Dive into the complete episode list for Build Your SaaS. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.
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Pub. Date
Title
Duration
17 Sep 2019
Is it a good idea to be a transparent startup?
00:45:14
Jon and Justin discuss:
Good mics for podcasters. Justin recommends the Samson Q2U and the ATR2100. Make sure you get a pop filter!
Starting our 6-week cycle (based on Basecamp's Shape Up)
Working through unknowns for software projects: "Where do we start?"
What's it been like being a transparent startup? Is it still a good idea?
"It feels less and less comfortable, and I don't know why." – Jon
"All people see is the revenue numbers; they don't understand what's happening underneath those numbers." – Justin
"Wait a second. Bootstrapped startups are different: the goal isn't to change the way people behave, it's to recognize where people are already in motion."
How long should you work on an idea before you quit?
New: Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
I called him up just to get a sense of how this pandemic (and looming recession) has already started to affect different SaaS companies
He's already noticing some trends: "A lot of SaaS companies are seeing the biggest loss they've seen in the past 4 weeks. I've heard from some companies that are seeing a 10-20% decrease in MRR."
"Payroll is the biggest challenge over the next year. Payroll is our biggest expense."
In this episode Jon talks about why he decided to partner with Justin (even though he'd already built the product).
★ Thanks to our two sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
The bandwidth / CDN cost problem (and how it might affect our profitability).
Marco Arment: "It would cost them probably thousands of dollars a month in bandwidth and CDN costs to host our show."
We made a decision on whether we'll take investment now. (Hats off to Earnest Capital, TinySeed, and Indie.VC for offering such great options!)
Should founders use their savings to fund their company? What about credit cards?
When should we start hiring people?
What about government-funded community loans for startups? ~9% interest.
Nathan Barry: "You should get a loan when you don’t need it because once you do it won’t be available."
Our accountant might be a socialist. ;)
Can you really "build something out of nothing?"
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
Got tons of help from Jack McDade, Adam Wathan, Ben Furfie
"Tailwind is really nice. I have to hand it to Adam."
Why working in tandem is better than working independently.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME. NO.
What's the next thing we're going to focus on?
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
New: Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
How to find the right customers for your software business
00:32:25
In this episode, we talk about the different types of customers for a SaaS:
B to C: selling to consumers. Here, we'd think of products and services like Verizon, iPhone apps, etc...
B to Prosumer: selling to prosumers. Prosumers are power users; serious hobbyists. Sometimes, they earn a bit of money from their hobby. Examples: a photographer who shoots a few weddings a year, a painter who sells a few paintings on the side, or a podcaster who has a few supporters on Patreon.
B to Aspirational: selling to aspirational business owners. Rob Walling uses Pat Flynn's "Smart Passive Income" audience as an example. Sometimes called "wantrepreneurs," these are folks who are willing to invest money in their business startup.
B to very small business: selling to solopreneurs, or teams of 2-3.
B to small business: this is selling to regular small businesses. Loosely defined as teams of 10-100.
B to enterprise: depending on the industry, "enterprise" might mean any company with more than 250 people. However, "large enterprise" is probably 5,000+.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
Taylor Otwell: "PHP (and a cheap laptop) changed my life"
00:58:24
Jon is away so Justin called up Taylor Otwell, the creator of Laravel. In this episode we covered:
How Laravel become the most popular backend framework on GitHub.
Surprise! Taylor wasn't really into computers before he created Laravel.
What was Taylor's motivation? Why did he create this, even though there were other alternatives?
What's Laravel's secret? Why did it succeed?
How is Laravel a business? How does it earn revenue?
"Before Laravel, there were a lot of programmers that were burnt out on PHP. These folks hated their job. But after Laravel, they enjoyed their job more. It helped them in a personal way."
2014: after a month he had 1000 customers, $90k / ARR almost right from launch. (He thought it would maybe make $2-$3k / month). Plans started at $10 / month.
End of 2014: decided to go full-time on Laravel.
2015: Full-time on Laravel, developed a competitive nature, really driven to see Laravel
Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Last week's episode hit a nerve! "The idea that every small software company in the world will be able to be in perfect compliance will every foreign federal, provincial, state, and municipal government that imposes a sales tax is ridiculous. It's an impossible task.
(00:11) - Follow up to previous episode
(02:37) - Responses we got about sales tax
(06:25) - A brief history of sales tax
(09:01) - Many vendors aren't collecting sales tax
(10:46) - What about Stripe Tax?
(12:40) - It's new to North America
(16:17) - How it affects subscription based businesses
(19:35) - It's not clear who's liable
(24:46) - Make it easier and gov't make more money
(28:16) - What about Merchants of Record?
(30:46) - Where is Stripe going?
(35:35) - What are going to do now?
(45:03) - Patreon supporters
Broadly, there were a few different camps with the responses we received:
North American SaaS companies who have been using Stripe: "Yes! Sales tax compliance for SaaS is brutal."
European SaaS companies that have had to deal with VAT for a long time (many of whom use a Merchant of Record).
Smaller North American solopreneurs and companies who had no idea they needed to collect and remit sales tax internationally.
North American companies who have one-time sales and use Merchant of Record services.
Responses from indie hackers:
European: “Once again, I notice that the indie hacking community has a somewhat naïve approach to what running a business actually entails. As a European, not having a plan for sales tax is... mindboggling.”
Cooper: “I think it might be a European perspective; we are dealing with VAT from day 1, so it's just one of the parts of running a business from the start, it can't really be neglected.”
Daniel Vassallo: “It's impossible to be compliant everywhere. The Kingdom of Tonga could tomorrow come up with an internet tax and require you to remit 25% of your sales to the tax office in person in their local currency. And they won't tell you about it. It's just a cost/benefit analysis.”
Derrick Grigg: “How can they enforce tax collection on a business they have no jurisdiction over? Governments are shaking businesses down. I’m all for collecting and paying properly where you physically operate but collecting and remitting outside your province never mind nation is a stretch.”
Derrick Reimer: “Dear Stripe: We SaaS founders are desperate for a full-stack global tax compliance solution without having to leave you for a merchant-of-record. Are you planning to solve this?”
Did you know...
"There are actually several different types of sales tax systems in use throughout the United States. The biggest difference is whether the seller or the purchaser is the main taxpayer. In some states, the tax is imposed on sellers, who then have the option of passing the tax along to their purchasers. In other states, the tax is imposed on the purchaser, with the seller being responsible for collecting the tax and remitting it to the state. And then there are other states where the liability for the tax is shared by sellers and purchasers."
Should a parent with young kids try to bootstrap a new startup?
01:05:43
In this episode, Justin speaks with Aaron Francis about being a new parent and trying to bootstrap a startup. Aaron argued the other side of Justin's tweet thread: "Wait until your kids are older to start a company." Aaron is well-positioned to talk about this because he has twins and is also bootstrapping Hammerstone with his co-founder Colleen. The whole conversation is a nuanced take on the topic and full of important insights, especially on:
the risks involved (especially if you're not working a full-time job)
the kind of foundation (mentally, financially, emotionally, relationally) you need to be able to take the risk
Highlights from this episode:
(00:12) - Welcome Aaron
(01:10) - Topic introduction
(02:22) - What's Aaron's story?
(05:28) - What is a maximum effort era?
(10:56) - What are you willing to sacrifice?
(15:17) - What's your daily routine like?
(17:30) - Context matters in all of this
(28:01) - Are you sacrificing social connections?
(30:53) - Blind spots can affect you on your journey
(33:23) - Pain vs risk
(37:43) - Being on the same page as your partner
(41:47) - Going to therapy sooner
(43:51) - Building a good foundation
(48:51) - Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats
(53:54) - Sometimes it's easier to try getting a better job
In this episode, Jon and Justin discuss the golden rule for growing your audience. This could mean:
How to get more paying customers for your software product.
How to get more followers on Twitter.
How to get more podcast listeners.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
"I'm not used to all this attention. it’s weird. not bad, just…not used to it."
"If you're doing anything interesting out in the world, you're gonna have people get mad about something at some point." – Rob Walling
"There's a bit of imposter syndrome; like, do we deserve this?"
It's more about the way you orient yourself than setting a specific destination.
Bootstrapping podcasts: Art of Product, Bootstrapping SaaS, Slow & Steady, Bright & Early, Build your SaaS, Bootstrapping Web, Startups for the Rest of Us, Getting to Ramen, Bootstrapping Digest, Product Journey.
How big is podcasting really?
(29:11) – This new season of Gimlet's "Startup" podcast is fascinating: it reveals info about the podcast industry that we just didn't know before.
Halt and Catch Fire – is this show too weird?
Podcasting has always grown slowly.
What are some of the risks, or threats, to our business?
Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
Adam Wathan: how small startups hire employees (Tailwind CSS)
01:35:18
How do founders of small bootstrapped companies hire new employees?
Adam Wathan got over 1600 people who applied for two new roles at Tailwind Labs (a small team of six people). They ended up hiring two people, but neither of them actually applied. This wasn't how Adam expected (or hoped) this process would go. There were lots of surprising takeaways and lessons learned from the whole experience.
"If you figure we spend 5 minutes on every single application, that was like 133 hours straight reading applications. Processing these job applications was basically my full time job for 2 months." – Adam Wathan
Jon and Justin do a founder retreat in Portland with Darby Frey and Shay Howe (Lead Honestly). We hashed out some ideas for:
How do you start building a really big feature?
What does version 1 of our "dynamic content" feature look like?
Setting up Mixpanel: creating event triggers, funnels, and onboarding.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Pete Marcano: “I’ll be honest, when I listened to the Build Your SaaS episode on this feature being launched, I didn’t really think much of it. Listening to this episode connected the dots. This is awesomely game changing.”
Now we’re technically in a “cool down” cycle” - is this how this should feel?
When should you push back on customers' feature requests?
Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
New sponsor: ActiveCampaign! Get the world's most advanced marketing & sales automation platform. Use the code activecampaign.com/buildyoursaas and get two months free + 2 free One-on-Ones!
Advice for new founders: "What products get bought every day?"
Every day, millions of people wake up and buy a cup of coffee.
Every day, there are people who wake up and sign up for web hosting.
Will there be people lining up tomorrow morning to buy your product? And the next day?
What's still going to be true tomorrow, six months from now, three years from now?
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
There's an app called Buffer that really kickstarted the "radical transparency" movement with startups. Over time, they've revealed almost everything: how much their employees make, their company's revenue metrics, their internal emails, and their hiring process.
But is this something that we want for Transistor.fm? Listen to the episode to hear what we decided. ;)
Jon and Justin talk about "optionality" in bootstrapping. (Justin is concerned, Jon thinks we should just enjoy the moment).
DHH: "Part of what gave us the confidence to turn down the whole world of venture capital was a small sale of equity to Jeff Bezos. That gave our personal bank accounts just enough ballast that the big numbers touted by VCs and acquisition hunters lost their lure."
Are we at peak podcasting? Things are good right now - will they be good for 10 years? 20 years?
How much did the founders of Buffer, Robinhood, etc. take off the table? Article.
Des Traynor: "A founder is spending 60 months of their best years in their startup (instead of their career). That is a substantial upfront investment; it's like a seed round, but instead of money, it's your life."
This latest revenue update has Jon and Justin scared. 😱
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Balsamiqis giving a shout out to their ADMIN team members. They are the unsung heroes of any well-run software business, and rarely get any spotlight. Without their tireless work, none of it would be possible. Anna, Joy, Amanda and Natalie: thanks for everything you do. You're the "oil" that keeps our engine running smoothly, but you’re also the oil that completes our Balsamiq dressing! balsamiq.com/company
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Ideas on how you can use your podcast to reach your goals:
Private feed just for your team / employees
Q&A: get users, customers, audience to leave you a voicemail. Answer 1 question per week.
Interview your customers: interview 1 customer per week. Ask them about their business, how they’re using your product.
Expert tips: if you’re a professional (lawyer, accountant, coach), give your listeners an actionable piece of advice every week. Give them one thing to improve every week.
Read your blog posts: already writing a blog post ever week? Just read it “audible” style for your audience.
Recycle your best talks / videos.
Conferences: give attendees a private feed of all the talks!
Crazy to think about where we were last year when we recorded this episode.
Spotify's growing market share
What happened to our dynamic content feature?
A big rant about Apple Podcasts
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
Jon and Justin are back from Portland and wrestling with ideas, bots, and CMSes:
Justin's spouse wants to know why we wouldn't sell for $5 million (and each get $2.5 million)
Jon found some bot traffic that we need to eliminate from our analytics, and it's giving him a Postgres headache.
Justin is trying a bunch of different CMS options: Vapid, Statamic in an effort to get off WordPress.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Sales tax compliance: nobody in SaaS wants to talk about it. Jon and Justin tried to do something about it and it turned into a nightmare. According to Stripe Tax, there are about 90 different regions that software companies may have to register in, and then calculate, collect, and remit sales tax on their behalf. But in North America, many SaaS companies don't seem to care: many that we looked at weren't collecting sales tax at all, while a few had just started collecting in the US states.
(00:13) - Welcome
(01:54) - Benefits of podcasting for a small business
(03:44) - New Year's update
(05:59) - Patreon integration feature
(10:23) - Dear listener... a request!
(10:50) - Exciting! Sales Tax! Discussion!
(29:01) - What have we tried
(40:12) - A new issue that we can't make progress on
(47:00) - Thanks to our Patreon supporters
If you've been wondering about how sales tax applies to SaaS, listen to this episode.
New: Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
Why we started a private podcast for our advisors and trusted friends
"My opinion is you need to grow fast and become THE platform for managing your podcast. Consider raising venture money."
But, if we add investment money and a bunch of employees, and then our company is no longer simple.
Tired before the holidays; a break will be good.
What should we do with this show in 2020?
Should we rebuild the customer dashboard using Tailwind?
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
"There's so many great feature ideas, but we can't do them all."
Jon's wondering about the constant feature request/release cycle
“You’re doing a good job if you’re enjoying the journey” - Jason Cohen (on Art of Product)
Tweet: “Any other SaaS companies seeing that revenue generally drops in the summer? I thought it was just me.”
Nathan Barry: “The summer is historically really slow for us.”
Justin is wondering: are enterprise customers worth it? (Des Traynor from Intercom says: "yes")
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
ProfitWell. If you’re earning recurring revenue from Stripe, you need this tool. It will show you all of your business metrics: MRR, LTV, churn. Sign up for free: profitwell.com
Jon's back from his first real vacation in years. In this episode, we discuss how we've been removing inactive accounts on Transistor, SVB, Section 174, Revin is shutting down their Merchant of Record service, SaaS sales tax compliance:
“The most relevant reason [we are closing] is that the Merchant of Record model is too risky for both sellers and the MOR operator. Sellers bear the risk of platform shutdown (as seen in the example of Flurly & Stripe), and the MOR operator could potentially become involved in illicit or illegal activities quickly, which could lead to all sorts of problems.
Furthermore, it became increasingly clear that the Merchant of Record model primarily appeals to small-scale sellers or businesses with questionable and high-risk business models. This presents a significant challenge as we strive to move up the market.
The recent change in Stripe's risk behavior has caused us to experience issues with keeping Stripe accounts live.”
In the second half of the episode, Justin and Michele talk about the challenges of balancing starting a business while you have young kids. For more on this topic, check out the last episode with Aaron Francis.
It’s really difficult to make that calculation: should we commit to this? How do we know that the cost will be worth the benefit?
For example, we could invest $100k + 6 months of time into building a mobile app for private podcasts, under the assumption that it will increase the number of private podcast customers we get. But what you don’t see is:
How much time + energy does it really take to build it?
Does it attract the wrong customers?
How much time + energy does it take to support it?
How does it affect the fun + calm of running the app?
What does Nathan Barry think of podcast hosting pricing?
00:11:31
Today's show is not a full episode!
Jon and I have been busy with our day jobs, plus Memorial Day, and didn't have time to record a show.
But, to be honest, this pricing discussion isn't something we can solve in a 30-minute conversation. We've realized it's going to require more research. We need to talk to folks who know more than us.
So that's what we've been doing. This week, I have a call booked with Patrick from Price intelligently, as well as Rob Walling (who just his company Drip).
I'm hoping to get some useful insights on pricing from these folks. Mostly so we don't make the same mistakes that other SaaS companies have made. These chats will also benefit you, the listener, because we'll be sharing as much as we can in future episodes.
As a teaser, I'm going to share a phone call I had with Nathan Barry. He has one of the fastest growing SaaS products in existence right now: ConvertKit.
They just crossed 1 million dollars in MRR. That's an Annual Run Rate of $12.8 million! They've grown fast, and Nathan's had to learn fast.
So here are some of his thoughts on the pricing of podcast hosting.
Jon and Justin discuss "Why did we choose podcasting? And why now?" Picking the right idea, the right market, and having the right timing is crucial.
Current trends we've noticed:
Dungeons and Dragons is getting popular again. Maybe because of Stranger Things?
Podcasting, and branded podcasts, continue to grow in popularity. Increasingly, I'm hearing folks talk about the Tim Ferriss podcast in coffee shops. Instead of asking "What are you reading?" folks are asking "What podcasts are you listening to?"
Qualitative evidence almost always comes before quantitative evidence.
Show notes:
Thanks to Greg at Mtek Digital for the studio space!
Why finding the right market is the first filter you should use on your idea.
Justin also shares some stuff he's changed his mind about this past year.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
Jon and Justin are wrestling with thoughts about growth:
"Our current rate of growth is nice: it feels sustainable." – Justin
"It feels less sustainable for me, because I'm working a full-time job." – Jon
We’re able to keep up with demand, and enjoy the process.
There are all these stories about folks whose companies are growing like crazy. They’re just always adding more people, more process, more stress. Do we want that?
Peldi tells this story about starting Balsamiq. He said his launch was like “holding on to a rocket ship with his fingernails.”
Some folks would say we should be capturing more of the market. There’s this idea that you can’t be satisfied with what you have. That you have to juice every bit of growth you can.
But then you’re building all of these dependencies that you have to keep up even when the market goes down.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Balsamiq: If you’d like to help in make Balsamiq Wireframes better, and help them shape the future of wireframing, join their Customer Advisory Board at balsamiq.com/support/makeusbetter
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Show notes:
Greg Wade, the baker that Jon apprenticed with, just won a James Beard award.
In this episode Jon and Justin discuss talk about how you should think about your software product's competition.
Why you shouldn’t focus on the competition
It’s a distraction. The main point by many folks is: “when you focus too much on the competition, it means you’re not focusing enough on your customers.”
It causes anxiety.“Last summer, I stopped[reading industry news]. I had just reached the point at which I could feel an unhealthy level of toxicity piling up inside of me. I felt myself getting too involved, too absorbed, and a bit too anxious about what I was missing, and about what I knew or didn't know, but thought I should know. I was checking Twitter too often and reloading sites too often. If someone told me about something I hadn't heard of, I felt like I should have already known about it. Industry news was becoming an addiction.” - Jason Fried
It’s too tempting to copy features. “Copying skips understanding. Understanding is how you grow. You have to understand why something works or why something is how it is. When you copy it, you miss that. You just repurpose the last layer instead of understanding all the layers underneath.” – Jason Fried
It can lead to feature creep. company A is doing this, company B is doing that, so let’s do them all. also, paralyzing indecision and no real thought about why you’d be building a feature.
“I wouldn’t advocate spending much time worrying about the competition — you really shouldn’t waste attention worrying about things you can’t control — but if it helps make the point relatable, the best way to beat the competition is to last longer than they do.” – Jason Fried
Why you should focus on the competition
It’s a way of understanding your customers. You should be aware of why customers are choosing (or not choosing) the competition.
It’s more competitive now. I wrote a post about this. “It's getting more expensive to build SaaS companies and exits are weak.” Mattermark, 2016. “We're not building these basic CRUD apps like we used to be able to. The stuff's too competitive now.” – Rob Walling. "No one wants to admit it, but the old ‘your product must be 10x better than existing solutions’ trope is dead. I think this is one of the most hostile times for startups that we’ve had, really. Products are better, and competition is enormous." – Zach Holman
It’s a way of revealing opportunities. “Everybody's drilling for oil in the same spot because some other guy found oil there already.” – Nick Quah. What’s everyone else missing? Where’s the untapped well?
You’re stealing time, attention, and money from somebody, and it’s not always who you think!(Article) When Uber launched, they stole customers from the taxi industry. When the iPhone launched, Apple took customers from Kodak and the film industry.
How to think about the competition
SWOT. What are their strengths? What are their weaknesses? What are their opportunities? What are their threats? Do SWOT on yourself too!
User interviews. One of the best ways to do user research is to interview folks who are actively using the competition! What brought them to start using it? How’d they find it? What was going on in their life at that time? Why do they keep using it?
When people switch. If people switch away from you to a competitor, that’s a great time to ask questions. "The only two people who can give you real feedback about your product are people who just purchased it and people who just canceled.” – Jason Fried
Think about how you can outlast them. What are practices you can put in place that will help you outlast the competition? “Whenever a startup goes out of business, the first thing I get curious about are their costs, not their revenues.” – Jason Fried
Figure out how you can make things easier.How can you make your app easier to use than the competition?
Look for unmet desires. What are the unmet needs of users using competitors’ products? Search Twitter, support forums, etc for instances of people complaining. What are they complaining about?
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
For most folks, bootstrapping means self-funding your business from revenues. It means not taking Venture Capital, not taking Angel funding. It's a little bit of a religion and like so many religions different people have different definitions of what it takes to "fit in." Some people say you can't even take money from friends and family. If you take any outside money, you're no longer a part of the bootstrappers club.
On Sunday, we had a service outage. Jon and Justin talk about what happened:
TLS / SSL day of horror
Sunday morning Justin started getting messages from a few Android users that they couldn’t download episodes.
Then, the afternoon hits, and we started getting a flood of tweets, DMs, text messages, and support requests.
We talk about how we fixed it, and what we'd like to change for next time.
Also: how we're earning 29% of our SaaS revenue. (A channel we didn't expect)
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Balsamiq.cloud: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.cloud.
👋 Justin here. This episode is to let you know why there's no episode today. (I've had a few DMs from folks that were worried!)
We're good; we had some server trouble this morning that took all our time and attention today. We're hoping to be back next Tuesday with a full episode.
Thanks everyone; we appreciate your support! ✌️
Special thanks to Dean Layton James, from CloudPeriscope and Benedikt Evans from UserList for giving us ideas on how to fix our issues today! ❤️
Justin wants to know: when's the last time you changed your business' homepage?
Jon does a deep dive into Apple's podcasting docs.
Justin built a status (uptime) page for Transistor using Tailwind.
Jon thinks there is enterprise demand for private podcasts.
Justin chats about Startup Kung-Fu.
They both chat about specialists vs generalists.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Balsamiq.cloud: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.cloud.
Startup coaching: helping founders and team members realize their full potential
00:57:18
This week Jon and Justin are joined by Marcella Chamorro. Previously, she worked in startup marketing but has recently transitioned to coaching founders and teams. We discussed how startup founders and their team members can realize their full potential.
Here are some highlights:
(00:24) - Introducing Marcella
(03:08) - How do you define your coaching?
(05:15) - What do you see with rising stars?
(09:42) - Do you navigate team dynamics or individual work?
(14:45) - Any advice for founder's stress
(23:27) - Personal lives do come to work
(33:02) - The ability to have difficult conversations
(47:23) - A lot of value in speaking to someone who's not you
(50:44) - How can people reach out Marcella?
Quote:"I think people who choose to do coaching want to be really good at what they do and they want to have a really good life. They are looking to optimize their time on planet Earth." – Marcella
Sometimes the best plan is to do nothing. Just wait and see what happens.
Billing updates for delinquent customers
Did someone try to phish us on-air?
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Balsamiq.cloud: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.cloud.
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Paul Jarvis: gaining freedom by building an indie business
01:11:43
Justin catches up with his old internet friend Paul Jarvis. Today, Paul co-founded Fathom Analytics with Jack Ellis: a simple alternative to Google Analytics. Paul is also the author of the book "Company of One," which has influenced a whole generation of indie entrepreneurs (and has been reviewed by Cal Newport, Chris Guillebeau, Ben Chestnut, Tiago Forte, and more). Previously, Justin and Paul did a weekly mastermind, where they supported and encouraged each other around our indie businesses. They decided to do a catch-up call and recorded it so you could listen in. 👍
Highlights:
(00:10) - Intro
(02:20) - Being off the internet
(03:58) - What's a typical day for Paul?
(06:21) - Looking back at our Mastermind call
(08:08) - There's no beginning and no end
(10:36) - Things that are out of your control affect your business
(13:08) - Does Justin's surfing metaphor make sense to a surfer?
(16:11) - How would you start an indie business in 2023?
(22:05) - You've got to get in motion
(25:08) - Using products in your category for a long time
(27:53) - Is there still any room in Saas?
(31:56) - The act of making the bet
(38:45) - Is freelancing still viable in 2023?
(42:55) - Company design is lifestyle design
(45:00) - Worrying about being stagnant
(47:20) - How do you handle customer feature requests?
(52:08) - It's ok to be late to a shift in the market
(58:24) - Caring is an indie advantage
(01:05:05) - Collaboration is what gets us anywhere
Marie Poulin is a good example of an entrepreneur who's experienced a breakthrough this year; we should celebrate those!
Justin's tweet: "What are we doing this for? Is the purpose of life to "Start business. Make most money. Die." We want to engage with an audience that wants more out of life."
"Stay in your lane." The people who listen to this show aren't one-dimensional. We all live in a social, economic, and political context. We have feelings, families, histories. "Business" exists within these contexts. If our ideas about business are divorced from their human context, how helpful are they really?
22:18 – the Tailwind CSS project is plumbing.
23:15 – what kind of SaaS projects would we start right now?
27:10 – how much money does Nathan Barry have in the bank?
28:50 – you could still build this kind of app (Carrd competitor)
Jon and Justin share some honest updates about as they continue to build their SaaS (Transistor.fm):
Justin swears in this episode.
We're half way through 2019!?!
Jon is wondering if donuts are big in Canada.
Official Transistor start dates:
May 2017: actual incorporation date
January 2018: Jon and Justin sign partnership documents
August 2018: official launch
"Some days I feel like I've been doing
Justin thinks business is a lot like fishing.
"Transistor's launch has felt different than other products I've been involved with."
Jon is debating whether some integrations are worth it: "The nature of the web and APIs are amazing but it sure does take up a lot of resources."
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
ProfitWellgives you free subscription metrics for your SaaS. Just plug in your billing system (Stripe, Zuora, Braintree, Chargebee, Recurly are all supported) and get free access to your MRR, churn, cohorts. Sign up for free at profitwell.com.
Redash is is a BI tool for people who love SQL. Connect your database, query, visualize and share your data in minutes. Need to report on your weekly goals and metrics? Mention "Build your SaaS podcast" and get 50% off your first 3 months! Sign up at redash.io
Jon and Justin are back from Portland and the XOXO festival.
In the last few weeks we've had a chance to interact with many of our customers in-person:
Nate Smoyer – "I’ve been using the podcast as a prospecting tool. Signed one dreams client two weeks ago. Interviewed with one yesterday. Got invited to lead a panel and live podcast for an industry event."
Jon had some personal news for Justin this week. This week they discuss:
What does this mean for the product?
What does this mean for us as a team?
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
ProfitWellgives you free subscription metrics for your SaaS. Just plug in your billing system (Stripe, Zuora, Braintree, Chargebee, Recurly are all supported) and get free access to your MRR, churn, cohorts. Sign up for free at profitwell.com.
Redash is is a BI tool for people who love SQL. Connect your database, query, visualize and share your data in minutes. Mention "Build your SaaS podcast" and get 50% off your first 3 months! Sign up at redash.io
Structural racism affects every part of the economic system. It affects bootstrappers too! It defines:
Who we hire
Who we invest in
Who we promote
Who we chat with
Who sees our numbers
Who we invite to speak
Who gets access to our platform
"It's not just about being oppressed or being an oppressor, it's about resisting oppression and resisting being an oppressor; being an ally, being an advocate for social justice." – Dr. Beverly Daniel Tatum (clip)
Right now, in cities across America, people are protesting systemic violence and oppression against Black people.
We (Jon and Justin) are waking up to how complicit we are in the system. We're seeing our privilege. We're humbled and motivated by the words of Dr. Erin Thomas:
"You can directly impact the extent to which your organization counters historical inequity, inequality & injustice."
The bootstrapping, SaaS, and startup ecosystems need to wrestle with these issues.
"How can you help? By working to dismantle a system of racism from which you reap the benefits. If you are not working to do that then you don’t actually want to help." – Kristina Daniels
Instead of Patreon shout outs, we're shouting out these causes:
Here we are at episode 30! Just found this old 2012 interview with the founder of MailChimp, before they became a $4.2 billion company. This quotes is awesome:
Back in 2001, we had multiple customers who needed help sending their email newsletters. They were using really big, expensive, bloated software. We had some “scrap code” lying around, so we modified the code and turned it into an email newsletter app for them. We opened it up to the public, set up some Google Adwords, and basically forgot about it. Then, in 2005, we noticed it was a better business than our web-dev agency so we decided to take all of 2006 to wind down the agency business and beef up MailChimp’s features. We officially hit the “reset button” in 2007 and became a product company.
Ben Chestnut and his cofounder, Dan Kurzius, have both profited richly from their patience. With $600 million in revenue, Mailchimp is in the black and has more than doubled its estimated valuation to $4.2 billion in the last two years, giving Chestnut, 44, and Kurzius, 46, its sole owners, stakes worth $2.1 billion each.
Even more interesting for us:
Mailchimp, launched in 2001 and remained a side project for several years, earning a few thousand dollars a month. Then in 2007, when it hit 10,000 users, the two decided to commit full-time.
This was the part that surprised me: MailChimp was a side-project for 6 years (earning just a few thousand to start).
Especially interesting in light of this DHH quote I shared in a previous episode:
If it takes five years to get to the point where the business can pay two salaries, it's possible that the business isn't destined for that long-term.
Bootstrappers need to be more patient! (And maybe keep their day job)
This week on the program, Justin and Jon talk about:
The new Transistor UI, and how folks are responding to it.
"Damn the torpedoes!" – seeing if our update worked in IE11 after we deployed.
Tobias Lütke, Shopify: “All the trends have been accelerated. The pandemic has moved everything forward 10 years. So now we need to build 2030 level software in 2020.”
Justin gets interviewed by Harry Duran on the Podcast Junkies show, and answers questions about:
Is podcasting really having it's moment now?
Is now a good time to invest in the podcasting industry?
How is Transistor going to be different than other competitors?
Who should be starting podcasts right now?
Can anyone be a podcaster?
Is podcasting a "mindful technology?"
★ Thanks to our two sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
This week on the program, Justin and Jon talk about:
A friend, whose SaaS has grown 300% since the beginning of the quarantine. They just hit $6k in MRR.
At that stage, he's in the "almost but not yet."
You're either:
Brainstorming how to make money faster
Brainstorming how to work less
Different stages:
Pre-launch stage: you're working on your product on the side. It's fun! There's nothing stealing your time and attention because you don't have customers yet.
The beta stage: still pretty fun! You have a few customers who are using your product, and maybe paying you money.
The "launched" stage: now, you have way more users. Now you're doing way more customer support, responding to feature requests.
How much did we work when we were building Transistor?
Jon figures we spent 45 to 60 hours a week (each).
Cloud base accounting software and services for non-accountants. This used to be owned by Allan Branch (Paul Kogan owns it now). It’s specifically designed for small businesses with 1-25 employees and contractors
A stressful Rails 6 upgrade (and how it broke the app).
We often use data to make decisions, but we don't often examine the underlying data we're using to make decisions.
How do we know if our marketing efforts are effective?
"What's happened to your data since last quarter?"
"If a billion people are listening, but not reacting, does it matter?"
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
How much does it cost to run a SaaS in 2018? We take a look at our bootstrap expenses.
Every business accrues monthly expenses. The danger? Business owners can get in the habit of spending money, believing that "you gotta spend money to make money."
Patio11's reply to Justin's tweet: "It is far, far, far easier to create something that will increase the revenue of your business by $200 a month than it is to squeeze $200 out of the expenses."
Jon Buda and Justin Jackson make predictions for the tech industry, the podcasting space, and the startup ecosystem.
Predictions for 2019
There will be a global economic downturn. Companies will be looking for more affordable marketing spend. Brands that don't have a strong relationship with their audience will lose.
This could be increase the number of companies who invest in podcasting. Audio is still a "good deal" compared to other communication channels.
Related: will we see the big “5” (Squarespace, etc) advertising less?
2019 will be the year of non-gaming livestreaming. More programmers, business people, podcasters will be livestreaming. Plus: more audio-livestreaming.
Related: Podcasting without editing will become more popular. No intro music. Just recorded live with an outline, and published immediately.
Podcasting will grow to 800,000 shows. (Currently ~619,000 in Apple Podcasts)
Continued focus on "mindful technology." Very possible that iPhone will have a "dumb phone" mode: only texting, phone calls, and GPS. All other apps will disappear from your homescreen when enabled.
Smart speakers will not have a big effect on podcast consumption. I think they will become more popular, but I don’t see people using them to listen to podcasts. (These folks think it will be big, I disagree. Currently 1% of listenership)
Apple is going to make a big media move to challenge Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. It will finally break iTunes apart on desktop. Maybe we'll see a standalone desktop Apple Podcasts app?
More branded podcasts and production companies. (example)
Dynamic content (outside of advertising) will be bigger.
More traditional media brands will buy podcast related IP. Podcasts turning into → TV shows. For example: Homecoming on Amazon Video.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Alitu.com: Alitu removes all the tech headaches associated with producing your podcast. They take care of processing, editing & publishing your podcast. Go to Alitu.com and check out their video demo.
Podcastinsights.com: If you want to get into podcasting, check out Podcast Insights. They’re a great resource for folks who want to start and grow a podcast. Podcast equipment guides, how to make money. Join millions of readers learning all about how to start, grow, and monetize a podcast at podcastinsights.com.
Hear what's new from Jon and Justin on their bootstrapping journey:
Nothing like throwing yourself down a mountain when you're tired
We're seeing a big increase in support tickets here at the end of August
Justin has a theory: more support tickets is leading indicator for an increase in revenue
"When people have 'summer brain' they don't want to think about work."
Jon's learned some things about how enterprise sales really work
Listener Sarah McMullin gave us some great advice on enterprise sales as well
Jon tells us about doing the Ironman in Traverse City and how much time he spent in the penalty box
How does Slack and Tuple do enterprise billing?
We're going to try to use the "Shape Up" philosophy for making business decisions too.
Justin's thinking about how Transistor can clarify its positioning: “Who is this for?” “What challenge are they facing?” “How does your product help overcome the challenge?”
April Dunford on positioning: the market categories we choose make it easier to market the product. "People make decisions based on what they already know."
Dark mode player coming soon!
"Unix came about because Bell Labs hired smart people and gave them the freedom to amuse themselves, trusting that their projects would be useful more often than not." – Unix at 50
New: Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
This is a heavy one! Let us know at @buildyoursaas if you listen to the whole thing.
On a micro-scale many folks believe "how much MRR is enough?" is a silly question, because, in our current global economic model, your business has to keep growing (or it will eventually die). (CHURN will kill you)
But on a macro-scale, our economic system relies on perpetually increasing:
resource extraction
population growth
energy usage
(Not sustainable)
As founders, it's hard enough to wrestle with the "normal" issues, much less wrestle with existential questions. But this is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night...
"To succeed is to destroy ourselves. To fail is to destroy ourselves. That is the bind we have created." – George Monbiot (Guardian article)
A remember Paul Hawken having a brighter take when I read "The Ecology of Commerce" years ago while I was taking my undergrad. I should read it again.
“Social theorists often take just one of these moments and view it as the “silver bullet” that causes all change. We have technological determinists (Tom Friedman), environmental determinists (Jared Diamond), daily life determinists (Paul Hawken), labor process determinists (the autonomistas), class struggle determinists (most Marxist political parties), institutionalists, and so on and so forth.”
Budgeting over time:
Early: we spent as little as we could
When we went full-time (April and July): still be lean, but investing in more tools
Now: realizing (maybe) its better for us to invest in tools, infrastructure, equipment? Also: better to pay ourselves more?
Profit first:
We started with: 50% salaries, 15% saved for taxes, 5% profit, the rest expenses
Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
One of the things I asked him: "Why do venture capital investors take these big risks with their money?"
"There's a lot of money in the world. There are trillions of dollars just sitting around, and people are bored. The money is bored! Money wants to burn! Money does not want to sit in a safe."
Uh. What an interesting idea: "the money is bored."
Jon Buda and I are bootstrapping Transistor.fm and Spots.fm. We've invested our own money into both of these projects.
When you're self-funding a startup, your money is the opposite of bored. Your money is stressed. You're caught between these two realities: you're investing real time and money into the product, but the product isn't yet giving you anything back.
For example, we're launching Transistor.fm on August 1st.
Right now we have 51 early access customers and $781 in MRR.
Let's say that when we launch on August 1st, we double MRR to $1,500.
To get to $21,000 in MRR (enough for Jon and me to focus on Transistor full-time), it will take five years (assuming 10.0% exponential growth and 5.0% churn).
Five years. 60 months. That's a long time to wait for a paycheque.
There's this tricky tension when you're bootstrapping a SaaS. On one side, you're investing in this product that could be an incredible asset.
If Transistor hits $20,000 a month, that's dependable, recurring revenue.
But on the hand, investing all that time and money in something that isn't a sure bet is a risk.
It's easy to see why bootstrapped founders get stressed. It's easy to see why many experience burnout and have to quit.
That's something Mike and Fred talked about on their podcast, Hit Reply.
Bootstrappers who are building something new have to walk this fine line:
We need to invest a considerable amount of effort to launch our product.
But we also need money to live, and it can be years before a SaaS can support you full-time.
What Jason Fried and DHH achieved with Basecamp is what most bootstrappers aspire for. Heck, most of us would be happy for even a fraction of their success.
They've long been the example of how you can self-fund a product, bring it to market, grow it, and have it succeed.
But the story many of us are telling ourselves about how they achieved that success isn't quite right.
Yes, they've bootstrapped Basecamp since 2004.
But in 2006 they didn't something a lot of us bootstrappers haven't paid a lot of attention to.
They took investment!
I recently read this interview with DHH on Startup.co. The interviewer asked:
"As you’ve built Basecamp you’ve been very vocal about resisting the temptation of unicorn culture. How have your perspectives changed?"
David's answer is interesting:
It wasn’t without temptation or struggle to stay like this. Especially in the early years, before our bombastic views on venture capital, the IPO rat-race, and other ills of funding were known. We had, I think, close to 50 different VCs get in contact.
Ironically, part of what did give us the confidence to turn down that whole world was a small sale of equity to Jeff Bezos. That gave our personal bank accounts just enough ballast that the big numbers touted by VCs and acquisition hunters lost their lure.
This is something the bootstrapping culture doesn't think about a lot.
37signals, the poster child of the bootstrapped world, took investment two years after they launched the product.
That Bezos money didn't go into the company. It went into their personal bank accounts.
Jason and David were able to hedge their bets. That Bezos investment removed a lot of the stress and risk that comes from bootstrapping a product.
Bootstrappers have created a religion out of building something from scratch and self-funding the entire thing.
But what if that ideology leads to burnout? Or bankruptcy? Or not being able to go the distance?
Here's David again:
"I really wish that more founders who are on to something could find ways to diversify their accounts just enough to dare go the distance."
"You shouldn't be worried about that, but you should be worried about THIS."
The SaaS gold rush: “Building, Owning (& possibly Selling) a profitable remote SaaS business is the new American Dream.” – Tyler Tringas
It’s harder to get the American Dream these days. “Productivity has increased by 80 per cent, but median compensation (that's wages plus benefits) has risen by just 11 per cent during that time. The middle-income jobs of the nation's postwar boom years have disproportionately vanished. Low-wage jobs have disproportionately burgeoned.” – Harold Meyerson, 40-year slump
More companies will take a stand on privacy: they’ll stop using Google Analytics, Facebook Ads, etc...
Privacy-focused companies like Fathom Analytics will become more popular.
Profitable SaaS companies + wealth founders will turn their attention to climate change
Less open startups.
Simon Bennett tweet: "Unfortunately, I am stopping publishing SnapShooter numbers from now on."
Small retreats > conferences
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Postmark. Postmark delivers your transactional email to customers on time, every time. You'll love their lightning-fast email delivery and developer-friendly features. Get one month free when you use coupon code BUILDYOURSAAS. postmarkapp.com/loves/buildyoursaas
Clubhouse. Guess who's back? Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Now it's free for teams up to 10 people.clubhouse.io/build.
"We have a philosophy of “no hard sells” and it has served us well. If someone’s not convinced we move on; we don’t hang on trying to convince one person. It’s tempting to defend yourself, but not good for business."
"If you can’t decide, the answer is no. If two equally difficult paths, choose the one more painful in the short term. Choose the path that leaves you more equanimous in the long term."
If you're struggling with pricing your app, listen to this episode! Ben Orenstein, Jordan Gal, Patrick Campbell, and I discussed whether "charge more" is always the right answer.
★ Thanks to our sponsors:
Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.
Josh Pigford, Baremetrics, says: “CBD oil. Previously I was a very "active" sleeper...talking, getting up, etc. It'd also take me upwards of 30 minutes to get to sleep and I'd regularly wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to get back to sleep. Haven't had any of those issues since using CBD oil.”
Scott Bolinger:
no caffeine after 10am
no work after dinner
non-fiction books only at bedtime
dark lighting in house hours before bed
same schedule every night
don’t use alcohol to fall asleep (it’s a sedative, not a sleep inducer)
weed blocks REM sleep
I know you’re not drinking, but alcohol and marijuana affect REM sleep.
Steven Kovar: "A-Z gratitude" routine. Name something you're grateful for that starts with the letter A. Move on to B. Etc. Never gotten past K.”
Wailin Wong, Basecamp: “One small thing that's really helped me is getting a sleep mask (Alaska Bear brand). Temperature of room and limiting blue light exposure.”
New: Honeybadger. A web developer's secret weapon! Modern error management that gives you more than an email and a backtrace. They also have an amazing podcast: FounderQuest.
Patrick Campbell, from Price Intelligently, says there are three aspects of a pricing strategy:
Positioning: who are the right customers for your product? How will you target and attract them?
Packaging: what features are included in each tier? What value does each type of customer want from your product?
Pricing: putting a price on your tiers that reflects the value your customer receives.
Where did we get stuck? Jon and I started by looking at who had signed up for early access to Transistor:
Hobbyists – podcasting for fun, two people talking, no advertising.
Prosumers – side-project podcasting, may have a bit of income, want to go pro.
Solopreneurs – solo founders building smaller tech products.
Small tech teams – teams of 3-10 people building larger software products.
Bigger brands / enterprise companies.
This list brought up a question: how do we define our target customer? Is "podcast hosting and analytics for professionals" too broad?
Here's our homework for this week: we're going to let this simmer, we're going to talk to smart people about pricing, and we're going to come back to this next week.
How Ben and David bootstrapped the Acquired podcast
01:08:52
Fast Company called Acquired "the #1 tech podcast sensation." I've been a huge fan of the show for years. So, I was surprised when they contacted me and wanted to switch to Transistor for podcast hosting!
Since switching, they've had a breakout year. Their clips started showing up everywhere on my social media feed; they had chart-topping episodes on Nintendo, Nike, and Costco, and they interviewed the CEOs of NVIDIA, Uber, and Charlie Munger.
And this was the year that Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal (the co-hosts) both went full-time on the podcast. Podcasting is now their job.
With all of that activity, I thought Build your SaaS listeners would be interested in hearing my interview with David about their entire story:
How they got started, how they built momentum over time,
how they were able to double their audience every single year since 2015,
And how that momentum ended up Attracting an incredibly valuable audience that they've now monetized through sponsorships.
This interview has so much that podcasters, creators, and indie entrepreneurs will find super helpful and inspirational.
🔥 Key moments:
(0:00:00) – A breakout year for Acquired
(0:01:45) – What is the Acquired podcast about?
(0:02:40) – How the Acquired podcast got started (origin story)
(0:07:23) – How Ben and David's co-hosting relationship works
(0:09:00) – The 3 big goals that made them want to start Acquired
(0:11:38) – How did listeners respond to the first episodes?
(0:14:55) – The best reason to start a podcast
(0:15:30) – The secret to how Acquired attracts new listeners
(0:18:13) – How they got featured in Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, and Spotify
(0:24:18) – How they got their first podcast sponsors (and why it wasn't about making money)
(0:27:58) – Why they give their sponsors a white glove, 11-star experience
(0:34:13) – How to get more word-of-mouth referrals for your podcast
(0:37:00) – Acquired's unconventional approach to podcast ads
(0:41:54) – How the Acquired podcast's growth machine works
(0:48:05) – Why their NVIDIA podcast episode went viral
(0:50:48) – Why they switched from Libsyn to Transistor for podcast hosting
(0:57:18) – The rise of the "independent, boutique podcaster."
(1:02:27) – "The future of podcasting doesn't belong to Gimlet, NYT, NPR..."
(1:06:22) – David Rosenthal's advice to aspiring podcasters
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