Come and Take It: The Eminent Domain Podcast (Bobby Debelak)

Bobby interviews Nick Atwood, a trial lawyer with Ritchie Rock & Atwood in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Bobby and Nick discuss the procedural process for ED cases in Oklahoma, a protracted and unique six-year case that Nick recently tried against the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority, attorneys' fees issues under OK law, and how to work with clients.

Throughout, Bobby asks Nick detailed discovery, procedure, and trial strategy questions, including how to prepare clients for taking the stand, how to handle a landowner client whose valuation is higher than the appraiser, and negotiating with opposing counsel even when those efforts fail. 

The cross exam includes a personal view into Nick's first car and life in outer space. 

Links:

https://www.rrmalaw.com/team/nick-atwood

Justin Hodge joins for Episode 59 of the podcast to discuss a story of his best friend's dad showing up as a veniremen in a condemnation case, Justin's mentors, and a book someone gave Justin when his grandmother passed away (Imagine Heaven). 

Professors Jessica Asbridge and Emilio Longoria join host Bobby Debelak to discuss their favorite property law and eminent domain papers of the last year.  The scholarship covers the argument for at-will employment as a taking, originalist interpretations of the constitution, deed restrictions, the contract clause, and more.

Paper Links:

Michael L. Smith, Is Originalism Bulls**t? https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4749322

Maureen E. Brady, Covenants and the Contract Clause, Va. Envt'l L.J. (forthcoming 2025), https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4856354

Racabi, At Will as Taking, https://www.yalelawjournal.org/essay/at-will-as-taking 

Ken Stahl, The Power of State Legislatures to Invalidate Private Deed Restrictions: Is It an Unconstitutional Taking?, 50 PEPP. L. REV. 579 (2023), https://digitalcommons.pepperdine.edu/plr/vol50/iss3/4/

Asbridge, Fines, Forfeitures, and Federalism, Virginia L. Rev. (forthcoming 2025), https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4743053

Longoria, Hoardings, Villanova L. Rev, https://www.villanovalawreview.com/article/123450-hoardings 

Longoria, Properly Construing the Just Compensation Clause, https://bclawreview.bc.edu/articles/3088 

Professor Josh Blackman of the South Texas College of Law joins us for Episode 69 of the podcast to discuss the Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid case recently released by the U.S. Supreme Court.  Here is a link to the case:  https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-107_ihdj.pdf

Chris Clough, Managing Partner for Barron, Adler, Clough and Oddo, PLLC in Austin, Texas joins us to talk about an eminent domain case involving the Austin airport. The Special Commissioners awarded Chris’s client $90 million. We also talk about Texas condemnation procedure, as well as how he got into the eminent domain practice area.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Sophia Holley, partner at KMK Law in Cincinnati, joins us today to talk about right-to-take laws in her home jurisdictions of Ohio and Kentucky.  She also discusses the importance of diversity in law firms, the strengths women bring to the legal profession, and how to mentor new trial lawyers.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In this episode, Sydney Young joins to talk about her hometown of Paris, Texas, and the effect of an expansion of its main roadway, Loop 286. She also talks about how title companies work (she owns one!).

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In this episode, Jon Houghton with Pacific Legal Foundation joins to discuss the Penn Central test, why he wants to change it, and what he is doing about it.  We also discuss NY Jets football and the big Aaron Rodgers trade. 

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Clay Beard joins us to discuss three trial stories and the lessons he took away from each.  The stories will entertain, but there are also important practice pointers that can be learned.  

Clay also shares one of his favorite hunting stories.  Be sure to hear that one at the end.

In Episode 66 of the podcast,  my friend and law partner, Jody Sodd McSpadden, joins to discuss her wisdom for seeking excellence while being a very involved lawyer, mom, spouse, and community leader.  She shares some outstanding wisdom and I'm pleased she was willing to share it with the podcast audience.  Of particular interest to me was her discussion about differentiating between passion and anger when advocating for a client.  

In this episode, we visit with Tiffany Dowell Lashmet.  Tiffany has served as an Agricultural Law Specialist for Texas A&M AgriLife Extension Service since 2013.  Tiffany’s work focuses on legal issues impacting Texas landowners and agricultural producers including leases, water law, oil and gas law, pipeline easement negotiation, and landowner liability.  She travels the state speaking at various meetings and conferences on these issues and has published several law review articles, extension fact sheets, magazine articles, and newspaper articles on these topics.  She also authors the award-winning Texas Agriculture Law Blog, recognized as one of the Top 100 Legal Blogs in the nation by the American Bar Association in 2014.  Tiffany is licensed to practice law in Texas and New Mexico.  She grew up on her family’s farm and ranch in Northeastern New Mexico, between Tucumcari and Logan. 

More information on Tiffany can be found here:  https://amarillo.tamu.edu/facultystaff/tiffany-dowell-lashmet/

On January 24-25, 2019, I recorded several episodes with presenters and attendees of the 2019 ALI Eminent Domain and Land Valuation conference in Palm Springs, California.  In this episode, we have the final two interviews recorded at the conference with Mike Sullivan and Martyn Daniel, two relocation specialists.  

Mike is with Range West Consultants and can be found here:  https://www.rangewc.com/

Martyn can be found here:  http://eminentdomainandbusinessrelocationconsulting.com/

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

Christina Thoreson, SR-WA, MAI, CRE joins the show to talk about appraisals and the valuation process, and how to present this information to a jury. She shares examples of tips she uses when testifying.  We also talk about changes in the appraisal industry due to the pandemic.

Christina’s book recommendations: Necessary Endings and Integrity by Dr. Henry Cloud

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

On this special episode, we are joined by the leaders of three important national property rights organizations: Dana Berliner, Senior Vice President and Litigation Director for the Institute for Justice; James Burling, Vice President of Legal Affairs for Pacific Legal Foundation, and Leslie Fields, Executive Director of the Owners’ Counsel of America. We learn how each got their start in the field of eminent domain and property rights, the landmark cases that have shaped their careers, and the issues and cases that are on the horizon at each of their organizations.

Links from the Institute for Justice:

Student employment opportunities: https://ij.org/opportunities/students/

Lawyer employment opportunities: https://ij.org/opportunities/attorney-pathways-at-ij/

Eminent domain survival guide: https://ij.org/report/eminent-domain-abuse-survival-guide/

Links from Owners’ Counsel of America:

Proposed Property Owners’ Bill of Rights: https://www.ownerscounsel.com/state-by-state-laws/

Toby Prince Brigham OCA Scholarship: https://www.ownerscounsel.com/toby-prince-brigham-oca-scholarship/

Links from Pacific Legal Foundation:

Careers - https://pacificlegal.org/careers/

Student Opportunities - https://pacificlegal.org/law-school-programs/

Guest Recommandations

Reckoning in Creve Coeur, James Singer

The Road to Serfdom, Friedrich Hayek

The Guardian of Every Other Right, James Ely

Property and Freedom, Bernard Siegan

Property and Freedom, Richard Pipes

Regulatory Takings After Knick, David Callies

The Little Pink House

Battle for Brooklyn

Bound by Oath Podcast

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In this episode, I discuss a cross-examination that I wish I could do over.  I let my emotions get the best of me and was disrespectful to a witness during a trial.  It resulting in me apologizing to him and a lesson learned to not do that again.  I also discuss some recent experiences that have reminded me about the importance and impact of storytelling and themes at trial.  

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.  If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

In Episode 41 of the Eminent Domain Podcast,  we have the first round of interviews from the ALI CLE national Eminent Domain Conference in Nashville, Tennessee.  Joining the podcast are law students Benny Zhang, Andrew Parslow, Kelsey Abell, Kacie Couch, and Joe Melton.  It was a great pleasure to speak to each of them.  

I also discuss a recent case from the Texas Supreme Court - Copano Energy v. Stanley D. Bujnoch, Life Estate.

Professor Jessica Asbridge of Baylor Law joins the podcast to discuss her upcoming law review article addressing the private delegation of the eminent domain power.  We have an insightful conversation that concerns the law and policy around private companies, such as pipelines, that exercise the eminent domain power, why that exercise is often subject to scant regulation, and the effect of that lack of oversight.  Professor Asbridge also suggests language from, of all places, the Kelo decision that might be helpful in considering a private entity’s right to take property.

Professor Asbridge's article

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Jon Houghton of Pacific Legal Foundation joins the podcast today to talk about regulatory takings.  This is a complex area of the law, but Jon is a true expert and breaks it down into understandable pieces.  He discusses how practitioners can assess when a regulation has risen to the level of a taking.  He also discusses regulatory taking issues and cases that are current.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In Episode 48 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Josh Baker joins the podcast to discuss a story about a property viewing in an inverse condemnation case.  The story takes a funny turn when a swan begins to threaten the jury.

James Singer, a labor and employment attorney at the law firm of Schuchat, Cook & Werner in St. Louis, Missouri and winner of the Owners' Counsel of America's Crystal Eagle Award, joins the show today to tell the important and compelling story of Dr. H. Phillip Venable, who lost his home to a racially motivated condemnation action by the City of Creve Coeur, Missouri in the late 1950s. Mr. Singer’s extensive research and community engagement played a large role in efforts that eventually led to the City publicly acknowledging and memorializing its history. Dr. Venable’s story is that of an inspiring individual, as well as a cautionary tale of the potential abuses of public power.

The case discussed in the podcast: State v. Weinstein

Read Mr. Singer’s excellent article here.

Mr. Singer's Recommendations:

The Broken Heart of America by Walter Johnson

Episode 480 of 99% Invisible: "Broken Heart Park"

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

If you’re a landowner who has received a notice from a condemning authority, what should you do next? Dawson & Sodd law partner Jason Sodd, an eminent domain attorney for the last twenty years, joins the show today to walk through ten important questions to ask when looking to hire a lawyer with eminent domain expertise. These questions and their rationale can empower and educate property owners who face the often daunting process of eminent domain acquisition.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In this episode, Alan Lichtenstein joins to discuss one avenue for landowners facing eminent domain to potentially minimize the tax impact of takings: 1033 Exchanges.  The episode begins with a general discussion of the requirements of 1031 (or, voluntary) exchanges, which listeners may be more familiar with.  Alan then explains some of the additional flexibility and options that 1033 exchanges offer for involuntary sales of property, like eminent domain.  

At the end, Alan shares his thoughts on what a great Super Band would look like of his favorite musicians.

DISCLOSURE:

The information herein has been prepared for educational purposes only and does not constitute an offer to purchase or sell investments.

This material is not to be interpreted as tax or legal advice. Please speak with your own tax and legal advisors for advice/guidance regarding your particular situation.  DST 1031 properties are only available to accredited investors (typically defined as having a $1 million net worth excluding primary residence or $200,000 income individually/$300,000 jointly of the last two years and reasonably expects the same for the current year) and accredited entities. There are material risks associated with investing in private placements, DST properties and real estate securities including illiquidity, general market conditions, interest rate risks, financing risks, potentially adverse tax consequences, general economic risks, development risks, and potential loss of the entire investment principal.

Links:

Alan Lichtenstein Profile: https://www.1031dst.com/alan-n-lichtenstein/ 

Alan Lichtenstein Email: alichtenstein@fortittudeinvestments.com 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-n-lichtenstein-a77b926/ 

General Website: www.1031dst.com

Jeremy’s Book Recommendation: The American Covenant by Marshall Foster

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

"The Professor" Robert Thomas re-joins us in Episode 50 of the Eminent Domain Podcast.  We discuss whether COVID-19 related regulations are takings and how they will be analyzed under existing law.

In some jurisdictions, the loss of business goodwill is compensable in condemnation cases. Chartered Financial Analyst and Accredited Senior Appraiser Will Thomsen joins the show to discuss the factors that contribute to business goodwill, how he measures the impact of a taking on business goodwill, the evidence he relies on to support his valuations, and common challenges to appraising business goodwill in a condemnation case.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Judge Andrew Edison joins the podcast to discuss the longest land takings fight in American History--the Black Hills of South Dakota land dispute--which has now spanned more than a century.  An episode in legal history and includes lessons for lawyers in staying with the fight.

Links:

https://www.txs.uscourts.gov/page/judge-andrew-m-edison-biography 

Wiki write up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_the_Black_Hills 

For Episode 26 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, we discuss four eminent domain cases to watch in 2019. 

1.  Knick v. Township of Scott. An article from the Wall Street Journal about the recent re-argument in the case:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-hears-cases-involving-land-use-alcohol-permits-11547678921?shareToken=st6639c9e086044c66b109cb0a13b74ac9&ref=article_email_share

2.  The Border Wall (Soon to be?) Cases. Articles from Professor Gerald Dickson and Ilya Somin are here: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/424195-trumps-militarized-land-seizure-for-border-wall-is-more-complicated-than

and here:  https://reason.com/volokh/2019/01/07/eminent-domain-emergency-powers-and-trum

Rep. Amash's proposed bill:  https://amash.house.gov/sites/amash.house.gov/files/documents/Eminent%20Domain%20Just%20Compensation%20Act.pdf

3.  The Flooding and Wildfire Cases.

4.  Nexus Gas Transmission v. City of Green, Ohio (the circuit split about when a FERC regulated pipeline can take possession of property it is condemning) The 6th Circuit joined the 3rd and 4th Circuits in concluding that, notwithstanding a lack of quick take power in the Natural Gas Act, a trial court may by injunction grant a FERC regulated pipeline that meets the standards to exercise the eminent domain power, immediate possession of property to commence construction.  The 7th Circuit stands in contrast to the 3rd, 4th, and 6th.  The Nexus Gas opinion is here:  https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca6/18-3325/18-3325-2018-12-07.html

Thank you to Robert Thomas, one of the co-planning chairs of the 2019 ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Conference, for recording information about the upcoming on January 24-26 at the Marriott Renaissance Hotel in Palm Springs, California. 

https://www.ali-cle.org/course/Eminent-Domain-and-Land-Valuation-Litigation-CA007

For those in the DFW area, I am very excited and honored to be one of the presenters at the 2019 TEDx Conference in Flower Mound, Texas on February 7, 2019.  The conference theme is World Changers.  I will be speaking on Finding Your Second Wind - Resiliency in the Journey of Life.  If you wish to attend, a link to the event website is here:  https://tedxflowermound.com/

The overwhelming majority of eminent domain cases settle, and Stephen Clarke of the Waldo & Lyle law firm in Virginia joins the show today to share insights on negotiating and documenting settlement agreements effectively. We also talk about his most recent appearance on the game show Jeopardy!

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Ivy Cadle, shareholder of the Baker Donelson law firm in their Atlanta and Macon, GA offices, joins us to discuss condemnation clauses in commercial leases. Ivy emphasizes that the lease will dictate a lessee’s approach to the case, and we touch on some of the important factors in that approach, including notice provisions and division of settlements.

Check out Ivy’s excellent webinar on condemnation clauses: https://www.bakerdonelson.com/webinar-commercial-leases-and-takings-how-to-leverage-your-rights-in-eminent-domain-cases

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.  If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

In Episode 42 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Robert McNamara of the Institute for Justice joins.  We discuss the Carousel Farms v. Woodcrest Homes case out of Colorado that has been appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.  Also joining the interview is William & Mary law student, Delia Root, who discussed her experience at the ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Conference, her experience in Professor Thomas' class, and her paper on taking liability for government inaction.

Matt Hurt of Dawson & Sodd joins to share stories about picking juries.  One of the cases that Matt discusses is State v. Johnson.  The appellate decision can be found here: https://casetext.com/case/state-v-johnson-5435

As a civil engineer, Matt also shares some thoughts about engineering issues that arise in eminent domain cases.

Matt's bio can be found here: https://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/matt-hurt/

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.  If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Stephen Clarke of the Waldo & Lyle law firm in Virginia is not only an eminent domain expert but now is an official Jeopardy! contestant and winner. Stephen gives us a behind-the-scenes look at the qualification process, as well as what it was like to film and compete. We hope you enjoy this opportunity to celebrate a real-life win of a friend to our podcast community.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In this final and farewell episode of the podcast, we reflect on the many guests and therefore perspectives that we have had on the show, and the important issues we have discussed over the last several years. There is also a behind-the-scenes story from the early years of the podcast. Thank you to all the guests and listeners who have made this podcast possible.  It has been a great joy and pleasure.  Old episodes will remain accessible at www.eminentdomainpodcast.com.  Farewell.

Luke Ellis and Tyler Milton join the podcast to share stories and tips about trying pipeline condemnation cases.  We venture into tales about impromptu jokes, Dallas Cowboy football, and crying during voir dire.  It is a great episode!

Kevin Twining, a partner in Locke Lord, LLP’s Dallas office and co-chair of the firm’s public finance group, joins us to discuss financing for large infrastructure projects. Sometimes that means accessing the public markets, sometimes it means financing through private banks. Kevin gives us a look behind the curtain to see how public entities acquire the funds for the projects that eminent domain practitioners work on.

If you will be in Austin for the ALI-CLE Eminent Domain Conference, please join us for a karaoke night at The Highball (1120 S Lamar Blvd) on Thursday, February 2 from 8:00 – 11:00 pm.

Registration is open for CLE International’s Texas Eminent Domain Conference in Austin, TX at the Austin Country Club, April 13-14, 2023. Register here.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Shane Rayman of Rayman Harris LLP in Toronto, Ontario joins the show to discuss a recent case out of the Supreme Court of Canada, Annapolis Group, Inc. v. Halifax Regional Municipality. Shane served as counsel for the Canadian Home Builders’ Association, an intervenor in the case. The case deals with regulatory takings, and we discuss Canadian law around such takings. Shane makes a compelling case for why someone who is not impacted by a regulatory taking should care about someone else who is, and this leads to a discussion about Canada’s non-constitutional protections of property rights in contrast to the constitutional protections of the United States.

Text of the decision

Factum (written submission) of the Canadian Home Builders’ Association

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Dave Arnold, Ross Greene, Kristen Bennett, and Carrilin Hirsch are the hosts and personalities behind the Pendulum Land Podcast.  They join to discuss the view of condemnation from the condemnor side, some Texas culture, Virginia food, and what they would put on a billboard.

Daniel’s book recommendations:

Origins of the Fifth Amendment: The Right Against Self-Incrimination by Leonard Levy

Rise of the Warrior Cop, by Radley Balko

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Our guest today is Christian Torgrimson.  Christian is a founding partner in the firm of Pursley Friese & Torgrimson in Atlanta, Georgia and an excellent condemnation lawyer.  We have an interesting and informative conversation with Christian about the eminent domain process in Georgia and we also cover some great practice pointers about getting a witness prepared to testify effectively.  A link to Christian’s bio is here: http://pftlegal.com/ourteam/torgrimson/

In our opening statement, we discuss three cases where the U.S. Supreme Court recently denied certiorari.  They are:

Pacetta, LLC v. Town of Ponce Inlet  that was discussed in Episode 15 of the Podcast with Mark Miller of Pacific Legal Foundation.  A link to the show is here:  https://www.eminentdomainpodcast.com/podcast-episode-15-development-credits-permitting-and-ripeness-with-mark-miller-of-pacific-legal-foundation/

Martins Beach 1, LLC v. Surfrider Foundation that was discussed in Episode 18 of the Podcast with Robert Thomas.  A link to the show is here:  https://www.eminentdomainpodcast.com/podcast-episode-18-williamson-county-robert-thomas/

Dabbs, Jr. v. Anne Arundel County.  A link to that opinion is here:  https://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-appeals/1893571.html

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

Professor Ilya Somin of George Mason University and the Cato Institute discusses his work in drafting amicus papers in the Kelo case, working with Jane Jacobs, writing a book on Kelo (The Grasping Hand) a decade after the decision, and his current work on the costs of exclusionary zoning. Throughout, Bobby and Prof. Somin discuss the common ground that otherwise-differing philosophies find in property law.

Links:

https://www.law.gmu.edu/faculty/directory/fulltime/somin_ilya 

https://www.cato.org/people/ilya-somin

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/constitutional-case-against-exclusionary-zoning/678659/ 

https://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Hand-London-Limits-Eminent/dp/022642216X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Av65EcHKeo7CqGfLDs_9-g.tENW9VkASB1jBty2_iVzTu5b5-S5ECKGI_CBiubYZHA&qid=1724864661&sr=1-1 

Bob Grace, MAI, CRE joins us from the national Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Litigation Conference to discuss capitalization rates.  We discuss both what a cap rate is and, importantly, some thoughts on how to explain this nebulous concept to a jury. 

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Joining us to celebrate 100 episodes of The Eminent Domain Podcast is long-time friend of the podcast Robert Thomas, Senior Attorney at Pacific Legal Foundation, Joseph T. Waldo Visiting Chair of Property Rights at William & Mary Law School, and elected member of the American Law Institute. Robert lets us know which eminent domain cases and issues he is following and shares reflections on law practice and life design. We also get a preview of what’s to come at the 2023 ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Litigation Conference.

Register for the conference here.

Many thanks to all of you who download this show and share it with others. You are the reason we are celebrating 100 episodes!

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Adam Sanders of Baker Donelson joins to discuss cases involving governmental takings of privately-owned utilities.  Adam shares issues that arise in these cases, including how such entities are valued.  At the end of the interview, Adam shares his experience about selling Bitcoin way too early and his initial reluctance to entering the field of law.

Joe Wilkinson of The Avenue Research Group joins the podcast to talk about technology in marketing for eminent domain cases.  In addition to traditional mail marketing, Bobby and Joe talk about broader marketing strategy campaigns, geofencing, AI, and why marketing research should both reach clients and also inform lawyers about projects. 

At the end of the episode, Joe's interest in archeology becomes the basis for the cross examination.

Links:

Joe Wilkinson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-wilkinson-829406248/

https://avenueresearchgroup.com/

Contact:

info@avenueresearchgroup.com
P: (803) 509-5078

James Lang of the Pender & Coward law firm joins the podcast to talk about the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in Sackett v. EPA.  He also discusses the historical definitions used for the term “waters of the U.S.,” important in understanding the jurisdiction of the federal government to regulate land under or adjacent to waterways. 

Texas A&M Associate Professor Tiffany Dowell Lashmet writes on the EPA’s recently revised WOTUS definition here: https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/2023/09/04/epa-releases-revised-wotus-definition/

Additionally, Professor James Stern of William & Mary Law School joins to talk about the Brigham-Kanner Property Rights conference scheduled for October 26-27 at the campus of the William & Mary law school.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Personal injury attorney and trial consultant Elizabeth Larrick joins the show to share her wisdom on preparing witnesses for deposition. We talk about assessing the strengths and weaknesses of witnesses, using preparation time effectively, the tools and technology she finds useful, and encouraging hesitant clients. Elizabeth’s expertise is invaluable, and she shares an experience that illustrates our highest calling as trial lawyers – empowering our clients to tell their own stories.

Check out Elizabeth’s podcast, Trial Lawyer Prep.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Alan Ackerman joins the podcast to share the story of the case of County of Wayne v. Hathcock from the Michigan Supreme Court.  This is a right to take case.  Alan and I have a wide ranging discussion that includes discussions of federalism, the role of stare decisis, the interstate commerce clause, an influential discussion between Alan and Dana Berliner of the Institute for Justice, and Leave it to Beaver.  

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.  If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Want to better understand the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act?  Join us for this special joint episode where we team up with the Infrastructure Junkies podcast to interview Jeremy Young of Roetzel & Andress in Ohio.  Questions we discuss: what is considered infrastructure for purposes of the bill? How does money get allocated, prioritized, and appropriated? How can we learn more without reading all 1,039 pages?  

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Kady Valois of Pacific Legal Foundation joins to discuss the recent case of Behrens v. United States from the Federal Circuit.  This is a rails-to-trails case where the outcome hinged on the language of an old easement.  The issues in this case have applicability in many types of cases involving the acquisition of easement rights.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In Episode 45 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Nancie Marzulla joins to share a story about a case involving a taking at Dallas Love Field. I then share some thoughts about finding meaning when our work is disrupted.

Brad Kuhn of Nossaman, LLP in Orange County, California joins the podcast to talk about trying an eminent domain case to a jury and his thought process around voir dire, opening statements, and presentation of appraisal evidence.  There are some great nuggets of wisdom. 

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In today’s episode, we are joined by Scott Heiart and Michael Ash of Carlin, Ward, Ash & Heiart in Florham Park, New Jersey. Scott and Michael discuss the unique aspects of redevelopment law in the state of New Jersey, as well as how they teamed up from opposite sides of the aisle to represent property owners. We learn about current issues and projects in New Jersey and talk about the importance of coupling zealous advocacy with professionalism and courtesy.

Michael’s book recommendation: Eat a Peach by David Chang

Scott’s book recommendation: The Judge’s List by John Grisham

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Carolyn Elefant makes a return appearance for Episode 53 of the Eminent Domain Podcast.  The D.C. Circuit issued its ruling in Alleghany Defense Fund v. FERC.  The Alleghany Defense Fund case considered the question of whether FERC can play "four corners" with the administrative review process to effectively moot a challenge to FERC approval.  The National Law Review explained the decision as one that "could radically disrupt and fundamentally alter the way [FERC] handles challenges to its orders."

Carolyn explains the decision of the D.C. Circuit which holds, among other rulings, that the Natural Gas Act (NGA) does not authorize FERC to issue “tolling orders” solely to prevent the expiration of the 30-day statutory period to act on requests for rehearing, which under the NGA results in the request for rehearing being “deemed denied.”

Richard Marchitelli and Cory Savik join the podcast to talk about their work in a series of inverse condemnation cases arising in North Carolina when the State sought to restrict or prohibit development within corridors where they planned future projects.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Professor Shelley Ross Saxer joins the show to discuss the role that the damaging clauses found in more than half of state constitutions across the United States play in inverse condemnation claims related to natural disasters such as the recent Hawaii wildfires.

Professor Saxer’s book: Social Ecological Resilience and Sustainability

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

The Eminent Domain Podcast returns!  Clint Schumacher passes the torch (microphone) to a new host, Bobby Debelak. Clint introduces Bobby, they discuss their eminent domain experience, and plans for the show going forward. 

We discuss how the County selects appraisers, about one of his current projects trying to value flowage easements, self-driving cars, and valuing property with a value date from 75 years ago.

In today’s episode, Professor Julia Mahoney of the University of Virginia School of Law joins the podcast live from the ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Litigation conference in Scottsdale to talk about last year’s Supreme Court decision in Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid. We discuss how the case fits into the general direction of this Court’s decisions, and what may be on the horizon for property rights at the U.S. Supreme Court.

Listeners of this podcast are encouraged to check out the Infrastructure Junkies podcast with Dave Arnold and Kristen Bennett, as well as the Eminent Domain and Right of Way Club on Clubhouse with Patrick McCallister and Beth Smith, for more viewpoints and topics concerning condemnation law and proceedings.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Richard and Leah Rothstein join the podcast to discuss the history of government action that aided in the creation and enforcement of segregation in American Neighborhoods--and, importantly, what all citizens can do in their communities to undo those injustices. 

Mr. Richard Rothstein is a Distinguished Fellow of the Economic Policy Institute and a Senior Fellow (emeritus) at the Thurgood Marshall Institute of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. He is the author of The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America, which recovers a forgotten history of how federal, state, and local policy explicitly segregated metropolitan areas nationwide, creating racially homogenous neighborhoods in patterns that violate the Constitution and require remediation.  The book has almost 18,000 reviews and a 4.8 rating on Amazon. He is a graduate of Harvard University and previously served as the former national education columnist for The New York Times.

Ms. Leah Rothstein also works on public policy and community change, from the grassroots to the halls of government. She led the Alameda County and San Francisco probation departments’ research on reforming community corrections policy and practice to be focused on rehabilitation, not punishment. She has been a consultant to nonprofit housing developers, cities and counties, redevelopment agencies, and private firms on community development and affordable housing issues. Her policy work is informed by her years as a community organizer with PUEBLO and Californians for Justice, and as a labor organizer with the Union of Needletrades, Industrial, and Textile Employees (UNITE). 

Their new book, Just Action, discusses local and community initiatives that all citizens can take to begin remedying the wrongs of the past. 

Other Links:

Just Action on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Action-Challenge-Segregation-Enacted/dp/1324093242#customerReviews

Just Action Book page with links and resources: https://www.justactionbook.org/ 

Robert Thomas joins Bobby Debelak to discuss the most interesting legal developments from 2024, cases to watch next term, and previews the 2025 ALI-CLE conference to be held in San Diego at the end of January 2025.  At the end, a musically themed cross-examination includes Robert's dream set list of 70s bands.

Links:

https://pacificlegal.org/staff/robert-h-thomas/ 

https://www.ali-cle.org/course/Eminent-Domain-and-Land-Valuation-Litigation-2025-CG204 

In Episode 21 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, we have a great episode for you titled "Hospitality Condemnation from the Client Side." Our guest today is Ellison Riley.  Ellison is Director of Real Estate for CorePoint Lodging in Irving, Texas.  Both in her role with CorePoint and in her prior role with La Quinta, Ellison has overseen and managed a number of complex condemnation acquistions.  We have an interesting and informative conversation with Ellison about the eminent domain process through the eyes of the client.

Ellison also offers up some binge-watching TV suggestions:  Goliath (starring Billy Bob Thornton), Harry Bosch, Yellowstone, and Jack Ryan.  Check them out!

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

In Episode 36 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Robert Thomas and Robert "Bob" Grace join to discuss short term rentals.  Robert Thomas discusses the legal implications of short term rentals and the potential for takings when they are regulated.  Robert Grace discusses whether a short term rental could be a highest and best use. Robert Thomas also shares a movie recommendation and tells the story about how his mother was an eyewitness to history. 

In this episode, we interview a handful of guests--presenters, first timers, and repeat attendees from the 2025 ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Conference.

Note: Next Year's conference will be in Savannah, GA. 

Links:

ALI-CLE 2025 Conference Information: https://www.ali-cle.org/course/Eminent-Domain-and-Land-Valuation-Litigation-2025-CG204

Guest Chris Clough: https://www.barronadler.com/attorneys/christopher-clough/

Guest Angela Misch: https://www.gunster.com/people/angela-j-misch 

Guest Clint Schumacher: https://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/ 

Guest Elizabeth Sockwell: https://www.millermillercanby.com/attorney/elizabeth-r-sockwell/

Clint Harbour from the Texas Attorney General's Office joins us in Episode 33 of the Eminent Domain Podcast.  He discusses eminent domain from the point of view of the government lawyer in Texas.  Clint has great recommendations for trying cases on the condemnor side of the docket.  He also shares why he sometimes will wear basketball shorts under his suit at hearings.

Stephen Clarke joins the podcast to share a story about a client that fibbed about his life history and the reaction of clients to the cancellation of Atlantic Coast Pipeline.  He also introduces me to the boardgame "Settlers of Catan."  

Professor David Callies joined the podcast to discuss his new book Regulatory Takings After Knick. 

On January 24-25, 2019, I recorded several episodes with presenters and attendees of the 2019 ALI Eminent Domain and Land Valuation conference in Palm Springs, California.  In Episode 27 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, I play back interviews with U.S. Magistrate Judge Andrew Edison of Houston and eminent domain lawyer and blogger Stephen Clarke of Norfolk, Virginia.  

They are both great interviews.  Judge Edison shared information about one of the most interesting taking cases in U.S. history, the case of the government's taking of the original Zapruder film, the video of the assassination of President Kennedy filmed by Abraham Zapruder.  A New York Times article about the case is here:  https://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/04/us/zapruder-heirs-get-16-million-for-dallas-film.html

Judge Edison's bio can be found here:  https://www.txs.uscourts.gov/page/judge-andrew-m-edison-biography

Stephen Clarke's bio page can be found here:  https://waldoandlyle.com/stephen-j-clarke/

His twitter page can be found here:  https://twitter.com/steveclarkeva

Thank you to Robert Thomas and ALI for arranging space for us to conduct our interviews.

For those in the DFW area, I am very excited and honored to be one of the presenters at the 2019 TEDx Conference in Flower Mound, Texas on February 7, 2019.  The conference theme is World Changers.  I will be speaking on Finding Your Second Wind - Resiliency Along the Journey.  If you wish to attend, a link to the event website is here: https://tedxflowermound.com/

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

In this episode, we consider the question of whether a pipeline has the right to take if it is transporting product that is not used within the state it is crossing.  

Richard Rothfelder joins for Episode 58 of the podcast to discuss how the law treats and values outdoor advertising signs (or billboards) in eminent domain cases.  Richard is one of the country's experts in this field and it was a pleasure to get to visit with him.  

Thor Hearne joins Episode 49 of the Eminent Domain Podcast as part of the "War Stories" series.  Thor discusses various cases from his career, including cases involving railroad and pipeline easements and the St. Bernard Parish flooding case.  

Episode 67 of the podcast focuses on how our juries might view institutions and experts differently now than they did before the Covid-19 pandemic.  Do we have to present experts differently than we did before?  

This episode also discusses corridor valuation theory and a case pending in Texas that may change the law in this area called Hvalinka v. HSC Pipeline Partnership, LLC, 605 S.W.3d 819 (Tex.App.-Houston[1st Dist.] 2020, pet. pending).

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.  If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Mike Schopmeyer and Michael DiRienzo of Kahn, Dees, Donovan & Kahn, LLP in Evansville, Indiana join the show to talk about a case that they recently completed and took through appeal called Guzzo v. Town of St. John. It is an interpretation of Indiana’s post-Kelo legislation and also involves issues of highest and best use. Since the recording of this podcast, the Indiana Supreme Court denied further review in this case, making the decision of the Court of Appeals that we discussed on the podcast the final law in the case.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Anthony Alderman, MRICS, SR/WA, CRE, Senior Managing Director within the Valuation & Advisory service line at Cushman & Wakefield, joins the show to talk about depictions of eminent domain in popular culture – often a juror’s only prior exposure to condemnation law. We also discuss what makes appraising for eminent domain acquisitions different from other appraisal projects as well as current issues of interest in the appraisal field.

Anthony’s Blog Post: “The Netflix Series Ozark and Eminent Domain”

Anthony on LinkedIn

Anthony recommends our friends at the Infrastructure Junkies podcast.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In Episode 44 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, we are joined by Philip Hundl from Wharton, Texas and Tony DellaPelle from Morristown, New Jersey.  Both are experienced practitioners and give great insight in their interviews.  Additionally, I share some thoughts on practicing law while "sheltered in place" as I enter week 3 of working remotely.  

David Koller of Cushman & Wakefield’s Chicago office joins the show to discuss his specialization of machinery and equipment valuation. We talk about the methodology involved, some unique examples of his work, how equipment appraisers collaborate with other professionals in the valuation process, and David’s advice to property owners with a need for machinery and equipment valuation.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Tom Forestier of Winstead PC joins the show to talk about a career of litigating high profile eminent domain cases, including his work in recent years with the Austin Airport taking case and the expansion of the Alamo Plaza. Bobby and Tom discuss the growing impact of media, from the advent of social media, impacts on grassroots efforts, and handling traditional media coverage of significant cases.

Links:

https://www.winstead.com/People/Tom-Forestier 

Episode 110: Chris Clough on the Austin Airport Taking https://www.eminentdomainpodcast.com/110-airport-taking/ 

Chad Griffiths brings a deep knowledge of the industrial real estate market that he shares in regular podcast and YouTube releases.  In this episode, we discuss the current state of the industrial market, the relationship between cap rates and interest rates, the growing prevalence of industrial developments in visible locations, and how the drive for “last mile fulfillment” may not mean big box takeovers.  Chad looks into the crystal ball about how the industrial market will fare in our current economy. 

Chad’s podcast, The Industrial Real Estate Podcast

Chad's YouTube channel, The Industrial Real Estate Show

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In Episode 35 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Sam Schwartz aka Gridlock Sam joins to discuss self-driving cars and their impact on future infrastructure.  

Mr. Schwartz's books include No One at the Wheel:  Driverless Cars and the Road of the Future and Street Smart - The Rise of Cities and the Fall of Cars.

In Episode 37 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, I share reflections from a day at the court house after being summoned for jury duty.  Some takeaways:

1.  Build rapport with the venire panel by being the guide.
2. Build rapport by acknowledging the situation of the venire panel
3. Have positive energy
4. Get the jury talking
5. Begin to personalize your client
6. Put a high priority on the voir dire - what you need to find out and how you want to get the information

Eminent domain attorney Jay Small of Mateer Harbert in Orlando joins the podcast to discuss the Supreme Court case Alabama Association of Realtors vs. Department of Health and Human Services. We discuss whether this case opened the door to challenging the moratorium as a compensable taking, and Jay brings a prescient analysis of the opinion. We also discuss the Court’s citation of Loretto, the shift of economic risk to landlords, as well as what Jay notes is a curious omission of Yee v. City of Escondido.

SCOTUS Opinion: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/21a23_ap6c.pdf

Jay’s blog post on the opinion: https://mateerharbert.com/did-the-supreme-court-greenlight-takings-claims-after-striking-the-eviction-moratorium/

Jay’s Book Recommendations:
The Mystery of Capital – Hernando de Soto
The Color of Law - Richard Rothstein
Land – Simon Winchester
Moby Dick – Herman Melville
Blood Meridian – Cormac McCarthy
Heart of Darkness – Joseph Conrad

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.  If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Robert Thomas joins for Episode 60 of the podcast to discuss the changes to this year's ALI-CLE Eminent Domain Conference.  As Robert will explain, this year's conference will be virtual.  Sign up for the conference here: https://www.ali-cle.org/course/Eminent-Domain-Land-Valuation-Litigation-2021-VCCF0128

In the closing argument, I discuss choosing my One Word for 2021.  Information about the One Word book by Jon Gordon, Jimmy Page, and Dan Britton is here:  https://www.amazon.com/Word-That-Will-Change-Expanded/dp/1118809424

In Episode 46 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Steve Silva joins to share a "war story" about his favorite settlement that displayed some out of the box thinking.  

Robert Thomas of Pacific Legal Foundation joins us for a review of three impactful cases that eminent domain practitioners should watch as they work their way through the courts. We also get a preview of the 2024 ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Litigation Conference that will be held in New Orleans this coming February.

Click here for information and registration for the ALI-CLE conference.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In Episode 43 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, Dana Berliner, Litigation Director for the the Institute for Justice joins.  We discuss interesting stories from her career including her involvement of Kelo v. City of New London and a story where the condemnor backed down.  

Bob Belden of the Institute for Justice joins the show to discuss a matter arising out of Onondaga County, New York, where homeowners in the Burnet Road community are fighting for their property against a taking for a prospective transaction with a manufacturing facility. Bob tells us about the Burnet Road community, the similarities of this situation to Kelo v. City of New London, and the current legal environment on economic development takings in the State of New York.

More about the matter on the Institute for Justice Website: https://ij.org/press-release/new-york-residents-fight-to-defend-their-homes/

Bob’s podcast recommendations: Bound by Oath and The Rest is History

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Daniel Garodnick joins to discuss the incredible true story of how one middle class community defeated the largest residential real estate deal in American history. Lifetime New York City resident and former City Councilman Dan Garodnick recounts how his neighbors stood up to mammoth real estate interests and successfully fought to save their homes, delivering New York City's biggest-ever affordable housing preservation win.  His story has been recorded in the recently released book Saving Stuyvesant Town: How One Community Defeated the Worst Real Estate Deal in History.  

Professor Emilio Longoria of St. Mary’s University School of Law joins the show to discuss his recent article, Lech’s Mess with the Tenth Circuit: Why Governmental Entities Are Not Exempt from Paying Just Compensation When They Destroy Property Pursuant to Their Police Powers. Professor Longoria gives an overview of the facts of Lech v. Jackson as well as his criticism of the court’s opinion. He also explains where he believes the court went wrong in its application of three important Supreme Court cases cited in the opinion.

Professor Longoria’s book recommendation: Richard Rogers – Cities for Small Countries

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Matthew Ackerman of the Ackerman & Ackerman law firm in Michigan joins the show to discuss what he has called “the pitfalls of objectively measured just compensation” – in other words, the ways in which fair market value may not make a property owner whole in the wake of a taking. Matthew also dives into potential reforms to address the intangible losses common in takings. Read more about this issue in his blog post here.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Emilio Longoria returns to the podcast to make the argument for why condemning authorities should pay landowners' attorneys fees in eminent domain cases.  Bobby plays Devil's Advocate and presents the arguments for the existing default rules.  After discussing the legal background arguments, they examine a sample of different state structures as examples of how differently states handle attorneys' fees.  Emilio offers some practice tips on structuring engagement letters for landowners' counsel.  

Link:

https://ackerman-ackerman.com/why-condemnors-should-pay-property-owners-attorney-fees-in-eminent-domain-cases-and-a-50-state-survey-on-the-issue/

In Episode 22 of the Eminent Domain Podcast, we have a great episode for you titled "Condemnation Issues in Colorado." Our guest is Sarah Kellner.  Sarah is a partner with the Faegre Baker Daniels law firm resident in their Denver office.  We have an interesting and informative conversation with Sarah about the eminent domain process in Colorado, the inseparability doctrine, some constitutional amendments that were proposed in Colorado, and Sarah's favorite holiday, Halloween.

Among other cases that we discuss regarding the inseparability doctrine, we discuss the 1924 U.S. Supreme Court case of Campbell v. United States.  https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/266/368/

Sarah's Halloween costume - isn't it great??

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me.  I’m on Twitter @J_Clint.

My webpage bio is here: http://www.dawsonsodd.com/attorneys/clint-schumacher/

Deborah La Fetra of the Pacific Legal Foundation joins us to talk about the case of Financial Oversight and Management Board for Puerto Rico v. Cooperativa de Ahorro y Credito Abraham Rosa, a unique case where the boundaries of just compensation and governmental restructuring collide.  Deborah and PLF served as counsel for several of the unpaid property owners.

Additionally, Professor James Stern of William & Mary Law School joins to talk about the Brigham-Kanner Property Rights Conference scheduled for October 26-27 at the campus of the William & Mary Law School. 

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

In Episode 62 of the podcast,  Anthony DellaPelle of McKirdy Riskin Olson & DellaPelle in Morristown, NJ joins to discuss the current status of Covid-related takings litigation.  Tony's recent article on the subject published by the ABA can be found here: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/litigation/committees/real-estate-condemnation-trust/articles/2021/is-covid-19-still-a-public-health-emergency/

Some cases discussed during the podcast:

Armstrong v. U.S.

Home Building & Loan Ass'n v. Blaisdell

Wisconsin Legislature v. Palm

Elkhorn Baptist v. Brown

County of Butler v. Wolf

South Bay Penecostal v. Newsom

Calvary Chapel v. Sisolak

Roman Catholic Diocese v. Cuomo

Many thanks to our twelve past podcast guests who joined to share some special memories and traditions from holidays in the past, or events they are looking forward to this year.  This was some great content, and I hope it will spur your own sweet memories, or maybe give you ideas for time with friends or family this year.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

The person who is unafraid to show their authentic self is a powerful advocate. Authenticity gives us greater empathy for our clients, for the jury, even for opposing witnesses. Today’s episode is about identifying our core values and understanding our authentic self – important processes for excelling in all areas of life, including the honorable task of speaking for our clients.

NOSCE TE IPSUM: Being Authentic with the Trier of Fact. This is the paper prepared and presented by Christian Torgrimson and Clint Schumacher at the 2023 ALI-CLE Eminent Domain Land Valuation and Litigation Conference.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on Twitter @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Robert Thomas of inversecondemantion.com and the Pacific Legal Foundation returns for Episode 68 of the podcast to discuss current cases to know.  

Robert McNamara of the Institute for Justice joins to talk about his oral argument to the Supreme Court of the United States in Devillier v. Texas.  Robert discusses how he prepared for argument, what was at stake for his client, and what it means for eminent domain practitioners more generally.  

In the cross exam, Robert shares how much coffee he drinks, and what minor superpower he'd like to have.

Links:

Devillier Opinion: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-913_3204.pdf

The Institute for Justice: https://ij.org/ 

Robert McNamara Profile: https://ij.org/staff/robert-mcnamara/ 

Devillier Oral Argument (with transcript and speaker highlights): https://youtu.be/OqpVdv_KkjE?si=2b0paALhLis_exLV 

Investigative journalists Brandi Kellam and Louis Hansen have uncovered the story of the Shoe Lane community in Newport News, Virginia, a middle-class black neighborhood that has been largely displaced and thwarted in its plans for growth by the establishment and expansion of a local university. Louis and Brandi’s work underlines the true impacts of community displacement in the wake of eminent domain, and the groups who disproportionately suffer those impacts.

Find their work here:

https://vcij.org/stories/how-virginia-college-expanded-by-uprooting-black-neighborhood

https://www.propublica.org/series/uprooted

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Anthony DellaPelle returns to the show, this time to discuss his recent tenure as the global chair for the Counselors of Real Estate.  Anthony explains what separates CRE from other real estate organizations, how he became involved, why he accepted the invitation to join its leadership, and the various activities in the organization that he has been involved with.  At the end, he highlights CRE's "Top 10" issues publication for the year and how a better understanding of broader real estate issues inform his legal practice. 

Show Links:

A. DellaPelle Law Firm Bio: https://www.mrod.law/team/anthony-f-della-pelle-cre/ 

A. DellaPelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonydellapelle/ 

Counselors of Real Estate Main Page: https://cre.org/ 

CRE Application Process: https://cre.org/become-a-member/application-process/ 

CRE Real Estate Issues Publication (articles): https://cre.org/real-estate-issues/ 

CRE Top 10 Issues Facing Real Estate, 2024-25: https://cre.org/top-ten-issues/2024-25-top-ten-issues-affecting-real-estate/