Business of Sport (Charlie & Harry Stebbings)

Today, we bring you a guest who's sending ripples through the sporting and political landscape. Aron D’Souza is the President of the Enhanced Games, the first pro-choice and pro-science alternative to the Olympics. A lawyer by trade, Aron led Peter Thiel’s infamous litigation against Gawker Media involving wrestler Hulk Hogan, a relationship that has led to the PayPal founder becoming one of the Enhanced Games major backers.

Supported by some of the world’s top venture capitalists, the Enhanced Games describe themselves as the Olympics of the future. The major difference? Athletes are allowed to take performance enhancing drugs.

Now, the ethos of the Games is simple. Provide an environment that allows science in sport to flourish, and pay the athletes fairly in the process. Critique of the Games has focused on the risk to athletes' health and the undermining of integrity and fairness in sporting competition. 

In today’s show, we discuss:

The use of performance enhancers:

• Performance enhancing drugs are banned in most sport. While the list of banned substances varies, what are the fundamentals that make this approach better than the current system?
• ‘I think doping should be erased from out language’. What are the issues with terminology used around scientific enhancements and the perceptions they form?
• How prevalent is the use of banned substances in sport today? Is the fact they are being used in the shadows one of the key reasons this proposition can attract ‘clean’ athletes?
• The health issue: this is the primary stick with which to beat this event. How dangerous is a regulated Games compared to what we see in Athletics today. Is it a free for all or will there still be some boundaries athletes have to adhere to?
• How have athletes reacted to this proposition?

Improving athlete pay:

• In the current Olympic/athletics system, athlete remuneration does not allow for many athletes to make a living off their participation.
• Creating a model that pays the athletes in accordance with the value of their talent is a major commitment from the Enhanced Games. Paying athletes ensures they can focus their full time on their sporting career and therefore perform better in competition. 
• Offering financial rewards for athletes accomplishing extraordinary things: James Magnussen coming out of retirement to attempt to break the 50m freestyle record for a prize of $1m.
• How backing from leading venture capitalists including Christian Angermayer and PayPal founder Peter Thiel facilitates an ambitious financial approach.
• This is a move we have seen in many sports over recent years, but how does the addition of performance enhancers + big payouts appeal to athletes?

Changes in wider sport:

• This is a privately funded sports event. What does that mean? How does a venture backed sports competition create fandom?
• The current sports governance landscape and the issues with legacy leadership structures in industries that require innovative and transformative development.
• What other sports would benefit most from the ‘Enhanced approach’? 
• How this event will deliver batter fan experiences, employ the latest technology, and leverage data to continually improve it’s proposition.
• Enhancements extend careers. Athletes will be able to compete at the highest level for longer periods of time!

If you want to see more for Business of Sport, follow us across all our platforms. https://linktr.ee/bizofsport

This week we are delighted to welcome Paul Tisdale to the show. A former Premier League player, Paul went on to manage over 600 games in the football league for the likes of Exeter City, Bristol Rovers, MK Dons, and Stevenage. His time at Exeter delivered a complete transformation of the club, taking them from the National League to League One via back to back promotions. He cultivated an elite pool of talent that included Ollie Watkins and Ethan Ampadu. He was labelled the most fashionable man in football.

The approach to management is simple but so different to what you’d expect. But there is much more to the man than his achievements on the touchline. He has transformed his career to work alongside multi-club ownership models on a variety of projects, as well as venturing into the world of the sporting director, something we have been keen to dive into for a long time on this show. 

The skills acquired in football as both a player and a manager and transferable in many ways. This is an education in how to build a profile across multiple areas of sport and beyond, with an excellent dose of how to be a top manager! We’re delighted to welcome Paul Tisdale to Business of Sport. 

On today’s show we discuss:

The Business of Lower League Football:

• Big budgets are a thing on the elite; how do you operate when you an towards the lower end of football in the UK and strike the balance between sustainability and ambition?
• The challenges of running Exeter City as a cashflow business, meaning it could not lose money.
• Player sales are a key revenue driver for clubs. How did selling Matt Grimes and Ollie Watkins benefit the club financially and what did the structure of those deals look like?
• What are the budgets of a club in League One or Two?
• Scrapping the scouting department was one of the major decision Paul made at Exeter. Why did he decide to cut this key part of a football club?
• “It’s survival of the adaptable, not the fittest”. What does Paul mean by this?

Creating an Identity:

• Building a character than can deliver every week on a touchline was one way Paul was able to deliver success. Why did he do this?
• The power of fashion: dubbed the most fashionable man in football, what was the purpose of looking good in the dugout.
• Finding your place in sport is not something that comes naturally and being able to exist in an environment that has little forgiveness can be difficult for both players and managers.
• The challenge of moving teams is not something talked about enough. In football you are expected to move and slot straight in. It’s not that easy!

Transferable Skills:

• There are few educations as powerful as the one you’ll get in football, but how can it be applied away from the pitch?
• The power of data - this is something utilised by every club in today’s game, but are clubs doing it right? 
• Staying relevant in football is not easy. What do you need to do to ensure there are roles available that may be unlike ones available previously? 
• What next? Would Paul get back into management if he was given the opportunity? 

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This week, we are delighted to welcome Nico Rosberg to the show. Nico is a Formula One legend. He competed in 206 Grand Prix’s, with 23 wins, 30 pole’s, 57 podiums, and over 1500 championship points. Nico’s World Championship win when driving alongside childhood friend Lewis Hamilton for Mercedes is one of the most iconic in the history of the sport, and saw him follow in the footsteps of his father Keke, who won the championship in 1982. It was in the days after this win that Nico announced his shock retirement, putting new meaning into finishing on the highest of highs. But that wasn’t the end. A serial angel investor and entrepreneur, Nico last week announced Rosberg Ventures, his new $75m Fund of Funds, a vehicle aimed at investing in leading funds to foster global startup innovation.

Whether we’re talking about sport or business, this conversation is the perfect demonstration of how a career at the top end of one industry can translate into significant value in another. As you will hear, the margins that separate success and failure in this sport are impossibly small. Dedication and sacrifice are non-negotiables if you want to achieve. This is the same in business.

He brings a truly unique perspective to the role of an athlete. This is sport, investment, leadership, culture, winning mentality. There is something in this for everyone.

In today’s show we discuss:

The world of F1:

• Growing up with a World Champion. How the success of his father Keke inspired a young Nico to become a Formula 1 World Champion.
• What does it take to make it in F1? The karting scene for young drivers is very intense, and requires a lot of time away from friends, family and school.
• Funding his own career in racing and the cost of participation to reach the top of the sport.
• What happened the first time Nico drove an F1 car?
• How important is the car to the success of a driver? What is it like to be driving for the team that is dominating a season and operating in an environment of invincibility? 
• The challenge of creating equal opportunity in a team of two world class drivers. At the end of the day there will always be one who gets preferential treatment.
• Why did Nico retire immediately after winning the 2016 championship?

Mentality is key:

• How to master the 1%’s. From constructing a fitness regime to optimally manage the best physique, to the weight of paint on a hemet, what do drivers do to get an edge?
• Failure is really important. Missing out on pole, podiums, race wins that spurs you on to greater success and achievement.
• The people around you can help create the most prepared mind, and sport is now embracing the presence of individuals specifically targeted with developing the ultimate mindset to live with pressure. 
• What happens when you achieve your ultimate dream? Learning how to enjoy the highs and manage the lows to build the strongest mentality required. 
• How is the mentality of the athlete similar to the mentality of the businessperson, and what can be learnt from each other?

Business success born from sport:

• There are so many traits that translate from professional sport into the world of business. What are the key contributions of an athlete in an outside industry?
• How has Nico built a career away from the race track in investment, entrepreneurship, and wider business? What are things that inspire him?
• The launch of Rosberg Ventures $75m fund of funds and the ambitions Nico has for building bridges between corporate Europe and leading global startups. 
• Learning a new language; the work required to get into a new industry is not to be taken lightly. What was Nico’s transition like from athlete to businessman? 

Today’s show is brought to you by SeatUnique, the ultimate destination for elevating live events into unforgettable experiences. Visit seatunique.com to discover some of the incredible packages they have to offer across some of the biggest sport, media and entertainment events.

A plant-based athlete and investor, Chris Smalling is dedicated to creating a more sustainable future for the planet. Chris currently plays for Serie A giants AS Roma, moving to Italy in 2020 from Manchester United, having played over 200 games for the club, and winning 31 caps for England in the process.

Chris set up ForGood in 2020 to play a key role in accelerating the ecosystem that actively invests and champions the next generation of responsible businesses, with the ambition to drive a movement of doing things for good. Chris is also a Patron of Football Beyond Borders, a UK-based nonprofit that uses the power of football to change the lives of young people, and has recently co-founded athlete-led venture vehicle, The Players Fund.

In today’s episode, we discuss:

His pathway to football:

• How finishing school and a prospective place at university gave Chris a decision to make when it came to turning professional.
• How can the industry provide more opportunities for academy players to finish their education and still play top level football?
• What did having options do for Chris’ mindset when it came to handling pressure and potential failure in football?
• How does Chris use his experience in dressing rooms and high-performance environments to benefit his business ventures?

The key influences in Chris’ career:

• From agents to family to financial advisors; the key team who support players and the importance of getting the right people around you.
• What it was like to have Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger trying to sign Chris and what influenced his decision to join Manchester United.
• Playing with your idols and the nerves of walking into a dressing room with Ferdinand, Vidic, Giggs, and Scholes.
• The challenges with balancing family and intensive travel commitments, and the speed at which your life can be uprooted to another city or country.
• How being welcomed to Roma and a love of the city and people made the transition so enjoyable.

Business and Sport:

• What does Chris do away from the pitch and what are the motivations behind his business ambitions?
• Are business opportunities available to all athletes or do you have to go out and find them? 
• The Players Fund: a joint venture between Chris and a number of other sports stars, what is the purpose of creating a vehicle driven by athletes?
• Whose responsibility is it to provide an environment where footballers in particular feel prepared and able to get into business and trust the environment?
• A life after football: what to do when your identity is wrapped up in your profession and how to put a plan in place for the ‘next step’.

Today we welcome one of football’s most iconic CEOs. When Peter Kenyon moved from Manchester United to Chelsea in 2003 after Roman Abramovich bought the club, it was the first time a move in the boardroom was treated like a player transfer. Sir Alex Ferguson was said to be ‘intensely disappointed’, not least because he recognised the role Peter played in the success of United at the time. Having built Man Utd into both a performance and commercial powerhouse, Peter took on the task of executing Abramovich’s vision; to build the best club in Europe.

From working with Ferguson to hiring Mourinho, from creating culture to delivering trophies, we get an answer to the question we have asked for a long time: How to build success off the pitch AND win on it?

It doesn’t get much bigger than this. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Manchester United: Building a Global Brand

• Sir Alex Ferguson was key to the success of Manchester United on and off the pitch; why you couldn’t detach winning from the commercial achievements of the club.
• “Why are some businesses successful and others not? It’s down to people”. The importance of building the best team for the job at hand.
• It wasn’t necessarily about signing the best players; it was about signing the personalities that fit the culture.
• Why United were able to capitalise on their success from a business standpoint where Liverpool didn’t.
• The story behind Rupert Murdoch’s failed acquisition of the club in 1998.

The Move to Chelsea:

• Why did Peter leave the biggest club in the country to take over at newly owned Chelsea in 2003?
• “Abramovich was an unbelievable owner”. What made Chelsea’s owner so great for his 20 years of stewardship and what makes the best owners in football?
• The story (and theory) behind firing Claudio Ranieri and signing Jose Mourinho, and why it just may be the best money Chelsea spent.
• Conversations with Abramovich before he bought the club included a very clear set of ambitions and a definition of what success looks like; what were the targets?
• What was the hardest deal to get done while Peter was in charge of Chelsea?

The Industry Today:

• “The downfall of United was the success of United”. Why it is so important to have a succession plan in sport.
• Are we seeing a break in the relationship of a necessity to win to drive strong commercial performance? 
• It may pain Peter to admit it, but why does he think Liverpool have done an exceptional job in recent years where others have struggled?
• In a nod to his current board seat at Williams F1, why the Williams comeback will be the greatest in sporting history!

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Robbie Douek is CEO of Blast, one of the leading tournament providers in the ever present esports industry. I’m really excited to bring you this show. We have had more requests for an esports episode than any other over the past few months, and this industry is the epitome of modern entertainment meets traditional fandom. 

Blast hosts events in some of the most popular games, like Counter-Strike and Dota, bringing incredible live production to fans all over the world. 

The gaming industry is now worth over $200bn, and that number will only get bigger. This conversation focuses on what is driving this development, how it learns from traditional sport, but also importantly, what makes it different, and how the traditional industries of sport, music, entertainment can benefit from the reach and success of gaming today.

This week, we discuss:

Esports vs Gaming

• Gaming is the entire ecosystem; esports is the competitive end of the industry. What is the difference?
• Categorising esports: does it matter whether we think of esports as a sport or alternative entertainment?
• What do games publishers use the esports industry to achieve? How do companies like Blast drive value for them to promote their games and generate fandom?
• The esports industry is a long way off being the 'Super Bowl', but this is what it should aspire to be and seek to acheive. 

Crossover industries

• Gaming and esports have driven huge engagement with some of the most valuable demographics to traditional brands, sports rightsholders, movie studios etc
• The traditional entertainment industry can recognise real value from working with the gaming industry. What is being done to realise this?
• How esports tournaments are the most incredible showcases of proper fandom similar to what you’d expect in a sports stadium.
• Blast x Alpine F1 - an example of how you drive value for businesses looking to reach new audiences.

Development of the industry 

• Esports as a bubble was a popular phrase for those not confident in the longevity of the industry. Is this fair?
• Covid was great for eyeballs but bad for brand development in the industry. The successes are built on experiential opportunity.
• The changing investment landscape: how we are no longer likely to see huge sums spent on franchise slots, but does that mean an end to esports investment?

This week, we are delighted to welcome Frank Smith. Frank first worked within Matchroom as a 14-year-old on work experience, and started full time in September 2008 after he left school.

Having worked across many of the sports that Matchroom promote, Frank joined the Boxing department full-time in 2011 and worked his way through the ranks to assume the post of CEO in April 2018. Frank was appointed to the main board of the group’s parent company, Matchroom Sport, in December 2018.

In today’s episode, we discuss:

From internship to CEO:

• How chasing down Eddie Hearn’s car led to a job at Matchroom.
• As CEO of the boxing department, what are Frank’s key roles in the business and how does it complement Eddie’s work?
• The value of working in a family run business with a culture that encourages you to push yourself, try new things, and not worry about failing.
• How to be taken seriously as a young CEO in an industry that places huge demands on  leaders.
• Lessons from working with Barry and Eddie Hearn.

Putting on the big fights:

• Why it is so important for boxing to put on the biggest fights and give the fans the match-ups they want.
• The challenges associated with agreeing deals and pre-fight negotiations: purse splits, media rights, location.
• How Anthony Joshua doesn’t let the details stop him from agreeing to fight and why more boxers need to worry less about the small print and more about the overall value.
• The rise of Saudi Arabia has presented new opportunities to take boxing to different audiences and drive more revenue for all involved.
• How governments are using boxing fights to promote their countries on a global stage.
• What happens when a fighter fails a drug test, and how does that impact the wider business? 

The future of boxing:

• The rise of influencer boxing and the new opportunities it provides the sport.
• Does Frank view it as a corruption of the professional end or opportunity to build new audience and brands?
• Influencer vs. influencer is better than professional vs. influencer, but the pay packets are now often too large to turn down.
• How Matchroom had the opportunity to build an influencer division but chose to focus on professional boxing.
• The rise of women’s boxing: new audience, grassroots development, commercial growth.
• What next? How does the company keep innovating and ensure they are representing the best talent and putting on the best shows.

This week, we are joined by one of the most influential figures in the world of sport and entertainment: Michael Yormark, President of Roc Nation Sports International. With a career that spans over two decades at the intersection of business, marketing, and global talent representation, Michael has redefined what it means to manage athletes and entertainers in today’s fast-paced, multimedia-driven world. 

For the agency established by Jay-Z, Michael has been the driving force behind Roc Nation’s global expansion in sport, instrumental in representing some of the industry’s biggest names, including Vinicius Jr, Kevin De Bruyne, Endrick, Siya Kolisi. Included in that remit; creating groundbreaking partnerships, and shaping the future of athlete empowerment as brand. 

From orchestrating these multimillion-dollar brand deals to advocating for social justice initiatives, Michael is a visionary leader who’s not just pushing boundaries, he’s setting new standards. 

On today’s show we discuss:

The role of an agent:

• How to gain the trust of the biggest sports, media and entertainment stars.
• Building the Roc Nation family: person over revenue. If the best interests of the talent is put first, more often than not, everyone wins in the long run.
• What learnings were brought over from Roc Nation’s work in the music industry that have been applied so effectively to sport?
• All the best athletes, from Ronaldo to LeBron James, have had big teams around them to help them achieve greatness. What do these teams look like?
• Build the hype - why should Vinicius Jr win the Ballon D’Or?

International expansion:

• The move from the US to Europe was driven by Michael’s willingness to move and set up from scratch. How did he go about building one of the most influential international sports talent agencies?
• What surprised Michael most about the difference between European and US sport?
• How did Roc Nation communicate their vision to the top football and rugby players to bring them into the family?
• What is it like representing Kevin De Bruyne, Vinicius Jr, Endrick, Gabriel Martinelli, Siya Kolisi, and how do you decide who is the right fit for the business?

Athlete as brand:

• Players now need to be more than just their on field performance to maximise the role they can play in society. How do you help them achieve this?
• The difference between the star culture driven US sports environment and the collective team based one we see in Europe?
• Helping Vini Jr combat racism: how has the Roc Nation family supported their player as he encountered numerous racist interactions, often very publicly on the field?
• The biggest challenge for rugby players in maximising their profile? The game doesn’t want them to. Why?
• How important is it to commercial partners that the talent they partner with has a standing in society away from the sport they play?

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Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

With the Six Nations underway, it’s time to talk rugby. Benjamin Kayser won 47 caps for France, playing club rugby in both The Premiership and Top 14 for the likes of Leicester Tigers and Clermont. Since hanging up his boots, he has become a regular on our screens as a commentator and pundit with ITV. Not afraid to say it how it is, and with an undying passion for the game, there was no one better to sit down with on the eve of the tournament to look at the overall health of the sport.

We have had a number of amazing rugby chats on the show, and each one has brought a different perspective and assessment of where the game is strong and where improvements are needed. From a French perspective, the domestic game is in good stead, with media revenues triple that of the Premiership and the financial flexibility to sign the biggest players. 

But as we discuss on the show, is it too simple or even accurate to blame the salary cap in the Premiership for an inability to match the commercial performance and quality of the French league? By extension, why has it been so important for both domestic leagues and international federations to turn to Private Equity cash? 

This is unfiltered rugby chat from a former player who knows what needs to happen to bring this sport to a global audience. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Premiership vs Top 14:

• Having played in both, what is the major difference between the two leagues and has it changed since Benjamin was playing?
• We know a lot about transfer processes in football, but what happens when a rugby player moves clubs?
• The financial difference between playing in France and England.
• Why has Top 14 broken away from the Premiership in quality and commercial performance? Has France got its domestic model right?
• What has attracted billionaires to invest in the French leagues in ways we haven’t seen in England?
• The importance of multi-purpose stadia to drive revenue not reliant on rugby.

Rugby Players as Cultural Icons:

• Why have rugby players found it hard to build a ‘superstar’ profile that is needed to drive eyeballs in a sporting environment driven by individuals?
• Can you be a team player and build your own personal brand?
• Is it the responsibility of the player or the club/federation to elevate the ‘status’ of their talent?
• Has rugby leveraged media opportunities provided by OTT platforms well enough to compete with Drive to Survive or All or Nothing?
• The rise of Ilona Maher and the need for a player in the men’s game to deliver a level of engagement beyond their work on the field.

The Health of International Rugby:

• International rugby is capable of attracting hundreds of millions of viewers, but how do you transform one time watchers into regular fans?
• How relationships with club rugby organisations can influence the success of international teams.
• Should players be eligible for selection if they do not play in their domestic leagues?
• What are the economics of international rugby? How much are match fees and who gets paid the most?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

This week we are joined by Cambridge United CEO Alex Tunbridge. Last week, Cambridge was in the news for activities off the pitch, as they unveiled a full rebrand of the club, most notably revealing a new crest to create a more modern and digital feel to the branding of Cambridge, while importantly maintaining the heritage and culture so valuable to its historic identity.

Some of you may start to think we’ve got a bit of thing for League One clubs, and you may not be wrong. But when it comes to the business of football, they are some of the most intriguing organisations in the game. You face the constant challenge of chasing the gold in the Championship and Premier League, but also trying not to overstretch yourself financially and drop out of the league. How do you justify a pound spent away from the pitch? It’s our new favourite theme.

Alex and Cambridge have been one of the most ambitious when it comes to value creation away from the pitch. New training facilities, club rebrands, stadium developments, matchday experience; all of these indirectly create a value in the club to position it for long-term success. But can success off the pitch be replicated on it? This is a conflict in ideology we love to talk about, and we love what Cambridge are doing. 

In today’s show we discuss:

Spending away from the pitch:

• How a full rebrand of Cambridge United came about, and why it is so important to make sure your visual identity is fit for the modern age.
• Why did the club build a new £3.5m training complex and how do you justify significant spend on infrastructure when the money could be spent on improving the team?
• Spending on non-performance shows long term strategy; how do you get fans onside and bring the fans on the journey with you?
• How difficult is it to build value into a club while operating on budgets of less than £10m?

The role of a CEO:

• How did Alex become CEO of Newport County at the age of 29?
• What are the hardest jobs you have to take on when leading a football club?
• ‘Working in football is not a job. It’s a way of life’; the need for a top executive to be all in and commit fully to the development of the club.
• Does the CEO get involved with the football side of the business?
• The story of bringing the iconic Burger King deal to Stevenage and the value of new age digitalised commercial inventory. 

The business of the football league:

• ‘The Premier League is the best league in the world, but our football pyramid is the best pyramid in the world’. How do we protect the pyramid?
• How much do Championship, League One and League Two clubs get from the current media rights deal?
• Where do the biggest challenges lie from a business perspective when running a football club in 2024?
• How can we protect the competitive balance of the leagues but also encourage teams to continue development and push boundaries to improve the product?

Click here to see the full rebrand announcement & video:

https://www.cambridgeunited.com/news/new-club-identity-revealed

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today, we are delighted to welcome Ivan Gazidis to the show. One of the most respected executives in sport, Ivan began his career in football as one of the founding members of MLS in America, laying the foundations for the now hugely successful league. He became Chief Executive of Arsenal in 2009, spending 10 years at the helm of the Premier League club before taking the same position at AC Milan, delivering a much coveted Serie A title in 2022. 

In today’s episode, we discuss:

Football in America:

• Founding the MLS - creating the foundations for success and integrating ‘soccer’ into the US sporting environment. 
• The importance of infrastructure, from community to football-specific stadia, in creating value and long term success.
• How did Inter Miami sign Messi? MLS as a group of teams searching for collective value and the requirement to work together to facilitate a move like this.
• ‘For Major League Soccer, really the question is not how do I get baseball fans to be soccer fans, the question really is how do we get a bigger piece of the soccer pie’.
• How the value of an MLS franchise has gone from $5m to $1bn.

From League to Club Management:

• How the opportunity to take over at Arsenal came about and adapting from running a league to running a Premier League club.
• Installing a commercial structure to build the best partnerships and experiences for partners who help drive the financial success of a club.
• How do you manage a transfer process and what things are considered when making bids or accepting/rejecting offers for players?
• The genius of Arsene Wenger; a unique and incorruptible romantic view of football. 
• ‘Football is like playing with rocket fuel’. How did Ivan execute the responsibilities of his job while ensuring the emotions of the fans were always considered.
• The most special Serie A: The story behind Milan’s historic title win, returning one of Europe’s biggest clubs to its peak.

Leadership in Football:

• Football is unique as a business; it is often not clear who is really in charge. How do you operate effectively as a CEO in this environment?
• Why creating an open and inclusive environment for people to thrive is essential in football and what needs to be done to make this more commonplace?
• It’s a team game: sustainable success is about everyone and never down to one component in a single department.
• ‘When you're in the center of a club, you are living that football club with your whole life.’ Don’t underestimate how much CEOs care!

Today we welcome 7-time NASCAR Champion Jimmie Johnson, a racing legend. Motorsport has never been bigger. The Liberty Media world of F1 has exploded, MotoGP has sold for over $4bn, but what about NASCAR? The US's second most watched sport is an entertainment and commercial giant, yet outside of America, it’s fair to say exposure is limited.

Jimmie Johnson is one of the most successful drivers to grace any track; think Lewis Hamilton or Michael Schumacher. He is the joint record holder for most Championships won, dominating the sport in the noughties winning 5 titles in a row. Now, he’s changed the race seat for team ownership with Legacy Motor Club. From billion dollar media rights deals to cars described as revolving billboards, when we get into it, the business of this sport is ridiculous! We’re delighted to welcome Jimmie to the show.

On today's show we discuss:

The Business of NASCAR:

• Where does NASCAR sit in the US sporting ecosystem?
• What does it cost to buy a team, or ‘Charter’, and how many cars do you enter into a race when you have secured your spot?
• The $8bn media deal is a major financer of the sport, but what does the distribution model look like?
• How much do the top drivers get paid and how has the sport changed as regulation restricts the money spent on cars?
• Why the demand for Charters is on the rise and the shift in investor profile.
• Does NASCAR need to go global to reach its full potential? 

The Rise of Jimmie Johnson:

• From humble beginnings to the joint most Championships in NASCAR history, what did the path to the top look like?
• Racing in the 2000s was very different to racing in the present day; how did the salaries and stardom compare?
• Private planes and international fame…NASCAR drivers lived a great life, but what did the sacrifices to achieve the ultimate success look like?
• It’s hard to keep the fire burning; what did Jimmie do to ensure he kept focused and hungry?
• How is Jimmie adding value to Legacy Motor Club as a co-owner that leverages his storied career as a driver?

The Future of NASCAR:

• What does the sport need to do to reach its full potential? Should it go to the F1 playbook?
• Does the business model allow for the sport to grow? Should there be a better distribution model and decentralised control to develop the commercial end?
• With a couple of teams pushing back against the latest regulation, is the sport heading for a political dogfight?
• What does Jimmie want to achieve as an owner? 

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

This week, we are joined by Brady Stewart, CEO of the NWSL’s newest franchise Bay FC. The NWSL is going from strength to strength both on and off the field. San Francisco needed a franchise, and the birth of Bay as the women’s football team in the city steeped in sporting history is just the next step on the league’s mission to be the best women’s football league in the world.

When global investment firm Sixth Street backed the franchise with $120m, the biggest single institutional investment in women’s sport, Brady was approached to lead the team. The biggest challenge? Getting it operational and a team on the pitch in a year. 

Coming from outside of sport, Brady’s vision for the team and league is one where global brand meets performance excellence. Women’s sport and football in particular has always been a major feature in the US sporting landscape; now the rise of global and most importantly independent franchises is when this goes from being a strong local market asset to world renowned sports property.

In today’s show we discuss:

Building a team:

• From the awarding of the franchise slot to the first game a year later, how to build a brand new team from scratch?
• This was the first time the NWSL allowed for investment from Private Equity; the story behind Sixth Street’s $120m play.
• How was Brady brought into the role of CEO and why does a career from outside of sport allow her to bring additional value to the organisation? 
• What are the key things that need to be established in the first few months?
• How do you incorporate the city and community to make them feel this is their team before you have a product to put on the pitch?
• Attracting players to a new project is not easy. How do you convince them this is the team to play for?

A competition for eyeballs:

• The attention economy is more competitive than it has ever been; how does the NWSL differentiate itself from other sports properties to engage a fanbase?
• The importance of a national media deal to deliver games to every fan; accessibility of content is the key to success.
• Why women’s football in the US should be the global standard to aspire to, and what needs to happen to get there.
• The rising tide lifts all boats: it is the job of the franchises to work together to ensure the development of the league.

Football: The Product

• To build the biggest league you need to be able to attract the best players. How do you do this?
• Why the style of football in the US needs to adapt to appeal to both players and fans when compared to the European game.
• Why the NWSL has an opportunity the MLS is unlikely to have.
• How have the league regulated the club’s ability to spend on players to ensure equal competition from top to bottom?

A huge thank you to our valued sponsors:

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

And as promised on the show, some of the amazing content Bay have created around the franchise and their training ground development.

Bay FC Hype: https://icnk.io/u/LmLVaMbnig5f/

Treasure Island Training Facility Announcement: https://icnk.io/u/P92fRIikqw76/

This week we’re delighted to welcome Sean Fitzpatrick to the show. Sean was capped 92 times by New Zealand, 51 of those as captain. A World Cup winner and key member of one of the best rugby union teams, he is recognised as one of the greatest All Blacks of all time. 

Sean is more than the sum of his rugby achievements. He has been an integral part of bringing the now famous All Black culture to wider sport and business. Key ideals such as ‘sweeping the sheds’ and ‘play where your feet are’ have been brought to life in James Kerr’s excellent book ‘Legacy’. We often look at how numbers, revenue, media engagement etc. builds value in sport. Sean explains how mentality and values are the first building blocks in creating the brand that people want to buy. 

This is also about rugby more broadly. Sean’s perspective on the role of private equity investing in international rugby having been involved in Silver Lake’s minority acquisition of the All Blacks demonstrates the value that lies within the sport. But it begs the question, why is the sport still struggling? 

On today’s show we discuss:

The All Blacks Culture

• What does it mean to play for one of the most iconic badges in the world of sport?
• The life of a rugby player before the game became professional in 1995.
• How the culture of the All Blacks transcends sport, and the value that can be extracted by people living a life away from the field.
• ‘Play where your feet are’, ‘when you’re at your best, change it’. What do these sayings mean and what was the role of mindset in creating one of the greatest international teams of all time?
• It’s about the team, not the individual. However is this changing in today’s game with the need for ‘celebrity’ that wasn’t there before?
• ‘I don’t believe in work life balance’; you have to be 100% in'.
  

Sean & Performance 

• Winning the first Rugby World Cup in 1987 and the story of transitioning from domestic rugby to the international stage.
• The danger of complacency; how being the best can lead to a team dropping their standards. When this happened to Sean in the early 90’s, how did they turn this around?
• The 1995 World Cup in South Africa is now an iconised occasion in sport and popular culture; what was it like to be on the other side of that famous final and Nelson’s Mandela’s drive to unite a country using sporting success.
• Being asked to return to the All Blacks fold on two different occasions having decided to move on.

The Business of Rugby

• The increasing role of private equity in both teams and leagues across the game; why are they investing millions? What do they see as most valuable?
• A lack of global superstars is holding the sport back; the game needs individuals like Jonah Lomu to bring it to the front of the attention economy.
• Experiential is the key to driving value. Create amazing experience and capitalise on a reported 1 billion engagement with the All Blacks brand.
• Building a global IPL/F1 tournament series would bring the entertainment and excitement to the club level like we haven’t seen, but are the barriers to doing this insurmountable?

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

James Kerr - 'Legacy' (must read!) https://www.littlebrown.co.uk/titles/james-kerr/legacy/9781472103536/ 

This week I’m delighted to welcome Paul McVeigh to the show. We spend a lot of time looking at sports away from performance reviews. When we focus on players or athletes, we want to know, who are the people and personalities behind the faces we become so familiar with, and how do they convert what they've learnt beyond sport?

Footballers as intelligent, creative, innovative individuals is not something normally considered. We have a picture painted of what a player is like and the stereotype has stuck. This has changed slightly over the years, but the fact remains, understanding their value and opportunity to influence outside of the sport is often overlooked.

Paul McVeigh has played a major role in shifting this perception. With over 300 appearances for top teams like Tottenham and Norwich and a full international for Northern Ireland, he has played at the highest level possible in the game. But then we add this. An early adopter is sports psychology before it became commonplace. A passion for business away from the field. A masters in sports psychology. Keynote speaker to Microsoft, Deutsche Bank, Allianz and many more.

How has he achieved this? Why did he decide to go down this path? What is it about Paul that these companies see as so valuable? This is a conversation that more than validates the title of Paul’s book and his firm belief; ‘the stupid footballer is dead’. 

On today’s show, we discuss:

Treading your own path:

• How moving from Northern Ireland to London opened Paul’s eyes to the multi-faceted football industry.
• Redefining his first contract from Tottenham owner Alan Sugar and the fight to retain focus on achieving your goals when money and notoriety interferes.
• The confidence to try new things is intimidating for many; people don’t like change. How a yoga mat created a stir in the Norwich City dressing room.
• The impact of reading Tony Robbins book set Paul on the path to exploring the importance of sports psychology in a time where physical performance ruled above all.

Work on your mind!

• Psychology is the most important part of a professional sportsperson’s career. Work on it as much if not more than you do your technique or physique!
• Learn, unlearn, relearn: stages of your career require different skills to succeed. Winning a professional contract won’t be the same as becoming one of the best players in the Premier League.
• ‘Football is the most ruthless industry in the world’. What does Paul mean by this? What makes the sport so unforgiving?
• Be an innovator, don’t be a sheep. Change is what drives success in many top organisations, but the majority fear new habits and environments they’re not familiar with.

Value away from the pitch

• Paul’s career as a keynote speaker to some of the world’s biggest companies has been a huge success. How did he discover this was something he could make a living from?
• ‘The Stupid Footballer is Dead’ is the title of Paul’s book. Footballers are stereotyped based on cultural assumptions on their interests and personalities. Why is it important to change this narrative?
• Performance, leadership, teamwork; the three most valuable aspects of a footballer that translate effortlessly into great business people.
• How socio-economic factors have reduced opportunities for footballers to build careers in ways rugby and cricket players have managed to.

Do you want to know how Premier League teams build world class environments? Check out Paul's 'Teamwork Masterclass' https://teamworkmasterclass.carrd.co/

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

This week, we are delighted to welcome Ryan Smith. Ryan is the owner of the NBA’s Utah Jazz, and co-owner of Real Salt Lake in the MLS. He is also founder and executive chairman of Qualtrics, an experience management software company he built from the ground up, and the co-founder and chairman of Smith Entertainment Group.

Ryan and his wife Ashley purchased the Utah Jazz in late 2020 as part of the launch of Smith Entertainment Group (SEG), which also includes the Delta Center, SEG Media, Real Salt Lake (MLS), the Utah Royals (NWSL - coming in 2024), America First Credit Union Field, Salt Lake City Stars (NBA G League), Utah Jazz Gaming (NBA 2K League), Real Monarchs (MLS NEXT Pro), and other Utah-centric business ventures.

On today’s show, we discuss:

From tech to sports ownership:

• How to apply learnings from business and entrepreneurship into a sports environment.
• What does it take to buy an NBA franchise and how to make sure you can run a sustainable organisation without compromising on success?
• Building a culture everyone can get behind and the importance of passion to drive performance.
• What are the responsibilities of an owner? How to build a team on and off the court to match your ambitions. 

Utah Jazz and the NBA:

• The business of the NBA and franchise development: is team ownership a good way to spend your money? 
• Ryan’s passion for sport in Utah and using it to build value in the state.
• How the ownership model has changed: a rise in price means we are seeing more ‘group’ acquisitions rather than wealthy individual control.
• Fan experience is everything. The importance of building an occasion that is tailored to exceed the expectations of everyone in attendance.
• New media deals at the local level to take control of content distribution and access.

The rise of MLS

• Messi’s contract with Inter Miami has changed the game for MLS. How are the other franchises gaining from his participation?
• A new age of athlete contracts: how a deal with Apple and global promotion takes the product to a new level.
• From owning the Jazz to Real Salt Lake. The importance of David Blitzer to Ryan’s ownership and how he manages his time between the two.
• The opportunity offered by the security of the franchise system vs the open league that is great for competition but not for overall asset value.

This week we welcome Pat Cummins, captain of the Australia Test and One-Day team. Pat is about to lead newly crowned World Test Champions Australia into a hotly anticipated Ashes series against England, his first as captain. 

In today’s episode with Pat, we discuss: 

1. The responsibilities of a captain:

• How Pat became Australia captain and the key principles he sought to imprint on the team.

• The importance of building a culture that is inclusive and fair while ensuring the highest standards are maintained.

• Pat’s philosophy on leadership and how it differs from previous regimes.

• What does Pat do to balance his relationship with the players and management to ensure the responsibilities never come into conflict?

2. Managing the personal and the professional:

• ‘We play over 100 days of the year for Australia’. How does Pat balance family life with professional commitments?

• How to manage the highs and lows of professional sport and the importance of forming strong relationships in a team environment.

• The importance of routine and consistency when not on the pitch; find the habits that work and repeat them.

• How does Pat deal with pressure? How does he handle the increased scrutiny that comes with being captain?

3. The emergence of franchise cricket:

• The rise of T20 cricket and the demand that places on the schedules of players.

• The financial opportunities franchise leagues like the IPL offer and how that has changed the sport.

• ‘We want our best players playing for Australia as much as we can’. How does international cricket compete against franchise leagues?

• What is Pat’s decision-making process when choosing which tournaments to play?

4. Interests outside of cricket and exploring the investment world:

• How important is it for Pat to have passions away from cricket?

• Pat’s experience as an angel investor and the transferable skills of professional athletes.

• Founders want increased brand awareness and content. Pat’s desire to change the expectations placed on athlete investors.

• The opportunity to build more media value and sustainability around longer-form cricket to accompany the success of the short-form game.

This week, we are delighted to welcome James Barclay to the show. James is Team Principal at Jaguar Racing, the current Formula E constructors World Champion. We have done some amazing shows on Formula 1, but this is a new area to venture into. Formula E is the fastest growing motorsport in the world. 

It has been a rapid rise for electric racing since the first season in 2014. In an age where the environment and sustainability dominates, this format has become a pioneer of ‘green’ sport, influencing the technological development of electric cars and influencing broader automotive consumption habits. With the now infamous rebrand of Jaguar at the end of last year, what role does the company’s participation in this sport now play in broader company objectives built exclusively around electric vehicles?

James has been the team Principal since 2015, when the manufacturer first entered the sport. This was the chance to sit down and discuss this alongside the success of Formula 1, understand the similarities and differences, and review how the business of the teams and wider sport works. It’s an entertainment product for the modern age, and a modern audience. 

What makes the Jaguar car faster than an F1 car 0-60? What is the cost of running a Championship winning team? Could Max Verstappen win in a Formula E car? Let’s find out.

On today’s show we discuss:

The world of Formula E:

• Creating a new sport - the origins of Formula E and how it differs from other forms of racing.
• How has it evolved since its inception; from a concept on the back of a napkin to leading global motorsport.
• What do the revenue streams look like for a Formula E team? From sponsorship to prize money to media rights.
• Do spending caps and regulations placed on the teams drive financial sustainability?
• How media rights and the mediafication of sport has affected Formula E? Is there a Drive to Survive moment on the horizon?
• How do drivers become Formula E drivers rather than another motorsport? What are the differences?

Formula E vs Formula 1:

• What are the similarities between the two formats? 
• What has F1 copied from Formula E? Are the two in competition or can they coexist harmoniously?
• How would F1 drivers fare in the Formula E championship? If you put Max Verstappen in a Jaguar car, would he win the Championship?
• What lessons can Formula E take from F1 when it comes to global outreach?
• Do Formula E’s cars lead to better racing? More overtakes, quicker acceleration, more skill?

The future of EVs and Jaguar:

• How much does Motorsport at the elite end influence global consumer habits across an automotive industry?
• How the Jaguar rebrand towards EVs affected their participation in Formula E? Is all press good press?
• In what ways do the sponsors in Formula E advance the overall development in EV technology?
• Holding exclusive rights to electric racing until 2039, is Formula E the future?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 
https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com
https://uk.scan.com/

Carolyn is the co-owner and Governor of current NWSL champions Gotham FC. The NWSL is the flourishing women’s football, or soccer, league in the US. Much like the MLS, franchise slots for the league have become a coveted asset to own, with former Disney CEO Bob Iger reportedly paying $250m for Angel City last month. 

Carolyn and her family’s ownership stake in Gotham was announced in 2023. They also own the NFL’s New York Giants. Carolyn also ran Peloton’s marketing department as the company rose from promising start-up to multi-billion fitness empire. 

The success of women’s sport is a hot topic and while there are concerns over the structure and commercial viability of football in Europe, the US seems to have found a solution. In this show, we find out how. 

In today’s show, we discuss:

How to own a team:

• What is the process like to become the owner of an NWSL franchise? 
• Why the skills and experiences of owners are increasingly valuable as sports assets become more than ‘performance’ organisations.
• Learnings from building Peloton into one of the leading brands in an increasingly competitive fitness industry.
• Carolyn’s family are owners of the NFL’s New York Giants. What are the similarities between owning an established franchise in a developed league and an emerging team in a developing system? 

The NWSL: an emerging player?

• Women's football has been a driver of women’s sport in the US for many years, but a developed and successful league is key to building value into the industry.
• What does the league do well and where are there areas for improvement? How easy is it to implement change?
• Ensuring engaging competition from top to bottom is crucial to the competition’s success. How do you maintain that level of competitiveness and equality within the system?
• Can NWSL teams become billion dollar franchises? What needs to happen to build value across the league to elevate the standing of the assets?

Women’s sport on the rise:

• In recent history, women’s sport was not part of modern culture; the importance of changing the profile of various sports to propel female athletes into popular culture.
• Female athletes have a major role to play in society outside of the sporting environment they operate in.
• Building on the success of women’s football in the US to drive increased brand exposure and experiential opportunity for communities.
• 99% of investment in sport went into the men’s industry, but that is starting to change and the results are beginning to show.

The week we're delighted to welcome Felix Starck to the show. Felix is CEO of Baller League, an alternative to historic sporting competition. New propositions, new formats, new leagues. A lot of conversation we have on the show focuses on how leagues are in need of development and refreshment and subsequently what alternatives could be out there to entice the coveted youth audience rightsholders crave. 

Baller League is this new product. 6 a-side, entertainment driven, quick football, short matches, free to air. It addresses many of the barriers identified in the footballing landscape. It’s revenues are approaching €20m, KSI, Figo, John Terry, ishowspeed all involved, Leagues being created in the UK and US after massively successful launch in Germany…and most impressive? It’s a year old.

Felix is shaking up the sport. He coins it the UFC of football. What does that mean? And how do you ensure this is a sustainable competition not a flash in the pan. A new form of football to sit alongside the traditional game, not detract from it. As Felix says, go and check it out before passing judgement. 

On today’s show:

The UFC of Football:

• Why MMA was a sport in need of dramatic change to maintain its relevance when UFC was created to package a new product and create global icons in the process.
• Sport is increasingly hero driven; you need to create your own stars and not rely on the fandom of current players. How?
• This is not an enemy of football. Where does this competition sit in the current footballing landscape?
• ‘Slow sports are dead sports in the future’. 
• Why Baller League will create a product for women’s football that is tailor made to the qualities of female players.

Baller League - Story so Far:

• How has Felix set up a challenger football league attracting some of the biggest names from sport and entertainment is a year?
• What are the rules of competition? Why is this format what the current attention economy craves?
• How do you become a player in Baller League? From academy to fustsal to professional footballers.
• Owning a franchise; who does Felix want to have as part of the ownership and what is expected if you take a franchise on?
• What are the financials of operating the league? How much does it cost to put on an event? Are the players paid?

Global Expansion:

• The league has had an amazing start to life in Germany. What has worked?
• Establishing a league in the UK and US; the launches are imminent. What goes into launching in a new country? 
• From new sponsors to the best venues, who will be involved and where will it be played?
• Which country is best set for Baller League to thrive?
• Will there be purpose built stadia as Baller establishes itself in new markets? 

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today, we bring you the man who founded the global phenomenon HYROX. Mo is a double Olympic Gold Medallist in hockey, having won with Germany in Beijing and London. Described to me by someone who knows far more about the sport as ‘The Cristiano Ronaldo’ of field hockey, we were pretty excited to get both a sporting icon and high flying entrepreneur in the studio; always what we strive for on the Business of Sport!

Since it was founded in 2017, HYROX has become a major player in sporting participation. Consisting of both running and 8 separate ‘fitness’ activities to form a unique race format, millions of people have participated in their events around the world. The success has been so impressive that they have now had to implement a ballot in some cities (including London where they had over 70,000 applications) to manage demand.

But this isn’t just a series of fitness events; this is a sport, the driving values of which lie in community and engagement. I can’t deny, when we got into it, the business was pretty insane too. This has been the most requested show over the last 3 months. It was a lot of fun entering a completely new area for the show. This is one incredible sports asset that is only going to get bigger.

We’re delighted to welcome Mo to the Business of Sport.

What is HYROX?:

• “52% of people call fitness their sport, but what is the sport”? What was the opportunity moment that led to Mo and Christian embarking on their HYROX journey?
• A breakdown of what an event actually consists of; from running to sled pushes to rowing.
• How they have taken HYROX from a 650 person event in Hamburg in 2017 to 650,000 signed up global participants this year across 85 events.
• Can anyone participate in HYROX? Who is the target audience?
• How did Mo’s experience as an athlete prepare him for life as an entrepreneur?

Creating Community:

• “You cannot reduce this down to the business model”: how Moritz created one of the most engaged fitness communities in the world.
• Why does he think this has resonated with so many people and what do they attribute the success of HYROX to so far?
• What does it mean to build community? Lots of people talk about it but very few are able to achieve and then maintain it.
• Why is it so important to build out both the professional end and the mass participation front?

The Business of HYROX:

• From a near $100m in sign-ups this year to selling media packages to the majority of participants, how do you build on the HYROX hype without exploiting the loyalty of the people who helped build it? 
• The importance of relationships with global brands like PUMA and Red Bull; the commercial model that powers the brands.
• How an affiliate model with gyms will power the development of the sport and allow people to train specifically for events.
• Which events have HYROX licensed and which ones do they keep in-house; the logistics of operating a global series.

Check out HYROX here:

https://hyrox.com/

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

This week, we’re delighted to welcome Lee Johnson to the show. Lee has had a stellar career as both a player and manager, playing over 400 games before becoming the youngest manager in the Football League at 31 when he took over at Oldham in 2013. Since that first job he has managed some historic clubs including Sunderland, Bristol City, and Hibernian.

After a tough year, leaving Hibs followed by a very brief spell at Fleetwood, Lee took the time out to reflect on the next stage of his career and gain some different experiences, from working with Manchester City’s development squad, to going to Africa to source the best young talent. 

The life of a football manager is a pretty crazy one. You live on a knife edge; job security is not something that exists for 99.9%. Lee has been a victim of his own success on more than one occasion, over-achieving and setting new expectations that then need to be continuously met. Hire and fire culture is a reality of modern day football, but it’s not a good one. What is it like being on the manager's end of the deal?

A huge advocate of technology, data and modern coaching methods, this is a detailed review of life as a top level manager while also looking at an evolving football industry continuously in a state of unpredictable change. As always with the best football shows, topped off with some eye-opening stories!

On today’s show we discuss:

Life as a Manager:

• From becoming the youngest manager in the Football League to taking a break following two sackings in a season, the ups and downs of management.
• What was the transition like when Lee made the step from being part of a dressing room to leading one?
• What is a manager’s greatest anxiety?
• Learning from the best; how a relationship with Kenny Dalglish helped Lee establish his managerial career.
• ‘Sometimes football gives you a rest’. What is next for Lee now he has had some time out from the game?
• Why managing mavericks in the game is something a manager has to learn to use to the team’s advantage.

Managing Top Clubs:

• ‘Bristol City was a team for tomorrow’. What does Lee mean by this?
• The importance of balancing good business and player sales with ambition on the pitch and being able to compete.
• A manager can very quickly become a victim of their own success; how strong starts at Bristol City and Sunderland raised the bar of expectation for future results. 
• How do you manage up? Why the relationship between manager and owner is crucial.
• Changing the goal line; how a job can be sold to a manager as one thing and be very different when you get there.
• What it was like beating Jose Mourinho and competing with Pep Guardiola in a historic Bristol City cup run.

The State of Football:

• Are clubs making too many business decisions that are not based on sporting success? 
• Data led recruitment has become the most important strategy in football, but are there other things to consider when signing a player?
• Should managers change their style when you get promoted to a new league?

Our Partners:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

Today, we are delighted to welcome rugby union legend Sam Warburton to the show. At 22, Sam was made captain of Wales, becoming the 3rd youngest captain in their history. He oversaw one of the most successful periods in Welsh rugby, winning the 6 Nations twice including a historic Grand Slam in 2012, while also guiding them to a World Cup semi-final in 2011. 

He also became the youngest captain of the British and Irish Lions for their 2013 tour of Australia, delivering a first series win since 1997. When named captain for the tour of New Zealand four years later, he became only the second person after Martin Johnson to lead the side on two tours.

Sam retired at 29, having been blighted by injuries resulting from a relentless style of play. A career in the media, alongside a number of business ventures has followed, but the values he stood for on the pitch and the mentality adopted to succeed are the epitome of the transferable values athletes bring away from performance.

We discuss:

The making of leaders:

• Leadership comes in many forms. What is Sam’s experience of captaincy and the importance of a tailored approach?
• A reluctant leader? There were players with 100 caps and 10 years more experience, but Warren Gatland made a 22 years old flanker his captain. Why?
• How success can depend on the people you surround yourself with. 
• What were the tactics Sam used to get the best out of his players. It is not a one size fits all approach; you need to have different strategies for different personalities.
• The honour of being captain of your country and The Lions and how that influenced how Sam played his game.
• The value of perspective. Realising what is important and when to contextualise what happens in sport. 
  

Wales & The Lions:

• Grand Slams, World Cups, two British & Irish Lions tours, Sam was a staple on rugby’s biggest stages. What were these occasions like to play in?
• The success Wales achieved under his leadership is well documented. How was that curated from boardroom to dressing room? 
• Sam’s infamous semi-final red card in the 2011 World Cup and the fear it would be his ‘Beckham moment’, but the reality was very different!
• The Lions was the pinnacle. What did it mean to pull on that number 7 jersey for the first time?
• How the physical demands of international rugby meant he had to adapt his approach to playing for Cardiff Blues.

The wider rugby landscape:

• The success of international rugby carries the game. We need to find a way to elevate the importance of the club competitions. How?
• Would promotion and relegation be good for The Six Nations? What are the arguments for and against this initiative?
• The pressures of playing sport in the era of social media bring a different set of challenges. You need to block out the noise and focus on your game, not what people are saying about you. 
• Why Owen Farrell moving to France is a good thing for his game.
• Welsh rugby is the pride of the country, and the system needs to reflect that in the quality of its product. What would Sam do to elevate the game in Wales? 

For this episode, we are delighted to partner with SeatUnique, the ultimate destination for elevating live events into unforgettable experiences. 

Visit seatunique.com to discover some of the incredible packages they have to offer across some of the biggest sport, media and entertainment events.

This week we’re delighted to welcome EFL Chair Rick Parry to the show. Rick has seen it all in football; The first CEO of the Premier League, CEO of Liverpool (1998-2009), and now Chair of English Football League. It can easily be argued that overseeing the interests of 72 clubs ranging from Leeds to Morecambe, is the hardest job in football.

But Rick would never look at it like that. When we asked why take this job now having been offered it in the past, he simply responded ‘because I believe I can make a difference’. Football in the UK is at an interesting junction; the Premier League has never been more successful, financially and engagement wise, but there are question marks over its long term stability. The EFL has recently agreed a mega £1bn broadcast deal with Sky with the quality of football on the rise, yet the financial chasm to the Premier only increases. 

How do you make clubs sustainable businesses? How do you bridge the financial gap between the leagues? How do you protect a community’s most socially valuable asset? The challenge was laid out perfectly: ‘We want sporting jeopardy without financial catastrophe’.

Rick’s assessment of the health of the infamous football pyramid alongside the power of enterprise Premier League asks the key question: should the Premier League do more to support the football structure that enables its success? 

On today’s show we discuss:

Forming the Premier League:

• How was the world’s most successful league created in a few hours with a new set of groundbreaking regulations to govern it?
• The importance of the relationship with Sky in building a business model that supported the global growth of English football and its assets.
• How much money did the Premier League make compared to the EFL in the first season and what has that gap grown to now?
• What makes English football so unique and special compared to other leagues? 
• The essence of the game is opportunity; anyone can reach the Premier League and anyone can win it. Rising through the pyramid (and falling down it) is the jeopardy we all want!

Financial Successes and Challenges:

• The Premier League was productised to create a marketable and best in class football product, but did Rick ever expect the gap to the EFL to be so big?
• How much does the EFL generate today and what does it need to do to ensure the sustainability of its 72 member clubs?
• “We must create sporting jeopardy without financial catastrophe”; why owner financing cannot be the model to build a club on.
• The Premier League makes £2.2bn more than any other League. Why does it need to be spending more money that it’s earning?

Distribution & Regulation:

• Should the Premier League be paying more money to the EFL to share in the spoils of the success it achieves as part of the English pyramid?
• Does football need an independent regulator? What would a regulator be able to do that the current governance structure is incapable of implementing?
• “You don’t need a parachute to fall off a step. You need a parachute to fall off a cliff”; Why parachute payments are a problem.
• The Premier League has chosen to spend £850m more on wages when the EFL asked for £300m to support their business. What does that mean?

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Ollie is the vice captain of the England cricket team. Last month, with Ben Stokes out injured, he was made captain for the first time for the series against Sri Lanka. He has been a key part of the side that over the last few years has transformed how test cricket is both viewed and played. An insight into what is going on behind the scenes with England throughout this period is something we’ve wanted to dig into from the start of the show. It’s fair to say that the future of test match cricket hinges significantly on the format's ability to sustain the engagement of a changing demographic and provide the entertainment expected by a modern sporting audience.

Ollie is at the heart of this. As tempting as it was to spend the whole time digging into Bazball, while obviously not calling it Bazball because they really don’t like that phrase, this is a rare unveiling of a cricketer's view of the modern game. England’s style has created an air of excitement that now surrounds the test match stage once more, but as Ollie outlines, the future needs to be more than India, England and Australia playing each other. From the view of the players, the ones that sit at the heart of this, how do you do it? 

On this week’s show, we discuss:

How to focus on your priorities:

• Why playing for England will always be the focus for Ollie as long as he is selected in the team.
• What was it like walking out onto the field as England captain for the recent test series against Sri Lanka?
• With a packed global calendar now incorporating test, short form and franchise cricket, how do you prioritise what to play in and what are the consequences of those choices?
• There is a place in the game for all these formats, but they need to work together to co-exist rather than compete aggressively and take players from each other.

A new England:

• What changed when Brendon McCullum took over the role of England coach?
• How important is it to have the support and encouragement of the management team to drive your ambition and performance?
• The value placed on security; it is not to encourage complacency, but knowing you will have the time to prove yourself in the team and not be dropped for one bad performance helps establish great players.
• What makes this England team stand out? How have the players bought into the new ideas and objectives of the management team?
• The importance of experience. Having Stokes, Cook, Root, Anderson, Broad all play in the same team as Ollie throughout his career has enabled him to learn from some of the greatest players in the game.

Becoming a professional:

• Cricket can have some strange pathways to the top. How did Ollie cope with being thrust into the England team after playing 15 first class games?
• With all the opportunity to play so many different styles of the game, has the rise of franchise cricket shaped how youngsters are learning how to play cricket?
• What do the contracts look like when you get into the sport and how does it work between county and country?
• What becoming an experienced member of the dressing room does for you as a player and your ability to act as mentor to the new teammates starting out.

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Today, we welcome a British sporting legend. That term can get thrown around a lot, but as a multiple Olympic, World and European Champion, Alistair Brownlee is one of the greatest triathletes of all time. As you hopefully now know with this show, the sporting success is only one side of our guests. It’s what they are doing alongside their elite performance that drives our intrigue, and Alistair is far more than the sum of his medals.

The money in athletics and triathlon is nothing like the money available in other major sports, and therefore it can often be difficult to carve out a career in it, let alone look at how to invest and create value for yourself off the back of medals and titles. But Alistair took a different approach, and has been educating and investing throughout much of his professional career, heeding the advice of his coach who told him ‘if you invest this money now, that could be a year you don’t have to work when you retire’.

From giving up a medicine degree at Cambridge to commit to triathlon to winning double Olympic gold, including a famous London 2012 victory, this is an athlete who understands the true value a life in sport can bring to business. Newly retired, how does an elite performer fill the void left by regular sporting competition? In his own words, “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”.

On today’s show we discuss:

Sport over Education?

• Do you always have to sacrifice education to pursue a career at the top end of sport? 
• How did Alistair decide that he would chase the dream of becoming a professional triathlete over his medicine degree at Cambridge?
• What sacrifices do elite athletes have to make in the pursuit of success in their given sport? Do they view it as a sacrifice?
• As an athlete it is important to have things in your life that are not related to sport, and why it doesn’t mean you are not committed if you do.

Finances of Athletics 

• Is there enough money in professional triathlon to make it your full time job?
• What are the financial rewards on offer for winning events and performing at the highest possible level?
• How do sponsorships work? A more niche sport makes it harder to sign big deals; how did Alistair and his brother Jonny break the mould and sign a high profile contract with BT?
• What advice was Alistair given by his coach that encouraged him to invest some of his winnings and not spend them?
• Winning Olympic gold in London thrust him into the limelight in a short space of time. What changes when you achieve this kind of success?

A life after sport:

• It’s often said that athletes die twice, the first time being when they retire. Having made the announcement at the end of last year, what is next for Alistair?
• How important is it to prepare for your life after sport while you are still competing and not waiting until you finish?
• The rise of ‘Ultra’ competitions and the attraction of finding new challenges in competition as well as business.
• “I’ve had such an amazing career in sport and now I’m really excited about trying to be successful in another sphere”

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This week, we are delighted to welcome Alexis Ohanian. Alexis has become a prolific sports asset owner and investor, with controlling stakes in the NWSL’s Angel City, TGL franchise Los Angeles Golf Club, and new athletics venture Athlos. Alongside his involvement in sport, Alexis is the Founder and General Partner of 776, an early stage venture capital firm with $970m AUM. He is also one of the co-founders of Reddit.

You add all that together and apply it to sport, the outcome is pretty special. Married to tennis legend Serene Williams, they have been huge advocates for the development of women’s sport. His belief is simple. Women’s sport hasn’t scratched the surface of its potential as an entertainment product, investment opportunity, or social needle mover. Great investors take advantage of untapped value. To do this while elevating the profile of an entire industry is pretty special. 

On today’s show we discuss:

1. $31M in Revenue: The P&L of a Sports Team:

• What are the core revenue drivers for Angel City Football Team?
• How did Alexis convince Doordash to write the largest-ever brand sponsorship check to have the Doordash name on the Angel City shirt?
• How much money does Angel City make from ticket sales per year?
• What does the revenue from merchandise look like for Angel City? How has it changed with time?

2. How to Spend $31M Annually To Run a Team:

• What are the single biggest costs in running a sports team?
• Does Alexis believe that salary caps are good or bad for leagues?
• How much money is spent by clubs on content and software today? How should that change?
• Sports team optimised to be media companies; how to build the profile of your atheletes away from the pitch.

3. More Cash in Sports Than Ever:

• Prices for teams are at an all-time high. Are we in a bubble for sports assets?
• What remains under-priced and what is over-priced today?
• What are the pros and cons of private equity entering sports ownership in a meaningful way?
• Who is the worst sports team owner who despite his mismanagement, still made billions?

Jamie Reuben is the Co-Owner of Newcastle United FC and Owner of Arena Racing Company. Since their takeover at the end of 2021, Newcastle’s journey has been incredible, surviving relegation before pushing on and achieving an extraordinary Champions League qualification this season.

In today’s episode with Jamie, we discuss:

His plans to build a club challenging at the top level:

• How Jamie became part of the consortium to buy Newcastle United and the process they went through to complete the takeover.
• What are Jamie’s thoughts on the value of Premier League football clubs and how the reported £300m deal compares in the current market?
• Newcastle’s dedication to abide by Financial Fair Play while trying to attract top talent and improve the playing squad.
• Jamie’s views on the role of football club owners and different ways to engage and connect with their fans

The importance of hiring the right people:

• The story behind Eddie Howe’s appointment as manager and how he won over the board. 
• Why having clear and defined roles across operations and performance created the best environment for success and development. 
• Newcastle’s desire to sign the best players who fit the culture of the club and who put ‘team’ at the heart of everything. 
• The role data is playing in uncovering talent and the edge he believes this gives when building a squad capable of competing for the league.

The commercial opportunities that make the Premier League so formidable:

• Why media rights are so important to the total revenue generated by Premier League clubs and how that allows them to spend more on the team.
• ‘It’s a big aspiration of ours to build our brand globally and attract more fans from around the world’. How does Jamie plan to achieve this?
• Is there room to improve the equally distributed international media rights package and which regions can be targeted to achieve this?
• Does a commercial opportunity ever come into conflict with the fans? 
• How the commitment to distribute finances from top to bottom creates a more competitive product.

The value of a sporting portfolio:

• Jamie’s passion for horseracing and how their ownership of Arena Racing Company fits into the wider sporting portfolio.
• How does the business of racing compare to the business of football, and do the key financial drivers differ?
• Can more be done to improve the media and content around racing as we have seen in Formula 1 and football?
• Jamie’s ambition to add more assets to their sporting portfolio.

This week we’re delighted to welcome Brett Johnson to the show. Brett is the co-owner of Ipswich in the Premier League and Phoenix Rising and Rhode Island in the US. The rise of Ipswich since his group takeover is nothing short of ownership dreamland, seeing the club achieve back to back promotions from League One to the Premier League.

But this is only the most recent success for Brett in football. The joy of speaking to owners on the show is getting access to the people behind the numbers and strategies. Who really are our owners? He has been a key driver of development in the US, building infrastructure, brand and talent in the league under the MLS, the USL. Phoenix Rising has seen huge success over the past decade, from rebrand to new stadium to Didier Drogba, and his new team Rhode Island is set to do great things both on the pitch and in the community. 

Sports ownership is one of the most opaque parts of the sports industry. This conversation draws back the curtain. Owners like Brett are what the game needs. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Founding franchises:

• Identifying opportunity: there are many cities in the US with massive football communities that don’t have an MLS team. What can you create outside of the top system?
• How the birth of Phoenix Rising led to the build of a new stadium, development of young talent, and the recruiting of the legendary Didier Drogba as player and part-owner.
• Location, Location, Location - these franchises are more than sports teams. They play key roles in the community, from employment to infrastructure/real estate to social value.
• Why Rhode Island and what is the opportunity with this new USL franchise?
• There is value in the MLS and no one is complaining, but the league needs to become more than a retirement league. 

US sports leagues:

• Huge value, but limited jeopardy; why it is so hard to facilitate top to bottom relevance in a league season and retain maximum asset value.
• What are the buy-in prices for football in the US? It is rumoured that MLS team expansion franchises are now worth $600m. A USL franchise is worth $20m. Which one represents better business?
• A deep dive on the USL and why there is so much opportunity from a business perspective and value add from a talent perspective. 
• How do these businesses run? What are the key revenue streams and how do you ensure you build a business that relies on a strong foundation not fanciful equity valuations. 
  

Ipswich & English football

• If you want to be big in football, you need to be in England. This was always Brett’s ambition when becoming a team owner. The next question was which club?
• From being approached by Peter Kenyon to buy Newcastle to deciding Ipswich was the club to go after; what were the key factors in buying the club?
• Open leagues create the most incredible highs and lowest lows, from both the business side and for the fans. Relegation may decrease value, but rising through the leagues can add hundreds of millions to the value of a club.
• The value of English football is so because of the commercial and media revenues it can generate. Can the MLS create that same value without having promotion and relegation, and what is the impact of not doing that?

This week, we take a look inside one of the most talked about clubs this season. From hiring Wayne Rooney as manager to knocking Liverpool out of the FA Cup, it’s been a crazy season for Plymouth and CEO Andrew Parkinson. Even more so when the club finds itself bottom of the championship fighting for survival. But this is a club that continually outperforms its budget, competing against teams with 6x bigger budgets, and that’s what we want to get into today. How do you build success in a football club when you can’t rely on money to win? 

On today's show we discuss:

Economics of a Championship Team:

• How do Plymouth compare to their rivals when it comes to the financial resources at their disposal?
• What does a club in the bottom half of the table generate in revenue?
• How much can they afford to spend on player budgets?
• The importance of having multiple budgets for multiple scenarios: facing the relegation reality.
• How much can a Championship team earn from sponsorship?

Plymouth this Season:

• Hiring Wayne Rooney at the start of the season attracted a lot of attention; was it more than a PR move?
• …and what happens when you have to sack a manager?
• The competitive nature of the Championship and the importance of staying in the decision for both financial and player retention reasons
• The value beyond emotions of beating Liverpool and pushing Manchester City in the FA Cup

Improve the Business of Football:

• Why Plymouth are looking for investment and what they would be able to do with an additional capital injection.
• Developing a high performing and well supported women’s team is a priority, but should it be under the same banner as the men’s?
• Does the 3pm blackout help or hinder football across the pyramid?
• Can the club implement a media strategy to help support the profile and exposure of the club?
• Cracking America: capitalising on the pilgrims link with the US  

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This week, we are delighted to welcome Matt Higgins to the show. Concisely explaining Matt’s career is a challenge. In the world of sport, he has been a managing executive at the New York Jets and Miami Dolphins in the NFL, founder of sports events and media company Relevent Sports, an early investor in the Drone Racing League. 

In the business world, the story is equally impressive. The youngest press secretary in New York City history, founder of investment first RSE Ventures, one of the sharks on US TV’s ‘Shark Tank’, Wall Street Journal Bestselling author for his recent book ‘Burn the Boats’. 

You know on this show that we like to explore what fuels the sports industry through the perspectives of those that live it behind the scenes every day. Matt brings all of that and some, often accompanied by timely anecdotes, alongside the perspective of someone who has lived a life outside of sport. 

In today’s show we discuss:

Career in the NFL:

• Matt held the position of Executive Vice President at the New York Jets and Vice Chairman of the Miami Dolphins. What did these jobs involve?
• Key revenue streams in NFL franchises - from tickets, to suites, to sponsorships, how do the behind the scenes team maximise the commercial performance of major sports organisations?
• The importance of adopting new technology and innovative strategy as a sport and an independent franchise.
• Building and funding the MetLife stadium in New York; from financing to naming rights deals and everything in between. 

Big money and sport

• Investment in sport from private equity, nation states, high net worth individuals has been on the rise in recent years. Why?
• Is private equity good for sport?
• The importance of retaining control and governance as investment is received. More money is good; less control is not.
• The importance of having people who have been operators before running the business of a sports entity. You can’t learn it from a spreadsheet.
• Why every franchise or team should have their own fund/financing vehicle. Owning a sports asset provides next level access to deals and the opportunity to become early adopters.

A career alongside sports management

• Setting up investment fund RSE Ventures and investing in/founding organisations like Relevent Sports and Drone Racing League 
• Owning a stake in a pickleball team alongside LeBron James and the opportunity presented by new sports to disrupt the existing ecosystem 
• Matt’s attempt to purchase Formula One was eventually unsuccessful when Liberty Media purchased the company. What did he see in the opportunity?
• Bringing the biggest teams in Europe to the US through the creation of the International Champions Cup.

Matt's book 'Burn the Boats' is an amazing read. We highly recommend checking it out here - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Burn-Boats-Overboard-Unleash-Potential/dp/006308886X

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

This week we welcome Spurs defender Ben Davies to the show. One of the Premier League’s most experienced current players with nearly 300 top flight appearances for Tottenham and Swansea, he has also won 86 caps for Wales.

But there is much more to Ben than just the footballer. We couldn’t go through this chat without getting the inside track on his 10 years at Spurs and winning trophies with his boyhood club Swansea. However, alongside this, it’s a wider conversation on the current footballing landscape. 

The finances of a footballer and how they’re reported, his perspective on VAR, working with Pochettino, Mourinho, Conte, Rodgers, and the impact to a team of losing big players like Harry Kane, it’s a current players open and honest perspective of the business of football. 

Footballers often get a bad rep. If you want to see the other side of what players are like, listen to this.

On today's show we discuss:

Managers and leadership:

• Pochettino, Conte, Mourinho - what are the traits that make the best managers special and what resonated most with Ben?
• How do dressing rooms respond to managerial change? Can you afford to get attached to circumstance and personnel when things can change overnight?
• The importance of experience in a dressing room to demonstrate the consistency and best practice required to succeed at the top level.
• The value of having something to focus on outside of football makes you a better player and teammate.

The perspective of the player:

• What's it like to be transferred? How the process unfolds and how involved are players in the decision making?
• VAR - what do players think of it? A valuable correction tool or passion killer on and off the pitch? 
• Management structures in clubs and the roles of directors of football, chief executives, and heads of recruitment.
• The importance of a trustworthy and capable inner circle. 

Increasing exposure:

• Media pressure and the expectations on moderns footballers to meet preconceived expectations.
• Does this social media world help or hinder players? The creation of new opportunity can also lead to a refocusing of time away from the pitch?
• Amazon All or Nothing: what did the Spurs dressing room think of having the cameras on them 24/7?
• How the demands of a professional still leave you with time to focus on other interests leading to Ben’s opportunity for academic success.

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Liam is the CEO of Lincoln City, who are currently competing in League One of English football, and who at Liam’s own admission, have been overperforming both their budget and performance expectations for years. The running of clubs further down the football pyramid is not easy. They have to operate as far more and sensible businesses rather than billionaire playpens.

Liam not only brings some incredible insight into managing a team in the lower leagues, but as he sits on the board of the English Football League, a much broader perspective on the business of football.

Existing in the same structure as enterprise Premier League, 3pm domestic broadcast blackouts, the financial controls required to protect the future of these most treasured community assets; this was a fascinating insight into the world of a football CEO. 

After a week where the back pages were dominated by the Man City vs The Premier League, this was a real question of how do you protect the product we’ve done so well to create while ensuring top to bottom longevity of the industry?

In today's show, we discuss:

Rise of Lincoln City:

• Small budgets and non-league football status when he joined, how has Liam built a club to compete in the top tiers of English football?
• What are the key things to focus on when running a club?
• The revenue streams that a club must capitalise on to ensure they are able to compete with some of the biggest teams in the league.
• The value of a strong academy; first team feeder or profit driver?
• Bringing the glory back to Lincoln: what does it mean to the community to re-establish a club steeped in history?
• The £1.3m FA Cup run; what did this enable the club to do from an investment standpoint?

Football League Challenges:

• The football industry is unsustainable. Why?
• There needs to be more money that filters down the pyramid to protect teams in the lower tiers. How do you do this?
• The transfer market is the key generator of cash for lower league clubs, but they need Premier League teams to keep buying from English teams to sustain that flow.
• Is the 3pm broadcast blackout an issue or vital to sustainability of the broader football ecosystem in the modern sporting environement?

The Nuclear-Sub vs. a Canoe

• Football is full of inequalities. How do you operate in a market where there is such a spread of wealth and opportunity?
• League One is the eleventh most watched League in Europe, the product is better than ever.
• US investors: The rise of foreign ownership has opened new markets to promote teams and competitions
• How great owners and structured management can be the most important assets of a club regardless of their size.

Leaders in Sport 

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Tyndall Investment Management 

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Today we speak to a man who needs little introduction. Zak Brown is the CEO of McLaren Racing, one of Formula One’s most iconic brands and a team currently undergoing a resurgence as it challenges at the top of both the Drivers and Constructors Championships after years of struggling to match the success of Mercedes and Red Bull.

Turning an organisation round and re-establishing a culture of success is no easy task, and Zak has been under no illusion that to reach the top of one of the most competitive and scrutinised sports in the world, you need to be exceptional. 

F1 is a landscape of marginal gains. What does Zak attribute the success of McLaren to this year and how does he plan to build on this to get his two drivers Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri challenging for the Championship in his cars.

We were honoured to be hosted by the amazing McLaren team at their incredible offices for this recording, and we are so grateful to Zak for giving us his time in one of the busiest parts of his calendar as the season draws to a close. I really hope you enjoy hearing from one of sports' top executives. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Finances of F1:

• ‘Every team is worth at least £1bn’. What has made these businesses so valuable and how have they managed to build better performance off better financial structures?
• Profitability in F1 is now something that spreads across the grid rather than being an outcome enjoyed by the lucky few. How has this happened?
• What are the key revenue streams of an F1 team? What sits centrally with the governing body and what can the teams generate individually?
• How does sponsorship work and who would Zak’s dream partner be for McLaren?
• What has the cost cap done for the sport and why was it necessary to introduce it in the first place?

Developing Great Drivers:

• What has made Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri so effective this year and what makes them stand out from the competition?
• Has Oscar Piastri developed quicker than the team expected and how do you integrate a young driver into the setup without exerting too much pressure?
• Can you have two number one drivers? 
• The importance of building respect and parity in the relationship between executive, garage, and driver.
• How much success is attributed to the driver, and how much is the car?

The Importance of People

• Why does Zak attribute much of the success of the team to the culture of the organisation?
• How do you build a great culture? It is something often talked about but hard to execute and maintain?
• What is it about McLaren that makes it such a great place to work? How do you retain staff to ensure continuity in the team?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

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Tyndall Investment Management 

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We’re back with a bang as we welcome Harlequins CEO Laurie Dalrymple to the show. This is one of English sport’s most historic organisations. Laurie has been in charge of the Premiership Rugby team for over 5 years, establishing them as one of the leading commercial entities in the game while delivering huge success including league titles and European Cup semi-finals on the pitch. 

We’ve had some incredible rugby chats on the show in the past. This is no different. From the viability of teams as sustainable businesses to the development of more players as ‘sporting icons’, Laurie gave us a compelling review of what it means to run a historic sporting organisation fighting to remain at the forefront of sporting entertainment. But can one club achieve real success if the league isn't set up to facilitate it? Our age old ‘rising tide lifts all boats’ discussion. We also recorded this a few hours after the club announced a bumper new deal for Marcus Smith; couldn’t have timed that better.

Before joining Quins Laurie was previously Managing Director of Wolves, overseeing the signings of Ruben Neves, Diogo Jota, and Nottingham Forest’s high flying manager Nuno Espirito Santo. Rugby fans, football fans, there’s something in here for everyone.

Importance of Talent

• Top talent on your roster is essential to building a better commercial vehicle that brands want to interact with.
• From Marcus Smith to Alex Dombrandt, how have Harlequins looked to enhance the profile of their star players to build value into the club.
• Is rugby capable of delivering global superstars? When the sport is all about the importance of the team, is there a place for ‘superstar’ personalities?
• Is there concern that the salary cap and spending restrictions placed on English clubs causes the top talent to move abroad or not come to the Premiership in the first place?
• The importance of legacy and ensuring the players appreciate what has gone before them at this historic club.

Financial Management

• Is Laurie a supporter of the salary cap model and why was it introduced in the first place?
• Can the financial challenges experienced by clubs in recent years be purely attributed to spend on the pitch or are there other factors at play?
• How does the salary cap work? What are the budgets and how can they be spent?
• How have Harlequins built the most valuable club in England with the highest revenues? From enhancing fan experience to trusted brand partners.
• What are the financials of the club? Despite performing very well in the existing environment they are still not profitable.

Rugby vs Football

• What did Laurie bring into rugby from his time as Managing Director at Wolves? Where were there direct crossovers and what was the biggest difference?
• What is a better investment? Buying a rugby club or buying a football club?
• What are the differences between owners in rugby and football? How does the business model change?
• Should football have a salary cap?
• Reflecting on the signings of Neves, Jota, and the Wolves team that returned to the Premier League 

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Today, we are delighted to welcome Alfonso Diaz, CEO of La Liga’s Real Mallorca. We’ve wanted to do a show featuring a Spanish club for a long time, and Mallorca is a truly unique club to do this with. From an ownership structure featuring legendary NBA All Stars Steve Nash and Steve Kerr, to mobilising not just a hugely passionate local island fanbase, but a booming tourist industry, Real Mallorca is re-establishing itself as one of the country’s most prominent clubs.

They have been down to the third division and back over the last ten years, but now after four consecutive seasons in La Liga and a historic run to the Copa del Rey final last year, it’s time to build on the success of the club both on and off the field. 

Alfonso is playing a key role in this from the business side. The importance of media rights, leveraging shall we call it ‘island status’ to drive brand and partnerships, building a new stadium and enhancing fan experience; this is the inside track on how to run a team in Spain. 

In today’s show, we discuss:

Reemergence of Real Mallorca

• The importance of stability. Relegated to the third division of Spanish football in 2017, the club is now off the back of its fourth consecutive year in La Liga. 
• What goes into transforming a club? The role of Alfonso and the leadership team in returning this historic club to the top division.
• New ownership from the US including NBA legends Steve Nash and Steve Kerr, and the value of engaged ownership groups.
• The impact of a memorable run to the Copa del Rey final and building bridges with a passionate fanbase.

Football finance:

• How do clubs make money? 
• The difference in revenue as you move through the divisions; from €5m to €85m and the impact of media rights on a clubs ability to spend.
• The importance of sponsorships and aligning with brands that share the same values.
• What are the opportunities provided by being an island community when driving business growth? 
• How the CVC investment of €2bn in La Liga has allowed the clubs to accelerate projects that would have taken them 10 years to finance.

Developing club brand:

• The challenges with recovering brand value when on the field performance doesn’t match the history of the club.
• Capitalising on a booming island tourist industry; 17 million people visit the island each year.
• What is the value of being the third most engaged with club in Japan on social media and how to create commercial value from international markets.
• Building a new stadium with a focus on experiential to give the fans more than just the 90 minutes of football they watch each weekend.

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today, we are delighted to welcome Matthew Porter. Matthew is the CEO of the Professional Darts Corporation, more commonly known as the PDC, overseeing the sport of darts and it’s  iconic tournaments, including the World Darts Championship at Alexandra Palace. 

Since his appointment in 2008, Matthew has played an integral role in building out the darts calendar, introducing events such as the European Championship and Players Championship Finals, the PDC World Cup of Darts and the European Tour, as well as the implementation of the PDC’s development structure with Qualifying School, the Challenge Tour, and Youth Tour. 

Previously, Matthew was Chief Executive of Leyton Orient Football Club, becoming the youngest CEO in the football league at the age of 26 when appointed. He is also Chairman of Matchroom Multi Sport.

In today’s show we discuss:

World Darts Championship:

• How the flagship event over the Christmas period drives mass engagement for the sport.
• The incredible viewing figures for the 2024 Championship that culminated in over 4m for the final, making it the most viewed sporting event on Sky outside of football.
• The importance of capitalising on attention when you are lucky enough to have it in sport, and ensuring you don’t let the opportunity to drive bigger and better engagement pass by.
• What are the key numbers around the event? What do sponsors want from their partnerships? How do media rights deals incorporate the rest of the calendar?

Celebritisation of players:

• The rise of Luke Littler and how he became the face of the sport. What does it do for the wider darts community?
• This is something that has been happening long before Luke came along. How have the Smith’s and Van Gerwen’s of the world help develop the profile of the sport?
• Does darts have an image problem? Do the professionals now play a key part in encouraging young people to get involved in the sport and realise the opportunity a career in darts can present?
• How has social media been leveraged to engage a range of demographics all tuning into the darts for different reasons? You can’t alienate the core audience but must speak to new fans.
• How do the players work together to positively promote themselves and the sport?

The growth of the sport 

• Darts is a global sport, but it is heavily centred around the UK and Europe. How important is it to take darts to new countries to ensure the sport keeps developing?
• In which countries do the biggest opportunities lie from a participation and viewing perspective and how do you take advantage of this?
• Bringing in new sponsors and making the sport more attractive to industry outside of the ones that normally commercialise in the space will be a key way in expanding the reach of the sport.
• Providing greater financial opportunity through tour funding and prize money will allow for more people to commit to darts and pursue a career to a professional level.

As we talked about at the start of the episode, we will also be highlighting some of the most inspiring people, stories, and organisations across sport once a month on the show. To support the incredible endeavours of Russ Cook (Hardest Geezer!) as he takes on the continent of Africa on foot, please find his social media and fundraising pages in the link below!

linktr.ee/hardestgeezer

Today we speak to a man who has been in and around football for over 40 years. Mark Bowen played over 400 games at the top of English football for the likes of Tottenham, Norwich and West Ham, before transitioning into management as both a head coach and assistant. For much of his management career he has partnered with Mark Hughes, acting as his assistant manager at Man City, Stoke, Southampton, Fulham and QPR. 

Most recently Mark has spent a number of years with Reading, and is currently going through a delicate process around his exit from the club; a conversation for another time. 

However this is something that we have wanted to do for a long time. Quite a lot of our shows fall into the more serious ‘business of sport’ category. Having got to know Mark, this is someone that has seen the inner workings of clubs transacting at the highest level, and has some incredible stories to tell off the back of it. From being at Man City when they were bought by Sheik Mansour and the Abu Dhabi Group to being in the opposing dugout for QPR when Aguero scored THAT goal, this played to the kid in both of us while emphasising the fact that the business of football isn’t always a smooth process.

Kick back and enjoy some proper tales of signings, sackings, and outrageous transfer bidding.

On today’s show we discuss:

The birth of the new Man City:

• Which players did Sheik Mansour want to sign as a statement transfer when he bought the club?
• How do you integrate a load of new players to form a cohesive team when the money is flowing and budgets are virtually endless.
• The incredible transfer story of signing both Vincent Kompany and Pablo Zabaleta after the sale of one key player, and the conversation he had to have with Kompany when he arrived.
• Lionel Messi for £35m? How the club accidentally bid for one of the greatest players ever.
• Why was Mark Hughes fired by the club with the club flying in both the league and cups, and what happens to managers when they get that call?

Tales from Stoke, Southampton, and QPR:

• Turning Stoke into a top performing Premier League club who were able to attract top European talent like Bojan and Shaqiri.
• Overseeing a QPR team struggling for survival in the League with Joey Barton as captain and Tony Fernandes as owner.
• The Man City title win story…from the QPR dugout: what does Mark attribute that memorable Aguero moment to?
• Moving to Southampton and the challenge of managing top teams when there is an agreement to sell players you want to keep.

Football vs Money:

• Harry Redknapp’s reaction to Mark leaving West Ham to sign for a Japanese club…and the number that persuaded him the offer was too good to turn down.
• How to manage your personal life in football when the team takes you away from your family and home. Is it worth it?
• Is it always about the money, or do players need to be incentivised by other things in and around clubs?
• Where was Mark at his happiest both as a player and a manager?

WSC Sports 

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Tyndall Investment Management 

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This week, we’re delighted to welcome the CEO of the RFU, Bill Sweeney, to the show. There’s no hiding from the fact it’s been a hard few months for the organisation and Bill personally. Significant losses reported last year alongside the now infamous LTIP scheme generated an unrelenting flow of negative press and questions of the leadership. This show is about understanding the financial health of the RFU and wider sport. And it’s certainly not as bad as many would have you believe. 

Fueling the almost holistic negativity around Rugby, which we have talked about many times on the show, is not the aim here. We discuss the governance structure, revenue generation & the Allianz deal, LTIP scheme, England team performance, rugby’s drive to remain relevant, and more. Listen to the facts, make your own conclusions. But, hopefully having listened to this, with a better picture of where the game is at and if the RFU is achieving its primary goal of growing the game in this country and beyond.

On today's show we discuss: 

What is the RFU?:

• For all the criticism and focus on the organisation over the last few months, what does the RFU actually do and is it fit for purpose to deliver on its objectives?
• Should the community game and the professional game be governed by the same organisation?
• "It's time for change". What does Bill think needs to happen to improve the governance of rugby in England?
• The fight is on to keep rugby relevant in an increasingly competitive attention economy; what are the RFU doing to develop the game?

The Finances of Rugby:

• How much money does the RFU generate each year and where is that money spent?
• The story of the LTIP payment and why it was such a problem in the broader context of RFU finances.
• From a new stadium naming rights deal with Allianz to a data driven partnership with Apple, what does the partnership roster look like and how much does it generate?
• The financial cycle shows the governing body loses huge numbers in World Cup years. Should this be changed so countries are not financially penalised during the greatest global show of rugby?
• "85% of the revenue generated comes from the mens team playing at The Allianz. That has to change".
• The challenges of getting through Covid and back to business.

Aligning Finances with Performance:

• "England has won four 6 Nations in the last 22 years. That is not acceptable considering the resources and our game".
• How can the RFU play a role in creating global icons out of England rugby players alongside Premiership Clubs?
• The future is bright: how the emerging England rugby teams are showing the value of investing in pathways and are on track for major success.
• Is the structure currently optimised to get the best out of the performance? A comparison with Ireland, France & New Zealand.

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

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This week we welcome Michael Doughty to the show. Michael was a professional footballer for over a decade, playing in the Premier League for QPR followed by a successful Football League career, most notably at Swindon, until his retirement in 2020. He has since set up sustainability focused sporting goods company Hylo Athletics, with the mission to ‘protect the future of running and sport’.

In today’s episode with Michael, we discuss:

Coming through the academy system:

• What is it like to begin a ‘career’ at the age of eight and deal with the constant pressures associated with a performance driven system?
• How did Michael deal with the disappointment of being released by Chelsea and the subsequent transition to QPR?
• What are the sacrifices required to be successful in this environment and what are the longer-term impacts?
• Can more be done to protect individuals who fall out of the academy system and help them secure opportunities elsewhere in football and beyond?

The challenge of finding a sense of belonging in football:

• ‘Footballers are somewhat different but very simple human beings in a great way’. How did Michael manage external perception with his reality?
• Having taken the unusual path of private education and professional football, how did Michael find an identity in two contrasting environments?
• The highs and lows of the loan system; when are opportunities presented and when do they need to be manufactured?
• How did Michael’s relationship with his father Nigel shape his ambitions to become a professional player?

A career at the top of the game:

• What was it like for Michael to achieve his ultimate goal and make his first Premier League appearance at such a young age?
• How to handle disappointment when Michael was told by QPR manager Harry Redknapp that he wasn’t in his plans for the 1st team.
• How did Michael accept the transition from being a Premier League player to playing in League One and Two?
• What are the true economics of football contracts and how difficult is it to manage money as a young player?

Making the transition from football to business:

• How did Michael make the decision to give up his football career and pursue Hylo Athletics full-time?
• What is Hylo and how does it differ from other sports brands in the market?
• The importance of having a clear goal and mission for the team to get behind when tackling sustainability.
• Why is it important for athletes and people of influence to use their platform for good?

This week, we are delighted to welcome Charlie Methven to the show. Charlie is the co-owner and CEO of Charlton Athletic. He was part of the consortium that bought the London club in 2023, and was appointed CEO earlier this year. But as many of you will have seen in the infamous ‘Sunderland til I Die’ Netflix documentary, this isn’t his first dabble in football club ownership. 

He was part of the group that took over Sunderland as they attempted to recover from back to back relegations. What followed was the most transparent insight into what happens when it all goes wrong at a club, both on and off the pitch. You can’t rely on the owner to pick up the tab at the end of every month; you have to build a sustainable business behind the passion and fanfare. That’s not as easy as it sounds. 

It’s the realities of decision making at the highest level, the understanding that universal popularity is impossible, underpinned by what goes into running a sports entity as a business.

We’re delighted to welcome Charlie to the Business of Sport.

On today’s show, we discussed:

Navigating Football Finances:

• What did the business of Sunderland look like when Charlie and the new owners bought the club in 2018?
• How to manage going from £200m a year revenues to £20m.
• Owners cannot be left to pick up the bill. A club has to be sustainable if it wants to progress.
• What does it cost to buy a team outside of the Premier League?
• How are budgets spent? The cost of running the academy, first team, women’s team, behind the scenes staff.
• The problem with relegation clauses; why they’re very important but often hard to implement when attracting the top talent.

The Sunderland Experience 

• Balancing the business objectives of a football club alongside fan expectation can be the hardest job of an owner. How do you navigate it?
• There were ingrained cultural issues at the club. How did Charlie go about changing these?
• Managing a player wage bill that was more similar to a Premier League club than a League One club.
• How did they go about turning a £27m a year loss making club into a breakeven Championship team in just a few years.

Buying Charlton

• What did the new ownership buy Charlton for and how does that compare to the current revenues across the club?
• The unique academy set-up that plays a huge part in the successful running of Charlton, and the strength of the local population that feeds it.
• What are the ambitions of the team over the coming years and how are the ownership looking to achieve them?
• The challenge with running a women’s team in an environment that isn’t set up for success; how the FA missed a golden opportunity to make women’s football great.

Today we are delighted to welcome Manoj Badale. Manoj is the Co-owner of one of the Indian Premier League's most notable franchises, Rajasthan Royals. One of the founding members of the tournament in 2008, the Royals went on to win the first iteration, cementing a special place in franchise cricket history. 

Since then, the IPL has become one of the most followed and valued sports leagues in the world. From preparing meticulously for the iconic auction, to tribalising an infamous national fanbase, this behind-the-scenes account of how the IPL and its franchises are built is not to be missed.  

In today’s show, we discuss:

The value of investing in sport and how to do it successfully:

• Media rights - sport is about investing in eyeballs, and the increasing availability of content on multiple platforms has created huge value across sports and by extension, those that own, operate, and invest in it.
• Salary caps and cost controls - you have to be able to manage your costs to make a sports asset a valuable business proposition and not just a trophy asset.
• Creating a level playing field - if there is an equal chance of victory, the competition is more exciting. If the competition is more exciting, it is likely to attract more interest. ‘The essence of sport is unpredictable outcomes’!
• The existence of a closed league - no promotion or relegation means security of value for a franchise. You can build long-term plans knowing you don’t have the risk of dropping out of the competition. 

The origins of the IPL tournament:

• How did the IPL come to be? Opportunities explored in cricket before this move was made. 
• What did the opportunity to purchase a franchise slot look like? The decision to make an investment in this tournament from day one 
• What did the financials of the opportunity look like and how has that changed over time? 
• One of the biggest concerns at the start was creating a ‘tribal’ fanbase to follow each franchise. Has that been achieved? 

The state of cricket in 2023:

• Tournaments like the IPL have changed the cricketing landscape. How does Manoj view the co-existence of short-form and test-match cricket?
• You need to provide a product that fans want to engage with. Does the IPL provide the blueprint for doing this? Can it be replicated?
• What does proper disruption look like? Is it just creating a new tournament, or is there more to it? 
• The appeal to the players of short form cricket makes it hard to ignore disruptive movements within the game. 

A background in business applied to sport:

• How does Manoj view the Royals alongside his other business ventures? Does he apply the same rules to decision-making, or does emotion play a bigger part? 
• What is the role of an owner? Is there increased pressure on this group in an age driven by media demand? 
• The opportunity to expand a sporting portfolio and the key drivers that investors tend to look for when deciding where they want to put their money. There are plenty of options in 2023!
•  

Today we welcome Nicolas Julia, founder of Sorare, the record breaking platform that blends fantasy sport with digital collectibles. This is a step beyond the fantasy football/F1/rugby you may already be a part of. It’s an open market, providing the chance to show your skills and talent identification to buy, select and trade tangible assets in the form of player cards. They are reimagining sport for the digital age, combining NFT’s, global partnerships, and strategic gameplay to create a fan-owned, athlete connected future of sports entertainment. 

From signing partnerships with the Premier League, NBA, and over 350 teams to generating nearly half a billion dollars of translations on the platform, Sorare has pioneered a new era of fan engagement while empowering athletes with their own data and IP. Serena Williams, Gerard Pique, Kylian Mbappe; they’re all backing the company to deliver on their objective of making every fan an owner or manager. But how did this bridge between digital fandom and the world’s biggest sporting entities form? 

Big numbers, big partners, big ambitions. Nico delivers the thesis of a company at the heart of the modern sports industry.

In today’s show we discuss:

Building a Fantasy Sports Business

• What was the opportunity Nicolas and his partners identified when establishing Sorare?
• Born in the era of cryptocurrency and NFT’s, how has Sorare been able to navigate this highly volatile landscape and become THE fantasy sports platform?
• What does the business model look like? From attracting players to the platform to signing global partnerships with major leagues.
• What has the hardest part of working with very traditional organisations been? How much education is required when demonstrating the value Sorare can bring to a league?

Value of Athlete Partnerships

• Athletes are becoming more and more active in investment markets. How have Sorare leveraged the talent on their cap table to develop the brand and product?
• How did Nico encourage the likes of Gerard Piqué, Serena Williams, Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi to invest in the business? 
• Are agents a blocker to getting access to athletes when it comes to presenting ‘long term’ business opportunities?
• Signing big brands and major rights deals is significantly aided by athlete participation; the story of how Serena Williams won Sorare the NBA contract.

Difference Between US & European Markets

• There is a major difference between the evolution of US and European markets when it comes to fan engagement, technology adoption, and athlete investing models. How has this shown itself in the growth of Sorare?
• Did the approach to winning contracts in the US have to change from the football model implemented in Europe?
• How do Sorare identify and prioritise new markets? The NFL is one of the biggest sports leagues in the world. Is this a target area?
• How does the development of the US betting market impact Sorare, if at all?

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Today, we are delighted to welcome British Olympic legend Dame Jessica Ennis-Hill. An Olympic gold and silver medallist, European champion and 3x world champion, Jess competed at the highest level in the heptathlon for over a decade. Under the pressure and expectation that came with being the face of London 2012, Jess’s gold medal at the Games will forever be one of the most iconic moments in British sporting history.

For all the achievements on the track and in the public eye, there is so much more to her story. From starting a family while still competing, to founding her business, Jennis, developed off the back of her experiences as an athlete, Jess demonstrates how the role of the modern sportsperson is increasingly about far more than records, medals, and trophies. 

In today’s show, we discuss:

The focus of the athlete:

• From starting out in athletics camps to entering elite competition, how the origin story can shape the outcome.
• Coping with pressure: what does it take to retain absolute control over performance when the outside noise gets louder.
• An athlete's relationship with winning and managing the disappointments when the result doesn’t go your way. From winning a first major medal at the 2006 Commonwealth Games to the disappointment of missing the Beijing Olympics through injury.
• London 2012 - from face of the games to winning gold, how did Jess deal with the pressure of public expectation while balancing the commercial duties that surrounded the build up to the Olympics.

Motherhood & athletics:

• Marriage, children, performance: how do you fit all these together while ensuring you don’t let the ball drop? Is it possible or do sacrifices need to be made?
• It is not expected that female athletes have children while competing, so what happens when you have a baby and don’t want to retire? 
• What did Jess have to do to get back the elite level of performance she was so used to, and how did she have to adapt her regime to accommodate the changes she had gone through?
• The sports industry has a lot to learn when understanding the impact of pregnancy on the female body and challenges it presents when returning to elite competition. Why is this?

Modern day role of the athlete:

• The value of the athlete has extended well beyond the field of play. How do professional sportspeople play an extended role in society today?
• How does Jennis seek to empower women at the elite end of sport and in the wider community? Why is it so important to build this education into the industry and beyond?
• The role of social media and exposure to brands is something that plays a significant part in the lives of the most successful athletes in today’s world. Is this something they just have to learn to deal with or do they need additional support to manage effectively?
• Seeking investment in companies around women’s health is a tough business, and educating the financial community on the opportunity to develop women’s healthtech is crucial.

This week, we are delighted to welcome Eni Aluko to the show. Categorizing Eni’s career is a hard one. Former professional footballer, media personality, investor, sporting executive. Eni has been a prominent figure in the sport for nearly 20 years. As a player, she most notably represented Chelsea and Juventus, while winning over 100 caps for England, playing a huge role in establishing the women’s professional game we enjoy so much today. She is a leading pundit for ITV and TNT, while also being the first female to appear on Match of the Day. She has held Sporting Director positions at Aston Villa and Angel City in the US, and is now part of Mercury13, a multi-club ownership group focused on acquiring controlling stakes in professional women’s football teams. 

It’s an impressive list of achievements, but that’s not to suggest it’s been an easy road. From the challenges of accessing football in her youth, struggling to finance a career in football before it became professional, fighting against the vitriol of female pundits in the male game, and coming through a very public discrimination case with the FA, Eni has be instrumental in elevating the profile of women’s football and most importantly, women in football as a whole.

This was a special opportunity to sit down with her and talk through all of this. It is a conversation driven by frank honesty, with some fascinating opinion thrown in on the current footballing landscape for good measure. She openly admits she is not everyone’s cup of tea, but that doesn’t bother her.

In today’s show we discuss:

Accessibility of women’s football:

• The lack of access when Eni was growing up. How did she begin her career and what were academy systems like?
• How financially feasible was it to commit to a career in football before the women’s game became professional?
• How moving to the US was Eni’s most viable route to professional football, and how the WSL has changed that today.
• Having to ‘pay-to-play’ for England: taking time off from a full time job away from football to be able to play for your country.
• Should women’s clubs be integrated into men’s clubs or should they be separate entities like we often see in the US. Brand, attendance and freedom to act independently?

A career away from the pitch:

• Breaking into the media: appearing as the first female pundit on Match of the Day to contracts with TNT and ITV.
• Putting yourself in the public and breaking down the barriers for women to play a major role in the world of sports media across the men’s game.
• Handling the pressures of live TV and the scrutiny that has arisen from social media. How to ignore the noise and focus on the job.
• The concern that women coming into football media are now not performing because they are fearful of making mistakes.
• A passion for football business and governance: ‘Director of Football’ roles at Aston Villa and Angel City and how football clubs are run.
• Investment into women’s football: Mercury13 and the multi club investment model. What are the opportunities and challenges facing the women’s game?

The football landscape today:

• How do transfers work? As an experienced sporting director, what is the relationship like between clubs when negotiating a deal?
• What is Eni’s view on the increasingly prevalent PSR and how they have been executed over the past 6 months?
• Will an independent regulator improve the Premier League?
• Should there be a salary cap introduced to control spending and protect clubs from getting into financial difficulty?
• Declan to Rice to Arsenal. Did City participate to help Arteta get his deal done?
• Communication is key. We need to know what is going within clubs to help the fans engage with their teams.
  

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Today, we are delighted to welcome Tom Cleverley. Tom is a former England, Manchester United, Everton and Watford midfielder. Tom played over 300 league games, winning the Premier League in Sir Alex Ferguson’s final season with Manchester United in 2013. Having retired in the summer, Tom has taken his first steps into management, taking charge of Watford’s U18 team. 

In today’s show, we discuss:

Life as a young footballer:

• Growing up in the Manchester United academy and managing the pressures that come with elite performance and expectation at a young age.
• Tom’s experience being away from home living in ‘digs’ with other families while he trained with the youth team.
• The key attributes beyond outstanding talent that play a significant role in determining which young players make it to the first team.
• Being in and around world class players and management, and how that lifts the levels of everyone at a club.
• Motivations vs money: how to ensure you keep your focus and don’t get distracted by the outside noise that comes with being a professional.

Balancing performance, relationships, and expectations:

• What it was like to earn the opportunity to play for Manchester United and win the Premier League with Sir Alex.
• How Sir Alex shaped the teams he managed and had the ability to continually achieve unprecedented results and drive standards.
• The learnings that you pick up when developing as a player stay with you and shape the way you approach dressing rooms and in Tom’s case, management.
• What goes into getting transfers done? The process a player and their representatives go through to get a move and that factors at play in influencing decisions.
• How honest conversations with Van Gaal and Koeman ensured Tom knew when the right time to move had come.
• Playing for England: what does it mean to players who get called up and how does the team gel when together?

Beyond the pitch:

• The importance of having a great agent: how an influential team and stable support network is crucial to your off-field development.
• Managing your finances and preparing for a future beyond the game.
• Preparing for management and utilising the experiences learnt as a player to develop emerging talent.
• Tom’s love for the game and how important it is to be in a place where you feel confident in your ability to deliver results.

Another first class Football League CEO in the studio this week. Liam Dooley has been in charge of Shrewsbury town, League one’s longest serving club, since 2023. Operating on the smallest budget in the division, balancing good business with competitive performance is not easy.

Shrewsbury have had 10 consecutive years at this level, but are currently bottom of the league having lost their last four games. But, with their latest accounts showing they have halved their annual losses, the business side has impressed. With a top manager like Gareth Ainsworth in charge on the pitch, the fight is on to escape relegation and attract new investment. We’re back again; how do you build great business off the pitch and win on it? 

In today’s show we discuss:

The Business of a League One Club:

• Can a football club be good business? 
• Has the profile of football club owners now changed so much that ‘local’ owners are no longer able to meet the financial needs of clubs?
• What is the correlation between spending the most and achieving on the pitch the lower down the leagues you go?
• Why did Liam focus so much attention on reducing the club’s financial losses in a short space of time and what are the wider impacts of cutting costs?

Shrewsbury Town: Overachievers?

• Shrewsbury Town are the longest serving club in League One; how has a club with a small budget managed to achieve consistency in a financially driven market.
• How can you be successful when you have the lowest budget in the league? 
• With the club currently looking for investment, what is the profile of owner that’s most attractive to the club and their fans?
• How has Gareth Ainsworth come into the club and created a positive environment even if results aren’t going Shrewsbury’s way?

“Build a Club not a Team”:

• It is important to create a culture in the club that is more than just the men’s team on the pitch for 90 minutes every Saturday. How do you do this?
• Why the women’s team is separate from the operational running of the club, and where does women’s football sit in the future plans of Shrewsbury?
• Leveraging the academy to create future stars for the first team and to become an additional line of business when clubs buy your talent.
• What happens to the club if it gets relegated? Are there things that have to be sacrificed or put on hold?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

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Today, we are delighted to welcome David Buttress. David was the co-founder and CEO of Just Eat, launching the UK business in 2006 and taking it from startup to Europe’s largest technology stock market floatation in a decade in 2014. In the world of sport, David is the owner the of Welsh United Rugby Championship club, Dragons, as well as acting as Non Executive Director of the Welsh Rugby Union’s Professional Rugby Board. 

It’s a crucial time for club rugby. The international game, underpinned by tournaments like the Rugby World Cup and 6 Nations, is hugely successful. The club game is far more precarious. Investment, structure, packaging, distribution, governance: these are all issues that need addressing and David delivers as honest and transparent a view on what needs to be done to ensure the sports long term future. 

In today’s show, we discuss:

What makes rugby special:

• ‘Rugby is one of the last gladiatorial sports’ - there is so much to love about the game that needs to be protected and utilised to safeguard the future of the sport
• The passion of the fans is unrivalled but are the tournaments and clubs structured correctly to maximise the value of audience?
• International vs. club rugby - why is it hard to translate the success of the international game to the domestic leagues?
• Having the opportunity to own a club that means so much to its community is a privilege and the drive to achieve success is enhanced when the ownership aligns strategy on the pitch with development off it.

The problems rugby faces:

• The competition for eyeballs has never been greater and the sport needs to innovate and develop more appealing offerings and products to stay relevant.
• The governance of the game is laborious and too slow in its decision making. What needs to change at the top of the sport to ensure opportunities to create value are not missed? Are the right people managing rugby?
• Packaging and distribution - utilise media more effectively to drive engagement and create a celebritization of the players? Sport after all is increasingly creatively packaged media.
• Player welfare is an issue and the game needs to continue to work to provide a safer environment for its players.
• The finances of the game depend too much on the willingness of ownership groups to invest in the clubs they own. Can a more sustainable and reliable model be created?

The future of the sport:

• What can be done across the clubs and the leagues to create a more engaging product at club level?
• CVC have spent a lot of money investing in the rugby ecosystem. What could they or another investor do to drive commercial and participatory development?
• Does more budget need to be allocated to off field development as well as creating more value on it, and if so what are the priorities for investment?
• Building a team behind the scenes capable of driving new revenue streams across content and partnerships is crucial but doesn’t exist in the majority of organisations.

Miguel is one of the sports industry’s leading commercial agents. Mbappe, Neymar, Beckham, Mourinho, Ricciardo; Miguel has been involved with all of them. This is the side of the sports industry we don’t hear about. Yet this is the side that drives more business than any other. 

Having worked directly for Kylian Mbappe’s family office, and then for some of the worlds biggest agencies like CAA and Kin, Miguel’s experience of capitalising on the global profiling of sport’s biggest stars brings to life the art of the commercial deal. 

How do you source a sponsorship? Who are the most in demand athletes? Who has capitalised on their profile the best, and who has struggled to do so.

This is a conversation unlike any other we have had on the show. If you want to know the inside track on the business world behind the world of the athlete, this is a conversation for you.

On today’s show we discuss:

Athlete representation:

• What is the role of the off field agent? 
• Neymar, Mbappe and many more; how has Miguel worked with the top talent in sport to build their brand off the pitch?
• How is it different representing athletes in football compared to an individual sport like Formula One or tennis?
• Commercial deals are a major part of modern sport. What is the process like to source and deliver commercial partnerships for the biggest talent in the industry?
• What is the makeup of the behind the scenes team that top athletes now have to work with? 
• Who would Miguel most like to work with?

Positive/Negative brand associations

• How do you decide if a particular brand is the right partnership to sign for an athlete?
• How important is it for athletes to know what their image and profile is looking to become off the field?
• What would an example of a negative brand association be? Is it company or industry driven?
• What factors come into play when negotiating access to a sports person as part of the brand deal?
• What are the best deals Miguel has been a part of?
• Is the demand on athletes to fulfil their commercial obligations manageable?

Changing sports landscape

• How is the industry changing with its approach to commercial partnerships?
• Which athletes are proving the most sought after in the modern sporting landscape, and who needs to work harder to build a stronger profile.
• Some top players prefer to stay out of the commercial limelight. What does this mean for them?
• Will we see more productised business endeavour to replicate the CR7/RF type commercial agreements?

Leaders in Sport 

https://leadersinsport.com/sport-business/leaders-events/leaders-week-london/

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today, we are delighted to welcome Maheta Molango to the show. As Chief Executive of the PFA, Maheta has one of the biggest jobs in football, leading the union that represents 55,000 current and former professional players in the UK. 

A former professional footballer for the likes of Atletico Madrid and Brighton, Maheta has been involved in all aspects of the game. Before taking up his current role, Maheta trained as a lawyer while finishing his professional career, working both in and out of the industry while also spending a number of years as CEO of the Spanish club Real Mallorca. 

Taking us through one of the most unique and impressive professional journeys in the sport, this is an incredibly open and honest conversation with one of the most influential people in football.

In today’s show, we discuss:

From player to executive:

• A self-professed journeyman on the pitch, how did the experience set Maheta up for a career after football?
• How the opportunities for education for players are now more available, but the time to do studies away from sport has become harder to find.
• The importance of setting yourself up for life after football and grounding your future opportunities in proper education. How do footballers currently do this?
• The challenge of moving into an industry away from sport and building a network for legal firm Baker Mckenzie in the industry when there was no existing traction.
• Appreciating the transition is not always smooth and you have to strike while the iron is hot. You are in the public eye when playing, but when retired you become another ex-professional alongside many others.

The role of the PFA:

• What does the organisation do? Who does it support? How do they look to help players and their families?
• The challenge of having a huge number of people to support with a limited pool of resources. What can be done and needs to be done to improve this and therefore improve the support network for players?
• How is the organisation funded, and what control does it have in the wider footballing ecosystem to influence policy, strategy, and decision-making?
• The PFA Business School - how the organisation set up a number of opportunities for members to attain an education and apply that to their life beyond football.
  

Football’s biggest challenges:

• What are the things that concern Maheta the most in football today, and what vulnerabilities do the PFA have to provide support for?
• Overcoming the huge challenge of fixture congestion and the impact that has on players' health and wellness.
• Maheta’s belief that the overcrowding of the football calendar risks reducing the quality of the product and damaging the reputation of some of the biggest competitions.
• Trying to disband the often unfair belief that footballers are not smart enough or aware of their role in society. Today’s players are highly in tune with their surroundings and often do a huge amount of work away from the pitch that goes unrecognised. 
• What is Maheta most proud of when looking at the developments made within the community under his tenure so far?

This week, we’re delighted to welcome Marcos Galperin to the show. Marcos is the founder of Latin American e-commerce giant Mercado Libre. Last year, he bought the Miami Sharks, a Major League Rugby expansion franchise, combining a lifelong passion for the game with asset ownership in a high potential league and market.

There are some crazy numbers in the world of sports valuations, and the opportunity to identify value where it is not yet maximised is becoming increasingly hard. Can rugby make it in the US? Hosting the 2031 Men’s Rugby World Cup is a huge opportunity to build community and engagement in the sport, but a strong domestic league needs to underpin the temporary arrival of a major tournament, and that is what Marcos is looking to help create in Miami. 

Understanding the motivations of owners is crucial to helping fans establish a deep relationship with their teams. This is the story of why one of the tech industry's best entrepreneurs went all in on franchise rugby. 

In today’s show we discuss:

Rugby in the US:

• Why the 2031 Rugby World Cup taking place in the US is a huge opportunity to build a strong community required to sustain attention on the game.
• Major League Rugby is an emerging league with increasing potential to challenge more established sporting organisations in the country; what needs to happen to grow the league?
• What are the key revenue drivers behind teams in the league? Does the league negotiate and broker deals or do franchises have the opportunity to do so at a local level?
• Miami Sharks has a strong South American following and community. Who are their fans? What do they want to see when they go to games?

Running a franchise:

• What is the cost of entry to buy an expansion franchise in Major League Rugby?
• Sports ownership can often be an ego play rather than financially driven business endeavour. What was the motivation behind Marcos purchasing the team?
• It is crucial to form an identity to be able to take out to market and sell to partners looking to work with you. How have Miami done this to build a roster of sponsors many MLS and NFL teams would covet?
• How important has it been to have the right people in place behind the scenes to execute the vision of the ownership?
• MLR has a salary cap to ensure overspending and subsequent financial mismanagement can’t happen. Is this good or bad?

The global profile of rugby:

• Why the need for a global league aligned to the international calendar has never been greater.
• There are not many global stars in rugby, and rugby clubs need to encourage their players to build and leverage their brand to boost the sport as well as the wider ecosystem.
• Riding the Miami wave; how the growth of Inter Miami and the ‘Messi effect’ has created a buzz in the area to take advantage of. 
• The social value of rugby is huge! Why Marcos thinks his time playing the game was more valuable than his traditional education in preparing him for life in the business world. 
• What would Marcos do if he was in charge of World Rugby?

This week we are delighted to welcome Gary Rowett to the show. Gary has managed over 500 games working at some of the most historic clubs in English football, and played at the highest level with 381 appearances in the Premier League and EFL. 

Much of his career has been spent managing across the Football League with the likes of Birmingham, Derby, Stoke, Millwall, Burton Albion. One of the most popular and respected men in the game, he gives a detailed overview of the pressures of management, how to bring the best out of players, why he turned down the chance to manage in the Premier League, and the importance of accountability. 

It can often be a thankless task being a manager. It takes a specific type of character to ride the highs and lows and block out the noise. Then it’s the need for heightened empathy alongside a streak of pretty ruthless decision making. It’s not easy being a manager. Gary’s is a fascinating career and it’s far from over. 

On todays show we discuss:

From Player to Manager:

• The similarities and differences between being part of a dressing room and running one.
• Does managing a team that you played for make the job easier? How do you build a relationship with the fans?
• What part of the transition is the hardest to make and how do you get that first job opportunity?
• The essential skills of a manager; what can you not do without if you want to manage at the top level?

Gary’s Club Management:

• Burton Albion, Birmingham, Derby, Stoke, Millwall; the pressures of managing some of England’s biggest teams.
• There isn’t much regret in Gary’s management career, but his time at one club did not go how he wanted. Who?
• What is it like to manage a club that has just been relegated to the Championship and has to adapt from the Premier League?
• Who were the best owners Gary worked with and what makes a great club leader? 
• What does Tom Brady bring to Birmingham?

A Manager's Decision Making:

• Why being a manager is a sales job; you have to make the players believe in what you are doing. Get them to buy into it!
• How do you leave players out of a team or squad and still keep them motivated?
• What is the balance to find between youth and experience?
• Taking inspiration from Klopp, Guardiola, Ancelotti & Simeone.
• If you're lucky enough to choose whether to take a job or not, what are the factors to take into account?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners:

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today is the milestone 50th episode and we have a guest to match it. Édourard Mendy is a Champions League and AFCON winner. He won FIFA's ‘The Best’ and UEFA Goalkeeper of the year award in 2021. He holds the record for the joint most clean sheets in a single Champions League season. He went from nearly giving up the football dream in a French job centre with a baby on the way to winning the CL with Chelsea in 7 years. And now he's playing alongside Mahrez, Firmino and Toney at Al-Ahli. 

Away from the pitch, he is building a reputation as a passionate investor looking to translate the success he has achieved on the pitch to help founders build great businesses. As Édou states, the move to Saudi has also been about facilitating the work he can do away from the pitch as well as being part of an exciting new football landscape; ‘it’s not just about football and not just about money’.

This is one of sport’s great stories; a meteoric rise to the top that had to endure countless challenges to achieve Édou’s reality today. From his early days in France to developing football in West Africa, with a big helping of his time at Chelsea, we get a rare insight into the inner workings of a top tier footballer. 

On today’s show we discuss:

Origins of a Champions League Winner:

• How did Mendy get his break in France? What is it like to work your way from the bottom?
• What happened when Édou decided to look at a career outside of football because he wasn’t making it in football?
• You have to be careful who you put your trust in; when agents promise opportunities that don’t materialise.
• The role family and humble beginnings have played in keeping him grounded as success has quickly come to him.
• Signing for Reims and then Rennes which paved the way for his move to Chelsea.

The Chelsea Story:

• From getting a call from goalkeeping coach Christophe Lollichon to eventually signing his contract; the Chelsea transfer story.
• How long does it take for clubs to agree to a transfer? What did Marina Granovskaia say was unique about his move?
• What role did Frank Lampard play in helping Édou establish himself as Chelsea’s number one keeper?
• What happens when a manager changes at a club? From Lampard to Tuchel…
• The inside story of Chelsea’s iconic Champions League win in Porto. Why Tuchel wanted to play on Chelsea’s underdog status.
• From Champions of Europe and the World to the fringes of the squad; where did it go wrong?

Moving to Saudi Arabia and what comes next:

• Why this move is not just about football and not just about money; what are the considerations that influence transfers?
• ‘It is important to feel wanted and I felt that from Al Ahli’. How a conversation with the CEO convinced Édou that this was the club for him.
• What is most exciting about the emerging league and how is the country preparing for it’s World Cup hosting duties?
• Playing in a dream team with Mahrez, Toney and Firmino and the star power of the Saudi League.
• When an athlete becomes an investor; how Édou is building a profile for himself as an investor and what is the value of athletes bringing their expertise to emerging companies?
• How establishing football in West Africa and Senegal in particular is and will always be a key part of his focus.

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

This week we welcome Steve Bruce to Business of Sport. Steve played over 700 games for some of England’s biggest teams, most notably captaining Manchester United in the 90’s, winning multiple league titles and FA cups. After retirement, Steve made the move into management, taking charge of over 1000 games with the likes of Newcastle, Aston Villa, Birmingham and Wigan.

In todays episode, we discuss:

Life as a player:

• How Steve found his way from early beginnings at Gillingham to the heights of Manchester United.

• How did contracts differ from what we see in the market today, and what did the finances look like?

• Sir Alex Ferguson: what made the former Manchester United manager so special and what was it like to play under him?

• How to captain the likes of Eric Cantona and Ryan Giggs, and what did the team do to support them?

• Steve’s leadership style and the importance of managing the individual in a team environment. 

The move into management:

• How did Steve leverage the experiences as a player to become a successful Premier League Manager?

• After four jobs in two years, Steve talks through the importance of finding stability and consistency at Birmingham.

• The difference between playing with big personalities and managing them, and how to get the best out of the ‘maverick’ player.

• Managing up and down and the relationship with the owner: from falling out with Simon Jordan to being coveted by Dave Whelan.

• The hiring and firing process: what actually happens in the crazy employment cycle of a football manager?

 A life in football:

• How did Steve balance a young family with the demands of professional football?

• From supporting Newcastle to managing them through a difficult time in the club’s history. How did that impact Steve and his family?

• The responsibility associated with ensuring players reach their full potential, and the biggest reasons some don’t manage to.

• What is next? 40+ years and not stopping yet, what is in store in the future? 

Today, we are delighted to welcome Tom Beahon. Tom is the co-founder and co-CEO of Castore, the premium British sportswear brand which he runs with his brother Phil. 

Having started his career as an aspiring professional footballer at Tranmere Rovers, Tom's love of sport and passion for business led him to setting up Castore with his brother. They currently produce the kits for the England Cricket Team, Aston Villa, Red Bull Racing, and Rangers Football Club to name a few. 

From convincing Andy Murray to both invest in and promote the brand, to recently completing a £140m funding round to drive the next stage of growth for the business, Tom talks us through their incredible journey over the past seven years and why it is so important there is a British sportswear brand competing at the top table.

In today’s show, we discuss:

Building a sportswear brand:

• Where did it all begin? How did the concept and vision for Castore get off the ground to become the company it is today?
• How the lack of British sportswear companies to compete with Nike, Adidas and Puma provided an opportunity to create a unique and modern sportswear company.
• From giving up careers in football and cricket to go on this journey, to taking jobs in finance to fund the first few years, what did risk and sacrifice look like to Tom and Phil?
• Figuring out a strategy to catch the attention of their initial customer profile, ‘The Goldman Sachs Man’. 

The value of partnerships:

• To make it big, there needed to be a big name: the story of attracting Andy Murray and getting him excited about the business, the ambition, and the product!
• A move into team partnerships and kit manufacturing: what did this look like from a business perspective and how did it change the demands on the business?
• The focus of the major apparel companies on the ‘super league’ teams meant there was an opportunity to unlock a huge amount of value for organisations who were not receiving the care and attention from their current providers.
• ‘If we’re two hours late launching a shirt, bad things will happen’. The pressure of servicing the sports industry is unlike any other in the fashion industry. 
• From the surreal moment of watching England walk out in the Ashes wearing Castore kits, to being there when Rangers won their SPL title, how the partnerships between brand and team develop.
  

Competing with the biggest brands:

• Nike, Adidas, Puma, New Balance dominate this market. Why is there not a British brand to compete at the top table?
• Understanding where to focus your strategy to break into the market and carve out your niche is important at the start, but hard to stick to when opportunities arise. How crucial is it to stick to your core vs. stretch into multiple new areas?
• How the growth of Nike and Adidas in particular has shaped the sportswear industry and influenced companies attempting to disrupt the ecosystem.
• With the largest brands placing so much focus on the biggest global sports assets, there is is lot of opportunity left behind for companies similar to Castore. Can you use this as a platform to compete for the biggest deals while providing a first class service to each partner?

This week we are delighted to welcome Claire Williams to the show. For nearly a decade, Claire served as the Deputy Team Principal of Williams Racing, one of the most iconic teams in F1 history. As the daughter of the legendary Sir Frank Williams, you could say she had the weight of her family’s legacy on her shoulders, but she forged her own path with courage, tenacity, and a relentless drive to succeed. 

Claire's journey wasn’t just about steering a team through the competitive and challenging landscape of Formula 1. It was about breaking barriers in a male-dominated environment, changing the landscape of a sport in need of regeneration, and navigating the requirements to perform at the highest level while fighting to keep her family’s team alive.

On today’s show, we discuss:

Building a Formula One team:

• The Frank Williams story: how did he build on the most iconic teams in Formula One history?
• Work/life balance in the sport is very hard. You have to make sacrifices to become the best. What is the impact of dedicating yourself completely to the perseverance of perfection?
• How has racing changed over the years? From early beginnings to becoming one of the most sought after commercial and sponsorship assets in global sport.
• What are the key revenue streams that fund Formula One teams?

Taking the reigns:

• What was it that led to Claire taking the controls of the team and how did she go about implementing her own ideas in delivering success to Williams?
• The challenge of finding your own voice when the legacy of your predecessor is so prominent.
• The changing role of a Team Principal; how has the job developed and what are the modern TP’s like Toto Wolff and Christian Horner doing differently to the likes of Frank?
• The need for sponsorship dollars. Frank Williams turned down a $40m title sponsorship when he was in charge because he had another one for $50m. Did Claire have the same demand for access to the Williams brand?
• The F1 meritocracy celebrated and favoured the best teams while leaving the others struggling to fund themselves. How did this change?

The Business of a team:

• It is a very expensive sport to operate in. Are Formula One teams worthwhile and valuable investment opportunities?
• The mediafication of the sport has brought in a wealth of new opportunities for the key components to make money, but what do the teams get paid for and what goes straight to the F1 governing body?
• How much does it cost to pay drivers and the key members of staff that run the organisations?
• Value in kind deals can be an excellent way to drive value for new partners. What do these look like?
• The story around the sale of Williams and why it had to happen.

Our Partners:

Leaders in Sport 

https://leadersinsport.com/sport-business/leaders-events/leaders-week-london/

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Welcome to the business of Non-League football. Beneath the top four tiers of the revered English football pyramid sits a whole other football world; hundreds of teams, players, coaches, owners playing week in week out to climb the ladder. Jamie Vardy, Ollie Watkins, Jarrod Bowen, Tyrone Mings have all played non-league football. ‘Welcome to Wrexham’ recently storied the quality that exists and the difficulty in getting out of it.

I’ve wanted to do a show focused on this from day one, so I’m delighted to welcome Eastbourne Borough owner Simon Leslie to the show. This is the fully unfiltered reveal on what it is like to buy, run and try to develop a club outside the core of English football. The opportunity is huge, but the challenges are significant. There’s no soft touch here, as we welcome Simon to the Business of Sport.

In today’s show we discuss:

Buying a Non-League Team:

• What was it about Eastbourne Borough that attracted you to the opportunity when you had looked at clubs in the Football League?
• What is unique about buying a club in Non-League and what was the financial requirement to not just purchase the asset but also to run it?
• Owners now have to go through a rigorous process to check they have the resources to buy a football club…or do they? Is the FA’s ‘Fit & Proper’ test fit for purpose?  
• “There’s an element of stupidity (in football ownership)”. Why do successful business people continue to plough their hard earned money into football clubs?

Can you Make Money?:

• What are the economics of a Non-League club, from no media rights to a brutally competitive commercial landscape?
• How do you stand out from the rest to drive more eyeballs and more traffic through your club? 
• The importance of content in a modern sporting landscape; how Eastbourne have become the envy of many far bigger clubs with a cutting edge, multi platform media offering.
• What needs to happen to drive more revenue opportunity in football? 

Football Governance Fit for Purpose?:

• How much money do Non-League teams receive from the Premier League and EFL, and what changes could be introduced to deliver a better financial outcome?
• Are the right people running football in England?
• Owners have to do more to drive change; why the responsibility doesn’t just sit on the individuals at the top of centralised football.
• Do the people at the top of Women’s football believe in their own product? 
• “I am an unofficial spokesperson for Non-League football because they’re not doing it themselves and they deserve more”

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Scan.com

https://uk.scan.com/

After amazing shows with a number of CEO’s across the football industry, we’re today venturing into the lowest of the English Football League’s with current League Two promotion chasers Port Vale. Matt Hancock has been CEO of this historic club since January. Having been relegated from League One in his first few months in charge, it’s fair to say the learning curve has been steep.

But these are the shows we love to do. It’s proper business, not propped up by the billions of international ownership. Understanding how to run a sustainable company that is not eternally dependent on owner financing while constantly trying to win on the field is so difficult. Then add the fact that almost every decision is reviewed under a microscope generally with the benefit of hindsight, you do sometimes think who would take this on.

But then you remember that alongside these challenges comes the privilege of looking after the thing that can give people their greatest enjoyment. The lower down the football pyramid you go, being a CEO is about building an environment to sustain a community’s most valued asset. This is a compelling reveal on how you do just that.

On today’s show we discuss:

Becoming a CEO in Football:

• How did Matt come to take charge of one of English Football’s oldest clubs?
• From building community to winning on the pitch, what are the key focuses of clubs the lower down the Football League you go?
• How important is the relationship between executive and owner?
• It’s about more than results; why Matt believes his job is to ensure those working at the club know that success can be about more than 3 points on a Saturday. 
• How to ensure you keep level headed, not getting too high on the highs and too low on the lows.

Handling Relegation:

• Port Vale got relegated from League One in the first few months of Matt’s tenure as CEO. How did he make sure the club recovered to build for the new season?
• The importance of a great manager in the lower leagues; why Darren Moore has been crucial to the recent development of Port Vale.
• What attracts players to a club that goes beyond just being paid the most?
• The financial impact of relegation and trying to move away from a reliance on owner funding to ensure sustainability.

Working for the Fans & Community:

• Is it better to over communicate with fans and open yourself up to increased scrutiny or reduce what you share and lose connectivity?
• How Port Vale has become an intrinsic part of its community and the importance of the club to the local area.
• The challenge of ensuring you don’t make decisions based on fan sentiment; how to remain neutral and not be influenced by emotion.
• The role of lifelong Vale fan Robbie Williams!
• Communicating spend away from the pitch on infrastructure and development is important to create an understanding around the need to build value in the ‘business’ of the club.

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Jonathan is a board member at Tottenham. We’ve covered ownership, management, players, but what happens in the boardroom of football's biggest clubs? Brought in by Daniel Levy, and a lifelong fan with a background in investment and technology, Jonathan brings the breadth of experience and perspective that’s increasingly valuable in football.

How much of a meeting is focused on business strategy and how much is performance? How do you measure success? These are the questions we don't get an insight into and fans want to understand, and Jonathan’s role at one of the biggest clubs in the country provides a fascinating insight into the behind the scenes world of football governance. 

On today's show, we discuss:

What goes on in the boardroom:

• How much of the conversation in board meetings is short term performance related vs long term strategy? 
• A balance between good business and winning on the field can be hard to find. Why? 
• The new stadium was a major part of developing Spurs into a global football power. What opportunities have been created by having one of the best stadiums in the game?
• Work in the community is a major part of the club’s social value. Why is this so important to teams?
• What makes Daniel Levy such a good businessmen and in turn operator of a football club?

Tottenham’s global brand

• Value of the Premier League to an international audience and the brands it has been able to create out of its clubs.
• Having an international reach puts pressure on the schedule to travel and take games to places like Australia and South Korea.
• It’s estimated Tottenham have over 200 million fans globally. How do clubs measure this and what do they do to maximise the experience of supporting the club for all fans? 
• Growth of the game in the US has provided incredible opportunity to add further value and audience to the League. 

Jonathan’s role and motivations

• A lifelong fan with a huge passion for football, how Daniel Levy asked him to join the board and be a part of the decision making setup.
• How a background in investment and tech made him the perfect person to bring a new set of skills and perspectives to the board.
• Football clubs, much like any business today, need to think like technology companies. What does this mean?
• Building the right infrastructure behind the scenes is a key part of establishing success. How has the board recruited across performance and operations?

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

This week, ahead of the Grand National on Saturday, we are delighted to welcome Nevin Truesdale to the show. Nevin is the CEO of The Jockey Club, the largest commercial horse racing organisation in the UK. It owns 15 of the country’s most famous racecourses, including Cheltenham and Aintree, as well as thoroughbred horse breeding farm ‘The National Stud’ and land management company ‘Jockey Club Estates’.

Horse racing is the UK’s second most attended sport, with nearly 6 million people visiting racecourses each year. It is a sport steeped in history and tradition, but has come under fire in recent years for not embracing change, appealing to younger audiences, and of course well documented animal welfare concerns. 

Nevin, who has been Chief Executive since 2020, gives us a very honest account of the challenges the sport faces, but at the same time, all of the positive steps being made and the developments successfully implemented to counter some of the critique levelled at racing. 

On the show, we discuss:

The success and history of racing:

• Where does racing sit in the UK and global sporting ecosystem in popularity and participation?
• The difference between jump and flat racing.
• What is the role of The Jockey Club? How has it influenced the sport over the last few hundred years and what is the organisation doing to ensure the sport continues to move forward.
• How is racing governed, and is it set up to be able to modernise and develop it’s proposition in this competition for eyeballs and attention?
• The importance of racecourses to local economies and an increasingly varied use of venues for commercial, events and social purposes.
• The international growth of the sport and the opportunities and challenges that presents to racing in the UK.

Challenging negative perceptions:

• Animal welfare issues have been a continuous issue for racing in recent times. How legitimate are these concerns and what is being done to improve safety in the sport.
• Accessibility and exclusivity. How The Jockey Club and the wider sport are tackling critiques around elitism and a lack of diversity, and how this is not an accurate representation of the sport.
• The fight to win the argument for reasonable opinion: how you are unlikely to change the minds of the most passionate critics, but it is the people in the middle that need to be convinced.
• How removing restrictions around dress codes and better cross platform communications can make the sport more appealing to the younger demographic.
• The importance of betting to racing, and the controls put in place to ensure people can participate in this side of the sport safely.

Media rights and content:

• How racing’s deal with ITV brings over 100 days of live racing to fans in the UK and continues to ensure the biggest events remain free-to-air.
• The opportunity to build relationships with ‘new media’ platforms, from social media companies to OTT platforms, and what that adds to the offering.
• The imminent release of a behind the scenes documentary in the summer will bring a new level of access to the world of racing and how it operates.
• Social media success has made some of the content produced a new staple in sporting TikTok and short form content. What is the impact of this on attracting new fans?

This show is brought to you by SeatUnique, the ultimate destination for elevating live events into unforgettable experiences. 

Visit seatunique.com to discover some of the incredible packages they have to offer across some of the biggest sport, media and entertainment events.

This week's show is a very special one, as we welcome Lina Nielsen to the Business of Sport.

Lina is a 400m hurdler for Great Britain. She was recently a member of the bronze winning relay team in the World Indoor Championships in Glasgow, alongside her sister, and is about to compete in a series of qualifiers to reach this summer's Olympic Games in Paris. 

But there is a unique addition to Lina’s story that shone a light on her career in 2022. At the World Championships in Oregon, she announced he has been living with multiple sclerosis since she was 17. Multiple sclerosis is a lifelong condition that affects the brain and nervous system. Symptoms include double vision, muscle weakness and loss of sensation and coordination. The condition affects everyone in different ways. 

The fact she pushed through a relapse (when someone with MS experiences a flare up of symptoms) to participate in Oregon is an amazing story in itself. To be one step away from competing in the Olympics is another. 

For many reasons this is a special interview, and a unique spin on ‘The Business of Sport’. MS is something that has impacted mine and Harry’s life. Our mother was diagnosed with the illness 15 years ago. It is something we are hugely passionate about supporting and spreading the word on, so it is a real pleasure to welcome Lina Nielsen to the show.

We discuss:

Elite competition:

• What does the day in the life of an elite athlete look like? What are the priorities and key focuses essential to high performance?
• Qualifying for an Olympics - what does the road to Paris involve and how much competition is there for places on the team?
• Small margins are the difference between success and failure. New qualifying times have made it harder than ever to make it.
• Financing a career in the sport. Funding is hard to come by; the importance of brand partnerships to ensure you can commit to a full time career.
  

MS diagnosis and Athletics:

• Announcing to the world that Lina had MS was not an easy decision. Why did she decide the 2022 World Championships was the time to tell her story?
• How does multiple sclerosis impact the body and what challenges does it present to someone trying to make it in professional sport.
• The mental hurdles to overcome once the news was out in the open. Why did Lina fear critique and backlash from the community because of her achievements?
• When you have a story like this, your profile changes. How to deal with a new attention from the public and fellow athletes while still focusing on your performance. 

Role of the Athlete

• There is social responsibility that extends beyond performance in today’s society. Athletes have the ability to influence and inspire.
• The role social media can play in reaching fans, giving them access to your story, and bringing them into your world, offers endless opportunity.
• How being a figurehead or leader for something can be intimidating, but at the same time it can empower you with the support of an entire community.

This show is brought to you by MS-UK, the charity supporting all those affected by multiple sclerosis. Visit https://ms-uk.org/ to find out more about their amazing work within the MS community. 

It’s the start of Euro 2024 this week. To celebrate, we are bringing you one of the stories of the tournament, before it’s even started. Georgia made history early in the year when they qualified for their first ever major tournament, an occasion which saw much of the population on the streets celebrating this longed for achievement. The team put together behind the scenes played a key role in achieving this. 

David Webb, an Englishman without international coaching experience but with over 20 years working in football, was brought in by manager Willy Sagnol to be his assistant. A truly unique approach to football and sports psychology, his qualities offered an increasingly valuable opportunity to maximise performance on and off the pitch.

This isn’t a show focused on franchise values and wage budgets. It’s a different ‘business’ of sport. From the individual perspective, it’s how you can go from scout to sporting director to manager to international football. From a broader perspective, it’s the impact of sport on a nation, what it means to wear the national badge, and how you prepare for a major tournament.

In today’s show:

Georgia & Euro 2024:

• How did David come to be the assistant manager of Georgia, helping them qualify for their first ever major international tournament?
• What does this achievement means to the population and country as a whole?
• The importance of manager Willy Sagnol and what the management team have implemented to get the best out of the playing squad.
• A recap of that incredible night in Tbilisi when qualification was confirmed; occasions that only sport can create.
• What is success to Georgia and the coaching staff in this tournament? You don’t want to wait so long to get there only to underperform when the time arrives!

Strong mentality and importance of psychology:

• To David, the best performers have more than great talent on the field. What is the role of a strong and collective mindset in creating winning teams?
• Georgia’s values that every player must buy into; learnings from the All Blacks.
• Why sports psychology is so important in today’s teams, and how it can be harnessed and applied to push further than a group may think possible.
• Uncovering young talent in the national set-up is different to club football. The players at your disposal offers the chance to curate the best team and mix of individuals without going to a board and requesting transfer funds.
• A mix of experience and youth will give you the perfect dynamics to build from, but be careful not to go too far one way.

David’s unique career:

• From scouting days at Crystal Palace and uncovering Wilfried Zaha, to taking the job with Georgia. 
• Time spent at Bayer Leverkusen and demonstrating his uncommon (British) approach to talent identification. What are the most important things to look for in young players?
• Working with managers like Eddie Howe and Mauricio Pochettino. What makes the top managers special and how do their styles differ to get the best out of their squads?
• The importance of enjoying the moment and taking it one step at a time.
• Being described as Neurodiverse and coming to terms with the possibility that the culture with which you operate in may not be the one that appreciates your qualities as they should. 

We are delighted to partner with Tyndall Investment Management for this show. To learn more about Tyndall and their incredible work in the wealth management sector, please visit https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Vikram is the Director of Business Operations at the England & Wales Cricket Board and is the man in charge of selling stakes in The Hundred franchises. Vikram was a professional cricketer before taking up his position at the ECB, playing short and long form cricket around the world.

Domestic cricket has been under pressure in the UK. The international game is strong, franchise tournaments like the IPL and Big Bash have thrived, but county cricket, the foundations of the game, has struggled to sustain the attention. The Hundred was created not just to form a new short-form league to compete with the major international franchise tournaments, but to bring value back into the English game.

After 4 years of successful implementation, Vik is now overseeing the ‘privatisation’ of the 8 franchises; an opportunity to bring in private investment, injecting millions of pounds into the cricket ecosystem. Franchise leagues are hot property. How will The Hundred franchises compare to not just other cricket assets, but the crop of new teams and leagues all competing for huge capital injections?

On this week’s show we discuss:

New Forms of Cricket:

• Why the sport needed to speak to a new audience to maintain its position as one of the most followed games globally.
• What do you need to protect and what is open to change; how decisions are made to attract a new audience but maintain the integrity of traditional formats.
• The IPL was a game changer and showed the world how it can be done. Is it replicable or a unique product of India’s cricket mad population?
• Short form cricket has helped facilitate the creation of more global sports stars who are integral for attracting a youth audience as interested in following the individual as a team.

The Hundred

• How did the ECB come up with the concept of The Hundred and what were the key challenges in implementing the tournament?
• How does the current ownership structure of the franchises look and why was it set up this way?
• You need the top players in the world to be playing in your tournament. How do you attract players to ensure they participate on a regular basis?
• Why now is the right time to explore the privatisation of the teams, and the impact it’ll have on the wider English cricket ecosystem.
• Salaries: What do the top players get paid in The Hundred compared to other short form tournaments?

Overcoming Crickets major challenges:

• Create an element of jeopardy; you need to have a system that distributes the best players equally to ensure competition remains. How do you do this?
• Tribalism drives engagement. How do you build affinity to new sporting organisations?
• Align the calendar and make sure the top tournaments are not competing with each other for eyeballs.
• Break the gender barriers in cricket. The Hundred combines both the men and women’s teams in the same package. Why is this so important?
• In England in particular, demonstrate that cricket is a sport for everyone. 

Our Partners:

Leaders in Sport 

https://leadersinsport.com/sport-business/leaders-events/leaders-week-london/

WSC Sports 

https://wsc-sports.com/

Tyndall Investment Management 

https://tyndallim.co.uk/

Today we welcome Exeter City CEO Joe Gorman. This show is long in the making. One of the most requested guests we have had. Why? Well Exeter are one of football’s biggest rarities; a fan owned club. This means they cannot rely on the wealth and exuberance enjoyed by many to succeed on and off the pitch. They actually have to try and make the business make sense.

Punching above their weight for many years, the club sits in League One alongside mega rich teams like Birmingham and Wrexham, and are more than competitive. So how does a club owned by 4700 fans paying £24 a year compete at the top level? How have they turned a £5m investment into the academy to a return of £20m. And why is Joe adamant this is a club here to be the best football team, not just to pat on the head and applaud for doing things unusually well.

A truly unique model. A truly unique conversation. This is the other side of the ‘Business of Football’.

On today’s show we discuss:

Exeter: A Fan-Owned Club:

• What does it mean to be owned by the fans and how does it actually work when you have over 4700 ‘owners’ involved in the club?
• Is Joe’s job made easier or harder without having the pressures exerted on management by demanding multi-millionaire owners chasing the glories of Premier League football?
• How does the business of the club actually work in the context of making decisions to spend money. Is it consensus driven?
• The importance of building trust: “the fans need to know I have the best interests of the club at heart”
• Why this is more than a club to patronise for doing well off the field and how Joe, along with manager Gary Caldwell, is installing a winning culture from top to bottom.
• Would the club ever look for investment away from the fanbase?

A Unique Playing Model:

• When you can’t go out and spend millions on a star player, how do Exeter uncover talent who fit their model?
• The importance of creating value for top teams by nurturing talent and being a home that clubs want to send their brightest young players to.
• Buying players for 5-figures and selling them for 7-figures; winning for Exeter is more than just 3 points on the pitch.
• The value of the sell-on clause: why having a percentage sale on players sold is such a valuable cash flow addition.
• The fanbase needs to understand and get behind this business model for it to work. How do they relate to a team with pure ideals that may have a ‘success ceiling’?

Competing in the EFL:

• The financial disparity between clubs even in League One is becoming more apparent than ever. How do Exeter leverage their unique model to compete with big spenders?
• Are clubs like Wrexham and Birmingham good for the Football League?
• Whose responsibility is it to capitalise on the increased exposure afforded to the football league with big investors and TV deals now a common occurrence?
• Why does Joe fear wage inflation will be the thing that makes competing on a manageable playing field too hard to navigate?

And to our amazing partner:

Orreco 

https://www.orreco.com/

Today, we are delighted to welcome Steve Pagliuca. Steve is a co-owner and Managing General Partner of the World Champion Boston Celtics and serves on the NBA Board of Governors. In 2022, he became co-owner and co-chairman of the Serie A football club, Atalanta. Away from sport, Steve has helped to build Bain Capital into one of the world’s leading investment companies.

In today’s episode, we discuss:

Football club ownership:

• Why was Steve interested in buying Atalanta in Italy and how has he found life as a football club owner?
• The importance of qualifying for European competitions and the financial opportunities it creates.
• Steve’s love for the passion and fandom that drives Italian football and the unique community environment it creates.
• What does the process look like when buying a player and Steve’s role in recruiting star striker Rasmus Hojlund. 
• How has Steve applied his experience in business to the world of football and how does he work with the club to set budgets, buy players, and drive new revenue initiatives?

Boston Celtics & the NBA:

• How Steve became part of the ownership group that bought the team for $350m that now has a market value of over $4bn.
• The pressure of bringing success back to the joint most winning team in NBA history, and the importance of that championship win in 2008.
• The opportunities created by the NBA’s 50:50 partnership with the players, and the possibilities of the model being replicated in football.
• Taking the NBA on the road and the drive for international expansion.

The process of buying clubs and franchises:

• How do you buy a club? What has been Steve’s experience of identifying and negotiating deals to acquire assets and the finances required to do so.
• The Chelsea sale: Steve’s role in the bidding process and the huge numbers behind the sale of a top Premier League club.
• Steve’s views on the challenge presented by competing with clubs owned by sovereignties.
• The importance of making sure that not only is there enough financial backing to buy a club, but also the reserves to run it so the long-term goals can be achieved.