Amongst other things, we discussed the need to challenge portrayals of climate-vulnerable peoples in the media, the ways that words can influence reality, and the power that shifting established narratives can have on the perceptions and perspectives of such communities.

Additional links:

Check out Josephine’s TEDX talk here

Follow Josephine on X (formerly Twitter)

This episode features a conversation with Kevin Green, of international conservation and development organization, Rare. It was recorded in October 2023.

Kevin leads Rare’s Center for Behavior & the Environment, collaborating with field staff, partners and researchers in bringing the best insights from the science of human behavior to bear on the world’s most pressing environmental challenges.

Kevin, who holds a Master’s degree in international development and economics from Johns Hopkins University and a Bachelor’s degree in anthropology and sociology from Washington and Lee University, is a faculty member of the Kinship Conservation Fellows program. He has previously held roles in research at the Nature Conservancy and the Worldwatch Institute.

Amongst other things, Kevin and I discussed Rare’s eight principles for effective and inviting climate communication, the unrivaled ability that humans have for solving certain types of problems, and the challenge communicators therefore face in communicating climate change in such a way that makes it the type of problem we’re already adept at solving.

Additional links:

Rare’s Eight Principles for Effective & Inviting Climate Communication

Rare’s Center for Behavior & The Environment

Switch by Dan and Chip Heath, a book recommendation from Kevin telling the story of the St. Lucia parrot.

The smart-meter study that Kevin referred to in our chat about norms.

This episode features a conversation with seasoned scholar, author, and expert on all-things activism, Professor Dana R. Fisher. It was recorded in October 2023.

Dana is the Director of the Center for Environment, Community, & Equity at American University. She’s a Nonresident Senior Fellow with the Governance Studies program at The Brookings Institution, is President of the Eastern Sociological Society, and is the chair-elect of the Political Sociology section of the American Sociological Association.

She served as a Contributing Author for Working Group 3 of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Sixth Assessment Review, writing about citizen engagement and civic activism, and her media appearances include, to name but a few: ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS Newshour, NPR, BBC, and CBC. And her words have appeared in likes of the Washington Post, Slate, TIME Magazine, Politico, Vox, and the New York Times.

Professor Fisher has authored over 75 peer-reviewed articles and book chapters, and her seventh book, Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action, which formed the basis of our conversation, will be will be out in early 2024. Pre-order it here.

Amongst other things, Dana and I discussed the role of disruptive tactics within the broader climate movement, the relationship between such tactics and the media, and what the future will likely hold when it comes to activism associated with the climate crisis.

Additional links:

Pre-order Dana’s latest book Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action

Visit Dana’s website

See Dana on TMZ talking about the radical flank effect

This episode features a conversation Nick Oldridge, co-founder of Climate Science Breakthrough, a project working to translate the hard data of climate change into emotional, shareable, and actionable formats. It was recorded in November 2023.

Nick is an advocate for climate awareness and is an ambassador for Zero Hour, a campaign in support of establishing the UK’s Climate & Ecology Bill. He dedicates himself to narrowing the divide between the general public and the complexities of climate science. Nick applies his background in marketing to his work in environmental advocacy, bringing this experience to bear in his efforts to convey intricate climate issues to a diverse audience.

Motivated by a pressing need to broaden the public's grasp of climate science, in 2023, Nick co-founded Climate Science Breakthrough alongside climate communications lab, Utopia Bureau, and is focused on initiating a societal transformation that accelerates climate action. Recent videos in the Climate Science Translated series include contributions from comedians Jonathan Pie, Nish Kumar, and Jo Brand.

Amongst other things, Nick and I discussed the rationale behind Climate Science Breakthrough’s work bringing together climate scientists and comedians to create viral climate content, what makes comedians a useful vehicle for this kind of information in the first place, and the value that marketing minds can bring to the climate context.

Additional links:

Watch the latest videos from Climate Science Breakthrough on YouTube

Visit the Climate Science Breakthrough website

Follow the project on Instagram or Twitter.

This episode features a conversation Funmibi Ogunlesi, interim Head of Messaging at NEON, an organization working to accelerate social movements through training, relationship building, incubation, and infrastructure support. It was recorded at the beginning of November 2023.

In her role, Funmibi supports the likes of campaigners and activist groups in communicating their issues with effective frames and powerful messages. She was part of the Framing Climate Justice project and was one of the writers of the Climate Justice guide. She’s since gone on to write guides for COP, including on Loss and Damage.

Amongst other things, Funmibi and I discussed the impact that different framing strategies can have on people’s perception of an issue, why pointing the finger at those responsible for the harms around us is essential, and how doing so can combat fatalism and help give people agency to act.

Additional links:

Visit the NEON website

The Framing Climate Justice project

The Climate Justice guide

Find more info about ULEZ here

Explore the Green New Deal Rising campaign

Watch the recording of “Attack, Engage or Ignore? The role of ‘the enemy’ in climate narratives” here

This episode features a conversation with Florencia Lujani, Strategy Director at ACT Climate Labs. It was recorded in November 2023.

With over 15 years’ experience working at a slew of top creative agencies, Florencia is an expert in brand strategy, creative planning and ideation, as well as in consumer and cultural insights.

She has developed strategies and creative campaigns for globally recognised brands and non-profits like YouTube, Friends of the Earth, KitKat, Greenpeace, Chelsea football club, O2, the Olympic Games, and many more.

In her role at ACT Climate Labs, Florencia now supports climate organisations reach a new audience called “The Persuadables,” who are considered key to increasing public support for climate action.

Amongst other things, Florencia and I discussed the latest research conducted to better understand the persuadables, the ways that information we’re exposed to shapes our perceptions of the world, and lessons that those working in the climate space could learn from marketing and advertising.

Additional links:

Visit the ACT Climate Labs website

Access the latest Persuadables research here

Read more about the Persuadables here

This episode features a conversation with game designer, Matt Leacock. It was recorded in January 2024.

Matt is best known as a designer of cooperative games, including Pandemic, Pandemic Legacy, Forbidden Island, and Daybreak. Pandemic, first published in 2008, has sold over 5 million copies worldwide and is available in over 30 languages. Matt’s latest game, Daybreak challenges players to stop climate change.

Amongst other things, Matt and I discussed the role of play in learning, the ways that games can help people understand and model complexity, and how increased interactivity can deepen audience engagement on climate issues.

Photo by Owen Duffy.

Additional links:

Daybreak website

Daybreak gameplay video

Matt Leacock website

Washington Post climate warming guessing game

This episode features a conversation with psychologist, Markus Appel. It was recorded in November 2023.

Markus is professor of media communication at the University of Würzburg, Germany. His work sits at the intersection of psychology and communication science, with major research areas including life in the digital age, media and reality, and, most pertinent to our conversation, narratives and persuasion.

Amongst other things, Markus and I discussed the ability of stories to impact people’s attitudes and behaviours, what makes some stories more persuasive than others, and some caution that communicators should keep in mind when using the powerful tool that is storytelling.

Additional links:

Markus’ website

Access Markus’ research into narratives and persuasion here

An example of education entertainment in Ethiopian radio soap operas

The McKee Triangle of story structures

This episode features a conversation with communication designer, researcher, and semiotician, Dr. Laura Santamaria. It was recorded in January 2024.

Laura’s work focuses on developing insights and methodologies for influencing paradigm change towards social and environmental justice. And her passion lies in empowering organisations and professionals with the necessary tools to achieve such change.

With over two decades of experience in brand strategy, design innovation and cultural research, she has honed her skills across a wide array of sectors, including finance, consumer goods, fashion, charities, and startups.

Laura is currently Research Lead at the Royal College of Art’s School of Communication, while continuing her work as an independent consultant in the private sector.

Amongst other things, Laura and I discussed how humans, whether as individuals or in communities, construct meaning, how meanings can become appropriated or changed over time, and why deep contextual knowledge is vital to understanding how climate messages might be received by given audiences.

Additional links:

Laura’s paper entitled, “Seeing the Invisible: revisiting the value of critical tools in design research for social change”.

Another good one entitled, “It’s All About Con[Text]: A Design Semiotics Approach for Managing Meaning-Value in Innovation Processes” from Marketing Semiotics: A Research Guide for Marketers at the Edge of Culture.

The Words that Work guide, which Laura contributed to and is a great read.

Plus a fascinating paper Laura shared from Wolsko, and colleagues, entitled, “Red, White, and Blue Enough to Be Green: Effects of Moral Framing on Climate Change Attitudes and Conservation Behaviors.”

And some additional insight from Jane Bryson, from 2008. “Dominant, Emergent, and Residual Culture: The Dynamics of Organizational Change.”

This episode features a conversation with Project Drawdown’s Director of Storytelling and Engagement, Matt Scott. It was recorded in February 2024.

Matt works to help everyday people find their role in climate solutions and climate justice at the community level. He’s the host of the climate solutions short documentary series Drawdown's Neighborhood, featured on the Weather Channel's Pattrn streaming network, and is the founding director of Drawdown Stories, both of which we get into during this conversation.

Prior to his work at Project Drawdown, Matt was the global community lead for NASA’s International Space Apps Challenge, the world's largest global problem-solving hackathon, engaging over 100,000 people across more than 150 countries. He’s also worked with the Australian Government, Pivotal Ventures by Melinda Gates, USAID, the United Nations, Nike, Walmart, and the Obama White House.

Amongst other things, Matt and I discussed the power of spotlighting climate solutions and the people working to implement them, how telling such stories can propagate hope and action, and the importance of passing the mic to diverse voices that often go unheard, as well as what happens when we don’t.

Additional links:

Submit your story to the Global Solutions Diary!

Explore Drawdown Stories

Get to know Drawdown’s Neighborhood

We can’t end the climate crisis without “passing the mic”

Project Drawdown homepage

You can follow Matt on X, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

This episode features a conversation with CEO and co-founder of Redwood Climate Communications, Josh Garrett. It was recorded in November 2023.

Having spent more than half of his almost two decades of strategic communications and marketing experience committed to clean energy and climate tech, Josh co-founded the climate-focused advisory and public relations firm Redwood Climate Communications in September 2021 and has since led the growth of the company while maintaining its commitment to facilitating climate progress.

Over the course of his career, Josh has led campaigns for climate organizations large and small, including Google Nest, Stem, and Sunrun, as well as environmental non-profits like The Nature Conservancy.

Amongst other things, Josh and I discussed the state of political polarization on climate issues in the United States, what this poster child of partisanship can teach us about communicating climate change across the aisle, and which bright spots we might look to for inspiration.

Additional links:

Visit the Redwood Climate Communications website

Check out Rewiring America and Pique Action

Yale Program on Climate Change Communication’s 6 Americas of Global Warming

This episode features a conversation with Katherine Dunn, Content Editor at the Oxford Climate Journalism Network, a program led by the University of Oxford’s Reuters Institute. It was recorded in March 2024.

Through her work at the Oxford Climate Journalism Network (or OCJN) Katherine has worked with more than 500 journalists from over 100 countries, seeking to improve climate literacy and climate storytelling. In 2023, she was a co-author of the European Broadcasting Union’s, “Climate Journalism That Works”, a report on how newsrooms can better cover climate change and build a climate strategy. I actually discussed this amazing resource in a previous episode, with Alexandra Borchardt, so, though Katherine and I didn’t talk about it here, if you’re interested, you can find a link to that episode below.

Before joining the Reuters Institute, Katherine spent the best part of a decade working as a reporter and editor in business journalism, with a focus on the energy and commodities markets and industries. This included a stint as editor at Fortune magazine, where she covered climate change and the energy transition.

Amongst other things, Katherine and I discussed what makes an effective climate news story, the obligations of newsrooms when it comes to addressing climate issues, and the unique role of meteorologists in delivering relevant and actionable local climate insights.

Additional links:

About the Oxford Climate Journalism Network

Climate news insights from The Reuters Institute

Insights on news avoidance from The Digital News Report

“Find your mango” and other learnings from the OCJN

The BBC’s “Life at 50C” series

The New Yorker’s stories about electricians 

My interview with Alexandra Borchardt about the “Climate Journalism That Works” report.

This episode features a conversation with John Marshall, CEO of the Potential Energy Coalition. It was recorded in March 2024.

John’s three decades of experience in advising the leaders of Fortune 500 companies spans branding, marketing, innovation, and digital transformation. As well as his work leading Potential Energy Coalition, John is a Professor at Dartmouth College, a senior client advisor at the marketing consulting firm, Lippincott, and he’s even delivered a Ted Talk on climate change too.

John’s been a partner at consulting firms big and small, and a frequent industry commentator, speaker, and marketing writer whose words have graced the likes of the Harvard Business Review, Forbes, The New York Times, Wired, and Fast Company.

Amongst other things, John and I discussed radical audience centricity, the down sides of using crisis messaging, and how we can more successfully sell the troubled “brand” that is climate change.

Additional links:

Sign up to the “That’s Interesting!” newsletter on Potential Energy Coalition’s website

The Talk Like a Human guide

The Later is Too Late report and interactive tool

John’s TED Talk on effectively talking about climate change

This episode features a conversation with Tory Stephens, who manages all things climate fiction at independent, non-profit media organization, Grist. It was recorded in March 2024.

Tory is a force for good. He creates opportunities and interventions that transform organizations and shift culture, building communities around social justice issues and using storytelling to champion green, clean, and just futures.

In his role at Grist, Tory oversees the annual Imagine 2200 climate fiction contest, engaging writers from across the globe in envisioning the next generations of climate progress. Whether built on abundance or adaptation, reform or a new understanding of survival, these stories serve as a springboard for exploring how fiction can help create a better reality.

Amongst other things, Tory and I discussed the ins and outs of the cli-fi genre, how this medium is key to reaching otherwise inaccessible audiences, and how speculative imaginings can inspire change in the here and now.

Additional links:

Visit Grist’s website

Learn more about the Imagine 2200 climate fiction contest

Discover the Imagine 2200 catalogue

Listen to the audio versions

Explore Humans of New York

Denzel Washington “It’s not color, it’s culture”

Kim Stanley Robinson’s Ministry for the Future

This episode features a conversation with Thomas Coombes, Founder and Director of narrative change organization, Hope-based communications. It was recorded in January 2024.

Hope-based communications is a simple, open-source tool for anyone to use, as well as a community anyone can join. It centres around a pledge to apply five shifts to any and all communications output. Those shifts are fear to hope, problem to solution, against to for, threat to opportunity, and victims to everyday heroes.

It’s a pragmatic approach to winning support for policies and advocacy positions by showing how they’ll actually work, acting on the principle that we should be focused on building the world we want, setting the agenda with our values, our goals, our mission, rather than reacting to our opponent's frames and actions.

Borne of learnings and epiphanies during Thomas’ prior roles at Amnesty International and the European Commission, Hope-based communications offers a simple formula for telling stories of our own that contribute to the long-term changes in ideas, attitudes and behaviours, that we want to bring about.

Amongst other things, Thomas and I discussed the concept of hope as both active and visionary, how flipping our intuitions inside out and focusing on particular aspects of a story over others can strengthen our output, and how our brains work to trip us up at so many points along the way.

Additional links:

Visit the hope-based communications website

Check out Thomas’s TED Talk

Thomas’ article "Hope is Action”

Thomas’s piece "“A New Green Wave of Hope”

Follow Thomas on Substack or LinkedIn

“A Message From the Future” from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

This episode features a conversation with Simone Salvo, Creative Director at Third Act, an organization harnessing unparalleled generational power to safeguard the climate and democracy. It was recorded in June 2024.

Simone’s work blends design, media, and technology to bridge generational and digital divides and drive impactful social change. In her role at Third Act, she leads the charge in building an accessible technological infrastructure for a powerful elder-led climate justice movement, amplifying the progressive activism of Americans over sixty, under the guidance of environmentalist Bill McKibben.

Previously, Simone was Head of Creative Communications at the Magnum Foundation, serving a global network of social justice-focused image makers, as well as committing herself to a research and communications fellowship at Human Rights First, a non-partisan organization working to right human wrongs.

She’s also an adjunct faculty member at the NYU-Tisch Interactive Telecommunications Program, where she teaches courses on memory and immersive media, where her focus is on leveraging technology to enhance storytelling, rather than the other way around.

Amongst other things, Simone and I discussed the practicalities involved in engaging older adults on the climate, the enormous, largely-untapped structural power that this demographic brings to the table, and the unique ability of legacy to motivate people to take action.

Additional links:

Visit the Third Act website

Discover the Summer of Heat campaign

Read Bill McKibben’s article, “Photo editors get lazy in the heat”

Watch as a 100 year-old woman gets arrested on her birthday

See that photo of Dorothy Day and the Farmworker Movement

Communicating Climate Change is launching a Call-In Show!

That means, it’s time for you to join the conversation.

Do you have questions related to climate communication?

Maybe you’re running into challenges developing your own climate-related output?

Or perhaps you’ve seen or heard some related content or news that you thought needed closer examination?  

Well, that’s exactly what we’re looking for!

Simply head to communicatingclimatechange.com to submit a voice message about your challenge or example and it might be featured on an upcoming episode, where listener input will provide a springboard for brainstorming, problem solving, and broader discussion.

Guidance on submitting to the Call-In Show:

Step 1: Go to the Call-In Show page.

Step 2: Hit the “Start Recording” button.

Step 3: Describe your challenge, example, or observation.

Step 4: Hit the “Stop” button when you’re done.

Step 5: Enter your name and email if you want (it’s optional) and hit “Send”.

Step 6: Tune in to the Call-In Show to see if your message gets featured!

I can’t wait hear from you!

This episode features a conversation with climate scholar and youth climate activist, Wawa Gatheru. It was recorded in July 2024.

Wawa is the founder and Executive Director of Black Girl Environmentalist, an organization dedicated to empowering Black girls, women, and non-binary people across the climate sector.

Wawa works to bring climate justice to the mainstream, and in addition to her work at Black Girl Environmentalist, is a popular climate content creator, focused on debunking climate nihilism, highlighting the unique contributions of Black environmental leaders, and equipping her audience with what they need to get involved in climate action.

In 2019, Wawa was named the first Black person in history to receive the prestigious Rhodes, Truman and Udall scholarships for her environmental scholarship and activism.

She has since become an inaugural member of the National Environmental Youth Advisory Council of the US EPA, the first federal youth-led advisory board in the US History. She is also a Public Voices Fellow on the Climate Crisis with The OpEd Project, in partnership with the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication.

Wawa sits on boards and advisory councils for EarthJustice, Climate Power, the Environmental Media Association, the National Parks Conservation Association, Good Energy, and Sound Future.

And, for her work alongside other organizers and activists, Wawa has been recognized as a Forbes 30 under 30 recipient, an AfroTech Future 50, a 776 Fellow, Young Futurist by The Root, a Grist 50 FIXER, a Glamour College Woman of the Year, and named a Climate Creator to Watch by Pique Action and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

In January 2023, she even joined Billie Eilish and seven other climate activists on the cover of Vogue.

Amongst other things, Wawa and I discussed the largely unsung leadership of African American women in environmental stewardship, the make-up and mechanics of inclusive and participatory movement building, and the need to amplify alternatives to the exclusionary narratives that dominate the climate space and beyond.

Additional links:

Visit the Black Girl Environmentalist website

Visit Wawa’s personal website

Read the Vice piece that sent Wawa viral

Check out the digital Vogue cover with Billie Eilish

Read Wawa’s Earth Day 2024 article in Vogue

Find insights on inclusivity over at the Green 2.0 website

Battling Petrochemical Expansion in Cancer Alley with Rise St. James

Explore The Vessel Project of Louisiana

Discover The Descendants Project

This episode features a conversation with film producer, Adam Stanhope. It was recorded in July 2024.

Alongside the likes of Mike Medavoy, Rodrigo Blaas, Keith Chapman, and executive producer, Leonardo DiCaprio, Adam produced the animated feature film, Ozi – Voice of the Forest, which hits theatres across the globe on August 16th.

With a background in marketing and media, Adam has helped finance and produce an array of programmes across a range of genres, including Sky Atlantic’s Grierson-nominated sports documentary, The Fall, BBC Worldwide’s Earth, and Channel 4’s Ministry at the Dome.

Adam’s media career started in the 1980s, selling airtime for British TV network, ITV, before working his way up the ranks to Director at hugely successful UK Advertising agency Still Price Court Twivy d’Souza.

After leading one of IPG’s Global Media Agencies, Initiative Media, working with clients like Unilever, Johnson and Johnson, Coca Cola and Virgin Atlantic, Adam co-founded GCI Film to produce and finance movies.

Adam’s passions are film and the environment, and the Voices franchise, of which Ozi – Voice of the Forest is the first instalment, seeks to raise climate change awareness for a new generation.

Amongst other things, Adam and I discussed the power of animation to act as a vehicle for climate literacy, the challenges that large productions can run into as they prepare to launch, and what superstars, like DiCaprio, can bring to such projects.

Additional links:

Visit the official website for Ozi – Voice of the Forest

Watch the trailer for Ozi - Voice of the Forest

Find out more about Orangutan Coffee

Explore International Animal Rescue’s Orangutan Project

Check out the Oscar-winning short film, The Silent Child

This episode features a conversation with Bogdan Glogovac, Partnerships Manager at Ducky, a Norwegian technology company working to turn climate efforts from a solo struggle into something fun, collaborative and engaging. It was recorded in July 2024.

With a background in Ecology, Marine Biology, and Conservation, Bogdan has spent more than a decade nurturing strategic relationships, creating and managing climate campaigns, and facilitating climate engagement workshops for a wide range of stakeholders across the public and private sectors.

Ducky offers software solutions to help track, report and reduce organizational climate footprints. One such solution, Ducky Challenge, is a digital competition that helps companies, communities, and collectives raise climate awareness and educate peers in a fun and engaging bottom-up approach.

As a father of three boys and a member of Trondheim-based improvisational theater group "Gibberish", Bogdan is passionate about playfulness. Something that, as you’ll hear, plays a major part in his life and work.  

Amongst other things, Bogdan and I discussed the art of turning data into stories, the magic and mechanics of gamification, and what the wisdom of improv has to offer when it comes to tackling challenges like climate change.

Additional links:

Visit the Ducky website

Explore Ducky Challenge

Discover the Forest app

Learn more about Green Apes

This time, instead of chatting to a special guest, listeners just like you are joining the conversation. It’s a Call-In Show!

Over the last couple of months, all kinds of voice messages have been submitted by listeners to act as a springboard for brainstorming, problem solving, and broader discussion around a range of climate communication challenges, observations, and questions. 

Through the course of this episode, we’ll dig into a number of them, exploring themes like greenwashing, backfire effects, and some other fundamentals of the craft. 

But we won’t just be pointing out flaws and failures. This is a show about solutions. So, I’ll be looking to a kaleidoscope of disciplines and perspectives, as well as the wisdom of previous Communicating Climate Change podcast guests, to find a path forward in each case.

If you want to leave a voice message of your own, whether to respond to a topic discussed in this episode or to raise a new one for consideration for the next call-in show, just head over to the Call-In Show page. It couldn’t be easier to get involved!

Guidance on submitting to the Call-In Show:

Step 1: Go to the Call-In Show page.

Step 2: Hit the “Start Recording” button.

Step 3: Describe your challenge, example, or observation.

Step 4: Hit the “Stop” button when you’re done.

Step 5: Enter your name and email if you want (it’s optional) and hit “Send”.

Step 6: Tune in to the Call-In Show to see if your message gets featured!

I can’t wait hear from you!

Additional links

See Ellie’s original post about the restaurant here

Read the original magazine article here (note that this has now been updated and no longer features the steak restaurant being discussed)

Check out the UK’s Advertising Standards Agency documentation for the Alpro and BrewDog cases

Explore the Creatives for Climate Greenwash Watch Training

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Alexandra Borchardt exploring climate journalism that works

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Jennie King digging into climate mis- and disinformation

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Harriet Kingaby on all things greenwashing

Here’s the Guardian article raised in Joseph’s call

Discover my foundational course in climate change communication on the Creatives for Climate community hub

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With John Marshall about climate messaging that works

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Thomas Coombes about hope-based communications

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Florencia Lujani about engaging the persuadables

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Funmibi Ogunlesi about communication framing

Read the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication article about pro-climate voters

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Kevin Green about behaviour change

Listen to Communicating Climate Change With Marcos Pelenur about what we can learn from behavioural insights

This episode features a conversation with Brooklyn-based climate communicator, creator, and independent reporter, Jacob Simon. It was recorded in August 2024.

As the mind behind Jacobsimonsays, a platform telling real stories of progress to replace dread and fear with hope and action, Jacob inspires his audience of well over half a million people across social media and his newsletter, Climativity, to overcome eco-anxiety and get involved with tackling the climate crisis through optimism, community, and action.

Jacobsimonsays has racked up more than 83 million views, over 11 million likes, and maintains a following of more than 700,000 individuals who tune in every day to hear stories about those tackling the climate crisis and learn about simple and impactful actions they can take to protect the environment.

Amongst other things, Jacob and I discussed the trials and tribulations of being a social media influencer, where to draw your line in the sand when it comes to collaborations, and the kinds of content that performs best on climate and environmental topics.

Additional links:

Follow Jacobsimonsays on TikTok

Follow Jacobsimonsays on Instagram

Visit the Jacobsimonsays website

Check out Jacob’s Climativity newsletter

Read Social tipping dynamics for stabilizing Earth’s climate by 2050

This episode features a conversation with Iminza Mbwaya, Programme Manager at Sounds Right, a platform for global music artists to help nature fund its own conservation. It was recorded in September, 2024.

Sounds Right is an initiative by the Museum for the United Nations - UN Live, an agile extension of the United Nations, exploring unconventional pathways to spark global empathy, action and change through the power of popular culture and dialogue. 

At Sounds Right, Iminza brings strategic, creative, and legal skillsets to the table to support the program development, design, and implementation. 

Before joining the UN Live team, Iminza worked with Dalberg Global Development Advisors and afrocentric impact firm, Axum, where, amongst other things, her work focused on designing and piloting novel concepts for outsized impact and sustainable returns. 

Iminza is also a performing singer-songwriter and has a background in Intellectual Property Law, where she advised creatives and businesses on how to identify, protect, and monetize their intellectual property assets. 

Amongst other things, Iminza and I discussed the real-world impacts of presenting nature as an independent music artist, what happens to the royalties generated through Sounds Right, and how reconceptualising nature in this way can shift how we think about and engage with it altogether.

Additional links:

Head to the Sounds Right website

Explore NATURE’s discography on Spotify

Discover a playlist of top NATURE collaborations on Spotify

Check out the Museum for the United Nations website

Visit the EarthPercent website

This episode features a conversation with Hikaru Wakeel Hayakawa, Executive Director of Climate Cardinals, one of the world’s largest youth-led climate advocacy organisations, who work to make the climate movement more accessible to those who don’t speak English. It was recorded in August, 2024.

In his role, Hikaru oversees a volunteering program that is projected to grow to over 60,000 volunteers by the end of 2024, translating climate-related information into over 100 different languages.

Hikaru established Climate Cardinals’ signature translation program in partnership with Translators Without Borders and Google Cloud,  expanding the organisation’s translation capacity to a million words per year. 

Under Hikaru’s watch, Climate Cardinals has handled translation requests for over two million words of climate information, has fundraised for a six-figure budget, and became one of the first-ever youth-led organizations to be funded by Google’s philanthropic branch. 

Hikaru represents Climate Cardinals as part of UNESCO’s Youth Climate Action Network Steering Committee, a network of networks that represents over 10 million youth climate activists, and has spoken about his work for the Smithsonian, the UN Development Programme, the Italian Ministry of the Environment, the March On Foundation, Williams College, and the U.S. Interagency Group on Climate Literacy. His work has also been featured in Axios, the Guardian, Forbes, and Teen Vogue.

All this, while still a university student.

Amongst other things, Hikaru and I discussed the fact that more than 90% of scientific information about climate change is only available in English, the challenges that this presents in terms of engagement and justice for the global majority, and the power this translation gap has when it comes to fueling climate misinformation.

Additional links:

Visit the Climate Cardinals website

Climate Cardinals Founder Sophia Kianni’s TED Talk

Join the Climate Cardinals mailing list

Candis Callison’s book, “How Climate Comes to Matter”

This episode features a conversation with Ukrainian journalist, Serhii Barbu. It was recorded in September, 2024.

With over 10 years of experience as a professional journalist, Serhii specialises in covering energy-related issues. His main place of work is Kyiv-based, Channel 5, where he holds the position of a special correspondent and news anchor, and has previously acted as special correspondent from the UN headquarters in New York.

Serhii also collaborates with two online publications: LB.ua and the Ukrainian Energy Magazine. 

I met Serhii at a conference on climate journalism organized by n-ost, a network for journalists reporting on Eastern Europe, held in Tbilisi, Georgia, earlier this year. I was there to hear the experiences of those reporting on climate despite a range of challenges, including censorship, authoritarianism, and full-scale war, and Serhii’s stories really stuck with me. I was very glad that he agreed to chat for the podcast.

Amongst other things, Serhii and I discussed the intersection of climate change and the conflict in Ukraine, how climate-related disinformation is weaponised by the Russian war machine, and how climate doomism fails in the face of more immediate existential threats.

Additional links:

Channel 5’s YouTube channel

Ukraine’s Channel 5 news website

Check out LB.ua

Serhii’s profile on the n-ost website

This episode features a conversation with Iryna Ponedelnik, Climate Project Manager at n-ost, a network for journalists reporting on Eastern Europe. It was recorded in person, in Tbilisi, Georgia, in August, 2024.

Iryna is a science communicator who manages projects in the field of climate change, youth engagement, and the sustainable development goals. 

As well as her work at n-ost, Iryna is a representative of Green Network, a partnership of environmental organizations, activists, initiatives, and experts united for the development of the green movement in Belarus. 

She’s a board member of the Climate Action Network for Eastern Europe, Caucasus and Central Asia, has acted as an observer at COP and SB negotiations, and was awarded a green ticket for the UN Youth Climate Conference in 2019. 

Iryna and I met back in June of this year, during the UN Climate Meetings in Bonn, Germany, where I was delivering some climate communications training alongside folks from UNU-EHS and UNFCCC. Iryna was quick to question the relevance of some approaches for contexts where, for example, freedom of speech was limited. 

Following further discussion, Iryna invited me to attend n-ost’s conference on climate journalism in Tbilisi, Georgia, to hear the experiences of those reporting on climate despite a range of challenges, including censorship, authoritarianism, and full-scale war.

Amongst other things, Iryna and I discussed the lack of visibility the region has on the international stage, the surreality of being labeled an extremist, and the need to live in exile in order to talk about climate change.

Additional links:

Check out the Climate Action Network Eastern Europe, Caucasus, and Central Asia

Find out more about the n-ost network for cross-border journalism

Read about and support Green Network

This episode features a conversation with investigative journalist, Tsira Gvasalia. It was recorded in person, in Tbilisi, Georgia, in August, 2024, at the n-ost conference for climate journalism. It is one of four episodes dedicated to issues complicating climate communication in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus region. 

Tsira is an investigative and science journalist based in Tbilisi, Georgia. She is the founder of Cactus Media, a bilingual news platform raising awareness about the interconnection of human health and environmental pollution. 

Since 2010, she’s worked for a number of Georgian print and online media organizations, while also contributing to international outlets. With a focus on investigating corruption connected to natural resource extraction and environmental pollution in Georgia, as well as Russian business interests in precious metal mining across the region, Tsira works to shed light on the lack of climate, environment, and health data in Post-Soviet countries, stressing the importance of improving data collection and evidence-based decision-making processes. 

Amongst other things, Tsira and I discussed the challenges facing climate journalists living under rising authoritarianism, the interconnectedness of climate change and the rest of our lives, and the identity crises facing post-Soviet countries like Georgia, as they try to establish who they are and what they stand for. 

Additional links:

Check out Tsira’s platform, Cactus Media

Read the article about gold mining producing golden pollution

Read about the Shovi landslide disaster

Katherine Dunn’s piece about the Georgian Foreign Agent Law

Institute for the Study of War’s article about the 2024 Georgian election

Tsira’s profile on the n-ost website

Tsira’s profile on the Journalismfund Europe website

This episode features a conversation with Alexei Ovchinnikov, Editor-in-Chief of the Ukraine War Environmental Consequences Work Group. It was recorded in person, in Tbilisi, Georgia, in August, 2024, at the n-ost conference for climate journalism. It is one of four episodes dedicated to issues complicating climate communication in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus region. 

Alexei is a Belarusian environmental activist, journalist, researcher, and member of Green Network, an environmental organization in exile. 

He was an author and co-editor of independent Belarusian environmental media outlet, Green Belarus, as well as an author and co-editor of Ukrainian regional environmental protection platform, Eco.Rayon.

In September 2021, he left Belarus for political reasons, first living in Ukraine and now in Georgia. At the beginning of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Alexei started to analyze and report on the environmental consequences of the conflict. 

Today, he continues his environmental activities in exile, organizing local environmental meetings and workshops, and advocating for international recognition of ecocide. 

Amongst other things, Alexei and I discussed climate propaganda, the need to perform due diligence when reporting on the environmental impacts of war, and the surprising solutions stories coming out of Ukraine.

Additional links:

Check out the Ukraine War Environmental Consequences Work Group website

Read about the Kahovka dam incident

Learn about the impacts of the war on forests

Alexei’s profile on the n-ost website

Visit the Razom We Stand website

Check out Ecoaction.ua

This episode features a conversation with Sam Narr, Founder and CEO of Kibbo Kift Agency, a specialist PR and performance marketing agency exclusively promoting climate solutions and social justice initiatives. 

Heavily influenced by his third-generation immigrant background, working-class roots, and an education in radical social movements and pop culture, Sam’s motivation to work in environmentalism stems from an ambition to rebalance society's social and racial inequities.

Over the last five years, Kibbo Kift Agency has worked with 60+ clients including climate activists, corporate pressure groups, innovative tech start-ups, responsible fashion brands, global climate organisations, and more.

Kibbo Kift's projects have included a national campaign with Greenpeace UK, a national campaign to pressure MPs to support the only proposed legislation that ensures a joined-up approach to tackling the dual climate and nature crises, as well as ongoing media management of advertising and PR pressure group Clean Creatives, and global press office management for the world's largest digital clock, The Climate Clock, which counts down the time left until humanity passes the 1.5C threshold.

Amongst other things, Sam and I discussed the rightwards political shift happening across the UK, Europe, and the United States, where this issue gets tangled up with climate, and what can be learned from the campaigns that brought us Brexit and Trump.

Additional links:

Visit the Kibbo Kift Agency website

Check out the Climate and Nature Bill campaign

Explore Britain Talks Climate from Climate Outreach

Ding dong, it’s The Climate Clock

Dig in to the Communicating Climate Change E-Learning Course on the Creatives for Climate Community Hub

See The Brexit Bus

Read about the Stop the Boats campaign

Reclaiming Englishness with Caroline Lucas

Communicating Climate Change Call-In Show #1

This episode features a conversation with Izzy Howden, Senior Campaign Manager at Make My Money Matter, an organization working to transform the financial system. It was recorded in August 2024.

Over the past 3 years, Izzy has worked across all of Make My Money Matter’s public campaign activity, including the viral films, The Hidden Relationship, featuring Kit Harington and Rose Leslie, and Oblivian, featuring Olivia Coleman, which have racked up hundreds of millions of views, generated massive media coverage, and picked up a slew of awards.

She’s also directly engaged the financial sector to drive climate action, following Make My Money Matter’s mission to move money from the destructive, harmful investments of the past, into those that help build a future we can be proud of.

Before joining Make My Money Matter, Izzy developed strategic, creative campaigns for clients such as the Global Project for Education, the World Economic Forum, Peace One Day, and Footprint Coalition. 

Amongst other things, Izzy and I discussed the task of making pensions and climate finance engaging for audiences, how working with celebrities can take things to the next level, and how embracing creativity, humour, and satire can give campaigns an edge.

Additional links:

Visit the Make My Money Matter website

Watch Oblivian with Olivia Coleman

Watch The Hidden Relationship with Kit Harington and Rose Leslie

Watch the “Saving Jane” deforestation animation

This time, instead of chatting to a special guest, listeners just like you are joining the conversation. It’s a Call-In Show!

Over the last couple of months, all kinds of voice messages have been submitted by listeners to act as a springboard for brainstorming, problem solving, and broader discussion around a range of climate communication challenges, observations, and questions. 

Through the course of this episode, we’ll dig into a number of them, exploring themes like framing, psychological distance, climate deadlines, and some fundamentals of climate communications, across formats ranging from social media posts to speeches, and more.

But we won’t just be pointing out flaws and failures. This is a show about solutions. So, I’ll be looking to a kaleidoscope of disciplines and perspectives, as well as the wisdom of previous Communicating Climate Change podcast guests, to find a path forward in each case.

If you want to leave a voice message of your own, whether to respond to a topic discussed in this episode or to raise a new one for consideration for the next call-in show, just head over to the Call-In Show page. It couldn’t be easier to get involved!

Guidance on submitting to the Call-In Show:

Step 1: Go to the Call-In Show page.

Step 2: Hit the “Start Recording” button.

Step 3: Describe your challenge, example, or observation.

Step 4: Hit the “Stop” button when you’re done.

Step 5: Enter your name and email if you want (it’s optional) and hit “Send”.

Step 6: Tune in to the Call-In Show to see if your message gets featured!

I can’t wait hear from you!

Additional links

Communicating Climate Change With Funmibi Ogunlesi

Communicating Climate Change With Josh Garrett

Communicating Climate Change With Kevin Green

Bohn and Rogge paper “The Framing of Green Innovations”

Tesla Cybertruck beats Porsche 911 while towing a 911

Adam Corner on how to reach people beyond the green bubble

Full transcript of Simon Stiell’s speech at Chatham House

My attempt at rewriting Simon Stiell’s speech

Here’s some recent research about doomerism and shareablity

Here’s the link to the Mike Hulme piece on deadline-ism

Link to the original Climate Crisis Advisory Group post on LinkedIn

This episode features a conversation with Kris De Meyer, Director of the UCL Climate Action Unit. It was recorded in July 2024.

Kris is a neuroscientist, a science communicator and a science-policy co-production expert, bringing insights from neuroscience and psychology to the domain of climate change. He specialises in how people become entrenched in their beliefs, how this leads to polarisation in society, and how to overcome these conditions. 

The Climate Action Unit works to change how scientists, policymakers, businesses, media, civil society organisations and citizens engage with each other about climate change. And Kris is responsible for the neuroscientific basis of the interventions that the unit designs and delivers. 

Kris is also a Senior Research Fellow in UCL’s Department of Earth Sciences, has co-produced an award-winning documentary, called Right Between Your Ears, exploring how people views become ingrained, and co-created The Justice Syndicate, a participatory play about how we disagree. 

Amongst other things, Kris and I discussed fear and agency, where the conventional wisdom gets things wrong, and why stories about actions taken in response to climate change offer the total package when it comes to stimulating meaningful responses from our audiences.

Additional links:

Visit the Climate Action Unit website

Watch Kris’ brilliant TEDx Talk

Transforming the stories we tell about climate change: from issue to action

Check out Elliot Aronson’s article Fear, Denial, and Sensible Action in the Face of Disasters

Explore the UN Climate Chief’s speech “2 years to save the world”

Read Mike Hulme’s article on “Deadline-ism”

This episode features a conversation with Natalia Vega-Tracy, founder of centralised communications hub, New Zero World, and multi-sector coalition, EPIC, the Earth Public Information Collaborative. It was recorded in July 2024.

Natalia is a leader in global advocacy and social impact, with more than 25 years of experience leading campaigns and content designed to influence culture and drive positive change in the world.

She’s been the driving force behind collaborations with international partners across all sectors, from progressive brands and corporations to humanitarian non-profits and both governmental and intergovernmental organizations, where her work has earned nominations and awards from many of the most renowned international festivals in the advertising world.

Natalia has been widely recognized for her work creating innovative strategies, campaigns, films and experiential events in support of the United Nations, and was named one of the “Top 10 most influential media and communications executives" for her work supporting the Sustainable Development Goals.

In 2022, she founded New Zero World to shift public opinion and promote behavioural change by building new climate narratives and positively reimagining our visions of the future. New Zero World’s flagship report entitled, “A New Era In Climate Communications” gathers world-leading research and insights from the best minds in science communications, creativity, and cultural influence. The resource is a must-read for anyone working in and around climate communication, with chapters dedicated to practically every facet of the craft.

In 2024, together with the Global Commons Alliance, New Zero World launched EPIC, the Earth Public Information Collaborative, with the vision to bring together businesses, media platforms, ad agencies, creators, philanthropy and, of course, science, to reposition climate change across every community on earth.

Acting as a campaign in itself, the process is designed to not only engage agencies, industry and media, but also the public. It’s described as a campaign for all of us, involving all of us – taking a whole earth approach.

Amongst other things, Natalia and I discussed the power of using creativity for good, the need to fill an imagination gap about the future we’re heading towards, and how the sausage is made when it comes to large, multi-stakeholder coalitions.

Additional links:

Check out whitepaper, A New Era in Climate Communications

Visit the New Zero World website

Explore the Earth Public Information Collaborative website

Howard Bloom’s book, Global Brain

Watch the trailer for the film, 2040

This episode features a conversation with Boaz Paldi, Chief Creative Officer at the United Nations Development Programme. It was recorded in February 2025.

In this role, Boaz oversees UNDP’s advocacy, campaigns, events, and activations. For example, back in 2021, he launched the now iconic #DontChooseExtinction campaign, featuring a dinosaur gatecrashing the UN General Assembly, highlighting research that revealed that for every dollar pledged to tackle the climate crisis, four dollars are spent on fossil fuel subsidies that keep that same crisis alive. Last year, Boaz delivered the award-winning #WeatherKids campaign, which used children to deliver weather reports from the future, spotlighting the catastrophic consequences of global inaction on climate change and its impact on the next generations.

Through these, and other, activations at the UN, Boaz continues to push the envelope on the kinds of communication we see when it comes to climate, more broadly, as well as shifting what’s expected, and see as acceptable, when it comes to the messaging coming out of the most significant organization on the planet.

Prior to joining UNDP, Boaz worked as a TV journalist for almost two decades, covering conflicts, natural disasters, and human-interest stories across Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Europe, first for the BBC, then for Reuters, where he worked as Executive Producer for TV News.

Amongst other things, Boaz and I discussed the essential components of great climate campaigns, what happens behind the scenes to bring groundbreaking activations to life, and how the element of surprise can help us break through the noise.

Additional links:

Watch the #Don’tChooseExtinction campaign film

Find out more about #WeatherKids

Watch Weather Kids on YouTube

Check out Activista Agency

See more from the Framestore Production House

Explore work from climate writer Casey Rand

Discover Anzu in-game advertising

See more work from The Artery

See Oli Frost annoy fossil fuel financiers

Check out the documentary film, The Game Changers

This episode features a conversation with film director, Joshua Oppenheimer. It was recorded in March 2025.

Joshua gained notoriety through his documentaries The Act of Killing and The Look of Silence, which, amongst their many accolades, gained him Academy Award and BAFTA nominations. 

In fact, back in 2012, it was his extraordinarily beautiful and bizarre film, The Act of Killing, which follows former Indonesian death-squad leaders in reenacting their mass-killings through cinematic set pieces and lavish musical numbers, that put Joshua on my radar. The Guardian called it “The most compelling thing you’ll ever see.” I tend to agree. 

His latest film, entitled The End, hit cinemas in the UK and Germany last week.

The End stars Tilda Swinton, Michael Shannon, and George MacKay, as a wealthy family living isolated lives in a luxurious bunker, two decades after an environmental catastrophe renders Earth's surface uninhabitable. But this isn’t your run-of-the-mill, seen-it-before disaster take, The End is a genre-bending tale that urges us to reconsider the illusions we hold about the fate of our planet and, perhaps crucially, our role in shaping that fate. 

Amongst other things, Joshua and I discussed The End, why we often find living in lies a more comforting situation than facing reality, and the need to challenge the silence and the self-deception that is all around us when it comes to climate.

Additional links:

The End is out now in Germany and the UK. Get tickets to cinemas near you here.

Find out where to stream The End in your location by going here.

Watch the trailer for The End.

Get a sense of Joshua’s inspiration from The Umbrellas of Cherbourg.

Check out the trailers for The Act of Killing and The Look of Silence.

Here’s the panel discussion I mentioned, discussing silence around fossil fuels in Norway.

Creatives for Climate is the largest and most diverse network of change-agents using creativity to drive climate action.

Read George Lakoff’s book, Don’t Think of An Elephant.

This episode features a conversation with writer, editor and strategic communications consultant, Chinelo Onwualu. It was recorded in March 2025.

Chinelo is co-founder of Omenana, a magazine dedicated to African speculative fiction, and is the former chief spokesperson for the African Speculative Fiction Society. She’s also one of the reviewers of entries for Grist’s Imagine 2200 climate fiction contest.

Her writing has been featured in several anthologies and magazines, including Uncanny magazine, Strange Horizons, The Kalahari Review, and Brittle Paper.

It has also earned her many merits including a nomination for the British Science Fiction Awards, as well as for the Nommo Awards for African Speculative Fiction, and also the Short Story Day Africa Award.

With a background in journalism, Chinelo previously worked as a reporter and online editor in Nigeria and the United States, including as a senior editor for Cassava Republic Press, one of the leading independent publishers in all of Africa.

In her consultancy work, Chinelo has spent more than a decade supporting multi-national non-profits across the world with their strategic communications, including WE Charity International, ActionAid Nigeria, The BBC World Trust, and the University of Sussex's Institute for Development Studies.

Amongst other things, Chinelo and I discussed the importance of stories in shaping our societies, how fiction can help us make changes in our real lives, and what Western storytellers might learn from those whose cultures have already faced apocalyptic scenarios.

Additional links:

Visit Chinelo’s website

Grist's Imagine 2200 climate fiction contest

Check out Omenana

Peruse Rosarium Publishing and Flame Tree Press

Explore Roy Okupe’s comics

Discover Nightmare magazine and Uncanny magazine

Read more about Chinese author Cixin Liu